?

Poor little dude needs one of these.

Youtube Video

“That’s a big twinkie.”
- Winston Zeddemore

One of the versions of R. Buckminster Fuller’s Dymaxion car could turn all its weels to park sideways. I don’t know if it had a ham prevention system, but I wouldn’t be surprised.

re: #4 elbruce

Like driving a suppository.

Anybody notice the little dog in the skid-mark?

Youtube Video

I laughed.

Check it out in full screen mode - there are a lot of funny details.

Was that the Griswold’s Wagon Queen Family Truckster?

There’s a sign clearly indicating he’s in the ham parking spot. He has no one to blame but himself.

re: #11 wrenchwench

There’s a sign clearly indicating he’s in the ham parking spot. He has no one to blame but himself.

Yep.
XD

re: #11 wrenchwench

I looked for things and missed that.

This one’s kinda cool too…
OCCUPATION: Movements II & III
Vimeo

When you see it…

Just talked to a friend who said I said something bad on mt FB page, which I didn’t. And my pass word is pretty secure.

re: #13 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I looked for things and missed that.

Perhaps you have been blinded to ham signs by your vegetarianness.

re: #6 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Anybody notice the little dog in the skid-mark?

Yep.
Aw.

re: #16 Cannadian Club Akbar

Just talked to a friend who said I said something bad on mt FB page, which I didn’t. And my pass word is pretty secure.

My password has algebra to throw off the people who know Calculus.
//

re: #18 reine.de.tout

Yep.
Aw.

Well, at least it wasn’t cut in half by a crazed gardener.

re: #20 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, at least it wasn’t cut in half by a crazed gardener.

That’s low, man.
Low.
:P

re: #4 elbruce

One of the versions of R. Buckminster Fuller’s Dymaxion car could turn all its weels to park sideways. I don’t know if it had a ham prevention system, but I wouldn’t be surprised.

Upding Bucky Fuller.

re: #15 Slumbering Behemoth

When you see it…

I knew it!

I would like to take this chance to thank Charles for making LGF Pages so easy. I would also like to apologize. Because I am gonna personally thake this blog’s IQ down a point or two. :)

re: #20 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, at least it wasn’t cut in half by a crazed gardener.

*sniff*
Me being the gardner in question, I take it?
I’m still not over it …

re: #24 Cannadian Club Akbar

I would like to take this chance to thank Charles for making LGF Pages so easy. I would also like to apologize. Because I am gonna personally thake this blog’s IQ down a point or two. :)

The Pages is a really fantastic feature. I scrolled through all my pages the other day looking for something and was really proud of most of what I’ve done with it. Very easy to use.

Last Saturday Night, my PBS channel showed the classic movie, “Treasure of the Sierra Madre”.

Tonight? The classic movie is “A Fish Called Wanda”.

I’m not thinking they’re using the same definition of classic as I do.

re: #26 Killgore Trout

The Pages is a really fantastic feature. I scrolled through all my pages the other day looking for something and was really proud of most of what I’ve done with it. Very easy to use.

My first was a test. My second was an abortion.
///

re: #26 Killgore Trout

The Pages is a really fantastic feature. I scrolled through all my pages the other day looking for something and was really proud of most of what I’ve done with it. Very easy to use.

Incredibly easy to use.
I’ve got the history of the oil spill, right there in the pages, if anybody wants to look for anything. Amazing.

I also really like the “subscribe” to a thread feature - if a thread is dead or dying, but I want to see any additional comments that might be made - I subscribe, and get a notice when something is posted, without having to keep a tab open or click back to the thread. It’s come in handy.

There’s a cool fall nip in the air here today. I was still wearing my wool hat the 1st week of July and summer’s already over with. My garden didn’t do much this year at all. Some squash is starting to form but it’s probably too late. Not a single ripe tomato out of the garden this year either.

re: #5 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Like driving a suppository.

Yeah, but that suppository got 30 mpg in 1933, seated 11 people, went up to 120 mph, could do a U-turn in its own length, and park sideways. Bucky was just waiting for strong enough alloys to come along so he could make it fly as well. If more people had listened to that guy, we could have had the George Jetson future that everybody missed out on. Unfortunately it had some crosswind problems, and a fatal accident during a demonstration at the 1933 world’s fair made everybody avoid the thing like the plague.

re: #30 Killgore Trout

I had maters coming out of my ears. Was up to my elbows in them. Was swimming in a sea of them.

re: #30 Killgore Trout

There’s a cool fall nip in the air here today. I was still wearing my wool hat the 1st week of July and summer’s already over with. My garden didn’t do much this year at all. Some squash is starting to form but it’s probably too late. Not a single ripe tomato out of the garden this year either.

Sorry to hear that.
Better luck next year.
We actually will dip below 70 for tonight’s low! I am so looking forward to it. The dog will get a long walk tonight.

I like how on the main page, if you hover the mouse over the last-poster’s name it does a little popup with their comment. If you recognize it, then nothing new’s appeared there.

I’m going to have to get around to playing with Pages sometime.

Epic Mickey.

Youtube Video

re: #34 elbruce

I like how on the main page, if you hover the mouse over the last-poster’s name it does a little popup with their comment. If you recognize it, then nothing new’s appeared there.

I’m going to have to get around to playing with Pages sometime.

Pages is very easy. Trust me. I’m an idiot.

re: #30 Killgore Trout

There’s a cool fall nip in the air here today. I was still wearing my wool hat the 1st week of July and summer’s already over with. My garden didn’t do much this year at all. Some squash is starting to form but it’s probably too late. Not a single ripe tomato out of the garden this year either.

You suck :) I miss living at the coast (and my beanies) with the almost always present marine layer. It’s hot as hell here today, and darn it, I want to move.

re: #36 Cannadian Club Akbar

Pages is very easy. Trust me. I’m an idiot.

I plan on a weekly column there. Pisses me off since I secured my own blog, with it’s own name.

“Shock scientist” (snort!) P.Z. Meyers and other non-believers are exactly the same as Osama bin Laden.

Those who commit atrocities to fight for the cause of Darwin are similar to those who commit atrocities for the sake of Jesus or Muhammed. They are con men, striking out in hatred and justifying their acts with figures greater than self…

Just as James Dobson and other evangelists cultivate audiences in order to spread their beliefs, so do atheist evangelizers. The bigs are Britons Christopher Hitchens, who is battling cancer, and Richard Dawkins, who turns 70 in March. Myers, who grabbed attention by vandalizing sacred religious property, is a young and energetic American evangelist on track to become the James Dobson of atheism…

The more atheists push their beliefs — through terror or preaching — the more they appear as another evangelical movement with faith in a philosophy that can never be proved or disproved. Atheists, welcome to the club. All you’re lacking are orphanages, AIDS hospices, missionaries, and thousands of charitable foundations. Get on it.

It might or might not be interesting to note that the author of that piece used to write for Soldier of Fortune magazine, and one of his pieces was cited by Timothy McVeigh as describing his justification for bombing the Murrah building.

re: #37 Stanley Sea

You suck :) I miss living at the coast (and my beanies) with the almost always present marine layer. It’s hot as hell here today, and darn it, I want to move.

But we need you to help fight Space Jesus!!!
///

re: #38 Cannadian Club Akbar

I plan on a weekly column there. Pisses me off since I secured my own blog, with it’s own name.

We could do a weekly sports post with the game of the week….
It would be fun CCA…

re: #39 negativ

I iz in ur religin disbelevin ur beleefs!

re: #41 HoosierHoops

We could do a weekly sports post with the game of the week…
It would be fun CCA…

I’m in.

re: #39 negativ

Those who commit atrocities to fight for the cause of Darwin…

I’m fighting for the cause of Darwin. What was it again?

Oh, yeah. I’m trying to evolve antlers.

re: #41 HoosierHoops

We could do a weekly sports post with the game of the week…
It would be fun CCA…

Ace & I had a college football chat this am. Next week will be even better. Games were kind of boring.

Crap!! USF is playing and I can’t find it on TV!!!!

re: #39 negativ

I forgot to add that Hitchens is a “Briton” by birth but an American by choice, and Myers’ “vandalism” consists of ‘mistreating’ a communion wafer.

tl;dr background:

A controversy arose in July 2008 over a Pharyngula blog entry written by Myers expressing amazement at news reports of death threats issued to University of Central Florida Student Senator Webster Cook. On June 29, 2008, Cook attended a Catholic Mass being held in the student union at UCF by a Catholic student group that receives funding from the student government. Cook received the Catholic Eucharist host but did not consume it immediately. He said later that he wanted to take it back to his seat to show a friend, but when stopped he put it in his mouth until back at his seat, then a church leader made forcible attempts to take the host from him. Cook stored the host at his home, then returned it one week later after receiving e-mail threats and pleas. Bill Donohue, President of the Catholic League, described the student’s actions as “beyond hate speech” and said that “All options should be on the table, including expulsion.”

In his July 8 blog entry, Myers criticized the reaction to Cook’s act. Myers described the level of harassment including multiple death threats leveled against the student, and accusations against the student which included hate crime, kidnapping, and intent to desecrate the wafer which Catholics consider a mortal sin. Myers expressed outrage that Fox News appeared to be inciting readers to cause further problems for the student, and ridiculed reports that armed guards would attend the next mass. Myers suggested that if any of his readers could acquire some consecrated Eucharistic hosts for him, he would treat the wafers “with profound disrespect and heinous cracker abuse, all photographed and presented here on the web.”

