Texas School Board to Vote on Anti-Evolution Curriculum

Science • Views: 5,076

This Wednesday, March 25, the Texas State Board of Education will hold three days of meetings leading to a final vote on a new science curriculum designed by the anti-evolution propagandists at the Discovery Institute, in league with far-right fundamentalists.

The Wall Street Journal’s Stephanie Simon has a report on the controversy, with some choice quotes from the young earth creationist board chairman appointed by Republican Governor Rick Perry: Texas School Board Set to Vote on Challenge to Evolution.

Texas school board chairman Don McLeroy also sees the curriculum as a landmark — but a positive one.

Dr. McLeroy believes that God created the earth less than 10,000 years ago. If the new curriculum passes, he says he will insist that high-school biology textbooks point out specific aspects of the fossil record that, in his view, undermine the theory that all life on Earth is descended from primitive scraps of genetic material that first emerged in the primordial muck about 3.9 billion years ago.

He also wants the texts to make the case that individual cells are far too complex to have evolved by chance mutation and natural selection, an argument popular with those who believe an intelligent designer created the universe.

The textbooks will “have to say that there’s a problem with evolution — because there is,” said Dr. McLeroy, a dentist. “We need to be honest with the kids.”

For McLeroy to set himself up as a voice of honesty is a stunning act of hypocrisy; this is the man who read into the record a long list of distorted, out of context, and completely fraudulent anti-evolution quotes.

Simon’s WSJ article correctly identifies the true goal of this horrible initiative:

The proposed curriculum change would prompt teachers to raise doubts that all life on Earth is descended from common ancestry. Texas is such a huge textbook market that many publishers write to the state’s standards, then market those books nationwide.

It’s nice to see, however, that not all Texas Republicans are in favor of brainwashing children with pseudo-science—even though they’re coming under fire from hostile creationist groups and their own party:

All members of the board have come under enormous pressure in recent months, especially three Republicans who support teaching evolution without references to “weaknesses.” The state Republican Party passed a resolution urging the three to back Dr. McLeroy’s preferred curriculum. A conservative activist group put out a news release suggesting all three were in the pocket of “militant Darwinists.”

One of the three, former social-studies teacher Pat Hardy, said she has received thousands of impassioned calls and emails.

Ms. Hardy says she intends to stand firm for evolution, but she has learned not to predict what her colleagues might do. Curriculum standards critical of evolution won preliminary approval in January, but several board members said later that they hadn’t understood the issues.

“Anything can happen,” Ms. Hardy said.

Jump to bottom

623 comments
1 godfrey  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:25:35pm

10,000 years is a nice round number. Comfy-like. God too, nice and small.

2 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:27:22pm

10,000 years, huh? Whence cometh that figure?

Why, a distiguished bishop from a century & a half ago proved thru thorough biblical research that the earth could be no more than four thousand years old.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

3 Kragar  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:27:23pm

Cthulhu will be pleased that they will finally be teaching about him in class

4 Dianna  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:27:30pm

I have never met a militant Darwinist.

5 clemycali  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:27:39pm

I keep on wondering what is happening with the GOP in Texas and why do they urge the support for this insanity ?

6 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:27:52pm

does anyone in Texas even read books?

/ducks

7 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:28:42pm

re: #4 Dianna

I have never met a militant Darwinist.

besides Charles, you mean?

/white smoke

8 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:28:46pm

re: #6 redc1c4

does anyone in Texas even read books?

/ducks

Certainly no one elected to the School Board

/any room in your foxhole?

9 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:29:47pm

re: #1 godfrey

10,000 years is a nice round number. Comfy-like. God too, nice and small.

I like your answer. Something a small mind can hold.

10 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:29:55pm

re: #8 unreconstructed rebel

Certainly no one elected to the School Board

/any room in your foxhole?

it’s bunker complex…. come on in. %-)

11 jimc  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:30:42pm

Forget creationism and evolution, let’s teach nihilism!

“No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there’s nothing to be afraid of. “

12 Dianna  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:31:00pm

re: #7 redc1c4

besides Charles, you mean?

/white smoke

Aside from teasing - and I thought that was funny and hope Charles would, too - I don’t consider Charles militant.

Just rational, and irritated by lack of rationality.

13 godfrey  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:31:04pm

People with “Oh, evolve!” bumperstickers are still annoying, though.

14 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:31:23pm
The textbooks will “have to say that there’s a problem with evolution — because there is,” said Dr. McLeroy, a dentist. “We need to be honest with the kids.”

A problem? There’s no problem at all with evolution and an old Earth beyond that which you have, Mr. McLeory. And yes, the use of “Mr.”, not “Dr.” is intentional, twit.

15 Dianna  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:31:41pm

re: #13 godfrey

People with “Oh, evolve!” bumperstickers are still annoying, though.

I can’t disagree with that. I haven’t seen one, though.

16 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:31:44pm

Work calls. Keep the fires burning.

17 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:32:16pm

re: #16 unreconstructed rebel

Work calls. Keep the fires burning.

Oh, I think the fires are just starting. What’s the over/under on the first meltdown this thread?

18 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:32:42pm
The textbooks will “have to say that there’s a problem with evolution — because there is,” said Dr. McLeroy, a dentist. “We need to be honest with the kids.”

There are folks being honest with the kids, Dr. McLeroy. They’re called scientists and science teachers.

19 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:32:59pm

Young-earth creationists, as honest as a Chicago Democrat.

20 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:33:36pm

re: #8 unreconstructed rebel

Certainly no one elected to the School Board

/any room in your foxhole?

President Bush read My Pet Goat /make room!

21 godfrey  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:35:06pm

The only fossils in Texas are from Homo creationis.

22 KenJen  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:35:35pm

“We need to be honest with the kids” says Dr McLeroy. Yeah right. Like telling them about the Tooth Fairy.

23 Russkilitlover  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:36:12pm
The state Republican Party passed a resolution urging the three to back Dr. McLeroy’s preferred curriculum

I think I’ve finally had it with the Republican Party. They could write their own textbook called “How to Destroy Core Principles and Glom Onto Hooey.”

24 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:36:16pm

re: #12 Dianna

Aside from teasing - and I thought that was funny and hope Charles would, too - I don’t consider Charles militant.

Just rational, and irritated by lack of rationality.

it was supposed to be funny: a backwards poke at the various small minded twits who have accused him of such things, hence the obligatory “white smoke”

25 jcm  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:36:59pm

Called back into the court.

26 Dianna  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:37:34pm

re: #24 redc1c4

it was supposed to be funny: a backwards poke at the various small minded twits who have accused him of such things, hence the obligatory “white smoke”

You and I get that, I’m sure. I’ve gotten chary of assuming small-minded twits won’t try to stir trouble.

Literal-mindedness can be a menace.

27 Salamantis  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:37:41pm

Wonder when Hoover is gonna get around to downdinging this thread?

28 KansasMom  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:37:51pm

re: #22 KenJen

“We need to be honest with the kids” says Dr McLeroy. Yeah right. Like telling them about the Tooth Fairy.

McLeroy must be a hoot at Christmas.

29 Dianna  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:38:05pm

re: #27 Salamantis

Wonder when Hoover is gonna get around to downdinging this thread?

Is that one of the phantoms?

30 Salamantis  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:38:36pm

re: #29 Dianna

Is that one of the phantoms?

Yep. One of our creationist stealth downdingers.

31 funky chicken  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:39:13pm
The state Republican Party passed a resolution urging the three to back Dr. McLeroy’s preferred curriculum.

Yeah, just a fringe element to the GOP, not worth discussing, etc.

right?

32 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:39:15pm

re: #30 Salamantis

Yep. One of our creationist stealth downdingers.

Joy. We’ll have to get him to come out and play.

33 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:39:39pm
34 Salamantis  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:39:49pm

re: #32 Honorary Yooper

Joy. We’ll have to get him to come out and play.

Hoovie don’t play this.

35 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:40:26pm

re: #34 Salamantis

Hoovie don’t play this.

Then Hoovie should be given a swift kick in the ass by Stinky.

36 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:41:04pm

re: #6 redc1c4

does anyone in Texas even read books?

/ducks

Both Testaments. I just wish they would keep them out of the textbooks unless they are in a religious school or home schooling.

37 funky chicken  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:41:15pm

re: #23 Russkilitlover

How To Destroy a National Majority Party in 20 Years

38 Ben Hur  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:41:38pm
The textbooks will “have to say that there’s a problem with evolution — because there is,” said Dr. McLeroy, a dentist. “We need to be honest with the kids.”

For some reason this strikes me the same way as when they say, President Assad, a Western trained opthamologist……Or Achmed Tibi, a gynecologist……

39 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:41:38pm

re: #18 scottishbuzzsaw

There are folks being honest with the kids, Dr. McLeroy. They’re called scientists and science teachers.

Well said!

Hiya, {scotti}!

40 Tamron  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:42:31pm

re: #33 buzzsawmonkey

I’m tired of young earth creationists. I want some middle-aged earth creationists for a change.


Yeah, whatever happened to OlderThanDirt, anyway?
.

41 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:42:46pm

re: #39 yma o hyd

Well said!

Hiya, {scotti}!

Hi there, {yma}! Good to see you!

42 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:43:10pm

re: #40 Tamron

Yeah, whatever happened to OlderThanDirt, anyway?
.

As the boomers age that phrase is now un-pc
/

43 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:43:25pm
44 Ben Hur  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:43:33pm

re: #1 godfrey

10,000 years is a nice round number. Comfy-like. God too, nice and small.

Impossible.

Why?

Because Helen Thomas is 10,001 years old.

45 jimc  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:43:54pm

re: #30 Salamantis

“downdingers” - those filthy buggers, going around rogering people without there knowledge…

46 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:43:58pm

re: #44 Ben Hur

Impossible.

Why?

Because Helen Thomas is 10,001 years old.

She was created old.
//

47 Tamron  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:44:02pm

re: #42 DaddyG

As the boomers age that phrase is now un-pc
/


—Not a phrase, it’s an LGF member!
.

48 Salamantis  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:45:04pm

re: #45 jimc

“downdingers” - those filthy buggers, going around rogering people without there knowledge…

Yep. If they’re willing to downding, they should be willing to debate.

49 godfrey  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:45:20pm

Buzz!

I’m looking for old 78’s of songs by Willard Robison.

50 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:45:50pm

re: #47 Tamron

—Not a phrase, it’s an LGF member!
.


Oops. I really shouldn’t let real life distract me from studying LGF more. It just leads to embarassing Obamaisms gaffes.

51 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:46:08pm

re: #41 scottishbuzzsaw

Hi there, {yma}! Good to see you!

The Monday after a baaad weekend - was ahteful to see in the papers how they had to clean our fair city of all that green stuff the Oirish brought … and they drank our pubs dry as well, tsk tsk tsk …

52 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:46:20pm
53 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:46:44pm
The textbooks will “have to say that there’s a problem with evolution — because there is,” said Dr. McLeroy, a dentist.

The only problem with evolution is he doesn’t like it.

54 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:46:56pm
55 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:47:05pm

re: #48 Salamantis

Yep. If they’re willing to downding, they should be willing to debate.

Feel free to upding with debating.

56 funky chicken  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:47:22pm

re: #5 clemycali

I keep on wondering what is happening with the GOP in Texas and why do they urge the support for this insanity ?

Well, since I watched something very similar happen in Kansas 20 years ago, let me give you my best hypothesis. The creationists made a major effort, starting at the smallest, most seemingly inconsequential levels, to take over the party. They showed up in force at every single meeting, worked like crazy at every GOP function, etc. Gradually, over a decade or more, they took over pretty much every facet of the state GOP. It happened quicker in KS because KS is a smaller state.

And now KS has a democrat governor, and resurgent democrat party.

57 KenJen  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:47:32pm

re: #49 godfrey

Buzz!

I’m looking for old 78’s of songs by Willard Robison.

Have you tried your local Goodwill? Mine has shelves full of old records. Fun to look thru.

58 Gella  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:47:49pm

i have one word for them = morons

59 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:47:54pm
60 godfrey  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:48:15pm

re: #52 buzzsawmonkey

He wrote one about “religion in rhythm,” and another one (or the same one?) about “truthful Parson Brown.” Genius.

61 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:48:15pm

re: #55 EmmmieG

Feel free to upding with without debating.

Sorry.

62 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:48:31pm

re: #56 funky chicken

Well, since I watched something very similar happen in Kansas 20 years ago, let me give you my best hypothesis. The creationists made a major effort, starting at the smallest, most seemingly inconsequential levels, to take over the party. They showed up in force at every single meeting, worked like crazy at every GOP function, etc. Gradually, over a decade or more, they took over pretty much every facet of the state GOP. It happened quicker in KS because KS is a smaller state.

And now KS has a democrat governor, and resurgent democrat party.

Cripes - and, do you think, will the GOP in other states learn from that experience?

63 Russkilitlover  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:48:41pm

re: #59 MandyManners

Do you live in Texas?

Worse. California.

64 godfrey  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:48:46pm

re: #54 buzzsawmonkey

I’m an early jazz nut.

65 Gus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:48:48pm
The state Republican Party passed a resolution urging the three to back Dr. McLeroy’s preferred curriculum. A conservative activist group put out a news release suggesting all three were in the pocket of militant Darwinists.

Frustrated and angered with the current direction the country is going under Democratic leadership this news remind me of my concurrent frustration and anger with the Republican Party.

McLeroy’s endorsement is not only riddled with holes but professional incompetence regarding the topic of biological evolution. His training is as a dentist and his professional opinion should be limited to that. McLeroy’s endorsement of the bizzare conspiracy laced writing of Robert Bowie Johnson, Jr., writing on the matter only add to the circus like atmosphere of the Texas Board of Education as led by McLeroy.

Let me add that the endorsement by the Texas Republican Party of this curriculum is a default endorsement of the aforementioned Mr. Johnson and his paranoid pablum: “Sowing Atheism: The National Academy of Sciences’ Sinister Scheme to Teach Our Children They’re Descended from Reptiles”

Sinister indeed.

66 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:49:32pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cthulhu will be pleased that they will finally be teaching about him in class

It’s for the children.

/yum

67 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:49:37pm
68 Dianna  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:49:46pm

re: #61 EmmmieG

Sometimes it’s a time thing - or I’m so far behind, I can’t possibly catch up. Or, simply, it was well-said, and I don’t see any reason to waste everyone’s time with saying that.

69 godfrey  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:50:02pm

re: #57 KenJen

I’ll need to do that next time I’m in Chicago. Fossil-hunting, I guess.

/trying to stay on

70 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:50:03pm

re: #56 funky chicken

Well, since I watched something very similar happen in Kansas 20 years ago, let me give you my best hypothesis. The creationists made a major effort, starting at the smallest, most seemingly inconsequential levels, to take over the party. They showed up in force at every single meeting, worked like crazy at every GOP function, etc. Gradually, over a decade or more, they took over pretty much every facet of the state GOP. It happened quicker in KS because KS is a smaller state.

And now KS has a democrat governor, and resurgent democrat party.

That’s why, I hate to say, we need to dump them before they sink us. When you have a millstone around your neck, you do not try to swim with it.

71 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:50:09pm

re: #61 EmmmieG

Sorry.

The fiirst version holds more promise for some troll burnings. Just thought I’d share.

/

72 Dianna  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:50:16pm

re: #63 Russkilitlover

Worse. California.

Where the social conservatives seem determined to keep us in the minority.

73 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:50:27pm
74 godfrey  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:50:55pm

re: #67 buzzsawmonkey

You the man. No rush.

75 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:51:08pm

re: #51 yma o hyd

The Monday after a baaad weekend - was ahteful to see in the papers how they had to clean our fair city of all that green stuff the Oirish brought … and they drank our pubs dry as well, tsk tsk tsk …

Let me see if I understand you correctly…the Irish were in Wales and brought lots of green beer? Was it a football game?

76 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:51:10pm

re: #62 yma o hyd

Cripes - and, do you think, will the GOP in other states learn from that experience?

They haven’t learned, and they won’t learn unless it’s the hard way, because they’re in the throws of trying the same thing.

77 godfrey  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:51:23pm

re: #73 buzzsawmonkey

Devoté, if we’re being all technical.

78 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:51:57pm

re: #72 Dianna

Where the social conservatives seem determined to keep us in the minority.

It’s easier to play martyr that way.

79 godfrey  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:52:23pm

I’ve seen people both in the throws of Mardi Gras and in the throes of Mardi Gras, and I have to say, the former make less noise.

80 Salamantis  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:52:37pm

The most influential music America ever produced was recorded in 1936, by Robert Johnson.

81 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:52:39pm

I hope they’ll be sure to cover the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

82 Salamantis  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:53:11pm

re: #81 Kosh’s Shadow

I hope they’ll be sure to cover the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

And the Invisible Pink Unicorn.

83 Dianna  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:53:20pm

re: #78 Honorary Yooper

It’s easier to play martyr that way.

“What?! Do I whiff the odor of burning martyr?”

84 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:53:24pm

re: #73 buzzsawmonkey

Devotee, please.

The greatest popular music America ever produced was done between 1925 and 1935.

conveniently excluding the BananaRama era I see…

85 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:53:46pm
86 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:53:50pm

re: #81 Kosh’s Shadow

I hope they’ll be sure to cover the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

If they want to teach their origin story as scientific fact, then by all means the FSM should be included in the curriculum as well.

That, and Last Thursdayism.

87 Dianna  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:53:54pm

Excuse me, I need to restart my computer.

88 gmsc  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:53:55pm

Time for my standard list of favorite ID/Creationist argument links:

reDiscovery Institute (Parody site)

The Holy Book for Turtles-all-the-way-downism (Thanks, jcm!)

Using creationist/ID arguments against them:
Why We Believe in a Designer!
Organisms that Look Designed
Oolon Colluphid’s Guide to Creation

Talk.Origins archive

Need To Know: Charles Darwin (5 Minute documentary on Charles Darwin)

People involved in spreading Darwin’s discoveries as a philosophy, whom Ben Stein mysteriously neglects to mention:
Ernst Haeckel
William Sumner
Vladmir Ulyanov

Is There An Artifical God? (essay by Douglas Adams)

Get A-Life (essay on using artificial life to study evolution)

Evolution IS a Blind Watchmaker (video about a-life)

Documentaries:
The Day The Universe Changed - “Fit To Rule” (Episode 8)

More evolution documentaries can be found here, including Evolution, Evolve, Human Evolution, Journey of Man, Origins and Why do people laugh at creationists?.

89 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:54:00pm

re: #26 Dianna

You and I get that, I’m sure. I’ve gotten chary of assuming small-minded twits won’t try to stir trouble.

Literal-mindedness can be a menace.

well, as long as Stinky gets it, its cool.

otherwise, i won’t feel a thing. %-)

90 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:54:52pm

Ok, back for a quick breather before facing rush hour.

Anybody flush anything yet?

91 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:55:29pm

re: #90 unreconstructed rebel

Ok, back for a quick breather before facing rush hour.

Anybody flush anything yet?

No, no trolls yet. We’ll see some before the thread is out.

92 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:55:33pm

re: #80 Salamantis

The most influential music America ever produced was recorded in 1936, by Robert Johnson.

I would say the pick up sessions in Congo Square in the late 19th century

93 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:55:42pm
94 Ben Hur  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:56:53pm

Rapture.

95 KansasMom  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:57:13pm

re: #88 gmsc

Good list, thanks. I’ll have to look at some of those links tonight at home.

