Israel’s Fiendish Plot

Middle East • Views: 3,915

Evidently, a lot of people out there really think there was a huge need for the supplies being brought to Gaza by the Turkish “peace activist” flotilla. People have even posted comments at LGF complaining about the evil Israelis, whose blockade has been starving women and children to death.

Except, in the real Gaza, in this universe on planet Earth, women and children really are not “starving to death.” And one big reason why: the aid provided to the people of Gaza by Israel in the last two years.

Here’s a summary of last month’s activity in this rather massive relief program:

Weekly summary of the Gaza crossings: 16-22 May 2010

- 523 truckloads (13,517 tons) of goods were transferred to the Gaza Strip.

- 938,127 liters of heavy-duty diesel for the Gaza power station, and 645 tons of cooking gas were delivered.

- 281 Gaza residents entered Israel for medical reasons via the Erez Crossing.

Weekly summary of the Gaza crossings: 9-14 May 2010

- 637 truckloads (14,069 tons) of goods were transferred to the Gaza Strip.

- 810,209 liters of heavy-duty diesel for the Gaza power station, and 897 tons of cooking gas were delivered.

- 781 Gaza residents entered Israel for medical reasons via the Erez Crossing.

Weekly summary of the Gaza crossings: 2 -8 May 2010

- 714 truckloads (17,060 tons) of goods were transferred to the Gaza Strip.

- 1,535,777 liters of heavy-duty diesel for the Gaza power station and 293,796 liters for transportation, and 917 tons of cooking gas were delivered.

- 370 Gaza residents entered Israel for medical reasons and 93 entered Israel for other reasons via the Erez Crossing.

Yep, those evil Israelis, committing genocide against the innocent Palestinians, through the unusual method of giving them large amounts of food, electricity, medical services, and other necessities. Diabolical.

(Hat tip: marjoriemoon.)

And here’s even more information on the situation in Gaza, from the Washington Post, hardly a pro-Israel propaganda outlet: In Gaza, a complex, dysfunctional way of life.

Once an exporter of fruits and other goods, Gaza has been turned into a mini-welfare state with a broken economy where food and daily goods are plentiful, but where 80 percent of the population depends on charity. Hospitals, schools, electricity systems and sewage treatment facilities are all in deep disrepair.

Yet if you walk down Gaza City’s main thoroughfare — Salah al-Din Street — grocery stores are stocked wall-to-wall with everything from fresh Israeli yogurts and hummus to Cocoa Puffs smuggled in from Egypt. Pharmacies look as well-supplied as a typical Rite Aid in the United States.

UPDATE at 6/5/10 9:13:43 am:

Another day, another lame smear attempt by Tim Blair.

Jump to bottom

489 comments
1 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:11:41pm

They’re like every James Bond villain plus ACORN all rolled up into one…

2 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:12:23pm

re: #1 JasonA

They’re like every James Bond villain plus ACORN all rolled up into one…

like babysitting the Child From Hell

3 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:16:40pm

Hat tip to Marge! Woohoo!

4 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:17:07pm

Israel has an export restriction on at least some Gazan agriculture.

I.E., Gaza has surplus agriculture.

This is hard-core denialism at work - different flavor than some other strains, but still quite virulent. And gross.

5 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:17:52pm

Now let me ask any of the ohhh so concerned lefties the following:
Did Britain or the US send aid like that to the Germans During the Second World War? Didn’t think so.

6 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:18:02pm

re: #1 JasonA

They’re like every James Bond villain plus ACORN all rolled up into one…

wow Bond’s villains were alway foreign governments… this is a new twist.

7 bj  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:18:24pm

And this interview with an amnesty international person shows the way so many mis-think about Israel and the gaza situation: [Link: www.shalomlife.com…]

G-d help us from having people like this in charge ….. of anything.

8 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:18:44pm

…and the “aid” brought by the “Peace Activists” consisted of broken and unusable wheelchairs (the batteries had been removed) and expired medicines. Hamas has even refused to accept it.

