We are so in trouble.

the left never misses an opportunity to mess up an opportunity.

Looks like a ^%^*(%(-ing crescent to me!

The Sphincter of Jihad

I read somewhere that each one of the statements posted at the memorial have been proven to be true by a university professor of history.

Stick it, assholes!

is that the bow down and worship allah as your god monument?

Maybe there is a star hidden there, to truly add insult to injury.

I think I'm going to be sick.

Happy Ramadan, y'all!

/sarc

Why do "American" designers do this...is it to get the publicity, the face time on TV or are they really so eaten up by hate for this country that they will do anything to harm it. I would normally be the first to be against any type of rioting or destruction of property but sooner or later there has to be something done.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

This must not stand. It's high time we saw the "stone eagles" that Mark Steyn talks about.

In the same vein... what ever happened to the "OTHER CRESCENT" monument...?
Did they ever resolve the design problem or should I say the problem with the design...

The end of Western civilizations is near. If the West can't tell right from wrong, then it will be unable and unwilling to defend itself from destruction.

Hyperbole? I don't think so.

Crescent? I thought it was a toilet. We should treat it as such.

I'd be willing to contribute to the defence fund if someone bulldozed that POS thing.

...Just saying...

Let the memorial stand. Since our "leaders" have conceded that we will be hit again, and since we are not striking the heart of Islamism to make jihad unpalatable to these fanatics, we will be hit again. As much as these memorials irk all of us, once we are hit again, and again, these memorials will be a reminder to the peace crowd that they were the ones who did not want to respond. Sooner or later the jihad conflict with the west will come to a head and the west will no longer be able to evade it. That is for sure. These "memorials" will be interesting artifacts and a source of never-ending shame to those who erected them.

Another disgusting example of governmental dhimmitude.

It's only a crescent on the inside.

But it looks like a bus shelter designed by Eero Saarinen on the outside.

That's the real insult, in my opinion.

What the heck happened in Arizona that makes them think they need a memorial?

#15

I can imagine leaving bushels of pigeon feed daily to attract the birds.

This is what generations of youth are being taught in American schools.

Be so sensitive to the other point of view that you no longer differentiate good from evil.

Multicutural academics, hooliganwood, and the MSM would have been so politically correct and sensitive during WWII they would have helped the Nazis load innocents on cattle cars to Auschwitz.

20 elevenbravo1969

THank you!

Forgive me if this is redundant...

They're going to address this on FNC soon. Or, so they said 5 minutes ago!

America, the Caliphate and the Whores of the Caliphate are embedded in your cultural, political, social, legal, media and academic institutions at all levels.
Defend your second ammendment rights.
Arm yourselves.
Now.
It is much later than many of you think.

Nothing agianst Saarinen or modernism per se, but it's a nice stainless steel bus shelter, and not a memorial.

...and we'd be better off if we kept the history profs and the "artistes" out of the equation, whatever we're considering.

#5 American Soldier

I read somewhere that each one of the statements posted at the memorial have been proven to be true by a university professor of history.

Yes, I believe that's a quote by a surviving family member and I believe it's in the East Valley Tribune article that Charles has already linked.

Roark it.

#22 leftout

they would have helped the Nazis load innocents on cattle cars to Auschwitz.

What, innocent Jews? Sha!

<tag>

I think my head's gonna' explode.

When the next terrorist attack happens, and the loony leftie you've been arguing with for five years is crying about his/her mother dying in the fallout, say "Hey, what do you expect? After all, 46 Uruzgan civilians were killed erroneously in an air strike. She's fair game."

If I were designing a monument to the fallen, it would look something like this, I think:

[Link: oha.alexandriava.gov...]

#11 DoctorDentons 9/24/2006 09:10AM PDT
I would normally be the first to be against any type of rioting or destruction of property but sooner or later there has to be something done.

Agreed. God forbid that I stumble on this war crime while in Arizona. In a rage, I'll take a sledge hammer to this piece of liberal offal.

If I were designing a monument to islamic terrorists, it would look something like this, I think:

[Link: www.wrinkydinks.com...]

elevenbravo1969

What the heck happened in Arizona that makes them think they need a memorial?

We lost a few citizens in 9-11. But, more importantly, it was our country that was attacked. We are a part of the US ya know.

We're at war with Islam, and progressive architects design two 9/11 memorials in the shape of the known Islamic crescent. On our soil.

This year we accept 15K Saudi "students" into the USA.

Our friends, the Saudi, leak story Bin Laden is dead. France seconds the opinion.

Terror attacks increase as Ramadan begins.

AQ tells Muslims to get out of NYC & Wash DC. Does anyone recall the story about the Brooklyn student who'd told his classmates the WTC (as viewed from their window), would not be there for long? The FBI came to interview the kid afterwards, but his father cried foul & racism. The FBI backed off.

/just connecting the dots between those that would kill us, & those that would encourage them to do so.

29 Who Watches the Watchmen? 9/24/2006 09:20AM Roark it.

Yes but I don't think you could muster an acquittal on that one.

#4 haakondahl,

Perfect. Perfect.

The left in this country would make a WW2 memorial in the shape of a swastika and a Korean War memorial in the shape of a red star.

Liberals ARE traitors.

#22 leftout

specifically, this is what kids are going to be taught in AZ public schools.

K-12 Educational Activities to Commemorate September 11th.

Tempe resident Donna Bird, whose husband Gary was killed in the attack, was among the 30-member Arizona 9/11 Memorial Commission created by former Gov. Jane Hull in 2002.
She said all the inscriptions were found factual by an Arizona State University history professor. She added that she wouldn’t have helped design the memorial, which names her husband, if it were political.
Two things to glean from this passage: 1) Ann Coulter was right about this new practice, to take national events and shrink them down to personal. 9/11 was an act of war, in fact so was the 1993 attack, but the Left denies this truth and makes their own reality, incomprehensible attacks that strike down individuals randomly, no rhyme or reason, just tragedy.
2) To blandly defend the uniformity of anti-war statements as "all were found factual" is further Lefty fog and mirrors. It is also a factual statement that McDonald's has served "billions of hamburgers," but that would be considered irrelevent to the subject at hand.

"Everybody Wants to Rule the World" - Tears for Fears --- Listening to that song now.

She said all the inscriptions were found factual by an Arizona State University history professor. She added that she wouldn’t have helped design the memorial, which names her husband, if it were political.---

One inscription states, “You don’t win battles of terrorism with more battles.”

When this opinion is seen as simply factual, the distinction between fact and opinion has been lost.

The professor is entitled to his opinion. In his judgment, you don't win battles by fighting them. Fine. Opinions can differ, though. As Winston Churchill once said, wars are not won by evacuations. There's another opinion. But all these statements are judgments and opinions. They don't fall into the category of "factual".

The leftists are so incredibly lame. It's not simply that this work is blatant worship and appeasement of Islamic terror, it's that it is so pathetically prosaic from an aesthetic perspective. The piece so badly wants to be modernist-revival with neo-classical sensibilities, yet is blithely unaware how shopworn this type of architecture really is. One might even say this is the sterile type of corporate art one finds accessorizing office buildings. It is the kind of design that intelligent people everywhere think is "butt ugly", uninviting, and almost comically pompous.

My monument to the fallen would look something like this:

[Link: www.fas.org...]

Donna Bird, meet Cindy She-hag...

What in the bleeding hell is wrong with these people who want to "commemorate" a national tragedy by taking cheap shots at our own government instead of being outraged at the perpetrators?

#25 Babbazee: It dawned on me not too long ago that, while we have weapons aplenty in this house, we would run out of ammunition waaay too soon if there was trouble... Off to Academy to remedy the situation.

#47 Windhorse

Donna Bird, meet Cindy She-hag...

snert. probably already some hero worship goin' on there. blech.

“You don’t win battles of terrorism with more battles.”

Right. You win them with flowers and poetry.

Inquiring minds want to know whether Donna Bird and the esteemed professor of History have a thing goin'...

I just wrote my column on this ridiculousness yesterday. Another hijacked memorial. What a sad state of affairs.

She said all the inscriptions were found factual by an Arizona State University history professor.

Huh? The statements aren't "facts", they're points of view. Liberal, anti-Bush, anti-American points of view.

If they in fact build this second "Crescent Roll of Peace and Grayhound Bus Station For Jihadists", it would be fitting to use it for a controlled demolition experiment. You know, like the takedown of the twin towers...another "fact" worshipped by the liberals.

A sad commentary of the disproportionate responses of those who rage against the incumbent and his policies.

Way to go Moonbats... nice to see you can separate your issues.

“You don’t win battles of terrorism with more battles.”

According the Left and their supporters, you win them by killing Jews.

