cool list of sponsors. Terrorists one and all, from the sound of it.

Not all are terrorists; some are just dupes.

dhimmi

Charles have you ever noticed that most former Ambassadors to Arab countires are moonbats? I think the majority of them are bribed or blackmailed to become Arab terror apologists when they leave the diplomatic serivce. It seems that all former Ambassadors to Suadi Arabia are on the Saudi payroll.

I agree with Robert Crawford, some are dupes, eg. the Friends - they're probably Quakers who are always for peace. The question I have is WHO appointed Wilson to "investigate" the yellow cake in Nigera? Why in the name of all that's good and holy did he get picked?

Not surprising

Still not sure why this is getting any sort of attention anyhows

Except it being one in many ploys by the Dems to stifle our commander in chief during the early stages of our newest war

Voices in the Wilderness

Admitting no one's paying attention to them?

lol.

There was another idiotic U.S. Ambassador to Iraq at the time of the Kuwait invasion by the name of April Glaspie. That idiot told Saddam that we had no opinion regarding his dispute with Kuwiat.

Way OT - right now on the History Channel there is a documentary about the Nazi S.S. I am convinced that the only difference between the S.S. and the various Palestinian terror groups is that the S.S. were more efficient. The hatred of the Jews is the same though.

Frankly, I'm concerned about the CIA analyst wife sharing classified information with her ambassador husband. Was he cleared for this information? Did he have the requisite "need-to-know"?

I know when I held an intel clearance I discussed nothing classified with my wife. So waht if she was a horticulturist instead of an ambassador. She had neither the clearance nor the need-to-know.

This "spillover" at high levels is not healthy. I wonder how much Hillary was privy to as First Lady, for instance. More than she should have been I'd wager.

Thanks for the hat tip, Charles!

[pumps fists]

It's the Joe Wilson Show! Brought to you by...

Arab American Institute, Institutionalized Arab Americans, Quaker Friends of PBS Totebags, Fellowship of Reconciliation and Rapid Bus Deconstruction, Focus on American and Arab Ties (FAART), Legislative Committee of Concerned Wiccan Unitarian Hags, Jews First! Get The Other Infidels Later (JFGTOIL), Revolutionary Committee of Unemployable Grad School TAs, Global Peace and Justice Alliance for Pushing The Jews Into The Sea, Mennonite Commie Grandmas Who Like Those Swarthy Cesar Romero Types, Church of the Unshaven Coochie-USA Berkeley Office, Society of Fedayeen-Americans, CRAAP, TOFU, Pax Birkenstock, Hot All-Peace Action, Veterans Against Soldiers, Voices in Our Heads, and Womyn's Proactive Coalition For Meaningful Dialoging Activity Planning Workshops, Hamas, Bob's C-4 Belt Shack

Agreed! A short while ago I just so happen to briefly catch him on C-Span, Washington Journal... the minute anyone invokes "moveon.org" there is a problem. I don't know how to describe it as other than he's just out there..

Between this and the admission by Wilson on Good Morning America today that he, er, "sexed up" his initial claim about the leak to include a charge that Karl Rove was involved, the ambassador does not look like the rock of stability from which Democratic presidential hopefuls or party politicians in general should anchor their demands for a major special prosecutor investigation.

FAQs on the Women's Action for New Directions.

Since 1982 WAND has worked to:

Rewrite national budget priorities from the perspective of women;

End the culture of violence in our society and prevent violence against women;

Empower women to act politically, encourage women's leadership and bring more women into the public policy arena to further WAND's goals;

Eliminate the testing, production, sale and use of weapons of mass destruction;

Clean up the environmental effects of nuclear weapons production

And yet they hang out with:

Arab American Institute, Fellowship of Reconciliation, Focus on American and Arab Interests and Relations (FAAIR), American-Arab Anti-Descrimination Committee, American Muslims for Global Peace and Justice, , Muslim American Society...

My head feels like the egg in that "your brain on drugs" ad.

iowahawk lmfao that's just hilarious. I'm saving that list. :-)

Hmmm... according to Maclean's magazine, he is almost certainly the same Joseph Wilson who said, before the war:

"The destruction and loss of life will aggravate tensions in the region... and this is the wrong destination- the road to peace and stability in the Middle East goes through Jerusalem, not through Baghdad."

"Can we afford a war and the costs of cleaning up afterward? Absolutely not?"

(March 24, 2003)

Is this the guy Bush appointed to find links between Iraq and Niger uranium- which even TIME magazine admits Saddam had purchased vast quantities of back in 1980?

I love "Veterans Against Soldiers". And "Voices In Our Heads". They're all fucking classic, it's hard to pick.

All the sponsors of EPIC are either Arab organizations or leftist "peace activist" groups. Except the

Church of the Brethren Washington Office, Mennonite Central Committee

These are Anabaptists. According to their website they train "nonviolent resistance" in Shechem (Nablus) with the Holy Land Trust.

I believe that Facts and Logic about the Middle East was also on the list.

Don't you Americans recognize traitors and Quislings??

Oh well, not to worry, we up here in West Froggistan (Canada) don't either.

The soddomites can buy us off with no problem. I thought the price of treachery was 30 pieces of silver. I guess the price has gone up since then.

WAKE UP PEOPLE!

I gotta ask, iowahawk; are you sniggering uncontrollably when you type this stuff? I mean, are you as funny to yourself as you are to us? Do you sometimes have to step away from the computer for about five minutes to just laugh at this shit you come up with?

Boy the press is really trying to run with this though. It won't matter if this guy turns out to have been in a love pentangle with his wife, Saddam, Scott Ritter and an eight year old girl, the press will do their best to hammer Bush.

Charles Schumer calling for an independent counsel. I know some posters like him, because he is good about radical Islam, but he sounds like a partisan hack to me.

I'm a little confused. Was this woman's job title/position actually classified? Listening to a clip of Novak on the radio, it sounded like she was just an analyst, not some kind of agent.

I do hope if a law was broken Bush puts integrity above loyalty. But it is starting to sound like it wasn't Karl Rove or any really senior people. I heard a bit of Wilson on "All Things Considered" and he pretty much admitted he had no proof Rove was involved, before asserting again Rove "knew" the information was being leaked for "eight days" before doing anything about it.

I take it Wilson is a Democrat. What country was he ambassador for? Is there a money trail?

If you type "Allah" into Google, the first link is now Allah's blog. Allah Akbar!

Ed Moran - I once owned a 1980 Buick Skylark that was previously owned by Charles Schumer's father.

Joe Wilson is a typical Arabist of the State Departmetn striped pants school. These Arabists are always trying to sabotage U.S. policy and make it more amenable to the Arab fascist world.

Did I mention my 1993 Buick Skylark gets a touch over 20 mpg in urban traffic with a V-6, and after almost 140,000 miles doesn't burn a drop of oil between oil changes? Passed the Harris County vehicle emissions test easily.

The AC has never been worked on, not even a coolant charge, and has kept me cool through a decade's worth of Texas summers?

If I get a decent Christmas bonus, my wife and I may buy an SUV or van ( maybe Korean, we wanna keep below the mid 20s), but I may not trade the Skylark in, as it probably doesn't have much SWADA/Blue Book value.

Heads should roll. I wouldn't trust a nutbar like this to heat up a bowl of soup. I'd also be kind of concerned about how this reflected upon his wife's decision making ability and objectivity, considering her duties. That he was allowed to represent the country in a postman's uniform would be a tremendous managerial oversight, much less intelligence gathering on foreign soil. There's a pretty interesting story under the surface here.

Wilson is such a simple tool. Does he even have a job these days? No wonder he's stumping for MoveOn.org and WinwithoutWar.

He's the DLC's WMD. There, we found one.

Model4-I just got back from heating up a bowl of soup! LMAO

This Bears game is making me really sad. Not that I didn't expect exactly that.

