Cannibalism at Health Care Rally in Los Angeles

US News • Views: 4,295

No word on whether private insurance will cover the finger reattachment or the dental check-up. Man’s Finger Bitten Off in Scuffle at Health Care Rally.

A witness from the scene says a man was walking through the anti-reform group to get to the pro-reform side when he got into an altercation with the 65-year-old, who opposes health care reform.

The 65-year-old was apparently aggressive and hit the other man, who then retaliated by biting off his attacker’s pinky, according to Karoli from DrumsnWhistles.

The man took his finger and walked to Los Robles hospital for treatment. Doctors reattached the finger, which was said to have been severed in half. He has since been released, according to a hospital spokesperson.

Neither man has been identified.

In case that wasn’t clear — a pro-health care demonstrator was apparently assaulted by an anti-health care demonstrator, and retaliated by chowing down on his pinky.

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944 comments
1 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:13:37am

Was it a zombie?

2 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:13:39am

Everybody knows it was Mike Tyson in this story...

3 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:13:41am

Hope he's insured.

4 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:14:25am

So THAT'S where chicken fingers come from.

/

5 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:14:32am
6 RoughRider  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:15:17am

ObamaCare would have the finger reattached within 8-12 weeks.

7 Last Mohican  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:15:26am

An awful story. I hope this madness ends soon, but unfortunately it just looks like things are getting worse. It could have been a lot worse if someone there had brought a gun.

8 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:16:28am

Not to quibble, but: did this really happen? I only ask because I'd swear I read this identical happenstance some years ago. Protest, scuffle, pro-whatever guy bites off the finger of anti-whatever.

Or maybe it was in a novel?

9 astronmr20  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:16:29am

At a glance, looks like there really should not be any side screaming "victimhood" here.

I don't advocate biting off someone's fingers unless you are in danger for your life, but looks like these two were swinging at each other and neither deserves the "victim" metal.

10 Last Mohican  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:16:44am

And by the way, I'm going to give this article the official Last Mohican Award for Most Unnecessary and Nonhelpful Journalistic Photo.

11 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:17:19am

re: #8 Dianna

Not to quibble, but: did this really happen? I only ask because I'd swear I read this identical happenstance some years ago. Protest, scuffle, pro-whatever guy bites off the finger of anti-whatever.

Or maybe it was in a novel?

Return of the King, I think.

12 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:17:25am

I think Obama should invite the two guys over to the White House for beers.

13 fat bastard vegetarian  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:17:28am

Walter can't say I didn't warn him earlier.

14 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:17:48am

Socialists taste like chicken.

15 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:18:00am

re: #12 HelloDare

I think Obama should invite the two guys over to the White House for beers.

But how can he daintily stick his pinkie out while he drinks?

16 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:18:07am

I would recommend replacing the term "anti-reform" with the term "anti-Obamacare". Many conservatives support reform, but we don't want a government takeover of health care.

17 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:18:27am
18 fat bastard vegetarian  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:18:51am

re: #12 HelloDare

I think Obama should invite the two guys over to the White House for beers.

Howabout a "tea". With ladyfingers?

19 Lee Coller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:18:55am

Lizard LSD posted this in the spinoffs:

[Link: www.drumsnwhistles.com...]

Provides more info.

20 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:18:58am

Our cafeteria at work makes really good chicken fingers. But I don't think I'd like the other kind.

21 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:19:01am

re: #16 Dark_Falcon

I would recommend replacing the term "anti-reform" with the term "anti-Obamacare". Many conservatives support reform, but we don't want a government takeover of health care.

Both terms need reform.

22 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:19:08am

re: #12 HelloDare

I think Obama should invite the two guys over to the White House for beers.

Should he serve finger food with that?

23 Occasional Reader  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:19:11am
a pro-health care demonstrator was apparently assaulted by an anti-health care demonstrator

Charles, I ask that you reconsider this terminology.

Just because one opposes the Obama plan, that does not make one "anti-health care".

24 Walter Cronanty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:19:13am

O/T - Hmmm---far-left, White House Green Jobs Czar Van Jones is apparently a "truther" - [Link: gatewaypundit.blogspot.com...]

25 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:19:36am

Mental note:

Do not give the finger to Obama's supporters.

They might try to keep it.

26 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:19:59am

re: #20 _RememberTonyC

People who eat chicken fingers and crab balls must have very small appetites.

27 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:20:30am

I Blame Bush.™

28 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:20:35am

re: #23 Occasional Reader

Charles, I ask that you reconsider this terminology.

Just because one opposes the Obama plan, that does not make one "anti-health care".

I'm not anti-health care. I pay a lot of money for health care. I'm just against the single-payer public option "reform".

29 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:20:46am

re: #14 Killgore Trout

Socialists taste like chicken.

Should that be fascists taste like chicken? It was the pro-ObamaCare guy who did the biting, while the anti-ObamaCare got chomped. /can't keep track of which side is what epitaph of the day.

30 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:20:56am
In case that wasn’t clear — a pro-health care demonstrator was apparently assaulted by an anti-health care demonstrator, and retaliated by chowing down on his pinky.

Drudge blames the Obama supporter...
ObamaCare Supporter Bites Off Finger Of Protester...

31 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:20:58am

re: #26 Mad Al-Jaffee

People who eat chicken fingers and crab balls must have very small appetites.

unless you eat a whole lot of them ...

32 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:21:08am

Be careful the next time you're tempted to yell "Bite me" at someone you're arguing with.

33 esch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:21:22am

He must have been a supporter of Chompsky

34 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:21:27am

re: #28 JamesTKirk

I'm not anti-health care. I pay a lot of money for health care. I'm just against the single-payer public option "reform".

Quite Concur.

35 Last Mohican  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:21:28am

re: #16 Dark_Falcon

I would recommend replacing the term "anti-reform" with the term "anti-Obamacare". Many conservatives support reform, but we don't want a government takeover of health care.

Yes. "Anti-reform" is deliberately misleading doublespeak, and I strongly dislike the term. It's an attempt to promulgate the left-wing talking point that anyone who's against the current Democratic plan is necessarily opposed to making any changes in health care, period.

36 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:21:41am

BTW, shouldn't it be real easy to identify who was involved? The guy missing the finger now has a big bandaged hand, while the other guy has blood dripping from his face and clothes? /

37 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:21:44am

re: #14 Killgore Trout

Socialists taste like chicken.

Problem is, if I'm reading the article correctly, it was the socialist who bit off the other guy's finger.

38 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:21:52am

Vincent Van Gogh would approve ...

39 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:22:01am

re: #27 HelloDare

I Blame Bush.™

That's why Obama is giving so much money to Brazilians. To eliminate Bush once and for all.

40 Occasional Reader  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:22:04am

Speaking of cannibalism and the "public option": Re-posted from previous thread, via that hard right-wing news source, the, er, BBC:

NHS 'failed' over cannibal killer

NHS failures contributed to two people being killed by a man with schizophrenia after he was freed from a secure hospital, two inquiries suggest.

Peter Bryan, 39, of east London, killed a friend and ate parts of his brain in 2004 - two years after being released from Rampton, in Nottinghamshire.

A Death Panel tried to pull the plug on my grandma once. I ate their livers with fava beans and a nice Chianti. Bwaaahahaha...

41 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:22:22am

re: #37 Honorary Yooper

Problem is, if I'm reading the article correctly, it was the socialist who bit off the other guy's finger.

I only read Charles's summary, but he says it's the opposite.

42 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:22:26am

The latest hyperventilation -- Gateway Pundit is yelling that he found Van Jones' name on a list of people calling for 9/11 investigations on a Truther site. He says Jones "signed" the list.

It apparently hasn't occurred to him that Truthers tend to lie, and that anyone can put any name at all on a web page -- and he appears to have no interest in confirming that it's really Van Jones before trumpeting it to the world.

43 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:22:30am

re: #32 Mad Al-Jaffee

Be careful the next time you're tempted to yell "Bite me" at someone you're arguing with.

Every time I hear or read that line "Bite Me" I cringe. Never really got it. Origination?

44 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:22:45am

Let's remember that there is only one witness account from a MoveOn.org activist.

BBL

45 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:22:54am

re: #40 Occasional Reader

Speaking of cannibalism and the "public option": Re-posted from previous thread, via that hard right-wing news source, the, er, BBC:

NHS 'failed' over cannibal killer

A Death Panel tried to pull the plug on my grandma once. I ate their livers with fava beans and a nice Chianti. Bwaaahahaha...

Good morning Dr. Lector.

46 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:23:36am

Well, at least we're not at each other's throats.

47 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:23:39am

re: #43 unrealizedviewpoint

I always assumed it had something to do with oral sex.

48 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:23:42am

re: #29 lawhawk

Should that be fascists taste like chicken? It was the pro-ObamaCare guy who did the biting, while the anti-ObamaCare got chomped. /can't keep track of which side is what epitaph of the day.


I confused as to who bit whom.

49 Cato  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:23:50am

OT: Obama Czar a "Truther"

[Link: gatewaypundit.blogspot.com...]

50 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:23:52am

re: #30 Killgore Trout

Timeline:

Anti Obamacare guy gets into kerfuffle with pro-Obamacare guy
Anti Obamacare guy apparently assaults pro-Obamacare guy.
Obamacare supporter responds with biting anti-Obamacare's pinky off.

I'm sure we'll get more details when the reporters finally do their due diligence.

51 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:23:56am

re: #46 HelloDare

Well, at least we're not at each other's throats.

Lizard gizzard, anyone?

52 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:24:07am

re: #42 Charles

The latest hyperventilation -- Gateway Pundit is yelling that he found Van Jones' name on a list of people calling for 9/11 investigations on a Truther site. He says Jones "signed" the list.

It apparently hasn't occurred to him that Truthers tend to lie, and that anyone can put any name at all on a web page -- and he appears to have no interest in confirming that it's really Van Jones before trumpeting it to the world.

See, for example, the NYC-CAN ballot initiative, which failed in part due to a lack of properly valid signatures. See also: Architects for 9/11 Truth.

53 RoughRider  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:24:10am

re: #35 Last Mohican

"Anti-reform" is deliberately misleading doublespeak, and I strongly dislike the term. It's an attempt to promulgate the left-wing talking point that anyone who's against the current Democratic plan is necessarily opposed to making any changes in health care, period.

That's how they operate. I am opposed to cap-and-trade carbon nonsense, but that doesn't mean I'm in favor of dirty air and polluted water.

54 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:24:12am

re: #40 Occasional Reader

Speaking of cannibalism and the "public option": Re-posted from previous thread, via that hard right-wing news source, the, er, BBC:

NHS 'failed' over cannibal killer

A Death Panel tried to pull the plug on my grandma once. I ate their livers with fava beans and a nice Chianti. Bwaaahahaha...

Quit calling me Clarice OR..You are creeping me out..
/

55 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:24:14am

re: #30 Killgore Trout

I read that three times. Once when Charles posted it, then twice when you quoted.

I'm operating on 2 hours sleep. But...it reads like the anti-O-care did the assaulting and got his finger bitten off.

Who did what to whom? I'm too fogged.

56 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:24:33am
57 astronmr20  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:24:43am

re: #30 Killgore Trout

Drudge blames the Obama supporter...
ObamaCare Supporter Bites Off Finger Of Protester...

Drudge doesn't blame anyone. He just links to stories.

58 KenJen  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:24:54am

re: #14 Killgore Trout

Socialists taste like chicken.

Might be good with some of your pear chutney!

59 turn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:24:57am

Imagine how hard you would have to chomp to actually chew off a finger. It would be like biting a raw chicken bone in half. Even Al Cappon would have a hard time doing that. Later - work - sigh. Hey yma go back downstairs and read the almond tree story - true story. I'll tell you the story about how Katelan herded up my chickens some day too. bbml

60 Occasional Reader  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:25:07am

re: #37 Honorary Yooper

Problem is, if I'm reading the article correctly, it was the socialist who bit off the other guy's finger.

That's my reading of the story, too. (That is, the pro-"reform" guy was the biter, not the bitee.)

61 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:25:10am

re: #48 Killgore Trout

I confused as to who bit whom.

The anti-Obama demonstrator had his finger bitten off, after assaulting the pro-Obama demonstrator.

62 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:25:23am

re: #37 Honorary Yooper

Problem is, if I'm reading the article correctly, it was the socialist who bit off the other guy's finger.

I keep losing track of who's doing what to whom.

63 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:25:33am

re: #57 astronmr20

Drudge doesn't blame anyone. He just links to stories.

He also has a habit of looking for the strangest story possible for the front page and photograph.

64 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:25:34am

Morning.

It reads correctly:

The pro-health care reform care man was assaulted by an anti-health care reform man.

The pro-health care reform man retaliated by biting off the finger of the anti-health care reform man.

MoveOn spokeswoman Ilyse Hogue:

Yesterday, MoveOn held over 350 peaceful candlelight vigils nationwide, in which tens of thousands of people participated in, to call for immediate action on health care reform including a strong public option.

We have seen press reports that indicate at one event in Southern California a regrettable act of violence happened. While we do not have any more facts about what happened then what we saw in press accounts, MoveOn condemns violence in all forms. We have seen passions run high on both sides all summer in the health care debate, and we strongly believe that this nation deserves an honest, peaceful and respectful debate about health care reform.

While we don't know if either party involved was a MoveOn member, we regret any violence that may have occurred yesterday, and we support the Ventura County Sheriff's investigation into the situation. It is our firm hope that this event does not detract from the tens of thousands who were out peacefully making their voices heard for health care reform and a public option.

65 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:25:36am

re: #35 Last Mohican

Yes. "Anti-reform" is deliberately misleading doublespeak, and I strongly dislike the term. It's an attempt to promulgate the left-wing talking point that anyone who's against the current Democratic plan is necessarily opposed to making any changes in health care, period.

That might be something we get to counter next week. I Obama is going to address Congress, then the GOP will get to give a response. Tom Coburn should give it and highlight Republican proposals. The entire thrust of our efforts early next week should be to promote our ideas, and show why they are better than those of Obama.

66 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:25:40am

It would be ironic if a lefty vegetarian bit the finger.

67 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:25:47am

re: #48 Killgore Trout

I confused as to who bit whom.

It's not just me and lack of sleep?

68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:26:04am

re: #56 buzzsawmonkey

I swear... are you a professional writer? That was excellent.

69 Cato  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:26:04am

re: #49 Cato

Charles' point is well taken, but considering what we have seen and heard this guy say on tape, the charge at least seems credible. But let's find out.

70 mikalm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:26:06am

Finally -- a cause we can sink our teeth into!

71 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:26:09am

re: #59 turn

Even Al Cappon would have a hard time doing that.

Especially since he's, you know, dead and all. Which means he's after brains, not fingers.

72 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:26:13am

Any idea how f**cking hot it is in Thousand Oaks (where this finger happened)? Yikes!

73 Pickles  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:26:21am

Wingnuts on both sides!

74 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:26:29am

re: #29 lawhawk

Should that be fascists taste like chicken? It was the pro-ObamaCare guy who did the biting, while the anti-ObamaCare got chomped. /can't keep track of which side is what epitaph of the day.

epithet?

75 Fenway_Nation  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:26:38am

Finger Sandwiches, anyone?

76 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:26:41am

re: #61 Charles

Oh, ok. Still on my first cup of coffee.

77 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:26:47am
78 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:26:48am

re: #61 Charles

The anti-Obama demonstrator had his finger bitten off, after assaulting the pro-Obama demonstrator.

No innocents, got that part originally, and everyone's disgusting.

Thanks for spelling it out, though.

79 esch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:26:58am

re: #66 HelloDare

It would be ironic if a lefty vegetarian bit the finger.

This is what happens when "Pull my finger" goes horribly, horribly wrong.

80 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:27:08am

re: #66 HelloDare

It would be ironic if a lefty vegetarian bit the finger.

You should be damn glad you qualified that.

81 KenJen  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:27:27am

re: #61 Charles

The anti-Obama demonstrator had his finger bitten off, after assaulting the pro-Obama demonstrator.

I'm reading it the other way around.

82 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:27:41am

re: #63 Honorary Yooper

He also has a habit of looking for the strangest story possible for the front page and photograph.

He's an artists at acquiring clicks.

83 jill e  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:27:49am

I blame shows like "True Blood." Blegh!

84 SurferDoc  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:27:54am

"If it bleeds, it leads."

85 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:27:55am

re: #81 KenJen

I'm reading it the other way around.

Either way, let's give the poor guy a supportive High Four.

86 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:27:56am

Is reattachment covered under the public option?
What would be the waiting period before the Pinky Board approves reattachment?
If the reattachee doesn't use his pinky while drinking tea is reattachment cost effective?
Will the IRS garnish the wages of the biter too help cover the costs?

Soo many questions.

87 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:28:06am

Maybe he was tired of Unicorn nuggets.

88 Teh Flowah  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:28:31am

So, who's the first moron who will use this to say that all pro-reform people are finger biting assholes?

89 Occasional Reader  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:28:48am

It would have to have been a pretty vicious assault to justify that kind of retaliation. Not impossible, but not probable, that such a measure could be justifiable. I mean... if someone's trying to put me in the trunk of a car or something, I'm going to be biting, tearing, gouging, stomping, you name it. But over one punch? No.

90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:29:07am

re: #86 jcm

Hear about the parsley farmer who had his wages garnished?

91 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:29:08am

re: #72 unrealizedviewpoint

Any idea how f**cking hot it is in Thousand Oaks (where this finger happened)? Yikes!

Why you could barbecue a child's head right on the sidewalk!

92 MJ  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:29:30am

re: #64 Gus 802

From your link:

...MoveOn condemns violence in all forms.

Except when Palestinians blow up Israelis. Then everything is hunky dory.

93 Occasional Reader  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:29:46am

re: #77 buzzsawmonkey

I have written for publication occasionally.

It was really a shame about your name being obliterated on the cover in favor of that "WIDE OPEN BEAVER INSIDE" slogan.

/apologies to Killgore Trout

Off to lunch.

94 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:29:51am

I'm willing to bet PETA thinks it's okay to bite humans because we are the oppressor. /

95 KingKenrod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:30:05am

re: #61 Charles

The anti-Obama demonstrator had his finger bitten off, after assaulting the pro-Obama demonstrator.

According to the story, the pro-Obamacare guy crossed a street to confront a group of about 25 anti-Obamacare protesters. Maybe he should have until after lunch.

96 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:30:05am

re: #89 Occasional Reader

It would have to have been a pretty vicious assault to justify that kind of retaliation. Not impossible, but not probable, that such a measure could be justifiable. I mean... if someone's trying to put me in the trunk of a car or something, I'm going to be biting, tearing, gouging, stomping, you name it. But over one punch? No.

Not to mention, as noted above, the amount of force required to do so. They had to be AT IT in order for it to get that far.

97 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:30:07am

re: #83 jill e

I blame shows like "True Blood." Blegh!

I disagree. True Blood is a great show. I used to think that its hostility towards Evangelical Christians was over-the-top and still think its needs help on that point, but lately I've come to realize that some Evangelicals really are that crazy.

98 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:30:09am

re: #85 JamesTKirk

Either way, let's give the poor guy a supportive High Four.

Ugh!

99 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:30:22am

re: #89 Occasional Reader

It would have to have been a pretty vicious assault to justify that kind of retaliation. Not impossible, but not probable, that such a measure could be justifiable. I mean... if someone's trying to put me in the trunk of a car or something, I'm going to be biting, tearing, gouging, stomping, you name it. But over one punch? No.

We need video.
Sounds like they were wrestling for a bite like that.

100 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:30:23am

re: #69 Cato

Charles' point is well taken, but considering what we have seen and heard this guy say on tape, the charge at least seems credible. But let's find out.

It's not credible at all until it's confirmed.

Curious that people who've been screaming about 9/11 Truthers being liars for years are suddenly willing to take something on a Truther site at face value.

101 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:30:37am

re: #42 Charles

The latest hyperventilation -- Gateway Pundit is yelling that he found Van Jones' name on a list of people calling for 9/11 investigations on a Truther site. He says Jones "signed" the list.

It apparently hasn't occurred to him that Truthers tend to lie, and that anyone can put any name at all on a web page -- and he appears to have no interest in confirming that it's really Van Jones before trumpeting it to the world.

He may have signed something calling for a investigation of security lapses for example. There were some other pretty rational signers among the group, and I doubt they all thought 9-11 was a inside job, but may have wanted answers on how it happened. BTW, I see no problem with more investigation of who signed what.

102 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:30:53am

re: #9 astronmr20

At a glance, looks like there really should not be any side screaming "victimhood" here.

I'm unsure. If someone punches me I don't think my reaction would be to grab his hand and bite off his finger. I predict the biting of the finger will be because the guy had his hands on the other guy's face. I can only guess and I wouldn't certainly bite someone if they had my face in a hold and had just punched me..

103 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:31:01am

re: #93 Occasional Reader

It was really a shame about your name being obliterated on the cover in favor of that "WIDE OPEN BEAVER INSIDE" slogan.

/apologies to Killgore Trout

Off to lunch.

Ah, so it was a huntin' mag, then?

104 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:31:09am

re: #85 JamesTKirk

Either way, let's give the poor guy a supportive High Four.

From Bachmann's blood brothers to Pinky Brothers!

105 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:31:41am
106 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:31:44am

re: #101 avanti

He may have signed something calling for a investigation of security lapses for example. There were some other pretty rational signers among the group, and I doubt they all thought 9-11 was a inside job, but may have wanted answers on how it happened. BTW, I see no problem with more investigation of who signed what.

If it's on a Truther site, it's probably not that innocuous.

107 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:32:00am

re: #104 jcm

From Bachmann's blood brothers to Pinky Brothers!

Both are loons.

108 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:32:06am

re: #83 jill e

I blame shows like "True Blood." Blegh!

Hey! I like Charlaine Harris' books! Sookie's a nice girl, just telepathic.

109 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:32:30am

re: #99 unrealizedviewpoint

We need video.
Sounds like they were wrestling for a bite like that.

I'd settle for a sound bite.

110 Last Mohican  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:32:38am

re: #37 Honorary Yooper

Problem is, if I'm reading the article correctly, it was the socialist who bit off the other guy's finger.

According to "Karoli" or "Drumnwhistles," the anti-Obamacare protester threw the first punch, and the pro-Obamacare demonstrator "retaliated" by biting off the man's finger. "Karoli" is the only source of information in this article.

Karoli was one of the pro-Obamacare demonstrators. His or her "drumsnwhistles" blog currently seems to be overloaded, but I looked at a Google cache of it, where I learned that another left-wing blog has posted Karoli's account of the incident.

111 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:32:40am

re: #88 Teh Flowah

So, who's the first moron who will use this to say that all pro-reform people are finger biting assholes?

Oh, just wait a few minutes.

112 jill e  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:32:52am

I watched "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington" on TCM last night and was saddened by how applicable it still is today some 70 years later.

113 Lee Coller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:32:59am

re: #42 Charles

The latest hyperventilation -- Gateway Pundit is yelling that he found Van Jones' name on a list of people calling for 9/11 investigations on a Truther site. He says Jones "signed" the list.

It apparently hasn't occurred to him that Truthers tend to lie, and that anyone can put any name at all on a web page -- and he appears to have no interest in confirming that it's really Van Jones before trumpeting it to the world.

According to the internet archive, Van Jones was a signatory from at least Jan 22, 2005. While it would be nice to confirm this through his own statements, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out the allegation is true, as far as I know he was a relative unknown back then.

114 Pullus Iulius  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:32:59am

I know we're not supposed to judge, but I'm willing to stipulate that cannibalism doesn't advance the debate. The debate at hand, that is.

115 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:33:03am

re: #90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hear about the parsley farmer who had his wages garnished?

Corny.

116 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:33:04am

re: #89 Occasional Reader

It would have to have been a pretty vicious assault to justify that kind of retaliation. Not impossible, but not probable, that such a measure could be justifiable. I mean... if someone's trying to put me in the trunk of a car or something, I'm going to be biting, tearing, gouging, stomping, you name it. But over one punch? No.

For a bite like that to take off a pinky, and that's a substantial bite, I'd wager it was a rolling on the ground type of thing.

117 mikalm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:33:26am

Legal question: in the finger-biting case, would the charge be mayhem?

118 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:33:44am

I was in an altercation once and the guy was clawing at my face and mouth. I bit whatever he shoved in my mouth. Pretty hard to get someone's finger in your mouth unless they shoved it there. But that's just me.

119 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:33:45am

re: #115 Mad Al-Jaffee

Corny.

I good farmer is outstanding in his field.

120 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:33:47am
121 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:33:49am

re: #115 Mad Al-Jaffee

Corny.

Lettuce not dwell on such puns.

122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:33:53am

re: #112 jill e

Watch it in another hundred years... I have a feeling that the Roman Senate had the same kind of shit going on.

123 voirdire  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:34:15am

re: #111 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh, just wait a few minutes.

Certainly not Van Jones.

124 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:34:28am

Hmmm, the version I have of this news incident tells a slightly different story:

Finger Bitten Off At Calif. Health Protest

"THOUSAND OAKS, Calif. -- A clash between opponents and supporters of health care reform ended with one man biting off another man's finger, California authorities said.

Ventura County Sheriff's Capt. Frank O'Hanlon said about 100 people demonstrating in favor of health care reforms rallied Wednesday night on a street corner. One protester walked across the street to confront about 25 counter-demonstrators.

O'Hanlon said the man got into an argument and fist fight, during which he bit off the left pinky of a 65-year-old man who opposed health care reform.

A hospital spokeswoman said the man lost half the finger, but doctors reattached it and he was sent home the same night.

She said he had Medicare."

The KTLA version originally posted at the top of this thread seemingly tries to shift the blame somewhat onto the victim, saying he was the one who started the fight. But this version from KTVU says the attacker waded into the anti-health-reform protesters specifically because he wanted to "confront" them.

Which version is accurate?

Either way: I predict that this will not get anywhere near the amount of coverage as the "gun stunt," even though in this case actual violence was involved. Because in this case it doesn't fit the narrative of which side is supposed to be violent.

125 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:34:34am

OK, it's confusing. From the LA Times:

Initial police reports say that one pro-protester moved into the group of anti-protesters.

Some angry words were exchanged.

One protester punched another, a witness told KTLA.

A scuffle ensued. And the pro-protester had a finger bitten off. (UPDATE: 8:18 a.m. Conflicting later reports indicate the biter was a healthcare proponent and the now nine-fingered man an opponent.)

The injured man walked to Los Robles Hospital with his finger for, well, healthcare.

Sheriff's investigators were, well, investigating. Neither the biter nor the bitee were identified by midnight Pacific time.

(Updated at 12:52 a.m.: Karoli over at DrumsnWhistles has an eyewitness account that differs from the KTLA version, involving two men behaving "quite badly.")

-- Andrew Malcolm

[Link: latimesblogs.latimes.com...]

126 jill e  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:34:52am

re: #122 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Watch it in another hundred years... I have a feeling that the Roman Senate had the same kind of shit going on.

I know...but you'd hope for SOME improvement over time.

127 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:35:01am

re: #113 Lee Coller

According to the internet archive, Van Jones was a signatory from at least Jan 22, 2005. While it would be nice to confirm this through his own statements, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out the allegation is true, as far as I know he was a relative unknown back then.

No. The only thing that shows is that his name is on that list. It does not prove at all that he "signed" it. And there are a LOT of names on that particular list, many of whom are not kooks. This story smells of distortion to me.

128 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:35:21am

Proper attire for the next ObamaCare protest rally.

Stainless Steel Mesh Safety Glove - 5 Finger

129 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:35:26am
130 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:35:31am

re: #106 thedopefishlives

If it's on a Truther site, it's probably not that innocuous.

Just trying to be fair and balanced. :)

131 Ojoe  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:35:32am

This is happening on Obama's watch.

He is setting the tone.

It is madness.

I fervently pray that he is a one term president and that the next president brings the country back together.

132 debutaunt  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:35:34am

re: #117 mikalm

Legal question: in the finger-biting case, would the charge be mayhem?

"It was may-ham out there!"

P. Walnuts

133 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:35:57am

Eyewitness on with Mark Steyn on Rush...

134 Fenway_Nation  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:36:27am

For the record, I've gotten into the occasional scrape where I was convinced that my adversary was going to try and gouge my eye with one of his fingers or thumbs...

That's when I start biting.

/Altho' I've never bitten anybody's digits clean off.

135 Ojoe  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:36:36am

re: #129 buzzsawmonkey

Digital means finger. I am not sure which one.

136 Cato  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:36:38am

re: #100 Charles


It is more credible than not based on his statements that the government has poisoned minorities.

137 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:36:53am

re: #133 jcm

Eyewitness on with Mark Steyn on Rush...

And I bet his account will be Fair and Balanced ;)

138 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:36:55am

re: #121 Dark_Falcon

Lettuce not dwell on such puns.

I didn't plant the seed!

139 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:37:10am

OT:
New jobless claims down 4,000 to 570,000 last week
Continuing claims rise 92,000 to 6.23 million, U.S. data show on eve of payrolls

The number of people filing for state unemployment benefits for the first time fell by 4,000 to a seasonally adjusted 570,000 last week, the Labor Department reported Thursday.

Initial claims have held in a fairly narrow range for the past seven weeks, down about 100,000 from the peak in March but still well above levels seen in a healthy economy.

The number of people claiming benefits of any kind remained above 9.5 million, not seasonally adjusted. Read the full report.

"The lack of job creation remains a big headwind for cash-starved and credit-constrained consumers, and thus a major impediment for the fledgling recovery," wrote Sal Guatieri, senior economist for BMO Capital Markets.

The four-week average of seasonally adjusted new claims rose 4,000 to 571,250, the highest in eight weeks. The four-week average smoothes out the data to minimize the impact of one-time changes due to weather, strikes or holidays.

Meanwhile, the number of people collecting regular state benefits rose by 92,000 in the week ended Aug. 22 to a seasonally adjusted 6.23 million. The insured unemployment rate also rose, climbing to 4.7% from 4.6%.

So the one week number of new claims dropped by 4,000 while the 4 week average of new claims rose by 4,000 and the continuing claims rose by 92,000

That indicates that new jobs are not being created in a significant amount.

140 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:37:18am

re: #124 zombie

Yes, it's hard to point a finger.

141 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:37:41am

re: #136 Cato

It is more credible than not based on his statements that the government has poisoned minorities.

No, it's not credible. It comes from a 9/11 Truth site. Good grief.

142 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:37:44am

I don't do that very often.

143 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:37:50am

re: #120 buzzsawmonkey

Pillow biters?

144 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:37:58am

re: #136 Cato

It is more credible than not based on his statements that the government has poisoned minorities.

I've heard of those statements and would like to know more. If indeed Van Jones said such things about the government poisoning minorities, that's troubling.

145 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:37:59am

re: #129 buzzsawmonkey

Was this in the print news, or was it only covered digitally?

You can probably go to a newsstand and get a paper copy with a five finger discount.

146 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:38:11am

Different accounts of the story, depending on which side of the street you're standing on:

[Link: www.redcounty.com...]

[Link: tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

147 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:38:13am

re: #100 Charles

It's not credible at all until it's confirmed.

Curious that people who've been screaming about 9/11 Truthers being liars for years are suddenly willing to take something on a Truther site at face value.

But, but, but... we want this one to be true.

/Hmm, that didn't work out too well for Dan Rather, maybe I'll rethink it.

148 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:38:44am
149 MTF  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:39:34am

Lefty violence at health care rallies is the norm. Nothing new here, except the scale.

This is new: the Won has troofers working in the White House.

150 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:39:40am

re: #148 buzzsawmonkey

I've got to hand it to you there.

I wonder if either of them was armed?

151 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:40:00am

re: #149 MTF

Isn't this _exactly_ what Charles just mentioned?

152 jill e  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:40:02am

Just received by e-mail:

Remembering Our Colleagues
At 8:46 a.m. Eastern Time on September 11, 2009, Marsh Chairman and CEO Dan Glaser will make remarks and lead a moment of silence honoring the MMC colleagues lost on September 11, 2001. The moment of silence will be followed by a musical tribute performed by MMC Chorale. The ceremony will take place at the MMC memorial, which is located in the outdoor plaza adjacent to MMC's headquarters at 1166 Avenue of the Americas.

Memorial Website
To visit MMC's September 11 memorial website, go to [Link: memorial.mmc.com...] . The site contains tributes to many of our colleagues lost on September 11, 2001 and allows visitors to post messages.

153 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:40:13am

Wait - the man whose finger was bitten off is elderly?

What?

Zombie, your story is making me more confused than ever. An elderly guy took a swing at someone who approached him? What?

