So, just how close is this thing to becoming law?

If it passes, it's another domino falling.

What a wonderful concept.

Will all men (and women) be created equal?

I just wrote the pramble:

"When in the course of human events it becomes necessary to inflict our faith on innocent others in successful free societies..."

sharia has arrived

#1 flipflop

So, just how close is this thing to becoming law?

If it passes, it's another domino falling.

That's an inderstatement. It will be the last domino. It will be an invasion, fait accompli. AsI have posted before, what the Muslims could not have done by force of arms in more than a thousand years, they will have done legally in a generation.

Bye Bye Europe,
I hate to see you go
Bye Bye Europe
You were fun to know.

This piece of crap i must read.

Once upon a time, southern Democrats tried that.

Didn't work out like they planned.

To be followed shortly by dissolution of the EU. Then all hell breaks loose.

"It’s spokesman is Tariq Ramadan, who among many westerners has a reputation of representing a more liberal european Islam."

...amore liberal european Islam?...

Who are they trying to kid?

A Muslim Constitution in Europe

Shouldn't that be : A Muslim Combustion in Eurabia ?

Ceterum censeo EU esse delendam...

OT

Israel threatens to "topple" hamas led govt if captured soldier is hurt.

They are "massing" troops at the border w/Gaza.

Should be interesting. Does hamas have the balls to test Israel?

Anyone find an English language link on this yet? Jyllands-Posten didn't have anything on it.

Tariq Ramadan, that troublemaker is back. In fact, a U.S. Federal judge has ordered the government to give him a "speedy hearing" on his visa request.

No surprise that the Islamists are making a move...as the S.O.B.s are feeling powerful and know that they can manipulate, carp and complain until they get the job done.

It might be OT, but I am reminded of the dialogue from The Third Man;

Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly.

Orson Welles as Harry Lime

I don't much like the way Europe has acted for, O about forever, but I don't think they will go down this easily. At some point won't men risk their lives for liberty? Maybe that gene left on ships to these shores a long time ago?

Will Catholics and Lutherans and Jews and Hindus and Athiests also get their own constitutions?...Of course not, and they wouldn't want one if they could.

Al-Aksa claims chemical capabilities

This makes total sense: why should they stop pushing for Eurabia when no one with any power is resisting? They are only bounded by the limits of their imagination.

Tariq Ramadan, who among many westerners has a reputation of representing a more liberal european Islam.

AKA wishful LLL thinking.

Here's the problem in Europe...

All the political parties are busy fellating Muslim leaders in an effort to curry favor with their respective voting blocs.

What they'll have to do (and I don't think it'll happen) is for all parties to stand up and say no, nein, nej, non and finally "FU!" so that no one party loses the Muslim vote to the other.

#9 JammieWearingFool

To be followed shortly by dissolution of the EU. Then all hell breaks loose

You got it all wrong. The EU is Islam's best weapon against us Europeans. You confuse the EU (the monster bureaucracy) with Europe proper.

Ceterum censeo EU esse delendam...

jehu:
At some point won't men risk their lives for liberty?

That's what I've been wondering. For how long the Europeans will put up with this before doing something about it? Or have we become culturally too distant from the American philosophy, meaning there's no chance in hell an average European would actually stand up for Western values?

that will be above national legislation

Why? Because they say so?

#5 calcajoe:

That's an inderstatement. It will be the last domino.

Umm, no. We're not there yet. Just because a bunch of bozos get together and declare they've come up with a new "constitution" that's "above national legislation" doesn't make it so.

Are they doing this at the behest of the EU?

Are even the EUrocrats taking this seriously?

If the EU couldn't even get its own constitution ratified, how likely would Europeans be to pay any attention to the Muslims' silly, meaningless document?

If this constitution puts Muslims "above national legislation" then wouldn't that mean they're forfeiting their right to protection under national laws, not to mention their right to vote and be represented by their national governments?

And doesn't it mean that non-Muslim Europeans can ignore whatever "rights" the Muslims give themselves with their fake constitution?

