Discovery Institute in JPost: Darwin Led to Hitler

Opinion • Views: 9,824

David Klinghoffer of the anti-evolution Discovery Institute has an opinion column in the Jerusalem Post, attacking Jewish groups like the ADL for protesting against Pope Benedict’s reinstatement of Holocaust-denying Bishop Richard Williamson. Klinghoffer calls it “whining:” The wages of whining.

But the real purpose of Klinghoffer’s column is to attempt to redirect Jewish anger toward the Discovery Institute’s main target: the theory of evolution.

Meanwhile, Jewish groups continue to pillory the Christian churches for their alleged guilt in fomenting the Holocaust. That’s despite the fact that Hitler himself clearly dismissed as ineffective any fancied strategy to try to whip up Germans with appeals to punish the Christ-killers. In Mein Kampf, an influential best-seller, he relied on the language of Darwinian biology to declare a race war against the Jews.

Up pops another long-debunked creationist talking point that refuses to die: that Darwin’s theory of evolution led directly to Hitler and the Third Reich. Creationists have been violating Godwin’s Law with this canard for decades, and the Discovery Institute reveals their creationist heritage by continuing in this tradition.

The problem with this idea is simple—it’s not true. Klinghoffer claims that Mein Kampf uses “the language of Darwinian biology,” but in fact, Charles Darwin and the theory of natural selection are not mentioned even once in Mein Kampf. Klinghoffer’s claim is just short of an outright lie.

Here’s a page at the Expelled Exposed website with more information on this scurrilous and false creationist talking point: Hitler & Eugenics.

Since the 1920s, a narrow group of Christians who rejected the modernizing changes made by mainstream Protestants, have wrongly tried to blame evolution for what they see as the ills of modern society. World War I, atheism, and communism have all been attributed to evolution. After World War II, this narrow group added Nazism and Fascism to the horrors supposedly caused by evolution. Such claims occur in the writings of the young-earth creationist Henry M. Morris, a founder of the modern creation science movement, and have been repeated by “intelligent design” promoters and creationist Christian organizations such as Answers in Genesis, the Institute for Creation Research, and Coral Ridge Ministries.

Understanding the history of Nazi Germany and how the Holocaust could happen is obviously a very serious, and, in an era when ethnic cleansing and genocide are resurgent, a critically important subject. The public interest is not well-served by the efforts of sectarian groups to advance their own narrow agendas through distorted and simplistic explanations of horrific events.

But Klinghoffer’s false equivalence is even more thoroughly destroyed by the fact that the Nazis banned Darwin’s books: When Books Burn: Lists of Banned Books, 1933-1939.

Guidelines from Die Bücherei 2:6 (1935), p. 279

1. The works of traitors, emigrants and authors from foreign countries who believe they can attack and denigrate the new German (H.G. Wells, Rolland).

2. The literature of Marxism, Communism and Bolshevism.

3. Pacifist literature.

4. Literature with liberal, democratic tendencies and attitudes, and writing supporting the Weimar Republic (Rathenau, Heinrich Mann).

5. All historical writings whose purpose is to denigrate the origin, the spirit and the culture of the German Volk, or to dissolve the racial and structural order of the Volk, or that denies the force and importance of leading historical figures in favor of egalitarianism and the masses, and which seeks to drag them through the mud (Emil Ludwig).

6. Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (Häckel).

Klinghoffer’s piece is nothing more than a creepy, dishonest attempt to use this current controversy over Holocaust denial to smear the scientific theory of natural selection.

Jump to bottom

526 comments
1 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 11:53:09am

Surely the Israeli population is educated enough to debunk this nonsense.

2 brookly red  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 11:53:09am

OY, wtf

3 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 11:53:20am

The anti-Science and anti-Semitic crusades merge.

4 Wyatt Earp  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 11:54:32am

Mein Kampf is an influential best-seller like The View is intelligent, thought-provoking television.

5 jcm  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 11:54:53am

Eugenics was / is a bastard step child of Darwin. The misappropriation and misapplication of Darwin by the racist and power hunger lead to Eugenics.

6 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 11:55:07am
That’s despite the fact that Hitler himself clearly dismissed as ineffective any fancied strategy to try to whip up Germans with appeals to punish the Christ-killers.


Pretty much tells you where the article is coming from.

7 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 11:55:13am

Ah, an evolution thread. Now I can get a chance to try out my new aluminum cluebat. Ok, trolls, I'm ready for you.

8 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 11:55:14am

This is nothing less than a full-blown Religious Crusade against Civilization itself.

9 WriterMom  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 11:55:39am
10 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 11:55:50am

re: #6 jwb7605

Pretty much tells you where the article is coming from.

Something from the cesspool?

11 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 11:56:08am

re: #3 FurryOldGuyJeans

The anti-Science and anti-Semitic crusades merge.

A true moronic convergance.

12 brookly red  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 11:56:33am

re: #4 Wyatt Earp

Mein Kampf is an influential best-seller like The View is intelligent, thought-provoking television.

the fact that can compare the 2 is, is, is really cool.

13 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 11:57:55am

I don't get how he thinks that attacking those who are offended by Holocaust denial is gonna' win him any points.

14 Racer X  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 11:58:23am

Can someone please contact the Vogon overlords and politely ask them to stop beaming "Dumb-Ass Rays" down here?

Because shit is just getting ridiculous.

15 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 11:58:33am

re: #13 MandyManners

I don't get how he thinks that attacking those who are offended by Holocaust denial is gonna' win him any points.

He doesn't think, obviously. ;)

16 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 11:59:16am
17 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 11:59:19am

The twisting of scientific theories into murderous agendas by demagogues led to the abuses of the Nazis - not the science itself.

Ironically - David Klinghoffer of the anti-evolution Discovery Institute seem to be using demagoguery and twisting of evidence to promote their position.

Is it just me or has it become a sick trend to bash Jews and their supporters by comparing them to Hitler?

Got projection?

18 Ojoe  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 11:59:26am

Before Darwin, no group tried to get rid of another group.

////

19 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 11:59:38am

re: #9 WriterMom

OT: Is this possible or baloney?

I am sure it is bullshit

20 brookly red  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 11:59:46am

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

I live in NYC... can I get one & do I gotta register it?

21 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:00:02pm

Quit bitching about those who deny your history so that I can sell you this shiney, lying trinket about the man who made your history bleak last century.

Does that about sum it up?

22 godfrey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:00:07pm

What did Hitler say about Aryans? In what kinds of terms did he couch his bloviating about "Aryan superiority" &c.? Lamarckian? "Eugenics" [sic] was definitely a part of the completely despicable proceedings.

I've heard many things, but I haven't read his writings and genuinely do not know.

23 Racer X  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:00:17pm

re: #9 WriterMom

OT: Is this possible or baloney?

Satire.

24 Jack Burton  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:00:27pm

re: #14 Racer X

Can someone please contact the Vogon overlords and politely ask them to stop beaming "Dumb-Ass Rays" down here?

Because shit is just getting ridiculous.

They posted the "Dumb Ass Rays" notice at Alpha Centauri we just couldn't be bothered to go there to read it.

25 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:00:32pm

re: #9 WriterMom

OT: Is this possible or baloney?

It's complete baloney.

26 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:00:50pm

re: #5 jcm

Eugenics was / is a bastard step child of Darwin. The misappropriation and misapplication of Darwin by the racist and power hunger lead to Eugenics.

It is nearly impossible to find some past hero that didn't find the theory attractive, though.

The modern field and term were first formulated by Sir Francis Galton in 1883,[8] drawing on the recent work of his cousin Charles Darwin. From its inception eugenics was supported by prominent people, including H. G. Wells, Woodrow Wilson, Theodore Roosevelt, Emile Zola, George Bernard Shaw, John Maynard Keynes, William Keith Kellogg, Margaret Sanger, Winston Churchill, and Sidney Webb.[9][10][11] Its most infamous proponent and practitioner was however Adolf Hitler who praised and incorporated Eugenic ideas in Mein Kampf, and emulated Eugenic legislation for the sterilization of "defectives" that had been pioneered in the United States


(Wikipedia)
I've been dismayed to find Teddy Roosevelt and Winston Churchill on the list.
It is Wikipedia, though.

27 Racer X  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:01:25pm

re: #24 ArchangelMichael

They posted the "Dumb Ass Rays" notice at Alpha Centauri we just couldn't be bothered to go there to read it.

In the basement of the local planning prefect? I saw that.

28 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:01:32pm

re: #17 DaddyG

The twisting of scientific theories into murderous agendas by demagogues led to the abuses of the Nazis - not the science itself.

Ironically - David Klinghoffer of the anti-evolution Discovery Institute seem to be using demagoguery and twisting of evidence to promote their position.

Is it just me or has it become a sick trend to bash Jews and their supporters by comparing them to Hitler?

Got projection?

Definite trend to make the victims be the cause when it comes to Jews. When one has an Anti-Reason agenda to promote, anything can be conflated.

29 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:02:31pm

Charles says:
'Klinghoffer’s piece is nothing more than a creepy, dishonest attempt to use this current controversy over Holocaust denial to smear the scientific theory of natural selection.'

There's worse.
In addition, Klinghoffer implies that without Darwin and without his Theory of Evolution, there would have been no anti-semitism.

That however leads to the obviously wrong assumption that a belief in Creationism would mean there won't be any antisemitism.

Why is that assumption wrong?
Because the case of the Holocaust-denying Bishop illustrates perfectly that such a belief and anti-semitism actually go easily hand-in-hand.

30 Bubbaman  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:02:37pm

Some people have way too much time on their hands. 'nuff said.

31 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:02:38pm

re: #20 brookly red

I live in NYC... can I get one & do I gotta register it?

Yes, you can get one. If you have an account here, you are already registered to possess a cluebat.

32 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:02:45pm
33 godfrey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:02:51pm

re: #26 jwb7605

Wells was definitely bad in this respect. I've read a good bit of it.

I'm pleased to hear that Origin of Species is supposed to be a terrific piece of prose, in addition to having the obvious scientific value.

34 stuiec  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:03:08pm

re: #5 jcm

Eugenics was / is a bastard step child of Darwin. The misappropriation and misapplication of Darwin by the racist and power hunger lead to Eugenics.

Uhhh... no. Eugenics is thge misappropriation and misapplication of animal husbandry. Not surprising that a nation that developed many breeds of dogs for various purposes would turn their attention to the creation of a purebred New German Man.

Darwin's theory that nature shapes species through competition for opportunities to propagate has little or nothing to do with the Nazi program of human control over human genetic variation.

35 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:03:30pm

re: #23 Racer X

Satire.

I sure hope so because the site in question has links that jump to a few sites that are promoting this as something factual.

36 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:03:39pm

re: #29 yma o hyd

Charles says:
'Klinghoffer’s piece is nothing more than a creepy, dishonest attempt to use this current controversy over Holocaust denial to smear the scientific theory of natural selection.'

There's worse.
In addition, Klinghoffer implies that without Darwin and without his Theory of Evolution, there would have been no anti-semitism.

That however leads to the obviously wrong assumption that a belief in Creationism would mean there won't be any antisemitism.

Why is that assumption wrong?
Because the case of the Holocaust-denying Bishop illustrates perfectly that such a belief and anti-semitism actually go easily hand-in-hand.

Also, anti-Semitism predates Darwin by hundreds and hundreds of years.

37 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:04:01pm

re: #1 MandyManners

Surely the Israeli population is educated enough to debunk this nonsense.

I'm sure they know about the doctrine of "Social Darwinism" but probably don't pin it on Darwin.

We covered in at TAU.

38 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:04:09pm

Photographic PROOF that Darwin is a Nazi

39 godfrey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:04:31pm

It's like re-living the Victorian Age all over again.

*sigh*

Well, at least there may be knickers.

40 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:05:13pm

re: #37 Ben Hur

I'm sure they know about the doctrine of "Social Darwinism" but probably don't pin it on Darwin.

We covered in at TAU.

TAU?

41 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:05:22pm

re: #36 MandyManners

Also, anti-Semitism predates Darwin by hundreds and hundreds of years.

By thousands of years.

42 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:05:22pm
43 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:05:52pm

re: #39 godfrey

It's like re-living the Victorian Age all over again.

*sigh*

Well, at least there may be knickers.

I ain't wearing no whale-bone corset.

44 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:05:56pm

re: #25 Charles

It's complete baloney.

So this is one of the more egregious examples of a blossoming ODS?

I ask that because there are other sites promoting the article as something factual, akin to the 9/11 troofers.

45 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:05:58pm

re: #40 MandyManners

Tel Aviv University, BABY!

46 Kenneth  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:06:03pm

re: #29 yma o hyd

In addition, Klinghoffer implies that without Darwin and without his Theory of Evolution, there would have been no anti-semitism.

Excellent point.

I'm pretty sure Antisemitism predated the Origin of the Species by a few years.

47 J.S.  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:06:05pm

I had a different interpretation of the Klinghoffer JPost article...As I understand it, Klinghoffer was attempting to make the point that if the ADL constantly cries foul for every trivial, imagined, "misdeed" of antisemitism, then eventually, their complaints (when a real problem arises) will be dismissed...similiar to the "boy who cried 'wolf'." Thus, Klinghoffer's penultimate and final statements read: "Therefore when a real issue of concern arises, as in the Williamson affair, we have little on which to draw. Under circumstances like these, some Christians will listen politely but then turn away, citing technicalities."

This interpretation of Klinghoffer's article, of course, does not address any of the DI anti-Darwinianism present in the article (which Charles points out).

48 godfrey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:06:17pm

I wish the Discovery Institute would just get perdido.

49 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:06:20pm
50 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:06:25pm

re: #41 Alouette

By thousands of years.

So, where does this jerk get off trying to spread this utter hokum?

51 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:06:39pm

re: #45 Ben Hur

Tel Aviv University, BABY!

Mascot?

52 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:06:46pm

re: #36 MandyManners

Also, anti-Semitism predates Darwin by hundreds and hundreds of years.

Gah - facts ... what do they matter when one can have something else to blame Darwin for!

53 DeafDog  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:06:52pm

re: #9 WriterMom

OT: Is this possible or baloney?

It's baloney, but that photo is hilariously funny.

54 stuiec  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:07:05pm

re: #36 MandyManners

Also, anti-Semitism predates Darwin by hundreds and hundreds of years.

Thousands. Arguably it started with Laban seeking to destroy the tribe of Jacob.

55 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:07:05pm

re: #46 Kenneth

Excellent point.

I'm pretty sure Antisemitism predated the Origin of the Species by a few years.


What did they call a "photographic memory" before the invention of the photograph?

56 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:07:07pm

re: #50 MandyManners

So, where does this jerk get off trying to spread this utter hokum?

Enough people have no clue that what he is spouting is hokum.

57 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:07:15pm
58 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:07:27pm

re: #51 MandyManners

Mascot?

Marx.

HAHAHAHAHAH!

(Not all of them)

59 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:07:31pm
A point I try to impress on my children is one that the Jewish community would do well to consider. If you spend a day continually whining about trivia, by the end of the day, even if you've got something legitimate to complain about, mommy and daddy aren't going to be in a frame of mind to listen to you very seriously. This lesson can be difficult for a little kid to grasp.
Pope Benedict XVI...


The Anti-Defamation League has a hard time with it, too, ...


How condescending.

60 BigMoo  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:07:58pm

OT-Can someone please advise on the accuracy of the story linked on the LGF news links section about the proposal to require our our troops to pledge allegiance to the President, instead of the Constitution ? No way most of our troops would do this-especially for this man...

61 Jonathan Constantine  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:08:02pm

re: #36 MandyManners


The point is not Darwin per say or whether he was mentioned in Mein Kampf (Darwin wasn't anti-Christian), the point is the moral superiority of science over Catholicism. Which is in fact untrue. Hitler saw Christianity as an obstacle to "science."

62 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:08:09pm

re: #34 stuiec

Uhhh... no. Eugenics is thge misappropriation and misapplication of animal husbandry. Not surprising that a nation that developed many breeds of dogs for various purposes would turn their attention to the creation of a purebred New German Man.

Darwin's theory that nature shapes species through competition for opportunities to propagate has little or nothing to do with the Nazi program of human control over human genetic variation.

upding. Even though you missspeled thge.

63 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:08:12pm

re: #32 taxfreekiller

Who, What, When, Where?

[Link:

64 Kenneth  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:08:36pm

Turkish PM Erdogen is a Creationist (Islamic version)
He is also antisemitic.

65 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:08:39pm

re: #60 BigMoo

OT-Can someone please advise on the accuracy of the story linked on the LGF news links section about the proposal to require our our troops to pledge allegiance to the President, instead of the Constitution ? No way most of our troops would do this-especially for this man...

Bullshit.

66 Racer X  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:08:53pm

re: #42 buzzsawmonkey

I don't accept that Darwin led to Hitler any more than I accept that Duke Ellington led to Fifty Cent.

LMAO!

67 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:08:54pm

re: #60 BigMoo

OT-Can someone please advise on the accuracy of the story linked on the LGF news links section about the proposal to require our our troops to pledge allegiance to the President, instead of the Constitution ? No way most of our troops would do this-especially for this man...

It is NOT TRUE. The article about the "Obama pledge" is a SATIRE.

Good grief. Here we go again.

68 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:09:02pm

re: #64 Kenneth

Turkish PM Erdogen is a Creationist (Islamic version)
He is also antisemitic.


BUT ARABS ARE SEMITES!


hahahahah!

69 BigMoo  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:09:12pm

re: #65 Ben Hur

My thoughts exactly !

[Link: patdollard.com...]

70 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:09:27pm

re: #60 BigMoo

OT-Can someone please advise on the accuracy of the story linked on the LGF news links section about the proposal to require our our troops to pledge allegiance to the President, instead of the Constitution ? No way most of our troops would do this-especially for this man...

It's a spoof.

71 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:09:32pm

re: #46 Kenneth

Excellent point.

I'm pretty sure Antisemitism predated the Origin of the Species by a few years.

Yeah, just a few ... neither here nor there when one promotes the idea that humans and dinosaurs walked the earth together!

Just the same stunning disregard for facts and actual time scales.

72 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:09:36pm

Is Mein Kampf taught in any Israeli university?

73 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:09:36pm
74 BigMoo  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:09:50pm

re: #67 Charles

Thanks-figured it had to be-but it sure caught my attention. lol

75 J.S.  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:09:54pm

re: #60 BigMoo

O please, this was gone over and over again yesterday already. It's utter crap! Please!

76 Jonathan Constantine  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:10:22pm

Hitler killed in the name of Science not Christianity. What were the scientists doing Europe while Pope Pius XII was saving the Jews from the Holocaust?

77 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:10:25pm

re: #75 J.S.

O please, this was gone over and over again yesterday already. It's utter crap! Please!

Linkie for that, please.

