It is, after all, just one week till election day.

Great, so now I have to add the IAEA to my enemies list?

ah... I love the smell of fraud in the morning...

I think some one might want to e-mail May and Rather on this one. =)

Right now this is a blip on the national radar screen.

Please let it become a mushroom cloud in T minus 24 hours.

Doubt it. A. it sounds like it's unverifiable. B. the MSM would ignore it if it wasnt.

Knock me over with a feather.

#2

Unless you think the IAEA will stop Iran from developing nukes earmarked for Tel Aviv.

What a shock! The MSM is spreading lies in support of Kerry! Why does anybody believe anything they have to say. Add this to Rather's fake documents, and all the other 60 minutes hit pieces.

#61, Monkey 61. Why not, the IAEA has always had you on it's list. Now you are aware of it.

I never had any warm fuzzies from the work of the IAEA to begin with...this just bolsters my case.

It's interesting how last minute revelations about Bush (e.g. he was arrested for driving too slowly) are catapulted into national limelight, but revelations about Kerry (e.g. he lied about meeting with the entire UNSC) fail to gain traction.

This was too early to be their last shot. They will release something new and even more salicious Fri. They think it worked for Gore with the DUI and they always repeat their techniques. The AP hints at it, and they should know since they will be the operatives who do it.
From AP: GREEN BAY, Wis. -- Democratic candidate John Kerry accused President Bush on Tuesday of hiding bad decisions and raised the specter of bad news still to be revealed.

The Pajamahadeen will not waver, will not falter, will not fail...

Oh come on now! Do you really expect me to believe this? If this were true I would have seen it on the News this morn...

Oh, nevermind : )

This will be a daily dose of BS until election day.

Errr. Make that my #8 to #2

Just a bit OT.

Drudge has it on his website that See BS was planning to "report" this fraudulent story on "60 Minutes" the night before the election!

Haven't these a-holes learned anything yet? The MSM have collectively shot themselves in the foot too many times this election!

BTW, has Skerry recanted his claims of this being "one of the greatest blunders of this administration" now that it has proven to be fraudulent?

#11 phxthinker

You're right. But last time Bush was otherwise an unknown quantity to most Americans. This time I think they'll see through any last minute stories designed to embarass Bush.

America should never leave the UN but the UN should be moved to Europe, Paris or some other almost 3rd world capital where spies drunks and liers would find a better reception from the locals.

I can't stand these UN, International crapola groups!!!

They couldn't find their butt with a flashlight in the dark.

When will we be turning that property in NYC into Condo space. Imagine how much parking would be availible if we just send these guys packing. Maybe France will let them set up shop in Paris.

This world is too dangerous a place to be left to the likes of the IAEA, UN, and all the other globalist NGO's and super-national bodies.

Congratulations to Ed for the hat tip. It must be divine to bask in the warm glow of our lizard master's approval.

#18 BingoBunny

Riyadh.

Just think of the possibilities ...

Not sure what to think, but "JuanBGood" over at Roger Simon's blog had some interesting

#16 larry

BTW, has Skerry recanted his claims of this being "one of the greatest blunders of this administration" now that it has proven to be fraudulent?

oh hell no ...are you kidding me? This man is clearly obsessed with lies and the lying liars who tell them.

I just saw Drudge, too.

CBS must be PISSED at the NY Times big-time.

Not only did they grab their scoop, but in doing so, they gave the Bush administration, the Pajamasphere, and even NBC a week to refute the story.

OT

Interesting Article about rising Black Support for W

Why more blacks support Bush this year

by Star Parker

October 26, 2004 | Print | Send

According to two polls released over the week just passed, President Bush has picked up significant ground among black voters. A New York Times poll showed black support for the president at 17 percent.

#16

Do you really think eh will recant his remarks about a fraudulent story. Maybe just like how he met with ALL of the UNSC his campaign can respond by saying it was a private remark not meant to be aired on National TV

I just LOVVVE IT!

"Darn, I wanted to see the forged documents to show how this was somehow covered up," the Bush source, who asked not to be named, mocked, recalling last months CBS airing of fraudulent Bush national guard letters.

Thank God for Drudge, the blogasphere and GWB.

It's a hell of a note when most of the MSM is nothing more than fifth columnists, espionage agents, dysinformation agencies, DNC whores, and troll breeders. And that is their good points.

I would exit the UN, saying it has become another "League of Nations."

Because what's needed is an international organization 100% committed to fighting Islamist mass murder attacks. That will require an organization designed to limit the influence and power of Arab/Muslim states.

You can't have an organization promoting peace, freedom, and good works with a 50-country Arab/Muslim block swaying every vote.

Let's see, Jayson Blair just makes shit up for years and no one over at the Times has a clue.

Now they front page a story that apparently can be fact-checked out of the water by any 10-year-old with a connection to Google.

Wouldn't you be proud to work there?

#11 phxthinker 10/26/2004 08:39AM PST

"This was too early to be their last shot. They will release something new and even more salicious Fri."

Concur. Tick, tick, tick... This weekend will be... interesting.

Drudge has it on his website that See BS was planning to "report" this fraudulent story on "60 Minutes" the night before the election!

So let's we didn't expose the fake National Guard docs and also 60 minutes breaks and runs this fraudulent story Sunday night. Kerry wins by the slimist of margins.

After the election, all of this comes out. That both stories were frauds, CBS had reason to know this ahead of time and there were connections to Dems. Would anything happen?

Sick unto death of MSM's and DNC's expectation that simply everything must be anticipated and planned for and immediately, capably handled during a war. The fact that a vanishingly small percentage of these people have ever served in the military explains part of this mentality.

Let 'em hold up their old "peace now" signs when the hooded jihadists visit them at 3 a.m.

Re: #27 "Why more blacks support Bush this year"

Item From Kerry Spot:

At a John Edwards rally in St. Petersburg on Saturday, white people held "African-Americans for Kerry-Edwards" placards.

Why did they move up this story yesterday?? Was it because it was leaked, or because they got something better and decided to move it to election eve?? I'm a bit nervous, that if something bad (even if blatantly false) is reported about Bush that late it will spell trouble.

I have another question. If say, CBS reports a baltantly false report on election eve and costs Bush the election, will we, the American people, have a case against them of some kind??

I would exit the UN, saying it has become another "League of Nations."

Throw them the hell out of New York while were at it. That's a lot of good office space gone to waste for too long.

REMEMBER THIS:

Charlie (Kerry) don't surf!... aka- Robert Duval

This crap just goes to show you that GW has won the election. As stupid as some of the American people are, and they are... the majority of Americans who can think sensibly know full well when their chains are being jerked...

The UN was a noble experiment. However, it was doomed from the start, since it included the Soviet Union then ruled by Stalin.

Here's paragraph 1 of the response I received from the NYT (I sent a brief email voicing my "displeasure" over their fraudulent story):

Thanks for your message to our Reader Comment mailbox. Your e-mail will reach the appropriate editor promptly. We are grateful to readers who take the time to help us report thoroughly and accurately.

Note the last sentence...yeah, right.

OT:

Also from the NY Times:

Is General Motors jilting Germany for Poland because of the war in Iraq?

Amazing what some German politicians would say these days. Blaming Poland. 1939 all over again.

If FOX picks up this story and runs with it aggressively, the MSM will have a hard time completely ignoring it.

I sent an email to the NYT and in reply I get a courtesy email back with the standard garbage blah blah blah...but in it it also said this

A correction generally takes two or three days to appear on Page A2, after fact checking.

I nearly choked on my coffee...so there you are folks... the actual news report need not be fact checked only the CORRECTION does!

From Roger L. Simon's blog:

RogerA, re: 60 Minutes, how's this for a money quote: Jeff Fager, executive producer of the Sunday edition of "60 Minutes," said in a statement that "our plan was to run the story on [Oct.] 31, but it became clear that it wouldn't hold, so the decision was made for the Times to run it."

Furious J -

I seem to have misplaced your work phone number.

Can you shoot me an e-mail?

#25 kawfytawk

Not kidding - I guess I was being facetious, or maybe hopeful?

It would be nice to see this joke of a candidate stand up, act like a man, and stick to his Momma's dying request for "Integrity, integrity, integrity".

GWB has more of "what it takes" in his pinkie finger than Skerry has in his entire body.

Concur. Tick, tick, tick... This weekend will be... interesting.

I'm tempted to come into work Sunday night just for the high speed internet. Must get news and commentary from LGF.

#19 RightDad said -

I can't stand these UN, International crapola groups!!!
...

When will we be turning that property in NYC into Condo space. Imagine how much parking would be availible if we just send these guys packing. Maybe France will let them set up shop in Paris

Yes - but think of all the East side strip clubs and brothels that will lose a major source of revenue!!

The UN's campaign against Bush is in full swing, with Koffi swinging away at him last week and El Baradei this week.

You'd think they'd be busy defending themselves from massive evidence of their complicity in crimes against humanity & corruption on a global scale.

This does not jibe with the facts.

The National Review states:"These weapons were not there when US troops went to this site in 2003."