96 godfrey  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:57:19pm

re: #85 buzzsawmonkey

Have you heard Robert Crumb’s band? They’re pretty good playing musette with banjos, saws, and I think there’s a goat bladder in there somewhere.

Music from way back. Not 10,000 years, but enough to make it interesting.

97 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:57:25pm

re: #94 Ben Hur

Rapture.

Left behind. Again.

98 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:57:39pm

re: #88 gmsc

Time for my standard list of favorite ID/Creationist argument links:

reDiscovery Institute (Parody site)

The Holy Book for Turtles-all-the-way-downism (Thanks, jcm!)

Using creationist/ID arguments against them:
Why We Believe in a Designer!
Organisms that Look Designed
Oolon Colluphid’s Guide to Creation

Talk.Origins archive

Need To Know: Charles Darwin (5 Minute documentary on Charles Darwin)

People involved in spreading Darwin’s discoveries as a philosophy, whom Ben Stein mysteriously neglects to mention:
Ernst Haeckel
William Sumner
Vladmir Ulyanov

Is There An Artifical God? (essay by Douglas Adams)

Get A-Life (essay on using artificial life to study evolution)

Evolution IS a Blind Watchmaker (video about a-life)

Documentaries:
The Day The Universe Changed - “Fit To Rule” (Episode 8)

More evolution documentaries can be found here, including Evolution, Evolve, Human Evolution, Journey of Man, Origins and Why do people laugh at creationists?.

Oh, I believe in a Designer. Just one that’s way too patient to do a shitty job in a short 10,000 years.

99 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:57:41pm
100 gmsc  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:57:58pm

re: #95 KansasMom

Good list, thanks. I’ll have to look at some of those links tonight at home.

You’re welcome. Many of those TV documentaries are especially eye-opening.

101 doppelganglander  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:58:25pm

IMO, the Texas GOP has cynically (and foolishly) embraced creationism to gain votes. It’s the ultimate way to appear more Christian than thou. It doesn’t seem to dawn on them that this causes them to lose votes among the better-educated — you know, the ones who are probably successful in life and have money to donate.

102 godfrey  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:58:58pm

/out, and no meltdown, dang I miss all the fun

103 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 1:59:52pm

re: #94 Ben Hur

Rapture.

“‘Cause the man from Mars stopped eatin’ cars and eatin’ bars
And now he only eats guitars, get up!”

104 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:00:00pm

re: #102 godfrey

/out, and no meltdown, dang I miss all the fun

We’ll save you leftovers godfrey…

105 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:00:09pm
106 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:00:54pm
107 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:00:59pm

re: #75 scottishbuzzsaw

Let me see if I understand you correctly…the Irish were in Wales and brought lots of green beer? Was it a football game?

Rugby.
They won the Grand Slam for the first time in 61 years.
Unfortunately they had to beat us - which they did, by miserly two points!
Peope were trhowing the sports section of the Sunday papers into the wastepaper bins, unread, as soon as they came out of the newsagents.
We were so cross!
The only consolation was seeing all those Irish nursing terrific hangovers - they were properly wasted. Pity there was no storm, for the journey home …

108 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:01:25pm
109 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:02:05pm

re: #105 buzzsawmonkey

Robert Johnson beats out Jelly Roll Morton, Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong? Sidney Bechet, Fletcher Henderson, Red Nichols, Bix Biederbecke, Benny Goodman, Fats Waller?

I don’t think so—no matter how many rock-and-rollistas he inspired.

actually, yes he does.

110 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:02:25pm

Nothing to do but go sit in traffic.

/sigh

111 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:02:39pm
112 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:02:50pm

re: #101 doppelganglander

IMO, the Texas GOP has cynically (and foolishly) embraced creationism to gain votes. It’s the ultimate way to appear more Christian than thou. It doesn’t seem to dawn on them that this causes them to lose votes among the better-educated — you know, the ones who are probably successful in life and have money to donate.

It’s not just Texas. This is a nationwide phenomenon. There are a number of states that are either pushing for similar legislation, or where the state GOP’s party platform calls for such legislation. And it’s not confined to the south- it’s as middle America as Iowa and Minnesota.

113 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:03:02pm

re: #106 buzzsawmonkey

The Cheap Suit Serenaders? Aren’t they a little on the bluegrassy side?

I think so…

114 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:03:50pm

re: #107 yma o hyd

Just two points?! Oh, yma, you have my sympathy. Ouch.

115 Mirage  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:03:57pm

re: #97 scottishbuzzsaw

Left behind. Again.

Calgon take me away?

116 Salamantis  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:04:14pm

Who likes Lightnin’ Hopkins and Gatemouth Brown?

117 doppelganglander  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:04:44pm

re: #112 Sharmuta

It’s not just Texas. This is a nationwide phenomenon. There are a number of states that are either pushing for similar legislation, or where the state GOP’s party platform calls for such legislation. And it’s not confined to the south- it’s as middle America as Iowa and Minnesota.

Yep. I think Georgia learned its lesson when Cobb County got the pants sued off it for requiring stickers on all the biology books that stated evolution is only a theory, blah blah etc. It was a very expensive lesson, too.

118 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:04:53pm

re: #105 buzzsawmonkey

Robert Johnson beats out Jelly Roll Morton, Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong? Sidney Bechet, Fletcher Henderson, Red Nichols, Bix Biederbecke, Benny Goodman, Fats Waller?

I don’t think so—no matter how many rock-and-rollistas he inspired.


Jazz:
John Coltrain, Miles Davis, George Benson (OK not him..He always seemed to mail it in every othe Album )
Blues: BB King, Robert Johnson, Otis Rush
Rock: Hendricks, Clapton, Vaughn
Song Writer: Barry Manilow.. (OK..not him either)
/

119 funky chicken  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:04:57pm

re: #88 gmsc

hadn’t ever seen the re-Discovery Institute site…thanks

120 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:04:57pm

re: #76 Sharmuta

They haven’t learned, and they won’t learn unless it’s the hard way, because they’re in the throws of trying the same thing.

What I don’t get - if the creationists are capable of organising so efficiently, why should it be beyond the capabilities of non-creationists to also organise?
Tea Parties are good to get to know others of the same opinion, and I’m sure they have their place to attract normally apoltical people - but its not organising.
If you want to take the GOP back - you’ve got to organise from the bottom up. Its tedious, its time-consuming, but if nobody can’t be bothered, you’ll end up with creationists running against moonbats.

121 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:06:29pm
122 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:06:41pm

re: #120 yma o hyd

What I don’t get - if the creationists are capable of organising so efficiently, why should it be beyond the capabilities of non-creationists to also organise?

Because it’s tedious, it’s time-consuming, and nobody can be bothered.

Tea Parties are good to get to know others of the same opinion, and I’m sure they have their place to attract normally apoltical people - but its not organising.
If you want to take the GOP back - you’ve got to organise from the bottom up. Its tedious, its time-consuming, but if nobody can’t be bothered, you’ll end up with creationists running against moonbats.

Crap.

123 gmsc  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:06:45pm

re: #119 funky chicken

hadn’t ever seen the re-Discovery Institute site…thanks

That’s a favorite of mine. That’s why it ranks as the first link in that list.
:)

124 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:07:17pm
A conservative activist group…

Isn’t that a bit like an organized anarchist group?
/

125 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:07:26pm

Johnson is the father of American blues, a distinctly unique American invention…and when you consider the anthology into R/B, soul, and R/R and all of it’s many gendres I’d say Robert Johson is far more influential

126 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:08:16pm

re: #114 scottishbuzzsaw

Just two points?! Oh, yma, you have my sympathy. Ouch.

Thanks.
Wales is still hurting.
We’re not even calling for heads to roll …. yet!

127 iLikeCandy  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:08:44pm
he will insist that high-school biology textbooks point out specific aspects of the fossil record that, in his view, undermine the theory that all life on Earth is descended from primitive scraps of genetic material

If this isn’t czarist, undemocratic social engineering, what is?

128 Salamantis  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:08:49pm

I went to a Darwin party
They all knew my name
But without Jerry Coyne attendin’
It didn’t seem the same

But it’s all right now
I learned my science well
Yaknow ya can’t please creationists
So be honest with yaself.

129 Dianna  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:09:00pm

re: #124 Slumbering Behemoth

Isn’t that a bit like an organized anarchist group?
/

On some days, yes. Today, for instance.

130 funky chicken  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:09:29pm

re: #112 Sharmuta

It’s not just Texas. This is a nationwide phenomenon. There are a number of states that are either pushing for similar legislation, or where the state GOP’s party platform calls for such legislation. And it’s not confined to the south- it’s as middle America as Iowa and Minnesota.

Yep, and it’s because they took over state parties, top to bottom. That’s why it will be extremely difficult to dislodge them. More difficult than dislodging the socialists and Code Pinkos from control of the democrat party? Dunno—and that’s the $64,000 question.

131 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:09:42pm

re: #6 redc1c4

does anyone in Texas even read books?

/ducks

No, we’re ALL this one guy.

That’s why the state is so fuckin’ wide open.

132 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:10:17pm
133 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:11:23pm

re: #121 buzzsawmonkey

On just what grounds? Johnson was a good guitar player, but there were a lot of them way back when. And he was a solo act, which is all well and good, but it doesn’t make him “the greatest” anything.

Me for the guys who could write as well as play—and who could play with a group as well as by themselves. The hyping of Robert Johnson is just another brand name, as far as I can see—and yes, I’ve heard a bunch of his sides.

I disagree…in fact he was not that great of a player but he invented a whole new way to play a guitar which gave birth to the Delta Blues…he preceded all the other greats who were influenced by him alone…and everyone knows well where that whole scene led to….BananaRama!

134 MJBrutus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:11:31pm

I am bothered by the reference to these kooks as “far right.” They are not on the right. That is, they are not conservative. Conservatism is about allegiance to our Constitution. These people are not. They’re not “far right” they’re simply “far out.”

135 Mike in Georgia  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:11:32pm

re: #132 buzzsawmonkey

Add Mississippi John Hurt to that list.

136 Truck Monkey  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:12:01pm

re: #118 HoosierHoops

Jazz:
John Coltrain, Miles Davis, George Benson (OK not him..He always seemed to mail it in every othe Album )
Blues: BB King, Robert Johnson, Otis Rush
Rock: Hendricks, Clapton, Vaughn
Song Writer: Barry Manilow.. (OK..not him either)
/


Thelonious Monk. All around.

137 doppelganglander  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:12:35pm

re: #130 funky chicken

Yep, and it’s because they took over state parties, top to bottom. That’s why it will be extremely difficult to dislodge them. More difficult than dislodging the socialists and Code Pinkos from control of the democrat party? Dunno—and that’s the $64,000 question.

And that’s why I think the time may be ripe for a third party.

138 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:12:45pm
139 Salamantis  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:12:46pm

re: #136 Truck Monkey

Thelonious Monk. All around.

I can’t believe that Charlie Parker wasn’t included.

140 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:12:52pm

re: #130 funky chicken

Yep, and it’s because they took over state parties, top to bottom. That’s why it will be extremely difficult to dislodge them. More difficult than dislodging the socialists and Code Pinkos from control of the democrat party? Dunno—and that’s the $64,000 question.

It doesn’t help when the Disco Institute intentionally spreads their distorting propaganda, and confuses otherwise science friendly republicans or moderates to their side by making them think ID is a happy compromise. I’ve even had pro-evolutionists tell their creationist family members to look into ID, to which I had to set the record straight that they did nothing but send their family right back into the arms of the creationists.

141 MJBrutus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:13:04pm

re: #136 Truck Monkey

Thelonious Monk. All around.

And his brother Felonious who tried to steal all of TM’s roylties!

142 turn  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:13:29pm

re: #81 Kosh’s Shadow

I hope they’ll be sure to cover the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I didn’t know about that blog, did you see that tattoo post? Wow you got to be seriously involved with FSM to get a friggin tattoo like that.

143 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:13:40pm
144 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:13:49pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cthulhu will be pleased that they will finally be teaching about him in class

Yesssss. But it won’t do any good unless my minions can infiltrate the language classes as well.

145 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:13:56pm

re: #142 turn

I didn’t know about that blog, did you see that tattoo post? Wow you got to be seriously involved with FSM to get a friggin tattoo like that.

Some people’s issues have tendencies.

/

146 Ben Hur  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:14:28pm
147 rawmuse  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:14:43pm

re: #128 Salamantis

Showing yer age with that one, pal ;)

148 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:14:45pm
149 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:14:51pm

re: #137 doppelganglander

And that’s why I think the time may be ripe for a third party.

It’s always been conventional wisdom that a third party doesn’t stand a chance. But the way things are now, it is an attractive idea.

150 iLikeCandy  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:14:54pm

re: #72 Dianna

Where the social conservatives seem determined to keep us in the minority.

Have you seen the up-and-coming gubernatorial candidates? Steve Poizner and Meg Whitman? Pro-choice conservatives thank god.

151 alegrias  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:15:12pm

re: #137 doppelganglander

And that’s why I think the time may be ripe for a third party.

* * * *
Been there, done that. Those third parties turned out to be real freak shows.

Our country does better than most with this bi-cameral group which as everyone knows has plenty of shades of Republican and Democrat, and grades from squishy to solid as a rock.

152 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:15:38pm

re: #134 MJBrutus

I am bothered by the reference to these kooks as “far right.” They are not on the right. That is, they are not conservative. Conservatism is about allegiance to our Constitution. These people are not. They’re not “far right” they’re simply “far out.”

I get your point, and I agree that there’s nothing conservative about creationism, but unfortunately the fact is that this madness comes almost exclusively from the right wing.

153 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:15:59pm

re: #142 turn

I didn’t know about that blog, did you see that tattoo post? Wow you got to be seriously involved with FSM to get a friggin tattoo like that.

I haven’t read it recently, and yes, a tattoo is taking things too far.
Cue short guy pointing up -
“Da Flying Spaghetti Monster, Boss, Da Flying Spaghetti Monster!”

154 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:16:18pm

re: #132 buzzsawmonkey

“The father of American blues?”

Crap.

Blues were being recorded from the late ‘teens; Bessie Smith recorded “Downhearted Blues”—written by Alberta Hunter—in 1923. Son House and a lot of other Delta blues guitar players were performing and recording long before Johnson came on the scene.

Johnson was good—but when I hear someone say that Johnson started something, I know they know nothing whatsoever about American music history.

Sorry.

Son House is another even older than Johnson, as you know,…but it was Johnsons unique slide style that made him famous and influenced so many others…I’m not saying he was the most influential musician ever just more so than the others you originally mentioned

155 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:16:35pm

re: #149 scottishbuzzsaw

It’s always been conventional wisdom that a third party doesn’t stand a chance. But the way things are now, it is an attractive idea.

Successful third parties are difficult to establish, but I wonder if part of the reason we hear they’re not a viable option is so we remain good little hostages. The time is ripe. The GOP better figure it out quickly, or one just might be around the corner.

156 Truck Monkey  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:16:36pm

re: #146 Ben Hur

John 3:16 — 86’d from Final 4

Sad. I remember when I was a boy that at all the major sporting events there was the rainbow wig guy with the John 3:16 sign. He was everywhere in the 70’s. I think it was the same guy too. Does anyone know what happened to him?

157 doppelganglander  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:16:39pm

OT: TOTUS is in big trouble now!

You may read about President Obama’s speech today on green energy, plugging a company called Orion Energy. Standing next to Orion’s CEO, he praised the company for its groundbreaking work on consumer energy efficiency. Unfortunately, something went awry despite the teleprompter’s best efforts:

All terrific press for Orion, except that Obama kept pronouncing the company’s name wrong, calling it OAR-ee-on.

158 iLikeCandy  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:16:50pm

re: #137 doppelganglander

And that’s why I think the time may be ripe for a third party.

I think we could save the two-party system with the thing I want: term limits.

159 Salamantis  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:17:39pm

re: #148 buzzsawmonkey

What, prior to him people used their feet?

No, but prior to him guitarists didn’t play rhythm and lead in the same song.

160 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:17:41pm

re: #157 doppelganglander

OT: TOTUS is in big trouble now!

John Kerry types in all the pronunciation tips.

161 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:17:42pm

re: #143 buzzsawmonkey

Not only am I not buying it, I’m not even renting it.

it’s free!…Johnson was more popular and more influential than Son House

162 turn  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:17:42pm

re: #145 OldLineTexan

Some people’s issues have tendencies.

/

Ok, my issue is I didn’t understand that OLT. At any rate even though I have issues with ID I’d never get a anti-ID tattoo that spread completely across my back. That’s a little overboard.

163 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:17:51pm

re: #157 doppelganglander

Is that a joke? He doesn’t know how to pronounce “Orion”?!

164 Mirage  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:17:54pm

re: #152 Charles

I get your point, and I agree that there’s nothing conservative about creationism, but unfortunately the fact is that this madness comes almost exclusively from the right wing.

The left wing have kooks of a different color. The kookiness is still there, just focused on a different topic than the right wing kooks. Suffice it is to say, both right and left have their fair share of nut jobs.

165 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:18:06pm
166 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:18:24pm

re: #164 Mirage

The left wing have kooks of a different color. The kookiness is still there, just focused on a different topic than the right wing kooks. Suffice it is to say, both right and left have their fair share of nut jobs.

But the left’s nut jobs aren’t keeping them out of power. Ours are.

167 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:19:02pm

re: #146 Ben Hur

John 3:16 — 86’d from Final 4

LOL
from the post:
FYI — Siena happens to be a private Catholic school. Apparently Jesus isn’t allowed to attend away games.

We’ll make a deal with them..When we get marching bands, Cheerleaders and 6 dollar beers in Mass then you can come a an NCAA games..
/not really..But I thought it funny they would take a sign from a fan…

168 MJBrutus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:19:03pm

re: #157 doppelganglander

OT: TOTUS is in big trouble now!

Hilarious! The boy genius in chief who never heard of Orion.

169 jjmckay1216  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:19:03pm

re: #146 Ben Hur

John 3:16 — 86’d from Final 4

Nice, but where is the multi-colored clown wig? I really miss that look ;)

170 Mirage  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:19:35pm

re: #157 doppelganglander

OT: TOTUS is in big trouble now!

¬_¬
There are no words.

171 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:19:50pm

re: #155 Sharmuta

Successful third parties are difficult to establish, but I wonder if part of the reason we hear they’re not a viable option is so we remain good little hostages.

Could be, Shar. Does that mean we’re suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?

172 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:19:50pm
173 fish  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:20:03pm

While in the past I have been supportive of “academic freedom” bills (and still am if they are worded correctly to avoid bias) I cannot express how repugnant I find this proposed change to the Texas Curriculum. It is one thing to allow teachers to bring in “opposing viewpoint” materials for discussion purposes, and another to require that all text books contain arguments based on a particular religious point of view.

I hope this fails and that everyone supporting it is removed from office.

174 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:21:02pm

re: #165 buzzsawmonkey

Nonsense. That sort of statement can only be made by rock ‘n’ roll chilluns who don’t really comprehend that there are worlds of music over and above the gee-tar.

my dad was a swing/big band fan, and my mom a concert violinist…I’ve been around alot of music tho not at expert at any of it

175 Jack Burton  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:21:28pm

re: #163 Sharmuta

Is that a joke? He doesn’t know how to pronounce “Orion”?!

Constellations and all that jazz is above his pay grade.

