LGF

Totten: Hell is Over

Tue, Sep 18, 2007 at 6:29:37 pm PDT

Anbar really has awakened, and you shouldn’t miss Michael J. Totten’s latest report.

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533 comments

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1 Shug  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:30:10pm

totten is da man

2 Thanos  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:31:45pm
That murder can’t undo the changes in the hearts and minds of the locals. If anything, assassinating a well-respected leader who is widely seen as a savior will only further harden Anbaris against the rough men who would rule them.

“All the tribes agreed to fight al Qaeda until the last child in Anbar,” the Sheikh’s brother Ahmed told a Reuters reporter.

3 Catttt  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:31:50pm

This is excellent! I am now smiling.

Mr. Totten is amazing.

4 Golem Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:32:47pm

Ought to be required reading for all J-students and all "practicing" journalists of the msm.

5 me  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:32:50pm

reality?

The MSM will ignore it.

6 SecretInternetDoucheBag  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:35:35pm

re: #4 Golem Akbar

Yeah this is when the difference between right and left in America becomes truly apparent. If this was on DailyKos the posters would be ridiculing this and posting how we have already lost and there is no hope, here you get people that actually want us to succeed.

7 meMarc  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:35:45pm

Hugh Hewitt read the whole thing on his radio show this afternoon. Told his audience to go on-line and look at the photos. Linked it at his website.

8 m  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:35:57pm
That murder can’t undo the changes in the hearts and minds of the locals. If anything, assassinating a well-respected leader who is widely seen as a savior will only further harden Anbaris against the rough men who would rule them.

Hear that kossacks?

“All the tribes agreed to fight al Qaeda until the last child in Anbar,” the Sheikh’s brother Ahmed told a Reuters reporter.

Now that they are fighting back, it won't get to that point.

9 Golem Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:36:08pm

There is hope and Totten is reporting on it.

10 SecretInternetDoucheBag  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:36:10pm

Hahahahhahah everyone is still on the OJ thread.

11 Judith  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:37:17pm

I did it! I survived the OJ thread and got to something new AND good. (You planned that didn't you Charles.)

12 meMarc  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:37:26pm

re: #10 SecretInternetDoucheBag

Great nic. First time I saw it.

13 m  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:37:36pm
“As of July 30,” Major Peters said in early August, “we’ve have 81 days in the city with zero attacks since March 31.”

Things you won't hear in the msm for $100 Alex.

14 sattv4u2  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:38:03pm

Hugh Hewitt was reading Tottens report on his show tonight. Interspersed were wonderings when the MSM would pick any of it up.

Like the Energizer Bunny, I'm waiting and waiting and waiting !

15 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:38:49pm

Michael's pictures are so amazing. I'm most struck by the pic of the gorgeous red dress amid the rubble, but all the smiling Iraqi children is what warmed my heart.

Keep up the fantastic work, Mr. Totten.

16 Golem Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:39:42pm

re: #14 sattv4u2

Hugh Hewitt was reading Tottens report on his show tonight. Interspersed were wonderings when the MSM would pick any of it up.

Like the Energizer Bunny, I'm waiting and waiting and waiting !

I heard it, too. But like the bad old days of journalism, the MSM still believes in the adage: if it bleeds, it leeds. Lefty scumbags.

17 Catttt  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:39:44pm

From the above report:

The late Sheikh Sattar Abu Risha, who was just recently murdered, to Johns Hopkins University professor Fouad Ajami:

Our American friends had not understood us when they came. They were proud, stubborn people and so were we. They worked with the opportunists, now they have turned to the tribes, and this is as it should be. The tribes hate religious parties and religious fakers.

18 SecretInternetDoucheBag  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:39:47pm

re: #14 sattv4u2

Hugh Hewitt was reading Tottens report on his show tonight. Interspersed were wonderings when the MSM would pick any of it up.

Like the Energizer Bunny, I'm waiting and waiting and waiting !

They are waiting for their marching orders from MoveOn.org and DailyKos.

19 cincinnati_kid37  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:41:05pm

When the Iraqi's truly hit critical mass in terms of rejecting the murderers, this thing will be over and the left will have no idea what hit them. They won't believe it in fact. We'll have a whole new set of troofers.

And no for another good tune and player -

20 Golem Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:41:29pm

MSM: good news in Iraq? yawwwn.

21 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:41:44pm
Violence has declined so sharply in Ramadi that few journalists bother to visit these days. It’s “boring,” most say, and it’s hard to get a story out there – especially for daily news reporters who need fresh scoops every day.

No news is good news, and all that. When a reporter calls it boring, you know things must be going right.

22 Thanos  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:41:56pm

In the end AQ's not the most dangerous branch of the army of the caliphate -- HuT is. Hizb ut Tahrir's flag is the same as Al Qaeda's, but they are craftier, making it black on white instead of white on black when they show it to the world at large. Sort of like Hamas and Samah in the HLF trial...
AQ craps its bed where ever it goes, eventually turning the local populace against them. They can't help it as long as they promulgate extreme sharia, and they can't stop doing that. To gain power in any region they recruit, and it's the sociopaths and psychopaths who are drawn to them.

HuT's more subtle, and uses broad issues to inflame passions in larger groups of muslims, without letting them see what will happen when the whip comes back.

23 l'omega  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:41:58pm

I delighted to read about the turn around in Anbar. I guess it makes sense: when people have a choice between freedom and prosperity on hand, and intolerance and terror on the other ... Let's hope that there are more stories like this in the future.

24 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:42:18pm

This story has been dugg.

I figure it's worth a shot.

25 SecretInternetDoucheBag  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:43:06pm

re: #23 l'omega

I delighted to read about the turn around in Anbar. I guess it makes sense: when people have a choice between freedom and prosperity on hand, and intolerance and terror on the other ... Let's hope that there are more stories like this in the future.

Well America did vote in Democrats to power last election so you might want to rethink your hypothesis.

26 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:43:47pm
“Old school methods defeat insurgencies,” Captain McGee said, “not brute force or technology. The key is to kill existing terrorists and prevent additional recruitment. Al Qaeda must have a safe haven or they will barely be able to operate.”

Democratic Party Platform for 2008!

27 Catttt  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:43:50pm

re: #24 Noam Sayin'

This story has been dugg.

I figure it's worth a shot.

Oh! I'm going to have to dig up my password!

28 Golem Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:44:42pm

re: #25 SecretInternetDoucheBag

re: #23 l'omega


I delighted to read about the turn around in Anbar. I guess it makes sense: when people have a choice between freedom and prosperity on hand, and intolerance and terror on the other ... Let's hope that there are more stories like this in the future.

Well America did vote in Democrats to power last election so you might want to rethink your hypothesis.

Some of us believe that a turnaround is possible, and the more Hillary exposes herself (ugh), the more likely that is to happen.

29 SecretInternetDoucheBag  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:47:14pm

re: #28 Golem Akbar

I was speaking about the choice between freedom and prosperity and intolerance and fear.

30 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:47:50pm
“You would probably be okay downtown,” he said, “but you would definitely be fine just north of town. If you tried that in February you would not have lasted four hours.”

“You trust the locals that much?” I said.

“I do,” he said.

“The only people I trust with my life in this country are the Kurds,” I said.

“I trust these people almost as much,” he said. “Are they petty? Yes. Are they tribal? Yes. Are they Arabs?” He rolled his eyes. “Yes. Do they believe in conspiracy theories? Yes. But they have their act together now.”

Leave out the last sentence, and you've pretty well described the Democratic party. No wonder they are cheesed about this -- people getting their act together is the last thing the Social Democratic party wants.

/channeling Neil Boortz for a second there.

31 l'omega  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:47:59pm

re: #25 SecretInternetDoucheBag

re: #23 l'omega

I delighted to read about the turn around in Anbar. I guess it makes sense: when people have a choice between freedom and prosperity on hand, and intolerance and terror on the other ... Let's hope that there are more stories like this in the future.

Well America did vote in Democrats to power last election so you might want to rethink your hypothesis.

I agree -- it would be tragic if any President were to turn around just as there was light at the end of the tunnel. I think that the mainstream Democratic Presidential candidates are smart enough to run on an anti-war platform, but choose a wiser policy after elected (or even after the primary!).

32 Golem Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:48:02pm

re: #29 SecretInternetDoucheBag

re: #28 Golem Akbar

I was speaking about the choice between freedom and prosperity and intolerance and fear.


Yeah, me too. (heh)

33 Tazzerman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:48:48pm

Here is the real and true face of the American soldier and what we as a country are really all about.. A helping hand and a true friend. Once people learn the truth, the rest is easy... The Japanese and Germans learned this lesson after WWII.. Unfortunately, only the S. Koreans were able to learn it after that conflict and the Vietnamese, well, they never had the chance.

If this message could only spread to the rest of Iraq...

34 SecretInternetDoucheBag  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:49:06pm

If there is any justice in this world this thread will get more comments than f@ckin OJ.

35 FrogMarch  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:49:49pm

This must really upset he Democrats and their surrogates in the main stream press

36 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:49:51pm
In early 2007 Ramadi, the capital of Iraq’s Anbar Province, was one of the most violent war-torn cities on Earth. By late spring it was the safest major city in Iraq outside Kurdistan.

MoveOn could not be reached for comment.

37 DesScorp  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:49:57pm

Heh, Murtha's going "damn, we'll have to tell Osama to try harder".

38 meMarc  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:49:58pm

re: #34 SecretInternetDoucheBag

If there is any justice in this world this thread will get more comments than f@ckin OJ.

That's what I'm hoping.

39 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:50:21pm

Now this part is interesting:


“We have one Iraqi lieutenant here who speaks pretty good English,” Marine Lieutenant Jonathan Welch told me. “You should talk to him. He has a sarcastic sense of humor and a really interesting point of view.”

“That would be terrific,” I said. “Can you introduce me to him?”

He went to find the lieutenant, but came back with bad news.

“He won’t talk to you,” he said. “Apparently some reporters recently spent a few days with him and his men. They wrote an agenda-driven story with a few quotes yanked out of context. He said the story was a total lie and that he refuses to have anything to do with the media.”

I heard complaints of that sort about the media every day from American Soldiers and Marines, but this was the first time I had heard it, albeit indirectly, from an Arab Iraqi.

40 Thanos  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:50:23pm

More good news from Iraq -- Empty Hospital beds

41 the_flying_pig  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:51:09pm

Goood mooorrning, Annnbarrr!
Got news?

42 lowandslow  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:52:15pm

I just got done reading Tottens piece, click LGF and here it is again.
Take the half hour or so and read it all Lizards. This is the kind of quality reporting that all the MSM should be doing.

43 meMarc  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:52:26pm

Everybody must be reading Totten's piece. Should pick up soon.

44 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:52:38pm

OK, last quote, but this one is really a doozy:


All the mosques now have pro-US messages now,” Major Peters said. “They used to be anti-American, in part because AQI barged in and told them to broadcast anti-Americanism or die.”

Find me a place in America or Europe where you can hear a pro-US message in a mosque. Reminds me of the Cold War days when the most staunchly pro-US public opinion in Europe was in countries behind the Iron Curtain.

45 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:53:06pm

Michael Totten has betrayed us. Clearly he does not read D.U. and Kos, so he has no idea what is really happening in Iraq.

/MoveOn.org

46 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:53:09pm

re: #43 meMarc

Everybody must be reading Totten's piece. Should pick up soon.

Either that or they on the OJ thread. Or still piling on Manilow.

47 Golem Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:53:31pm
48 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:54:09pm

Let's make Kurdistan the 51st state and Anbar the 52nd.

49 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:54:18pm
But in Ramadi the Marines are seriously considering dropping the helmet and body armor requirements because the low level of danger makes the gear no longer worth it. Protective gear doesn’t look intimidating, exactly, but it is hard to socialize properly with Iraqis while wearing it. It creates a feeling of distrust and distance.

*blink* *blink* Did I read that correctly?

50 meMarc  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:54:32pm

re: #46 Lucius Septimius

re: #43 meMarc

Everybody must be reading Totten's piece. Should pick up soon.

Either that or they on the OJ thread. Or still piling on Manilow.

O.J. Thread seem to have ground to a halt. I think people are reading Totten.

51 Golem Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:54:44pm

re: #48 Jim in Virginia

Let's make Kurdistan the 51st state and Anbar the 52nd.

Right after Cuba!

52 Wheelz  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:55:18pm

When this is all said and done, Michael Totten will win a Pulitzer prize or two.
Fantastic journalism on his part, job well done.

53 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:56:43pm
54 Golem Akbar  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:56:48pm

re: #52 Wheelz

When this is all said and done, Michael Totten will win a Pulitzer prize or two.
Fantastic journalism on his part, job well done.

Maybe just maybe other journalists will start picking up on his message, too. After all, the world has got to be tired of the same ole negative same ole.

55 Catttt  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:57:03pm
56 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:57:12pm

re: #35 FrogMarch

This must really upset the Democrats and their surrogates in the main stream press


Not at all. They wont read it. If they read any of it they'll disregard it and question its truthiness. Obviously Totten has an agenda. (Unlike the NYT or WaPo.)

57 meMarc  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:57:15pm

re: #52 Wheelz

When this is all said and done, Michael Totten will win a Pulitzer prize or two.
Fantastic journalism on his part, job well done.

Don't think it will happen. No mainstream organization is backing him up. He's on his own. Who votes for Pulitzer's anyway?

58 Thanos  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:57:21pm

OT: Security update out for firefox, there's an exploit out for the vulnerability. If you have autoupdates off, go get patched.

Exploit: Attacker can run script commands with the ((full privileges)) of the user.
Source: [Link: tinyurl.com...]

Mozilla Foundation Security Advisory 2007-28
Title: Code execution via QuickTime Media-link files
Impact: Critical
Announced: September 18, 2007
Reporter: Petko D. Petkov
Products: Firefox, SeaMonkey

Fixed in: Firefox 2.0.0.7
Description

On his blog Petko D. Petkov reported that QuickTime Media-Link files contain a qtnext attribute that could be used on Windows systems to launch the default browser with arbitrary command-line options. When the default browser is Firefox 2.0.0.6 or earlier use of the -chrome option allowed a remote attacker to run script commands with the full privileges of the user. This could be used to install malware, steal local data, or otherwise corrupt the victim's computer.

The fix for MFSA 2007-23 was intended to prevent this type of attack but QuickTime calls the browser in an unexpected way that bypasses that fix. To protect Firefox users from this problem we have now eliminated the ability to run arbitrary script from the command-line. Other command-line options remain, however, and QuickTime Media-link files could still be used to annoy users with popup windows and dialogs until this issue is fixed in QuickTime.

This QuickTime issue appears to be the one described by CVE-2006-4965 but the fix Apple applied in QuickTime 7.1.5 does not prevent this version of the problem.
Workaround

59 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:58:01pm

re: #52 Wheelz

When this is all said and done, Michael Totten will win a Pulitzer prize or two.

Hardly. Do not look for the leftists controlling Pulitzers to legitimize independent journalism or any journalist not toting the leftist line.

60 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:58:26pm

re: #53 buzzsawmonkey

You beat me to it!

61 Killian Bundy  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:58:31pm

re: #24 Noam Sayin'

Again, did you see the answer to your options question?

/last thread I'm chasing you on for this

62 Shug  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:59:16pm

re: #48 Jim in Virginia

Let's make Kurdistan the 51st state and Anbar the 52nd.


can't California just absorbe them and the billions of new medicaid/medicare/welfare payments? They're already paying the healthcare tab of Mexico

63 mattm  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:59:39pm

Those eeevil baby murdering troops, just shooting every kid that moves because they are evil

/moonbat off

64 Stormy  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:00:32pm

What an amazing piece! The pictures of the children really tell the story. They want to be happy kids, go to school, and do the same things as any other kid. I really appreciated the following quote:

They [the children of Iraq] are the ones I now think of when trying to figure out what the United States should do in Iraq. They are the ones who will have to suffer the consequences the longest.

65 SecretInternetDoucheBag  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:00:34pm

Anyone call this guy a traitor or Bush mouthpiece yet?

66 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:00:36pm

re: #58 Thanos

Thanks for the heads up.

67 l'omega  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:01:01pm

Wowl. The pictures tell such a wonderful story.

68 meMarc  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:01:13pm

re: #52 Wheelz

When this is all said and done, Michael Totten will win a Pulitzer prize or two.
Fantastic journalism on his part, job well done.

Pulitzer Board. (The internet is a wonderful thing.)

Lee C. Bollinger, President, Columbia University

Danielle Allen, Professor, Departments of Classics and Political Science and the Committee on Social Thought, University of Chicago

Jim Amoss, Editor, Times-Picayune, New Orleans, La.

Amanda Bennett, Executive Editor/Enterprise, Bloomberg News

Joann Byrd, Former Editor of the Editorial Page, Seattle Post-Intelligencer

Kathleen Carroll, Executive Editor and Senior Vice President, Associated Press

Thomas L. Friedman., Columnist, The New York Times

Donald E. Graham, Chairman, The Washington Post

Anders Gyllenhaal, Executive Editor, The Miami Herald

Jay T. Harris, Wallis Annenberg Chair, Director, Center for the Study of Journalism and Democracy, Annenberg School of Communication, University of Southern California

David M. Kennedy, Donald J. McLachlan Professor of History, Stanford University

Nicholas Lemann, Dean, Graduate School of Journalism, Columbia University

Ann Marie Lipinski, Senior Vice President and Editor, Chicago Tribune

Gregory L. Moore, Editor, The Denver Post

Richard Oppel, Editor, Austin American-Statesman

Mike Pride, Editor, Concord (N.H.) Monitor

Paul Tash, Editor, CEO, and Chairman, St. Petersburg Times

Sig Gissler, Administrator, Graduate School of Journalism

69 SecretInternetDoucheBag  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:02:33pm

re: #68 meMarc

So in other words your saying he does not have a snow balls chance in hell?

70 swamprat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:02:42pm

How is a Pulitzer nominated? Is there any way to start the process? I would like to see Micheal Yon put on that pedestal.

71 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:03:07pm

re: #61 Killian Bundy

re: #24 Noam Sayin'

Again, did you see the answer to your options question?

/last thread I'm chasing you on for this


Yes.

I knew you'd have an answer.

72 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:03:10pm

Hmmm, appears to be Stevie Ray Vaughn and Double Trouble at the Montreaux Jazz Festival in 1985 on my local Public Televsion affiliate.


Like a diamond ring in the trash compactor, good TV on PBS

73 SecretInternetDoucheBag  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:03:58pm

Thomas L. Friedman., Columnist, The New York Times
Lee C. Bollinger, President, Columbia University
Donald E. Graham, Chairman, The Washington Post

Here are three people that are voting for Dan Rather.

74 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:04:07pm

re: #58 Thanos

Heh. Just updated about two hours ago.

75 tblot  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:04:27pm

I heard this on the radio on hugh show. I just cannot believe not one and I mean one DEMOCRAT has came out and said something about this.
Amazing

76 EC Marm  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:05:05pm

Aisha two threads down.

77 Racer X  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:05:32pm

Wonderful! Absolutely wonderful news!

There will be zero mention of this in the MSM.

Good news = boring.

A Billion dead Iraqi civilians (lies) = front page.

78 marwan's daughter  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:06:09pm

Let's hope it lasts. Let's hope there are no traitors who will help AQ get back into Anbar. And given the appeal AQ makes to the religious Iraqis, it can happen soon.

79 itellu3times  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:06:24pm

re: #17 Cattt

From the above report:

The late Sheikh Sattar Abu Risha, who was just recently murdered, to Johns Hopkins University professor Fouad Ajami:

Our American friends had not understood us when they came. They were proud, stubborn people and so were we. They worked with the opportunists, now they have turned to the tribes, and this is as it should be. The tribes hate religious parties and religious fakers.

Yeaaah, but if you read that Ajami article (posted on opinionjournal.com last sunday), the next paragraph he sort of doubts that Risha was telling the truth, that is, it wasn't any fault of the Americans that the Sunni, including Risha, were shooting at them up to three weeks ago. The Sunni always pride themselves on being more western and secular, they *ought* to be our friends, heck they *were* our friends, the Saudis (secular? western? well, so it's not quite that easy!) still are our dear friends (puke). Sooo, what I'm saying is, it's complicated, and I won't count my camels until the goats come home, or something like that.

80 meMarc  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:06:57pm

re: #69 SecretInternetDoucheBag

re: #68 meMarc

So in other words your saying he does not have a snow balls chance in hell?

Don't really know. Seems to me the board would be prejudiced to vote for people they know and interact with. Also, if the press is liberal, then why would they vote for a guy who is reporting the opposite of what their papers are putting out. It would mean that the NYT and Miami Herald and their friends at Columbia are wrong.

