bingo muthafuckas.

Excellent news!

No, no. This was clearly staged by the Zionist-CIA conspirators.

Probably was on their way to France.

JG

BUSH LIED!!!! BUSH LIED!!!

THERE'S NO WMDs in Ira...

uh oh.

48-hour rule, people.

Hey! Maybe Dubya didn't lie after all!

Dem press release: who knew and when did they know?

Ha! Wonder how Bush's critics will spin/disregard this.

What are the odds on this panning out? My take is that it is pretty good. This is an AP report. If they were going to screw up, it is unlikely that it would be in a way that makes Bush look good (even temporarily).

I say we let Teddy K. taste test 'em. After all, the war was a "fraud cooked up in Texas", wasn't it?

Note the other good news in the article:

Iraqi Interior Minister Nouri Al-Badran met on Tuesday with Sheik Nawwaf and discussed cooperation between the two countries in security matters. His visit is the first by an Iraqi interior minister to Kuwait since 1990.

The awful consequences of the Bushitler's war.

I bet this is driving the Indymediots batshit :-)

As I've said before, if the Republicans do as well next year as I expect, I expect the first LLL ™ 'splodeydope before '06.

Al-Siyassah appears to be affiliated with the Arab Times. Does anyone have any info on their credibility? I too am ready to begin the "I told you so" dance, but the 48 hour rule might be prudent.

BusHitler lies.

The Hindustantimes is all over it, too. Nothing on CNN yet.

I've gotta say I'm with Guy Smilee and KC on this one. Much as I'd be glad to hear it, I think the 48 hour rule, especially when dealing with arab sources, is in order.

Hi, everyone!

"We trust, but we verify..."

YOU SCOOPED DRUDGE BUDDY

absence of evidence was not evidence of absence. If this bears out, we got the evidence.

My bet: Headed for Belarus.

What's Belarus need nerve gas for?

Regretfully agree that given the sources, we can't say it's true just yet. This sort of thing has come up before.

As far as waiting 48 hours, that's a good rule of thumb, but best invoked when dealing with favorable sources (like DEBKA). The Arab news is unlikely to put out a story that makes the Americns look justified if it can possibly help it.

All the same, I'll take the news with a grain of salt.

#17 Bigsmoke

Or, headed for Chechnya. It would be very interesting to see how Putin would regard that news. Ahhh, we can hope...

If true, this is beautiful. They can't find them, because people are still hiding them! Duh!

BTW, I think I get it, but would someone spell out the 48 hour rule?

I s worldnetdailiy reliable.

I'm quaking with excitement. Please, please be true...

If this be true, then it's good news. Unfortunately, how many people are likely to hear about it, especially the fence-sitters who have a chance of getting smart on Islam. Evidence like this may actually convince a few people that the lefties may not be so smart or truthful as they make themselves out to be…

Still, any news like this is good news.

#21 nick

The original story is from the AP.

[Link: www.hindustantimes.com...]

These were planted by the BusHitler regime. Lies and the lying liars that lie beneath the land.

one question:

how do they get a value of 60 million? Is there a buyer's guide? Are these black market prices or anthrax-for-university-research prices?

Out of my price range anyway. Someday the lizard army will assume control of such weapons to be sure.

well there were two questions there.

#4 JG,

That was certainly my first thought when I saw "European country" After reflection, I'd say you are probably right.

This had to have State sponsorship. Ordinary criminals aren't interested about weapons on this scale (amateurs screwing around with this kind of crap are more likely than not to kill themselves). It would be slightly possible Serbia might have been interested, but I'd think they'd be more pragmatic than that.

We've already kicked their ass once in the past decade.

No, the Cheese-eating Surrender Monkeys are definitely the top candidate. They hate us (their government, anyway), they want us to fail, and they have enough chutzpa to think they could screw us this bad, and we'd still be pals.

If it is, we ought to sink that over-sized yacht they call an “aircraft carrier” as a friendly reminder that, if they want to fight in the Black Belt division, they’d better be up to it.

Like a buddy of mine says, “That Black Belt only covers 1 ¾” of your ass. You’d better be able to cover the rest.”

France might want to re-consider her position.

or 3

Just out of curiosity, what quantity of material represents "$60 million worth of chemical weapons and biological warheads"? It sounds like a lot, but then I'm not in the WMD business, and I don't want to apply a pricing scheme pertaining to US-made weapons, because US weapons are way more expensive. What do our military lizardoids say?

Spidly,

how do they get a value of 60 million?

I hope someone in Kuwait knows about such things.
AP, ha?

#20 Pablo

Regarding the "48 hour rule", read this: [Link: denbeste.nu...]

#26 spidly
It may have been the declared value on the export papers. Lots of paper when exporting.

If the story turns out to be true I have an idea for disposing of the weapons.

#26 spidly

LOL I just saw your post.

#32 Doug

As I figured. Gracias.

:If it is, we ought to sink that over-sized yacht they call
:an “aircraft carrier” as a friendly reminder that, if they
:want to fight in the Black Belt division, they’d better be
:up to it.

You do realize that the thing barely floats ...

-------------------------------------------------- -

French 'calamity' carrier heads for sea - again
By Julian Coman in Paris - Telegraph
(Filed: 11/03/2001)

ONE of the most embarrassing sagas in French maritime history took a further twist last week when France's most accident-prone warship began the countdown to another attempt to take to the high seas.

In the Ministry of Defence and on the quayside at Toulon, where the 40,000-ton aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle had been dry-docked, sceptical observers crossed their fingers and prayed for a fair wind.

The idea of France's first nuclear-powered carrier was dreamt up in 1986. It soon became a pet project of the then president, Francois Mitterrand. The ship that was built has proved, however, to be a humiliating and expensive naval failure. Fifteen years and £7 billion later, it has still to complete its first successful tour of service and has suffered a series of mishaps.

An attempt to go to sea in November ended characteristically in disaster somewhere in the Bermuda triangle. A substantial part of a 19-ton propeller broke off, obliging the carrier to limp back to southern France.

Since then, naval engineers have worked round the clock for three months in preparation for the next bid for seaworthiness. Last Tuesday, the vessel moved into the bay of Toulon proper. Its 1,950 crew are hoping for an April sailing, although no one was celebrating prematurely.

Frustration with the carrier has become palpable. Some of the more mutinous sailors of the Charles de Gaulle have taken to calling it "the damned ship [le bateau maudit]". The French minister of defence, Alain Richard, has promised to take whoever was responsible for the latest propeller debacle to court. He has even admitted that the Charles de Gaulle has become a subject of "ridicule".

It is not hard to understand why. The propeller incident was only one of a growing list of examples of mishap, misjudgment and mismanagement of the ship that was intended to be a symbol of French military prestige in the 21st century. "If you look back on the history of this ship," said one senior naval official, "it has just been a catalogue of errors."

Even the ship's name caused trouble. In 1986, President Mitterrand decided to call it the Richelieu, after the cardinal. In 1989, however, the Gaullist Jacques Chirac became prime minister. Mr Chirac believed that such a potent symbol of national pride should be named after the general who inspired his own political beliefs.

After a ferocious row, Mr Chirac prevailed. While the arguments raged, however, construction was falling further behind schedule. As economic recession began to bite in the 1990s, the project was starved of funding. On four occasions, work on the ship was suspended altogether. It was clear that the 1996 deadline for active service was wildly unrealistic.

Mr Chirac, then president of France, made a virtue out of necessity and decided that the Charles de Gaulle should become a millennium project, ready for service in 2000. After years of neglect, technical work and development began to be conducted at breakneck speed. By the late 1990s, the carrier was ready for its first proper sea tests, at which point things began to go even more awry.

The ship's flightdecks, it became clear, were too short to accommodate the American Hawkeye radar aircraft that France had bought for the vessel. In addition, the decks had been painted with a substance that eroded the arrest wires used to slow the aircraft as they landed.

The ship's electronics circuits weremalfunctioning, while its personnel, it emerged, were being exposed to unacceptable levels of radiation. The ship was simply not fit to sail. After many months of repairs, the Charles de Gaulle was relaunched last year on a cruise to Guadaloupe. Then the propeller problems began.

The firm that made the propellers, Atlantic Industries, went bankrupt in 1999. When the ship sails next month, it will borrow two propellers from older carriers. This time, the voyage must be a success. "If repeated mishaps don't finish a ship off, ridicule does," said Mr Richard. The French navy's communications officer in Toulon, Pierre Olivier is issuing similarly warnings. "Nothing must be left to chance for this trip," he said. "Everything must be in order this time."

Possible that our guys in Iraq were getting close and the bad guys just had to make a move. Lets see how much stuff there really is, then we can decide what to do with it.

CALL YOUR LOCAL RADIO STATIONS

What I'd like to know is how the Kuwatis were able to assess the street value of bio weapons and war heads like it was a cocaine bust. How did they determine it was woth $60m and by who's standard? It's just a rather odd point to focus on is all.