176 Gus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:21:40pm

OT

Stealers Wheel - Stuck in the Middle With You

Youtube Video

177 Kragar  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:21:43pm

re: #163 Sharmuta

Is that a joke? He doesn’t know how to pronounce “Orion”?!

Maybe he was thinking of the Japanese beer?

178 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:21:49pm

re: #162 turn

Ok, my issue is I didn’t understand that OLT. At any rate even though I have issues with ID I’d never get a anti-ID tattoo that spread completely across my back. That’s a little overboard.

It was a psychiatric joke that may need an orthpaedic surgeon. ;)

Anyone that gets a tattoo like that has some “issues”, IMO.

And before you Lizards with big old weird tats jump me and beat me to death, my 18 yo daughter has a tattoo of GANESH all across her upper back. The work is beautiful, but I am still in disbelief. I had to ask her if she felt like her parents didn’t love her or something. She laughed her butt off at me. ;)

I hope to live long enough to see how this thing looks in thirty years.

179 Mirage  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:21:52pm

re: #166 Sharmuta

But the left’s nut jobs aren’t keeping them out of power. Ours are.

If that’s the case, it could be argued that the left are all nut jobs …

180 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:22:04pm
181 rawmuse  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:22:06pm

re: #164 Mirage

Authoritarianism looks, smells, and feels the same no matter from which direction it emanates.

182 Emerald  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:22:09pm

I don’t know. Being vocal isn’t the same as being widespread. The creationists make a lot of noise, but they don’t have a lot of success stories. The general population tends to fight back when their insanity threatens to get into the school system. Most people recognize why it is important to keep creationism out of the schools. But the schoolbook issue can’t be overlooked. If they get this into Texas schools, it’ll spread and it’ll be hell trying to stop it then. They might put up a bigger fight here than in other places.

What bothers me is the support the creationists receive from members of the Republican Party. It’s hard to take someone seriously when they think The Flintstones was a documentary. The party might distance itself from creationists, but it’s going to be easy to tar the whole organization with the actions of the handful. And the Democrats will latch on to it - they can’t defend their handling of anything since coming into office, so they’ll have to go on the offensive. This nonsense is the perfect opportunity.

183 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:22:10pm

re: #134 MJBrutus

I am bothered by the reference to these kooks as “far right.” They are not on the right. That is, they are not conservative. Conservatism is about allegiance to our Constitution. These people are not. They’re not “far right” they’re simply “far out.”

An excellent point. Conservatism values a small, non-intrusive government. Ramming one particular religion down everyone’s throat is about as intrusive as it’s possible to be, and flies in the face of the Constitution on both specifics and spirit.

184 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:22:11pm

re: #171 scottishbuzzsaw

Could be, Shar. Does that mean we’re suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?

I’m not, but I worry far too many other republicans are. They pander to the very people that are harming our party and our chances of winning. When they do this and lose it leaves this country to the left. I’m not sure how much longer we can afford to keep losing elections.

185 jjmckay1216  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:22:36pm

re: #172 taxfreekiller

OT
Another “Snow Job”

[Link:

186 doppelganglander  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:22:46pm

re: #151 alegrias

* * * *
Been there, done that. Those third parties turned out to be real freak shows.

Our country does better than most with this bi-cameral group which as everyone knows has plenty of shades of Republican and Democrat, and grades from squishy to solid as a rock.

We always end up back at two parties, but there’s often a transitional period where three or four parties are active. I’m thinking specifically of how the Republican Party was founded when the two major parties were the Democrats and the Whigs. When the Whigs flamed out, many of its members, including Lincoln, became Republicans. I could imagine a third party founded by center-right elements of both parties eventually supplanting one of the Big Two.

187 alegrias  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:22:48pm

re: #164 Mirage

The left wing have kooks of a different color. The kookiness is still there, just focused on a different topic than the right wing kooks. Suffice it is to say, both right and left have their fair share of nut jobs.

* * * *
Well the wishy washy ones in the middle brought us Obama by 7% of votes. Who’s kookiest again?

188 turn  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:23:24pm

re: #153 Kosh’s Shadow

I haven’t read it recently, and yes, a tattoo is taking things too far.
Cue short guy pointing up -
“Da Flying Spaghetti Monster, Boss, Da Flying Spaghetti Monster!”

Ha. I’ll have to check into that site deeper, I wonder if that guy ever got a response from the school district. That chart relating global warming with the number of pirates was pretty comical.

189 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:23:36pm

re: #173 fish

While in the past I have been supportive of “academic freedom” bills (and still am if they are worded correctly to avoid bias) I cannot express how repugnant I find this proposed change to the Texas Curriculum.

“Academic freedom” bills exist for one purpose, and one purpose only — to promote the teaching of creationism in science classes. Every single “academic freedom” bill currently in state legislatures stems from the Discovery Institute’s model bill.

There is absolutely no need for these bills — except to sneak creationism into public schools.

190 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:23:59pm

re: #186 doppelganglander

We always end up back at two parties, but there’s often a transitional period where three or four parties are active. I’m thinking specifically of how the Republican Party was founded when the two major parties were the Democrats and the Whigs. When the Whigs flamed out, many of its members, including Lincoln, became Republicans. I could imagine a third party founded by center-right elements of both parties eventually supplanting one of the Big Two.

That would work for me.

191 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:24:35pm

re: #188 turn

Ha. I’ll have to check into that site deeper, I wonder if that guy ever got a response from the school district. That chart relating global warming with the number of pirates was pretty comical.


Global warming = higher oceans = more oceans = more pirates?

192 alegrias  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:24:37pm

re: #166 Sharmuta

But the left’s nut jobs aren’t keeping them out of power. Ours are.

* * *

Bull shiite. Plenty of middle of the roaders & bi-partisans brought us Obama.

193 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:25:14pm

re: #155 Sharmuta

Successful third parties are difficult to establish, but I wonder if part of the reason we hear they’re not a viable option is so we remain good little hostages. The time is ripe. The GOP better figure it out quickly, or one just might be around the corner.

The MSM aids and abets the 2 party evil money cult we have now, by ignoring or marginalizing third parties. The same goes for getting 3rd party candidates in debates.
The candidates either have to have a lot of money (like Perot), or be entertaining (like Perot) or both, or the only coverage is negative.

I will say the 3rd party gubernatorial candate in MA, Christy Mihos, seems to be running again; I heard one of his ads today.

194 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:25:18pm

re: #155 Sharmuta

Successful third parties are difficult to establish, but I wonder if part of the reason we hear they’re not a viable option is so we remain good little hostages. The time is ripe. The GOP better figure it out quickly, or one just might be around the corner.

It happened once upon a time to the Whigs when they split over a different issue in the 1850s. It can always happen again.

195 Dianna  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:25:20pm

re: #152 Charles

I get your point, and I agree that there’s nothing conservative about creationism, but unfortunately the fact is that this madness comes almost exclusively from the right wing.

Sometimes, I remember Franklin on Adams, “…but sometimes, on some subjects, absolutely out of his senses.”

196 itellu3times  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:25:38pm

Texas? Then here’s my argument - can Intelligent Design, and Mexico, really exist in the same universe?

/sorry Mexico

197 alegrias  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:25:38pm

re: #186 doppelganglander

We always end up back at two parties, but there’s often a transitional period where three or four parties are active. I’m thinking specifically of how the Republican Party was founded when the two major parties were the Democrats and the Whigs. When the Whigs flamed out, many of its members, including Lincoln, became Republicans. I could imagine a third party founded by center-right elements of both parties eventually supplanting one of the Big Two.

* * * *
That’s the squishy center where Arlen Specter, Olympia Snowe & Susan Collins live.

198 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:25:49pm

re: #192 alegrias

* * *

Bull shiite. Plenty of middle of the roaders & bi-partisans brought us Obama.

Yes- because creationists scare the hell out of them.

199 Salamantis  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:26:12pm

re: #192 alegrias

* * *

Bull shiite. Plenty of middle of the roaders & bi-partisans brought us Obama.

Yep. Because they refused to vote for what they perceived as the antiabortion, antigay, antiscience party.

200 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:26:31pm

re: #56 funky chicken

Well, since I watched something very similar happen in Kansas 20 years ago, let me give you my best hypothesis. The creationists made a major effort, starting at the smallest, most seemingly inconsequential levels, to take over the party. They showed up in force at every single meeting, worked like crazy at every GOP function, etc. Gradually, over a decade or more, they took over pretty much every facet of the state GOP. It happened quicker in KS because KS is a smaller state.

And now KS has a democrat governor, and resurgent democrat party.

Gives me an opportunity to dump one of my favorite quotes, with a slight alteration:

“When you say “radical right” today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party away from the Republican Party, and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics the GOPgoodbye.”

201 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:26:32pm
202 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:26:45pm

re: #184 Sharmuta

I’m not, but I worry far too many other republicans are. They pander to the very people that are harming our party and our chances of winning. When they do this and lose it leaves this country to the left. I’m not sure how much longer we can afford to keep losing elections.

good point…not one or two more nationally…the GOP is simply treading water at this point which is why these state votes mean so much

203 turn  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:26:53pm

re: #155 Sharmuta

Successful third parties are difficult to establish, but I wonder if part of the reason we hear they’re not a viable option is so we remain good little hostages. The time is ripe. The GOP better figure it out quickly, or one just might be around the corner.

How would one (or a group of like minded people) even go about establishing a third party? Would it take the form of some grassroots Internet campaign or something? Hey I like the idea but just don’t know if it would ever reasonably be possible.

204 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:27:34pm

re: #196 itellu3times

Texas? Then here’s my argument - can Intelligent Design, and Mexico, really exist in the same universe?

/sorry Mexico

Mexico is the logical end-state of the patronage system of government.

You know, like when Obama pays your mortgage and gases up your car, and you’ll do ANYTHING to “help” him.

205 opnion  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:27:46pm

re: #167 HoosierHoops

LOL
from the post:
FYI — Siena happens to be a private Catholic school. Apparently Jesus isn’t allowed to attend away games.

We’ll make a deal with them..When we get marching bands, Cheerleaders and 6 dollar beers in Mass then you can come a an NCAA games..
/not really..But I thought it funny they would take a sign from a fan…


Sienna is a liberal arts Catholic school in upstate New York with about 3,000 undergraduates.
They came real close to busting brackets with Louisville & would have become the next Gonzaga.

206 turn  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:27:52pm

re: #191 OldLineTexan

Global warming = higher oceans = more oceans = more pirates?

Hey, did you get that off some ID site or something?
/

207 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:27:54pm

re: #186 doppelganglander

We always end up back at two parties, but there’s often a transitional period where three or four parties are active. I’m thinking specifically of how the Republican Party was founded when the two major parties were the Democrats and the Whigs. When the Whigs flamed out, many of its members, including Lincoln, became Republicans. I could imagine a third party founded by center-right elements of both parties eventually supplanting one of the Big Two.

I’m not smart enough to come up with this new party’s governing platform…..but I think the name of this new party should be the Cincinnatus Party. And it should dedicate itself to adhering to his selfless philosophy.

en.wikipedia.org

208 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:28:23pm

re: #203 turn

? There are third and fourth parties. You ask the wrong question.

209 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:28:31pm

re: #206 turn

Hey, did you get that off some ID site or something?
/

Hey, it’s just an honest question!

////////////////////////////////////

210 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:28:39pm

re: #197 alegrias

That’s the squishy center where Arlen Specter, Olympia Snowe & Susan Collins live.

Not quite. Those are collectivists, not individualists, hence the RINO moniker. Funny though, the YECs themselves are a form of collectivist as well. I’ll bet there may be some small-government types who are either independent or hideout in the Democrat Party because they can’t stomach this shit.

211 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:29:00pm

re: #200 Slumbering Behemoth

Gives me an opportunity to dump one of my favorite quotes, with a slight alteration:

“When you say “radical right” today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party away from the Republican Party, and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics the GOPgoodbye.”


Agreed. And when has religion meant ‘earthly’ power anyway? Not the way I learned it…

212 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:29:09pm

re: #203 turn

How would one (or a group of like minded people) even go about establishing a third party? Would it take the form of some grassroots Internet campaign or something? Hey I like the idea but just don’t know if it would ever reasonably be possible.

The GOP has the perfect opportunity to revert back to a fiscally conservative, pro-Constitution party right now with 0bama and the economic crisis. If we can’t win big in 2010 with this situation and with a tailored message of fiscal responsibility- we are done.

213 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:29:30pm

re: #191 OldLineTexan

Global warming = higher oceans = more oceans = more pirates?

= less pirates (more room to avoid them)

214 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:29:36pm

re: #201 buzzsawmonkey

I had been under the impression that David Horowitz was promoting one or more academic freedom initiatives which were aimed not at promoting creationism, but at ending campus speech codes.

Is this not so, or do these initiatives go by another name?

Horowitz is pushing something called the “Academic Freedom Bill of Rights,” but as far as I know there is no proposed legislation based on it.

215 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:30:18pm

re: #204 OldLineTexan

Mexico is the logical end-state of the patronage system of government.

You know, like when Obama pays your mortgage and gases up your car, and you’ll do ANYTHING to “help” him.

It’s one end-state of that. Chicago is another. I think he’s trying for the latter.

216 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:30:40pm

re: #213 Naso Tang

= less pirates (more room to avoid them)

So we’re not having global warming then? Someone tell Algore!

/

217 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:31:13pm

re: #215 Honorary Yooper

It’s one end-state of that. Chicago is another. I think he’s trying for the latter.

I’m just ignorant of how to type “patronage” in Spanish.

;)

218 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:31:29pm

re: #205 opnion

Sienna is a liberal arts Catholic school in upstate New York with about 3,000 undergraduates.
They came real close to busting brackets with Louisville & would have become the next Gonzaga.

Sienna played really tough..I was impressed..They came within 7 minutes going to the sweet 16. But Louisville manned up and played beautifully at the end of the game..I’ve Louisville to win it all..To say I was sweating bullets is an understatement..

219 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:31:38pm
220 alegrias  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:32:14pm

re: #212 Sharmuta

The GOP has the perfect opportunity to revert back to a fiscally conservative, pro-Constitution party right now with 0bama and the economic crisis. If we can’t win big in 2010 with this situation and with a tailored message of fiscal responsibility- we are done.

* * * *
Now you’re talkin. Preserve protect & defend, baby.

Oh, and a ballsy foreign policy that doesn’t blow kisses at jihadists.

221 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:32:25pm
222 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:32:34pm

re: #219 taxfreekiller

They believe they have the God given right to tell you what to do.

I believe you!

223 opnion  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:32:48pm

re: #192 alegrias

* * *

Bull shiite. Plenty of middle of the roaders & bi-partisans brought us Obama.

Yup, the same Independents that voted for McCain in Open Primaries, turned around & voted for Obama.

224 jjmckay1216  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:32:53pm

re: #203 turn

How would one (or a group of like minded people) even go about establishing a third party? Would it take the form of some grassroots Internet campaign or something? Hey I like the idea but just don’t know if it would ever reasonably be possible.

wasn’t Zombie working on that a month or so back?

225 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:33:04pm

I stand corrected - there were some bills based on Horowitz’s idea, but they all seem to have petered out sometime around 2005.

All of the “academic freedom” bills currently pending are creationist bills.

226 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:33:09pm
They believe they have the God given right to tell you what to do.

I’m also reminded of another group…..

227 Summersong  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:33:16pm

re: #21 godfrey

The only fossils in Texas are from Homo creationis.

The fossils are from about 100 million years ago, during the Cretaceous period. During that time, north Arlington looked more like Galveston or the Mississippi coastline with giant reptiles roaming about, said Derek Main, a UT-Arlington graduate student who is heading the project.

mcclatchydc.com

228 turn  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:33:41pm

re: #189 Charles

There is absolutely no need for these bills — except to sneak creationism into public schools.

and make money publishing the new text books. That was a great observation you highlighted, I hadn’t thought about it but I bet there are big bucks to be made here. Kind of like the water meter lobby here in CA.

229 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:33:56pm

re: #152 Charles

I get your point, and I agree that there’s nothing conservative about creationism, but unfortunately the fact is that this madness comes almost exclusively from the right wing.

The Right has given such groups aid and comfort for a long time, and the Fundies have responded by attempting to take over the Conservative movement and twist it for their own purposes. What began as an overlap in outlook - in particular, the notion that government ought to stay out of people’s personal lives, an idea that played well with the Fundie’s belief that Liberalism was actively trying to snuff out religion - was perverted into a Fundamentalist Christian Jihadist movement, bent on imposing their will on everyone. As I’ve said before, the difference between these Fundamentalist groups and the Taliban is vanishingly small - they both want the same thing, and are willing to use the same means to achieve their goals, at everyone else’s expense.

The Right acquiesced to this view, partly because they felt that the gain in votes was worth the descent into stupidity and totalitarianism the Fundies represent; partly because they mistakenly felt that such putrid notions would never make it out of the closet; and partly because, increasingly, the Fundies were bending Conservatism and warping it beyond all recognition, filling the ranks with row after row of slack-jawed, drooling knuckle-draggers ready to cheer on anyone with a Bible to thump, and just as ready to condemn non-believers to what they are certain is the fiery pits of perpetual damnation.

The Founding Fathers kept religion out of politics for good reason. For one thing, they had seen first hand the wretched misery imposed by the wedding of church and state in England, and the horrendous suffering it caused. Second, they were smart enough to realize that those insistent on imposing their own beliefs on all others were, at core, fundamentally stupid, and the vision of a nation carpeted with double-wides stuffed full of these retards was enough to ensure the explicit ban on the merging of political and religious power.

Time to get back to those basics.

230 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:33:59pm
231 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:34:16pm

re: #214 Charles

Horowitz is pushing something called the “Academic Freedom Bill of Rights,” but as far as I know there is no proposed legislation based on it.

I certainly sounds like Discovery Institute stuff based on this :
David Horowitz tries to redefine “academic freedom”

232 doppelganglander  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:34:17pm

re: #197 alegrias

* * * *
That’s the squishy center where Arlen Specter, Olympia Snowe & Susan Collins live.

It doesn’t have to be. I think RINOism arises from naked self-interest. They are hardcore, inside the Beltway types (or wannabes) who are more interested in being liked and getting invited to the right parties than they are in serving their constituents or upholding principles. A center right party based on conservative principles of small government, fiscal restraint, and individual liberty, while embracing a federalist solution on social issues like abortion and gay marriage, would be very attractive to a lot of people. The Modern Whig Party, which has been linked here, seems to be attempting this, but they lose me with their open borders immigration platform.

233 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:35:00pm

re: #221 MandyManners

This is beyond the “tomato” v. “tomahto” thingy.

pimping for a private company is a very bad thing

234 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:35:16pm
235 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:35:17pm

re: #231 Naso Tang

I should have added, kind of old though.

236 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:35:33pm

re: #228 turn

and make money publishing the new text books. That was a great observation you highlighted, I hadn’t thought about it but I bet there are big bucks to be made here. Kind of like the water meter lobby here in CA.

What really gets me is these people’s cynical use of faith to generate wealth for themselves. It’s as if they forget the Gospels such as the money lenders in the temple and Jesus’ message about hypocrites.

237 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:35:35pm

re: #221 MandyManners

This is beyond the “tomato” v. “tomahto” thingy.


Who in the hell pronounces “Orion” wrong?

238 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:36:17pm

re: #237 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Who in the hell pronounces “Orion” wrong?

