Overnight Open Thread
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The superior man is satisfied and composed; the mean man is always full of distress.
— Confucius
237 comments
1 |
SanFranciscoZionist Dec 5, 2010 10:51:45pm |
Reposted from the last thread:
BTW, for those who recall the discussion of the atheist propaganda billboard in New Jersey: my father, a devout Catholic, loves it. He says the picture is beautiful, and reminds him that the Christ child is coming to us, and it makes him think of stories the nuns and his mother told him when he was a little boy. Yes, there’s something at the top about myths. Whatever. It’s a beautiful billboard.
He thinks the Catholic League one is WAY too busy, and not inspirational.
| 2 |
SanFranciscoZionist Dec 5, 2010 10:55:25pm |
Also, the dating ads are getting raunchier. I now see an advertisement for the “Arab Lounge”, where you can “Meet Your Arab Princess”.
The girl in the picture has uncovered hair. And shoulders.
3 |
Eclectic Infidel Dec 5, 2010 11:18:10pm |
Which thread was this discussion on? I’ve been out of it for a bit. Especially today.
| 4 |
SanFranciscoZionist Dec 5, 2010 11:18:42pm |
re: #3 eclectic infidel
Which thread was this discussion on? I’ve been out of it for a bit. Especially today.
I don’t even recall. It was a day or two ago.
5 |
HappyWarrior Dec 5, 2010 11:22:39pm |
Not to get all sportsy but what a great game between the Steelers and Ravens tonight. This is the best rivalry in the sport and I am glad my team came out on top.
7 |
goddamnedfrank Dec 6, 2010 12:01:08am |
re: #2 SanFranciscoZionist
Also, the dating ads are getting raunchier. I now see an advertisement for the “Arab Lounge”, where you can “Meet Your Arab Princess”.
The girl in the picture has uncovered hair. And shoulders.
Sacrilicious. Maybe I’ll give it a shot, I’m done going to Damned Anonymous meetings to meet chicks, since most of those people are actual demons.
8 |
Mentis Fugit Dec 6, 2010 12:20:48am |
re: #7 goddamnedfrank
Sacrilicious. Maybe I’ll give it a shot, I’m done going to Damned Anonymous meetings to meet chicks, since most of those people are actual demons.
We tried to tell you that the etymology of “succubus” had nothing to do with how the word sounds in English, but did you listen? Oh no.
| 9 |
Eclectic Infidel Dec 6, 2010 12:28:30am |
re: #2 SanFranciscoZionist
Also, the dating ads are getting raunchier. I now see an advertisement for the “Arab Lounge”, where you can “Meet Your Arab Princess”.
The girl in the picture has uncovered hair. And shoulders.
I was pleased to observe two Arab women in the culinary program at CCSF. They wore the *complete* uniform and covered their heads. I just thought it was cool. Wish people like Geller could see that.
10 |
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light) Dec 6, 2010 12:46:52am |
re: #8 Mentis Fugit
We tried to tell you that the etymology of “succubus” had nothing to do with how the word sounds in English, but did you listen? Oh no.
Hoist by your own petard again, eh?
| 11 |
goddamnedfrank Dec 6, 2010 12:57:16am |
13 |
freetoken Dec 6, 2010 1:41:05am |
Confucius was a RINO*.
.
.
.
*Religious In Name Only
15 |
laZardo Dec 6, 2010 3:03:41am |
“The man that partakes in intercourse on grassy field gets piece on earth.” - Confucius
/well, he should have said that.
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researchok Dec 6, 2010 4:18:28am |
| 22 |
researchok Dec 6, 2010 4:31:29am |
| 23 |
freetoken Dec 6, 2010 4:37:44am |
re: #22 researchok
Or, you could go East, where apparently all the partying is going on:
Drunk elephants kill four people
About 70 elephants raided a village stockpile of fermented rice drink and got drunk on the substance.
By Thursday, the herd had left a path of destruction through the border states of West Bengal and Orissa, NY Daily News reports.
Several elephants were later found sleeping off the alcohol.
Encounters between elephants and humans are becoming increasingly common in India as the animals become more comfortable around people.
“The herds are effectively semi-urbanised,” Amirtharaj Williams of the World Wildlife Fund was quoted as saying.
“There are elephants who are getting a taste for food that humans prepare because it is tastier, stronger-smelling and often more nutritious, and that includes rice- or molasses-based drinks.
“Some go looking for it.”
24 |
Authoritarian F*ckpuddles Dec 6, 2010 4:49:17am |
Boy what a lot of snow. Schools are closing, people are being sent home from work, and public transport has given up the ghost. Here’s a satellite image of the UK under snow, from a couple of days ago (a lot more snow has fallen since):
Didn’t think I’d be posting this so early:
25 |
Wozza Matter? Dec 6, 2010 4:55:04am |
| 26 |
Wozza Matter? Dec 6, 2010 4:57:44am |
| 27 |
Wozza Matter? Dec 6, 2010 4:59:04am |
| 28 |
Wozza Matter? Dec 6, 2010 5:07:14am |
Wikileaks releases a list of critical American infrastructure overseas including chemical labs, communications sites and engineering plants in the UK.
| 30 |
Wozza Matter? Dec 6, 2010 5:14:11am |
re: #29 NJDhockeyfan
Morning. and curse you - i seem to have been going for the consecutive post record.
| 31 |
Authoritarian F*ckpuddles Dec 6, 2010 5:17:55am |
32 |
NJDhockeyfan Dec 6, 2010 5:19:29am |
re: #30 wozzablog
Morning. and curse you - i seem to have been going for the consecutive post record.
Must me the cold weather. Everyone is curled up under a blanket this morning.
34 |
Romantic Heretic Dec 6, 2010 6:19:22am |
Going from memory, never could find this quote on the Net and my Google fu sucks, tis is my favorite from Confucius.
They discovered that to order the nation, they first had to order society.
They they discovered that to order society they had to order their families.
To do that they realized they had to order themselves.
Not a terribly big fan of Confucius. He’s a prop to control freaks. But with this he hit on something wise.
35 |
darthstar Dec 6, 2010 6:38:33am |
re: #34 Romantic Heretic
Going from memory, never could find this quote on the Net and my Google fu sucks, tis is my favorite from Confucius.
Not a terribly big fan of Confucius. He’s a prop to control freaks. But with this he hit on something wise.
My favorite quotes from Confucius are I think from his teen years:
Man who stands on toilet get high on pot.Man who wrestles woman to ground finds piece on earth.
Okay, okay…those were dumb. Good morning all the same.
36 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 6:39:27am |
re: #34 Romantic Heretic
Like a lot of philosophies and political theories, Confucianism is theoretically great as long as one has perfect judgement. A lot of people who are fucked in the head think that they have ordered themselves completely well, and ordered their families likewise.
I do think his statement is quite wise.
If I had a single philosophy, it’d be “The capacity for self-criticism is the most important intellectual attribute, and the will to act on that criticism is the most important ethical attribute”.
Not as catchy.
37 |
Ding-an-sich Wannabe Dec 6, 2010 6:40:26am |
Here’s a young woman, detective from stanitsa Kushchevskaya (where 12 people were murdered recently). She recorded a message to Medvedev that was published today.
She says that she was forced to close criminal case against a person who is now one of the main suspect in the murders by her boss, the rayon prosecutor, through “oral instructions”. She describes how before these instructions she saw one of the mafiosi exiting the prosecutor’s office. Now she thinks she will be a scapegoat. Really sad.
| 38 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 6:44:46am |
re: #37 Sergey Romanov
Reminds me of prohibition-era America.
What’s driving it? In the US, during prohibition, it was the huge amount of money from alcohol, combined with societal tolerance of bootleggers as sort of merry rascals— up until the Valentine Day’s massacre.
So from where comes the tolerance in Russia? Is it simply that the oligarchs and mafia are tied at the hip, have shitloads of money, and a habit of murdering those who oppose them?
39 |
Rightwingconspirator Dec 6, 2010 6:45:15am |
New Page for your enjoyment. The most fun I have yet had out with mt Canon 7D.
| 40 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 6:49:29am |
re: #39 Rightwingconspirator
That guy rocks it slow and down low.
| 41 |
NJDhockeyfan Dec 6, 2010 6:50:54am |
Just when Charlie Rangel thought his troubles were finally over, a new ethics charge emerges…
Rangel in deeper with new ethics charge
The Federal Election Commission is investigating a complaint that Rep. Charles Rangel improperly used his National Leadership PAC to fund his legal defense on ethics charges for which he was censured Thursday, The Post has learned.
| 42 |
Ding-an-sich Wannabe Dec 6, 2010 6:51:52am |
re: #38 Obdicut
Tolerance of what, corruption? It’s more like we’ve more or less given up on that, though of course Medvedev now starts yet another “war on corruption”. Which is kinda pointless because corruption is everywhere. That means the cops/prosecutors/officials are also corrupt, and since it’s a system, it’s hard to go against it, so they try to be a part of it. Only when extreme things like this mass murder happen do we see “officially” what’s underneath, because the higher-ups need to save face. (There is only one positive aspect of corruption, one can buy one’s way out of the army draft.)
| 43 |
Rightwingconspirator Dec 6, 2010 6:52:47am |
re: #40 Obdicut
That guy rocks it slow and down low.
Yes he does.
When I first heard him my hair stood up. Never reached for a 5 spot so fast before. Right now I’m rendering 3 more songs to post on document. His opinions on busking and LA are so very genuine…
We get together again later this week. Can’t wait!
| 44 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 6:53:18am |
re: #42 Sergey Romanov
Yeah, I meant about corruption. I guess it’s just really, really hard to fight an entrenched system, especially when you can’t take one bold move— like ending prohibition— to smack it down.
Sucks for Russians.
| 45 |
NJDhockeyfan Dec 6, 2010 6:58:00am |
Iran says it’s now fully self-sufficient at producing uranium
The head of Iran’s atomic energy organization said on television Sunday that Iran had achieved the ability to produce its own yellow cake, uranium powder that is a step in the process for creating nuclear fuel.
Ali Akbar Salehi said the breakthrough, using uranium ore mined in southern Iran, signified the country’s full self-sufficiency in the production of uranium, cutting out the need for imported material.
The announcement comes on the eve of talks on Iran’s nuclear program Monday in Geneva and may be aimed at bolstering Tehran’s bargaining position. It also follows attacks Monday on two Iranian scientists, one of them Majid Shahriari, who was killed in what Iran described as a Western or Israeli operation.
| 46 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 6:58:57am |
re: #43 Rightwingconspirator
He’s really great. Reminds me of Leadbelly. Really controlled style.
| 47 |
darthstar Dec 6, 2010 7:01:18am |
48 |
Flounder Dec 6, 2010 7:06:37am |
Any Robert Jordan fans here? I’m almost done with Towers of Midnight, savoring every sentence. I just hope I don’t have to wait another year or two for the next book!
| 49 |
Ding-an-sich Wannabe Dec 6, 2010 7:08:47am |
A propos of nothing: CuriousLurker recently suggested a possible alliance between the US far right and Islamists, and here’s a not-so-ancient item I found at ADL site:
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Taqyia2Me Dec 6, 2010 7:09:42am |
re: #39 Rightwingconspirator
New Page for your enjoyment. The most fun I have yet had out with mt Canon 7D.