Another thing I like about the pages is the ticker for clicks. It’s kinda fun to see the click count go up. A counter for retweets might be kinda cool too.

Funny short.

Thump!

re: #47 negativ

I forgot to add that Hitchens is a “Briton” by birth but an American by choice, and Myers’ “vandalism” consists of ‘mistreating’ a communion wafer.

tl;dr background:

Good grief.
To me, it’s a cookie.
ZOMG, I’M EEEVIL INCARNATE!

re: #36 Cannadian Club Akbar

Pages is very easy. Trust me. I’m an idiot.

It’s true.

This man is an idiot.

/

re: #45 Stanley Sea

Ace & I had a college football chat this am. Next week will be even better. Games were kind of boring.

Let’s do some sports pages! It would be great fun for some Lizards..

re: #47 negativ

I forgot to add that Hitchens is a “Briton” by birth but an American by choice, and Myers’ “vandalism” consists of ‘mistreating’ a communion wafer.

tl;dr background:

Sometimes if I’m at a coffee shop I’ll grab one of those giant cookies you might see and treat it like a communion wager complete with faux Latin wording. When I’m being silly.

re: #51 JasonA

It’s true.

This man is an idiot.

/

Har. Still true.
/

re: #52 HoosierHoops

Let’s do some sports pages! It would be great fun for some Lizards..

And you can easily sort by “sports”

You only will get 1 or maybe 2!!

re: #52 HoosierHoops

Let’s do some sports pages! It would be great fun for some Lizards..

Emphasis mine.
:P

Hoops, what do we wan to write about. Because I can start here. We are the Bucs. We suck.
/

Heh

re: #55 Stanley Sea

And you can easily sort by “sports”

You only will get 1 or maybe 2!!

Because there is some real talent here…We can have some wicked bad Sports pages at LGF…

re: #50 Varek Raith

Good grief.
To me, it’s a cookie.
ZOMG, I’M EEEVIL INCARNATE!

I had a Jewish friend who worked in a Christian supply store that sold those wafers by the box. She procured one for us. We never did anything with them though. We kept talking about having an Easter Brunch with French Host and Pentecostal Sundaes and Hot Cross Buns, but we never got around to it.

We’re #2!

If you listen to sports on the radio, you are a geek. Wanna guess what I’m doing?

Really? No shit.

re: #61 Killgore Trout

We’re #2!

Drunken whores rule!!

re: #64 Cannadian Club Akbar

Drunken whores rule!!

I find this post offensive.
It’s missing a third exclamation point!

re: #61 Killgore Trout

Hmm…

Beer guzzling, belching, hideous dress sense - and that’s some of the nicer things the rest of the world said about British women.

Sounds like my kind of women.

Major complaints centred around how many are ‘rude’, ‘drink pints of beer like men’ and ‘end up drunk in the gutter’.

Yup. Definitely my kind of women.

re: #57 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hoops, what do we wan to write about. Because I can start here. We are the Bucs. We suck.
/

When I read Tony’s book and how the Buc’s locked him out after he was fired..
On a rainy night a guard over saw Dungy pack his office and escort him out in the poring rain. Effen you Bucs..There is no shame below you…

re: #62 Cannadian Club Akbar

If you listen to sports on the radio, you are a geek. Wanna guess what I’m doing?

I consider myself a clone. anyone get it?

re: #65 Varek Raith

I find this post offensive.
It’s missing a third exclamation point!

I also must male a clarification. I meant drunk sluts!!!
(better?)

re: #36 Cannadian Club Akbar

Trust me. I’m an idiot.

very convincing.
/

re: #68 Stanley Sea

I consider myself a clone. anyone get it?

I do.

re: #66 Slumbering Behemoth

It’s been a few years since I’ve been to London but I seem to remember more outrageously drunk women stumbling around at night than men. Maybe I just notice the women more.

re: #69 Cannadian Club Akbar

I also must male a clarification. I meant drunk sluts!!!
(better?)

Make= male. geez. pimf

re: #61 Killgore Trout

We’re #2!

Stupid poll.

re: #73 Cannadian Club Akbar

Make= male. geez. pimf

I thought it was an intentional Joycean pun.

re: #61 Killgore Trout

I love drunk chicks.

I’m just sayin’…

re: #72 Killgore Trout

It’s been a few years since I’ve been to London but I seem to remember more outrageously drunk women stumbling around at night than men. Maybe I just notice the women more.

Um…duh?

All the Hopkins students are back, partyin’ hearty, and the weather in Baltimore is splendid, after a very AGW-y summer, and I only notice the drunken guys when they drunkenly confront me for drunkenly staring at their drunken GFs.

Life is good!

Fuck. Was the name of the author who wrote a poem about it. Allen Ginsberg?

re: #78 Cannadian Club Akbar

Fuck. Was the name of the author who wrote a poem about it. Allen Ginsberg?

I can’t find it. Allen Ginsberg is a fucker.

re: #77 Cato the Elder

Do you live near Hopkins on near the Baltimore Market? Holy hell, you are one tough S.O.B.

re: #79 Cannadian Club Akbar

I can’t find it. Allen Ginsberg is a fucker.

I actually did a paper on him in 1992. Thinking back, I hate him. Fucking douche.

Reine - are you here? Did your daughter go to Atlanta for the game?

re: #80 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oops… I think I’m thinking of the Hospital.

re: #82 Stanley Sea

Reine - are you here? Did your daughter go to Atlanta for the game?

No, she’s home, at a friend’s, they’re cooking and watching the game.

Her roomie is there, though - she’s on the flag team. I’m hoping to see her at halftime.

littlegreenfootballs.com

Here’s a college football chat page, if anyone is interested.

BP update: Failed blowout preventer, a key piece of evidence in spill probe, raised to surface - AP

hey peeps - just checking in.

and diving straight back out again.

yeah - that’s how i roll.

re: #83 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oops… I think I’m thinking of the Hospital.

My dad has worked at the hospital his entire professional life. He’s now 76 years old and still goes there every day, and frequents the neighborhood eateries. It’s really not that bad.

My neighborhood, on the other hand, is Charles Village, where the Hopkins Homewood campus is. A few weeks back a young researcher was stabbed to death five blocks from where I live over a cellphone. They caught the killers within hours. Then the Baltimore authorities showed up at the memorial service and tried to reassure us all that this is a safe neighborhood.

There was nearly a citizen riot over that lie.

re: #88 Cato the Elder

My dad has worked at the hospital his entire professional life. He’s now 76 years old and still goes there every day, and frequents the neighborhood eateries. It’s really not that bad.

My neighborhood, on the other hand, is Charles Village, where the Hopkins Homewood campus is. A few weeks back a young researcher was stabbed to death five blocks from where I live over a cellphone. They caught the killers within hours. Then the Baltimore authorities showed up at the memorial service and tried to reassure us all that this is a safe neighborhood.

There was nearly a citizen riot over that lie.

The Wire wasn’t much of an exaggeration.

re: #60 wrenchwench

I had a Jewish friend who worked in a Christian supply store that sold those wafers by the box. She procured one for us. We never did anything with them though. We kept talking about having an Easter Brunch with French Host and Pentecostal Sundaes and Hot Cross Buns, but we never got around to it.

A pre-blessed wafer and a post-blessed wafer are two totally different things. Trying to make off with one after it’s received the eucharist blessing is a total dick move. Hardly rising to the level of a hate crime, but a dick move nonetheless.

I fucking hate Allen Ginsberg. Someone needs a beating.

re: #91 Cannadian Club Akbar

I fucking hate Allen Ginsberg. Someone needs a beating.

Dude, your game is kinda close.

re: #92 Stanley Sea

Dude, your game is kinda close.

All is fine.

re: #92 Stanley Sea

Dude, your game is kinda close.

Stony Brook? who?

re: #94 Stanley Sea

Stony Brook? who?

TD.

re: #78 Cannadian Club Akbar

Fuck. Was the name of the author who wrote a poem about it. Allen Ginsberg?

re: #79 Cannadian Club Akbar

I can’t find it. Allen Ginsberg is a fucker.

re: #81 Cannadian Club Akbar

I actually did a paper on him in 1992. Thinking back, I hate him. Fucking douche.

A) What?

B) How many people are using your keyboard to have an apparent conversation with yourself?

C) What’s wrong with Allen Ginsberg?

re: #95 Cannadian Club Akbar

TD.

phew

By the way, I’d like to recommend this page of Killgore’s, showing just how abysmally, creepily stupid Pam Geller and cohorts are.

re: #96 elbruce

re: #79 Cannadian Club Akbar

re: #81 Cannadian Club Akbar

A) What?

B) How many people are using your keyboard to have an apparent conversation with yourself?

C) What’s wrong with Allen Ginsberg?

Yea. He only wrote a paper (poem) about molesting kids. That is what I am looking for.

re: #99 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yea. He only wrote a paper (poem) about molesting kids. That is what I am looking for.

