Video: Andrew Breitbart Spews Profanities and Insults at TeaCon

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Wingnuts • Views: 31,124

Here’s one of the star speakers at TeaBagCon this weekend, Andrew Breitbart, spewing obscenities at his enemies. He calls Janeane Garofalo “Hollywood’s sympathy f*ck,” to a wildly cheering audience of conservatives.

Youtube Video

He follows up this classless rant by telling union leaders James Hoffa and Richard Trumka, “F*ck you,” again to wild cheers and applause.

Youtube Video

Meanwhile, we learn that one of the event’s main organizers, Chicago Tea Party Patriots Director Steve Stevlic, was arrested last September for soliciting a prostitute.

Teabag family values, proudly on display.

UPDATE at 10/1/11 11:02:00 am

And the scandal is getting even more interesting. Breitbart’s own far right blogger Warner Todd Huston notes that TeaCon organizer Steve Stevlic, whose whereabouts are currently unknown, may also have been playing some funny games with the Chicago Tea Party’s money.

The sex issue isn’t the bad part for Tea Party supporters, though. The sad thing is that Steve knew of his troubles but all these revelations have hit his supporters and followers completely unawares. He did not reveal his troubles even to the higher members of the Chicago Tea Party. Worse, I’ve spoken to several members of the upper level of the group who are worried that there are financial issues yet to be fully sussed out — they don’t want me to use their name because there are possible legal troubles here.

Few, it seems, have any clue where the Chicago Tea Party’s funds have gone, who has the accounts, what’s in them, etc.

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411 comments
1 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:39:42am

Ok, so my new mental image applies to more than Michelle Bachmann.

2 Lidane  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:44:09am

And remember, kids -- Breitbart and his readers are paragons of intelligent, reasoned arguments.

///

3 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:45:42am

He uses the f word quite a bit....
Andrew Breitbart : Janeane Garofalo is 'Hollywood's Sympathy F@CK

4 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:45:53am

To be perfectly honest: I am almost more disgusted with the audience than with him. Their cheering and egging him on, their lust in watching Breitbart proudly display the resentment they themselves are usually too ashamed to express in person in public is pretty twisted.

5 nines09  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:46:35am

And he's not even wearing his tiara. What a tool.

6 jaunte  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:47:23am

Jeering at Janeane Garofalo for calling teapartiers racists? Breitbart must not read the comments on his own websites.

7 Henchman 25  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:47:41am

"Fuck you"? I'm sold! There's no way to beat that sound, rock-solid logic!

///

8 Kronocide  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:47:48am

...trillion dollar shovel ready onslaught led by the inexorable Janine Garofalo.

WTF? That's the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time.

9 Lidane  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:48:00am

How soon before Breitbart starts whining on Twitter about jazzy ponytails?

10 [deleted]  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:48:47am
11 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:50:12am

re: #1 ggt

Ok, so my new mental image applies to more than Michelle Bachmann.

Oh, but Heidi is cute!!

12 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:50:33am

re: #2 Lidane

And remember, kids -- Breitbart and his readers are paragons of intelligent, reasoned arguments.

///

Much more intelligent and educated than the likes of us, yes, I know the drill.

13 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:51:07am

re: #10 MikeySDCA

Why do you think they go?

I get this, believe me. Making you feel good while the golden rule is being broken in your favor is a very profitable market in a troubled society.

14 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:51:10am

re: #11 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, but Heidi is cute!!

Yah know, I just don't think so.

It's the tail, gives me the shivers.

15 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:52:21am

And of course, Breitbart's fans post a sickening torrent of misogyny and hate speech:

[Link: www.breitbart.tv...]

16 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:53:12am

re: #14 ggt

Yah know, I just don't think so.

It's the tail, gives me the shivers.

There's a YA novel about a Mexican family adjusting to life in LA, in which the mother has a possum phobia. A bunch of them get into the yard one night when her husband is a away for work, and she calls 911. She is sufficiently panicked and incoherent on the phone, explaining that the yard is full of 'tlacuaches', that two squad cars get sent to investigate. They are not impressed with the possums.

They are weird-lookin' little things, but they have sweet faces.

17 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:53:13am

I think it's important to remember that the source of his bitterness is a failed career in Hollywood. Instead of blaming that failure on a lack of talent or ability or just the simple reality that the odds are against anyone being successful in Hollywood, he chose to blame Hollywood liberals. He's a narcissist with a victim mentality. He is a talentless asshole that nobody liked and he will never forgive Hollywood and by extension all liberals everywhere for noticing.

18 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:54:20am

Frank's quote seems strangely appropriate for the Breitbart fans:

For some real personal satisfaction, try yelling out your own names. -- At a concert in Boston, Massachusetts to some fans (my friends) who kept yelling out Frank's name.

19 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:54:39am

re: #14 ggt

Yah know, I just don't think so.

It's the tail, gives me the shivers.

I don't really like possums either.

20 darthstar  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:55:02am

Breitbart...I guess that makes this headline appropriate.

BC Woman hits moose on the way to visit sister who hit moose.

21 Kronocide  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:57:20am

Garofalo is a huge strawman for Breitbart, his adorable little Emmanuel Goldstein.

22 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:57:20am

re: #19 moderatelyradicalliberal

I don't really like possums either.

rodents -- except the big-eared field mouse -- I just don't like too much.

23 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:58:07am

re: #20 darthstar

Breitbart...I guess that makes this headline appropriate.

BC Woman hits moose on the way to visit sister who hit moose.

The moose was pregnant and died.

too bad, really.

24 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 10:59:12am

Prostitutes, foul language, bad grooming, baboon-like hooting and screeching; when are these Hollyweird lefties going to grow up?

Oh. This isn't the Academy Awards?

Never mind.

25 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:01:36am

re: #23 ggt

The moose was pregnant and died.

too bad, really.

I felt bad about that.

As the caption on the photo with the article says "When moose meets car, there are no winners."

26 jaunte  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:01:51am

re: #21 BigPapa

Garofalo is a huge strawman for Breitbart, his adorable little Emmanuel Goldstein.

He's upset at her for pointing out that Herman Cain might be a deflection.

“I believe Herman Cain is in this presidential race because he deflects the racism that is inherent in the Republican Party, the conservative movement, the tea party certainly, and the last 30 years, the Republican Party has been moving more and more the right, also race-baiting more, gay-baiting more, religion-baiting more.”

27 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:02:28am

And the scandal is getting even more interesting. Breitbart's own far right blogger Warner Todd Huston notes that TeaCon organizer Steve Stevlic, whose whereabouts are currently unknown, may also have been playing some funny games with the event's money.

The sex issue isn’t the bad part for Tea Party supporters, though. The sad thing is that Steve knew of his troubles but all these revelations have hit his supporters and followers completely unawares. He did not reveal his troubles even to the higher members of the Chicago Tea Party. Worse, I’ve spoken to several members of the upper level of the group who are worried that there are financial issues yet to be fully sussed out — they don’t want me to use their name because there are possible legal troubles here.

Few, it seems, have any clue where the Chicago Tea Party’s funds have gone, who has the accounts, what’s in them, etc.

28 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:03:40am

re: #27 Charles

And the scandal is getting even more interesting. Breitbart's own far right blogger Warner Todd Huston notes that TeaCon organizer Steve Stevlic, whose whereabouts are currently unknown, may also have been playing some funny games with the event's money.

Chicago politics as usual. . . .

LOL

29 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:03:52am

re: #27 Charles

And the scandal is getting even more interesting. Breitbart's own far right blogger Warner Todd Huston notes that TeaCon organizer Steve Stevlic, whose whereabouts are currently unknown, may also have been playing some funny games with the event's money.

Putting the "con" in TeaCon.

30 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:04:07am

re: #26 jaunte

He's upset at her for pointing out that Herman Cain might be a deflection.

“I believe Herman Cain is in this presidential race because he deflects the racism that is inherent in the Republican Party, the conservative movement, the tea party certainly, and the last 30 years, the Republican Party has been moving more and more the right, also race-baiting more, gay-baiting more, religion-baiting more.”

Yeah, that hit a nerve.

31 Atlas Fails  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:05:27am

Maybe Breitbart and his teabagger ilk are growing frustrated, what with the sekrit Mooslim getting another Al Qaeda head and Chris Christie's refusal to save the pathetic 2012 GOP field.

32 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:07:06am

re: #27 Charles

And the scandal is getting even more interesting. Breitbart's own far right blogger Warner Todd Huston notes that TeaCon organizer Steve Stevlic, whose whereabouts are currently unknown, may also have been playing some funny games with the event's money.

Interesting

33 jaunte  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:09:22am

Fiscal responsibility!

34 Lidane  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:14:38am

re: #31 Atlas Fails

Maybe Breitbart and his teabagger ilk are growing frustrated, what with the sekrit Mooslim getting another Al Qaeda head and Chris Christie's refusal to save the pathetic 2012 GOP field.

Pfft. As if Chris Christie would even be acceptable for these people:

35 darthstar  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:15:19am

re: #27 Charles

And the scandal is getting even more interesting. Breitbart's own far right blogger Warner Todd Huston notes that TeaCon organizer Steve Stevlic, whose whereabouts are currently unknown, may also have been playing some funny games with the event's money.

That's the problem with today's conservatives...they don't know how to cover their tracks when they embezzle money.

36 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:16:23am

re: #35 darthstar

That's the problem with today's conservatives...they don't know how to cover their tracks when they embezzle money.

Why? It's Chicago --everyone does it, it's expected. No reason to waste time with cover-ups . . .

:0

37 mr.fusion  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:18:27am

re: #27 Charles

And the scandal is getting even more interesting. Breitbart's own far right blogger Warner Todd Huston notes that TeaCon organizer Steve Stevlic, whose whereabouts are currently unknown, may also have been playing some funny games with the event's money.

It really just goes to show you what a load of BS this whole "Tea Party" nonsense is.......you have a whole movement that bases its beliefs on lies (climate change, tax cuts create jobs, nirth certificates, Agenda 21, etc etc etc), and a whole bunch of politicians and "media" personalities that are more than willing to sell them books, give them radio shows, blogs to click on which reinforce their faith in untruths........all for a small fee of course

What a freaking scam

38 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:20:34am

Laundry calls

bbl

39 darthstar  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:21:51am

re: #36 ggt

Why? It's Chicago --everyone does it, it's expected. No reason to waste time with cover-ups . . .

:0

Ah, yes, Chicago...I knew President Obama was responsible somehow. //

Seriously, these people are some of the laziest grifters this country has ever seen. They take donations from flag-waving casserole makers from Tuscaloosa to Topeka who think they're fighting the evil mooslim in the white house and then they spend all the money going to "conferences" (read: staying at fancy hotels and partying between interviews on CNN)...these people do nothing. They contribute nothing. They're leeches. Andrew Breitbart, for example, couldn't get a job watering plants in the gardening department at Home Depot if he wanted to. He has zero marketable skills.

40 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:26:40am

Hi Lizards!
Andrew sucks..But what's new?
2 hours till I go tailgate at the OU game.. They are playing Ball State tonight.. An Indiana College...I am not wearing Ball State Colors in Oklahoma..Period...
I may be dumb but not stupid..
/I got a Nice OU jersey.. When in Rome and all that other crap..

41 mr.fusion  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:29:54am

re: #39 darthstar

Seriously, these people are some of the laziest grifters this country has ever seen.

I've posted this before, and while the updings were pretty light I can't help but post it again.........

Every time I see these stories about people getting rich off of Bag Nation I think of this song (and character) from this terrible movie from my childhood

42 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:39:25am

Andy is getting himself soiled again hanging out with horny embezzlers...and that's probably just the tip of the dirtburg

43 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:41:46am

Laundry switched
Dishwasher emptied and filled
countertop bleached
fresh coffee made
& one bananna eaten


What have you accomplished today?

:)

44 darthstar  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:42:20am

re: #43 ggt

Laundry switched
Dishwasher emptied and filled
countertop bleached
fresh coffee made
& one bananna eaten

What have you accomplished today?

:)

Ran the dogs, did one load of laundry...about to do the rest of the above minus the banana.

45 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:42:42am

re: #41 mr.fusion

I've posted this before, and while the updings were pretty light I can't help but post it again...

Every time I see these stories about people getting rich off of Bag Nation I think of this song (and character) from this terrible movie from my childhood

[Video]

I loved that movie --well for a while.
Kid's I babysat watched it over and over and over and over.

46 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:43:51am

re: #45 ggt

I loved that movie --well for a while.
Kid's I babysat watched it over and over and over and over.

on betamax

47 Fortitudine  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:45:52am

re: #39 darthstar

Ah, yes, Chicago...I knew President Obama was responsible somehow. //

Seriously, these people are some of the laziest grifters this country has ever seen. They take donations from flag-waving casserole makers from Tuscaloosa to Topeka who think they're fighting the evil mooslim in the white house and then they spend all the money going to "conferences" (read: staying at fancy hotels and partying between interviews on CNN)...these people do nothing. They contribute nothing. They're leeches. Andrew Breitbart, for example, couldn't get a job watering plants in the gardening department at Home Depot if he wanted to. He has zero marketable skills.

I am so going to quote you next time I get an email from one of my tinfoil hat-wearing relatives.

48 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:50:18am

re: #39 darthstar

Ah, yes, Chicago...I knew President Obama was responsible somehow. //

Seriously, these people are some of the laziest grifters this country has ever seen. They take donations from flag-waving casserole makers from Tuscaloosa to Topeka who think they're fighting the evil mooslim in the white house and then they spend all the money going to "conferences" (read: staying at fancy hotels and partying between interviews on CNN)...these people do nothing. They contribute nothing. They're leeches. Andrew Breitbart, for example, couldn't get a job watering plants in the gardening department at Home Depot if he wanted to. He has zero marketable skills.

No, it's just Chicago Politics--always is and always will be.

Nothing to do with Obama.

