Our 10-day forecast: extended seething, with a 70% chance of rioting and murder by next Friday.

Ha!

PB XVI was a Professor of Theology. I'd sort of imagine he might have more than a clue about islam. A whole lot more. Maybe at 80 years of age he's deciding it's now or never for him to speak up?

How refreshing. Keep up the good work, Your Holiness.

Pope to Muslims: Quit Treating us like s**t...

A poll earlier this year of more than 1,000 young adult British Muslims found that 36 per cent believe those who convert to another faith should be punished by death.

No compulsion?

I posted this on the last thread, in case anyone missed it. MB4 from HA passed it along.

I, or rather the Lord, beseech you as Christ’s heralds to publish this everywhere and to persuade all people of whatever rank, foot-soldiers and knights, poor and rich, to carry aid promptly to those Christians and to destroy that vile race from the lands of our friends. I say this to those who are present, it meant also for those who are absent. Moreover, Christ commands it.

- Pope Urban II

Kostards begin hurling vicious, obscene invective at the Pope in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...

God bless Pope Benedict. He is the best thing to happen to the Catholic Church in almost 2,000 years.

Right on Benny!

Saudis boycott stores selling Catholic merchandise.

Sales seem unaffected.

The Pope sure is a bold speaker of truth for being an old man.

/unlike Jimmuh Cawtah

re: #8 WimbledonWomble

God bless Pope Benedict. He is the best thing to happen to the Catholic Church in almost 2,000 years.

Indeed my friend.

You go, right on your Holiness. I think he was Pope John Paul II's secretary of state or foreign minister. so I'll bet he has come up against the Oppression by Islam before. He sure did when USSR was trying to squelch "Solidarity" and Other Polish freedom fighters.

Popcorn, anyone?

This ought to be entertaining...

re: #1 m

Our 10-day forecast: extended seething, with a 70% chance of rioting and murder by next Friday.

Ha!

But, but, Islam is a peaceful religion cult. We long to embrace murder the infidels.
/did I say somrthing wrong?

I read the Daily Mail's report. I still want to see the text of what the Pope said, instead of some journalist's paraphrase. If anyone knows of a link to such, TIA.

I bet he dosen`t get an invite to speak at Columbia!

Benedict XVI attacked Muslim nations where Christians are either persecuted or given the status of second-class citizens under the Shariah Islamic law. He also defended the rights of Muslims to convert to Christianity, an act which warrants the death penalty in many Islamic countries.

Long live Benedict XVI!

I pray the jihadis refrain from killing nuns this time. Bunch of f*cking animals...

re: #17 gibsonz

I bet he dosen`t get an invite to speak at Columbia!

Nor a Nobel Prize nomination.

Pope Benedict the XVI is working on pulling Europe back from the Isalm-abyss.

My #15 PIMF
somrthing = something
D'oh!

re: #8 WimbledonWomble

God bless Pope Benedict. He is the best thing to happen to the Catholic Church in almost 2,000 years.

There have been some excellent ones here and there. My hope is that His All-Holiness is in their number.

Declear the cursade and untie?
Here's the full text of the speech:
[Link: www.oecumene.radiovaticana.org...]
In English, to boot.

How dare Benedict say something true about Islam!

(bright side: at least he didn't make any "Muhammad cat" jokes)

Charles,

You should develop an application that resembles a weather forcast prediction chart for your home page, but instead of weather, have it feature current RoP action and a Predicted Seething Index.™

You know what this means, don't you?

Islamic Rage Boy!

re: #3 Pope Insouciance IV

How refreshing. Keep up the good work, Your Holiness.

ROFLMAO!

God, I love Benedict! Almost enough to make me Catholic.

I like this Pope.

He condemns evil in dar al Islam.

AND he condemns the evil of abortion here at home.

A man of principle who takes on Islam and the Left.

Timed well. He makes the comments so that they hit the news cycle after Friday's prayers. This will give the debate a week to grow before next Friday's prayers. Let it brew and give nuns and priests some time to be ready. Batten the hatches.

I hope the Pope gains the moral strength to visit Catholic communities in predominantly Islamic countries. At some point, all of us who love freedom must be willing to put our lives on the line.

re: #21 Pro-Bush Canuck

Nor a Nobel Prize nomination.
---
You can bet that`s out the window!

#31 Pro-Bush Canuck
Amen!

didn't we have that with the car-swarm pathology of the Pals?

Well, the pope holds no sway over me but, I do appreciate his .02.

Good one. I like this Pope better than the previous one.

Am I missing something in that report in the Daily Mail? I mean, aren't the first two paragraphs just the Daily Mail saying he said that stuff? I don't see any reference to Islam in the actual quotes from the Pope.

?

re: #33 Timbre

That would almost be certain death. No amount of security could keep him safe in countries like Pakistan, Iraq, Jordan etc...

Somewhere, Oriana Fallacci is smiling.

re: #37 MandyManners

Well, the pope holds no sway over me but, I do appreciate his .02.

Butt, Mandy,
If the Pope had tight a butt, would it drive you nuts?

re: #38 Fjordman

Good one. I like this Pope better than the previous one.

Me too. He's sticking it to Islam when all the craven Western politicians just smile and usher murderous tyrants around Turtle Bay.

re: #40 WeaselZipper

You are right. And that is my point. Sometimes the fatal has to be done to save innocent life.

WOW

Look at how the AP interpreted this!

[Link: ap.google.com...]

OT, Kind of:
Florida man says he was Tasered while holding Koran.
Don't taser me, infidel!

Police respond to report of a man with a gun and drugs, this genius won't take his hand out of his shirt when ordered to, and is outraged that police took exception to that behavior.

re: #41 Occasional Reader

Somewhere, Oriana Fallacci is smiling.

Let's just hope that somewhere doesn't feature a lake of fire...

She was an atheist.

Um, ...

Not a lot of nuance in what is written there.

There is definitely going to be a response and an innocent person, or persons, will be hurt it. And any more than one is affirmation of the first.

I didn't expect this to come out but I guess that he has had enough of the persecution(?) of the followers of Jesus currently living in Iraq. I believe that he recently snubbed Rice over this issue. No audience, just a telephone call with #2.

ooo there's some "liberation theology" USA hating bishops very, very unhappy with their pontiff about now.

stew in it you kum-ba-ya singing idiots

re: #45 WeaselZipper

WOW

Look at how the AP interpreted this!

[Link: ap.google.com...]

That's my point W Zip, I don't see any mention of Islam from the Pope - you don't suppose the Daily Mail is "editorializing" ?

VATICAN CITY (AP) — Democratic societies have the right to defend themselves against terrorism but must also respect laws and human rights — or they risk endangering the very freedoms they want to protect, Pope Benedict XVI said Friday.

"In democratic systems, the use of force in a manner contrary to the principles of a constitutional state can never be justified," the pope said at an audience with members of the Centrist Democrat International, an association of center-right parties from around the world.

"Terrorism is a serious problem whose perpetrators often claim to act in God's name and harbor an inexcusable contempt for human life," Benedict said.

The pope said that some terrorist networks justify their actions by "shamelessly" exploiting the charge that society has forgotten God, and he said that a greater respect for religion could help counter that accusation.

"Society naturally has a right to defend itself," but the struggle against terrorism must respect moral and legal norms, the pope said.

"How can we claim to protect democracy if we threaten its very foundations?" Benedict said. "It is necessary both to keep careful watch over the security of civil society and its citizens while at the same time safeguarding the inalienable rights of all."

The pope did not mention specific countries or people.

Benedict urged the politicians to spread values he said are being endangered by changes in their communities. He urged them to oppose abortion, divorce and ideologies that view financial gain as the only good.

The pope also spoke out in defense of religious freedom, which he said includes the right to choose one's faith.

"The exercise of this freedom also includes the right to change religion, which should be guaranteed not only legally, but also in daily practice," he said. "All authentically religious traditions must be allowed to manifest their own identity publicly, free from any pressure to hide or disguise it."