78 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:10:29pm

re: #61 Jonathan Constantine

The point is not Darwin per say or whether he was mentioned in Mein Kampf (Darwin wasn't anti-Christian), the point is the moral superiority of science over Catholicism. Which is in fact untrue. Hitler saw Christianity as an obstacle to "science."

Because he knew that *his* kind of science was anti-Christian.

79 Kenneth  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:10:38pm

re: #9 WriterMom

OT: Is this possible or baloney?

What's with the Star of David on Obama's podium?

80 BigMoo  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:10:42pm

re: #75 J.S.

Wasn't on yesterday-can't live on my laptop.

81 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:10:51pm
NO ONE should minimize the good that the ADL and other Jewish anti-defamation groups have accomplished in publicizing Muslim anti-Semitism. But they have also done great damage to Jewish-Christian relations by making a habit of attacking Catholics and Protestants, sometimes in hysterical terms, on matters about which Jews have no business complaining.

The arrogance is amazing.

82 gmsc  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:11:16pm

People involved in spreading Darwin's discoveries as a philosophy, whom the Discovery Institute will mysteriously neglect to mention:
Ernst Haeckel
William Sumner
Vladmir Ulyanov

83 brookly red  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:11:34pm

re: #73 Iron Fist

You yankees and your foolish weapons laws...

and now blommie wants to ban salt... seeesh.

84 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:11:38pm

re: #79 Kenneth

What's with the Star of David on Obama's podium?

Some over-the-top satire that is being treated as serious by some 'net denizens.

85 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:11:55pm

re: #79 Kenneth

What's with the Star of David on Obama's podium?

I hadn't noticed that. Nice touch

86 ice-9  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:12:26pm

Godwin works in mysterious ways...

87 Kenneth  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:12:43pm

re: #67 Charles

Are you sure that really is satire and not just lunatic conspiracy mongering? It's getting hard to tell the nuts form the jokers these days.

88 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:12:56pm

re: #42 buzzsawmonkey

I don't accept that Darwin led to Hitler any more than I accept that Duke Ellington led to Fifty Cent.

Good point.

Ellington was a mentor of big band composer and leader Quincy Jones and Be-bop drummer Max Roach who later respectively influenced R&B and Rap. They cannot however be blamed for what hooligans did with the art form.

89 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:13:13pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

The arrogance is amazing.

Yeah. Jews have no business complaining about a Holocaust denier. Moron.

90 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:13:20pm

re: #47 J.S.

I had a different interpretation of the Klinghoffer JPost article...As I understand it, Klinghoffer was attempting to make the point that if the ADL constantly cries foul for every trivial, imagined, "misdeed" of antisemitism, then eventually, their complaints (when a real problem arises) will be dismissed...similiar to the "boy who cried 'wolf'." Thus, Klinghoffer's penultimate and final statements read: "Therefore when a real issue of concern arises, as in the Williamson affair, we have little on which to draw. Under circumstances like these, some Christians will listen politely but then turn away, citing technicalities."

This interpretation of Klinghoffer's article, of course, does not address any of the DI anti-Darwinianism present in the article (which Charles points out).

Tbh, that was how I read it, to start with.
However, having already been told about the DI-Connection, my BS-ometer was on high alert - and then there it was: the Hitler-allegation.

Crafty, but not good enough.

Btw - its these sneaky, underhand attempts, hidden in what looks to be reasonably sensible discourse one's got to watch out for.

91 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:13:32pm

re: #79 Kenneth

I'm pretty tolerant of free speech (especially when it come to humor) but I'm not crazy about that photoshop.

92 stuiec  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:14:01pm

re: #68 Ben Hur

BUT ARABS ARE SEMITES!

hahahahah!

But TURKS are not ARABS!

T.E. Lawrence helped the Semitic Arabs revolt against the Turkic Turks and earned the title Lawrence of Arabia.

Now, since the Jews were the most identifiable and widely-dispersed group of Semites for most of the last 2,000 years, most anti-Semitism was Europeans hating on the Jews in their midst. The Muslim-on-Jew hating might require a different term in the cases where the Muslims are Arabs.

93 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:14:12pm

re: #87 Kenneth

Pat Dollard is a pretty smart guy. He's not a conspiracy nut.

94 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:14:21pm

re: #67 Charles

It is NOT TRUE. The article about the "Obama pledge" is a SATIRE.

Good grief. Here we go again.

The content of rumors aren't always accurate but their delivery system is perfect.

95 Jack Burton  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:14:38pm

re: #67 Charles

It is NOT TRUE. The article about the "Obama pledge" is a SATIRE.

Good grief. Here we go again.

Nirthers, The Next Generation.

96 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:14:51pm

re: #91 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty tolerant of free speech (especially when it come to humor) but I'm not crazy about that photoshop.

I'm okay with CBBHO's uniform but, WAB's attire is over the top--in fact, it smacks of racism to me.

97 Moonbat Serenade  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:15:06pm

All that article needed was torches and pitchforks.

98 BigMoo  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:15:27pm

re: #87 Kenneth

lol, You miss a day here and ya miss a LOT I guess. I finally had a minute to catch the site, saw that and thought 'no fricken way'...

99 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:15:34pm

re: #72 MandyManners

Is Mein Kampf taught in any Israeli university?


Of course.

TAU has an incredible Jewish History dept which is connected to [Link: www.tau.ac.il...]

100 MJ  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:16:00pm

Klinghoffer writes of The New Republic:

"...Others went further. In an article in The New Republic - Jewish-owned and edited..." -


This is antisemitic to it's core. Does anyone think that a magazine can be Jewishly edited? Does the very fact that a magazine is owned by a Jew automatically make it a "Jewish owned" property? Does Kilinghoffer identify Murdoch owned newspapers as being "Catholic owned"?

101 Kenneth  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:16:00pm

re: #76 Jonathan Constantine

Hitler killed in the name of Science not Christianity. What were the scientists doing Europe while Pope Pius XII was saving the Jews from the Holocaust?

WTF? Educate yourself before making an idiotic statement like that. There was absolutely nothing scientific about Naziism. It was a bizarre occult pseudo-pagan cult wrapped up with military fascism and racial chauvinism, laced with a nasty streak of religious bigotry.

102 SFGoth  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:16:08pm

Can we switch the Klinghoffer who was tossed overboard from the Achille Lauro?

103 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:16:23pm

re: #92 stuiec

But TURKS are not ARABS!

T.E. Lawrence helped the Semitic Arabs revolt against the Turkic Turks and earned the title Lawrence of Arabia.

Now, since the Jews were the most identifiable and widely-dispersed group of Semites for most of the last 2,000 years, most anti-Semitism was Europeans hating on the Jews in their midst. The Muslim-on-Jew hating might require a different term in the cases where the Muslims are Arabs.

I know.

I was thinking of his support of the Palis.

104 Racer X  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:16:28pm

re: #14 Racer X

Can someone please contact the Vogon overlords and politely ask them to stop beaming "Dumb-Ass Rays" down here?

Because shit is just getting ridiculous.

I'm gonna start selling tin-foil hats soon because way too many people are falling for complete and utter bullshit - look up-thread - and it just amazes me.

105 vagabond trader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:16:51pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

This guy knows nothing about Jews, we live to complain, it's almost an olympic event.

106 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:16:56pm

re: #99 Ben Hur

Of course.

TAU has an incredible Jewish History dept which is connected to [Link: www.tau.ac.il...]

Well, then, I reckon this DI nonsense is gonna' go over like a lead balloon.

107 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:17:10pm

re: #87 Kenneth

Are you sure that really is satire and not just lunatic conspiracy mongering? It's getting hard to tell the nuts form the jokers these days.

Like the photo of Obama in full military dictator uniform and Michelle in aunt Jemimah getup would not clue you in?

108 stuiec  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:17:20pm

re: #91 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty tolerant of free speech (especially when it come to humor) but I'm not crazy about that photoshop.

It's no worse than what The New Yorker ran on its cover. (And hardly anything compared to the images of Bush, Condi Rice, Cheney, et al, that the MSM has treated us to in the last eight years. Anyone think a website devoted to comparing Obama's photos to photos of apes would be a laff riot?)

109 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:17:28pm
110 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:17:37pm

So, let me get this straight:

Complaining about a Holocaust-denying troofer bishop is "whining". But using the factual Holocaust to bash Darwin is logical.

Which is it, Klinghoffer? If it's whiny to point out insidious Holocaust denial, that would imply that the Holocaust really wasn't so bad, right?

But to blame the Holocaust on Darwin implies that the Holocaust was really bad, or else why bother blaming it on him?

I'm so confused...

111 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:17:37pm

OT:
Looks like someone's playing backchannel negotiations with Iran. Who authorized it (Bush? Obama? Bush facilitating the incoming Obama administration?)? The timing is most curious.

Backchannel negotiating serves its purpose in foreign policy and helps facilitate foreign relations, but the timing and who was involved raises questions about what was involved.

112 mean Gene  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:17:40pm

Did Ben Stein write this?

113 avanti  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:18:06pm

Fifth round of votes for RNC chair, down to 3 candidates now.

114 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:18:09pm

re: #100 MJ

Klinghoffer writes of The New Republic:

"...Others went further. In an article in The New Republic - Jewish-owned and edited..." -

This is antisemitic to it's core. Does anyone think that a magazine can be Jewishly edited? Does the very fact that a magazine is owned by a Jew automatically make it a "Jewish owned" property? Does Kilinghoffer identify Murdoch owned newspapers as being "Catholic owned"?

Bad sick, that's what it is. The good news is that if the DI keeps up with talk like this, they'll end up in the political nut box, where they belong.

115 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:18:10pm

re: #101 Kenneth

WTF? Educate yourself before making an idiotic statement like that. There was absolutely nothing scientific about Naziism. It was a bizarre occult pseudo-pagan cult wrapped up with military fascism and racial chauvinism, laced with a nasty streak of religious bigotry.

Wasn't there an attempt to make anti-Semitism a "scientific theory"?

116 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:18:15pm

re: #106 MandyManners

Well, then, I reckon this DI nonsense is gonna' go over like a lead balloon.

I'm pretty sure that most Israelis don't read the J-m Post.

117 stuiec  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:18:25pm

re: #107 jwb7605

Like the photo of Obama in full military dictator uniform and Michelle in aunt Jemimah getup would not clue you in?

Not Aunt Jemima: Winnie Mandela.

118 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:18:36pm

I doubt if he has ever read The Origin of Species, or Mein Kampf, or any book, for that matter.

119 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:18:37pm

re: #104 Racer X

I'm gonna start selling tin-foil hats soon because way too many people are falling for complete and utter bullshit - look up-thread - and it just amazes me.

Tin foil hats may not be as effective as you want.

The clue bat may be a better solution.

120 Racer X  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:18:40pm

How can American politicians continue to claim the economy is in danger of collapse when they vote for pork barrel spending on shit that is absolutely wasteful?

Have they no shame at all?

121 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:18:52pm

re: #107 jwb7605

Like the photo of Obama in full military dictator uniform and Michelle in aunt Jemimah getup would not clue you in?

Considering the tripe we saw with Bush the past 8 years this is utterly unremarkable. And does fit in with the general mindset of conspiracy believers.

122 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:18:57pm

re: #76 Jonathan Constantine

Hitler killed in the name of Science not Christianity. What were the scientists doing Europe while Pope Pius XII was saving the Jews from the Holocaust?

He did not kill 'in the name of science' - he killed 'in the name' of anti-semitism, a perfidious part of racism. That this was clad in words of pseudo-science does not mean his reasons were scientifically based.
Scienists were involved not because of science but because of the same antisemitism.

123 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:18:59pm
but in fact, Charles Darwin and the theory of natural selection are not mentioned even once in Mein Kampf

"Would you believe... 'the Lamarckian connection to Mussolini'?"

/Maxwell Smart voice

124 brookly red  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:19:01pm

re: #104 Racer X

I'm gonna start selling tin-foil hats soon because way too many people are falling for complete and utter bullshit - look up-thread - and it just amazes me.

Ooooh, make sure that you display the warning not to wear it while using a cell phone...

125 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:19:09pm

re: #100 MJ

Klinghoffer writes of The New Republic:

"...Others went further. In an article in The New Republic - Jewish-owned and edited..." -

This is antisemitic to it's core. Does anyone think that a magazine can be Jewishly edited? Does the very fact that a magazine is owned by a Jew automatically make it a "Jewish owned" property? Does Kilinghoffer identify Murdoch owned newspapers as being "Catholic owned"?

Klinghoffer writes for The Forward. How much more "Jewish-owned and edited" can you get and still be so ferociously Jew hating?

126 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:19:10pm

re: #117 stuiec

Not Aunt Jemima: Winnie Mandela.

Winnie Mandela owns a syrup company?
///

127 jcm  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:19:11pm

re: #26 jwb7605

(Wikipedia)
I've been dismayed to find Teddy Roosevelt and Winston Churchill on the list.
It is Wikipedia, though.

On the surface, the "betterment of" or the for "the good of society" might seem attractive. With the application of a little "animal husbandry" in our breeding when can make big improvements in the human stock.

Once you get past the "ohh this might be good" surface it becomes a nightmare very quickly. We (collectively) are very good at not looking past the surface, until a "good idea" becomes the nightmare and correcting the "good idea" is far worse the the original problem.

128 J.S.  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:19:24pm

re: #77 FurryOldGuyJeans

Your text to link... Also scroll down to Charles' comment a little further on. It's in the Thread: "FBI cuts off CAIR"...

129 BigMoo  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:19:32pm

re: #118 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I thought it was Winnie, but saw no burning tires hung around people's necks...

130 FrogMarch  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:19:34pm

Disgusting.

131 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:19:47pm

re: #104 Racer X

I'm gonna start selling tin-foil hats soon because way too many people are falling for complete and utter bullshit - look up-thread - and it just amazes me.

I think I've found your spokeswoman, Cynthia Spankhurtz.

132 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:20:35pm

re: #120 Racer X

How can American politicians continue to claim the economy is in danger of collapse when they vote for pork barrel spending on shit that is absolutely wasteful?

Have they no shame at all?

Are you kidding? Given the pork Congress passes, they left their collective sense of shame a long way back. It is shameful, though.

133 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:20:36pm

re: #128 J.S.

Your text to link... Also scroll down to Charles' comment a little further on. It's in the Thread: "FBI cuts off CAIR"...

Nice to read some logic and facts when dealing with possible bullshit, my thanks. :)

134 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:20:36pm

Klingohoffer

Sounds like a JEW

135 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:20:41pm

re: #105 vagabond trader

This guy knows nothing about Jews, we live to complain, it's almost an olympic event.

"The food was terrible."
"And such small portions, too."
/Woody Allen

136 Racer X  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:20:43pm

re: #119 DaddyG

Tin foil hats may not be as effective as you want.

The clue bat may be a better solution.

Hmm.. I think further study may be needed. I can probably get Obama to allocate a Million or two for additional research.

137 gmsc  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:20:54pm

re: #126 jwb7605

Winnie Mandela owns a syrup company?
///

It's bigger than that. Ever wonder where the "Winn" comes from in "Winn-Dixie"?
;)

138 jcm  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:20:54pm

re: #60 BigMoo

OT-Can someone please advise on the accuracy of the story linked on the LGF news links section about the proposal to require our our troops to pledge allegiance to the President, instead of the Constitution ? No way most of our troops would do this-especially for this man...


The Presidential Pledge is a bunch of Hollyweird moonbats with no sense, and less understanding of 3rd grade civics.

It's not for the military, moonbats only.

139 monkeytime  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:20:55pm

OT: anyone in the Seattle area feel the Shake Rattle and Roll?

140 stuiec  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:21:03pm

re: #103 Ben Hur

I know.

I was thinking of his support of the Palis.

I wonder whether the Palis are nearly as supportive of Turkey, like for instance when Islamofascists commit terrorist acts in Istanbul. Maybe there is video of Hamas folk tossing candies to the kiddies in celebration of one of those attacks.

141 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:21:23pm

re: #120 Racer X

How can American politicians continue to claim the economy is in danger of collapse when they vote for pork barrel spending on shit that is absolutely wasteful?

Have they no shame at all?

For the same reason that anyone claiming that the Gaza humanitarian aid situation is in such a crisis that Egypt has delayed its summit until March. Actions speak louder than words.

It isn't as bad as they make it out to be.

Democrats are trying to profit and impose wholesale changes to the US economy in one fell swoop. They have the numbers to make it happen too, and fixing that disaster will take decades to sort out as well, but the damage will have been done.

142 BigMoo  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:21:23pm

re: #104 Racer X

"Falling for ?" No- curious about the context of the link ? Yes. Guess we can't all be as 'enlightened' as you.

143 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:21:27pm

re: #120 Racer X

...American politicians...
Have they no shame at all?

Is this a trick question?

144 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:21:37pm

re: #73 Iron Fist

You yankees and your foolish weapons laws...

Foolish humans Rebs! Your superior weapons are no match for our puny intellects!


/with apologies to Kang & Kodos

145 stuiec  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:21:58pm

re: #134 Ben Hur

Klingohoffer

Sounds like a JEW

I believe he WAS a Jew and converted to Catholicism.

146 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:22:02pm

re: #116 Ben Hur

I'm pretty sure that most Israelis don't read the J-m Post.

Who's the target audience? American Jews? Aren't they as educated as the Israelis?

I just cannot fathom what this asshole was trying to do with his article since he seems to have his audience mis-cast.

147 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:22:04pm

re: #140 stuiec


It pisses me off more that I know some HOT Turkish chicks.

148 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:22:08pm

re: #134 Ben Hur

Klingohoffer

Sounds like a JEW

A Jewish Klingon, to be precise. And you know how they are.

149 Kragar  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:22:08pm

We are in dark times and then end of them is nowhere in sight

150 mean Gene  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:22:08pm

Just because Darwin's theory gives ammunition to Eugenics theorists doesn't mean he meant to lead the human race there.
Who was it who coined the phrase, ''the Law of Unintended Consequences?"
Whoever it was, that ''law'' certainly applies to this.
And it often applies to so many other failures in ideologies, like when Lyndon Johnson set up the Great Society to save the poor blacks and ended up creating a fatherless generation as an unintended consequence.

151 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:22:16pm

re: #100 MJ

Klinghoffer writes of The New Republic:

"...Others went further. In an article in The New Republic - Jewish-owned and edited..." -

This is antisemitic to it's core. Does anyone think that a magazine can be Jewishly edited? Does the very fact that a magazine is owned by a Jew automatically make it a "Jewish owned" property? Does Kilinghoffer identify Murdoch owned newspapers as being "Catholic owned"?

Well spotted!

That just confirms my theory (heh - its not like Darwins, no scientific proof, ok, yah?) that Antisemitism, or Jew-Hate, will out, never mind how hard peole try to hide it behind rational, measured discourse and reasoning.

