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Investor's Business Daily: Crossing Jordan

Tue, Feb 8, 2005 at 7:57:31 pm PST

Investor’s Business Daily breaks media silence on the Eason Jordan story: Crossing Jordan. (Hat tip: Easongate.)

Now Jordan’s in the stew again. Speaking last week at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, Jordan made an arresting charge. He claimed the U.S. military, while pacifying Iraq, had targeted both American and foreign journalists.

Panel chairman David Gergen, according to insider accounts, gasped. The man who’d worked in administrations from Nixon’s to Clinton’s demanded evidence. Liberal Congressman Barney Frank, who was there, also demanded proof.

Jordan backed off — slightly. But afterward he accepted congratulations from Arab reporters who called him heroic.

That’s when the bloggers stepped in, including some who were actually there. Then master blogger Hugh Hewitt took up the case. Soon the blogosphere was electric with outrage over Jordan’s irresponsible charge. Now there’s an easongate.com, tracking the scandal’s every fact, every claim, every angle, and demanding CNN come clean.

Why “scandal”? Jordan was spouting outrageous charges with no basis in fact. In journalism, even in High Church Journalism, that is a cardinal sin. Rising to the topmost reaches of media power does not exempt one from the first rules learned in journalism class.

The bloggers, who’ve done so much recently to correct the elite media’s misbehavior — including sending CBS’s Dan Rather to newsman’s purgatory — now have Eason Jordan as quarry.

Deservedly so. It’s time for him to go.

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365 comments

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1 TGregg  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:00:52pm

I wonder how many thousands of journalists will have to be sacked before they go "Doh? Blogs need respect? Doh?"

2 theparson  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:01:32pm

Eason was taken out of context, don't ya know.

Eason didn't say what they say he said, don't ya know.

Eason doesn't have to live by the same rules as everyone else, don't ya know.

Take your pick.

3 Powderfinger  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:01:41pm

How many seditious, idiotic things must the head of an international news organiztion say to get some ink?

4 twin_daddy  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:02:25pm

It's just a sign of the times. No longer will be taking it at face value. If you're a journalist and you blatantly distort the facts or flat-out lie, you're going to be paying the price.

5 oldercadet  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:03:30pm

certainly a frank and candid protrayal, has anybody posted an eason picture with a bulls eye or a bar sinister across it?

6 thinkingmom  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:04:06pm

Props to truth-seeking bloggers everywhere!

7 Marine Momma  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:05:40pm

Eason doesn't have to live by the same rules as everyone else, don't ya know.

parson, that's the one I pick. The msm thinks it can shove their bias down our throats, after all it worked for years until a thing called blogs came to life!

8 Bubble Girl  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:05:57pm

Investors Business Daily? Damn, this story is hot, hot, hot on the MSM, isn't it?

9 Mcgyver  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:06:39pm

LGF (and the Blogosphere [which term I detest, but can't figure out what else to call it])

"Fact-Checking your ass 'round the world"

Mcgyver, out

10 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:08:35pm

I think he should stay, the man presided over losing 2 million CNN viewers, there are still a half million to go.

Having expressed a few outrageous opinions in my time (and been shot down in flames for it), by what right do we call for his head? If he had broadcast such idiocy, OK, hang him. He made the comments in a semi public forum; his remarks drew the ire of the greatest of all men of the right, Barney Frank. It fell to Rep. Frank to call him on the carpet. Let Mr. Frank handle it. He knows what he heard and can take whatever action he deems appropriate.

As for me, off to bed.

11 tigger2005  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:10:56pm

Beware ... the Bloginator!

Oh, how I want Eason Jordan taken down.

Rather ... Churchill ... Jordan ... so many traitorous bastards, so little time ...

12 Hankmeister  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:11:02pm

"Newsman's purgatory"...you gotta love it! It's about time the same standards of criticism that these jaundiced journalists have leveled against political and corporate figures are now being applied to journalists themselves. Such hypocrisy can no longer be tolerated, especially among the editors and elitist movers and shakers in the Fourth Estate.

And if the Fourth Estate insists on being a Fifth Column conduit for the left, then the more it and its journalistic priesthood ought to be scrutinized.

13 Renna  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:14:32pm

It is wonderful that what seemed to be an institution that had lost its self-policing, has now gained checks and balances, in the form of pajama clad fact checkers. It democratizes the spread of information, being no longer sprinkled down from above.

But the blogosphere is capable of so much more than media watchdogs. One day, we'll look back and remember how it all started.

14 Bob G.  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:16:13pm

CNN, The Most Busted Name in News.

15 Paul  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:16:44pm

Rather, Churchill, now Jordan....another lying scumbag is exposed. It's a new ballgame guys, people are paying close attention and fact checking now.

16 tigger2005  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:18:14pm

OT "France says doing all it it can to free Iraq hostage."

Don't look, unless you enjoy seeing a naked Frenchman holding his ankles.

17 JohnSteele  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:18:57pm

Interesting numbers overon Drudge --- viewership for cable news operations:
CABLE NEWS RACE
MON., FEB 7, 2005

FNC O'REILLY 2,652,000 [VIEWERS]
FNC HANNITY/COLMES 1,904,000
FNC GRETA 1,568,000
FNC HUME 1,446,000
FNC SHEP SMITH 1,327,000
CNN LARRY KING 891,000
COMEDY DAILY SHOW 755,000
CNN ZAHN 550,000
CNN AARON BROWN 528,000
CNN ANDERSON COOPER 445,000
MSNBC OLBERMANN 416,000
MSNBC HARDBALL 411,000
MSNBC SCARBOROUGH 360,000

Interesting that CNN continues to drop and they are getting dangerously close to being overtaken by MSNBC for Pete's sake :-)

18 Freedom Fan  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:19:11pm

Scott Johnson of Powerline.com is currently on O'Reilly Factor ripping Bill Moyer for spewing falsehoods.

Cool!

19 JohnSteele  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:20:35pm

#16 tigger2005
OT "France says doing all it it can to free Iraq hostage."

Don't look, unless you enjoy seeing a naked Frenchman holding his ankles.

...a naked Frenchman ...? How about an entire country?

20 ted  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:22:07pm

And so begins the process that we bloggers will undertake to squeeze out and lance the putrid toxins that dwell inside another pustule that comprises the that greasy,inflamed infected scarred world known as the MSM...

21 religion of bacon  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:22:17pm

Who would've guessed that Iowahawk had this much clout?

22 Renna  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:22:46pm

OT - US soldiers getting new duds. link

"The only problem I have with the uniform is, once the soldiers put it on, they don't want to take it off,"
23 tigger2005  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:22:55pm

# 19

Well, zee naked Frenchman represents all Fwance, non?

24 JohnSteele  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:26:26pm

#23 tigger2005

But of course Mon Sewer :-)

25 klein-bottle  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:31:27pm

I just sent this email to CNN. I suggest as many people as possible let CNN know that the coverup will not succeed.
They count email, it is important to them. Besides, you have nothing better to do for the next fifteen minutes anyway.

Making a serious allegation without proof is a breach of journalistic ethics.

If Mr. Eason Jordan can prove that American forces are targeting reporters, we have a scandal that must be quickly addressed. If there is no proof and the charge is an attempt to tarnish America’s image because Mr. Jordan disagrees with the Bush administration, then CNN has a serious problem.

The action CNN takes to resolve the issue can determine your future creditability.

26 EE  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:40:23pm

Jordan was conducting libelous incitement based on no evidence at all, and he was conducting it among influential people, at the World Economic Forum. This was not a comment made in private to a friend; this was made at the World Economic Forum.

Why are the mainstream media mostly hushing this up, spiking the story? CNN's Eason Jordan has unmasked himself for the anti-American libeler that he is. That should be big news.

Kudos to Investor's Business Daily, for scooping the New York Times, which boasts on every page one: "All the news that's fit to print". And the NYT calls itself "the newspaper of record". But we see that that claim is baloney. The NYT filters the news to protect those who are sufficiently close in ideology to themselves.

27 former demo  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:41:04pm

This is completly OT but I have had Laura Ingraham for dinner at my house. I will never forget that evening. (I'm writing this because she was brought up in earlier threads.)

She was great, had 2 other LLL Jewish friends who thought she was very scary....husband and I laughed at that night after they all left.

28 Pete(Detroit)  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:41:31pm

Sweeeet!

29 iceman  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:42:14pm

OT drinking with christopher hitchen by michael totten

[Link: www.michaeltotten.com...]

film of

Webcast replay: Election Coverage

Recorded on Sunday, January 30th, 2pm to 4pm (EST)

This unique conference from Washington DC will provide a consolidated picture of Iraq's elections featuring prominent Iraqis, selected guests (e.g., Christopher Hitchens), live call ins from the Friends of Democracy correspondents and bloggers, photos, video and stories.

is located here

[Link: video.friendsofdemocracy.info...]

hitchens is on at about 38:30 (38 min 30 seconds in)

30 Freedom Fan  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:42:30pm

Eason Jordan, powerful babbling moonbat, is toast. He should just resign now and make it easy on himself and his CNN (Communist News Network).

We must marvel at how difficult is must be for even the shrewdest of these asshats to keep their looney ideas from seeping out of their skulls at the most embarrassing times.

Lessee. seeBS (ratherBiased) is history; NBC (truckBombers) is again tarnished by sending in u.n. sycophant linda fasulo to whitewash the oil-for-food scandal, ABC starts to manufacture "liberal" biased news about dead soldiers' families to run counter to the Bush inaugural. These guys are pathetic. But it is perfectly rational for them to be paranoid; we really are out to get them.

Dude, BLOGGERS rule! Next victim?

31 HULUGU  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:49:02pm

not to worry--twas on the "grapevine" with brit on fox tonight--da story's gettin' out--peace....er i mean defensive war

32 Mr. E. Train  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:50:15pm

The blogs have now established thier place in the fouth estate: fact checker.

Gubment has its system of checks and balances and now the news services do as well. Just as congress howls when the SCOTUS strikes down a popular law as unconstitutional so will the MSM bemoan the rise of an army of PJ clad nitpickers. Just as congress writes laws with the courts in mind so to will the MSM will, in time, cover stories with truth and non-partisanship least they feel the sting of the blogospheres lash. It will take time to purge the likes of Jordan and Rather. But purged they will be. Those pushing agendas can no longer withstand nuclear Fisking.

Using these same tactics, fact checking and publishing their own words might just start to do the same for radical college prof.s

We can only hope and pray.

33 metal man  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:50:32pm

I'll have to watch the stock CNN is attached to tomorow. with the story being run in IBD we can only hope this will hit them where it realy hurts.

34 Beagle  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:53:16pm

It's really too bad Uday Hussein isn't around to defend trEason Jordan. I'm sure he'd tell us all what a stand-up guy trEason is and how he can be trusted as an accessory before the fact when you need to kill a couple of troublemakers.

35 J.D.  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:53:22pm
PJ clad nitpickers


I like it.

36 ted  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:54:11pm

I emailed this to CNN...

I was a devoted watcher and reader of CNN both on TV and the web. After the disgusting comments made by Eason Jordan that US troops purposely target and kill journalists ,no longer. I demand he either offer proof or resign immediately.

37 PDM  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:55:02pm

OT: (sorry to paste the whole thing, but the link is not working)

NEW YORK TIMES Buries al Dura Story

Posted: 2/8/2005 4:23:00 PM
Author: Andrea Levin
Source: [Link: www.standwithus.com...]

The New York Times Buries al Dura Story
February 7, 2005
by Andrea Levin

The New York Times buried on page 6 of the Business section (Section C) an important story (February 7, 2005) on the escalating scandal surrounding the facts of the infamous Muhammad al Dura episode. The case involved the alleged Israeli killing of a 12-year-old Palestinian boy and the severe wounding of his father at Gaza's Netzarim Junction in September 2000.

Then the Times buried in paragraph 26 the key finding of the article itself which is that two prominent French journalists reviewed footage of the event shot by France 2 televison and found there is no "definitive scene showing that the boy had died."

Additionally, the same journalists, Denis Jeambar and Daniel Leconte, refuted a central claim of the France 2 correspondent Charles Enderlin who reported the al Dura story. His longstanding defense regarding the scant, apparently truncated footage of the alleged killing had been that to show further images of the shooting and thus "the agony of the child" – was too "unbearable."

Jeambar and Leconte stated categorically that such images of the "agony" do not exist. That is, there are no scenes of a bloody and dying child and injured father in the 27 minutes of tape they reviewed of the scene despite Enderlin's repeated claims to the contrary.

Unmentioned at all in the Times story is the pair's statement in their article in the January 25 edition of Le Figaro that the 27 minutes, including footage taken just prior to the alleged shooting of al Dura, shows scenes in which the "Palestinians seem to be organizing a staged event. They 'play' at war with the Israelis and simulate, in most of the cases, imaginary injuries."

Jeambar and Leconte do not say the al Dura event was staged, nor do they say it was not.

The Times has done a service to bring the story to its readers, given the gravity of the consequences wrought by France 2's worldwide distribution of what became an iconic image of supposed Israeli brutality. Additionally, the story included photos that did give some prominence to the story for those who found it. But why the Business Section instead of the News pages and why not a story that presents prominently and completely all the latest information that triggered the report in the first place?

38 tankdemon  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 6:55:14pm

My questions are as follows;

1) What was the topic of the panel at which Jordan lied?

2) Why was that panel discussing anything at the world economic forum?

39 aaron's rantblog  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:04:03pm

Jordan is Palestine. Everyone knows that.

40 nightlight  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:04:57pm

The Globe is picking up the story now....


CNN clarifies Iraq comments
By Mark Jurkowitz, Globe Staff | February 8, 2005

Two weeks ago at the World Economic Forum in Switzerland, CNN's chief news executive, Eason Jordan, raised eyebrows when he suggested that some of the 63 journalists who have been killed in Iraq had been targeted by US troops. Although Jordan quickly tempered the remarks, a controversy has been building over them on the web. CNN has responded, issuing a statement clarifying Jordan's comments.

ADVERTISEMENT

Jordan made his remarks at a panel discussion on Jan. 27 in Davos about the media and democracy. Several sources, including the author of a weblog written at the event, said Jordan quickly amended his comments. Since then, the web has been abuzz with commentary about Jordan's statement and his intentions. CNN's statement says Jordan ''was not clear enough in explaining his assertion."

''While the majority of the 63 journalists killed in Iraq have been killed by insurgents, the Pentagon has acknowledged that the US military on occasion has killed people who turned out to be journalists," the CNN statement said. ''Mr. Jordan emphatically does not believe that the US military intended to kill journalists and believes these accidents to be cases of 'mistaken identity.' " A CNN spokeswoman, Christa Robinson, added that ''Eason clarified his position during the panel."

Still, a statement released yesterday by a spokesman for Senator Christopher Dodd, Democrat of Connecticut, said the senator, who was in the audience for the discussion, was ''outraged by the comments."

Representative Barney Frank, who was on the panel, told The Boston Globe yesterday that attendees ''perked up" after Jordan made remarks that ''sounded like accusing the military of deliberate targeting." Frank said Jordan then backed off a bit, saying he wasn't indicating that such targeting represented US military policy.

The discussion moderator, David Gergen, director of the Center for Public Leadership at Harvard's John F. Kennedy School of Government, said yesterday that Jordan seemed ''deeply concerned about the dangers to his own team" in Iraq.

