Every Jihadi must die and all Jihadist madrassas and Mosques razed. Everyone know who the Immans and preachers of insane Muslim hatred are. Neutralize them. Take them out.

I can't bring myself to watch it. I'm already boiling over in anger to see this tragic event on top of the historical mistake Israel is making in the prisoners for corpses trade.

I just wish Israel would allow itself to take the war to its enemies, the world be damned.

I quit quoting passionate lefties a while ago, but damn it

It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!

Fight! They want to kill you! Fight! What is the matter with you?!? FIGHT!

I can't.

Yes....very graphic!! Like a scene from a sci-fi horror film. Reality in today's Israel.

As Yogi Berra would say "Deja vu all over again."

I could only watch a little of it. I'm sickened.

No more words.

And when do we get the wholesome results of a proper D9 visit to so many who richly deserve it?

Horrendous.

Can someone do something to stop this?*

*No, the world won't allow it.

# 8 Shocked

Yes, they can. But they are not currently doing it. It's not a PC action. Yet.

There's a Syrian Orthodox kid in my media ethics class who is (though he tries to conceal it) a raving anti-Semite. We got into a discussion this morning, and he kept saying that the media never shows the Palestinian's perspective, and that this is their only way of fighting back against a super-power. I had seen the headlines about the bombing before I went to class, but I hadn't read any details. If I had, or if I had seen this video before my discussion with him, I probably would have strangled him.

I watched it all. Actually, as horrible as it was, it wasn't as bad as I thought. I only wept when the camera went to the close up of someone's kippah on the ground.

BBC has an article on the bombing saying it is in response to the recent raid in which Israel killed eight Palestinians.

horror...sickening....The world with never love the Jews unless we are dead or dying. So to hell with teh EU, to hell with the state department, to hell with the UN....Israel should annex the land they need from the west bank, get the out of Gaza and say Fuck you to the PA.

Just because the world loves the sight of headless and armless woman and children, does not mean we have to stand by....

enough!...say it again. enough!....enough

David

Insanity... and I haven't even watched the video yet.

I can't understand why people continue to support these homocidal maniacs. No wait, I can. Antisemitism.

I hate the world.

Horrifying. Sickening. Unreal.

As hard as this was to watch I think that everyone should be made aware of the barbarity, murderousness, and brutality of the Palestinian "cause". All of the major news outlets should be playing this video.

# 13 RurouniKenshin

It's not the world that needs to be hated. It's the actions (and inaction) of some that are stealing oxygen from the good people in it.

It is time for a NEW ARMY, which bring down every muslim on earth to where they desire to go - it was last time I ask G-D why ....
And Israeli was so pretty when they want to help Iranians in Bam after earthquake...

But now jews are silent, not riots, every muslim alive..

Why, tell me why?

mother **()&*&^%@%#@!!!!!

The question is whether or not the jawas will try to blame the Mossad for the attack?

An interesting report today on Arab News (via [Link: www.mypetjawa.blogspot.com...] ) about an obscure conference on the "Liberty Incident". As long as their are "researchers" like James Bamford out there trying to convince the American public that its really the ZoGs that are to blame we will fight the good fight.

Thank you for posting this greusome video. It should be compulsory for all people to watch this before they are permitted to open their mouth and comment on the Israeli situation.

As awful as it is, and IT IS...........I believe it NEEDS to be seen, for far to many are removed from this horror.

While they cry for so many Pal....oops, Jordanian combatants..........they dont weep for the truly innocent!

#10 Young, Angry, Sickened Cynic

There's a Syrian Orthodox kid in my media ethics class who is (though he tries to conceal it) a raving anti-Semite.

Syrian Orthodox? is that Assyrian?
It is Christian correct? Please explain.

Mike

Made it through the video w/out losing my breakfast all over the screen. However a couple of my co-workers who heard the audio came over and had to leave.

Seems to me if more people actually saw these videos and ones of 9/11 w/ bodies falling and the sounds of their hitting like blocks of cement as well as the ARABS living on the West Bank celebrating all of these murders maybe they would have a different opinion.

Of course as I live near both Berkeley and San Francisco this is all wishfull thinking.

Time for another Venti Sarcasm Latte.

#14 scooter

As hard as this was to watch I think that everyone should be made aware of the barbarity, murderousness, and brutality of the Palestinian "cause". All of the major news outlets should be playing this video.

I disagree on several points. A fairly large number of people are going to really enjoy that kind of video. It would give them sublime pleasure to watch this kind of stuff. No, they are not moral people. But that's quite clear to those here (with a few exceptions).
And, it appears that entities whose opinions and actions actually matter in this are fully aware of what is happening and want it that way. That is the focus of the problem.

Tech help please:

I get the audio, but no video comes through.
Any idea about what I need to adjust in order to actually see the video? The audio is pretty horrific on its own, but in the confines of my safe cubicle, I'd like to expose myself to more of the actual horror.

All I can say is after the heartbreak that comes from watching this video, the cold anger sets in.

I am making this video required viewing for all the Dingus Nitwits I run into who think Isreal is at fault for their troubles. Even if I have to clamp their eyelids open, Clockwork Orange style.

Right now, all I can and will do is offer a prayer for the hurting.

Charles, thank you, I am a long time reader of LGF and never have I read such a passionate pursuit of the truth as I have found on this blog.

It's Aspiration, Not Desperation

"I always wanted to be the first woman who sacrifices her life for Allah. My joy will be complete when my body parts fly in all directions."

gawd almighty, just completely clean out the territories! no pals, no problem - fu*k'em!

Thank you Charles.

The world needs to see this sort of thing on their television screens EVERY time there is an outrage like this.

It cretainaly woke me up.

There are too many people who hear/see normal bland coverage of this sort of thing on TV and think "yeah yeah, seen it all before, what is the next story" or in the case of LLL's " ah but what about the root causes".

Broadcasting the non sanitised version would maybe shock people into realising that a suicide bomb actually results in awful carnage and destruction, not just a long shot of the bus from 500 yards, some lucky bystanders with a bit of blood on their faces, and the statutory wailing "palestinian" mother.

They might also start to question the silent genocide that is being waged in the name of the religion of peace *spit*, and why there has been so many years of misreporting, complacency, tacit support, and overt support.

Fucking savages.

# 26 abu-Hoo-Hoo

You want to be careful with that last one. You might make more of them.

CNN is showing live the German plane landing at Beirut. If Sharon had anything guts in his huge gut, he would bomb Beirut airport into oblivion now.

But he wont. He is too busy eating supper.

FROM HAARETZ:

It was like a pastoral scene - the sun was shining and it was serene outside - but the bus was a nightmare. Bodies were sitting in their chairs, burnt, motionless," said witness Drora Resnick.

"There were burnt children sitting together. People started rushing off the bus, but they were still there, not moving."

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

What kind of a country allows this to be done to its citizens? Imagine the U.S. taking this sh*t.

#22 ORD neighbor

You say:

" it appears that entities whose opinions and actions actually matter in this are fully aware of what is happening and want it that way. That is the focus of the problem. "

I could not agree more.
That is the real problem.
I think that WE THE PEOPLE, both in Israel and in America, should compel the politicians to cut the crap and fight this world war for what it is.
I think that someone has in his rotten mind that we have not to fight because we must not "offend" the muslims all over the world.
Some idiot still thinks to ENLIGHTEN the minds of the nazis of today...and must be an important idiot.

[bigoted word]s. You can dress 'em up, shave their backs, and soak 'em in Drakkar, but you can't give them a soul.

BBC's bizarre description of Israel

Israel: Finish the wall. Now.

I have never seen such a graphic video...it's mind-boggling what high explosives do to the human body. As to the comments stating muslims and their left-wing supporters should be forced to watch this video, I really feel this would be an exercise in futility. These people are so demented with their hate that they have put their murderous ideology first and lost all their humanity.
I really think we must stoop to their level of inhumanity and savagery in order to get through to them. I have always felt that given the massive support for this type of terrorism within the Palestinian community specifically, and within the Muslim community generally, that Israel should reciprocate such acts with barbarism at least equal in its severity. When innocent Israeli citizens are murdered in these suicide attacks, the Israeli army should lob a missile into a crowded Palistinian neighbourhoodm or go after the suicide bomber/shooter surviving family and annihilate them...see how the palis like having their innocents (?) slaughtered. Fuck what the world community says in response. Israel can't do any right by them anyway.
It is an extreme response to be sure, but I truly believe that it is the only effective response to dealing with such a primitive, murderous mindset.

The sad thing about this video is that, yes, we see the video here on this site. We already know what goes on over there. What needs to happen is to have it on the news, over and over so everyone sees it. Email the link to people you know, granted, they will probably not watch it because its too graphic and they will just revert back to their same moral equivalency bullsh*t. Israel, give the world the middle finger salute and kill these bastards.

Apologies for the OT in such a tragic thread, but this item from an Iraqi blogger should be on the front page, an excerpt:

IRAQ THE MODEL
January 28, 2004

Ambition that blinds

"You can say that it's great that Saddam is gone and I'm sure that a lot of Iraqis feel it is great that Saddam is gone. But a lot of them gave their lives. And their living standard is a whole lot worse now than it was before."

What did Mr. Dean meant by this statement?

Don't you agree that by saying those words you accuse the American soldiers of one of two charges each of which is worse than the other; You are saying that, either they are stupid enough to sacrifice their lives for the sake of GWB political future, or they are evil people who love fighting and killing and they are doing this only for money, in other words they’re no more than mercenaries. Saying that you only disagree with the way this issue is handled will also not change the fact that you are only harming your men and women on the battlefield.

By statements like these you deny any honourable motives for the great job your people are doing here.

[Link: iraqthemodel.blogspot.com...]

I'm afraid that the horror depicted in this video will become standard fare in many, many cities of the civilized world over the next few decades. Israel is merely in the vanguard of the coming nihilism. No one can predict the future, but I can feel that "A hard rain's
a gonna fall".

# 31 Poitiers-Lepanto

I think that WE THE PEOPLE, both in Israel and in America, should compel the politicians to cut the crap and fight this world war for what it is.

What should happen and what does happen tend to not be the same unfortunately.

I think that someone has in his rotten mind that we have not to fight because we must not "offend" the muslims all over the world.

It's not one person. Big things like this take groups with power. Just like Stalin could do what he did because of lots of little Stalins in his society. And radically changing societies takes a lot of effort from the outside. We seem to not be at that point now. Unfortunately.

I don't know how the people of Israel are so passive that they haven't demanded that their elected officials wage total war on the "Palestinians." This video shows the results of being more concerned with world opinion than with protecting Israeli children and parents. Never again, my ass. It is happening again. Why are Israelis not in the streets by the million demanding that total war be fought to make sure that this never happens again. And on the day that they release hundreds of prisoners. I don't get it. Does Israel have a latent death wish almost as powerful as the overt Pali one? I'm sorry if this sounds callous or disrespectful to my Israelis friends, but how is it that the Israeli public is not taking their leaders to task? The means to prevent most of these attacks is there, why not the will? I don't understand. Wasn't the whole idea behind Zionism and the establishment of the state of Israel to not be at the mercy of other nations and peoples, to be in control of their own security and well-being. If that was the whole point, why is this being allowed to happen. Do the Israelis really care more about what Russian, French, Malaysian, Colombian, American, Syrian, English, Sudanese, and Latvians think than they do that Shmuel is blown apart, Alex is shredded into hundred of pieces, Elad is blinded and paralyzed, Anna is burned over more of her body than not, puncture holes from shrapnel cover Idan's body, the last breath is drawn by David's lungs and Vitslav is shot in the face. Where's the fucking outrage? Why are there no protests of millions in the streets?

Wow, the brave Jihadi, sneaking onto a bus full of women and children and old folks and other innocents on the way to work and play. All to avenge the deaths of eight "Palestinians" yesterday at the hands of the IDF. Of course, all eight of the Pals were probably armed and masked and fighting the IDF at the time they were terminated, but we'll never hear that in the mainstream press. Why not put a uniform on and carry a gun in broad daylight, O Brave Jihadi, and not when surrounded by little kids and women and masses of your Pals? Because Islam is chickenshit, that's why. What a pathetic world that allows this kind of thing to happen. Finish the wall, kill all the terrorist leaders starting with Arafish, kill anyone with a mask and a gun. DO IT NOW! Fuck world opinion. The raving Islamonazis will never understand anything but death. It is what they crave, they should be given as much as they can stomach.

Actions like this are not criminal acts. They are acts of war. It is time for Israel and the US to understand that it needs to be persecuted as a war.

There is no reason why anyone in the uniform / under the flag of the PA, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Fatah, etc should be permitted to exist. These organizations have declared war - and are fighting a cowardly war. Only when they have been hunted down, and taught the meaning of defeat will peace finally come.