152 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:22:18pm

re: #117 stuiec

Not Aunt Jemima: Winnie Mandela.

THAT'S IT!

153 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:22:19pm

re: #121 FurryOldGuyJeans

Considering the tripe we saw with Bush the past 8 years this is utterly unremarkable. And does fit in with the general mindset of conspiracy believers.

When searching the 'net, I look for
* obvious tomfoolery in photos
* obvious slanted catch phrases
* links to well-known extremist sites
* links to verifiable facts

Which means less than 25% of things I see I am willing to accept at face value.
Hence, my 48-hour rule on the woman with 8 (14 total) babies we were discussing this morning.

154 vagabond trader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:22:36pm

re: #135 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

And soooo neurotic. Oy!

155 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:22:36pm

re: #120 Racer X

How can American politicians continue to claim the economy is in danger of collapse when they vote for pork barrel spending on shit that is absolutely wasteful?

Have they no shame at all?

Shame? That presumes Dems have a sense of ethics and morals. Their only concern is getting and staying in power. That trumps any other consideration.

156 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:23:03pm

re: #138 jcm

The Presidential Pledge is a bunch of Hollyweird moonbats with no sense, and less understanding of 3rd grade civics.

It's not for the military, moonbats only.

See Iowahawk's devastatingly funny take on "The Pledge."

157 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:23:14pm

re: #146 MandyManners

Who's the target audience? American Jews? Aren't they as educated as the Israelis?

I just cannot fathom what this asshole was trying to do with his article since he seems to have his audience mis-cast.

Any English speaking ex-pat or tourist.

I think he thinks his audience is American Joos.

158 stuiec  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:23:37pm

re: #129 BigMoo

I thought it was Winnie, but saw no burning tires hung around people's necks...

Or soccer playing teens stomped into the ground. Hmmm... the pancake shape and the waffle pattern of the boot prints could be the syrup connection.

159 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:23:43pm

re: #94 DaddyG

The content of rumors aren't always accurate but their delivery system is perfect.

Here's an image of the rumor delivery system by the great German satirical artist A. Paul Weber.

160 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:24:08pm

re: #148 Occasional Reader

A Jewish Klingon, to be precise. And you know how they are.


Yes yes.

Always hanging around Uranus.

161 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:24:22pm

re: #145 stuiec

I believe he WAS a Jew and converted to Catholicism.

A Cashew?

162 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:24:24pm

re: #131 MandyManners I don't care who you are - that there's funny stuff!

163 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:24:43pm

re: #146 MandyManners

Who's the target audience? American Jews? Aren't they as educated as the Israelis?

I just cannot fathom what this asshole was trying to do with his article since he seems to have his audience mis-cast.

The Jerusalem Post's target audience is the English speaking population in Israel. That is why most Hebrew speaking Israelis don't read it on a regular basis. Most American Jews who read it picked up the habit when they were in Israel.

164 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:24:46pm

re: #61 Jonathan Constantine

The point is not Darwin per say or whether he was mentioned in Mein Kampf (Darwin wasn't anti-Christian), the point is the moral superiority of science over Catholicism. Which is in fact untrue. Hitler saw Christianity as an obstacle to "science."

Mien Kampf has 55 references to god, 47 mentions of Christ/Christianity. References to Darwin? 0.

165 Racer X  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:24:56pm

re: #142 BigMoo

"Falling for ?" No- curious about the context of the link ? Yes. Guess we can't all be as 'enlightened' as you.

I was actually referring to the comments in those links. I should have been more clear.

Sorry if you took offense.

166 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:25:02pm

re: #157 Ben Hur

Any English speaking ex-pat or tourist.

I think he thinks his audience is American Joos.

He really is stupid, isn't he?

167 stuiec  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:25:16pm

re: #147 Ben Hur

It pisses me off more that I know some HOT Turkish chicks.

Hot Turkish chicks are really, REALLY hot. My uncle traveled extensively in the Middle East, and one well-known expression used by Arab men to compliment a woman's sexual prowess is, "She f**ks like a Turk."

168 BigMoo  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:25:18pm

re: #158 stuiec

LMAO-"it's good to be King"...or queen.

169 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:25:18pm

re: #139 monkeytime

OT: anyone in the Seattle area feel the Shake Rattle and Roll?

4.5? PFFFFFT! Wake me up when it hits 6 or above. I shake, rattle and roll worse from my disability than a 4.5. ;)

170 Jonathan Constantine  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:25:27pm

re: #101 Kenneth

Excuse yourself for your rude comments. There are many who claim the mantle of science to defame traditional Catholocism (which isn't anti-Science). After all Hitler did say:


The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death. A slow death has something comforting about it. The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble. All that is left is to prove that in nature there is no frontier between the organic and the inorganic. When understanding of the universe has become widespread, when the majority of men know that the stars are not sources of light but worlds, perhaps inhabited worlds like ours, then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.
171 stuiec  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:25:52pm

re: #161 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

A Cashew?

Oh, now I don't care who you are, that's funny right there.

172 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:25:54pm

re: #138 jcm

The Presidential Pledge is a bunch of Hollyweird moonbats with no sense, and less understanding of 3rd grade civics.

Wait... so I'm not supposed to be the President's "servant"?
But Demi Moore said...

173 Kenneth  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:25:54pm

re: #115 MandyManners

Wasn't there an attempt to make anti-Semitism a "scientific theory"?

A bigot may tack the word "science" onto anything he damn well pleases, but that does not make it science. Intelligent Design is touted as "science" by it's promoters, but it surely is not. Consider the hit list of religious & political ideologies, and outright quackery, falsely packaged as "science":

1. scientific socialism
2. intelligent design
3. Global Warming
4. Chariots of the Gods
5. Velikovsky's "Worlds in Collision"
6. Christian Science
7. Naturopathy
8. Astrology

174 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:25:55pm

re: #127 jcm

On the surface, the "betterment of" or the for "the good of society" might seem attractive. With the application of a little "animal husbandry" in our breeding when can make big improvements in the human stock.

Once you get past the "ohh this might be good" surface it becomes a nightmare very quickly. We (collectively) are very good at not looking past the surface, until a "good idea" becomes the nightmare and correcting the "good idea" is far worse the the original problem.

The end nightmare is usually that if you buy into the original base concept, you get lumped in with the whole moonbat group at the end.

Charles did a thread on ID one night, and somebody posted some links on how the whole thing really got started.

Since I only got the initial e-mails, I was sucked into (at least going along with) a larger fraud for quite a while.

175 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:25:58pm

re: #162 DaddyG

I don't care who you are - that there's funny stuff!

It's one of my favorites. I've always used it in connection to moonbats but, it can be used for others.

176 davesax  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:26:07pm

sarcasm on> IF CREATIONISM isn't true, could someone please explain to me how a Jewish director, Steven Spielberg, hired all those dinosaurs for Jurrassic Park? /sarcasm>

177 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:26:08pm

re: #135 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

"The food was terrible."
"And such small portions, too."
/Woody Allen

Woody Allen's dilemma: free bacon.

178 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:26:20pm

re: #167 stuiec

Hot Turkish chicks are really, REALLY hot. My uncle traveled extensively in the Middle East, and one well-known expression used by Arab men to compliment a woman's sexual prowess is, "She f**ks like a Turk."

Dude, considering Turkish fetishes and history, I think that means anal.

(sorry)

179 BigMoo  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:26:24pm

re: #165 Racer X

No worries-tough day, had some friends 'RIF'd today. Came to LGF to decompress.

180 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:26:35pm

re: #163 Nevergiveup

The Jerusalem Post's target audience is the English speaking population in Israel. That is why most Hebrew speaking Israelis don't read it on a regular basis. Most American Jews who read it picked up the habit when they were in Israel.

So, he still mis-cast his target?

181 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:26:38pm

re: #166 MandyManners

He really is stupid, isn't he?

That seems to be a part of the job description when one looks at what it takes to be a part of the ID crowd.

182 vagabond trader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:26:44pm

What a horses arse. Israeli's are almost as secular as Americans, this is a big fat NO SALE.

183 SFGoth  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:26:46pm

re: #134 Ben Hur

Klingohoffer

Sounds like a JEW

Why? He's got a Brooklyn accent?

184 yochanan  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:27:03pm

DINGBATS are just the right wing version of MOONBATS

185 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:27:18pm

re: #180 MandyManners

So, he still mis-cast his target?


He needed a Joo Paper.

186 J.S.  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:27:28pm

re: #133 FurryOldGuyJeans

there's also Abolitionist's link to the original -- and it was some blogger (?) attempting to write satire...(which, of course, was misinterpreted and read as "serious" by some)...

187 brookly red  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:27:58pm

re: #183 SFGoth

Why? He's got a Brooklyn accent?

say what?

188 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:28:15pm

re: #160 Ben Hur

Yes yes.

Always hanging around Uranus.

And their constant search for Kosher gagh.

189 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:28:16pm

re: #173 Kenneth

A bigot may tack the word "science" onto anything he damn well pleases, but that does not make it science. Intelligent Design is touted as "science" by it's promoters, but it surely is not. Consider the hit list of religious & political ideologies, and outright quackery, falsely packaged as "science":

1. scientific socialism
2. intelligent design
3. Global Warming
4. Chariots of the Gods
5. Velikovsky's "Worlds in Collision"
6. Christian Science
7. Naturopathy
8. Astrology

That's a hodge-podge of insanity.

Someone really tried to make a science out of a movie?

190 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:28:27pm

re: #187 brookly red

say what?


That's right.

He called you out, Joo.

191 Kenneth  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:28:47pm

re: #131 MandyManners

ROFLMAO! That goes straight to my favourites list!

192 capitalist piglet  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:29:11pm

OT: Steele only needs six more votes to clinch, I think - he just took the lead, thank G_d.

193 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:29:13pm

re: #188 Occasional Reader


freak.

194 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:29:25pm

re: #193 Ben Hur

freak.


in a good way.

195 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:29:26pm

re: #167 stuiec

Hot Turkish chicks are really, REALLY hot. My uncle traveled extensively in the Middle East, and one well-known expression used by Arab men to compliment a woman's sexual prowess is, "She f**ks like a Turk."

The goats are getting jealous.

196 brookly red  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:29:27pm

re: #189 MandyManners

That's a hodge-podge of insanity.

Someone really tried to make a science out of a movie?

scientology?

197 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:29:28pm

re: #181 FurryOldGuyJeans

That seems to be a part of the job description when one looks at what it takes to be a part of the ID crowd.

Or, they let their ideology erase their education.

198 stuiec  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:29:41pm

re: #178 Ben Hur

Dude, considering Turkish fetishes and history, I think that means anal.

(sorry)

I don't think there's a particular distinction between Turks and Arabs in that regard. But you could be right.

A hot Turkish chick with an anal fetish? I could get behind that....

/sorry

199 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:29:43pm

re: #159 Cato the Elder Brilliant! Thank you for sharing that.

200 BigMoo  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:29:44pm

re: #192 capitalist piglet

I hope he gets it.

201 Kragar  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:29:53pm

re: #169 FurryOldGuyJeans

4.5? PFFFFFT! Wake me up when it hits 6 or above. I shake, rattle and roll worse from my disability than a 4.5. ;)

Born and raised in southern CA. I love when they do post-quake interviews. They'll show a tourist in hysterics, then switch to a native whose generally in "eh, it was about average, now the one in --, that was a bad one" mode.

If it ain't 5+, it aint worth getting out of bed.

202 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:30:00pm

re: #185 Ben Hur

He needed a Joo Paper.

With Juice editors?

203 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:30:07pm

re: #180 MandyManners

So, he still mis-cast his target?

I don't know who his audience is? If he doesn't know Hebrew, the Post is the next best way to go, and anything really good or important ( which this isn't) will then get into the Hebrew Press.

204 Spiny Norman  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:30:21pm

re: #178 Ben Hur

Jenna Haze is Turkish? Wha...?

/

205 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:30:26pm

Mien Kampf: Science vs religion.....

Undoubtedly no small amount of blame for the present unsatisfactory
religious situation must be attributed to those who have encumbered the
ideal of religion with purely material accessories and have thus given
rise to an utterly futile conflict between religion and science. In this
conflict victory will nearly always be on the side of science, even
though after a bitter struggle, while religion will suffer heavily in
the eyes of those who cannot penetrate beneath the mere superficial
aspects of science.

But the greatest damage of all has come from the practice of debasing
religion as a means that can be exploited to serve political interests,
or rather commercial interests. The impudent and loud-mouthed liars who
do this make their profession of faith before the whole world in
stentorian tones so that all poor mortals may hear--not that they are
ready to die for it if necessary but rather that they may live all the
better. They are ready to sell their faith for any political QUID PRO
QUO. For ten parliamentary mandates they would ally themselves with the
Marxists, who are the mortal foes of all religion. And for a seat in the
Cabinet they would go the length of wedlock with the devil, if the
latter had not still retained some traces of decency.

206 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:30:32pm

re: #147 Ben Hur

It pisses me off more that I know some HOT Turkish chicks.

Ana toly'a that you should quit stalking her.

207 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:30:48pm

re: #186 J.S.

there's also Abolitionist's link to the original -- and it was some blogger (?) attempting to write satire...(which, of course, was misinterpreted and read as "serious" by some)...

This is really what I was looking for, something that showed this was misunderstood satire. Again, my thanks. :)

208 mean Gene  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:31:24pm

But Kenneth, when I was 13 I really liked reading 5. Velikovsky's "Worlds in Collision"
Then came all of the debates.
Oh, if only we'd had an Interwebby back then.
But we still had slide rules in those days.

209 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:31:36pm

re: #198 stuiec

I don't think there's a particular distinction between Turks and Arabs in that regard. But you could be right.

A hot Turkish chick with an anal fetish? I could get behind that....

/sorry

No, my boy.

Not the chicks.

There is a reason why the Ottomans had an army of boys marching behind them, "backwards."

210 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:31:45pm

re: #192 capitalist piglet

OT: Steele only needs six more votes to clinch, I think - he just took the lead, thank G_d.

The guy pushing the "Barack the Magic Negro" song dropped out this morning (maybe yesterday late). I was delighted at that news.

211 vagabond trader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:32:14pm

re: #198 stuiec

Way too much info imho.

212 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:32:24pm

re: #173 Kenneth

A bigot may tack the word "science" onto anything he damn well pleases, but that does not make it science. Intelligent Design is touted as "science" by it's promoters, but it surely is not. Consider the hit list of religious & political ideologies, and outright quackery, falsely packaged as "science":

1. scientific socialism
2. intelligent design
3. Global Warming
4. Chariots of the Gods
5. Velikovsky's "Worlds in Collision"
6. Christian Science
7. Naturopathy
8. Astrology

See "Scientology." L. Ron slapped an "ology" to the end of "science." That's like, double science!

213 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:32:26pm

re: #173 Kenneth

A bigot may tack the word "science" onto anything he damn well pleases, but that does not make it science. Intelligent Design is touted as "science" by it's promoters, but it surely is not. Consider the hit list of religious & political ideologies, and outright quackery, falsely packaged as "science":

1. scientific socialism
2. intelligent design
3. Global Warming
4. Chariots of the Gods
5. Velikovsky's "Worlds in Collision"
6. Christian Science
7. Naturopathy
8. Astrology

You left out my very favorite: ear candling.

Science!

214 stuiec  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:32:27pm

re: #209 Ben Hur

No, my boy.

Not the chicks.

There is a reason why the Ottomans had an army of boys marching behind them, "backwards."

Making war under Spartan conditions.

215 mean Gene  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:32:43pm

Wow!
Now Michael Steele is the "Front runner!"

216 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:32:48pm

re: #170 Jonathan Constantine

Excuse yourself for your rude comments. There are many who claim the mantle of science to defame traditional Catholocism (which isn't anti-Science). After all Hitler did say:

No, he didn't. These quotes are distorted, mistranslated, and relentlessly misrepresented by creationists:

[Link: ffrf.org...]

217 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:33:02pm

Let's not make this the anal thread, please.

At least until FloridaAnole arrives.

HAHAHAH!

kidding.

218 tunnelrat  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:33:10pm

I'm still not certain why ones personal belief about the origins of life is causing such fury amongst us lizards. Can't we believe what we choose on this issue
and respect the other persons beliefs as well? Why is that so hard?

219 avanti  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:33:17pm

Obama invites both the GOP and the Dems to the White House for the Super bowl, and fans of both teams. Hope they are not drinking, it could get interesting. :)

220 Kenneth  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:33:25pm

re: #170 Jonathan Constantine

Like I said, Hitler, or any other bigot, may use the word science, but that does not make his ideas scientific.

FYI: I happen to be both a scientist & a Christian. And I have never said anything disparaging of Catholicism.

221 FrogMarch  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:33:34pm

Darwin is not the enemy.

222 capitalist piglet  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:33:40pm

OT, but if anyone cares: Third in line, Anuzi, dropped out. It's down to Steele and Dawson. If Dawson wins, we will never win anything again. Steele is in the lead, needs six votes to clinch...but Anuzi didn't endorse anyone when he dropped out, and he's got about 20 votes that could go either way, I suppose.

Nailbiter.

223 gmsc  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:33:49pm

re: #215 mean Gene

Wow!
Now Michael Steele is the "Front runner!"

Good! The last thing we need right now is "White's Only" Dawson.

224 Jonathan Constantine  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:33:53pm

re: #164 Killgore Trout

Is Mein Kampf the only source of Hitler's thoughts and his embrace of notions of might makes right? They might or might not be carved in stone, but Hitler sure used the ungodliness of totalitarian state power to commit evil.

Consider this quote as an endorsement of social natural selection:

Originally war was nothing but a struggle for pasture grounds. To-day war is nothing but a struggle for the riches of nature. By virtue of an inherent law, these riches belong to him who conquers them. The great migrations set out from the East. With us begins the ebb, from West to East. That's in accordance with the laws of nature. By means of the struggle, the elites are continually renewed. The law of natural selection justifies this incessant struggle, by allowing the survival of the fittest. Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of human failure.

225 jcm  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:33:54pm

re: #156 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

See Iowahawk's devastatingly funny take on "The Pledge."

Hemlich needed here I'm choking! It's lunch time.
ROFL!

226 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:34:17pm

re: #219 avanti

Obama invites both the GOP and the Dems to the White House for the Super bowl, and fans of both teams. Hope they are not drinking, it could get interesting. :)

I guess my invite got lost in the mail?

227 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:34:19pm

re: #204 Spiny Norman

Jenna Haze is Turkish? Wha...?

/

SMACK!

228 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:34:19pm

re: #202 MandyManners

With Juice editors?

Give new meaning to Pulp fiction!

229 Kragar  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:34:21pm

re: #217 Ben Hur

Let's not make this the anal thread, please.

At least until FloridaAnole arrives.

