OT:

Suspect in Pearl Slaying Killed in Pakistan

[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]

What a bunch of evil children.

BTW, Kos, I've been signed up at Kerry's campaign for some time.

What are you gonna do about it?

The Warning of Sideshow Bob!

moonbattery from many folks who dont read blogs.

my own dad said,

"if bush wins they will be starting up the concentration camps, they already have them where they have disappeared people and they probably put me in one"

stop the presses

retired jewish school teacher a danger to the nation

so i may have to vote for kerry to keep my dad out of a concentration camp.

i am in massachesetts so it matters litttle anyway

funny though.

Conspiracy to commit election fraud, open and shut. Has this been reported to the FEC?

Good god, they're melting down.
Rape fantasies? Kinky!

He must be on acid, I've never read any death threats or rape fantasies on LGF. But I have read things a lot like that on certain LLL sites.

They think of Mickey Kaus as a right wing blogger? What crack are they smoking?

fevered, rotten, cruel, superior, babbling, irate, vitriolic

Um, wow.

Markos Zuniga can dish it out. Someone get a shovel.

Just require that all Bush volunteers have donated at least $20 to the campaign... it'll help keep out the riifraff.

Darn it!! How come I never get included in these rape fantasies you guys are having? I miss out on all the fun. Look, is there a special day of the week or time when all this goes down? Quit holding out on me, people!

Mickey Kaus sometimes lets slip an utterance pointing out the little hypocrises of the left...

He slips off the plantation.

"Racial slurs, death threats and rape fantasies, oh my!"

LOL
Thinking of the look on Judy Garland's face during the "Lions and tigers and bears, Oh my" scene in The Wizard of Oz.

Nice.

I can certainly see why someone would want to join this bunch.

:-(

Losers.

Rape fantasies? I imagine if anyone started showing up with their rape fantasies on LGF they'd get their asses kicked. Must be projection.

#4 iceman "stop the presses.
retired jewish school teacher a danger to the nation"
LOL

Your father must not be well-acquainted with the left-wing if he thinks they would make him safe.

Sort of similar. I was listening once to this -type talking about how he was involved in different groups and how he was concerned the government would be coming for him now with the Patriot Act, blah, blah, blah. Someone said "no one gives a damn what you do." No one could stop laughing.

According to Allah, the NYT mentioned Kos' infamous slur against the American security guards who were lynched. That's a good thing, even if Kos tries to delude the NY Times into believing that those are words he's proud of - and even though he's so proud of them that he expunged them from his site. (snicker)

That they didn't mention LGF or any other blog to the right of the Democratic Underground, is probably another good thing. I don't believe the NYT could ever be fair or objective about opinions to the right of their own. After all, this is the newspaper that endorsed Mondale over Reagan in the '84 election.

Rape fantasy for Kos:

Bin Laden pounding your sorry a**. "How does that feel my goat?"

That's "protestor-types"

...the fevered, rotten, cruel, superior, babbling, irate, vitriolic and oversimplifying left-wing blogs..."

I would add a few more adjectives but it's a fairly acurate description.

and wasn't it the YM blogsite where they were talking about how "cool" it would be if the President were assassinated?
But wehave death threats???

Geheimbundler? Geheim=secret. Bund? Bundler?

Ok,there was a rape fantasy on a FNDT - I think it was Portia - I'll go look

Oh,yeah,the knuckleheads are in full wahcko mode.This from Craigs List in SF

Special Operations Cloud Seeding for Florida Part 2
Reply to: anon-43692451@craigslist.org
Date: 2004-09-26, 6:42PM PDT

[Link: www.willthomas.net...]

Bush attempts to create a enviroment where it is easyer to fix the election in 2004 in his favor by inducing hurricanes by cloud seeding to hit states like florida.

They are insane!!!

I'm willing to bet that the thorn in the kossack's side is this:

He's a small guy with short brown hair who could pass for 15.

Short man syndrome, just like....(drum roll, please)

HITLER!

Bwahahahaha!

#25--

Yet another lame attempt to look Kennedyesque. The Kennedys were famous for touch football games. One with a water bottle on a ski slope led to a family member ending up dead not too many years back.

I'm stunned that, after his condescending "Screw them" snit, anyone would take this little twerp seriously.

What a dick.

OT

As #13 fxb pulled up, suspect in the Pearl "beheading" has been killed:
[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]

Here we find the fabled MODERATE MOSLIM,
"We pray to God Almighty to accept my brother's sacrifice," Mohammed Javed, Farooqi's elder brother, told the AP by phone from the village.
Javed said the government had not informed them about Farooqi's death, and he demanded that the body be returned to allow its burial according to Islamic ritual.

Mohammed Javed is a moderate moslim.
Kinko's is working OT to make icons of the "sacrificed" for all moderate moslims to revere.

Has this been posted before..if it has excuse the repeat

[Link: members.cox.net...]

remember the heros

Poll Added - I’m Volunteering For Bush For Last 72 Hours - You Should Too

Obviously, they don't believe they can win fairly and honestly --so even in the end rather than getting out a positive message about their own candidate they would choose to sabotage.

That seems to be the whole game for them. To work against someone NOT FOR someone.

That's the kind of person Kerry apparently attracys. Someone who will spend 72 hours working AGAINST a candidate rather than dedicate that 72 hours working passionately FOR him!

None of this should surprise any of us these days. I mean, the charming folks at DU are STILL today trying to prove that the C BS TANG docs are REAL! These people are certifiable and will only get worse as Nov 2 approaches...

#24 grayp

Geheimbundler-I think this guy is trying to say something like "secret federation" or "secret federal state".

A few days ago Chirac called for the need for a "global tax". I tried to find you to tell you about it, but I kept missing you.

Charles, you're getting top heading and a lbasket full of seething at the State of the Art blog

DOH! wrong link!

sorry - try this

#11 Dar ul Harb 9/26/2004 07:11PM PST

Just require that all Bush volunteers have donated at least $20 to the campaign... it'll help keep out the riifraff.

Better idea: make sure they've had a shave, a shower, and no recent hallucinations. That will keep 'em out.

I feel kinda helpless in an absolute RED state... wish i could help out in a battleground or BLUE state

rayra

pictures of John Kerry doing youthful athletic things will continue to appear in place of him releasing his medical records

i sincerely doubt that his medical records, his full military records or Tereza's tax records will be released before the election.

so don't hold you breath

cloud seeding to favor republicans is not a sure thing. the rovian theory of the fabricated memos on bush favoring the republicans by discrediting rather and the dems also fails the test as being to unstable to predict.

don't forget, just as the people who continue to believe in the leader who told them that end of the world was coming after they give up all there stuff, moonbattery will continue after the election, that is one thing you can count on.

cordy that's ok, I caught it on EUROSOC and other sites.

The rape fantasy I'm looking for was pure satire and funny as hell.........for this guy to portray it as anything else betrays nothing less that a serious deficiency in the humor department. There was FNDT that I missed back in Feb. that LGF Watch Watch linked to that I've now got bookmarked.

evarise is blackmailed. Like forever.

Hey, would the Brad Nickel who posts that he plans to help commit election fraud happen to be the same Brad Nickel who is the CEO of ClickBrain.com, a left-wing web design company that proudly bears on its website the logo of the Greater Miami Chamber of Commerce?

And would the Greater Miami Chamber of Commerce, as well as (perhaps) some of ClickBrain.com's clients, want to be associated with same Brad Nickel if they knew about Mr. Nickel's election day plans?

Google sure is interesting....

Well, hurricane Jeane and worry for my friend not withstanding, today has been a good day in the war on terrorism.

One of Daniel Pearl's murders gets what he deserves.

Israel makes yet another Hamasnick murdering maniac a roasty toasty veggie mash.

According to one reprot all the terrorists are worrying about their own hides and looking over their shoulders a whole lot.

And my Florida friend I was most worried about has just contacted me to let me know he's safe and well.

OT

I just read (Drudge) that TuhRaySuh defended her husbands voting record, about voting for the war and against the $87bil to fund it by saying that he saw the $87bil as a blank check and he wasn't willing to hand over a blank check. Do they not know what a blank check means? It's $87billion... the amount is defined. It's right there in big fat letters, it's how you're referencing it. That's not a blank check. It's not $87billion+whatever.

And her fans ate it up!

rising tide

yes i know your frustration

i am in mass, kerry country, and must watch from the sidelines as the real battle goes on in other states

like florida where my dad just got an absentee ballot because he does not trust the electronic voting machines.

the electoral college my friend, that is where the trouble lies

without it, horse race city, with it, very complicated.

screw up their organizing for GOTV

Idiot --the last 72 hours are usually a phone bank. A simple script --Identifying as the Bush Campaign, reminding people to vote.

Lots of people in the room and usually -- I can't say every where --the lists are of REPUBLICAN voters simply reminding them TO vote. No pressure whatsoever just to remind.

If he thinks it is more effective to "screw up" the GOTV than to spend his last 72 hours doing something productive for his OWN candidate --he is just the kind of supporter that is contributing to Kerry's loss.

Racial slurs, death threats and rape fantasies???..... must there be some other littlegreenfootballs.com that I don't know about or this guy is surely delusional!
All's fair in love and war, or is it?..... So where do I sign up for a left-wing idiocy's last 72 hour push? Could Jimmy Carter need some help in trying for another Nobel?

Nancy, well his company must not have much business if he has the time for such shenanigans.

Oh, I guess I should say something about Daily Kos, being as that is the topic. OTOH why bother? I've tried SETIing that way but its obvious from the signal to noise ratio that there's no intelligent life over there.

According to reports, Khalil got into the car, received a call on his cell phone, started the engine, and that is when the car exploded.

Police at the scene of the explosion were seen retrieving pieces of Khalil's body.

From the JP. Just the way those pricks should go.

"We have allowed hundreds of thousands of Zionists to travel and move in capitals around the world in order not to be the party that shifts the struggle overseas. But the Zionist enemy has done so and should bear the consequences of its actions," said the statement, a copy of which was faxed to the pan-Arab news channel Al-Jazeera, which broadcast the message.

But another Hamas spokesman, Osama Hamdan, denied the Al-Jazeera report, saying Hamas would not change its strategy of striking at Israeli targets only within Israel and the Palestinian territories. "Our policy was and remains to conduct our struggle inside the Zionist entity," Hamdan said, speaking from Beirut.

Experts believe the retraction came about because Hamas does not want to be seen as another al-Qaida.

Translation- PLEASE don't kill me too!!! I'm so afraid!!!

OT:
Anyone see what the other Mass. Senator said?

Kennedy says Bush makes U.S. more vulnerable to nuclear attack

One word for ya Teddy, Gadafi.

Bush Doctrine Success

grayp, LOL! That would be true...if I had any shame at all ;-)

The Kosuckers might be very nice people if they had a brain between them.

Until they adopt logic as a basis of discourse they will remain thrashing madly around in their sewer of delusion.

I hope we have rabies shots on hand for Nov 02 as there will be plenty of demented moonbats going nuts when their candidate receives the judgment of the masses.

OT: Educated Europeans

[Link: bloghd.blogspot.com...]

Friday, September 24, 2004
Educated Europeans
An Israeli woman applied for a job at Gisela Graham Limited., a London company which designs Christmas decorations. Earlier this month, she received the following rejection letter:

Thank you for your CV, but in you're not we're looking for. The ideal person for us will be first an foremost an illustrator, as our advertisement specified - working with a pen and brush - with an interest in modelmaking, whereas your own forte is interior design and CAD...
Speaking personally however may I suggest that for European consumption you would be wise to omit details of your national service, which you describe with such evident and ingenuous pride?
The natural reaction of most educated Europeans to the information you provide is likely to be "so it was she who guided those guinships to targetted assasinations and the murder of women and children with indiscriminate bombing and strafing of refugee camps (refugee camps!!!! 50 years after your compatriots drove them from their homes - and you have done nothing for them ever since.)!". Most educated Europeans - and as a matter of fact a large proprtion of educated Americans too - now view 'Israel' as a brutal undemocratic (where are the votes for the indigenous inhabitants whom you have helotised?) colonial state, run by criminals who defy all international law and natural justice. And a sizeable proportion doubts the 'right' of Israel to exist.
This has nothing to do with anti-semitism. nor is it racism - that is the kind of disgusting attitude which one might say is inherent in the idea of the state of Israel, and one might say among a large section of believing Jews elsewhere, who regard the rest of us as inferior and unclean - and not chosen by God. What could be more racist than that? And what happens to those of your race who dare to speak out against the wickedness that your fanatacsim inevitably leads to? they are murdered or have acid thrown in their faces like Yael Dayan

just to put you in the picture

Piers Croke
Gisela Graham Limited.