49 prairiefire  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:50:35am

Andrew sounds like a narcissistic maniac.

50 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:51:03am

re: #49 prairiefire

Andrew sounds like a narcissistic maniac.

You actually listened?

51 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 11:59:33am

I'm off,

Have a great afternoon all!

52 Stanghazi  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:01:25pm

What are the chances of me getting a decent used laptop off of craigslist for 220? Just need wireless capability...

Ugh I know nothing.

53 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:01:34pm

I would post the link to Al Qaeda's latest rag "Inspire no.7", which is dedicated to 9/11.

Plus: a view from the horses' mouth, without denial, debunks CTs.

Minus: terrorist propaganda, distasteful.

What do you think?

54 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:08:50pm

In any case here's Suhail's piece:

There have been plenty of conspiracy theo-ries surrounding the events of 9/11. These conspiracy theorists believe that the U.S. government manufactured the attacks while others believe that it was the Israeli Mossad who was behind them. They site claims such as the Pentagon was not hit by a plane but by a rocket, and that the World Trade center building number seven was brought down by a controlled demolition. The prescribers to these theories have been some scattered individuals here and there who do not posses the research capabili-ties and capacities that are only available to governments. However, there has been one exception: the government of Iran. The Iranian government has professed on the tongue of its president Ahmadinejad that it does not believe that al Qaeda was behind 9/11 but rather, the U.S. govern-ment. So we may ask the question: why would Iran ascribe to such a ridiculous be-lief that stands in the face of all logic and evidence? Since the start of the Iranian revolution, Iran wanted to project an image of anti-Americanism. This would serve as a rally-ing call for the millions of Muslims around

55 SpaceJesus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:09:26pm

Just remember, the reelection of Obama is the ultimate way to troll these fucks

56 mr.fusion  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:09:36pm

re: #45 ggt

I loved that movie --well for a while.
Kid's I babysat watched it over and over and over and over.

haha

Not exactly Disney's best moment....but I probably watched that movie 100 times growing up

57 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:09:46pm

re: #54 Sergey Romanov

the world who despise America for its aggres-sion against them. Iran played this card very well and garnered a lot of support among the Muslims as being the country that is willing to stand up to America. If Iran was genuine in its animosity towards the U.S., it would be pleased to see another entity striking a blow at the Great Satan but that’s not the case. For Iran, anti-Americanism is merely a game of politics. It is anti-America when it suits it and it is a collaborator with the U.S. when it suits it, as we have seen in the shameful assistance Iran gave to the U.S. in its invasion of Afghanistan and in the Shi`a of Iraq, backed by Iran, bringing the American forces into the country and wel-coming them with open arms. Therefore with 9/11, the Iranians saw a great operation that had brought dam-age to the U.S. like nothing they had ever dreamed of causing during their two decades in power. For them, al Qaeda was a competitor for the hearts and minds of the disenfranchised Muslims around the world. Al Qaeda, an organization under fre, with no state, succeeded in what Iran couldn’t. Therefore it was necessary for the Iranians to discredit 9/11 and what better way to do so? Conspiracy theories. Iran and the Shi`a in general do not want to give al Qaeda credit for the greatest and biggest operation ever committed against America because this would expose their lip-service jihad against the Great Satan

Somebody compared this to The Onion piece. Well, no kidding.

58 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:10:24pm

re: #55 SpaceJesus

Just remember, the reelection of Obama is the ultimate way to troll these fucks

It's really a troll or be trolled situation.

59 Varek Raith  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:13:41pm
60 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:18:31pm

Dark Crystal. We had it on tape, and my sisters were riveted.

"Gelflings!!!!"

61 Varek Raith  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:19:35pm

re: #60 EmmmieG

Dark Crystal. We had it on tape, and my sisters were riveted.

"Gelflings!!!"

That was on the other night. Starz or Encore.

62 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:20:27pm

Ohkay, I see no objections and the comment with the link can be deleted anyway at any sec, so:

[Link: www.docstoc.com...]

63 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:27:05pm

re: #61 Varek Raith

That was on the other night. Starz or Encore.

You wonder if the kids ever picked up on the fact that just before the film's action, there had been a horrifying Gelfling genocide.

64 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:29:16pm

re: #15 Charles

And of course, Breitbart's fans post a sickening torrent of misogyny and hate speech:

[Link: www.breitbart.tv...]

I looked at the "Intense Debate" profile of one of the commenters with a familiar nic, and found that he links to his old five-post blog that focuses on LGF and its flouncers and bannings.

65 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:32:14pm

re: #59 Varek Raith

Judge Rules Florida Prison Privatization Unconstitutional
Good.

I was hoping it was something more far-reaching, but it's a start.

66 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:32:41pm

ONOZ ONOZ
SOSHIULISTS OVERTOOKING FREEDOM UM I MEEN FRANSE

[Link: www.france24.com...]

67 jaunte  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:37:22pm

Montana GOPer Fears School Lunch Fraud Is Eating Taxpayer Money

Greedy third graders are ripping us off!

Democrats have enjoyed tweaking Rehberg over his wealth (he’s the 23rd richest member of Congress but recently said he’s “struggling like everyone else”) and with the school lunch comments, they say they’ve caught him headed toward war on the poor like he seemed to declare with his Pell comments.

68 SpaceJesus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:38:36pm

re: #58 Sergey Romanov

pretty much. you can't reason with people like this. the only option is to drive them even crazier.

69 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:38:45pm

Wow, a tear-jerker of the day, via DKos:

"The video reportedly shows 29 year-old Sarah Churman hearing with the benefit of a newly installed implant for the very first time:"

70 Kronocide  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:52:58pm

re: #69 Sergey Romanov

Wow, that's so awesome.

SCIENCE!

71 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:58:17pm

re: #70 BigPapa

Wow, that's so awesome.

SCIENCE!

Are you sure they didn't pray the deaf away?

//Oh, I'm going to hell...

72 laZardo  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:59:29pm

And speaking of TeaCon, I just got back from the Occupy Seattle "planning" event. They're forming various 'committees' of sorts to handle things like logistics, promotion, even first aid.

Should I post pics here as a page, or put up an 'archive'?

73 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:00:39pm

re: #70 BigPapa

Wow, that's so awesome.

SCIENCE!

There's lots of those:

Now I want to see this done for the blind!

74 jaunte  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:01:43pm

Rep. Bachmann missed every House vote in September

Bachmann’s scant voting record complicates her argument on the campaign trail that she is leading the fight against over-spending in Washington. She did not participate in the congressional dispute last month over spending levels for fiscal 2012, and she did not vote on measures to keep the federal government running past Sept. 30.

75 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:02:12pm

re: #74 jaunte

Rep. Bachmann missed every House vote in September

Good thing, or bad thing?

76 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:02:29pm

re: #74 jaunte

She's teh bizzy.

77 TedStriker  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:05:20pm

re: #26 jaunte

He's upset at her for pointing out that Herman Cain might be a deflection.

“I believe Herman Cain is in this presidential race because he deflects the racism that is inherent in the Republican Party, the conservative movement, the tea party certainly, and the last 30 years, the Republican Party has been moving more and more the right, also race-baiting more, gay-baiting more, religion-baiting more.”

I posted something similar in a thread a few days ago; IMO, Cain is only a GOP presidential hopeful precisely because he is black AND rich. If Cain weren't loaded AND hadn't been spewing the RWNJ/TP line since he declared his candidacy, the GOP wouldn't give two shits about him.

/sorry, Herm...when you're square in the middle of a den of vipers, you will eventually get bit

78 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:05:24pm

Here in Connecticut, the Tea Party is pretty quiet. But last weekend on my way into work, there were a bunch of Tea Partiers at an intersection in the town of Southington with signs saying "honk for lower taxes" and some other slogans. They seemed like mostly older people who looked more scared than enthusiastic. I wonder if others have observed that sort of thing. It was sad in a way. I think they were grasping for something to give them hope. But the Tea Party gives me little or no hope. Sad indeed.

79 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:10:01pm

Haha, this is pretty moving

80 Kronocide  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:15:15pm

Quite a morning watching Meytal Cohen and Slayer videos interspersed with cochlear implant videos.

Seeing young children and babies getting them turned on are wonderful enough, but for some reason seeing teen/twentysomethings having them turned on and crying is much more powerful, bringing me to tears.

Maybe a sense that the young don't know the pain and frustration of living without for so long, but the older ones do.

81 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:16:50pm

re: #72 laZardo

And speaking of TeaCon, I just got back from the Occupy Seattle "planning" event. They're forming various 'committees' of sorts to handle things like logistics, promotion, even first aid.

Should I post pics here as a page, or put up an 'archive'?

I'd be interested to see pics. Did you look into who the organizers are and what their agenda is?

82 Stanghazi  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:18:27pm

re: #52 Stanley Sea

What are the chances of me getting a decent used laptop off of craigslist for 220? Just need wireless capability...

Ugh I know nothing.

Chances went well. 200.00 for a clean Compaq with Win7. I'm baaack!!

83 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:19:27pm

re: #67 jaunte

Montana GOPer Fears School Lunch Fraud Is Eating Taxpayer Money

Greedy third graders are ripping us off!

Juxtaposition that degree of concern with the absent concern about private prisons actually ripping us off, and you might get the feeling that their budget hullabaloo is somewhat insincere.

84 laZardo  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:20:56pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

I'd be interested to see pics. Did you look into who the organizers are and what their agenda is?

They insist on being "leaderless" when it comes to the organization as a whole. The primary speaker used to be with Socialist Alternative (she had to start speaking again before I could get why), though there was the usual mix of groups.

As for agendas, they do realize that they don't have a definitive list of demands. To quote, "You can't be against everything, otherwise you can't be for something." They've divided the groups into different committees, as I mentioned, one of them specifically for forming demands. Each of the groups interact with each other and have a 'representative' that meets at the General Assembly circle near the front of the park.

85 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:22:03pm

re: #80 BigPapa

Quite a morning watching Meytal Cohen and Slayer videos interspersed with cochlear implant videos.

Seeing young children and babies getting them turned on are wonderful enough, but for some reason seeing teen/twentysomethings having them turned on and crying is much more powerful, bringing me to tears.

Maybe a sense that the young don't know the pain and frustration of living without for so long, but the older ones do.

Believe it or not, it's controversial.

Cochlear implant technology is a tool for simulating sound in individuals with audiological deafness by inserting a machine into the skull to stimulate the inner ear and allow many sounds to be heard. It does not get rid of the deafness (someone with an implant is still deaf when they take off the outer adapter to sleep or shower, or when it is damaged), but it does allow them to function more fluidly in the hearing world when combined with linguistic and hearing training.

However, many people in the Deaf community (capitalized to distinguish the cultural group that self-identifies with that label from the mere audiological condition of deafness) consider cochlear implant technology an assault on them and their way of life. For them, not hearing is normal and part of who they are; by pushing technology to 'fix' this, mainstream society is in essence providing technology to change who they are or get rid of them. ...

86 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:22:45pm

re: #80 BigPapa

Seeing young children and babies getting them turned on are wonderful enough, but for some reason seeing teen/twentysomethings having them turned on and crying is much more powerful, bringing me to tears.

Maybe a sense that the young don't know the pain and frustration of living without for so long, but the older ones do.

That's basically the reason why I love the parents reacting to their children hearing for the first time.

87 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:25:28pm

re: #84 laZardo

They insist on being "leaderless" when it comes to the organization as a whole. The primary speaker used to be with Socialist Alternative (she had to start speaking again before I could get why), though there was the usual mix of groups.

As for agendas, they do realize that they don't have a definitive list of demands. To quote, "You can't be against everything, otherwise you can't be for something." They've divided the groups into different committees, as I mentioned, one of them specifically for forming demands. Each of the groups interact with each other and have a 'representative' that meets at the General Assembly circle near the front of the park.

Interesting. No surprise about the Socialist Alternative connection. I saw a post on Reddit yesterday claiming to be their list of demands. It was a random laundry list of about 25 items. The usual leftist causes including everything from social welfare projects to denouncing Western Imperialism.

88 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:27:04pm

re: #85 wrenchwench

Believe it or not, it's controversial.

Yeah, I saw that in the YouTube comments. It's kinda like they fear society going all Gattaca on them.

I don't see the problem. Nobody is coercing anyone who cultivated their Deafness and feels comfortable with that into getting implants.

89 laZardo  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:27:40pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

Interesting. No surprise about the Socialist Alternative connection. I saw a post on Reddit yesterday claiming to be their list of demands. It was a random laundry list of about 25 items. The usual leftist causes including everything from social welfare projects to denouncing Western Imperialism.

Mind, she said she left SA.

Anyway, I gotta get some lunch. The pics are saved to my hard drive now, I'll upload them as I get back, and then go back for the afternoon.

90 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:28:15pm

re: #75 EmmmieG

Good thing, or bad thing?

I am sure it translates into smaller government somehow.

91 Gus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:29:07pm

The pigs are about to make a mass arrest on the Brooklyn bridge.

92 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:29:22pm

re: #88 000G

Yeah, I saw that in the YouTube comments. It's kinda like they fear society going all Gattaca on them.

I don't see the problem. Nobody is coercing anyone who cultivated their Deafness and feels comfortable with that into getting implants.

It's sad to think of people feeling their Deaf Culture is being taken away from them because some choose to hear.

93 Gus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:31:10pm

Nice...

[Link: twitpic.com...]

94 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:31:14pm

re: #91 Gus 802

The pigs are about to make a mass arrest on the Brooklyn bridge.

I thought they were protesting bankers. What do they have against bridges?

95 Gus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:31:53pm

re: #94 Killgore Trout

I thought they were protesting bankers. What do they have against bridges?

Baddabing.

96 Gus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:33:35pm

Woot. Looks pretty damn big!

[Link: twitpic.com...]