81 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:07:02pm

re: #68 meMarc

My favorite old J-school professor is on the board. Kinda' to the left but, honest. And, tougher than hell.

82 swamprat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:08:34pm

re: #72 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet
No O.J./J-lo/Brittany/Natalee Holloway, on NPR. It's diabolical.

83 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:10:08pm

re: #82 swamprat

re: #72 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet
No O.J./J-lo/Brittany/Natalee Holloway, on NPR. It's diabolical.

Did OJ get drunk on the beach with no nickers? I must have missed something.

84 SecretInternetDoucheBag  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:10:38pm

re: #81 MandyManners

What is it about teaching Government and Journalism classes that appeals to people on the left? All the teachers of my Gov classes have been on the left end of the spectrum. Hell, the teacher of my Bias in Journalism class ran for office as a democrat. I mean kinda proved the point of the class when admitted to that one, then he shoved the whole "but journalists just write what sells and work for big CORPORATIONS" on us.

85 itellu3times  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:11:13pm

Waitaminute, let me say something much more positive.

This kind of reaction is *exactly* what George W. Bush has had in mind since day one. Maybe it took a while to happen, but if it sticks, George W. Bush's Christian faith in Sunni Moslems will have paid off bigtime, and the entire Iraq adventure will (eventually) be counted one of the greatest military and political decisions of the last thousand years.

86 swamprat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:12:14pm

re: #83 Lucius Septimius
Armed robbery in vegas/ some of his old stuff.

87 Irene NYC  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:13:11pm

re: #52 Wheelz

re: #84 SecretInternetDoucheBag


What is it about teaching Government and Journalism classes that appeals to people on the left? All the teachers of my Gov classes have been on the left end of the spectrum.

Conservative government teachers would only need 2 hours per semester to teach the course. Now, how fun would that be?
;)

88 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:13:16pm

re: #86 swamprat

Oh, I knew that. Just wondering if we could merge the other stories into one.

89 swamprat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:13:44pm

re: #86 swamprat

re: #83 Lucius Septimius
Armed robbery in vegas/ some of his old stuff.


Better; some of his former possessions.

90 bcgirl  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:13:46pm

i wish i could print this out and insert it into the NYT and Wall Street and also the local rag that i deliver every night, i am SURE i would get fired!

91 Catttt  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:14:31pm

re: #79 itellu3times

re: #17 Cattt


From the above report:

The late Sheikh Sattar Abu Risha, who was just recently murdered, to Johns Hopkins University professor Fouad Ajami:

Our American friends had not understood us when they came. They were proud, stubborn people and so were we. They worked with the opportunists, now they have turned to the tribes, and this is as it should be. The tribes hate religious parties and religious fakers.

Yeaaah, but if you read that Ajami article (posted on opinionjournal.com last sunday), the next paragraph he sort of doubts that Risha was telling the truth, that is, it wasn't any fault of the Americans that the Sunni, including Risha, were shooting at them up to three weeks ago. The Sunni always pride themselves on being more western and secular, they *ought* to be our friends, heck they *were* our friends, the Saudis (secular? western? well, so it's not quite that easy!) still are our dear friends (puke). Sooo, what I'm saying is, it's complicated, and I won't count my camels until the goats come home, or something like that.

Well, then - glad I didn't read the other piece!

Years ago, after the first gulf war, I read Republic of Fear and learned about how vitally important tribes are. Saddam tried his best to destroy the tribal system and undermined it, but it's hard to detroy a system that old.

Communicating and working with and for the tribes is still really important. In essence, they are the grassroots of the country, and that's why this makes me optimistic. The tribal sheiks have a great deal of power - real power, and talking to them, getting on the same page with them, is to me really vital.

92 meMarc  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:14:50pm

Another thing about Totten getting a Pulitzer. He posts on the internet. Are the guys on the board consciously or unconsciously ready to give a Pulitzer to a guy who posts on the internet? Don't know.

93 FredWM  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:15:33pm

Wow. The Democrats have to hope for the worst or they are in trouble. Of course, if their MSM partners do their best no one will know about this until it's too late.

94 swamprat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:16:20pm

re: #88 Lucius Septimius
They all seem to melt together into one mind-sucking,polymorphous I.Q.-lowering ooze.

95 Nadnerb  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:16:46pm

YAAAHHHOOO! This is the news we need to spread, spread, spread! Liberty and the pursuit of LIFE are truly universal concepts, as the Iraqis in Ramadi obviously understand. Thanks to each and every one of our fighting men and women in harms way! Thank you.

The tide has been turning, the surge is working. Much more needs to take place, for certain, but this is the most uplifting things I've read in a LONG time. Thank you Totten...

BPK

96 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:18:04pm

re: #84 SecretInternetDoucheBag

Check out Antonio Gramsci.

97 meMarc  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:18:19pm

Damn, that other thread just keeps on going. How many are on both? Oh, I see.
Charles is acting like a bellows and keeping the other thread burning.

#130 Charles 9/18/07 7:07:33 pm reply quote report 0

A -60 rating. My ego is staggering under the blows.

98 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:20:40pm

re: #97 meMarc

I got a sockpuppet that could make it -61.

99 newsjunkie_ky[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:21:48pm
100 cosmo  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:22:12pm

What's the name of that medal...you know...the highest honor for a civvie?

Congressional Medal of Freedom? Where does the petition start?

101 Fredlike  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:23:12pm

re: #98 Killgore Trout

Minus one to see how it would work, not to criticize your post.

102 SecretInternetDoucheBag  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:23:22pm

re: #96 MandyManners

re: #84 SecretInternetDoucheBag

Check out Antonio Gramsci.

Scary.

103 bikermailman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:23:44pm

re: #30 Lucius Septimius

“You would probably be okay downtown,” he said, “but you would definitely be fine just north of town. If you tried that in February you would not have lasted four hours.”
“You trust the locals that much?” I said.

“I do,” he said.

“The only people I trust with my life in this country are the Kurds,” I said.

“I trust these people almost as much,” he said. “Are they petty? Yes. Are they tribal? Yes. Are they Arabs?” He rolled his eyes. “Yes. Do they believe in conspiracy theories? Yes. But they have their act together now.”


Leave out the last sentence, and you've pretty well described the Democratic party. No wonder they are cheesed about this -- people getting their act together is the last thing the Social Democratic party wants.

/channeling Neil Boortz for a second there.

We just got Neil in our market as of yesterday. I hated to see Gordon Liddy go, have been listening to him for over ten years. Neil seems like he's going to be lots of good, though.

104 bcgirl  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:24:23pm

re: #13 m

“As of July 30,” Major Peters said in early August, “we’ve have 81 days in the city with zero attacks since March 31.”

Things you won't hear in the msm for $100 Alex.

this should be a frickin headline! I am so sick of not hearing news about how our military is WINNING not only battles, but hearts and minds,, that is all the msm complains about, how they are not doing what they clearly are doing! sorry for the excessive exclamation! not! ;-)

105 bj  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:24:56pm

Michael J. Totten is one hell of a reporter. The tears well up when reading his picture captions and text.

106 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:25:47pm

/I wonder if the number of comments complaining about the oj thread will be equal to or greater than the number of comments on the oj thread.

//Charles done got you goood.

107 meMarc  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:26:31pm

re: #98 Killgore Trout

re: #97 meMarc

I got a sockpuppet that could make it -61.

He's pimping for O.J. He's going for negative rating.
He's turning into Jerry Springer. Aaahhh!

Oh well, got to get some food.

108 Thanos  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:27:09pm

Was it just me, or did I smell fresh blubber two threads back? See my comment on Gregory Peck.

109 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:27:50pm

Sandmonkey is blogging again...

Tortured maid in serious condition after amputation of her limbs

An Indonesian housemaid is in serious condition following amputation of both her hands and feet after a month-long torture by her employers, said a member of the Saudi National Society for Human Rights.
...
The Indonesian housemaid, whose name was not given, was earlier admitted to the Riyadh Medical Complex, popularly known as Shimaisy Hospital, after being severely beaten for almost one month by her employers, a Saudi man and his wife. The doctors in hospital decided to amputate her hands and feet because of gangrene.
...
"It is clear that the woman was severely beaten after being tied up in the [courtyard of the house] under the sun for almost one month and was beaten with iron rods. Her teeth were knocked out and her lips were cut," the NSHR member pointed out.

Dr Nora called for maximum punishment of the employer and his wife.

"Cases of housemaids are the most complicated to deal with as this category does not know of a society that can help them and restore their rights," she said.

No protection for non-muslim women in the Apartheid Kingdom.

110 bikermailman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:28:01pm

OT: Not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but we may be seeing another Rathergate in the making. It comes on tonight on HDNet, Mark Cuban's network, so a lot of people won't have it. I'm recording it, and having my dad watch it. He's been working with composites for twenty years on helicopters and Ospreys, so I wanted his take. The American Thinker article in the link doesn't seem to think too much of it. heh heh. Fake but accurate redeux?

111 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:28:02pm

re: #102 SecretInternetDoucheBag

re: #96 MandyManners


re: #84 SecretInternetDoucheBag

Check out Antonio Gramsci.


Scary.

And, real.

112 El matamoros  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:28:07pm

I am glad of this story, but it aint over till its over. Only time will tell if the surge worked or not. It seems that the magic formula in the surge was that while previously the Admin had heavily favored the Shia and kurds in Gov't in Iraq They have now decided to "make deals" with the Sunni. This is largely in response to the rise of Shia militancy and Iran. Every player in the region fears a "shia cresent" that streches from Lebanon to Iran. Saudi arabia and others have been pressuring the US to make nice with the sunnis and to encourage the sunnis to stop attacking the Americans. The problem is where to go from there. They still need a unity Gov't and an end to ALL hosilities. How this war ends is really not up to what the US does but rather what the sunni and shia do to end the fighting.

113 bikermailman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:29:04pm

re: #59 Sharmuta

re: #52 Wheelz


When this is all said and done, Michael Totten will win a Pulitzer prize or two.

Hardly. Do not look for the leftists controlling Pulitzers to legitimize independent journalism or any journalist not toting the leftist line.

No, but hopefully, the military will recognize his and the other milblogger's service.

114 bcgirl  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:29:10pm

re: #15 Sharmuta

Michael's pictures are so amazing. I'm most struck by the pic of the gorgeous red dress amid the rubble, but all the smiling Iraqi children is what warmed my heart.

Keep up the fantastic work, Mr. Totten.

MEE TOO, I thought that picture was a real statement, very, very haunting and beautiful. and it really said f**k u AQ, at least to me.

115 R.A.D. Dad  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:29:49pm

These are the stories that need more attention...unlike a certain other story I had to run screaming by when I saw it actually mentioned here at LGF, pausing only long enough to give it a NEGATIVE rating. The only OJ I want to hear about is that fresh from the orchard orange juice I love.

People really need to understand what is at stake over their in Iraq, and they need to realize it's real people, real men, women and children with hopes and dreams who's lives are valuable that are at stake. There is hope, and there are hopeful stories like this one, they just need to be shouted more loudly from more rooftops.

116 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:30:47pm

re: #114 bcgirl

There was something about it. Haunting is a good adjective.

117 Pro-Bush Canuck  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:31:28pm

One look at the people in Totten's essay is enough to remind us that not every person who happened to be born into Islam is our enemy.

We have two enemies: Islamists and the Left. Al Qaeda appears to be much more evil, but if I had to choose I would definitely say that the Left is the more evil force in the greater scheme of things. Al Qaeda can be defeated; the Left is like a cancer, and will be a life or death battle for us for many decades to come, long after Islamism has subsided.

118 tridroid97  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:31:32pm

I read this piece at lunch today and immediately forwarded a link to all that I know who care, or can look at the situation objectively.

The pictures really do tell the story.

Rock On, Michael!

(Say, you don't think that "Journalism" student at the John F'n Kerry speech will get a clue from this, do you?) /

119 Thanos  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:31:57pm

re: #110 bikermailman

OT: Not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but we may be seeing another Rathergate in the making. It comes on tonight on HDNet, Mark Cuban's network, so a lot of people won't have it. I'm recording it, and having my dad watch it. He's been working with composites for twenty years on helicopters and Ospreys, so I wanted his take. The American Thinker article in the link doesn't seem to think too much of it. heh heh. Fake but accurate redeux?


You can send Dean Ing an email here, he might be interested. SF writer who loves new materials and experimental aircraft. Somewhat expert in them...

120 GreenDroll  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:33:10pm

The foreign fighters in Iraq hate the Iraqis more than they hate the Americans and find them much easier to kill. The foreign fighters are in Iraq to kill people in the name of God and if the US soldiers are difficult and/or risky to kill, they happily slaughter the locals. AQI can only operate in Iraq by quickly killing anyone who opposes, resists, or fails to support them. From the number of dead Iraqis I get the impression AQI has never enjoyed much local support. The more locals they have to kill in order to operate in Iraq, the sooner we will have the support of the populace. No matter how much the MSM trumpets the occasional coalition caused civilian death in Iraq, they can only fool westerners, they are not deceiving any Iraqis on the point of whom to be afraid of.

The Iraqis take notice of the pressure America is under to leave Iraq and have decided that it is easier to free themselves from AQI while the US is still there than it will be later.

121 meMarc  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:34:18pm

Hell may have left Anbar and moved to Pakistan. This just posted at Hot Air.

Pakistan troops 'lose faith in war on terror'.

122 Pro-Bush Canuck  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:36:12pm

re: #121 meMarc

Pakistan has been the belly of the beast from the start.

Strange how America's "allies" -- Pakistan and Saudi Arabia -- contain the socities (along with "Palestine") which are the most hostile to America on earth. Pakistan is probably the world's most prolific breeder of Deep Evil. Yet they are our "friend"...

123 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:36:47pm
124 bikermailman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:37:34pm

re: #92 meMarc

Another thing about Totten getting a Pulitzer. He posts on the internet. Are the guys on the board consciously or unconsciously ready to give a Pulitzer to a guy who posts on the internet? Don't know.

A thought: Given the infancy of the New Media... At some point in the not-so-far-off future, there may well be our own version of the Pulitzer/Peabody award. Not just us throwing kudos around, but for real awards, done by real New Media people. I'm telling you, the MSM is dying, rotting from the inside, just as sure as Rome was during the first few centuries C.E. We are seeing people stand up and take responsibility for our own information, and this little juke joint is a part of it!

125 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:38:16pm

OT, and no, I don't understand 3/4s of it.

Canadian Meteorological Centre (CMC) Global Environmental Multiscale Model (GEM)

The CMC's GEM is a hydrostatic global grid point model laid on a latitude/longitude coordinate system with 0.3 latitude-0.45 longitude (approximately 33 km at 49 degrees latitude) horizontal grid spacing and 58 vertical eta levels. The eta vertical coordinate system used in the CMC's GEM depicts the bottom atmospheric layer within each grid box as a flat step. The CMC's GEM employs an advanced and computationally expensive four-dimensional data assimilation scheme (4-D Var) where temporal variations in the initial data are included. The condensation package includes the Kain-Fritsch scheme for deep moist convection and Kuo Transient scheme for shallow convection. The Bougeault and Lacarrere (1989) mixing length is used for vertical diffusion due to atmospheric turbulence. The CMC's GEM is run through 144 hours at 12 UTC, 240 hours at 00 UTC, and 360 hours on Saturdays. The CMC's GEM has limited ability to provide useful intensity forecasts.

[Link: www.smc-msc.ec.gc.ca...]

126 merav  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:38:23pm

DOZENS DIE IN SYRIAN-IRANIAN CHEMICAL WEAPONS EXPERIMENT

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Sorry if it's been posted already.

127 Thanos  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:39:20pm

Memri has a clip up of Zero Degree Orbit, the Iranian soap opera about the Holocaust

[Link: www.thememriblog.org...]

128 bikermailman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:40:15pm

re: #109 Killgore Trout

Sandmonkey is blogging again...

Tortured maid in serious condition after amputation of her limbs


An Indonesian housemaid is in serious condition following amputation of both her hands and feet after a month-long torture by her employers, said a member of the Saudi National Society for Human Rights.
...
The Indonesian housemaid, whose name was not given, was earlier admitted to the Riyadh Medical Complex, popularly known as Shimaisy Hospital, after being severely beaten for almost one month by her employers, a Saudi man and his wife. The doctors in hospital decided to amputate her hands and feet because of gangrene.
...
"It is clear that the woman was severely beaten after being tied up in the [courtyard of the house] under the sun for almost one month and was beaten with iron rods. Her teeth were knocked out and her lips were cut," the NSHR member pointed out.

Dr Nora called for maximum punishment of the employer and his wife.

"Cases of housemaids are the most complicated to deal with as this category does not know of a society that can help them and restore their rights," she said.


No protection for non-muslim women in the Apartheid Kingdom.

Bad news, of course for the maid, but I'm glad to see Sandmonkey back up. Am going to check him out now. Thanks for the tip!

129 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:42:20pm

For those of us who've owned shitty cars...
OMG ! Look at this UNIQUE WHIPski

...it could have been worse.

130 m  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:42:31pm

re: #118 tridroid97

I read this piece at lunch today and immediately forwarded a link to all that I know who care, or can look at the situation objectively.

That eliminated every lefty I've ever heard of.

The pictures really do tell the story.
Rock On, Michael!

I second that! :)

(Say, you don't think that "Journalism" student at the John F'n Kerry speech will get a clue from this, do you?) /
Only if we smack him upside the head with the monitor we're reading it on.

/hey Tridroid!

131 bcgirl  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:42:47pm

let's do not forget about MIchael Yon either,, both of these guys have embeded with actual US Marines and Army front lne troops, they are trusted,(as much as the marines and soldiers trust them, they say). Both of these guys and I don't know of many, if ANY have ther real story, we who read it have got to help get the word out, we are privilidged to read it first, me thinks.
re: #68 meMarc

re: #52 Wheelz


When this is all said and done, Michael Totten will win a Pulitzer prize or two.
Fantastic journalism on his part, job well done.

Pulitzer Board. (The internet is a wonderful thing.)

Lee C. Bollinger, President, Columbia University

Danielle Allen, Professor, Departments of Classics and Political Science and the Committee on Social Thought, University of Chicago

Jim Amoss, Editor, Times-Picayune, New Orleans, La.

Amanda Bennett, Executive Editor/Enterprise, Bloomberg News

Joann Byrd, Former Editor of the Editorial Page, Seattle Post-Intelligencer

Kathleen Carroll, Executive Editor and Senior Vice President, Associated Press

Thomas L. Friedman., Columnist, The New York Times

Donald E. Graham, Chairman, The Washington Post

Anders Gyllenhaal, Executive Editor, The Miami Herald

Jay T. Harris, Wallis Annenberg Chair, Director, Center for the Study of Journalism and Democracy, Annenberg School of Communication, University of Southern California

David M. Kennedy, Donald J. McLachlan Professor of History, Stanford University

Nicholas Lemann, Dean, Graduate School of Journalism, Columbia University

Ann Marie Lipinski, Senior Vice President and Editor, Chicago Tribune

Gregory L. Moore, Editor, The Denver Post

Richard Oppel, Editor, Austin American-Statesman

Mike Pride, Editor, Concord (N.H.) Monitor

Paul Tash, Editor, CEO, and Chairman, St. Petersburg Times

Sig Gissler, Administrator, Graduate School of Journalism

132 meMarc  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:43:09pm

re: #126 merav

DOZENS DIE IN SYRIAN-IRANIAN CHEMICAL WEAPONS EXPERIMENT

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Sorry if it's been posted already.

I saw it already but it's good to post things again. People come to the threads all the time. Hewitt talked about it today on the radio. Don't know if other media has covered it. Some threads get so long, it would make sense to post things twice. Which when I think about it would just make the post longer wouldn't it. Oh well, not I really have to do. Goodnight everybody.

133 m  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:43:18pm

Hey! I lost my blockquotes!
(sorry 'bout that!)

134 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:43:23pm

re: #128 bikermailman

His bloggin is a bit light lately but at least he's back. Drop a comment and make him feel welcome.

135 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:43:43pm
136 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:44:34pm

re: #126 merav

That one's making the rounds. I'm skeptical of all the Israel/Syria/Iran stories these days. It's tough to know what's really going on.

137 BenZacharia  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:44:43pm

Totten forgot the swing set count.

"Join the Marines/Army and be a crossing guard that gets shot at."

I'll have to to dig up some of my War Between the States history and see how many playgrounds Sherman built on his way to the sea, he must have other wise he was a failure.
/Patton weeps.

138 bikermailman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:45:49pm

re: #119 Thanos

re: #110 bikermailman


OT: Not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but we may be seeing another Rathergate in the making. It comes on tonight on HDNet, Mark Cuban's network, so a lot of people won't have it. I'm recording it, and having my dad watch it. He's been working with composites for twenty years on helicopters and Ospreys, so I wanted his take. The American Thinker article in the link doesn't seem to think too much of it. heh heh. Fake but accurate redeux?