A Swede would

239 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:36:20pm

re: #221 MandyManners

This is beyond the “tomato” v. “tomahto” thingy.

That’s why he has to stop doing these public appearances. His poll numbers are really high and if he keeps this up, some people are going to figure out that he is not as smart as they think he is, nor is he as concerned about the country as he makes out to be. He’s really the best president we have ever had, and I don’t want to see him blow this because he is stupid or something.

Channeling Avanti.

240 turn  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:36:21pm

re: #208 Naso Tang

? There are third and fourth parties. You ask the wrong question.

I realize there are multiple parties Naso, I’m wondering how a new one might be successfully started. I know it might be a dumb question, but I’m sitting here wondering why it hasn’t already been done.

241 so.cal.swede  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:36:27pm

re: #88 gmsc

That Dogulas Adams article is fascinating. He was a great man.

242 opnion  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:36:46pm

re: #218 HoosierHoops

Sienna played really tough..I was impressed..They came within 7 minutes going to the sweet 16. But Louisville manned up and played beautifully at the end of the game..I’ve Louisville to win it all..To say I was sweating bullets is an understatement..

I have Louisville in my final four, but losing the Championship to Duke.
I think all number Ones will be in the Final Four with the exception of Pittsburg.
I think that I am in the minority.

243 doppelganglander  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:36:52pm

re: #237 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Who in the hell pronounces “Orion” wrong?

I did, when I was in 3rd grade.

244 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:37:10pm
245 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:38:07pm

re: #238 Naso Tang

A Swede would

Obama is Swedish?

////////////////////////

246 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:38:09pm
247 avanti  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:38:10pm

re: #112 Sharmuta

It’s not just Texas. This is a nationwide phenomenon. There are a number of states that are either pushing for similar legislation, or where the state GOP’s party platform calls for such legislation. And it’s not confined to the south- it’s as middle America as Iowa and Minnesota.

How do you lose the Creationist’s without losing a big chunk of the base or if you have to keep them, how can you win votes outside the base ?
It’s a problem that may well solve itself as the country becomes more secular, but that could be a decade or more.

248 Thor-Zone  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:38:34pm

Holy Dark Age BS Batman!

These guys are just as bad as the Mohomadians

249 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:38:46pm

re: #244 MandyManners

It wasn’t the only one for which he pimped.

the commercialization of the Presidency…Orion logos on Marine One etc

250 fish  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:38:55pm

re: #189 Charles

“Academic freedom” bills exist for one purpose, and one purpose only — to promote the teaching of creationism in science classes. Every single “academic freedom” bill currently in state legislatures stems from the Discovery Institute’s model bill.

There is absolutely no need for these bills — except to sneak creationism into public schools.

I understand and agree that the “academic freedom” bills were envisioned as a means to sneak creationism in to school. I also agree that any bill worded like the DI’s Model Bill is aimed at that, and there are several that have passed or are being voted on that do model that language.

I do feel that a bill can be worded in such a way that it does not encourage Creationism, but instead allows for possible debate and allows flexibility when new facts are discovered. (the work they intend to do at cern may completely change the way everyone looks at the creation of the universe). That is what I am in favor of.

We will simply have to disagree.

251 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:38:55pm

re: #240 turn

I realize there are multiple parties Naso, I’m wondering how a new one might be successfully started. I know it might be a dumb question, but I’m sitting here wondering why it hasn’t already been done.

Because nobody has defined it. Have you?

Makes me think of a movie I watched last night. MILK. Not my idol exactly, but it would be a good example of what it takes.

252 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:39:56pm

re: #189 Charles

“Academic freedom” bills exist for one purpose, and one purpose only — to promote the teaching of creationism in science classes. Every single “academic freedom” bill currently in state legislatures stems from the Discovery Institute’s model bill.

There is absolutely no need for these bills — except to sneak creationism into public schools.

If you’re ever bored and want some fun, offer the following solution to your nearest Fundie: allow the teaching of ID in the public schools - as part of a comparative religions class.

They will start raining hellfire down upon your eternally damned soul within seconds. There’s nothing “comparative” about religion, as far as they’re concerned, and the notion of teaching ANYTHING other than their own perverted version of The One True Religion is anathema to them.

Press them a little harder, and they will also admit that such a course of action doesn’t mesh with another of their goals: the destruction of science, which teaches rational, objective thought and which values the questioning of received wisdom.

253 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:39:59pm

re: #245 OldLineTexan

Obama is Swedish?

////////////////////////

Well, we don’t really know where he was born, do we? ///

254 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:40:08pm

re: #237 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Who in the hell pronounces “Orion” wrong?

Betcha Obama would pronounce the 7th planet as Ur-Anus. Then we could say he was pulling it out of his ass…….

255 so.cal.swede  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:40:13pm

re: #213 Naso Tang

= less pirates (more room to avoid them)

but surely, easier for the pirates to avoid capture. there must be a balance point.

256 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:40:21pm

re: #247 avanti

How do you lose the Creationist’s without losing a big chunk of the base or if you have to keep them, how can you win votes outside the base ?
It’s a problem that may well solve itself as the country becomes more secular, but that could be a decade or more.

enlist BO…

257 quickjustice  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:40:50pm

I attended the Explorers Club annual banquet Saturday night. The outgoing president, a Texan, made a specific point (in front of the audience of about a thousand) of criticizing how close the Texas State Board of Education is to destroying science education for Texas public schoolchildren.

258 opnion  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:40:59pm

re: #237 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Who in the hell pronounces “Orion” wrong?

He does much better with Taleebahn & Pakeestahn

259 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:41:05pm

re: #247 avanti

STFU asshole! I don’t want you damned help fixing my party. You tell us not to call your Precious a commie because we’ll alienate the middle. It’s not calling your Precious a commie that will lose us the middle- it’s these people. So excuse me if I don’t buy your bullshit that we have to keep them. You’re a planted condom.

260 Buster Bunny  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:41:08pm

re: #256 albusteve

enlist BO…

Yes .. thats what we really need .. a president who leads by example !

Send him to the front in Afghanistan !

261 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:41:08pm
262 turn  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:41:24pm

re: #212 Sharmuta

Seriously, drop this creationist and anti-abortion bull shit and stick with the core that gets you enough mileage to win without alienating conservatives. Sure, keep them as beliefs if you choose just don’t make them a political issue and shoot yourself in the foot. I was kind of serious with that question, why isn’t there a “third” party movement out there right now?

263 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:41:24pm

re: #255 so.cal.swede

but surely, easier for the pirates to avoid capture. there must be a balance point.

Hey! so.cal.swede! Say “Orion”.

/

264 Thor-Zone  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:41:34pm

re: #105 buzzsawmonkey

Robert Johnson beats out Jelly Roll Morton, Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong? Sidney Bechet, Fletcher Henderson, Red Nichols, Bix Biederbecke, Benny Goodman, Fats Waller?

If you are really into the blues he does.

265 austin_blue  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:41:34pm

Politics in Texas is like watching The Gong Show. Every two years various villages around the State send their idiots to Austin for 100 days. Thinking people cringe.

Got a great new T-shirt this weekend. Portrait of Darwin in Iconic Obama-y colors with the phrase “Very Gradual Change We Can Believe In”.

266 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:41:38pm
267 so.cal.swede  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:41:43pm

re: #238 Naso Tang

A Swede would


I take offense! a strongly worded letter is in the mail

(reading: hurdy-durdy-duu)

268 KingKenrod  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:41:51pm

re: #247 avanti

How do you lose the Creationist’s without losing a big chunk of the base or if you have to keep them, how can you win votes outside the base ?
It’s a problem that may well solve itself as the country becomes more secular, but that could be a decade or more.

You could point out the movement is partially funded by Islamists trying to get their theology taught in US schools.

269 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:42:08pm

re: #257 quickjustice

I attended the Explorers Club annual banquet Saturday night. The outgoing president, a Texan, made a specific point (in front of the audience of about a thousand) of criticizing how close the Texas State Board of Education is to destroying science education for Texas public schoolchildren.

As long as it wasn’t a meeting of the Super Adventure Club.

270 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:42:37pm

re: #260 Buster Bunny

Yes .. thats what we really need .. a president who leads by example !

Send him to the front in Afghanistan !

he’s delivering votes in droves to the republicans

271 doppelganglander  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:42:52pm

re: #229 SixDegrees

Well said. I’d like to point out that the Fundies’ belief that Leftists want to drive religion out of American life isn’t entirely a paranoid delusion. Many Leftists believe all religion is pernicious and should be extinguished, thereby freeing us (I assume) to enter the worker’s paradise of atheistic Marxism.

The Founders couldn’t possibly have anticipated the modern Fundamentalist movement (or trailer parks, for that matter), but they were absolutely right about keeping government out of religion and vice versa.

272 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:42:56pm
273 turn  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:43:11pm

re: #224 jjmckay1216

Hey, I think she was. Seriously, why hasn’t anybody started this movement yet?

274 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:43:23pm

re: #157 doppelganglander

OT: TOTUS is in big trouble now!

Some sort of subliminal confusion with “Oreo” perhaps? Who owns this company, exactly?

275 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:43:29pm

Ed Morrisey on what the end of America will be like……..
So what would national bankruptcy mean?

276 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:43:31pm

re: #250 fish

I do feel that a bill can be worded in such a way that it does not encourage Creationism, but instead allows for possible debate and allows flexibility when new facts are discovered.

Is there any evidence that there is a need for a bill such as this?

277 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:43:34pm

re: #6 redc1c4

does anyone in Texas even read books?

/ducks

My best friend does, but she’s from Minnesota…but lives in Texas:)

(Hoping that she never see’s this…)

/S

278 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:43:53pm

re: #265 austin_blue

Politics in Texas is like watching The Gong Show. Every two years various villages around the State send their idiots to Austin for 100 days. Thinking people cringe.

Got a great new T-shirt this weekend. Portrait of Darwin in Iconic Obama-y colors with the phrase “Very Gradual Change We Can Believe In”.

We send you Dan Patrick. He’s a pretty good guy, IMO.

I’ll call and ask if he’s a Closet creationist.

279 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:43:58pm

re: #272 MandyManners

I figured L’eggo Waffles would get Marine One.

ha!…there you have it

280 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:44:00pm

re: #259 Sharmuta

STFU asshole! I don’t want you damned help fixing my party. You tell us not to call your Precious a commie because we’ll alienate the middle. It’s not calling your Precious a commie that will lose us the middle- it’s these people. So excuse me if I don’t buy your bullshit that we have to keep them. You’re a planted condom.

I’m afraid of what I might do should one of these people say in my presence ‘we are the BASE, you can’t win without us!”

281 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:44:02pm
282 Buster Bunny  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:44:10pm

re: #270 albusteve

he’s delivering votes in droves to the republicans

But the trailer park afficionados are going to get a bigger cheque with more ZEROS on it now !

Should be just enough to buy half a candy bar.

283 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:44:12pm
284 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:44:44pm

re: #272 MandyManners

I figured L’eggo Waffles would get Marine One.

It’s not Marine-1 anymore…It’s now Waffle-1…:)

285 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:44:53pm

re: #247 avanti

How do you lose the Creationist’s without losing a big chunk of the base or if you have to keep them, how can you win votes outside the base ?
It’s a problem that may well solve itself as the country becomes more secular, but that could be a decade or more.

Just to be clear here..I don’t think Creationist represent a big chunk of the base..

286 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:45:15pm

re: #255 so.cal.swede

but surely, easier for the pirates to avoid capture. there must be a balance point.

Capture? Don’t make me laugh. Nobody wants to kill them and nobody knows what to do with them when captured. This whole fiasco (warships against pirates) is the most pitiful I have heard of since the 1600’s.

Anybody waving an RPG or AK47 from an outboard boat in some areas is toast, literally. How frigging hard is that to implement?

(Oh, forgot about the UN, I did)

287 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:45:15pm

re: #275 Killgore Trout

Ed Morrisey on what the end of America will be like……..
So what would national bankruptcy mean?

cellos will become cooking fuel

288 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:45:21pm
289 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:45:32pm

re: #280 scottishbuzzsaw

I’m afraid of what I might do should one of these people say in my presence ‘we are the BASE, you can’t win without us!”

My plan is to tell them to shove it. The electoral record since 1992 speaks for itself- when fiscal conservatives are alienated, the democrats win.

290 Salamantis  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:45:35pm

re: #285 HoosierHoops

Just to be clear here..I don’t think Creationist represent a big chunk of the base..

What they DO represent is a LOUD chunk of the base.

291 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:45:42pm

re: #284 Dustyvet

It’s not Marine-1 anymore…It’s now Waffle-1…:)

Eggos are waffles.

L’Eggs were pantyhose.

If you confuse them, I shall laugh.

292 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:45:46pm
293 Buster Bunny  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:45:52pm

re: #287 albusteve

cellos will become cooking fuel

Winos will become entrees.

294 Thor-Zone  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:46:02pm

re: #121 buzzsawmonkey

On just what grounds?

Song writing.

295 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:46:03pm
296 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:46:11pm

re: #287 albusteve

I could cook maybe a dozen meals then.

297 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:46:16pm
298 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:46:18pm

re: #285 HoosierHoops

Just to be clear here..I don’t think Creationist represent a big chunk of the base..

Indeed- it is the Big Lie that we have to accept them as our political allies.

299 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:46:22pm

re: #282 Buster Bunny

But the trailer park afficionados are going to get a bigger cheque with more ZEROS on it now !

Should be just enough to buy half a candy bar.

there will be no more candy bars, with sugar at 40$ a pound

300 doppelganglander  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:46:36pm

re: #236 Sharmuta

What really gets me is these people’s cynical use of faith to generate wealth for themselves. It’s as if they forget the Gospels such as the money lenders in the temple and Jesus’ message about hypocrites.

Don’t you understand? God wants them to be rich! Google “prosperity gospel.”re: #285 HoosierHoops

Just to be clear here..I don’t think Creationist represent a big chunk of the base..

They

301 doppelganglander  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:46:47pm

Gah!

302 Buster Bunny  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:46:56pm

re: #299 albusteve

there will be no more candy bars, with sugar at 40$ a pound

Oh ok .. NOW he’s evil.

303 opnion  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:46:59pm

re: #283 MandyManners

I’m beginning to get the notion that that man really isn’t familiar with this nation.

I have thought that for a while. It seems to me that his allegiance to this country is very suspect.

304 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:47:40pm
305 Emerald  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:47:41pm

At this point, I have no problem seeing both the Democrat and Republican parties go under. Both have failed to serve the country, although in different ways.

I see two real problems in starting a third party, though. First, such groups are going to appeal to the more radical portions of the population. Most people aren’t going to go with a new party, either from inertia or thinking it’s a wasted vote. This leads to the second problem.

Say the “American Tea Party” forms tomorrow with 10,000 members. Within a week, 100,000 radical leftists/creationists/KKK members/psycho circus clowns/whoever can join and change the party. The takeover doesn’t have to be, and probably wouldn’t be, fast. The original members would continue working on getting the party established, set up the fundraising apparatus, get the PR going. Once all that groundwork is done, the original members realize they no longer control the direction of the party.

306 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:47:43pm
307 so.cal.swede  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:47:55pm

re: #286 Naso Tang

Capture? Don’t make me laugh. Nobody wants to kill them and nobody knows what to do with them when captured. This whole fiasco (warships against pirates) is the most pitiful I have heard of since the 1600’s.

Anybody waving an RPG or AK47 from an outboard boat in some areas is toast, literally. How frigging hard is that to implement?

(Oh, forgot about the UN, I did)

Clearly we are not talking about the same pirates here. My pirates have peg-legs, skull flags, and shirts comfortable for swordplay. No automatic kalashnikov rifles.

308 Buster Bunny  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:48:14pm

re: #303 opnion

I have thought that for a while. It seems to me that his allegiance to this country is very suspect.

Why would ANYONE vote for someone with huge unexplainable gaps in his life history and no feasible competant work history?

Any answers?

309 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:48:16pm

re: #304 MandyManners

I’m the one who confused them. I kept on thinking of “Leggo’ my Eggo”.

Well now. If you show up wearing waffles …

310 doppelganglander  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:48:16pm
re: #285 HoosierHoops

Just to be clear here..I don’t think Creationist represent a big chunk of the base..


What I was trying to say, before I was so rudely interrupted by the auto-refresh feature, is that the Creationists think they’re crucial, and that God is on their side and

wants

them to do this.

311 opnion  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:48:21pm

re: #285 HoosierHoops

Just to be clear here..I don’t think Creationist represent a big chunk of the base..

Absolutely & the trick is how to turn them out to vote & deny them influence on the agenda.

312 Gus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:48:48pm

re: #281 buzzsawmonkey

Reading the article, it suggests that there is nothing in Horowitz’s initiative(s)—assuming they are still active—that promotes, or is intended to promote, creationism; it merely expresses some concern over the lack of anything which specifically excludes it.

Granted that is a legitimate concern in the current climate, but it doesn’t come close to suggesting that Horowitz favors, or is interested in promoting, creationism.

Searching through FrontPage Magazine I found this article:

What’s Not Liberal about the Liberal Arts

By David Horowitz
FrontPageMagazine.com %P% Friday, October 20, 2006

In my book, The Professors, a text that Berube has criticized on more than one occasion, I have stated my view of professorial bias quite clearly: “[The Professors] is not intended as a text about left-wing bias in the university and does not propose that a leftwing perspective on academic faculties is a problem in itself. Every individual, whether conservative or liberal, has a perspective and therefore a bias. Professors have every right to interpret the subjects they teach according to their individual points of view. That is the essence of academic freedom.” (p. xxvi.)

In order to make me a focus of his attacks, therefore, Berube must disregard this and every other statement I have made to this effect, in order to present me as a leader of “the fringe right wing” and my campaign for an Academic Bill of Rights as “no more consequential than the extreme right’s past campaigns against the fluoridation of drinking water and the introduction of zip codes” (pp. 28-29). The basis for this caricature lies in comments made on behalf of Intelligent Design theory by two legislators who have sponsored versions of the Academic Bill of Rights. The implication drawn by Berube is that the Academic Bill of Rights would require the inclusion of Intelligent Design theory in biology courses. In fact, the Academic Bill of Rights legislation requires nothing. The bills Berube refers to are merely resolutions without enforcement powers, and they explicitly limit the diversity they would encourage to “the spectrum of significant scholarly opinion” – a spectrum that is left to be defined by the academic community. Under the Academic Bill of Rights, Intelligent Design theory would still be excluded from biology classes.

I have publicly stated – and more than once – that Intelligent Design is not a scientific theory and has no place in a biology curriculum. I have explained to both legislators, in the aftermath of their statements, that my Academic Bill of Rights will do nothing to further their agendas in regard to Intelligent Design, nor should it. Yet, without reference to the actual text of any resolution I have supported or any statement I have made, Berube asserts that my campaign would impose non-academic agendas, like Intelligent Design, on the academic curriculum.

313 avanti  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:49:11pm

re: #259 Sharmuta

STFU asshole! I don’t want you damned help fixing my party. You tell us not to call your Precious a commie because we’ll alienate the middle. It’s not calling your Precious a commie that will lose us the middle- it’s these people. So excuse me if I don’t buy your bullshit that we have to keep them. You’re a planted condom.

It’s not “your” party, it’s a American party, that I have supported in the past. Right now, we have two choices elect someone from the GOP, and get the social conservative baggage, or vote for the Dems, and get a fiscally liberal policy.