All of the talk and concern about making more terrorists with aggressive counteraction is that - talk. There is no shortage of recruits given the poison that the PA and other organizations (and governments) in the area drill into the minds of the people.

I am so disappointed in the fact that Israel is not aggressively responding against these groups - and against Arafat. The whole concept of releasing 400 prisoners for 1 hostage and 3 bodies of soldiers is annoying. I would return the prisoners in the same ratio - 100 live, and 300 dead.

These people only understand strength - not weakness. Negotiation is weakness at this point.

:-(

*sarcasmon*sure...that kind of perople should definitely be let out of prison....*sarcasmoff*

how many "condemnations" mentioning the Pal state(and the "legitimate right" to one) have come in already, I wonder.....

Slightly OT: An update on Cleveland Imam Fawaz Damra. Seems the moderates(?) may be voicing their opinion.

Muslims take each other to court

Abdel Aziz Rantissi, a Hamas leader in Gaza, praised the bombing. "It's not important who carried out this operation. The only thing which is very important is that we are resisting occupiers who came . . . to occupy our land and to kill our people," he said.

from a National Post article.

So why is thids animal still alive?

#28 ORD neighbor

your absolutely right. un-Fu*k'em!

To me, the most chilling aspect of the video is the demeanor of the Israeli clean-up workers. They move like zombies through the carnage, obviously shutting out the meaning of what they're experiencing. This demeanor takes a great deal of practice.

In hopes that it will gain momentum, here is the most moral solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict: The the Benny Elon Plan.

Please note that this plan is NOT TRANSFER of the entire Arab population within Israel, but rather the terrorist elements within this population.

Please visit my website which has links to much more information about this plan.

THE ELON PEACE INITIATIVE
A Seven Part Comprehensive Plan
Toward Peace in the Middle East

1. Government Leadership: declare the Palestinian Authority an Enemy of the Jewish State.

2. Military Action: Destroy the Terror Infrastructure by removing every terrorist, weapon and bomb factory from Judea, Samaria & Gaza.

3. Nullify, in its entirety, the Oslo Accords and dismantle the Palestinian Authority.

4. Following the cessation of hostilities, negotiations will commence under international auspices to solve the refugee problem through the relocation of displaced Arabs to Arab countries and the dismantling of refugee camps.

5. Acceptance of two countries for two people on two sides of the Jordan. The Jordanian/Palestinian state with Amman as its capital, and the Jewish state with Jerusalem as its capital.

6. Arabs remaining in Judea, Samaria & Gaza will become citizens of the Jordanian/Palestinian state. Arab Palestinians holding Israeli Citizenship will be offered alternate citizenship in the Jordanian/Palestinian state.

7. If the Arabs of Judea, Samaria & Gaza breach the terms of this plan, they will be expelled to their state on the other side of the Jordan River.

Copyright © American Friends of Moledet, All rights reserved.

38- my thoughts exactly.
I'm reminded of some early 90's black humor: the Russian optimist is teaching his children English. The Russian pessimist is teaching his kids Chinese. The Russian realist is teaching his kids to use a Kalishnikov.
What is the Israeli realist doing today (besides checking his ammo and worrying about his kids safety?) What choice, what hope is there besides making Bigel PM (suggestion from the earlier thread)and killing them all?

I watched it --sickened inside. This is the horror that the rest of the world SHOULD see.

One has to wonder why the press consistently provides photos of the dead "shaheeds" being paraded through the streets and their deaths being celebrated while avoiding showing the graphic and despicable inhumanity of the acts committed by the "shaheeds."

Could it be that they know the horror of it would be too much for most people to comprehend that anyone could be that evil to do such a thing? That any normal person would recoil in horror and be sickened by such depravity?

#48 Let Israel Win:

Well, that's certainly morally superior to the "KILL THEM ALL AND LET ALLAH SORT THEM OUT" theory of settling the Arab-Israeli War that gains more adherents every time a mass murder like this happens . . .

A small gesture, but hopefully this will make some feel a slight bit better, at least for the moment:

'Prayer for Israel'

* besides, I think that song is pretty powerful.

Filthy Liberals and muslims find nothing offensive!

Just a bit more on Fawaz. Here is the long version. I've yet to see the CAIR van patrolling in Cleveland.

Muslim vs. Muslim

I watched the video. Not much more to say on the matter.

#39 ORD Neighbor

"...It's not one person. Big things like this take groups with power. "

I agree.
I took the sentence by GWB about islam as 'a religion of peace' as the tip if the iceberg. There was in that sentence the sound of a decision taken, the decision to try (for the millionth time in the last 1400 years) to enlighten the ruling class in the muslim world.

Will the same circles gather to re-examine the situation ( after the next tragic attacks that will fall for sure on all of us) and will they finally open their eyes or their ideologies will be stronger than reality and will doom us all ?
As someone said...that is the question...

#40 Doss

Well said.

How long until Jewish 'NGOs' start hitting back?

48, 51- I dont agree with the "Kill them all theory" on both moral and practical grounds. But transfer is not a perfect solution either - again on both moral and, more coldly, PR grounds. (Yes, at some point you have to be concerned with what the rest of the world thinks.) Transfer looks like ethnic cleansing, a very un-PC idea!
But practically, transfer does not move the terrorists far enough. The Jordan is still too close. The Nile is too close. The Indus is probably too close.
So what do you do instead?

Doss, #40, I'm right where you are.

It has been long overdue that Israel tells the world to F*** off -- including the United States -- and provide security for the people of Israel.  By any means necessary.

Does anyone think the USA would tolerate Mexicans blowing up pizza parlors in Texas?  Mexico would be a parking lot.

The days of double standards towards Israel must come to an end.

If total war is what is required, total war is what Arafat should receive.
 

#40 Doss

I hope you don't mind, I quoted your post at IsraelForum.

Reposted from LGF at IsraelForum

I have to wonder if we had that happening here, and we knew that the people who did it were coming through the Vermont/Canada border for instance, would we not consider a fence of some sort? How can anyone in their right mind justify this type of slaughter? The Palestinians are savages and deserve to be treated as such. They don't deserve a state, financial support, pity, etc. They only deserve to be caged in like animals at a zoo. God bless Israel for recognizing this with their fence.

We dont' have the political will in this country to stop this nonsense. I'm afraid one day it will hit our shores. Then what will the Democrats say? Will they blame it on Bush? Of course! God help us all.

From Haaretz newswire:

"U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell: Palestinian leadership has to realize that it is time to end the terror"

Paraphrase:

"That's right. Until now it was sort of OK, but enough fooling around. I mean it this time. I really do."

Shitheaded State department.

#59 Jim in Virginia

WHY does Israel have to care about world opinion? It hasn't done them any good to date. Under no circumstances will Israel ever be looked upon favorably by the majority of the world's countries, no matter *what* they do.

Therefore, I think they should slaughter, or transfer, or whatever it takes to make their citizens safe. They can't win with people's opinions, but they *can* do a lot more to make their citizens safer, and they'll be okay as long as the US is in their corner.

Islam produces poverty, despair, murderous savages.

Why allow the recreation of the same pathological society in western socities?

Seeing this carnage made me cry. The school notes on the pavement, the sheath of papers with a small black notebook left undisturbed on the bus seat, while their owners were in pieces.

I can understand why people get mad at Israel for not doing more to avert this, but the fact is that living under hostile conditions for centuries (in Europe as well as the Middle East) the Jewish people have always done their best to not offend and not hurt anyone. Yet, the story continues, the same as always. This mass murder of innocents was linked by all European media to the killing of the 8 Palestinians by the IDF, basically blaming Israel once again for a jihadi murderer's actions. Israel will never find justice outside her borders.

OT -- got another one?

Yemen Arrests Key Suspect in U.S. Qaeda 'Sleeper Cell'

#59 Jim in Virginia

(Yes, at some point you have to be concerned with what the rest of the world thinks.) Transfer looks like ethnic cleansing, a very un-PC idea!

Fuck PC, and fuck world opinion.

OT: The collaborators at Haaretz are criticising Israel for returning fire in Gaza when fired on with RPGs.

Link

The IDF fired, according to reports, at armed men who opened fire at it, including using an anti-tank rocket. These were not armed men whose identity was known in advance and whose plot to carry out an act of terror could not be foiled any other way. And to them must be added an unknown number of casualties who were hurt because they happened upon the scene.

The IDF is fired upon, and they shoot back. But the 'armed men' were probably not terrorists, so they shouldn't shoot back in case they hit their human shields.

Are these people as stupid as I think they are?

The Guardian has this The Nobel Peace laureate and Ulster Unionist leader David Trimble called human rights organisations a "great curse" yesterday and accused them of complicity in terrorist killings.

The Madrid conference ended with a declaration which went some way to supporting Mr Trimble.

It said: "We call on NGOs and other civil organisations that stand for the defence of human rights to make a commitment to defend victims of terrorism and to identify terrorist acts for what they are, regardless of their cause or pretext and without striking balances or blurring the distinction between victims and executioners."

Seems that the loony left has no morals when comes to life.

never again? right before our very eyes...

Colt (#69)

Are these people as stupid as I think they are?

No, just evil.

#61 ibrodsky
I don't mind at all. I'm glad that I'm not alone in how I feel. As a kid the Holocaust became a defining event in how I thought about the world and the people who inhabit it and the ways to maximize those peoples' dignity and joy and minimize their suffering and debasement. I used to think that the cautionary tale of the Holocaust was so horrible that the world had been shocked into a vastly more civil behavior.
I couldn't have been more wrong.

"U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell: Palestinian leadership has to realize that it is time to end the terror"

I have Cakewalk and Fruity-Loops-----I can recognise a "loop" when I hear one.

Meanwhile.......We have decided not to place a closure on the territories----and our news is similar to that found on the CBC (online)---a mention of the inconvienient massacre of our people, and all eyes on the release of a few bones by the "Party of God".

This is the begining of the "Terror Super-Bowl", the PLO and Hamas must show the Arab World that they are just as murderous as the Hisballah----------and deserving of additional funding from the "International Community" for their efforts.

#59 Jim in Virginia: You take out the leaders of the territories the terrorists are operating from. Soon enough, you'll have leaders interested in peace (so they may live) that will do most of the work of fighting the jihadis for you. It really is that easy. Apparently Israel wants to try the other approach, which has been failing for so very long, for at least a few more decades. Or at least to give her enemies enough time to bring some really nasty weapons in to use against her.

#73 zulubaby

No, just evil.

Maybe you're right. It's quite something when a major Israeli paper effectively calls for the deaths of Israeli soldiers.

#52 RWC

Thank you for posting that gesture.

#11 Judith

The BBC would say that. These bombings take planning and need time to plan the route and place apart from making the explosives belt or whatever.

Like someone said: " see the fence does not help!"
Of course not in this case as the bomber came from Bethlehem where the fence has not been built. By the way he was one of Arafat's policemen who Tenet and the CIA trained during the Hudna on the way to the infamous "roadmap".

UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan and senior European Union officials appealed to Israelis and Palestinians on Thursday to get back to the negotiating table in the wake of the latest suicide bombing.

Cowen said the bus attack should not deter attempts to implement the so-called road map for peace that is being pushed by the UN, the EU, Russia and the United States.

He [Annan] said more had to be done by Israeli and Palestinian political leaders to implement the road map.

I could scream.

BBC DIRECTOR GENERAL RESIGNS.

Greg Dyke quits & BBC apologises to Tony Blair

#20 Mike

There are Orthodox Christian Arabs in Syria, like in Lebanon and Palestine. They are a minority but as virulently anti-Israel as their Muslim brethren.

Colt (#77)

It's quite something when a major Israeli paper effectively calls for the deaths of Israeli soldiers.

Evil.

#80 more like...

Cowen said the bus attack should not deter attempts to implement the so-called "final solution" for peace that is being pushed by the UN, the EU, Russia and the United States.

#60 William

Does anyone think the USA would tolerate Mexicans blowing up pizza parlors in Texas? Mexico would be a parking lot.

How right you are. Powell was just on tv and said something to the effect of, "Both sides need to...." I'm about to go eat lunch, secure in the knowledge that no one will come in with a bodybomb- how can anyone demand that the Israelis not have that same security?

#20: I don't know exactly what Syrian Orthodox is (or Assyirian, or whatever). He just said that's what he was, and didn't elaborate. I'm going to do some research on it later, to see if there's a connection between that and his anti-Semitism, or if he's just a nasty bigot.