However, Fox News reported on April 4, 2003

Col. John Peabody, engineer brigade commander of the 3rd Infantry Division, said troops found thousands of 2-by-5-inch boxes, each containing three vials of white powder, together with documents written in Arabic that dealt with how to engage in chemical warfare.

Initial reports suggest the powder is an explosive, but tests are still being done, a senior U.S. official said. If confirmed, it would be consistent with what the Iraqis say is the plant's purpose, producing explosives and propellants.

Yes, I know the tests were not confrimed and have not been able to find anything that states they were confirmed.

Perhaps a way of attacking the MSM is for shareholders of their parent companies to file lawsuits claiming that their false, irresponsible, and biased reporting is costing the company money and therefore hurting shareholder value. They are clearly letting their political views interfere with good business techniques. Make the businesses pay, don't watch their shows or read their papers, boycott their advertisers, sell their stocks, and sue the crap out of them for irresponsible business practices.

Oooo! IAEA & NYT are so BUSTED!

OT: Protest Warrior
I tried to register, twice, but I've had no luck. Also, I emailed the address listed under 'contact' and still haven't gotten a response. What's up? I bet ya'll need all the help you can get come Nov. 3, and I'm tired of letting the L3 have all the fun.

#40 AI

So, I believe this may actually be reported by the other MSM's because it is NBC that is blowing the NYT out of the water...

One can only hope some savy network exec would look at the sinking ships of the NYTimes, LATimes, CBS, ABC and jump ship to show them as liars. That way they would get all the presitge, increased viewership, and more $$$...

Here's the Drudge story:

[Link: www.drudgereport.com...]

If anyone can tell me how this would be OK while the Sinclair Broadcasting thing was wrong, I'd love to hear it.

Drudge has a headline stating that CBS planned a 60 Minutes election eve broadcatst to put Bush in a crisis mode.
Just more objective reporting from kerry's favorite network.
And I wonder how this will really affect the election?

Just one more reason (as if Iran weren't enough) to relegate the IAEA to the diplomatic dust bin. Oh what the hell, chuck the UN in with El Baradei and his buffoons.

O.K. where's the RNC commercials ?

- That clearly states MSM, "Fake but True" perpetrates FRAUDS to topple a wartime president

- DNC Perpetrates FRAUDS to topple a wartime president

- UN Perpetrates FRAUDS to topple the first president in 8 years to call them to task

- Hollywood Perpetrates FRAUDS to topple a wartime president

- Don't be played for a sucker on Nov. 2

Waiting . . . waiting . . . let's have those commercials

I'm too young to remember the "League of Nations", I'm also a victim of publick skool. What finally killed L O N? Can we but hope?

#50 Larry

She obviously knew her son well to use her last breath to tell him to be HONEST...good grief...most parents would tell their kids how much they love them during those last few moments...it must have weighed heavy on her

OT - I apologize for going off here but VDH has an absolutely great piece Country at a Crossroads

I'm skipping to the first sentence of the last section entitled: What Kerry Portends

A Kerry presidency would not be a setback for our present winning strategy; it would be an unmitigated disaster.

We need a major revolution against the MSM in this country...I am tired of the tyranny and dictatorship of the MSM...I am tired of the fact that the NYT can recycle some old and bogus story, and just because they print it, everyone is supposed to act like it's some big deal...I think the NYT could run a front page story about Bush eating cereal for breakfast, written in ominous tones, and the entire media world would run with it as if it were the biggest scandal around...

First, we need to crush the Democrats at the ballot box...they deserve to be sent a message that their fraud and deception won't work...then we need to crush the MSM and send them a message that we want a truly free press in this country, not a propaganda organ for the Democratic party...

OT question.

Well fellow Lizariods... One week left and Bush up by 3 just like 2000. Are you nervous or do you think 2004 will swing better or worse then 2000?

phxthinker -

If it can be done to Sinclair for a single program, then it certainly should be done to CBS, for decades of this crap.

brothel

If a house of female prostitutes is called a "brothel", is a house of male prostitutes called a "sistel"?

The explosives were missing because of poor planning--they didn't identify ALL the weapons depots, didn't get to them quickly enough (3 weeks was too late--they should have airdropped marines on to the hot spots--if you are going fight a war, fight a war dammit) and didn't have enough troops to seal off ALL of them.

You don't go to war like this. You don't.

400 tons is, like, a lot. Half a pound can bring down a Jumbo. A quarter pound can bring down Elizabeth Edwards.

I think Bush is gonna surprise em all with a huge victory

What finally killed L O N?

Uh, WWII.

Hopefully there will be a happier ending to the UN.

Slightly OT

Is anyone in the MSM ever going to ask these simple question:

Senator Kerry, were you dishonorably discharged?

Senator Kerry, why won't you sign your 180 to clear yourself?

Senator Kerry, why haven't you and your lovely wife, fully released your tax records?

There are other questions, sure, involving excommunication, sedition, monetary impropriety, fraud, and consorting with terrorists and enemies of the state, but let's see if we can work on him answering the first three.

What finally killed L O N?

It boils down to it's impotence in stopping Hitler and the Japanese advance into Manchuria. Basically they had no power outside of making unenforcable resolutions. Sound famaliar?

#68 - In Depends With No Common Sense -

Hey Moron - have you actually bothered to read ANYTHING on this thread??!?

#53 alegrias
Their campaign against Bush is how they are defending themselves against the evidence of corruption. If kerry were to win the election, it would all be water under the bridge and business as usual.
And I'm sure heinz-kerry would find a way to profit from it and not have to pay any taxes.
Rmember they are the elite of society and our betters. In their eyes they deserve no less.
Now excuse me, I need to go to the range for some target practice. : )

#49 American Infidel
Our Corporation owns a repair facility in Poland, My Manager described Poland as "The Mexico of Europe" in terms of labor costs.

I'm nervous. Which leads me to the next question: How many are taking Wednesday off because you know you'll be up all night before?

Er, if I missed a sarcasm tag somewhere, my sincere apologies.

This may be slightly OT but thought it should get wider attention given Kerry's insistance that Iraq is not the problem

www.weeklystandard.com...] target="_blank">

The administration erred, he now claims, by turning its attention to Iraq.

But it turns out that Kerry felt entirely differently at the time. In an interview with John McLaughlin on November 16, 2001--just two months after September 11

The larger issue, John, is what happens afterwards. How do we now turn attention ultimately to Saddam Hussein?

The guy does not seem to know what he is pontificating on and now over a bogus report!

#73 Now that was funny!!!

Flush the Johns!!!
And the MSM while wre at it...

I've been saying for a long time now that El baradei is an enemy of the West. He has been deeply involved in Islamofascist attempts to develop nuclear weapons, and left the Egyptian government shortly before Sadat signed the peace agreement with Israel.

In effect, he has acted to protect the nuclear programmes of NoKorea, Iraq, and Iran. I am not surprised that he would use the IAEA to try to sink Bush.

Remember, we are at war, and most of the people who consider themselves our enemies are hiding it.

Ceterum censeo, Mecca delenda est.

Another story that's still making the rounds and keeping the el cubos feeling all pissy: Bush's battle of the bulge.

Did he or didn't he have words secretly put into his mouth by puppetmasters Cheney/Rove?

The explosives were missing because of poor planning

Look man, Bush did make some tactical blunders in Iraq but THIS IS NOT ONE OF THEM. The IAEA left before the war, DID NOT DESTROY THE WEAPONS...they just left them there unguarded for weeks before the US even got to the site. They are to blame for allowing them to disappear, and are in full CYA mode.

So how in the hell can you blame Bush for guarding weapons that were gone when he got there? That is a bit crazy dont you think...

A bank was robbed a week ago, they just got a new manager yesterday, will you blame the new manager for the robbery that happened before he was hired?? No, that is asinine.

I hate the Texas Rangers, because they are the stolen Washington Senators, but next Wednesday morning, I hope to be wearing a Rangers cap to work.

A subtle tweak to my desparing co-workers...

OT:

I don't know what to make of these guys; Republicans for Kerry

[Link: www.republicansforkerry04.com...]

This whole flap on this story seems really dumb to me and I was never interested in it. blah.

In other news, here's a DIFFERENT kind of missing explosive... some long lost footage for ya's:
Vintage clip: Rush Limbaugh on the Phil Donahue talk show (from Rush's tv show)...

#23 hcq

(G) Has a "CONFIDENTIAL" stamp at the top. If it's confidential, how did the NYT get a copy?

Hey! Was it typed on aCarona or Olympia or did they Word?

#68

Airdropped Marines ???
On the explosives ???

I hope you are not a European General.

/BTW, try reading all the threads about the subject before posting your silly propaganda.
I know, I know, you demonrats have only a few days to sell your commie-candidate to a Country that doesn't want him, but you should at least try to behave decently.

#66 BC

I have a gut feeling.

The MSM are sooo out of touch; and I think that includes the polling organizations. GWB will win convincingly. I vividly remember the weekend before the election in 1980, when ALL the media was calling the election "too close to call". Reagan ended up kicking Carter's behind and mopping the floor with it.