“Show me your ass kid” or “Show me your ass boy”. Ginsberg is a fucking asshole.

re: #89 Dark_Falcon

The Wire wasn’t much of an exaggeration.

there was a wonderful piece of web design by a British satirist spoofing the website of the mayor of Baltimore complaining about how it had such a bad rep in the UK purely based on the Wire……….where as the English village of Midsomer had a murder rate many many times worse……………

i think all trace of the spoof site has been removed :(

re: #99 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yea. He only wrote a paper (poem) about molesting kids. That is what I am looking for.

I need to see this linked.

re: #47 negativ

I forgot to add that Hitchens is a “Briton” by birth but an American by choice, and Myers’ “vandalism” consists of ‘mistreating’ a communion wafer.

tl;dr background:

Oh, gawd.
To him, a cracker.
To a Catholic, the consecrated host (which this was) is the body of Christ.
From my viewpoint, attending a religious service, and getting into the communion line, and taking the consecrated host, being delivered in good faith by the Parish for the purposes of communion for the faithful, taking that host for the purpose of treating it in a way that is anathema to those who belong to that religion, doesn’t deserve your scare quotes.

It was a silly, stupid, provocative, idiotic thing to do, and it was done because he HATES those believers and what they believe.

An unconsecrated wafer is just bread.
You can buy ‘em, or make your own.
But Myers sought someone to go into a Church, during a Mass, for the purpose of taking the consecrated host. And entirely different thing. I would not show such disrespect to another faith. It’s amazing to me that disrespect to the Catholic faith is just fine with some of you folks; but God forbid anyone show any disrespect for Islam.

re: #102 Stanley Sea

I can’t find it. But I read it.

re: #103 reine.de.tout

I’ll be honest with you.
I have little to no respect for religion in general.
Kind of hard to respect something that states I’m going to suffer for all eternity for not believing in it.
Sorry if this offends, but it’s how I feel.

re: #98 Cato the Elder

By the way, I’d like to recommend this page of Killgore’s, showing just how abysmally, creepily stupid Pam Geller and cohorts are.

Thanks. It’s up to almost 70 clicks. Not bad for a slow evening on a holiday weekend.

Allen Fucking Ginsburg. nambla.org

re: #105 Varek Raith

I’ll be honest with you.
I have little to no respect for religion in general.
Kind of hard to respect something that states I’m going to suffer for all eternity for not believing in it.
Sorry if this offends, but it’s how I feel.

I don’t care how you feel about religion in general.

If you invite someone to your house, and set your table with your finest silver, have you given your invitees permission to come into your house and destroy your settings?

Well, that’s what this guy did. Whether you are religious or not, it’s just wrong.

re: #90 elbruce

A pre-blessed wafer and a post-blessed wafer are two totally different things. Trying to make off with one after it’s received the eucharist blessing is a total dick move. Hardly rising to the level of a hate crime, but a dick move nonetheless.

Yep. I was Catholic, so I have experience in trying to keep the post-blessed wafer from sticking to the roof of my mouth. I don’t think I’d mess with a post-blessed one even though I’m an atheist now. I try not to offend people on purpose, unless they do it first. (It’s not exactly the Golden Rule, but maybe the Mustard Yellow Rule, at least.)

re: #98 Cato the Elder

By the way, I’d like to recommend this page of Killgore’s, showing just how abysmally, creepily stupid Pam Geller and cohorts are.

I saw it and updinged it. Good stuff, Killgore.

re: #108 reine.de.tout

I don’t care how you feel about religion in general.

If you invite someone to your house, and set your table with your finest silver, have you given your invitees permission to come into your house and destroy your settings?

Well, that’s what this guy did. Whether you are religious or not, it’s just wrong.

Oh, I agree. What he did was stupid.
However, the overreaction to what he did was far more stupid.

re: #108 reine.de.tout

I don’t care how you feel about religion in general.

If you invite someone to your house, and set your table with your finest silver, have you given your invitees permission to come into your house and destroy your settings?

Well, that’s what this guy did. Whether you are religious or not, it’s just wrong.

Just because you don’t believe it or see the value of it, doesn’t make it OK to do.

re: #111 Varek Raith

Oh, I agree. What he did was stupid.
However, the overreaction to what he did was far more stupid.

If someone comes into your house, invited by you, and steals something of great value to you, how are you going to react?

re: #113 reine.de.tout

If someone comes into your house, invited by you, and steals something of great value to you, how are you going to react?

By not sending him death threats, that’s for sure.

re: #113 reine.de.tout

If someone comes into your house, invited by you, and steals something of great value to you, how are you going to react?

re: #114 Varek Raith

By not sending him death threats, that’s for sure.

With a beating.

The French left gets pissy again.

PARIS — French trade unions protested on Saturday against a clampdown on immigrants, launching a week of action against tightening security and pension reforms on which President Nicolas Sarkozy has staked his political reputation.

Demonstrators opposed to new measures including repatriation of Rome to eastern Europe waved French flags and placards and chanted slogans including “let’s stop repression” and “no to Sarkozy’s inhumane policies.”

A column of thousands headed in bright sunshine towards Paris’s city hall, led by Rome. Thousands more rallied in Marseilles, Lyons, Bordeaux and over a hundred other cities.

“This weekend’s demonstrations will be a first indicator of the country’s mood during this turbulent return to work for politicians,” the left-leaning Liberation newspaper said in an editorial.

Critics see the expulsions as part of a drive by Sarkozy to revive his popularity before 2012 elections and divert attention from painful pension reforms and spending cuts.

Saturday’s protests also target the revocation of French nationality for immigrants found guilty of attacking police officers.

I don’t know why anyone has a problem with this one. If you let someone in to your country and they then process to shoot at cops or try to firebomb a squad car, by all means throw them out.

re: #107 Cannadian Club Akbar

Allen Fucking Ginsburg. [Link: www.nambla.org…]

Well, in keeping with the conver, holy moly.

re: #107 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yeah, I’m with you. Fuck that guy.

re: #90 elbruce

A pre-blessed wafer and a post-blessed wafer are two totally different things. Trying to make off with one after it’s received the eucharist blessing is a total dick move. Hardly rising to the level of a hate crime, but a dick move nonetheless.

Yeah I’d have to agree with that. I thought this was regarding something that occurred outside of a church. It’s prankish and immature when you come down to it. A bit like disturbing the peace or if someone walked into an atheist meeting to perform a similar prank say with a book written by Hitchens. Additionally these silly moves make atheists look bad.

Heh, heh, heh.

I’m a widdle atheist and I’m going to sneak into a mosque Catholic church and steal a Koran consecrated host and then take it home and scoff at it and see if anyone gets upset.

Anyone see a difference here?

Because I don’t.

See what I mean.

re: #116 Dark_Falcon

The French left gets pissy again.

I don’t know why anyone has a problem with this one. If you let someone in to your country and they then process to shoot at cops or try to firebomb a squad car, by all means throw them out.

I could see having a predefined period of conditional immigration, but in the long run if you give somebody citizenship then they should be subject to the same rules and legal penalties as a native-born citizen. If they started deporting natural-born French people somewhere for the same crimes, that’d be fine.

re: #116 Dark_Falcon

The French left gets pissy again.

I don’t know why anyone has a problem with this one. If you let someone in to your country and they then process to shoot at cops or try to firebomb a squad car, by all means throw them out.

well first off they do not just mean immigrants of two or five or even ten years, they seem to want to include even second-generation immigrants (who, not only are born nationals, but would be left stateless).
second of all: once you naturalize someone, you don’t take that nationality away anymore. I’m quite certain european law would not even allow it so it’s no danger, but I find even just the idea quite objectionable (and I’m not exactly on the political left).

secondly their deportation of Roma is quite inhumane and has had this debate riled up quite highly in France already.

the way in which France casually discriminates based on race nowadays I would be surprised if this were the last protest you hear of.

I would have no problem with religion if it just left me the hell alone.
But it doesn’t.
We have Rs trying to ram their religious values down our throats.
We have people, uninvited, knocking on doors trying to save souls from the hell of their religion.
We have religious leaders, in this county, supporting the death penalty for gays in Africa.
We have religious leaders, the Pope, lying about condoms in Africa.
We have religious leaders, Imams, saying it’s okay to kill infidels.
Etc.
So, yeah, I get pissy about it.

re: #116 Dark_Falcon

I don’t get France’s immigration policies. Does anybody get France’s immigration policies?

In the last couple weeks, they’ve been going through these “camps”, as I saw described, of Bucharest immigrants and basically forcing them all out. Why is do they live like this?

Roma Camp in France
latimes.com

This is third world stuff. And they wonder why they have rioting, looting and trouble?

re: #120 Cato the Elder

Heh, heh, heh.

I’m a widdle atheist and I’m going to sneak into a mosque Catholic church and steal a Koran consecrated host and then take it home and scoff at it and see if anyone gets upset.

Anyone see a difference here?

Because I don’t.

I don’t need to sneak into a Church or a Mosque to scoff at it.
I can do it from the comfort of my home.

Heh, heh, heh.

I’m another widdle atheist. Watch me sneak into a synagogue, walk out with a crate of Seder wine, get drunk with my widdle atheist buddies, and piss on a Torah.