#21 flipflop

Or, the indiginous Europeans will get so tired of it, that a party that comes along and says no, nein, nej, non and finally "FU!" will get a majority. Unfortunalely, none of the current mainstream parties seem inclined to do that. It'll be parties that right now are considered fringe right.

# 9 jammiewearingfool

No, the dissolution of the EU is exactly what Europe needs.

Ordinary Europeans have been straitjacketed by the EUrocrats.

Well they tried something similar in Canada trying to get separate shari'a courts. Maybe that was just a test run to see how to wage the publicity battle ahead of the actual pushing for this separate constitution. You want to live in Muslim communities under Muslim rules then you need to move to another country like Somalia.

#24 Occasional Reader

that will be above national legislation

Why? Because they say so?

Because the EU is above national legistation. And yes, it's that way because they say so.

#24 Occasional Reader

Umm, no. We're not there yet. Just because a bunch of bozos get together and declare they've come up with a new "constitution" that's "above national legislation" doesn't make it so.

There you go trying to throw reason into the mix.

Above national legislation? Please do not let the Euro's be this dumb to even think about adopting anything like this.

29 Earth2moonbat

Do you think it would get to that? That they would let someone throw away their constitution and replace it with their own? The EC is working on it, not the EU.

Sadly, you may be right though.

But I would hope they have more spine than that. Yes, even the EU.

that the European Council for Fatwa and Research, a Muslim Brotherhood front group led by Tariq Ramadan and Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, is working on a special constitution for European Muslims

Writing A Muslim constitution in Europe is the first step.
The next step will be threatening/doing terror act, taking hostages. etc and demand to "negotiate" the enforcement of such constitution-- country by country. But don’t expect the European to take it seriously now after all Ramadan and Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi are the most progressive reps of the RoP and who are we to prejudge their intentions now.

#26 earth2moonbat

In Britain, it seems the only party to stand up is the British National Party, but they're inches away from being overtly racist and are almost certainly anti-semitic. They also don't appear to be big fans of American.

#3 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

"When in the course of human events it becomes necessary to inflict our faith failures on innocent others in successful free societies..."

Fixed that for you.

#32 m

This is something the FJman should comment on. It's probably a test balloon for now, but you know how today's test balloons become tomorrow's initiatives. Consider this to be a variation on a focus group study.

Teh EU has the greatest problems getting their constitution accepted. Noway are they going to get it accepted by a vote!
Think about that, than ask yourself will these "politbureau-commisars" try and do the same set of tricks to implement eurabia?
I personally cannot imagine they will be that stupid. In some countries 55 - 60 % of the voters are against the eu, 80 - 90 % will be against "sharia for them a different law for us".

Interesting...

I actually understand Danish, so yea, good interview.

Gives the whole history of how the islamonazis have been developing this in EUrope for decades, starting with fatwas regarding the right to brutalize women, etc.

I'm sure no-one here is surprised.

All the more reason to monitor them here as a hate group. Within a few years they could become as marginalized as the KKK.

Muslims - I do not welcome you to the US and wish you would all convert to something legitimate or leave.

this is the kind of thing that causes me to think that moslems will never be part of America. i think that unless the muzies stop treating the "book" they read as fact they will always be suspect. Oh, a radical moslem is one who does NOT think killing and lying are ok to spread islam.

#35 flipflop

Indeed. I think that over the next few years, the choice will come down to flavors of fascism. Maybe the more centrist parties of the right might grow a pair, but at this point, I don't see much of an indication of that happening.

EUnuch Dhimmicrats are already working on a new continental anthem.

You say you'll change the constitution, we-elll, you know...

We'll just take it up the ca-annn...

Article 666
If a fight should break out between two or more muslims, it is imperative that one or more kafir sons of pigs and monkeys must promptly intercede, and absorb any punches, knife jabs, sword slashes, or gunshots, in order that no harm should ever come to any muslim.

Failure to do so will be the legal equivalent of assault on a muslim, and the entire kafir community shall forfeit all protections of islam's merciful policy of multiculturalism, otherwise known as dhimmitude.

/Most readers will think this is hyperbole.

It’s spokesman is Tariq Ramadan, who among many westerners has a reputation of representing a more liberal european Islam.

As if there is such a thing as "a more liberal european islam".