97 engineer cat  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:34:22pm

Socialist Alternative

that's a very informative name since there's only about 57 definitions of 'socialism' to choose from

98 jaunte  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:34:32pm

[Link: instagr.am...]
“Snapshot of protesters walking on Brooklyn Bridge. Most are staying on OK pedestrian path, but hundreds went into traffic.”

99 Atlas Fails  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:36:00pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

Interesting. No surprise about the Socialist Alternative connection. I saw a post on Reddit yesterday claiming to be their list of demands. It was a random laundry list of about 25 items. The usual leftist causes including everything from social welfare projects to denouncing Western Imperialism.

FREE LEONARD PELTIER!!!!

100 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:37:36pm

re: #92 wrenchwench

It's sad to think of people feeling their Deaf Culture is being taken away from them because some choose to hear.

Well, technically the size of deaf people never experiencing anything quite like hearing will shrink. Hard to imagine deafness completely ever going away as long as there are humans, though.

Anyhow, I don't think preserving any specific culture is worth more than preserving the freedom of individuals to make choices, especially the kinds of choices that provide them with more experience.

That's the liberal in me talking.

101 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:39:20pm

re: #96 Gus 802

Woot. Looks pretty damn big!

[Link: twitpic.com...]

[Link: s3.amazonaws.com...]

Party for Socialism and Liberation

The PSL is a Marxist-Leninist political party, who as its main goal sees the formation of a revolutionary workers' party, based upon the ideology of Marxism.
....
Historically, the PSL is generally positive on the former Soviet Union, describing the October Revolution as "the single biggest event that shaped global politics in the 20th century". The PSL does mention the atrocities committed by Joseph Stalin, and acknowledges that the New Economic Policy of Lenin led "to a re-polarization of social classes, especially in the countryside". The PSL blames the reforms initiated by Mikhail Gorbachev for the fall of the Soviet Union.[4]

The PSL supports the government of Cuba, and while critical of the current Chinese government, it views the Chinese Revolution favorably. The PSL also supports the Bolivarian Revolution in Venezuela – a frequent topic in its magazine. It has endorsed activities that call for the release of the Cuban Five – deemed political prisoners by supporters – and called for the extradition of Luis Posada Carriles from the US.[5]

The PSL supports the rights of nations to self determination. It has been outspoken in condemning the state of Israel and its role in the Middle East. The PSL also led demonstrations against the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in July 2006. The PSL supports the right of return for Palestinian people.

They seem nice.
/Also a sign in that Pic supporting Mumia who killed a police officer over a parking violation, IIRC

102 Atlas Fails  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:39:25pm

re: #97 engineer dog

Socialist Alternative

that's a very informative name since there's only about 57 definitions of 'socialism' to choose from

This is all so confusing. On one hand, I've got the Wall Street protesters telling me they're looking for socialist alternatives to our current system, and on the other I've got the teabaggers telling me that we've actually been a socialist country for the past 75 years. Which set of ideological extremists should I believe?

103 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:40:37pm

re: #101 Killgore Trout

oops. lets try that pic again...
[Link: twitpic.com...]

104 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:41:20pm

re: #98 jaunte

[Link: instagr.am...]
“Snapshot of protesters walking on Brooklyn Bridge. Most are staying on OK pedestrian path, but hundreds went into traffic.”

That's ok, They're Marxists and therefore more important than their fellow citizens.

105 Gus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:42:40pm

re: #103 Killgore Trout

oops. lets try that pic again...
[Link: twitpic.com...]

Just one sign. That doesn't represent everyone there. Unless of course we can judge a group of 2,000 people by one person. Or, 1/2,000 x 100 = 0.05 percent.

106 Gus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:43:29pm

re: #105 Gus 802

Just one sign. That doesn't represent everyone there. Unless of course we can judge a group of 2,000 people by one person. Or, 1/2,000 x 100 = 0.05 percent.

Or 5/100ths of 1 percent. It's a miniscule representation.

Next!

107 jaunte  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:44:20pm

re: #104 Killgore Trout

I hope they're not delaying any ambulances.

108 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:44:56pm

Advocating greater public involvement in the transfer and movement of the capital that is created by and that employs the worker is not a bad cause.

The "Left" has always had a problem with fragmenting - there is no such thing as the unite "Left" and never has been.

109 Gus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:45:18pm

@sevenish sevenish
How many teabaggers, carrying menacing signs & guns to a POTUS appearance, got pepper sprayed or arrested? #OWS #OccupyWallStreet #P2

110 Gus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:45:52pm

Funny to see people go all Sarah Palin over these guys.

111 jaunte  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:45:58pm

Why the bridge?

112 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:47:23pm

re: #106 Gus 802

Or 5/100ths of 1 percent. It's a miniscule representation.

Next!

You're correct. Most of the signs are from the Worker's World Party. They, along with the Bradley Manning supporters from Anon are the main organizers of the protest.

113 jaunte  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:47:49pm

[Link: twitpic.com...]
"View of the walkway crowd above as I almost fall off part of the Brooklyn Bridge"

114 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:48:15pm

Afternoon Hippies Honcos.

115 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:48:53pm

re: #111 jaunte

Why the bridge?

Because it's easier to cause a disruption on the bridge. They do the same thing at protests here in Portland. Bridges are choke points. They will get on to the freeways too if the police let them.

116 lostlakehiker  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:49:37pm

re: #85 wrenchwench

Believe it or not, it's controversial.

Those deaf people have a good point, and it has its counterpart in the sight realm.

I hate people who wear glasses. Being blind beyond 6 inches is simply part of who I am. And devaluing our driving skills is discrimination.

And this whole business of talking as if shortsighted was bad and farsighted was good? It's visionist. Just wait until you need some papers forged or money counterfeited or art works copied and sold as originals. Then we'll see whose eyes are up to the job.

And all these other terms: eagle eyed, visionary, sees clearly, it's just endless. The whole language is culturally biased in favor of the temporarily far-focal of eye.

117 lostlakehiker  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:50:06pm

re: #102 Atlas Fails

This is all so confusing. On one hand, I've got the Wall Street protesters telling me they're looking for socialist alternatives to our current system, and on the other I've got the teabaggers telling me that we've actually been a socialist country for the past 75 years. Which set of ideological extremists should I believe?

Both. Just ask them.

118 jaunte  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:50:31pm

Not really a plan
[Link: twitter.com...]

119 Gus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:50:44pm

[deleted]

120 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:51:53pm

The Paulians are there of course....
[Link: twitpic.com...]

121 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:52:50pm

re: #112 Killgore Trout

You're correct. Most of the signs are from the Worker's World Party. They, along with the Bradley Manning supporters from Anon are the main organizers of the protest.

Bringing this down to "Bradley Manning" types and "WWP" types is a wonderful deflection of the point that Capital is riding roughshod over the people.

People are standing up against the system that is failing, doing themselves no favours by allying with Manning, but heyho, left and right all have their pet causes that get trotted out when they converge on the bigger matters.

This is not a Free Bradley Manning rally, nor is it an Elect a WWP President rally.
The majority of people attending will be content with pressuring Obama to rein in the banks further and stand up to the vested interests intent on protecting the moneyed individuals.

122 Gus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:54:05pm

re: #112 Killgore Trout

You're correct. Most of the signs are from the Worker's World Party. They, along with the Bradley Manning supporters from Anon are the main organizers of the protest.

Whatever you say Archie.

123 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:54:22pm

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

The League for the Fourth International (LFI) is a Trotskyist international organisation, whose most noteworthy section is the Internationalist Group/Grupo Internacionalista in the United States. It has other affiliates in Mexico, Brazil and France. All of these are very small and based in at most one or two cities.[1][2] Like other international Trotskyist groups, it fights for "international socialist revolution, the conquest of power by the working class, led by its Leninist party."

124 Winny Spencer  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:54:24pm

Looks like a rally of communists to me.

125 prairiefire  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:54:49pm

Redstate was hilarious to read yesterday with EE posting multiple "when will Sarah declare?" threads.
"It's still September in Alaska." The Palin supporters wet themselves.

126 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:54:59pm

re: #124 Winny Spencer

Looks like a rally of communists to me.

Main problem with American Communists these days? - drum circles, they do my head in.

127 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:55:46pm

re: #124 Winny Spencer

Looks like a rally of communists to me.

Also - those kids wouldn't know communism if it hit 'em square between the eyeballs like NYPD mace.

128 Gus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:55:56pm

Wow. It's the 101st Fighting Keyboards all over again.

129 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:56:18pm

re: #128 Gus 802

Wow. It's the 101st Fighting Keyboards all over again.

WOLVERINES!

130 Gus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:56:29pm

re: #123 Killgore Trout

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

The League for the Fourth International (LFI) is a Trotskyist international organisation, whose most noteworthy section is the Internationalist Group/Grupo Internacionalista in the United States. It has other affiliates in Mexico, Brazil and France. All of these are very small and based in at most one or two cities.[1][2] Like other international Trotskyist groups, it fights for "international socialist revolution, the conquest of power by the working class, led by its Leninist party."

Wow. You really got their number now!

Funny. You're no different than Andrew Breitbart.

131 Amory Blaine  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:56:33pm

re: #124 Winny Spencer

Looks like a rally of communists to me.

Of course it does.

132 Gus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:56:48pm

Maybe we should waterboard them!

//

133 Gus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:57:17pm

What's that smell? Smells like Old Spice and wingnuts.

134 Atlas Fails  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:58:20pm

re: #133 Gus 802

What's that smell? Smells like Old Spice and wingnuts.

I think Andrew Breitbart may be stalking you.

135 mikec6666  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:58:25pm

Fuck me? No, Fuck You, you Fucking Fuck.

136 Stanghazi  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:58:34pm

All I know is I have a new, fast laptop.

TROTSKY!

& Fuck Wall Street.

137 TedStriker  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:59:21pm

re: #133 Gus 802

What's that smell? Smells like Old Spice and wingnuts.

Hey, I like Old Spice, especially Swagger!!!

///

138 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:59:46pm

Coming this fall to a keyboard near you....

Image: The%20Red%20Menace%20Ad.jpg

139 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 1:59:55pm

re: #133 Gus 802

What's that smell? Smells like Old Spice and wingnuts.

I have no problem saying Fuck Wall Street, but I've always had a problem with calling cops pigs.

OK, you can call me Edith now. Or Meathead.

140 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:00:53pm

Just don't call me Sally Struthers.

*eww*

141 engineer cat  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:00:55pm

re: #137 talon_262

Hey, I like Old Spice, especially Swagger!!!

///

i hear now they have old spice with pirate vowels

142 Winny Spencer  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:01:27pm

re: #91 Gus 802

The pigs are about to make a mass arrest on the Brooklyn bridge.

You must mourn Troy Davis terribly.

143 Gus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:01:56pm

re: #142 Winny Spencer

You must mourn Troy Davis terribly.

Fuck you wingnut.

144 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:03:10pm

Decorum, gents and gals, decorum!

145 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:03:24pm

re: #142 Winny Spencer

You must mourn Troy Davis terribly.

Wow.

STREEEEEETCH

146 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:03:57pm

my, what's all this aggression about?...someone miss their nap?

147 engineer cat  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:04:42pm

re: #91 Gus 802

The pigs are about to make a mass arrest on the Brooklyn bridge.

it seems the only time the media will condescend to take note of these protests is when relations heat up between the protesters and the police

148 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:06:22pm

re: #147 engineer dog

it seems the only time the media will condescend to take note of these protests is when relations heat up between the protesters and the police

The media need conflict - they will show the protestors standing their ground and call them aggressors.
The entire incident of protest needs delegitimised.

149 TedStriker  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:06:38pm

re: #123 Killgore Trout

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

The League for the Fourth International (LFI) is a Trotskyist international organisation, whose most noteworthy section is the Internationalist Group/Grupo Internacionalista in the United States. It has other affiliates in Mexico, Brazil and France. All of these are very small and based in at most one or two cities.[1][2] Like other international Trotskyist groups, it fights for "international socialist revolution, the conquest of power by the working class, led by its Leninist party."

I guar-damn-tee you that, relatively speaking, the hardcore "Leninist/Trotskyite" groups are but a handful of the people involved in the OWS stuff and they certainly not running the show.

Most sane people just aren't down for that flavor of moonbat-ism, just as most are not copacetic with Stormfronters or the Pauls' vision of "libertarianism". Won't stop the fringes from trying to horn in, though...

150 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:06:43pm

re: #147 engineer dog

it seems the only time the media will condescend to take note of these protests is when relations heat up between the protesters and the police

right, otherwise it's not news...ever visited DC?

151 Amory Blaine  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:06:54pm
152 Kronocide  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:07:10pm

WTF is going on here?

153 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:07:38pm

re: #152 BigPapa

WTF is going on here?

a fit is about to be thrown...nothing new

154 Atlas Fails  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:07:42pm

re: #148 wozzablog

The media need conflict - they will show the protestors standing their ground and call them aggressors.
The entire incident of protest needs delegitimised.

Do you mean this particular protest, or mass protest in general?

155 Gus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:08:06pm

I give up.

156 Stanghazi  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:08:09pm

re: #151 Amory Blaine

No mace here.

They are the free ones.

157 engineer cat  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:09:12pm

re: #150 albusteve

right, otherwise it's not news...ever visited DC?

not in a very long time

i take it you mean there are hot and cold running protests there that never make the 6 o'clock news?

158 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:09:49pm

re: #154 Atlas Fails

Do you mean this particular protest, or mass protest in general?

The OWS protests.

Teabaggers will never have their cause seriously challenged by the MSM & the police will always break up a drum circle before confronting loons with signs inciting right wing violence.

159 Atlas Fails  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:10:07pm

re: #149 talon_262

I guar-damn-tee you that, relatively speaking, the hardcore "Leninist/Trotskyite" groups are but a handful of the people involved in the OWS stuff and they certainly not running the show.