The Committee to Protect Journalists, a nonprofit organization based in New York, says nine journalists and at least two media support workers have been killed by fire from US forces in Iraq, according to the organization's Middle East program coordinator, Joel Campagna. Campagna said that the group has not concluded that any deaths resulted from deliberate targeting of journalists but that some cases raised issues of ''fire discipline and indiscriminate fire."

41 Catttt  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:06:56pm
42 pajamahadin  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:10:15pm

Glad to see that the IBD is speaking out on this one.

I'd posted at my blog as well where I have an open Blog-chat available for anyone who is interested. (That's a Blog-Chat, not a comment thread.)

43 Gersen  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:16:17pm

OT (except this is another instance of elite media misbehavior
which few noticed at the time -- only two internet mentions of it as far as I know -- no doubt because of Olbermann's low ratings -- see #17 above.)

While channel surfing to avoid a commercial, I actually SAW the incident described below by a reader writing to The Corner at National Review Online:

SMELLS LIKE A HATE CRIME... [KJL]
...Or a desperate host. From a reader:
Did you see Keith Olberman [Friday] night on MSNBC? After savaging Fox News throughout most of his "newscast" he took a "talking Ann Coulter" doll and literally bashed it, smashing it repeatedly across the edge of his dest with a look of pure hatred on his desk, until it was in pieces.

After the break he held up the naked legs and buttocks of the doll and said, "This is all that's left of Ann Coulter." Then he threw it at the camera.

***************************
Can you imagine the uproar if O'Reilly or anyone else on Fox News did anything remotely this ugly? The Coulter bashing by proxy evidently happened the evening of January 7, 2005. Did anyone here happen to see it? Does anyone have a video or have any idea where I could get one? If so, please send me an email.

44 superninja  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:16:30pm

#27 former demo

Haha! That's great. Tell me more, please. What did the LLL think of her?

45 christheprofessor  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:20:23pm

#43 Gersen

That is astounding. Olberman is a joke. He should be fired -- my guess is that some lizard has that on tevo or something. I love to see it...

46 metal man  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:23:49pm

Campagna said that the group has not concluded that any deaths resulted from deliberate targeting of journalists but that some cases raised issues of ''fire discipline and indiscriminate fire."

What a bunch of crap. How easy it is to say that and then count every US soldier killed to undermine their effort. We pray for all those lost and wish the number could be zero. It seems in jordans utopia only soldiers die in a war zone and reporters float through the scene to get the pictures that drive CNNs ratings.

Jordan yank your ears hard, hear that pop that's your head comming out of your ass now keep it there.

47 Bubble Girl  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:24:18pm

#45 ChrisTheProf

And how many people have we said should be fired, and this is an outrage? They all still have their jobs.....

48 NY Nana  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:24:38pm

Cox and Forkum have him nailed!

49 superninja  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:26:22pm

#43 Gersen

Ann Coulter doesn't care who bashes her - she invites it in the way she talks and writes. The Leftist media hate her for a reason, but they don't really invite her on their shows - do they? Smashing her "doll" is just such a wonderfully childish display.

I find it funny, and I'm sure Ann does too. Hopefully, she will write about this little incident in her column and about the LLL's continuing wierd fixation on her.

50 christheprofessor  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:28:11pm

#47 Bubble Girl

Hi, Bubbles. At least, however dishonest, the rest can be hidden behind the pretense of journalism. Bashing an Ann Coulter doll to pieces, then tossing the naked bottom and legs at the camera is psychotic.

51 superninja  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:32:07pm

I still think Jordan is talking about journalists embedded with the "resistance" fighters. People sympathetic to making Iraq a lost cause who would then send in a report.

But he really can't say that, can he?

American and foreign reporters who are enemy sympathizers?

It's admitting complicity with the enemy.

52 Abu Maven  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:33:07pm

32 Mr E Train,

Good post.

53 Bubble Girl  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:33:14pm

#50 Chris

It was over the top, unprofessional, and spoke untold volumes as to the degree of underlying hate KO has for Coulter... So yes, I agree with you, it is somewhat psychotic...

But is even more crazy is why he wasn't yanked off the air or no one even took note of this behavior. Oh wait, I just remembered. MSNBC has Laurence Screaming Heebie Jeebies O'Donnell, Pat, the Holocaust Denier, Buchanan, Ron, The Poodle Aficionado, Reagan, and the other assortment of fruits and nuts...

54 quark2  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:34:50pm

Charles
Is Hosting Matters under attack?

55 big L  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:35:53pm

This whole Davos meeting was a junket for swells that someone else paid big bucks for.

OT-check out winds of change.net
A retired reservist has developed an 18 ft tall "Mecha" robot
for $15,000. yee haw, lets put those into the Iraq theatre.
"Mecha" refers to Japanese anime cartoon characters, he said.
There is a web site. To me, it is a version of the Walkers from Star Wars.

56 NY Nana  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:39:24pm

#54 Quark 2♥

Please check your email....

57 freedomplow  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:56:49pm

Drudge hasn't reported this yet, why oh why? Somebody take a guess. Here are my guesses.
1. CNN and Judy Woodruff were advertising on his page a few months ago.
2. He hasn't seen this yet.
3. He is golfing in California (or caddying).
4. your turn!

58 christheprofessor  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:57:00pm

TEST

59 quark2  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 7:58:13pm

Got it....c.heck yer mail. :)

60 blogaddict  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 8:08:47pm

I never thought I'd say this, but here goes: Spiro Agnew is vindicated! I couldn't stand the guy at the time (and I'm still pretty sure he was a crook), but he was remarkably prescient on this score, wasn't he? "Nattering nabobs of negativism"--Jordan, to a T.

Excerpts from the famous 1969 speech by Agnew [Link: ratherbiased.com...]

Now how is this network news determined? A small group of men, numbering perhaps no more than a dozen anchormen, commentators and executives producers, settle upon the 20 minutes or so of film and commentary that's to reach the public.... They decide what 40 to 50 million Americans will learn of the day's events in the nation and in the world.

We cannot measure this power and influence by the traditional democratic standards, for these men can create national issues overnight....

What do Americans know of the men who wield this power? Of the men who produce and direct the network news, the nation knows practically nothing. Of the commentators, most Americans know little other than that they reflect an urbane and assured presence seemingly well-informed on every important matter.

We've heard demands that Senators and Congressmen and judges make known all their financial connections so that the public will know who and what influences their decisions and their votes. Strong arguments can be made for that view. But when a single commentator or producer, night after night, determines for millions of people how much of each side of a great issue they are going to see and hear, should he not first disclose his personal views on the issue as well?

61 Gersen  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 8:18:56pm

#45 christheprofessor

Yes, I was stunned when I saw it. And I'm sure lots of people would love to see it. That's why I want the video!

#49 superninja

It is funny to hear about it, but it wasn't at all funny to see it. It was shocking. Like most liberals, Olbermann seems to have lots of bottled up hostilities. Too bad most of them don't have a classical education. They might have taken a lesson from the Hippolytus, where we see what happens to one who fails to honor ALL the gods. Hippolytus came to a bad end for failing to honor Aphrodite. Liberals are one and all failing to honor Mars, and look what becomes of them. The first thing I ever noticed about liberals was how mean and nasty and treacherous and dishonest they usually are. (In fact, as a group, they exhibit all the classical vices attributed to Mars, the god of war.) Of course they do not see themselves like that at all. A great example is Susan Estrich's column from last August, "Mad as Hell," which I also found shocking. (I think it is archived at Newsmax.) Anyway, I wonder if Ann would find Olbermann's doll bashing simply funny. It was too creepy, in my opinion, for anyone to find it simply funny.

62 metal man  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 8:31:02pm

#60 blogaddict

A question
Spiro Agnew, I couldn't stand the guy at the time (and I'm still pretty sure he was a crook)
I am too young to have seen personaly what went on during that term. So my question is was the feeling he was a crook from the inference from all the Nixon "Iam not a crook" that the MSM at that time and beyond repeated or some specifics that he was a crook?

63 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 8:32:45pm

Right-wing blogs are too powerful and need to be censored.

/freedom-loving liberal

64 Orbit Rain  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 8:37:21pm

"It’s time for him to go."

Tell your friends...tell everyone you know that CNN is headed by someone who claimed that our soldiers were targeting journalists.

Oh wait...I'm preaching to the choir...

65 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 8:40:34pm

Ok, just for another fact-checking tour on Eason Jordan coverage, nothing at:

Daily Kos
Atrios
Talking Points Memo
Liberal Oasis
Andrew Sullivan

1984 truly has arrived in the left-wing blogosphere, what they choose to not exist, doesn't exit.

66 freedomplow  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 9:05:45pm

Good call (EIDE_Interface)
don't shut down the insanity that is online. The more you read the more you reason.

67 Ed from Ohio  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 9:07:07pm

EIDE...

did you expect them to cover it. I sure didn't

It doesn't exactly work too with their one-track ideologically bound minds.

68 Bubble Girl  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 9:12:08pm

It's this almost incestuous relationship the MSM has. No matter how dysfunctional one of their own becomes they close ranks and protect them. They are like the members of Congress, they'd have to come to work nude, or run over at least 15 people in broad daylight before anyone said, "hey, this guy is a raving mad lunatic." And I know they are secretly competitive and would relish seeing on of their own go down in flames, they are just too chicken to do it themselves...

69 Ed from Ohio  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 9:13:28pm

I actually heard that our troops not only aimed at reporters, but intentionally fired on cute fuzzy bunny rabbits and baby kittens.

70 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 9:14:01pm

#67 Ed from Ohio:

I wouldn't say that I'm not idealogically bound as well, but at least my idealogy is malleable to reality while theirs is totally rigid and incapable of adjusting to changing conditions. I don't know what's a more elegant term for that, but that's what the left is.

71 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 9:16:33pm

Also, doesn't anyone find Josh Marshall's jihad against Soc Security reform just a bit sickening? It's not like he's trying to present a fair debate on the issue.

72 Stuck-in-CA  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 9:24:19pm

Between this absurd example and his admission that CNN was covering for Saddam's dirty deeds in order to get access in pre-war Iraq, seems to me Mr. Jordan is deep in the pockets of the enemies of America.

73 Catttt  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 9:28:52pm

OT Poll out today (CNN/USA Today/Gallup):

Fifty-seven percent of 1,010 adults surveyed from Feb. 4-6 approve of the way Bush is handling his job as president, while 40 percent disapprove.

Forty-six percent of the people polled have a favorable impression of the Democratic Party, the lowest level since at least 1992. Gee, wonder why. Maybe it's the lack of ideas, lack of candidates with honor, lack of "the vision thing," total negativity? I am negative on them, and I'm a registered Democrat.

74 Ed from Ohio  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 9:32:21pm

EIDE.....

i may also be bound by ideology (somewhat)

but it doesn't mean i can't be objective about things, unlike the moonbats on the left

75 Ed from Ohio  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 9:35:48pm

Catttt....

that is exactly why people have an unfavorable view of them.

the democrats offer nothing new, and along with the same old crap they've been harping on for years, it's now served with a healthy dose of anger, cynicism, anti-americanism, overly politically-correct, race-baiting, intellectual lunacy

for a good example, see Ward Churchill.

76 Ed from Ohio  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 9:37:13pm

MSNBC is just stupid.

they have been talking about porn for like half an hour straight

it's on ppv, let it be.

ok, i'm done ranting.

77 TheBurbs  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 9:37:53pm
Why are the mainstream media mostly hushing this up, spiking the story? CNN's Eason Jordan has unmasked himself for the anti-American libeler that he is. That should be big news.

It's always been common for corrupt institutions and professions to look out after their own. They only start policing themselves when outsiders make a big enough stink about what they are doing. The stink, in this case, has traveled pretty far, and it looks like it will go further. And the scent of Rathergate is still in the air. Thank heaven for the bloggers.

78 Rayra[deleted]  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 9:47:02pm
79 Catttt  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 9:54:07pm

New Democrat Theme Song

It doesn't matter what you say,
It makes no difference anyway,
Whatever it is... I'm against it!
No matter what it is or who commenced it,
I'm against it!

--Groucho Marx in Horsefeathers

80 Mauser  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 10:05:48pm

#65

Daily Kos
Atrios
Talking Points Memo
Liberal Oasis
Andrew Sullivan

Add Wonkette and you have a list of the ONLY blogs the MSM recognizes exist. If they were the only ones that DID exist, they'd have no trouble at all with the Blogosphere, so they're engaging in pretending to make it real.

Not that that ever works.

81 EIDE_Interface  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 10:10:37pm

#80 Mauser:

So if you take the MSM + the left-wing blogs that the MSM recognizes, you get a grand total of ZERO coverage of Eason Jordan-gate.

82 Spiny Norman  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 10:14:41pm

#78 Rayra

LGF 80,000 and rising.

How's that, MSM.

And we're in our pajamas.

LOL! Actually, I am.

Then again, I'm also quite drunk. Whoops.

83 blogaddict  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 10:28:46pm

#62 metal man:

Nope, Agnew was a crook all on his own. He had to resign the vice-presidency due to accusations of tax evasion in connection with kickbacks allegedly received when he was governor. That's how Ford ended up President--he was appointed in Agnew's stead. Agnew's disgrace sort of got swallowed up in people's minds by the larger disgrace of Nixon that followed.

[Link: www.newsdesk.umd.edu...]

[Link: www.pbs.org...]

84 Buckaroo  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 10:31:02pm

# 81 E

A search of "eason" in Yahoo news turns up 297 hits, ~287 of which deal with some other person named Eason and ~10 with the Davos kerfuffle!
:-(

85 Freedom Fan  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 10:36:17pm

Ever notice "eason" rhymes with "treason"? Coinkydink? Just sayin.

86 RayH  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 10:40:19pm

I love the internet. It's the most powerful information tool man has ever invented. Thank you Al Gore :-P
With this tool, the MSM can no longer dictate what is and is not newsworthy. They can no longer control what we think and say.
We are no longer bound by their philosophies and agendas. The elitist class of LLL's are slowly but surely losing their hold over us. CNN's and the other MSM's trying to bury this story and the blogoshpere bringing it out is a sign of it. And what Olbermann did with the Ann Coulter doll is actually a normal reaction by an LLL to what is happening. They are losing it.

87 Mr Pol  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 10:55:49pm

#86 RayH

With this tool, the MSM can no longer dictate what is and is not newsworthy. They can no longer control what we think and say.

In the US, thanks to the first amendment. Not so in Europe, the PRC or any ROPer country. If the UN succeed in grabbing control of the Internet, even in the US it will become almost useless.

88 RayH  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 11:20:33pm

#87 Mr Pol
I think a lot of this will come to a head before the UN can take control of the net. That is if they can take control of the net. Granted, it seems that the only country that can stop them is the US. I certainly hope that sometime in the near future, we pull out of it. I know that there is a movement in Congress to do that, but not a strong one. I just hope that Condi becomes our next president. We need someone with the clarity of vision to lead us as a nation.

89 metal man  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 11:23:18pm

#83 blogaddict

Thank You for the response. I learn more here about history with specifics than I ever did in school.

90 Mr Pol  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 11:24:46pm

#88 RayH

Pulling out of the UN would be a mistake - just stop paying anything and veto every single resolution. And I sure hope Rice isn't the next US president. Israel's in a bad enough situation.

91 RayH  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 11:34:11pm

#90 Mr Pol

I'm curious about it, why wouldn't you want Condi to be the next president? What are you seeing in her that I'm not?

