NPR: Snowden May Have Stolen 1.7 Million NSA Documents

The moral of this story: never give a dudebro root access
US News • Views: 18,134

Here are a couple of excellent audio segments from today’s edition of NPR’s All Things Considered on recent developments in the ongoing NSA story, starting with the federal district court decision that the NSA’s telephone metadata collection program within the United States is “likely to be unconstitutional.”

Judge Rules Against NSA Bulk Collection Program:

MP3 Audio

The second segment deals with what we now know about the methods Edward Snowden used to steal so many top secret documents. And by “so many,” I mean he might have stolen as many as 1.7 million documents.

Snowden’s Document Leaks Shocked the NSA, and More May Be on the Way:

MP3 Audio

Jump to bottom

121 comments
1 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:41:13pm

This whole debacle is mind-numbing.

2 Lidane  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:41:44pm

And I’m sure he’s read, vetted, and understood all 1.7 million documents to know exactly what’s in them.

I mean, it’s not like an American hero would just indiscriminately steal as much as he could to sell to the highest bidder before running off to Russia, right?

3 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:43:03pm

Remember the articles about Snowden’s “doomsday” cache, that would be released if something “happened” to him?

4 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:48:29pm

1.7 million documents. That’s sorta mind-boggling.

5 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:48:35pm

HOLY SHIT

6 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:49:08pm

How large of a device would he need?

7 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:50:20pm

BEEBEE KITTEHS!!!

8 freetoken  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:50:27pm

re: #6 Lord of the Pies

One USB memory stick?

9 Lidane  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:51:04pm

re: #6 Lord of the Pies

How large of a device would he need?

Depends on the documents, but a simple external drive could be large enough for that much data.

10 Gus  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:51:05pm

11 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:51:07pm

re: #6 Lord of the Pies

How large of a device would he need?

No way to know for sure. But if it’s mostly text, not very large. One or two thumb drives.

12 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:52:52pm

[Dudebro]HURR HURR[/wingnut]

13 spiderx  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:53:48pm

say what you want about Snowden but at least he exposed the shockingly creepy behavior the NSA was up to.

14 EPR-radar  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:54:45pm

re: #4 Charles Johnson

1.7 million documents. That’s sorta mind-boggling.

I see it as proof that the NSA’s security practices were severely flawed. It should be physically impossible for any single person at an intelligence agency to get their hands on that much data.

Hopefully these problems have been addressed competently since then.

15 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:55:33pm

Here David Sirota is your honorary Tea Bag Hat.

16 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:55:40pm

re: #13 spiderx

say what you want about Snowden but at least he exposed the shockingly creepy behavior the NSA was up to.

Ever hear of the Patriot Act?

Snowflake exposed nothing if you were paying any attention in the first place.

17 Lidane  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:56:07pm

re: #13 spiderx

say what you want about Snowden but at least he exposed the shockingly creepy behavior the NSA was up to.

He stole 1.7 million classified documents to sell to the highest bidder, then he ran to Russia. Now he’s whining that the US won’t let him travel freely and he’s bartering documents for amnesty.

He’s a thief, a traitor, and a dudebro tool. Fuck Snowden.

18 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:57:30pm


Didn’t we know this already?

19 Lidane  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:57:38pm

re: #16 William Barnett-Lewis

Ever hear of the Patriot Act?

Snowflake exposed nothing if you were paying any attention in the first place.

Seriously. Idiots and rubes all over the internet are like SNOWDEN IZ A HERO, HE SACRIFICED HIZ LIFE FOR US when anyone who’s been paying attention for the last 12 goddamn years knew that the Patriot Act is a shitty law and that both FISA and the NSA need oversight and review.

20 Internet Tough Guy  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:59:01pm

I will bet 10bux that GG starts outing agents by March.

That’s the only thing his Russian buddies are interested in anyway.

21 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 5:59:46pm

I’ve really been trying not to pay attention to Snowden/greenguy and all.

There is just too much drama.

There is very little he could expose that would seriously shock me.

22 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:00:38pm

re: #17 Lidane

He stole 1.7 million classified documents to sell to the highest bidder, then he ran to Russia. Now he’s whining that the US won’t let him travel freely and he’s bartering documents for amnesty.

He’s a thief, a traitor, and a dudebro tool. Fuck Snowden.

Tell us how you really feel! :)

23 Gus  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:00:40pm

24 spiderx  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:00:40pm

re: #17 Lidane

He stole 1.7 million classified documents to sell to the highest bidder, then he ran to Russia. Now he’s whining that the US won’t let him travel freely and he’s bartering documents for amnesty.

He’s a thief, a traitor, and a dudebro tool. Fuck Snowden.

that’s why I prefaced my comment with, “say what you want about Snowden.”