154 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:40:20am

re: #146 Wendya

Different accounts of the story, depending on which side of the street you're standing on:

[Link: www.redcounty.com...]

[Link: tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Well, I don't know all the facts, but I think it's pretty clear that Thousand Oaks Police Department acted stupidly.

155 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:40:40am

re: #124 zombie

Hmmm, the version I have of this news incident tells a slightly different story:

Finger Bitten Off At Calif. Health Protest

"THOUSAND OAKS, Calif. -- A clash between opponents and supporters of health care reform ended with one man biting off another man's finger, California authorities said.

Ventura County Sheriff's Capt. Frank O'Hanlon said about 100 people demonstrating in favor of health care reforms rallied Wednesday night on a street corner. One protester walked across the street to confront about 25 counter-demonstrators.

O'Hanlon said the man got into an argument and fist fight, during which he bit off the left pinky of a 65-year-old man who opposed health care reform.

A hospital spokeswoman said the man lost half the finger, but doctors reattached it and he was sent home the same night.

She said he had Medicare."

The KTLA version originally posted at the top of this thread seemingly tries to shift the blame somewhat onto the victim, saying he was the one who started the fight. But this version from KTVU says the attacker waded into the anti-health-reform protesters specifically because he wanted to "confront" them.

Which version is accurate?

Either way: I predict that this will not get anywhere near the amount of coverage as the "gun stunt," even though in this case actual violence was involved. Because in this case it doesn't fit the narrative of which side is supposed to be violent.

That would make a big difference if true. If the lefty went looking for trouble, the it casts said lefty in a much worse light.

156 Cato  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:40:44am

re: #141 Charles

The Truther position is consistent with statements I have HEARD him make.

157 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:41:04am

Is Thousand Oaks anywhere near the famous Finger Lakes?

158 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:41:06am

OT, but we're over 100 posts

Ahmadinejad confirms proposals over their nuclear program, and the suspect in the Argentinian bombing has been confirmed as defense minister.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad vowed Thursday that Iran would not bend to deadlines, but confirmed that a new package of proposals had been given to the West in the nuclear standoff.


It came after his new government won broad backing from parliament - including a defense minister wanted by Argentina for a deadly 1994 bombing of the AMIA Jewish cultural center.


I guess the next bombing of a Jewish cultural center will involve nukes.
And the head of AMIA is pissed.

Meanwhile, in an exclusive interview with Agencia Judía de Noticias, AMIA's Vice President, José Scaliter, blasted Vahidi's appointment, and accused the UN and Interpol of caring for economic interests before expulsing Iran. He pointed out that the "Argentinean Government has a balanced policy, in which we have the feeling that the Government is trying to please everybody. In this case, such thing cannot be done. This is a serious issue and it has to set its position."


He accused that the member countries of UN and Interpol "have commercial interests with Iran, that due to their internal pressures cannot be broken".
"It is serious that the UN doesn't condemn effectively a member country that is promoting the disappearance of another member country."


And last I heard, the UN will still have Ahmadinejad giving a talk there.

159 Thor's Screwdriver  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:41:07am

(Metadata)This is what I have gleaned from the LA Times online article...so it is the absolute truth:
*65 yr old man supposedly was opposed to the single payer healthcare plan
*65 yr old man apparently had finger bitten off
*65 yr old man was reportedly (acting aggressive as Charles put it) and/or assaulted the biter/Moveon-affiliated single payer healthcare supporter (according to a 3rd person account of eyewitness/Moveon-affiliated/single payer healthcare supporter) as told by the actual biter.

The article includes a photo: A healthy little finger similar to one bitten off at a healthcare rally near Los Angeles on Wednesday night. Credit: Reuters

160 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:41:08am

re: #42 Charles

The latest hyperventilation -- Gateway Pundit is yelling that he found Van Jones' name on a list of people calling for 9/11 investigations on a Truther site. He says Jones "signed" the list.

It apparently hasn't occurred to him that Truthers tend to lie, and that anyone can put any name at all on a web page -- and he appears to have no interest in confirming that it's really Van Jones before trumpeting it to the world.

If those Truthers are lying in this case, they are in serious legal trouble. They have many many prominent people's names on that list, and if it's all a lie and they're slandering them, they can be sued into oblivion by every person named on the list.

However, scanning the full list, it is full of truther-leaning celebs. And from what I know of Van Jones (and I know a lot -- much more than the public knows) I would not be surprised in the slightest that he was a Truther. He has bought into many of the Black Nationalist myths and urban legends, and truthism has become a standard menu item in that milieu.

I also wouldn't be surprised that he will now backpedal and try to deny it, claiming his name was added without his permission. He's the king of changing the story after the fact.

161 Fenway_Nation  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:41:19am

re: #137 Diego

Yes...we must dutifully wait for MoveOn.org's sincere and unbiased version of the incident.

162 KenJen  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:41:20am

Mark Steyn just said it was the anti-Obama guy who lost his finger. I'm stumped.

163 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:41:21am

re: #124 zombie

Either way: I predict that this will not get anywhere near the amount of coverage as the "gun stunt," even though in this case actual violence was involved. Because in this case it doesn't fit the narrative of which side is supposed to be violent.


I don't see it as serious. There was a scuffle, the guy got his finger reattached. These things happen. Nobody in this cases was talking about killing anybody, much less the president. Nobody was armed. I don't think this is really a big deal and the cops will deal with it.

164 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:41:23am

re: #149 MTF

Karma: 67


MTF
(Logged in)
Registered since: Apr 16, 2007 at 6:35 pm
No. of comments posted: 56
No. of links posted: 0

165 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:41:24am

re: #127 Charles

No. The only thing that shows is that his name is on that list. It does not prove at all that he "signed" it. And there are a LOT of names on that particular list, many of whom are not kooks. This story smells of distortion to me.

Agreed.
But I do suspect we'll be seeing Van Jones resigning his post somewhat soon.

166 itellu3times  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:41:25am

Mark Steyn subbing for Rush make many many jokes about this.

The interesting detail is that the toothy perp ran off.

167 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:41:29am

re: #156 Cato

The Truther position is consistent with statements I have HEARD him make.

That's nice. They're still Truthers, and they're still liars.

168 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:41:35am

re: #155 Dark_Falcon

That would make a big difference if true. If the lefty went looking for trouble, the it casts said lefty in a much worse light.

Yes, it would. We'll have to see how this pans out and who did what to whom.

169 Ojoe  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:41:47am

As it was only the left pinky he can still play bagpipes.


BBL

170 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:41:54am

re: #157 Mad Al-Jaffee

Is Thousand Oaks anywhere near the famous Finger Lakes?

Well, it is in the same state as Donner Pass.

171 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:42:06am

Something doesn't add up here - everyone knows that teeth can't melt bone!

172 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:42:09am

Can't get "Waiting for Guffman" out of my head now.

Has anybody ever flounced with this link?

I kind of hope so.

173 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:42:28am
174 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:42:32am

re: #162 KenJen

Mark Steyn just said it was the anti-Obama guy who lost his finger. I'm stumped.

[snicker]

175 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:42:46am

An eye for an eye, a finger for a finger and this could get out of hand.

176 Ojoe  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:42:47am

re: #162 KenJen

But you are only stumped a little...

177 MTF  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:42:58am

re: #151 thedopefishlives

Sorry- I answered a call before pushing post and didn't see it!

178 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:43:02am

re: #131 Ojoe

This is happening on Obama's watch.

He is setting the tone.

It is madness.

I fervently pray that he is a one term president and that the next president brings the country back together.

I disagree 100 %. If anything, Obama's tone has been consistently mellow, perhaps too much so for my taste in the face of some of the ridiculous attacks on him because for some the right hates the left, and of course, the reverse.

179 Eowyn2  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:43:20am

re: #9 astronmr20

At a glance, looks like there really should not be any side screaming "victimhood" here.

I don't advocate biting off someone's fingers unless you are in danger for your life, but looks like these two were swinging at each other and neither deserves the "victim" metal.

The possibility exists that the biter (whose age and details are not given) went 'through the anti group to get to the other side' on purpose and the situation could have been avoided unless the anti group was encircling the pro group and someone just stepped out to pee.

WHY would anyone bite the hand of a 65 yr old?
I have sneaky suspicion that biter picked bitee out of the crowd to harass and bit off more than he could chew.

180 debutaunt  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:43:23am

re: #163 Killgore Trout

I don't see it as serious. There was a scuffle, the guy got his finger reattached. These things happen. Nobody in this cases was talking about killing anybody, much less the president. Nobody was armed. I don't think this is really a big deal and the cops will deal with it.

I hope the victim wasn't a violinist or pianist or...

181 saylorfam  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:43:29am

What a great idea for a lunch time thread. I like the sick sense of humor and timing!

182 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:43:45am

re: #159 Thor's Screwdriver

(Metadata)This is what I have gleaned from the LA Times online article...so it is the absolute truth:
*65 yr old man supposedly was opposed to the single payer healthcare plan
*65 yr old man apparently had finger bitten off
*65 yr old man was reportedly (acting aggressive as Charles put it) and/or assaulted the biter/Moveon-affiliated single payer healthcare supporter (according to a 3rd person account of eyewitness/Moveon-affiliated/single payer healthcare supporter) as told by the actual biter.

The article includes a photo: A healthy little finger similar to one bitten off at a healthcare rally near Los Angeles on Wednesday night. Credit: Reuters

For your first post, here's a first upding. Welcome to LGF!

183 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:44:08am

re: #163 Killgore Trout

I'm actually appalled. Biting off a finger is a pretty scary and violent thing to do.

184 Baier  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:44:23am

re: #180 debutaunt

I hope the victim wasn't a violinist or pianist or...

pinky ring model.

185 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:44:25am

re: #159 Thor's Screwdriver

(Metadata)This is what I have gleaned from the LA Times online article...so it is the absolute truth:
*65 yr old man supposedly was opposed to the single payer healthcare plan
*65 yr old man apparently had finger bitten off
*65 yr old man was reportedly (acting aggressive as Charles put it) and/or assaulted the biter/Moveon-affiliated single payer healthcare supporter (according to a 3rd person account of eyewitness/Moveon-affiliated/single payer healthcare supporter) as told by the actual biter.

The article includes a photo: A healthy little finger similar to one bitten off at a healthcare rally near Los Angeles on Wednesday night. Credit: Reuters

Matches the report of the eyewitness on Rush, caller on Rush claims to have recovered the finger and took it to the hospital.

186 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:44:30am

re: #131 Ojoe

This is happening on Obama's watch.

He is setting the tone.

It is madness.

I fervently pray that he is a one term president and that the next president brings the country back together.

Repeat after me: "I inherited this ___ from George W. Bush."

187 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:44:32am

re: #183 Dianna

I'm actually appalled. Biting off a finger is a pretty scary and violent thing to do.

Concur.

188 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:44:40am

re: #124 zombie

Either way: I predict that this will not get anywhere near the amount of coverage as the "gun stunt," even though in this case actual violence was involved. Because in this case it doesn't fit the narrative of which side is supposed to be violent.


It has already gotten more attention than this: Health care advocate punched by opponent at Florida event

189 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:44:48am

re: #178 avanti

I disagree 100 %. If anything, Obama's tone has been consistently mellow, perhaps too much so for my taste in the face of some of the ridiculous attacks on him because for some the right hates the left, and of course, the reverse.

I could not possibly agree more with this. Dead on. I'd prefer if he was, personally, more aggressive and feel (my opinion) that his lack of aggressiveness is being reflected in the current polling.

190 saylorfam  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:44:52am

re: #183 Dianna

I guess it is a good thing that Lorena Bobbitt wasn't in the crowd...

191 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:44:55am

There is an eyewitness talking to Mark Steyn on Rush's show right now.

192 subsailor68  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:44:59am

I'm waiting for a statement from Code Pinkie.

193 Baier  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:45:07am

re: #183 Dianna

I'm actually appalled. Biting off a finger is a pretty scary and violent thing to do.

What do you mean? It's no big whoop. They sowed the thing on again. I bet the guy is laughing about it now.//

194 fizzlogic  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:45:10am

re: #131 Ojoe

It's the RW media/pundits that are setting the tone. At some point you have to realize the Right is full of shit.

195 Ojoe  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:45:11am

re: #178 avanti

Obama brings up this perhaps expensive law at the wrong time.

The economy & deficit should be taken care of first.

A wise leader would not try for this health care thing right now.


BBL, BBL.

196 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:45:22am

re: #163 Killgore Trout

I don't see it as serious. There was a scuffle, the guy got his finger reattached. These things happen. Nobody in this cases was talking about killing anybody, much less the president. Nobody was armed. I don't think this is really a big deal and the cops will deal with it.

Killgore - whether the finger was reattached or not - it got bitten off. That's not "serious"?

197 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:45:47am

re: #196 reine.de.tout

Killgore - whether the finger was reattached or not - it got bitten off. That's not "serious"?

It's just a flesh wound.

/I had to!

198 Ojoe  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:45:55am

re: #194 trendsurfer

To the top full

BBL !

199 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:45:55am

re: #192 subsailor68

I'm waiting for a statement from Code Pinkie.

I always give those guys the finger. And with that, it's off to work with me. BBT

200 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:46:05am

re: #150 Mad Al-Jaffee

I wonder if either of them was armed?

The lefty just bit the guy's finger because he wanted a joint.

201 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:46:09am

re: #196 reine.de.tout

Killgore - whether the finger was reattached or not - it got bitten off. That's not "serious"?

It's just pinin'.

202 jill e  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:46:12am

Of course, it's not cannibalism unless you swallow.

203 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:46:14am

re: #163 Killgore Trout

I don't see it as serious.

I always see it as serious when people result to violence.

204 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:46:20am

re: #183 Dianna

We are bound to see a few fist fights as tempers flare. I'm just happy nobody got killed.

205 KenJen  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:46:25am

re: #176 Ojoe

But you are only stumped a little...

Gnaw. I'm very stumped.

206 buster  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:46:28am

Soylent Green is people!!!

207 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:46:38am

re: #170 Honorary Yooper

Well, it is in the same state as Donner Pass.

In case you ever want to look at the site: I-80 Donner Pass

208 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:46:39am

re: #202 jill e

Of course, it's not cannibalism unless you swallow.

He just wanted to serve Man.

209 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:46:43am

What a couple of knuckleheads!

210 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:46:53am

re: #160 zombie

If those Truthers are lying in this case, they are in serious legal trouble. They have many many prominent people's names on that list, and if it's all a lie and they're slandering them, they can be sued into oblivion by every person named on the list.

However, scanning the full list, it is full of truther-leaning celebs. And from what I know of Van Jones (and I know a lot -- much more than the public knows) I would not be surprised in the slightest that he was a Truther. He has bought into many of the Black Nationalist myths and urban legends, and truthism has become a standard menu item in that milieu.

I also wouldn't be surprised that he will now backpedal and try to deny it, claiming his name was added without his permission. He's the king of changing the story after the fact.

And this is the first time I heard of this story, this possibility that he is a Truther, but I just spent 30 minutes searching for anything that would debunk this contention, and I can't find anything.

I would say it's up to the people who suspect this story is a lie, that they need to show some proof of that.

211 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:46:54am

re: #113 Lee Coller

According to the internet archive, Van Jones was a signatory from at least Jan 22, 2005. While it would be nice to confirm this through his own statements, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out the allegation is true, as far as I know he was a relative unknown back then.

re: #127 Charles

No. The only thing that shows is that his name is on that list. It does not prove at all that he "signed" it. And there are a LOT of names on that particular list, many of whom are not kooks. This story smells of distortion to me.


re: #136 Cato

It is more credible than not based on his statements that the government has poisoned minorities.

re: #141 Charles

No, it's not credible. It comes from a 9/11 Truth site. Good grief.


Charles, Van Jones is perhaps a lot kookier than you imagine. He's absolutely flaky. I have not published anything about him because I'm "too close to the story" and need to preserve my anonymity, but he has indeed bought into and promulgated all sorts of wacked out conspiracy theories, including stuff like the government poisoning black people, the death penalty being an attempt at genocide against minorities, etc. etc. Truthism, if indeed he is a believer, would be the least of his eccentricities.

212 debutaunt  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:00am

re: #189 Diego

I could not possibly agree more with this. Dead on. I'd prefer if he was, personally, more aggressive and feel (my opinion) that his lack of aggressiveness is being reflected in the current polling.

I was hoping he would say that the finger-biting was done stupidly.

213 kcladderman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:01am

Now lets just all settle down and count to 9 1/2

214 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:08am

re: #144 Honorary Yooper

I've heard of those statements and would like to know more. If indeed Van Jones said such things about the government poisoning minorities, that's troubling.

I guess it must be based on comments about migrate workers exposed to pesticides, but I'd prefer a link to the comment.

215 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:09am

re: #204 Killgore Trout

We are bound to see a few fist fights as tempers flare. I'm just happy nobody got killed.

However, a fist fight is one thing. This was someone thinking he was part of the fricking Donner Party.

216 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:09am

re: #204 Killgore Trout

We are bound to see a few fist fights as tempers flare. I'm just happy nobody got killed.

Should I be worried about Cato's actual whereabouts?

217 ibn abu revisited  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:14am

Eyewitness accounts are that the bespectacled, elderly anti-health-care-reform protester was attacked by the pro-reform protester, swung in self-defense, and had his finger bitten off. Charles, your attempt to paint the elderly guy as the instigator is in error.

218 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:19am

Van Jones: "the white polluters, the white environmentalist, are steering poison into the black community."

Youtube Video
219 Fenway_Nation  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:21am

re: #189 Diego


Yeah...it's not like cramming through thousands and thousands of pages of unread legislation with a false sense of urgency has anything to do with the dropping poll numbers.

He should be the same fuckup he is right now, just more aggressive about it...gotchya.

220 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:45am

re: #171 Mad Al-Jaffee

Something doesn't add up here - everyone knows that teeth can't melt bone!

Are you going out on a limb with that statement?

221 Last Mohican  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:46am

re: #163 Killgore Trout

I don't see it as serious. There was a scuffle, the guy got his finger reattached. These things happen. Nobody in this cases was talking about killing anybody, much less the president. Nobody was armed. I don't think this is really a big deal and the cops will deal with it.

I disagree. Finger amputation is a big deal. Fingers don't come with threaded sockets. Reattaching one is a difficult operation, and, if it's even possible, it's unlikely that the digit will function as well as it did.

222 Eowyn2  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:58am

re: #148 buzzsawmonkey

I've got to hand it to you there.

are you going to palm that pun off on us?

223 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:58am

re: #196 reine.de.tout

Killgore - whether the finger was reattached or not - it got bitten off. That's not "serious"?

It's not like he bit off his head. /

224 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:48:18am

re: #211 zombie

Charles, Van Jones is perhaps a lot kookier than you imagine. He's absolutely flaky. I have not published anything about him because I'm "too close to the story" and need to preserve my anonymity, but he has indeed bought into and promulgated all sorts of wacked out conspiracy theories, including stuff like the government poisoning black people, the death penalty being an attempt at genocide against minorities, etc. etc. Truthism, if indeed he is a believer, would be the least of his eccentricities.

That doesn't mean the Twoofers are credible. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

225 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:48:46am
226 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:48:59am

re: #224 thedopefishlives

What Charles is saying (and I agree) is that we shouldn't jump to conclusions, assuming it is his name on the list. Anyone could've put that name up there, I assume.

227 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:49:19am

re: #210 Walter L. Newton

And this is the first time I heard of this story, this possibility that he is a Truther, but I just spent 30 minutes searching for anything that would debunk this contention, and I can't find anything.

I would say it's up to the people who suspect this story is a lie, that they need to show some proof of that.

Anything on a 9/11 Truth site is automatically suspect. It's up to the people making the accusation to prove it. Doubt is the only rational position when it comes to statements made by Truthers.

228 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:49:21am

re: #202 jill e

Of course, it's not cannibalism unless you swallow.

It was a tasting...

229 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:49:27am

re: #211 zombie

Can you have somebody else publish your material?

230 Baier  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:49:38am

re: #204 Killgore Trout

We are bound to see a few fist fights as tempers flare. I'm just happy nobody got killed.

I don't think either of these guys are helping the situation...but biting someone's finger off crosses some line beyond "fist fight" and enters the arena of the seriously unwell.
I've said before, the only reason I would be for Obamacare is so some of these nuts can afford the mental health help they need.

231 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:49:39am

re: #193 Baier

What do you mean? It's no big whoop. They sowed the thing on again. I bet the guy is laughing about it now.//

Sorry, I'm not getting into the humor. Too tired.

I keep getting this cold sinking sensation in my stomach, remembering when I broke two fingers. Yuck.

232 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:49:47am

re: #153 Dianna

Wait - the man whose finger was bitten off is elderly?

What?

Zombie, your story is making me more confused than ever. An elderly guy took a swing at someone who approached him? What?

re: #155 Dark_Falcon

That would make a big difference if true. If the lefty went looking for trouble, the it casts said lefty in a much worse light.

According to the KTVU story -- which is a very credible news source -- the pro-health-bill guy went over to confront the anti-health protesters, and then bit one of their fingers off. KTVU claims he started it.

And yes, the victim was 65 years old -- and (ironically) had medicare.

233 Thor's Screwdriver  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:49:56am

re: #182 Dark_Falcon

Thanks. Long time lurker. Took the day off of work to have a long Labor Day weekend. Gave me a chance to play. I took so long reviewing multiple sources and making sure I was reading the info correctly, by the time I posted I was already outdated.

234 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:49:59am

re: #217 ibn abu revisited

Eyewitness accounts are that the bespectacled, elderly anti-health-care-reform protester was attacked by the pro-reform protester, swung in self-defense, and had his finger bitten off. Charles, your attempt to paint the elderly guy as the instigator is in error.

It's not MY attempt. That is the article as it was published, based on eyewitness accounts.

Good grief. Here we go again.

235 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:50:09am

The young man who witnessed the whole thing and recovered the finger was just on Rush.../Mark Stein...
Tried to find the carnivore with police was not successful

236 jorline  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:50:17am

Lunch Special

Anti-Obamacare Pinky Fingers...but what dipping sauce?

237 buster  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:50:18am

re: #208 Kosh's Shadow

He just wanted to serve Man.

Rod Serling said it's a great Cookbook. I couldn't find any seafood recipes though.

238 wintercat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:50:21am

I get the bitten off part. That is clear enough. It is the assault part that I would like some more details about.

239 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:50:46am

re: #217 ibn abu revisited

You're blocked, and so are your other two sock puppets.

240 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:51:06am

re: #164 haakondahl

Karma: 67

MTF
(Logged in)
Registered since: Apr 16, 2007 at 6:35 pm
No. of comments posted: 56
No. of links posted: 0

Doesn't post much. Suspect it doesn't read much either. Certainly didn't read the thread first.

241 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:51:17am

re: #237 buster

Rod Serling said it's a great Cookbook. I couldn't find any seafood recipes though.

And the only vegetarian recipes are ...
about cooking vegetarians.

242 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:52:10am

From the article:


Ventura County Sheriff's Capt. Frank O'Hanlon says the man had Medicare.

hmmm. We often hear about the medical plans of the injured in news articles. NOT. I think I will reserve my opinion on the accuracy of this sequence of events. I suspect this reporter .

243 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:52:19am

re: #204 Killgore Trout

We are bound to see a few fist fights as tempers flare. I'm just happy nobody got killed.

Oh, no disagreement at all with that. It's just...well, you cook, so you've probably cut yourself badly. A fist fight is one thing, unpleasant and uncivilized; but biting off a finger bothers me.

244 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:52:46am

re: #234 Charles

It's not MY attempt. That is the article as it was published, based on eyewitness accounts.

Good grief. Here we go again.

It's going to take awhile for the story to settle out. Even then I bet my bottom dollar we'll have too competing version of who started this kindergarten brawl.

245 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:52:51am

Serves you right, Charles, for attempting to paint old men.

246 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:52:55am

re: #241 Kosh's Shadow

And the only vegetarian recipes are ...
about cooking vegetarians.

Ha Ha! hey!

247 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:53:21am

Good thing no doggies were walking around the area.

248 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:54:00am

re: #229 HelloDare

Can you have somebody else publish your material?

I don't know...the Van Jones stuff makes me nervous. I'm too close to it, and the people involved are a bit too scary for my taste. I'll have to think about it.

249 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:54:02am

re: #214 avanti

I guess it must be based on comments about migrate workers exposed to pesticides, but I'd prefer a link to the comment.

There's a meme running around in some black nationalist circles that the government has been deliberately trying to poison minorities or kill them with diseases. I've heard it before.

250 Fenway_Nation  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:54:11am

re: #163 Killgore Trout

I don't see it as serious. There was a scuffle, the guy got his finger reattached.

Of course you don't see it as serious- it wasn't your finger.

251 subsailor68  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:54:14am

Hmmm...it would appear that LA County is No County for Old Men.

252 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:54:30am

Actually given Van Jones loony left-wing rants and his hatred for all conservatives it did not cross my mind he wasn't a truther.

253 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:54:43am

re: #208 Kosh's Shadow

He just wanted to serve Man.

Pinky tartar.

Yecch!

254 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:54:52am

re: #247 unrealizedviewpoint

According to (Scott) ,the dude that recovered the finger, it was out in the traffic lane and would have been run over...

255 jill e  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:55:07am

“I believe that if ever I had to practice cannibalism, I might manage if there were enough tarragon around.” —James Beard

256 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:55:24am

re: #248 zombie

I don't know...the Van Jones stuff makes me nervous. I'm too close to it, and the people involved are a bit too scary for my taste. I'll have to think about it.

Is there a way to sanitize the sourcing, send it too another lizard, using throw away one time email accounts and pass it on to a final editor?

257 Lee Coller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:55:30am

re: #19 Lee Coller

All of you who think this is simply another case of leftist violence, see the post referenced in the link above. This is an eyewitness account of the individuals involved (though she didn't see the actual biting). It's clear that the Anti-Reform guy was the instigator.

258 SFGoth  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:55:40am

re: #213 kcladderman

Now lets just all settle down and count to 9 1/2

I can count to 11.

259 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:55:49am

re: #227 Charles

Anything on a 9/11 Truth site is automatically suspect. It's up to the people making the accusation to prove it. Doubt is the only rational position when it comes to statements made by Truthers.

This story about Van Jones, appears to me, to have been in the public for a while now, and passed on to many sites. I know if I were Van Jones, I would have spoken out about it. I can't find any statement from him in regards to this.

Interesting.

260 Last Mohican  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:55:51am

We have four spinoff links for this thread, the first three of which were posted by two of the usual suspects, linking to their own blogs again.

I see that photonh2o has contributed five comments over the years, in addition to his or her 516 spinoff links. Here's my question: has photonh2o ever posted a link to something other than his or her blog? I have definitely seen him or her upding other people's links, so clearly he or she is not here only for blog-pimping.

261 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:55:55am

This happened in Thousand Oaks, in Ventura County, just a few blocks from my sisters home. I grew up in Thousand Oaks, it's a quiet suburb.

And as it turns out, I know at least one person who was there, a very Leftwing friend of mine. I will try to get more information, but from what I've heard so far, there was a great deal of screaming between the two groups, and then one of the pro-Obamacare protesters became so enraged that he stormed across the street, straight into the smaller group of counter protesters. Pushing and shoving ensued, and the pro-Obamacare fellow was knocked to the ground. At this point he went berserk and before anyone knew what had happened, he had bitten the finger off of the man who hit him to the ground. And then, with blood dripping from his mouth, ran off down the road.

This is how I just heard the story from the husband of my friend who witnessed the event.

262 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:56:04am

re: #248 zombie

I don't know...the Van Jones stuff makes me nervous. I'm too close to it, and the people involved are a bit too scary for my taste. I'll have to think about it.

You weren't married to him or anything were you?/

263 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:56:20am

re: #218 unrealizedviewpoint

It sounds like he was saying polluters tend to be on poorer, minority areas, where they face fewer legal issues. I'd like more context than that small clip to see what he was addressing, but even that clip did not show the government poisoning minorities.

264 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:56:27am

I'm just trying to get my mind around the mechanics of the thing. Biting off a finger must be incredibly difficult unless you get right between bones at a joint. At least then you have some leverage wirking the tension for you (because unless your teeth are like steak knives, you're pulling the finger off, not slicing).
Even then, there's no possibility of accidentally biting a finger OFF. You have to really be trying, and perhaps twisting your head about to get the deed done.
So it seems to me anyway. I could be wrong.

265 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:56:28am

re: #211 zombie

Van Jones will be under the bus before lunch on the 9th.

266 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:57:01am

re: #265 unrealizedviewpoint

Van Jones will be under the bus before lunch on the 9th.

Van under the bus. Is that possible?

267 Onslow  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:57:47am

re: #266 HelloDare

At monster truck shows.

268 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:57:55am

re: #249 Honorary Yooper

There's a meme running around in some black nationalist circles that the government has been deliberately trying to poison minorities or kill them with diseases. I've heard it before.

As have I, but not by Jones.

269 Eowyn2  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:58:05am

re: #38 _RememberTonyC

Vincent Van Gogh would approve ...


I ear you on that one guv.

270 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:58:07am

I don't and can't agree with 'truthers', but it does piss me off that Bush got a report and (apparently, and correct me if I'm misinformed) didn't take action. Again, I'm willing to be educated if my understanding isn't accurate.

271 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:58:18am

re: #234 Charles

It's not MY attempt. That is the article as it was published, based on eyewitness accounts.

Good grief. Here we go again.

There are conflicting news reports. We don't know the full story yet. The story in the legitimate L.A. source that you saw did indeed seemingly shift the blame onto the victim a bit. But I was unaware of that spin on things until I saw this thread, because the versions published up here spun it the other way.

I predict MUCH spinning will now occur in the media on this story, with eyewitnesses from both sides of the street claiming the other side started the fight.

Until I see a video of what happened, I will try to remain skeptical!

272 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:59:01am

re: #235 reloadingisnotahobby

The young man who witnessed the whole thing and recovered the finger was just on Rush.../Mark Stein...

What did he say?

273 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:59:32am

re: #269 Eowyn2

I ear you on that one guv.

could you come over here on my right hand side ... I couldn't hear what you said.

274 Lincolntf  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:59:41am

re: #271 zombie

Is there word of a video yet?

275 kcladderman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:59:41am

re: #267 Onslow

At monster truck shows.

Then it would be on the 6th because that is
SUNDAY
SUNDAY
SUNDAY

276 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:59:46am

Think of the money we've just saved by rationing the man's fingers!

277 brent  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:00:00am

I saw something* showing a chimp attack, and not coincidentally, a big part of the attack was biting off of fingers. It's a brutal, non-human thing to do. Seriously.

It was bad enough when it was chimp on human - it's horribly deflating to know that we've got people devolving among us. Seriously, that's a horrible line to cross.

*Monsterquest - a guilty pleasure...

278 BlackFedora  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:00:01am

So glad to see that enlightened debate is winning the day in these times...

/sarcasm

279 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:00:03am
280 Dreader1962  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:00:11am

re: #264 haakondahl

I'm just trying to get my mind around the mechanics of the thing. Biting off a finger must be incredibly difficult unless you get right between bones at a joint. At least then you have some leverage wirking the tension for you (because unless your teeth are like steak knives, you're pulling the finger off, not slicing).
Even then, there's no possibility of accidentally biting a finger OFF. You have to really be trying, and perhaps twisting your head about to get the deed done.
So it seems to me anyway. I could be wrong.

/Is this based upon experience?

281 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:00:22am

re: #274 Lincolntf

That is the only way to get to the legitimate truth of the event.

282 claire  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:00:26am

Wow- Van Jones started Color of Change, which started the boycott against Beck for the Obama comments. Yeah, I'm behind the curve...just catching up.

283 Syrah  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:00:29am

A provocative debate . . .

284 jill e  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:00:40am

We also don't know WHICH finger!

285 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:00:43am

re: #244 jcm

It's going to take awhile for the story to settle out. Even then I bet my bottom dollar we'll have too competing version of who started this kindergarten brawl.

Yup.

I need video before I render an opinion. No news source is to be trusted anymore.

286 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:00:54am

Eyewitness account: Health Care Vigil in Thousand Oaks: Provocation to violent response.

There were around 150 supporters of health care reform present on the northeast corner of Lynn Road and Hillcrest in Thousand Oaks. I was one of them. To get to that corner, we had to park in the Oaks Mall parking lot, walk to the light, cross a small thruway and then cross Hillcrest, which is a very large street.[photo here looking across to those opposed, posted in real time before the incident].