I mean if they found a nukes, for example, they wouldn't say that during sting operation we netted over 2 billions in fission warheads. I don't understand the dollar value assesment purpose. Just seems a rather odd why to describe Bio weapons.

18 Steve Johnson

I have read published reports, cites not retained, indicating Belarus assistance in Iraq's biological and chemical WMD development. The same reports indicated contingency plans to spirit the incriminating matter out of Iraq so they could be destroyed in a quiet way.

20 Pablo

Chechnya ? Belorus borders Russia. I doubt they would be so foolhardy.

#35 Tasty beverage

That would mean I am a slightly sharper lizardroid minion than you, if it were not for the fact that I repeatedly miscounted the number of questions in my own post.

There needs to be a WMD price list somewhere. One for drugs too. I get tired of this or that seizure being worth a gagillion dollars on the street but when you do the math, you couldn't make that much selling it inside the detox wing of an ass-pounding federal prison. Not that I have any Idea how much any street drug costs...

I wonder how much hasn't been caught....

They had to move it because Joe Wilson the 4th's wife figured out where it was!!!!! It's TRUE! I read it on Democratic Underground

/total dipstick off

This is much bigger than a columnist mentioning that an ideologue's wife was outed as a CIA analyst

I say the only reliable way to determine market price is to hold a little auction. How much for a gallon of botulism? Do I hear $1,000?

Ok, we'll throw in free delivery to Arafish. Let the bidding begin.

blammo, good point, it won't be long before the cries of "this is a plant to throw off attention from the dastardly WIlson-Plame affair!!"

#37 Big Lou

maybe they should just pull it into a spanish harbor and we could sink it for them

Kuwait is south of Iraq

Russia is north and through Pakistan or Iran....two countries much friendlier than Kuwait, crawling with Americans

wonder which European country

Fgfow:

I mean if they found a nukes, for example, they wouldn't say that during sting operation we netted over 2 billions in fission warheads

Nuclear materials do have a black-market price, and it's amazingly low... On a second thought, this does look too much like a drug-smuggling report.

No, no, no! Ignore this story. This is not the story you want! Please focus your video cameras on me, Abassador Joseph C Wilson the IV (esq). BusHitler and his staff (Karl "Himmler" Rove) outed my wife, Morgan Fairchild. (whom I have slept with! more than once!) Did I tell you that she was a spy? Yup, a secret agent. A double-naught spy. Matahari!!

*Shakes head* I dunno. Why would France BUY the WMDs? I could see the French helping to smuggle them out of the country to ensure we don't find them, but why BUY them?

The fact that they were being smuggled through Kuwait possibly indicates sea transport. However, I don't know of a hostile European country on the level of Serbia, and all the russian republics mired in Islamofacist terrorism are landbound.

However, there are a lot of african nations that might think having WMD might be useful.

One other possibility: A sting operation, conducted by Kuwaitis or someone else. In a case like this, however, they could be suckered too.

The timing is suspicious. I agree we should apply the 48 hour rule (wait 48 hours for confirmation).

#41 Bigsmoke

That depends on who's buying, and who's facilitating. The Chechnyan jihadis aren't known for their levelheadedness, any more than their Arab brethren are. They've done some pretty splashy things. More mass murder wouldn't surprise me. The cash could be Saudi.

I'm not suggesting that it's fact, just an interesting possibility.

#47
The libs have been saying for some time that if any are found at this point, it will be because we had to plant them to save face. If this report is validated, the excuse that they were planted will go down in flames, since the WMDs were found in Kuwait by Kuwaitis

Why limit suspects to state actors. Certainly the islamofascists have the means and the desire to acquire WMD. This is a more compelling theory if the $60m figure is inflated.

"were arrested 'in due time'"

In other words, the Kuwaiti police saw who they met with.

This is a statement from Ibrahim Hooper in the CAIR newsletter from yesterday.

"It's really sad, particularly coming from a man like Senator Schumer, to
see him trying to demonize a religious minority," Hooper said. "He should
know what happens when religious minorities are demonized; and it's not a
good thing."

Schumer, who is Jewish, was observing the Rosh Hashanah holiday Friday
afternoon and was, therefore, unavailable to respond to Hooper's allegations...

This is from their communications director. WTF?

#13
CNN is too busy bashing Rush Limbagh about the performance of a quarterback.....now that is serious!

OT: Could anyone tell me where I could get a list of the mass graves in Iraq? Only could find some news stories, but not any lists. Thaanx.

#40 Egfrow

How did they determine it was woth $60m and by who's standard? It's just a rather odd point to focus on is all.

That's an excellent question and point. Hopefully, we'll learn the answers in time. The Kuwaitis must know more than they have revealed thus far, if this story is true. It's possible that they have become aware of the details of some kind of business transation that was made for the weapons. If they knew the destination was Europe, they must have some other facts about this. Still, it's odd that they'd bring it up. Maybe they wanted to give the press at lease a few facts, and that was one of the only ones they felt was safe to reveal at this time.

I suspect the Presbyterians...

Everything has a cost to the Kuwaitis. They're just computing from the last price list in the NorKor WMD catalogue (got some great closeout missles last time around)

#52 Ptah

If this story is true the wmd was probably headed for Belarus or some lawless place like Moladavia, not France.

#37 big lou from brooklyn

Sacre blu! Zoot Allures! Dat sheep, eet iz, howyousay, a peez uv sheet!

What they didn't mention was the top-heavyness of the (snicker...) "warship" (guffaw...) due to the replica DeGaulle honker that they put on it in place of a proper bridge...

Lemme guess, its painted all white, right?

#54 Skinny&Balding.

If this report is validated, the excuse that they were planted will go down in flames, since the WMDs were found in Kuwait by Kuwaitis

I would not put anything past the conspiracy theorists. They'll say the Kuwaitis were paid or coerced into doing it, that U.S. or Israeli intelligence set-up the smugglers to be caught by Kuwait, take your pick. They aren't called the LLL for nuthin'! ;)

I'll bet the weapons were bound for England or France to be used in a terrorist attack, possibly on a metro system.

#62 K.

well a thorough anthrax decontamination would be a good way to keep that french ship in port for a good long time

Who here is voting "GWB" for 2004?

I know I am.

WAAAAAYYYYY O/T

But I had the best damn Reuben (corned beef + pastrami) sandwich at lunch today @ Kornblatt's. See? Being a member of the IZC has its benefits.

What have the Belgians been up to recently?

chemical weapons and biological warheads

The description of the munitions leads me to believe that the 48 hour rule is best. We've already found warheads/projos, but none that were filled. Could be this is only a large amount of metal.

I contend that the Rueben is absolute proof of the "whole is greater than the sum of the parts" theory. I mean, for years I would never even taste one because I hate sauerkraut, swiss cheese, and rye bread. But put them all together with some corned beef and russian dressing and wow. It's all I ever order anymore when I get sandwiches (except at Sam LaGrassas, where the Rumanian Pastrami is king).

It's those freaky deaky Dutch I tell you!

While, if true, this would be good news for Bush, there's a part of me that would prefer that none of those things existed still in Iraq -- after all, if people are still hiding them then there's always a chance that a) They know how to use them or b) they can get them to someone who does.

After all, if this does pan out, that would certainly suggest that there's "more where that came from" wouldn't it?

Ptah #52:

*Shakes head* I dunno. Why would France BUY the WMDs?

Because the WMDs matched their shoes?

Anyway, I'm with the "48 hour rule" people, much as I'd like to see this story pan out.

That may have been a bit off topic, but hey, I'm going to be trying to kill time for the next 47 and a half hours.

#45 - bleeding heart conservative - This is much bigger than a columnist mentioning that an ideologue's wife was outed as a CIA analyst

Nearly seven in 10 Americans believe a special prosecutor should be named to investigate allegations that Bush administration officials illegally leaked the name of a covert CIA operative to journalists, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

washington post

---------------------------

#66 - Egfrow - Who here is voting "GWB" for 2004? I know I am.

With his popularity at an all-time low in New York, President George Bush would lose the state to any of the top Democratic challengers if the election were held today, according to a new poll.
Democrats Gain Edge Over Bush Among New York Voters

what's that smell?

oh, it's you.

#75

No one, and I mean NO ONE ever expected or expects GWB to carry New York in '04. No big surprise in that clip.

Ahem, your cut & paste is devastating, as usual.

Ahem,
go to the appropriate threads

being a lowly minion I am not able to put the whole story together but I am sure that this benefits us however it turns out,and that a french ship is involved as are the dutch, and captured Mossad agents....

It's like I hear this faint buzzing or something...

#74 Evil Genius
(mickthemick as Homer Simpson) MMMMMMMMM....Reuben Sandwiches. ARRGLGLLLLLLLLL!!!! An all-time personal fave..

Anybody here ever take a call from a pollster? Has anybody in this entire enormous conspiracy ever been included in the great American poll racket? I'm curious.
I, for one, have never been called. And I suspect an entire slice of the population either never gets called or is too smart or busy to get sucked into talking to some telemarketer/pollster (Caller ID anyone?).

My point: waving poll results around is rather dipstickical.