Ed Moran - my favorite car that I ever owned was teh Skylark. It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Goerge Costanza buys a gcar because he thinks that it was previously owned by the actor Jon Voight. eventually it turns out that it was owned by John Voight the Dentist.

Seriously though there should be a law which prohibits US diplomatic personnel from working for the countries that they were stationed in when they were in the employ of the US government.

#11 iowahawk 9/29/2003 06:52PM

hehehe!

#21 evariste : Please don't encourage iowahawk. He's still on my shit-list for daring to utter "President Timberlake." Twice. Funny or not, that's no laughing matter.

OK, I laughed! He's brilliant.

AmericaMustNotYieldToSpellchecking :-)

29 evariste

As a life long Steeler fan, all i can say is this:

Kordell's your problem now.

Kidding. You have my deepest sympathies.

Moral of the whole Wilson/Plame folly is that our pres ought to be more careful who he hires/retains from previous administrations. Some of these people are not trustworthy. And yes I do have a sense of humor but this isn't funny.

dgd

#34

Good points, generally, but remember

" I before E, except after C"

Or maybe that was ELI the ICE man

No, it was
Bad
Boys
Ravaged
Our
Young
Girls
But
Violet
Gave
Willingly

No, thats not it either. Never mind, good post.

OK, Wilson's a raving anti-Semitic lefty moonbat who hangs out with "peace" activists and other Islamist useful idiots. There are even rumors that he's a Democrat.

Why exactly does this justify damaging the CIA's work by blowing his wife's cover?

Evariste-

You type too fast.

My wife is watching the bane of heterosexual men everywhere, "Trading Spaces".

Who is winning on MNF?

SoCalJustice-I must say I've never been much of a KS fan. I guess he our my problem now. Sigh.
Ed Moran & The CBS Orchestra-What was that last thing, is it like Roy G Biv? IE a color acronym? I haven't heard that one...

Aw hell, that ain't the half of the stickers on Flip Wilson's stock car...

No As A Matter Of Fact We Won't Put Our Clothes Back On, al-Dat Jazzeera, Youthful Youth Against Agnew, Rachel's List, Coalition For Islamic-Pig Monkey Unity, Diversity Center For Blasphemer Death-USA, Kalashnikovs 'R' Us, Rage Against My Allowance, Peace Through Hemp, LaRouchians For Islamic Justice, Grassroots Campaign For Highjacker Rights, United States Educators For Universal Love/Israeli Disarmament In Our Time (USEFUL-IDIOT)

You're A Hero, Ed Moran!, the Pack is just pulverising Chicago 24-3 so far. Almost halftime, Chicago about to kick another 3.

I'm going to assume Wilson is just a garden-variety moonbat and not being blackmailed.

I'm sure someone has already posted this to another thread. It's from [Link: www.newsmax.com...]

Former U.S. ambassador to Iraq, Joseph Wilson admitted Monday morning that he fabricated a key part of his allegation that the White House deliberately blew his wife's cover as a CIA weapons analyst.

Wilson has accused top Bush political strategist Karl Rove of leaking the name to columnist Robert Novak, telling a Seattle audience last month that he wanted "to see whether or not we can get Karl Rove frog-marched out of the White House in handcuffs."

"In one speech I gave out in Seattle not too long ago, I mentioned the name Karl Rove," Wilson told GMA. "I think I was probably carried away by the spirit of the moment."

Carried away?!?!?!

Let's home his wife is "just" an analyst.

#39 ZBeeblebrox: It doesn't. If she was an undercover agent, and someone blew her cover, they should face the music for it. Conservatives aren't perfect, individually or collectively. But I'll stack their character, integrity and principles up against today's liberals any time. My guess is that we won't be hearing this president haggling over what "is" is, nor will his supporters launch a jihad to protect anyone in his administration from taking responsibility for criminal activity.

It is written that one of the most dangerous places in the world to be is between Chuckles Schumer and a camera.

OMG!!! "Rage Against My Allowance"
Love USEFUL-IDIOT too :-)

A color acronym indeed. I learned it in B-double-E at NTC Great Lakes, Illinois.

Once upon a time I could tell you how many ohms a resistor was by looking at the little colored bands on it.

I could find fault in the IF strip of an AN/SPS-10 surface search radar with nothing more than a cheap oscilloscope and a Simpson 260 multimeter.

Alas, all for naught, I received my education before the digital age, the only thing remotely digital I learned was how to construct an astable, bistable or multistable multi-vibrator ( snicker) from transistors, resistors and capacitors, which could then be used for simple logic circuits.

Show me an 80 pin IC chip and I break out in a cold sweat.

No, give me something I can put my hands on, like the sigma curve on a thermal neutron decay log, finding hidden hydrocarbons behind pipe.

Weird, what one remember, what one forgets.

I'm listening to the speech, and it's gruesome. Here's the money quote - or rather, the shekel quote:

“The real agenda in all of this of course was to redraw the political map of the Middle East. Now that is code, whether you like it or not, but it is code for . . . for putting into place the strategy memorandum that was put into place by Richard Perle and his study group in the mid 90s, which was called ‘A Clean Break: a new strategy for the realm." And what it is, cut to the quick, if you take out some of these countries that are atongonistic to Israel, then you provide the Israeli government with greater wherewithall to impose its terms and conditions on the Palestinian people. . . That is the real agenda.”

And so we see Ambassador Wilson's.

evariste - I'm usually too drunk to snicker.

You in Chicago? I'm in Chicago. I'll buy first round some time.

Omigoodness, at the end of my last post "Sunrise, Sunset" popped into my head, and now it won't leave.

BTW, my wife hates musicals. I suspect I may be the only straight man under 50 in America who likes musicals. I sing along to "Oklahoma!". I know every last lyric to "West Side Story".

But I like the NFL, NCAA football and NASCAR, so I'm not going soft or anything.

iowahawk-hell yeah! 2nd, 3rd & several more on me. :-)

I wonder if Senator Schumer, who is pushing so hard for a special prosecutor, knows that Wilson is probably an Antisemitic Moonbat, Second Class.

Ed Moran and his Amazing Technicolor Dreamcar, I like some musicals too.

I noticed the usual reactions to this whole Joseph Wilson thing: Democrats creaming their pants at the thought of Bush and a major scandal, Republicans playing defense (as usual).

It looks like we have a tinfoil-helmet of the highest order, with an obvious axe to grind, and of course the blogosphere is the only place where this will be noticed.

The problem is, with all of these small battles the administration has to constantly fight, the large picture is getting lost. Our president performed well when the large picture was most visible. The donks and their willing accomplices in the media have slowly worn away any resolve this country had. The poll numbers are starting to show it.

Is this president going to grow a set, go on TV, blast the donks like he's been blasted himself? Is he going to call the Donks on their political opportunism? Or is he just going to just stand there and take this shit?

As a conservative, I really am tired of this whole "New Tone in Washington" gig - it makes our president look weak. In the immortal words of Gordie Howe, "It's time to play religious hockey - it's better to give than to receive."

TV (Harry)

"Sunrise Sunset"?

Then you might like this old article I wrote after Hillary's spit-swap with Suha Arafat (2000)

Clintons to Star in "Fiddler" Revival

You tell him Harry.

You know why they call him Dirty Harry, don't you?

Ed, Iowahawk:

STOP IT.

I absolutely MUST step away from the keyboard.

And you are making me READ THIS STUFF to all hours of the night.

(And Ed, I think I, too, have all the musicals memorized.)

Because it is absolutely bogus for us to have gone to war the way we did

LMAO this guy is too much! Oops, game on. Can't listen any more.

Iowahawk, take Evariste him to Jimmies on 55th steet, if its still there. Also, does anyone have any idea as to which part of the Democratic Party Interest Section at the CIA Mrs Wilson reports to.

