Now the Right Wants to Redefine ‘Preventive’ to Exclude Contraceptives

The right wing war against women’s rights
Health • Views: 32,621

When the GOP made big gains in the 2010 midterm election, I predicted that we were going to see a full-out onslaught against women’s rights — and today we learned of the latest front in this misogynist war, as the religious right tries to redefine the word “preventive” in order to deny women birth control.

Dr. Hal C. Lawrence III, vice president of the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, said contraceptives fit any reasonable definition of preventive health care because they averted unintended pregnancies and allowed women to control the timing, number and spacing of births. This, in turn, improves maternal and child health by reducing infant mortality, complications of pregnancy and even birth defects, said Dr. Lawrence, who is in charge of the group’s practice guidelines.

But the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and some conservative groups, including the Family Research Council, say birth control is not a preventive service in the usual sense of the term.

“Pregnancy is not a disease to be prevented, nor is fertility a pathological condition,” said Deirdre A. McQuade, a spokeswoman for the bishops’ Pro-Life Secretariat. “So birth control is not preventive care, and it should not be mandated.”

The Family Research Council was recently listed as an an anti-gay hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, but here they are with a voice in national policies that affect women. And why do Catholic bishops have any say in political decisions?

We don’t need to go to Afghanistan to fight the Taliban — the same Dark Ages views are running rampant right here in the United States.

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247 comments
1 Kragar  Feb 7, 2011 10:24:00am

You fucking bastards.

Thank god I live in the liberal hell hole of the West Coast.

2 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Feb 7, 2011 10:24:22am

Pregnancy isn’t a disease. It is, however, a medical condition with severe repercussions.

What transparent assholery.

3 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 10:25:24am

DON’T GET ME STARTED!

2012 is going to be a land-slide for Obama. Hell, he won’t even have to campaign. He can just let the voters listen to the Republicans and they’ll vote for anything but.

4 Varek Raith  Feb 7, 2011 10:26:42am

Where the hell am I?
Sure as hell doesn’t sound like America.

5 Romantic Heretic  Feb 7, 2011 10:27:38am

These people can’t sink any lower, can they? Please tell me they’re going to stop soon.

6 Lidane  Feb 7, 2011 10:27:40am

And yet these same assholes would bend over backwards to find a reason to cover Viagra and other drugs like it.

Give men everything they need to keep having babies until they die, but a woman can’t prevent an unwanted pregnancy at all. I’ve said it before and will say it again — fuck these people.

7 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 10:28:50am

This is the worst I’ve seen it in years. They may in fact have reverted back to a time worse then the 1980s when Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson reigned supreme. Backwards, archaic, revanchist, etc., are many words that come to mind.

8 Interesting Times  Feb 7, 2011 10:28:50am

I now feel fully justified in posting the following comment I found on a Facebook thread:

“Every republican man should be impregnated in their colons to full gestation. Forced to carry it to term. Then, they’re so full of shit already they probably wouldn’t notice the difference. But at least they’d be forced to provide for their offspring this time.”

9 Lidane  Feb 7, 2011 10:29:44am

re: #5 Romantic Heretic

These people can’t sink any lower, can they? Please tell me they’re going to stop soon.

You’re kidding, right? They’d find a way to justify covering women in full body veils if they could find a justification for it in the Bible.

These people hate women. It’s as simple as that.

10 Feline Fearless Leader  Feb 7, 2011 10:30:09am

re: #8 publicityStunted

I now feel fully justified in posting the following comment I found on a Facebook thread:

“Every republican man should be impregnated in their colons to full gestation. Forced to carry it to term. Then, they’re so full of shit already they probably wouldn’t notice the difference. But at least they’d be forced to provide for their offspring this time.”

But do you really want them to reproduce and get the time to raise offspring in their own image?

Or will these be liberal implants with different genetic code?

//

11 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Feb 7, 2011 10:30:40am

> United States Conference of Catholic Bishops

How about you guys deal with the abuse cases in your ranks first?

12 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 10:32:03am

Wingnuts (yes that includes some Republicans) want to adopt the Vatican policy for Africa to America. Behold! Back to a time when contraceptives were considered immoral!

13 RadicalModerate  Feb 7, 2011 10:33:27am

Given the Christian Right’s attempt to redefine rape, deny women basic health services, and basically attempt to redefine them as second-class citizens, how long will it be before they try to rewrite family violence laws back to the 1950s? It’s clearly headed in that direction.

14 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Feb 7, 2011 10:33:28am

Anybody catch the recent news that having babies too close together raises the risk of autism?

15 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 10:33:43am

re: #5 Romantic Heretic

These people can’t sink any lower, can they? Please tell me they’re going to stop soon.

No, they won’t stop. They’ll continue until they are marginalized to the status of Jim Jones and the normal people who consider themselves christians will begin to rethink their belief system.

I’m not an over religious person, but I do think there are a lot of positives to religion. People who get their value system and derive comfort from it will begin looking elsewhere because they won’t want to be identified with the Whackos™.

16 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 10:34:03am

re: #11 Sergey Romanov

> United States Conference of Catholic Bishops

How about you guys deal with the abuse cases in your ranks first?

Haven’t you heard? Those really aren’t abuse cases. It was the workings of The Devil™. The priests were merely victims.

/

17 Decatur Deb  Feb 7, 2011 10:34:16am

re: #3 ggt

DON’T GET ME STARTED!

2012 is going to be a land-slide for Obama. Hell, he won’t even have to campaign. He can just let the voters listen to the Republicans and they’ll vote for anything but.

Only if:

1) Unemployment is around 7% and

2) We work our asses off getting the Republican “message” out.

18 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 10:34:26am

re: #7 Gus 802

This is the worst I’ve seen it in years. They may in fact have reverted back to a time worse then the 1980s when Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson reigned supreme. Backwards, archaic, revanchist, etc., are many words that come to mind.

The Whackos want to go farther back than that.

Think Anthony Comstock.

19 Lidane  Feb 7, 2011 10:34:57am

re: #13 RadicalModerate

Given the Christian Right’s attempt to redefine rape, deny women basic health services, and basically attempt to redefine them as second-class citizens, how long will it be before they try to rewrite family violence laws back to the 1950s 1650s? It’s clearly headed in that direction.

FTFY

20 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 10:35:17am

re: #18 ggt

The Whackos want to go farther back than that.

Think Anthony Comstock.

Maybe even further back. Back to a time when they had little belt buckles on shoes.

21 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 10:35:38am

Curious to know if the two groups mentioned have expressed similar outrage over insurance companies identifying pregnancy as a pre-existing condition that excludes one from coverage.

22 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Feb 7, 2011 10:36:14am

re: #20 Gus 802

Maybe even further back. Back to a time when they had little belt buckles on shoes.

The Separatists didn’t have buckles on their shoes.

Or their hats.

23 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 10:36:14am

re: #14 EmmmieG

Anybody catch the recent news that having babies too close together raises the risk of autism?

I’m very sure it raises the risk of parents having a dang nervous breakdown.

24 MarkAM  Feb 7, 2011 10:36:49am

It’s not only women’s rights (though that’s a big part of it.) This bunch doesn’t believe in sex for anything other than procreation.

While they won’t go so far as advocating stoning, they do think that non-procreative sex is worthy of punishment.

25 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 10:37:04am

re: #22 EmmmieG

The Separatists didn’t have buckles on their shoes.

Or their hats.

I meant the Puritans.

Image: 211409798.jpg

26 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 10:37:22am

re: #20 Gus 802

Maybe even further back. Back to a time when they had little belt buckles on shoes.

There wasn’t much concern about abortion back then.

27 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 10:37:35am

re: #23 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m very sure it raises the risk of parents having a dang nervous breakdown.

The old sterotype of the woman having no intellectual abilities and being an “emotional” creature would be true for me if I had 6 or 7 children in as many years.

28 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Feb 7, 2011 10:37:39am

re: #23 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m very sure it raises the risk of parents having a dang nervous breakdown.

I had four in six years*, but that’s nothing. My sister had four in four (not on purpose).

These people should talk to her about what it’s like.

*That’s one every two years, if you’re counting.

29 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 10:38:16am

re: #27 ggt

The old sterotype of the woman having no intellectual abilities and being an “emotional” creature would be true for me if I had 6 or 7 children in as many years.

And what kind of life for those children?

30 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 10:38:21am

re: #26 SanFranciscoZionist

There wasn’t much concern about abortion back then.

Details, details. This all evolved from that same “philosophy”.

31 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Feb 7, 2011 10:39:05am

re: #25 Gus 802

I meant the Puritans.

Image: 211409798.jpg

They didn’t have buckles on their shoes, either.

Although Wyeth is one of my favorite artists.

The people who celebrated the first Thanksgiving with Squanto and friends were Separatists.

32 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 10:40:19am

Intelligenti pauca.

33 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 10:40:28am

re: #24 MarkAM

It’s not only women’s rights (though that’s a big part of it.) This bunch doesn’t believe in sex for anything other than procreation.

Has it not occurred to the bishops that their American Family Goodness Research Council on Values friends are nowhere to be found when there’s legislation to be passed to help the poor?

34 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Feb 7, 2011 10:40:36am

re: #27 ggt

The old sterotype of the woman having no intellectual abilities and being an “emotional” creature would be true for me if I had 6 or 7 children in as many years.

I will let you in on a little secret: You’d be very tired and sick a lot.

On the other hand, you’re out of diapers and done quickly.

35 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 10:40:59am

I know families chose to have many children without a lot of resources. They seem to be made for it. Everyone is happy and healtlhy.

Not everyone is able to do that.

The Right-Wing fantasy of the large family is just that.

It’s just their way of trying to make sure the brown people don’t outbreed the white people. It has nothing to do with the life of the child, or the souls of those those involved.

36 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 10:41:47am

re: #34 EmmmieG

I will let you in on a little secret: You’d be very tired and sick a lot.

On the other hand, you’re out of diapers and done quickly.

I’d be drunk under a bridge or in the psych ward. I know my limits. . .