Same thing.

re: #127 Cato the Elder

Heh, heh, heh.

I’m another widdle atheist. Watch me sneak into a synagogue, walk out with a crate of Seder wine, get drunk with my widdle atheist buddies, and piss on a Torah.

Same thing.

and it doesn’t even take algebra. you must be the scum of society.

/

Somehow I get the feeling this going to last another 4 hours. It may even include an algebra test and a moonbat test.

/

re: #122 elbruce

I could see having a predefined period of conditional immigration, but in the long run if you give somebody citizenship then they should be subject to the same rules and legal penalties as a native-born citizen. If they started deporting natural-born French people somewhere for the same crimes, that’d be fine.

I don’t agree. Someone allowed in should be removed if they demonstrate themselves unfit for citizenship. Firing on police officers is a clear sign someone is not a proper citizen.

re: #129 Gus 802

Somehow I get the feeling this going to last another 4 hours. It may even include an algebra test and a moonbat test.

/

Nah, I’ve got that little rant out of my system.

re: #124 Varek Raith

Wait, you’re the lady at the 1:03 mark of this video, aren’t you? NSFW
:P

Reine, I’m sorry for being such an ass.

re: #130 Dark_Falcon

I don’t agree. Someone allowed in should be removed if they demonstrate themselves unfit for citizenship. Firing on police officers is a clear sign someone is not a proper citizen.

yes. and then we put them in prison. like every citizen.
this is pure racism. we put boundaries on immigration for good reason; but once someone is in they are not to be treated as a second class citizen for any reason, in any way. equal treatment, that sort of lefty stuff. /

re: #125 marjoriemoon

I don’t get France’s immigration policies. Does anybody get France’s immigration policies?

In the last couple weeks, they’ve been going through these “camps”, as I saw described, of Bucharest immigrants and basically forcing them all out. Why is do they live like this?

Roma Camp in France
[Link: www.latimes.com…]

This is third world stuff. And they wonder why they have rioting, looting and trouble?

The Roma are widely disliked in Europe. It’s a complicated situation, but I can clearly say they are seen as undesirables.

re: #130 Dark_Falcon

I don’t agree. Someone allowed in should be removed if they demonstrate themselves unfit for citizenship. Firing on police officers is a clear sign someone is not a proper citizen.

So once you are a citizen, then break the law (against the police, oh my) you lose the ability to be treated under the rule of law? i.e. punished & sentenced?

You just get kicked out because you are “new”

Bullshit. And I’m glad we are talking about France.

re: #131 Varek Raith

Nah, I’ve got that little rant out of my system.

Yeah. Sometimes it’s the widdle things.

re: #132 Slumbering Behemoth

Wait, you’re the lady at the 1:03 mark of this video, aren’t you? NSFW
:P

Oh, man, lol.

Darn those anarchists.

re: #134 ThomasLite

yes. and then we put them in prison. like every citizen.
this is pure racism. we put boundaries on immigration for good reason; but once someone is in they are not to be treated as a second class citizen for any reason, in any way. equal treatment, that sort of lefty stuff. /

Its not racism. It’s saying “If you come into our country and then shit on our laws and values, out you go!”

re: #135 Dark_Falcon

The Roma are widely disliked in Europe. It’s a complicated situation, but I can clearly say they are seen as undesirables.

And that is not complicated. It’s wrong, deadly, and historically fucked.

Undesirables.

Oh D_F.

re: #135 Dark_Falcon

The Roma are widely disliked in Europe. It’s a complicated situation, but I can clearly say they are seen as undesirables.

yes. they seem to be, indeed.

now would you agree that that is an unacceptable way to classify a group of people as a whole, for sure?

Dammit.
I’ve said things I shouldn’t have.

re: #124 Varek Raith

Nice young couple showed up at my door the other day to invite me to their church on Sunday morning. All I could think was “man, that wife of yours is goooooood looking”. I consider myself a believer, but I may end up in hell anyway.

Weird.

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

Its not racism. It’s saying “If you come into our country and then shit on our laws and values, out you go!”

well, if that’s what you want to do, fine. institute a protracted, say, 10 year immigration period during which one does not yet receive citizenship. that might, just *might* allow for what you suggest.
once someone takes up a different nationality they take up a different life. they agree to subject themselves to the laws and regulations of their new country, and they build a new life there.
they make new friends. absorb a different culture. build a new life for themselves.

and yes. sometimes that goes wrong. but whatever way you put that, it never ever allows you to treat one citizen differently from another.

I understand it’s easy to go with a gut feeling and “just kick someone out”, it’s just fundamentally wrong (as with plenty peoples’ gut feeling when pertaining to either immigration or criminal law - let alone a combination of both).

if you feel the criminal justice system is not up to the task; improve it.
in a NON-discriminatory manner.

re: #144 Varek Raith

Dammit.
I’ve said things I shouldn’t have.

Your allowed to be angry about religion. Lots of people are angry about religion.

re: #143 ThomasLite

yes. they seem to be, indeed.

now would you agree that that is an unacceptable way to classify a group of people as a whole, for sure?

Yes, I would. I need to point out that I said they “are seen as undesirables”. I didn’t say I agreed with that characterization.

re: #144 Varek Raith

Dammit.
I’ve said things I shouldn’t have.

No you didn’t. You are allowed to your opinion, even if it doesn’t jibe with other’s. (hello!) Chill.

re: #148 marjoriemoon

Your allowed to be angry about religion. Lots of people are angry about religion.

hell, plenty of religious people are angry about religion the way it is practiced by certain fanatics.
or about painted with the same broad brush as those, for that matter.

re: #124 Varek Raith

I would have no problem with religion if it just left me the hell alone.
But it doesn’t.
We have Rs trying to ram their religious values down our throats.
We have people, uninvited, knocking on doors trying to save souls from the hell of their religion.
We have religious leaders, in this county, supporting the death penalty for gays in Africa.
We have religious leaders, the Pope, lying about condoms in Africa.
We have religious leaders, Imams, saying it’s okay to kill infidels.
Etc.
So, yeah, I get pissy about it.

yes, and plenty other groups have done plenty objectionable things.
the point with ideologies is that, when taken to their extremes, they all stink in the end. nothing special about religion in that regard. sheesh.

re: #149 Dark_Falcon

Yes, I would. I need to point out that I said they “are seen as undesirables”. I didn’t say I agreed with that characterization.

okay, then I misunderstood. that’s good to hear. it just sounded a bit scary on first glance.

re: #151 ThomasLite

When I first met Mr. Moon, he was agnostic. Now he’s an all out heathen atheist. But he’s MY heathen atheist.

He was traumatized by some corporal punishment experiences in parochial school, from what I gather. So I get it. It’s a shame to me, because it ruins one’s understanding of God which is often mixed up in a lot of wrong stuff.

Why do I bother.

re: #153 Gus 802

Why do I bother.

What’s up?

re: #154 Varek Raith

What’s up?

Don’t want to talk about it here. It’s related to something I posted earlier and deleted. Some people are just way to overbearing and self-centered.

re: #141 Stanley Sea

So I’m guessing that Europe skips over this little bit of history.

en.wikipedia.org

This just convinces me that we are ahead of Europe in the matters of ethnic and religious tolerance. A great reason to be nationalist about my country.

re: #155 Gus 802

Don’t want to talk about it here. It’s related to something I posted earlier and deleted. Some people are just way to overbearing and self-centered.

Understood.

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

Its not racism. It’s saying “If you come into our country and then shit on our laws and values, out you go!”

It’s saying that naturalized citizens are a separate legal class, subject to different rules, than natural born citizens. It isn’t particularly racist, since it would apply to someone regardless of where they came from. But neither would such a rule uphold the principle of equal protection under the law, which IMO is about as important as democracy itself.

re: #157 Varek Raith

Understood.

Made me think of this:

Youtube Video

re: #158 elbruce

It’s saying that naturalized citizens are a separate legal class, subject to different rules, than natural born citizens. It isn’t particularly racist, since it would apply to someone regardless of where they came from. But neither would such a rule uphold the principle of equal protection under the law, which IMO is about as important as democracy itself.

Actually, the US also allows for the revocation of naturalized citizenship. It’s not a separate class so much as a statement that those allowed to stay can still be sent back if they commit certain types of crime. These crimes should be limited to severe offenses, but trying to kill a police officer surely qualifies.

re: #156 ProLifeLiberal

So I’m guessing that Europe skips over this little bit of history.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

This just convinces me that we are ahead of Europe in the matters of ethnic and religious tolerance. A great reason to be nationalist about my country.

Obdicut’s wife iirc, is a decendant of Roma. Wish he was here, and hope this topic is brought up again to get his input.

To read that Sarkozy is doing this maybe because of elections? To me, that is very very scary.

Image: simpsons_comic_book_guy.jpg

re: #133 Varek Raith

Reine, I’m sorry for being such an ass.

re: #144 Varek Raith

Dammit.
I’ve said things I shouldn’t have.

No, no.
Wasn’t you, really.
I had to log off or say things I would deeply regret.