Here is the web address of Gisela Graham Limited. Perhaps you might want to write them and let them know what you think of Piers Croke and his antisemitic diatribe.
[Link: www.giselagraham.co.uk...]

Speaking of dirty tricks --

In response to the Power Line article at
[Link: powerlineblog.com...]

If you put "New Voter Project" into Google, a
pattern becomes evident. There are groups all
over the US, and they are putting in voter registration
forms in large bundles at the last minute -- sometimes
after a delay of weeks -- and overloading the registration
clerks. Some of these forms are incomplete.

They are also co-operating with the Democrats in legal
cases opposing any form of identity checking at the polling
place. There are also references to NVP activists filling
out forms on the behalf of students.

All this turned up in 20 minutes' worth of Googling.

As an Australian, I can't vote in US elections but I
have a deep interest in the outcome of the 2004 contest.
I hope some Americans might choose to look into this.

As a "recovering" liberal myself, I get an extra-special kick out of the paranoid lunacy of the left. After all, it's a place where I used to dwell. The cure is soooo simple. Just look at ONE issue - ANY issue - objectively, just ONCE, and BAM! You're cured!

Can't stop laughing.

Oh, broke fast withe a group of 10 expats. All are staunch democrats. 2/10 ARE voting Bush. 2/10 can't stand Kerry but can't bring hemselves to vote for Bush so they don't know what they are going to do. The other six looked ill discussing the topic and wouldn't admit who they were voting for.

If that is an accurate sample, Kerry is in the toilet.

BTW, I spend the weekend in Hot Springs, Arkansas. I saw 0 BushCheney stickers and about 35+ KerryEdwards, including one Christians for Kerry.

When my girlfriends and I were approached by desperate, bad-toothed men at Lucky's bar Saturday night, we simply said, "Voting for Bush"...

It's like kryptonite.

Bwahahahaaaa!

Can't say I've ever see rape fantasies or racial slurs here, but death fantasies are a regular feature. How many times have I read "nuke Mecca" or words to that effect?

What's interesting here is that for people on the left, making negative generalizations about other groups is one of the biggest sins you can commit. Never mind whether those generalizations actually have any merit.

In this case, what it boils down to is whether you think Islam as a religion is at all redeemable.

If I understand the predominant view here, it's that Islam is the enemy. Not a minority of violent Muslims, but the whole edifice of Islam itself - it's ideology, its traditions, its culture etc. are all arrayed against the interests of Western civilization. To any self-respecting leftist, the idea that you could consider an entire civilization an enemy is so retrograde that it's totally inconceivable.

My personal impression is that the left has actually come a long way from where it was a few years ago towards understanding the threat. Despite the caricatures, your average left-leaning person is NOT a kumbaya-singing "can't we all just get along?" utopian. Most of the criticism of the Iraq war on the left (as opposed to the radical fringe) is that it was a distraction from the war we should be fighting against Osama et al. That's a long way from your standard Berkeley radical who thinks that the US military should be disbanded.

Sorry if this got posted:

DEVELOPING: CBS PLANS FOR SPRING RATHER RETIREMENT

From Drudge.

BPP,

What's interesting here is that for people on the left, making negative generalizations about other groups is one of the biggest sins you can commit. Never mind whether those generalizations actually have any merit.

I. Don't. Care.

Just maybe the moonbats are worried that blogs like LGF bring the news we don't normally hear to the forefront - the kind of unsettling news the LLL has ignored... or covered up. I offer Rathergate as evidence. That was certainly a turd in their soup de jour.

Blogs that share information scare them into complete and utter hysteria. All they cling to is the one thing they have left: an opinion.

#11 Dar ul Harb 9/26/2004 07:11PM PST

LMAO !

You know, there were all those protestors in NYC when the Republican convention was going on and only one guy missed work.

They're all holding out for that management position!

# 57 wrote, " To any self-respecting leftist, the idea that you could consider an entire civilization an enemy is so retrograde that it's totally inconceivable."

Then why do so many self-respecting leftist have no trouble calling for the destrction of Israel? Oh wait, silly me...Jews can't be a civilization.

#59

No, it's I don't C.A.I.R.

God, that was nauseating, EvilPundit.

BPP,

..."it's ideology, its traditions, its culture etc. are all arrayed against the interests of Western civilization. To any self-respecting leftist, the idea that you could consider an entire civilization an enemy is so retrograde that it's totally inconceivable..."

You just described the left's feelings toward traditional Christianity perfectly.

#52 MJ

There was an Israeli student who applied to Oxford but was rejected because of his nationality .
There was also the case of two Israeli academics getting kicked of a journal because they were Israeli.

It seems pretty apparent to me that this Piers Croke is not *just* basing it on Israeli-ness but on Jewishness too, as he makes comments about the chosenness bit.

And "educated Europeans" are generally some of the stupidest people on earth.

lazytart, LOL! What a perfect rejoinder to BPP's blather. Keep carrying water for them, BPP.

#57 BPP,

So it was a minority of violent Nazis that were the problem in WWII? Wake up and smell the cordite, holmes.

You just described the left's feelings toward traditional Christianity perfectly.

Feel the burrrn.

I'm confused. #57 (BPP) says that

What's interesting here is that for people on the left, making negative generalizations about other groups is one of the biggest sins you can commit. Never mind whether those generalizations actually have any merit.

But then #52 (MJ) sends word of a European executive who denies an Israeli a job saying that

Most educated Europeans - and as a matter of fact a large proprtion of educated Americans too - now view 'Israel' as a brutal undemocratic (where are the votes for the indigenous inhabitants whom you have helotised?) colonial state, run by criminals who defy all international law and natural justice.

Are "most educated Europeans" not "people on the left"?

Very confusing.

#53 Evil Pundit
Here's one.
Voter Registration Swells In Major Ohio Counties

MJ (#52)

I saw that earlier, Kragar posted it. How disgusting! I sent them an e-mail.

According to the London Jewish Chronicle , the author claimed the remarks were out of character and caused by family stress.

Yeah, I'm buying that. Assholes.

Btw, sorry to repeat an earlier post, but the fellow (Brad Nickel) who posted to Kos that he was going undercover as a Bush supporter to try to skew the vote, apparently runs a web design company that proudly bears the seal of the Greater Miami Chamber of Commerce. Maybe he should be "outed."

#57 bpp

but the whole edifice of Islam itself

F**k Islamic chauvinism. Islam is a GOD DAMNED religon.

#25 Allegedly the DNC gave some feedback that windsurfing and cycling and snowboarding in Aspen, Nantucket, Ketchum, etc. in top-of-the-line Patagonia wear does not resonate with the "common joe". They strongly suggested some Kennedy-esque touch football. Apparently, the tint and Botox were suggestions courtesy of Terry Kerry!

Kaus and Andrew right wing? Kidding right?

#52:
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

Letter from same dude.

MJ

That blog can't confirm if Piers Croke was kicked to the curb and the Jewish Chronicle has some registration scheme. Can you please keep us/me posted. email provided.
#57 BPP

If I understand the predominant view here, it's that Islam is the enemy. Not a minority of violent Muslims, but the whole edifice of Islam itself - it's ideology, its traditions, its culture etc. are all arrayed against the interests of Western civilization

To me it is irredeemable. If, for nothing else, the role is assigns to women. I got into a fight with a poster here, a truly good person, married to a 'cultural Muslim' that she loves and respects and who evidently returns the feelings. To me, that's like being married to a member of the KKK who just likes the fashion statement of the robes and hood thing.

No one, absolutely no one, would expect a black to tolerate a 'cultural KKK' member. I'm sorry for her and I hope I didn't hurt her (given the way she fought back, she's a pretty tough cookie, so that's good) - but the fact remains, there is no good Islam just as there is no good KKK.

JohnAnnArbor, I wonder if that letter was out of character and caused by family stress too. He reads al-Guardian, what can one expect?

#64, #53 --

I'm concerned, but I don't think it's my place as a foreign citizen to get involved -- beyond alerting people that my quick Google search raised some flags.

In fact, we have our own election in Australia and it's time I got more involved in that. But ours is so boring compared to yours this year. :-)

#57 BPP

People here aren't unanimous that 100% of Islam is irredemable.

But the evidence points to things being worse not better.

While Daniel Pipes estimates that 10% of Muslims support the "militant" Islamists, polls in parts of the Muslim world paint a much bleaker picture.

I remember a poll by the Pew Trust over a year after 9/11, when everyone knew that Bin Laudin had taken credit for the atrocity.

The question was "do you think Osama should set your country's foriegn policy" - ie should you follow Bin Ladin.

In Pakistan, that got > 80 percent yes, in Egypt I think it was >60 percent, in Turky >40 percent (and in some countries the government wouldn't allow that question). But in the Middle east, maybe 50 percent wanted to follow Bin Ladin.

I remember a liberal Muslim who made a speech where he estimated that 50 percent of Muslims are Islamists!!

50 percent!

As for the Nuke Mecca stuff, you know when the war against the Islamists come to a head, that might be a viable tactic... Remember when you are at war, planning to kill and demoralize the enemy is not racism, it's necessary.

#57 BPP

Maybe we just know different leftists. I've gotten more cynical on their views. The ones I know didn't much like going into Afghanistan either and the arguments against Iraq I heard were mainly that it would harm Iraqis (which is a completely valid thing to consider), not that it would distract from the war on terrorism, which many found to be made up or some sort of racist, imperialist adventure.

And I think there are more and more who openly dislike Israel without even knowing basic facts--oh, you mean there are Palestinian citizens of Israel? Oh, Palestinians can practice polygamy? etc.

Then there are the radicals who are nuts. They sometimes know a bit more basic facts but just don't care because they want something to rant about.

Yo.#74,it is not a real religion,it is a fascist movement in religious clothing.You have fallen for their marketing program.Here's a clue:they worship death.

#77 grayp,

Think African-American woman married to a member of the KKK who just likes the fashion statement of the robes and hood thing.

It's more accurate.

EvilPundit, I was actually talking to MJ when I said "that was nauseating", it was the Croke guy that nauseated me and not the election stuff.

# 76
JohnAnnArbor, thanks for posting that letter. It gives lie to the excuse that Piers Croke was just having a difficult family situation when he replied using classical antisemitic images in responding to the Israeli job applicant. He obviously used antisemitic imagery because he is, quite simply, an antisemite. No doubt he is one of the leaders trying to establish the Church of England's boycott of all things Jewish...oh, I mean Israeli. See [Link: www.petitiononline.com...]

Compared to the gulag-loving, cultural revolution endorsing, re-education camp fantasies of the Kos crowd, this place just isn't that shocking. I hate to break it to you. :)

#83 Iron Fist

It's more accurate.

As usual, yer right.

They do realize that deliberately interfering with an election is a crime, don't they?

The do realize that interfering with an election is a violation of the most basic principles at the foundation of the United States of America as embodied in the Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and over two centuries of democratic tradition, don't they?

They do realize that interfering with an election is a violation of the UN "Covenant on Civil and Political Rights", don't they?

Or do they realize and not care? What do they care about anyway?

Evariste, thanks for clarifying that. I didn't mean to offend anyone and was a bit worried.

J.D.

Dennis Lieberman, chairman of the Democratic Party in Montgomery County, says surveys show that the majority of new voters appear to be Democrats.

Why isn't that a surprise? Sounds like a page out of the old Chicago Machine Democrat book.

#73--

Go for it. Perhaps warn the Republicans in the area around where the dude lives to look out for him "volunteering."

#77 grayp,

Ah, hell, you were, more or less. I missed your last paragraph.

Sorry, hon. I've got a lot (a whole lot, way more than I need or can deal with lot) on my mind.