My first thought was that I should save this video to a disk along with the WinMedia installer, so I can play it for a couple of people whom I know who refuse to say anything bad about the terrorists or anything good about their victims. But on further thought, it won't do any good. They'll look at the bloody hands lying on the pavement, and I know what they'll say, because they've said it before. They'll say, "See! See the desperation the Israelis are pushing innocent people into! See how evil Israel is, to so maim a poor Arab's heart to do this?" This is what they say. I used to think I could get these people's attention (not change their minds, but at least get their attention) by telling them about the suicide bombing in the ice cream parlor, and how the burial volunteers had to disassemble the baby strollers in order to remove the chunks of dead baby that were wedged into their frames. It didn't work. These people didn't even blink. They're impervious. I cannot understand it. Why, you ask, would I hang around with such people? Answer: one of them is a relative. Another one is the mother of my best friend. That one, I'm about to 86 out of my life, even though it's going to hurt my friend -- but I'm just going to tell her, I won't sit around a table and make chit chat with somebody who sits there and tells me that these Israelis have only themselves to blame when their children are roasted alive. Can't do it. Anyway, my point is, these people SEEM perfectly civilized when talking about anything other than the war against the terrorists. I guess they're like the people who made excuses for the Germans in the 1930s. I don't know what to say to them. I'm stumped. And I'm sick.

#22 ORD neighbor

I agree that there are twisted people who will revel in the carnage of this event. You have a point. However, I think that raising awareness of the sickening tactics that the Palestinians employ outweighs your well reasoned concerns about airing the video to a larger audience.

There are Palestinian apologists in this country who constantly ignore the murderous reality of Palestinian brutality. A suicide bombing is an abstract event for many. CNN shows a bombed out bus from a distance. It’s messy but not unlike something we’ve all seen fictionalized on TV. More people need to be shocked from their complacency. There are moral people who have no experience of such violence who can't comprehend the severity of Palestinian atrocities inflicted on non-combatants, women and children trying to peaceably live their lives.

It is crucial for people that can’t (or won’t) comprehend this type of violence to be forced to confront it. Where is the widespread outrage? When confronted with the horrific reality of suicide bombings it becomes impossible to support the Palestinians. Liberal Palestinian supporters should be ashamed of their positions on Israel. More people need to see this video. More people need to confront it. People who talk about the Israelis subjecting the Palestinian’s to a Zionist apartheid. People who perceive that the PLO and the Israel are equal entities.

As sickening and as difficult to watch as the video is, the perception that the Palestinians are a subjected persecuted people must be shattered. They are a violent death-cult obsessed people intent on killing Jews and they need to be perceived as such. This 5 minute video makes this point and I think needs be seen.

Speaking of murder and war – and those who side with the killers…
a great OP-ED by Mike Rosen

[Link: www.rockymountainnews.com...]

Does anyone have a downloadable copy of this video? I'd like to archive it on my server and point to it when people I know blame Israel for everything. Just email me if you know where I can get it.

Thanks.

#87 Mark

I'm in the process of a similar thing. It's tough.

Looking at the video, it's amazing at how professional everyone is. Poor souls, how they've gotten used to this carnage.

I hope the experience contrinutes to a strength that helps them in other aspects of their personal lives, and in the ongoing nationbuilding of Israel.

#47 Dean Douthat

To me, the most chilling aspect of the video is the demeanor of the Israeli clean-up workers

That made a big impression on me as well. I don't know how they could still function in that carnage, but I admire the grim determination that allows them to carry on.

Colt/zulubaby

Putting up with Ha'aretz is one thing.

Putting up with Molly Moore of the Washington Post is an entirely different experience altogether.

From the beginning of her piece on the Gaza Raid:

GAZA CITY, Jan. 28 -- Suleyman Ahmed Dalloul heard the gunfire outside the sprawling home he shares with an extended family of 19. When two of his sons bolted for the door, Dalloul recalled later, he ordered them: "Don't go out! Stay in!"

One son obeyed. But Dalloul, whose nearly unlined face belies his 62 years, recounted that "Musa said, 'I have to go and help.' "

Musa Dalloul, 34, the father of four children, was one of eight Palestinians killed Wednesday morning in brief but ferocious combat between guerrillas armed with Kalashnikov rifles and rocket-propelled grenade launchers and Israeli troops in tanks and armored bulldozers on the southern fringe of Gaza City.

A noble, helpful, Palestinian father of four gunned down by Israeli tanks and armored bulldozers.

This is what I read this morning before I heard about the suicide bombing. Now it's even more disgusting.

64, 68
I agree that Israel is held to far stricter standards of behavior than the usual third world dictator, or even most Western countries. If Israel proceeds with transfer- or with the military actions that might stop the kind of carnage as on Bus 19 today- at some point the West (Frawnce, UK, Russia) and the Arab world will do more than complain and decry and abhor. Then Bigel gets his Samson option.

More seriously: Israel (and the US) make great effort to minimize innocent casualties. We don’t rejoice at the deaths of innocents who are caught in the way. We restrain our joy at the deaths of our enemies. It’s who we are, and part of the reason we are so successful. We’re not a death cult.
What happens to us when we- the US, the Israelis, the Brits- are pushed to the point where we stop worrying about innocent bystanders?

Sorry, it’s hard to be an optimist right now.

Please, anyone , explain to me Why Why Why has Sharon agreed to give 470+ terrorists back to the filth of Ramallah?

Has he burst a blood vessel and lost his cognitive powers?

Was it as USA deal?

And now I read that thousands more mey be releaes for Airman Ron

I'm very dissapointed

Why are the rescue workers so calm? Because they've seen this before; many times. I'm so angry right now I can't express it. I want a plane ticket and an assault rifle. I also want a copy of this video to shove in the face of all these Palestinian apologists. This is pure evil.

You all have said it all. I too was sickened by the video, but this has been going on for a long time now. Israel's response has been like putting a bandaid on a deep, 10 cm wound.

It's time for the Israelis to take off the gloves and kick some Pali ass big time!

Fight back. World opinions be damned. They don't understand anything else.

#90 cameo

There is software that can download streaming .asf files... I've used asf recorder without problems.

I started watching, but couldn’t finish it. Absolutely horrifying.

Do remember how the Left whined about how horrifying it was to show a video of Saddam being examined by army personnel? Do you think they might react with the same horror to this video? Or dismiss it as insignificant?

#82 zorkmidden: thanks. I didn't see that before I posted a second time.

# 87 Mark,

with some, it helps. I have see some people change their attitude after the situation was talked through.

using the example of in this case turks, italians or greeks blowing themselves up in streetcars and buses and what they would like to see to happen if THAT occurred here.....

its just so easy to sit in a safe place and judge a situation one knows nothing about.....

BUT it takes a lot of patience and often enough is pretty distasteful(especially with those wo DONT get it...).

and I obviously sit in the heart of a society with a definite lack of understanding.....

# 42 athos:

These organizations have declared war - and are fighting a cowardly war. Only when [the PA, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Fatah, etc] have been hunted down, and taught the meaning of defeat will peace finally come.

I have to agree wholeheartedly. It is time for some serious humiliation in the Muslim/Palestinean cesspool of a world.

WTF is this?

This photo released by the Palestinian Press Office (PPO) shows the Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams (R) receiving a medal from Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat during their meeting in the West Bank city of Ramallah

A medal for what? And why would the Archbishop of Canterbury want a medal from a mass-murderer?

Not really a criticism of Eastern Orthodox religion, and, as a Catholic I know at the very least the RC church probably could have done more to oppose the Holocaust, and I know in places like Croatia in WW2 people who happened to be Catholic allied themselves with the Nazis. And if we want to dredge ancient history, the Western Church bears some responsibility for the killing of Jews, and the desecration of Eastern Christian shrines during the Crusades, and the torture of Jews and Muslims during the Inquisition.

I was watching a documentary the other night on the History Channel about Arkan and his Serbian "Tiger" paramilitaries. Arkan and his men killed literally tens of thousands of Croatian Catholics, and Bosnian and Kosovar Muslims, yet much of the video of Arkan showed an Orthodox priest who was frequently in his entourage.

I know there are probably still antisemitic elements in the Roman church, but the official policy of the Pope has been to apologize for the Church's role in injustices done in the past, and the Pope regularly meets with Jewish leaders. (Of course, he also met with Tariq Aziz, although I sincerely hope that was in a diplomatic sense) I'm not sure if the Eastern ("Orthodox") has any official policy concerning fighting antisemitism.

They might, and I'm willing to be educated.

I made it half ay through- up to the part where you see the dismembered leg in the bus- then I felt my breakfast on the way up and pain in my head.

Maybe this week we get this video on the evening news to supplement commentary about Israeli "oppression" or "unjustified" aggression?

IT JUST NEVER ENDS!! We go after terrorists, they kill civilians. And the whole world sees it as acceptable, while questioning Israeli policy.

Maybe Israel should start a "roof" once they finish the wall...

Sorry for not making too much sense- I will not be thinking straight for the rest of the day after seeing the video...

that's it. bomb them. I cant take this anymore...so f***in' senseless!!!

Andrew B.

#105 zulubaby

Rowan Williams might as well be a fricking imam. After the Turkey bombings, he said al-Qa'eda had genuine grievances.

#90 cameo

The video can be downloaded here, and is 57 MB.

#88 scooter

There are Palestinian apologists in this country who constantly ignore the murderous reality of Palestinian brutality.

I disagree. They do not ignore it. They enjoy it. And when it looks them straight in the face, they blame the victim.

It is crucial for people that can’t (or won’t) comprehend this type of violence to be forced to confront it.

And the likely response is "see what evil zionists made the poor fuzzy nice followers of moe do?" and "The evil zionists need to be punished and then to satisfy the poor unhappy suffering ones.. ".

Liberal Palestinian supporters should be ashamed of their positions on Israel. More people need to see this video. More people need to confront it. People who talk about the Israelis subjecting the Palestinian’s to a Zionist apartheid. People who perceive that the PLO and the Israel are equal entities.

They are not ashamed. Why should they? They are blaming the victim at best and helping terrorists anyway. To most people, Israel and a bunch of terrorists are not equal. The problem is not in equality. It's in the fact that so many find terrorists superior here.

Hmm. Ignore that.

It's available on the Israeli Foreign Ministry website.

Sure, sure, Colin Powell and Kofi Annan and their ilk will go through their pre-programmed routines.

A few weeks ago, Mark Steyn already gave the answer with his prescience:
"Any response to the latest Palestinian atrocity that
involves 'ending the cycle of violence' and 'getting
the peace process back on track' is worthy of
derision."

#108 Andrew B. unfortunatley I agree

You know what- they have so much time to plan these attacks because they are not out looking for body parts all the time. PA, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Fatah, etc just keep blowing people up- and Israelis are left to spend days looking for the parts!
Every once in a while we go in a rocket a car or house and kill terrorists (and unfortunately rarely and unintentionally some civilians) but by and large its all traditional methods on our part- conventional warfare. We put a bullet in them but they are still in once piece so that they can be carried by a large crowd the next day and paraded around, shown on CNN, and all the other bullshit. It would be harded to propagandize their "freedom fighters" if they were in dozens of pieces like the Israeli citizens end up...

I'm not advocating we start blowing stuff up at random- but maybe we communicate in terms they understand- small scale NUKE or something so they get the message hey- we can blow up stuff too...

It's nice to know that in the midst of the War on Terror, and as U.S. soldiers and innocent citizens of our allies in the Middle East are being blown up, that the State Department still has plenty of time on it's hands:

The US State Department has issued an edict banning its longtime standard typeface, Courier 12, from all official correspondence and replacing it with a 'more modern' font.(AFP/Illustration)

Powell issues a fatwa against Courier 12. I knew something was holding us back in relations with our European allies. Glad State finally figured out what the problem was.

I refuse to engage in any arguments about my political beliefs but I feel I need to address this issue and some of the comments that have been made in reference to it.

For the record , let me state unequivocally that this attack (and those like it) represents the lowest depth of human depravity and immorality. A callous attack against innocent civilians is nothing short of an absolute attrocity and is in keeping with the darkest examples of human savagery that have ever been committed.

I would be the first to admit that there are a lot of amoral jackasses on the Left but please do not judge every member of my so-called political ilk by the many examples of idiocy spouted by what amounts to a tiny minority of shrill, self-aggrandizing morons.

You would never know it from the media, but many of us on the Left support Israel in its struggle to carve out an island of rationality and democracy in a sea of hatred and backwardness. I blame the sensationalist appetites of our media for giving a voice to only the nuttiest contingent of the Left. You never see an interview with a rational feminist for the same reason. It does not mean they do not exist.

I personally believe that Israel has not only the right to defend itself but a moral obligation to do so. There are enough lessons in recent history for us to have learned by now that treating maniacs with kid-gloves only empowers and encourages them.

My thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends of the victims of this latest attack. May they have the strength of spirit and moral fortitude to continue to fight for what little they seek. Is live and let live so much to ask?

Barry, good article you linked to. Telling.

