Saturday Afternoon Open
A thread, open
Open • Views: 29,853
In the middle of an otherwise ordinary Saturday afternoon, suddenly a thread appears that is even more ordinary. “An open thread,” the wise men say. “Groovy.”
468 comments
1 |
Mark Winter Sat, Sep 17, 2011 3:25:30pm |
Not that ordinary here.
In Munich the Oktoberfest has started.
Excellent beer, busty chicks in dirndls and sunny warm weather.
2 |
PhillyPretzel Sat, Sep 17, 2011 3:27:40pm |
Ahh. There is nothing like the smell of a new thread.
3 |
prairiefire Sat, Sep 17, 2011 3:27:44pm |
Saturday, in the park, every days the 4th of
July.
4 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Sep 17, 2011 3:28:05pm |
re: #1 Mark Winter
And I praise the Lord for being spared by it.
5 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Sep 17, 2011 3:28:38pm |
re: #1 Mark Winter
Not that ordinary here.
In Munich the Oktoberfest has started.
Excellent beer, busty chicks in dirndls and sunny warm weather.
“A bad day to be a bush in Bavaria”
—Report by an AFN newscaster over a scene of a reveler lightening load
| 6 |
Mark Winter Sat, Sep 17, 2011 3:31:07pm |
re: #4 000G
And I praise the Lord for being spared by it.
You haven’t seen the chicks obviously. Lots of Americans btw
| 7 |
Mark Winter Sat, Sep 17, 2011 3:33:44pm |
re: #5 Decatur Deb
“A bad day to be a bush in Bavaria”
—Report by an AFN newscaster over a scene of a reveler lightening load
At least it’s organic
8 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Sep 17, 2011 3:33:54pm |
My latest Page, for the eggheads amongst us:
| 9 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Sep 17, 2011 3:38:11pm |
re: #6 Mark Winter
You haven’t seen the chicks obviously.
No, I have. But apart from the chicks in the colder regions of Germany being hotter, I am taken anyway.
Lots of Americans btw
| 10 |
PhillyPretzel Sat, Sep 17, 2011 3:38:37pm |
re: #8 CuriousLurker
A good thing to know about and how to find it.
11 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 17, 2011 3:41:13pm |
If you saw Curious Lurker’s Page on using “pull quotes” in your LGF Pages, I made it a lot easier to do today.
Instead of using style tags, all you need to do is wrap the quote in a <span> tag, and add two classes to the span, like this:
<span class="aleft pullquote">"A pull quote"</span>
That creates a pull quote that floats to the left of a paragraph. To put it on the right, use the class “aright” instead of “aleft.”
You can also have a second “credit line” in a smaller font, by using a second span tag (with no class) nested inside the first one, like this:
<span class="aleft pullquote">"A pull quote"<span>-- Credit line</span></span>
| 12 |
Mark Winter Sat, Sep 17, 2011 3:46:16pm |
re: #9 000G
No, I have. But apart from the chicks in the colder regions of Germany being hotter, I am taken anyway.
I’m afraid I haven’t got enough samples yet to prove or disprove your theory scientifically but I’m working on it.
| 13 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:00:00pm |
I used the new pull quotes in Obdicut’s post today, by the way.
14 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:01:23pm |
re: #13 Charles
Cool. Looks quite professional.
| 15 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:01:58pm |
Wow, Breitbart peddles the same pseudo-history BS about “cultural marxism” that Breivik has (look for mentions of Adorno in his manifesto).
Gramsci died in 1937, did not flee Hitler, and never went to the USA, btw. That’s just an aside, though.
16 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:03:52pm |
re: #13 Charles
I used the new pull quotes in Obdicut’s post today, by the way.
Ah, so that’s a pull quote. Looks really nice.
| 17 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:04:04pm |
re: #11 Charles
If you saw Curious Lurker’s Page on using “pull quotes” in your LGF Pages, I made it a lot easier to do today.
Instead of using style tags, all you need to do is wrap the quote in a <span> tag, and add two classes to the span, like this:
<span class="aleft pullquote">"A pull quote"</span>That creates a pull quote that floats to the left of a paragraph. To put it on the right, use the class “aright” instead of “aleft.”
You can also have a second “credit line” in a smaller font, by using a second span tag (with no class) nested inside the first one, like this:
<span class="aleft pullquote">"A pull quote"<span>-- Credit line</span></span>
That’s great. I was kinda hoping you’d do something to make it easier for everyone, but I didn’t want to ask as I figured you already have a lot on your plate.
| 18 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:06:56pm |
re: #16 Killgore Trout
Ah, so that’s a pull quote. Looks really nice.
Yeah, I like the green text—it really stands out.
22 |
Political Atheist Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:10:48pm |
| 23 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:11:21pm |
| 24 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:14:31pm |
re: #22 Rightwingconspirator
re: #13 Charles
You two are inspiring me to take some time to learn this stuff. Now that I got a handle on some newer features in Adobe Premiere I may just be able to find the motivation.
It’s really not that hard one you understand the basic concepts. Browser bugs & inconsistencies can be a PITA, but if you follow best practices and have a decent handle on the previously mentioned concepts, you’ll be fine. Just holler if you ever need a list of resources.
| 25 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:15:32pm |
re: #17 CuriousLurker
It might be better from a semantic coding standpoint to use the blockquote tag to style the quotes - I notice that’s how you did it, with paragraphs inside the blockquote. But blockquotes are problematic for other reasons and there’s already a lot of special case code to handle them - I didn’t want to add any more complexity.
Spans are semantically not great, but I don’t have to change anything in the back-end code to accommodate them. On the other hand, I just discovered an HTML tag I hadn’t known about before: <q>. Specifically for marking up small quotes. I may switch to this one.
| 26 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:15:56pm |
Good article on styling quotes:
| 29 |
Political Atheist Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:20:37pm |
re: #24 CuriousLurker
It’s really not that hard one you understand the basic concepts. Browser bugs & inconsistencies can be a PITA, but if you follow best practices and have a decent handle on the previously mentioned concepts, you’ll be fine. Just holler if you ever need a list of resources.
Sure, I could use that list. The basics is exactly where I am starting. Preview is going to become more than a casual friend.
| 30 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:21:24pm |
re: #25 Charles
On the other hand, I just discovered an HTML tag I hadn’t known about before: <q>. Specifically for marking up small quotes. I may switch to this one.
I thought <q>. was for quotes that cite sources in URI form. As in <q cite=”source”>…</q>
| 31 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:22:03pm |
re: #25 Charles
It might be better from a semantic coding standpoint to use the blockquote tag to style the quotes - I notice that’s how you did it, with paragraphs inside the blockquote. But blockquotes are problematic for other reasons and there’s already a lot of special case code to handle them - I didn’t want to add any more complexity.
Spans are semantically not great, but I don’t have to change anything in the back-end code to accommodate them. On the other hand, I just discovered an HTML tag I hadn’t known about before: <q>. Specifically for marking up small quotes. I may switch to this one.
Yeah, I probably should’ve left the paragraphs out. I even hesitated with the blockquotes because I didn’t want to cause issues with existing styles, but I went ahead anyway. I’ll look into the <q> tag—I’d heard of it, but had forgotten about it. Looks like it could work without getting in the way.
| 32 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:23:06pm |
re: #30 000G
I thought <q>. was for quotes that cite sources in URI form. As in <q cite=”source”>…</q>
I think I got things confused… w3schools.com w3schools.com
| 33 |
Political Atheist Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:23:13pm |
re: #26 Charles
Good article on styling quotes:
[Link: www.smashingmagazine.com…]
Their link to HTML Dog looks really useful for a rookie like me. Thanks.
| 34 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:24:42pm |
re: #33 Rightwingconspirator
Their link to HTML Dog looks really useful for a rookie like me. Thanks.
HTML Dog is one of the things that was going to be on my list. It’s an excellent resource divided up into easy to digest chunks.
| 35 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:25:56pm |
re: #32 000G
There’s a <cite> tag, and also a “cite” attribute for the <q> tag. I don’t think the cite attribute is supported very well though.
| 36 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:26:06pm |
Update on the massive planned protests in New York…
Protesters Begin Effort to ‘Occupy Wall Street’
Protesters are gathering on Wall Street today in a movement they call “Occupy Wall Street.”
As of noon, hundreds of protesters gathered at Bowling Green Park in Manhattan, home of the iconic charging bull in New York’s Financial District as they prepare to “take the bull by the horns,” as said on a flyer advertising the event.
“The one thing we all have in common is that We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%,” said a statement on the website Occupy Wall Street.
According to statements on the website, the movement, an offshoot of online magazine AdBusters, is angered by what it calls the principle of “profit over and above all else,” which it says has dominated not only America’s economic policies, but also the way in which Americans view culture and humanity.
Posts on the website compare the group’s efforts to those used in pro-democracy movements across the Middle East, dubbed the Arab Spring.
“On the 17th of September, we want to see 20,000 people to flood into lower Manhattan, set up beds, kitchens, peaceful barricades and occupy Wall Street for a few months,” one statement says. “Like our brothers and sisters in Egypt, Greece, Spain, and Iceland, we plan to use the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic of mass occupation to restore democracy in America.
Almost as big as a Sarah Palin rally.
| 37 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:28:11pm |
re: #29 Rightwingconspirator
Sure, I could use that list. The basics is exactly where I am starting. Preview is going to become more than a casual friend.
I see your email address is in your profile, so I’ll send you some links either later tonight or tomorrow sometime.
| 38 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:28:29pm |
re: #36 Killgore Trout
Update on the massive planned protests in New York…
Protesters Begin Effort to ‘Occupy Wall Street’Almost as big as a Sarah Palin rally.
I saw that - had to laugh. Great idea, “protest” Wall Street on a Saturday. And pretend it’s in solidarity with the Arab Spring. Those people are delusional.
| 39 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:29:46pm |
re: #35 Charles
There’s a <cite> tag, and also a “cite” attribute for the <q> tag. I don’t think the cite attribute is supported very well though.
sez w3schools:
The cite attribute is not supported by any of the major browsers.
| 40 |
Political Atheist Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:30:06pm |
re: #37 CuriousLurker
Thank you very much.
| 41 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:30:17pm |
re: #38 Charles
The msm seems to have tried avoid “crowd” shots. This is the best I can find…
Image: 610x.jpg
Looks like maybe a dozen people.
43 |
Pavlovian Hive Mind Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:35:22pm |
re: #36 Killgore Trout
On a Saturday.
Lol, that’ll show them!
If…
Only they were at work.
XD
| 44 |
Political Atheist Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:35:40pm |
Looks like we have a kerfuffle in the making.
politico.com
Kinds sucks when an authors “sources” disavow the quotes.
Former communications director Anita Dunn is described by Suskind as feeling she worked in an overwhelmingly male environment at the White House
“[T]his place would be in court for a hostile workplace … Because it actually fit all of the classic legal requirements for a genuinely hostile workplace to women,” Suskind quotes her as saying.
Both Summers and Dunn disputed the quotations attributed to them.
| 46 |
Political Atheist Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:47:36pm |
re: #35 Charles
So these more advances formatting tricks are good for pages but not comments, if I understand correctly. Comments are more limited than Pages, right?
47 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:48:14pm |
re: #41 Killgore Trout
A few more people standing around in Zuccotti Park, around the corner from the American Stock Exchange:
storyful.com
| 48 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:49:23pm |
OK - I added the <q> tag to the list of allowed HTML tags for LGF Pages, for marking up pull quotes. So you can do this:
<q class="aleft">"A pull quote"</q>
To put it on the right, use the class “aright” instead of “aleft.”
The second “credit line” in a smaller font still uses a nested span tag:
<q class="aleft">"A pull quote"<span>-- Credit line</span></q>
49 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:54:30pm |
re: #4 000G
And I praise the Lord for being spared by it.
It was kind of fun as a 20 yo GI in 1982 ;) Wish I still had that Hofbrau liter mug, but it got smashed by the movers when I moved back stateside.
| 50 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:55:27pm |
Here’s the CSS for pull quotes:
q {
width: 200px;
border-style: double none double none;
border-color: #D0D0D0;
padding: 0.4em 0;
text-align: left;
font-size: 1.5em;
font-weight: bold;
font-family: ‘Trebuchet MS’, sans-serif;
letter-spacing: -0.06em;
color: #00880B;
line-height: 1.3em;
position: relative;
top: 6px;
margin-bottom: 2px;
}
q span {
display: block;
font-size: 0.7em;
font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal;
color: #888;
}
q:before, q:after {
content: “”;
}
That last part removes the default quotation marks that browsers add to content inside <q> tags, so you can use whatever quotation mark style you want.
51 |
Gus Sat, Sep 17, 2011 4:56:39pm |
re: #36 Killgore Trout
Update on the massive planned protests in New York…
Protesters Begin Effort to ‘Occupy Wall Street’Almost as big as a Sarah Palin rally.
Yeah. How dare they freely express themselves in a democracy amidst the institutions that destroyed our economy for years to come.
52 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:12:04pm |
re: #15 000G
Yeah, he’s rattling off the Frankfurt School names (lol as if he’s ever read any of them.) Breivik had this crap exported to him by the US’s conservative bigots.
| 53 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:13:59pm |
re: #44 Rightwingconspirator
Looks like we have a kerfuffle in the making.
[Link: www.politico.com…]Kinds sucks when an authors “sources” disavow the quotes.
Former communications director Anita Dunn is described by Suskind as feeling she worked in an overwhelmingly male environment at the White House
I do not recommend an IT career for Ms. Dunn, then.
54 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:14:56pm |
re: #51 Gus 802
Yeah. How dare they freely express themselves in a democracy amidst the institutions that destroyed our economy for years to come.
I may not agree with all their tactics and rhetoric and I dont care for some of the groups involved, however the issue of corporate money/influence in our politics and government is an important one.
It needs to be highlighted. This may not be the best way to do it, but at least it brings some attention to the matter.
As long as they keep it peaceful, I am OK with it.
| 55 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:17:18pm |
| 56 |
Political Atheist Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:18:09pm |
re: #53 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I do not recommend an IT career for Ms. Dunn, then.
Well I’m pretty skeptical overall since the quotes are being disavowed. I never thought about IT as a boys club, thought it was pretty much a performance based field. Might be that “nerd” social phenomenon? Dunno.
| 57 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:20:09pm |
re: #56 Rightwingconspirator
Well I’m pretty skeptical overall since the quotes are being disavowed. I never thought about IT as a boys club, thought it was pretty much a performance based field. Might be that “nerd” social phenomenon? Dunno.
It’s more of the latter but definitely has elements of both. Some of the fellas really do like their homosocial environments and have no problem letting one know, but who has time for them.
| 58 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:20:10pm |
re: #56 Rightwingconspirator
Heh. Only on Politico is Carville a ‘prominent Democrat’. He must have loved them for writing that.
| 59 |
Pavlovian Hive Mind Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:20:43pm |
re: #58 Obdicut
Heh. Only on Politico is Carville a ‘prominent Democrat’. He must have loved them for writing that.
Carville has a sad now.
Meanie!
/
| 60 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:21:02pm |
re: #51 Gus 802
Yeah. How dare they freely express themselves in a democracy amidst the institutions that destroyed our economy for years to come.
Hey, don’t get me wrong. They have a perfect right to protest. My eyebrow starts going up, though, when they compare themselves to Arab protesters, who risked massacres and torture after living under brutal dictatorships for their whole lives.
| 61 |
Political Atheist Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:22:10pm |
re: #51 Gus 802
Hyperbole is not their friend.
62 |
laZardo Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:22:23pm |
re: #60 Charles
Hey, don’t get me wrong. They have a perfect right to protest. My eyebrow starts going up, though, when they compare themselves to Arab protesters, who risked massacres and torture after living under brutal dictatorships for their whole lives.
Considering the path that we’re headed, not just in economic but privacy terms as well, might as well get the protests started before the dictatorship actually begins. Learning from them as it were.
| 63 |
Pavlovian Hive Mind Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:26:13pm |
re: #62 laZardo
Considering the path that we’re headed, not just in economic but privacy terms as well, might as well get the protests started before the dictatorship actually begins. Learning from them as it were.
Huh?
| 64 |
laZardo Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:29:04pm |
re: #63 Varek Raith
Our economy is in shambles and we’re still throwing away money for three wars - two we never should’ve gone in for, and one whose mission we accomplished in the country next to the one we started. Why can’t we use that money to rebuild our own country instead (and not just our encroaching “security” bureaucracy?)
| 65 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:32:01pm |
re: #60 Charles
Hey, don’t get me wrong. They have a perfect right to protest. My eyebrow starts going up, though, when they compare themselves to Arab protesters, who risked massacres and torture after living under brutal dictatorships for their whole lives.
It’s a miracle that in today’s economic and political environment that they couldn’t even muster enough people to protest against the dicks who caused the global economic crisis. Epic fail.
| 66 |
Pavlovian Hive Mind Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:32:25pm |
re: #64 laZardo
Our economy is in shambles and we’re still throwing away money for three wars - two we never should’ve gone in for, and one whose mission we accomplished in the country next to the one we started. Why can’t we use that money to rebuild our own country instead (and not just our encroaching “security” bureaucracy?)
That, I get.
before the dictatorship actually begins
^ This, I don’t.
| 67 |
Political Atheist Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:33:14pm |
re: #65 Killgore Trout
Anonymous is on their side. What could go wrong?
//
68 |
AlexRogan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:35:28pm |
re: #60 Charles
Hey, don’t get me wrong. They have a perfect right to protest. My eyebrow starts going up, though, when they compare themselves to Arab protesters, who risked massacres and torture after living under brutal dictatorships for their whole lives.
I consider these Wall Street protesters to be Godwining themselves (of sorts) severely by comparing themselves to ANYONE involved protesting and fighting to free themselves from real tyranny and oppression in the any of the Arab Spring countries.