Most sane people just aren't down for that flavor of moonbat-ism, just as most are not with Stormfronters or the Pauls' vision on "libertarianism". Won't stop the fringes from trying to horn in, though...

That sounded disturbingly similar to teabggers trying to say their movement isn't racist.

160 TedStriker  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:10:17pm

re: #142 Winny Spencer

WTF, dude?!?

161 Amory Blaine  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:10:59pm
162 jaunte  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:11:09pm

re: #152 BigPapa

The Occupy Wall Street protest is successfully getting more attention by partially blocking a bridge mostly used by people who don't work on Wall Street.

163 Stanghazi  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:11:49pm

I've got to get my shit together to go out & watch College Football. Today's game is at 5. Gators vs. Nick Satan. Not feeling good about going up against Satan.

Oh, and the Miramar air show has started. Loud and wild. Sonic booms. Blue Angels at about 4. Yesterday the freeway stopped while they were flying above. It was amazing and crazy.

Wall Street is really not our friend peeps. Remember the ups and downs of the past weeks? Who won & who lost?

164 Kronocide  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:12:21pm

re: #162 jaunte

The Occupy Wall Street protest is successfully getting more attention by partially blocking a bridge mostly used by people who don't work on Wall Street.

I was wondering what was going on with this Gus/KT/Winny deal.

165 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:12:37pm

re: #157 engineer dog

not in a very long time

i take it you mean there are hot and cold running protests there that never make the 6 o'clock news?

every day...streets shut down, loonies everywhere, motorcades disrupting travel, a zillion tourists...it's routine and DC traffic is a nightmare without all the barricades and cops everywhere

166 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:13:07pm

re: #163 Stanley Sea

'Bama?

167 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:13:21pm

re: #159 Atlas Fails

That sounded disturbingly similar to teabggers trying to say their movement isn't racist.

That's why I'm unfazed by the reaction. This is exactly the same reaction when we started looking into the Tea Party. Exactly the same, the same excuses, the same accusations, the same defense, etc. Nothing new.

168 jaunte  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:13:26pm

re: #164 BigPapa

That, I don't know.

169 Political Atheist  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:13:35pm

re: #112 Killgore Trout

You're correct. Most of the signs are from the Worker's World Party. They, along with the Bradley Manning supporters from Anon are the main organizers of the protest.

Here is the thing-Do we hold them responsible for the signage/rhetoric/fringe as we do the Tea Party? Why the heck not. Fair is fair.

170 Stanghazi  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:13:39pm

re: #166 Cannadian Club Akbar

'Bama?

Yep. Pray for the upset.

171 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:13:43pm

re: #164 BigPapa

I was wondering what was going on with this Gus/KT/Winny deal.

Gus called the cops pigs.

Winny said Gus

172 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:14:05pm

re: #164 BigPapa

I was wondering what was going on with this Gus/KT/Winny deal.

KT dissed the moonbats...now he's a renegade off the rez

173 Atlas Fails  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:14:45pm

re: #158 wozzablog

The OWS protests.

Teabaggers will never have their cause seriously challenged by the MSM & the police will always break up a drum circle before confronting loons with signs inciting right wing violence.

In that case, I agree. I've said it before- genuine protests over real issues with well-defined objectives are great. You won't find a much bigger supporter of the Wisconsin protesters than me. Circle jerks like this OWS thing illicit little more than a yawn from me though, especially given some of the communist/socialist types it's attracting.

174 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:15:02pm

re: #169 Rightwingconspirator

Here is the thing-Do we hold them responsible for the signage/rhetoric/fringe as we do the Tea Party? Why the heck not. Fair is fair.

Call me when you see a Tree of Liberty sign, We Came Unarmed (this time), or If Brown can't fix it a browning can.

175 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:15:29pm

re: #159 Atlas Fails

That sounded disturbingly similar to teabggers trying to say their movement isn't racist.

Problem of all leaderless/anarchist movements: proper exclusion mechanisms.

176 Amory Blaine  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:16:16pm

The wingnuts dismissed protesters in Madison as communists and thugs.

177 Political Atheist  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:17:14pm

re: #174 wozzablog

So far sop good but "NYPD Protects the Rich" was a great start. Does "No Justice No Peace" count if it shows up?

178 Stanghazi  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:17:16pm

re: #176 Amory Blaine

The wingnuts dismissed protesters in Madison as communists and thugs.

The commie thing KILLS ME.

179 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:17:27pm

re: #173 Atlas Fails

In that case, I agree. I've said it before- genuine protests over real issues with well-defined objectives are great. You won't find a much bigger supporter of the Wisconsin protesters than me. Circle jerks like this OWS thing solicit little more than a yawn from me though, especially given some of the communist/socialist types it's attracting.

Um.......*waves* I'm a socialist.................and actual real red blood state should control stuff Socialist. I live in the real world though.

The Left is never organised, they don't have message control, they don't have astro-turfing to anywhere near the same extent. Communists and Socialists OF COURSE will appear at rallys infavour of giving the working schmo a better piece of the pie.

180 Amory Blaine  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:18:28pm

re: #176 Amory Blaine

The wingnuts dismissed protesters in Madison as communists and thugs.

I should say "still dismiss". Their 24 hour lovechats on the radio have the same contempt.

181 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:18:38pm

Answer LA solidarity rally
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

ANSWER characterizes itself as anti-imperialist, and its steering committee consists of socialists, civil rights advocates, and left-wing or progressive organizations from the Muslim, Arab, Palestinian, Filipino, Haitian, and Latin American communities. Many of ANSWER's lead organizers had ties to the International Action Center, and Workers World Party at the time of ANSWER's founding.[3]

ANSWER has faced criticism from other anti-war groups for its affiliations, tactics at demonstrations, and allegedly sectarian approach to joint anti-war work. It also faced criticism from various sources for its claimed anti-Zionist politics

182 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:19:21pm

re: #177 Rightwingconspirator

So far sop good but "NYPD Protects the Rich" was a great start. Does "No Justice No Peace" count if it shows up?

By all means.

183 Atlas Fails  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:19:28pm

re: #176 Amory Blaine

The wingnuts dismissed protesters in Madison as communists and thugs.

That's because they're morons who think everyone to the left of Rick Perry is a communist. All the self-identified communists at OWS make it kind of hard to dispute that at least some of these protesters are loons.

184 Amory Blaine  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:21:03pm

re: #183 Atlas Fails

They may be morons but I'm surrounded by them.

185 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:21:21pm

re: #183 Atlas Fails

That's because they're morons who think everyone to the left of Rick Perry is a communist. All the self-identified communists at OWS make it kind of hard to dispute that at least some of these protesters are loons.

There are loons at every protest about everything, they tend to be the personality type that gets the most worked up about stuff.

186 Gus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:21:46pm

Packing my things. Time to move on.

Thanks for all the fish.

187 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:22:22pm

re: #186 Gus 802

Packing my things. Time to move on.

Thanks for all the fish.

?

188 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:22:27pm

re: #183 Atlas Fails

That's because they're morons who think everyone to the left of Rick Perry is a communist. All the self-identified communists at OWS make it kind of hard to dispute that at least some of these protesters are loons.

The American idea of Socialism slays me, FFS Obamacare being the Socialist end to the free market delieverd millions people more into the arms of the private insurance industry.

189 Gus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:22:51pm

Good luck in all your endeavors. It's been a fun ride for the past 3 years. But I finally decided it's time to stop posting here. So long folks. Have a nice life.

190 Gus  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:23:03pm

re: #187 Cannadian Club Akbar

?

I'm out.

191 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:23:12pm

re: #186 Gus 802

Packing my things. Time to move on.

Thanks for all the fish.

Beware the eddies in the time space continuum my friend.

192 Amory Blaine  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:23:19pm

re: #189 Gus 802

Good luck in all your endeavors. It's been a fun ride for the past 3 years. But I finally decided it's time to stop posting here. So long folks. Have a nice life.

Damn man don't leave.

193 Political Atheist  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:23:20pm

re: #182 wozzablog

By all means.

re: #179 wozzablog

Um...*waves* I'm a socialist...and actual real red blood state should control stuff Socialist. I live in the real world though.

The Left is never organised, they don't have message control, they don't have astro-turfing to anywhere near the same extent. Communists and Socialists OF COURSE will appear at rallys infavour of giving the working schmo a better piece of the pie.

Kudos to someone there for "Creative Resistance Is Peaceful Resistance"

I must say the left is often very well organized in LA & big cities. WTO protests, the May Day rallies in Los Angeles. The DNC back when. They do just fine with the pro Union, Pro Immigration (legal or not) message. Union organized and backed. Not that I'm saying that is a bad thing. Not at all. But it is well organized and funded.

194 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:23:31pm

re: #188 wozzablog

Taxation is Bolshevism!

195 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:24:22pm

re: #190 Gus 802

I'm out.

Please check back, man. at your leisure.

196 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:24:31pm

re: #186 Gus 802

Hey, I didn't leave over you tearing into me over the WikiLeaks stuff.

197 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:24:41pm

He looks like a 'whacky' TV actor making 'edgy jokes' about blacks/jews/gays.

198 Atlas Fails  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:24:47pm

re: #179 wozzablog

Um...*waves* I'm a socialist...and actual real red blood state should control stuff Socialist. I live in the real world though.

The Left is never organised, they don't have message control, they don't have astro-turfing to anywhere near the same extent. Communists and Socialists OF COURSE will appear at rallys infavour of giving the working schmo a better piece of the pie.

Huh, I never would have pegged you for a socialist. Probably a bad idea for me to lump you in with communists and anarchists like I did. I actually went through a little socialist phase of my own before becoming a supporter of regulated capitalism (which, to all you wingnuts out there, is not an oxymoron). I still stand by my original point though: OWS is a great place for moonbats to feel like they're making a difference, when in reality all they're doing is embarrassing sane progressives.

199 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:25:46pm

re: #167 Killgore Trout

That's why I'm unfazed by the reaction. This is exactly the same reaction when we started looking into the Tea Party. Exactly the same, the same excuses, the same accusations, the same defense, etc. Nothing new.

Wake me when the Democrats start kowtowing to these people, speaking at their events, forming legislative caucuses around their ideology, showing up at their debates, etc. The Tea Party was noteworthy because while they pretended to be a grassroots movement in reality they were a GOP rebranding effort that the Republicans wholeheartedly embraced.

200 Stanghazi  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:25:56pm

Good luck finding a blog similar to this one. Doesn't exist. Well, I looked during the flotilla and came up flat. Scroll is your friend.

OK, I'm off for chicken wings. Don't worry though, now that I've finally got a laptop I'll be piping in a lot more.re: #197 windsagio

windy - email me.

201 Atlas Fails  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:26:49pm

re: #188 wozzablog

The American idea of Socialism slays me, FFS Obamacare being the Socialist end to the free market delieverd millions people more into the arms of the private insurance industry.

Personally, I'm a huge proponent of a public option, but given the clout of the insurance lobby, I'll settle for Obamacare.

202 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:26:55pm

re: #200 Stanley Sea

will do!

203 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:27:08pm

re: #198 Atlas Fails

Huh, I never would have pegged you for a socialist. Probably a bad idea for me to lump you in with communists and anarchists like I did. I actually went through a little socialist phase of my own before becoming a supporter of regulated capitalism (which, to all you wingnuts out there, is not an oxymoron). I still stand by my original point though: OWS is a great place for moonbats to feel like they're making a difference, when in reality all they're doing is embarrassing sane progressives.

I'm an ideal world Socialist.
In an ideal world the state would run the means of production perfectly and all citizens would get a decent chunk of the pie.

This is not an ideal world, we just have to temper the excesses of the monstrosity that is capitalism weighted for the top 1%.

204 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:27:35pm

re: #201 Atlas Fails

I started out as a 'its a step in the right direction anyways/fuck the Blue Dogs' kind of guy, but I do worry sometimes >>

205 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:27:54pm

re: #198 Atlas Fails

What are you, some kind of ordoliberal?

206 jaunte  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:28:39pm
[Link: gothamist.com...]

Brian Stelter: We're seeing reports on Twitter that protesters from Occupy Wall Street have marched down to the Brooklyn Bridge, and hundreds of people have begun to stream into traffic lanes, completely stopping traffic on the bridge. According to NY Times reporter Brian Stelter on the scene, "Scratch that: a LARGE # of protesters are in lanes of traffic. Traffic out of Manhattan is now completely stopped."

207 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:29:07pm

re: #199 goddamnedfrank

Wake me when the Democrats start kowtowing to these people, speaking at their events, forming legislative caucuses around their ideology, showing up at their debates, etc. The Tea Party was noteworthy because while they pretended to be a grassroots movement in reality they were a GOP rebranding effort that the Republicans wholeheartedly embraced.

ding ding ding.

When Obama's direct subordinates start showing up at WWP dinners, and high profile Democrats start calling for the bringing under public ownership of all enterprise - then there will be equivalence with the sway the Teappers have in the GOP.

208 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:29:07pm

re: #206 jaunte

linky no worky

209 BishopX  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:29:50pm

re: #198 Atlas Fails

Huh, I never would have pegged you for a socialist. Probably a bad idea for me to lump you in with communists and anarchists like I did. I actually went through a little socialist phase of my own before becoming a supporter of regulated capitalism (which, to all you wingnuts out there, is not an oxymoron). I still stand by my original point though: OWS is a great place for moonbats to feel like they're making a difference, when in reality all they're doing is embarrassing sane progressives.

These protests will make a difference by radicalizing people. No one in power is going to listen to a couple of thousand people in the streets. Their demands will get no where. What will happen is people will see them, and assuming the protesters have their shit together, sympathize with them more than they sympathize with the response they engender. These things create change by building a movement, rather than presenting a list of demands.

210 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:30:02pm

re: #199 goddamnedfrank

Wake me when the Democrats start kowtowing to these people, speaking at their events, forming legislative caucuses around their ideology, showing up at their debates, etc. The Tea Party was noteworthy because while they pretended to be a grassroots movement in reality they were a GOP rebranding effort that the Republicans wholeheartedly embraced.