Sensitivity to Christian proselytizing is widespread among Muslims, Hindu nationalists and some other religious groups that fear losing adherents.

Under a widespread interpretation of Islamic law, converting from Islam is punishable by death, while Hindu nationalists accuse Christian missionaries of luring poor people away from Hinduism, India's largest faith, through offers of money or coercion — a charge churches have denied.

Unreal, AP don't want their allies looking foolish again

46 Jack Reacher they need to ditch the Taser. The 9 millimeter works just fine.

If this turns out to be a PR disaster, Pope Benedict the umpteenth can claim his comments were "satirical in nature".

AP don't want their allies looking foolish againDemocrats?

45, 51 Weasel Zipper Abu Ghraib! GITMO!

How about...Beslan, you bastards?

re: #50 ornery elephant

It's not that hard to figure out who he's talking about. I'm sure he's not a huge fan of creating bloody riots. Subtle is the name of the game when dealing with the ROP.

re: #46 Jack Reacher

That guy doesn't have a girlfriend that goes to MIT does he?

Is anyone watching Bill Maher? Jeanene Garafalo and salaman Rushdie are his guests. Its hard to stomach...

re: #58 tarkus

Is anyone watching Bill Maher? Jeanene Garafalo and salaman Rushdie are his guests. Its hard to stomach...

You are watching that on purpose? Are you part of some high blood-pressure medication study or something?

re: #47 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #41 Occasional Reader

Somewhere, Oriana Fallacci is smiling.

Let's just hope that somewhere doesn't feature a lake of fire...

She was an atheist.

That's a really crappy thing to say.

Will anyone be willing to hold their breath while we await the ACLU's support for the Pope's advocacy of the principles of freedom of religion and individual liberty.

My suggestion is that he had batter improve his security because there are non-Christians people who might attempt to murder him and the supporters of those who will try to murder him will be invited to speak at prestigious liberal schools.

Funny way of demonstrating their support for free speech, freedom of religion and the exercise of liberty isn't it?

God have pity on Liberals and their sympathizers. The Islamo-Nazis wont.

[Link: www.thenoseonyourface.com...]

re: #60 Charles

re: #47 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #41 Occasional Reader

Somewhere, Oriana Fallacci is smiling.

Let's just hope that somewhere doesn't feature a lake of fire...
She was an atheist.

That's a really crappy thing to say.

Perhaps so. But choices matter.

i applaud his courage , ( ummm,i'm slightly annoyed that his deed, because it's so rare, gets my applause. if more leaders stood up, we could shut down this evil.)

God bless Pope Benedict XVI

May he continue to speak the truth, in defiance of those who would prefer not to hear it -- and to those who will not listen to it.

There are a billion pairs of ears awaiting the word of THE LORD.

.

re: #47 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #41 Occasional Reader

Somewhere, Oriana Fallacci is smiling.

Let's just hope that somewhere doesn't feature a lake of fire...

She was an atheist.

she was a christian atheist.

#60 Charles
Do you ever sleep? It's almost 9 pm.
What time does Stinky start his shift?

re: #46 Jack Reacher

OT, Kind of:
Florida man says he was Tasered while holding Koran.
Don't taser me, infidel!

Police respond to report of a man with a gun and drugs, this genius won't take his hand out of his shirt when ordered to, and is outraged that police took exception to that behavior.

It's a Taser - a TaserTaser weekend!
Here a Tase
There a Tase
Everywhere a Tase Tase.

re: #63 Pro-Bush Canuck

She was a warrior for good. She has a good soul. I wouldn't worry about her.

re: #63 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #60 Charles

re: #47 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #41 Occasional Reader

Somewhere, Oriana Fallacci is smiling.

Let's just hope that somewhere doesn't feature a lake of fire...
She was an atheist.

That's a really crappy thing to say.

Perhaps so. But choices matter.

And your choice to post that ugly sentiment is very telling.

The thing about Popes I don't like is that modern Popes are politicians first and Pontiffs second.

re: #66 nyc redneck

re: #47 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #41 Occasional Reader

Somewhere, Oriana Fallacci is smiling.

Let's just hope that somewhere doesn't feature a lake of fire...
She was an atheist.

she was a christian atheist.

Heh. Pretty much the definition of self-contradictory.

I know she was a good person and Charles was correct that the remark was insensitive. As a Christian I am BOMBARDED by anti-Christian remarks and innuendo every day of the week, especially in a godless, decadent leftist society like Canada. I should no better than to stoop to that level.

Come unto to me, ye that labor, and I will give you rest.

re: #70 Charles

re: #63 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #60 Charles

re: #47 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #41 Occasional Reader

Somewhere, Oriana Fallacci is smiling.

Let's just hope that somewhere doesn't feature a lake of fire...
She was an atheist.

That's a really crappy thing to say.

Perhaps so. But choices matter.

And your choice to post that ugly sentiment is very telling.

don't worry, oriana referred to herself, often as a christian atheist. i get that completely. in fact she was not an atheist at all , really.

#71 maddogg
Popes used to be "conflicted" people. The Catholic religion ain't perfect, but it has changed (for the better) with the times. My $0.02.

I'll say this for the man. His speech writer did one heck of a job saying what the story in the Daily Mail said he said when in actuality he never "said" it.

A quick search for "Islam", "Muslim", "Allah" and "Moh" turned up nothing. He doesn't even have to say that it's "satirical".

- Thanks, EC Marm. The text is better than any write-up.

re: #70 Charles

re: #63 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #60 Charles

re: #47 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #41 Occasional Reader

Somewhere, Oriana Fallacci is smiling.

Let's just hope that somewhere doesn't feature a lake of fire...
She was an atheist.

That's a really crappy thing to say.

Perhaps so. But choices matter.

And your choice to post that ugly sentiment is very telling.

Charles, I apologize for the remark. Christians believe that atheists spend eternity without God. That's just the way it is with us.

re: #61 shanec99

Hey, man. I wanted to apologize for gettin' in yer ass about that bullshit editing of posts thing you were doing the other night. In truth, it was annoying the shit out of me, but my scorn came from a bad place in my world, not yours.

re: #59 Pro-Bush Canuck

Well, I read the transcript, and it's too nuanced for my tastes...I do think he's tossing the Gitmo bone to what moonbats may be in attendance, but the terrorism comments are pretty clear, I suppose. I wonder if the pope thinks Mo was the false prophet? Impossible to get an answer I guess.

For perspective read what the Pope said yesterday. Good context for this story..

Ms. Fallaci said of the Pope: 'I feel less alone when I read the books of Ratzinger.'

I had asked Ms. Fallaci whether there was any contemporary leader she admired, and Pope Benedict XVI was evidently a man in whom she reposed some trust. 'I am an atheist, and if an atheist and a pope think the same things, there must be something true. It's that simple! There must be some human truth here that is beyond religion.'

Source: an interview with Ms. Fallaci by Tunku Varadarjan, in Opinion Journal in 2005.

re: #75 Abu Bin Squid

#71 maddogg
Popes used to be "conflicted" people. The Catholic religion ain't perfect, but it has changed (for the better) with the times. My $0.02.

I did not mean to criticize Catholics, I respect them. The Pope seems to have stones, after all.

Wow, the Pope comes out against shooting nuns in the back. Profile in Courage. That only took a couple years...

I'm not Catholic, but methinks Pope Benedict is going to need some support in the coming weeks. You can email your messages of support at benedictxvi@vatican.va. Prayers, well, you know how to use those. I hope. If not, then perhaps you might learn in the coming years.
/just sayin'

re: #80 funky chicken

Well, I read the transcript, and it's too nuanced for my tastes...I do think he's tossing the Gitmo bone to what moonbats may be in attendance, but the terrorism comments are pretty clear, I suppose. I wonder if the pope thinks Mo was the false prophet? Impossible to get an answer I guess.

This is very silly. If you want to know what the Pope thinks, read the Catholic Catechism, and Catholic Doctrine in general.