HAHAHAH!

kidding.

Is anal thread how you attach an anal bum cover?

230 Kenneth  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:34:25pm

re: #219 avanti

Will he be serving pretzels or cool-aid?

231 vagabond trader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:34:42pm

re: #219 avanti

So special, The Obama. Brings a tear to my old jaundiced eye.

sniff

232 yochanan  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:34:58pm

re: #170 Jonathan Constantine

THE MARXISTS AND NAZI'S had the same view point on this. Just that the commies were more active in there open hate of religion. the Nazi scum had more important first targets.

233 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:35:05pm

re: #221 FrogMarch

Darwin is not the enemy.

That's not what Mrs. Darwin says?

234 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:35:24pm

re: #215 mean Gene

Wow!
Now Michael Steele is the "Front runner!"

President Obama, and Michael Steele as RNC chair... white supremacist heads explode all over the country. Heh.

235 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:35:43pm

Adolf on science education.....

Formal instruction in the sciences must be considered last in importance.
Accordingly the State which is grounded on the racial idea must start
with the principle that a person whose formal education in the sciences
is relatively small but who is physically sound and robust, of a
steadfast and honest character, ready and able to make decisions and
endowed with strength of will, is a more useful member of the national
community than a weakling who is scholarly and refined.
236 vagabond trader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:35:43pm

re: #230 Kenneth

Both. Dems get kool aid, Rs get pretzels.

237 mean Gene  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:36:06pm

I read that 0bama wants to have a 3000 bottle wine cellar filled with wines worth at minimum $250 each before the end of his 1st term!
I 'm wondering if he's expecting his guests to bring one for him every time he does a drinking party.

238 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:36:15pm

re: #213 Cato the Elder

You left out my very favorite: ear candling.

Science!

Ohh, how about "bee-sting therapy?"

239 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:36:16pm
240 DeafDog  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:36:17pm

re: #96 MandyManners

I'm okay with CBBHO's uniform but, WAB's attire is over the top--in fact, it smacks of racism to me.

"Over the top" is what makes good satire

241 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:36:35pm

re: #224 Jonathan Constantine

Is Mein Kampf the only source of Hitler's thoughts and his embrace of notions of might makes right? They might or might not be carved in stone, but Hitler sure used the ungodliness of totalitarian state power to commit evil.

Consider this quote as an endorsement of social natural selection:

I repeat, there is considerable doubt about the veracity of these quotes.

[Link: ffrf.org...]

242 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:37:02pm

re: #218 tunnelrat

I'm still not certain why ones personal belief about the origins of life is causing such fury amongst us lizards. Can't we believe what we choose on this issue
and respect the other persons beliefs as well? Why is that so hard?

Where is those beliefs being attacked? THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE ORIGINS OF LIFE.

243 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:37:14pm

re: #238 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Ohh, how about "bee-sting therapy?"

Is that how Angelina Jolie got her lips?

244 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:37:17pm

re: #201 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Born and raised in southern CA. I love when they do post-quake interviews. They'll show a tourist in hysterics, then switch to a native whose generally in "eh, it was about average, now the one in --, that was a bad one" mode.

If it ain't 5+, it aint worth getting out of bed.

When I was with the Navy stationed in San Diego there was a late night earthquate. My then wife woke up screaming and beating on me about the quake. All I did was, "Is anyone hurt? Is anything damaged that could hurt someone? No? Then go BACK TO SLEEP!"

I grew up in the Seattle area with all their quakes, and spent time in Alaska and California with their quakes. The February 28, 2001 Nisqually quake was the only one that really was more than just a minor annoyance, barely.

245 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:37:23pm

re: #228 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Give new meaning to Pulp fiction!

Am I gonna need to get a pair of pliers and a blowtorch?

246 avanti  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:37:30pm

re: #231 vagabond trader

So special, The Obama. Brings a tear to my old jaundiced eye.

sniff

He does know how to play the game. The press reports it, and some will indeed go, "How Sweet" No tears from me, but at least a "You sly dog" thought.

247 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:37:32pm

re: #224 Jonathan Constantine

See #216

248 jcm  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:37:48pm

re: #235 Killgore Trout

Adolf on science education.....

Easily manipulated brawn over brains, eh Adolf? Can't have folks thinking for themselves, that just wouldn't do.

249 mean Gene  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:38:07pm

re: #238 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Ohh, how about "bee-sting therapy?"

I just looked at the ''demo'' page.
What a joke!

250 Kragar  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:38:09pm

re: #240 DeafDog

"Over the top" is what makes good satire

The Stallone movie about arm wrestling is what makes good satire?

251 avanti  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:38:13pm

re: #237 mean Gene

I read that 0bama wants to have a 3000 bottle wine cellar filled with wines worth at minimum $250 each before the end of his 1st term!
I 'm wondering if he's expecting his guests to bring one for him every time he does a drinking party.

Link please...

252 yochanan  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:38:17pm

re: #192 capitalist piglet

OT: Steele only needs six more votes to clinch, I think - he just took the lead, thank G_d.

I like Mr Steel and one of the side benefits is he might drive out the remaining racists in the GOP.

253 LeePro  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:38:34pm

re: #162 DaddyG

I don't care who you are - that there's funny stuff!

Point #1:
Mandy ROCKS!

Point #2 (OT):
I see by your profile that you are a "conservative bureaucrat from Georgia." I have a personal beef with certain individuals (mostly in Atlanta, I think) concerning my father's original art and an unprincipled person who claims (publicly, via one govt-based website) ownership of origin of this artwork. City/state officials have not cooperated.

My nic is blue (for email). Please contact me. You may or may not be able to help me, but I have to try!

254 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:38:58pm

PHew!

No more silliness from me.

255 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:39:07pm

re: #242 MandyManners

Where is ARE those beliefs being attacked? THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE ORIGINS OF LIFE.

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH.

Gotta' go, Lizards. Have a great afternoon!

256 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:39:31pm

You mean the Jerusalem Post has shitheads on staff?
Oh my fricken God!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

257 FrogMarch  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:39:39pm

re: #235 Killgore Trout

Hi Killgore. got a Link?

258 jcm  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:39:44pm

re: #238 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Ohh, how about "bee-sting therapy?"

Cured me of sticking my nose in flowers when is was a kid.
;-P

259 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:39:48pm

re: #235 Killgore Trout

Adolf on science education.....

Quite incredible, considering how German science had given him the military means to accomplish his goals to the extent he did. Evil and dumb is no way to go through life, Adolf (to paraphrase Dean Wormer).

260 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:40:17pm

re: #256 Spare O'Lake

Your post went out of frame, off my screen and onto the wall.

Weird.

261 Kragar  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:40:22pm

re: #244 FurryOldGuyJeans

When I was with the Navy stationed in San Diego there was a late night earthquate. My then wife woke up screaming and beating on me about the quake. All I did was, "Is anyone hurt? Is anything damaged that could hurt someone? No? Then go BACK TO SLEEP!"

I grew up in the Seattle area with all their quakes, and spent time in Alaska and California with their quakes. The February 28, 2001 Nisqually quake was the only one that really was more than just a minor annoyance, barely.

Had a quake when I was in MCRD San Diego, hit just as we were getting up. 40+ recruits running in terror. 6 of us going about our business thinking "WTF guys, its over."

262 itellu3times  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:40:25pm

Y'know, Charles, maybe practice does make perfect, because I think this is perhaps the best thread yet on the ID issue!

Or maybe it's just that the ID'rs get crazier with practice, so that any objective review seems more sensible in contrast.

263 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:40:34pm

re: #245 lawhawk

Am I gonna need to get a pair of pliers and a blowtorch?

If you're searching for my post, it's the one that says "Bad-Ass Motherf***ker" on it.

264 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:41:03pm

re: #224 Jonathan Constantine

Is Mein Kampf the only source of Hitler's thoughts and his embrace of notions of might makes right? They might or might not be carved in stone, but Hitler sure used the ungodliness of totalitarian state power to commit evil.

Consider this quote as an endorsement of social natural selection:

That Hitler quote shows to perfection that he is juggling words without any understanding of the concepts behind them.
It makes for impressive reading if one's never been taught science (he wasn't) - but it is proof of nothing but bombastic, half-digested twaddle.
Hitler did not have an overarching 'theory' - he had two things: greed for power, and Jew Hate which knew no boundary.

265 gmsc  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:41:18pm

re: #258 jcm

Cured me of sticking my nose in flowers when is was a kid.
;-P

jcm's mother: "How did you get that bump on your nose?"

jcm: "I was smelling a brose!"

jcm's mother: "There's no 'b' in rose."

jcm: "Well, there was in this one!"

266 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:41:22pm

re: #260 Ben Hur

Your post went out of frame, off my screen and onto the wall.

Weird.

re-MEM-BAHHHH
what the DOORMOUSE SAID
FEED YOUR HEAAAAAD
FEED YOUR HEAAAAAD

267 Kragar  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:41:41pm

re: #265 gmsc

jcm's mother: "How did you get that bump on your nose?"

jcm: "I was smelling a brose!"

jcm's mother: "There's no 'b' in rose."

jcm: "Well, there was in this one!"

LOL

268 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:41:42pm

re: #218 tunnelrat

I'm still not certain why ones personal belief about the origins of life is causing such fury amongst us lizards. Can't we believe what we choose on this issue
and respect the other persons beliefs as well? Why is that so hard?

When one's belief is to willfully embrace religious dogma as the only source of knowledge and science, and demand everyone believe the same, you are going to get a fight. And rightly so since the Constitution does prohibit that.

269 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:42:14pm

re: #266 Occasional Reader

re-MEM-BAHHHH
what the DOORMOUSE SAID
FEED YOUR HEAAAAAD
FEED YOUR HEAAAAAD

G-d forbid you and I ever party, my friend.

270 DeafDog  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:42:18pm

re: #218 tunnelrat

I'm still not certain why ones personal belief about the origins of life is causing such fury amongst us lizards. Can't we believe what we choose on this issue
and respect the other persons beliefs as well? Why is that so hard?

It's not an issue high on my radar screen, either, but it's not our blog. We just congregate for the opinions, amusement and education.

Be sure that no one here is attacking your personal 'beliefs.' What is being attacked, however, is the desire by some to push a 'belief' system into the realm of science. That's a no-no.

271 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:42:55pm

re: #243 Occasional Reader

Is that how Angelina Jolie got her lips?

I saw a stand up comic who was decrying how bad the Star Wars prequels were, saying, "I don't care about the origins! I mean, I think Angelina Jolie is hot, but I don't want to see photos of Jon Voight's junk!"

272 Kenneth  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:42:56pm

I got hope on my lips,
And a blackberry on my hips!

273 Racer X  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:43:03pm

I'm listening to Hannity. I really wish he wasn't a smarmy douchebag. He makes good points.

Hi Sean!

Give Charles a hat tip some time.

274 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:43:04pm

re: #260 Ben Hur

Your post went out of frame, off my screen and onto the wall.

Weird.

That is my Darwinian Ubersarc.

275 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:43:06pm

re: #264 yma o hyd

That Hitler quote shows to perfection that he is juggling words without any understanding of the concepts behind them.
It makes for impressive reading if one's never been taught science (he wasn't) - but it is proof of nothing but bombastic, half-digested twaddle.
Hitler did not have an overarching 'theory' - he had two things: greed for power, and Jew Hate which knew no boundary.

The Hitler quotes posted by Jonathan Constantine are probably fakes.

276 Haverwilde  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:43:14pm

re: #224 Jonathan Constantine

Okay, J.C., I have reviewed all your comments on the last couple of threads. I may be a little slow. So could you summarize what your position is, and what you are saying. Not quotes, just a short statement on your position. Thanks.

277 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:43:57pm

Mien Kampf on science and religion....

Here again the Catholic Church has a lesson to teach us. Though
sometimes, and often quite unnecessarily, its dogmatic system is in
conflict with the exact sciences and with scientific discoveries, it is
not disposed to sacrifice a syllable of its teachings. It has rightly
recognized that its powers of resistance would be weakened by
introducing greater or less doctrinal adaptations to meet the temporary
conclusions of science
, which in reality are always vacillating. And
thus it holds fast to its fixed and established dogmas which alone can
give to the whole system the character of a faith.
278 DeafDog  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:44:03pm

re: #237 mean Gene

I read that 0bama wants to have a 3000 bottle wine cellar filled with wines worth at minimum $250 each before the end of his 1st term!
I 'm wondering if he's expecting his guests to bring one for him every time he does a drinking party.

This will replace the SPR?

279 yochanan  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:44:07pm

PLANNED PARENTHOOD came out of the racist eugenics movement some say that the reason they have so many of there abortion mills in minority communities.

280 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:44:20pm

re: #268 FurryOldGuyJeans

When one's belief is to willfully embrace religious dogma as the only source of knowledge and science, and demand everyone believe the same, you are going to get a fight. And rightly so since the Constitution does prohibit that.

Religious dogma drives me nuts.
Getting someone to admit what they're saying is dogma drives me even more nuttser.
/I can probably find that word on the internets ....

281 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:44:58pm

re: #257 FrogMarch

Mien Kampf

282 MacGregor  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:45:32pm

Damn, I'm tired of wackos prostituting science to stir hatred. Reminds me of eugenics.

283 mean Gene  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:45:33pm

With 15 minutes to go the DOW is under 8000.

284 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:45:47pm
285 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:46:06pm

re: #269 Ben Hur

G-d forbid you and I ever party, my friend.

Just today, I've consumed two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half-full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multicolored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers.... A quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. Oh, and some grapefruit.

286 jcm  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:46:18pm

re: #265 gmsc

jcm's mother: "How did you get that bump on your nose?"

jcm: "I was smelling a brose!"

jcm's mother: "There's no 'b' in rose."

jcm: "Well, there was in this one!"

ROFLMAO!

287 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:46:39pm

re: #263 Occasional Reader

If you're searching for my post, it's the one that says "Bad-Ass Motherf***ker" on it.

Funny, but here I thought all I'd have to do is post Adriana Lima photos and watch you make a bee-line.

288 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:46:41pm

re: #275 Charles

Thanks!

I'll refrain from commenting on them then - life's too short.

289 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:46:56pm

re: #280 jwb7605

Religious dogma drives me nuts.
Getting someone to admit what they're saying is dogma drives me even more nuttser.
/I can probably find that word on the internets ....

I don't personally have a problem with someone's religious dogma, as long as it remains THEIR dogma. When they demand it becomes MY dogma is when I have a problem, especially when it is trumpeted as science.

290 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:46:58pm

I'm going to go ahead and blame Sun Tzu for World War 2

291 tfc3rid  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:47:14pm

OT again...

Obama is considering appointing GOP Sen. Gregg of New Hampshire to be Commerce Secretary.

If he accepts and is confirmed, NH Governor, a Dem will select the new Senator, who would likely be a Dem. Therefore, the Dems will have 60 votes in Senate...

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

292 Racer X  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:47:25pm

re: #285 Occasional Reader

Just today, I've consumed two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half-full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multicolored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers.... A quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. Oh, and some grapefruit.

What, no 'shrooms?

293 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:47:27pm

re: #285 Occasional Reader

Just today, I've consumed two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half-full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multicolored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers.... A quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. Oh, and some grapefruit.

Watching your cholesterol IS important ...

294 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:47:33pm

re: #285 Occasional Reader

Just today, I've consumed two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half-full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multicolored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers.... A quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. Oh, and some grapefruit.

You forgot the blue pill. Just to see how far down the rabbit hole it goes.

295 DeafDog  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:47:34pm

re: #250 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Stallone movie about arm wrestling is what makes good satire?

Yes.....and "Rambo" makes good anomatopeia

296 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:47:35pm
297 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:47:43pm

re: #285 Occasional Reader

Just today, I've consumed two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half-full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multicolored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers.... A quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. Oh, and some grapefruit.

Budweiser?

298 Kragar  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:48:19pm

re: #290 spacejesus

I'm going to go ahead and blame Sun Tzu for World War 2

I still blame the Joos for Pearl Harbor.

299 Jonathan Constantine  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:48:31pm

re:

300 mean Gene  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:48:34pm

re: #290 spacejesus

I'm going to go ahead and blame Sun Tzu for World War 2

Yup, the link is equally as strong....or weak.
Even less than a law of unintended consequence, more like one person said "X" and whenever anything remotely like "X" happened he got the credit or the blame.

301 Sheepdogess  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:48:40pm

re: #291 tfc3rid

Not.
Surprised.
At.
All.

302 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:48:51pm

re: #216 Charles

No, he didn't. These quotes are distorted, mistranslated, and relentlessly misrepresented by creationists:

[Link: ffrf.org...]

And let's never forget that Trevor-Roper's approval of the spurious French "translation" of Hitler's "Table Talks" came from the same famous historian who was famously taken in by and "authenticated" the famously forged "Hitler Diaries". Ironically enough, one of Trevor-Roper's more entertaining books is The Hermit of Peking, in which he exposed - a famous forger!

303 calcajun  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:49:03pm

Argh. The National Socialists took many philosophies--check--theirs was a "cafeteria" philosophy; a patchwork of many different themes cobbled together to form one odious theme. Taking a centuries-ingrained racism, some Nietzsche, and Darwin's natural selection theories, they came up with their eugenics policies which resulted in the murders of millions of untermenschen--Jews, Slavs, gypsies, homosexuals as well as people born with birth defects such as Down syndrome, congenital physical defects and mental illnesses.

Darwin's theories--no matter how much I may disagree with them--did not lead to this travesty. They were perverted in order to rationalize what otherwise could not be achieved by sheer nihilism.

304 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:49:04pm
305 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:49:11pm

re: #298 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I still blame the Joos for Pearl Harbor.

Was that the Judean People's Front or the People's Front of Judea?

306 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:49:28pm

re: #291 tfc3rid

OT again...

Obama is considering appointing GOP Sen. Gregg of New Hampshire to be Commerce Secretary.

If he accepts and is confirmed, NH Governor, a Dem will select the new Senator, who would likely be a Dem. Therefore, the Dems will have 60 votes in Senate...

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Then Senator Gregg should make it clear that his acceptance would be conditional on a Republican being appointed in his place.

307 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:49:54pm

re: #297 Ben Hur

Budweiser?

It goes suprisingly well with grapefruit.

308 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:50:13pm

re: #285 Occasional Reader

Just today, I've consumed two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half-full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multicolored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers.... A quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. Oh, and some grapefruit.

Hunter, is that you?

309 Racer X  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:50:16pm

re: #285 Occasional Reader

Just today, I've consumed two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half-full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multicolored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers.... A quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. Oh, and some grapefruit.

Lick the Toad, man. Just lick the Toad.

310 monkeytime  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:50:18pm

re: #285 Occasional Reader

Just today, I've consumed two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half-full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multicolored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers.... A quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. Oh, and some grapefruit.