37 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 10:42:01am

Um. My point wasn’t meant to convey a specific historical accuracy regarding fashion. Intelligenti pauca.

38 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 10:42:40am

How do these people feel about inter-racial babies?

39 Decatur Deb  Feb 7, 2011 10:43:51am

re: #38 ggt

How do these people feel about inter-racial babies?

Often fond of them. Not fond of them if they grow up to be President.

40 jaunte  Feb 7, 2011 10:44:02am

re: #38 ggt

Jeanne Monahan is probably way too busy with politics to adopt any.
twitter.com

41 Lidane  Feb 7, 2011 10:45:04am

re: #38 ggt

How do these people feel about inter-racial babies?

They only care if the women having them don’t abort and don’t expect any welfare or government aid at all. Otherwise, the kid’s on their own.

42 Rightwingconspirator  Feb 7, 2011 10:45:07am

What amazes me is how inexpensive contraception is. Compare birth control pills or condoms to almost any prescription drug or medical device. The GOP has started a big fight over fractions of a penny here. Viagra is very expensive compared to birth control. Tjis just can not be about the money, it’s another case of imposing a particular set of morals upon us via insurance exclusions.

Since Viagra and birth control should must be covered by insurance I guess that would be coverage coming and going. Uh, so to speak. //

43 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 10:45:43am

re: #42 Rightwingconspirator

What amazes me is how inexpensive contraception is. Compare birth control pills or condoms to almost any prescription drug or medical device. The GOP has started a big fight over fractions of a penny here. Viagra is very expensive compared to birth control. Tjis just can not be about the money, it’s another case of imposing a particular set of morals upon us via insurance exclusions.

Since Viagra and birth control should must be covered by insurance I guess that would be coverage coming and going. Uh, so to speak. //

Oh, but Viagra PROMOTES life.

gah!

44 Lidane  Feb 7, 2011 10:46:41am

re: #43 ggt

Oh, but Viagra PROMOTES life.

gah!

Yep. Viagra promotes life, but birth control prevents it from happening and is therefore evil.

45 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Feb 7, 2011 10:47:52am

I can’t understand why any insurance company wouldn’t cover birth control.

Cost-wise, it’s a really good deal. Kids are expensive.

Cute, but needy.

46 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 10:48:15am

re: #44 Lidane

Yep. Viagra promotes life gives men control, but birth control prevents it from happening and is therefore evil.

ftfy

47 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Feb 7, 2011 10:48:52am

conservapedia.com

Until 1965, some US states criminalized the possession and/or distribution of contraceptives for reasons of public morality on the grounds that contraception would encourage premarital sex. In the 1965 Supreme Court case of Griswold v. Connecticut, activist judges invented a constitutional right to contraception. The 1972 case of Eisenstadt v. Baird later extended this invented right to include even unmarried couples, rendering any legal attempt to restrict access impossible.

Horror.

48 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 10:50:04am

re: #47 Sergey Romanov

[Link: www.conservapedia.com…]

Horror.

Yep, the real Supreme Court case that freed women. But Roe V Wade get’s all the attention.

49 Stanley Sea  Feb 7, 2011 10:51:13am

This is the American Taliban.

50 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 10:51:25am

re: #28 EmmmieG

I had four in six years*, but that’s nothing. My sister had four in four (not on purpose).

These people should talk to her about what it’s like.

*That’s one every two years, if you’re counting.

Fertility is something else the modern age has allowed to outstrip the leisurely pace of evolution. There are a number of factors, but the most important may be that in the first world, we now have an extremely low rate of children dying in infancy or early childhood. We’ve also got an extremely well-nourished group of women giving birth, and a very low rate of death in childbirth.

Contraception is absolutely essential to the world we’ve created. It doesn’t WORK any other way. We could breed like rabbits, now, all the barriers nature created are down.

I’m reminded of something I read in a college class, the diary of an English Puritan. Middle-class bloke, very nice except when it comes to Quakers. There is a delightful scene where he’s driving one of the kids to an apprenticeship outside of town, and she starts to cry. He says he would have taken her right home, except his wife would have killed him.

One thing that becomes clear, reading it, is that he and his wife are family planning to the best of their ability. They’re basically doing a version of the rhythm method. The point, as our professor explained it, was not to have no children, but to have six instead of twelve, so that you could adequately provide for all of them.

And this is the freaking seventeenth century, and a group of people who we turn to as a model of piety.

Take note.

51 abbyadams  Feb 7, 2011 10:51:56am

So, once upon a time, Republicans were worried that the Pope would have influence (see JFK,) and now they’re hoping the pope will have influence? We’ve come a long way, baby.

52 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 10:52:01am

re: #30 Gus 802

Details, details. This all evolved from that same “philosophy”.

Not sure about that. We have a broad Calvinist streak in us, sure, but this sexual busy-bodying is a Victorian affliction.

53 MarkAM  Feb 7, 2011 10:53:10am

And for many of them, the agenda is about reversing Griswold and eliminating the right to privacy. With a Republican president and a couple of Supreme Court appointments, such a reversal might well happen. One of many reasons to be glad McCain didn’t get elected.

re: #47 Sergey Romanov

re: #47 Sergey Romanov

54 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 10:53:39am

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

Not sure about that. We have a broad Calvinist streak in us, sure, but this sexual busy-bodying is a Victorian affliction.

There is something (brain cells are failing me now) about when the Church took the midwifery business and basically burned it. Only “doctors” (code for Men) could assist in a delivery …?

55 Decatur Deb  Feb 7, 2011 10:53:44am

re: #51 abbyadams

So, once upon a time, Republicans were worried that the Pope would have influence (see JFK,) and now they’re hoping the pope will have influence? We’ve come a long way, baby.

Republicans are cool with the Pope—he’s a vet.

56 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Feb 7, 2011 10:54:21am

The idea that Christian Sharia law should be brought to America has been bantered around on Redstate for a while. What scares me more is that there is a pretty big portion of the US population that would passively support something like that. Remember at least 1/4 of the Republicans would outlaw/ban birth control; griswold v. connecticut be damned.

I honestly think the extreme social conservatism today has more in common with the Taliban than it does with the America Constitution. Thankfully, they’re just rarely resorting to violence and murder (CF: Tiller) to intimidate and cow the rest of us. Well, rarely for now.

57 jaunte  Feb 7, 2011 10:54:40am

re: #52 SanFranciscoZionist

I don’t think it’s so much a matter of sex, as a matter of controlling people conservatives don’t like.

58 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 10:54:57am

re: #43 ggt

Oh, but Viagra PROMOTES life.

gah!

Yes. Men were thrilled when Viagra came out, because now they would be able to have the big families they’d always dreamed of.

//

59 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Feb 7, 2011 10:55:48am

re: #58 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes. Men were thrilled when Viagra came out, because now they would be able to have the big families they’d always dreamed of.

//

At 85.

60 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 10:55:48am

re: #57 jaunte

I don’t think it’s so much a matter of sex, as a matter of controlling people conservatives don’t like.

There is some psychological connect between “control” and “sex” for some men.

It’s all part in parcel —“my dick is bigger than your dick” mentality.

61 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 10:56:12am

re: #58 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes. Men were thrilled when Viagra came out, because now they would be able to have the big families they’d always dreamed of.

//

Prove their masculinity… .

62 Charles Johnson  Feb 7, 2011 10:57:04am

re: #24 MarkAM

It’s not only women’s rights (though that’s a big part of it.) This bunch doesn’t believe in sex for anything other than procreation.

While they won’t go so far as advocating stoning, they do think that non-procreative sex is worthy of punishment.

Actually, some Christian Reconstructionists do indeed advocate stoning as punishment for infidelity or adultery.

63 Decatur Deb  Feb 7, 2011 10:57:09am

re: #58 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes. Men were thrilled when Viagra came out, because now they would be able to have the big families they’d always dreamed of.

//

re: #59 EmmmieG

re: #61 ggt

I think you’re missing the root of the problem.

64 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 10:57:11am

re: #58 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes. Men were thrilled when Viagra came out, because now they would be able to have the big families they’d always dreamed of.

//

Then blame the woman for getting pregnant again.

65 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 10:57:43am

re: #62 Charles

Actually, some Christian Reconstructionists do indeed advocate stoning as punishment for infidelity or adultery.

For both men and women?

66 Walter L. Newton  Feb 7, 2011 10:58:24am

re: #62 Charles

Actually, some Christian Reconstructionists do indeed advocate stoning as punishment for infidelity or adultery.

alternet.org

67 Kragar  Feb 7, 2011 10:58:54am

re: #62 Charles

Actually, some Christian Reconstructionists do indeed advocate stoning as punishment for infidelity or adultery.

I guess they skipped over that little part where Jesus talked about tossing the first stone.

68 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 10:59:30am

re: #54 ggt

There is something (brain cells are failing me now) about when the Church took the midwifery business and basically burned it. Only “doctors” (code for Men) could assist in a delivery …?

The professionalizing of childbirth out of the hands of midwives didn’t develop until very recently, as in the end of the nineteenth century, and the Church was not involved…but the Church and midwives had a complicated and not always positive relationship. Got worse in the late Renaissance with the witchcraft obsession.

69 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 10:59:36am

re: #63 Decatur Deb

re: #59 EmmmieG

re: #61 ggt

I think you’re missing the root of the problem.

The instinctual drive to make sure one’s DNA survives?

70 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 10:59:44am

re: #55 Decatur Deb

Republicans are cool with the Pope—he’s a vet.

Owwww….

71 Decatur Deb  Feb 7, 2011 11:00:05am

re: #69 ggt

The instinctual drive to make sure one’s DNA survives?

No.

72 Charles Johnson  Feb 7, 2011 11:00:37am

re: #66 Walter L. Newton

[Link: www.alternet.org…]

Yes, Gary North is one of those freaks. And note that this isn’t really a “fringe” group - they have significant political influence.

73 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 11:01:38am

OK, I quickly found this. I did not vet it or verify it, eieio.