92 alkmyst  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 11:37:07pm
#3 ninetails 2/8/2005 06:47PM PST

Suspected Hamas Fundraiser Being Expelled from the USA
09:45 Feb 09, '05 / 30 Shevat 5765

(IsraelNN.com) A Los Angeles Immigration Court has ordered the expulsion of 44-year-old Abdel Jabber Hamdan, who is employed as a fundraiser for the Holy Land Foundation, suspected of channeling charitable funds to Hamas.

Senior prosecution official John Salter explained US laws do not permit “guests residing in the United States” to engage in activities aimed at developing terror or channeling funds towards that goal.

and here is the link from the states
Wow - had to dig a little for that link... the original google of "Abdel Jabber Hamdan" yielded quite a few moonbat links...

so anyway - here ya have it- the US is wise to the idea:
Deport The Fuckers

93 Mr Pol  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 11:37:49pm

#91 RayH

Pro-Arabism, a.k.a. Judenhass.

94 alkmyst  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 11:39:21pm

ooops. should prefaced that with an OT
oh. and I was another thread to begin with with...

Whatever. It's still great news!

95 metal man  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 11:41:53pm

#83 blogaddict

My wireless connection is slow so I responded to your post before going to the links (assumed links = clarity) after reading the links I noticed 1 was from a university and the other from PBS. Both are sources I question. I will still look more into it but doubt fills my mind so far because what in my search so far are all info taken from sources like the NYT. If I have learned anything here it is to question the MSM, PBS and universities.

Still I thank you for the push to look further into history.

96 RayH  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 11:43:15pm

#93 Mr Pol

Haven't heard anything about that concerning her. Could you provide references to articles or links I can study on this?
TIA RayH

97 Mr Pol  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 11:45:34pm

#94 alkmyst

Good news, yeah - CAIR loses another one.

98 Mr Pol  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 11:46:34pm

#96 RayH

Haven't heard anything about that concerning her. Could you provide references to articles or links I can study on this?

Look at who her mentors are/where. Or do a quick search on LGF.

99 RayH  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 11:48:48pm

#98 Mr Pol

Ok, I'll do that in the AM when I have more time. Thanks.

100 rightasrain  Tue, Feb 8, 2005 11:55:58pm

Grain of salt available on loan, RayH.

101 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 12:01:09am

#100 rightasrain

Pensions for terrorists, territorial continuity for a terrorist state but not for a Jewish one, etc. You need a salt anus picket.

102 RayH  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 12:09:50am

#100 rightasrain


I will go by what I read of her and by her to make a decision. Maybe I will need a grain of salt maybe not. Mr Pol surprised me with his dissent. Not know what he based it on, I couldn't make a proper reply for or against.

103 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 12:20:23am

#102 RayH

Mr Pol surprised me with his dissent. Not know what he based it on, I couldn't make a proper reply for or against.

Mr Pol has, unfortunately, turned into an avid conspiracy theorist lately.

I respect Mr Pol tremendously, but the incredibly damning theories (accusing people of planning murders, etc.) that have been coming up lately have been rather disturbing.

Condi didn't say that Israel should be torn in half. Someone else decided she was saying this, which is all Mr Pol seemed to need to believe that it's notarized somewhere.

We're all angry at a great many politicians these days (I know that I am.)

I don't see the point in creating a conspiracy theory about people out of anger. It's what moonbats do.

104 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 12:27:01am

#103 rightasrain

accusing people of planning murders

Back this up with a link, Gordon.

105 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 12:32:25am

#104 Mr Pol

You know what I'm talking about, Mr Pol.

You accused Sharon of planning to disarm Jews in Yesha so that they would be murdered by Arabs after Israel withdraws.

Whatever happened to that story, anyway? It was a very big deal for one night in here (after ONE op-ed piece), and it never turned up in Israel as a hard news story (not even on Arutz 7.)

It was in the thread about the moonbat video interviews at the Inauguration.

You went completely nuts over this issue after one opinion piece on it, then the entire issue disappeared.

What is up with doing stuff like that?

What's going on with you, Mr Pol? I respect you a lot, but I don't see the point of us turning into moonbats here with all these conspiracy theories.

106 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 12:36:14am

My friends in Judea and Samaria are still armed, by the way.

107 alkmyst  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 12:37:03am
#103 rightasrain 2/9/2005 02:20AM PST

Condi didn't say that Israel should be torn in half. Someone else decided she was saying this,

hat I've been hearing here is alot of talk about Rice saying something to the effect of "Contiguous pali terrortory" as in a strip of land connecting the arabs, and dividing the Jews.

I don't like it one bit, and quite frankly, I don't put my faith in her, Bush, or anyone who is not Jewish to decide the fate of Israel. For that matter, I don't trust many who ARE Jewish (by birth anyway - sharon has already proven he has no faith in God)

And with that, I'm off to work

108 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 12:38:16am

Mr Pol, you're also the one who has been promoting ANOTHER op-ed piece about how Sharon is selling out Israel to stay out of prison (which would mean a lot of Israeli deaths for sure, heaven forbid) -- and I think it also has Peres about to kill Sharon and blame it on the "settlers."

Op-ed pieces can say whatever they want. They're not meant to be factual unless they include actual facts.

109 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 12:41:17am

#107 alkmyst

I don't like it one bit, and quite frankly, I don't put my faith in her, Bush, or anyone who is not Jewish to decide the fate of Israel. For that matter, I don't trust many who ARE Jewish (by birth anyway - sharon has already proven he has no faith in God)

Good points!

I don't trust anyone who isn't Jewish and religious when it comes to deciding the fate of Israel, either.

I'm with you on this.

110 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 12:44:05am

What I do think, however, is that we have to look closely at what all these various people are actually doing (using the facts.)

Like it or not, these people are having an influence right now (until moshiach comes, anyway.)

Conspiracy theories only cloud things up.

We need to keep things clear to see what's really going on rather than creating additional problems (when there are already too many problems in the first place.)

111 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:02:01am

#103 rightasrain

By the way...

Condi didn't say that Israel should be torn in half.

[Link: www.state.gov...]

He talked about fundamental choices that the Israelis were going to have to make about creating conditions in which a new Palestinian state could emerge, and, indeed, that meant that the Israelis were going to have to recognize that there was going to have to be land for -- contiguous land for this Palestinian state to exist on.

Given the geography, how is it possible to have a contiguous terrorist state and a contiguous Jewish state?

112 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:02:52am

#105 Gordon

You accused Sharon of planning to disarm Jews in Yesha so that they would be murdered by Arabs after Israel withdraws.

I suggest you learn English.

113 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:04:57am

#108 Gordon

you're also the one who has been promoting ANOTHER op-ed piece

'Promoting' an op-ed piece, huh? Sounds like "Freedom of speech for me, not for you"...

114 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:06:17am

#111 Mr Pol

Condi didn't say that Israel should be torn in half.

Meanwhile, you have no quote from Condi saying that she thinks Israel should be torn in half, do you?

Yet, you will keep claiming this, probably.

A number of people here indicated that they understood that she was talking about Judea and Samaria (NOT Judea, Samaria and Gaza.)

Sometimes talk about a road to connect Gaza with Judea and Samaria comes up, but at NO TIME did Condi say "Israel must be willing to tear herself in half so that the Palestinians can have a contiguous state while Israel does not."

Yet, this is what you are accusing her of saying!

Please stick with the facts.

Ok?

115 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:07:49am

Mr Pol, you're calling me Gordon repeatedly?

I respect you a lot. I have no idea in the world why you think it's important to create conspiracy theories when we already have enough problems dealing with reality in all this.

What has happened to you?

116 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:10:04am

If you don't have a quote from Condi saying that she wants Israel to be torn in half, then don't make the claim.

It's really as simple as that.

You can say 'I suspect she wants to do this' or whatever, but don't make the claim that she's advocating tearing Israel in half when she has NOT said this.

We have enough problems in this already without making more up.

117 RayH  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:12:18am

#111 Mr Pol

At this point I don't agree with you but I'm not saying you're wrong. I may come up with a different opinion than you after doing research or I may not. That link you provided didn't work for me.


#107 alkmyst

I do agree with you on your point on who should be leading Israel. I don't put faith in Condi but I do respect her and her knowledge. Far more than I do someone like Al Gore or JFKerry or Hillary.

As for me, I would have told the palis to put up or shut up when it comes to peace and having a state. They could move back to where ever the hell they came from.

118 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:13:15am

#114 Gordon

Condi didn't say that Israel should be torn in half.

Meanwhile, you have no quote from Condi saying that she thinks Israel should be torn in half, do you?

Yet, you will keep claiming this, probably.

Actually, I said she called for territorial continuity for a terrorist state, but not for the Jewish state. Find me one quote from Rice where she calls for territorial continuity for the Jewish state, please. Or keep putting words in my mouth - from you ilk, I don't care.

That said, it is impossible to have territorial continuity for both.

119 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:14:07am

#115 Gordon

you're calling me Gordon repeatedly?

An apt name for those who keep trying to put words in my mouth.

120 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:14:56am

#116 Gordon

If you don't have a quote from Condi saying that she wants Israel to be torn in half, then don't make the claim.

Care to link to where I made that claim, Gordon?

121 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:15:43am

#117 RayH

At this point I don't agree with you but I'm not saying you're wrong.

Time will tell. Actions speak louder than words, after all.

122 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:16:47am

#118 Mr Pol

Actually, I said she called for territorial continuity for a terrorist state, but not for the Jewish state. Find me one quote from Rice where she calls for territorial continuity for the Jewish state, please.

The Jewish staate ALREADY HAS TERRITORIAL CONTINUITY.

Why is she supposed to suggest something that already exists?

If she doesn't personally and specifically suggest that Tel Aviv should exist, does this mean that she doesn't think it should?

You're going nuts on this again.

Conspiracy theories don't help.

They only create fog at a time when we need to see clearly.

Please ask yourself what's going on with you. You worry me.

123 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:18:29am

Obviously, Mr Pol, I've upset you or you wouldn't be resorting to calling me Gordon, etc.

It's impossible for me to get angry with you about this.

I'm worried for you.

We need to keep calm during this and figure out what's really going on.

We really do.

Take care.

124 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:18:49am

#122 Gordon

The Jewish staate ALREADY HAS TERRITORIAL CONTINUITY.

Why is she supposed to suggest something that already exists?

Jerusalem - ALL OF Jerusalem - is ALREADY the CAPITAL OF ISRAEL. And yet...

125 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:20:16am

#123 rightasrain

Obviously, Mr Pol, I've upset you or you wouldn't be resorting to calling me Gordon, etc.

Ah, you finally noticed that people attempting to put words in my mouth tend to upset me... Took you long enough.

126 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:20:58am

Condi isn't saying that Israel should be torn in half.

Many politicians have been saying for years that Judea and Samaria can't be cut up in ways that make it difficult for the Arabs to move around.

This is nothing at all new.

It has nothing to do with moving a million Jews in order to cut Israel in half.

127 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:22:12am

#125 Mr Pol

Ah, you finally noticed that people attempting to put words in my mouth tend to upset me... Took you long enough.

So you're not saying that Condi wants to cut Israel in half?

I'm so relieved.

128 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:23:42am

#126 rightasrain

Condi isn't saying that Israel should be torn in half.

No. She is saying that a terrorist state requires territorial continuity. While not saying that a Jewish state does, too.

Many politicians have been saying for years that Judea and Samaria can't be cut up in ways that make it difficult for the Arabs to move around.

This is nothing at all new.

It has nothing to do with moving a million Jews in order to cut Israel in half.

Heard about something called the 'Gaza strip'? And who said anything about a million Jews?

129 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:25:49am

#127 rightasrain

So you're not saying that Condi wants to cut Israel in half?

Again, Dr Rice calls for territorial continuity of a terrorist state, but not for Israel. Whatever she wants does not matter - geography does. It is impossible to have continuity for both.

130 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:27:51am

#128 Mr Pol

No. She is saying that a terrorist state requires territorial continuity. While not saying that a Jewish state does, too.

Why does she need to say this when the Jewish state already has territorial CONTIGUITY (not continuity, by the way)?

You're making claims based on assumptions about what she didn't say about needing something that already exists.

Heard about something called the 'Gaza strip'? And who said anything about a million Jews?

The article about the alleged plan to tear Israel in half said that a million Jews would have to be moved.

Mr Pol, what is going on with you?

I'm worried about you again.

131 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:29:50am

#130 rightasrain

Why does she need to say this when the Jewish state already has territorial CONTIGUITY (not continuity, by the way)?

See 'Jerusalem' above. Jerusalem cannot be both Israeli territory and the capital of a terrorist state. Jerusalem, all of Jerusalem, is Israeli territory. And yet...

132 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:30:32am
Mr Pol, what is going on with you?

You don't want to know.

133 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:30:34am

#129 Mr Pol

Again, Dr Rice calls for territorial continuity of a terrorist state, but not for Israel. Whatever she wants does not matter - geography does. It is impossible to have continuity for both.

The word is "contiguity", not continuity.

She was talking about Judea and Samaria, probably.

It's been a subject of discussion for years (to make sure that Arabs can move around in Judea and Samaria.)

This is nothing new.

Conspiracy theories based on assumptions do not help.

134 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:32:13am

#132 Mr Pol

What is going on with you?
You don't want to know.

Then take some time for yourself, whatever it is.

Conspiracy theories do not help.

135 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:33:00am

#133 rightasrain

The word is "contiguity", not continuity.

It's 'contiguous land', actually - which is the very definition of territorial continuity.

She was talking about Judea and Samaria, probably.

Sorry. 'Probably' is not good enough. Especially not when the Bush administration, despite promises made back in 1999, has still not moved the US embassy to Jerusalem.

136 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:33:31am

#134 rightasrain

Theories? Ha!

137 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:34:00am

If Israel were torn in half in the way it's been suggested, a million Jews would have to be moved.

If Condi were suggesting this, it would be a HUGE NEWS STORY, not an opinion somewhere.

We have problems enough without inventing new ones, honestly.

138 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:34:39am

#137 rightasrain

You've got the quote, you can get a map easily. Tell me, what does it mean?

139 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:36:53am

#135 Mr Pol

Sorry. 'Probably' is not good enough. Especially not when the Bush administration, despite promises made back in 1999, has still not moved the US embassy to Jerusalem.

So what Bush does about this particular issue is directly translated into your conspiracy theory about what Condi didn't say?

These aren't facts.

When moonbats make up things about Bush, we laugh about it here.

Why do you think this is a good idea?

140 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:39:42am

#138 Mr Pol

You've got the quote, you can get a map easily. Tell me, what does it mean?

You tell me why it's not a hard news story.

Why isn't Ha'aretz jumping with glee that Israel is going to be harmed?

Why isn't Jerusalem Post explaining it and analyzing it?

Why isn't Arutz 7 leading with this story as their top worry of the year?

It's your opinion, that's why. It's not factual.

141 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:41:58am

Maybe it's on page 40 of Ha'aretz printed paper.

'Oh, Israel will be torn in half. Yawn. Let's report on the rise of the numbers of single mothers in Israel since 1998 instead!'

142 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:43:34am

#139 rightasrain

So what Bush does about this particular issue is directly translated into your conspiracy theory about what Condi didn't say?

Stop that, Gordon. I am NOT going to trust that she didn't mean what she said ('probably') when the same administration cannot be trust about they say.

These aren't facts.

Wrong. Fact: the current administration cannot be trusted. Fact: Rice is part of the current administration. Fact: I'm not going to trust 'probably'. Not good enough!

When moonbats make up things about Bush, we laugh about it here.

Why do you think this is a good idea?

Gordon, YOU are the one making things up! 'Probably', huh?

143 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:44:14am

#140 rightasrain

[Link: www.arutzsheva.com...]