Of course Mohammed is a false prophet. There's no other way you can put it and still be a Catholic.

"she was a christian atheist."

She was a hero. And remains so.

It took her a lifetime of public examination to recognize the moral strength and overwhelming value of Western civilization, jurisprudence, and ultimately validity.

Her books are masterpieces in defense of Western thought, morals, community.

You bring the name of FALLACI to this thread for what?

An atheist? In her early years? BUT A GODLESS PAGAN -- NO!

She was secularist. Who saw the sacredness of God. And kept it so.

.

[Link: 212.77.1.245...]

The official version with the original Italian on top and English transltion below.

This Pope ain't no dope.

re: #87 Dad O' Blondes

She was a hero. And remains so.

I agree completely. If I had thought before firing off the post that caused this ruckus I would have emphasized the aspect that I hope--and pray--that she is NOT in a bad place, despite any protestations of atheism on her part.

re: #89 zombie

This Pope ain't no dope.

I feel a song coming on! ;)

Houa-AHHH!
Not that I'm a fan of Popes in general, or this one in particular, but Ballzzonya!

Uh, Miguel, did I somehow say something offensive? I went through RCIA by the way, got to read lots of Catholic doctrine. I left the church because of kum-ba-yah guitar masses and other stuff.

Did I need to put THE FALSE PROPHET in all caps or something? You know, the big one in Revelations?

re: #89 zombie

But he's talking to 'Eurabia'.

sheesh I'm leaving before any more curses and hellfire come raining down.

re: #93 funky chicken

Uh, Miguel, did I somehow say something offensive? I went through RCIA by the way, got to read lots of Catholic doctrine. I left the church because of kum-ba-yah guitar masses and other stuff.

Did I need to put THE FALSE PROPHET in all caps or something? You know, the big one in Revelations?

I just said "silly". I didn't say you were offensive ;)

re: #86 MigueldowninMexico

re: #80 funky chicken

Well, I read the transcript, and it's too nuanced for my tastes...I do think he's tossing the Gitmo bone to what moonbats may be in attendance, but the terrorism comments are pretty clear, I suppose. I wonder if the pope thinks Mo was the false prophet? Impossible to get an answer I guess.

This is very silly. If you want to know what the Pope thinks, read the Catholic Catechism, and Catholic Doctrine in general.

Of course Mohammed is a false prophet. There's no other way you can put it and still be a Catholic.

You might be surprised. A couple of months ago, I was delivering mail to the local Catholic church, while listening to Medved, Hannity, whomever. The muslims were seething about who knows what at this point, and I mentioned it when I was in the office. The youth pastor said something to the effect of 'well, there's really no difference between Catholics and muslims, we believe the same basic things...' After I put my eyeballs back in, I gave a brief religion 101 lesson to this Catholic youth pastor on their denial of the divinity of Christ, the denial of the Crucifixion, denial of the Resurrection. Didn't have time for more, so I left.

re: #93 funky chicken

Uh, Miguel, did I somehow say something offensive? I went through RCIA by the way, got to read lots of Catholic doctrine. I left the church because of kum-ba-yah guitar masses and other stuff.

Did I need to put THE FALSE PROPHET in all caps or something? You know, the big one in Revelations?

No offense, hon, but I read it the same way Miguel did - I thought "of course the Pope thinks..." too.

Then again, he's no Urban II.

Urban II at the Council of Clermont.

Bad day at Black Rock.

re: #72 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #66 nyc redneck

re: #47 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #41 Occasional Reader

Somewhere, Oriana Fallacci is smiling.

Let's just hope that somewhere doesn't feature a lake of fire...
She was an atheist.

she was a christian atheist.

Heh. Pretty much the definition of self-contradictory.

I know she was a good person and Charles was correct that the remark was insensitive. As a Christian I am BOMBARDED by anti-Christian remarks and innuendo every day of the week, especially in a godless, decadent leftist society like Canada. I should no better than to stoop to that level.

that's ok. we're all trying to figure it out. when i read her words that she was a christian atheist i felt like she was speaking to me.

re: #49 funky chicken

ooo there's some "liberation theology" USA hating bishops very, very unhappy with their pontiff about now.

stew in it you kum-ba-ya singing idiots

Liberation Theology--you mean Army Chaplains? ;)

The main reason I never go to church is that they all seem to interpret Christs teachings from the moonbat point of view. I just can't stand it and leave prior to tearing the Minister a new one.

re: #98 bikermailman

re: #86 MigueldowninMexico

re: #80 funky chicken

Well, I read the transcript, and it's too nuanced for my tastes...I do think he's tossing the Gitmo bone to what moonbats may be in attendance, but the terrorism comments are pretty clear, I suppose. I wonder if the pope thinks Mo was the false prophet? Impossible to get an answer I guess.

This is very silly. If you want to know what the Pope thinks, read the Catholic Catechism, and Catholic Doctrine in general.
Of course Mohammed is a false prophet. There's no other way you can put it and still be a Catholic.

You might be surprised. A couple of months ago, I was delivering mail to the local Catholic church, while listening to Medved, Hannity, whomever. The muslims were seething about who knows what at this point, and I mentioned it when I was in the office. The youth pastor said something to the effect of 'well, there's really no difference between Catholics and muslims, we believe the same basic things...' After I put my eyeballs back in, I gave a brief religion 101 lesson to this Catholic youth pastor on their denial of the divinity of Christ, the denial of the Crucifixion, denial of the Resurrection. Didn't have time for more, so I left.

Vatican II strikes again.

All this talk about Christians and Atheists...is it OK for a Jew to enter here?

I promise to be good.

re: #72 Pro-Bush Canuck

As a Christian, don't you think God would forgive an atheist for lack of faith? If it's a sin, it's been forgiven. At least that's what I believe as a Christian.

re: #98 bikermailman

re: #86 MigueldowninMexico

re: #80 funky chicken

Well, I read the transcript, and it's too nuanced for my tastes...I do think he's tossing the Gitmo bone to what moonbats may be in attendance, but the terrorism comments are pretty clear, I suppose. I wonder if the pope thinks Mo was the false prophet? Impossible to get an answer I guess.

This is very silly. If you want to know what the Pope thinks, read the Catholic Catechism, and Catholic Doctrine in general.Of course Mohammed is a false prophet. There's no other way you can put it and still be a Catholic.

You might be surprised. A couple of months ago, I was delivering mail to the local Catholic church, while listening to Medved, Hannity, whomever. The muslims were seething about who knows what at this point, and I mentioned it when I was in the office. The youth pastor said something to the effect of 'well, there's really no difference between Catholics and muslims, we believe the same basic things...' After I put my eyeballs back in, I gave a brief religion 101 lesson to this Catholic youth pastor on their denial of the divinity of Christ, the denial of the Crucifixion, denial of the Resurrection. Didn't have time for more, so I left.

Great! We should always face the moonbat clergy, of which there is a sizable amount in the USA, and TELL THEM THE TRUTH, because they seem to forget it.
Here in my town we had a communist bishop for 20 years. Some of the priests ended up saying that God dosn't exist, that sinning is no problem as long as you fight for "social justice" and all kinds of outrageous concepts. And I did like you did, I faced them quite a few times and got them to shot their snout more than once. ¡Disgusting people.
Thank God, Liberation Theology has lost most of it's gas by now. It's a baloon in frank plunge.

This guy is just askin' for it!

re: #106 DesertSage

You're at LGF- of course you're welcome. :)

re: #101 zombie

I try to resist the urge for self-congratuiation, but now that I look at it, "Bad day at Black Rock" in reference to the Council of Clermont has to be the most multi-layered cultural pun of the night!

uh-oh, even the AP made a questionable remark that could induce seething..

Sensitivity to Christian proselytizing is widespread among Muslims, Hindu nationalists and some other religious groups that fear losing adherents.

Fear?

