‘Proud Racist’ Threatened to Blow Up Mosques

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A member of the neo-Nazi National Front in Glasgow decided to put some of that rabble-rousing anti-Islam populist rhetoric into action, by allegedly threatening to murder Muslims and blow up mosques.

A man has admitted he threatened to blow up Glasgow Central Mosque and execute a Muslim a day unless all Mosques in Scotland were closed.

Neil MacGregor, 36, who described himself as a “racist”, made the threats after watching an internet video of a British hostage being beheaded in Iraq. Glasgow Sheriff Court heard that he sent an email to Strathclyde Police and made a threatening phone call.

He telephoned and emailed Strathclyde Police to make the threats from a flat in Glasgow, between 30 January and 15 February 2007.

The court heard that the email read: “I’m a proud racist and National Front member. We as an organisation have decided to deal with the current threat from Muslims in our own British way, like our proud ancestors.

“Our demands are very small. Close all mosques in Scotland. If our demands aren’t met by next Friday, we’ll kidnap one Muslim and execute him or her on the internet, just like they did to our Ken Bigley.”

MacGregor then followed up the email with a call threatening to blow up Central Mosque.

(Hat tip: Killgore.)

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212 comments
1 VegasRick  Sat, May 2, 2009 8:50:52am

Morning Charles, I am going to be very careful on this thread.

2 soccerdad  Sat, May 2, 2009 8:51:24am

well, that certainly is a good way to get caught. good thing the people dumb enough to be raging racists generally out themselves.

3 soccerdad  Sat, May 2, 2009 8:51:52am

re: #1 VegasRick

why's that rick?

4 doppelganglander  Sat, May 2, 2009 8:52:16am

He was just begging to get arrested, wasn't he? What a numbnuts.

5 VegasRick  Sat, May 2, 2009 8:52:42am

re: #3 soccerdad

why's that rick?

Not sure which ones I dislike more.

6 Taqyia2Me  Sat, May 2, 2009 8:53:29am

re: #1 VegasRick

Morning Charles, I am going to be very careful on this thread.

Ditto for me!

7 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 2, 2009 8:54:26am

Crazy Pam pointed out that the NF hates the BNP as proof that the BNP aren't EuroNazis. In reality the two groups hate each other because they compete for membership.

9 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 8:54:28am

Tolerance! Thing is the nazis and the islamofascists are the different sides of the same coin. Our way or else!

10 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 2, 2009 8:54:32am

Lovely.

So we're going to start the day by being sympathetic to a neo-Nazi?

11 anotherindyfilmguy  Sat, May 2, 2009 8:54:50am

Just the tip of the iceberg, as the extreme elements build a backlash against Islamic influence expect more stuff like this. At least he was nice enough to get caught etc...

I hate to say it but in our generation we have so far been spared a major (like the reformation/crusades etc) war against a religion. It looks like Europe could easily slip into that since they've gotten to forget what WW2 was like and have historically swung to extremes of militaristic actions etc...

12 _RememberTonyC  Sat, May 2, 2009 8:55:00am

as Charles (and Hunter Thompson) might say .....

BAD CRAZINESS

13 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 8:55:18am

re: #8 MandyManners
No frakkin' doubt! BTW, good morning!

14 Sharmuta  Sat, May 2, 2009 8:55:22am

Oh boy. On their web site they seem to think Melanie Phillips has cracked the door open for them.

15 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 2, 2009 8:56:03am

re: #11 anotherindyfilmguy

The UK is having elections here soon. I think the BNP is expected to make some gains.

16 soccerdad  Sat, May 2, 2009 8:56:50am

re: #5 VegasRick

Not sure which ones I dislike more.

Well, then do be careful. The apprehended one is a stupid racist.
Those he was talking about targetting were simply regular people who happen to believe differently than I do.

Now if we were talking about said racist going out and finding genuine islamic fundamentalists who ARE waging jihad against us, THEN it would be a no brainer for me.

17 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 8:57:20am

Ha, from the article...

"Osama Saeed of the Scottish-Islamic Foundation said: "We believe that if a young Muslim had similarly been radicalised into threatening violence after viewing videos from Iraq, he would have been dealt with completely differently by the police and prosecuting authorities."

Do these people even thing for a moment and check their brain. What a lying statement. If the person was Muslim, they would with hold his name, down play the whole incident, sweep it under the rug and the prep would get a flat and a monthly welfare check from the British government.

18 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 8:57:51am

re: #10 Charles
What? Where? No sympathy for nazis of any stripe!
Dan Akroyd had the right idea, scare them off a bridge into really cold water!

19 Taqyia2Me  Sat, May 2, 2009 8:57:59am

Oh Charles, No way would I (or anybody, I hope) be sympathetic to a neo-nazi!
Especially since I am convinced the islamojihadis are identical to neo-nazis.

20 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 8:58:54am

re: #17 Walter L. Newton
I believe "unidentified asian" is the term.

21 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:00:11am

re: #20 pingjockey

I believe "unidentified asian" is the term.

Sorry.
/

22 _RememberTonyC  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:00:41am

For anyone who thinks ever siding with the white supremacists is a good idea, I would suggest the following. If there is some sort of civil war in europe between the islamic radicals and the neo nazis, the group that will surely be caught in the middle and punished by both sides will no doubt be the Jews. So if you would like to see the Jews of europe imperiled, by all means throw your support behind neo nazis.

23 Sharmuta  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:00:58am

re: #7 Killgore Trout

Crazy Pam pointed out that the NF hates the BNP as proof that the BNP aren't EuroNazis. In reality the two groups hate each other because they compete for membership.

She's really making excuses for the bnp?! Not that I doubt you, but it's just a "holy crap" kind of moment. How delusional can one person get?

24 realwest  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:01:28am

re: #21 Walter L. Newton
Hey Walter! Don't know if you saw my answer to you at #620 on the prior thread.

25 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:01:59am

re: #21 Walter L. Newton
Heh.

26 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:02:21am

re: #23 Sharmuta
That remains to be seen!

27 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:02:23am
"He has been in contact with figures from the mosque to personally offer his apologies."

Sorry for trying to blow you up and cut off your head.

28 P. Aaron  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:02:46am

The people are geting PO'd & restless. OF course some will do stupid stuff and the ordinary folks will all get lumped into the racist category with them. All the while the Jihadists are free to practice their jihadin'.

I can understand their frustration. Can't condone anything unlawful that comes of it.

29 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:03:40am

re: #23 Sharmuta

It was back when she posted the video from Lionheart last month. She thought since the two groups hated each other they can't both be EuroNazis. She ain't too bright.

30 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:03:44am

re: #24 realwest

Hey Walter! Don't know if you saw my answer to you at #620 on the prior thread.

Yes, thanks.

31 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:04:00am

OT...CDC having a presser on the flu now.

32 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:04:28am

re: #10 Charles

Lovely.

So we're going to start the day by being sympathetic to a neo-Nazi?

What did I miss, what did I mess. Who was being sympathetic?

33 Truck Monkey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:04:57am

re: #29 Killgore Trout

It was back when she posted the video from Lionheart last month. She thought since the two groups hated each other they can't both be EuroNazis. She ain't too bright.

But she does have nice sweater meat!

////

34 realwest  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:05:20am

re: #31 pingjockey
Is there a lot of sneezing or coughing coming from the Press ?

35 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:06:05am

Where there is a leadership vacuum, somebody will take it up.

I can't help but wonder if that when any government is viewed as having a tepid response to islamo-fanatics, then the crazies go . . . crazier, really, and then there is the potential that they will gain a foothold among regular folks who believe their government is not doing enough to protect them.

In case it isn't clear, I am NOT defending this guy's indefensible position -

I'm just speculating that perhaps one way to reduce the effect of these types is for governments to make sure their citizens feel safe.

36 yma o hyd  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:06:07am

re: #15 Killgore Trout

The UK is having elections here soon. I think the BNP is expected to make some gains.

These are local elections, to city and district councils.
They are not general elections - and are only held in one third of the country.

Yes, the BNP will get the od councillor or two into one or two local councils - this is in the way of protest votes and in no way will it influence the General elections.

Not that I condone voting for BNP members in any fashion, but there is, alas, no country anywhere which doesn't have some craziness.
Point is - this is no indicator for the mood of the country in general.

37 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:06:16am

This is where the rhetoric of people like Geller and Wilders leads -- when you demonize one group of people so relentlessly, violent extremists like this guy feel empowered and encouraged.

And note that he feels completely unapologetic about saying he's a 'racist'. Remind you of anyone?

[Link: 209.85.173.132...]

38 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:06:50am

re: #34 realwest
Mwahaha!

39 Fenboy  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:07:35am

re: #22 _RememberTonyC

Well said! I utterly reject the idea that the only way to stop the jihadis is to sign up with the goose-steppers.

The BNP are still lead by Nick "Holohoax" Griffin. The National Front have faded from the front pages over the last twenty years, largely subsumed into the BNP, but incidents like this prove they are still demented fascists.

40 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:07:56am

re: #37 Charles
That's insulting on so many levels. Idjits.