If you're going to have a crescent in a 9/11 memorial (and where it might even be appropriate in the Shanksville site) make it a broken crescent!

There's symbolism for you.

All this manufacturered outrage, my goodness.

The 'ring' (yes, it is a ring) is shaped like that to create the desired effect by tracking the arc of the sun. You guys are embarrassing yourselves to suggest that this is some sort of tribute to a symbol of Islam.

I wrote a diary about this on Kos Friday night, and linked to LGF's previous thread about this. I still can't believe these blogs are making a big deal about a 9/11 memorial paid for with private donations. That, and the fact that this local paper gives Mr. Espresso's loony interpretations of the etchings any ink.

Oh well...knock yourselves out.

Arizona - Your tax dollars at work...

(Note to self: Skip Arizona)

Go away, troll.

ChenZhen - It's a crescent. Did you miss that day in school?

#41 Kirly 9/24/2006 09:26AM PDT

#22 leftout

specifically, this is what kids are going to be taught in AZ public schools.

Kirly, I used my Evelyn spudwood's speed reading skills and read through your link.
Whatever happened to teaching math, science, and English skills so that we can compete abroad and leave the politics and personal values and to the family and home?

I know, I'm a right wing ideologue and should appreciate that it "takes a village" to raise a child.

/semi-sarc.

I see Gordon's second-in-command has showed up to scold us for being offended. I always forget that only muslims and liberals have that right.

Rev up the Caterpillars!

In case anyone's wondering, that's the broken shackle at the feet of the Statue of Liberty.

I would rather see a rose garden planted than this pompous multi-culti travesty of concrete and mind-numbing liberal idiocy.

Plant a flower. Watch it bloom. Watch it wane and die, and come to life again.

blamebush.com must be slow today. Treez won't be up until about 4PM EDT.

Every time I see this picture my eye is drawn to the figure in the lower, center who I swear is wearing a white burka.

THX-42

'If they in fact build this second "Crescent Roll of Peace and Grayhound Bus Station For Jihadists", it would be fitting to use it for a controlled demolition experiment. You know, like the takedown of the twin towers...another "fact" worshipped by the liberals. '

I believe it was dedicated Sept 12, 2006. So, it already exists.

Some time soon, I'll take a trip down there and take actual digital photos to be absolutely certain.

#57, ChenZhen

Hey! Weren't you so outraged that you were never posting on LGF again?

*Yawn*

#46 whiterasta 9/24/2006 09:30AM PDT
Yeah! Or as Team America would say: "F--K yeah!

#50 Murqtaad 9/24/2006 09:32AM PDT

“You don’t win battles of terrorism with more battles.”

Right. You win them with flowers and poetry.

Priceless!

THIS is a better memorial to 9/11 . . .

[Link: i84.photobucket.com...]

Even if the memorial contains some 'leftist ideology', who cares? It's not like 9/11 resulted in the deaths of 3,000 right-wingers. You don't see lefty blogs picking through the memorial looking for neo-con subliminal messages. This notion that the right has the final say about how 9/11 should be remembered is just nuts.

#61 leftout

'Kirly, I used my Evelyn spudwood's speed reading skills and read through your link.
Whatever happened to teaching math, science, and English skills so that we can compete abroad and leave the politics and personal values and to the family and home?'

That apparently became defunct when the libs in control of our educational system teamed up with a bunch of unthinking AZ citizens and elected Democrat Janet Napolitano!

#57 ChenZhen

You can't believe someone would call bullshit when they see it? I think you should pull out a dictionary and look up the word fact, and then look up the word opinion.

You describe it as a 'ring'. Why the quotation marks? Why wouldn't you just refer to it as a ring?

You are the one kidding yourself.

By the way - you must have some proof that this project was funded by 100% donations - right? I would like to see the link.

Don't miss this Stephen Hayes article:

According to a report released September 8 by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Saddam Hussein "was resistant to cooperating with al Qaeda or any other Islamist groups." It's an odd claim. Saddam Hussein's regime has a long and well-documented history of cooperating with Islamists, including al Qaeda and its affiliates.

...

There is much to quarrel with in the report. But it is worth spending a moment to consider the vast amount of information that was left out of the committee's treatment of Iraq's links to al Qaeda. ...

There is no mention in the report of Abdul Rahman Yasin, an Iraqi who admitted mixing the chemicals for the bomb used in the 1993 World Trade Center attack, cited in the July 2004 Senate report as an al Qaeda operation. The mastermind of that attack, Ramzi Yousef, is the nephew of 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. Two weeks after the bombing, according a July 2004 report issued by the same Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Yasin fled to Iraq with Iraqi assistance. ABC News reported in 1994 that a Baghdad neighbor of Yasin's told them that he travels freely and "works for the government."

...

There is no mention of documents showing that the Iraqi regime cultivated a relationship with bin Laden's chief deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, throughout the 1990s. Time magazine's Joe Klein, an Iraq War critic who is dubious of a broader Iraq-al Qaeda relationship, noted last week: "Documents indicate that Saddam had long-term, low-level ties with regional terrorist groups--including Ayman al-Zawahiri, dating back to his time with the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood. There is strong evidence as well that elements of the Special Republican Guard ran terrorist training camps."

...

There is no mention of captured Iraqi documents that indicate the regime was providing financial support to Abu Sayyaf, an al Qaeda affiliate group in the Philippines.

...

There is no mention of the Clinton administration's 1998 indictment of Osama bin Laden, which noted that al Qaeda had "reached an understanding with the government of Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al Qaeda would work cooperatively with the Government of Iraq."

[Link: www.weeklystandard.com...]

#68 kirly

It does look like a bus station!

“You don’t win battles of terrorism with more battles.”
According to the left you win by surrendering, giving up your way of life and selling yourself into slavery.
I'm sick and tired of Western/White guilt.
Bring back Patton and Sherman!

Here is a list of members of the attackers "memorial commision" and their website. The crescent is a nice touch.
[Link: www.az911memorial.com...]

#67 jrausta

"Every time I see this picture my eye is drawn to the figure in the lower, center who I swear is wearing a white burka. "

Nah, too much ankle showing.

I can't get the quote button to work anymore!

Chen,

Even if the memorial contains some 'leftist ideology', who cares?

Some? It's got leftist banter quoting alleged American atrocities that happened AFTER 9-11. This is no memorial, it's a leftist circle crescent jerk. And who cares? I care, asshole.

ChenZhen

You promised to leave and never come back. Remember?

Now you're just a turd that won't flush.

Curt at Flopping Aces was all over this story last week. It's nice to see that the outrage over this memorial has gotten to Drudge and the other outlets.

Whats all this "HAPPY RAMADAN" all about ...I eat those RAMADAN noodles all the time.
Nothing special about them as far as I can see... Just add hot water and slurp!

/sarc

Beat it, Commie.

[stupid narrow minded selfish democrat mind set on]

You know, if this is a typical memorial, thes inscriptions are usually carved into stone. Stone breaks very easy under the head of an 8 pound sledge.
Now, I personally do not advocate vandalism, but this is an action that is carried out by muslims all the time (destroying images/icons of various religious or historical items).
This is condoned by the leftists, communists, the propgandists (also calling themselves the 'media') and other cowards and islamic apologists (dhimmis-in-training) by the very fact that they will not speak out agianst these acts, and therefore it is ok in the world view. What's good enough for islam is good enough for us in this case. Tit for tat. Fair trade.
If they build it, we should come. And tear that disprespectful display of partisan bullshit down, and show them what the real public of this country feels and wants!
I also think we should do it just like the muslims, with faces covered to invoke fear.

I sugest we all wear masks of the clintons and jackass carter, and cambobia kerry too. After all, a lot of the credit for this situation the US is in belongs to them. So, as the faces of democrat (read: aristocrat wannabes) selfishness and stupidy, they should be the so-called 'identifiers' of the extremist-christian-american-infidel-crusader-devi ls that are behind the casuse of all the terrorists of the world today.

[stupid narrow minded selfish democrat mind set off]

Ok, done with trying to think like a kos kid. Kinda like the neighbors spoiled kids.
Just something I am unused to doing, and boy it does not feel right. I feel criminal, and need to bathe. I really need to keep that manner of thinking in sealed jar, or just go out and burn it in a fire.

So, personally I feel this is a disgrace. Public funding better not be involved in the building of this thing. Write your congress person to object to this and ask for discovery on the use of tax monies in this project. Political statements such as this should never be allowed to be made at any taxpayers expense. This display is just plain disgraceful. Even coming from democrats and their supporters.

"proven true by a university professor of history"...right! Then it HAS to be 100% correct, ok, sure, why not!

Hell, they are never wrong!