He’s no hero, but he did make public absolutely shocking behavior by the NSA.

25 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:02:17pm

When I was in the Army during the First Gulf War, I was the unit’s Comsec and classified document custodian. With Classified stuff to have access to it normally you have to have both a ‘Right To Know’ (appropriate clearance) and a “Need To Know” (valid reason to see it). Sounds like he was in a position where he had access (like I did) to a lot of documents he didn’t have a “Need” to access.

I’m curious, I would think (hope?) that a system holding that much highly classified stuff would have positive logging on all access and attempts. Did he have the ability to reset logs, or was he working under spoofed accts?

RBS

26 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:03:14pm

Later, lizards.

27 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:04:26pm

Seriously, 1.7M documents.

How many are copies of copies of forwarded emails?

Gas receipts, expense reports, receipts for janitorial supplies.

What?

28 Lidane  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:05:22pm

re: #24 spiderx

he did make public absolutely shocking behavior by the NSA.

No he didn’t. He made himself the story. Fuck him.

Anyone who’s paid attention since the Patriot Act was pushed through in 2001 knew that it was a shitty law. They also knew the NSA had issues. They’re the same issues plaguing the rest of the government — technology is outpacing the law. By the time people have figured out one generation of technology and written laws for it, another two or three generations of tech have come and replaced the previous tech.

29 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:05:44pm

re: #23 Gus

Believe me, I am laughing my ass off.

30 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:06:21pm

re: #24 spiderx

No. No he didn’t.

31 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:06:31pm

Bottom line: this really was a monumental fuck-up by the NSA to let this guy have anywhere near this level of access.

32 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:07:05pm

3 or 4 Norton EULAs and your halfway to 1.7 mil.

33 Gus  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:07:05pm

34 Gus  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:10:14pm

Heh. Got a butthurt down ding?

35 Gus  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:11:09pm

Oh well. I’ll come back later maybe.

36 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:11:17pm


Yes, I’m loving Beyonce. It’s a wonderful album.

37 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:11:19pm

38 spiderx  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:11:27pm

re: #28 Lidane

No he didn’t. He made himself the story. Fuck him.

Anyone who’s paid attention since the Patriot Act was pushed through in 2001 knew that it was a shitty law. They also knew the NSA had issues. They’re the same issues plaguing the rest of the government — technology is outpacing the law. By the time people have figured out one generation of technology and written laws for it, another two or three generations of tech have come and replaced the previous tech.

Okay, so he didn’t expose any NSA secret programs now? Gotcha

Look, if he would have stayed in the US instead of fleeing to Russia then I’d be calling him a hero. If it wasn’t for Snowden we wouldn’t have known that every single one of our emails was being collected and mined for meta data and who knows what else.

He’s a bad guy for fleeing to Russia and probably for releasing more than he should have. But it’s not black and white. A lot of what he did release exposed NSA wrongdoing. And that’s a good thing.

39 ohpleaseno  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:11:36pm

re: #28 Lidane

No he didn’t. He made himself the story. Fuck him.

Are you talking about Greenwald or Snowden?

40 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:11:46pm

re: #34 Gus

Heh. Got a butthurt down ding?

I don’t even recognize the picture.

I feel old.

41 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:11:59pm

re: #37 Feline Fearless Leader

[Embedded image]

Yes, the spiny tailed lizard!

42 Lidane  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:13:12pm

re: #39 ohpleaseno

Are you talking about Greenwald or Snowden?

Yes.

43 EPR-radar  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:13:46pm

re: #40 FemNaziBitch

I don’t even recognize the picture.

I feel old.

It’s a Snowden picture from his Ars Technica days, IIRC.

44 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:14:38pm

someone —fact check this one.


I’m going to bed.

45 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:15:05pm

re: #43 EPR-radar

It’s a Snowden picture from his Ars Technica days, IIRC.

ah —i’m not going to say anything.

46 Internet Tough Guy  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:15:27pm

Shooting at Reno medical center.

47 Political Atheist  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:15:36pm

re: #13 spiderx
re: #24 spiderx

say what you want about Snowden but at least he exposed the shockingly creepy behavior the NSA was up to.

Oh no. Hell no. Not from any angle. Liar. Password thief. Data thief. Traitor. Spy. Defector, and today mercenary for the price of admission. He has done incalculable damage. Damn near makes the argument to restrain the NSA on domestic PRISM and sunset the P.A. impossible.

Nobody here speaks more openly for these changes. At best I get a cool reception. And this blog polled 75% for removing or reforming the Patriot Act. Why? Because of these two who pretty much screwed the pooch through and through.