#23 evariste

If you type "Allah" into Google

Did you see this?

Jews for Allah

They're working on a Hebrew Koran. And just take a look at the before and after photos of the Jewish Muslim.

"Now I know why they call him Dirty Harry. Always gets the shit end of the stick"

-Reni Santoni, in Dirty Harry, 1971

#49 Lileks

Furthermore, Wilson (and many others) completely mischaracterize the document in question. In Commentary, Joshua Muravchik writes (sorry for the long excerpt):

The BBC claimed to have found a smoking gun one that others have pounced on as well. Bradshaw "In 1996, a group of neocons wrote a report intended as advice for incoming Israeli Prime Minister Benny [sic] Netanyahu. It called for . . . removing Saddam Hussein from power, an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right." Perle and Douglas Feith, the latter now a high official in Bush's Defense Department, were among those who had "contributed" to this paper.

Yet even if the BBC had characterized the document accurately, it would not imply what the BBC (and not the BBC alone) suggested it did. The Americans whose names appeared on the paper had long sought Saddam's ouster, an objective that was already, in 1996, the declared policy of the Clinton administration. It would thus make more sense to say that, in preparing a paper for Netanyahu, they were trying to influence Israeli policy on behalf of American interests than the other way around. Indeed, most Israeli officials at that time viewed Iran, the sponsor of Hizballah and Hamas, as a more pressing threat to their country than Iraq, and (then as later) would have preferred that it be given priority in any campaign against terrorism.

To make matters worse, the BBC fundamentally misrepresented the nature of the document. Contrary to Bradshaw's claim, no "group of neocons" had written it. Rather, it was the work of a rapporteur summarizing the deliberations of a conference, and was clearly identified as such. The names affixed to it were listed as attendees and not as endorsers, much less authors.

So, it's a conspiracy theory about a non-conspiracy.

I take it "Fundraiser" is sung to the tune of "Tradition"?

Wilson had very anti-Bush sentiments so it hardly seems likely that Cheney --as Wilson claims--was the one who requested he be assigned to investigate whether Sadaam purchased or tried to purchase uranium. He also had no intelligence experience. So, it doesn't make sense that the White House would have asked for him specifically to go. Why would they ask someone who had been critical and not supportive?

Additionally --there is speculation that his wife was a non-offical covert agent --again because it was not much of a secret within D.C. However, it has been noted that she has worked stateside the last years and thus her position is not likely as sensitive as it might have been in the past.

I am inclined to agree with the poster above who said there is more reason to be concerned if she shared classified information with her husband. Because she accompanied him on that trip --which means she was likely the "agent" assigned not her husband.

It's just not adding up. Why would the CIA choose a novice -a non-agent --for something that important?

No, "Fundraiser" sung to "Matchmaker."

OMGosh, Iowahawk, I just read your "Clintons in Fiddler" article.

I can't type.

Tasty Bev-

I was expecting an Onion or Allah in the House blog.
Instead

" These are True Stories of Jewish People who followed Judaism and became Muslim, despite the Israeli Arab political conflict, more and more Jews are realizing

that Judaism and Christianity are light houses leading to Islam, whether you were a Messianic Jew, a Jew for Jesus, or an Orthodox Jew, any Jew can be for Allah. Because Everyone is born a Muslim (in Submission to Allah) Everyday Jews are Returning (Reverting) to their Religion of Birth and the Religion of Abraham, Moses, and all the past Prophets, Islam.

"

Bummer.

#55 Inspector Callahan: After they settle on a candidate, who's already locked his (sorry Carol, besides, we know why you're there) position in with many statements on the primary trail. That's my guess anyhow. That poor bastard's going to get crushed.

The "New Tone" is a bitter pill to swallow, but it made for unprecedented gains during the '02 election (especially considering the number of seats defended by each party). Bush is bleeding the life not just out of his opponents, but out of their party. Jumping too far into the fray at this point would just erase the contrast in the level of discourse, and the perceived stature of the Dem contenders. And they haven't even begun to turn on each other yet, and that's not even factoring the rumors that Hillary doesn't want any Dem to win this time around.

Iowahawk-
Thanks for straightening me out.

Inspector Callahan- Bonus question:
Who is Marcella Platt?

#60 Gymnast

Iowahawk, take Evariste him to Jimmies on 55th steet

Sorry, I'm a confirmed Northsider (tho I like Checkerboard lounge and Fitzgeralds in Berwyn). My beat is Green Mill, Happy Village, Schubas and Martyrs. No pun intended.

iowahawk-NORFSOID!! I can often be found haunting the L&L Tavern, unsuccessfully hitting on actresses. :-)

#49 Lileks

And so we see Ambassador Wilson's.

They're all the same. This just in:

Senior U.S. diplomats press Israel on settlements

Guess with whom this Senior U.S. diplomat was speaking?

The warning came in a speech by
*William Burns,* assistant
secretary of state for Near
Eastern affairs, at the
U.S.-Arab Economic Forum in
*Detroit*, a conference exploring
ways of fostering growth,
development and trade between
the United States and the Arab
world.

Bastard!

04:04William Burns: Israel`s refusal to halt settlements may endanger its future as a Jewish democratic state (Israel Radio)

The loss of tiny infants, little children and young people to viscous terror attacks are what is the real danger to the future of Israel!

Burns of course lacks the balls and the WILL to say this. Matter of fact every time he speaks such inane drivel, he himself endagers Israel.

...and so goes the pandering and obnoxious appeasement on infinitum.

Hey Burns and Wilson check this out:
Choosing Life

We have lost our fathers and mothers, our sons and daughters, our grandparents and doctors. We have lost our teachers and rabbis, our students and artists. We have lost a father the day after his son's wedding, and a father and a young bride the day before she was to be married. We have lost so much, and somewhere in the midst of all this loss, we have found ourselves again. Many have come here to live at a time when “normal” people would be running in the other direction. Israel is ours and we finally understand that it does not matter what the world says or does. We cannot change them, cannot convince them. We can only do what we must.

Last year, we still believed there could be a peaceful solution, that a roadmap could be found to lead us out before we hit bottom. For the sake of peace, we thought last year, we would tear our land apart, divide our communities. We would cut our heart, divide our soul. We would sacrifice and achieve peace and, with that peace, retain access, if not ownership, to our history, portions of our land, places in our hearts.

This year, we hit bottom. We buried our babies and those about to be born. We ached in places we didn’t know we could hurt, cried tears we thought had long since been spent, and watched the blood flow in our land. And finally, across the political spectrum we understood that peace, the greatest of our dreams, our deepest hope, could not be attained through surrender, withdrawal, submission and acceptance. The price they demanded was simply too high, too much. But more importantly, they were not prepared to pay equally, not prepared to even deliver on what we paid for.

For the rest of you who truly care, open the link and read it all, each and every word. It is simply breathtaking and heartbreaking.

FreakyBoy:

FAQs on the Women's Action for New Directions.

Since 1982 WAND has worked to:

Rewrite national budget priorities from the perspective of women

Er, how?

Food Stamps to cover Chocolate?

More federally funded research into that critical issue, "does this dress make me look fat"?

{ducking and covering}

Harry-

Love you work, when I was stationed in Baja Oakland Alameda I made a pilgrimage to the Muni station where Harry caught the streetcar/subway.

I noticed the Muni appeared to run the same Boeing built cars that went out to Kenmore Station ( Fenway Park), which I used to ride out the summers I spent at my grandmother's house. Not always easy being a Yankee fan in Fenway, but hey, I was loyal.

Giants used to give free bleacher tickets with military ID. I saw a Dodgers game, police w/ riot gear there. Judging from last week's homicide, that is still a pretty bitter rivalry.

I kinda lost interest in baseball after the strike. I've tried to watch a few "Stros games, but I get bored.