In the end, most American "get it", thank God!

BTW, Rush is leading off with this "fraud" today.

testing

This election could pivot on one well timed heckler shouting out a question to Kerry on his campaign tour.

A question that he can't answer without raising more questions. Like, "Were you honorably discharged?"

puppetmasters Cheney/Rove

I don't particularly care about the actual origin of Bush's policies, any more than I care about who supposedly wrote Shakespeare.

The end result is the same. Shakespeare's words, and Bush's policies, are beautiful, regardless of their origins.

If I were of a conspiratorial bent--which I'm not--I might say the IAEA was pushing for Kerry's election because he is likely to go easier on Iran's nuclear designs--and refocus attention on dismantling Israel's current capabilities

Of course by not showing your sources, you're not giving the story any credibility.

The timing of this may be questionable (I agree with that), but it does underscore the poor planning that took place. As proof of that, all of the high command that was involved is GONE. Only one left is bush, and we voters will take care of him on the second.

Good G-d, there are some stupid people here.

99% are highly intelligent, well-developed sense of humor, ability to think logically...

But a couple of you really need to get off the internet and enroll in high school for a do over.

EGAD.

Peter Gunn

Yes, basking in the warm approval of Dear Leader is something like basking in the still warm waters of the nearly 27C (81F) waters of the Gulf of Mexico at Jamaica Beach, Galveston island.

Been trying to talk my wife into one last trip to her grandmothers vacation trailer before the expected strong Pacific front (with perhaps some Canadian air) moves off the Texas coast around Novermber 2nd-4th and starts the big autumnal cooldown.

Thanks to a warm October (a record tying 10 days at or above 32C in October at Houston IAH) the Gulf is nearly 1C above seasonal norms at Galveston.

I'm going to Austin for the big Rail Road Commission Regulatory Expo next 2 days, but AVN still suggesting that Sunday may be a decent beach day.

What a difference 700 kilometers makes in Texas weather, as heavy rains continue in West Texas and West Central Texas. That rain could last much of the upcoming week, and will be enhanced by the mid level remnants of Pacific Tropical Depression 16E which made landfall near Los Mochis, MX this morning.

#89 Larry

I hope you are right...but do you the the fraud apparatus of the Dems was so pronounced back then? I have been reading reports from Ohio and Florida that there are tens of thousands of fraudulent absentee ballots being filed all over the place..

For the site that Fact Checks Your Ass(TM), a brief blurb in another blog, without citations, references, sources, etc. is worthy of its own thread? If the Administration is so confident this story is a fraud, why are they issuing weak denials from Bartlett:

"Asked about charges from the Kerry campaign that the White House had kept the disappearance secret, Dan Bartlett, the White House communications director said the White House had decided 'to get all the facts and find out exactly what happened in this case, and then whether there are other cases.'"

It's a week before the elections. If the Administration knows this story is a fraud, what on earth are they waiting for?

#78

Ooops! the link did not work.

The Mother Of All Flip-Flops
Today John Kerry says that Iraq is a distraction from the war on terror. What did he think about Iraq in 2001?

Why, according to one person, this HDX stuff couldn't have disappeared through

#76

I am taking the whole week off! I will be up late on Tuesday to make sure all is well and GWB is still our President. (I already had the vacation scheduled months ago and was not worried about getting enough sleep)

Quimmelton -

Yes, they think that Bush has let down Conservatives and Libertarians, in several important areas.

Therefore, they are going to protest that by voting for someone who will do ten thousand times worse in those areas, and in all others.

Idiots.

I wrote NBC News telling them I might consider returning to TV news shows (NBC) after reading they are trying to do the "right thing" with this story. I said it would be a test - if they can manage to blow the NYT story wide open and expose the fraud that it is, possibly
me and like minded people who abandoned TV news
after the CBS/Rather fraud, would gladly support your station if this trend continues (sorry to speak for others).
I think it worth a shot - to ignore them or their attempt to do the "right thing" would be a missed oppurtunity to possibly turn things around in this country. I did not mention W., just I want to see honest reporting return to the airwaves.

#76 Beblebrox
I have a bottle of 1995 Samual Addams Triple Bock that I have been saving for a special occasion.

The entire country was turned into one huge ammo dump by Saddam Hussein. If it went boom, made a lot of noise, could speed urban renewal without worrying about NEPA, SEQRA, and human rights, he procured (and used) it with gusto.

600,000 tons of the stuff. That's a whole lot of bang - paid for how? Oh, UNSCAM, in part, of course. With the IAEA deciding whether stuff that could be used to make nukes were actually dual use and not a threat. And that they could take a breather in the days after the invasion.

BTW, I think that if the poster had simply added a /sarcasm tag, it would be completely accurate. (re: 68)

Oh, and Hugh Hewitt has some more info:
[Link: www.hughhewitt.com...]

That other Dubya over at Belmont Clubalso has a good grasp on the story.

ShanNYC,

They are probably fact checking the stories right now...also, Kerry is out there STILL quoting the story as true, and just maybe they want him to hang himself a little bit longer before they show this as a fraud?

In a day or so there will probably hundreds of Kerry quotes on this accusing Bush of incompetence...imagine if after all these comments it turns out to be a fraud. It would be very damaging for Kerry...

#51 Dave the...  10/26/2004 08:54AM PST

"I'm tempted to come into work Sunday night just for the high speed internet. Must get news and commentary from LGF."

Know how you feel. Hard to get off on dial-up. Mainlining T-1, now that's a rush. Of course, you could always go cold turkey and unplug, drive up to your cabin by the lake and hunt snipe for the next week, come back when the whole lunatic clown show on stilts wrapped in sham stuffed into a farce is over and done with. Or just beginning. It's all an illusion anyway. But such an interesting one.

Hey, it is up to all of us to do our part. MSNBC just reported on the story again as if it is STILL true! Even FOX reported on the story but then added, (gee not much) that there was some debate as to WHEN the weapons went missing.

Get the word out, burn up the Internet.

I will be working Wed. but not Tues. I have a job that requires complete concentration and Tues I will be focused on the election. I predicted before, and will stick to it no matter what lies are spread this weekend, that W. gets more than 50%. He will be the first president to do so since his father in 1988. If he hits 52% he may pass Reagan's all time vote mark of 54 million in 1984. I am much more passionate about W. now than in 2000. I dislike Kerry much more than Gore. We are at war and are being subverted by the media/UN/democratic party. We must win, we will win, we are America.

#89 Larry

Actually, 1980 augurs well for Kerry, not Bush. Reagan was the challenger to the incumbent (Carter), just as Kerry is the challenger to Bush. According to Polling Report, a close race does not bode well for the incumbent; they argue that undecideds break 80/20 for the challenger.

#94 Proud subversive

will take care of

Yeah, you commies would take care of Freedom and free-market economy, we know.

And the American people know that.

VOTE for Kerry = disarm America, disarm the People.

#88 Poitiers-Lepanto -

I think our friend has been inspired by British strategy at the Somme and Gallipoli.

Or maybe he just read The Charge of the Light Brigade one time too many.

#105 Mr Kufr

In the dark blue bottle ?...yummy :-)

"The Iraqi explosives story is a fraud."

I'm not quite clear what this means. It seems everyone agrees (including a certain "former" LGFer who is in a position to know about such things) that high explosives were stored at the site; and that some quantity went missing. The question is of course when. It appears likely that the stuff went missing before the end of major combat operations (and possibly even before the war began), it which case it's hard to lay this at Bush's doorstep (not to mention the fact that this was one weapons site, in a country awash in weapons). So it seems the story isn't so much a "fraud"--meaning entirely invented--as it is, well, just sort of... stupid. It's true, but irrelevant.

#94 proud liberal

and we voters will take care of him on the second.

Yeeesh...doncha know nothin'.

Due to the high hurricane activity in the southern states this year the election has moved until the 4th.

LOL! It's not just a fraud. It's a COORDINATED attack.

I smell BLOWBACK...

This election will go down in history on so many levels, but the sweetest one will be how the trolls, the DNC, the LA Times, CBS, the NYT, Kos, DU, Spain, France, the UN, and many of us have underestimated our own electorate's capacity to SEE THROUGH what is going on here, react to it, and vote with their common sense.

Dick Cheney's election prediction will come to pass.

Watch.

dailyrecycler
Has a video of JfnKerry's claims against Bush on this and news story film from NBC in 2003 reporting the stuff was missing when soldiers arrived to guard it.
Also, the film of JfnKerry looks like he's using botox again and getting rid of some of the gray in his hair.
Ta-rha-za's little man toy is such a putz.

#76 bebelbrox:

I'm nervous. Which leads me to the next question: How many are taking Wednesday off because you know you'll be up all night before?

Not a chance. I definitely want to show up at work on Wednesday and gloat. I'll also offer to help pack bags for all those who said anything like "if Bush wins, I'm leaving the country".

58 Damian P

If anyone can tell me how this would be OK while the Sinclair Broadcasting thing was wrong, I'd love to hear it.