9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:18:49pm

re: #5 LudwigVanQuixote

Well, they did. Just was strapped to bombs.

10 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:18:49pm

Israel needs to consult Coca Cola and the Dallas Cowboys for an entire marketing scheme makeover…whatever and all they do is not effectively sold…of course going around the UN is no small task

11 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:19:23pm

I posted this on the dead thread, but I’m doubling down.

Thank you, Charles. While we may have our differences here and there, I never doubted for one moment your integrity, honesty, and morals. LGF remains a precious resource and a force for good in an f’d up world.

12 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:19:41pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

…and the “aid” brought by the “Peace Activists” consisted of broken and unusable wheelchairs (the batteries had been removed) and expired medicines. Hamas has even refused to accept it.

Turkish trade goods

13 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:20:04pm

Once again, my answer to a “liberal” Jew.

14 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:20:22pm

Repost, Israel’s PM Bibi Netanyahu giving a statement following the incident. Notice he specifically makes an appeal to reasonable people. He knows there are those that will never be convinced.

Youtube Video
15 Morrisminor  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:20:33pm

Just like all those other so called genocides, at the end of the day the Palestinian population grows faster than the Israelis.

16 bj  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:21:40pm

The average weekly shipment of aid into gaza by Israel is 14,000 tons. Nobody is starving, business is adequate if hamas doesn’t steal it all. Yet, now, hamas doesn’t want the “aid” this flotilla of fools brought them.

17 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:21:40pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

…and the “aid” brought by the “Peace Activists” consisted of broken and unusable wheelchairs (the batteries had been removed) and expired medicines. Hamas has even refused to accept it.

but they did accuse Israel of removing the batteries from the wheelchairs

18 cmaher  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:21:45pm

THANK YOU for posting this. It is appalling that so many people don’t want to understand the facts. It does not help when the silence from our President is deafening.

19 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:21:50pm

re: #15 Morrisminor

Just like all those other so called genocides, at the end of the day the Palestinian population grows faster than the Israelis.

boredom leads to a progressively larger population….proven fact

20 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:22:28pm

re: #13 Cato the Elder

Once again, my answer to a “liberal” Jew.

Your not Jewish?

Cool!

and Thanks!

21 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:22:31pm

re: #15 Morrisminor

Just like all those other so called genocides, at the end of the day the Palestinian population grows faster than the Israelis.

Yeah that is a really good point. Because of Israeli medicine the Palis have one of the lowest infant mortality rates in the Arab world. It’s a really piss-poor way to do genocide.

22 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:22:37pm

re: #20 Joo-LiZ

Your not Jewish?

Cool!

and Thanks!

You’re**

23 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:23:01pm

re: #7 bj

And this interview with an amnesty international person shows the way so many mis-think about Israel and the gaza situation: [Link: www.shalomlife.com…]

G-d help us from having people like this in charge … of anything.

wow. just, wow.

24 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:23:07pm

re: #18 cmaher

THANK YOU for posting this. It is appalling that so many people don’t want to understand the facts. It does not help when the silence from our President is deafening.

Actually, Joe Biden just made a pretty excellent statement.

25 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:23:56pm

re: #24 Charles

Actually, Joe Biden just made a pretty excellent statement.

“make that a double!”?

26 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:24:12pm

re: #24 Charles

Actually, Joe Biden just made a pretty excellent statement.

/but these are not the end of days…

27 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:24:19pm

re: #17 _RememberTonyC

but they did accuse Israel of removing the batteries from the wheelchairs

Of course.

28 Political Atheist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:24:27pm

re: #5 LudwigVanQuixote

Right we did afterward. First things first-We bounced out the evil regime, imposed a civilized one and rebuilt the place. We can respect the method proportionate to the result. A democratic economic power in Europe. No apologies necessary.