Miguel: Check out the Nostra Aetate about relations with Islam. The Vatican has to repudiate that part, or the RCC won't be able to defend anything against Islam.

re: #106 DesertSage
yeah - how about an atheist jew? Can I join in here?

re: #105 Cattt

re: #98 bikermailman

re: #86 MigueldowninMexico

re: #80 funky chicken

Well, I read the transcript, and it's too nuanced for my tastes...I do think he's tossing the Gitmo bone to what moonbats may be in attendance, but the terrorism comments are pretty clear, I suppose. I wonder if the pope thinks Mo was the false prophet? Impossible to get an answer I guess.

This is very silly. If you want to know what the Pope thinks, read the Catholic Catechism, and Catholic Doctrine in general.
Of course Mohammed is a false prophet. There's no other way you can put it and still be a Catholic.

You might be surprised. A couple of months ago, I was delivering mail to the local Catholic church, while listening to Medved, Hannity, whomever. The muslims were seething about who knows what at this point, and I mentioned it when I was in the office. The youth pastor said something to the effect of 'well, there's really no difference between Catholics and muslims, we believe the same basic things...' After I put my eyeballs back in, I gave a brief religion 101 lesson to this Catholic youth pastor on their denial of the divinity of Christ, the denial of the Crucifixion, denial of the Resurrection. Didn't have time for more, so I left.

Vatican II strikes again.

I'm only vaguely familiar with it, basically back in the 60s, bunch of (what was it said above? kumbaya) feel-good modern stuff, some of it leading to homosexuals in the clergy? Feel free to correct and enlighten a non-Catholic, please.

re: #25 EC Marm

Declear the cursade and untie?
Here's the full text of the speech:
[Link: www.oecumene.radiovaticana.org...]
In English, to boot.

Thank you, EC Marm.

Alas, the Pope does not speak out about Islamic Repression. He names neither Islam nor Muslims. He speaks only of "terrorism".

Terrorism... that ineffable thingie. Meanwhile, we must maintain "due respect for religion."

This is hardly the stuff of a challenge to Islam.

Rare is the day that I'll favor a British press report over an American one. And as a matter of fact I can't even bring myself to do it now.

I think both reports exemplify the inclinations of their publishers: The Brits, toward muck-raking and inflamation, and the American one toward left-leaning pablum.

re: #106 DesertSage

All this talk about Christians and Atheists...is it OK for a Jew to enter here?

I promise to be good.

Jews are always welcome, in my book. Well, except the Chomsky types, but that's due to their ideology, not their religion.

This Pope's got big balls. He must be channeling John Paul II.

re: #114 dimestorenovel

re: #106 DesertSage
yeah - how about an atheist jew? Can I join in here?

What about me -- an agnostic epicure?

re: #102 nyc redneck

re: #72 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #66 nyc redneck

re: #47 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #41 Occasional Reader

Somewhere, Oriana Fallacci is smiling.

Let's just hope that somewhere doesn't feature a lake of fire...
She was an atheist.

she was a christian atheist.

Heh. Pretty much the definition of self-contradictory.
I know she was a good person and Charles was correct that the remark was insensitive. As a Christian I am BOMBARDED by anti-Christian remarks and innuendo every day of the week, especially in a godless, decadent leftist society like Canada. I should no better than to stoop to that level.

that's ok. we're all trying to figure it out. when i read her words that she was a christian atheist i felt like she was speaking to me.

It is highly complex of course. It is almost impossible to discuss this without pissing people off. I firmly believe that atheism (not any individual atheist) is a great evil -- the greatest possible evil in fact. I don't think individuals who are atheists are evil people, however. How can this be? Well the closest I can explain is in terms of someone who decides that they don't want to have children. It is a perfectly normal and respectable choice to remain childless, and nobody owes anyone an explanation for that choice. It is far, far different however if someone advocates childlessness as a general principle (which in fact some "deep ecologist" greens actually do). To advocate childlessness as a social norm is a penultimate form of evil--it is to advocate the murder of mankind. Similarly, people like Richard Dawkins who advocate atheism for all of Western society as a general principle are preternaturally evil in my estimation. Someone who is simply an athiest privately for whatever reason can be a perfectily wonderful human being, as Oriana Fallaci certainly was (she never advocated atheism as a general creed in the manner of the modern Western intellectual barbarians).

re: #115 bikermailman

Absolutely. I had those in my town here.

Jews are always welcome, in my book. Well, except the Chomsky types, but that's due to their ideology, not their religion.

Chomsky is the prototype of a suicide Jew.

I have to go spend some quality time with my cats.

Just wanted to say - no matter whether you are an athiest, religious, spiritual, or whatever - we here at LGF are comrades (pardon the commie word, but it's a meaningful word).

See y'all later - the Siamese is getting restive.

Has the seethe-a-palooza '07 World Tour commenced?

re: #108 MigueldowninMexico

I went to the Meet the Muslim night at my Parish hall and after sitting through an hour of yadda yadda yadda, I got to ask him what Islam says about love your enemy, meaning the people who have no interest of ever converting to Islam. He lost the crowd of mostly old codgers dancing around that one. Ha.

re: #115 bikermailman

OK. One more.

I normally don't link Wiki, but they have a pretty good piece on Vatican II (at least it was ok the last time I looked):

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Chomsky was an asshole, regardless of religion or gene pool.

re: #107 Sharmuta

re: #72 Pro-Bush Canuck

As a Christian, don't you think God would forgive an atheist for lack of faith? If it's a sin, it's been forgiven. At least that's what I believe as a Christian.

Well obviously I'm not God so I certainly don't know for sure. I do think most Christians would say that throughout all 200 centuries of Christian history faith in Jesus Christ as Divine Savior has been non-negotiable.

re: #124 Cattt

I have to go spend some quality time with my cats.

Isn't that already a rotating title?

re: #116 rtheyserius

er.."terrorism" is generally meant to refer to Inbred Koranic Imbecility without, of course directly naming it...

re: #126 Mich-again

re: #108 MigueldowninMexico

I went to the Meet the Muslim night at my Parish hall and after sitting through an hour of yadda yadda yadda, I got to ask him what Islam says about love your enemy, meaning the people who have no interest of ever converting to Islam. He lost the crowd of mostly old codgers dancing around that one. Ha.

Hahaha! Perfect! :)

re: #120 zombie

re: #114 dimestorenovel

re: #106 DesertSage
yeah - how about an atheist jew? Can I join in here?

What about me -- an agnostic epicure?

Let's just say that this is a big tent. Far bigger tent than the Donks claim to have. Christians, Jews, atheists, agnostics, all welcome on the Right, and for sure all welcome on LGF.

It is highly complex of course. It is almost impossible to discuss this without pissing people off. I firmly believe that atheism (not any individual atheist) is a great evil -- the greatest possible evil in fact.

The first commandment is "Thou shall not use the name of the LORD your God in vain." Dennis Prager interprets, and I agree, that this means do not do what God forbids while ascribing it to him. In other words, worse than atheism is to do evil and say God told you to. Not only are you doing evil then, but causing people to turn away from the idea of God.

So Islam is worse than atheism in my understanding.

re: #49 funky chicken

ooo there's some "liberation theology" USA hating bishops very, very unhappy with their pontiff about now.

stew in it you kum-ba-ya singing idiots

Amen to that, brother!

I'm going to email our diocesan newspaper, The Texas Catholic Heretic, and ask them to take me off their mailing list. It's chock full of liberal claptrap. This week, they have a hagiographic story about some guy on death row here in Texas, John Amador. Of course, no mention of Amador's victims. He robbed and murdered a taxi driver in San Antonio thirteen years ago, while he was on parole from the California youth system, for involvement in the murder of his stepfather. Made me want to puke.

If President Bush had made this exact speech, ap and the rest of the mindless media would be condemning him for months.

re: #124 Cattt

See y'all later - the Siamese is getting restive.

/leave it alone, Noam.

re: #129 Pro-Bush Canuck

Well obviously I'm not God so I certainly don't know for sure.

Now thats a rotating title.

re: #128 maddogg

Chomsky was an asshole, regardless of religion or gene pool.