These folks protesting The Man down on Wall Street (which is well within their right since The Man has been screwing over Americans in the name of maximum profit for years), in my opinion, know fuck-all about being oppressed and just need to get over their damn selves.
| 69 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:35:38pm |
re: #64 laZardo
I support non-violent protests. Hell, I was at one this weekend, for the workers at the Boathouse who have had to endure union-busting, terrible working conditions, sexual harassment, etc. etc.
But shit, that doesn’t make me comparable to those in the Arab spring, or even to a labor rights protester in South America. I was in no danger of life or limb. I was perfectly safe to exercise my right to protest.
70 |
darthstar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:36:23pm |
Day 1 of the MS ride is over…nice 40(38.4) mile jaunt…took 2.5 hours of riding time…average speed 14.97mph Not too shabby.
Only hotel we could get is the Days Inn…I’ll talk about non-smoking rooms that smell like an ashtray at a later date…but at least the front lobby also serves as a Greyhound bus station and Indian Casino shuttle drop…and the guys out front were smoking decent pot judging from the smell…and our rooms are adjoining, so the fact that one front door doesn’t work has an easy work-around.
| 71 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:37:51pm |
re: #69 Obdicut
I support non-violent protests. Hell, I was at one this weekend, for the workers at the Boathouse who have had to endure union-busting, terrible working conditions, sexual harassment, etc. etc.
But shit, that doesn’t make me comparable to those in the Arab spring, or even to a labor rights protester in South America. I was in no danger of life or limb. I was perfectly safe to exercise my right to protest.
Don’t make me report you to Breitbart’s friends in the military.
/
| 72 |
laZardo Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:37:54pm |
re: #66 Varek Raith
re: #69 Obdicut
Hence, before the dictatorship begins. As evidenced by the Walker legislature, for example - as well as the intentions of the Republican party, they want to take us back to the time before Pinkerton was a rent-a-cop division of Securitas.
Why should we wait until someone has to set himself on fire, or until such a dictatorship has had such a prolonged effect on our society that these protests are “the breaking point”?
| 73 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:40:49pm |
re: #71 Killgore Trout
Don’t make me report you to Breitbart’s friends in the military.
/
Heh. Fifty highly pissed off waitresses, busboys and bartenders are not to be fucked with. They’ve got all that stored up rage from not being able to talk back to rude-ass tourists stored up.
74 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:41:42pm |
Just so he sees it…
Jim Lakely, a recently made director of communications for the Heartland Institute has been smugly commenting on the thread that I made to expose Dr. Ivar Giaever’s connection to the Heartland Institute.
He wrote some taunts in the age old wingnut theory that the last comment on a thread somehow “wins.”
This is not surprising given that he used to work for none other than Breitbart and the Washington Times when it was in full on loony mode.
Sooo… Just so he sees it:
Your entire purpose is to obfuscate the science as much as possible. You are so arrogant that you seem to believe that even the laws of nature will somehow care about your delusions. As to you may or may not be back… Well I am sure you will, largely because your ego won’t suffer it or all the other lies, and likely dangerous admissions you have already made here.
For example… Scientists don’t get paid for their work for a conference. The work is done independently and then presented at a conference. I know this because unlike you, I am an actual scientist.
But thank you for admitting that you pay for tainted and untrue work.
You did do that you know.
What you have not done is tell us what your pay scale is. You denied that one exists at first but then let something slip. Well we won’t let you slither out of that.
How much do you pay them?
Anyway. I am off to have an evening with my girl. I’ll be writing up a lot about you, your lies and some other fun things about Dr. Gaiever and his connections to people like you tomorrow. It will be a large and fresh page for you to come and get crucified on.
And if any of you have missed this… please feel free to check out the celebrity troll droppings here:
| 75 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:42:23pm |
re: #72 laZardo
Do you not understand that what’s being complained about is:
A) The protesters comparing themselves to those in the Arab spring and
B) Their ineffectiveness?
Nobody is saying protest isn’t necessary, or isn’t a good thing. You’ll notice I said that I was actually at a union protest. So why are you telling me, someone who was at a union protest, that protest is necessary?
Don’t you think I kind of get that already?
| 76 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:42:37pm |
re: #72 laZardo
re: #69 Obdicut
Hence, before the dictatorship begins. As evidenced by the Walker legislature, for example - as well as the intentions of the Republican party, they want to take us back to the time before Pinkerton was a rent-a-cop division of Securitas.
so where does the muscle come from to install this dictator?
| 77 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:42:47pm |
re: #73 Obdicut
Heh. Fifty highly pissed off waitresses, busboys and bartenders are not to be fucked with. They’ve got all that stored up rage from not being able to talk back to rude-ass tourists stored up.
And by the way, your posts on that thread were excellent and very appreciated.
| 78 |
Pavlovian Hive Mind Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:44:08pm |
re: #77 LudwigVanQuixote
And by the way, your posts on that thread were excellent and very appreciated.
Yes, as were yours.
Me? I’m completely intolerant to those types.
Which is why I just told him to fuck off.
;)
79 |
Carlos Diggler Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:44:56pm |
re: #52 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Yeah, he’s rattling off the Frankfurt School names (lol as if he’s ever read any of them.) Breivik had this crap exported to him by the US’s conservative bigots.
I’m really tired of anything to do with Marxism or communist being some evil association. Doesn’t mean you’re a fan of Joe Stalin. Frankfurt School is not a pejorative.
| 80 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:45:07pm |
re: #78 Varek Raith
Yes, as were yours.
Me? I’m completely intolerant to those types.
Which is why I just told him to fuck off.
;)
Ahh but you see we gave him enough rope to hang himself with. The admission of honoraria for their “experts” is a remarkable one. That is money changing hands.
| 81 |
BishopX Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:45:32pm |
re: #68 talon_262
I think that there is a bit of a movement afoot to associate youth protests in the west with the much more successful protests in the Middle East. These things get laundered as they progress through various cultures.
First there was the Arab spring with angry, under-utilized, tech savy youth fighting against the autocratic regimes. Then there were the protests in Tel Aviv, Athens, Rome, London and Madrid which were also led by under-utilized youth (the unemployment rate in Spain is approaching 50%). So when Americans protesting cronyism and lack of jobs cite their ideological ancestors they start with Tunisia rather than the much more similar protests in Madrid or London or Athens.
| 82 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:45:56pm |
And with that… I am off for a dinner made by my baby and a nice quiet evening. I’ll see you all tomorrow!
Peace out.
| 83 |
darthstar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:46:41pm |
re: #82 LudwigVanQuixote
And with that… I am off for a dinner mad by my baby and a nice quiet evening. I’ll see you all tomorrow!
Peace out.
Creamed peas and bananas again?
| 84 |
laZardo Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:46:49pm |
re: #75 Obdicut
Do you not understand that what’s being complained about is:
A) The protesters comparing themselves to those in the Arab spring and
B) Their ineffectiveness?
Nobody is saying protest isn’t necessary, or isn’t a good thing. You’ll notice I said that I was actually at a union protest. So why are you telling me, someone who was at a union protest, that protest is necessary?
Don’t you think I kind of get that already?
Yeah. I’m just saying there should be more of it, especially now that the pressure’s being piled on from our government and their corporate masters.
| 85 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:48:06pm |
re: #83 darthstar
Creamed peas and bananas again?
LOL, she’s 27!
Rack of lamb with a mint basil pesto and an almond cake for desert. I really love her. So yeah… I’m out.
| 86 |
darthstar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:48:43pm |
Okay…time to watch a little college football and rest until dinner time.
| 87 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:50:06pm |
re: #79 BigPapa
I’m really tired of anything to do with Marxism or communist being some evil association. Doesn’t mean you’re a fan of Joe Stalin. Frankfurt School is not a pejorative.
Yeah, it’s a form of magical thinking, imo. Breitbart, Breivik and the rest of the Resentment Contingent make themselves very exploitable, by their belief and use of scare terms. As much as they crow about “political correctness”, their lot perfected it: heresy, Inquisitions, purity laws punishable by death, etc.
| 88 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:50:09pm |
re: #81 BishopX
It’s also frustrating because while protests like that can be effective, there are much better openings for those of us who live in a democratic, free society. Join up with an actual union as a volunteer, write your congresspeople, work for those who you want to see get elected. Protest is well and good but it’s not nearly enough; it’s much more powerful to actually engage in the political arena. Obama won partially on the backs of a huge get out the vote operation.
Protest looks cool and is media friendly, but it’s got very limited utility. The Boathouse is being investigated by the labor board and relies on tourists for income. They have to cross the picket line to eat there— and the protesters are carrying signs showing that the restaurant received a “C” grade on sanitation. That’s an effective protest.
Protesting wall street on a Saturday? You’re not even inconveniencing them. You want to protest, get in their damn faces. Don’t just try to get your picture in the paper.
| 89 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:52:03pm |
re: #84 laZardo
Yeah. I’m just saying there should be more of it, especially now that the pressure’s being piled on from our government and their corporate masters.
What have you done lately? Do you know who your congresspeople are? Are you in regular contact with them on issues you care about? Have you joined any groups or organizations that are agitating for things that you believe in? Are you helping with get out the vote or voter registration drives?
Protest is not the most effective means to change government. Not by a long damn shot. What actual effect do you think that protest will have on Wall Street?
| 90 |
Pavlovian Hive Mind Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:52:04pm |
re: #88 Obdicut
It’s also frustrating because while protests like that can be effective, there are much better openings for those of us who live in a democratic, free society. Join up with an actual union as a volunteer, write your congresspeople, work for those who you want to see get elected. Protest is well and good but it’s not nearly enough; it’s much more powerful to actually engage in the political arena. Obama won partially on the backs of a huge get out the vote operation.
Protest looks cool and is media friendly, but it’s got very limited utility. The Boathouse is being investigated by the labor board and relies on tourists for income. They have to cross the picket line to eat there— and the protesters are carrying signs showing that the restaurant received a “C” grade on sanitation. That’s an effective protest.
Protesting wall street on a Saturday? You’re not even inconveniencing them. You want to protest, get in their damn faces. Don’t just try to get your picture in the paper.
We need a blimp.
No!
TWO blimps!
RON PAUL!
91 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:53:18pm |
| 92 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:53:47pm |
re: #89 Obdicut
What have you done lately? Do you know who your congresspeople are? Are you in regular contact with them on issues you care about? Have you joined any groups or organizations that are agitating for things that you believe in? Are you helping with get out the vote or voter registration drives?
Protest is not the most effective means to change government. Not by a long damn shot. What actual effect do you think that protest will have on Wall Street?
I hate to say it…but the tea party method was much more effective.
| 93 |
Pavlovian Hive Mind Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:54:33pm |
re: #92 blueraven
I hate to say it…but the tea party method was much more effective.
Short term, perhaps.
Long term, they are hated by most of the country.
;)
| 94 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:55:00pm |
re: #92 blueraven
I hate to say it…but the tea party method was much more effective.
Especially at alienating the moderates who hate extremist assholes of any ilk.
| 95 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:55:23pm |
re: #93 Varek Raith
Short term, perhaps.
Long term, they are hated by most of the country.
;)
Right, but they got attention. Their cause is muddled.
| 96 |
AlexRogan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:55:43pm |
re: #72 laZardo
re: #69 Obdicut
Hence, before the dictatorship begins. As evidenced by the Walker legislature, for example - as well as the intentions of the Republican party, they want to take us back to the time before Pinkerton was a rent-a-cop division of Securitas.
Just a sidebar, but Pinkerton went “legit” on strikebreaking long before Securitas bought them 12-13 years ago. I spent almost eight years working for them as a guard (from 1995 to 2003) and even then, they were thoroughly corporatized and had been for a long time. Needless to say, the official corporate history whitewashed (or just left out) things that reflected bad on the company, such as the Homestead Strike (which saw plenty of brutality from both sides).
| 97 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:56:01pm |
re: #92 blueraven
I hate to say it…but the tea party method was much more effective.
I’m not sure what you mean by the tea party method. The astroturfing? The volumes of disinformation put out by the media?
I mean, I obviously am only going to advocate methods I think are actually, y’know, ethical.
| 98 |
BishopX Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:57:19pm |
re: #88 Obdicut
This is one of those areas were the protestors are hobbled by a lack of leadership, common ideology or proposed solutions. Yeah, writing tour elected offices to say “I am X, situation Y is affecting me and I would like you to do Z” is more effective than standing around lower Manhattan with a sign. But you have to have a Z first, which this movement doesn’t have. Showing up to a protest is easy.
| 99 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:58:01pm |
re: #95 blueraven
Right, but they got attention. Their cause is muddled.
Know what else gets attention? A fly right before it gets swatted.
| 100 |
Pavlovian Hive Mind Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:58:10pm |
re: #95 blueraven
Right, but they got attention. Their cause is muddled.
There cause is muddled and toxic because they got said attention.
| 101 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:58:31pm |
re: #97 Obdicut
I’m not sure what you mean by the tea party method. The astroturfing? The volumes of disinformation put out by the media?
I mean, I obviously am only going to advocate methods I think are actually, y’know, ethical.
I mean showing up at your congress persons meetings, putting pressure on them and basically getting organized and loud. Of course I do not approve of their unethical practices and lies.
| 102 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Sep 17, 2011 5:59:59pm |
re: #88 Obdicut
It’s also frustrating because while protests like that can be effective, there are much better openings for those of us who live in a democratic, free society. Join up with an actual union as a volunteer, write your congresspeople, work for those who you want to see get elected. Protest is well and good but it’s not nearly enough; it’s much more powerful to actually engage in the political arena. Obama won partially on the backs of a huge get out the vote operation.
Protest looks cool and is media friendly, but it’s got very limited utility. The Boathouse is being investigated by the labor board and relies on tourists for income. They have to cross the picket line to eat there— and the protesters are carrying signs showing that the restaurant received a “C” grade on sanitation. That’s an effective protest.
Protesting wall street on a Saturday? You’re not even inconveniencing them. You want to protest, get in their damn faces. Don’t just try to get your picture in the paper.
I saw this happening with the Clinic Defense wars of the late 80s-early 90s, before people started to acknowledge it was mostly for the cameras. All I have on that are personal anecdotes and can’t point to anything concrete that I can link to. But those Civil Rights tactics started to wear thin about that time, in part because those tactics were so effective.
But people got really burnt out in the 50s-60s, getting their heads bashed in for getting on a bus or trying to put a ballot in a box. That’s why when those flotilla dorks compare themselves to Freedom Riders or *actual* anti-Apartheid activists, it makes me want to throw things.
The crap I’ve dealt with has been very personally taxing and has cost a great deal. But I would never compare it to what those who came before me went through. And comparing a Saturday protest of Wall Street — when all of Wall Street is at home and you can hear a pin drop — to Arab Spring, where your government just might KILL YOU..ohh, uh-uh.
| 103 |
Political Atheist Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:00:43pm |
re: #92 blueraven
I hate to say it…but the tea party method was much more effective.
re: #97 Obdicut
Myself, I’d not necessarily credit their method with their popularity. More like lucky or opportunistic timing-Crashed economy, Dem President, Black President… Backlash on many levels. Taking advantage of populist anger is all it really was or is.
| 104 |
Talking Point Detective Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:02:03pm |
Very interesting blog post.
Anyone who has spent any time at “skeptical” climate change websites has, no doubt, heard it said many times that “Most ‘skeptics’ don’t doubt that the Earth is warming, and most even don’t doubt that anthropogenic CO2 warms the climate, they only doubt to what degree the Earth is warming and to what degree that warming is anthropogenically driven.”
I have seen this stated many times at WUWT and Judith Curry’s blog, Climate Etc. And of course, if you visit the comments sections of those blogs, you find many a “skeptic” who even try to argue that a correct view of physics would show that CO2 cannot warm the atmosphere (they have a variety of reasons, some of which, of course, but many claim that CO2 as a greenhouse gas breaks basic laws of thermodynamics).
Here’s a very nice blog post that completely explodes that myth that is often promoted by “lukewarmers”:
According to George Madison University’s brilliant “Six Americas” bi-yearly poll, 10% of Americans are “dismissive” of global warming — these are your hard-core skeptics. They are the only group polled where more people thought “The US should not reduce it emissions” (46%) than that we should (26%). Among the next most-skeptical group, the “doubtful” (15% of those polled) twelve times as many people thought we should reduce emissions (59%) versus not (5%!) “Dismissives” are the only group to oppose developing sources of clean energy (45% versus 44%), something that the “doubtful” strongly favor (88% for versus 12% against) and the public as a whole favors 91% to 9%.
“Dismissives,” then, represent their own group with distinctive opinions; they are the one the rest of us refer to as climate deniers. Is it true they mostly concede the world is warming?
Nope:
Positive responsive for the statement “Global warming isn’t happening”:
All responders: 11%
Doubtful: 21%
Dismissive: 60%Sixty percent of the hardcore deniers think global warming is not happening at all (the rest think humans aren’t the primary cause), temperatures are not changing, full stop. The people with the pitchforks are not more reasonable than they seem: I’ll be posting more of the amazing findings of the “Six Americas” research anon. But the minor myth that the bulk of deniers have shifted to the lukewarmist position and accept the world is warming, human actions are causing warming, and that “uncertainty” or the cost of mitigation are their primary concerns — not true, according to the people holding the torches.
| 105 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:02:13pm |
There’s a reason the teabaggers want to limit voting rights- they fear large voter turnout, particularly by minorities, young people, and the urban poor, mainly because those groups tend to vote heavily Democratic. By working as a get-out-the-vote volunteer for Obama or your local Democratic candidates, you can help counter their tactics. It’s got to be a hell of a lot more effective than than 20 or so college hipsters standing on Wall Street with bullhorns and signs on a Saturday.
| 106 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:02:20pm |
re: #96 talon_262
Needless to say, the official corporate history whitewashed (or just left out) things that reflected bad on the company, such as the Homestead Strike (which saw plenty of brutality from both sides).
| 107 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:03:33pm |
re: #101 blueraven
I mean showing up at your congress persons meetings, putting pressure on them and basically getting organized and loud. Of course I do not approve of their unethical practices and lies.
