LGF

Tiny Minority Not So Tiny

Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 9:01:56 am PDT

That “tiny minority” of radicals has somehow become a “large majority” who support jihad, Al Qaeda, and terrorism, want to establish shari’a in every Islamic country, deny Al Qaeda’s responsibility for the 9/11 attacks, and believe the US wants to “undermine Islam.”

UPDATE at 4/26/07 9:12:10 am:

More details (and more attempts to spin this to minimize the threat) from al-Reuters: Muslims believe U.S. goal to weaken Islam: poll.

Attitudes toward Al Qaeda, we are told, are “complex.”

“Attitudes toward al Qaeda are complex. On average, only three in ten view Osama bin Laden positively. Many respondents express mixed feelings about bin Laden and his followers and many others decline to answer,” WorldPublicOpinion.org said.

More than half believed al Qaeda’s goals included achieving a strict application of Sharia law in every Islamic country, with more than 70 percent agreeing with that aim.

More than 50 percent believed the militant Islamist group was pushing the United States to remove its bases and military forces from all Islamic countries and 63 percent agreed with that goal.

But the poll found uncertainty about whether al Qaeda was responsible for the September 11 attacks on the United States in 2001. Some 20 percent believed the U.S. government was behind the attacks.

“On average less than one in four believes al Qaeda was responsible for September 11th attacks. Pakistanis are the most skeptical — only 3 percent think al Qaeda did it,” said WorldPublicOpinion.org.

“There is no consensus about who is responsible for the attacks on New York and Washington; the most common answer is ‘don’t know’.”

UPDATE at 4/26/07 9:38:49 am:

Here’s the story at World Public Opinion:

Most significantly, large majorities approve of many of al Qaeda’s principal goals. Large majorities in all countries (average 70 percent or higher) support such goals as: “stand up to Americans and affirm the dignity of the Islamic people,” “push the US to remove its bases and its military forces from all Islamic countries,” and “pressure the United States to not favor Israel.”

Equally large majorities agree with goals that involve expanding the role of Islam in their society. On average, about three out of four agree with seeking to “require Islamic countries to impose a strict application of sharia,” and to “keep Western values out of Islamic countries.” Two-thirds would even like to “unify all Islamic counties into a single Islamic state or caliphate.”

UPDATE at 4/26/07 10:38:25 am:

Judith Klinghoffer looks at the survey in depth, and concludes it’s a dishonest “push poll:” Poll: US unpopular but winning War on Terror.

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81 comments

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1 Chicken Kiev  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:03:56am

No surprise to us.

2 Terp Mole  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:04:36am

uhn... can't help myself...

3 d. Lapin  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:04:39am

I'm shocked! You mean they don't love us?

4 Ben Hur  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:04:40am

Time for benchmark driven aid.

5 friarstale  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:04:53am

someday I hope the whole "dar al harb" (or whatever it is) wants to "undermine Islam"

6 Merovign  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:05:23am

Well, that was certainly a nice little piece of data mining on the part of SFGate to ensure that only questions that resonated with their radical readership appeared.

Well, it's San Francisco, what did anyone expect?

Still doesn't quite do what they wanted.

7 Chicken Kiev  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:06:17am

Baldfaced lies promoted ever since 9/11:

Religion of peace.
Tiny minority of radicals.
They don't hate us, they just hate racism.

8 unreconstructed rebel  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:06:38am
... wants to undermine Islam.

Yup, Got that part right.

9 loppyd  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:07:31am

I am shocked and chagrined!

/Jackie Chiles

10 Just_A_Grunt  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:07:44am

I saw several articles yesterday talking about this poll and the general concensus was Egypt, you got a problem.

11 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:07:51am

More info here:

Poll: Muslims distrust U.S.

Majority in 4 nations surveyed don't think al Qaeda was behind 9/11, say America wants to undermine Islam

*sigh*

12 samhein  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:08:09am

You mean...they don't like us? I think I'm going to cry...They've scared me for life!

13 Pass The Moonbaticide  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:08:17am

I saw how tiny that minority was - Dancing in the streets on 9/11.
Just after the London attacks of 7/7 , a tiny minority of 73% of Muslims polled believed that the attacks were justified .
Let's u[date that saying : Lies , Damned Lies and MSM Reported Statistics .