144 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:47:08am

#142 Mr Pol

Don't trust anybody, especially anyone who isn't religious!

It's a good motto! :) (Yes, I do know that you're not religious.)

So you have an opinion that no one in Israel's media (even in the "settlement movement") thinks is a news story.

Ok, it's your opinion.

Good for you.

It's not facts, but who cares.

It has nothing to do with the facts about what Condi has actually said. As long as we all understand this, then no problem.

145 Mike C.  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:49:43am

Well, what the hell - I'll jump in on this one. I do not think Dr. Rice will be running for president in 2008 nor do I think she would be a suitable candidate or have any chance of winning. That has nothing to do with her sex or race or intelligence. It's simply that she will not have the administrative background and experience with domestic issues that votors usually insist upon in a presidential candidate. GHWB was an exception to that rule, I know, but it's not a common occurence.

As to Dr. Rice and the issues of her being anti-Israeli and an Arabist, I said it before on the appropriate thread a few days back. I think a huge number of LGFers jumped the gun on that one, and based on virtually no evidence at all. Did any thinking person seriously believe that she or W would just have her jump out of the box by a dismissal of Abbas or a flat-out rejection of yet another attempt at negotiations, regardless of how unlikely success may be ? That's just simply not the way the game is played. And the US does have to play the game to at least some degree. Even if it's just going through the motions, one must sometimes do exactly that - go through the motions.

146 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:50:08am

#143 Mr Pol

Ah yes, another opinion piece.

NO hard news story on this, just an opinion.

Fine.

Let me know when it becomes an actual news story.

If Ha'aretz can put the number of single mothers in Israel on its home page, then the destruction of Israel by tearing it in half might be of some interest to someone there someday, right?

Opinion is not fact unless it's backed up with facts.

147 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:50:20am

#144 rightasrain

So you have an opinion that no one in Israel's media (even in the "settlement movement") thinks is a news story.

Rice words have been extensively reported, actually.

It has nothing to do with the facts about what Condi has actually said. As long as we all understand this, then no problem.

Bullshit. Territorial continuity for both Israel and a terrorist state is impossible given the geography of the region. What do Rice words mean?

148 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:52:11am

#145 Mike C.

As to Dr. Rice and the issues of her being anti-Israeli and an Arabist, I said it before on the appropriate thread a few days back. I think a huge number of LGFers jumped the gun on that one, and based on virtually no evidence at all. Did any thinking person seriously believe that she or W would just have her jump out of the box by a dismissal of Abbas or a flat-out rejection of yet another attempt at negotiations, regardless of how unlikely success may be ? That's just simply not the way the game is played. And the US does have to play the game to at least some degree. Even if it's just going through the motions, one must sometimes do exactly that - go through the motions.

Thank you!

149 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:54:43am

#147 Mr Pol

Territorial continuity for both Israel and a terrorist state is impossible given the geography of the region. What do Rice words mean?

Guilty until proven innocent, eh?

If I can't prove that she doesn't intend to destroy Israel by cutting it in half (even though she hasn't said this), then she's guilty.

This is how conspiracy theories work.

Welcome to the Democratic Underground. They do this constantly.

150 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:55:26am

#145 Mike C.

The way the game is played is to push the Arabs into resorting to terrorism once more, by letting them think terrorism works. The current hudna is being used by the Arabs to rearm and reorganize - and everybody with the IQ of dog poop knows it cannot last, because there is no way they can get what they want.

Why do I say it is intentional? Because, once more, the 'plan' is to NOT negociate anything until 'later', and in particular not talk about the red lines. When you negociate a contract, you don't leave the most important things for 'later' - you start with the potential breaking points and with the red lines.

151 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:57:15am

#146 rightasrain

I'm looking for the exact words from the latest spokeperson

#149 rightasrain

Guilty until proven innocent, eh?

Past guilt has been proven already. So yes, now it's guilty until proven innocent.

152 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:57:22am

So this means Condi is guilty until proven innocent, then.

DUmmies R Us will be so happy to hear this.

They despise Condi almost as much as you do, Mr Pol.

153 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:58:04am

#152 rightasrain

So this means Condi is guilty until proven innocent, then.

Actually, it means ANY US ADMINISTRATION WHATSOEVER is guilty until proven innocent, yes.

154 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:59:21am

#151 Mr Pol

So yes, now it's guilty until proven innocent.

Noted and bookmarked.

You have now officially crossed over to moonbat madness.

Watch out for flying Democrats over there.

155 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 1:59:26am

#152 rightasrain

BTW, did you check the last statements of Ofir Pines about weapon licenses and confiscation of weapons? It's... interesting.

156 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:03:28am

#155 Mr Pol

He's probably worried about letting anyone who thinks people are 'guilty until proven innocent' carry guns.

157 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:07:55am

#156 rightasrain

He's probably worried about letting anyone who thinks people are 'guilty until proven innocent' carry guns.

Now that's funny - coz I get to keep my guns. Your friends, on the other hand...

158 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:08:02am

Mr Pol, are you a Kanahist by any chance?

159 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:08:18am

Kahanist, I meant.

160 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:08:59am

My friends still have their guns.

161 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:14:13am

#158 rightasrain

Not yet.

#160 rightasrain

For how long?

162 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:17:25am

#161 Mr Pol

Not yet a Kahanist, eh? :)

For how long?

The Kahanists are trying to incite themselves out of their own weapons and they may end up ruining things for everyone else, but hopefully, they'll be ignored instead.

163 Mike C.  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:22:34am

# 150 Mr. Pol

Oh, I'm not saying any of this will do any good. The Palestinians, as a whole, are fucked. There's no way in hell any reasonable political settlement will satisfy their radical elements (the ones with all the guns and explosives) and the demands of the radical elements are total non-starters. Israel will never accede to those demands and I personally do not see any indications whatsoever that the US would push for such an outcome. This round of talks will go on, nothing will come of them, Hammas will still be attacking Israel and Israel will forge ahead with walling the bastards off and targeting them one at a time. Same-ole, same-ole. Palestinians will scream that Israel and the US did not negotiate in good faith, Israel and the US will say "Well - we tried. Again."

My bet is that Abbas probably would like to be the one that successfully pulled off negotiating a peace. Nobel prize for certain, and everlasting fame. But he knows full well it ain't gonna happen and would be his death sentance if it did. So he's just going throught the motions as well. Everybody is trying to score political points, and everybody probably will, at least to some degree. I don't really think the terrorists need to re-arm and reorganize - they seem to have an endless supply of explosives and recruits.

164 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:23:34am

#162 rightasrain

Not yet a Kahanist, eh? :)

Not yet. Meir Kahane's analysis of the problem was right - but I still believe his answers were wrong. This could change.

The Kahanists [blah blah blah] but hopefully [blah blah blah]

(1) blame anybody but those who actually take the decisions,
(2) let's keep our heads firmly stuck in the sand, and wait for the problems to disappear.

Now that Labor is back, I should have expected this.

165 foreign devil  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:26:14am

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSS!

Sorry, folks but I just woke up to read this. Having this story in IBD is going to make certain Jordan can't ignore this any longer. FOX has been keeping it front and center but, of course, there's no MENTION on CNN.

166 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:26:53am

#163 Mike C.

When you say

Everybody is trying to score political points, and everybody probably will, at least to some degree.

you're missing one thing: those political points are paid with blood.

Apart from that, I think you're right.

167 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:29:15am

#164 Mr Pol

Not yet. Meir Kahane's analysis of the problem was right - but I still believe his answers were wrong. This could change.

Sounds like it's changed already, for you.

blame anybody but those who actually take the decisions,

If the Kahanists keep acting scary enough that Israel isn't sure who they plan to shoot anymore, then they have themselves to blame for it if Israel takes away their guns.

They know that all the Jews in Yesha could lose their weapons, but why should they care? It just proves that Israel is baaaaad.

let's keep our heads firmly stuck in the sand, and wait for the problems to disappear.

No, I just don't want you (or the Kahanists) to make matter worse.

Things are tough enough already.

Stay with the facts. Condi is NOT guilty until proven innocent.

Creating things to be mad about does not help. Moonbats do this.

168 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:31:15am

#167 rightasrain

I see - criminals are using guns, so let's take eveybody's guns and blame the criminals?

Stay with the facts. Condi is NOT guilty until proven innocent.

WRT to Israel, ANY US administration is guilty until proven innocent. That's what 'having a record' means.

169 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:40:35am

#168 Mr Pol

I see - criminals are using guns, so let's take eveybody's guns and blame the criminals?

Most of the Kahanists aren't criminals, as far as I know. They just make a stink big enough to make 250,000 Jews in Yesha sound wild eyed and violent (although the Kahanists are what? 200 in number?)

They don't think about who they're hurting (ie, other Jews.)

Baruch Goldstein's eruption to kill 29 Arabs during prayers did a great deal of harm to the Jewish people ("settlers" in particular.)

If they incite themselves enough to lose their own guns, it will hurt them horribly. If they make other Jews lose their guns, too, then they're doing something downright horrific to other Jews.

WRT to Israel, ANY US administration is guilty until proven innocent. That's what 'having a record' means.

Hating America has become quite the sport these days (along with hating Israel.) :(

They're gonna love you at DUmmies R Us.

170 Mike C.  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:40:51am

# 166 Mr. Pol

you're missing one thing: those political points are paid with blood.

Sorry, not missing that point at all. Of course there's a blood price to be paid, especially in this sort of conflict. And that price will be paid whether there's negotiations or not. Until the Conflict Resolution Fairy waves her magic wand and makes the whole situation go away, that will continue. It could very easily continue for centuries - see Ireland for one example STILL in the recent news. But the politicians and especially the diplomats are still obliged to go through the motions and all hope to score political points for their stand on the issues.

To go back to the core issue, I maintain that a lot of folks on LGF went from considering Dr. Rice as The Second Coming one week to all but calling her an anti-semite the next, and I think that's at the very least foolish. You can bet your bottom dollar that Abbas is under no such delusions. All he has to do is turn his gaze north to Iraq and Afghanistan to see concrete examples of W's views. No amount of speculation can trump those facts. I would encourage a little patience on this and similar issues. We will see what we will see.

171 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:42:36am

#170 Mike C.

To go back to the core issue, I maintain that a lot of folks on LGF went from considering Dr. Rice as The Second Coming one week to all but calling her an anti-semite the next, and I think that's at the very least foolish. You can bet your bottom dollar that Abbas is under no such delusions. All he has to do is turn his gaze north to Iraq and Afghanistan to see concrete examples of W's views. No amount of speculation can trump those facts. I would encourage a little patience on this and similar issues. We will see what we will see.

EXACTLY!

Thanks again!

172 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:46:17am

Good morning all,

Interesting discussion, as always around this time.

Btw, Has anyone here been following the Cole-Goldberg bust up?
I had a look at their correspondence last night and I thought both of them are making very poor arguments.
The funniest thing is how Goldberg keeps saying that he's had anough and that he will walk away from the fight - only to be posting about it again within the hour.

Just wondering if anyone here had any thoughts about it.

173 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:50:43am

On that refreshing change of subject, I'm going to head away until later.

Only I really mean it. :)

174 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:51:20am

#169 Gordon

Most of the Kahanists aren't criminals, as far as I know.

Which means there is no reason at all to take away their guns...

The thing you do not WANT to understand is, you can't disarm the criminals, and disarming law-abiding citizens is plainly wrong. What the gov't is threatening to do right now is to disarm law-abiding citizens and has the gall of using as an excuse that some people are asking for a refendum. Ha'aretz called a referendum 'anti-democratic' and the left swallowed that - not surprising. But why do YOU swallow it?

Hating America has become quite the sport these days (along with hating Israel.) :(

My opinion about the US administrations has not changed since my FIRST post on this board, and I have always stated it in exactly the same manner.

They're gonna love you at DUmmies R Us.

Fuck you, Gordon.

175 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:56:06am

#170 Mike C.

you're missing one thing: those political points are paid with blood.

Sorry, not missing that point at all. Of course there's a blood price to be paid, especially in this sort of conflict. And that price will be paid whether there's negotiations or not. Until the Conflict Resolution Fairy waves her magic wand and makes the whole situation go away, that will continue. It could very easily continue for centuries - see Ireland for one example STILL in the recent news. But the politicians and especially the diplomats are still obliged to go through the motions and all hope to score political points for their stand on the issues.

Oh well - I guess that's the reason the allies demanded unconditional surrender in WWII, because as politicians and diplomats they were obliged to go through the motions...

To go back to the core issue, I maintain that a lot of folks on LGF went from considering Dr. Rice as The Second Coming one week to all but calling her an anti-semite the next, and I think that's at the very least foolish.

My opinion of Dr Rice has not changed in the last 5 years. I do not trust her any more than I trust this administration - i.e., not at all.

You can bet your bottom dollar that Abbas is under no such delusions. All he has to do is turn his gaze north to Iraq and Afghanistan to see concrete examples of W's views. No amount of speculation can trump those facts. I would encourage a little patience on this and similar issues.

I heard exactly the same arguments a decade ago - DS1 and Oslo - and I already knew it was bullshit.

We will see what we will see.

That is a fact :-)

176 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:57:11am

#172 hm

Do you have a link? I haven't followed it at all.

177 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:57:18am

#145 Mike C.

Re Condi in 2008.
While I do think that he stint as provost at Stanford would have contributed to her understanding of administrative processes and while I don't think that that is even a stumbling block, I certainly agree with your conclusion.

She's just not quite ready yet. Evidently, having seen most of the coverage of her trip to he EU and the ME, she still needs to improve on the self-confidence.
I suppose this was her first big trip as head of a delegation and I think it showed. Before she was travelling with the President and others who took the limelight off of her. Now, its all her and she still needs to learn to deal with that. Not that she handled it badly, no, in fact she handled things better than most, its just that I thought her voice was trembling at times and at other times, such as being pictured with a bunch of Palestinian thugs or next to that picture of the fish, I thought, hmmmm, perhaps a more experienced hand would have known how to avoid those situations.

Anyway, she's a clever girl and will figure these things out for herlself. She who laughs last laughs best.

178 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 2:58:20am

Uh oh, having a Godfather III moment...

"Just when I'm out, they PULL ME BACK IN!" :)

The thing you do not WANT to understand is, you can't disarm the criminals, and disarming law-abiding citizens is plainly wrong. What the gov't is threatening to do right now is to disarm law-abiding citizens and has the gall of using as an excuse that some people are asking for a refendum. Ha'aretz called a referendum 'anti-democratic' and the left swallowed that - not surprising. But why do YOU swallow it?

You're putting words in my mouth.

What I wrote is that the Kahanists are inciting themselves (not just asking for a referendum, but being their usual violent-sounding selves, which is easy after one of their members shot 29 praying Arabs to death.)

The Kahanists are hurting the wrong people by their actions.

It's hurting them. It's hurting other Jews. It's hurting other "settlers" more than anyone.

If Israel starts believing their hype and thinks they're ready to shoot Israel's own soldiers or something, then guns will be taken.

The Kahanists will NOT try to curb their violent sounding rhetoric, no matter what they intend to do about anything in reality.

This is not good for Israel.

My opinion about the US administrations has not changed since my FIRST post on this board, and I have always stated it in exactly the same manner.

Well, lots of people hate America and Israel.

Fuck you

Noted and bookmarked.

See you later.

179 Mike C.  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:00:03am

# 168 Mr. Pol

WRT to Israel, ANY US administration is guilty until proven innocent. That's what 'having a record' means.