Just my opinion, 4% error.

#83 blammo

unlisted, on no-call list and all remaining calls are screened - double secret ring sequence for family.

#77 - evil genius - No one, and I mean NO ONE ever expected or expects GWB to carry New York in '04. No big surprise in that clip.

OF course nobody expects Bush to carry New York in '04

But that's not the news from the poll.. The news is :

1) Bush is at an all-time low popularity rating - 42% (down from 52 in june)
2) *any* of the top democrats could beat him, even losers like Dick Gephardt or Joe Lieberman who nobody likes

Evil genuis

sum being better than parts, mostly, but the corned beef and pastrami at Kornblatt's are so divine, they'd make dirt taste like heaven. The two together on warm, fried bread mit kraut und swiss, impossibly good.

And people wonder why I'm a Zionist...

new poll time since we're on the subect

Hmmmm, what poll could include VFI and Ahem?

Ahem--

The election's a year from now. Bush isn't even campaigning at the moment.

Don't you think maybe the Dems will have burned out their flame if news like this keeps happening, casualties in Iraq continue to get further and further between, and the economy continues to rebound?

They gotta pace themselves.

In New York somebody that makes a good Reuben could probably be elected President. I'd vote for him if Gebhardt were the other choice.

See how I tie all the topics together? Reubens, New York voters, Kuwait's discovery.....oh, hell, 2 out of 3?

I actually have a bit of experience in the political realm.

Here are a few things to look at when judging a poll:

First of all, what is the universe? If they sample adults, then it's pretty useless. Why? Because only a small percentage of adults vote. So who cares what someone thinks if they're not a voter? I don't.

The next thing is sampling registered voters. Not bad, but not good. Only about half of registered voters actually vote. So once again, you're not exactly getting an accurate predictor.

The best polls are identified as sampling "likely voters". In the early questions of the poll, the caller asks how likely the respondent is to vote in the coming election. You're able to weed out people who are registered but won't actually vote.

So what does this all mean? Well (sorry to the liberals of the world) people who are not registered to vote are disproportionately democrat leaning, whereas people who are registered are disproportionately (as opposed to their percentage in the total population) Republican leaning. So any poll that samples "adults" is not only useless in predicting election results, it is also almost guaranteed to produce a democrat-leaning skewed result. To be perfectly honest, the only reason why a news group would ever commission a "adults" poll - knowing that they're useless in predicting elections - would be to...

produce deliberately skewed results that still stand up to statistical analysis.

In other news, a LGF thread was hijacked by the usual suspect, but the authorities hope that it will return to topic shortly.

Here's what I posted over at Lucianne:

Here's a horrid thought:

What if terrorists were TARGETING a European country, say Great Britain, e.g.

Or am I missing something?

MonkeyPants
Imperial Lizardoid Trainer

#86 hobgoblin

this'll sound terrible but I actually prefer the uptowner at Rose's - thousand island instead of russian but then what is russian dressing but thousand island with international aspirations.... girlfriend hates the open pickle jars at Kornblatt's too as she has an old food thing. For some reason she does not see that 24 hours in the box actually make pizza better.

Top 10 things that won't happen if this is true:

10. UN Security Council passes resolution apologizing for obstructing the coalition for "waging this necessary and just war."

9. French wake up and realize that, once again, history will view them as sniveling, whining, selfish wusses. Daily bathing mandated and school curricula revised to include courses entitled, “The first democracy: Why we gave the United States the Statute of Liberty.”

8. Kofi Annan resigns in shame. Accepts 3rd shift position with 7-Eleven somewhere in New Jersey.

7. Tom Daschle gives long winded speech on Senate floor pointing out that this may not have been the only shipment of WMD out of Iraq and stating that we should have left things well enough alone with Saddam so that the WMD would have stayed put. (No wait . . . That WILL happen if this is true. Sorry).

6. New York Times will run a 6 part series entitled, “What we missed: A critical examination of our ill-considered opposition to the Iraq war”.

5. Peter Jennings will admit on the air that when he heard the news he, “cried bitter tears of disappointment.”

4. In an entire week of CNN broadcasts, more than 12 verifiable facts are reported.

3. LGF will get credit as the first western source to report the story.

2. A democratic presidential candidate will state, “Politics must stop at the water’s edge. This was a great victory for all Americans and I congratulate the administration on a job well done!”

And the number 1 thing that won’t happen if this is true . . .

1. Ted Kennedy admits that some pretty good things are “cooked up” in Texas.

Great news, if it's true. 48 hour rule, as many have said.

In the words of psychobabble: no troll can hijack a thread without our consent.

Or
Lord, grant me the serenity to ignore the trolls,
the courage to debate with honest opponents,
and the wisdom to know the difference.

and

DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS

and finally

GAZE

The Bush campaign will not spend any money in New York in '04.

They didn't in '00.

And Gore didn't spend any money in Texas in '00.

And the dem nominee wont in '04 either.

Please don't come into my political kitchen with popularity polls in an irrelevant electoral state more than a year before the election against an unnamed democrat opponent upon whom no one has yet to lay a glove.

Oh yeah. Sorry about the troll feeding. I've been away for a while.

And I'm trying to mindlessly kill the next 47 hours and fifteen minutes.

What an excellent day for the new Bill Whittle essay, Power to appear.

Here's a few choice nuggets:

The United States is often referred to as a childish country, an adolescent nation, young and strong and stubborn, but unsophisticated and unseasoned. Up until a short while ago, there may have been some truth to this, for there is one adolescent quality that has long marked the American psyche when involved overseas, and that is the desire to be liked by everyone. As we mature as individuals (and this is not a universal phenomenon – yes, I’m talking to you, Sheryl Crow), we begin to realize that not only is it impossible to be liked by everyone… it is, in fact, repugnant. I do not want to be admired by scumbags and liars and wife beaters. I want to be admired by good and decent, intelligent and just people, and in order to achieve this I need to do things that make me despised by their opposites.

As we began to fight back against the worldwide terror network, their corrupted ideology, and the states that harbor them, I and many of my fellow countrymen were shocked to discover all of the sympathy and affection generated by our status as victims suddenly evaporated the moment we decided to utilize our power to try to put an end to this threat. We were counseled by our moral superiors that terrorism was a fact of life in this new millennium – best just to ignore it as much as possible, and not make things worse by poking it with a stick. And as for all those new skyscrapers and super-jumbo airliners and all those other dreams…forget it. Too much of a target. Who would ever want to inhabit the building replacing the fallen towers? The terrorists will just blow it up again. Better to build a park or something less provocative.

How very…French.

AND

Up until very recently, Terror was growing because Terror worked. Now for the first time, Terror – Terror as a political tool -- has been met with real power. Two governments have fallen, and contrary to the stated expectations of these savages, ours was not one of them. Terror, for the first time in modern memory, now has attached to it negative consequences. Consequences that have been severe. Severe, indeed – fatal in a great many cases. And all of a sudden, Terror does not look like such a great bargain after all.

There is a word for this phenomenon. That word is deterrence.

Prior to Iraq, prior indeed to Afghanistan, we were told by the natural cowards that get paid by the catastrophe that to fight back would unleash world-wide Jihad. Suicide bombers would be a weekly – daily – occurrence at malls and football games. These deep, deep thinkers assured us that if we so much lifted a finger in our defense our society would collapse in the flames of righteous retribution. We defied these defeatists and fought back anyway. As I have said many times, this was an experiment. The results are data.

Al-Qaeda, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and all the others have the means to launch a wave of suicide bombings in the US. It is not that very difficult. They have not done so. Why?

Because if current events are any guide, such an action would mean the immediate end of Hamas and the rest of their ilk. They are cold-blooded murderers, but they are not idiots. The cost of terror – in the US at least – is nowadays higher than the rewards.

History is crystal clear on one point, and that is that power – the exercise of raw military and political force – is the only effective cure for dictators and fascists, whatever flag they fly. It is not only morally justified to confront such evil; it is immoral not to do so.

I once saw a really great movie. Mr. Hollands' Opus. There was some kind of scandal involving the star, I think . . .

must go get VINDALOO

94 KC -

LGF was not the first to report it; ChuckG in the previous thread on the Mossad capture had a link pointing to Jonah Goldberg who had it first on The Corner of NRO.

Oh, no, not Mr. Hollands' Opus....not that, please!

(shrivels up into dessicated troll-like object with bright blue hair)

Yeah, but who reads NRO?

SDB and Lileks are HERE, man. And so is the WSJ.

Lord, grant me the serenity to ignore the trolls,
the courage to debate with honest opponents,
and the wisdom to know when to post a reference to Mr. Holland's Opus.

wordwarp #103

I type corrected.

I've been waiting for this for the last several hours!

We're going to need to get this bugger vetted, but I think we've finally reached the river. If this pans out, I will bet that the DNC has collectively wet their pants!

"Mr. Clark, Mr. Daschle, Mr. Gebhart, Mr. Mrs./Clinton, would you care for a change of pants?"