/

#77 6patrick6

"It does look like a bus station! "

You've seen our bus stops haven't you?
They ARE made of metal and the roof is usually NOT solid. Gee, who wouldn't build a bus stop like that in the Sonoran Desert?

This notion that the right has the final say about how 9/11 should be remembered is just nuts.

Stay tuned traitor. We will have the final say.

So under sharia law will I still be able to drink a beer while watching the game? I'm just trying to plan ahead for president clinton's reign. I too would contribute to a fund for the repainting of the D-9 that would put on dozing display!

And to my column about this, I get idiotic comments like this one:

# 5. 9/24/06 10:20 AM by ---
God forbid the Muslims such as Osama Bin Laden learn "tolerance". What a horrible concept to teach- try to have people accept others and their differences rather than trying to wipe them off the map. Right as rain as usual.

# 89

X2!

ChenZhen

please do yourself and everyone else a favor and go away until you've grown a brain.

She said all the inscriptions were found factual by an Arizona State University history professor.

"Professor" Ward Churchill by chance?

(Somehow I knew that the "self-banned" would be back.)

#73, ChenZhen

It's not like 9/11 resulted in the deaths of 3,000 right-wingers.

Yeah, I know. Mike al-Moor said that they killed people who didn't even vote for Bush!

#82 BenZacharia 9/24/2006 09:49AM PDT

ChenZhen

You promised to leave and never come back. Remember?

Now you're just a turd that won't flush.

I never said that. I just wasn't sure what kinds of activities Charles deems ban-worthy, so I figured I'd post something.

#91 Right_Writer

I know what you mean. Not that I ever got comments, but that there's no talking to some people, and the rest of us already know.

There is no middle. There are no undecideds. Just pantywaists without even the guts to admit they're leftists.

If you can't see that this is a war for survival, then I don't want your votes. And I won't waste my time asking.

I'm going to celebrate ram-murder-dan by cooking up a nice piece of jerk pork, tonight.

Check out jerk recipies at [Link: www.cosmicchile.com...]

#57 ChenZhen

All this manufacturered outrage, my goodness.

The 'ring' is shaped like that to create the desired effect by tracking the arc of the sun. You guys are embarrassing yourselves to suggest that this is some sort of tribute to a symbol of Islam.

Give it up. It is a crescent (surrounded by a ring to conceal the crescent or provide more space leftist meme?).
[Link: www.az911memorial.com...]

There is nothing inherit in sundials that requires the crescent shape.
[Link: hilaroad.com...]

Then there are crescents, and the crescent moon shapes, and then there the stylized crescent moon used in this design.

Architecturally, a crescent is usually less than half a circle, and viewed in elevation. In the actual lunar crescent the inner radius is greater than the outer radius. In the symbol of islam the inner radius is less than the outer.

Sure this could be purely coincidental. But, how could the designer of a memorial have known what the symbols of the self described religiously zealous mass murderes were?

How, aside from the fact that memorial designers do work with symbology...

Another attempt by the left to glorify and excuse Islam and ridicule America. The reasoning appears that anything antiAmerican is good. These designers are the type that secretly revelled in 9/11.

Hey Commie,
Nobody here cares what you post anywhere other than here. I told you that when you promised to leave and wanked about being banned. I said you could ask for your account to be deleted--better people than you have done it, and to less positive effect.

This looks like a prime example of projection--I guess your buddies over at the other place take a dim view of your activities here. Well, here we criticise you for your demonstrated stupidity, not rumored.

#75 Windhorse 9/24/2006 09:45AM PDT

By the way - you must have some proof that this project was funded by 100% donations - right? I would like to see the link.

Well, I know that no public funds wen't into it, but if you want a link, here ya go.

The memorial isn't going anywhere, so you guys go ahead and make a fuss if you want. I'm gonna watch some football.

From the Archetect himself...

“The attacks gave America a sense of what the rest of the world is feeling, sometimes on a daily basis,” architect Eddie Jones says.

So, because of all the intervening events and politics, it becomes harder to see Sept. 11 with any clarity.

Jones has had to look carefully. Along with artists Maria and Matt Salenger, he has designed the Arizona 9/11 Memorial.

"We were careful not to politicize the memorial," he says. "Because we're human beings and feel pain like anyone else, there was a political turn on the events, but I'm proud we have avoided that.

"It is significant that the spectrum of emotion in the memorial is expressed in light, not shadow. Not material but sunlight, which is historically symbolic of optimism, something uplifting and hopeful.

"It deals with this painful issue in a way that subtly suggests hope. I love that part," Jones says.

"I'm optimistic. I have to be."

#57 Chen

Like I said.

Liberals are traitors.

Whats next. A burning cross at a MLK memorial?

Inscriptions state:

“You don’t win battles of terrorism with more battles.”

“Congress questions why CIA and FBI didn’t prevent attacks.”

“Erroneous US air strike kills 46 Uruzgan civilians,”

I would oh so like to see the documentary evidence presented by "an Arizona State University history professor" proving these "true".

Then I'd like to listen to Donna Bird explain to me just exactly what the fuck any of that has to do with "memorializing" the nearly 3,000 victims of islamic terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

What ever happened to just building a freaking memorial? Does the Washington Monument question how George Washington treated the Indians in the French and Indian War?

Just build the thing and shut up about everyone else in the world's feelings!

#48 coppertop

Down went the gunner, a bullet was his fate
Down went the gunner, and then the gunner's mate
Up jumped the sky pilot, gave the boys a look
And manned the gun himself as he laid aside The Book, shouting...

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition
And we'll all stay free

Praise the Lord and swing into position
Can't afford to be a politician
Praise the Lord, we're all between perdition
And the deep blue sea

Yes the sky pilot said it
Ya gotta give him credit
For a sonofagun of a gunner was he

Shouting Praise the Lord, we're on a mighty mission
All aboard, we ain't a-goin' fishin'
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition
And we'll all stay free

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition
And we'll all stay free

#96 Chen

never said that. I just wasn't sure what kinds of activities Charles deems ban-worthy, so I figured I'd post something.

This aint the Stalinist KOS you post at.

HMMMmmm !
I was just wondering what the "memorial" looks like at night... No sun to project the quotes...Did the tax payers of AZ get taken ?...This "memorial" only works 1/2 the time... !?
Just wondering.

maybe one day we will find out moonbats are suffering from a brain wasting parasite?

We have to take the long view. After the first nuke or biowar attack destroys an American city, all these sad little memorials will get bulldozed and we'll put up real ones, designed and built by the citizens themselves, instead of by academic committees.

Even if the memorial contains some 'leftist ideology', who cares?...This notion that the right has the final say about how 9/11 should be remembered is just nuts

It s a memorial. It serves to memorialize the dead, not criticize the living. It should not be political, period.

ChenZhen

Since this may be my last post on this website, I'd just like to say that I've learned quite a bit since I joined LGF a few months back. I have enjoyed some of the debates I have been engaged in here (even withstanding rayra's wrath), and I hope that I can continue to be a voice of reason on here in the future.

I say this because Charles' entry about the Arizona 9/11 memorial effected my view of this site (but not as much as the subsequent comments did). I couldn't believe what I was reading. So, tonight, I felt obligated to say something about it.

My apologies, turned out you were just taunting us.

Z, not picking on you here:

#17 z 9/24/2006 09:14AM PDT

Let the memorial stand. Since our "leaders" have conceded that we will be hit again, and since we are not striking the heart of Islamism to make jihad unpalatable to these fanatics, we will be hit again. As much as these memorials irk all of us, once we are hit again, and again, these memorials will be a reminder to the peace crowd that they were the ones who did not want to respond. Sooner or later the jihad conflict with the west will come to a head and the west will no longer be able to evade it. That is for sure. These "memorials" will be interesting artifacts and a source of never-ending shame to those who erected them.

Communists are amoral. They have no shame about anything; including taking your labor, wealth and liberty at gunpoint.

They are the enemy as suredly as the jihadis.

please do yourself and everyone else a favor and go away until you've grown a brain.

I don't think that it's brains people like this lack; it's morality and conscience.
These soulless devils are the same sort who through "compassion" for their fellow man gave us seventy-five years of communist totalitarianism. Now, they want to try a Taliban like Islamic death march for the good of mankind.
NO Thanks.

#102, ChenZhen

The memorial isn't going anywhere, so you guys go ahead and make a fuss if you want.

If you're ridiculous, don't be surprised when you're ridiculed.

Both you and the bus shelter are certainly ridiculous.

ChenZhen: in LGF's history, I've only banned one person for excessive stupidity. So you're pretty safe.

Is ChenZhen still up on that cross?

This and Shanksville, and if they can Ground Zero, will be memorials to how the left views America.

