Since Saddam Hussein hardly qualifies as human, I don't see how he's deserving of human rights, much less a human rights lawyer.

OT, in a story sure to give major shareholder Ted Turner a heart attack, Time Names Bush Person of the Year.

So Saddam demands the rights and protections denied to his thousands of victims. And his defender, Clive Stafford Smith, calls himself a "human rights lawyer"? He seems very selective in whom he thinks deserves human rights.

I'm sure the press will back this 100%. A huge opportunity to Bush bash.

Saddam should have been summarily executed when they found him.

#3 sonofsheldon

You said it much better than I. Thanks!

Bring in the clowns.

It cannot be said the LLL of ANY nation are not out to show how ignorant they are of us. They obviously have not seen the results and WHO voted for those results in our recent election. To think that they could try to engineer a means to try this butt-head under OUR laws, is the depth of stupidity. I can imagine what the Iraqis would envision us as if that ever happened. It would truly set us up as having a 'conquering' mentality in their eyes (as if some do not already think that, unfortunately), as opposed to liberators.Of course, that is probably the aim of this game anyhow.
It is against the citizens of Iraq that SH committed his horrific crimes and it is up to them to make the final judgment. Typically, the most guilty run for the hills where they 'think' they would find cover and refuge. I think not.
Suddenly, the great demon of the west is supposed to be the refuge and salvation of this puke. Granted, they also probably think that because of some of the jerk-offs that have gotten away with murder via our court system = but not this one and not this time.
Sorry =- keep your sorry excuses for this dictator and all like him directed to hell.

All you neeed is one LLL on a US jury to make us look like fools. With 48% voting wrong, I'd say Hussein has a pretty good chance of walking in a US trial.

Soros indirectly funding Saddam's defence.

Sounds about right.

If the regime was shit, you MUST aquit!

/channeling Johnnie Cackring

So now the land of AshKKKroft and the Dissent Suppression Act is the only place where Hussein can have a fair trial... call it cognitive dissonance.

My faith in juries returned a bit when the Scott Peterson conviction came down. I can't see how he would get a trial here, his crimes were done in Iraq.

FabioC. (#10),

call it cognitive dissonance.

It's something.

I call it L³ogic. It doesn't extend beyond the end of their nose.

They never really think things through.

HAHAHAHA ! OK, now that that's over with, and correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't Saddam have to be CHARGED with something in the US before he could be tried in the US ? I don't recall any US charges being even hinted at, much less filed. The odds of the US charging him with anything is just about zero. If the Iraqis want to charge and try him and drag him to death behind a lame camel, it's none of our business and has no standing in a US court of law.

#10 FabioC.

So now the land of AshKKKroft and the Dissent Suppression Act is the only place where Hussein can have a fair trial... call it cognitive dissonance.

Doesn't make sense, does it? That a supposedly facist nation where a Neo-Nazi government controls who's innocent and who's guilty would be the best place to try Saddam? Well, I've never accused the LLLs of being comprehensible.

Geepers, you had it right in #4. Oft times our goodness gets in the way of our common sense. I know that's a good thing. But sometimes...

On the other hand, I can see this guy's point to a degree. Perhaps Saddam's trial SHOULD be moved to a different country. Might I suggest Kuwait ? He could throw himself on the mercy of the Kuwati high court. Heh.

Clive Stafford Smith should be aware that he needs to take the issue up with the new Iraqi government. When will the moonbat liberals wake up and recognize that the Iraqis have their own government and their own justice system? This is part of the democratic process and the trials must be held in Iraq. Not the U.S. Not the Hague. Justice must be delivered by the people he tortured and abused for 35 years. Thank you.

I'm not sure how it works in international law, but if it's anything like US law, then Saddam's f*cked either way. IIRC, in the US, when a person is charged with crimes in multiple states, they usually try the person in the state where the earliest crime happened and/or the most likely place that he'll be convicted. In either case, Iraq would get first dibs.

And I don't think Clive Stafford Smith took into consideration that the EU won't extradite people to countries with the death penalty.

Is this some kind of joke?

Isn't it interesting that the foreign left is always fuming about our death penalty, our abuse of prisoners, our human rights abuses but when they want to get their guy off the hook they propose coming to the US?

#11 Marine Momma

My faith in juries returned a bit when the Scott Peterson conviction came down.

Do you mean California juries? Convicting murderers is commonplace and efficient in most parts of the United States. Only California drags them out for six months or more.

Saddam wants to be tried in LA.