Yeah, well, the Kuwaitis would just say this because they're grateful for the US saving them from Saddam Hussein and because they're not French. It's a conspiracy!

drooling tool off/

Big deal, Ahem. Polls can be skewed any way you please just by how you phrase the questions, and the public is notoriously fickle. Proves nothing. But keep hope alive if it makes you feel better.

If one of the Democrat contenders actually does win in 04 (and the Clintons are going to make sure that doesn't happen with their sock puppet General Clark because as always its all about them) we can all sit back and watch the Republicans treat him just like the Dems did Bush. The trash and burn cycle will never end, while the country gets weaker, and weaker, and our enemies laugh and wait for their chance.

But, hey, as long as "our side" wins the election, who gives a fuck, right?

yeah I have, but the questions were so obviously designed to provide answers supporting a particular point of view that I hung up after the second argument with the "pollster"

#110 dgd: Thanks, I suspect I would give the phoneclone a hard time too. Any other minions have any poll experience?

If a an Arab news source reported this...it's gotta be true. (Cuz CNN wouldn't)

It's a Lutheran Conspiracy!

Headed for Europe?

Balkans, anyone?

Yep, 48 hour rule.

Hobgoblin et al, where is Kornblatt's? I've been to Katz's and 2nd Ave Deli in Manhattan, Shopsy's in Toronto, and some other big joint in Cleveland. I must say I don't like my pastrami slathered in Russian dressing. I prefer it straight up with mustard.

Uh wait, I didn't mean for that to sound sexual.

It's a damned shame that the no-call list didn't include political pollsters. I'd like to see the talking heads do their political commentary without the benifit of poll numbers.

All righty, then. Probably wasn't the first one, but just sent FoxNews the link from LGF to the WMD story.

So the waiting begins...I smell a puliter for Charles...(drumming fingers)...

dgd:

That was actually a candidate-sponsored poll, or vulnerability study. (btw, it is NOT a push poll, although the press usually mislables it as such.)

A vulnerability study will ask a series of things such as:

Do you support John Kerry?

Would you be more or less likely to support John Kerry if you knew he molests collies?

Do you support Howard Dean?

If you knew that Howard Dean stood up to the special interests in Vermont would you be more or less likely to vote for him?

(remember, this is made up.)

This would be a poll done by the Dean campaign to test where their strengths and where their opponents weaknesses are.

OT but has Allah been outed?

My vote for who Allah is: Ali G

Any other minions have any poll experience?

#111 andthenblammo

Twice, Clinton-Monica the weekend the Starr report was published and the Presidential race and campaign topics in 1996. The former was very straightforward, the latter ridiculously phrased, I answered the first, refused to participate in the second.

Polling is a joke. Unless pollsters are willing to release the percentage of those that they called who would not answer/participate, the notion that they are reaching a representative population has got to be rejected out of hand.

I always assumed that Allah was Iowahawk

Well, one bad sign about this story is that it's not up on AP's website yet.

#122

Yeah, I checked that also, Ariel.

Not there, not on CNN, not on Fox, not on Rueters, not on Drudge, not on NYTimes, not on WaPo either.

To Ahem, GWB will Carry NY at around 89%. NY Still remembers 9/11 and they can connect the dots...

Just to clarify: Allah != iowahawk

GWB to Hillary, "Honey, would you go get us boys some coffee," and the audible smack of his hand on her prodigeous rump!

Totally OT:
I just picked up the CD TANZ! by Dave Tarras and the Muziker Brothers and it rocks my world. Can anyone recommend any good klezmer??

To Ahem, GWB will Carry NY at around 89%. NY Still remembers 9/11 and they can connect the dots...

NY is a Democrat stronghold. In the NYC are alone you will frequently see 80-20 percentage splits for donkeys.

Nobody expects Bush to carry the state, nor does it really matter. He didn't need it last time, he won't need it this time. I do think the election will be close, especially if Wesley Clarke gets the nomination.

but is iowahawk < allah or is iowahawk > allah?

WMD's on the way to Europe?

With what I know about the French, maybe because summer was soooooooo short, they needed some help finishing off the rest of those pesky old French people....

#125

Allah, you most beneficient deity, you.

If I promise to bang my head on the floor six times a day for the rest of my life, could you see fit, in all of your gloriousness, to arrange a date with this most splendid Jew temptress?

Yair # 128, Wesley Clark is not going to do anything. He's a book mark for Hillary, and if, I repear "if" the Kuwaiti's have encountered the Iraqi WMD's on their way to wax French pensioners, GWB is solid gold through a second term. Find me one working, patriotic American living in NYC who isn't grateful to GWB after this, and I'll show you a DNC shill or SUNY Professor. The worm has turned...

#127 RachelCorriePancakes: I strongly suggest the group Les Yeux Noirs--try their CD Balamouk. They don't limit themselves to klezmer music, but they're still my favorite.

Ahem,
Not trying to beat a dead horse, but the Repubs don't need New York. They have a larger state locked up already, Texas.

Yair, besides, we still have Florida....TATA

Any thoughts that these WMDs could have been heading to...ohhh..Hamburg as a stop over on their way to New York/Jersey/Boston? Customs would probably look a little less harder at a shipment coming from Germany than it would from the Middle East. Again, all speculation.

Pray to Allah all want, I’m praying to Iowahawk.

O Iowahawk the merciful, the powerful. Make the ground shake under the feet of the jewess Laetetia if she rejects my affection. Let every tree and rock call out “O mujahid, there’s a babe hiding behind me – come and get her.”

You pray to your G-d, I’ll pray to mine and we’ll see who gets laid first infidel.

OT:

The latest from Daniel Pipes

#137 Gordon

You pray to your G-d, I’ll pray to mine and we’ll see who gets laid first infidel.

Gordon?? LOL

It's on Drudge, #124, at least it was before the site was overwhelmed with the latest Limbaugh scandal. It's also on Instapundit.

FWIW, I hope this is true too, but I'm holding my breath. As for the European country involved, two guesses:

1. If it's actually a government, Belarus.

2. If it's not a government but terrorist groups inside a country, France or Germany. But this last is a wild guess. Terrorists, as we all know, can be anywhere. And I think it's just as likely this shipment (if it indeed exists) was not headed for a government at all, but a cell somewhere in Europe.

Anyone find any other sources carrying this story?

All the major news outlets have nothing. It is not even on the AP site.

I am beginning to think this is BS.

#132 BulgarWheat

We shall see.... There are certainly many grateful people in NY, grateful for Afghanistan and Iraq. But party roots run deep.

Roger, did you see it on Drudge?

I checked soon after Charles made the original post but didn't see anything on Drudge.

Why in the hay does Drudge erase all existing headlines when he puts up something like the Rush Alert?

If one hits the "Recent Headlines" link, it brings one back to yesterday's news. I can't find any of todays other headlines.

Man, what's a guy gotta do to get a hat tip around here??

How reliable is a Kuwati newspaper? I highly doubt it.

#132 BulgarWheat

P.S.: I think you mean Columbia professors, not SUNY. Lot's of conservative professors, BTW, they just don't make very much noise.

P.P.S.: Why is Clark a "bookmark for Hillary"?

Yair, # 142

Party roots?! Party roots!? When people needed to extract parts of colleagues bodies from underneath the rubble, when calls were made to loving families, and when widowed mothers had to explain to small children that Daddy was not going to come home,....

Party roots, my pink arse!

We are in World War III. It could have been dealt with with the previous administration, it could have been averted. Folks from NYC are many things, but noone has ever referred to them as pu$$ies. I think GWB is going to astound the ivory tower intellectuals. GWB, okay, maybe not 89%, we'll settle for 85%.

ciao

From msnbc.com:
"Still, prosecutors yesterday disclosed a wealth of new evidence aimed at showing that, at a minimum, Alamoudi has privately sympathized with terrorists. In a secretly recorded conversation after the 1998 bombing of two U.S. embassies in Africa, Alamoudi called the attacks by Al Qaeda “wrong” but then added: “What is the result you achieve in destroying an embassy in an African country? I prefer to hit a Zionist target in America or Europe ... I prefer, honestly, like what happened in Argentina ... The Jewish Community Center. It is a worthy operation.” (The reference was apparently to the July 18, 1994, car-bombing of a Jewish community center in Buenos Aires that killed 86 people.) U.S. Judge Theresa Buchanan ordered Alamoudi held without bail after the hearing. "

Alamoudi was feted by both the Clinton and Bush administrations even after being investigated for ties to terrorists...

This just in:

(Reuters) Cherbourg, France
"The Charles de Gaulle was relaunched last year on a cruise to Guadaloupe. Then the problems began when the propeller's rubber bands reacted negatively with the Atlantic's salt water." ;)

My money is on the Monegasques.

OT. I'm talking to someone who says

----However, in the Muslim community, there are are a minority of people, mostly Shiite Muslims who want to kill Christians and Jews. The Suni (sp?) Muslims are much more peaceful and do not take the Koran that literally.

I'm really not too sure about the difference between the two sects. Does anyone know about the Sunni?