41 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:08:10am

re: #29 Killgore Trout

It was back when she posted the video from Lionheart last month. She thought since the two groups hated each other they can't both be EuroNazis. She ain't too bright.

Ok, here is a description of BNP...

"The British National Party (BNP) is a far-right and whites-only[14][15][16] political party in the United Kingdom.[17][18][19] The party is not represented in the Parliament of the United Kingdom. In the 2005 UK general election, the BNP received 0.7% of the popular vote, giving it the eighth largest share of the vote, although it was fifth overall among English seats. In the 2007 Welsh Assembly Election, it came fifth in terms of votes for the regional lists with 4.3% of the vote, winning no seats, also finishing fifth in the 2008 London mayoral election with 5.23% of the popular vote, as well as electing Mayoral candidate Richard Barnbrook to the London Assembly.[20]"

Even forgetting a possible Nazi or fascist leaning, the "white only" should tip people like Pam off. It should be a red flag.

What am I missing here? Is she that stupid?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

42 realwest  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:08:13am

re: #29 Killgore Trout
I just wanted to thank you for keeping tabs on that bunch (well, if Pamela and Spencer can be considered a bunch!) for us cause I can't and won't go to their web sites at all. Haven't really been able to do so for ...... well a looooong time and so I'm grateful to you for keeping us apprised of what those nutters have to say.

43 captdiggs  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:08:23am

re: #10 Charles

Lovely.

So we're going to start the day by being sympathetic to a neo-Nazi?

No sympathy here. he should get the maximum punishment allowed by law.
Targeting the innocent is abhorent, no matter who does it.
However, in context, I would wonder how many mosques have actually been bombed or firebombed by white racists as opposed to churches and synagogues bombed and firebombed by muslims. ( Much less conpsiracies to do so)

44 MandyManners  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:09:15am

This guy is a chicken. Blowing up a building is a lot easier than debating.

45 funky chicken  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:09:25am

What a genius. Maybe he was bucking for the 3 hots and a cot?

46 jaunte  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:09:51am

Vigilantism, racism, and random collective punishment. It's an idiot trifecta.

47 VegasRick  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:09:52am

re: #32 Walter L. Newton

What did I miss, what did I mess. Who was being sympathetic?

I think that was directed at me and rightly so. I said I was not sure which group I disliked more, not thinking that the Muslims he was referring to were just innocent folks, I was thinking jihad's being killed. My mistake.

48 MandyManners  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:10:26am

re: #37 Charles

This is where the rhetoric of people like Geller and Wilders leads -- when you demonize one group of people so relentlessly, violent extremists like this guy feel empowered and encouraged.

And note that he feels completely unapologetic about saying he's a 'racist'. Remind you of anyone?

[Link: 209.85.173.132...]

Someone forgot to tell that whiney-ass bastard that Islam is not a race.

49 funky chicken  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:10:27am

re: #41 Walter L. Newton

I think she's mentally ill.

50 realwest  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:10:41am

re: #39 Fenboy I thought they were led by some nasty mofo named "Lionheart" or something like that? Or do I have my fascist groups mixed up again?

51 _RememberTonyC  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:11:00am

re: #39 Fenboy

Well said! I utterly reject the idea that the only way to stop the jihadis is to sign up with the goose-steppers.

The BNP are still lead by Nick "Holohoax" Griffin. The National Front have faded from the front pages over the last twenty years, largely subsumed into the BNP, but incidents like this prove they are still demented fascists.

thanks ... you are so right

52 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:11:14am

re: #43 captdiggs

No sympathy here. he should get the maximum punishment allowed by law.
Targeting the innocent is abhorent, no matter who does it.
However, in context, I would wonder how many mosques have actually been bombed or firebombed by white racists as opposed to churches and synagogues bombed and firebombed by muslims. ( Much less conpsiracies to do so)

In context, your question has nothing to do with the subject, which is racist and their political affiliations.

53 yma o hyd  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:11:34am

re: #35 reine.de.tout

Where there is a leadership vacuum, somebody will take it up.

I can't help but wonder if that when any government is viewed as having a tepid response to islamo-fanatics, then the crazies go . . . crazier, really, and then there is the potential that they will gain a foothold among regular folks who believe their government is not doing enough to protect them.

In case it isn't clear, I am NOT defending this guy's indefensible position -

I'm just speculating that perhaps one way to reduce the effect of these types is for governments to make sure their citizens feel safe.

Good point - thats how I see it, as well.
The sad fact is that the NuLab government have shown again and again, by their actions - be it at national or local level - that being PC and multi culti is mroe important to them than doing a proper job for their constituents.

Have a look at this story David Miliband sends out greetings for every festival EXCEPT Christmas!
Miliband is our Foreign Secretary ... and this report did of course not appear anywhere on the Beeb ...

54 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:12:00am

re: #48 MandyManners
IIRC, they have been told that many, many times and it still hasn't penetrated their pea brains.

55 realwest  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:12:55am

re: #44 MandyManners
Good morning Mandy and well said - wonder if he's acquainted with that other coward, Billy Ayers? And no I'm not saying Ayers is a racist, just that he's a coward who liked blowing up buildings and trying to murder people.

56 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:13:22am

re: #37 Charles

This is where the rhetoric of people like Geller and Wilders leads -- when you demonize one group of people so relentlessly, violent extremists like this guy feel empowered and encouraged.

Yes, exactly so.
And so again, I can't help but wonder if the effect of these types can be reduced if governments will take the lead in making sure citizens feel safe.

It seems to me that we had perhaps pockets of this kind of craziness after 9/11, but Bush's strong statements and actions seem to me to have reduced their effect.

I'm heartened to see that Obama is reconsidering his stance on the military courts for Gitmo detainees.

57 Desert Dog  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:13:25am

re: #8 MandyManners

Please allow me to present someone from Scotland more worthy of attention than this idiot.

Another favorable Scottish export

Youtube Video
58 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:13:25am

re: #50 realwest

I thought they were led by some nasty mofo named "Lionheart" or something like that? Or do I have my fascist groups mixed up again?

No. "Lionheart" is just a moronic foot soldier. Nick Griffin is the leader of the BNP.

59 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:13:54am

OT question: Help! Can anyone tell me how to use Google Cache or another facility to find web pages that have been taken down? I'm trying to see the pages of the bastard who murdered my friend Ben last week. Thanks.

60 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:14:41am

re: #58 Charles

No. "Lionheart" is just a moronic foot soldier. Nick Griffin is the leader of the BNP.

The Wiki quote I used above states that they are a "white only" political party. Is that public knowledge, is that their public stance?

61 Desert Dog  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:14:43am

re: #56 reine.de.tout

Yes, exactly so.
And so again, I can't help but wonder if the effect of these types can be reduced if governments will take the lead in making sure citizens feel safe.

It seems to me that we had perhaps pockets of this kind of craziness after 9/11, but Bush's strong statements and actions seem to me to have reduced their effect.

I'm heartened to see that Obama is reconsidering his stance on the military courts for Gitmo detainees.

Amazing how GWB's policies make more sense when you are President Obama as compared to Candidate Obama, isn't it?

62 realwest  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:14:44am

re: #41 Walter L. Newton
"Is she that stupid?"
YES.

63 danrudy  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:15:30am

re: #43 captdiggs

This is news because it is rare. It is abhorrent , but not quite such a common event. However, Muslims bombing synagogues etc is so commonplace that it hardly merits a mention anymore.

64 reine.de.tout  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:15:56am

re: #61 Desert Dog

Amazing how GWB's policies make more sense when you are President Obama as compared to Candidate Obama, isn't it?

Heh.
Yep.

65 Truck Monkey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:16:21am

re: #63 danrudy

This is news because it is rare. It is abhorrent , but not quite such a common event. However, Muslims bombing synagogues etc is so commonplace that it hardly merits a mention anymore.

Link?

66 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:16:26am

re: #64 reine.de.tout
Reality bites!

67 Occasional Reader  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:16:26am
He telephoned and emailed Strathclyde Police to make the threats from a flat

As I was advised once before serving on a Federal grand jury; sometimes you'll feel like you're indicting people for sheer stupidity as much as for criminality.

68 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:16:37am

re: #59 Cato the Elder

OT question: Help! Can anyone tell me how to use Google Cache or another facility to find web pages that have been taken down? I'm trying to see the pages of the bastard who murdered my friend Ben last week. Thanks.

Search Google like this:

cache:[website address]

Not all sites are cached by Google though. Pamela Geller is specifically blocking Google from caching her hate site, for example, to avoid leaving a trail. She put the code in her template to block Google caching after I used it to expose one of her ugly posts about "flogging" me.

69 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:16:43am

re: #62 realwest

"Is she that stupid?"
YES.

Ok, you are telling me that Gellar has praised or supported, or someway shown BNP in a good light? I ask, because I am certainly no expert on ever stupid assed thing that Geller manages to do.

70 sbvft contributor  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:16:50am

re: #33 Truck Monkey

But she does have nice sweater meat!

////

I'm partial to sweater puppies.

Youtube Video
71 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:17:19am

re: #60 Walter L. Newton

The Wiki quote I used above states that they are a "white only" political party. Is that public knowledge, is that their public stance?