#24 OR:

Umm, no. We're not there yet. Just because a bunch of bozos get together and declare they've come up with a new "constitution" that's "above national legislation" doesn't make it so.

The interviewee (Who's a doctor of Political Sciences at Denmark's Aarhus University) disagrees.

She points out that muslims in Europe already put islamonazi decrees before secular law...

She also warns of the ultimate consequence being civil war in Europe.

Funny how these academia types take so long to catch up to what regular people with eyes and ears already know, innit? :P

And if you go scribbling pictures of Prophet Mo,
We'll sep'rate your head from your body now, don't you know..

A future ad by the European Muslim council could be:

Want to be above the EU Constitution man?
Easy! Become a Muslim.
Among other privileges you will be allowed to marry up to 4 wives and no limitation on State welfare.

Enjoy:

The Islamic Bill of Rights:

Amendment I

The Ummah shall make no law respecting an establishment of any religion beside Islam but shall make all laws prohibiting the free exercise of all other faiths; or granting the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of men to peaceably to assemble with their women if they are covered and modest, and no right to petition the government for a redress of grievances except by bribe or chicanery.

Amendment II

A well regulated Jihad, being necessary to the insecurity of free states, the right of the Islamic people to misuse and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment III

No Dhimmi soldier shall, in time of war or peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by Islamic law.

Amendment IV

The right of Jihadi people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against reasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue against Muslims despite probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and no matter how particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V

No Muslim person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of an Islamic grand jury, except in cases arising in the Jihad, when in actual or voluntary service in the time of permanent war or public danger preceding the collapse of the targeted civilization to be absorbed into the Ummah; nor shall any Islamic person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of Islamic law; such strictures shall applic to subject peoples, captives or immodestly dressed bystanders; nor shall private property be taken for Islamic use, with just compensation.

Amendment VI

In all Islamic criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy trial, by a partial jury of the Islamic state regardless of wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by Islamic law, and to not necessarily be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation unitl the exact charges have been determined by interrogation; not to be confronted with the witnesses against him; not to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and not to have the assistance of counsel for his defense as if that would make a difference.

Amendment VII

In suits at Shari'a, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty petro dollars, no right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and any fact tried by a non-Islamic jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of Islam in accordance to all pre-existing Islamic beliefs including that Osama bin Laden was not involved in any way with the New York and Washington Attacks of 9-11-01, in complete contrevention of common sence and all western rules of the common law and jurisprudence.

Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required as you are a hostage anyway, excessive fines shall be imposed, cruel and unusual punishments inflicted, especially to cartoonists.

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Islamic Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage the complete lack of freedom these amendments shall create with no rights whatsoever retained by the people (like who they f*ck are they?).

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the Ummah by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the Jihadis, are not reserved to the states respectively, or to the people until such time as their conversion to Islam or their payment of Jizaya with exception to abuse and humilation deemed reasonably necessary by any Muslim, anywhere for any reason whatsoever.

#29 Earth2moonbat

Because the EU is above national legistation.

No it's not. If you don't like something that the EU says, you can always opt out. All nations of the EU have some nationel legistation that differ from EU legistation.
Any country can leave the EU if they want to.

And as the audio says, if it should ever happens it will end with an armed fight.

There are some here who tell us time and again Islam is not the Threat...as Islam creeps like Cancer across the globe.

this is good

they also need a Muslim President, or Caliph, who will answer for the actions of his people, and be arrested, when need be

they should also have their own uniformed army, whom the Europeans may attack and defeat, when need be

Yah, Tariq Ramadan is a real moderate.

Charles-maybe you should hyperlink Mr. Ramadan's name to past posts about him and his 'moderate Islam' on LGF.

#51, storage manager. And who, amongst us would that be? A very small number I am sure. Might they not also be, for the the most part, trolls?

Huh. Denmark raising the alarm again. Anybody used one of these?

[Link: www.cooking.com...]

I was going to buy an espresso machine, but this looks cheap and like it would do OK for my purposes.

#51 storagemanager

There are some here who tell us time and again Islam is not the Threat...as Islam creeps like Cancer across the globe.