29 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:24:48pm

re: #24 Charles

Actually, Joe Biden just made a pretty excellent statement.

I don’t think I’ve seen a sentence like that even on the left-wing sites.

30 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:25:05pm

re: #18 cmaher

THANK YOU for posting this. It is appalling that so many people don’t want to understand the facts. It does not help when the silence from our President is deafening.

I hear you…

31 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:25:32pm

Problem is, you can cite fact after fact and they will never make the slightest difference. The hate is too strong and people are beginning to smell blood.

Sorry for the lack of optimism, but it is what it is.

32 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:25:43pm

Biden solidifies defense of Israel: ‘What’s the big deal here?’

“I think Israel has an absolute right to deal with its security interest. I put all this back on two things: one, Hamas, and, two, Israel’s need to be more generous relative to the Palestinian people who are in trouble in Gaza,” Biden said, according to a transcript of the interview, in which he went on to discuss Hamas’s control of Gaza:

“[The Israelis have] said, ‘Here you go. You’re in the Mediterranean. This ship — if you divert slightly north you can unload it and we’ll get the stuff into Gaza.’ So what’s the big deal here? What’s the big deal of insisting it go straight to Gaza? Well, it’s legitimate for Israel to say, ‘I don’t know what’s on that ship. These guys are dropping eight — 3,000 rockets on my people,’” Biden said.

Biden continued:

Now, the one thing we have to do is not forget the plight of these Palestinians there, not Hamas, the — they’re in bad shape. So we have put as much pressure and as much cajoling on Israel as we can to allow them to get building materials in, glass —

ROSE: That’s what they’re trying to bring in, building materials.

BIDEN: Yes, we know that, but they could have easily brought it in here and we’d get it through.

OK?

Can we please stop circulating this false idea that the Obama administration is anti-Israel?

Pretty please? Cherry on top?

Because it is not true.

33 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:27:19pm
Yep, those evil Israelis, committing genocide against the innocent Palestinians, through the unusual method of giving them large amounts of food, electricity, medical services, and other necessities.

In exchange for homemade rockets and bomb vests, albeit delivered a bit differently. *sigh*

34 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:27:21pm

re: #32 Charles

Biden solidifies defense of Israel: ‘What’s the big deal here?’


OK?

Can we please stop circulating this false idea that the Obama administration is anti-Israel?

Pretty please? Cherry on top?

Because it is not true.


Shouldn’t the VP have said “what’s the big fucking deal here?”

35 Cineaste  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:27:59pm

re: #5 LudwigVanQuixote

Now let me ask any of the ohhh so concerned lefties the following:
Did Britain or the US send aid like that to the Germans During the Second World War? Didn’t think so.

It’s not a “leftie” thing only. The left and the right meet at the edges. Ron & Rand Paul & the Alex Jones crew are just as problematic.

36 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:28:02pm

J Biden may be a lot of things, but mostly he just loves cameras and microphones, and mirrors…Joe Likes a lot of attention, but I don’t consider him a freak, or a threat, and now he’s VP!…how cool is that!….I’d drink with him

37 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:28:10pm

re: #33 Slumbering Behemoth

In exchange for homemade rockets and bomb vests, albeit delivered a bit differently. *sigh*

You mean “used?”

38 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:28:45pm

re: #31 ryannon

Problem is, you can cite fact after fact and they will never make the slightest difference. The hate is too strong and people are beginning to smell blood.

Sorry for the lack of optimism, but it is what it is.

agreed, all bets are off

39 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:28:46pm

re: #18 cmaher

THANK YOU for posting this. It is appalling that so many people don’t want to understand the facts. It does not help when the silence from our President is deafening.

see Biden quote above. It doesn’t help your fellow Republicans to cry wolf…yeaaah…thaaanks…

40 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:29:25pm

It’s a shame that the IDF can’t ride narwhals into battle, because that would be adorable.

Paintballs, really?