Model 4 (69)

Jumping too far into the fray at this point would just erase the contrast in the level of discourse, and the perceived stature of the Dem contenders.

That thought had crossed my mind, and all I can say is, I hope to hell you're right.

Ed Moran (70),

Bonus question: Who is Marcella Platt?

Good one Ed. (I feel lucky) It's the character name of the lady bus driver near the end of Dirty Harry

TV (Harry)

In 100 years, historians will ponder our gullibility about these traitors. The hypocrisy and totalitarian sympathies of peace activists, the brutish authoritarianism of the academic left, the paid enemy agents in the high councils of government, the ruthless venality and power-seeking of the media; the cowardice and stupidity of our leaders; will be as obvious then as the foolishness of flat earth theory and the immorality of divine right are to us today.
The real question: Will our descendants shake their heads and smile in pity at our ignorance, or will they curse us for leaving them a shattered and enslaved world?

Enough stream of conciousness typing for one night. It is after 10 pm here in the Heart of America.

Buenos Noches, y'all.

Harry-

You're good.

Ed (75),

kinda lost interest in baseball after the strike. I've tried to watch a few "Stros games, but I get bored.

Think you have it bad? This particular Inspector Callahan lives in the Detroit area. We have the Tigers (2nd worst team of all time as of yesterday, and they had to take 3 out of their last 4 games to avoid being the worst team of all time).

I feel like Sylvester's son (wears paper bag, exclaims "Oh the shame of it all")

TV (Harry)

evariste - best bar in Chicagoland, hands down: Hala Kahiki in River Grove. 1965 Tiki bar untouched by time, frequented by an odd mix of retroswingers, Russian mobster types and their stripper girlfriends.

#22 Ed Moran:

More than a pentangle. You forgot the camel and the goat: no real orgy in the region is complete without them.

Iowahawk, Northside, used to be a place called the Cubbie Hole or something to that effect accross the street from Wrigley Field. Run buy a former student of mine. Check it out and keep him from starving.

Frank IBC-flirting with death, I see...:-D
Tasty Beverage, did you check out the page with pics of converts? What a pathetic bunch!
And one of those is from 1900! Talk about padding the stats! Hey, anyone wanna pretend to be a Jew convert to Islam who is having second thoughts, and have an IM conversation with one of Allah's finest? And post the transcript here, of course :-)?

Yes, the voices in the wilderness twerps are there. How typical.

I have a problem with voices in the wilderness. They were in part responsible for the continuation of Saddam's regime, and the death of who knows how many Iraqi civilians. Look here;

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.a sp?ID=9211

Not only that, they have infiltrated the United Methodist Church. A few weeks ago the UMC's front page had a link to some dork belonging to voices in the wilderness, and talked about what a good job he was doing in Iraq. Bullshit!

My problem with this is that I'm a Methodist. My church will not dictate my politics, especially if they're linked to a bunch of smelly hippies.

Voices in the wilderness can kiss my ass, and if the United Methodist Church supports voices in the wilderness, then they can kiss my ass too.

GTC

You mean the Cubby Bear? Good place.

I'm bushed - buenos nachos, hasty bananas

iowahawk-awesome, I love that kind of bizarre stuff. I'll be sure to check it out...gymnast, if his bar is across from wrigley, well a-I've probably already had a beer there and b-there is no way in hell he will starve.

Thats it. Say "Hi" to george for me. He was the only guy in the backfield who passed the course that summer.

Uhh, can we actually talk about this speech? It starts out pretty disgusting. I just got past the part starting at 05:14.

Here in the United States on September 11th, 2001, we suffered the loss of two buildings in New York and severe damage to one building in Washington, and we suffered the loss of roughly three thousand lives. In Iraq, during the "shock and awe" bombing campaign, we now know that over three thousand Iraqis were killed, we ought to assume that the better part of Baghdad currently suffers from "post-traumatic shock syndrome," in addition to everything else they suffer from, and Lord knows how many buildings in downtown Baghdad and elsewhere in the country were destroyed.

So there you have it. "Two buildings." This man is a hater. An ideologue, and a hater.

See ya Ed Moran, iowahawk.

Finally a TD for da Bears. A one-possession game.

#73 selpaw--

Don't just blame Ambassadors Burns and Wilson. It goes all the way up to President Bush, who endorses a Roadmap that equates life (settlement activity, including natural growth) with death (terrorism) by demanding the cessation of both. I posted here recently on the same passage from Devarim (Deut. 30:19) as is cited by the essay you point to.

Oh, and no LGF reader will be surprised to learn that Arab Foreign Ministers addressing the UN have returned to their themes that the Israeli occupation, not the lawful and legitimate Palestinian resistance thereto, is the real terrorism.

#90 Henrik Mintis

It gets worse. I have to step out for a bit, but will be curious to hear your thoughts (if you care to post them) when I return.

Argh. 89, not 90. I'd be better off if the digits on the keyboard were scrambled.

Henrik Mintis-I'd like to talk about it but I can't listen to the rest of it till this ball game is over.

Hi everybody!
The "story" isn't about Wilson, it's about the administration officials who outed a CIA operative. He could be a certifiable lunatic and nothing would change--the officials committed Treason. Your boy better cut bait quick or his boat's gonna get pulled down by the cover-up sharks.

Have fun twiddlin' your knobs!

Henrik Mintis: as Oscar Jr. says, it gets worse, a lot worse. I didn't use the word "moonbat" just for effect.

The really pathetic thing about this story is that you will not see coverage of this angle anywhere in the major media, guaranteed. There is a lot more to this than meets the eye, and the involvement of numerous Arab fifth column groups (hastily and ineptly concealed on the web page) raises the specter of big time oil-financed bribery.

Hi little buddy!
Nobody cares.
Have fun fucking yourself!

#89 Henrik Mintis

I was only able to get through about 15 minutes of that speech before turning it off in disgust. I need to work on the nausea reaction I get from watching and listening to LLL's speak/chant/march/play with puppets, etc.

Tasty Beverage-I love watching them play with their poop!
Oh, you said puppets.

#96 Buddy

I heard earlier today that it was known outside the government community that Mrs Wilson's wife was a CIa agent. Clifford May wrote such on NRO today. He is part of a think tank and figures if he knows so do a lot of other folks.
But if it is a leak, fire the guy!

Btw, who hired Mr. Wilson to go to Africa and have tea and taaalk about uranium? Never heard ? Also, heard he never wrote a proper report upon returning. Eventually wrote something that nobody read, not the VP,not Dr. Rice, no one of importance.

the 16 words didn't amount to anything and I dooubt this will either...as it is more about the 16 words.

#97 Lizardoid Master

If you download the Program Report, you'll see more of EPIC's supporters and participants in their "forum":

The Iraq Forum, training and grassroots lobbying would have been impossible without the special support of: ADAMS Center, Amnesty International–USA, Arab American Institute, Church of the Brethren Washington Office, Fellowship of Reconciliation, Friends Committee on National Legislation, Fourth Freedom Forum, the Methodist General Board of Church and Society, NETWORK – a Catholic Social Justice Lobby, OxFam America, Pax Christi USA, Peace Action, and Win Without War.

It must have been ... libruhlss!! Yes, libruhs, all conspirings and scheme-ings! Tricksy, sneaksy, and false! Libruhls have always hated the precious! They want to destroy the precious! But we won't them, will we, precious! We will wring their necks!

he was sent by je ne sais pas--but he used to the ambassador to gabon so he was one of the few who actually knew the power elite in niger and could chat them up--"ya know anything "bout yellowcake,mbungo?--no bwana wilson--okie dokie--i'll report that disinterested piece of information to my superiors at the house of the great white father--now lets share some bananas and scotch--regards to president kaminga--jeesh-talk about intelligence on the fly [whisk]--company needs a major major humint overhall

Charles:

I forgot to thank you for identifying the sponsors found in the HTML source code. I hadn't thought to look for that. It explains much.