...according to Kuwaiti newspaper Al-Siyassah. The pro-government daily reports...

Yeah, this might spell trouble for reliability.

# 150, I think Sunni was a song in the 60's...

Bah,

This story is BS. I have look at most major news sources on the web. Nada.

Since the AP site has nothing about this, I would assume the AP byline in the Hindustan article is bullshit.

Ok, so I cannot find any reference to this news item anywhere else but WND. Not on google news anywhere.

Wait, the Hindustan Times, which is just the same AP article at WND. Nobody else seems to be breaking this.

#150 Lively

Your source doesn't know what they're talking about. The vast majority (say, 90%) of Muslims are Sunni, so they cover the whole gamut, including the "radical, fringe" splodey-dopes in Palestan and OBL. Many Sunnis, in fact, hate the Shi'ites because they consider the Shi'ites to be polytheists for some reason. Sunnis who are rabidly Islamic take the Qur'an just as seriously as Shi'ites who are rabidly Islamic.

Learn the Truth about Islam

#94 KC

That was really funny. Thanks! :)

It could be dubious if....

If the New York Post broke the story, then it would be really dubious! Since it's the Hindu Times, maybe it's legitimate. Time will tell----48 hour rule

OT

An actual AP story:

Letters to God End Up at Western Wall

JERUSALEM - Ever felt your prayers went unanswered? Try sending a letter to God and chances are it will end up — as many do each year — at an Israeli post office in Jerusalem, where they are read and sent on to the holy Western Wall.

The letters come from all over the world in a host of languages. The elderly ask for good health. Others seek heavenly remedies for debts, relationship assistance, or help finding jobs. Children mainly ask God to spring them from homework assignments. The trickle of requests turns into a flood around Christmas and the Jewish holidays.

"We have hundreds and thousands of letters sent to either God or Jesus Christ and for some unknown reason they all come to Jerusalem," said Yitzhak Rabihiya, a postal spokesman.

Sorry Allah. The post office sez you're a false deity.

#158 SoCalJustice:

where they are read and sent on to the holy Western Wall.

I don't know why but that is touching to me.

Now available on
WorldNetDaily

YEs, I did see it on Drudge, but it is now gone, due to Limbaugh fascination (include me out on that one). I hope the story's true, but I'm skeptical at this point.

OT---look at this BS! unfuckingbelievable

lefty loonies strike again

This is really great news - assuming it pans out. The fact that it's AP gives me hope - forging an AP byline would be a pretty serious no-no.

Note that the troll attempted to derail the thread by talking about a totally irrelevant topic. Typical. And, of course, not a peep about what good news this is, pending verification. And that's because it would be the worst possible news for the Indymidiots and the LLL, which have invested so much energy fulminating about the fact that Saddam's WMD aren't just sort of lying around on the ground in plain view waiting for us to come along and pick them up.

The WMD are in Syria, and some of them have found their way to Kuwait on their way somewhere else to be used in some creative and interesting manner in the civilized world. Could be Spain. Could be a former SSR. Could be Albania or Greece. After all, the Greeks never met a terrorist they didn't like.

#162

No biggie. If the kid wants to advertise his stupidity, let him.

#164 - I agree. Twenty years from now, he'll be overwhelmed by embarassment. And this is clearly a First Amendment slam-dunk.

Weren't there stories going around during the UNSCOM WMD searches in Iraq that France was tipping the Iraqi's off to where the next inspections were going to be? This story hasn't passed the 48 hour test yet, but I wouldn't put it past the French to try to get any WMD that didn't make it to Syria out of the country so the US would never find it.

Nothing the French do would surprise me. They are a decrepit socialist post-Christian country whose leaders will gladly sell the country into dhimmitude for some extra Muslim votes, while young vacationers are too busy taking long vacations to see if their own grandparents are alright during an extreme heatwave.

I hope the DeGaulle does sink. The French Navy hasn't sunk a ship since their brave mission against the Greenpeace Rainbow Warrior.

F*ck France, and F*ck Ahem. If Islam and the French are so great, and America and Israel are so bad, move.

And didn't a French military type get busted for tipping off the Serbs about air strikes during Clinton's Balkan intervention that's still going on seven frickin' years later?

But that's not a Quagmire! (TM New York Times, Inc.)

#166 Ed Moran-

Also the Russians were supposedly advising Saddam and facilitating the hiding or transportation of the WMD's, whether to Syria's Bekka valley, Belarus or whevever. Saddam&Co couldn't have been intelligent enough to have been responsible for how hard it has been to find them.

Some rumours were that Saddam was in fact dead and buried in the Russian Embassy. I'd check the French one, too.

I predict that the LLL reaction to this (if it turns out to be true) will be that it just proves their point that invading Iraq was a bad move because it has lead to the proliferation of Saddams WMD to terrorist groups and foreign powers in the aftermath of the war.

167 andthenblammo!-

Clinton had no business in there. Those people have been at for nearly 1500 years, the only way to solve it is to let them end it themselves. It is, in fact, a civil war. It was Europe's call, not ours.

If muslims were invading the US I would hope the rest of the world would let us repel them-

Oh wait, they are invading us.

Never mind.

dunno if this has been posted yet..

[Link: www.command-post.org...]

As a Chrisitan, I demand restitution or, better yet, the immediate return of the Sofia Hagia , as usual, the nicest thing of it's kind in "Islam" and they stole it from a superior people.

#124 - bulgarwheat - To Ahem, GWB will Carry NY at around 89%. NY Still remembers 9/11 and they can connect the dots

That's funny! Here in lower manhattan, where I have lived since 1997, the 9/11 families have been on TV quite regularly criticizing the Bush administration for impeding a full investigation of the intelligence failures... They don't want what happened to them to happen to others.

Reuters - May 26, 2002
Daschle: Bush, Cheney urged no Sept. 11 inquiry

Washington - Both President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney urged Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle four months ago not to push for an investigation into the events of Sept. 11, Daschle said on Sunday.

Appearing on the NBC program "Meet the Press," Daschle flatly contradicted Cheney, who last week denied he had warned Daschle off an investigation.

------------------------------

Re: This thread - talk about grasping at straws... a "worldnet daily" article that references what was supposedly written in some super obscure kuwaiti paper, which in turn is attributing quotes to mysterious "unnamed sources"

Who the hell puts out "worldnet daily" anyway ? Lyndon LaRouche or something ?

At this point, I'd guess that the chances of this turning out to be a real story are less than 1%. And the chances of it being any significant amount (according to the Bush regime, there are supposed to be *hundreds* of tons of WMD right?) are probably 0.001%

#87 spidly
"new poll time since we're on the subect

Hmmmm, what poll could include VFI and Ahem?"

Who could produce the most hideous troll offspring?
Possible contestants: 1)VFI and Ahem 2) ConventBabe and Robert Ingersoll

#162 meredithv
"OT---look at this BS! unfuckingbelievable
lefty loonies strike again "

From the article:
"An assistant principal had ordered Barber in February to conceal the anti-Bush message or go home. Dearborn High said it worried about inflaming passions at the suburban Detroit school, where a majority of students are Arab-American. "
Wonder why he thought the shirt would inflame passions? Sounds like he'd fit right in among his homies.

#169 Barry Crocker,

I predict that the LLL reaction to this (if it turns out to be true) will be that it just proves their point that invading Iraq was a bad move because it has lead to the proliferation of Saddams WMD to terrorist groups and foreign powers in the aftermath of the war.

But of course! Like, duh!

#171 -

Great news!!!

Since the AP site has nothing about this, I would assume the AP byline in the Hindustan article is bullshit.

I agree. I wish I could believe the story, but I think it's fraudulent. Others have already mentioned the reference to $60 million worth of WMDs.

WTF?

Drudge is linking to the Hindustan Times again.

Oh please, please, please be true.

Ahem.
What will you do or say if it turns out that Kuwaitis did apprehend bio or chem weapons?

Whether it will be a significant quantity is anybody's guess.

France is probably trying to buy them BACK!

For all the moral equivalence Islamonazi sympathizing trolls out there, kiss my ass:

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

The defense attorney complained that the defendants got more severe sentences than Arab terrorists get.

Please cite even ONE instance where the P.A. has sentenced even ONE terrorist to jail for 12-15 years.

Just ONE.

If you can't, STFU.

Catbert,

Isn't Dearborn/ Detroit, the Iraqi neighborhood that erupted in joy after Saddam's statue fell in Baghdad?

166 Ed Moran in I Confettius & Iron Fist

Doesn't it seem weird that the Frogs would build *one* aircraft carrier? I mean, either you have an effective navy with a substantial fleet, or you screw it and don't have one, or focus on lighter grade vessels for coastal patrolling. What happens if that one ship gets torpedoed? There goes your one and only carrier! A military force is going nowhere without redundancy.

It's like the froggies will attack someplace with 20 PT boats and 1, uh, aircraft carrier.

What will you do or say if it turns out that Kuwaitis did apprehend bio or chem weapons?

Yay!

Bush was right!