The Price of Adultery in Puritan Massachusetts, 1641

This is the story of Mary Latham an eighteen-year-old girl who strayed from the moral path of her Puritan community and paid for her transgression with her life. Mary suffered from unrequited love. Spurned by the object of her affection, she resolved to wed the first man who came along. She carried out her threat by marrying a much older man for whom she could muster no fondness.

Mary was what we today would call a “Party Girl.” She apparently liked a good time and it wasn’t long after her wedding that she was seduced by the overtures of several young men (married and unmarried) to join in drinking parties that often led to sex. One of her companions was James Britton, a recently arrived professor from England. After the act (and the onset of an illness he presumed was a punishment) Britton’s conscience persuaded him to confess his action. This was the start of Mary’s misfortunes, for the Massachusetts colony had that very year constructed its first code of laws and among these was the penalty of death for the crime of adultery.

“The woman proved very penitent…”

John Winthrop was the first Governor of Massachusetts Colony. He describes the plight of Mary Latham in his diaries:

“At this court of assistants one James Britton, a man ill affected both to our church discipline and civil government, and one Mary Latham, a proper young woman about 18 years of age, whose father was a godly man and had brought her up well, were condemned to die for adultery…

[…]

They were both executed, they both died very penitently, especially the woman, who had some comfortable hope of pardon of her sin, and gave good exhortation to all young maids to be obedient to their parents, and to take heed of evil company.”

No, this is not comparable to what today’s theocrats are proposing today by any strech of the imagination. I am merely showing that the Puritans were in fact religious extremists. The Puritans also paved the way for what we consider religious extremist in America today.

74 moderatelyradicalliberal  Feb 7, 2011 11:01:47am

re: #3 ggt

DON’T GET ME STARTED!

2012 is going to be a land-slide for Obama. Hell, he won’t even have to campaign. He can just let the voters listen to the Republicans and they’ll vote for anything but.

Agreed. All he has to do is run ads with a list of the laws the GOP in the House passed with a voiceover saying a Democrat in the White House is the only reason these bills didn’t become law.

“I’m Barack Obama and I didn’t approve any of this crazy shit”

75 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 11:02:07am

S-t-r-e-t-c-h

76 moderatelyradicalliberal  Feb 7, 2011 11:02:57am

re: #5 Romantic Heretic

These people can’t sink any lower, can they? Please tell me they’re going to stop soon.

Seriously, how did the GOP get this bad and how is it they can still win elections?

77 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Feb 7, 2011 11:03:00am

re: #67 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I guess they skipped over that little part where Jesus talked about tossing the first stone.

I was going to say something, but I’m currently handicapped by cold medication.

“Don’t throw rocks at people” is pretty hard to miss.

My favorite is Luke 18:10-14. That’s the one about the repentant sinner being better than the arrogantly proud righteous man.

78 Lidane  Feb 7, 2011 11:05:18am

re: #76 moderatelyradicalliberal

Seriously, how did the GOP get this bad and how is it they can still win elections?

That’s just it— they’ve been this bad for decades if people truly cared to look. None of this is new. It’s just that the party bosses managed to keep a lid on all this idiocy by throwing red meat about God, guns and gays for the last few decades. Once Obama got elected, all bets were off. The inmates are now running the asylum.

79 jaunte  Feb 7, 2011 11:05:46am

re: #77 EmmmieG

My favorite is Luke 18:10-14. That’s the one about the repentant sinner being better than the arrogantly proud righteous man.


Problem with passages like that, when people like members of the FRC interpret their meaning, they cast themselves as the repentant, and their targets as the arrogantly proud.

80 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 11:06:33am

I propose a word change.

We should change theocrats to theopublicans.

//

81 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 11:07:05am

re: #73 Gus 802


No, this is not comparable to what today’s theocrats are proposing today by any strech of the imagination. I am merely showing that the Puritans were in fact religious extremists. The Puritans also paved the way for what we consider religious extremist in America today.

Oh, they were religious extremists. They were NUTS. They also created an enormously paranoid and ugly society. Puritan New England, Calvin’s Geneva—they were not nice places to live.

82 Decatur Deb  Feb 7, 2011 11:07:17am

re: #78 Lidane

That’s just it— they’ve been this bad for decades if people truly cared to look. None of this is new. It’s just that the party bosses managed to keep a lid on all this idiocy by throwing red meat about God, guns and gays for the last few decades. Once Obama got elected, all bets were off. The inmates are now running the asylum.

There are still sane Repubs out there, but most are being vewy, vewy quiet.

83 moderatelyradicalliberal  Feb 7, 2011 11:07:28am

re: #49 Stanley Sea

This is the American Taliban.

Yes it is.

84 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 11:07:30am

re: #74 moderatelyradicalliberal

Agreed. All he has to do is run ads with a list of the laws the GOP in the House passed with a voiceover saying a Democrat in the White House is the only reason these bills didn’t become law.

“I’m Barack Obama and I didn’t approve any of this crazy shit”

The gentleman from New York died. Mr. Buckley kept the Whackos™ at bay.

85 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Feb 7, 2011 11:07:53am

re: #24 MarkAM

It’s not only women’s rights (though that’s a big part of it.) This bunch doesn’t believe in sex for anything other than procreation.

While they won’t go so far as advocating stoning, they do think that non-procreative sex is worthy of punishment.

Well, unwanted pregnancy is seen as a form of punishment for sex outside of marriage.

86 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Feb 7, 2011 11:08:01am

re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, they were religious extremists. They were NUTS. They also created an enormously paranoid and ugly society. Puritan New England, Calvin’s Geneva—they were not nice places to live.

They’ve become the subjects of any number of video games, though.

87 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 11:08:07am

re: #84 ggt

The gentleman from New York died. Mr. Buckley kept the Whackos™ at bay.

eh, was supposed to be a response to your #86.

88 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 11:08:50am

re: #82 Decatur Deb

There are still sane Repubs out there, but most are being vewy, vewy quiet.

Most of them haven’t realized the Party was pulled from under them.

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 11:09:38am

re: #80 Gus 802

I propose a word change.

We should change theocrats to theopublicans.

//

For some reason, I’m remembering a passage in Gone With The Wind, of all things, where newly freed slaves are being encouraged to join the Republican party. One of the talking points is that only two political parties are mentioned in the Bible—the Publicans and the Sinners—and who wants to join a political party made up entirely of Sinners?

//I have no idea what this means, but at least it’s funny. The guy who cost the Democrats Condi Rice was NOT funny, and I would kick his ass if I didn’t presume he was dead by now.

90 moderatelyradicalliberal  Feb 7, 2011 11:10:10am

re: #78 Lidane

That’s just it— they’ve been this bad for decades if people truly cared to look. None of this is new. It’s just that the party bosses managed to keep a lid on all this idiocy by throwing red meat about God, guns and gays for the last few decades. Once Obama got elected, all bets were off. The inmates are now running the asylum.

Oh yes, how could I forget? Black man won the presidency.

91 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 11:10:15am

re: #82 Decatur Deb

There are still sane Repubs out there, but most are being vewy, vewy quiet.

Or just peeking through their fingers occasionally, to see if the weird people are still on the lawn.

92 Feline Fearless Leader  Feb 7, 2011 11:10:20am

re: #80 Gus 802

I propose a word change.

We should change theocrats to theopublicans.

//

Wouldn’t theopublicans be those who debate the philosophical value and meaning of beer and drinking establishments?

93 calochortus  Feb 7, 2011 11:10:33am

Let’s hop into the way-back machine and check on the 1960s when conservatives often supported birth control in the third world because they saw that unchecked population growth was a destablizing influence. That all changed and in the 80’s a lot of Arab countries in particular started sending women home to have babies. We can see how well that worked as we look at the masses of young unemployed males who are now unable to marry and support a wife and family.

94 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 11:10:49am

re: #86 EmmmieG

They’ve become the subjects of any number of video games, though.

Really?

95 Decatur Deb  Feb 7, 2011 11:11:03am

re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, they were religious extremists. They were NUTS. They also created an enormously paranoid and ugly society. Puritan New England, Calvin’s Geneva—they were not nice places to live.

A good number of colonists couldn’t hack it and went over the hill to the local tribes—most had liberal adoption policies.

96 Lidane  Feb 7, 2011 11:11:15am

re: #82 Decatur Deb

There are still sane Repubs out there, but most are being vewy, vewy quiet.

Correction — there are people who still want to be sane Republicans out there. Problem is, the party is completely off the rails since 2008. If you’re not in line with this sort of garbage, or with Caribou Barbie or the JBS/Tea Party types, you’re not a Republican at all. You’re a RINO and a traitor.

97 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Feb 7, 2011 11:12:22am

re: #94 SanFranciscoZionist

Really?

If you like the hidden picture types of games, Big Fish Games comes up with no fewer than three Salem Witch trials games.

And those are just ones released in the last two years or so.

98 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 11:13:09am

re: #92 oaktree

Wouldn’t theopublicans be those who debate the philosophical value and meaning of beer and drinking establishments?

I think there are several definitions. Here’s one I like:

By the time of the Renaissance, the word “publican” meant a tavernkeeper (the licensed landlord of a public house), and by extension a slang term for a pimp.

Hence theopublicans could be defined as “pimps for theologians”.

//

99 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 11:13:11am

re: #95 Decatur Deb

A good number of colonists couldn’t hack it and went over the hill to the local tribes—most had liberal adoption policies.

I was reading a novel about the Salem Witch trials, recently. Apparently, the father of one of the young women involved was an Anglican, who flatly refused to the do the Separatist thing. He would row himself to Marblehead of a Sunday, weather permitting, to go to the COE church there.

They were, of course, early targets.

100 BishopX  Feb 7, 2011 11:13:38am

re: #66 Walter L. Newton

[Link: www.alternet.org…]

I find hilarious that the bible browser plugin advertised in there uses the Buddy Jesus Icon from Dogma. Some one missed the point.