314 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:49:14pm

re: #247 avanti

How do you lose the Creationist’s without losing a big chunk of the base or if you have to keep them, how can you win votes outside the base ?
It’s a problem that may well solve itself as the country becomes more secular, but that could be a decade or more.

You do so by explicitly separating religion from politics; by making it very, very clear that Conservatism certainly shares an overlap with MANY religious views, but cannot and will not stand for anyone subverting Conservatism for the purpose of imposing religion through the power of the state. Constant reminders that Conservatism, at it’s core, requires government that is non-intrusive and which allows individuals the greatest possible scope of freedom would be in order. If the Fundies want to sit out elections because their wet dream of ramming their religious beliefs down everyone’s throats through the force of law, let them sit. Far better to lose, and deprive them of their Taliban-esque fantasy, than to win at the cost of accepting even a small sliver of such a fundamentally anti-American idea.

315 Dianna  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:49:24pm

re: #296 Killgore Trout

I could cook maybe a dozen meals then.

And every one would be ashes in your mouth, I imagine.

316 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:49:36pm

re: #308 Buster Bunny

Why would ANYONE vote for someone with huge unexplainable gaps in his life history and no feasible competant work history?

Any answers?

Because Chimpy McBushitler is MEAN. Jon Stewart said so.

/unfortunately, IMO, an accurate representation of a large chunk of American “voters”

317 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:49:40pm

re: #305 Emerald

That’s why I keep thinking we “Darwinists” should form a Creationists party and woo the creationists away from the party.

318 turn  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:49:51pm

re: #251 Naso Tang

Because nobody has defined it. Have you?

Makes me think of a movie I watched last night. MILK. Not my idol exactly, but it would be a good example of what it takes.

No I haven’t, I’ll have to go read about MILK, I do know his key to political success was the gay issue.

319 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:49:51pm
320 hartkid13  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:50:25pm

I’m from Texas I had Ms. Hardy as a teacher. She is a smart, hard-nosed teacher. I’m proud to have her on the TSB.

321 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:50:28pm

re: #281 buzzsawmonkey

Reading the article, it suggests that there is nothing in Horowitz’s initiative(s)—assuming they are still active—that promotes, or is intended to promote, creationism; it merely expresses some concern over the lack of anything which specifically excludes it.

Granted that is a legitimate concern in the current climate, but it doesn’t come close to suggesting that Horowitz favors, or is interested in promoting, creationism.

There is nothing in DI stuff that promotes creationism either is there? I don’t know Horowitz’s mindset, but it sounds like opening doors to any kind of woo if enough people support something; or it’s another version of “equal time” on radio.

322 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:50:34pm
323 Buster Bunny  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:50:43pm

re: #317 Sharmuta

That’s why I keep thinking we “Darwinists” should form a Creationists party and woo the creationists away from the party.

Hold Sharm .. that would make us ‘militant’ ‘activist’ Darwinists

BWAH HAHAHAHAHA

324 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:50:49pm
325 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:50:59pm

re: #314 SixDegrees

You do so by explicitly separating religion from politics; by making it very, very clear that Conservatism certainly shares an overlap with MANY religious views, but cannot and will not stand for anyone subverting Conservatism for the purpose of imposing religion through the power of the state. Constant reminders that Conservatism, at it’s core, requires government that is non-intrusive and which allows individuals the greatest possible scope of freedom would be in order. If the Fundies want to sit out elections because their wet dream of ramming their religious beliefs down everyone’s throats through the force of law, let them sit. Far better to lose, and deprive them of their Taliban-esque fantasy, than to win at the cost of accepting even a small sliver of such a fundamentally anti-American idea.

I think Barry Goldwater is spinning in his grave.

326 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:51:20pm

re: #317 Sharmuta

That’s why I keep thinking we “Darwinists” should form a Creationists party and woo the creationists away from the party.

Tricksie, Shar!

327 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:51:32pm

re: #306 buzzsawmonkey

Oh, please.

like this…

Youtube Video

328 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:52:04pm

re: #315 Dianna

And every one would be ashes in your mouth, I imagine.

Porkchops cooked over 15-20 coats of varnish* probably taste pretty bad! And cancerous, to boot.

/my apologies if that’s too wrong

329 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:52:08pm
330 USBeast  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:52:58pm

I think a line from the old “Odd Couple” tv show is appropriate regarding Creationists.

Felix: “You can’t teach you anything! You suffer from invincible ignorance!”

P. S. Shire Network News has a new podcast up.

331 fish  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:53:03pm

re: #276 wrenchwench

Is there any evidence that there is a need for a bill such as this?

As far as indisputable evidence that would stand up in court, No. I don’t have that. I do have anecdotal evidence that in many subjects namely:History, and Social Sciences, and to some degree basic science, the text books are often inaccurate or teaching from a particular angle: “The writers of the Constitution owned slaves so the constitution can’t be trusted”, “The white man ruined North America for the natives” “Mankind is destroying the planet through pollution”

I want to know that if a Teacher doesn’t buy into the party line, s/he can challenge it without fear of retribution. No I do not want any teacher teaching in science class that one particular God or another created the universe. No I don’t want anything taught that cannot be backed up by evidence.

332 freetoken  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:53:12pm

re: #285 HoosierHoops

Just to be clear here..I don’t think Creationist represent a big chunk of the base..

At least here in California, I’d agree with you. However, that may not be true in TX, LA, FL, etc.

There has to be a reason the GOP in those states are so welcoming to these overtures (by the creationists/DI people.) Either the politicians truly believe it (in which case they may well be truly representative of their constituency), or, they believe they can’t win without the religious voting block.

333 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:53:15pm

re: #285 HoosierHoops

Just to be clear here..I don’t think Creationist represent a big chunk of the base..

Just a very vocal one, not unlike ANSWER, or World Can’t Wait, or any number of vocal fringe groups for the Democrats that they have allowed to take over their party. If you want to see what happens when you let the vocal fringe groups take over a political party, look no further than our current president.

334 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:53:22pm

re: #298 Sharmuta

Indeed- it is the Big Lie that we have to accept them as our political allies.

The big lie is that Conservatives have to accept their insane, totalitarian viewpoints. As allies, they’re welcome to support Conservative ideals. Those ideals do NOT include the imposition of a state-sponsored religion.

335 avanti  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:54:14pm

re: #285 HoosierHoops

Just to be clear here..I don’t think Creationist represent a big chunk of the base..

I hope you are correct, but the drive against evolution is all coming from the GOP, and that should be a hint.

336 Gus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:54:44pm

re: #329 buzzsawmonkey

Looks like Horowitz is a) not in favor of creationism/intelligent design, and b) having a little hijacking problem.

Yes, I think so. There are some writers at Front Page Magazine that would be in favor but not Horowitz. The academic freedom from what I understand has less to do with curriculum then it does with a student’s ability to safely debate with a professor without fear of academic failure, etc.

337 tackle  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:55:48pm

A little late to the thread, but I must ask this question. Forgive me if it’s been asked and answered before.
After seeing pictures of that psuedo-museum yesterday and seeing all of these anti-evolution bills, what is the end game for Creationists? I mean, most people are not complete idiots and even most religious people are embarrassed for these people. What’s their ultimate agenda?

338 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:56:19pm

re: #337 tackle

A little late to the thread, but I must ask this question. Forgive me if it’s been asked and answered before.
After seeing pictures of that psuedo-museum yesterday and seeing all of these anti-evolution bills, what is the end game for Creationists? I mean, most people are not complete idiots and even most religious people are embarrassed for these people. What’s their ultimate agenda?

My Private Caliphate.

////

339 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:56:25pm

re: #310 doppelganglander

them to do this.

Ohh.I didn’t see what you posted..I, unfortunately, was responding to Avanti.
Tonight this will be become an Avanti thread like every other one he posts in.
I wish he could post sometimes that doesn’t wrap himself in a coat of this is about me and my opinions and egging on people to Talk about what he posts. It gets old.
You’re in an ID Thread now Avanti..Shut up and learn something this time…

340 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:56:31pm

re: #332 freetoken

There has to be a reason the GOP in those states are so welcoming to these overtures (by the creationists/DI people.) Either the politicians truly believe it (in which case they may well be truly representative of their constituency), or, they believe they can’t win without the religious voting block.

It could be that the representative truly believe it, but it doesn’t follow that they’re representative of their constituency. It that others in the party aren’t running against creationists, so we’re left with creationists running for office. Most republicans aren’t asking about this issue in the vetting process. Maybe we should.

341 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:57:00pm

re: #337 tackle

A little late to the thread, but I must ask this question. Forgive me if it’s been asked and answered before.
After seeing pictures of that psuedo-museum yesterday and seeing all of these anti-evolution bills, what is the end game for Creationists? I mean, most people are not complete idiots and even most religious people are embarrassed for these people. What’s their ultimate agenda?

Some want to establish a Christian Nation.

342 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:57:10pm

Gotta run…will be gone for a few days. Take care, Lizard Clan, and don’t forget to laugh in all this insanity.

343 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:57:12pm

re: #331 fish

No I don’t want anything taught that cannot be backed up by evidence.

Who is the judge of the evidence?

344 Emerald  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:57:21pm

re: #317 Sharmuta

That’s why I keep thinking we “Darwinists” should form a Creationists party and woo the creationists away from the party.

Oooh. That could be fun. Given the stuff they fall for, they’d certainly be easy enough to lead around.

345 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:57:34pm

re: #338 OldLineTexan

My Private Caliphate.

////

No need for sarc tags on that. That’s exactly what some of them want.

346 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:57:38pm
347 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:58:02pm
348 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:58:16pm

re: #345 Sharmuta

No need for sarc tags on that. That’s exactly what some of them want.

HA! Well, at least the ones from Texas can’t read that, right?

/

349 freetoken  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:58:43pm

re: #340 Sharmuta

Most republicans aren’t asking about this issue in the vetting process. Maybe we should.

Which is, I believe, one of Charles’ points in bringing these issues to the front… that indeed without the sifting on this issue by the GOP machine, the end result is candidates that are easy targets.

350 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:58:56pm

re: #266 MandyManners

Ummmm…I’ve never seen avanti post that FCBBHO is anything that wasn’t stupid.

FTFY!

351 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:59:01pm

re: #347 buzzsawmonkey

Didn’t the B-52s record “Livin’ in My Own Private Caliphate?”

Dunno. The Judys were of course the most influential alterna-pop group of the post-disco era.

//////////////

352 avanti  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:59:27pm

re: #314 SixDegrees

“Constant reminders that Conservatism, at it’s core, requires government that is non-intrusive and which allows individuals the greatest possible scope of freedom would be in order.”

Friggin brilliant, why not something like that in a parties platform. I though that was a libertarian idea too, but they have some other issues.

353 alegrias  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 2:59:30pm

re: #313 avanti

It’s not “your” party, it’s a American party, that I have supported in the past. Right now, we have two choices elect someone from the GOP, and get the social conservative baggage, or vote for the Dems, and get a fiscally liberal policy.

* * * *
We’re getting a lot more than just “fiscally liberal policy” with Dems right now. Dems are pushing their crappy leftist baggage, if you’ll excuse my calling all their socially twisted baggage crappy. I don’t appreciate Democrats assuming we all want all or agree with their social baggage, in addition to their “liberal fiscal” policies.

354 debutaunt  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:00:11pm

re: #267 so.cal.swede

I take offense! a strongly worded letter is in the mail

(reading: hurdy-durdy-duu)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAA

355 Lincolntf  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:00:14pm

re: #335 avanti

The drive against Capitalism is all coming from the Dems. You worry about that, and we’ll take care of the Creationists.

356 Emerald  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:00:15pm

re: #183 SixDegrees

An excellent point. Conservatism values a small, non-intrusive government. Ramming one particular religion down everyone’s throat is about as intrusive as it’s possible to be, and flies in the face of the Constitution on both specifics and spirit.

The problem is creationists’ beliefs on other matters - such as abortion - mean they end up Republican as default. Their ideas run counter to what the party originally stood for, but they’re noisy enough to get consideration, if only at the local level for now.

357 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:00:21pm

re: #347 buzzsawmonkey

Didn’t the B-52s record “Livin’ in My Own Private Caliphate?”


the there were these guys

Youtube Video

358 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:00:21pm

re: #336 Gus 802

Yes, I think so. There are some writers at Front Page Magazine that would be in favor but not Horowitz. The academic freedom from what I understand has less to do with curriculum then it does with a student’s ability to safely debate with a professor without fear of academic failure, etc.

And has this been a problem throughout human history, or is the assumption that learning to debate and accept win or loss is no longer the name of the game?

359 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:00:29pm

re: #349 freetoken

Which is, I believe, one of Charles’ points in bringing these issues to the front… that indeed without the sifting on this issue by the GOP machine, the end result is candidates that are easy targets.

And I agree. The thing is, it has to go hand-in-hand with pro-science republicans getting involved in the party locally, because the earlier point about Kansas is true. If we’re not involved to stop these people on a grassroots level, they’ll continue to end up on the ballots.

360 funky chicken  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:01:13pm

re: #340 Sharmuta

Actually, the folks in control of the local party apparatus do the vetting, and they push the creationist candidates on the rest of us, IMHO.

361 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:01:42pm

dinner break.

362 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:02:03pm

re: #359 Sharmuta

And I agree. The thing is, it has to go hand-in-hand with pro-science republicans getting involved in the party locally, because the earlier point about Kansas is true. If we’re not involved to stop these people on a grassroots level, they’ll continue to end up on the ballots.

363 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:02:07pm

re: #344 Emerald

Oooh. That could be fun. Given the stuff they fall for, they’d certainly be easy enough to lead around.

That might be a lucrative way to fund my retirement. Their money would do a lot more good in my pocket than it ever would in theirs.

364 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:02:18pm
365 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:02:38pm

re: #364 buzzsawmonkey

You claim to support government non-intrusiveness and you admit to voting for the most aggressively intrusive head of government in this nation’s history?

You are either lying about what you claim to support, or feeble-minded.

or both.

366 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:02:58pm
367 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:03:00pm

re: #360 funky chicken

Actually, the folks in control of the local party apparatus do the vetting, and they push the creationist candidates on the rest of us, IMHO.

I’ve been on a selection committee, and it didn’t come up. But that’s WHY pro-science republicans must get involved. Too many of the party’s local divisions are in the hands of creationists.

368 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:03:07pm

re: #365 redc1c4

or both.

Damn. You beat me to it…….
:)

369 opnion  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:03:11pm

re: #319 MandyManners

Pledged allegiance to his crotch. Wouldn’t wear the pin on his lapel. Thinks there are 57 states. Thinks 1,000 people got killed in that tornado in Kansas.

Ok, now I’ll get out there. How come his trip to Pakeestahn with his pakistani college room mate fell down the memory hole?
Why befriend unrepentant terrorists like Ayers & Dhorn?
Why sit in a pew for 20 years while a vitriolic, anti American, anti Semetic, racist pastor rants?
How come he worked for a Saul Alinsky inspired organization?
Lastly what attracted him to a bitter racist who was never proud of her country until the Campaign & called America a “Mean Counrty”?
Just asking

370 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:03:29pm

re: #362 redc1c4

I don’t see your comment, just mine.

371 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:03:48pm

Gays do the right thing an ask forgiveness….
An Apology for Gay Marriage
Liveleak Video

372 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:04:28pm

re: #370 Sharmuta

I don’t see your comment, just mine.

that’s because the FSM ate it…… %-)

i was opining that part of the problem might be that the “pro-science Republicans” are the ones busy w*rking for a living, and don’t have time for politics….

373 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:04:52pm
374 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:05:14pm

re: #369 opnion

Ok, now I’ll get out there. How come his trip to Pakeestahn with his pakistani college room mate fell down the memory hole?
Why befriend unrepentant terrorists like Ayers & Dhorn?
Why sit in a pew for 20 years while a vitriolic, anti American, anti Semetic, racist pastor rants?
How come he worked for a Saul Alinsky inspired organization?
Lastly what attracted him to a bitter racist who was never proud of her country until the Campaign & called America a “Mean Counrty”?
Just asking

i can answer the last one: it gave them something in common.

375 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:06:11pm

re: #373 taxfreekiller

Nancy Pelosi and her commie wing of the commie Demo-rat party have total control of all elective office selection from Mayors to U.S. Senators that is why they all vote 100% commie loon when she says so.

really? i didn’t get that memo yet……

376 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:06:15pm

re: #372 redc1c4

that’s because the FSM ate it…… %-)

i was opining that part of the problem might be that the “pro-science Republicans” are the ones busy w*rking for a living, and don’t have time for politics….

We have to stop thinking like that, because our ideals are not being represented and worse- when we lose it makes working for a living and supporting the government that much more difficult.

377 KingKenrod  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:06:15pm

re: #298 Sharmuta

Indeed- it is the Big Lie that we have to accept them as our political allies.

The problem is bigger than just getting rid of the minority of hardcore activist creationists. The meme has grown in conservative culture that evolution is a leftist plot to secularize the US and attack traditional Judeo-Christian values, and ID is the opportunity to fight back. I think this idea has grown pretty big, thanks to things like Ben Stein’s Expelled, and it is becoming de rigueur. Imagine trying to throw the pro-life faction out of the GOP.

378 Egregious Philbin  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:06:25pm

Why the headlong rush into complete stupidity? Why do we need to be like the taliban, and let the radical elements of fundamentalism determine what broken dogma our kids will be forced to learn?

I swear, these guys are killing what is left of the GOP. We are becoming the “no nothings” and letting these unschooled talibornagain morons to make policy.

Enough is enough! Ban any technology that was invented since Darwin was born for any of these creationists. Let them live in the Luddite world they crave so badly. No cars, no internet, no medicines, none of that evil “Science”.

I sense so much stupidity in the force…

379 Gus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:06:37pm

re: #358 Naso Tang

And has this been a problem throughout human history, or is the assumption that learning to debate and accept win or loss is no longer the name of the game?

I am not aware of the history of academic freedom for students. Having listened to Horowitz in the past the crux of the current problem revolves mainly around literature, history, and sociology. Many say this is a wide spread problem with some glaring example popping up from time to time. For instance a student refuting a revisionist history professor’s point of view and not only receiving failing grade but sometimes academic censure.

Common sense tells me that this probably was the case as you state throughout human history. In light of the leftist majority in a academia today it is logical that it would follow that the censure would come from a leftist point of view. Changes in ideological temperament within academia throughout history would indicate the political point of view of the academic majority.

More or less. :)

380 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:07:07pm
381 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:07:08pm

re: #378 Egregious Philbin

What a great nic!

382 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:07:32pm

re: #376 Sharmuta

We have to stop thinking like that, because our ideals are not being represented and worse- when we lose it makes working for a living and supporting the government that much more difficult.

true, but if all the meetings are held during the w*rk day, who gets to attend?

383 opnion  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:07:47pm

re: #335 avanti

I hope you are correct, but the drive against evolution is all coming from the GOP, and that should be a hint.

Avanti, the Creationists in the GOP are a problem, but IMO do not run the party.
The hard Socialist left now calls the tune in the Democratic Party.
Creationism did not sink the GOP last time around. It was an insipid grinning fool speaking in generalities supported by a totally morally bereft MSM.

384 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:08:26pm

re: #366 taxfreekiller

The drive against common sense , reason , and morality is all coming from the commie liberal loon anti American , environmental wacko Democrats.

