Jump to bottom

696 comments
1 Pianobuff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:30:48am

She's a LaRouchian IIRC.

2 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:31:06am

Pwnded by Barney Frank. That's just sad.

3 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:32:43am

I have to applaud Frank's response. These idiots do not deserve the exposure they are getting.

4 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:32:47am

re: #2 Killgore Trout

Pwnded by Barney Frank. That's just sad.

what a country eh?

5 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:32:48am

He disrupted his own meeting and allowed one of his delegates to do the same!

But, disruption is okay for certain people.

Youtube Video
7 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:34:03am

... and the pig loves it.

8 Golem Akbar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:34:04am

I have to agree with Bawny. The signs of Hitler = Obama are not just stupid, but self-defeating.

9 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:34:11am

re: #6 Killgore Trout

Was Barney Frank’s ‘Nazi’ Questioner a LaRouche Cultist? [UPDATE: Confirmed]

ugh.

Good catch.

10 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:34:15am

re: #1 Pianobuff

She's a LaRouchian IIRC.

LaRouch is antisemitic, so she probably doesn't have such great feelings towards Jews, either. Maybe she thinks she's saying something nice about Obama?
I don't think so, but she probably doesn't think Hitler was as bad as I think.

11 cronus  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:34:27am

I officially nominate Godwin's Law as the Fifth Law of Thermodynamics. Honestly, it's as empirically proven as any other law in nature.

12 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:34:49am
Frank: 'Like Arguing with a Dining Room Table'

Frank's furniture metaphor is a sekrit code demonstrating that's he's a pawn of the new Ottoman Empire!

13 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:35:06am

For those who missed this one last night...
Activist Who Staged Gun Interview At Obama Event Was Prominent Defender Of '90s Militia


...in an interview today with TPMmuckraker, Hancock said he still believes the Viper Militia case was "manufactured" by the same government that manufactured Waco and lied to its people about 9/11.

The federal government initially accused the Arizona Viper Militia of plotting to blow up federal buildings, which the twelve-member group cased on videotape.

In July 1996, after a grand jury indicted the suspects, federal agents "seized about 90 high-powered rifles and hundreds of pounds of a bomb-making compound from the shabby bungalow of a man whom officials identified as the ordnance specialist of a local paramilitary group," the New York Times reported at the time.

14 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:35:21am

I agree with Frank for once- it is a testament to the First Amendment that morons can speak so freely as that woman.

15 Gus  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:35:39am

I'd have to agree with Barney Frank. Although, not to quibble, I've encountered a few dining room tables that were better conversationalists. The La Rouche genius is probably clueless to the fact that Frank is Jewish and she's pulling a Godwin.

16 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:36:08am

I see that some right wing blogs are actually saying she is a "Lyndon LaRouche Democrat," which verges on an outright lie.

LaRouchians are NOT Democrats. They're not really Republicans either, but in this issue they are attaching themselves to the Republicans, because the crazy is so strong they're attracted like moths to a flame.

17 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:36:20am

I have to hand it to Rep. Frank - the second time I've had to do so. He handled this right, just as he did with Eason Jordan's lies and smears of US troops.

18 Occasional Reader  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:36:50am

Later.

19 Desert Dog  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:36:56am

Holding up a sign comparing Obama to Hitler is just plain stupid. Barney Frank was correct by pointing that out. But, his condemnation smacks of hypocrisy. I cannot recall one instance where Barney Frank admonished anyone for doing the same to George Bush. I guess it is only bad in Franks world when it's done to someone on his side? It is wrong in both cases. So, let's get both sides to stop this incredibly idiotic practice.

20 ckb  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:37:18am

Despite her being a nutty LaRouche supporter, Frank should have reponded in a civil manner and not with an ad-hominem attack.

I hope you rethink your comment Charles - and I hope you would have handled the same question in a professional manner were you in the same position.

She is one of his constituents, and insulting anyone is never the right answer. This is raising the level of the debate? I expected more from Frank, but he continually disappoints. So much for being "smart".

21 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:37:40am

re: #19 Desert Dog

Holding up a sign comparing Obama to Hitler is just plain stupid. Barney Frank was correct by pointing that out. But, his condemnation smacks of hypocrisy. I cannot recall one instance where Barney Frank admonished anyone for doing the same to George Bush. I guess it is only bad in Franks world when it's done to someone on his side? It is wrong in both cases. So, let's get both sides to stop this incredibly idiotic practice.

Can you point out an instance when Frank was confronted or asked about Bush signs?

22 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:38:18am

re: #20 ckb

Despite her being a nutty LaRouche supporter, Frank should have reponded in a civil manner and not with an ad-hominem attack.

I think he got down into the mud with her.

23 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:38:36am

Laundry calls.

24 Pianobuff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:38:41am

re: #6 Killgore Trout

Was Barney Frank’s ‘Nazi’ Questioner a LaRouche Cultist? [UPDATE: Confirmed]

ugh.

Here's video that confirms the transcript in your link.

Yup. The woman is most definitely a LaRouchian. I hate to say it, but every time one of these things comes out, I get a little short of breath.

I'm not glad that any of this is happening, and obviously we have problems on both sides of the aisle.

25 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:39:10am

re: #20 ckb

Entertaining loons and their crazy questions is a waste of time. There's just no point in it.

26 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:39:13am

re: #22 MandyManners

I think he got down into the mud with her.

This. Really, why legitimize an idiot by giving them the time of day? Just tear them a new one and then be done with it.

27 Pianobuff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:39:37am

re: #16 Charles

I see that some right wing blogs are actually saying she is a "Lyndon LaRouche Democrat," which verges on an outright lie.

LaRouchians are NOT Democrats. They're not really Republicans either, but in this issue they are attaching themselves to the Republicans, because the crazy is so strong they're attracted like moths to a flame.

LaRouche is a Democrat.

28 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:39:54am

re: #20 ckb

She is one of his constituents,...

what are the odds that she's from his district and is registered to vote?

just sayin'

29 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:40:28am

re: #27 Pianobuff

LaRouche is a Democrat.

Like Ron Paul is a Republican.

30 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:40:33am

re: #20 ckb

There comes a point in a debate where you realize the person you're dealing with is not of sound mind. Calling healthcare reform "nazi" would be a pretty strong indicator of this, and that's the point the conversation is over. There is no getting through to people like that- they dismiss themselves with their rhetoric.

31 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:40:36am

re: #27 Pianobuff

LaRouche may vote Democratic, but stupid crosses the aisle.

32 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:40:53am

re: #27 Pianobuff

LaRouche is a Democrat.

And they are very proud to have him in their big tent.
/

33 Gus  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:41:06am

re: #28 itellu3times

what are the odds that she's from his district and is registered to vote?

just sayin'

You read my mind. Probably very low odds.

34 Pianobuff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:41:09am

re: #29 Coracle

Like Ron Paul is a Republican.

Actually you're right, if one applies the no True Scotsman logic.

35 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:41:27am

re: #27 Pianobuff

LaRouche is a Democrat.

He is not.

36 Desert Dog  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:41:43am

re: #16 Charles

I see that some right wing blogs are actually saying she is a "Lyndon LaRouche Democrat," which verges on an outright lie.

LaRouchians are NOT Democrats. They're not really Republicans either, but in this issue they are attaching themselves to the Republicans, because the crazy is so strong they're attracted like moths to a flame.

He has never been a member of the Republican Party, has he? He was a member of Democrat Party for many years. But, I would say that his "movement" cannot be classified as either.

37 midwestgak  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:43:22am

Creator of "60 Minutes" dies of pancreatic cancer. RIP Don Hewitt.

38 Ford_Prefect  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:43:26am

Alright, I gotta go do some work. It was fun to be able to stop in for a bit. Hopefully I will see you all again soon.

Later Lizards!

39 Pianobuff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:43:33am

re: #35 Charles

He is not.

He has ran for the nomination 7 times as a Democrat.

40 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:43:58am

re: #36 Desert Dog

He has never been a member of the Republican Party, has he? He was a member of Democrat Party for many years. But, I would say that his "movement" cannot be classified as either.

LaRouche is a nutjob, and trying to make him into a Democrat is simply dishonest no matter what his history.

41 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:44:04am

re: #36 Desert Dog

Larouche, "movement", ... insert joke here ...

42 Diamond Bullet  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:44:07am

Wait, has there been a rash of dining room table arguing that I'm not aware of? Is this one of those inscrutable New England fads, like drinking Moxie, or crushing all inquiries into Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and then blaming Bush for the housing meltdown? Barney Frank, you zany trendsetter!

43 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:45:00am

re: #35 Charles

He is not.

re: #35 Charles

He is not.

Wiki has two parties listed.

Born Lyndon Hermyle LaRouche, Jr.
September 8, 1922 (age 86)
Rochester, New Hampshire, United States
Occupation Activist
Political party U.S. Labor Party, Democratic
Spouse(s) Helga Zepp
Parents Jessie Lenore Weir (1893–1978)
Lyndon Hermyle LaRouche, Sr. (1896–1983)

44 Desert Dog  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:45:13am

re: #21 Coracle

Can you point out an instance when Frank was confronted or asked about Bush signs?

Ahh, so he needs to see it before he can condemn it? I am sure Rep. Frank saw the millions of signs propped up by anti-war protesters. Or, are you telling me he did not?

45 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:45:54am

If you describe Lyndon LaRouche as a "Democrat," you're deliberately misleading people for partisan reasons.

46 brent  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:46:20am

Even a broken clock is right 2x a day... He handles everyone that dares question him with that kind of disdain. Glad he smacked down a kook, but that raises my opinion of that cat not at all.

47 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:46:24am

Some background on Lyndon LaRouche:

LaRouche entered the primary elections for the Democratic Party's nomination in 2004. He was not one of the major candidates invited to the primary-season debates, although he did participate in some alternative forums for minor candidates. He ran even though his home state of Virginia is one of a handful of states which still has lifetime denial of the vote to ex-felons, which can be overturned only on appeal to the governor. (Neither the Constitution nor Federal statute law requires Presidents to be registered voters.) The Democratic Party did not consider his candidacy to be legitimate and ruled him ineligible to win delegates. He gained negligible electoral support.

In its 2004 assessment of presidential candidates, the National Right to Life Committee gave LaRouche a grade of 75% and declared that he is "pro-life in every way (against euthanasia, capital punishment, etc)."[citation needed]

LaRouche was endorsed by at least two Democratic state representatives in 2004, Erik Fleming of Mississippi and Harold James of Pennsylvania, though Fleming later expressed regret at becoming involved, calling that endorsement "the worst mistake of all."

LaRouche was present in Boston during the 2004 Democratic National Convention but did not attend the convention itself. He held a press conference in which he declared his support for John Kerry and pledged to mobilize his organization to help defeat George W. Bush in the November presidential election. He also waged a campaign, begun in October 2002, to have Dick Cheney resign or be dropped from the Republican ticket.[124]

In 2005 LaRouche campaigned against the privatization of Social Security, asserting that this was an issue that could successfully mobilize the population against the policies of the Bush administration.[125] LaRouche drafted legislation in 2006 that would rescue the failing U.S. auto industry by having the federal government intervene to retool it for the purpose of building machinery for infrastructure development. This initiative was unsuccessful.[126] In August 2007, LaRouche authored the "Homeowner and Banks Protection Act of 2007", designed to freeze mortgage rates, halt foreclosures, and prevent banks from closing their doors due to insolvency. His organization and particularly his youth movement began lobbying both the congress and also state and local governments for the passage of this legislation, in what they characterize as an unsuccessful attempt to prevent the subprime mortgage crisis.[127]

48 Pianobuff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:46:43am

re: #45 Charles

If you describe Lyndon LaRouche as a "Democrat," you're deliberately misleading people for partisan reasons.


That's his description.

49 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:46:49am

LaRouche and Ron Paul are antisemitic, but I wouldn't call them Nazis.
Ahmadinejad, however, I might, as he does appear to want to kill all the Jews.

50 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:47:12am

"Larouche? I thought you were dead!"
-Escape from... uh... whatever...

51 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:47:39am

re: #48 Pianobuff

That's his description.

Okay, let's just assume all this is true for the moment. Exactly why does his political affiliation matter? As I mentioned before, stupid has no political party.

52 Gus  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:48:13am

Lyndon LaRouche U.S. Presidential campaigns

Since 1979, LaRouche and his supporters have also conducted some of their activities within framework of the Democratic Party (despite the strong objections of some Democratic Party officials and organizers who regard these activities as infiltration). In 1979, Larouche formed a Political Action Committee called the National Democratic Policy Committee (NDPC). LaRouche has run for the Democratic nomination for President of the United States seven times, beginning in 1980. His current Political Action Committee is called "LaRouche PAC."

The Democratic National Committee asserted that LaRouche is not a Democrat, but the U.S. electoral system made it impossible for the party to prevent LaRouche followers entering Democratic primaries. LaRouche himself polled negligible vote totals, but continued to promote himself as a serious political candidate, a claim which was sometimes accepted by elements of the media and some political figures. In 1999, however, a court ruled that the Democratic National Committee had the right to keep LaRouche from electing delegates to the Democratic National Convention, based on a party requirement that a Democratic nominee must be a registered voter. LaRouche, as a convicted felon, is not eligible to be a registered voter in the state of Virginia, where he lives. (see United States v. LaRouche)

53 Pianobuff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:48:22am

re: #51 thedopefishlives

Okay, let's just assume all this is true for the moment. Exactly why does his political affiliation matter? As I mentioned before, stupid has no political party.

I agree with you. Now could you just convince the MSM?

54 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:48:29am

re: #44 Desert Dog

Ahh, so he needs to see it before he can condemn it? I am sure Rep. Frank saw the millions of signs propped up by anti-war protesters. Or, are you telling me he did not?

Obama/Hitler signs have been appearing for quite some time now. I haven't heard Frank say anything about them until now does that mean he tacitly supported it? He spoke when he was directly confronted with the bullshit. Show me he was silent or supportive in a direct confrontation with the Bush stuff.

55 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:48:32am

Look - I've been following LaRouche's twisted career for years. He is NOT a Democrat or a Republican -- he runs a weird contrarian cult that is basically opposed to everything. The fact that he ran as a Democrat means nothing; he chose that party affiliation purely out of necessity.

When Al Gore ran for President, they compared HIM to Hitler. LaRouche is no Democrat.

56 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:48:43am

re: #48 Pianobuff

That's his description.

It is not.

57 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:48:55am

re: #48 Pianobuff

That's his description.

And there are more LaRouche democrats...

"LaRouche Democrat Kerry Lowry won the Aug. 6 Democratic primary for the Michigan House of Representatives' 19th District, with 61.3% of the vote in a two-way race."

[Link: www.larouchepub.com...]

58 NukeAtomrod  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:49:15am

re: #16 Charles

I see that some right wing blogs are actually saying she is a "Lyndon LaRouche Democrat," which verges on an outright lie.

LaRouchians are NOT Democrats. They're not really Republicans either, but in this issue they are attaching themselves to the Republicans, because the crazy is so strong they're attracted like moths to a flame.

The LaRouchians aren't being attracted to the craziness, they - along with the Paulians - are bringing it. The Obama - Hitler signs were created by LarouchePAC. The gun-toters are Paulians that even the NRA doesn't want to be associated with.

The vast majority of the people showing up at the town halls are concerned, responsible and somewhat angry citizens. Mostly Republican, but some are moderate Democrats. And this is the right venue for them to speak their minds. It's democracy in action. Tarring them all with the crazy-brush is unfair and the congresspeople doing it will pay a price at the next election. The voters will remember it when they've been personally insulted.

59 Pianobuff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:49:25am

re: #56 Charles

It is not.

LaRouche isn't a self-described Democrat?

60 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:49:52am

re: #59 Pianobuff

LaRouche isn't a self-described Democrat?

He's an opportunist.

61 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:50:10am

His website is creepy.

LaRouche Political Action Committee

62 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:50:17am

So what? They are adding a label. Whatever label they can find that might stick.

Trying to add any legitimacy to teh kookiness.

63 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:50:39am

Zombie Woof!

[Link: freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com...]

While a zombie attack is one of the least likely ways the world could end, four Canadian mathematicians/graduate students did a mathematical analysis of a hypothetical zombie outbreak to determine the likelihood of human eradication, should such an attack ever occur. According to their model, “a zombie outbreak is likely to lead to the collapse of civilization, unless it is dealt with quickly. While aggressive quarantine may contain the epidemic, or a cure may lead to coexistence of humans and zombies, the most effective way to contain the rise of the undead is to hit hard and hit often.”

[Link: www.cbc.ca...]

...
As the researchers write in the paper, published in the journal Infectious Disease Modelling Research Progress, "the most effective way to contain the rise of the undead is to hit hard and hit often."

[Link: blogs.wsj.com...]

[Link: www.npr.org...]

64 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:51:02am

re: #35 Charles

He is not.

Lyndon LaRouche from Wiki.

A lot of crazy on there. LaRouche has participated in several Democratic presidential primaries and was also a member of the US Labor Party at one time. He seems to be anti-administration, having pushed for Cheney's resignation and now claiming that the Obama Administration is fascist.

65 BlueCanuck  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:51:23am

re: #50 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Larouche? I thought you were dead!"
-Escape from... uh... whatever...

Bedlam?

66 freedombilly  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:51:24am

It is hard to give an upding to a thread praising Barney Frank but I've got to call a spade a spade. Her face is priceless when he asks her what planet she spends most of her time.

Way to go Barney. I feel dirty typing that and must go shower now.

67 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:52:07am

And more on this thread topic...

CNN's Larry King showed the above video of Barney Frank laying the smack down on a woman at a townhall meeting who compared Obama to Hitler. CNN left out the fact that this woman is a Lyndon LaRouche Democrat.

In the full video (via Allahpundit), the woman says, "This policy is already on the way out. It already has been defeated by LaRouche." She also underscores her crazy LaRouchite beliefs by claiming that the U.S. has "30% real unemployment". No one disputes that LaRouchites are on the fringe -- but it's indisputable that they are fringe Democrats. They oppose Obamacare because they want a single-payer plan.

[Link: www.weeklystandard.com...]

68 Desert Dog  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:52:20am

re: #40 Charles

LaRouche is a nutjob, and trying to make him into a Democrat is simply dishonest no matter what his history.

I agree 100% he is a nutjob and so are his weirdo followers. But, he was a member of the Democrat Party. And, he ran in several elections as a Democrat. And, he got quite a few votes in some primary elections. He obliviously used the party affiliation as a mechanism to gain attention, as he holds beliefs nowhere near the mainstream Democrat Party. He was never a member of the Republican Party. His views on the world took a little from each side, but mostly he is a crazy SOB that wanted a stage for his odd view of the world. I object to your assumption that he and his crazy followers are now somehow representative of the Republican Party. They are not.

69 abbyadams  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:52:52am

I am tired of the the misinformation, the misdirection, and the plain dumb. Anyone who has decided to not suffer these fools earns a "win." Today, Barney Frank gets the win.

70 Spenser (with an S)  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:53:15am

He is a nutter and I don't think anyone here is defending a thing he has said. Some are a little defensive, perhaps since we "own" enough crazy and don't want to borrow any more if they don't vote or think like us.

71 shiplord kirel  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:53:21am

Not my favorite either, but I've always respected Barney Frank for publicly calling out CNN president Eason Jordan when the latter accused US troops of targeting journalists on purpose in Iraq. The incident happened at the uber-elitist World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland in 2005, where Jordan apparently thought he had a safe audience. Jordan resigned shortly afterward.

72 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:53:44am

OK, I won't argue. If you want to pretend he's a Democrat, and that proves the Democrats are responsible for all the town hall disruptions, have fun.

73 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:53:52am

Question. What is Ron Paul. Republican?

74 Lee Coller  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:53:53am

re: #68 Desert Dog

I object to your assumption that he and his crazy followers are now somehow representative of the Republican Party. They are not.

Where did Charles say that?

75 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:54:35am

I commented about this on the ONT (re: #818 pre-Boomer Marine brat) agreeing with Frank. Part of that is copied below.

Mr. Frank, how about zombie's and Ringo's photos? Have you ever attended a meeting where posters comparing Bush to Hitler were displayed? If so, did you say anything about THOSE posters? If so, what was it?

In my #877 on that thread, I added:

Mr. Frank, did you apply the words vile, comtemptible and nonsense to the poster/s depicting Bush as Hitler, or did you use other terminology?

IMHO, these are pertinant questions.

76 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:55:03am

re: #68 Desert Dog

Charles never said they had anything to do with Republicans, either. Lyndon LaRouche and his idiots are their own special brand of stupid, and LaRouche himself chose the Democratic label as a matter of expediency - he knew that the Republican Party of the time wouldn't even give him the time of day. Does that make him a real Democrat or just some nutter who happens to have a measure of political savvy?

77 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:56:00am

re: #72 Charles

OK, I won't argue. If you want to pretend he's a Democrat, and that proves the Democrats are responsible for all the town hall disruptions, have fun.

Who said the Democrats are responsible for ALL the town hall disruptions?

(Am I being pedantic again?)

78 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:56:09am

re: #76 thedopefishlives

Charles never said they had anything to do with Republicans, either.

I said very explicitly that he is neither a Democrat nor a Republican.

79 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:56:24am

re: #77 Walter L. Newton

Who said the Democrats are responsible for ALL the town hall disruptions?

(Am I being pedantic again?)

Yes.

80 theheat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:56:24am

re: #76 thedopefishlives

That's because the likes of Ron Paul are taking up valuable floor space in the Republican big tent. Just no room left for the likes of LaRouche at the moment.

81 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:56:32am

re: #75 pre-Boomer Marine brat

My answer is #54

82 Pianobuff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:56:40am

So people understand, the reason I even make an hay out of this with LaRouche is, while the media vocalizes every R-affiliated wart and blemish, they are often affiliation-tacit when the R label can't be stuck to this behavior.

By not clarifying, I think a lot of people are left with the impression that the many incidents involving the LaRouchians are naturally perpetrated by Republican loons. I'm not saying that R's don't have their issues either.

I think LaRouche is a nutjob, no doubt. I don't see him being in the mainstream of Democrat though by any means.

The omissions in media reporting are glaring to me, which is why I point this out.

83 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:56:46am

OH DEAR GOD IN HEAVEN! WE'RE FIGHTING ABOUT LAROUCHE?

Sheesh.

84 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:56:49am

re: #20 ckb

Despite her being a nutty LaRouche supporter, Frank should have reponded in a civil manner and not with an ad-hominem attack.

I hope you rethink your comment Charles - and I hope you would have handled the same question in a professional manner were you in the same position.

She is one of his constituents, and insulting anyone is never the right answer. This is raising the level of the debate? I expected more from Frank, but he continually disappoints. So much for being "smart".

Strictly speaking, you are correct, that the proper response is to criticize the claim and not the speaker, and yes it is a sign of the likes of Barney Frank to fall off polite forms, ... but debates are not necessarily won by the most polite or honest or truthful, or why would Barney Frank be in office in the first place?

85 abbyadams  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:57:10am

re: #30 Sharmuta

I've always thought that once you get to the "Nazi" argument, that you pretty much are accepting defeat.

86 Spenser (with an S)  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:57:11am

re: #67 Walter L. Newton

the U.S. has "30% real unemployment"

I don't know that this is so crazy. My state of MI has close to 30% unofficial unemployment (those whose benefits have run out, those working 20hrs/wk when they want 40, small businesses not staying busy, those who've given up). It's an actual number they report on.

87 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:58:05am

re: #79 Charles

Yes.

Ok. So, who said the Democrats are responsible for ALL the town hall disruptions?

88 jcm  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:58:22am

Background, LaRouche.

LaRouche himself has been a candidate for U.S. president eight times, standing in every presidential election from 1976 to 2004. The first was with his own party, the U.S. Labor Party. In the next seven campaigns he campaigned for the Democratic Party nomination. In support of those efforts he has created campaign committees and a PAC, and has attempted to gain entrance to caucuses, debates, and conventions for himself and supporters. He was a successful fundraiser in 2004 by some measures, and received federal matching funds.

[]In 1996, the candidacy of Lyndon LaRouche was opposed by Donald Fowler on behalf of the Democratic National Committee, arguing that he was "not a bona fide Democrat."[19]

89 Desert Dog  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:58:47am

re: #54 Coracle

Obama/Hitler signs have been appearing for quite some time now. I haven't heard Frank say anything about them until now does that mean he tacitly supported it? He spoke when he was directly confronted with the bullshit. Show me he was silent or supportive in a direct confrontation with the Bush stuff.

Ok, you keep on believing that. I heard not one peep from ANY Democrat about the signs that compared Bush to Hitler. I cannot recall one instance of that. So, now that a few idiots on the right are doing it...suddenly, it's a big deal?

It is a big deal, it's taking a figure in history that stands for antisemitism and genocide and pure evil on a massive scale. The left has been using the "Nazi" tag for Republicans for YEARS and that was all fine and dandy. Now, it's not? It should not have been then, nor should it be now.

90 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:59:00am

re: #86 Spenser (with an S)

I don't know that this is so crazy. My state of MI has close to 30% unofficial unemployment (those whose benefits have run out, those working 20hrs/wk when they want 40, small businesses not staying busy, those who've given up). It's an actual number they report on.

I was simply posting a clip from the article. If you are asking me, I don't know.

91 Silvergirl  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:59:09am

Looking for the good to come out of all this Nazis in the News crap of late, I see something. Since the MSM is actually paying attention this time (unlike when the BusHitler rabble were on the street) the spotlight is on the stupidity. Zombie and Ringo and others are doing some reporting showing that this nonsense was prevalent on the Left. If their work gets some exposure, perhaps eyes will be opened that egregious behavior happens Right and Left, and the idea will begin to form that it doesn't help anything to act like idiots.

92 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:59:14am

re: #72 Charles

OK, I won't argue. If you want to pretend he's a Democrat, and that proves the Democrats are responsible for all the town hall disruptions, have fun.

Well, he has been affiliated with both the Democrats and the US Labor Party in the past. That is not pretend, that is history. However, it does not mean that the modern LaRoucheians are Democrats (or Republicans for that matter). Given LaRouche's history, he seems to be anti-this and anti-that, and if anything his cult is more anti-current administration than anything else. During the Bush years, some on the far left attached themsleves to his desire to have Cheney resign. Currently, those on the right are attaching themselves to him because he is anti-Obama. It's a current moronic convergence.

93 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:59:22am

re: #88 jcm

Background, LaRouche.


[]In 1996, the candidacy of Lyndon LaRouche was opposed by Donald Fowler on behalf of the Democratic National Committee, arguing that he was "not a bona fide Democrat."[19]

But he has since had botox, so now he is.
/

94 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:59:40am

re: #85 abbyadams

I've always thought that once you get to the "Nazi" argument, that you pretty much are accepting defeat.

I'm personally not going to feel bad for reducing the quality of my argument when presented with such a fallacy as "NAZI!1!"

95 Randall Gross  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:00:03am

re: #13 Killgore Trout

For those who missed this one last night...
Activist Who Staged Gun Interview At Obama Event Was Prominent Defender Of '90s Militia

Yet we see links on his site to Stochowiak's (sp?) where there are .pdf's on how to make bombs...

Interesting that he's the one who designed the Luap NOr Logo.