We need names and links if you are going to throw out that kinda trash talk about other lizards.

They can write as much as they like, but there is a long way to go before such a thing can assume legal value in any way.

Of course, knowing the ruling elites over here, I'm not so sure it would be laughed away as it should. The kind of laughter that means "Now it's funny, but try that shit another time and it won't be funny anymore" would be more appropriate.

#29 E2M:

Because the EU is above national legistation.

Er... okay, to some extent that's true, but I'm not sure why that's relevant. We're not talking about the EU here.

And yes, it's that way because they say so.

Well, to the extent that the EU is above a nation's legislation, it's because that nation joins the EU by treaty. So, while I'm no fan of the EU, it isn't the case that the EU "just says so" and unilaterally sets itself up as a supra-national legislator.

#46:

The interviewee (Who's a doctor of Political Sciences at Denmark's Aarhus University) disagrees.

If the interviewee is saying that, once a Muslim group in Europe declares that their new "constitution" is in effect, that that "constitution" will de jure supercede national law... I don't care how many doctorates she has, she's just plain wrong.

Now, does this represent a highly disturbing political phenomenon? Well, sure, of course it does. But that's not quite the same thing as saying that these people have the juridical power to enact a new, binding constitution.

53 WriterMom

I had just gotten that song out of my head and now it's back!

♪♪ Ta-riq Rami-dan ♪♪
♪♪ Ta-riq Rami-dan ♪♪
♪♪ Ta-riq Rami-dan ♪♪

muslim Constitution ?

The right to keep and bear scimitars !

The inseparability of mosque and state !

The innumerable powers (of the madmullahs) !

The duty of cruel and unusual punishment !

Isn't incrementalism great.

Gotta love that perseverance and persistance.

Danger! Danger, Will Robinson!

Periphrastic Assholes are approaching.

#50 Middle-Earth

If you don't like something that the EU says, you can always opt out.

bullpuckey.

Ever hear of the European Common Arrest Warrant? And altho' ratification of the Constitution failed, the dynamics of subsidiary and competencies still apply and are in full force via the EJC.

Hay Fabio C., are you supposed to be voting on constitutional reforms today? How is that going?

#58 OR

So, while I'm no fan of the EU, it isn't the case that the EU "just says so" and unilaterally sets itself up as a supra-national legislator.

I think you're the cutest thing ever, but you're wrong.

#62 grayp:

but you're wrong

Okay. Explain.

Who's assimilating who?

#59 m

Is that sung to the tune of "Felice Navidaz" (excuse crappy attempt at Spanish spelling)

..I wanna wish you a Merry Jihad
...I wanna wish you some nice Taqiya
..I wanna wish you a Merry Jihad
...and a Happy Ummah

"Dhimis Navidaz"...

“It’s spokesman is Tariq Ramadan, who among many westerners has a reputation of representing a more liberal European Islam.”

Ramadan’s a slippery customer for sure. Me thinks a “more liberal European Islam” would be merely a transitional stage on the way to the full blow, real variety of islam, once sufficient numbers are in place.

Having failed to smash their way into Europe on two previous occasions, muslims are craftily exploiting the western world’s current weaknesses, aided and abetted by the naïve, the corrupt and the vindictive in our culture.

Even a genuine “more European Islam” would I fear lead to an inevitable loss of freedoms for Europeans in some desperate murky merger between democracy and sharia.

#62 grayp:

bullpuckey.

Ever hear of the European Common Arrest Warrant?

I think you're cute, too, but your very example undermines your argument:

The legislation for the EAW came into force for 8 of the then 15 EU countries on January 1, 2004, with the remaining 7 countries missing the deadline. The EAW was active in the following countries by the implementation date:

Some EU countries participate in EAW, some do not.

IIRC, the citizens of EU countries don't get to vote on anything except when referenda are called. Most of the EU garbeldeegook is created and legislated by the elites-it's only when there are really big ticket questions that the people are consulted. Can anyone chime in on this?

For some reason I see these jokers up in a tree house writing their club rules.

#64 OR

Thought you'd never ask. The idea of subsidiarity is that the member states are subsidiaries of Brussels whenever Brussels makes of claim of 'competencies', e.g., Brussels decides it is more competent to develop regs on fishing limits for all member states than the individual members are.