OK, I think you may have crossed the line with that one. Please supply us with a comprehensive list of countries who have a better record of supporting Israel than the US. I eagerly look forward to your reply on this one.

I would make one more point. W is President of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Dr. Rice is Secretary of Stae of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Neither of them holds office in Israel. They have no legal, ethical or moral obligation to anybody or anything other than their sworn duty to the THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. While it hasn't (in my opinion) happened yet, nor is it likely to in the foreseeable future, if the day ever does come when the interests of the US directly conflict with those of Israel or any other country, I, as an American citizen, fully expect my government to support the interest of the US and to hell with anybody else. Our staunchest ally in the world today, at least in the recent past, has been Great Britain. We fought two wars against Great Britain. Our revolution succeed in large part due to support from France, and yet today we could hardly be described as close allies, regardless of any political platitudes bandied about of late. Things change over time. But the oath that W took just the other week pretty much says it all. It is (again, in my opinion) our interest to support Israel and to oppose those that would crush her. But the only valid rational for that view is that doing so is in OUR interest. The fact that it's in Israel's interest is irrelevant.

180 Mike C.  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:02:38am

# 172 hm

I think I noticed something about that go by, but haven't read the original stuff. Links ?

181 foreign devil  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:05:50am

OT: CNN reporting that a 30-50 kg. bomb went off in the center of the City of Madrid, Spain right outside a building where the King and Queen of Spain are meeting later today. All Zapatero's butt-kissing hasn't protected any of them. This bomb going off BEFORE the King and Queen meet in this venue is meant to say, I can get to you anytime I want, security notwithstanding.

182 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:06:12am

#179 Mike C.

OK, I think you may have crossed the line with that one. Please supply us with a comprehensive list of countries who have a better record of supporting Israel than the US. I eagerly look forward to your reply on this one.

Unapplicable and meaningless. The is only one country who calls itself an ally of Israel, and it has kept screwing Israel each and every time it could since 1956. Like it or not, the US administrations are definitely not friends of Israel. On the other hand, the American people is the best and most faithful friend one can dream about - and it is a friend of Israel.

I do not blame the US administration for looking after the US interests first and foremost. That is their job. At most I can envy you - I'd like my gov't to be like that. I blame them for calling themselves our 'friend' and 'ally'.

183 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:08:39am

#176 Mr Pol

The problem is that there are tens of links. You literally have to click your way through, or, to be more precise, back and forth.

Basically, this is the short of it:

Juan Cole is a (slightly wacko) history professor at the U of Mich.

Recently Cole accused Goldberg - who is a (slightly self-absorbed) journalist and TV pundit - of not volunteering to go to Iraq, i.e. putting his money/body where his mouth is.

Goldberg responded - very lamely IMHO - that he had kids and a family to feed, hence he counldn't go. (It would have been better to attack the premise of Cole's claims)

Anyway, since Goldberg walked right into it, this has developed into a mud slinging contest par excellence. Other sites, such as Kos, are no cheerleading the whole thing. It really is quite a treat to watch and as I mentioned earlier, I am shocked how poorly these guys argue.

Ok, Goldberg might be forgiven, for he is a mere journalist, but a professor of history ought to do better than that.

Coel posts here:
[Link: www.juancole.com...]

Goldberg here:
[Link: www.nationalreview.com...]
Notice, how Goldberg keeps saying that this will be his last post on the topic only to break that pledge within the hour.

184 Mr Pol  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:11:33am

#183 hm

Notice, how Goldberg keeps saying that this will be his last post on the topic only to break that pledge within the hour.

Sounds like wrongasusual Gordon... :-)

Anyway, gotta go now - work calling.

185 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:11:52am

Boy am I glad I resisted the temptation of weighing in on the Rightasrain/Mr. Pol debate...

186 TMF  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:12:57am

OT

Horowitz opposes the firing of Ward Churchill on 1st amendment grounds.

I hope he's fired. I want that mangy cur to suffer in poverty. But we know that wont happen.

187 Mike C.  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:26:24am

# 182 Mr. Pol

Unapplicable and meaningless. The is only one country who calls itself an ally of Israel, and it has kept screwing Israel each and every time it could since 1956. Like it or not, the US administrations are definitely not friends of Israel. On the other hand, the American people is the best and most faithful friend one can dream about - and it is a friend of Israel.

No, it's NOT 'unapplicble' (inapplicable ?) and meaningless. I don't particularly enjoy the scifi-like 'what-if' game, but my guess is that without continuing US support over decades, we wouldn't be discussing this matter today, because Israel would not exist except as a minor and brief historical footnote. The US took a huge economic hit back in 73 by refusing to cave to pressure to drop support for Israel. And I believe you might find the odd veto cast by the US on the UN Security council in support of Israel. One of the primary arguments of the enemies of the US these days is the US' continued support of Israel. Face it, life might well be smoother for the US, at least in some respects, if we just dropped Israel like a bad memory. That's not likely to happen, both because there is a prevelant sentiment for support of Israel in the US (a sentiment US politicians know full well) but also because support of Israel is percieved to be in the long-term strategic interest of the US. If the US is not a 'friend and ally' of Israel, then no one is.

188 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:31:54am

Just as a reminder, 12Z NAM (former ETA) said 4" (10 cm) snow for Islip, which is borderline for cancelling school Friday at St. Martin of Tours, Amityville, NY. The newer 0Z NAM suggested only about half that, about 5 cm, although still about 10 cm for NYC. The 0Z NAM brought the surface low a little closer to the coast, delaying the change from rain to snow. Boston still was looking good for 15 to 20 inches (38 to 50 cm) of snow, after about a centimeter of liquid rain fell first.


I don't have MOS numbers for 06Z NAM, but new 6Z run, at tau=24 hours shows liquid rain approaching BOS, moderate to heavy rain into NYC, Albany about to change from rain to snow. Tomorrow morning at 7am it says still a rain storm New York and Boston.

Early tomorrow afternoon as the low starts to intensify near Block Island, rain starts mixing with snow northern suburbs NYC, but still raining in the city, Long Island and Boston. The rain snow line is then near Worcester, and manly snow is falling west of there.

¡ Que Lastima ! Finally cold enough to snow NYC and most of Long Island, but the precipitation is almost over!

At this point, the rain/snow line is somewhere near the famous Rte 128 corridor, with monster snow storm northern and western suburbs BOS, rain South Shore.

Finally rain turns to snow in BOS Thursday night, and perhaps a quick and sloppy 10 to 15 cm of snow can fall, but a far cry from the 50 cm the model was predicting just yesterday.

189 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:38:00am
190 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:38:11am

#187 Mike C.

Ok, I'll weigh in... just a little bit.
I agree with all of that, especially the part about there being no Israel had it not been for US support.

191 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:40:08am

Snow in Northern Indiana.

Rain snow line near Bloomington, reporting light rain and 2C. In another hour, it should get to 1C, which will allow the wet snow flakes to start reaching the ground.

Not a monster storm, maybe 5 to 10 cm around Indianapolis.

Long range 06Z GFS suggests snow as far south as northern suburbs of Dallas on 2/17.

192 Dirk Diggler  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:41:18am

A large car bomb has detonated in Madrid. No fatalities reported, but 39 were injured in the blast. Spanish Prime Appeaser Zapatero responds by issuing a lame threat to the terrorists...

"ETA and those who support it have no place in political or civil life. Bombs lead only to jail,"

Ohhhhhhhhh, "Bombs lead only to jail". That'll show em'.

193 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:43:36am
194 Mike C.  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:44:24am

# 189 American Infidel

Oh, Australia immediately popped to mind, have no fear. But we never fought a war against Australia, so they weren't a good choice for the particular point I was trying to make. I reserve the right to use all of those sneaky debating tricks every politician uses.

195 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:47:42am
196 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:48:39am

#189 American Infidel

That depends on what the meaning of the word past is.

It's not like PM Bob Hawke (1983-91) was a great fan of the US and neither was that other left winger, Paul Keating (1991-96).
The Labour candidate in the October 2004 elections, Mark Latham, was going to do a cut and run from Iraq, indeed, his entire campaign message was premised on anti-Americanism.

I have this impression that in the case of Australia things depend more on who's in charge than in the case of Britain.

197 AtlasShrugged  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:50:27am

Ot but always relevant
To Whom It May Concern,

The following letter was posted on the internet, and I agree with it most wholeheartedly.

America's Most Wanted's website has performed an important public service both by posting an

alert about the Armanious killings in Jersey City, NJ, and by not shirking

from discussing religion as a possible motive. Many media outlets have

played-up robbery as a motive, and, for understandable reasons, downplayed

religious intolerance. We believe that the time has come for AMW to feature

this case in its television show, with the same unflinching honesty achieved

in the web coverage. We believe that recent events support this decision.

During the past few weeks, news sources such as the Philadelphia Inquirer,

Newsday, and WNBC (see links to these stories below) have reported on an

Islamic website (since taken off the web), that posted photographs of people

deemed hostile to Islam by virtue of their postings in chat rooms. In at

least one case, the person's photo, name and address were posted. The

Armanious family was there. This, in itself, is not proof of a religious

motive in the killings.

Ironic in its timing, Freedom House's recent release of an 89 page report on

hate literature freely available in American Mosques, gives further context

to the Jersy City killings. Please see:

[Link: freedomhouse.org...]

for a press release on this report- the full version of which may be

downloaded from :

[Link: freedomhouse.org...]

The contents of the report, "Saudi Publications on Hate Ideology Fill

American Mosques" are frightening enough. Yet on page 19 it describes a

Lebanese Chairman of the Islamic Supreme Council of America as being

surprised during a 1990's visit to a Jersey City Mosque to find "Wahhabism

being preached...So I started my research. Whatever mosque I went to, it

was Wahhabi, Wahhabi, Wahhabi..."

Those familiar with Wahhabism will know its stringent dictates, including

death for apostates. Wahhibism, entrenched in Jersey City for years, is the

environmental background giving yet more weight to the "religious motive"

for the Armanious killings.

The report itself was instigated by American Muslims, concerned that their

own mosques were being overtaken by this ideology of hate. In fact, the

original writer of this letter easily found literature featured in the

report for sale in Brooklyn, New York.

We believe that moderate American Moslems, if given a chance, can behave as

did the brave people who instigated the Freedom House report. We would like

AMW to feature this case on TV, in the way its producers think best, and

would hope that it could send an appeal to moderate Muslims, and to anyone

else who might have information on the Armanious case, to come forward.

Here are the news links referenced above:

WNBC New York

ttp[Link: www.wnbc.com...]

Philadelphia Inquirer:

[Link: www.philly.com...]

Newsday:

[Link: www.newsday.com...]

AMW has done an excellent job on this case so far, and we hope that a next

step can be taken. Thanks for your vital, ongoing public service.

Sincerely,

198 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:51:02am

#192 Dirk Diggler

"ETA and those who support it have no place in political or civil life. Bombs lead only to jail,"

Hmmm, is Zapatero jumping to conclusions?!?

Wasn't he the one blaming Aznar for blaming ETA before the facts were known?!?

199 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:52:24am
200 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:53:21am

Doesn't anyone want to discuss Cole-Goldberg?

:-(

201 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:53:43am

I'm resisting the temptation to sound gloatey about the latest Spanish attack. But what else can you say? The moron Socialists pinned a giant HIT ME sign on the country as soon as they ran from Iraq.

202 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:54:27am

HM:

I like Jonah Goldberg, a lot. I'll bite

203 FabioC.  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:55:51am

#201

Well, at least do not forget that Zapatero took not more than 55% of the votes.

204 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:58:26am

#199 American Infidel

Technically that is true, but obviously the history between the US and Britain extends much further back than that between the US and Australia.

In addition, Australia has up until very recently hardly been involved in international politics at all.
Luckily John Howard changed that and his country is better off for it.

But anyway, comparing statistics is a bit misleading when the number of samples/test cases varies so greatly.

205 jumpinjack414  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 3:59:14am

And I would have got away with it, if it weren't for those meddling bloggers !

Zoinks!

206 TMF  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:00:45am

hm

Couldnt agree more with your analysis. Goldberg is witty and sharp but his replies are weak.

Its the premise that is absurd. I cant opine on Iraq b/c I didnt volunteer to fight in our military?

Ok. I guess I cant comment on the Peace Corps either, because, like, I wont get off my chickenhawk ass and hand out rice to kids in Somalia.

I guess I cant comment on the state of education in this country b/c I wont get off my chickenhawk ass and get a job teaching social studies at Malcolm X High in Harlem.

What a dildo that COle and his ilk are.

207 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:00:46am
208 TMF  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:02:01am

RE: Madrid bombing

WHere are all the slacker college students with "PAZ" signs protesting in the streets?

209 Mike C.  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:02:32am

# 195 American Infidel

Hell, if you're going into a fight, you simply couldn't want much more than the Aussies at your back. Tough bastards. For that matter, when they put their minds to it, Canadians are no slackers, either.

During GW I, the airport at Doha, Qatar (the only airport in the country, back then) was completely taken over by coalition military forces. These consisted of the Qatari air force, of course, a squadron of French F-1s, a squadron of Canadian F-18As and two squadrons of US F-16s. The Qatari airforce and the French flew CAP over the Qatari penninsula, just in case the Iraqis decided to make a suicide attack through almost every air asset the coalition had to deliver a blow to Qatar. The US F-16s were tasked with daylight air-to-ground attacks in Kuwait and in Iraq itself. 3 out of 22 US F-16s based in Qatar were shot down, including that guy who was on the cover of Newsweek back then. The photo was released by Iraq and he was pretty beat up. The speculation was that the Iraqis had been working him over, but in fact, he had ejected right through the canopy. In any case, the Canadian role was to fly air cover over the F-16 bombing raids. Well, of course, there was actually nothing for the Canadians to do, as the vaunted Iraqi air force never came up. It wasn't too long before there was damned near a mutiny amongst the Canadians, who were sick of just flying in circles while the Americans had all the fun. The Canadian commander finally relented and the F-18As, currently configure as inteceptors, were retrofitted with hard points for 500 # dumb bombs so that Canada, too, could join in the fun. Regardless of their current political leanings, they can be some serious guys when they want to.

210 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:05:22am

#202 Peacekeeper

LOL.

While I can't stand the guy's pompous style, I evidently agree with most of his viewpoints - which makes is only more disappointing that he's been debating so poorly.

Unfortuntately for him, he won't come out of this unscathed. The damage has been done, as exemplified by the fact that he doesn't seem able to walk away from this, even though he keeps proclaiming just that.

211 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:06:00am

The fact that Goldberg is not a veteran, or currently serving is not damning. Now, I never served in the military either, and I always regretted it. I did serve the US on the Bosnia Peacekeeping mission in Bosnia as a police advisor (I wore a blue beenie and drove a white jeep). That was a seminal (hence the moniker) experience. As an aside, I know the UN, everything said about them at LGF is true- save that thread for some other time.

212 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:06:07am
213 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:10:10am

Back to Goldberg.

The guy is a brilliant writer, though he has toned down as he has risen in the ranks. He's at his best when he's flippant. I'd bet he regrets not serving (that's merely my suspicion), and because he believes in what he says, the "chickenhawk" label is kryptonite for him. Yes, I'm reading a lot of my own self into this analysis.

214 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:12:31am
215 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:14:25am

#206 TMF

The analogy Goldberg should have used is that of a policeman or firefighter.
Assuming, for arguments sake, that I don't want to join either of those two outfits because they represent dangerous jobs, does that mean I can't support what they do?