My "Newsweek" last week had an editorial disguised as a story about the Sinclair documentary, and pointed out that some Sinclair execs contribute to the Republican party, and concluded Sinclair is way out of line because they use the public airwaves to broadcast overtly partisan material.

I was so tempted to fire off a letter, but previous letters of mine to "Neweek" have never been published. So, Sinclair helping the Republicans using the public, federally controlled airwaves, bad, CBS, planning to pop something the Sunday night before Election Tuesday, in an overtly partisan effort to help the Demonrats, good.

BTW, I always knew "Newsweek" leaned a little left, but they seemed to try to have more balance that TIME, but in the last couple of months they have thrown any semblance of balance out the window, and now run unadulterated DNC talking points.

In my #117, make that "in which case...".

#97 mad_scientist

Voter fraud has always been a big problem ... it's not new. The election for JFK may have been accomplished, in some part, due to Daley securing Illinois for Kennedy.

A lot of dead people voted that day in Chicago; and a lot of people "voted early and voted often". Gee, that's a cliche that we've been hearing a lot lately, eh?

I think that even with all the fraud that will be committed (and never reported), that GWB will win handily. If it's close, then obviously, I'm wrong. But in either case, Bush will win. Not everyone in this country is gullible and dellusional (sp?).

#113 ShanNYC

they argue that undecideds break 80/20 for the challenger.

Except that this year, there are virtually NO undecideds. Less than 4 percent, actually, and less than W's current lead in the polls.

From Debka June 2004:

The most secret section of the latest report the International Atomic Energy Agency’s director Mohammed ElBaradai has drafted on Iran’s nuclear program is also the most embarrassing for the international nuclear watchdog. Our intelligence sources reveal exclusively that when inspectors arrived in Iran in mid-May and asked to revisit installations they saw in February or April, they were astonished to find empty spaces. When they questioned their Iranian escorts, they were greeted with blank stares. “What installations?” the officials asked.

From Debka May 2003:

As for Dr. ElBaradai, our sources report that, even before the Iraqi archives were examined, Washington had compiled a dossier on the chief nuclear inspector from discoveries made in the course of crises over the North Korean and Iranian nuclear weapons programs.

#115 Frank IBC

The demonrats are famous, anyway, for their good war-planning: Johnson did wonders in Nam,and Carter became, as it is well known, an honorary member of the Delta Force after his great operation in Iran.

That's why Coulter calls them the Party of premptive surrender.

/The trolls are so stupid that I must offend everybody and put a SARC OFF tag, sorry.

hs - yah and you're mother slept with Heinrich Himmler, that's must be how you learned to drone the same old lie believing suckers would believe it . . . eventually.

You need to pick up the pace, you're not tracking very well. This was answered yesterday, the embedded NBC Reporter with the

But tonight, NBCNEWS reported: The 380 tons of powerful conventional explosives were already missing back in April 10, 2003 -- when U.S. troops arrived at the installation south of Baghdad!

According to NBCNEWS, the HMX and RDX explosives were already missing when the American troops arrived.

"The U.S. Army was at the site one day after the liberation and the weapons were already gone," a top Republican blasted from Washington late Monday.

The International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors last saw the explosives in January 2003 when they took an inventory and placed fresh seals on the bunkers.

Link at Drudge -- Not proven wrong yet, and the DNC hates him

More Kerry Campaign blowing the U.N. - hs you're a U.N. leather boy .

Running on Empty

No time for Kerry's Europhile delusions

Terry McAwful's minions on the High Road

so if that means I end up sharing a cell at Sing-sing

There are some truly amazing views of the Hudson River and the Palisades from Sing-Sing. My advice to Clifford May is to plea-bargain in order to get a riverfront cell.

preemptive

PIMF

The Kerry Hive has officially started the clock in the final countdown to implosion: Lockhart Statement Regarding BC04 Efforts to Cover Up Bush's Failure to Secure Explosives in Iraq

"In a shameless attempt to cover up its failure to secure 380 tons of highly explosive material in Iraq, the White House is desperately flailing in an effort to escape blame. Instead of distorting John Kerry's words, the Bush campaign is now falsely and deliberately twisting the reports of journalists. It is the latest pathetic excuse from an administration that never admits a mistake, no matter how disastrous."

Lie, distract, distort...anything. Kerry is the last man in the U.S. who should running for the highest office.

comon Charles!!!

I stepped in troll poop on 94!!!

#129 Occasional reader

Have you been there a lot ?

:) :) :)

rush

cbs new's ed bradley working WITH the NYT to break this story, according to SeeBS's Dan Rather(spread lies)

Cliff May was former communications director for the RNC. Imagine that...

#132 Paxnhymn

That happens because the lefties have switched off the Light of Reason and we walk in the darkness of commie propaganda.

128

Actually, I quoted a Fox news report. And they are Fair and Balanced.

#113 ShanNYC

Well, that's how YOU see it - granted. I would probably say the same thing were I a Skerry supporter; but I am not, never will be and never could be (ex-Democrat that I am.)

400 tons is, like, a lot. Half a pound can bring down a Jumbo. A quarter pound can bring down Elizabeth Edwards.

No dude! Like, Elizabeth Edwards can down a whole lot of quarter pounders!

Like, whoooaaa, dude!!!

Bush lied kids di...

wrong thread?

Only one left is bush, and we voters will take care of him on the second.

How many times are you going to vote?

AI

He is fact check'in the hell out of those MSM morons...

Cliff May used to be an editor at the New York Times Magazine in 1980 ( I was working as a freelance fact checker then.) He was a smart , energetic guy. I am so glad that neither he nor I work for them anymore.

Who is the Traitor flirting with in this picture ? Maybe he's found a younger, hotter billionaires ?

If I win this election baby, it's you and me...

/photoshop on steroids

#133 P-L:

Have you been there a lot ?

Those records are sealed, man, and I don't have to answer any of your fascist questions!

(Actually, I grew up nearby.)

Monkey 61

Of course add the IEAE to the list...

ElBaradaei's wife, who is Iranian, has connections to the Iranian mullahs...

One wonders why the mainstream press won't ask this question..."If ammunition can disappear prior to the start of the Iraq war, why can't WMD also disappear?

The newest revelations would convey to us the following:

The major media, NY TIMES, CBS, ABC, WaPo, have demonstrated that they will manipulate, lie, deceive the American public in order to regain power for the Democratic Party.

President Bush is looking more and more right these days...

Another bit OT

And what's this crap with Kerry and Lockhart and the Demon-NC crying and whining and moaning about Bush not apologizing for mistakes ???

When's Kerry going to apologize for libeling his fellow VietNam vets with false accusations? When is he going to apologize for being a propaganda machine for the Viet Cong who totured his fellow vets who were still in Hanoi while he was opening his cakehole in front of the Senate?

If anybody needs to apologize to this entire country, it's John Kerry! I fervently hope and pray (and fully expect) that Kerry will be as significant as a mosquito on an elephant's hindquarters on November 3rd.

BTW, Rush is now pointing out that Kerry talked about "ammo dumps" in one of the debates. Hey, Senator, just who the hell are YOU collaborating with? What did You know; and when did You know it?

New Swifty TV movie:

[Link: www2.swiftvets.com...]

#137 hs- you mean THIS Fox Story ? From Yesterday ?

And that's what happened at Al Qaqaa. I'd actually been there in February of 2003. A desperate Iraqi regime had brought a bunch of reporters to the site, which the United States had said contained prohibited weapons. We didn't see any. But we did see piles of missiles, which could do real harm in the wrong hands.

Fox Embedded Reporter - "Tell me something I don't know. "

More from FOX on you and your bastard brothers - from your mother sleeping with Heinrich Himmler - your mother was so kind to help populate ACORN

Fraud File: Enter the Nutcracker

#76 beblebrox

I too am a tad anxious. I put in a leave request for Nov. 3rd weeks ago in anticipation of a l-o-o-n-n-g-g night on the 2nd.

Limbaugh just blasted this news. Scathing commentary.

From my perspective, the BIG news on this front is the deliberate attempt by a U.N. official to influence the election.

And I hope/pray it blows up in their faces.

Rush just played a sound bite from 10/08 of Kerry talking about the missing explosives. Thought it was a breaking story ?

Also, I think I just read a story about El Baradei wanting to date his memo 10/08/04 ...hhhmmm can't find that link now, well I'm pretty damn sure it was what I read. This should be BIG !!

OT [Link: worldnetdaily.com...]

Peaceful Palestinians. This proves it.

151 FuzzyBunnySlippers

Ha, I did the same ! I figure either way it goes I don't want to share the day with my LLL co workers.
I printed off the Cal Thomas "Ignorance Is Bliss" ed.
and passed it around at work - thought I'd make some converts - no such luck.

I just hope that Cliff May can come up with some corroboration, which would put him a few steps ahead of CBS news in the first place.

We're familiar with the NY Times story and the IAEA accusations that the "missing" explosives were looted from the Al-Qaqaa military base
due to US negligence in securing the facility.