I just re-read Wilson's interview at Josh Marhsall's place, because when I first read it last week, there was a part that just astounded a Middle American know-nothing like myself, and I wanted to see if it had any different context in light of today's media huffiness. The interview is very long, but it's here. He says that State, more than the CIA, was responsible for his Niger trip.

That part that got me, which really doesn't have much to do with outing agents or anything current is this:

Could Iraq purchase significant quantities--a quantity, 500 tons--of uranium from Niger without anybody knowing about it? Was it feasible? I came back and said, the business side of it says no and the government side of it says, because people told me--not because people told me but because this is the way that the procedure is--the government side suggests that, if there was going to be a memorandum of sale, that document would have to have the Minister of Mines, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, and the Prime Minister's signature on it. If that document did not have those signatures, then that document could not be authentic.

So, if Iraq wanted to make uranium purchases without anybody knowing about it...why would they leave a bunch of documents with signatures lying about? Niger had just had some kind of coup (in the late 90's), so you think they're worried about such bureaucratic procedures as getting signatures??? It's the same kind of in-the-box thinking that says, "Well, since we haven't been able to produce a document dated 9-10-01, From the Desk of Saddam Hussein, To Whom It May Concern, re: You Know What, text: 'Do it.'" that there must obviously not be any kind of connection.

The interview goes on to say how, since his observations jived with State's already established beliefs, it just got melded into a comprehensive reply to Cheney's request, and it's a good look into how the bureaucracy works even at that level, on things of that importance.

The Niger uranium mines are run by the French; that's really about all anyone needs to know to be suspicious.

#11 iowahawk,

re:Legislative Committee of Concerned Wiccan Unitarian Hags

The first Unitarian Wiccan Minister (Christa Landon) is a personal friend of mine. Her attitudes towards the war are not as far out as you make them out to be. Not pro war by any means but not moonbatty about it.

And some of the Unitarian Wiccans are real hotties.

None the less I found #11 amusing.

Here's what Wilson said about the French involvement in all of this:

"Of course, the French are going to know every step of the way. This was a French colony. The French had been part of every step of their development over the last 100 years. Even after decolonization in 1960 they were omnipresent. They were the operating partner in the consortium. And whatever you may think of the French, the French have a--nuclear energy is an important component of the French electrical power grid. They need uranium, they need to have a steady source of supply. They need to make sure that they're irreproachable in that, so they can continue to have a steady supply of uranium without running afoul of the IAEA or other international organizations."

Here, he admits that if the Niger wanted to sell uranium, it could've done so, legally or otherwise:

"It would be very difficult for a legitimate transaction undertaken by the government of Niger with the government of Iraq to be secret. Not impossible--and it's sort of worth trying to ask yourself whether or not the president, a coup leader, could do a side deal outside the context of the government, for his own account, or for the military."

Then he talks about the practicalities of getting the yellowcake to Iraq:

"TPM: Because you had said, there was a great deal of instability in this country in the late nineties.

WILSON: Well, that's right, and just because you had had the military coups, you had certain government behaviors that might have been skewed by the fact that you had a junta there. The problem with that--and I looked at that--the problem with that is that you still had to figure out a way to actually get the tonnage out of the mines and get it into barrels, and get it shipped several thousand miles across the Sahel, and down to the port, get it placed on ships, and get it sent, without anybody else knowing. And all that, would have involved the consortium. At a minimum, it would have involved the managing operating partner, which is Cogema, which is the French uranium company."

Here, to my mind, is the money quote:

"But my point being that even if the two governments had decided they wanted to do a clandestine transfer of uranium from one country to the other then it would be very difficult to effect without an awful lot of people knowing."

He mentioned in the NYT op-ed that the consortium was monitored by the IAEA, so that any uranium taken out of the mine would be tracked by them, not only the French who are the major partners in the consortium.

Any questions?

what if ? instead of the leak being retribution, it was sabotage of the current adminstration?

Partisanship has its place; but folks, you've got to keep it real and deal in the truth, so it may be time to get out of the the denial stage and consider what it means when "senior administration" officials leak classified information. The WH stonewalling has got to end, and an investigation on this issue is much needed. Here's what I wrote to the White House:

September 24, 2003

George W. Bush
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

Dear Mr. Bush,

Rumors are circulating in the media that the culprit who “outed” retired ambassador Joseph Wilson’s wife as a CIA operative is Karl Rove. I want to know if this is true.

I want to know if the White House and the FBI are attempting to identify who among the administration’s “senior officials” told columnist Robert Novak about Wilson’s wife.

I want to know, because divulging such information is both reckless and a federal crime, and such reckless criminal behavior could endanger the viability of CIA operations, the safety of CIA operatives, and the security of the country.

Furthermore, such reckless criminal behavior, if it occurred, would constitute a serious abuse of power at the highest level of our government; that would be utterly unacceptable and would merit severe punishment.

It looks as if someone in the White House should be indicted for this. So, where is the indictment?

Sincerely,

Marc Lawrence

Yeah, Darkie, I have a question: what's your point? I can't really tell.

Novak is the most pro-Iraq of all the major conservative columnists. And he certainly has little love lost for the "neo-conservative" Bush administration.

So the idea of him assisting said anti-Iraq neo-conservative administration in a hatchet job of a pro-Iraq employee, requires quite a stretch of the imagination.

Much more likely Novak cited the CIA links as proof of the supposed credibility of those trashing the Niger-Yellow Cake allegations.

Oh, BTW, in case I haven't said it before - Chuck Shumer is an @$$.

Wilson was also Ambassador to Iraq --not just Gabon.

There is likely far more to this than a disclosure that his wife worked for the CIA which apparently wasn't that much of a secret.

It sounds more like there was a breach of classified information and it may well be on the part of Wilson and his wife.

The suggestion that a senior Bush administration official with the complicity of Robert Novak would intentionally expose a CIA "agent" to our enemies is ludicrous on it's face. It's apparent that this guy, Flipped Wilson, is totally unreliable, which makes one wonder about how reliable his CIA "agent" wife is.

It makes me wonder if the Baathists et al aren't getting some assistance from highly placed Democrats in the WoT infrastructure in their efforts to hide WMD, wanted war criminals, and related documentation from detection. It does seem very uncanny how they have been able to stay one step ahead of us on many occasions.

115 azul93gt --

It sure is uncanny --isn't it. Not to mention that Wilson was the last American diplomat to have personal contact with Sadaam.

One might even suspect that the persons warranting investigation will turn out to be Wilson and his wife.

Apologies --let me correct my #116 post above --he was not THE Ambassador in Iraq --but a Diplomat

In an interview with TIME, Wilson, who served as an ambassador to Gabon and as a senior American diplomat in Baghdad under the current president's father,

[Link: www.time.com...]

Make that a correction to post # 114 not 116 --

Another cup of coffee must be in order ---

azul,

Wow, it's amazing to me how you can see past the apparent vindictiveness of certain members of this administration (remember how they treated McCain, a Republican war hero in SC - which demonstrates that they are above nothing) and concoct a convoluted plot that blames, who else? the liberals.

This is simple: Someone didn't like Wilson shooting off his mouth about the 16 words. Someone blew Ms. Plame's cover in order to intimidate future loud mouths. Hubris made them believe they could get away with a felony. They made a mistake. Oops.

Hey, I know it hurts to find out the White House could have committed a treasonous act, but there ya go. It's not only possible, but probable given their past amoral behavior.

cosmic grappler #119,

Hey, I know it hurts to find out the White House could have committed a treasonous act, but there ya go. It's not only possible, but probable given their past amoral behavior.

It's possible that this occurred. I'll grant that. And should the charge be substantiated, I hope that heads roll.