48 Lidane  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:17:01pm

re: #38 spiderx

Look, if he would have stayed in the US instead of fleeing to Russia then I’d be calling him a hero.

I wouldn’t. But I’d at least respect his convictions for staying to fight, since that’s what real whistleblowers do.

If it wasn’t for Snowden we wouldn’t have known that every single one of our emails was being collected and mined for meta data and who knows what else.

Seriously? We live in an era where Facebook and Google know more about you than the government does and you’re surprised that metadata mining was going on?

A lot of what he did release exposed NSA wrongdoing. And that’s a good thing.

He exposed the security holes at the NSA, and their over-reliance on contractors for work. I’m not convinced he’s done anything else that’s worthwhile.

49 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:17:12pm

I will say, the Snowden/Greenwald debacle doesn’t have the same level of drama as Deep Throat and Watergate.

At least with Deep Throat, there really was a crime to uncover.

50 jaunte  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:17:31pm

re: #44 FemNaziBitch

It’s from Frank Herbert, writing in Dune Messiah.
readanybooks.net

51 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:17:37pm

re: #25 RealityBasedSteve

When I was in the Army during the First Gulf War, I was the unit’s Comsec and classified document custodian. With Classified stuff to have access to it normally you have to have both a ‘Right To Know’ (appropriate clearance) and a “Need To Know” (valid reason to see it). Sounds like he was in a position where he had access (like I did) to a lot of documents he didn’t have a “Need” to access.

I’m curious, I would think (hope?) that a system holding that much highly classified stuff would have positive logging on all access and attempts. Did he have the ability to reset logs, or was he working under spoofed accts?

RBS

Might have been responsible for the logs? Bad procedure to be sure but this was FUBAR’d to a nearly unprecedented level.

52 Kragar  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:18:04pm

re: #13 spiderx

say what you want about Snowden but at least he exposed the shockingly creepy behavior the NSA was up to.

No, what he did was steal national intelligence data and provided to people without the clearance to access it, including foreign powers.

He is a thief and a traitor.

53 Kragar  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:18:41pm

I’m just devastated.
///

54 Kragar  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:19:52pm

Why do people not realize making shit up undermines any argument?

55 AlexRogan  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:20:28pm

re: #13 spiderx

say what you want about Snowden but at least he exposed the shockingly creepy behavior the NSA was up to.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…

Wait, you’re serious?

56 EPR-radar  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:20:46pm

re: #51 William Barnett-Lewis

Might have been responsible for the logs? Bad procedure to be sure but this was FUBAR’d to a nearly unprecedented level.

IIRC, Snowden had sysadmin access, and worked solo. That by itself is a security breach that would comfortably fit an ocean liner.

57 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:20:56pm

re: #31 Charles Johnson

The Iraq fuck up exposed our weakness on intelligence. The failure of Katrina layed bare our lack of coordination. Financial markets exploding in front of everyone’s eyes as the media and officials were denying it was happening. The recent episode with the fake sign language guy so close to the President, it’s pretty fucking scary. This kind of stuff seems system wide and exposes some real vulnerabilities.

58 Internet Tough Guy  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:21:08pm

re: #53 Kragar

OMG Cato? Wrong? How dare you!

59 Kragar  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:21:47pm

re: #58 Internet Tough Guy

OMG Cato? Wrong? How dare you!

Jesus said making shit up is THE DEVIL!

60 AlexRogan  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:22:57pm

re: #43 EPR-radar

It’s a Snowden picture from his Ars Technica days, IIRC.

IIRC, Mr. Snowden had a brief modeling “career” back in those days.

61 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:27:02pm

re: #54 Kragar

Why do people not realize making shit up undermines any argument?

It’s about winning, not being right.

Remember A Few Good Men?

62 sagehen  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:27:20pm

re: #38 spiderx

Okay, so he didn’t expose any NSA secret programs now? Gotcha

Look, if he would have stayed in the US instead of fleeing to Russia then I’d be calling him a hero. If it wasn’t for Snowden we wouldn’t have known that every single one of our emails was being collected and mined for meta data and who knows what else.

He’s a bad guy for fleeing to Russia and probably for releasing more than he should have. But it’s not black and white. A lot of what he did release exposed NSA wrongdoing. And that’s a good thing.

He gave Russia and China the entire contents of an NSA contractor’s data collection. All of it.

Whatever you think the US govt didn’t have the right to… now the Russian and Chinese govts have it. Does that really make you sleep better?

63 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:27:35pm

re: #58 Internet Tough Guy

OMG Cato? Wrong? How dare you!

IMHO, Cato is just another branch of the Heritage Foundation.

64 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:28:25pm

re: #55 AlexRogan

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…

Wait, you’re serious?