That's absolutely common knowledge, and yes, it's their public stance.

72 Sharmuta  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:18:11am

There's just not much I can say about this. Until the mainstream parties throughout europe start to enforce their laws equally, people will continue to turn to the fascists, unfortunately. There should not be a single area in europe where the police refuse to go. It's anarchy. The law is meaningless if it's not enforced, and enforced equally to all citizens regardless of race, gender, religion, etc.

73 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:18:12am

re: #68 Charles
Thinks she's frakkin' sooo smart. Can you 'capture' a page off her website to keep for evidence of rampant lunancy? I probably have my terms mixed up.

74 captdiggs  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:18:26am

re: #52 Walter L. Newton

In context, your question has nothing to do with the subject, which is racist and their political affiliations.

Yes, it does.
In reality, there is far less violent action against muslims in western nations than there is violence against non muslims in muslim nations ( and elsewhere).
That was my point. That does not mean I support attacks on mosques or any innocent persons. My point was context, especially in regard to potential actions due to rhetoric spewed.
As well documented here and elsewhere, Islamic rhetoric and religious dictum results in violence worldwide.
You can always find a nutcase making threats, such as the person in this article. That pales in coparison to the daily violence actually done in the name of Islam against non muslims throughout the world.

75 MandyManners  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:18:52am

re: #68 Charles

Search Google like this:

cache:[website address]

Not all sites are cached by Google though. Pamela Geller is specifically blocking Google from caching her hate site, for example, to avoid leaving a trail. She put the code in her template to block Google caching after I used it to expose one of her ugly posts about "flogging" me.

Another chicken.

76 Arrr  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:19:01am

I'm in the process of writing a screenplay. It's a very, very dark comedy about Eurofascists and Islamist Fascists waging war against each other in the streets and campuses of Europe.

After enough innocent bystanders are caught in the crossfire, moderate Muslims and mainstream Europeans form an alliance to resist them.

77 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:19:14am

re: #63 danrudy

This is news because it is rare. It is abhorrent , but not quite such a common event. However, Muslims bombing synagogues etc is so commonplace that it hardly merits a mention anymore.

That is an overstatement and hyperbole. Bombing of synagogues is not commonplace. You make it sound like it's happening every day.

Yes, it has happened, and even one synagogue being bombed by a Muslim is cause for concern, but don't be dropping in here and making untruthful statements like that.

78 Occasional Reader  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:19:40am

re: #68 Charles

Pamela Geller is specifically blocking Google from caching her hate site

Nothing suspicious about that, no sirree!

79 realwest  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:19:56am

re: #56 reine.de.tout
Absolutely agree with you reine.
"And so again, I can't help but wonder if the effect of these types can be reduced if governments will take the lead in making sure citizens feel safe.

It seems to me that we had perhaps pockets of this kind of craziness after 9/11, but Bush's strong statements and actions seem to me to have reduced their effect."
IIRC, right after 9/11 Bush gave a speech in front of a Mosque as well as one in front of the National Cathedral, where he said something to the effect that ordinary everyday law abiding Muslims WERE NOT TO BLAME and asked us all to be tolerant of Muslims.

80 Ringo the Gringo  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:20:49am

An English friend of mine who lives in California now, but visits his family in Swindon a couple times each year, tells me that street fights between British youth and "Asian" youths are so common on weekend nights that his mother is afraid to go outside after dark. Last summer a friend of his was stabbed to death walking home from a pub. He wasn't ever robbed, just stabbed. They never caught the killer.

My friend tells me that every time he goes to visit things seem worse than before.

Any Brit Lizards here, is it really as bad as he says?

81 realwest  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:21:10am

re: #58 Charles
Ah, thanks for the correction Charles. Wasn't it Lionheart who threatened you personally?

82 Desert Dog  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:21:46am

re: #63 danrudy

This is news because it is rare. It is abhorrent , but not quite such a common event. However, Muslims bombing synagogues etc is so commonplace that it hardly merits a mention anymore.

These BNP scumbags are bad enough. There is no room for any of their ilk in a civilized society. That being said, if you want to see a group that actually blows up mosques, don't look at stupid idiots like Neil MacGregor and his kind who boast and make idiotic claims and threats. Look at OTHER MUSLIMS. They are the ones more likely to blow up Muslims and mosques. These guys talk big, but usually don't do anything because they are cowards and punks. If you want to see an actual group that will kill Muslims and blow up things, look in Iraq at the Sunni Baathists, or in Pakistan or the Taliban or in Somalia. Those guys have killed more Muslims than any white supremists group. They are killing each other right now, at this moment, and will continue to do so because that is a hatred that is so deep and strong, it will never go away.

83 Sharmuta  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:21:53am

re: #74 captdiggs

What a load of crap. The vast majority of the victims of islamic violence are other muslims.

84 danrudy  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:22:10am

re: #65 Truck Monkey

No specific link at the moment. I was just talking in generalwith regard to the MSM. It just seems that whenever I hear about these attacks around the world from internet news sources (or friends ) I never hear them being reported on CNN or ABC.

85 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:22:33am

Here's a post by Geller before she started blocking the Google cache, in which she lavishes praise on pro-BNP blogger "Lionheart" (the guy who said I should be "shot like a Nazi collaborator"):

[Link: 209.85.173.132...]

86 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:23:13am

re: #83 Sharmuta
That is a fact.

87 Occasional Reader  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:23:45am

re: #79 realwest

right after 9/11 Bush gave a speech in front of a Mosque as well as one in front of the National Cathedral,

He spoke at a service for the 9/11 victims inside (not in front of) National Cathedral, the Friday or Saturday after the attacks. He had some sort of A-list Muslim cleric at his side. IIRC, unfortunately that cleric turned out to have some rather unsavory Islamist connections.

I don't recall Bush speaking at or in front of a mosque shortly after 9/11, but I may be wrong.

88 Fenboy  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:24:26am

re: #71 Charles

Interestingly, an article from a while back here shows Griffin attempting the old trick of letting in token ethnic minorities for PR purposes. That is, fanatical members of the Hindu and Sikh communities whose hatred of Muslims outstrips their survival instinct. It doesn't seem like anything came of it though.

89 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:24:59am

re: #41 Walter L. Newton

Is she that stupid?

Yes. They are also notorious holocaust deniers. There is a lot of support for the BNP in the comments sections at Spencer's and Crazy Pam's sites.

90 Desert Dog  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:25:12am

re: #80 Ringo the Gringo

An English friend of mine who lives in California now, but visits his family in Swindon a couple times each year, tells me that street fights between British youth and "Asian" youths are so common on weekend nights that his mother is afraid to go outside after dark. Last summer a friend of his was stabbed to death walking home from a pub. He wasn't ever robbed, just stabbed. They never caught the killer.

My friend tells me that every time he goes to visit things seem worse than before.

Any Brit Lizards here, is it really as bad as he says?

Depends on the neighborhood, I'd guess. It is a very segregated over there still. The immigrants tend to cluster together.

91 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:25:18am

re: #85 Charles

Here's a post by Geller before she started blocking the Google cache, in which she lavishes praise on pro-BNP blogger "Lionheart" (the guy who said I should be "shot like a Nazi collaborator"):

[Link: 209.85.173.132...]

Ok, Charles, catch me up. How does Spencer treat/view the BNP?

92 Ringo the Gringo  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:25:50am

re: #5 VegasRick

Not sure which ones I dislike more.

You're not sure whether you dislike the self proclaimed "rascist" more than who, his intended victims?

93 Sharmuta  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:26:11am

re: #82 Desert Dog

Iraq and Pakistan are prime examples. Islamic extremists are killing other muslims in these countries. The taliban are killing Afghanis, in Iran the mullahs are hanging muslims. There are countless examples of this in countries around the globe.

94 danrudy  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:26:29am

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

Sorry dude but it is commonplace. (you just have to define what commonplace is) In fact, the risk is felt to be high enough that we have armed guards at multiple synagogue where I live in the south, my kids have armed security at their hebrew school etc.
WHo exactly do you think these armed guards are protecting them from?

95 Desert Dog  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:27:05am

re: #93 Sharmuta

Iraq and Pakistan are prime examples. Islamic extremists are killing other muslims in these countries. The taliban are killing Afghanis, in Iran the mullahs are hanging muslims. There are countless examples of this in countries around the globe.

The separate groups within Islam seem to hate each other even more than they hate the infidels.

96 VegasRick  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:27:12am

re: #92 Ringo the Gringo

You're not sure whether you dislike the self proclaimed "rascist" more than who, his intended victims?

re: #47 VegasRick

I think that was directed at me and rightly so. I said I was not sure which group I disliked more, not thinking that the Muslims he was referring to were just innocent folks, I was thinking jihad's being killed. My mistake.

You need to catch up Ringo.

97 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:27:20am

In 2007, BNP leader Nick Griffin was invited to speak at Michigan State University by "Young Americans for Freedom:"

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

98 Sharmuta  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:27:43am

re: #94 danrudy

WHo exactly do you think these armed guards are protecting them from?