However, given Wilson's sponsor list, do you think it could be possible that he might have some sort of incentives toward revealing something supposedly untoward about the White House's behavior?

By Occam's Razor, odds are that Wilson is the one at fault here, not Rove.

Ariel,

Occam's razor suggests the simpler answer is right. How would Wilson's outting his own wife and then planting the story that the WH outted his wife benefit Wilson? No, the simpler answer is that through hubris, someone at the WH lashed out in a way they thought would damage Wilson and thought they could avoid the legal consequences.

As for the list of sponsors, it's no secret that Wilson thinks this is a dangerous administration. But to suggest that he's suspect disregards the fact that Bush 41 and Reagan both thought very highly of him. Could it be, by Occam's Razor, that Wilson truly believes this administration is not a conservative administration but is radical and truly dangerous? That makes more sense.

#61 - I wrote about the Jews for Allah site last year. Their list of converts is much less impressive once you actually read the stories.

cosmic grappler #121,

Excuse me as I answer in an unconventional way - by juxtaposing some parts of your post instead of in a linear manner:

How would Wilson's outting his own wife and then planting the story that the WH outted his wife benefit Wilson?

...it's no secret that Wilson thinks this is a dangerous administration.

OK, so let's audit this:
1) Wilson thinks this is a dangerous administration
2) Wilson has received money from people who it's safe to say may well be opposed to this administration
3) Wilson has already made one effort to embarass the administration (the famed 16 words) when he was the supposed investigator in Niger who had tea with folks

Now, Occam's Razor suggests that Wilson is opposed to this administration (which you have already agree with). Point #3 confirms that Wilson is willing to go to unusual lengths in his efforts against this administration. Occam's Razor suggests that he may well be willing to do so again - particularly as it would help his standing with some folks who sponsored his talk.

No, the simpler answer is that through hubris, someone at the WH lashed out in a way they thought would damage Wilson and thought they could avoid the legal consequences.

That is a fairly simple answer - but there are some odd things about that explanation. Just like the yellowcake story, this story was quiet for months until it could be used for partisan advantage. Might that suggest what the simpler explanation really is?

That said, I cannot deny that it is possible that somebody in the WH may have lashed out. However, Occam's Razor really doesn't promote this idea. It isn't obvious to me why outing Wilson's wife as a CIA agent/operative/whatever-she-is damages his credibility as a prominent anti-war spokesman. If anything, it should enhance his credibility. What's your explanation for this?

But to suggest that he's suspect disregards the fact that Bush 41 and Reagan both thought very highly of him.

I'm sorry, but just because other people thought highly of him doesn't make him suspect. The tradition is that people are paid to make the sorts of speeches he made (an honorarium). He probably accepted money from people who were opposed to the war - and coincidentally, we are assured, he has tried to embarass the administration over the war at least twice.

Could it be, by Occam's Razor, that Wilson truly believes this administration is not a conservative administration but is radical and truly dangerous?

I have no doubt that Wilson believes this. But it doesn't explain anything or add anything to what's known that he does believe this.

I learned about "'Jews' for Allah" from an article in the good-ol' Washington Post about a year ago.

Reminds me of a cartoon in MAD Magazine many years ago - headquarters of "Jews for Hitler" - slogan was "why all that fuss over one little mistake?"

On a related subject (which came up in another thread) does anyone know how many members Naturei Karta actually has? Every picture I've seen of them seems to be the same 5-7 @$$holes.

#22 Ed

Charles Schumer calling for an independent counsel. I know some posters like him, because he is good about radical Islam, but he sounds like a partisan hack to me

I am one who has posted comments complimenting Schumer's ability to see radical Islam for what it is and his willingness to speak about it.

But, he is also a political hack, Clinton ass-lick, and Democrat hatchet man.

It's those attributes that give Schumer credibility with some New Yorkers/Democrats/Jews on the subject of the threat from the Islamists.

Ariel,

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I appreciate it. But I'm still not convinced.

Yes, Wilson is opposed to this administartion and he was opposed to the war. Why? One reason he opposed the war was that he knew or suspected that some of the evidence, the stated rationale for changing the nation's entire historical policy of no pre-emptive war, was not credible. You can disregard his investigations with the tea comment but plenty of our intel and the WH's recent admissions suggest that he was right, the famous 16 words were based on shaky evidence. I think he was being a patriot by pointing this out, but I was opposed to this war, too, so you can see how my sympathies would lie in that direction. That's to your point #3.

As to why outting his wife would damage him, this is his wife we're talking about. The intent of outting her was not to discredit Wilson as an anit-war spokesman, but as revenge and to intimidate anyone else who might be thinking of talking. Again, I point to their past activities as an indication that this administration is capable of genuinely thuggish behavior (re:McCain).

On the other hand, Wilson's been a respected diplomat and Mideast expert for decades and that's enough reason to give him a fair hearing. He doesn't need the credibility of his wife's stature. And, as to Reagan and Bush pere's respect for Wilson, I only suggest that it's highly unlikely for a man to go from a respected diplomat to a loose cannon overnight. That explanation is too convenient for discrediting what he says. Again, by Occam's Razor, the simpler explanation is that he's telling the truth.

Finally, my answer to the partisan advantage angle: This story has been talked about for two months. The better question is why the mainstream media was so slow to pick up on it. And if it was for partisan advantage, believe me, 17 months out from election day is not very good timing if all you're trying to do is swing the electorate. That's why there's such a thing as an October Surprise.

But, in case want to disregard my sincerity here let me tell you that I'm a veteran (1969-71), very conservative in my personal life, I have a nephew and a niece in Iraq right now, I come from a long line of military officers (including a few West Pointers), have another niece at Langley, am friends with Skip Gnehm, our ambassador to Jordan and consider myself a solid patriot who has stepped up when my country called.

That said, whoever is responsible for outing a covert agent should do some serious time in an orange jumpsuit. And if it's Wilson, I will write a personal apology to Karl Rove. But I don't think that's going to happen.

I hope I've answered your points as clearly, and respectively as you answered mine. Thanks.

#49 James Lileks

It is always nice to see you posting on LGF. It is sad to see how thinly disguised anti Semitism has become slowly but surely somewhat respectable in certain quarters such as the left and the paleo (Buchannanite and Novakian) Right.

Cosmic,

This is simple: Someone didn't like Wilson shooting off his mouth about the 16 words. Someone blew Ms. Plame's cover in order to intimidate future loud mouths.

It seems too convoluted of a vieled threat to leak info to a journalist and then expect that journalist to report it and then expect that an enemy to act upon it or the agent to be intimidated by it especially when the leaker, the journalist, and the "agent." all should be on the same side in the WoT. Also from what I've heard Wilson's wife isn't a field agent, and her name has been published publicly by Wilson in the past.

From what I can gather Wilson doesn't know who the hell gave this info to Novak, but he went right ahead and started making wild accusations against the lefties' bogey man du jour, Carl Rove. Wilson obviously has some kind beef with the Bush administration. Which I base on his own statements.

To the extent that I followed the GOP presidential primaries McCain (the Media's favourite Republican) dished out as much as he received. I'm not buying the insinuation that Bush's campaign wronged McCain.

Nothing happened to him or his wife follwing Novak's revelation, but he's now trying to make a big deal out of it. Screw em'.

this speech is a bunch of wishful thinking (his predictions for bush's complete failure). save a copy so in a year we'll mail it back to him along with a detailed fisking.

cosmic grappler #126,

I also appreciate the discussion.

One reason he opposed the war was that he knew or suspected that some of the evidence, the stated rationale for changing the nation's entire historical policy of no pre-emptive war, was not credible.

As an aside, there have been countless cases where our nation engaged in pre-emptive war. Off of the top of my head, Viet Nam (Gulf of Tonkin), the Spanish-American war, and various insurgencies in Latin America come to mind. (This is not to say that we were necessarily wrong in these instances. Further, there are also wars where we were wrong not to enter earlier - WWII comes to mind.)

