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Video: John McCain Quotes Chairman Mao

Politics • Views: 2,926

As Glenn Beck does his best impression of Joseph McCarthy and tries to get White House Communications Director Anita Dunn hounded out of office for quoting Mao Zedong in a speech at St. Andrews Episcopal School, all I can say is, “Uh oh.”

Youtube Video

(Hat tip: Dave Weigel.)

UPDATE at 10/16/09 12:13:05 pm:

Oh noes! Newt Gingrich is a commie too!

While Gingrich, who made his reputation by attacking the ethics of fellow Members, did call the House a “personable place” where colleagues use “friendship to minimize friction,” the overall theme of his remarks was downright martial.

Schools do a bad job of teaching students about Congress, said the former college history professor, because they emphasize lessons about how things get done, rather than how Members fight. The two houses of Congress, said Gingrich, are “arenas for conflict” where “we sublimate civil war to bring people together.”

Gingrich even quoted a political leader not previously known to be one of his influences. “War is politics with blood; politics is war without blood,” said the Speaker, citing the late Chinese Communist leader Mao Tse-tung. [Roll Call, 5/29/95 (accessed via Nexis)]

UPDATE at 10/16/09 1:01:27 pm:

Anita Dunn responds:

In an e-mail message, Ms. Dunn said, “My source for the Mao quote was actually the late Lee Atwater, either in an article or bio I read after the 1988 election. Now that I’ve revealed this I hope I don’t get Keith Olbermann angry with me. Let it be noted that I also quoted Mother Teresa, but no one is accusing me of being a saint!”

The speech she gave was a high school commencement address. Ms. Dunn says that the line about Mao and Mother Teresa was intended to be ironic – neither are political philosophers – and that she used it simply to illustrate a larger point about the importance of challenging the conventional wisdom.

In case you’ve forgotten who Lee Atwater was:

Harvey LeRoy “Lee” Atwater (February 27, 1951 – March 29, 1991) was an American political consultant and strategist to the Republican party. He was an advisor of U.S. Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush and Chairman of the Republican National Committee.

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568 comments

1 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:50:15am

Apples and oranges.

2 martinsmithy  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:50:28am

Beck probably thinks McCain should be hounded out of office too. He's obviously a dangerous RINO!

3 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:50:50am

re: #2 martinsmithy

Beck probably thinks McCain should be hounded out of office too. He's obviously a dangerous RINO!

Not to mention a commie.

4 Kragar  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:50:51am

Beck hates McCain anyways.

5 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:51:20am

re: #2 martinsmithy

Beck probably thinks McCain should be hounded out of office too. He's obviously a dangerous RINO!

He's already said Obama was a better choice than McCain.

6 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:52:38am

re: #3 Charles

Not to mention a commie.

Well, I mean, he was their guest for quite a long time.

Just sayin'

///

7 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:52:44am

re: #2 martinsmithy

Beck probably thinks McCain should be hounded out of office too. He's obviously a dangerous RINO!

He's probably going to start openly campaigning for Simcox and use this as one of the reasons.

8 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:53:13am

Everybody knows McCain is a RINO.

Sarah is the country's only hope.

(For comic relief, that is.)

9 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:53:45am

re: #6 Guanxi88

Well, I mean, he was their guest for quite a long time.

Just sayin'

///

Stockholm Syndrome!!1!

/

10 Martinsmithy  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:53:45am

re: #5 Sharmuta

He's already said Obama was a better choice than McCain.

IMHO, he's right on that one! Especially after McCain's amazing lack of judgment in his choice of a running mate.

11 Kragar  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:53:52am

I mean, come on now, Beck cries on national TV to show how much he cares. Its not like McCain ever did anything like that to fight communism.

///

12 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:54:09am

How's that campaign workin' out for Beck, anyway?

And does Kevin Jennings still have his job?

13 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:54:30am

Common quote, existed even before Mao. What were the ones Ms. Dunn used? If they were similar, it's much ado about nothing. If they were far more extensive, then that's different.

14 Martinsmithy  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:55:42am

re: #5 Sharmuta

He's already said Obama was a better choice than McCain.

Although in Beck's case, he probably said that because Obama has made him famous and wealthy! I doubt if Glenn Beck's ugly face would have made Time magazine's cover if John McCain were President today.

15 Equable  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:56:03am

Anybody who quotes Mao as a representative of their philosophy ... has issues in my book. To quote Chairman Mao:

"He with hand in his pocket feels cocky all day."

16 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:56:05am

re: #13 Honorary Yooper

Common quote, existed even before Mao. What were the ones Ms. Dunn used? If they were similar, it's much ado about nothing. If they were far more extensive, then that's different.

But clearly, John McCain has read Chairman Mao. Isn't that alone enough to convict him of being a commie?

/need I?

17 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:56:31am

re: #13 Honorary Yooper

Common quote, existed even before Mao. What were the ones Ms. Dunn used? If they were similar, it's much ado about nothing. If they were far more extensive, then that's different.

Hard to find without it being a video of Beck's show.

I don't know what the policy is regarding links to his show.

That is why Beck's buffoonery doesn't help.

18 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:56:31am

re: #13 Honorary Yooper

Common quote, existed even before Mao. What were the ones Ms. Dunn used? If they were similar, it's much ado about nothing. If they were far more extensive, then that's different.

How would that make it different? Would it make her unqualified for the position she holds?

19 Haole  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:56:43am

What with the progressives and their Mao Love?

20 akarra  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:58:08am

re: #2 martinsmithy

Beck probably thinks McCain should be hounded out of office too. He's obviously a dangerous RINO!

The hatred of many on the Right for John McCain is hard to underestimate: there are very few "conservatives" who actually think highly of him, and the venom leveled against him is really disgusting. I can't really think of any wingnut site that doesn't go out of his way to laugh at him or call Republicans traitors for being open to his positions: Hannity, for all his problems, is rather respectful of him.

In case no one remembers what John McCain did, a reminder.

21 AK-47%  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:58:27am

C'mon now, one of McCain's redeeming characteristics was a sense of humor, and this was just a small exapmple of it.

22 Kragar  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:58:45am

re: #16 Charles

But clearly, John McCain has read Chairman Mao. Isn't that alone enough to convict him of being a commie?

/need I?

But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow

23 arethusa  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:59:14am

re: #16 Charles

Beck should note that Newt Gingrich has also quoted Mao.

24 AK-47%  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 11:59:24am

Taking Tiger mountain by Strategy

25 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:00:14pm

re: #23 arethusa

Beck should note that Newt Gingrich has also quoted Mao.

Oh noes! Even Newt's a commie!

We're doomed! Aaaahhh! [run around screaming]

26 Bagua  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:00:57pm

You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You better free you mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
all right, all right, all right
all right, all right, all right
27 Equable  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:01:04pm

I agree... it was a rather poor choice of someone to quote for the sake of humor, but there is a rather enormous difference between cracking a tongue in cheek joke than to admire the worst mass murderer in history's ideology.

28 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:01:59pm

re: #24 ralphieboy

Taking Tiger mountain by Strategy

Great Flick, and Eno work, too!

Brigade of the Red Women
White Haired Girl

Yang ban xi, for those who ain't hip

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

29 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:02:13pm

re: #27 Equable

I agree... it was a rather poor choice of someone to quote for the sake of humor, but there is a rather enormous difference between cracking a tongue in cheek joke than to admire the worst mass murderer in history's ideology.

What does "history's ideology" mean?

30 captdiggs  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:02:26pm

re: #13 Honorary Yooper

Common quote, existed even before Mao. What were the ones Ms. Dunn used? If they were similar, it's much ado about nothing. If they were far more extensive, then that's different.

Ms Dunn's comments were quite different. She not only quoted Mao, she states that Mao is one of her two favorite philosophers.
That's a far cry from a boilerplate quote that's even older than Mao.

31 fizzlogic  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:02:36pm

Yeah but McCain did spend a lot of time having the Mao beaten into him. He probably has that little red book mesmerize.

32 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:03:03pm

re: #13 Honorary Yooper

Common quote, existed even before Mao. What were the ones Ms. Dunn used? If they were similar, it's much ado about nothing. If they were far more extensive, then that's different.

Here is the quote from the video:

A lot of you have a great deal of ability. A lot of you work hard. Put them together and that answers the "why not" question. There is usually not a good reason. And then the third lesson and tip actually comes from two of my favorite political philosophers: Mao Tse Tung and Mother Teresa, not often coupled together, but the two people that I turn to most to basically deliver a simple point, which is, you're going to make choices. You're going to challenge. You're going to say "why not." You're going to figure out how to do things that have never been done before.

But here's the deal — these are your choices. They are no one else's. In 1947, when Mao Tse Tung was being challenged within his own party on his plan to basically take China over, Chiang Kai Shek and the nationalist Chinese held the cities that had the army. They had the airport. They had everything on their side, and people said, "How can you win? How can you do this? How can you do this, against all the odds against you?" And Mao Tse Tung said, "You know, you fight your war, and I'll fight mine."

And think about that for a second. You don't have to accept the definition of how to do things, and you don't have to follow other people's choices and paths, OK? It is about your choices and your path. You fight your own war. You lay out your own path. You figure out what's right for you. You don't let external definitions define how good you are internally. You fight your war. You let them fight theirs. Everybody has their own path.

And Mother Teresa, who, upon receiving a letter from a fairly affluent young person who asked her whether she could come over and help with that orphanage in Calcutta, responded very simply, "Go find your own Calcutta."

OK? Go find your own Calcutta. Fight your own path. Go find the thing that is unique to you. The challenge that is actually yours, not somebody else's challenge. One of the things that we see the Obamas, both of them, Michelle and Barack, came out of backgrounds as community organizers, working.

Source

33 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:03:39pm

Tea Parties meet radical leftists...
Obama Supporters/Protesters in San Francisco

Just skip to about 2:00
Moronic convergence.

34 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:03:42pm

I knew it wouldn't be long before people dug up examples of Republicans quoting Chairman Mao too.

The simple fact is that Chairman Mao was a pretty perceptive political thinker. You can deplore what he did in China and still realize that not everything he wrote was the sheer embodiment of evil.

(I know, this is unthinkable to many on the right. But apparently not to Newt Gingrich.)

35 Equable  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:03:49pm

re: #29 Cato the Elder

Right I'll fix that.

...but there is a rather enormous difference between cracking a tongue in cheek joke than to admire the ideology of the worst mass murderer in history.

36 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:04:19pm

Look, you can quote anyone; problem comes from the purpose for the quotation, the use to which the quotation is to be put.

If you got the Chairman's Little Red Book on the corner of your desk and consult it for guidance in matters of policy, then there's a problem.

37 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:04:29pm

Is the right really reduced to trying to pick off minor administration officials since they clearly can't counteract any of the administration's policies? That is just sad, and it's not something any republicans can use in campaigning. What is the point in this?

38 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:05:15pm

re: #24 ralphieboy

Taking Tiger mountain by Strategy

That you, Brian?

39 Buck  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:06:46pm

What did Anita Dunn actually say? I can't seem to find it...

40 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:06:59pm

re: #13 Honorary Yooper

Common quote, existed even before Mao. What were the ones Ms. Dunn used? If they were similar, it's much ado about nothing. If they were far more extensive, then that's different.

"...the third lesson and tip actually comes from two of my favorite political philosophers, Mao Tse Tung and Mother Teresa, not often coupled with each other, but the two people that I turn to most to basically deliver a simple point which is you're going to make choices, you're going to challenge, you're going to say why not. You're going to figure out how to do things that have never been done before. But here's the deal, these are your choices, they are no one else's. In 1947, when Mao Tse Tung was being challenged within his own party on his plan to basically take China over Chiang Kai-Shek and the nationalist Chinese held the cities, they had the army, they had the airforce, they had everything on their side and people said how can you win, how can you do this, how can you do this against all of the odds against you, and Mao Tes Tung said you fight your war and I'll fight mine..."

For context.

The bolded is causing the stir.

41 Cato the Elder  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:07:07pm

Get ready for the real earth-shaker of the day.

Remember Ronnie Reagan of sainted memory saying "trust, but verify"?

He's always quoted as the originator of that sentiment.

Well, it turns out he stole it from Lenin.

Russ. Dowerjai, no prowerjai = precisely "trust, but verify". And it rhymes.

Ogodogodogod...

42 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:07:25pm

re: #40 Ben Hur

So what?

43 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:07:45pm

re: #39 Buck

What did Anita Dunn actually say? I can't seem to find it...

See #32.

44 Mocking Jay  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:08:04pm

re: #34 Charles

I knew it wouldn't be long before people dug up examples of Republicans quoting Chairman Mao too.

The simple fact is that Chairman Mao was a pretty perceptive political thinker. You can deplore what he did in China and still realize that not everything he wrote was the sheer embodiment of evil.

(I know, this is unthinkable to many on the right. But apparently not to Newt Gingrich.)

Even the most heinous individuals can offer us insight into the human condition. To think otherwise is ignorant.

45 captdiggs  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:08:16pm

re: #34 Charles

I am fairly sure that Mao's little red book was required reading at the US Naval Academy back when Mccain was a midshipman.

46 Equable  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:08:20pm

re: #42 Charles

So what?

So what? Dude... how many tens of millions of deaths was that son of a bitch responsible for?

47 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:08:33pm

It's just the latest nontroversy from Glenn Beck, and of course all the wingnut blogs immediately fall into lockstep with it.

48 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:08:54pm

re: #42 Charles

So what?

"So what?" what?

I was giving context.

It's not that she simply quoted Mao.

49 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:09:08pm

re: #46 Equable

So what? Dude... how many tens of millions of deaths was that son of a bitch responsible for?

Try reading what I wrote above.

50 freetoken  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:09:11pm

re: #32 NJDhockeyfan

Still shrugging my shoulders over all of this... so she finds that Mao had an insight on how to "win" in working toward his goals - that doesn't mean she endorses what Mao did in killing so many people. I suppose we could ding her for her lack of political sensitivity. or even for perspective on how her words ought to be chosen more carefully, but that doesn't mean she is actually a Maoist!

51 subsailor68  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:09:47pm

Hi Charles,
From the post text:

As Glenn Beck does his best impression of Joseph McCarthy and tries to get White House Communications Director Anita Dunn hounded out of office for quoting Mao Zedong in a speech several years ago,

The speech in question was made at the commencement in June 2009 at St. Andrews Episcopal School, held at Washington National Cathedral - here's a link to the announcement.

(Just in case there are nitpickers out there from Beck's research staff.)

52 Spider Mensch  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:10:13pm

why I quoted chairman mao just the other day...i said to my wife as we we're eating some chineses take out..
"What the hell is exactly in this egg roll anyhow???"

/I know, I know...Racist!!

53 Haole  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:10:15pm

" but the two people that I turn to most"

54 Equable  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:10:29pm

re: #49 Charles

I did and I don't care about Beck, it doesn't deflect from the fact that this lady idolizes Mao. Anybody who shares his mindset is just slightly creepy to me.

55 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:10:40pm

re: #51 subsailor68

Thanks -- corrected it.

56 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:10:53pm

re: #51 subsailor68

Beck has a research staff? I find that hard to believe after his rant about Rockefeller Center.

57 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:11:06pm

re: #50 freetoken

Still shrugging my shoulders over all of this... so she finds that Mao had an insight on how to "win" in working toward his goals - that doesn't mean she endorses what Mao did in killing so many people. I suppose we could ding her for her lack of political sensitivity. or even for perspective on how her words ought to be chosen more carefully, but that doesn't mean she is actually a Maoist!

The controversy is her statement that Mao is one of "my favorite political philosophers".

58 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:11:09pm

You really wanna make heads explode? Remind folk that Chiang Kai-shek was educated in the USSR under Stalin, that the Kuo Min Tang had many active and loyal Communists within its ranks, and that the KMT was, in most important respects, little more than a Soviet puppet until Chiang purged the Reds.

59 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:11:34pm

Unless this somehow is about the idiot Beck and not about someone with a senior position in a US administration that holds Mao Tse Tung as her favorite political philosopher.

60 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:11:42pm

re: #41 Cato the Elder

Get ready for the real earth-shaker of the day.

Remember Ronnie Reagan of sainted memory saying "trust, but verify"?

He's always quoted as the originator of that sentiment.

Well, it turns out he stole it from Lenin.

Russ. Dowerjai, no prowerjai = precisely "trust, but verify". And it rhymes.

Ogodogodogod...

Oh, noes! They're all tools of the New World Order!

61 ferris  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:11:44pm
tries to get White House Communications Director Anita Dunn hounded out of office for quoting Mao Zedong in a speech several years ago

Two things...

1- She didn't just quote Mao, she said he was one of her two favorite political philosophers. There's a big difference betwen them. I think given the treatmen McCain recived courtesy of Mao's allies, it's unlikely he thinks very highly of the chairman's philospohies.

2-The speech was earlier this year.

Beck is a clown (will all due appologies to clowns) but that doesn't change the facts of what Dunn said or when.

62 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:12:03pm

Nontroversy of the week.

63 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:12:05pm

re: #40 Ben Hur

Mother Teresa?

MCCAIN'S A PAPIST!

64 kittysaidwoof  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:12:58pm

It's darkest before its totally black? I think McCain is not quoting chairman Mao here nor showing any reverence to the communist tyrant. I think he is making a joke at his expense. This is quite different from calling Mao a favorite philosopher.

To clarify Dunn liking Mao's philosophy is not very important issue. WH starting a campaign to deligitimize news organizations critical of WH is much more serious. Although even on that point I think we're probably not yet at the junction where we need to start crying wolf.

65 subsailor68  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:13:02pm

re: #56 Sharmuta

Beck has a research staff? I find that hard to believe after his rant about Rockefeller Center.

Hi Sharm! LOL! You've got that right. Funny isn't it that recently Beck and O'Reilly have been touting their "best research staff in the business" stuff on a regular basis. Methinks they doth protest too much?

66 freetoken  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:13:28pm

re: #40 Ben Hur

"...the third lesson and tip actually comes from two of my favorite political philosophers, Mao Tse Tung and Mother Teresa, not often coupled with each other, but the two people that I turn to most to basically deliver a simple point which is you're going to make choices, you're going to challenge, you're going to say why not.

I bolded a different portion of the speech, which puts the emphasis on why she picked the two people she did! Note that she didn't say "to guide my ethics on how to treat people" or "to design my grand strategy for government takeover of your life", etc.

Rather, she is clear that she picked two people who were effective in simplifying what to many people would be a complex question.

67 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:13:29pm

She has a little more influence than Palin's ghost writer.

68 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:13:29pm

re: #56 Sharmuta

Beck has a research staff? I find that hard to believe after his rant about Rockefeller Center.

Oligarhy!

69 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:14:26pm

re: #67 Ben Hur

She has a little more influence than Palin's ghost writer.

And she's going to turn America commie. She must be stopped!!!1

70 Fiery Red XIII  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:14:46pm

re: #3 Charles

Not to mention a commie.

Charles, off topic, but you should see this. I emailed it to you also.:

[Link: www.tgdaily.com...]

It's a headline about the LHC and its breaking down when started. Just weird, and I have no idea how credible the site is. I've never heard of it.

Red

71 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:14:56pm

re: #66 freetoken

I bolded a different portion of the speech, which puts the emphasis on why she picked the two people she did! Note that she didn't say "to guide my ethics on how to treat people" or "to design my grand strategy for government takeover of your life", etc.

Rather, she is clear that she picked two people who were effective in simplifying what to many people would be a complex question.

Right.

She turns to them to make the point.

Who are they? Her favorite political philosophers.

72 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:15:07pm

Maybe if you tried weeping a little, Charles...

73 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:15:44pm

Islamists show up to help Geert...
Muslim Protesters Greet Dutch MP Geert Wilders - UK

Pics here

74 Kragar  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:15:46pm

re: #68 ArchangelMichael

Oligarhy!

OBAMA, now change the letters around and you get AROMA! Thats what all the stink is about!

///

75 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:15:49pm

re: #69 Charles

And she's going to turn America commie. She must be stopped!!!1

I didn't say that.

(for the record, I am NOT glen beck!)

I thinks it's effed up, but that's the administration we have.

76 louis  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:16:27pm

Charles,
You're not being fair here. It is one thing for McCain to quote Mao, it is quite another for Anita Dunn to say Mao is her favorite philosopher. Mao killed approximately 70 million of his own people. If Robert Spencer said his favorite philosopher was Adolf Hitler, you would be outraged, and rightly so. Mao shouldn't be the favorite anything of anyone in an American administration. Please read Charles Krauthammer today in the Washingotn Post and his brilliant article in the current Weekly Standard to get another perspective on this Administration. Thanks for letting me rant. We'll get to man made global warming another day.

77 spoosmith  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:16:38pm

re: #37 Sharmuta

Is the right really reduced to trying to pick off minor administration officials since they clearly can't counteract any of the administration's policies? That is just sad, and it's not something any republicans can use in campaigning. What is the point in this?

Death of a thousand cuts.

78 John Neverbend  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:16:57pm

I bought a copy of The Little Red Book in London's Chinatown, many years ago. It wasn't a very exciting read, I have to say, but I do remember the word "hegemony" came up quite a lot. Oh, and he referred to the US as "nothing but a paper tiger" and went on to say "all reactionaries are paper tigers." Now that I've quoted Mao, when do I spontaneously combust?

79 freetoken  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:17:09pm

re: #71 Ben Hur

Her favorite political philosophers.

Well... ok, then... tell us, what does " Her favorite political philosophers" mean that is riling so many feathers?