101 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Feb 7, 2011 11:13:56am

re: #99 SanFranciscoZionist

I was reading a novel about the Salem Witch trials, recently. Apparently, the father of one of the young women involved was an Anglican, who flatly refused to the do the Separatist thing. He would row himself to Marblehead of a Sunday, weather permitting, to go to the COE church there.

They were, of course, early targets.

I have to admire the tenacity to stay with his faith.

102 moderatelyradicalliberal  Feb 7, 2011 11:14:37am

re: #96 Lidane

Correction — there are people who still want to be sane Republicans out there. Problem is, the party is completely off the rails since 2008. If you’re not in line with this sort of garbage, or with Caribou Barbie or the JBS/Tea Party types, you’re not a Republican at all. You’re a RINO and a traitor.

Sane Republicans get listened to about as much as liberals and Democrats. The crazies are in a complete echo chamber of talk radio, FOX news, the churches they go to, and the internet websites they visit. Epistemic closure. They don’t have to listen to what they don’t want to listen to.

103 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Feb 7, 2011 11:14:51am

re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m actually pretty annoyed with the ‘sane’ Republicans, too. Very often, I’ll see what seems to be a reasonable Republican speaking about some issue, but often the data being cited comes from the Heritage Foundation or some other extremist site. I feel that the long association between ‘normal’ conservatives and the extreme social conservatives has infected many ‘normal’ conservatives to the extent that they’ve stopped properly validating their data.

104 iceweasel  Feb 7, 2011 11:15:20am

re: #85 ralphieboy

Well, unwanted pregnancy is seen as a form of punishment for sex outside of marriage.

That’s why the right wing noise machine became hysterical when Obama used that term ‘punishment’, while at the same time swooning over the spectacle of Bristol and Levi in august 2008 and their ‘engagement’.

They really do believe it’s a punishment— like AIDS.

105 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 11:15:39am

re: #100 BishopX

I find hilarious that the bible browser plugin advertised in there uses the Buddy Jesus Icon from Dogma. Some one missed the point.

Or not.

“Jesus didn’t come to earth to give us the willies! He came to help us out!”

106 Decatur Deb  Feb 7, 2011 11:16:09am

re: #99 SanFranciscoZionist

I was reading a novel about the Salem Witch trials, recently. Apparently, the father of one of the young women involved was an Anglican, who flatly refused to the do the Separatist thing. He would row himself to Marblehead of a Sunday, weather permitting, to go to the COE church there.

They were, of course, early targets.

I’ve seen a recent explanation that makes the trials a vestry-vestry struggle, complicated of course by property, sexuality, frontier warfare, and race.

107 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 11:16:11am

re: #102 moderatelyradicalliberal

Sane Republicans get listened to about as much as liberals and Democrats. The crazies are in a complete echo chamber of talk radio, FOX news, the churches they go to, and the internet websites they visit. Epistemic closure. They don’t have to listen to what they don’t want to listen to.

And they hear what they want to hear. …

108 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 11:16:37am

Uh oh. I spy a meltdown moment.

109 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 11:16:47am

re: #103 Obdicut

I’m actually pretty annoyed with the ‘sane’ Republicans, too. Very often, I’ll see what seems to be a reasonable Republican speaking about some issue, but often the data being cited comes from the Heritage Foundation or some other extremist site. I feel that the long association between ‘normal’ conservatives and the extreme social conservatives has infected many ‘normal’ conservatives to the extent that they’ve stopped properly validating their data.

You are correct. They don’t realize they can’t trust the same sources as they used to.

110 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 11:16:57am

re: #101 EmmmieG

I have to admire the tenacity to stay with his faith.

He was also a smart man. When his daughter cried out on the family, he packed up his wife and the other kids and went south to friends, out of Massachusetts.

Legend has it that when he got there, he pounded on the door at ten at night, telling his old merchant buddy that ‘the Devil himself is after me’.

111 moderatelyradicalliberal  Feb 7, 2011 11:17:17am

re: #104 iceweasel

That’s why the right wing noise machine became hysterical when Obama used that term ‘punishment’, while at the same time swooning over the spectacle of Bristol and Levi in august 2008 and their ‘engagement’.

They really do believe it’s a punishment— like AIDS.

They swooned over Bristol and Levi because of who her mother was. If she had been any other pregnant teenager they would have treated her like trailer trash and blamed her for the downfall of American values like they did every other teenage mother up until then.

112 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 11:17:26am

re: #103 Obdicut

I’m actually pretty annoyed with the ‘sane’ Republicans, too. Very often, I’ll see what seems to be a reasonable Republican speaking about some issue, but often the data being cited comes from the Heritage Foundation or some other extremist site. I feel that the long association between ‘normal’ conservatives and the extreme social conservatives has infected many ‘normal’ conservatives to the extent that they’ve stopped properly validating their data.

I finally saw Pawlenty on Jon Stewart. I was disappointed.

113 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 11:18:13am

re: #104 iceweasel

That’s why the right wing noise machine became hysterical when Obama used that term ‘punishment’, while at the same time swooning over the spectacle of Bristol and Levi in august 2008 and their ‘engagement’.

They really do believe it’s a punishment— like AIDS.

I’m still pissed at O’Reilly over Britney Spears’ little sister, and Bristol.

114 RadicalModerate  Feb 7, 2011 11:18:19am

re: #72 Charles

Yes, Gary North is one of those freaks. And note that this isn’t really a “fringe” group - they have significant political influence.

Gary North, for those of you unfamiliar with the name, is the son-in-law (and spiritual heir) to R. J. Rushdoony, the chief architect of modern Dominionism/Christian Reconstructionism. Oh, and they are (in the case of Rushdoony - was - he died in 2001) hardcore Holocaust deniers and white supremacist racists.

A couple quotes:


“The background of Negro culture is African and magic, and the purposes of magic are control and power… Voodoo or magic was the religion and life of American Negroes. Voodoo songs underlie jazz, and old voodoo, with its power goal, has been merely replaced with revolutionary voodoo [‘civil rights’], a modernized power drive.” - The Institutes of Biblical Law, p. 61

The Bible, Rushdoony wrote, “recognizes that some people are by nature slaves.” In fact, American slavery was “generally benevolent” despite misguided attempts to make whites feel guilty about it.

splcenter.org

Keep in mind, these are the people that guys like Bryan Fischer, James Dobson, and Tony Perkins modeled their ministries after.

115 iceweasel  Feb 7, 2011 11:18:25am

re: #108 Gus 802

Uh oh. I spy a meltdown moment.

Oooo! Any hints?

116 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 11:18:48am

heh, I was just remembering when this topic was forbidden on LGF. Too many thread-wars over it.

117 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 11:19:15am

re: #104 iceweasel

That’s why the right wing noise machine became hysterical when Obama used that term ‘punishment’, while at the same time swooning over the spectacle of Bristol and Levi in august 2008 and their ‘engagement’.

They really do believe it’s a punishment— like AIDS.

That was pathetic. Including Sarah Palin repeatedly calling her husband “the first dude.” And speaking of Bristol that dimwit might be coming out with a “memoir” sometime around June. Basura blanca.

118 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Feb 7, 2011 11:19:17am

re: #115 iceweasel

Oooo! Any hints?

Well, I’m currently a big mushy wad of mucus. Sorry to gross you all out, but I can’t melt down any farther than I currently am.

119 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 11:19:40am

re: #115 iceweasel

Oooo! Any hints?

Maybe it wasn’t a meltdown but we’ll see. Buck.

120 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 11:19:44am

re: #106 Decatur Deb

I’ve seen a recent explanation that makes the trials a vestry-vestry struggle, complicated of course by property, sexuality, frontier warfare, and race.

The whole thing was enormously complicated. Lots of moving parts.

121 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 11:19:55am

re: #108 Gus 802

Uh oh. I spy a meltdown moment.

?

122 moderatelyradicalliberal  Feb 7, 2011 11:20:34am

re: #112 SanFranciscoZionist

I finally saw Pawlenty on Jon Stewart. I was disappointed.

Empty suit trying to fill himself with tea party nonsense, but he’s too lame and boring to actually channel the emotion needed to pull it off.

I keep hearing the Romney is the only viable option but he has the charm, charisma, sincerity and looks of a used car salesman.

123 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 11:20:49am

re: #121 SanFranciscoZionist

?

Oh. Buck’s freaking out again.

124 jaunte  Feb 7, 2011 11:21:06am

re: #117 Gus 802

I hope they go electronic only, and don’t use up any paper pulp on it.

125 zora  Feb 7, 2011 11:21:51am

re: #38 ggt

How do these people feel about inter-racial babies?

they like them just fine while they are still in the uterus.

126 calochortus  Feb 7, 2011 11:22:07am

re: #117 Gus 802

That was pathetic. Including Sarah Palin repeatedly calling her husband “the first dude.” And speaking of Bristol that dimwit might be coming out with a “memoir” sometime around June. Basura blanca.

Upding for “basura blanca”.
I don’t think I’ll be pre-ordering that book. Sort of like the elementary school assignment of kids writing autobiographies at the age of 10. Even as a kid I felt that was dumb.

127 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 11:22:07am

I would really like to tell these Whackos:

“If you don’t want a woman to have an abortion, don’t get her pregnant.”

I imagine the response:

“But sex is my right”

My response:

“NO, the opportunity to pursue sex is your right.”

128 Feline Fearless Leader  Feb 7, 2011 11:22:10am

re: #98 Gus 802

I think there are several definitions. Here’s one I like:


Hence theopublicans could be defined as “pimps for theologians”.

//

I was playing off the “publican” as bar-owner part. Wasn’t aware of the slang usage.

129 Professor Chaos  Feb 7, 2011 11:22:20am

re: #114 RadicalModerate

Gary North, for those of you unfamiliar with the name, is the son-in-law (and spiritual heir) to R. J. Rushdoony, the chief architect of modern Dominionism/Christian Reconstructionism. Oh, and they are (in the case of Rushdoony - was - he died in 2001) hardcore Holocaust deniers and white supremacist racists.

Gary, what are your intentions towards my daughter?