Good grief. Everyone knows you can't mix "downers" with "screamers".
You become a democrat!

311 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:50:20pm

re: #285 Occasional Reader

Just today, I've consumed two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half-full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multicolored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers.... A quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. Oh, and some grapefruit.

STEP OUT OF THE CAR, PLACE BOTH HANDS ON THE HOOD, AND SPREAD YOUR LEGS.
Now pass me the grapefruit.

312 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:50:26pm

re: #307 Occasional Reader

It goes suprisingly well with grapefruit.


And is probably the only thing on that list I haven't touched.

313 FrogMarch  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:50:27pm

re: #281 Killgore Trout

Mien Kampf

thanks.

314 tfc3rid  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:50:29pm

re: #306 Dark_Falcon

Then Senator Gregg should make it clear that his acceptance would be conditional on a Republican being appointed in his place.

Not a chance that would happen...

315 Kragar  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:50:35pm

re: #305 lawhawk

Was that the Judean People's Front or the People's Front of Judea?

Both. The evidence is all there. How else can you explain their battlecry of "Torah! Torah! Torah!"

316 calcajun  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:50:39pm

re: #258 jcm

Kinda like the lesson I learned as a teen; when you disturb a hornets' nest while trimming the lawn, do not try to fight them off using a weed-eater. Trust me, it doesn't work.

317 yochanan  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:50:44pm

re: #297 Ben Hur

after all that he got to be able to P. thus the bud

318 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:51:06pm

re: #237 mean Gene

I read that 0bama wants to have a 3000 bottle wine cellar filled with wines worth at minimum $250 each before the end of his 1st term!
I 'm wondering if he's expecting his guests to bring one for him every time he does a drinking party.

If he takes up drinking and smoking as a substitute for pushing the socialist agenda, good for him! Maybe we should all pitch in and donate for the cause.

319 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:51:25pm

re: #299 Jonathan Constantine

Minimalist. I like it.

320 jcm  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:51:29pm

re: #316 calcajun

Kinda like the lesson I learned as a teen; when you disturb a hornets' nest while trimming the lawn, do not try to fight them off using a weed-eater. Trust me, it doesn't work.

R-OWWWWW-FL!

321 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:51:48pm

re: #315 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Both. The evidence is all there. How else can you explain their battlecry of "Torah! Torah! Torah!"


Tora Bora is a Zionist plot!

322 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:51:49pm

re: #315 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Both. The evidence is all there. How else can you explain their battlecry of "Torah! Torah! Torah!"

DING!
(I was almost in that movie!)

323 faraway  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:51:56pm

When will Discovery Institute attack? Soon?

324 calcajun  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:52:09pm

re: #308 MandyManners

Hunter, is that you?

Hunter is not here right now. He's busy shooting down the squadron of hairy four-eyed bats that descended from his eaves.

325 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:52:34pm

re: #289 FurryOldGuyJeans

I don't personally have a problem with someone's religious dogma, as long as it remains THEIR dogma. When they demand it becomes MY dogma is when I have a problem, especially when it is trumpeted as science.

Don't walk your dogma in my yard!

326 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:52:37pm

re: #304 Iron Fist

I suspect that Steele will get more opposition from the Black Panthers/Nation of Islam crowd than he will from the Ku Klux Klan and Aryan Brotherhood. Not that I expect the latter to be nice to him or anything, but because I expect the former to be thoroughly vile.

He's a Republican, and apparently a fairly conservative one as well. He will be nearly universally hated.

327 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:52:50pm

re: #302 Cato the Elder

Very interesting.

328 Randall Gross  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:52:57pm

re: #44 FurryOldGuyJeans

So this is one of the more egregious examples of a blossoming ODS?

I ask that because there are other sites promoting the article as something factual, akin to the 9/11 troofers.

It emanated from the nirth cert nexus

329 LeePro  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:52:59pm

re: #237 mean Gene

I read that 0bama wants to have a 3000 bottle wine cellar filled with wines worth at minimum $250 each before the end of his 1st term!
I 'm wondering if he's expecting his guests to bring one for him every time he does a drinking party.

Why doesn't he just "CHANGE" water to wine?

330 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:53:30pm

re: #300 mean Gene

Yup, the link is equally as strong....or weak.
Even less than a law of unintended consequence, more like one person said "X" and whenever anything remotely like "X" happened he got the credit or the blame.


unfortunately my comparison almost helps them a little bit by lending credence to the 'field' of Nazi eugenics.

331 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:53:33pm

re: #298 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I still blame the Joos for Pearl Harbor.

I blame the Joos for the sinking of the Titanic. Iceberg, Goldberg - same thing.
/

332 calcajun  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:53:39pm

re: #326 FurryOldGuyJeans

He's a Republican, and apparently a fairly conservative one as well. He will be nearly universally hated.

Well, Sarah Palin will be his friend.

333 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:53:52pm

re: #329 LeePro

Because he's too busy recreating the welfare state.
He might get to changing water to wine in the second term.

334 Jonathan Constantine  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:53:57pm

re: #276 Haverwilde

I'm sorry for the late response. I am reviewing the material Charles sent me. My point is that Williamson's terrible comments are utilized by people to attack a great institution which has done so much good for the World (ie: Helping Jews during the Holocaust). Benedict wasn't merely trying to save face when he visited the Memorial at Auschwitz, this is apart of the compassionate tradition, that is often misinterpreted.

I am not anti-Darwin or anti-Science, however those who claim its self-righteousness have no leg to stand on when people have used it for evil.

335 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:54:07pm

re: #308 MandyManners

Hunter, is that you?

In reality, about the only thing I have in common with the late HST is that when my wife and I went to Las Vegas last year, we stayed at the hotel "Circus Circus", which is where he stays in the novel.

Which was a mistake. What a lousy hotel.

336 gmsc  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:54:15pm

OT:

The Best Things In Life Are Dirty
Sung by Lee Marvin and Clint Eastwood (Yes, sung!)

337 Kenneth  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:54:29pm

re: #111 lawhawk

It sounds like Perry held the discussions with the Iranians last year, for Bush. Ledeen's piece on the topic made the very good point: US administrations, thru mid-level contacts, have been meeting with Iranian counterparts regularly over the past 30 years. This fact puts the lie to Obama's spin on his pledge to talk with the leaders of Iran "without precondition", he argued that it was unrealistic not to tlak to the Iranians. BUT THAT"S NOT THE POINT! The US has always been talking with them. The problem is that Obama pledged that the POTUS will talk with the Iranian leader without preconditions. That's the difference & therein lies the danger.

338 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:54:32pm

re: #314 tfc3rid

Not a chance that would happen...

Then he should refuse the appointment. His Senate seat is more important right now. And I think he should refuse anyway. Obama's probable economic failures are things we need to avoid involvement in. We shouldn't help him screw up.

339 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:54:47pm

re: #328 Thanos

Which has, at its core, a bunch of disgruntled Hillary Democrats.

340 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:54:49pm

re: #335 Occasional Reader

In reality, about the only thing I have in common with the late HST is that when my wife and I went to Las Vegas last year, we stayed at the hotel "Circus Circus", which is where he stays in the novel.

Which was a mistake. What a lousy hotel.

Far too much pink, for sure.

341 jcm  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:54:55pm
342 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:55:28pm

re: #332 calcajun

Well, Sarah Palin will be his friend.

Interesting '12 combo from what I read about both.

343 gmsc  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:55:32pm

re: #298 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I still blame the Joos for Pearl Harbor.

Well, according to 0bama, they only dropped one bomb on Pearl Harbor, so what's the big deal?
;

344 Kragar  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:55:42pm

re: #316 calcajun

Kinda like the lesson I learned as a teen; when you disturb a hornets' nest while trimming the lawn, do not try to fight them off using a weed-eater. Trust me, it doesn't work.

Okinawa, 1996. On a platoon patrol, supposed to have full noise discipline. Hear a tree crack and the Platoon Sgt yells "RUN!". 30 Marines in full battle gear take off in a dead run from the biggest swarm of hornets I've ever scene. That was a sight to see.

345 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:55:52pm

re: #302 Cato the Elder

Hitler's "Table Talks"

Oh no... not another "foodie" show.

346 Randall Gross  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:55:59pm

re: #107 jwb7605

Like the photo of Obama in full military dictator uniform and Michelle in aunt Jemimah getup would not clue you in?

Note the star in the logo... I have suspicions about where this really originated.

347 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:56:00pm

re: #334 Jonathan Constantine

I'm sorry for the late response. I am reviewing the material Charles sent me. My point is that Williamson's terrible comments are utilized by people to attack a great institution which has done so much good for the World (ie: Helping Jews during the Holocaust). Benedict wasn't merely trying to save face when he visited the Memorial at Auschwitz, this is apart of the compassionate tradition, that is often misinterpreted.

I am not anti-Darwin or anti-Science, however those who claim its self-righteousness have no leg to stand on when people have used it for evil.

The Discovery Institute/the Creationists helped the Jews during the Holocaust?

Methinks you've misread the whole thread.

348 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:56:10pm

re: #342 FurryOldGuyJeans

Interesting '12 combo from what I read about both.

Where? Link? That sounds fascinating!

349 Tigger2005  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:56:48pm

re: #149 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We are in dark times and then end of them is nowhere in sight

Which is why I intend to spend my remaining days drunk, stoned, and engaged in meaningless sex. When the nuke, chemical, biological, or human weapon finds me, I'll at least be able to say I had a good time!

350 calcajun  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:56:50pm

re: #344 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Okinawa, 1996. On a platoon patrol, supposed to have full noise discipline. Hear a tree crack and the Platoon Sgt yells "RUN!". 30 Marines in full battle gear take off in a dead run from the biggest swarm of hornets I've ever scene. That was a sight to see.

At least you did not return fire. ;)

351 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:56:54pm

re: #313 FrogMarch

It is very interesting to search Mien Kampf for "science". I'd never done it before. Although Adolf cites Western science as an example of Aryan superiority he really distrusts science education and eggheads. For him science is low on the list of national priories. He puts physical and spiritual health above scientific knowledge. He implies that too much book learnin' makes people weak pacifists.

352 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:56:56pm

re: #336 gmsc

Sung by Lee Marvin and Clint Eastwood (Yes, sung!)

Gonna paint your wagon
gonna paint it fine
Gonna use oil-based paint
because the wood is pine

353 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:56:58pm

Hello Lizards! It hasn't changed in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland.

SO, is blue still blue and is green still green?

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

354 avanti  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:57:00pm

re: #318 FurryOldGuyJeans

If he takes up drinking and smoking as a substitute for pushing the socialist agenda, good for him! Maybe we should all pitch in and donate for the cause.

Still waiting for the link, unless he's paying for the wine, that's outrageous. There are lots of good, inexpensive American wines.

355 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:57:06pm

re: #335 Occasional Reader

In reality, about the only thing I have in common with the late HST is that when my wife and I went to Las Vegas last year, we stayed at the hotel "Circus Circus", which is where he stays in the novel.

Which was a mistake. What a lousy hotel.

Really? Because when I think of luxury accommodations, the circus is the first thing that comes to mind.
/

356 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:57:12pm

re: #348 jwb7605

Where? Link? That sounds fascinating!

No real link since I just thought they would make a good and interesting combo if it were to actually happen.

357 Kenneth  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:57:16pm

re: #285 Occasional Reader

Just today, I've consumed two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half-full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multicolored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers.... A quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. Oh, and some grapefruit.

Oh no! Did you check with your pharmacist about possible negative interactions with grapefruit?

358 calcajun  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:58:03pm

re: #348 jwb7605

Where? Link? That sounds fascinating!

Oh quit dreaming. We gotta get through '10 first. Both maybe memories by then. Besides, the Party chairs rarely end up throwing their hats into the ring.

359 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:58:18pm

re: #345 Occasional Reader

Oh no... not another "foodie" show.

Yeah, and a vegetarian one at that!

(He loved dogs, too, you know.)

360 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:58:19pm

re: #351 Killgore Trout

It is very interesting to search Mien Kampf for "science".

It's Mein Kampf. "Mien" Kampf is the Vietnamese version.

361 robdouth  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:58:21pm

Please as an educational help to me, clarify this idea. I had heard that the Hitlers of the world and other mass-murderers relied on the ideas of eugenics. Is that what is a lie, or is it a lie to tie eugenics and darwinism. I'm not overly well-versed in either. Is there a simple picture that can be painted. I understand that claiming Hitler was influenced by Darwin is similar to saying Hitler relied on Christianity or the Passion story for his hatred of the Jews. Neither is based in fact. How does Eugenics factor in though?

362 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:58:48pm

re: #354 avanti

Still waiting for the link, unless he's paying for the wine, that's outrageous. There are lots of good, inexpensive American wines.

You need a fucking sarcasm injection. I didn't say the 3000 bottle cellar was true.

363 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:59:06pm

re: #345 Occasional Reader

Oh no... not another "foodie" show.

"Und tonight, ve have very special guest - Marshall Petain vill be showing us how to turn those extra vhite flags into lovely table coverings."

364 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:59:16pm
365 gmsc  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:59:22pm

re: #352 Occasional Reader

Gonna paint your wagon
gonna paint it fine
Gonna use oil-based paint
because the wood is pine

...Ponderoooosa Pine! Ooooo ooooooo!

366 jcm  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:59:23pm

Care and compassion in Blue Detroit.

Frozen in indifference: Life goes on around body found in vacant warehouse
367 calcajun  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:59:29pm

re: #349 Tigger2005

...engaged in meaningless sex.

All sex has some meaning...at least for one of the parties involved.

368 Jonathan Constantine  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:59:41pm

re: #347 yma o hyd

Absolutely not, Klinghoffer's article was addressing Benedict's excommunication lift and issues in Catholic-Jewish relations.

369 Kragar  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:59:43pm

re: #350 calcajun

At least you did not return fire. ;)

Thinking back on it, I wonder why no one thought to pop smoke. I guess we all too busy going up and down the gulleys in NTA going "OW! Fuck! OW! FUCK!"

370 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:59:49pm

re: #353 ggt

Hello Lizards! It hasn't changed in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland.

SO, is blue still blue and is green still green?

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

Everybody is fine, or at least we were until OR piped up.
After that, we just started babbling.
Cool colors, dude. Sparkly!

371 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:00:04pm

re: #365 gmsc

372 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:00:07pm

re: #360 Occasional Reader

brian and the spelling bee

373 Mr Secul  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:00:13pm

re: #36 MandyManners

Also, anti-Semitism predates Darwin by hundreds and hundreds of years.

Who here believes that Darwin invented it?

He didn't invent eugenics, that's animal husbandry applied to humans. With a dash of genetics thrown into the mix (a subject that Darwin knew nothing about, he hadn't even heard of it).

Plato advocated eugenics some time before Darwin was born. Quite some time.

374 avanti  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:00:30pm

re: #362 FurryOldGuyJeans

You need a fucking sarcasm injection. I didn't say the 3000 bottle cellar was true.

Sorry, I did not see a sarc tag, hard to tell from the printed word.

375 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:00:32pm

re: #355 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Really? Because when I think of luxury accommodations, the circus is the first thing that comes to mind.
/

It was more like a zoo than a circus. I kept wondering if I was going to get mugged in the elevators... by other guests.

376 Kenneth  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:00:37pm

re: #334 Jonathan Constantine

You did make a rather direct swipe at science, directly associating it with Hitler & the Nazis. I found that to be both ignorant & offensive. Unless you care to recant that post, you earned my "fuck you" and can bloody well keep it.

377 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:00:39pm

re: #361 robdouth

Please as an educational help to me, clarify this idea. I had heard that the Hitlers of the world and other mass-murderers relied on the ideas of eugenics. Is that what is a lie, or is it a lie to tie eugenics and darwinism. I'm not overly well-versed in either. Is there a simple picture that can be painted. I understand that claiming Hitler was influenced by Darwin is similar to saying Hitler relied on Christianity or the Passion story for his hatred of the Jews. Neither is based in fact. How does Eugenics factor in though?

There's a link in the post above that addresses this question.

[Link: www.expelledexposed.com...]

378 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:00:44pm

re: #364 Iron Fist

That's one of the things I like about him. If you don't just go along quitely and fade into the background, sooner or later somebody is going to hate you. It happens. There is no use crying that it's not fair, or "Can't we all just get along?"

Hate 'em back. That works for me.

I count my successes by the number of people that hate me, not the number of people that like me.

379 jcm  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:00:45pm

Rabbit Bait coming up on Micheal Medved.

I just ate lunch too, should I induce hurling now and save myself the effort later?

380 Kragar  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:01:15pm

re: #349 Tigger2005

Which is why I intend to spend my remaining days drunk, stoned, and engaged in meaningless sex. When the nuke, chemical, biological, or human weapon finds me, I'll at least be able to say I had a good time!

I engage in meaningless sex all the time. Sometimes I even have it with a partner.

381 J.S.  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:01:30pm

re: #347 yma o hyd

I believe that the poster is referring (in all liklihood) to the Catholic Church (i'm just guessing) when he refer's to that "great institution."

382 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:01:30pm

re: #366 jcm

Care and compassion in Blue Detroit.

Well at least they didn't steal his shoes.

383 mean Gene  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:01:48pm

re: #361 robdouth

Please as an educational help to me, clarify this idea. I had heard that the Hitlers of the world and other mass-murderers relied on the ideas of eugenics. Is that what is a lie, or is it a lie to tie eugenics and darwinism. I'm not overly well-versed in either. Is there a simple picture that can be painted. I understand that claiming Hitler was influenced by Darwin is similar to saying Hitler relied on Christianity or the Passion story for his hatred of the Jews. Neither is based in fact. How does Eugenics factor in though?

I think that these political thugs took from anywhere and everywhere they could, far and wide, to back up, in any way possible, what they were already going to do if they got power.

This is just the opposite of how a principled decision maker comes to his choice of action. He would amass all possible principles that might bear on his decision, weigh each one and conclude his action, whether he liked it or not, in the direction that all of his principles led him.

384 calcajun  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:01:51pm

re: #373 Mr Secul

Who here believes that Darwin invented it?

He didn't invent eugenics, that's animal husbandry applied to humans. With a dash of genetics thrown into the mix (a subject that Darwin knew nothing about, he hadn't even heard of it).

Plato advocated eugenics some time before Darwin was born. Quite some time.

I rather doubt that Prof. Darwin was unacquainted with the writings of Father Mendel...and vice versa.

385 Randall Gross  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:02:03pm

re: #361 robdouth

In the sense that Hitler was a tribal nationalist. Eugenics is just another way to keep the tribe "pure", something he holds in common with some modern Eurofascists and the Taliban tribals in the hinterlands of Pakistan.