80 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:17:16pm

re: #70 Fiery Red XIII

A couple of scientists reckon that God or time travellers broke the Large Hadron Collider. The duo, who are, remarkably, still walking the streets, have published a paper claiming that the world’s largest particle accelerator, which failed a week after being switched on last September could have been broken by divine intervention or time agents from the future.


Lol, that story has been making the rounds for the past week or so.

81 Equable  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:17:57pm

re: #76 louis

Charles,
If Robert Spencer said his favorite philosopher was Adolf Hitler, you would be outraged, and rightly so. Mao shouldn't be the favorite anything of anyone in an American administration.

Quoted for truth.

82 albusteve  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:18:11pm

proof you can make pizza pie out of horse shit...

83 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:18:31pm

re: #79 freetoken

Well... ok, then... tell us, what does " Her favorite political philosophers" mean that is riling so many feathers?


re: #76 louis

Charles,
You're not being fair here. It is one thing for McCain to quote Mao, it is quite another for Anita Dunn to say Mao is her favorite philosopher. Mao killed approximately 70 million of his own people. If Robert Spencer said his favorite philosopher was Adolf Hitler, you would be outraged, and rightly so. Mao shouldn't be the favorite anything of anyone in an American administration. Please read Charles Krauthammer today in the Washingotn Post and his brilliant article in the current Weekly Standard to get another perspective on this Administration. Thanks for letting me rant. We'll get to man made global warming another day.

I know. We're doomed, clearly. The commies are in charge.

84 John Neverbend  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:18:58pm

re: #70 Fiery Red XIII

Charles, off topic, but you should see this. I emailed it to you also.:

It's a headline about the LHC and its breaking down when started. Just weird, and I have no idea how credible the site is. I've never heard of it.

This was also on Fark. I think the idea came from a sci-fi novel whose title I have completely forgotten where scientists in a doomed future try to send a signal to themselves in the past, telling them not to do something or other.

85 Dainn  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:19:38pm

I've read Moa's little read book. I own a copy.

Migod. Here I was, a dirty commie, and I never really knew it. And I don't even like wearing the color red! Sigh.

86 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:19:46pm

re: #79 freetoken

Well... ok, then... tell us, what does " Her favorite political philosophers" mean that is riling so many feathers?

It's the new right-wing political correctness. You're not even allowed to quote from commies, ever. Or it proves you're trying to destroy America.

87 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:20:35pm

re: #79 freetoken

You are aware of Mao Tse Tung's history, no?

88 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:20:51pm

There's a marxist behind every tree.

89 McSpiff  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:20:53pm

re: #86 Charles

It's the new right-wing political correctness. You're not even allowed to quote from commies, ever. Or it proves you're trying to destroy America.

We need a name for this phenomena, I wouldn't call it political correctness...ideological correctness maybe? Goodthink?

90 freetoken  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:21:09pm

re: #83 Charles

I know... it is so twisted.

First, we don't know how many "favorite political philosophers" she has... 2, 5, 50?

Secondly, this is a re-run of what Zombie did to Holdren, IMO.

It really shows that these self declared "conservatives" are so concerned with each little jot and tittle of every writing and utterance of their perceived enemy, yet are totally blind to the beams in their own eyes.

91 captdiggs  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:21:20pm

re: #79 freetoken

Well... ok, then... tell us, what does " Her favorite political philosophers" mean that is riling so many feathers?

Part of Mao's political philosophy was that “All political power comes from the barrel of a gun.” ( Yes, that is a direct quote)
To that end, millions were killed.

92 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:21:40pm

re: #76 louis

Charles,
You're not being fair here. It is one thing for McCain to quote Mao, it is quite another for Anita Dunn to say Mao is her favorite philosopher.

Uh, no. She said he was ONE of her favorite political philosophers. The other was Mother Teresa. And clearly Mother Teresa must be a commie too, because Anita Dunn wants to destroy America.

93 Equable  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:21:45pm

re: #86 Charles

It's the new right-wing political correctness. You're not even allowed to quote from commies, ever. Or it proves you're trying to destroy America.

Well no, I am personally alarmed that the White House Communication's Director admires a man who murdered 70 million people. It has nothing to do with the "red scare", Beck, McCain or any other tabloid piece. Those are red herrings.

94 reine.de.tout  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:22:04pm

re: #75 Ben Hur

I didn't say that.

(for the record, I am NOT glen beck!)

I thinks it's effed up, but that's the administration we have.

I believe if it had been me making that speech, I would have chosen to find one or more American historical figures to make the point she was making, rather than either of the two people she chose. I'm sure some exist.

On the other hand . . . I look at these things as "teachable" moments for my kid. I don't fear the exposure to people or ideas that I find abhorrent, because I can counter it, and I have faith in the intelligence of my daughter to look around her and draw her own reasonable conclusions, even when they aren't in total agreement with mine.

Which is what I think people should be looking to do, using their own brains to promote their viewpoint, rather than screaming about what somebody else did or how they did it.

95 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:22:20pm

re: #86 Charles

It's the new right-wing political correctness. You're not even allowed to quote from commies, ever. Or it proves you're trying to destroy America.

She is not merely "quoting him."

This is obviously about Beck.

96 Pawn of the Oppressor  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:22:22pm

re: #86 Charles

It's the new right-wing political correctness. You're not even allowed to quote from commies, ever. Or it proves you're trying to destroy America.

What is my gun-toting self going to do, now that I can't say "Political power comes from the barrel of a gun" anymore? *head explodes*

97 Dainn  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:22:33pm

I'm holding out judgement that Beck speaks for the Republican party. He certainly has a lot of them listening, but in the end Beck speaks for Beck's wallet.

Not that he has to to make me quit. I left the Republicans long ago when I realized that the "big tent" was really a religious revival.

98 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:22:34pm

re: #90 freetoken

I know... it is so twisted.

First, we don't know how many "favorite political philosophers" she has... 2, 5, 50?

Secondly, this is a re-run of what Zombie did to Holdren, IMO.

It really shows that these self declared "conservatives" are so concerned with each little jot and tittle of every writing and utterance of their perceived enemy, yet are totally blind to the beams in their own eyes.

She has two.

99 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:23:09pm

But hey, he made the trains run on time and ended unemployment.

100 BLBfootballs  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:23:25pm

I will not opine on whether or not Ms. Dunn should remain in her office.

But the contexts of respective quotes here are obviously completely different. McCain and Gingrich quoted one sentence in a pretty offhand manner. Dunn exponded upon Mao's words and announced that she had a special appreciation for his political philosophy.

101 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:23:48pm

Despite the comically bad headline this is a very sad story...
Murder suspect disapproved of his victims

A man stabbed and bludgeoned his sister and her husband to death in El Cerrito in 2006 because he thought the couple were too liberal, were raising their children wrong and because they hadn't invited him over for Christmas, a prosecutor told jurors Tuesday.

102 freetoken  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:24:15pm

What if I were to say that R.J. Rushdoony is one of my "favorite political philosophers"? Well, he is. Does that make me a proponent of the theocratic political beliefs of North et. al.?

I hope enough of you would be familiar with my posts over the last 3 years to know that I am not a proponent of a takeover of American politics by the North/Baldwin wing of American polity!

Yet Rushdoony was brilliant, and very insightful, and I admire and respect that. Doesn't mean I wish to work to carry out his agenda.

103 BLBfootballs  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:24:23pm

re: #100 BLBfootballs

I will not opine on whether or not Ms. Dunn should remain in her office.

But the contexts of respective quotes here are obviously completely different. McCain and Gingrich quoted one sentence in a pretty offhand manner. Dunn exponded upon Mao's words and announced that she had a special appreciation for his political philosophy.

That's "expounded".

104 Abu Kuffar  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:24:38pm

re: #89 McSpiff

Commiephobic groupthink

105 Kragar  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:25:09pm

Machiavelli on the proscribed reading list yet?

106 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:25:20pm

re: #49 Charles

Try reading what I wrote above.

Your own selective bolding, however, also fails to cover the actual intent of the sentence:

"...the third lesson and tip actually comes from two of my favorite political philosophers, Mao Tse Tung and Mother Teresa, not often coupled with each other, but the two people that I turn to most to basically deliver a simple point which is you're going to make choices, you're going to challenge, you're going to say why not."

You left out the portion I've bolded, which is the subject of the sentence; these are the examples she reaches for when trying to make the following particular point.

I'm not seeing much of a problem with these quotes. They support the point she is trying to make. Personally, I would have reached for similar statements by any number of other politicians - Teddy Roosevelt leaps to mind as a treasure trove of such utterances - but at the end of the day, she's not saying anything like "Let Communism reign! All hail Mao Tse Tung and the glorious Communist revolution!" Far from it.

What is it she's supposed to do in her present post, anyway? The history of selecting candidates for these positions is less than stellar so far. I'd guess that there's some actual examples of incompetence or inability to draw on, rather than resort to this Bircheresque appeal to a fear of communists beneath every bed.

107 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:25:29pm

re: #104 Abu Kuffar

Commiephobic groupthink

Because Mao was good?

108 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:25:31pm

I wasn't aware that Mother Theresa even was a political philosopher (despite her being heavily criticized by everyone's favourite Trotskyite atheist Christopher Hitchens).

As for Mao, people have been known to take his advice a little too far.

/Confucius say: Great Leap Forward, Long March Back

109 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:25:46pm

I think a big part of the current Mao-flap can be traced back to the Mao-style iconography adopted by many freelancers for Obama. It just rubbed a lot of people the wrong way; throw in someone, however tangential she may be, within the admin saying Mao constitutes 50% of her favorite political thinkers (probably as statement made for quasi-comedic effect, and, given the pairing with Mother Teresa, almost certainly so), and you've got a trigger for the anxieties of the wary. They're over-reacting.

110 Equable  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:26:05pm

re: #102 freetoken

What if I were to say that R.J. Rushdoony is one of my "favorite political philosophers"? Well, he is. Does that make me a proponent of the theocratic political beliefs of North et. al.?

Did he murder entire villages for not buying his books or for not home schooling their children?

111 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:26:18pm

re: #102 freetoken

Yet Rushdoony was brilliant, and very insightful, and I admire and respect that. Doesn't mean I wish to work to carry out his agenda.


Good point. Sun Tzu was probably an asshole too.

112 kittysaidwoof  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:26:40pm

Guys, its not a real quote. Its a joke.

113 Ferris  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:26:59pm

re: #86 Charles

It's the new right-wing political correctness. You're not even allowed to quote from commies, ever. Or it proves you're trying to destroy America.

That's not exactly what happened here, is it? She didn't merely quote him (and approvingly) but she said he was one of her two favorite political philosophers.

Those are two different things.

Now if Karl Rove had said Hitler was one of his two favorite political philosophers and quoted him approvingly you would be outraged and demanding his resignation.

And so would I.

It's not whehter of not "commies" are bad, it's that it's never cool to admire mass murderers.

Is that actually an unsettled question for you or others here?

114 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:27:05pm

re: #71 Ben Hur

Right.

She turns to them to make the point.

Who are they? Her favorite political philosophers...

...when she's attempting to make this particular point.

115 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:27:33pm

re: #114 SixDegrees

...when she's attempting to make this particular point.

Oy!

116 albusteve  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:27:36pm

re: #104 Abu Kuffar

Commiephobic groupthink

so you have no problem wearing a Che, the philosopher, tee shirt?

117 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:27:36pm

re: #106 SixDegrees

You left out the portion I've bolded, which is the subject of the sentence; these are the examples she reaches for when trying to make the following particular point.

I'm not seeing much of a problem with these quotes. They support the point she is trying to make. Personally, I would have reached for similar statements by any number of other politicians - Teddy Roosevelt leaps to mind as a treasure trove of such utterances - but at the end of the day, she's not saying anything like "Let Communism reign! All hail Mao Tse Tung and the glorious Communist revolution!" Far from it.

What is it she's supposed to do in her present post, anyway? The history of selecting candidates for these positions is less than stellar so far. I'd guess that there's some actual examples of incompetence or inability to draw on, rather than resort to this Bircheresque appeal to a fear of communists beneath every bed.

There's nothing offensive or communistic about the quote she used in her speech. In fact, if it weren't connected to Chairman Mao, nobody would have blinked an eye.

Nontroversy.

118 medaura18586  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:27:43pm
One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic. ---Joseph Stalin...

I've always found that an intelligent quote. It may have bearing on a discussion, and I may reproduce it. Does it make me a Stalinist? Hardly...

But if, on the other hand, I proclaimed that Joseph Stalin was one of my top two favorite political philosopher, "one of the people I turn to most," don't you think that would be a much more revealing and problematic statement?

This is the video clip of what Anita Dunn said (I know, it comes from Glenn Beck -- but he didn't put the words in her mouth, he is merely reproducing them, someone had to press the "record" button).

She is not merely quoting Mao; she is praising him, and declaring him one of her favorite political philosophers. She invites us to learn from his experience in taking control of China. And her remarks to this effect were not from "a few years ago," but rather from June of this year. And for any White House official to hold Mao as her favorite political philosopher, whom she turns to the most, is simply nauseating in my book.

119 Abu Kuffar  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:27:53pm

re: #107 Ben Hur

No, because wingnuts seeing commies literally everywhere is getting little boring.

120 Dainn  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:28:12pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout

Good point. Sun Tzu was probably an asshole too.

Most of the generals he fought against probably would have agreed.

121 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:28:14pm

re: #113 Ferris

That's not exactly what happened here, is it? She didn't merely quote him (and approvingly) but she said he was one of her two favorite political philosophers.

Those are two different things.

Now if Karl Rove had said Hitler was one of his two favorite political philosophers and quoted him approvingly you would be outraged and demanding his resignation.

And so would I.

It's not whehter of not "commies" are bad, it's that it's never cool to admire mass murderers.

Is that actually an unsettled question for you or others here?

It's not like Karl was saying he agreed with, you know, that other stuff, just that he made the trains run on time.

122 freetoken  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:28:32pm

re: #110 Equable

You're being willfully dense here. Dunn didn't say that she admired Mao for any of the murderous things he did/caused.

And, FWIW, Rushdoony was in favor (at least theoretically) of the death penalty for all sorts of sins, of which you have probably committed at least one.

123 McSpiff  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:28:36pm

In junior high I had class on propaganda . We read Mao, Marx, Hitler, Goebbels, Stalin, etc. We watched Triumph of the Will, and some Soviet film about the massacre in St. Petersburg that was a spark for the revolution. We had to look at each piece neutral, say what was done right, what was done wrong. Is this totally abnormal?

124 researchok  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:28:50pm

re: #92 Charles

Uh, no. She said he was ONE of her favorite political philosophers. The other was Mother Teresa. And clearly Mother Teresa must be a commie too, because Anita Dunn wants to destroy America.

On this, I'm half with you, Charles

Mother Teresa is about as far from Mao as you can get, philosophically and practically. That Dunn sees her ans worthy of emulation speaks well.

Dunn is also an idiot for citing Mao as a 'favorite', to be sure.

I don't see Dunn advocating for an American gulag or a cultural revolution that would kill millions, so how about we let her be an idioy every now and then?

125 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:29:12pm

re: #119 Abu Kuffar

No, because wingnuts seeing commies literally everywhere is getting little boring.

Mao was an actually Communist.

126 BLBfootballs  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:29:36pm

The reality is that Westerners are largely ignorant of the scope of Mao's evil. Part of that is because he ruled all the way out in east Asia, and another part is because of the romance and celebrity that Western leftists foamed up around Mao.

If, on the other hand, she had quoted approvingly from one of the paradigmatically evil Western political leaders (no need to name the famous ones here) I think it's pretty clear that she'd need to resign. IIUC the record shows that Mao murdered more people than any of the individual Western evildoers.

127 Kragar  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:30:13pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout

Good point. Sun Tzu was probably an asshole too.

Like Rommel, a magnificent bastard. I read their books.

128 Abu Kuffar  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:30:23pm

re: #116 albusteve

I was referring to Beck & co. using 'commie' as boogeyman about everyone not marching in lockstep with them

129 Bagua  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:30:29pm

Americans do not understand that Mao is a figure similar to Hitler to those who experienced his murderous repression.

As the oppression, mass murder, purges, starvation and other horrors of Mao's political career career happened to the "others" with their curious language and culture, we tend to overlook his place in the pantheon of vicious tyrants.

This is just like the popularity of the Che t-shirts, to those wearing the t-shirts, he is some romantic rebel guy, to those who suffered from his crimes, it is like seeing a picture of Charles Manson.

130 Abu Kuffar  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:30:44pm

re: #125 Ben Hur

I didn't deny that

131 Equable  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:30:52pm

re: #122 freetoken

You're being willfully dense here. Dunn didn't say that she admired Mao for any of the murderous things he did/caused.

And you're deflecting from the fact that it was these philosophies that were instrumental in the deaths of millions.

There is a difference between quoting a good point and aspiring to the dealings of a man who killed millions.

132 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:31:19pm

re: #130 Abu Kuffar

I didn't deny that

I know.

It was 1/2 snark.

It was sna.

133 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:31:20pm

re: #113 Ferris

That's not exactly what happened here, is it? She didn't merely quote him (and approvingly) but she said he was one of her two favorite political philosophers.

I don't see where she said that at all, unless you cut her sentence clause in half and ignore the subject - which is that these are the philosophers she reaches for when trying to make the following particular point.

I'll note, too, that her equal appreciation of Mother Theresa is being selectively ignored amidst the manufactured outrage, swept away like so much swarf in the rush to demonize.

134 kutabeach  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:31:37pm

Quoting from someone is dramatically different than saying that person is a favorite political philosopher.

It's not hard to understand.

Why would any freedom-loving person have a communist (and not just any commie, but Mao himself) as a "favorite political philosopher"?

135 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:31:50pm

re: #124 researchok

1/2 ding.

136 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:32:00pm

re: #118 medaura18586

But Joe Stalin is not known for being a political philosopher, and you'd be hard pressed to find very many other statements he made that are quotable.

Again, it's a point that people really don't seem to want to understand, but it's possible to read Chairman Mao and take away some perceptive points about politics, without admiring him as a person, or admiring what he did in China.

Nontroversy.

137 Dainn  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:32:03pm

The reds are everywhere. Here is the proof.

/Hide in your heads in the sand if you must...

138 kittysaidwoof  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:32:25pm

ne death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic. ---Joseph Stalin...

ugh, guys that is not a real quote either. That too is a joke - on Stalin. IIRC it was made up by Remarque. You obviously don't read communist literature.

139 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:33:06pm

re: #134 kutabeach

Quoting from someone is dramatically different than saying that person is a favorite political philosopher.

It's not hard to understand.

Why would any freedom-loving person have a communist (and not just any commie, but Mao himself) as a "favorite political philosopher"?

Obviously, there can be only one answer -- Anita Dunn wants to destroy America.

140 KingKenrod  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:33:23pm

re: #40 Ben Hur

"...the third lesson and tip actually comes from two of my favorite political philosophers, Mao Tse Tung and Mother Teresa, not often coupled with each other, but the two people that I turn to most to basically deliver a simple point which is you're going to make choices, you're going to challenge, you're going to say why not. You're going to figure out how to do things that have never been done before. But here's the deal, these are your choices, they are no one else's. In 1947, when Mao Tse Tung was being challenged within his own party on his plan to basically take China over Chiang Kai-Shek and the nationalist Chinese held the cities, they had the army, they had the airforce, they had everything on their side and people said how can you win, how can you do this, how can you do this against all of the odds against you, and Mao Tes Tung said you fight your war and I'll fight mine..."

It's a brain-dead comment, like praising Hitler for keeping the trains running on time.

Here's the kind of war Mao was fighting:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Beginning in May 23, 1948, the People's Liberation Army began to encircle the Nationalist defenders in Changchun while cutting off the air transportation and unfolded the siege that would last for 150 days. There were several major engagements and ten minor clashes between these two sides during the military encirclement and economical blockade. Civilians were forcibly prevented from leaving by the People's Liberation Army. As the fuel and food supply diminished, 160,000 civilians starved to death, leaving only 40,000 survivors[1]. The siege ended when the People's Liberation Army entered Changchun after the Nationalist 60th Army and New 7th Army surrendered. The Siege of Changchun was part of the Liaoshen Campaign, and the fall of Changchun marked the end of the first stage in Liaoshen Campaign.

141 subsailor68  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:33:26pm

re: #127 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Like Rommel, a magnificent bastard. I read their books.

Hi Kragar! Oh yeah! When I saw George C. Scott deliver that line on the ridge overlooking the battle, well, that's the moment Scott really became George Patton for me. Great film, great performance.

142 Equable  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:33:32pm

re: #136 Charles

Well then I'll just go run out and grab a copy of Mein Kampf to see what I can glean and enlighten myself with.

143 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:33:56pm

re: #118 medaura18586

My problem with this is it's yet another low level official that the right is nit picking about, and in reality this does nothing to advance conservatism. This is merely another target of the kookosphere's pot shot campaign. While we could certainly debate the point (and are) it does nothing at the end of the day to convince anyone that they want to elect republicans. It's another installment of *watch the birdie*.

144 Gearhead  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:34:29pm

re: #129 Bagua

Americans do not understand that Mao is a figure similar to Hitler to those who experienced his murderous repression.

As the oppression, mass murder, purges, starvation and other horrors of Mao's political career career happened to the "others" with their curious language and culture, we tend to overlook his place in the pantheon of vicious tyrants.

This is just like the popularity of the Che t-shirts, to those wearing the t-shirts, he is some romantic rebel guy, to those who suffered from his crimes, it is like seeing a picture of Charles Manson.