Plenty of racist extremists that are just as likely to attack as the islamic variety.

99 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:28:35am

re: #69 Walter L. Newton

Here's her defense....

I ran a video of folks supporting the troops in the UK. That's it. Here's the post. Nowhere is the BNP mentioned and never have I ever expressed any support for that group. I had no idea it's BNP. Nothing at youtube says BNP. The name of the video is "People of Luton Protest against Muslim Extremists" - user name "lutonprotest". Nutty as a fruitcake, I tell ya.

But Charles is all about Charles' fantasies. FACTS ARE IRRELEVANT. It's all about putting my name, my blog and neo-nazi in the headline so that's what comes up in the google search results.

He is attempting to smear my reputation and my good name. What a misery to be Charles Johnson.

UPDATE: Go Robert!

UPDATE: Reader emails and comments have pointed out the placards and signs at the UK rally against the National Front. lol! Fruitcakery.


This is even thought she got the video from a very well known BNP supporter. Her original post of the video was titled "PUSHBACK AGAINST MUSLIM EXTREMISTS IN THE UK"

the pushback is inevitable; it has to start somewhere, sometime. And when it does, it will undoubtedly look something like this:
100 captdiggs  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:28:44am

re: #83 Sharmuta

What a load of crap. The vast majority of the victims of islamic violence are other muslims.

And where do I dispute that?
But thanks for pointing that out, because those deaths are also due to hateful rhetoric.
That does not change the point of my post.

101 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:29:21am

re: #91 Walter L. Newton

I think Spencer has condemned them but his comments section is filled with praise for the the BNP.

102 yma o hyd  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:29:33am

re: #80 Ringo the Gringo

An English friend of mine who lives in California now, but visits his family in Swindon a couple times each year, tells me that street fights between British youth and "Asian" youths are so common on weekend nights that his mother is afraid to go outside after dark. Last summer a friend of his was stabbed to death walking home from a pub. He wasn't ever robbed, just stabbed. They never caught the killer.

My friend tells me that every time he goes to visit things seem worse than before.

Any Brit Lizards here, is it really as bad as he says?

Lots of stabbings - not every single one gets reported nationally.
Lots of fights every weekend because of drunkenness, encouraged by NuLabs outrageous support for 24/7 openings of pubs and such.
Its become such a fact of life that its hardly reported either, except locally.
Gang fights between 'whites' and 'asians' are definitely not being reported in the national press.

The local police are doing their best to keep thigns udner control, especially at the weekends - but lots of normal people, like your friend's mum, and like meself, just don't go out into town for an evening.

Its become so badin the last five, six years because of the NuLab government - they have this attitude that villains, drunkards etc are the true victims.
Normal citizens must just put up with this ...

103 Truck Monkey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:30:50am

re: #84 danrudy

No specific link at the moment. I was just talking in generalwith regard to the MSM. It just seems that whenever I hear about these attacks around the world from internet news sources (or friends ) I never hear them being reported on CNN or ABC.

It's a whispering campaign then?

104 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:31:02am

re: #94 danrudy

Sorry dude but it is commonplace. (you just have to define what commonplace is) In fact, the risk is felt to be high enough that we have armed guards at multiple synagogue where I live in the south, my kids have armed security at their hebrew school etc.
WHo exactly do you think these armed guards are protecting them from?

The south what? US.

Name me the last 3 synagogue bombings in the south.

Hell, there is heighten security at airports since 9/11, but flying planes into building is not commonplace.

Your argument is hyperbole, unless you can start relating some facts and links to your proof.

105 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:31:02am

re: #68 Charles

Thanks, Charles.

106 realwest  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:31:40am

re: #69 Walter L. Newton
Yes Walter she has praised - I guess that's the right word, the BNP or this idiot Lionheart who belongs to the BNP and who once threatened to kill Charles. I don't have details cause I don't go to her site, but Kilgore, Sharmuta or Charles would know any specifics, cause they are kind enough to keep track of these fascist mofo's for the rest of us.

107 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:32:23am

re: #101 Killgore Trout

I think Spencer has condemned them but his comments section is filled with praise for the the BNP.

Ok, but Geller doesn't condemn them, and Spencer and Geller are fellows in arms, and... well, you get the idea.

108 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:32:58am

re: #101 Killgore Trout

I think Spencer has condemned them but his comments section is filled with praise for the the BNP.

That's accurate. If you look through the comments at any of the blogs that are supporting Eurofascists like Vlaams Belang, they're full of people supporting the BNP.

For example, at Robert Stacy McCain's blog, in his post defending Pamela Geller, the following comment: Pam Geller: 'Poster Girl for Eurofascists' or Just Another 'Rightwing Extremist'?

The BNP, for example, is the only British party that's advocating actual resistance to immigration and to the outrageous demands of resident Muslim punks.

109 Sharmuta  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:33:12am

re: #100 captdiggs

You said:

In reality, there is far less violent action against muslims in western nations than there is violence against non muslims in muslim nations ( and elsewhere).

Most of the violence in muslim nations affects other muslims, not non-muslims.

110 funky chicken  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:33:52am

re: #98 Sharmuta

Plenty of racist extremists that are just as likely to attack as the islamic variety.

Actually, unless there have been a lot of "sudden KKKlucker syndrome" attacks on synagogues or Jewish community centers in the past few years, your assertion of "just as likely to attack" is false.

That doesn't in any way voice support of the kind of guy who is the subject of this post, it just acknowledges actual empirical evidence gathered over the past few years.

111 debutaunt  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:34:49am

re: #73 pingjockey

Thinks she's frakkin' sooo smart. Can you 'capture' a page off her website to keep for evidence of rampant lunancy? I probably have my terms mixed up.

No, lunacy is the correct term.

112 danrudy  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:35:03am

re: #82 Desert Dog

Agree....attacks on Muslims from non-muslim groups is quite rare . That is why it is news. Attacks by Muslims are much more common. Wasn't it Chalrles right here on LGF (and forgive me if I am remembering incorrectly but I dont think I am) that used to have headlines following those terrorist attacks that went unnamed by the news with the line "Must be those darned Hindu's again (or something like that)?"
Wasn't it here that we used to call Islam the "religion of Peace will full sarcasm?"

It's because the attacks by mulsims were so much more commonplace then attacks by other groups. SO much so that it is hardly newsworthy anymore in the press unless it is particularly spectacular.
Attacks on a mosque by a non-Muslim? now that is newsworthy

113 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:35:56am

re: #111 debutaunt
Heh. Lunancy is right. I just meant since you can't google cache it, is there someway to keep her posts for futher review, if necessary?

114 [deleted]  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:36:36am
115 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:36:49am

re: #106 realwest

Yes Walter she has praised - I guess that's the right word, the BNP or this idiot Lionheart who belongs to the BNP and who once threatened to kill Charles. I don't have details cause I don't go to her site, but Kilgore, Sharmuta or Charles would know any specifics, cause they are kind enough to keep track of these fascist mofo's for the rest of us.

Well then, we have all the proof we need that Geller has jumped the shark. This support alone should be enough to make anyone question her credibility.

The BNP publicly calls itself a "white only" organization and that should be the end of any support, from anyone, for any reason.

And if Spencer allow pro-BNP comments at Jihad Watch, then he is in the least, tacitly encouraging support of the BNP.

If anyone has any doubts about Spencer and Geller, this should be the only thing you need to make your decision about them.

116 MacGregor  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:36:50am

em>re: #1 VegasRick

Morning Charles, I am going to be very careful on this thread.

Ditto !

117 Ringo the Gringo  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:37:01am

re: #102 yma o hyd

Lots of stabbings - not every single one gets reported nationally.
Lots of fights every weekend because of drunkenness, encouraged by NuLabs outrageous support for 24/7 openings of pubs and such.
Its become such a fact of life that its hardly reported either, except locally.
Gang fights between 'whites' and 'asians' are definitely not being reported in the national press.

The local police are doing their best to keep thigns udner control, especially at the weekends - but lots of normal people, like your friend's mum, and like meself, just don't go out into town for an evening.

Its become so badin the last five, six years because of the NuLab government - they have this attitude that villains, drunkards etc are the true victims.
Normal citizens must just put up with this ...

Sounds like Theodore Dalrymple's descriptions of contemporary Britain.

Very sad state of affairs.

118 NonNativeTexan  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:37:09am

re: #101 Killgore Trout

I think Spencer has condemned them but his comments section is filled with praise for the the BNP.

Don't you keep raising the bar? Didn't you ask Pam and Spencer
to condemn them? Spencer has, so give him credit.

119 Fenboy  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:37:39am

re: #109 Sharmuta

Its the difference between mustering up a few street thugs, and running entire armies and nations. The islamofascists in muslim nations have much greater resources for their violence and the result is innocent people suffer on a colossal scale. Dafur being a case in point, or the carnage Saddam wracked on Iraq, or the throat-slitting insurgency in Algeria or...etc. etc. etc. The islamofascists rack up a greater body count in muslim nations because they have the power to do so. If they were given the same power in western nations, western nations would see the same.

120 Occasional Reader  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:37:41am

re: #104 Walter L. Newton

Name me the last 3 synagogue bombings in the south.