I don't think there's much chance of that, the Dems are mostly smarter that to get involved with Lennist-Marxist groups. Hopefully these protests will pass soon but they're getting a lot of support from left wing blogs and MSNBC. The Dem base really wants to embrace this as a movement and if it persists it will cost Obama votes. Both from his base but it's going to scare away moderates.

211 TedStriker  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:30:04pm

re: #159 Atlas Fails

That sounded disturbingly similar to teabggers trying to say their movement isn't racist.

You did notice where I said "sane people", right? Fox News, Limbaugh, the RWNJ noise machine/blogosphere, and RWNJ astroturfers (such the Koch brothers and the fossil fuel interests) and Bible-thumpers have their tendrils running all through the TPGOP, selling to a willing audience who either doesn't know better (by choice or not) or doesn't care that they're being sold a bill of goods. Somehow, I dont think that WCW, ANSWER, WWP, LFI, or any other hardcore leftie groups are getting anywhere near the same traction with the people in the "mainstream" (by far, the largest group of voters) as their RWNJ counterparts

Prove me wrong and I'll eat my hat...

212 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:30:50pm

re: #209 BishopX

Well you've gotta break through the ennui you know?

213 jaunte  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:31:00pm

re: #208 000G

Sorry, how about this one: [Link: gothamist.com...]

214 BishopX  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:32:20pm

re: #189 Gus 802

Good luck in all your endeavors. It's been a fun ride for the past 3 years. But I finally decided it's time to stop posting here. So long folks. Have a nice life.

It's been great having you here. You've been one of the most dogged and consistently excellent posters I've ever seen. I hope Denver works out for you.

215 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:33:35pm

re: #210 Killgore Trout

I don't think there's much chance of that, the Dems are mostly smarter that to get involved with Lennist-Marxist groups. Hopefully these protests will pass soon but they're getting a lot of support from left wing blogs and MSNBC. The Dem base really wants to embrace this as a movement and if it persists it will cost Obama votes. Both from his base but it's going to scare away moderates.

If the middle america that is getting screwed royal by the enablers of the corporate tax breaks and tax REBATES to oil companies doesn't know that these people are on their side, it's the fault of American history's crass sensationalism of anything to the left of Rick Perrys left buttcheek.

216 TedStriker  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:33:57pm

re: #186 Gus 802

You flounced...over this? I thought you were made of sterner stuff that that...

/busting balls

Seriously, don't be getting all like this...just walk away and come back at your leisure. Just take a breather; if you decide that LGF is not where you want to be, just walk away and stay gone. I think it's a shame though, because I think you're good people.

217 Atlas Fails  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:34:03pm

re: #205 000G

What are you, some kind of ordoliberal?

Ummm...I don't think so?

218 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:34:50pm

re: #189 Gus 802

Good luck in all your endeavors. It's been a fun ride for the past 3 years. But I finally decided it's time to stop posting here. So long folks. Have a nice life.

Didn't know you are headed to denver - it is awesome. Have a great life dude.

219 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:35:15pm
220 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:35:54pm

you guys still don't know how to deal with flounces:

either ignore or say 'see you tomorrow!'

221 lostlakehiker  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:37:21pm

re: #121 wozzablog

Bringing this down to "Bradley Manning" types and "WWP" types is a wonderful deflection of the point that Capital is riding roughshod over the people.

People are standing up against the system that is failing, doing themselves no favours by allying with Manning, but heyho, left and right all have their pet causes that get trotted out when they converge on the bigger matters.

This is not a Free Bradley Manning rally, nor is it an Elect a WWP President rally.
The majority of people attending will be content with pressuring Obama to rein in the banks further and stand up to the vested interests intent on protecting the moneyed individuals.

How does somebody get to be a moneyed individual?

222 Atlas Fails  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:37:33pm

re: #211 talon_262

You did notice where I said "sane people", right? Fox News, Limbaugh, the RWNJ noise machine/blogosphere, and RWNJ astroturfers (such the Koch brothers and the fossil fuel interests) and Bible-thumpers have their tendrils running all through the TPGOP, selling to a willing audience who either doesn't know better (by choice or not) or doesn't care that they're being sold a bill of goods. Somehow, I dont think that WCW, ANSWER, WWP, LFI, or any other hardcore leftie groups are getting anywhere near the same traction with the people in the "mainstream" (by far, the largest group of voters) as their RWNJ counterparts

Prove me wrong and I'll eat my hat...

I never said that radical groups like that have any influence in the Democratic party or mainstream liberalism, especially compared to influence wingnuts have in the GOP, but that doesn't mean that they don't make up a sizable portion of OWS.

223 lostlakehiker  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:40:20pm

re: #179 wozzablog

Um...*waves* I'm a socialist...and actual real red blood state should control stuff Socialist. I live in the real world though.

The Left is never organised, they don't have message control, they don't have astro-turfing to anywhere near the same extent. Communists and Socialists OF COURSE will appear at rallys infavour of giving the working schmo a better piece of the pie.

The working schmo didn't get much of the pie in the Soviet Union, or Cambodia, or other Socialist States.

224 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:40:21pm

a mad scramble of disassociation...kewl!

225 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:40:45pm

re: #221 lostlakehiker

How does somebody get to be a moneyed individual?

If you ever find out please tell me.

Read it carefully - i'm not against moneyed individuals. I want everyone to have a fair to middling chance of becoming one and i want them to pay their fair share.......... It's the current protection these people are being given by teabaggers and right wing democrats that I'm annoyed about.

People who do not have the resources of the top 1% are giving their time and money to defending the top 1%.

The top 1% largely vote democratic and are trying to eschew these protections.

226 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:41:14pm

re: #223 lostlakehiker

The working schmo didn't get much of the pie in the Soviet Union, or Cambodia, or other Socialist States.

The problem wasn't how much of the pie but the size of the pie in total.

227 bratwurst  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:41:35pm

As a wise man once said:

"Save the drama for your mama!"

228 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:42:06pm

re: #225 wozzablog

The problem is the Joe the Plumber effect.

People seem to have these fantasies that they're magically gonna become part of the ultra-rich and act in selfish self-interest based on the fantasy

229 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:42:29pm

re: #223 lostlakehiker

The working schmo didn't get much of the pie in the Soviet Union, or Cambodia, or other Socialist States.

They were communist states.

I'm not a communist.

Using the terms interchangeably is like interchanging fascist and conservative. And none of the Conservatives on this board likes that.

230 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:44:05pm

re: #229 wozzablog

heh wouldn't it be nice to have the German economy right now? Or the Danish one for that matter!

231 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:44:21pm

re: #229 wozzablog

They were communist states.

I'm not a communist.

Using the terms interchangeably is like interchanging fascist and conservative. And none of the Conservatives on this board likes that.

Funny thing is that communists call those states socialist and not communist.

232 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:45:09pm

bbiab

233 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:45:36pm

re: #229 wozzablog

They were communist states.

I'm not a communist.

Using the terms interchangeably is like interchanging fascist and conservative. And none of the Conservatives on this board likes that.

Communism is repression, Socialism reveres the equality of all races, ethnicitys and genders.
Communism is a brutal system of enforced conformity.

234 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:45:48pm

re: #231 000G

Well again, socialist by our standards means Northern Europe... and they're doing the best of anyone right now, excluding places like ... China?

235 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:46:29pm

re: #189 Gus 802

Good luck in all your endeavors. It's been a fun ride for the past 3 years. But I finally decided it's time to stop posting here. So long folks. Have a nice life.

Uh, OK. Sorry to see this. But good luck to you too.

236 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:47:07pm

re: #231 000G

Funny thing is that communists call those states socialist and not communist.

Communists say a lot of things.

A compromise term emerged "Deformed Worker States".

I prefer clusterfuck.

237 engineer cat  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:47:48pm

re: #223 lostlakehiker

The working schmo didn't get much of the pie in the Soviet Union, or Cambodia, or other Socialist States.

the strict definition of socialism involves the government owning and operating all major industries. the working definition of socialism includes any action that a government might take to help people, including national pension (social security in this country) schemes and medical insurance support, up to and including the act of using taxes to build roads. this last definition of socialism - very popular these days - describes almost any government you might care to name starting with the sumerian and egyptian states of the 3 millennium bc and including the roman empire

i object to any policy where the state does something to improve society being linked to some failed state like the soviet union

all countries are different and have different histories, and all government programs are different, complicated, and are likely to have good and bad parts

/ rant off

238 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:48:02pm

re: #215 wozzablog

If the middle america that is getting screwed royal by the enablers of the corporate tax breaks and tax REBATES to oil companies doesn't know that these people are on their side, it's the fault of American history's crass sensationalism of anything to the left of Rick Perrys left buttcheek.

Marxism, Troskiites, and Leninists are never going to become mainstream in America. It's just never going to happen.

239 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:49:02pm

re: #234 windsagio

Well again, socialist by our standards means Northern Europe... and they're doing the best of anyone right now, excluding places like ... China?

Dunno what you mean by "our". I am from Germany.

In Marxist theory (which virtually all communism relies upon), socialism is a transitory stage in which the proletariat has taken over the power towards communism in which the classless society has been realized.

240 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:49:22pm

re: #235 Charles

Uh, OK. Sorry to see this. But good luck to you too.

He's quite a loss to LGF. One of the most valuable lizards in recent memory.

241 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:50:11pm

re: #230 windsagio

heh wouldn't it be nice to have the German economy right now? Or the Danish one for that matter!

Agreed.

More Government not less in those states helped tremendously.

Higher average wages = more income for working people to pump into the economy.
America has a depressed wage structure at the behest of the Boss class, and low and behold - when they need the poorest to spur demand in the economy the poor have NO FUCKING MONEY.

242 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:50:36pm

re: #239 000G

but I'm sure we can agree that Marxist theory is crap :p

and I say 'our' because the vast majority of people on here are from the US.

*and I notice that you're not denying I'm right about the northern European economies ;)

243 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:50:41pm

re: #236 wozzablog

A compromise term emerged "Deformed Worker States"

Heh, Trotsky-snark.

Not a communist myself. But what tradition of socialism do you subscribe to, if not marxist?

244 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:51:45pm

re: #242 windsagio

I don't even know what you mean by "Northern Europe". Scandinavia + UK?

245 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:52:34pm

re: #241 wozzablog

The sad thing is that people in this debate always want to treat it as a binary (which NO country does, altho the bagger nutbars think they want a pure capitalist state).

Some places without the weird deforming forces at work in the US are starting to actually reach the proper capitalist/socialist balance. The US probably never will, unfortunately.

246 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:53:16pm

re: #241 wozzablog

More Government not less in those states helped tremendously.

Well, it's balanced out by the EU level policies being basically an anarchic/despotic clusterfuck.

247 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:53:30pm

re: #244 000G

It's generally considered to mean France+Germany+Scandanavia. The UK is often treated differently, and Poland and the Baltics are 'Eastern Europe'.

Edit: Also things like Benelux of course.

I thought it was pretty common useage :p

248 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:53:31pm

re: #238 Killgore Trout

Marxism, Troskiites, and Leninists are never going to become mainstream in America. It's just never going to happen.

They aren't mainstream in the UK or Germany particularly, Germanys leftist parties are shells of their old ideological selves but the economy is ticking over fairly nicely.

The UK doesn't have a Marxist/Leninist/Trot party in Parliament.

It doesn't even have to boil down to what are now far left politics, the American center is skewed do far right that a couple of degrees left would help tremendously and you would still be exceptionally right wing by European standards - everybody wins.

249 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:54:09pm

re: #233 wozzablog

Communism is repression, Socialism reveres the equality of all races, ethnicitys and genders.
Communism is a brutal system of enforced conformity.

What do you think East Germany was?

250 engineer cat  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:55:00pm

re: #230 windsagio

heh wouldn't it be nice to have the German economy right now? Or the Danish one for that matter!

'socialist' government pension and national health insurance schemes in germany got underway in the 1880s under bismark, who would have thrown you out of his office if you called him a socialist

because of their comprehensive social insurance, including "free" tuition at major universities (your taxes pay for it, so when it comes time to get a university education it has already been paid for), i have been listening to conservatives predict the imminent demise of the german economy within ten years

it's been 40 years now since i first heard this prediction

251 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:55:09pm

re: #249 000G

Why don't you tell us what you believe instead of this string of questions? :p

252 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:55:37pm

re: #247 windsagio

It's generally considered to mean France+Germany+Scandanavia. The UK is often treated differently, and Poland and the Baltics are 'Eastern Europe'.

I thought it was pretty common useage :p

Uh, no. France and Germany are Western Europe (or Central Europe, if you prefer counting Spain and Portugal as Western Europe instead of Southern Europe).

253 Varek Raith  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:55:37pm

re: #251 windsagio

Why don't you tell us what you believe instead of this string of questions? :p

Commie.
:P

254 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:55:51pm

re: #251 windsagio

Why don't you tell us what you believe instead of this string of questions? :p

Believe in regards to what?

255 engineer cat  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:55:51pm

re: #236 wozzablog

A compromise term emerged "Deformed Worker States".

heh

256 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:57:01pm

re: #242 windsagio

but I'm sure we can agree that Marxist theory is crap :p

Read.
[Link: blogs.hbr.org...]

257 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:57:41pm

re: #254 000G

Ok good response :p

Anything really though, if you're from Germany (not that I doubt you), you're in a perfect position to tell us if the German or even the Danish or Norwegian economies, which are pretty damn socialist, are doing well.

The constant pseudo-socratic questioning tactic is a bit of a rhetorical trick, and not one I'm fond of.

258 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:58:36pm

re: #249 000G

What do you think East Germany was?

A Soviet satellite with a smidge more control over it's internal affairs than places like Estonia.