[Hugs]

This is more or less on topic:

Bush will use dirty tricks to win the election?

That's funny, I thought it was the Democrats who were notorious for cheating in elections.

88 (Mr. Goodfellow):
See my post #41.

59 lazytart 9/26/2004 07:58PM PST

What I don't understand is why an older generation of liberals was perfectly happy to shame southerners for their bigotry - for slavery and then for Jim Crow laws. No one on the left would cringe if you said "Southerners are haters," but the current generation would sooner kill all of the Jews in the world themselves than call Muslims on being haters or try to do anything about it!

Franky I have to say that they only real liberals left in the country must be Republicans because I don't see a single one on the left! And we have no hope whatsoever if we have no one liberal enough to oppose hatred and to do so militantly.

For a lefty (and I'm one) what I just wrote seems to turn things on their heads, but reality is that the actual beliefs of people in Americas different camps have been slipping over the years. And lefties no longer deserve the angel wings they grant themselves. You aren't a good person just because you assume you are, you have to do things that are actually good in the real world. Supporting, Saddam, for instance, didn't get anyone their wings no matter how pious and holy they felt while marching.

More on Piers Croke

Then, I understand, Pearl Moonsamy, General Manager at Gisela Graham, issues a statement saying the firm is commited to equality of opportunity, and that Piers Croke has been suspended for improper use of Company communications. I have called Pearl three times this morning, but she hasn't yet had a chance to return my call.

So that sounds right and just. I called up again just now, and asked to speak to Piers and he's still there. Of course, I'm not in full possession of the facts; it's possible matters have moved on since I last got email on this, and I've not been able to verify the status with Pearl.

But through the joy of the internet, here's what I do know about Piers: he likes writing reviews on Amazon, (and thinks that deformity and sacrifice are what captures a child's imagination), that he likes writing letters (here's one to the Guardian, where he appears, somewhat bizarrely, to be likening the American justice system to sharia law), and he (or another Piers Croke, perhaps) is abig TS Elliot fan, and contributed to his 70th birthday symposium. I also know where he lives, but then so does everyone with access to 192.com.

And waddayaknow, I found his e-mail address.

OT
Pittsburgh 13
Miami 3

#89 EvilPundit

I didn't mean to offend anyone and was a bit worried.

Well, you did not offend anyone. We get it, so not to worry.

But one of the best reasons to come to this site is to offend the offensive.

Grow a lizard skin, sweetie. We don't molt.

Anyway who's been posting rape fantacies about Oliver Willis and co.? Inquiring minds want to know!

Lazytart, nice job in Hot Springs. In case you didn't know, that's where Clinton grew up. (Forget the 'man from Hope' business, he GREW UP around Hot Springs).

The political leanings of Arkansas as far as Republican/Democrat go....

Republicans dominate in the Northwest quadrant (the Ozarks)

The Delta region, otoh, is about as Democratic as you can get outside of California. (Along the Mississippi and Arkansas rivers)

The culture in general is more traditional conservative, meaning that Democrats are the party of choice by long-standing tradition, but that moral values tend to favor Republicans.

Out of about 41 governors in Arkansas, 6 have been Republican- 3 of those during the Reconstruction era.

Only one Republican was ever elected as a Senator from Arkansas, and that was by 51% back in 1996. He lost, 55-45 the next time around.

This year, Arkansas is protrated as "leaning Bush" .... Real Clear Politics says that Bush MUST carry Arkansas to win. (Six electroral votes.) Anyone looking to campaign in a swing that, that's as good as any, right?

Way OT but too good to pass up

Here is Mr. Wobegon Garrison Keillor's take on the Republican Party as found on Michael Moore website

michaelmoore.com

The party of Lincoln and Liberty was transmogrified into the party of hairy-backed swamp developers and corporate shills, faith-based economists, fundamentalist bullies with Bibles, Christians of convenience, freelance racists, misanthropic frat boys, shrieking midgets of AM radio, tax cheats, nihilists in golf pants, brownshirts in pinstripes, sweatshop tycoons, hacks, fakirs, aggressive dorks, Lamborghini libertarians, people who believe Neil Armstrong’s moonwalk was filmed in Roswell, New Mexico, little honkers out to diminish the rest of us, Newt’s evil spawn and their Etch-A-Sketch president, a dull and rigid man suspicious of the free flow of information and of secular institutions, whose philosophy is a jumble of badly sutured body parts trying to walk. Republicans: The No.1 reason the rest of the world thinks we’re deaf, dumb and dangerous.

I think that i am somwhere between a nihilist in golf pants and a Lamborghini libertarian. How bout ya'll?

...listening to Drudge...

What size and shape should that table lectern be Senator?

Also the "courage to take both sides" montage was HILARIOUS!

BPP, You are very uninformed about islam.

Spend some time reading the sermons that come out of Makka and islams other holiest places.

Then you will see that "nuke mecca" is not a "death fantasy". It is a justice fantasy.

If you believe the extremists are a tiny minority, you are apparently unaware of almost every poll taken in ME countries concerning support for the actions of terrorists. What you'll find is the majority of ME muslims support terrorism, unless it is used against other muslims.

I see in your posts something I see in all of my uninformed friends and relatives. You want to compare the muslims in the world to the people of other faiths in your life. "Surely the average muslim is no different than the average Christian", I see behind your words.

You need to study islam before you, A. Find fault with the words of those who have studied and do understand it. B. Try to speak as an authority on the reality of it.

Also the "courage to take both sides" montage was HILARIOUS!

here's the montage drudge was playing.

i hope that web site has a powerful server... they're in for a lot of hits....

#97 z'babe
Well, for all the moral posturing of Croke, (Piers? That's where I tie up boats), he/she/it certainly did not hesitate to take some out on the job applicant on the basis of the applicant being a Jew.

Ah. I get it. Revenge is not ok unless it's inflicted upon Jews. No one else deserves it. Even if it is "out of fashion" for the last 60 years.

Iron Fist ((((hugs back dude))))))))))

102 DocDublU 9/26/2004 08:27PM PST

Keillor isn't an idiot. I have a suspicion that if he was willing to turn his satiric eye on the democrats he could be equally scathing... But apparently he's decided which side he wants to take this election.

#88 Robin Goodfellow - yes they do, and no they don't care.

What do they care about? Their precious widdle feelings.

grayp, and can't you just hear him, the pompous tool, going on about how "educated Europeans" feel about Israel. Bastard. What a disgrace.

#102 DocDublU
I used to listen to Prarie Home Companion all the time. Then, some years ago, I saw Keillor on Larry King. That man had eyes that were so disturbing if he had sat next to me on the Metro, I would have moved.

I never listened to him again.

#97 zulubaby,

That blog you posted is great! This letter by one Ben Cohen to Piers Croke is super. I'm going to post it here too. Thanks for finding Piers email address. I'll be sure to write him as well:

Piers

Like many other people, I've seen the email which you sent to
a prospective Israeli applicant. And if you think you can shoot off emails like that without getting an enraged response, you'd better think again, mate.

I'm not going to dignify your ignorant, semi-literate, Jew-hating screed by taking on your argument(by the way, your text was replete with grammatical errors and spelling mistakes, which leads me to think that you're a moron, as well as a racist). What am I going to do - like many others, I imagine - is clog up your in-box with constant reminders of what a scumbag you are, Piers. Do you really think that anyone is going to go over the finer points of Jewish history and philosophy with you?

Do you actually have the cheek to consider yourself educated? You're a ghastly little anti-Semitic spiv; in another context and another time, you'd be lacing up your jackboots and dragging Jewish children off to the gas chambers.

But, Piers, we now live in this context and this time. I imagine that our racial discrimination laws will rapidly put an end to your sparkling career.

If you want to reply to me, go ahead. I'll even meet you if you want. But like most Jew-haters, you're probably too much of a coward.

Yours (very) sincerely

Ben

#110 grayp

I would not be surprised if Mr. Keillor's eyes are attached to giant springs and bouncing wildly to and fro at the moment. What chemicals are in the water of Lake Wobegon, anyway?

Moore / Keillor in 2008!

#109 z'babe

Talk about fantasies. I have one. The LGF sisters in our leathers and pearls striding down the street where Finsbury mosque is located.

Iron Fist, sgt tom, 'Nam Grunt, reaganite, et. al., stand around feeling sorry for and laughing at all our victims.

#113--

I hope I'm in "et. al."

Below sent to the Miami-Dade County GOP (on one of those e-mail forms that will probably never get read....)

VOTER FRAUD ALERT

A MIAMI-BASED OPPONENT OF BUSH PLANS TO VOLUNTEER AS A BUSH SUPPORTER IN ORDER TO INFLUENCE THE ELECTION AND HAS CALLED FOR OTHERS TO DO THE SAME.

The following was posted on the left-wing website Daily Kos:
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]
"Poll Added - I'm Volunteering For Bush For Last 72 Hours - You Should Too
by bradnickel
Sat Sep 25th, 2004 at 23:02:06 GMT

I like to keep up with the enemy and i am on their mailing list. Got an email asking me to help in the last 72 hours. I am going to sign up to help. We should get as many of us as possible to sign up to help in the last 72 hours. May or may not make a difference, but could really screw up their organizing for GOTV if enough of us do the same thing.
Mine was sent for Florida. Here's the link:
Volunteer in FL
http:/www.georgewbush.com/72Hour/Default.aspx?stat e=FL"

Elsewhere on the same site, Brad Nickel notes that he is a Miami resident and Democratic activist:
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

He also appears to be the CEO of a web design company that proudly bears the seal of the Greater Miami Chamber of Commerce: [Link: www.clickbrain.com...]

Please let me know that something is being done about this.

62 MJ

Then why do so many self-respecting leftist have no trouble calling for the destrction of Israel?

It's a good point, and one that needs to be emphasized. There seems to be an "Israel exception" to a lot of the ways we might think about the ideological divide.

Look, obviously I'm not going to successfully come up with some grand unified theory here. My point was that the left/right divide over how to approach the current situation could largely be explained by how comfortable each side is in defining this as a war of civilizations.

77 grayp

I got into a fight with a poster here, a truly good person, married to a 'cultural Muslim' that she loves and respects and who evidently returns the feelings. To me, that's like being married to a member of the KKK who just likes the fashion statement of the robes and hood thing.

I have to say I just find that ridiculous. The KKK is an organization whose very purpose is to express hatred of blacks. Islam's views of women are just one aspect of a complex set of religious beliefs, one that can be discarded if the believer so chooses. Need I remind you that both Roman Catholicism and Orthodox Judaism, among many others, advocate unequal treatment of women in religious life and that that carries over to non-religious parts of their respective cultures? The phenomenon of the "cafeteria Catholic" is well known. Why should it be not possible for there to be "cafeteria Muslims?"

#102 DocDublU -

Saturday is Garrison Keillor day at my local Public Radio station - hour after hour of - hughnn - Gaaaaarrrison ... Keilllllorrrrr.

I had to spend a Saturday on the road recently and I listened to hour after mind-numbing hour of Gaaaaarrrison ... Keilllllorrrrr droning on and on and onnnnn.

Eventually I got really paranoid, and came to believe that I was being followed by low-flying aircraft.

This taught me something - left-heads live that hell every day of their lives, and if we only appreciated that we would understand them better.

MJ, yeah, whoever Ben Cohen is, he's all over it. I sent an e-mail to Piers the Prat already.

Piers Croke Update

I've had lots of mail from people who were upset that Piers Croke appeared to still be in his job. Just to fill the gap - the story was report in Friday's JC (although you have to be a subscriber to read it, sadly).

The gist of the story is that he gave a "fullsome apology" - digression; an English lecturer friend told me that fullsome used to mean false - and has been reinstated, but no longer has responsibility for personnel or press relations. Which, frankly, can only be a good thing. There was an anonymous mention of Ben's letter, and the response he got says Piers had been suspended.

I still haven't heard back from Pearl, the General Manager, but I'm sure I'll be the first person on her callback list Monday morning. Right.

#117

ok, one last thought on Garrison Keillor, i promise.

Two words are suspiciously missing from his rant:

JOHN KERRY.