I agree. The problem is how do we take it back? They took 40 years to enact their agenda through slow incrementalism. We don’t have 40 years to get it back - not at the rate they’re going driving us into a new dark age.

385 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:08:31pm

re: #371 Killgore Trout

I am strongly pro-Bonobo.

386 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:08:33pm

re: #381 Sharmuta

What a great nic!

How do you think 0bama would pronounce it?

387 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:08:38pm

re: #377 KingKenrod

The problem is bigger than just getting rid of the minority of hardcore activist creationists. The meme has grown in conservative culture that evolution is a leftist plot to secularize the US and attack traditional Judeo-Christian values, and ID is the opportunity to fight back. I think this idea has grown pretty big, thanks to things like Ben Stein’s Expelled, and it is becoming de rigueur. Imagine trying to throw the pro-life faction out of the GOP.

Which I touched on earlier- the DI has intentionally obfuscated creationism, so that they’re even hoodwinking those that support science because they’ve bought into the propaganda that ID is a happy compromise, when in reality, it’s anything but.

388 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:08:58pm
389 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:09:07pm

re: #378 Egregious Philbin

Why the headlong rush into complete stupidity? Why do we need to be like the taliban, and let the radical elements of fundamentalism determine what broken dogma our kids will be forced to learn?

I swear, these guys are killing what is left of the GOP. We are becoming the “no nothings” and letting these unschooled talibornagain morons to make policy.

Enough is enough! Ban any technology that was invented since Darwin was born for any of these creationists. Let them live in the Luddite world they crave so badly. No cars, no internet, no medicines, none of that evil “Science”.
Nice Nic..Lucid post..Welcome newbee.. Look forward to your input.


I sense so much stupidity in the force…

390 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:09:25pm

re: #386 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How do you think 0bama would pronounce it?

uh-erm-ah-mum-ble

391 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:09:32pm
392 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:09:37pm

re: #352 avanti

“Constant reminders that Conservatism, at it’s core, requires government that is non-intrusive and which allows individuals the greatest possible scope of freedom would be in order.”

Friggin brilliant, why not something like that in a parties platform. I though that was a libertarian idea too, but they have some other issues.

Thank you. I agree that this is an idea that has gotten lost over the years, but it’s what drew me to Conservatism in the first place, and it’s what keeps me here. Liberalism seems to thrive by imposing government will on the individual; the country, on the other hand, seems to thrive when the individual is given the most power.

A platform plank would be an excellent idea. It’s heartfelt, resonates with pretty much any reasonable person, and doesn’t have the gimmicky feel of the “Contract With America,” which attempted something similar but failed because it was a marketing slogan without any real actions to back it up.

Note that such accompanying actions are critical to acceptance.

393 debutaunt  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:09:37pm

re: #299 albusteve

there will be no more candy bars, with sugar at 40$ a pound

There will be huge underground trafficking in M&Ms

394 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:09:39pm

re: #385 OldLineTexan

I am strongly pro-Bonobo.

Ruttin Bonobos…

395 USBeast  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:09:52pm

Maybe there needs to be a break away party from the GOP. Call it the Franklin Party with the motto: “A Republic…if you can keep it.”

396 freetoken  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:09:52pm

re: #359 Sharmuta

The creationist movement is just one of many issues on which the GOP has been negligent of having a vigorous, in-house debate.

There is an old struggle, at the heart of “conservatism”, that revolves around ideological purity vs. diversity. Normally it is couched like this: conservatives must be consistent; “ideological purity” as a term is not often used, but the upshot is the same - how to gather into one political body (GOP) people of differing beliefs.

How this all will play out over the next few election cycles I don’t know.

397 opnion  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:10:04pm

re: #374 redc1c4

i can answer the last one: it gave them something in common.

Excellent point. Where are the girl friends that he had? They must have gotten a talking to , to shut up. We all have ex girlfriends, that would love to slam us.

398 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:10:14pm

re: #386 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How do you think 0bama would pronounce it?

Eee-greg-eee-ous Puh-hilbin

399 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:10:14pm

re: #380 taxfreekiller

#375

try filing for State Rep. and see how far you get before you get interview

i’d be toast as soon as they found out i post here… %-)

400 NYCHardhat  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:10:28pm

Anybody catch our Comrade in Chief laughing on 60 minutes last night?

401 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:10:58pm

re: #394 albusteve

Ruttin Bonobos…

Very influential African folk trio from the ‘20’s, right?

/

402 Querent  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:11:01pm

re: #137 doppelganglander

And that’s why I think the time may be ripe for a third party.

The Lizard Bloc!

403 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:11:02pm

re: #385 OldLineTexan

I am strongly pro-Bonobo.

Damn dirty apes!
/Heston

404 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:11:31pm

re: #389 HoosierHoops

This comment I made got buried in your comment..There is a scientific name for it..but i can’t spell it..
Nice Nic..Lucid post..Welcome newbee.. Look forward to your input.

405 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:11:42pm

re: #393 debutaunt

There will be huge underground trafficking in M&Ms

you will be able to buy two woman and box of cello necks with one bag…

406 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:11:53pm
407 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:12:27pm

re: #403 Killgore Trout

Damn dirty apes!
/Heston

They were forced to split from the Chimpanzee Party over tool-use.

/

408 fish  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:12:44pm

re: #343 Naso Tang

Who is the judge of the evidence?

Well that is the rub, isn’t it? I can show you data that is very convincing that mankind is THE cause of climate change and that it cannot be argued. I can show you other data that proves fairly conclusively that climate change is occurring as part of a natural cycle. So who is to judge what evidence is right and what is wrong? I don’t have that answer.

However, evidence is not and can not be: “It is written so it must be”

409 opnion  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:12:47pm

re: #400 NYCHardhat

Anybody catch our Comrade in Chief laughing on 60 minutes last night?

Yeah, grinning about a bad economy! He must be a riot at funerals.

410 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:12:52pm

re: #360 funky chicken

Actually, the folks in control of the local party apparatus do the vetting, and they push the creationist candidates on the rest of us, IMHO.

In the case of school boards, an awful lot of Creationist members have gotten there simply by lying about their agendas, then trying to impose their will once they had a majority in place. This has led to recalls in at least one district, once their agenda became known. They’re smart enough to realize that they will never get elected if they tell the truth. So they lie.

How this ties in with Christianity remains a mystery.

411 USBeast  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:12:56pm

re: #400 NYCHardhat

Anybody catch our Comrade in Chief laughing on 60 minutes last night?

No. I was watching “A Clockwork Orange”. It made more sense to me now than it made when it was made.

412 KingKenrod  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:13:14pm

re: #391 taxfreekiller

#375

check out the votes in the U.S. House on the Democrt side.

The only time she and Reid allow them to vote off the line is when
the deal is done by the RINO’s votes, they allow an equal number of Demorats to vote no so’s to look good.

Yup - every GOP vote on the Dem side is just one more red state Dem let off the hook.

413 Gus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:13:24pm

re: #407 OldLineTexan

They were forced to split from the Chimpanzee Party over tool-use.

/

Would that have been over the Creationist Banana Tool?

414 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:13:49pm

re: #413 Gus 802

Would that have been over the Creationist Banana Tool?

yes: both sides went ape over the issue.

415 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:14:04pm

re: #413 Gus 802

Would that have been over the Creationist Banana Tool?

Only an ape that had no morals would peel a stick and fish for termites.

/

416 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:14:05pm
417 Gus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:14:54pm

re: #415 OldLineTexan

Only an ape that had no morals would peel a stick and fish for termites.

/

Damn atheist apes!

//

418 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:15:16pm

re: #416 buzzsawmonkey

It slices! It dices! It makes mounds of delicious fruit salad!

I’m picturing a chimp wearing that stupid headset the ShamWow guy wears……….

419 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:15:35pm

speaking of monkeys with tools, i was just at the post office…..

1 guy had a huge area in the parking lot blocked off so he could paint the stop blocks. the other guy, in a shirt and tie, was just standing there watching him.

our money @ w*rk.

420 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:15:55pm

re: #396 freetoken

The creationist movement is just one of many issues on which the GOP has been negligent of having a vigorous, in-house debate.

It’s hard to have that debate when “RINO” is what one can expect by raising these issues.

There is an old struggle, at the heart of “conservatism”, that revolves around ideological purity vs. diversity. Normally it is couched like this: conservatives must be consistent; “ideological purity” as a term is not often used, but the upshot is the same - how to gather into one political body (GOP) people of differing beliefs.

How this all will play out over the next few election cycles I don’t know.

In my view, it’s possible to have both ideological purity and diversity if the ideology welcomes diverse groups with a common theme- that of supporting individual rights. Goldwater conservatism needs to come back to the fore.

I too have no idea how this will all play out, but I know that unless pro-science republicans start getting involved, this creationists movement will continue to undermine what we value as conservatives.

421 avanti  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:16:00pm

re: #383 opnion

Avanti, the Creationists in the GOP are a problem, but IMO do not run the party.
The hard Socialist left now calls the tune in the Democratic Party.
Creationism did not sink the GOP last time around. It was an insipid grinning fool speaking in generalities supported by a totally morally bereft MSM.

I turned away from the GOP because of the religious right’s influence. I voted for BHO in hopes that he would govern from the middle. If it turns out that he is a Commie, I screwed up. I’d rather we didn’t have the financial crisis to deal with, it’s custom made as a excuse to expand government.

422 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:16:06pm

re: #417 Gus 802

Damn atheist apes!

//

You’ll note that they had a Lawgiver, but no Ape Creator.

Sound like RoP’ers* to me.

*Religion of Plantains

423 Gus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:16:24pm

re: #416 buzzsawmonkey

It slices! It dices! It makes mounds of delicious fruit salad!

And it goes good with cereal! Gotta slice em first. That’s why the apes invented the paring knife.

//

424 Egregious Philbin  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:16:25pm

re: #381 Sharmuta

Its a family name of mine to boot!

Up the Irish!

425 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:16:39pm
426 Bloodnok  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:16:41pm

re: #419 redc1c4

speaking of monkeys with tools, i was just at the post office…..

1 guy had a huge area in the parking lot blocked off so he could paint the stop blocks. the other guy, in a shirt and tie, was just standing there watching him.

our money @ w*rk.

In MA there would have been a police detail watching them both (police details are a HUGE problem in the state right now).

427 NYCHardhat  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:16:45pm

re: #409 opnion

Yeah, grinning about a bad economy! He must be a riot at funerals.

re: #411 USBeast

No. I was watching “A Clockwork Orange”. It made more sense to me now than it made when it was made.

I know, Right?

428 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:16:51pm

re: #419 redc1c4

speaking of monkeys with tools, i was just at the post office…..

1 guy had a huge area in the parking lot blocked off so he could paint the stop blocks. the other guy, in a shirt and tie, was just standing there watching him.

our money @ w*rk.

The guy watching, an government employed engineer. (oh, I’m going to get slammed)

429 Gus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:17:22pm

re: #422 OldLineTexan

You’ll note that they had a Lawgiver, but no Ape Creator.

Sound like RoP’ers* to me.

*Religion of Plantains

Religion of Plantains

I like it.

430 Kragar  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:17:37pm

re: #422 OldLineTexan

You’ll note that they had a Lawgiver, but no Ape Creator.

Sound like RoP’ers* to me.

*Religion of Plantains

Pearl Forrester was the Lawgiver

431 NYCHardhat  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:17:45pm
432 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:17:47pm

re: #428 Walter L. Newton

The guy watching, an government employed engineer. (oh, I’m going to get slammed)

Could’ve been a diversity expert.

433 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:17:54pm

re: #419 redc1c4

speaking of monkeys with tools, i was just at the post office…..

1 guy had a huge area in the parking lot blocked off so he could paint the stop blocks. the other guy, in a shirt and tie, was just standing there watching him.

our money @ w*rk.

They must have brought in an efficiency expert. Used to be 3 or 4 supervisors watching the guy work…..
/

434 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:18:11pm

re: #421 avanti

I turned away from the GOP because of the religious right’s influence. I voted for BHO in hopes that he would govern from the middle. If it turns out that he is a Commie, I screwed up. I’d rather we didn’t have the financial crisis to deal with, it’s custom made as a excuse to expand government.

why didn’t you know he is a commie before you voted?….drooling over his yakking skills and didn’t pay attention?

435 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:18:12pm

re: #421 avanti

I turned away from the GOP because of the religious right’s influence. I voted for BHO in hopes that he would govern from the middle. If it turns out that he is a Commie, I screwed up. I’d rather we didn’t have the financial crisis to deal with, it’s custom made as a excuse to expand government.

and yet you were stupid enough to vote for a asshole who announced that he would always use a “crisis” to advance his agenda. you’re lucky breathing is autonomic, ‘cause it sounds like you’re too dumb to remember on your own.

436 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:18:14pm
437 Last Mohican  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:18:27pm

re: #421 avanti

I voted for BHO in hopes that he would govern from the middle.

Was there something that he said that caused you to believe that he might do that? Was there anything that he has ever done that caused you to believe that? Did you have any reason whatsoever for thinking that he might do that?

438 Truck Monkey  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:18:36pm

re: #386 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How do you think 0bama would pronounce it?

Pawk eeeeh stawn.

439 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:18:51pm

re: #421 avanti

I turned away from the GOP because of the religious right’s influence. I voted for BHO in hopes that he would govern from the middle. If it turns out that he is a Commie, I screwed up. I’d rather we didn’t have the financial crisis to deal with, it’s custom made as a excuse to expand government.

That may have been the most honest statement you have ever made here on LGF.

Now, back to the slams, what was you first fucking clue, Sherlock?

440 NYCHardhat  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:18:56pm

re: #428 Walter L. Newton

The guy watching, an government employed engineer. (oh, I’m going to get slammed)

No. If I told you half of what I know….You may decide to sell oranges on the freeway.

441 Gus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:19:22pm

re: #419 redc1c4

speaking of monkeys with tools, i was just at the post office…..

1 guy had a huge area in the parking lot blocked off so he could paint the stop blocks. the other guy, in a shirt and tie, was just standing there watching him.

our money @ w*rk.

Typical. Around here you need three men to replace a simple street sign. Small “no parking sign.” I’ve seen it. One guy to install the sign. One guy to hold the ladder. And one guy to look around. With all of them either talking to each other or on their cell phone. Oh, and three vehicles.

442 opnion  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:19:29pm

re: #421 avanti

I turned away from the GOP because of the religious right’s influence. I voted for BHO in hopes that he would govern from the middle. If it turns out that he is a Commie, I screwed up. I’d rather we didn’t have the financial crisis to deal with, it’s custom made as a excuse to expand government.


Ya know I don’t know that he is a Commie, but I suspect that he might be. By his own admission he was mentored by Frank Marshall Davis & gravitated toward other Marxist’s
What is clear is that he is on the Socialist Left.

443 callahan23  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:19:32pm

re: #438 Truck Monkey

Pawk eeeeh stawn.

Sounds like a mule to me.

444 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:19:47pm

Lizard + shades = Impressive Chameleon

445 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:19:47pm

*sigh* Another avanti thread.

446 KingKenrod  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:19:58pm

re: #431 NYCHardhat

I can’t stop laughing.

I knew a guy, a fellow engineer who made good money, who never filed a tax return. He simply didn’t want to volunteer to give information to the government. He always made sure enough money was paid through withholding so he would never owe money.

447 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:20:01pm

re: #436 buzzsawmonkey

“It’s all part of the divine plan(tain).”

with jokes like that, you will be on the yam shortly.

448 Gus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:20:07pm

re: #436 buzzsawmonkey

“It’s all part of the divine plan(tain).”

Hence! The origin of the Plantations!

//

449 NYCHardhat  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:20:08pm

re: #441 Gus 802

Typical. Around here you need three men to replace a simple street sign. Small “no parking sign.” I’ve seen it. One guy to install the sign. One guy to hold the ladder. And one guy to look around. With all of them either talking to each other or on their cell phone. Oh, and three vehicles.

They also had to kill the entire morning waiting for their job briefing.

450 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:20:10pm

re: #439 Walter L. Newton

That may have been the most honest statement you have ever made here on LGF.

Now, back to the slams, what was you first fucking clue, Sherlock?

It was elementary?


/S

451 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:20:41pm

re: #445 Sharmuta

Not really.

452 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:20:42pm

re: #437 Last Mohican

Was there something that he said that caused you to believe that he might do that? Was there anything that he has ever done that caused you to believe that? Did you have any reason whatsoever for thinking that he might do that?

he was just hoping he would.

453 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:20:53pm

re: #440 NYCHardhat

No. If I told you half of what I know….You may decide to sell oranges on the freeway.

I worked for the DOE for 13 years, IT, I got to write 2 lines of code a month, all the other time was taken up with meetings, teaming, planning and going to special lunch events.

I swear, one person in our office must of had 3 birthdays a month.

454 callahan23  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:21:16pm

re: #448 Gus 802

Hence! The origin of the Plantations!

//

Whew, watch out there, che.

455 Gus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:21:19pm

re: #449 NYCHardhat

They also had to kill the entire morning waiting for their job briefing.

At least. That must have taken around 2 dozen bagels and 2 gallons of coffee. Then there’s the debriefing and the report.

456 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:21:19pm

re: #445 Sharmuta

*sigh* Another avanti thread.

It was rather an honest remark on his part. Better than most.

457 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:21:20pm

re: #444 Killgore Trout

That real? How cool!

458 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:21:40pm

re: #437 Last Mohican

Was there something that he said that caused you to believe that he might do that? Was there anything that he has ever done that caused you to believe that? Did you have any reason whatsoever for thinking that he might do that?

You’re wasting your time with Avanti.

459 Dianna  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:21:58pm

As always, an interesting discussion to dip in and out of. I’m sorry to part from you all, indeed, but I have errands before I head for home.

Take care!

460 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:22:20pm

I’m out of here in a few minutes. Had a tooth pulled today, happy pills in my pocket, going to see my girlfriend in the mountains, maybe snow tonight, so, cozy evening and I don’t have to drive back in the nasty weather.

461 Truck Monkey  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:22:42pm

re: #425 buzzsawmonkey

If you want to imagine government-provided health care, think of Post Office employees probing you with sharp tools.

I am sure that Government health care workers would treat us all with the kindness of MVA workers about 6 hours into their shift.

462 Bloodnok  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:22:54pm

re: #444 Killgore Trout

Lizard + shades = Impressive Chameleon

Incredibly cool. The chameleon doesn’t even see the color of the sunglasses but starts changing (I have heard that blind chameleons will still change color).

463 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:23:00pm

re: #440 NYCHardhat

No. If I told you half of what I know….You may decide to sell oranges on the freeway.

ORANGES!…where did you find those?…rip off a Federal shipment?re: #460 Walter L. Newton

I’m out of here in a few minutes. Had a tooth pulled today, happy pills in my pocket, going to see my girlfriend in the mountains, maybe snow tonight, so, cozy evening and I don’t have to drive back in the nasty weather.

hope you get a blizzard then

464 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:23:02pm

re: #460 Walter L. Newton

I’m out of here in a few minutes. Had a tooth pulled today, happy pills in my pocket, going to see my girlfriend in the mountains, maybe snow tonight, so, cozy evening and I don’t have to drive back in the nasty weather.

enjoy…………. why did the IRS want your gold filling?

465 NYCHardhat  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:23:10pm

re: #453 Walter L. Newton

I worked for the DOE for 13 years, IT, I got to write 2 lines of code a month, all the other time was taken up with meetings, teaming, planning and going to special lunch events.