Was? I thought he was still kicking around?

re: #135 Ward Cleaver

Oh yeah, the guy was executed, BTW, on August 29th.

/yesss!

Wayyy OT... (don't know where else to post this)

Y'all GOTTA see this story.

Headline:
'God' apparently responds to lawsuit

Notice, too, the odd pic at left side -- the man who filed the original lawsuit (with a portable fan behind his head).

:D

re: #135 Ward Cleaver

Disgusting.

The way to tell if a leader has the stones to actually lead: when someone finally states the obvious, the war on terror is actually a war on Islam.

Thats when you can say they "get it".

I don't concern myself worrying what other people think about God. But if you aim to convert others lead by deeds and not words.

re: #134 nikis-knight

It is highly complex of course. It is almost impossible to discuss this without pissing people off. I firmly believe that atheism (not any individual atheist) is a great evil -- the greatest possible evil in fact.

The first commandment is "Thou shall not use the name of the LORD your God in vain." Dennis Prager interprets, and I agree, that this means do not do what God forbids while ascribing it to him. In other words, worse than atheism is to do evil and say God told you to. Not only are you doing evil then, but causing people to turn away from the idea of God.

So Islam is worse than atheism in my understanding.

Interesting perspective. I suppose I would say that the militant athiest (Dawkins, et al) use the Lord's name in vain in a most extreme manner: by attempting to negate His very existence.

I certainly agree that Islamism is deeply evil, however they have not yet approached the sheer magnitude of evil that resulted from the world's lamentable 20th century experiments with mandatory, state-enforced athiesm.

re: #137 Noam Sayin'

re: #124 Cattt

See y'all later - the Siamese is getting restive.

/leave it alone, Noam.

Heh. You had that thought too. Great Minds Smartalecks Think Alike

re: #139 bikermailman

re: #128 maddogg

Chomsky was an asshole, regardless of religion or gene pool.

Was? I thought he was still kicking around?

He is dead in my book. Just like Marx.

re: #129 Pro-Bush Canuck

Well obviously I'm not God so I certainly don't know for sure

Aha! Exactly!

I'm going to throw this quote out here, and then I'm going to give you the link:

But for Muslim teaching, God is absolutely transcendent. His will is not bound up with any of our categories, even that of rationality.[6] Here Khoury quotes a work of the noted French Islamist R. Arnaldez, who points out that Ibn Hazm went so far as to state that God is not bound even by his own word, and that nothing would oblige him to reveal the truth to us. Were it God's will, we would even have to practise idolatry.[7]

That quote is from Benedict's speech at Regensburg which originally set off the firestorm. The passage preceding the one I quoted describes the Christian beliefs regarding the nature of God.

The money quote is this:

not to act in accordance with reason is contrary to God's nature.

The very fact that the mohammedans ignored that passage, and stepped on some long since dead Byzantine Emperor is telling.

I think (1) either their reading comprehension sucks, or (2) they have no leg to stand on.

re: #141 leepro

Wayyy OT... (don't know where else to post this)

Y'all GOTTA see this story.

Headline:
'God' apparently responds to lawsuit

Notice, too, the odd pic at left side -- the man who filed the original lawsuit (with a portable fan behind his head).

:D

Loved that...God apparently has a sense of humor!

re: #108 MigueldowninMexico

It's a baloon in frank plunge.

Um, you wanna 'splain that, Miguel? It lost someting in the translation...

JAFLW

Funny how if you wanted to spell George W. Bush backwards the first three letters would be Hsu. ha.

Rove you bastid.

Well obviously I'm not God

I am!

re: #149 dimestorenovel

re: #129 Pro-Bush Canuck

Well obviously I'm not God so I certainly don't know for sure

Aha! Exactly!

Definition of the word "faith".

#129 Pro-Bush Canuck

Well obviously I'm not God so I certainly don't know for sure

Welcome to Club Agnostic! Always nice to greet new members.

song_and_dance_man

I though you were a nice person up until now.

Calling the Pope "the pimp of Rome" is so extraordinarely offensive that either you take that back or I will consider you my personal enemy form now on.

Well? What will it be?

re: #121 Pro-Bush Canuck

i agree, oriana fallaci was a wonderful humanbeing.

Next time I catch open registration I'm going to claim the nic God for my sock puppet.

re: #154 Fjordman

I've been looking for you...

re: #24 David IV of Georgia

re: #8 WimbledonWomble

God bless Pope Benedict. He is the best thing to happen to the Catholic Church in almost 2,000 years.

There have been some excellent ones here and there. My hope is that His All-Holiness is in their number.

With such a long history, there are going to be good and bad ones. You hear more about bad ones, the ones who had mistresses and children or Pius XII who didn't do anything to stand up to the Nazis. That's unfortunate, but that's the way it is. John-Paul II was a great one, who understood the evil of communism, but he never understood the evil of Islamism. He was too old, perhaps, and he wasn't enough of a historian to connect the rise of Islamist terrorism to the broader view of jihad. He instinctively knew, as a Pole, that communism was oppressive and destructive, but he never understood the dangers of rise again in the 20th century of a hyper-aggressive petro-dollar-funded Islamic jihad.

For this reason, it is so wonderful that Benedict was elected the new pope. He is a historian. He is an intellectual. He knows history and he is a thinker. More than that, he is not afraid of saying what he thinks. He is not afraid of telling the truth.

Pope Benedict is maybe the only major religious figure today who has the knowledge and confidence to state things as they are. He refers back to Byzantine emperors and makes statements about their ideas about jihad. Then he gets hammered for this. He makes a little apology at the time under duress, but then next time around again speaks his mind. He is the only major religious figure around who does not BS to appease angry Muslims. So he is one of the few defenses we have against the PC/multiculti enemies from within and the Islamists from without (and from within in the guise of CAIR et al.) that are keeping civilization standing against this unprecedented terrorist and legal assault from the forces of barbarism

And, ultimately, that is what it is all about. It's whether civilization will prevail or barbarism will win out. I just wish more "moral" leaders would stand up for civilization and against barbarism. I don't expect that much out of political leaders. They just want to get re-elected, and the left is already in the camp of returning us to the stone age where anything goes and there are no rules. But moral leaders who stand up for civilization against barbarism are few and far between, and Pope Benedict is one of the few who stands up for civilization.

re: #154 Fjordman

Well obviously I'm not God

I am!

Why, yes! I believe you are! :)

re: #142 song_and_dance_man

I'm sorry, what?

re: #154 Fjordman

Well obviously I'm not God

I am!

Hi God, welcome to LGF!

re: #152 Just Another Four-letter Word

re: #108 MigueldowninMexico

It's a baloon in frank plunge.

Um, you wanna 'splain that, Miguel? It lost someting in the translation...

JAFLW

It sinking ;)

Zombie:

Welcome to Club Agnostic! Always nice to greet new members.

When is our next meeting?

re: #166 Fjordman

How the Hell should I know?

As the founder, leader, and congregation of the First Sillyquiet Church and Cafeteria-Style Restaurant I find myself weeping for the 6,699,000,000 people who will surely suffer in the eternal pits of lime jello, instead of basking in the light of the heat lamp of salvation.

/agnostic

//LGF is the last place I would have expected to see religious narrow-mindedness on the interweb.

re: #153 Mich-again

Funny how if you wanted to spell George W. Bush backwards the first three letters would be Hsu. ha.

Rove you bastid.

Oh no, now the conspiracy kooks have something else to investigate.

re: #117 Cognito

Your disingenuousness is showing again. You can't favor the UK report over the US one?! The Daily Mail put it mostly in context- the ap was nothing but spin. Nice attempt at showing us you're critical of msm bias.

/Don't bother replying

re: #156 zombie

#129 Pro-Bush Canuck
Well obviously I'm not God so I certainly don't know for sure

Welcome to Club Agnostic! Always nice to greet new members.

Heh. I'm afraid I turned in my parking spot and keys some years ago.