14 P. Aaron  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:08:18am

Gee... Democracy seems mildly popular.

15 Chicken Kiev  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:08:21am

Ah. Now I see it is SFGate. Top feature in today's SFGate is a hearts-and-flowers memorial about a legless and homeless alcoholic who died when he was run over while crossing the street toward a liquor store.

16 Sharmuta  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:10:31am

Hey Egypt- since you seem to think so poorly of the US, perhaps you won't mind if we keep our 2 billion dollars we send you.

17 Terp Mole  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:10:58am

Meanwhile a very tiny minority (one ex-Muslims) is blamed for "Islamising" the Netherlands;

Muslim women glad Hirsi Ali quit Netherlands

Now almost a year since the former Dutch parliamentarian hit headlines worldwide for admitting she lied to gain asylum in the Netherlands, many of the Dutch-Muslim women Hirsi Ali sought to stir and inspire state bluntly they are relieved she is gone.

The 37-year-old now works for a U.S. think-tank, while her international profile as an ex-Muslim critic of Islam soars.

"I am glad that Ayaan Hirsi Ali is gone, because now the tone has softened, it has become less extreme and tensions have eased," said Nermin Altintas, who runs an education centre for migrant women.

Hirsi Ali is held responsible by many in the Muslim community for "Islamising" the Netherlands' migrants, polarizing communities and diverting attention from those trying to boost integration in what they see as a more constructive approach.

"Let her call one woman forward and show how she really helped her," said Famile Arslan, a 35-year-old family lawyer.

18 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:11:03am

#14 P. Aaron
But only as a popular tool to install a Sharia based theocracy. After that democracy will not be needed.

19 crashnburn  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:11:30am

Looks like SKerry was right - we need to make sure the rest of the world likes us.

NOT!

20 Dirk Diggler  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:12:00am

That $2 billion that we give to Egypt annually has bought us a lot of "good will" hasn't it?

21 pat  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:12:09am

In Muslim Logic this all makes sense. Rejecting sharia law means that you have caused the radicalization of otherwise peaceful, secular, Muslims.

22 tommylotto  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:12:46am

Look on the bright side. Most of them are gainst attacks on civilians. Only problem is, the survey did not define "civilians." To them, a civilian is any one who is not an infidel.

23 Iron Fist[deleted]  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:13:22am
24 pat  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:14:04am

OT
Irony alert. Bush says that immigration laws must be enforced. Wonder where anyone got the idea that the Feds were complicit in ignoring immigration laws?
[Link: www.wnd.com...]

25 Ben Hur  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:14:51am

Somehow this is a critique of the US and not the idiots taking the poll.

Who controls the information that these geniouses are basing their views on?

Who educates these people.

What are they teaching them?

Our actions are not the reason.

26 little boomer  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:17:05am

At least they didn't support attacks on civilians.

27 Terp Mole  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:17:21am

The "Islamizing" of Eurabia continues;

"Are you nuts?" A woman converts to Islam

Rabi'a Frank is a 31-year-old Dutch woman who converted to Islam in 1994, changing her first name from Rebecca.

She is married to a Moroccan man who grew up in the Netherlands, and they have three sons.
---
Bubbly and spirited, Rabi'a spoke to Reuters in her home, where she unveiled to reveal a blonde pony tail and western clothes.

"I was young when I became interested in Islam and when you are young, nothing is strange, you just dive in. It is a bit of a cliche -- I had a Moroccan boyfriend. At first I wanted to learn more about his culture. I got out library books about Morocco and then I got to Islam. I read about it in secret. I didn't want to give him the impression that I was doing it for him.

"I first read the Koran in Dutch translation and it just got into my heart. It felt good, I could relate to it, I understood and it touched me.

"I heard of a Muslim centre in The Hague and I went there every week. Then one day the imam asked me if wanted to join some others taking their Shahadah (proclamation of faith in God). I gulped. 'Already?' I thought. I didn't think I knew enough yet, but then I agreed.

"I wore this ugly scarf I remember, I just grabbed one from the closet. After the Shahadah I couldn't stop crying. It was very emotional.