I swear, one person in our office must of had 3 birthdays a month.

I know what you mean. I think I’ve been to meetings that discuss when/where meetings will be held.

466 USBeast  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:23:13pm

re: #427 NYCHardhat

I know, Right?

Right, right, right droog. ;)

467 Gus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:23:14pm

re: #454 callahan23

Whew, watch out there, che.

Yeah! I almost kept going with some primates in the story.

//Doh!

468 john_galt  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:23:18pm

Has anyone tried to get these in the same curriculum? This seems like a far better tactic than trying to fight one (well-backed) brand of non-science, especially since this brand is opposed to every other non-science version, yet merits no different treatment than the others.

magictails.com

cs.williams.edu

469 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:23:30pm

re: #421 avanti

470 NYCHardhat  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:24:05pm

re: #460 Walter L. Newton

I’m out of here in a few minutes. Had a tooth pulled today, happy pills in my pocket, going to see my girlfriend in the mountains, maybe snow tonight, so, cozy evening and I don’t have to drive back in the nasty weather.

Oh. pain pills and the girlfriend. I’m jealous.

471 avanti  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:24:16pm

re: #442 opnion

Ya know I don’t know that he is a Commie, but I suspect that he might be. By his own admission he was mentored by Frank Marshall Davis & gravitated toward other Marxist’s
What is clear is that he is on the Socialist Left.

I’d never argue that he was not a leftie, nor that the country has adopted some socialist concepts over the years, but the Commie crap is over the top, no matter how often repeated.

472 KingKenrod  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:24:21pm

re: #421 avanti

I turned away from the GOP because of the religious right’s influence. I voted for BHO in hopes that he would govern from the middle. If it turns out that he is a Commie, I screwed up. I’d rather we didn’t have the financial crisis to deal with, it’s custom made as a excuse to expand government.

The way Obama has used his rhetoric to turn anger over the AIG bonuses (something he is partially responsible for) into generalized anger at the wealthy is proof enough for me - it’s class warfare, pure Marxist tactic.

Case closed and commie is the verdict.

473 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:24:49pm

“Spread the wealth.”

Communist.

474 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:25:03pm
475 Gus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:25:03pm

re: #461 Truck Monkey

I am sure that Government health care workers would treat us all with the kindness of MVA workers about 6 hours into their shift.

Of like the NJ DMV?

“Alright, siddown! Now take your shirt off and shut up! Don’t give me any lip. Now sit der and don’t touch anythin. The doctor should be here in about 2 hours.”

//

476 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:25:07pm

AND a smug asshole, to boot.

477 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:25:11pm

re: #471 avanti

I’d never argue that he was not a leftie, nor that the country has adopted some socialist concepts over the years, but the Commie crap is over the top, no matter how often repeated.

you’re getting hosed

478 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:25:25pm

re: #471 avanti

horseshit.

479 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:25:37pm
480 NYCHardhat  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:25:38pm

re: #473 OldLineTexan

“Spread the wealth.”

Communist.

Yeah….what he said.

481 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:25:44pm

re: #474 Ojoe

Bald sunlight?

482 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:26:06pm

re: #477 albusteve

you’re getting hosed

that’s because he’s a hoser.

483 USBeast  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:26:09pm

re: #476 OldLineTexan

AND a smug asshole, to boot.

Excellent thought. Let’s boot the smug asshole.

484 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:26:21pm

Hello. I hope everyone here had a fine day, mine sucked.

485 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:26:26pm

re: #468 john_galt

It either hasn’t occurred to the creationists that they’re opening up a slippery slope or they don’t care.

486 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:26:34pm

re: #481 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

No hair on sunlight.

487 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:26:35pm

re: #471 avanti

I’d never argue that he was not a leftie, nor that the country has adopted some socialist concepts over the years, but the Commie crap is over the top, no matter how often repeated.

Ok. How about an authoritarian with a strong totalitarian, statist streak in him. Same fucking difference.

488 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:26:41pm

re: #484 Nevergiveup

Need a hug?

489 Last Mohican  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:26:55pm

re: #421 avanti

I voted for BHO in hopes that he would govern from the middle.

I’m sorry, this still just boggles my mind. McCain is the classic centrist. Maybe the last one left in major American politics. A man whose moderate political beliefs could easily have placed him in either of the two major parties, and made him a hated enemy of extremists on both sides of the political spectrum.

But you didn’t vote for him. You chose a former member of a socialist political party. A man whose political mentor was the leader of a revolutionary left-wing terrorist group that murdered dozens of innocent Americans while trying to replace the U.S. government with a communist one. A man whose personal and spiritual mentor was the leader of a radical left-wing racist hate group that supports terrorist groups like Hamas. That’s the one you thought would govern from the middle.

You, sir or madam, are a serious piece of work. Next time please leave the voting to people who have the ability to do elementary reasoning.

490 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:27:00pm

The auto button ate my post..
Hey! I want my post back! It was the most brilliant thing anyone has ever posted in any blog! And it just went poof!
/

491 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:27:06pm

re: #485 Sharmuta

It either hasn’t occurred to the creationists that they’re opening up a slippery slope or they don’t care.

well, since they’re not smart enough to think clearly, i’d say the answer is obvious.

492 callahan23  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:27:10pm

re: #467 Gus 802

Yeah! I almost kept going with some primates in the story.

//Doh!

It is so addictive to monkey around until one runs into the bushes.
Or is it jungle?
Confused, what was it I wanted to say?

493 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:27:12pm

re: #486 Ojoe

No hair on sunlight.

Never heard the expression before.

494 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:27:18pm
495 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:27:29pm

re: #478 redc1c4

horseshit.

Horse shit is good for fertilizers, commie bastard are good for nothing!

496 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:27:34pm

re: #484 Nevergiveup

Winston Churchill said “If you are going through hell keep going.”

497 NYCHardhat  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:27:35pm

re: #471 avanti

I’d never argue that he was not a leftie, nor that the country has adopted some socialist concepts over the years, but the Commie crap is over the top, no matter how often repeated.

I love how its not communism, its wealth redistribution. Clintonian linguistics.

498 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:27:53pm

re: #457 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That real? How cool!

I wonder. I always thought that there were certain colors that chameleons couldn’t do. Maybe I’m wrong.

499 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:27:59pm

re: #490 HoosierHoops

The auto button ate my post..
Hey! I want my post back! It was the most brilliant thing anyone has ever posted in any blog! And it just went poof!
/

Perhaps you should write a tribute to it.

500 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:28:11pm

re: #482 redc1c4

that’s because he’s a hoser.

He’s from Indiana?

/S

501 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:28:15pm

re: #488 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Need a hug?

Well depends from who, but I am just about to get a shot of booze to take the edge off.

502 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:28:23pm
503 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:28:27pm

re: #489 Last Mohican

I’m sorry, this still just boggles my mind. McCain is the classic centrist. Maybe the last one left in major American politics. A man whose moderate political beliefs could easily have placed him in either of the two major parties, and made him a hated enemy of extremists on both sides of the political spectrum.

But you didn’t vote for him. You chose a former member of a socialist political party. A man whose political mentor was the leader of a revolutionary left-wing terrorist group that murdered dozens of innocent Americans while trying to replace the U.S. government with a communist one. A man whose personal and spiritual mentor was the leader of a radical left-wing racist hate group that supports terrorist groups like Hamas. That’s the one you thought would govern from the middle.

You, sir or madam, are a serious piece of work. Next time please leave the voting to people who have the ability to do elementary reasoning.

just because it deserves to be read twice.

avanti, you are an ignorant idiot.

504 doppelganglander  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:28:32pm

re: #339 HoosierHoops

Ohh.I didn’t see what you posted..I, unfortunately, was responding to Avanti.
Tonight this will be become an Avanti thread like every other one he posts in.
I wish he could post sometimes that doesn’t wrap himself in a coat of this is about me and my opinions and egging on people to Talk about what he posts. It gets old.
You’re in an ID Thread now Avanti..Shut up and learn something this time…

You’re on your own with Avanti. I’ve got a couple of errands to run. Later, lizards!

505 avanti  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:28:49pm

re: #482 redc1c4

that’s because he’s a hoser.

OK, discussion time with the leftie is over for a bit, it’s just name calling time again. I need to tidy up my around Obama shrine :)

506 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:28:52pm

re: #493 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It may be rare, but I don’t think I made it up.

507 Gus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:29:03pm

re: #492 callahan23

It is so addictive to monkey around until one runs into the bushes.
Or is it jungle?
Confused, what was it I wanted to say?

I don’t know. Something about foliage.

//

508 outsidephilly  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:29:06pm

re: #474 Ojoe

The San Gabriel Mountains in the bald sunlight of mid day.


Hello Ojoe!

Thanks for sharing the view!

509 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:29:09pm

re: #496 Ojoe

Winston Churchill said “If you are going through hell keep going.”

And I am sure he was imbibing some when he made that sojourn.

510 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:29:13pm

re: #490 HoosierHoops

The auto button ate my post..
Hey! I want my post back! It was the most brilliant thing anyone has ever posted in any blog! And it just went poof!
/

that’s okay…. i already posted the same thing last night…..

%-)

511 debutaunt  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:29:32pm

re: #409 opnion

Yeah, grinning about a bad economy! He must be a riot at funerals.

Fist-bumping corpses seems to crack him up.

512 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:29:33pm

re: #485 Sharmuta

It either hasn’t occurred to the creationists that they’re opening up a slippery slope or they don’t care.

I don’t think they are savvy enough to understand the national implications of their movement….I just think they are narrow minded and dull witted

513 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:29:49pm

re: #500 Dustyvet

He’s from Indiana?

/S

take off, eh.

514 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:30:21pm

re: #508 outsidephilly

You are welcome. I’ll keep an eye on it for the sunset, if it is good I’ll post it.

515 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:30:54pm

re: #496 Ojoe

Winston Churchill said “If you are going through hell keep going.”

When you get to a fork in the road? Take it!

Yogi Berra

516 NYCHardhat  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:31:00pm

re: #505 avanti

OK, discussion time with the leftie is over for a bit, it’s just name calling time again. I need to tidy up my around Obama shrine :)


It isn’t name calling. He wants to take money from one group and give it to another.

517 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:31:27pm

re: #516 NYCHardhat

It isn’t name calling. He wants to take money from one group and give it to another.

i think i hurt it’s feeling.

518 Last Mohican  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:31:36pm

re: #497 NYCHardhat

I love how its not communism, its wealth redistribution. Clintonian linguistics.

Now it’s “tax relief.”

That’s literally the term that the Democratic party is using to describe the process of handing someone else’s tax money to a person who never paid taxes in the first place. “Tax relief.”

519 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:31:39pm

Israel Defense Forces soldiers used an 11-year-old Palestinian boy as a human shield during the war against Hamas in the Gaza Strip, a group of UN human rights experts said Monday.

haaretz.com

Their no even original? This is a pretty old blood libel.

520 outsidephilly  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:31:41pm

re: #514 Ojoe

You are welcome. I’ll keep an eye on it for the sunset, if it is good I’ll post it.


That’s mighty kind of you! We don’t get views like that ‘outside of philly’!

521 USBeast  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:31:47pm

Ye Olde Beastie needs sustenance. Back later.

522 callahan23  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:31:54pm

re: #507 Gus 802

I don’t know. Something about foliage.

//

Sorry, I was out of my depth. Had a hard day lecturing adults. Gah. That combined with atrocious weather makes for a warped mind.
Salutos.

523 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:32:23pm

I wonder how much of all the indoctrination- from the left and the right- would be headed off if we put the teaching of Logic back in the schools.

524 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:33:04pm

i should get some w*rk done around the house too, and dinner started.

until later.

/kicks avanti one more time, for good measure.

525 NYCHardhat  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:33:08pm

re: #517 redc1c4

i think i hurt it’s feeling.

What chaps my ass is this guy served his country in the US Navy and has no brain.

526 Gus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:33:14pm

re: #522 callahan23

Sorry, I was out of my depth. Had a hard day lecturing adults. Gah. That combined with atrocious weather makes for a warped mind.
Salutos.

No problem. Salut!

527 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:33:28pm

re: #525 NYCHardhat

What chaps my ass is this guy served his country in the US Navy and has no brain.

must have been an officer. %-)

528 opnion  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:33:29pm

re: #471 avanti

I’d never argue that he was not a leftie, nor that the country has adopted some socialist concepts over the years, but the Commie crap is over the top, no matter how often repeated.

I am not calling him that, but I hold open that he might be.
Why is it so over the top to believe that a Communist may actually have been elected?
Castro was thought to be a Democrat until he came down from the Mountains & took control

529 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:33:37pm

re: #523 Sharmuta

I wonder how much of all the indoctrination- from the left and the right- would be headed off if we put the teaching of Logic back in the schools.

Which is precisely why the leftist dominated education establishment will never let that happen. It’s kryptonite to them.

530 NYCHardhat  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:34:01pm

re: #527 redc1c4

must have been an officer. %-)

ouch!

531 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:34:08pm

re: #527 redc1c4

must have been an officer. %-)

Should I be insulted by that?

532 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:34:30pm

re: #525 NYCHardhat

What chaps my ass is this guy served his country in the US Navy and has no brain.

Are we sure it was the US Navy?

533 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:34:36pm

re: #531 Nevergiveup

Should I be insulted by that?

you’re asking a career E-4 that question?

534 opnion  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:34:49pm

re: #511 debutaunt

Fist-bumping corpses seems to crack him up.

That is a beautiful quip!

535 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:34:55pm

re: #527 redc1c4

must have been an officer. %-)

Hey!

536 Gus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:34:56pm

re: #532 LGoPs

Are we sure it was the US Navy?

CCCP

537 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:35:04pm

re: #529 LGoPs

Which is precisely why the leftist dominated education establishment will never let that happen. It’s kryptonite to them.

Don’t think for a second the creationist right would welcome it either. Interesting how Freedom and Reason seem to have a lot of common enemies.

538 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:35:31pm

Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear considerable watching.”

Army Officers Guide

539 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:35:44pm

re: #533 redc1c4

you’re asking a career E-4 that question?

I never had an E-anything saying anything bad about me when they were in my dental chair?
/

540 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:36:15pm

re: #532 LGoPs

Are we sure it was the US Navy?

maybe it was the Central African Republic or Switzerland?

541 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:36:24pm

Stimulus? U.S. to buy Chinese condoms, ending Alabama jobs


mcclatchydc.com

542 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:36:47pm
543 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:36:52pm

re: #538 redc1c4

Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear considerable watching.”

Army Officers Guide

Where in the world are you getting that? From the 1800’s? If ever.

544 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:37:08pm

re: #541 Dustyvet

Stimulus? U.S. to buy Chinese condoms, ending Alabama jobs

[Link: www.mcclatchydc.com…]

There is a size joke there I imagine?

545 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:37:08pm

re: #539 Nevergiveup

I never had an E-anything saying anything bad about me when they were in my dental chair?
/

that’s okay, i never had an officer give me crap in my arms room either. %-)

546 NYCHardhat  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:37:45pm

re: #533 redc1c4

you’re asking a career E-4 that question?

E-4? Fuck that. E-Pro.

547 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:38:29pm

re: #546 NYCHardhat

E-4? Fuck that. E-Pro.

I love Beck. That song was co-written by the Beastie Boys.

548 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:38:37pm

re: #543 LGoPs

Where in the world are you getting that? From the 1800’s? If ever.

yup….. but i served with more than a few who acted like they still had that in the book. i derived much pleasure from my interactions with that type, and dented several careers in the process.

549 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:39:12pm

and now i really gotta go: see whoever is around for the LNDT!

550 Bloodnok  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:39:25pm

re: #523 Sharmuta

I wonder how much of all the indoctrination- from the left and the right- would be headed off if we put the teaching of Logic back in the schools.

I agree with you. I grew up in the 80’s after Logic stopped being taught (at least where I grew up). After a year and a half at LGF I feel as though I have been given quite an education in critical thinking and argument tactics. I always thought the course sounded like such waste. I was wrong.

551 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:39:29pm

re: #545 redc1c4

that’s okay, i never had an officer give me crap in my arms room either. %-)

OK, I’ll give ya that one. And in 2 weeks I am getting some shooting in with the Senior Chief. It’s good to be tight with the most important person in the Unit.

552 NYCHardhat  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:39:41pm

re: #547 Sharmuta

I love Beck. That song was co-written by the Beastie Boys.

Really? It does have a Beasties feel to it.

553 Gus  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:40:24pm

In the Navy

Youtube Video

//

554 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:40:35pm

re: #552 NYCHardhat

Really? It does have a Beasties feel to it.

It’s true- I read the song credits. IIRC- they’re also preforming on that song.

555 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:41:13pm

re: #550 Bloodnok

I agree with you. I grew up in the 80’s after Logic stopped being taught (at least where I grew up). After a year and a half at LGF I feel as though I have been given quite an education in critical thinking and argument tactics. I always thought the course sounded like such waste. I was wrong.

LGF is one of the best educational resources I’ve ever come across.

556 NYCHardhat  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:41:43pm

re: #554 Sharmuta

It’s true- I read the song credits. IIRC- they’re also preforming on that song.

Good to know. Also good to know you have the best musical taste…because you are reading my mind.

557 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:43:18pm

“Drill, Baby, Drill” could lead to Civil War
—Jack M.

says out-of-touch member of Congress, Rep. Jay Inslee (D-Washington).

ace.mu.nu

How many armored divisions of fuel cell powered Prius-M1 Abrams hybrids does the Washington State Army Reserve own, anyway?

558 Last Mohican  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:43:22pm

re: #471 avanti

I’d never argue that he was not a leftie, nor that the country has adopted some socialist concepts over the years, but the Commie crap is over the top, no matter how often repeated.

I agree with that. So while you were “not arguing that he was not a leftie,” and perhaps even realizing that he was two orders of magnitude farther to the left than any other presidential candidate ever fielded by any major American party, you were simultaneously “hoping that he would govern from the middle?”

Now I don’t even care who you vote for. Please just take it all back and say “I voted for Obama because I thought America had veered too far to the right, and would benefit from the far-left perspective for a change.” Because that would be a perfectly valid opinion. And the alternative, that you really are as stupid as you sound, is too upsetting for me.

559 NYCHardhat  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:43:30pm

re: #554 Sharmuta

It’s true- I read the song credits. IIRC- they’re also preforming on that song.

If you don’t mind me asking Sharm…what generation are you? boomer? x? y? obama?

560 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:43:31pm

re: #425 buzzsawmonkey

If you want to imagine government-provided health care, think of Post Office employees probing you with sharp tools.

We don’t have to imagine it. Go look at any VA hospital, then multiply the errors, inefficiencies and waste by about three order of magnitude when scaled up to service a whole nation. Their main metric for tracking “quality of care” is the number of toes gnawed off by rats.

561 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:43:32pm

Really shouldn’t spend so much time at home (was off today)…the dog is looking at me afraid I may eat him too.

562 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:43:38pm

re: #548 redc1c4

yup….. but i served with more than a few who acted like they still had that in the book. i derived much pleasure from my interactions with that type, and dented several careers in the process.

There were and are shitbirds in all ranks. The most important lesson to remember is that life is a two way street. If you expect loyalty and respect, you have to return it.
That’s what my Manual says.