I do try to respect what others own or believe, even if it’s something that has no value to ME personally, and I try to act accordingly. I just wish people weren’t so dismissive of Myers’ actions on that - he solicited someone to go to a Mass, and take something of value to the congregation, for the purpose of demeaning it.

If someone did that to something of yours that you valued, you would call the police, you would call the person a thief, outright, no quotes around it, and action would be taken. The action taken on this situation was everybody pokes fun of the icky Catholics for reacting. So be it.

re: #159 Gus 802

should I be nervous? Or just the thought is narcissistic.

re: #164 Stanley Sea

should I be nervous? Or just the thought is narcissistic.

Nervous? No. It was nothing. I’m probably going to log off here in a bit. Not getting any mojo here tonight.

re: #161 Stanley Sea

I’ll be sure to bring this subject up again when I Obdicut on again. Sarkozy’s actions, if the allegations are true, makes what’s going on right now with the Republicans look tiny in comparison.

re: #165 Gus 802

Aww. I like ya, Gus.

_{What? No, you can’t have any of my mojo!}

re: #160 Dark_Falcon

Actually, the US also allows for the revocation of naturalized citizenship. It’s not a separate class so much as a statement that those allowed to stay can still be sent back if they commit certain types of crime. These crimes should be limited to severe offenses, but trying to kill a police officer surely qualifies.

Involuntarily Losing Your US Citizenship (Denaturalization)

Both the State Department and the USCIS have specific laws and regulations they must follow in determining whether someone’s US citizenship should be taken away.

1. Convicted For An Act Of Treason Against The United States

2. Holding A Policy Level Position In A Foreign Country

3. Serving In Your Native Country’s Armed Forces If That Country Is Engaged In Hostilities Or At War With The United States [I didn’t edit this one, because it’s interesting and maybe more applicable recently]

If your native country is engaged in hostile actions or is at war with America you need to be extremely careful. The US government will attempt to take away your US citizenship if they find out you are either aiding or serving in your native country’s armed forces in any capacity. Alternatively, the US government could try to nail you with a treason conviction and then strip you of your US citizenship.

4. Serving In Your Native Country’s Armed Forces As An Officer Or A Non-Commissioned Officer

5. Lying To The USCIS During The Naturalization Process

Not on par to lawbreaking against the cops. Just isn’t. Especially if said lawbreaking attack on police is in form of a protest against something.

Now, I know we’re talking about FRANCE here, but I automatically apply to the US. So, you are stopped by an asshole cop and you resist? Your citizenship is not in jeopardy?

No.

re: #166 ProLifeLiberal

I’ll be sure to bring this subject up again when I Obdicut on again. Sarkozy’s actions, if the allegations are true, makes what’s going on right now with the Republicans look tiny in comparison.

SERIOUSLY. And this is the first time I’ve seen it brought up. Of course I may have missed it, but damn.

re: #155 Gus 802

Don’t want to talk about it here. It’s related to something I posted earlier and deleted. Some people are just way to overbearing and self-centered.

You deleted your Page because of widdle ol’ me? Didn’t know I had that kinda power. I’ll be sure to use it more wisely in the future.

Silly. Post it again, I won’t say a thing. There was nothing essentially wrong with your post.

re: #105 Varek Raith

I’ll be honest with you.
I have little to no respect for religion in general.
Kind of hard to respect something that states I’m going to suffer for all eternity for not believing in it.
Sorry if this offends, but it’s how I feel.

One of the least well kept secrets here in the UK is that trainee priests on retreat often have ‘naughty moments’ involving large scale ‘food fights’ with the communion host.

Given the circumstances, I expect alcohol may be involved too.

re: #171 Jimmah

One of the least well kept secrets here in the UK is that trainee priests on retreat often have ‘naughty moments’ involving large scale ‘food fights’ with the communion host.

Given the circumstances, I expect alcohol may be involved too.

Sounds like just the kind of atheist urban legend that I’ve come to look forward to at LGF.

re: #172 Cato the Elder

Sounds like just the kind of atheist urban legend that I’ve come to look forward to at LGF.

Catholics in the UK have a long history of having a sense of humour about their religion. For many of us of course, it’s a slippery slope to atheism (the horror!).

re: #160 Dark_Falcon

Actually, the US also allows for the revocation of naturalized citizenship. It’s not a separate class so much as a statement that those allowed to stay can still be sent back if they commit certain types of crime. These crimes should be limited to severe offenses, but trying to kill a police officer surely qualifies.

Well, I’m agin’ it. It really does create two classes of citizenship. One type of person faces one type of sentence for the same crime, another type of person faces another type of sentence. That’s separate classes of people under the law.

Another thing is, deportation for serious crimes might or might not be harsher than punishing them locally: “You mean I can kill a cop and the worst thing that happens to me is I get a free plane ticket to go live with my uncle in the UAE? Great!”

It basically amounts to revoking the right of the state to determine the actual punishment of an offender. The state you send them to might or might not apply a punishment that your country would find proper, whether what happens to them is too harsh or not harsh enough.

It’s also a bit odd that we’re talking about France, where other countries often find it difficult to extradite someone from for crimes committed elsewhere. Between those two policies, there’s something of a double standard going on.

re: #174 elbruce

Well, I’m agin’ it. It really does create two classes of citizenship. One type of person faces one type of sentence for the same crime, another type of person faces another type of sentence. That’s separate classes of people under the law.

Another thing is, deportation for serious crimes might or might not be harsher than punishing them locally: “You mean I can kill a cop and the worst thing that happens to me is I get a free plane ticket to go live with my uncle in the UAE? Great!”

It basically amounts to revoking the right of the state to determine the actual punishment of an offender. The state you send them to might or might not apply a punishment that your country would find proper, whether what happens to them is too harsh or not harsh enough.

It’s also a bit odd that we’re talking about France, where other countries often find it difficult to extradite someone from for crimes committed elsewhere. Between those two policies, there’s something of a double standard going on.

Well, some of it is based on a desire to get rid of those who you don’t even want in your prisons. Two of the other crimes eligible for revocation are polygamy and female genital mutilation. If it sounds like that’s aimed at a certain group of people, it is. As for which group: Starts with ‘I’, ends in a ‘slam’. That last witticism is Mark Steyn’s, not my own.

re: #173 Jimmah

Catholics in the UK have a long history of having a sense of humour about their religion. For many of us of course, it’s a slippery slope to atheism (the horror!).

I’ll bet you any amount of money they don’t hurl consecrated hosts at each other, though.

Anything else is just bread, but you would get kicked out for that.

And I am a Catholic with a notably perverse sense of humor.

re: #103 reine.de.tout

An unconsecrated wafer is just bread.
You can buy ‘em, or make your own.
But Myers sought someone to go into a Church, during a Mass, for the purpose of taking the consecrated host. And entirely different thing. I would not show such disrespect to another faith. It’s amazing to me that disrespect to the Catholic faith is just fine with some of you folks; but God forbid anyone show any disrespect for Islam.

Interestingly enough, per Benedict (nee Ratzinger)’s 2001 order mishandling of the eucharist is one of those things which the Vatican reserves to itself to investigate centrally. It was listed as a line item well above the sexual abuse of children, but the same rule applies. People in the local parish are supposed to keep quiet about it until the Vatican can investigate and make a ruling. So technically, all of the people making a big deal about what that dickwad did and sending him death threats were in direct violation of a Papal order.

re: #174 elbruce

Well, I’m agin’ it.

Seein’ as how you’re also agin Israel as a Jewish state, and lookin’ forward to it bein’ majority Arab, the fact is I don’t care what else you’re agin.

Benedict, whatever else one may have to say about him, was not “nee” Ratzinger, nor was he even née. He was né.

I hate people who use foreign languages wrong.

re: #178 Cato the Elder

Seein’ as how you’re also agin Israel as a Jewish state, and lookin’ forward to it bein’ majority Arab, the fact is I don’t care what else you’re agin.

You seem to have picked up LVQ’s habit of dragging old discussions into new ones.

Yes, I’m also agin’ dividing people out by their race/ethnicity/religion and separating them into purportedly homogenous “homeland” states.

re: #179 Cato the Elder

I hate people who use foreign languages wrong.

It would be better to hate the misuse, rather than the people.

re: #177 elbruce

Interestingly enough, per Benedict (nee Ratzinger)’s 2001 order mishandling of the eucharist is one of those things which the Vatican reserves to itself to investigate centrally. It was listed as a line item well above the sexual abuse of children, but the same rule applies. People in the local parish are supposed to keep quiet about it until the Vatican can investigate and make a ruling. So technically, all of the people making a big deal about what that dickwad did and sending him death threats were in direct violation of a Papal order.

I wouldn’t think the Code of Canon Law applies to non-Catholics. In other words the Vatican would have no authority over non-Catholics, and these investigations would be one that would involve Catholics within a congregation.

Of course anyone sending him death threats was way wrong to do so, and THAT behavior should be prosecuted, if it’s possible to prosecute those sorts of threats.

So technically speaking, we had and have the right to be offended by Myers’ actions, and to make it known.

re: #180 elbruce

You seem to have picked up LVQ’s habit of dragging old discussions into new ones.

Yes, I’m also agin’ dividing people out by their race/ethnicity/religion and separating them into purportedly homogenous “homeland” states.