96 Gus  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:00:21am

re: #20 ckb

You expected Barney Frank to be civil with an out of breath LaRouche loon making more of a statement rather than asking a question while holding up a picture of President Obama with a Hitler mustache painted on it?

97 shiplord kirel  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:00:34am

Like any other foaming at the mouth nutcase, Larouche can declare any party affiliation he likes and the chosen party has little control over it.
Consider a different case: Hate-freak Fred Phelps was a registered Democrat for many years, ran for office as one, and even hosted a fund-raiser for Al Gore in 1992 (photos of the two together are an endless delight to Gore-bashers). Nobody would say that Phelps is representative of the Democratic Party today, however.

98 SteveC  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:00:38am

re: #73 Walter L. Newton

Question. What is Ron Paul. Republican?

Ron Paul is a whooole 'nuther bag of fruit and nuts, man!

99 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:00:59am

re: #81 Coracle

My answer is #54

From your #54: "Show me he was silent or supportive in a direct confrontation with the Bush stuff."

That was, from a different angle, the point of my rhetorical questions. I want evidence.

I'm not saying I think he would have approved of them. I'm wondering if his reaction might have been different.

100 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:01:01am

re: #87 Walter L. Newton

Ok. So, who said the Democrats are responsible for ALL the town hall disruptions?

More pedantry. If you're trying to get me irritated, keep it up.

101 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:01:23am

re: #98 SteveC

Ron Paul is a whooole 'nuther bag of fruit and nuts, man!

I wanted to know. What is Ron Paul. Republican?

102 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:01:25am

re: #95 Thanos

I looked into the Viper Militia earlier this morning. Nasty folks.

103 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:01:59am

LaRouche has been associated with several different parties over the years:

Socialist Workers Party
Revolutionary Tendency (Trotskyite)
Spartacist League
Committee for Independent Political Action
Maoist Progressive Labor Party
Students for a Democratic Society
National Caucus of Labor Committees
U.S. Labor Party

He registered as a Democratic Party (despite the disapproval of the DNC)

In the 1996 Democratic presidential primaries, LaRouche received enough votes in Louisiana and Virginia to get one delegate from each state. However, the Democratic Party refused to grant any delegates to LaRouche, asserting that he is a convicted felon with political beliefs that are "explicitly racist and anti-Semitic,"

And this:

The Heritage Foundation released a report, which stated that despite what they describe as LaRouche's appearance as a right-wing anticommunist, he takes political stands, "which in the end advance Soviet foreign policy goals." Longtime LaRouche critic Daniel O. Graham, former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, has stated that he believes LaRouche is an "unrepentant Marxist-Leninist" who pretended to be right-wing in order "to suck conservatives into giving him money."

La Rouche is no Democrat, philosophically speaking.

104 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:02:21am
105 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:02:36am

re: #2 Killgore Trout

Pwnded by Barney Frank. That's just sad.

Good Morning Lizards! It's officially ALLERGY season in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland.

Kilgore's post #2 was so appropriate, I had to quote it.

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

106 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:02:45am

re: #100 Charles

More pedantry. If you're trying to get me irritated, keep it up.

Nope, sorry Charles.

107 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:03:09am

re: #103 Kenneth

LaRouche has been associated with several different parties over the years:

Socialist Workers Party
Revolutionary Tendency (Trotskyite)
Spartacist League
Committee for Independent Political Action
Maoist Progressive Labor Party
Students for a Democratic Society
National Caucus of Labor Committees
U.S. Labor Party

He registered as a Democratic Party (despite the disapproval of the DNC)

La Rouche is no Democrat, philosophically speaking.

That's right -- he's no Democrat. It's simply dishonest to try to paint him as one.

108 jcm  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:03:33am

re: #103 Kenneth

LaRouche has been associated with several different parties over the years:

Socialist Workers Party
Revolutionary Tendency (Trotskyite)
Spartacist League
Committee for Independent Political Action
Maoist Progressive Labor Party
Students for a Democratic Society
National Caucus of Labor Committees
U.S. Labor Party

He registered as a Democratic Party (despite the disapproval of the DNC)

La Rouche is no Democrat, philosophically speaking.

Nut Bar, pure nut bar.

109 Gus  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:03:34am

re: #102 Killgore Trout

I looked into the Viper Militia earlier this morning. Nasty folks.

(OT)

BTW, found that Chris B. is a Christopher Broughton early this morning. See:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

and

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

110 Eowyn2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:03:36am

re: #16 Charles

I see that some right wing blogs are actually saying she is a "Lyndon LaRouche Democrat," which verges on an outright lie.

LaRouchians are NOT Democrats. They're not really Republicans either, but in this issue they are attaching themselves to the Republicans, because the crazy is so strong they're attracted like moths to a flame.

Unless they've changed their whole approach, LaRouchians are neither Dem nor Rep. They talk about no gvmt interference but their old pamphlets decry differently. I'm guessing they are like ANSWER in that they haven't changed their literature in 40 years.

111 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:03:40am

I'm going to have to start shopping at Barney's.

112 SteveC  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:03:45am

He registered as a Democratic Party (despite the disapproval of the DNC)

In the 1996 Democratic presidential primaries, LaRouche received enough votes in Louisiana and Virginia to get one delegate from each state. However, the Democratic Party refused to grant any delegates to LaRouche, asserting that he is a convicted felon with political beliefs that are "explicitly racist and anti-Semitic,"

Wow. Dems actually had some class back in the day.

113 Randall Gross  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:04:07am

re: #102 Killgore Trout

I looked into the Viper Militia earlier this morning. Nasty folks.

I shot Charles a couple of links to the org that exists now. I don't think he's going to link any of it because the material there is worse than the usual amateur anarchist's cookbook stuff you see on these dangerous nutball sites.

114 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:04:16am

Larouche is at the moronic convergence of left and right just like the Paulians and Birchers. It doesn't make any sense to squabble over labels. The Fact is that Larouche is now welcome on right. If he were to run today he'd get much more support from Republicans that he would from Democrats.

115 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:04:17am

re: #89 Desert Dog

Ok, you keep on believing that. I heard not one peep from ANY Democrat about the signs that compared Bush to Hitler. I cannot recall one instance of that. So, now that a few idiots on the right are doing it...suddenly, it's a big deal?

It is a big deal, it's taking a figure in history that stands for antisemitism and genocide and pure evil on a massive scale. The left has been using the "Nazi" tag for Republicans for YEARS and that was all fine and dandy. Now, it's not? It should not have been then, nor should it be now.

Goalpost moving x2. Frank - > All Democrats - >The Left.

You asked whether Frank had come down on the Bush signs, and I answered with my own question, which still stands.

Individual Democrat's silence on that kind of display in the Bush years - especially if they're volunteering opinions on it now - does not speak well for them.

116 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:05:01am

re: #60 thedopefishlives

He's an opportunist.

LaRouche is a ___ (fill in the blank with any or all of the following):

Crank
Kook
Nut
Conspiracist
Moonbat
Loon
Wingnut
Cultist
A poor man's Ralph Nader
A rich man's Ralph Nader
A perpetual candidate who offers nothing new to political discourse

117 NukeAtomrod  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:05:19am

re: #103 Kenneth

LaRouche has been associated with several different parties over the years:

Socialist Workers Party
Revolutionary Tendency (Trotskyite)
Spartacist League
Committee for Independent Political Action
Maoist Progressive Labor Party
Students for a Democratic Society
National Caucus of Labor Committees
U.S. Labor Party

He registered as a Democratic Party (despite the disapproval of the DNC)


La Rouche is no Democrat, philosophically speaking.

None of those organizations seem to be right wing by any definition I'm aware of. They are solidly leftist.

118 Pianobuff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:05:34am

re: #114 Killgore Trout

Larouche is at the moronic convergence of left and right just like the Paulians and Birchers. It doesn't make any sense to squabble over labels. The Fact is that Larouche is now welcome on right. If he were to run today he'd get much more support from Republicans that he would from Democrats.

The whole reason the LaRouchians are protesting is because they want immediate single-payer. Do you think the Republicans support that?

119 midwestgak  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:05:38am

re: #105 ggt

Hey {ggt}. Beautiful day. How you doing?

120 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:06:07am

re: #116 lawhawk

LaRouche is a ___ (fill in the blank with any or all of the following):

Crank
Kook
Nut
Conspiracist
Moonbat
Loon
Wingnut
Cultist
A poor man's Ralph Nader
A rich man's Ralph Nader
A perpetual candidate who offers nothing new to political discourse

WHACKO!

121 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:06:23am

re: #109 Gus 802

Hmmm,,, interesting.

122 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:06:27am

re: #5 MandyManners

You really ought to stick to four-letter words.

123 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:06:36am

re: #116 lawhawk

LaRouche is a ___ (fill in the blank with any or all of the following):

Crank
Kook
Nut
Conspiracist
Moonbat
Loon
Wingnut
Cultist
A poor man's Ralph Nader
A rich man's Ralph Nader
A perpetual candidate who offers nothing new to political discourse

I'd add a few more to that list, but most of them are not fit for public consumption.

124 Gus  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:06:46am

re: #115 Coracle

Goalpost moving x2. Frank - > All Democrats - >The Left.

You asked whether Frank had come down on the Bush signs, and I answered with my own question, which still stands.

Individual Democrat's silence on that kind of display in the Bush years - especially if they're volunteering opinions on it now - does not speak well for them.

LaRouche Fascism: A Sekrit History of the American Left

By Jonah Goldberg

//

125 Lee Coller  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:06:51am

Speaking of crazies on the right. I got an email from the "Our Country Deserves Better PAC" calling themselves the "Tea Party Express" selling that stupid "Joker" picture on a T-Shirt, claiming they've had huge demand for it (I don't doubt that).

This is stupid, it offends, it makes us look bad.

I'm not sure where they got my email, but I've unsubscribed from their list.

126 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:06:52am

there is a conservative local radio guy in hartford (Jim Vicevich on WTIC 1080) who is quite pragmatic and is a great alternative to the glenn beck madness on the competing station. Today he had on a gun advocate who made a point that makes lots of sense. He decried people who are bringing weapons (loaded and unloaded) to town hall meetings as a "statement" that "we the people" have rights too. His point was that we do have rights, but gun owners also have responsibilities to act properly and these "in your face" displays of weaponry truly hurt the cause that these folks claim to be supporting. I couldn't agree more.

127 VegasRick  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:06:57am

re: #110 Eowyn2

Unless they've changed their whole approach, LaRouchians are neither Dem nor Rep. They talk about no gvmt interference but their old pamphlets decry differently. I'm guessing they are like ANSWER in that they haven't changed their literature UNDERWARE in 40 years.

FTFY.

128 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:07:09am

re: #114 Killgore Trout

Larouche is at the moronic convergence of left and right just like the Paulians and Birchers. It doesn't make any sense to squabble over labels. The Fact is that Larouche is now welcome on right. If he were to run today he'd get much more support from Republicans that he would from Democrats.

The Weekly Standard blog is labeling him a Democrat specifically for political reasons - they're trying to divert the blame for the extremism at town halls and confuse the issue. I get really weary of this kind of responsibility-avoiding BS, no matter which party is doing it.

129 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:07:14am

re: #119 midwestgak

Hey {ggt}. Beautiful day. How you doing?

I'm ok, my nose begs to differ. I broke down, faced my fears of drowning and bought a neti pot. The think really works. I highly recommend it.

130 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:07:20am

re: #107 Charles

He has pretended to be a Democrat, and ran with that label, but the party does not want him. There is nothing he has ever said or written that is in anyway "Democratic".

Or democratic, for that matter.

We tend to think guys like this are harmless nutters. But compare him to the nastiest dictators of history: the only thing that separates La Rouche from being another Hitler, or Stalin or Mao or Pol Pot or Ceausescu is opportunity.

131 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:07:23am

re: #117 NukeAtomrod

None of those organizations seem to be right wing by any definition I'm aware of. They are solidly leftist.

You're right. In that case, it put's him on the left, which is close enough to the progressives. And like the progressives, he wants single payer. He's further left than the moderate democrats.

132 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:07:34am
133 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:07:43am

Israel says UN covering up Iran's nuclear arms drive

Israel is accusing the UN nuclear weapons watchdog of holding back incriminating evidence of Iran's drive to obtain nuclear weapons, the Haaretz newspaper reported on Wednesday.

It cited unnamed Israeli officials as saying the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) was refraining from publishing data obtained in recent months that indicates Iran is pursing information about weaponisation efforts and a military nuclear programme.

IAEA chief Mohamed ElBaradei, who is to vacate his post in December, has said the UN watchdog does not have any evidence suggesting Iran is developing a nuclear weapons programme.

But Haaretz cited officials as saying the new evidence was presented to the IAEA in a classified annex written by its inspectors and said to have been signed by the head of the inspection team in Iran.

134 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:07:53am

re: #8 Golem Akbar

I have to agree with Bawny. The signs of Hitler = Obama are not just stupid, but self-defeating loathsome, lying Palinesque travesties.

FTFY

135 SteveC  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:08:03am

re: #114 Killgore Trout

Larouche is at the moronic convergence of left and right just like the Paulians and Birchers. It doesn't make any sense to squabble over labels. The Fact is that Larouche is now welcome on right. If he were to run today he'd get much more support from Republicans that he would from Democrats.

Maybe that is what happened. Maybe Larouche and Laup Nor are like anti-matter. Someone brought them into contact with real matter and the universe exploded.

136 Gus  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:08:06am

re: #121 Killgore Trout

Hmmm,,, interesting.

I checked it several times. The second link show the progression but I left on link out for TOS reasons.

137 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:08:13am

re: #115 Coracle

Individual Democrat's silence on that kind of display in the Bush years - especially if they're volunteering opinions on it now - does not speak well for them.

Precisely, and up-ding

138 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:08:21am

re: #128 Charles

The Weekly Standard blog is labeling him a Democrat specifically for political reasons - they're trying to divert the blame for the extremism at town halls and confuse the issue. I get really weary of this kind of responsibility-avoiding BS, no matter which party is doing it.

Didn't they just get purchased by a right-wing theocrat?

139 Desert Dog  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:08:27am

re: #115 Coracle

Goalpost moving x2. Frank - > All Democrats - >The Left.

You asked whether Frank had come down on the Bush signs, and I answered with my own question, which still stands.

Individual Democrat's silence on that kind of display in the Bush years - especially if they're volunteering opinions on it now - does not speak well for them.

Well, you got me good there, Cor. Barney Frank would have glady admonished the crazy's at the anti-war rallies that carried the Bush=Hitler signs if he had just seen them, live and in person? riiight.

140 Randall Gross  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:08:50am

re: #121 Killgore Trout

Hmmm,,, interesting.

I was wondering who was still out there pimping the con-con, now I know. It's the birchers, militias, and luap norians.

141 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:09:17am

Beck loses another advertiser.

Farmers Insurance pulls Beck ads

142 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:09:33am

If you take a look at the LaRouche website, you won't be able to distinguish the front page from any mainstream right wing website. There is nothing "Democrat" or "left wing" about it AT ALL.

The LaRouche cult is attaching itself to the right wing at this point in time. Period.

143 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:09:34am

re: #117 NukeAtomrod

That is correct. Extreme leftist. La Rouche pretends to be right wing today, just like he pretended to be a Democrat in the past, to get money, votes and power.

144 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:09:42am

re: #118 Pianobuff

The whole reason the LaRouchians are protesting is because they want immediate single-payer. Do you think the Republicans support that?

I don't think that's true. He's opposed to it because he sees it as Government run genocide.

145 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:10:01am

re: #139 Desert Dog

Well, you got me good there, Cor. Barney Frank would have glady admonished the crazy's at the anti-war rallies that carried the Bush=Hitler signs if he had just seen them, live and in person? riiight.

Prove to me he wouldn't or show me he didn't. Speculations otherwise are pure aspersion casting.

146 theheat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:10:02am

re: #141 NJDhockeyfan

Cool, we have tons of Farmer's Insurance. That puts a little spring in my step today.

147 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:10:16am

re: #132 taxfreekiller

Ron Pauls base is over the top anti war under 30 Democrats not happy
with the elected Democrats not cutting off spending for the war in Iraq.
The balance is his core nut root Libertarians.

less than 5% of his national vote base are Republicans.

Nonsense. Paul's brand of nonsense caters to the isolationists in the GOP, and the GOP has long had an isolationist streak in it dating back to the pre WWII days. He might cater to the libertarians, but Paul is a creature of the GOP first and foremost.

148 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:10:43am

re: #131 Walter L. Newton

You're right. In that case, it put's him on the left, which is close enough to the progressives. And like the progressives, he wants single payer. He's further left than the moderate democrats.

Actually, La Rouche has come out against socialized medicine. Whether that;s what he really believes is unknown. It's what he's on about now. That's all.

149 Desert Dog  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:10:51am

re: #130 Kenneth

He has pretended to be a Democrat, and ran with that label, but the party does not want him. There is nothing he has ever said or written that is in anyway "Democratic".

Or democratic, for that matter.

We tend to think guys like this are harmless nutters. But compare him to the nastiest dictators of history: the only thing that separates La Rouche from being another Hitler, or Stalin or Mao or Pol Pot or Ceausescu is opportunity.

That is exactly right. He exploited the party mechanism in order to get his message out. If he tried that as an independent, he would not gotten anywhere. David Duke did the same as a Republican.

150 VegasRick  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:10:57am

re: #134 Cato the Elder

FTFY

You really need to go get that PDS checked on.

151 Silvergirl  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:11:05am

re: #129 ggt

I'm ok, my nose begs to differ. I broke down, faced my fears of drowning and bought a neti pot. The think really works. I highly recommend it.

Only look if you're a fan of The Office

152 Wendya  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:11:18am

re: #52 Gus 802

Lyndon LaRouche U.S. Presidential campaigns

Kind of hard to keep the nuts out of your party.

Then again, if we have to own ours, the other side does was well.

153 NukeAtomrod  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:11:43am

Hey! Wasn't the Students for a Democratic Society the group that Bill Ayers split off from to create the Weathermen?

154 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:12:17am

re: #153 NukeAtomrod

Hey! Wasn't the Students for a Democratic Society the group that Bill Ayers split off from to create the Weathermen?

You are correct!

155 Silvergirl  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:12:32am

re: #150 VegasRick

You really need to go get that PDS checked on.

He revels in the disease and would mourn the cure.

156 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:12:36am

re: #152 Wendya

Kind of hard to keep the nuts out of your party.

Then again, if we have to own ours, the other side does was well.

The Democratic Party specifically denounced LaRouche.

157 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:12:38am

re: #142 Charles

Who knows what he really believes?


The Heritage Foundation released a report, which stated that despite what they describe as LaRouche's appearance as a right-wing anticommunist, he takes political stands, "which in the end advance Soviet foreign policy goals." Longtime LaRouche critic Daniel O. Graham, former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, has stated that he believes LaRouche is an "unrepentant Marxist-Leninist" who pretended to be right-wing in order "to suck conservatives into giving him money."
158 Randall Gross  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:12:44am

re: #142 Charles

If you take a look at the LaRouche website, you won't be able to distinguish the front page from any mainstream right wing website. There is nothing "Democrat" or "left wing" about it AT ALL.

The LaRouche cult is attaching itself to the right wing at this point in time. Period.

Like Alex Jones he works the side that's out of power at the moment, guaranteed that there will be more malcontents willing to go extreme there. All of these nutballs are sapping from our base, and harming our causes greatly. Conservatives who can't see that are strategic idiots.

159 shiplord kirel  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:13:01am

re: #142 Charles

If you take a look at the LaRouche website, you won't be able to distinguish the front page from any mainstream right wing website. There is nothing "Democrat" or "left wing" about it AT ALL.

The LaRouche cult is attaching itself to the right wing at this point in time. Period.

Political barnacles, attaching themselves to any hull that hasn't been cleaned properly.
During the Clinton impeachment hearings, the LaRouchies defended Clinton in their own special way, their signs declaring "Save the Presidency! Jail 'Porno' Starr!" (referring to special prosecutor Ken Starr).

160 Desert Dog  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:13:13am

re: #145 Coracle

Prove to me he wouldn't or show me he didn't. Speculations otherwise are pure aspersion casting.

I give up Coracle, there is no point continuing this. You do not want to admit Barney Frank is a gigantic hypocrite and that is your right to do so. I say he is, you say he is not. We can agree to disagree.

161 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:14:02am

re: #158 Thanos

re: #159 shiplord kirel

These two posts said basically what I've been trying to say this whole time. Political opportunists, not caring what the name of the party is, only that they can get their foot in the door.

162 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:14:18am

re: #160 Desert Dog

. We can agree to disagree.

I disagree.

No... wait...

163 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:14:19am

re: #156 Charles

The Democratic Party specifically denounced LaRouche.

As opposed to the GOP embracing or ignoring our kooks.

164 avanti  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:14:25am

Interesting comments on how the health care reform polls if you describe the plan, not just ask about the Obama plan.

End game.

165 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:14:25am

Barney Frank always seems, to me, like a character on SNL. Real Life is funnier than stand-up.

166 theheat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:14:48am

re: #158 Thanos

Conservatives who can't see that are strategic idiots.

That's pretty much anyone high up on the food chain at the moment. It's like a downbound train.

167 Wendya  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:16:44am

re: #101 Walter L. Newton

I wanted to know. What is Ron Paul. Republican?

He ran for Congress as a republican because in his district, he couldn't get elected as a libertarian.

168 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:16:55am
169 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:17:02am

I have nothing but respect for Barney Frank.

Has there every been a more moral values oriented politician, in his personal and professional life, than Barney Frank?

I remember his brave stance during the Bush administration, when he defiantly stood of the front lines, speaking out against those in his own party, and supporters of his party, who would dare compare a sitting president to Hitler. It's so very rare to find a politician (outside of Honduras) that will call on a fellow party comrade to resign for comparing US troops to Nazis, Gulag guards and Pol Pot.

The unparalled wit. So spontaneous. It's as if he knew it was coming.

Those images are seared into my memory.

Barney Frank.

Rock.

Redeemer.

Giant.

170 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:18:01am

re: #169 Ben Hur

*WHACK*

171 Gus  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:18:02am

re: #156 Charles

The Democratic Party specifically denounced LaRouche.

Recent article I just came across:

Like It or Not, Larouche Cultists Are Aligning With Conservatives on Health Care
By DAVID WEIGEL 8/19/09 11:37 AM

The Weekly Standard’s John McCormack has another duplicitous blog post — he did the same thing last week — arguing that because the disturbed woman at Rep. Barney Frank’s (D-Mass.) town hall was a “LaRouche Democrat,” she doesn’t represent opposition to health care reform. It’s really beneath him, but he’s done it again...

172 NukeAtomrod  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:18:08am

re: #134 Cato the Elder

FTFY

Thanks for all your efforts to keep Sarah Palin relevant, Cato.

173 VegasRick  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:18:24am

re: #169 Ben Hur

I have nothing but respect for Barney Frank.

Has there every been a more moral values oriented politician, in his personal and professional life, than Barney Frank?

I remember his brave stance during the Bush administration, when he defiantly stood of the front lines, speaking out against those in his own party, and supporters of his party, who would dare compare a sitting president to Hitler. It's so very rare to find a politician (outside of Honduras) that will call on a fellow party comrade to resign for comparing US troops to Nazis, Gulag guards and Pol Pot.

The unparalled wit. So spontaneous. It's as if he knew it was coming.

Those images are seared into my memory.

Barney Frank.

Rock.

Redeemer.

Giant.

LOL! That is rich.

174 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:18:31am

gotta go

Have a Great Day all!

175 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:18:36am

Congo Space Program.

Youtube Video
176 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:19:00am

re: #82 Pianobuff

So people understand, the reason I even make an hay out of this with LaRouche is, while the media vocalizes every R-affiliated wart and blemish, they are often affiliation-tacit when the R label can't be stuck to this behavior.

By not clarifying, I think a lot of people are left with the impression that the many incidents involving the LaRouchians are naturally perpetrated by Republican loons. I'm not saying that R's don't have their issues either.

I think LaRouche is a nutjob, no doubt. I don't see him being in the mainstream of Democrat though by any means.

The omissions in media reporting are glaring to me, which is why I point this out.

If the entire party you claim to run for disowns you (as the Democrats have LaRouche), it would be tendentious in the extreme for the media to use the label. In fact, it would be the opposite of the kind of "truth telling" you seem to be advocating.

And L. "has run", not "ran", as a Dem.

177 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:19:00am

LarRouche is superfluous. This post is about a very good response by a politician, regardless of party, answering someone who is just spoiling for a fight, regardless of their affiliation. This ___ (fill in the box) = Hitler stuff belittles the monstrous evil that Hitler really was.

178 Randall Gross  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:19:14am

re: #166 theheat

That's pretty much anyone high up on the food chain at the moment. It's like a downbound train.

This is one of the most important charts for the future of the R's. If you look at the coming voter pool vs. the dieing voter pool you can see that someone needs to start drinking some coffee. When young conservatives are fed to the nutball machine it doesn't bode well for our future, and it feeds a destructive element within. It also drives off young people who lean conservative but who aren't really committed.

179 Desert Dog  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:19:35am

re: #161 thedopefishlives

re: #159 shiplord kirel

These two posts said basically what I've been trying to say this whole time. Political opportunists, not caring what the name of the party is, only that they can get their foot in the door.

Exploiting the system. Lyndon LaRouche did it as a Democrat. Ron Paul ran his entire campaign as a Republican, but he hardly stood for the mainstream of the party. He used his party affiliation to garner publicity he could never get running as a Libertarian or as a candidate for another third party. Ron Paul is a crackpot, but he is not in the same league as LaRouche.

180 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:20:22am

re: #167 Wendya

He ran for Congress as a republican because in his district, he couldn't get elected as a libertarian.

So he's a republican or do we have the same sort of nut here? LaRouche runs as a democrat, Paul runs as a republican, but neither really represent the party they claim?

181 Salamantis  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:21:38am

Lyndon LaRouche is as much of a Democrat or a Republican as is David Duke. Both major parties vehemently disown both of them.

182 theheat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:22:22am

re: #178 Thanos

Good catch. I also see them losing percentages specifically in my age group. Coincidence?

183 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:22:29am
184 Baier  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:22:36am

re: #180 Walter L. Newton

So he's a republican or do we have the same sort of nut here? LaRouche runs as a democrat, Paul runs as a republican, but neither really represent the party they claim?

Some say (Rush) Hitler was a Socialist as well. He was not.
I think it was Shakespeare that said

A turd by any other name still smells like crap.
185 astronmr20  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:23:13am

Don't these assholes fucking realize they are killing the chance for any real conservative message of dissent?

There are about a billion LEGITIMATE ways to criticize Obama, Frank, or this bill. For fuck's sake, people.

186 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:23:22am

You have to love the NYTIMES.

7 years of front page photos of dead, dying, weeping, screaming Arab/Muslim victims of Bush/Israel genocide.

75+ dead across Baghdad?

Photo of a beach at night lamenting the dangers of night swimming.

187 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:23:23am

re: #129 ggt

I'm ok, my nose begs to differ. I broke down, faced my fears of drowning and bought a neti pot. The think really works. I highly recommend it.

Mine doubles as a chia pet.

188 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:23:40am

re: #183 taxfreekiller

Score: On a -1 bad,, -10 the worst.