Thank you very much, RWC.
| 51 |
NJDhockeyfan Dec 6, 2010 7:14:22am |
Another traitor has been caught.
Navy investigators say Fort Bragg sailor sold secret documents to undercover FBI agent
FAYETTEVILLE, N.C. (AP) — Navy investigators say a sailor stationed at Fort Bragg is in custody after officials say he sold top secret documents to an FBI agent posing as a foreign intelligence officer.
Naval Criminal Investigative Service spokesman Ed Buice told The Fayetteville Observer that 22-year-old Navy Reserve Intelligence Specialist 3rd Class Bryan Minkyu Martin, of Mexico, N.Y., is being held in Norfolk, Va. Martin was taken into custody Wednesday but has not been charged.
A search warrant unsealed in federal court Friday showed that Martin sold documents on several occasions staged by investigators at two Spring Lake hotels and told the undercover agent he could be a very valuable source of information over the course of his planned 20-year Navy career.
Martin enlisted in the Navy in 2006 and received top secret clearance the following year.
| 53 |
Ding-an-sich Wannabe Dec 6, 2010 7:20:18am |
The Left Rights [=2/4 MSI] - White
54 |
Shiplord Kirel Dec 6, 2010 7:26:52am |
RIP, Dandy Don:
Legendary Cowboys, SMU quarterback Don Meredith dies
Don Meredith, the Dallas Cowboys and SMU quarterback and Monday Night Football icon, died Sunday evening in Santa Fe, N.M. He was 72.
Meredith died at Christus St. Vincent Regional Medical Center, a hospital spokesman confirmed this morning. The Meredith family’s attorney, Lisa Fine Moses, said his wife, Susan, and daughter Mary were at his side.
Meredith had battled emphysema in recent years and suffered a minor stroke in 2004.
He was the only living Cowboys Ring of Honor member unable to attend the franchise’s September 2009 inaugural game at Cowboys Stadium.
Meredith was the original Dallas Cowboy, signing a personal services contract on Nov. 28, 1959, two months before the franchise officially gained admittance into the NFL.
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McSpiff Dec 6, 2010 7:27:12am |
re: #51 NJDhockeyfan
Another traitor has been caught.
Navy investigators say Fort Bragg sailor sold secret documents to undercover FBI agent
I’m sure all those defending WL will be lining up to defend this guy. Oh, he doesn’t have a slick media team? Never mind then, let’em rot.
56 |
Dark_Falcon Dec 6, 2010 7:30:13am |
re: #38 Obdicut
Reminds me of prohibition-era America.
What’s driving it? In the US, during prohibition, it was the huge amount of money from alcohol, combined with societal tolerance of bootleggers as sort of merry rascals— up until the Valentine Day’s massacre.
So from where comes the tolerance in Russia? Is it simply that the oligarchs and mafia are tied at the hip, have shitloads of money, and a habit of murdering those who oppose them?
You and me need to have this discussion later today. I’d start in now, but I’ve got only time for a drive by posting. BBL
| 57 |
Ding-an-sich Wannabe Dec 6, 2010 7:34:08am |
PZ Myers throws a wet blanket on the arsenic life claims…
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lawhawk Dec 6, 2010 7:35:29am |
re: #41 NJDhockeyfan
He’s unrepentant and claimed that he didn’t do anything that would enrich himself, which is complete nonsense. If you or I don’t pay our taxes, we’re enriching ourselves because we’ve got more money than had we paid our tax obligations.
Rangel didn’t pay taxes on his real estate holdings.
If you or I were able to get below market rent on office space that we would otherwise not be entitled to, you would be pocketing the difference. That’s unjust enrichment because you wouldn’t be entitled to pay that rate of rent. Yet, that’s exactly what Rangel did when he used his rent stabilized apartment as an office in violation of state law. He pocketed the difference.
The sad thing is that his constituents simply do not care. They gave him a heroes welcome over the weekend despite the censure vote last week. That’s perhaps the saddest part of all - the voters simply couldn’t be bothered with the ethical lapses and failures to pay taxes.
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Varek Raith Dec 6, 2010 7:36:47am |
re: #57 Sergey Romanov
PZ Myers throws a wet blanket on the arsenic life claims…
[Link: scienceblogs.com…]
He’s right.
But!
It’s still very, very cool that this bacteria could do what it did.
| 60 |
Ding-an-sich Wannabe Dec 6, 2010 7:37:06am |
Bolton is not the only one to hate electrons.
| 61 |
NJDhockeyfan Dec 6, 2010 7:40:13am |
re: #54 shiplord kirel
RIP, Dandy Don:
Bummer. I remember him throwing the ball as a Cowboy under the late great Tom Landry and doing MNF soon after that with Frank Gifford and Howard Cosell. Those were the days.
Don Meredith Turn Out The Lights
A Tribute to “Dandy” Don Meredith
| 62 |
lawhawk Dec 6, 2010 7:43:15am |
re: #61 NJDhockeyfan
That was the golden age of MNF if you ask me… great stories and great personalities. And I say that as a Giants fan. RIP Don Meredith.
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Gus Dec 6, 2010 7:45:18am |
Activists Assaulted At Hawaii State Capitol
Activists were protesting invocation or prayers in the capitol to the non-existent Spaghetti Monster.
| 64 |
Ding-an-sich Wannabe Dec 6, 2010 7:51:26am |
re: #63 Gus 802
Kahle was arrested and prosecuted, but was ultimately vindicated when Judge Leslie Hayashi found Kahle “NOT GUILTY” and ruled that: “The Senate’s [Christian] prayers violate the constitutional separation of church and state.”
GOOD.
| 65 |
NJDhockeyfan Dec 6, 2010 7:52:32am |
re: #58 lawhawk
The sad thing is that his constituents simply do not care. They gave him a heroes welcome over the weekend despite the censure vote last week. That’s perhaps the saddest part of all - the voters simply couldn’t be bothered with the ethical lapses and failures to pay taxes.
After witnessing a crack smoking mayor in DC…Marion ‘Bitch set me up’ Barry…getting reelected after getting out of jail, nothing surprises me in politics anymore.
| 66 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 7:54:39am |
re: #64 Sergey Romanov
GOOD.
I didn’t see that but that is good news. Guess this proves that the police can arrest you for anything they wish.
| 67 |
Ding-an-sich Wannabe Dec 6, 2010 7:56:06am |
re: #66 Gus 802
Speaking of police, I left you this comment on the last thread:
| 68 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 7:57:06am |
re: #57 Sergey Romanov
I think he’s missing a vital part: The organism won’t grow without both arsenic and phosphorus. That is really, really, really, really fascinating.
The part that is unknown, and may have been an overclaim— which would vastly diminish the importance of the discovery— is if the organism is really using the arsenic in its DNA and other nucleic stuff.
| 69 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 7:58:21am |
re: #67 Sergey Romanov
Speaking of police, I left you this comment on the last thread:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
Thanks. I read that about an hour ago. I was rambling and babbling when I wrote that last night and not speaking from true knowledge or experience. Watching this video of what took place in Hawaii I was reminded of what I said about the Russian police.
| 70 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 7:59:46am |
re: #69 Gus 802
Make that “police in Russia” as opposed to “Russian police.”
| 71 |
Varek Raith Dec 6, 2010 8:00:14am |
re: #68 Obdicut
I think he’s missing a vital part: The organism won’t grow without both arsenic and phosphorus. That is really, really, really, really fascinating.
The part that is unknown, and may have been an overclaim— which would vastly diminish the importance of the discovery— is if the organism is really using the arsenic in its DNA and other nucleic stuff.
I completely glossed over that face.
D’OH!
| 72 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 8:00:44am |
re: #63 Gus 802
Wait, the protesters were arrested? What about the fuckers who assaulted them?
Insanity.
| 73 |
Ding-an-sich Wannabe Dec 6, 2010 8:01:22am |
re: #68 Obdicut
I’m sorta cynical now about the hyped-up claims after several disappointments (the last ones were from the field of paleontology - Ida and whatnot). 48hr rule applies to science too…
| 74 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 8:02:06am |
re: #73 Sergey Romanov
Yeah, if the claims that the arsenic is being used in DNA/RNA turns out to be true, this discovery is about as tenth as cool as they claimed it was.
| 76 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 8:03:03am |
re: #72 Obdicut
Wait, the protesters were arrested? What about the fuckers who assaulted them?
Insanity.
You know how it goes. They are however pursuing legal action:
Protestor suing State and Senate staff
HONOLULU (HawaiiNewsNow) - An activist who was acquitted of disorderly conduct for protesting prayer in the state Senate is now suing the State.
That was the protest that got Mitch Kahle arrested during a Senate session in April.
He and his photographer, Kevin Hughes, filed a civil suit against the State, Senate staff and sheriff’s deputies.
Among the 14 allegations: assault and battery, false arrest and imprisonment and conspiracy.
A video shot by Hughes shows Senate Sergeant at Arms, Bienvenido Villaflor, allegedly punching the camera.
Villaflor is a former professional boxer, and Kahle’s attorney says that made for an explosive situation.
“When you put somebody with the training of Mr. Villaflor, who has a violent skill, and put him in charge of security, without the right training, it’s a recipe for disaster,” plaintiff’s attorney James Bickerton said.
“The lasting effect for me, is now the understanding that I might be attacked when I go to the capitol to exercise my first amendment rights, for whatever reason that I might be there,” Kahle said.
Attorney Bickerton says the photographer is still recovering from his physical injuries and suffers from anxiety and stress.
| 77 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 8:04:11am |
re: #72 Obdicut
Wait, the protesters were arrested? What about the fuckers who assaulted them?
Insanity.
Here’s the group they’re with:
Hawaii Citizens for the Separation of State and Church
A religion and government watchdog group founded in 1997 to oppose the Christian supremacy movement and defend the constitutional separation of state and church.
| 78 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 8:06:35am |
re: #76 Gus 802
I’m going to say that I don’t think that protesting in person like that really accomplishes much— except when the jackasses in charge decide to rough you up for doing so. I can’t believe that. I especially can’t believe it was the guy who’s supposed to be in charge of security who started assaulting them. That’s just shameful.
The attempt to get the camera is pathetic thuggery, a huge acknowledgement of guilt.
| 79 |
Varek Raith Dec 6, 2010 8:08:05am |
| 80 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 8:10:38am |
re: #78 Obdicut
I’m going to say that I don’t think that protesting in person like that really accomplishes much— except when the jackasses in charge decide to rough you up for doing so. I can’t believe that. I especially can’t believe it was the guy who’s supposed to be in charge of security who started assaulting them. That’s just shameful.
The attempt to get the camera is pathetic thuggery, a huge acknowledgement of guilt.
I’m pretty sure the reason they were assaulted had a lot to do with “faith” issues. Oh the dripping irony. The attempt to block the camera though is pretty typical. It’s part of the “new rules” to stop the recording of arrests.
| 82 |
NJDhockeyfan Dec 6, 2010 8:17:43am |
Meat Loaf on Wikileaks’ Julian Assange: ‘I want to cut off his toes’
Meat Loaf wants to cut off the toes of Julian Assange - the man behind the Wikileaks revelations about previously-secret cables sent from US embassies about their host nations.