216 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:16:21am

Now, Jonah Goldberg has a family. I left my wife for a year when I was 34 to serve in Bosnia (which, was not combat). It was the most difficult thing I've ever done. If we'd had a child or children I don't think a ever could have done it.
We have a society that is protected by volunteers. A man who supports our troops and is a clear thinker is doing a lot for them. Most Vets only ask that somebody acknowlege their service- something the MSM still dances around.

217 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:19:39am

#211 Peacekeeper

Agreed. Which is exactly why he should have never gotten himself involved in this fight, and especially not with such poor arguments as "I have to stay in DC to feed my wife and kids".

I think he realizes his mistake now, which is why he can't let go of it, which, in turn, only makes matters worse.

218 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:20:18am

Goldberg

These leftists that yell "Chickenhawk!" are full of it, as garden variety chickens they presume to (excuse me) "foul" the reputations of both our leaders and our military.

219 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:24:46am
220 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:25:50am

Goldberg wrote an interesting critique, suggesting "Groundhog Day" is the seminal motion picture of our times, in the most recent deadtree 'National Review'.

221 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:26:26am

Military service, rather lack of it, is his weak spot. The leftists are anti-military so it is no problem for them to be anti-military, they are just playing to their base.
It hurt to see Jonah take that hit, the lame response was like seeing teeth fly in a boxing match. We all take hits and we move on.
He's not alone though, my guess from reading NR and NRO is that most, if not all those young turks come from upper class families, and military service was never an option for them. I am willing to be corrected on that ...

222 Dirk Diggler  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:26:29am

Re: Cole

Goldberg,

You can't win a pissing contest with a prick.

223 RayH  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:26:59am

Hmmm. Look at the ruckus I started between Mr Pol and rightasrain. Didn't mean to do that. But as for Condi talking about a contiguous border for palestine, is that her personal position or is she giving the administration's position?
I for one hope the talks fall through. We all know that the palis want to destroy Israel and won't be satisfied with just a portion.
One possible outcome of this is that Abbas and Sharon do agree to the contiguous strip and then the palis start launching attacks from said strip. In which case Israel strikes back and takes the land back to protect itself.

224 Raven1  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:27:22am

Ed, I suppose you enjoy telling us in Worcester, MA we're getting more snow! I just had to buy a new pair of snowboots that reach up to almost my knees. With this new foot+ snow on the way, the snow will be higher than the top of my boots!

225 mglazer  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:28:25am

Alright LGF POWER!

Why hasn't the MSM been airing this incredbile story?

Does the MSM support Jordan?

226 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:29:48am

Ed,
The Groundhog Day essay was Goldberg at his best. He's a more versatile writer than say, Rich Lowry because his repetoire (I know I butchered that word) is so eclectic.

227 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:30:38am

Goldberg's latest has nothing about Cole, and because it is about foster parents who starved and tortured the foster kids, not particularly funny.

Long before I had LGF I had NRO and Jewish World Review, which is an outstanding resource for conservative commentary.

228 Darleen  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:31:50am

totally OT, but one of my regular lefty readers of my blog (pretty cool gal despite the delusional politics) forwarded this bit of offal from magazine. (and I make some choice comments on at my blog)

Hunger for Dictatorship

War to export democracy may wreck our own.

The last weeks of 2004 saw several explicit warnings from the antiwar Right about the coming of an American fascism. Paul Craig Roberts in these pages wrote of the “brownshirting” of American conservatism ...

Several weeks later, Justin Raimondo, editor of the popular Antiwar.com website, wrote a column headlined, “Today’s Conservatives are Fascists.” ...

His fellow libertarian, Mises Institute president Lew Rockwell, wrote a year-end piece called “The Reality of Red State Fascism,” which claimed that “the most significant socio-political shift in our time has gone almost completely unremarked, and even unnoticed. ...

Rockwell (and Roberts and Raimondo) is correct in drawing attention to a mood among some conservatives that is at least latently fascist. When USA Today founder Al Neuharth wrote a column suggesting that American troops be brought home sooner rather than later, he was blown away by letters comparing him to Tokyo Rose and demanding that he be tried as a traitor. That mood, Rockwell notes, dwarfs anything that existed during the Cold War. “It celebrates the shedding of blood, and exhibits a maniacal love of the state. The new ideology of the red-state bourgeoisie seems to actually believe that the US is God marching on earth—not just godlike, but really serving as a proxy for God himself.”

229 Darleen  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:34:07am

Opps... That was The American Conservative magazine...

PIMF (I keep thinking I need to put "conservative" in scare quotes when referring to that tool of Buchannanites)

230 Free Speech Is Only For über-Libs  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:34:29am

Anti-American leftist journalists can lie with impunity.

Anyone who is even slightly on the "right" or who could be possibly labeled as "conservative" must be called out as such and discounted. That's the new world order.

Who is in charge? leftists and Islamonazis.
Davos style *applause*

231 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:35:28am

Goldberg

My computer just hiccuped, I may drop off without warning

232 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:37:34am
233 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:37:56am

Darleen:


I've noticed how a poster at LGF who criticizes a member of the MSM who makes outrageous charges about the military is tagged by an LLL blogger for "blog-thuggery". Angry letters to the editor now seem to constitute "fascism".


Hmmmm. Interesting.

234 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:38:57am

Goldberg

I like his humor too, Ed. Do you see a trend recently with him becoming "more serious"? I miss the spot reviews of TV and movies.

235 Raven1  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:39:30am

Michelle Malkin has a column in today's New York Post about Eason Jordan, with the headline:CNN Slimes Our Troops:

236 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:39:41am
237 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:42:09am

American Infidel

"Hannity & Skeletor "


HA!

238 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:43:45am
239 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:45:23am

Lefty bloggers bring down conservative White House reporter who also had a side business.


Unfortunately, the side business was apparently a gay website for men with a military fetish.

Bonus points if anyone can tell me what "Gang of Four" song is currently playing in my brain.

(Hint: "I need an order!")

240 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:46:01am

236

Perhaps the WMO started the tsunami to cover their tracks?

241 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:46:06am

The thing with the UN is that the positions are filled with 3rd world bureaucrats. Payola, skimming and kickbacks are business as usual in these places, OF COURSE they carry this over. How do you think Kofi made it big in Ghana fer cryin out loud? When I was in Bosnia, the UN regulars were always doing stupid shit, I could write a book.

242 Raven1  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:47:36am

Take off Alan Colmes glasses, paint him green, he looks exactly like the grinch from the Grinch Who Stole Christmas.

243 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:48:33am

AI (Can I call you AI? You can call me PK)

Skeletor is perfect. Is he naturally wierd looking or was he burned or something? If so I guess I should shut up.

244 Free Speech Is Only For über-Libs  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:48:45am
245 Poitiers-Lepanto  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:48:46am

#228 Darleen

“Today’s Conservatives are Fascists.” ...

Delightful.

I presume that this kind of sentences announce a call to "resistance" against "fascism".
It happened like that in Europe in the Seventies: whoever was not a commie was labeled a "fascist" and in a few years this kind of dementia (well organized dementia) led to the birth of terrorist organizations (Rote Armee Fraktion, Brigate Rosse, Action Directe etc. etc.).

In our case today, the demented antiAmericans can ask for help to their friends, the ilsamofascists.

This is in fact what Churchill is doing.

246 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:49:33am
247 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:51:02am

Boss wants me, may be a while

248 sportutegrl  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:51:19am

Powerline quotes a Chris Carla: "Look, I think Jordan is a massive tool (see his comments on CNN and Iraq), but a hastily backtracked misstatement made in a situation where he was trying to "act big" (as we use to call it in elementary school) for some VIPs simply fails to rise to the level of Rathergate."

This gets to the heart of the problem I have with this. The left doesn't want to be seen as non-patriotic, yet they diss their country to OUTSIDERS. Even if you accept the liberal argument that anti-americanism type statements are so much constructive criticism, what can complaining to foreigners do? We as americans have a duty to present our country in as positive light as possible whenever overseas. This is why the Dixie Chicks comments in England are so troubling. If you must complain, do it here in the states where it may bring about change. True love of country often consists of standing tall around America haters even if that means verbal abuse or worse. Doing anything less is chickens***.

249 Raven1  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:53:29am

#239 Ed, Would that song be I Love A Man In a Uniform? That's a blast from the past!

250 American Infidel[deleted]  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:53:47am
251 krazykounselor  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:54:26am

#186 TMF

My older brother attended the University of Colorado and took a Native American History class taught by Ward Churchill. He says that while he is obviously pretty far to the left, he will very often make contraversial, sometimes contradictory statements to encourage debate in his classes.

252 LSD  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 4:56:38am
According to the Eason supporter, Eason just wants the controversey to go away...

Message to MSM and LLL:

"Don't START nothin'.....won't BE nothin...

253 BringMeTuri  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:00:47am

Raven1

...to have ambition..... WAS MY AMBITION !

one of the great lines from the Post-Punk era. They actually played Gof4 on the radio back in the day before playlists were controlled by computers.

254 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:02:12am

Re Cole/Goldberg

Unfortunately, by hastily walking into a semi-clever trap, Goldberg is perpetuating this leftist notion that if you don't volunteer to go to Iraq you have no business supporting the whole endeavor.

By responding in such a pitiful way, Goldberg has led the left to believe that there aren't any better arguments and that therefore their hypothesis is proven to be true.

I really wish someone with a bit of intellectual and rhetorical pedigree, such as perhaps David Frum, would weigh in here and demonstrate why not volunteering to go to Iraq does not mean you can't support the effort.

255 TMF  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:02:56am

#251 kk

My younger brother attended U of C. He drank alot of beer and skied very often.

He took useful classes in finance and business management and made probably close to 7 figures in the 90s day trading.

He took no classes starring Mr. Churchill.

If he had, he'd probably be living in my parents basement.

256 Raven1  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:05:03am

#253 BringMeTuri
Ah yes, The Good Old Days! I sure do miss all those great old bands.

257 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:07:37am

Re my #254

The Powerline guys can also be relied on to make a compelling and rhetorically attractive argument.

But I suppose the guys on the Goldberg side of the argument are reluctant to weigh in for fear of getting caught up in all the mud slinging.

258 BingoBunny  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:08:32am

I sent a email to CNN asking that they investigate and report on the truth or not of Easton's statements. and fire him if he lied. I expect to be waiting a long time for that story to be done by CNN, but if Bush has another fake military report show up.. maybe with him haveing sex with a Iraq woman prisoner in abu greb.. I'm sure CNN will run that.

when the media hates its own viewers and lies to them they are not part of the solution . they are the problem.

CNN should move to Europe and get closer to the audience of anti americans they seek. Don't let the door hit ya in the A** .

259 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:10:30am

#251 krazykounselor

Only because he's wrong on most things doesn't mean he's wrong on everything.
I certainly thought his argument against the conferment of monopoly rights to Indian "artists" was valid - even if born out of self-interest.

However, up to now that has been the only instance that I know of where Ernesto has seen the light.

260 Shammer  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:12:05am

#239 Ed

Bonus points if anyone can tell me what "Gang of Four" song is currently playing in my brain.(Hint: "I need an order!")

I'll take "I love a man in uniform" for the win Johnny....er...Ed

261 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:12:40am

249

Indeed, Ms. Raven

New 12Z ETA still says raining hard in Wooostuh at 7 am tomorrow.

Probably still rain at 1 pm in Woostah and NYC, just west of their manly snows.

All snow NYC, BOS and ORH by early evening, although its winding down in NYC.

THU 06Z 10-FEB 0.8 0.9 1010 0.07 540
THU 12Z 10-FEB 0.7 1.8 1004 0.49 541
THU 18Z 10-FEB 0.1 -0.1 998 0.36 539
FRI 00Z 11-FEB -1.4 -4.6 996 0.43 532
FRI 06Z 11-FEB -3.1 -10.0 996 0.07 528
FRI 12Z 11-FEB -5.0 -12.0 997 0.09 526


That is the 12Z NAM (new name for ETA) Machine Output Statistics for ORH (Whoooostah).
1st is surf temp, *C, second is 850 mb temp, adjusted surface pressure, liquid equivalent precip (inches, multiply by 2.54 for cm), and 1000-500 mb thickness in decameters. The thicknesses suggest snow the entire event, but surface and 850 mb temps suggest liquid rain until about 1 pm tomorrow, after which about .6 inches (1.5 cm) liquid equivalent snow, or about 6 inches (15 cm) of snow.


Henry Margusity at Pro.AccuWeather.com argues the model may be a touch warm, and snowfall amounts in the Northeast may be higher, but compared to the 30 to 50 cm I though you were getting yesterday, well, can't help but be disappointed.

Lets hope so, because this would also mean just a dusting of snow in Amityville after the big rain storm, meaning no snow day at St. Martin of Tours.

262 Studsup  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:14:47am

News today is that an Iraqi reporter was killed by the Jihadis. I lay this one right at Eason's doorstep. By announcing the lie, he has given, perhaps deliberately, justification for Jihadis to kill reporters that would publish work critical of Jihad -- after all, they will claim that it's OK since the US soldiers are doing the same thing.


Good work Jordan. Have you applied to Osama for your medal yet?

263 WriterMom  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:16:55am

OT: How stupid, how irritating...

Israel to remove checkpoints-leaving security to Palestinians.

Unbelievable.

264 TMF  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:17:20am

If you like Gang of Four, these guys are like them except on speed and muchscarier.

265 Raven1  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:19:12am

#261-Ed
You Ms. Understand me, I am a he, not a she.

266 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:20:47am

#262 Studsup

Now now, lets not develop the types of chains of causality that are so characteristic of the left.
The only people responsible for that are the terrorists themselves.

As for Jordan, I just wish the WEF would stop this damn stonewalling so that we can all see/hear what exactly it was that this asswipe said.

267 transient  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:20:55am

OT:

Shibley Telhami and Martin Indyk at this moment guests on Diane Reim show on public radio. Call with actual sensible questions or concerns (as opposed to the usual public radio listeners)!

268 WriterMom  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:23:59am

Martin Indyk is pathetic.

269 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:24:36am

265

Thanks for ruining my mental image of you as a really cool punk chick with raven colored hair and a leather jacket.

270 krazykounselor  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:26:42am

#259 hm

I don't believe Churchill should be fired. If we do not have the right to say contraversial, unpopular things that piss people off, then someone define freedom of speech for me.

271 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:28:26am

Ok, I guess the Goldberg thing is over?

272 krazykounselor  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:28:32am

#255 TMF

He took no classes starring Mr. Churchill.
If he had, he'd probably be living in my parents basement.

My brother is doing just fine, thank you very much.

273 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:30:25am

#271 Peacekeeper

Not from where I'm standing.

274 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:31:07am

270 Krazy

Should he be fired about lying about being Native American?


You think the taxpayers of Colorado should support whatever he says?

If David Duke got hired by the UC system, and he said something of similar vileness, say, "all the blacks lynched during the days of Jim Crow had it coming to them", do you still think the state should pay his salary?

275 TMF  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:31:25am
My brother is doing just fine, thank you very much.

So he's not living in a basement?

276 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:31:34am

Churchill can say stuff, whatever he likes. If he's lied and pumped up his resume (as has been alleged) they should fire him for that. I'm sure some moonbat institution is ready to pull out a chair for him.

277 Raven1  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:31:47am

Sorry to dissappoint Ed, the Raven bit is from a Raven's nest I discovered on a huge communications tower on Asnebumskit Hill, elev 1396ft. in nearby Paxton Ma. I was watching the pair of Ravens doing their mating dance in the air a few days ago. Won't be long and there will be little Ravens flying around.