Well sir, with your permission, I’d like to spend the rest of my life hating Jews and queers with your daughter by my side.

Welcome to the family, son.

130 Rightwingconspirator  Feb 7, 2011 11:23:08am

re: #78 Lidane

I don’t think it’s the magical balance fairy to encourage demand the right again squelch and marginalize the extreme “moral” right wing, and then add to the list the far left.

My best example-The environmental far left is exactly who has impeded nuclear energy in this country. Despite AGW, despite the coal mine carnage in human lives. Despite the environmental damage done by oil to electricity… AGW is life or death for us all or at least or sons and daughters of a few generations hence.

Researchok paged a great piece about how damaging in human lives the reflexive anti Israel pro Palestinian position of the far left as well. I refer to the article in Huffpo huffingtonpost.com

The extremists all set aside reality to promote a skewed world view. Not smart if we want to advance womens rights, the environment or foreign policy.

131 moderatelyradicalliberal  Feb 7, 2011 11:23:14am

re: #114 RadicalModerate

Gary North, for those of you unfamiliar with the name, is the son-in-law (and spiritual heir) to R. J. Rushdoony, the chief architect of modern Dominionism/Christian Reconstructionism. Oh, and they are (in the case of Rushdoony - was - he died in 2001) hardcore Holocaust deniers and white supremacist racists.

A couple quotes:

[Link: www.splcenter.org…]

Keep in mind, these are the people that guys like Bryan Fischer, James Dobson, and Tony Perkins modeled their ministries after.

It’s all about asserting and maintaining a superior place in society and nothing more. Blacks, women, gays, non-Christians, etc. It’s all about the caste system for these people and their anger that the caste system has been slowly dismantled over the last 50 years. We aren’t there yet, but it’s where we are headed and they want to stop it.

132 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 11:23:14am

re: #123 Gus 802

Oh. Buck’s freaking out again.

Buck doesn’t really melt, though.

133 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 11:23:30am

re: #129 Girth

Gary, what are your intentions towards my daughter?

Well sir, with your permission, I’d like to spend the rest of my life hating Jews and queers with your daughter by my side.

Welcome to the family, son.

I guess his daughter wasn’t a candidate for taking over the family business? She had to stay home and raise his grandchildren?

134 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Feb 7, 2011 11:23:35am

re: #104 iceweasel

That’s why the right wing noise machine became hysterical when Obama used that term ‘punishment’, while at the same time swooning over the spectacle of Bristol and Levi in august 2008 and their ‘engagement’.

They really do believe it’s a punishment— like AIDS.

Yes, fear of unwanted pregnancy is supposed to prevent premarital sex, just like fear AIDS is supposed to prevent homosexual relations and fear of the death penalty is supposed to prevent murder.

And in some parts of the world, fear of stoning is supposed to prevent adultery.

135 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 11:23:44am

re: #127 ggt

I would really like to tell these Whackos:

“If you don’t want a woman to have an abortion, don’t get her pregnant.”

I imagine the response:

“But sex is my right”

My response:

“NO, the opportunity to pursue sex is your right.”

Life, liberty, and ‘the pursuit of happiness’.

136 Summer Seale  Feb 7, 2011 11:24:05am

In other news today, from the Center of Rightspeak:

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. Females are chattel.

137 iceweasel  Feb 7, 2011 11:24:33am

re: #127 ggt

I would really like to tell these Whackos:

“If you don’t want a woman to have an abortion, don’t get her pregnant.”

I imagine the response:

“But sex is my right”

My response:

“NO, the opportunity to pursue sex is your right.”

Image: against.jpg

138 Feline Fearless Leader  Feb 7, 2011 11:24:34am

re: #100 BishopX

I find hilarious that the bible browser plugin advertised in there uses the Buddy Jesus Icon from Dogma. Some one missed the point.

Their two main weapons are obliviousness, projection, and a fanatical devotion to the Bible, three! Their three main weapons are…

;)

139 moderatelyradicalliberal  Feb 7, 2011 11:24:37am

re: #125 zora

they like them just fine while they are still in the uterus.

Same with nearly everybody else.

140 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Feb 7, 2011 11:27:10am

re: #130 Rightwingconspirator

The far left is already marginalized, though.

The far right isn’t. The far right is the GOP.

141 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Feb 7, 2011 11:27:16am

It’s amazing how you miss, when you aren’t on cold medication how many pretty sparkly colors are on the computer monitor.

142 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 11:27:25am

re: #126 calochortus

Upding for “basura blanca”.
I don’t think I’ll be pre-ordering that book. Sort of like the elementary school assignment of kids writing autobiographies at the age of 10. Even as a kid I felt that was dumb.

Thanks. Here I thought that memoirs were the domain of people that have actually accomplished something or been through a rather notable personal or historical experience. What’s she going to write about? Her experience on “Dancing with the Stars”; her “fiance”, Levi Johnston, appearing on the Tyra Banks show; or her latest fake wedding announcement with Levi which was only done to get 100,000 dollars. But, in this age of “The Kardashians”, Snooki, and Paris Hilton it’s sort of expected.

143 Feline Fearless Leader  Feb 7, 2011 11:27:31am

re: #134 ralphieboy

Yes, fear of unwanted pregnancy is supposed to prevent premarital sex, just like fear AIDS is supposed to prevent homosexual relations and fear of the death penalty is supposed to prevent murder.

And in some parts of the world, fear of stoning is supposed to prevent adultery.

I think the only thing about this that is universal is that 17-22 year olds don’t think it will happen to them*

* - Yes, it applies to older (and younger) people as well, but that age group seems somewhat more prone to having the resources and will for major risk-taking without some of the learned experience that makes your internal voice say “what the hell?”

144 prairiefire  Feb 7, 2011 11:28:09am

re: #141 EmmmieG

It’s amazing how you miss, when you aren’t on cold medication how many pretty sparkly colors are on the computer monitor.

And exactly what type of cold medicine? Glad you are feeling better.

145 moderatelyradicalliberal  Feb 7, 2011 11:28:46am

re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You fucking bastards.

Thank god I live in the liberal hell hole of the West Coast.

I’m in Texas, but Dallas has become a very nice island of blue.

146 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 11:28:47am

Going to the Mall: A memoir by Kim Kardashian

Probably would make the best seller list.

//

147 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Feb 7, 2011 11:28:51am

re: #144 prairiefire

And exactly what type of cold medicine? Glad you are feeling better.

Er…Vicks Nyquil. I couldn’t find anything else with an antihistamine.

148 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Feb 7, 2011 11:29:31am

re: #143 oaktree

I think the only thing about this that is universal is that 17-22 year olds don’t think it will happen to them*

Our third and fourth children came about as a result of that sort of thinking.*

*or rather me asking my wife “You sure you’re safe?” and then believing her answer…

149 Decatur Deb  Feb 7, 2011 11:30:45am

re: #148 ralphieboy

Our third and fourth children came about as a result of that sort of thinking.*

*or rather me asking my wife “You sure you’re safe?” and then believing her answer…

We stopped at two.

And three.

And four.

150 jaunte  Feb 7, 2011 11:30:48am

re: #136 Summer

In other news today, from the Center of Rightspeak:

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. Females are chattel.

It’s all here in Gary North’s book:
“Christian Reconstruction: What it is, What it isn’t.”
freebooks.commentary.net

151 rwdflynavy  Feb 7, 2011 11:31:05am

re: #148 ralphieboy

Our third and fourth children came about as a result of that sort of thinking.*

*or rather me asking my wife “You sure you’re safe?” and then believing her answer…

I hope the third and fourth were twins, otherwise…fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice…

152 Bulworth  Feb 7, 2011 11:31:27am

Sounds like more of that “less government” we’ve been hearing so much about.

153 moderatelyradicalliberal  Feb 7, 2011 11:31:37am

re: #148 ralphieboy

Our third and fourth children came about as a result of that sort of thinking.*

*or rather me asking my wife “You sure you’re safe?” and then believing her answer…

My grandmother gave birth to 9 children between from the time she was 27 until the time she was 45. She jokes she and my grandfather didn’t figure out what was causing them until the 5th baby.

154 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Feb 7, 2011 11:31:58am

re: #149 Decatur Deb

We stopped at two.

And three.

And four.

My parents were done three times. The third, after my mother nearly died from high blood pressure, my father saw the doctor and made sure they were done.

155 Stauff  Feb 7, 2011 11:32:47am

re: #96 Lidane

I don’t know, 2008? That’s seems a bit late, the Terry Shiavo controversy happened around 2005 and the party was clearly off the rails then. I’d put the GOP as off the rails right around 9/11/2001 but the evidence didn’t start showing up until later.

156 moderatelyradicalliberal  Feb 7, 2011 11:33:06am

re: #152 Bulworth

Sounds like more of that “less government” we’ve been hearing so much about.

They want to take their hands out of our wallets only to stick it up our private parts. No Thanks.

157 Pie-onist Overlord  Feb 7, 2011 11:33:23am

re: #153 moderatelyradicalliberal

My grandmother gave birth to 9 children between from the time she was 27 until the time she was 45. She jokes she and my grandfather didn’t figure out what was causing them until the 5th baby.

I had 9 children from the time I was 22 until the time I was 37.

I knew all along what was causing them.

158 iossarian  Feb 7, 2011 11:34:19am

re: #151 rwdflynavy

I hope the third and fourth were twins, otherwise…fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice…

Youtube Video

159 jaunte  Feb 7, 2011 11:34:36am

re: #150 jaunte

It’s all here in Gary North’s book:
“Christian Reconstruction: What it is, What it isn’t.”
[Link: freebooks.commentary.net…]

By the way, see pages 24-26 for North’s grotesque minimization of the Holocaust.

160 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Feb 7, 2011 11:34:49am

re: #157 Alouette


I knew all along what was causing them.

Well, don’t keep us in suspense. What was it?

161 Jaerik  Feb 7, 2011 11:34:51am

So when a woman gets pregnant out of wedlock it’s a mortal sin, worthy of ostracism, pain, punishment, and even possible death.