You can send Dean Ing an email here, he might be interested. SF writer who loves new materials and experimental aircraft. Somewhat expert in them...

This isn't dealing with an experimental aircraft. This is Boeing's new 787 that's about to, er, roll. It will use an all composite body instead of metal. Rather found himself a disgruntled 'whistleblower' who's making a bunch of crap claims that it will kill everyone! Everyone, I tell you! Give me an address, and I'll send some info.

139 Dirk Diggler  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:46:16pm

I'm suprised there are any children left in Iraq.

I mean 2 million died because of sanctions right? And how may have died as a result of the invasion? Upwards of around 12,045,998 according to the latest highly scientific Kos poll?

140 bikermailman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:47:43pm

re: #125 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Well, Ed, if you don't understand it, then who the heck do we turn to? Besides God, that is. And He usually doesn't speak to us in as clear (and entertaining) a manner as you do.

141 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:48:01pm
142 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:48:09pm

re: #112 El matamoros

The emergence of the Shia Crescent is a "threat" promoted by Juan Cole and latched onto by many in a "pro-populatum"endorsement of Cole's scholarship.

Look at this ethnic map of the region - http://gulf2000.columbia.edu/images/maps/MidEastRe ligionCore_sm.jpg

Taken from this page at Columbia University.

The Shia Crescent requires that Anbar be ethnically cleansed as well as a good part of Syria, which is very unlikely to happen IMO.

The Cole theory has been that cleansing is not needed - that hatred for the injustices and war crimes perpetrated by the United States is enough to galvanize support for Iranian hegemony over the area, and he points to Syria as an example.

The guy is an idiot - ti is like arguing that Northern Ireland would unite to kick the British out, which it never did because the Protestants would not have survived the exit of the crown. The Sunnis of Anbar won't be joining the Mahdi Army anytime soon.

143 gooddad  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:48:16pm

HEY! there's a PayPal button. put your money to good use.

144 nikis-knight  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:49:10pm

This is such a wonderful story. I was listening to Hugh Hewitt read it on the way home, then followed along online when I got to the computer. Even Muslims, especially the only-nominally religious, cultural Muslims, are starting to turn against the unholy savagry of Al queda. Further, the longer they are in contact with American GI's, the greatest people on earth today, the more of them have the scales of Al Jazeera's slander fall from their eyes.
I have no hope that this will be universal, but there can be little doubt that there will be enough, given time, to achieve a meaningful victory in Iraq. A people could not survive, even in the squalor that rules the muslim world, if they were incapable of telling apart American generosity and Islamist rage. If America manages to maintain the will to stay until the monsters are slain.
And when that happens, the leftists will dennigrate Iraqis that have chosen freedom and the democrats will claim an equal share of the credit for the victory.

145 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:49:19pm

Totten's report is good. I can't help but feel it's a pretty narrow view, though, to tell the truth. Things can't be good across the breadth of Iraq, as just today the U.S. government has suspended all diplomatic movement outside the Green Zone.

Hopefully more of the country will come around, and soon.

146 merav  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:49:33pm

re: #132 meMarc

meMarc,

Thanks. Have a good night.

147 wetfun  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:49:46pm

Wow, great read, PayPal button, click there!

148 Thanos  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:51:41pm

re: #138 bikermailman

re: #119 Thanos


re: #110 bikermailman

OT: Not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but we may be seeing another Rathergate in the making. It comes on tonight on HDNet, Mark Cuban's network, so a lot of people won't have it. I'm recording it, and having my dad watch it. He's been working with composites for twenty years on helicopters and Ospreys, so I wanted his take. The American Thinker article in the link doesn't seem to think too much of it. heh heh. Fake but accurate redeux?

You can send Dean Ing an email here, he might be interested. SF writer who loves new materials and experimental aircraft. Somewhat expert in them...

This isn't dealing with an experimental aircraft. This is Boeing's new 787 that's about to, er, roll. It will use an all composite body instead of metal. Rather found himself a disgruntled 'whistleblower' who's making a bunch of crap claims that it will kill everyone! Everyone, I tell you! Give me an address, and I'll send some info.


I understand completely about the aircraft in question, and what the documentary will be about.

149 merav  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:52:39pm

re: #136 Killgore Trout

re: #136 Killgore Trout

re: #126 merav

That one's making the rounds. I'm skeptical of all the Israel/Syria/Iran stories these days. It's tough to know what's really going on.


Hi, Killgore.
Yeah, I guess you're right. Especially with all the world's media being controlled by the Zionists. :-)

150 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:52:47pm

Oh, fer cryin' out loud.

151 rawmuse  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:53:22pm

A truly great read, thanks for posting!

152 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:53:27pm

re: #7 meMarc

Hugh Hewitt read the whole thing on his radio show this afternoon. Told his audience to go on-line and look at the photos. Linked it at his website.

Yes, and Hugh told people to go contribute, so Michael can keep doing his great work.

153 Sponge  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:53:42pm
The Iraqis of Anbar Province turned against Al Qaeda and sided with the Americans in large part because Al Qaeda proved to be far more vicious than advertised. But it’s also because sustained contact with the American military – even in an explosively violent combat zone –convinced these Iraqis that Americans are very different people from what they had been led to believe. They finally figured out that the Americans truly want to help and are not there to oppress them or steal from them. And the Americans slowly learned how Iraqi culture works and how to blend in rather than barge in.


Take THAT obama

Take THAT hillary

Take THAT murtha

Take THAT edwards

Take THAT reid and pelosi

You ALL should apologize to EVERY SOLDIER serving in the United States Military for your BLASPHEMOUS statements and accusations.

I SO don't understand the leftist mindset...

154 zmdavid  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:54:24pm

re: #145 Cognito

Things can't be good across the breadth of Iraq, as just today the U.S. government has suspended all diplomatic movement outside the Green Zone.


Is that because of the Blackwater issue?

155 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:55:02pm

re: #154 zmdavid

re: #145 Cognito

Things can't be good across the breadth of Iraq, as just today the U.S. government has suspended all diplomatic movement outside the Green Zone.

Is that because of the Blackwater issue?

Yes.

156 bikermailman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:55:22pm

re: #134 Killgore Trout

re: #128 bikermailman

His bloggin is a bit light lately but at least he's back. Drop a comment and make him feel welcome.

Dropped him an email. Good suggestion.

157 rightwinger3  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:55:55pm

re: #145 Cognito

Totten's report is good. I can't help but feel it's a pretty narrow view, though, to tell the truth. Things can't be good across the breadth of Iraq, as just today the U.S. government has suspended all diplomatic movement outside the Green Zone.

Hopefully more of the country will come around, and soon.

Cog,

This obviously has to do with Blackwater. Marines (and Soldiers, to tell the truth) are winning in Anbar. Nothing narrow about that.

158 bikermailman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:56:41pm

re: #148 Thanos

Sorry, my bad.

159 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:57:12pm

re: #157 rightwinger3

re: #145 Cognito

Totten's report is good. I can't help but feel it's a pretty narrow view, though, to tell the truth. Things can't be good across the breadth of Iraq, as just today the U.S. government has suspended all diplomatic movement outside the Green Zone.

Hopefully more of the country will come around, and soon.

Cog,

This obviously has to do with Blackwater. Marines (and Soldiers, to tell the truth) are winning in Anbar. Nothing narrow about that.

Of course it has to do with Blackwater; that doesn't diminish the seriousness of the situation. Indeed, it only heightens it. American officials are literally unable to move about the country.

160 Thanos  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:57:45pm

re: #145 Cognito

Totten's report is good. I can't help but feel it's a pretty narrow view, though, to tell the truth. Things can't be good across the breadth of Iraq, as just today the U.S. government has suspended all diplomatic movement outside the Green Zone.

Hopefully more of the country will come around, and soon.


How perfect must it be to declare victory? Where are the goalposts moving now?

161 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:58:22pm

Time to eat da fish.
G'nite y'all.

162 Thanos  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:58:26pm

re: #158 bikermailman

re: #148 Thanos

Sorry, my bad.

Np, Dean's probably more aware of the situation than you or I am, he follows such things usually.

163 bcgirl  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:00:18pm

oh, you are right on that one!
re: #135 buzzsawmonkey

re: #104 bcgirl

How can the MSM tell when "hearts and minds" are being won, when they are deficient in both?

164 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:01:09pm

re: #160 Thanos

re: #145 Cognito

Totten's report is good. I can't help but feel it's a pretty narrow view, though, to tell the truth. Things can't be good across the breadth of Iraq, as just today the U.S. government has suspended all diplomatic movement outside the Green Zone.

Hopefully more of the country will come around, and soon.


How perfect must it be to declare victory? Where are the goalposts moving now?

I'm not sure where you're coming from, there. Iraq is far, far from perfect. It's not as though we're talking about shades of difference between 'great' and 'fantastic.'

Let's face it: The situation in Iraq is tough. Declaring otherwise only exacerbates the problem.

That said, I'm thrilled things are going well in Anbar. Nothing can take away from that. My only point is that we can't view the whole country through the prism of one city.

So: Good news in Anbar. And good news awaiting, hopefully, elsewhere.

165 Maximu§  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:01:11pm

Ive read Michael Yon's articles and they pretty much say the same thing Totten's report did and I now have a little bit of hope.

Maximu§
3/11 ACR

166 markie  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:01:12pm

Between Mike and Yon, you get a pretty good view of things there.
e-mailed my thanks to them.

167 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:03:02pm

GAZE.

168 rightwinger3  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:03:24pm

re: #159 Cognito

re: #157 rightwinger3

re: #145 Cognito

Totten's report is good. I can't help but feel it's a pretty narrow view, though, to tell the truth. Things can't be good across the breadth of Iraq, as just today the U.S. government has suspended all diplomatic movement outside the Green Zone.Hopefully more of the country will come around, and soon.

Cog,This obviously has to do with Blackwater. Marines (and Soldiers, to tell the truth) are winning in Anbar. Nothing narrow about that.

Of course it has to do with Blackwater; that doesn't diminish the seriousness of the situation. Indeed, it only heightens it. American officials are literally unable to move about the country.

This, too, will pass. Blackwater had a job to do. If you believe the story, they fucked it up. Anyway it doesn't diminish what is happening in Anbar. We've come a long way since I was there in 2004.

169 m  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:03:53pm

re: #164 Cognito

My only point is that we can't view the whole country through the prism of one city.

Tell your cronies in the msm that. (Baghdad ring a bell?)

170 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:04:45pm

re: #168 rightwinger3

This, too, will pass. Blackwater had a job to do. If you believe the story, they fucked it up. Anyway it doesn't diminish what is happening in Anbar. We've come a long way since I was there in 2004.

They did screw it up, with rigor and persistence. And you're absolutely right that it doesn't diminish what's happening in Anbar -- far from it.

171 Maximu§  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:05:04pm

re: #159 Cognito
Of course it has to do with Blackwater; that doesn't diminish the seriousness of the situation. Indeed, it only heightens it. American officials are literally unable to move about the country.


I would consider the American Army and USMC as "Officials" wouldn't you? In fact they're our best ambassadors.

Maximu§
3/11 ACR

172 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:06:15pm

re: #169 m

re: #164 Cognito

My only point is that we can't view the whole country through the prism of one city.
Tell your cronies in the msm that. (Baghdad ring a bell?)

There are people around smart enough to understand that; Iraq, really, is a patchwork of tribal lands that's exceedingly hard to survey in an accurate way. For instance, things in 'Kurdistan' are rocking along pretty well at the moment.

173 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:08:01pm

re: #171 Maximu§

re: #159 Cognito
Of course it has to do with Blackwater; that doesn't diminish the seriousness of the situation. Indeed, it only heightens it. American officials are literally unable to move about the country.


I would consider the American Army and USMC as "Officials" wouldn't you? In fact they're our best ambassadors.

Maximu§
3/11 ACR

We were talking about the suspension of any diplomatic movement outside the Green Zone. And yes, I'd say our military makes an exemplary account of itself.

174 29Victor  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:08:04pm

But the Dems are not only willing, but EAGER to return Hell to Anbar. Those families who cooperated with U.S. troops will be killed if the Dems get their way. Those kids will be tortured and murdered in front of their parents eyes and then the parents will be done away with too. And the Dems will do nothing but ignore it and feel smug about their "victory".

If you don't believe that American politician could be so uncaring and cruel go talk to a Cambodian.

175 Dirk Diggler  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:08:05pm

Cognito,

Is there anything that you don't feel compelled to shit on?

176 Armed  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:08:45pm

Fantastic report. Hit is tip jar if you can afford it.

177 Highrise  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:11:19pm

re: #166 markie

Between Mike and Yon, you get a pretty good view of things there.
e-mailed my thanks to them.

The MSM could really take note of how these two handle things. I love their work.

I usually don't have a very high opinion of the usual teleprompt reading *reporter* but these guys are truly a different class. Hands down!

178 m  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:11:24pm

re: #172 Cognito

Agreed. I just wish it was reported that way consistantly. Because the ones that aren't smart enough (kossies) think otherwise.

179 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:12:02pm

re: #175 Dirk Diggler

Cognito,

Is there anything that you don't feel compelled to shit on?

Lovely.

Like I've said multiple times, I think what's happening in Anbar is awesome. They're making it happen. It's great.

Beyond that, I think it's a mistake to extrapolate that picture to address the whole country. If you don't do that, then don't worry 'bout it.

180 rightwinger3  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:12:45pm

re: #173 Cognito

re: #171 Maximu§

re: #159 Cognito
Of course it has to do with Blackwater; that doesn't diminish the seriousness of the situation. Indeed, it only heightens it. American officials are literally unable to move about the country.


I would consider the American Army and USMC as "Officials" wouldn't you? In fact they're our best ambassadors.

Maximu§
3/11 ACR

We were talking about the suspension of any diplomatic movement outside the Green Zone. And yes, I'd say our military makes an exemplary account of itself.

Max,

I think Cognito's whole point is that our Soldiers and Marines are warfighters first and maybe "ambassadors" second.

181 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:13:32pm

If Gordon had half a brain, he'd be Cognito.

182 Thanos  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:13:56pm

Re my 127, watched the clip. It's as all suspected, agents of ZOG killing the good rabbi, then posing as Aryans in hoods to drive Jews out of Iran to Palestine.


The MSM starts from the concept that American doesn't have the will or the patience to win in Iraq, to make new allies, or to accept whatever form of government they will end up with. So therefor it failed before it began, the dictatorship was better. Over time they will be proven wrong again.

183 Mich-again  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:16:47pm

That was an excellent report. Wow. I'm not one to send out e-mails to the whole address book, but this one is a must see. And I liked the part about how the US had to disprove crazy conspiracy theories that the Iraqis had about them, especially how their body armor was really a personal air conditioner. Yeah right. They probably got that whopper from Al Jiz or Rosie O'Fatso.

And this quote cracked me up.

“We’re like the Peace Corps with muscles here,”

Peace through muscles!

184 Thanos  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:17:53pm

OT: Apple just pushed an update to Quicktime for the vulnerability, patch if you don't have autoupdate on.

185 unclassifiable  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:17:59pm

Goodness gracious we wouldn't want that story to get translated into Arabic and get transmitted to all of the other tribes and sects in Iraq!

/HIT THE MAN'S TIP JAR HARD!

186 Sponge  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:18:23pm

re: #184 Thanos

Sorry, but screw quicktime...

187 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:19:20pm

re: #183 Mich-again

My personal favorite:

“That’s when you know life is coming back to normal,” Sergeant Hicks said, “when they open a cell phone shop.”

188 Thanos  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:19:31pm

re: #186 Sponge

re: #184 Thanos

Sorry, but screw quicktime...


If you have Itunes it's a component, otherwise I would agree with you :)

189 bikermailman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:21:22pm

re: #179 Cognito

re: #175 Dirk Diggler


Cognito,

Is there anything that you don't feel compelled to shit on?


Lovely.

Like I've said multiple times, I think what's happening in Anbar is awesome. They're making it happen. It's great.

Beyond that, I think it's a mistake to extrapolate that picture to address the whole country. If you don't do that, then don't worry 'bout it.

The thing is, Baghdad and Anbar were THE two problem areas in the country. They both have largely come around for the better. To a big extent, you can extrapolate. Not 100%, of course not. But there has been more progress made in the last eight months than hardly anyone was going to believe possible before then.

190 Killian Bundy  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:21:29pm

re: #175 Dirk Diggler

Cognito,

Is there anything that you don't feel compelled to shit on?

/the power of shit compels him

191 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:22:36pm

re: #179 Cognito

re: #175 Dirk Diggler

Cognito,

Is there anything that you don't feel compelled to shit on?

Lovely.

Like I've said multiple times, I think what's happening in Anbar is awesome. They're making it happen. It's great.

Beyond that, I think it's a mistake to extrapolate that picture to address the whole country. If you don't do that, then don't worry 'bout it.

Who was doing that?

192 justadot  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:24:16pm

From the story:

“This place has made an amazing turnaround,” he [Lt. Welch] said. “Everyone knew about Ramadi. It was another Fallujah, but it was worse than Fallujah. I did not want to come here. I was supposed to have an easy deployment in Karbala. Most guys coming out here were looking forward to combat. Not me. I had already done it. If you told me a few months ago what it would be like now I wouldn’t believe it. A little while ago we went to a soccer game. Lieutenant Tierney put it together. They have sixteen soccer teams now. We bought them uniforms, balls, water for the field, everything. They had a huge opening ceremony. Hundreds of people were there. It was incredible. Just incredible. It was a real storybook turnaround. This is why we fight. This is why what we do is worth doing. This is what makes the sacrifices, like Lieutenant Hightower having metal enter his body, worthwhile.

Lieutenant Hightower was standing right next to us when Lieutenant Welch said that. He was hit with an IED a few months ago. Pieces of shrapnel tore up his leg. He nodded at what Lieutenant Welch said, agreeing that getting “blown up,” as Welch put it, was worth it.

One step at a time.

193 Da_Beerfreak  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:24:24pm

re: #69 SecretInternetDoucheBag

re: #68 meMarc

So in other words your saying he does not have a snow balls chance in hell?

I would bet on the snowball in this case.

194 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:25:40pm

re: #191 Noam Sayin'

If you don't do that, then don't worry 'bout it.

195 bikermailman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:26:02pm
196 Sponge  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:26:27pm

re: #188 Thanos

Yeah, I've avoided the whole iPoop movement...got me a Creative Zen that I can put what I want when I want on it with no charge...OR funding of that psycho Steve Jobs...

197 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:26:34pm

re: #194 Cognito

re: #191 Noam Sayin'

If you don't do that, then don't worry 'bout it.

Answer the question.

198 Sponge  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:28:10pm

re: #191 Noam Sayin'

I was about to say the whole thing. I don't think he read the entire article as that point is pretty obvious. There is still a lot of work to be done, but this is a sunflower in a huge mass of stinky shit.

199 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:28:23pm

Just noticed - the young guy selling cell phones is wearing an Arsenal jersey.

The dude is a "Gooner".

I wonder if Totten posted that for Andrew Apostolou?

200 RobCon  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:28:35pm

Thanks for posting Charles.
God bless Totten.

201 Sponge  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:28:42pm

re: #198 Sponge

re: #191 Noam Sayin'

I was about to say the whole same thing. I don't think he read the entire article as that point is pretty obvious. There is still a lot of work to be done, but this is a sunflower in a huge mass of stinky shit.

GAF...PIMF

202 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:29:06pm

re: #59 Sharmuta

re: #52 Wheelz

When this is all said and done, Michael Totten will win a Pulitzer prize or two.

Hardly. Do not look for the leftists controlling Pulitzers to legitimize independent journalism or any journalist not toting the leftist line.

Someone needs to invent a prestigious new prize for journalists that find out what the real truth is, despite the prevailing views of the mainstream.

203 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:29:33pm

re: #197 Noam Sayin'

re: #194 Cognito

re: #191 Noam Sayin'
If you don't do that, then don't worry 'bout it.
Answer the question.

I think my original post speaks for itself:

Totten's report is good. I can't help but feel it's a pretty narrow view, though, to tell the truth. Things can't be good across the breadth of Iraq, as just today the U.S. government has suspended all diplomatic movement outside the Green Zone.

Hopefully more of the country will come around, and soon.

It's a simple, two-part point: 1) I love the news out of Anbar. And, 2) I can't help but feel it's a somewhat narrow view, in light of other news from Iraq today.

It's my opinion, and you're welcome to ignore it.

204 Dirk Diggler  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:29:46pm
Lovely.

Like I've said multiple times, I think what's happening in Anbar is awesome. They're making it happen. It's great.

Beyond that, I think it's a mistake to extrapolate that picture to address the whole country. If you don't do that, then don't worry 'bout it.