Heh.
| 83 |
Ding-an-sich Wannabe Dec 6, 2010 8:24:02am |
re: #69 Gus 802
To expand a bit on the ethnic part.
1. The inter-ethnic relations are strained, partially because of the severe culture clash (added to usual xenophobia present everywhere), and the state doesn’t actually have to pour gasoline here. Nor would it want to in most cases, especially as “stability” is valued. The only exception (an example of the xenophobia from above) was the truly disgusting anti-Georgian hysteria, when even in some official instructions (confidential, but which did come to light) there was an implicit suggestion of ethnic discrimination. Thankfully, it died down.
2. I hate Putin, but I’ll say this. Regardless of the policy (and there’s something to be said about that, e.g. about the “moderately” nationalist Molodaya gvardiya), the “top” does not personally act xenophobic, which is an important factor. Putin was once asked about what he thought about Cthulhu’s awakening (a RuNet meme at that time) and his answer was great - “If someone wants to know about the true values, let the read Bible, Talmud or Quran, it will be more useful”. When asked about the nationalist slogan “Russia is for [ethnic] Russians”, he answered that only “idiots or provocateurs” say that (and implied that such slogans can even be prosecuted). I think he’s more of an “internationalist” than 90% of Russians. Then there’s the fact that our minister of interior Rashid Nurgaliyev is of Muslim background, our head of Foreign Intelligence Service Mikhail Fradkov is Jewish, etc. - and nobody ever makes a fuss about this.
So there is at least an attempt to have this decorum of a truly multiethnic state. This, unfortunately, doesn’t mean that the “bottom” of the system acts in accordance with this decorum.
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elizajane Dec 6, 2010 8:31:09am |
COW UPDATE:
Sarah killed a *Caribou* cow, not a cow cow.
The Caribou would have had a chance to run away (that’s why it’s “hunting”) but chose to stand still while Sarah took five shots to kill it, having failed to set the scope of her rifle in advance. But in spite of this evidence that the Former Gov. was not as experienced at hunting as we thought //, the Caribou placidly remained within range while she adjusted and fired again. And again.
This would seem to prove that Sarah’s power over dumb creatures is truly awesome, and that her motto “just reload” has a very practical basis.
86 |
Walter L. Newton Dec 6, 2010 8:43:09am |
Maybe we could ask France to help ween us off petroleum…
India signs multi-billion euro nuclear deal with France
French company Areva will build two nuclear power plants in west India after Prime Minister Manmohan Singh signed a seven billion euro agreement with President Nicolas Sarkozy during his four-day trip to the booming nation.
87 |
avanti Dec 6, 2010 8:46:01am |
I’m against the Wilileaks as much as anyone, but Fox is going nuts. Just now, a guy from the Heritage Foundation was on discussing “non-traditional” ways to silence the leaker. He called the leaked info “electronic IED’s” (terrorist, hint hint)
I’m a more than a bit nervous about calls for selective assassinations of folks that leak embarrassing info. Outing a covert CIA operative “good”, leaking diplomatic cables “IED”s” ???
| 88 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 8:48:01am |
Damn humidity makes it feel colder than a witches tit out there. It’s only 32 degrees but the Post is also calling out 74 percent humidity.
90 |
reine.de.tout Dec 6, 2010 8:50:56am |
re: #89 Gus 802
Is it spring yet?
Humidity works to make heat OR cold feel worse than it is.
When it’s cold and humid, the humidity makes it seem like the cold is seeping through your clothes and into your bones. brrrrrrr.
When it’s hot and humid, you feel like you’re drowning.
| 91 |
lawhawk Dec 6, 2010 8:53:05am |
re: #86 Walter L. Newton
You can make all the deals you want, but if you don’t find a place to put those nuclear power plants, it doesn’t amount to much. Resistance to siting new nuclear plants in the US is limiting new development here. Environmentalists complain that the nuclear power plants affect water quality (nuclear power plants need prodigious amounts of water to cool the turbines and that affects both water temps and kills fish. It’s a tactic that environmentalists are trying to use to shut down the Indian Pt. nuclear plant in Buchanan NY, and prevent construction of a new reactor in NJ at Oyster Creek (where several other plants are currently operating).
We’d just have to ignore that burning coal actually releases mercury, heavy metals, radioactive elements, etc.
Conservation alone will not meet power demands, and improving air quality will take more than just wind or solar power (which are increasingly likely to be built in Chinese factories because of lower costs using less than stellar environmental controls contributing further to the degredation of the environment there).
| 92 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 8:53:05am |
Humidity works to make heat OR cold feel worse than it is.
When it’s cold and humid, the humidity makes it seem like the cold is seeping through your clothes and into your bones. brrr.When it’s hot and humid, you feel like you’re drowning.
Yep. After being in Denver for almost 20 years, which is dry, I can feel the slightest rise in humidity. It’s been like that for the past 3 days.
| 93 |
Shiplord Kirel Dec 6, 2010 8:55:18am |
re: #87 avanti
I’m against the Wilileaks as much as anyone, but Fox is going nuts. Just now, a guy from the Heritage Foundation was on discussing “non-traditional” ways to silence the leaker. He called the leaked info “electronic IED’s” (terrorist, hint hint)
I’m a more than a bit nervous about calls for selective assassinations of folks that leak embarrassing info. Outing a covert CIA operative “good”, leaking diplomatic cables “IED”s” ???
“Will no one rid me of this turbulent pest?”
///
Actually, assassinating one’s enemies is rather traditional. It’s only been in the last few centuries, with all this constitutionality and rule of law stuff, that more ponderous procedures have been adopted. Fox is certainly longing for the good (very) old days here.
| 95 |
NJDhockeyfan Dec 6, 2010 8:57:16am |
re: #94 Gus 802
And the damn heater went kaput this morning.
I had to fix mine last week. The damn blower motor died.
| 96 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 8:59:07am |
re: #95 NJDhockeyfan
I had to fix mine last week. The damn blower motor died.
Bet that was cheap. /
I’m in an apartment. They got new HVAC people a couple of years ago. Second time it went out this Fall.
| 97 |
NJDhockeyfan Dec 6, 2010 8:59:08am |
The crazies at PETA, who once compared chicken farms to the holocaust, are now using a photoshopped image of the Pope handing out condoms to encourage people to neuter their animals.
I can’t even imagine what advantage can be gained by using the Pope’s image other than raising a ruckus by attacking the Church. But isn’t that what this is all about anyway. They know they’ll never be criticized by the mainstream media for insulting the Pope so it’s a free shot. The ordinary ministers of the media will chortle, enjoy the insult, and report on it with serious faces. Because after all wasn’t it them in the first place who misreported what Pope Benedict’s statement actually meant.
| 98 |
kirkspencer Dec 6, 2010 9:00:34am |
re: #91 lawhawk
You can make all the deals you want, but if you don’t find a place to put those nuclear power plants, it doesn’t amount to much. Resistance to siting new nuclear plants in the US is limiting new development here. Environmentalists complain that the nuclear power plants affect water quality (nuclear power plants need prodigious amounts of water to cool the turbines and that affects both water temps and kills fish. It’s a tactic that environmentalists are trying to use to shut down the Indian Pt. nuclear plant in Buchanan NY, and prevent construction of a new reactor in NJ at Oyster Creek (where several other plants are currently operating).
We’d just have to ignore that burning coal actually releases mercury, heavy metals, radioactive elements, etc.
Conservation alone will not meet power demands, and improving air quality will take more than just wind or solar power (which are increasingly likely to be built in Chinese factories because of lower costs using less than stellar environmental controls contributing further to the degredation of the environment there).
The bolded is an unfair attack on the environmentalists. They don’t like coal, either, for pretty much the reasons you’ve mentioned. When you pull in a line like that its inherent dishonesty weakens the argument in my mind.
There are extremists who seem to think man is not part of nature and so abhor, well, anything. But what most of the environmentalists tend to prefer is wind, solar, and other renewables. Keep your arguments honest, please.
(For the record, I’m fine with nuclear as far as environmental concerns go. I’ve other issues, most of which boil down to it being less available than oil, but that’s separate.)
| 99 |
NJDhockeyfan Dec 6, 2010 9:00:41am |
re: #96 Gus 802
Bet that was cheap. /
I’m in an apartment. They got new HVAC people a couple of years ago. Second time it went out this Fall.
It wasn’t too bad. The new motor was only 90 bucks. It took me about 20 minutes to install it. I have an old Singer furnace.
| 100 |
Walter L. Newton Dec 6, 2010 9:02:52am |
re: #96 Gus 802
Bet that was cheap. /
I’m in an apartment. They got new HVAC people a couple of years ago. Second time it went out this Fall.
Is it actually cooler in Denver than it is up here, west of you and about 4000 feet higher… I’m at 37 degrees (f) right now… weather page say that’s in the process of dropping right now.
| 101 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 9:03:00am |
re: #99 NJDhockeyfan
It wasn’t too bad. The new motor was only 90 bucks. It took me about 20 minutes to install it. I have an old Singer furnace.
I helped the maintenance guy remove the motor in my fan coil to get it oiled up. Took about 2 hours. I think it’s from 1974. Forgot the make.
| 102 |
Walter L. Newton Dec 6, 2010 9:03:57am |
re: #101 Gus 802
I helped the maintenance guy remove the motor in my fan coil to get it oiled up. Took about 2 hours. I think it’s from 1974. Forgot the make.
Probably Tonka.
| 103 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 9:06:12am |
re: #102 Walter L. Newton
Probably Tonka.
Yeah. Much like those aluminum glider windows that rattle in the wind. Those are annoying. Ah, the 70s.
| 104 |
garhighway Dec 6, 2010 9:09:39am |
re: #91 lawhawk
You can make all the deals you want, but if you don’t find a place to put those nuclear power plants, it doesn’t amount to much. Resistance to siting new nuclear plants in the US is limiting new development here. Environmentalists complain that the nuclear power plants affect water quality (nuclear power plants need prodigious amounts of water to cool the turbines and that affects both water temps and kills fish. It’s a tactic that environmentalists are trying to use to shut down the Indian Pt. nuclear plant in Buchanan NY, and prevent construction of a new reactor in NJ at Oyster Creek (where several other plants are currently operating).
We’d just have to ignore that burning coal actually releases mercury, heavy metals, radioactive elements, etc.
Conservation alone will not meet power demands, and improving air quality will take more than just wind or solar power (which are increasingly likely to be built in Chinese factories because of lower costs using less than stellar environmental controls contributing further to the degredation of the environment there).
The real answer there is one the free marketers don’t like: you have to take the siting issues away from the locals and into an expedited (federal) process. Otherwise, you get “NIMBY-ed” to death. So you end up having to decide which you hate more: our inability to get going on nuclear, or more federal authority.
| 105 |
garhighway Dec 6, 2010 9:10:40am |
re: #45 NJDhockeyfan
Iran says it’s now fully self-sufficient at producing uranium
What do you think we (the US of A, not LGF) ought to do about this?
| 106 |
NJDhockeyfan Dec 6, 2010 9:12:05am |
re: #101 Gus 802
I helped the maintenance guy remove the motor in my fan coil to get it oiled up. Took about 2 hours. I think it’s from 1974. Forgot the make.