41 Cineaste  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:29:40pm

re: #32 Charles

Biden solidifies defense of Israel: ‘What’s the big deal here?’

OK?

Can we please stop circulating this false idea that the Obama administration is anti-Israel?

Pretty please? Cherry on top?

Because it is not true.

Thank you Charles. The ODS is strong on this one…

42 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:29:59pm

re: #34 _RememberTonyC

Shouldn’t the VP have said “what’s the big fucking deal here?”

just in case anyone thought I was bashing Biden, I wasn’t

Youtube Video
43 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:30:09pm

Danish journalist goes to Gaza to report on starvation.

“We have nothing,” she said. We need everything! Food, drinks … everything! “

It disturbed her not at least that she stood between the mountains of vegetables, fruit, eggs, poultry and fish, while she spun this doomsday scenario.

Yousuf al-Assad Yazgy owns a fruit and vegetable outlet here in the market. All his fruit is imported from Israel.

Starvation in Gaza.

Starvation and Suffering.

The horror. THE HORROR.

Just like the Warsaw Ghetto!

44 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:30:59pm

re: #35 Cineaste

It’s not a “leftie” thing only. The left and the right meet at the edges. Ron & Rand Paul & the Alex Jones crew are just as problematic.

NO debate there. If you look at my posts on Paulians or Buchannanites, you will find I am much less than forgiving.

45 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:31:21pm

re: #7 bj

And this interview with an amnesty international person shows the way so many mis-think about Israel and the gaza situation: [Link: www.shalomlife.com…]

G-d help us from having people like this in charge … of anything.

It’s the whole insistence on this “occupied” thing.

So much of the hair-splitting about what is legal/illegal comes down to whether you believe Israel is still occupying the Gaza Strip, and whether the Palestinians (as a never-sovereign people) that are truly the ones being occupied.

The Amnesty person is also dead wrong about the sovereign waters thing.

46 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:31:23pm
47 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:33:02pm

re: #37 JasonA

More like “live” and “randomly deployed in civilian populations”, but I think you get the idea.

48 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:33:11pm

re: #46 LudwigVanQuixote

Dayam!

49 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:33:14pm

re: #46 LudwigVanQuixote

And you think the fake-outrage is bad now…

50 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:34:11pm

in the end there will be no justification, no reason, no nuance….Israel will prevail, but the cost will be enormous…probably not in my lifetime, but someday the Arabs will go too far

51 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:34:25pm

re: #46 LudwigVanQuixote

Did you see the impact there!

“Whoa.”
-Keanu Reeves

52 Filala  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:34:51pm

Here’s what’s going on in Gaza, that lovely place that really needs to be free —- of HAMAS!

Youtube Video
53 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:35:12pm

The Palestinian propaganda that gets spewed by Hamas sympathizers and an unquestioning media is built layer by layer over the past few decades. The propaganda becomes the “facts” rather than debunked for the lies that they were.

Heck, Hamas is playing from the same old playbook.

They aren’t doing anything different.

They and their backers and the media still run puff pieces about Hamas and their evil intentions. Media reports claim that there’s a humanitarian disaster in Gaza, but ignore that Hamas is behind it - it’s much easier to blame Israel.

During Cast Lead, the BBC ran reports of woe about the Gaza Zoo, but omitted the fact that Hamas rigged the entire place with explosives.

Hamas is a terrorist group - and it should come as no surprise when they act like terrorists. But it also means that we have to call them out for being terrorists when they do so. It means that the international community should come down on them like a ton of bricks for using civilians as human shields - for specifically targeting civilians, and for their genocidal statements calling for Israel’s destruction rather than giving them aid and comfort in calling for more investigations into Israel’s actions that are done to prevent further terrorism.

Oh, and this latest stunt with the blockade is just the latest and biggest attempt to do so. There was a previous attempt back in 2008. That attempt tried to get 3 tons of medicine into Gaza.