Yes, I agree. The Town Hall stuff was effective on multiple levels, and while I think they were assholes for shouting and screaming, showing up is still important.
I’m currently organizing freelancers to meet with their state senators in support of the Freelancer Payment Protection Act, and lots of people I get into contact with are surprised that they ‘let’ you do that. But when we walk into a state senator’s office with a group of ten freelancers, all small business owners, all competent, intelligent people, the senators definitely take notice.
All political power stems from the people.
108 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:05:16pm |
re: #60 Charles
Hey, don’t get me wrong. They have a perfect right to protest. My eyebrow starts going up, though, when they compare themselves to Arab protesters, who risked massacres and torture after living under brutal dictatorships for their whole lives.
Still better than the writer for the London Guardian who decided to compare the BART protests in SF to Tahrir Square.
| 110 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:09:05pm |
re: #108 SanFranciscoZionist
Still better than the writer for the London Guardian who decided to compare the BART protests in SF to Tahrir Square.
Wait!
You mean to tell me, blocking my cell service between 24th/Mission and Civic Center for a few minutes isn’t the same as Egyptian soldiers shooting to kill?
What?!
| 111 |
Talking Point Detective Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:11:00pm |
re: #110 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Wait!
You mean to tell me, blocking my cell service between 24th/Mission and Civic Center for a few minutes isn’t the same as Egyptian soldiers shooting to kill?
What?!
What was the outcome of all that, anyway?
| 112 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:12:06pm |
re: #106 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Since at least the Molly Maguires. We still sort of celebrated the Homestead Strike in Pittsburgh.
| 113 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:13:35pm |
| 114 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:14:44pm |
Obdicut’s page seems to be a big hit on Reddit
| 115 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:15:17pm |
re: #113 Killgore Trout
Rotfl
“‘Senior Fellow’ at ‘Senior Fellow Institute of Senior Fellow Studies’. Suffers from Narcissistic Personality RTing Disorder; Motto: ‘They Started It!’ “
| 116 |
Carlos Diggler Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:16:20pm |
re: #114 Killgore Trout
Obdicut’s page seems to be a big hit on Reddit
I’ve had some FB’ers get riled up by it, then some reposts.
| 117 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:18:11pm |
re: #115 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Rotfl
“‘Senior Fellow’ at ‘Senior Fellow Institute of Senior Fellow Studies’. Suffers from Narcissistic Personality RTing Disorder; Motto: ‘They Started It!’ “
That reads like parody, but much of the site looks real. Time to Lysol my router.
| 118 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:18:28pm |
re: #115 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Rotfl
“‘Senior Fellow’ at ‘Senior Fellow Institute of Senior Fellow Studies’. Suffers from Narcissistic Personality RTing Disorder; Motto: ‘They Started It!’ “
Personally, “El Dou-che” would be more fitting.
| 119 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:22:04pm |
AndrewBreitbart AndrewBreitbart
My point stands, magical ponytail man. If you libs continue to prod, poke, spit, lie, malign & attack, we are ready. @Lizardoid
| 120 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:22:17pm |
re: #111 Talking Point Detective
What was the outcome of all that, anyway?
Must admit, I didn’t really follow it that closely. TMK, James Brown put it best:
| 121 |
Pavlovian Hive Mind Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:22:44pm |
| 122 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:22:51pm |
can’t say enough awful things about Andy….there should be a contest
| 123 |
Carlos Diggler Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:23:04pm |
| 124 |
Political Atheist Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:23:43pm |
re: #119 Killgore Trout
When men like this threaten violence, you have already won the battle.
| 125 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:23:50pm |
| 126 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:24:01pm |
re: #119 Killgore Trout
AndrewBreitbart AndrewBreitbart
So debating their talking points means you need to watch out for physical reprisal, but they’re not the fascists?
127 |
wrenchwench Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:24:27pm |
re: #119 Killgore Trout
AndrewBreitbart AndrewBreitbart
He’s been cut to the quick:
@AndrewBreitbart
biggest loser ever —> @Lizardoid
| 128 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:24:35pm |
| 129 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:24:47pm |
re: #124 Rightwingconspirator
When men like this threaten violence, you have already won the battle.
he’s wearing a fresh Depends
130 |
bratwurst Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:25:56pm |
re: #119 Killgore Trout
AndrewBreitbart AndrewBreitbart
My point stands, magical ponytail man. If you libs continue to prod, poke, spit, lie, malign & attack, we are ready. @Lizardoid
| 131 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:27:12pm |
| 132 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:27:47pm |
re: #126 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
They’re ready. Ready for what? For armed insurrection? Against being ‘maligned’?
Kind of a disproportionate response, as well as an ironic one. To paraphrase (please note, these are not actual quotes, but used to represent his ‘logic’.)
“Breitbart, your policies are dangerous and you’re a threat to society”
“Call me a threat to society, will you? That’s it— I’m going to start shooting people.”
| 133 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:28:41pm |
Prod, Poke, Spit, Lie, Malign & Attack
My lawyers!
| 135 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:29:51pm |
re: #132 Obdicut
They’re ready. Ready for what? For armed insurrection? Against being ‘maligned’?
Kind of a disproportionate response, as well as an ironic one. To paraphrase (please note, these are not actual quotes, but used to represent his ‘logic’.)
“Breitbart, your policies are dangerous and you’re a threat to society”
“Call me a threat to society, will you? That’s it— I’m going to start shooting people.”
Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words means I’ll call for a military coup and round you up and send your ass to a camp.
| 136 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:30:12pm |
Just so you know —don’t buy Chinese Condoms, you’ll waste your money.
How is everyone this evening?
| 137 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:30:20pm |
re: #132 Obdicut
They’re ready. Ready for what? For armed insurrection? Against being ‘maligned’?
Kind of a disproportionate response, as well as an ironic one. To paraphrase (please note, these are not actual quotes, but used to represent his ‘logic’.)
“Breitbart, your policies are dangerous and you’re a threat to society”
“Call me a threat to society, will you? That’s it— I’m going to start shooting people.”
careful….rumor has it he has the US Armed Forces at his disposal
| 138 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:31:26pm |
| 139 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:33:06pm |
Breitbart reminds me of the pimp who was so mad at being described as a pimp in a newspaper article he called up the newspaper and threatened to slap the shit out of all of them.
| 140 |
Carlos Diggler Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:33:53pm |
The Silver Bear has been poked! Grrrowl!
| 141 |
Political Atheist Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:34:17pm |
re: #136 ggt
Just so you know —don’t buy Chinese Condoms, you’ll waste your money.
How is everyone this evening?
I’m fine just relaxing with a cocktail and a smoke. In reference to your post- I don’t sweat the small stuff. :-)
Maybe they tried to sell fingercots labeled as condoms?
| 142 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:34:54pm |
re: #139 Obdicut
Breitbart reminds me of the pimp who was so mad at being described as a pimp in a newspaper article he called up the newspaper and threatened to slap the shit out of all of them.
Reminds me of a MST3K line:
“You calling me a psycho? I’ll kill your whole family if you call me that again!”
| 143 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:35:07pm |
| 144 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:36:02pm |
Monster Puppy is not getting his bath tonite.
I just don’t have the energy.
145 |
Stanley Sea Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:36:14pm |
re: #139 Obdicut
Breitbart reminds me of the pimp who was so mad at being described as a pimp in a newspaper article he called up the newspaper and threatened to slap the shit out of all of them.
His wife! Well she knew what she was getting into.
| 148 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:39:54pm |
AndrewBreitbart AndrewBreitbart
Bring it, Jazzy the magical ponytail man! @Lizardoid
Dweebtastic!
| 149 |
Pavlovian Hive Mind Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:40:31pm |
| 150 |
Carlos Diggler Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:40:51pm |
| 151 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:41:30pm |
I a shocked, shocked, I tell you! The sheer logic and sense this makes.
Standardized Testing for Sex Ed
Someone was really thinking here. I am not joking.
| 152 |
Pavlovian Hive Mind Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:43:25pm |
| 154 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:44:43pm |
re: #151 ggt
I a shocked, shocked, I tell you! The sheer logic and sense this makes.
Standardized Testing for Sex Ed
Someone was really thinking here. I am not joking.
BUT THAT WILL MAKE JESUS CRY!
| 155 |
PhillyPretzel Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:46:09pm |
re: #133 jaunte
Did you ever meet Dewey, Cheatham and Howe? / That was from Car Talk.
| 156 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:48:09pm |
re: #155 PhillyPretzel
I used to live near them.
But it was originally a Three Stooges thing, then Carson, then a lot of other people.
| 157 |
Carlos Diggler Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:48:19pm |
re: #153 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Hey that’s pretty shitty LOL.
| 158 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:49:10pm |
re: #154 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
BUT THAT WILL MAKE JESUS CRY!
I don’t know, I’m thinking that it would be good for kids to learn that you can still get STD’s if you have oral or anal sex. Or that there really is NO SUCH THING as a born-again virgin.
| 159 |
Carlos Diggler Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:51:19pm |
The 62 year old bachelor w a ponytail & a bicycle with Ronald McDonald flag accuses me of arrested development?
Oh jeez. Next he’s going to start calling Charles ‘shutty’ again.
Childish. Arrested development indeed.
| 160 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:51:25pm |
re: #158 ggt
I don’t know, I’m thinking that it would be good for kids to learn that you can still get STD’s if you have oral or anal sex. Or that there really is NO SUCH THING as a born-again virgin.
But having a serious discussion about sex will obviously turn children into sex crazed maniacs.
| 161 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:52:36pm |
re: #160 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
But having a serious discussion about sex will obviously turn children into sex crazed maniacs.
Homeschoolers probably aren’t required to take it. Because it’s the !!ty’th step to socialism.
| 162 |
BishopX Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:53:02pm |
re: #160 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Because any serious discussion of sex will include that the fact that a lot of people seem to find it seriously fun… That’s the big weakness of all the abstinence talk.
| 163 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:53:51pm |
Breitbart’s revolutionaries just invaded my home and snorted all my coke. Now there are elderly folks in lawn chairs in my yard.
| 164 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:54:03pm |
re: #162 BishopX
Because any serious discussion of sex will include that the fact that a lot of people seem to find it seriously fun… That’s the big weakness of all the abstinence talk.
Really? Fun?
It’s about pro-creation and sharing G-d’s creative force and “comforting” your husband. It’s not about fun.
///
| 165 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:55:21pm |
re: #160 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
For me, all it took was hitting puberty. My parents did everything they could to keep all mentions of sex away from me. Taught me masturbation was a crime as was ever thinking of a girl naked. Crazy shit like that.
Effective in repressing my sexuality?
Nope. I found a lot of books that had sex scenes but were still literature. I got stuff from friends.
What did it actually do?
Made me pretty ignorant about sex and sexuality, so when I got to college I was pretty unprepared and had a lot more unsafe sex than I should have.
| 166 |
Carlos Diggler Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:55:56pm |
Was Obama half right about Breitbart ‘clinging to his guns?’
| 167 |
Political Atheist Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:56:39pm |
Hey it’s Saturday Night! Gotta post some new music from a favorite band of mine Crossed Keys
And an old favorite
| 168 |
BishopX Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:57:07pm |
re: #166 BigPapa
Was Obama half right about Breitbart ‘clinging to his guns?’
The issue is that breitbart is clinging to other peoples guns.
| 169 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:57:58pm |
BadAstronomer Phil Plait
Go watch this *amazing*, *incredible* video timelapse from the space station RIGHT NOW! #holyCRAP
| 170 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 6:59:20pm |
re: #165 Obdicut
For me, all it took was hitting puberty. My parents did everything they could to keep all mentions of sex away from me. Taught me masturbation was a crime as was ever thinking of a girl naked. Crazy shit like that.
Effective in repressing my sexuality?
Nope. I found a lot of books that had sex scenes but were still literature. I got stuff from friends.
What did it actually do?
Made me pretty ignorant about sex and sexuality, so when I got to college I was pretty unprepared and had a lot more unsafe sex than I should have.
Teaching ignorance is never a good option.
| 171 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:00:34pm |
Monster Puppy is walking around with one of his big ears over his head. Looks like he’s got a really bad comb-over.
Just thought I’d share.
| 172 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:01:54pm |
I’m home alone for the first time in a long time.
I’m gonna see if there is a movie on-demand that I’D like to watch.
Have a great evening all.
| 173 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:03:57pm |
Penguins attack!
Youtube Video
| 174 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:05:01pm |
If anyone ever wants a good laugh, check out some of the articles on Brietbart’s website. Here’s an especially hilarious sampling:
Glee Readies for Season of Tea Party Trashing!!!
Maybe I’m wrong. Suspending taxpayer funding of the arts sounds awfully good to me, especially if it means focusing on reading and writing. Maybe the show’s finally seen the light and won’t present that “goofy” idea as, well, goofy. But then again, I’m a right-wing, gun-owning, liberty-loving, neanderthal — so what do I know?
The larger picture here is 2012. Hollywood knows Obama can’t win on his failed record and therefore you can expect Hollywood (and the MSM) to pull out all the vicious stops to make our side unelectable. The worse Obama’s poll numbers get, the uglier all of this will get. Count on it.
It’s panic time on the Left and “Glee” summoning all their starpower, gajillions of dollars, and influence to toxify us is only the beginning.
If you want to enter a whole new level of derp, check of some of the cretins who somehow managed to turn their computers on and leave comments, like this brainiac:
Liberalism gets them young, and it has to steal other people’s children because Liberals have aborted most of their own.
Go ahead and try to argue with that airtight logic.
175 |
Randall Gross Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:07:39pm |
Anyone have a pool going on how long Breitbart’s liver is going to last?
| 176 |
Carlos Diggler Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:07:40pm |
2nd Amendment solutions for Liberalism problems
Andrew Breitbart
177 |
sagehen Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:07:50pm |
re: #81 BishopX
I think that there is a bit of a movement afoot to associate youth protests in the west with the much more successful protests in the Middle East. These things get laundered as they progress through various cultures.
First there was the Arab spring with angry, under-utilized, tech savy youth fighting against the autocratic regimes. Then there were the protests in Tel Aviv, Athens, Rome, London and Madrid which were also led by under-utilized youth (the unemployment rate in Spain is approaching 50%). So when Americans protesting cronyism and lack of jobs cite their ideological ancestors they start with Tunisia rather than the much more similar protests in Madrid or London or Athens.
The protests in Israel had hundreds of thousands of people — a full 5% of the country’s population. This thing on Wall Street doesn’t even look to have 5% of that zip code’s residents. There’s less people down there than live in my building.
| 178 |
Political Atheist Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:08:22pm |
179 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:09:02pm |
re: #3 prairiefire
Saturday, in the park, every days the 4th of
July.
“Will help him change the world? Can you dig it?”
DF: Yes to the second, a big HELL NO! to the first.
| 180 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:10:26pm |
re: #174 Atlas Fails
If anyone ever wants a good laugh, check out some of the articles on Brietbart’s website. Here’s an especially hilarious sampling:
Glee Readies for Season of Tea Party Trashing!!!
If you want to enter a whole new level of derp, check of some of the cretins who somehow managed to turn their computers on and leave comments, like this brainiac:
Go ahead and try to argue with that airtight logic.
hyperbole…plenty right here for that matter
| 181 |
BishopX Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:11:44pm |
re: #177 sagehen
My point is that the motivation and tactics are the same, not the organization, support or anger is comparable.
| 182 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:12:01pm |
re: #174 Atlas Fails
If anyone ever wants a good laugh, check out some of the articles on Brietbart’s website. Here’s an especially hilarious sampling:
Glee Readies for Season of Tea Party Trashing!!!
If you want to enter a whole new level of derp, check of some of the cretins who somehow managed to turn their computers on and leave comments, like this brainiac:
Go ahead and try to argue with that airtight logic.
In his rush to demonize, he forgets that Fox is owned by Newscorp. So take it up with Rupert Murdoch, Andy.
| 183 |
Randall Gross Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:12:49pm |
I’ve been looking at pics of the wall street thing, it’s code pink, anon fan boys, anarchist wannabes and the usual Kucinich clowns that show up at things for the left in NY. Earlier in the day when it first started there appeared to be almost a thousand or so in some of the pics, but it really thinned out in the PM.
| 184 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:13:54pm |
re: #183 Thanos
I’ve been looking at pics of the wall street thing, it’s code pink, anon fan boys, anarchist wannabes and the usual Kucinich clowns that show up at things for the left in NY. Earlier in the day when it first started there appeared to be almost a thousand or so in some of the pics, but it really thinned out in the PM.
Protests in America usually end up as nothing more than a public display of idiocy.
| 185 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:15:09pm |
re: #183 Thanos
I’ve been looking at pics of the wall street thing, it’s code pink, anon fan boys, anarchist wannabes and the usual Kucinich clowns that show up at things for the left in NY. Earlier in the day when it first started there appeared to be almost a thousand or so in some of the pics, but it really thinned out in the PM.
well, OU is playing FSU
| 186 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:15:37pm |
re: #184 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Protests in America usually end up as nothing more than a public display of idiocy.
This is a prosperous interim.
| 187 |
Political Atheist Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:17:23pm |
re: #183 Thanos
I’d have a hard time showing up for that crowd. No matter what the issue.
| 188 |
sagehen Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:17:40pm |
re: #165 Obdicut
For me, all it took was hitting puberty. My parents did everything they could to keep all mentions of sex away from me. Taught me masturbation was a crime as was ever thinking of a girl naked. Crazy shit like that.
Effective in repressing my sexuality?
Nope. I found a lot of books that had sex scenes but were still literature. I got stuff from friends.
What did it actually do?
Made me pretty ignorant about sex and sexuality, so when I got to college I was pretty unprepared and had a lot more unsafe sex than I should have.
My parents told me “sex is really dangerous — if you have sex, I’ll break both your legs.”
I believed them.
But they still wanted me to know all the real information, “for when you’re older. Like 30. Or maybe 35.”
| 189 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:20:34pm |
re: #187 Rightwingconspirator
I’d have a hard time showing up for that crowd. No matter what the issue.