"When my mother heard of my conversion she rushed into my room screaming and crying, yelling: 'Why did you do that, what are you thinking?' It was awful. I thought to myself: 'That reaction is exactly why I didn't tell you.'

"Wearing the hijab felt like a form of liberation. Every day I had had to walk past some builders and they would whistle at me. Then the morning I walked past in my hijab they didn't.

"On the one hand I felt so happy, thinking, 'Finally, this is who I am,' but on the other hand I wanted to say 'Hey, look, I am still the same girl underneath.'

28 doppelganglander  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:18:15am

I should certainly hope the U.S. is trying to undermine Islam. If these poll numbers are correct, mainstream Islam is dedicated to killing the infidel, establishing sharia'h, new caliphate, yada yada yada. Of course we should be trying to undermine them.

29 JohnRC  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:19:35am

When can we expect Islam to undermine Islamofacism?

30 Joshua (not a hamster) Scholar  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:19:57am

Wow, I don't think I've seen a whitewash like that SF-Gate article in years.

I'm not sure what the official name for that sort of propaganda is, but when an article claims to tell you about an even and leaves out everything that's important - essencially lying to you that you know what happened, I call that "innoculation"

That way you think you know what the debate is about so you don't seek out any new information, but you've actually been entirely misinformed.

31 we1  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:20:48am

The real news is that the Koran created al Qaeda. And until the Koran is dealt with in an open and honest manner - there will be more groups just like al Qaeda [as if there weren't enough of them already]

That's the real news - but al Reuters wouldn't know real news if it bit them in the ass. It's just a metter of time - before it does - because will reap what the Koran does sow among the young.

32 Joshua (not a hamster) Scholar  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:22:13am

Oh the source for that "article" is the San Francisco Chronical.. I should have known.

33 El matamoros  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:22:50am

Seriously, EVERY GODDAMN MOONBAT, DUMBASS , TRAITOR, ISLAMO-APOLOGIST, 9-11 TRUTHER, Neo-NAZI, SOCIALIST, DHIMMICRAT, AMERICAN IDOL WATCHING DOLT, AND ANYONE ELSE SHOULD BE TIED AND FORCED TO READ THAT ARTICLE!1!1!
They should learn to memorise it like every fucking splodey dope learns to memorise the koran in their "house of homo erotica" MADRASSA!
IN FACT THIS ARTICLE IS POINTLESS BEING POSTED ON LGF! Why? Cause we've known about this for FOREVER!

I have Cassandra syndrome. Cassandra was a person who knew the future but could do nothing about it. She foresaw her own inevitable death.
This is the same situation, Ive known about this since 1999. (second Jihad coming) yet no one cared and no one listened. Guess what? that situation has not changed. Whatever, i give up.

34 hous bin pharteen  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:27:54am

To all you questioning why giving aid to Egypt has not made them like us and are suprised by it, you should not be. (or acting suprised)

The government gives out aid here at home, and do the people receiving it end up with a warmer loving feeling towards that government?
No. They bitch, moan, complain, and demand more.
To them its a right owed to them.
Why would Egypt be any different.

35 finallyhere  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:29:25am

Did Barack Husein Obama promise more aid to his former co-relegionists so they would love us more?

I may be wrong.

36 dicentra  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:32:08am

Charles, I love your guts, but this particular SFGate article does not say that the majority of Muslims "support jihad, ... and terrorism, [and] want to establish shari’a over the entire world."

These polls purport to show that the majority of Muslims in Pakistan, Egypt, Morocco, and Indonesia:

• Believe the US wants to undermine and divide Islam

• Approve of attacks on US troops in Iraq

• Don't think that Islam justifies attacks on civilians

• Think that democracy is an OK system for governing their countries

This article says Muslims mostly don't think that al Qaeda was responsible for 9/11, and that al Qaeda's goals are "standing up to the United States, affirming the dignity of Muslims worldwide, and pushing the United States to stop siding with Israel in its conflict with the Palestinians."

Also,

"At the same time, majorities in the four countries said they support globalization, democratization and religious freedom -- values Kull said suggest that support for al Qaeda is less about supporting the group's goals, and more about supporting its opposition to American hegemony."

So, support for al Qaeda, yes, but maybe not for what al Qaeda is really up to. Maybe they just like seeing the Big Guy get his comeuppance, or whatever.