Islam's views of women are just one aspect of a complex set of religious beliefs, one that can be discarded if the believer so chooses.

Are you serious?

I hardly think keeping women out of the pulpit, etc. is comparable to stoning them, cutting their clitorises, or beheading them.

Idiot.

#113 grayp,

Why would I feel sorry for them? They made their choice. Time to live or die by it.

#116 BPP

Need I remind you that both Roman Catholicism and Orthodox Judaism, among many others, advocate unequal treatment of women in religious life and that that carries over to non-religious parts of their respective cultures?

Listen. to. me. carefully.

We aren't talking unequal. We are talking honor killings. We are talking religiously sanctioned domestic abuse. We aren't talking cultural/political equality. We are talking life and death.

And I challenge your convenient moral equivalency, if you had to give a daughter to either Orthodox Judaism, Roman Catholocism or Islam, which would it be?

You remind me of nothing so much sa complete moral vacuity.

BPP

I'm curious--what is your career, if you don't mind me asking?

#121 Iron Fist

Why would I feel sorry for them?

You wouldn't. You'd be one of the ones laughing.

We know how the LLL love to cheat. They know it's the only way they can win. For instance Michael Moore....he's registered in two states! In case you haven't seen this yet...

[Link: www.thesmokinggun.com...]

#28 JohnAnnArbor

One with a water bottle on a ski slope led to a family member ending up dead not too many years back.

I remember that. Didn't Sonny Bono die the same way about a week later?

My niece, before she became an el cubo, was upset by Bono's death. Her brother asked her why she wasn't upset over the Kennedy death.

She said, "He's a Kennedy. People expect that."

#124 grayp,

It'd be hard to make me laugh right now. Maybe if you took Kos, and hand-cuffed his right hand to his left ankle, doused him in gasoline, and set him on fire...

I'd probably laugh at that :-P

(I'm off to bed Guys and Dolls. I'm depressed, morbid, and I smell like Infamy. There’s a joke there for those who can figure it out :-)

# 4 iceman

The one who loves the Jews is George W. Bush. The real ones to fear are the ones who lie.

They are what they accuse others of

#116, BPP. "Cafeteria Muslim" You might find one if no other Muslims are in the "cafeteria" In a Western City without a mosque you may find an occaisional "Cafeteria Muslim" In a city with a mosque they are less likely and in the Middle East the only thing they will find in the "cafeteria" is their last meal. Muslims are building outposts in the West, not "cafeterias".

#53 EvilPundit

Speaking of dirty tricks --

In response to the Power Line article at
[Link: powerlineblog......]

If you put "New Voter Project" into Google, a
pattern becomes evident. There are groups all
over the US, and they are putting in voter registration
forms in large bundles at the last minute -- sometimes
after a delay of weeks -- and overloading the registration
clerks. Some of these forms are incomplete.
[...]

Thanks for the tip. I looked at their website (newvoterproject.org) to try to see who was funding them. Answer, "State PIRGs" (Public Interest Research Groups) and The George Washington Grad. School of Political Management.

"State PIRGs" are far left Nader front groups which have been around since the 60's or 70's on college campuses. Most of their funding comes from various left leaning foundations and from college fees! (Little article on PIRGs, FoxNews sourced)

The George Washington Graduate School of Political Management seems innocuous enough, right?

How does GSPM differ from political science or public policy?
The school's curriculum differs from political science in its emphasis upon both analytical approaches and practical applications of political techniques, rather than theory building. Schools of public policy or public administration focus upon decision making internal to the machinery of government, notably executive branch agencies. In contrast, students of political management concentrate upon the political processes that influence those agencies from outside the formal apparatus of government, through such activities as lobbying or elections.

Doesn't sound like election rigging to me. (wink) Their "donor spotlight" brags

Prior to starting her own business Kristin was Finance Director for a little known candidate who we now refer to as Lt. Governor Cruz Bustamante.

The Cruz Bustamante? Wow!

Pathetic worms.

# 116 BPP wrote, "It's a good point, and one that needs to be emphasized. There seems to be an "Israel exception" to a lot of the ways we might think about the ideological divide."

Here's another "exception" for you to ponder: that the Nazis had no problems in having Arabs as allies.

So, there really is a "unified theory" to explain these exceptions- it's called antisemitism. The Left is as antisemitic as the Nazis were. The only difference at this point in time is that the Nazis had the power to enforce the destruction of Jews- the Left does not lack the will to destroy Israel- they just lack the power-for now.

The Hive Mind

Zombie's brilliant post from late last night.

I ran into an LLL friend on the bus tonight. She'd gone campaigning for d__wipe in Penn. this weekend, and said she got Mixed Results. Some Bush voters who didn't want to talk to them; some Kerry supporters, one Bush guy who wanted to argue with them. Said one man was a soldier who'd been in fallujah until January, and he was furious that at one point, they'd only had one meal every other day. Told the LLLs, "I don't care WHO's running against him--I'm not voting for Bush!" I told my LLL pal that I'd heard they had logistical probs in Iraq. But for her, that's reason enough to ashcan the whole darn war.

I'll be glad when this donnybrook is over.

#130 a noble vision

In contrast, students of political management concentrate upon the political processes that influence those agencies from outside the formal apparatus of government, through such activities as lobbying or elections.

What bullshit. My husband is a lobbyist and believe me it is one of the most formalized apparati of government you can imagine.

BTW, the history of the term comes from the early days of lobbyists who used to hang out in the lobby of the Willard Hotel - during the Grant admin, I believe.

From bradnickel .com:

"Outing Gay Republicans
Why are none of the mainstream press covering this guy - Mike Rogers? He is outing prominent gay Repugnants for being hypocrites and is having amazing success at it. ..."

His email is: bradappsonline @ yahoo.com

Here is his business

Here is his Deaniac profile

His personal website

"Submitted by bradnickel on September 9, 2003 -23:59.
I met with a Presidential campaign yesterday. They asked me to advise in general on their web site, but when we got into our discussion, I learned they were doing the static html thing." Here.

The instant message I sent him a bit ago, right before I emailed his post at Sok to the FBI:

"Ive contacted the RNC and the DNC with info about your post asking for the disruption of the coming election. Your bio would seem to suggest you should inderstand it is a felony to interfere with elections. I have yet to contact the FBI with a link to your post calling for tampering with the election. I have saved the page so removing it probably won't do you much good. Good luck with all this."

What a pathetic piece of trash this criminal is. Tampering with an election and praising the outing of homosexuals. One of the lefts finer drones I bet.

#116 BPP

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here.

Islam's views of women are just one aspect of a complex set of religious beliefs, one that can be discarded if the believer so chooses.

Some rules are more important than others. If you discard some of them, you die.

Death for apostasy
Stoning women to death for adultery
Whipping for makeup in Iran
Africa
Sharia generally

If you look at Islam globally, your statement is misguided. If you mean that (so far) women in the United States cannot be subjected to sharia by our law, correct. But Canada is already on its way.

#132 Lady

Said one man was a soldier who'd been in fallujah until January, and he was furious that at one point, they'd only had one meal every other day. Told the LLLs, "I don't care WHO's running against him--I'm not voting for Bush!" I

Good thing he didn't have to fight at the Battle of the Bulge, or Okinawa or anything like that.

120 lazytart 122 grayp

I hardly think keeping women out of the pulpit, etc. is comparable to stoning them, cutting their clitorises, or beheading them.

We aren't talking unequal. We are talking honor killings. We are talking religiously sanctioned domestic abuse. We aren't talking cultural/political equality. We are talking life and death.

A neat little rhetorical trap you've laid there. If I say that things are not as bad as all that, I'll look like I have blinders on. If I say they are that bad, then I've essentially contradicted my previous statements.

Oh well. I'll just say that I don't have any illusions about the depravities of Muslim culture towards women and I don't in any way think there is an equivalent culture in either Christianity or Judaism. However in some Muslim societies like Malaysia, Indonesia, Turkey, Egypt, Jordan, Morocco or Tunisia, attitudes towards women manifest themselves primarily in unequal social status and not violence.

Regardless of any of this, the point still remains: Why would you reject someone who had rejected all of the gender baggage of Islam in favor of an enlightened and tolerant attitude? Isn't it the individual's attitudes that matter most, not the culture they came from? Or do you think that it's once a misogynistic Muslim wife-beater, always a misogynistic Muslim wife-beater?

Remember when some of these creatures were talking about eating beans and Ex-Lax and volunteering for the RNC in New York?

Big talkers. Sin huevos.

#134 Justdanny:

Thank you! I sent something similar to the FLA GOP, but it wasn't nearly as complete or cogent.

Please let me know if you get results.

137 BPP

"individual's attitudes"

and there's the rub, that is not allowed in the muslim cult, an attitude such as that calls for death. If you meet someone who profess's that, then you are not talking to a muslim.,

I said it before, and I'll say it again: Once normal people read the LLL blogs, they will come home. Keep it clean and intelligent (except when circumstances dictate otherwise).

#57 BPP et al who are interested in a former Muslim's view of Islam, there's this site. Last I checked, the poor guy's bandwidth limit had been exceeded and I couldn't get in, but basically he does everything BUT call Islam the Religion of Satan. He uses many quotes from the Koran that certainly appear to be unambiguously evil (Mohammed justifying rape of women captured in war, for example). The best site of it's kind, IMO.

135 Beagle

So Muslims are required to physically abuse their wives, as a matter of law, on pain of being called an apostate?

Think again. You can be a Muslim in good standing and still treat your wife well. Wife-beating and misogyny is general is common, not universal. Of course saying this gets you branded an apologist for Islamo-fascism, but so be it.

#137 BPP

A neat little rhetorical trap you've laid there.

This is not a game. The fact that you cannot answer with any honor the argument placed in front of you exposes your own lack of rigor, intellectual or moral.

I don't have any illusions about the depravities of Muslim culture towards women and I don't in any way think there is an equivalent culture in either Christianity or Judaism

Liar. From your #116 post, that is exactly what you did.

Need I remind you that both Roman Catholicism and Orthodox Judaism, among many others, advocate unequal treatment of women in religious life and that that carries over to non-religious parts of their respective cultures? The phenomenon of the "cafeteria Catholic" is well known. Why should it be not possible for there to be "cafeteria Muslims?"

Regardless of any of this, the point still remains: Why would you reject someone who had rejected all of the gender baggage of Islam in favor of an enlightened and tolerant attitude? Isn't it the individual's attitudes that matter most, not the culture they came from? Or do you think that it's once a misogynistic Muslim wife-beater, always a misogynistic Muslim wife-beater?

If an individual member of the KKK rejected the lynchings but not the crossburnings would you reject that individual?

The culture of Islam is misogynistic. The culture of the KKK is white supremacy. There is no 'cafeteria' moderation. And self-identifying with either culture, even if you choose ala carte your personal behavior still legitimizes that those options are on the menu.

fevered ? When I drink milk I get a little bit feverish. But I'm tellin ya, with a little cornbread stirred up in it, its worth it.

rotten ? After I mow the yard if I cool off before taking a shower, I sure smell rotten.

cruel ? To spiders I am cruel, yes. Please don't ask me to stop. I hate spiders and I will not stop.

superior ? From 1975 to 1979 I was undefeted in a sport called paddle tennis. Its like tennis but the court is smaller and you use wooden paddles. I was city champion four years in a row and at one point went 350 games without losing. Superior ? Damn straight I was.

babbling ? Theres this one woman who works at the local gas station and every time I go in there I try to start a little small talk, but, I can only babble. She looks like Salma Hayek :)

irate ? Yeah, ok, at least three times a week for a variety of reasons.

vitriolic ? Not before September 11th 2001 I was'nt. Unless you messed with my family or friends. Never been real good with words. More often the victim of it than practitioner.

oversimplifying ? Well duh. My three sisters are complete raving moonbats. Try to get a two theme sentence by them and you learn that if you don't melt down the universe into oversimplified innacurate concepts they wont understand anyway, you can't even get them to look toward you.

If people over on Kos's site are openly calling for the subversion of the democratic process, Kos has a legal problem, and he'd better get a handle on it, fast.