So what do you want to do about those awful Greeks, obstinately clinging to the outdated concept of “Greece”?

re: #176 Cato the Elder

I’ll bet you any amount of money they don’t hurl consecrated hosts at each other, though.

Au contraire, consecrated hosts are said to have superior aerodynamic properties in these situations.

As an atheist, I don’t believe a word of it though.

re: #183 Cato the Elder

So what do you want to do about those awful Greeks, obstinately clinging to the outdated concept of “Greece”?

I don’t think the history and name of the country necessarily imply that it should strive to maintain an ethnic majority of some sort.

re: #183 Cato the Elder

So what do you want to do about those awful Greeks, obstinately clinging to the outdated concept of “Greece”?

Leave him alone, Cato. Your words are getting in his way. He was trying to watch the prancing unicorns.

re: #182 reine.de.tout

I wouldn’t think the Code of Canon Law applies to non-Catholics. In other words the Vatican would have no authority over non-Catholics, and these investigations would be one that would involve Catholics within a congregation.

Of course anyone sending him death threats was way wrong to do so, and THAT behavior should be prosecuted, if it’s possible to prosecute those sorts of threats.

So technically speaking, we had and have the right to be offended by Myers’ actions, and to make it known.

I’m assuming that the people sending death threats were Catholic. As such they were in violation not only of the local legal code but also of the Vatican edict.

re: #187 elbruce

I’m assuming that the people sending death threats were Catholic. As such they were in violation not only of the local legal code but also of the Vatican edict.

Violation of legal code, sure.
And the Ten Commandments, and all sorts of other things.

However:
I was trying to say that the Vatican would have no authority to investigate Myers ; the investigations for which people are supposed to keep their mouths shut involve charges against, and investigations of, Catholics. Therefore, reasonable expressions of distaste regarding Myers’ actions are in no way a violation of any damned thing.

re: #186 Dark_Falcon

Leave him alone, Cato. Your words are getting in his way. He was trying to watch the prancing unicorns.

Pretty much. A one-state solution with a commitment to equal treatment under the law for all residents regardless of their ethnicity or religion has been forced into “unicorn” status at this point. I recognize that both sides have allowed themselves to become convinced that they can’t live together. Which is exactly why I have so little hope that their disputes are ever going to get resolved.

It’s odd how often we’re told by our leaders that policy X is right for this place and policy Y is right for that place, without being told what the significant difference is between the places. One example I can think of is how we trade with China but refuse to trade with Cuba. Another is how we were told that a one-state solution was the best thing for Iraq but a two-state solution is the best thing for Israel.

re: #185 elbruce

I don’t think the history and name of the country necessarily imply that it should strive to maintain an ethnic majority of some sort.

Political correctness gone mad.

Denmark = “We’re not really Danes! It’s just a name.”

Ditto France, Germany, Sweden, Thailand, China, Japan, Korea, and Iceland. Oh, and the Scots. And the goddamned Irish with their goddamned right of return (same law as in Israel).

I suppose the Tibetans are racists too, for wanting to keep Tibet Tibetan?

I see.

re: #188 reine.de.tout

Violation of legal code, sure.
And the Ten Commandments, and all sorts of other things.

However:
I was trying to say that the Vatican would have no authority to investigate Myers ; the investigations for which people are supposed to keep their mouths shut involve charges against, and investigations of, Catholics. Therefore, reasonable expressions of distaste regarding Myers’ actions are in no way a violation of any damned thing.

The Vatican might reserve the right to investigate the circumstances under which he was allowed to take Communion in the first place. The investigation would center on the situation, not necessarily about this or that person involved. Since it’s on the list of things that the Vatican reserves the right to investigate, and which Catholics aren’t supposed to talk about under threat of excommunication, running around and yelling about it constitutes a violation of the order.

Of course, it’s a really stupid order, and one which has has contributed significantly to the Church’s legal issues regarding child abuse.

re: #189 elbruce

Pretty much. A one-state solution with a commitment to equal treatment under the law for all residents regardless of their ethnicity or religion has been forced into “unicorn” status at this point. I recognize that both sides have allowed themselves to become convinced that they can’t live together. Which is exactly why I have so little hope that their disputes are ever going to get resolved.

It’s odd how often we’re told by our leaders that policy X is right for this place and policy Y is right for that place, without being told what the significant difference is between the places. One example I can think of is how we trade with China but refuse to trade with Cuba. Another is how we were told that a one-state solution was the best thing for Iraq but a two-state solution is the best thing for Israel.

For the bolded part, we have another fantasy creature:
The Magical Balance Fairy. She uses the sweet mist of Hopeychange to mask the Jewish pleas for peace and sharing going back to the 1920s and the violent rejection of these by the Arabs. She makes it seem like both sides are to blame, when in fact blame is concentrated overwhelmingly on the Arab side of the scale.

For part in italics, that had to do with the reality of international boundaries and Iraq’s area. To have divided Iraq would have been to leave it prey to Iranian depredations. There was also the fact that Turkey will not tolerate an independent Kurdish state, because their own Kurds would try to join it. That is not fair to the Kurds, but since the Turks have the power: It’s like that, and that’s the way it is.

Speaking of Greece:

Experts see trouble ahead for developed world

What about Greece, whose near-default four months ago rattled the nerves of investors around the globe?

“Greece will not make it,” said Sinn. He said the world can either subsidize Athens indefinitely, force a degree of austerity that actually risks “civil war,” or — in what he suggested was the least bad option — encourage Greece to restore its drachma currency despite the domestic banking collapse that could well result.

Maybe the world could just carve up Greece into little bits (after all, it has quite a few islands) and sell off the parts?

re: #180 elbruce

Yes, I’m also agin’ dividing people out by their race/ethnicity/religion and separating them into purportedly homogenous “homeland” states.

When you put it like that, it does seem a tad problematic to say the least. I’m sure many if not most countries were founded on at least a few bad ideas though. I’d never challenge a country’s existence based on that, (not saying you would either) but I think I’m in agreement with you that all countries should be encouraged to strive towards genuine pluralism and openness.

re: #190 Cato the Elder

Political correctness gone mad.

Denmark = “We’re not really Danes! It’s just a name.”

Ditto France, Germany, Sweden, Thailand, China, Japan, Korea, and Iceland. Oh, and the Scots. And the goddamned Irish with their goddamned right of return (same law as in Israel).

I suppose the Tibetans are racists too, for wanting to keep Tibet Tibetan?

I see.

Wanting to keep “X” “X-ish” is an expression of xenophobia wherever it happens. That’s what xenophobes always say.

Look, you’re literally advocating for racial separatism here. That’s what you’re doing. The argument you’re making would be right at home if it were posted at Stormfront.

PS: does the Irish law require that the person who wants to move there be Catholic? Or that it include anyone who converts to Roman Catholicism? If so, you might have a good analogy. But then I’d just state my opposition to that law too.

re: #192 Dark_Falcon

For the bolded part, we have another fantasy creature:
The Magical Balance Fairy.

So, Israel supports a one-state solution…? Cool.

OK, now I’m a Stormfront guy.

ElBruce, I sincerely hope your daughter grows up to be a Zionist. That is my heartfelt wish for you.

re: #192 Dark_Falcon

For the bolded part, we have another fantasy creature:
The Magical Balance Fairy. She uses the sweet mist of Hopeychange to mask the Jewish pleas for peace and sharing going back to the 1920s and the violent rejection of these by the Arabs. She makes it seem like both sides are to blame, when in fact blame is concentrated overwhelmingly on the Arab side of the scale.

I didn’t see where elbruce said or implied anything like that, DF.

My take on this is that there won’t be any resolution of this conflict based on forcing one side or the other to accept the blame for all that has happened in the past.

Maybe we’ll one day see a popular peace movement composed of people from both sides who are just sick of the violence become big enough to convince the terrorists and warmongers that it’s time to give up their ‘struggle’, as happened in Northern Ireland. That might seem a long way away right now, but remember that people used to think that peace in NI was an impossibility, for similar reasons.

How about a “one-state solution” for the world?

The most disgusting, obscene little ditty I ever heard in my life was broadcast to the world during Saint Reagan’s reign, as part of the Los Angeles Olympics. Its refrain went:

“I want a world that’s just like America.
I want a world that’s just like the USA.”

I fucking well do not.

re: #192 Dark_Falcon

For part in italics, that had to do with the reality of international boundaries and Iraq’s area. To have divided Iraq would have been to leave it prey to Iranian depredations. There was also the fact that Turkey will not tolerate an independent Kurdish state, because their own Kurds would try to join it. That is not fair to the Kurds, but since the Turks have the power: It’s like that, and that’s the way it is.

I’m sure we could support whatever state was closest to Iran to a degree that they wouldn’t want to risk it.

It’s possible that having a Kurdistan within Iraq’s current borders might be more convenient for Turkey, since their Southern Kurds would have a place to go to. Obviously, such a Kurdistan would still want to expand into Turkey, but at least they’d have a specific country to argue about it with, without dragging the rest of Iraq into their issue.

The only problem with the three-state solution that I know of was unequal distribution of oil fields. But that wasn’t spelled out very clearly. I’d just rather have had the leadership involved take the time to explain it rather than have us try to figure it out later.

re: #196 elbruce

So, Israel supports a one-state solution…? Cool.