Seriously! Reality is much more fucked-up and creepy than the movies.

65 jaunte  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:30:45pm

re: #62 sagehen

Whatever you think the US govt didn’t have the right to… now the Russian and Chinese govts have it.

And that doesn’t seem to be a result that benefits anyone here.

66 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:30:51pm

Help me out here. My feeble addled brain seems to remember THAT -after 9/11 Tom Clancy and others were saying that the Clinton Administration should have not tried to take the cloak and dagger out of the CIA.

The idea was the administration (I actually remember this from reading the 9/11 Report) decided that we just didn’t act that way. Trying to keep thing above board and transparent.

So, now people are truly and actually shocked that NSA does creepy stuff?

Am I getting this correctly?

67 sagehen  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:32:36pm

re: #66 FemNaziBitch

Help me out here. My feeble addled brain seems to remember THAT -after 9/11 Tom Clancy and others were saying that the Clinton Administration should have not tried to take the cloak and dagger out of the CIA.

The idea was the administration (I actually remember this from reading the 9/11 Report) decided that we just didn’t act that way. Trying to keep thing above board and transparent.

So, now people are truly and actually shocked that NSA does creepy stuff?

Am I getting this correctly?

It wasn’t about being above-board or transparent… it was somebody decided technology was more reliable than human beings.

68 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:35:22pm

re: #67 sagehen

It wasn’t about being above-board or transparent… it was somebody decided technology was more reliable than human beings.

ah!

69 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:36:16pm

re: #67 sagehen

It wasn’t about being above-board or transparent… it was somebody decided technology was more reliable than human beings.

I seem to remember some definite aversion to creepy stuff. The idea that America doesn’t act that way —keeps popping into my head.

bottom line —yes, America does act that way. We aren’t the moral superiors to anyone.

70 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:37:18pm

night all!

71 Lidane  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:42:03pm

Huzzah! The caramel turtle brownies were a success. I may just get the hang of this baking thing.

72 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:48:46pm

So Snowden is either the world’s luckiest amateur spy, or part of a well-planned and expertly executed project.

73 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:48:56pm

re: #66 FemNaziBitch

Help me out here. My feeble addled brain seems to remember THAT -after 9/11 Tom Clancy and others were saying that the Clinton Administration should have not tried to take the cloak and dagger out of the CIA.

The idea was the administration (I actually remember this from reading the 9/11 Report) decided that we just didn’t act that way. Trying to keep thing above board and transparent.

So, now people are truly and actually shocked that NSA does creepy stuff?

Am I getting this correctly?

Kind of. Clinton did roll back some of the abilities of different agencies (CIA, FBI, NSA, etc) to share information with each other. In regards to the the 9-11 plot a few of the hijackers were in contact with a known al Qaeda controller in Yemen. Under the rules at the time we missed the clues because the hijackers were calling from the us, which meant their calls were protected and even if the CIA or NSA did know about the calls they couldn’t share that info with the FBI or domestic agencies. Those rules have since been changed to allow the sharing of intel between agencies.

74 Ming  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:49:24pm

re: #25 RealityBasedSteve

…I’m curious, I would think (hope?) that a system holding that much highly classified stuff would have positive logging on all access and attempts. Did he have the ability to reset logs, or was he working under spoofed accts?
RBS

LOGGING. You raise a really good question. Was there logging, each time Snowden accessed a document? That would be 1.7 million log entries. Even if he used spoofed accounts, that’s still 1.7 million log entries. Did no one at the NSA raise an eyebrow, when document after document was accessed?

I don’t know how many documents Snowden really acquired, if it was 1.7 million, or 1700, or 17, or whatever. But if he really did get his hands on a large number of documents, then I have to wonder if the NSA, even now, has a clue which of its secret documents are being accessed, and by whom.

I wish I could be more confident that the NSA hasn’t dropped the ball to such an extent. I’m grateful to the NSA, and the rest of America’s intelligence community, for protecting me and my fellow Americans. If they’ve let their guard down, we need to face the truth and work to improve their performance.

75 Political Atheist  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:52:34pm

re: #66 FemNaziBitch

One diff.. They were contemplating foreign intel gathering not domestic.

76 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:54:08pm

re: #7 FemNaziBitch

BEEBEE KITTEHS!!!

The photo linked to below was taken at Woodfield Mall in Schaumburg, IL. The upper level Jewelry store at the top left of the photo, and the McDonald’s below it on the middle level are still at Woodfield today in those same locations.

Image: malls7_copy.jpg

The photo was taken from the upper level of the mall in front of what was then Marshall Field’s (and is now Macy’s (Fuck!)).