Now, granted this is the SFGate, and they're spinning this as far to the left as they can, but this particular article doesn't say that Muslims want to impose shari'a or that they think jihad and terrorism are OK. Just attacks on our troops, which you can argue are military targets.

This poll might not be accurate, it might not be representative, it might not be true in the least.

But I'm afraid that Charles mischaracterized the article's contents on the front page.

Sorry.

37 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:33:18am

So where's andalus this morning? I wonder how he'll spin this?

38 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:35:11am

#15 Chicken Kiev

Maybe they can put up a staute of the drunk, in Golden Gate Park. Or in front of the Ferry Building.

39 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:37:20am
On average, only three in ten view Osama bin Laden positively.

Only 30% of 1.5 billion?...Well that's a relief, I was worried that it was a large number.

40 JoiseyMafia  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:38:05am

The Muslim world is just worried that we(The West) are going to have a launch a pre-emptive countert attack to their planned jihad.

They may have realized they have way overplayed their hand with the lies, deceptions and outright calls for murder. CAIR has pretty much done that for the jihadists. Cair has lied so much that not many people(except for the Far Left) are falling for the childish temper tantrums, calls for religious co-operation and intergration bullshit.

I would say its better to kick a bullies ass first when you have more than enough proof that he is up to no good and thats what the majority of the Muslim world has been up to lately. Pushing the envelope everywhere you look. Europe, Southern Asia, Australia, Canada and now right here in Americas backyard.

I say wack them first before they hit us. Its coming and theres enough proof that one or more of the major terror groups have something cooking and it wont be pleasant.

41 Cathy in Northern Virginia  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:38:50am

I would have liked to see the poll data on the following questions:

Opinion of the position of Islam regarding attacks against Infidels living in non-muslim countries.

Opinion of the position of Islam regarding attacks against Apostates living in non-muslim
countries.

42 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:41:03am

37 Ward Cleaver,

So where's andalus this morning? I wonder how he'll spin this?

Actually yesterday I linked to this poll in a response to andalus' assertation that "radical" imams don't speak for most muslims.

He didn't reply.

43 Dave the.....  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:41:37am
only three in ten view Osama bin Laden positively

Well that's good. Only 30% of them admire the neo-nazi mass murderer.

44 Dave the.....  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:42:56am
That $2 billion that we give to Egypt annually has bought us a lot of "good will" hasn't it?

Thank you Jimmy Carter.

45 Charles  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:43:20am

dicentra: you're correct in one criticism--the poll says Muslims want shari'a in Islamic countries, not the entire world. I corrected that. But I disagree that anything else I wrote is inaccurate; read the actual poll results linked above.

46 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:47:12am

36 dicentra,

More than half believed al Qaeda's goals included achieving a strict application of Sharia law in every Islamic country, with more than 70 percent agreeing with that aim.

70% is no tiny minority and if you took Indonesia out of the equation the numbers would be higher.

47 BabbaZee  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:59:12am

Charles ~
In an Islamic world view they think the entire world already belongs to Islam and is merely waiting to be re-conquered
So
you were right to begin with.

48 El matamoros  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 9:59:26am

#42 ringo
"37 Ward Cleaver,

So where's andalus this morning? I wonder how he'll spin this?"


SO what are you saying? Is there a Islamo-apologist on LGF with the name of Andalus?

That REALLLY pisses me off. If you know what my Screen name means you'd know why! ;)

I think that doink is gonna get a quick lesson in REAL Spanish history real quick. Not some MultiCULTi bull he got spoonfed by his liberal arts professors. Of course if he is a Muslim and not a Leftist-apologist, my history lessons will come to naught anyway. They have thier own "constructed" history.

49 Spiny Norman  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 10:01:45am

#27 Terp Mole

Somebody has serious "daddy" issues.

50 neverquit  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 10:04:34am

heeey maaan, no hat tip Charles?

sniffle, lol, just joking -

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

51 goodbye_natalie[deleted]  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 10:04:35am
52 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 10:09:11am

#48 El matamoros

He claims to be a moderate, spouts the whole "tiny minority" meme, then when called on his claims, bugs out.