LaRouche ,,,-10
Ron Paul ,,,-9

This one goes to -11

189 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:23:47am

re: #133 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Israel says UN covering up Iran's nuclear arms drive

I'm shocked.
Really. I'm shocked the IAEA actually bothered to find any evidence of an Iranian nuclear program for them to hide.

190 Desert Dog  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:23:56am

re: #171 Gus 802

Like it or Not, Obama and his band of Merrymen are aligning themselves with socialist and communists with their health plan. That makes them socialists and communists then?

191 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:23:58am

re: #181 Salamantis

Lyndon LaRouche is as much of a Democrat or a Republican as is David Duke. Both major parties vehemently disown both of them.

The sad thing is, it looks as though the right is embracing him right now simply because he is anti-Obama as some on the left did when he was anti-Bush. It's really self-destructive IMHO.

192 Randall Gross  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:24:11am

re: #182 theheat

Good catch. I also see them losing percentages specifically in my age group. Coincidence?

The Democrats have stolen the future. When your message consists of anti-everything and you don't have a positive vision besides "Amurrrica should look like it did in the fifties!' you end up in this state.

193 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:24:40am

re: #142 Charles

LaRouche supports single-payer health care. That's a hard-left position. The Obama = Hitler posters are all from LaRouche. Maybe the opportunistic LaRouche is aligning himself with the hard-right at the moment, but wait fifteen minutes-- that'll change too!

Now, LaRouche and his followers are insane, and I don't condone bad behavior in questioning an elected official, but I think the fear out there is genuine. Whose fault is that? What is the "Obama" plan? With the waffling going on what the plan is, it's clear there's a shell game going on here.

There is a conservative alternative that would save Medicare and Medicaid without nationalizing the system. It would increase choice and competition in the health care marketplace. Increasing competition will reduce costs. Obama has co-opted that rhetoric, but I think it's too late to save his "plan" in the court of public opinion.

194 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:25:03am

re: #178 Thanos

This is one of the most important charts for the future of the R's. If you look at the coming voter pool vs. the dieing voter pool you can see that someone needs to start drinking some coffee. When young conservatives are fed to the nutball machine it doesn't bode well for our future, and it feeds a destructive element within. It also drives off young people who lean conservative but who aren't really committed.

That is a great chart...what I read into it is that some people become republican about in their 30's and stay that way for life and that Democrats pick up affiliation from Independents as they age.

195 Pianobuff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:25:18am

re: #176 Cato the Elder

If the entire party you claim to run for disowns you (as the Democrats have LaRouche), it would be tendentious in the extreme for the media to use the label. In fact, it would be the opposite of the kind of "truth telling" you seem to be advocating.

And L. "has run", not "ran", as a Dem.

Then why not identify them as LaRouchians? That would be honest, right? Most of the reporting I have been exposed to misses this.

Vis a Vis grammar... Preview is not always my friend. I'm legally blind and sometimes miss errors. The cost-benefit is different than for others, although I'm working on some equipment to cut the error rate down. I sometimes catch it later but not always. Hopefully my point was still clear, and you'll find it in you to forgive any future errors that arise.

196 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:25:19am

re: #171 Gus 802

Recent article I just came across:

Like It or Not, Larouche Cultists Are Aligning With Conservatives on Health Care
By DAVID WEIGEL 8/19/09 11:37 AM

I couldn't agree more with Weigel on this one. That Weekly Standard post is just blatantly dishonest.

197 Lee Coller  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:25:20am

re: #193 quickjustice

LaRouche supports single-payer health care. That's a hard-left position. The Obama = Hitler posters are all from LaRouche.

That's not entirely true.

198 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:25:43am

re: #185 astronmr20

Don't these assholes fucking realize they are killing the chance for any real conservative message of dissent?

There are about a billion LEGITIMATE ways to criticize Obama, Frank, or this bill. For fuck's sake, people.

They're like children, only interested in their own viewpoint.
/and, to them, their opinions are the only possible logical ones

199 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:26:42am

re: #144 Killgore Trout

I don't think that's true. He's opposed to it because he sees it as Government run genocide.

Does he think the Joooish doctors are planning it as a way to get more organs to harvest?

200 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:26:58am

re: #150 VegasRick

You really need to go get that PDS checked on.

Right, because Scarah didn't have any Nazi implications in mind when she unscrolled her "def panil" screed. Nope, not she, just whistlin' a little toon...

201 Randall Gross  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:27:33am

re: #194 Big Steve

That is a great chart...what I read into it is that some people become republican about in their 30's and stay that way for life and that Democrats pick up affiliation from Independents as they age.

Well you could interpret it that way, but I see a long term Dem lock on power in that chart if we don't change ourselves a bit and start really thinking about the future and how to make it positive.

202 harrylook  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:27:37am

This is how Frank responds to anyone who disagrees with him, whether the opponent is a loon like the woman with the Hitler sign, or just a rational conservative. Sure, it was a nice smack down. Fwank is still a tool.

203 theheat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:27:58am

re: #192 Thanos

Hey, according to some people, they just aren't behaving 1950s enough. You know, real conservatives. June in an apron, gays in the closet...

204 NukeAtomrod  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:28:01am

re: #177 Big Steve

LarRouche is superfluous. This post is about a very good response by a politician, regardless of party, answering someone who is just spoiling for a fight, regardless of their affiliation. This ___ (fill in the box) = Hitler stuff belittles the monstrous evil that Hitler really was.

YEAH! And we wouldn't want to belittle Hitler!

/ What?!?!

205 Gus  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:28:06am

re: #196 Charles

I couldn't agree more with Weigel on this one. That Weekly Standard post is just blatantly dishonest.

It seems to be a recurring theme: paint any flagrant anti-social behavior at a health care town hall meeting as coming from Democrats or liberals. Hence, even the open carry guys become "Democratic plants" for many. One part conspiracy mixed in with two parts fraud.

206 fizzlogic  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:28:54am

re: #27 Pianobuff

So what's Limbaugh's excuse?

207 Desert Dog  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:29:45am

re: #178 Thanos

This is one of the most important charts for the future of the R's. If you look at the coming voter pool vs. the dieing voter pool you can see that someone needs to start drinking some coffee. When young conservatives are fed to the nutball machine it doesn't bode well for our future, and it feeds a destructive element within. It also drives off young people who lean conservative but who aren't really committed.

You are correct. The Republicans need an influx of young blood. But, things have a way of evening out in this country. The number of non-affliated voters is growing because many people are tired of the offerings from both sides. The radical edges of both parties seem to have too strong of an influence on the policy positions. I would submit that the political culture of the USA always seems to reach an equilibrium though. Party membership goes up and down, but the identity of voters stays constant...about 1/3 "liberal", 1/3 "moderate" and 1/3 "conservative".

In this day and age of the 24 hour news cycle and the cultural and demographic change in our society, perhaps that balance will change?

208 Gus  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:30:05am

re: #190 Desert Dog

Like it or Not, Obama and his band of Merrymen are aligning themselves with socialist and communists with their health plan. That makes them socialists and communists then?

The article didn't conclude that they were conservative only that they are aligning themselves with conservatives.

209 Randall Gross  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:31:08am

re: #206 trendsurfer

So what's Limbaugh's excuse?

Bingo - the LaRoachie crap isn't going to get play in the media if there aren't conservatives pimping his swill. This disembowels the serious arguments against the medicare takeaways and rationing that would be created by public plan.

210 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:31:09am

Free Republic has a string denouncing Frank and approving of the Hitler/Obama sign, with no mention of the woman's barking mad LaRouche affiliation.
Other strings on this story cite the LaRouche connection but follow the Weekly Standard line in blaming it on the evil 'Rat party.

211 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:31:49am

re: #156 Charles

The Democratic Party specifically denounced LaRouche.

Larouche is a shapeshifter. If they see a space wide enough for the camel's nose in the Republican tent, they will point their nose in there.

The crazy that has seized the GOP has opened up a honkin' huge hole.

212 Gus  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:32:01am

re: #210 Shiplord Kirel

Free Republic has a string denouncing Frank and approving of the Hitler/Obama sign, with no mention of the woman's barking mad LaRouche affiliation.
Other strings on this story cite the LaRouche connection but follow the Weekly Standard line in blaming it on the evil 'Rat party.

Well now, there you go.

213 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:32:25am

Well, we do have an answer to Frank's question about what planet she's from; she comes from La-La-LaRouche land.

214 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:32:26am

re: #210 Shiplord Kirel

Free Republic has a string denouncing Frank and approving of the Hitler/Obama sign, with no mention of the woman's barking mad LaRouche affiliation.
Other strings on this story cite the LaRouche connection but follow the Weekly Standard line in blaming it on the evil 'Rat party.

Ugh. My bullshit detector is redlining again.

215 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:32:33am

re: #211 Alouette

Larouche is a shapeshifter. If they see a space wide enough for the camel's nose in the Republican tent, they will point their nose in there.

The crazy that has seized the GOP has opened up a honkin' huge hole.

It's a fascist tactic to change one's position to score political points.

216 filetandrelease  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:32:33am

re: #2 Killgore Trout

Pwnded by Barney Frank. That's just sad.

That could be the first time I ever enjoyed listening to Barney Frank. "Talking to a dining room table" is funny shit.

217 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:32:42am
218 Desert Dog  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:32:50am

re: #208 Gus 802

The article didn't conclude that they were conservative only that they are aligning themselves with conservatives.

It was a little sarcasm on my part to point out that quite a few loonies and hardcore socialists like the idea of cradle to grave single payer medical coverage. That does not mean Obama and the architects of this current plan are loonies or hardcore socialists though.

219 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:33:27am

Laugh Barney is the man. I found another picture of that woman with two others as follows:

Mildly NSFW...

[Link:flickr.com... ]

220 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:34:06am

Allegations of fascistic tendencies

LaRouche publications strongly denounce fascism and warn that it is an ever-present danger. LaRouche says that the model he advocates is that of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. He has stated that descriptions of him as a neo-fascist or anti-Semite "originate with the drug lobby or the Soviet operation — which is sometimes the same thing."[149] However, it has been repeatedly alleged that LaRouche and his movement have fascist aspects, starting as early as 1974.[150] In 1976 Julian Bond called LaRouche's U.S. Labor Party "a group of leftwing fascists".[151] By the mid-1980s LaRouche's following was called a "fascistic cult".[152] Notable individuals that have described LaRouche or his movement as having fascist or neo-fascist aspects include Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Jesse Jackson, Clara Fraser, Stephen J. Solarz, Bob Hattoy, Lenora B. Fulani, Arthur Schlesinger Jr., Malik Shabazz, and Manning Marable. Dennis King, Chip Berlet, Russ Bellant, and Tim Wohlforth allege that LaRouche covertly supports fascistic policies. According to Wohlforth and Dennis Tourish:

The parallel between LaRouche's thinking and that of the classical fascist model is striking. LaRouche, like Mussolini and Hitler before him, borrowed from Marx yet changed his theories fundamentally. Most important, Marx's internationalist outlook was abandoned in favor of a narrow nation-state perspective. Marx's goal of abolishing capitalism was replaced by the model of a totalitarian state that directs an economy where ownership of the means of production is still largely in public hands. The corporations and their owners remain in place but have to take their orders from LaRouche. Hitler called the schema "national socialism". LaRouche hopes the term "the American System" will be more acceptable.[153]

LaRouche has advanced, according to Dennis King and others, ideas which appear to be modeled on fascist and even Nazi racialist concepts.[52][154] In an examination of LaRouche's writings on political theory, King argues that LaRouche was really advocating a fascist-style state in which all political dissent would be crushed.[155] King suggests that LaRouche's relationships with German rocket scientists may indicate some form of pro-Nazi sympathies on the part of LaRouche.[70]

221 CommonCents  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:34:07am

re: #21 Coracle

Can you point out an instance when Frank was confronted or asked about Bush signs?

Can you point out where Frank was asked to comment on this sign? Someone was holding it, he decided on his own to weigh in.

222 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:34:56am

re: #219 Kenneth

Allegations of fascistic tendencies

LaRouche publications strongly denounce fascism and warn that it is an ever-present danger. LaRouche says that the model he advocates is that of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. He has stated that descriptions of him as a neo-fascist or anti-Semite "originate with the drug lobby or the Soviet operation — which is sometimes the same thing."[149] However, it has been repeatedly alleged that LaRouche and his movement have fascist aspects, starting as early as 1974.[150] In 1976 Julian Bond called LaRouche's U.S. Labor Party "a group of leftwing fascists".[151] By the mid-1980s LaRouche's following was called a "fascistic cult".[152] Notable individuals that have described LaRouche or his movement as having fascist or neo-fascist aspects include Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Jesse Jackson, Clara Fraser, Stephen J. Solarz, Bob Hattoy, Lenora B. Fulani, Arthur Schlesinger Jr., Malik Shabazz, and Manning Marable. Dennis King, Chip Berlet, Russ Bellant, and Tim Wohlforth allege that LaRouche covertly supports fascistic policies. According to Wohlforth and Dennis Tourish:

The parallel between LaRouche's thinking and that of the classical fascist model is striking. LaRouche, like Mussolini and Hitler before him, borrowed from Marx yet changed his theories fundamentally. Most important, Marx's internationalist outlook was abandoned in favor of a narrow nation-state perspective. Marx's goal of abolishing capitalism was replaced by the model of a totalitarian state that directs an economy where ownership of the means of production is still largely in public hands. The corporations and their owners remain in place but have to take their orders from LaRouche. Hitler called the schema "national socialism". LaRouche hopes the term "the American System" will be more acceptable.[153]

LaRouche has advanced, according to Dennis King and others, ideas which appear to be modeled on fascist and even Nazi racialist concepts.[52][154] In an examination of LaRouche's writings on political theory, King argues that LaRouche was really advocating a fascist-style state in which all political dissent would be crushed.[155] King suggests that LaRouche's relationships with German rocket scientists may indicate some form of pro-Nazi sympathies on the part of LaRouche.[70]

Thanks for the back up!

223 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:35:40am

re: #221 CommonCents

Can you point out where Frank was asked to comment on this sign? Someone was holding it, he decided on his own to weigh in.

Are you talking about the video? The woman asked him a direct question and referred to Nazis, he didn't just decide to weight in. If you are talking about some other media, my apologies.

224 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:35:50am

re: #186 Ben Hur

You have to love the NYTIMES.

7 years of front page photos of dead, dying, weeping, screaming Arab/Muslim victims of Bush/Israel genocide.

75+ dead across Baghdad?

Photo of a beach at night lamenting the dangers of night swimming.

What time did the bombings happen?

What time does the NYT go to press?

225 Gus  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:35:57am

re: #218 Desert Dog

It was a little sarcasm on my part to point out that quite a few loonies and hardcore socialists like the idea of cradle to grave single payer medical coverage. That does not mean Obama and the architects of this current plan are loonies or hardcore socialists though.

OK It's difficult to avoid a socialist label in many respects due to the fact that it represents "organized living" which can be applied to a wide range of groups.

226 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:36:35am

re: #190 Desert Dog

Like it or Not, Obama and his band of Merrymen are aligning themselves with socialist and communists with their health plan. That makes them socialists and communists then?

Quack.

227 CommonCents  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:37:02am

re: #194 Big Steve

That is a great chart...what I read into it is that some people become republican about in their 30's and stay that way for life and that Democrats pick up affiliation from Independents as they age.

I've heard somewhere that if you're not a liberal in your youth you don't have a heart and if you're not a conservative as an adult you don't have a brain. Can't quite recall who said that one.

228 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:37:21am

re: #200 Cato the Elder

Right, because Scarah didn't have any Nazi implications in mind when she unscrolled her "def panil" screed. Nope, not she, just whistlin' a little toon...

Cato, congratulations. I see you finally made in to the Palin thread in time to call her a hoe(whore.) You must be so proud.

229 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:37:32am

re: #201 Thanos

Well you could interpret it that way, but I see a long term Dem lock on power in that chart if we don't change ourselves a bit and start really thinking about the future and how to make it positive.

I have an honest question.
What would be the true cost to the Republican party to drop the Evangelical and wingnut constituencies? I'm thinking some specifics:
*Pro-science (e.g. dropping creationism-in-schools support).
*Gay rights neutral
*Abortion neutral
and perhaps
*Energy-Independence-As-National-Defense and industrial recovery.

The party would lose the far right social conservatives, and some of the wingnuts. But what would they do? Stay at home? Create an ineffective radical party? Vote Democratic? I certainly doubt the last. But wouldn't the Reps stand to gain more? I believe the above list and more are what keep many independents and social lib/fiscal cons "blue dogs?" voters away from the party.

230 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:37:44am

re: #224 MandyManners

What time did the bombings happen?

What time does the NYT go to press?

An AP article says "midmorning".
(Don't know about press time.)

231 Athos  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:38:07am

re: #227 CommonCents

I've heard somewhere that if you're not a liberal in your youth you don't have a heart and if you're not a conservative as an adult you don't have a brain. Can't quite recall who said that one.

Churchill

232 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:38:28am

re: #225 Gus 802

OK It's difficult to avoid a socialist label in many respects due to the fact that it represents "organized living" which can be applied to a wide range of groups.

Single payer isn't socialized medicine by definition, I believe. Socialized medicine is a model where the doctors, etc are employed by the state.

233 VegasRick  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:38:30am

re: #227 CommonCents

I've heard somewhere that if you're not a liberal in your youth you don't have a heart and if you're not a conservative as an adult you don't have a brain. Can't quite recall who said that one.

Churchill

234 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:38:49am

re: #230 pre-Boomer Marine brat

An AP article says "midmorning".
(Don't know about press time.)

That's what--nine or 10 hours ahead of New York?

235 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:39:01am

re: #221 CommonCents

Can you point out where Frank was asked to comment on this sign? Someone was holding it, he decided on his own to weigh in.

Come now. The woman said "Nazi" how many times?

236 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:39:08am

re: #222 Sharmuta

If that is the case with LaRouche and his followers (which, I'll admit, I knew very little of until recently), then they are in fact very dangerous people indeed. They need to be rejected from either mainstream party pronto. A nut like LaRouche and his followers with the full backing of a mainstream political party would be a very bad thing, IMHO, from what I've seen.

237 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:39:17am

re: #229 Coracle

I have an honest question.
What would be the true cost to the Republican party to drop the Evangelical and wingnut constituencies? I'm thinking some specifics:
*Pro-science (e.g. dropping creationism-in-schools support).
*Gay rights neutral
*Abortion neutral
and perhaps
*Energy-Independence-As-National-Defense and industrial recovery.

The party would lose the far right social conservatives, and some of the wingnuts. But what would they do? Stay at home? Create an ineffective radical party? Vote Democratic? I certainly doubt the last. But wouldn't the Reps stand to gain more? I believe the above list and more are what keep many independents and social lib/fiscal cons "blue dogs?" voters away from the party.

My opinion is the Goldwater conservatives would come back to the party, and we would gain membership from others who lean right but are turned off by the so-cons. I met some republicans who voted for Obama, and was specifically told it was due to creationism and anti-science.

238 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:39:24am

re: #224 MandyManners

What time did the bombings happen?

What time does the NYT go to press?

I don't know.

I'll ammend my statement:

Do you guys believe that NO ONE in Iraq or Afganistan or Gaza(especially with all the pre-election violence being reported) was killed by American or Israeli forces yesterday?

But beaches are very dangerous at night,

239 CommonCents  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:39:25am

re: #231 Athos

Churchill

Thank you.

240 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:39:31am

re: #234 MandyManners

That's what--nine or 10 hours ahead of New York?

6 or 7, I think.
I'll go check.

241 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:39:35am

barney may be right on this one, but in the past he has never shied away from painting the GOP as a racist party when positions he supported were opposed by republicans. he did it as recently as August 2008 when the housing mess was dominating the news cycle.

242 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:39:51am

re: #197 Lee Coller

Link?

243 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:40:40am

re: #234 MandyManners

That's what--nine or 10 hours ahead of New York?

Seven.

244 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:40:41am

re: #236 Honorary Yooper

If that is the case with LaRouche and his followers (which, I'll admit, I knew very little of until recently), then they are in fact very dangerous people indeed. They need to be rejected from either mainstream party pronto. A nut like LaRouche and his followers with the full backing of a mainstream political party would be a very bad thing, IMHO, from what I've seen.

Bear in mind I'm simply calling the tactics fascist.

245 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:40:42am

re: #234 MandyManners

That's what--nine or 10 hours ahead of New York?

It's 5 hours ahead of NYC.

246 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:40:42am

And then there is this:

Partners in Bigotry: The LaRouche Cult and the Nation of Islam

The professional bigots of the Nation of Islam (NOI) and the Lyndon LaRouche organization have recently revived an ad hoc alliance to advance their attack on Jews and Jewish organizations. They have held joint programs and street demonstrations to vilify the Anti-Defamation League for allegedly fostering the AIDS epidemic, promoting drugs and violence, and "attacking" black leaders. Much of their rhetoric has been confrontational and violence prone. The two fired a new incendiary salvo recently, suggesting that ADL is somehow involved in a plot to kill Minister Louis Farrakhan.

Apart from the bleak diversion offered by this spectacle, it is useful, on a more serious level, to see what these hate peddlers have in common. It's hard to imagine two more disparate fringe groups. The Nation of Islam, a black separatist, anti-white group, boasts ties to Libya and an assortment of neo-Marxist radical groups and violent street gangs.[1] The LaRouche political cult, whose bizarre conspiracy theories are impossible to place on the ideological map, draws mainly white, middle-class adherents.

247 Randall Gross  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:41:06am

re: #236 Honorary Yooper

If that is the case with LaRouche and his followers (which, I'll admit, I knew very little of until recently), then they are in fact very dangerous people indeed. They need to be rejected from either mainstream party pronto. A nut like LaRouche and his followers with the full backing of a mainstream political party would be a very bad thing, IMHO, from what I've seen.

He's like Alain Benoist, if you look at him on the surface he appears Left, but dig deep and you find ethno-fascism. This is why people like Filip Dewinter read his books.

248 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:41:21am

re: #243 MandyManners

Seven.

See my 245.
just checked a time zone site on the Web.

249 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:41:30am

re: #241 _RememberTonyC

barney may be right on this one, but in the past he has never shied away from painting the GOP as a racist party when positions he supported were opposed by republicans. he did it as recently as August 2008 when the housing mess was dominating the news cycle.

here's a link [Link: politicsblog.projo.com...]

250 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:41:43am

So, if the bombings happened mid-morning, I'd peg that at 9:00. That means the time in NYC was 2:00 a.m.. I'm not sure but, I think that the paper had gone to press by then.

251 theheat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:41:49am

re: #229 Coracle

They've never had the balls to try it before, and it's so tenuous now, they won't. I've said the exact same thing.

Like, the far far right would suddenly go Dem? Not. Nor, do they have enough of a majority to defeat a more updated and centered GOP. But the GOP doesn't want to lose any more percentages, so they'll keep courting the socons and Fundies i.e. they'll continue to refuse to evolve, and become less relevant.

It's a Catch 22.

252 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:41:54am

re: #231 Athos

Churchill

Winston, not Ward.

253 Gus  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:41:58am

re: #220 Kenneth

This section:

The parallel between LaRouche's thinking and that of the classical fascist model is striking. LaRouche, like Mussolini and Hitler before him, borrowed from Marx yet changed his theories fundamentally. Most important, Marx's internationalist outlook was abandoned in favor of a narrow nation-state perspective. Marx's goal of abolishing capitalism was replaced by the model of a totalitarian state that directs an economy where ownership of the means of production is still largely in public hands. The corporations and their owners remain in place but have to take their orders from LaRouche. Hitler called the schema "national socialism". LaRouche hopes the term "the American System" will be more acceptable.

Was partially authored by Tim Wohlforth:

Wohlforth in recent years has been a member of the Democratic Socialists of America. In 1994 he published his memoirs, The Prophet's Children. He subsequently co-authored On The Edge: Political Cults of the Left and Right (2000) with Dennis Tourish. His former wife Nancy Wohlforth, is Secretary-Treasurer of the Office and Professional Employees International Union (OPEIU) and on the Executive Committee of the AFL-CIO. He is presently married to Joyce Gibrick.

254 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:42:13am

re: #238 Ben Hur

I don't know.

I'll ammend my statement:

Do you guys believe that NO ONE in Iraq or Afganistan or Gaza(especially with all the pre-election violence being reported) was killed by American or Israeli forces yesterday?

But beaches are very dangerous at night,

SAND SHARK!

255 Athos  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:42:38am

re: #229 Coracle

Before one even considers the 'cost' - one has to consider if there is the will. At this point, there isn't even the will to confront the birchers / paulians - or other flotsam of the political fringe who are attempting to ride the rising tide against the Pelosi / Reid / Obama arrogance towards mainstream US. The fringe is looking to get attention by their actions - when in reality - we need to expose and pull the chain on them so the mainstream / conservatives aren't tainted by their looniness.

Without the will to boot those fringe players out - there is clearly no will to clean up the rest of the fringe thinkers (creationists etc.).

256 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:42:56am

Oh great, expect the Nirthers, Truthers and other assorted rabble to be giddy with expectation.

Oliver Stone revealing 'Secret History of America'

The controversial director is creating a 10-part documentary series for Showtime titled "Secret History of America."

Narrated by Stone, the series promises to focus on events that "at the time went under-reported, but crucially shaped America's unique and complex history of the last 60 years," according to Showtime.

Subjects will include President Harry Truman’s decision to drop the atomic bomb on Japan, the origins of the Cold War with the Soviet Union, to "the fierce struggle between war and peace in America’s national security complex."

The project includes "newly discovered facts and accounts" from the Kennedy administration, the Vietnam War and the great changes in America’s role in the world since the fall of Communism in the 1980s.

“Through this epic 10-hour series, which I feel is the deepest contribution I could ever make in film to my children and the next generation, I can only hope a change in our thinking will result," Stone said in a statement.

257 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:43:02am

re: #245 pre-Boomer Marine brat

It's 5 hours ahead of NYC.


It's 7:42 p.m. over there right now.

258 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:43:19am

re: #250 MandyManners

So, if the bombings happened mid-morning, I'd peg that at 9:00. That means the time in NYC was 2:00 a.m.. I'm not sure but, I think that the paper had gone to press by then.

Could be!

/*grumble* ... but these facts are no fun, Mandy ... :D

259 debutaunt  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:43:32am

re: #232 Locker

Single payer isn't socialized medicine by definition, I believe. Socialized medicine is a model where the doctors, etc are employed by the state.

Then what is single payer?

260 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:43:43am

[Link: www.timeanddate.com...]

261 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:43:44am

re: #229 Coracle

I have an honest question.
What would be the true cost to the Republican party to drop the Evangelical and wingnut constituencies? I'm thinking some specifics:
*Pro-science (e.g. dropping creationism-in-schools support).
*Gay rights neutral
*Abortion neutral
and perhaps
*Energy-Independence-As-National-Defense and industrial recovery.

The party would lose the far right social conservatives, and some of the wingnuts. But what would they do? Stay at home? Create an ineffective radical party? Vote Democratic? I certainly doubt the last. But wouldn't the Reps stand to gain more? I believe the above list and more are what keep many independents and social lib/fiscal cons "blue dogs?" voters away from the party.

This hits home for me. It's almost entirely the social views you listed above which keep me from supporting a majority of Republican candidates. I was very happy when McCain won the nomination.