At one time, they did. And in 1947, they pleaded with the Arabs of Tel Aviv to stay there and live with the Jews. The Arabs refused, and did so again in Jaffa, fearful of being seen as collaborators or just plain hating the Jews. Here, read this and you’ll gain some understanding:

The Nakba Obsession by Sol Stern.

Never thought I’d see the day when standing up for Israel on this blog would get me compared - with total impunity - to a member of France’s Front National and a writer for Stormfront.

I haz a sad.

re: #202 Cato the Elder

Never thought I’d see the day when standing up for Israel on this blog would get me compared - with total impunity - to a member of France’s Front National and a writer for Stormfront.

I haz a sad.

I’ll see that sad and raise you another.

re: #198 Jimmah

May I just highlight the part I so believe is key?

I didn’t see where elbruce said or implied anything like that, DF.

My take on this is that there won’t be any resolution of this conflict based on forcing one side or the other to accept the blame for all that has happened in the past.

Maybe we’ll one day see a popular peace movement composed of people from both sides who are just sick of the violence become big enough to convince the terrorists and warmongers that it’s time to give up their ‘struggle’, as happened in Northern Ireland. That might seem a long way away right now, but remember that people used to think that peace in NI was an impossibility, for similar reasons.

What I see, is people who are in no way going to do this, and that is what’s most messed up to me. Yes, you are allowed based upon the past to believe what you believe, but to characterize the future this way?

I went to edit a bit and realized I hit post. Oh well.

The future is that which you will not live to see.

Given the discussion here today, I wish I were even older, so that I’d see less of it.

re: #203 marjoriemoon

I’ll see that sad and raise you another.

And myself, yet another.

re: #206 Cato the Elder

The future is that which you will not live to see.

Given the discussion here today, I wish I were even older, so that I’d see less of it.

Doesn’t stop me from caring. And you know how it goes, you’ll live a long time and see a lot more than you wish.

re: #199 Cato the Elder

How about a “one-state solution” for the world?

The most disgusting, obscene little ditty I ever heard in my life was broadcast to the world during Saint Reagan’s reign, as part of the Los Angeles Olympics. Its refrain went:

“I want a world that’s just like America.
I want a world that’s just like the USA.”

I fucking well do not.

Well, I believe that the founding principles of Democracy are philosophically, rather than culturally, valid. If they aren’t good enough to apply anywhere, then we need to go back to the drawing board with them.

re: #202 Cato the Elder

Never thought I’d see the day when standing up for Israel on this blog would get me compared - with total impunity - to a member of France’s Front National and a writer for Stormfront.

I haz a sad.

You weren’t “standing up for Israel” at that point. You were standing up for segregating all nations based on ethnicity, race, and/or religion. Quite explicitly.

re: #206 Cato the Elder

The future is that which you will not live to see.

Given the discussion here today, I wish I were even older, so that I’d see less of it.

Israel is a country in constant flux. Folks who would compare it to the U.S., a country with no war on its border, or even places like Iraq or Afghanistan simply do not understand the conflict and yet speak of it with such authority.

All conflicts are different, the histories, the people, the cultures and have their own unique issues to deal with. (I know you know all that.)

re: #206 Cato the Elder

Given the discussion here today, I wish I were even older, so that I’d see less of it.

Yeah, who brought it up, anyways?

re: #178 Cato the Elder

Seein’ as how you’re also agin Israel as a Jewish state, and lookin’ forward to it bein’ majority Arab, the fact is I don’t care what else you’re agin.

Go complain at that guy.

re: #210 elbruce

You weren’t “standing up for Israel” at that point. You were standing up for segregating all nations based on ethnicity, race, and/or religion. Quite explicitly.

Like you have any fucking notion of reality on which to base an opinion about me, or what I stand for.

Fuck you and your unicorn too.

re: #211 marjoriemoon

Can I ask an honest q? Do you dislike Haaretz as a news source? I made it a point to learn learn learn, and have been reading - every night. My basic point is lefty here, lefty there. Please don’t take my asking as a negative (dang LGF is pretty scary this way)

re: #213 Cato the Elder

Like you have any fucking notion of reality on which to base an opinion about me, or what I stand for.

Fuck you and your unicorn too.

I didn’t post an opinion about you. I characterized your line of argumentation:

re: #195 elbruce

Look, you’re literally advocating for racial separatism here. That’s what you’re doing. The argument you’re making would be right at home if it were posted at Stormfront.

Taking offense at straw-man distortions doesn’t constitute stating your case.

re: #211 marjoriemoon

Israel is a country in constant flux. Folks who would compare it to the U.S., a country with no war on its border, or even places like Iraq or Afghanistan simply do not understand the conflict and yet speak of it with such authority.

I’t most probably that the “maybe Israel should do X instead of Y” crowd and the “everything they do is right and all problems are somebody else’s fault” crowd are both speaking above our level of knowledge and authority.

I recognize that what Israel has to deal with is a balance between practicality and ideals. It likely wouldn’t be safe or workable to institute the sort of things I’m talking about immediately or unilaterally. My main concern here is whether the ideals being put into the equation as a long term goal are the philosophically correct ones.

re: #210 elbruce

And we’re back to you putting words in Cato’s mouth.

It was horseshit last night, and it’s horseshit again tonight.

re: #215 elbruce

I didn’t post an opinion about you. I characterized your line of argumentation:

re: #195 elbruce

Taking offense at straw-man distortions doesn’t constitute stating your case.

Apparently stating the case for Israel (or Tibet) now gets one characterized as a xenophobe here, with no serious reply allowed.

Fine. I’m a xenophobe. Go away happy.

re: #217 Dark_Falcon

My eyeballs are getting dusty from all the rolling.

re: #219 jaunte

My eyeballs are getting dusty from all the rolling.

Well how do you break through?

re: #220 Stanley Sea

Sorry, need more detail in the question. Break through what?

re: #221 jaunte

Sorry, need more detail in the question. Break through what?

The opposition thoughts of the “moonbats”

or whatever you were rolling your eyes too. ?? :)

re: #217 Dark_Falcon

And we’re back to you putting words in Cato’s mouth.

Just these words:

re: #190 Cato the Elder

Political correctness gone mad.

Denmark = “We’re not really Danes! It’s just a name.”

Ditto France, Germany, Sweden, Thailand, China, Japan, Korea, and Iceland. Oh, and the Scots. And the goddamned Irish with their goddamned right of return (same law as in Israel).

I suppose the Tibetans are racists too, for wanting to keep Tibet Tibetan?

I see.

I think it’s a fair characterization to label such a policy as universal xenophobia, if not full blown segregation.

Characterizing an argument as being consistent with other arguments (which may come from famously disreputable sources) is not the same thing as “putting words in” anybody’s “mouth.” I’m not saying he said anything he didn’t say. Nor am I paraphrasing his arguments back to him, but am rather sticking to a consistent policy of using the “quote” feature generously provided to us by Charles.

I have no problem with Cato. Or you. I have in the past, and look forward in the future to agreeing with both of you on other subjects.

But I strongly disagree with this line of argumentation, and I think it’s worth pointing out that it’s highly consistent with the international policies proposed by virulent racists everywhere.

re: #214 Stanley Sea

Can I ask an honest q? Do you dislike Haaretz as a news source? I made it a point to learn learn learn, and have been reading - every night. My basic point is lefty here, lefty there. Please don’t take my asking as a negative (dang LGF is pretty scary this way)

Oh I never take that as a negative.

I think Haaretz is more liberal, more anti-war, although that’s not really a good description either, while Jpost is more conservative, like no land for peace deals, etc. But both have equal commentaries, too. So it’s good to read both. And there’s a lot of culture in both papers. I gravitate to Jpost and Auretz Sheva which is Israeli National News (israelnationalnews.com

Here’s a fun one. Jerusalemonline.com That’s a live feed. That’s also pretty even, left/right, but probably leans conservative.

I was just listening and it’s all pretty depressing.

re: #218 Cato the Elder

Apparently stating the case for Israel (or Tibet) now gets one characterized as a xenophobe here, with no serious reply allowed.

Only Charles gets to determine what people are “allowed” to say here.

Tibet and Israel have a number completely different issues; you’d have to drill down somewhat to explain what your point of comparison is. As I support equality under the law and religious freedom, I think I’d land on the right side of the Tibetan issue overall.

re: #216 elbruce

I’t most probably that the “maybe Israel should do X instead of Y” crowd and the “everything they do is right and all problems are somebody else’s fault” crowd are both speaking above our level of knowledge and authority.

I recognize that what Israel has to deal with is a balance between practicality and ideals. It likely wouldn’t be safe or workable to institute the sort of things I’m talking about immediately or unilaterally. My main concern here is whether the ideals being put into the equation as a long term goal are the philosophically correct ones.

I’m having a hard time figuring out what you’re talking about. You move the goalposts around quite a bit.

What sort of things exactly are you talking about when you say they wouldn’t be working immediately or unilaterally.

And now my stand on Israel is “consistent with the international policies proposed by virulent racists everywhere”.