53 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 10:11:59am

#45 Charles

But then if you take the position that they believe the whole world should be islamic, then it follows that shari'a should be imposed on the whole world, since all countries would be islamic countries.

54 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 10:13:15am

#51 goodbaye_natalie

Oy Mr. Natalie, that must have been some comment.

/it's gone

55 BabbaZee  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 10:15:53am

The Islamist goal is a caliphate (a single, global state, ruled by the Shari‘a)..


One

the MB under Akef's leadership follows in the path of its predecessor Mustafa Mashour, who in August 2002, stated: "we will not give up (the goal) of restoring the Muslim Caliphate." (Asharq Al-Awsat, 9 Aug. 2002).


Three



The Caliphate is coming

/later Lizardim

56 ChenZhen  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 10:17:02am

Maybe they should have asked the "kill millions of Americans" question.

57 Crimsonfisted  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 10:23:02am
Most significantly, large majorities approve of many of al Qaeda’s principal goals. Large majorities in all countries (average 70 percent or higher) support such goals as: “stand up to Americans and affirm the dignity of the Islamic people,”


What "Islamic people"? Islam is not a race nor is it a country and I am SICK of those references.

58 ploome hineni[deleted]  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 10:26:16am
59 El matamoros  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 10:29:58am

#52 ward clever

What do you mean by "moderate"? Is he still opposed to ISlam? The reason being that no Spaniard Except a socialist like Zapatero would ever pick the name "Andalus". Maybe he's not a Spaniard. That is the kind of name that a Touchy feely liberal would pick in the name of "universal harmony". Do you know what it means?

60 dicentra  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 10:31:02am

Charles:

Indeed, the World Public Opinion article mentions the part about Muslims wanting shari'a in Islamic countries.

The SFGate article, however, does not, nor does it provide a link to the WPO article or survey.

So that would lay the shame on the SFGate for — surprise! — whitewashing the story.

However, it's strange that the actual survey, (linky) shows BOTH that people want shari'a applied in their countries AND that they think democracy is an OK way to govern their countries.

Maybe they figure they can apply shari'a democratically.

In any case, the SFGate article didn't provide much support for what you originally wrote, but it would appear that the original survey did, and SFGate went into spin cycle.

My apologies for any false accusations.

61 cry of defiance and not of fear  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 10:38:37am

An interesting article on [Link: www.dhimmiwatch.org...] entitled: "Attending Muslim Open House at the Mosque" detailing, especially through the Reader's Comments following it, how the 'infidels' are given a false image of Islam.

One visitor exposes the cracks: schoolbooks full of anti-semitic nonsense, unwillingness to state where mosque funding comes from, mosque websites linking to extremist groups, etc and makes the valid point that so-called 'moderate' Moslems should be viewed as possible "Trojan horses" to lull Western society into complacency and acceptance until Moslem numbers are sufficient to prove a problem in our societies. At the very least, the 'moderates' won't raise a finger to contend with the 'jihadists.'

62 Beagle  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 10:42:09am

Why don't alarm bells go off in every person when the term "Islamic nation," "Islamic country," or "Islamic land" is used?

Has the collective IQ of civilization dropped to the point we don't know what theocracy sounds like? Hint: do you hear the term "Christendom" bandied about much these days?

The world is a finite place. Over fifty nations have been closed off to other religions, the nations of the OIC. There Muslims have special legal rights and in every nation the non-Muslim minority (where they still exist) is persecuted and dwindling.

At the same time, Muslims are moving to every other nation on earth in polygamous families having four or more children per wife (on the instructions of their leaders).

In every case, the new minority pushes for special rights, sharia law, and dominates their new culture.

/Don't worry. Be happy.

63 Sabraguy  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 10:59:44am
On average, about three out of four agree with seeking to “require Islamic countries to impose a strict application of sharia,” and to “keep Western values out of Islamic countries.”

How Muslims want to behave in their own countries is their own business. But what millions of us object to, is that while keeping Western values out of Islamic countries, they are relentlessly seeking to introduce Islamic values into Western countries.

The double standards are glaring. The obvious solution for those seeking a Muslim way of life is to emigrate to an Islamic country.

64 luzbone  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 11:22:13am

World Public Opinion is connected to GlobeScan.