It's called progress, Cognito. There's abundant evidence that the Shiite sheiks have seen the Anbar awakening and want to work with the Americans as well.

If that happens things in Iraq could quickly and dramatically change for the better.

But in Cognito's world of rank contrarianism since all of Iraq is not pacified right this second, there's no cause for hope or optimism. The Anbar awakening just a miniscule snapshot that's not in any way representative of the whole.

I suspect you formulate your opinions by going against the tide of opinions expressed on this (or any other) thread.

205 rightwinger3  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:30:06pm

re: #199 karmic_inquisitor

Just noticed - the young guy selling cell phones is wearing an Arsenal jersey.

The dude is a "Gooner".

I wonder if Totten posted that for Andrew Apostolou?

North London?

206 Thanos  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:30:27pm

Cognito -

Regarding the how perfect statement -- there were more violent attacks in at least three other Islamic countries this week than there were in Iraq, as in more body counts, number of attacks, more everything. If you accept the notion that Islamic countries tend to have fights among their tribes, and with their neighbors, then you could consider Iraq abnormally peaceful lately. How perfect must it be compared to the Islamic norm before you can declare victory? (Pakistan, Afghanistan, Algeria)

207 cbinflux  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:31:22pm
208 mattm  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:32:16pm

re: #68 meMarc

A snowball has a better chance in hell.

And what kind of "committee" is this:

Danielle Allen, Professor, Departments of Classics and Political Science and the Committee on Social Thought, University of Chicago

209 Bob's Kid  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:34:02pm

re: #3 Cattt

This is excellent! I am now smiling.

Mr. Totten is amazing.

Yep. The truth doesn't matter much if a) nobody knows it and b) nobody believes it.

Totten, thy name is Cassandra.

210 cbinflux  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:35:18pm

re: #167 MandyManners

Who you be gazing?!

211 Pro-Bush Canuck  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:36:18pm

re: #207 cbinflux

Belgium? I thought he was dead.

And what on earth does "OTBWGARA" stand for?

212 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:36:20pm

re: #204 Dirk Diggler

But in Cognito's world of rank contrarianism since all of Iraq is not pacified right this second, there's no cause for hope or optimism.

Now you're just making things up. I say Anbar is a shining and hopeful example.

213 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:36:27pm
214 Racer X  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:36:56pm

Dammit people! Get with the program.

Iraq is a quagmire. The surge is a failure (no rainbows, ponies, or fields of flowers anywhere).

There are over a billion dead Iraqi civilians!

The Totten report is clearly a fake put out by Bush Chimpy McHaliburton.

There is no GOOD news coming from Iraq, and never will be; it is all America's fault.

/we stink!

215 Pro-Bush Canuck  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:37:10pm

re: #210 cbinflux

re: #167 MandyManners

Who you be gazing?!

Hint: It starts with "Cog" and ends with "nito"

216 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:37:41pm

re: #215 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #210 cbinflux

re: #167 MandyManners

Who you be gazing?!

Hint: It starts with "Cog" and ends with "nito"

Ah. The humanity. The humanity.

217 Bob's Kid  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:38:22pm

re: #54 Golem Akbar

re: #52 Wheelz

When this is all said and done, Michael Totten will win a Pulitzer prize or two.
Fantastic journalism on his part, job well done.
Maybe just maybe other journalists will start picking up on his message, too. After all, the world has got to be tired of the same ole negative same ole.

Oh, if Hillary gets the nod we'll hear a lot more like this, guaranteed.

218 Racer X  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:38:30pm

re: #212 Cognito

re: #204 Dirk Diggler

But in Cognito's world of rank contrarianism since all of Iraq is not pacified right this second, there's no cause for hope or optimism.
Now you're just making things up. I say Anbar is a shining and hopeful example.

You have a funny way of saying that.

219 zmdavid  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:38:44pm

re: #213 buzzsawmonkey

re: #202 NomadOfNorad


Someone needs to invent a prestigious new prize for journalists that find out what the real truth is, despite the prevailing views of the mainstream.

So what should the name of the alternative to the Bullshitzer be?


The Cognito Prize

220 Highrise  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:39:29pm

re: #218 Racer X


When I took speech and debate, we learned that if the person made no sense, it usually was their own fault for not communicating well. In his world, it's everyone else's wrong interpretation of what he says.

/tired of the endless circles

221 cbinflux  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:40:32pm

Arabic media projecting wrong image of Islam

Severely criticising the Arabic-language media, Malik said the aspect of forgiveness in Islam was ignored entirely by the media. He blamed Arabic-language TV channels for dividing Muslims along sectarian lines by harping too much on Shia-Sunni strife, for instance.

222 rappmandu  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:40:56pm

lgf: anti-idiotarian awakening

223 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:41:05pm

re: #203 Cognito

re: #197 Noam Sayin'

re: #194 Cognito

re: #191 Noam Sayin'

If you don't do that, then don't worry 'bout it.

Answer the question.

I think my original post speaks for itself:

Totten's report is good. I can't help but feel it's a pretty narrow view, though, to tell the truth. Things can't be good across the breadth of Iraq, as just today the U.S. government has suspended all diplomatic movement outside the Green Zone.

Hopefully more of the country will come around, and soon.

It's a simple, two-part point: 1) I love the news out of Anbar. And, 2) I can't help but feel it's a somewhat narrow view, in light of other news from Iraq today.

It's my opinion, and you're welcome to ignore it.

Don't be condescending with me.

What your post said to me and others was: 1) this is really great news, and, 2) it's still crappy elsewhere - don't forget that. The underlying implication, however well camouflaged, is still the negative bullshit peddled in the MSM day in and day out.

Nothing in Totten's report said anything to the contrary - even more so, he admits several times over that elsewhere in Iraq it indeed sucks, and we have no guarantees that Anbar will not turn back into a shithole as well.

You normally give pretty good arguments here, and I for one appreciate that. I also appreciate how you hang in and take what the others give you. But your comment served no other purpose than to shit on a great piece of reporting and some good news in a part of Iraq that hasn't seen it in four years. It was also very telling of a formula that could work across Iraq.

224 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:41:43pm

re: #13 m

“As of July 30,” Major Peters said in early August, “we’ve have 81 days in the city with zero attacks since March 31.”

Things you won't hear in the msm for $100 Alex.

(Emphasis mine)

Another good candidate for the rotating title bin.

225 Mich-again  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:41:59pm

re: #202 NomadOfNorad

re: #59 Sharmuta

re: #52 Wheelz

When this is all said and done, Michael Totten will win a Pulitzer prize or two.

Hardly. Do not look for the leftists controlling Pulitzers to legitimize independent journalism or any journalist not toting the leftist line.

Someone needs to invent a prestigious new prize for journalists that find out what the real truth is, despite the prevailing views of the mainstream.


That is so true. The Pulitzer (named for a guy who was a hopeless lefty) honors journalism that embodies hopeless leftyism. I'd like to see a Pyle Award for embedded journalists covering the military and the Zombie Award for investigative bloggers. Thats what I would name them anyhow.

226 realwest  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:42:06pm

re: #81 MandyManners Hey Mandy - how's about sending this piece to him and if he's honest as hell, he'll read it and maybe come to the right conclussions, ya know?
It's worth a shot - if I knew anyone similarly placed I'd write to him. Michael J. Totten is what journalism USED to be.

227 cbinflux  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:42:10pm

More bad news for Catholics

The Archdiosese just agreed to another huge payout, $247m...

228 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:42:19pm

re: #218 Racer X

re: #212 Cognito

re: #204 Dirk Diggler
But in Cognito's world of rank contrarianism since all of Iraq is not pacified right this second, there's no cause for hope or optimism.
Now you're just making things up. I say Anbar is a shining and hopeful example.
You have a funny way of saying that.

I guess

Totten's report is good.


And

I'm thrilled things are going well in Anbar. Nothing can take away from that.

And

...it doesn't diminish what's happening in Anbar -- far from it.


And

I think what's happening in Anbar is awesome. They're making it happen. It's great.

were all unclear.

There's room for more than one point at a time. And here we find two: 1) Anbar's great, and 2) the rest of Iraq could stand to look a little more Anbarish.

229 Pro-Bush Canuck  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:42:49pm

re: #223 Noam Sayin'

But your comment served no other purpose than to shit on a great piece of reporting

Jealousy is most unbecoming in a journalist.

230 swamprat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:43:45pm

re: #216 Cognito
different entity altogether

231 Pro-Bush Canuck  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:43:56pm

re: #227 cbinflux

Why bad news? The Church needs to rid itself of homosexual pederasts and the damage they have wrought over the centuries. These payments serve as a catharsis.

232 Thanos  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:44:19pm

re: #225 Mich-again

re: #202 NomadOfNorad


re: #59 Sharmuta

re: #52 Wheelz

When this is all said and done, Michael Totten will win a Pulitzer prize or two.

Hardly. Do not look for the leftists controlling Pulitzers to legitimize independent journalism or any journalist not toting the leftist line.

Someone needs to invent a prestigious new prize for journalists that find out what the real truth is, despite the prevailing views of the mainstream.

That is so true. The Pulitzer (named for a guy who was a hopeless lefty) honors journalism that embodies hopeless leftyism. I'd like to see a Pyle Award for embedded journalists covering the military and the Zombie Award for investigative bloggers. Thats what I would name them anyhow.

That's really an excellent idea. A Zombie, or an Ernie -- what every blogger yearns for...

233 cbinflux  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:44:34pm

re: #204 Dirk Diggler

Who in the world pegged the Cogster as a Kontrarian?!

234 swamprat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:45:09pm

re: #230 swamprat

re: #216 Cognito
different entity altogether



I think "humanity" got banned.

235 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:45:10pm

re: #223 Noam Sayin'

What your post said to me and others was: 1) this is really great news, and, 2) it's still crappy elsewhere - don't forget that.

I'd say that's true.

The underlying implication, however well camouflaged, is still the negative bullshit peddled in the MSM day in and day out.

I don't put enough thought into these comments to 'camouflage' anything. They am what they am.

Nothing in Totten's report said anything to the contrary - even more so, he admits several times over that elsewhere in Iraq it indeed sucks, and we have no guarantees that Anbar will not turn back into a shithole as well.

I didn't say anything otherwise.

236 lowandslow  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:45:18pm

re: #226 realwest

Hey realwest, what are doing up so late?

237 cbinflux  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:45:49pm

re: #227 cbinflux

More bad news for Catholics

The Archdiosese just agreed to another huge payout, $247m...

Notre Dame season ticket holders.

HT Jay Leno.

238 Salem  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:46:18pm

DON'T TASE ME, BRO!

239 rappmandu  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:47:06pm

The Charles Johnson Award

/Duh!

240 carridine  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:47:28pm

re: #164 Cognito

My only point is that we can't view the whole country through the prism of one city.

Well, that seems like a strawman, indeed, Cog. For the last two year, at least, readers here (at least) have trusted Mark Steyn's (and other's) observations that 85% of Iraq IS, WAS and HAS BEEN pacified.

The 'one city' problem exemplified by Anbar/Ramadi was that they were the worst of the 15% residuum, hence Totten (and posters here) are NOT viewing all of Iraq through 'the prism of one city', rather we're acknowledging the victory of a final city AFTER the pacification of virtually all other cities in Iraq.

Anbar was the worst. Now, for a while at least, it has grown and changed in qualitatively good ways.

241 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:48:22pm

re: #229 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #223 Noam Sayin'

But your comment served no other purpose than to shit on a great piece of reporting
Jealousy is most unbecoming in a journalist.

That's an interesting take. I guess. But then again, I've said his report is good.

I've been talking about Iraq. Not Totten.

242 Syrah  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:48:56pm

re: #232 Thanos

re: #225 Mich-again

re: #202 NomadOfNorad


re: #59 Sharmuta


re: #52 Wheelz

When this is all said and done, Michael Totten will win a Pulitzer prize or two.


Hardly. Do not look for the leftists controlling Pulitzers to legitimize independent journalism or any journalist not toting the leftist line.


Someone needs to invent a prestigious new prize for journalists that find out what the real truth is, despite the prevailing views of the mainstream.


That is so true. The Pulitzer (named for a guy who was a hopeless lefty) honors journalism that embodies hopeless leftyism. I'd like to see a Pyle Award for embedded journalists covering the military and the Zombie Award for investigative bloggers. Thats what I would name them anyhow.

That's really an excellent idea. A Zombie, or an Ernie -- what every blogger yearns for...

Sounds like a job for the pajamasmedia group.

243 Mich-again  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:49:20pm

re: #232 Thanos

A Zombie, or an Ernie -- what every blogger yearns for...

I like your idea of "The Ernie" more than "The Pyle". That conjures up an image of Gomer getting his arse chewed out by Sergeant Carter.

244 justadot  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:49:21pm

re: #108 Thanos

After checking the whaling charts, I think you're right. It's getting bolder now.

245 Thanos  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:49:55pm

Time for me to hit the hay, I'll leave you with a tune...

246 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:50:13pm
247 cbinflux  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:51:05pm

re: #246 song_and_dance_man

Look like I logged on in time for front row seats.


Be nice, especially to our LDS neighbors...

248 ChenZhen  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:51:11pm

re: #117 Pro-Bush Canuck

One look at the people in Totten's essay is enough to remind us that not every person who happened to be born into Islam is our enemy.

Agreed.

As if someone needed to be reminded...

Anyway, I'm guessing that this success didn't involve flushing Korans in the toilet and/or making fun of their aversion to pork. Just guessing...

249 Racer X  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:51:22pm

The Bush administration should tout successes like these in the face of those who are so determined to surrender and accept defeat.

Unfortunately, if that were to happen, al-Queda would surely escalate the violence inflicted upon innocent victims as retaliation.

So here we are, in quiet celebration.

250 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:51:42pm

re: #240 carridine

re: #164 Cognito

My only point is that we can't view the whole country through the prism of one city.
Well, that seems like a strawman, indeed, Cog. For the last two year, at least, readers here (at least) have trusted Mark Steyn's (and other's) observations that 85% of Iraq IS, WAS and HAS BEEN pacified.

The 'one city' problem exemplified by Anbar/Ramadi was that they were the worst of the 15% residuum, hence Totten (and posters here) are NOT viewing all of Iraq through 'the prism of one city', rather we're acknowledging the victory of a final city AFTER the pacification of virtually all other cities in Iraq.

Anbar was the worst. Now, for a while at least, it has grown and changed in qualitatively good ways.

The problem is, Carradine, that things are still incredibly difficult in Iraq. While the news from Anbar is great -- great -- I have a feeling you're doing the very thing I mentioned originally. Although maybe I've misunderstood.

Regardless, please note the original post, about diplomatic movement beyond the Green Zone. That's factual. Not filtered through any form of media, but a direct action by the government.

251 Mich-again  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:51:47pm

re: #239 rappmandu

The Charles Johnson Award

/Duh!

For Lifetime Achievement..

252 Salem  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:52:41pm

I wouldn't tase my bro. But then my bro isn't a flaming imbecile. And he's got guns.

253 cbinflux  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:53:26pm

248

CZ sur tol u rubes dinnit he?! Huh?

254 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:54:34pm

re: #235 Cognito

re: #223 Noam Sayin'

What your post said to me and others was: 1) this is really great news, and, 2) it's still crappy elsewhere - don't forget that.

I'd say that's true.

The underlying implication, however well camouflaged, is still the negative bullshit peddled in the MSM day in and day out.

I don't put enough thought into these comments to 'camouflage' anything. They am what they am.

Nothing in Totten's report said anything to the contrary - even more so, he admits several times over that elsewhere in Iraq it indeed sucks, and we have no guarantees that Anbar will not turn back into a shithole as well.


I didn't say anything otherwise.

I didn't say you did. What you said was,

I can't help but feel it's a pretty narrow view, though, to tell the truth.

Now, when I asked you,


Who was doing that?

I was trying to figure out your motivation for shitting on Totten's report.

255 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:54:56pm

re: #250 Cognito

Carridine, apologies for the misspelled name.

256 bikermailman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:57:48pm

Hey Chen: I'd seen a post over on HA earlier, and it looked like your writing, but it was signed with a nick something to the effect of 'CZ452' (don't quote me on exactly that). Was that you, or someone else?

257 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 8:59:08pm

re: #254 Noam Sayin'

My point wasn't as complex, I think, as you're seeing it.

Let's say a reporter went into the worst neighborhood in New York City and returned with a heartwarming story about a half-way house that's doing wonderful work.

I'd likely say, great work at that half-way house. Not representative of the rest of the neighborhood, but still great work.

The converse is true of the rest of the media. I think they focus on the very

worst

incidents in Iraq without reporting the rest.

It's just my opinion. Again, feel free to ignore.

258 Salem  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:00:13pm

What is this, the Whittling Hour? Torpid Tuesday...

259 carridine  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:00:46pm
"The problem is, Carridine, that things are still incredibly difficult in Iraq. While the news from Anbar is great -- great -- I have a feeling you're doing the very thing I mentioned originally. Although maybe I've misunderstood.

Regardless, please note the original post, about diplomatic movement beyond the Green Zone. That's factual. Not filtered through any form of media, but a direct action by the government."

I understand and agree with that, while stating that such warnings are often superfluous and bear little relation to the actual prevailing peaceful reality in effect nearly every day.

Perhaps if we look at and define our terms ("...things in Iraq suck...") we might better understand each other. I wanted to point out that most of Iraq is and has been relatively pacified for years now, and seeing Anbar and Ramadi (Sunni holdouts) come into this state, with friendship and respect and sacrifice bearing their fruits, is welcome indeed, Cognito.

260 Mich-again  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:01:04pm

re: #248 ChenZhen

Anyway, I'm guessing that this success didn't involve flushing Korans in the toilet and/or making fun of their aversion to pork. Just guessing...

Good point. We win this struggle by separating the radical Muslims from the others, not by pushing them together. Sun Tzu was right.

261 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:01:10pm
262 ChenZhen  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:01:18pm

re: #256 bikermailman

Hey Chen: I'd seen a post over on HA earlier, and it looked like your writing, but it was signed with a nick something to the effect of 'CZ452' (don't quote me on exactly that). Was that you, or someone else?

I don't have an account at hot air, and if I did, it'd be the same nic. On occasion, however, you may see a trackback from my blog show up there (although not so much lately).

263 realwest  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:01:26pm

re: #236 lowandslow Hello my friend! Well it's really Charles' fault. He puts up as compelling a piece of genuine journalism as I've read in I don't know how long and I hadda come see and make sure folks appreciate Totten's reporting AND the effin' danger Totten's in every damn day.
And not one crappy MSM will pick up and report this, nor hire or otherwise pay him for his absolutley outstanding work. Hell, they won't even report what he says.
Anyway, I be off to bed soon - took med's a little late, but not late enough to stay up much longer.
Thanks for asking though! How are you doing my friend - did you read Totten's piece all the way through and did it give you goosebumps?

264 cbinflux  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:01:41pm

re: #258 Salem

Dunno 'bout the other rubes, but I jobbed mysef with a fork...

265 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:03:03pm

re: #259 carridine

"The problem is, Carridine, that things are still incredibly difficult in Iraq. While the news from Anbar is great -- great -- I have a feeling you're doing the very thing I mentioned originally. Although maybe I've misunderstood.Regardless, please note the original post, about diplomatic movement beyond the Green Zone. That's factual. Not filtered through any form of media, but a direct action by the government."
I understand and agree with that, while stating that such warnings are often superfluous and bear little relation to the actual prevailing peaceful reality in effect nearly every day.

Perhaps if we look at and define our terms ("...things in Iraq suck...") we might better understand each other. I wanted to point out that most of Iraq is and has been relatively pacified for years now, and seeing Anbar and Ramadi (Sunni holdouts) come into this state, with friendship and respect and sacrifice bearing their fruits, is welcome indeed, Cognito.

Yes, of course. Honestly I'm not even sure what we're disagreeing on, here. Are we?

266 cbinflux  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:03:14pm

re: #262 ChenZhen
Have they figured you out, too?

267 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:03:37pm

** Bedtime **


Models still suggest a cat 1 hurricane hits New Orleans on Saturday

Our geologist is going to NOLA this weekend for a "hash". Like a mini-marathon, followed by drinking. Apparently a close knit community of people athletic enough to run, but not so uptight as to not kill a few beers. He went to Thailand last year for the big 'hash' convention, and is planning to go to Perth, WA (where I have been drunk) next year. The hash has nothing to do with cannabis, best I can tell. What fun a partial marathon in 80 km winds and a driving rain must be.


LSU homegame as well, afternoon game which limits drinking, but it is nationally televised on CBS, and the Old Ball Coach will be there. SEC football in outer bands of a hurricane. Good times.