278 Studsup  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:34:23am

#266 hm -- "Now now, lets not develop the types of chains of causality that are so characteristic of the left.
The only people responsible for that are the terrorists themselves."

You are correct to point out that direct causality is unlikely. The Jihadis might have killed him without any specific provocation in any event. There is a renewed fatwa out on the author of Satanic Verses. So there is nothing really new about muslims killing people who they disagree with.

But, it is not a stretch to believe that Eason's comments, particularly in that forum, become part of a base of justification for and/or the archeticture of moral equivalecy that the LLL has used to promote Jihad and to prevent the rallying of US/Western opposition to it.

Eason must be called to account for his statements. If true, prove it. If false, resign and retire.

It is potentially a massive slander of every officer and trooper in our armed forces and it needs to be proven or demonstated as an evil myth.

279 krazykounselor  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:34:39am

#276 Peacekeeper

If he's lied and pumped up his resume (as has been alleged) they should fire him for that.

I agree with you on that. I simply believe that he should not be fired on the basis of his comments.

280 TMF  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:35:38am

#274 Ed

Or, consistent with Mr. Churchills and the lefts particular fetish, if a professor said "All arabs are dirty terrorist camel scum and should be eliminated from the face of the earth", would KK and the ACLU be fighting for his "first amendment freedoms?"

281 krazykounselor  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:35:41am

#275 TMF

So he's not living in a basement?

Correct.

282 krazykounselor  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:36:58am

#280

Or, consistent with Mr. Churchills and the lefts particular fetish, if a professor said "All arabs are dirty terrorist camel scum and should be eliminated from the face of the earth", would KK and the ACLU be fighting for his "first amendment freedoms?"

Yes; like I said, we have the unique right to say things that piss people off.

283 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:37:55am

#270 krazykounselor

As someone who holds a rather strong free speech conviction - for which I've been chastized here - I agree, he shouldn't be fired for speaking his mind, even if its all vile and reprehensible trash.

But there are other considerations, such as whether his extreme bias is affecting the quality of his teaching.

284 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:40:24am

Goldberg V 2.0

He should drop the whole slapfest. Like Dirk said (sort of), he will not get the last word.

A year or more past NRO launched a point counterpoint thing with moonbat Eric Alterman. It ran once. If my reaction was typical, then they heard from readers that they did not tune in NRO to read insulting, condescending screeds from Alterman.

NRO hasn't evolved for a while. I see Jonah Goldberg getting more serious (boring) and too many of the staff seem to be Ivy league silver spoon types. Derbyshire was complaining in the corner the other day about how strangers were giving him advice. DUH! You post in a blog and you get responses? OUTrageous.

LGF beats the hell out of the Corner. Much more quantity, the quality (gasp) is often much better, people speak their actual minds, and best of all, we get to participate.

285 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:40:51am

#276 Peacekeeper

Apparently he doesn't have a Phd which makes one wonder how he got to be professor. I always thought th one was a necessary condition for attaining the other.

286 TMF  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:42:27am

hm

He doesnt have a PHD?!?!?!?

Thats unheard of in academia at the state university level. THat cant be right. If so, then the process leading to his promotion realllllllllllly needs to be looked at closely!

287 krazykounselor  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:43:03am

# 283 hm

As someone with teaching aspirations, I understand how vital it is to not let personal bias affect the quality of one's teaching.

I have read some of his works for my classes at Fort Lewis College, namely on the subject of European colonization of Brazil. His arguments often fail to hold water, and I think many of his ideas are deeply flawed. But contraversial opinions are an integral part of the educational system; they force people to think for themselves. Is that not what education is about?

288 Thom  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:43:50am

Peace in our time watch:

16:29 Palestinian man found dead outside Khan Yunis; Hamas says he died in `work accident`

16:17 Palestinian witnesses: Palestinian critically wounded by gunfire from Atzmona settlement in southern Gaza Strip

14:40 Senior Palestinian officials: Hezbollah trying to orchestrate attacks on Israelis in order to torpedo truce

14:29 Sharon rejects argument that pullout bill is not legitimate because it was passed by vote of Arab MK

13:33 Minister Shalom Simhon: Labor should declare that it will quit government if PM decides to hold referendum

{uh oh}

12:32 Israel reopens Erez crossing; Palestinian workers will be able to cross from Gaza to Israel on Thursday

{uh oh}

10:57 Palestinians open fire near northern West Bank settlement of Gadid; no injuries

07:54 PLC member Abu Ziyad: Despite Hamas statement that it`s not bound by truce, it will maintain quiet if Israel does

{Damn those bastards.}

05:59 Gush Katif junction in central Gaza Strip opens to Palestinian traffic

{uh oh}

04:32 New U.S. government-funded research centre to study what makes people adopt terrorist tactics, help prevent attacks

{government dumbasses}

289 krazykounselor  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:44:34am

#285 hm

Many professors who teach lower level courses (at my school, anyway) do not have Ph.D's, but are working on them at the moment.

290 Thom  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:45:23am

Deep Thoughts™ by krazykounselor:

My friend Gray and I came up with a cynical idea for a new reality show: average Americans get to spend one week as the dictator of a developing country. After one week, they cede power back to the one in charge before. Makes for high quality entertainment.

No comment.

291 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:46:06am

Ward Churchill has no PHD? So what, he's radical.

292 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:46:09am

Breaking News- Ward Churchill still a Grade A Jumbo Ass-hat!

"I am not backing off an inch," said Ward Churchill, drawing an ovation from a standing-room-only crowd of about 1,200 students and backers gathered in a ballroom. "I owe no one an apology."

"I do not work for the taxpayers of Colorado, and I don't work for Bill Owens. I work for you," Churchill told the audience.


Does that mean the not quite a Doctor Churchill will teach for free?

293 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:46:18am

#278 Studsup

Agreed.
He certainly is partly repsonsible for creating the conditions that provide terrorists not only with "moral" justifications but also with a more advantageous breeding ground.

This doesn't mean he shouldn't be allowed to say whatever he wants but he should certainly bear the consequences, i.e. either explain himself or get the hell out of the sptolight.

But first of all the WEF censorship department needs to get out of the way of the truth and release the evidence.

294 krazykounselor  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:46:25am

#290 Thom

Thanks for yet another irrelevent counterpunch, Thom.

295 Geepers  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:46:36am

Peacekeeper (#276),

If he's lied

If?

The only way Ward can make his point is by making shit up:

Truth tricky for Churchill

Thomas Brown, a professor of sociology at Lamar University, has written a paper that outlines what looks like a more conventional form of academic fraud on Churchill's part. According to Brown, Churchill fabricated a story about the U.S. Army intentionally creating a smallpox epidemic among the Mandan tribe in 1837, by simply inventing almost all of the story's most crucial facts, and then attributing these "facts" to sources that say nothing of the kind.

"One has only to read the sources that Churchill cites to realize the magnitude of his fraudulent claims for them," Brown writes. "We are not dealing with a few minor errors here. We are dealing with a story that Churchill has fabricated almost entirely from scratch. The lack of rationality on Churchill's part is mind-boggling." (Brown's essay can be read here: [Link: hal.lamar.edu...]


and:

Similar charges have been leveled against Churchill by University of New Mexico law professor John Lavelle, a Native American scholar who has documented what appear to be equally fraudulent claims on Churchill's part regarding the General Allotment Act, one of the most important federal laws dealing with Indian lands. (Lavelle also accuses Churchill of plagiarism).

But hey who cares if he's a liar, fraud and plagiarist? It's not like he was the head of a University board or just made up his PHd. Oh, wait...

296 TMF  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:46:46am
contraversial opinions are an integral part of the educational system; they force people to think for themselves. Is that not what education is about?

Maybe in the "soft sciences" of literature, "cultural studies" et al that is true.

It sure as hell ain't true in mathematics, electrical engineering, organic chemistry and medicine.

I imagine there arent too many "rebel voices" in the area of teaching heart surgery.

297 Thom  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:47:14am

Travails of a dumbass, by krazykounselor:

I was going to go to the gym to play basketball this afternoon with Noah, but I got there to ask for a ball, and they said the gym was closed today.
298 TMF  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:48:08am

#289 kk

Dude, he's the HEAD OF THE DEPARTMENT!

299 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:48:26am

GEEPERS

By if, I meant the rhetorical if. Churchills a turd. period.

300 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:49:40am

Re Ernesto Churchill's PhD (or lack thereof)

I don't know this for a fact.
One of the posters here has been pointing it out for the past weeks.

301 krazykounselor  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:50:48am

#298 TMF

As I have said before, a fraudulent resume is grounds for immediate termination, no exceptions. My argument that firing should be on THOSE grounds, not in response to his comments.

302 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:51:52am

What Department? Wasn't it ethnic studies or some such bilge?

303 Sarah D.  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:51:59am

Churchill has an honorary PHD. What also needs to be figured out is when he got his honorary title, and when he was promoted. Before? After? And why?

304 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:54:22am

Now we got a flame war going. Great. I shoulda stuck with the Goldberg thing...

305 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:54:40am

#187 Mike C.

Mr Pol hates the Israeli government even more than he hates the American government. He hasn't accused Bush or Condi of murder yet.

He seems to have no idea that bashing Bush unfairly (as being 'guilty until proven innocent') is going to bother some of the Americans who just voted Mr. Bush into office after a long, brutal compaign where our internal enemies bashed Bush unfairly (as being 'guilty until proven innocent'), too.

His conspiracy theories are also absurd.

It's one thing to bring up what Condi said with some concern over the meaning, but to decide that she absolutely MUST be talking about the destruction of Israel (she is 'guilty until proven innocent' of doing this, too) is just insane.

What he's doing is precisely what the moonbats at DU do every day.

Something very wrong is going on with him, and I suspect it has nothing to do with hating America's government, Israel's government or hating yours truly.

I worry about him. Something's horribly wrong here.

306 Studsup  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:56:04am

hm -- "But first of all the WEF censorship department needs to get out of the way of the truth and release the evidence."

I think that the WEF is pleased with this result. The slander is out there in the news and they are content to let it simmer and percolate, eventually to be perceived as "truth". It is not in their interest to see the US vindicated on this charge in any respect.

307 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:56:45am

#284 Peacekeeper

Its sad how NRO has stagnated/regressed.
I used to read that site a lot, but not anymore.
Its not only that interaction LGF style is very important but there's also a growing lack of argumentative depth and coherence at NRO.

They keep picking fights which they aren't well prepared for and then end up making petty and silly arguments, such as in the whole Specter episode.

In any case, I'd bet anything that 3/4 of the people over there are really unhappy about what Jonah has gotten himself and NRO into.

308 Dirk Diggler  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:56:48am
Goldberg V 2.0

He should drop the whole slapfest. Like Dirk said (sort of), he will not get the last word.

Actually an actual slapfest, replete with all manner of punching, kicking, gouging, and biting, would be more dignified.

309 Geepers  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:57:00am

krazykounselor,

But contraversial [sic] opinions are an integral part of the educational system; they force people to think for themselves. Is that not what education is about?

No it's not.

Was that to uncontroversial for you to wrap your head around?

310 traveler  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:57:47am

Fasten your seatbelts, CNN -- that bastion of hard journalism -- begins the spin for Eason Jordan

CNN "clarifies" comments on Jordan.....

311 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 5:59:55am

#288 Thom

I've been watching the same display of bad signs go by on Ha'aretz today.

It sure doesn't sound like a ceasefire to me.

312 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:01:12am

#306 Studsup

I take it as circumstantial evidence that the WEF founder, Klaus Schwab, is German.

On a more serious note, I do think that the WEF is trying to appease these leftist anti-globalization asswipes so that they'll stop disrupting their meetings and cause bad publicity.

And there sure isn't a better way of appeasing leftist asswipes than by slanderding the US.

313 J.D.  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:01:16am

#310 traveler
Good. Then I guess the tape of the remarks he made that day can be released. Shouldn't be a problem.

314 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:02:49am

#308 Dirk Diggler

Good point. ;-)

315 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:03:25am

307 hm

I'm with you on this one. I like to bring it up in hopes they will see they are starting to stagnate. A long time ago they decided that the Corner was only for Staff- they said that admitting general posts would open them to criticism from the left (someone would say something RADICAL) -As if that was something they should've been worried about. ..


The Corner is/has morphed into more of a self congratulatory tea party. They made the wrong choice.

316 Bob with one O  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:03:41am

Sorry Krazy but Freedom of Speech does not equate with Freedom from Consequences.

317 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:06:23am

#310 traveler
#313 J.D.

They still don't get it do they?!?

The days when a simple smokescreen will make these things go away are over.

We know there's a tape so we won't stop talking about it until that tape is realesed an everyone can see for themselves what this asswipe said.

318 Studsup  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:06:27am

#293 hm,

I took a visit to the WEF website. It's funny with it's irony. One of it's board members is Jermyn Brooks.

His CV lists his current association with the following organization:

"Transparency International"

"Non-governmental organization dedicated to increasing government accountability and curbing both international and national corruption."

I get it, "transparency" for thee but not for me.

WEF allowed it's forum to be used as a launching pad for a serious charge against the USA and its armed forces. Apparently the charge was well-received and held creditably by a significant number of those in attendance. Now the author of the charge weaves and dodges about it and denies to the larger public having made it. WEF has it within it's power to accurately frame the charge and the issue for public debate but is refusing.

I think the WEF could stand for some more transparency.

319 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:08:45am

#318 Studsup

"I think the WEF could stand for some more transparency"

More likely they'll just denounce Bloggers...

320 traveler  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:08:49am

krazykounselor


But contraversial [sic] opinions are an integral part of the educational system; they force people to think for themselves. Is that not what education is about?

It would be nice if it actually worked that way.

It's a little dicey when the professor has the power to exact revenge with your grades.......the "relationship" becomes a little uneven for honest discord. And with most ego-driven professors leaning leftward, coupled with their belief that they're superior intellectuals that are there to teach the students, not the other way around -- then we're in a bit of a sticky wicket.....

Two books on the unbelievable corrupt state of America's colleges: "Brainwashed" and "Freefall of the American University"

321 traveler  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:09:46am

#320


But contraversial [sic] opinions are an integral part of the educational system; they force people to think for themselves. Is that not what education is about?

that was supposed to be a quote.....PIMF

322 Sarah D.  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:10:39am

Churchill: Honorary doctorate: Alfred University, Alfred, N.Y., 1992

He started, tenured, in 1991. According to this interview.

323 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:13:01am

#316 Bob with one O

True.
However, it does depend on how foreseeable those consequences are.
We've been through the shouting fire in a theater analogy plenty of times here so I won't repeat it - suffice to say that it is reasonably foresseable that such action will result in people rushing for the exits.

But where does one draw the line with "academics" like Ernesto?

For all that I care he can say whatever he wants, so long as its on a blog or in the company of his friends or whatever.

Saying these things in a classroom is a whole different matter altogether. It will likely result in consequences, such as young and impressionable minds leaving those classes taking what he said as truth and not as opinion.

324 Thom  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:15:25am

#316 Bob with one O

Sorry Krazy but Freedom of Speech does not equate with Freedom from Consequences.

Or Freedom from Truth, or Freedom from Academic Merit, Freedom from Responsibility, etc. Lies, libel, and slander do not constitute protected free speech.

We have a dangerously warped view on free speech today [anything goes], and it's getting worse by the day. If we don't recover our sanity, this country is doomed.

325 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:15:38am

#318 Studsup

I second that motion.