My only cause for optimism (that this story is still possible) is this -- it's only 6AM in the Middle East at the moment (8PM as I post in LA) -- we shouldn't expect news out of that area for another two or three hours at least. If I don't hear some amplification when I wake up tomorrow, I for one will assume it's dead.

How could Bush or Blair have been wrong: he said all along that Iraq has failed to account for quantities determined to be there by UNSCOM in 1998. That is 100% true and no proof need ever be found for that to be true. Iraq failed to account for missing stockpiles. Fact.

I really hope for congress, Cohen and Clinton's sake there were WMDs, or they'll be accused of lying too, in the Iraq Liberation Act and before Desert Fox...

oh, wait......

This is a very odd story, probably aggravated by less than optimum language skills among the Kuwaitis and poor reporting by AP.
If the Kuwaitis are going to hand over the stuff to the FBI, that would imply that it is physically in Kuwait and not just being peddled by a gang that happens to be in Kuwait.
That is not impossible, there has been a lot of traffic across the border since the war, transport conditions are chaotic and Kuwait City is the nearest usable seaport to Iraqi territory (Basra is still not at full capacity and is occupied by the British anyway).
On the black-market, chemicals would have the lowest value, biologicals quite a bit higher and nuclear the highest of all.
I agree that the most likely destination is some Euro-fringe shithole like Belarus.
The dollar-value is probably based on the investigators' direct knowledge of the price agreed between the smugglers and the buyers.

I was polled, but it was on a Friday that I had off at 4 o'clock in the afternoon, and they asked for the hispanic family that had the number before I did.
The pollster honestly didn't seem to care if I didn't speak spanish as long as she got howevermany surveys done.

#62
I'll just have to get out my Che Guevara-Dead Hippy t-shirt and wear it to the Lilith Festival.

I hope those egg-addled Kuwaiti journalists are not scratching our scales.

#180-

At this point, I'd guess that there's a less than 1% chance Ahem will respond if the story turns out to be true.

Fleetlord Atvar...? I thought you were Shiplord Kiriel, your second-in-command.

Why would you want to be Atvar, anyway? I would rather serve under the military leadership of Billary Clinton than Atvar, and that says a lot, given my opinion of the Bill.

n/m, just more "Worldwar" fans. Anybody know when the heck Turtledove will get "Homeward Bound" out?

HOLY SHIT ! ! ! IS THIS TRUE ? ANSWER ANYONE !!! PLEASE....THIS WILL MAKE MY DAY

Credit where credit is due.

The story was posted at FreeRepublic 4 hours before Charles posted it.

FreeRepublic.com "A Conservative News Forum"
-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------
[ Browse | Search | Topics | Post Article | My Comments ]

Click to scroll to commentary.

Kuwait Foils Biochem Arms Smuggling From Iraq
Dow Jones Newswires ^ | October 1 | AP

Posted on 10/01/2003 12:37 PM PDT by Pete

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

#191
Truth, Exalted Fleetlord. I think I like our universe a lot better than this one, even though the Big Uglies gave us a hard time. At least we got to nuke the Nazis and put Khomeini out of business early.

FWIW, I spoke to an Indian friend and he said that the Hindustan Times is a reputable source. So there's an outside chance that this is real.

Could this be a set-up by those who would like to get everyone's hopes up so we can all be more disappointed than usual when Dr. Kay announces he has nothing tomorrow?

#193 "Taro"
"I would rather serve under the military leadership of Billary Clinton than Atvar,"

You would, would you? Thanks to our official historian, Harry Turtledove, we now know that the traitor Shraha was resident in Arkansas shortly before Bill Clinton was hatched.
hmmmm, could it be?

It's a hoax. The Arab paper in question knows nothing about the whole thing.

Shit happens.

#180 - Bleeding Heart Conservative - What will you do or say if it turns out that Kuwaitis did apprehend bio or chem weapons?

I will eat a print edition of WorldNet Daily (oh wait it's some kooky fringe website that has no print edition)

There are basically no facts in this article, so It depends on a number of factors:

1) What kind of WMD are they talking about ? If it's castor beans or something that's a lot different than weaponized VX gas or a nuclear bomb

2) Is it weaponized ?

3) Is it all the chemicals needed to make a WMD or, just some dual-use chemical that is useless without certain key ingredients which are not present

3) Can it be proven that it's Iraqi? that it's not 20+ years old ?

4) Is it a considerable amount? - Bush claimed there were hundreds of tons of the stuff all over Iraq. If this is a single test tube or even a car trunk-full of dual-use chemicals or something, then it's meaningless in regards to the reasoning for invading Iraq.

If the story turns out to be any form of real, usable WMD at all then I will be wrong about my 1% prediction, and if it turns out to be a seriously substantial amount then I would additionally be wrong about my 0.001% prediction.

If it is WMD, and it is Iraqi, then the poster in #169 had a good point when he wrote:

"...invading Iraq was a bad move because it has lead to the proliferation of Saddams WMD to terrorist groups and foreign powers in the aftermath of the war."

Forget the museums - The US let people loot the nuclear sites for days, for fuck's sake!

"Hoax Buster" is in Germany.

GAZE!!

Anyone else like Worldwar but think that Colonization was crap?

Now the AP story is posted on Lucianne Goldbergs site. It's a little after midnight and since there's no news to the contrary there's still hope.

#193 Junior Nuisance Taro:

I would never admit this before our people, but the traitor Straha understood the Big Uglies better than I did. He was egg-addled, but he spoke truth.

You know, now that you mention it, I've never actually seen Mr. Holland's Opus But, I feel I know it somehow.........

And your point, Charles?

[Link: www.al-seyassah.com...]

Bush: "Gee, Dick, these headlines about someone in the White House breaking federal law by blowing that 30-year CIA operative's cover are everywhere. She's been risking her ass for America since before I went AWOL from my duty protecting Texas from the Mexican airforce in the Texas National Guard. Now we look like total backstabbers."

Cheney: "Yep the headlines sure are bad, Shrub Junior. Really bad. We need to make this go away 'big time'. Maybe we had better plant that emergency vial of 'evidence' we sent over for use in case of an emergency"

/fantasy mode off

or is it?

#211

She's 40. That Johnson guy is full of manure.

Did you see the remake of Mr. Hollands' Opus? Turns out that Richard Dreyfuss shot JFK while serving as an agent for the Zionist press. He was a HOLLYWOOD actor you know and that place is crawling with Jews.

Still, I sure did like Close Encounters of the Third Kind. What was the name of that guy that directed that one?

I'm a devotee of a much earlier Dreyfuss work myself: The Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz. Set in 1948 Montreal in a Jewish ghetto, a young Dreyfuss gives an excellent performance as the title character who suffers through years of self-abuse in an effort to become a person of substance.

OH MY GOD. I just wet myself. Charles is talking with me about Richard Dreyfuss films. I've died and gone to heaven.

Hey, Kiriel and Atvar, I'm a Senior Tube Technician, heh. Anyways, your universe is certainly better than this one - you do the dirty work of crushing the Islamists, we (and the Soviets) destroy you, and get a great space program to boot... what's not to like?

Colonization was a downer, yeah, but that was more because I think Turtledove wrote himself into a corner... either the humans would kick alien butt or everything would go up in nuclear flames. The main problem I have is Yeager, and I would ramble on about that, but life is short and the Sox are winning.

#216 Taro:

I think the more basic problem is that nothing happened in Colonization. Worldwar was, "let's take World War II, throw in a massive new power with modern technology, and make them aliens so we have a culture conflict too!" There was nothing new in Colonization.

I don't see why you hate Yeager. He wasn't that exciting in Colonization, but Yeager, Jäger (I hate having two characters with the same name), and the Lizards had the most interesting stories in the first series.

Do you know why Turtledove is obsessed with Jews? It doesn't bother me, it is just that it's blatant and a little odd.

The Sox can lose to the A's or to the Yankees. Wouldn't you rather get it over with?

Yo Koffi. Check this out. In reference to #94.

Turtledove is obsessed with jews because he is one, I suppose. I mostly tune it out.

Death to the Yankees. This is the true cry of the Bosox fan. The Twins might take them out anyways, and Steinbrenner will probably fire his manager because they haven't won the World Series in three years, the big crybabies.

With luck, we would have a Boston-Chicago World Series, a certain sign of the Apocalypse...

Yeah, I loved The Goodbye Girl, too. Dreyfuss's best, I think.

It's crap. Take a look at worldnetdaily. Not the kind of authoritative source this sort of story needs. Besides, how could they get weapons across the Kuwaiti border, NOW? I would have moved them a long time ago...there is no AP byline on WND, so, fuhgeddabout it.

Taro:

He is?

"Mr. Vaughan, what we are dealing with here is a perfect engine, er... an eating machine. It's really a miracle of evolution. All this machine does is swim and eat and make little sharks and that's all"

Richard Dreyfuss in Jaws, 1975

TV (Harry)

Just got off the phone with the AP General Desk in New York. Story appears to be genuine, although they're concerned about the reliability of that Kuwaiti newspaper. It hasn't moved on the national wire yet, but they're checking. Stay tuned.