A very, very close friend of mine was "laid off" from there partly as a result of differing political opinions. The method was this: Give a promotion when GlobeScan was still connected to Environics (Environics International). Then when the company merged with another company, the company said that the new position was no longer needed and the person was let go.

The severance was fairly good. Probably proportional to the guilt that they felt in letting this person go.

He was the senior graphic designer. Developed all their templates, their look, redesigned their website, developed their new logo. Then two weeks before the merger he was let go.

They were not liking the pro-Israel stance of this person, they were not liking the fact that the person was not anti-Bush and anti-Blair.

But all this cannot be "proven".

They have an agenda and will use polling information to promote their vision of "a better world" rather than reflect reality.

65 tommylotto  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 11:34:59am

Not only do I wonder about the definition of "civilians" as used by the responders to this poll, but also what they mean by an "Islamic country." Is the territory soon to be the former land called Israel an Islamic country? How about Spain? Don't forget Sicily!

66 luzbone  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 11:38:47am

GlobeScam.

67 wrathofasma  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 12:00:03pm

dicentra

The majority of Muslims in the countries polled may want Sharia only for their country, but what is to stop groups like Al-Qaeda and CAIR (go to Anti-CAIR.com to read what some officials have said) from spreading Sharia all over the world? That's why this poll is important. If there is wide support for Sharia within their own borders, then they will not do much against those that want to wage jihad against us, the dirty kuffar, either in Europe, the US, India, wherever. In fact, they will support them. As # 47 BabbaZee said, Muslims think the whole world is Islamic.

68 IndependentCalguyinTX  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 12:09:29pm

I don't want to weaken Islam, I want it moved to the dust bin of history where all death/slavery cults belong.

As for SFGate being in spin mode; I have read the SF Comicle all of my life since I'm from Oakland, and graduated from THE University of California with a degree in History. The Chron is nothing more than the NYT - West Coast/SF Bay Area version. The paper teaches all to distrust any politician with an R after their name. It is a schill for my former party - the Democrats. They have a "holier than thou" attitude towards all those not from the Bay Area when most of those folks at the paper and Bay Area citizens in general now are the freaks and weirdos from everywhere else who have wrecked the Bay Area and California in general by driving up prices with their socialism, and belittling anyone with a capitalistic mantra. And the politicians follow them as if there was a ring through their collective noses.

If this paper actually had cajones they would be investigating why the UFW does not picket the grape growers whose usage of undocumented workers has completely undermined all the hard work that Cesar Chavez accomplished (Mr. Chavez was not pro border jumper, he believed in protecting Mexican-Americans, and not the undocumented who only drive the wages paid to UFW members down). In case anyone forgets, there was a decade or longer strike against grape growers led by Chavez and the UFW against the non-union hiring practices of the growers and the extremely low wages they paid to undocumented workers while Chavez and the UFW were organizing Mexican-AMERICANS whom were longtime field workers.

Why are they not picketing Pelosi's and all the other democratic heavyweights who own vineyards and wineries? And why is the Chronicle no longer protecting UFW members with expose's on those who have thrown them under the bus? Because it is the Democrats who are the owners now, whereas back in the day, it was the members of the Republican party.

69 Sharmuta  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 12:46:56pm
It is a push poll because a careful examination of the questionnaire reveals that the pollsters designed it to prove that the US is losing the War on Terror but ended up proving only that it is winning it, albeit in a most unpopular manner. Over 75% of Muslims in Egypt, Morocco, Indonesia and Afghanistan strongly oppose terror against both Muslims and Westerners.

The devil in polling is always in the questions asked. Thanks for this update, Charles.

70 andalus  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 12:51:46pm

Are you freaking kidding?


1- Support standing up to the United States, affirming the dignity of Muslims worldwide, and pushing the United States to stop siding with Israel in its conflict with the Palestinians.

2- that attacks on civilians -- including Americans -- are never justified

3- suicide bombings are rarely or never justified

4- majorities in the four countries said they support globalization, democratization and religious freedom -- values Kull said suggest that support for al Qaeda is less about supporting the group's goals, and more about supporting its opposition to American hegemony.


Egad! How radical!

Maybe 3 world muslims should be in favor of getting invaded and killed?
Maybe they should all just become atheists like Wafa, Ayaan and Salman?