I was seriously considering voting for him until he chose Sarah Palin as his running mate. That pretty much destroyed his chances with me and almost every other moderate and independent I converse with and I feel he did it to appeal to a base he already had voting for him cause they were NOT going to vote for Obama.

262 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:43:48am

re: #246 Kenneth

And then there is this:

Partners in Bigotry: The LaRouche Cult and the Nation of Islam

Apart from the bleak diversion offered by this spectacle, it is useful, on a more serious level, to see what these hate peddlers have in common. It's hard to imagine two more disparate fringe groups. The Nation of Islam, a black separatist, anti-white group, boasts ties to Libya and an assortment of neo-Marxist radical groups and violent street gangs.[1] The LaRouche political cult, whose bizarre conspiracy theories are impossible to place on the ideological map, draws mainly white, middle-class adherents.


When do we see articles on LaRouche, the great uniter?
///

263 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:44:06am

re: #254 MandyManners

SAND SHARK!

Candygram

264 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:44:14am

re: #227 CommonCents

I've heard somewhere that if you're not a liberal in your youth you don't have a heart and if you're not a conservative as an adult you don't have a brain. Can't quite recall who said that one.

Winston Churchill iirc.
As much as I admire the man, though, I don't buy that one. I was very conservative as a young adult. Influences included a contrarian reaction to my parents (who were major Dems), my experience as an eyewitness to the 1968 Chicago Convention riots (my mom was a delegate), and (most especially) my tour in Vietnam and my observations of the media there. If anything I have become more liberal with age, especially after the rise of the relgious right. As with Barry Goldwater himself, the changes may be more with the definitions of conservatism than with my own positions.

265 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:44:31am

re: #254 MandyManners

SAND SHARK!

Grunions (at least, in their mating season)

266 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:44:46am

re: #258 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Could be!

/*grumble* ... but these facts are no fun, Mandy ... :D

I'm not trying to defend the NYT but, there is nothing a paper can do once it's gone to press. Well, they have been known to put out up-dated editions but, that is rare.

267 Desert Dog  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:44:55am

re: #237 Sharmuta

My opinion is the Goldwater conservatives would come back to the party, and we would gain membership from others who lean right but are turned off by the so-cons. I met some republicans who voted for Obama, and was specifically told it was due to creationism and anti-science.

I mean this with no disrespect, but are your friends that voted for Obama pleased with the results? I cannot understand why anyone that calls themselves a Republican would have voted for Obama. McCain ran a poor campaign and even I have problems with him, but I cannot see myself voting for a man with Obama's record and tendencies. McCain is not a religious nut, a creationist nor anti-science, is he?

268 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:45:07am

The Democrats are figuring out how to stifle the very kinds of tactics they used to get to power.

At first they were shocked that it could happen to them and you had some stupid responses and counter accusations.

But it takes a shameless asshole to see it for what it is and turn it on the person using it - Barney Frank comes through again.

Sadly, this is the many who delivered the FannieMae debacle to the country, complete with getting a high paying job there for his lover.

Substantive and difficult questions could be directed at Frank to make him squirm and expose his incompetence. There was a time when Republicans were good at asking such questions. Now it is just "You are a socialist!" which gets refuted with a casual, "No I am not, but you are an idiot."

The gutter politics of declaring all opponents as Hitler is best left with the people who bring paper mache Ghandis to protests. Republicans should sharpen their focus on the economic insustainability of Obama's entitlement fairy land placed on top of a bankrupt medicare and social security system (which Democrats refused to reform).

But I am cynical about the Republican party - given current leadership they are more likely to counter attack by calling Frank a Darwinist and asserting that all Darwinists are therefore homosexuals.

269 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:45:30am

re: #257 MandyManners

It's 7:42 p.m. over there right now.

Yes, and 12:42 in NYC

270 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:45:31am

Calling LaRouche a Democrat is exactly like the tactic of claiming liberals are 'fascists'-- it is, at best, a complete misunderstanding of what words mean, and at worst (and most often) is an attempt to distort and mislead.

271 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:45:37am

re: #263 opnion

Candygram

Candy for the Jordyptians only when planes fly into buildings in the U.S..

272 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:46:01am

re: #264 Shiplord Kirel

As with Barry Goldwater himself, the changes may be more with the definitions of conservatism than with my own positions.

I think it's the changing of the term "conservative" which is why I've added the modifier "Goldwater" when I apply it to myself.

273 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:46:11am

re: #259 debutaunt

Then what is single payer?

I put this up a few days ago but this one seems to be accurate and reflect what I support vs what I do not support.

[Link: medterms.com...]

Single-payer health care: A system of health care characterized by universal and comprehensive coverage. Single-payer health care is similar to the health services provided by Medicare in the US. The government pays for care that is delivered in the private (mostly not-for-profit) sector. Doctors are in private practice and are paid on a fee-for-service basis from government funds. The government does not own or manage their medical practices or hospitals.

Single-payer health care is distinct and different from socialized medicine in which doctors and hospitals work for and draw salaries from the government.

274 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:46:38am

re: #267 Desert Dog

I mean this with no disrespect, but are your friends that voted for Obama pleased with the results? I cannot understand why anyone that calls themselves a Republican would have voted for Obama. McCain ran a poor campaign and even I have problems with him, but I cannot see myself voting for a man with Obama's record and tendencies. McCain is not a religious nut, a creationist nor anti-science, is he?

You assume I was speaking to friends.

275 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:46:56am

re: #266 MandyManners

I'm not trying to defend the NYT but, there is nothing a paper can do once it's gone to press. Well, they have been known to put out up-dated editions but, that is rare.

Yes, I know, and I agree -- let's nail 'em on facts, not crap.
(My closing to that comment was supposed to be humorous)

276 realwest  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:47:03am

re: #229 Coracle
"But wouldn't the Reps stand to gain more? I believe the above list and more are what keep many independents and social lib/fiscal cons "blue dogs?" voters away from the party."
Those voters would no doubt go "third party" and probably hurt whomever the Republican Candidate would be. The Republicans would however, return to their honest roots of small government, individual rights AND obligations, and fiscal responsiblity.
Regrettably, I don't think THOSE particular honest roots would garner enough votes to win any sort of National contest and might in fact defeat Republicans in any number of State contests (for U.S. Senate, for example).
Part of the problem for Republians (and it used to be a problem for Democrats as well with the extreme Left wing of their party, until said Left wing became the Democratic Party) is that ANYONE can put an "R" after their name. Political Parties don't have any legal standing to stop anyone from calling themselves Republicans or Democrats. The RNC could of course deny funds to those whacko's we'd like to get rid of, and instead give it to primary opponent challengers, but that would simply lessen the amount of money the Republicans would have for general elections.
I just thank God everyday that the RNC has not embraced Larouche or his ilk.

277 debutaunt  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:47:24am

re: #273 Locker

Please just tell me, or not.

278 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:47:26am

So, if the, let's say, New Black Panthers, happen to agree with the GOP on an issue, or in other more stronger words, aligns themselves, with an issue the GOP supports independently, the GOP is in bed with the Black Panthers?

279 Desert Dog  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:47:41am

re: #274 Sharmuta

You assume I was speaking to friends.

yes, I read that now, sorry

280 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:47:42am

re: #237 Sharmuta

My opinion is the Goldwater conservatives would come back to the party, and we would gain membership from others who lean right but are turned off by the so-cons. I met some republicans who voted for Obama, and was specifically told it was due to creationism and anti-science.

I consider myself Independent, slightly left socially, conservative fiscally (and thus unrepresented by either party), and deeply pro science. This has shut off most Republican candidates for me for a long time. Are there any Reps with the balls and policies to buck the crippling weight of the radical right?

281 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:47:44am

Way to go Bawney! I only wish now he could continue his correct streak into the economy...but no such luck...

282 realwest  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:48:01am

re: #232 Locker

Single payer isn't socialized medicine by definition, I believe. Socialized medicine is a model where the doctors, etc are employed by the state.

Doesn't that make the State the Single Payer?

283 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:49:09am

re: #253 Gus 802

Stalinists called Trotskyites "Social Fascists" and likened them to the Nazis. I'm not sure it is at fruitful to attempt to parse the arcane nomenclature of Leftist labels and slurs. It's enough to know that La Rouche's political philosophy, if it can be called that, is all over the map. It's a weird mixture of extreme left, extreme right, paranoia, and a heavy does of antisemitism.

284 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:49:18am

re: #277 debutaunt

Please just tell me, or not.

You asked me what single payer is and I linked AND quoted the definition. What didn't I tell you?

285 debutaunt  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:49:40am

re: #277 debutaunt

Please just tell me, or not.

"The government pays for care that is delivered in the private (mostly not-for-profit) sector."

What does that mean?

286 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:49:53am

re: #280 Coracle

I consider myself Independent, slightly left socially, conservative fiscally (and thus unrepresented by either party), and deeply pro science. This has shut off most Republican candidates for me for a long time. Are there any Reps with the balls and policies to buck the crippling weight of the radical right?

I'm hopeful Governor Huntsman will be that man in 8 to 12 years nationally, but it would be nice to see more Goldwater conservatives step up for Congress and other leadership positions in the party. Until the GOP as a whole is more welcoming of the Goldwater right, we won't see a presidential candidate who holds these views.

287 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:50:05am

Here's a question for the Lizards, when was the last time you remember seeing the terms grim milestone or quagmire in the NYT?

288 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:50:17am

re: #282 realwest

Doesn't that make the State the Single Payer?

Yes sir, see my #273.

289 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:50:44am
290 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:50:48am

re: #285 debutaunt

"The government pays for care that is delivered in the private (mostly not-for-profit) sector."

What does that mean?

Do you not speak english?

291 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:50:52am

re: #261 Locker

This hits home for me. It's almost entirely the social views you listed above which keep me from supporting a majority of Republican candidates. I was very happy when McCain won the nomination.

I was seriously considering voting for him until he chose Sarah Palin as his running mate. That pretty much destroyed his chances with me and almost every other moderate and independent I converse with and I feel he did it to appeal to a base he already had voting for him cause they were NOT going to vote for Obama.

Add one more.

292 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:50:59am

re: #287 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Here's a question for the Lizards, when was the last time you remember seeing the terms grim milestone or quagmire in the NYT?

Last month. When they pointed out that it was the deadliest month out of the last 9 years of A'stan.

Oh wait, I read that here. My bad.

293 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:51:13am
294 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:51:18am

re: #273 Locker

[Link: medterms.com...]

Single-payer health care: A system of health care characterized by universal and comprehensive coverage. Single-payer health care is similar to the health services provided by Medicare in the US. The government pays for care that is delivered in the private (mostly not-for-profit) sector. Doctors are in private practice and are paid on a fee-for-service basis from government funds. The government does not own or manage their medical practices or hospitals.

Single-payer health care is distinct and different from socialized medicine in which doctors and hospitals work for and draw salaries from the government.

This is what the above reminds me of:

It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it.--Dan Quayle

But that's just me...

295 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:51:43am

re: #261 Locker

I was seriously considering voting for him until he chose Sarah Palin as his running mate. That pretty much destroyed his chances with me and almost every other moderate and independent I converse with and I feel he did it to appeal to a base he already had voting for him cause they were NOT going to vote for Obama.

So you voted for a Vice President, not a President.
How's Joe doing these days ?

296 debutaunt  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:51:56am

re: #290 Locker

Do you not speak english?

Is the private sector mostly not-for-profit?

297 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:52:19am

And there can't me any milestones overthere.

(check out the big brain on brett!)

298 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:52:24am

re: #285 debutaunt

"The government pays for care that is delivered in the private (mostly not-for-profit) sector."

What does that mean?

It means that you still have health "insurance", but the government is the only insurer.

And this gives the government control over what health care you get, and since they can set reimbursement rates, will control indirectly the investment in health care by hospitals, pharmaceutical manufacturers, etc.
And their low rates will probably drive doctors out of the business.

299 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:52:32am

re: #287 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Here's a question for the Lizards, when was the last time you remember seeing the terms grim milestone or quagmire in the NYT?

November 10th, 2008.

300 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:52:38am

re: #286 Sharmuta

I'm hopeful Governor Huntsman will be that man in 8 to 12 years nationally, but it would be nice to see more Goldwater conservatives step up for Congress and other leadership positions in the party. Until the GOP as a whole is more welcoming of the Goldwater right, we won't see a presidential candidate who holds these views.

Agreed. BTW, who is Governor Huntsman? I've not heard of him before.

301 Desert Dog  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:52:55am

re: #289 taxfreekiller

On an Odd Note:

[Link: www.nws.noaa.gov...]

Early season "cold front" is predicted to turn hurricane Bill away from U.S. Coast.
Saved by "climate change".

There is a very bright maroon blob over my house in that map...ugh...One more month of "the oven" and it's back to happy days here in the desert.

302 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:53:13am

re: #291 Coracle

Add one more.

Same here. BTW, I believe Ludwig Van Quixote is another of us.

303 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:53:25am

re: #300 Honorary Yooper

Agreed. BTW, who is Governor Huntsman? I've not heard of him before.

Governor of Utah.

304 CommonCents  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:53:28am

re: #287 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Here's a question for the Lizards, when was the last time you remember seeing the terms grim milestone or quagmire in the NYT?

I can't recall the last time I looked at the NYT.

305 Leonidas Hoplite  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:53:35am

re: #215 Sharmuta

It's a fascist tactic to change one's position to score political points.

Don't know about that one. I'd say its a political tactic. Just sayin'.

306 DaddyG  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:53:54am

Who did ignoramuses without a point accuse people of being like before Hitler came to power?

307 Irish Rose  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:54:18am

Even disgusting individuals like Barney Frank get it right sometimes.
It doesn't mean that they're any less disgusting.

Good afternoon lizards, how's everyone?

308 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:54:19am

re: #276 realwest

Real, you don't see the Democrats purging their extreme elements.
Hell they consider their extremists to be main stream & give them jobs as Czars.
You don't win by subtraction. There are enough mainstream Repulicans to dilute the kooks. Creationists etc are not why McCain lost, people were angry at Bush & wanted change

309 midwestgak  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:54:21am

re: #290 Locker

Do you not speak english?

Show some respect, punk.

310 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:54:28am

re: #302 iceweasel

Same here. BTW, I believe Ludwig Van Quixote is another of us.

Not me, though. I just wouldn't vote for McCain because Palin isn't cute enough.

311 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:54:39am

re: #273 Locker

I've not taken the time to read the articles but, there is a whole slew of them about FCBBHO.

[Link: www.medicinenet.com...]

312 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:54:46am

re: #306 DaddyG

Who did ignoramuses without a point accuse people of being like before Hitler came to power?

Genghis Khan, Turks, Vandals

313 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:54:57am

re: #294 Oh no...Sand People!

This is what the above reminds me of:

It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it.--Dan Quayle

But that's just me...

Oh I'm quite aware that anyone who wants single payer is a "socialist" from most conservative voices I hear. So is anyone who is in a union, likes Obama, voted for Obama, likes the color blue, doesn't hate paying taxes, etc.

Just because that term is used to brand and dismiss anyone says something unpopular doesn't make it the case. Single payer is another example.

314 saberry0530  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:55:10am

re: #306 DaddyG

Who did ignoramuses without a point accuse people of being like before Hitler came to power?

Kaiser Wilhelm II

315 KingKenrod  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:55:15am

Crawling through some google searches, it looks like LaRouche supporters have a long history of disrupting public meetings with their idiotic BS.

I don't think it "means something" the LaRouchers show up at these meetings, particularly with all the press attention. It's what they do.

But it does mean something the the move to defeat Obamacare has to contend with these assholes.

316 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:55:16am

re: #300 Honorary Yooper

Agreed. BTW, who is Governor Huntsman? I've not heard of him before.

[Link: www.deseretnews.com...]

He's also the new Ambassador to China.

317 CommonCents  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:55:23am

re: #306 DaddyG

Who did ignoramuses without a point accuse people of being like before Hitler came to power?


I wasn't there but I would guess Ghengis Khan. John F'n Kerry missed the memo in the 70's that he was supposed to stop using Khan and go with Hitler.

318 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:55:23am

re: #310 Cato the Elder

Not me, though. I just wouldn't vote for McCain because Palin isn't cute enough.

Hello, you irascible classicist. ;)

319 NukeAtomrod  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:55:24am

re: #270 iceweasel

Calling LaRouche a Democrat is exactly like the tactic of claiming liberals are 'fascists'-- it is, at best, a complete misunderstanding of what words mean, and at worst (and most often) is an attempt to distort and mislead.

Yeah, ideologically liberals are collectivists. Much closer in their beliefs to communists than fascists. Fascists still have some use for a hobbled free-ish market.

320 Randall Gross  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:55:26am

re: #283 Kenneth

Stalinists called Trotskyites "Social Fascists" and likened them to the Nazis. I'm not sure it is at fruitful to attempt to parse the arcane nomenclature of Leftist labels and slurs. It's enough to know that La Rouche's political philosophy, if it can be called that, is all over the map. It's a weird mixture of extreme left, extreme right, paranoia, and a heavy does of antisemitism.

It is important to know that the one constant regardless of political stance of the moment is ethno nationalism.

321 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:55:32am

re: #293 buzzsawmonkey

I had thought that the quagmire had been filled in by tossing in all the grim milestones.

Heh, I started off by trying to remember when it was that I last held a copy of that paper in my hands. ... I think it was back during Vietnam.

(Life has been wonderful since then)

322 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:55:48am

re: #232 Locker

Single payer isn't socialized medicine by definition, I believe. Socialized medicine is a model where the doctors, etc are employed by the state.

Working as a government contractor isn't being part of the Federal Workforce, but it's the same in almost everything but name.

I was a contractor for the DOE, working at the National Renewable Energy Lab. We followed all rules, dictates, regulations, processes, procedures, you name it. Every aspect of operations was dictated by the Federal government and mimic all the other Federal agencies operations.

It would be the same with private doctors. They would not be officially employed by the Federal government, but they would be under their rules and regulations in toto.

And of course, we know who well medicare and medicaid works now, why would this new burden on the government (and us taxpayers) be any better?

It a difference in a few words, that's all.

323 realwest  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:56:00am

re: #267 Desert Dog
" McCain ran a poor campaign and even I have problems with him, but I cannot see myself voting for a man with Obama's record and tendencies. McCain is not a religious nut, a creationist nor anti-science, is he?"
No he isn't and what is this "record" of Obama's that you write about? I can't ever remember a Republican or Democratic candidate for President of the United State about whom so little was known by the average American.

324 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:56:08am

re: #302 iceweasel

Same here. BTW, I believe Ludwig Van Quixote is another of us.

Defining yourself according to "The Other?"

325 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:56:10am

re: #313 Locker

Oh I'm quite aware that anyone who wants single payer is a "socialist" from most conservative voices I hear. So is anyone who is in a union, likes Obama, voted for Obama, likes the color blue, doesn't hate paying taxes, etc.

Just because that term is used to brand and dismiss anyone says something unpopular doesn't make it the case. Single payer is another example.

Whoa!!! Hold on right there...I got NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING against the color blue.

326 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:56:25am

re: #306 DaddyG

Who did ignoramuses without a point accuse people of being like before Hitler came to power?

Napoleon, Nero, and Attila the Hun were popular subjects. Caligula was a favorite among the more educated.

327 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:56:29am

re: #295 SasquatchOnSteroids

So you voted for a Vice President, not a President.
How's Joe doing these days ?

He's HAWT.

Youtube Video
328 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:56:29am

re: #321 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Heh, I started off by trying to remember when it was that I last held a copy of that paper in my hands. ... I think it was back during Vietnam.

(Life has been wonderful since then)

Out of toilet paper at the time?

329 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:56:31am

re: #309 midwestgak

Show some respect, punk.

Like you did, by calling him a 'punk'?
BTW, he's a vet.

330 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:56:41am

re: #228 opnion

Cato, congratulations. I see you finally made in to the Palin thread in time to call her a hoe(whore.) You must be so proud.

You might as well give me credit for my pun. What I said was, "If Barack Obama is Chance the Gardener, Sarah Palin is...his hoe."

[rimshot]

And yes, she's a whore. I've never met a politician who isn't.

331 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:56:47am

re: #276 realwest

"But wouldn't the Reps stand to gain more? I believe the above list and more are what keep many independents and social lib/fiscal cons "blue dogs?" voters away from the party."
Those voters would no doubt go "third party" and probably hurt whomever the Republican Candidate would be. The Republicans would however, return to their honest roots of small government, individual rights AND obligations, and fiscal responsiblity.

Which are winners with the American people. So what if it costs the conservatives an election cycle or two? Drop the fringe and build to the middle. The momentum would be undeniable. Right now the momentum is going the other way. Oh, how I would love to have a hard choice next election.

332 right_wing2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:56:56am

I may have to wash my mouth out, but probably for the first time, I agree with... Barney Frank. God, I can't believe I just said that.

333 Athos  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:57:21am

re: #326 Shiplord Kirel

Napoleon, Nero, and Attila the Hun were popular subjects. Caligula was a favorite among the more educated.

Let's not forget Hitler's own favorite target...the same one that Cynthia McKinney likes to use all the time...

334 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:57:25am

re: #303 Oh no...Sand People!

Governor of Utah.

Former. He's now Ambassador to China.

335 StillAMarine  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:57:31am

According to WikiPedia, for what it is worth, LaRouche ran in eight elections since 1976, once as a U.S. Labor Party candidate and seven times as a candidate for the Democratic Party nomination.

More evidence that he is, at heart, a Democrat is that LaRouche was sentenced to 15 years' imprisonment in 1988 for conspiracy to commit mail fraud and tax code violations.

336 Flyers1974  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:57:36am

re: #287 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Here's a question for the Lizards, when was the last time you remember seeing the terms grim milestone or quagmire in the NYT?

Probably not since President Obama was elected. But why would they use those terms since that time? Only the most partisan liberals would deny that the NYT is biased towards liberals. On the other hand, I wouldn't expect the Washington Times to treat Obama in an unbiased manner.

337 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:58:18am

re: #295 SasquatchOnSteroids

So you voted for a Vice President, not a President.
How's Joe doing these days ?

The odds of McCain dying in office vs Obama dying in office were a factor.

338 debutaunt  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:58:23am

re: #329 iceweasel

Like you did, by calling him a 'punk'?
BTW, he's a vet.

Sure, let him insult people.

339 Silvergirl  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:58:28am

re: #300 Honorary Yooper

Agreed. BTW, who is Governor Huntsman? I've not heard of him before.

Currently on duty in China. Very cagey of Obama--keeping the competition occupied, though he's the perfect man for the job. I believe he would also be close to perfect as POTUS.

340 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:58:31am

re: #334 Sharmuta

Former. He's now Ambassador to China.

Oops, you are right, a year out of the good ol U.S. will do that to a lizard..

341 Desert Dog  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:58:33am

re: #323 realwest

" McCain ran a poor campaign and even I have problems with him, but I cannot see myself voting for a man with Obama's record and tendencies. McCain is not a religious nut, a creationist nor anti-science, is he?"
No he isn't and what is this "record" of Obama's that you write about? I can't ever remember a Republican or Democratic candidate for President of the United State about whom so little was known by the average American.

Another reason not to vote for him

342 CommonCents  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:58:44am

re: #332 right_wing2

I may have to wash my mouth out, but probably for the first time, I agree with... Barney Frank. God, I can't believe I just said that.

Would you heap praise on a guy batting .010 because he finally got a single or would say, "he still sucks" ?

343 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:58:48am

re: #330 Cato the Elder

You might as well give me credit for my pun. What I said was, "If Barack Obama is Chance the Gardener, Sarah Palin is...his hoe."

[rimshot]

And yes, she's a whore. I've never met a politician who isn't.

Reagan?

344 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:59:02am

re: #328 Kosh's Shadow

Out of toilet paper at the time?

And the Sears catalog was too valuable.

345 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:59:18am

re: #343 Walter L. Newton

Reagan?

Whore.

346 CommonCents  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:59:19am

re: #335 StillAMarine

According to WikiPedia, for what it is worth, LaRouche ran in eight elections since 1976, once as a U.S. Labor Party candidate and seven times as a candidate for the Democratic Party nomination.

More evidence that he is, at heart, a Democrat is that LaRouche was sentenced to 15 years' imprisonment in 1988 for conspiracy to commit mail fraud and tax code violations.

That's cabinet material right there.
/

347 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:59:27am

re: #298 Kosh's Shadow

It means that you still have health "insurance", but the government is the only insurer.

And this gives the government control over what health care you get, and since they can set reimbursement rates, will control indirectly the investment in health care by hospitals, pharmaceutical manufacturers, etc.
And their low rates will probably drive doctors out of the business.

The stuff you are predicting is already the model under the insurance companies.

348 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:59:27am

re: #342 CommonCents

ouch

349 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:59:53am

re: #316 Sharmuta

[Link: www.deseretnews.com...]

He's also the new Ambassador to China.

Looked up his Wiki as well. Seems like a pretty good guy. However, I can see him having the same problems with the evangelical nuts as Romney does, and for the same reason.

But, here's an idea for a ticket: Romney/Huntsman.

350 right_wing2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:00:09am

re: #342 CommonCents

I'm not sure I want to touch that one.

351 CommonCents  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:00:15am

re: #348 itellu3times

ouch

You caught my pun?

352 Desert Dog  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:00:25am

re: #337 Locker

The odds of McCain dying in office vs Obama dying in office were a factor.

So was the gigantic pass the MSM gave Obama...more so than McCain's age, I'd say.

353 Wendya  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:00:25am

re: #171 Gus 802
Recent article I just came across:


Like It or Not, Larouche Cultists Are Aligning With Conservatives on Health Care


Actually, they support John Conyer's single payer plan which was deep sixed. Conyers has an interesting history with the Larouchites. He spoke at one of their Detroit LPAC meetings back in 2005.

354 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:00:28am

I'm at #314 and taking five for a drink and to check on the sick doggie. It's challenging keeping up with so many of you at once.

355 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:00:35am

re: #324 Ben Hur

Defining yourself according to "The Other?"

Uh, no, defining myself along some lines already provided.

You, on the other hand, appear to be eager to identify and hunt down the 'other'-- and in that group you seem to include people who are socially liberal and fiscally conservative.

Want some torches and pitchforks? I can sell them to you, since I'm not a commie. ;)

356 Irish Rose  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:00:50am

re: #330 Cato the Elder

You might as well give me credit for my pun. What I said was, "If Barack Obama is Chance the Gardener, Sarah Palin is...his hoe."

[rimshot]

And yes, she's a whore. I've never met a politician who isn't.

Honestly, Cato... do you make comments like that just to be inflammatory, or do you actually believe what you say?

357 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:00:58am

re: #349 Honorary Yooper

Looked up his Wiki as well. Seems like a pretty good guy. However, I can see him having the same problems with the evangelical nuts as Romney does, and for the same reason.

But, here's an idea for a ticket: Romney/Huntsman.

Bwaaahaaahaaa! The south would march on Utah...

/?

358 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:01:03am

re: #331 Coracle

Which are winners with the American people. So what if it costs the conservatives an election cycle or two? Drop the fringe and build to the middle. The momentum would be undeniable. Right now the momentum is going the other way. Oh, how I would love to have a hard choice next election.

You're right- those issues are winners with the American public. I think more moderate so-cons would stay if we moved away from the RR. It's the theocrats pushing creationism we need to ditch. And the ron paul weirdos. We only stand to gain more rational people by ditching the kooks.