Israel sends many times that amount in to Gaza on a daily basis and there are no food shortages - and you can find all manner of white goods (fridges, washers, dryers, etc.) It’s not like the Gazans are scrambling to catch rats to subsist, though Hamas will try and pull the wool over the eyes of an unquestioning media (even drawing the curtains to claim that Israel cut the power - in the middle of the day).

54 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:35:36pm

re: #43 Alouette

I was just thinking… I’m betting the people of Detroit wish they were Gaza.

55 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:35:59pm

I’m so happy when Google searches for “starvation in Gaza” hits on my blog.

Heh.

56 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:36:15pm

re: #54 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was just thinking… I’m betting the people of Detroit wish they were Gaza.

No we don’t.

57 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:36:18pm

re: #40 goddamnedfrank

Fuckin’ narwahls. They’ve robbed me of more meals than I can count. Bastards.

58 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:36:49pm

re: #56 Alouette

whoops!

(sorry, I thought it was funny)

59 rwdflynavy  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:37:22pm

I can’t stand it!!11!! The Juice are so sneaky and fiendish!!!11!!
//

60 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:37:46pm

re: #46 LudwigVanQuixote

My simple answer to the next flotilla.


[Video]

Give them a chance to turn around first. If they don’t, fifteen minutes to lower the lifeboats and evacuate. And then a torpedo with just enough explosive charge to penetrate the hull without blowing up everyone below decks.

But we’re armchair admirals: it’s all easier said than done.

61 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:39:24pm

re: #58 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

whoops!

(sorry, I thought it was funny)

Dearborn?

62 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:39:39pm

re: #45 Joo-LiZ

It’s the whole insistence on this “occupied” thing.

Yes they can not stand that after 2,000 years a people they detest has returned to stay and occupy their own homeland. They can not stand that we are ot colonizers - you can not colonize your home, or occupiers, you can not occupy your home in the sense they mean.

They can not stand that rather than being helpless victims the Jews can fight back successfully. They can not stand that when we do so, we do it to a higher standard than they do. They can not stand that we built a prosperous democracy in the midst of brutal barbaric regimes.

So let’s be really clear to all comers.

This land is ours. We are the indigenous people. We are home. We are not leaving. We have faced all comers in the past who have challenged us.

In fact, let’s be even more clear.

The children of Israel in the Bible are us. If you believe it at all, you know that God gave us our land. If you don’t believe that, believe the archeology. If you don’t believe that, believe that we never put up a for sale sign and always sought peace first. If you don’t believe that, then believe the fact that we won the wars that would take it from us.

63 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:39:56pm

re: #46 LudwigVanQuixote

Israel could tie ‘em to the comfy chair and they’d be accused of drawing and quartering the “activists” even though they’ll be released to the media not only well fed, but in better health than when they were captured.

64 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:40:08pm

re: #48 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Dayam!

Mk 48 means never having to say you’re sorry.

65 Fenris  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:40:09pm

Wow, that’s genocide? I’ve seen more fiendish, more efficient plots from Megaman games.

66 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:40:43pm

re: #57 Slumbering Behemoth

That is messed up.

67 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:41:23pm

Who was it here that linked to the luxury hotel in Gaza? Am I remembering correctly?

68 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:42:15pm

My own bias notwithstanding, this site has the best overview of what went down as it relates to the ‘Freedom Flotilla’.

Other sites, both left and right, have nowhere near as much credible content, insight and varied opinion (the real kind) as LGF.

This is one of the few places on the web where ideology of all stripes is always trumped by ideas, thought and exchanges.

We will now return to regularly scheduled commenting.

69 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:42:18pm

re: #60 ryannon

Give them a chance to turn around first. If they don’t, fifteen minutes to lower the lifeboats and evacuate. And then a torpedo with just enough explosive charge to penetrate the hull without blowing up everyone below decks.

But we’re armchair admirals: it’s all easier said than done.