259 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:58:37pm

re: #250 engineer dog

bismark, who would have thrown you out of his office if you called him a socialist

Heh. Yeah.

In hindsight, you could almost call Bismarck a proto-Social Democrat: Give the masses enough bones so they do not become commies, basically.

260 Varek Raith  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:58:43pm

re: #257 windsagio

Ok good response :p

Anything really though, if you're from Germany (not that I doubt you), you're in a perfect position to tell us if the German or even the Danish or Norwegian economies, which are pretty damn socialist, are doing well.

The constant pseudo-socratic questioning tactic is a bit of a rhetorical trick, and not one I'm fond of.

You're not?

261 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:59:09pm

re: #257 windsagio

Anything really though, if you're from Germany (not that I doubt you), you're in a perfect position to tell us if the German or even the Danish or Norwegian economies, which are pretty damn socialist, are doing well.

Doing well for whom?

262 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 2:59:57pm

re: #256 wozzablog

Read.
[Link: blogs.hbr.org...]

WUB and I have this discussion sometimes, its essentially 'can change happen without serious social discord (which we mostly-jokingly call 'the Revolution)?' and 'can the Revolution even happen now?'

263 jaunte  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:02:05pm

NYT, Ginia Bellafante:

Every Action Produces Overreaction

"...Occupy Wall Street, the ideologically vague and strategically baffling effort to redress social inequities..."
...
The New York Police Department could not have intended to operate as a public relations arm for Occupy Wall Street, but its invidious treatment of the demonstrators last weekend went a tremendous way toward galvanizing sympathy for the group’s good but porous intentions.

264 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:02:26pm

re: #239 000G

Dunno what you mean by "our". I am from Germany.

In Marxist theory (which virtually all communism relies upon), socialism is a transitory stage in which the proletariat has taken over the power towards communism in which the classless society has been realized.

Marx would have been horrified by what the USSR became.

He said in his lifetime after seeing what people had done with his work that he himself was no Marxist.

Communism as exhibited in the states mentioned was not a result of the transitive stage of Socialism.

265 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:03:00pm

re: #262 windsagio

WUB and I have this discussion sometimes, its essentially 'can change happen without serious social discord (which we mostly-jokingly call 'the Revolution)?' and 'can the Revolution even happen now?'

Who knows, because it won't be televised.

266 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:03:36pm

re: #265 wozzablog

oldie but goodie :p

267 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:03:56pm

re: #261 000G

Doing well for whom?

Really?
Hows about.......
Life expentency, GDP, average wage, living standards?...........

268 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:04:24pm

re: #256 wozzablog

Read.
[Link: blogs.hbr.org...]

Heh.

Commodity fetishism.

I wrote a paper on that. Professor liked it so much he kept it.

Property is theft!

Theft of property is also theft!

269 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:05:12pm

re: #268 wrenchwench

Heh.

I wrote a paper on that. Professor liked it so much he kept it.

Property is theft!

Theft of property is also theft!

Communists are coffee drinkers, because all proper tea is theft.

270 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:05:37pm

re: #269 wozzablog

one step too far man, one step too far :(

271 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:05:42pm

re: #265 wozzablog

Who knows, because it won't be televised.

It will be Tweeted.

272 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:06:22pm

re: #264 wozzablog

Not really interested in Marx as a person.

But as for the theory, it seriously lacks in political analysis of the state. Base/superstructure theory makes every modern institution into a conspiracy against the proletariat, insane. "Withering away of the state" theory assumes completely ridiculous notions of social progress.

And that's not to speak of the economical analysis. Oh boy, what a bunch of crap.

Basically, I do not think there is a "correct" understanding of Marxism that could ever have worked. And I am not speaking from a cold-war anti-communist perspective, either.

273 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:07:08pm

re: #267 wozzablog

Really?
Hows about...
Life expentency, GDP, average wage, living standards?...

Well, those are facts easily obtained on the 'net. Don't need personal experience from a German for that.

274 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:08:14pm

re: #268 wrenchwench

Heh.

I wrote a paper on that. Professor liked it so much he kept it.

Property is theft!

Theft of property is also theft!

Proudhon'ed!

275 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:09:15pm

we are now, at this very minute, enduring a revolution...just not a shooting war...life choking partisanship, dysfunctional govt and an economy set to topple any moment...BUT!
DWTS is hauling in the ratings

276 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:11:45pm

re: #275 albusteve

I'd say a revolution has to be more populist, we're still dealing with that damn Corporatist Coup tho'

277 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:13:36pm

re: #276 windsagio

I'd say a revolution has to be more populist, we're still dealing with that damn Corporatist Coup tho'

record numbers of citizens are fed up with govt...that's populist

278 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:14:23pm

re: #272 000G

Not really interested in Marx as a person.

But as for the theory, it seriously lacks in political analysis of the state. Base/superstructure theory makes every modern institution into a conspiracy against the proletariat, insane. "Withering away of the state" theory assumes completely ridiculous notions of social progress.

And that's not to speak of the economical analysis. Oh boy, what a bunch of crap.

Basically, I do not think there is a "correct" understanding of Marxism that could ever have worked. And I am not speaking from a cold-war anti-communist perspective, either.

Marx is buried a couple of miles from my front door. We are never going to agree on this.

I would point to this link again though to see what I think better than I can express it.
[Link: blogs.hbr.org...]

279 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:14:47pm

re: #238 Killgore Trout

Marxism, Troskiites, and Leninists are never going to become mainstream in America. It's just never going to happen.

It would be nice if that opposition was based on meaningful analysis of those political philosophies as opposed to a Cold-War atavist "hiss and boo at the pantomime villain" reflex.

But then again, most people don't grasp the economic-philosophical roots of capitalism, and basically use the word to mean "the status quo in the US." Indeed, the people who are the loudest about capitalism are the ones who want to tear out the pages of Wealth of Nations that deal with the merits of regulation and the state preventing pursuit of profit from stamping on common folk.

280 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:16:50pm

re: #279 The Ghost of a Flea

It would be nice if that opposition was based on meaningful analysis of those political philosophies as opposed to a Cold-War atavist "hiss and boo at the pantomime villain" reflex.

But then again, most people don't grasp the economic-philosophical roots of capitalism, and basically use the word to mean "the status quo in the US." Indeed, the people who are the loudest about capitalism are the ones who want to tear out the pages of Wealth of Nations that deal with the merits of regulation and the state preventing pursuit of profit from stamping on common folk.

Adam Smith was a filthy communistic socialist leninist by modern standards of American economic discourse.

281 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:17:51pm

re: #277 albusteve

they're not the ones doing anything. Most of the real loud complaints are essentially astroturfed for the benefit of the elites (read: TP and religious cons).

282 jaunte  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:18:33pm

Nick Kristoff has some ideas for the OccupyWallStreet protestors

...We’ve seen that inadequately regulated, too-big-to-fail banks can undermine the public interest rather than serve it — and in the last few years, banks got away with murder. It’s infuriating to see bankers who were rescued by taxpayers now moan about regulations intended to prevent the next bail-out. And it’s important that protesters spotlight rising inequality: does it feel right to anyone that the top 1 percent of Americans now possess a greater collective net worth than the entire bottom 90 percent?

So for those who want to channel their amorphous frustration into practical demands, here are several specific suggestions: [Link: www.nytimes.com...]

283 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:19:10pm

I'm not surprised the Chicago Tea Party has major misappropriation problems. Chicago Democrats have long had such problems and back when Chicago had a functioning branch of the GOP, the Republicans did as well. Sadly, this type of corruption is so common in the Windy City that it is often simply known as "The Chicago Way".

284 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:19:10pm

re: #281 windsagio

they're not the ones doing anything. Most of the real loud complaints are essentially astroturfed for the benefit of the elites (read: TP and religious cons).

80 some seats turned over in the House is nothing...got it

285 Atlas Fails  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:20:09pm

re: #277 albusteve

record numbers of citizens are fed up with govt...that's populist

But for radically different reasons. Progressives think the government is dysfunctional and run by corporate lobbyists, conservatives think it's too bloated and powerful, and a lot of non-political folks have taken up a cynical, all politicians are corrupt mindset. Not the climate for revolution.

286 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:20:29pm

re: #221 lostlakehiker

How does somebody get to be a moneyed individual?

Own a bank, or rob a bank.

287 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:20:47pm

re: #159 Atlas Fails

That sounded disturbingly similar to teabggers trying to say their movement isn't racist.

After I watched the anti-war protests in San Francisco be taken over by the likes of International ANSWER, you know what? I don't trust people running around playing 'change the system' until they prove they've got something on the ball.

If this makes me the 101st Chairborne, so be it.

288 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:20:49pm

re: #283 Dark_Falcon

I'm not surprised the Chicago Tea Party has major misappropriation problems. Chicago Democrats have long had such problems and back when Chicago had a functioning branch of the GOP, the Republicans did as well. Sadly, this type of corruption is so common in the Windy City that it is often simply known as "The Chicago Way".

Mayor Daley...
'the city that works'
but that was then

289 jaunte  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:21:00pm

re: #286 Decatur Deb

Sutton wealth!

290 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:21:03pm

re: #284 albusteve

it's not 'nothing', of course, but you have no idea what 'revolution means' it seems like :p

291 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:22:32pm

re: #283 Dark_Falcon

in with the requisite 'the Democrats do it too!!!' I see ><

292 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:23:17pm

I go work today and when I come back I see a lizard flounced and some nuts closed the Brooklyn Bridge. Is there a full moon tonight?

293 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:23:31pm

re: #285 Atlas Fails

But for radically different reasons. Progressives think the government is dysfunctional and run by corporate lobbyists, conservatives think it's too bloated and powerful, and a lot of non-political folks have taken up a cynical, all politicians are corrupt mindset. Not the climate for revolution.

when you look at a banana, do you see an orange?

294 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:23:37pm

re: #181 Killgore Trout

Answer LA solidarity rally
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

ANSWER characterizes itself as anti-imperialist, and its steering committee consists of socialists, civil rights advocates, and left-wing or progressive organizations from the Muslim, Arab, Palestinian, Filipino, Haitian, and Latin American communities. Many of ANSWER's lead organizers had ties to the International Action Center, and Workers World Party at the time of ANSWER's founding.[3]

ANSWER has faced criticism from other anti-war groups for its affiliations, tactics at demonstrations, and allegedly sectarian approach to joint anti-war work. It also faced criticism from various sources for its claimed anti-Zionist politics

They refused to let Rabbi Michael Lerner speak at one of their demos.

295 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:23:47pm

re: #284 albusteve

80 some seats turned over in the House is nothing...got it

Exactly as revolutionary as an ad campaign that makes you buy a product a few times, then realize it doesn't live up to the hype.

296 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:24:02pm

re: #279 The Ghost of a Flea

It would be nice if that opposition was based on meaningful analysis of those political philosophies as opposed to a Cold-War atavist "hiss and boo at the pantomime villain" reflex.

But then again, most people don't grasp the economic-philosophical roots of capitalism, and basically use the word to mean "the status quo in the US." Indeed, the people who are the loudest about capitalism are the ones who want to tear out the pages of Wealth of Nations that deal with the merits of regulation and the state preventing pursuit of profit from stamping on common folk.

The problem is that grasping the philosophical roots of a major concept is Teh Hard. It means turning off the TV and Xbox and spending hours reading. Most people don't have the patience or interest to do it.

297 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:24:18pm

re: #278 wozzablog

Marx is buried a couple of miles from my front door. We are never going to agree on this.

I would point to this link again though to see what I think better than I can express it.
[Link: blogs.hbr.org...]

Guy is not even clear on terms like profit. Waste of time, IMHO.

Marx always gets short-term boosts of popular in academic circles during economic crises. Nothing new... Just a symptom of the academic malaise when it comes to economics.

298 windsagio  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:24:28pm

re: #295 The Ghost of a Flea

But they SAID it was a Revolution!!!!

299 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:25:01pm

re: #292 NJDhockeyfan

I go work today and when I come back I see a lizard flounced and some nuts closed the Brooklyn Bridge. Is there a full moon tonight?

Who Flounced?

300 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:25:14pm

re: #297 000G

Guy is not even clear on terms like profit. Waste of time, IMHO.

Marx always gets short-term boosts of popular in academic circles during economic crises. Nothing new... Just a symptom of the academic malaise when it comes to economics.

Cool beans.

301 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:25:35pm

re: #299 Dark_Falcon

Who Flounced?

Gus has left.

302 Atlas Fails  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:26:13pm

re: #293 albusteve

when you look at a banana, do you see an orange?

Put it this way- when one group is pissed at the government for doing too little, another is pissed at it for doing too much, and yet another is pissed because they dislike politics in general, an uprising in probably not on the horizon.

303 TedStriker  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:26:16pm

re: #299 Dark_Falcon

Who Flounced?

Gus, unfortunately...

304 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:26:24pm

re: #280 wozzablog

Adam Smith was a filthy communistic socialist leninist by modern standards of American economic discourse.

Well, sort of. Wingnuts use the same logic to claim that racism doesn't exist anymore and has lost all meaning because the lefties overuse accusations of racism.There is real racism and there are real Marxists in spite of the fact that some people misuse or abuse the terms.

305 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:26:33pm

re: #294 SanFranciscoZionist

They refused to let Rabbi Michael Lerner speak at one of their demos.

ANSWER can FOAD. They are just a bunch of Marxists and Israel-Haters.

306 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:26:40pm

re: #283 Dark_Falcon

I'm not surprised the Chicago Tea Party has major misappropriation problems. Chicago Democrats have long had such problems and back when Chicago had a functioning branch of the GOP, the Republicans did as well. Sadly, this type of corruption is so common in the Windy City that it is often simply known as "The Chicago Way".

Maybe it's in the lake water.

307 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:26:41pm

G'night folks.

May your chosen deity not snatch you in the dead of night.

308 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:26:46pm

re: #286 Decatur Deb

Own a bank, or rob a bank.