But the fetus that results from it is a precious blessing from God.

162 Decatur Deb  Feb 7, 2011 11:34:52am

re: #155 Stauff

I don’t know, 2008? That’s seems a bit late, the Terry Shiavo controversy happened around 2005 and the party was clearly off the rails then. I’d put the GOP as off the rails right around 9/11/2001 but the evidence didn’t start showing up until later.

The GOP has been visibly off the rails since FDR, if you are properly brought-up.

163 Lidane  Feb 7, 2011 11:35:12am

re: #155 Stauff

True, the party’s been off the rails for ages, since before 9/11 gave them all the vapors. And while Terri Schiavo led some folks to up and quit in disgust (see: John Cole over at Balloon Juice), the crazy REALLY hit the fan when Obama got elected. I’ve truly never seen anything like it in my lifetime.

164 moderatelyradicalliberal  Feb 7, 2011 11:35:14am

re: #155 Stauff

I don’t know, 2008? That’s seems a bit late, the Terry Shiavo controversy happened around 2005 and the party was clearly off the rails then. I’d put the GOP as off the rails right around 9/11/2001 but the evidence didn’t start showing up until later.

Also a lot of moderates have left. They just don’t like the GOP anymore. The GOP had shrunk quite a bit by 2008 leaving a much larger portion of highly motivated and concentrated crazy. The inmates are running the asylum because a lot of the guards have quit.

165 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Feb 7, 2011 11:35:34am

re: #149 Decatur Deb

We stopped at two.

And three.

And four.

I wasn’t exactly planned, either.

But we were fortunate, we had a house, a loving atmosphere and enough money to afford them.

166 calochortus  Feb 7, 2011 11:35:38am

So what about birth control for women who shouldn’t be getting pregnant for medical reasons? Or should they just abstain from sex?

167 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Feb 7, 2011 11:35:49am

re: #155 Stauff

The Schiavo thing made an absolute mockery of the GOP’s sentiment of ‘limited government.’

At that time, however, I felt that a lot of the GOP rank-and-file were as disgusted with it as I was.

I don’t think that’d be true anymore.

168 Jaerik  Feb 7, 2011 11:36:04am

re: #162 Decatur Deb

The GOP has been visibly off the rails since FDR, if you are properly brought-up.

I’d argue it was more the Southern Strategy under Nixon and the unholy alliance with the Religious Right under Reagan.

169 calochortus  Feb 7, 2011 11:37:04am

re: #167 Obdicut

The Schiavo thing made an absolute mockery of the GOP’s sentiment of ‘limited government.’

At that time, however, I felt that a lot of the GOP rank-and-file were as disgusted with it as I was.

I don’t think that’d be true anymore.

Probably not, those of us who might not have been happy about it are long gone.

170 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 11:37:05am

re: #159 jaunte

By the way, see pages 24-26 for North’s grotesque minimization of the Holocaust.



Martin Luther
was a raving anti-Semite.

171 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Feb 7, 2011 11:37:23am

re: #155 Stauff

I don’t know, 2008? That’s seems a bit late, the Terry Shiavo controversy happened around 2005 and the party was clearly off the rails then. I’d put the GOP as off the rails right around 9/11/2001 but the evidence didn’t start showing up until later.

This came up last nite in a thread that started discussing Reagan.

The Religious Right felt badly betrayed by Reagan and set about insinuating its people into all levels of government, politics, administration and public life to ensure that the Republican Party would not betray them again.

We are seeing the fruition of this campaign.

172 iossarian  Feb 7, 2011 11:37:28am

re: #165 ralphieboy

[…] and enough money to afford them.

Restricting access to contraception is a real kick in the teeth for lower-income women.

Way to go, conservatives!

173 Professor Chaos  Feb 7, 2011 11:37:52am

re: #155 Stauff

I don’t know, 2008? That’s seems a bit late, the Terry Shiavo controversy happened around 2005 and the party was clearly off the rails then. I’d put the GOP as off the rails right around 9/11/2001 but the evidence didn’t start showing up until later.

Personally, my split with the GOP started when Bush nominated John Ashcroft to be AG. I knew he would start using the power of the federal government to try to stop things like medical marijuana in CA and assisted suicide in OR. That was eye-opening for me. I had thought that the GOP was all about federalism and state and local control, but it was quite obvious that that only applied to policies with which the GOP agreed. That’s when I started dabbling in libertarianism.

174 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 11:37:54am

re: #160 Obdicut

Well, don’t keep us in suspense. What was it?

the jew :)

175 moderatelyradicalliberal  Feb 7, 2011 11:38:18am

re: #166 calochortus

So what about birth control for women who shouldn’t be getting pregnant for medical reasons? Or should they just abstain from sex?

According to these people there is no such thing. Remember John McCain scoffing at medical reasons for an abortion needing to be terminated. In the minds of these people pregnancy is always good and women have no other purpose.

176 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 11:38:55am

re: #163 Lidane

True, the party’s been off the rails for ages, since before 9/11 gave them all the vapors. And while Terri Schiavo led some folks to up and quit in disgust (see: John Cole over at Balloon Juice), the crazy REALLY hit the fan when Obama got elected. I’ve truly never seen anything like it in my lifetime.

I think the term is Cognitive Dissonance.

177 Decatur Deb  Feb 7, 2011 11:39:13am

re: #168 Jaerik

I’d argue it was more the Southern Strategy under Nixon and the unholy alliance with the Religious Right under Reagan.

“FDR Knew the Japanese Were Going to Bomb Pearl Harbor”
“FDR is a Communist”

Crazy even then, if you were looking.

178 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Feb 7, 2011 11:39:22am

re: #175 moderatelyradicalliberal

Yes, it is seen as “interfereing with God’s plan”. Even if that “plan” somehow involved rape or incest.

179 moderatelyradicalliberal  Feb 7, 2011 11:39:37am

re: #172 iossarian

Restricting access to contraception is a real kick in the teeth for lower-income women.

Way to go, conservatives!

Since when does the GOP care about the poor?

180 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 11:40:32am

re: #166 calochortus

So what about birth control for women who shouldn’t be getting pregnant for medical reasons? Or should they just abstain from sex?

The result would be a gift from God.

Don’t you get it. The woman counts only in that she is a vassal. She is not a person.

181 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 11:40:37am

re: #179 moderatelyradicalliberal

Since when does the GOP care about the poor?

Let me think. Oh right. For maintaining a volunteer army.

//

182 Decatur Deb  Feb 7, 2011 11:40:52am

re: #179 moderatelyradicalliberal

Since when does the GOP care about the poor?

They have always cared about the poor—If you don’t have enough of them, wages climb.

183 Feline Fearless Leader  Feb 7, 2011 11:41:20am

re: #175 moderatelyradicalliberal

According to these people there is no such thing. Remember John McCain scoffing at medical reasons for an abortion needing to be terminated. In the minds of these people pregnancy is always good and women have no other purpose.

It’s all part of the Bene Gesserit breeding program to create the perfect Republican.
/

184 Fozzie Bear  Feb 7, 2011 11:41:34am

More semantic wordplay of an evil nature brought to you by the GOP:

Georgia State Lawmaker Seeks To Redefine Rape Victims As ‘Accusers’

WASHINGTON — A Republican state legislator in Georgia doesn’t like the term rape “victim.” In fact, he has introduced a bill mandating that state criminal codes refer to these people as, simply, “accusers” — until there’s a conviction in the matter.

According to the legislation introduced by state Rep. Bobby Franklin (R-Marietta) […]

185 SpaceJesus  Feb 7, 2011 11:41:42am

take away the catholic church’s tax exempt status

186 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Feb 7, 2011 11:42:01am

re: #182 Decatur Deb

They have always cared about the poor—If you don’t have enough of them, wages climb.


During the Bubonic Plague, wages climbed and workers claimed more rights for just this reason.

NOT that I am advocating another bubonic plague.

187 SanFranciscoZionist  Feb 7, 2011 11:42:13am

re: #175 moderatelyradicalliberal

According to these people there is no such thing. Remember John McCain scoffing at medical reasons for an abortion needing to be terminated. In the minds of these people pregnancy is always good and women have no other purpose.

There’s a strong tendency to assume that medical issues are just an excuse.

188 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 11:42:35am

re: #182 Decatur Deb

They have always cared about the poor—If you don’t have enough of them, wages climb.

Cheap labor via illegal immigration is not longer politically expedient for them. Of course we know they’ve now done a complete 180 when at one time illegal aliens provided cheap labor for big business interests.

189 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 11:43:00am

re: #185 SpaceJesus

take away the catholic church’s tax exempt status

The Church would pull-out of the US. Faithful be damned.

190 Fozzie Bear  Feb 7, 2011 11:43:20am

re: #189 ggt

The Church would pull-out of the US. Faithful be damned.

We can only hope.

191 iceweasel  Feb 7, 2011 11:43:23am

re: #181 Gus 802

Let me think. Oh right. For maintaining a volunteer army.

//

HA!

it’s either laugh or cry sometimes….

192 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 11:44:08am

re: #191 iceweasel

HA!

it’s either laugh or cry sometimes…

Yeah. Hey, rich kids are always joining the Army to become infantrymen.

//

193 Professor Chaos  Feb 7, 2011 11:45:22am

re: #189 ggt

The Church would pull-out of the US. Faithful be damned.

And if the Catholic Church knew anything about contraception they’d know that pulling-out is a horribly ineffective method.

194 calochortus  Feb 7, 2011 11:45:28am

re: #175 moderatelyradicalliberal

According to these people there is no such thing. Remember John McCain scoffing at medical reasons for an abortion needing to be terminated. In the minds of these people pregnancy is always good and women have no other purpose.

re: #180 ggt

How could I forget that?

The result would be a gift from God.

Don’t you get it. The woman counts only in that she is a vassal. She is not a person.

Ah yes, death. A gift…

195 iceweasel  Feb 7, 2011 11:45:33am

re: #192 Gus 802

Yeah. Hey, rich kids are always joining the Army to become infantrymen.