That it is our own policies to blame. We are the ones responsible for 9/11, not the misunderstood Islamanazi's.

If the GOP had and balls they would use these events to hang the libs with. Put those adds on TV showing the true beliefs of these slimey bastards.

We will win this war, with or without the left. The left is just doing their damn best to make sure it costs many millions of lives insead of thousands.They are morally bankrupt.

#117 Charles

BBBWWWAHHHAHAHHAHAHAHA

#117 Charles 9/24/2006 10:13AM PDT

ChenZhen: in LGF's history, I've only banned one person for excessive stupidity. So you're pretty safe.

Cut, choke, sting, BURN! Suckit commie, suckit!

#112 Charles
Who was that?

#102 Chen Idiot

"...Well, I know that no public funds wen't into it, but if you want a link..."

So I guess that on the sponsors list, when I read the names "City of Phoenix", "City of Tempe", "City of Scottsdale", and "State Government Agencies" that they are funded by private benefactors - right?

Nancy Dallett, the consultant on the project is kinda wacko!...

Can you imagine having your dated 50's-era ugly home or condo designated so that you can't tear it down? Does this mean that you can't even update it, to get rid of the avocado appliances? Apparently so:

Valarie Hartzell of Park Paradise, 6936 E. Fourth St., said condo owners there also are making improvements, but city-approved contractors balk at installing authentic, and perhaps hard-to-get, fixtures

The woman driving this effort reveals the thinking so typical of these efforts:

Preservation Commissioner Nancy Dallett said the rare configuration of the apartments in a single neighborhood may qualify them for a geographic designation.

"The strength of our district is in the clustering of the apartments," Dallett said at Thursday's commission meeting. "I wouldn't want to let go of any of these within the boundaries."

Don't you love that last line? Look Nancy, if you want something specific done with this property, buy it yourself. But don't try to manage property you don't own at costs you don't bear for an outcome you desire.

I'm gonna watch some football.

NO, you watch a man's sport. If you liberal offal win the day here's what we'll be watching:

Fun pastimes under shria law

ChenZhen (#73),

Please invite me to you mother's funeral. I know some hilarious fart jokes.

Sure they're probably not appropriate, but "who cares"?

Right?

#117 Charles.
primf

Ou! That's gonna leave a mark.

They said they are going to address this on FNC yet again! Everybody watch! They showed a picture of the memorial - not an artist's rendition.

A spark of rationality at KOS:

I'm pretty danged liberal, and I really don't like the idea of trying to link 9-11 to so many previous wars, etc., in a memorial.

There's no public money being spent, but it does have the imprimatur of Governor Napolitano (who I admire).

Like I said, I'm a natural enemy of the LGF-types... but from the pictures I've seen, this memorial seems ham-handed. There may be good impulses behind it, but my gut says it's ultimately a little too coy about it specifically being a memorial for the 9-11 victims. To generalize about them too much, with such wide and ambitious context, dims the tribute to the people who died that day.

One man's opinion.

by chumley on Fri Sep 22, 2006 at 10:17:27 PM PDT

Not to mention it's a big modernist bus shelter.

#119 hous bin pharteen

This and Shanksville, and if they can Ground Zero, will be memorials to how the left views America.

Of course they are. They will all be about how America deserved it, with the dead as victims, not of a radical and evil religious fanaticism, but of American "policies". Some will be more subtle than others, but the message will be the same.

Whether the Arizona 9/11 Memorial's "statements" are "factual" or not is irrelevant, what they chose to include, and exclude, makes it clear beyond a doubt that it is a political statement from a specific point of view, one delivered with a sledgehammer.

ChenZen...sheesh what a maroon! Or was it a deliberate liar? The website says "No public funds were used to create this website"!

Any attempt to provide shade is welcome here in Arizona so the architecture doesn't bother me; it's the inscriptions and suggested assignments for kids.
Why not inscribe the dates of other terrorist attacks on Americans: the Achille Lauro, the Marine barracks in Lebanon, hi-jacking that plane in Athens and killing the sailor, the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City?

#125
shria should be sharia

Good day all.

All I see is a waste of money, private apparently, to build a giant frisbee. It memorializes nothing. The people who created it will raise a toast,pat each other on the back, proclaim their superior 'vision', then leave it to it's true purpose. A collection point for empty bottles and used hypodermic needles.

Well, if they are going to include factual statements, maybe they should also include Bill Clinton's about how he passed on taking Osama Bin Laden -- recorded and all.

Like that would ever happen.

ohmygosh! it's a pit! a hole in the ground! mayor nagin must have been involved.

#119 hous bin pharteen

This and Shanksville, and if they can Ground Zero, will be memorials to how the left views America.

IMHO leaving that big hole in the ground in New York is the lefts' memorial. I read somewhere that the Empire State Building was built in 24 months. I'm wrong:
From Wiki:
Excavation of the site for the Empire State Building began on January 22, 1930, and construction on the building itself started on March 17. The project involved 3400 workers, mostly European immigrants, along with hundreds of Mohawk nation iron workers; 14 of the workers died during construction.[2]

The project was hurried to completion in order to take the title of "world's tallest building" from the nearby Chrysler Building. The Empire State Building was officially opened on May 1, 1931,

J.D. (#122),

I'm thinking that nutty Saskatewan dude.

Was it joewilson who was banned for excessive stupidity? I'm sure he would qualify, but maybe there were other reasons. Can't remember.

J.D.

#112 Charles
Who was that?

The late joe wilson.

135 poteen 9/24/2006 10:25AM PDT

Good day all.

All I see is a waste of money, private apparently,

Nope, lots of taxpayers loot. see list. citys don't gotthier own money, comes from us.

TO: Charles Johnson et al
RE: Bull Pucky

"She said all the inscriptions were found factual by an Arizona State University history professor. She added that she wouldn’t have helped design the memorial, which names her husband, if it were political." -- Article cited by Charles Johnsonm

Bird is either delusional or a liar.

Especially about that one comment. The one about how you supposedly can't stop terrorism by attacking it.

I've got a better adage...and this one IS true...

The quickest way to end a war is to lose it.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

If they want to build a memorial for the victims of 9-11, then build it for that purpose.

If they want to build a place to memorialize their political points of view, then build it for that purpose.

But they should not confuse the two, nor combine them.

Eventually--probably after the 2nd American Civil War--these Crescent-shaped memorials to the glories of both Islamist slaughter and leftist twaddle will be blown to bits by real Americans, so why bother worrying about it now?

Dar ul Harb (#130),

Not to mention it's a big modernist bus shelter.

poteen (#135),

A collection point for empty bottles and used hypodermic needles.

The Left's idea of a "memorial".

#139 Geepers
The one that always ranted about PNAC?

TO: Anyone
RE: This Bogus Effort

I want to know WHO funded this POS.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

#133 donna quixote 9/24/2006 10:24AM PDT

Why not inscribe the dates of other terrorist attacks on Americans: the Achille Lauro, the Marine barracks in Lebanon, hi-jacking that plane in Athens and killing the sailor, the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City?

Good idea. Nice Nic.
The reason liberals and their sick fetid allies want to enumerate the suffering America has caused others is because they are trying to expunge their own White/Western guilt by siding with the poor downtrodden of the world.

I've got a suggestion for these folks. Go live with the poor downtrodden with whom you empathize. Or alternatively, go jump off a bridge and punish yourselves for being a part of the greatest success in government and general wealth and human rights the world has ever seen viz. the American experience.
Then those of us who don't feel guilt and who aren't going to allow ourselves or our families to be abused or killed for your perverted sense of justice can then defend ourselves with all due gusto.

#141 easy
joewilson knew exactly what he was doing here.

I guess that's excessively stupid, now that I think about it...
:D

I can't remember which LGF thread this was on this summer, but here is the article from City-Journal with pictures of the local 9/11 memorials in New Jersey and New York suburbs.

This August at Cal Expo, they had the first stage of the 9/11 memorial completed and on view. One part of the memorial is a beautiful sphere in red-brown marble, engraved with the names of all those lost. The engraved sphere floats and rolls on top of precision water fountain atop a cylindrical marble pedestal. The Stage 2 portion will be memorial towers. Here is the Cal Expo 9/11 memorial website

How is it that Arizon's memorial get hijacked?

142 BenZacharia

No direct tax money that I see.
Cities and city agencies sponsoring 'fund raising' is dubious but probably no different than doing it for the local Little League.
It's just wasted time and money. They would be better off with a new park or something.

#103 Dewie

"We were careful not to politicize the memorial," he says. "Because we're human beings and feel pain like anyone else, there was a political turn on the events, but I'm proud we have avoided that.