359 avanti  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:01:16am

re: #302 iceweasel

Same here. BTW, I believe Ludwig Van Quixote is another of us.

Me too, and my beat friend moved over to Obama with the Palin pick.

360 Desert Dog  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:01:17am

re: #356 Irish Rose

Honestly, Cato... do you make comments like that just to be inflammatory, or do you actually believe what you say?

I vote for both

361 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:01:21am

re: #349 Honorary Yooper

But, here's an idea for a ticket: Romney/Huntsman.

Sounds like one of those 1930's touring cars with the straight-8 engines and leather hood straps.

362 DaddyG  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:01:32am

re: #347 Locker

The stuff you are predicting is already the model under the insurance companies.

I can fire an insurance company and get another one. So can my employer.

Ever try to fire the Post office or the IRS when you didn't get the service you wanted?

363 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:01:35am

re: #355 iceweasel

Uh, no, defining myself along some lines already provided.

You, on the other hand, appear to be eager to identify and hunt down the 'other'-- and in that group you seem to include people who are socially liberal and fiscally conservative.

Want some torches and pitchforks? I can sell them to you, since I'm not a commie. ;)

I'm not hunting anyone.

I worry about myself.

Just making sure (snarkily) you live by your lectures.

364 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:01:35am

re: #313 Locker

Oh I'm quite aware that anyone who wants single payer is a "socialist" from most conservative voices I hear. So is anyone who is in a union, likes Obama, voted for Obama, likes the color blue, doesn't hate paying taxes, etc.

Just because that term is used to brand and dismiss anyone says something unpopular doesn't make it the case. Single payer is another example.

Locker, Single payer is indeed Socialism. If the government controls payment to medical providers they in effect set all ofthe rules, what is & is not coverd & when treatment is denied etc .
No matter who does or does not like it, it is Socialism.

365 Irish Rose  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:01:41am

re: #332 right_wing2

I may have to wash my mouth out, but probably for the first time, I agree with... Barney Frank. God, I can't believe I just said that.

Me either.
I think I need a shower.

366 Mad Mullah  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:01:51am

I don't like Barney Frank at all, but I did recently support the online poker bill, because I believe that the attempts to ban poker are idiotic and un-American.

367 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:01:53am

re: #347 Locker

The stuff you are predicting is already the model under the insurance companies.

Except that under the federal government taxpayers will be paying for all of it. Under the insurance companies, you have the freedom to be part of the plan or not, and pay or not.

In the federal proposal, you will either be part of some plan, or pay a fine of 2.5 percent of your adjusted gross income every year.

That's an insurance company model? Forcing you to pay something even if you don't want it?

368 Ben Hur  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:01:57am

BBL

369 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:02:02am

re: #333 Athos

Let's not forget Hitler's own favorite target...the same one that Cynthia McKinney likes to use all the time...

Ah, yes, the one-size-fits-all historical villains, the Juice. They are an ideal target for unscrupulous demogogues, since there are enough of them for generalized characterizations, but not so many that they can band together and hang you from the nearest lamppost.

370 DaddyG  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:02:21am

re: #349 Honorary Yooper

Looked up his Wiki as well. Seems like a pretty good guy. However, I can see him having the same problems with the evangelical nuts as Romney does, and for the same reason.

But, here's an idea for a ticket: Romney/Huntsman.


You get Mo-Mo With Hunt and Ro!

371 Silvergirl  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:02:26am

re: #330 Cato the Elder

You might as well give me credit for my pun. What I said was, "If Barack Obama is Chance the Gardener, Sarah Palin is...his hoe."

[rimshot]

And yes, she's a whore. I've never met a politician who isn't.

I'll be looking for you to apply that epithet to other politicians in the future. I haven't seen it yet, though I haven't been around here that long and don't catch all your posts.

372 realwest  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:02:29am

re: #298 Kosh's Shadow
"And their low rates will probably drive doctors out of the business."
OTOH, that could be a backhanded way to achieve Tort Reform - if a doctor is an agent of the State itself, then that doctor would receive the "Sovereign Immunity" which the State has, would he/she not?

373 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:02:38am

re: #359 avanti

Me too, and my beat friend moved over to Obama with the Palin pick.

I don't want to ask what a "beat friend" is. Probably refers to some sick liberal practice.

374 Leonidas Hoplite  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:03:07am

re: #287 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Here's a question for the Lizards, when was the last time you remember seeing the terms grim milestone or quagmire in the NYT?

Hmmm, before the Betrayus ad? Not so much since?

375 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:03:10am

Larouche web says:

There is a threat to President Obama from the British, who are angry at his failure to bring fascism to America.

Just where is James Bond anyway?

376 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:03:17am

re: #308 opnion

Real, you don't see the Democrats purging their extreme elements.
Hell they consider their extremists to be main stream & give them jobs as Czars.
You don't win by subtraction. There are enough mainstream Repulicans to dilute the kooks. Creationists etc are not why McCain lost, people were angry at Bush & wanted change

Extreme elements do not hurt a broad spectrum majority, as long as they don't alienate the party's most conservative elements. On the other hand, you do see the internecine conflict within the Democratic tent exemplified today in the healthcare debate.

377 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:03:19am

re: #330 Cato the Elder

You might as well give me credit for my pun. What I said was, "If Barack Obama is Chance the Gardener, Sarah Palin is...his hoe."

[rimshot]

And yes, she's a whore. I've never met a politician who isn't.


No,, I got the joke, it was just tasteless. Dude you have a serious issue with Palin.

378 gonecamping  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:03:25am

Perhaps a 'new' party label can be developed to lump all the nutjobs in, something that is not derogatory to either Rep or Dem.
An example could be "The Lunatic Fringe Party'' (cue up Red Ryder)

re: #53 Pianobuff

I agree with you. Now could you just convince the MSM?

379 NukeAtomrod  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:03:35am

re: #261 Locker

This hits home for me. It's almost entirely the social views you listed above which keep me from supporting a majority of Republican candidates. I was very happy when McCain won the nomination.

I was seriously considering voting for him until he chose Sarah Palin as his running mate. That pretty much destroyed his chances with me and almost every other moderate and independent I converse with and I feel he did it to appeal to a base he already had voting for him cause they were NOT going to vote for Obama.

So McCain didn't appeal to the Evangelical wing of the GOP because he was weak on social issues, and he didn't appeal to the conservative wing because he wasn't interested in reducing the size of government, and he didn't appeal to the National Security wing because his position was indistinguishable from Obama...

Gee. I wonder why he lost?

380 JohnnyReb  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:03:41am

re: #372 realwest

"And their low rates will probably drive doctors out of the business."
OTOH, that could be a backhanded way to achieve Tort Reform - if a doctor is an agent of the State itself, then that doctor would receive the "Sovereign Immunity" which the State has, would he/she not?

Nope. They don't get it under Medicare now, so nothing would change with single payer.

381 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:03:48am
382 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:03:50am

re: #347 Locker

The stuff you are predicting is already the model under the insurance companies.

But there is more than one insurance company to chose from. Employers tend to find a cheap one, but still, one that their employees would actually want.
And then, you have the government's insurance regulators and the courts to back you up, at least to some extent.

One payer who also is in charge of regulation? That's a Soviet system, doomed to abuses.

383 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:03:52am

re: #373 Kenneth

I don't want to ask what a "beat friend" is. Probably refers to some sick liberal practice.

"a mutiny of preverts..."

384 Silvergirl  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:04:00am

re: #349 Honorary Yooper

Looked up his Wiki as well. Seems like a pretty good guy. However, I can see him having the same problems with the evangelical nuts as Romney does, and for the same reason.

But, here's an idea for a ticket: Romney/Huntsman.

Two Mormons? I fear the voters may be too bigoted for even one.

385 Athos  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:04:27am

re: #335 StillAMarine

More evidence that he is, at heart, a Democrat is that LaRouche was sentenced to 15 years' imprisonment in 1988 for conspiracy to commit mail fraud and tax code violations.

No, LaRouche is nothing but a fringe political whacko / cult leader who is proof that the political definitions aren't linear but circular as he embraces both the extreme left and extreme right. He locked onto the Dems for simple expedience since the Lee Atwater / Ronald Reagan Republican Party of that time would have tossed him out as hard as they tossed the Birchers. His entire position starts from contrarianism - which in that time meant associating with the Dems. As previous posts established - the DNC wanted nothing to do with him.

386 CommonCents  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:04:43am

re: #373 Kenneth

I don't want to ask what a "beat friend" is. Probably refers to some sick liberal practice.

And on a Barney Frank thread no less. That's just gross.

387 realwest  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:04:50am

re: #308 opnion
Ah, yes, but please re-read my #276; the extreme Left became the Democratic Party, mostly out of political expediency (they wanted to win in '08 very badly indeed).

388 BlueCanuck  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:04:54am

re: #377 opnion

No,, I got the joke, it was just tasteless. Dude you have a serious issue with Palin.

He wallows in his derangement. I try to keep him in my GAZE file...

389 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:05:01am

re: #375 experiencedtraveller

Larouche web says:


There is a threat to President Obama from the British, who are angry at his failure to bring fascism to America.

Just where is James Bond anyway?

People who have studied La Rouche have noted, when he says "British" he means The World Jewish Conspiracy.

390 Desert Dog  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:05:06am

re: #379 NukeAtomrod

So McCain didn't appeal to the Evangelical wing of the GOP because he was weak on social issues, and he didn't appeal to the conservative wing because he wasn't interested in reducing the size of government, and he didn't appeal to the National Security wing because his position was indistinguishable from Obama...

Gee. I wonder why he lost?

The MSM just loved him though...he was the greatest, best candidate available...until he got nominated...then, he sucked bad.

391 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:05:17am

re: #376 Coracle

Extreme elements do not hurt a broad spectrum majority, as long as they don't alienate the party's most conservative elements. On the other hand, you do see the internecine conflict within the Democratic tent exemplified today in the healthcare debate.

Good analysis.

392 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:05:18am

re: #373 Kenneth

I don't want to ask what a "beat friend" is. Probably refers to some sick liberal practice.

*thud*

ROFLMAO!

393 albusteve  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:05:28am

re: #329 iceweasel

Like you did, by calling him a 'punk'?
BTW, he's a vet.

like you did calling Buzz a shit slinging monkey?

394 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:05:40am

re: #384 Silvergirl

Two Mormons?

Hmm.

395 midwestgak  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:05:45am

re: #329 iceweasel

Like you did, by calling him a 'punk'?
BTW, he's a vet.

I called him a punk because his is behaving like a punk. Disrepecting a long-time lizard with a snark comment is unacceptable. Locker is new to LGF. What gall.

Being a vet means he should get a pass no matter what his comment? Bullshit.

396 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:06:06am

re: #389 Kenneth

People who have studied La Rouche have noted, when he says "British" he means The World Jewish Conspiracy.

Indeed.

397 Wendya  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:06:18am

re: #367 Walter L. Newton

Except that under the federal government taxpayers will be paying for all of it. Under the insurance companies, you have the freedom to be part of the plan or not, and pay or not.

In the federal proposal, you will either be part of some plan, or pay a fine of 2.5 percent of your adjusted gross income every year.

That's an insurance company model? Forcing you to pay something even if you don't want it?

I find the concept of the government forcing me to purchase a private product or service under a 2.5% AGI penalty beyond the pale.

398 Irish Rose  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:06:18am

re: #379 NukeAtomrod

So McCain didn't appeal to the Evangelical wing of the GOP because he was weak on social issues, and he didn't appeal to the conservative wing because he wasn't interested in reducing the size of government, and he didn't appeal to the National Security wing because his position was indistinguishable from Obama...

Gee. I wonder why he lost?

Because he's a RINO.
///

399 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:06:19am

re: #371 Silvergirl

I'll be looking for you to apply that epithet to other politicians in the future. I haven't seen it yet, though I haven't been around here that long and don't catch all your posts.

He doesn't , It is some weird Palin fixation.

400 Silvergirl  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:06:32am

re: #373 Kenneth

I don't want to ask what a "beat friend" is. Probably refers to some sick liberal practice.

It appears to be a typo for best since the 'a' and the 's' are neighbors on the keyboard.

Or else the friend is a Kerouac fan.

401 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:06:55am

re: #356 Irish Rose

Honestly, Cato... do you make comments like that just to be inflammatory, or do you actually believe what you say?

I'm just trying to give you something else to focus on besides the loons at Deuce. You can thank me later.

402 Dianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:07:21am

re: #365 Irish Rose

Me either.
I think I need a shower.

It's all right - I think a lot of us have trouble remembering the last time we agreed with Barney Frank.

I think it's when he came back from Davos and complained about the producer or talking head who claimed American troops were targeting reporters, and that was way back in 2004 or 2005 or something.

403 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:07:28am

re: #387 realwest

Ah, yes, but please re-read my #276; the extreme Left became the Democratic Party, mostly out of political expediency (they wanted to win in '08 very badly indeed).

Ya know, I'lll go back up & read it, Icould have missed your meaning.

404 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:07:36am

re: #384 Silvergirl

Two Mormons? I fear the voters may be too bigoted for even one.

And you know- I kind of like the idea of pushing for one on the ticket for just that reason. If the people who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Romney because he's a Mormon really wanted to defeat a man who, at this time anyways, seems to be the fisc-con go-to guy, then perhaps they should. In 2012, this country will likely flock to a fiscal message, and if religious bigotry could prevent a fisc-con winning... I'd like to know if that's what the party has become.

405 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:07:52am

Have a great day, Lizards!


Youtube Video
406 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:08:13am

re: #377 opnion

No,, I got the joke, it was just tasteless. Dude you have a serious issue with Palin.

Yeah, the notion of someone with less wit than Gomer Pyle almost getting to be a heartbeat away from the Oval Office gives me heartburn.

407 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:08:17am

re: #330 Cato the Elder

You might as well give me credit for my pun. What I said was, "If Barack Obama is Chance the Gardener, Sarah Palin is...his hoe."

[rimshot]

And yes, she's a whore. I've never met a politician who isn't.

Cato, I like you loads and agree with you on many things, and I certainly share your distaste for Palin. I have a potty-mouth myself and a love for the filthy turn of phrase.

But some of your Palin jokes go over the line, IMO. I agree all politicians are whores, but you're too smart and frankly too good a person not to realise that using the word 'ho' or 'whore' or 'hoe' in reference to a female pol carries a lot of baggage. I don't think it reflects who you really are as a person; you're better and more clever than that.

And I'm surely not the only female poster here, regardless of ideological identification, who finds that kind of phrasing distasteful.

Just my opinion and all. Sorry if it sounded like a lecture, I don't mean it to be.

408 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:08:18am

Delightful toys from the Arab world

409 right_wing2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:08:19am

re: #359 avanti

Beat friend= Maynard G Krebs

410 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:08:22am

re: #373 Kenneth

I don't want to ask what a "beat friend" is. Probably refers to some sick liberal practice.

Get your mind out of the gutter. Obviously talking about poetry.

411 DaddyG  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:08:40am

re: #384 Silvergirl

Two Mormons? I fear the voters may be too bigoted for even one.

Imagine the size of the campaign bus they would need to fit all the wives and kids. /

412 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:09:11am

re: #389 Kenneth

People who have studied La Rouche have noted, when he says "British" he means The World Jewish Conspiracy.

Really? Ha! I didn't know the Queen was Jewish...

413 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:09:19am

A broken clock is right twice a day. This is Barney Frank's "broken clock" moment. This gay Member of Congress permitted a close male friend to operate a gay prostitution ring out of his house. He was a central player in engineering the recent credit meltdown. And he's unapologetic in finger-pointing at others for the whole debacle.

Frank is very clever, and a dangerous adversary. As far as he's concerned, I'd call his encounter with a LaRouche nutjob "rough justice".

414 realwest  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:09:19am

re: #331 Coracle
I would ordinarily agree with you, but I feel that the "momentum" as it were, is starting to flow the other way.
And it's the Dems own fault; their sheer arrogance has turned a lot of voters off - see all the latest polls.

415 right_wing2  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:09:22am

re: #406 Cato the Elder

Barack Obama being in the Oval Office gives me heartburn, too.

416 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:09:24am

re: #372 realwest

"And their low rates will probably drive doctors out of the business."
OTOH, that could be a backhanded way to achieve Tort Reform - if a doctor is an agent of the State itself, then that doctor would receive the "Sovereign Immunity" which the State has, would he/she not?

No. My wife is a public defender; similar position to the doctors in a single-payer system. She still needs malpractice insurance and is liable for her errors.
I'd see the doctors having the same problem, and worse - if they wanted a test or procedure that they thought was necessary, and it really was, but the government disagreed, and they didn't order it because it would hurt their income or the patient couldn't afford to pay on his own (if that were allowed), the doctor could still get sued for not ordering it.
He'd get screwed either way.

417 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:09:31am

re: #406 Cato the Elder

Yeah, the notion of someone with less wit than Gomer Pyle almost getting to be a heartbeat away from the Oval Office gives me heartburn.

So what do you really think of Joe Biden?

418 Wendya  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:09:45am

re: #395 midwestgak

Being a vet means he should get a pass no matter what his comment? Bullshit.

There are a lot of vets on this site. That doesn't give us a free pass on everything we say.

419 Wendya  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:10:48am

re: #406 Cato the Elder

Yeah, the notion of someone with less wit than Gomer Pyle almost getting to be a heartbeat away from the Oval Office gives me heartburn.

So that's why you didn't run?

420 Irish Rose  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:10:52am

re: #401 Cato the Elder

I'm just trying to give you something else to focus on besides the loons at Deuce. You can thank me later.

What I choose to focus on is really none of your concern, Cato.

421 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:11:18am

re: #418 Wendya

There are a lot of vets on this site. That doesn't give us a free pass on everything we say.

There are no free passes on this site, I believe. Maybe.

422 realwest  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:11:30am

re: #337 Locker
I know what your saying about the odds of McCain vs Obama dying in office and would have some solace in that IF Obama had released all of his medical records the way McCain did, instead of a one page letter from his doctor.

423 gerschor  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:11:48am

Now show us a video of Barney Frank scolding someone with a BushHitler sign.

424 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:11:49am

re: #410 Coracle

Get your mind out of the gutter. Obviously talking about poetry.

I would've Sade that "beat friend" referred to something else.

425 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:11:52am

Transvestite cult baffles religious leaders


Thousands of devotees are now dressing up as Radha - the goddess lover of Krishna - like retired railwayman V K Saxena, 72.

"I can't put it into words properly but I feel more holy dressed as a woman," said Saxena of New Delhi.

"The Lord told me he wanted me as his bride."

But the cult has astonished traditional religious leaders.

Senior priest Mohammad Ahangar said: "There are many ways to be closer to the Lord without trying to be his girlfriend."

426 DaddyG  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:12:00am

re: #409 right_wing2

Beat friend= Maynard G Krebs

Upding for the Dobie Gillis reference.

427 Silvergirl  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:12:00am

re: #406 Cato the Elder

Yeah, the notion of someone with less wit than Gomer Pyle almost getting to be a heartbeat away from the Oval Office gives me heartburn.

Can't a guy with your command of the language come up with something better than that tired old chant from the campaign?

428 VegasRick  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:12:32am

re: #345 Cato the Elder

Whore.

Fuck you.

429 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:12:32am

re: #406 Cato the Elder

Yeah, the notion of someone with less wit than Gomer Pyle almost getting to be a heartbeat away from the Oval Office gives me heartburn.

Your stomach must be in an uproar every day. Have some zantac.

430 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:13:05am

MPACUK supports piracy...
Somali Pirates or Eco Warriors & Freedom Fighters?


You often hear the media demonise Muslim Somali 'Pirates', but what you do not often hear is why these men have taken up arms to stop the dumping of toxic waste on their shores. Perhaps the American, French and British gun boats killing these men, should address the evil that caused these men to take to the seas in the first place.

The question is: are they pirates or freedom fighters...or maybe both?

A 25-year-old Somali pirate has told the BBC's Mohamed Olad Hassan by telephone from the notorious den of Harardhere in central Somalia why he became a sea bandit. Dahir Mohamed Hayeysi says he and his big-spending accomplices are seen by many as heroes.

431 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:13:14am

re: #411 DaddyG

Imagine the size of the campaign bus they would need to fit all the wives and kids. /

Yo Daddy G., You might have a minor interest in this.

It's my concept art that I did and am currently doing for a book series I am working on... my target audience is about ... well... very narrow, but I am pretty excited about it. It will be pretty controversial, amongst our inner circle that is, but I gotta do what I gotta do! You may be able to piece an idea about a few of the concepts...but I think I have a unique concept on my hands...(my music sucks turn down your audio...)

432 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:13:20am

re: #406 Cato the Elder

/but enough about Joe Biden. /thanks... i'll be here all afternoon!

433 McSpiff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:13:30am

Question from an uninformed canadian:

Most Canadians have supplemental insurance, from their employer. However, my university's student union also offers insurance to students. Would such an arrangement be common in the states? To have insurance offered through something like a student union.

434 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:13:48am

Zombies would most likely wipe out humanity if they really existed, claim scientists

Civilisation would most likely be finished in the event of a zombie outbreak, claim Canadian mathematicians who have calculated the possible devastation caused by an attack by the fictional monsters.

Using models developed to calculate the effects of more plausible pandemics, the team from the University of Ottawa have discovered that unless man struck back quickly and aggressively then they would be doomed.

The scientific paper, which is published in a book “Infectious Diseases Modelling Research Progress”, looks at an attack by the undead creatures, who infect the living with a bite.

In their study, titled When Zombies Attack!, the researchers picked “classic” slow-moving zombies such as those in Dawn of the Dead as models and divided humanity into three: the living, zombies and the “removed” – zombies who had been killed by decapitation.

They concluded there was no point trying to cure those infected or live with them - the best thing was to destroy them as quickly as possible.

“A zombie outbreak is likely to lead to the collapse of civilisation, unless it is dealt with quickly,” they write in the book

“While aggressive quarantine may contain the epidemic, or a cure may lead to coexistence of humans and zombies, the most effective way to contain the rise of the undead is to hit hard and hit often.

Thread worthy!

435 realwest  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:13:58am

re: #416 Kosh's Shadow
Wow - I didn't know that Public Defender's needed malpractice insurance! Thanks for that bit of enlightenment!
I reckon they'd what, be sued for malpractice by the people who'd been convicted by a jury and sentenced by a Judge?
Most Public Defender's don't take on civil litigation because their criminal case load is so heavy.
Still, a good observation. Thanks.

436 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:14:02am

re: #372 realwest

Obama has specifically said that tort reform for physicians is not on the table. That's because the trial lawyers are major contributors to the Democratic Party.

437 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:14:02am

re: #395 midwestgak

I called him a punk because his is behaving like a punk. Disrepecting a long-time lizard with a snark comment is unacceptable. Locker is new to LGF. What gall.

Bah. I find these double standards distasteful. It's one thing if people want to hold new lizards to the same standards as everyone-- that's normal, that's the community.

It's something else entirely when people get pissy because 'you insulted a long term lizard!"
Sorry, insults are insults. They don't become kisses because the person adminstering them is a 'long-time lizard'. And they don't become somehow worse because the person using them is new.

438 theheat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:14:27am

re: #407 iceweasel

I agree most politicians are whores. I laughed my butt off when the local radio station called the Somali pirates whores. But, as a female, I don't dig on calling a woman politician a whore - Pelsoi, Palin, Hillary - none of them. Somehow, that's a notch below bitch, bitchy, the casual reference as a [fellow] broad... Whore is pretty degrading when targeted toward a single female, and not a concept of being whorish (as a group of politicians).

The term makes me squirm. Sorry.

439 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:14:37am

re: #425 Killgore Trout

Transvestite cult baffles religious leaders

*GASP*
What a Shakti !

440 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:14:40am

re: #412 experiencedtraveller

Really? Ha! I didn't know the Queen was Jewish...

According to La Rouche she is. And a reptilian alien.

441 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:14:42am

re: #329 iceweasel

Like you did, by calling him a 'punk'?
BTW, he's a vet.

Hey woman, when I posted a comment about Obama the other day & his BAIPA votes you said , "That is a lie & a distortion." I"m a vet & in so many words you called me a liar.
What's the difference here?

442 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:14:55am

Deer Loves The Cat

Liveleak Video
443 Lincolntf  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:14:55am

re: #434 Kenneth

When they came for the Zombies, I did nothing...

444 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:14:59am

re: #407 iceweasel

Cato, I like you loads and agree with you on many things, and I certainly share your distaste for Palin. I have a potty-mouth myself and a love for the filthy turn of phrase.

But some of your Palin jokes go over the line, IMO. I agree all politicians are whores, but you're too smart and frankly too good a person not to realise that using the word 'ho' or 'whore' or 'hoe' in reference to a female pol carries a lot of baggage. I don't think it reflects who you really are as a person; you're better and more clever than that.

And I'm surely not the only female poster here, regardless of ideological identification, who finds that kind of phrasing distasteful.

Just my opinion and all. Sorry if it sounded like a lecture, I don't mean it to be.

I have no more respect for women than I do for humans in general. Also no less.

Scarab Railin gets no slack from me because of her genitalia.

Presidents I have known:

Eisenhower
Kennedy
Johnson
Nixon
Ford
Carter
Reagan
Bush
Clinton
Bush
Obama

All whores, and that goes double for their veeps (how much of a whore do you have to be to settle for a symbolic office when you wanted to be The Boss?).

And anyone who wants to be president is a whore by definition. All the rest is just haggling over price.

445 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:15:14am

re: #414 realwest

I would ordinarily agree with you, but I feel that the "momentum" as it were, is starting to flow the other way.
And it's the Dems own fault; their sheer arrogance has turned a lot of voters off - see all the latest polls.

I have no use for daily/weekly/monthly tracking polls. Public memory is maximum 6 months long, and I think it's been getting worse in the last decade. Nothing that happens now short of an utter meltdown by either side is going to matter much pro or con for election '10 or '12 except a few ill remembered tag lines.

446 Irish Rose  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:15:15am

re: #429 Alouette

Your stomach must be in an uproar every day. Have some zantac.

If I didn't know better, I'd think that elder Cato is deliberately fishing for an administrative action.

447 zombie  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:15:19am

One of the benefits of being an LGFer is that sometime you get to see things first -- a sneak peek at upcoming brouhahas.

And this is one of those times!

VOLUNTEERS NEEDED!

Here is my latest upcoming zomblog report:

Death Threats Against Bush at Protests Ignored for Years

Give it a look and tell me:

How can it be improved? Any comments, suggestion, criticisms?

Don't be afraid to be harsh: I want to give this a "trial by fire" here in this thread before unleashing it into the wild and wolly world of the Internet. However harsh you may be, it won't compare to the harsh treatment this is going to get at the hands of leftist blogosphere.

So let me have it! Tell me where the report could be improved.

Thanks!

448 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:15:20am

re: #430 Killgore Trout

MPACUK supports piracy...
Somali Pirates or Eco Warriors & Freedom Fighters?

Perhaps the American, French and British gun boats killing these men, should address the evil that caused these men to take to the seas in the first place.

Everytime we do, they say we're cowboys for going in with guns blazing.

/please note that my ideas for addressing the problems might not coincide with their ideas

449 Dianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:15:23am

re: #430 Killgore Trout

MPACUK supports piracy...
Somali Pirates or Eco Warriors & Freedom Fighters?