563 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:44:21pm

re: #561 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Really shouldn’t spend so much time at home (was off today)…the dog is looking at me afraid I may eat him too.

His name isn’t cupcake is it?
:)

564 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:44:28pm

re: #559 NYCHardhat

I’m “28”.

565 callahan23  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:44:40pm

re: #561 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Really shouldn’t spend so much time at home (was off today)…the dog is looking at me afraid I may eat him too.


Doesn’t he know you are a vegetarian?!?

566 NYCHardhat  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:45:09pm

re: #564 Sharmuta

I’m “28”.

I believe you. ;)

567 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:46:31pm

re: #564 Sharmuta

I’m “28”.

she’s a woman…she’s lying

568 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:46:59pm
569 debutaunt  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:47:54pm

re: #564 Sharmuta

I’m “28”.

In Smurftime - me too!

570 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:48:00pm

My post to Avanti was very basic..He states he left the GOP because of the influence of the Religious Right.
Personally..I’ve never voted for the GOP on Religious issues..My religion and politics have a 1000 ft fence separating them.
But you..Ran to the party of the unpatriotic..tin foil hats..Kids posting on DKos..Bush is Hitler..Pelosi..The most liberal Senator elected president..
And you claim you wished Obama would rule from the middle..
Are you really just a comedy writer in real life?

571 Salamantis  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:48:16pm

re: #564 Sharmuta

I’m “28”.

Age or birth date?

/ducks and runs like Hell

572 albusteve  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:48:33pm

re: #569 debutaunt

In Smurftime - me too!

ahahaha…..there it is then

573 LGoPs  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:48:45pm

re: #564 Sharmuta

I’m “28”.

I’m “7 and a half”………..


in dog years.
:)

574 freetoken  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:48:57pm

re: #420 Sharmuta

In my view, it’s possible to have both ideological purity and diversity if the ideology welcomes diverse groups with a common theme- that of supporting individual rights. Goldwater conservatism needs to come back to the fore.

Even Goldwater though, based on his discourses later in life, likely would not be accepted by many in today’s GOP.

Raising Goldwater though does, IMO, get to the heart of one of the real problems and causes of why the GOP and America is struggling with political identity. Anti-communism was the heart beat of so much GOP politics from Nixon-Goldwater-Reagan, that the welcoming into the GOP of the formerly Democrat social-conservatives who were stringent anti-communists change the complexion of American politics. The older GOP, which was socially libertarian (out west) or even, dare I say it, progressive (East coast), was gradually supplanted by more conservatively religious minded people.

Yes, all too often if one wants to raise issues from a different view the tag of “RINO” gets tossed out.

Given the economic and national security (even national identity) issues that hang over us, the wrestling with modernity vs anti-modernists (which is what this creationism debate expands to) will likely not get addressed up front, but will try to be swept under the rug.

575 callahan23  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:49:44pm

re: #568 Iron Fist

You are only as old as you feel. After 600, I quit counting :-)


Dragula - Rob Zombie
Youtube Video

576 rightymouse  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:50:21pm

re: #471 avanti

I’d never argue that he was not a leftie, nor that the country has adopted some socialist concepts over the years, but the Commie crap is over the top, no matter how often repeated.

Here - let me make it simple for you.

“To each according to their need, from each according to their ability”.

Here’s the million dollar question for you.

Is this in the U.S. constitution or Karl Marx?

577 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:56:04pm
578 Querent  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 3:57:14pm

re: #523 Sharmuta

dumploads.

579 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:03:20pm

re: #574 freetoken

There is no doubt in my mind that Goldwater would be considered the ultimate RINO by today’s social conservative republicans. The irony is, of course, that the man they hold up as the model republican is Reagan, who was a Goldwater conservative, and was really launched nationally because Senator Goldwater made it happen.

Ultimately, I think this is an issue that could take decades to solve. The left has been working on their indoctrination since the late 60s and it’s obviously entrenched from the schools to the media. How creationism is supposed to turn that back- I’m still trying to figure out. I’d rather see conservative values like individual liberties make their way back into the ideological battlefield because I think it comes down to individualism vs. collectivism. And perhaps therein lies the rub- it’s hard to get individualists to work collectively towards something. It goes against their nature.

580 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:03:40pm

Here come the down-dingers.

581 lostlakehiker  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:03:50pm

re: #247 avanti

How do you lose the Creationist’s without losing a big chunk of the base or if you have to keep them, how can you win votes outside the base ?
It’s a problem that may well solve itself as the country becomes more secular, but that could be a decade or more.

The country might not become more secular. Hard times make for a return to solace that requires no material base. Hard times enforce the old-time discipline. This doesn’t mean that creationists will gain converts, because there are other robust, attractive faith communities out there recruiting. But they might.

I think you gain the votes of creationists despite refusing to enact their school agenda by appealing to shared purpose on other fronts. Creationists have meager overlap in their public purpose with the public purpose of democrats. Relieving poverty might be one such overlap, but the democrats may prove yet again to be singularly inept in translating this purpose into concrete achievements.

So where do the creationists go? A third party will backfire. Voting democrat is an option that will be attractive only if the democrats succeed in some measure at fixing the economy, and if the democrats can do that, they won’t need creationists to vote democrat, or even to stay home, come the next few elections. If the fixes now in the works prove to be no better than leeches and emetics and poultices in the days when medicine was mostly quackery, the democrats can be beaten, and we conservatives who value separation of church and state will have our chance to earn and carry the creationist vote and win elections.

582 Querent  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:06:39pm

re: #579 Sharmuta

And perhaps therein lies the rub- it’s hard to get individualists to work collectively towards something. It goes against their nature.

It’s kind of like herding cats.

583 Bloodnok  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:07:04pm

re: #580 Charles

Here come the down-dingers.

I love how people who will not comment and will not come out when challenged still wait until a new thread is up to downding an ID thread. Hey, they “might” have just gotten here late, but it happens every time.

584 callahan23  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:07:12pm

re: #577 Iron FistThanks, ;-)

585 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:09:30pm

re: #379 Gus 802


Common sense tells me that this probably was the case as you state throughout human history. In light of the leftist majority in a academia today it is logical that it would follow that the censure would come from a leftist one point of view, or another. Changes in ideological temperament within academia throughout history would indicate the political point of view of the academic majority.

That’s life. We don’t need more laws to define it.

586 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:09:41pm

re: #581 lostlakehiker

I think the only reason some on the religious right don’t vote democrat is because of abortion. They certainly don’t have an issue with spending money like a liberal on their pet projects.

I mean really- other than abortion and creationism, what’s the difference between a liberal who wants us to live the way they think we should and a member of the RR who thinks we should live the way they think we should?

587 rightymouse  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:12:34pm

re: #579 Sharmuta

There is no doubt in my mind that Goldwater would be considered the ultimate RINO by today’s social conservative republicans. The irony is, of course, that the man they hold up as the model republican is Reagan, who was a Goldwater conservative, and was really launched nationally because Senator Goldwater made it happen.

Ultimately, I think this is an issue that could take decades to solve. The left has been working on their indoctrination since the late 60s and it’s obviously entrenched from the schools to the media. How creationism is supposed to turn that back- I’m still trying to figure out. I’d rather see conservative values like individual liberties make their way back into the ideological battlefield because I think it comes down to individualism vs. collectivism. And perhaps therein lies the rub- it’s hard to get individualists to work collectively towards something. It goes against their nature.

One of the other things I’ve been thinking about is how much we’ve been playing defense to the agendas set by the Donks, especially with gay marriage, abortion, etc. Those are leftist agendas. We need to set our own agendas based on principles/ideology that work, not get muddled up in Donk ideology.

588 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:15:07pm

re: #587 rightymouse

One of the other things I’ve been thinking about is how much we’ve been playing defense to the agendas set by the Donks, especially with gay marriage, abortion, etc. Those are leftist agendas. We need to set our own agendas based on principles/ideology that work, not get muddled up in Donk ideology.

Which is one of the reasons why I feel we should drop some of these issues and focus on what is really meant by individual liberties. Coupled with fiscal responsibility, I think we’d find a larger audience for our message.

589 rightymouse  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:15:42pm

re: #588 Sharmuta

Which is one of the reasons why I feel we should drop some of these issues and focus on what is really meant by individual liberties. Coupled with fiscal responsibility, I think we’d find a larger audience for our message.

A gazillion updings. :)

590 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:17:07pm

re: #589 rightymouse

Some days I think- “give me two hours with Michael Steele”.

591 Achilles Tang  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:17:20pm

re: #408 fish

Well that is the rub, isn’t it? I can show you data that is very convincing that mankind is THE cause of climate change and that it cannot be argued. I can show you other data that proves fairly conclusively that climate change is occurring as part of a natural cycle. So who is to judge what evidence is right and what is wrong? I don’t have that answer.

However, evidence is not and can not be: “It is written so it must be”

My point is simply that as soon as you attempt to legislate equality of opinions the majority will win and the majority does not win Nobel prizes.

The alternative is messy, but so is reality.

592 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:22:09pm
593 rightymouse  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:22:30pm

As human beings, do we prosper more under statism or individual liberty to make the most of our abilities?

It’s the latter because it’s the nature of humans. The state can never and will never compensate for what humans can achieve without the yoke of the state around their necks.

594 rightymouse  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:24:12pm

re: #590 Sharmuta

Some days I think- “give me two hours with Michael Steele”.

Yep. Have been thinking about that a lot too.

595 Emerald  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:25:39pm

re: #363 SixDegrees

That might be a lucrative way to fund my retirement. Their money would do a lot more good in my pocket than it ever would in theirs.

I was really tempted to come up with some whacked out ideas for the last election and sell crap to the Democratic base. Peace in our lifetime bracelets, Close Gitmo power chakra crystal doodads and the like. I probably would have made a killing if I could have lived with myself.

596 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:27:51pm

re: #594 rightymouse

I’m considering contacting some of my connected republican friends, and seeing what kind of an audience we can get. Really- this nonsense has to stop and if Steele doesn’t grasp this opportunity to return the party to at least it’s fiscal roots, we’re done.

597 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:28:03pm
598 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:31:14pm

re: #157 doppelganglander


All terrific press for Orion, except that Obama kept pronouncing the company’s name wrong, calling it OAR-ee-on.

OAR-ee-on. Is that like newk-YUH-ler?

I forget, which one is mockable and which one is excusable?

599 rightymouse  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:33:02pm

re: #596 Sharmuta

I’m considering contacting some of my connected republican friends, and seeing what kind of an audience we can get. Really- this nonsense has to stop and if Steele doesn’t grasp this opportunity to return the party to at least it’s fiscal roots, we’re done.

I’m going to do the same with the Rep folks who were working on the 2008 campaign. Steele’s probably being torn in a number of directions right now - clean ideology vs Beltway politics vs contributors vs Gingrich vs playing Donk defense. Will let you know.

600 Bloodnok  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:38:41pm

re: #596 Sharmuta

I’m considering contacting some of my connected republican friends, and seeing what kind of an audience we can get. Really- this nonsense has to stop and if Steele doesn’t grasp this opportunity to return the party to at least it’s fiscal roots, we’re done.

September can’t come fast enough when I can be done with this lease and move up to NH to get involved in the GOP up there. It doesn’t mean I will be inactive until then, but I can really start being effective when I’m up there. Thanks to Loppy for getting me contacts and you for inspiring me to become involved (seriously -your posts during the Pres. campaign).

601 Timbre  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:41:08pm

This is a copy of the e-mail I just sent to my Texas State Board of Education:

I am respectfully imploring all Texas State Board of Education members to reject the creationist agenda of Chairman Don McLeroy and vote NO to any change to our state science curriculum which shadows the facts of evolution with the theology of creationism. The Book of Genesis is not science and has no place in publicly funded schools. Religious doctrines should be taught only in religious/private schools. Thank you for your consideration of this important matter.

602 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:41:43pm

re: #600 Bloodnok

It means a lot to me when people tell me I’ve been of some assistance to them, so thank you very much for that. :)

603 rightymouse  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:44:14pm

re: #600 Bloodnok

September can’t come fast enough when I can be done with this lease and move up to NH to get involved in the GOP up there. It doesn’t mean I will be inactive until then, but I can really start being effective when I’m up there. Thanks to Loppy for getting me contacts and you for inspiring me to become involved (seriously -your posts during the Pres. campaign).


Good for you. Reps tend to live by the belief “live and let live”, so they are not typically active politically. Notice how our recent tea party protests have been mature, non-violent, polite and friendly vs the immature silliness of the lefties when they protest.

We need to get active now.

604 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:46:37pm

This is a big, big deal. This IS Obummer’s First Test: China calls for new reserve currency

Continue on.

605 Bloodnok  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 4:57:23pm

re: #603 rightymouse

Good for you. Reps tend to live by the belief “live and let live”, so they are not typically active politically. Notice how our recent tea party protests have been mature, non-violent, polite and friendly vs the immature silliness of the lefties when they protest.

We need to get active now.

I feel like NH can still be saved and returned to its NE Yankee (gov’t stay the hell out of my business) roots. People are fleeing Mass. to go to NH for a reason, and it’s a fiscal one. We just need to win them over once they get there. And if I can say I helped get Jeanne Shaheen out of the Senate when her term is up I will consider the endeavor a great success.

606 rightymouse  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:01:09pm

re: #605 Bloodnok

I feel like NH can still be saved and returned to its NE Yankee (gov’t stay the hell out of my business) roots. People are fleeing Mass. to go to NH for a reason, and it’s a fiscal one. We just need to win them over once they get there. And if I can say I helped get Jeanne Shaheen out of the Senate when her term is up I will consider the endeavor a great success.

You go for it! Will cheer you on every step of the way! :)

607 Bloodnok  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:02:33pm

re: #606 rightymouse

You go for it! Will cheer you on every step of the way! :)

Thanks! I’d be interested to know how many Lizards are involved in the GOP in some capacity. There should be a GOP Lizards mailing list!

608 rightymouse  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:16:38pm

re: #607 Bloodnok

Thanks! I’d be interested to know how many Lizards are involved in the GOP in some capacity. There should be a GOP Lizards mailing list!

Am very careful about those types of mailing lists. I’d join it if the list was headed by a respected vetter and we kept it private.

Sharmuta? :)

609 rightymouse  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:17:51pm

re: #604 aboo-Hoo-Hoo

This is a big, big deal. This IS Obummer’s First Test: China calls for new reserve currency

Continue on.


Wasn’t Putin making noises about the same thing?

610 hazzyday  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:18:09pm

From page 17 of the Texas GOP platform:

Theories of Origin – We support objective teaching and equal treatment of strengths and weaknesses of scientific theories, including Intelligent
Design. We believe theories of life origins and environmental theories should be taught as scientific theory, not scientific law. Teachers and students
should be able to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of these theories openly and without fear of retribution or discrimination of any kind.

611 Bloodnok  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:20:41pm

re: #608 rightymouse

Am very careful about those types of mailing lists. I’d join it if the list was headed by a respected vetter and we kept it private.

Sharmuta? :)

This is true. We’re all here and we have access to each other’s posts and minds. That should be enough!

612 rightymouse  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:21:19pm

re: #610 hazzyday

From page 17 of the Texas GOP platform:

Oh, brother. Such nonsense. How did the GOP stray so far?

On that note, I’m going to cuddle with my evolved testosterone units on the couch and watch some telly.

Later!

613 hazzyday  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:25:36pm

Washington State GoP platform on Education. Less thought out than Texas.

SECTION 6: EDUCATION

The primary authority and responsibility for educating children resides with parents. School boards should be free to determine priorities, emphasizing basic skills such as reading, writing, and mathematics. It is also important that schools teach the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, civics, history, economics and provide opportunities for vocational and technical training. As public teachers and professors are in a position of power and paid by taxpayers, it is important that instructors educate but do not indoctrinate their students. We believe that competition in education, as it does in business, commerce, healthcare, and other free-market endeavors would result in wider choices, higher quality, more innovation, more efficiency, and lower costs.

I can’t help when reading the websites of the GoP organizations that they are behind the times on the internet. I think Obama treats the internet like the golden apple and the Gop treats the internet like the ugly runt of the litter.

614 hazzyday  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:28:46pm

These days I don’t see the need for textbooks from Texas. With the internet you can publish your own books online. They could just have a big drupal content management system. One for each subject and they will end up with a teachers wiki. Then just print from there. Each country could present their own history. Microsoft can afford to make an internet High School.

615 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:34:17pm
616 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:34:26pm

re: #20 lawhawk

President Bush read My Pet Goat /make room!

My Pet Goat has evolutionary implications?

617 hazzyday  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:34:36pm

Atrocious GoP site of the day Don’t see a mention of ID on it though.

618 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:51:29pm

re: #617 hazzyday

Atrocious GoP site of the day Don’t see a mention of ID on it though.

Republicans in Iowa have already pushed an ID bill. (It’s dead, though.)

619 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:53:43pm

Understanding Evolution lawsuit over

On March 23, 2009, the Supreme Court denied certiorari without comment to Caldwell v. Caldwell, which challenged the constitutionality of the Understanding Evolution website — a joint project of the University of California Museum of Paleontology and the National Center for Science Education. The San Francisco Chronicle (March 23, 2009) reports, “One page on Cal’s 840-page ‘Understanding Evolution’ web site says Darwinism can be compatible with religion. The four-year-old suit by Jeanne Caldwell said the government-funded web site contradicts her religious belief about the incompatibility of religion and Darwinism and amounts to a state position on religious doctrine that violates the Constitutional separation of church and state.”

Caldwell filed suit in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California in 2005. But her suit was dismissed in 2006 because she failed to allege that she had federal taxpayer standing, failed to sufficiently allege state taxpayer standing, and failed to establish that she suffered a concrete “injury in fact.” When she appealed the decision, the appellate court’s decision concluded, “Accordingly, we believe there is too slight a connection between Caldwell’s generalized grievance, and the government conduct about which she complains, to sustain her standing to proceed.” Reacting to the Supreme Court’s decision not to hear the case, a lawyer for the University of California told the Chronicle, “We believe the lower court rulings were correct, and we’re glad this ends the matter.”

This suit was previously covered at LGF.

620 Haverwilde  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 5:57:17pm

re: #588 Sharmuta

Which is one of the reasons why I feel we should drop some of these issues and focus on what is really meant by individual liberties. Coupled with fiscal responsibility, I think we’d find a larger audience for our message.


It will be easier to drop the GOP and start over.
There is already too much stigma (stench) associated with the large government wing of the Grand Old Party. So it either needs a cleansing like nothing before in our history, or we need to begin anew.
I have begun to explore what options my state has for establishing a new party. And set it up so that it can be aligned with any National third party that develops ‘legs.’ (I have looked at the Whig party, their platform is okay. But if it doesn’t develop nationally another party may.)

621 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 10:41:23pm
622 Salamantis  Mon, Mar 23, 2009 10:51:56pm

re: #621 azkidney

If the creationism-in-public-schools lobby wasn’t spending so much of their time and effort trying to shoehorn their pet religious dogmas into public high school science classes, it wouldn’t be necessary for us to spend our own time and effort trying to protect, preserve and defend the integrity of public school science education.

Complain to them.

623 hazzyday  Tue, Mar 24, 2009 12:32:15am

re: #621 azkidney

You sound like you are tired like Barack. Problems are problems. They need to be solved. You are saying you wouldn’t tie your shoes, or fix a leaky roof, or repair a highway because your perception of a problem isn’t big enough? Your life principles need overhauling.


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