In order to get from the parking lot to the vigil, we were required to walk through the group of people opposed to health care reform. As you can see in the photo, they were originally staged right before the crosswalk to the thruway, so there was no way to avoid walking through their group.

The mood on our side of the street was passionate, happy, and dedicated. There were no violent words spoken. For the most part, we were supported loudly by passers-by, who honked their horns and waved their support. When someone passed by who disagreed, we actually had conversations with them while they waited for the light.

To be clear here: There were no threats, no dark moods, and there was no mob. I repeat, there was no mob. We were peaceful people holding candles and signs.

One petite woman was also handing out single payer flyers. She was passionate about it, but not rude, not mean, always smiled, and simply offered the flyer. At some point, she crossed back over (she may have run out of her flyer supply. I don’t know for sure. But she was not in any way confrontational.)

All of a sudden, I saw a very tall man in an orange shirt (yes, he is in the photo I linked you to) confront her, verbally at first. Her back was to the thruway, and he was shooing her, approaching her, speaking to her in a very aggressive fashion (observation from body language only) and waving his arms in a shooing motion. With each step she took back, he took one forward, shooing her more. From where I was, it appeared as though he were telling her to get on her own side of the street, and backing it up with a very clear physical threat. Even from where I stood, it chilled me. I pointed it out to others and called out for anyone with a video camera to aim it over there. (I had a small Nikon cam with me that does video, but it would have been useless in that light.)

Ultimately, she did cross the street and come back over to our side.

Several minutes later, there was another altercation. My best recollection is that this man saw what happened to the woman and reacted to it. I cannot say with certainty where he was when he saw it — he may have arrived and was navigating his way through that group, or he may have crossed the street to defend her. He was confronted by the same man. I could tell from where I was that the man was belligerent, angry, and confrontational.

The man in the orange shirt hit the pro-reform guy (I’m going to call him PR Guy just to keep the players straight). Hard. ( tweeted in real time) He punched him in the face, knocked him to the ground and into that thruway. As you can see from the photo, cars drive straight through that without stopping. The pro-reform guy could have been run over. He got up, tried to get back up on the curb, but Orange Shirt guy was in his face. Finger in his face, PR Guy standing, steps up to the curb, and there’s a scuffle. Orange shirt seemed to have PR Guy in a hold, but again, I was across the street, so won’t state that as absolute fact. Next thing I see is PR Guy’s hat being tossed into the street, both yelling at one another, then Orange shirt walks away, PR Guy picks up hat and crosses to our side.

When he gets to our side, he tells a story in one sentence: “He punched me hard, straight in the face, so I bit his finger off.”

287 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:01:16am

re: #261 Ringo the Gringo

Makes more sense.

288 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:01:37am

re: #257 Lee Coller

All of you who think this is simply another case of leftist violence, see the post referenced in the link above. This is an eyewitness account of the individuals involved (though she didn't see the actual biting). It's clear that the Anti-Reform guy was the instigator.

So we have dueling eye-witnesses, each with a very strong agenda.

Joy.

289 calvin coolidge  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:01:51am

I've been to several townhall meetings. There's something very wrong with the Obamacare plan but I just can't put my finger on it.

290 wintercat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:01:52am

re: #271 zombie

There are conflicting news reports. We don't know the full story yet. The story in the legitimate L.A. source that you saw did indeed seemingly shift the blame onto the victim a bit. But I was unaware of that spin on things until I saw this thread, because the versions published up here spun it the other way.

I predict MUCH spinning will now occur in the media on this story, with eyewitnesses from both sides of the street claiming the other side started the fight.

Until I see a video of what happened, I will try to remain skeptical!

I read the original article on Drudge a couple of hours ago. I had to read it several times just to figure out who did what to whom. Not well 'ritten I'd say!

291 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:01:58am

re: #264 haakondahl

I'm just trying to get my mind around the mechanics of the thing. Biting off a finger must be incredibly difficult unless you get right between bones at a joint. At least then you have some leverage wirking the tension for you (because unless your teeth are like steak knives, you're pulling the finger off, not slicing).
Even then, there's no possibility of accidentally biting a finger OFF. You have to really be trying, and perhaps twisting your head about to get the deed done.
So it seems to me anyway. I could be wrong.

Correct, I've seen my fair avulsed (torn) incised digits, it takes a fair amount of force, and intent. The initial bite it's pretty obvious to both parties what's going on, and to completely remove the digit means the biter had to knowingly continue with the action.

292 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:02:39am

Anyone who has ever raised two boys has had just this much fun sorting out who did what.

Of course, I'm bigger than they are (for now) and can stop serious harm.

293 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:03:00am

re: #261 Ringo the Gringo

This happened in Thousand Oaks, in Ventura County, just a few blocks from my sisters home. I grew up in Thousand Oaks, it's a quiet suburb.

And as it turns out, I know at least one person who was there, a very Leftwing friend of mine. I will try to get more information, but from what I've heard so far, there was a great deal of screaming between the two groups, and then one of the pro-Obamacare protesters became so enraged that he stormed across the street, straight into the smaller group of counter protesters. Pushing and shoving ensued, and the pro-Obamacare fellow was knocked to the ground. At this point he went berserk and before anyone knew what had happened, he had bitten the finger off of the man who hit him to the ground. And then, with blood dripping from his mouth, ran off down the road.

This is how I just heard the story from the husband of my friend who witnessed the event.

THNAK YOU for an actual eyewitness account!

294 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:03:09am

re: #261 Ringo the Gringo

Thank you.

Now we have three eye-witness accounts.

295 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:03:24am

re: #262 HelloDare

You weren't married to him or anything were you?/

Heh.

296 Dreader1962  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:03:25am

re: #279 buzzsawmonkey

You are, if memory serves, a luthier. As someone who works in a skilled profession, for people who require full use of their fingers, you should be very much aware that the hand is a complex thing, and that that even temporary injury to one of its parts is a serious impairment.

That the finger was reattached is good; that does not mean that it can or will function fully. Damage to a hand is serious, even if it is not one's primary hand.

Furthermore, this story shows the level of personal craziness that seems to be washing through the populace. It is not easy to bite off a finger. The outbreak of physical altercation (as opposed to mere rude and over the top shouting) is bad enough--but for someone to be so overwhelmed with passion and rage as to be willing and able to rend off someone's body part is horrific.

During an airborne op I was part of, one of the guys messed up with his static line and it ripped off three of the fingers of his left hand as well as the tip of his index finger. We spent quite a while searching the field, but found them all - I found the three still connected with wedding ring and another group found the tip of the index finger. They attempted to re-attach all of them, but wound up only salvaging his ring finger and middle finger. It's never good to have your hand seriously injured.

297 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:03:27am

re: #272 zombie

Basically that the Pro Obama dude started a scuffle and the victim was like the smallest man in the group...( 65 w/ glasses)
Scott...was freaked out but had the presence of mind to retrive the finger call 911 and they said the closest Hosp was LoS Robles.
They found the vic being treated and gave the finger to attending Phys...
Returned and found the police and walked thru the O supporters but could not find "Hannibal"!
That's about it Zom...

298 leon77  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:03:48am

Oh boy...this makes reasoned criticism of govt health care harder...democrats will love this.

299 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:04:05am

re: #274 Lincolntf

Is there word of a video yet?

Not that I know of.

300 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:04:17am

re: #272 zombie

Seems to me they should be able ID this guy from new footage!

301 Fenway_Nation  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:04:20am

re: #270 Diego

Just like I'm sure you were pissed at Clinton's non-response to the USS Cole bombing...and his likely dismissal of any reports prior to the bombing.

/

302 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:04:34am

re: #270 Diego

I don't and can't agree with 'truthers', but it does piss me off that Bush got a report and (apparently, and correct me if I'm misinformed) didn't take action. Again, I'm willing to be educated if my understanding isn't accurate.

The report was titled something like: Al Quida plans to attack in the US, but there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides.

303 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:04:35am

Did it taste like chicken?

304 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:04:57am

re: #189 Diego

I could not possibly agree more with this. Dead on. I'd prefer if he was, personally, more aggressive and feel (my opinion) that his lack of aggressiveness is being reflected in the current polling.

Passive-aggressiveness doesn't count?

305 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:05:04am

Well, crap... this was a fun thread too.

Work calls. Bye y'all.

306 wahabicorridor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:05:09am

re: #268 avanti

As have I, but not by Jones.

Since my work is about agriculture, I can tell you he has accused farmers of 'poisoning' the soil and immigrant ag workers.

307 debutaunt  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:05:26am

re: #294 Dianna

Thank you.

Now we have three eye-witness accounts.

Perception really varies.

308 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:05:39am

re: #294 Dianna

Well Chief would you belive...
Max Out...lol

309 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:06:26am

re: #270 Diego

I don't and can't agree with 'truthers', but it does piss me off that Bush got a report and (apparently, and correct me if I'm misinformed) didn't take action. Again, I'm willing to be educated if my understanding isn't accurate.

Incorrect. Much of the information was present but due to rules put in place by various action from the Church Commission to the Gorelic WALL the information was not shared. I.E. the FBI had info an a couple of the hijackers but by law could not send it to the CIA who had data on possible attacks. Without both pieces in the same room it was not possible to see the whole picture.

The term of art is connect the dots. We had a lot of dots, but legal, bureaucratic and turf war reasons connecting the dots was never done, and no one even knew there where other dots to connect too.

310 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:06:26am

[Link: www.bobrivers.com...]

311 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:06:39am

re: #303 MandyManners

Would expect nothing less from you Mandy!!LOL

312 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:06:50am

re: #307 debutaunt

Perception really varies.

The first fiction is memory. I think they told us that in my history classes.

313 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:07:08am
314 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:07:15am

re: #309 jcm

The term of art is connect the dots. We had a lot of dots, but legal, bureaucratic and turf war reasons connecting the dots was never done, and no one even knew there where other dots to connect too.

Sounds about right. Thank you.

315 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:07:18am

re: #286 Charles

You've noticed that the number of pro-O-care people keeps growing?

316 CommonCents  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:07:30am

It's the little pinko people eaters. No disrespect intended to the Vikings.

317 Eowyn2  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:07:42am

re: #270 Diego

I don't and can't agree with 'truthers', but it does piss me off that Bush got a report and (apparently, and correct me if I'm misinformed) didn't take action. Again, I'm willing to be educated if my understanding isn't accurate.

Considering that Bush (and all presidents) get 'a report' every few hours, I think you should be more specific on the "got a report" line.
Which report, in the plethora of daily reports, are you speaking of?

318 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:07:44am

re: #306 wahabicorridor

Since my work is about agriculture, I can tell you he has accused farmers of 'poisoning' the soil and immigrant ag workers.

Link?

319 subsailor68  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:07:45am

re: #307 debutaunt

Hi debutaunt! Yes, perception really can vary a great deal. I think that's the point of the old story of the blind men asked to describe an elephant. Depending on what part they touched, their description of the same animal varied tremendously!

;-)

320 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:07:52am

re: #293 zombie

THNAK YOU for an actual eyewitness account!

Well, I didn't witness it. I called my friend this morning because I suspected that she was there (she's an activist in Thousand Oaks) but she was not home so I asked her husband (also an old friend) and he told me the story which I just retold here.

Sounds to me like some crazy bad behavior on both sides.

321 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:07:54am

re: #313 taxfreekiller

He never said that, and I'm deleting your comment.

322 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:08:07am
323 aRedPhishHead  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:08:12am

From AP 90 minutes ago (published well after the KTLA story linked on the LGF post):

THOUSAND OAKS, Calif. (AP) — California authorities say a clash between opponents and supporters of health care reform ended with one man biting off another man's finger.

Ventura County Sheriff's Capt. Frank O'Hanlon says about 100 people demonstrating in favor of health care reforms rallied Wednesday night on a street corner. One protester walked across the street to confront about 25 counter-demonstrators.

O'Hanlon says the man got into an argument and fist fight, during which he bit off the left pinky of a 65-year-old man who opposed health care reform.

The victim retrieved the finger and went to a hospital. There was no immediate word Thursday on whether doctors reattached his finger, or whether the man had health insurance.

O'Hanlon says the attacker fled but authorities have a good description.

This isn't some right wing protester saying all this - this is the Ventura County Sheriff's Captain the AP was quoting. Is he lying?

Since this new information has surfaced and has now been reported by the AP, the LGF post should be updated to reflect that IMHO.

324 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:08:15am

re: #311 reloadingisnotahobby

Would expect nothing less from you Mandy!!LOL

I like to cook.

325 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:08:20am

re: #312 EmmmieG

The first fiction is memory. I think they told us that in my history classes.


Or " The first liar doesn't stand a chance"

326 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:08:31am

re: #315 Dianna

Well of course they are paid. And given our current economy...

327 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:08:42am

re: #315 Dianna

You've noticed that the number of pro-O-care people keeps growing?

All part of Obama's plan to reduce unemployment.

328 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:08:46am

re: #313 taxfreekiller

what he did say, "white people are poisoning the soil where black people live"

I remember a school being build over a toxic dump. They dumped the crap there because it was a poor neighbourhood and they didn't think they would ever be found out. Then the children started getting sick.

Could that, and cases like it, be what he was talking about?

329 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:08:53am

re: #311 reloadingisnotahobby

Would expect nothing less from you Mandy!!LOL

I like to cook.

330 wahabicorridor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:09:10am

re: #313 taxfreekiller

what he did say, "white people are poisoning the soil where black people live"

I'm not sure he injected race into anything about farming. I got this second hand from some of our farmer clients who had heard it so they called the office to get the low down on Jones.

331 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:09:20am

re: #286 Charles

Eyewitness account: Health Care Vigil in Thousand Oaks: Provocation to violent response.

Very interesting!

Good eyewitness account.

I'd also like to hear a version coming from someone on the other side of the street, where they were closer to the action.

332 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:09:33am

A photo of the anti-Obama demonstrators. Looks like about six people. The tall guy in the orange shirt is apparently the one whose finger was eated.

[Link: karoli.posterous.com...]

333 wahabicorridor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:10:28am

re: #318 MandyManners

Link?

stories over the phone from some of our farmers - they all listen to the radio when they're in their tractors or in the barn - we got 4 phone calls in 20 minutes.

334 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:10:29am

re: #307 debutaunt

Perception really varies.

Every single first-person account will have a strong bias; I doubt there was a disinterested observer anywhere around.

335 Kenneth  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:10:48am

9-11 ATTACKS: STORM's FOUR MAIN POINTS IN RESPONSE TO THE BOMBINGS OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER & THE U.S. PENTAGON

Source : Ella Baker Center for Human Rights

PRESS RELEASE
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE-11-01

People Of Color Groups Gather to Stand In Solidarity With Arab Americans and to Mourn the East Coast Dead

(OAKLAND) Community-based organizations led by people of color will hold a "Solidarity Gathering" and candle light vigil on Wednesday night to support the Arab American community, which is suffering from a tidal wave of bigotry in the wake of Tuesday's bombings in New York City and Washington, D.C.

The "Solidarity Gathering" will take place at 7 p.m. on Wednesday, September 12, 2001. The location will be Snow Park, at 19th and Harrison, in downtown Oakland. Snow Park is about three blocks from the 17th Street BART Station, near the lake.

The purpose of the gathering will be to give leaders from communities of color an opportunity to speak out in support of the Arab community, while condemning the attacks and mourning the dead.

Among the organizations endorsing this gathering are: the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights, Let's Get Free, Youth Force Coalition, JustAct, Bay Area PoliceWatch, Underground Railroad and STORM/Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement.

"Anti-Arab hostility is already reaching a fever pitch as pundits and common people alike rush to judgment that an Arab group is responsible for this tragedy," said Van Jones, national executive director of the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights. "We fear that an atmosphere is being created that will result in official and street violence against Arab men, women and children."

"No matter who ultimately is to blame for these bombings, we cannot tolerate stereotypes and blanket attacks against any ethnic group," said Raquel of STORM. "And we especially don't want Asian-American, African-American, Latino or Native American communities getting pulled into a frenzy of hatred toward our sisters and brothers. We must stand together."

336 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:11:25am

re: #332 Charles

Hmmm. Doesn't look like you exactly need to walk thru the crowd to get to the Pro-Obama side.

337 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:11:30am

re: #328 Diego

I remember a school being build over a toxic dump. They dumped the crap there because it was a poor neighbourhood and they didn't think they would ever be found out. Then the children started getting sick.

Could that, and cases like it, be what he was talking about?

If you're talking about Love Canal, it is interesting that the company that had owned the land, used for a chemical plant, did not want to sell it, saying it was not safe to build on, but the town insisted.
And then the company got sued for damages by the people injured, and lost.

338 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:12:12am

re: #337 Kosh's Shadow

No, it wasn't Love. A different thing. I'll try to find it.

339 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:12:19am

re: #335 Kenneth

9-11 ATTACKS: STORM's FOUR MAIN POINTS IN RESPONSE TO THE BOMBINGS OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER & THE U.S. PENTAGON

Are we sure that's the same Van Jones? I confess I haven't read all his credentials. That doesn't necessarily validate the Truthers' claim, though. Just means he's an idiot (but we already knew that, right?)

340 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:12:32am

re: #334 Dianna

It's starting to look like there's plenty of blame to go around. The guy should have stayed on his side of the street but they shouldn't have punched him and he shouldn't have bitten off someone's finger. I think it's more or less of a wash.

341 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:12:46am

re: #297 reloadingisnotahobby

Basically that the Pro Obama dude started a scuffle and the victim was like the smallest man in the group...( 65 w/ glasses)
Scott...was freaked out but had the presence of mind to retrive the finger call 911 and they said the closest Hosp was LoS Robles.
They found the vic being treated and gave the finger to attending Phys...
Returned and found the police and walked thru the O supporters but could not find "Hannibal"!
That's about it Zom...

Hmmm, that conflicts with the eyewitness account published on "drums 'n' whistles" (comment #286 above).

Looks like it's exactly as I predicted it would be: eyewitnesses will disagree, spinning it their way.

WE NEED A VIDEO!

342 kcladderman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:12:47am

re: #328 Diego

I remember a school being build over a toxic dump. They dumped the crap there because it was a poor neighbourhood and they didn't think they would ever be found out. Then the children started getting sick.

Could that, and cases like it, be what he was talking about?

Do you remeberwhere this school was built and who they were?

343 Lincolntf  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:13:10am

Does California have enhanced penalties/sentences for assaults on people 65 years or older? Or is that a Fed thing, maybe?
I wonder if the Nibbler has a record?

344 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:13:41am

re: #333 wahabicorridor

stories over the phone from some of our farmers - they all listen to the radio when they're in their tractors or in the barn - we got 4 phone calls in 20 minutes.

I'm sorry if I missed it above if you've already posted it but, which radio show?

345 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:13:56am

re: #332 Charles

A photo of the anti-Obama demonstrators. Looks like about six people. The tall guy in the orange shirt is apparently the one whose finger was eated.

[Link: karoli.posterous.com...]

"eated"?! Charles!

346 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:14:01am

re: #314 Diego

Sounds about right. Thank you.

We never learn. Same thing happen with Pearl Harbor. Two different intel agencies had the pieces that made it pretty clear an attack was coming at likely at Pearl. It leads to the theory FDR knew, we had the pieces, but because of pissing contests the pieces were kept separated.

A big piece of the problem was leading up to 9/11 terrorism was considered a law enforcement problem, with rules of evidence, and getting the evidence admissible in a court of law. Intercepts or intel by CIA wasn't "legal" enough, and "legal" evidence they didn't want contaminated by CIA involvement.

347 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:14:11am

re: #328 Diego

I remember a school being build over a toxic dump. They dumped the crap there because it was a poor neighbourhood and they didn't think they would ever be found out. Then the children started getting sick.

Could that, and cases like it, be what he was talking about?

If you're talking about the Love Canal area of Niagara Falls, New York, then you have your history way wrong, Diego.

In the Love Canal, a chemical company owned the area and used the former canal for dumping toxic waste (allowable by early 20th Century standards). They capped the dump shortly after WWII with the acceptable materials of the time.

As Niagara Falls was growing, the school district wanted the land to build a school on. The chemical company balked and told them that they would not sell. The school district forced the chemical company to sell the land. Then the school district tried to build a school in one part of the land, breaking the seal on the toxic waste. They did not reseal the area properly and built the school on another part of the property, also breaking the seal there.

Years later, the residents of the area (mostly white) complained about getting sick and suspected the former toxic waste dump on which the school was situated.

348 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:14:37am

re: #29 lawhawk

Should that be fascists taste like chicken? It was the pro-ObamaCare guy who did the biting, while the anti-ObamaCare got chomped. /can't keep track of which side is what epitaph of the day.

Epithet, although I'm sure someone's already jumped in with that. (Cato?)

349 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:14:51am

re: #341 zombie

Indeed !
News said he left w/his finger this guy that called in said he and some friends recovered it and brought it to hosp...
Not much of a crowd in pic above...

350 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:14:55am

re: #335 Kenneth

That's not really trutherism, is it? They're just warning against backlash.

351 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:15:09am

re: #340 Killgore Trout

It's starting to look like there's plenty of blame to go around. The guy should have stayed on his side of the street but they shouldn't have punched him and he shouldn't have bitten off someone's finger. I think it's more or less of a wash.

I think it would be hard to bite off someone's finger unless it was pushed into your face.

352 Eowyn2  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:15:13am

re: #286 Charles


I think that account would be considered hearsay in a court of law. Obvious intentions of painting bitee in bad light with 'petite blond' which may or may not have had anything to do with 'biter'

353 irish rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:15:14am

They're both idiots.

354 Dreader1962  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:15:31am

re: #350 Killgore Trout

That's not really trutherism, is it? They're just warning against backlash.

I am curious about the reference to 'bombings' - a strange term for the 9/11 attacks isn't it?

355 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:15:48am

re: #351 jaunte

I think it would be hard to bite off someone's finger unless it was pushed into your face.

Yeah, it seems by all accounts he was on the ground when it happened.

356 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:15:51am

re: #316 CommonCents

It's the little pinko people eaters. No disrespect intended to the Vikings.

Pinko Pinkie Drinkers?

357 irish rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:16:34am

Morning Yooper, you've got mail dude.

358 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:16:38am

Well, this has been an interesting diversion. Off to coffee and real news.

359 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:16:40am

re: #344 MandyManners

Rush and ...oops ,Beck have played the audio Jones claiming that minorities...AG workers being poisoned by pesticide...

360 wintercat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:16:46am

re: #340 Killgore Trout

Biting someone's finger off is not a wash with getting punched in the face. No way. However, it isn't clear what exactly happened. Perhaps the guy who had his finger off yelled, "eat me". A misunderstanding might have ensued.

361 lostlakehiker  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:17:01am

The moral of this story is to not bite off more than you can chew.

362 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:17:13am

re: #335 Kenneth

9-11 ATTACKS: STORM's FOUR MAIN POINTS IN RESPONSE TO THE BOMBINGS OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER & THE U.S. PENTAGON

"No matter who ultimately is to blame for these bombings

What in the world? Who else is to blame but those who plotted and committed those acts?

363 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:17:14am

re: #306 wahabicorridor

Since my work is about agriculture, I can tell you he has accused farmers of 'poisoning' the soil and immigrant ag workers.

Also claimed blacks were poisoned en masse by the food supply.

364 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:17:14am

re: #340 Killgore Trout

It's starting to look like there's plenty of blame to go around. The guy should have stayed on his side of the street but they shouldn't have punched him and he shouldn't have bitten off someone's finger. I think it's more or less of a wash.

Oh, KT, have I said there isn't plenty of blame? I keep saying there is!

I do not, however, see having a finger bitten off as a wash. Even just a part of a finger.

365 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:17:20am

Jones is a frickin loon.

366 wahabicorridor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:17:25am

re: #344 MandyManners

I'm sorry if I missed it above if you've already posted it but, which radio show?

I think they may have been listening to a news stations that were running syndicated pieces. 4 farmers from 3 states.

367 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:17:30am

re: #361 lostlakehiker

No bones about it.

368 KenJen  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:17:47am

re: #353 irish rose

They're both idiots.

The assailant's mother says her son is a fine young cannibal.

369 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:18:18am

re: #359 reloadingisnotahobby

Rush and ...oops ,Beck have played the audio Jones claiming that minorities...AG workers being poisoned by pesticide...

Today?

370 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:18:23am

re: #364 Dianna

Well, if a guy is knocked to the ground he's not going to bite your finger off if you keep your hands out of his face.

371 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:18:39am

re: #365 pat

And a proud RACIST...It's all White this and White that...
I'd like to...

372 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:19:28am

re: #353 irish rose

They're both idiots.

A very solid point! And pithily put.

373 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:19:43am

re: #371 reloadingisnotahobby

And a proud RACIST...It's all White this and White that...
I'd like to...

Only white conservatives are racist...
/

374 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:19:46am
whose finger was eated

You I should be ashamed of yourself myself for making me laughing at such a thing.

/

375 Eowyn2  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:19:50am

re: #315 Dianna

You've noticed that the number of pro-O-care people keeps growing?

with candles? Daytime vigils for healthcare?

376 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:20:07am

re: #368 KenJen

The assailant's mother says her son is a fine young cannibal.

Dance, anyone?


Youtube Video
377 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:20:10am

re: #332 Charles

A photo of the anti-Obama demonstrators. Looks like about six people. The tall guy in the orange shirt is apparently the one whose finger was eated.

[Link: karoli.posterous.com...]

They don't look very menacing!

Great find, btw. First photo we've seen.

378 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:20:22am

re: #61 Charles

The anti-Obama demonstrator had his finger bitten off, after assaulting the pro-Obama demonstrator.

The mere fact that we're having to clarify details like this does not speak well for the state of public discourse.

It does have a sort of 'Age of Jackson' rough-and-tumble quality to it. If Andrew Jackson had been a zombie.

379 UFO TOFU  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:20:30am

re: #368 KenJen

The assailant's mother says her son is a fine young cannibal.


I can't make up my mind whether to upding that or not.

380 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:20:41am

Sigh.

The "poison" allegation is another one that's being distorted beyond belief.

This video is a short clip completely out of context (probably deliberately), but it's clear that Van Jones was saying the regulations were biased against black communities, resulting in more pollution being diverted into black communities. I have no idea if this is true or not, but it's pretty damned clear he wasn't saying "white people are poisoning black people."

Youtube Video
381 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:20:42am

I'm trying to find the story and I can't.

A few more details: I *think* the school was installing or repairing a playground and the company doing the work thought they could get rid of the toxic material and no one would notice.

I just can't find it, my apologies.

382 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:20:44am

re: #346 jcm

We never learn. Same thing happen with Pearl Harbor. Two different intel agencies had the pieces that made it pretty clear an attack was coming at likely at Pearl. It leads to the theory FDR knew, we had the pieces, but because of pissing contests the pieces were kept separated.

A big piece of the problem was leading up to 9/11 terrorism was considered a law enforcement problem, with rules of evidence, and getting the evidence admissible in a court of law. Intercepts or intel by CIA wasn't "legal" enough, and "legal" evidence they didn't want contaminated by CIA involvement.

And we're heading right back to those days.

383 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:20:45am

re: #369 MandyManners

Yesterday Beck played several times along with his answers to questions about his being a socialist...His answer? Well How's that Capitalism working for ya!

384 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:20:51am

re: #315 Dianna

You've noticed that the number of pro-O-care people keeps growing?

Grassroots.

385 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:21:11am

re: #373 Cannadian Club Akbar
Come on!! I KNOW THAT!!
/

386 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:21:14am

re: #370 Killgore Trout

Well, if a guy is knocked to the ground he's not going to bite your finger off if you keep your hands out of his face.

Indeed. That is my take too.

387 MJ  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:21:18am

From the Voice of the Revolutionary Communist Party,USA website:

"We Pledge Resistance"

...At the historic People's Park there were other speakers, including Jeff Paterson, the first active-duty soldier to refuse orders to be part of the US attack force during the Persian Gulf War, and Van Jones, Executive Director of the Ella Baker Center. Paul Flores, from the poetry troupe Los Delicados and the education director of Youth Speaks!, led a group reading of the pledge...

[Link: revcom.us...]

388 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:21:47am

re: #380 Charles

Sigh.

The "poison" allegation is another one that's being distorted beyond belief.

This video is a short clip completely out of context (probably deliberately), but it's clear that Van Jones was saying the regulations were biased against black communities, resulting in more pollution being diverted into black communities. I have no idea if this is true or not, but it's pretty damned clear he wasn't saying "white people are poisoning black people."


[Video]

Doesn't mean he's not a nutjob for saying it, but it's not as extreme as some have been making it sound.

389 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:21:51am

re: #370 Killgore Trout

Well, if a guy is knocked to the ground he's not going to bite your finger off if you keep your hands out of his face.

I just don't know. I keep reading and listening, and without clear video (fat chance), we don't know what happened exactly.

390 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:21:54am

re: #80 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You should be damn glad you qualified that.

Right-wing vegetarians are allowed to bite people's fingers off without irony? Forgive me if I don't shake hands...

391 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:21:56am

re: #383 reloadingisnotahobby

Yesterday Beck played several times along with his answers to questions about his being a socialist...His answer? Well How's that Capitalism working for ya!

How dare he proffer a question like that!
/

392 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:21:58am

re: #386 Diego

...and the dude should have stayed on his side of the street anyways.

393 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:22:15am

re: #335 Kenneth

9-11 ATTACKS: STORM's FOUR MAIN POINTS IN RESPONSE TO THE BOMBINGS OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER & THE U.S. PENTAGON

Nice research!

Van Jones's group was all over the variant of Trutherism that I call "Racial Trutherism."

394 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:22:16am

re: #365 pat

Jones is a frickin loon.

Loons on both sides being outed.

395 badger1970  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:22:16am

If I was stupid enough to go to a rally as the anti-party, would I be safer protraying a leftist or a rightist? My assumption is the pro-rally will not contain neo-nazis or ANSWER.

As for the September 8th live speech, it occurs during the start of lunch periods and the administration in my school district has limited the viewing to social studies classes, whether it will be live or memorex. The teachers would need to spend some extra time though to make up for the TAKS teaching lost.

396 lostlakehiker  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:22:21am

Honest, officer. I didn't bite it off. He gave me the finger.

397 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:22:52am

re: #337 Kosh's Shadow

If you're talking about Love Canal, it is interesting that the company that had owned the land, used for a chemical plant, did not want to sell it, saying it was not safe to build on, but the town insisted.
And then the company got sued for damages by the people injured, and lost.

There was a school in LA built on a site that was toxic. Don't remember much detail, but I think it was 5-10 years ago.

398 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:23:11am

re: #393 zombie

Nice research!

Van Jones's group was all over the variant of Trutherism that I call "Racial Trutherism."

So that's really Jones's group? The very acronym screams of Teh Stupid (tm).

399 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:23:14am

Need coffee. I just face-planted into my keyboard.

400 Dreader1962  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:23:21am

re: #381 Diego

I'm trying to find the story and I can't.

A few more details: I *think* the school was installing or repairing a playground and the company doing the work thought they could get rid of the toxic material and no one would notice.

I just can't find it, my apologies.

Please don't post things like this unless you can source them. You can't tell us where, when or who, or link to a story, but yet you provide more 'details'.

401 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:23:31am

I really shocked that this happened in Thousand Oaks, it's such a quiet suburban area. Although the particular spot where this occurred has over the past 8 years become a place where a group of anti-war demonstrators (5-10 usually) have gathered on the first Friday of each month during the Bush years. My sister and a number of my old friends have participated in these protests which seemed to be organized or coordinated by moveon.org.

I'm pretty sure that this "health care"protest was the same group of people.

I'll try to find out.

402 sngnsgt  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:23:42am

I said PULL my finger!!! /

403 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:23:46am

re: #394 unrealizedviewpoint

Loons on both sides being outed.

If you haven't noticed, the left has no loons. Van Jones is not a loon, I have it on really good authority.
/

404 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:24:06am

re: #339 thedopefishlives

Are we sure that's the same Van Jones? I confess I haven't read all his credentials. That doesn't necessarily validate the Truthers' claim, though. Just means he's an idiot (but we already knew that, right?)

It's the same guy. THE Van Jones headed up the Ella Baker Center. In fact, his Ella Baker resume was part of the credentials that landed him the Green Jobs Czar position at the White House.

405 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:24:21am

re: #390 SanFranciscoZionist

Right-wing vegetarians are allowed to bite people's fingers off without irony? Forgive me if I don't shake hands...

I'll stick to biting remarks.

406 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:24:44am

re: #102 Diego

I'm unsure. If someone punches me I don't think my reaction would be to grab his hand and bite off his finger. I predict the biting of the finger will be because the guy had his hands on the other guy's face. I can only guess and I wouldn't certainly bite someone if they had my face in a hold and had just punched me..