He hasn't been even vaguely respectable since that horror show in Fallujah. But this is criminal, and if he wants a shred of cover for his opinions, he'd best get his posters to understand they can't advocate fraud in the election and get away with it.

grayp--

I used to listen to Prarie Home Companion all the time. Then, some years ago, I saw Keillor on Larry King. That man had eyes that were so disturbing if he had sat next to me on the Metro, I would have moved.

I never listened to him again.

I never listened to PHC, thought he was really snide beneath the fake folksiness, but I had the exact SAME reaction to seeing the man in person; at a concert in the Cloisters in the Bronx. His eyes were ice cold, and angry.

More class from DailyKOS. Evidenitally Kos has decided that breaking into a protected section of the website of a candidates daughter and trying to out her as a lesbian on his front page is just part of the game.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Not outing a politician, but a politicians daugher. For some reason I think that Kos would feel differently if it was his child outed on a website like this. Just incredible the lengths these people will go to.

Iron Fist.

Get in touch sweetie.

#139 Arlington

I believe it unlikely I'll ever know if anything is done about this. I've done all I can. But if I do get word I will talk about it here. I really hope several people have contacted the FBI with this info. A lone voice or two can be ignored.

#137 BPP

Or do you think that it's once a misogynistic Muslim wife-beater, always a misogynistic Muslim wife-beater?

Now imagine a Christian does it.

BPP,

Need I remind you that both Roman Catholicism and Orthodox Judaism, among many others, advocate unequal treatment of women in religious life and that that carries over to non-religious parts of their respective cultures?

Yeah, Jewish women are so badly done by. What is it with you lefties that you can't carry a decent argument without insulting Christianity and Judaism? It's a false comparison and therefore dishonest.

#148 killbuckner
(WTF is that nic about, BTW?)

I won't go to his website. (cookies and all that) Who is it?

At any rate, I found the story in the Sunday NYT fascinating for the sole reason that this guy, written about by someone who bears him no ill will, still portrays him as someone so angry and conflicted about his fame and worthiness that he's about to shatter into a million pieces, each and every one full of bile.

But I loved the portrayal of Wonkette, aka Skankette. She gives new meaning to the term "Blog Whore". She makes Moron Dud look like Miss Manners.

For those interested in reading the rants of the far left at KOS regarding what to do in case of a Bush victory in the upcoming election, go to this thread:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

A couple of quotes found there:

"I think this country needs a good cleansing. A Civil War that eliminates a third of the population will be useful. The Reich Wing is a cancer, and it has matasized. (I am only half kidding here.)"

"The Right Wing does want to kill you. Sean Hannity equates Liberalism with Terrorists. He wants to kill both. The faster you realize that our conflict between liberals and the right wing might have to be resolved through violence, the better prepared for it you will be."

140 mudmarine 9/26/2004 09:39PM PST
137 BPP

"individual's attitudes"

and there's the rub, that is not allowed in the muslim cult, an attitude such as that calls for death. If you meet someone who profess's that, then you are not talking to a muslim.,

I have to admit that my arguements with Muslims at least sort of substanciate this. When they're losing even the tiniest point they either start screaming threats or they clam up. I've never seen one dare to break from the pack, at least not one who wasn't doing so before I got there.

144 grayp

Oy - why do these discussions always have to degenerate into name-calling? It's so tedious.

Look, I gotta go to sleep. It's clear you don't have any desire to see Islam as anything but a monolithic, undifferentiated seething mass of violent misogyny. Me? I believe that it is misogynistic but that most of the time this is expressed as unequal social status, comparable to what you see in traditional communities elsewhere in other religions. This is perfectly consistent with what I've been arguing all along, so don't accuse me of being a liar.

All these discussions always hinge on one question: can you be a moderate Muslim?

#116 BPP

Islam's views of women are just one aspect of a complex set of religious beliefs, one that can be discarded if the believer so chooses.

and

The phenomenon of the "cafeteria Catholic" is well known. Why should it be not possible for there to be "cafeteria Muslims?"

Let see "cafeteria Muslim" = apostate muslim = dead muslim. Ask Salman Rushdie among others as to how mainstream middle east muslims feel about picking and choosing aspects of a faith dictated by Allah. To pick and choose as a Catholic (which I'm against) is to call the Pope imperfect. To criticize Islam is to question the perfection and omnipotence of God.

I didn't mean that I substanciate that individual thought carries a death sentence, only that they avoid it as thoug it did.

#156 BPP

All these discussions always hinge on one question: can you be a moderate Muslim?

Finally we agree on something.

No.

Sleep well. See you back on the barricades of civilization tomorrow.

152 zulubaby

Yeah, Jewish women are so badly done by. What is it with you lefties that you can't carry a decent argument without insulting Christianity and Judaism?

Let's leave aside whether I'm a "lefty" or not.

You think the social status of women in Orthodox communities is perfectly fine?

Why do you wingnuts always take critical comment on religious issues as an insult?

BPP,

Why do you wingnuts always take critical comment on religious issues as an insult?

Because that's the implication, is it not? You compare Islam to Christianity and Judaism as though they are remotely similar. It's a false comparison and you know it.

You think the social status of women in Orthodox communities is perfectly fine?

Yes, I do. I'm very close to the Orthodox communities since I come from one and the women are treated beautifully. I'm not sure what your issue is with "social status" -- relating to what, specifically?

BPP,

It's clear you don't have any desire to see Islam as anything but a monolithic, undifferentiated seething mass of violent misogyny.

Desire has nothing to do with. That's where you're mistaken. You have a desire to force Islam into something palatable, something that you can be comfortable with. grayp has no such desire, she's staring at the facts with cold eyes and that's where she's coming from. It's not about what your feelings are, it's about reality. Islam is cruel.

I can say with absolute certainty that I do not and never have had fantasies about Mrs. Kerry. Since my gate does not swing that way, I can also say that I have never had a fetish for Dustin Hoffman either. Therefore, Mrs. Kerry has not and will not impart any "positive impression" on me even if she decides to wear makeup. In the meantime, I still feel sorry for Dustin Hoffman.

#35 hornsofthedevil 9/26/2004 07:34PM PST

I read "The State of the Art". She is as guilty of the same spin that she is accusing LGF of perpetrating. The only mention of "I Don't Want To Be A Great Leader" in the LFG header is in the form of the link (which is the name of the article). She, herself, does not link the article's title directly but lists it as only "Time". I almost missed her link and initially thought the article was not provided for her readers.

She assumes that the LGF's post is purely supported by the title of the article (which the article's author did take from an incomplete quote). She then procedes to argue points against the title instead of the full quotes listed by LGF. In other words, it would of been a lot better if she argued against this:

The one question we have to ask is this: Are things any better in Iraq after one-and-a-half years of occupation? The answer is, no. There’s a spiral of violence and death. We have two options: close our eyes or face that reality. Now Iraq needs to recover its freedom, stability and sovereignty as soon as possible.

He must be referring to the freedom to vote for Saddam Hussein or to be freely fed feet-first into an industrial plastic shredder. (Meaning that Zapatero, based on his quote, thinks it is better to have left Saddam in power and terrorizing his citizens?)

Well, I guess she will see what she wants to see. I still cant understand why KOS thinks LGF is having fantasies about T. H. Kerry.

#144 grayp

KKK was not a "white-supremist" organization, it was WASP supremist. In an area lacking uppity blacks, being a catholic or jew would put you on their shit-list. Asians, latinos, indians, etc. didn't even merrit identification on the hit list.

#160 BPP

"Why do you wingnuts always take critical comment on religious issues as an insult?"

BPP, I have seen many of your comments here, and as an atheist I am not insulted by your statement (above). I will say this that over this one thread you have clearly identified yourself as an islamist.

#154 jab

"I think this country needs a good cleansing. A Civil War that eliminates a third of the population will be useful. The Reich Wing is a cancer, and it has matasized. (I am only half kidding here.)"

Nice quote, what are they gonna do? Wave their "This house is a gun-free zone" signs at us?

I fantasize about the raping Kerry is going to receive at the hands of the voters in November, if that counts.

BPP

This is perfectly consistent with what I've been arguing all along, so don't accuse me of being a liar.

I thought you were going to bed. You are a liar. because with one post you posited a moral equivelence and in a next you denied it.

Let's leave aside whether I'm a "lefty" or not.

Fair enough. How about if we just say you are wrong without ascribing to you any political suasion?

You think the social status of women in Orthodox communities is perfectly fine?

Strawman argument. It's odd that we can't find any Orthodox women being murdered in the context of honor killings, stoned, beheaded for adultery, fornication, etc. None of us here seem to be able to find any Orthodox women in fear for their lives. If you do, let us know. You will not find a more ardent group of defenders.

Why do you wingnuts always take critical comment on religious issues as an insult?

We don't take critical comment on religious issues as an insult. I've had my ass kicked all over this blog and so have others. We are an equal opportunity ass-kicking bunch.

And you, BPP, are still, via your own posts on this thread, a liar.

#164 PETN Sandwich

KKK was not a "white-supremist" organization, it was WASP supremist. In an area lacking uppity blacks, being a catholic or jew would put you on their shit-list. Asians, latinos, indians, etc. didn't even merrit identification on the hit list.

You are absolutely right. My paternal grandfather was Klan, and it was not because of blacks. It was the Papists.

I am off to bed.

((((((zulubaby))))))

Interesting rebuttals to BPP. I've read the Koran, and was quite shocked at much of what I read, but then put into context as equivalent to the fire and brimstone of the Old Testament, and wrote it all off as antiquated claptrap.

Can someone explain to me why it's fine for the Bible to require execution of children for cursing parents, support for slavery, dominion of men over woman, discrimination against visually impaired etc. etc.? Why is LGF not railing against the Bible in the same way?

Don't know what I'm talking about? Start here:
[Link: www.gly.uga.edu...]

Grr, how the heck did the KKK get into this thread? There is nothing to argue about in regards to the KKK. It is silly to keep adding people to the list that the KKK hates - they hate everyone that is not a member. Since Reconstruction, the KKK has been and still is a pure, evil, hate group.

#130 a noble vision

Thank you for following up my post with further information. This reassures me that I'm not just being paranoid here.

Unfortunately, as a non-US citizen, I don't feel I can follow this any further without unacceptably poking my nose into others' business. Hopefully, others who have standing as US voters will look into what I feel has the potential to be a significant story.

#157

re. 'cafeteria muslims'

Do you actually know any Muslims? Does anyone posting here know any?
I do, and I've never heard any of the non-practising or otherwise lapsed Muslim folk raise the slightest concern over apostasy.

#168 Emmjayy

When was the last time a Christian or Jew stoned their child for talking back? Or sold our children into slavery? Or sacrificed animals at the Temple? Or killed someone for getting a bad haircut?

Get real--there is no moral equivalency between Christianity and Judaism vs. Islam. Look at Darfur in the Sudan--who is having prayer services for the victims? The Jews and Christians--not the Moslems. I was just at one two weeks ago and every religious group in town was there except for the Moslems.

Pathetic. GAZE

emmjayy, back from Indymedia, are you?

I've read the Koran, and was quite shocked at much of what I read, but then put into context as equivalent to the fire and brimstone of the Old Testament, and wrote it all off as antiquated claptrap.

Except that it's not antiquated at all, is it? Muslims follow the Koran very closely. Right here, right now, in 2004.

Why is LGF not railing against the Bible in the same way?

Too cute!

The quality of troll continues to deteriorate.

grayp, sleep tight.

173 zulubaby

The quality of troll continues to deteriorate.

Indeed. I've seen a dramatic decline just in the last 3 or 4 days. It's disheartening. If they are going to visit, the least they could do is say something intelligent, if misguided.

T

#168,

All of the points you make are part of a fallacious tu quoque that falls flat.

There is no one nowhere who carries out those things mentioned.

Slavery in the Bible was allowed because it set parameters for owning slaves and set limits on punishment. The authors of the Bible were wise enough to know that an attempt to get rid of slavery outright would have been foolish and impossible given the structure of then-extant societies. Better to set moral limits over the practice than run with a pipe dream of complete abolition.