Claiming to know God's mind directly is most certainly herertical. Claiming to know God in the Christian sense of experiencing Him as a spiritual reality more concerete than the cramped illusions of the empiricist's ego is another matter entirely.

Nice try though.

Ok, my favorite Pope joke.

The pope says "Remember, no kinky sex! ... Now, kiss my ring"

As for myself, I'm an odd sort of agnostic. I think there probably is a god, I just don't know if I trust the guy or not. That said Ill take Rome over Mecca any day. In the last couple of hundred years Christianity has been tamed you might say. Islam is still locked in a small, brutal, Old Testament mindset. Yea, not even close.

re: #159 Mich-again

Go for it. Don't cap it though, okay?

re: #159 Mich-again

Next time I catch open registration I'm going to claim the nic God for my sock puppet.

LOL I think it would be extra sweet if it linked to this.

Wibledown
That thing about Pius XII and the Nazis is hogwash. Bull shit.
See:
[Link: www.catholicnewsagency.com...]
And see:
[Link: www.catholicnewsagency.com...]

I have more links similar to these, if you want.
:)

re: #146 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #134 nikis-knight

It is highly complex of course. It is almost impossible to discuss this without pissing people off. I firmly believe that atheism (not any individual atheist) is a great evil -- the greatest possible evil in fact.

The first commandment is "Thou shall not use the name of the LORD your God in vain." Dennis Prager interprets, and I agree, that this means do not do what God forbids while ascribing it to him. In other words, worse than atheism is to do evil and say God told you to. Not only are you doing evil then, but causing people to turn away from the idea of God.
So Islam is worse than atheism in my understanding.

Interesting perspective. I suppose I would say that the militant athiest (Dawkins, et al) use the Lord's name in vain in a most extreme manner: by attempting to negate His very existence.

I certainly agree that Islamism is deeply evil, however they have not yet approached the sheer magnitude of evil that resulted from the world's lamentable 20th century experiments with mandatory, state-enforced athiesm.

The thing is, and I prognosticate here, I think in the coming decades (years?) we're going to see a melding of that mandatory, state enforced atheism with islam. The socialism of Europe and the Americas has, and is broken down people's religious faith, morals, work ethic, and individuality. Islam is coming in to take over, where the vacuum has been created. Islam, and the left both use a state run system where everything is dictated to the masses. The left in Western culture has simply paved the way for the new islamic masters to fill that vacuum. Multiculturalism is providing the bridge between old, Christian Western Civilization, and whatever new comes down the pike.
/sorry for the ramble

re: #172 Mr. E. Train

I think there probably is a god, I just don't know if I trust the guy or not.

Someone is dinging your comment down, and its not a Lizard. Spooky.

re: #175 MigueldowninMexico

Ditto. Complete leftists bullshit.

re: #174 ChenZhen

Is that a touch screen?

Re #123 Fjordman

"Chomsky is the prototype of a suicide Jew."

I actually prefer 'homicide Jew' since he manages to make all Jews look bad. Unfortunately people tend to jump from the specific to the general without a pause in logic. If one Jew does something bad, all Jews are bad kind of phenom. You know, 'all Jews are rich and greedy' and other myths that won't die.
If you are the Fjordman, author of the fantastic and astute blog, I want to thank you for all your work. (shameless flattery alert)

re: #131 little boomer

re: #116 rtheyserius

er.."terrorism" is generally meant to refer to Inbred Koranic Imbecility without, of course directly naming it...

It won't due. Terrorism is a tactic that can, and has been, employed by anybody.

The enemy is NOT terrorism. We need world leaders with the balls to name the enemy.

Right now, the balls we see are the equivalent of world leaders, who were facing Hitler in the 1930s, saying 'war is bad'.

It won't do.

Sharmuta,

If that's all you took away from that comment, then I'll take your suggestion; I won't bother spelling it out.

re: #176 bikermailman

Christians are certainly on the defensive, everywhere. Stating basic tenets of one's faith can get you arrested in Canada. It isn't as bad in the US yet, but give it time.

Sic transit gloria mundi

re: #169 NJDhockeyfan

re: #153 Mich-again

Funny how if you wanted to spell George W. Bush backwards the first three letters would be Hsu. ha.

Rove you bastid.

Oh no, now the conspiracy kooks have something else to investigate.

Yeah I like to feed the crickets every so often to fatten them up for the lizards.

re: #177 Racer X

LOL. Oooo. I guess I'll have to look, now...

(spelling errors aside, my point stands) :-)

re: #151 bikermailman

re: #141 leepro

Wayyy OT... (don't know where else to post this)

Y'all GOTTA see this story.

Headline:
'God' apparently responds to lawsuit

Notice, too, the odd pic at left side -- the man who filed the original lawsuit (with a portable fan behind his head).

:D

Loved that...God apparently has a sense of humor!

I thought so, too (always have, as a matter of fact!). Kinda explains #142 song_and_dance_man's disgusting attack on the Pope too. ;)

READ IT Y'ALL! It goes a lot deeper than just a funny story.

I'll say this about atheism, then I will shut up. Though I am not worthy of being judge and jury, I would say it would be better to state your an atheist than to call yourself a Christian without Christ.

Two verses, then good night:

Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

and

So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

However, Natalie still doesn't recommend atheism...

#176: The irony is that now, when we are vastly technologically superior, we are losing. When the Arabs invaded France and Charles Martel beat them back, we were clearly outnumbered. I sometimes wonder whether Westerners perform at our best when we are the underdog and have our backs against the wall.

re: #154 Fjordman

Well obviously I'm not God

I am!

Well, then will you please clean up the mess that's being made all over the ME/Europe/America/Latin America/Asia/Africa by those durned...um...er...sorry...nearly got carried away with my language in the presence of God.

re: #166 Fjordman

Zombie:

Welcome to Club Agnostic! Always nice to greet new members.

When is our next meeting?

Fjordman,

I am sure you have stated somewhere why you closed your blog, but I have not seen such a statement. So I ask: why did you close you blog? We liked your blog.

The LGF "Big Tent" for all beliefs, or lack of them, seems not to include Catholics.
Anti-Catholic bigotry pop-us with regularity around here.

It seems to be an American sport: Hate the Catholic.

How uncomfortable for Catholic lizards.

re: #174 ChenZhen

re: #159 Mich-again

Next time I catch open registration I'm going to claim the nic God for my sock puppet.

LOL I think it would be extra sweet if it linked to this.

ChenZhen addressing me? Wow I am so honored. I never had a moonbat land on my shoulder like that.

"Once, I played a Black Sabbath record at 78 speed, and I SAW GOD!
...
"Aaaww far out man!"

/cheech n chong off

re: #157 MigueldowninMexico

song_and_dance_man

I though you were a nice person up until now.

Calling the Pope "the pimp of Rome" is so extraordinarely offensive that either you take that back or I will consider you my personal enemy form now on.

Well? What will it be?

Yes, that was definitely uncalled for.

I do not mind Catholics. Went to the schools.

and that should have been you're...moving dirt has me plum wore out.

#180: I am. Thank you for kind words :-)

Probably a very good thing I'm not God. Because His thoughts are as far above mine as the heavens to the ground.

But, if I were, you could drink more without a hangover, 43 year old guys could still enjoy a boatload of jalepeños on their nachos without lower GI pain the following day, post-nasal drip would be a thing of the past, and fire ants would not exist.

As an atheist, I really have no problem with what Pro-Bush Canuck believes will happen to me after death, because I don't believe it. And he shouldn't have any problem with what I believe will happen to him after death, because he doesn't believe it.

All I care about is whether Pro-Bush Canuck supports my right to believe or not believe as I choose; that he will, in fact, fight for my right to not believe, as I will fight for his right to believe in Christ and not Islam without having to pay jizya.

re: #154 Fjordman

Well obviously I'm not God

I am!

On second thought, God could not possibly be a European.

re: #178 pat

re: #175 MigueldowninMexico

Ditto. Complete leftists bullshit.

Absolutely pat.