There's an excellent book on the subject.

145 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:34:49pm

re: #140 KingKenrod

It's a brain-dead comment, like praising Hitler for keeping the trains running on time.

Here's the kind of war Mao was fighting:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Beginning in May 23, 1948, the People's Liberation Army began to encircle the Nationalist defenders in Changchun while cutting off the air transportation and unfolded the siege that would last for 150 days. There were several major engagements and ten minor clashes between these two sides during the military encirclement and economical blockade. Civilians were forcibly prevented from leaving by the People's Liberation Army. As the fuel and food supply diminished, 160,000 civilians starved to death, leaving only 40,000 survivors[1]. The siege ended when the People's Liberation Army entered Changchun after the Nationalist 60th Army and New 7th Army surrendered. The Siege of Changchun was part of the Liaoshen Campaign, and the fall of Changchun marked the end of the first stage in Liaoshen Campaign.

Like Plato.

146 Equable  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:34:58pm

re: #142 Equable

What'd you down ding me for, by your logic that is perfectly reasonable.

147 Mr. Crankypants  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:35:06pm

This is another example of people looking for things. We are a pattern finding animal, which explains much of the sightings of pictures of Jesus in waterstains under overpasses, in toast, and whatever.

The people who are suspicious of Obama's administration are looking for things to confirm their suspicions because that way they can somehow synchronize their worldview with reality.

148 Abu Kuffar  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:35:08pm

Later, going to sleep

149 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:35:32pm

re: #29 Cato the Elder

What does "history's ideology" mean?

And where was the admiration?

150 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:35:48pm

re: #146 Equable

Because you're being willfully obtuse, and now becoming offensive to boot.

151 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:36:20pm

re: #117 Charles

There's nothing offensive or communistic about the quote she used in her speech. In fact, if it weren't connected to Chairman Mao, nobody would have blinked an eye.

Nontroversy.

Heh - love that word, nontroversy.

This sort of thing reminds me of the ridiculous exercise engaged in by The Bible Code - "Gawrsh! Iff'n we take every third syllable out'n her talk, 'cept fer a few special ones, an' stitch 'em all back together backwards, an' stick a few random words in th' middle taken from th' Apocoliptik parts of the Bible, then she's sayin' the President supports the Tri-latruhl Commission an' killin' all the white folk!"

152 kittysaidwoof  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:36:29pm

Stalin has as much right to be called a political philospher as Mao. He wrote quite extensively. I'd say Stalinism was in fact more influential as a political movement than Maoism.

"Leninism is Marxism of the era of imperialism and the proletarian revolution. To be more exact, Leninism is the theory and tactics of the proletarian revolution in general, the theory and tactics of the dictatorship of the proletariat in particular." --- Joseph Stalin

Now that is a real quote and not a joke.

153 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:36:29pm

re: #143 Sharmuta

My problem with this is it's yet another low level official that the right is nit picking about, and in reality this does nothing to advance conservatism. This is merely another target of the kookosphere's pot shot campaign. While we could certainly debate the point (and are) it does nothing at the end of the day to convince anyone that they want to elect republicans. It's another installment of *watch the birdie*.

She wasn't low level when she was attacking F-xN-ws.

154 iLikeCandy  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:36:35pm

re: #61 ferris
A little snipping . . .

She didn't just quote Mao, she said he was one of her two favorite political philosophers. There's a big difference betwen them. I think given the treatmen McCain recived courtesy of Mao's allies, it's unlikely he thinks very highly of the chairman's philospohies.


Yes. There's a difference between holding Mao as a favored philosopher and "quoting" -- actually more like attributing -- some Devil's Dictionary-type quip that most certainly does not typify Mao.

If Dunne wanted to glorify those who overcome extraordinary challenges, she might have cited the flea-bitten, frozen, outnumbered American Revolutionaries, who took on the world's greatest military.

155 MandyManners  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:36:37pm

What Mark Lloyd, the new diversity chief at the FCC, said about Hugo Chavez:

MARK LLOYD: In Venezuela, with Chavez, you really had an incredible revolution -- democratic revolution -- to begin to put in place things that were going to have impact on the people of Venezuela. The property owners and the folks who were then controlling the media in Venezuela rebelled -- worked, frankly, with folks here in the US government -- worked to oust him. He came back and had another revolution, and Chavez then started to take the media very seriously in his country.

Yes, the link--which I got here--is to Rush talking with Beck.

[Link: www.rushlimbaugh.com...]

I *think* that the speech is recorded here.

Click on the audio link.

[Link: www.freepress.net...]

156 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:36:41pm

The important thing, though, is that Dunn sees inspiration for fortitude in the face of opposition and challenges in the bloody record of Mao and in the Christian pacificism of Mother Teresa. It's nice to know that she can gain such a trivial insight from one of history's worse butchers and a true humanitarian, and we are certainly fortunate that she's in a position to direct our attention to such valuable lessons.

157 Mr. Crankypants  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:37:22pm

re: #151 SixDegrees

Just finished reading the Lost Symbol and it was more of the same, only more convoluted.

Brown does write a good page turner, though.

158 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:37:50pm

re: #134 kutabeach

Quoting from someone is dramatically different than saying that person is a favorite political philosopher.

It's not hard to understand.

Why would any freedom-loving person have a communist (and not just any commie, but Mao himself) as a "favorite political philosopher"?

She didn't say that. It's a painted-into-the-corner response from those caught in a flat-footed lie, that completely tosses out the subject of the sentence in question in hopes of constructing another sentence she never actually spoke.

159 Dainn  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:37:59pm

re: #142 Equable

Well then I'll just go run out and grab a copy of Mein Kampf to see what I can glean and enlighten myself with.

If you haven't read it you should. Never turn a blind eye to evil. Know your enemy.

160 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:38:03pm
161 freetoken  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:38:26pm

re: #131 Equable

There is a difference between quoting a good point and aspiring to the dealings of a man who killed millions.

You're really milking the word "favorite" for more than it is worth.

Indeed, from the video that was posted by Medura, we see that when she delivered the speech the crowd reacted as expected, that it was indeed strange to find commonality between Mao and and Mother Theresa. That was the point, at least looking at it as a homily. Both Mao and Mother Theresa had a common thinking process as far as following one's own path. That is what Dunn said, that is what Dunn meant, and to try and read anything more into that really is reading too much into the speech.

162 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:38:39pm

The exercise in syllabic assassination taking place on this topic is wearying me. I think I'll go drink for a while.

163 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:38:41pm

re: #160 Equable

That'll do it. Bye now!

164 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:38:57pm
165 Mr. Crankypants  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:39:22pm

re: #153 Ben Hur

See this is what the real problem is..not that she quoted Mao, but that she dared to say out loud what most people already know.

Fox News is the media arm of the GOP. Not the sensible, pragmatic GOP, but the quanomanic, paranoid, tinfoil hat GOP.

166 McSpiff  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:39:30pm

re: #163 Charles

And I was just getting a big counter post ready... Ah well.

*Goes back to reading Lenin*

167 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:39:46pm

No doubt, one could also gain valuable insight into the organization of political movements from, say, Pol Pot. Yes, whenever I wish to make an important, or even trivial point, I always try to find a famous butcher and tyrant to illustrate it.

168 Ferris  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:40:14pm

re: #133 SixDegrees


I don't see where she said that at all, unless you cut her sentence clause in half and ignore the subject - which is that these are the philosophers she reaches for when trying to make the following particular point.

Have you watched the clip?

She says,


the third lesson and tip actually comes from two of my favorite political philosophers: Mao Tse Tung and Mother Teresa, not often coupled together, but the two people that I turn to most to basically deliver a simple point,

Which part of "two of my favorite political philosohpers: Mao Tse Tung and Mother Terresa" are you confused by?

That appreciation of Mao is not based on the particular point she is making but rather her stated belief.

Due her the honor of taking her at her word about who two of her "favorite political philosophers" are.

169 medaura18586  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:40:46pm

re: #136 Charles

But Joe Stalin is not known for being a political philosopher, and you'd be hard pressed to find very many other statements he made that are quotable.

Again, it's a point that people really don't seem to want to understand, but it's possible to read Chairman Mao and take away some perceptive points about politics, without admiring him as a person, or admiring what he did in China.

Nontroversy.

I didn't know that Mother Theresa was a political philosopher at all! Who is a political philosopher to someone may barely or not-at-all qualify as such to another. Stalin did fancy himself a political philosopher, some may find less merit in his designation as such than they may find in Mao's. Subjective taste... I challenge anyone to produce "very many other statements" Mao made too, which are quotable and non communistic/totalitarian. What is equatable and non-controversial about Mao seems like a recycling of Sun Tzu and Machiavelli -- as an original thinker Mao falls short in every respect. The world has known many great political philosophers, since antiquity to modernity... to pick Mao as the best of that cannon is disgusting, no matter the spin. Anything admirable or quotable in his writing can be largely attributed to past authors to whom he was indebted. The rest of it, the bulk of it, is dictatorial trash. Anita's remarks were off-putting, to put it mildly.

I don't see how McCain's or Gingrich's quotes parallel her stated admiration for Mao in any way -- and I am no fan of either Republican man.

170 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:40:55pm

Well according to my copy of the "little red book" criticism is a part of the Marxist dialectical method which is central to Party improvement; as such, communists must not fear it, but engage in it openly...

Hmm, maybe thats it, Glenn Beck is really a secret disciple of the Chairman and just following his wisdom. After all he hasn't denied it yet, has he?

171 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:41:01pm

re: #166 McSpiff

And I was just getting a big counter post ready... Ah well.

*Goes back to reading Lenin*

I knew it! I knew it!

172 doubter4444  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:41:21pm

re: #48 Ben Hur

"So what?" what?

I was giving context.

It's not that she simply quoted Mao.

She used a quote to make a point. I think when you read it, it makes sense, and the stir is about nothing.
Do you?
Or do you think there is relevance in the uproar?

173 davesax  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:41:27pm

re: #139 Charles

Pat Buchanan has made some very perceptive points (in his books) about outsourcing of jobs and the disappearance of the middle class.

But I wouldn't quote him, and I feel uncomfortable if anyone does.

So, I still don't understand why Dunn did this. I think it's pretty odd for a thinking person to do.

But in the end, it's not important. Nor is it keeping me up at night.

I really care more about the Obama administration propping up J-Street by sending Jim Jones to be its keynote speaker.

That's pretty lame.

174 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:42:15pm

re: #165 PT Barnum

See this is what the real problem is..not that she quoted Mao, but that she dared to say out loud what most people already know.

Fox News is the media arm of the GOP. Not the sensible, pragmatic GOP, but the quanomanic, paranoid, tinfoil hat GOP.

I will agree that's the reason that Beck is exposing this.

175 medaura18586  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:42:15pm

re: #169 medaura18586

pimf/spell-check run amok: What is quatable and non-controversial about Mao ...

176 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:42:27pm

re: #169 medaura18586

Is this really how you want to start judging politicians -- by their favorite philosophers?

177 kittysaidwoof  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:42:44pm

For the benefit of those who haven't read communist literature Stalinism = Marxism-Leninism - the most influential communist movement in Europe. Killed plenty of people too.

Maoism is the Chinese version of Marxism-Leninism, i.e. Stalinism. Since Mao was a student of Stalin I think its pretty unfair to say Stalin wasn't known as political philosopher.

178 abbyadams  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:42:53pm

re: #86 Charles

Political correctness to suit one's ideology/agenda. Wow.

179 MPH  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:42:55pm

re: #136 Charles

re: #139 Charles

Obviously, there can be only one answer -- Anita Dunn wants to destroy America.

Is that really the only obvious answer?

Take what she said seriously for a minute and consider the kind of person who cites Mao and Mother Teresa as their favorite political philosophers.

Words that come to mine:
Totalitarianism
Sacrifice
Submission
Altruism
Suffering
Dictatorship
Sadism

180 McSpiff  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:43:45pm

re: #179 MPH

Well read?

181 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:44:06pm

re: #172 doubter4444

She used a quote to make a point. I think when you read it, it makes sense, and the stir is about nothing.
Do you?
Or do you think there is relevance in the uproar?

I think it's relevant that she holds Mao as one of her favorite political advisors.

Do I think she wants a Maoist revolution in the US? No.

Do I think this is Beck's "revenge." Yes.

Is Beck a moron? Yes.

182 Mr. Crankypants  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:44:17pm

re: #168 Ferris

She said "...two of my favorite philosophers..." Meaning she has more than just the two.

I would want to see the entirety of her political philosopher hit parade before I'd be willing to extrapolate that into an admiration for evil.

183 Kragar  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:44:36pm

re: #176 Charles

Is this really how you want to start judging politicians -- by their favorite philosophers?

I'm screwed.

184 freetoken  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:44:37pm

Well, I've got to run and make some photos... so I can't continue with this thread, but it seems to me that the culture of common intercourse in this country has taken another step downwards.

Woe to America.

/off to test some film

185 McSpiff  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:44:40pm

re: #171 Guanxi88

I knew it! I knew it!

If you can overthrow an empire you better believe I'll read what you have to say.

186 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:45:12pm

re: #185 McSpiff

If you can overthrow an empire you better believe I'll read what you have to say.

Eh, kirinski did that. Lenin was just more bloody-minded than the others.

187 Dainn  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:45:46pm

Judging by the current class of congress, I think their favorite political philosopher is Spongebob.

188 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:45:47pm

re: #184 freetoken

but it seems to me that the culture of common intercourse in this country has taken another step downwards.

What are, swingers, now?

189 freetoken  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:46:24pm

re: #168 Ferris

Due her the honor of taking her at her word about who two of her "favorite political philosophers" are.

So then you believe I must be part of a theocratic cabal because R.J. Rushdoony is one of my favorite 20th century American political-philosophy writers?

190 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:46:25pm

Watch: there are going to be more examples coming out of Republicans quoting Chairman Mao. Anyone seriously interested in global events and politics will have read Mao's writings, and I really hate to tell you this -- but it's not all sheer evil.

What Mao did in China and the policies he enacted that resulted in mass murder -- that was evil. I agree on that. What he wrote about politics was often perceptive in the same way Machiavelli's writing was perceptive.

191 philosophus invidius  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:46:57pm

What I'm offended by is her praise of Mother Teresa, a fanatic, a fundamentalist, and a fraud.

192 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:47:21pm

re: #176 Charles

Is this really how you want to start judging politicians -- by their favorite philosophers?

I guess that depends on how many deaths they are responsible for.

193 Dar ul Harb  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:47:30pm

Just admiring the Great Helmsman's ability to perservere through adversity and against overwhelming odds to achieve political revolution... er, Change.

As opposed to, say, George Washington.

/to name an example at random

194 davesax  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:47:54pm

re: #191 philosophus invidius

Yeah, Hitch hates MT.

195 MPH  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:48:14pm

re: #173 davesax

Pat Buchanan has made some very perceptive points (in his books) about outsourcing of jobs and the disappearance of the middle class.

Pat Buchanan's anti-trade stance is anything by perceptive...it is contrary to reality.

196 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:48:43pm

re: #153 Ben Hur

She wasn't low level when she was attacking F-xN-ws.

This advances conservatism how?

197 Ferris  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:48:52pm

re: #182 PT Barnum

What's the body count have to be before a mass murdering dictator qualifies as evil?

198 Ferris  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:49:31pm

re: #189 freetoken

So then she was just goofing?

That's your take on it?

199 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:49:36pm

re: #192 Ben Hur

I guess that depends on how many deaths they are responsible for.

Wow.

That was downdinged.

Defending Mao's over his 70 million?

200 doubter4444  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:49:53pm

re: #161 freetoken

You're really milking the word "favorite" for more than it is worth.

Indeed, from the video that was posted by Medura, we see that when she delivered the speech the crowd reacted as expected, that it was indeed strange to find commonality between Mao and and Mother Theresa. That was the point, at least looking at it as a homily. Both Mao and Mother Theresa had a common thinking process as far as following one's own path. That is what Dunn said, that is what Dunn meant, and to try and read anything more into that really is reading too much into the speech.

THAT is the point.
That's how I read it.
But it's better to hyperventilate.
(Getting dizzy is fun!)

201 medaura18586  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:49:55pm

re: #176 Charles

Is this really how you want to start judging politicians -- by their favorite philosophers?

Actually, yes. Favorite philosophers give me much greater insight into what motivates and influences a politician than their platitudes. No one can fully appreciate my own political philosophy without taking into consideration the great impact Cicero's works, Machiavelli's, Jefferson's and Franklin's have exerted on my intellectual development. I recognize greatness in them, try to improve upon it, and to deny that they influence my worldview would eb ludicrous.

If I ever became a politician -- not gonna happen, you can all breathe easier now -- my favorite authors and philosophers should be the first source to be consulted by anyone interested in what makes me tick and what I value...

Anita may hold no influence in the White House, pointing out that to admire Mao is deplorable may do nothing to boost the Republicans' standing (I couldn't care less about it, since I'm not rooting for the Repubs myself), but in and of itself, her stated admiration of Mao as a political philosopher is not above criticism. And yes, I do maintain that influences in the realm of political philosophy are acutely relevant to someone's formation.

202 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:49:59pm

Nontroversy is a good term. One more shiny object that distracts from the real debates we should be having over the proper role of the federal government and how much we want to grow it.

The white house shares some of the responsibility for being drawn into the peeing contest with Fox news and raising the profile of their critics.

What we have between the right and left is competing ideologues. The left is taking their turn at power and the right is taking their turn being the shrill opposition.

203 ~Fianna  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:50:06pm

re: #102 freetoken

What if I were to say that R.J. Rushdoony is one of my "favorite political philosophers"? Well, he is. Does that make me a proponent of the theocratic political beliefs of North et. al.?

I hope enough of you would be familiar with my posts over the last 3 years to know that I am not a proponent of a takeover of American politics by the North/Baldwin wing of American polity!

Yet Rushdoony was brilliant, and very insightful, and I admire and respect that. Doesn't mean I wish to work to carry out his agenda.

Same with Machiavelli. Look around a business book section some day. Machiavelli in the Boardroom, Machiavelli for Women, Machiavelli for Marketers... that doesn't mean that people think that poisoning their rivals is a good business strategy.

204 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:50:52pm

re: #196 Sharmuta

This advances conservatism how?

That's a Beck question. And the answer is that if he touches it, it won't.

205 philosophus invidius  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:51:06pm

re: #195 MPH

Well, maybe Beck should be happy that 50% of her political philosophy comes from a woman who declared, in accepting the Nobel Peace Prize, that abortion is "the greatest destroyer of peace." Now that's a philosophy I think Beck can endorse.

206 Dainn  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:51:20pm

re: #190 Charles

This is my perspective on much of communist thought. If it could work, it would be great. The only problem is that we are talking about humans, and in the end self interest destroys communism.

There is a distinct anti-intellectualism here. Frankly, I wan't my politicians in DC to have read Mein Kampf and Moa's little red book, not to mention Neitzsche, Ayn Rand. Since when is being intellectual a bad thing?

207 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:51:23pm

re: #143 Sharmuta

My problem with this is it's yet another low level official that the right is nit picking about, and in reality this does nothing to advance conservatism. This is merely another target of the kookosphere's pot shot campaign. While we could certainly debate the point (and are) it does nothing at the end of the day to convince anyone that they want to elect republicans. It's another installment of *watch the birdie*.

This pretty much my take on this as well for the most part. Mao was a bastard, not someone to be admired at all. I've also heard enough commentary on Mother Theresa to consider holding that suspect as well. Regardless, this woman is a low level White House staffer. Basically a PR spokeshole. Not involved in any executive decision making or legislation. The kookosphere is acting as though Obama or Pelosi said this, and in relation to actions they were planning on taking. That is asinine. I'm sure some questionable opinions of 'political philosophers' could have been found had Bush Administration lackeys been asked as well.

The outrage is WAY out of proportion to the "offense" and I'm getting tired of all the crying wolf and 'watch the birdie' that these idiots are doing.

208 emorykid10  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:51:29pm

hey, charles,

are we not gonna distinguish between quoting (McCain, Newt) and lauding (Dunn) Mao?

209 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:51:33pm

re: #204 Ben Hur

That's a Beck question. And the answer is that if he touches it, it won't.

Right- it's kook fodder.

210 Louis  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:51:46pm

Charles,
#92 I never said Anita Dunn or President Obama were commies. I also never said that we were doomed, those were your words. I merely said it is disturbing that an Administration official has Mao as ONE of her favorite philosophers. It is equally disturbing that more people aren't disturbed by that. It would be just as problematic if a politician said one of her favorite political philosophers was Machiavelli - and he didn't kill 70 million people. This is about Mao's being a murderer, not a communist.

211 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:52:00pm

re: #181 Ben Hur

I think it's relevant that she holds Mao as one of her favorite political advisors.

Do I think she wants a Maoist revolution in the US? No.

Do I think this is Beck's "revenge." Yes.

Is Beck a moron? Yes.

Putting words in her mouth.

212 ~Fianna  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:52:26pm

re: #123 McSpiff

In junior high I had class on propaganda . We read Mao, Marx, Hitler, Goebbels, Stalin, etc. We watched Triumph of the Will, and some Soviet film about the massacre in St. Petersburg that was a spark for the revolution. We had to look at each piece neutral, say what was done right, what was done wrong. Is this totally abnormal?

Actually, it's a brilliant education. No better way to learn how to see through propaganda than to study it critically

Unless you can tell why it's good, you can't know why it works.