Voila! It's regulation by fiat. Even tho' the EU Constitution was voted down, that's the way it works. The EU Common Arrest Warrant is just one case. For member states to 'sign on' is a formality - in for a dime, in for a euro.

And if you want to send an MEP into apoplexy, just ask about the 'Services Directive' - that little law that

was

going to require member states to let citizens of any other member states to cross the borders and work without question or forms - just an EU card.

It makes our immigration debate look like a game of croquet.

The Muslims will be cutting their own throats on this one. If this doesn't push the Eurowienies over the brink, nothing will. Sooner or later, even the feckless French will have had enough of this shiite.

And for once, unless it's the Brits, let's stay on the sidelines and let them fight their own fight with the Imams.

Anybody want to bet how long before the E.U. comes calling for American military and monetary assistance?

#74 AI

The U.S. of A. shall volunteer, we wouldn't want all those Fuench or British nukes in the hands of the ummah because of Eurabia is overrun that is exactly where they shall end up...

Lord, I hope you're wrong but I never say never anymore. Unless it is that progressives are wrong on everything. I say that all the time.

#70 grayp:

The idea of subsidiarity is that the member states are subsidiaries of Brussels whenever Brussels makes of claim of 'competencies'

Actually, the principle is generally framed the other way around:

According to this principle, the EU may only act (i.e. make laws) where member states agree that action of individual countries is insufficient

Treaty of Maastricht sez:

RESOLVED to continue the process of creating an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe, in which decisions are taken as closely as possible to the citizen in accordance with the principle of subsidiarity,

[...]

The Community shall act within the limits of the powers conferred upon it by this Treaty and of the objectives assigned to it therein.

In areas which do not fall within its exclusive competence, the Community shall take action, in accordance with the principle of subsidiarity, only if and in so far as the objectives of the proposed action cannot be sufficiently achieved by the Member States and can therefore, by reason of the scale or effects of the proposed action, be better achieved by the Community.

The principles of this are not so different from those underlying the US Constitution, really (although the pratice may mean something else). Local power to the greatest extent practicable, but there are some things that only work if they are done jointly (or federally). And in fact, fishing regs are a perfect example; one country unilaterally enacting limits on, say, tuna fishing in international waters is meaningless, if everyone else is going to cheerfully fish away and deplete the stock.

Voila! It's regulation by fiat.

Well, no, because the member states voluntarily joined, and they can voluntarily leave.

I think the EU in practice waters down democracy way too much, but the picture you're painting here is over-broad, as if Brussels arrived by a flying saucer and imposed its will on the member states by pointing laser cannons at them. No, it's a club. They joined voluntarily.

#68 WriterMom

When it comes to the EU there is a chronic lack of consultation with the public. In fact the whole thing seems designed to operate that way, to keep the public as distant and voiceless as possible.

For most of the stuff coming out of the EU, the ordinary people have absolutely no say or control over.

There are referenda on certain issues, like for example the Constitution, but they are not held in every country (Germany, unlike France or the Netherlands, did not put the Constitution matter before the people, but decided in parliament, as did a number of other countries).

The Euro currency was likewise introduced without any public consultation in many, if not most of the countries that adopted it. If you can imagine Washington deciding to replace the Dollar with a new currency, “the NAFTA”, all without any consultation with the US citizenry, then you get a pretty good ideal of how the EU and national governments like to operate.

Even in those countries that have referenda, there are no guarantees that the result will be respected by either national governments or the EU. One way or another it seems, the elites are determined to force the EU project through, whether the citizenry like it or not.

Islamists in Europe are working on a special legislation for muslims, that will be above national legislation. The initiative comes from the Fatwa-council for Europe, who claims that a “constitution for European muslims” is on its way.

They just want to be part of the culture but the west won't allow it.

/sarc

#71 American Infidel

I knew you would have liked my draft of muslim Constitution.

And they will have a Declaration of Dependence, too.

It goes something like:

We, poor beggars, ask the Almighty Imams and Mullahs to do what they want unto us.