All of the Christians I've ever talked too tell me that they believe in God. Keyword- "believe". It's a matter of faith, not fact for them.

All the atheists I've ever talked too tell me that there is no God...period! End of story! As if it's a scientific fact.

My question is, why do Christians get hammered for a belief that they base on faith but never claim to be a scientific fact...yet atheists can claim a fact with no scientific proof and get a pass?

re: #193 Mich-again

Just wait until he erects a straw man in your honor.

re: #192 MigueldowninMexico

I like catholics :)

re: #192 MigueldowninMexico

Not me Miguel. Color me a Protestant who married one of those heathen Catholics. And I love her too...

Cats and dogs living together!

re: #142 song_and_dance_man

I am offended by the last sentence in your post. I don't care what your religious or non-religious views are -- it was a vile statement.

I'm Catholic. Mass every Sunday. 3 children, with #4 on the way.

re: #171 Pro-Bush Canuck

Well, as long as people -- like you did in comment #155 -- acknowledge that your belief is based in "faith," then I have no problem with religion whatsoever. The wicket only starts to grow sticky when groups or individuals express a theological surety based on knowledge. That's when the door is opened for people to "act in God's will," which can lead to bad people doing bad things and giving themselves the stamp of approval.

The very notion of "faith" in Christianity hints at a vague, distant glimmer of agnosticism even at the heart of the religion. Because by relying on faith, one acknowledges that one doesn't know for sure, and is believing out of trust that it must be true.

re: #176 bikermailman

The thing is, and I prognosticate here, I think in the coming decades (years?) we're going to see a melding of that mandatory, state enforced atheism with islam. The socialism of Europe and the Americas has, and is broken down people's religious faith, morals, work ethic, and individuality. Islam is coming in to take over, where the vacuum has been created. Islam, and the left both use a state run system where everything is dictated to the masses. The left in Western culture has simply paved the way for the new islamic masters to fill that vacuum. Multiculturalism is providing the bridge between old, Christian Western Civilization, and whatever new comes down the pike.
/sorry for the ramble

No need to apologize -- I think you're right on the money!

re: #195 song_and_dance_man

C'mon, Song... The Pimp of Rome?

Get your free Bible right here.

/fuel injected and supercharged

re: #210 zombie

The very notion of "faith" in Christianity hints at a vague, distant glimmer of agnosticism even at the heart of the religion. Because by relying on faith, one acknowledges that one doesn't know for sure, and is believing out of trust that it must be true.

But doesn't calling yourself agnostic hint at you're calling Christ a liar?

I keep wishing that there was a Jewish equivalent to the POPE! He's going to be very important. I hope that his age is going to allow him to be the instrument. So far so good.

re: #166 Fjordman

Zombie:

Welcome to Club Agnostic! Always nice to greet new members.

When is our next meeting?

We're gonna need someplace roomy, with plenty of seats, a place for folks to stand and make speeches, and decent acoustics. Hmm... First Baptist across town, or Beth Israel down by the library?

re: #180 yenta-fada

Re #123 Fjordman

"Chomsky is the prototype of a suicide Jew."

I actually prefer 'homicide Jew' since he manages to make all Jews look bad. Unfortunately people tend to jump from the specific to the general without a pause in logic. If one Jew does something bad, all Jews are bad kind of phenom. You know, 'all Jews are rich and greedy' and other myths that won't die.
If you are the Fjordman, author of the fantastic and astute blog, I want to thank you for all your work. (shameless flattery alert)

Homicide Jew works better...besides, not just the Jews he wants to take out, it's all of Western Civilization. BTW, yes, it is THE Fjordman. He drops in on this little juke joint around this time, and in the mid morning, I think, as well.

re: #209 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

I'm Catholic. Mass every Sunday. 3 children, with #4 on the way.

How you doin', Ed? How far along is number four? I'll keep you in my prayers, brother.

re: #189 Fjordman

#176: The irony is that now, when we are vastly technologically superior, we are losing. When the Arabs invaded France and Charles Martel beat them back, we were clearly outnumbered. I sometimes wonder whether Westerners perform at our best when we are the underdog and have our backs against the wall.

Socialism isn't irony. Forcing a Nation's productive people to subsidize the reproduction of that same Nation's unproductive people counters Darwinism.

re: #210 zombie

Zombie, we've had this discussion before. There are levels of knowledge which transcend the logical-positivist outlook that is the default for most savvy Westerners these days.

Christians do not claim "knowledge" of the sort you fear. We claim knowledge of a far deeper, more expansive aspect of reality than is dreamt of by the likes of Dawkins. There is no danger in this, though there is great waste of human potential in the modern collapse of the higher faculties.

I kinda like that movie "What Dreams May Come". That kind of afterlife seems about right to me. Your afterlife isnt a reward or punishment, its what you make it.

What ever. Not sure what is on the other side but I have little doubt that something exists. Ive seen enough weird stuff to know that there is something beyond the material.

re: #204 DesertSage

Whoah. Nice one.

I am sure you have stated somewhere why you closed your blog, but I have not seen such a statement. So I ask: why did you close you blog? We liked your blog.

Originally I didn't intend to write nearly as much as I have done for the past two years. I imagined myself guest blogging on rare occasions. But I like the deal I have now, where I can publish at three different websites. I'm not a very technical person, so if I can leave the actual running of the website to others, I'm quite happy about that. I'm lazy...

But I do write essays still.

song_and_dance
The TRUTH?
It is the truth that the Pope IS A PIMP?

Wow man.
I better don't say anything as I don't have words to answer to someone so lowly, so debased.

Incredible.

On second thought, God could not possibly be a European.

God is Norwegian.

re: #206 dimestorenovel

re: #192 MigueldowninMexico

I like catholics :)

:)

re: #142 song_and_dance_man

Just like I wouldn't dis President Bush by calling him some unseemly name, I don't really think that Benedict has done or said anything that warrants him being called a pimp. There are a number of issues that he has addressed with which I disagree, in word. The matter of pimping is not one of them.

re: #204 DesertSage

You havn't met very many atheists then...I don't claim to KNOW anything. I just don't believe in God but I won't ruleout the possible existence of one. It just seems to me that if there is a God that is all powerful, he/it should probably be thinking about sending a nother prophet pretty darn soon and it seems sort of suspicious that, now we understand science and all, we havn't seen hide nor hair of one in quite some time. So just let me be skeptical. I will always respect people who chose to believe.

The Holy Father is doing as he was commanded to do by Christ- leading the Church. Pope John Paul the Great did his bit against communism, last century's great evil (unfortunately, an evil not yet eradicated) and this pope is doing his bit against the scourge of Islam.
The Western press, whose idea of courage is rail against Christianity, will not see it that way but I doubt the pope cares. These new words will only hash what we've seen before- uncontrolled violence from emotionally-stunted bullies. If Pope Benedict can see this from Rome, then the armchair critics should be able to see it from the West and have the stones to criticise this violent sect.
Not that they will. Just a shred of optimism on my part.

re: #157 MigueldowninMexico

Im with you Miguel

re: #207 goodbye_natalie

re: #192 MigueldowninMexico

Not me Miguel. Color me a Protestant who married one of those heathen Catholics. And I love her too...

Cats and dogs living together!

Hahahaha. ;)

re: #200 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Probably a very good thing I'm not God. Because His thoughts are as far above mine as the heavens to the ground.

But, if I were, you could drink more without a hangover, 43 year old guys could still enjoy a boatload of jalepeños on their nachos without lower GI pain the following day, post-nasal drip would be a thing of the past, and fire ants would not exist.

If I were, I suppose the choice between the up button or down button would depend on a vote of all the people you came across in this world. But I'm not so that doesn't mean anything.

re: #209 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

I'm Catholic. Mass every Sunday. 3 children, with #4 on the way.

re: #222 Mr. E. Train

Ive seen enough weird stuff to know that there is something beyond the material.

What have you seen? I'm interested in this stuff.

re: #222 Mr. E. Train

"it's what you make it."