Ya know why it's so hard to have a conversation with the lefty left? Why it keeps going in circles and never gets anywhere? Why it's so damned surreal?

To the far left, their ideology isn't an ideology. It's just plain fact. Which is why they front things like insanely vapid arguments that the "press" is "right-wing," when the press corps is 90% Democrat and it shows in their "coverage" every day.

To the far left, it isn't "bias," it's just facts.

Which is also why they seem to have no shame - how can they be ashamed of "doing the right thing," wven when "the right thing" is aiding and abetting the murder of millions in the name of "social justice."

So, who are we to expect them to feel any shame over loading their political baggage into a memorial for the losses of "little Eichmanns?"

Having a conversation with a far lefty is exactly like having a conversation with a religious fanatic. Which probably goes a long way to explaining why we keep finding ISM, ANSWER and other Communist holdovers cuddling up with islamic terrorists.

Does it still face Mecca?

This is coming up now on Fox.

They said what?
hmmm...
What temperature does that sucker need for sustained self ignition...
wait... that would be wrong...
Can anybody stick it in the back of their truck and take it to the scrapyard where the steel will get some good use?

Chen Zen, the self-proclaimed voice of reason. Rubbish! Everyone knows that I am actually the voice of reason. /sarc

Chen, you can't give yourself "the voice of reason" title, no more than anyone else can. Everybody thinks their own opinions are the reasonable ones, you big DUmmie.

You're not the voice of reason. You're just another BDS-infected moonbat who has all the Run-DNC talking points memorized.

Research mission for LGF'rs:

"found factual by an Arizona State University history professor"? Who?
Ali Rajai Warrayat's mentor?

Is Yaser Alamoodi the Professor's assistant?

Maybe it is James Riding In who said of Ward Churchill:

“His work is viewed highly. I use it in my classes,”

Discussion on FNC "coming right up" on this Arizona "memorial."

TO: poteen
RE: Okay

"No direct tax money that I see.
Cities and city agencies sponsoring 'fund raising' is dubious but probably no different than doing it for the local Little League." -- poteenm

Was CAIR, or one of their ilk, a major contributor? Perhaps the Saudi government or some group from there?

Regards,

Chuck(le)

They are talking about this memorial on Fox News right now.

#151 lisan

How is it that Arizon's memorial get hijacked?

I don't know. In fact, the first I heard about it was AFTER it was dedicated and I'm the most informed news-junkie I know!

#138 EC..

NYC politics for sure. It is the liberal capital (no what SF says)

#131 Spiney...

They should call it what it is. A political protest memorial. Nope. They gotta do everything sneaky.

information@AZ911Memorial.com

Or... complain to these sponsors of the Memorial:

sponsors

#73 ChenZhen

It's not like 9/11 resulted in the deaths of 3,000 right-wingers.

Well, that speaks volumes as to how buried in your ideology you are.

You don't see lefty blogs picking through the memorial looking for neo-con subliminal messages.

Have you actually seen any of these lefty blogs whereof you speak? Watch any Moore or "Screw Loose" documentaries? Listen to any liberal friends berating "jingoism" and "triumphalism" when anyone on the right so much as speaks to honor the dead without making excuses and apologies for it all being "America's fault?"

In other words, what planet do you live on?

I suppose I could give you links, if I was willing to wade through the fever swamps. But I'm not, so I'll have to leave it as an exercise for the reader.

#151 lisan:

Yes, it can be done - and very well, too. I suspect that the more the community involvement, and the greater the input from regular people, the greater the chance it will be a heartfelt tribute to the victims. But the greater the involvement of academics and prestigious architects, the more PC and "inclusive" the memorial is likely to be. After a few more attacks, we all may look at today's PC monuments in a different light. They'll be modified or torn down and replaced with something new or just abandoned to become junkie-filled parks. That wouldn't surprise me one bit.

J.D. (#147),

The one that always ranted about PNAC?

That's him.

Saskatchewan Morlock

Quite the loon he was.

Arizona state rep. says it's constructed on state land. The taxpayers will therefor pay for the value of the land, lighting, security, maintenance, parking lot, trash removal, grass cutting, lawn watering, for ever and ever and ever...

I bet it is defaced soon.

I'm glad that Russell Pearce is angry over this travesty. He gets things done in the AZ legislature.

The thing to remember is the majority of libs are not at their core Americans.

They are 'internationalists'. They consider themselves citizens of the world, not US citizens. Thats why they are so pro UN, for open borders, and why they hate signs of patroitism such as the flag, pledge, etc. Thats why lib celebs run all over the world bad mouthing the US.

Thats why Billy BJ Clinton wants to be head of the UN.

J.D.
joe was the classic definition of a troll.

1. verb. To troll for hits is to post a provocative article purely in order to generate an angry response...

I can't understand why people seek/need that kind of attention.

Maria Matt Salenger were co-designers. Homepage is [Link: www.colabstudio.com...] were they porivde us with their fav News sources:

- Center for American Progress [Link: www.americanprogress.org...]
- TomDispatch "A Project of the Nation Institute" [Link: www.tomdispatch.com...]
- AlterNet [Link: www.alternet.org...]
- [and the onion]

Since these 'artistes' get their 'news' from sources like the above, they probably really do believe that the memorial is apolitical.

front page teasers from 'News'...
- Bumbling Bush is baffled
- The rest of the industrialized world gets universal health care. The U.S. gets limited access at a far higher cost. It's time for Americans to get the health care system they want, and the savings that go with it.
- In the world today, one ancient religious ideology, monotheism, stands out as especially dangerous, repressive and loony.
- 'Maverick' GOP Senators Cave to Torture President
- Secret CIA Prisons in Your Backyard

#156, anotherindyfilmguy

Can anybody stick it in the back of their truck and take it to the scrapyard where the steel will get some good use?

Unfortunately, they got some WTC steel for this farce.

The memorial incorporates actual relics from the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and the field in Shanksville, Pa., where Flight 93 crashed. A 2 1/2-foot-long steel beam from the 44th floor of Tower One of the World Trade Center sits on a concrete pedestal. Rubble from the Pentagon and a scoop of dirt from the Pennsylvania field are mixed into the concrete.

From Hot Air, there is a reference to the minutes 1/31/06 of Arizona Advisory Committee, and this indicates that another connection to ASU through the 9/11 memorial project consultant, Nancy Dallett, “who participated in creating the text as well as checking it for accuracy.” Dallett’s bio is here, and she is listed as part of the ASU History Department, as the program associate for public history programs.

My guess, given the Committee minute description, is that Dallett made a significant contribution to the text selection, and accuracy checks, since that looks to be her professional role. I am going to do some more checking.

160 Chuck Pelto

Don't 'CAIR' Chuckles. It's still just a giant garbage can.

174 Dar ul Harb 9/24/2006 11:05AM PDT

Unfortunately, they got some WTC steel for this farce.

Rubble for rubbish.

Unlike the despicable "Crescent of Embrace", the shape of this one doesn't bother me.

The proposed inscriptions, tho, are enraging.

However, I don't like this whole post-modern memorial thing. In my opinion, memorials should be somber and solemn, or inspiring when it's the case. I can see almost daily monuments of the British Empire age, and they have this style; they are moving and inspiring. Yes, stone eagles would be a better choice.

Allah at hotair has updated his post to include a koskidz diary...
Righty Blogs Fume Over AZ 9/11 Memorial

The "anti-idiotarians" of the blogosphere aren't happy with Arizona's 9/11 Memorial. LittleGreenFootballs called it a 'disgrace'

HA!

A better use for World Trade Center steel...

"Never Forget"

#157 mich-again
Where are the trolls? The komments are talking about then getting banned for telling the truth over here. Where are they?

#179, Killgore

That's our very own "voice of reason" right there...

#167 Geepers
He wasn't as stupid as he was naive.

#172 easy
It's known as a character disorder.
Usually the result of poor parenting.

/no, really!

#138 ---

"... this memorial seems ham-handed."

taken from your KOS quote...

THAT'S funny and ironic.

I know that was not that author's intent, but that struck me as interesting.

Fabio

The proposed inscriptions, tho, are enraging.

These inscriptions are not proposed! This memorial is done! It's there. You can see it live and in-your-face right now!

#179 Kilgore

That is the trolls article from up above.

Chen Zihn.

This is easily fixable. Take some good pictures of the inscriptions, post them on the web, and let the world see the idiocy of the left.

Then after a few weeks of mocking brain dead American hating professors and mindless, moronic widows (Ann Coulter was indeed telling the truth), I'll bring my welder and a cutting torch to "fix the inscriptions."

Then I can add new ideology of my own.