My motor is about 25 years old. It’s an Emerson. They don’t make motors anymore, they have another company make them. Luckily the motor repair place had a different brand in stock. Of course it’s made in China.
| 107 |
NJDhockeyfan Dec 6, 2010 9:15:35am |
Vet faces 5 charges in Westboro incident
Prosecutors today charged a decorated, double-amputee veteran with stalking and three counts of criminal use of a firearm in an incident involving members of a controversial Topeka church. Ryan J. Newell, 26, an Army veteran living in Marion, made his first appearance in Sedgwick County District Court through a video connection with the Sedgwick County Jail. He also was charged with false impersonation. His bond remains at $500,000.
| 108 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 9:15:48am |
re: #106 NJDhockeyfan
My motor is about 25 years old. It’s an Emerson. They don’t make motors anymore, they have another company make them. Luckily the motor repair place had a different brand in stock. Of course it’s made in China.
Hecho en China!
I was looking for a typewriter ribbon a couple of years ago. Panasonic. They don’t make it anymore but they has some other manufacturer. 22 smackers. That’s the problem with proprietary OEM designs. Once they stop making it your stuck. Unlike the case of the old ribbon spools. The same must apply to motors.
| 109 |
NJDhockeyfan Dec 6, 2010 9:19:22am |
re: #105 garhighway
What do you think we (the US of A, not LGF) ought to do about this?
I suppose we have 2 choices, don’t we?
1. Continue to ask them to stop building nukes with hope they will adhere to the world’s call for ending their nuclear program so they won’t bomb Israel and/or Europe.
2. Bomb their nuclear sites.
There aren’t many other options I can think of.
| 110 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 9:25:33am |
re: #109 NJDhockeyfan
I suppose we have 2 choices, don’t we?
1. Continue to ask them to stop building nukes with hope they will adhere to the world’s call for ending their nuclear program so they won’t bomb Israel and/or Europe.
2. Bomb their nuclear sites.
There aren’t many other options I can think of.
There’s always a strongly worded letter.
We can have Syria compose it.
/
| 111 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 9:28:17am |
re: #91 lawhawk
It’s not just enviornmentalists that object to nuclear power. There’s plenty of NIMBYism from people of all stripes.
Disposal of nuclear waste is, likewise, objected to by all sides of the political spectrum.
I’m not sure where the meme originated that only environmentalists object to nuclear power, but it’s not at all true.
| 112 |
garhighway Dec 6, 2010 9:28:50am |
re: #109 NJDhockeyfan
I suppose we have 2 choices, don’t we?
1. Continue to ask them to stop building nukes with hope they will adhere to the world’s call for ending their nuclear program so they won’t bomb Israel and/or Europe.
2. Bomb their nuclear sites.
There aren’t many other options I can think of.
Assuming those are the two choices, which would you pick?
| 113 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 9:29:31am |
Welcome to the 201st United Nations Iran Nuclear Proliferation summit! This year it will take place in the Principality of Monaco!
Luxury lodging and vast entertainment opportunities available!
Local airport able to handle general aviation private jet aircraft. Limo service also available to and from your hotel to the summit location.
Free brochure.
/
| 114 |
Ding-an-sich Wannabe Dec 6, 2010 9:31:22am |
Hmm. Google eBooks is now open and it seems I can link to specific pages.
Try this and tell me if it works:
| 115 |
NJDhockeyfan Dec 6, 2010 9:31:56am |
re: #112 garhighway
Assuming those are the two choices, which would you pick?
Bombing their nuclear plants. I called for that years ago. I was disappointed when George Bush didn’t do it before their nuclear program go as far as it has gotten.
How about you, what do you think we should do?
| 116 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 9:32:42am |
Summits are like work meetings. Too many people gather to get nothing done. Sometimes it results in pages of worthless notes that lead to future unproductive meetings.re: #114 Sergey Romanov
Hmm. Google eBooks is now open and it seems I can link to specific pages.
Try this and tell me if it works:
[Link: books.google.com…]
Yep. It works.
The jolly game of breaking windows!
/
118 |
Killgore Trout Dec 6, 2010 9:33:00am |
re: #114 Sergey Romanov
“the jolly game of snowballing”
Seems to work just fine.
| 119 |
kirkspencer Dec 6, 2010 9:34:03am |
re: #109 NJDhockeyfan
I suppose we have 2 choices, don’t we?
1. Continue to ask them to stop building nukes with hope they will adhere to the world’s call for ending their nuclear program so they won’t bomb Israel and/or Europe.
2. Bomb their nuclear sites.
There aren’t many other options I can think of.
I’ll ask the old questions again.
Why do you think they’d bomb Israel and/or Europe?
On Israel, I’ll make two points:
1) Jerusalem is also sacred to Islam. They want to destroy Israel the nation, not the land to include the Dome of the Rock.
2) MAD exists. Do the leaders of Iran want to destroy Israel so bad they’re willing to destroy the leading Shia nation for the benefit of Sunnis everywhere?
On Europe, one point. They can’t have enough bombs to destroy Europe. They can at most hit a small handful of critical cities. Thus the second point of the Israeli argument exists: are they willing to sacrifice themselves and the leading Shia nation for the benefit of Sunnis everywhere?
We, not just the US but the nuclear club as a whole, have tried to restrict membership. We’ve failed. We’re going to fail more. We need to establish a different mechanism for control.
This is especially true given an earlier comment’s point: nuclear power plants have advantages over coal. If we’re going to replace coal plants we’re going to have to do so everywhere - including places like Iran. That means we put low-grade fissiles in the hands of our potential and declared enemies, who will have the ability to increase the strength of those fissiles in secret.
We need another mechanism to resolve the horns of the dilemma you’ve listed.
| 120 |
Ding-an-sich Wannabe Dec 6, 2010 9:35:52am |
Thanks, everyone. It’s not a feature though. They disable right-clicking through JavaScript. I had to temporarily disable it to get the page URL. They may disable the outside linking to prevent this.
| 121 |
Killgore Trout Dec 6, 2010 9:39:00am |
The slow motion pursuit continues….
Wikileaks: Julian Assange arrest warrant arrives in UK
Britain has received a European arrest warrant from Sweden for the Wikileaks’ founder Julian Assange.The warrant is being processed by the Serious Organised Crime Agency and will be sent to the Metropolitan Police as he is thought to be in the London area.
| 123 |
garhighway Dec 6, 2010 9:40:06am |
re: #115 NJDhockeyfan
Bombing their nuclear plants. I called for that years ago. I was disappointed when George Bush didn’t do it before their nuclear program go as far as it has gotten.
How about you, what do you think we should do?
I think it’s the problem from hell. If we bomb them, there’s no guarantee it would be effective (they’ve been burying and hardening their facilities for a while now) and we will have succeeded in uniting the Iranians behind their current regime, as their nuclear program is popular domestically, and bombing is pretty certain to be wildly unpopular.
We’ve tolerated a nuclear Pakistan for quite some time. We’ve tolerated a nuclear N Korea. The Iranians have to know that entrusting a nuke to a non-state actor is incredibly stupid.
So I would reluctantly opt for not bombing them. (Which has the collateral benefit of getting us out of the business of deciding for every other country in the world what they are or are not allowed to do.)
| 124 |
Killgore Trout Dec 6, 2010 9:42:56am |
Reuters headline: Sweden says Britain now got all Assange warrant info
That can’t possibly be correct grammar.
125 |
Buck Dec 6, 2010 9:43:29am |
re: #121 Killgore Trout
The slow motion pursuit continues…
Wikileaks: Julian Assange arrest warrant arrives in UK
It is funny to me that they feel they have to add the descriptor “Serious” to the “Organised Crime Agency”. As if there was another agency for the Trivial Organised Crime.
| 126 |
garhighway Dec 6, 2010 9:44:25am |
re: #125 Buck
It is funny to me that they feel they have to add the descriptor “Serious” to the “Organised Crime Agency”. As if there was another agency for the Trivial Organised Crime.
The other agency is the Humorous Organized Crime Agency.
| 127 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 9:44:47am |
re: #124 Killgore Trout
Reuters headline: Sweden says Britain now got all Assange warrant info
That can’t possibly be correct grammar.
Wake me up when they arrest him.
| 128 |
NJDhockeyfan Dec 6, 2010 9:46:25am |
re: #119 kirkspencer
I’ll ask the old questions again.
Why do you think they’d bomb Israel and/or Europe?
On Israel, I’ll make two points:
1) Jerusalem is also sacred to Islam. They want to destroy Israel the nation, not the land to include the Dome of the Rock.
2) MAD exists. Do the leaders of Iran want to destroy Israel so bad they’re willing to destroy the leading Shia nation for the benefit of Sunnis everywhere?On Europe, one point. They can’t have enough bombs to destroy Europe. They can at most hit a small handful of critical cities. Thus the second point of the Israeli argument exists: are they willing to sacrifice themselves and the leading Shia nation for the benefit of Sunnis everywhere?
We, not just the US but the nuclear club as a whole, have tried to restrict membership. We’ve failed. We’re going to fail more. We need to establish a different mechanism for control.
This is especially true given an earlier comment’s point: nuclear power plants have advantages over coal. If we’re going to replace coal plants we’re going to have to do so everywhere - including places like Iran. That means we put low-grade fissiles in the hands of our potential and declared enemies, who will have the ability to increase the strength of those fissiles in secret.
We need another mechanism to resolve the horns of the dilemma you’ve listed.
Ahmadinejad & the Mullahs are a part of the Islamic cult that believes in the 12 Imam (Muhammad al-Mahdi). They believe they can call this Imam out who is hiding in a well somewhere by starting Armageddon. Ahmadinejad has even widened a road in Tehran so his chariot can land there. He has been threatening Israel for years if you haven’t noticed. I think they would sacrifice their own country if they can bring the Mahdi out of his well.
| 129 |
SanFranciscoZionist Dec 6, 2010 9:47:08am |
re: #127 Gus 802
Wake me up when they arrest him.
Don’t wake me up. This guy may be a genuinely new kind of shit-disturber, but he bores me.
| 130 |
kirkspencer Dec 6, 2010 9:48:44am |
re: #122 Gus 802
A treaty ought to do it.
Much like the Treaty of Versailles.
/
Some treaties are effective, some aren’t. An effective treaty needs at least one of two requirements: good faith and/or effective enforcement.
I keep coming back to the question of why the Iranians wanted a nuclear power plant, especially one that wasn’t a breeder. The facile answer is that they want to make nukes — after all, they have all that oil. I keep wondering, however, if their true oil reserve numbers show they’ve got a limited future and someone in there is actually thinking about tomorrow. I keep noticing that they use coal powerplants, and there’s a small but definite push against pollution. I keep wondering if everyone is too fond of single simple answers, and remembering Mencken.
| 131 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 9:48:46am |
re: #129 SanFranciscoZionist
Don’t wake me up. This guy may be a genuinely new kind of shit-disturber, but he bores me.