Hell, there is heighten security at airports since 9/11

Sorry, Walter, I don't think that's a good analogy. Synagogues don't have heightened security merely out of some sense that everyone does after 9/11. They have very specific reasons.

The synagogue closest to where I live has visible security measures, including guards and tire-shredders to keep vehicles from forcing their way into the parking garage. The neighborhood Catholic church doesn't. There's a reason for that.

121 realwest  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:37:44am

re: #87 Occasional Reader
Well you're right a lot more often than you're wrong O.R., my memory of those days is clouded with severe anger, even today.
But I DO know that Bush did say something to the effect that we shouldn't blame all Muslims and not try to attack them (he was talking in the context of attacking them here in their shops or mosques or wherever). Maybe it was in that same speech, I just don't remember the surrounding circumstances but I do remember him saying that.

122 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:38:13am

re: #108 Charles

From her original post of the video.....

Churchill's son needs to just shut up and let the BNP continue to advertise using Churchill in their ads. Churchill's son needs to just shut up altogether. If his dad were alive he would flail him into shape.
123 SteveC  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:38:17am

Good Morning!

*Sings "On the Road Again"*

May 22-27, I'll be in Boulder, Colorado - local heart group is participating in the Bolder Boulder, I'm going to help out, blog, and twitter the event!

I'm taking a private jet. (Hey, Delta Airlines owns it...!) :)

124 funky chicken  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:38:59am

re: #102 yma o hyd

wow. reine's point is excellent....eventually the government will have to step up to provide security in the streets, or the populace will turn to potentially unsavory types who will do it in the government's place.

Isn't that supposedly the story of the Iraqi insurgency from 2005-2007?

re: #35 reine.de.tout

Where there is a leadership vacuum, somebody will take it up.

I can't help but wonder if that when any government is viewed as having a tepid response to islamo-fanatics, then the crazies go . . . crazier, really, and then there is the potential that they will gain a foothold among regular folks who believe their government is not doing enough to protect them.

In case it isn't clear, I am NOT defending this guy's indefensible position -

I'm just speculating that perhaps one way to reduce the effect of these types is for governments to make sure their citizens feel safe.

125 Sharmuta  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:39:34am

re: #118 NonNativeTexan

Don't you keep raising the bar? Didn't you ask Pam and Spencer
to condemn them? Spencer has, so give him credit.

Then he should be acting upon it just as much as speaking it, and deleting pro-bnp comments from his website. Other bloggers are capable of moderating their sites, why isn't he?

126 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:39:42am

re: #112 danrudy

Agree....attacks on Muslims from non-muslim groups is quite rare . That is why it is news. Attacks by Muslims are much more common. Wasn't it Chalrles right here on LGF (and forgive me if I am remembering incorrectly but I dont think I am) that used to have headlines following those terrorist attacks that went unnamed by the news with the line "Must be those darned Hindu's again (or something like that)?"
Wasn't it here that we used to call Islam the "religion of Peace will full sarcasm?"

It's because the attacks by mulsims were so much more commonplace then attacks by other groups. SO much so that it is hardly newsworthy anymore in the press unless it is particularly spectacular.
Attacks on a mosque by a non-Muslim? now that is newsworthy

Let's get back to your comment about the attacks on synagogues being commonplace.

Name the last three attacks, with links to back up your comment.

127 realwest  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:39:44am

re: #89 Killgore Trout

Yes. They are also notorious holocaust deniers. There is a lot of support for the BNP in the comments sections at Spencer's and Crazy Pam's sites.

Yup. Back when I used to go to her site (was never much of a fan of Spencer) her comments were MODERATED - which means, of course, that Pam PERSONALLY approved those comments, too.

128 Occasional Reader  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:39:55am

re: #109 Sharmuta

re: #100 captdiggs

You said:

In reality, there is far less violent action against muslims in western nations than there is violence against non muslims in muslim nations ( and elsewhere).

Most of the violence in muslim nations affects other muslims, not non-muslims.

No offense, but your reply does not refute captdiggs' point. Both your statement and his can be simultaneously true.

129 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:40:15am

re: #118 NonNativeTexan

Don't you keep raising the bar? Didn't you ask Pam and Spencer
to condemn them? Spencer has, so give him credit.


His site is used to promote the BNP even though he gives them a tepid condemnation. They aren't required to appease me in any way and I don't expect them to. They have their opinion and I have mine.

130 SteveC  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:40:35am

re: #112 danrudy

Agree....attacks on Muslims from non-muslim groups is quite rare .

"If a dog bites a man, that's not news. If a man bites a dog, that's NEWS! Now get out there and find me some news, Kent!" -- Perry White, in about 12,978 Superman comics

131 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:41:03am

re: #120 Occasional Reader

Sorry, Walter, I don't think that's a good analogy. Synagogues don't have heightened security merely out of some sense that everyone does after 9/11. They have very specific reasons.

The synagogue closest to where I live has visible security measures, including guards and tire-shredders to keep vehicles from forcing their way into the parking garage. The neighborhood Catholic church doesn't. There's a reason for that.

He stated above that synagogue bombing are common place, I want some references to that.

132 yma o hyd  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:41:05am

re: #117 Ringo the Gringo

Sounds like Theodore Dalrymple's descriptions of contemporary Britain.

Very sad state of affairs.

Theodore Dalrymple is a very wise man!
And yep, he knows a thing or two about these affairs. He was a prison surgeon.

133 Occasional Reader  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:41:12am

re: #121 realwest

But I DO know that Bush did say something to the effect that we shouldn't blame all Muslims and not try to attack them

Oh, I agree he made statements along those lines, including at the National Cathedral invocation. And I think it was the right thing to do.

134 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:41:32am

re: #114 opinionated

Because I decide what gets posted at LGF, not you. Start your own blog if you don't like it, then I'll come over and tell you what you should and shouldn't post.

135 danrudy  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:41:49am

re: #126 Walter L. Newton

I will be back in a little while....have to step away from computer for about 1-2 hours then I will search for links.

136 Truck Monkey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:42:03am

re: #87 Occasional Reader

He spoke at a service for the 9/11 victims inside (not in front of) National Cathedral, the Friday or Saturday after the attacks. He had some sort of A-list Muslim cleric at his side. IIRC, unfortunately that cleric turned out to have some rather unsavory Islamist connections.

I don't recall Bush speaking at or in front of a mosque shortly after 9/11, but I may be wrong.

He did speak at the Washington Islamic Center even before the National Prayer Service. He was judged pretty harshly for it at the time. This is where he is quoted as saying, once again, that Islam is a religion of peace. Looking back on it I do believe it was the right thing to do just based on the countrys mood at the time. A mixture of anger, hostility, revenge, uncertainty, etc..... I believe that as President he had to do it.

137 SteveC  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:42:47am

re: #134 Charles

Because I decide what gets posted at LGF, not you. Start your own blog if you don't like it, then I'll come over and tell you what you should and shouldn't post.

Game over, man.... Game over!

138 Sharmuta  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:42:55am

re: #124 funky chicken

wow. reine's point is excellent....eventually the government will have to step up to provide security in the streets, or the populace will turn to potentially unsavory types who will do it in the government's place.

Isn't that supposedly the story of the Iraqi insurgency from 2005-2007?

One of the ways the original fascists made inroads with their electorates was to provide "security". Never mind they were playing both sides of the fence by creating the violence they were offering protection from.

139 [deleted]  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:43:07am
140 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:43:25am

re: #126 Walter L. Newton
I went to the JDL website and couldn't find anything.

141 yma o hyd  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:44:10am

re: #122 Killgore Trout

From her original post of the video.....

What is the matter with this woman - she seems to enjoy talking about personal physical violence, with all this flogging, and flailing into shape.

142 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:44:16am

re: #139 opinionated

Bye now! Take care. Good luck starting your own blog.

143 Occasional Reader  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:44:36am

re: #102 yma o hyd

The local police are doing their best to keep thigns udner control,

One thing that seems glaringly obvious to me? Your police need to be armed (and, of course, trained). I still shudder at the thought of those video clips we've seen of unarmed UK police being literally backed into a corner by screaming jihadists. That should never, ever happen.

145 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:44:47am

Wow! I just saw 139 disappear! That is a first for me!

146 Fenboy  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:45:04am

Boom! Headshot!

147 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:45:34am

re: #141 yma o hyd
Maybe she's into S & M?!

148 Sharmuta  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:46:30am

re: #141 yma o hyd

What is the matter with this woman - she seems to enjoy talking about personal physical violence, with all this flogging, and flailing into shape.

Violent fantasies is another fascist tendency.

149 Ringo the Gringo  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:47:19am

re: #142 Charles

Bye now! Take care. Good luck starting your own blog.

When I started my little website I decided to not have comments. I'm sure I get a lot less hits because of it but I just didn't want to have to deal with the headache.

150 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:48:18am

re: #140 pingjockey

I went to the JDL website and couldn't find anything.

I wouldn't have asked the question unless I already had the answers, smart debating technique.

I am not in any way supporting the crazy-assed Islamic nut cases who are causing so much trouble, worldwide.