213 McSpiff  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:53:04pm

re: #199 Ben Hur

No, I downdinged it because I honestly don't see a relation between someone's writings and their body count. If Mao was able to accurately capture the mood of the populace at the time of the Chinese revolution, to really describe the human mindset then he's a good political philosopher, regardless of what he did with that knowledge. For me... it's like Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Books and ideas don't kill people, people do.

214 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:53:08pm

re: #211 dugmartsch

Putting words in her mouth.

I am or or Beck is?

215 medaura18586  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:53:25pm

re: #211 dugmartsch

Putting words in her mouth.

You obviously did not hear her words. Check them out for yourself.

216 Mr. Crankypants  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:53:26pm

re: #197 Ferris

You miss my point entirely and disingenuously.

You seem to want to extrapolate one quote into an entire worldview rather than addressing the picture as a whole. One is reminded of motes in others' eyes while ignoring logs in your own.

217 subsailor68  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:53:46pm

re: #176 Charles

Is this really how you want to start judging politicians -- by their favorite philosophers?

LOL!! Yeah! Could be cool:

Anita Dunn: Mao Tse Tung and Mother Teresa
Tim Geithner: Um, John Maynard Keynes and Suze Orman
John Kerry: Gee, Sun City and George S. Parton
(Uh, senator, don't you mean Sun Tzu and George Patton?)
John Kerry: Who?
Sarah Palin: Popeye. I yam what I yam. Deep stuff.

218 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:54:34pm

re: #213 McSpiff

No, I downdinged it because I honestly don't see a relation between someone's writings and their body count. If Mao was able to accurately capture the mood of the populace at the time of the Chinese revolution, to really describe the human mindset then he's a good political philosopher, regardless of what he did with that knowledge. For me... it's like Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Books and ideas don't kill people, people do.

His body count was there to achieve the philosophy in his book.

Unless you would argue that Mein Kampf and the like are irrelevant.

219 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:54:38pm

re: #214 Ben Hur

I am or or Beck is?

I meant you, unless calling Mao a political adviser was a quote from Beck.

220 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:55:31pm

re: #203 ~Fianna

Same with Machiavelli. Look around a business book section some day. Machiavelli in the Boardroom, Machiavelli for Women, Machiavelli for Marketers... that doesn't mean that people think that poisoning their rivals is a good business strategy.

I think it is a bit clumsy to quote people who can be used against you as a "guilt by association" fallacy. This applies to any leader of any party.

Mussolini kept the trains running on time but I'm not sure I'd quote him as an efficiency expert.

...that doesn't take away from the fact that this is much ado about nothing and a huge p---ing contest. Fox and the White House should both know better.

221 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:55:32pm

re: #196 Sharmuta

This advances conservatism how?

It isn't about "advancing" anything -- it's about destroying enemies.

222 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:56:36pm

re: #219 dugmartsch

I meant you, unless calling Mao a political adviser was a quote from Beck.

No! LOL!

Sorry!

I didn't mean "adviser!"

That was a brain fart!

I meant philosopher.

Thanks for pointing that out.

223 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:56:58pm

re: #221 Charles

It isn't about "advancing" anything -- it's about destroying enemies.

Sounds a little like Rules for Radicals.

224 McSpiff  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:57:40pm

re: #218 Ben Hur

Not irrelevant. But I dont think reading Mein Kampf will make you a mass murderer. Now, if you are a mass murderer and you read Mao, Hitler, Machiavelli and maybe something about Bismarck and FDR, you might be a more effective mass murderer. Books are tools in my mind.

225 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:58:08pm

re: #223 Sharmuta

Sounds a little like Rules for Radicals.

No point, though, in pointing out the influence the book has had on anyone who subscribes to its principles, though.

226 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 12:59:32pm

re: #211 dugmartsch

Putting words in her mouth.

These were the words from her mouth: "two of my favorite political philosophers: Mao Tse Tung and Mother Teresa"

However, it was in the context of admiring his tenacity not his murderous reign.

Still - a clumsy thing to do.

227 Buck  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:00:28pm

Does anyone really understand what Anita Dunn is saying she understands from her quote?

I am not sure, but I think she is saying that she doesn't feel like she should worry about what anyone else thinks, and just push forward with what she thinks is right.

It is not really clear... what she might take from that quote. Mao, we know was talking about actual war. I just don't get what she means.

228 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:00:35pm

re: #224 McSpiff

Not irrelevant. But I dont think reading Mein Kampf will make you a mass murderer. Now, if you are a mass murderer and you read Mao, Hitler, Machiavelli and maybe something about Bismarck and FDR, you might be a more effective mass murderer. Books are tools in my mind.

You don't see the relation between Mao's philosophy and the 70 million dead from him enacting his philosophy?

229 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:00:54pm

re: #226 DaddyG

These were the words from her mouth: "two of my favorite political philosophers: Mao Tse Tung and Mother Teresa"

However, it was in the context of admiring his tenacity not his murderous reign.

Still - a clumsy thing to do.


AT BEST. DFor someone whose life is specializing in communications, in a written prepared speech she was reading from (not an off the cuff remark)

230 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:01:02pm

re: #223 Sharmuta

Sounds a little like Rules for Radicals.

Perhaps if Alisky would have titled that book Rules for DFHs or Rules for Communist Revolutionary Insurgents, we wouldn't be putting up with this garbage now.

Who am I kidding. Hyperpartisan Conspiracy Kooks will be Hyperpartisan Conspiracy Kooks.

231 Bagua  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:01:13pm

Dear god this has gotten out of hand.

I just received a design concept for a corporate logo from a major agency, one of the suggestions has a play on a reverse swastika.

232 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:01:17pm

re: #228 Ben Hur

You don't see the relation between Mao's philosophy and the 70 million dead from him enacting his philosophy?

words ,,, just words !
/

233 McSpiff  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:01:30pm

re: #228 Ben Hur

You dont see the difference between knowledge of a philosophy and enacting it?

234 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:01:39pm

Anita Dunn responds:

In an e-mail message, Ms. Dunn said, “My source for the Mao quote was actually the late Lee Atwater, either in an article or bio I read after the 1988 election. Now that I’ve revealed this I hope I don’t get Keith Olbermann angry with me. Let it be noted that I also quoted Mother Teresa, but no one is accusing me of being a saint!”

The speech she gave was a high school commencement address. Ms. Dunn says that the line about Mao and Mother Teresa was intended to be ironic – neither are political philosophers – and that she used it simply to illustrate a larger point about the importance of challenging the conventional wisdom.

235 freetoken  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:01:49pm

re: #226 DaddyG


However, it was in the context of admiring his tenacity not his murderous reign.

Yes. Which of course was the reason to pair Mao with Mother Theresa, to show that two people who otherwise would not be thought of as similar had, nevertheless, a common trait.

But, that is too complex of a thought for some people, apparently.

236 doubter4444  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:02:24pm

re: #181 Ben Hur

I think it's relevant that she holds Mao as one of her favorite political advisors.

Do I think she wants a Maoist revolution in the US? No.

Do I think this is Beck's "revenge." Yes.

Is Beck a moron? Yes.

I agree for the most part.
I think it's a mistake to say Mao was is a "favorite", for sure, but, at the risk of being over "justificational" (which I detest in others, such as those who turn into pretzels to aid RSM or Rush, or whoever), I did read this as a one time thing... that her favorite quote in this situation, to claim your own way of doing something, was this from Mao, and the juxtaposition to Mama T, so it does not bug me.
Had she just prefaced her comments with the usual disclaimer (the words, not the acts, etc.), it would have been better, for sure.
I think Sharmuta is on it though, as it again looks like the Right is up in arms (again) over something pretty esoteric, and it all just blends with the other up in arms to the point where no one cares.

237 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:02:28pm

re: #233 McSpiff

You dont see the difference between knowledge of a philosophy and enacting it?

Are there 70 million people dead because of this guy?

238 freetoken  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:02:33pm

re: #231 Bagua

Are the into mystical religions or Buddhism?

239 Mr. Crankypants  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:02:45pm

re: #235 freetoken

Yes. Which of course was the reason to pair Mao with Mother Theresa, to show that two people who otherwise would not be thought of as similar had, nevertheless, a common trait.

But, that is too complex of a thought for some people, apparently.

Complexity is a librul consipracy
/

240 shutdown  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:03:05pm

If quoting Mao makes me a communist, then quoting:
1) Einstein: would make me a genius
2) Martin Luther King Jr.: would make me a civil rights leader
3) Eisenhower: would make me a war hero
4) Pasteur: would make me a saviour of humanity
5) Worf: would make me a Klingon.

241 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:03:29pm

Oops.

Dunn's source for the quote was famous GOP tactician Lee Atwater.

Wow. The commie rot goes way back. Verily, we are doomed.

242 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:03:31pm

re: #236 doubter4444

I agree for the most part.
I think it's a mistake to say Mao was is a "favorite", for sure, but, at the risk of being over "justificational" (which I detest in others, such as those who turn into pretzels to aid RSM or Rush, or whoever), I did read this as a one time thing... that her favorite quote in this situation, to claim your own way of doing something, was this from Mao, and the juxtaposition to Mama T, so it does not bug me.
Had she just prefaced her comments with the usual disclaimer (the words, not the acts, etc.), it would have been better, for sure.
I think Sharmuta is on it though, as it again looks like the Right is up in arms (again) over something pretty esoteric, and it all just blends with the other up in arms to the point where no one cares.

I assume that it will turn into a "here we go again" response soon enough.

243 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:03:33pm

re: #235 freetoken

Yes. Which of course was the reason to pair Mao with Mother Theresa, to show that two people who otherwise would not be thought of as similar had, nevertheless, a common trait.

But, that is too complex of a thought for some people, apparently.

Your 1st paragraph was well thought out and well written

Your last sentence was uncalled for, imho

just sayin

244 KingKenrod  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:04:12pm

re: #234 Charles

Anita Dunn responds:

The first thing I thought when I read the quote was "She's just making a joke" but the context didn't bear that out. And I knew I had heard the quote before.

245 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:04:40pm

re: #241 Charles

Oops.

Dunn's source for the quote was famous GOP tactician Lee Atwater.

Wow. The commie rot goes way back. Verily, we are doomed.

Lee Atwater said Mao Tse Tung was one of his favs??

246 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:04:46pm

re: #229 sattv4u2

AT BEST. DFor someone whose life is specializing in communications, in a written prepared speech she was reading from (not an off the cuff remark)


I suspect she was engaging in a little radical academic chic by quoting Mao all those years ago. Kind of a verbal che t-shirt and about as well though out. I don't see it as an indication of commies in the white house.

On the other hand redistribution of my grandchildrens tax dollars through stimulus is a better indication of mildly socialist philosophies at work.

247 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:05:03pm
248 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:05:37pm

re: #245 Ben Hur

Lee Atwater said Mao Tse Tung was one of his favs??

We're going to need a second layer of tin foil.

249 MPH  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:05:59pm

re: #143 Sharmuta

My problem with this is it's yet another low level official

How low-level is she?

Roger Kimball claims that she is in his inner-circle.

Anita Dunn is not just an Obama hanger-on. She is part of his inner circle, one of his top aides, along with David Axelrod, Rahm Emmanuel, and Robert Gibbs.

I don't know how much influence she has...but it sure seems like she isn't "low level."

Here she is on 60 minutes at the table with Robert Gibbs, David Plouffe, and David Axelrod:
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

CBS calls her a "senior advisor" here:
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

Look -- the Republicans are going to make hay out of this --- so be it. That isn't my concern. Whatever the politicians and hacks try to make of it, I can't control -- but there is no way I'm going to try and spin praise of mao (or mother teresa), ever.

250 Jetpilot1101  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:06:11pm

re: #247 fortunate son

Looks like we have out first flounce in the making.

251 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:06:14pm

re: #234 Charles

Anita Dunn responds:

PLAGIARIST!!!@11

/

252 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:06:31pm

re: #226 DaddyG

She meant it as a way to be provocative in an academic kind of way. It's ironic that she would compare someone butcherous with someone saintly.

This is not evidence that she has communist sympathies. If the right would take its head out of its own asshole in which there is a wormhole apparently that leads back to 1955 and exits joseph mccarthy's asshole, this would not be an issue.

253 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:07:12pm

Reverse Concern Troll

254 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:07:13pm

re: #235 freetoken

Yes. Which of course was the reason to pair Mao with Mother Theresa, to show that two people who otherwise would not be thought of as similar had, nevertheless, a common trait.

But, that is too complex of a thought for some people, apparently.

Yes, they did have tenacity in common:

Mao was determined to bring the Chinese people firmly under his control, and was willing to carry out with deeds what he had put in to words. Yes, he was quite tenacious, all right. Stacked up his victims like cordwood before it was all over.

And Mother Teresa, just like Mao, had tenacity.

255 Dainn  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:07:20pm

re: #231 Bagua

Dear god this has gotten out of hand.

I just received a design concept for a corporate logo from a major agency, one of the suggestions has a play on a reverse swastika.

Actually a japanese float that was in a mall I frequent in downtown LA had a small reverse swastika on it for weeks before someone noticed and took it down. The symbol has other meanings, but in our culture that is all lost.

Yeah, no matter context, the swastika is verboten.

256 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:08:09pm

241, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249

yup ,,, looks okay to me!

257 Haole  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:08:11pm

What was with her cotton mouth during that speech? looked almost like coke mouth, wagging tongue, smacking dryness. Odd.

258 reine.de.tout  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:08:16pm

re: #236 doubter4444

I agree for the most part.
I think it's a mistake to say Mao was is a "favorite", for sure, but, at the risk of being over "justificational" (which I detest in others, such as those who turn into pretzels to aid RSM or Rush, or whoever), I did read this as a one time thing... that her favorite quote in this situation, to claim your own way of doing something, was this from Mao, and the juxtaposition to Mama T, so it does not bug me.
Had she just prefaced her comments with the usual disclaimer (the words, not the acts, etc.), it would have been better, for sure.
I think Sharmuta is on it though, as it again looks like the Right is up in arms (again) over something pretty esoteric, and it all just blends with the other up in arms to the point where no one cares.

I think the woman is an idiot for not looking for and selecting examples from US history for a commencement speech to US high school students. And from the clip I saw, she does not appear to be a particularly good speaker, at least for motivational-type speeches, so the school made a bad choice in asking her to speak.

But the rest is much ado about not much.

259 steve white  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:08:18pm

One can find isolated quotes from most famous figures in history, and one then could apply those quotes to illustrate a certain point.

For some reason, it's more acceptable to use such quotes from Mao or Che than from either Pol Pot or Hermann Goering, though the level of depravity is (I'd suggest) about the same for each.

Whatever. Dunn, McCain, anyone else, whoever, fine citizen, make your point and move on.

What interests me isn't that Ms. Dunn quoted Mao, it's that she apparently doesn't understand what life was like for the Chinese under Mao. I'd like her to acknowledge that, even quietly. I'd like her and others in the American Left to acknowledge that 98% of American progressives would be executed in any society that adopted the Little Red Book as its organizing set of law. I'd like Beck and the American right to recognize that most American conservatives would have a short life-span in any 'Christian' theocratic society.

I'd like to think that most Americans understand this, but I'm not sure.

260 MPH  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:08:44pm

re: #176 Charles

Is this really how you want to start judging politicians -- by their favorite philosophers?

Yes, of course it is. I can't think of many better proxies by which we can judge someone's character from afar.

261 enoughalready  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:08:55pm

And here we go with the insanity again.

Does anyone here seriously believe that anyone in the current administration is an actual marxist (or a marxist-leninist, or maoist)? Anyone?

262 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:08:58pm

re: #257 Haole

What was with her cotton mouth during that speech? looked almost like coke mouth, wagging tongue, smacking dryness. Odd.

Lots of people get dry mouth speaking in public. Not uncommon at all

263 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:09:02pm

This actually has to do with the Che Gueverra t-shirt thing.

264 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:09:13pm

re: #260 MPH

Yes, of course it is. I can't think of many better proxies by which we can judge someone's character from afar.

Well, you'd better start applying that same standard to Lee Atwater, then.

265 Rexatosis  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:09:16pm

The adherents of Mao's philosophy (Maoists) have included the Shining Path and Pol Pot and tend to be rather brutal. While Glenn Beck may be an ass, he is just a talking head on TV, Anita Dunn is in the White House impacting and promoting policy and her "favor" towards Mao's philosophies is a legitimate line of inquiry and concern to the public, especially since her position did not require confirmation via the Senate and thus has not been publicly veted.

266 Bagua  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:10:28pm

re: #238 freetoken

Are the into mystical religions or Buddhism?

Well, the weird thing is this submission is for a financial firm like Fidelity. Missing one leg and counter-clockwise it's probably some other rune than exactly a swastika, but it is the first thing that springs to mind.

The artist/designer must be behind all those Che t-shirts before he joined the corporate world.

267 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:10:40pm

re: #263 Ben Hur

This actually has to do with the Che Gueverra t-shirt thing.

Commies Aren't Cool looks great on a t-shirt, but what really wins people over isn't pithy catchphrases, but a superior argument.

268 McSpiff  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:11:08pm

re: #237 Ben Hur

Are there 70 million people dead because of this guy?

Yes. When did I ever say anything different? But has everyone who read Mao killed 70 million? Philosophy is Philosophy. I dont need to agree with it for it to be well written or thought provoking. Even ideas you disagree with can be life changing. Ayn Rand is probably one of my favourite political philosophers, mostly because she forces me to develop my own, totally opposite ideas in a more refined way. I take it you have never competitively debated before?

269 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:11:22pm

re: #254 Guanxi88

Yes, they did have tenacity in common:

Mao was determined to bring the Chinese people firmly under his control, and was willing to carry out with deeds what he had put in to words. Yes, he was quite tenacious, all right. Stacked up his victims like cordwood before it was all over.

And Mother Teresa, just like Mao, had tenacity.

...and that's why her statement was not cool. If she was trying to be ironic, controversial, chic or any other thing by quoting a mass murderer it fell flat. That is why I made the comment earlier I wouldn't quote Mussolini as an efficiency expert even though he ran the railroad on time.

Glenn Beck's overblown McCarthyist nightmare notwithstanding she could have used better judgment. Then again I hope every stupid statement I've ever uttered on tape doesn't get whipped out when I get a deputy White House position.

270 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:11:30pm

re: #261 enoughalready

And here we go with the insanity again.

Does anyone here seriously believe that anyone in the current administration is an actual marxist (or a marxist-leninist, or maoist)? Anyone?

Yes. Lots of people do. Lots of people in Congress do (or pretend to) and lots of people who post on this board pretty regularly do.

271 Coracle  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:11:41pm

re: #265 Rexatosis

The adherents of Mao's philosophy (Maoists) have included the Shining Path and Pol Pot and tend to be rather brutal. While Glenn Beck may be an ass, he is just a talking head on TV, Anita Dunn is in the White House impacting and promoting policy and her "favor" towards Mao's philosophies is a legitimate line of inquiry and concern to the public, especially since her position did not require confirmation via the Senate and thus has not been publicly veted.

Land sakes, what fantasy. She's the communication director, not a policy advisor.

272 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:11:46pm

I have a very creepy feeling that I'm starting to understand why Joseph McCarthy was able to run amok and ruin so many careers for so long before he was stopped.

273 davesax  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:11:51pm

Why do these politicians always have to quote some jerk?

Why can't someone in office quote George Carlin or Mel Brooks?

What is this world coming to?

274 John Neverbend  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:12:11pm

re: #244 KingKenrod

The first thing I thought when I read the quote was "She's just making a joke" but the context didn't bear that out. And I knew I had heard the quote before.

I think her response is fine, as presented in the New York Times, although I note in that same article that Media ShMatters did a tu quoque by pointing out that Stephen Shadegg, adviser to Barry Goldwater, cited a statement by Mao that he followed.

275 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:12:15pm

re: #98 Ben Hur

She has two.

C'mon, this was sarcasm.

276 checked08  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:12:40pm

re: #217 subsailor68

Sarah Palin: Popeye. I yam what I yam. Deep stuff.


LOL

277 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:12:44pm

re: #272 Charles

I have a very creepy feeling that I'm starting to understand why Joseph McCarthy was able to run amok and ruin so many careers for so long before he was stopped.

Is it any wonder the Birchers are headquartered in his hometown?

278 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:13:02pm

re: #257 Haole

What was with her cotton mouth during that speech? looked almost like coke mouth, wagging tongue, smacking dryness. Odd.


Even experienced speakers get nerves and dry mouth. It isn't fun to be addressing a large crowd and suddenly sound like a mumbling drunk.

279 MPH  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:13:08pm

re: #261 enoughalready

re: #264 Charles

Well, you'd better start applying that same standard to Lee Atwater, then.

Trust me -- I do...

280 shutdown  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:13:15pm

re: #270 dugmartsch

Yes. Lots of people do. Lots of people in Congress do (or pretend to) and lots of people who post on this board pretty regularly do.

re: #261 enoughalready

And here we go with the insanity again.

Does anyone here seriously believe that anyone in the current administration is an actual marxist (or a marxist-leninist, or maoist)? Anyone?

Actually misguided 70s French social democrat. Without the good taste in food and wine.

281 Dainn  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:13:23pm

re: #266 Bagua

Well, the weird thing is this submission is for a financial firm like Fidelity. Missing one leg and counter-clockwise it's probably some other rune than exactly a swastika, but it is the first thing that springs to mind.

The artist/designer must be behind all those Che t-shirts before he joined the corporate world.

I believe a three armed swastika was a symbol of a South African apartheid-militant group. Do some research before you go far with that. Themes on the swastika have been used by racists since Hitler. I'll see if I can find a link...