(end of the text)

#76 American Infidel

the West ... is paralyzed now and we shall all suffer for it...

It's the poison of the marxist subversion spider that has paralized the West.

Freedom CAN be used against itself if the philosophy that controls the mind of the Citizen is NIHILISM: Freedom becomes an empty word, MORAL VALUES are forgotten, the "RIGHTS" become more important than the DUTIES, morality becomes an optional.

The idiot marxists still hope that weakening the West they will get their ideological PIES IN THE SKY of socialism and communism, INSTEAD by weakening the West they open the way to the Dark Age of the muslim world domination.

If the subversives don't convert from the pure nihilism of marxism to a minimum of HUMANISM... the next generation will suffer terrible pains.

#77 OR

According to this principle, the EU may only act (i.e. make laws) where member states agree that action of individual countries is insufficient

The problem is that member states don't decide - what happens in practice is that member states' EU reps (MEPs) decide in Brussels. Next time you're in Europe ask them who their MEP is. They probably didn't even vote for the position.

And I'm trying to recall - I'll have to look for it - there was a recent case I believe where the European Court actually pro-actively declared competentcy for the EU.

one country unilaterally enacting limits on, say, tuna fishing in international waters is meaningless, if everyone else is going to cheerfully fish away and deplete the stock.

Quite right if we're talking about just international waters, but we're not.

Article I-7 gives this new European Union, established now on the basis of its own Constitution, legal personality and a distinct corporate existence for the first time. Hitherto the EU has had no legal existence apart from its Members. At present the Member States, not the EU, are superior. This is shown by the fact that the Member States if they wished could agree at any time to dissolve both the EU and EC, and interact with one another like the rest of the world community of States, and as they did themselves before the 1957 Treaty of Rome established the European Economic Community (EEC).

The Constitution changes this. Legally and constitutionally it makes the new EU separate from any of its individual Member States, just as Germany is a separate state from Bavaria or Brandenburg, the USA from Virginia or California, and Canada from Ontario. This is the most essential constitutional step for those who seek to turn the EU into a State, an international actor in its own right for the first time.

Article I-6 then provides that "The Constitution and law adopted by the Institution of the Union in exercising competences conferred on it shall have primacy over the law of the Member States." Thus the proposed Constitution of this new EU overrides and is superior to the Member States' national Constitutions, potentially in all areas of public policy; for the EU Constitution does not seek to reserve any governmental area permanently from EU control. The central issue concerning the EU Constitution is this:

Which Constitution takes precedence, the European one or the national? That after all is the central question of politics: Where do power and legitimate authority lie? The Treaty Establishing a Constitution for Europe is clear. The new EU State and its Constitution will be paramount.

If the Constitution is ratified, the EU Member States would constitutionally and legally become provinces within a European Federal State, with their national democracy, sovereignty and political independence abandoned as they agree formally to subordinate themselves to the superior entity, as in any State Federation.

The Constitution's continental champions are quite honest about this, like the Belgian and French Premiers quoted above. In fact an earlier draft of Article 1 stated explicitly that the Union would exercise its competences "on a federal basis." The word "federal" was dropped because of concern that it would hinder ratification in some countries.

The Article now provides that the Union will exercise its competences "in the Community way." That is a Federal Statist way, even if the words "Federal" and "State" are not used. In a Federal State there are two levels of law-making, with the Federal level superior to the provincial or regional level.

Analysis of the Constitution

gotta hop - back later - email me if you want to 'discuss' some more

Test... test

#78 westoner:

There are referenda on certain issues, like for example the Constitution, but they are not held in every country

... which, in turn, was the decision of each country's government. And if you argue that the EU should have insisted that the Constitution be subject to referendum in every country, then you put yourself in the strange position of insisting that the EU should have asserted supra-national authority in the name of citizen sovereignty.

If you can imagine Washington deciding to replace the Dollar with a new currency

Um... "Washington" (meaning the US Congress) does have the power to establish the US currency without a national referendum. The US Dollar itself was established by the Coinage Act of 1792. And when's the last time we had a national referendum in the US on... well... anything?