You can disregard his investigations with the tea comment but plenty of our intel and the WH's recent admissions suggest that he was right, the famous 16 words were based on shaky evidence.

Actually, I wasn't disregarding his investigations just by saying that he had tea. There just isn't evidence that he did anything more then chat up some fellows in Niger - and that's by his own account.

Incidentally, regardless of whether those words were based on shaky evidence, that point stands. I'm not going to try to convince you that the war was just (it was) in order to keep the focus on Wilson.

Given that Wilson is willing to do some work, to actually go to Niger, to find "evidence" which will later be found to be "shaky", it is not that inexplicable that he would continue to oppose the war.

I think he was being a patriot by pointing this out, but I was opposed to this war, too, so you can see how my sympathies would lie in that direction.

There's nothing wrong with opposing the war - that doesn't make someone unpatriotic. What makes me unsure of Wilson is that he went further then opposing the war - he appeared to try to sabotage the war effort by conducting a purposefully shabby investigation in Niger.

The intent of outting her was not to discredit Wilson as an anit-war spokesman, but as revenge and to intimidate anyone else who might be thinking of talking.

I can't deny that that's possible. But I'm not sure what the end is here either. It's pretty obvious that she will keep her job at the CIA or at least continue to receive pay from the CIA. Firing her would be pretty much impossible. Is it punishing her to not allow her to be sent to great vacation spots like Niger?

And, as to Reagan and Bush pere's respect for Wilson, I only suggest that it's highly unlikely for a man to go from a respected diplomat to a loose cannon overnight. That explanation is too convenient for discrediting what he says.

A fair point. I don't know if he did it overnight. But it can't be denied that he went above and beyond the call of duty for being anti-war. He one-upped McDermott and Bonior even. In my mind, he has discredited himself from being a fair expert by consistently pushing for one side - and receiving money from that side as well. I don't know whether he received money from that side previously - we do know that folks have been known to change their tune when money comes their way (think Ritter).

And if it was for partisan advantage, believe me, 17 months out from election day is not very good timing if all you're trying to do is swing the electorate. That's why there's such a thing as an October Surprise.

Another good point. I'd just say that it seems to me like the Democrats are trying to do the death of a thousand cuts. Not one particular thing, but a web of treachery, lies, evil, deceit, etc. is going to be their theme - and this will be part of that.

But, in case want to disregard my sincerity here let me tell you that I'm a veteran (1969-71), very conservative in my personal life, I have a nephew and a niece in Iraq right now, I come from a long line of military officers (including a few West Pointers), have another niece at Langley, am friends with Skip Gnehm, our ambassador to Jordan and consider myself a solid patriot who has stepped up when my country called.

I wouldn't have questioned it. But in case you want to know, I'm not a veteran, I'm hard-core conservative in some areas and fairly liberal in others, I know no one personally serving in Iraq, only my grandfather (of blessed memory) has served in the military, I know some CIA operatives personally, am not friends with Skip Gnehm (though I have been friends with other ambassadors), and am probably a fairly solid patriot who would gladly step up when my country called. OK, that was just a little bit of joking with you (not meant to be offensive). In short, my "patriot" credentials are not all that great, but I proudly support my country in this war and wherever I think it is just to do so.

In any case, since this is all over the Internet, I prefer to argue the points in the discussion rather then discuss who is more patriotic. Probably by any objective assay you win.

This is simple: Someone didn't like Wilson shooting off his mouth about the 16 words. Someone blew Ms. Plame's cover in order to intimidate future loud mouths.

Yeah... Future loud mouths that have spouses in the CIA. How ridiculous, why not cut out the middle man and just bump off the wife.[/sarcasm]

I want to repeat how much I appreciate the respect I've been shown here, and I even enjoy the sarcasm, a dish well-served in our household by everyone but the dogs. (Dogs are notoriously literal-minded.)

There is one point I've been shoddy on and one that's been pointed out (thank you) and that's a potential motive for a WH leak. I've heard a more plausible motive than my previous answer, that it was done for intimidation. Blame my memory. I'd simply forgotten how this all started.

The WH leaked the news of Plame's job at Langley as a way to undercut Wilson's credibility. The leaker said that Wilson's wife's a WMD specialist at the CIA, and that's the only reason he went to Niger, sort of a family junket to get the guy out of the house. (According to the CIA, Cheney's office asked for someone to be sent to check out the Niger story and the CIA chose Wilson because of his contacts in West Africa. Whether they made a wise choice or not is debatable, but irrelevant.)

Now, being human, I can easily see how this began to unravel. The leaker says, I'll discredit Wilson by writing off his journey to nepotism. Only later is it pointed out that what the leaker has done is a felony. (That exonerates Gonzales) Now, the toothpaste is out of the tube and the only thing left for the WH is to either come clean or to stonewall. In all of our history, have you ever known any administration, Republican or Democrat, to come clean? I didn't think so.

So, where are we? This is what I think happened: Wilson gives his story about the yellowcake in the NYT and that undermines the President's SOTU address. This is extremely embarrassing to the WH so an overeager beaver leaks the nepotism angle in order to discredit Wilson, then discovers he's committed a federal crime and everything goes into lockdown in the hopes that the major media will roll over and it'll all go away. It doesn't.

That's a very simple and understandably human story. That's why I believe this version vs. the convoluted plots of Wilson exposing his own wife and thereby destroying her career as a covert op (tough to be covert when your name is all over the news) just so the Democrats can have an issue for an election that is more than a year away. That stuff just doesn't make sense, no matter how much Wilson likes or dislikes this administration.

And I apologize if I sounded like "I'm more patriotic than you are." I get called un-American so often in conservative blogs that I went knee-jerk on you. Sorry.

Oh, and I would have replied sooner, but I was taking a nap. The dogs insisted.

All that is pure speculation. How can You idict the Bush Administration on speculation. I don't believe that Wilson "outed" his own wife as a CIA employee. My belief is that Wilson doesn't know who if anyone provided that info to Novak.

My belief is that he is shamelessly exploiting this situation for the benefit of his anti-war confederates in a fashion that is disruptive to the ultimate goals of the WoT. Furthermore this guy with his biases should never have been involved with any WMD investigation. He is in fact himself a detrement to any investigation and may actually have been sabotaging the investigation(s) into Iraqi WMDs'.

The fact that the CIA sent a nutter like Wilson - read his NYT article closely tells us that we should be looking into the ICA. Punish the leakeas but clean out the frat boys and sorority girls running the CIA and get some people in who know what they are doing.

The Dems have worked with the enemies of the US to sabotage a Rep president in the past.
Uncle Ted plays ball with the Reds.

cosmic grappler #132,

OK, I read your version of the story and I think that it's plausible. It could have happened that way. I'm still not sure that it's simpler then the version that I outlined, where Wilson is essentially motivated by ideological similarities and this is boosted by greed.

I don't think he intended harm to his wife; I think that he is trying to make an issue of a non-issue, which was his MO w/r/t the Niger yellowcake issue as well. He's trying to inflate the importance of the disclosure of his wife's CIA status to that of her being a covert operative, which no one has ever suggested she was - and the CIA felt very free in disclosing her name to Novak, suggesting a pretty odd position for the CIA to be in. Why would the CIA disclose her as a CIA member if she was actually a covert operative?

And I apologize if I sounded like "I'm more patriotic than you are." I get called un-American so often in conservative blogs that I went knee-jerk on you. Sorry.

No worries. I found it rather amusing - that's why you got my oddball response. I don't find it un-American to oppose the war - I find it un-American to sabotage the war effort, however, as some of the human shields did. So, as long as you and I are discussing the war on the Internet and not actually going out and making the war more difficult to prosecute for our government, I don't think there's a way to call either of us un-American.