(1) The Ayatollah is an Assahola

and

(2) Islam is a gutter religion

#182 Dar ul Harb
Ah, I didn't know he has a koskid. I find it interesting that we have a couple koskidz openly posting here (Sura109, Chen Zen, etc.) but how many Lizardoids openly post at Dkos? Qella used to until they banned her for pointing out their anti-semitism.

#187 goodbye_natalie
i was thinking of good words to explain my findings... thanks for giving them words

now i can say

Islam is a gutter religion

Whats their credo over at Kos anyway?

Any enemy of my country is a friend of mine?

#181 Killgore

I've been trying to catch up with you for the last couple of days. Since you're a connoisseur of moonbat blogs, I knew you'd love this, which I found by a link from Dr. Sanity.

There are a ton of great quotes there, but here's my favorite:

It's pretty disturbing how Instapundit has turned into a literally fascist blog with literally fascist readers.

Enjoy!

C'mon over Chen Zen, C says you're safe. Don't be such a chicken.

In other words, the history professor has a leftist slant to his ideology and widow Donna Bird has no idea what she is talking about.

OK it's halftime...I thought of a better idea. This website says "Never Forget", right? I would like to see a list of 9/11 memorials you guys actually approve of. Then we'll have something to debate about.

#194 Chen

I already listed three. Go upthread.

#191 rickl

No "Rite Wankers" allowed. This was a light-hearted post about the leader of Iran, not some kind of political screed. So what, the guy looks cool, and at least he represents his country well. Our "president" makes us look like a bunch of buffoons, um, because he IS a buffoon.
...
Chavez wiped the floor of the UN with Bush. It's a fact.

HA! They still haven't fidured out that Chavez made the American left look bad. The dems and the LLL have many more elections to lose before they figure that out.

#153 Merovign

You've got it right.

The crescent is interesting: were it not for the loony-tunes inscriptions, the image, by itself, could be interpreted as a crescent hovering over and threatening the people caught inside.

#151, lisan

This August at Cal Expo, they had the first stage of the 9/11 memorial completed and on view. One part of the memorial is a beautiful sphere in red-brown marble, engraved with the names of all those lost. The engraved sphere floats and rolls on top of precision water fountain atop a cylindrical marble pedestal.

I'd take a red soccer ball over a bus shelter.

(Couldn't they have inscribed the names in a spiral over the surface?)

#194 ChenZhen
Why not something simple and tasteful like a list of names? The vietnam memorial come to mind. Why junk it up with political statements?

The Vietnam War Memorial, that Mecca pointing red cresent for a while ago, and this crap;

Why are they all;

1. Underground or extremly low?
2. Why are they all semi circles?
3. Do not look like a war memorial?

I mean, look at the memorial to the russian soldiers who died in WWII. Why can't we have a memorial that does not hide in the ground.

Also

...all the inscriptions were found factual by an Arizona State University history professor...

"You don’t win battles of terrorism with more battles"

? That's a fact?

#11 DoctorDentons . . .

Why do "American" designers do this...is it to get the publicity, the face time on TV or are they really so eaten up by hate for this country that they will do anything to harm it. I would normally be the first to be against any type of rioting or destruction of property but sooner or later there has to be something done.

The fact that they're crappy artists has something to do with it. It's much easier to design this kind of empty monument than to do some kind of realistic sculpture. So they pretend they're "cutting edge." They also get free publicity when people object.

Lots of bad art is disguised this way.

However, given their attitudes, I feel no guilt (even though Yom Kippur is approaching) telling people to graffiti, hack, scratch, and otherwise deface this "monument." That's cutting edge too, according to their viewpoint. That's the "people" speaking, as imagined by Karl Marx and Antonio Gramsci.

#194 Chen.

OK it's halftime...I thought of a better idea. This website says "Never Forget", right? I would like to see a list of 9/11 memorials you guys actually approve of. Then we'll have something to debate about.

Thats just stoopid on its face.

Lets change the subject since I am loosing this argument. Thats your answer?
You think it would be okay to make the DC WW2 memorial in the shape of a stylized rising sun or swastika?

#185 Kirly

My bad, I understood this thing is still under construction.

mama winger (#195),

I already listed three. Go upthread.

LOL. ChenZhen, isn't interested in that. He knows all 'bout us racist NASCAR rethuglican bushbots.

His little crybaby "I know you'll ban me for my o' so courageous statements which will prove to the world how right and righteous I am" was proof enough of that.

Shove a fact in his face and he calls you rude. You're the one "starting" it for not validating his opinion.

And don't expect much of his proclaimed forthcoming "debate". Rather expect a limp "Oh. I didn't see your post, gotta go. Cheers" cop out.

#203 hous bin pharteen
It's called "reframing" the debate.

Hey kids, IT'S OPPOSITE DAY!

Woke up this morning and found out that reality has been inverted. There's some guy on C-Span this afternoon with a book about the strange alliances between radical islam and the extreme right.

He has the unfortunate name of George Michael, and will be on book tv at 2:15 pacific.

TO: poteen
RE: Sure...

"Don't 'CAIR' Chuckles. It's still just a giant garbage can." -- poteen

...but that doesn't abrogate the benefit of knowing who put that kind of money up; Saudis, CAIR, idiotarians, etc., etc., etc...

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Know your enemy... -- Sun Tzu, The Art of War]

I'm curious, if it is America's policies that are to blame for 9/11 wouldn't that make Clinton far more to blame? He had 8 years whereas Bush only had 8 months and hadn't done anything of note up until then?

The answer is: of course not. Islamofacist scum bags don't really give a fuck they just want to kill as many "infidels" as possible and make up their reasons afterwards.

TO: varmint
RE: Opposites Attract

"There's some guy on C-Span this afternoon with a book about the strange alliances between radical islam and the extreme right." -- varmint

That may be true...but I doubt if even many of the 'extreme right' would like to live in dhimmitude. Maybe the Muslims on the extreme right, but they wouldn't be subject to that now...would they.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Know your enemy... -- Sun Tzu, The Art of War]

ChenZhen:

"It's not like 9/11 resulted in the deaths of 3,000 right-wingers." You don't see lefty blogs picking through the memorial looking for neo-con subliminal messages.

So if half of the victims are dems, the memorial must contain extreme leftist agiprop? How about NO politics. How about honoring the people that died, as opossed to propaganda?

Where are the Right Wing agiprop memnorials? Please list them.

#151 Dar ul Harb

Maybe spiral engraving would have worked, certainly would have been beautiful as well. Size and cost may have been a factor, though, as I know the precision milling and engraving was very costly. All I can say it that it is beautiful, the fluidity and the way it moves. Visitors treated it with great reverence: No splashing, or fountain antics, pushing at the sphere, etc. and it really doesn't look as much like a red soccer ball over a bus thingy as the picture may indicate.

And the names inscribed said it all.

TO: chrisbg99
RE: Target!

"I'm curious, if it is America's policies that are to blame for 9/11 wouldn't that make Clinton far more to blame? He had 8 years whereas Bush only had 8 months and hadn't done anything of note up until then?" -- chrisbg99

Cease fire...

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Gunner: Wow, sir! Look at those secondary detonations. And that purple face!]

#53 THX-42 . . .

If they in fact build this second "Crescent Roll of Peace and Grayhound Bus Station For Jihadists", it would be fitting to use it for a controlled demolition experiment. You know, like the takedown of the twin towers...another "fact" worshipped by the liberals.

A controlled demolition would be a "happening." Do you remember those? If not, ask your former-hippy mother. ;)

ChenZhen

From your Koz post (right after you give contact info for Gov. Napolitano to express support FOR the memorial):

I'll probably be banned at LGF for this, but I had to say something

You will update this, right?

Dkos antisemitism noted mentioned on CNN...
David Frum - NRO - Says We at dKos Are Anti-Semites

David Frum was on the ironically named "Reliable Sources" on CNN hosted by Howard Kurtz and Frum called the Daily Kos anti-Semitic twice this morning.

And if we're going to talk about anti-Semitism on the campaign trail in 2006, I think people should be reading the comment section at the Daily Kos, where you will see it rich and bold and vivid

Nice.
here's the transcript

a marked resemblance to a crescent

We are insane.
Our enemies must be laughing all the time.

#206 Kilgore

It's called "reframing" the debate.

My bad. I missed that tactic

I lost my copy of the Communist Progressive Manifesto.

I will have to run down to my local DNC office and pick one up.

#194 Chen

OK it's halftime...I thought of a better idea. This website says "Never Forget", right? I would like to see a list of 9/11 memorials you guys actually approve of. Then we'll have something to debate about.

I showed you memorials I would approve of. Where is the debate you promised me?

#200 Percopius

Agreed. It's time America stands openly proud again. It has a lot to be proud of. And this fact should be reflected in its monuments.