77 dog philosopher  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:59:03pm

1.7 million documents

at a certain point, too much information is the same as no information

78 ObserverArt  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 7:00:10pm

I am willing to bet that many of the critics of the NSA methods would be the very first in line to complain where was the FBI, the CIA, the police…the NSA!!!

if another big terror attack occurred on US soil. Both the ‘nuts and the ‘bro’s would be howling like hyenas. “They should have known…they can’t protect us!”

That’s seems to be the standard American’s most recognizable trait…bitch and moan, cry and blame…damned either way. And maybe not even have any of it right, but it sounds bad…they are spying on little ol’ me!

Yet, I still see a ton of people that have no clue with any of this. Most seem to think someone is reading everyone’s stuff…no feel for what meta data is and the fact that everyone collects it. But by god, it is our ‘merican right to bitch while ill-informed.

You know with a Democracy we get what we are. And this is it.

I give any politician that thinks he can change anything all the credit in the world. Anyone would be just as well served to bash his head against a column at the Capitol building in Washington.

Snowden exposed something all right. As discussed above…we let a cheating, lying, deceptive, mole-like spy get into data. So, I credit him for that…it will cause more and tighter security. But hero? If he is a hero, we as a country and society are screwed.

But hey, Duck Dynasty IS the biggest thing on TV! Woot!

79 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 7:06:07pm
80 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 7:07:30pm

HURR HURR

81 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 7:09:27pm


Lol.

82 jonhendry  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 7:09:35pm

re: #20 Internet Tough Guy

I will bet 10bux that GG starts outing agents by March.

That’s the only thing his Russian buddies are interested in anyway.

I’m sure the Russians would also be interested in anything about any anti-Putin activity.

83 sagehen  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 7:11:00pm

re: #78 ObserverArt

But hey, Duck Dynasty IS the biggest thing on TV! Woot!

Bigger than Honey Boo Boo? Say it isn’t so!!

84 ObserverArt  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 7:12:41pm

re: #72 Decatur Deb

So Snowden is either the world’s luckiest amateur spy, or part of a well-planned and expertly executed project.

I agree. I think there is a whole other side to this that hasn’t come out yet. The way he got the job and manipulated his way to the data says to me he knew what he was going to do from the get-go. The questions are then, why did a guy like Snowden target the NSA and how did he know it could be done?

It took some research or someone else that broke ground to a point and told Snowden he could pull it off if he did so and so. It all says planned. Did he have something from his other work (CIA) or a connection because of other work that help guide his way to the data?

It sure would be interesting to see the data on Eddie. His life has had to be under the spy glass from the day this all came out.

85 jonhendry  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 7:15:12pm

re: #25 RealityBasedSteve

My understanding is that he was able edit logs, and he also was able to get his coworkers to give him their passwords, so he was able to log in as them and get files he couldn’t access under his own account. Apparently they just trusted him.

86 Whack-A-Mole  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 7:15:32pm

If my understanding of the Snowden timeline is correct, he was in contact with Greenwald/Poitras before he started work at Booz Allen Hamilton. Is this correct?

If so, then he is in no way, shape, or fucking form a hero. He took the job with the intent of stealing documents, meaning he had no idea what information he was going to come across. He didn’t leak because what he found shocked him; he was planning to leak before any such shock was possible. He took the job with the sole intent of stealing documents. He is a spy and, for giving that information to other governments, a traitor.

87 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 7:16:25pm

re: #84 ObserverArt

I agree. I think there is a whole other side to this that hasn’t come out yet. The way he got the job and manipulated his way to the data says to me he knew what he was going to do from the get-go. The questions are then, why did a guy like Snowden target the NSA and how did he know it could be don?

It took some research or someone else that broke ground to a point and told Snowden he could pull it off if he did so and so. It all says planned. Did he have something from his other work (CIA) or a connection because of other work that help guide his way to the data?

It sure would be interesting to see the data on Eddie. His life has had to be under the spy glass from the day this all came out.

The question I kept asking from the get-go is HOW DID HE GET THE JOB? He had a shitty resume. Daddy had connections but was Daddy in on it too? Or were Daddy’s connections JUST THAT AWESOME and Eddie is all like HEY YEAH DADDY CAN GET ME WHATEVER I WANT.

88 GlutenFreeJesus  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 7:18:19pm

re: #78 ObserverArt

I am willing to bet that many of the critics of the NSA methods would be the very first in line to complain where was the FBI, the CIA, the police…the NSA!!!

if another big terror attack occurred on US soil. Both the ‘nuts and the ‘bro’s would be howling like hyenas. “They should have known…they can’t protect us!”

That’s seems to be the standard American’s most recognizable trait…bitch and moan, cry and blame…damned either way. And maybe not even have any of it right, but it sounds bad…they are spying on little ol’ me!