What's happening in Europe is exactly why I'm a believer in preemptive war - though I'm sure most of the world thinks I'm a radical warmonger. No different than preemptive health care because one way or another, you're going to get to fight the battle.

Just a choice in whether you want to make it easier to deal with or procrastinate and make it difficult. Whether to fight it on your terms or their terms.

Many Americans still haven't bothered to learn anything about history. Too busy shopping at the mall.

#81 American Infidel

obligations of the dhimmi

Easy: do what the western journalists, false "intellectuals" and politicians are already doing: submitting, being submissive, to submit (ISLAM means exactly that, as a word, and they have understood it perfectly).

islam is a project of world enslavement,

that's all, Folks.

Ironic, isn't it, that the islamists find it useful to draft a "constitution" in the West, where their rights are already protected. But in their own dictatorial countries, constitutions are unheard of and proposing such an idea is probably grounds for execution as anti-islamic treason!

Does anyone else feel that:

1.This will apply to muslim dominated regions within the countries. (Such as the suburbs of France).

2. These regions will expand their boundries over the years because of the high muslim birth rate.

3. When a critical mass of the muslim population is reached ... Intifada and/or application of sharia to the whole population.

#89 ShortboardSurfer

It's what P-L (in his immortal works) calls the

THREE STAGES of the islamic invasion

- silent

- noisy (claiming rights, etc.)

- genocidal

There are of course degrees from one phase to the other. Europe is in between two and three.
We are in between one and two.

#85 Occasional Reader

Um... "Washington" (meaning the US Congress) does have the power to establish the US currency without a national referendum.

Yes, but they would be very unwise to exercise that power today without wide spread public discussion (and support). This is 2006 not err 1792.

And when's the last time we had a national referendum in the US on... well... anything?

Unlike in Europe, perhaps wanting to abolish the national currency would warrant one.

Yeah, and here is David Goodheart, respected liberal, telling us that Ramadan is such a great guy and that we should give him a break:

In defence of Tariq Ramadan

#93 westoner:

Yes, but they would be very unwise to exercise that power today without wide spread public discussion

Which is not the same thing, of course, as "holding a referendum".

There was "widspread public discussion" about the Euro, too, which is one of the reasons it wasn't adopted in the UK.

Unlike in Europe, perhaps wanting to abolish the national currency would warrant one [a referendum].

Well, if you wanted to make it a binding referendum, you'd have to amend the US Constitution first:

The Congress shall have Power To... coin Money, regulate the Value thereof...

A very quick translation of a transcript of the radio programme:

Islamic constitution in Europe

June 21. 2006-06-26

Participants:
Tina Magaard, ph.D.

Islamists in Europe are preparing a special set of laws for Muslims, which are to be placed above the national legislation. The initiative comes from the Muslim Fatwa council for Europe, there in Marts proclaimed that a constitution or a “Constitution for the Muslims of Europe” was on the steps. The Fatwa council has close connections to the Islamist movement The Muslim Brotherhood. Its spokesman Tarik Ramadan, who otherwise in many western groups has a reputation as a man who represents a more liberal European Islam.

Jan Jakob Floridan interviews Tina Magaard from the University of Aarhus. She warns of the risks, in a longer perspective, of Muslims choosing to follow a special constitution, which inexorably will come into conflict with the actual laws of the different countries.

Magaard: ”It is a part of a development, which already started many years ago, where Muslim leaders of Europe started to issue Fatwas, which they believes European Muslims should respect. And here one should be aware what this means. In case of conflict between the Danish constitution or the French constitution on the one hand, and the Muslim on the other, the Imams will be of the opinion that the Muslims should follow the Islamic constitution.”

”So far it is only future dreams, but behind the ambitions lies decades of work. It started with Islamists and imams arrived in the wake of guest workers, refugees and immigrants, with the intent of gaining control over them. They worked to recreate the religiosity amongst the immigrants and had with this a certain amount of success. Afterwards they proceeded to forced fundamentalists values and patterns on the family level.”