Yeah. That’s what I mean. It’s gotten to that point. Then reading those charges from Sweden which seem rather suspicious. I’d rather see him charged with something actually related to the leaks and not something from a bad 70s movie.
| 132 |
APox Dec 6, 2010 9:48:48am |
This is quite random, but I died a little bit inside… and couldn’t stop laughing…
Ahhhhh… world of warcraft…
| 133 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 9:51:22am |
re: #128 NJDhockeyfan
Ahmadinejad & the Mullahs are a part of the Islamic cult that believes in the 12 Imam (Muhammad al-Mahdi). They believe they can call this Imam out who is hiding in a well somewhere by starting Armageddon. Ahmadinejad has even widened a road in Tehran so his chariot can land there. He has been threatening Israel for years if you haven’t noticed. I think they would sacrifice their own country if they can bring the Mahdi out of his well.
Yep. Iran is ruled by religious fanatics from the 15th century. It’s important to not that they’re also a threat to the Middle East region as a whole and not limited to Israel. Then we have to consider nuclear containment in light of Iran’s support of terrorist organizations around the world.
| 134 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 9:52:30am |
re: #128 NJDhockeyfan
Where do you get this from?
From what I’ve read, Ahmadinejad and the Mullahs are opposed in many ways, and he, and the military, are waging an internecine power struggle with them.
135 |
Stanley Sea Dec 6, 2010 9:53:35am |
Image: slide_14416_199508_large.jpg
No comment.
136 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Dec 6, 2010 9:53:55am |
re: #1 SanFranciscoZionist
Reposted from the last thread:
BTW, for those who recall the discussion of the atheist propaganda billboard in New Jersey: my father, a devout Catholic, loves it. He says the picture is beautiful, and reminds him that the Christ child is coming to us, and it makes him think of stories the nuns and his mother told him when he was a little boy. Yes, there’s something at the top about myths. Whatever. It’s a beautiful billboard.
He thinks the Catholic League one is WAY too busy, and not inspirational.
During WWII, the Japanese were trying to distribute to our soldiers pictures of lovely women with messages about how they would leave you if you didn’t go home.
The servicemen got into collecting the entire “set,” and thanked the Japanese for the nice pin ups.
| 137 |
garhighway Dec 6, 2010 9:54:04am |
re: #128 NJDhockeyfan
Ahmadinejad & the Mullahs are a part of the Islamic cult that believes in the 12 Imam (Muhammad al-Mahdi). They believe they can call this Imam out who is hiding in a well somewhere by starting Armageddon. Ahmadinejad has even widened a road in Tehran so his chariot can land there. He has been threatening Israel for years if you haven’t noticed. I think they would sacrifice their own country if they can bring the Mahdi out of his well.
There is a difference between Dinnerjacket saying stuff we think is crazy but that works for domestic politics, and actually being crazy. Generally, we hate the people that run Iran, but I don’t think they are honest-to-God crazy.
And wanting nuclear weapons is anything but irrational if you are Iran. Sandwiched between two countries crawling with US troops, and having been engaged in a fight to the death against a neighbor not that long ago in which WMD were used against them, I can see why they think having nukes would make them more secure.
| 138 |
Ding-an-sich Wannabe Dec 6, 2010 9:54:37am |
Heh. Been reading wiki on Bible errata and found this:
“Lions Bible” 1804: 1 Kings 8:19 reads “thy son that shall come forth out of thy lions”, rather than “loins”. This edition had another error in Numbers 25:18 which read: “The murderer shall surely be put together” rather than “…put to death”.
139 |
wrenchwench Dec 6, 2010 9:54:49am |
re: #129 SanFranciscoZionist
Don’t wake me up. This guy may be a genuinely new kind of shit-disturber, but he bores me.
The egomania is as old as the species, but the technology to express it is new.
| 140 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 9:55:31am |
re: #138 Sergey Romanov
Oh god, that’s a whole ‘nother use of lions.
“Blessed for the meek, for they shall inherit the lions.”
“Nobody shall be saved except through my lion.”
“Give us this day our daily lion.”
142 |
SpaceJesus Dec 6, 2010 9:57:45am |
Live oral arguments on prop 8 are gonna be shown on CSPAN in about 3 minutes.
I think that’s the right link
| 144 |
garhighway Dec 6, 2010 9:59:08am |
re: #142 SpaceJesus
Live oral arguments on prop 8 are gonna be shown on CSPAN in about 3 minutes.
[Link: www.c-span.org…]
I think that’s the right link
First hour on standing (boring) second hour on constitutionality (not boring, I would think).
| 145 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 9:59:52am |
It’s Not Just About Israel
Six more reasons why we can’t let Iran get nukes.
By Christopher HitchensPosted Monday, Aug. 16, 2010, at 11:41 AM ET
With Russia’s ever-helpful policy of assisting Iran to accelerate its reactor program, allied to the millimetrical progress of sanctions on the Ahmadinejad regime and the increasingly hopeless state of negotiations with the Palestinians, there is likely to be no let-up in the speculation about an Israeli “first strike” on Iran’s covert but ever-more-flagrant nuclear weapons installations. I have lost count of the number of essays and columns on the subject that were published this month alone. The most significant and detailed such contribution, though, came from my friend and colleague Jeffrey Goldberg in a cover story in the Atlantic. From any close reading of this piece, it was possible to be sure of at least one thing: The government of Benjamin Netanyahu wants it to be understood that, in the absence of an American decision to do so, Israel can and will mount such an attack in the not-too-distant future. The keyword of the current anguished argument—the word existential—is thought by a strategic majority of Israel’s political and military leadership to apply in its fullest meaning. To them, an Iranian bomb is incompatible with the long-term survival of the Israeli state and even of the Jewish people.
Continues.
| 146 |
SpaceJesus Dec 6, 2010 10:00:14am |
re: #144 garhighway
standing isn’t that boring. well, maybe. we got a little party going on here at school to watch it right now.
| 147 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 10:00:21am |
re: #145 Gus 802
It’s Not Just About Israel
Six more reasons why we can’t let Iran get nukes.
By Christopher HitchensPosted Monday, Aug. 16, 2010, at 11:41 AM ET
1) International law and the stewardship of the United Nations will have been irretrievably ruined. The mullahs will have broken every solemn undertaking that they ever gave: to the International Atomic Energy Agency; to the European Union, which has been their main negotiating interlocutor up until now; and to the United Nations. (Tehran specifically rejects the right of the U.N. Security Council to have any say in this question.) Those who usually fetishize the role of the United Nations and of the international nuclear inspectors have a special responsibility to notice this appalling outcome.
2) The “Revolutionary Guards,” who last year shot and raped their way to near-absolute power in Iran, are also the guardians of the underground weapons program. A successful consummation of that program would be an immeasurable enhancement of the most aggressive faction of the current dictatorship.
3) The power of the guards to project violence outside Iran’s borders would likewise be increased. Any Hezbollah subversion of Lebanese democracy or missile attack on Israel; any Iranian collusion with the Taliban or with nihilist forces in Iraq would be harder to counter in that it would involve a confrontation with a nuclear godfather.
4) The same powerful strategic ambiguity would apply in the case of any Iranian move on a neighboring Sunni Arab Gulf state, such as Bahrain. The more extreme of Iran’s theocratic newspapers already gloat at such a prospect, which is why so many Arab regimes hope—sometimes publicly—that this “existential” threat to them also be removed.
5) There will never be a settlement of the Israel-Palestine dispute, because the rejectionist Palestinians will be even more a proxy of a regime that calls for Israel’s elimination, and the rejectionist Jews will be vindicated in their belief that concessions are a waste of time, if not worse.
6) The concept of “nonproliferation,” so dear to the heart of the right-thinking, will go straight into the history books along with the League of Nations.
148 |
b_sharp Dec 6, 2010 10:02:32am |
re: #105 garhighway
What do you think we (the US of A, not LGF) ought to do about this?
Hire a group of paranoid white guys to panic violently.
| 149 |
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light) Dec 6, 2010 10:03:53am |
re: #44 Obdicut
Russians learned under Communism that capitalists were predatory beasts who descended on the market place, snapped up their profits and fled. So when they got the chance, they began behaving exactly that way.
| 150 |
b_sharp Dec 6, 2010 10:04:08am |
re: #108 Gus 802
Hecho en China!
I was looking for a typewriter ribbon a couple of years ago. Panasonic. They don’t make it anymore but they has some other manufacturer. 22 smackers. That’s the problem with proprietary OEM designs. Once they stop making it your stuck. Unlike the case of the old ribbon spools. The same must apply to motors.
Typewriter?
Typewriter?
What year is it?
151 |
Kragar Dec 6, 2010 10:04:22am |
152 |
Four More Tears Dec 6, 2010 10:07:24am |
| 153 |
Ding-an-sich Wannabe Dec 6, 2010 10:08:01am |
I confess that several years ago I was in the “Iran’s nuclear capability should be destroyed by any means” mood. I guess I did move a bit to the “Hmmm.” position.
| 154 |
Kragar Dec 6, 2010 10:08:56am |
Julian Assange’s Swiss bank account closed
The international pressure on Julian Assange increased today after the banking arm of the Swiss post office announced that it had closed the WikiLeaks founder’s account because he had given “false information”.
“PostFinance has ended its business relationship with … Julian Paul Assange,” the bank said in a statement.
“The Australian citizen provided false information regarding his place of residence during the account opening process.”
| 155 |
garhighway Dec 6, 2010 10:09:24am |
re: #147 Gus 802
1) International law and the stewardship of the United Nations will have been irretrievably ruined. The mullahs will have broken every solemn undertaking that they ever gave: to the International Atomic Energy Agency; to the European Union, which has been their main negotiating interlocutor up until now; and to the United Nations. (Tehran specifically rejects the right of the U.N. Security Council to have any say in this question.) Those who usually fetishize the role of the United Nations and of the international nuclear inspectors have a special responsibility to notice this appalling outcome.
2) The “Revolutionary Guards,” who last year shot and raped their way to near-absolute power in Iran, are also the guardians of the underground weapons program. A successful consummation of that program would be an immeasurable enhancement of the most aggressive faction of the current dictatorship.
3) The power of the guards to project violence outside Iran’s borders would likewise be increased. Any Hezbollah subversion of Lebanese democracy or missile attack on Israel; any Iranian collusion with the Taliban or with nihilist forces in Iraq would be harder to counter in that it would involve a confrontation with a nuclear godfather.
4) The same powerful strategic ambiguity would apply in the case of any Iranian move on a neighboring Sunni Arab Gulf state, such as Bahrain. The more extreme of Iran’s theocratic newspapers already gloat at such a prospect, which is why so many Arab regimes hope—sometimes publicly—that this “existential” threat to them also be removed.
5) There will never be a settlement of the Israel-Palestine dispute, because the rejectionist Palestinians will be even more a proxy of a regime that calls for Israel’s elimination, and the rejectionist Jews will be vindicated in their belief that concessions are a waste of time, if not worse.
6) The concept of “nonproliferation,” so dear to the heart of the right-thinking, will go straight into the history books along with the League of Nations.
I have yet to see a hawkish article on this point that gives a serious look at the downside of such intervention, let alone serious analysis over whether the intervention would work.
We lived with a nuclear Soviet Union, who had thousands of such weapons and the ability to deliver them anywhere, anytime, for 40 years. That was scary but we managed it. And yet we wet our pants at the idea that Iran might get a few. I think the guy is scum, but he’s a state actor, which means if he lobs a nuke, his nation would cease to exist. He knows it, we know it, everyone knows it. Does anyone think he hates Israel enough to sacrifice Tehran? I understand that if you are Israel, maybe you don’t want to make that bet, and Israel acts, so be it. But that’s not an argument for us to do it.