If I were a guerilla "looter" and I was planning such an operation from a military standpoint, here's what the task would require:

Assumptions:
-Each "looter" could haul comfortably about 25 pounds per trip to a truck. (of course after 12 hours that would require superhuman endurance)
-I'd allow 5 minutes per round trip to the truck
-Work day 12 hours
-assume security breaks down 1 week after war starts (that allows 2 weeks before the US troops arrive)
-each pickup truck can carry about 1/4 ton of explosives (I did a quick calculation based upon the dimensions and weight of a block of C-4 and the dimensions of an average small pickup) and it takes 15 minutes to either load or unload the truck.
-the secure hiding place for 380 tons of explosives is 30 minutes away.
Calculations:
-380 tons / [((12hrs/dayX60min/hr) / (5 min per load)) X (25 lbs per load) X 14 days] = 15 loaders X 2 = 30 loaders/unloaders
-30 loaders/unloaders times 200% for breaks, rest, inefficiency, etc. = 60 loaders and unloaders.
-380 tons / [(12hrs/day / 1 hr/round trip,load,unload) X (.25 tons per trip) X 14 days] = 10 trucks and drivers X 1.5 (contigency) = 15 trucks and drivers.
-4 trucks + 10-15 men to supply water, food and other logistical requirements
Total = 19-20 trucks, 90 men working continuously for two weeks to "loot" facility
Bottom line this operation would take the resources of AN ENTIRE COMPANY (approx. 100 men) OVER TWO WEEKS, good Intel to know exactly where the "right" explosives were hidden and a means of breaching huge steal doors and concrete of an ASP.

CPT Ian Dodgson, USAR (Ret.)

I posted this info on another thread, but I'm adding it here:

The original NY Times article that broke the story yesterday contained the following passages:

"A senior Bush administration official said that during the initial race to Baghdad, American forces 'went through the bunkers, but saw no materials bearing the I.A.E.A. seal.' It is unclear whether troops ever returned.

By late 2003, diplomats said, arms agency experts had obtained commercial satellite photos of Al Qaqaa showing that two of roughly 10 bunkers that contained HMX appeared to have been leveled by titanic blasts, apparently during the war. They presumed some of the HMX had exploded, but that is unclear.

Other HMX bunkers were untouched. Some were damaged but not devastated. I.A.E.A. experts say they assume that just before the invasion the Iraqis followed their standard practice of moving crucial explosives out of buildings, so they would not be tempting targets. If so, the experts say, the Iraqi must have broken seals from the arms agency on bunker doors and moved most of the HMX to nearby fields, where it would have been lightly camouflaged - and ripe for looting."

So, even the original NY Times article indicates that these munitions were destroyed or moved, and possibly stolen, before or during the war. And the article also quotes the Bush administration as saying that the munitions seemed to have been gone already when the first troops got there (i.e. no IAEA seals).

So I cannot understand why this is being spun as a big booboo for Bush, even just based on the NY Times article itself.

So here's the enemies list (in no particular order):

ABC
NBC
CBS
CNN
MSNBC
CNBC
PBS
NPR
DNC
PLO
KLA
Al Qaeda
CAIR
Columbia U.
France
Germany
Russia
The St. Louis Cardinals
and now
IAEA

Reminds me of a Simpson's episode when Barney makes Moe's enemies list...

#146 Occasional Reader

OK OK, the records are sealed.

Are you running for President in 08 ? You have the credentials.

#155 Leftover54

Only one treatment for BDS - Dr. Krauthammer prescribed it back in 2003.

Thorazine

Just make Jon Stewart the new CBS anchor when Dan Rather retires.

The MSM already has one foot in that grave.

137 hs

Sorry to be blunt, but this shows your total ignorance of Chembio weapons and explosives, and it also exposes yet another pitiful attempt to divert the attention from the issue at hand, which is the U.N, the MSM and the DNC are in colusion to alter the outcome of the election!!!

point 1.

"thousands of 2x 5 boxes, each containing vials of white powder"

...The faux report stated "380 tons"...these are vials...chembio pal! Also...tactical high explosives normally do not come in powder form...to hard to handle

point 2. the report you name doesn't give the location, and is probably one of a half a million weapoms caches NOT at AL-Qaada!!

You, as your MSM buddies, fraudulently used a story to suit you're own end...
In other words...you're a liar!!

BZZZ!!! Wrong answer! thanks for playin!

Linda Vester is now talking about the fraud!!!

Listening to Rush - at the break ABC news plays a sound bite of JFK (spit>> - no, ralph>>) criticizing remarks made by Dick Cheney that the war in Iraq has been a success. The bite ends with a "laugh track",
the audience laughing their asses off !!!
Isn't this treasonous ?? If not, what is ?? Holding the sitting VP of the USA during a war as a laughing stock,
particularly comments concerning the success of our military in this war effort ??

WHAT THE F..K !!! JFK is a traitor, always was, always will be.

157 sapper,

nice work. That does make the whole "looters took it when we weren't looking" story seem completely ridiculous.
Looters make off with 380 tons of explosives!
I didn't believe it before, but now it seems completely ludicrous.

I wish Reaganite would come back.

This kind of stuff is right up his alley.

#76

I'm nervous. Which leads me to the next question: How many are taking Wednesday off because you know you'll be up all night before?

That brings back some memories..in 2000, I was up all night, then called in sick to work the next morning.

See? Even then, the Democrats were slowing down the economy and lowering productivity.

Remember these?:

"..too close to call..."
"Florida, Florida, Florida"
"you don't have to get snippy, Governor Bush.."

mich-again #166--

Did you happen to also read post #158? According to The New York Times (the original article that appeared yesterday):

"Other HMX bunkers were untouched. Some were damaged but not devastated. I.A.E.A. experts say they assume that just before the invasion the Iraqis followed their standard practice of moving crucial explosives out of buildings, so they would not be tempting targets. If so, the experts say, the Iraqi must have broken seals from the arms agency on bunker doors and moved most of the HMX to nearby fields, where it would have been lightly camouflaged - and ripe for looting."

So, not too hard to loot--according to that unimpeachable source, the NY Times.

68 independent_with_common_sense

Half a pound can bring down a Jumbo. A quarter pound can bring down Elizabeth Edwards.

The only thing that can bring down Elizagirth is fresh, warm, beckoning, cheesecake...

#161 Havoc

He is great !! Did you connect and is there a connection between Streisands letter and JFK's (ralph>>) debate references to Bush and his logging company ???

...clearly have much to gain if we go to war against Iraq,'' the logging industry

- Barbra Streisand

#167 Ed Moran
Shoot him an email. I miss him too.
:(

I just called the NY Times around 1:30 EST at (212) 556-1234 . Went through menu and arrived at a live person on the International News desk.

I asked if they were going to post a promiment retraction of their "missing explosives in Iraq" story.

The International News Desk guy said "They are sticking by their story based on the facts they have."

Weren't there LLL threats to sue Sinclair Broadcasting for showing the ex-POW's testimony?

LAWSUIT TIME

against the NY Times

#169 from your quote:

If so, the experts say, the Iraqi must have broken seals from the arms agency on bunker doors and moved most of the HMX to nearby fields, where it would have been lightly camouflaged - and ripe for looting."

So, if the Iraqi military went through the trouble of removing the HMX and RDX from the bunkers to put them in the fields under light camo, why not go through the only slightly more difficult task of removing the explosives from the site completely.

You see, this makes no sense. Various sensors can see through light camo, so putting it out in the open doesn't add any protective value. But, moving it somewhere else- perhaps under the cover of darkness would. And as others have already calculated, it would not be all that difficult to accomplish in a short order.

Also, if the Iraqis were so quick to break IAEA seals on high explosives in order to move them to open sites, why wouldn't they be quick to move their WMD or other programs? This fails the sniff test. Again.

#174 lawhawk:

My point wasn't that this is the way it actually happened. My point was that even the NEW YORK TIMES, in its original article, was admitting it was possible, even highly likely, that the material was not even in the facility when we arrived there for the first time.

From yesterday's NYT article, two bunkers at Al Qadaa were blown to bits by U.S. strikes in "titanic explosions" as shown on a civilian satellite photo.
Think that was about 380-500 tons of boom?

Any lizardoid should cancel any subscription to the NYT. They have no credibility. Let the Moonbats carry them financially.

And why will Mohammed El Baradei not be indicted for libel?

His "leak" was deliberately false and malacious...

#173

Lawsuit ?

[Link: www.nytco.com...]

[Link: www.cjr.org...]

The only basis of standing is to have owned stock and sue the Board and the NYT Executives for "recklessly" devaluing shareholders value by perpetrating a series of willful frauds.

Find a firm in the Trial Lawyers association that has deep deep pockets to front a Shareholders suit, and good luck, I hope you succeed.

Well the big bad explosives have been 'blowin out of the water..thank you all anti msm..including you dumb bastards , ummm nice folks at nbc. Actaully I must laud NBC (I will capitalize when respect is deserved)

Now on to "Mora Bora" with none other then Mickey Kaus, ummm I think Mickey is a kerry voter, too.