At start it were family Fatwas. It were Fatwas which legitimized violence against women, which created a hieratic, patriarchal family structure, and when you create this family culture, you in make it easier for young people to come to the conclusion that violence in the public space is allowed. And when you simultaneously also create the idea that the patriarchal system, with a male Muslim as leader, which the children are to grow up in the eyes of the Imams, then it later follows – and this is where we are now – then the Imams says, that there must be an authority out in society, and this authority must be a man and it must be a Muslim.

With these principles firmly in place, they have to a certain extend managed to create mechanism to control of the Muslim immigrant population, and in certain instances even with support from ignorant governmental bodies, which were merely too happy to gain partners that could help them keep the hooligans in control.”

One begins to keep eye on each other, to make sure others are “behaving Islamic”, and in this you also work with certain psychological mechanism, whereby the young men or fathers are given a sort of police function, and whereby they gain respect. The means that they pursue their function with a certain enthusiasm. This further means that you send the signal to the Muslim communities, that a police authority and an authority in general, is only valid so long as it is performed by male Muslims. Meaning that you relinquish a part of the monopoly on violence held by the police, and in time this will be very dangerous for the state. For a civil state, as Denmark, wherein the monopoly on violence is kept 100% by the police.”

“The Imams and Islamists consider the cooperation with the state institutions a transfer of power. Now it is them who rule, and where from comes the idea of a special constitution for the Muslims of Europe, which the Fatwa council has in mind to force on the willing as well as the majority of reluctant Muslims.”

”One can fear, that if such a constitution is respected by just 10% of Muslims, then they will attempt to draw the rest in by way of threats and promises. If this – which remains to be seen

Thank you Rune - bookmarked.

#55 amyc

As a professional who has written on the subject of making coffee:

Yeah, I have used one of those fwench presses. It works ok, but is difficult to clean.

I don't use a hand frother as shown in the ad -- they need batteries. I use either the steam from the espresso machine, or a special custom frothing machine. (It also makes hot chocolate.)

By all means buy it if you really want to try it out, but a burr grinder and a pump espresso machine will make you a lot happier. (albeit a lot poorer!)

For the record, I reported this here way back on March 24:

A Muslim Constitution within a Constitution

I actually think that this is a very good thing,which will have very good consequences...
Muslims of Europe will have their own constitution,in which they will have a few paragraphs against homosexuality,against separation of church and state,against drinking alcohol,against pornography,etc..
Then and only then,the demented euro-elites will realize that the very people they have protected for so long,the muslims are out to get them.
The secularists will see their lifelong work threatened,the homosexuals will see their agenda going down the drain,the abortionists-euthanasists will see their dreams of playing god destroyed,etc.
And then the euro-elites will have to re-think their multicultural,proislamic delusional policies.

I saw a woman in my neighborhood (USA) wearing something like a burka yesterday- face mostly covered, only eyes showing.

I'm all for religious and cultural diversity, but that is over the line. It seems to me to be a direct challenge to American values and a statement of support for Islamo-supremacy.

I think face-covering needs to become a political issue, not just in terms of drivers license photos.

I've said before. If Muslims or "youts" fire on Paris, kill tourists or threaten the Eiffel Tower or near it, there will be bloodshed.

The EU falling is not a bad thing, Europeans are pissed, though I agree, not pissed enough to fight back. Frankly, they are pissed at a number of parties; their elite governements with endless regulations, their increasing unemployment and the rioting youths, however, they are not sure what to do because they are still addicted to the socialist state.

In fact, this, more than anything may prove Europe's undoing. If protesting against the state means losing their benefits, they may won't do it.

And, if the present governments are kept in place it might be possible to be taken over by ever larger Muslim populations enacting sharia law. Not taken over, per se, but sharia or something close to it existing with the state.

Watch for another large emigration from Europe, a brain drain. This already happening with Jews from Paris, no surprise there, and will happen with the general population as well. French are setting up businesses in London and the Swedes are already leaving.

And as usual everyone has completely lost their minds. The organisation in question is NOT in ANY SORT OF WAY affiliated with the european union. Again, it is as if the church of goobledegook would write a new constitution for it's believers in the US. It is inconsequential. It can be two morons with tinfoil hats writing a constitution. It can be 100 of them. Or one. Who cares. This has nothing to do with the EU.

Geez, have people stolen all of your brain cells lately?