But, I see a lot of, in my opinion, closet bigot come out of the woodwork on some of these thread. It's the old "well, that NP guy was wrong... but" sort of comments.

And then, the next thing you know, the commenter is verging on the edge of making bigoted or racist statement about Muslims.

He said synagogue bombing were commonplace, that was his "but" in his first comment, and I just want the facts, because I smell a bigot.

Of course, my opinion, and if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong and will admit it.

Ball is in his court.

151 funky chicken  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:48:24am

re: #87 Occasional Reader

He spoke at a service for the 9/11 victims inside (not in front of) National Cathedral, the Friday or Saturday after the attacks. He had some sort of A-list Muslim cleric at his side. IIRC, unfortunately that cleric turned out to have some rather unsavory Islamist connections.

I don't recall Bush speaking at or in front of a mosque shortly after 9/11, but I may be wrong.

And then threw Franklin Graham under the bus for saying that Islam isn't the religion of peace. I read Graham's book Rebel With a Cause a couple of years before that and really enjoyed it even though I'm not religious. It's a really good read, and has excellent background info on Islamic extremism, even though that was NOT Graham's focus when he wrote the book.

Honestly, I highly recommend this book to anybody who has a few hours to kill.
[Link: www.amazon.com...]

152 yma o hyd  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:49:32am

re: #143 Occasional Reader

One thing that seems glaringly obvious to me? Your police need to be armed (and, of course, trained). I still shudder at the thought of those video clips we've seen of unarmed UK police being literally backed into a corner by screaming jihadists. That should never, ever happen.

Ha!
If our police does use riot sticks, as at the G20 demonstrations, the MFM are full with accusations of police brutality, and of personal stories of the poor innocent victims who had done nothing bad, except maybe spit at the officers and shout insults at the, for hours, and not following police orders ...

See - in LLL thought, the police are the fascists, not the BNP.

153 SteveC  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:49:57am

re: #146 Fenboy

Boom! Headshot!

SNIPER!

Somebody get the range on that shot?

154 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:50:04am

Meanwhile, we had another meltdown in the thread about the Oklahoma GOP platform, from someone who accused me of being 'anti-Christian' because I questioned the validity of "Biblical archaeology."

So that's our first Biblical archaeology meltdown. These days, almost any topic will bring on the ranters, it seems.

155 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:50:05am

re: #150 Walter L. Newton
Yep. If a synagogue or church, or mosque, any house of worship is attacked it is in the news.

156 nyc redneck  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:50:10am

re: #35 reine.de.tout

Where there is a leadership vacuum, somebody will take it up.

I can't help but wonder if that when any government is viewed as having a tepid response to islamo-fanatics, then the crazies go . . . crazier, really, and then there is the potential that they will gain a foothold among regular folks who believe their government is not doing enough to protect them.

In case it isn't clear, I am NOT defending this guy's indefensible position -

I'm just speculating that perhaps one way to reduce the effect of these types is for governments to make sure their citizens feel safe.

i agree completely.
looking at this situation, i'm surprised it hasn't happened more often. and i fully expect it too escalate for the reasons you have mentioned. many people in britain and europe do not feel safe. and unfortunately in times like that you
see frustrations escalate to radical levels.
look at the arch bishop in britain saying sharia law is fine and prince charles
himself praising islam as lovely religion. the citizens in europe feel like they are getting the shaft because of p.c. pandering run amok.
we need some clear thinking in europe to address this problem.
mark steyn's book "america alone" addresses the issues well.

157 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:50:57am

re: #154 Charles
They're still commenting on that thread? Sheesh.

158 realwest  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:51:33am

re: #115 Walter L. Newton
Uh, see Charles #101 concerning Spencer himself; the one time I went to his site he stated that he doesn't moderate his comments because he's too busy or something, and obviously that's a poor policy given the comments I read just that one day, but as I said Pamela used to (and may still, for all I know) moderate her comments - she approves them before she publishes them. Which, given the comments at her site back when she attacked Charles for simply cautioning folks at the contra-jihad conference to not let themselves be used by the White Nationalists, is just as abhorrent as what she herself says.

159 doppelganglander  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:52:14am

re: #132 yma o hyd

Theodore Dalrymple is a very wise man!
And yep, he knows a thing or two about these affairs. He was a prison surgeon.

"Life at the Bottom" made a huge impact on me. I also follow his column at City Journal. I need to catch up with his other books, though.

160 Occasional Reader  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:52:29am

re: #151 funky chicken

And then threw Franklin Graham under the bus for saying that Islam isn't the religion of peace.

I think that's the sort of thing that Franklin Graham can say, but the President (under those circumstances) shouldn't. We did NOT have anti-Muslim riots in this country after 9/11; much as it would make leftists' heads explode to admit it, George Bush's words may have had something to do with that.

161 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:53:11am

re: #152 yma o hyd
IIRC, a few years ago the greens started some shit in Londons "wall street" area and the traders, oil futures guys, came out and thumped them to a fare thee well.

162 Occasional Reader  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:53:33am

re: #154 Charles

So that's our first Biblical archaeology meltdown. These days, almost any topic will bring on the ranters, it seems.

Just don't start a "Brazilian Supermodels Aren't All That Special" thread, and you and I will get along just fine, mister.

163 dwells38  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:55:29am

re: #56 reine.de.tout

Doesn't seem like we really had any significant anti-Muslim sentiment here before 9/11. Our neo-Nazis and KKKers were too busy hating on Jews and Blacks although they are so marginalized in this day and age they wouldn't dare do much in the way of organized violence. More like run a hate spewing website and march and hide behind the ACLU is their style. I think there are usually more blacks hurting blacks than any racists against blacks it seems but I didn't look up a statistic.

I think many of the Nazi ilk might still think they have more in common with the Jew-hating Arabs and Middle-Easterners in both thinking Hitler's work was worthwhile and incomplete.

All of it's really sad in this age of mass media and high-tech communication that this low quality of ideas still gets passed around and taken seriously when much better and clear refutations to it are readily available at the twiddle of a fingertip. I suppose it spells out that some elements of man will ALWAYS find a reason to hate someone, some other group.

164 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:55:37am

re: #154 Charles

Meanwhile, we had another meltdown in the thread about the Oklahoma GOP platform, from someone who accused me of being 'anti-Christian' because I questioned the validity of "Biblical archaeology."

So that's our first Biblical archaeology meltdown. These days, almost any topic will bring on the ranters, it seems.

If anyone who is interested in unbiased, secular archaeology that looks into the people, places and ideas of the Hebrew and Greek scriptures, than look into the Biblical Archaeology Review magazine and the parent organization Biblical Archaeology Society.

I have been getting their magazine for about 30 years, and they are one of the best and most affordable source of biblical Archeology in the world, with no slant to one religious mind set or another.

165 yma o hyd  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:55:48am

re: #160 Occasional Reader

I think that's the sort of thing that Franklin Graham can say, but the President (under those circumstances) shouldn't. We did NOT have anti-Muslim riots in this country after 9/11; much as it would make leftists' heads explode to admit it, George Bush's words may have had something to do with that.

Nor did we have anti-muslim riots in the UK after 7/7 - people do know whats what and are more generous than a lot of politicians from either side of the spectrum would give them credit for.

166 Glackinspeil  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:56:16am

[Ed. note: this account has been blocked.]

On tolerance.
The question is this: How tolerant should a group be towards another whose stated purpose is to convert, subjugate, or destroy the former?

167 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:57:49am

re: #166 Glackinspeil
You still can't threaten to blow shit up!

168 realwest  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:58:36am

re: #136 Truck Monkey
"Looking back on it I do believe it was the right thing to do just based on the countrys mood at the time. A mixture of anger, hostility, revenge, uncertainty, etc..... I believe that as President he had to do it."
Yup, another example of what a President is supposed to do.
I have no frickin' clue as to what Brown is saying or doing and don't know what President Obama would say or do if God Forbid, there should be another Jihadist attack on the US, but I'd hope he'd follow Bush's example.
Some folks just don't get it: it isn't Muslims qua Muslims that we have a fight with, it's the Muslim Jihadists and their enablers we have a BIG fight with.

169 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:58:43am

re: #167 pingjockey

You still can't threaten to blow shit up!

Some people just don't get it.

170 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 2, 2009 10:00:02am

re: #164 Walter L. Newton

If anyone who is interested in unbiased, secular archaeology that looks into the people, places and ideas of the Hebrew and Greek scriptures, than look into the Biblical Archaeology Review magazine and the parent organization Biblical Archaeology Society.

I have been getting their magazine for about 30 years, and they are one of the best and most affordable source of biblical Archeology in the world, with no slant to one religious mind set or another.

No one denies that there have been some archaeological finds substantiating parts of the Bible, but the "discipline" of Biblical archaeology is a branch of creation science:

Biblical archaeology is an important creation science discipline that substantiates the Bible as a valid historical document, and the Biblical chronology as accurate time-line. Each year new discoveries are made, and creationists are encouraged to keep themselves informed of progress in this field.