Mora Bora!
Boots on ground, foot in mouth.
By Mickey Kaus

Updated Monday, Oct. 25, 2004, at 8:00 PM PT
the Kerry camp may regret calling attention to that McLaughlin transcript. Earlier in the interview--which, remember, took place two months after 9/11, in the middle of our Afghan campaign against the Taliban--McLaughlin asks Kerry "What do we have to worry about [in Afghanistan]?" Here's the last part of Kerry's answer:

I have no doubt, I've never had any doubt -- and I've said this publicly -- about our ability to be successful in Afghanistan. We are and we will be. The larger issue, John, is what happens afterwards. How do we now turn attention ultimately to Saddam Hussein? How do we deal with the larger Muslim world? What is our foreign policy going to be to drain the swamp of terrorism on a global basis? [Emphasis added]

Wait--I thought shifting the focus to Saddam was a "diversion" and distraction from the fight against Al Qaeda! Not, apparently, when Kerry saw an opportunity to score political points by advocating it. [But would he have rushed to war in Iraq without a plan to win the peace!-ed. Maybe not. But, given Kerry's recent he-took-his-eye-off-the-ball rhetoric, it's embarrassing that he brought up pivoting to Iraq "now" long before the Afghan campaign was over--indeed, when the Tora Bora battle against bin Laden's men had barely begun.]

[Link: slate.msn.com...]

Semi-OT (I'll try to bring it around)

While vigilance is needed until November 3 (and possibly beyond,) there are things to remember about this and possibly other October surprises:

1. When Bush was ambushed with the DUI, he was an unknown quantity; he is known now; therefore the anxiety raising potential of this and other sneak attacks is much lower.


2. Many people have already voted, blunting the effect on the vote.


3. When this was done to Ah-nuld, the reaction appeared to move the undecideds toward him.


4. In the Electoral college, with at least three (WI, IA, NM) and as many as five (MN, HI) Gore states in serious jeopardy of flipping to Bush, Gore has to take both OH and FL to win. And you know FL Panhandle Republicans want as much "revenge" for 2000 as the LLL.


5. Rasmussen in today's tracking said that votes have ossified; pretty much 98% of voters have decided and aren't going to budge.


6. The blogosphere is the unpaid fact checker and rapid response force that hasn't been there before.


7. The WaPo and NBC won't pass up a chance to make the NYT and CBS look bad. (The enemy of my enemy is my friend.)

[Update: while I was typing this, I heard a Kerry sound bite on the news saying that Bush isn't offering evidence the weapons were gone before they got there. Senator Kerry, how about you give me evidence that you're not beating your wife?]

#37 Furious J

At a John Edwards rally in St. Petersburg on Saturday, white people held "African-Americans for Kerry-Edwards" placards.

Maybe they're from Mozambique, like Ter-(Gin-Soaked)-Raisin.

<snicker>

Like you mommie told you johnny..."Integrity, Integrity, Integrity".

You've never had any...even then.

Kerry is still hammering this lie in his speeches today.
And the "folks" seated behind him are nodding like kool-aid swilling bobble head dolls.

#70 Frank IBC

What finally killed L O N?

You said WWII, but IIRC, the U.S. never joined the LoN, which pretty much doomed it from the start. Besides, I doubt there were any juicy oil-for-food deals back then, so the French probably had little interest in the LoN either.

#173

The only basis of standing is to have owned stock and sue the Board and the NYT Executives for "recklessly" devaluing shareholders value by perpetrating a series of willful frauds. Find a firm in the Trial Lawyers association that has deep deep pockets to front a Shareholders suit, and good luck, I hope you succeed.

It happened woth Merck and VIOXX...it can happen with the NYT.

#181

Newsflash:

Kerry Changes Story about "when did he quit Beating Tereeza?"

Tereeza changes story about "gin soaked raisins" and Gin soaked "remedies".

Sorry guys and gals, a little late to thread, SOP...

In post #54:

Col. John Peabody, engineer brigade commander of the 3rd Infantry Division, said troops found thousands of 2-by-5-inch boxes, each containing three vials of white powder, together with documents written in Arabic that dealt with how to engage in chemical warfare.

The facility that the expolsives in question were stored was originaly searched by the 2nd Bde, 101st Airborne and nothing of interest was there. NBCnews had an enbedded with them and that was confirmed last night
by NBC... Wrong unit, wrong location...

Mark

#183

Like you mommie told you johnny..."Integrity, Integrity, Integrity". ...You've never had any...even then.

You must be refering to ( here comes the age give away ) the 7up commercials... Never had it, never will...

Mark

If this is for real...the anonymous tip isn't doing us any good. This needs full exposure to the light of day. The MSM won't give it that kind of play unless it is forced to do so.

Hey guys and gals...I really stirred hings up at the NYT message board...I'll see if I can do the same at CBS..

[Link: finance.yahoo.com...]

Later

OT --

Everyone in San Antonio: How about a meet-up? I'm thinking Wed, 3 Nov for a celebration. Hit my name above to email me!

The problem is the 'missing explosives could have gone to terrorists' will stay up whilst the truth will reported as 'right wing Bush supporters claim it's a fake, but they lie, lie, le'.

For those that say the MSM lost all credibility earlier with Memo-gate and now this, remember that is with US they have lost credibility, but not with the moronic "swing voter" who still thinks the MSM is holy gospel.

#172, NuclearTinkerbell

Yeah, I wish reaganite would come back, too...

(Hey reaganite, LGF's won the Washington Post Best International Blog award now! Pretty good for a "hate site," eh? And we're talking about explosives too!)

Already going good at Viacom.

We are there also.

[Link: finance.messages.yahoo.com...]

Sorry, Charles, this ain't the Daily Kos trying to figure out fonts to cover CBS' ass.

[Link: www.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Wanna bet Cliffie's source is from the Bush Re-election campaign, not the government?

Oh yeah, they're one and the same thing.

Got any more ridiculous rumours to trumpet on your shill-blog, Charles?

#181 Lightning man

Thank you for helping me keep a grip. I'm signed up to volunteer the last 72 hours in my state though in a Dem area--it'll be worth the shock value to Jim Moran (D-ranged B.ush S.yndrome artist) alone.

And I hope any evangelicals who sat this out last time because of the DUI story come out to show W the looove now that they know he's a rock and the devil's JFK incarnate.

Nodrog is back. He must've been busy looking through the garbage at Swift Boat Vets HQ.

So where's this Mohammad J. Abbas fellow? I had to laugh at "General Director of the Planning & Following Up Directorate." The phrase sounds like a Dickens novel reject.

Accroding to a report today on MSNBC, the NBC embed witht he 101st says the Company was on its way to Baghdad, stayed at Al-Qaqa for a day, but conducted no search of the facility:

Amy Robach: And it's still unclear exactly when those explosives disappeared. Here to help shed some light on that question is Lai Ling. She was part of an NBC news crew that traveled to that facility with the 101st Airborne Division back in April of 2003. Lai Ling, can you set the stage for us? What was the situation like when you went into the area?

Lai Ling Jew: When we went into the area, we were actually leaving Karbala and we were initially heading to Baghdad with the 101st Airborne, Second Brigade. The situation in Baghdad, the Third Infantry Division had taken over Baghdad and so they were trying to carve up the area that the 101st Airborne Division would be in charge of. As a result, they had trouble figuring out who was going to take up what piece of Baghdad. They sent us over to this area in Iskanderia. We didn't know it as the Qaqaa facility at that point but when they did bring us over there we stayed there for quite a while. We stayed overnight, almost 24 hours. And we walked around, we saw the bunkers that had been bombed, and that exposed all of the ordinances that just lied dormant on the desert.

AR: Was there a search at all underway or did a search ensue for explosives once you got there during that 24-hour period?

LLJ: No. There wasn't a search. The mission that the brigade had was to get to Baghdad. That was more of a pit stop there for us. And, you know, the searching, I mean certainly some of the soldiers head off on their own, looked through the bunkers just to look at the vast amount of ordnance lying around. But as far as we could tell, there was no move to secure the weapons, nothing to keep looters away. But there was – at that point the roads were shut off. So it would have been very difficult, I believe, for the looters to get there.

Further, Miklaszewski reports today:

"Then in March shortly before the war began, the I.A.E.A. conducted another inspection and found that the H.M.X. stockpile was still intact and still under seal. But inspectors were unable to inspect the R.D.X. stockpile and could not verify that the R.D.X. was still at the compound. Pentagon officials say elements of the 101st airborne did conduct a thorough search of several facilities around the Al QaQaa compound for several weeks during the month of April in search of W.M.D. They found no W.M.D. And Pentagon officials say it's not clear at that time whether those other elements of the 101st actually searched the Al QaQaa compound."

[Via Atrios...don't shoot the messenger]

What it all comes down to is: 300-400 tons of some pretty nasty sh*t is missing, and all the Administration has to peddle is the possibility, more and more remote, that it didn't happen on our watch.

So, how is this story a fraud, again?

Wouldn't the IAEA have a standard form that someone like "Mohammad J. Abbas" would fill out to declare missing things?