You guys are ridiculous.

71 Sharmuta  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 1:03:10pm

70 andulus

Maybe 3 world muslims should be in favor of getting invaded and killed?
Maybe they should all just become atheists like Wafa, Ayaan and Salman?

Maybe they should protest against al qaeda and militant islamists, or would that be asking too much and create fitna in the ummah?

Again- clean up your own house. You don't like the militant islamists in your midst? Deal with them yourself then, or step aside and we'll do it for you. Either you are on our side against militant islamists or you're not. But don't sit there doing nothing about your problem except complain that we're doing something about it.

And if I may ask- what branch of islam do you susbscribe to? Just curious.

72 tommylotto  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 1:11:51pm

"Maybe they should all just become atheists like Wafa, Ayaan and Salman?"

That would be a big improvement...

73 R2D2  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 1:22:12pm

Only three in ten love Al-Qaeda?

Ohh, it's nothing, just a 400,000,000 muslims. Dismiss it...

74 BabbaZee  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 1:32:45pm

Andalus

Your god is a blood guzzling abomination and the father of all lies.


You should know from ridiculous.

75 cry of defiance and not of fear  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 2:10:48pm

#79 andalus: My, you do get around, from thread to thread, yet never with an answer to a question. I suggest you revisit the Danish Mindcrime thread and see my last point or I can just summarise it here:

The 'scholarly interpretation' of which you speak, ijtihad, was rejected by all four major islamic branches by the 11th century AD (in the year of Our Lord Jesus Christ). It was anyhow a very narrow, highly delineated field basically practised by islamic jurisprudence, not by everyday folk.

Whatever 'moderation' you may hope to effect upon 'islam,' the rest of the world will not sit by patiently for this dubious 'reformation' because, and this is the crunch point:

No one who eventually learns of Muhammad's conduct, words and deeds will grant to either Islam or its adherents any respect, obeisance or tolerance.

76 Hot Rod Kid  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 3:08:30pm

I couldn't pass up this thread without repeating my humble opinion about Islam after studying its behavior and reading some of the Koran the past 4-6 years.

Of all the religions out there, Islam is one of the most pathological and logically unsound doctrines. It's a religion that attracts the mentally unbalanced and uncreative. Those who need structure and rigid guidelines to take the pressure of thinking and making responsible decisions off them would find Islam ideal. A person would be far better off to follow the simple rule of "don't be a jerk" and "be kind and polite to others" than following the hundreds of rules in Islam.


/Sorry, this is a post and run. I gotta go feed the family. I'm a man and I guess under Sharia Law I should be beheaded or lashed for performing a woman's duty of cooking in the kitchen. BTW, I'm not being sarcastic. I really believe everything I just wrote about Islam.

77 dicentra  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 3:41:39pm

wrathofasma:

I know it sounded like I was being an apologist for the SFGate's or WPO's spin on the poll, because I was criticizing Charles's description of it (I hadn't seen the actual poll, just the SFGate article, when I wrote that first comment), but click my football. I've been an avid LGF fan for awhile now, and I know the score when it comes to fascism and fanaticism.

I just don't like to see us mischaracterize a particular article, even if the article was a snow job. In this case, Charles was a bit off and I was a bit off, too.

78 missouri boy  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 3:51:03pm

#70

You guys are ridiculous.

No, what is ridiculous is the world accepting islam's lie, that it is a religion. islam is a political ideology at best. islam is the slime that crawled from under lowest outhouse in mecca.
Nothing should be believed from a "religion" that permits lying,kidnapping,ransom,slavery,killing,and more, all in the name of it's pagan god (it is a rock in a box, stupid) and it's pedophile prophet.

IMHO. ROPMA! Want more? Name one religion in the world that killing unbelievers is permissiable? other than islam. Name one other religion in the world, that demons (jinn) think is "a most wonderful religion"? other than islam. just saying...

79 cheese_burger[deleted]  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 4:29:16pm
80 BabbaZee  Thu, Apr 26, 2007 5:56:42pm
81 Pass The Moonbaticide  Fri, Apr 27, 2007 3:33:07am

Andalus is here ...
WE ARE NOW AT TROLLCON ONE


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