Ohh I am not saying shoot first. You announce clearly that if they cross a certain line, they will be sunk. As they approach it announce they have a chance to lower life boats. Once they cross the line though, sink them without apology.

70 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:42:26pm

re: #66 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

From the same dude that gave us “Look at my horse”.

71 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:43:13pm

re: #67 Slumbering Behemoth

Who was it here that linked to the luxury hotel in Gaza? Am I remembering correctly?

that might have been the Israeli travel guide to Palestine….many threads ago

72 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:43:13pm

Evening.

73 Political Atheist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:43:22pm

For me it will always be the “Fooltilla”.

74 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:44:05pm

re: #69 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh I am not saying shoot first. You announce clearly that if they cross a certain line, they will be sunk. As they approach it announce they have a chance to lower life boats. Once they cross the line though, sink them without apology.

can’t do that…too rad, regardless of the effectiveness

75 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:44:18pm

re: #65 fenrisdesigns

The Palestinians and the terror masters purposefully use terms like genocide, Holocaust, and claim that the Israelis are Nazis precisely to denigrate the actual Holocaust and the rationale for the establishment of the modern Jewish state of Israel. They want to use the terms and stretch their definitions beyond all rationality so as to make them useless - or to take up the terms for themselves.

After all, there was the genocide in Jenin (that resulted in less than 50 dead - and nearly all of those were terrorists) - and that’s just one incident that got magnified into a Babi Yar or worse. Palestinians made it sound like Jenin was Stalingrad, Babi Yar, and every other massacre carried out by Nazis combined.

It was nothing of the sort, but that hasn’t stopped Palestinians from keep up with that level of rhetoric.

And there’s a simple reason why they keep at it - it works. It undermines Israel’s support, keeps the uninformed and useful idiots in a froth, and keeps the terror masters in power just a while longer.

76 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:44:53pm

re: #58 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

whoops!

(sorry, I thought it was funny)

Say what you want about Detroit, finding a job here is Teh Suck, but I went shopping for pie fixin’s and got everything on my list, even sour cherries (frozen, you can’t buy fresh pie cherries more than 20 miles from Traverse City, or unless you have your own tree)

77 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:45:38pm

re: #75 lawhawk

The Palestinians and the terror masters purposefully use terms like genocide, Holocaust, and claim that the Israelis are Nazis precisely to denigrate the actual Holocaust and the rationale for the establishment of the modern Jewish state of Israel. They want to use the terms and stretch their definitions beyond all rationality so as to make them useless - or to take up the terms for themselves.

After all, there was the genocide in Jenin (that resulted in less than 50 dead - and nearly all of those were terrorists) - and that’s just one incident that got magnified into a Babi Yar or worse. Palestinians made it sound like Jenin was Stalingrad, Babi Yar, and every other massacre carried out by Nazis combined.

It was nothing of the sort, but that hasn’t stopped Palestinians from keep up with that level of rhetoric.

And there’s a simple reason why they keep at it - it works. It undermines Israel’s support, keeps the uninformed and useful idiots in a froth, and keeps the terror masters in power just a while longer.

Yes.

Israel- and we- have allowed the Palestinians to control the narrative.

Time to take it back,.

78 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:45:47pm

re: #69 LudwigVanQuixote

You know how much worse this gets if that happens, but your anger is understandable.

79 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:45:54pm

re: #69 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh I am not saying shoot first. You announce clearly that if they cross a certain line, they will be sunk. As they approach it announce they have a chance to lower life boats. Once they cross the line though, sink them without apology.

In for a penny, in for a pound. Israel is going to have a war on its hands no matter what it does. They’d be wise to start playing to win.

80 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:46:14pm

Hamas destroys dozens of homes in southern Gaza
By RIZEK ABDEL JAWAD (AP) – May 16, 2010

RAFAH, Gaza Strip — Hamas police wielding clubs beat and pushed residents out of dozens of homes in the southern Gaza town of Rafah on Sunday before knocking the buildings down with bulldozers, residents said.