I have to say, I don't think you can INADVERTENTLY bite off someone's finger in a brawl. Bite it, sure. Detaching it...unless this guy was actually a Doberman, that's pretty hard.

407 gander  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:25:15am

An eye for an eye A finger for a knuckle sandwich.

408 Syrah  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:25:21am

Why did the Obama supporter cross the road?

. . .

/

409 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:25:37am

re: #391 Walter L. Newton

I take it all with a grain of salt...But
the Conservative radio heads do ALLOT of research!

410 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:25:43am

re: #350 Killgore Trout

That's not really trutherism, is it? They're just warning against backlash.

Yes, it's trutherism. They call 9/11 a "bombing."

411 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:25:57am

re: #404 zombie

It's the same guy. THE Van Jones headed up the Ella Baker Center. In fact, his Ella Baker resume was part of the credentials that landed him the Green Jobs Czar position at the White House.

Well, since he could not possibly in a million years and cross his heart and hope to die be a truther, why doesn't he just make a statement and deny it?

412 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:26:26am

re: #386 Diego

Indeed. That is my take too.

It's pretty easy to image the guy had is hand on the biters face pushing.

413 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:27:14am

Ella Baker Center.

[Link: www.ellabakercenter.org...]

414 mjwsatx  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:27:22am

re: #408 Syrah

...to go wah, wah, wah - all the way home.

415 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:27:42am

Moral to the story: Keep your hands to yourself.

416 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:27:43am

re: #404 zombie

It's the same guy. THE Van Jones headed up the Ella Baker Center. In fact, his Ella Baker resume was part of the credentials that landed him the Green Jobs Czar position at the White House.

I haven't yet seen a good definition of what makes a "green job" "green."
How does he know what to work on?

417 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:27:49am

Someone is putting serious money into the John Birch Society. This is an expensively designed website for their upcoming speaking tour to promote their bizarre conspiracy theory that commies are behind Islamic terrorism:

[Link: www.exposingterrorism.com...]

418 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:28:08am

re: #404 zombie

It's the same guy. THE Van Jones headed up the Ella Baker Center. In fact, his Ella Baker resume was part of the credentials that landed him the Green Jobs Czar position at the White House.

The Washington Times checked with the troofers themselves. They insist that all the signatures on their statement are legitimate and were separately verified:

His name is listed with 99 other prominent signatories supporting such an investigation on the 911Truth.org website, including Code Pink co-founders Medea Benjamin and Jodi Evans, comedienne Janeane Garofalo, Democratic Rep. Cynthia McKinney of Georgia and others. He's identified as the executive director for the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights on the statement, which he founded before going to the White House. The statement is available here. Mr. Jones is number 46.

9/11Truth.org spokesman Mike Berger told the Washington Times over the phone that all of the signers had been verified by their group. He said 9/11Truth.org board members “spoke with each person on the list by phone or through email or individually confirm they hae added their name to that list.”

419 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:28:16am

re: #108 Dianna

Hey! I like Charlaine Harris' books! Sookie's a nice girl, just telepathic.

They must be good. A friend of mine likes them, but she likes anything with romance and vampires. But the other day, I was on BART, and there was a young black guy, about twenty, dressed pure hip-hop, and totally immersed in one of the novels. Didn't look like an easy sell for the vampire romance crowd.

420 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:28:20am

re: #392 Killgore Trout

But that doesn't excuse the other guy punching him in the face.

Why did you punch him in the face?

421 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:28:32am

re: #416 jaunte

I haven't yet seen a good definition of what makes a "green job" "green."
How does he know what to work on?

Union jobs.

422 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:29:07am

re: #380 Charles

Upon further review, you appear correct.

Has Van Jones disavowed his prior communist ties?

423 MJ  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:29:17am

re: #387 MJ

From the Voice of the Revolutionary Communist Party,USA website:

"We Pledge Resistance"

...At the historic People's Park there were other speakers, including Jeff Paterson, the first active-duty soldier to refuse orders to be part of the US attack force during the Persian Gulf War, and Van Jones, Executive Director of the Ella Baker Center. Paul Flores, from the poetry troupe Los Delicados and the education director of Youth Speaks!, led a group reading of the pledge...

[Link: revcom.us...]

Here's the Pledge:

We believe that as people living
in the United States it is our
responsibility to resist the injustices
done by our government,
in our names

Not in our name
will you wage endless war
there can be no more deaths
no more transfusions
of blood for oil

Not in our name
will you invade countries
bomb civilians, kill more children
letting history take its course
over the graves of the nameless

Not in our name
will you erode the very freedoms
you have claimed to fight for

Not by our hands
will we supply weapons and funding
for the annihilation of families
on foreign soil

Not by our mouths
will we let fear silence us

Not by our hearts
will we allow whole peoples
or countries to be deemed evil

Not by our will
and Not in our name

We pledge resistance

We pledge alliance with those
who have come under attack
for voicing opposition to the war
or for their religion or ethnicity

We pledge to make common cause
with the people of the world
to bring about justice,
freedom and peace

Another world is possible
and we pledge to make it real.

[Link: www.notinourname.net...]

424 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:29:18am

re: #421 HelloDare

Oh, green as in "costs extra."

425 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:29:37am

Forgot my link: Washington Times story on Van Jones

426 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:29:40am

re: #420 Diego

Damn, that didn't work. 1/2 my comment disappeared :P

427 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:30:07am

re: #418 Shiplord Kirel

The Washington Times checked with the troofers themselves. They insist that all the signatures on their statement are legitimate and were separately verified.

Neither the Washington Times nor the Truthers are reliable sources. The Washington Times has outright lied on several occasions for political purposes.

428 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:30:08am

re: #417 Charles
We've got one Bircher in our little berg here in Utah !
Was Dentist...did 10 years for tax evasion...but still going strong!
He is ...ODD!!

429 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:30:17am

At this point it's difficult for me to remove Glenn Beck from the issue of Van Jones. I in no way support Glenn Beck's rhetoric. However, I firmly oppose Van Jones being in the position of Green Jobs Czar.

This position has nothing to do with the current chatter regarding "911 trutherism" and is in fact it is a position I held after reading through unfiltered information on him as soon as he was "appointed."

Van Jones should be replaced.

430 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:30:23am

re: #412 jcm

It's pretty easy to image the guy had is hand on the biters face pushing.

I've seen some wicked ugly fights in bars before...There is nothing in a street fight of he just hit me and I bite his finger off...Fights can get pretty ugly...

431 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:30:29am

re: #426 Diego

Damn, that didn't work. 1/2 my comment disappeared :P

Bitten off?

432 wahabicorridor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:30:32am

re: #422 unrealizedviewpoint

Upon further review, you appear correct.

Has Van Jones disavowed his prior communist ties?


Prior? Who said anything about prior

433 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:30:59am

From Wiki:

The Ella Baker Center for Human Rights grew out of Bay Area PoliceWatch, a small initiative founded in 1995 as a hotline for victims of police brutality. The hotline was based in a closet-sized office donated by the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights.[16] The need for assistance was great, so Bay Area PoliceWatch quickly outgrew the space and Van Jones officially launched the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights on September 1, 1996.

434 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:31:09am

re: #380 Charles

Sigh.

The "poison" allegation is another one that's being distorted beyond belief.

This video is a short clip completely out of context (probably deliberately), but it's clear that Van Jones was saying the regulations were biased against black communities, resulting in more pollution being diverted into black communities. I have no idea if this is true or not, but it's pretty damned clear he wasn't saying "white people are poisoning black people."


[Video]

Yeah, but I've heard him in person say exactly that -- mass poisoning of black people.

However, I don't have a video (this was long ago, in my pre-zombie era), so I can't prove he's said these things. But he spouted off all sorts of black nationalist lunacy for years and years.

I don't know where other people are getting their "poisoning" rumors, but I've seen his statements in person. (In fact, I was unaware this rumor was even being discussed anywhere.) It's not just based on one video.

435 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:31:19am

re: #417 Charles

Someone is putting serious money into the John Birch Society. This is an expensively designed website for their upcoming speaking tour to promote their bizarre conspiracy theory that commies are behind Islamic terrorism:

[Link: www.exposingterrorism.com...]

SOROS!

436 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:31:19am

re: #410 zombie

The press release was about 6 weeks after the attacks. How much information did we have at that point? Were there bombs on the planes? Maybe they were using bombing as a synonym for attack. The planes themselves were used as bombs. The "bombing" isn't the central point of the press release. They're warning of backlash. I think it's a bit of a stretch to consider it a truther press release.

Thruthers love to point to early news reports that called 9-11 a bombing because they think it proves an inside job but the reality is that the language and terminology wasn't settled yet. He might be a truther but that doesn't prove it.

437 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:31:24am

re: #431 Cannadian Club Akbar

Well, it was fingered anyhow ;)

438 Dreader1962  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:31:31am

re: #412 jcm

It's pretty easy to image the guy had is hand on the biters face pushing.

Has the guy who did the biting been found? He needs to turn himself over to the police now, or he'll have a harder time of it. Fleeing and not clarifying what happened makes it much more likely that he'll get an aggravated assault charge. Turning himself in will get his story out and make it likely that it could be a lesser charge.

439 wahabicorridor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:32:15am

re: #429 Gus 802

Hi ya Gus 802

However, I firmly oppose Van Jones being in the position of Green Jobs Czar.

I'm opposed to the whole notion of 'czar', forget who has any of the positions.

440 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:32:17am
In case that wasn’t clear — a pro-health care demonstrator was apparently assaulted by an anti-health care demonstrator, and retaliated by chowing down on his pinky.

Boy, the perp was REALLY pro-health care, wasn't he? In fact he was so pro-health care that he wanted to ensure that his victim would be sure to receive a good measure of health care - immediately.

441 Fenway_Nation  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:32:28am

re: #410 zombie

Yes, it's trutherism. They call 9/11 a "bombing."

It's more mainstream, but I get pissed beyond words when the 9/11 attacks are referred to as a 'tragedy'...like the Twin Towers collapsed because of a stiff breeze or something and absolutely nothing happened in Pennsylvania or Northern Virginia that day,

442 NukeAtomrod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:32:31am

re: #50 lawhawk

Timeline:

Anti Obamacare guy gets into kerfuffle with pro-Obamacare guy
Anti Obamacare guy apparently assaults pro-Obamacare guy.
Obamacare supporter responds with biting anti-Obamacare's pinky off.

I'm sure we'll get more details when the reporters finally do their due diligence.

Yeah, I'd like to hear some details... if these three statements are true, I'd like to know the age of the Pro-Obama guy. Was this senior on senior violence? Or a young activist vs old dude match-up? Maybe it shouldn't matter, but I think it does.

443 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:32:34am

re: #423 MJ

Revolutionary Worker? 2002?

444 gregb  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:32:45am

re: #1 Mad Al-Jaffee

Was it a zombie?

I wrote this really, really knee-jerk comment about "sp_t" versus "sw___w", but then I retracted it out of karma.

445 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:32:49am

re: #368 KenJen

The assailant's mother says her son is a fine young cannibal.

She drives me crazy.

446 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:33:08am

re: #439 wahabicorridor

Me too, starting with Regan's 'Drug Czar'..

447 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:33:36am

re: #387 MJ

From the Voice of the Revolutionary Communist Party,USA website:

"We Pledge Resistance"

[Link: revcom.us...]

There is a mountain of evidence about Van Jones' incredibly radical career. Hanging out with the Revolutionary Communist Party is the least of it!

448 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:33:48am

re: #380 Charles

Sigh.

The "poison" allegation is another one that's being distorted beyond belief.

This video is a short clip completely out of context (probably deliberately), but it's clear that Van Jones was saying the regulations were biased against black communities, resulting in more pollution being diverted into black communities. I have no idea if this is true or not, but it's pretty damned clear he wasn't saying "white people are poisoning black people."


[Video]

The clip isn't quite as awful as I thought it was, but he clearly indicates that pollution is being "steered" into minority communities. I think he's half correct, based on what I know of the situation where I live.

I know that where I live, the low-income minority communities have indeed been the ones that have been affected by pollution, but I doubt very seriously it was deliberately done because it was a minority community; more likely, it was done because those were the areas of town where facilities were able to find the least expensive expanse of property of a size they needed for their operations.

Much of this problem in those areas has been cleared up now - but it was a big issue for awhile.

449 vxbush  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:34:09am

re: #399 Dianna

Need coffee. I just face-planted into my keyboard.

Hopefully not on your nose, as all those key imprints are hard to wash off.

/

450 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:34:23am

re: #427 Charles

The Washington Times has outright lied on several occasions for political purposes.

Unfortunately, the same can be said for almost all major newspapers, networks, etc.

451 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:34:25am

re: #447 zombie
So did he really name his kid" CHE"???

452 wahabicorridor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:34:27am

re: #446 Diego

Me too, starting with Regan's 'Drug Czar'..

Ya know, I'm seriously reconsidering my position on legalizing drugs - as in I think maybe it would be a good idea.

453 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:34:45am

re: #427 Charles

Neither the Washington Times nor the Truthers are reliable sources. The Washington Times has outright lied on several occasions for political purposes.

Not to mention, Charles, the Times could very well be telling the truth and the Twoofers are just spouting off drivel in an attempt to look important. I mentioned NYC-CAN before, but it's a perfect example of Twoofers making up bullshit and then getting indignant when their house of cards falls apart under the iron weight of reality.

454 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:34:46am

re: #398 thedopefishlives

So that's really Jones's group? The very acronym screams of Teh Stupid (tm).

Yup. That's his group.

455 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:34:47am

re: #423 MJ

It links to [Link: revcom.us...]

Voice of the Revolutionary Communist Worker.

456 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:34:50am

re: #439 wahabicorridor

Hi ya Gus 802

I'm opposed to the whole notion of 'czar', forget who has any of the positions.

Yeah, but I was thinking along the lines of a compromise. He can keep the Green Jobs Czar position however have it headed by a level headed individual that is amiable and knowledgeable of the private economy. At least technologically.

457 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:34:58am

If Van Jones is really a sekrit commie, don't you think it's a little odd that he would write a book promoting "eco-capitalism?"

I sure am glad nobody's digging up every stupid statement I made in my youth.

458 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:35:18am
459 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:35:28am

re: #436 Killgore Trout

The press release was about 6 weeks after the attacks. How much information did we have at that point? Were there bombs on the planes? Maybe they were using bombing as a synonym for attack. The planes themselves were used as bombs. The "bombing" isn't the central point of the press release. They're warning of backlash. I think it's a bit of a stretch to consider it a truther press release.

Thruthers love to point to early news reports that called 9-11 a bombing because they think it proves an inside job but the reality is that the language and terminology wasn't settled yet. He might be a truther but that doesn't prove it.

Killgore - I seem to recall that within a day or two after the 9/11 attacks, the who and what was pretty well known, if not all the details.

460 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:35:53am

re: #457 Charles

If Van Jones is really a sekrit commie, don't you think it's a little odd that he would write a book promoting "eco-capitalism?"

I sure am glad nobody's digging up every stupid statement I made in my youth.

Where should we look?
/

461 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:36:05am

re: #401 Ringo the Gringo

I really shocked that this happened in Thousand Oaks, it's such a quiet suburban area. Although the particular spot where this occurred has over the past 8 years become a place where a group of anti-war demonstrators (5-10 usually) have gathered on the first Friday of each month during the Bush years. My sister and a number of my old friends have participated in these protests which seemed to be organized or coordinated by moveon.org.

I'm pretty sure that this "health care"protest was the same group of people.

I'll try to find out.

Maybe that would be a clue as to who the biter was. Do ask!

462 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:36:26am

re: #451 reloadingisnotahobby

So did he really name his kid" CHE"???

Speaking of che. A new tattoo place opened up next to where I get my hair cut. I wanted to drop in and check it out. I don't get but three steps in to the place and see a huge che flag/poster on the wall. I was exiting as the guy behind the counter was welcoming me to his new shop.

463 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:36:28am

re: #457 Charles

The statments they are re plying are from THIS YEAR!!
They claim...

464 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:36:29am

re: #432 wahabicorridor

Prior? Who said anything about prior

Good point. If he hasn't then they are not prior.

465 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:36:33am

re: #381 Diego

I'm trying to find the story and I can't.

A few more details: I *think* the school was installing or repairing a playground and the company doing the work thought they could get rid of the toxic material and no one would notice.

I just can't find it, my apologies.

Was it the Belmont Learning Center that you are thinking about?

Belmont Learning Center was expected to split the enrollment of Belmont High School in half, accommodating around 2,100 students (compared to the approximate 5,500 students at Belmont High). From the very beginning of the plans for the school in 1988, it was known to be contaminated with hazardous gases from the oil field that used to be in the area. LAUSD started construction anyway, and it was not until 1999 that the seriousness of the gases was realised. Construction was partially halted for most of 1999. The project as a whole was abandoned in 2000, when the LAUSD voted that it was not a correct area for a school.

466 wahabicorridor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:36:38am

re: #457 Charles

If Van Jones is really a sekrit commie, don't you think it's a little odd that he would write a book promoting "eco-capitalism?"

I sure am glad nobody's digging up every stupid statement I made in my youth.

Sorry Charles. We're all too familiary with distortions of language to believe this guy. And I don't think he's made any 'sekrit' about it.

467 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:37:36am

re: #457 Charles

I sure am glad nobody's digging up every stupid statement I made in my youth.

They're not?

Stalkers are so lazy these days.

468 wahabicorridor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:37:51am

re: #459 reine.de.tout

Killgore - I seem to recall that within a day or two after the 9/11 attacks, the who and what was pretty well known, if not all the details.

A day or two? Hell David Asner was naming Osama bin Laden w/in 30 minutes.

469 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:37:59am

A little more information including the name of the man bitten:

[Link: www.venturacountystar.com...]

470 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:38:20am

re: #457 Charles

If Van Jones is really a sekrit commie, don't you think it's a little odd that he would write a book promoting "eco-capitalism?"

I sure am glad nobody's digging up every stupid statement I made in my youth.

I went up thread. Where did someone/something say Van Jones say he was a commie?

471 badger1970  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:38:31am

re: #446 Diego

I always thought the notion of a czar was just a scapegoat for something. Like the surgeon general, all pomp, no substance but bo has taken it to a whole new level of delegation.

472 CommonCents  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:38:32am

re: #356 zombie

Pinko Pinkie Drinkers?

Back in the 70's (I think) the Minnesota Viking's defensive line was referred to the Purple People Eaters. That's where I stole it from.

473 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:38:44am

More on the Ella Baker Center:

Third Eye Movement spent its first few years working on local issues including the police murder of Sheila Detoy.[20] Then Proposition 21, an initiative that increased a variety of criminal penalties for crimes committed by youth and incorporated many youth offenders into the adult criminal justice system, made it onto the California ballot. Third Eye Movement worked together with a coalition of youth organizations in the Bay Area to oppose Proposition 21.[21] Third Eye Movement became a national example of a new generation of hip hop activism. Hip Hop News and the FNV Newsletter stated in December 2000, "Third Eye Movement was one of the leading Hip Hop organizations here in the Bay that helped led the fight against California's infamous Prop 21 [Juvenile Crime Bill]. They had made a mark for themselves by using Hip Hop as a tool to help bring about social change. Over the past couple of years, it has not been unusual to see these cats show with as many as 500 people and shut down a business or spark up a rally. People are still talking how earlier this year, the group came through with close to 300 people and surrounded the Hilton Hotel in downtown San Francisco and shut it down. The owner of the Hotel chain had apparently contributed a bunch of money in support of Prop 21."[20] Due in part to this movement, Bay Area counties were the only ones in the state to reject Proposition 21 in March 2000.

SNIP

That's not boycotting. That's thuggery.

474 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:38:53am

re: #469 Wendya

A little more information including the name of the man bitten:

[Link: www.venturacountystar.com...]

That story confirms that the anti-Obama demonstrator started the violence.

475 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:38:56am

re: #465 CyanSnowHawk

No, it was definitely an Elementary school and I've now convinced myself it was the playground that it happened. The school spent a lot of money on the improvement and it all had to be ripped back out.

476 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:38:56am

re: #427 Charles

Neither the Washington Times nor the Truthers are reliable sources. The Washington Times has outright lied on several occasions for political purposes.

If the signatures are not legit, Jones, Medea Benjamin, Jeanine Garofalo, Ed Asner, and a host of other lefty celebrities have a strong case for a lawsuit. The list has been up for almost five years.

477 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:39:05am

re: #462 Creeping Eruption

Speaking of che. A new tattoo place opened up next to where I get my hair cut. I wanted to drop in and check it out. I don't get but three steps in to the place and see a huge che flag/poster on the wall. I was exiting as the guy behind the counter was welcoming me to his new shop.

Tattoo place in DC ("British Ink") had a full-sized TARDIS replica for promotional purposes. Far more likely to gain my business than a Che flag.

478 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:39:18am

re: #301 Fenway_Nation

Just like I'm sure you were pissed at Clinton's non-response to the USS Cole bombing...and his likely dismissal of any reports prior to the bombing.

/

Fenway, that's exactly what makes people think this is all just partisan. I've heard people here get very angry at Clinton about that, but suggesting that Bush should have done something with the intel is considered BDS.

All presidents screw up, and the stakes are very, very high. That's why they go gray so fast.

479 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:39:21am

re: #461 zombie

Maybe that would be a clue as to who the biter was. Do ask!

He walked into a crowd of rabid "anti-reformists" where his finger was bitten off!

Is that the new name for people that dare disagree with the One's Healthcare plan?

480 irish rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:39:23am

re: #457 Charles

I sure am glad nobody's digging up every stupid statement I made in my youth.

I can hear the furious keyboard clicking of a dozen spittle-flinging haters, Googling as we speak.

481 subsailor68  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:39:25am

Well, on a lighter note, it's nice to see that our institutions of higher learning continue to create new courses to further the educational opportunities for our college kids:

Oddball 101

BTW, zombie, I think you'll get a kick out of course number 10.

;-)

482 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:39:50am

I haven't read all of the comments here, so sorry if this has already been posted: Man at MoveOn.org healthcare vigil bites off opponent's finger

The “We Can’t Afford to Wait Vigil”, organized by MoveOn.org, already had drawn approximately one hundred people who gathered on the northwest corner of the intersection at Lynn and Hillcrest roads in Thousand Oaks, California. They were armed with bullhorns, glowing candles, and professionally made signs featuring pro public-option slogans.

Across the street, about 15 people carried cardboard signs with handwritten messages scrawled in black ink that criticized government-run healthcare. As I approached, I noticed several of them were talking to some Ventura County Sheriffs on the sidewalk. Here’s what I found out from speaking to several of the eyewitnesses:

About 20 minutes earlier, a man on MoveOn.org’s side of the street crossed over and shouted “Why don’t you like the public option?” Several of the counter-protesters said that they don’t want the government to run everything. The MoveOn.org man got nose to nose with a short, gray-haired counter-protester, and sneered, “You’re an idiot.”

At that point, I’m told the victim either swung at or pushed his assailant’s face away with an open hand, and his finger entered his mouth.

“It was a defensive strike,” said Scott Bush, who witnessed the altercation. He said the assailant approached him in an unpredictable and threatening manner.

The MoveOn.org protester then allegedly bit off the finger up to the first knuckle, and spat it into the street where it was recovered by Bush.

“I picked it up and it had a piece of gravel stuck on it,” he said. Bush rushed it to the hospital.

The attacker started back to the other side of the street, but then returned to briefly argue some more or attempt to justify what he had done before “swaggering off”, in the words of one witness. Deputies obtained a description of the suspect and searched the area but returned empty-handed.

483 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:40:12am

re: #472 CommonCents

Back in the 70's (I think) the Minnesota Viking's defensive line was referred to the Purple People Eaters. That's where I stole it from.

And they got it from the 1950's Sheb Wolley song.

Youtube Video
484 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:40:15am

re: #417 Charles

Someone is putting serious money into the John Birch Society. This is an expensively designed website for their upcoming speaking tour to promote their bizarre conspiracy theory that commies are behind Islamic terrorism:

[Link: www.exposingterrorism.com...]

Looks like they found something to do with that "9/12dc.org" bus after they get to DC.

485 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:40:31am

re: #477 JamesTKirk

Tattoo place in DC ("British Ink") had a full-sized TARDIS replica for promotional purposes. Far more likely to gain my business than a Che flag.

I should clarify that the TARDIS was only full-sized on the outside.

486 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:40:42am

So if a senior citizen takes a swing at me I'm not a drooling crazed idiot if I chomp off their finger?
Well OK then.

487 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:40:47am

Motto Working for justice in the system, opportunity in our cities, and peace on our streets.
Established 1996
Co-Founder Van Jones, esq.
Exec. Dir. Jakada Imani
Headquarters Oakland, CA, USA
Homepage ellabakercenter.org

488 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:40:55am

re: #417 Charles

Someone is putting serious money into the John Birch Society. This is an expensively designed website for their upcoming speaking tour to promote their bizarre conspiracy theory that commies are behind Islamic terrorism:

[Link: www.exposingterrorism.com...]

Uh -- if commies are behind Islamic terrorism, then why do the commies and Islamists hate each other? Why did the Iranian Islamists massacre the Iranian communists in 1979 and '80? Why did the Taliban and Al Qaeda fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan? Why did Hamas get into violent fights with the PFLP?

The truth about Islamist extremism is bad enough. Don't need to make up conspiracy theories about it.

489 Syrah  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:41:00am

back in 12hrs

Stay safe and watch where your fingers are Lizards.

490 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:41:21am

re: #469 Wendya

A little more information including the name of the man bitten:

[Link: www.venturacountystar.com...]

Ok, I am totally confused. This article say the man was a health care reform opponent, and his finger was bit off by a OBAMA SUPPORTER...

A 65-year-old healthcare-reform opponent had part of a finger bitten off Wednesday night during a rally in Thousand Oaks, authorities said.

The incident was reported at 7:26 p.m. at Lynn Road and Hillcrest Drive, where more than 100 people gathered for a pro-healthcare reform vigil organized by Moveon.org.

491 Fenway_Nation  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:41:34am

re: #466 wahabicorridor

Is this the same Van Jones who admitted to being a not-so-secret commie in the wake of the Rodney King verdict?

492 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:42:24am

re: #471 badger1970

I always thought the notion of a czar was just a scapegoat for something. Like the surgeon general, all pomp, no substance but bo has taken it to a whole new level of delegation.

Indeed. Not only that, but the 'War On Drugs' has filled the jails to the point that sex offenders are being let out and that's just plain wrong.

Don't spit at me for the name I'm about to drop (please), but I think Bill Maher had a good point a couple weeks ago: the jails have gone private and suddenly there are a lot more people to lock up.

493 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:42:26am

re: #418 Shiplord Kirel

9/11Truth.org spokesman Mike Berger told the Washington Times over the phone that all of the signers had been verified by their group. He said 9/11Truth.org board members “spoke with each person on the list by phone or through email or individually confirm they hae added their name to that list.”

Interesting!

I'm waiting for Jones' denial any moment now.

494 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:42:58am

Interview iwth Jakada Imani.

[Link: www.fundraisingsuccessmag.com...]

495 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:43:10am

re: #493 zombie

Interesting!

I'm waiting for Jones' denial any moment now.

Personally, I don't trust the gang at 9/11Truth.org any farther than I can throw them. And knowing your typical Truther, they're pretty fat and hard to move.

496 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:43:50am

re: #457 Charles

If Van Jones is really a sekrit commie, don't you think it's a little odd that he would write a book promoting "eco-capitalism?"

It's no sekrit. He said it. I'm wanting to know when he took it back.

I'll look at the book "eco-capitalism?"
I suspect it calls for fundamental change to the worlds economy in the name of green.

497 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:44:07am

re: #482 Ringo the Gringo

I haven't read all of the comments here, so sorry if this has already been posted: Man at MoveOn.org healthcare vigil bites off opponent's finger

Sounds like the MoveOn.org professional bussed-in protester decided to "get in their faces" and "push back twice as hard"? He was only following orders from on high. Of course, the biting part seems to be something he did on his own, without a direct order from his handlers.

498 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:44:10am

re: #493 zombie

Interesting!

I'm waiting for Jones' denial any moment now.

That's not the Van Jones I knew.TM

499 wahabicorridor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:44:34am

re: #491 Fenway_Nation

Is this the same Van Jones who admitted to being a not-so-secret commie in the wake of the Rodney King verdict?

I haven't finished my research on him but I haven't run across this earliest public pronouncements (I'm working backwards - and finding time is hard)

500 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:45:03am

re: #496 unrealizedviewpoint

Check for "No more coal."

501 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:45:05am

re: #474 Charles

That story confirms that the anti-Obama demonstrator started the violence.

"The finger-biting incident occurred after a member of the group protesting healthcare reform — William Rice, 65, of Newbury Park — became involved in a heated discussion with a member of Code Pink, sheriff’s Capt. Ross Bonfiglio said.

After the argument, Rice returned to where his own group was standing. A man from Moveon.org’s area then walked over to the opponents and verbally confronted Rice, allegedly calling him names and acting aggressively, Bonfiglio said."

Article said the aggression came from the Move On person.

502 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:45:44am

re: #427 Charles

Neither the Washington Times nor the Truthers are reliable sources. The Washington Times has outright lied on several occasions for political purposes.

The same can be said of MANY mainstream news organizations, as documented here extensively.

The Washington Times in fact has over the last two years really tried to clean up its act and stop being so hyperbolic.

503 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:46:11am

re: #461 zombie

I'm pretty sure I know someone who knows the biter's identity.

504 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:46:15am

re: #501 Walter L. Newton

Article said the aggression came from the Move On person.


The article also says where the first punch came from.

505 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:46:16am

Before joining Ella Baker Center staff, Jakada was a Constituent Liaison for Oakland City Councilwoman Nancy Nadel. He helped launch or lead a number of important Bay Area organizations, including Empowered Youth Educating Society (EYES), Rising Youth for Social Equality (RYSE) and Underground Railroad (an artist collective). Born and raised in Oakland, California, Jakada is also the father of three powerful and creative young girls.

[Link: www.dreamreborn.org...]

506 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:46:45am

re: #178 avanti

I disagree 100 %. If anything, Obama's tone has been consistently mellow, perhaps too much so for my taste in the face of some of the ridiculous attacks on him because for some the right hates the left, and of course, the reverse.

"We gotta get in their faces..."

507 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:46:52am

Green is good without question.

508 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:47:09am

re: #501 Walter L. Newton

"The finger-biting incident occurred after a member of the group protesting healthcare reform — William Rice, 65, of Newbury Park — became involved in a heated discussion with a member of Code Pink, sheriff’s Capt. Ross Bonfiglio said.

After the argument, Rice returned to where his own group was standing. A man from Moveon.org’s area then walked over to the opponents and verbally confronted Rice, allegedly calling him names and acting aggressively, Bonfiglio said."

Article said the aggression came from the Move On person.

Uh...

After the argument, Rice returned to where his own group was standing. A man from Moveon.org’s area then walked over to the opponents and verbally confronted Rice, allegedly calling him names and acting aggressively, Bonfiglio said.

Rice later told investigators he felt threatened by the man and punched him in the nose, Bonfiglio said.

The violence was started by the anti-Obama demonstrator. He said it very explicitly himself.

509 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:47:36am

re: #506 Noam Sayin'


Wow, am I far behind. That second quote was of Obama, btw.

510 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:47:37am

re: #496 unrealizedviewpoint

It's no sekrit. He said it. I'm wanting to know when he took it back.

I'll look at the book "eco-capitalism?"
I suspect it calls for fundamental change to the worlds economy in the name of green.

You can look here:

The Green Collar Economy: How One Solution Can Fix Our Two Biggest Problems

I always find single solution memes to be suspect. Our society and economy is far more integrated then that.

511 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:47:42am

re: #429 Gus 802

At this point it's difficult for me to remove Glenn Beck from the issue of Van Jones. I in no way support Glenn Beck's rhetoric. However, I firmly oppose Van Jones being in the position of Green Jobs Czar.

I am so out of the loop. Glenn Beck talks about Van Jones? I thought I was the only one who knew Jones' past.

512 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:47:45am

re: #498 Cannadian Club Akbar

That's not the Van Jones I knew.TM

Under the bus in... 3,2,1..

513 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:47:53am

re: #502 zombie

The same can be said of MANY mainstream news organizations, as documented here extensively.

The Washington Times in fact has over the last two years really tried to clean up its act and stop being so hyperbolic.