268 carridine  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:04:01pm

re: #257 Cognito

Exactly! This logical fallacy is called, "Unrepresentative Sampling"

One goes to a beach of black, volcanic sand, searches for a golden silica grain, and writes a glowing report about it. Unrepresentative.

Which Totten also addressed in his comments about ski-masked, RPG-toting monsters and children of the future!

269 bikermailman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:05:41pm

re: #262 ChenZhen

re: #256 bikermailman


Hey Chen: I'd seen a post over on HA earlier, and it looked like your writing, but it was signed with a nick something to the effect of 'CZ452' (don't quote me on exactly that). Was that you, or someone else?

I don't have an account at hot air, and if I did, it'd be the same nic. On occasion, however, you may see a trackback from my blog show up there (although not so much lately).

That's why we were wondering. The 'CZ' in the nick, and the writing were similar, but figured you would use your normal nick. You may have an admirer...or a stalker...lol Hope it's the former, no joking. I don't wish a stalker on anyone.

270 Mich-again  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:05:46pm

re: #267 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

SEC football in outer bands of a hurricane. Good times.

LOL! As opposed to Big East football with a Marching band of Hurricanes.

271 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:06:47pm

re: #261 Noam Sayin'

re: #257 Cognito

Answer the question!

I did: I've not said anyone was.

It was, as I've said too many times now, just my opinion. Just my observation. Just my thought. It doesn't have to be some sort of witty (or not-so-) rebuttal of another commenter's point.

Just a thought. Feel free -- again -- to ignore it.

272 DesertSage  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:08:15pm

re: #261 Noam Sayin'

Noam!

Hey buddy, can you do me a favor? I need a good workout video. Actually I only need the music but I usually just grab something off you tube and play it while I'm doing sit-ups and push-ups.
Can you find me something up tempo and motivating, about 6 to 8 minutes long?
I trust your taste in music.

273 carridine  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:08:29pm

re: #265 Cognito

re: #259 carridine

"The problem is, Carridine, that things are still incredibly difficult in Iraq. While the news from Anbar is great -- great -- I have a feeling you're doing the very thing I mentioned originally. Although maybe I've misunderstood.Regardless, please note the original post, about diplomatic movement beyond the Green Zone. That's factual. Not filtered through any form of media, but a direct action by the government."

I understand and agree with that, while stating that such warnings are often superfluous and bear little relation to the actual prevailing peaceful reality in effect nearly every day. Perhaps if we look at and define our terms ("...things in Iraq suck...") we might better understand each other. I wanted to point out that most of Iraq is and has been relatively pacified for years now, and seeing Anbar and Ramadi (Sunni holdouts) come into this state, with friendship and respect and sacrifice bearing their fruits, is welcome indeed, Cognito.

Yes, of course. Honestly I'm not even sure what we're disagreeing on, here. Are we?

No, unless its the "85% of Iraq pacified" fact... but that being said, Cognito, infrastructure and heat and garbage and other problems could make life 'still incredibly difficult in Iraq...', couldn't they?

Seek first to understand, (I tell myself), THEN to be understood. Mark Steyn drove around for a month outside the Sunni Triangle, reporting that it was safe and quiet... life sucked, but it was a violent sucking reality...

274 cbinflux  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:08:47pm

Se hablo Savage Nation?

275 cosmo  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:10:21pm

re: #129 Killgore Trout

For those of us who've owned shitty cars...
OMG ! Look at this UNIQUE WHIPski

...it could have been worse.

I used to see cars like that all the time near the Home Depot in Pomona, California. There were usually four guys in them.

...is that an Alfa 33? or a late model Lada?

276 carridine  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:10:44pm

"re: #273 carridine

life sucked, but it was NOT a violent sucking reality...

Correction, correction... PIMF indeed

277 lowandslow  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:11:32pm

re: #263 realwest
Actually I'm fighting a case of pneumonia right now, starting to breath a little better today.
Of course I read Totten. If it wasn't for guys like him and Yon I'd be stuck with the MSM version of events, no one wants that.

re: #42 lowandslow

I just got done reading Tottens piece, click LGF and here it is again.
Take the half hour or so and read it all Lizards. This is the kind of quality reporting that all the MSM should be doing.

278 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:11:54pm

re: #273 carridine

Cognito, infrastructure and heat and garbage and other problems could make life 'still incredibly difficult in Iraq...', couldn't they?

Can't tell if you're being sarcasting. It's not for fear of infrastructure and heat and garbage that our officials are unable to leave the Green Zone.

To say otherwise is to be unrealistic, I think. I'm a realist.

279 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:12:06pm

I was just thinking, since I saw Carridine here, about whether there is hope for a peaceful transformation in Islam.

Don't think so with the Islam most often practiced by mainline Shia and Sunni, based in Iran and Saudi.


But avoiding the intricacies of theology, the Baha'ai have Islamic origins, and reject violence, if I'm not mistaken, and near my house is a masjid, Baitus Samee, of the Ahmadiyya branch of Islam, outlawed in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, who believe the Mahdi already came, and told them that violent jihad against the kuffar wasn't permitted anymore.

Maybe a pipe dream, but it'd be nice to think of an eventual settlement of the world's Muslim problem that didn't involved bottled sunshine.

280 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:12:51pm

re: #271 Cognito

re: #261 Noam Sayin'

re: #257 Cognito

Answer the question!

I did: I've not said anyone was.

It was, as I've said too many times now, just my opinion. Just my observation. Just my thought. It doesn't have to be some sort of witty (or not-so-) rebuttal of another commenter's point.

Just a thought. Feel free -- again -- to ignore it.

I find your answers - this time - disingenuous.

Like I've said multiple times, I think what's happening in Anbar is awesome. They're making it happen. It's great.

Beyond that, I think it's a mistake to extrapolate that picture to address the whole country.

However, the next time you make an argument with which I agree and others jump you for it, I'm going to post in your defense - just to show you this was not about dogpiling on Cogs.

281 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:13:29pm

re: #280 Noam Sayin'

Fair enough. And maybe I've overreached.

282 swamprat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:13:31pm

re: #279 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet...me2

283 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:13:38pm
284 Salem  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:14:00pm

Oh, I misspelled "taze". Stoner boner.

That was some funny shit.

285 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:15:30pm
286 stevieray  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:16:08pm

re: #211 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #207 cbinflux

Belgium? I thought he was dead.

And what on earth does "OTBWGARA" stand for?

The heck with Cognito... this is the question that should be answered!

287 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:16:15pm

re: #272 DesertSage

re: #261 Noam Sayin'

Noam!

Hey buddy, can you do me a favor? I need a good workout video. Actually I only need the music but I usually just grab something off you tube and play it while I'm doing sit-ups and push-ups.
Can you find me something up tempo and motivating, about 6 to 8 minutes long?
I trust your taste in music.

This one takes a while to get going - but then it goes for about 10 minutes.

And then there's always something like this that gets going right out of the gate.

288 DesertSage  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:16:15pm

What's all this talk about "bones" and "boners"?

289 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:16:39pm

re: #271 Cognito

Just a thought. Feel free -- again -- to ignore it.

Your thoughts are more than ignorable. I nailed you within my first few days on LGF- you are Disingenuousness personified.

290 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:17:10pm
291 ChenZhen  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:19:27pm

re: #269 bikermailman

Probably just a small coincidence.

292 realwest  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:20:20pm

re: #277 lowandslow I assume you're taking anti-biotics for that? I've had it once in my life and I swear, never ever fucking again!
Hope you get over it soon!

293 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:20:22pm

re: #289 Sharmuta

re: #271 Cognito

Just a thought. Feel free -- again -- to ignore it.
Your thoughts are more than ignorable. I nailed you within my first few days on LGF- you are Disingenuousness personified.

Feel free, by all means.

294 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:21:17pm

re: #293 Cognito

Please- pass me my smelling salts first.

295 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:21:41pm
296 Salem  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:22:05pm

Stoner Boner.

Now that's one funny term.

Thanks! It's up for grabs.

-Wait, strike that!

-Wait, don't strike that!

Never mind...

297 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:22:43pm

re: #213 buzzsawmonkey

re: #202 NomadOfNorad

Someone needs to invent a prestigious new prize for journalists that find out what the real truth is, despite the prevailing views of the mainstream.

So what should the name of the alternative to the Bullshitzer be?

The idea would be to name the prize after, say, a famous and much-respected Righty commentator and fact-finder. Someone who is so renowned for the near-infallibility of his predictions, and who has been proved correct over and over and over again, over a period of many years, that everyone respects him as a matter of course.

298 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:22:45pm
299 cbinflux  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:22:55pm

re: #286 stevieray

Belgium, the country, their awesome beers... to be sold to the highest bidder. The HORROR!

OT (but at 207) who gives a rat's ass.

300 lowandslow  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:23:38pm

re: #292 realwest

They gave me some anti-biotics but said it was viral and it was just going to take a little time. I'll be alright.
Never got a chance to gloat after the Packer/Giants game. Did you watch it?

301 Salem  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:23:49pm

Enough of my silliness... Ciao! And TAZE sKERRY!

302 Corona  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:23:54pm

Friggin great photoblog piece. The kids were adorable. I hope they eventually know true freedom over there.

303 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:25:01pm

re: #294 Sharmuta

re: #293 Cognito

Please- pass me my smelling salts first.

You're taking swipes at me, and that's fine. I'll be more interested, though, when you comment on substance.

You haven't disputed, for instance, that American diplomats are unable to leave the Green Zone. I say that's a problem, and I'll celebrate the good news from Anbar -- the great news, actually -- but I'm also willing to acknowledge some profound problems in Iraq.

304 poteen  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:25:55pm

re: #268 carridine

re: #257 Cognito

Exactly! This logical fallacy is called, "Unrepresentative Sampling"

One goes to a beach of black, volcanic sand, searches for a golden silica grain, and writes a glowing report about it. Unrepresentative.

Which Totten also addressed in his comments about ski-masked, RPG-toting monsters and children of the future!



I agree
This report as well as all of Michael Yon's dispatches show that our guys are making incredible progress rooting out the bad guys/ winning over the locals. but as Totten commented and Yon notes in every report(and I read them all) they can't be entirely certain who the bad guys are.
Tribal alliances change. The American tribe is carrying the day but it is not yet victory.

305 pat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:25:57pm

Why don't we all lay off Cog. I find his comments to be percipient.

306 DesertSage  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:26:00pm

re: #287 Noam Sayin'

Thanks Noam, I just rattled off 100 sit-ups to YYZ. I'll try La Villa Strangiato for my next ste.

307 THX-42  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:26:19pm

If anything, Totten has significantly UNDERSTATED the degree to which our military forces have contributed to the resulting stability in Ramadi/Anbar. I say this as a compliment because it is a sign of his objective, unbiased reporting.

Those commenters on his blog who repeatedly mentioned the meme that it's the local Iraqis and not the American forces who are primarily responsible for their newfound safety simply do not know what they are talking about. I do. I am a refugee who emigrated from a country that was savagely attacked by communist forces and supported later by local sympathizers.

The initial efforts by local patriots to repel the invaders and to deal with their well-armed sympathizers were brutally squashed. We simply weren't armed well enough, nor organized well enough, to do much more than conduct occasional skirmishes, most ending with dead and wounded on our side, and worse, reprisals for our families.

I can see in the faces of these Iraqis the relief and gratefulness for the eventual dominant support of US military forces that we ourselves finally saw. If you haven't personally experienced it, you have no idea what it means.

Worse yet, some who would prefer NOT to have you understand it, have the opportunity to deceitfully misrepresent what has taken place and who was primarily responsible for it. Yes, Iraqi self defense was crucially important, but make no mistake about who made it really possible: the United States military.

God bless America. Again.

308 swamprat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:26:54pm

re: #297 NomadOfNorad

re: #213 buzzsawmonkey


re: #202 NomadOfNorad

Someone needs to invent a prestigious new prize for journalists that find out what the real truth is, despite the prevailing views of the mainstream.

So what should the name of the alternative to the Bullshitzer be?

The idea would be to name the prize after, say, a famous and much-respected Righty commentator and fact-finder. Someone who is so renowned for the near-infallibility of his predictions, and who has been proved correct over and over and over again, over a period of many years, that everyone respects him as a matter of course.


Oh c'mon! The "Limbaugh"?

309 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:26:55pm
310 lowandslow  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:27:03pm

re: #302 Corona

Friggin great photoblog piece. The kids were adorable. I hope they eventually know true freedom over there.


When I see pictures of Iraqi children all I can think of is thank god they didn't have to grow up under a Hussein regime and that these children know first hand the U.S. military isn't the enemy.

311 bikermailman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:27:18pm

re: #299 cbinflux

re: #286 stevieray

Belgium, the country, their awesome beers... to be sold to the highest bidder. The HORROR!

OT (but at 207) who gives a rat's ass.

Go read BrusselsJournal.com and EUReferendum.com once in a while. You'll see that Brussels sold Belgium, and all of Europe out some time ago. For that matter, ask Fjordman next time he's on here.

312 Highrise  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:27:46pm

re: #303 Cognito

I'll be more interested, though, when you comment on substance.


So will we..and you will do this when?

Every other thread you post in, degenerates into this.

313 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:27:59pm

re: #305 pat

Why don't we all lay off Cog. I find his comments to be percipient.

Ha. Don't be too sure. I had to look up 'percipient.'

314 cbinflux  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:29:05pm

re: #305 pat

Why don't we all lay off Cog. I find his comments to be percipient.

18 years at the National Enquirer; you recognized his work?

/

315 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:30:10pm

re: #309 song_and_dance_man

I agree with that. Much of the time when I play devil's advocate here because it's a more efficient way to learn.

316 goodbye_natalie  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:30:31pm

re: #313 Cognito

I had to admit I didn't perceive percipient either. Straight to Webster. I obviously need to get off the computer and get out more.

317 DesertSage  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:30:41pm

re: #295 Noam Sayin'

re: #272 DesertSage

I'm willing to bet you could get those situps and pushups done in 4:32.

Oh no...Ace Of Spades! I do use that one.
Actually, I use the one with puppets.

318 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:31:01pm
319 pat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:31:15pm

Belgium is expected by many EU commentators to be the first Western Muslim country. Not only are it's citizens in total disarray because of language, they have no weapons or patriotism. it is said that there are not citizens in Belgium that would not sell there country out for the price of their house.

320 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:31:35pm
321 pat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:31:58pm

re: #314 cbinflux

Love his work. LOL

322 cbinflux  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:32:23pm

re: #319 pat

Belgium is expected by many EU commentators to be the first Western Muslim country. Not only are it's citizens in total disarray because of language, they have no weapons or patriotism. it is said that there are not citizens in Belgium that would not sell there country out for the price of their house.

Dmaned Realtors!

323 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:32:27pm
“All the tribes agreed to fight al Qaeda until the last child in Anbar,” the Sheikh’s brother Ahmed told a Reuters reporter.

This was far too long in coming, but now that it's come to pass may they have all the support in the world to succeed. This will not happen, however, under any democrat administration- or he of two first names.

324 U.S. 395  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:32:50pm
re: #110 bikermailman
This isn't dealing with an experimental aircraft. This is Boeing's new 787 that's about to, er, roll. It will use an all composite body instead of metal. Rather found himself a disgruntled 'whistleblower' who's making a bunch of crap claims that it will kill everyone! Everyone, I tell you! Give me an address, and I'll send some info.

(OT)

One thing has bothered me from the start about the 787. I read last year that they intend to significantly increase the humidity, so the passengers will be more comfortable. The carbon-fiber fuselage allows this, as it won't corrode like the aluminum.

My question has been, what happens after a few years when all that humidity settles into the computerized fly-by-wire stuff that actually keeps the plane in the air? Current airliners experience regular dry-out periods during flight. The 787 won't.

This worries me. Put an old stereo out in a humid garage for a few years and then see how it plays when you plug it in.

325 Highrise  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:32:51pm

re: #315 Cognito

re: #309 song_and_dance_man

I agree with that. Much of the time when I play devil's advocate here because it's a more efficient way to learn.

I'd call that trolling...

326 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:33:01pm

re: #315 Cognito

re: #309 song_and_dance_man

I agree with that. Much of the time when I play devil's advocate here because it's a more efficient way to learn.

Trolling, in other words people.

327 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:33:02pm

re: #319 pat

Belgium is expected by many EU commentators to be the first Western Muslim country.

That can't be good for the chocolate. Or the fries. Or the beer.

328 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:33:39pm
329 poteen  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:33:46pm

re: #299 cbinflux

re: #286 stevieray

Belgium, the country, their awesome beers... to be sold to the highest bidder. The HORROR!

OT (but at 207) who gives a rat's ass.

I dont care as long as I can bid on the Trappiste Monastery.

The Sacramental beer will ALL be MINE!

330 pat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:33:57pm

re: #322 cbinflux

Buy short

331 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:33:57pm

re: #327 Cognito

Are you going to post on topic- with substance? At all?

332 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:34:11pm
333 stevieray  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:34:27pm

re: #299 cbinflux

Ah! Thanks for the explanation.

334 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:34:58pm

re: #326 Sharmuta

re: #315 Cognito

re: #309 song_and_dance_man

I agree with that. Much of the time when I play devil's advocate here because it's a more efficient way to learn.

Trolling, in other words people.

No. I didn't say, "Much of the time when I disagree..." I said "play devil's advocate," which is tremendously different.

I'm always honest about my opinions.

335 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:35:32pm

re: #331 Sharmuta

re: #327 Cognito

Are you going to post on topic- with substance? At all?

I did.

336 realwest  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:35:35pm

re: #300 lowandslow Don't start gloating now - my meds have really kicked in and who knows what I'll say. Other than on three different plays I saw Favre take the hike, tuck the ball under his arm, sorta bend down, tie his shoe laces and then stand up and complete a pass. HE should PAY the commissioner to let him play against the gian'ts D (I didn't use quotes around D because that's it; the Giant's don't know how to spell the rest of it).ARRRGGGH!
btw, pneumonia is not a viral infection and it's antibiotics that beat it (that's why ALexander Fleming's discovery of penacilin was so important to the world).
BTW, someday remind me to tell you an absolutly true and amazing story of Fleming's discovering of penacillin.

337 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:37:06pm
338 tblot  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:37:32pm

problem this is war Americans will win in the long run

339 Ginn  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:37:39pm

Damn! Damn! Damn! Ebay Banned the sale of Belgium...

And my bid was number one!

[Link: www.theinquirer.net...]

340 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:37:40pm
No. I didn't say, "Much of the time when I disagree..." I said "play devil's advocate," which is tremendously different.

Same old disingenuousness.

/GAZE mode on.

341 goodbye_natalie  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:37:52pm

re: #307 THX-42

I agree that our military is under appreciated. Even I, who call them heroes, never realized just how good they were until the last four years. When I hear people say we lost the war, I want to scream it lasted three weeks you frickin' moron. We won...

However, no matter how good our military the battle of wills, or more specifically mindset, could never be won until the Iraqi people finally started helping themselves. It took longer than I had hoped but I got to admit, this last two weeks has been the best news I've heard since it started.

342 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:37:59pm

re: #340 Sharmuta

No. I didn't say, "Much of the time when I disagree..." I said "play devil's advocate," which is tremendously different.
Same old disingenuousness.

/GAZE mode on.

ok

343 Racer X  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:38:05pm

re: #325 Highrise

re: #315 Cognito

re: #309 song_and_dance_man

I agree with that. Much of the time when I play devil's advocate here because it's a more efficient way to learn.

I'd call that trolling...

re: #326 Sharmuta

re: #315 Cognito

re: #309 song_and_dance_man

I agree with that. Much of the time when I play devil's advocate here because it's a more efficient way to learn.

Trolling, in other words people.

OK that is just eerie. 10 seconds apart.

344 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:39:47pm

re: #343 Racer X

GMTA.

345 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:39:57pm

re: #341 goodbye_natalie

re: #307 THX-42

I agree that our military is under appreciated. Even I, who call them heroes, never realized just how good they were until the last four years. When I hear people say we lost the war, I want to scream it lasted three weeks you frickin' moron. We won...

However, no matter how good our military the battle of wills, or more specifically mindset, could never be won until the Iraqi people finally started helping themselves. It took longer than I had hoped but I got to admit, this last two weeks has been the best news I've heard since it started.

Yep, I think Iraq has provided us with an all-new model for war. We kicked the door down in a matter of days; after that, the local people seemed unwilling or unable to take over. Something to bear in mind elsewhere.

346 U.S. 395  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:39:58pm

re: #337 song_and_dance_man

re: #324 U.S. 395

One of my favorite highways. Leads to the eastern Sierras.

Yes, I want my ashes scattered along it, all the way up 168. Doesn't get any better.

347 Racer X  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:40:44pm

re: #344 Sharmuta

Any thoughts on Powerball numbers?