But libs won't have it. They're ashamed of America. Ashamed of themselves for partaking of its abundance, personally benefiting from its prosperity, and participating in its system of government by paying taxes, etc. They want to shrink and hide and let the poor wannabes of the world have their day over us. It's only right, isn't it, that we, a nation of bullies and greed should hang our heads and apologize?

I'm sorry they feel that way, but I'm sure not sharing in their guilt.

Monuments should be for all of us, not just for them and their guilty consciences.

#151 Dar ul Harb:

I was looking at the picture of the inscribed spehre again, and realized that the section patterns of the inscriptions are pentagons. Nothing on this at the Cal Expo Memorial website.

TO: rtheyserius
RE: True

"Monuments should be for all of us, not just for them and their guilty consciences." -- rtheyserius

However, if they spent their personal money on it for the land and the materials and the labor, they can, pretty much, erect anything they want.

If it's taxpayer land and dollars, they can erect what they think they can get away with. And may the community remove whomever it was approved such a thing as this.

However, in either case, I would like to know who put up the money. That way, they can be properly denounced.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

"You don’t win battles of terrorism with more battles"

From whom did this bit of nonsense originate.

Geez, I had no idea there were so many moonbats here in AZ. I'd have expected something like this back in the Bay Area...

I was still in the Friday Night Fish thread when I posted this before I realized the topic moved here. My apologies if cross-posting is prohibited. I couldn't figure out how to post a link.

#346 ChenZhen

After reading 346 post, out of curiosity I took the link to learn about the Arizona 9/11 memorial which I'd heard nothing about before this. It's as disgraceful as Chenzhen's smarmy, self-absorbed, smug presentation of opinion. What really cooked my goose was when I read the following written by Chenzhen:

"But only a 'moombat' would think that, so LGF and the others call it a disgrace. I'd like to know if that entry was proposed by someone who actually lost a family member on 9/11."

I'm sick of people like you invoking family members of the dead in your conceited attempts to make an argument for your POV, working it in as a throw-away line, implying a moral superiority involved. You want to know? I'll tell you. I lost a family member in the plane that was crashed into the Pentagon on September 11. And I think the proposed Arizona 9/11 memorial is a disgrace. I think you're a disgrace.

Never, ever, not once have I heard any friend and family member express the argument you so casually throw out. I have, however, heard it all too often from those who are trying to defend the indefensible. It's insulting to decent people everywhere. With that line of reasoning, then a father who comforts his son and imparts strength to him because of his grandchild's death would be ineffective because he has never experienced the death of his own child? A woman helping a vulnerable friend heal from a tradegy isn't quite as effective because she hasn't experienced that tradegy herself? How stupid and small you must think the human race is.

It's shameful this line of thinking is used as conversational banter. In case I wasn't clear: It's disgraceful. Charles scored a hit when he called it. If he decides to issue a cyber restraining order and show you the door from his site, that's his business. Your posts fall in my category of what I call pothole posts -- I go around them.

Because I'm annoyed I'll break my own rule and play the word police. Bone up on the difference between effect and affect. They are not interchangeable. If you're going to write drivel, use a dictionary.

I'm done.

Oh wait, no - I'm not done. The snarky comment that "registration is always open" was meant as a side-swipe to LGF which offers periodic registration. A good leader knows the importance of a controlled harvest. Charles is a good leader.

Read #358 amalie. Sums it up with precision:
"It is very simple..it is supposed to be a memorial to the victims of 9/11."

Now I'm done.

Here's something that is

A) Factual
B) Not on the memorial

The only good jihadi is a dead jihadi.

#222 Chuck Pelto

They should also be called to account, since they esouse a liberal philosophy, for why the money wasn't better spent on feeding the poor, etc. These people are not even consistent within their own framework.

#227 -- that should have been "espouse" not "esouse".

#194,

Human beings have been memorializing the dead for millenia. Surely there's a creative designer that could have come up with something better than this, drawing on the design language of all that history.

A memorial is for the ages. If you want a sundial, you might not go wrong with a colossal stone gnomon in the shape of a jetliner's tail. It's evocative of the event, certainly, and if you incribed the names of those murdered on it, it would also evoke a headstone.

Cath (#225),

Stands clapping.

#225 Cath

Good post.

And I'm sorry for your loss.

I didn't lose any relative or friend on 9/11, but I'm still burning about it. I haven't forgotten.

Thank you Cath for finding the words we all wanted to say.

#225 Cath

My heart goes out to you and your family for your loss.

Chen Idiot is like so many (all?) of the "progressives" in this country - a self-absorbed (read narcissist) moron.

[Link: www.mentalhealth.com...]

#225

..With that line of reasoning, then a father who comforts his son and imparts strength to him because of his grandchild's death would be ineffective because he has never experienced the death of his own child? A woman helping a vulnerable friend heal from a tradegy isn't quite as effective because she hasn't experienced that tradegy herself?..

You could not be more right. I mean, actors, writers, flim makers, theoritical fields, etc... would all be impossible if the standard is you must have personal experience to paticipate.

Bravo Cath!

“You don’t win battles of terrorism with more battles.”

That is correct. You win them by annihilating the perpetrators and then there will be none of them left to engage in any battles...

These people hide behind the term "Terrorist" when what it means today is an act of war by people without a state that is defined by boarders...rather by a "state in the mind" that crosses all boarders.

Our political understanding doesn't fully understand this new 'state' and doesn't allow us to fully engage them because of this lack of definition.

Consequently the only effective way of dealing with them is a few MOABs and apologies later...this way inaction doesn't begin to define us.

And then terrorists understand what terrorism truly is--not the fear of attack, but the reality of annihilation.

#212, lisan

and it really doesn't look as much like a red soccer ball over a bus thingy as the picture may indicate.

I didn't mean to say that the sphere was over a bus thingy, I meant that I would take that memorial over this Arizona one!

And now that someone explains that the pentagons on the sphere are evocative to them of The Pentagon, rather than a soccer ball, I'm a little more O.K. with how they did it. Spiral carving, would, as you say, probably be more expensive, but it would have looked better...

#194--chunking---you are placated by the "never forget" lingo at the website--a/ this is a blatant ripoff of the princple jewish holocaust remembrance slogan--go visit yad vashem [the holocaust martyrs and heroes rememberance museum in jerusalem] if you want to see a proper memorial--b/"never forget" can just as easy linked to the LLL narrative of prior u.s. "imperialist" foreign policy toward turd world ****ries being the impetus for the koranic salafi inspired jihad planes operation--c/you are an ignorant smegmatic doodyhead--impervious to logic and fixated on understanding the other--may the last words you hear before your neck is smited by a dull jambiya be "allahu "ackbah"--because if we have your neonate illogic and relativistic value free epistimology, we can expect many more memorials--keep it up needledick--weakness is provocative--i fart in your general direction!

instead of a memorial to remember those who have sacrificed their lives,” he said.

I'd rather he said "to remember those who were slaughtered by Islamic terrorists on 9/11."

somone explains, PIMF. you explained...

#237 lol

I realize that this is a DT, but I'm hoping someone will see this link (if I don't screw it up).

I never realized that the Earth's rotation resulted in anything other than the sun making arc across the sky. Even at the winter solstice the path of the sun is still an arc, not a crescent. If you trace the shadow of the tip of a gnomon through the course of the day at either solstice or an equinox, it is an arc. The shadows the sun casts at any point during the year do not create a crescent.

Kentucky Vietnam Memorial

The link is to the website for the Kentucky Vietnam Veteran's Memorial in Frankfort, Kentucky. It is a tasteful memorial, on which the tip of the gnomon's shadow touches the name of the memorialized soldier, sailor, or marine on the anniversary of his or her death.

If you scroll through the link, you will find a diagram of the plaza of the sundial. The arcs for the summer and winter solstices are designated by arcs in the granite. The equinox line is a nearly straight line across the plaza.

In Kentucky, we know enough to know that the sun's path across the sky is not a freakin' crescent.

#106 crashnburn

What ever happened to just building a freaking memorial? Does the Washington Monument question how George Washington treated the Indians in the French and Indian War?

Just build the thing and shut up about everyone else in the world's feelings!

Amen!

Leaving aside for the moment all else that's wrong with this monument to seething egos ..

“You don’t win battles of terrorism with more battles.”

Since when? But, of course, the framing of the statement implies equality of meaning and purpose between the 'battlers' -- which is at the core of this common place wrong thinking .. leading logically, albeit futilely to: "We are all terrorists, so what does anything matter?" What a waste.

241 Copperhead Ridge

Now that's a memorial. The AZ thing is trash.

#225 Cath

"Now I'm done."