Yet, I still see a ton of people that have no clue with any of this. Most seem to think someone is reading everyone’s stuff…no feel for what meta data is and the fact that everyone collects it. But by god, it is our ‘merican right to bitch while ill-informed.

You know with a Democracy we get what we are. And this is it.

I give any politician that thinks he can change anything all the credit in the world. Anyone would be just as well served to bash his head against a column at the Capitol building in Washington.

Snowden exposed something all right. As discussed above…we let a cheating, lying, deceptive, mole-like spy get into data. So, I credit him for that…it will cause more and tighter security. But hero? If he is a hero, we as a country and society are screwed.

But hey, Duck Dynasty IS the biggest thing on TV! Woot!

Nah… they’d be the first to say it was an inside job to scare us into submission so the Government can continue spying on every little aspect of our lives. The irony? They’d be posting this all over FB and Twitter.

89 ObserverArt  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 7:20:29pm

re: #88 GlutenFreeJesus

Nah… they’d be the first to say it was an inside job to scare us into submission so the Government can continue spying on every little aspect of our lives. The irony? They’d be posting this all over FB and Twitter.

I admire your level of cynicism! All based on truths.

/ : )

90 ObserverArt  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 7:23:53pm

Lawrence O’Donnell is ripping on Snowden’s Brazilian letter right now.

91 Lidane  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 7:29:22pm

re: #86 Whack-A-Mole

If my understanding of the Snowden timeline is correct, he was in contact with Greenwald/Poitras before he started work at Booz Allen Hamilton. Is this correct?

If so, then he is in no way, shape, or fucking form a hero. He took the job with the intent of stealing documents, meaning he had no idea what information he was going to come across. He didn’t leak because what he found shocked him; he was planning to leak before any such shock was possible. He took the job with the sole intent of stealing documents. He is a spy and, for giving that information to other governments, a traitor.

THIS. It’s why I don’t buy the dudebro canonization of Eddie as a hero that has sacrificed his life for the greater good.

What horseshit. I believe he went into it knowing damn well that he was going to steal those documents and try to extort an easy life for himself out of them. It didn’t matter whether that easy life came through a book deal, or a Faux News gig, or a movie about his life, or getting a cushy amnesty gig for another country that would only be too grateful to give him a free ride in exchange for what he stole. He acted deliberately and with malice. That’s no hero. That’s a liar and a thief.

92 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 7:30:59pm
93 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 7:31:14pm

re: #91 Lidane

THIS. It’s why I don’t buy the dudebro canonization of Eddie as a hero that has sacrificed his life for the greater good.

What horseshit. I believe he went into it knowing damn well that he was going to steal those documents and try to extort an easy life for himself out of them. It didn’t matter whether that easy life came through a book deal, or a Faux News gig, or a movie about his life, or getting a cushy amnesty gig for another country that would only be too grateful to give him a free ride in exchange for what he stole. He acted deliberately and with malice. That’s no hero. That’s a liar and a thief.

And the MOAST CRAZY THING IS, he ALREADY HAD AN EASY LIFE beyond the reach of most people.

94 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 7:36:45pm

And now ‘Daedalus’ AKA ‘Rodan’ AKA Dorkus has decided to post a Stalker thread attacking me for posting a Page that got promoted. I won’t link to the Stalkers, but I will say that Dorkus got my point wrong:

I didn’t throw the Republicans under the bus, and I wasn’t expecting the Page to be promoted (though I was happy that Charles did so). My intent was to call attention to what I felt was a serious problem. To quote from the article that was the Page’s topic:

This is in keeping with the most important principle of modern politicking: control. Keep the candidate “in the box” as much as possible (fewer debates, fewer news conferences) and make sure that you select a network and moderator that will be friendly and unchallenging.

SNIP

In reality, the secret to choosing a winning nominee in 2016 is the same for both parties: It is not fewer debates or mushier journalists. It is stronger candidates.

I’m a problem solver, and I posted that Page because I saw a problem that needed to be explained before it could be solved.

95 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 7:52:29pm

re: #3 Charles Johnson

Remember the articles about Snowden’s “doomsday” cache, that would be released if something “happened” to him?

Whether it’s true or not, the idea of him even making the claim/threat is so mind-bogglingly stupid it defies description.

The “dead man’s switch” bullshit is essentially a huge advertisement to any enemy of the US anywhere in the world, be it a terrorist group, drug cartel, hostile foreign government (or ambitious ‘rogue actors’ therein), street gang, town drunk who owns more Ayn Rand novels than pants, or Joker type who just wants to watch the world burn, that all they have to do to cause (what he claims would be) tremendous damage and calamity to the US is to simply fill him full of lead (or polonium).