Piracy for fun, profit and saving the world?

450 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:15:57am

re: #417 Honorary Yooper

So what do you really think of Joe Biden?

Whore.

451 avanti  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:15:58am

re: #373 Kenneth

I don't want to ask what a "beat friend" is. Probably refers to some sick liberal practice.

Yes, we are into M&M. :)

452 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:15:59am

re: #397 Wendya

I find the concept of the government forcing me to purchase a private product or service under a 2.5% AGI penalty beyond the pale.

Most of the progressives think it's fine.

453 realwest  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:16:06am

Well I'm outta here folks - hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all later on!

454 ~Fianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:16:10am

re: #re: #259 debutaunt

Then what is single payer?

132 taxfreekiller

Ron Pauls base is over the top anti war under 30 Democrats not happy
with the elected Democrats not cutting off spending for the war in Iraq.
The balance is his core nut root Libertarians.

less than 5% of his national vote base are Republicans.

Fully socialized medicine is what the UK has, and by all accounts, it's fairly terrible. In the UK, medical professionals work directly for the government, hospitals and clinics, etc are government owned and you have no other options. Treatments are scheduled and approved from the top, not by the doctors.

In a single-payer system, which is what they have versions of in Germany, Canada and France, to name a few countries, the government foots the bill for insurance or sets a compensation schedule for doctors and hospitals. In some of those countries (Germany, I believe) you have the option to buy increased coverage as well, like our Medicare supplement plans. In all of those countries, you chose your own doctors and hospitals and aside from general regulations on sanitary measures and patient safety, doctors have the freedom to practice as they see fit.

In American terms, it's the difference between the VA hospital system and Medicare.

455 snowcrash  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:16:14am

re: #434 Kenneth
Time to stockpile flamethrowers and chainsaws!

456 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:16:23am
457 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:16:27am

re: #435 realwest

Wow - I didn't know that Public Defender's needed malpractice insurance! Thanks for that bit of enlightenment!
I reckon they'd what, be sued for malpractice by the people who'd been convicted by a jury and sentenced by a Judge?
Most Public Defender's don't take on civil litigation because their criminal case load is so heavy.
Still, a good observation. Thanks.

Yes, exactly. And some prisoners, with nothing but time on their hands, will pull sh*t like this. I understand the insurers fight it, but it still costs them some money.

458 Dianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:16:29am

re: #434 Kenneth

Zombies would most likely wipe out humanity if they really existed, claim scientists

Thread worthy!

Someone let Max Brooks know. This will be great for him!

459 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:16:32am

re: #433 McSpiff

Virtually all U.S. colleges and universities have a student health service, similar to a free clinic. All students get access to the clinic free of charge.

Of course, many students complain that all these clinics do is distribute free condoms and aspirin! Could this be the future of ObamaCare?

460 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:16:43am

re: #434 Kenneth

Zombies would most likely wipe out humanity if they really existed, claim scientists


Thread worthy!

Read World War Z by Max Brooks, Mel Brooks son.

461 Irish Rose  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:16:55am

re: #437 iceweasel

Bah. I find these double standards distasteful. It's one thing if people want to hold new lizards to the same standards as everyone-- that's normal, that's the community.

It's something else entirely when people get pissy because 'you insulted a long term lizard!"
Sorry, insults are insults. They don't become kisses because the person adminstering them is a 'long-time lizard'. And they don't become somehow worse because the person using them is new.

Well stated.

462 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:17:03am

re: #440 Kenneth

According to La Rouche she is. And a reptilian alien.

The Queen and Charles are relatives?
///

463 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:17:10am

re: #433 McSpiff

Question from an uninformed canadian:

Most Canadians have supplemental insurance, from their employer. However, my university's student union also offers insurance to students. Would such an arrangement be common in the states? To have insurance offered through something like a student union.

While in college, my insurance was the University's plan.

464 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:17:12am

re: #444 Cato the Elder

And anyone who wants to be president is a whore by definition. All the rest is just haggling over price.

OK, so by your definition, George Washington is also a whore, am I correct?

465 KenJen  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:17:12am

re: #434 Kenneth

I hope they are the slow zombies. The speedy ones in 28 Days Later were scary.

466 Greengolem64  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:17:16am

re: #20 ckb

Despite her being a nutty LaRouche supporter, Frank should have reponded in a civil manner and not with an ad-hominem attack.

I hope you rethink your comment Charles - and I hope you would have handled the same question in a professional manner were you in the same position.

She is one of his constituents, and insulting anyone is never the right answer. This is raising the level of the debate? I expected more from Frank, but he continually disappoints. So much for being "smart".

Couldn't agree more...and sad to see 'the usual suspects' all down-dinging you. Lots of hypocrisy in this thread.

Either it's ok to 'get all loud and in there face' for either side, or it's not.

I'm a native New Englander and if you think town halls are all Milk, cookies, and Roberts Rules of Order then you are sorely mistaken.

The 'loons' aside, folks ARE getting pissed...look at 'how' many of the 'normal people' are acting and speaking in these THM's...they are not polished and poised...they are every day folks who are fed-up enough to finally go have a say. Most people dread standing up in front of a crowd...let alone throwing News cameras into the mix...

Ad-hominem attacks on any side are never good...but having our legislators sinking to that level...well, you get what you ask for.

Sure hope there are some promising new candidates on ANY side of the fence in 2010. What's there now certainly isn't cutting it.

GG

467 Wendya  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:17:16am

re: #434 Kenneth

Zombies would most likely wipe out humanity if they really existed, claim scientists

Thread worthy!

But was the paper peer reviewed?

468 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:17:31am

re: #423 gerschor

Now show us a video of Barney Frank scolding someone with a BushHitler sign.

BTDT upthread. Show me where Frank was interacting with such a person in any venue, anywhere.

469 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:17:37am

re: #433 McSpiff

Question from an uninformed canadian:

Most Canadians have supplemental insurance, from their employer. However, my university's student union also offers insurance to students. Would such an arrangement be common in the states? To have insurance offered through something like a student union.

No. Not as a university student but as a grad student (older, potential employee, often a TA)

BTW, this is why one of the proposals in the US legislation is extending the age you can carry kids on your health insurance until 26-- it would insure they remained covered throughout college and some post grad work.

470 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:18:15am

re: #322 Walter L. Newton

Working as a government contractor isn't being part of the Federal Workforce, but it's the same in almost everything but name.

I was a contractor for the DOE, working at the National Renewable Energy Lab. We followed all rules, dictates, regulations, processes, procedures, you name it. Every aspect of operations was dictated by the Federal government and mimic all the other Federal agencies operations.

It would be the same with private doctors. They would not be officially employed by the Federal government, but they would be under their rules and regulations in toto.

And of course, we know who well medicare and medicaid works now, why would this new burden on the government (and us taxpayers) be any better?

It a difference in a few words, that's all.

I respectfully disagree with your "would be"s. Medicare works great it just needs to be funded. People really like it. Remember, this is about health care and most people that ARE interested in helping people aren't really going to be swayed by the money, waste, government is evil argument and I'll tell you why.

The equivalent of "waste" in government is "profit" in private industry. Yes, there is waste in government, there are individuals who are lazy. But the entire system doesn't exist and rabidly strive to provide the least amount of health care for the most amount of profits.

This is the case with insurance companies. I would MUCH rather trust my health care and the health care of my children etc to a system whole stated goal is to help not make money. Motivation is very, very important to me.

I have thought about this a great deal. The arguments regarding "what's next? when does it stop" are not dismissed in my mind. I worry about it, seriously. Regardless of how you may label me I like and enjoy regulated capitalism and I don't want government involvement to "go to far" etc.

The fire department example is what I always come back to with regard to health care. If I have a fire and call 911 I don't want my balance sheet checked before they decide to even put the fire out and I don't want to have to declare bankruptcy to pay for the fire trucks, etc. I want fire fighters focused on the fire and I want health care focused on health, not on money.

Yes, I'm willing to pay for it. I know lots and lots of you are not and I completely respect your feelings. I feel the same way about faith based initiatives. That's the good and the hard about a nation, compromise.

471 theheat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:18:25am

re: #434 Kenneth

As a horror movie buff and armchair expert of all things zombie, the MFs don't stand a chance against me. I'm ready. Seriously, I can do some extreme zombie damage when the time comes.

//

472 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:18:29am

re: #444 Cato the Elder

And anyone who wants to be president is a whore by definition. All the rest is just haggling over price.

And by your standard, you are what, a vestal virgin?

You really should climb down off your high horse now and then.

473 DaddyG  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:18:42am

re: #431 Oh no...Sand People!

My son would love that. He's into anime and your illustrations seem to fit his style. I am intrigued by your statements. If it is doctrinal but not cultural you may find some controversy among the traditionalists but that shouldn't make you hesitate.

474 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:18:47am

re: #465 KenJen

I hope they are the slow zombies. The speedy ones in 28 Days Later were scary.

Not zombies really, just infected.

475 Irish Rose  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:18:52am

re: #453 realwest

Well I'm outta here folks - hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all later on!

Bye real, have a good day.

476 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:19:13am

A Canadian physician who's a friend of mine tells me the Canadian government's single payer system has budgeted a specific annual sum for payment to him for his health care services. When the money runs out, he takes the rest of the year off. Generally, the government money runs out in October.

Don't get sick in Canada after October! ;-)

477 Dianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:19:21am

re: #447 zombie

I'm sorry, but I'll not be able to get to it. I'm madly typing proposals.

478 McSpiff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:19:30am

re: #469 iceweasel
interesting, I would have assumed the idea of offering group insurance to students would have come from the states.

479 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:19:47am

re: #464 Honorary Yooper

OK, so by your definition, George Washington is also a whore, am I correct?

Just a trollop.

480 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:20:10am

re: #437 iceweasel

Spoken like a true novice! ;-)

481 Dianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:20:23am

re: #460 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Read World War Z by Max Brooks, Mel Brooks son.

And don't forget The Zombie Survival Guide.

482 BlueCanuck  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:20:23am

re: #476 quickjustice

Don't get sick in Canada after October! ;-)

Why do you think the "snow birds" head to the states during the winter season? :)

483 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:20:24am

re: #469 iceweasel

My university offered a student plan, but I have no idea about other schools.

484 ~Fianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:20:30am

re: #364 opnion

Locker, Single payer is indeed Socialism. If the government controls payment to medical providers they in effect set all ofthe rules, what is & is not coverd & when treatment is denied etc .
No matter who does or does not like it, it is Socialism.

How is that different than what the insurance companies do?

485 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:20:38am

re: #332 right_wing2

I may have to wash my mouth out, but probably for the first time, I agree with... Barney Frank. God, I can't believe I just said that.

Respect.

486 Honorary Yooper  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:21:13am

re: #483 Sharmuta

My university offered a student plan, but I have no idea about other schools.

Mine did as well. I had to use it for one year.

487 JohnnyReb  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:21:16am

re: #471 theheat

As a horror movie buff and armchair expert of all things zombie, the MFs don't stand a chance against me. I'm ready. Seriously, I can do some extreme zombie damage when the time comes.

//

I have an 87% chance of surviving a Zombie apocalypse.

488 freetoken  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:21:45am

re: #454 ~Fianna


Fully socialized medicine is what the UK has, and by all accounts, it's fairly terrible. In the UK, medical professionals work directly for the government, hospitals and clinics, etc are government owned and you have no other options.

One evidently can get private health care in the UK, as the PM is currently under some heat for going to a private dentist and not a gov't funded one.

489 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:22:00am

re: #481 Dianna

And don't forget The Zombie Survival Guide.

Companion peices. They currently working on a film version of WWZ

490 bloodnok  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:22:01am

re: #441 opnion

Hey woman

Real classy.

/

491 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:22:22am

re: #428 VegasRick

Fuck you.

sic im Rick!

492 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:22:26am

re: #473 DaddyG

My son would love that. He's into anime and your illustrations seem to fit his style. I am intrigued by your statements. If it is doctrinal but not cultural you may find some controversy among the traditionalists but that shouldn't make you hesitate.

Oh...it's doctrinal... but I do take some liberties in the narrative to spice things up... like the 'lilyth' character, in some circles being Adam's first wife before Eve and such. She plays a large role in the series.

494 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:23:01am

re: #444 Cato the Elder

So that six-year-old kid who wants to be President is what???/

495 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:23:08am

re: #484 ~Fianna

How is that different than what the insurance companies do?

As we've said earlier, we have a choice of insurance plans (or at least our employers do), and we have regulatory authorities and courts to back us up.
Have you ever had a dispute with a store?
How about the IRS?
Which would you rather have to fight?

496 gonecamping  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:23:35am

Now that's funny! Perhaps some stimulus funds can be funneled to do additional studies of the threat from non existent creatures.
re: #434 Kenneth

Zombies would most likely wipe out humanity if they really existed, claim scientists


Thread worthy!

497 McSpiff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:23:41am

Also a note for those comparing the Canadian system (and its fault) to any proposed plan in the states, its important to note that while the funding for the Canadian system comes from the federal government, health care in Canada is actually run by the provinces. So, while a certain standard is set by the federal government in return for funding,the actual systems are run at the provincial level. For more information a good starting point is:
The Canada Health Act

498 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:23:48am

re: #342 CommonCents

Would you heap praise on a guy batting .010 because he finally got a single or would say, "he still sucks" ?

Yes I would. That's how you get a streak started. Encourage the positive.

499 zombie  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:23:53am

OK, I'm moving my query about my zomblog post up to the next thread! Let's move!

500 J.S.  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:24:06am

re: #476 quickjustice

hmmm...I don't believe that that the way it works in canada (doctors bill the government per "services rendered" and based on a pre-set fee schedule...) (I have known doctors who do, indeed, intentionally only work a portion of a year, and having a "when I reach this income mark, I'll take the rest of the year off" attitude..)

501 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:24:18am

re: #494 quickjustice

So that six-year-old kid who wants to be President is what???/

In need of a hobby.

502 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:24:30am

re: #488 freetoken

One evidently can get private health care in the UK, as the PM is currently under some heat for going to a private dentist and not a gov't funded one.

Yes. When my previous employer opened an office in London, our HR person was telling me about how they had to offer insurance even with NHS; it was expected for a high-tech company.

503 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:24:40am

re: #486 Honorary Yooper

Mine did as well. I had to use it for one year.

I could walk into the clinic, and the University hospital was across the street from my dorm, and I had dental coverage as well- didn't add too much to my costs.

504 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:24:41am

I'm gone.
Laters.

505 ~Fianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:24:49am

re: #488 freetoken

One evidently can get private health care in the UK, as the PM is currently under some heat for going to a private dentist and not a gov't funded one.

*nod* Most people can't afford to do so, which is why UKers are huffy about it. I support some changes to the way we do health care here, but NOT a UK-style system. It's the worst of both worlds.

This is probably too commonsenseical for politics, but why not just open up Medicare, set a reasonable premium and leave private insurance alone. If someone isn't coverable in the private sector, can't afford or just doesn't want to pay private rates, let them opt in to the public system. If that's not what they want, let them get whatever else they want, are offered and can afford.

506 theheat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:25:00am

re: #487 JohnnyReb

I intend to bag the limit, and then some. I may have found my true calling.

507 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:25:15am

re: #493 Shiplord Kirel

Zombie Alert
Zombie Preparedness 1
Zombie Preparedness 2

One of the labs at MIT has a glass case with a machete and shotgun in it with "In Case of Zombie Attack, Break Glass."

508 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:25:47am

re: #501 Cato the Elder

In need of a hobby.

And parental guidance.

509 McSpiff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:25:52am

re: #502 Kosh's Shadow

Its also common in Canada, I have BCBS coverage as a dependent of my mother, a nurse who works for the public system. Covers prescriptions, dentist, glasses, massages, that type of thing

510 ~Fianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:25:53am

re: #495 Kosh's Shadow

As we've said earlier, we have a choice of insurance plans (or at least our employers do), and we have regulatory authorities and courts to back us up.
Have you ever had a dispute with a store?
How about the IRS?
Which would you rather have to fight?

Have you ever had a dispute with an insurance company? It's not that different from the IRS.

511 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:26:08am

re: #442 Killgore Trout

That deer is going to have a big hairball.

512 Dianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:26:12am

re: #489 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Companion peices. They currently working on a film version of WWZ

Cool!

"Get out of the car, get on the bike!"

513 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:26:40am

re: #447 zombie

Zom,

Looks VERY good. (Read the report, didn't go thru the pictures.)

/I took the liberty of adding a comment ... :D

514 Wendya  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:26:48am

re: #470 Locker


This is the case with insurance companies. I would MUCH rather trust my health care and the health care of my children etc to a system whole stated goal is to help not make money.

Do you demand that your doctors work for free? How about the nurses?

The ability to make money brings innovations you don't see in many other parts of the world, Furthermore, tax dollars are limited. Is the government going to pick up the tab for all medical research including the pharmaceutical and medical devices industries? The government can't continually raise taxes to provide the highest standards of individualized care available without crashing the economy.

515 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:27:12am

re: #470 Locker

Medicare as currently constituted is great, because it's a free lunch. Doctors and hospitals lose money on every Medicare and Medicaid patient. They make up for it by charging more to privately-insured patients. That's called a "cross-subsidy".

Obama's proposal will end private health insurance, which cannot compete with a government "public" plan. That will put doctors and hospitals out of business. What will Obama do then?

516 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:27:47am

re: #364 opnion

Locker, Single payer is indeed Socialism. If the government controls payment to medical providers they in effect set all ofthe rules, what is & is not coverd & when treatment is denied etc .
No matter who does or does not like it, it is Socialism.

princeton.edu...

Socialism - Noun

* S: (n) socialism (a political theory advocating state ownership of industry)
* S: (n) socialism, socialist economy (an economic system based on state ownership of capital)

517 Dianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:27:54am

re: #493 Shiplord Kirel

Zombie Alert
Zombie Preparedness 1
Zombie Preparedness 2

That's great!

But remember, blades don't jam! And a true crowbar is your best bet.

518 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:27:58am

re: #395 midwestgak

I called him a punk because his is behaving like a punk. Disrepecting a long-time lizard with a snark comment is unacceptable. Locker is new to LGF. What gall.

Being a vet means he should get a pass no matter what his comment? Bullshit.


He tossed the first insult & it was gartuitous. I see know reaso for yoyu to meekly take it & you didn't good for you.
Beside , Single Payer is Socialism.

519 zombie  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:28:15am

re: #513 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Zom,

Looks VERY good. (Read the report, didn't go thru the pictures.)

/I took the liberty of adding a comment ... :D

Thanks!

520 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:28:19am

re: #438 theheat

I agree most politicians are whores. I laughed my butt off when the local radio station called the Somali pirates whores. But, as a female, I don't dig on calling a woman politician a whore - Pelsoi, Palin, Hillary - none of them. Somehow, that's a notch below bitch, bitchy, the casual reference as a [fellow] broad... Whore is pretty degrading when targeted toward a single female, and not a concept of being whorish (as a group of politicians).

The term makes me squirm. Sorry.

Hey, I completely agree with you.

I'm generally hanging in the progsphere, and did for years before registering here-- and as I assume everyone knows, the makeup of the whole political blogosphere is overwhelmingly male. (LGF has a higher percentage of female regular commenters than most political blogs, btw-- AFAIK more than all of them except the ones exculsively devoted to women's issues).

I don't like the term. And I see a LOT of really misogynistic language regularly deployed against all female politicians and pundits-- regardless of ideology. Lib blogs that I really like and respect (and I exclude kos and huffpo, btw)-- if there's a post about Michelle Malkin, Coulter, anyone- it's a countdown to when someone SUPPOSEDLY liberal and all 'caring' about women's issues says something disgusting.

Misogyny crosses party lines. And genders-- women are guilty of it too. None of it is cool, IMO.

I'm not at all someone who demands 'PC' speech, but denying that words like 'whore' have a special impact on women is like denying that the n-word has a special impact on blacks.

521 ~Fianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:28:39am

re: #497 McSpiff

Also a note for those comparing the Canadian system (and its fault) to any proposed plan in the states, its important to note that while the funding for the Canadian system comes from the federal government, health care in Canada is actually run by the provinces. So, while a certain standard is set by the federal government in return for funding,the actual systems are run at the provincial level. For more information a good starting point is:
The Canada Health Act

It's my understanding from reading about Canadian health care (and also a few conversations with my Canadian friends) that most of the really bad stories are from Ontario. For whatever reason, it seems like that province just has issues getting things right. People in both BC and NS love the system, my Toronto friends are happy that they have something, but wish the service was better.

522 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:28:56am

re: #512 Dianna

Cool!

"Get out of the car, get on the bike!"

I want to see the Battle of Yonkers. What can a billion+ dollars of state of the art military hardware do to a zombie horde?

Not a hell of a lot acutally.

523 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:29:58am

re: #517 Dianna

That's great!

But remember, blades don't jam! And a true crowbar is your best bet.

Dual purpose too

524 McSpiff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:30:13am

re: #521 ~Fianna

Id agree fully with that. Im in NS, and I could tell you some great success stories. ON issues may just be because it has the largest population. Thats why id be wary of any federal system in the states (amongst other reasons)

525 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:30:34am
526 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:30:39am

re: #362 DaddyG

I can fire an insurance company and get another one. So can my employer.

Ever try to fire the Post office or the IRS when you didn't get the service you wanted?

I understand what you mean but for most of my career in private and public sector I've had a choice of maybe 2 different providers and a few plans within each. If we were talking hundreds (dozens?) of choices for every person vs 1 I'd be more inclined to give this one some weight. I do get what you mean though and it is true that the complaint process is markedly different.

527 ~Fianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:30:46am

re: #515 quickjustice

Medicare as currently constituted is great, because it's a free lunch. Doctors and hospitals lose money on every Medicare and Medicaid patient. They make up for it by charging more to privately-insured patients. That's called a "cross-subsidy".

Obama's proposal will end private health insurance, which cannot compete with a government "public" plan. That will put doctors and hospitals out of business. What will Obama do then?

They make the most charging the uninsured for emergency care. I've had essentially the same proceedure twice as an emergency patient. Without health insurance, at a public hospital for a laproscopic surgery, no hospital stay, my bill was 18k. 3 years later, with insurance, private hospital, full open surgery, 3 day stay, 3 follow-up visits, my insurance co was billed 12k and I paid ~$300 in co-pays.

528 Dianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:30:48am

re: #522 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

I want to see the Battle of Yonkers. What can a billion+ dollars of state of the art military hardware do to a zombie horde?

Not a hell of a lot acutally.

It didn't help that some zombies got into the rear.

I liked the later training, though: "They're not in a hurry. Why are you?"

529 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:30:57am

re: #490 bloodnok

Real classy.

/

Really was not looking to impress you, but I'll just bet thet you are real classy. Beside not that you deserve an explanation, it was not meant as an insult. Now liar is an insult which you just glossed over.

530 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:31:46am

re: #520 iceweasel

Is it misandry to call a male pol a dick, a prick or a putz?

531 BlueCanuck  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:32:27am

re: #523 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Crowbars are a great impromptu weapon, can open doors, smash objects, be used as a wedge in doors, and so on. It's versatiliy is amazing on so many levels.

/as a gamer it's part of my "gear" :)

532 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:32:28am

re: #516 Locker

This is tedious. If you control the wages, you own the system, ergo Socialism.

533 midwestgak  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:32:32am

re: #437 iceweasel

Bah. I find these double standards distasteful. It's one thing if people want to hold new lizards to the same standards as everyone-- that's normal, that's the community.

It's something else entirely when people get pissy because 'you insulted a long term lizard!"
Sorry, insults are insults. They don't become kisses because the person adminstering them is a 'long-time lizard'. And they don't become somehow worse because the person using them is new.

You are showing your "intelectual insecurity." His comment was disrepectful. And being that he is a newbie does make a difference.

Oh, wait. What am I doing trying to explain respect to you? hahahaha. Bad on me.

534 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:32:35am

re: #525 buzzsawmonkey

Zombie: Shouldn't it be "recommending that Bush be hanged," not "hung?"

Exactly. The size of his pud is nobody's business.

535 ~Fianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:32:45am

re: #517 Dianna

That's great!

But remember, blades don't jam! And a true crowbar is your best bet.

I've always thought that a crossbow would be the best weapon. Especially in case of full zombie attack, because you don't have to worry as much about running out of ammo. You could just create pointy projectiles out of things at hand.

536 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:33:15am

re: #352 Desert Dog

So was the gigantic pass the MSM gave Obama...more so than McCain's age, I'd say.

I see MSM a lot but didn't look up/find that one yet, any help? And a pass on what with regard to Obama?

537 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:33:18am

re: #470 Locker

I respectfully disagree with your "would be"s. Medicare works great it just needs to be funded. People really like it. Remember, this is about health care and most people that ARE interested in helping people aren't really going to be swayed by the money, waste, government is evil argument and I'll tell you why.
[snip]

Respectively, I am only going to deal with one part of your answer, the part that addressed my comment.

You don't have to agree with my "would be," I am only stating facts. If you have never been a contractor for the federal government, than you may not be able to relate to what I posted.

If we get single payer, private doctors would be as good as federal employees. And we know how cost effective federal "business'" have been.

538 ~Fianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:34:01am

re: #534 Cato the Elder

Exactly. The size of his pud is nobody's business.

Well, maybe Mrs. Bush's...

539 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:34:04am

re: #535 ~Fianna

I've always thought that a crossbow would be the best weapon. Especially in case of full zombie attack, because you don't have to worry as much about running out of ammo. You could just create pointy projectiles out of things at hand.

Obviously you haven't really fired a bow or crossbow.

540 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:35:00am

re: #466 Greengolem64

Ad-hominem attacks on any side are never good...but having our legislators sinking to that level...well, you get what you ask for.

Ad hominem attacks are exactly the proper response to a lunatic who carries Hitler signs and says things like "Nazi health care."

Treating this craziness like any other opinion is what got us into this sad state. We need more politicians who will stop treating the lunatics with kid gloves and make it clear that 1) they're crazy, and 2) their views deserve no respect from sane people.

541 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:35:00am

re: #516 Locker

Socialism - Noun

* S: (n) socialism (a political theory advocating state ownership of industry)
* S: (n) socialism, socialist economy (an economic system based on state ownership of capital)

England, France, Germany = Democratic Socialist = nationalized health care ergo socialistic health care

542 Wendya  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:35:29am

re: #489 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Companion peices. They currently working on a film version of WWZ

Favorite Zombie movie: Shaun of the Dead. Brit humor and zombies. What could be better?

543 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:35:41am

re: #525 buzzsawmonkey

Zombie: Shouldn't it be "recommending that Bush be hanged," not "hung?"

/I will NOT post the obvious follow-on
/I will NOT post the obvious follow-on
/I will NOT post the obvious follow-on
/I will NOT post the obvious follow-on

544 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:35:44am

re: #528 Dianna

It didn't help that some zombies got into the rear.

I liked the later training, though: "They're not in a hurry. Why are you?"

Or the Navy guy. "A shame about the whales."

545 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:36:21am

re: #356 Irish Rose

Honestly, Cato... do you make comments like that just to be inflammatory, or do you actually believe what you say?

Honestly Rose I think Cato keeps it up for that exact reason. He keeps waiting for people to notice so he can move on to something new but they, unbelievably, don't get it. It's called a chain yank and yes this is just a personal guess.