I don’t mind crowds…music gigs, amusement parks etc…but I shun groups, clubs, churches, AA and any other gathering of like minded bots
| 190 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:21:42pm |
if there was ever a riot and ensuing persecution of Eagles fans, I’d probably be in the front ranks tho
| 191 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:23:30pm |
re: #188 sagehen
My parents told me “sex is really dangerous — if you have sex, I’ll break both your legs.”
I believed them.
But they still wanted me to know all the real information, “for when you’re older. Like 30. Or maybe 35.”
I got the speech, plus every time I went out, I got “Don’t catch anything you can’t throw back.”
192 |
Wozza Matter? Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:26:05pm |
GRRRRRRRR
Spent ages mocking up a website for my club……….get round to the colour testing and it was completely out of whack on other machines from what i was seeing on my laptop.
GRRRRRR.
Been to some websites with test images and getting no probs. aieeee.
| 193 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:26:15pm |
| 194 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:26:31pm |
re: #191 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I got the speech, plus every time I went out, I got “Don’t catch anything you can’t throw back.”
Got all my sex ed from nuns, friars, and a cousin’s 1950s manual. The theoretical demands are not as great as might be supposed.
| 196 |
Wozza Matter? Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:28:01pm |
re: #194 Decatur Deb
Got all my sex ed from nuns, friars, and a cousin’s 1950s manual. The theoretical demands are not as great as might be supposed.
Insert tab A into slot B…………
| 197 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:28:27pm |
| 198 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:28:54pm |
re: #194 Decatur Deb
Got all my sex ed from nuns, friars, and a cousin’s 1950s manual. The theoretical demands are not as great as might be supposed.
Both my parents worked for the school district I grew up in. They saw all the crap before I ever got around to it and headed me off most of the time.
I can be quite inventive at times.
| 199 |
AlexRogan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:34:58pm |
| 200 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:36:39pm |
| 201 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:39:32pm |
re: #183 Thanos
I’ve been looking at pics of the wall street thing, it’s code pink, anon fan boys, anarchist wannabes and the usual Kucinich clowns that show up at things for the left in NY. Earlier in the day when it first started there appeared to be almost a thousand or so in some of the pics, but it really thinned out in the PM.
No surprise. It’s New York City after all, and even those sorts of loony leftist have gotten the message that actually making problems would only result their asses getting kicked by the NYPD. Protests tend to be boring when they are supervised by a police force that respects legitimate speech and protest, but will come down hard on any violence or trouble making.
| 202 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:40:12pm |
| 203 |
Randall Gross Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:46:29pm |
re: #201 Dark_Falcon
What’s sad(or good) is at this point in time and space there is real popular animus against W. street and some righteousness in demonstrating. Even the hard right gets that, (e.g. Bachmann calling out “Crony Capitalism” etc.) If someone does manage to really put a saddle on the people’s ire it could go real bad real fast. That’s why even though I don’t think Perry has a snowball’s chance I am still keeping an eye on him….
| 204 |
AlexRogan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:48:37pm |
re: #200 albusteve
did you fold or mutilate?
Well, that’s between me and my doctor, though I will say that power tools were necessary to clean up the carnage.
| 205 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:49:08pm |
re: #203 Thanos
What’s sad(or good) is at this point in time and space there is real popular animus against W. street and some righteousness in demonstrating. Even the hard right gets that, (e.g. Bachmann calling out “Crony Capitalism” etc.) If someone does manage to really put a saddle on the people’s ire it could go real bad real fast. That’s why even though I don’t think Perry has a snowball’s chance I am still keeping an eye on him…
Animus, yes, but I don’t think it goes anywhere. People may be mad at Wall Street but they know they need it so they’re stuck with it. So their anger will be mostly sound and fury signifying nothing.
| 206 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:50:14pm |
Beatles
one of their many Motown covers/tributes
Postman
Youtube Video
207 |
Four More Tears Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:50:22pm |
re: #205 Dark_Falcon
Animus, yes, but I don’t think it goes anywhere. People may be mad at Wall Street but they know they need it so they’re stuck with it. So their anger will be mostly sound and fury signifying nothing.
Heh. “Suck it, Main Street!”
| 208 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:50:51pm |
re: #205 Dark_Falcon
Animus, yes, but I don’t think it goes anywhere. People may be mad at Wall Street but they know they need it so they’re stuck with it. So their anger will be mostly sound and fury signifying nothing.
Would you like to go through a 1930s Depression with a 1990s population?
| 209 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:53:05pm |
re: #205 Dark_Falcon
Animus, yes, but I don’t think it goes anywhere. People may be mad at Wall Street but they know they need it so they’re stuck with it. So their anger will be mostly sound and fury signifying nothing.
not me…I liquidated last year
no more for me, not that WS doesn’t effect every last heartbeat we use…as for the stock market, fuck that
| 210 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:54:00pm |
| 211 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Sep 17, 2011 7:58:10pm |
re: #210 Dark_Falcon
Huh?
The Americans who weathered and tolerated the Depression are gone. Our coming-of-age group is vastly different—much larger, city-based, heavily armed, entertainment-dependent, and with severe fractures of group identity. We are not qualified to tough-out hunger for ten years.
| 212 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:00:11pm |
re: #211 Decatur Deb
The Americans who weathered and tolerated the Depression are gone. Our coming-of-age group is vastly different—much larger, city-based, heavily armed, entertainment-dependent, and with sever fractures of group identity. We are not qualified to tough out hunger for ten years.
Honestly, the Post WWII generations would simply die in job lots in those sorts of conditions. But why ask the question? I don’t see a depression that bad as likely.
| 213 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:00:56pm |
re: #211 Decatur Deb
The Americans who weathered and tolerated the Depression are gone. Our coming-of-age group is vastly different—much larger, city-based, heavily armed, entertainment-dependent, and with severe fractures of group identity. We are not qualified to tough-out hunger for ten years.
flash mobs of 10k plus…chew on that
| 214 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:01:17pm |
re: #212 Dark_Falcon
Honestly, the Post WWII generations would simply die in job lots in those sorts of conditions. But why ask the question? I don’t see a depression that bad as likely.
We just dodged one, and the TPGOP is determined not to dodge another.
| 215 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:02:47pm |
re: #212 Dark_Falcon
Honestly, the Post WWII generations would simply die in job lots in those sorts of conditions. But why ask the question? I don’t see a depression that bad as likely.
Americans are had as passive now as they were then….we are sitting on a powder keg while the feds are living large
| 216 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:04:52pm |
re: #214 Decatur Deb
We just dodged one, and the TPGOP is determined not to dodge another.
I don’t agree with that statement at all. We bottomed out for a time, but we still don’t recover due to continued uncertainties. The Republican party is trying to remove those uncertainties by getting spending under control, and making regulations clearer and less onerous.
| 217 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:06:09pm |
re: #216 Dark_Falcon
I don’t agree with that statement at all. We bottomed out for a time, but we still don’t recover due to continued uncertainties. The Republican party is trying to remove those uncertainties by getting spending under control, and making regulations clearer and less onerous.
gag
| 218 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:07:29pm |
re: #216 Dark_Falcon
I don’t agree with that statement at all. We bottomed out for a time, but we still don’t recover due to continued uncertainties. The Republican party is trying to remove those uncertainties by getting spending under control, and making regulations clearer and less onerous.
Like the uncertainty of default?
| 219 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:07:57pm |
barnburner down in Fla with the Sooners…Hoops must be having fun…hell of a game
| 220 |
Pavlovian Hive Mind Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:08:27pm |
re: #216 Dark_Falcon
I don’t agree with that statement at all. We bottomed out for a time, but we still don’t recover due to continued uncertainties. The Republican party is trying to remove those uncertainties by getting spending under control, and making regulations clearer and less onerous.
What about the uncertainties that the GOP created by saying defaulting on our debt is no big deal?
| 222 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:09:39pm |
re: #216 Dark_Falcon
I don’t agree with that statement at all. We bottomed out for a time, but we still don’t recover due to continued uncertainties. The Republican party is trying to remove those uncertainties by getting spending under control, and making regulations clearer and less onerous.
Presidents Bush and Obama and their congresses saved us from soup kitchens with TARP and the stimulus spending (however clumsy and panic-driven that was). There will not be a repeat.
| 223 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:09:48pm |
re: #220 Varek Raith
What about the uncertainties that the GOP created by saying defaulting on our debt is no big deal?
politics…they were never going to allow a default
buncha hype
| 224 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:12:22pm |
re: #218 blueraven
Like the uncertainty of default?
There was hardly an alternative. As Obama’s recent moving of the budget goalposts with his “American Jobs Act” shows, he still does not take Republican concerns seriously. So we had to use something like the debt ceiling to force him to come to the table. And even that didn’t work for even a month. This bill of the president’s is just going to make things harder without actually doing anything (since it will not pass in its current form).
| 225 |
Renaissance_Man Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:12:24pm |
re: #216 Dark_Falcon
I don’t agree with that statement at all. We bottomed out for a time, but we still don’t recover due to continued uncertainties. The Republican party is trying to remove those uncertainties by getting spending under control, and making regulations clearer and less onerous.
Uncertainties? Really?
Do you really believe that the reason the economy is not recovering and roaring into life is that people are ‘uncertain’? And by people, I mean large corporations? Do you believe that somehow, if the US would just make the ‘tough decisions’ and cast its poor adrift by cutting health care, Social Security, and any promised benefits such as those given to teachers and any unemployment benefits, that corporations will breathe a sigh of relief, release their money into the economy, and suddenly hire everyone? Do you have even the slightest bit of evidence to suggest that this is true?
And no, Paul Ryan saying so doesn’t count.
| 226 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:13:26pm |
| 227 |
Pavlovian Hive Mind Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:15:08pm |
There is no certainty in life.
Ever.
| 228 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:15:29pm |
re: #225 Renaissance_Man
Uncertainties? Really?
Do you really believe that the reason the economy is not recovering and roaring into life is that people are ‘uncertain’? And by people, I mean large corporations? Do you believe that somehow, if the US would just make the ‘tough decisions’ and cast its poor adrift by cutting health care, Social Security, and any promised benefits such as those given to teachers and any unemployment benefits, that corporations will breathe a sigh of relief, release their money into the economy, and suddenly hire everyone? Do you have even the slightest bit of evidence to suggest that this is true?
And no, Paul Ryan saying so doesn’t count.
it’s not the large corporations that are the concern, it’s small business and yes they are very uncertain…BO’s go big, bail out unions and green jobs gig has been a monumental bust
| 229 |
Four More Tears Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:15:39pm |
re: #224 Dark_Falcon
Republicans don’t take the ideas they themselves have proposed seriously…
| 230 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:15:56pm |
re: #223 albusteve
politics…they were never going to allow a default
buncha hype
That’s the great big, dumb, clumsy Feds—they could have done it accidentally.
| 231 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:16:07pm |
re: #216 Dark_Falcon
I don’t agree with that statement at all. We bottomed out for a time, but we still don’t recover due to continued uncertainties. The Republican party is trying to remove those uncertainties by getting spending under control, and making regulations clearer and less onerous.
What’s the GOP gonna do to “get spending under control?” The military budget and tax increases are off the table. Cutting NEA and similar funding won’t make much of a dent. So what you’re left with are SS and Medicare. And cuts in those programs won’t be enough unless you’re willing to gut them long term, and begin with massive cuts immediately. Which the GOP won’t do, since they’d like to win more elections.
Prediction: Pres. Perry won’t produce any more of a balanced budget than we have now. But the TP will forgive him because they’ll be back in power, and because Perry’s a real American. This is largely culture war shit, not a national debate over economics, which few partisans on either side really understand anyway. See Breitbart for an illustration.
| 232 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:18:00pm |
re: #227 Varek Raith
There is no certainty in life.
Ever.
Sure there is.
You’re gonna die.
Now we just need to build off of that.
| 233 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:18:18pm |
re: #224 Dark_Falcon
There was hardly an alternative. As Obama’s recent moving of the budget goalposts with his “American Jobs Act” shows, he still does not take Republican concerns seriously. So we had to use something like the debt ceiling to force him to come to the table. And even that didn’t work for even a month. This bill of the president’s is just going to make things harder without actually doing anything (since it will not pass in its current form).
Moving the goalposts? Are you kidding or not paying attention?
Lets see, the no raise taxes ever party, is ready and willing to raise taxes on the middle class.
| 234 |
Pavlovian Hive Mind Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:19:14pm |
re: #232 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Sure there is.
You’re gonna die.
Now we just need to build off of that.
Speak for yourself, mortal.
:P
235 |
Interesting Times Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:19:47pm |
re: #216 Dark_Falcon
I don’t agree with that statement at all. We bottomed out for a time, but we still don’t recover due to continued
uncertaintiesobstruction by the GOP and their Blue Dog Dem enablers. The Republican party is trying to removethose uncertaintiesthings the Koch brothers don’t like bygetting spending under controlspending more on approved corporate welfare and less on programs for everyone else, andmakinggutting regulations that protect Americans from environmental destruction and abusive finance industry practices.clearer and less onerous
Fixed.
| 236 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:20:01pm |
re: #231 palomino
What’s the GOP gonna do to “get spending under control?” The military budget and tax increases are off the table. Cutting NEA and similar funding won’t make much of a dent. So what you’re left with are SS and Medicare. And cuts in those programs won’t be enough unless you’re willing to gut them long term, and begin with massive cuts immediately. Which the GOP won’t do, since they’d like to win more elections.
Prediction: Pres. Perry won’t produce any more of a balanced budget than we have now. But the TP will forgive him because they’ll be back in power, and because Perry’s a real American. This is largely culture war shit, not a national debate over economics, which few partisans on either side really understand anyway. See Breitbart for an illustration.
of govt waste could be magically illustrated, you’d die of a heart attack…scores of billions and more every year…the feds could’t manage a car wash…the pig feeds itself
| 237 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:20:46pm |
re: #234 Varek Raith
Speak for yourself, mortal.
:P
You’re a Sith, so that means what, 20 years at best before your empire falls apart?
| 238 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:21:41pm |
re: #228 albusteve
it’s not the large corporations that are the concern, it’s small business and yes they are very uncertain…BO’s go big, bail out unions and green jobs gig has been a monumental bust
And that’s why Obama proposed many tax break for…small business.
| 239 |
Pavlovian Hive Mind Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:21:56pm |
re: #237 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
You’re a Sith, so that means what, 20 years at best before your empire falls apart?
I have a nice, secret paradise world to retire to.
I ain’t dumb enough to stick around fighting a lost cause.
| 240 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:22:35pm |
re: #233 blueraven
Moving the goalposts? Are you kidding or not paying attention?
Lets see, the no raise taxes ever party, is ready and willing to raise taxes on the middle class.
Republicans agreed on budget targets for 2012 and agreed with the Democrats to set up a committee to meet them. Before that committee has made any progress, Obama came out with a plan that would require another $400 billion dollars. That is ‘moving the goalposts’. The numbers are set for 2012, and Obama should abide by them,
| 241 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:23:22pm |
Hoops will show up in his chaps and spurs to tell us how awesome OU is…they just womped Fla State
| 242 |
Kragar Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:24:14pm |
re: #239 Varek Raith
I have a nice, secret paradise world to retire to.
I ain’t dumb enough to stick around fighting a lost cause.
Unfortunately, it has muppets your troops never detected and your superior technology is no match for their puny weapons.
| 243 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:24:53pm |
re: #238 blueraven
And that’s why Obama proposed many tax break for…small business.
he should have done this two years ago…a step at a time and feel things out, but he went for all in and blew it
| 244 |
Renaissance_Man Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:25:08pm |
re: #224 Dark_Falcon
There was hardly an alternative. As Obama’s recent moving of the budget goalposts with his “American Jobs Act” shows, he still does not take Republican concerns seriously. So we had to use something like the debt ceiling to force him to come to the table. And even that didn’t work for even a month. This bill of the president’s is just going to make things harder without actually doing anything (since it will not pass in its current form).
So, holding the world’s economy hostage was something Obama ‘forced’ upon Republicans? Because he just wouldn’t take their concerns seriously?
DF, nobody takes Republican concerns seriously. That’s because Republicans don’t have serious concerns. That sounds like a broad brush partisan statement, but honestly, name a serious one.
Seriously concerned about the deficit? No, not really. Because if they were, they would want to do something that might actually fix it, like trimming military expenditure, and most importantly, raising a few taxes.
Seriously concerned about taxes? No, no really. Because if they were, they wouldn’t be so eager to increase taxes on the middle and lower classes, just because Obama doesn’t want to.
What are their serious concerns? Creeping sharia law? Osama bin Laden? Violent leftist union thugs fomenting civil war? HPV vaccinations?