And because he is Wyle E. Coyote, Super Genius, he runs away to countries that are notorious for having wildly corrupt (and corruptible) police and security forces, whom I guess he somehow figures have some sort of special ‘respect’ for him?

I admit I couldn’t stomach his entire “open letter” to Brazil, but after the first two paragraphs I’m pretty well convinced that he genuinely believes he is the single most important person in the world.

96 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 7:58:17pm

re: #85 jonhendry

My understanding is that he was able edit logs, and he also was able to get his coworkers to give him their passwords, so he was able to log in as them and get files he couldn’t access under his own account. Apparently they just trusted him.

In other words, everything from security 101 was just blown to bits. I wonder how much of it was due to the fact that in RL security is supposed to KEEP things from happening, so people who know the systems come up with ways to bypass to make their life easy.

But giving passwords up???? I hope to hell that either those people were fired or at least given a career ending notation in their files. If there is any thing we have learned from Kevin Mitnick, you can’t patch stupid… Social engineering your way to infame and misfortune, ARGH!!!!

{Snip of major brain Fart}

RBS

97 Lidane  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 8:03:02pm

re: #95 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

I admit I couldn’t stomach his entire “open letter” to Brazil, but after the first two paragraphs I’m pretty well convinced that he genuinely believes he is the single most important person in the world.

Of course he’s the most important person in the world. He’s got dudebros all over the internet like Sirota who are blowing smoke up his ass and calling him a hero and a whistleblower.

People are calling for him to get the Presidential Medal of Freedom (yes, really!) and for him to be allowed to travel freely wherever he wants and also earn a living doing whatever he wants for whatever paycheck he wants. You know, because that’s what the American government does when someone steals almost 2 million classified documents and flees the country.

I actually had Sirota tweet at me that it was understandable that Snowden would flee from a government that brags about TEH DRONEZ and imprisons its own citizens. Which totally explains why Snowden ran to Russia. Or something. Because that’s what important whistleblowers do.

98 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 8:04:24pm

re: #96 RealityBasedSteve

Yikes.

99 ObserverArt  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 8:06:32pm

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

Yikes.

Yet, not one mention of gunz!

///

100 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 8:14:33pm

re: #96 RealityBasedSteve

Might want to edit that. Charles doesn’t like even having that kind of thing implied here.

101 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 8:14:33pm

re: #99 ObserverArt

Yet, not one mention of gunz!

///

Well, for that we’ve got this:

Image: honey-badger-spikes-tactical-lower.jpg

Story is here. And if you want to make use of that “don’t give a shit” selector position, get yourself a Tac-Con 3MR trigger group you’ll be all set to rock and roll.

102 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 8:15:32pm

re: #100 William Barnett-Lewis

Might want to edit that. Charles doesn’t like even having that kind of thing implied here.

Thanks for the reminder, Will. i deleted my quote of that post.

103 Mentis Fugit  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 8:18:41pm

re: #85 jonhendry

My understanding is that he was able edit logs, and he also was able to get his coworkers to give him their passwords, so he was able to log in as them and get files he couldn’t access under his own account. Apparently they just trusted him.

If true, that is possibly the most astounding thing I can imagine. The incompetence of his colleagues is utterly gobsmacking.

104 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 8:18:48pm

re: #100 William Barnett-Lewis

Might want to edit that. Charles doesn’t like even having that kind of thing implied here.

Done. Thank you.

RBS

105 Lidane  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 8:18:50pm

re: #96 RealityBasedSteve

Pencil is yer friend. Might want to edit, RBS.

106 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 8:24:25pm

re: #104 RealityBasedSteve

Done. Thank you.

RBS

No problem. More than once I’ve muttered that “I’d be banned if I said what I’m thinking”… ;)

107 sagehen  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 8:35:54pm

OT for TV talk.

Tonight’s ep of “Person of Interest” was an awesome cliffhanger, setting up an even more awesome storyline for when they come back with the second half of the season.

Also… Hawaii Five-0 last week, their take on a Japanese interment episode. Much better done than I’d have thought possible for such a fluffy show.

108 jaunte  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 8:44:08pm
109 jaunte  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 8:47:47pm
110 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 8:48:48pm

re: #108 jaunte

[Embedded content]

There is a slight chance that I won’t be on LGF any more, if I win the MegaMillions I’m outta here like that fat kid in a game of dodgeball.

..
..
..
..
..
Ok, I’m back. (and still not part of the .0000001%)

RBS

111 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 8:50:16pm

re: #109 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Jaunte, I bet if you set your mind to it you could get the little boat. Not the BIG little boat, but the little boat that’s on the little boat.