156 |
Floral Giraffe Dec 6, 2010 10:10:01am |
California’s Proposition 8 attorney’s presentation to the 9th circuit court of appeals is being live broadcast for the next 2 hours on CNN, CSPAN.
If anyone is interested.
| 157 |
garhighway Dec 6, 2010 10:11:05am |
re: #146 SpaceJesus
standing isn’t that boring. well, maybe. we got a little party going on here at school to watch it right now.
Good lawyers know that standing arguments can win cases. They aren’t sexy, but a win is a win.
| 158 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Dec 6, 2010 10:13:08am |
re: #148 b_sharp
Hire a group of paranoid white guys to panic violently.
Well…that’s an idea.
Now does anyone have a good idea?
159 |
theheat Dec 6, 2010 10:14:02am |
re: #154 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Do they typically even give out that kind of private information about its customers?
| 160 |
Buck Dec 6, 2010 10:14:59am |
re: #155 garhighway
We lived with a nuclear Soviet Union, who had thousands of such weapons and the ability to deliver them anywhere, anytime, for 40 years. That was scary but we managed it.
Many don’t think that MAD works on these guys. A group that has sent children on suicide waves during a war probably doesn’t think that sacrificing their own people is much of an issue.
The USSR leadership were a completely different kind of crazy.
| 161 |
b_sharp Dec 6, 2010 10:15:14am |
re: #158 EmmmieG
Well…that’s an idea.
Now does anyone have a good idea?
You could give the paranoid white guys signs. That might work better.
| 162 |
Kragar Dec 6, 2010 10:15:49am |
Here’s an Idea: Sarah Palin for Republican Party Chair
The Republican Party will soon elect its next chairman, and a Tea Party petition is calling on Sarah Palin to run.
Judson Phillips, the founder of Tea Party Nation—the for-profit company/Tea Party group that hosted a Tea Party convention in Nashville in Feburary, where Sarah Palin made her live, in-person debut speech to any big Tea Party gathering (for a hefty speaking fee, it’s been speculated)—is circulating this letter to Palin, urging followers to sign it, promising to send it to her in the next few days:
Dear Governor Palin,
John Kennedy once said, “ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.”
Right now, your country needs you as the Chairman of the Republican National Committee.
We are in a fight for the survival of our country. The Democrats have walked off the socialist cliff and are driving the country headlong into the abyss. Unfortunately, there are many on the Republican side who do not seem to get it. They are the embodiment of the old political joke that says, with the Democrats you get more of the same and with Republicans you get less of the same.
We need you as Chairman of the RNC. You have shown in the past no hesitation to take on the establishment. You did it in Alaska. If we end up with establishment control of the GOP and their support for an establishment candidate in 2012, Obama and the socialists will have won. An establishment candidate will not work to repeal Obamacare and the other programs Obama, Pelosi and Reid have put in place. We need someone who will put conservatives in control of the party apparatus, not RINOs.
Michael Steele has spent Republican money with the gusto of a liberal. You showed in Alaska, you know how to put the brakes on unnecessary spending.
Finally, you are a superstar. You have an unbelievable ability to light up a crowd and to raise money. Both of which the Republican Party needs. Something is really wrong with the GOP when the RNC cannot fund a get out the vote campaign for mid-term elections. The GOP needs a conservative who can raise money and energize the troops. You are the only one out there with these unique talents.
We, the undersigned, are asking you to ask yourself what you can do for your country and to step up and become a candidate for Chairman of the RNC.
Thank you for your consideration and for what you continue to do for this great country.
Judson Phillips, Founder - Tea Party Nation
| 163 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 10:17:05am |
re: #160 Buck
It’s not about sacrificing their own people. It’s about sacrificing themselves.
Very different to send a kid through a minefield than it is to charge through it yourself.
| 164 |
b_sharp Dec 6, 2010 10:17:15am |
| 165 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Dec 6, 2010 10:17:23am |
So…just at the moment when Iran’s nuclear capability and NK’s kraziness have become serious crises, international diplomacy has been crippled by a show-off with a computer, a website, and an illegally obtained CD.
Splendid.
| 166 |
garhighway Dec 6, 2010 10:17:54am |
re: #160 Buck
Many don’t think that MAD works on these guys. A group that has sent children on suicide waves during a war probably doesn’t think that sacrificing their own people is much of an issue.
The USSR leadership were a completely different kind of crazy.
I suspect that Iranian leadership realizes there’s a difference between sacrificing some teenagers when in a fight to the death with Saddam and sacrificing your society in a war of choice with Israel.
| 167 |
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light) Dec 6, 2010 10:18:10am |
re: #162 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Well, Michael Steele does not seem to know when it is time to quit. Sarah should not have that problem…
| 168 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Dec 6, 2010 10:18:47am |
re: #163 Obdicut
It’s not about sacrificing their own people. It’s about sacrificing themselves.
Very different to send a kid through a minefield than it is to charge through it yourself.
Depends on who you are.
I would like to think most people would go before they would send the kid.
Maybe I’m just hopeful like that.
| 169 |
b_sharp Dec 6, 2010 10:18:47am |
re: #163 Obdicut
It’s not about sacrificing their own people. It’s about sacrificing themselves.
Very different to send a kid through a minefield than it is to charge through it yourself.
If you believe you will be protected, or rewarded, by god, it’s just a small leap of faith.
| 170 |
Kragar Dec 6, 2010 10:19:01am |
re: #167 ralphieboy
Well, Michael Steele does not seem to know when it is time to quit. Sarah should not have that problem…
She can let her kids each have a page on the RNC website.
| 171 |
theheat Dec 6, 2010 10:19:39am |
re: #162 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Michael Steele has spent Republican money with the gusto of a liberal. You showed in Alaska, you know how to put the brakes on unnecessary spending.
Yeah, because when you quit your job, your spending stops.
And personally, I think Michael Steele ought to go ahead and throw money aware on whores (male and female) for the RNC. Either way, everyone ends up apologizing to Rush Limbaugh. Might as well make it something worth apologizing for.
| 172 |
Ding-an-sich Wannabe Dec 6, 2010 10:20:25am |
re: #155 garhighway
I know that this is a secondary consideration compared to overall security, but Iranians won’t get it - including the Greens. I talked at length with an Iranian who lives in Germany, a great secular guy, engineer and absolutely anti-Ahmadinejad and anti-theocratic, and in his opinion Iran absolutely had a right to have peaceful nuclear energy, it didn’t make sense to him why it wouldn’t. I suspect this would turn off Iranians from the West for a long time.
| 173 |
theheat Dec 6, 2010 10:20:33am |
re: #171 theheat
And personally, I think Michael Steele ought to go ahead and throw money
awareaway on whores
PIMF
| 174 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 10:20:51am |
re: #155 garhighway
I have yet to see a hawkish article on this point that gives a serious look at the downside of such intervention, let alone serious analysis over whether the intervention would work.
We lived with a nuclear Soviet Union, who had thousands of such weapons and the ability to deliver them anywhere, anytime, for 40 years. That was scary but we managed it. And yet we wet our pants at the idea that Iran might get a few. I think the guy is scum, but he’s a state actor, which means if he lobs a nuke, his nation would cease to exist. He knows it, we know it, everyone knows it. Does anyone think he hates Israel enough to sacrifice Tehran? I understand that if you are Israel, maybe you don’t want to make that bet, and Israel acts, so be it. But that’s not an argument for us to do it.
The Soviet Union was a different animal and yes, there was MAD as policy which worked with both things being equal.
The Iranian regime is led by religious fanatics well known for their suicidal attacks against the Western world and the murder of their own people well into these modern times.
| 175 |
b_sharp Dec 6, 2010 10:21:35am |
re: #171 theheat
Yeah, because when you quit your job, your spending stops.
And personally, I think Michael Steele ought to go ahead and throw money aware on whores (male and female) for the RNC. Either way, everyone ends up apologizing to Rush Limbaugh. Might as well make it something worth apologizing for.
In that case, get one of the whores to squat on Limbaugh’s empty bald head.
| 176 |
SanFranciscoZionist Dec 6, 2010 10:25:14am |
re: #138 Sergey Romanov
Heh. Been reading wiki on Bible errata and found this:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
There is, I believe, also an edition in which one of the commandments reads “Thou shalt commit adultery.”
| 177 |
SanFranciscoZionist Dec 6, 2010 10:25:59am |
re: #140 Obdicut
Oh god, that’s a whole ‘nother use of lions.
“Blessed for the meek, for they shall inherit the lions.”
“Nobody shall be saved except through my lion.”
“Give us this day our daily lion.”
Honor thy mother and thy lion that thy days may be long upon the earth.
| 178 |
b_sharp Dec 6, 2010 10:26:11am |
re: #176 SanFranciscoZionist
There is, I believe, also an edition in which one of the commandments reads “Thou shalt commit adultery.”
That should be an easy commandment to follow.
| 179 |
Buck Dec 6, 2010 10:26:43am |
re: #163 Obdicut
It’s not about sacrificing their own people. It’s about sacrificing themselves.
Very different to send a kid through a minefield than it is to charge through it yourself.
Why would you think that “they” (the Iranian Mullah leadership) would not have plans to save themselves and their families?
| 180 |
NJDhockeyfan Dec 6, 2010 10:26:44am |
The frightening truth of why Iran wants a bomb
By Amir Taheri 12:01AM BST 16 Apr 2006
Last Monday, just before he announced that Iran had gatecrashed “the nuclear club”, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad disappeared for several hours. He was having a khalvat (tête-à-tête) with the Hidden Imam, the 12th and last of the imams of Shiism who went into “grand occultation” in 941.
According to Shia lore, the Imam is a messianic figure who, although in hiding, remains the true Sovereign of the World. In every generation, the Imam chooses 36 men, (and, for obvious reasons, no women) naming them the owtad or “nails”, whose presence, hammered into mankind’s existence, prevents the universe from “falling off”. Although the “nails” are not known to common mortals, it is, at times, possible to identify one thanks to his deeds. It is on that basis that some of Ahmad-inejad’s more passionate admirers insist that he is a “nail”, a claim he has not discouraged. For example, he has claimed that last September, as he addressed the United Nations’ General Assembly in New York, the “Hidden Imam drenched the place in a sweet light”.
Last year, it was after another khalvat that Ahmadinejad announced his intention to stand for president. Now, he boasts that the Imam gave him the presidency for a single task: provoking a “clash of civilisations” in which the Muslim world, led by Iran, takes on the “infidel” West, led by the United States, and defeats it in a slow but prolonged contest that, in military jargon, sounds like a low intensity, asymmetrical war.
…Ahmadinejad has also reactivated Iran’s network of Shia organisations in Bahrain, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Yemen, while resuming contact with Sunni fundamentalist groups in Turkey, Egypt, Algeria and Morocco. From childhood, Shia boys are told to cultivate two qualities. The first is entezar, the capacity patiently to wait for the Imam to return. The second is taajil, the actions needed to hasten the return. For the Imam’s return will coincide with an apocalyptic battle between the forces of evil and righteousness, with evil ultimately routed. If the infidel loses its nuclear advantage, it could be worn down in a long, low-intensity war at the end of which surrender to Islam would appear the least bad of options. And that could be a signal for the Imam to reappear.