282 enoughalready  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:13:37pm

re: #270 dugmartsch

Yes. Lots of people do. Lots of people in Congress do (or pretend to) and lots of people who post on this board pretty regularly do.

See, that to me is a WHOLE lot more scary than someone quoting Mao. Or Lenin. Or Stalin. Or Groucho Marx.

283 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:13:45pm

re: #275 Ben Hur

C'mon, this was sarcasm.

No, it was intended to be ironic. Irony does not equal sarcasm.

284 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:14:01pm

re: #272 Charles

I have a very creepy feeling that I'm starting to understand why Joseph McCarthy was able to run amok and ruin so many careers for so long before he was stopped.

Just because he was a drunken, boorish lout doesn't mean that there weren't many instances of communist infiltration that he, and others, uncovered. Whittaker Chambers' Witness chagned my perspective on the whole matter.

285 Dainn  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:14:13pm

re: #272 Charles

I have a very creepy feeling that I'm starting to understand why Joseph McCarthy was able to run amok and ruin so many careers for so long before he was stopped.

And who will be our Ed Murrow now? We're screwed.

286 Rexatosis  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:14:19pm

RE: # 234 Charles

Charles, Mao was a political philosopher. He defined the Chinese Revolution, wrote his "Little Red Book" and his adherents are known as Maoists. The philosophy of "The Chairman" was of the rage among many on the left in the early 1970s and was even spoofed in the film "Car Wash" (the son of the car wash owner constantly reads Mao as he tries to bond with the workers).

287 eneri  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:14:37pm

Some people need to get a life! I love Dunn's respone. I also wish the Marx quoted was Groucho.

288 Ferris  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:14:51pm

As far as I know, Atwater never said Mao was one of his favorite political phillosophers.

I'd love to see if someone can dig that up.

289 shutdown  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:15:19pm

re: #287 eneri

Some people need to get a life! I love Dunn's respone. I also wish the Marx quoted was Groucho.

Too wordy. Go with Zeppo (honk!) and I'll agree with you.

290 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:15:27pm

Meanwhile, Robert Stacy McCain posted this at Protein Wisdom:

Comment by Robert Stacy McCain on 10/15 @ 10:48 pm #

Let me put it this way, Barrett: If I ever went over to HuffPo or TrueSlant and started trolling the comments, people would question my sanity. It bespeaks a smallness and a frightening level of fanaticism. Stop sucking Charles Johnson’s cock and start thinking about your own reputation and career, as what you do under your own name, Barrett Brown, is not the same as your anonymous cocksucking at LGF.

Thanks for my PW friends for letting me know about this.

291 enoughalready  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:16:22pm

re: #289 imp_62

Too wordy. Go with Zeppo (honk!) and I'll agree with you.

That would be Harpo.

292 Univac  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:16:39pm

Forgive me for being a simpleton here. But this is a common issue on both sides of the aisle.

Life is a learning experience.
There are both good and bad lessons to learn.

You should be judged by those lessons you have taken to heart.

A young man/woman, who is a racist, and later realizes it was wrong and improves himself, has done well. While a young man/woman who learns a bad example and takes it as his own is doomed.

Past history by itself should not be used to judge. Judge by what history has formed, and the actions of the present.

293 Bagua  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:16:40pm

re: #281 Dainn

I believe a three armed swastika was a symbol of a South African apartheid-militant group. Do some research before you go far with that. Themes on the swastika have been used by racists since Hitler. I'll see if I can find a link...

Great, it just gets better.

294 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:16:44pm

re: #290 Charles

"Let me put it this way, Barrett: If I ever went over to HuffPo or TrueSlant and started trolling the comments, people would question my sanity. " -RSM

Let's assume you don't, sah! I still question your sanity.

295 shutdown  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:16:48pm

re: #291 enoughalready

That would be Harpo.

Dammit. I knew I would get it wrong.

296 davesax  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:17:54pm

re: #290 Charles

Oy, Charles...

The blogging world has gotten really nasty.

I remember when zulubaby and kesher would say GAZE when some Israel-hater permiated the threads, and that was the worst of it.

Those were the good old days.

297 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:18:15pm

re: #268 McSpiff

Yes. When did I ever say anything different? But has everyone who read Mao killed 70 million? Philosophy is Philosophy. I dont need to agree with it for it to be well written or thought provoking. Even ideas you disagree with can be life changing. Ayn Rand is probably one of my favourite political philosophers, mostly because she forces me to develop my own, totally opposite ideas in a more refined way. I take it you have never competitively debated before?

Apparently not.

298 shutdown  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:18:19pm

re: #290 Charles

Meanwhile, Robert Stacy McCain posted this at Protein Wisdom:

How come I can't get an anonymous cocksucking here? The boss always gets the benefits. Fuck capitalism.

299 jaunte  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:18:31pm

re: #290 Charles

start thinking about your own reputation and career, as what you do under your own name


No self-awareness for RSMcCain.

300 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:18:45pm

re: #290 Charles

Let me put it this way, Barrett: If I ever went over to HuffPo or TrueSlant and started trolling the comments, people would question my sanity.

Because the remainder of this comment doesn't cause anyone to question his sanity, and he wants to talk about fanaticism?

301 Dainn  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:19:06pm

re: #281 Dainn

I believe a three armed swastika was a symbol of a South African apartheid-militant group. Do some research before you go far with that. Themes on the swastika have been used by racists since Hitler. I'll see if I can find a link...

Found a link. I remember noticing this arm patch on TV back in the days before Mandela's release.

302 MPH  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:19:17pm

re: #264 Charles

Well, you'd better start applying that same standard to Lee Atwater, then.

He is the reason we have Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter and Michael Savage and Sarah Palin to contend with today...

303 Lightspeed  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:19:32pm

re: #290 Charles

Seeing the words "Protein Wisdom" and "cocksucking" in the same post made me chuckle. Ah, to ingest some "protein wisdom!" Beavis and Butthead moment.

304 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:19:36pm

re: #268 McSpiff

Yes. When did I ever say anything different? But has everyone who read Mao killed 70 million? Philosophy is Philosophy. I dont need to agree with it for it to be well written or thought provoking. Even ideas you disagree with can be life changing. Ayn Rand is probably one of my favourite political philosophers, mostly because she forces me to develop my own, totally opposite ideas in a more refined way. I take it you have never competitively debated before?

I'm having trouble with her saying that she holds Mao as one of her fav pol philosophers precisely because what he actually did.

305 albusteve  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:19:52pm

re: #290 Charles

Meanwhile, Robert Stacy McCain posted this at Protein Wisdom:

my dad would have socked me into next month if I ever said such a thing...to anybody, for any reason

306 shutdown  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:20:35pm

re: #302 MPH

He is the reason we have Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter and Michael Savage and Sarah Palin to contend with today...

And Huckabee - because of the guitar. The only politician of any stripe who should be permitted to play the guitar in public is Kinky Friedman.

307 doubter4444  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:20:36pm

re: #251 Ben Hur

PLAGIARIST!!!@11

/

Just like the artist!
Commies and Artists... and most artists are commies, and his girls like to paint... OMG the connection is becoming clearer!

308 McSpiff  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:20:49pm

re: #304 Ben Hur

I'm having trouble with her saying that she holds Mao as one of her fav pol philosophers precisely because what he actually did.

Fair enough. I think we've both stated our points clearly and politely. Agree to disagree?

309 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:21:35pm

re: #290 Charles

I'm starting to like Barrett Brown.

310 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:21:37pm

re: #308 McSpiff

Fair enough. I think we've both stated our points clearly and politely. Agree to disagree?

NO!

((sorry ,, couldn't resist!!))

/

311 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:21:40pm

re: #283 Charles

No, it was intended to be ironic. Irony does not equal sarcasm.

It was meant as sarcasm because she said "two of her..." in her speech.

Thanks for letting me know what my intent was.

312 shutdown  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:21:55pm

Ok, all three offspring have home soccer games today. I am off to boys' JV.

313 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:22:08pm

re: #308 McSpiff

Fair enough. I think we've both stated our points clearly and politely. Agree to disagree?

Absolutely.

(your being kind, though)

314 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:22:37pm

I wonder if the relative acceptability of quoting communist dictators vs. national socialist one's has to do with a reaction among academics and entertainers to the McCarthyism that was levelled at them. Of course it also has to do with the fact that Stalin was an ally with us against the Axis during WWII. Strange bedfellows and all.

315 MPH  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:22:40pm

re: #306 imp_62

And Huckabee - because of the guitar. The only politician of any stripe who should be permitted to play the guitar in public is Kinky Friedman.

Yes, I forgot the vile Huckabee...

...but, yes, Kinky Friedman is ok with me...

316 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:22:47pm

I think there might be some political strategy at work here. Obama and the Dems threw ACORN and Van Jones under the bus pretty quickly without much of a fight. Both were expendable. I think this gave Glenn Beck and right wing blogs the illusion that they accomplished something. Now the right is focused on obscure political appointees instead of actually opposing policies.

317 MPH  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:24:22pm

If you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow.

318 SpaceJesus  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:24:50pm

rightwing nut murders family for being too liberal

[Link: www.sfgate.com...]

319 tokyobk  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:24:54pm

In my High School a teacher got in trouble for posting signs that sounded "comma-nist-like" and it turned out they were from the usual patriots. Can't remember the quotes though just that it was stored in my brain in the funny category.

320 Ferris  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:25:17pm

Will Dunn be providing any of that pesky evidence to show this supposed Atwater/Mao quote?

I'm not saying it doesn't exist because honestly, who would think of Lee Atwater as an alibi? I'd just like to see what she's referring to.

321 reine.de.tout  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:25:30pm

re: #318 SpaceJesus

rightwing nut murders family for being too liberal

[Link: www.sfgate.com...]

Well ... and they didn't invite him over for Christmas.

322 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:25:36pm

re: #316 Killgore Trout

1,,Now the right is focused on obscure political appointees instead of actually 2 opposing policies.

1,,, right or wrong, she's not an "obscure political appointee" She is the communications director,, Robert Gibbs' (et al) boss

2 ,,,They can do both at the same time!

323 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:25:53pm

It's fascinating that the right wing blogs are shrieking like lunatics about Anita Dunn quoting Mao, but have absolutely nothing to say about Sean Hannity having a special feature on his show about Jerome Corsi -- a 9/11 Truther, a Birther, a guy who hangs around with white supremacists.

All of that's fine with the wingnut blogs. But Anita Dunn quotes Mao -- she must be hounded out of office!

"Pathetic" doesn't even begin to describe this state of affairs.

324 Dainn  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:26:05pm

re: #316 Killgore Trout

That is possible, but it seems that neither side really wants to talk about policies. Hell, we haven't talked much about them here either. The sideshow has moved to center ring, which almost always benefits those in power.

Policies are not good copy.

325 doubter4444  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:26:13pm

re: #258 reine.de.tout

I think the woman is an idiot for not looking for and selecting examples from US history for a commencement speech to US high school students. And from the clip I saw, she does not appear to be a particularly good speaker, at least for motivational-type speeches, so the school made a bad choice in asking her to speak.

But the rest is much ado about not much.

My feelings too.
Lord above, it must be really exhausting being a Far Right wing-nut.
You've got to be outraged every single day.
That's why I get really worried about the Rhetoric, (as was discussed at length the other day).
Sooner or later someone is going to snap.

326 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:26:14pm

re: #316 Killgore Trout

Bingo! Shiny objects. I don't give the White House as much credit for being sly as I do the critics for giving them free distractions.

327 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:26:28pm

re: #322 sattv4u2

2 ,,,They can do both at the same time!

So why aren't they?

328 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:27:20pm

re: #323 Charles

It's fascinating that the right wing blogs are shrieking like lunatics about Anita Dunn quoting Mao, but have absolutely nothing to say about Sean Hannity having a special feature on his show about Jerome Corsi -- a 9/11 Truther, a Birther, a guy who hangs around with white supremacists.

All of that's fine with the wingnut blogs. But Anita Dunn quotes Mao -- she must be hounded out of office!

"Pathetic" doesn't even begin to describe this state of affairs.

100% agree.

329 SpaceJesus  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:27:31pm

re: #321 reine.de.tout

Well ... and they didn't invite him over for Christmas.

probably because of politics i bet

330 John Neverbend  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:27:57pm

re: #309 wrenchwench

I'm starting to like Barrett Brown.

He's written an extremely funny book about creationism.

331 davesax  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:27:59pm

Gene Simmons just called music journalists an "unnecessary life form".

Now there's a quote that's worth a thread.

332 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:28:04pm

re: #318 SpaceJesus

rightwing nut murders family for being too liberal

[Link: www.sfgate.com...]


Oh please. Killgore tried this earlier. He murdered them because he was mentally unstable and violent. The political aspect was just one disagreement among many.

If politics caused family members to murder there would be an upswing in turkey leg related homicides during the Thanksgiving holidays.

333 doubter4444  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:28:57pm

re: #272 Charles

I have a very creepy feeling that I'm starting to understand why Joseph McCarthy was able to run amok and ruin so many careers for so long before he was stopped.

And who in the Republican party today would stop him?
I think we'd all hear crickets from the Senate or Congress.

334 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:29:03pm

re: #326 DaddyG

Bingo! Shiny objects. I don't give the White House as much credit for being sly as I do the critics for giving them free distractions.

It may also be the reason why the White House openly disses Fox News. It gives Fox even more credibility with conservatives. If Fox news didn't exist Obama would want to create it himself.

335 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:29:16pm

re: #327 Sharmuta

So why aren't they?

Yeah ,,like HR 3400,,

oh ,wait ,,, stuck in committee at the bottom of the stack

Or their plan for financial regulatory reform!

damn ,,, stck in another commitee!!!

336 bosforus  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:29:34pm

You don't study your idols to become like them, you study their idols.

337 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:29:50pm

I prefer to quote Chairman Moe

[Link: thinkexist.com...]

338 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:30:39pm

re: #333 doubter4444

I have seen quite a few "bring back McCarthyism" signs at Tea Parties. It's a pretty popular theme.

339 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:30:43pm

re: #323 Charles

Charles:

The fact that certain folk on the right have decided to give extremists in their own camp a pass does not mean that reasonable people (LGF) have to afford a courtesy to extremists in the other camp. I would no more tolerate a "racial realist" in my camp than I would a leftist radical in the White House, and think both are two sides of the same crazy coin.

340 SpaceJesus  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:30:45pm

re: #332 DaddyG

Oh please. Killgore tried this earlier. He murdered them because he was mentally unstable and violent. The political aspect was just one disagreement among many.

you have evidence that he was violent before these murders?

341 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:30:51pm

re: #335 sattv4u2

And instead of promoting this, we're discussing Dunn. Alrighty then.

342 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:30:58pm

re: #334 Killgore Trout

It may also be the reason why the White House openly disses Fox News. It gives Fox even more credibility with conservatives. If Fox news didn't exist Obama would want to create it himself.


White House criticism of Fox increasing ratings: Murdoch

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

343 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:31:54pm

re: #342 sattv4u2

Not surprising. Obama knows what he's doing.

344 enoughalready  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:32:07pm

re: #339 Guanxi88

But do you seriously think that Anita Dunn is a crazy leftwing radical?

345 Ferris  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:32:37pm

re: #323 Charles

Corsi is a cancer on the political debate but some idiot on a talk show isn't exactly the same as a highly place member of the White House Staff.

346 albusteve  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:32:48pm

re: #334 Killgore Trout

It may also be the reason why the White House openly disses Fox News. It gives Fox even more credibility with conservatives. If Fox news didn't exist Obama would want to create it himself.

indeed...Fox is BOs shiny object, a perfect vehicle to detract from his dismal performance so far...a real circle jerk, and it's working for both sides...the right allows it so the left uses it...ho hum

347 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:32:52pm

re: #341 Sharmuta

And instead of promoting this, we're discussing Dunn. Alrighty then.

I've brought up both of those (and more) in the past whenever someone posts about "The Party Of NO".

I would gladly see a thread devoted to them.

348 Reginald Perrin  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:33:11pm

re: #329 SpaceJesus

Only 1134 more updings until you have positive karma.
May the farce be with you.
Woof Woof

349 Dainn  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:33:19pm

re: #338 Killgore Trout

I have seen quite a few "bring back McCarthyism" signs at Tea Parties. It's a pretty popular theme.

Link? I think I missed these, not that I would be surprised.

350 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:34:37pm

I rarely chime in on the white supremicist threads because if it is discussing the supremicists themselves the idiocy is evident and there is nothing I can add.

If it is about people like Hannity giving them a forum I have a similar feeling about Dunn's statement. It's not cool but that doesn't mean they are endorsing every nutjob idea of the people they are giving air time to.

If they happen to interview someone, who hangs out with someone, who espuses crackpot ideas then it's a bit too far removed for me to think they are supporting the crackpot ideas.

I just don't get terribly excited about guilt by association. That goes for anyone including Presdient Obama vis a vis a preacher or radical professor all the way to a talk show host vis a vis his guests.

351 Univac  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:35:15pm

re: #344 enoughalready

When she declared war on Fox, the CNN guy was very clearly concerned that she was grouping "Fox" and "Major Garet(sp?)" She declared war against Fox because of fact checking a Sunday morning show.

352 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:35:37pm

Democracy Corps: Republican Base Voters Living In Another World

They believe Obama is ruthlessly advancing a 'secret agenda' to bankrupt the United States and dramatically expand government control to an extent nothing short of socialism," the analysis said." While these voters are disdainful of a Republican Party they view to have failed in its mission, they overwhelmingly view a successful Obama presidency as the destruction of this country's founding principles and are committed to seeing the president fail."
...
By contrast, Democracy Corps also interviewed a separate group of somewhat conservative-leaning swing voters, and these attitudes were not to be found: "One of the most telling differences between the partisan Republican groups and the independent groups was the language they used. Conservative Republicans fully embrace the 'socialism' attacks on Obama and believe it is the best, most accurate framework for describing him and his agenda. Independents largely dismiss these attacks as the kind of overblown partisan rhetoric that obscures the facts and only serves to cheapen the political discourse."

353 albusteve  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:35:55pm

re: #341 Sharmuta

And instead of promoting this, we're discussing Dunn. Alrighty then.

it's a Dunn thread...or a Beck thread if you will

354 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:36:06pm

re: #350 DaddyG

I rarely chime in on the white supremicist threads because if it is discussing the supremicists themselves the idiocy is evident and there is nothing I can add.

If it is about people like Hannity giving them a forum I have a similar feeling about Dunn's statement. It's not cool but that doesn't mean they are endorsing every nutjob idea of the people they are giving air time to.

If they happen to interview someone, who hangs out with someone, who espuses crackpot ideas then it's a bit too far removed for me to think they are supporting the crackpot ideas.

I just don't get terribly excited about guilt by association. That goes for anyone including Presdient Obama vis a vis a preacher or radical professor all the way to a talk show host vis a vis his guests.

Except that Sean Hannity absolutely WAS promoting Jerome Corsi's bizarre New World Order ideas. He practically canonized the guy on his show.

355 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:36:19pm

re: #344 enoughalready

But do you seriously think that Anita Dunn is a crazy leftwing radical?

I'm suspicious of anyone quoting Mao. It's of a piece of an overall radical chic that we observe in the hangers-on and supporters of Obama. It's a troubling thing, frankly.

356 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:36:32pm

re: #343 Killgore Trout

Not surprising. Obama knows what he's doing.

So does Murdoch!

357 William of Orange  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:36:56pm

Off topic.

I just was awarded a membership of this site two weeks ago so I still need to find my way around here. A lot of doors opened for me. I was wondering where to dump tips, cause the next one deserves a topic on it's own.

Geert Wilders kicks up a lot of dust in London.

After a legal battle Wilders was allowed to enter Great Brittain. He was refused entry earlier in the year. This Friday he took a flight to London to show his Fitna film to certain members of parliament.

Personal note:
Although I certainly do not support Wilders' views, I do stand behind the decission of the court to allow Wilders into England. After all, in any case, Wilders is an elected member of the Dutch parliament. Just ignoring the "problem" Wilders will not make it disappear.


Newslinks:
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

[Link: web.orange.co.uk...]

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

358 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:37:51pm

re: #357 William of Orange

Could not care less. I won't support anything Wilders does.

359 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:38:01pm

re: #349 Dainn

Link? I think I missed these, not that I would be surprised.

9.12 DC TEA PARTY - MARCH FOOTAGE WITH INTERVIEWS


we went to Washington DC to document the Tea Party protests against, well, a lot of things, including health insurance reform, the IRS, abortion, global warming, and our "socialist/communist/fascist/Nazi/Muslim" president, Barack Obama. Some of them called for a return to McCarthyism, while others called for Glenn Beck to run for office
360 doubter4444  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:38:10pm

re: #338 Killgore Trout

I have seen quite a few "bring back McCarthyism" signs at Tea Parties. It's a pretty popular theme.

Good lord.
It seems like there is a concerted effort on the Far right to undo the last 50 years.

361 Bird Dog  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:38:10pm

Right! The comparison between McCain and Dunn is exactly spot on! Anita Dunn was only joking when she said that Mao and Mother Teresa were the "the two people she turns to most." Sheesh. The video is pretty clear that she was referring to Mao favorably. McCain was actually the one trying to tell a joke.

362 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:39:10pm

re: #353 albusteve

it's a Dunn thread...or a Beck thread if you will

I just don't know who the hell Beck is to complain about this when he admitting to having a communist paperweight in his office.

363 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:39:22pm

re: #353 albusteve

it's a Dunn thread...or a Beck thread if you will

Thanks,, meant to add that I just follow the bouncin' threads,,, I don't start em!