Heh. Reminds me of that Brecht bonmot:

What is robbing a bank compared to founding a bank?

309 RogueOne  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:26:49pm

re: #301 wozzablog

Gus has left.

That's worded better. I didn't take it as a flounce.

310 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:26:51pm

re: #301 wozzablog

Gus has left.

What happened?

311 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:27:54pm

re: #310 Dark_Falcon

What happened?

Discussion and disagreements.

312 Atlas Fails  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:28:11pm

re: #298 windsagio

But they SAID it was a Revolution!!!

313 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:28:21pm

re: #292 NJDhockeyfan

I go work today and when I come back I see a lizard flounced and some nuts closed the Brooklyn Bridge. Is there a full moon tonight?

No, it's just past Rosh Hashanah.

314 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:29:08pm

re: #291 windsagio

in with the requisite 'the Democrats do it too!!!' I see ><

much of the point of my most was that such corruption is endemic to Chicago, and not the province of any single party. Other 3rd parties in Chicago have had similar problems historically.

Frankly, I think its something in the water.

315 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:29:36pm

re: #301 wozzablog

Gus has left.

I hope he changes his mind.

316 RogueOne  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:30:14pm

re: #314 Dark_Falcon

much of the point of my most was that such corruption is endemic to Chicago, and not the province of any single party. Other 3rd parties in Chicago have had similar problems historically.

Frankly, I think its something in the water.

Are there any Republican elected officials in IL from Chicago?

317 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:30:20pm

re: #294 SanFranciscoZionist

They refused to let Rabbi Michael Lerner speak at one of their demos.

You fur that or agin' it?

318 TedStriker  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:31:14pm

re: #310 Dark_Falcon

What happened?

Apparently, some exchange upthread was the straw that broke the camel's back for him or something...it was a flounce inasmuch he announced he was out for good, instead of just leaving without a word and not coming back.

I advised him just to take a breather for a while and come back if he felt like it, but I don't know if he read it.

C'est la vie...

319 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:31:21pm

Wall St. protesters shut down Brooklyn Bridge

Police have arrested over 100 protesters after the Occupy Wall Street movement shut down the Brooklyn Bridge for two hours, stranding motorists as thousands of marchers, who have been camping out in the Financial District for weeks, made their way through Lower Manhattan.

The bridge has since been cleared of protesters.

About 100 cars were left stuck as the loud, angry crowd covered the span from end to end in yet another day of demonstrations against high unemployment, bank bailouts and economic uncertainty for the masses.

One irate driver, a Ground Zero construction worker, blasted the pedestrians.

"I work my ass off all day, and these goddamned hippies close down the Brooklyn Bridge so I can't get home?" he said. "This ain't right!"

Do these morons expect to gain support for this nonsense?

320 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:31:59pm

re: #278 wozzablog

Marx is buried a couple of miles from my front door. We are never going to agree on this.

I would point to this link again though to see what I think better than I can express it.
[Link: blogs.hbr.org...]

A reasonable analysis that reminds me of Michael Harrington's writings on Marx. Of course he was a Socialist so he was ignored; this being the Harvard Biz Review might get a couple of more people talking about it.

The blog though misses an important part of Marx - that he had a deep belief in the use of Democracy and elections to bring change. Read some of Mr. Harrington's works for more on this concept.

321 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:32:31pm

re: #290 windsagio

it's not 'nothing', of course, but you have no idea what 'revolution means' it seems like :p

and you do....LOL!
consider this...it means different thinks to different people

322 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:33:11pm

re: #319 NJDhockeyfan

Wall St. protesters shut down Brooklyn Bridge

Do these morons expect to gain support for this nonsense?

If they wanted support from New Yorkers they would have closed the Lincoln Tunnel.

323 TedStriker  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:33:48pm

re: #322 Decatur Deb

If they wanted support from New Yorkers they would have closed the Lincoln Tunnel.

*rimshot*

324 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:34:00pm

Revelution:

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

325 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:34:50pm

define revolution....we need a thread to figure it out...
I know I'm revolting
LOL!

326 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:36:23pm

re: #319 NJDhockeyfan

Wall St. protesters shut down Brooklyn Bridge

Do these morons expect to gain support for this nonsense?

They thought today a good time for "escalation", thinking that they had the upper hand PR wise. And that might well have been true, but all they succeeded in doing was pissing people off and giving the NYPD an excuse to bring down the hammer.

327 Atlas Fails  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:36:26pm

re: #321 albusteve

and you do...LOL!
consider this...it means different thinks to different people

Fair enough. Some people think every substantial political change counts as a revolution (the 'Reagan Revolution,' for example), while others see it as a much rarer event that only occurs when the system itself is either radically changed (the Revolutionary War) or, as in the case of the Revolution of 1800, new precedents are set for the system.

328 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:37:14pm

re: #317 Decatur Deb

You fur that or agin' it?

I don't like Michael Lerner much, but he is sincerely for peace and mutual understanding, and he was sincerely against the war. He's a well-known lefty writer, and has a following. They rejected him because he identifies as a left-wing Zionist. As far as I was concerned, that pretty much clarified where they were coming from.

329 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:37:24pm

re: #319 NJDhockeyfan

Wall St. protesters shut down Brooklyn Bridge

Do these morons expect to gain support for this nonsense?

support is secondary....showing off your big balls is primary....
fuck with traffic in NYC and everybody will hate you

330 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:37:29pm

re: #319 NJDhockeyfan

Wall St. protesters shut down Brooklyn Bridge

Do these morons expect to gain support for this nonsense?

Wow. The NYP is laying the extra adjectives pretty thick. Wonder if we're supposed to think that all the protestors are angry uncaring hippies?

Chances are with a crowd that big that there wasn't even an intent to block the bridge--large masses of people are notoriously unwieldy and difficult to marshal, and generally when a protest group are going to shut something down, they declare it at some point (even if the decision is spontaneous, there's a prepared statement)--but that the possibility of this being anything other than malice with foresight just doesn't market as well.

331 Achilles Tang  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:37:48pm

re: #3 Killgore Trout

He uses the f word quite a bit...

Some people here do too. Just saying.

332 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:38:23pm

re: #327 Atlas Fails

Fair enough. Some people think every substantial political change counts as a revolution (the 'Reagan Revolution,' for example), while others see it as a much rarer event that only occurs when the system itself is either radically changed (the Revolutionary War) or, as in the case of the Revolution of 1800, new precedents are set for the system.

I get bored with nit picking...call it whatever you want

333 BishopX  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:38:35pm

re: #326 Dark_Falcon

They thought today a good time for "escalation", thinking that they had the upper hand PR wise. And that might well have been true, but all they succeeded in doing was pissing people off and giving the NYPD an excuse to bring down the hammer.

The NYPD bringing down the hammer is what keeps these protests going.

334 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:39:13pm

re: #328 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't like Michael Lerner much, but he is sincerely for peace and mutual understanding, and he was sincerely against the war. He's a well-known lefty writer, and has a following. They rejected him because he identifies as a left-wing Zionist. As far as I was concerned, that pretty much clarified where they were coming from.

OK, I'll put that down as a "agin'".

"SFZ is a Tikkun Nostalgic."

335 RogueOne  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:39:28pm

re: #331 Naso Tang

Some people here do too. Just saying.

What the fuck does that mean?

336 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:39:35pm

re: #319 NJDhockeyfan

Wall St. protesters shut down Brooklyn Bridge

Do these morons expect to gain support for this nonsense?

Yes, they think it helps their cause. Idiots.

337 Atlas Fails  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:40:24pm

re: #332 albusteve

I get bored with nit picking...call it whatever you want

You said the word means different things to different people...I wasn't really nit picking, just agreeing with and expanding on your point.

338 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:40:27pm

re: #335 RogueOne

What the fuck does that mean?

Why the fuck would you ask that?

339 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:40:37pm

re: #336 Killgore Trout

Yes, they think it helps their cause. Idiots.

Has anyone made a statement to that effect?

340 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:41:13pm

re: #336 Killgore Trout

Yes, they think it helps their cause. Idiots.

Check out the signs in this picture.

Does the sideways sign on the left say 'Resistance is Fertile'?

341 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:41:18pm

re: #334 Decatur Deb

OK, I'll put that down as a "agin'".

"SFZ is a Tikkun Nostalgic."

I worked for Michael. For four of the most aggravating months of my life.

342 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:41:31pm

re: #333 BishopX

The NYPD bringing down the hammer is what keeps these protests going.

do they seek confrontation?...is that what gives value to the demo?...if so, they better cook up a better excuse than WS is screwing them...if they dig their militant persona then lay it on the line, fuck the citizens

343 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:42:36pm

re: #337 Atlas Fails

You said the word means different things to different people...I wasn't really nit picking, just agreeing with and expanding on your point.

ah...okay

344 RogueOne  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:42:40pm

re: #338 Killgore Trout

Why the fuck would you ask that?

The Universal Adjective

345 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:42:41pm

re: #340 NJDhockeyfan

Check out the signs in this picture.

Does the sideways sign on the left say 'Resistance is Fertile'?

Won't see much of that at a Tea party.

346 Achilles Tang  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:43:50pm

re: #335 RogueOne

What the fuck does that mean?

The ding saved you.

347 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:45:57pm

re: #345 Decatur Deb

Won't see much of that at a Tea party.

SHIT IS FUCKED UP AND BULLSHIT!

348 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:47:18pm

re: #333 BishopX

The NYPD bringing down the hammer is what keeps these protests going.

Not this time it won't. People won't support assholes who shut down their ability to travel like they protestors just did. City workers unions tried a similar tactic in the 1970's and Ed Koch was able to rally the public against it.

349 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:47:31pm

re: #347 NJDhockeyfan

SHIT IS FUCKED UP AND BULLSHIT!

Don't have visuals. Is that one of the signs? If so it's the beginnings of wisdom.

350 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:48:35pm

re: #339 The Ghost of a Flea

Has anyone made a statement to that effect?

why else would they do it?...weekend stroll?

351 BishopX  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:51:10pm

re: #348 Dark_Falcon

That's because Ed Koch handled it well. It's hard to blame protestors for shutting down a Bridge when the NYPD nets off both sides....

352 Amory Blaine  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:51:55pm
353 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:52:34pm

re: #351 BishopX

That's because Ed Koch handled it well. It's hard to blame protestors for shutting down a Bridge when the NYPD nets off both sides...

so what are they doing out there?...I don't get it
explain it to us

354 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:53:04pm

re: #351 BishopX

That's because Ed Koch handled it well. It's hard to blame protestors for shutting down a Bridge when the NYPD nets off both sides...

They they should keep their protest off the damn bridge. The NYPD has reasonable concerns that can lead to it limiting access to bridges. People should recognize that and not try to circumvent such closures.

355 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:54:12pm

BBL

356 Achilles Tang  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:57:06pm

re: #353 albusteve

so what are they doing out there?...I don't get it
explain it to us

Youth. Remember?

At least they aren't lobbying for their representatives to sign pledges to never ever vote for this or that; yet.

357 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:58:09pm

Got pulled over tonight. And my wife had to come and get me because my driving privileges have been revoked. Wanna know why? Here's what the DMV says...

* Appear at a DMV office and present proof that you are legally present in the United States.

Out of nowhere they've suspended my driving privileges until I can prove that I am an American. I'm so fucking mad right now I could fucking SCREAM!

358 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:58:16pm

re: #356 Naso Tang

Youth. Remember?

At least they aren't lobbying for the representatives to sign pledges to never ever vote for this or that; yet.

dad?...I need a grand to get out of jail...dad?

359 Amory Blaine  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:58:48pm

re: #357 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Holy shit

360 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 3:59:17pm

re: #357 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Got pulled over tonight. And my wife had to come and get me because my driving privileges have been revoked. Wanna know why? Here's what the DMV says...

Out of nowhere they've suspended my driving privileges until I can prove that I am an American. I'm so fucking mad right now I could fucking SCREAM!

tell them to prove that you aren't....sit it out then sue

361 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:00:54pm

I was on my way to work. Had to cancel an appointment because of this. My livelihood.

Is this the Patriot Act finally biting me on the ass?

362 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:02:33pm

re: #350 albusteve

why else would they do it?...weekend stroll?

Somebody in the crowds wheels and other people follow. One guy decides to go to the Bridge, a hundred others follow without any insight into where or why or if they're making a statement. People decide to move away from something bothersome--the police cordon, other protestors--and bam.

This is a protest that is incorporating spontaneous participation with very little ability to check what everyone's doing. That includes spatial issues--and the more people there are, the more likely a bottleneck will occur.

Hence why I've asked if someone has issued a statement regarding occupation of the bridge: sometimes it is planned by protestors. Which is not okay in my book.

re: #354 Dark_Falcon

They they should keep their protest off the damn bridge. The NYPD has reasonable concerns that can lead to it limiting access to bridges. People should recognize that and not try to circumvent such closures.

Yes, and if you didn't want to get on the bridge, I'm pretty sure the fifty people on either side of you would obligingly get out of your way, and the police cordon would magically open to let you by.

Given what I know of not only crowd control tactics but dirty tricks, another possibility is that the police herded people onto the bridge, which then gives then license to arrest. Given that I haven't heard mention of the crowd pressing through a police force blocking the bridge for logistical reasons, I actually a bit curious about how this all went down.

363 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:03:59pm

re: #362 The Ghost of a Flea

Somebody in the crowds wheels and other people follow. One guy decides to go to the Bridge, a hundred others follow without any insight into where or why or if they're making a statement. People decide to move away from something bothersome--the police cordon, other protestors--and bam.

This is a protest that is incorporating spontaneous participation with very little ability to check what everyone's doing. That includes spatial issues--and the more people there are, the more likely a bottleneck will occur.

Hence why I've asked if someone has issued a statement regarding occupation of the bridge: sometimes it is planned by protestors. Which is not okay in my book.

re: #354 Dark_Falcon

Yes, and if you didn't want to get on the bridge, I'm pretty sure the fifty people on either side of you would obligingly get out of your way, and the police cordon would magically open to let you by.