40 Doss

I'm Joe Israeli. I take the number 19 bus sometimes to the Hebrew University. Another day, another time I could have been in the place of one of the dead or mutilated. Now I can see the sirens from my balcony. No, I don't have a death wish and yes, I am furious and outraged. But what the hell can I do? 3 and a half years ago I was for Meretz and Peace Now, now I'm for Sharon. Thanks to me and hundreds of thousands like me the right has a majority in the Knesset. And so what? The simple fact remains that we cannot answer the fuckers measure for measure. Not because we're too good for that. We're not. And not because we don't want to. We do. But because we live in a democracy. If a commander orders his tanks to level a building where terrorists are hiding and kills a few dozen civilians, he will be burned at the stake by the cynical, backstabbing politicians of the left with the silent acquiescence of the spineless politicians of the right. If the defense minister decides to fight this war like the Americans in Iraq or the Russians in Chechnya, he will end up in jail and the Prime Minister will be out on the street before the smoke clears. Add to this the fact that America wants us to be a puppet, the EU wants us to be a pariah, and the Arabs want us dead. Israelis are not suicidal and we haven't lost our will to live. Don't listen to our politicians and extremists, we're actually very normal. We care for our children just the same as any other people. But we're caught between a rock and a hard place. Let's be frank. What we need to do to win this war is against international and Israeli law, and borders on genocide. There is no other way to win a war against a population of Islamikazees. Traitors in other words. If the men, women and children are blowing themselves up to kill you, that means that you have to fight and kill the men, women and children. And believe me, everyone here understands this. There are very few pro-Oslo idealists left. The Israelis who walk with Peace Now are people who are willing to sacrifice their countrymen (literally) for their idea of what a fair solution should be like. Our democracy isn't capable of winning against the Arab culture of suicide and racist hate. I better stop now because I'm very tired and pissed off, but here's just one final thought for you to consider. Try to look at the situation this way: start from the premise that Israel does want to destroy the terrorists, that she does has the will and the strength. Then work backwards and ask yourself why she cannot achieve that objective.

A moral lesson for us all. There are two camps, one is apathetic and cowardly. The other is people who are willing to pay the ultimate sacrifice of their lives to insure a secure and safe place to live. We are outnumbered folks.
The world is filled with moral cowards, who would rather bump their heads 5 times a day [silently cursing as they do] giving up their individual freedom to keep breathing.

There needs to be a brutal campaign of truth telling showing these cultists for they really are. I made a suggestion the other day, to put up hundreds of billboards across this country showing how the young girls world wide are bloodily circumcised at the tender age of 8 or 9. I mean show this graphically...shock the living hell out of the fat, lazy, immoral gibbering masses that live in this country. Let them know this is where their future family members are headed.
We need to stop pussyfooting around when it comes to the muslims. If they don't like hearing the truth, they can either make the internal changes they need to make or they can get the hell out of this country. I do mean all of them, even the ones who were born here.
I am talking about not using democracy to defeat these
enemies, I'm talking about using the most effective weapons on hand to rid ourselves of this infestation.
The muslims are here for one reason only, to over turn our government and install shar'ia law on all of our heads.
I'll go down fighting and dying before I bow my head to the falseness and the cruelty of this filty enemy.
If the civilized people don't unit worldwide, there will be no civilization. If this happens, I hope we see arise from the ashes an army so brutal that islam will be wiped from the surface of the earth to heard of no more.
I've had enough. My tolerance has run out.
Have NO Mercy.

I'm not sure whether this is appropriate or not in this discussion, but I heard about this terrorist attack while I was reading this message board. Some muslim who defends suicide bombings The person's name is Rasul.

Anyway, he's basically spewing lies and trash to convince people Israel is a racist state. I'm not that good with words so I'm hoping some of you guys can go there and shut him up with cold hard facts about Palestinian society.

118 eldad

correction

"Traitors in other words" should go after "The Israelis who walk with Peace Now are people who are willing to sacrifice their countrymen (literally) for their idea of what a fair solution should be like."

#118 eldad

You are very wrong.

Put down that Uzi now!

We care for our children just the same as any other people.

Not like some of your neighbors. See here.

I've been reading this blog for some time now but haven't posted prior to now. What to say....

This video brings home the gritty reality of what Isreali's bear on a daily basis. I was most moved by the representation of day-to day items, paperwork, cell phone, etc which convey lives...futures, simply extinguished. All the time watching it thinking in the back of my mind that only a few miles from that scene were undoubtably Pali's celebrating. Sickening. As mentioned somewhere above, were this to take place in the U.S. at any interval, our populace would ultimately vote in those willing to confront the issue head-on. Millions would be marching in the street. Who gives a damn if not ourselves? I'll pray for the families of the slain. Those responsible, directly and indirectly (read: leadership) should not be drawing breath.

>Add to this the fact that America wants us to be a puppet, the EU wants us to be a pariah, and the Arabs want us dead

so true, so true, you've hit the nail on the head.

i have to say, as one of the diaspora who is demoralized and frustrated, angered and outraged, by my brothers and sisters suffering at the mercy of these monsterous people, i sometimes wonder whether israel can survive as a democracy. and no, i'm not proposing that israel shouldn't survive, either.

Sons of bitches.

Gloves off, IDF. Please.

BBC has an article on the bombing saying it is in response to the recent raid in which Israel killed eight Palestinians.

This sort of statement always lead me to ask: what part of the regularly-scheduled Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade agenda do you think was canceled at the last minute, to make room for the suicide bombing? The frickking volleyball tournament? They kill Jews; that's what they do. That's all they do. (Okay, quoting partially from The Terminator there.) This wasn't "in response to" anything, other than their own rabid hatred.

#118 eldad:

If the defense minister decides to fight this war like the Americans in Iraq or the Russians in Chechnya

Umm, I know you're angry, so am I, but you might want to think carefully about the comparison you just made there.

#116 Leftist:
I kept expecting to see a "but..." in your post. Thank you for not equivocating. There's hope for you yet :)

It is so sickening. BBC and ITV mostly showed clips of the freed Arab prisoners and a smidgen of a clip showing the bus bombing and even less than that of the 4 (3 bodies) returned Israelis. I feel enraged and sick to my stomach. How in Israel some can keep their composure, is beyond me.
My heart goes out to the families, to the friends to the country.
I, for one can not stop crying.

Those who can, stay strong, for those of us who can't right now.

Maybe Bibi needs to come back.

Today would be a good day for Israel to move the Security Fence 1 mile east.

I could only watch the first minute. It was too much for me.

# 128 zulubaby

Maybe Bibi needs to come back.

Maybe not. They may want someone that is a bit better on the fulfilling part of political promises (he was good at making them). And a bit less tainted by corruption scandals (whether real or not).

#106 Ed Moran

The Orthodox church is still anti-semitic (during Easter week the liturgy includes several passages blaming the Jews for killing Christ) and also anti-Catholic. The pope (John Paul II) had asked to visit the head of the Greek Orthodox church for reconciliation between the churches and was refused. The Orthodox still blame the Catholics for the Crusades and the sacking of Constantinople (present Istanbul, and still the seat of the Orthodox church).

The Orthodox have a strange realtionship with Islam, having been in dhimmitude for centuries. One reason Greece abstained from the U.N. vote in 1948 re: creation of Israel, was as not to upset the Arabs.

However, it must be said that during WWII, Athens Archbishop Damaskinos tried very hard to save the Jewish community and today a tree is planted in his name in Israel.

Anti-semitism is prevalent today among the Orthodox just as everywhere else. Zeitgeist?

Colt (#109)

Thanks. That's sickening but it does put things into perspective.

Words fail me.

#116 Leftist

Are you sure you're a leftist? You have moral clarity.

Not everyone on the Left is entirely composed of post-modernists obsessed with 'moral neutrality'. But those who speak for the Left, whether columnists, academics or politicians, are. Take a look around, my friend. Most of the Left is backing the other guy in this fight.

#134 veebee
When words fail, actions are called for.

ORD neighbor (#131)

I never really liked him and I do like Sharon but I'm looking for something, someone to take control of this madness. The truth is that things have improved tremendously since the construction of the fence but this bombing was so intense and so horrifying that I'm at a loss, I'm frustrated, I want these massacres to end -- permanently.

Sickening. I don't know how the people of Israel live with these actions on an ongoing basis without going completely nuclear. As graphic as the video is, the major media here in the US should televise it to educate everyone as to what is going on over there.

Another thing we need to face, if Israel was to pack her bags and move out of Israel, where would she go? Would she find herself floating in ships on the high seas with no port open in welcome?
I am afraid she has found herself in the last battle for existance as a people. I feel the strains of war cries everywhere, chanting for blood.
The canary in the mine is in jeapordy. We're next.

ORD neighbor #136
True. When is Israel going to break this stalemate?

I have not seen the video yet (i'm at my college), but just reading about this attack and its representation in the media makes me sick, angry, and wanting to pick up an AK47 and blow the head off a muslim sitting next to me. It's about time Israel stops caring what those pansy assed French(who turned nazi and never defended themselves), Russians (who can't even take care of their own country), Chinese(should I comment?) care and make it a full blown war. There will be no peace in the end. The winner will win and I do believe it will be Israel. It makes my blood boil when I see all those people trying to negotiate with those murderers. It is time to pick up a flag and march straight into battle!

I want to thank all of you for expressing your support of us in Israel. I also don't understand this complacency. This is such an unreal place to live in. And then the broadcasting of the 'piguah' (attack) gor pre-empted by the prisoner exchange! This is like a Kafka novel! When are we going to wake up???

#116 Leftist:

I feel your pain, and of course we all want to think well of ourselves. But just look at how the fringe Left has dragged the Dems in their direction. One frontrunning Presidential candidate floated the Bush Knew! slander in relation to 9/11, and the other one is whaling away on Bush Lied! re the Iraq war. It isn't just the Berkeley City Council saying these things. Not just the Duke University English department, or Indymedia, or DemocraticUnderground. Major, serious candidates for the office of the Presidency of the United States! So it's little shock that serious, educated, influential progressives are fist-pumping over these suicide bombings. You've got stones for coming here into what you must think is hostile territory and offering that thoughtful post. But as Dr. Laura says, don't talk to me about Silent Majorities. I don't respect Silent anybody on issues like this.

I used to be a very mild and quiet woman. I woke up on 9-11 and I haven't slept since.

So here it goes... Palestinians are Jordanians, and other arabs- and we all know it. You can call Israel whatever you like, palestine etc. But it will never be the land of the muslims. They kill us because they love death more than we love life. their words- right?

Here in the US and around the world, we watch these videos with horror and sadness, and the followers of islam- cheer and dance for joy.

Sharon has let his country down, the road map is garbage. Anti semites and Liberals are going to use the media to propel the jews and israel into darkness and despair.

I am so sad and afraid for my sons. What will be for them? They aspire to go to Israel, for what - to be blown up by one of the 400+ monsters released?

If WW#3 has begun, and its Good vs. Evil... Evil won today.

And no one cares.

OT, sort of: more bad news--Afghan Weapons Cache Blast Kills 7 GIs

The article notes that this brings the total number of American personnel killed in Afghanistan to 100; despite the fact that only 16 were killed from the start of the war to the fall of the Taliban.

The pattern holds for the US and for Israel; in open warfare, our forces are unstoppable, and crush the enemy with low losses. Rather, our people get killed when we try to play nice in the aftermath.

I just watched it.

Unholy shit.

Time to get that boffensive tshirt: Fuck Islam

#90  cameo 

If you go to the following url you can get a Quicktime version of the video that can be saved to your local drive.

[Link: server24.castup.net:7070...]

its more than 60 mb.

Speaking at a mass rally to welcome 21 Lebanese prisoners freed by Israel hours earlier, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah said his guerrillas could capture more Israelis to bargain for the freedom of Lebanese still held in Israeli prisons.

F*** it..time to clean out the closet!

Andrew B.

And, if you can believe it: PM: Israel will not tolerate kidnap and ransom

#137 zulubaby
Well, it's not so much about liking a particular politician. Some of us don't like politicians at all (or at least not until they transform themselves into decent statesmen). Who says this madness needs to be taken control of? Let it spend itself elsewhere, tasked with destroying itself. It's far easier to redirect than to absorb.

Frustration, horror and end to the atrocities will come with a real, tangible, undisputed victory. Whenever it comes.

I got an email saying that the author of this piece was killed in todays attack.

Ill look for confirmation.

[Link: www.jewishworldreview.com...]

I replied: "About who?"

He looked at me as if I had landed from another planet. "About who? About everyone who was attacked last night."

I nodded. "Yes, of course I heard."