No, they haven't.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

514 Darwin Akbar  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:48:06am

I always wanted to give Obama the finger...but now I can outsource it and give him somebody else's finger.

..and Van Jones has been very clear that his goal is to use environmentalism to redistribute wealth. He is another one of those leftists to whom the question itself is irrelevant...the answer is always the same - Global Socialism.

515 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:48:08am

No fingers for Healthcare...No fingers for Healthcare...No fingers for Healthcare!

Figurative arms and legs ARE ok though.

516 Greengolem64  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:48:15am

re: #7 Last Mohican

An awful story. I hope this madness ends soon, but unfortunately it just looks like things are getting worse. It could have been a lot worse if someone there had brought a gun.

Your second sentence is pretty unfair in it's own right. LOTS of assumptions made in that simple one line statement...AND...more than likely there were guns there. Most normal and grounded (...hate that I have to put that qualifier, but) folks who have CCW permits do NOT flaunt the fact that they are carrying.

Your assumption that a weapon being present in that situation would have been worse is specious at best and fallacious at worst. A nice 'what if' scenario...

GG

517 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:48:29am

re: #493 zombie

Interesting!

I'm waiting for Jones' denial any moment now.

Troofers lie continuously, consistently, and shamelessly; it's the nature of their business, but I don't think they could get away with directly mis-appropriating the names of prominent celebrities, many of whom have full-time employees and agents who do nothing but track down such mis-appropriation.
Our problem at this point is that a raving loon, Glenn Beck, has positioned himself as Jones's leading public critic, undermining the credibility of everything we find about Jones and his shady past.

518 CommonCents  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:48:37am

re: #483 Kosh's Shadow

And they got it from the 1950's Sheb Wolley song.

Youtube Video

Sorry, that was WELL before my time.

519 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:48:41am

re: #504 Coracle

The article also says where the first punch came from.

And, it also says who crossed the street and started the entire confrontation as well

520 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:48:54am

Beck might be nuts, but that doesn't mean Jones isn't a radical

521 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:49:08am

re: #504 Coracle

The article also says where the first punch came from.

If someone was acting aggressively with me, I would consider the option and possibly punch him. It would depend if I thought there was a valid threat and I needed to make the first move.

And of course, biting off a finger was a proper response to a punch. I guess the Move On guy was acting defensively.

It sound like from the get go, the Move On guy was the instigator of all this.

Can't we all just get along, no.

522 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:49:08am

re: #511 zombie

I am so out of the loop. Glenn Beck talks about Van Jones? I thought I was the only one who knew Jones' past.

Seriously? It's been Glenn Beck vs. Van Jones for the past few weeks. Well, Glenn Beck is doing all the talking screaming.

523 subsailor68  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:49:15am

re: #507 unrealizedviewpoint

Green is good without question.

Isn't that the motto of Gordon Gecko?

;-)

524 aRedPhishHead  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:49:25am

re: #506 Noam Sayin'

"We gotta get in their faces..."

Which is exactly what the Obamacrat did to the elderly man whose finger he bit off.

Looks like that "mellow tone" from our President is paying dividends, huh?

And where is the Obamacrat who bit this guy's finger off? The police are still looking for him because he took off, according to AP and other accounts.

525 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:49:31am

re: #507 unrealizedviewpoint

Green is good without question.

I think it's worth continuing to ask how anyone who uses the term defines "green."

526 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:50:13am

re: #362 MandyManners

"No matter who ultimately is to blame for these bombings

What in the world? Who else is to blame but those who plotted and committed those acts?

I think they intended to mean attacking innocent Saudi's or Arab citizens is wrong. I see nothing wrong with one minority sticking up for another.

527 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:50:25am

re: #451 reloadingisnotahobby

So did he really name his kid" CHE"???

That I don't know.

528 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:50:26am

re: #525 jaunte

I think it's worth continuing to ask how anyone who uses the term defines "green."

Green is the color of the money that I lack.

/

529 Dreader1962  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:50:39am

re: #519 Desert Dog

And, it also says who crossed the street and started the entire confrontation as well

I'll say it again - the 'biter' needs to turn himself into police to avoid some serious charges. I believe after looking at the various accounts that the anti-Obama protester swung first and the fight escalated; also that the anti-Obama protester had his hands in the face of the pro-Obama man, but ducking down and hiding is not a good response when you've been in a fight and the police are involved.

530 Lincolntf  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:50:47am

re: #503 Ringo the Gringo

It's been about 18 hours (I think) since this happened and there's no YouTube yet. That seems a bit discouraging.
Did you ask any of the people who are in the know about the possibility of video?

531 MJ  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:50:53am

re: #511 zombie

I am so out of the loop. Glenn Beck talks about Van Jones? I thought I was the only one who knew Jones' past.

Count two of us. i wasn't aware that beck is on Jones.
However, that in of itself does not mean that Jones shouldn't be examined.

532 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:50:55am

re: #511 zombie

I am so out of the loop. Glenn Beck talks about Van Jones? I thought I was the only one who knew Jones' past.

I first learned about him here.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

533 tollhouse  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:50:55am

The fact that the biter fled the scene seems to strongly indicate guilt.

534 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:51:03am

re: #524 aRedPhishHead

Which is exactly what the Obamacrat did to the elderly man whose finger he bit off.

Looks like that "mellow tone" from our President is paying dividends, huh?

And where is the Obamacrat who bit this guy's finger off? The police are still looking for him because he took off, according to AP and other accounts.

But Mr. Rice was the aggressor. They have their man.
/

535 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:51:16am

re: #519 Desert Dog

re: #521 Walter L. Newton

If someone was acting aggressively with me, I would consider the option and possibly punch him. It would depend if I thought there was a valid threat and I needed to make the first move.

And of course, biting off a finger was a proper response to a punch. I guess the Move On guy was acting defensively.

It sound like from the get go, the Move On guy was the instigator of all this.

Can't we all just get along, no.

Who would you be defending if the roles had been reversed?

536 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:51:22am

re: #435 Walter L. Newton

SOROS!

Can we just find someone to take down his organization already?

James Bond?
Napoleon Solo?
Simon Templar?
Number 6?
Jim Phelps and his IMF team? (the good one, not that abomination from the Tom Cruise movies)
Matt Helm?
Austin Powers?
Lancelot Link?

537 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:51:25am
538 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:52:09am

re: #504 Coracle

The article also says where the first punch came from.

How anyone here can defend biting off a senior citizen's finger in response to being punched is beyond me.
Spin it however you like, it's a crazy, sissy, dirty, filthy, cowardly, gross over-reaction.

539 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:52:22am

re: #533 tollhouse

The fact that the biter fled the scene seems to strongly indicate guilt.

It doesn't matter, Mr. Rice was the aggressor. He started the violence.
/

540 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:52:29am

The biter will pay more in the end, for escalation, than the bitee will pay for initiation.

541 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:52:31am

re: #534 Walter L. Newton

But Mr. Rice was the aggressor. They have their man.
/

He WAS the aggressor. He punched the other guy in the face, without being assaulted himself first.

I have no idea why you're trying to deny this.

542 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:52:32am

re: #533 tollhouse

The fact that the biter fled the scene seems to strongly indicate guilt.

You've waited a long time to post that...

543 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:52:47am

re: #537 buzzsawmonkey

The anti-reform demonstrator doesn't think Obamacare is a good idea.

I wonder what gave him the tipoff?

Waiting for the puns to flow has been a real nail-biter

544 irish rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:53:11am

Personally? I think it's only a matter of time before people start shooting each other.

Respectful political discourse, R.I.P.

545 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:53:15am

re: #541 Charles

Our Side Can Do No Wrong. Other Side Can Do No Right.

546 MJ  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:53:17am

re: #543 Creeping Eruption

Waiting for the puns to flow has been a real nail-biter

You nailed it.

547 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:53:27am

re: #542 wrenchwench

You've waited a long time to post that...

These threads always bring out the sleepers.

548 CommonCents  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:53:34am

re: #538 Spare O'Lake

How anyone here can defend biting off a senior citizen's finger in response to being punched is beyond me.
Spin it however you like, it's a crazy, sissy, dirty, filthy, cowardly, gross over-reaction.

And it wasn't a punch. It was an open-handed shove the face. In hockey we call that a face-wash and nobody loses a digit. 99% of the time there isn't even a penalty called.

549 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:53:46am

re: #491 Fenway_Nation

Is this the same Van Jones who admitted to being a not-so-secret commie in the wake of the Rodney King verdict?

Yep, he said that he went that far left for a time before moving back to just very liberal as he got older and wiser.

550 chotii  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:53:48am

re: #102 Diego

I predict the biting of the finger will be because the guy had his hands on the other guy's face. I can only guess and I wouldn't certainly bite someone if they had my face in a hold and had just punched me..

That was also my thought. If somebody is grappling with you and shoves their finger in your mouth, you might well bite. But of course, no video == who the heck knows?

551 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:53:51am

NEWS FLASH: MAN ON MEDICARE IS AGAINST SOCIAL MEDICINE (film at 11)


//

552 KenJen  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:54:02am

re: #543 Creeping Eruption

Waiting for the puns to flow has been a real nail-biter

Quick! Pull my finger.

553 wahabicorridor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:54:11am

re: #511 zombie

I am so out of the loop. Glenn Beck talks about Van Jones? I thought I was the only one who knew Jones' past.


zombie, zombie, zombie, ye of little faith.

554 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:54:14am

re: #546 MJ

You nailed it.

Cut to the quick

555 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:54:16am

Dropping by for a few minutes. No time to read thread...y'all figure out who's to blame? Looks like orange shirt dude was being an asshole to the chick, then the chick's friend called orange some names, then orange punched the friend and got his pinky chomped off. That about right?

556 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:54:25am

re: #544 irish rose

Personally? I think it's only a matter of time before people start shooting each other.

Respectful political discourse, R.I.P.

Took the words right off my keyboard. Well, almost. I was going it was a good thing neither of these people had a gun there.

557 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:54:34am

re: #548 CommonCents

And it wasn't a punch. It was an open-handed shove the face. In hockey we call that a face-wash and nobody loses a digit. 99% of the time there isn't even a penalty called.

It WAS a punch. He said so himself!

Rice later told investigators he felt threatened by the man and punched him in the nose, Bonfiglio said.

Good grief.

558 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:54:36am

re: #548 CommonCents

And it wasn't a punch. It was an open-handed shove the face. In hockey we call that a face-wash and nobody loses a digit. 99% of the time there isn't even a penalty called.

Isn't hard to bite through the gloves?

559 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:54:44am

Was this posted?

Authorities said they are looking for a white male in his late 40s or 50s who was last seen wearing black shorts and a black shirt.

“We’re still trying to figure out who was the aggressor,” Buschow said.

Anyone with information is asked to call the Ventura Sheriff’s Department.

[Link: latimesblogs.latimes.com...]

561 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:55:18am

re: #535 Coracle

re: #521 Walter L. Newton

Who would you be defending if the roles had been reversed?

The Move On guy.

I have no problem with throwing a punch. It's sometimes needed. I have no problem with self defense. It's sometimes needed. And if I start acting the same way to another person, then I put myself in the same possible situation, I may get punched. Bitting a finger off, pulling a gun or knife, wrong response.

But I am not a pacifist.

562 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:55:27am

re: #552 KenJen

Quick! Pull my finger.

Son, get back to class.

563 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:55:35am

re: #529 Dreader1962

I'll say it again - the 'biter' needs to turn himself into police to avoid some serious charges. I believe after looking at the various accounts that the anti-Obama protester swung first and the fight escalated; also that the anti-Obama protester had his hands in the face of the pro-Obama man, but ducking down and hiding is not a good response when you've been in a fight and the police are involved.

I'll say this again too, the MoveOn.org jerk started this entire thing by purposely walking across the street and inciting the entire episode.

You should not bite someone's finger off, no matter what the deal is. It sounds like BOTH sides overreacted. But, this matter would have been moot if the MoveOn.org jerk just kept his distance. What did he think would happen if he starts up like that?

564 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:55:38am

re: #457 Charles

If Van Jones is really a sekrit commie, don't you think it's a little odd that he would write a book promoting "eco-capitalism?"

I sure am glad nobody's digging up every stupid statement I made in my youth.

He's not a secret commie, he was quite out in the open about it. For decades.

Then, starting a couple years ago, he decided to mainstreamize his message and jump on the "green" bandwagon.

Looks like his rebranding paid off, with a position in the White House.

But just like many people who try to re-brand themselves (many of which were exposed here: BNP, VB, etc.), the new façade is a flimsy cover for the old beliefs.

565 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:55:40am
566 wahabicorridor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:56:05am

re: #514 Darwin Akbar

updinged for the grins...

567 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:56:12am

re: #518 CommonCents

Sorry, that was WELL before my time.

I wouldn't remember it from when it was new, but it got a lot of play on Dr. Demento.

And Mickey Katz parodied it as "The Poiple Kishke Eater"

568 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:56:37am

re: #533 tollhouse

The fact that the biter fled the scene seems to strongly indicate guilt.

Wow..one post in 2 years? There is no way in hell that you've been waiting years just to post on this thread...who's socky are you?

569 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:57:14am

re: #564 zombie

And the American ppl know it.
/Now where is that bus?

570 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:57:16am

re: #564 zombie

He's not a secret commie, he was quite out in the open about it. For decades.

Then, starting a couple years ago, he decided to mainstreamize his message and jump on the "green" bandwagon.

Looks like his rebranding paid off, with a position in the White House.

But just like many people who try to re-brand themselves (many of which were exposed here: BNP, VB, etc.), the new façade is a flimsy cover for the old beliefs.

Sounds like he is a text-book example of a watermelon.

571 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:57:20am

re: #565 buzzsawmonkey

Thread's getting heated. We need some calming music: I suggest Simon and Garfunkel doing "Scarborough Fair/Cuticle."

a soothing mani/pedi? Oh wait . . .

572 Greengolem64  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:57:38am

re: #539 Walter L. Newton

It doesn't matter, Mr. Rice was the aggressor. He started the violence.
/

But it's ALWAYS the second guy in...just watch NFL!! :)

/s

573 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:57:50am

re: #565 buzzsawmonkey

Thread's getting heated. We need some calming music: I suggest Simon and Garfunkel doing "Scarborough Fair/Cuticle."

A nice relaxing session of karate training with my bo staff would just about do it.

574 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:57:53am

re: #542 wrenchwench

Well, tollhouse is a chip off the old block... /

575 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:57:57am

re: #541 Charles

He WAS the aggressor. He punched the other guy in the face, without being assaulted himself first.

I have no idea why you're trying to deny this.

I'm not Charles. But I am suggesting that Mr. Rice's decision to throw a punch may have been well warranted. The indication was that the Move On guy was being aggressive. That's all I'm saying, which is basically just my opinion, just how I would have handled it, going only on the information I have in these articles.

I'm not saying anyone was right, but I am not saying I know that everyone was wrong. I wasn't there, I don't have the whole story.

576 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:58:03am

re: #570 MandyManners

Sounds like he is a text-book example of a watermelon.

Green on the outside and red in the middle? That is funny!

577 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:58:04am

re: #560 Ben Hur

Good point. Politics is like a soccer game -- the ball keeps moving back and forth between teams. However, the underlying personal objectives or psychology remain constant.

578 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:58:18am

re: #570 MandyManners

Sounds like he is a text-book example of a watermelon.

RACIST!!

579 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:58:23am

re: #561 Walter L. Newton

I have no problem with throwing a punch. It's sometimes needed. I have no problem with self defense. It's sometimes needed. And if I start acting the same way to another person, then I put myself in the same possible situation, I may get punched. Bitting a finger off, pulling a gun or knife, wrong response.

NPD

580 irish rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:58:25am

re: #529 Dreader1962

I I believe after looking at the various accounts that the anti-Obama protester swung first and the fight escalated

Correct.
"Feeling threatened" is an emotional response.

But throwing a punch is a physical response... a clear, deliberate and prosecutable act of aggression.

The anti-Obama dude started it.

581 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:58:28am

re: #563 Desert Dog

I'll say this again too, the MoveOn.org jerk started this entire thing by purposely walking across the street and inciting the entire episode.

You should not bite someone's finger off, no matter what the deal is. It sounds like BOTH sides overreacted. But, this matter would have been moot if the MoveOn.org jerk just kept his distance. What did he think would happen if he starts up like that?

And you don't physically assault someone just because you're involved in a verbal altercation. I'm amazed that there are people who seem to think that was an appropriate reaction.

582 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:58:41am

re: #563 Desert Dog

I'll say this again too, the MoveOn.org jerk started this entire thing by purposely walking across the street and inciting the entire episode.

You should not bite someone's finger off, no matter what the deal is. It sounds like BOTH sides overreacted. But, this matter would have been moot if the MoveOn.org jerk just kept his distance. What did he think would happen if he starts up like that?

Nope, it's Mr. Rices whole fault.
/

583 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:59:13am

re: #579 JamesTKirk

NPD

I don't know what NDP means.

584 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:59:25am

re: #582 Walter L. Newton

Nope, it's Mr. Rices whole fault.
/

He started the violence, no matter how much you're trying to confuse the issue. He said so himself.

585 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:59:27am

re: #583 Walter L. Newton

I don't know what NDP means.

Sorry. "No Permanent Damage."

586 gregb  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:59:45am

re: #467 JamesTKirk

They're not?

Stalkers are so lazy these days.

There's a gap with modern youth that history that happened after 1969 and before the popularization of the Web and search engines--call it 1995 for all practical purposes--didn't exist.

587 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:59:51am

re: #545 Coracle

Our Side Can Do No Wrong. Other Side Can Do No Right.

Both sides can do right and both sides can do wrong...but you'd never know sometimes

588 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:59:57am

I Googled Van Jones and George Soros.

[Link: clipmarks.com...]

589 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:00:23am

re: #469 Wendya

A little more information including the name of the man bitten:

[Link: www.venturacountystar.com...]

Upding for a factual link!

Also note this from the Ventura Star article:

"The suspect fled the scene, authorities said. He was described as a short man with a medium build, wearing a blue cap, black shirt and black shorts. He remained at large this morning.

Anyone with information can call Crime Stoppers at 800-222-TIPS."

Obviously there are people on the pro-Obama side of the street who know EXACTLY who this guy was. Will they cooperate with the police? Doubtful.

590 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:00:29am

re: #576 Desert Dog

Green on the outside and red in the middle? That is funny!

I got it here.

591 tollhouse  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:00:30am

I can't say I was chomping at the bit to cut my teeth with a post. Normally I never read the comments, but this story is pretty confusing with all the backhanded spin and digital noise.

592 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:00:43am

re: #511 zombie

I am so out of the loop. Glenn Beck talks about Van Jones? I thought I was the only one who knew Jones' past.

Beck was all over Jones for about a week, then he, Beck, moved on to exposing the sekrit commie and nazi art Rockefeller had placed around Manhattan. The latter, btw, was the single most insane rant I have seen on network TV and that is saying a hell of a lot.

593 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:00:48am

re: #577 Gus 802

Good point. Politics is like a soccer game -- the ball keeps moving back and forth between teams. However, the underlying personal objectives or psychology remain constant.

I hope they don't take off their shirts when they score a goal...I don't think I could handle seeing some of our politicians in that way

594 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:00:52am

re: #575 Walter L. Newton

I'm not Charles. But I am suggesting that Mr. Rice's decision to throw a punch may have been well warranted. The indication was that the Move On guy was being aggressive. That's all I'm saying, which is basically just my opinion, just how I would have handled it, going only on the information I have in these articles.

I'm not saying anyone was right, but I am not saying I know that everyone was wrong. I wasn't there, I don't have the whole story.

Many years ago, in a pool hall, a guy was gonna kick my ass. Any second it was going down. He would'a hurt me. I put him down in one with a sneak shot. Who was the aggressor?

595 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:00:53am

re: #578 Cannadian Club Akbar

RACIST!!

Huh?

596 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:00:58am

re: #561 Walter L. Newton

Violence is the last resort of...


OUtside of the boxing ring, he who punches first is wrong.

597 fizzlogic  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:01:14am

Here's a great video illustrating the horrors of Canadian single payor healthcare:

Youtube Video

"What can be added to the happiness of a man who is in health, out of debt, and has a clear conscience? - Adam Smith"

598 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:01:34am
599 aRedPhishHead  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:01:52am

re: #539 Walter L. NewtonThis might be true, but other eyewitness accounts, including one caller on the Limbaugh (with Mark Steyn) show who was actually in the protest group opposing Obamacare, said that the Obamacrat was in the man's face and wouldn't leave him alone - he made it a point to say that while the Obamacrat wasn't "attacking" him, he was very confrontational, "unpredictable" and within the man's personal space (practically standing on his shoes).

Doesn't justify violence at all. It does explain why the Obamacrat may have gotten an initial shove as a warning, though. Which is, IMHO, completely justified. In the heat of the moment, this old man had no idea what this clown was going to do, so he probably overreacted to the provocateur. I wasn't there, so I can say for sure, but this is what I've gleaned from reading and hearing about this all mourning.

The Obamacrat was the provocateur here, not the old man. The old man initiated the violence because he probably thought there was some danger to his person (which obviously was the goal of the provocateur), and the old man got his finger bitten off by the Obamacrat who then fled the scene.

600 Dreader1962  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:01:56am

re: #563 Desert Dog

I'll say this again too, the MoveOn.org jerk started this entire thing by purposely walking across the street and inciting the entire episode.

You should not bite someone's finger off, no matter what the deal is. It sounds like BOTH sides overreacted. But, this matter would have been moot if the MoveOn.org jerk just kept his distance. What did he think would happen if he starts up like that?

Crossing the street is not inherently incitement. Heated words (in most states) is not incitement. Some states have 'fighting words' clauses that mitigate a case where someone throws the first punch, but I really doubt that would be supported in this case because of the protesting atmosphere. Also, once blows are exchanged, the law normally doesn't care about assessing the various injuries. Escalation to weapons or continued assault after the opponent is not returning blows is usually the only situation where one side of an altercation has more culpability.

Of course, this is for the police and courts to resolve. My point about the other participant turning himself in does not presume he is more guilty, just that he needs to do it from a law enforcement angle and it's the smart thing to do for his upcoming defense against any charges.

601 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:02:02am

re: #594 unrealizedviewpoint

Many years ago, in a pool hall, a guy was gonna kick my ass. Any second it was going down. He would'a hurt me. I put him down in one with a sneak shot. Who was the aggressor?

/The girl you were with that threw a beer in his face

602 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:02:16am

re: #591 tollhouse

I can't say I was chomping at the bit to cut my teeth with a post. Normally I never read the comments, but this story is pretty confusing with all the backhanded spin and digital noise.

Good punery!

603 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:02:17am

re: #476 Shiplord Kirel

If the signatures are not legit, Jones, Medea Benjamin, Jeanine Garofalo, Ed Asner, and a host of other lefty celebrities have a strong case for a lawsuit. The list has been up for almost five years.

That's exactly what I said upthread. The likely reason no one's sued the Truthers for slander is that those celebrities did indeed sign that list.

604 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:02:23am

re: #596 Coracle

Violence is the last resort of...

OUtside of the boxing ring, he who punches first is wrong.

Not always

Was Israel wrong in 1967? The threw the first punch.

605 Kenneth  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:02:35am

re: #339 thedopefishlives

Are we sure that's the same Van Jones? I confess I haven't read all his credentials. That doesn't necessarily validate the Truthers' claim, though. Just means he's an idiot (but we already knew that, right?)

It's the same Van Jones. It is well known he once headed the openly Marxists organization STORM. The quotation is not really a troofer talking point, but it was early days after 9-11 & the troofer thing had not yet gotten rolling. Was Van Jones headed in that direction?

I posted that because I googled "Van Jone"s +9-11 and that was one of the few items I found other than the recent discover that his name is on a 9-11 Truther list. As Charles prudently points out, anybody could put that name on the list. It's no proof it's the same Van Jones. And anything at a Troofer site is suspect. That said, Jones is verifiable involved in a number of flaky political causes, so trooferism is not out of the question.

606 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:02:38am

re: #565 buzzsawmonkey

Thread's getting heated. We need some calming music: I suggest Simon and Garfunkel doing "Scarborough Fair/Cuticle."

Simon really knows his way around the fingerboard.

607 Last Mohican  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:02:49am

re: #516 Greengolem64

Your second sentence is pretty unfair in it's own right. LOTS of assumptions made in that simple one line statement...AND...more than likely there were guns there. Most normal and grounded (...hate that I have to put that qualifier, but) folks who have CCW permits do NOT flaunt the fact that they are carrying.

Your assumption that a weapon being present in that situation would have been worse is specious at best and fallacious at worst. A nice 'what if' scenario...

GG

I do not believe that there were probably guns there. I believe that it is rare for private citizens in California to be carrying concealed firearms, at political demonstrations or elsewhere. In a crowd of 100-200 people, it's likely that nobody had a gun.

I will also reiterate my belief that, when people get involved in altercations in which they are so out of control that they bite someone else's finger off, someone's likely to get shot if one of the people in the fight has a gun.

608 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:02:57am

re: #596 Coracle

Violence is the last resort of...

OUtside of the boxing ring, he who punches first is wrong.

Violence is the last resort of... a lot of smart justified living people.

609 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:03:07am

re: #588 MandyManners

I Googled Van Jones and George Soros.

In bed.

610 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:03:12am

re: #581 Charles

And you don't physically assault someone just because you're involved in a verbal altercation. I'm amazed that there are people who seem to think that was an appropriate reaction.

So you have to wait until you get assaulted before you defend yourself? Not saying that's what happened, but pre-emptive punches can sometimes be legit, IMO. Depends on the situation.

611 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:04:05am

re: #601 Creeping Eruption

/The girl you were with that threw a beer in his face

My date abandoned me there. I was a brute!

612 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:04:18am

re: #610 Danny

So you have to wait until you get assaulted before you defend yourself? Not saying that's what happened, but pre-emptive punches can sometimes be legit, IMO. Depends on the situation.

And in the eyes of the law, you are the aggressor if you throw the first punch - _no matter what_. It may not be fair, but it is what it is.

613 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:04:18am

re: #590 MandyManners

I got it here.

It's pretty old. I first heard "watermelon" used in the 80s to describe the Greens in Europe (especially Germany). I have no idea exactly when the term was coined.

614 Greengolem64  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:04:23am

re: #599 aRedPhishHead

This might be true, but other eyewitness accounts, including one caller on the Limbaugh (with Mark Steyn) show who was actually in the protest group opposing Obamacare, said that the Obamacrat was in the man's face and wouldn't leave him alone - he made it a point to say that while the Obamacrat wasn't "attacking" him, he was very confrontational, "unpredictable" and within the man's personal space (practically standing on his shoes).

Doesn't justify violence at all. It does explain why the Obamacrat may have gotten an initial shove as a warning, though. Which is, IMHO, completely justified. In the heat of the moment, this old man had no idea what this clown was going to do, so he probably overreacted to the provocateur. I wasn't there, so I can say for sure, but this is what I've gleaned from reading and hearing about this all mourning.

The Obamacrat was the provocateur here, not the old man. The old man initiated the violence because he probably thought there was some danger to his person (which obviously was the goal of the provocateur), and the old man got his finger bitten off by the Obamacrat who then fled the scene.

And that about 'caps' it. Nice summation.

615 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:04:28am

re: #600 Dreader1962

Crossing the street is not inherently incitement. Heated words (in most states) is not incitement. Some states have 'fighting words' clauses that mitigate a case where someone throws the first punch, but I really doubt that would be supported in this case because of the protesting atmosphere. Also, once blows are exchanged, the law normally doesn't care about assessing the various injuries. Escalation to weapons or continued assault after the opponent is not returning blows is usually the only situation where one side of an altercation has more culpability.

Of course, this is for the police and courts to resolve. My point about the other participant turning himself in does not presume he is more guilty, just that he needs to do it from a law enforcement angle and it's the smart thing to do for his upcoming defense against any charges.

Ahhh, so the next protest I go too, I can walk right up to the "other side", get in their faces, start up with the name calling and it's not incitement. When the cops come and arrest me, I will just tell them Dreader1962 on LGF said it's ok. I can even bite off a finger or an ear or a nose too...it would be self-defense, afterall.

616 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:04:37am

re: #609 JamesTKirk

In bed.

Much-appreciated laugh.

617 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:04:51am

re: #580 irish rose

Correct.
"Feeling threatened" is an emotional response.

But throwing a punch is a physical response... a clear, deliberate and prosecutable act of aggression.

The anti-Obama dude started it.

He "started it" because he threw a punch?

That when it "started?"

618 CommonCents  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:05:04am

re: #557 Charles

Good grief.

Don't take everything so seriously Charles Brown.
/

619 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:05:04am

re: #591 tollhouse

I can't say I was chomping at the bit to cut my teeth with a post. Normally I never read the comments, but this story is pretty confusing with all the backhanded spin and digital noise.

Really? OK...So for the last couple of years with all the thousands of threads of several million posts over stories that make this one look playschool and never once..Not once did you even say Hi...
So I guess a welcome to LGF is in order...

620 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:05:09am

re: #468 wahabicorridor

A day or two? Hell David Asner was naming Osama bin Laden w/in 30 minutes.

That whole week is a blur for me. I thought it was pretty quick; I just recall that within a day or two I knew what was happening.

621 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:05:28am

re: #482 Ringo the Gringo

I haven't read all of the comments here, so sorry if this has already been posted: Man at MoveOn.org healthcare vigil bites off opponent's finger

Excellent eyewitness account!

Someone needs to compile these to sort it all out.

622 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:05:33am

re: #612 thedopefishlives

And in the eyes of the law, you are the aggressor if you throw the first punch - _no matter what_. It may not be fair, but it is what it is.

Not true where I live. If you are in imminent danger of harm, you can legally defend yourself with force.

623 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:05:40am

re: #612 thedopefishlives

And in the eyes of the law, you are the aggressor if you throw the first punch - _no matter what_. It may not be fair, but it is what it is.

"Fighting words"

624 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:05:44am

re: #604 Desert Dog

Not always

Was Israel wrong in 1967? The threw the first punch.

No. Apples and Hand grenades. Do you think that a war for national survival is in any way comparable to a street altercation over a policy proposal?

625 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:05:56am

re: #604 Desert Dog

Not always

Was Israel wrong in 1967? The threw the first punch.

Wrong. The Egyptians closed the Strait of Tiran, a casus belli for war. Israel's strikes against the Egyptian airfields was a direct result of the Egyptian action, which itself was preceded by Egyptian threats against Israel and ongoing attacks from Egyptian and Syrian gun batteries.

626 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:06:07am

re: #616 MandyManners

Much-appreciated laugh.

Please don't laugh at me in bed.

O, my fragile male ego!

627 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:06:08am

re: #594 unrealizedviewpoint

Many years ago, in a pool hall, a guy was gonna kick my ass. Any second it was going down. He would'a hurt me. I put him down in one with a sneak shot. Who was the aggressor?

Well, it apparently depends.

If you support my position, the other guy.

If I want to prove somehow that you've "gone of the rails," then you.

628 Kenneth  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:06:10am

re: #350 Killgore Trout

That's not really trutherism, is it? They're just warning against backlash.

That rally was only a few days after 9-11, and Trooferism had not yet infected the host. It suggests Van Jones was heading in that direction, but is not proof of Trooferistic thoughts.

Why doesn't somebody just ask Van Jones about it? "Did you sign the 9-11 Truth online petition?" I saw Ed Asner's name on that list too, so quite a few lefty tools signed on.

629 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:06:16am

This place is like the Comedy Store.

630 Dreader1962  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:06:27am

re: #615 Desert Dog

Ahhh, so the next protest I go too, I can walk right up to the "other side", get in their faces, start up with the name calling and it's not incitement. When the cops come and arrest me, I will just tell them Dreader1962 on LGF said it's ok. I can even bite off a finger or an ear or a nose too...it would be self-defense, afterall.

That's not what I said at all and you know it.

631 wahabicorridor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:06:47am

re: #598 buzzsawmonkey

Someone mentioned that many burgers nowadays have been padded with soy protein.

Are they doing that and not labelling? 'Cuz I've never seen it. And it could be dangerous for people whose thyoid glands underperform - soy inhibits the updake of iodine.

632 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:07:03am

re: #581 Charles

And you don't physically assault someone just because you're involved in a verbal altercation. I'm amazed that there are people who seem to think that was an appropriate reaction.

We could consult O.R. or Lawhawk or another legal expert, but I believe getting in one's face and yelling can constitute assault and be grounds for a physical response under the rubric of self-defense.

633 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:07:16am

Personally, I'd never punch someone in the face. You could cut your hand on their teeth and get a bad infection, or worse!