Actions are what matter and that is why no one is railing against the Bible except for fools and anti-Christian bigots on the Left. The Left looks and sees women not allowed to lead a Church and equate that, somehow, with present-day clitorectomies, honor killings, television shows instructing husbands on how and where to beat their women, and treatment lower than that of chattel that pervades the Islamic world. The Left thinks itself wise and erudite for making such an asinine equivalence.

Also note that this is the best the Left can do. Rather than analyze what Islam is and how it operates in 2004, they look for select verses in the Bible (devoid of context or explanation) and say, "Gotcha! Christians are just as bad as they are..." Only a moral fool would say that, but what largely defines today's Left? Moral foolishness.

#173 zulubaby,

The quality of troll continues to deteriorate.

The good lady shows the brevity I should have shown in #176.

#173 zulubaby

No, it is not all antiquated. Christians are still using Leviticus as the basis for discriminating against homosexuals, which when supported by Church and State (whatever difference there is left now), encourages violence against them.

So yes, there are still many Bible-based terrorist attacks against gays every year, some including torture and murder. Not to mention bombings of medical clinics by pro-life extremists.

#176 addison

Thank you first for actually bothering to try and explain this, and not marking me as a troll (initially) for simply discussing an issue.

I see your point on the way the left makes these equivalencies, although would point out that there is still an astonishing amount of discrimination and ultimately violence arising from the Bible today.

#179,

...although would point out that there is still an astonishing amount of discrimination and ultimately violence arising from the Bible today.

You would "point out that" without one example?

And I swear if you mention abortion clinic bombings, I'm going to tear what little hair I have out of my head. There have been, what?, six bombings in a decade and all were roundly deplored by Christian organizations across America. It is explicitly not condoned in the Bible to murder (from the Hebrew, "Thou shalt not murder) and that stands in stark contrast to the Koran, where murder is both condoned and promoted.

Any evil done in the name of the Bible is de facto anti-Christian. From the original Hebrew, the "Thou shalt not take God's name in vain" is actually "Thou shalt not carry God's name in vain," as in, you shan't do evil while claiming to do so under the auspices of God and the Holy Bible. The Koran explicitly demands of its followers to murder, mame, and destroy while 'carrying' the name of Allah (e.g., the cry of Allah Akhbar before detonation in a suicide bombing).

Almost any attempt to find moral equivalence between the Bible and Koran will fall flat. If you carry each book out, you get, on one hand, America, and, on the other, Afghanistan under the Taliban or Sudan or Saudi Arabia or the PLO...

#180 adddison

You would "point out that" without one example?

Violence against gays, legitimized (in the eyes of extremists, and perhaps some moderates) by the bigoted attitudes of the church and various government representatives, arising from e.g. Leviticus.

I do not see explicit examples. I know of one major anti-gay action (Matthew Shepard, I believe) and that was denounced by mainstream Christian groups. After checking out the man who killed him, Aaron McKinney, I cannot even find that he was or is a Christian. Also very telling is that the people who called for his execution were, you guessed it, Christian. So, that won't wash.

If you are to assign tacit approval by government officials, I expect links, quotes, the whole thing to back up such a claim.

This is largely a moot argument, anyway. The crimes, imagined or real, of Christians pale by many orders of magnitude the crimes of wanton murder carried out by Secular governments and Islamic ones. There is no Christian equivalent to the Gulags, the mass induced famines in China, the Killing Fields, the Vietnamese concentration camps, Black September, the Kuwaiti purge of 'Palestinians', Sudan (happening right now)... None.

You're barking up the wrong tree with this one.

181

Violence against gays, legitimized (in the eyes of extremists, and perhaps some moderates) by the bigoted attitudes of the church and various government representatives, arising from e.g. Leviticus.

Don't mind me.. just passing through... but I noticed your post, and I'm unaware of any governmentally sanctioned kill-the-homosexuals programs. I don't know of any legitimate members of government or Christian leadership that advocate this sort of thing either. Feel free to enlighten us all.

T

#183,

I know. Any further attempt at making this dog bark isn't going to do it and just shows an anti-Christian bigotry, not a thoughtful point of debate.

This may be a situation where someone feels something that simply isn't true and no amount of fact, reasoning, or logic will pursuade.

#178 emmjayy 9/26/2004 11:48PM PST

Although there are posters out there that like to stir things up and I do not like getting involved with these types of things, I wanted to address this one. If they are murdering then these people are breaking one of the ten Commandments. They are driven by hate. It is the same reason why I will not support killing an Arab due to his/her faith and why I will not clump all Arabs in with the terrorists. However, I will not support Islam or say it preaches peace. I see Mohammed as a false prophet.

Mat 7:15-16
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them.

Because someone sins or follows a false prophet does not mean I am justified to kill them or act violent towards them due to it:

John 8:1-30
"He who is without sin among you, let him throw the first stone at her." Again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. They, when they heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the oldest, even to the last. Jesus was left alone with the woman where she was, in the middle. Jesus, standing up, saw her and said, "Woman, where are your accusers? Did no one condemn you?" She said, "No one, Lord." Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you. Go your way. From now on, sin no more."

As for homosexuality, although it is a sin, I will not condemn a person for being homosexual. This does not mean that I will stand idle in regards to the sacrement of marriage.

Do not give what is holy to dogs, or throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them underfoot, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Getting a job, fair pay, fair taxes, etc are not "holy". Marriage is.

#178 emmjayy

So yes, there are still many Bible-based terrorist attacks against gays every year, some including torture and murder.

Oh come on! Post a source or get the f*ck off the bus.

#164 PETN Sandwich

Well, for some toilet paper was the weapon of choice. I'm not sure how you rid the country of the "Reich Wing" with T.P. It sounded so gruesome I didn't ask.

#186,

I think we've been had in terms of time wasted responding to foolishness. Goaded by a bigot who has no proof of what he writes. That he believes what he writes is good enough for him.

I cannot, in good faith, just write that every year, thousands of Catholic Priests molest little boys without having some source to state that.

Bible-based torture and murder... As Spiny Norman so tersely put it, get the f*ck off the bus with that crap. I completely missed that post earlier. Gah, what a fool.

And emmjayy, you're not "discussing an issue"; you are throwing out lies and bigoted aspersions on Christians and the Bible. That is not discussion; it is both demagogic and unethical.

You've posted a total of nine times and five have been in this thread to sully the Bible. Hope you're proud of yourself. If zulubaby was correct and you are from Indymedia, I expect nothing but moral foolishness and lies...so be it.

#186 Spiny Norman 9/27/2004 12:43AM PST

He is talking about people justifying murder and violence based on passages in the Bible (Genisis, Leviticus, Romans, 1st Corinthians, Timonthy). The Bible only states that homosexuality is a sin, and hopefully I addressed up above why murder and violence is a product of people's hate and not due to what the Bible teaches.

Ok, no more religious stumping from me. I'm not a religious scholar. Heh, I would rather do politics than sparring religious issues.

#189 Fondu,

Exactly. It states that it is a sin ("an abomination"), not an evil. There is an important distinction because sins are not inherently evil.

After reading Daily Kos's latest piece of bilge and the televised ravings of the Kerry campaign this week, you can tell the wheels are starting to come off most of the Demoncrat Party....

If they win certain states, it will be by voter fraud or packing the ballot boxes. Very important to vote early or absentee this time so their is a "paper" record of your vote altered.

Also, try to get under some of the local DU types skin by infilrating their campaigns and report back to the Repubs what kind of "direct action" these Bolshes are planning.

It seems as if some of the more openly Morlock types are openly advocating sedition which is a no-no.

I am a publicly avowed atheist living in the buckle of the Bible belt.
I do not have an axe to grind either way, but if Christianity and Islam are really equivalent, then there should be a mob of peasants with torches marching from the local Baptist church to my house at this very moment, I can reasonably expect to be either lynched out of hand or taken before a star chamber proceeding and then lynched, after which my wife will be stoned to death and my children sold into slavery. Given their track record in defending Mohammedan atrocities, the local lefties will undoubtedly endorse this action out of sensitivity to Christian culture.

Why isn't this happening?

Moral equivalency is an evil and stupid form of sophistry, derived from media sound-bite culture and fuelled by a vicarious admiration for the power of Mohammedan brutality.

#5

Conspiracy to commit election fraud, open and shut. Has this been reported to the FEC?

Switchboard only lists one bradnickel in the country:

Nickel, Brad
3180 SW 23rd St,
Miami, FL 33145-3118
(305) 443-1062

Nickel, Brad
3180 SW 23rd St,
Miami, FL 33145-3118
(305) 476-8034

perhaps he should be pointed out to the authorities.

I don't think Kos or his volunteers will have too much effect. They probably just want to get a hold of GOP phone list so they can make prank calls, or deliver foaming-at-the-mouth diatribes. ("UAGMIRE! QUAGMIRE! SELECTED NOT ELECTED! BUSHISHITLER! SCREW YOU!") That are only going to make people more pissed off and motivated.

And as for upidstayy, I've never been tortured or harassed by Christians (but I understand there are websites where they can hook you up for that sort of thing if that's what you're into.) The only people who've ever used 'faggot' as an epithet to me are lefties when they find out I'm off the reservation. And the only non-Muslim country I know of where homosexuals get sent to concentration camps is the atheistic worker's paradise of Cuba.

I've never been tortured by Christians

Actually, I take that back. I did hear Tammy Faye Bakker sing once.

come on you silly rabbits, it is a classic liberal tactic to write off a dissenting view as racist/sexist...

or another "ist" of some order.....

rape fantasies?

i am the cowardly lion running for the safety of a tree...

#168 emjay

Sorry bro, but this is what comes of someone having only partial access to info. I know what you are referring to about children talking back. But you only have half the story.

The other half of the story is that this law has never been used in our history. You are knocking "orthodox jews" (which in itself is a nonsense term). What that means is jews that happen to hold by the rabbinical tradition of the law. According to that tradition:

1) The death penalty was rarely, if ever invoked on anyone for any reason. Because it was nearly impossible to meet the standards of evidence to do so.

2) The particular law you are referring to has never, in our history been used. Not once. If you want me to hunt down the source for this, I'll try.

Now, my recommendation is that next time you show a little respect for other people's beliefs, maybe you can go up to a representative of that community and ask them questions about their laws or the reasons for their laws if you have problems with it

Or you can continue being an offensive twit who knows absolutely nothing.

You're choice. :)

-ron

#5

Conspiracy to commit election fraud, open and shut. Has this been reported to the FEC?

Switchboard.com only has 1 bradnickel listed in the country (he's in Miami). Don't know if he's the guy posting this garbage, but someone should alert election officials.

#192 Shiplord

Excellent comeback. The proof is in how we act. Some ignorant jackass can read anything he likes into what we believe, but how we act says it all.

-ron

#195
Certainly a heinous atrocity, no doubt about it. It might have been worse though, they could have put her panties on your head.

Come to think of it, I too have suffered persecution at the hands of Christians. One time I visited a service at something called the Church on the Rock in Carrollton Texas. The purpose was to gather material for an article in a skeptical publication.
The estimable evangelist David Kennedy was in charge. At the conclusion of the service, I firmly declined to join or profess my faith in Christ or whoever. Kennedy didn't take rejection well; he became quite agitated and accused me of being Satan.
Mind you, I was not accused of being in league with, or a servant of, or even of worshipping, Satan; but was identified as the infernal spirit, Lucifer himself, in person.
I responded that if Satan wanted to put in a personal appearance he would undoubtedly be a lot taller and wear much flashier clothes. "In fact," I said, "he would probably look a lot like you guys," indicating Kennedy and his henchmen. At that point a couple of the brawny 6'5" henchmen, er, ushers, took positions on either side of me and escorted me out the door.
My parting shot was "I've been thrown out of bars and whorehouses all over the world, but this is the first time I've thrown out of the church!"
Not quite the same as being beheaded on video or stoned to death, but probably good enough for leftist standards of equivalency.

Rape threats? Someone has been issuing rape threats without [i]me[/]? Dang it, I've [i]alway's[/i] been the first to threaten rape, and I [b]won't[/b] be left out!

The Kerry's pet hamster is my next target.

PIMF. Duh.

#182

Ironically, one could almost make an argument that there are self-imposed gulags for the PoD (Party of Diversity).