"Then why aren't YOU crying?"

wow, just saw some bbc footage that i actually agreed with. painted hezbollah unfavorably, showed the suicide bombing, pointed out that the freed prisoners will probably return to terror and said how israelis were questioning why they were acting so weakly! all points with which i agreed!

#135 Colt

Rational leftists get no press, what can I say? It's the nature of the business. Reasonable viewpoints don't sell papers. I wouldn't want to hazard a guess as to the ratio of idiots to reasonable leftists but I know many people who consider themselves politically left that have a hell of a lot more in common with the people who visit LGF than with the so-called leftist establishment of columnists, academics, and politicians.
Of course I have no data to back this up but I believe that a silent majority of left-leaning people knows that we must all put aside our differences and unite to fight this dragon. Unfortunately I think many who hold these beliefs have yet to admit it to themselves for fear of siding with their rivals. I believe disagreement in polital discourse is healthy for democracy but when someone knocks on your door and says, in effect, "Hello, I'm here to kill you" all bets are off. We need to somehow distinguish between our political rivals and our avowed enemies. There is a big difference.

eldad #118,

Thanks for answering some of my questions, apparently as I was asking them. Astonishing how folks can turn a blind eye to what's in their face. Human nature is strange indeed. Peace at any cost is clearly not peace at all.

#59..."What do we do instead?"

Well, here are a couple suggestions (what to do with the arabs).

Since a thermonuclear device is expensive and difficult to use in close quarters, how about the following ideas:

1. We establish a permanent Muslim Homeland on the far side of the moon.

2. We tell the arabs that the Jewish Homeland in at the South Pole. (They will all flock there to take it over)

3. We tell the arabs that the Jewish Homeland is at the bottom of the ocean...(same idea as number 2 with more immediate results).

4. We move all the Jews to Florida.

I'm liking #3 personally although I see value in 1 and 2. 4 wouldn't solve anything so I'm not in favor of it either.

Any thoughts? What would it cost to ship all of those bastards to the moon?

You know what that video reminded me of?

The photos of the shattered bodies of the WTC jumpers, on the sidewalk before the towers fell.

Our old friend Tal G in Jerusalem says that he used to live in the area of this bus blast in the Nineties. Also that President Clinton's motorcade went down that very street during one of his visits.

I once asked Tal how could he be so unemotional when posting about these atrocities. He admitted that he had become numbed to them.

Not me; not ever.

F*ck the "voices of conscience", who make common cause with the jihadis. May they be first on the beheading block, if the islamabaddies win.

#145 Occassional Reader:

If you dig a bit deeper into that article, it includes casualties outside Afghanistan altogether, but lumped in as part of Operation Enduring Freedom.

The total number includes deaths in other parts of Operation Enduring Freedom, such as a helicopter crash in the Philippines nearly two years ago that killed 10 American soldiers.

In other words, if they can inflate the numbers to look bad, the press can and will do so.

#143

You got me on the "silent majority"! See #154. I agree with you. The Dems know they can't win on substance so they sell out to pander to the worst instincts of the confused and frightened public. Believe me, I am more sickened by leftists who cash in on people's fear and use it to manipulate them into voting Democrat than I am by the most ardent rightwing redneck. At least he comes by his beliefs honestly.

# 140 veebee
When they will have a collective desire to really do it all the way to complete unconditional victory. Sorry for WWII-sounding language. Then again, it is WWIV (I think Cold was should count for #3; it got hot enough for enough people).

#156 YY

I like #1. The thought of those pagans looking for the crescent moon so they could start/end Ramadan is priceless.

There can be no rational discussion with these raving lunatics who follow their death-cult. There is no purer form of hate than that of the Islamists (I believe this encompasses all Muslims who regularly practice their religion) nor any collective paranoia so psychotic. I think we have to accept this bitter, unpalatable truth and fight back without mercy and with an iron fist. Destroy them before they destroy us...there is no other solution. Let them taste the sorrow they routinely visit upon us.

#159 Leftist.

Come on you are really RWC aren't you? If not thank God for someone like you on the left, and I pray there are many more.

Now, if a muslim posts here saying he/she is a moderate, and is agains't these bombings then I can faint.

# 116 Leftist:

I'm so glad to see someone from the left (well, self-described) who keeps things in perspective. Evil is, and should be, evil -- politics aside.

Thank you.

#154 Leftist

A lot of us here, myself included, are recovering liberals. A few of my liberal beliefs are actually holding up, many others have not stood the test of time. Regardless, you are obviously in goodwill and for me that's more important than ideology (although some ideologies preclude goodwill). Speaking for myself, you're very welcome here.

So if you want to fight terrorism and save baby seals, I can live with that! ;-)

Ratberg is right.

We can't beat them at their own game. Nasrallah proved that (by showing us that by snatching O'Beid and and Dirani we would not get Ron Arad back)
so we have to respond in the matter that hurts them most.
Sharon should announce that for security reasons the fence is moving x kilometers eastward and three more settlements around jerusalem are to be constructed.

This should happen after every terrorist attack.

And, of course, we should demolish them (the terrorists) but I still assume that's wishful thinking.
Come to think of it, my first idea was wishful thinking too.

I guess Israel's real responce will be to distribute this video clip and write a scathing letter to the times.
That's showing them.

Maybe we'll release some more terrorists.

And for all you bibi fans - all show - no substance.

As an Arab-American, I am ashamed. I showed this clip to my mother, because she has, to put it in the most unabrasive way, "traditional" views about Jews. This film brought my mother to tears. I am sure that she is, at this moment, reevaluating her "traditional" views.

We cannot relate to the scum that did this. We've never felt like we needed to disown our people until now. You can read about these things, but when it is before your eyes, it hits home in an unimaginable way. Hell awaits many of my people, and that weighs heavy on my heart, while these victims are likely tasting the sweet fruits in paradise.

I feel ashamed that I'm even mentioning my feelings when I lost no one that I loved, as if I need some pity for my disillusionment.

If one person could change what my people have become, I would do happily do whatever it takes. If one is going to kill themselves for a cause, why can't it be for the uplifting of man instead of the destruction of innocents?

Leftist: Used to be a big New Democratic Party supportor in Canada. My grandfather helped found the CCF party on which the NDP was founded. Every member of my family has been part of the NDP in some fashion as far back as I can recall. We are also all strong union folk and strong advocates of gun control.

I'm not anymore. The left made me sick over and over. I kept making excuses for what they were doing, like you are doing now, climaing it was a minority of leftists doing it, that the left concept itself was not wrong, only the extremists. I'm not sure exactly what moment I think I finally ceased being a leftist (as in hanging on to my personal delusion about what that actually meant) and I ended my support for the NDP forever. It happened at some point around the time that Svend Robinson tried to cross over to show his solidarity with that murderer Arafat and I saw the pink papier mache antiwar protest tank for the first time. Somewhere around then.

I know think being a leftist is a form of mental illness I have been blessed to recover from.

A mal, shukran, your words touched me. they offer a glimmer of hope.
you sound like a fine person.
lizzy, in jerusalem

#167 Amal; thank you for your post, and even more for your own small act to change minds. Keep up the good work.

#154 Leftist and #165 papijoe: I'm something of a recovering liberal, too (a process that began well prior to 9/11 but accelerated sharply afterwards). There are lots of us here.

So if you want to fight terrorism and save baby seals, I can live with that!

Or perhaps; save the baby seals, and send the grownup SEaLs to kill terrorists.

@159 Leftist

You are most welcome here...and thats from an awakened redneck in East Texas. For many years until 9.11 I was all for live let live. Not any more. Every survival instinct tells me that me and mine are in mortal danger.
The left and the right need to meet in the middle as centrists, we need to continue our honest discourses at the same time we're watching each others backs.
You can get into my foxhole anytime, I have your back.

#167 Amal

Oh shit guess I have to go faint now!!!!!!!

never again

Amal, welcome at a sad time. Your words are a comfort to me. Go read "The Trouble With Islam". by Irshad Manji. I think she will bring you comfort. She brings me confort.

There ya go, Jim in MPLS

Holocaust take 2, with Sharon's cabinet doing a credible impersonation of judenrat.... #118, don't confuse democracy with ghetto mentality.

#154 Leftist

I know many people who consider themselves politically left that have a hell of a lot more in common with the people who visit LGF than with the so-called leftist establishment of columnists, academics, and politicians.

If what you are saying above is true --then you are in fact confirming one of the problems that seems to plague the "left" and that is they align themselves with groups, organizations and parties who hold views and positions they DO NOT agree with.

How could someone be "politically left" and not have much in common with leftist establishments and politicians?

I would think it more honest to support whichever side or political party one has the most in common with. What one values the most since no political side or agenda is likely to be 100% for everyone. We choose our priorities.

Democracy is about choice --we are not obligated to commit to forever supporting any one political party.

lizzy, as always, we'll be praying that G-d protects your family.

Amal

Correct me if I am wrong but Amal in Arabic means "hope". Well, I was glad to read your post. It provides a bit of hope.

On the other hand, read what this idiot at the jerusalem post writes:

The prisoners emerged from Israeli busses showing the peace sign and praising Hizbullah leader Sheikh Nasrallah. They said that in the next deal all those serving life sentences will be released ,accused Israel of setting the region on fire and yelled out god is great.

peace sign

How could someone writing for a newspaper be sooooo stupid.

uuuggggghhhhhhh

just saw it... absolutely devastaing.. worst is the comments the photographer is making to another person present...
" i think its 9 "
and someting like
" ha pizuer achi norar she raiti a pam"
"the worst,, (for want of a better word,,) scattering , ive ever seen.
im too sick at heart to continue tonight, goodnight

#154 Leftist

when someone knocks on your door and says, in effect, "Hello, I'm here to kill you" all bets are off. We need to somehow distinguish between our political rivals and our avowed enemies. There is a big difference.

Damn right. The one thing more disgraceful than the politicisation of the war on terror (if we can even call it that on days like today) is the silence from the Arab world, the Muslim world and the Left. Posts like yours, and that of Amal in #167, are a silver lining today. But today has been very dark indeed.

Abused, expelled from their homes and put in fucking gas chambers, Jews cannot even live on their own land without being massacred. Scarier still, a good number of Jews do not understand that they are again under threat.

Get out of Gaza. Seal it off to ALL traffic into Israel. Kill ANYONE who tries to cross. Remove the PLO Arabs from the West Bank. TRANSFER them to Trans-Jordan and Gaza. Fuck the PLO! FUCK any PLO supporting muslim that doesn't like it. They do not deserve a fucking thing.

ORD neighbor #160
Unfortunately, it sounds like never.

Amal
Thank you.

On topic, 70% to 80% of Apestinian Arab children desire to be shaheeds.

Red Herring (#176)

STFU, you insensitive putz.

The one thing (besides horror, obviously) that I took away from this video is the stark contrast between the immediate Israeli response to a bombing, and the standard animalistic Palestinian "Car Swarm".

It really puts the two cultures in perspective, and makes "moral equivalence" a hard sell.

I didn't know there were so many recovering libralaholics here. The sounds of closet doors popping open is deafening. I avoided politics at all costs until 9/11, and then realized that I lean right. I didn't even realize until then that the political correctness was coming from the left. With that name I just assumed it came from both side.

Anyway, great to hear from Leftest, and Amal. AND Lizzy!

Why does Israel permit this atrocity and so many past atrocities, to continue, on and on and on? Isn't there a breaking point for those people? How do they tolerate it? It's a mystery to me. I always thought jews were smart. Right now, they look like sheep to me. Time to let the IDF do its job and to Hell with world opinion. The "world" will never respect Israel until it resolutely causes this scourge to stop by any and all means. I thought jews were smart. Guess I was wrong...so sorry for the losses...again....

Hey it must feel rewarding to be a terrorist right now.

#186 JimInMPLS

I didn't know there were so many recovering libralaholics here.

Include me in that. Though I had an excuse in my age ;-)

#152 kath f

Yes, I just heard on the radio that Yechezkel Goldberg was killed.

So the Israelis government has announced there will be no retaliation to this suicide attack. What's the next step, more Jews kidnapped and more suicidal bombings....and what will be the reaction of the world....***crickets***

Why doesn't the Israelis get it....sheesh!! Rip the damned rose coloured glasses off mon! If there is no retaliation, there will be no outcry from so called civilization. And then the suicides will just increase in number and ferocity.
Maybe part of the solution is to have a change of regime.
Establish a democratic republic, and then set up your leadership.
Get cracking!

How many Jews need to be kidnapped, how many dead bodies preserved in formaldehyde need to be returned before you need to do as you were commanded by your G-D. Let the dead bury the dead.
Quit worshipping the corpus delicti of those who have already passed on, and start being concerned about the quick and breathing!
You're sacrificing for nothing otherwise.
Those who are already gone cannot ever be harmed again, it's those who are left behind who are in jeapordy.
Now another can of worms has been opened. As if you didn't already have enough danger to face.