#224 . . . . I feel all tingly inside.

Oh please, please, please.

The A's just tied Boston. Drat. I've given up on Boston after all these years, but hope springs eternal...

Speaking of hope springing eternal, I'd like this story about weapons to be true. But I doubt that it is.

Taro #219, if, as you say, a Chicago-Boston World Series would be a certain sign of the apocalypse, I guess maybe I can take some comfort if Boston loses yet again.

Ahem, I wonder what would actually have to happen for you and your ilk to consider that the war in Iraq might have been a good thing. I think I know the answer: nothing.

In no particular order: I'm sick of trolls. Sick of the Red Sox losing. Sick of getting my hopes up for news reports like this one and then getting my hopes dashed.

You guys want WMDs to be found? Isn't it better that there were never any there (in significant usable quantities), than the alternative, that our pre-emptive war might have triggered their distribution to those who might actually use them against us?

#175 Catbert

LOL good point!

The WorldWar and Colonization Series were good reads. The How Few Remain / Alternate history with the CSA is interesting as well. The Triumphant Opposition books was good, and scarily I can see the death camps starting here if the south had won.

But I prefer the Honor Harrington Series myself.

These breaking news WMD stories are all the same:

- They come out as "BREAKING NEWS!!!",
- certain people get excited about them (even Instapundit, sad to say, he's usually much smarter than that)
- they are revealed to be mistakes/no real WMDs are found
- the bell is not unrung quite so loudly (the fact that the story didn't pan out isn't really advertised)

Repeat... ENDLESSLY. This is the pattern we've seen since the war was half-way through. The worst offender has probably been Fox News (in terms of hit-and-run reporting of stories that don't pan out, fleeing the scene by the time it's revealed to be a non-story).

WE HAVE NOT FOUND ANY WMDs IN IRAQ. This doesn't really bother me (I'm glad we got rid of an evil dictator, spread democracy, etc. etc.), so I don't have to grasp every "breaking news" item and pretend it is true. But COME ON, this is pathetic. THESE STORIES AREN'T TRUE. Approach them with a little SCEPTICISM. Please.

#115 Yair

if Hobgoblin and I are talking about the same Kornblatt's

Nigerian Muslims Support Harsh Punishment

OT, while browsing around for something on the AP site, it seems most Nigerians support a trip back to the 1200s!

Charles:

The Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz. Set in 1948 Montreal in a Jewish ghetto, a young Dreyfuss gives an excellent performance as the title character who suffers through years of self-abuse

Sure you aren't thinking of Portnoy's Complaint? :)

48 hour rule + 50 years.

Japanese shit from WWII is still being found in China, American shit from WWI is still being found in the DC suburbs.

How interesting that we get another 'cry wolf' story about WMD on the very day that the Kay investigation says that there's no evidence of WMD in Iraq.

So lets see - Blix says he doubts any WMD (or any subtantial remains of the old programme) will be found, because they likely poured them into the desert years ago, Kay is halfway towards telling us the same thing, and GW has to remind the American people that, no, there's no evidence that Saddam had anything to do with 9/11.

Looks like all those justifications for a unilateral invasion were spot on eh?

Anyone know where I can get The Music online?

Cry wolf? Ah yes...and if it turns out to be true, you'll be the first claiming "plant"

GAZE

sigh

with no confirmation from the alleged paper's own website and no story on the AP wire, this looks like a hoax.

someone at hindustantimes should/will be fired.

alas.

Pablo, he's still back on the page where Uni- equals 40 so there is no point in feeding this troll. Ted Kennedy doesn't even try that crap when he's in DT's.

As far as this story....I'd assume it is crap until proven otherwise. Do you honestly think we need so much as an illicit can of Raid to turn up to justify removing Saddam? Maybe the french miss their little socialist buddy and miss the oil market/weapon dump/money laundering Iraqi machine greased with the blood of innocent civilians...I suppose this troll does too. That just goes to prove we were right.

VfI,
The Orwellian language engineers of the neo-Stalin left have been hard at work for many years.
"Unilateral" is one of their favorite targets, along with "intervention". Originally, it meant an action by a single nation as opposed to that of an alliance or a treaty group.
Today it apparently means anything that is done without the approval and consent of Noam Chomsky, the Guardian editorial staff, and the UN bureaucracy.

"Intervention" of course is any action that does not acknowledge left-wing rhetoriticians as the final authority.

The entire left-wing worldview, from Vietnam onward, is a myth, a big lie adapted to the centralized media of a past era; a relic, if you will, of 1960s American television and its insufferable hubris and elitism.
This is why a billion Muslims cannot destroy tiny Israel, why leftists cannot loot American wealth and re-distribute it to dictator-pandering European investors, and why Euro-profiteer sponsored dictators like Saddam Hussein cannot survive.
The authoritarian sound-bite world of the linear media has passed its peak just as the backward elites of Europe have learned to exploit it. How sad.

It is often alleged on the far right that the commercial media are tools of the extreme left. On the evidence, the opposite is true; left-wing poltical culture as we know it today is entirely an artifact and tool of the advertising industry and the commercial media.

#239 spidly

Lets see. A US and UK military force with a fig leaf of some Poles and Aussies. Or perhaps you think that Micronesia is calling the shots with the invasion?

You'll be saddened to hear I've no regrets for Saddam's current position, but military adventures based on a cocktail of conjecture, shoddy intelligence, scatterdash jingoism, misrepresentation, and subsequent absense of stated justifications don't strike me as a good template for international relations. I'm peculiar that way.

Who's going to believe the US next time 'round?

Not entirely OT, but this article from Front Page is interesting Russia Hid Saddam's WMDs written by a former Romanian intel officer.
An excerpt:

The Soviet bloc not only sold Saddam its WMDs, but it showed them how to make them "disappear." Russia is still at it. Primakov was in Baghdad from December until a couple of days before the war, along with a team of Russian military experts led by two of Russia's topnotch "retired"generals: Vladislav Achalov, a former deputy defense minister, and Igor Maltsev, a former air defense chief of staff. They were all there receiving honorary medals from the Iraqi defense minister. They clearly were not there to give Saddam military advice for the upcoming war—Saddam's Katyusha launchers were of World War II vintage, and his T-72 tanks, BMP-1 fighting vehicles and MiG fighter planes were all obviously useless against America. "I did not fly to Baghdad to drink coffee," was what Gen. Achalov told the media afterward. They were there orchestrating Iraq's "Sarindar" plan.

Make of it what you will but I think there may be some relevance.
Rod

VFLIDE

Answer me this, oh woman of the dank and damp regions of the northeast Atlantic: If Saddam got rid off all his WMD like Blix says right after GW1, why did he give the UNSCOM inspectors such a hard time? Why did it come to the point that the inspectors were forced to leave and your hero, William Jefferson Clinton, ordered a cruise missile attack? Why did even your long lost cousin from the Dakotas, Tom D'Asshole Daschle support action against Iraq in 1998?

Suspicious behavior from your hero Saddam if he had nothing to hide.

"Lets see. A US and UK military force with a fig leaf of some Poles and Aussies. Or perhaps you think that Micronesia is calling the shots with the invasion?"

Let's see, indeed: Two Evil Empires, a couple of fig leaves, and a micro-puppet. That makes five. Even this biased pronouncement contradicts your earlier use of "unilateral".

Everyone forgets the Danes, for helvede!

I'd like to see someone call the baddass Aussies in Iraq "a figleaf" to their faces

I really give this story about a five percent chance of panning out, and that much only because it's almost weird enough to be true.

Still, it's amusing to contemplate forty years of global media activism and a dominant academic culture being overthrown by a truckload of mustard gas and a few vials of anthrax.

#243 Ed Moran in I Confettius

The proof of the pudding, as they say, is in the eating.
If your defence rests on the obstinate behaviour of Saddam (a man who ruined his country in a needless war with Iraq), and a man who we know to be an old hand at manipulative brinksmanship, then you haven't much of a case. I don't know why he didn't fess up, have the sanctions stopped, and move on with a nice quite dictatorship, and I suspect we never will unless he's captured alive and decides to do Oprah (neither which seems likely). Why did Nixon scupper his whole (safe) presidency with watergate? Leaders sometimes do dumb things that make no sense.

I didn't support Clinton's cruise missile diplomacy. It effectively ended the UN inspections which have been the only successful means of finding, accounting for, and destroying WMD in Iraq.

If we simply rack up the pre-war WMD scaremongering case by case, there's nothing there to support the claims. That's the reality of where we are.

a small portion of the justification and not a huge shitstorm until late in the war when the lefty hacks began to drone on "where are the WMD's" after the "where are the flag waiving Iraqis" question was answered.

remember the good old days when the anti-war guys complained about too many justifications for the war - "if it's a humanitarian effort, just say so"

jeez

GAZE

umm. war with Iran.

#246 spidly

I'm not talking about the merits of particular soldiers, just the unilateral US/(and UK to a far lesser degree) political and military control of the whole shebang.