Take a look at the County-by-County results of the famous Red state-Blue State map of the 2000 Presidential election. If one were available for Congressional Districts, ZIP codes, it might be even more instructive.

Taking my home in Washington State (a blue State in the last election) as one example, even the County-by-County results highlight the split.

California... Same thing.

I don't recall either the Illinois or New York maps at the moment.

Rape fantasies?

Nope.

Charles did delete a post I made (in my other incarnation as "Les") about the theohomoerotic symbolism of one of the pillars of Islam.

# 192 Shiplord Kirel

I was personally invited to join the Michigan Militia by its founder even though I said up front that I was an Objectivist. (Didn't want to move from Minnesota at the time.)

And before anyone goes "Icky! Racists!", please remember that the common public perception of the militia movement during the Clinton Era was to us by our glorius Mainstream Media.

BPP,

I love how you whine about how these things "always degenerate into name calling" in one post, then two posts later refer to Zulubaby as a "wing nut".

Fuck off.

How's THAT tolerance for ya'?

PIMF!

"...brought to us by our glorius Mainstream Media."

#182 adddison --- I don't think the Matthew Sheppard incident is as cut-and-dry homophobia as the media made it out to be. (I think anti-gay was a part of it, but it was mostly two drugged-out losers robbing and beating a guy for his money.)

I dip hear a talk show last week where one of Fred Phelps's goons was arguing with the host (a rabbi) and claiming that any given gay man was morally worse than Saddam Hussein, but the reason Fred Phelps and his ilk get publicity is precisely because they are such an aberration.

Might have been posted, but I noticed that one of the guys said that they already work for the Kerry Campaign and that they're going to 'volunteer' to screw Bush...

isn't that against FEC? (Since he already works for Kerry, it'd be the Kerry campaign trying to mess up their rival)

It's clear you don't have any desire to see Islam as anything but a monolithic, undifferentiated seething mass of violent misogyny.

Actually Islam has proven itself to be a diverse, highly differentiated seething mass of violent misogyny.

#193 smill1953

DO NOT POST PHONE NUMBERS HERE

Not yours, not his, not anyones.

Huge no-no.

David Frum comments at NRO :

When liberal pundits began hailing the emergence of left-wing blogging as a counterweight to conservative talk-radio (and for that matter the pro-war blogging of sites like LittleGreenFootballs.com, Instapundit.com, HughHewitt.com, BelmontClubBlogspot.com, AndrewSullivan.com, NRO, and so many others) they did so because they hoped to find in the left blogs a substitute for the fading dominance of the old-line liberal media.

#193 smill1953

Posting someones personal info is OUTRAGEOUS.

You are a non-thinking asswipe for doing that.

#154

jab,
The public needs to be made aware of how lunatic the fringe really is. They have set up a fail-safe that doesn't allow any possibility that Bush could win legally. If Bush wins then he cheated. There will be disruption and violence from the left. It will be a call to arms from people who imagine themselves social reformers and revolutionaries. I should know, I used to be one of them.

They are counting on people rallying to their cause (even though most of them don't know what their cause looks like). They are convinced that millions of people are as unhappy with their lot in life as they are and just need some encouragement to incite a cultural rebellion (another Bolsheveik revolution).

The hardcore lefties see only the manipulation of people and institutions by corporate powers and the coercive nature of republican government(never mind that democratic government is virtually identical in scope and power). The less rabid dems I refer to as feel-good socialists. They genuinely feel bad that some people are have-nots. It just isn't fair that some people have lucked into a good lot in life. Hard work and dedication is just too much to ask as a precursor to success so let's just make sure we give everyone what they need.

The hardcores are hoping the feel-goods join them in the struggle against the oppressive Republican tyrrany. They fantasize about Kerry as a Che Guevara with great hair leading a general strike and the rise of the DNC as the Peoples Party.

2 out of 3 dictators prefer Kerry!

Charles, cleanup in aisle 193.

come on you silly rabbits, it is a classic liberal tactic to write off a dissenting view as racist/sexist...

That's why I've declared my race as "Conservative-American" and anyone who speaks ill of me or my people is a racist. I see why the left does that. It is so much easier then actually debating the issues.

but the reason Fred Phelps and his ilk get publicity is precisely because they are such an aberration.

The left likes to use them and portray them as mainstream conservatives. Example. ACLU was suing Duluth Minnesota this past year to force a 10 Commandments monument to be removed after 45 years. The left wing Duluth paper needed a conservative villian, so they called up Phelps in Kansas, told him what was going on and asked what he felt about it. Of course he was in against removing it, but the newspaper then used him as the face of the pro-commandment crowd.

#200 Shiplord Kirel
LOL re: Church of the Rock! See the billboards all the time.

This ( and the Rev. Phelps) is why you don't turn people loose with the Bible to carve out their own theology...

Dave,

Fred Phelps is a registered democrat...

Fred Phelps is a registered democrat...

But that nasty fact doesn't have to be reported when a newspaper is trying to link him to conservatives.

161 zulubaby

Yes, I do. I'm very close to the Orthodox communities since I come from one and the women are treated beautifully. I'm not sure what your issue is with "social status" -- relating to what, specifically?

I'll relate one story from last year.

In April of last year my grandmother died at 88. She lived in London, where my mother grew up and my family came over from the US for the funeral. It so happened that this happened around Passover, so there was some concern about whether the burial could take place in time for the holiday and what days would be off-limits etc. My uncle called the burial society handling the arrangements to ask whether they could accomodate the fact that relatives were coming in from overseas. You know what the rabbi did? He asked whether the chief mourners were sons or daughters. When told that they were daughters (my mother and my aunt) he said, "Well if they were sons we could be more flexible, but with daughters we cannot." This forced a change in plans for my mother and father and me in terms of flight arrangements.

Then, if that wasn't bad enough, at the actual burial, we discovered that my aunt and mother, as women, were not allowed at the gravesite until after the rituals had been completed. Combine that with the fact that they did not allow my sister there (for the same reason), nor did they allow me, my father or my brother because we are Kohanim and thus fobidden to take part in an "unclean" act like a burial. This meant that my family, which had travelled 6,000 miles to be there, was not allowed to attend our own relative's funeral. And to make it even more absurd, the only person who was allowed was my sister's husband, who is a Roman Catholic.

"Treated beautifully" indeed!

#186, 184, 183 etc.

Here are some examples of anti-gay violence:
[Link: www.datalounge.com...]
[Link: www.datalounge.com...]
[Link: www.planetout.com...]
[Link: www.hrw.org...]

Dave,

PRECISELY.

206 lazytart

love how you whine about how these things "always degenerate into name calling" in one post, then two posts later refer to Zulubaby as a "wing nut".

Fuck off.

How's THAT tolerance for ya'?

I only stuck a label on her after she stuck one on me.

Here's one I'll stick on you:

Addle-brained hairy-knuckled Neanderthal.

Oh and here's something else:

FOAD

Whatever.

Child.

Conservatives/Libertarians:
Against gun control

Leftists:
Gun control

National Socialists/KKK:
Gun control (for minorities)

Conservatives/Libertarians:
Free markets

Leftists:
Regulation of industry

National Socialists/KKK:
Regulation of industry

Conservatives/Libertarians:
Against affirmative action

Leftists:
For affirmative action (of minorities)

National Socialists/KKK:
For affirmative action (of whites)

Conservatives/Libertarians:
State serves the individual

Leftists:
Individual serves the collective (State, Party, class)

National Socialists/KKK:
Individual serves the collective (State, Party, race)

Conservatives/Libertarians:
Rationality is an inherent quality of human beings

Leftists:
Rationality is an illusion of class interests

National Socialists/KKK:
Rationality is an illusion of racial interests

Sorry, upid-stayy, none of your links come up with anything near the "Bible-based terrorist attacks against gays every year, some including torture and murder." You've got some random instances of violence and a nutjob sending out threatening letters ... which is bad enough, but falls far short of "Bible-based terrorism."

Makes you wonder what people are like in their every day life.

I wonder if some of the left wing loonies criticize the NYT out of this reasoning:

1) We know the NYT is biased towards the left, and we like it that way

2) However, they will inevitably get complaints that they are biased towards the left

3) Therefore, if we complain that they are biased towards the right, then the NYT will conclude they are in the middle, right where they want their reputation to be. If the NYT does not receive such criticism, they may begin to recognize that they are biased towards the left, and we can't have that.

Of course, I'm sure some of the left wing loonies actually criticize the NYT as being biased against them because they are left wing loonies and have no sense of reality. But some might be playing a more deliberate strategy.

BPP (#221)

With all due respect, I'm terribly sorry for your loss and for the additional stress put on you by the rabbi, but that is not indicative of Orthodox Jewry worldwide and certainly foreign to me and my experiences.

Combine that with the fact that they did not allow my sister there (for the same reason), nor did they allow me, my father or my brother because we are Kohanim and thus fobidden to take part in an "unclean" act like a burial.

That is an entirely separate issue and you are privileged to be a Kohan but if the burden is too much for your delicate sensibilities, convert to Islam. It's disgraceful that you would complain about being a Kohan!

I'm really starting to think that being Jewish is too much for some Jews to handle. I've never heard of a Jew whining about the responsibilities put on him because he is a Kohan. I'm actually shocked.

For the Democratic party, these kinds of things are not particularly new. I am simply thankful that they have not begun cooperating on an operational level with Islamic terrorists to kill Americans in terror attacks. If that were to happen, then we would really be in big trouble.

3) Therefore, if we complain that they are biased towards the right, then the NYT will conclude they are in the middle, right where they want their reputation to be. If the NYT does not receive such criticism, they may begin to recognize that they are biased towards the left, and we can't have that.

That seems reasonable. It also explains unfounded attacks against Bush's Nat'l Guard service. It mutes the effect of the SBVT.

#231 zulubaby

I wish I knew what you two are talking about. It certainly sounds interesting. :)

I might not be so expert of Islam as some, and I know indeed little of Judaism, but I know deeply Roman Catholics.

Roman Catholics simply ditched the parts of the Old Testament that incited to violence and similar stuff.
Those are considered a sort of folklore of ancient times, with no relevance to the modern age.

I remember clearly a piece of the Scripture (can't really quote it, tho) saying that the wife must submit to her husband. And the priest's sermon, explaining that it's no more like that, that nowadays the Catholic Church regards husband and wife to be equal.

This deep reformation is what Islam needs. But I know it will be extremely hard, given that in Islam the integralist current is 1) very strong 2) very violent.

However, I will not jump on the "Kill'em all now" wagon.

zulubaby

That is an entirely separate issue and you are privileged to be a Kohan but if the burden is too much for your delicate sensibilities, convert to Islam. It's disgraceful that you would complain about being a Kohan!

I'm actually shocked that you consider being a Kohan to be some kind of privilege which I should hold up like a badge of honor. I don't object to the designation - I always thought of it as an interesting insight into what my ancient ancestors must have done for a living. But the idea that it's a privilege that I should be proud of is, to me, utterly ridiculous.

From your comments, it's quite clear you have no understanding whatsoever of what it means to be a committed non-Orthodox Jew. I'm guessing you hold us in contempt and consider the Judaism we practice to be not "real" Judaism. I've come to expect nothing less from the Orthodox in general.

Can I ask to whoever is competnet what a Kohan Jew is?

#214 mbrooks

Thank you for your post. You make astute observations. Of course, one only need to go to the link I suggested in #154 to see how delusional some of those extreme left-wingers can be.

Nothing new to me though since I've been around long enough to remember the Eisenhower administration.

There is something I would be interested in knowing. Since you were once a far lefty (how long ago?), maybe you could share why you now have more conservative views.

234 Thom

The Kohanim are the ancient priestly class within Judaism. The designation is passed down from father to son. It's totally meaningless except among the very Orthodox who still sometimes assign different ritual roles to them. Within the Reform movement, it has no role whatsoever.

Well, before I get blasted about my above comment about how people act in their every day life, it was in regards to what this topic is about and not the fru fru I seem to have posted in the middle of.

#239 BPP

So why were you upset that you weren't allowed to attend an Orthodox funeral? You must have known their views on your lineage.

241 Thom

You must have known their views on your lineage.