171 funky chicken  Sat, May 2, 2009 10:00:36am

re: #160 Occasional Reader

I agree that POTUS shouldn't have said any such thing. But Graham already had 20 years of experience dealing with Islamic terrorism--first-hand, on the ground, in the dust experience, and his statement wasn't that people should attack Muslims.

Bush immediately cut contact with Graham and the White House repudiated him and coronated the execrable Ted "Gilderoy Lockhart" Haggard to fill his place as prominent evangelical POTUS friend.

That didn't work out so well, huh?

I gave Lockhart that nickname because I used to live in Colorado Springs and took my visiting evangelical aunt to Haggard's New Life Church one Sunday. Haggard/Lockhart put Steve Martin/Benny Hinn to shame because his schtick was much more sophisticated, but the gleaming coif and creepily narcissistic and practiced playing to the cameras was ... shocking.

My aunt was even creeped out, and she attends a mega-church in San Diego. I was amused/amazed/creeped out, but like I said, I'm not religious.

172 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 10:01:09am

re: #169 Walter L. Newton
On a lighter note, my 17 yr olds drama class is doing "willie wonka". They have a bunch of the middle schoolers being oompa loompas. Morgan is going to be grampa joe.

173 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 2, 2009 10:01:11am

re: #166 Glackinspeil

On tolerance.
The question is this: How tolerant should a group be towards another whose stated purpose is to convert, subjugate, or destroy the former?

Get off my website.

174 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 10:02:14am

re: #173 Charles
That's two.

175 realwest  Sat, May 2, 2009 10:03:05am

re: #154 Charles
Um, sorry, but wth is "Biblical archaeology."?

176 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 10:03:59am

re: #170 Charles

No one denies that there have been some archaeological finds substantiating parts of the Bible, but the "discipline" of Biblical archaeology is a branch of creation science:

Charles, there is more than one way to define Biblical archaeology. The Albright school very much supports the use of Biblical archaeology to PROVE the bible (including creation)

There is Biblical archaeology that has nothing to do with proving the bible, it's a secular archaeology that deals with biblical places. people and anthropological themes, but the truth of the archaeology comes first, not the bible.

The magazine I mentioned is a secular publication dedicated to that venture.

177 MacGregor  Sat, May 2, 2009 10:06:45am

re: #142 Charles

As the youngest of five children, I've learned persistence. That with polite respect for others in the community encourages honest discourse. When frustration reaches anger at a reasonable argument, it's time to take a step back and re-evaluate the reasons we are arguing the point.

But in the agw thread I had to hold on with my gecko-like adhesive nano-t00bz.

178 Render  Sat, May 2, 2009 10:07:48am

[Link: articles.latimes.com...]

===

Associated Press/April 27, 2005

Oklahoma City -- A former member of a white supremacist group was convicted of federal charges of hurling a fire bomb at a synagogue, causing minor exterior damage.

Sean Gillespie, 21, of Spokane, Wash., was found guilty Tuesday of three bombing charges. He was being held without bail and faces a minimum of 35 years in prison.

Prosecutors showed jurors two videotapes, one from a surveillance camera at Temple B'Nai Israel that showed a person attacking the synagogue with a fire bomb on April 1, 2004.

Prosecutors say the other videotape, found in Gillespie's truck, showed him plotting his attack. On it, he said: "I'm going to firebomb (the temple) with a Molotov cocktail. I will film it for your viewing enjoyment, my kindred. White power.''

Gillespie, a former member of the supremacist group Aryan Nations, was convicted of carrying a firearm during a crime of violence, damaging a building used in interstate commerce and having an unregistered destructive device.

The defense had argued that federal case was not warranted, contending the synagogue was not involved in interstate commerce.

Sentencing is expected in about three months.

"This kind of religious violence is so fundamentally un-American that, as a society, we simply cannot tolerate it,'' said U.S. Attorney Robert McCampbell.

===

[Link: www.splcenter.org...]

[Link: www.jewishtimes.com...]

[Link: www.javno.com...]

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

[Link: www.boston.com...]

[Link: www.highbeam.com...]

CHOSEN
ONE,
R

179 gander  Sat, May 2, 2009 10:09:51am

Mr. MacGregor - don't watch them head-loppin' videos.

180 funky chicken  Sat, May 2, 2009 10:13:46am
Associated Press/April 27, 2005

Oklahoma City -- A former member of a white supremacist group was convicted of federal charges of hurling a fire bomb at a synagogue, causing minor exterior damage.

Sean Gillespie, 21, of Spokane, Wash., was found guilty Tuesday of three bombing charges. He was being held without bail and faces a minimum of 35 years in prison.

Prosecutors showed jurors two videotapes, one from a surveillance camera at Temple B'Nai Israel that showed a person attacking the synagogue with a fire bomb on April 1, 2004.

Prosecutors say the other videotape, found in Gillespie's truck, showed him plotting his attack. On it, he said: "I'm going to firebomb (the temple) with a Molotov cocktail. I will film it for your viewing enjoyment, my kindred. White power.''

Gillespie, a former member of the supremacist group Aryan Nations

Hey Idaho/eastern Washington, keep your g*damned neo-nazis to yourselves, OK?

The Aryan Nations is trying to make a comeback of sorts up in Idaho after some major setbacks courtesy of the US government. Hopefully the good guys will make sure that their comeback is short lived.

182 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 2, 2009 10:17:02am

re: #178 Render

Those DHS reports make a lot of sense to me. It's a shame so many people feel different.

183 MacGregor  Sat, May 2, 2009 10:17:49am

re: #179 gander

I've seen 'em all. That's frustration at reason for sure.

184 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 10:17:49am

re: #180 funky chicken
We are keepin' an eye on the fools. They really piss me off.

185 pingjockey  Sat, May 2, 2009 10:21:25am

Later folks!

186 ladycatnip  Sat, May 2, 2009 10:25:19am

#83 Sharmuta

What a load of crap. The vast majority of the victims of islamic violence are other muslims.

It depends upon the continent. In Africa and parts of Indonesia, fundamentalist muslims terrorize, enslave and kill non-muslims who are mostly Christian. Sudan, Somalia, Eritrea, and Nigeria are especially difficult places to live if you're non-muslim. Obviously in the ME it's muslim-on-muslim because of tribal hatreds, but non-muslims are targeted as well - which is why they have the three tenets - convert, submit or die. The fundamentalists are the problem, as they only want power; I read a great book by William O. Levy, The Bible or the Axe, which recounts his experiences in the Sudan. Excellent book and not bitter about his torture and abuse by radical islamists.

It was interesting in Levy's biography he makes an interesting point that when Britain occupied the Sudan there was law and order; when Britain left, the vacuum left was filled with power-hungry radical islamists.

187 Frank_Mtl  Sat, May 2, 2009 10:41:44am

re: #181 Spare O'Lake

The article does not mention. However, there is more information about similar incidents here : [Link: www.bnaibrith.ca...]

188 GeicoGecko  Sat, May 2, 2009 10:43:23am

re: #186 ladycatnip

Pretty much everywhere Britain has pulled out of is worse off then when Britain occupied it, especially in Africa. About the only exceptions to that rule I can think of are Singapore and to a certain extent, India.

Problem is Britain is now pulling out of Britain. Which is why, sadly, the BNP are growing in popularity.

There was a very good thread about this on Shire Network News site recently.

189 funky chicken  Sat, May 2, 2009 10:44:01am

re: #151 funky chicken

And then threw Franklin Graham under the bus for saying that Islam isn't the religion of peace. I read Graham's book Rebel With a Cause a couple of years before that and really enjoyed it even though I'm not religious. It's a really good read, and has excellent background info on Islamic extremism, even though that was NOT Graham's focus when he wrote the book.

Honestly, I highly recommend this book to anybody who has a few hours to kill.
[Link: www.amazon.com...]

addendum...the last quarter of the book becomes more overtly evangelical in tone, but it's really easy to skim/skip the pages that are like that. The rest of the book is extremely interesting and talks a lot about his work with medical missionaries in places like Jordan and Sudan over many, many years among other things.

He wrote the book in the mid nineties, and it's an autobiography, and not political as I recall. Honestly, it's a page-turner and worth reading.

190 _RememberTonyC  Sat, May 2, 2009 10:57:02am

The sad truth about peace in the middle east is so obvious. As a smart poster mentioned above, the biggest threat to the safety of muslims comes from other muslims. The various sects always stress their differences, and there are plenty. In short, they hate and kill each other at an unacceptable rate. But even among all these groups that hate each other, there is one thing that DOES bond them together: the desire to hurt/annoy/eliminate/attack Israel.

So given the enmity between muslims for each other, why does anyone really believe these people who are constantly at war with each other will eventually agree to live in peace with their common enemy: Israel? Maybe a mideast country here and there can be bought off by the US to accept Israel. And I am in favor of helping any such arab/muslim country that is willing to accept the concept of Israel living in peace.

But history and past behavior have shown that the chances of a wide ranging middle east peace are slim. And that is why Israel is allowed to do whatever it needs to do in order to keep itself safe. We don't need a Holocaust II.