386 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:02:05pm

re: #351 Killgore Trout

It is very interesting to search Mien Kampf for "science". I'd never done it before. Although Adolf cites Western science as an example of Aryan superiority he really distrusts science education and eggheads. For him science is low on the list of national priories. He puts physical and spiritual health above scientific knowledge. He implies that too much book learnin' makes people weak pacifists.

"He implies that too much book learnin' makes people weak pacifists."

Imagine that!

387 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:02:06pm

re: #360 Occasional Reader

It's Mein Kampf. "Mien" Kampf is the Vietnamese version.

Chow Mein Kampf is the Cantonese version.

388 FrogMarch  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:02:32pm

re: #351 Killgore Trout

It is very interesting to search Mien Kampf for "science". I'd never done it before. Although Adolf cites Western science as an example of Aryan superiority he really distrusts science education and eggheads. For him science is low on the list of national priories. He puts physical and spiritual health above scientific knowledge. He implies that too much book learnin' makes people weak pacifists.

Interesting. Yet so many use Hitler as a means to promote or demote whatever they want to promote or demote, truth be damned.

"Hitler was a Christian", "Hitler was an Atheist", "Hitler was a Darwinist", "Hitler was a Catholic..." on and on....

389 Kragar  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:02:45pm

re: #382 Alouette

Well at least they didn't steal his shoes.

Ever notice how bastions of the DNC are complete shitholes?

390 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:02:57pm
391 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:03:16pm

re: #368 Jonathan Constantine

Absolutely not, Klinghoffer's article was addressing Benedict's excommunication lift and issues in Catholic-Jewish relations.

We were discussing Klinghoffer's insinuation that Darwin's Theory of Evolution was responsible for Hitler's antisemitism.
Read the article Charles posted.
Read the posts at the top of this page.
This is another point in the continuing debate about ID and Creationism - it has nothing at all to do with the Catholic Church, or what else Klinghoffer wrote in his article.

392 Kenneth  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:03:27pm

re: #354 avanti

I think that wine story is too ridiculous to check. Next Obama will be planting arugula in the Rose Garden.

393 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:03:36pm

re: #374 avanti

Sorry, I did not see a sarc tag, hard to tell from the printed word.

Read again EXACTLY what I wrote. Not what you THINK I wrote. No mention of the rumor except as a quotation someone else wrote.

You sure prove Pavlov right every time you rush to defend Obama from even imagined slurs.

394 calcajun  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:03:37pm

re: #388 FrogMarch

Interesting. Yet so many use Hitler as a means to promote or demote whatever they want to promote or demote, truth be damned.

"Hitler was a Christian", "Hitler was an Atheist", "Hitler was a Darwinist", "Hitler was a Catholic..." on and on....

He was a vegetarian--and THAT'S why I eat red meat!

395 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:03:52pm

re: #361 robdouth

Please as an educational help to me, clarify this idea. I had heard that the Hitlers of the world and other mass-murderers relied on the ideas of eugenics. Is that what is a lie, or is it a lie to tie eugenics and darwinism. I'm not overly well-versed in either. Is there a simple picture that can be painted. I understand that claiming Hitler was influenced by Darwin is similar to saying Hitler relied on Christianity or the Passion story for his hatred of the Jews. Neither is based in fact. How does Eugenics factor in though?

Go to your room.

396 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:04:23pm

Not being a science denier will get you labeled "a weirdo" at Free Republic:

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

397 yochanan  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:04:39pm

STEELE WINS

398 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:04:44pm

The Gaza sob story continues.... Gaza economy in tatters...

Really? You don't say. Hamas has nothing to do with this? No, it's Israel's fault that the economy is in tatters, the borders with Israel are shut, and that the Gazans are suffering.

No mention that Egypt's borders are also shut, and that the terrorists are just itching to restart their war with Israel.

Agitprop. Pure, unadulterated agitprop.

399 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:04:50pm

re: #392 Kenneth

I think that wine story is too ridiculous to check. Next Obama will be planting arugula in the Rose Garden.

Don't you mean Arugula Garden? ;)

400 Kragar  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:05:03pm

re: #390 taxfreekiller

Steele 79
Dawson 69
Saul Anuzis 20

Saul just got out..

last vote

Steele only needs 6

Unless Dawson and Saul pull a deal and block Steele like McCain and Huckster did to Romney

401 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:05:05pm

re: #388 FrogMarch

Interesting. Yet so many use Hitler as a means to promote or demote whatever they want to promote or demote, truth be damned.

"Hitler was a Christian", "Hitler was an Atheist", "Hitler was a Darwinist", "Hitler was a Catholic..." on and on....

Hitler had a moustache. I am cleanshaven. I just wanted to point that out.

402 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:05:06pm

re: #381 J.S.

I believe that the poster is referring (in all liklihood) to the Catholic Church (i'm just guessing) when he refer's to that "great institution."

I understood that just fine - only it wasn't what this thread was all about.

403 wahabicorridor  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:05:14pm

Sorry, popping in while some things are marinating - haven't read the thread.

6. Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (Häckel).

Does anyone know what the rationale was?

404 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:05:26pm

re: #370 jwb7605

Everybody is fine, or at least we were until OR piped up.
After that, we just started babbling.
Cool colors, dude. Sparkly!

yeah, I like the colors too!

405 mean Gene  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:05:45pm

So, now we cannot ''like'' Free Republic.
Well, at least we got Michael Steele!

406 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:05:57pm

You're a "weirdo."

407 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:06:24pm

re: #396 Charles

Not being a science denier will get you labeled "a weirdo" at Free Republic:

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

Commenters #3 and #4 seem to be big fans, Charles.
//

408 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:06:31pm

re: #400 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Unless Dawson and Saul pull a deal and block Steele like McCain and Huckster did to Romney

If they pull a stunt like that the RNC loses what little respect I had.

And I do mean LITTLE.

409 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:06:33pm
410 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:07:02pm

re: #397 yochanan

STEELE WINS

Good. (I think.)

411 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:07:06pm

re: #396 Charles

Not being a science denier will get you labeled "a weirdo" at Free Republic:

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

Free Republic = Atlas Shrugs for generalists.

412 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:07:10pm

re: #392 Kenneth

I think that wine story is too ridiculous to check. Next Obama will be planting arugula in the Rose Garden.

Now don't go and give him any ideas!
You know how expensive that stuff is - he may well go in for a bit of aragula-growing ...

413 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:07:16pm

Drive-by post:

On the subject of the "Military to Pledge Oath To Obama, Not Constitution" spoof: Hovering your mouse pointer over the photoshopped pic at the top gives a little pop-up indicating the title or name of the pic. In this case, it is: "africoon-dictator-2.jpg". I do not like that.

On the subject of Klinghoffer: What a douche!

414 Jonathan Constantine  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:07:30pm

re: #376 Kenneth

You did make a rather direct swipe at science, directly associating it with Hitler & the Nazis. I found that to be both ignorant & offensive. Unless you care to recant that post, you earned my "fuck you" and can bloody well keep it.

I am not going to recant anything to you. I am more than open-minded and willing to concede good points through intelligent discussion. But you have just displayed your hateful ignorance for anyone who might disagree with you.

415 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:07:46pm

The only reason Republicans voted for Steele is because he's black.

/Dems.

416 gmsc  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:07:56pm

re: #397 yochanan

STEELE WINS

Yes!

417 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:07:57pm

re: #396 Charles

Not being a science denier will get you labeled "a weirdo" at Free Republic:

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

I always thought Free Republic had as much credibility as the New York Times. I see I was being generous.

418 mean Gene  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:08:00pm

re: #409 Iron Fist

Obama planted arugula in the Rose Garden? What, is he too good for Whole Foods now?

:-)

Everytime I went into Whole Foods I was put off by the smell.
Ewww!
So, I've never bought anything from there.
Is is good?
Or is it 0bamanable?

419 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:08:05pm

OK LIZARDIM -

STEELE WINS! This is good.

-S-

420 calcajun  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:08:28pm

re: #406 Ben Hur

You're a "weirdo."

I'm rubber and you're glue
Whatever you bounces off me
and sticks to you. Nyah!

421 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:08:46pm

re: #415 Ben Hur

The only reason Republicans voted for Steele is because he's black.

/Dems.

That is going to be the thinking of a number of RINOs I would bet.

422 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:08:47pm

re: #398 lawhawk

The Gaza sob story continues.... Gaza economy in tatters...

Really? You don't say. Hamas has nothing to do with this? No, it's Israel's fault that the economy is in tatters, the borders with Israel are shut, and that the Gazans are suffering.

No mention that Egypt's borders are also shut, and that the terrorists are just itching to restart their war with Israel.

Agitprop. Pure, unadulterated agitprop.

Agreed. And look at the name of the reporter propagandist: ALFRED de MONTESQUIOU. Probably Fwench.

423 J.S.  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:08:48pm

re: #361 robdouth

Social darwinism is "the problem." Certain individuals took Darwin's ideas (Darwin wrote about biology) and attempted to apply them to human societies...for example, Herbert Spencer concocted the notion of "survival of the fittest" (that's a misunderstanding of Darwin). Others then claimed that human beings which were "unfit" (in terms of "biology" or "inherited" problems) should not be allowed to "breed" 'cause that'd overwhelm humanity...(this in turn led to sterialization, whole races of people deemed "unfit", etc.) Wiki has articles about this topic..

424 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:08:48pm

re: #76 Jonathan Constantine

Hitler killed in the name of Science not Christianity. What were the scientists doing Europe while Pope Pius XII was saving the Jews from the Holocaust?

Oh for Pete's sake. He killed in the name of Naziism, fascism, and socialism, not science nor Christianity.

425 Empire1  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:08:49pm

Congratulations to Michael Steele!

426 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:08:58pm
427 Cathypop  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:09:00pm

re: #418 mean Gene

Everytime I went into Whole Foods I was put off by the smell.
Ewww!
So, I've never bought anything from there.
Is is good?
Or is it 0bamanable?


It's in the same family as dandy-lion and taste like crap.

428 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:09:02pm

re: #418 mean Gene

Everytime I went into Whole Foods I was put off by the smell.
Ewww!
So, I've never bought anything from there.
Is is good?
Or is it 0bamanable?


WORD!

429 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:09:14pm
430 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:09:15pm
431 schnapp  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:09:46pm

the nazis did believe in natural selection, but klinghoffer misconstrues the facts to suit him. it wasn't darwin's theory of natural selection and evolution, but rather nietzsche's theory of the will to power, that fascinated hitler.
darwin's evolutionary natural selection theories are very different, but easy for use as a scapegoat by creationists.

432 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:09:48pm

re: #413 Slumbering Behemoth

Hovering your mouse pointer over the photoshopped pic at the top gives a little pop-up indicating the title or name of the pic

That, plus the Magen David symbol on the lectern.

"Nazis! I hate these guys."

433 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:09:53pm

re: #418 mean Gene

Everytime I went into Whole Foods I was put off by the smell.

And that was just the other customers!
/Thank you, I'll be here all weekend.

434 calcajun  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:10:37pm

re: #410 Occasional Reader

Good. (I think.)

Now that's gonna be an interesting split screen for Steele to be on with Gov. Dean as DNC chair and his smart-assed remarks about minorities being at GOP affairs as only the servers.

435 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:10:51pm
436 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:10:52pm

re: #401 Occasional Reader

Hitler had a moustache. I am cleanshaven. I just wanted to point that out.

And I wear a beard. Not only that, Hitler had a German Shephard, while I have a Jindo.

437 Occasional Reader  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:10:57pm

re: #418 mean Gene

Everytime I went into Whole Foods I was put off by the smell.
Ewww!
So, I've never bought anything from there.
Is is good?
Or is it 0bamanable?

I'd say it's 1) good, 2) expensive, and 3) inadvertently hilarious (because you can save the planet by shopping there, see).

438 FrogMarch  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:11:01pm

re: #401 Occasional Reader

Hitler had a moustache. I am cleanshaven. I just wanted to point that out.

I glad you pointed that out. Anyone with a moustache is Hitler! oh and Bush is Hitler, because they both went to war and killed all the Jews.

439 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:11:29pm

re: #415 Ben Hur

The only reason Republicans voted for Steele is because he's black.

/Dems.

Ben Hur -

Being "Black" is icing on the cake. Steele can speak well and give as good as he gets, lets see what he can do.

-S-

440 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:12:06pm
441 vapig  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:12:33pm

re: #397 yochanan

STEELE WINS

Whoa-Hooo!

442 Kenneth  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:12:36pm

re: #414 Jonathan Constantine

I am not going to recant anything to you. I am more than open-minded and willing to concede good points through intelligent discussion. But you have just displayed your hateful ignorance for anyone who might disagree with you.

I look forward to reading your first attempts.

443 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:13:25pm

re: #432 Occasional Reader

Interesting. Is this a subtlety I had not picked up on? What I mean is, is that supposed to be a Jews=Nazis implication there in that pic?

444 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:13:33pm

re: #425 Empire1

Congratulations to Michael Steele!

I'm just waiting to see the twisted pretzel convolutions the democrats put themselves through to denounce Steele. No doubt to them, he is not authentic.....whatever the fuck that means........
*spit*

445 calcajun  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:13:42pm

re: #439 Dr. Shalit

Ben Hur -

Being "Black" is icing on the cake. Steele can speak well and give as good as he gets, lets see what he can do.

-S-

"Black"? Steele is black? I just thought he was just real swarthy.

446 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:13:42pm

re: #436 Cato the Elder

And I wear a beard. Not only that, Hitler had a German Shephard, while I have a Jindo.

Awww - hat looks like a good breed!

447 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:14:09pm
448 Kenneth  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:14:42pm

re: #401 Occasional Reader

Remember when Miss Trixie wrote a post about the time she thought she would surprise her hubby by trimming her... ummm... you know... in the classic "landing strip" style? Her hubby said it looked like Hitler's moustache. Miss Trixie said that was the one and only time he said anything remotely funny.

449 calcajun  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:15:05pm

re: #447 taxfreekiller

Now, take McCain's ugly mug down off all the Party Headquarters put up
Michale Steele's and go to work deleting the f'n RINO's.

The Senate Vote on this commie spending deal is the line in the sand.

Vote with Obama and the commies now,,, your out on your ass, RINO's.

Are RINO horns an aphrodisiac? I say let's poach a few and find out.

450 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:15:30pm

re: #448 Kenneth

Remember when Miss Trixie wrote a post about the time she thought she would surprise her hubby by trimming her... ummm... you know... in the classic "landing strip" style? Her hubby said it looked like Hitler's moustache. Miss Trixie said that was the one and only time he said anything remotely funny.

I always thought Hitler was a pussy.

451 calcajun  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:16:04pm

re: #446 yma o hyd

Awww - hat looks like a good breed!

Jindo = Akita lite.

I'm biased to my two big beasts.

452 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:17:19pm

re: #451 calcajun

Jindo = Akita lite.

I'm biased to my two big beasts.

I'm biased towards big b..., wait, you said beasts.

453 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:17:33pm

re: #446 yma o hyd

Awww - hat looks like a good breed!

It is! They can sense Holocaust deniers, troofers, creationists and Freepers, just to name a few, and then they piss on their legs!

454 jcm  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:22:27pm

re: #397 yochanan

STEELE WINS

Yeah, but is clean, articulate and authentic?
Huh?
Huh?

/

455 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:22:50pm

re: #451 calcajun

Jindo = Akita lite.

I'm biased to my two big beasts.

Akitas are truly impressive.
But as I'm also biased, I'll stick with my true housewolves, the Border Collies ...

:-))

456 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:24:23pm

re: #453 Cato the Elder

It is! They can sense Holocaust deniers, troofers, creationists and Freepers, just to name a few, and then they piss on their legs!

Teeheehee!

Boder Collies would herd them into little groups - any twitch and they'd get nipped, hard ...

457 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:24:52pm

re: #452 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I'm biased towards big b..., wait, you said beasts.

Jindos are apartment-sized dogs. But they're strong as can be!

I like the fact that there's a whole range of sizes, from the Shiba Inu all the way up to the Akita.

(Who knew this would turn into a dog thread?)

458 capitalist piglet  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:26:35pm

re: #444 LGoPs

I'm just waiting to see the twisted pretzel convolutions the democrats put themselves through to denounce Steele. No doubt to them, he is not authentic.....whatever the fuck that means........
*spit*

Well, liberals already threw Oreos at him in vulgar display...they'll think of something.

459 Empire1  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:26:56pm

re: #444 LGoPs

I'm just waiting to see the twisted pretzel convolutions the democrats put themselves through to denounce Steele. No doubt to them, he is not authentic.....whatever the fuck that means........
*spit*

Yup, watching that should definitely be fun!

460 capitalist piglet  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:27:31pm

re: #456 yma o hyd

Teeheehee!

Boder Collies would herd them into little groups - any twitch and they'd get nipped, hard ...

I have a Corgi who herds like he's on steroids...I'm about the only person he doesn't think he can tell where to go.

461 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:28:29pm

re: #456 yma o hyd

Teeheehee!

Boder Collies would herd them into little groups - any twitch and they'd get nipped, hard ...

The combination of a pack of Jindos and a pack of Border Collies, with a pack of Akitas as force protection, would set even the biggest group of loonbats to flight!

And then, we'd attack them with flying pigs.

462 offendi  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:28:31pm

The time has come for Israelis to have a government that reflects their own interests first, and not making the State Department or their Saudi friends happy.
No one here would ever accept St. Louis, New Rochelle, Ketchum, San Diego, or Boston, being open to missile attack, as the State Department has counseled Israel to engage in "restraint".

463 godfrey  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:29:38pm

re: #43 MandyManners

I ain't wearing no whale-bone corset.

How's about jus' a bit of one for me, luv?

464 robdouth  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:30:55pm

re: #377 Charles

There's a link in the post above that addresses this question.

[Link: www.expelledexposed.com...]

Yeah I guess next time read the links before jumping in and inserting foot in mouth with questions that are already answered. It's like in Clerks when the girl is in front of the 99c stand asking about the prices.

465 lostlakehiker  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:31:54pm

The Discovery Institute lead to Stalin.

Here's why: in the early years of the Soviet Union, Darwin was seen as anti-soviet doctrine, because it held that man could not indefinitely improve both himself and his crops and farm animals by just sheer willpower. There had to be time for biology to do its thing.

The Soviets were dead set on demonstrating that there were no limits at all to what could be achieved with sheer willpower. Stakhanovite Man could achieve prodigies. Out with Darwin! New Man would be new and better, and would have cows that gave way more milk, because under Socialism, of course there is More Milk.

With Mao and the Great Leap Forward, we see it again. There is a vehement rejection of science, because science, with its emphasis on logic and reason, stands athwart the Will to Power of the newly high and mighty, who are, in their own minds, elevated to a kind of godhood.