#144 Shoshana: I agree completely. No one cares, at least no one who is any position to do anything about it, and that is the saddest thing of all.
#154 Leftist: I was raised in a democratic family, and am now no longer leftist. Like a lot of people here it seems. I agree with a lot of what you have said here, one of my best friends is a democrat and active in local politics. Thanks for contributing in a reasoned manner, sure would like to discuss issues with you over a beer, though.

at 4pm eastern time
neithet google news now yagoo news had anything about the terrorist attack in Jerusalem

#189 Colt

Was it college that did it to you? Consider yourself lucky you figured it out at such a good age. I always enjoy your posts by the way!

What can WE do?

I know that if you are a supporter of the Palestinian [bigoted word]s, you can join the ISM and learn how to protect weapons tunnels and blow up coast-side sports pubs, but what if you'd like to help Israel defend herself? Will we ever see "non-official" groups of Israelis mounting strikes against obvious terrorist targets in the West Bank and Gaza? I don't think the average Israeli can trust the IDF to protect them with BOTH arms tied behind their backs. Perhaps it's time for the average Israeli and those who wish to help them get down and dirty with their sworn enemy.

#175 Renna

Was that like prophetic.. kind of?

Before everyone jumps all over fred...

Isn't there a breaking point for those people?

No. Those people actually pride themselves on having a virtually non-existent breaking point. Some of those people actually survived the Holocaust. Some influential organizations and individuals here are trying to sell the Israeli model of resisting terrorism to American audiences. I hope it doesn't happen.

Perhaps you are right to say that Israel will be much more respected when it starts fighting the terror for real. But you also have to keep in mind that Israeli economy is very sensitive to outside pressures.

#194 JimInMPLS

College? I'm 18 :-)

Luckily, when 9/11 came, I had little in the way of victimology to overcome.

I always enjoy your posts by the way!

Thanks :-)

I do not say "those people" in a derogatory sense.

Hizbollah is bragging ...they who are so bullet proof...they plan on kidnapping more Israelis, this time alive for bargaining.
They grow braver by the minute, knowing they can do this and get away with it. Is the fight already over and we just don't know it yet?
Sharon threatening using procedures not used if it happens again? Yeah right, his jaw muscles are the strongest thing going for him. More empty noises.
I don't know who I dispise the most, Sharon or the other world leaders who are complicit in these atrocities.
We need to start manufacturing bullets that are laced with pigs blood, we need to start making up body bags made of pig skins for the terrorists who are going to be the next shaheeds.

Amal

Welcome to LGF. I'm sorrowful that you are faced with such a caluminy. If more of you would step forward to stop the accelerating violence that is going to end up stretching from one end of the world to the other.
If the muslims want to be faithful to their choice of religion, that's been okay by me until 9.11.
Then when I keep being presented with one message after another the muslims are not satisfied with their corner of the world and they want it all, that's not okay.
Now they come into western countries not with the intent of living peacefully side by side with others of different faiths but to either enslave, dhimmitude or convert by force I have a real problem with that.
I have NO desire to ever be a muslim. Under any circumstances. That should be enough of an answer to any prostlyzing muslim to understand.
They are sticking their noses where they don't belong!

Kath F #152:

Thank you for the link to Chezi Goldberg's article. I have sent it on to several of my friends, with the following note:

Hello friends ... I am very saddened by today's terrorist attack in Jerusalem. This article was written in December 2001 following a similar attack on a mall in that same city, and its' author, Chezi Goldberg, was reported killed in today's commuter bus explosion. An advocate for the Jerusalem-based Group "Adolescents & Families at Risk", his loss is particularly tragic. My father works in a similar capacity, and because of this I cannot help but think of how great Chezi's loss is for those he serves.

Please join me in praying for an end to the sufferring of the Israeli people, and the suffering of those Palestinians who would like to put an end to the campaign of violence yet are powerless to do so under the regime of Arafat and his thugs. I have to think they exist, so I pray for them, too.

I also pray that the Bush administration can see its' way to getting rid of Arafat and the Palestinian Authority, the first step to any ME peace plan.

This is the saddest thing I have seen in a long time. May God grant Israel justice for this senseless act of hate, and be with the families of those who now mourn.

#197 Veebee

The economy screw the economy. Are you trying to say that if IDF once and for all crushed these terrorist groups that it might hurt the economy? What about the outside forces on the US economy remember those little buildings called the WORLD trade center. I am still in shock (and wonder at times) how our economy could survive a disaster of such magnitude.

Chugging along at warp 4 again today I see. ;-)

In response to a post above --what can WE do --here are some links of organizations who support Israel.

Links from Haganah Internet: [Link: haganah.us...]

Friends of IDF: [Link: www.israelsoldiers.org...]

Save our Soldiers [Link: www.sosfund.org...]

Volunteer in Israel: [Link: www.sar-el.org...]
The National Project for Volunteers for Israel -- This is actually going to Israel and serving in a volunteer support position with the IDF --packaging first aid kits, working in the cafeteria, computers --etc.

Leftist--lots of LGFers are "left" on social policy and "right" when it comes to foreign policy and terrorism. You have a lot more in common with most posters than you might think.

Amal--bless you from the bottom of my heart. I pray that there are more and more who think like you each day.

To those who think Israel should just ignore US disapproval--don't forget that the Bush administration has already applied financial sanctions because of the fence. It's not just talk.

#163, #164, #165, #170, #171 THANK YOU!

#177 Nancy

I hear what your saying and I agree to a point but I don't think this identity crisis (for lack of a better term) is suffered only by the left. I think we all have a tendency to organize things into groups and we get a little lazy and fall back on certain assumptions that are often wrong.

In most cases categorizing things into groups is a good survival mechanism. If I see a snake coming towards me I don't try to get a closer look to see if it looks poisonous, I get the hell out of its path just to be safe. But this tendency to label and group has a downside. I don't think that many of us really fit the classic definitions of our political affiliations. For example: Why is it assumed that a Republican must be opposed to gay marriage? Why must a Leftist (sorry but I don't feel represented by ANY existing political party) be pro-gun-control?

Just because I appear to have more in common with the Democratic Party than with the Republican Party does not make me a Democrat. Ugh. Perish the thought. I guess I am saying that I wish there was a moderate party somewhere in between the extremes because both the Dems and the Repubs take positions I cannot bring myself to ignore just so I can affiliate myself with one of the two horses in the race. Is it my civic duty to hold my nose and cast a vote regardless of my objections? Maybe. I'm struggling with that.

Jim in Mnpls - It's almost hard to be conservative in the cities these days. There's so damn many libs there it's rediculous. I'm still surprised that Pawlenty got elected. Even so, every one of my friends there are conservative, well except for one's wife. I grew up conservative from the get go. We are all products of our upbringing to a certain degree. My childhood best friend in Wayzata had to evolve away towards conservatism like you have. Stay warm. It's nippy there today, just be glad you're not in Grand Forks or some God forsaken place like that. It's about -25 there right now.

Interesting development in US & Saudi relations - is the World Tribune a reliable source or not?

U.S. has quietly expelled dozens of Saudi diplomats

fred #199
I know. But you have to agree that it sounds a bit awkward.

Jim

Are you trying to say that if IDF once and for all crushed these terrorist groups that it might hurt the economy?

I'm saying that Israel is volnerable to the international boycotts.

At times like this I'm not concerned about western notions of morality. I'm thinking about the universal standard- something that too many on the left seem to ignore- plain old survival.

There's no negotiating with evil; no compromise; no understanding; no dealing; no re-education. There's only a simple 2-step process to follow: first you recognize evil, second you eradicate it. No hesitation, no deliberation, no regrets.

Poisonous ideas like radical islam and antisemitism spread like mindless viruses through the world. The only real way to eradicate them is to deprive them of their hosts.

Would someone mind convincing me that some other option exists? (Suicide doesn't count.)

# 201 sharona,

thats a good idea.

I spread the link via a few messageboards today. also with the ulterior motive a couple times to make people see a "face" they can connect to this latest attack.

here I thought it was just the right place to make people aware that he was killed.

such a loss.

and such a brutality.....I couldnt really watch the video as such, seems my Comp. isnt up to it. but I did see single pictures and some scenes....:-(

#207 ND MN TX

Hey, thanks. I was kind of shocked by T. Paw as the radio folks like to call him too. I am glad I am in the city instead of way up north too, although our high temp in mpls today was like -10 as well. Heat wave coming this weekend they say maybe +20. These are F temperatures for you C people out there btw.

Remote starter ON.

sharona (#208)

I'd read that some Saudis had been stripped of their diplomatic status but I hadn't heard that they'd been booted out! About bloody time too. Thanks for the good news.

I cross-posted a link to this in an American shooting enthusiasts forum. Here was the response by someone I know to be a very devout Christian:

Dear Lord, you taught us to turn the other cheek, to love our enemies, to not resist evil.

Forgive me, Lord, but I cannot.

I will not.

I hate, Lord. I hate with every thread of my being. I hate the people who do this, the culture that encourages, shelters, and enables them, and the pagan faith that drives them.

There are no limits to it. Since they target women, and now even send them as the weapons themselves, then their women are valid targets. Since they target innocent children, and raise theirs to continue committing such acts of barbarism, then their children are valid targets.

I will feel no remorse, no hesitation, no compassion. I will call for their destruction en masse, until they learn, as a people, as a culture, and as a religion, to fear. Really FEAR. Let them be blasted into the darkest corners of the Earth and left there to rot, unnoticed and unmourned.

I will not cease this hatred until all of them are either dead or crushed so badly that the very thought of throwing a pebble will cause terror in their hearts.

Forgive me, Lord, for I am less than your teachings, and great in my sin. I offer no excuses. I only ask forgiveness.

Kill them. Kill them ALL!%3[Link: iblockquote>...]

#159 Leftist:

Thanks so much for coming out of the closet. I've been following this weblog for months and you gave me the courage to add my left-leaning two-cents worth.

# 156 YY:

Thanks for your list of options in dealing with muslims. great suggestions.

LGF: I'm a product of the Vietnam generation from a working-class family so I hope you can understand my apprehension at trusting the far right "military-industrial compex". At anyrate, my views are fairly left of center on domestic issues, but on foreign affairs and national security I'm far more hawkish. We must protect ourselves and help our allies, especially Israel, in it's struggle to survive. How can we convince our leaders that it's time to take off the kid-gloves and woop some ass?

And rest assured there are more of us lurking out here in support of Israel and all decent civilized peoples.

It's been a while since I posted anything, frankly due to the troll-ery that's been going on for the last several months.

But seeing this video---here and only here---I hope reminds us all that LGF is far more than a spot to goof off and act like morons (intentionally or unwittingly).

Feet all by themselves, other body parts, and the stuff of modern life, strewn across a block where it seems only minutes before was shady, peaceful, and pretty. Then this horrendous ugliness---an ugliness not only of the physical sense, but also a reflection of the ugliness of soul that caused it---happens and the injured and the families of the dead are left to simply absorb it.

All I can see now is rage. Rage against the abominations that caused this, the death-cult culture that condones it, and the impotence of free governments that do nothing in the face of it.

Way too often on the internet, things get compared to the ultimate evils that man has known, idiots are called Nazis, fools called communists. But let's remember that this---THIS---is what pure evil looks like. NOTHING can justify the obliteration of innocent people taking a bus! There is NO justification for the murder of innocents, and only hate and revulsion for the architects of such a heinous, inhuman act.

May this piece of filth roast in Hell for eternity, along with all those who support or celebrate his actions.

The Paleos practice murder indiscriminately, a collective punishment for their perceived slights.

When will Israel finally treat them to collective punishment in return?

As long as the family and neighbors of the suicide cretin is confident that they will remain alive to enjoy the adulation they inevitably get, this shit will continue.

Let the body parts of their women and children fly as well. It's about time they got a taste of their own medicine.

This is so sad, I pray for all the victims and their families. This is war. Israel must do whatever is necessary to protect itself.

Wow, someone get the 3 in 1 oil out. Lots of squeeky closet doors here today. Must say though that I am VERY happy about that! Pixy welcome.

#181 Colt

#154 Leftist

when someone knocks on your door and says, in effect, "Hello, I'm here to kill you" all bets are off. We need to somehow distinguish between our political rivals and our avowed enemies. There is a big difference.

Damn right.

In some states in the U.S., you're justified in killing someone who trespasses into your home and threatens your life.

This video is unbelievable -- was that human flesh hanging in the entrance of the bus?

Why doesn't Israel outlaw the hatespeech of "martyrdom" -- actually make the words that lead up to an act like this illegal? I realize there wouldn't be enough prisons to hold all the suicide loving fanatics and their 5 year old gun-toting protoges, but if Nazi propaganda can be illegal in Germany, why isn't talk of jihad illegal in Israel?