I'm not so sure this trial business is such a great idea. First of all you will have liberal lawyers gouging each others' eyes out for the fame and fortune of trying to get the bastard acquitted. You think acquittal is out of the question? Consider that Iraqi terrorist agents have already infiltrated the Iraqi Army and the Iraqi police--why not an Iraqi jury? (An alternative would be to capture relatives of jurors and threaten them with beheadings.)

Mr. Smith and his LLL and MSM buddies consider what's going on as "victor's justice" and that its just plain wrong. Well, flash for the LLL and the MSM, the winners always get to write the history books. What the hell does the LLL think Nuremburg was if not "victor's justice"?

If we'd had todays press and left around in 1945 all of those Nazi slimeballs would have been awarded compensation for our interference with their plans for world domination.

#22 - Sawadee63

I agree. It's not outside the bounds of possibility that Saddam could walk - and many people would really like that.

He would be able to move to some friendly Middle Eastern country - France for instance - and spend the rest of his life in comfort; the darling of the party set.

Does that remind you vaguely of another murdering thug?

And anyway, where was Mister Stafford Smith when it came to protecting the human rights of all the people that thug killed...

/barf

Let's face it, the safest place for Hussein to have a trial and be acquited is the USA. PEST LLL's will have something to concentrate on besides themselves. They will acquite Saddam Hussein and condemn G,W. Bush. No trial for Saddam should be held in US.

There are downsides with a trial, but I think the reason for it is to show publicily what the fate of Hussein and his ilk will be.

Also, it's an occasion to disclose more facts on the WMDs, the French-Iraqi collaboration, the mass graves torture and repression...

The trial of the century? Remember--there are 96 years left before the 22nd century gets here, and we may end up seeing worse than Saddam!

Clive Stafford Smith used to come to Louisiana all the time to fight against our death penalty. According to his earlier arguments, U.S. courts are barely a step above kangaroo courts or star chambers. I'm glad to hear he has changed his tune and admits we have the fairest justice system around. Undoubtedly, though, he would still argue that it would be "barbaric" to give Saddam the death penalty, no matter how many he killed.

I met Clive once, in fact, at the execution of one of his clients. Such was the empathy and bond developed between Smith and his vicious murderer client, the man's last words were not of remorse or apology, but a joke: "Tell my lawyer he's fired." I'm sure Smith believed that was heroic of him, to keep a stiff upper lip and all that.

If Smith had his way, Saddam Hussein, Chemical Ali, and all the other Ba'athists wouldn't serve any time in prison at all. Instead, we'd spend eternity trying to figure out how society failed them and caused them to commit such bad acts. Maybe his mother was mean to him, Clive?

It’s no surprise to discover that Clive Stafford-Smith is a beneficiary of the George Soros Foundation.

That's the "Open Society Institute," helping defend Saddam. Karl Popper is spinning in his grave.

If you are a lawyer with an anti-American client, the NY Times and/or CNN is there to help! Just leak them a document and they'll run with it! They also love publishing classified info -- spy sattelite programs, espionage data (Osama's bugged phone). It's all the same to them. I'm sure the sympathetic Saddam stories are in the works now.

#21, Beagle
I meant juries in general. Even though everything in the Peterson case pointed to him, they didn't have concrete evidence, so I was waiting for a not guilty verdict.

#2
Naming Bush is just another opportunity to point out how "evil" and dictatorial he is. Then they can go on about how everyone who supports him is an Evangelical Christian, stupid Red Neck, or a Nazi warmonger.
Then they can point out how everything he has ever done is a failure, except for causing turmoil in an otherwise peaceful and happy world.
Rhen they can go on about how the only "real" law is the "international law" spouted by the UN (which is being unjustly accused of everything from corruption to being a dictators' club).
In other words, it's not a compliament but an excuse to replay the entire pack of bullshit one more time.

Saddam tells Iraqis to unite against US

Execution now, including his attorneys. Trial later.

A few years back there was a TV documentary series about Clive Stafford Smith's attempts to get justice for American cons on Death Row where there was real doubt that they were guilty. You had to admire the guy's dedication.

Then he started trying to save murderers who were guilty, like the rapist who ripped out his living victim's eyes before killing her in some horrible way.

Now CSS has become a kind of terrorist's groupie who said on BBC radio that his ambition is to get all the detainees at Gitmo released. That initiative is financed by George Soros.

CSS probably thinks he can turn Saddam's trial into a kind of reverse Show Trial where the US is condemned for illegally invading a sovreign country.