348 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:41:01pm

Highrise- I see our fan club is here.

349 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:41:40pm

re: #325 Highrise

&

re: #326 Sharmuta

I wouldn't necessarily call that trolling - whoah! Here I go, Cogs.

Cognito often brings up another viewpoint here that the prevailing posts haven't discussed, where a troll will bring up bullshit for the sake of getting into a war. While some of Cognito's first posts on this blog could be considered trolling, I've noticed a change over time in the types of arguments he will bring up, and how he frames these arguments.

His #145, I felt and still do, was purely contrarian. It was unnecessary for the fact that most of us here are quite painfully aware of the realities in Iraq.

350 poteen  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:42:35pm

re: #340 Sharmuta

No. I didn't say, "Much of the time when I disagree..." I said "play devil's advocate," which is tremendously different.

Same old disingenuousness.

/GAZE mode on.

Why would you want to type a word that long?

351 formercorpsman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:43:01pm

Cognito, I think what some might be trying to articulate, I suspect the most basic element of this piece, provided it has a spin for something positive, it certainly acknowledges past mistakes, tedious dealing, and the uncertainty of the future despite how things might be getting better.

I guess for myself, knowing this guy, and others like him, are doing this at great risk to their own safety, to get a as true of a story as one can of the situation.

I can say when reading something from Totten or Yon, I never come away thinking everything is peaches and cream, or somehow forget other parts of Iraq are in turmoil. But what is most telling for me, is that I don't have the feeling they are trying to shape my opinion, or guiding me to how I should feel about the report.

Much, much different than reading something in Newsweek, or Time, etc.

I don't feel patronized if that means anything.

352 Racer X  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:43:14pm

re: #345 Cognito

Yep, I think Iraq has provided us with an all-new model for war. We kicked the door down in a matter of days; after that, the local people seemed unwilling or unable to take over. Something to bear in mind elsewhere.

I agree with you there. I read somewhere that Bush and Rumsfeld intentionally let things get bad in order to try to get the Iraqi people interested in fighting for THEIR democracy.

353 swamprat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:43:18pm

re: #344 Sharmuta

re: #343 Racer X

GMTA.



and so do ours!

.../pinky, of "pinky and the brain"

354 Ginn  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:44:13pm

re: #345 Cognito

re: #341 goodbye_natalie

re: #307 THX-42

I agree that our military is under appreciated. Even I, who call them heroes, never realized just how good they were until the last four years. When I hear people say we lost the war, I want to scream it lasted three weeks you frickin' moron. We won...

However, no matter how good our military the battle of wills, or more specifically mindset, could never be won until the Iraqi people finally started helping themselves. It took longer than I had hoped but I got to admit, this last two weeks has been the best news I've heard since it started.

Yep, I think Iraq has provided us with an all-new model for war. We kicked the door down in a matter of days; after that, the local people seemed unwilling or unable to take over. Something to bear in mind elsewhere.

Hi Cog!

Well... you know Cog.. Iraq is a new model for war. The MSM never backed it. Never printed the positives. Never admitted Al-Queda was in fact, in Iraq, before the war. I think the MSM gave a leg up to the enemy.

The MSM called the terrorists, "insurgents" which implied they were a step up. I'm not going to lay all the blame on the MSM but it would have been nice if they had tried to not go after Bush from the get-go, made it in a "Got Bush" game and interviewed the enemy to "give their side."

Schitzophrenic behavior to say the least.

355 cbinflux  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:45:00pm
356 goodbye_natalie  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:45:02pm

re: #300 lowandslow

They gave me some anti-biotics but said it was viral and it was just going to take a little time. I'll be alright.

What's with the antibiotics if it's viral pneumonia? I would have thought they'd have given you the anti-virals. I'm not a proponent of taking antibiotics if you don't have too. Too many bad side effects, especially for women.

I'll tell you what helped me more than anything when I had it. Getting the gunk out of my respiratory tract. I would highly recommend an expectorant if you're not doing so. Believe it or not, I used Robitussin at about $3.00 a bottle and it worked wonders - but the taste gags maggots.

357 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:46:13pm
358 rappmandu  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:46:13pm

Cognito,

Ever consider getting a sock puppet...or three?

/

359 realwest  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:46:45pm

Well, gotta get some sleep - have a great night you all and I hope I can catch you tomorrow.

360 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:47:08pm

re: #351 formercorpsman

Cognito, I think what some might be trying to articulate, I suspect the most basic element of this piece, provided it has a spin for something positive, it certainly acknowledges past mistakes, tedious dealing, and the uncertainty of the future despite how things might be getting better.

I guess for myself, knowing this guy, and others like him, are doing this at great risk to their own safety, to get a as true of a story as one can of the situation.

I can say when reading something from Totten or Yon, I never come away thinking everything is peaches and cream, or somehow forget other parts of Iraq are in turmoil. But what is most telling for me, is that I don't have the feeling they are trying to shape my opinion, or guiding me to how I should feel about the report.

Much, much different than reading something in Newsweek, or Time, etc.

I don't feel patronized if that means anything.

It does mean something. It means everything, really.

My comment was never meant to be a reflection on Totten, but on the state of things in Iraq.

I'm somewhat irked that, when the Iraq government banned work there by Blackwater -- that was yesterday -- our whole diplomatic operation more or less shut down. Immediately. We're grounded in the Green Zone like a small child in his room.

That disillusioned me, I think, regarding the situation in Iraq.

361 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:47:23pm

Once again- we are talking about a disingenuous poster instead of the topic.

Violence has declined so sharply in Ramadi that few journalists bother to visit these days. It’s “boring,” most say, and it’s hard to get a story out there – especially for daily news reporters who need fresh scoops every day. Unlike most journalists, I am not a slave to the daily news grind and took the time to embed with the Army and Marines in late summer.

Good ol' msm. Thank goodness for indie-journalists. Doing the job the msm is to bored to do.

362 lowandslow  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:47:34pm

re: #336 realwest

I could have swore they told me it they thought it was a Viral pneumonia and the anti-biotics were to prevent something else. I guess I wasn't paying much attention.

363 goodbye_natalie  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:47:34pm

re: #359 realwest

Good night Real...

364 Killian Bundy  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:49:11pm

re: #348 Sharmuta

Highrise- I see our fan club is here.

Did you guys see this?

/before you get off on another "troll" frenzy

365 lowandslow  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:49:19pm

Goodnight realwest!

366 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:50:28pm

re: #354 Ginn

re: #345 Cognito

re: #341 goodbye_natalie
re: #307 THX-42I agree that our military is under appreciated. Even I, who call them heroes, never realized just how good they were until the last four years. When I hear people say we lost the war, I want to scream it lasted three weeks you frickin' moron. We won...

However, no matter how good our military the battle of wills, or more specifically mindset, could never be won until the Iraqi people finally started helping themselves. It took longer than I had hoped but I got to admit, this last two weeks has been the best news I've heard since it started.

Yep, I think Iraq has provided us with an all-new model for war. We kicked the door down in a matter of days; after that, the local people seemed unwilling or unable to take over. Something to bear in mind elsewhere.
Hi Cog!

Well... you know Cog.. Iraq is a new model for war. The MSM never backed it. Never printed the positives. Never admitted Al-Queda was in fact, in Iraq, before the war. I think the MSM gave a leg up to the enemy.

The MSM called the terrorists, "insurgents" which implied they were a step up. I'm not going to lay all the blame on the MSM but it would have been nice if they had tried to not go after Bush from the get-go, made it in a "Got Bush" game and interviewed the enemy to "give their side."

Schitzophrenic behavior to say the least.

I think you're the bees' knees, Ginn, but I think you're placing way -- way -- too much at the feet of the media here.

367 U.S. 395  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:50:44pm

Bottom of thread. Arguing commencing. Off to watch "House" on TIVO

368 swamprat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:51:48pm
Doing the job the "msm" is to bored to do.



Really, there is no such thing as "main stream media";...but, boy! Do they suck!

369 Ginn  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:51:55pm

re: #359 realwest

Well, gotta get some sleep - have a great night you all and I hope I can catch you tomorrow.

Night Real West!

Take care!

370 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:52:22pm
371 Ginn  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:53:02pm

re: #366 Cognito

Well Cog.. maybe so. But then again.. the big MSM was never behind this war, was it, Cog...

Be honest.

372 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:54:13pm

re: #364 Killian Bundy

What are you driving at?

373 goodbye_natalie  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:54:19pm

re: #362 lowandslow

See my #356...

I will tell you that if you're not feeling better after about 5-7 days, I would can the antibiotics unless there is some extenuating circumstance. I know that's taboo when they tell you it is imperative to finish the antibiotic medication due to resistance but that is when there actually is an infection.

Antibiotics are one of medicine's miracles but unfortunately it also kills the normal flora that the body uses to fight general infections of the bad bacteria.

Kind of a Catch 22...

374 Highrise  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:55:06pm

re: #349 Noam Sayin'

Noam,

I've been around for months posting..been reading for longer.

This isn't the first time he derails threads with his circular banter and he has admitted now that he does this to play devil's advocate.

If that isn't trollish behaviour, I'm not sure what is.

I call it like I see it. If people wish to kiss his ass and pat him on the back for a job well done, they can.

If one plays *devil's advocate*, they usually say it up front. It IS disingenous to derail a thread such as he does often enough and now post that he does it on purpose?

I call bullshit.

375 poteen  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:55:35pm

re: #364 Killian Bundy

Thank you. I was looking for that.

376 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:56:21pm

re: #371 Ginn

re: #366 Cognito

Well Cog.. maybe so. But then again.. the big MSM was never behind this war, was it, Cog...

Be honest.

I'm not saying it was. I'm saying it didn't matter to the degree you're suggesting. Or anywhere near it. The media didn't make strategic decisions, direct materiel, position units, and so forth.

And here's what I mean -- I think we won the war. It's everything that followed that has caused us problems.

377 Killian Bundy  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:57:28pm

re: #372 Sharmuta

Charles is obviously referring to the tommoon episode.

/pretty petty and ugly

378 formercorpsman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:58:00pm

re: #360 Cognito

Well see, I have tried to go back, and reconstruct the posts so I could understand the punch fest, and you did not mention what you just did about Blackwater.

I do thing there is quite a bit of relevance to that statement, and the effect of that action in Baghdad. Actually quite interesting, as I was reading some other opinion on that topic earlier.

Again, I think what you mentioned is relevant, but reading back on a couple of the first posts, would have actually changed the flavor of where things went from that point forward had you mentioned why you were parsing the success of Ramada with the continued ruckus that plagues Baghdad.

Again, the one absolute I can say unequivocally about reading folks like Totten, is that I don't feel as if they think I am just another dope out there whose opinion they can sway by adding nuance the article.

379 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:58:00pm

re: #374 Highrise

I call it like I see it. If people wish to kiss his ass and pat him on the back for a job well done, they can.

Shirley.

You jest.

380 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:58:09pm

re: #308 swamprat

re: #297 NomadOfNorad

re: #213 buzzsawmonkey


re: #202 NomadOfNorad


Someone needs to invent a prestigious new prize for journalists that find out what the real truth is, despite the prevailing views of the mainstream.


So what should the name of the alternative to the Bullshitzer be?


The idea would be to name the prize after, say, a famous and much-respected Righty commentator and fact-finder. Someone who is so renowned for the near-infallibility of his predictions, and who has been proved correct over and over and over again, over a period of many years, that everyone respects him as a matter of course.


Oh c'mon! The "Limbaugh"?

Uhhm... actually, calling it "the Limbaugh" would probably not be a good choice, simply because he's so controversial in today's world, and there are people who still hate his guts. There are people who'd blow a gasket just hearing the name, and wouldn't even notice the merits of the person being given the award, or might even savage the person just because he's been given a Limbaugh award.

No, we need someone from a previous generation who is at least an equal to Limbaugh in his importance to the cause. Say, someone from the 1930s or the 1960s whos gone now, but who had great insight into how wrong the Left was.

381 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:58:24pm

The Iraq War will be a new model of how wars are won. The MSM have destoryed themselves trying to rip it down.

The Dems are too scared to gainsay now as they realize that Americans don't like losers (you think Carter's ouster would have beena hint).

The Loonie Left have yet to register few cotton to they're antics anymore and treat them asa curiosity at best, verminous traitors at worst.

We have washed away the Vietnam syndrome amount the younger generation. Now to deal with the older set.

382 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:59:22pm

re: #377 Killian Bundy

Yeah- I figured that out. What are you driving at? That posters can no longer be called on their sh*t? You all better lighten up on Gordon if that's the case. And Chen too.

383 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 9:59:59pm

re: #378 formercorpsman

Well see, I have tried to go back, and reconstruct the posts so I could understand the punch fest, and you did not mention what you just did about Blackwater.

Actually it was in my very first post:

Things can't be good across the breadth of Iraq, as just today the U.S. government has suspended all diplomatic movement outside the Green Zone.

Hopefully more of the country will come around, and soon.

And your point about Totten not talking down to his readers is well taken.

384 bikermailman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:01:01pm

re: #366 Cognito

re: #354 Ginn


re: #345 Cognito
re: #341 goodbye_natalie
re: #307 THX-42I agree that our military is under appreciated. Even I, who call them heroes, never realized just how good they were until the last four years. When I hear people say we lost the war, I want to scream it lasted three weeks you frickin' moron. We won...
However, no matter how good our military the battle of wills, or more specifically mindset, could never be won until the Iraqi people finally started helping themselves. It took longer than I had hoped but I got to admit, this last two weeks has been the best news I've heard since it started.
Yep, I think Iraq has provided us with an all-new model for war. We kicked the door down in a matter of days; after that, the local people seemed unwilling or unable to take over. Something to bear in mind elsewhere.
Hi Cog!
Well... you know Cog.. Iraq is a new model for war. The MSM never backed it. Never printed the positives. Never admitted Al-Queda was in fact, in Iraq, before the war. I think the MSM gave a leg up to the enemy.

The MSM called the terrorists, "insurgents" which implied they were a step up. I'm not going to lay all the blame on the MSM but it would have been nice if they had tried to not go after Bush from the get-go, made it in a "Got Bush" game and interviewed the enemy to "give their side."

Schitzophrenic behavior to say the least.


I think you're the bees' knees, Ginn, but I think you're placing way -- way -- too much at the feet of the media here.

I'm just going to jump in and say one thing before heading for bed, but this has been hacking me off recently. If the media - AND the Democrat party put just half the fight into fighting the people who want America taken down, and every damn one of us, left, right, Republican and Democrat, D E D Dead, then we might...just might...have been able to wound up major operations in Iraq by now. Not be done with it, any more than we are done in South Korea, Germany, Okinawa, or any of a number of other places. But we could now be down to say, 30,000 or 40,000 troops instead of 160,000. We've been having to fight this on two fronts. One with the enemy in the ME, and the other here, the left kicking and screaming, doing everything they can to block Bush's efforts and the military's efforts to win. Just because they. hate. Bush. If we had a President Gore or Kerry, this just wouldn't be happening.

385 Ginn  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:01:07pm

re: #376 Cognito

re: #371 Ginn

re: #366 Cognito

Well Cog.. maybe so. But then again.. the big MSM was never behind this war, was it, Cog...

Be honest.

I'm not saying it was. I'm saying it didn't matter to the degree you're suggesting. Or anywhere near it. The media didn't make strategic decisions, direct materiel, position units, and so forth.

And here's what I mean -- I think we won the war. It's everything that followed that has caused us problems.

Okay... I did vastly overstate the MSM's role. Have you seen my new blog?

[Link: deathby1000papercuts.blogspot.com...]

386 lowandslow  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:01:12pm

re: #373 goodbye_natalie

Actually I've had it about 5 days already (just went to the doctor yesterday, thought it was a bad cold that just wouldn't go away) and have been hitting the Vicks heavy yesterday and today and it seems to be working.

387 swamprat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:01:44pm

Too tired for popcorn. Going to bed.

388 Killian Bundy  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:01:50pm

re: #382 Sharmuta

Hey, all I'm doing is pointing it out to you in case you didn't see it.

/take it for what it's worth

389 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:02:02pm

re: #379 Cognito

Shirley.

You jest.

Yeah, I had trouble reconciling that one, too.

Well, g'night folks.

390 Highrise  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:02:12pm

re: #377 Killian Bundy

re: #372 Sharmuta

Charles is obviously referring to the tommoon episode.

/pretty petty and ugly

Anyone reviewing what tommoon says..he comes in late and starts spewing how LGF is a hate site.

How does that benefit Charles and LGF?

And calling him out is NOT petty NOR ugly.

You clearly have not read the mess he has caused here.

391 ChenZhen  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:02:50pm

#354 Ginn

The MSM called the terrorists, "insurgents" which implied they were a step up. I'm not going to lay all the blame on the MSM but it would have been nice if they had tried to not go after Bush from the get-go, made it in a "Got Bush" game and interviewed the enemy to "give their side."

There are insurgents in Iraq, Ginn. The MSM isn't making it up.

392 cbinflux  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:02:58pm

LEAVE BRITNEY CHEN ALONE!

393 Highrise  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:03:22pm

re: #388 Killian Bundy

re: #382 Sharmuta

Hey, all I'm doing is pointing it out to you in case you didn't see it.

/take it for what it's worth

And this has what to do with the price of beans in china in regards to calling out cognito for just NOW admitting he starts trouble on purpose?

394 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:03:44pm

re: #385 Ginn

I did see your blog! I think it's great. And I love the name.

395 Ginn  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:04:17pm

re: #391 ChenZhen

#354 Ginn


The MSM called the terrorists, "insurgents" which implied they were a step up. I'm not going to lay all the blame on the MSM but it would have been nice if they had tried to not go after Bush from the get-go, made it in a "Got Bush" game and interviewed the enemy to "give their side."
There are insurgents in Iraq, Ginn. The MSM isn't making it up.

Chen... yes, there are "insurgents" and there are, terrorists, Al-Queda. The MSM lumped them all together. They are not the same.

396 lowandslow  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:04:24pm

re: #373 goodbye_natalie

I'm going to try your Robitussin tomorrow.

397 Ginn  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:05:21pm

re: #394 Cognito

re: #385 Ginn

I did see your blog! I think it's great. And I love the name.

Thanks Cog.. I've actually done a cartoon. "Infidel Warrior Babes" I think I see a new career.

(lol)

398 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:05:28pm

re: #388 Killian Bundy

I stated that GAZE mode was now on, so thank you.

399 Highrise  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:05:37pm

re: #389 Noam Sayin'

Trouble reconciling this? Please explain and refute what I just said to you. That is unusual reply from you..and frankly surprises me.

We have someone who just now admitted that he comes here to play devil's advocate so he can learn more...derailing threads...

and that somehow is not trolling? And I'm wrong to say so?

400 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:05:55pm
401 goodbye_natalie  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:06:20pm

re: #364 Killian Bundy

Did you guys see this?

No, but I got to admit personally every time I am directed to one of those comments from Charles, I find myself perusing through the thread thinking, "Oh shiite, I hope I didn't pop off again somewhere..."

It's like Natalie LGF paranoia...with Charles yielding the Taser.

402 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:06:59pm

re: #393 Highrise

re: #388 Killian Bundy

re: #382 Sharmuta

Hey, all I'm doing is pointing it out to you in case you didn't see it.

/take it for what it's worth

And this has what to do with the price of beans in china in regards to calling out cognito for just NOW admitting he starts trouble on purpose?

His point is that intra-bloggy spats are, at the least, boring. And so to be avoided.

Like saying I'm 'just NOW admitting [I] start trouble on purpose' when I said no such thing. I said that when I play devil's advocate -- I won't insult you by defining the term -- it's a good way to learn.

Now please, let's move along.

403 goodbye_natalie  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:07:42pm

re: #396 lowandslow

If it really is viral, I think it will help. At least it did me. Get well and let me know if it worked for you too.

404 cbinflux  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:08:57pm

HEY! She's talking, but his lips are moving..?!

405 Killian Bundy  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:09:22pm

re: #390 Highrise

Yeah, I read it and obviously so did Charles. What I think doesn't matter. Charles was apparently not amused.

/don't bitch at me, I'm just wanted to be sure you were aware of it

406 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:09:24pm

re: #397 Ginn

Yep. I saw the cartoon -- does that come from a template somewhere? Or are you a rockin' artiste as well?

407 Racer X  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:11:02pm

re: #391 ChenZhen

There are insurgents in Iraq, Ginn. The MSM isn't making it up.

And those would be who? The ones chopping off heads, blowing up mosques, or car-bombing civilian targets?

408 carridine  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:11:25pm

re: #383 Cognito

"Things can't be good across the breadth of Iraq, as just today the U.S. government has suspended all diplomatic movement outside the Green Zone."

This is where we differ, Cognito.