Come on, let us know. What are their serious concerns? What should we, and the rest of the world, take seriously?
| 245 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:25:10pm |
re: #240 Dark_Falcon
Republicans agreed on budget targets for 2012 and agreed with the Democrats to set up a committee to meet them. Before that committee has made any progress, Obama came out with a plan that would require another $400 billion dollars. That is ‘moving the goalposts’. The numbers are set for 2012, and Obama should abide by them,
What are the republicans doing about JOBS?
| 246 |
compound idaho Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:25:16pm |
re: #236 albusteve
of govt waste could be magically illustrated, you’d die of a heart attack…scores of billions and more every year…the feds could’t manage a car wash…the pig feeds itself
A reasonable fraction, maybe 30%, of my business is government contracting. If people only knew what was going on. Most of it is not evil. Everyone is Most are trying to do the right thing. It is incompetence and being forced to under the most bizarre truly wasteful rules.
| 247 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:25:25pm |
re: #241 albusteve
Hoops will show up in his chaps and spurs to tell us how awesome OU is…they just womped Fla State
If Hoops is going from ‘Hoosier’ to ‘Sooner’, he’s not making much headway in the state nic department.
| 248 |
Four More Tears Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:25:39pm |
re: #240 Dark_Falcon
Republicans agreed on budget targets for 2012 and agreed with the Democrats to set up a committee to meet them. Before that committee has made any progress, Obama came out with a plan that would require another $400 billion dollars. That is ‘moving the goalposts’. The numbers are set for 2012, and Obama should abide by them,
Ah. So then he can do nothing about that pesky little jobs problem and the right can them smack him around on that. A cunning plan.
| 249 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:26:17pm |
Shouldn’t have come into this so late—‘Nite, all.
| 250 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:26:39pm |
re: #245 blueraven
What are the republicans doing about JOBS?
the same thing that the donks are doing….nothing
| 251 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:27:24pm |
re: #236 albusteve
of govt waste could be magically illustrated, you’d die of a heart attack…scores of billions and more every year…the feds could’t manage a car wash…the pig feeds itself
so then i guess you’re not too hopeful about balancing the budget.
i’m sure the gop will find a way to spin a perry trillion-plus deficit as NOT “mortgaging our grandchildren’s future”, even though it’s the exact same bs
| 252 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:27:39pm |
re: #247 Decatur Deb
If Hoops is going from ‘Hoosier’ to ‘Sooner’, he’s not making much headway in the state nic department.
he has divided loyalties….he roots for everybody
| 253 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:28:29pm |
re: #238 blueraven
And that’s why Obama proposed many tax break for…small business.
And he plans to tax other businesses to give those credits. That’s called “redistribution” and I’m against it.
| 254 |
Four More Tears Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:29:20pm |
re: #253 Dark_Falcon
And he plans to tax other businesses to give those credits. That’s called “redistribution” and I’m against it.
Are you against getting rid of subsidies for oil companies? Are you against getting rid of the private jet exemption?
| 255 |
BongCrodny Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:29:49pm |
re: #244 Renaissance_Man
Come on, let us know. What are their serious concerns? What should we, and the rest of the world, take seriously?
Abortion, abortion and abortion, to name three.
| 256 |
compound idaho Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:30:44pm |
re: #253 Dark_Falcon
And he plans to tax other businesses to give those credits. That’s called “redistribution” and I’m against it.
Low tax rate. Simple tax code. Quit requiring me to go to government mandated classes where I know more than the instructor.
| 257 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:30:51pm |
re: #251 palomino
so then i guess you’re not too hopeful about balancing the budget.
i’m sure the gop will find a way to spin a perry trillion-plus deficit as NOT “mortgaging our grandchildren’s future”, even though it’s the exact same bs
the budget will never be balanced…but you can reasonably fake it on paper…I don’t have much gusto for the feds…anybody that trusts them implicitly is a fool
| 258 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:31:10pm |
re: #250 albusteve
the same thing that the donks are doing…nothing
I disagree…the republicans are doing plenty. Like laying off teachers and policemen and other government workers so that big corporations can have more tax breaks to add to their profits. Profits that they are sitting on. That’s a swell plan!
| 259 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:32:38pm |
re: #258 blueraven
I disagree…the republicans are doing plenty. Like laying off teachers and policemen and other government workers so that big corporations can have more tax breaks to add to their profits. Profits that they are sitting on. That’s a swell plan!
I was not aware the GOP was laying off teachers…why are they doing that?
| 260 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:33:08pm |
| 261 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:33:43pm |
re: #258 blueraven
I disagree…the republicans are doing plenty. Like laying off teachers and policemen and other government workers so that big corporations can have more tax breaks to add to their profits. Profits that they are sitting on. That’s a swell plan!
You don’t understand. The job-creators aren’t sitting on those profits because they’re greedy, it’s just because of the economic uncertainty caused by having a Marxist president.
| 262 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:33:54pm |
re: #257 albusteve
the budget will never be balanced…but you can reasonably fake it on paper…I don’t have much gusto for the feds…anybody that trusts them implicitly is a fool
haven’t you heard? if we don’t balance the budget soon, our grandchildren will all be slaves. that’s the current state of thinking on the right…we’ll see if it holds when they get back in power
| 263 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:34:17pm |
re: #260 jaunte
Some 3,000 Millionaires Claim Jobless Benefits, IRS Data Show
suck it dry…the End is near
partay
| 264 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:34:35pm |
re: #259 albusteve
I was not aware the GOP was laying off teachers…why are they doing that?
because it’s one way to help get rid of a state budget shortfall
| 265 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:34:50pm |
re: #248 JasonA
Ah. So then he can do nothing about that pesky little jobs problem and the right can them smack him around on that. A cunning plan.
Things can be done. But if he wants things that cost money, he can propose additional non-defense budget cuts. Otherwise I must assume he did not negotiate in good faith with Republicans back in July/August.
| 266 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:35:42pm |
re: #256 compound idaho
Low tax rate. Simple tax code. Quit requiring me to go to government mandated classes where I know more than the instructor.
I’m fine with that. I’ve always supported that.
| 267 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:36:06pm |
re: #262 palomino
haven’t you heard? if we don’t balance the budget soon, our grandchildren will all be slaves. that’s the current state of thinking on the right…we’ll see if it holds when they get back in power
what comes after slavery?…total annihilation?
wow….could get interesting, yes?
| 268 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:36:34pm |
re: #262 palomino
haven’t you heard? if we don’t balance the budget soon, our grandchildren will all be slaves. that’s the current state of thinking on the right…we’ll see if it holds when they get back in power
Debt enslaves, believe that.
| 269 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:37:10pm |
re: #259 albusteve
I was not aware the GOP was laying off teachers…why are they doing that?
Because they have to balance their state budgets and at the same time lower the corporate rate. Teachers are expendable.
100s of thousands of them.
| 270 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:37:47pm |
re: #264 palomino
because it’s one way to help get rid of a state budget shortfall
oh that…how did that come about?
| 271 |
Four More Tears Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:38:19pm |
re: #268 Dark_Falcon
Debt enslaves, believe that.
Gee, if debt’s really that bad then maybe we should have actually paid for that war we never really needed.
| 272 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:39:04pm |
re: #268 Dark_Falcon
Debt enslaves, believe that.
Where was that rhetoric from the right from 2000-2008? Was that debt not enslaving?
Fact is, the whole slavery meme didn’t arise until Obama got into office and people were fed the lie that Obama created debt to enslave the future generation of good hard working white folks.
| 273 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:40:26pm |
re: #267 albusteve
what comes after slavery?…total annihilation?
wow…could get interesting, yes?
Breitbart’s already calling for armed civil war. Maybe the total annihilation will come sooner than you think.
274 |
ProTARDISLiberal Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:40:47pm |
Squee! We won!
Of course, I offended someone at the watch party we had. I was having a private conversation with someone about somethings in the US politically. She said I was offending Republicans.
Next time, I see her, I’ll give her an idea why I don’t particularly car. Where were these fragile-hearted people when I was bashed in High School, with no friends? Where were they when those goons obstructed my way to (or from) class, where were they when those same bastards prevented me from getting lunch one day?
Where were they last year when I was called a NAZI in the Union? I could give a damn about a Republican’s feelings, unless they are of a select group.
| 275 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:40:59pm |
re: #269 blueraven
Because they have top balance their state budgets and at the same time lover the corporate rate. Teachers are expendable.
100s of thousands of them.
Assuming that you are referring to Wisconsin, the idea is to correct structural problems in the budget. Lower personnel costs and attract increased investments from tax-paying businesses. The idea is that a slimmed down government with a larger tax base will not experience the current source of budget crisis in the foreseeable future.
| 276 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:41:42pm |
re: #269 blueraven
Because they have top balance their state budgets and at the same time lover the corporate rate. Teachers are expendable.
100s of thousands of them.
right…they never bust the fat cats because THEY are the fatcats…everyone else gets used…even their union pals
| 277 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:42:39pm |
re: #272 palomino
Where was that rhetoric from the right from 2000-2008? Was that debt not enslaving?
Fact is, the whole slavery meme didn’t arise until Obama got into office and people were fed the lie that Obama created debt to enslave the future generation of good hard working white folks.
This guy sees the plot.
| 278 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:43:11pm |
re: #273 palomino
Breitbart’s already calling for armed civil war. Maybe the total annihilation will come sooner than you think.
yeah, we all had a good laugh about that earlier…I’m not too worried
| 279 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:43:25pm |
| 280 |
ProTARDISLiberal Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:43:39pm |
re: #275 Dark_Falcon
Meanwhile, no teachers will go to teach there because of shaky benefits and no protections.
You kinda have to provide incentive to have teachers. Right now, Republicans are getting rid of them.
| 281 |
Renaissance_Man Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:44:15pm |
re: #275 Dark_Falcon
Assuming that you are referring to Wisconsin, the idea is to correct structural problems in the budget. Lower personnel costs and attract increased investments from tax-paying businesses. The idea is that a slimmed down government with a larger tax base will not experience the current source of budget crisis in the foreseeable future.
Yeah, because that’s always the idea. Lower taxes, and the tax base will get larger, and we won’t have budget crises.
That’s the fantasy that the entirety of right wing economic policy is based on. And for thirty years, we’ve had lower, and lower, and lower taxes. And yet we have budget crises. And yet we have more debt. And yet, despite the fact that it hasn’t worked yet, people like you continue to insist that it will. One day. If we just make the ‘tough decisions’. It really will.
Still waiting for something that we should take seriously.
| 282 |
Pavlovian Hive Mind Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:45:22pm |
re: #281 Renaissance_Man
Yeah, because that’s always the idea. Lower taxes, and the tax base will get larger, and we won’t have budget crises.
That’s the fantasy that the entirety of right wing economic policy is based on. And for thirty years, we’ve had lower, and lower, and lower taxes. And yet we have budget crises. And yet we have more debt. And yet, despite the fact that it hasn’t worked yet, people like you continue to insist that it will. One day. If we just make the ‘tough decisions’. It really will.
Still waiting for something that we should take seriously.
The definition of insanity.
| 283 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:45:27pm |
re: #278 albusteve
yeah, we all had a good laugh about that earlier…I’m not too worried
but i live in CA…we may have more liberals, but the conservatives here are better shots and more fully loaded. if breitbart tells me to be scared, then i’m sure i should be
| 284 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:45:31pm |
re: #279 palomino
your guess is as good as mine
look at union pensions in donk states…then extrapolate
money means votes
| 285 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:45:32pm |
re: #280 ProLifeLiberal
Meanwhile, no teachers will go to teach there because of shaky benefits and no protections.
You kinda have to provide incentive to have teachers. Right now, Republicans are getting rid of them.
Creationism, climate change denial, and other forms of magical thinking will save our education system, not godless, liberal union thugs.
| 286 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:45:54pm |
re: #274 ProLifeLiberal
Squee! We won!
Of course, I offended someone at the watch party we had. I was having a private conversation with someone about somethings in the US politically. She said I was offending Republicans.
Next time, I see her, I’ll give her an idea why I don’t particularly car. Where were these fragile-hearted people when I was bashed in High School, with no friends? Where were they when those goons obstructed my way to (or from) class, where were they when those same bastards prevented me from getting lunch one day?
Where were they last year when I was called a NAZI in the Union? I could give a damn about a Republican’s feelings, unless they are of a select group.
I understand how you feel. I’m sorry it happened to you, but I’m going to give you some advice: You need to find a way to move past that pain. Most Republicans aren’t that sort of asshole, and what happened to you was less about politics and more about teenagers victimizing the “odd guy out”. See those assholes for who they are, and reserve your scorn for them. But do follow through with your plan to tell the lady what they put you through, because then she may understand you better and know why you said what you said.
| 287 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:46:39pm |
re: #275 Dark_Falcon
Assuming that you are referring to Wisconsin, the idea is to correct structural problems in the budget. Lower personnel costs and attract increased investments from tax-paying businesses. The idea is that a slimmed down government with a larger tax base will not experience the current source of budget crisis in the foreseeable future.
Wisconsin, Texas, Ohio…you name it. So what was structurally wrong with TX budget? We have no state income tax, a republican Governor and legislature (for decades I might add) We are a right to work state with Big Oil. I believe Romney referred to that as 4 Aces.
Yet we still had a 25 billion dollar deficit. So…massive teacher layoff and health services cuts.
| 288 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:47:25pm |
re: #283 palomino
but i live in CA…we may have more liberals, but the conservatives here are better shots and more fully loaded. if breitbart tells me to be scared, then i’m sure i should be
hang on til the next commercial break….you’ll survive
| 289 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:48:15pm |
re: #284 albusteve
look at union pensions in donk states…then extrapolate
money means votes
i know, donk states vs. goper states…but many states on each side had huge deficits, so the issue of the drivers thereof is much more complex
| 290 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:48:59pm |
re: #287 blueraven
I think the global workforce doubling over the last 20 years (Russia, China, India, opening to the world) had a lot to do with it.
| 291 |
Renaissance_Man Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:49:04pm |
re: #287 blueraven
Wisconsin, Texas, Ohio…you name it. So what was structurally wrong with TX budget? We have no state income tax, a republican Governor and legislature (for decades I might add) We are a right to work state with Big Oil. I believe Romney referred to that as 4 Aces.
Yet we still had a 25 billion dollar deficit. So…massive teacher layoff and health services cuts.
Because liberals, that’s why.
Because Republicans concerns not taken seriously, that’s why.
Because teachers unions parasites, that’s why.
| 292 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:50:36pm |
re: #288 albusteve
hang on til the next commercial break…you’ll survive
i don’t watch commercials…i’m either gonna die immediately or live forever…i guess we’ll find out soon enough
| 293 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:52:02pm |
Seriously does anyone here think Perry and the gop can balance the budget, and if so how will they do it?
| 294 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:53:32pm |
re: #293 palomino
Seriously does anyone here think Perry and the gop can balance the budget, and if so how will they do it?
May I point out that our only balanced budgets EVER were both under Democratic presidents?
| 295 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:53:49pm |
re: #289 palomino
i know, donk states vs. goper states…but many states on each side had huge deficits, so the issue of the drivers thereof is much more complex
earlier, some states had the initial big problems…returns on investments were not footing the bill…CA, Jersey, Illinois…the deals were toxic to the states and the numbers were unreasonable…10 years on the fire dept and cop 100k year…that sort of stuff…but as the markets continue to fail, the same problem has spread and now even reasonable pensions are getting clobbered…what were these states thinking?…to me it’s as irresponsible as top heavy corporate salaries
| 297 |
ProTARDISLiberal Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:55:06pm |
re: #286 Dark_Falcon
Maybe. However, I got a different lesson.
That there is a Culture War, and my side must win.
I should note that my anger has decreased in the past 48 hours as a result of what happened with the Danish Election. I’m back to pre-7/22 levels.
| 298 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:55:39pm |
299 |
goddamnedfrank Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:55:49pm |
re: #275 Dark_Falcon
Assuming that you are referring to Wisconsin, the idea is to correct structural problems in the budget. Lower personnel costs and attract increased investments from tax-paying businesses. The idea is that a slimmed down government with a larger tax base will not experience the current source of budget crisis in the foreseeable future.
Then why is Wisconsin losing jobs?
In one month, Walker has cost Wisconsin 2,300 jobs, 800 of them from the private sector and unemployment rose this month to 7.9 percent.
| 300 |
Four More Tears Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:55:50pm |
re: #293 palomino
Seriously does anyone here think Perry and the gop can balance the budget, and if so how will they do it?
Make executions pay-per-view events?
| 301 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:56:48pm |
re: #295 albusteve
earlier, some states had the initial big problems…returns on investments were not footing the bill…CA, Jersey, Illinois…the deals were toxic to the states and the numbers were unreasonable…10 years on the fire dept and cop 100k year…that sort of stuff…but as the markets continue to fail, the same problem has spread and now even reasonable pensions are getting clobbered…what were these states thinking?…to me it’s as irresponsible as top heavy corporate salaries
sure, the overly generous pensions were one of the factors in many state deficits…but as has been pointed out, a lot of other states (with far less generous pensions) have huge deficits that are just as bad in terms of % of state GDP…so many factors involved it can’t be boiled down to one…it’s kinda like blaming whole housing crisis on fannie and freddie
302 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:57:23pm |
re: #298 Atlas Fails
‘Sup.
Got a babysitter and went out on a date with the wife to an expensive restaurant. The food was out of this world.
| 303 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:58:22pm |
re: #300 JasonA
Make executions pay-per-view events?
Back in the day of the guillotine, maybe. But now it’s just a guy on a table getting a needle stuck in his arm. About as exciting as a trip to the doctor’s office.
| 304 |
BongCrodny Sat, Sep 17, 2011 8:58:59pm |
re: #286 Dark_Falcon
Most Republicans aren’t that sort of asshole
What sort of asshole are they?
You should know I tried really, really hard not to post that comment.
Okay, maybe not *that* hard.
| 305 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:00:14pm |
re: #301 palomino
sure, the overly generous pensions were one of the factors in many state deficits…but as has been pointed out, a lot of other states (with far less generous pensions) have huge deficits that are just as bad in terms of % of state GDP…so many factors involved it can’t be boiled down to one…it’s kinda like blaming whole housing crisis on fannie and freddie
some states gambled heavily and lost…I’ve been bitching about this for years and now it’s all come to a head nationwide…it’s beyond politics imo and I resent parties that exploit this fucking mess for votes…that’s exactly how we came to this point to begin with…I hate the feds
| 306 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:00:21pm |
re: #303 palomino
Back in the day of the guillotine, maybe. But now it’s just a guy on a table getting a needle stuck in his arm. About as exciting as a trip to the doctor’s office.
Don’t a couple states still use electric chairs and firing squads? The audiences at the last two GOP debates would be frothing at their mouths for the chance to see either of those in action.
| 307 |
Four More Tears Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:00:28pm |
re: #303 palomino
Back in the day of the guillotine, maybe. But now it’s just a guy on a table getting a needle stuck in his arm. About as exciting as a trip to the doctor’s office.