At the same time, not to forget the task of hastening the Mahdi’s second coming, Ahamdinejad will pursue his provocations. On Monday, he was as candid as ever: “To those who are angry with us, we have one thing to say: be angry until you die of anger!”
His adviser, Hassan Abassi, is rather more eloquent. “The Americans are impatient,” he says, “at the first sight of a setback, they run away. We, however, know how to be patient. We have been weaving carpets for thousands of years.”
| 181 |
Shiplord Kirel Dec 6, 2010 10:26:54am |
Salesmanship in action:
Egyptian minister says it’s safe to swim despite German tourist being eaten by a shark
*Tourism minister insists diving will continue because ‘sharks will not attack divers’
…..unless they get hungy again.
* Foreign Office warns Britons to avoid cheap dive tour operators
Yeah, they’re real sharks
* Thomson and First Choice warn holidaymakers to stay out of the water
WE aren’t going to jump the shark.
* Just days earlier officials claimed they had caught two deadly predators
The Amity police are on the job, thanks to mayor Larry.
* Four holidaymakers injured in shark attacks last week
So? There must be thousands of tourists who haven’t been attacked…..yet.
* Killer shark may have been attracted to waters by dead cattle and sheep thrown overboard before Islamic feast of Eid al-Adha
Ahh, the plot thickens. I knew Muslim customs would figure in this somehow. Hey, lefties blamed Bush for the Nigerian e-mail scams, so there!
Egyptian officials have insisted it is safe for tourists to go back into the water despite a 70-year-old German woman being killed in Sharm el-Sheikh after another shark attack.
“Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?”
| 182 |
kirkspencer Dec 6, 2010 10:27:02am |
re: #174 Gus 802
The Soviet Union was a different animal and yes, there was MAD as policy which worked with both things being equal.
The Iranian regime is led by religious fanatics well known for their suicidal attacks against the Western world and the murder of their own people well into these modern times.
False. The Iranian regime is led by religious fanatics well known for using others who will commit suicide attacks. It is a small but critical difference. The leadership has not demonstrated a willingness to commit suicide in achievement of its objectives.
| 183 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 10:27:21am |
re: #179 Buck
Why would you think that “they” (the Iranian Mullah leadership) would not have plans to save themselves and their families?
Because it’s really hard to save yourself from nuclear bombs, bunker-busting munitions, etc?
| 185 |
SanFranciscoZionist Dec 6, 2010 10:27:59am |
re: #160 Buck
Many don’t think that MAD works on these guys. A group that has sent children on suicide waves during a war probably doesn’t think that sacrificing their own people is much of an issue.
The USSR leadership were a completely different kind of crazy.
There is and was ample historical evidence that the USSR leadership were willing, and in some cases, actively motivated to, sacrifice their own people. I don’t know if we’re whitewashing the Sovs now, or building up the Iranians, but…
| 186 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 10:28:38am |
re: #180 NJDhockeyfan
The frightening truth of why Iran wants a bomb
By Amir Taheri 12:01AM BST 16 Apr 2006
Forget it NJD.
| 187 |
Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light) Dec 6, 2010 10:28:59am |
re: #181 shiplord kirel
“Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?”
“Other than that, Mrs Kennedy, what did you think of the motorcade?”
| 188 |
Buck Dec 6, 2010 10:28:59am |
re: #183 Obdicut
Because it’s really hard to save yourself from nuclear bombs, bunker-busting munitions, etc?
It is a big country… and they can get on a plane any time they want. Not like they have to worry about a free press telling people about it.
| 189 |
Ding-an-sich Wannabe Dec 6, 2010 10:29:22am |
re: #177 SanFranciscoZionist
Honor thy mother and thy lion that thy days may be long upon the earth.
Jonah in a lion’s belly, Daniel in the lions’ den, … wait, scratch that last one.
| 190 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 10:29:25am |
re: #184 Gus 802
I’m not blowing it off. I think the Iranians getting nukes is terrible. I think that increasing support for the mullahs is worse.
I do not think they’re apocalyptic. I also am not in any way informed enough about them to accurately know, and I think very, very few people are.
| 192 |
b_sharp Dec 6, 2010 10:31:36am |
re: #184 Gus 802
I guess blowing off the Iranian threat is the new pink in here.
What colour is wanting more information before jumping to conclusions?
| 193 |
NJDhockeyfan Dec 6, 2010 10:32:58am |
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the 12th Imam
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad addressed the UN and spent a lot of his speech preaching. At the end of his speech he talked about the promise of a just world ruled by the “perfect man” and that this paradise was coming soon. That the perfect man would appear soon arriving with Muhammad and “Jesus Christ.” Amazing how bold Ahmadinejad is becoming on this! He is all but speaking of it openly and no one seems to notice! This is important to understand when dealing with Iran. Ahmadinejad believes he is called by Allah to usher in his version of the Shiite Messiah, the 12th Imam, and the way to speed that process is to set the world on fire.
| 194 |
Buck Dec 6, 2010 10:33:12am |
re: #185 SanFranciscoZionist
There is and was ample historical evidence that the USSR leadership were willing, and in some cases, actively motivated to, sacrifice their own people. I don’t know if we’re whitewashing the Sovs now, or building up the Iranians, but…
I think you are just disagreeing with me out of habit….
I say again, The USSR leadership were a completely different kind of crazy.
| 195 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 10:34:30am |
re: #193 NJDhockeyfan
Why do you think he’s telling the truth?
| 196 |
Gus Dec 6, 2010 10:34:59am |
re: #192 b_sharp
What colour is wanting more information before jumping to conclusions?
Pardon me while I blow my stack. I just don’t like what I’m reading and this place has gone from wanting to bomb Iran to the stone age to thinking they don’t don’t pose a threat. I’m finding it a bit hard to adjust.
I should go. Bye.
| 197 |
NJDhockeyfan Dec 6, 2010 10:35:25am |
| 198 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 10:35:35am |
re: #196 Gus 802
Nobody has said they don’t pose a threat.
| 199 |
Ding-an-sich Wannabe Dec 6, 2010 10:35:39am |
re: #192 b_sharp
Agreed. I, for one, am open to agreement with many possibilities, including extreme ones. But the example of Iraq’s war makes one wary.
| 201 |
kirkspencer Dec 6, 2010 10:54:35am |
From what I can tell, Assange isn’t a “information wants to be free” sort of guy. He’s more of the sort who thinks the wrong sorts are in charge and he can act to get them out so the right sorts get in.
Something he holds different from several other such revolutionaries (tea party, bircher, weathermen, whatever) is that he’s not solely aimed at the US. He’s put several other nations and organizations in his sights. In the process, of course, he’s put himself in several sights as well.
His operational plan is simple. Authoritarian organizations react to exposure by increasing secrecy. Increased secrecy works against effective communication, making the organization less agile, less flexible — giving it a slower OODA loop. This in turn will both make it more obviously bad to The People and make it more vulnerable to overturning.
Any and all actions should probably keep his intent in mind. To some extent he’s right, so part of the question is whether the increased communication barriers are worth the cost.
| 202 |
kirkspencer Dec 6, 2010 10:55:05am |
re: #201 kirkspencer
From what I can tell, Assange isn’t a “information wants to be free” sort of guy. He’s more of the sort who thinks the wrong sorts are in charge and he can act to get them out so the right sorts get in.
Something he holds different from several other such revolutionaries (tea party, bircher, weathermen, whatever) is that he’s not solely aimed at the US. He’s put several other nations and organizations in his sights. In the process, of course, he’s put himself in several sights as well.
His operational plan is simple. Authoritarian organizations react to exposure by increasing secrecy. Increased secrecy works against effective communication, making the organization less agile, less flexible — giving it a slower OODA loop. This in turn will both make it more obviously bad to The People and make it more vulnerable to overturning.
Any and all actions should probably keep his intent in mind. To some extent he’s right, so part of the question is whether the increased communication barriers are worth the cost.
sorry, wrong thread.
| 204 |
NJDhockeyfan Dec 6, 2010 11:03:41am |
Ahmadinejad says US planning to prevent coming of Mahdi
Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said he has documented evidence that the United States is doing what it can to prevent the coming of the Mahdi, the Imam that Muslims believe will be ultimate savior of mankind, press reports said Monday.
“We have documented proof that they [U.S.] believe that a descendant of the prophet of Islam will raise in these parts [Middle East] and he will dry the roots of all injustice in the world,” the hard-line president said, addressing an audience of families of those killed during the 1980’s war against Iraq.
“They have devised all these plans to prevent the coming of the Hidden Imam because they know that the Iranian nation is the one that will prepare the grounds for his coming and will be the supporters of his rule.”
| 205 |
SanFranciscoZionist Dec 6, 2010 11:11:50am |
re: #194 Buck
I think you are just disagreeing with me out of habit…
I say again, The USSR leadership were a completely different kind of crazy.
I think you’re disregarding my excellent point out of habit.
| 206 |
SanFranciscoZionist Dec 6, 2010 11:12:24am |
| 207 |
SanFranciscoZionist Dec 6, 2010 11:15:31am |
Iran is a huge threat. But I think we make a big mistake if we get fixated on one aspect of them, and ignore the others.
This Mahdi business—it’s relevant. But so is a whole lot of less-sexy geopolitical stuff.
| 208 |
Buck Dec 6, 2010 11:15:38am |
re: #195 Obdicut
Why do you think he’s telling the truth?
He is NOT telling the truth, he is saying what he wants people to think he believes. However, it is almost certainly not the truth.
| 209 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 11:17:32am |
re: #208 Buck
I agree. So take it up with NJDhockeyfan, who doesn’t.
| 210 |
garhighway Dec 6, 2010 12:36:56pm |
re: #172 Sergey Romanov
I know that this is a secondary consideration compared to overall security, but Iranians won’t get it - including the Greens. I talked at length with an Iranian who lives in Germany, a great secular guy, engineer and absolutely anti-Ahmadinejad and anti-theocratic, and in his opinion Iran absolutely had a right to have peaceful nuclear energy, it didn’t make sense to him why it wouldn’t. I suspect this would turn off Iranians from the West for a long time.
Agreed. They think they are a sovereign nation with the same rights to pursue advanced weaponry and power as other such nations. There is no way that nationalism doesn’t trump any other instinct if we bomb them: we will unify that country (against us) for a generation to come.
And while Wikileaks seems to indicate that this could endear us to various and sundry sheiks in the region, everyone else in the Islamic world would hate us all the more.
And it may not accomplish anything, given how hardened the sites are.
That’s why I think this is a really tough call.
| 211 |
garhighway Dec 6, 2010 12:43:43pm |
re: #188 Buck
It is a big country… and they can get on a plane any time they want. Not like they have to worry about a free press telling people about it.
It’s not much of a country is Tehran is leveled.
That’s what happens if they use a nuke. They know it, you know it, everyone knows it. It would be the end of Iran as an industrialized society, and by extension, then end of the mullah’s and Dinnerjacket’s ability to project power and influence. I have a hard time believing that those things won’t matter to them.
But we all seem to be focusing on the “what happens if we don’t act” side of the ledger. I am likewise interested in the “what happens if we DO act” side, about which the hawks remain conspicuously silent.