364 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:39:38pm

re: #361 Bird Dog

Right! The comparison between McCain and Dunn is exactly spot on! Anita Dunn was only joking when she said that Mao and Mother Teresa were the "the two people she turns to most." Sheesh. The video is pretty clear that she was referring to Mao favorably. McCain was actually the one trying to tell a joke.

You describe yourself as a "Reagan conservative" in your profile. Any comment on the fact the Mao quote used by Anita Dunn was taken from Reagan's chief strategist Lee Atwater?

365 enoughalready  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:39:49pm

re: #355 Guanxi88

I'm suspicious of anyone quoting Mao. It's of a piece of an overall radical chic that we observe in the hangers-on and supporters of Obama. It's a troubling thing, frankly.

Why is it troubling? Are you seriously entertaining the notion that there are secret marxists plotting to overthrow the government? Or are you worried that... I don't even get it really. Reading Mao is not radicalism. Neither is quoting Mao. Nobody in their right mind, not even the chinese Communist Party, would argue that maoism is a good idea.

366 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:39:50pm

re: #340 SpaceJesus

you have evidence that he was violent before these murders?


He was confrontational and murderous and he would have been the same if his politics and his victims politics were mirror images.

When the verdict comes out in court and is testified to by medical experts that the right wing of American politics was the prime motive in his murdering his family then we will talk. Until then it's just a s--t stirring story.

368 albusteve  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:41:58pm

re: #362 Sharmuta

I just don't know who the hell Beck is to complain about this when he admitting to having a communist paperweight in his office.

I don't either...Beck's shock and awe is of little consequence to me, but I guess you can't just ignore him...I'm just a reader

369 bosforus  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:42:12pm

Since we're on the subject of Mao, can anyone recommend a good historical book about him and the cultural revolution? I used to work with a Chinese man who related to me some first hand accounts and it really got me interested. I've also been on this historical literature kick as of late. I'm currently trying to get through The Coming of the Third Reich by Richard Evans, which is rather dense.

370 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:42:28pm

re: #355 Guanxi88

I'm suspicious of anyone quoting Mao. It's of a piece of an overall radical chic that we observe in the hangers-on and supporters of Obama. It's a troubling thing, frankly.

I'm not so suspicious of quotes, but I am of philosophies. I seem to remember a huge flap regarding GW Bush announcing that his favorite philosopher was Jesus Christ. Now, given some of the pandering that he did to the religious right, it begs a question here. Do favorite philosophers matter?

371 Ferris  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:42:40pm

re: #364 Charles

re: #364 Charles

You describe yourself as a "Reagan conservative" in your profile. Any comment on the fact the Mao quote used by Anita Dunn was taken from Reagan's chief strategist Lee Atwater?

How on Earth can a Mao quote be 'taken' from Atwater?

For all we know Atwater said something like, "Mao was a mass murderer. Among the horrible things he said was...".

I'd like to see what exactly Dunn claims Atwater said before attacking him and exonerating her.

372 Buck  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:43:37pm

Can we separate the "Favorite" remark from just quoting him? No one says you can't quote anyone you want... but favorite?

373 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:44:04pm

re: #354 Charles

Except that Sean Hannity absolutely WAS promoting Jerome Corsi's bizarre New World Order ideas. He practically canonized the guy on his show.


True dat. I just don't see Hannity, Corsi or Dunn as major movers and shakers in the reality of American Politics. They are Pundits, Pressers and Politicos that all serve to distract from the real stuff that goes on in the Executive and Legislative branches and has a real effect on the standard of living that we and future generations will have.

374 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:44:27pm

re: #371 Ferris

re: #364 Charles

How on Earth can a Mao quote be 'taken' from Atwater?

For all we know Atwater said something like, "Mao was a mass murderer. Among the horrible things he said was...".

I'd like to see what exactly Dunn claims Atwater said before attacking him and exonerating her.

Oh, I get it -- she might be lying. Of course, why didn't I see it? That's what commies who want to destroy America would do.

375 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:45:06pm

re: #365 enoughalready

Why is it troubling? Are you seriously entertaining the notion that there are secret marxists plotting to overthrow the government? Or are you worried that... I don't even get it really. Reading Mao is not radicalism. Neither is quoting Mao. Nobody in their right mind, not even the chinese Communist Party, would argue that maoism is a good idea.

I'm not Beck, nor do I play him on the web.

Radical chic - the kitschification of totalitarianism. If you don't see a problem with quoting these folk approvingly, or doing up campaign artwork in the style of early Maoist propaganda, then you should see no problem with Euro-fascists and their "cute" riffs on swastika etc.

Obama aint' a radical - he just hangs out with, appoints, and is attractive to, radicals.

She chose to quote Mao precisely because it's a sort of "in" thing on the left; has been for years. Atwater quoted him, too, but I daresay that the points of intersection between anything espoused by Atwater or his president and mao would be fewer than those intersections betweeen say, Van Jones and Mao, to name but one.

376 enoughalready  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:45:08pm

re: #369 bosforus

I would recommend The thought of Mao Tse-Tung for a good Mao primer.

377 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:45:23pm

re: #369 bosforus

Autocracy and China's rebel founding emperors: comparing Chairman Mao and Ming Taizu by Anita M. Andrew

378 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:45:52pm

re: #366 DaddyG

He was confrontational and murderous and he would have been the same if his politics and his victims politics were mirror images.

When the verdict comes out in court and is testified to by medical experts that the right wing of American politics was the prime motive in his murdering his family then we will talk. Until then it's just a s--t stirring story.

Murder was in 2006.

Not the new wave being looked for.

379 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:46:05pm

re: #316 Killgore Trout

I think there might be some political strategy at work here. Obama and the Dems threw ACORN and Van Jones under the bus pretty quickly without much of a fight. Both were expendable. I think this gave Glenn Beck and right wing blogs the illusion that they accomplished something. Now the right is focused on obscure political appointees instead of actually opposing policies.

It is the only strategy you've got when you offer no credible domestic policy alternatives.

Besides crying and wishing for simpler times, though that's tough to legislate.

380 Ferris  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:47:02pm

re: #374 Charles

Oh, I get it -- she might be lying. Of course, why didn't I see it? That's what commies who want to destroy America would do.

Where did I say she was lying?

I simply said, I'd like to see the context in which Atwater used Mao's words.

381 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:47:11pm

re: #373 DaddyG

True dat. I just don't see Hannity, Corsi or Dunn as major movers and shakers in the reality of American Politics. They are Pundits, Pressers and Politicos that all serve to distract from the real stuff that goes on in the Executive and Legislative branches and has a real effect on the standard of living that we and future generations will have.

I would put Hannity in the "Operative" camp and not in Pundits, Pressers and Politicos camp.

He just rubs me wrong.

382 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:47:32pm

BBL

383 bosforus  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:48:02pm

re: #376 enoughalready

re: #377 sattv4u2

Thank you, Lizards! I'll copy and paste those titles somewhere and look them up at a later date.

384 Dainn  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:48:07pm

re: #367 Killgore Trout

Thanks KT.

385 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:50:14pm

re: #376 enoughalready

I would recommend The thought of Mao Tse-Tung for a good Mao primer.

Commie! Why do you want to destroy America???!1

386 Buck  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:50:31pm

re: #374 Charles

Oh, I get it -- she might be lying. Of course, why didn't I see it? That's what commies who want to destroy America would do.

Well, I think she was Joking when she says two of her most favorite leaders are Mao Tse Tung and and Mother Teresa.

I think she might drop names like that for fun.

You have to admit, Atwater MIGHT have been saying what NOT to do (fight your own war). But I admit I don't really understand the line in this context anyway. I must be stupid.

387 Bird Dog  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:51:03pm

re: #364 Charles

Funny, I guessed I missed the part where she mentioned Atwater in her speech to those school kids. It's pretty obvious to me that she's trying to wriggle out of the hole she dug herself in to.

388 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:51:09pm

re: #379 dugmartsch

It is the only strategy you've got when you offer no credible domestic policy alternatives.

Besides crying and wishing for simpler times, though that's tough to legislate.


There are credible alternatives being shut down in committee or not being forwarded because there is not chance of them seeing the light of day. That is just life in the minority party despite the fact that both parties make hay of it while in the majority.

389 albusteve  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:51:25pm

re: #379 dugmartsch

It is the only strategy you've got when you offer no credible domestic policy alternatives.

Besides crying and wishing for simpler times, though that's tough to legislate.

the policies are always the same...reduce the size and influence of govt, reduce taxes and get more private money into the economy, choose your wars carefully and fight to win..none of that ever changes...it's not rocket science...there is a dearth of leadership, not of ideas

390 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:51:43pm

re: #386 Buck

Well, I think she was Joking when she says two of her most favorite leaders are Mao Tse Tung and and Mother Teresa.

I think she might drop names like that for fun.

You have to admit, Atwater MIGHT have been saying what NOT to do (fight your own war). But I admit I don't really understand the line in this context anyway. I must be stupid.

Plenty of room on the bench right next to me!
CrackerJacks?

391 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:52:18pm

re: #381 Ben Hur

I would put Hannity in the "Operative" camp and not in Pundits, Pressers and Politicos camp.

He just rubs me wrong.

Yeah, I need to be careful not to sound like I'm defending the guy when I typically ignore him.

392 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:52:32pm

re: #387 Bird Dog

Funny, I guessed I missed the part where she mentioned Atwater in her speech to those school kids. It's pretty obvious to me that she's trying to wriggle out of the hole she dug herself in to.

But obviously, she can't put anything over on you.

393 enoughalready  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:53:09pm

re: #375 Guanxi88

I'm not Beck, nor do I play him on the web.

Radical chic - the kitschification of totalitarianism. If you don't see a problem with quoting these folk approvingly, or doing up campaign artwork in the style of early Maoist propaganda, then you should see no problem with Euro-fascists and their "cute" riffs on swastika etc.

I think you will find that a great many things are in fact riffs on stuff like the italian futurism movement of the early 20th century and so on. These are things that have turned into pop cultural icons. I am sure there are tons of art directors out there who will happily wax poetic on the subject of totalitarian esthetics.

Obama aint' a radical - he just hangs out with, appoints, and is attractive to, radicals.

Which radicals did he appoint?

She chose to quote Mao precisely because it's a sort of "in" thing on the left; has been for years. Atwater quoted him, too, but I daresay that the points of intersection between anything espoused by Atwater or his president and mao would be fewer than those intersections betweeen say, Van Jones and Mao, to name but one.

You THINK that's why she did it. You don't KNOW that's why she did it. And I will happily argue that if you fail to understand Mao you have missed a huge part of 20th century history, his writings have a lot of interesting things to say and failing to see that (and even worse, making it impossible to quote him in public for fear of being insta-commiebranded just goes totally against everything I believe in) is naive in my opinion.

Mao was a ruthless dictator, he is responsible for the deaths of millions. He was however a very astute thinker. He was NOT a deranged populist. This is an important distinction to make and I have personally quoted him on numerous occasions.

394 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:53:18pm

re: #375 Guanxi88

Should I not have mentioned Van Jones?

Should I have omitted the mention of the radicals who find President Obama tremendously appealing?

Should I have avoided drawing equivalency between the left's flirtation with mao and the former ussr with the idiotic embrace of euro-fascism by the right?

Should I avoid mentioning the strong approval for Chavez' Bolivarian revolution to be found in the statements of the FCC chappy mentioned earlier?

Should I similarly avoid mentioning the State Department's betrayal of the Iranians on the principle of non-interference, but it's willingness to support the attempted coup by DIY referendum by a leftist buddy of Chavez in Honduras?

395 enoughalready  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:53:55pm

re: #377 sattv4u2

Hmmm, haven't read that. Thanks for the tip.

396 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:55:07pm

re: #392 Charles

But obviously, she can't put anything over on you.

Beck is on in 6 minutes. I'm going to set the over/under for number of times he plays the Dunn/mao clip today at 4.

I'll take the "over."

397 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:55:45pm

re: #339 Guanxi88

Charles:

The fact that certain folk on the right have decided to give extremists in their own camp a pass does not mean that reasonable people (LGF) have to afford a courtesy to extremists in the other camp. I would no more tolerate a "racial realist" in my camp than I would a leftist radical in the White House, and think both are two sides of the same crazy coin.

Sure. And if your evidence of crazy on the left is ironic speeches made to high schoolers than you need to get some better evidence.

398 bosforus  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:56:08pm

re: #385 Charles

Commie! Why do you want to destroy America???!1

I'll be a full blown commie by mid-summer 2010.

399 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:56:23pm

re: #395 enoughalready

Hmmm, haven't read that. Thanks for the tip.

It's pricey, and isn't ALL Mao ,, it deals with a great many of the emporers all the way back to 14th century Ming Taizu,, ((yes ,, he of the Ming Dynasty)

400 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:56:45pm

re: #396 _RememberTonyC

Let us know if he cries again.

401 enoughalready  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:56:57pm

re: #399 sattv4u2

It's pricey, and isn't ALL Mao ,, it deals with a great many of the emporers all the way back to 14th century Ming Taizu,, ((yes ,, he of the Ming Dynasty)

Works for me.

402 webevintage  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:57:11pm

This is just another in a series of Faux!Rage to keep the folks who find Beck and Malkin interesting...well, interested.
Keeps the viewers fearful of the pinko threat..."I have in my hand the names of 15 27 commies that work in the White House"...

The lesson you should learn kiddos is never, ever say anything interesting or controversial or commie-like or, well the list could go on and on.
Basically you need to at all times must be positive about God and American Exceptionalism and don't have good counter tops or public service will be closed to you forever by Glenn Beck and Michelle Malkin.
You have been warned.

403 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:57:26pm

re: #397 dugmartsch

Sure. And if your evidence of crazy on the left is ironic speeches made to high schoolers than you need to get some better evidence.

And if that was all I had to worry about, I'd be delusional, and you'd be right.

There's more than enough evidence to suggest that President Obama, though not himself a radical, is a magnet for them.

Dig through my history here, and you'll see I don't think he's a dictator in the making, or anything of the sort.

404 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:57:42pm

re: #398 bosforus

I'll be a full blown commie by mid-summer 2010.

Reminds me of a girl I met after she came back from Woodstock

/
Commie ,, CHECK

Full ,,, ummm,,,nevahmind!

405 albusteve  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:57:59pm

re: #396 _RememberTonyC

Beck is on in 6 minutes. I'm going to set the over/under for number of times he plays the Dunn/mao clip today at 4.

I'll take the "over."

yup, feed the beast...do you really perceive this as an issue worth bolstering his ratings for?...btw, four more of our guys died in Afghanistan yesterday

406 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:58:20pm

re: #393 enoughalready

I will happily argue that if you fail to understand Mao you have missed a huge part of 20th century history, his writings have a lot of interesting things to say and failing to see that (and even worse, making it impossible to quote him in public for fear of being insta-commiebranded just goes totally against everything I believe in) is naive in my opinion.

Agree 100%.

Actually thinking about issues has gone way out of style on the right. It's much easier to march in lockstep with populist goons like Glenn Beck.

407 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:58:51pm

re: #67 Ben Hur

She has a little more influence than Palin's ghost writer.

Step one: walk down the street / through a shopping mall / around a university campus, etc.
Step two: interview people at random; have them tell you exactly how they have been inspired and influenced by Anita Dunn.
Step three: If you find more than 3 people whose answer is neither a blank stare nor some variation of "lolwut?", I will voluntarily listen to the new Bob Dylan Christmas album all the way through. I may not survive, but a deal's a deal.

**WARNING** -- link has audio. Horrible, horrible audio.

408 Dainn  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:58:57pm

We should make a drinking game out of the Beck Comedy Hour.

Everytime Beck suggests someone is a communist, drink.

Everytime Beck talks about his fear for America, as if he really just represents regular people, drink.

Everytime he cries, chug a full one.

409 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:59:05pm

The radical chic (as illustrated in Dunn's quote) indicates a desire to be "edgy" as well as a desire to be "loved by the world" on the part of a realtively inexperienced adminisration.

The radical chic is not the mask sliding from a nafarious commie plot to take over the US government.

410 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:59:30pm

re: #406 Charles

Agree 100%.

Actually thinking about issues has gone way out of style on the right. It's much easier to march in lockstep with populist goons like Glenn Beck.

Whose whackiness (beck's, that is) automatically de-legitimizes any larger point that may be made. Beck's a nut, and so there's nothing to worry about.

411 captdiggs  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 1:59:31pm

re: #201 medaura18586

Actually, yes. Favorite philosophers give me much greater insight into what motivates and influences a politician than their platitudes.

Exactly.

Quoting Mao or any other political figure/philosopher does not automatically indicate an affinity for that view. It merely indicates educational familiarity.
Stating a person is a "favorite" certainly indicates a *favorable* view of said person or philosophy.

412 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:00:15pm

re: #405 albusteve

yup, feed the beast...do you really perceive this as an issue worth bolstering his ratings for?...btw, four more of our guys died in Afghanistan yesterday

I'm mocking him. And I really don't think I'm helping his ratings.

413 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:00:35pm

re: #410 Guanxi88

Whose whackiness (beck's, that is) automatically de-legitimizes any larger point that may be made. Beck's a nut, and so there's nothing to worry about.

Nontroversy.

414 Linden Arden  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:00:44pm

Speaking of Lee Atwater, there was a recent Frontline special (now on-line) which traced the origin of modern attack politics - of which Atwater was the original model for Karl Rove.

Atwater died of brain cancer - his head swollen to 1.5 times normal. He was shown on his deathbed in this state lamenting his sordid political style.

There should be a new Greek drama word invented for political thuggery - I suggest "AtRovian".

415 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:00:51pm

re: #388 DaddyG

There are credible alternatives being shut down in committee or not being forwarded because there is not chance of them seeing the light of day. That is just life in the minority party despite the fact that both parties make hay of it while in the majority.

Right. Like the Republican budget, which contined nary a graph, chart, or table, and who's most complicated formula was (n+1) where N equals the previous page number?

416 albusteve  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:01:30pm

re: #408 Dainn

We should make a drinking game out of the Beck Comedy Hour.

Everytime Beck suggests someone is a communist, drink.

Everytime Beck talks about his fear for America, as if he really just represents regular people, drink.

Everytime he cries, chug a full one.

and you'll end up a drunk, just like him

417 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:01:37pm

re: #408 Dainn

We should make a drinking game out of the Beck Comedy Hour.

Everytime Beck suggests someone is a communist, drink.

Everytime Beck talks about his fear for America, as if he really just represents regular people, drink.

Everytime he cries, chug a full one.

If you do that, get a stomach-pump ready.

418 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:02:01pm

re: #403 Guanxi88

The guy is a magnet for everybody. If he's influenced by so many radicals and crazies you would expect him to show more evidence of it in his behavior.

419 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:02:32pm

re: #400 Killgore Trout

Let us know if he cries again.

I'm leaving work soon, and he appears to have a group of doctors on the set today, so maybe I should have taken the "under." Sorry I cannot provide updates.

420 Dainn  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:02:37pm

Speaking of the Beck, here is a good quote that sums him up.

“All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach.” Hitler

/I guess I'm a Nazi now. :)

421 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:02:59pm

re: #411 captdiggs

Exactly.

Quoting Mao or any other political figure/philosopher does not automatically indicate an affinity for that view. It merely indicates educational familiarity.
Stating a person is a "favorite" certainly indicates a *favorable* view of said person or philosophy.

Very possibly. I asked back in #370 if favorite philosophers matter. I'll go with an example. I remember that early in his presidency, GW Bush decalred that Jesus Christ was his favorite philosopher. I also remember that he did a fair amount of pandering to the religious right. Given that, do favorite philosphers matter?

422 albusteve  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:02:59pm

re: #412 _RememberTonyC

I'm mocking him. And I really don't think I'm helping his ratings.

mockery is the new pink...I'd rather go pull weeds myself

423 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:03:18pm

re: #418 dugmartsch

The guy is a magnet for everybody. If he's influenced by so many radicals and crazies you would expect him to show more evidence of it in his behavior.

Didn't say they influenced him - did say they find him attractive. There's a difference.

424 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:03:35pm

re: #411 captdiggs

Unless you're speaking ironically. Which i know requires the benefit of the doubt, but I think she deserves it. Especially considering her larger point.

425 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:04:09pm

re: #415 dugmartsch

Right. Like the Republican budget, which contined nary a graph, chart, or table, and who's most complicated formula was (n+1) where N equals the previous page number?

No. Not like the pre-budget, budget that was ill advised. Real alternatives to the Democratic Health Care bill.

I can accept valid criticism when they pull dumb stunts but there are some real proposals being kept in committee by Pelosi and friends.

426 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:04:09pm

re: #414 Linden Arden

There should be a new Greek drama word invented for political thuggery - I suggest "AtRovian".

I suggest you stick to your day job!!

//

427 Digital Display  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:04:10pm

I sure hope Beck cries today.. I feel ripped off when he doesn't...
/
Good Afternoon Lizards!

428 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:04:26pm

re: #423 Guanxi88

So what then? What's your point? Why is that even a concern?

429 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:04:37pm

re: #422 albusteve

mockery is the new pink...I'd rather go pull weeds myself

the new pink?

430 albusteve  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:04:50pm

re: #415 dugmartsch

Right. Like the Republican budget, which contined nary a graph, chart, or table, and who's most complicated formula was (n+1) where N equals the previous page number?

what would be the point?...if by some miracle the GOP wins back the House, you will see a flurry of legislation

431 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:05:18pm

Lifted from comments in Balloon-Juice and all I can say is WTF?