The Reagan Library debate has convinced me that there’s a market for even that. Just imagine a heartbeat monitor running across the bottom of the screen, kind of like the meter CNN shows at the presidential debates. Tons of people ponying up money just to see it flatline.
| 308 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:00:34pm |
re: #299 goddamnedfrank
Ask the White House. We were promised a jobless rate below 8% a while back and it’s still over 9%. Where’s the fucking jobs?
| 309 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:01:03pm |
re: #294 Atlas Fails
May I point out that our only balanced budgets EVER were both under Democratic presidents?
Yeah, but taxes were raised as part of the deals that brought those about, so they don’t count. They’re irrevocably tainted by the evil of all taxation.
| 310 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:01:15pm |
re: #295 albusteve
earlier, some states had the initial big problems…returns on investments were not footing the bill…CA, Jersey, Illinois…the deals were toxic to the states and the numbers were unreasonable…10 years on the fire dept and cop 100k year…that sort of stuff…but as the markets continue to fail, the same problem has spread and now even reasonable pensions are getting clobbered…what were these states thinking?…to me it’s as irresponsible as top heavy corporate salaries
Exactly. That’s why Rahm Emmanuel, a fairly liberal Democrat, is pushing forward longer school days in Chicago. The teachers union is screaming, but Rahm’s not budging, and he shouldn’t. The teachers in Chicago having been failing badly for years. During those years, many ‘carrot’ methods have been used to try to improve things. They have not worked well enough, so now firmer measures are being used. To those of them who demand more pay, I say: “No. Having failed as badly as you have for years on end, you’re lucky to still be employed. So shut up and get on with the job.”
| 311 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:02:16pm |
re: #305 albusteve
some states gambled heavily and lost…I’ve been bitching about this for years and now it’s all come to a head nationwide…it’s beyond politics imo and I resent parties that exploit this fucking mess for votes…that’s exactly how we came to this point to begin with…I hate the feds
Seriously, though, how do you feel about the federal govt?
| 312 |
Four More Tears Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:02:20pm |
re: #308 NJDhockeyfan
Where’s the fucking jobs?
There’s a guy named Mike down in Brazil who might be able to help you out with that…
| 313 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:02:40pm |
re: #306 Atlas Fails
Don’t a couple states still use electric chairs and firing squads? The audience at the last two GOP debates would be frothing at their mouths for the chance to see either of those in action.
I think in some states the inmates gets to choose which way they get executed. I think someone recently chose the firing squad.
| 314 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:02:53pm |
Corporations can create the jobs, but they won’t hire, because the people without jobs can’t buy stuff.
| 315 |
Interesting Times Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:03:14pm |
re: #303 palomino
Back in the day of the guillotine, maybe. But now it’s just a guy on a table getting a needle stuck in his arm. About as exciting as a trip to the doctor’s office.
That’s easy enough to fix. Allow the audience to vote by phone or text on the execution method used.
| 316 |
Four More Tears Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:03:19pm |
re: #310 Dark_Falcon
To those of them who demand more pay, I say: “No. Having failed as badly as you have for years on end, you’re lucky to still be employed. So shut up and get on with the job.”
Wow.
| 317 |
prairiefire Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:03:30pm |
re: #303 palomino
Back in the day of the guillotine, maybe. But now it’s just a guy on a table getting a needle stuck in his arm. About as exciting as a trip to the doctor’s office.
There are small viewing rooms.
| 318 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:04:21pm |
re: #308 NJDhockeyfan
Ask the White House. We were promised a jobless rate below 8% a while back and it’s still over 9%. Where’s the fucking jobs?
*Sigh* This again?
| 319 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:05:27pm |
re: #306 Atlas Fails
Don’t a couple states still use electric chairs and firing squads? The audience at the last two GOP debates would be frothing at their mouths for the chance to see either of those in action.
Florida used “Ol’ Sparky” for a long time, but something went wrong a few years back—a guy’s head caught on fire and virtually exploded (or something like that), very Green Mile stuff.
I think a few states still have firing squads, probably western states.
Problem is, TX does like 80% of all the executions and they wussed out by going to lethal injection. Borrrring.
| 320 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:05:35pm |
re: #311 palomino
Seriously, though, how do you feel about the federal govt?
or any govt…show me the beef
I’m seriously anti bad govt…these dim wits are driving the boat
| 321 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:07:22pm |
re: #320 albusteve
or any govt…show me the beef
I’m seriously anti bad govt…these dim wits are driving the boat
Save a bit of your hatred for big business that is providing wind to the sail.
| 322 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:08:44pm |
re: #308 NJDhockeyfan
Ask the White House. We were promised a jobless rate below 8% a while back and it’s still over 9%. Where’s the fucking jobs?
This recession is even worse than most economists thought. Nobody in either party would be able to create lots of jobs now, unless we went on a New Deal type spending spree, and there’s no stomach for that in either party.
We may have to face the fact that this shitty economy is the new normal, and we may be stuck with it for quite a while regardless of which party’s in power. So many global forces involved, we can’t just shape economic reality any more.
| 323 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:09:11pm |
Holy shit!
Border Patrol finds rocket launcher, grenade launcher, explosives near Rio Grande
FRONTON — U. S. Border Patrol agents seized six assault rifles, one rocket launcher, a grenade launcher, and three packages of what appeared to be C-4 explosives Tuesday near the Rio Grande.
Agents patrolling the river near Fronton spotted a black bag in the brush. Inside, agents found the guns, rocket launcher, grenade launcher and explosives, along with a lower receiver for an assault rifle and 20 ammunition magazines.
The weapons were turned over to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives for further investigation.
I wonder what else did get through without being caught by the border agents?
| 324 |
Four More Tears Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:09:13pm |
re: #321 blueraven
Save a bit of your hatred for big business that is providing wind to the sail.
How dare you talk about the Job Creators like that!1!
| 325 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:09:51pm |
re: #313 NJDhockeyfan
I think in some states the inmates gets to choose which way they get executed. I think someone recently chose the firing squad.
I guess they wanted to go out with a bang.
| 326 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:10:43pm |
re: #322 palomino
This recession is even worse than most economists thought. Nobody in either party would be able to create lots of jobs now, unless we went on a New Deal type spending spree, and there’s no stomach for that in either party.
We may have to face the fact that this shitty economy is the new normal, and we may be stuck with it for quite a while regardless of which party’s in power. So many global forces involved, we can’t just shape economic reality any more.
for the 200th time…prepare for indefinite 9% unemployment…there was never any recovery and it’s gonna get worse
| 327 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:11:29pm |
re: #316 JasonA
Wow.
To clarify: I mean those Chicago teachers who are demanding more pay in exchange for a longer school day. And I meant what I said. Chicago schools have failed for too long, so this change is getting pushed. If the teachers were in the private sector, they’d have been fired long ago for their failures to get satisfactory results. So raises are appropriately out of the question. First the students show learning improvement, then they can ask for more money. I’d be willing to implement a merit pay system for that purpose, too.
| 328 |
ProTARDISLiberal Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:11:41pm |
I should also mention the person complaining about what I said ignored me when I ask for help last week before a meltdown.
Raising the question of: Why the hell would I listen to them in the first place?
| 329 |
BongCrodny Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:11:41pm |
re: #319 palomino
Problem is, TX does like 80% of all the executions and they wussed out by going to lethal injection. Borrring.
If I had to face the death penalty, I think I’d like to be blown up, like in a Monty Python or Muppets sketch.
“And now for something completely different…”
BOOM!
| 330 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:11:42pm |
re: #323 NJDhockeyfan
Holy shit!
Border Patrol finds rocket launcher, grenade launcher, explosives near Rio Grande
I wonder what else did get through without being caught by the border agents?
Drugs. Lots and lots of drugs.
| 331 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:11:56pm |
re: #326 albusteve
for the 200th time…prepare for indefinite 9% unemployment…there was never any recovery and it’s gonna get worse
(Expecting the usual ‘It’s George Bush’s Fault’ mem)
| 332 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:12:24pm |
re: #322 palomino
The only way up and out is to improve the educational system.
| 333 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:13:23pm |
re: #326 albusteve
for the 200th time…prepare for indefinite 9% unemployment…there was never any recovery and it’s gonna get worse
i hate the phrase “new normal”, it’s so cable newsy. but it’s probably accurate in this context.
| 334 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:13:31pm |
re: #332 jaunte
The only way up and out is to improve the educational system.
it’s dog eat dog over there…not likely in our lifetime
| 335 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:14:22pm |
re: #330 palomino
Drugs. Lots and lots of drugs.
I’m not worried about the drugs. Rocket launchers, grenade launchers, C-4, are you shitting me? What other weapons made it to their destination?
| 336 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:14:34pm |
re: #329 BongCrodny
If I had to face the death penalty, I think I’d like to be blown up, like in a Monty Python or Muppets sketch.
“And now for something completely different…”
BOOM!
it would kill you really fast, not too much pain involved. and you’d be cremated in the process, so no need for a funeral home. a win-win money saver.
| 337 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:15:37pm |
re: #331 NJDhockeyfan
(Expecting the usual ‘It’s George Bush’s Fault’ mem)
Is it a meme that he started an expensive war of choice in Iraq and refused to pay for it?
| 338 |
Four More Tears Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:15:42pm |
re: #327 Dark_Falcon
To clarify: I mean those Chicago teachers who are demanding more pay in exchange for a longer school day. And I meant what I said. Chicago schools have failed for too long, so this change is getting pushed. If the teachers were in the private sector, they’d have been fired long ago for their failures to get satisfactory results. So raises are appropriately out of the question. First the students show learning improvement, then they can ask for more money. I’d be willing to implement a merit pay system for that purpose, too.
Longer school day. So they have to work more hours. For no more pay.
After that debt comment earlier I’m not so sure that slavery means what you think it means…
| 339 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:16:41pm |
re: #337 wlewisiii
Is it a meme that he started an expensive war of choice in Iraq and refused to pay for it?
shhh…you are not supposed to mention that, or the tax cuts the genius handed out at the same time.
| 340 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:17:35pm |
re: #331 NJDhockeyfan
(Expecting the usual ‘It’s George Bush’s Fault’ mem)
what does that have to do with anything? people with any objectivity know that both parties contributed to the mess.
as for blaming presidents, almost every president since Hoover has been blamed for many things, often for decades after they left office
| 341 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:17:55pm |
re: #327 Dark_Falcon
To clarify: I mean those Chicago teachers who are demanding more pay in exchange for a longer school day. And I meant what I said. Chicago schools have failed for too long, so this change is getting pushed. If the teachers were in the private sector, they’d have been fired long ago for their failures to get satisfactory results. So raises are appropriately out of the question. First the students show learning improvement, then they can ask for more money. I’d be willing to implement a merit pay system for that purpose, too.
Judging teachers solely on test scores is sketchy, though. First off, public schools have to take all students, even (especially) those with no desire to learn. If a kid’s totally unmotivated, he’s not going to pay attention in class or score well, no matter who his teacher is. This is amplified in inner city schools, where many students have given up on going to college before they even hit middle school. The reason China doesn’t have to deal with this problem is because they only allow their best and brightest to get full educations, while the rest learn “trade skills” (i.e. making all the junk that gets shipped over hear for pennies an hour).
Personally, I think the teachers’ request for more pay IF they were assigned more hours was perfectly reasonable.
| 342 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:17:56pm |
re: #333 palomino
i hate the phrase “new normal”, it’s so cable newsy. but it’s probably accurate in this context.
I’m tripped out over this thing…it’s all man made, business and govt fucking each other while the rest of us watch…both parties, over decades…it’s cost me trillions…BO is just another small player…maybe intermediate
| 343 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:18:02pm |
re: #328 ProLifeLiberal
I should also mention the person complaining about what I said ignored me when I ask for help last week before a meltdown.
Raising the question of: Why the hell would I listen to them in the first place?
You shouldn’t. That person is simply clueless. Try to inform her, but if she doesn’t listen write her off.
| 344 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:18:24pm |
re: #337 wlewisiii
Is it a meme that he started an expensive war of choice in Iraq and refused to pay for it?
Blah blah blah….same shit, different day. George Bush left the WH 2 1/2 years ago. When does buck stop with the current president?
| 345 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:19:25pm |
re: #340 palomino
what does that have to do with anything? people with any objectivity know that both parties contributed to the mess.
as for blaming presidents, almost every president since Hoover has been blamed for many things, often for decades after they left office
It’s just a pre-emptive strike tactic. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
| 346 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:19:26pm |
re: #344 NJDhockeyfan
Well, it is true that a lot of the money was spent before Obama got in.
| 347 |
BongCrodny Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:20:43pm |
Here’s a Deseret News article from this year:
U.S. teachers ‘most productive,’ work longest hours, yet students’ scores average
You know what? Maybe we’re just a dumb country.
| 348 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:20:56pm |
re: #344 NJDhockeyfan
Blah blah blah…same shit, different day. George Bush left the WH 2 1/2 years ago. When does buck stop with the current president?
Maybe when Republicans stop blaming him for the national deficit he didn’t create.
| 349 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:21:13pm |
re: #335 NJDhockeyfan
I’m not worried about the drugs. Rocket launchers, grenade launchers, C-4, are you shitting me? What other weapons made it to their destination?
Maybe it’s terrorists. Or maybe it’s the cartels, who are armed better than most terrorists. We’ll finally have to get involved in northern Mexico IF the cartel violence spills across the border a lot more than it already has. So far the cartels have been smart enough to keep the violence on their side of the border. Why would they want to deal with US law enforcement, which isn’t bribed or terrified into submission like their authorities?
| 350 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:21:25pm |
re: #345 blueraven
It’s just a pre-emptive strike tactic. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
no it isn’t…it’s a major meme that BO has tried to exploit to the max since before he was elected
| 351 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:21:32pm |
re: #346 jaunte
Well, it is true that a lot of the money was spent before Obama got in.
Which made it much more difficult to deal with the financial crisis of ‘08.
| 352 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:21:36pm |
re: #346 jaunte
Well, it is true that a lot of the money was spent before Obama got in.
Sure was and Obama increased the spending by miles. How is that working out?
| 353 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:21:43pm |
re: #338 JasonA
Longer school day. So they have to work more hours. For no more pay.
After that debt comment earlier I’m not so sure that slavery means what you think it means…
The teachers are employees, not slaves. They cannot be forced to work. If they are unwilling to make needed changes, then they can quit. There’s simply no money in Chicago for raises, so they will not be given.
| 354 |
ProTARDISLiberal Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:22:16pm |
re: #343 Dark_Falcon
I’m gonna give her a rundown with
a) Clue her into what happened to me in the past
and
b) Ask her why I should listen to someone who completely ignored the fact I was in severe mental trouble, to the point that Islam was what kept me from doing something stupid. For being an officer in a Fraternity with motto being “Leadership, Friendship, and service,” she was failing at the second one.
| 355 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:22:52pm |
re: #348 Atlas Fails
When Republicans stop blaming him for the national deficit.
BO deserves plenty of criticism…are you blind?
| 356 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:23:08pm |
re: #348 Atlas Fails
When Republicans stop blaming him for the national deficit.
When he stop spending like a drunken sailor.
| 357 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:23:28pm |
re: #352 NJDhockeyfan
To the extent that it keeps money flowing through the economy, it’s better than everyone keeping it in the mattress.
| 358 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:24:45pm |
re: #349 palomino
Maybe it’s terrorists. Or maybe it’s the cartels, who are armed better than most terrorists. We’ll finally have to get involved in northern Mexico IF the cartel violence spills across the border a lot more than it already has. So far the cartels have been smart enough to keep the violence on their side of the border. Why would they want to deal with US law enforcement, which isn’t bribed or terrified into submission like their authorities?
Not to worry…
“The border is better now than it ever has been.”
~ Janet Napolitano
| 359 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:24:57pm |
re: #349 palomino
Maybe it’s terrorists. Or maybe it’s the cartels, who are armed better than most terrorists. We’ll finally have to get involved in northern Mexico IF the cartel violence spills across the border a lot more than it already has. So far the cartels have been smart enough to keep the violence on their side of the border. Why would they want to deal with US law enforcement, which isn’t bribed or terrified into submission like their authorities?
It’s already spilling over more. The cartels are getting bolder and in some small border towns they can mass more and better armed/trained men than the local sheriff. But we won’t be intervening in Mexico. THis is 2011, not 1916. America is too tired and too broke for that kind of venture right now.
| 360 |
goddamnedfrank Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:25:14pm |
The historically unprecedented use of the filibuster doesn’t even enter into some people’s calculations. Not because they’re unaware of it, but because they’re incredibly dishonest.
| 361 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:25:47pm |
re: #344 NJDhockeyfan
Blah blah blah…same shit, different day. George Bush left the WH 2 1/2 years ago. When does buck stop with the current president?
I’m sure you’ve noticed that Obama’s getting plenty of blame—poll numbers down, Dem base not happy with him, TP thinks he hates America, etc.
And historically speaking, EVERY president gets blamed for all kinds of things after he leaves office. The left still loves to bash Nixon and Reagan, in addition to both Bushes. And the right still loves to bash Clinton, Carter, LBJ, even FDR. This is nothing new or different with W.
| 362 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:26:08pm |
re: #355 albusteve
BO deserves plenty of criticism…are you blind?
Every leader deserves some criticism. For things they actually do. The right’s sudden amnesia about the eight year disaster that was W is both comical and predictable. Now, you could make an argument that Obama hasn’t done enough to clean up Bush’s mess, but it’s idiotic to argue that it was all Obama’s mess in the first place.
| 363 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:26:30pm |
re: #350 albusteve
no it isn’t…it’s a major meme that BO has tried to exploit to the max since before he was elected
There is no fucking meme. George Bush got us involved in a war that has cost trillions…for no good reason. Then cut taxes because he felt we, as a country, can not make sacrifices any more.
It did something bad to us as a nation.
| 364 |
ProTARDISLiberal Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:27:38pm |
re: #361 palomino
I object more to Reagan than Nixon.
Watergate was far less damaging to the US and less of a legal infraction than Iran-Contra.
| 365 |
goddamnedfrank Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:27:55pm |
re: #352 NJDhockeyfan
Sure was and Obama increased the spending by miles. How is that working out?