Elitist hypocrisy...

326 Geepers  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:16:02am

I don't get it. If Eason feels he's been unfairly represented and misunderstood wouldn't he be pushing hardest for the release of the video of his remarks?

327 foreign devil  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:16:11am

Denmark's Rassmussen returned for a second term. He's hard-line on Immigration.

"...Fogh Rasmussen called for early elections in January, banking on the popularity of his government’s push to preserve Denmark’s welfare state, keep immigration under control and prevent taxes, the second highest in Europe, from rising.

"The results mirrored polls released ahead of the voting predicted an easy win for the 52-year-old Fogh Rasmussen and his government.

"The left-wing Radical Party, an ally of the Social Democrats, was set to get 9.5 % of the votes, up from 5.2 % in 2001 – an increase attributed to the Radical’s high visibility during the campaign.

"“This is a huge, huge day for the Radicals,” party leader Marianne Jelved said.

"Both blocs’ campaigns focused on how to improve the country’s cradle-to-grave welfare state and controlling immigration, leaving little room for other issues, such as Denmark’s military presence in Iraq...."

[Link: news.scotsman.com...]

328 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:17:27am

#322 Sarah D.

Perhaps his honorary doctorate was one of those "affirmative action" measures.

329 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:17:39am

#307 Hm
"Its not only that interaction LGF style is very important but there's also a growing lack of argumentative depth and coherence at NRO. "

I'd guess that the first thing you mention is the cause of the second.

As I've complained before: They have parties for NRO fans, then you read the fine print that you have to show up with a check for $750, or pay $15,000 for a cruise cabin.

Umm, can you say "Country Club Republican"? It's creeping into the discourse in the Corner. Several of 'em actually complain about the Email they get -from fans! Keep it up and soon you won't have any.

330 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:19:19am

Am I being too harsh? Somebody say something...

331 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:19:22am

#326 Geepers

Very true.

Someone ought to ask him that - I wish...

332 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:21:54am

#327 foreign devil

Had a big Nelson Haw Haw moment when I read about the Rasmussen election victory.

All this past week the usual suspects of the EUropean MSM were speculating that Denmark's involvement in Iraq would cost Rasmussen votes.

As it turns out, he gained in comparison to the 2001 elections.

333 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:25:58am

332 Hm

"Had a big Nelson Haw Haw moment "

Nice turn of phrase.

334 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:27:13am

Must be a new thread up, this place is dead.

335 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:27:53am

#330 Peacekeeper

No, you are not being too harsh, in fact, you are right on the money.

If they could get some interaction going it would certainly benefit the quality of their intellectual discourse.
But no, all they are interested in right now is self-congratulatory gestures.

I don't know when precisely all this started but the "Nominate this Man" (i.e. Dean) NR cover from Dec. 2003 certainly didn't help. By that I mean that they were congratulating themselves for bringing down Dean for months on end after that.
I don't think there's any causality between their cover and Dean's implosion, indeed, I think its far more likely that Saddam's capture brought down Dean, plus of course his own wackiness.

As for meeting your "minions" on a Carribean cruiseliner, well, I certainly think the folks at LGF will come up with a bit of a more down to earth proposal if and when there is such a meeting.

336 WriterMom  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:29:18am

#288 Thom

Did you see my #263?

You can add it into the mix. Israel is being so stupid. Those checkpoints save lives. I guess they are more worried about potentially humiliating more harmonica/violin/spoon players than safety.

337 NY Nana  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:30:01am

#288 Thom

Brilliant post. It is a fraud, and I am very fearful as to what will happen. East and West 'Palestine', and Israel?

And this, which is no surprise: Palestinian groups disown truce

Hamas and Islamic Jihad have said they are not bound by the ceasefire agreed between Palestinian and Israeli leaders at a summit in Egypt on Tuesday.

338 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:30:25am

Where Has Everybody Gone?
(The Pretenders)


Ok, this gives me the chance to get out of the house.
"See" you all later.

339 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 6:38:47am

One more thing Re Goldberg before I shoot off.

Yesterday he opened himself up for another huge counterattack by stating that amongst all the hundreds of emails he got from Cole supporters not one mentioned the "moral" dimension of his bet proposal.

Now Goldberg should know that the LLL kids who wrote all those emails are now eagerely going back to what they wrote to prove that Goldberg is lying.

Again, I dont think he's necessarily lying but did he really read all those emails?
Very unlikely.
So why is he mounting a defense based on something he can't know for sure and which is in all likelihood not true?

Jonah, STOP digging.

340 C-Low  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 7:05:11am

I think I just heard about 62million seconds on that!

I love it I have been saying for years that it was going to turn things only go so far bad then they turn back. I love the fact I am actually able to see it and still early in my lifetime hopefully I will be able to enjoy it to. The best part to me is how it is happening, the LLL's and their tech savy colledge as-es are being beat by the very things they thought would cement thier power Cable news and especially the internet. The reason is what I have suspected for years the majority of americans dont believe in the LLL's agenda at all actually very much disagree but the majority work for a living and get their news from the TV and other type sources that the LLL's had total domination over for years since the 60's but Fox and the internet blogs rising have broken that hold and now people see the good the bad of the LLL's and other ideas as well I mean think 10yrs ago the Dan Rather fiasco would the common person ever know that it was a total fake political attack on Bush CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS damm sure wouldnt have told them so who would have? Yes people this time frame of history will go down in the books as the "Renasance of the 21st century"
I love it.

341 NY Nana  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 7:10:54am

OT for a change, but this re Israel, is too true: DISENGAGEMENT or DISASTER?

No matter what your position on Israel's pending withdrawal from land won in a defensive war, this article will make you think.

Contains a number of unpopular, seldom reported facts.

A must-read for activists and others not afraid to question "conventional wisdom".

Israel is presently grappling with a heart rending, soul-searching dilemma. Some call it disengagement, redeployment, resettlement; others call it evacuation, withdrawal, retreat. Living as we do in a mire of misinformation, we are inundated with a never-ending tsunami of words and images. At best, they portray the "news" — bits and pieces of information — but they rarely present the entire picture in intelligent context; at worst, they distort reality to the point where the consumer of all this news cannot possibly differentiate between truth and falsehood. And when the stakes are as high as they are in Israel today, the lack of dependable information to inform public opinion is downright frightening.

Recently, in the Israeli paper Hatzofeh, Boaz Haetzni enumerated a number of unpopular, seldom reported facts. They are worth repeating together with the disturbing questions they engender......

see rest of article

342 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 7:22:11am
343 Geepers  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 7:43:35am

NY Nana (#341),

Thanks for the link, sorta depressing though.

344 NY Nana  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 7:58:44am

#342 Ploome Hineni

Israel excels at so many things..but PR? It sucks big time. What is all the more maddening is the knowledge that Sharon is selling Israel out...and the inevitable massive attack on innocent Jews is already planned.

There is a permanent knot in my stomach...and at the same time, the threat of domestic terrorism is always there....but I never was PC, and see the enemy for what and who it is; the cult of islam. I will bet that wherever any of the posters live, there is a cell within 50 miles....and the same goes for Eurabia, whee they seem to actually be waking up, albeit too slowly, and IMHO, too late.

#343 Geepers

As I read it, I just kept shaking my head. It is depressing, and now? They seem to have opened the barn door and helped all the terrorists go back to their jobs in a chauffeur driven limo. Damn it, it is lunacy.

345 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 8:19:26am

#344 NY Nana

What is all the more maddening is the knowledge that Sharon is selling Israel out..

We don't know this for a fact, though.

As a Rabbi from Judea told me recently, 'Sharon is playing a very dangerous game.'

I think what he's doing is dangerous, too, but I don't think he's selling Israel out.

346 zulubaby  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 8:21:33am

NY Nana,

What is all the more maddening is the knowledge that Sharon is selling Israel out...

He is not solely responsible for what is happening in Israel. I know it's forbidden to criticize the US or Bush, but guess who holds the purse strings? There's more to this than meets the eye.

347 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 8:23:17am

It's also possible that Sharon has found a way to turn the corner in all this (so that NO ONE is selling Israel out.)

348 zulubaby  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 8:26:29am

rightasrain, things do not seem right, I'm not sure what is going on but something is off. I don't trust any of them, they're all politicians. I just don't blame it all on Sharon. He didn't do this on his own.

349 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 8:32:31am

#348 zulubaby

rightasrain, things do not seem right, I'm not sure what is going on but something is off. I don't trust any of them, they're all politicians. I just don't blame it all on Sharon. He didn't do this on his own.

Well, I suspect that it's going to be difficult for all of us to adjust to a new reality if Sharon has found a way to turn the corner on this war.

Sharon got the Arabs to fly the Star of David in Egypt the other day.

Sharon was on an equal footing with those guys in an Arab nation without the U.S. even being there.

I don't know, but I'm wonder if there's more here than meets the eye about how much more power Sharon has in this conflict (at last.)

We'll see, I guess.

350 NY Nana  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 8:38:25am

rightasrain, Zulubaby

I still feel that he is selling Israel out; he carries a lot of baggage with the things his sons are apparently involved in, and he himself is, is not totally kosher...yes, Zulu, a politician is a politician, but some rise to the level of statesman...and he isn't even at the half way mark. Ben Gurion and Golda, zt'l? That was before you both were born, but I had the priviledge of seeing PM Ben Gurion at an outdoor speech (could you see that happening now?) at Brandeis University, when our Hebrew School teacher took us. That spirit sems to be gone in Israeli politics, and we are all the poorer.

Even if the US allegedly holds the purse strings, he used to be a hero. Now? He is looking out for Arik, and puts Israel second. When he teamed up with peres that was it.

351 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 8:48:36am

#350 NY Nana

I still feel that he is selling Israel out; he carries a lot of baggage with the things his sons are apparently involved in, and he himself is, is not totally kosher...yes, Zulu, a politician is a politician, but some rise to the level of statesman...and he isn't even at the half way mark.

Sharon put his life on the line to save Israel's life in the Yom Kippur War. Israel wouldn't be here today if he hadn't done that.

I read the whole argument against him when lefties in Israel were trying to indict him. The charges were bogus. They were trying to indict him anyway because he would have been forced to resign even if the charges had no merit whatsoever. It didn't work.

Some don't understand what he's doing right now, so he's accused of selling Israel out to try to keep himself out of prison.

How many of us here would choose Israel's death over prison. I sure wouldn't. Who here would do so?

Sharon is an old man. Prison isn't much of a threat to him. He probably doesn't see himself as having a long life left (especially with the amount of weight he carries on him.)

Accusing him of selling Israel out without evidence isn't good.

Ben Gurion and Golda, zt'l? That was before you both were born, but I had the priviledge of seeing PM Ben Gurion at an outdoor speech (could you see that happening now?) at Brandeis University, when our Hebrew School teacher took us. That spirit sems to be gone in Israeli politics, and we are all the poorer.

The current generation of sabras on Israel's left is shockingly bad, but I don't think Sharon is as bad as they are (even as a post-mitzvot Jew.)

The terror is down by 90%, thanks to Sharon.

Something is changing and it's frightening, but I think we have to keep our eyes open in this and watch.

352 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 9:05:37am

#350 NY Nana

Even if the US allegedly holds the purse strings, he used to be a hero. Now? He is looking out for Arik, and puts Israel second. When he teamed up with peres that was it.

Labor was in his government during his first term.

Peres did a lot more then than he's doing now.

I think Sharon is keeping a near-same-age companion nearby, that's all.

353 NY Nana  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 9:10:11am

rightasrain

I am literally on the way out the door..12-week check up for diabetes. I feel like a car sometimes, so help me. Talk to you later.

What Sharon was and what he is now? Very different.

354 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 9:11:33am

Best wishes on the checkup, NY Nana!

355 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 9:14:09am

Sharon looks very strong to me.

He got the Arabs to fly the Star of David in Egypt.

Even George Bush couldn't get JORDAN to do this 2 years ago.

This time, no Americans were even there. Sharon stood on his own as an equal with Arabs while the Israeli flag flew on the grounds in Egypt.

This is different.

356 zulubaby  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 9:16:14am

Sharon is PM now, not a soldier. His function is very different. He didn't need to be diplomatic when he was a soldier, now he does. I don't support everything he's doing, not by a long shot, but I don't believe that he's selling out Israel. He loves that country passionately.

357 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 9:19:22am

America gives a FORTUNE to Jordan AND to Egypt in aid.

Two years ago, George Bush couldn't get the Israel flag flown in a place where we give Arabs TONS of money on a regular basis.

Even a personal visit by the President of the United States wasn't enough.

This time, such a personal visit wasn't needed.

Sharon stood on his own with Arab leaders as an equal while the Star of David flew outside (IN EGYPT!)

Sharon is stronger now than he was two years ago.

358 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 9:21:09am

#356 zulubaby

I don't support everything he's doing, not by a long shot, but I don't believe that he's selling out Israel. He loves that country passionately.

Agreed!

Thanks!

359 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 10:02:18am
360 plutosdad  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 10:45:27am

#254:

I think the simple fact that the veterans who have served and are there now think it's ok to support the war even if you're not there should be good enough for them.

If you're fighting, and you don't mind that many people who support or think the war is right aren't over there, then what right does Goldberg have to make that argument?

There are rules CNN has regarding reporting on the military which were also taken out of context: (satire warning)

CNN Rules on Targetting Military

361 hm  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 11:40:44am

#360 plutosdad

Glad to see the Goldberg thing is back.

I find this whole episode very fascinating not only because Goldberg made a complete mess out of a perfectly winnable situation but also because we are witnessing the next logic step in the evolution of blogging.
It's great being able to watch these things unfold.

As to your point, you are right of course, however, your argument is based on empirical evidence which may or may not hold true, depending largely on whom you ask, i.e. some troops may disagree, in the end it comes down to the very inexact science of measuring opinion.

Unfortunately, opinion is not a good basis for a sound intellectually coherent argument.
What I was thinking of was more along the lines of analogizing the Goldberg situation to that of a firefighter, i.e. assuming that I am afraid of fire and afraid of getting hurt fighting fire and I do not sign up to become one based on those fears, does that mean I can not support what firefighters do?

Unfortunately, as you can see, I don't think that I can frame this argument in an intellectually appealing and airtight manner, at least not nearly as well as someone with more experience such as David Frum or one of the Powerline guys could, which is why I was hoping that they might do it.

But apparently no one wants to get involved in this mud slinging contest - which btw is perfectly understandable.

In any case, this argument needs to be made because due to the unwitting help of Jonah Goldberg, the left thinks they've got this one in the bag.

362 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 12:18:51pm

Goldberg probably shouldn't have picked a fight predictably ended with the leftie clling names. Why argue with a moron?

I'd maintain that NRO, once groundbreaking, is now inward directed. Worse it courts fatcats while getting catty about the common reader.

Would anyone claim that reading the Corner compares to what you see here (for example). On LGF, and most other blogs the speech is free and fast moving. A little potty mouth now and then and some flaming really isn't a terrible burden to put up with.

A lot of us conservatives without independent wealth would love to meet and greet with our heroes, but we are shut out.

I have no figures on NRO's popularity but I will go out on a limb here and predict that Bloggers will eat their lunch if they don't keep the thing fresh. I would miss NRO.

363 Peacekeeper  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 12:20:23pm

Of course nobody is actually reading this thread anymore...

364 rightasrain  Wed, Feb 9, 2005 12:29:19pm

Not me. :)

365 Baldy  Thu, Feb 10, 2005 2:09:46am

NY Nana - I hope your check-up went well.


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