A man stabbed and bludgeoned his sister and her husband to death in El Cerrito in 2006 because he thought the couple were too liberal, were raising their children wrong and because they hadn't invited him over for Christmas, a prosecutor told jurors Tuesday.

432 Kragar  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:05:36pm

Oy! Noam Chomsky Compares Right-Wing Media To “Nazis”

Add Noam Chomsky to the growing list of people using the Nazi analogy lately. Speaking to the Commonwealth Club in San Francisco, he alluded to right-wing media as “substantive content — crazy content, but it does give answers,” and warned that if Americans weren’t properly educated about what was really happening to them, they could be in for a repeat of the Nazi takeover of Germany in the 1930s.

Chomsky, an influential linguist and liberal activist, did give himself some wiggle room — he prefaced his comments by saying “I don’t want to press the analogy too hard,” and later repeated that the analogy wasn’t a perfect one. But it was provocative stuff, and veered into Godwin’s Law territory. Chomsky singled out Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage as dealers of dangerous rhetoric, but he didn’t call out any cablers by name, although they seemed to be swept up in his critique of right-wing media:

433 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:05:42pm

re: #413 Charles

Nontroversy.

Love the word, think it's applicable here, and also think this is an instance of a larger problem.

Because Beck et al wig out and claim we have Red Guards running the streets, are we thereby prohibited from wondering about anything related to any possible indication of any unsavory beliefs or sympathies on the part of the left?

Are Becks' and the nirthers' crimes so severe as to absolve all others from all they've ever done, said, or thought?

434 enoughalready  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:05:45pm

My two favorite philosophers are Nietzsche and Lacan. Make of that what you will.

435 captdiggs  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:06:08pm

re: #421 Honorary Yooper

Bush decalred that Jesus Christ was his favorite philosopher. I also remember that he did a fair amount of pandering to the religious right. Given that, do favorite philosphers matter?

Yes, they certainly do.

I'm not a believer myself, but I find nothing offensive or harmful in the "philosophy" of Jesus Christ as I am familiar with it.

436 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:06:31pm

re: #415 dugmartsch

Right. Like the Republican budget

Ummm,, the President submits the budget

Congress approves or denies, adds or subtracts

There is no "dem" budget or 'repub" budget, per se

437 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:07:26pm

re: #331 davesax

Gene Simmons just called music journalists an "unnecessary life form".

Now there's a quote that's worth a thread.

Frank Zappa said everything anyone ever needed to know about music journalists:

* "Rock journalism is people who can't write interviewing people who can't talk for people who can't read".
* "It's no accident that nobody ever built a monument to a critic."
* the lyrics to the song "Packard Goose"

438 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:07:32pm

If someone claims their favorite philosopher is God I am want to ask "the part where he ordered entire tribes to be wiped out or the part where he asked us to be merciful?" It makes a difference.

439 Kragar  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:08:15pm

re: #434 enoughalready

My two favorite philosophers are Nietzsche and Lacan. Make of that what you will.

Aquinas and Cicero, with some Sherman and Carlin thrown in for good measure

440 albusteve  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:08:35pm

re: #429 _RememberTonyC

the new pink?

441 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:08:35pm

re: #438 DaddyG

If someone claims their favorite philosopher is God I am want to ask "the part where he ordered entire tribes to be wiped out or the part where he asked us to be merciful?" It makes a difference.

Thats not the God I knew,,,!!!

//

442 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:08:38pm

re: #432 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oy! Noam Chomsky Compares Right-Wing Media To “Nazis”

I'm so sick of people trying to compare each other to Nazis. Have they never heard of Godwin's Law? We got the Bushitler crap for years, then we get the Obama=Hitler crap. Now we have this again. Fox is stupid, Fox is nuts, WND is asinine, Newsbusters is moronic, but none of them rate with Nazis.

443 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:09:12pm

What Glenn Beck Doesn’t Know About His Hero Thomas Paine

Lizards such as Iceweasel have been pointing out this stuff for quite some time.

444 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:10:32pm

re: #240 imp_62

If quoting Mao makes me a communist, then quoting:
1) Einstein: would make me a genius
2) Martin Luther King Jr.: would make me a civil rights leader
3) Eisenhower: would make me a war hero
4) Pasteur: would make me a saviour of humanity
5) Worf: would make me a Klingon.

Who wouldn't want to be a Klingon?

/with honor...

445 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:10:35pm

re: #410 Guanxi88

Whose whackiness (beck's, that is) automatically de-legitimizes any larger point that may be made. Beck's a nut, and so there's nothing to worry about.

On the contrary buddy, he whips up legions of uneducated hateful nuts who believe him. He is actually very dangerous. I hear your point that what he says is to be dismissed, but you are assuming the same level of rationality and education amongst Fox viewers as you have.

446 webevintage  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:10:45pm

re: #442 Honorary Yooper

I'm so sick of people trying to compare each other to Nazis. Have they never heard of Godwin's Law? We got the Bushitler crap for years, then we get the Obama=Hitler crap. Now we have this again. Fox is stupid, Fox is nuts, WND is asinine, Newsbusters is moronic, but none of them rate with Nazis.

Indeed.
Once you use the word Nazi you have already lost the argument.

447 Kragar  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:10:51pm

re: #442 Honorary Yooper

I'm so sick of people trying to compare each other to Nazis. Have they never heard of Godwin's Law? We got the Bushitler crap for years, then we get the Obama=Hitler crap. Now we have this again. Fox is stupid, Fox is nuts, WND is asinine, Newsbusters is moronic, but none of them rate with Nazis.

Have to agree with the guy who first said "until the have a plan to systematically exterminate millions of people, the only guys who was just like Hitler was Hitler."

448 Digital Display  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:11:22pm

re: #437 negativ

Frank Zappa said everything anyone ever needed to know about music journalists:

* "Rock journalism is people who can't write interviewing people who can't talk for people who can't read".
* "It's no accident that nobody ever built a monument to a critic."
* the lyrics to the song "Packard Goose"

I miss Frank...He was a genius...
What he could do today with with the current political situation would probably knock our socks off..
RIP Mr. Zappa

449 Kragar  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:11:34pm

re: #444 talon_262

Who wouldn't want to be a Klingon?

/with honor...

Klingons sucked.

450 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:11:54pm

re: #443 Killgore Trout

Interesting comment section.

451 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:12:11pm

More good Mao quotes..

Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy.

Enable every woman who can work to take her place on the labour front, under the principle of equal pay for equal work.

Let a hundred flowers bloom, let a hundred schools of thought contend.

Funny but McCain used a very similar phrase "let a thousand flowers bloom.." in the interview shown in the thread here. Last 20 seconds or so. But he didn't credit Mao that time.

452 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:12:15pm

re: #428 dugmartsch

So what then? What's your point? Why is that even a concern?

All right, shall I spell it out, then?

Obama's not a radical, but a good many of the people in his orbit are. He has no problem with them until they become a liability or an embarrassment, but is otherwise quite content to let them serve in his administration.

453 Mocking Jay  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:12:16pm

re: #441 sattv4u2

Thats not the God I knew,,,!!!

//

No true Scotsman and all that...

454 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:12:25pm

re: #431 bloodstar

Lifted from comments in Balloon-Juice and all I can say is WTF?

I see why they didn't invite him over for Christmas...yeeesshh!

///

455 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:12:57pm
the policies are always the same...reduce the size and influence of govt, reduce taxes and get more private money into the economy, choose your wars carefully and fight to win..none of that ever changes...it's not rocket science...there is a dearth of leadership, not of ideas

Not much of that actually happened over the past 8 years. Reducing taxes doesn't reduce the size of government, reducing the size of government reduces the size of government. You have to cut programs. You can't enact expensive legislation and fight expensive wars without funding them. Tax cuts don't actually create revenue.

The Republican party is out of ideas. Because the main idea they seem to have been working on, cut taxes, grow revenues, shrink government, doesn't work.

You have to make tough choices. You have to piss people off who support you. You have to do pretty much what Barack Obama is doing.

Say that he's a freak magnet or a marxist or whatever but at the end of the day when the budget is back to balanced, the foreign wars are wound down, and the economy is humming, that shit won't cut it.

456 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:14:04pm

re: #443 Killgore Trout

What Glenn Beck Doesn’t Know About His Hero Thomas Paine

Paine held a lot of radical notions. He was also full of contradictions. He was born in England, moved to the colonies, wrote Common Sense, moved back to England, moved to France and influenced the French Revolution, wrote The Rights of Man and then The Age of Reason, and then moved back to the US. Six people attended his funeral.

457 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:14:21pm

re: #445 LudwigVanQuixote

I am reasonably certain there is no significant correlation between intelligence and the news network one chooses to watch - with the possible exception of the News Hour with Jim Lehrer.

The fantasy of conserviative mobs being riled into violence by Glenn Beck is about as lame as the fantasy of George Soros controlling our elections by buying ad time on CNN through a puppet corporation.

Black helecopters and tin foil hat stuff...

458 Bagua  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:15:01pm

re: #447 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Have to agree with the guy who first said "until the have a plan to systematically exterminate millions of people, the only guys who was just like Hitler was Hitler."

That is a short list, but includes Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Saddam Hussein, Ayatollah Khomeini.

459 researchok  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:15:07pm

Wisdom and wise words are neutral, irrespective of who says them.

It is in the application of those words that character emerges.

Dunn may have been foolish in assigning Mao such elevated status without clarification, but she is not hell bent on using violence and eliminating those who disagree with her.

460 Coracle  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:15:31pm

re: #449 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Klingons sucked.

Not the green ones.

461 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:15:57pm

re: #457 DaddyG

I am reasonably certain there is no significant correlation between intelligence and the news network one chooses to watch - with the possible exception of the News Hour with Jim Lehrer.

The fantasy of conserviative mobs being riled into violence by Glenn Beck is about as lame as the fantasy of George Soros controlling our elections by buying ad time on CNN through a puppet corporation.

Black helecopters and tin foil hat stuff...

Soros does actually do that. (Not the controlling our elections)

462 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:16:05pm

re: #451 Mich-again

More good Mao quotes..

Funny but McCain used a very similar phrase "let a thousand flowers bloom.." in the interview shown in the thread here. Last 20 seconds or so. But he didn't credit Mao that time.

Mao cribbed that one from an older poet, and used it in cynical attempt to suppress Taoism and Confucianism.

463 albusteve  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:16:45pm

re: #445 LudwigVanQuixote

On the contrary buddy, he whips up legions of uneducated hateful nuts who believe him. He is actually very dangerous. I hear your point that what he says is to be dismissed, but you are assuming the same level of rationality and education amongst Fox viewers as you have.

which raises the ageless question...how many Beckbots are there?...what is degree of influence?...when does the fringe become mainstream and have they already?...I have my doubts, no matter how many tears fall off his chubby cheeks

464 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:17:08pm

re: #457 DaddyG

The fantasy of conserviative mobs being riled into violence by Glenn Beck is about as lame as the fantasy of George Soros controlling our elections by buying ad time on CNN through a puppet corporation.

Black helecopters and tin foil hat stuff...

Unfortunately, it's not a "fantasy" at all. At the recent tea party in DC, signs glorifying Glenn Beck were everywhere.

And then ... there's this:

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

465 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:17:15pm

re: #459 researchok

Dunn may have been foolish in assigning Mao such elevated status without clarification, but she is not hell bent on using violence and eliminating those who disagree with her.

No, but that Mao did these things seems to be not as much of paroblem for her as one would like.

Again - Why Mao for a speech on tenacity and determination?

466 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:18:23pm

re: #461 Ben Hur

Soros does actually do that. (Not the controlling our elections)


Right. They are influencial but not nearly as much as their opponents fantacize. To LVQs coment - stupidity is not the exclusive domain of one political party.

467 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:20:05pm

re: #464 Charles

Unfortunately, it's not a "fantasy" at all. At the recent tea party in DC, signs glorifying Glenn Beck were everywhere.

And then ... there's this:

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Carville?

468 Dainn  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:20:43pm

re: #459 researchok

Dunn may have been foolish in assigning Mao such elevated status without clarification, but she is not hell bent on using violence and eliminating those who disagree with her.

I do believe there is a marxist chic on the intellectual left and sometimes this leaks out when it shouldn't. Go to any college and you'll see Marxism as an ideology alive and well, and not just as Che shirts. However, I don't feel threatened by this at all. Like Charles said, Nontroversy.

469 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:20:59pm
All right, shall I spell it out, then?

Obama's not a radical, but a good many of the people in his orbit are. He has no problem with them until they become a liability or an embarrassment, but is otherwise quite content to let them serve in his administration.

Are you referring to the Van Jones nontroversy? That's the only guy that's been forced out of his administration so far, and unfairly so.

I don't know of anyone else in his admin that would register on your liability scale.

I was willing to give you that crazy people are attracted to his magnetic personality, but not that he courts people who are unbalanced and only gets rid of them when the winged crusaders on the right call him on it.

470 SpaceJesus  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:21:39pm

bill maher grinding the old anti-vax axe again

471 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:22:18pm

re: #465 Guanxi88

No, but that Mao did these things seems to be not as much of paroblem for her as one would like.

Again - Why Mao for a speech on tenacity and determination?

Sun Yat-sen attempted to overthrow the Imperial system no fewer than 10 times, and faced exile each time he tried it. That was tenacity.

472 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:22:43pm

re: #464 Charles

Unfortunately, it's not a "fantasy" at all. At the recent tea party in DC, signs glorifying Glenn Beck were everywhere.

And then ... there's this:

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Somewhat righ/left leaning focus group members are going to feel empowered or disenfranchised by virtue of their party being in or out of power. Those out of power will express irrational fears like the right are now and like the left did under Bush. There is a far way to go from there to violent mob actions.

I still don't buy the meme that the Tea Parties or even the Republican party as currenty comprised represent the conservative base. I think there is a large civil middle that would love to see more limited government that is not out protesting or forming mobs.

473 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:23:10pm

re: #471 Guanxi88

Sun Yat-sen attempted to overthrow the Imperial system no fewer than 10 times, and faced exile each time he tried it. That was tenacity.

Let me tell you something about tenacity.

General Tsao has been keeping at my ass for 3 days now!

474 researchok  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:23:49pm

re: #465 Guanxi88

No, but that Mao did these things seems to be not as much of paroblem for her as one would like.

Again - Why Mao for a speech on tenacity and determination?

Because Mao's remarks were apropos to the message she was delivering.

She may have been better served with clarification and an admonition to use tenacity wisely, but she didn't.

Dumbm but not a mortal sin.

475 albusteve  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:24:33pm

re: #455 dugmartsch

Not much of that actually happened over the past 8 years. Reducing taxes doesn't reduce the size of government, reducing the size of government reduces the size of government. You have to cut programs. You can't enact expensive legislation and fight expensive wars without funding them. Tax cuts don't actually create revenue.

The Republican party is out of ideas. Because the main idea they seem to have been working on, cut taxes, grow revenues, shrink government, doesn't work.

You have to make tough choices. You have to piss people off who support you. You have to do pretty much what Barack Obama is doing.

Say that he's a freak magnet or a marxist or whatever but at the end of the day when the budget is back to balanced, the foreign wars are wound down, and the economy is humming, that shit won't cut it.

then get to work and cough it up...I've decided I'm not going down with the ship...and you?

476 Dainn  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:24:43pm

re: #473 Ben Hur

LOL. I bet that line is one you want back...

477 researchok  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:24:56pm

re: #468 Dainn

Agreed.

Id she's guilty of anything, it was not thinking.

478 DaddyG  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:25:25pm

BBL - I'm not flouncing just catching a bus. It's been fun and thank you Charles for providing this even handed and stimulating forum.

479 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:26:45pm

re: #467 Ben Hur

Carville?

Beck?

480 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:27:21pm

re: #479 Charles

Beck?

Exactly.

481 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:27:52pm

re: #455 dugmartsch

The Republican party is out of ideas. Because the main idea they seem to have been working on, cut taxes, grow revenues, shrink government, doesn't work.

Part of the reason it doesn't seem to work is because they don't actually do it.

For example, "privatizing" things like IRS collections, military security & logistics, and federal prisons might *technically* reduce the size of government, but when all you're doing is handing the jobs over to a non-public entity that has all the cost and none of the accountability, I don't see that as much of an improvement.

482 Kragar  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:28:11pm

United States admits tackling Italians over payments to the Taleban

A senior US official confirmed, two days after The Times reported that Italian authorities had paid the bribes, that “the issue [of payments] was raised with the Italians”.

The official would neither confirm nor deny that the representation to Silvio Berlusconi’s Government was in the form of a démarche or diplomatic protest, but Nato officials have told The Times that such a complaint was made by the US in Rome last year.

The payment of Italian protection money was revealed after the deaths of ten French soldiers in August 2008 at the hands of a large Taleban force in Sarobi, east of Kabul. French forces had taken over the district from Italian troops, but were unaware of the secret Italian payments to local commanders to stop attacks on their forces, and misjudged threat levels.

483 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:28:37pm

Greetings comrades!

Before I retire to the opiate of the masses for the weekend, I wish to share with you another revelation...

Beck's probe is malfunctioning.

I had revealed earlier that he had been picked up by junior Zionist Overlords and subjected to the probe. The overlords had lured him onto their saucer with a bag of cheetos. I had reported that while one in five humans kinda like the probe, Beck craved it and escaped his cell. He the thought it would be groovy to probe his own ear.

In the process, Beck implanted a wetware device in his auditory nerve, that transmits intermittently, Rush Limbaugh, the Bircher feed and Mexican radio. He sadly believes these are his own thoughts. Un fortunately, the probe is now sending him Liabach's Life is life on a continuous loop for up to four hours at a time.

NSFW

His mental state could be best described as fragile.

Our scientists predict that the frisson of Liabach and Mexican radio will soon cause a complete mental collapse in Beck within the next three months.

He believes he is the political messiah, a transformative leader. He is deeply jealous of Obama. He also believes he may be Speedy Gonzoles when he does not envision dark legions goose stepping down main street in clown boots. He has been known to go fetal and nibble small pieces of monteray jack while shouting incoherently about a cthuloid frog demon named Pete who is residing in his left shoe. Other times, he simply masturbates a lot while watching bass fishing programs.

He is now beyond our science to repair. Even the mighty science of Remulak has limits.

However, it is very entertaining to watch.

484 rurality  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:30:57pm

re: #472 DaddyG

I think the right and R's feel an unusual ownership to the Presidency and seem to become unhinged when a Dem. is president. Clinton was attacked from day one, Obama too. I don't think it is fair to say that the left's fears were "irrational"--a poorly planned war, initiated with massaged intelligence, a corrupt or politicized DOJ, when rule of law is our very foundation, cronyism and incompetence, letting a city drown--these were all pretty concrete reasons to fear Bush's presidency.

485 Digital Display  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:31:03pm

Come on Beck! Start crying!
I want the money shot...

486 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:31:30pm

re: #11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I mean, come on now, Beck cries on national TV to show how much he cares. Its not like McCain ever did anything like that to fight communism.

///

True. I don't think I've ever seen McCain cry on national television. He obviously doesn't care much about the country.

//good grief

487 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:32:17pm

re: #485 HoosierHoops

Come on Beck! Start crying!
I want the money shot...

Only when he watches bass fishing...

488 Gearhead  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:32:24pm

re: #482 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

...Italian protection money...

...

Nah. Too easy.

489 Gearhead  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:32:56pm

re: #485 HoosierHoops

Come on Beck! Start crying!
I want the money shot...

If only we could change his ringtone to that Paul Anka song.

490 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:33:28pm

re: #430 albusteve

what would be the point?...if by some miracle the GOP wins back the House, you will see a flurry of legislation

The point is demonstrating a seriousness about the task which you were elected by members of the United States to fulfill. They were elected to govern the country and contribute in any meaningful way possible. Producing a budget with proposals that could be incorporated into a bi-partisan bill is a very good way to do that.

But instead they were shamed into producing the "POTUS minus 10% budget" which is pretty lame.

[Link: www.house.gov...]

491 albusteve  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:33:38pm

re: #484 rurality

I think the right and R's feel an unusual ownership to the Presidency and seem to become unhinged when a Dem. is president. Clinton was attacked from day one, Obama too. I don't think it is fair to say that the left's fears were "irrational"--a poorly planned war, initiated with massaged intelligence, a corrupt or politicized DOJ, when rule of law is our very foundation, cronyism and incompetence, letting a city drown--these were all pretty concrete reasons to fear Bush's presidency.

so then what's CA excuse for total failure, bankrupcy and the inability to save their industries...or MI for that matter...these are primo examples of liberal givt on the march

492 Dainn  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:34:06pm

Okay, take care. May the flounces be silent and the trolls have bad connections!

I'm off to eat something unhealthy then work it off at the gym.

493 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:34:09pm

The only way to settle questions of an ideological nature or controversial issues among the people is by the democratic method, the method of discussion, of criticism, of persuasion and education, and not by the method of coercion or repression.
- Mao Tse Tung

494 Ben Hur  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:34:36pm

BBL.

I leave you with MY favorite Mao quote.

"I voted for you during your last election."

495 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:35:21pm

re: #493 Spare O'Lake

The only way to settle questions of an ideological nature or controversial issues among the people is by the democratic method, the method of discussion, of criticism, of persuasion and education, and not by the method of coercion or repression.
- Mao Tse Tung

yeah ,, but did he say it with a straight face and his fingers uncrossed?
/

496 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:35:50pm

re: #469 dugmartsch

Are you referring to the Van Jones nontroversy? That's the only guy that's been forced out of his administration so far, and unfairly so.