212 |
Usually refered to as anyways Dec 6, 2010 12:50:16pm |
What would happen if the USA strike first, but were unsuccessful at destroying Iran’s capabilities?
What then for Israel?
| 213 |
Usually refered to as anyways Dec 6, 2010 12:51:18pm |
re: #212 ozbloke
What would happen if the USA strike first, but were unsuccessful at destroying Iran’s capabilities?
What then for Israel?
Would an American president like to take that chance?
| 214 |
garhighway Dec 6, 2010 12:52:52pm |
re: #213 ozbloke
Would an American president like to take that chance?
It would be interesting to hear what advice the military is giving on that point.
| 215 |
Usually refered to as anyways Dec 6, 2010 12:57:56pm |
re: #214 garhighway
It would be interesting to hear what advice the military is giving on that point.
Agreed.
| 216 |
Buck Dec 6, 2010 2:07:27pm |
re: #209 Obdicut
I agree. So take it up with NJDhockeyfan, who doesn’t.
I am sure NDJ doesn’t think the 12th Iman myth is true…
BUT NDJ and I both agree that the Iranian leadership should be taken as seriously as possible, because THEY believe it.
Personally I think you are being disagreeable simply out of habit.
| 217 |
Buck Dec 6, 2010 2:14:11pm |
re: #211 garhighway
It’s not much of a country is Tehran is leveled.
That’s what happens if they use a nuke. They know it, you know it, everyone knows it. It would be the end of Iran as an industrialized society, and by extension, then end of the mullah’s and Dinnerjacket’s ability to project power and influence. I have a hard time believing that those things won’t matter to them.
We actually disagree on this. I think the Iranian leadership (Mullahs) are watching NK very closely. They know that the US and Israel can do nothing to stop them from making a weapon.
I also don’t think they believe that they will be retaliated against with Nukes. I don’t think they would even admit to using the nuke in the first place, but would get a proxy to deliver it. Much like Hezbollah, or Hamas it will be “third party bad actors” that do the actual attack, and although they will condemn the “terrorists”, it will be a case of “chickens coming home to roost”.
| 218 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 2:17:59pm |
re: #216 Buck
You’re contradicting yourself. You said:
He is NOT telling the truth, he is saying what he wants people to think he believes. However, it is almost certainly not the truth.
Personally I think you are being disagreeable simply out of habit.
That’s nice.
| 219 |
Buck Dec 6, 2010 3:26:32pm |
re: #218 Obdicut
You’re contradicting yourself. You said:
That’s nice.
There is no contradiction.
What he wants people to think he believes can be the same thing as what he believes. It just happens to not be the truth.
The idea that al-Māhdī did not die but rather was hidden by Allah and will later emerge is almost certainly NOT true, but Mahmoud Ahmadinejad seems to believe it.
To disagree with the idea that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad believes in the myth of the 12th Imam seems to me to be disagreeing just for the sake of it.
| 220 |
garhighway Dec 6, 2010 3:46:38pm |
re: #217 Buck
We actually disagree on this. I think the Iranian leadership (Mullahs) are watching NK very closely. They know that the US and Israel can do nothing to stop them from making a weapon.
I also don’t think they believe that they will be retaliated against with Nukes. I don’t think they would even admit to using the nuke in the first place, but would get a proxy to deliver it. Much like Hezbollah, or Hamas it will be “third party bad actors” that do the actual attack, and although they will condemn the “terrorists”, it will be a case of “chickens coming home to roost”.
That scenario is certainly theoretically possible. But the Iranians have to ask them selves “Who in the world do we trust with a nuclear weapon?” I’d be really surprised if that question yields a long list. They would also have to ask themselves whether, if a nuke were detonated inside Israel, there was any force on Earth that could stop the Israelis from putting a couple into Tehran. Because my read of the Israelis is that it would be a sure thing.
So if you are Iran, and you aren’t suicidal as a nation (which I don’t think they are, their posturing aside) you have to ask yourself whether letting a proxy (if you can find one you trust enough) detonate one inside Israel is a good idea, seeing as it creates a high risk that your nation as you know it would cease to exist shortly thereafter.
| 221 |
Buck Dec 6, 2010 3:59:10pm |
re: #220 garhighway
That scenario is certainly theoretically possible. But the Iranians have to ask them selves “Who in the world do we trust with a nuclear weapon?” I’d be really surprised if that question yields a long list. They would also have to ask themselves whether, if a nuke were detonated inside Israel, there was any force on Earth that could stop the Israelis from putting a couple into Tehran. Because my read of the Israelis is that it would be a sure thing.
So if you are Iran, and you aren’t suicidal as a nation (which I don’t think they are, their posturing aside) you have to ask yourself whether letting a proxy (if you can find one you trust enough) detonate one inside Israel is a good idea, seeing as it creates a high risk that your nation as you know it would cease to exist shortly thereafter.
I disagree with almost every assumption you make.
I will say this. I would have thought that if NK were to, with no provocation, sink a South Korean ship there would have been a military response at least equal in nature. I would have thought that if North Korea were to, with no provocation, shell South Korea there would have been a military response at least equal in nature.
It would seem not. In both those cases, there wasn’t even the strongly worded letter.
| 222 |
Usually refered to as anyways Dec 6, 2010 4:03:15pm |
re: #221 Buck
I disagree with almost every assumption you make.
I will say this. I would have thought that if NK were to, with no provocation, sink a South Korean ship there would have been a military response at least equal in nature. I would have thought that if North Korea were to, with no provocation, shell South Korea there would have been a military response at least equal in nature.
It would seem not. In both those cases, there wasn’t even the strongly worded letter.
I would have though when NK detonated there first nuclear weapon there would have b…
Sorry forgot, wrong President.
| 223 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 4:09:22pm |
re: #219 Buck
That doesn’t fit what you actually said, though. You said:
He is NOT telling the truth, he is saying what he wants people to think he believes.
Which implies it’s not what he actually believes.
Of course it’s not the truth that the Mahdi is in a well. Jesus.
To disagree with the idea that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad believes in the myth of the 12th Imam seems to me to be disagreeing just for the sake of it.
You’re psychic, and you can tell what Ahmadinejad believes?
| 224 |
Buck Dec 6, 2010 4:12:50pm |
re: #222 ozbloke
I would have though when NK detonated there first nuclear weapon there would have b…
Sorry forgot, wrong President.
Do you think I am saying anything about the President? I wasn’t… but if I did, I would point out that the incredibly naive agreement signed in Oct. 1994 was the direct cause of the 2002 breakdown.
However in this case I am criticizing the UN, and the world inaction to real evil when they are faced with it.
| 225 |
Buck Dec 6, 2010 4:16:04pm |
re: #223 Obdicut
Which implies it’s not what he actually believes.
No it doesn’t.
You’re psychic, and you can tell what Ahmadinejad believes?
I don’t have to be psychic to take him at his word. In fact I put it to you that one would have to be psychic to be so sure that he was lying.
| 226 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 4:24:22pm |
re: #225 Buck
I don’t have to be psychic to take him at his word.
Nope. But why believe him? Especially since you said, if I can remind you:
He is NOT telling the truth, he is saying what he wants people to think he believes.
Which was very accurate. He’s saying what he wants people to think he believes.
For some reason, you’re deciding to believe him.
Why?
In fact I put it to you that one would have to be psychic to be so sure that he was lying.
I’m not sure he’s lying. As I already said, I’m in no way an expert on such things.
Are you?
| 227 |
Buck Dec 6, 2010 4:29:51pm |
re: #226 Obdicut
I’m not sure he’s lying.
And that is why I think you are just disagreeing for the sake of it.
Again I repeat that what he wants people to think he believes can be the same thing as what he actually believes.
| 228 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 4:36:23pm |
re: #227 Buck
Again I repeat that what he wants people to think he believes can be the same thing as what he actually believes.
It can be. But it’s not necessarily so.
Why do you believe him?
| 229 |
Buck Dec 6, 2010 4:59:16pm |
re: #228 Obdicut
It can be. But it’s not necessarily so.
Why do you believe him?
I have been reading and watching this situation for many years. There are a lot of other people, who’s opinions and judgement I respect saying the same thing.
I have heard him talk about it, and read his responses over the years. I can find NO reason not to believe him. I can think of NO motivation for him to lie about it.
I could list a whole bunch of actions and speeches that he has done over the years, but I really don’t need to prove it to you. It really does seem strange to me that you are arguing about this.
| 230 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 5:02:00pm |
re: #229 Buck
I can find NO reason not to believe him. I can think of NO motivation for him to lie about it.
Really? Even though you already said it’s what he wants people to think he believes?
He wants people to think he believes it. That’s what you said.
Right?
| 231 |
Buck Dec 6, 2010 5:03:28pm |
re: #226 Obdicut
I’m in no way an expert on such things.
Are you?
It seems that only people who disagree with you must be an expert on the subject in order to do so.
If you really haven’t even formed a opinion on the subject, your arguing seems forced.
| 232 |
Buck Dec 6, 2010 5:08:30pm |
re: #230 Obdicut
Really? Even though you already said it’s what he wants people to think he believes?
He wants people to think he believes it. That’s what you said.
Right?
Yes. For the forth time, I don’t see a contradiction. What he wants people to think he believes can be the same thing as what he actually believes.
And before you repeat yourself, I agree that it’s not necessarily so. BUT in this case I believe that it is. EVEN though I said he wants people to think he believes it.
NOW, please repeat the two paragraphs above over and over without me.
| 233 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 5:20:57pm |
re: #232 Buck
And before you repeat yourself, I agree that it’s not necessarily so. BUT in this case I believe that it is. EVEN though I said he wants people to think he believes it.
So, at least you’ll admit this is wrong, right?
I can find NO reason not to believe him. I can think of NO motivation for him to lie about it.
I mean, you said he wants people to think that that’s what he believes. So isn’t that a motivation that you, yourself, have thought of?
| 234 |
Buck Dec 6, 2010 5:29:28pm |
re: #233 Obdicut
So, at least you’ll admit this is wrong, right?/blockquote>
No, I do not admit it is wrong. You are not reading anything I am writing. You keep repeating, what is now becoming a lie. There is no way possible for you to think I admit it is wrong. I have been way beyond clear on this.
I mean, you said he wants people to think that that’s what he believes. So isn’t that a motivation that you, yourself, have thought of?
It is NOT a motivation to lie. I have no idea why you would think that it is.
| 235 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 6, 2010 5:35:02pm |
re: #234 Buck
It is NOT a motivation to lie. I have no idea why you would think that it is.
So he wants people to think that’s what he believes. But that’s not a motivation to lie so that they’ll think that’s what he believes.
Why not?
| 236 |
Buck Dec 7, 2010 7:29:29am |
re: #235 Obdicut
So he wants people to think that’s what he believes. But that’s not a motivation to lie so that they’ll think that’s what he believes.
Why not?
ONE LAST TIME:
Because it is what he believes. What he wants people to think he believes can be the same thing as what he actually believes.
I think we don’t speak the same language.
| 237 |
Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut Dec 7, 2010 7:59:21am |
re: #236 Buck
You don’t know that’s what he believes. You just think it is.
In other words, you believe what he wants you to believe— and yet somehow you can’t even entertain the possibility that he’s lying to you, precisely so that you’ll believe what he wants you to believe.
Why not?
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