I'd like to know what the hell does a mega-capitalist like Soros get out of this?

It’s no surprise to discover that Clive Stafford-Smith is a beneficiary of the George Soros Foundation.

I wonder, did Soros deal with Saddam or Iraq? Is he a good friend of Mark Rich? I'm starting to think he has something to hide, and it's worh more than thr 50 million he lost pushing JF Kerry.

A human-rights lawyer defending Saddam Hussein? Is this some kind of sick joke?

#21 Beagle

With Ito and the OJ jury.

Hey, they can always turn Saddam loose. Think Mussolini...

Wait a second. Think!

The least credible first tier country in the world to carry off the war-crimes/despotry/pillage-and-plunder trial of the dictator of Iraq ... is The United States. (I say this as projected against what the LLL will whine about.) Of course the 'credibility' has nothing to do with it.

First, Clive Stafford Smith knows that there is few (if any) statutes of American Law that Saddam-the-Snake violated. What exactly would an American Civil Court try him on? Passport violations? Currency laundering or counterfeiting? Polygamy? The despot needs to be tried in a court either of intenational tribunal or of, by and for the Iraqi people.

Second, CSS wisely has figured out that this will cause dyspepsia in the U.N., the E.U., and elsewhere. I mean, they already believe in their hearts that the United States is an Imperium above the world-majority proletariat parliamentarians. What more proof needed than for the United States to ursurp the World Court, or the nascant judiciary of the newly sovereign and independent Iraq? I mean, wouldn't the United Nations be a much more appropriate venue for this, if it was truely felt that a fair trial couldn't be had in jolly old Baghdad? [Or the "World Court"?]

Third, this is a crass attempt to throw the whole affair into the transnational liberal's lap. Simply put, Smitty is betting the farm that Europe is going to find the possibility of deposing the old windbag and finding him pettily guilty, but generally "reformable" to their liking. Fwance must be slavering at the idea of hooking Saddam by the nose to parade around as their pet rhinocerous -- "Now watch carefully, folks. This here endangered Iraqisaurus Despotix has a vicious bite, a terrible venom. But we've neutered, manacled, medicated, muzzled and trussed it up so it can harm no one. In fact, it is an international treasure. Please do not over-feed."

OK. so that last part was a weak EU-bash. Sorry. Not.

Fourth, underlying the whole thing is an even more crass attempt to get good ol' Clive paid. I mean with that prematurely extinct Graft for Oil program shut down, with the Iraqi economy being in the toilet, with no one to fund all those legal briefs, how is Clive gonna get paid? Polishing the helmet of a dictator is fine, but what does one call the 'dictator with no funds?' Move it to the United States, and there are a lot of monies that will flow.

Fifth, it is a brilliant "Look over there! A shooting star!" canard. The lefties see it as addressing part of their concern [i.e. "making the United States" look bad. The right wingers see it as a "hell ya, you bet!" initiative. The euroweenies see it as a "fvck that, do it over here" deal, and the rest of the world is getting on teh bandwagon.

Nope. Saddam Hussain's incarceration, arraignment, prosecution, trial, condemnation and sentencing needs to be on the shores of Umm Qasr, not Union Square.

GoatGuy

I am so f**in' sick to death of hearing about the "rights" of murderers, despots and terrorists (and their supporters.) Most of it's already been amply covered by the previous comments, such as sonofsheldon and JohnSteele, but I'm also sick to death of coverage such as this:

In Gaza, Israeli troops withdrew from the Khan Younis refugee camp late Saturday, ending a two-day operation that killed 11 Palestinians and wounded dozens more. The operation reduced nearly 40 homes to rubble, U.N. officials said. [boo-friggin'-hoo--ed]

Residents awoke Sunday to piles of broken furniture, clothing and household goods strewn throughout the destruction. Men used shovels to salvage belongings, while children stood watching, schoolbags on their backs.

"What can we do, and where can we go? They left us nothing," said Amena Tratori, a 44-year-old mother of six, looking at the mound of rubble that was once her home.

"If they (the Israelis) think that by killing people and destroying their homes they can stop resistance, they are mistaken. The young children will remember the destruction and will never forget." [and are apparently congenitally incapable of learning, and connecting cause and effect in a logical manner--ed]

The raid followed some 50 Palestinian mortar and rocket attacks that killed a Thai worker in a Jewish settlement and injured 17 other people, including 11 soldiers, the army said, adding that it targeted houses militants used as launch pads.