Telling DIPLOMATIC persons, who may be privy to VERY SENSITIVE INFO, that they should not venture out for a while, is significantly DIFFERENT FROM "Things can't be good across the breadth of Iraq..."

I brought this up earlier, but I couldn't communicate well. 85% of Iraq "across the breadth of Iraq" has been and still is pacified and peaceful.

Just because diplomatic corps are restricted does not mean and should not be construed as meaning "Things can't be good across the breadth of Iraq..."

When I held Top Secret clearance, there were places I was NOT ALLOWED to visit, or travel through or over. That didn't mean the countries were in violent conflict or swimming with terrorists, Buddy...

409 ChenZhen  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:12:04pm

re: #397 Ginn

re: #394 Cognito


re: #385 Ginn

I did see your blog! I think it's great. And I love the name.


Thanks Cog.. I've actually done a cartoon. "Infidel Warrior Babes" I think I see a new career.

(lol)

I'm still trying to decide which one of you is hotter ;)

410 Ginn  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:13:08pm

re: #406 Cognito

re: #397 Ginn

Yep. I saw the cartoon -- does that come from a template somewhere? Or are you a rockin' artiste as well?

(lol) Nope! It's with the help from a cartoon generator strip.

411 Yankee Division Son  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:13:12pm
“All the tribes agreed to fight al Qaeda until the last child in Anbar,” the Sheikh’s brother Ahmed told a Reuters reporter.

I was going to ask if this was reported by reuters, quick search and is was. I started to notice the domains that where (and were not) coming up in the results. (some 479, for that phrase, in quotes)

This brings me to point out an interesting and sometimes usefull feature of Google, if you add "site:domain" to the end of your search queary, the results will be only for that domain. For instance, foxnews.com.

Try it it's fun. I did CNN.com, MSNBC.com, NYTIMES.com...

412 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:13:30pm
413 Ginn  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:14:03pm

re: #409 ChenZhen

re: #397 Ginn

re: #394 Cognito

re: #385 GinnI did see your blog! I think it's great. And I love the name.

Thanks Cog.. I've actually done a cartoon. "Infidel Warrior Babes" I think I see a new career.(lol)
I'm still trying to decide which one of you is hotter ;)

oh la la~

I'm working on the next installment... more LGF babes have signed on. We shall... save the world.

414 lowandslow  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:14:19pm

re: #403 goodbye_natalie

Will do, thanks.

415 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:14:19pm

re: #408 carridine

re: #383 Cognito

"Things can't be good across the breadth of Iraq, as just today the U.S. government has suspended all diplomatic movement outside the Green Zone."
This is where we differ, Cognito.

Telling DIPLOMATIC persons, who may be privy to VERY SENSITIVE INFO, that they should not venture out for a while, is significantly DIFFERENT FROM "Things can't be good across the breadth of Iraq..."

I brought this up earlier, but I couldn't communicate well. 85% of Iraq "across the breadth of Iraq" has been and still is pacified and peaceful.

Just because diplomatic corps are restricted does not mean and should not be construed as meaning "Things can't be good across the breadth of Iraq..."

When I held Top Secret clearance, there were places I was NOT ALLOWED to visit, or travel through or over. That didn't mean the countries were in violent conflict or swimming with terrorists, Buddy...

Are you arguing -- and I ask this with some trepidation -- that Iraq is not in violent conflict? There's a reason those secret-holding, super-privy diplomatic people aren't allowed out of the Green Zone. And it's not well-wishers.

416 Highrise  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:14:21pm

re: #405 Killian Bundy

I think you have misinterpreted Charles' message, personally.

I would think that Charles is tired of people who call LGF a hate site and come here to play *devil's advocate*is who he is tired of. We call those out daily..and they should stop...now?

If you suggest that, I'll not forget.

417 NomadOfNorad  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:15:43pm

re: #391 ChenZhen

#354 Ginn


The MSM called the terrorists, "insurgents" which implied they were a step up. I'm not going to lay all the blame on the MSM but it would have been nice if they had tried to not go after Bush from the get-go, made it in a "Got Bush" game and interviewed the enemy to "give their side."

There are insurgents in Iraq, Ginn. The MSM isn't making it up.

What is your definition of "an insurgent"?

418 formercorpsman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:16:34pm

re: #391 ChenZhen

Chen, Ginn was making my point better than I with respect to what I was attempting to say in my own posts.

For at least 3 years now, any reporting from the msm with respect to Iraq is agenda driven.

They report specifically with the intent to persuade the recipient in to making an opinion based on their spin, and not having the reader connect the dots by processing the actual journalistic aspect of the piece.

The msm always, always, always, will nuance any report because they have a political axe to grind. Never once, since they started using the word insurgent in place of terrorist, have they made a valid attempt to differentiate why they label terrorists insurgents, and fore-go the label of terrorist for those who use terror.

We could go on for days. Your point that, "guess what, they report insurgents because there are insurgents" is weak considering, they use harsher language describing our troops in a prison, acting very unprofessional, versus a group who uses little Iraqi children in the back seat of a car loaded with explosives, to compromise a checkpoint knowing these kids are being sent to their deaths unbeknown st to them.

That is the difference.

419 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:17:01pm
420 Yankee Division Son  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:17:13pm

re: #411 Yankee Division Son

Now there's 630.. hmm either the word is speading or I'm really tired and had more windows open then I thought :)

421 Ginn  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:18:52pm

re: #418 formercorpsman

The msm always, always, always, will nuance any report because they have a political axe to grind. Never once, since they started using the word insurgent in place of terrorist, have they made a valid attempt to differentiate why they label terrorists insurgents, and fore-go the label of terrorist for those who use terror.

Absolutely true.
Great post.

422 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:19:19pm

re: #408 carridine

And further, just to make sure we're working from the same script, I'm not talking about a handful of people with security clearances who aren't allowed to go out at night.

When Blackwater lost its license, our whole political machine in Iraq shut down immediately: Whammo. It's a problem. We'll have no influence, or even engagement, in Iraq if the situation continues. It won't -- it can't, surely.

423 Killian Bundy  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:19:38pm

re: #416 Highrise

I think you have misinterpreted Charles' message, personally.

I would think that Charles is tired of people who call LGF a hate site and come here to play *devil's advocate*is who he is tired of. We call those out daily..and they should stop...now?

If you suggest that, I'll not forget.

Boy, I'd read that message again if I were you. Did you e-mail Charles about tommoon? Someone did.

/if you want to pretend you're the self-appointed Righteous LGF Blog Police, good luck with that

424 Racer X  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:19:45pm

re: #420 Yankee Division Son

re: #411 Yankee Division Son

Now there's 630.. hmm either the word is speading or I'm really tired and had more windows open then I thought :)

Lets hope the word is spreading.

Amillionfuckingdead.

425 Render  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:21:05pm

The term "insurgents" as used in the current Iraq context covers a large number of very different groups.

To include the PKK (Iraqi Kurd Commies), al-Q in Iraq (formerly known as Ansar el-Islam), dozens of various former Saddamite Sunni Baathist groups and Sunni tribal groups, at least two major Shia militias and several dozen smaller Shia tribal groups (including the Marsh Arabs), a couple of thousand Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps al-Quds force agents and operatives...

And last, but far from least, every single one of the tribal and local groups that are now "insurgent" against the forces of darkness.

By the strictest definition of the term, US forces, in the midst of a surge, are "insurgent" as well.

BLOW
CHUNKS,
R

426 PeaceBeUponHim  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:21:30pm

Sent him $10. Good story.

427 Ginn  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:22:43pm

re: #425 Render

The term "insurgents" as used in the current Iraq context covers a large number of very different groups.

To include the PKK (Iraqi Kurd Commies), al-Q in Iraq (formerly known as Ansar el-Islam), dozens of various former Saddamite Sunni Baathist groups and Sunni tribal groups, at least two major Shia militias and several dozen smaller Shia tribal groups (including the Marsh Arabs), a couple of thousand Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps al-Quds force agents and operatives...

And last, but far from least, every single one of the tribal and local groups that are now "insurgent" against the forces of darkness.

By the strictest definition of the term, US forces, in the midst of a surge, are "insurgent" as well.

BLOW
CHUNKS,
R

Cool Render. Thanks for the break down on "insurgents"

/hey!

428 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:24:51pm
429 Highrise  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:26:43pm

re: #423 Killian Bundy

Boy, I'd read that message again if I were you. Did you e-mail Charles about tommoon? Someone did.

Go back and read that thread and you will see that tommoon SAID that he would email charles. I most CERTAINLY did NOT.

/if you want to pretend you're the self-appointed Righteous LGF Blog Police, good luck with that

Nope I'm not the self appointed blog police but I question why YOU would come up with that title. A bit interesting. Nothing I've done in this thread here is any different than what most lgfers would do to someone who is disingenous.

430 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:27:37pm

Well.

Long as I'm making friends left and right, tonight, I might as well make 'em permanent:

I do differentiate between terrorists and insurgents, because -- well -- because there is a difference. There's no more nobility in the word 'insurgent' than 'terrorist.' But they do have distinct definitions. A terrorists strikes at civilians for political gain, whereas an insurgent fights some authority.

The two terms can overlap -- an insurgent might engage in terroristic activity (making himself a terrorist) --- but they are distinct terms.

431 ChenZhen  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:27:47pm

#418 formercorpsman

It's not as if I was trying to make the argument that there aren't terrorists there as well. I suppose the case could be made for the media's careless juxtoposition of the terms, whether it's agenda driven or not. But if there weren't a genuine insurgency, I honestly doubt that Petraeus would need a Senior Counterinsurgency Adviser in his inner circle.

432 unclassifiable  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:28:06pm

re: #428 song_and_dance_man

Well escalation sounds scarier than surge for some reason.

433 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:28:30pm
434 swamprat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:30:02pm

re: #417 NomadOfNorad

re: #391 ChenZhen


#354 Ginn


The MSM called the terrorists, "insurgents" which implied they were a step up. I'm not going to lay all the blame on the MSM but it would have been nice if they had tried to not go after Bush from the get-go, made it in a "Got Bush" game and interviewed the enemy to "give their side."

There are insurgents in Iraq, Ginn. The MSM isn't making it up.

What is your definition of "an insurgent"?


I would like to address this;
If a man, for whatever reason, shoots openly at a soldier, he is not a "terrorist".
If the same man, tries to frighten the local population, by bombs, beheading, whatever; By definition, he is a "terrorist".
Any person who actively opposes the current occupation, is an "insurgent"

435 poteen  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:32:02pm

re: #430 Cognito

Go for it. Yer on a roll.

436 RTLM  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:33:28pm

"Terrorists" and "insurgents". I believe the MSM umbrella term is "Militant".

Given the the murdered are the same demo (anybody) I apply the same definition to all three.

437 swamprat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:33:54pm

re: #434 swamprat
dingos ate the last 2 sentences; the gist is:-- insurgent is easier to determine than terrorist.

438 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:34:05pm
439 swamprat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:35:00pm

nite all

440 Syrah  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:35:02pm

re: #391 ChenZhen

There are insurgents in Iraq, Ginn. The MSM isn't making it up.

I have been giving this some thought.

Thinking about terms.

What exactly is an insurgent?

Shouldn't Said Namouh be considered an “insurgent” by the same rationale that we call the Al Qaeda in Iraq jihadis “insurgents”?

441 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:35:20pm

re: #438 song_and_dance_man

re: #430 Cognito

Well.

Long as I'm making friends left and right, tonight, I might as well make 'em permanent:

I do differentiate between terrorists and insurgents, because -- well -- because there is a difference. There's no more nobility in the word 'insurgent' than 'terrorist.' But they do have distinct definitions. A terrorists strikes at civilians for political gain, whereas an insurgent fights some authority.

The two terms can overlap -- an insurgent might engage in terroristic activity (making himself a terrorist) --- but they are distinct terms.

Semantics. A socialist is just that whether they are called the American left, moonbat or Progressive.

Sorry, but no. It's not semantics. There is a material difference.

442 Render  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:35:29pm

I'm sorta nonplussed about the term "surge" in this context anyway...

Sherman didn't "surge" on Atlanta. Patton didn't "surge" in Normandy or at the Bulge. MacArthur didn't "surge" across the Pacific, or over the Inchon mud flats, Stormin Norman didn't "surge" around and through Kuwait.

HIYA
GINN!,
R

443 nikis-knight  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:37:51pm
If a man, for whatever reason, shoots openly at a soldier, he is not a "terrorist".

Ah, but a key word there is "openly". how often do these men shoot at our soliders in some dishonorable way? Either after surrendering, playing dead, or growing up in our country and deciding that it's time for jihad, gonna go the base and hit some Americans?

444 RTLM  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:38:36pm

re: #442 Render

The word "surge" has a temporary in duration connotation. More palatable for the retreat parrots.

445 Conserve Liberty  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:38:43pm

re: #239 rappmandu

The Charles Johnson Award

/Duh!

And do we memorialize the award with a lizard -

Or a football?

446 formercorpsman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:39:18pm

re: #431 ChenZhen

Chen, I was not taking issue with your opinion. I would agree actually.

I would say, and perhaps my interpretation from reading Totten's piece, the insurgency would be the result of where you have the arab man on the street in Ramadi politically against our troops because of propaganda a group such as the Baathists looking to regain a foothold, hence feeding his mind with the American wants to take your women and steal your oil, thus turning the average Iraqi in their favor.

The terrorist would be AQI, who feeds the same line, all the while installing the micro-caliphate, and slaughtering those who do not comply.

For too long, the msm has played the angle of, if they just give enough of a story, interchange terrorist actions, with a word like insurgent, event when the circumstance would apply, the impression left on the average American would be, we provoked the situation, are exacerbating it by staying there, and the insurgents are only trying to get back what was theirs to begin with.

The msm is very dishonest when presenting information. This is why they are suffering the way they are now.

447 Render  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:40:22pm

Maybe David Kilcullen can explain it better than I can...

[Link: www.smallwarsjournal.com...]

HELP
YOURSELF,
R

448 Ginn  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:41:42pm

re: #434 swamprat

re: #417 NomadOfNorad

re: #391 ChenZhen

#354 Ginn


The MSM called the terrorists, "insurgents" which implied they were a step up. I'm not going to lay all the blame on the MSM but it would have been nice if they had tried to not go after Bush from the get-go, made it in a "Got Bush" game and interviewed the enemy to "give their side."

There are insurgents in Iraq, Ginn. The MSM isn't making it up.

What is your definition of "an insurgent"?

I would like to address this;
If a man, for whatever reason, shoots openly at a soldier, he is not a "terrorist".
If the same man, tries to frighten the local population, by bombs, beheading, whatever; By definition, he is a "terrorist".
Any person who actively opposes the current occupation, is an "insurgent"

I feel that any "man" who is killing, blowing up Iraqis and Amercians, who is not an Iraqi, such as the Iranians and Al-Qaeda's from foriegn countries... are.. not... insurgents.

449 formercorpsman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:42:13pm

Have a good night folks, must hit the sack.

450 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:42:23pm
451 Irene NYC  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:42:33pm

re: #431 ChenZhen


I suppose the case could be made for the media's careless juxtoposition of the terms, whether it's agenda driven or not.

Oh please. There's absolutely nothing "careless" about the media's juxtaposition of the terms. When the NYT began to refuse to use the term "terrorist," it was during the reporting of the Beslan massacre. It was a political decision. And they have continued to use or not use terms to drive their political agenda.

452 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:44:10pm

re: #447 Render

Thanks for that.

453 ChenZhen  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:48:57pm

I'd thought I'd comment on it since it got so much attention...

Re: "devil's advocate"

In common parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who takes a position for the sake of argument. This practice is generally an instructional technique in which one person argues a position that another is less familiar with, thereby teaching proper argument.

The phrase "let me play devil's advocate" or equivalent is used in group discussions to counter groupthink; the speaker is about to say something counter to the perceived group consensus and does not want to be personally ostracized for this.

...and to revisit...

#315 Cognito

I agree with that. Much of the time when I play devil's advocate here because it's a more efficient way to learn.

Quite the opposite of trolling IMO.

454 goodbye_natalie  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:49:01pm

Just like speculators try and make markets with the fear factor because it is the tool they use to make money, for the last 40 years the MSM has "made news" by continually trying to sow discourse with their lefty slant. That is how they believe they stay relevant and facilitate control. And as long as the MSM was the only source of news, they wielded considerable power.

The MSM's worst nightmare came true with the advent of talk radio, the FOX News channel, and right wing blogs with quick access to the same information because the MSM can no longer easily make news to swing votes by forming opinion. For the first time, there was a real choice.

I believe that is why you've seen the increasing hostility from the left. If the left loses mass media control and judicial control which has been trend, their only source of re-establishing power is to sway the opinion back to their world view. And they do that by manipulation thru fear whether it be healthcare or the situation in Iraq.

I believe they could care less about dolts like Al Gore, John Kerry, or even Hillary Clinton (surely they recognize these individuals are completely lame) but they do believe these are the folks who they can most easily manipulate. Their allegiance is to establishing their idea of societal norms. They don't give a damn about who has insurance (as long as they do), or the military (as long as they are safe), or Katrina (as long as the blacks vote Dimocratic every four years).

The common misconception is the left is the "big tent." Baloney - it's group think. It's the Republicans that are far more diverse and far more tolerant.

When you can't win on ideas, you lie about your opponent's ideas.

455 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:50:29pm

'Dozens died in Syrian-Iranian chemical weapons experiment'

Proof of cooperation between Iran and Syria in the proliferation and development of weapons of mass destruction was brought to light Monday in a Jane's Defence Weekly report that dozens of Iranian engineers and 15 Syrian officers were killed in a July 23 accident in Syria.

According to the report, cited by Channel 10, the joint Syrian-Iranian team was attempting to mount a chemical warhead on a Scud missile when the explosion occurred, spreading lethal chemical agents, including sarin nerve gas.

456 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:51:45pm
457 poteen  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:56:24pm

Definitions 101

The French resistance and American minutemen were insurgents.

Uniformed soldiers like the Confederate army or the Contras were rebels as was Washingtons army.

Al Qaeda ,Hizballah, and Hamas are terrorists

458 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:57:55pm
459 pat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:58:17pm

re: #448 Ginn

I feel that any "man" who is killing, blowing up Iraqis and Amercians, who is not an Iraqi, such as the Iranians and Al-Qaeda's from foriegn countries... are.. not... insurgents.

Indeed, sister. Those assholes are normally called "the enemy'. So it almost makes one think that to many MSM, they are not an enemy, but friends. Allies, almost. They term them 'Insurgents', like they are anti-Bush or anti-American. Rather than anti-civilization. Che shirt bravado by the MSM.

460 pat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 10:59:35pm

re: #455 Sharmuta

Damn, Shar. That brought tears to my eyes! /

461 Yankee Division Son  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:00:20pm

re: #424 Racer X

re: #420 Yankee Division Son

re: #411 Yankee Division Son

Now there's 630.. hmm either the word is speading or I'm really tired and had more windows open then I thought :)

Lets hope the word is spreading.

Amillionfuckingdead.


Err.. now there's only 266 hits coming up. What the heck?

462 pat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:01:08pm

I can't stop smiling. I the joker in the house? Shar has me giggling.

463 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:03:13pm

re: #459 pat

re: #448 Ginn


I feel that any "man" who is killing, blowing up Iraqis and Amercians, who is not an Iraqi, such as the Iranians and Al-Qaeda's from foriegn countries... are.. not... insurgents.
Indeed, sister. Those assholes are normally called "the enemy'. So it almost makes one think that to many MSM, they are not an enemy, but friends. Allies, almost. They term them 'Insurgents', like they are anti-Bush or anti-American. Rather than anti-civilization. Che shirt bravado by the MSM.

I drew out my own opinion on 'terrorists' and 'insurgents' above. I do believe they're different, not because of any agenda, but because I believe in using words properly.

Foreign fighters coming into Iraq and fighting Americans are a weird new breed. They're not mercenaries unless they're paid, and if they're fighting against soldiers I don't think they're exactly terrorists in the correct sense. I suppose 'jihadists' fits best.

(And of course if they're fighting against the civilian population, they're just-plain terrorists.)

464 goodbye_natalie  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:03:57pm

re: #453 ChenZhen

In common parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who takes a position for the sake of argument. This practice is generally an instructional technique in which one person argues a position that another is less familiar with, thereby teaching proper argument.

The phrase "let me play devil's advocate" or equivalent is used in group discussions to counter groupthink; the speaker is about to say something counter to the perceived group consensus and does not want to be personally ostracized for this.

A couple of problems with that Chenzen, though I have no problem with you playing devil's advocate. First, this isn't the classroom. Second, you're not qualified to be our instructor.

I don't mind you coming in here to start discussion, no matter how backward I believe your thinking. I do have a real problem with you posting to a blog with a thread that is mocking Charles Johnson's physical appearance. You ought to be ashamed that your name even appears with that crew. You're better than that.