Putting the wars officially on the books is not increasing spending, it’s simply acknowledging it, something Bush refused to do.
| 366 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:28:15pm |
re: #350 albusteve
no it isn’t…it’s a major meme that BO has tried to exploit to the max since before he was elected
which president with a predecessor from the other party didn’t employ the same tactic? it’s as old as politics itself. only the really naive “hope and change” people thought he wouldn’t act as a conventional politician.
| 367 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:28:39pm |
re: #363 blueraven
There is no fucking meme. George Bush got us involved in a war that has cost trillions…for no good reason. Then cut taxes because he felt we, as a country, can not make sacrifices any more.
It did something bad to us as a nation.
blaming Bush is not getting the job done…I don’t give a fuck otherwise…but it’s a weak expression of leadership
| 368 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:28:41pm |
| 369 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:28:50pm |
re: #344 NJDhockeyfan
Blah blah blah…same shit, different day. George Bush left the WH 2 1/2 years ago. When does buck stop with the current president?
When the Republicans in the house grow up.
| 370 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:28:51pm |
re: #352 NJDhockeyfan
Sure was and Obama increased the spending by miles. How is that working out?
What spending did he increase other than the stimulus, which was 40% tax cuts?
| 371 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:30:01pm |
re: #364 ProLifeLiberal
I object more to Reagan than Nixon.
Watergate was far less damaging to the US and less of a legal infraction than Iran-Contra.
True, but character and intentions count. Americans saw Reagan as a fatherly patriot who always tried to do what was right. They saw Nixon as a cold, paranoid creep who could get things done (until Watergate, then they just saw the creep part). Image is everything.
| 372 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:30:29pm |
re: #364 ProLifeLiberal
I object more to Reagan than Nixon.
Watergate was far less damaging to the US and less of a legal infraction than Iran-Contra.
He beat the fucking Soviet Union without firing a shot. Iran-Contra was a problem for Reagan but he is better remembered for destroying the communist assholes in the USSR.
| 373 |
Four More Tears Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:30:50pm |
re: #368 jaunte
Imagine the freakout today if we brought back red points and blue points during wartime.
[Link: www.ebay.com…]
Well I’m pretty sure we’d want that war over and done with pretty darn qui…hey, they might have been on to something.
| 374 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:30:57pm |
re: #365 goddamnedfrank
Putting the wars officially on the books is not increasing spending, it’s simply acknowledging it, something Bush refused to do.
It’s all Bush’s fault!
| 375 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:31:18pm |
re: #370 palomino
What spending did he increase other than the stimulus, which was 40% tax cuts?
I think the stimulus is the target here
| 376 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:31:40pm |
| 377 |
prairiefire Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:32:34pm |
re: #321 blueraven
Save a bit of your hatred for big business that is providing wind to the sail.
The US Chamber Of Commerce is running anti-union ads on the radio in KC. Plus, Karl Rove’s group is spending a lot on ads against our democratic senator.
| 378 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:32:59pm |
re: #369 wlewisiii
When the Republicans in the house grow up.
The Democrats had the House & Senate for 4 years along with a president for 2 of those years and got almost nothing done while blaming the Republicans & George Bush the whole time.
Very impressive leadership!
| 379 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:33:16pm |
re: #375 albusteve
I think the stimulus is the target here
Its a one shot deal..not a structural thing like tax cuts, or ongoing war expenses.
| 380 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:33:49pm |
re: #379 blueraven
Its a one shot deal..not a structural thing like tax cuts, or ongoing war expenses.
yes
| 381 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:33:58pm |
re: #372 NJDhockeyfan
He beat the fucking Soviet Union without firing a shot. Iran-Contra was a problem for Reagan but he is better remembered for destroying the communist assholes in the USSR.
Not to burst your bubble, but Glasnot had more to do with the USSR’s fall than any pretty speeches Reagan gave.
| 382 |
ProTARDISLiberal Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:34:18pm |
re: #371 Atlas Fails
But Nixon, (at least in my opinion) had a disorder.
Reagan may have been more grandfatherly on the outside, but was an ass otherwise. Let’s not forgot that he didn’t sign the Law of the Seas treaty because it would (paraphrased) “Give control of much of the waters to the third world.” Or is his support of State’s Rights, which we all know is code.
Reagan was scum.
| 383 |
goddamnedfrank Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:34:50pm |
re: #378 NJDhockeyfan
The Democrats had the House & Senate for 4 years along with a president for 2 of those years and got almost nothing done while blaming the Republicans & George Bush the whole time.
Very impressive leadership!
See what I mean about deliberately ignoring the unprecedented use of the filibuster?
| 384 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:35:14pm |
re: #372 NJDhockeyfan
He beat the fucking Soviet Union without firing a shot. Iran-Contra was a problem for Reagan but he is better remembered for destroying the communist assholes in the USSR.
That’s a huge oversimplification. Reagan didn’t engage the Russkies mano a mano in a cage match. He deserves credit, but he didn’t do it alone…it was the result of a long process going back decades.
Reagan was smarter than Nixon. He owned up to some of his mistakes. But what he did was a huge abuse of presidential power, and not something that should be condoned for any president.
| 385 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:35:14pm |
re: #375 albusteve
I think the stimulus is the target here
Whatever happened to all those shovel ready jobs we were promised?
| 386 |
ProTARDISLiberal Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:35:17pm |
re: #381 Atlas Fails
Yeah, Soviet Union was already having major issues.
| 387 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:35:20pm |
re: #381 Atlas Fails
Not to burst your bubble, but Glasnot had more to do with the USSR’s fall than any pretty speeches Reagan gave.
who cares?…give him the play…nobody wants the truth, think JFK for example
| 388 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:36:28pm |
re: #385 NJDhockeyfan
Whatever happened to all those shovel ready jobs we were promised?
they’ve multiplied, but nobody seems to have the shovel
| 389 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:36:32pm |
re: #381 Atlas Fails
Not to burst your bubble, but Glasnot had more to do with the USSR’s fall than any pretty speeches Reagan gave.
The history books seem to disagree with you but keep that dream alive if you want.
| 390 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:36:42pm |
re: #372 NJDhockeyfan
He beat the fucking Soviet Union without firing a shot. Iran-Contra was a problem for Reagan but he is better remembered for destroying the communist assholes in the USSR.
Yeah. Right. They, just barely, went cash broke first. We’re still dealing with the damage done to the structure of the economy by Reagan/Bush (Spend trillions on weapons! No new taxes!) and will probably disintegrate as a nation because of it. The FSU is far more likely to be a superpower 50 years from now than we are thanks to Ronny Fucking Raygun and the Teabaggers who worship the idol they have made out of his bones.
| 391 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:37:38pm |
re: #383 goddamnedfrank
See what I mean about deliberately ignoring the unprecedented use of the filibuster?
Nice try. The Democrats failed, period.
| 392 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:38:54pm |
re: #388 albusteve
they’ve multiplied, but nobody seems to have the shovel
The manufacturers who make shovels hired more people?
| 393 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:39:49pm |
re: #385 NJDhockeyfan
Whatever happened to all those shovel ready jobs we were promised?
They’re building and repairing shit all around me here in LA, with plenty of signs making it clear that it’s funded by the stimulus. The amount of money devoted specifically to job creation was only a couple hundred billion. In an economy this size, that’s not enough to make a big long term difference anyway. The GOP would have spent even less on such projects, so would they be better. And our infrastructure does need improving, right?
| 394 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:40:09pm |
re: #387 albusteve
who cares?…give him the play…nobody wants the truth, think JFK for example
Just because people don’t want to hear it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t. JFK was a popular, youthful president who was shot down in his prime. If people can’t deal with the fact that he was also a womanizer who was reluctant to support civil rights, that’s their problem, not mine. Same goes for Reagan. If people want to plug their ears and pretend that slogans and American Exceptionalism saved our economy and ended the Cold War, I’m going to debate them.
| 395 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:40:39pm |
re: #389 NJDhockeyfan
The history books seem to disagree with you but keep that dream alive if you want.
I LOVE REAGAN!!!!!!!!
REAGAN IN 2012!!!!!!!
| 396 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:41:06pm |
re: #393 palomino
They’re building and repairing shit all around me here in LA, with plenty of signs making it clear that it’s funded by the stimulus. The amount of money devoted specifically to job creation was only a couple hundred billion. In an economy this size, that’s not enough to make a big long term difference anyway. The GOP would have spent even less on such projects, so would they be better. And our infrastructure does need improving, right?
whatever…it was a spoof
| 397 |
BongCrodny Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:41:10pm |
re: #394 Atlas Fails
Just because people don’t want to hear it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t. JFK was a popular, youthful president who was shot down in his prime. If people can’t deal with the fact that he was also a womanizer who was reluctant to support civil rights, that’s their problem, not mine. Same goes for Reagan. If people want to plug their ears and pretend that slogans and American Exceptionalism saved our economy and ended the Cold War, I’m going to debate them.
Yeah, but how do you debate a guy that argues in platitudes?
| 398 |
Four More Tears Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:41:42pm |
re: #391 NJDhockeyfan
Nice try. The Democrats failed, period.
Then what the fuck did the Republicans do?
| 399 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:41:54pm |
re: #391 NJDhockeyfan
Nice try. The Democrats failed, period.
yeah, your sides the greatest (Boehner! Perry!) and our side just sucks. why are you such a sore winner?
| 400 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:42:08pm |
re: #378 NJDhockeyfan
The Democrats had the House & Senate for 4 years along with a president for 2 of those years and got almost nothing done while blaming the Republicans & George Bush the whole time.
Very impressive leadership!
Actually, despite republican obstructionism, they achieved quite a bit.
On and DADT officially ends this Tuesday, did ya hear?
| 401 |
albusteve Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:42:33pm |
re: #394 Atlas Fails
Just because people don’t want to hear it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t. JFK was a popular, youthful president who was shot down in his prime. If people can’t deal with the fact that he was also a womanizer who was reluctant to support civil rights, that’s their problem, not mine. Same goes for Reagan. If people want to plug their ears and pretend that slogans and American Exceptionalism saved our economy and ended the Cold War, I’m going to debate them.
I’m old…I have more pressing issues, but go for it
| 402 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:42:38pm |
re: #389 NJDhockeyfan
The history books seem to disagree with you but keep that dream alive if you want.
I assume you mean the Texas history books?
| 403 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:43:04pm |
Meanwhile after losing over a half billion dollars on a bad loan, the Chicago Tribune is calling it the Chicago Way.
The Solyndra scandal cost at least a half-billion public dollars. It is plaguing President Barack Obama. And it’s being billed as a Washington story.
But back in Obama’s political hometown, those of us familiar with the Chicago Way can see something else in Solyndra — something that the Washington crowd calls “optics.” In fact, it’s not just a Washington saga — it has all the elements of a Chicago City Hall story, except with more zeros.
The FBI is investigating what happened with Solyndra, a solar panel company that got a $535 million government-backed loan with the help of the Obama White House over the objections of federal budget analysts.
Obama and Vice President Joe Biden got a nice photo op. They got to make speeches about being “green.” But then Solyndra went bankrupt. Americans lost jobs. Taxpayers got stuck with the bill. And members of Congress are now in high dudgeon and making speeches.
Federal investigators want to know what role political fundraising played in the guarantee of the questionable loan. Washington bureaucrats warned the deal was lousy. And White House spokesmen flail desperately, like weakened victims in a cheesy vampire movie.
So forget optics. What about smell? It smells bad, and it’s going to smell worse.
Or, did you really believe it when the White House mouthpieces — who are also Chicago City Hall mouthpieces — promised they were bringing a new kind of politics to Washington?
This is not a new kind of politics. It’s the old kind. The Chicago kind.
| 404 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:44:52pm |
re: #378 NJDhockeyfan
The Democrats had the House & Senate for 4 years along with a president for 2 of those years and got almost nothing done while blaming the Republicans & George Bush the whole time.
Very impressive leadership!
They shot their wad on Obamacare…you may not like it, and maybe it sucks, but it was the biggest legislative achievement since Medicare in the 60s.
What did the GOP accomplish from 2000-2006 legislatively? Tax cuts and the Patriot Act. Woo hoo.
| 405 |
Interesting Times Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:45:30pm |
re: #400 blueraven
Actually, despite republican obstructionism, they achieved quite a bit.
On and DADT officially ends this Tuesday, did ya hear?
Not if House Republicans have anything to say about it:
Once again, Republicans are putting the Christian Right Wing agenda first, instead of working on creating jobs that Americans desperately need. Joe ‘You Lie!’ Wilson and Buck McKeon sent a letter to Leon Panetta asking to delay lifting ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ because they claim they haven’t received copies of the new regulations that will take effect after the policy is repealed.
| 406 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:46:20pm |
re: #398 JasonA
Then what the fuck did the Republicans do?
What could they do, the Dems were running the whole government. They failed tremendously and now we are seeing the results, a bad economy and high unemployment.
| 407 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:46:49pm |
re: #400 blueraven
Actually, despite republican obstructionism, they achieved quite a bit.
On and DADT officially ends this Tuesday, did ya hear?
That’s all you got?
| 408 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:46:57pm |
re: #401 albusteve
I’m old…I have more pressing issues, but go for it
I just don’t like how all historical figures are typecast as either white knights or evil incarnate. Kennedy, Nixon, Reagan, all of them, should be lauded for their accomplishments and also studied for their failures. When we break history into good guys and bad guys, it makes it hard to examine their accomplishments objectively. My mom, for example, is still convinced that Nixon “sold us down the river” to China. Meanwhile, any criticism of JFK is usually met with some variation of “it was a different time.”
409 |
lostlakehiker Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:47:27pm |
re: #213 albusteve
flash mobs of 10k plus…chew on that
Looting will be tolerated at first. But it will not be permitted to go to the point that big cities are burned in whole or in large part.
Most of the people who are hurting are not inclined to riot. They just want their jobs back, or some job any job, and maybe if it would not be asking too much, they’d like their mortgage debt adjusted.
Many shop owners are not cool with literally giving away the store, especially since looters aren’t looking for groceries, but beer, designer clothes, and electronic toys.
In the U.S., these shopowners would be within their rights to defend their property with deadly force. Flash looting cannot help but lead to fatalities, and not, as in Britain, just among those who object to it.
The prime duty of the State is to maintain a degree of law and order. Use minimal force, for Kent State is not the model. But use sufficient force that the cities don’t burn and gunfights aren’t the primary way society decides who owns what.
| 410 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:47:30pm |
re: #403 NJDhockeyfan
Meanwhile after losing over a half billion dollars on a bad loan, the Chicago Tribune is calling it the Chicago Way.
You are so predictable.
We wont get into Halliburton or Enron or all that other minor stuff.
Suffice to say, Industrial policy has been around for awhile, like Bush’s billions for hydro cars. What happened to all that money?
Sometimes investments do not work out.
| 411 |
Four More Tears Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:47:38pm |
re: #406 NJDhockeyfan
What could they do, the Dems were running the whole government. They failed tremendously and now we are seeing the results, a bad economy and high unemployment.
Really? They were? Gee, it seemed to me like that Senate minority filibustered anything that moved.
| 412 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:47:49pm |
re: #381 Atlas Fails
Not to burst your bubble, but Glasnot had more to do with the USSR’s fall than any pretty speeches Reagan gave.
Reagan’s actions were far more than speeches. He built a military they could not afford to match while using Afghanistan to bleed the Red Army of troops and treasure. The pressure was brought to bear on multiple fronts and proved unbearable for the USSR. So i would argue Ronald Reagan played a major role in ending the Cold War.
413 |
Shiplord Kirel Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:48:26pm |
I’m bummed out over the Reno air crash, especially the news that in fact nine people died in the accident rather than the three reported yesterday. It is horrifying that it took 24 hours to determine this number even though there was no fire, the site was secure and located on smooth pavement, and skilled emergency workers were on hand instantly.
It is obvious that some spectators, probably six in fact, were struck directly by the plane. I saw two relatively intact bodies in the video but several witnesses reported being struck by body parts and seeing a lot of fragmented remains. Coroners would not have known the number until they had a chance to examine and sort the recovered remains. Accidents with this intensity of violence are rare but they do happen and coroners have procedures for dealing with them.
At least with DNA, it will be possible to identify and separate the bodies for return to loved ones. In the past, victims of disasters like this have often been buried in mass graves, for example in the Grand Canyon air disaster of 1956. In that incident, involving the collision of two airliners, only 4 of the 70 occupants of the TWA plane could be identified with enough confidence for individual burial. The rest are buried together in a special section of the Flagstaff cemetery. 29 of the 53 people aboard the United plane are similarly buried in the Grand Canyon cemetery.
| 414 |
Four More Tears Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:49:05pm |
re: #412 Dark_Falcon
He also built a military that we can’t afford to keep. Chew on that for a while.
| 415 |
lostlakehiker Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:49:38pm |
re: #404 palomino
They shot their wad on Obamacare…you may not like it, and maybe it sucks, but it was the biggest legislative achievement since Medicare in the 60s.
What did the GOP accomplish from 2000-2006 legislatively? Tax cuts and the Patriot Act. Woo hoo.
I don’t like it. It’s less than zero of an achievement. It will have to be redone from scratch. Not just voided; some reform was necessary. But the next iteration will have to fix all sorts of fatal flaws in o-care.
| 416 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:49:46pm |
re: #404 palomino
They shot their wad on Obamacare…you may not like it, and maybe it sucks, but it was the biggest legislative achievement since Medicare in the 60s.
What did the GOP accomplish from 2000-2006 legislatively? Tax cuts and the Patriot Act. Woo hoo.
The economy didn’t go south until the Dems were running Congress. Way to go!
| 417 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:49:46pm |
re: #406 NJDhockeyfan
What could they do, the Dems were running the whole government. They failed tremendously and now we are seeing the results, a bad economy and high unemployment.