546 Bloodnok  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:36:28am

re: #529 opnion

Really was not looking to impress you, but I'll just bet thet you are real classy. Beside not that you deserve an explanation, it was not meant as an insult. Now liar is an insult which you just glossed over.

That's swell because you didn't. Nothing after "Hey woman" deserves to be taken seriously in a post like that. You are just stirring shit. Have a blast.

547 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:36:37am

re: #542 Wendya

Favorite Zombie movie: Shaun of the Dead. Brit humor and zombies. What could be better?

Zombieland looks like it could be funny.

548 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:37:29am

re: #527 ~Fianna

You've got it wrong. The last time I took my elderly mother (who is insured) to the emergency room (ER), she waited five hours before she was seen. Everyone ahead of her in line was an uninsured Mexican. The ERs are cross-subsidizing their indigent care by charging higher prices to those who can pay, insured or uninsured.

549 Wendya  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:37:37am

re: #535 ~Fianna

I've always thought that a crossbow would be the best weapon. Especially in case of full zombie attack, because you don't have to worry as much about running out of ammo. You could just create pointy projectiles out of things at hand.

I'd rather have a rifle and a crowbar. Use the rifle from a fortified position to think the herd and the crowbar for when you are on the move.

550 BlueCanuck  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:37:52am

re: #545 Locker

Honestly Rose I think Cato keeps it up for that exact reason. He keeps waiting for people to notice so he can move on to something new but they, unbelievably, don't get it. It's called a chain yank and yes this is just a personal guess.

If it's a "running" gag, I think it should be shown the door.

551 zombie  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:38:16am

re: #525 buzzsawmonkey

Zombie: Shouldn't it be "recommending that Bush be hanged," not "hung?"

Got it. Thanks!

552 EaterOfFood  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:38:40am

re: #335 StillAMarine


More evidence that he is, at heart, a Democrat is that LaRouche was sentenced to 15 years' imprisonment in 1988 for conspiracy to commit mail fraud and tax code violations.

He'd fit the Obama cabinet like a glove. He just met one of the key qualifications.

553 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:39:03am

re: #516 Locker

Check out the difference between monopoly and monopsony. Single payer is a government-controlled monopsony-- they corner the market in purchasers of health care services. As a practical matter, it destroys the free market either way.

554 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:39:16am

re: #546 Bloodnok

That's swell because you didn't. Nothing after "Hey woman" deserves to be taken seriously in a post like that. You are just stirring shit. Have a blast.

Ok, I want you to hear this. Move up to your monitor.
Ready? Go srew yourself, jerk!

555 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:39:43am

re: #447 zombie

A couple other sites/images that could be useful for inclusion:

Here, here, and here.

More graffiti: here.

556 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:39:53am

re: #551 zombie

Got it. Thanks!

(And here I thought you'd merely spoken to Laura)

*running like hell*

557 J.S.  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:39:57am

re: #521 ~Fianna

There's a big meeting right now (by the Canadian Medical Association) about Health Care in Canada...(some doctors are proposing changes to the system). Basically complaints are due to long, long wait time for certain surgeries, a lack of doctors (many doctors are trained in Canada, but they leave to take up practice in the States -- The U.S. offers greater professional rewards, career advancement opportunities, along with higher salaries), etc. Anyway, our system is now under scrutiny...

558 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:40:16am
559 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:40:26am

re: #540 Charles

Ad hominem attacks are exactly the proper response to a lunatic who carries Hitler signs and says things like "Nazi health care."

Treating this craziness like any other opinion is what got us into this sad state. We need more politicians who will stop treating the lunatics with kid gloves and make it clear that 1) they're crazy, and 2) their views deserve no respect from sane people.

And that is something I can agree with you 100 percent. And I hope we start seeing it on both side, big time!

Let's hold politicians to this kind of honestly.

560 zombie  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:40:55am

re: #540 Charles

Ad hominem attacks are exactly the proper response to a lunatic who carries Hitler signs and says things like "Nazi health care."

Treating this craziness like any other opinion is what got us into this sad state. We need more politicians who will stop treating the lunatics with kid gloves and make it clear that 1) they're crazy, and 2) their views deserve no respect from sane people.

But note the section in my report where Barney Frank had this to say in 2002 about a protester who was arrested by the Secret Service for threatening Bush:

“A few weeks ago Massachusetts Rep. Barney Frank and 10 other members of Congress wrote a letter to Attorney General John Ashcroft condemning the arrest. They wrote: ‘This prosecution smacks of the use of the Sedition Acts two hundred years ago to protect the President from political discomfort. It was wrong then and it is wrong now. We urge you to drop this prosecution based so clearly on the political views being expressed by the individual who is being prosecuted.’ ”

He's playing both sides of the field, as political expediency.

561 Bloodnok  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:40:59am

re: #554 opnion

Ok, I want you to hear this. Move up to your monitor.
Ready? Go srew yourself, jerk!

Well played.

Tip: When you move in for the really big insult, try to spell it right.

562 NelsFree  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:41:03am

Barney Frank: "On what planet do you live?"
Rush Limbaugh: "Barney Frank lives around Uranus."
/Quote unquote

563 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:41:27am

re: #372 realwest

"And their low rates will probably drive doctors out of the business."
OTOH, that could be a backhanded way to achieve Tort Reform - if a doctor is an agent of the State itself, then that doctor would receive the "Sovereign Immunity" which the State has, would he/she not?

Which is exactly why the Dems want to keep doctors, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, etc., in the private sector. That way they can still be sued, to the benefit of the tort bar. Not so if those entities are part of the government, where you get compensated for malpractice according to some schedule, or by government mandated binding arbitration.

564 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:41:33am

re: #549 Wendya

I'd rather have a rifle and a crowbar. Use the rifle from a fortified position to think the herd and the crowbar for when you are on the move.

Any noise is just bringing more, save the rifle for an emergency. To really thin them out, just get some heavy weights, some heavy chain and some winches. Wait till they crowd the wall, drop the weights, heads go splat, winch them back up and get ready for round 2. Clear out the bodies every few days so they dont get a ramp into your position.

565 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:42:02am

re: #367 Walter L. Newton

Except that under the federal government taxpayers will be paying for all of it. Under the insurance companies, you have the freedom to be part of the plan or not, and pay or not.

In the federal proposal, you will either be part of some plan, or pay a fine of 2.5 percent of your adjusted gross income every year.

That's an insurance company model? Forcing you to pay something even if you don't want it?

I'm not an advocate of the federal proposal, I'm an advocate of single payer. Under that model though, if I did chose to take the affirmative in a debate I say sure, I'll pay the 2.5 percent even if I don't use it. In the interest of the greater good. I'm not speaking for anyone else or trying to convince you or guilt you into paying it, just saying that I, personally, would pay. Happily even.

566 JohnnyReb  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:42:41am

re: #557 J.S.

There's a big meeting right now (by the Canadian Medical Association) about Health Care in Canada...(some doctors are proposing changes to the system). Basically complaints are due to long, long wait time for certain surgeries, a lack of doctors (many doctors are trained in Canada, but they leave to take up practice in the States -- The U.S. offers greater professional rewards, career advancement opportunities, along with higher salaries), etc. Anyway, our system is now under scrutiny...

Good luck with that. In my 50+ years I have never seen a government program get smaller here in the US. The only exception to that is the military. Seems every time the Dems get in power, or when we win a major war the military gets downsized. Inevitably we pay for that later.

567 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:43:03am

re: #557 J.S.

One of my cousins was trained at McGill University Medical School in Montreal back in the 1980s. He was a U.S. citizen. He wanted to remain in Canada to work as a physician, but was denied a visa by the Canadian government on grounds that they wanted to strictly control the supply of physicians to keep health care costs under control.

Long waits to see physicians are deliberately planned by the Canadian government to keep costs under control.

568 zombie  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:43:28am

re: #555 lawhawk

A couple other sites/images that could be useful for inclusion:

Here, here, and here.

More graffiti: here.

First link: Already in my report.

Second link: Nice! But what is the provenance?

Third link: Not a threat to Bush

Fourth link: 404 Forbidden.

569 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:43:50am

re: #372 realwest

"And their low rates will probably drive doctors out of the business."
OTOH, that could be a backhanded way to achieve Tort Reform - if a doctor is an agent of the State itself, then that doctor would receive the "Sovereign Immunity" which the State has, would he/she not?

That is one of the most interesting thoughts I've read all week. Thank you very much realwest. That was very tasty, mentally.

570 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:44:29am

re: #510 ~Fianna

Have you ever had a dispute with an insurance company? It's not that different from the IRS.

I haven't had one with an insurance company; did have one with the IRS that was handled easily, actually. Some information got garbled, and they claimed I had received some outrageous amount of interest, and owed taxes on it. They also claimed I made a mistake elsewhere, which was true. I admitted to the mistake, said it looked like the interest was a transmission error, and they agreed.

But I do have courts to back me up against an insurance company. Much harder with the government.

571 McSpiff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:44:42am

re: #557 J.S.

the wait times *really* depend on where in the country you are. I know the wait time for my grandfathers heart valve replacement surgery was...3 days. Because he was told he needed the surgery on a friday, and it wasn't considered critical. Mind you our provincial system is formally responsible for less than a million people, and has 3 main hospitals, a children's hospital and is connected to a major med/dentistry school. Thats also not counting the various sized clinics, veterans hospital, various military hospitals and a large mental health complex. In a city of less than half a million.

Dont buy into *any* federal system.

572 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:45:35am

re: #561 Bloodnok

Well played.

Tip: When you move in for the really big insult, try to spell it right.


Spot me a C.
You apparently missed the entire point, because you somehow saw the term "Woman :" as a major insult. It was not & you just ignored the point of the post, yet you felt free to break in with a snarky comment
But ya know what, I apologize to you for my last post.

573 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:45:57am

re: #380 JohnnyReb

Nope. They don't get it under Medicare now, so nothing would change with single payer.

Might be something to build into the model though. I really liked the idea when he said it.

574 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:46:03am

re: #530 Cato the Elder

Is it misandry to call a male pol a dick, a prick or a putz?

No, it is not. Because there aren't thousands of years of history reducing men to only their genitalia and valuing them only in terms of their genitalia.

And the original discussion was about calling women whores-- which you will know was once one of the only 'professions' available to women-- and still is, for poor women, one of their only options. In effect, calling a woman a whore reduces her status once again to that of her genitalia-- as well as implying that that she has nothing but her genitalia to offer, or justify her position.

Cato, you're really too smart for this. I know you know all this.

575 doubter4444  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:46:06am

re: #291 Coracle

Add one more.

Yep. I'm in that camp. I was ready a supported McCain, and was really looking forward to seeing his VP pick, as I knew he was old, and I felt the VP of a McCain ticket, if it won, was a real strong contender for 2012, as McCain most likely would not/could not do more than one term.
The pick soured him for me and, as mentioned above, for most of the moderates leaning my way.
I must say howeve

576 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:46:17am

re: #541 Walter L. Newton

"Single payer medicare" is a euphemism for "socialized medicine" and is a standard policy goal of socialist parties. As you point out, in the UK, France, Germany & Canada, socialized medicine was introduced by socialist parties. Even though Conservative parties now govern in Canada, France and Germany (and will soon again in the UK), the socialist gov't healthcare systems will remain. It's very hard to end a gov't program once it has been started. This does not mean that Canada, German, France & the UK are all equally Socialist countries. It does mean these countries have some socialist institutions.

Obama may or may not be a socialist himself. The Democratic Party is certainly not a socialist party. But single-payer socialized medicare is a socialist policy.

577 NelsFree  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:46:56am

re: #565 Locker
Dear Locker,

I disagree with your position on single payer. You may be willing to allow the Government to take money from you and spend it on someone else, "for the greater good". I prefer to keep my hard-earned money and spend it as I see fit; first for my greater good, then for the charity of my choice. My money, spend in the private sector, will boost the economy more than government spending the same amount.
/Too early to offer a beer

578 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:47:14am
579 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:47:20am

re: #561 Bloodnok

Well played.

Tip: When you move in for the really big insult, try to spell it right.

Hahaha-- oh nok, you are the best. ;)

580 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:47:32am

re: #382 Kosh's Shadow

But there is more than one insurance company to chose from. Employers tend to find a cheap one, but still, one that their employees would actually want.
And then, you have the government's insurance regulators and the courts to back you up, at least to some extent.

One payer who also is in charge of regulation? That's a Soviet system, doomed to abuses.

I would think regulation would by a completely different entity or at least that would make sense. We do the same thing with money, right? I don't know if it's a Soviet system or not but I'd be happy to read anything you could provide.

581 McSpiff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:47:35am

re: #576 Kenneth

Socialist parties also form at least one provincial government in Canada, too lazy to check exactly how many tho.

582 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:49:39am

re: #579 iceweasel

Hahaha-- oh nok, you are the best. ;)

Well, that was slobbering.

583 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:50:02am

re: #578 buzzsawmonkey

... or must I hesitate?

Yas yas yas.

/:D ... we're gonna find out if we both listened to the same album

584 Wendya  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:50:39am

re: #547 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Zombieland looks like it could be funny.

Yeah, that's on my list of movies to see.

585 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:51:21am

re: #395 midwestgak

I called him a punk because his is behaving like a punk. Disrepecting a long-time lizard with a snark comment is unacceptable. Locker is new to LGF. What gall.

Being a vet means he should get a pass no matter what his comment? Bullshit.

What's bullshit is your buddy asking obtuse question after obtuse question trying to lay some sort of trap without every stating any point or opinion. I finally called him on it and you decided that makes me a punk. That's your opinion.

586 HippieforLife  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:51:28am

As far as I am concerned you don't criticize stupidity by saying something equally stupid. Frank's comment was something akin to junior high school insults.

Just because this lady is a kook does not give an elected representative a right to treat her publicly like an idiot. He could have given a more respectful answer. Not too much can be accomplished by saying that your opponents are "like dining room tables".

He really should have risen above the situation.

587 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:52:16am
588 BlueCanuck  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:52:16am

re: #571 McSpiff

Ontario: population approx. 10 million
Toronto(capital) population approx 2.5 million.
Number of hospitals? Too lazy to look up, off top of my head there are at least 10 main ones, one childrens hospital, one that is focused on womens health. Most cities in Ontario have a hospital of some sort so there approximately 50 or more scattered about the province. We're large so there has to be major medical centers scattered about. My dad had to be shipped to Toronto once on an emergency basis. Done by land instead of air. Good thing too. He would have died from undiscovered internal bleeding if he went by air. Of course the system is breaking under the large strain.

589 gregb  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:53:20am

re: #11 cronus

I officially nominate Godwin's Law as the Fifth Law of Thermodynamics. Honestly, it's as empirically proven as any other law in nature.

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

590 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:53:26am

re: #581 McSpiff

Gov't of Manitoba.

My point is that once started, a program like gov't run single-payer medicare will become permanent. And that such programs are by definition, socialist.

591 NelsFree  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:53:30am

re: #580 Locker

I would think regulation would bybe a completely different entity; or at least that would make sense. We do the same thing with money, right? I don't know if it's a Soviet system or not but I'd be happy to read anything you could provide.

You may want to read this:
[Link: www.classicalideals.com...]

592 debutaunt  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:53:43am

re: #532 opnion

This is tedious. If you control the wages, you own the system, ergo Socialism.

And non-profit can mean that AARP spends major money on politics.

593 McSpiff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:55:17am

re: #590 Kenneth

Depends who owns what. The canadian version? socialist. Government owns the hospital, even if the doctors are private. If the government didn't own anything, becomes more varied.

594 debutaunt  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:55:25am

re: #536 Locker

I see MSM a lot but didn't look up/find that one yet, any help? And a pass on what with regard to Obama?

hahahhaahhahahahahahahahaahaa

595 Spartacus50  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:55:46am

I've long since given up any interest in the shenanigans at these "town hall" events. What are the odds of this being another agent provocateur attempting to smear the people who are generally pissed about Health Care Reform?

596 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:56:00am

re: #574 iceweasel

No, it is not. Because there aren't thousands of years of history reducing men to only their genitalia and valuing them only in terms of their genitalia.

And the original discussion was about calling women whores-- which you will know was once one of the only 'professions' available to women-- and still is, for poor women, one of their only options. In effect, calling a woman a whore reduces her status once again to that of her genitalia-- as well as implying that that she has nothing but her genitalia to offer, or justify her position.

Cato, you're really too smart for this. I know you know all this.

I made a pun on a dead thread, which opnion mischaracterized as a straight-out insult to Palin here. I quoted the original post here for clarification, and I then said "all politicians are whores", which you agreed with. "All" would include females, as distasteful as the literal meaning of the word may be.

If you are now trying to convict me of misogyny, I think perhaps you ought to go back and read the original post in context and then apologize to me for overreacting.

Or you could just take opnion's opnion at face value.

In any case I will not be muzzled by phony gender propriety.

597 ~Fianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:56:08am

re: #539 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Obviously you haven't really fired a bow or crossbow.

Not in a long time. I wasn't bad when I was a kid, but it's not something I kept up. What am I missing?

598 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:56:36am

re: #422 realwest

I know what your saying about the odds of McCain vs Obama dying in office and would have some solace in that IF Obama had released all of his medical records the way McCain did, instead of a one page letter from his doctor.

True but you know how it is when you handicap a horse. You go with what you got. I watch Obama he looks young, shooting jump shots, vigorous etc. McCain looks old and unwell. No doubt Obama could have some non-visible problem but you go with what you got.

599 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:57:03am

re: #592 debutaunt

"Non-profit" isn't the same as "charitable". If the "non-profit" is a political club, for example, contributions to the club aren't tax deductible, as they would be if the "non-profit" were a charity.

600 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:57:37am

re: #578 buzzsawmonkey

re: #583 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Yas yas yas.

/:D ... we're gonna find out if we both listened to the same album


Buzz, who was the artist?!?!?
John Fahey?
I haven't had the LP in such a long time that I've forgotten.
I might like to get a CD, if available, for the guitar playing.

601 Kenneth  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:58:02am

re: #593 McSpiff

True, there are differences. In the US some hospitals are state owned, some are private. In Canada, most hospitals are publicly owned, but a few clinics are privately owned. It's a matter of degree, not absolute differences.

602 ~Fianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:58:03am

re: #548 quickjustice

You've got it wrong. The last time I took my elderly mother (who is insured) to the emergency room (ER), she waited five hours before she was seen. Everyone ahead of her in line was an uninsured Mexican. The ERs are cross-subsidizing their indigent care by charging higher prices to those who can pay, insured or uninsured.

Free care is reserved for the destitute. I'm okay with that, actually. People shouldn't die because of lack of money.

The big issue with the uninsured and destitute, though, is that most of the things that they bring to ERs could be easier and much more inexpensively handled in a doctor's office, but a lot of doctors won't take cash patients.

603 NelsFree  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:58:25am

Gotta go mow now.
/H'm, the last two words are spelled almost the same yet are pronounced differently. Where's a Linguist when you need one?

604 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:58:30am

re: #592 debutaunt

And non-profit can mean that AARP spends major money on politics.

Excellent point!

605 J.S.  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:59:21am

re: #567 quickjustice

hmmm...interesting. I've heard (and read) about all sorts of articles attempting to explain "why are health care costs so expensive?" and related topics, such as "how do we reduce costs?" Almost all the articles were partisan -- some blamed the patients (someone sneezes and they run to the doctor); others blame the doctors (the doctors find ways to bill the government in needless procedures); some blame the administrators; others claim increasing costs are due to demographics (an aging population), etc. In the end, I just throw up my hands (I don't know what to believe...)

606 McSpiff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:59:50am

re: #601 Kenneth

Nicely put summary. Id just add that many "privately" owned hospitals are essentially trusts, not private in the sense of owned by a corporation.

607 ~Fianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 10:59:52am

re: #549 Wendya

I'd rather have a rifle and a crowbar. Use the rifle from a fortified position to think the herd and the crowbar for when you are on the move.

What happens when you run out of ammo, though?

608 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:01:01am
609 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:01:10am

re: #597 ~Fianna

Not in a long time. I wasn't bad when I was a kid, but it's not something I kept up. What am I missing?

Stability, range, force of impact, reload time

610 ~Fianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:02:12am

re: #564 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Any noise is just bringing more, save the rifle for an emergency. To really thin them out, just get some heavy weights, some heavy chain and some winches. Wait till they crowd the wall, drop the weights, heads go splat, winch them back up and get ready for round 2. Clear out the bodies every few days so they dont get a ramp into your position.

Filing that one away in memory. Great idea!

611 bloodnok  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:02:19am

re: #582 opnion

Well, that was slobbering.

And that was spelled correctly (hands out cigar).

612 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:03:39am

re: #565 Locker

I'm not an advocate of the federal proposal, I'm an advocate of single payer. Under that model though, if I did chose to take the affirmative in a debate I say sure, I'll pay the 2.5 percent even if I don't use it. In the interest of the greater good. I'm not speaking for anyone else or trying to convince you or guilt you into paying it, just saying that I, personally, would pay. Happily even.

You miss my point altogether. If the federal proposals go through, you will pay, everyone without insurance WILL pay 2.5 percent of their gross adjusted income, happily or not.

If you like that sort of control, go for it. But the conservatives will stop this, the country will stop this, it's happening already, and the only place it has to go is DOWN from here.

I'll tell you what, you can send that money to me. OK?

613 Liberal Classic  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:04:39am

re: #116 lawhawk

LaRouche is a ___ (fill in the blank with any or all of the following):

Crank
Kook
Nut
Conspiracist
Moonbat
Loon
Wingnut
Cultist
A poor man's Ralph Nader
A rich man's Ralph Nader
A perpetual candidate who offers nothing new to political discourse

Your list isn't complete without entries for "fraud", "thief", "criminal", and "convicted felon".

614 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:04:59am

re: #611 bloodnok

And that was spelled correctly (hands out cigar).

Just trying to win your approval, cause you know, it means so much to me.
I am glad that you have appointed youself the 4th grade grammar & spelling teacher.
I did offer you an apology upthread.

615 ckb  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:05:04am

re: #20 ckb

Despite her being a nutty LaRouche supporter, Frank should have responded in a civil manner and not with an ad-hominem attack.

I hope you rethink your comment Charles - and I hope you would have handled the same question in a professional manner were you in the same position.

She is one of his constituents, and insulting anyone is never the right answer. This is raising the level of the debate? I expected more from Frank, but he continually disappoints. So much for being "smart".

Great Scott! I'm up to 14 downdings for saying that an elected official in the US Congress should be civil to EVERYONE at a town meeting? Are you serious?? A townhall isn't a blog!

I didn't say he should have gotten into a Nazi debate with the nutjob. In fact that would have been worse. But we must expect our representatives to be more professional and clever than "dinner table" and "what planet do you live on". Bush would have been civil. Ted Kennedy would have been civil. Hell, John Kerry would have answered this wacko in a civil manner without ad-hominems.

616 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:05:35am

re: #533 midwestgak

You are showing your "intelectual insecurity." ...

Oh, wait. What am I doing trying to explain respect to you? hahahaha. Bad on me.

Excellent display of self-defeating argument there. Cheers.

617 debutaunt  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:05:47am

re: #569 Locker

That is one of the most interesting thoughts I've read all week. Thank you very much realwest. That was very tasty, mentally.

Fewer doctors to choose from who are simultaneously being protected by the state. How nice.

618 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:05:55am

re: #608 buzzsawmonkey

"Can I get it now, or must I hesitate?" goes back to the late 'teens. I've heard a number of versions, one of my faves being a western swing cover with verses like,

She rolls her stockings right at the knee
No wonder the sailors like to go to sea
Oh, tell me, how long do I have to wait
Can I get it now, or must I hesitate?

This ol' town is a mean old place
The men talk tenor and the gals talk bass
Oh, tell me, how long do I have to wait
Can I get it now, or must I hesitate?

Etc.

I can't remember which band did it; it's on the Okeh Western Swing album, and it wasn't Bob Wills.

Then that's not the song I recalled. IIRC, that one was titled "Hesitation Blues", and had a VERY similar phrase at the end of each refrain. 1960's folk music, with one helluva claw hammer finger-picker artist.

619 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:06:32am

re: #582 opnion

Well, that was slobbering.

You're just butthurt that I haven't bothered to answer you before. ;)

620 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:07:23am

re: #618 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Or maybe it was an "update" of the same song, but it certainly wasn't the same album.

621 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:07:37am

re: #607 ~Fianna

What happens when you run out of ammo, though?

Unless you have a steady supply of ammo, you're better off using manual means to kill the zombies and saving the rifle to use for hunting for food.

622 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:07:52am

re: #611 bloodnok

And that was spelled correctly (hands out cigar).

What are you, a lib who voted for CLINTON?111!! //

623 Wendya  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:07:54am

re: #602 ~Fianna

but a lot of doctors won't take cash patients.

They've been burned too many times by people who say they have the ability to pay and then don't. I've got a high deductible/catastrophic policy so I pay for all my own visits. I get a cash discount and my doctor knows I'll pay before I walk out the door. Being a business owner in a small town helps. We've got a good reputation and pay all our bills on time.

624 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:08:52am
625 McSpiff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:08:58am

re: #588 BlueCanuck

I can believe it. Glad to hear your dad made it through ok. Im not going to argue the canadian system is perfect by any means, i just feel it deserves to be properly represented. We need a pretty major overall in Canada as well, but I think the fundamental ideas here are sound.

626 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:09:03am

re: #619 iceweasel

You're just butthurt that I haven't bothered to answer you before. ;)

ok thts funny.

627 Wendya  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:09:20am

re: #607 ~Fianna

What happens when you run out of ammo, though?

You've still got a crowbar.

628 ~Fianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:09:38am

re: #609 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Stability, range, force of impact, reload time

Depends then on what you're using it for and the style of zombie in this particular apocalypse. Ambush in an open area, you're right. Strategic defense from a fortified location with slow moving "WW Z" type zombies over a long period of time, I think archers would be pretty effective.

629 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:10:07am

re: #622 iceweasel

What are you, a lib who voted for CLINTON?111!! //

no, too young to vote. this is a 10 year old brat.

630 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:12:53am

re: #596 Cato the Elder


Or you could just take opnion's opnion at face value.

In any case I will not be muzzled by phony gender propriety.

Cato, I'd never take opnion's uh, opinion, over yours-- and I won't muzzle you with phony gender propriety (though it sounds kinky!).

Just expressing my own small comment. I like you, I know you're a smart guy, and I know you're not a misogynist. Just said why I and some other might have an issue with that word, that's all. Peace, dude. I'm on your side here!

631 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:13:13am

re: #576 Kenneth

Obama may or may not be a socialist himself.

Kenneth,

Make no mistake. The One is most definitely a socialist, at the least. He, like Shrillary, is a Saul Alinsky student.

Shrillary's thesis was not allowed to be released until she left the White House, albeit kicking and screaming, and The One is a socialist, also.

I wouls hazzard a guess that a number of his picks also are.

632 debutaunt  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:14:31am

re: #599 quickjustice

"Non-profit" isn't the same as "charitable". If the "non-profit" is a political club, for example, contributions to the club aren't tax deductible, as they would be if the "non-profit" were a charity.

Yes. I was referring to people who believe non-profit insurance coverage is cheaper, while ignoring all the money they put into politics. AARP is losing a lot of members over this now apparent issue.