Ahem fantasizes:

Yep the headlines sure are bad, Shrub Junior

Um, dude. The whole thing about GW being the 'shrub' is in reference to his father being the 'bush.' Nobody ever called GHW the 'shrub.'

God you're stupid.

view from ireland said,

I'm not talking about the merits of particular soldiers, just the unilateral US/(and UK to a far lesser degree) political and military control of the whole shebang.

If something is unilateral, it implies that one country is involved. ONE! 1111111111111! Orwell would love you!

spidly,

Look, it's a unilateral action because view from Ireland says it's a unilateral action. Glaring evidence to the contrary is just so much [a] "cocktail of conjecture, shoddy intelligence, scatterdash jingoism, [and] misrepresentation." :-)

#252 infamouse

Why not actually find out what unilateral actually means? (Hint: it's not what you think)

Oh goody, now we get to debate the meanings of words.

Fer cryin' out loud, even MONGOLIA is helping us in Iraq.

First time they've been in Iraq since 1260.

The only thing "unilateral" is VFML's solipsism.

Geepers

cocktail

There you go again, with your slurs against the Irish. :)

OT - but check out these pinheads in Austrailia who are stunned at their conviction in painting a pro-saddam slogan on the Sydney Opera House

"crikey - thats out only national landmark!"

Try this link thing again -

Sydney Morning Herald

Oh yes, I agree, the U.S. is engaged in an irresponsible "military adventure" in Iraq, motivated by nothing but jingoism and deception.

That's why we've re-opened all the major hospitals and universities in the country.

That's why we are training a new Iraqi army and police force, now over 50,000 and 40,000 men strong, respectively.

That's why we've set up a cabinet of ministers to administer the country -- and besides that -- municipal governing councils to make local decisions.

The above information was obtained directly from Donald Rumsfeld's op-ed in the WSJ: "Help Iraq To Help Itself"

That's not counting what we've done to restore electrical power, get the oil wells pumping, etc.

What a disgrace this "military adventure" has been!

P.S. But I'm sure Rumsfeld is biased.

VFLIDE

Nixon did not know of, and did not authorize the Watergate break in. Where he screwed up was to become involved in a coverup, possibly out of loyalty to those involved, or possibly to avoid the embarrasment.

To what end did it serve Saddam to endure sanctions and cruise missile attacks.?.? If he had no weapons, a brief period of full cooperation with inspections would have had Schlumberger and Elf Aquitaine in there, drilling new wells and making Saddam even richer than he was.

During last years inspections, even Blix commented that Saddam could be more helpful.

I take it you think Iraq was better off when the children of political opponents were held in prison, men were fed to shredding machines, and the regime had professional rapists to humiliate woman and girls in front of their husbands and fathers?

And you, Madam [he smiled insinuatlingly]

do not understand the difference between "initiative" and "unilateralism". But I guess socialists hate initiative, so I guess that explains it somewhat.

UNILATERALISM

Definition: [n] the doctrine that nations should conduct their foreign affairs individualistically without the advice or involvement of other nations

The story is still on Drudge, and now on Boortz.

Okay, I'm a little late to this story, and have come away with a couple of points:

First, we have to see that the story in fact pans out.

Second, since we're talking about smuggling, the destination country only tells us where potential terrorists are operating. It doesn't necessarily mean that a government is complicit in the act.

France is a possible destination, given large Islamist population. Ditto for Germany or England. Another possibility is Belgium; and as seat of NATO, this makes sense since the Belgians are making a show of cracking down.

Spain, Chechnya, and the former Yugoslavia are also potentials, but don't have as high a profile targets. Considering that the terrorists are looking for high profile, those destinations may only be waypoints on the way to a final destination elsewhere.

As far as the value of the shipment is concerned, the value suggests a very large quantity of weapons were involved. A couple of boxcars or freight boxes worth of stuff?

Lawhawk: But how do you assess the value of WMD? By the expense necessary to produce an equivalent amount? By its price on the open market? By the destruction it could cause, if used? None of these standards is related to the size of the seized shipment.

If there is any truth to the story--which should be subject to the 48 hour rule--the "European country" need not be a target. It could be a transit point. Do we open every container shipped from Italy, for example? No.

How much would a gallon of VX nerve agent be worth?

How hard would it be to conceal?

But I believe Blix: there isn't, and wasn't any since '91. Of course if that were the case, and he believes it, why was Hans lying to the UN for all those years? Just to keep his job? And to keep the UN 'food for profit' program going? nah.

u·ni·lat·er·al· ism
A tendency of nations to conduct their foreign affairs individualistically, characterized by minimal consultation and involvement with other nations, even their allies.

--War is God's way of teaching Americans geography.
-Ambrose Bierce, satirist (1842-1914)

I'm still waiting for VFI to enlighten us with the true meaning of "unilateral"?

IF the news is accurate, I wonder if there will be more coming out on it's destination. I think it was being smuggled for terrorists. We will have to keep our patience going. I have noticed that none of our unilateral trolls ever admit to or discuss the fact that WMDs are still being discovered in China, and here in the states. They have WWI stuff that's been buried here and they can't remember the exact location.
Our predecessors were very good at HIDING said WMDs. As far as Blix goes, I take everything that man says with a grain of salt.

sarcasm:
And of course we do have those who propose Peace At Any Price. It's always better to be someone's slave than to be dead.
/sarcasm

#269

--War is God's way of teaching Americans geography.
-Ambrose Bierce, satirist (1842-1914)

War is Europe's way of getting America save them and change their geography.
-FreakyBoy, funnyguy (19??-????)

err...to save them

(I misquoted myself)

FreakyBoy (#270)

I'm still waiting for VFI to enlighten us with the true meaning of "unilateral"?

Careful, Zionista will accuse you of inciting a "pile-on"!

You obviously know little about europe -

The definition of "unilateral" here is "acting without French approval"

Thus endeth the lesson

fin

#269 gazetted

The Allies unilaterally fought and defeated the Axis during World War II.

#250 VFI

just the unilateral US/(and UK to a far lesser degree) political and military control of the whole shebang.

In what recent military action has the U.S. not had the majority of troops in the theatre of action? Who should be in control of the "whole shebang"? Koffi and the U.N.?

#269 RIP Ford

In that usage wouldn't the word be used in the sense 'Of, on, relating to, involving, or affecting only one side'?

#272 FreakyBoy

"You ask if they were happy. This is not a characterisitic of a European. To be contented--that's for the cows." A. Madsen Coco Chanel (1990)

I'm not European. ;)

#274 zululizardbaby

A Zionista pile on? Where's the sign up sheet ;-)

#277 gazetted

I'm not European.

FWIW, I'm a very contented cow ;-).

VFI said:

Who's going to believe the US next time 'round?

Who cares? Fuck the UN thugs, the bulk of impotent, sneering Europe, and yourself if you'd like to join their number. We will do what needs to be done, and the crybabies can sit on the sidelines and sneer and wring their socialist hands, and rage. You can't stop us. We will exercise our power where and when we need to, and you morally bankrupt idiots in Europe should count yourselves lucky that our real goal isn't empire, as you like to claim, or you would long ago have been metaphorically strangled in your cradles. The U.S. isn't going to sit by while this Islamist cancer grows on the world. Hate us all you want, you cowards. Again, who cares?

I don't understand why unilateralism (is that a word?) carries any moral value. Now, if certain nations unilaterally lock up their "dirty" women in labor colonies, that's bad. Not because it's unilateral, but because it's idiotic and inhumane.

veebee -

Your example of the mistreatment by a country of its women is not quite on point with regard to unilateralism.

Unilateralism generally refers to a country's actions with relation to other nations, rather than what it does within its own borders.

Every sovereign country is presumed to have the right to manage its internal affairs as it pleases, unless it is committing crimes against humanity or violating international law in some way that would justify outside intervention.

Unilateralism, on the other hand, means that a country acts alone with regard to its self-declared foreign policy and its relations with other countries instead of in cooperation with other countries (multilateralism).

I am not criticizing unilateralism - just giving you my understanding of what it means. Given the self-interested and completely politicized farce otherwise known as the U.N., there was no point in the U.S.'s continuing to waste its time there.

WorldNutdaily. Wrong again...

June 6, 1945 (Normandy, France):

Today, Allied forces consisting mainly of American and British troops commanded by an American (Republican) general, unilaterally invaded the peaceful Normandy countryside. French Vichy Ministers universally condemned the unauthorized invasion as a violation of French sovereignty. They praised their "brave and generous German brothers" engaged in a valiant defense against the Anglo-American aggressive onslaught. French Premier Henri-Philippe Petain confirmed that he had not been consulted nor had he consented or in any way authorized the unilateral, aggressive brutality visited upon the peaceful French countryside by the thuggish Americans and their puppet the English.

I keep looking in the mainstream press for this, but haven't seen anything yet...any updates?

#284 Edward

it doesn't look legit. too bad, i can't say that i did not get my hopes up a little bit.

"Unilateral" is another one of those empty words, like "extreme", that LLLs use when they disagree with an argument but can't refute it.