Gaza’s militant Hamas rulers said the homes were built illegally on government land. Newly homeless residents were furious over Palestinians on bulldozers razing Palestinian homes…

81 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:46:42pm

Sorry to go OT on such a sensitive topic, but the Tigers are 2 outs from a perfect game on ESPN right this second…

82 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:47:24pm

re: #67 Slumbering Behemoth

Who was it here that linked to the luxury hotel in Gaza? Am I remembering correctly?

Al-Deira Resort

83 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:47:34pm

Have the poor people of Gaza seen any pictures of Darfur?

84 Spricio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:48:06pm

re: #81 Aceofwhat?

Sorry to go OT on such a sensitive topic, but the Tigers are 2 outs from a perfect game on ESPN right this second…

crap don’t have cable status update?

85 Political Atheist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:48:09pm

re: #80 Gus 802

Outrage from the UN?
???
Galloway?
Ditto.

Imagine the crickets if they had run someone over with the bulldozer.

86 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:48:26pm

re: #84 Spricio

crap don’t have cable status update?

2 outs…only one to go…

87 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:48:46pm

re: #71 albusteve

Can’t find it. Damn. Thanks anyhow.

88 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:48:53pm

re: #69 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh I am not saying shoot first. You announce clearly that if they cross a certain line, they will be sunk. As they approach it announce they have a chance to lower life boats. Once they cross the line though, sink them without apology.

If there is a Turkish warship involved, the Israelis ought to leave the area and sink her with a sub launched wire guided torpedo and refer to the event as ‘Allah’s will’.

89 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:49:11pm

re: #85 Rightwingconspirator

Outrage from the UN?
???
Galloway?
Ditto.

Imagine the crickets if they had run someone over with the bulldozer.

Yeah, we’ll be waiting a long time to hear a peep about that. It’s a literal cricket symphony.

90 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:49:15pm

re: #79 ryannon

In for a penny, in for a pound. Israel is going to have a war on its hands no matter what it does. They’d be wise to start playing to win.

I’d start with a strike against Iran, then pound S Lebanon into rubble…who’s going to stop them? and if somebody steps up, is the US ready to rock and roll?….would we actually abandon Israel over timing or geography?

91 Edward Halper  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:49:28pm

This post is a bit inaccurate. Much of this aid is not coming from the Israelis. Israel allows aid to pass into Gaza. That’s why the flotilla was a sham from the start. The aid could easily have been sent to Gaza. There is only one reason to lift the blockade of Gaza: to allow armaments in.

It’s a shame that no one, least of all Ban Ki-Moon, seems to remember that the UN was instituted to preserve peace. Member nations are supposed to renounce violence. Why are there not more calls for Hamas to renounce violence and accept the rights of Israelis? There would be no embargo of Gaza were the area not controlled by a dictatorial regime intent on the destruction of Israel.

92 Curt  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:49:49pm

re: #60 ryannon

Give them a chance to turn around first. If they don’t, fifteen minutes to lower the lifeboats and evacuate. And then a torpedo with just enough explosive charge to penetrate the hull without blowing up everyone below decks.

But we’re armchair admirals: it’s all easier said than done.

Torps don’t have multi-sized warheads….but…usually the tubes mounted on surface vessels have the smaller mk46/50 series (still sub killers), and subs carry 21” diameter ones….really big, and they are designed to go under the keel and then blow, creating a “hole” in the water, and the weight of the ship breaks it’s own keel…the end of the structural integrity….

Surface torps are designed to hit….submarines…they actually don’t work above a certain depth for safety and they are designed to put a shaped charge on the side of the sub and blow a hole in it and let the water pressure do the rest.