191 danrudy  Sat, May 2, 2009 11:01:25am

re: #126 Walter L. Newton


Well...I spent a total of 3 minutes on the web looking up these links.
Seems like these attacks are pretty commonplace to me.
DO you need more links?

Your text to link...
link

Article from 2004 says more then 100 attacks on BRITISH synagogues since 2000
Your text to link...
Your text to link...
Your text to link...
Your text to link...
Your text to link...

192 Occasional Reader  Sat, May 2, 2009 11:04:09am

re: #188 GeicoGecko

Pretty much everywhere Britain has pulled out of is worse off then when Britain occupied it, especially in Africa. About the only exceptions to that rule I can think of are Singapore and to a certain extent, India.

Well, there's also... you now... us! And Canada.

Also Bermuda, and some scattered bits in the Caribbean... that's about it, I think.

193 Irish Rose  Sat, May 2, 2009 11:11:25am

This is absolute bullshit, there is no extremism on the right!
God is love!

And why do you hate Christians, Charles?

/////////

194 funky chicken  Sat, May 2, 2009 11:11:50am

re: #192 Occasional Reader

Australia?

195 Walter L. Newton  Sat, May 2, 2009 11:15:18am

re: #191 danrudy

Well...I spent a total of 3 minutes on the web looking up these links.
Seems like these attacks are pretty commonplace to me.
DO you need more links?

Your text to link...
link

Article from 2004 says more then 100 attacks on BRITISH synagogues since 2000
Your text to link...
Your text to link...
Your text to link...
Your text to link...
Your text to link...

You said BOMBINGS were common. The article says more than 100 synagogues were desecrated. Of course, desecrations is terrible, but it is not the same as bombings.

Of course, there is a problem here, but once again, you are stretching the issue, and you are giving me a bunch of hyperbole.

I want to see common place BOMBINGS as you said.

196 hellosnackbar  Sat, May 2, 2009 11:17:04am

re #80 ringo the gringo,

It's not an everyday event but it's not rare.
In some northwestern towns like Blackburn and Burnley there are regular
set -tos muslim people and the aborigines live in totally seperate parts of town.It's like South African apartheid but on a voluntary basis.
A recent visit to Baltimore demonstrated the same phenomenon.
One of the more inflammatory facets of life in these towns is the supply of heroin by Asians(muslim) to young stupid white girls as a route to satisfying their priapic problems.(their own muslimahs being off limits).
Policeing these areas is very low key(community cohesion and multiculturism);as a result muslim areas are dangerous places after dark.
These are the failed policies of an inept government influenced by the
cultural equivalence theorists who don't live in these areas.
Other Asians such as Sikhs and Hindus also stay away from muslim areas and are far better integrated.(you see the latter in multiracial groups in the pubs).
The other factor is unemployment.Muslims(of Pakistani origin)do by and large poorly educationally and as a result are over represented at the
benefits office.
Muslims also have large families.
So what you have are groups of maurauding unemployed semiliterate
Pakistani youths with monstrous chips on their shoulder believing through their religious ideology that they are somehow superior in gangs.
In step the vermin of the BNP as the representatives of the concerned
natives;and the idiots of the labour party wring their inept hands.
The situation in some areas of London is worse.

197 tommygum  Sat, May 2, 2009 11:34:18am

re: #29 Killgore Trout

It was back when she posted the video from Lionheart last month. She thought since the two groups hated each other they can't both be EuroNazis. She ain't too bright.

The SA and SS hated each other too.

But they both wore the same twisted cross.

198 Randall Gross  Sat, May 2, 2009 11:37:51am

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

That is an overstatement and hyperbole. Bombing of synagogues is not commonplace. You make it sound like it's happening every day.

Yes, it has happened, and even one synagogue being bombed by a Muslim is cause for concern, but don't be dropping in here and making untruthful statements like that.

On top of all that, muslims bomb many more mosques than other houses of worship. That's a fact that is steadily changing sympathies away from terrorism in some quarters of Dar al Islam. re: #173 Charles

Get off my website.

How many socks does glackenshit have?

199 danrudy  Sat, May 2, 2009 11:43:09am

re: #195 Walter L. Newton

Maybe you should look again at some of the links. Paris bombing. Turkey bombing, Norway shooting (ok, its not a bomb but is is also not a desecration. Sydney attacks.
Below are a few more. I have specifically excluded Caracas and Moscow and Mucnich attacks that were not done my muslims (since that was the focus of conversation). Some were bomb threats, some were actual bombs placed

some more...
cemetary and synagogue attack
Tunisia bomb
Your text to link...
bomb threat on jewish school
 munich bomb plot
Your text to link...

200 danrudy  Sat, May 2, 2009 11:46:14am

re: #198 Thanos

so what?
The original point was that some things are common and thus not newsworthy and some are not so common.

I said muslim attacks on Non-muslim targets were common. You are merely saying that muslim attacks on themselves are even more common.

I agree with you.

201 funky chicken  Sat, May 2, 2009 11:59:12am

re: #199 danrudy

re: #195 Walter L. Newton

How's about we agree upon "attacks upon synagogues" rather than the pedantic argument over "bombings?"

202 ladycatnip  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:26:20pm

#188 GeikoGecko

Pretty much everywhere Britain has pulled out of is worse off then when Britain occupied it, especially in Africa. About the only exceptions to that rule I can think of are Singapore and to a certain extent, India.

Problem is Britain is now pulling out of Britain. Which is why, sadly, the BNP are growing in popularity.

What is it with this? I'm stunned at how Britain is acquiescing. This does not bode well for other western nations who may see this as an example to follow. I'm sure though, that the average Brit is outraged.

203 ladycatnip  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:30:07pm

#188 GeicoGecko

Also forgot to mention that slavery in Africa became illegal under British occupation. Levy says in his book that when Britain pulled out, slavery flourished again. Very sad.

204 Wishbone  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:39:57pm

re: #202 ladycatnip

The 'Avrerage Brit' is spitting feathers at the crap we're expected to endure in the name of multicultural harmony, political correctness and the Labour dream.

Any Western nation who sees our model as an example to follow, should have its leaders dragged outside and slapped silly for even entertaining such a notion.

Labour is finished. The next government is practically guaranteed to be a Conservative one, if only our laborious political system would hurry up and let us get around to voting the leftie bastards out. My only worry is that this bunch of tories will be only slightly less to the left left than the current bunch of morons leading in parliament.

205 danrudy  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:08:08pm

re: #201 funky chicken

agreed.
An attack is an attack is an attack.
Some cause more damage than others.

206 Jimmah  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:09:49pm

re: #7 Killgore Trout

Crazy Pam pointed out that the NF hates the BNP as proof that the BNP aren't EuroNazis. In reality the two groups hate each other because they compete for membership.

She is now openly apologising for the BNP? Wow.

207 Jimmah  Sat, May 2, 2009 1:11:36pm

It's sad to see the BBC quoting Qaradawi apologist Osama Saeed in that report.

208 Pupdawg  Sat, May 2, 2009 3:09:36pm

There should never be sympathy for the devil...except the Stones tune, of course it should be.

209 AndyMacOP  Sat, May 2, 2009 4:38:13pm

re: #170 Charles

Wrong. Young earth creation science is an aberrant branch of biblical archeology. The good Dominicans at the Ecole Biblique are digging in authentic ancient ruins and not looking for ways to disprove the age of the earth/solar system/galaxy. Using young earth creationist to disprove a valid and worthwhile scientific discipline is unjust. No biblical archeologist I know has even thought about looking for the bones of Adam and Eve. Hey, these people may exist, but science is not what they are doing.

210 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 2, 2009 5:29:20pm

re: #209 AndyMacOP

Wrong. Young earth creation science is an aberrant branch of biblical archeology. The good Dominicans at the Ecole Biblique are digging in authentic ancient ruins and not looking for ways to disprove the age of the earth/solar system/galaxy. Using young earth creationist to disprove a valid and worthwhile scientific discipline is unjust. No biblical archeologist I know has even thought about looking for the bones of Adam and Eve. Hey, these people may exist, but science is not what they are doing.

Well, the CreationWiki disagrees with you. Maybe you should take it up with them instead of telling me I'm wrong, because they very explicitly claim it's a branch of creation science.

211 zoidberg  Sat, May 2, 2009 6:29:56pm
decided to put some of that rabble-rousing anti-Islam populist rhetoric into action

Charles,
Isn't it more anti-Muslim rhetoric rather than anti-Islam?
I personally find Islam to be mostly a disgusting religion, but Muslims that I've associated with are no different to other folk.

Personally, I don't want to end up in the same category as a neo-Nazi.

212 AndyMacOP  Sat, May 2, 2009 6:36:34pm

re: #210 Charles

I try not to dialogue with the unreasonable as much as possible. I also find no good reason to give any credence to a young earth creationist website/wiki. In any case, the claim, whether made by you or a wacky YECist is incorrect. But let me rephrase the fact: authentic biblical archeology is not a branch of creation science. The Dominicans and other orders of the Catholic Church have been engaged in the sciences long before the fundamentalists sects in the U.S. were ever formed or even thought of cracking open a science textbook. Which I still think they might not have done...obviously.


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