What, was I hallucinating?
Prison, shmison. F-cking TRANSFER their asses back to Jordyptistan.

#220 QueenEsther

This video is unbelievable -- was that human flesh hanging in the entrance of the bus?

Yes. I don't have the words to express my sorrow at this. This, I suspect, is what it's like every time one of those damnable Jordyptian splodeydopes commits a homicide bombing. I've never seen it this graphically before and it's about time I did.

Thank you Charles for showing this.

For any LLL's out there, remember that Skank Corrie of the Dozers died so splodeydopes could live long enough to commit acts such as this.

I clicked off after 30 seconds

my heart goes out to those Israelis who lost loved ones today - and to all my Israeli friends

QueenEsther-

Jordyptistan

Perfect!

another testimony

You do know that a single bombing raid of 10 jets releasing 50 bombs 1000kg bombs (one jet for each person killed anda bombs for each person injured) would cause enough casualties and mass panic to convince the Palis to stop.

Let 10,000 die in three seconds and it will all stop.

And do let the first bomb fall on Yasir the abominable; fear, it just works.

Yes. I wondered the same thing, and concluded that what I saw in the video by the steering wheel of the bus could only be flesh. Truth be told, I had actually braced myself for the video to be far more bloody than it is. I think the cameraman must have chosen not to show the faces of the dead, or the faces of decapitated heads. And if so I certainly approve of that choice. If one of us were standing on that street, or any of the streets where these bombs have gone off, I know that we would see things ten times worse. Heads lying in the street -- half a human being still gasping -- children being cooked alive. Pardon me, I feel compelled to state this without euphemism or softening or evasion. And the "wounded" -- my God! -- the "wounded" -- 50 "wounded" today, thousands "wounded" by the enemy. How quickly the news articles pass over the "wounded" with that one word, and never say anything more about them. Charles has linked to sources about what it means to be "wounded" in this way -- in the name of all that's holy, how do the NY Times and the Washington Post and NPR justify themselves for never running any stories about these "woundings", and for never reporting on how many BLINDINGS, how many massive third-degree burns, how many amputations, how many who have lost their hearing, how many who have lost their scalps, how many who have lost their noses? And never a word, never a word, about how many people in Israel, especially children, who are wracked by nightmares every single night?

#225 veebee:
Gevalt.

veebee (#225)

The whole account is absolutely harrowing.

Just so people understand what "wounded" means:

The office rang. Erik Schechter, one of our military correspondents, was among the wounded. How had I missed seeing him there? We left immediately for the hospital. Erik's wounds were described as "moderate." What that meant was that his knee-cap had been shattered and that he had sustained shrapnel wounds and vascular damage. He will spend between three and six months in recovery.

I am also a recovering liberaholic. Since 9/11 I have realized that everything I ever thought was wrong. I will never vote NDP again. I wish I could vote for George Bush but I am stuck in Canuckistan. As I Jew I take solace from all the words here. I read Psalm 83 (thanks RightWingConspirator #52). I think so many Jews have slipped away from their own heritage and practice Judaism as Liberalism. They think that we stole the land of the poor poor ancient Palestinians and that it is our fault. At least that is how many in my own family view it. It is a sickness of the soul - a kind of self-loathing - like American anti-Americans. As I have said on other threads - thanks to all LGFers and Charles - you help to keep me sane in this battle. I have also found that reading Torah and history and frontpagemagazine.com helps. I feel the stirring of "speedily walking upright to Zion". We will have stand firm and fight.

Here is the DU thread on the video:

[Link: www.democraticunderground.com...]

It's hard to say whether the video or the apologists are more sickening.

Here are the DU threads on the bombing itself:

[Link: www.democraticunderground.com...]

[Link: www.democraticunderground.com...]

[Link: www.democraticunderground.com...]

[Link: www.democraticunderground.com...]

Leftist: I think maybe a more appropriate nik would be "moderate." And you know that if you posted those comments on DU or Indymedia, you would immediately be labeled a "neo-con," right? At any rate, welcome to LGF from a former leftist turned conservative (although not Republican:-)

Amal: Thank you for your post. Amal's experience shows why videos like this should be aired as widely as possible. Yes, there are sickos who would delight in watching innocent people killed, but there are others, including Muslims like Amal, who would be sickened by it and might begin to see things differently. Just like viewing footage of the concentration camps. It's one thing to read "6 million Jews were killed in the camps" (who can begin to grasp that number in their minds?) and another to see the piles of bodies, hair, shoes. For me, the most powerful Holocaust picture ever is that famous one of the little boy with the star on his jacket faced with a German soldier. You look at that picture and you know that boy knew he would die soon.

Some of you may remember that I was keeping a Magen David Adom kitty and throwing share change into it whenever I came across an Jew-hating troll on LGF. After watching that video, which is a far worse display of Jew-hatred than words written by dim-witted trolls, I added $27 to the kitty so I can send $50 to MDA. Those MDA rescue workers fill me with awe.

If anybody else would care to give (remember that MDA is not supported by the International Red Cross), here's the site. I can't think of a worthier organization:

[Link: www.armdi.org...]

My prayers and condolences for the families of these poor souls; and may the bomber and all those with like thoughts burn in hell for all eternity.

Amen. I support the Magen David Adom too. I only wish I could send them more.

#67 Mark

I won't sit around a table and make chit chat with somebody who sits there and tells me that these Israelis have only themselves to blame when their children are roasted alive.

Unfortunately there are many American & Canadian Jews who feel the same way as your friend.

Boggles my mind!

*tears*

Donna V., you're wonderful.

#206 Leftist

I don't think that many of us really fit the classic definitions of our political affiliations. For example: Why is it assumed that a Republican must be opposed to gay marriage? Why must a Leftist (sorry but I don't feel represented by ANY existing political party) be pro-gun-control?

I hear ya exactly and I believe more and more many of us are describing ourselves in exactly the same manner.

Im a British Canadian and cannot identify with our Conservative party, but either can I with our Liberal party, for no other reason then their anti-semetic attitudes at times, and anti-americanism---although, granted, our NEW PM is not as bad as our recent one.

There was a recent quote on Andrew Sullivans Blog which goes to show you that many feel the same way that we do these days!

ON BUSH? It says something about what has happened to the Republican party that supporting fiscal responsibility is now the position of the "hard left." And it says something about some Democrats that you either have to hate this president or love him unconditionally. Why can't a grown-up have a complicated position? I'm a fiscal conservative, social/cultural liberal and foreign policy hawk

#230 ex-liberal

I read Psalm 83 (thanks RightWingConspirator #52).

My pleasure.

#231 Jheka

Holy SH*T. Post a 'Puke Warning' before links like that.

A kernel of knowledge at DU is like clove of garlic in a vampire's coffin.

My goy/athiest/reformed Christian/kinda-want-to-think-there-is-a-God prayers and condolences go out to the families of those killed by this [bigoted word].

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What the f*ing mother f*ing sh*t stomping hell is going on:

Israel unlikely to retaliate

Israel is unlikely to take any drastic military action in retaliation over today’s terror attack, in which 10 Israelis were killed when a suicide bomber exploded on a crowded bus.

Following an emergency meeting of the defense establishment senior sources told Maariv that Israel was not going to take any drastic measures. No major military operations were considered, and no general closure will be imposed on the territories.

No reasons were given for this decision, but it can be assumed that Israel hoped this would be an isolated incident. The fact that Arafat’s Fatah has taken responsibility could put the heat on him to either allow Paslestinian security forces to take on the terrorist infrastructure, or possibly risk losing the international protection that has prevented Israel from expelling him.

Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom and Agriculture Minister Israel Katz have both called on the government to expel Arafat. “He is an obstacle to peace, a leader who instigates, aids and abets terror “, he said.

FULL TEXT OF THE ARTICLE

Please tell me this is a psy-op and they are just wanting to throw the scum off track.

#240 RightisRight:

Here's a warning that you should take seriously. DO NOT link to the site in post #58 that one sicko links to in the video thread. There isn't enough soap and water on earth to make you feel clean after visiting that site (I made the mistake and am warning others). I'm serious. Don't do it.

BTW, the thread has re-opened after being locked for a little while. It's everything you need to know about what Israel is up against on it's "Western" front.

Jheka and RightIsRight

I was there earlier today. You want to feel sick/have a good laugh just look at some of the comments made by 'Resistance.'

This may be one of my favorites, in regards to our beloved Idiotarian of the Year 2003 recipient and the ISM testimony:

It's four eyewitnesses, and they all say the killing was intentional. I trust them, because I trust peace activists.

#241, unfortunately this is no psy-op. Israel may well be the only country in the world that allows its Jewish citizens to be murdered with impunity.

Victim was a 'lifeline' for immigrant kids
By GIL HOFFMAN

A little over a year ago, Canadian-born Yechezkel "Chezi" Goldberg wrote an article about his feelings when he heard about a failed terrorist attack while riding on a Jerusalem bus.

He preached for years against making concessions to terrorism in articles he wrote for The Jewish Press and in a radio show he hosted on Arutz 7.
But Goldberg, a social worker in Jerusalem and Betar Illit, wrote mostly about his specialty: saving American immigrant children at risk. His Jewish Press column was called "Lifeline," and he proved to be just that for families having difficulty with their aliya and Orthodox children who abused drugs and alcohol.

"When we, here, look at a miraculous escape from a deadly attack and breathe a sigh of relief, we lose the war on terrorism," Goldberg wrote. "When they fired to kill, [the terrorists] made their intentions clear... They will try again.
"We have been warned. The next time, they might hit the target. They next time, we might not be so lucky."

Goldberg was not lucky on Thursday, when he was killed in the terrorist attack on a No. 19 bus in Jerusalem.

/from Jerusalem Post

I am going tomorrow to Historiska museet of Stockholm to ask them what thay pay to Dror Feiler to bring real jewish flesh to appease 500 000 Muslims in Sweden...

Leftist:
The idea of rational discourse and heated disagreement coexisting is so attractive and yet so difficult to achieve these days. Hard to find a "partner". Tolkein, Lewis and others were in an informal Lit. club known as The Inklings. They would get into it hot and heavy, yet remain dear friends. This just isn't easy to do in the Jerry Springer age.

As to the bombing vid…
to preface:
I have lived and worked in one of the worst neighborhoods of Chicago. I worked with, yes touched, people that behaved like animals. Their humanity could only be seen by faith. Drug abuse, Alcohol Abuse, Sexual Abuse, Spousal Abuse, Jobless, Abandoned and Homeless; all could be found in one person sometimes!!! The filth and stench and carelesness for life. The hatred, bitterness and evil. I was held to that neighborhood for eight years by the love and support of several hundred people and the firm conviction that God put me in that situation to learn, among other things, the depths human beings can fall to. Mostly for my own sake.

This bombing, this I have no context for. This is further down than I have ever seen. This is the perversion of joy that permeates Hell. This is anti-love, anti-life, anti-humanity. It's even anti-self.

"Greater love hath no man, than he who would lay down his life For his friends."

weeping… wailing… dust on my head…

weeping… wailing… dust on my head…

Yes.

Gonzo (#214),

Thanks for helping spread the real face of terrorism.

Those are some powerful feelings and strong words.

I think the reaction and response you posted is why the press tries so hard to whitewash the terrorists actions with moral equivalency and paint them in a sympathetic light.

Boy, show that on morning TV and thn defy Katie Couric to even talk about it!

#249 Stop Hillary:

That is part of the problem. We DON'T show these things. We allow liars and apologists to pretend as if these things don't happen. As if body parts don't get strewn about. As if children and grandmothers and GOOD PEOPLE aren't slaughtered wholesale. I despair at the fact that we stopped showing the 9-11 videos as soon almost as soon as it happened. Our government and the patriarchal press treats the public like delicate mental patients who shouldn't be allowed to get too excited. Why wasn't the Pearl video on every evening newscast? Why didn't we see the bodies hit the ground? Why won't this video and scores just like it ever see the light of day through the mainstream press? These are lies by omission. The public NEEDS to be angry. They SHOULD be shocked. We have good reason to be scared. Oh, to have a government with the courage and the ethics to tell the truth.

Leftist and Amal:

I know that it's late in the thread and many have said it already but allow me to add my voice. You are both more than welcome here. Personally, I consider myself liberal on many social issues (I just don't like the term "leftist" or "left" - I associate it with International ANSWER, communists, Amiri Baraka, etc.). I voted for Gore in 2000 because it seemed to me that domestic issues would dominate the coming years. Like many people here, my priorities have changed more than my views. First we need to save civilization and then we can put the emphasis on perfecting it.