634 Greengolem64  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:07:20am

re: #607 Last Mohican

I do not believe that there were probably guns there. I believe that it is rare for private citizens in California to be carrying concealed firearms, at political demonstrations or elsewhere. In a crowd of 100-200 people, it's likely that nobody had a gun.

I will also reiterate my belief that, when people get involved in altercations in which they are so out of control that they bite someone else's finger off, someone's likely to get shot if one of the people in the fight has a gun.

You go right on believing that there were no guns there... ;)

My 'other' point is you make a statement that has no basis in fact and is no different than those who are making the arguments against OBAMACARE using 'scary' speech and scare tactics.

Don't want to change focus of the discussion...but that WAS an unfair statement.

635 El fantasma de General Pinochet  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:07:31am

Los izquierdistas son caníbales. Individualmente y colectivamente.

636 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:07:38am

re: #611 unrealizedviewpoint

My date abandoned me there. I was a brute!

So she threw it in your face, and some got on the other guy?

637 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:07:42am

re: #623 JamesTKirk

"Fighting words"

There is no "fighting words" excuse in California. If you throw the first punch, you are legally the aggressor. Period.

638 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:07:46am

re: #622 Danny

Not true where I live. If you are in imminent danger of harm, you can legally defend yourself with force.

Oh really? Where I live, actually, the line is way on the other side - even if someone swings at me, I can't defend myself without getting charged with assault (in such a case, we'd both be charged). Only if it's clear that my life is endangered and I must resort to force to preserve my life could I possibly get away without being charged.

639 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:08:14am

re: #617 Ben Hur

He "started it" because he threw a punch?

That when it "started?"

When I'm splitting up a fight between kids, that's exactly when it starts. The first violent act is the start. Everything before then could have been solved another way.

640 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:08:15am

re: #631 wahabicorridor

Are they doing that and not labelling? 'Cuz I've never seen it. And it could be dangerous for people whose thyoid glands underperform - soy inhibits the updake of iodine.

If I pay for beef, I expect beef (or a reasonable facsimile, from McDonalds). If I feel like soy, I'll buy something labeled and marketed as soy (which I do on occasion).

641 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:08:27am

re: #637 Charles

There is no "fighting words" excuse in California. If you throw the first punch, you are legally the aggressor. Period.

That sounds like CA.

642 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:08:36am
643 redstateredneck  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:08:40am

re: #599 aRedPhishHead
That was my understanding, also.

BTW, Good afternoon, {most of y'all}.

644 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:08:42am

re: #638 thedopefishlives

Oh really? Where I live, actually, the line is way on the other side - even if someone swings at me, I can't defend myself without getting charged with assault (in such a case, we'd both be charged). Only if it's clear that my life is endangered and I must resort to force to preserve my life could I possibly get away without being charged.

Damn. Glad I don't live where you do.

645 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:08:52am

re: #623 JamesTKirk

"Fighting words"

Someone who calls me that "c" word,...

646 Perplexed  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:08:54am

Idi Amin there by any chance?

647 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:09:10am

re: #503 Ringo the Gringo

I'm pretty sure I know someone who knows the biter's identity.

Perhaps you can play a role in this case by getting the person who knows to contact the police.

648 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:09:15am

re: #624 Coracle

No. Apples and Hand grenades. Do you think that a war for national survival is in any way comparable to a street altercation over a policy proposal?

Not any more than cooking for one person is a microcosm of cooking for a thousand people. Principles can span many situations, morals can save one life or a million lives, missed an opportunity and a child may die, or a nation.

649 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:09:25am

re: #626 JamesTKirk

Please don't laugh at me in bed.

O, my fragile male ego!

Only if I point.

650 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:09:43am

re: #637 Charles

There is no "fighting words" excuse in California. If you throw the first punch, you are legally the aggressor. Period.

I apologize. The original comment just said "in the eyes of the law" without specifying jurisdiction. I have no idea what California considers legal or reasonable sometimes.

651 theuglydougling  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:09:53am

I had no idea Kenneth Gladney swung first, or had his finger bitten off. Oh wait, I'm thinking of the SEIU beatdown from several weeks ago.

//

652 MJ  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:10:17am

re: #628 Kenneth

That rally was only a few days after 9-11, and Trooferism had not yet infected the host. It suggests Van Jones was heading in that direction, but is not proof of Trooferistic thoughts.

Why doesn't somebody just ask Van Jones about it? "Did you sign the 9-11 Truth online petition?" I saw Ed Asner's name on that list too, so quite a few lefty tools signed on.

Did you get the memo that says the job of the White House Press Corp is not to ask questions but rather to defend every decision the White House makes?

653 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:10:20am
654 NukeAtomrod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:10:27am

re: #541 Charles

He WAS the aggressor. He punched the other guy in the face, without being assaulted himself first.

I have no idea why you're trying to deny this.

I'm doubtful of the reporting, but let's assume that Rice threw a punch with only verbal provocation. If you're the guy that got punched, do you:

A: Punch back.
B: Flee.
C: Flee, then call the police
D: Flee, then try to get sympathy for your fellow protesters.
E: Flee, then tell your story to a sympathetic media.
F: Grab the guy's finger, stuff it in your mouth and bite through flesh, cartilage and/or bone hard enough to sever it completely, spit it to the curb, go back and confess to your fellow protesters, then flee the scene.

I see it as a hot-head vs. a maniac. The hot-head was wrong to throw a punch, but the maniac was unbelievably psychotic.

655 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:10:28am

re: #644 Danny

Damn. Glad I don't live where you do.

I take karate at a local school. The instructor there always talks about how to handle a situation in the best way possible to prevent getting arrested.

re: #650 JamesTKirk

I apologize. The original comment just said "in the eyes of the law" without specifying jurisdiction. I have no idea what California considers legal or reasonable sometimes.

You're right; I over-generalized. My apologies. It's just that in most of the places I've been, it holds true. I don't know about the laws in some of the more conservative areas of the country.

656 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:10:38am

re: #645 MandyManners

Someone who calls me that "c" word,...

I promise never to call you Canadian.

657 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:10:40am

I don't know what folks are arguing about on this one.

It is a clear case of moronic convergence. Trying to split hairs about degrees of culpability is beyond me. The fact that one guy went Mike Tyson on the other guy's finger simply underscores the banality.

658 wahabicorridor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:10:40am

re: #642 buzzsawmonkey

I have no idea; I'd not heard it before last night.

I just like the idea of flogging TVP--usually, of course, considered meat's poor cousin--as a "Biofuel Burger™." It seems like a way to cash in on the zeitgeist.

You are too funny...

659 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:10:41am

re: #637 Charles

There is no "fighting words" excuse in California. If you throw the first punch, you are legally the aggressor. Period.

Assault and battery is the combination of two violent crimes: assault (the threat of violence) and battery (physical violence). This legal distinction exists only in jurisdictions that distinguish assault as threatened violence rather than actual violence.

660 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:10:41am

re: #625 lawhawk

Sorta...closing the straits is not launching an attack...it's causing one to be launched.

661 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:11:05am

re: #649 MandyManners

Only if I point.

You'll need both hands to point with, baby.

662 marge45b  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:11:11am

On Rush's show today Mark Steyn is guest host. A caller (Anti-HC) who was at the Thousand Oaks Pro Demonstration actually drove the bit off pinky to the hospital and was re-united with its owner!

663 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:11:15am

re: #605 Kenneth

It's the same Van Jones. It is well known he once headed the openly Marxists organization STORM. The quotation is not really a troofer talking point, but it was early days after 9-11 & the troofer thing had not yet gotten rolling. Was Van Jones headed in that direction?

I posted that because I googled "Van Jone"s +9-11 and that was one of the few items I found other than the recent discover that his name is on a 9-11 Truther list. As Charles prudently points out, anybody could put that name on the list. It's no proof it's the same Van Jones. And anything at a Troofer site is suspect. That said, Jones is verifiable involved in a number of flaky political causes, so trooferism is not out of the question.

This isn't some throwaway internet petition. What would happen if someone put Charles's name on that list and the troofers falsely claimed to have verified it?

664 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:11:33am

re: #623 JamesTKirk

"Fighting words"

Hasn't the USSC ruled that there *are* words hat are so bad that someone who reacts to them is more or less in the clear?

665 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:11:56am

re: #655 thedopefishlives

I will also note that, unfortunately, in some places there's a difference between between the law and what's right or wrong.

666 UFO TOFU  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:12:09am

Hiya redstate, good to see you!

667 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:12:20am

re: #662 marge45b

On Rush's show today Mark Steyn is guest host. A caller (Anti-HC) who was at the Thousand Oaks Pro Demonstration actually drove the bit off pinky to the hospital and was re-united with its owner!

Oddly enough, his last name was "Bush."

668 El fantasma de General Pinochet  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:12:23am

re: #654 NukeAtomrod


F: Grab the guy's finger, stuff it in your mouth and bite through flesh, cartilage and/or bone hard enough to sever it completely, spit it to the curb, go back and confess to your fellow protesters, then flee the scene.

I see it as a hot-head vs. a maniac. The hot-head was wrong to throw a punch, but the maniac was unbelievably psychotic.


El pensamiento del izquierdista es una psicosis en una escala total.

669 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:12:23am

re: #513 Charles

No, they haven't.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

That's an editorial. Editorials are inherently partisan. I was talking about their news coverage, about which there were several articles (in other sources) saying the Times was trying to go mainstream

670 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:12:43am

Gonna' do some searching.

671 Steve  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:12:49am

re: #645 MandyManners

Someone who calls me that "c" word,...

"Cute" ;-)

672 Dreader1962  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:12:50am

re: #654 NukeAtomrod

I'm doubtful of the reporting, but let's assume that Rice threw a punch with only verbal provocation. If you're the guy that got punched, do you:

A: Punch back.
B: Flee.
C: Flee, then call the police
D: Flee, then try to get sympathy for your fellow protesters.
E: Flee, then tell your story to a sympathetic media.
F: Grab the guy's finger, stuff it in your mouth and bite through flesh, cartilage and/or bone hard enough to sever it completely, spit it to the curb, go back and confess to your fellow protesters, then flee the scene.

I see it as a hot-head vs. a maniac. The hot-head was wrong to throw a punch, but the maniac was unbelievably psychotic.

There is no testimony that F occurred. It's possible that he had a hand in his face, with the finger pushed into his mouth. Have you ever been in a fight?

Before making up the scenario, let's get better testimony.

673 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:12:51am

re: #667 jaunte

Oddly enough, his last name was "Bush."

A finger on the hand is better than . . . oh forget it.

674 redstateredneck  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:12:54am

re: #621 zombie

Excellent eyewitness account!

Someone needs to compile these to sort it all out.


The guy who picked up the finger called in to Mark Steyn. Ewww. He carried it to the nearest hospital, where he found them working on the guy and gave them the finger. Literally.

675 wahabicorridor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:13:25am

gotta hop - later lizards

676 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:13:29am

re: #668 El fantasma de General Pinochet

...en englese, por favor.

677 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:13:30am

re: #667 jaunte

Oddly enough, his last name was "Bush."

Damn! Lost $10 betting it was Cheney..

//

678 Ojoe  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:13:32am

finger lickin' g ...

secret spices and herbs

bucket goin' round

what goes aroun' comes aroun'

better

better get a bucket

it is a - wafer thin

679 irish rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:13:32am

re: #617 Ben Hur

He "started it" because he threw a punch?

That when it "started?"


Yes.

680 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:13:46am

re: #535 Coracle

re: #521 Walter L. Newton

Who would you be defending if the roles had been reversed?

No one's defensible in this. Everyone should have stayed on his own side of the street!

681 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:13:49am

re: #665 Danny

I will also note that, unfortunately, in some places there's a difference between between the law and what's right or wrong.

That's why I said "legal or reasonable" in #650

682 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:13:50am

re: #665 Danny

I will also note that, unfortunately, in some places there's a difference between between the law and what's right or wrong.

Technically, state law here and in most places provides for self-defense of some form. Most of the time, the interpretation is left up to the local district. In more liberal places like MN or CA, someone pretty much has to be pointing a gun at your head and squeezing the trigger, or some variant thereof, before you're allowed to exercise force.

683 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:13:59am

re: #645 MandyManners

Someone who calls me that "c" word,...

Clever, upon occasion too! ;)

684 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:14:02am

Englese?

685 KenJen  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:14:12am

re: #670 MandyManners

Gonna' do some searching.

Let your fingers do the walking.

686 redstateredneck  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:14:39am

re: #666 UFO TOFU

Hiya redstate, good to see you!

Hey, {you}!

687 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:14:45am

re: #677 Diego

Damn! Lost $10 betting it was Cheney..

//

It's an understandable error:
Image: 12cheney4xx.jpg

688 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:14:53am

re: #641 unrealizedviewpoint

That sounds like CA.

Hold on there little missy...The are no fighting words in Indiana...You make a swing at a Hoosier...Somebody is going to the hospital and somebody is going to jail...If a certain old poster was here he would be talking about setting up claymore land mines and .308 sniper shots...With a clearing action at the LZ...Crap that got old every thread...
*wink*

689 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:14:56am

re: #624 Coracle

No. Apples and Hand grenades. Do you think that a war for national survival is in any way comparable to a street altercation over a policy proposal?

Technically, if you throw the punch first, you are the aggressor. But, why did this guy throw the punch in the first place? He just had a sudden urge to punch a MoveOn.org professional protester out of the blue? Why did he punch him? I can guarantee that if the roles where reversed, you would be giving the "puncher" a little slack. I don't think punching someone or biting their finger off is a good way to solve an argument either way.

690 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:15:03am

What gets me is what isn't told, which is the irony of the "protest".

We now have these "spontaneous" street corner protests in favor of Obama care orchestrated by the same people who orchestrated the "stop the killing in Afghanistan and Iraq" protests (which seem to evaporated now that Obama is at the helm).

This is astroturfing by the same people who decried the townhall screamers as astroturfers.

Like I said - moronic convergence.

691 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:15:21am

re: #680 Dianna

No one's defensible in this. Everyone should have stayed on his own side of the street!

When you're a Jet, you're a Jet all the way
from your frst cigarette to your last dyin' day...

692 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:15:28am

Chaplinsky v. State of New Hampshire, 315 U.S. 568 (1942).

693 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:15:38am

re: #653 buzzsawmonkey

I wonder what the MoveOn protester was biterly clinging to...?

His 'precious'?

694 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:16:20am

re: #688 HoosierHoops

The worst part of that is, I'm actually a Hoosier by birth. Living in a state where they won't let you swing back, well, just plain sucks. My dad always taught me to "let the guy take the first swing, then punch him right in the nose. Your hand'll hurt for a coupla days, but he'll never swing at you again."

695 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:16:24am

OK, I find it a little ironic that the guy protesting against health care reform (i.e. socialized medicine) that had to have his pinky reattached is allegedly on Medicare.

696 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:16:36am

re: #687 jaunte

It's an understandable error:
[Link: boingboing.net...]

LOL! You just made me snort through my nose. I've NEVER snorted through my nose! (well, not in a laugh anyways.. ;)

697 Baier  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:16:43am

re: #673 Creeping Eruption

If you can't eat em, join em.

698 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:16:49am

re: #557 Charles

Good grief.

Um...a quibble. The writer says the bitee said that. It's not a direct quote.

699 Dreader1962  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:16:53am

re: #682 thedopefishlives

Technically, state law here and in most places provides for self-defense of some form. Most of the time, the interpretation is left up to the local district. In more liberal places like MN or CA, someone pretty much has to be pointing a gun at your head and squeezing the trigger, or some variant thereof, before you're allowed to exercise force.

Normal self-defense laws require more elements than responding to a threatened act. If the opportunity to flee is present and not taken, the person who strikes first is in the wrong in most cases.

700 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:17:06am

re: #692 MandyManners

Chaplinsky v. State of New Hampshire, 315 U.S. 568 (1942).

[Link: caselaw.lp.findlaw.com...]

701 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:17:21am

So, if you tease a dog...egg him on...pull his tail...yell at him...and then he bites you...it's the dog's fault? Wow, I will have to remember this. I can start inciting all I want because it will not be my fault at all!

702 El fantasma de General Pinochet  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:17:32am

re: #676 Noam Sayin'

...en englese, por favor.

No hablo inglés, sino que puedo leerlo.
Babelfish es su amigo.

703 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:17:57am

re: #517 Shiplord Kirel

Our problem at this point is that a raving loon, Glenn Beck, has positioned himself as Jones's leading public critic, undermining the credibility of everything we find about Jones and his shady past.

Oh dear. I did not know that Glenn Beck was criticizing Van Jones. I've never seen Beck's show and pay as little attention to him as possible.

I agree that Beck's presence in the discussion presents a problem. And I have no idea what Beck has said about Jones. All I know is that from my personal experience and observations, Van Jones is an extremist, racialist nutball of the highest order, who recently has tried (quite successfully) to rebrand himself as a member of the green movement.

If Glenn Beck knew 5% of what I know about Van Jones, his head would probably explode.

704 BlueCanuck  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:18:11am

re: #695 Gus 802

OK, I find it a little ironic that the guy protesting against health care reform (i.e. socialized medicine) that had to have his pinky reattached is allegedly on Medicare.

Why do you think he's protesting? Personal experience is a great teacher...

705 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:18:26am

I want to clarify something -- I am NOT a fan of Van Jones. However, what Glenn Beck has been doing on his show is simply disgusting. He's taken all kinds of facts and statements out of context, and IGNORED anything that goes against his premise. He's promoting a false, insanely biased view of the guy.

Van Jones is undoubtedly a leftist. But rather than deal with him on the issues, what the Beck crowd is doing is distorting and misrepresenting the truth, in what amounts to pure character assassination.

I cannot support that kind of crap, and I never will.

706 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:18:26am

re: #702 El fantasma de General Pinochet

So is the scroll wheel.

707 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:18:33am

re: #699 Dreader1962

Normal self-defense laws require more elements than responding to a threatened act. If the opportunity to flee is present and not taken, the person who strikes first is in the wrong in most cases.

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

708 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:18:44am

re: #701 Desert Dog

Actually, yes. This 12 year old kid was kicking my dog in the head and so he bit him. We had to go to court to stop him from being put down.

709 Dreader1962  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:18:54am

re: #702 El fantasma de General Pinochet

No hablo inglés, sino que puedo leerlo.
Babelfish es su amigo.

Then could you put your posts through Babelfish before posting?

Otherwise most people won't bother translating.

710 Onslow  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:18:56am

Crusaders Don Spandex in the Name of Healthcare

711 redstateredneck  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:18:59am

re: #695 Gus 802

OK, I find it a little ironic that the guy protesting against health care reform (i.e. socialized medicine) that had to have his pinky reattached is allegedly on Medicare.

He's probably on disability.

712 subsailor68  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:19:00am

re: #702 El fantasma de General Pinochet

No hablo inglés, sino que puedo leerlo.
Babelfish es su amigo.


Hmmm...I must have pressed 2 by mistake.

713 irish rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:19:17am

re: #581 Charles

And you don't physically assault someone just because you're involved in a verbal altercation. I'm amazed that there are people who seem to think that was an appropriate reaction.

But I suspect that you know the reason why it's being defended.

714 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:19:22am

re: #522 Gus 802

Seriously? It's been Glenn Beck vs. Van Jones for the past few weeks. Well, Glenn Beck is doing all the talking screaming.

Dang, I am completely out of the loop when it comes to popular culture. I had no clue.

715 redstateredneck  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:19:59am

re: #711 redstateredneck

He's probably on disability.

Ignore that post. I'm confusing myself!

716 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:20:15am

re: #710 Onslow

Crusaders Don Spandex in the Name of Healthcare

Moose-knuckles for Change!

717 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:20:39am

re: #689 Desert Dog

Technically, if you throw the punch first, you are the aggressor. But, why did this guy throw the punch in the first place? He just had a sudden urge to punch a MoveOn.org professional protester out of the blue? Why did he punch him? I can guarantee that if the roles where reversed, you would be giving the "puncher" a little slack. I don't think punching someone or biting their finger off is a good way to solve an argument either way.

The first sentence, yes. If the roles were reversed, I'd cut no one any slack. Throwing the first punch in a verbal argument makes you wrong, no matter how righteous the argument is. If you truly believe your life and limb was in danger, then you take responsibility for it and face whatever consequences it entails, whether it be assault charges or a bitten finger. One thing for the bitten guy is he admitted he threw the punch and we haven't him whining in any of the coverage yet, which speaks well for him.

718 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:20:39am

re: #695 Gus 802

OK, I find it a little ironic that the guy protesting against health care reform (i.e. socialized medicine) that had to have his pinky reattached is allegedly on Medicare.

Why is that ironic? If this was 10 years from now and Obamacare is in full bloom, he would probably bleed to death in the waiting room holding a #192 ticket in his hand while the loudspeaker is announcing "Now servicing #12".

Or, since he is older, they may just drug him up and park him in the corner a la the NHS in the UK and let nature take it's course.

This debate is not about Medicare as much as it is about putting everyone on Medicare.

719 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:20:46am

re: #715 redstateredneck

Ignore that post. I'm confusing myself!

Yeah. He's 65 so he should qualify for Medicare.

720 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:20:52am

re: #531 MJ

Count two of us. i wasn't aware that beck is on Jones.
However, that in of itself does not mean that Jones shouldn't be examined.

At least there's two of us in "Out-of-It-Land". That's a relief!

721 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:20:53am

O.K. Here's California's Assault & Battery law.

California law defines assault (sometimes referred to as an "assault and battery") in section 240 of the California Penal Code. An "assault" is an unlawful attempt, coupled with a present ability, to commit a violent injury on another. Simply put, it means performing an act that is likely to result in the application of force to another.

There is no requirement that an assault must actually result in a violent or forceful act upon another, only that you (1) attempted to, and (2) had the ability to do so.

California "simple assault" is a misdemeanor and is typically charged when the accuser didn't suffer any type of significant injury as a result of the offense. A California "aggravated assault" (otherwise known as an "assault with a deadly weapon" or an ADW) will be filed if (1) you used a deadly weapon or other instrument capable of producing serious bodily injury, and/or (2) when the accuser is seriously injured.

*This article primarily focuses on the issues involved with a California "simple assault".

What is the Difference between "Assault" and "Battery"?

Although many people think that "assault and battery" is one crime, "assault" (CPC 240) and "battery" (CPC 242) are actually two different offenses. As Robert Little, one of San Bernardino's top assault defense attorneys puts it, "The easiest way to distinguish the crimes is this.an assault doesn't necessarily involve any actual physical contact -- a battery does. Put another way, an 'assault' is an 'attempted battery', and a 'battery' is a 'completed assault'".

How Do Prosecutors Prove a California "Simple Assault" Under Penal Code 240?

In order to convict you of "simple" or "misdemeanor" assault in California, the prosecuting agency must prove the following three facts (otherwise known as "elements"):

It does require, at minimum, an attempt at physical violence to constitute assault. A successful attempt (actual physical contact) is battery.

722 NukeAtomrod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:20:57am

re: #668 El fantasma de General Pinochet

El pensamiento del izquierdista es una psicosis en una escala total.

The thought of the leftist is a psychosis in a total scale.

I love my babelfish!

723 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:21:13am

re: #700 MandyManners

[Link: caselaw.lp.findlaw.com...]

and the insulting or 'fighting' words-those which by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace. 4 It has been well observed that such utterances are no essential part of any exposition of ideas, and are of such slight social value as a step to truth that any benefit that may be derived from them is clearly outweighed by the social interest in order and morality. 5 'Resort to epithets or personal abuse is not in any proper sense communication of information or opinion safeguarded by the Constitution, and its punishment as a criminal act would raise no question under that instrument.' Cantwell v. Connecticut, 310 U.S. 296, 309 , 310 S., 60 S.Ct. 900, 906, 128 A.L.R. 1352.

724 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:21:27am

Well, on reflection, I would say that the loony biter really deserves a break.

725 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:21:44am

Turns out that California law has a basis for a "fighting words" defense -

[Link: law.onecle.com...]

Any of the following persons shall be punished by imprisonment
in the county jail for a period of not more than 90 days, a fine of
not more than four hundred dollars ($400), or both such imprisonment
and fine:
(1) Any person who unlawfully fights in a public place or
challenges another person in a public place to fight.
(2) Any person who maliciously and willfully disturbs another
person by loud and unreasonable noise.
(3) Any person who uses offensive words in a public place which
are inherently likely to provoke an immediate violent reaction.

726 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:21:44am

'The word 'offensive' is not to be defined in terms of what a particular addressee thinks. ... The test is what men of common intelligence would understand would be words likely to cause an average addressee to fight. ... The English language has a number of words and expressions which by general consent and 'fighting words' when said without a disarming smile. ... Such words, as ordinary men know, are likely to cause a fight. So are threatening, profane or obscene revilings. Derisive and annoying words can be taken as coming within the purview of the statute as heretofore interpreted only when they have this characteristic of plainly tending to excite the addressee to a breach of the peace. ... The statute, as construed, does no more than prohibit the face-to-face words plainly likely to cause a breach of the peace by the addressee, words whose speaking constitute a breach of the peace by the speaker-including 'classical fighting words', words in current use less 'classical' but equally likely to cause violence, and other disorderly words, including profanity, obscenity and threats.'

We are unable to say that the limited scope of the statute as thus construed contravenes the constitutional right of free expression.

727 Dreader1962  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:22:04am

re: #717 Coracle

The first sentence, yes. If the roles were reversed, I'd cut no one any slack. Throwing the first punch in a verbal argument makes you wrong, no matter how righteous the argument is. If you truly believe your life and limb was in danger, then you take responsibility for it and face whatever consequences it entails, whether it be assault charges or a bitten finger. One thing for the bitten guy is he admitted he threw the punch and we haven't him whining in any of the coverage yet, which speaks well for him.

Do you agree that the other person hiding out does not speak well for him?

728 oh_dude  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:22:05am

Dumb question, but can someone tell me where I can find documentation (U.S. Constitution, etc.) that authorizes the Federal government to manage health care? Education?

Just curious.

729 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:22:12am


US Cuts Off Aid To Honduras

The Obama administration on Thursday cut all non-humanitarian aid to Honduras over the ouster of President Manuel Zelaya, making permanent a temporary suspension of U.S. aid imposed after he was deposed in June. The State Department made the announcement as Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton was meeting with Zelaya. Spokesman Ian Kelly did not say how much assistance would be cut but officials have said previously that more than $200 million is at stake. Kelly said it affected "a broad range of assistance to the government of Honduras."

"The Secretary of State has made the decision, consistent with U.S. legislation, recognizing the need for strong measures in light of the continued resistance to the adoption of the San Jose Accord by the de facto regime and continuing failure to restore democratic, constitutional rule to Honduras," Kelly said in a statement. The San Jose accord, brokered by Costa Rican President Oscar Arias, aims to return Zelaya to power with limited authority until elections now set for November. But Zelaya's replacement, Roberto Micheletti, has refused to accept it.

730 redstateredneck  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:22:52am

re: #719 Gus 802

Yeah. He's 65 so he should qualify for Medicare.

That's what happens when I'm trying to read, answer phones, and listen to Mark Steyn all at the same time. Something is going to suffer.

731 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:23:17am

re: #729 HelloDare


US Cuts Off Aid To Honduras

The Obama administration on Thursday cut all non-humanitarian aid to Honduras over the ouster of President Manuel Zelaya, making permanent a temporary suspension of U.S. aid imposed after he was deposed in June. The State Department made the announcement as Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton was meeting with Zelaya. Spokesman Ian Kelly did not say how much assistance would be cut but officials have said previously that more than $200 million is at stake. Kelly said it affected "a broad range of assistance to the government of Honduras."

"The Secretary of State has made the decision, consistent with U.S. legislation, recognizing the need for strong measures in light of the continued resistance to the adoption of the San Jose Accord by the de facto regime and continuing failure to restore democratic, constitutional rule to Honduras," Kelly said in a statement. The San Jose accord, brokered by Costa Rican President Oscar Arias, aims to return Zelaya to power with limited authority until elections now set for November. But Zelaya's replacement, Roberto Micheletti, has refused to accept it.

It will go to the People's Democratic Republic of Palestine.

732 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:23:21am

re: #703 zombie

Oh dear. I did not know that Glenn Beck was criticizing Van Jones. I've never seen Beck's show and pay as little attention to him as possible.

I agree that Beck's presence in the discussion presents a problem. And I have no idea what Beck has said about Jones. All I know is that from my personal experience and observations, Van Jones is an extremist, racialist nutball of the highest order, who recently has tried (quite successfully) to rebrand himself as a member of the green movement.

If Glenn Beck knew 5% of what I know about Van Jones, his head would probably explode.

Beck is way past the exploding head stage. During his Rockefeller art rant, he actually seemed to suggest that the 70 year old image of a boy drawing "Mussolini's chariot" was a sub-rosa endorsement of Obama's attempts to subvert youth and put them in charge, or something to that effect.

733 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:23:21am

re: #522 Gus 802

Seriously? It's been Glenn Beck vs. Van Jones for the past few weeks. Well, Glenn Beck is doing all the talking screaming stalking.

Beck didn't give a hoot about him until Color Of Change started it's protest of Beck calling Obama a 'racist' who 'hates white people..white culture..'

734 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:23:23am

re: #723 MandyManners

and the insulting or 'fighting' words-those which by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace. 4 It has been well observed that such utterances are no essential part of any exposition of ideas, and are of such slight social value as a step to truth that any benefit that may be derived from them is clearly outweighed by the social interest in order and morality. 5 'Resort to epithets or personal abuse is not in any proper sense communication of information or opinion safeguarded by the Constitution, and its punishment as a criminal act would raise no question under that instrument.' Cantwell v. Connecticut, 310 U.S. 296, 309 , 310 S., 60 S.Ct. 900, 906, 128 A.L.R. 1352.

Mandy, stop quoting law, it doesn't hold any water with progressives.

735 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:23:26am

re: #720 zombie

At least there's two of us in "Out-of-It-Land". That's a relief!

Three. I don't watch TV.

736 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:23:27am

re: #664 MandyManners

Hasn't the USSC ruled that there *are* words hat are so bad that someone who reacts to them is more or less in the clear?

Simple Assault
Sort of generic (not associated with any particular state).

Elements

Generally, the essential elements of assault consist of an act intended to cause an apprehension of harmful or offensive contact that causes apprehension of such contact in the victim.

The act required for an assault must be overt. Although words alone are insufficient, they might create an assault when coupled with some action that indicates the ability to carry out the threat. A mere threat to harm is not an assault; however, a threat combined with a raised fist might be sufficient if it causes a reasonable apprehension of harm in the victim.

Intent is an essential element of assault. In tort law, it can be specific intent—if the assailant intends to cause the apprehension of harmful or offensive contact in the victim—or general intent—if he or she intends to do the act that causes such apprehension. In addition, the intent element is satisfied if it is substantially certain, to a reasonable person, that the act will cause the result. A defendant who holds a gun to a victim's head possesses the requisite intent, since it is substantially certain that this act will produce an apprehension in the victim. In all cases, intent to kill or harm is irrelevant.

In criminal law, the attempted battery type of assault requires a Specific Intent to commit battery. An intent to frighten will not suffice for this form of assault.

There can be no assault if the act does not produce a true apprehension of harm in the victim. There must be a reasonable fear of injury. The usual test applied is whether the act would induce such apprehension in the mind of a reasonable person. The status of the victim is taken into account. A threat made to a child might be sufficient to constitute an assault, while an identical threat made to an adult might not.

Virtually all jurisdictions agree that the victim must be aware of the danger. This element is not required, however, for the attempted battery type of assault. A defendant who throws a rock at a sleeping victim can only be guilty of the attempted battery assault, since the victim would not be aware of the possible harm.

737 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:23:53am

re: #729 HelloDare


US Cuts Off Aid To Honduras

The Obama administration on Thursday cut all non-humanitarian aid to Honduras over the ouster of President Manuel Zelaya, making permanent a temporary suspension of U.S. aid imposed after he was deposed in June. The State Department made the announcement as Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton was meeting with Zelaya. Spokesman Ian Kelly did not say how much assistance would be cut but officials have said previously that more than $200 million is at stake. Kelly said it affected "a broad range of assistance to the government of Honduras."

"The Secretary of State has made the decision, consistent with U.S. legislation, recognizing the need for strong measures in light of the continued resistance to the adoption of the San Jose Accord by the de facto regime and continuing failure to restore democratic, constitutional rule to Honduras," Kelly said in a statement. The San Jose accord, brokered by Costa Rican President Oscar Arias, aims to return Zelaya to power with limited authority until elections now set for November. But Zelaya's replacement, Roberto Micheletti, has refused to accept it.