Overheard in the hall outside Joe Wilson's office:

(warning: PG-13 rating)

"We will fuck him. Do you hear me? We will fuck him. We will ruin him. Like no one has ever fucked him!"

Oops, never mind, that was Karl Rove's office.

Isn't karma a bitch?

zionblogster,

Uh-huh. Intelligent post, there. Tell me, how many people do you know at Langley? And of those multitudes, who would you replace? If you have candidates, I know that the CIA is recruiting.

azul,

If you want to talk history of dealing with the enemy, I suggest you look into Prescott Bush's business dealings with Nazi Germany AFTER December 12, 1941 and then look up Karl Rove's grandfather's business during the war. Too far in the past for you? Take a look at Halliburton's work in Iraq and Iran when Dick Cheney was at the helm. This was in the 90's when Iran was listed as a supporter of terrorism and Iraq was under sanctions.

All I ask is that we hold all of our elected officials to a high standard of conduct. That means Clinton doesn't get a pass because it's about sex. That means this administration doesn't get a pass just because they got your vote. Bad behavior is bad behavior. If you find yourself automatically thinking the worst of the opposition, and bending over backwards to find reasons why your guys couldn't possibly be guilty, it's time to check your ethical standards. They don't work on a sliding scale.

And back on topic, I invite everyone to read the transcript of Wilson's appearance on Nightline. The guy may have an agenda, but he definitely isn't a nutcase.

Good night and I wish everyone pleasant dreams. Remember, we all want the same things, we're just arguing about how we go about getting there.

For someone who professes to be so concerned with accuracy, one would think Mr. Moonbat Wilson would be more careful about what comes out of his own mouth.

Political Intelligence
The agenda behind the kerfuffle over Joe Wilson's wife.

Wednesday, October 1, 2003 12:01 a.m. EDT

We've been knocking our heads trying to figure out how a minor and well-known story about an alleged CIA "outing" has suddenly blossomed into a Beltway scandal-ette. The light bulb went off reading Monday's White House press briefing.

Right out of the box, Helen Thomas asked if "the President tried to find out who outed the CIA agent? And has he fired anyone in the White House yet?" OK, the point of this exercise is to get President Bush to fire someone. But whom? That answer became clear when the press corps quickly uttered, and kept uttering for nearly an hour, the name "Karl Rove."

Of course! The reason this is suddenly a story is because Mr. Rove, the President's political strategist and confidant from Texas, has become the main target. Joseph Wilson, the CIA consultant at the center of this mini-tempest, had recently fingered Mr. Rove as the official who leaked to columnist Robert Novak that Mr. Wilson's wife works for the CIA. Mr. Wilson has offered no evidence for this, and he's since retreated to say only that he now believes Mr. Rove had "condoned it." The White House has replied that the charge is "simply not true." But no matter, the scandal game is afoot...

[Link: www.opinionjournal.com...]

J.D.

The reason this story has blossomed is because someone within the administration revealed classified information that could endanger intelligence operations during time of war. This is normally referred to as treason and could lead to serious charges against members of the White House, including the President and his closest advisors. This is why the RNC has called it more serious than Watergate and why many conservatives have expressed outrage. If you think Joe Wilson is a whack job, take him out the equation and what you have left are still the facts: Someone in the administration leaked the name of a covert CIA employee to the press. That's not good.

There is a good editorial about Wilson seeking the limelight and publicity. That there is a question of whether she ever was a “covert” agent like they are claiming. That she may simply be a CIA employee.

No one who really knows Valerie Plame’s status at the CIA, such as her husband Joe Wilson wants to say.
And there is good reason why.
[Link: www.washingtondispatch.com...]

I happened to catch Wilson on Nightline last night and I am ashamed this man has been a foreign diplomate representing our country. What a poseur as "Allah" would say.

Cosmic,

The reason this story has blossomed is because someone within the administration revealed classified information that could endanger intelligence operations during time of war. This is normally referred to as treason...

You're exhibiting a classical trait of the modern day leftist. That trait is the willingness to try to imply moral equivalence in actions that aren't equivalent in order to justify leftists' behaviour. Even if your allegations are true, which has yet to be determined, the leak would fall far short of treason. Perhaps if the information was intentionally given to actual enemies you might have a case. Also you're suggesting that the team at the vanguard of the WoT would try to sabotage themselves, and you continue to imply that Wilson's wife was a field operative when reports that I've heard state that she wasn't.

As far as what private business dealings certain people have with foreign countries, that insinuation was appropriate to nothing. Teddy was dealing with the Soviets during the cold war to try to undermine US foreign policy apparently for his own political gain. If you want to go down the road of who has shady business dealings with shady countries, that's going to be spread around pretty evenly across party lines. Greed is universal.

Need we bring up all the military secrets that were sold to the Chi-Coms with the blessings of the Klinkton people. That was a real threat to US security.

azul,

First of all, to call me a leftist stretches the definition greatly. But I'll let that pass.

I was not suggesting moral equivalency. To do that I would have had to compare this action to another and I haven't. What I have said is that the outing of a covert agent is a crime and in a time of war (we are at war, aren't we?) I and many others would consider this an act of treason. Now, you may not. You may have a higher tolerance for criminal conduct than I do. But whether you consider it treason, it most definitely is a Federal offense, and a felony.

I'm willing to let time and an independent investigation prove me wrong about the perps in this. In fact, I hope I am wrong. But so far, objective reports indicate that there's something in the White House that doesn't smell right, and it ain't the French cheese.

I did not imply that Plame was a field agent, because I don't know, but I do know that the CIA considered her cover worth protection and that the blowing of her cover was worth a DOJ investigation.

Please, if you're going to debate my points, read what I write and not what you think I write. I try to make my points clear, concise and easily understood. Work with me, here.

As an off-topic aside, you were the one who started this thing about leaders dealing with foreign enemies. I just wanted to make sure you included the current resident of the Naval Observatory in your list of scallawags. To do otherwise is to reduce your position to one of mere politics instead of principle.

Just to be clear as to our definitions, if I say Cheney's actions are as reprehensible as Kennedy's, that is moral equivalency. When you suggest that they aren't, that's moral relativism.

That you spelled Clinton with a K tells me all I need to know about your open mind in this and other matters. That carries as much weight in this debate as if I called the President "Shrub." And please note that in all of my postings I have referred to the President with a capital P. That's because no matter how I feel about Mr. Bush, I am an American and I respect his office. Pity that's such an old-fashioned concept. But then I'm an old-fashioned kind of guy.

And probably to the left of you.

I and many others would consider this an act of treason.

You may consider it treason, but it wasn't. Treason is a very specific statute. They couldn't even get Jihad Johnny on treason. At best you're stretching, and depending upon Ms. Plame's position it may or may not be a felony.

Yeah, I spelled Clinton with a "K." I wanted to make it perfectly clear where I stand in regards to that administration. Unlike you I'm not going to pretend to be non-partisan. You imply a dislike for Bush, but I'm up front about stating my lack of respect for Kinkton.

Just to be clear as to our definitions, if I say Cheney's actions are as reprehensible as Kennedy's, that is moral equivalency. When you suggest that they aren't, that's moral relativism.

My claim is actually that their respective actions aren't even comparable.

I did not imply that Plame was a field agent, because I don't know, but I do know that the CIA considered her cover worth protection and that the blowing of her cover was worth a DOJ investigation.

I'm speculating here, but I'm guessing that the DOJ is all over this because of the politcal pressure not because there was grave damage to CIA operations.

#139 cosmic grappler

The guy may have an agenda, but he definitely isn't a nutcase.

Well, aside from backpedaling from his Rove assertion, statements like this don't enhance his credibility. At least not to me.

"Neo-conservatives and religious conservatives have hijacked this administration, and I consider myself on a personal mission to destroy both."

[Link: www.washtimes.com...]