633 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:14:49am

re: #628 ~Fianna

Depends then on what you're using it for and the style of zombie in this particular apocalypse. Ambush in an open area, you're right. Strategic defense from a fortified location with slow moving "WW Z" type zombies over a long period of time, I think archers would be pretty effective.

But anything other than a head shot which penetrates the skull is worthless, and thats not going to be easy with bow. Easier to use catchpoles or boar spears to stop the zombies, or just a wall and hit down using hammers or other pole arm type weapons allow gravity to do most of the work.

634 Wendya  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:15:03am

re: #609 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Stability, range, force of impact, reload time

I've got a recurve bow and it pretty much comes in dead last in my list of stuff I'd want to have.

635 ckb  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:15:23am

re: #540 Charles

Ad hominem attacks are exactly the proper response to a lunatic who carries Hitler signs and says things like "Nazi health care."

Treating this craziness like any other opinion is what got us into this sad state. We need more politicians who will stop treating the lunatics with kid gloves and make it clear that 1) they're crazy, and 2) their views deserve no respect from sane people.

My opinion is that you can do 1) and 2) more effectively without ad-hominems. I certainly could.

636 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:15:41am

re: #624 buzzsawmonkey

No, that's it; "Hesitation Blues" is the proper title. As I say, it goes back to at least the 'teens, but I can't remember which of the now relatively obscure artists I've heard doing it. I may even have it on an early Brunswick somewhere. The Okeh version was from the mid-late thirties.

Hot damn! I found the album!
Dave van Ronk, The Folkways Years
Thanks for bringing it back to mind.

637 J.S.  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:16:22am

re: #625 McSpiff

I think yet another problem is in determining "When is a 'major overhaul' of the system required?" If the provinces deliver the actual health care, and the actual delivery is "problematic" with too long wait times, etc., then is a major overhaul called for? (the only role of the Federal government is in ensuring that the 5 principles are kept: "1) Universally available to permanent residents, 2) Comprehensive in the services it covers; 3)Accessible without income barriers; 4) Portable within and outside the country; and 5)Publicly administered"...I don't have a problem with the 5 principles...)

638 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:17:08am

re: #630 iceweasel

Cato, I'd never take opnion's uh, opinion, over yours-- and I won't muzzle you with phony gender propriety (though it sounds kinky!).

Just expressing my own small comment. I like you, I know you're a smart guy, and I know you're not a misogynist. Just .said why I and some other might have an issue with that word, that's all. Peace, dude. I'm on your side here!

I am so hurt. OK, not really

639 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:17:29am

re: #634 Wendya

I've got a recurve bow and it pretty much comes in dead last in my list of stuff I'd want to have.

Might be useful for incendiaries, but the last thing you want to do is set an active zombie on fire

640 Liberal Classic  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:17:38am

re: #615 ckb

Great Scott! I'm up to 14 downdings for saying that an elected official in the US Congress should be civil to EVERYONE at a town meeting? Are you serious?? A townhall isn't a blog!

I didn't say he should have gotten into a Nazi debate with the nutjob. In fact that would have been worse. But we must expect our representatives to be more professional and clever than "dinner table" and "what planet do you live on". Bush would have been civil. Ted Kennedy would have been civil. Hell, John Kerry would have answered this wacko in a civil manner without ad-hominems.

"It is a tribute to the First Amendment that this kind of vile, contemptible nonsense is so freely propagated."

As often as I find myself standing in opposition to policies proposed by Senator Frank, I have to agree with him in this instance. In fact, I can't think of a better response than saying something like, "your nuts and there's nothing to be gained from debating you."

If only he would have said the same thing about people with Bush Derangement Syndrome.

641 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:18:37am

re: #630 iceweasel

Cato, I'd never take opnion's uh, opinion, over yours-- and I won't muzzle you with phony gender propriety (though it sounds kinky!).

Just expressing my own small comment. I like you, I know you're a smart guy, and I know you're not a misogynist. Just said why I and some other might have an issue with that word, that's all. Peace, dude. I'm on your side here!

I get it. And I would not have used the non-slang, dictionary version of the word to describe even Palin. I saw an opportunity for a pun, and I took it. Must be all the Joyce I've read.

And opnion is an ass. (Note to leering, mind-in-gutter readers: I refer to the beast, not the body part.)

642 ~Fianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:18:49am

re: #623 Wendya

They've been burned too many times by people who say they have the ability to pay and then don't. I've got a high deductible/catastrophic policy so I pay for all my own visits. I get a cash discount and my doctor knows I'll pay before I walk out the door. Being a business owner in a small town helps. We've got a good reputation and pay all our bills on time.

*nod* That is helpful. I'm a cash patient, and I have the money to pay as well... but in a large city, there's no way to verify that.

I'm not blaming the doctors, I can understand why they don't want to take the risk. But it does put pressures on other areas of the health system that need to be addressed somehow. The cost of treatment in emergency rooms is straining local governments and that's not going to get better.

643 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:20:40am

#588 BlueCanuck

And Sick Kids is one of the very best in the world.

644 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:21:50am

WWZ is being adapted into a screenplay by J. Michael Straczynski. Somebody tell Kosh.

645 McSpiff  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:21:56am

re: #637 J.S.

Id agree fully. Im hoping discussion in the states will cause some self reflection in Canada as well. I've only ever had good experiences with the canadian system, but these things can always be improved.

646 ~Fianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:22:06am

re: #633 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

But anything other than a head shot which penetrates the skull is worthless, and thats not going to be easy with bow. Easier to use catchpoles or boar spears to stop the zombies, or just a wall and hit down using hammers or other pole arm type weapons allow gravity to do most of the work.

I think the lowly pike is overlooked in anti-zombie preparedness.

Are you familiar with [Link: www.zombiehunters.org...] - great site about preparedness with less of the more objectionable aspects of many survivalist boards.

647 Bloodnok  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:22:15am

re: #629 opnion

no, too young to vote. this is a 10 year old brat.

Phew. At least the liberal secret of the "10 Year-Old" voting bloc is safe...for now.

648 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:22:39am

re: #630 iceweasel
This started with me trying to find out if you were calling me a liar.
You refuse to answer for whatever reason,so I'll take that as a yes.

649 [deleted]  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:23:14am
650 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:23:54am

re: #638 opnion

I am so hurt. OK, not really

yeah, I know you were hoping to get muzzled with the phony gender impropiety, and failing that, to get the ball gag of socialism. ///

I'm spoken for. :)

651 Coracle  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:24:26am

re: #560 zombie

But note the section in my report where Barney Frank had this to say in 2002 about a protester who was arrested by the Secret Service for threatening Bush:

“A few weeks ago Massachusetts Rep. Barney Frank and 10 other members of Congress wrote a letter to Attorney General John Ashcroft condemning the arrest. They wrote: ‘This prosecution smacks of the use of the Sedition Acts two hundred years ago to protect the President from political discomfort. It was wrong then and it is wrong now. We urge you to drop this prosecution based so clearly on the political views being expressed by the individual who is being prosecuted.’ ”

He's playing both sides of the field, as political expediency.

He was arrested for threatening bush? Or he was arrested for "refus(ing) to leave a restricted area cordoned off by the Secret Service"? The slate article you reference does not seem to construe that as a threat - merely that the law allowed the protester to be treated as one.

On any case, I would argue apples and oranges. In the recent event Frank explicitly credited the First Amendment as what allowed the speaker to spout her bullshit. He was not calling for arrest and prosecution. And, I would posit from his very statement, he would not support arrest and prosecution of her or other Nazi poster wavers or chanters.

652 opnion  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:25:31am

re: #650 iceweasel

yeah, I know you were hoping to get muzzled with the phony gender impropiety, and failing that, to get the ball gag of socialism. ///

I'm spoken for. :)


Oh no & I had such high hopes.

653 Kragar  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:28:29am

re: #646 ~Fianna

I think the lowly pike is overlooked in anti-zombie preparedness.

Are you familiar with [Link: www.zombiehunters.org...] - great site about preparedness with less of the more objectionable aspects of many survivalist boards.

Is that a Lucerne Hammer in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

654 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:29:37am

re: #648 opnion

This started with me trying to find out if you were calling me a liar.
You refuse to answer for whatever reason,so I'll take that as a yes.

No, it started with you being an idiot and rightly being smacked down for it. Now you want to invent some kind of thing about me calling you a liar. Dude, you don't matter enough to me for me to even remember the conversation.

I've no idea who you are or what your opinions are and I evaluate you based on what you write at the moment. If I called out your comment as a lie it would have been because, well, you told or repeated a lie.

You, I wouldn't ever presume to make a character judgement on-- I don't know you. And i give the benefit of the doubt,-- so I don't think of you personally as a liar.

655 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:32:54am

re: #635 ckb

My opinion is that you can do 1) and 2) more effectively without ad-hominems. I certainly could.

Strictly speaking, Barney did not resort to ad-hominems. He politely inquired into the questioner's main place of residence (perhaps hoping she is not a constituent) and characterized her sign as vile. He then compared talking with her to debating an article of furniture, which he probably knows something about, having been in Congress for many years.

Ad hominem would be "you ignorant slut, someone with a wet-on for LaRouche and a bad haircut like yours wouldn't last three minutes in a real Nazi regime - now get out of here before your ugly starts breaking photo lenses and your crazy warps the time-space continuum."

And even I would never say something like that to a woman.

No, I wouldn't even suggest it.

656 ~Fianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:34:30am

re: #653 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Is that a Lucerne Hammer in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

Oh, my, that's... beautiful.

657 quickjustice  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:34:47am

re: #605 J.S.

Health care costs rise because the technology (including new drugs) gets more sophisticated and expensive, and there's more demand for health care services with an aging population.

The huge new breakthrough is genetic treatments, i.e., treatments based upon your genetic profile. Obama is desperate to kill that off, because the start-up costs are huge. Once we're past start-up, costs drop off dramatically, and medical treatment improves by orders of magnitude. We may never get there.

In other words, ObamaCare will destroy medical innovation in the name of cost-savings.

658 ~Fianna  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:35:50am

re: #657 quickjustice

Health care costs rise because the technology (including new drugs) gets more sophisticated and expensive, and there's more demand for health care services with an aging population.

The huge new breakthrough is genetic treatments, i.e., treatments based upon your genetic profile. Obama is desperate to kill that off, because the start-up costs are huge. Once we're past start-up, costs drop off dramatically, and medical treatment improves by orders of magnitude. We may never get there.

In other words, ObamaCare will destroy medical innovation in the name of cost-savings.

Most of that research is being done in the private sector.

659 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:36:49am

re: #655 Cato the Elder

Ok, this is where I would eloquently say this is why I love Cato as a poster, but I am laughing way too much to do so.

660 J.S.  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:44:53am

re: #657 quickjustice

I also suspect that most socialized medical programs have the inherent problem of destroying incentive, stifling innovations, etc. (the socialized option makes everyone "equal" but that also translates into an acceptance of a certain degree of mediocrity...)

661 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 11:47:06am

re: #659 iceweasel

Don't just think of me as a poster. I've got more than two dimensions! ;^)

662 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 12:12:30pm

re: #661 Cato the Elder

Don't just think of me as a poster. I've got more than two dimensions! ;^)

I reserve the option of treating you shallowly and heartlessly. :)

663 captdiggs  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 12:14:55pm

Democrats never had a problem when their supporters portrayed Bush as hitler for eight years.
Just more hypocrisy.

664 Deseeded  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 12:31:29pm

I'm not sure what is worse: LaDouchians, Code Pinkos, or Paulbots...

Right now the left is playing up that Communist LaRouche supporters at these townhall meetings with those Obama/Hitler signs are the Conservative Democrats/Republicans that are miffed over the heath care plan.

I saw some of those douches in Mass recently. The LaRouchians were outside with those signs pretending to be outraged while the leftist trolls were pretending to be insurance big wigs smoking cigars and chanting about how the health care system is terrible and it will destroy their mansions, yadda yadda.

665 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 12:33:20pm

re: #532 opnion

This is tedious. If you control the wages, you own the system, ergo Socialism.

No. It's not. Why do you think you can personally redefine a word or concept and everyone has to agree with you. Socialism is state OWNERSHIP of industry and business.

666 Throbert McGee  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 12:35:00pm
I’m not Barney Frank’s biggest fan (that would probably be him), but he handled this idiot with an "Obama = Hitler" sign exactly the right way.

Not quite, Charles -- the exactly correct response would've been for Frank to add something like "I assume you're visiting Earth from the same planet that all those BUSH = HITLER left-wing crazies came from back in the day."

But as zombie suggested, Frank is first and foremost a partisan who only objects when his own ox is bleeding.

Also, Sen Frank's likening the woman to a dining-room table -- apart from any question of being rude -- didn't even come within three time zones of actual wit, for the obvious reason that dining-room tables are recognizable (statistically speaking) for their habit of just sitting there and not making any noise at all.

Better would've been something like:

Arguing with you is like trying to argue with one of those pull-the-string See 'n' Say toys: H! The Heckler says "Nazi!"

Granted, I had the luxury of having three seconds to think that up while sitting relaxed at my desk, while Frank was in the glare of lights at a podium. Still, the "table" jab was mighty weak tea, even for something totally extemporaneous.

667 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 12:35:58pm

re: #541 Walter L. Newton

England, France, Germany = Democratic Socialist = nationalized health care ergo socialistic health care

Should I explain the logical fallacy in this or do you want to google it yourself. This does not equal this. Using your formula ...

England = Democratic Socialists = fish and chips ergo socialistic lunch time snack

668 Greengolem64  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 12:40:15pm

re: #540 Charles

Ad hominem attacks are exactly the proper response to a lunatic who carries Hitler signs and says things like "Nazi health care."

Treating this craziness like any other opinion is what got us into this sad state. We need more politicians who will stop treating the lunatics with kid gloves and make it clear that 1) they're crazy, and 2) their views deserve no respect from sane people.

First Charles...thank you.

Now, what you are saying is:

craziness = ad-homminem attacks or in-civility

I said nothing about kid gloves. I am in total agreement that the crazies do not deserve to be debated with...

And again...you are saying it is ok for our legislators to go postal on anyone deemed a loon...swell, so let the left label anyone who disagrees with the proposal as a loon then our legislators can get all ugly on anyone they want. If that is the case then don't get upset when these Town Halls get messy.

GG

DDA

669 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 12:41:35pm

re: #577 NelsFree

Dear Locker,

I disagree with your position on single payer. You may be willing to allow the Government to take money from you and spend it on someone else, "for the greater good". I prefer to keep my hard-earned money and spend it as I see fit; first for my greater good, then for the charity of my choice. My money, spend in the private sector, will boost the economy more than government spending the same amount.
/Too early to offer a beer

Respect. I've though that cop guy made it much too public I'd buy you a Blue Moon in a frozen mug any time.

670 J.S.  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 12:45:32pm

re: #667 Locker

Well, I don't know exactly what you're attempting to claim here. Are you claiming that the Canadian Health Care system is capitalistic? profit motivated? or that you can go to a physician (for obtaining some surgery) who's not getting paid by the government? That's not the case in Canada. You cannot go to a "private medical clinic", for example, and get a hip replacement. If you want to see or be treated by any doctor "outside the system", then you go to the United States.

671 Throbert McGee  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 12:45:50pm

re: #666 Throbert McGee

Not quite, Charles -- the exactly correct response would've been for Frank to add something like "I assume you're visiting Earth from the same planet that all those BUSH = HITLER left-wing crazies came from back in the day."

And NB: for Frank to have acknowledged the past idiocy of some of his own "natural constituency" on the progressive-left is not so much about being "fair" to his LaRouchite heckler -- that's the least important thing, actually -- as it is about preempting waste-of-time counterattacks from LaRouchites and Freepers whining "Oh, but the left-wing did the Nazi comparisons TOOO, during the Dubya years!"

672 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 12:58:46pm

re: #670 J.S.

Well, I don't know exactly what you're attempting to claim here. Are you claiming that the Canadian Health Care system is capitalistic? profit motivated? or that you can go to a physician (for obtaining some surgery) who's not getting paid by the government? That's not the case in Canada. You cannot go to a "private medical clinic", for example, and get a hip replacement. If you want to see or be treated by any doctor "outside the system", then you go to the United States.

I guess my point is this.. imagine the most capitalistic society you can possibly image and the only thing that's not purely 100pct capitalist is that they have single payer health care? Does this make them socialists?

Basically I'm trying to get the discussion away from general sweeping statements of dismissal to actual issues and components. I need no help or benefit of the constant mantra of ...

government = socialist, socialist = bad, anything with the word government in it is bad. The US does NOT have the greatest health care system in the world and things need to be discussed.

[Link: examiner.com...]


The truth is that Americans pay more for health care than any other country in the world and yet the health care Americans receive is ranked by the World Health Organization (WHO) 37th in overall performance and 72nd in overall level of health of the 191 nations included in the 2000 study. It's not all bad however, the U.S. is ranked high in catching rare cancers early.

In 2008, a report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the U.S. last in the quality of health care among the 19 countries compared. The United States has the highest infant mortality rate of all develped countries. And yet, the Commonwealth Fund reports that the U.S. "leads all industrialized countries in the share of national health care expenditures devoted to insurance administration.

The United States is the only wealthy, industrialized, developed country in the world that does not offer health care to all of its citizens.

These things are not going to be taken care of by "the free market" or the good will of insurance companies. The government IS the people. Looking forward and striving to improve is a good thing.

673 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 12:59:56pm

re: #668 Greengolem64

And again...you are saying it is ok for our legislators to go postal on anyone deemed a loon...swell, so let the left label anyone who disagrees with the proposal as a loon then our legislators can get all ugly on anyone they want. If that is the case then don't get upset when these Town Halls get messy.

See my #655, you ignorant slut.

674 Alberta Oil Peon  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 1:00:37pm

re: #618 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Then that's not the song I recalled. IIRC, that one was titled "Hesitation Blues", and had a VERY similar phrase at the end of each refrain. 1960's folk music, with one helluva claw hammer finger-picker artist.

"Hesitation Blues" was recorded by Hot Tuna, and that might be the one you are thinking of.

But it is indeed a very old song.

675 Locker  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 1:01:10pm

re: #673 Cato the Elder

See my #655, you ignorant slut.

How dare you call her Jane.

676 Alberta Oil Peon  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 1:03:27pm

re: #633 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

But anything other than a head shot which penetrates the skull is worthless, and thats not going to be easy with bow. Easier to use catchpoles or boar spears to stop the zombies, or just a wall and hit down using hammers or other pole arm type weapons allow gravity to do most of the work.

Seems to me that piano-wire snares on long poles would be effective.

677 thatemailname  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 1:07:55pm

Already been said, but she was a LaRouche Democrat: Sheila Leavitt, of Newton, Mass.

[Link: www.democraticunderground.com...]

[Link: vocalminority.typepad.com...]

678 Right Brain  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 1:11:16pm

I don't much like Frank but he hit it out of the park with that one.

Now where was he when the President was trying to liberate 23,000,000 people and others were comparing that President to Hitler?

679 garycooper  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 1:17:23pm

[Link: www.time.com...]

That interview with King...omigod, what a tool!

I love a lot of his books, too. He's bought into every noxious fiction the Left has to offer, with raging BDS.

680 J.S.  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 1:25:41pm

re: #672 Locker

I see. Actually, (this does get complicated) I agree that making a blanket statement that a government is "socialist", because it may adopt a single-payer system, would be an overstatement. But the single-payer system here in Canada is (as the founder of our Health Care system was a Socialist) socialist...(There are also very heated debates about how one assesses the quality of any health care system...and, to use only infant mortality rates as "the indicator" are problematic...and the reason why such an indicator could be problematic, is that you're catching a whole host of other factors which may be operating way, way outside of "health care." So, you'd have to drill down deeper to find out what lies behind the high infant mortality rates -- is it because the expectant mother didn't receive proper medical attention while pregnant? or is it due to, say, the mother is impoverished and malnourished, and even if medical care were available, she'd still be malnourished...A different indicator of what kind of system one has in place (in terms of measuring "quality") would be asking the question: "If X has a really, really rare disease, what happens?" (so, for example, even if you were a multi-multi Billionnaire, in Canada, with a rare disease, you just might be better off looking elsewhere for cutting-edge, medical treatment...and some of this simply has to do with higher populations and frequencies...)

681 doubter4444  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 1:29:02pm

re: #29 Coracle

Like Ron Paul is a Republican.

Not even.
Ron Paul is an elected member of congress representing the Republican party

682 ssn697  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 1:32:26pm

re: #678 Right Brain

I don't much like Frank but he hit it out of the park with that one.

Now where was he when the President was trying to liberate 23,000,000 people and others were comparing that President to Hitler?

That is politics in our country.

In 2003, Rpublicans amended 'Medicare to include end of life counseling. Now it is a "Death Panel" since Democrats are proposing it in their bill.

Obama admin sends drones into Pakistan, Democrats applaud.

the idea is that Americans are too stupid to pay attention. I say the majority of Americans ARE indeed willing to live at the level of political swine.

683 TMF  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 1:33:03pm

LaRouche may not be a dem, but his "positions" in the last election and for years now have been aligned nearly point for point with the far left, from get the troops out of Iraq, to attacking Bush/Cheney/McCain for being tools of Israel, to blasting AIG and the banking industry for "causing the recession".

He is far, far more aligned with the left and the left wing of the Dem party then he is with Republican causes.

684 doubter4444  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 1:34:41pm

re: #52 Gus 802

Lyndon LaRouche U.S. Presidential campaigns

#47 vs. #52 (quoted above): Cherry picking is a bitch, isn't it, NJD?

685 FrogMarch  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 1:38:04pm

I cannot stand Barney Frank - he's the ultimate economic illiterate. but he did handle this well. He was even funny.

686 doubter4444  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 1:40:08pm

re: #52 Gus 802

Lyndon LaRouche U.S. Presidential campaigns

I don't have the energy, but I feel like i should quote this as a reply to all convinced that because he registered as a Democrat, he somehow represents them en masse.
Thanks Gus

687 Picayune  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 1:52:36pm

re: #678 Right Brain

Busy - trying to prevent Bush/Mac/Repubs from reigning in or even investigating his pets, Fanny/Freddie, who under Franklin Raines - cooked the books (remember what happened to ENRON, Bush's friends for same???). The DEMS won that one, and now we're all paying for it.

Now he's busy blaming the global economic meltdown resulting from his DEM sponsored Fanny/Freddie housing scam/explosion on, wait, wait...Booosh!

At least he took down CNN on their inane claims of US MIL targeting journos.

688 doubter4444  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 1:54:18pm

re: #115 Coracle

Goalpost moving x2. Frank - > All Democrats - >The Left.

You asked whether Frank had come down on the Bush signs, and I answered with my own question, which still stands.

Individual Democrat's silence on that kind of display in the Bush years - especially if they're volunteering opinions on it now - does not speak well for them.

While, I don't like this type of argument, and while I think you have a valid point, I may just mention that I also do not see a lot of Republican leaders publicly decrying the Obama=Hitler meme right now.
I might have thought that after experiencing it, and screaming about it for years when it happened they would reject it, not condone it.

I know it's "tit for tat", "serves them right" I guess, but it also reeks of hypocrisy, and I, personally would prefer they (Republican leaders) would have taken the high road, it would give the opposition a hell of a lot less material to work with, would win the respect of moderates that are looking at the party now and shaking their heads, and is, in the final analysis, the right thing to do.

689 doubter4444  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 2:42:56pm

re: #563 Son of the Black Dog

Which is exactly why the Dems want to keep doctors, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, etc., in the private sector. That way they can still be sued, to the benefit of the tort bar. Not so if those entities are part of the government, where you get compensated for malpractice according to some schedule, or by government mandated binding arbitration.

I mean really, that's just silly.
The evil democrats only want line the pockets of the ambulance chasing lawyers.
Can you be any more simplistic, jingoistic and snide, or did you forget the / tag?

690 EaterOfFood  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 2:43:18pm

To those who believe Obama is Hitler, let me ask you this:

At what time has Obama called for a boycott of Jewish businesses?
At what time has he forbidden intermarriage between Jews and gentiles (opposing gay marriage doesn't count)?
Has he forced Jews to wear yellow stars in public?
Has he burned books?
When did he invade Poland and/or France, drop bombs on England, or violate a non-agression pact with Russia?
How many concentration camps has Obama built? How many were executed in those camps?
How many free speech rights have been lost under the Obama administration (hint: it's the same number as under the Bush administration)?

Keep in mind I am not defending, nor will I, Obama's actions so far. But unless you can answer all of these questions in the affirmative about anyone, then that person is not Hitler.

691 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 2:46:05pm

re: #668 Greengolem64

First Charles...thank you.

Now, what you are saying is:

craziness = ad-homminem attacks or in-civility

I said nothing about kid gloves. I am in total agreement that the crazies do not deserve to be debated with...

And again...you are saying it is ok for our legislators to go postal on anyone deemed a loon...swell, so let the left label anyone who disagrees with the proposal as a loon then our legislators can get all ugly on anyone they want. If that is the case then don't get upset when these Town Halls get messy.

GG

DDA

I don't think he "went postal" at all. He didn't yell or scream at her. He didn't have her arrested. He simply gave her Hitler garbage exactly the respect it deserved, i.e., none. When someone says "how can you support this Nazi health program," the proper response is indeed, "What planet are you from?"

I wouldn't have been as nice as Barney Frank, myself.

692 Hawaii69  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 3:40:46pm

re: #12 Occasional Reader

Frank's furniture metaphor is a sekrit code demonstrating that's he's a pawn of the new Ottoman Empire!

Rex Reed and Ruth Buzzy are both racing to hit the Gong
first...

693 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:17:18pm

re: #16 Charles

I see that some right wing blogs are actually saying she is a "Lyndon LaRouche Democrat," which verges on an outright lie.

LaRouchians are NOT Democrats. They're not really Republicans either, but in this issue they are attaching themselves to the Republicans, because the crazy is so strong they're attracted like moths to a flame.

LaRouchies are, in this Democrat's humble opinion, too crazy to be considered part of any functioning political party.

694 Marcus Dracon  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 8:48:51pm

Great comeback Barney.

695 danrudy  Wed, Aug 19, 2009 9:25:38pm
I see that some right wing blogs are actually saying she is a "Lyndon LaRouche Democrat," which verges on an outright lie.

LaRouchians are NOT Democrats. They're not really Republicans either, but in this issue they are attaching themselves to the Republicans, because the crazy is so strong they're attracted like moths to a flame.

re: #78 Charles

I said very explicitly that he is neither a Democrat nor a Republican.

Charles, in fairness, You said explicity they are NOT democrats. You said they are not really republicans either. ( that is less explicit then the democratic party denial) However, on this issue they are attaching themselves to the Republicans (thus, being republicans or acting as republicans).
One could conclude that you aligning these nuts more with republicans then with democrats (while saying they are neither) when their leader clearly chose to align himself with the Democratic party for whatever reason (regardless of whether the Democratic party agreed with his chosen affiliation re: #16 Charles

696 Scorch  Thu, Aug 20, 2009 5:05:09am

Barney made several inappropriate comments during that town hall but of course the focus is on this one person. It's a shame to see the arrogance of people like Frank being supported by some. Keep the blinders on and accept all our current overlords decide for we lesser peoples.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
4 days ago
Views: 137 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 303 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1