This is where a rejection of reason, skepticism, and scrupulous respect for inconvenient truths (the real kind, not Al Gore's presumptuous appropriation of the phrase) gets you.

466 calcajun  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:32:12pm

re: #452 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I'm biased towards big b..., wait, you said beasts.

Two 100+ pound Akitas. Great home protection system.

467 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:32:13pm

re: #457 Cato the Elder

Jindos are apartment-sized dogs. But they're strong as can be!

I like the fact that there's a whole range of sizes, from the Shiba Inu all the way up to the Akita.

(Who knew this would turn into a dog thread?)


Shiba Inus are very pretty, I've seen some around.

While I'm very partial to one breed, I actually fall for anything with a wet nose at the front, a wagging tail at the end, and beseeching eyes in between.

468 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:33:59pm

re: #460 capitalist piglet

I have a Corgi who herds like he's on steroids...I'm about the only person he doesn't think he can tell where to go.

Ah - the Queen's favourite breed!

Corgis can be fierce herders. Oh, and they're of course a Welsh breed :-))

469 Mr Secul  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:34:12pm

re: #384 calcajun

I rather doubt that Prof. Darwin was unacquainted with the writings of Father Mendel...and vice versa.

Read this all of it.

470 calcajun  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:34:30pm

re: #467 yma o hyd

Shiba Inus are very pretty, I've seen some around

They are psycho dogs. I've never seen one that won't go off at a stranger.

471 Lynn B.  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:34:31pm

The Jerusalem Post is on a (bad) roll here. They published this one last week (I posted it to the spin-offs previously):

Darwin and Obama

However history may come to judge the Obama era, his very victory symbolizes an emergence from the shadows of a man who has set the tone for our lives and outlooks more lastingly than any political leader. Charles Darwin clarified man's origins in nature and prophesied "a secure future of great length" in which "all corporeal and mental endowments will tend to progress towards perfection." But Darwin also subjugated the destiny of his species to the primacy of biology and thereby placed an enormous obstacle in the way of its development. His theory of evolution has fostered a way of thinking that until quite recently made the election of a biracial man from a working-class background to the most powerful political post in the world seem like a utopian dream.

Darwin's shadow looms above his name by three little letters: i, s and m. No other natural scientist of his stature, neither a Newton nor an Einstein nor a Heisenberg, has ever gone down in history as the founder of an ism. But Darwin has had to pay a heavy posthumous price for this honor. In common parlance Darwinism has come to stand for social Darwinism, for the rat race and the validation of the stronger in today's all-pervasive dog-eat-dog world. Labeling someone a Darwinist is rarely meant as a compliment.

... etc.

472 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:35:50pm

re: #461 Cato the Elder

The combination of a pack of Jindos and a pack of Border Collies, with a pack of Akitas as force protection, would set even the biggest group of loonbats to flight!

And then, we'd attack them with flying pigs.

Sounds good to me - I can see those dogs working together - with a huge grin on their faces!

Pigs need to have had some training by sea gulls first, though ...

473 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:36:06pm

re: #447 taxfreekiller

Now, take McCain's ugly mug down off all the Party Headquarters put up
Michale Steele's and go to work deleting the f'n RINO's.

The Senate Vote on this commie spending deal is the line in the sand.

Vote with Obama and the commies now,,, your out on your ass, RINO's.

Joe Lieberman, Jim Jeffords, John McCain. The independent party.
Works for me ...

474 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:38:38pm

Gotta go, Lizards - that housewolf of mine, pocket sized as she is, has expressed her wish for immediate attention.

I still marvel at how well our dogs have trained us :-)))

Seeya tomorrow, all being well.

475 Cato  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:41:26pm

Charles,

This topic ought be left to serious scholars. That Nazis did not directly let Darwin be read does not mean they were not influenced by the theory. Jonah Goldberg makes the case in his latest book on Fascisim. On the other hand, some of Jonah's scholarship is shoddy, so I do not trust all of his arguments. It is more likely that neo-Darwinists like Herbert Spencer provided the Nazis with just what they were looking for.

I believe that Nazis were people in search of a reason rather than people persuaded by a reason to be anti-semitic. It is a case of attitude looking for a philosophy rather than a philosophy borne of experience and reason.

476 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:43:59pm

re: #467 yma o hyd

Shiba Inus are very pretty, I've seen some around.

While I'm very partial to one breed, I actually fall for anything with a wet nose at the front, a wagging tail at the end, and beseeching eyes in between.

Agreed.

Did you know there's a native Spitz-type breed from Israel?

Meet the Canaan Dog!

477 offendi  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:46:42pm

re: #473 jwb7605

McCain is not a bad man. but he is out of touch and nationally irrelevant. People did not vote for him personally. but for the continuation of Republican policies and conservatism.
His ego and narcissism in this campaign, in my opinion, was out of control
and excessive.
The future does not rest with the pathetic maverick.

478 Tigger2005  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:57:33pm

re: #462 offendi

The time has come for Israelis to have a government that reflects their own interests first, and not making the State Department or their Saudi friends happy.
No one here would ever accept St. Louis, New Rochelle, Ketchum, San Diego, or Boston, being open to missile attack, as the State Department has counseled Israel to engage in "restraint".

No one would accept it? Why not? Over the past 8 years we've learned that lots of our fellow citizens are quite accepting of people hijacking our planes and flying them into our buildings. It's just the chickens coming home to roost, they say.

479 Basho  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 2:05:17pm

Nature Video: David Attenborough on Darwin

480 Salamantis  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 2:08:31pm

re: #61 Jonathan Constantine

The point is not Darwin per say or whether he was mentioned in Mein Kampf (Darwin wasn't anti-Christian), the point is the moral superiority of science over Catholicism. Which is in fact untrue. Hitler saw Christianity as an obstacle to "science."

[Link: pinker.wjh.harvard.edu...]

Excerpt:

Q: A common fear seems to be: "But if genetic determinism is actually true, doesn't that mean the Nazis were right?"

A: Genetic determinism is not true. Except for a few neurological disorders, no behavioral trait is determined with 100 percent probability by the genome, or anything else (we know this because identical twins are only similar, not indistinguishable, in their personality and intellect). Of course, even a statistical influence of the genes does not mean that the Nazis were right. Factually, they were wrong in believing that races and ethnic groups are qualitatively distinct in their biology, that they occupy different rungs on an evolutionary ladder, that they differ in morally worthy traits like courage and honesty, and that "superior" groups were endangered by interbreeding with "inferior" ones. Morally, they were wrong in causing the deaths of some 35 million innocent people and horrific suffering to countless others.

Your question, of course, alludes to a conventional wisdom among left-leaning academics that genes imply genocide. But the 20th century suffered “two” ideologies that led to genocides. The other one, Marxism, had no use for race, didn't believe in genes and denied that human nature was a meaningful concept. Clearly, it's not an emphasis on genes or evolution that is dangerous. It's the desire to remake humanity by coercive means (eugenics or social engineering) and the belief that humanity advances through a struggle in which superior groups (race or classes) triumph over inferior ones.

481 Basho  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 2:11:42pm

re: #115 MandyManners

Wasn't there an attempt to make anti-Semitism a "scientific theory"?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

482 Salamantis  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 2:11:58pm

re: #76 Jonathan Constantine

Hitler killed in the name of Science not Christianity. What were the scientists doing Europe while Pope Pius XII was saving the Jews from the Holocaust?

Hitler killed in the name of German racial superiority, which is not scientifically supported. The first treaty that Hitler signed upon assuming power in Germany was with the Holy See, as he was raised Catholic, and remarked to his chief of staff, Werner Gerhard, as late as 1941 that he would always remain one.

483 Salamantis  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 2:18:29pm

re: #101 Kenneth

WTF? Educate yourself before making an idiotic statement like that. There was absolutely nothing scientific about Naziism. It was a bizarre occult pseudo-pagan cult wrapped up with military fascism and racial chauvinism, laced with a nasty streak of religious bigotry.

Actually, it got its antisemitism straight from the clerics' mouths - both Catholic and Protestant, including Protestantism's German founder, Martin Luther, who penned an antisemitic diatribe entitled On The Jews And Their Lies.

484 Salamantis  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 2:31:39pm

re: #170 Jonathan Constantine

Excuse yourself for your rude comments. There are many who claim the mantle of science to defame traditional Catholocism (which isn't anti-Science). After all Hitler did say:

He also said these things:

[Link: www.skeptically.org...]

Born and bred a Catholic, he grew up in a religion and in a culture that was anti-semitic, and in persecuting Jews, he repeatedly proclaimed he was doing the "Lord's work."

You will find it in Mein Kampf.- "Therefore, I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work."

Hitler said it again at a Nazi Christmas celebration in 1926: "Christ was the greatest early fighter in the battle against the world enemy, the Jews . . . The work that Christ started but could not finish, I--Adolf Hitler--will conclude."

In a Reichstag speech in 1938, Hitler again echoed the religious origins of his crusade. "I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews, I am fighting for the Lord's work. "

Hitler regarded himself as a Catholic until he died. "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so," he told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals, in 1941.

And these:

[Link: www.liberalslikechrist.org...]

"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who - God's truth! - was greatest, not as a sufferer, but as a fighter."

"In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison.

"Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross."

"As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice . And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery.

When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exploited."

485 Salamantis  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 2:40:16pm

re: #224 Jonathan Constantine

Consider this quote as an endorsement of social natural selection:

These quotes also appear on that site:

The conception of the new Movement, whose fundamentals can be expressed in a single sentence: "The Lord helps those who help themselves," opposed this. That is not only a very pious phrase, but a very just one. For one cannot assume that God exists to help people who are too cowardly and too lazy to help themselves and think that God exists only to make up for the weakness of mankind. He does not exist for that purpose. He has always, at all times, blessed only those who were prepared to fight their own battles. …
Providence has not led us along these amazing paths in vain. On the day that the party was founded I recalled that our nation once gained immense victories. Then it became ungrateful, disunited, sinned against itself. Thereupon it was punished by Providence. We deserved our defeat. If a nation forgets itself as completely as the German nation did at that time, if it thinks that it can shake off all honor and all good faith, Providence can do nothing but teach it a hard and bitter lesson. But even at that time we were convinced that once our nation found itself again, once it again became industrious and honorable, once each individual German stood up for his nation first and not for himself, once he placed the interests of the community above his own personal interests, once the whole nation again pursued a great ideal, once it was prepared to stake everything for this ideal, the hour would come when the Lord would declare our trials at an end.

If fate should once more call us to the battlefield, the blessing of Providence will be with those who have merited it by years of hard work. When I compare myself and my opponents in other countries in the light of history, I do not fear the verdict on our respective mentalities. Who are these egoists? Each one of them merely defends the interests of his class. Behind them all stands either the Jew or their own moneybags. They are all nothing but money-grubbers, living on the profits of this war. No blessing can come of that. I oppose these people merely as the 0 champion of my country. I am convinced that our struggle will in the future be blessed by Providence, as it has been blessed up to now.

speech in Munich, 24 February 1941

God the Almighty has made our nation. By defending its existence we are defending His work. …
Only He can relieve me of this duty Who called me to it. It was in the hand of Providence to snuff me out by the bomb that exploded only one and a half meters from me on July 20, and thus to terminate my life's work. That the Almighty protected me on that day I consider a renewed affirmation of the task entrusted to me. …

Therefore, it is all the more necessary on this twelfth anniversary of the rise to power to strengthen the heart more than ever before and to steel ourselves in the holy determination to wield the sword, no-matter where and under what circumstances, until final victory crowns our efforts. …

In the years to come I shall continue on this road, uncompromisingly safeguarding my people's interests, oblivious to all misery and danger, and filled with the holy conviction that God the Almighty will not abandon him who, during all his life, had no desire but to save his people from a fate it had never deserved, neither by virtue of its number nor by way of its importance. …

In vowing ourselves to one another, we are entitled to stand before the Almighty and ask Him for His grace and His blessing. No people can do more than that everybody who can fight, fights, and that everybody who can work, works, and that they all sacrifice in common, filled with but one thought: to safeguard freedom and national honor and thus the future of life.

486 Salamantis  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 2:45:51pm

re: #279 yochanan

PLANNED PARENTHOOD came out of the racist eugenics movement some say that the reason they have so many of there abortion mills in minority communities.

Well the Third Reich has lebensborns, or baby mills, where women were bred to SS officers selected for Aryan characteristics. And abortion clinics are built where the business is, that is, in population centers (one built in a desolate desert would quickly go bankrupt). They force no one in their doors.

487 Jonathan Constantine  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 2:48:04pm

re: #377 Charles

Charles,

Carrier's article is enlightening. And Honary Yooper is absolutely right: paganism, fascism, and Nazism did contribute to The Holocaust. But applied to these concepts during that age of nationalism was an institutionalized racism that reflected what Darwin explained: that life was a competitive struggle for existence. Yes, these concepts are innocent and were perverted by his successors. But unlike social Darwinists, Christian charity isn't about disposing of the "undesirables," and those of different races to make the state unified and stronger, and realizing the creation of a master race.


Klinghoffer's comments are in response to criticism of Benedict XVI, the accusation that the Church has a history with antisemitism, and the issue of Bishop Williamson. But much of the dismay against Benedict originated from his revival of the Good Friday prayers. You linked to a Der Spiegel interview on this issue almost a year ago when Rabbi Walter Homolka said that prayers for Jews was a continuation of Hitler's policies. How can the two be reconciled if Pius XII's deeds and Christendom at large were antithetical to Hitler's motives?

If I were to accept the article you linked by Richard Carrier as debunking bad translation, and I trust your judgment, Carrier wasn't without noting that Hitler viewed the Catholic Church as a threat. I found the quote he cited as particular noteworthy:

"Christ was an Aryan.6 But Paul used his teachings to mobilize the underworld and organize a proto-bolshevism. With its breakdown, the beautiful clarity of the ancient world was lost."

Carrier's following explanation is plausible, but once again it doesn't contradict my assertions that traditional Catholicism was a huge threat to Hitler's desire to make himself stronger at the expense of another another race's extinction:

Here, Hitler's position is more subtle. First, Hitler does not deny Christ but claims Christ for himself (Jesus was an Aryan and therefore his noble predecessor). Second, he attacks not Christianity but the Catholic tradition, in effect the elements of church doctrine that are pro-communist and anti-fascist, and thus hostile to Hitler's authoritarian program. As it happens, in both entries Hitler refers to the "ancient world" as "beautiful," refers to its "breakdown," and talks about the "mobilization" of "Proto-Bolshevism." It seems possible, then, that the mysterious entry for 19 October is something Bormann reconstructed from a faulty memory of what was actually said three weeks later, which Picker and Heim produced correctly.

488 Salamantis  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 2:49:33pm

re: #334 Jonathan Constantine

I'm sorry for the late response. I am reviewing the material Charles sent me. My point is that Williamson's terrible comments are utilized by people to attack a great institution which has done so much good for the World (ie: Helping Jews during the Holocaust). Benedict wasn't merely trying to save face when he visited the Memorial at Auschwitz, this is apart of the compassionate tradition, that is often misinterpreted.

I am not anti-Darwin or anti-Science, however those who claim its self-righteousness have no leg to stand on when people have used it for evil.

The technologies made possible by empirical science are value neutral; whether it be guns or nukes or gene splicing, it is the people who use them who do good or evil.

489 Jonathan Constantine  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 2:51:32pm

re: #488 Salamantis

That's very true, but utilizing the scientific method for competition purposes are not.

490 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 2:55:15pm

re: #487 Jonathan Constantine

But applied to these concepts during that age of nationalism was an institutionalized racism that reflected what Darwin explained: that life was a competitive struggle for existence.

This is not correct. Social Darwinism was a perversion of Darwin's theories, never promoted by Darwin himself. Its influence on the Third Reich is debatable, but one thing is very clear: by far the more important influence on the Nazis was classic European antisemitism, the deeply rooted irrational hatred that goes back centuries. Compared to this, the influence of Social Darwinism, if any, was vanishingly small.

491 Salamantis  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 2:59:15pm

re: #487 Jonathan Constantine

Charles,

Carrier's article is enlightening. And Honary Yooper is absolutely right: paganism, fascism, and Nazism did contribute to The Holocaust. But applied to these concepts during that age of nationalism was an institutionalized racism that reflected what Darwin explained: that life was a competitive struggle for existence. Yes, these concepts are innocent and were perverted by his successors. But unlike social Darwinists, Christian charity isn't about disposing of the "undesirables," and those of different races to make the state unified and stronger, and realizing the creation of a master race.

Umm...Honorary Yooper didn't mention Paganism; you falsely attributed that to him.

And in the Middle Ages, Christians were not above killing peoples' bodies in order to save their souls. Native American infants were baptized in Central America and then grabbed and swung by the heels and their skulls smashed against stone walls so that their souls would not be damned by being raised oin their parents' heathen ways.

Klinghoffer's comments are in response to criticism of Benedict XVI, the accusation that the Church has a history with antisemitism, and the issue of Bishop Williamson. But much of the dismay against Benedict originated from his revival of the Good Friday prayers. You linked to a Der Spiegel interview on this issue almost a year ago when Rabbi Walter Homolka said that prayers for Jews was a continuation of Hitler's policies. How can the two be reconciled if Pius XII's deeds and Christendom at large were antithetical to Hitler's motives?

If I were to accept the article you linked by Richard Carrier as debunking bad translation, and I trust your judgment, Carrier wasn't without noting that Hitler viewed the Catholic Church as a threat. I found the quote he cited as particular noteworthy:

Carrier's following explanation is plausible, but once again it doesn't contradict my assertions that traditional Catholicism was a huge threat to Hitler's desire to make himself stronger at the expense of another another race's extinction:

Hitler was a murderous power-hungry opportunist who used whatever was available to him - be it religion or ideology - in order to gain and maintain power and widen the parameters and scope of his reach and control. His Final Solution was a massive pandering to some of the basest antisemitic antipathies infecting the seamy underbelly of Christianity, and it gained him fealty and favor from those Christians who shared those ugly urges.

492 Salamantis  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 3:03:20pm

Evolutionary theory is the very antithesis of eugenics. Evolutionary theorists would be in favor of leaving environmental selection be to pursue its process undisturbed; it was the eugenicists who wanted to substitute their own pet 'intelligent designs' upon the human race, as animal husbanders have done with their farm stock for millennia, and as was first suggested by Plato, millennia before Darwin was ever born.

493 Jonathan Constantine  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 3:06:22pm

re: #490 Charles

Charles,

Sorry if I didn't articulate it properly. I meant Darwin's concepts applied to nations and people. I don't believe Darwin was anti-Christian or advocated racism.

However, I have to disagree on the Church being the catalyst of "classic European antisemitism" (If that's what you meant). That I believe is Hitlerian.

--Jonathan

494 Salamantis  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 3:06:41pm

re: #489 Jonathan Constantine

That's very true, but utilizing the scientific method for competition purposes are not.