//

…or fighter pilots in the National Guard? ;)

Youtube Video

196 Stanley Sea  Feb 7, 2011 11:45:34am

Ha, they let the school kids out of school early in Green Bay to see the team arrive home.

197 Decatur Deb  Feb 7, 2011 11:46:14am

re: #189 ggt

The Church would pull-out of the US. Faithful be damned.

No—they are really more serious than that. Review Tudor/Elizabethan England and Ireland.

198 Feline Fearless Leader  Feb 7, 2011 11:46:33am

re: #196 Stanley Sea

Ha, they let the school kids out of school early in Green Bay to see the team arrive home.

Well odds are their parents own the team… ;)

199 moderatelyradicalliberal  Feb 7, 2011 11:46:50am

re: #187 SanFranciscoZionist

There’s a strong tendency to assume that medical issues are just an excuse.

I think they just don’t care. They believe that the unborn fetus is more valuable than the woman and any way in which the woman’s life might be adversely effected by a pregnancy or motherhood is irrelevant. The woman’s life is worth less and therefore she should be willing to sacrifice anything to bring the fetus to term whether it’s poverty, dropping out of school, staying tied to a bad man, her health, her sanity or her life. It’s all about the fetus and women only have value in bringing fetuses into the world. We are just vessels and not people.

200 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 11:46:54am

re: #194 calochortus

re: #180 ggt

How could I forget that?

Ah yes, death. A gift…

The thinking is totally on the soul. To die giving life? It is a blessed gift given only to women.

201 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 11:47:23am

Just to clarify though. No, I don’t think there’s a conspiracy in which the GOP is maintaining an impoverished class to bolster a volunteer army. It sort of works out that way though and is reflective of a class based society in which we live in.

202 theheat  Feb 7, 2011 11:48:02am
“Pregnancy is not a disease to be prevented, nor is fertility a pathological condition,” said Deirdre A. McQuade, a spokeswoman for the bishops’ Pro-Life Secretariat. “So birth control is not preventive care, and it should not be mandated.”

First, I’m not interested in the opinion of a person representing a religion - any religion - that sees women as broodmares, believes sperm has more rights than adults, views homosexuality as a sin, trains for exorcisms, thinks birth control is evil, and denies the importance of condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS.

The backwards religious and the uptight both have a freaky world view of SEX. They believe sex is only supposed to be between a married man and woman, and all procreation should be viewed as some kind of blessed magical event. Women who have sex outside of marriage are promiscuous whores that deserve what they get, men are “cads” (winky winky), and gays are unfortunate creatures who at best may be cured through prayer, or at worst deserve to die.

In order to keep people’s sexuality at bay, the backwards religious and uptight want to impose CONSEQUENCES to having sex. One of those consequences is inhibiting the ability to prevent pregnancy by any means necessary, whether it’s birth control pills, IUDs, condoms, morning after pills, or even legal abortion. They make no distinction between pregnancy resulting from a one night stand, a longtime partner, a contraception mistake, or even a rapist. Once an egg is fertilized, all bets are off, and rights go to the zygote.

Like most things from a purely religious perspective, the facts of pregnancy aren’t necessarily supported by scripture:

- Zygotes are not people.
- Eggs can be fertilized in test tubes. There’s nothing divine or predestined about sperm meeting an egg.
- Not all people want to be become parents as a result of having sex.
- Not all people can support an endless amount of pregnancies.
- The world itself cannot support an endless amount of pregnancies.

It’s time, once and for all, the backwards religious and uptight take their collective feet off the throats of people existing in the real world, of the here and now. Their gobbledygook, anti-science, anti-fact, damning views are incompatible with the world as a whole. Their influence on people’s private and reproductive rights only serve to keep the entire world dumbed down and cocooned in a comfort zone that exists only between pages of cherry-picked religious text.

Let these backwards religious and uptight people quietly fuck off, and stop manipulating the whole of society. Like the tube radio, it’s time for them to either modernize or shut up and get the fuck out.

203 calochortus  Feb 7, 2011 11:48:36am

re: #200 ggt

The thinking is totally on the soul. To die giving life? It is a blessed gift given only to women.

Possibly, but it doesn’t do a lot of good to die and take the fetus with you.

204 calochortus  Feb 7, 2011 11:49:32am

re: #203 calochortus

And I hope its perfectly clear that I was being sarcastic.

205 moderatelyradicalliberal  Feb 7, 2011 11:49:41am
Let these backwards religious and uptight people quietly fuck off, and stop manipulating the whole of society. Like the tube radio, it’s time for them to either modernize or shut up and get the fuck out.

I would love for them to quietly fuck off, but damned if they don’t keep winning elections.

206 Professor Chaos  Feb 7, 2011 11:49:50am

re: #199 moderatelyradicalliberal

I think they just don’t care. They believe that the unborn fetus is more valuable than the woman and any way in which the woman’s life might be adversely effected by a pregnancy or motherhood is irrelevant. The woman’s life is worth less and therefore she should be willing to sacrifice anything to bring the fetus to term whether it’s poverty, dropping out of school, staying tied to a bad man, her health, her sanity or her life. It’s all about the fetus and women only have value in bringing fetuses into the world. We are just vessels and not people.

Is it so simple that they see the fetus as clean and without sin so it’s more important? But then once born your marked with original sin so you’re pretty much on your own?

I just can’t wrap my head around hard-core pro-lifers.

207 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 11:49:52am

re: #201 Gus 802

Just to clarify though. No, I don’t think there’s a conspiracy in which the GOP is maintaining an impoverished class to bolster a volunteer army. It sort of works out that way though and is reflective of a class based society in which we live in.

I don’t think there will ever truly be a society that isn’t somehow based on a class system.

I’d like to think that the cream will rise to the top and those who are truly lazy will sink to the bottom. Shall we say, a merit-based class system. But, I know, we humans are a wiley bunch.

And, enlisting in the Military is a way to better oneself. There are risks regardless.

208 Decatur Deb  Feb 7, 2011 11:49:52am

re: #201 Gus 802

Just to clarify though. No, I don’t think there’s a conspiracy in which the GOP is maintaining an impoverished class to bolster a volunteer army. It sort of works out that way though and is reflective of a class based society in which we live in.

Just a happy accident.

209 Lidane  Feb 7, 2011 11:50:19am

re: #202 theheat

It’s time, once and for all, the backwards religious and uptight take their collective feet off the throats of people existing in the real world, of the here and now. Their gobbledygook, anti-science, anti-fact, damning views are incompatible with the world as a whole.

Oh, how I wish. That would involve getting rid of religion, however, and that won’t ever happen. People wil

210 moderatelyradicalliberal  Feb 7, 2011 11:50:47am

re: #203 calochortus

Possibly, but it doesn’t do a lot of good to die and take the fetus with you.

Or leave other children behind without a mother. Most women who use birth control and have abortions already have at least one child.

211 Lidane  Feb 7, 2011 11:51:07am

Ugh. Damned jumping cursor.

I meant to say that people will always find a reason to believe in religion, so no matter how outdated or problematic it is, it will always exist.

212 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 11:51:32am

re: #203 calochortus

Possibly, but it doesn’t do a lot of good to die and take the fetus with you.

But you tried!

213 calochortus  Feb 7, 2011 11:52:14am

re: #210 moderatelyradicalliberal

Or leave other children behind without a mother. Most women who use birth control and have abortions already have at least one child.

That too.

214 Decatur Deb  Feb 7, 2011 11:52:57am

re: #211 Lidane

Ugh. Damned jumping cursor.

I meant to say that people will always find a reason to believe in religion, so no matter how outdated or problematic it is, it will always exist.

It will continue to serve a real-world purpose for some time.

215 calochortus  Feb 7, 2011 11:53:17am

re: #206 Girth

Is it so simple that they see the fetus as clean and without sin so it’s more important? But then once born your marked with original sin so you’re pretty much on your own?

I just can’t wrap my head around hard-core pro-lifers.

What about original sin?

216 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 11:53:20am

re: #205 moderatelyradicalliberal

I would love for them to quietly fuck off, but damned if they don’t keep winning elections.

WHat I don’t get is the twisted way they brutalize the concept of individual responsibility.

You have free will, but the Whackos will tell you how and when you can use it?

I’m not seeing where they have a decree from G-d giving them that responsibility.

217 Lidane  Feb 7, 2011 11:53:41am

BTW, if anyone knows how to fix the jumping cursor I’ve had since upgrading to Windows 7, it would be much appreciated. It’s annoying to have my cursor jump to random places on a page as I type.

218 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Feb 7, 2011 11:54:12am

re: #217 Lidane

BTW, if anyone knows how to fix the jumping cursor I’ve had since upgrading to Windows 7, it would be much appreciated. It’s annoying to have my cursor jump to random places on a page as I type.

Maybe it’s trying to escape to a better browser?

219 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 11:54:33am

re: #217 Lidane

BTW, if anyone knows how to fix the jumping cursor I’ve had since upgrading to Windows 7, it would be much appreciated. It’s annoying to have my cursor jump to random places on a page as I type.

Sounds like an industrial disease.

220 moderatelyradicalliberal  Feb 7, 2011 11:54:35am

re: #206 Girth

Is it so simple that they see the fetus as clean and without sin so it’s more important? But then once born your marked with original sin so you’re pretty much on your own?

I just can’t wrap my head around hard-core pro-lifers.

They believe pro-creation is a commandment. They whole be fruitful and multiply thing. It’s also a part of why they hate homosexuals and think its and unnatural abomination. Somebody should tell them the human race is 6.5 billion strong and counting. We’ve multiplied and been quite fruitful despite the fact that some women have opted for birth control or abortion and some of us are same sex oriented.

221 Buck  Feb 7, 2011 11:54:37am

re: #123 Gus 802

Oh. Buck’s freaking out again.

I don’t think so. I don’t understand what you are referring to.

222 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 11:54:45am

re: #208 Decatur Deb

Just a happy accident.