RBS

112 jaunte  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 8:51:57pm

re: #111 RealityBasedSteve

My mind’s capable of a canoe, I think.

113 jaunte  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 8:56:13pm

Suddenly the former winner of $636 million has prize money cut in half, feels like the biggest loser…

114 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 8:56:43pm

115 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 8:58:39pm

re: #112 jaunte

My mind’s capable of a canoe, I think.

I’m not sure where the line is that defines “Wretched Excess”, but if that’s a private yacht I’m pretty sure that boat is on the far side of it. I’m not a big ‘boat guy’, my limited experience with them is that they are holes in the ground you pour money into.

RBS

116 jvic  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 9:08:27pm

re: #96 RealityBasedSteve

In other words, everything from security 101 was just blown to bits. I wonder how much of it was due to the fact that in RL security is supposed to KEEP things from happening, so people who know the systems come up with ways to bypass to make their life easy.

I once worked in a very modestly classified environment. My limited contacts with security people gave me the impression they thought the rules didn’t apply to them.

(Another example: John Deutch, while head of the CIA, got in trouble for keeping classified documents on his unclassified laptop. No charges were brought.)

117 wheat-dogghazi  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 9:21:29pm

re: #94 Dark_Falcon

And now ‘Daedalus’ AKA ‘Rodan’ AKA Dorkus has decided to post a Stalker thread attacking me for posting a Page that got promoted. I won’t link to the Stalkers, but I will say that Dorkus got my point wrong:

I didn’t throw the Republicans under the bus, and I wasn’t expecting the Page to be promoted (though I was happy that Charles did so). My intent was to call attention to what I felt was a serious problem. To quote from the article that was the Page’s topic:

SNIP

I’m a problem solver, and I posted that Page because I saw a problem that needed to be explained before it could be solved.

I’m not a Republican, but I agree with you. The GOP approach is all wrong. Instead of choosing a competitive candidate that would appeal to moderates and independents, the GOP has let the radical wing take over and run fringe candidates who only appeal to the radical base. Then, to hide the radical nature of these fringe candidates from public view, the GOP shields them from non-partisan scrutiny, hoping no one will notice the truth. Before the Internet and video, that might have worked, but hiding a candidate’s past statements and actions is impossible now. Sooner or later, some dirt will be dug up, and pow! Goodbye, viability.

The GOP of my father’s time chose candidates that had a ghost of a chance. I’m afraid even Barry Goldwater would be too moderate for today’s GOP primaries.

118 wheat-dogghazi  Tue, Dec 17, 2013 9:29:28pm

re: #97 Lidane

Of course he’s the most important person in the world. He’s got dudebros all over the internet like Sirota who are blowing smoke up his ass and calling him a hero and a whistleblower.

People are calling for him to get the Presidential Medal of Freedom (yes, really!) and for him to be allowed to travel freely wherever he wants and also earn a living doing whatever he wants for whatever paycheck he wants. You know, because that’s what the American government does when someone steals almost 2 million classified documents and flees the country.

I actually had Sirota tweet at me that it was understandable that Snowden would flee from a government that brags about TEH DRONEZ and imprisons its own citizens. Which totally explains why Snowden ran to Russia. Or something. Because that’s what important whistleblowers do.

What burns me about Sirota and the other dudebros is the blinkers they wear. China, Russia, North Korea … plenty of other countries in the world would have tracked down Snowden wherever he lay and terminated him. Moreover, “whistleblowers” in such places don’t get very far. They get locked up, or disappear forever. Even Brazil has its problems regarding civil rights and free expression.

Yet, all they ever bitch about is the USA, the NSA and the “oppressive regime” restricting Snowden’s mobility. I mean, all he did was steal lots of classified documents. No big deal, right?

119 urbanmeemaw  Wed, Dec 18, 2013 1:59:07am

re: #80 Lord of the Pies

Just like David Sirota is a “journalist”.

120 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Dec 18, 2013 2:10:54am

re: #75 Political Atheist

re: #73 Killgore Trout

ah!

121 BusyMonster  Wed, Dec 18, 2013 6:12:01am

re: #13 spiderx

say what you want about Snowden but at least he exposed the shockingly creepy behavior the NSA was up to.

Yea, he just gave documents that may or may not contain my life history to one of the more corrupt nations on the planet, where con-artists openly and arrogantly run the government.

That is what I want to say about Snowden. I already fucking knew what the NSA was up to. This was common knowledge over 10 years ago. Anybody who pretends this wasn’t blatantly obvious has clearly not logged onto the internet or watched a single movie over the last decade. I didn’t need Snowden’s contribution to this discussion, and the company he’s keeping makes him look like a fucking tool.


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