It might be interesting to compare.

[Link: www.iraqwatch.org...]

The inability of Saddam to declare what Iraq had done with their stockpiles of HMX was one of the reasons Saddam was declared in breach of UN Resolutions!

Gordon is demonstrating his unsufficatable insufferability by setting records for existing with his head up his ass. Gordon is a tiresome shitbird who by example gives definition to the fringes of a futile position.

Rush Limbaugh hypothesised today that Kerry had advance knowledge of the NYT canard based on the fact that he was talking about "unguarded ammo dumps" in the October 8 debate. That is strong circumstantial evidence, but no proof.

Here's the actual proof that Kerry knew: During the first debate on September 30, Kerry repeatedly talked about Bush's failure to guard "nuclear facilities".
Some had wondered back then what he meant by that. Now we know. Kerry had advance knowledge of this story, at least as far back as September 30.

202 Gtrolldon..

What in the hell are you spewing about now??Face it!! The NYT and CBS are both busted as being partisan, and the beauty is that they wrere busted by their own...NBC!!! "muktata" El-Baradaei leaked the info...there is a paper trail back to his islamofascist arse!

The Dems are cold busted!! And you are not big enough to face the fact that you have been shilling for the bad guys all along...FOOL!

How's it feel to actually know for a fact that you will have been on the wrong side of history??...loser

You won't be invited to W's REinauguration troll.

#207, Shan NYC. Went to your link. Have you?

Gymnast: I suppose your issue is that is comes from John Kerry's Blog.
Well, even though that is a transcript, with no editorializing, here's a link to an MSNBC story with the same info.

What it all comes down to is: 300-400 tons of some pretty nasty sh*t is missing, and all the Administration has to peddle is the possibility, more and more remote, that it didn't happen on our watch.

Yes, that is exactly what it comes down to... if you are a complete Kerry shill without the intellectual capability to do anything other than parrot the Kerry campaign's talking point.

If one has a few more brain cells active than that, I think the wisest interpretation is: We have no way of knowing for sure what was at al-Qaqaa or when, and therefore should not buy into anyone's spin.

But of course, that would require patience and reason. And you just can't bash Bush with patience and reason.

#212 paxnhymn:

Gordo won't address the leak from IAEA. He'll just continue spewing the "story" like all good LLL trollbots.

Kerry's brazen attempt to move forward with an ad despite that the story has been debunked, tells me that the Kerry campaign has had assurances from all the networks except NBC that they will not retract their bogus story.

What a fricken sham...the liberal media is unembarassable.

#214,Shan NYC. In the MSNBC story there is a paragraph about an IAEA vist to Iraq before the First Gulf War to disassemble weapons of mass destruction. It kind of took something away from the story. Do you suppose this was a scissors and paste error on NBCs part?

# 211

Re: Kerry and comment about unguarded "nuclear facilities."

From a BBC version of the missing explosives story here:

It is not the first warning the IAEA has given about potentially dangerous material going missing.

Two weeks ago the IAEA warned equipment and materials that could be used to make nuclear weapons had disappeared in Iraq since the invasion.

#204 alegrias

Glad to help. One thing to remember: those who for whatever reason support President Bush (Republicans, post 9-11 Democrats, anti-Islamofascists of any stripe, supporters of Israel who don't reflexively vote Democrat) are being subjected to a psychological operations campaign (organized or otherwise) to discourage your vote. The aggregate of the indicators point toward a Bush victory, but you wouldn't know it by the seizing every day by the MSM of the one poll out of five that shows Kerry up by one or even. It's not in the bag, but believe me, Kerry would trade places with Bush any day. The game is not just being played on Kerry's territory; some of Kerry's territory appears to have been taken. And if Hawaii can go wobbly, so can any other lean Kerry state.

#189 Rayra: What about the referendum? Is that going to happen?

#218 Gymnast:

Don't follow. How does the fact that IAEA disassembled Saddam's stockpile in the early 90s take away from the story; if anything, it goes to the point that the agency is not as clueless as some perhaps would like to believe.

I think the timing of the missing explosives is certainly up in the air (isn't that the headline on the MSNBC site?); however, that does not mean the story has been "debunked" in any sense.

Charles, and any others having serious interest:

Related information, Very Highly Recommended -
I just received this book, "Treachery" by Bill Gertz, and am still reading it.
This supersedes any spy-adventure fictional work; it's real and ongoing.

I can't type all sorts of quotes for you, but here is a list of the chapters -
1. The French Connection
2. Germany: Tyrants, Terrorists, and Other Valued Customers
3. Russia: Sleeping With the Enemy
4. The North Korean Nuclear Threat
5. Iran Goes Nuclear
6. China: Lies and Deception
7. Libya and Syria: The New "Axis of Evil"
8. The United States: Proliferation Negligence
9. The United Nations' Failures
10. The Ultimate Proliferation Nightmare
Plus Conclusion and Appendix.

Mr. Gertz, as always, writes well, is amazingly well informed, and has an abundance of good sources.

Test!

#222 Shan NYC

Here's how it has been debunked. The point of the story is that the armed forces (a k a George W. Bush) did not guard this stockpile of explosives from being looted. Until someone can prove they were even there on his watch, then the fact that they didn't guard the stockpile is irrelevant.

If anyone pursues and proves the UN complicity rumor, this will be more than debunked. It may be the beginning of the end of the UN, at least on US soil.

#222, Shan NYC. BEFORE the first gulf war. Disasemble NEUCLEAR materials. I didn't write the story, I just read it, You cited it. You explain it.

In case you missed it Operation Orange -- TheBelmontClub

as always extremely insightful on what happened to the RXD HE

The White House needs to be on TV right now screaming their heads off. They have not handled the earlier CBS fraud nor this very well. Unless Ken Melhman, Scott McClellan, or somebody the MSM has to listen to starts yelling, this isn't going to get covered except on Fox.

#228 kjo:

The problem with the Bush admin is the need to appear "above the fray" at all times. I suspect it comes from Karen Hughes and Karl Rove.

Well, the 3ID was there on 3 Apr. That should end all discussion until someone can show that the explosives were there before that date, and that they disappeared after that date due to looting.

The 101st would have no need of searching if 3ID had already done so and found no IAEA marked stockpiles.

The other main point is that the NYT and CBS were once again prepared to go with a story to trash Bush, and the U.S. military, without bothering to do the proper research.

I'm just a lurking hit and run type. That said, I believe its time for the Kerry camp to take a mulligan on the "looters" theory.

My .02, lawyers, campaign sycophants, and leaches don't do much math or logistics or this "theory" wouldn't have left the DNC conference call.

This from [Link: www.captainsquartersblog.com...]

Insurgents Hauling 380 Tons Of Explosives Not Exactly A Covert Act
Unfortunately for the New York Times, no one gave a thought about the logistics of the notion that small bands of insurgents made off with 380 tons of explosives under the noses of the Coalition with no one noticing. CQ reader and retired Army Reserve Captain Ian Dodgson got paid to think about logistics, and he did some "cocktail-napkin" math that escaped the geniuses at the Paper of Record:

We're familiar with the NY Times story and the IAEA accusations that the "missing" explosives were looted from the Al-Qaqaa military base due to US negligence in securing the facility.

If I were a guerilla "looter" and I was planning such an operation from a military standpoint, here's what the task would require:

Assumptions:

-Each "looter" could haul comfortably about 25 pounds per trip to a truck. (of course after 12 hours that would require superhuman endurance)

-I'd allow 5 minutes per round trip to the truck

-Work day 12 hours

-assume security breaks down 1 week after war starts (that allows 2
weeks before the US troops arrive)

-each pickup truck can carry about 1/4 ton of explosives (I did a quick calculation based upon the dimensions and weight of a block of C-4 and the dimensions of an average small pickup) and it takes 15 minutes to either load or unload the truck.

-the secure hiding place for 380 tons of explosives is 30 minutes away.

Calculations:

-380 tons / [((12hrs/dayX60min/hr) / (5 min per load)) X (25 lbs per load) X 14 days] = 15 loaders X 2 = 30 loaders/unloaders

-30 loaders/unloaders times 200% for breaks, rest, inefficiency, etc. = 60 loaders and unloaders.

-380 tons / [(12hrs/day / 1 hr/round trip,load,unload) X (.25 tons per trip) X 14 days] = 10 trucks and drivers X 1.5 (contingency) = 15 trucks and drivers.

-4 trucks + 10-15 men to supply water, food and other logistical
requirements

Total = 19-20 trucks, 90 men working continuously for two weeks to "loot" facility.

Bottom line this operation would take the resources of AN ENTIRE COMPANY (approx. 100 men) OVER TWO WEEKS, good Intel to know exactly where the "right" explosives were hidden and a means of breaching huge steel doors and concrete of an ASP.

And all of this would have to be done in an area with numerous intel overflights that would be looking for exactly this kind of activity in the combat zone, and not get noticed at all. Like so much of what the New York Times, CBS, and the Kerry campaign feeds us ... it just doesn't add up.