So the Republicans had nothing to do with the bad economy and high unemployment?
| 418 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:52:03pm |
re: #403 NJDhockeyfan
Meanwhile after losing over a half billion dollars on a bad loan, the Chicago Tribune is calling it the Chicago Way.
The Tribune has been seeing this from the Dems of Illinois for years, so they are good at categorizing it. I agree wit the Trib’s editorial board on this.
It must be noted however, that the Chicago Tribune has always favored Republicans over Democrats when it could. It endorse Obama in 2008, but the paper has moved significantly to the right since then. I do not expect the Tribune to endorse Obama again next year if the GOP nominates Perry or Romney.
| 419 |
BongCrodny Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:52:41pm |
re: #412 Dark_Falcon
Reagan’s actions were far more than speeches. He built a military they could not afford to match while using Afghanistan to bleed the Red Army of troops and treasure. The pressure was brought to bear on multiple fronts and proved unbearable for the USSR. So i would argue Ronald Reagan played a major role in ending the Cold War.
At least that’s a bit more realistic than “Reagan slew the evil communists with his mighty words.”
| 420 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:54:26pm |
re: #411 JasonA
Really? They were? Gee, it seemed to me like that Senate minority filibustered anything that moved.
Filibuster! Filibuster! Filibuster!
Is that all you got for an excuse, really? The entire government running by the Democrats were defeated by filibuster? LOL!!!
| 421 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:55:01pm |
re: #414 JasonA
He also built a military that we can’t afford to keep. Chew on that for a while.
We can afford a first-class military, and in fact we must have one. If that means cuts in social spending, then so be it.
| 422 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:57:43pm |
re: #412 Dark_Falcon
Reagan’s actions were far more than speeches. He built a military they could not afford to match while using Afghanistan to bleed the Red Army of troops and treasure. The pressure was brought to bear on multiple fronts and proved unbearable for the USSR. So i would argue Ronald Reagan played a major role in ending the Cold War.
No. Gorbachev did while playing Ronnie like a fiddle. He knew they couldn’t outspend us so he conned the cons into outspending ourselves. Do you remember the stupid threat assessments that the CIA issued annually? Full of lies generated by Moscow to make themselves look even stronger? So we’d spend still more money than we had to? Do you remember all the billions wasted on “Star Wars”? The Sgt York?
And Ronnie, with the brains of a hollywood actor, fell for it hook, line and sinker and, in the process, planted the seeds for our eventual destruction as a coherent nation state by setting up the Teabaggers in their theocratic fantasies and ignorance of science and economics.
| 423 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:58:20pm |
re: #412 Dark_Falcon
Reagan’s actions were far more than speeches. He built a military they could not afford to match while using Afghanistan to bleed the Red Army of troops and treasure. The pressure was brought to bear on multiple fronts and proved unbearable for the USSR. So i would argue Ronald Reagan played a major role in ending the Cold War.
You make valid points. Reagan did make a lot of diplomatic progress with the USSR and, to his credit, did everything he could to prevent nuclear war. But he was also very lucky to have a receptive counterpart in Gorbachev. The Soviet Union was also suffering from massive internal social and economic unrest, and was being bled dry by their war in Afghanistan. Reagan would have had to really screw up to keep them from collapsing.
| 424 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:58:35pm |
re: #416 NJDhockeyfan
The economy didn’t go south until the Dems were running Congress. Way to go!
What? That’s just total partisan hackery. The president at the time was a Republican. And the Congress had been controlled for the previous 12 years by the gop. Are you saying they deserve none of the blame? That’s a joke.
| 425 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:59:34pm |
re: #419 BongCrodny
At least that’s a bit more realistic than “Reagan slew the evil communists with his mighty words.”
That is because I deal in real history, not in myth. Reagan struck the right tone, but his deeds were far more important than his words. Invading Grenada and supporting the Contras did more to arrest the tide of Communism than any speech ever given.
| 426 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 9:59:43pm |
re: #422 wlewisiii
No. Gorbachev did while playing Ronnie like a fiddle. He knew they couldn’t outspend us so he conned the cons into outspending ourselves. Do you remember the stupid threat assessments that the CIA issued annually? Full of lies generated by Moscow to make themselves look even stronger? So we’d spend still more money than we had to? Do you remember all the billions wasted on “Star Wars”? The Sgt York?
And Ronnie, with the brains of a hollywood actor, fell for it hook, line and sinker and, in the process, planted the seeds for our eventual destruction as a coherent nation state by setting up the Teabaggers in their theocratic fantasies and ignorance of science and economics.
WTF? Where did you hear that bullshit? You are totally wrong.
| 427 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:01:15pm |
re: #421 Dark_Falcon
We can afford a first-class military, and in fact we must have one. If that means cuts in social spending, then so be it.
So our military was second-class before Reagan came along?
| 428 |
Four More Tears Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:01:34pm |
re: #421 Dark_Falcon
We can afford a first-class military, and in fact we must have one. If that means cuts in social spending, then so be it.
Uh huh. It’s really fascinating how much you deal in certainties and absolutes.
| 429 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:01:43pm |
re: #426 NJDhockeyfan
WTF? Where did you hear that bullshit? You are totally wrong.
Go back and read the threat assessment from, say, 1982. It’s a public document available at most archival libraries. Find any truth in it. If you do, I’ll buy a round.
| 430 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:01:57pm |
re: #420 NJDhockeyfan
Filibuster! Filibuster! Filibuster!
Is that all you got for an excuse, really? The entire government running by the Democrats were defeated by filibuster? LOL!!!
Trust me, the filibuster is really gonna bother you the next time a Republican is in the WH. When the other side blocks 80% of your legislative proposals through filibuster, it’ll piss you off.
| 431 |
BongCrodny Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:03:04pm |
re: #425 Dark_Falcon
That is because I deal in real history, not in myth. Reagan struck the right tone, but his deeds were far more important than his words. Invading Grenada and supporting the Contras did more to arrest the tide of Communism than any speech ever given.
Sure. But you still upding him.
| 432 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:04:08pm |
re: #431 BongCrodny
Sure. But you still upding him.
To be fair, he also updinged me on a post critical of Reagan.
| 433 |
Four More Tears Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:04:25pm |
re: #430 palomino
Trust me, the filibuster is really gonna bother you the next time a Republican is in the WH. When the other side blocks 80% of your legislative proposals through filibuster, it’ll piss you off.
When it’s done to Republicans it’s called “unAmerican.”
| 434 |
BongCrodny Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:06:34pm |
Okay, here’s some fuel for the fire. I’ll concede that if Obama loses in 2012, the below bit of trivia will change. I’ll also concede that there are many different factors involved, but:
Since 1948, every Democratic President has left office with an unemployment rate lower than it was when he took office.
Every Republican President (except Reagan) has left office with a higher unemployment rate than it was when he took office.
| 435 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:08:38pm |
re: #422 wlewisiii
Baloney. Gorbachev didn’t even take power till Reagan’s second term, and he tried to get us to reduce spending by limiting SDI (via the summit at Reykjavik, since he knew the Soviet Union could not build such a system). Moreover, from early on Reagan had offered the “Zero Option” regarding Intermediate Range Ballistic Missiles (IRBMs). When the Gorbachev agreed to this option in 1987, Reagan happily signed the IRBM Treaty and America’s Pershing IIs were withdrawn and scrapped. Your argument does not hold water.
| 436 |
BongCrodny Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:09:30pm |
re: #432 Atlas Fails
To be fair, he also updinged me on a post critical of Reagan.
Sure. Dark’s partisan, but he’s well-read and argues his positions reasonably well.
NJDhockeyfan doesn’t.
| 437 |
Renaissance_Man Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:10:00pm |
re: #421 Dark_Falcon
We can afford a first-class military, and in fact we must have one. If that means cuts in social spending, then so be it.
Still waiting for any serious Republican concerns. Or any facts that support the fantasy of glibertarian economic policy that you subscribe to.
Honestly, it’s like sometimes you forget that RedFacts aren’t universally accepted.
| 438 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:12:34pm |
re: #427 Atlas Fails
So our military was second-class before Reagan came along?
Honestly, yes it was. It had been underfunded and was not in good shape readiness wide.
In some ways, Reagan was lucky to have become President when he did. Had he won in 1976, the continuing adjustment to a volunteer force and inflation would have prevented him from making major improvements.
| 439 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:12:59pm |
re: #435 Dark_Falcon
Baloney. Gorbachev didn’t even take power till Reagan’s second term, and he tried to get us to reduce spending by limiting SDI (via the summit at Reykjavik, since he knew the Soviet Union could not build such a system). Moreover, from early on Reagan had offered the “Zero Option” regarding Intermediate Range Ballistic Missiles (IRBMs). When the Gorbachev agreed to this option in 1987, Reagan happily signed the IRBM Treaty and America’s Pershing IIs were withdrawn and scrapped. Your argument does not hold water.
Everything is entirely correct. I remember all this happening during the Reagan years.
| 440 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:13:53pm |
re: #436 BongCrodny
Sure. Dark’s partisan, but he’s well-read and argues his positions reasonably well.
NJDhockeyfan doesn’t.
Thank you for the first part, but the second part prevents me from updinging you.
| 441 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:14:10pm |
re: #439 NJDhockeyfan
Everything is entirely correct. I remember all this happening during the Reagan years.
Funny how you can remember all that and block out the Bush years.
| 442 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:14:15pm |
re: #436 BongCrodny
Sure. Dark’s partisan, but he’s well-read and argues his positions reasonably well.
NJDhockeyfan doesn’t.
We’re all partisan to some degree. How you argue your positions is ultimately how you should be judged.
| 443 |
goddamnedfrank Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:14:50pm |
re: #438 Dark_Falcon
Honestly, yes it was.
What nation’s military was it second class to?
Honestly, no it wasn’t, and that was an absolutely ridiculous thing to assert.
| 444 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:15:15pm |
re: #441 blueraven
Funny how you can remember all that and block out the Bush years.
Back to George Bush again!
LOL!!!!!
| 445 |
BongCrodny Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:16:02pm |
re: #438 Dark_Falcon
Honestly, yes it was. It had been underfunded and was not in good shape readiness wide.
In some ways, Reagan was lucky to have become President when he did. Had he won in 1976, the continuing adjustment to a volunteer force and inflation would have prevented him from making major improvements.
No problem. There’s enough people that have already agreed with me for me to know I’m not totally blowing smoke here.
| 446 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:16:35pm |
re: #443 goddamnedfrank
What nation’s military was it second class to?
Honestly, no it wasn’t, and that was an absolutely ridiculous thing to assert.
Huh, don’t you remember the dangerous “missile gap” that threatened us for decades?
Oh, yeah, the gap was actually in the other direction.
| 447 |
Four More Tears Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:16:47pm |
One thing I have in common with Republicans is that we all want to completely forget George Bush.
| 448 |
blueraven Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:16:56pm |
re: #444 NJDhockeyfan
Back to George Bush again!
LOL!!!
Because I know how much you love him! You dont have to thank me.
| 449 |
BongCrodny Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:17:02pm |
Getting tired. That last post should have been a response to #440, not #438.
| 450 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:17:05pm |
re: #440 Dark_Falcon
Thank you for the first part, but the second part prevents me from updinging you.
Upding…thanks DF.
| 451 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:17:21pm |
| 452 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:17:40pm |
re: #435 Dark_Falcon
Everything you say is correct. But we still kept on increasing spending while even though there shouldn’t have been the need.
Instead we handed Moscow what they wanted - no extremely accurate Pershing II’s in Europe (really the only thing that made Enhanced Neutron Radiation Weapons viable) , still kept spending on “Star Wars” and other fantasy weapons while they could back off on much of their own spending. Not enough for Moscow to save themselves, in the end, as they couldn’t convert it to consumer goods, but that was their real failure not some magic from Ronnie.
Reagan was played like a fiddle by three general secretaries of the Supreme Soviet.
| 453 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:17:42pm |
re: #438 Dark_Falcon
Honestly, yes it was. It had been underfunded and was not in good shape readiness wide.
In some ways, Reagan was lucky to have become President when he did. Had he won in 1976, the continuing adjustment to a volunteer force and inflation would have prevented him from making major improvements.
All that funding hasn’t helped us much in guerrilla wars in the Middle East. I know Reagan was trying to prepare us for war with Communist countries, but our current military, despite its funding and training, is a square peg trying to fit in a round hole.
| 454 |
Atlas Fails Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:19:10pm |
re: #444 NJDhockeyfan
Back to George Bush again!
LOL!!!
How about this: we’ll stop invoking Bush when you stop invoking Reagan.
| 455 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:23:10pm |
re: #454 Atlas Fails
How about this: we’ll stop invoking Bush when you stop invoking Reagan.
Rarely do I see Ronald Reagan mentioned on here but I see you guys whining about George Bush all the time. I think they refer to that as obsession.
| 456 |
Four More Tears Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:23:36pm |
re: #454 Atlas Fails
How about this: we’ll stop invoking Bush when you stop invoking Reagan.
Yeah, they really should stop bringing up Reagan. That failure raised taxes 11 times…
| 457 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:27:21pm |
re: #455 NJDhockeyfan
Rarely do I see Ronald Reagan mentioned on here but I see you guys whining about George Bush all the time. I think they refer to that as obsession.
You don’t think the gop will blame Obama once he’s out of office (whenever that is)?
Every president blames his predecessor from the other party, especially when that person is considered to be a failure. Hence the blame of Bush Sr. and Carter by Clinton and Reagan, respectively. It’s part of politics, always has been.
| 458 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:38:07pm |
re: #457 palomino
You don’t think the gop will blame Obama once he’s out of office (whenever that is)?
Every president blames his predecessor from the other party, especially when that person is considered to be a failure. Hence the blame of Bush Sr. and Carter by Clinton and Reagan, respectively. It’s part of politics, always has been.
Maybe they blame them the 1st year but not the entire time they are in office.
| 459 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:40:30pm |
re: #452 wlewisiii
Everything you say is correct. But we still kept on increasing spending while even though there shouldn’t have been the need.
Instead we handed Moscow what they wanted - no extremely accurate Pershing II’s in Europe (really the only thing that made Enhanced Neutron Radiation Weapons viable) , still kept spending on “Star Wars” and other fantasy weapons while they could back off on much of their own spending. Not enough for Moscow to save themselves, in the end, as they couldn’t convert it to consumer goods, but that was their real failure not some magic from Ronnie.
Reagan was played like a fiddle by three general secretaries of the Supreme Soviet.
Reagan never really liked the Pershing IIs. He saw them as a response to the threat posed by the Soviet SS-20 ‘Saber’. When the Soviets agreed to withdraw their missiles, Reagan withdrew his.
And I must ask this: If Gorbachev saw SDI as a fantasy, why was he so anxious to see it limited to the laboratory at the Reykjavik summit? It seems more logical to assume that he really saw it as something the Soviets could not match and he was trying to prevent its deployment.
Neither Gorbachev or Reagan ‘played’ each other. Reagan didn’t need to, since he had already secured the upper hand by the time Gorbachev took power.
| 460 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:41:46pm |
re: #454 Atlas Fails
How about this: we’ll stop invoking Bush when you stop invoking Reagan.
I didn’t invoke Reagan. He was brought up in the discussion and I defended him.
| 461 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:42:33pm |
re: #459 Dark_Falcon
I continue to disagree, but DF, I am burning out this evening. May we continue this disagreement another evening?
| 462 |
goddamnedfrank Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:45:35pm |
re: #458 NJDhockeyfan
Maybe they blame them the 1st year but not the entire time they are in office.
Again one must ask the question, merely stupid or dishonest? The Bush administration was blaming Clinton for their deficits well into 2008.
| 463 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:46:14pm |
re: #461 wlewisiii
I continue to disagree, but DF, I am burning out this evening. May we continue this disagreement another evening?
Sounds like a plan. I’m going to knock off as well. Let’s exchange updings for a good talk and resume it in the future. you’ve already got the upding.
Goodnight all.
| 464 |
Pavlovian Hive Mind Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:47:25pm |
re: #463 Dark_Falcon
Sounds like a plan. I’m going to knock off as well. Let’s exchange updings for a good talk and resume it in the future. you’ve already got the upding.
Goodnight all.
*Hits DF with chair WWF style*
:)
| 465 |
palomino Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:47:47pm |
re: #458 NJDhockeyfan
Maybe they blame them the 1st year but not the entire time they are in office.
How can you make such a prediction? Previous presidents of both parties have blamed their predecessors long past the one year mark, both Reagan and Clinton did just that.
I think you’d agree that a lot of people have completely irrational ideas about Obama—that he’s a jihadist without a birth certifiticate, a communist, wants to destroy America from within, Manchurian candidate, etc. Do you really think those people will stop criticizing Obama after the one year mark?
| 466 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Sep 17, 2011 10:48:00pm |
re: #463 Dark_Falcon
Sounds like a plan. I’m going to knock off as well. Let’s exchange updings for a good talk and resume it in the future. you’ve already got the upding.
Goodnight all.
Sounds good, sir, catch you on the other side.
| 467 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Sep 17, 2011 11:05:35pm |
re: #268 Dark_Falcon
Debt enslaves, believe that.
Then no wonder confederate conservatives insist on returning to a sharecropper economic model, where everyone competes for Malaysia-level wages in a San Francisco/New York standard of living. How else are you going to rake in the cash.
| 468 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Sep 17, 2011 11:39:07pm |
re: #310 Dark_Falcon
Exactly. That’s why Rahm Emmanuel, a fairly liberal Democrat, is pushing forward longer school days in Chicago. The teachers union is screaming, but Rahm’s not budging, and he shouldn’t. The teachers in Chicago having been failing badly for years. During those years, many ‘carrot’ methods have been used to try to improve things. They have not worked well enough, so now firmer measures are being used. To those of them who demand more pay, I say: “No. Having failed as badly as you have for years on end, you’re lucky to still be employed. So shut up and get on with the job.”
Let me just say this: it’s going to be interesting to see what the excuse is when the longer school day doesn’t work.
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