No. It was the first time I had ever experienced different treatment because of being a Kohan. In my experience it's just a quirky, interesting designation that no one takes at all seriously. It's on my Ketubah (marriage contract) but that's the only time I can recall it even being mentioned. But to Orthodox like zulubaby, all these things are beyond criticism. It's two totally different worldviews and pointless to argue.

#237 FabioC.,

Can I ask to whoever is competnet what a Kohan Jew is?

A Jew who is a Cohen has paternal lineage directly from Aaron, the brother of Moses.

#242 BPP

So how did they know you were Kohan in the first place?

BPP (#236)

From your comments, it's quite clear you have no understanding whatsoever of what it means to be a committed non-Orthodox Jew.

Since I come from an Orthodox Jewish family, you're quite correct in that assessment. What of it?

I'm guessing you hold us in contempt and consider the Judaism we practice to be not "real" Judaism. I've come to expect nothing less from the Orthodox in general.

Really? You guessed wrong. Very wrong. Apparently I'm not as stuck-up and judgmental as you are. Perhaps you need to take a look at your own biases.

It's totally meaningless except among the very Orthodox who still sometimes assign different ritual roles to them.

Convert to Islam, you'll be far happier.

D'oh. Thanks PDM. So they knew from your family name?

But to Orthodox like zulubaby, all these things are beyond criticism.

Yet you accuse me of being contemptuous? Wow, you're a real piece of work.

#246 Thom,

So they knew from your family name?

There are family names that tend to be Kohanim, but one can't really depend on that as an accurate indicator.
The information is passed on through the generations (most often from father to son).
I'm not a Cohen, but I am a Levi which is the tribe that Kohanim come from. However the line of Kohanim are direct descendants of Aaron and hold very special status in Judaism.

Being a Cohain isn't a privilege in Reform judaism?

Interesting.

But, BTW, I'd hardly call myself "very Orthodox" (do you mean Haredim?), and it isn't "totally meaningless" to me. It really is too bad if your father's funeral was so upsetting to you, but amoung non-reform Jewry, it's just one of those things. Being a woman can be difficult. Being a man can be difficult. Being a Cohen can be difficult. Life is difficult, and Jews make life difficult for Jews. This is news to you?

#248 PDM

How does one verify one's lineage? Do they keep family trees going back to Aaron (which would be awesome, I have to say)?

246 Thom

Not all Kohanim are named Cohen, Kahan, Kahn or any other variants although many are. Our name is totally different (as my nic - my initials - would suggest).

They knew we were Kohanim because the rabbis asked the crowd of mourners if there were any and my father, not knowing what they were going to do, raised his hand. The rabbi then took us aside and put my brother and father and me in a special room away from the rest of the crowd for the duration of the funeral.

245 zulubaby

My apologies if your views are different from the majority of Orthodox who do not respect the other branches of Judaism. But what else am I to conclude when you say something totally asinine like "Can't handle being a Jew? Convert to Islam."

And I would definitely characterize your earlier statement that I am disgraceful for complaining about this episode from my grandmother's funeral as being intolerant. Who the $%^%$$# are you to say I'm disgraceful?

Can you say chutzpah?

BPP:

"But the idea that it's a privilege that I should be proud of is, to me, utterly ridiculous."

Is this an example of the respect between denominations that you demand from the Orthodox? sauce for the goose, you know.....

#250 Thom,

How does one verify one's lineage? Do they keep family trees going back to Aaron (which would be awesome, I have to say)?

Verification is difficult. I have only the knowledge that my grandfather was a Levi and that my father was one. My son will learn that he is one through me. There are now some genetic tests that can identify Kohanim, but I am not aware of how precise they are. My understanding is that they are pretty reliable.

Here is a good page that explains a lot about Kohanim and Levim.
[Link: www.geocities.com...]

They knew we were Kohanim because the rabbis asked the crowd of mourners if there were any ...

Ah!

Thanks for the link, PDM.

Hi PDM

The genetics aren't all that reliable: the Cohainim have a modal Y Chromosome haplotype, but its only modal. Non-paternity (er....ahem...a nice way of putting it) does accumulate through history and happens to every family, sooner or later ;-)

Its still a big deal to some of us "ridiculous" jews, who apparently are so far deluded as to have people expect little of us. That and the way I oppress my wife (It is to laugh, that one. I mean....Heh....)

252 Hhar

At first glance what you say appears correct. But I'm not spewing contempt on zulubaby's right to think what she thinks. She can think whatever she wants. If she wants to think that being a Kohan is a great honor and privilege, she can.

But she thinks that my not thinking that is disgraceful. Furthermore, she says this is evidence that I "can't handle being a Jew".

So who's tolerant and who's intolerant?

249 Hhar

Life is difficult, and Jews make life difficult for Jews. This is news to you?

Hah! That's the most insightful thing anyone's said all day!

I actually remember one other time when the Kohan status makes a difference. In my mother-in-law's synagogue (Conservative), the first aliyah for every Torah reading goes to a Kohan. I assume that's the case in all traditional synagogues.

And I would definitely characterize your earlier statement that I am disgraceful for complaining about this episode from my grandmother's funeral as being intolerant.

Here's what I wrote BPP:

It's disgraceful that you would complain about being a Kohan!

But since you consider it a meaningless quirk, I now understand where your contempt comes from.

Who the $%^%$$# are you to say I'm disgraceful?

Yeah, after all, only you hold the right to insult all Orthodox Jews.

Look, I'm being completely honest -- I've never heard a Jew complain about being a Kohan or consider it anything less than an honour and the way you dismiss it as meaningless is shocking to me.

#256 Hhar,

Hi :). Thanks for that. It's a bit technical for me. I was a part of a group for a while (JewishGen) that discussed it all the time. Honestly I just filed all of the emails after my interest passed. But this FAQ link from the group probably has a ton of info on the subject:
[Link: www.familytreedna.com...]

I'm content to take your word for it regarding the reliability. I'm one to give the benefit of the doubt to Torah and tradition before giving it to science. So, I think the word of my grandfather and father is accurate enough for me. I imagine someday science will catch up.

I'm sorry folks. That accident (and subsequent accident with the CATV machine) must have knocked what little sense I had right out of me.

"racial slurs, death threats and rape fantasies directed against liberals, Democrats, Muslims, foreigners, and journalists on LittleGreenFootballs.com."

I honestly don't remember racial slurs, death threats or rape fantasies against anyone libs, dems, Muslims, foreigners (excepting, of course, our friend bigel with his get all the Jew out of Europe and then Nuke it) and journalists. Oh sure, there may have been some trolls who said things like that but I've either blocked them from my memory or Charles deleted them before I saw them.
Seriously.
I can imagine some lines taken out of context or misquoted and then used by that blubbering idiot Kos, but really DEATH THREATS, RAPE FANTASIES? Oh please.
Charles I say this with all respect, why do you bother with Kos anyway? You know he has NOTHING to add to the national debate about all of the problems facing us and the world today. Stop giving him publicity. Frankly, anyone who reads him and believes him can have him. I don't want them over here.
You know, I looked at Du and they have a disclaimer about if your conservative or of a conservative bent you're not welcome here. So I register and my one comment was, how can you believe in free speech and have a preface to your blog like that? It was deleted and I was de-registered (?) within 15 minutes. The far, way far left and the far, way far right do have something in common - they abhor, that is to say HATE, dissent from their chosen points of view. Please, let's not give them anymore publicity. Please?

The reason that at first glance I appear to be right is because I am right, at second and third glance too. You are hair-splitting because you don't want to acknowlege that maybe you aren't a paragon of civility. You aren't. Saying that Orthodox beliefs are ridiculous, and that you've come to expect so little of the Orthodox isn't civil, or respectful.

From my point of view, you may be a committed non-Orthodox Jew, but you are also busily hacking away at your roots, constructing some bogey man Orthodoxy that you can make snide comments about "unequal treatment". Hello? Judaism is about unequal traetment of everything: The light from the darkness, the clean and the unclean, child from adult, and (hold your breath) man from woman, even (gasp!) Jew from non-Jew. Unequal does not mean cruel, unprincipled, disrespectful, unjust...it means "not equal". As in Kohain is "not equal" to Israel. This isn't an extreme view of ethics, its normative Judaism.

You might not like the way zulubaby phrased it, but I'd say that yes, you have a bit of a difficult time being a Jew if normative Judaism (ie not just your particuilar brand) is "ridiculous" and somehow culturally as problematic as the Koranic justifications of wifebeating. We are a people, not a doctrine. I could be wrong, but it appears to me that you are forgetting that.

AAAAAHHHHHH

262 is directed at BPP.

I'm. An. Idiot.

BPP:

I've been to many Conservative shuls and The Kohains also deliver the priestly benediction, and redeem their firstborn sons. I am given to understand that they are less restrictive about marrying converts, and the rules regarding burial are I think respected.

In any event, being a Kohain is a big deal. It IS a privilege. It is a privilege to be a JEW. It is a privilege to be BORN a Jew. It is a privilege to CONVERT to Judaism. Gifts and burdens, all around........... With all respect, I just can't understand a Judaism that doesn't recognise this.

Zulubaby,

being Jewish is too much for some Jews to handle.

This Christian is LMAO!

I don't know about that, but I know many people whose "religion" is too much of a pain in the ass for them.

They devolve quickly into the very ones p*ssing all over the religion themselves.

With friends like these...

All right, last word on the subject.

zulubaby,

I honestly didn't give being a Kohan two thoughts before the episode last year and haven't given it much thought afterwards. But it's incorrect to say I complained about the status. I compained about the way this ultra-frum burial society dealt with it. Every other funeral I've been to did not have this issue, so it was a surprise to me, as it was to my father and every other member of my family.

Finally, if you choose to interpret what I've said as insulting (while maintaining that your posts are not) then there's no point in saying anything further. It's clear we're on different planets here.

But I'm sorry if I offended you.

260 PDM

You probably remember the study that came out a few years ago that tried to determine whether Kohanim across the world, all of whom (like me) learned about their status from their fathers, could be determined to have a common genetic ancestor. I thought those results showed pretty conclusively that there was.

262 Hhar

Excellent points. I respect your point of view.

How's that?

Unequal does not mean cruel, unprincipled, disrespectful, unjust...it means "not equal".

I wish you were right, but sadly you are not. One need only look at the situation with non-Orthodox Judaism in Israel or the refusal of many Orthodox shuls (not all of course) to take part in interdenominational activities with other non-Orthodox shuls in the same community.

Or the many lesser insults such as one episode in Britain a few years ago when the Chief Rabbi was overheard referring to a Reform rabbi who had just died as being "among those who destroy the faith."

If you get enought of these kinds of incidents you have no choice but to conclude that "unequal" does indeed mean "disrespectful" to many Orthodox.

I'm glad to hear that you are different.

I'm sorry folks. That accident (and subsequent accident with the CATV machine) must have knocked what little sense I had right out of me.

"racial slurs, death threats and rape fantasies directed against liberals, Democrats, Muslims, foreigners, and journalists on LittleGreenFootballs.com."

I honestly don't remember racial slurs, death threats or rape fantasies against anyone libs, dems, Muslims, foreigners (excepting, of course, our friend bigel with his get all the Jew out of Europe and then Nuke it) and journalists. Oh sure, there may have been some trolls who said things like that but I've either blocked them from my memory or Charles deleted them before I saw them.
Seriously.
I can imagine some lines taken out of context or misquoted and then used by that blubbering idiot Kos, but really DEATH THREATS, RAPE FANTASIES? Oh please.
Charles I say this with all respect, why do you bother with Kos anyway? You know he has NOTHING to add to the national debate about all of the problems facing us and the world today. Stop giving him publicity. Frankly, anyone who reads him and believes him can have him. I don't want them over here.
You know, I looked at Du and they have a disclaimer about if your conservative or of a conservative bent you're not welcome here. So I register and my one comment was, how can you believe in free speech and have a preface to your blog like that? It was deleted and I was de-registered (?) within 15 minutes. The far, way far left and the far, way far right do have something in common - they abhor, that is to say HATE, dissent from their chosen points of view. Please, let's not give them anymore publicity. Please?