Early Sunday, Palestinian militants in northern Gaza fired three homemade rockets into southern Israel, lightly wounding two people in Sderot, the army said. Hours later, Israeli aircraft struck a rocket launcher and mortar launcher in northern Gaza, the army said.

The army also reported new mortar fire on settlements in southern Gaza.

For once, why can't the press be intellectually honest and start with the inciting events (islamofascists and paleostinians attacking innocent civilians) with a sympathetic description of the effects on those innocents, such as a reaction from the family of the Thai worker and then a dispassionate mention of the fact that the Israeli army retaliated for the inciting event?

And, once again, note the supreme lack of insight on the part of the paleostinians. Never once do they recognize that if they stopped attacking Israel, there would be no

killing people and destroying their homes.

It ain't "resistance" when you throw the first punch. And "cycle of violence" is an intellectually dishonest term coined by those who refuse to take resposibility for their actions but want to whine about the fact that their asses get kicked by those who insist on instilling consequences, in the futile hope that the perpetrators might change their behavior when confronted with the reality of those consequences.

BTW, note that the press doesn't mention the satellite receivers for their TVs which were smashed, or the latest Nintendos and DVDs, because it wouldn't sound pathetic enought to note that these "camps" are not tents full of starving, ill-clothed refugees but permanent housing develoments with good plumbing and electricity in which fat-assed paleos dressed in Nike clothing watch TV and drink coffee in cafes while bitching about "the man."

Rayra,

Soros is a strange ranger.

Why in the world would someone dump 25 million into MoveOn.org?

If he wanted to help the oppressed, he'd have dump 25 million into school supplies for Iraqi kids.

Of course since 50 million to him is like you or my loosing a dollar I'm surprised he's such a fucking tight wad that he didn't do both double.

Hey md,

Maybe for my birthday. My sister's got a bunch of stuff to do at the art museum before the end of the year.

OT, meanwhile there's a liberal AND republican hanging party out to get Rumsfeld strung up by his heels for crimes you'd think were worse than Saddam's.

Where's the justice.

Rumsfeld didn't hand sign letters to families of fallen soldiers. Anyone seen his arthritic looking knuckles? Unlike the Hussein family, Rummy didn't personally torture, maim, kill & enjoy snuff videos of his fellow citizens.

[shrugs] I don't see what the big deal is. Just set up a quick kangaroo court and hang him like a common thief.

While we're at it, why should he even have a lawyer anyway?

Yes I'm being serious.

-ron

And this when millions wanted to put bullet in his head without a trial. This from the individual who denounced his advisors at random while laughing his ass off and smoking cigars as they were hauled off to be shot. No doubt about it, sociopaths are always cry-babies. The Iraqis have the right to try him and they will.

#46 Geepers

I think he does give money to a lot of other charities, at least, that's what I heard.

But as for the MoveOn, it's simple, he probably wants Power. And lets face it, he definitely got quite a bit for what he did.

-ron

#39 Terrye

"Hey, they can always turn Saddam loose. Think Mussolini..."

Or Ceaucescu for that matter.

William F. Buckley, Jr. in a recent commentary wondered why on earth Saddam still lives. WFB even went so far as to suggest that the next time an American civilian was beheaded, we should march Saddam into a stadium for a very public (and identical) execution.

Fellow Lizardoids.

I've been asked to pass the word on a freebie, ad-free newsletter that collects and passes on the latest info on the Middle East and Jewish affairs from a prospective LGF'er would find helpful.

"Israel News" is edited by the father-son team of Prof. Harley Flanders and Daveed Shachar, who now lives on a west bank "settlement." It's not a blog, just news.

I have been reading Israel News for three years and find it immensely helpful.

Just email harley@umich.edu to be placed on the mail list.

Thanks

Oh, come on... they're not going to get the whole OJ jury back together just for this guy...

The monster should get exactly the kind of trial he gave his people. Then hang him. Slowly.

It's difficult to believe that we're playing along with this farce.

Well, not that difficult actually.

Just think though, if we had Ito and Marsha Clark et al back, then We would all be treated to more of

"Marsha Clark and the Dancinf Ito's" on the Jay Leno show.

Thought that was rather funny meself!

Soros, should be frustrated further and blocked in his attempts to weigh down US policy via $$$ donations.

Doesn't matter...Thirty years from now Saddam Hussein will be burning in hell and paying for his crimes against humanity for eternity.

Clive Stafford Smith can represent him there.

Ok. No recall for OJ jury. New pool is frm Gitmo.