Given what I know of not only crowd control tactics but dirty tricks, another possibility is that the police herded people onto the bridge, which then gives then license to arrest. Given that I haven't heard mention of the crowd pressing through a police force blocking the bridge for logistical reasons, I actually a bit curious about how this all went down.

lots of blather....you nicely avoided the question

364 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:05:02pm

re: #361 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was on my way to work. Had to cancel an appointment because of this. My livelihood.

Is this the Patriot Act finally biting me on the ass?

try the Apple Pie Appeal

365 Achilles Tang  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:05:40pm

re: #361 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was on my way to work. Had to cancel an appointment because of this. My livelihood.

Is this the Patriot Act finally biting me on the ass?

Where?

366 BishopX  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:08:03pm

re: #353 albusteve

They were marching to Brooklyn after the NYPD closed the gates at city hall. Once they got on the bridge the NYPD netted both ends and brought in buses for 200 people.

367 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:08:33pm

re: #363 albusteve

lots of blather...you nicely avoided the question

You ask the question "Why did they do it?"

I answer, "Maybe it wasn't intentional, maybe it was, in which case I'm awaiting an explanation"

And that's blather?

368 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:09:35pm

re: #366 BishopX

They were marching to Brooklyn after the NYPD closed the gates at city hall. Once they got on the bridge the NYPD netted both ends and brought in buses for 200 people.

WS is not in Brooklyn, city hall is next to WS...why were they marching to Brooklyn?

369 BishopX  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:10:21pm

re: #357 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Got pulled over tonight. And my wife had to come and get me because my driving privileges have been revoked. Wanna know why? Here's what the DMV says...

Out of nowhere they've suspended my driving privileges until I can prove that I am an American. I'm so fucking mad right now I could fucking SCREAM!

Doesn't getting pulled over prove that you're in the States?

370 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:10:28pm

re: #354 Dark_Falcon

Yes, and if you didn't want to get on the bridge, I'm pretty sure the fifty people on either side of you would obligingly get out of your way, and the police cordon would magically open to let you by.

Given what I know of not only crowd control tactics but dirty tricks, another possibility is that the police herded people onto the bridge, which then gives then license to arrest. Given that I haven't heard mention of the crowd pressing through a police force blocking the bridge for logistical reasons, I actually a bit curious about how this all went down.

It's simple, really: Just turn in place. You won't be able to go fast, but if you're smart in how you move you can go the other way through a crowd. I've done it many a time.

And I refuse to entertain charges of shenanigans against the NYPD without proof. They get the benefit of the doubt from me.

371 Achilles Tang  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:10:50pm

re: #368 albusteve

WS is not in Brooklyn, city hall is next to WS...why were they marching to Brooklyn?

Perhaps a rumor that the wind would disperse tear gas better there.

372 BishopX  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:10:56pm

re: #368 albusteve

WS is not in Brooklyn, city hall is next to WS...why were they marching to Brooklyn?

No clue. I'm just reading the times and twitter.

373 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:11:43pm

re: #367 The Ghost of a Flea

You ask the question "Why did they do it?"

I answer, "Maybe it wasn't intentional, maybe it was, in which case I'm awaiting an explanation"

And that's blather?

how can you unintentionally go from WS to the bridge?...are you denying that they wanted to shut down the bridge? or is that a coincidence?

374 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:13:20pm

re: #371 Naso Tang

Perhaps a rumor that the wind would disperse tear gas better there.

heh...best answer by far dude

375 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:14:17pm

re: #369 BishopX

Doesn't getting pulled over prove that you're in the States?

You'd think.

376 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:16:53pm

re: #357 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Fuckin' Obama.
/

377 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:17:16pm

raise your hand if you know this area of NYC....no sane person can claim to appear on the Brooklyn Bridge by coincidence...gimme a break...the bridge is at least a couple miles from WS...lots of interchanges, raised streets, a clusterfuck for even a driver, let alone some iPod protester

378 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:20:16pm

re: #373 albusteve

how can you unintentionally go from WS to the bridge?...are you denying that they wanted to shut down the bridge? or is that a coincidence?

I not going to play along with this "I think you said X, and even though you've clarified that you didn't I'm going to make you defend X."

I said there was as-of-yet not enough information, and ventured alternate interpretations of the same material.

379 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:24:13pm

re: #378 The Ghost of a Flea

I not going to play along with this "I think you said X, and even though you've clarified that you didn't I'm going to make you defend X."

I said there was as-of-yet not enough information, and ventured alternate interpretations of the same material.

in other words, you just blow...the bridge is in fact no where near Wall Street, and to go there, en mass on foot would be to disrupt traffic...pretty simple...disrupting traffic will induce the NYPD to clear you off the bridge, a manufactured confrontation that no seasoned NYer will tolerate....fail

380 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:27:38pm

re: #370 Dark_Falcon

It's simple, really: Just turn in place. You won't be able to go fast, but if you're smart in how you move you can go the other way through a crowd. I've done it many a time.

And I refuse to entertain charges of shenanigans against the NYPD without proof. They get the benefit of the doubt from me.

Patrolman Shenanigan founded the NYPD. Why do you think they call joining up 'going Irish'?

381 lostlakehiker  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:30:08pm

re: #226 000G

The problem wasn't how much of the pie but the size of the pie in total.

The problem was the 100 million done to death. Some of them, by engineered famine. No pie for you.

382 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:30:38pm

re: #361 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was on my way to work. Had to cancel an appointment because of this. My livelihood.

Is this the Patriot Act finally biting me on the ass?

Are you native born, of the proper reflectivity?

383 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:39:25pm

re: #382 Decatur Deb

Are you native born, of the proper reflectivity?

Whiter than Rick Astley.

384 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:42:44pm

re: #383 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Whiter than Rick Astley.

Then it must have been the pancaked lowrider.

385 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:44:17pm

re: #384 Decatur Deb

Then it must have been the pancaked lowrider.

Lowrider?...got it

386 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:53:02pm

re: #357 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My wife says that law just passed in two states.

That's the anti-immigrant law that will probably get ruled unconstitutional.

It's the kind of thing we lefties say is a bad deal that screws over innocent people.

What's your take on it?

387 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:54:54pm

re: #386 Obdicut

My wife says that law just passed in two states.

That's the anti-immigrant law that will probably get ruled unconstitutional.

It's the kind of thing we lefties say is a bad deal that screws over innocent people.

What's your take on it?

won't work if you don't profile...sounds like a bogus law...if you don't recognize Mr Staypuff then it ain't working

388 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:55:23pm

re: #386 Obdicut

My wife says that law just passed in two states.

That's the anti-immigrant law that will probably get ruled unconstitutional.

It's the kind of thing we lefties say is a bad deal that screws over innocent people.

What's your take on it?

You can't be allowed to blast down our taxpayer highways blasting your Desi Arnez 8-tracks and throwing Taco Bell bags out the window.

389 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:58:53pm

re: #386 Obdicut

No problem with it, honestly. However, I have a problem if they make our wives come and get us without sending us any warning first.

For someone's license to arbitrarily to go to "not good" seems to suck. hard.

The cop had no idea what was going on. Not sure it happened here in VA.

390 albusteve  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:59:09pm

amazing

391 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 4:59:26pm

re: #386 Obdicut

Oh. And, thanks.

392 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 5:00:05pm

And my take on the protests:

I was on my way to do a little writing when I ran into a walk against rape. I joined in, and walked along with a lot of people with very appropriate signs stating that how a woman dresses, how many other people she's had sex with, etc. is no defense against raping her. All good stuff.

When we finally got to the park where the rally was, I saw desks set up for infomration. Most were cool, giving good info However, there were also desks set up by the damn Workers World Party. The WWP party who supported Mao, who's Cultural Revolution included a metric fuckton of rape.

What are these people doing at a rally against rape? Why were they allowed to put up a desk? Do people just not know who they are and not bother to research them at all?

393 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 5:02:47pm

re: #381 lostlakehiker

The problem was the 100 million done to death. Some of them, by engineered famine. No pie for you.

Heh.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

394 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 5:04:30pm

re: #389 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I hope California isn't ever dumb enough to pass a law like that.

We're always going to have illegal immigrants, at least until we radically transform our economies.

I'd really rather they have licenses. And insurance.

Of course, like my fellow California, Reagan, I'd rather we give amnesty and green cards out, too.

395 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 5:05:58pm

re: #394 Obdicut

Folks are going back to Mexico and Central and South America by droves.

They figured out how to reduce the number of illegals. Tank the fuckin' economy.

396 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 5:06:14pm

re: #393 Sergey Romanov

Heh.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

And probable a 40% overlap of the victims counted against both ideologies.

(That Paco Pena? Composer of Missa Flamenca?)

397 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 5:08:28pm

re: #395 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

People are going back to Mexico by droves. They figured out how to reduce the number of illegals.

Tank the fuckin' economy.

[Link: www.csmonitor.com...]

398 Achilles Tang  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 5:19:21pm

re: #383 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Whiter than Rick Astley.

Yeah, but look at your handle, then ask what the cop would think.

399 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 5:22:25pm

re: #397 Decatur Deb

[Link: www.csmonitor.com...]

From that link:

John McMillan, Alabama's agriculture commissioner, has urged the state to force residents receiving unemployment benefits to take farm-labor jobs or risk losing their benefits.

Why don't they force the would-be employers to raise the wages far enough to tempt some legal employees?

Rhetorical question, but one that must be asked.

400 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 5:24:14pm

re: #399 wrenchwench

From that link:

Why don't they force the would-be employers to raise the wages far enough to tempt some legal employees?

Rhetorical question, but one that must be asked.

Wages? In the good old days Alabama farm workers picked for free, the way the Founding Fathers intended.

401 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 5:30:11pm

re: #400 Decatur Deb

Wages? In the good old days Alabama farm workers picked for free, the way the Founding Fathers intended.

Raising wages to where they need to be to get people to want that work would cause some horrendous inflation, but it would be the right thing to do. Food is too cheap, subsidized by treating the poorest working people like dirt. Same goes for building trades. Textiles imported from places they treat people even worse are so cheap that none of the thrift stores around here want any clothing donations any more. And I'm in one of the poorest counties in one of the poorest states.

402 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 5:35:55pm

re: #401 wrenchwench

Raising wages to where they need to be to get people to want that work would cause some horrendous inflation, but it would be the right thing to do. Food is too cheap, subsidized by treating the poorest working people like dirt. Same goes for building trades. Textiles imported from places they treat people even worse are so cheap that none of the thrift stores around here want any clothing donations any more. And I'm in one of the poorest counties in one of the poorest states.

If everything cost what it really should cost (cradle-to-grave), about 3/5ths of our problems would go away. Of course Michael Vick and Madonna would make about 60K per year.

403 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 5:40:18pm

re: #402 Decatur Deb

If everything cost what it really should cost (cradle-to-grave), about 3/5ths of our problems would go away.

QFT.

Of course Michael Vick and Madonna would make about 60K per year.

If that!

404 BishopX  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 6:00:38pm

re: #402 Decatur Deb

If everything cost what it really should cost (cradle-to-grave), about 3/5ths of our problems would go away. Of course Michael Vick and Madonna would make about 60K per year.

I'm pretty sure they could make more than that. How much is a good show worth? Let's say the half the price of a good resturant meal. So 10 bucks a head. If a performer takes 10% of the sales that a dollar a head. At 1,000 people a show, 4 shows a week, that's 200,000 a year with time off for vacation.

Now the big super stars can reliably fill spaces an order of magnitude bigger than that. Which means they could be making about as much as a corporate executive should be makings. Seems reasonable to me.

405 darthstar  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 6:03:30pm

re: #47 Fortitudine

I am so going to quote you next time I get an email from one of my tinfoil hat-wearing relatives.

Thanks.

406 darthstar  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 6:04:14pm

re: #48 ggt

No, it's just Chicago Politics--always is and always will be.

Nothing to do with Obama.

"Chicago Politics" is a lie. This is simply misappropriation of funds and has nothing to do with politics.

407 Decatur Deb  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 6:04:49pm

re: #404 BishopX

I'm pretty sure they could make more than that. How much is a good show worth? Let's say the half the price of a good resturant meal. So 10 bucks a head. If a performer takes 10% of the sales that a dollar a head. At 1,000 people a show, 4 shows a week, that's 200,000 a year with time off for vacation.

Now the big super stars can reliably fill spaces an order of magnitude bigger than that. Which means they could be making about as much as a corporate executive should be makings. Seems reasonable to me.

Sorry, we're talking aesthetics here. If they were depending on me they'd both be on welfare, or picking squash under the New Alabama Deal.

408 wilburs  Sat, Oct 1, 2011 6:38:54pm

re: #27 Charles

And the scandal is getting even more interesting. Breitbart's own far right blogger Warner Todd Huston notes that TeaCon organizer Steve Stevlic, whose whereabouts are currently unknown, may also have been playing some funny games with the event's money.

I see that "Deadbeat Joe" Walsh is one of the featured speakers....perhaps Stevlic can hook up with him and get some pointers on hiding funds from investigators.

409 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Oct 2, 2011 12:18:04am

re: #261 000G

Doing well for whom?

Btw, to the people downdinging this without arguing: I guess you have never contemplated enough about the difference between individual, nation, and class in "an economy".

410 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Oct 2, 2011 12:30:42am

re: #381 lostlakehiker

The problem was the 100 million done to death. Some of them, by engineered famine. No pie for you.

Not going to argue Black Book numbers here, but I would still argue that that was a consequence of shrinking the pie dramatically in total as the cause.

411 RogueOne  Sun, Oct 2, 2011 3:22:07am

re: #346 Naso Tang

The ding saved you.

Were you planning on calling my mom? She already knows I have a potty mouth.


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