I think the Bush campaign knows something to make Mr. Ed look bad is coming very soon on this matter. Just keep the mouth shut and wait...

#225 Lightning Man:

Exactly: the timing of missing explosives is unclear; ergo, the story (this happened on our watch) has not been debunked.

It may potentially be debunked, although I suppose another tact the opposition may make is that the explosives were at least accounted for before the start of the War; so, in fact, if missing explosives are an indicator, the War has made us less safe.

Not that I'd touch that argument with a ten-foot pole, but, hey, in an ad with some menacing music and symbolic animals (I guess wolves are taken) the idiots who are apprently still undecided might be swayed.

Joel, get off the babysitter. Its over now.

Topic Wrap up Commentary -

-- January 2003 IAEA Inspects Al Qa Qaa, notices 280 tons of RDX HE and puts it seals on Bunkers source link

-- February 2003 pannicky Saddam Hussein regime takes Journalists to Al Qa Qaa -- no High explosives --- but did see piles of missiles Source link

-- April 2003 101st Airborne passes through Al Qa Qaa with embedded NBC Reporter no High Explosives source link

-- 1 Week earliear 3rd Infantry Div. Passed Through source link

-- Sapper above #157 does the math noting it would take a Division of 100 men and 20 trucks, 2 weeks in 12 hour days to remove that much material.

-- Wretchard of the Belmont Club lays the blame for "Criminal Neglect" at the correct doorstep.

Kerry, apart from being a liar, is also a flipflopping Monday morning quarterback. He is bashing Bush for not coralling the explosives. Were it up to Kerry, we wouldn't have even been in Iraq to find or dispose of them. He is such a fraud. Like he would do better as Commander in Chief?

There won't be much of a volunteer army under Kerry. No self-respecting officer or non-com is going serve with an acknowleded traitor that sold out his comrades. We'll wind up having conscription under Kerry, because that's the only way he will have to fill the ranks.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

I know how much you guys love this site, but... [Link: www.dkosopedia.com...] you guys REALLY need to do your research better.

MSNBC reporters are stepping forward to confirm that they were in that facility as troops passed through on the way to baghdad and it was littered with weapons just waiting to be stolen.

quote from KOS
The winger attempt to redirect blame -- that troops at the facility found it emptied of the explosives when they reached it, post invasion -- have been decisively discredited by the embed reporter travelling with the 101st Airborne Division -- the unit who first arrived at that faciliy. (MSNBC video link, though it doesn't work on my Mac)
[Link: www.shadowtv.com...]

Amy Robach: And it's still unclear exactly when those explosives disappeared. Here to help shed some light on that question is Lai Ling. She was part of an NBC news crew that traveled to that facility with the 101st Airborne Division back in April of 2003. Lai Ling, can you set the stage for us? What was the situation like when you went into the area?

Lai Ling Jew: When we went into the area, we were actually leaving Karbala and we were initially heading to Baghdad with the 101st Airborne, Second Brigade. The situation in Baghdad, the Third Infantry Division had taken over Baghdad and so they were trying to carve up the area that the 101st Airborne Division would be in charge of. As a result, they had trouble figuring out who was going to take up what piece of Baghdad. They sent us over to this area in Iskanderia. We didn't know it as the Qaqaa facility at that point but when they did bring us over there we stayed there for quite a while. We stayed overnight, almost 24 hours. And we walked around, we saw the bunkers that had been bombed, and that exposed all of the ordinances that just lied dormant on the desert.

AR: Was there a search at all underway or did a search ensue for explosives once you got there during that 24-hour period?

LLJ: No. There wasn't a search. The mission that the brigade had was to get to Baghdad. That was more of a pit stop there for us. And, you know, the searching, I mean certainly some of the soldiers head off on their own, looked through the bunkers just to look at the vast amount of ordnance lying around. But as far as we could tell, there was no move to secure the weapons, nothing to keep looters away. But there was - at that point the roads were shut off. So it would have been very difficult, I believe, for the looters to get there.

AR: And there was no talk of securing the area after you left. There was no discussion of that?

LLJ: Not for the 101st Airborne, Second Brigade. They were -- once they were in Baghdad, it was all about Baghdad, you know, and then they ended up moving north to Mosul. Once we left the area, that was the last that the brigade had anything to do with the area.

237 duran:

GAZE

Color me skeptical, but I find it difficult to believe that the 101st Airborne wouldn't know what to do with a major arms depot once they moved into it.

Also, color me also skeptical that a dingbat pool reporter knows what's going on in said ammo dump better than the soldiers whose job it is to search and secure it.

Also, color me skeptical that soldiers would let a reporter run loose in an ammo dump full of high explosives.

Also, color me skeptical that reporter wouldn't have filmed massive stockpiles of explosive had any been found.

Duran:

I'm on your [political] side, but read the posts first. This ain't your typical site, they actually engage in debate with the opposition if the debater is truly interested in opposing viewpoints.

Read the posts!

Furious...

I'm with you...

#240,Shan NYC. Speaking of reading, did you go back and check that NBC story you linked to? I would still like to know more about the IAEA disasembly of Iraqi nuclear materials prior to operation desert shield.

#239, Furious J. What are you, some kind of skeptic? It's in the news so it must be true. Everyone knows that. Journalists are honor bound to truth and objectivity don'cha know. Don't believe me, ask Dan Rather.

Gymnast:
I didn't write the article either. I have no idea what they meant by inspectors disassembling prior to Desert Shield/Storm. It probably was a cut and paste error...

Since the main reason the explosives are gone is the dithering at the UN by Colin Powell (where is he these days... hiding?) in the runup to the Iraq war, maybe this blowup will also squelch the "rush to war" blather.

Then again, with the MSM being so willfully blind, maybe not.

"Look, up in the sky! It's a bird!"

"It's a plane!"

"It's... a pig!"

#244, Shan NYC the whole thing looks more like a cut and paste job. Fit for propaganda, not news. I suggest you go over to [Link: WWW.Wintersoldier.com...] and see the lastest historical data on John Kerry and the organizations and people he chose to affiliate with.

The site was a major ammo storage facility. There were many types of weapons there, including, at one point, suspected chemical weapons. The weapons that were under seal are the only ones disputed here, and they were not ordinary munitions but were of some special type (more powerful or something or other--munitions are not my field). That's why they had the seals on them.

If the reporter reported a lot of ordinance lying around this is irrelevant. The entire country is loaded with ordinance. In fact, we've destroyed quite a bit of it (don't have the exact figures, but it's huge). If the military had stopped to secure every site with ordinance right in the middle of the war or its immediate aftermath, it simply would have been impossible to do anything else. The question is not whether ordinance was there--it's whether the sealed ordinance was there at the time the troops first got there. The reporter never even discusses this; my guess is s/he doesn't even know that this is the issue, and wouldn't know the difference if s/he saw it.

At this point the soldiers were still fighting, trying to secure the oil fields and important buildings, and looking for WMDs. They were uninterested in and totally unable to deal with every bit of unexploded ordinance around. These were not WMDs, and it appears they also didn't have the UN seals on them, so nothing was done at the time, which is totally understandable, and not the issue dealt with in the NY Times article.

IAEA?

Pardon my ignorance, but what does that stand for?

Man, I really did call this. Rather Forgeries II. A couple of days ago. Or yesterday. I can't remember when. But after awhile it just gets to be second nature figuring out what these bastards are going to do.

#203 Gordon

"Cliffie's" source is not the Bush re-election campaign---it is moi! Cliffie, and Karl Rove, too, are mere sock puppet on my ghostly fists! It is I who am the source of all ridiculous rumors, shill-blogs, smear campaigns and wild conspiracy theories! ]

It's all part of my diabolical scheme to take over the earth. The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem shall be restored! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

/Channeling Baldwin IV, The Leper King, former monarch of the Holy Land, master manipulator and proud owner of the Karl Rove sock puppet.

(Send him $19.95, and you can have one too! Remember---IT'S NOT AVAILABLE IN STORES!)

#248
IAEA stands for International Atomic Energy Association.

www.iaea.org

The IAEA is the world's center of cooperation in the nuclear field. It was set up as the world's "Atoms for Peace" organization in 1957 within the United Nations family. The Agency works with its Member States and multiple partners worldwide to promote safe, secure and peaceful nuclear technologies.

The above small part of their description.

Hope this helps.
Robert

On Fox News, Charles Krauthammer made these points (as best as I can recall).

The significance of these high power explosives is that they can be used to detonate nuclear bombs.

The inspectors were supposed to see to it that the explosives were destroyed. If they knew about them, why didn't they have them destroyed? Instead, the IAEA decides to notify the US of the explosives after the US troops already moved into Iraq -- quite a delay.

The New York Times story was disgraceful because they should have put this amount of explosives in perspective. There were a million tons. The US and coalition forces have already destroyed half of that. This story concerns 380 of that million. But instead, they put this on page 1, without the context.

The New York Times spin was disgraceful because they implied negligence of the US in watching the explosives collection, when in fact they were missing when US troops arrived.

Above points were made by Charles Krauthammer on Fox News Tuesday October 26.