Praise God it's not what I make it. It would really, suck then. I touldn't pull my head out of my a** long enought to make it sufferable.

re: #215 song_and_dance_man

I was hoping you would clarify your statement, because at first glance it apears to be an extremely offensive statment to many here. You did, and it is.

re: #192 MigueldowninMexico

The LGF "Big Tent" for all beliefs, or lack of them, seems not to include Catholics.
Anti-Catholic bigotry pop-us with regularity around here.

It seems to be an American sport: Hate the Catholic.

How uncomfortable for Catholic lizards.

Well, speaking as a non Catholic, and one who can debate issues about it that I have problems with: We're all on the same side! I wish more people would get that through their frikkin heads. Speaking for myself, and from observing others on here who are fond of you, I'm glad to have you here, both as an individual, and as a Catholic.

#157 - Miguel - I agree with you absolutely. song man needs to apologize toot sweet. That was a really nasty remark.

The Pope has again risked provoking the wrath of the Islamic world, by criticising its treatment of Christians refusing to abide by Islam's blatant double-standard.

There! Fixed.

re: #204 DesertSage

All of the Christians I've ever talked too tell me that they believe in God. Keyword- "believe". It's a matter of faith, not fact for them.

All the atheists I've ever talked too tell me that there is no God...period! End of story! As if it's a scientific fact.

My question is, why do Christians get hammered for a belief that they base on faith but never claim to be a scientific fact...yet atheists can claim a fact with no scientific proof and get a pass?

Atheists aren't capable of understanding what they don't know. It is precisely like trying to dicuss Mozart with a profoundly deaf man. He isn't "wrong", he just can't know what he's missing.

re: #231 zorro43

re: #157 MigueldowninMexico

Im with you Miguel

Thanks zorro ;)

Ed ;)

Speaking as a Baptised and Confirmed Catholic... I wouldn't call the Pope a pimp. Mainly because having no balls does not make one a pimp.

re: #236 howyadoin

Duh, "couldn't"

re: #204 DesertSage

All of the Christians I've ever talked too tell me that they believe in God. Keyword- "believe". It's a matter of faith, not fact for them.

All the atheists I've ever talked too tell me that there is no God...period! End of story! As if it's a scientific fact.

My question is, why do Christians get hammered for a belief that they base on faith but never claim to be a scientific fact...yet atheists can claim a fact with no scientific proof and get a pass?

You just nailed down the reason why I'm an agnostic, not an atheist.

I know how puny my brain and understanding are. I don't know diddly-squat. And if I did delude myself into thinking I knew something transcendent to be definitively factual (or non-factual), then I'd be unworthy of the descriptive "rational."

The only difference between a priest and an atheist is the focus of their faith. The priest has faith there is a god despite being unable to prove it. The atheist has faith there is no god despite being unable to prove it.

They both cling to their certainty like a bit of wood in a storm tossed sea. But if you can let go and swim with that uncertainty, its actually kind of fun. Everything is possible and the edges of the map become open territory once again, waiting to be explored.

Ah, the classic "wee hours" LGF thread.

Infantile humor? Check.
Bickering over religious theology? Check.
Cranky nightowls who should hang it up for the night and get some sleep? Check.

I could sit here all night and watch the kitten chase ice cubes around in my glass but its' long past my bedtime, and the Tylenol PM is kicking in.

Night, lizards ;).

re: #226 Fjordman

On second thought, God could not possibly be a European.

God is Norwegian.

And apparently, He's not one to show favoritism.

re: #204 DesertSage

All of the Christians I've ever talked too tell me that they believe in God. Keyword- "believe". It's a matter of faith, not fact for them.

All the atheists I've ever talked too tell me that there is no God...period! End of story! As if it's a scientific fact.

My question is, why do Christians get hammered for a belief that they base on faith but never claim to be a scientific fact...yet atheists can claim a fact with no scientific proof and get a pass?

leepro sayin, "Well, there's a first time for everything..." (talking about myself, not you)

Here's mine:
Great point, Sage! Gave you a "+"

:D

re: #226 Fjordman

On second thought, God could not possibly be a European.

God is Norwegian.

God may be an American of Norwegian decent, but is certainly not Norwegian!

re: #238 bikermailman

re: #192 MigueldowninMexico

The LGF "Big Tent" for all beliefs, or lack of them, seems not to include Catholics.
Anti-Catholic bigotry pop-us with regularity around here.

It seems to be an American sport: Hate the Catholic.

How uncomfortable for Catholic lizards.

Well, speaking as a non Catholic, and one who can debate issues about it that I have problems with: We're all on the same side! I wish more people would get that through their frikkin heads. Speaking for myself, and from observing others on here who are fond of you, I'm glad to have you here, both as an individual, and as a Catholic.

Thanks a lot :)

re: #209 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

I'm Catholic. Mass every Sunday. 3 children,

Us too. As for the part about one on the way, good on you!

re: #174 ChenZhen

After reading the article about God and his legal brief, I'm contemplating St. Michael the Archangel for my first sock puppet. And BTW, he is considered the champion of the Jews as well as Christians.

No offense to anybody-but does it seem that many agnostics declare themselves atheists?

re: #247 Irish Rose

Aaaah, Dyphenhydramine. Hope I spelled that right. Lovely stuff. Niteall!

re: #197 pat

I do not mind Catholics. Went to the schoolsEnjoy the outfits.

Fixed it for ya.

re: #209 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

I'm Catholic. Mass every Sunday. 3 children, with #4 on the way.

Congratulations!

re: #247 Irish Rose

Good night, Rose. Like the NIC.

re: #229 dimestorenovel

Y

ou havn't met very many atheists then...I don't claim to KNOW anything. I just don't believe in God but I won't ruleout the possible existence of one.

Well, you just described agnosticism, not atheism. Agnostics believe in the possible existence of God...atheists don't.

re: #245 zombie

re: #204 DesertSage

All of the Christians I've ever talked too tell me that they believe in God. Keyword- "believe". It's a matter of faith, not fact for them.

All the atheists I've ever talked too tell me that there is no God...period! End of story! As if it's a scientific fact.

My question is, why do Christians get hammered for a belief that they base on faith but never claim to be a scientific fact...yet atheists can claim a fact with no scientific proof and get a pass?

You just nailed down the reason why I'm an agnostic, not an atheist.

I know how puny my brain and understanding are. I don't know diddly-squat. And if I did delude myself into thinking I knew something transcendent to be definitively factual (or non-factual), then I'd be unworthy of the descriptive "rational."

Au contraire, zombie! You take many, many things as "fact" that are in reality illusion. Quantumn thermodynamics puts the lie to most of what we consider the common-sense view of "reality". Quantumn cosmological non-locality destroys the carefully constructed lattice-work of cause/effect relationships that we all take for granted as "fact".

The deeper science delves, the more things reveal deeper underlying realities.

Hell, plenty of people believe that time is linear!

re: #256 bikermailman

re: #197 pat

I do not mind Catholics. Went to the schoolsEnjoy the outfits.

Fixed it for ya.

Ahh. Memories.

re: #224 Fjordman

I am sure you have stated somewhere why you closed your blog, but I have not seen such a statement. So I ask: why did you close you blog? We liked your blog.

Originally I didn't intend to write nearly as much as I have done for the past two years. I imagined myself guest blogging on rare occasions. But I like the deal I have now, where I can publish at three different websites. I'm not a very technical person, so if I can leave the actual running of the website to others, I'm quite happy about that. I'm lazy...

But I do write essays still.

Okay. Thanks for the explanation. I still wish there were a place to go where we could read your opinions in toto instead of piecing them together from various websites. Your thoughts on this whole issue of Islam(ism) in the West was very much appreciated, so there are a lot of people who hope that you continue posting, if not in one place, at least in three!

re: #205 Noam Sayin'

re: #193 Mich-again

Just wait until he erects a straw man in your honor.

Oh I can't wait! But he won't. there are too many easy targets here for him to ever go after me.