#235
Actually, my friend's mother who blames Israel 100% -- her father was a Jew. I can sort of understand a person who takes the Arab point of view on right of return, status of the territories, etc. -- I mean I disagree of course, but I could have a civilized conversation with the person. And I suppose I could have a rational discussion with somebody on the pros and cons of non-uniformed guerillas using explosives by stealth against opponents who are under arms. But beyond that I can't go. People have got to open their eyes and see that the intifada is Jew-killing, PER SE. Also, these people who claim to care so much about the Palestinian Arabs -- I don't think they care at all. The little Arab Mulim children are human, they deserve a future, they deserve health, they deserve democracy, they deserve not to be forced to murder and suicide. I have to say I think that above half of the Pal. adults are guilty, because they proclaim that guilt, but there are many who are not, and who are tortured and raped and killed for being "collaorators". They deserve life and liberty. I care about them. These NPR types don't. Again, I have to say, the individuals I'm talking about are very nice, gentle, friendly -- but they talk so bloodthirsty on that one point. They start to talk about wanting Bush assassinated, too. I'm drawing the line. I've tried to reason with them, but past a certain point, it seems indecent to sit there any longer pretending that the conversation is still rationsal, and that such tings can be debated. I won't sit and make a case against murder with a person who is sitting there and advocating murder, per se. Fortunately I do have other friends who disagree with me about Israel, but are decent and honest enough to say that the bombings are WRONG and must STOP.

For a long time I have felt that maybe the answer is to grant them a state, then wait for one single attack across that border, and then declare formal war on that state, conquer it, install an occupation govt just like the US did Japan & Germany, conduct denazification (dont' even have to rename it), and after a course of 5-10 years, gradually phase in democratic self-rule, starting locally, with a pacifist constitution like Japan's -- and maybe even a Marshall Plan to get them on their feet just enough to where they can start paying reparations. And a requirement is that their schools must teach their nation's guilt, and they should feel guilty just like the Germans 50 years ago.

Friends,

I have been unable to post until now due to having a sick child today.

This little Presbyterian girl from Mississippi weeps.

Weeps.

Where can we go with our rage?

Mark (#252)

I care about them. These NPR types don't.

Neither do I. I'm not an NPR type, believe me, but I don't care about them. Should I? I used to, but my well of sympathy ran dry a while ago. I'm not obligated to care about people who hate me, who would kill me just because I happen to have been born a Jew.

Go contribute to Magen David Adom to help. These are the first responders who help the injured and bag the dead. I just watched that horrible video Charles linked to and gave $100. Here is their web link at [Link: www.magendavidadom.org...]

Shalom

#118 eldad

Our democracy isn't capable of winning against the Arab culture of suicide and racist hate.

Bullshit.

I really think we must stoop to their level of inhumanity and savagery in order to get through to them. I have always felt...that Israel should reciprocate such acts with barbarism at least equal in its severity.

How long until Israelis send their own suicide bombers into Palestine?

256 Doss

Great response Mr. Doss! To you and everyone else who enjoys telling us how to behave in the face of terrorism I'd like to convey a hearty "Fuck You" from Zion.

Leave us alone. Find yourself another pastime.

#143

I feel your pain, and of course we all want to think well of ourselves. But just look at how the fringe Left has dragged the Dems in their direction. One frontrunning Presidential candidate floated the Bush Knew! slander in relation to 9/11, and the other one is whaling away on Bush Lied! re the Iraq war.

You might say that the dragging has been going on for a century in that political party. Beginning with the segregationists, then the populists (Wizard of Oz, anyone?), the progressives, the New Dealers, the Great Society and finally the New Left, the US finally has a full blown French Revolution party, wholly unamerican.

And if it took a long time two build up one of the two major parties into a foreign entity, you can imagine how long it will take to get their ideology and it's consequences out.

155

Thanks for answering some of my questions, apparently as I was asking them. Astonishing how folks can turn a blind eye to what's in their face. Human nature is strange indeed. Peace at any cost is clearly not peace at all.

Back around the time of the Afghanistan war on the Taliban, I believe, the international antiwar crowd was already up to par.

One thing that struck me when reading about some of the goings-on at these "peace" demonstrations was a case where a demonstrator had a sign that said "Peace In Our Lifetime" or "Peace In Our Time."

I would bet anything that the person who was holding it has no idea about the embarrasing historical meaning of it. How the expression was used by Neville Chamberlain to appease the Nazi's and his reluctant-to-pre-emptively fight English countrymen. Because of reluctance of Western Europe to stand up to the emerging menace, they paid severely for it soon enough.

For all the accusations of US warmongering and neocons, how about giving them credit for trying to avert the larger, global, nuclear war? History will judge us poorly if we don't do the right thing now, and fight pre-emptively against the usual suspect arab nations, before things get out of hand. The sad part is not having the support of those who lack wisdom.

#168

I'm not sure exactly what moment I think I finally ceased being a leftist (as in hanging on to my personal delusion about what that actually meant) and I ended my support for the NDP forever. It happened at some point around the time that Svend Robinson tried to cross over to show his solidarity with that murderer Arafat and I saw the pink papier mache antiwar protest tank for the first time.

To add to your comments --

I wasn't a socialist myself (NDP), but in the couple of elections I've able to vote in since reaching voting age, I did go with the Liberal Party. No more. There is a great amount of posturing on the part of that end of the political spectrum of being independant and not mere USA followers. What I think these fellow Canadians miss is that they aren't being original. Instead of being American, they are becoming European. And I mean that in the continental sense of the word, not British, though sadly, the British are becoming "European" too.

What cemented in my mind more than anything that the so-called liberals and their world view did not represent mine was the aftermath - the backlash - against the US after 9/11. The manner of the desparate resistance against the US - to even strike at the Taliban - helped enlighten me to the real nature of the so-called liberals.

What they are pushing is called Progressivism, which is a different philosophical underpining to the politics and social order of english speaking countried like the US, Australia, Canada and GB. Progressives only interested in pushing their ideology. When a country like the US acts out independently in pre-emptive war against their enemies, it undermines the Progressive movement, their hold on US, and on Progressive institutions like the United Nations. All this Antiwar/Peace stuff is just a movement protecting their turf, and they are doing so at the expense of US security, and the wonderful possibility of Arab democracy and real liberalisation.

Yes, I was sicked with Canadian Member of Paliament Svend Robinson (from the socialist NDP) going to the West Bank and trying to visit the house arrested Arafat, who was stuck in his compound because Israeli tanks were there to keep him in place.

Svend is homosexual, and it's on record. He's not denying it. What I am so dissapointed by from him is the utter disconnect between the reality of his homosexuality and what happens to Palestinian homosexuals. Does he not realise they are not free to be open about it, like he is? Doesn't he know that Arab gays are repressed in their culture? What would Arafat do to any gay Palestinian gays who would be brave enough to demand their civil rights? And yet this idiot Svend Robinson wanted to go see Arafat to show his solidarity. My. Fucking. God. How ignorant. And when you get right down to it, how condescenting and racist on Robinson's part, not to understand how a person like Arafat would feel about homosexuals?

#206

Just because I appear to have more in common with the Democratic Party than with the Republican Party does not make me a Democrat. Ugh. Perish the thought. I guess I am saying that I wish there was a moderate party somewhere in between the extremes because both the Dems and the Repubs take positions I cannot bring myself to ignore

Careful what you wish for.

Here in Canada, we do have such a case at the national level. For many years, there were three major political parties (NDP, Libs, PC). And for about the last 100 years, just one party has been in charge 75% of the time.

Does that help democracy? Sure, the dominant party is more moderate, if you want to call it that. But we have been drifting continuously towards Statism. Not so much Leftism, but Statism.

Some times it's best if you're given two distinct choices to vote for, since they allow for change. If there's just one consensus party, the bureacracy takes charge.

#252

For a long time I have felt that maybe the answer is to grant them a state, then wait for one single attack across that border, and then declare formal war on that state, conquer it, install an occupation govt just like the US did Japan & Germany, conduct denazification (dont' even have to rename it), and after a course of 5-10 years, gradually phase in democratic self-rule, starting locally, with a pacifist constitution like Japan's -- and maybe even a Marshall Plan to get them on their feet just enough to where they can start paying reparations. And a requirement is that their schools must teach their nation's guilt, and they should feel guilty just like the Germans 50 years ago.

That is the single most sane idea for the solution to the ongoing Arab-Jewish war that has been going on for decades. And of couse, such a position is being advocated by NONE of the powers that be.

You have to ask yourself, why kind of catastrophy, what attrocities, will it take before these steps can be taken. For one thing, the nations of Europe must first find themselves in peril once again, before Israel can have the *audacity* to bring such a reasonable and humane end to their own conflict. Because in the interim, any such move will be seen as "imperialistic" (a communist put down on capitalist nations), and the backlash against Israel would be harsh.

For lack of a better expression, certain peoples need help, need certain anti-humanity options taken away from them, before they straighten out. Colonial rule has such a bad reputation, but I think it's safe to say to people with common sense, certain ideas and values need to be transmitted to the death cult people.

#152--Kath f.

The Rabbi Chezi Goldberg killed yesterday was the same Chezi Goldberg who wrote the article you linked to in your comment.

Rabbi Chezi Goldberg was killed yesterday and he was a contributor to Arutz Sheva and worked as a social worker in Jerusalem.

There is an article on the subject available at the Arutz Sheva Website.

zulubaby--
--believe me, I sympathize with what you're saying. The people I had in mind were the babies and toddlers, and those few adults who ARE actively risking their lives to stop the killings. I do think every effort should me made to avoid killing children, and I applaud the IDF because they DO make a heroic effort. But when children do get accidentally killed, I don't see it as any different than when German children were accidentally killed by Allied bombs in WWII. And going beyond that, I have to say, I even reluctantly approve of the bombings of Dresden an Hiroshima, because a lot of those civilians actually WERE very guilty an were part of the war machine. The scripture comes to my mind, about Lot and Abraham and "Lord, for how many honest men wilt thou spare the city?" It's not an easy question. But I refuse to indulge in moral equivalency between the Allies and the Axis, and I likewise refuse to indulge in moral equivalency between Israel and the axis of evil. And OH, how I wish that Pres. Bush would make a new speech saying that the axis of evil includes Saudi Arabia, Syria, Hamas, Hezbollah, and Fatah. I wish the US congress would make an official declaration of war against the Palestinian Authority.

Hi, it's me again.
I thought I read someplace recently that Arafat openly lionized the recent woman bomber, unlike his usual lip-service condemnations. But I can't locate the article in my notes. Does anybody else remember where to find this? Thanks very much.

My mother asked me if I thought she would be safe if she went ahead with her Israel trip, I said yes, and asked if they had their own tour bus. I pointed out that living in Los angeles:

December 26, 2003

After Los Angeles led the nation in homicides in 2002, killings reported so far this year have fallen by nearly a quarter, fulfilling a pledge by Police Chief William J. Bratton to make the city safer.

Although homicide statistics are volatile, the former New York police commissioner has so far largely met his goal since taking over the Los Angeles Police Department 15 months ago: Arrests are up and violent crime is down.

Barring an unusual outburst of violence over the last week of the year, homicides will dip to fewer than 500 for 2003, undercutting last year's count by almost 150 — a 23% reduction and the lowest number since 1999.

Gun violence also was down by a double-digit percentage, according to the mid-December tally released by the LAPD. Reported shootings had fallen by more than 1,200 compared to the same period in 2002. There were 532 fewer shooting victims this year. Other major categories of crime also improved, but the gains were smaller.

Since 29 januari this horrible video was observed by 300 000 people around the world...

I was crying 24 hours and still in tears....

It is very sick to see people do such things to other human beings, I wish both parties will live in peace one day. Just remember Palestenians see this every day in their lifes as well, I hope one day they have true & a just peace in that part of the world.
Younger generation has alot to do when it comes down to making friends and helping bridge gaps between people.

I saw this video and it is extremly horrifying. Why dont the Israeli Government go for a war against these maniacs and annexe all the land which belongs to only Israelis (Jews) including WestBank and Gaza and throw these Parasites out of the country.

Let us stay to stand firm behind Israel to support Eretz Israel, and what G-d has promised. Read the prophet Amos about what will happen to Gaza an the Philistines of today.
Love from Holland.

The video is horrifying enough. The accompanying audio is chilling also. As the police, searching the bus, climb over human remains, one of them reports (in Hebrew), "no, no (identifiable) faces yet." (lo, ben a-tayim lo partzufim)

This was a bus that runs between two hospitals.

Dreadful news even more horrific to see the video. I am saddened almost beyond words. It is a graphic illustration of the destructive power of hatred. What I will give in response is 100% of what I am able to do. It may seem puny in comparison to the need but it is all I have to give and I do it to resist evil in all its filth and depravity. May God bless all who have been so scarred by this wickedness