50 to 100 bucks would keep you out of the Union army. Now that was a lot of money back then. A lot. Conscripted troops reflect a wider range of class though — in general because well connected people can still get out of fighting in the front. Volunteer armies become a means of not only employment but a way out of poverty. There are some positive benefits to both.

223 Lidane  Feb 7, 2011 11:55:15am

re: #218 EmmmieG

Heh. I’m not using IE. I’m using Firrefox. But the cursor jump happens with everything. It makes getting work done annoying.

224 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 11:55:28am

re: #221 Buck

I don’t think so. I don’t understand what you are referring to.

That comment about “…Charles hating…”

225 moderatelyradicalliberal  Feb 7, 2011 11:56:28am

re: #216 ggt

WHat I don’t get is the twisted way they brutalize the concept of individual responsibility.

You have free will, but the Whackos will tell you how and when you can use it?

I’m not seeing where they have a decree from G-d giving them that responsibility.

I think this is the paradox at the heart religion and any political ideology it drives. Coerced morality is not morality at all.

226 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 11:56:33am

re: #222 Gus 802

50 to 100 bucks would keep you out of the Union army. Now that was a lot of money back then. A lot. Conscripted troops reflect a wider range of class though — in general because well connected people can still get out of fighting in the front. Volunteer armies become a means of not only employment but a way out of poverty. There are some positive benefits to both.

Oops. 50 to 300 bucks. Er, I mean dollars. ;)

227 Buck  Feb 7, 2011 11:57:20am

re: #224 Gus 802

That comment about “…Charles hating…”


Nice of you to quote me out of context. I really don’t know why you think it is ok to bring that up here.

228 Feline Fearless Leader  Feb 7, 2011 11:57:44am

re: #223 Lidane

Heh. I’m not using IE. I’m using Firrefox. But the cursor jump happens with everything. It makes getting work done annoying.

When I was seeing that it was when I was using a laptop and the touchpad and little middle of keyboard cursor manipulator were set too sensitively. I basically turned off the double-tap click and also turned the sensitivity of the touchpad all the way down. (If there was an easy way to disable the thing outright on this laptop I’d consider it.)

229 Pie-onist Overlord  Feb 7, 2011 11:57:48am

re: #226 Gus 802

Oops. 50 to 300 bucks. Er, I mean dollars. ;)

20 n-words would keep you out of the Confederate Army.

230 Decatur Deb  Feb 7, 2011 11:58:41am

re: #222 Gus 802

50 to 100 bucks would keep you out of the Union army. Now that was a lot of money back then. A lot. Conscripted troops reflect a wider range of class though — in general because well connected people can still get out of fighting in the front. Volunteer armies become a means of not only employment but a way out of poverty. There are some positive benefits to both.

Sure—from WWI through Korea, it was perhaps the most important and effective educational institution in America. My FIL lied his way in with a 3rd grade education, retired as a senior NCO with a highschool GED and a pilot’s license.

231 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Feb 7, 2011 11:59:19am

re: #222 Gus 802

50 to 100 bucks would keep you out of the Union army. Now that was a lot of money back then. A lot. Conscripted troops reflect a wider range of class though — in general because well connected people can still get out of fighting in the front. Volunteer armies become a means of not only employment but a way out of poverty. There are some positive benefits to both.


And the Confederate army exempted men who owned more than 20 slaves…

232 Rightwingconspirator  Feb 7, 2011 12:00:34pm

re: #140 Obdicut

If they are so marginalized, how do we explain the successes in thwarting nuclear power, solar farm installations, and even wind power facilities? Just as the GOP hides behind base supported morals, the far left hides behind environmental concerns.

Judging by their success rate, they need not be a part of the Democratic party leadership to accomplish their goals.

233 Gus  Feb 7, 2011 12:05:22pm

re: #227 Buck

Nice of you to quote me out of context. I really don’t know why you think it is ok to bring that up here.

It was in passing and I wasn’t exactly going hard edged on you or your mission. And for the record if people want “context” they can look here:

littlegreenfootballs.com

234 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 12:06:24pm

You can also like them on facebook. Their profile pic says “I stand with Planned Parenthood.”

The donation form is on the front page.

235 FemNaziBitch  Feb 7, 2011 12:06:43pm

re: #234 ggt

You can also like them on facebook. Their profile pic says “I stand with Planned Parenthood.”

The donation form is on the front page.

eh, wrong thread. :)

236 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Feb 7, 2011 12:10:14pm

re: #232 Rightwingconspirator

If they are so marginalized, how do we explain the successes in thwarting nuclear power, solar farm installations, and even wind power facilities?

I’m sorry, but NIMBYism isn’t a province of the extreme left. There’s a lot of opposition to any large-scale energy projects from all over the political map.

Environmental concerns are one of them. They’re not the sole and only reason we’re not getting nuclear plants and solar farms built. They’re not even the main reason. The article you cite has environmental concerns as just one reason out of many.

237 theheat  Feb 7, 2011 12:11:38pm

re: #209 Lidane

I think you’re right, but I will continue to do all I can to marginalize them, oppose them, and expose them, for the oppressive dimwitted fucks they are.

238 Rightwingconspirator  Feb 7, 2011 12:26:28pm

re: #236 Obdicut
Do you actually deny the far lefts successes in thwarting nuclear power?

I can only wish the far left had a record of legislative fails with respect to nuclear power the GOP has had recently in the Senate. Repeal Medical Reform-Fail Change the rape language-Fail. I’ll speculate the topic above will also fail, for good reason.
And where it comes to nuclear power, 3 mile island hysteria is a main culprit, promulgated by largely by the far left. Nobody died at the 3 mile island nuclear incident. Plus just a little digging will show you the many instances of left wing environmental “concerns” standing in the way of nuclear power as well as the others. And the NIMBY effect is fully supported and exploited by the left. Out there distributing flyers and exaggerating worries in the community. Or here is a great example-Biofraud Planting endangered species to promote the far left agenda on the ground.

We’d all do better to also judge by successes or fails, rather than just who has gotten party leadership posts.

239 TedStriker  Feb 7, 2011 12:27:19pm

re: #114 RadicalModerate

Gary North, for those of you unfamiliar with the name, is the son-in-law (and spiritual heir) to R. J. Rushdoony, the chief architect of modern Dominionism/Christian Reconstructionism. Oh, and they are (in the case of Rushdoony - was - he died in 2001) hardcore Holocaust deniers and white supremacist racists.

A couple quotes:

[Link: www.splcenter.org…]

Keep in mind, these are the people that guys like Bryan Fischer, James Dobson, and Tony Perkins modeled their ministries after.

What pieces of shit…

240 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Feb 7, 2011 12:35:53pm

re: #238 Rightwingconspirator

Do you actually deny the far lefts successes in thwarting nuclear power?

Yes, I do. There are lots of things that combine to thwart nuclear power. Opposition to them based on environmental concerns is certainly one of those. However, without NIMBYism, the inaccessibility of insurance (other than government-provided), opposition from traditional energy interests, incredibly high capital costs, the other NIMBYism regarding the disposal of waste, etc., environmentalists alone wouldn’t be successful in stopping nuclear power.

So it is incorrect to say that environmentalists have been successful in blocking nuclear power. They are one factor. You could remove every left-wing environmentalist tomorrow, and I doubt a single extra nuclear power plant would actually get built.

We’d all do better to also judge by successes or fails, rather than just who has gotten party leadership posts.

What about all the heinous laws mandating that women have a vaginal wand inserted in them if they want an abortion? What about the laws publicizing information about women who get abortions? Etc. etc?

The religious right’s assault on abortion has had real, actual effects. Dismissing them as somehow not having had real-world effects is very odd.

241 Aunty Entity Dragon  Feb 7, 2011 12:46:20pm

re: #172 iossarian

Restricting access to contraception is a real kick in the teeth for lower-income women.

Way to go, conservatives!

That is a feature…not a bug.

Didn’t you know that? Low income sluts get what they deserve.

//

242 Rightwingconspirator  Feb 7, 2011 12:48:50pm

re: #240 Obdicut

Okay we disagree on who has had the major successes in stopping nuclear power. If you do not see the connection between left wing opposition to Yucca mountain and a lack of storage facilities, or instances of biofraud or the obvious connection between left wing driven 3 Mile Island radiation hysteria and insurance issues I just can’t explain with or without good links.
I would point out in my original post that I wanted far left extremism called out in addition to the GOP extremism. So your third paragraph comparison is just not applicable.
I’m making the point that extremism from both sides holds the nation back from real progress on many fronts. Arguing only one kind of extreme behavior should be called out via comparisons ignores far too many instances of problems. Like biofraud potentially effecting land use rules over very large areas.

243 Querent  Feb 7, 2011 12:50:05pm

re: #164 moderatelyradicalliberal

Also a lot of moderates have left. They just don’t like the GOP anymore. The GOP had shrunk quite a bit by 2008 leaving a much larger portion of highly motivated and concentrated crazy. The inmates are running the asylum because a lot of the guards have quit.

UPding for that last sentence!

244 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Feb 7, 2011 12:50:58pm

re: #242 Rightwingconspirator

Okay we disagree on who has had the major successes in stopping nuclear power.

Did you read the article that you linked?

Arguing only one kind of extreme behavior should be called out via comparisons ignores far too many instances of problems.

But nobody is arguing that. I’m really unsure why you think anyone is.

245 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Feb 7, 2011 1:39:25pm

re: #7 Gus 802

This is the worst I’ve seen it in years. They may in fact have reverted back to a time worse then the 1980s when Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson reigned supreme. Backwards, archaic, revanchist, etc., are many words that come to mind.

it’s like the 1980s, but instead of Reagan manipulating the superstitious far right rabble, it’s the other way around, they’re manipulating the GOP

246 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Feb 7, 2011 1:42:55pm

re: #49 Stanley Sea

This is the American Taliban.

yup!

247 samgak  Feb 7, 2011 9:00:25pm

This is hardly a new or shocking position from the Catholic Church.


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