Good. I’m implicitly a racist now, too. I’ve always wondered what it would feel like to go viral.

re: #222 Stanley Sea

The opposition thoughts of the “moonbats”

or whatever you were rolling your eyes too. ?? :)

It seems that Israel is a particular focus for some people who want to talk about national groups behaving in an unwelcoming or nationalistic way. That tends to raise my suspicions.

re: #224 marjoriemoon

Oh I never take that as a negative.

I think Haaretz is more liberal, more anti-war, although that’s not really a good description either, while Jpost is more conservative, like no land for peace deals, etc. But both have equal commentaries, too. So it’s good to read both. And there’s a lot of culture in both papers. I gravitate to Jpost and Auretz Sheva which is Israeli National News ([Link: www.israelnationalnews.com…]

Here’s a fun one. [Link: www.Jerusalemonline.com…] That’s a live feed. That’s also pretty even, left/right, but probably leans conservative.

I was just listening and it’s all pretty depressing.

Thank you MM!! I need to mark these on my iphone because (tmi) that’s my last read of the day, lying in bed learning about the situ. thank you.

re: #223 elbruce

I don’t think its possible to have a consistent, universal policy on such matters, because situations do differ. In Nigeria, for example, it is in fact bad that Christian towns often maintain a “no Muslims” policy and enforce it violently. But such policies are sadly needed, due to the fact that far too many Muslims in that country subscribe to Islamist doctrines and support the introduction of Sharia. Given those facts, such policies of exclusion become essential. They are an evil, but a necessary evil. The same situation prevails in Israel: The Palestinians have to be kept away because too many of them are terror minded.

re: #229 Stanley Sea

Thank you MM!! I need to mark these on my iphone because (tmi) that’s my last read of the day, lying in bed learning about the situ. thank you.

Egads, watch the Simpsons, girl! You need something silly before bed. I can’t do news before bed. Angers up the blood.

re: #228 jaunte

I think Israel may have been brought into this thread by Cato in 178

But I may be mistaken.

re: #227 Cato the Elder

And now my stand on Israel is “consistent with the international policies proposed by virulent racists everywhere”.

Good. I’m implicitly a racist now, too. I’ve always wondered what it would feel like to go viral.

For the third time this thread, I’m characterizing your line of argumentation, not you. If you can’t discuss politics on the Internet without taking everything personally, maybe you shouldn’t. If you’re using all of this personal outrage as some sort of passive-aggressive tactic, then you definitely shouldn’t.

re: #232 ozbloke

Yes, the discussion is from a previous thread.

re: #234 jaunte

Yes, I followed it last night, well last night for me GMT+10:00

Thank you

re: #228 jaunte

It seems that Israel is a particular focus for some people who want to talk about national groups behaving in an unwelcoming or nationalistic way. That tends to raise my suspicions.

Imagine there’s no country
It’s easy if you try

and all that.

God bless John Lennon for making a catalog of music to endure through the ages. And though I appreciate the spirit of “Imagine”, some of the lyrics make me cranky.

re: #228 jaunte

It seems that Israel is a particular focus for some people who want to talk about national groups behaving in an unwelcoming or nationalistic way. That tends to raise my suspicions.

I get that. This blog has however, been a good place to talk about Israel specifically. It is one of the defining things I’ve seen since my arrival.

I am here, I am more interested in Israel than I ever have been (good thing) so why not talk more?

I am not diminishing the info I’ve received from SFZ. If she reads this she’ll say Sea! wtf? (I’ve received a lot of info, but obviously want more conversation)

re: #225 elbruce

Only Charles gets to determine what people are “allowed” to say here.

Tibet and Israel have a number completely different issues; you’d have to drill down somewhat to explain what your point of comparison is. As I support equality under the law and religious freedom, I think I’d land on the right side of the Tibetan issue overall.

Here’s a hint for you: If the Tibetans were in a position to hurl every single man, woman, and child of the invading Han Chinese back across their borders, and then seal the borders, I would write 150 new psalms in the style of King David in honor of that feat.

Failing that, I would applaud if they are merely able to keep Tibet majority Tibetan.

Absent the godlike ability to put all ethnicities of humans in a big bag, shake them up like different-colored marbles, and scatter them in a statistically even distribution over the face of the earth, this is the way the world works.

I like diversity among nations even more than I do among individuals. Call me old-fashioned - or whatever more scurrilous epithets you have so far held in reserve.

re: #231 marjoriemoon

Egads, watch the Simpsons, girl! You need something silly before bed. I can’t do news before bed. Angers up the blood.

ah, why is my life so? ha

re: #226 marjoriemoon

I’m having a hard time figuring out what you’re talking about. You move the goalposts around quite a bit.

What sort of things exactly are you talking about when you say they wouldn’t be working immediately or unilaterally.

If it seems like I’m moving the goalposts, it’s only because I’m getting tackled from multiple directions.

There’s the usual charge in response to the sort of things I’m talking about where somebody recharacterizes my position as “yeah sure, Israel should instantly drop all of their security efforts and allow themselves to be blown up!” [I’d like to note for the record that that particular straw-man hasn’t made an appearance in this thread.] Unilaterally doing the right thing on one side only might (is likely to be) too dangerous. It’s the difference between having a “roadmap to peace” and just declaring peace. The latter doesn’t necessarily work on the ground. It takes some patience to get to the ideal solution. I’m only proposing what I think the ideal solution to aim for should be, on its philosophical merits.

re: #237 Stanley Sea

May I second that, an upding from me…

I have found this discussion interesting and thoughtful, and for the most part respectful.

re: #233 elbruce

For the third time this thread, I’m characterizing your line of argumentation, not you. If you can’t discuss politics on the Internet without taking everything personally, maybe you shouldn’t. If you’re using all of this personal outrage as some sort of passive-aggressive tactic, then you definitely shouldn’t.

For the third time in this thread, you’re lying.

re: #240 elbruce

If it seems like I’m moving the goalposts, it’s only because I’m getting tackled from multiple directions.

There’s the usual charge in response to the sort of things I’m talking about where somebody recharacterizes my position as “yeah sure, Israel should instantly drop all of their security efforts and allow themselves to be blown up!” [I’d like to note for the record that that particular straw-man hasn’t made an appearance in this thread.] Unilaterally doing the right thing on one side only might (is likely to be) too dangerous. It’s the difference between having a “roadmap to peace” and just declaring peace. The latter doesn’t necessarily work on the ground. It takes some patience to get to the ideal solution. I’m only proposing what I think the ideal solution to aim for should be, on its philosophical merits.

But you’re not saying anything or I’m missing it, which I may regret asking…

I don’t care so much about what others thought you said, although being a part of those others, we all pretty much read the same thing.

Putting that aside, you said, “Unilaterally doing the right thing on one side only might (is likely to be) too dangerous.” What is “the right thing” you’re talking about?

re: #237 Stanley Sea

Um, Stanley: Why the downding for #230?

re: #242 Cato the Elder

Cato, could you please point out the lie for this ignoramus?
I’m not seeing it…

re: #244 Dark_Falcon

Um, Stanley: Why the downding for #230?

“But such policies are sadly needed, due to the fact that far too many Muslims in that country subscribe to Islamist doctrines and support the introduction of Sharia”.

Yes, it’s another country D_F, but that’s bs talking points that I hate to see.

re: #238 Cato the Elder

Here’s a hint for you: If the Tibetans were in a position to hurl every single man, woman, and child of the invading Han Chinese back across their borders, and then seal the borders, I would write 150 new psalms in the style of King David in honor of that feat.

Failing that, I would applaud if they are merely able to keep Tibet majority Tibetan.

I’ll grant that intentionally moving people who are loyal to one group into another group’s country is a dirty tactic, and should be opposed. I oppose China moving Chinese people into Tibet in order to intentionally change the local makeup and increase loyalty, just as I would have opposed the Ulstermen of Northern Ireland and as I oppose continued West Bank settlements. For one country to try to move their own loyalists into another country in order to support their side of a disputed ownership claim is a really fucked up tactic.

re: #238 Cato the Elder

Absent the godlike ability to put all ethnicities of humans in a big bag, shake them up like different-colored marbles, and scatter them in a statistically even distribution over the face of the earth, this is the way the world works.

God does shake the bag, a little bit every day: it’s called entropy. You can let it happen over time, or you can try to build walls to keep it out. The latter is xenophobia. Also, futile.

re: #238 Cato the Elder

I like diversity among nations even more than I do among individuals. Call me old-fashioned - or whatever more scurrilous epithets you have so far held in reserve.

“Old fashioned” sounds about right as you’ve explained your perspective so far, but in practical terms I think the implications go beyond that.

I think that it’s quite likely that sociological development in the future can lead to new forms of diversity without necessarily trying to “hold the line” to retain the old. Heritage is a cool thing, and everybody should celebrate theirs. But maintaining heritage going forward shouldn’t be the policy of any society, particularly if it restricts the rights of others.

It’s quite possible that many regions, countries or cultures have yet to burst out with new distinct and specific “flavors” of human endeavor yet to be seen. Some of the best culture historically comes out of conflict between distinct cultures. We don’t actually have to try to preserve the distinct ethnic population distrubutions of the past in order to have lots of interesting flavors blended into the world.