Well, shit.

738 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:24:06am

re: #716 Ben Hur

Moose-knuckles for Change!

Stop the Camel Toe Communists!

739 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:24:11am

re: #695 Gus 802

OK, I find it a little ironic that the guy protesting against health care reform (i.e. socialized medicine) that had to have his pinky reattached is allegedly on Medicare.

These folks are quite aware that $500 Billion of their medicare dollars have been targeted for redistribution to the young & healthy, that ObamaCare mandates be covered. They're not really opposed to ObamaCare, they're opposed to the cuts.
/I try to be honest

740 Dreader1962  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:24:21am

re: #721 eschew_obfuscation

O.K. Here's California's Assault & Battery law.

It does require, at minimum, an attempt at physical violence to constitute assault. A successful attempt (actual physical contact) is battery.

And I had to explain this to a campus cop once when I was trying to make a report on an assault. He still didn't get it.

741 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:24:23am
742 Dotcoman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:24:27am

Charles's thread opening article might be wrong about one thing.

Mark Stein filling in for Rush Limbaugh had a caller named Scott (I think) who claimed to have witnessed the entire event, and that he found the finger about 10 feet away from the scuffle and that he wrapped it up and took it to the hospital where they where treating the elderly gentleman.

He also said that the Moonbat came over and seemed to purposefully target the old man. Some are trying to spin it that the Moonbat was trying to walk through a crowd of protesters to get over to the supporters. Seems to turn out that he actually left the supporter crowd and walked over to the small protester group.

One female MoveOn.org blogger has a picture of the small protest group from the MoveOn side of the street.

That I got from newsbusters.

Just saying.

743 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:24:33am

re: #738 CyanSnowHawk

Stop the Camel Toe Communists!

Camel Toe Jockey?

744 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:24:36am

re: #726 MandyManners

There is no "fighting words" excuse in California. You're quoting Connecticut law.

745 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:25:09am

re: #708 Diego

Actually, yes. This 12 year old kid was kicking my dog in the head and so he bit him. We had to go to court to stop him from being put down.

We had to put down one of our dogs when she bite a neighbor kid. She just had puppies and was protective. We told him not to touch the puppies just yet. He went back there and did anyway. We had to put Honey down. Who's fault was it? The law said it was my father's fault and our dog's fault. But, who's fault was it really?

746 Mad Mullah  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:25:12am

re: #457 Charles

If Van Jones is really a sekrit commie, don't you think it's a little odd that he would write a book promoting "eco-capitalism?"

Some of those statements that people are digging up about Van Jones are not statements that he made in his youth, they're statements that were made just months ago or last year.

"Eco-Capitalism" is simply a ploy, a small stepping stone towards the greater goal of "transforming the whole society" and complete revolution. I don't think that he's so "sekrit" about being a radical progressive commie or whatever one chooses to call him.

‘GREEN JOBS’ GOAL IS ‘COMPLETE REVOLUTION’ AWAY FROM ‘GRAY CAPITALISM’ - Here is the video where he says what the goal of "green jobs" is.

[Link: www.breitbart.tv...]

Van Jones is as much of a capitalist as some of those human rights groups are really for human rights, which is to say not much at all. In addition to being a radical "progressive", he also indulges in ignorant race theories and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was a truther, because he fits the profile wonderfully. I do agree that greater proof should be provided besides his name on a list.

747 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:25:28am

re: #549 avanti

Yep, he said that he went that far left for a time before moving back to just very liberal as he got older and wiser.

Yeah, right. And I've got a bridge for sale you might be interested in...

Behind closed doors at these places, you would not believe the kind of stuff that gets said -- by Van Jones and others. I'd believe, because I've been there and heard it.

(And by "these places," I mean Oakland-based "community organizing" groups.)

748 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:25:49am

re: #736 reine.de.tout

I linked to the Chaplinsky decision above and quoted the relevant words.

749 scogind  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:25:50am

re: #380 Charles

Sigh.

The "poison" allegation is another one that's being distorted beyond belief.

This video is a short clip completely out of context (probably deliberately), but it's clear that Van Jones was saying the regulations were biased against black communities, resulting in more pollution being diverted into black communities. I have no idea if this is true or not, but it's pretty damned clear he wasn't saying "white people are poisoning black people."


[Video]

White people are not actually poisoning the black people, according to Jones, we are diverting the pollution into the black neighborhoods. Which is another way of saying, white people are poisoning black people.

750 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:25:53am

Will the one's new campaign slogan be "Yes We Can-nibal"?

751 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:26:10am

re: #718 Desert Dog

Why is that ironic? If this was 10 years from now and Obamacare is in full bloom, he would probably bleed to death in the waiting room holding a #192 ticket in his hand while the loudspeaker is announcing "Now servicing #12".

Or, since he is older, they may just drug him up and park him in the corner a la the NHS in the UK and let nature take it's course.

This debate is not about Medicare as much as it is about putting everyone on Medicare.

The irony is in the historical context and opposition to Medicare before it's signing by LBJ. The irony is also the context of the rhetoric we see today and what was said in the past:

Ronald Reagan: “[I]f you don’t [stop Medicare] and I don’t do it, one of these days you and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it once was like in America when men were free.” [1961]

George H.W. Bush: Described Medicare in 1964 as “socialized medicine.” [1964]

Barry Goldwater: “Having given our pensioners their medical care in kind, why not food baskets, why not public housing accommodations, why not vacation resorts, why not a ration of cigarettes for those who smoke and of beer for those who drink.” [1964]

Bob Dole: In 1996, while running for the presidency, Dole stated that he was one of 12 House members who voted against creating Medicare in 1965. “I was there, fighting the fight, voting against Medicare ... because we knew it wouldn’t work in 1965.”

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

752 redstateredneck  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:26:38am

re: #736 reine.de.tout

Hell, Fran, if this had happened in Louisiana the old man could have shot and killed him if he had felt that his life was threatened.

753 irish rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:26:48am

re: #725 karmic_inquisitor

Turns out that California law has a basis for a "fighting words" defense -

[Link: law.onecle.com...]

Guess we'll have to leave it up to the judge to determine intent.

Lesson learned: act like an adult instead of a child and you won't have to pay fines, do jail time or lose body parts.

754 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:26:51am

re: #694 thedopefishlives

The worst part of that is, I'm actually a Hoosier by birth. Living in a state where they won't let you swing back, well, just plain sucks. My dad always taught me to "let the guy take the first swing, then punch him right in the nose. Your hand'll hurt for a coupla days, but he'll never swing at you again."

I think the last real fight I've gotten in was in 9th grade..Me and some buddies went to a football game to kick some high school ass..
It did not turn out well..
There have been a few times in bars..but just words...Even in sports we pushed and shoved during the most emotion you can even imagine or feel..
I forgot about the 9th grade fight...How embarrassing

755 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:26:56am

re: #751 Gus 802

Its that is. Damn apostrophe habit.

756 MJ  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:27:03am

re: #720 zombie

At least there's two of us in "Out-of-It-Land". That's a relief!

Never watch Beck. He's a lunatic and besides, I'm almost always too busy at that time of the day to watch any TV.

I don't know what Beck has been saying and, I assume, distorting...all of which makes it all the more important that responsible people do look at Jones' past record.

757 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:27:05am

re: #744 Charles

There is no "fighting words" excuse in California. You're quoting Connecticut law.

I thought that the USSC opinions were applicable to all states.

758 SixDegrees  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:27:14am

re: #641 unrealizedviewpoint

That sounds like CA.

Uh - that sounds reasonable, actually. No matter what verbal dreck someone throws at you, it's no excuse to respond with physical violence. Period.

759 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:27:14am

re: #702 El fantasma de General Pinochet

No hablo inglés, sino que puedo leerlo.
Babelfish es su amigo.

תנשק לי בצד שני

760 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:27:46am

Time Mag online refers to the bitter as "the attacker" in this short news item.

And apparently the bitee has not been arrested, so I think that we can't say who started it at this point.

761 CommonCents  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:28:10am

re: #721 eschew_obfuscation

O.K. Here's California's Assault & Battery law.


It does require, at minimum, an attempt at physical violence to constitute assault. A successful attempt (actual physical contact) is battery.

So the moveon.org agitator can approach the senior citizen and say "I'm going to kick your ass old man" at which point the other guy pops him in the nose. Is assault something you can respond to with battery or does he have to wait for the battery to happen to himself.

762 Dotcoman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:28:14am

re: #703 zombie

Oh dear. I did not know that Glenn Beck was criticizing Van Jones. I've never seen Beck's show and pay as little attention to him as possible.

I agree that Beck's presence in the discussion presents a problem. And I have no idea what Beck has said about Jones. All I know is that from my personal experience and observations, Van Jones is an extremist, racialist nutball of the highest order, who recently has tried (quite successfully) to rebrand himself as a member of the green movement.

If Glenn Beck knew 5% of what I know about Van Jones, his head would probably explode.

A Lot of former Marxist "community Organizers" seem to have found cushy Admin jobs in the Green movement, after the Soviet revolution money dried up down south back in the '90's

Zombie, set that charge and blow away!

763 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:28:14am

re: #728 oh_dude

Dumb question, but can someone tell me where I can find documentation (U.S. Constitution, etc.) that authorizes the Federal government to manage health care? Education?

Just curious.

The justification most often given is Article 1, Sec. 8, Clause 18, which is the catchall provision allowing the Congress ..."to make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."

Sec. 8 provides enumerated powers of Congress - to raise navies and make national defense, and regulate commerce, etc. Since commerce can be defined to include health and education, that's your justification.

I'm not saying it's right, but that's where proponents can make the claim.

Note also Art. 1. Sec. 8. Cl. 1 - which specifically gives Congress the right to lay taxes - something that the anti-taxers routinely claim is a right that they don't have (when talking about income taxes).

764 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:28:17am

re: #739 unrealizedviewpoint

These folks are quite aware that $500 Billion of their medicare dollars have been targeted for redistribution to the young & healthy, that ObamaCare mandates be covered. They're not really opposed to ObamaCare, they're opposed to the cuts.
/I try to be honest

This is another case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't". The GOP has been calling for cleaning up the waste and abuse in Medicare for years and when someone says they're going to do it then attack them. It's already been stated time and again that the cuts will NOT be from services.

765 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:28:19am

re: #728 oh_dude

Dumb question, but can someone tell me where I can find documentation (U.S. Constitution, etc.) that authorizes the Federal government to manage health care? Education?

Just curious.

Commerce clause?
That seems to be the catch-all.

766 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:28:37am

re: #723 MandyManners

and the insulting or 'fighting' words-those which by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace. 4 It has been well observed that such utterances are no essential part of any exposition of ideas, and are of such slight social value as a step to truth that any benefit that may be derived from them is clearly outweighed by the social interest in order and morality. 5 'Resort to epithets or personal abuse is not in any proper sense communication of information or opinion safeguarded by the Constitution, and its punishment as a criminal act would raise no question under that instrument.' Cantwell v. Connecticut, 310 U.S. 296, 309 , 310 S., 60 S.Ct. 900, 906, 128 A.L.R. 1352.

In recent years, however, Chaplinsky's "fighting words" doctrine has become "very limited." Sandul v. Larion, 119 F.3d 1250, 1255 (6th Cir.1997)

767 NukeAtomrod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:28:38am

re: #672 Dreader1962

There is no testimony that F occurred. It's possible that he had a hand in his face, with the finger pushed into his mouth. Have you ever been in a fight?

Before making up the scenario, let's get better testimony.

It isn't easy to bite off a finger. Maybe Rice shoved his pinky at him and it accidentally went into his mouth, but the biting was almost certainly deliberate.

But, I agree that we are all jumping to conclusions. None of us were there or can tell which eye-witnesses are credible. All we really know is two guys got into a fight and one ended up with a severed finger. Maybe we'll learn more later... more likely, both sides will insist the story that they want to believe is the correct one.

768 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:28:40am

re: #744 Charles

No. 725 has a link to a defense based on "fighting words" in California.

769 JohnnyReb  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:28:41am

re: #745 Desert Dog

We had to put down one of our dogs when she bite a neighbor kid. She just had puppies and was protective. We told him not to touch the puppies just yet. He went back there and did anyway. We had to put Honey down. Who's fault was it? The law said it was my father's fault and our dog's fault. But, who's fault was it really?

One of my friends almost had that happen to their dog. Seems the neighbor kids had been teasing the dog for a long period of time and one of them finally got bit. The dog got saved because one of the older kids told the cops the truth about what had been happening.

770 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:29:15am

re: #729 HelloDare


US Cuts Off Aid To Honduras

Obama vs. Honduran Democracy

"If the Obama administration were a flotilla of ships, it might be sending out an SOS right about now. ObamaCare has hit the political equivalent of an iceberg. And last week the president’s international prestige was broadsided by the Scots, who set free the Lockerbie bomber without the least consideration of American concerns. Mr. Obama’s campaign promise of restoring common sense to budget management is sleeping with the fishes."

771 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:29:28am

re: #752 redstateredneck

Good afternoon, RedState!
I'm sure you intended to address "reine" in that post,eh?
LOLOLOLOL!
Where is your mind today?

772 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:29:35am

If the crazed biter was playing a guitar at the time, and chose to bite off the victim's pinky instead of another digit, then he was probably finger-picking.

773 Flyovercountry  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:29:47am

re: #705 Charles

I want to clarify something -- I am NOT a fan of Van Jones. However, what Glenn Beck has been doing on his show is simply disgusting. He's taken all kinds of facts and statements out of context, and IGNORED anything that goes against his premise. He's promoting a false, insanely biased view of the guy.

Van Jones is undoubtedly a leftist. But rather than deal with him on the issues, what the Beck crowd is doing is distorting and misrepresenting the truth, in what amounts to pure character assassination.

I cannot support that kind of crap, and I never will.

To take it a step further, if I may, it is also detrimental to those arguments on the issues for people on the same side of the political spectrum. Rather than having people focus on well reasoned substantive issues, they are focusing on this sensationalist crap. The GOP could have easily won the previous two elections by continuing to profer well reasoned ideas and sticking to their core principles. Instead, they turned to a regimen of pandering to populist notions which they thought were popular, and scare tactics. The last two shelackings were well deserved. More will follow if they don't clean up their act.

774 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:29:48am

re: #766 Creeping Eruption

In recent years, however, Chaplinsky's "fighting words" doctrine has become "very limited." Sandul v. Larion, 119 F.3d 1250, 1255 (6th Cir.1997)

The 6th Cir. only?

775 Dreader1962  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:30:02am

re: #752 redstateredneck

Hell, Fran, if this had happened in Louisiana the old man could have shot and killed him if he had felt that his life was threatened.

He would have to demonstrate more than his 'feelings' of the threat. States vary on this, but I think it's dangerous to set up the premise in people's minds that they can shoot someone who yells at them in a heated argument.

776 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:30:26am

re: #751 Gus 802

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Some of the dimmer protesters are thinking their Medicare is going to be taken away with this bill. Some are even unaware that Medicare is already a form of socialized medicine. But, this debate is not about Medicare, it's about putting the rest of us on a similar plan...if we like it or not.

777 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:30:28am

re: #741 MikeySDCA

This was not cannibalism [Link: www.merriam-webster.com...] it was mayhem [Link: education.yahoo.com...]

Nor was it a boating accident.

778 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:30:31am

re: #772 Spare O'Lake

If the crazed biter was playing a guitar at the time, and chose to bite off the victim's pinky instead of another digit, then he was probably finger-picking.

Way to slide into a guitar pun!

779 redstateredneck  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:30:32am

re: #771 reine.de.tout

Good afternoon, RedState!
I'm sure you intended to address "reine" in that post,eh?
LOLOLOLOL!
Where is your mind today?

uh-oh...security breach!

780 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:30:48am

re: #759 Alouette

תנשק לי בצד שני

Your foreign language trumps his foreign language.

781 Buck  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:31:12am

Beck and Van Jones...

Beck is simply BALANCE. While the rest of the media ignore what VAN JONES is, Beck has to be even more unhinged.

Any reporting on Van Jones past on CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC???

None?

Balance...

782 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:31:19am

re: #725 karmic_inquisitor

Turns out that California law has a basis for a "fighting words" defense -

[Link: law.onecle.com...]

That regulation says that using offensive words in a public place may result in being arrested.

It does NOT say that using offensive words in a public place is justification for being punched in the face.

783 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:31:22am

re: #744 Charles

There is no "fighting words" excuse in California. You're quoting Connecticut law.

More to the point, is there a "punch in the face" excuse in California for biting off someone's finger?

784 El fantasma de General Pinochet  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:31:29am

re: #759 Alouette

תנשק לי בצד שני


No hablo hebreo. Pero quiero agradecer a los Israelíes por los rifles de asalto maravillosos "Galil" que vendieron al ejército chileno.

785 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:31:35am

re: #757 MandyManners

I thought that the USSC opinions were applicable to all states.

I can't find any reference that says it doesn't. What I have found is one case where the courts decided that the certain case was not valid under the "fighting words" law.

786 CommonCents  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:31:52am

re: #776 Desert Dog

Some of the dimmer protesters are thinking their Medicare is going to be taken away with this bill. Some are even unaware that Medicare is already a form of socialized medicine. But, this debate is not about Medicare, it's about putting the rest of us on a similar plan...if we like it or not.

It's about paying for everyone to have Medicare-light by reducing the benefits in today's Medicare. That statement has been made by many, left and right.

787 SixDegrees  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:31:59am

re: #728 oh_dude

Dumb question, but can someone tell me where I can find documentation (U.S. Constitution, etc.) that authorizes the Federal government to manage health care? Education?

Just curious.

No "authorization" is required. Congress is free to make whatever laws it likes. If those laws don't run afoul of the specific constraints imposed by the Constitution, they stand. There's no need for any specific Constitutional "authorization".

788 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:32:18am

re: #784 El fantasma de General Pinochet

No hablo hebreo. Pero quiero agradecer a los Israelíes por los rifles de asalto maravillosos "Galil" que vendieron al ejército chileno.

To heavy. Jam. But they look cool.

789 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:32:25am

I don't know about "fighting words", but I suspect that if an enraged man comes running towards you yelling, you may have a right to smack him if you feel that he is in the process of attacking you.

I don't know for sure, but it seems reasonable to me.

790 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:32:25am

re: #779 redstateredneck

uh-oh...security breach!

Actually, I was trying to find the Louisiana law or definition of "assault", but couldn't. I could if I looked harder, I suppose, but I don't feel like it right now.

791 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:32:50am

re: #781 Buck

Beck and Van Jones...

Beck is simply BALANCE UNBALANCED. While the rest of the media ignore what VAN JONES is, Beck has to be even more unhinged.

Any reporting on Van Jones past on CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC???

None?

Balance...

There wouldn't be any reporting on Fox except that Color Of Change went after Beck..

792 turn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:32:50am

Are they going to finger the guy who threw the punch or pinch the guy who did the chomp? testing ...

793 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:33:09am

re: #769 JohnnyReb

One of my friends almost had that happen to their dog. Seems the neighbor kids had been teasing the dog for a long period of time and one of them finally got bit. The dog got saved because one of the older kids told the cops the truth about what had been happening.

That was in California years ago. Right now in AZ, the dog would be quarantined for 10 days to check for rabies. The dog is only destroyed if the attack is deemed vicious.

794 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:33:19am

re: #691 Coracle

When you're a Jet, you're a Jet all the way
from your frst cigarette to your last dyin' day...

I don't much care for that attitude.

795 SixDegrees  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:33:31am

re: #763 lawhawk

The justification most often given is Article 1, Sec. 8, Clause 18, which is the catchall provision allowing the Congress ..."to make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."

Sec. 8 provides enumerated powers of Congress - to raise navies and make national defense, and regulate commerce, etc. Since commerce can be defined to include health and education, that's your justification.

I'm not saying it's right, but that's where proponents can make the claim.

Note also Art. 1. Sec. 8. Cl. 1 - which specifically gives Congress the right to lay taxes - something that the anti-taxers routinely claim is a right that they don't have (when talking about income taxes).

A better, more specific answer than I gave above. Thanks.

796 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:33:31am

re: #789 Ringo the Gringo

I don't know about "fighting words", but I suspect that if an enraged man comes running towards you yelling, you may have a right to smack him if you feel that he is in the process of attacking you.

I don't know for sure, but it seems reasonable to me.

And the guy was 65 years old.

He hadn't gone through the social engineering that started in the 60s/70s.

797 Dreader1962  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:33:40am

re: #768 MandyManners

No. 725 has a link to a defense based on "fighting words" in California.

Mandy, I don't think that's a justification for a person to respond to words with punching them, it seems that this is a charge that can be levied against someone under a 'breach of peace' offense.

798 irish rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:33:48am

Damn... this thread has gotten me all wound up, and now I'm in the mood for a textual fist fight!

C'mon lizards... bring it! I dare ya! I double-dog dare ya!
I TRIPLE DOG dare ya!

*throws a chair at Walter*

799 kcladderman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:34:02am

re: #708 Diego

Actually, yes. This 12 year old kid was kicking my dog in the head and so he bit him. We had to go to court to stop him from being put down.

>

So they put your dog down?

800 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:34:04am

re: #792 turn

Are they going to finger the guy who threw the punch or pinch the guy who did the chomp? testing ...

Hopefully the law will get a grip on him, maybe chew him up and spit him out.

801 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:34:10am

re: #774 MandyManners

The 6th Cir. only?

It seems that most jurisdictions that recognize this, interpret it very narrowly.

802 Son of the Black Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:34:37am

re: #536 CyanSnowHawk

Can we just find someone to take down his organization already?

James Bond? ...

The fact that George Soros is still consuming oxygen is conclusive proof that the British do not have a double - 0 programme.

803 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:34:40am

re: #787 SixDegrees

No "authorization" is required. Congress is free to make whatever laws it likes. If those laws don't run afoul of the specific constraints imposed by the Constitution, they stand. There's no need for any specific Constitutional "authorization".

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The federal government is specifically delegated certain powers. Anything not on the list, they're not supposed to do.

804 Dianna  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:34:47am

re: #701 Desert Dog

So, if you tease a dog...egg him on...pull his tail...yell at him...and then he bites you...it's the dog's fault? Wow, I will have to remember this. I can start inciting all I want because it will not be my fault at all!

It is the tiger who dies when young men shoot at her with slingshots. It's her fault, you see.

805 turn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:34:50am

re: #792 turn

Can somebody tell me how to clear my browsers cache? I tried to change the avatar and even rebooted but nothing happened.

806 subsailor68  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:34:54am

re: #790 reine.de.tout

Actually, I was trying to find the Louisiana law or definition of "assault", but couldn't. I could if I looked harder, I suppose, but I don't feel like it right now.

I believe the definition in Louisiana is "that what happens to your butt when ya stop runnin' real fast".

(Just a gentle joke - I love Louisiana!)

807 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:34:56am
A witness from the scene says a man was walking through the anti-reform group to get to the pro-reform side when he got into an altercation with the 65-year-old, who opposes health care reform.

Again, that witness is a MoveOn activist.

808 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:35:05am

Like a lot of law, this is open to different opinions...

Officials charged Paul Cohen with violating a California law prohibiting “maliciously and willfully disturbing the peace or quiet of any neighborhood or person by … offensive conduct.”

The state argued that Cohen’s jacket constituted fighting words under Chaplinsky. The Supreme Court disagreed, writing in its 1971 ruling that the words on the jacket were not a “direct personal insult” and that no one had reacted violently to the jacket.

In oft-cited language, Justice John Paul Harlan wrote:

"For while the particular four-letter word being litigated here is perhaps more distasteful than most others of its genre, it is nevertheless often true that one man’s vulgarity is another’s lyric.

Indeed, we think it is largely because governmental officials cannot make principled distinctions in this area that the Constitution leaves manners of taste and style so largely to the individual."

This ruling established that fighting words should be confined to direct personal insults.

[Link: www.firstamendmentcenter.org...]

809 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:35:11am

re: #775 Dreader1962

He would have to demonstrate more than his 'feelings' of the threat. States vary on this, but I think it's dangerous to set up the premise in people's minds that they can shoot someone who yells at them in a heated argument.

WA is very liberal on interpetations of self defense, the key being a reasonable perceived threat. Somebody in your house at night with something in their hand is pretty much fair game.

Somebody in your face, a push is reasonable, a closed fist not so much, would depend on lot on who was yelling and who was punching. A 6ft guy yelling a little ole lady, the lady would have no problems with a punch, vice versa it would be a problem.

810 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:35:18am

re: #798 irish rose

Damn... this thread has gotten me all wound up, and now I'm in the mood for a textual fist fight!

C'mon lizards... bring it! I dare ya! I double-dog dare ya!
I TRIPLE DOG dare ya!

*throws a chair at Walter*

Strike up the Star Trek fight music!

811 redstateredneck  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:35:46am

re: #775 Dreader1962

He would have to demonstrate more than his 'feelings' of the threat. States vary on this, but I think it's dangerous to set up the premise in people's minds that they can shoot someone who yells at them in a heated argument.


I was exaggerating; however:

Louisiana allows the use of deadly force in self-defense or defense of others to “prevent a violent or forcible felony involving danger to life or great bodily harm.” People also can shoot intruders inside a home, business or car even if there is no such threat — and need not make any effort to retreat.

That’s different from most states, which sanction physical force to prevent imminent physical danger and deadly force only when there is reasonable fear of “serious physical injury or death” — and the person in danger is otherwise unable to first safely retreat.


Reine is from Louisiana, so she is well aware of this.

812 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:35:53am

re: #797 Dreader1962

Mandy, I don't think that's a justification for a person to respond to words with punching them, it seems that this is a charge that can be levied against someone under a 'breach of peace' offense.


Okay.

813 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:35:58am

re: #764 Diego

This is another case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't". The GOP has been calling for cleaning up the waste and abuse in Medicare for years and when someone says they're going to do it then attack them. It's already been stated time and again that the cuts will NOT be from services.


Mr. President, Don't tell us you're going to do away with the waste and abuse in Medicare. Just do it. When you've done it you can address the other healthcare issues.
...
You can't take away $500 Billion and claim services will not be affected. If you cut payments to hospitals, logic dictates services will be affected.
/no brainer

814 turn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:36:03am

re: #800 Mad Al-Jaffee

Hopefully the law will get a grip on him, maybe chew him up and spit him out.

Yeah, like nail him at a rapid clip.

815 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:36:04am

re: #803 JamesTKirk

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The federal government is specifically delegated certain powers. Anything not on the list, they're not supposed to do.

I was just getting ready to say this. The Constitution comprises a document of positive liberties, that is, things we allow the federal government to do. Anything not in the document is the states' privilege.

816 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:36:05am

re: #794 Dianna

re: #691 Coracle
When you're a Jet, you're a Jet all the way
from your frst cigarette to your last dyin' day...

I don't much care for that attitude.

It loses something without the choreography. You had to be there.

817 Ed_Gibbon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:36:16am

re: #37 Honorary Yooper

Problem is, if I'm reading the article correctly, it was the socialist who bit off the other guy's finger.

That's right and that's why he spit it out, he was expecting chicken...And by the way the LA Times (the paper of record -3hrs) went back and forth on this--- the "guilty" party being pro-reform, then anti-reform, and finally pro-reform. Intense crack reporting, with the latest here: [Link: latimesblogs.latimes.com...]

818 Diego  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:36:18am

re: #799 kcladderman

No, we won, but from now on the dog can't leave the house without a muzzle and on a leash, supervised by an adult. Pathetic. The kid should have gotten that order, not our dog!

819 irish rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:36:24am

re: #810 CyanSnowHawk

Strike up the Star Trek fight music!

*throws water balloon at Charles*

820 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:36:26am

re: #810 CyanSnowHawk

Strike up the Star Trek fight music!

Kaaahn!!!

821 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:36:32am

re: #809 jcm

WA is very liberal on interpetations of self defense, the key being a reasonable perceived threat. Somebody in your house at night with something in their hand is pretty much fair game.

Somebody in your face, a push is reasonable, a closed fist not so much, would depend on lot on who was yelling and who was punching. A 6ft guy yelling a little ole lady, the lady would have no problems with a punch, vice versa it would be a problem.

No no no.

In the bolded scenario, the old lady started it.

Cart her ass off the jail.

822 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:36:41am

re: #798 irish rose

Damn... this thread has gotten me all wound up, and now I'm in the mood for a textual fist fight!

C'mon lizards... bring it! I dare ya! I double-dog dare ya!
I TRIPLE DOG dare ya!

*throws a chair at Walter*

Thanks. It's a nice chair. I was getting tired of standing. It's so good of you to think of my needs. I hope I can return the favor some day.

(channeling California)

823 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:37:04am

re: #814 turn

Yeah, like nail him at a rapid clip.

Then the hospital would have to give the man a cure.

824 CommonCents  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:37:05am

re: #807 Ben Hur

Again, that witness is a MoveOn activist.

Wasn't their an SEIU union rep there that could give us an honest description of what happened?
/, dripping /

825 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:37:20am

re: #268 avanti

As have I, but not by Jones.

The only problem is when you have abhorrent stuff like the Tuskegee Experiment in the history of the country, people will begin looking into other things and trying to create connections and conspiracies. Then with the human brains ability to perceive patterns in random chaos, suddenly you have all sorts of sinister theories being bantered around about stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with reality.

826 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:37:20am

re: #727 Dreader1962

Do you agree that the other person hiding out does not speak well for him?

Yep. He should also face whatever music there is to face.

827 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:37:24am

re: #811 redstateredneck

Reine is from Louisiana, so she is well aware of this.

yes, I am awre of that but couldn't find that. Can you send me the link?

828 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:37:31am

re: #822 Walter L. Newton

Thanks. It's a nice chair. I was getting tired of standing. It's so good of you to think of my needs. I hope I can return the favor some day.

(channeling California)

Are the chairs feelings hurt? I think we should bring in a chair counselor...One for you too, Walter...

829 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:37:35am

re: #789 Ringo the Gringo

I don't know about "fighting words", but I suspect that if an enraged man comes running towards you yelling, you may have a right to smack him if you feel that he is in the process of attacking you.

I don't know for sure, but it seems reasonable to me.

It is certainly your right to go into a defensive posture...He attacked off the bat with a punch.. My Lawd..He is a 65 yr old man..Who does he think he is Rocky? I'm sure there were words spoken...You march around protesting there are always words spoken...

830 SixDegrees  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:37:45am

re: #803 JamesTKirk

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The federal government is specifically delegated certain powers. Anything not on the list, they're not supposed to do.

See Lawhawk's response, above.

One of those delegated powers is the power to pass laws. There'd be no point at all even having a Legislative branch otherwise.

831 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:37:49am

re: #798 irish rose

Damn... this thread has gotten me all wound up, and now I'm in the mood for a textual fist fight!

C'mon lizards... bring it! I dare ya! I double-dog dare ya!
I TRIPLE DOG dare ya!

*throws a chair at Walter*

Walter,
Normally I'd have your back, but Irish Rose scares me.

832 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:38:06am

re: #790 reine.de.tout

Actually, I was trying to find the Louisiana law or definition of "assault", but couldn't. I could if I looked harder, I suppose, but I don't feel like it right now.


Assault is an attempt to commit a battery, or the intentional placing of another in reasonable apprehension of receiving a battery.

LSA-R.S. 14:36

There are further dfinitions for "aggravated" and "with a gun" etc.

833 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:38:11am

Time to quit ignoring work and go to lunch. Might be back later if I can keep the guilt at bay.

834 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:38:20am

re: #801 Creeping Eruption

It seems that most jurisdictions that recognize this, interpret it very narrowly.


What I'm asking is if the decisions of the USSC apply only to the state from which the case came? Does Miranda apply only in Arizona?

835 Erik The Red  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:38:21am

re: #771 reine.de.tout

Good afternoon, RedState!
I'm sure you intended to address "reine" in that post,eh?
LOLOLOLOL!
Where is your mind today?

You won't believe how many times I have almost done the same thing. Thank goodness I proof read most of my comments before posting.:)))

836 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:39:16am

re: #798 irish rose

Damn... this thread has gotten me all wound up, and now I'm in the mood for a textual fist fight!

C'mon lizards... bring it! I dare ya! I double-dog dare ya!
I TRIPLE DOG dare ya!

*throws a chair at Walter*

Heck! Let's do a cage match between our Marine Sons.. Let's throw down some cash!
LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!

837 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:39:21am

re: #808 Walter L. Newton

Ah, Cohen v. California. Fuck the Draft!