On the other hand, I can see this guy's point to a degree. Perhaps Saddam's trial SHOULD be moved to a different country. Might I suggest Kuwait ? He could throw himself on the mercy of the Kuwati high court. Heh.

That is from Mike...posting #16. I have a much better idea; give him to Iran. After all, he comes from a Sunni tribe (and we know how the Shi'a and Sunni feel about each other), is what the Ayatollah would call an "apostate" because of his total disregard for the laws of Islam, and we can't forget about his launching that war against Iran in the '80s. Oh and there is also the fact that Persians (being an Aryan people) and Arabs (Semitic people) don't like each other from an ethnic standpoint. Yep, I think that the Iranians would have a field day with him...who knows, they might even televise the execution. Hold on, let me get a TiVo and set it up!

Hey compos - aren't you awful OOOLLD to be posting here? ;-)

/ sarc off

If only the Nazis had better PR men, you know, they might have been STARS, bay-bee.

Ka-ripes...can't Soddy have a "jailhouse accident"?

Two Iraqis beheaded in Saudi Arabia for drug trafficking

For hashish.

access to his defense team and an independent judge and jury,

#63 Floranista

The fire is banked, not out. ( Now you'll have to go Google that to find out what it means.)

#67 composmentis

LOL! Yes, I know what that means :) Just responding to the (er...oh my) comments from the other day!

#68 floranista

If you are referring to my comment to him, I was kidding...or didn't you read the later post?

#69 Sarah D.
LOL! I was kidding too! or didn't you see my /sarc post?

#68 floranista

No, I read the last one:

Just responding to the (er...oh my) comments from the other day!

No sarc tag there.

BTW, is your nic indicative of flowers or greenery? It always makes me think of the south. With a bite of course. :-)

Sarah D.
My nic is because my passion is gardening, in the Pac. NW - though I would never bite! Was kidding composmentis because I am also older than most of the posters here and laughed when I saw the er...comment! I don't know about you Sarah, but I always picture people when I read posts as my age and have been so surprised when they are older or younger!

#72 floranista

I'm a garden lover myself. Happen to have my staghorn ferns, split-leaf philo's, orchids, and impatients in tonight. They are Floridians and can't handle the cold! Also had to cover all the other babies in the yard. Pain in the ass really.

I assume that most posters are within 20 years of me. I give my step-father (who is in his 70's) such a hard time...I guess that flows into my posting. I am ALWAYS kidding about age. No offense ever meant!

Of course, now that I think about it, my step-father is an a$$!

#73 Sarah D.
You sound like a much more accomplished gardener than I am; it seems like I mostly cultivate weeds!
Here's my most recent age faux pas: I assumed evariste was my age (51) and commented that his picture must be from the 70's complete with bell bottoms and polyester jacket. I found out he wasn't even born in the 70's! How old did that make me feel - I was going to concerts before he was born, OMG!

#74 floranista

Well, apparently I'm not capable of growing grass, just weeds there! I do a pretty good job of the landscaping tho!

I found out in one night of posting that evariste and Cam were both younger than me. So, I know what you mean! I'm thrilled when I run into an "older" poster. Not that I don't like the younger ones, but they make me feel ooold!

First, wouldn't an appropriate defense team would be Johnny Cochran and Mark Geragos? - an admission of guilt from the start...

Second, give Sad-damn a fair, impartial, legal trial in Iraq - read the charges and give Johnny the 2 seconds it takes to respond with "Not guilty" that we know he'll claim.

Third, pass sentence of "Not ONLY guilty, but F*ing Guilty as Sin!" and then minimize the cost of executing sentence (all pun intended).

Finally, purchase about 6 cases of Louisville Sluggers and distribute to anyone that wants one in the Iranian town that he gassed. Announce for 4 weeks with a minimal advertisement that Sad-damn will be released at the corner of Allah Ave and Jihad Road at noon on whatever day is selected. Tell Jihad TV that Sad-damn goes free if he just makes it to the edge of town. Let the Iranian's take care of the problem. If he does make it, repeat in Kuwait City. If he makes it there, repeat in Iraq outside of Abu Gharaib.

And as Yul Brinner said, "etc. etc. etc." Plenty of towns with individual charges to work through. The only sad part is they cannot each get a chance, unless you believe in reincarnation...

OT - when he wakes up, George Washington, Patrick Henry, etc are going to be kicking the s*t out of him... The Koran has a typo - that was wake up with 70 Virginians, not virgins.

Thanks for playing

I can't believe that Soros, who talked about having lived under nazi and communist occupation, is effectively helping Saddam get away with crimes against humanity.