465 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:05:49pm

re: #463 Cognito

but because I believe in using words properly.

I should point out that I said this only because sometimes media folks do make the distinction for reasons other than simple grammatical correctness.

466 rufus lee king  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:08:17pm

Left wing press sobs over failed California antiwar rally.

[Link: www.newsreview.com...]

467 Killian Bundy  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:08:37pm

Oh yeah, sure it's early, but all the main U.S. indices futures are currently green for tomorrow's opening. The Bull wants to romp some more.

/it actually kind of sucks because some of the covered calls I wrote are now in the money with three market sessions to go, oh well, profit is profit if they get assigned, it's all good this week

468 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:09:34pm

re: #464 goodbye_natalie

What you said. Thank you.

469 pat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:10:03pm

I should point out that I can neither spell not type. Fortunately these have are not necessary in my occupation, albeit a constant source of ridicule.

470 goodbye_natalie  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:10:30pm

re: #467 Killian Bundy

I would have prefered three sessions in a row making 100 point gains at a time myself KB.

Natalie would call today's response "irrational exuberance."

471 RTLM  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:11:45pm

re: #467 Killian Bundy

Oh yeah, sure it's early, but all the main U.S. indices futures are currently green for tomorrow's opening. The Bull wants to romp some more.

/it actually kind of sucks because some of the covered calls I wrote are now in the money with three market sessions to go, oh well, profit is profit if they get assigned, it's all good this week

Hey Dems,

Its also the economy, stupid.

472 pat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:13:21pm

re: #470 goodbye_natalie

It did seem something was a bit late, and panicky.

473 goodbye_natalie  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:13:40pm

Got to go gang. See you on the flip side...

474 Render  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:14:11pm

Let's try and avoid the whole "one mans terrorist/freedom fighter" thing, shall we?

Elements of the French Resistance occasionally committed acts, upon other French, both Vichy and otherwise, that could only be defined as "terrorist" in nature.

Elements of the American Minutemen committed a terrorist act or two in their time against various Tory groups.

The Confederate campaigns of Nathan Bedford Forrest and William Quantrill, among others, bore significant terroristic elements to them. [Josey Wales notwithstanding.]

The Contra's many terrorist acts led indirectly to their downfall, especially in the northern sections of the campaign.

And finally, the British Redcoats and their Thin Red Line, whose officers were traditionally unarmed at the time, were none to thrilled with the penchant of forces under Washington's command for targeting said unarmed officers first, from behind cover. A brilliant case of force multiplier if ever there was one.

LAID
ROADS,
R

475 Racer X  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:14:52pm

"terrorist"
"insurgent"

No matter.

Make 'em fucking dead if they intend to harm civilians or American troops.

476 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:15:26pm

re: #474 Render

Let's try and avoid the whole "one mans terrorist/freedom fighter" thing, shall we?

Elements of the French Resistance occasionally committed acts, upon other French, both Vichy and otherwise, that could only be defined as "terrorist" in nature.

Elements of the American Minutemen committed a terrorist act or two in their time against various Tory groups.

The Confederate campaigns of Nathan Bedford Forrest and William Quantrill, among others, bore significant terroristic elements to them. [Josey Wales notwithstanding.]

The Contra's many terrorist acts led indirectly to their downfall, especially in the northern sections of the campaign.

And finally, the British Redcoats and their Thin Red Line, whose officers were traditionally unarmed at the time, were none to thrilled with the penchant of forces under Washington's command for targeting said unarmed officers first, from behind cover. A brilliant case of force multiplier if ever there was one.

LAID
ROADS,
R

Heretic!

477 goodbye_natalie  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:15:50pm

re: #472 pat

Okay, one last comment. Pat, I think investors thought like I did and the Fed would drop it a 1/4. Kind of the conservative approach A.G. helped establish.

I have to admit I was shocked that Bernacke and Co. dropped it 1/2 a point. I was actually expecting the market to take a plunge this morning when I woke up.

Obviously, I need to stay away from the broker house.

478 pat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:16:31pm

re: #474 Render

Them officers had them pointy little swords they kept poking at targets! It ain't right!

479 goodbye_natalie  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:17:20pm

re: #477 goodbye_natalie

Ooops...spelled the man's name wrong. Ben Bernanke

480 pat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:18:36pm

re: #477 goodbye_natalie
I would look into REITS again.

481 justadot  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:18:44pm

re: #461 Yankee Division Son

It's not just you. I saw it go up to 629. I can tell some of the links I saw before are missing. Don't know what happened.

re: #451 Irene NYC

There's absolutely nothing "careless" about the media's juxtaposition of the terms. When the NYT began to refuse to use the term "terrorist," it was during the reporting of the Beslan massacre. It was a political decision. And they have continued to use or not use terms to drive their political agenda.

I know I heard that somewhere…
Terrorists Don't Exist for the MSM

482 poteen  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:20:14pm

re: #474 Render


Asymetric warfare is not a modern concept. I guess.

/devil's advocate off/...to bed

483 RTLM  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:20:28pm

re: #474 Render

And finally, the British Redcoats and their Thin Red Line, whose officers were traditionally unarmed at the time, were none to thrilled with the penchant of forces under Washington's command for targeting said unarmed officers first, from behind cover.

Guess we'll have to fall back on the innate recognition of good vs. bad.

484 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:20:51pm
485 Render  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:23:22pm

re: #463 Cognito

They are not new, they began arriving well before OIF began.

They are being paid, much of the documentation captured has to do with that very matter. They have to show their various paymasters evidence of their work, if they want to get paid.

NO
VOLUNTEERS,
R

486 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:23:37pm

re: #484 song_and_dance_man

To me it's much simpler than that.

Are you striking unarmed civilians in some pizza parlor? You're a terrorist.

Are you shooting at a tank, etc? You're an insurgent.

Some people, of course, are both, because they do both things.

487 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:25:03pm

re: #485 Render

re: #463 Cognito

They are not new, they began arriving well before OIF began.

They are being paid, much of the documentation captured has to do with that very matter. They have to show their various paymasters evidence of their work, if they want to get paid.

NO
VOLUNTEERS,
R

All right, then, they're mercenaries. A very old idea indeed.

488 Racer X  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:27:34pm

re: #484 song_and_dance_man

Excellent post!

You must look at the intent of each side. If American forces "win", what will Iraq look like in 10-20 years? Now how will it look in 10-20 years if the "insurgents" in Iraq "win"?

489 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:29:48pm
490 zombie  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:30:15pm

I'm forcing myself to finish off this hemp chocolate bar. Damn, that's some nasty stuff. I mean, the chocolate itself is top-notch; the add-ins (hemp seeds and "Balinese sea salt") are preposterous.

491 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:30:24pm

re: #489 song_and_dance_man

re: #486 Cognito

So just how many tanks have been shot at by your insurgents in Iraq?

You miss much by avoiding the obvious.

I'm missing your point, there. Please rephrase, if you don't mind.

492 zombie  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:32:05pm

Ooops, I stepped right into the middle of an argument. I will excuse myself. Exit -- stage left!

493 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:32:52pm

Song and dance,

My point is that the differences between 'terrorist' and 'insurgent' aren't merely subjective. We don't have to rely on hazy interpretations of intent, attitude etc. Each term has its own distinct definition.

494 Yankee Division Son  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:33:22pm

re: #481 justadot

re: #461 Yankee Division Son

It's not just you. I saw it go up to 629. I can tell some of the links I saw before are missing. Don't know what happened.

re: #451 Irene NYC


There's absolutely nothing "careless" about the media's juxtaposition of the terms. When the NYT began to refuse to use the term "terrorist," it was during the reporting of the Beslan massacre. It was a political decision. And they have continued to use or not use terms to drive their political agenda.

I know I heard that somewhere...
Terrorists Don't Exist for the MSM

Thank you...

495 Racer X  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:35:07pm

re: #490 zombie

I'm forcing myself to finish off this hemp chocolate bar. Damn, that's some nasty stuff. I mean, the chocolate itself is top-notch; the add-ins (hemp seeds and "Balinese sea salt") are preposterous.

Careful there. Everyone knows chocolate is "catnip for ladies". You don't want to reveal too much.

496 pat  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:35:37pm

re: #490 zombie

Like eating straw. Sheeesh, man. Got the Jumbo Hershey's Peanut Butter Bar here. No trade.

497 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:38:03pm
498 Syrah  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:38:19pm

re: #493 Cognito

Song and dance,

My point is that the differences between 'terrorist' and 'insurgent' aren't merely subjective. We don't have to rely on hazy interpretations of intent, attitude etc. Each term has its own distinct definition.

The problem Cognito is that you are arguing that the terms are distinct, while the actors you would apply them to are not.

499 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:39:12pm

re: #498 Syrah

re: #493 Cognito

Song and dance,

My point is that the differences between 'terrorist' and 'insurgent' aren't merely subjective. We don't have to rely on hazy interpretations of intent, attitude etc. Each term has its own distinct definition.

The problem Cognito is that you are arguing that the terms are distinct, while the actors you would apply them to are not.

I'm not applying them to any particular actors. I'm only talking about the definitions of the words.

500 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:39:38pm
501 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:42:04pm

re: #500 song_and_dance_man

re: #493 Cognito

Song and dance,

My point is that the differences between 'terrorist' and 'insurgent' aren't merely subjective. We don't have to rely on hazy interpretations of intent, attitude etc. Each term has its own distinct definition.

Try to think of terrorist and insurgent objectively, in relation to what they fight for, and you may get it.

Sorry, no, you're contradicting yourself by saying 'objectively' and 'in relation.'

Objectively: Terrorists attack civilians for political gain. Insurgents fight against an authority, whether good or bad.

The 'good or bad' part lies in the relation to what they fight for.

502 Killian Bundy  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:45:24pm

re: #493 Cognito

My point is that the differences between 'terrorist' and 'insurgent' aren't merely subjective. We don't have to rely on hazy interpretations of intent, attitude etc. Each term has its own distinct definition.

No they don't, they're subjective labels, like war crimes.

/and the ultimate definition depends on who's side you're on and to the winners go the dictionary, subject to later subversive revisionism

503 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:47:33pm
504 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:50:59pm

re: #503 song_and_dance_man

Righto.

Except it's not about the words. It's about ideas. About not sliding into some sort of gray equivalence where 'terrorist' and 'insurgent' become interchangeable depending on whether the user has indigestion at the moment.

Funny that I'm the member of the media, on a site that generally professes to despise the media and its fuzzy words, and I'm the one arguing for clear ideas of right at wrong.

505 Killian Bundy  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:54:37pm

re: #504 Cognito

So, are Shia/Sunni males who blow each other up insurgents or terrorists?

/war is gray, always has been

506 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:54:56pm

re: #504 Cognito

No, I'll amend myself: Not clear ideas of right and wrong, but rather just clear ideas. Because 'insurgent' doesn't mean right or wrong necessarily. Depends what he's surging against.

507 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:56:30pm
508 Cognito  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 11:57:04pm

re: #505 Killian Bundy

re: #504 Cognito

So, are Shia/Sunni males who blow each other up insurgents or terrorists?

/war is gray, always has been

I'll bear that 'gray' comment in mind next time someone jumps to argue about moral equivalence.

Meanwhile, I'd say that if the fine fellows you mention are blowing up civilians, they're terrorists. If they're armed, they're at war with each other. And neither is an insurgent, in that situation, because neither is the authority.

509 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 12:00:32am

re: #490 zombie

I'm forcing myself to finish off this hemp chocolate bar. Damn, that's some nasty stuff. I mean, the chocolate itself is top-notch; the add-ins (hemp seeds and "Balinese sea salt") are preposterous.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!? :^D

Zombie, you naughty person! :D

re: #492 zombie

Ooops, I stepped right into the middle of an argument. I will excuse myself. Exit -- stage left!

LOL! ! !
ROFLMGO! ! !

Yeah, probably a very good idea! Hehehehehehehe!

510 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 12:02:03am
511 Cognito  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 12:03:18am

re: #510 song_and_dance_man

re: #506 Cognito

re: #504 Cognito

No, I'll amend myself: Not clear ideas of right and wrong, but rather just clear ideas. Because 'insurgent' doesn't mean right or wrong necessarily. Depends what he's surging against.

Ok, one more say. Dude, just say what you feel and mean without changing it to find a balance where others may find fault and where favor may be lost on your words.

I'm not even sure what that means. I do say what I feel. I haven't changed a thing.

512 Killian Bundy  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 12:03:57am

re: #508 Cognito

So, they don't draw their authority succor from their respective religious factions that date back centuries?

/hmmm, not buying that argument

513 Cognito  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 12:05:23am

re: #510 song_and_dance_man

Or did you mean because I 'amended' myself? That's simply because I mispoke, and needed to clarify.

The difference between 'terrorist' and 'insurgent' isn't the difference between wrong and right. An insurgent can be just as evil and vile a creature as a terrorist.

514 Cognito  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 12:07:39am

re: #512 Killian Bundy

re: #508 Cognito

So, they don't draw their authority succor from their respective religious factions that date back centuries?

/hmmm, not buying that argument

No. When I say authority I mean power. Insurgents strike against a prevailing power. In your scenario the two folks are blowing each other up; one isn't 'surging' against the other.

I'm not making up these definitions, folks. 'Insurgent' and 'terrorist' aren't new words.

515 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 12:14:19am
516 Killian Bundy  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 12:14:19am

re: #514 Cognito

And the two religious factions don't weild power? News to me, contradicted by history.

Okay, the Viet Cong, armed resistance against the government, assassinated civilians wholesale. insurgent or terrorist?

Taliban, etc.?

/distinctions without meaningful differences

517 Syrah  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 12:24:59am

re: #499 Cognito

re: #498 Syrah

re: #493 Cognito

Song and dance,My point is that the differences between 'terrorist' and 'insurgent' aren't merely subjective. We don't have to rely on hazy interpretations of intent, attitude etc. Each term has its own distinct definition.

The problem Cognito is that you are arguing that the terms are distinct, while the actors you would apply them to are not.

I'm not applying them to any particular actors. I'm only talking about the definitions of the words.

Nonsense

your differentiation of the words is dependent on who the actors target.

You even make the point that the actors could have both words applied to them at the same time.

Some people, of course, are both, because they do both things.

The terms are not mutually exclusive in of themselves, so it causes confusion to argue for a clear differentiation of the two terms when they are not, even by your own argument, mutually exclusive.

518 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 12:26:34am
519 Droplet  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 12:36:48am

"And we continute to have the support of the citizens of Saigon..."

I think I'll skip another true believer essay on the Iraq debacle.

520 Killian Bundy  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 12:46:45am

The SAS kicks Taliban ass!

/this rhyming quote thingy is kinda fun

521 shmu  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 3:28:09am

Iraq is a useless war, Iraq is not a cohesive country, the US will be fighting there for years, it is a tribal society with blood as the glue that sticks people together, not national consciousness.

IRAN is the real threat to world peace.. It is they and their SAUDI counterparts who will launch sickness and death upon the world

522 BulgarWheat  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 3:40:07am

#521 shmu

Calling the war in Iraq useless is painting with a very broad brush.

In their last election, more Iraqi's than American's (percentage wise) voted.

You, along with other folks seem to be of the "instant gratification" stripe. Things don't work that way in the real world.

We do have our eye on Iran, and Syria.

523 David IV of Georgia  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 4:05:41am

re: #521 shmu

Iraq is a useless war, Iraq is not a cohesive country, the US will be fighting there for years, it is a tribal society with blood as the glue that sticks people together, not national consciousness.

IRAN is the real threat to world peace.. It is they and their SAUDI counterparts who will launch sickness and death upon the world


Sometimes you attack Italy and Fwance before you attack Germany. While Saudi still seems to have an unmerited hands off policy attached to it, no course of action has been ruled out for Iran and Syria. Iraq does seem to be an expensive and slow endeavor, but Saddam was a loose cannon on a fragile ship.

524 Jeff MacMillan  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 6:18:26am

One can take their helmet off in RAMADI IRAQ?

I can't even park my Batmobile in the city of Detroit where almost 9 people have been murdered (shot) in less than 2 days.

525 nikis-knight  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 6:59:39am

(If this discussion is still going on...)
If insurgents target military and terrorists civilians, what do you call the ones who place roadside bombs uncaring of who they kill?
When was the last time the enemy in Iraq actually chose to discriminately kill an American soldier, rather than murder their kin or bomb indiscriminately? I'm not sure there are any insurgents, just terrorists who fight back when the Americans catch them going after civilians.

526 Jeff MacMillan  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 7:16:18am

#525 nikis-knight

You make an excellent point. The American News Media worries and complains when we drop a missile on a Terrorist Safe House...

But these IEDs don't ever get the same talking points. The enemy we face is indeed targeting everyone/anyone.

Terrorists who Allianced with the Sunnis did more killing of SUNNIS than they did of American Soldiers.

Also, when our American Soldiers are essentially mixed in with Iraqi soldiers... During an Ambush there's no attempt by terrorists to differentiate who their enemy is.

To a terrorist, if they do not hold the reigns of political power than virtually everyone and anyone that's not THEM is their enemy.

527 MoonbatBane  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 7:38:40am

Hmm, smell a possible new-born troll up at 521. Time will tell, but remember, if it is, DON'T FEED THE TROLL!

From Totten:

“We hand out care packages from the U.S. to Iraqis now that the area has been cleared of terrorists,” one Marine told me. “When we tell them that some of these packages aren’t from the military or the government, that they were donated by average American citizens in places like Kansas, people choke up and sometimes even cry. They just can’t comprehend it. It is so different from the lies they were told about us and how we’re supposed to be evil.”

Hmm, you mean lies from assholes such as Kerry, Murtha, Obama, et al. (leftscum all) decrying how our troops intentionally target, bomb, and/or butcher Iraqi civilians en masses? In another day and age, such clear treason would have consequences. Sigh.

528 MoonbatBane  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 7:49:23am

re: #384 bikermailman

Just because they. hate. Bush. If we had a President Gore or Kerry, this just wouldn't be happening.

You bet it wouldn't because we would have tried to "dialogue" with the Taliban and AQ, figure out what we did wrong, grovel, curtail American influence in the world, etc. -- basically, just folded.

Remember: The American and international left wants American and liberal (in the classic sense) Democracy gutted. It's the major impediment to trying to institute their socialist "Utopia" -- with them at the top, of course. The fact that most of them would be first against the wall is well beyond their narcicistic comprehension, as is the fact that previous attempts to institute "Utopias" only resulted in suffering, misery, and over 100,000,000 people killed by their own governments in the 20h century.

529 Tenacious  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 8:01:02am

I listened to Medved read this yesterday. As he read through the part describing the soccer match, I wondered. . .can you imagine MSM t.v. crews there to cover this story? Why weren't they there?

This is compelling stuff. Donate to Totten, he's helping us win the war.

530 trailortrash  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 8:05:29am

i showed my wife this article last night, she couldnt stop reading and let my dinner burn, Damn you totten lol ;)
i sure do wish more of these stories would hit MSM.
just a couple would be enough to wake many people up top the conditions our boys are fighting and winning under, not just enemy fire but ignorance of our true intentions and brainwashed people...

531 trailortrash  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 8:06:05am

woops-- top = to

532 opnion  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 8:33:04am

This just cannot be. The Dems said so. no military solution is possible.
Wait, huh? Oh right, Schummer said that Anbar is now peaceful .
not beause of the Surge of course, but in spite of it. See the Warlords are doing it. Get it?
See they really do support the troops. Just can't give them any credit.
They do not support the troops. They actually look down on their betters.
The Republicans should throw down the gauntlet and call the Dems on their defeatism and disrespect for our troops. make the election a referendum.

533 U.S. 395  Fri, Sep 21, 2007 1:08:53am

re: #370 song_and_dance_man

re: #346 U.S. 395

re: #337 song_and_dance_man
re: #324 U.S. 395

One of my favorite highways. Leads to the eastern Sierras.

Yes, I want my ashes scattered along it, all the way up 168. Doesn't get any better.
I spent many years hiking to the east of 395. From Cottonwood Lakes to Humphreys Basin. Mt. Whitney is still a highlight for me as well as the White Mountains and seeing Methusela (the oldest living thing known to man, and west of the 395).

Yes, both east and west. Can't decide which I love more, 168W or 168E.
Wasn't sure of your punctuation, but for others who care to try to find it, Methuselah is east of 395. An amazing and humbling sight, once you view it and its brethren. Last time there in Nov. '05, took the long way around. Some treacherous ice on shady parts of the path. Saw very large mountain lion tracks along the path. The weather was cold and no one else on the path. A peak experience. If only there were a way to make a climate-appropriate hologram and visit again and again to recharge the batteries.


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