You mean to say that it is morally wrong for countries and corporations to compete in the economic arena via science-based technology that allows them to produce more and higher quality products cheaper, and thus providing people with both gainful employment and the necessity of spending less of it for the things that they need?

495 Jonathan Constantine  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 3:08:20pm

re: #491 Salamantis

Excuse me, my mistake "socialism," but paganism had its role too.

496 Jonathan Constantine  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 3:09:13pm

re: #494 Salamantis

Nope all I said was you can apply a value judgment when science is used for a motive -- good or bad --

497 Sharmuta  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 3:11:19pm

re: #323 faraway

When will Discovery Institute attack? Soon?

They're currently waging a battle in Texas.

498 Sharmuta  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 3:13:36pm

re: #351 Killgore Trout

You have a digital OCRed copy of Mein Kampf? Is there a link?

499 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 3:20:01pm

re: #493 Jonathan Constantine

Charles,

Sorry if I didn't articulate it properly. I meant Darwin's concepts applied to nations and people. I don't believe Darwin was anti-Christian or advocated racism.

However, I have to disagree on the Church being the catalyst of "classic European antisemitism" (If that's what you meant). That I believe is Hitlerian.

--Jonathan

"Darwin's concepts applied to nations and people" is known as Social Darwinism, and it's a perversion of Darwin's theories, not a valid application of them -- as I said previously.

And I did not say anything about the Church being the catalyst of European antisemitism, but if you want to get into that, there's a LOT of evidence contradicting your claim.

Sorry, but you're not going to be able to get away with promoting this line of argument here.

500 Salamantis  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 3:21:23pm

re: #496 Jonathan Constantine

Nope all I said was you can apply a value judgment when science is used for a motive -- good or bad --

You can apply a value judgment when ANYTHING is used for a good or bad motive, but the value judgment is properly appled to the motive, not to the means. Hitler's genocide would have been no less horrendous had he employed other ways to kill Jews than the ones he in fact employed.

501 Salamantis  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 3:23:55pm

re: #495 Jonathan Constantine

Excuse me, my mistake "socialism," but paganism had its role too.

Paganism had much less of a role in Hitler's germany than did Christianity. It is in Christianity, not Norse paganism, that historical antisemitism festered for centuries before the rise of the Reich.

502 Basho  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 3:42:44pm

re: #493 Jonathan Constantine

However, I have to disagree on the Church being the catalyst of "classic European antisemitism" (If that's what you meant). That I believe is Hitlerian.

--Jonathan

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

503 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 3:46:13pm

Why would the Jerusalem Post publish this crap?

504 Throbert McGee  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 3:47:14pm

I submitted a comment to the Jerusalem Post urging Mr. Klinghoffer to check out the FAQ at sspx.org (i.e., the website of the reactionary Catholic splinter group that Williamson belongs to). There you'll find, among other choice tidbits, the "Jews Killed Jesus" charge reaffirmed.

505 Jonathan Constantine  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 3:47:35pm

re: #499 Charles

Sorry, but you're not going to be able to get away with promoting this line of argument here.

I am merely presenting an opinion on the facts. Whether that complies with your conclusion on this matter that's your deal. Since this is your blog, I guess the debate is over.

Thank you for promoting my work at UCI and God Bless you on all the good work you do for America and Israel.

--JC

506 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 3:58:53pm

re: #505 Jonathan Constantine

I am merely presenting an opinion on the facts. Whether that complies with your conclusion on this matter that's your deal. Since this is your blog, I guess the debate is over.

Thank you for promoting my work at UCI and God Bless you on all the good work you do for America and Israel.

--JC

I'm not trying to stop you from posting here, but I don't have much patience with the Darwin=Hitler argument, because it's simply not true. It's a deceptive smear tactic used by special interest groups like the Discovery Institute to promote their creationist agenda -- and when I say that you're not going to get away with promoting it here, I mean that you're going to be strongly challenged.

507 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 4:01:17pm

re: #504 Throbert McGee

I submitted a comment to the Jerusalem Post urging Mr. Klinghoffer to check out the FAQ at sspx.org (i.e., the website of the reactionary Catholic splinter group that Williamson belongs to). There you'll find, among other choice tidbits, the "Jews Killed Jesus" charge reaffirmed.

Could you provide a link to that? They don't have a search function, and I have no intention of wading through mounds of their crap to find it.

508 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 4:22:05pm

re: #253 LeePro

Point #1:
Mandy ROCKS!

Point #2 (OT):
I see by your profile that you are a "conservative bureaucrat from Georgia." I have a personal beef with certain individuals (mostly in Atlanta, I think) concerning my father's original art and an unprincipled person who claims (publicly, via one govt-based website) ownership of origin of this artwork. City/state officials have not cooperated.

My nic is blue (for email). Please contact me. You may or may not be able to help me, but I have to try!

Sent you an e-mail.

509 Throbert McGee  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 4:40:55pm

Speaking of the FAQ at the sspx.org site, here are a couple of joooo-cy tidbits to chew on:

The attempt to describe one’s morality or principles as "Judeo-Christian" ... could theoretically be used to describe one’s attachment to the ... Ten Commandments... and which the Church received from the Israelites. However, there are a couple of problems. The first one is that the Jews themselves in the time of Our Lord, did not keep the moral principles of the Old Law, as Our Lord did not cease reiterating. How could one possibly use the title of "Judeo-Christian heritage" to express one’s attachment to these principles, when the Jews themselves practiced polygamy and divorce; when the Jews did not hesitate to undermine the first and great commandment of the love of God and neighbor, by teaching the exact opposite: "love your neighbor and hate your enemy" (Mt. 5:43), or "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" (Mt. 5:38)? How could we possibly use this title when the vast majority of Jews have no problem with euthanasia, abortion, birth control, divorce, homosexuality, and even the elimination of God, and love towards our neighbor from public life, politics, education and the courts? What could this title "Judeo-Christian heritage" consequently really mean?

Not only that, but did you know that Jews think they're racially superior to everyone else? It's right here on the SSPX.org website, so it must be true:

[The Jews] put their national life above the supernatural life of Grace and set racial descent from Abraham according to the flesh on a higher plane than spiritual descent from Abraham by faith. Having put their race and nation in the place of God, having in fact deified them, they rejected the supernatural Messiah and elaborated a program of preparation for the natural Messiah to come.

The SSPX also has a problem with Jewish "naturalism," which may be why that yidiot Klinghoffer from the Discovery Institute was so eager to be an SSPX apologist. The SSPX website approvingly quotes one Fr. Fahey:

For the Jews, "Anti-Semitism" is anything that is in opposition to the naturalistic Messanic domination of their nation over all the others. Quite logically, the leaders of the Jewish nation hold that to stand for the Rights of Christ the King is to be "Anti-Semitic." The term "Anti-Semitism," ... is being extended to include any form of opposition to the Jewish nation’s naturalistic aims and any exposure of the methods they adopt to achieve these aims.

Curse those naturalistic Jews! Oh, wait -- they're already cursed:

This curse is the punishment of blindness to the things of God and eternity, of deafness to the call of conscience and to the love of good and hatred of evil which is the basis of all moral life, of spiritual paralysis, of total preoccupation with an earthly kingdom. It is this that sets them as a people in entire opposition with the Catholic Church and its supernatural plan for the salvation of souls.

What a repulsive crowd.

510 Sharmuta  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 4:42:24pm

re: #509 Throbert McGee

Repulsive is one of a few words I would use for that crowd.

511 Throbert McGee  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 4:42:59pm

re: #507 Cato the Elder

Could you provide a link to that? They don't have a search function, and I have no intention of wading through mounds of their crap to find it.

Click on the "they're already cursed" link in my post #509 -- it goes to the deicide page.

512 Jonathan Constantine  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 4:48:47pm

re: #506 Charles

Thank you Charles. I am just as strong in my opinions as you are.

I refuse to be boxed into being a creationist advocate or devout in evolution theory. So the tactic need not apply.

As for your belief in the spuriousness of Darwin=Hitler, traditional Catholic=Antisemitism is extremely profound.

513 Salamantis  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 4:53:00pm

re: #512 Jonathan Constantine

Thank you Charles. I am just as strong in my opinions as you are.

I refuse to be boxed into being a creationist advocate or devout in evolution theory. So the tactic need not apply.

As for your belief in the spuriousness of Darwin=Hitler, traditional Catholic=Antisemitism is extremely profound.

Truth is not a matter of a popularity contest. Nor does fervency of belief translate into correctness of stance; otherwise, the jihadis would be right.

514 Jonathan Constantine  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 4:56:10pm

re: #513 Salamantis


Truth is not a matter of a popularity contest. Nor does fervency of belief translate into correctness of stance; otherwise, the jihadis would be right.

Never said it was. I am just responding to the fact that I would be "strongly challenged."

515 Throbert McGee  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 5:22:44pm

Oh, I just found this quote from Williamson in the wikipedia entry about the Society of St. Pius X:

"Until the Jews re-discover their true Messianic vocation [i.e., until the Jews accept Jesus as their Messiah -- Th.M.] , they may be expected to continue fanatically agitating, in accordance with their false messianic vocation of Jewish world-dominion, to prepare the Anti-Christ's throne in Jerusalem. So we may fear their continuing to play their major part in the agitation of the East and in the corruption of the West. Here the wise Catholic will remember that, again, the ex-Christian nations have only their own Liberalism to blame for allowing free circulation within Christendom to the enemies of Christ."

Oh, yeah -- SSPX has a beef with "Liberalism," too. Meaning not "liberalism" in the sense of hippie progressive NPR-listeners, but rather John Stuart Mill and Adam Smith and Thomas Jefferson and that radical First Amendment nonsense.

516 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 5:28:24pm

re: #515 Throbert McGee

Oh, I just found this quote from Williamson in the wikipedia entry about the Society of St. Pius X:

Oh, yeah -- SSPX has a beef with "Liberalism," too. Meaning not "liberalism" in the sense of hippie progressive NPR-listeners, but rather John Stuart Mill and Adam Smith and Thomas Jefferson and that radical First Amendment nonsense.

Wow. Throwbacks!

517 stuiec  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 5:29:29pm

re: #515 Throbert McGee

In this context, "Liberalism" also refers to the notion of allowing Jews out of ghettoes.

518 Grimace  Sat, Jan 31, 2009 12:02:12am

For a primer on Darwinian evolution and its role in political thought and action, I recommend Harry V. Jaffa's A New Birth of Freedom: Abraham Lincoln and the Coming of the Civil War. You might find it particularly interesting Charles.

519 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 31, 2009 9:36:56am

re: #518 Grimace

For a primer on Darwinian evolution and its role in political thought and action, I recommend Harry V. Jaffa's A New Birth of Freedom: Abraham Lincoln and the Coming of the Civil War. You might find it particularly interesting Charles.

Jaffa is a proponent of "intelligent design," and has admitted that he never even read Darwin's work.

This reminds me of a conversation I had years ago with Harry Jaffa. He criticized Darwin. I responded by quoting some passages from Darwin's Descent of Man. Jaffa then confessed that he had never read Darwin.

If you research Jaffa, you will quickly discover that he has very basic misunderstandings about Darwin's theory of natural selection. Jaffa's contention that Darwin's theories justified slavery is not only scurrilous, it's completely wrong, because Darwin himself was a very vocal opponent of slavery.

What's next from you guys? Darwin causes cancer and tooth decay?

520 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 31, 2009 10:11:19am

Here's some more about Jaffa's ignorant comments on Darwin:

Speaking of Stephens's belief that science demonstrated blacks to be inferior, Jaffa writes: "One can only surmise that Darwin's Origin of Species, published in 1859, may have been on his mind. Yet there is nothing in that work bearing directly on the question of Negro equality" (p. 224). Mr. Jaffa rather understates the case. Darwin's book is not about human evolution at all. But even if one takes what he says at face value, Jaffa's insouciance is nothing short of breathtaking. What he in essence says is: "Here is my surmise; the evidence contradicts it."

521 rightthinking  Sat, Jan 31, 2009 11:39:03am

Dear Charles,
I enjoy pretty much everything you write and Little Green Footballs is so good for just about everything it stands for. But your position on ID is so hostile that it is reminiscent of Bush Derangement Syndrome. I wish you could moderate your approach. But I doubt you can. To me it seems that the intensity of your approach shows it to have some deep (even pathological) roots which cause you to view ID and any who would even countenance such an idea as truly depraved and unworthy of basic respect. I see it as a flaw in you but I love you anyway and will simply enjoy the good parts of what you write and think.
Like Daddy said: "Chew the meat and spit out the bones."

522 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 31, 2009 11:52:42am

re: #521 rightthinking

Dear Charles,
I enjoy pretty much everything you write and Little Green Footballs is so good for just about everything it stands for. But your position on ID is so hostile that it is reminiscent of Bush Derangement Syndrome. I wish you could moderate your approach. But I doubt you can. To me it seems that the intensity of your approach shows it to have some deep (even pathological) roots which cause you to view ID and any who would even countenance such an idea as truly depraved and unworthy of basic respect. I see it as a flaw in you but I love you anyway and will simply enjoy the good parts of what you write and think.
Like Daddy said: "Chew the meat and spit out the bones."

If it's "pathological" to be strongly opposed to pseudo-science and dishonest creationism, go ahead and call me crazy.

523 Salamantis  Sat, Jan 31, 2009 12:13:48pm

re: #521 rightthinking

Dear Charles,
I enjoy pretty much everything you write and Little Green Footballs is so good for just about everything it stands for. But your position on ID is so hostile that it is reminiscent of Bush Derangement Syndrome. I wish you could moderate your approach. But I doubt you can. To me it seems that the intensity of your approach shows it to have some deep (even pathological) roots which cause you to view ID and any who would even countenance such an idea as truly depraved and unworthy of basic respect. I see it as a flaw in you but I love you anyway and will simply enjoy the good parts of what you write and think.
Like Daddy said: "Chew the meat and spit out the bones."

ID is a PR propaganda camo term for creationism invented by the Disco Institute after the Aguilar ruling forbidding the teaching of creationist religious dogmas in high school science class, and it was correctly seen as such by Judge Jones in his Dover decision (cdesign proponentists, anyone?). The Disco Institute are relentlessly endeavoring to breach church-state separation by pushing the indoctrination of everyone's kids int their pet sectarian religious dogmas in public high school science class, for the purpose of (in the minds of their Dominionist and Christian reconstructionist members and contributers) toppling the US constitution and relacing it with their vicious, brutal, cruel and savage version of Biblical law by dint of the votes of these brainwashed youth once they reach age 18. This surreptitious plot, and the strategy by which they plan to achieve it, is clearly laid out in their Wedge Document, which was leaked against their will.

524 Salamantis  Sat, Jan 31, 2009 12:18:01pm

re: #518 Grimace

For a primer on Darwinian evolution and its role in political thought and action, I recommend Harry V. Jaffa's A New Birth of Freedom: Abraham Lincoln and the Coming of the Civil War. You might find it particularly interesting Charles.

You might wanna check out the following book:

Darwin's Sacred Cause: How a Hatred of Slavery Shaped Darwin's Views on Human Evolution
by Adrian Desmond, James Moore
[Link: www.amazon.com...]

Editorial Reviews and Author Information:

"Desmond and Moore’s fascinating new look at Darwin forces us to revise and expand the way we look at this revolutionary figure, and to see him wrestling with moral as well as scientific questions. And it is a reminder of just how much the issue of slavery loomed over everything in the nineteenth century, including even fields that were apparently far distant." —Adam Hochschild, author of King Leopold’s Ghost and Bury the Chains

"This exciting book is sure to create a stir. Already widely admired for their pathbreaking biography of Charles Darwin, Desmond and Moore here give an entirely new interpretation of Darwin’s views on humankind, bringing together scholarship and sparkling narrative pace to explore theories of ape ancestry and racial origins in the Victorian period. Darwin’s part in making the modern world will never be the same again!" —Janet Browne, Aramont Professor of the History of Science, Harvard University, and author of Charles Darwin: Voyaging

An astonishing new portrait of a scientific icon

In this remarkable book, Adrian Desmond and James Moore restore the missing moral core of Darwin’s evolutionary universe, providing a completely new account of how he came to his shattering theories about human origins.

There has always been a mystery surrounding Darwin: How did this quiet, respectable gentleman, a pillar of his parish, come to embrace one of the most radical ideas in the history of human thought? It’s difficult to overstate just what Darwin was risking in publishing his theory of evolution. So it must have been something very powerful—a moral fire, as Desmond and Moore put it—that propelled him. And that moral fire, they argue, was a passionate hatred of slavery.

To make their case, they draw on a wealth of fresh manuscripts, unpublished family correspondence, notebooks, diaries, and even ships’ logs. They show how Darwin’s abolitionism had deep roots in his mother’s family and was reinforced by his voyage on the Beagle as well as by events in America—from the rise of scientific racism at Harvard through the dark days of the Civil War.

Leading apologists for slavery in Darwin’s time argued that blacks and whites had originated as separate species, with whites created superior. Darwin abhorred such "arrogance." He believed that, far from being separate species, the races belonged to the same human family. Slavery was therefore a "sin," and abolishing it became Darwin’s "sacred cause." His theory of evolution gave all the races—blacks and whites, animals and plants—an ancient common ancestor and freed them from creationist shackles. Evolution meant emancipation.

In this rich and illuminating work, Desmond and Moore recover Darwin’s lost humanitarianism. They argue that only by acknowledging Darwin’s Christian abolitionist heritage can we fully understand the development of his groundbreaking ideas. Compulsively readable and utterly persuasive, Darwin’s Sacred Cause will revolutionize our view of the great naturalist.

to be continued...

525 Salamantis  Sat, Jan 31, 2009 12:18:49pm

continued...

Adrian Desmond and James Moore’s Darwin (1991) won the James Tait Black Prize, the Comisso Prize for biography in Italy, the Watson Davis Prize of the History of Science Society, and the Dingle Prize of the British Society for the History of Science. It was short-listed for the Rhône-Poulenc Prize and has been widely translated.

Adrian Desmond has written seven other books on evolution and Victorian science, including an acclaimed biography, Huxley. An Honorary Research Fellow in the biology department at University College London, he is editing (with Angela Darwin) The T. H. Huxley Family Correspondence.

James Moore’s books include The Post-Darwinian Controversies and The Darwin Legend. He has taught at Harvard, Notre Dame, and McMaster University, and is professor of the History of Science at the Open University. He is currently researching the life of Alfred Russel Wallace.

526 S'latch  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:00:04am

I think there were many factors which led to Hitler. I am sure a list could be compiled if no one has done it yet. And if by "Hitler" you mean the Holocaust of the Jews, hundreds of years of Christian Antisemitism belongs on the list.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
4 weeks ago
Views: 461 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1