838 turn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:39:27am

re: #823 Mad Al-Jaffee

Then the hospital would have to give the man a cure.

Hang him I say, really nail him. Hey mad digit my question about the cache? I'm using IE but can't figure out how to clear it.

839 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:39:32am

re: #830 SixDegrees

See Lawhawk's response, above.

The Commerce Clause has been overused for decades to justify everything.

One of those delegated powers is the power to pass laws. There'd be no point at all even having a Legislative branch otherwise.

But they can't just pass any laws they like, otherwise there'd be no point at all in even having a Constitution. They are only allowed control over certain areas; the rest devolve to the states and/or the people.

840 kcladderman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:39:59am

re: #812 MandyManners

Okay.

I am making a wild guess that dreader was not a member of the jury in your case Mandy.

841 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:40:03am

re: #803 JamesTKirk

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The federal government is specifically delegated certain powers. Anything not on the list, they're not supposed to do.

The 10th Amendment runs into the nebulous language I cited above (art 1, sec. 8, cl. 18), which is how items that you could say were the state's obligations are somehow in the federal arena.

Then again, many times the feds have to step in to take an issue where states treat things differently and you need to have consistency (a commerce clause style argument).

842 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:40:06am

re: #834 MandyManners

What I'm asking is if the decisions of the USSC apply only to the state from which the case came? Does Miranda apply only in Arizona?

SCOTUS decisions are applicable across all jurisdictions as precedent. That being said, it looked to me more like the case was intended more to put a limit on free speech by saying people who are being deliberately offensive can be arrested, not that they can get decked.

843 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:40:16am

re: #828 Desert Dog

Are the chairs feelings hurt? I think we should bring in a chair counselor...One for you too, Walter...

You may be right? I did sit on the chair, with out asking. I was just assuming that since it was a chair, and acting like a chair, that I could treat it like a chair and make the appropriate next move.

I guess I made a mistake, since the chair broke and I sliced my finger on it's splintered wood. And then the chair left.

My bad.

844 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:40:23am

Here in Texas, the cops will automatically take the side of a "senior citizen" in a violent altercation with a younger person. This isn't the law obviously but it is a long-standing custom and everyone knows it. It's the reason so many of the old rednecks here are so aggressive, they know the law will punish the victims for defending themselves. One reason I liked turning 60 is that I can now smack the old bastards around just like a real citizen when they shove, curse, spit, and insult my ladyfriend, something they make a practice of doing. It is especially helpful that I apparently look about 10 years younger than I am.
Being old and stupid is much worse than being young and stupid, and senior immunity is a crock.

845 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:40:27am

re: #838 turn

I think you just click on Tools, Internet Options then Clear History.

846 CommonCents  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:40:59am

re: #838 turn

Hang him I say, really nail him. Hey mad digit my question about the cache? I'm using IE but can't figure out how to clear it.

Tools-Options-Temporary Internet Files (Delete files)

847 turn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:41:23am

re: #845 Mad Al-Jaffee

I think you just click on Tools, Internet Options then Clear History.

I did that and even rebooted. oh well, thanks. I have to go get something to eat.

848 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:41:27am

re: #840 kcladderman

I am making a wild guess that dreader was not a member of the jury in your case Mandy.

All it takes is one out of 12.

849 Dreader1962  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:41:27am

re: #811 redstateredneck

Reine is from Louisiana, so she is well aware of this.

I agree with the home aspect of this; I don't for a moment think that someone must flee from their home. However, this incident happened in public and the 'bitee' was participating in a protest to counter another protest (which is already a confrontation - he was not simply walking about the area enjoying the weather). From the accounts, he could have retreated.

Does anyone know if any arrest warrant has been issued for the other person, or is it just a request for questioning?

850 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:41:30am

This is why I love LGF. Where else can one learn so much on a blog from so many different people with differing opinions without a major flame war?

851 NukeAtomrod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:41:41am

I don't know who is to blame for this biting incident, but one thing is certain. William Rice had a hand in it.

852 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:41:46am

re: #847 turn

I did that and even rebooted. oh well, thanks. I have to go get something to eat.

I hope it's not finger food.

853 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:41:53am

re: #850 Honorary Yooper

This is why I love LGF. Where else can one learn so much on a blog from so many different people with differing opinions without a major flame war?

*heats up the flamethrower*

You rang?

854 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:41:55am

re: #832 Creeping Eruption

LSA-R.S. 14:36

There are further dfinitions for "aggravated" and "with a gun" etc.

thanks.
That La. Legis website is the most difficult thing to use.
You almost have to know what it is you're looking for before you can find it.

855 CommonCents  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:41:59am

re: #845 Mad Al-Jaffee

I think you just click on Tools, Internet Options then Clear History.

That doesn't clear the saved images and scripts in your cache.

856 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:42:19am

re: #705 Charles

I want to clarify something -- I am NOT a fan of Van Jones. However, what Glenn Beck has been doing on his show is simply disgusting. He's taken all kinds of facts and statements out of context, and IGNORED anything that goes against his premise. He's promoting a false, insanely biased view of the guy.

Van Jones is undoubtedly a leftist. But rather than deal with him on the issues, what the Beck crowd is doing is distorting and misrepresenting the truth, in what amounts to pure character assassination.

I cannot support that kind of crap, and I never will.

I'm in a real dilemma here. I haven't seen seen any of the Glenn Beck shows about Van Jones, so I don't know what's being discussed. On the other hand, I know for a fact that Van Jones is just about as extremist as you can get, because I've witnessed it in person.

But I am unable to document what I know for fear of compromising my identity, So I've just going to have to let this this issue drop.

But just because Glenn Beck is scrambling around exaggerating what little evidence he has dug up, doesn't mean that Jones is factually innocent of what he's being accused of. I wager Jones is actually much much more extreme than Glenn Beck even imagines.

It looks like Glenn Beck has poisoned the well, by simply covering the issue. Too bad.

857 turn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:42:24am

re: #846 CommonCents

Tools-Options-Temporary Internet Files (Delete files)

Thanks, tried that. I guess it takes a while to change. NBD

858 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:42:27am

re: #842 thedopefishlives

SCOTUS decisions are applicable across all jurisdictions as precedent. That being said, it looked to me more like the case was intended more to put a limit on free speech by saying people who are being deliberately offensive can be arrested, not that they can get decked.

Okey dokey.

859 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:42:33am

Funny to see so many that embrace the idea that Obama was born in Kenya and yet are appalled that Jones believed 9/11 was an inside job.

860 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:42:44am

re: #854 reine.de.tout

thanks.
That La. Legis website is the most difficult thing to use.
You almost have to know what it is you're looking for before you can find it.

just because a record is public, doesn't mean they need to make it easy for you to find. :)

861 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:43:33am

re: #835 Erik The Red

You won't believe how many times I have almost done the same thing. Thank goodness I proof read most of my comments before posting.:)))

heh.
My security has been breached so often, what with cookbook correspondence,etc. - I just can't worry about it.

862 CommonCents  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:43:36am

re: #847 turn

I thought I saw that you were trying to change your avatar. It doesn't look any different to me than before. It's still a 180 degree arrow. And you don't control my temporary internet files. Are you sure you saved your change?

863 redstateredneck  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:43:36am

re: #827 reine.de.tout

yes, I am awre of that but couldn't find that. Can you send me the link?


I got it from here, which is a repost of an Advocate article that has since been archived. Too lazy to follow all the links back.

864 turn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:44:05am

re: #852 Mad Al-Jaffee

I hope it's not finger food.

You knuckle ball you.

865 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:44:32am

re: #859 Chekote

Funny to see so many that embrace the idea that Obama was born in Kenya and yet are appalled that Jones believed 9/11 was an inside job.

Actually, a lot of the nirthers are also troofers, including World Nut Daily's birther lead-man, Jerome Corsi.

866 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:44:38am

re: #664 MandyManners

Hasn't the USSC ruled that there *are* words hat are so bad that someone who reacts to them is more or less in the clear?


That would depend on the race of the two in the altercation...
Mandy ...You should know this by now!!

867 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:44:39am

re: #863 redstateredneck

I got it from here, which is a repost of an Advocate article that has since been archived. Too lazy to follow all the links back.

thanks.
I think they charge to look at archives, anyway, so you probably wouldn't have found much more. But thanks.

868 NukeAtomrod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:44:40am

re: #859 Chekote

Funny to see so many that embrace the idea that Obama was born in Kenya and yet are appalled that Jones believed 9/11 was an inside job.

There's no one like that around here, Kemosabe.

869 redstateredneck  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:44:45am

re: #835 Erik The Red

You won't believe how many times I have almost done the same thing. Thank goodness I proof read most of my comments before posting.:)))

Too much Facebook, right?
;-)

870 Irish Rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:44:48am

re: #836 HoosierHoops

Heck! Let's do a cage match between our Marine Sons.. Let's throw down some cash!
LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!

... my Marine would take your Marine any day of the week, Hoosier.
Tenspot says :).

871 SixDegrees  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:45:16am

re: #839 JamesTKirk

But they can't just pass any laws they like, otherwise there'd be no point at all in even having a Constitution. They are only allowed control over certain areas; the rest devolve to the states and/or the people.

Actually, they're perfectly free to pass whatever laws they like.

It's up to the Judicial Branch to rule whether those laws are unconstitutional if someone decides to challenge them.

If you seriously believe that Congress is constitutionally forbidden to pass laws related to health care, I don't understand what the ongoing froth over health care legislation is about. All it would take to derail it would be a simple Supreme Court challenge that would pretty much automatically be upheld. Problem solved.

872 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:45:24am

re: #856 zombie

I'm in a real dilemma here. I haven't seen seen any of the Glenn Beck shows about Van Jones, so I don't know what's being discussed. On the other hand, I know for a fact that Van Jones is just about as extremist as you can get, because I've witnessed it in person.

But I am unable to document what I know for fear of compromising my identity, So I've just going to have to let this this issue drop.

But just because Glenn Beck is scrambling around exaggerating what little evidence he has dug up, doesn't mean that Jones is factually innocent of what he's being accused of. I wager Jones is actually much much more extreme than Glenn Beck even imagines.

It looks like Glenn Beck has poisoned the well, by simply covering the issue. Too bad.

Anyone can find out about Jones on the Internet without resorting to Glenn Beck. As I posted to you earlier, I learned about him here, on July 21, from a thread from Charles.

873 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:46:02am

re: #859 Chekote

Huh?

874 scottishbuzzsaw  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:46:10am

re: #789 Ringo the Gringo

I don't know about "fighting words", but I suspect that if an enraged man comes running towards you yelling, you may have a right to smack him if you feel that he is in the process of attacking you.

I don't know for sure, but it seems reasonable to me.

One of the articles linked to upthread says the the 65-year old pushed the pro-Obama-reform fellow's face out of his, using an open hand. To me, that would explain how the biter could get a grip on his finger. Using a clenched fist to strike? Can't see it.

875 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:46:33am

re: #746 Mad Mullah

Some of those statements that people are digging up about Van Jones are not statements that he made in his youth, they're statements that were made just months ago or last year.

"Eco-Capitalism" is simply a ploy, a small stepping stone towards the greater goal of "transforming the whole society" and complete revolution. I don't think that he's so "sekrit" about being a radical progressive commie or whatever one chooses to call him.

‘GREEN JOBS’ GOAL IS ‘COMPLETE REVOLUTION’ AWAY FROM ‘GRAY CAPITALISM’ - Here is the video where he says what the goal of "green jobs" is.

[Link: www.breitbart.tv...]

Van Jones is as much of a capitalist as some of those human rights groups are really for human rights, which is to say not much at all. In addition to being a radical "progressive", he also indulges in ignorant race theories and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was a truther, because he fits the profile wonderfully. I do agree that greater proof should be provided besides his name on a list.

I agree 100%

876 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:46:42am

re: #866 reloadingisnotahobby

That would depend on the race of the two in the altercation...
Mandy ...You should know this by now!!

Or the gender.

877 turn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:46:47am

re: #862 CommonCents

I thought I saw that you were trying to change your avatar. It doesn't look any different to me than before. It's still a 180 degree arrow. And you don't control my temporary internet files. Are you sure you saved your change?

Is the arrow pointing to the left still? It is for me. I'll check manage my account again.

878 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:46:52am

Water-break.

879 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:47:06am

re: #850 Honorary Yooper

This is why I love LGF. Where else can one learn so much on a blog from so many different people with differing opinions without a major flame war?

Mark my words.. It will be at least another million comments before so many posts about finger foods and chicken fingers and digits ever occur here again.
In fact I predict there will be another man bites dog thread before another man bites finger post here...
/Checking Stats...

880 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:47:18am

re: #780 reine.de.tout

Your foreign language trumps his foreign language.

Einer, der ständig eine andere Sprache von jenem, die all sprachen, der is ein großer Aufspieler.

Ich weiß nicht, wie "attention hüre" auf Deutsch zu sagen.

881 Dreader1962  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:47:28am

re: #854 reine.de.tout

thanks.
That La. Legis website is the most difficult thing to use.
You almost have to know what it is you're looking for before you can find it.

I find that with nearly any law reference site. Normally for powerful searching you have to subscribe.

By the way, my experience is some years in military law, but we had quite a few references to state and federal law that we had to use. I enjoyed working in that field quite a bit, but I doubt that I'll return to it. Time marches on.

882 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:47:35am

re: #868 NukeAtomrod

Right you are. This blog is one of the few places on the right where I can find solace and comfort.

883 CommonCents  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:47:36am

re: #877 turn

Is the arrow pointing to the left still? It is for me. I'll check manage my account again.

Yep

884 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:47:39am

re: #859 Chekote

No, no, Obama is from Alpha Centauri and is here to Serve Man.

885 CommonCents  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:47:49am

re: #878 MandyManners

Water-break.

Didn't know you were expecting.

886 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:47:57am

re: #878 MandyManners

Water-break.

Off the deck?

887 Eowyn2  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:48:00am

re: #843 Walter L. Newton

You may be right? I did sit on the chair, with out asking. I was just assuming that since it was a chair, and acting like a chair, that I could treat it like a chair and make the appropriate next move.

I guess I made a mistake, since the chair broke and I sliced my finger on it's splintered wood. And then the chair left.
My bad.

And I was thinking of throwing you some candles to go with the chair.

888 Spenser (with an S)  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:48:17am

re: #798 irish rose

Hi Rose. Maybe as a palette-cleanser, I was at a great concert the other night at the Meijer Gardens where an Irishman was playing a Bouzouki (sp?). Great stuff and I thought of you hearing it.

889 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:48:23am

re: #878 MandyManners

Water-break.

My daughter is waiting for that. I just hope it doesn't happen until we get there.

890 Charpete67  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:48:58am

I guess short of a video or a legal expert on CA law, we won't know who started this or who is on the hook...my 2 cents would be...what kind of animal bites a persons finger off...seriously.

891 debutaunt  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:49:05am

re: #362 MandyManners

"No matter who ultimately is to blame for these bombings

What in the world? Who else is to blame but those who plotted and committed those acts?

BOMBINGS?

892 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:49:12am

The loony biter came all the way over to the anti-Obamacare side of the street, and then he got right in the victim's face - probably no more than an inch or two between them. And the biter probably had really bad breath too, and he was yelling at the elderly victim and probably spraying gobs of his foul spit all over the senior.
The biter was hounding the senior and probably had him backed up against some folks standing behind the poor old fellow.
So then the victim, now off balance, raised his arm for balance and accidentally struck the biter.
Then the biter, seeing the old man's fingers in front of his face, took careful aim at the poor little pinky, and...CHOMP!
That's his story, and I'm sticking to it.

893 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:49:16am
894 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:49:24am

re: #871 SixDegrees

Actually, they're perfectly free to pass whatever laws they like.

It's up to the Judicial Branch to rule whether those laws are unconstitutional if someone decides to challenge them.

If you seriously believe that Congress is constitutionally forbidden to pass laws related to health care, I don't understand what the ongoing froth over health care legislation is about. All it would take to derail it would be a simple Supreme Court challenge that would pretty much automatically be upheld. Problem solved.

I never actually said that. Somebody asked where in the Constitution the government was granted the power to regulate health care, and somebody else basically said it didn't matter. The answers are apparently "the vastly over-used Commerce Clause" and "yes, it does the hell matter".

895 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:49:26am

re: #881 Dreader1962

I find that with nearly any law reference site. Normally for powerful searching you have to subscribe.

By the way, my experience is some years in military law, but we had quite a few references to state and federal law that we had to use. I enjoyed working in that field quite a bit, but I doubt that I'll return to it. Time marches on.

When I worked for the state, I kept a paper copy of the La constitution - still have it, it's about to fall apart, so much easier to find what I needed,when I needed it, than looking at the website.

896 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:49:52am

re: #762 Dotcoman

A Lot of former Marxist "community Organizers" seem to have found cushy Admin jobs in the Green movement, after the Soviet revolution money dried up down south back in the '90's

Zombie, set that charge and blow away!

Sadly, I must refrain on this story, due to personal safety considerations.

I know that I really ought to back up my claims with solid evidence, but sometimes one's family takes precedence over scoring political points.

897 CommonCents  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:50:14am

Turn! You're heading in the RIGHT direction now.

898 subsailor68  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:50:35am

re: #878 MandyManners

Water-break.

Quick! Little Luke, you boil some water. Grandpa, get them clean sheets! Ma'am, you just lie easy now, I done this plenty o' times out on the prairie.

899 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:50:46am

re: #893 taxfreekiller

Connections:

William Ayers connected to B. Obama, B. Obama connected to Van Jones, all connected to,,,?.

three clues
1. some word starting with a C
2. some word ending in T.
3. some word well known by all.

Don't say that word in front of Mandy.

900 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:50:49am

re: #729 HelloDare


US Cuts Off Aid To Honduras

The Obama administration on Thursday cut all non-humanitarian aid to Honduras over the ouster of President Manuel Zelaya, making permanent a temporary suspension of U.S. aid imposed after he was deposed in June. The State Department made the announcement as Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton was meeting with Zelaya. Spokesman Ian Kelly did not say how much assistance would be cut but officials have said previously that more than $200 million is at stake. Kelly said it affected "a broad range of assistance to the government of Honduras."

"The Secretary of State has made the decision, consistent with U.S. legislation, recognizing the need for strong measures in light of the continued resistance to the adoption of the San Jose Accord by the de facto regime and continuing failure to restore democratic, constitutional rule to Honduras," Kelly said in a statement. The San Jose accord, brokered by Costa Rican President Oscar Arias, aims to return Zelaya to power with limited authority until elections now set for November. But Zelaya's replacement, Roberto Micheletti, has refused to accept it.

At least Honduras is stubborn enough to resist all this pressure. The Government isn't going to back down over there and the support for Zelaya is limited at this time in his former country.

It's unfortunate that the Honduras Government kicked him out in the first place, they should have simply placed him under arrest and then tried him for treason. Exiiing just made things more confusing. If I were Honduras, I'd offer to have him back but with the agreement that he has to face trial, if he's Acquitted then he can serve out the remainder of his term. (that his term ends in a few months... well too bad about that!)

901 turn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:51:20am

re: #877 turn

Is the arrow pointing to the left still? It is for me. I'll check manage my account again.

test

902 Eowyn2  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:51:29am

re: #853 thedopefishlives

*heats up the flamethrower*

You rang?


I see your flame thrower and raise you an acetylene torch

903 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:51:52am

re: #893 taxfreekiller

Connections:

William Ayers connected to B. Obama, B. Obama connected to Van Jones, all connected to,,,?.

three clues
1. some word starting with a C
2. some word ending in T.
3. some word well known by all.

They're all cats! I knew it!

904 Irish Rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:52:00am

re: #888 Spenser (with an S)

May have known him, who was playing?

905 Kenneth  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:52:00am

re: #663 Shiplord Kirel

This isn't some throwaway internet petition. What would happen if someone put Charles's name on that list and the troofers falsely claimed to have verified it?

Somebody would have an embolism?

906 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:52:11am

re: #878 MandyManners

Your water broke???
Call 911...

907 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:52:19am

re: #901 turn

test

Yer going the wrong way

908 turn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:52:21am

re: #901 turn

test

Finally!

You dumb shit turn, you uploaded the reverse arrow again. sheesh

909 CommonCents  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:52:48am

re: #900 bloodstar

At least Honduras is stubborn enough to resist all this pressure. The Government isn't going to back down over there and the support for Zelaya is limited at this time in his former country.

It's unfortunate that the Honduras Government kicked him out in the first place, they should have simply placed him under arrest and then tried him for treason. Exiiing just made things more confusing. If I were Honduras, I'd offer to have him back but with the agreement that he has to face trial, if he's Acquitted then he can serve out the remainder of his term. (that his term ends in a few months... well too bad about that!)

See, Obama is committed to fiscal discipline. He's going to pay for his "reforms" be cutting aid to democracies around the world. Adios Allies.

910 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:52:53am

re: #902 Eowyn2

I see your flame thrower and raise you an acetylene torch

An elegant weapon, for a more civilized age.

911 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:53:31am

re: #890 Charpete67

California legal experts?

Youtube Video
912 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:53:32am

re: #596 Coracle

Violence is the last resort of...

OUtside of the boxing ring, he who punches first is wrong.

Not necessarily. It depends on state law and the circumstances surrounding the altercation.

913 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:53:43am

re: #856 zombie

I'm in a real dilemma here. I haven't seen seen any of the Glenn Beck shows about Van Jones, so I don't know what's being discussed. On the other hand, I know for a fact that Van Jones is just about as extremist as you can get, because I've witnessed it in person.

But I am unable to document what I know for fear of compromising my identity, So I've just going to have to let this this issue drop.

But just because Glenn Beck is scrambling around exaggerating what little evidence he has dug up, doesn't mean that Jones is factually innocent of what he's being accused of. I wager Jones is actually much much more extreme than Glenn Beck even imagines.

It looks like Glenn Beck has poisoned the well, by simply covering the issue. Too bad.

This is the same effect McCarthyism had on the anti-communist cause in the 50s and long afterward, right up the present day in fact. I would hope it will be on a smaller scale but who knows? In 20 years, lefties might try to evade discussion by yelling "Glenbeckism!" every time someone dares to criticize them.
McCarthy made it difficult for legitimate anti-communists, but not impossible: Commies still hide behind his whisky-sodden ghost but the Berlin Wall came down anyway.

914 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:53:54am

re: #902 Eowyn2

I see your flame thrower and raise you an acetylene torch

Napalm...

915 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:54:29am

re: #912 Wendya

Not necessarily. It depends on state law and the circumstances surrounding the altercation.

Ok. But that's the way it works in my house.

916 Dreader1962  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:54:30am

re: #896 zombie

Sadly, I must refrain on this story, due to personal safety considerations.

I know that I really ought to back up my claims with solid evidence, but sometimes one's family takes precedence over scoring political points.

I understand. Do not compromise cover, ever!

Many people will never know things that have happened 'behind the scenes' that deserve the recognition of the entire country, but for security cannot be told. I personally know of many. It's hard to keep their stories silent.

917 Irish Rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:54:42am

Going up!

918 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:55:14am

re: #893 taxfreekiller

TFK...It's bad enough to ever use that word because it may be the most offensive word in the English Language...But..You alluded to it...
There is a fine line I suppose between the two...It's not a classy word TFK.

919 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:55:43am

re: #900 bloodstar

Would arresting him have made that big a difference? The Obama administration would not have cut off aid if Zelaya were in prison?

I guess if they had a trial, it would have been harder for the U.S. to cut off aid. I don't know about this one.

920 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:57:13am
921 Spenser (with an S)  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:57:20am

re: #904 Irish Rose

re: #888 Spenser (with an S)

May have known him, who was playing?

Crap, I knew you were going to ask... He was a Busker who Ralston Bowles (do you know of him?) heard playing in downtown Grand Rapids. Turns out he was an Irishman who married a local girl and was singing very well. So, Ralston had him open for himself and some others at the free concert tues. night. It was a beautiful sunset, good music, 1600 people in the "bowl" enjoying it. My kids did too.

922 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:57:30am
923 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:57:49am

re: #893 taxfreekiller

Connections:

William Ayers connected to B. Obama, B. Obama connected to Van Jones, all connected to,,,?.

three clues
1. some word starting with a C
2. some word ending in T.
3. some word well known by all.

I get it! Celt! And shame on these dirty minded lizardoids for thinking otherwise. It's an Irish conspiracy, who else would have a front man named O'bama?

924 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:58:10am

re: #922 buzzsawmonkey

Hoops, TFK was alluding to a political ideology, not a female body part.

Whoops..Sorry TFK...My deepest apology

925 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:58:15am

re: #922 buzzsawmonkey

Hoops, TFK was alluding to a political ideology, not a female body part.

I think he just has something against felines.

926 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:58:33am

re: #878 MandyManners

Water-break.

Get to the hospital!!!

927 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:59:12am

re: #926 Ben Hur

Get to the hospital!!!

Better late than never, I always say.

928 El fantasma de General Pinochet  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:59:32am

re: #920 taxfreekiller

¿Comunista?

929 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:59:56am

re: #782 Charles

That regulation says that using offensive words in a public place may result in being arrested.

It does NOT say that using offensive words in a public place is justification for being punched in the face.

Charles - that is why I used the words "a basis for a "fighting words" defense"

The USSC case cited above was one where someone claimed that his "fighting words" were free speech. The state disagreed, having a statute on the books similar to California's which prohibits such speech. The USSC ruled back in 1941 that states could prohibit such speech. Given the justification (fighting words) people have used that ruling to imply that a person who is a victim of verbal abuse can "fight back". That defense has been used in cases of hate speech, spousal abuse, elder abuse.

Here is where the USSC goes says that it is OK to have more severe punishments for those guilty of "fighting words" who direct them at any of the above classes of people. [Link: caselaw.lp.findlaw.com...]

That doesn't mean that hitting a "fighting words" offender is always justified. But it introduces a rationale under the law for taking such an action. Whether that rationale is a stretch or not depends on the facts of the case - if it were a gay black woman being abused by a particularly abusive Nazi and she hit the guy you'd have a hard time finding a jury willing to convict her of assault, let alone a prosecutor who'd touch the case.

Like I said - a basis for a defense. By no means a "get out of jail free" card.

930 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 12:01:18pm

re: #920 taxfreekiller

Concordant?
Cosmonaut?
Contortionist?

931 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 12:01:59pm

Does anyone here think for a second that the biter's choice of the fifth digit was a coincidence?

Baby finger...
Pinky finger...

932 debutaunt  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 12:02:02pm

re: #882 Chekote

Right you are. This blog is one of the few places on the right where I can find solace and comfort.

...and puns.

933 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 12:02:12pm

re: #761 CommonCents

So the moveon.org agitator can approach the senior citizen and say "I'm going to kick your ass old man" at which point the other guy pops him in the nose. Is assault something you can respond to with battery or does he have to wait for the battery to happen to himself.

This appears to be the applicable California law on self defense (search for CALJIC 5.30 near the bottom of the page).

CALJIC 5.30 Self-Defense Against Assault

It is lawful for a person who is being assaulted to defend himself from attack if, as a
reasonable person, he has grounds for believing and does believe that bodily injury is
about to be inflicted upon him. In doing so, that person may use all the force and means
which he believes to be reasonably necessary and which would appear to a reasonable
person, in the same or similar circumstances, to be necessary to present the injury
which appears to be imminent.

CALJIC 16.111 Use of Excessive Force by Officer (in part)
A peace officer is not permitted to use unreasonable or excessive force in detaining or
attempting to detain a person for questioning.
CALJIC 16.103 Discharge or Performance of Duties – Defined (in part)
A peace officer is discharging or attempting to discharge his duties if he is lawfully
detaining or attempting to detain a person for questioning or investigation.

SELF DEFENSE

If a person, as a reasonable person, is justified in believing that his assailant intends to
commit a felony upon him, he has the right in defense of his person to use all force
necessary to repel the assault upon him, even to take the life of his adversary. P. V.
Collins (1961) 189 Cal. App. 2nd 575,

934 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 12:04:32pm

re: #759 Alouette

תנשק לי בצד שני

Is this a euphemism for "küss mir im Toches"?

935 Eowyn2  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 12:06:11pm

re: #764 Diego

This is another case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't". The GOP has been calling for cleaning up the waste and abuse in Medicare for years and when someone says they're going to do it then attack them. It's already been stated time and again that the cuts will NOT be from services.

It's also been stated time and again that it is going to be tax neutral, or that only the 'really wealthy' will have to pay higher taxes. I find these statements rather difficult to believe. Unless the tax increase on those making 250,000 and over is a minimum of 10%.

By the by, we all started getting an average of 10 bucks extra on our paychecks in January. Has anyone seen an IRS notice that states our tax percentage will be lowered for 2009 to accomodate that 'tax break' or should I plan on owing the gvmt an additional 500 bucks come April 2010??

936 Eowyn2  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 12:08:58pm

re: #914 jcm

Napalm...


I think you win

937 Son of the Black Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 12:15:21pm

re: #728 oh_dude

Dumb question, but can someone tell me where I can find documentation (U.S. Constitution, etc.) that authorizes the Federal government to manage health care? Education?

Just curious.

No answer here, but I can relate something from the 1960 presidential campaign. A group of us kids were being carpooled to some activity, and one of the kids in the car, a JFK supporter, was talking about JFK's proposal that the federal government should provide aid to state and local governments for K-12 education. Like that was a good thing. The adult driving us pointed out that if the federal government started providing education aid to the states, pretty soon the federal government would control education. In retrospect, I think we can all agree that that was correct. Think it will be any different with healthcare? We're well on the way already.

938 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 12:17:27pm

re: #900 bloodstar

If I were Honduras, I'd offer to have him back but with the agreement that he has to face trial, if he's Acquitted then he can serve out the remainder of his term. (that his term ends in a few months... well too bad about that!)

I had thought that Micheletti actually proposed this to Arias but that it was rejected. I agree that this would be the most appropriate thing to do and that exiling Zelaya was, in retrospect, a mistake, but the suggestion that the Micheletti presidency is unconstitutional seems to me to be erroneous.

939 CommonCents  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 12:25:50pm

re: #933 eschew_obfuscation

If a person, as a reasonable person, is justified in believing that his assailant intends to
commit a felony upon him, he has the right in defense of his person to use all force
necessary to repel the assault upon him, even to take the life of his adversary. P. V.
Collins (1961) 189 Cal. App. 2nd 575,

It isn't exactly " fightin' words " as deragatory statements, but a verbal confrontation can turn physical without the first person throwing a punch being the aggressor. Henceforth, some people may want to rethink some of their previous statements above. Just sayin'.

940 Picayune  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 1:59:47pm

Cavuto on FOX is interviewing Bill Rice, who had his finger bitten off at rally. Authorities are looking for the perp. Rice claims he is no hero, and has no plans to press charges against the perp. The MoveOn perp guy is looking bad in this deal, he is reported to have gone into the anti-Obamacare group "looking for trouble." Rice says he would go to the event again had he the chance for a "do-over", claims freedom is not free. Says the issue is much bigger than health care. A real man bites dog story that the MSM will probably bury/ignore.

941 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 2:03:08pm

re: #940 Picayune

And he also said the health care bill was "just a diversion while the government grabs what's left of our freedoms."

942 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 2:12:02pm

re: #935 Eowyn2

It's also been stated time and again that it is going to be tax neutral, or that only the 'really wealthy' will have to pay higher taxes. I find these statements rather difficult to believe. Unless the tax increase on those making 250,000 and over is a minimum of 10%.

By the by, we all started getting an average of 10 bucks extra on our paychecks in January. Has anyone seen an IRS notice that states our tax percentage will be lowered for 2009 to accomodate that 'tax break' or should I plan on owing the gvmt an additional 500 bucks come April 2010??

There are going to be some very unhappy people who will be writing checks to Uncle Sugar or seeing reduced refunds next April.


If you work two jobs, your employer for each job will use the current tax table which will result in an overpayment of $400.00. If you are married, filing jointly, each spouse works and your combined income is over 150K, it's possible you may owe additional taxes at the end of the year.

943 akalivas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 2:40:55pm

The anti-Obamacare guy had his finger bitten off while he was in the process of delivering his second punch.

The finger-biting grosses me out, but the puncher brought on this particular injury by his own violence.

944 Gretchen  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 3:54:13pm

Makes sense to me. The anti-health care advocate punched the pro-health care advocate. Punches don't typically require health care, just ice. The pro-healthcare advocate bit off the other guy's finger, because he was pro-healthcare and wanted his attacker to go get some health care.

Actually, it is entertaining (although sad) that this is framed as pro-health care and anti-health care.

Both guys are nuts!


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