I don't know of anyone else in his admin that would register on your liability scale.

I was willing to give you that crazy people are attracted to his magnetic personality, but not that he courts people who are unbalanced and only gets rid of them when the winged crusaders on the right call him on it.

You're right - Van Jones wasn't a radical of any sort at all. Any similarity in appearance was purely the product of Beck-ish distortion. Because Mr. Jones wasn't a Truther, he wasn't a radical of any sort at all.

The fact that our state department has decide to throw in behind a raging anti-semite who decide to stage a diy constitutional convention to ensure that he can be president for life of Honduras, again, no radicalism there at all.

The FCC makes noises approvingly of Chavez's Bolivarian revolution - but that's not indicative of anything at all, and certainly no cause for concern. Nay, even a raised eyebrow would be Beckish. best to leave that alone.

Cass Sunstein's belief in the necessity of completing FDR's New Deal with guaranteed income for all, should be viewed with dispassion. Because he's nobody important, the fact that he views the installation of a socialist economy as a consummation devoutely to be wished, but unattainable because of deep-seated American racism, is evidence of nothing.

Diversity Chief of the FCC Mark Lloyd thinks Chavez is a swell guy, and that he represetns the interests of the people of Venezuela to a degree so remarkably high as to permit him to close down counter-revolutionary media outlets. His support for the Fairness Doctrine is meaningless in this or any context.

AG Eric Holder has no problem with New Black Panthers at polling places, clubs or no clubs, and similary was a key figure in securing pardons for members of the Weather Underground in the last days of Clinton. But he's nobody, and these and other actions mean nothing.

497 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:35:57pm

re: #487 LudwigVanQuixote

Only when he watches bass fishing...

Let's not bring my avatar into this.

498 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:35:57pm

re: #491 albusteve

so then what's CA excuse for total failure, bankrupcy and the inability to save their industries...or MI for that matter...these are primo examples of liberal givt on the march

How can you call a government liberal when they can't raise taxes without 2/3rds of the legislature?

499 albusteve  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:36:05pm

re: #490 dugmartsch

The point is demonstrating a seriousness about the task which you were elected by members of the United States to fulfill. They were elected to govern the country and contribute in any meaningful way possible. Producing a budget with proposals that could be incorporated into a bi-partisan bill is a very good way to do that.

But instead they were shamed into producing the "POTUS minus 10% budget" which is pretty lame.

[Link: www.house.gov...]

you are winning no points with me...there is little for a party to do in this situation besides stick together and bitch about bunk legislation, which there is an endless supply

500 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:36:46pm

re: #56 Sharmuta

Beck has a research staff? I find that hard to believe after his rant about Rockefeller Center.

Look, given that they were told to find proof that New York was full of Commie and fascist art, they did pretty good. They research. They just don't critically research.

501 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:36:53pm
502 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:37:35pm

re: #495 sattv4u2

yeah ,, but did he say it with a straight face and his fingers uncrossed?
/

And a few armed goons standing behind him.

503 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:37:51pm

re: #58 Guanxi88

You really wanna make heads explode? Remind folk that Chiang Kai-shek was educated in the USSR under Stalin, that the Kuo Min Tang had many active and loyal Communists within its ranks, and that the KMT was, in most important respects, little more than a Soviet puppet until Chiang purged the Reds.

Chinese history of the period is not at all simple. But we've got a lingering case of the simplifications.

504 lostlakehiker  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:38:08pm

Military writings of Chairman Mao may have valuable lessons, and there is nothing wrong with quoting them, so long as this does not verge over into glorification of the man.


Bad leaders, to get where they got, have to have had some formidable capabilities. Among these, often, we find a high level of insight into how conflicts work and how one can win despite being seemingly at a disadvantage.

What's unsettling is when grudging respect shades over into respect and adulation. The flip side of this is when respect for genuinely great leaders, who were good as well as effective, dries up.

Can John McCain abide Winston Churchill? Can Anita Dunn? Can Obama? Looking at who one won't use as a source of instructive examples is as important as looking at who one will use.

505 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:38:35pm

re: #499 albusteve

you are winning no points with me...there is little for a party to do in this situation besides stick together and bitch about bunk legislation, which there is an endless supply

If you're a party that lionizes quitters and whiners, sure.

506 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:38:41pm

re: #496 Guanxi88

Well written

Each point could (and should) be debated

But very well constructed

507 albusteve  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:39:17pm

re: #498 dugmartsch

How can you call a government liberal when they can't raise taxes without 2/3rds of the legislature?

both states are run by die hard, left leaning democrats, deep into the unions...their spending and unfunded handouts are historic...go figure

508 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:39:19pm

re: #503 SanFranciscoZionist

Chinese history of the period is not at all simple. But we've got a lingering case of the simplifications.

No history of any period is simple. The closer in time we are to events, and the more data we have, the more confusing it becomes. I pity folk 100 years from now trying to explain what's going on now.

509 sattv4u2  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:39:32pm

Stickman got the Stick

poetic!

510 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:40:12pm

In an attempt to bring Beck some small measure of balance we are beaming this song into his probe...

It is a last ditch effort.

Either this will mellow him out, or the effects could be completely catastrophic.

511 freetoken  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:40:19pm

re: #496 Guanxi88

Because Mr. Jones wasn't a Truther, he wasn't a radical of any sort at all.

Though you meant it sarcastically, I do believe it is a true statement.

Cass Sunstein's belief in the necessity of completing FDR's New Deal with guaranteed income for all, should be viewed with dispassion. Because he's nobody important, the fact that he views the installation of a socialist economy as a consummation devoutely to be wished, but unattainable because of deep-seated American racism, is evidence of nothing.

You really have become a champion for the Beck agenda, haven't you?

512 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:41:40pm

re: #511 freetoken

You really have become a champion for the Beck agenda, haven't you?

I'm sorry - do you mean that Sunstein isn't anybody important, or that he's not in favor of the installation of socialism here in the states, or that Beck's an idiot? 'Cause, I'll give you the last one.

513 researchok  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:41:54pm

I seem to recall the philosophy and documents of the American Founding Fathers.

Wasn't there something about slavery, the worth of the black man, restricted votes and all that?

Good thing we don't think to highly of them, either.

514 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:42:02pm

re: #86 Charles

It's the new right-wing political correctness. You're not even allowed to quote from commies, ever. Or it proves you're trying to destroy America.

I agree that the phenomenon is on the rise. In this case, I think mentioning Mao in the same breath as Mother Teresa is slightly tacky, and I would have been offended by what she said had I been present.

But it's also irrelevent. This got dug out because she challenged the Town Crier. (hattip to albussteve, who came up with that lovely title).

515 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:42:41pm

re: #511 freetoken

As for Van Jones - the guy was a self-identified communist revolutionary rabble-rouser of the lowest order. If he ain't a radical, then there's no such thing.

516 albusteve  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:42:54pm

re: #505 dugmartsch

If you're a party that lionizes quitters and whiners, sure.

govt does not reward for effort...govt operates by muscular vote...it's all about numbers, no more, no less...the donks have the numbers right now and their record is pretty dismal since 2006, right down to single digits for long months at a time...fortunately we have hope and change now, yes?

517 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:43:15pm

re: #91 captdiggs

Part of Mao's political philosophy was that “All political power comes from the barrel of a gun.” ( Yes, that is a direct quote)
To that end, millions were killed.

I have seem some praisesongs sung to the Second Amendment that appeared to hold the same opinion.

518 freetoken  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:43:22pm

re: #512 Guanxi88

That you distill such a long history of writing such as Sunstein has down to a few Beckian sound bites... is just, well, very Beck-like.

519 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:43:46pm

More from Mao..

The atom bomb is a paper tiger which the United States reactionaries use to scare people. It looks terrible, but in fact it isn't.

520 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:44:15pm

re: #518 freetoken

That you distill such a long history of writing such as Sunstein has down to a few Beckian sound bites... is just, well, very Beck-like.

A whole lot of what's gone on this thread is directly from Glenn Beck's show.

521 freetoken  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:44:32pm

re: #515 Guanxi88

You apparently didn't notice the part where Van Jones became disillusioned with marxism and decided that a different path would be better.

522 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:44:57pm

re: #518 freetoken

That you distill such a long history of writing such as Sunstein has down to a few Beckian sound bites... is just, well, very Beck-like.

If you'd preer, I could write about it at greater length, but, given the constraints of the medium, I thought it best to confine to one or two indications of radicalism. Your case would be strengthened had I focused on other things he'd written, but I'm not supposed to strengthen your case .

523 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:45:51pm

re: #521 freetoken

You apparently didn't notice the part where Van Jones became disillusioned with marxism and decided that a different path would be better.

Oh, you mean where he wrapped socialism up in a green wrapper?

524 rurality  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:45:58pm

re: #491 albusteve

I think GM and car industry were smug and incompetent and their downfall has crippled MI. I don't know enough about their states governance to know if it 'liberalness', whatever you mean by that, but assume it's social services, is to blame.

525 freetoken  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:46:22pm

re: #520 Charles

You mentioned up thread about now realizing how McCarthy was able to carrying on for so long... It's a good observation, and one to take to heart.

526 jaunte  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:47:51pm

re: #512 Guanxi88

I'm sorry - do you mean that Sunstein isn't anybody important, or that he's not in favor of the installation of socialism here in the states, or that Beck's an idiot? 'Cause, I'll give you the last one.

Ilya Somin (at Volokh) on Sunstein:

I believe that the conservative opponents of Sunstein's confirmation are missing the fact that most of his really controversial views have little connection to the office he was nominated for. On the regulatory issues covered by OIRA, Sunstein is actually less statist and relatively more sympathetic to free market approaches than are most other liberal Democrats. For example, in his book Nudge, Sunstein urges policies that are less coercive and paternalistic than those promoted by the existing regulatory state. Sunstein also is aware of the serious public choice problems with regulation, which he has written about in several publications. Obviously, he is still far more supportive of regulation than I am. But the relevant comparison from a libertarian point of view is that between Sunstein and anyone else likely to be appointed to the same position by Obama.

It's also worth pointing out that Sunstein's nomination has been attacked by pro-regulatory groups on the left, and that socialist Vermont Senator Bernard Sanders was among those who voted against confirmation (as did the strongly anti-free market Virgina Senator James Webb). In my view, Sunstein's left-wing opponents had a better grasp of the true significance of his nomination than his conservative ones.[Link: volokh.com...]

527 Bagua  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:48:00pm

re: #520 Charles

A whole lot of what's gone on this thread is directly from Glenn Beck's show.

Anything from Glenn Beck's show should be ignored on principal, he distorts everything with his ignorant bias and agenda.

528 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:50:11pm

re: #526 jaunte

To clarify, then, do you mean to say he's an advocate of socialism, but not really, or that he's not an advocate of socialism, and that his writings suggesting his support for the position are irrelevant to whether he supports it or not?

529 Guanxi88  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:51:16pm

re: #526 jaunte

As for his office and the role his sympathy for socialism may or may not play in the discharge of his duties there - why take the chance? Was there NOBODY known to him who wasn't a socialist?

530 freetoken  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:51:29pm

re: #523 Guanxi88

You said of Van Jones: "wasn't a radical of any sort at all."

What you did, like Beck of does, is the sin of omission. You left out the part where as he got older he looked back on his younger years and decided that instead of the angry marxism (that lured him when he was a wayward youth) a better approach to life would be some sort of ecological constructive belief system... a bit new-age-y perhaps, but not worthy of the scorn you would like to dump on him as a "radical".

You really don't like the idea that people change and learn from their past?

531 albusteve  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:52:02pm

re: #524 rurality

I think GM and car industry were smug and incompetent and their downfall has crippled MI. I don't know enough about their states governance to know if it 'liberalness', whatever you mean by that, but assume it's social services, is to blame.

unions are the minions of democrats...connect the dots...you wonder what the hell is the problem with education in America?...consider the death grip the NEA has on the taxpayers...both CA and MI are heavily unionized...business has allowed them to fleece the companies long term for insurance of short term profit...CA is like 65b into unfunded state union pensions...good luck with that...the entire federal govt works the same way...the bill will come due one day..get your checkbook out because it's far too late for reform

532 jaunte  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:53:51pm

re: #528 Guanxi88

It's interesting that Bernie Sanders was opposed to Sunstein.

533 jaunte  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 2:57:57pm

re: #529 Guanxi88

It's also significant that the U. S. Chamber of Commerce endorsed Sunstein, as someone who would take a pragmatic approach to business regulation.

534 ~Fianna  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 3:01:25pm

re: #521 freetoken

You apparently didn't notice the part where Van Jones became disillusioned with marxism and decided that a different path would be better.

Remember, when people you agree with change their views, it's a sign that they're intelligent and educated and willing to re-evaluate in light of new information or experience.

When people you don't like change their views, they're flip-floppers with no honor.

Did we forget to send you the memo?

535 SixDegrees  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 3:02:29pm

re: #524 rurality

I think GM and car industry were smug and incompetent and their downfall has crippled MI. I don't know enough about their states governance to know if it 'liberalness', whatever you mean by that, but assume it's social services, is to blame.

Michigan has been bleeding auto manufacturers for at least the last thirty years - through both liberal and conservatives governors and legislatures. The state's downfall has been a long-term failure to recognize this emigration, and to diversify the state's economy by encouraging business growth.

Things are now accelerating, as the state's economy - aptly compared to a dumpster - declines even further, and for the first time ever the number of students graduating from Michigan colleges and leaving the state exceeds those who are choosing to stay. This brain drain makes the state even less desirable to locate startup businesses in, and will lead to further declines, in a vicious cycle almost impossible to halt.

But this has been building for decades, and can't be blamed on party politics. Both parties share the blame pretty much equally.

536 Rascal One  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 3:03:34pm

I think Anita Dunn will be completely exonerated on this and she will be found to be the most patriotic person in all of America (next to Keith Olbermann, of course). It's my guess that she actually has a closet full of Mao photos that she must certainly burn each year on the annivesary of his death.

/do I really need it?

p.s. if Van Jones would have had any backbone, he might still be around and could be grabbing a post at Dunn's new Pravda

537 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 3:06:51pm

How in the world is a group of high school kids supposed to "get" a sly reference to Lee Atwater?

538 Rascal One  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 3:08:12pm

re: #537 The Sanity Inspector

How in the world is a group of high school kids supposed to "get" a sly reference to Lee Atwater?

Give her another week...she'll come up with something more believable

539 freetoken  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 3:08:26pm

re: #534 ~Fianna


Did we forget to send you the memo?

The dog ate it.

540 ~Fianna  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 3:11:00pm

re: #539 freetoken

The dog ate it.

That's two months in the gul re-edu luxury suite for you, comrade!

541 airedaletwo  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 3:15:12pm

There is a big difference between quoting someone and saying that they are one of the two political philosophers that she regularly looks to and thinks about (implied in what she further said is that she looks on them positively). It's dishonest to conflate quoting someone with what Anita Dunn said.

542 RogueOne  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 3:20:28pm

re: #201 medaura18586

I haven''t read all the posts yet to see if anyone has mentioned Bush/Gore got this question during a debate during the 2000 election cycle. IIRC, Bush took a lot of flak for saying Jesus was his favorite philosopher.

543 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 3:20:51pm

re: #520 Charles

A whole lot of what's gone on this thread is directly from Glenn Beck's show.

Once the thread hit the 500+ mark the beckers start bleeding out of the woodwork.

544 RogueOne  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 3:22:17pm

re: #370 Honorary Yooper

I'm not so suspicious of quotes, but I am of philosophies. I seem to remember a huge flap regarding GW Bush announcing that his favorite philosopher was Jesus Christ. Now, given some of the pandering that he did to the religious right, it begs a question here. Do favorite philosophers matter?

I knew I should have kept reading...

545 dugmartsch  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 3:23:30pm

re: #531 albusteve

unions are the minions of democrats...connect the dots...you wonder what the hell is the problem with education in America?...consider the death grip the NEA has on the taxpayers...both CA and MI are heavily unionized...business has allowed them to fleece the companies long term for insurance of short term profit...CA is like 65b into unfunded state union pensions...good luck with that...the entire federal govt works the same way...the bill will come due one day..get your checkbook out because it's far too late for reform

I've always wondered why there was such an antipathy on the right for unions. Maybe they've grown anachronistic in some sectors, but i guess the real problem is that there in the pocket of the liberals.

546 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 3:35:03pm
547 Sharmuta  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 3:39:38pm

re: #546 Sloppy

I like evolution threads.

548 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 3:40:33pm

Comments whining about the topics will be deleted. As always.

549 bratwurst  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 4:00:23pm

Late to the party, but two points:

1) Does anyone have a problem with the fact that this ONLY came to light after Ms. Dunn had the nerve to say some unkind thing about Fox during an interview on a much lower rated channel?

and

2) If Ms. Dunn quoting Mao and not condemning his awful crimes has anything to do with her approving of everything he did, what would you say about a politician who actually SHOOK HANDS WITH MAO?!?!?!

Image: 041.jpg

550 Sloppy  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 4:05:37pm

I phrased my 546 (deleted) sloppily, as befits my nic. It sounded as if I were whining about the topic, but what I meant to say was that Beck's silliness keeps intruding into the discourse. He richly deserves being criticized. I just get tired of his providing the fodder. No offense intended. I've never been deleted before. Guess I earned it. Ouch.

551 Univac  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 4:07:06pm

re: #549 bratwurst

First: if you shook hand with hitler and ran a 7-11 who cares. Once you come into a position of relevance, it gains importance.

Second: I think he's already dead.

552 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 4:22:58pm
553 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 4:25:27pm

And with that, I'd like to cordially invite you to piss right off.

554 gregb  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 4:55:17pm

They tried to run Rumsfeld out of office for years. Beck got lucky and noticed one of Obama's mistake appointments before Obama's own vetting team did with the Jones thing.

The idea that Beck is drunk with his own relevancy by trying to do it again and again is a recipe for failure.

555 Aye Pod  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 5:11:46pm

I understand people being pissed off about Chairman Mao - he was a monster who turned the youth of his nation against his enemies and unleashed a huge wave of savagery just to retain power after his disastrous policies brought his country to the point of ruin- but it isn't the monstrous acts that are being praised, and as the thread shows its not just Obama's staff who have praised him or indeed dealt with him cordially(Nixon, anyone?).

I agree with freetoken that this is a re-run of the Holdren freak-out. It appeals to people's ignorance about how academics and politicians discuss and deal with major figures in the same way that the Holdren freak-out appealed to people's ignorance about the way academics discuss hypothetical scenarios.

And regardless of the argument about whether Mao should be held in the same opprobrium as Hitler - the fact is that he isn't political taboo to anything like that extent, so you can't say this is a political faux pas on the scale of having Hitler as one of your favourite thinkers.

556 Aye Pod  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 5:15:17pm

re: #413 Charles

Nontroversy.

Describes this freakapalooza perfectly.

557 Mr. Crankypants  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 5:27:08pm

re: #464 Charles

Unfortunately, it's not a "fantasy" at all. At the recent tea party in DC, signs glorifying Glenn Beck were everywhere.

And then ... there's this:

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Hey! That's the link I posted earlier! Cool...is there any kind of hatchling karma prize for having Charles reference your link?

558 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 5:54:55pm
559 Greengolem64  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 6:23:45pm

re: #493 Spare O'Lake

The only way to settle questions of an ideological nature or controversial issues among the people is by the democratic method, the method of discussion, of criticism, of persuasion and education, and not by the method of coercion or repression.
- Mao Tse Tung

I guess about 70Milliion of 'his people' missed that quote...

560 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 6:44:44pm

re: #559 Greengolem64

I guess about 70Milliion of 'his people' missed that quote...

Brings to mind what Stalin is supposed to have said, when someone was worrying about Western progressive reaction to an upcoming Soviet outrage, "Nevermind, they'll swallow it."

561 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 16, 2009 8:01:10pm

It's appalling that so many LGF readers are buying into this insanity. What's wrong with you people?

Please. Get a grip. Open your eyes. Think for yourselves.

You're being played, by very bad people for very bad purposes.

562 iceman1960  Sat, Oct 17, 2009 4:45:17am

Anita Dunn stated Moa was one of her favorite philosphers that she always turns to.
I think there's an obvious big difference here.

563 iceman1960  Sat, Oct 17, 2009 4:58:17am

Mao that is... haven't had my coffee yet.

564 james_everest  Sat, Oct 17, 2009 6:13:20pm

The source of the quote is not the issue. Dunn said Mao was one of her two favorites. That is the issue. Merely quoting Mao and claiming he is a favorite are two very different things?

565 kutabeach  Sat, Oct 17, 2009 8:20:33pm

re: #158 SixDegrees

She didn't say that. It's a painted-into-the-corner response from those caught in a flat-footed lie, that completely tosses out the subject of the sentence in question in hopes of constructing another sentence she never actually spoke.

Ok, she said Mao was one of the "two people I turn to most" for answers to important questions like "how to do things that have never been done before".

But I guess that is ok with you.

566 kutabeach  Sat, Oct 17, 2009 8:23:01pm

re: #139 Charles

Obviously, there can be only one answer -- Anita Dunn wants to destroy America.

No, I wouldn't say she wants to destroy America, but after her saying that I wonder what her 'ideal America" is. And anyone who is this close to the President who has said these interesting things is a concern to me.

567 ricblog  Sat, Oct 17, 2009 9:38:54pm

No one can question McCain's fidelity. ric

568 [deleted]  Sun, Oct 18, 2009 6:06:14am

This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

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