Maybe so, but your words have gone on to strengthen all others who may be feeling a bit battle weary .. and I feel certain your morally logical words have the power to open the eyes and hearts of those just entering the fray. (Glad too that you gave ChenZen 'what for' for confusing "effect" and "affect" - important distinctions between those two words ..)

Bravo and thank you Cath!

Copperhead Ridge (#241),

Each name is placed so that the tip of the shadow touches his name on the anniversary of his death, thus giving each fallen veteran his own personal Memorial Day.

The location of each name is fixed mathematically…by the date of casualty, the geographic location of the memorial, the height of the gnomon and the physics of solar movement. The stones were then designed and cut to avoid dividing any individual name. The resulting radial-concentric joint pattern suggests a "web", symbolic of the entangling nature of this war.

Nice. Very nice.

I don't want to tout Kentucky tourism, but the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Frankfort is a tasteful and touching memorial. I see this memorial very often, and I never lose my appreciation for it.

I've taken many people to it, and I'm struck by how it moves first time visitors.

By the way, the names of the missing are behind the gnomon; therefore, never in shadow. Also, the verse from Ecclesiastes 3:2-8 are inscribed behind the gnomon.

If any of you are in Frankfort, you really should visit the memorial, especially if it is a sunny day. Sunsets are spectacular from this location, too.

#236 Dar ul Harb

I had a cluebat moment about the pentagonal inscriptions, thinking this was obvious to everyone but me from the pic, so glad you see them as well.

I confess that I am prefer traditional memorials, such as those one sees at the civil war battle sites in Virginia, Gettysburg and Antietam. But I also think the Vietnam and Korean Memorials are terribly moving, because of the starkness, and names or etched figures of the fallen on the granite. In the end, the memorials must be about the people who gave their lives, and if a memorial doesn't capture that, what is the point?

#225 cathy:

Excellent post.

The memorial is supposed to be about the memories of those murdered by the Islamic terrorists on 9/11.

A good memorial about 9/11 is not about root causes, false linkages and perceived similar events in history.

In the NY metro area, we've got a bunch of good memorials already. There's one in the Meadowlands that has two piers jutting out into the water, both facing towards where the Towers once stood along with a bronze sculpture of what the skyline once looked like.

There's a 25-foot high bronze scuplture of a fireman's trumpet in Brooklyn.

There are bronze plaques at the fire house across the street from where the WTC once stood.

These are just some of the memorials that honor the memories of the firefighters who gave all so that others could live. They are memorials that do not insert po-mo multi-culti pablum into the solemnity of what we're remembering.

Here's a list of a bunch of other memorials around the country relating to 9/11.

My #248:

..I prefer

I previewed and it wasn't my friend.

i quite enjoy watching news stories bubble up from the blogosphere and then surface in red type on drudge report.

re: chenzen's argument about complaints about the crescentoid shape of the 9/11 memorial in arizona:

unto itself, many might not readily notice the crescent incorporated into its shape.

but within the context the vomitizing "crescent of embrace", then the complaints about the arizona memorial's shape take on more credibility.

finally, i don't want to outlaw the crescent as an architectural motif. however, i cannot totally condemn the need to question the use a crescent shape in a memorial for victims whose killers' last words were likely "allah hu akhbar".

#241 Copperhead Ridge

I read your link.

Now that's a memorial.

clarification and pimf:

but within the context of the shanksville's vomitizing "crescent of embrace", then the complaints about the arizona memorial's shape take on more credibility.

Thanks to everyone. Horror and anguish visited EVERYONE that day. Like rickl said "...I haven't forgotten." All of you prove the point with your untiring and fearless speaking of the truth, unceasingly making the distinction in substance and spirit of who the enemy is. It is all of you who cause me to cheer you on while I'm reading. I'm not a cheerleader but I play one in cyberspace for LGF.

Cath

Hat thrown in the air for your strength and resolve.

Crawl away ChenZhen.

Cath
Way to go!

Well, that about wraps it up, CZ.

Copperhead Ridge
I've been there and it is beautifully done.
I know one of the names on there.

Clarification: I am not a member of the word police. At work I hold the winning ticket for mangled grammar and spelling in the global emails I'm required to send out. I just wanted to say that. I was being petty. I love PIMF.

I want to say something here. As far as LLL it isn't so much they feel 'guilty'; the justify the things they do wrong as 'right'. What they suffer from is NO 'moral compass' and they are cowards! They envy people who actually stand up and protect someone else because no where in their bodies do they have what this takes. So they bash the US (in the name that they have the 'right' to do this and they can). They have 'thinner' skins than a tomato...if Don't Believe Like Them! Watch 'offended' they get. They get their opinions out of thin air with Nothing to back it up other than their opinion. They are so OPEN minded they have let their brains fall out of their head.

Sorry for the rant. I know too many people like this. They tell you right is wrong/wrong is right all in the name of being right.

And whoever funded this 9/11 memorial it is a disgrace.

PIMF

Sorry for the mistakes in my upper post!

Suz

#223 easy 9/24/2006 12:22PM PDT

"You don’t win battles of terrorism with more battles"
From whom did this bit of nonsense originate.

It obviously wasn't George Patton:
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.

I live in AZ, so I have a unique opportunity. To wit:

The Honorable Janet Napolitano
Governor of Arizona
1700 W. Washington
Phoenix, AZ 85007

Dear Governor Napolitano:
I am writing you to express my grave concern about the captions listed on the Arizona 9/11 Memorial. I am appalled that you, as Governor, would allow political correctness to dictate what events other than 9/11 to commemorate on such a landmark…or left-wing phrases such as this:

I then inserted the offending Drudge photo, and continued:

I have visited the 9/11 Memorial…twice in the last week…to carefully observe what was written. I have concluded that only the 9/11 events, and Arizona’s responses and losses to same, is what should have been shown. Nothing else!
Regardless of the method the funds used for the construction of the memorial were raised, there are many voters who hold you as ultimately responsible, and I am joining them. This debacle with the Arizona 9/11 Memorial is yet another reason why I look forward to voting you out of office on November 7.
Thank you for your attention.

And to add insult to injury, I put a Ronald Reagan stamp on the envelope! The rest of you...you know what to do.

#225 Cath 9/24/2006 12:23PM PDT

Bravo. It has all been said now. Those without ears will not hear no matter how many more times it's stated.

America is infected with traitorous scum. War is coming. I'm not encourging it; I'm merely reading the tea leaves.

TO: rtheyserius
RE: Denouncement & Accountability

"They should also be called to account, since they esouse a liberal philosophy, for why the money wasn't better spent on feeding the poor, etc." -- rtheyserius

That's part and parcel of being 'denounced'.

"These people are not even consistent within their own framework." -- rtheyserius

But that's typical 'liberal/progressive' behavior. As some Wag put it almost 2000 years ago, "Some people build their house on shifting sand." And woe to them when they are held to account by an authority greater than ourselves.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

P.S. As Ann Coultier so aptly put them..."godless".

How long till the day America has its 2nd civil war? Will it be after the next 9-11 attack? What will mark the beginning? Will it be the burning of the NYT's, the Harvards, the Yales? and or the frog marching of politicians who refuse to do anything?

Looks like the inscriptions there will provide a propaganda center for indoctrinating jihadi wannabes for the terrorist war against the US.

What happened? Seems like while everyone else was asleep, the radical Left took control of this, in order to support their radical Islamist partners.

#36

We lost a few citizens in 9-11. But, more importantly, it was our country that was attacked. We are a part of the US ya know.

Part of the US? Would not know it by that piece of shit memeorial and the crap inscibed on it. How about giving people a sledge hammer and charging them $1.00 a hit to destroy that piece of crap. Donate the money to the families of the 9/11 victims

#265 bringiton 9/24/2006 02:05PM PDT

How long till the day America has its 2nd civil war? Will it be after the next 9-11 attack? What will mark the beginning? Will it be the burning of the NYT's, the Harvards, the Yales? and or the frog marching of politicians who refuse to do anything?

How about the frog marching of Noam chompsky, Ward Churchill, cindy she-hag, Michael(the embodiment of insidiousness) Moore. These, and may other American Vichy supporters, will be called to account for their treason when that day comes.

OT: can't we have a thread on the Clinton interview?

It is becoming apparent to me that many leftwingnuts consider it a tour de force for B.J.

#194 ChenZhen 9/24/2006 11:44AM PDT
OK it's halftime...I thought of a better idea. This website says "Never Forget", right? I would like to see a list of 9/11 memorials you guys actually approve of. Then we'll have something to debate about.

Something that doesn't emphasize islam would be a good start. To hell with islam.

#225 cath --- Amen!

Let's see if chenzhen understands your well-written words; ah, who cares if he does.