Better to cut loose with a Mk15 CIWS in direct fire mode….20mm @ 1500 rds/min (short bursts will do), and those are sidely deployed in the Western Navies….(or…you can get a GoalKeeper in 30mm from the Dutch)


Youtube Video
93 Political Atheist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:50:23pm

re: #88 researchok

If there is a Turkish warship involved, the Israelis ought to leave the area and sink her with a sub launched wire guided torpedo and refer to the event as ‘Allah’s will’.

Obama may not be able to get the Turks to stop the ships from sailing from their port. But I’m sure he will talk them out of escorting the fooltilla.

94 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:50:25pm

re: #84 Spricio

crap don’t have cable status update?

wow…guy just legged out an infield single, the ump called him safe, and it was a bad call.

what an unbelievable call. perfect game, ruined by a blatantly bad call.

95 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:50:53pm

re: #94 Aceofwhat?

wow…guy just legged out an infield single, the ump called him safe, and it was a bad call.

what an unbelievable call. perfect game, ruined by a blatantly bad call.

Crap.

96 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:51:31pm

re: #68 researchok

There’s now a Facebook group for Flotilla Facts.

97 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:51:36pm

re: #82 Alouette

Ah, thanks darlin’. Favorited.

98 Spricio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:51:40pm

re: #94 Aceofwhat?

wow…guy just legged out an infield single, the ump called him safe, and it was a bad call.

what an unbelievable call. perfect game, ruined by a blatantly bad call.

oh no! lol unbelieveable

99 Curt  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:51:58pm

re: #79 ryannon

In for a penny, in for a pound. Israel is going to have a war on its hands no matter what it does. They’d be wise to start playing to win.

The wisdom of Sun Tzu says to tell your troops there’s no way out (but have one planned). That way, they fight with the greatest of tenacity, figuring they either win where they stand or die.

It will suck if Israel is shoved into such a corner.

100 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:52:14pm

re: #93 Rightwingconspirator

Obama may not be able to get the Turks to stop the ships from sailing from their port. But I’m sure he will talk them out of escorting the fooltilla.

we’ll never know

101 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:52:20pm

re: #93 Rightwingconspirator

Obama may not be able to get the Turks to stop the ships from sailing from their port. But I’m sure he will talk them out of escorting the fooltilla.

You’re probably right. A lot of the Turkish bluster was strictly for domestic consumption.

102 HoosierHoops  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:52:27pm

re: #81 Aceofwhat?

Sorry to go OT on such a sensitive topic, but the Tigers are 2 outs from a perfect game on ESPN right this second…

Safe at first…No perfect game!
The last time there was 3 perfect games in one year was in 1880..
Wow..one out away form history

103 Spricio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:53:56pm

re: #102 HoosierHoops

you must have heard that from an announcer, for if you knew that off the top of your head I’d say you have waaaaaay too much time on your hands lol

104 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:54:26pm

re: #102 HoosierHoops

Safe at first…No perfect game!
The last time there was 3 perfect games in one year was in 1880..
Wow..one out away form history

terrible call, too. bad enough to lose your perfect game on the 27th batter…but to have the ump steal it from you? nauseating.

and i’m not even a Tigers fan.

105 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:55:06pm

re: #103 Spricio

you must have heard that from an announcer, for if you knew that off the top of your head I’d say you have waaay too much time on your hands lol

This is LGF, baby. We haz big brainz.

106 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:55:06pm

Turkey’s not going to send their Navy to accompany blockade busters.

That was never going to happen. It was Erdogan’s populist bullshit, playing on Islamist anti-Israel sentiment.

107 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:55:07pm

2009 Hamas confiscation and obstruction of aid

On 12 January, Hamas raided some 100 aid trucks entering Gaza, stole their contents and sold them to the highest bidders. On 20 January, gunmen from Hamas’ armed wing seized 12 trucks loaded with humanitarian aid that had been donated by the Jordanian government to the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, according to Jordanian and Palestinian Authority officials.

On 3 February, 3,500 blankets and over 400 food parcels were confiscated by Hamas police personnel from an UNRWA distribution center. On the following day, the UN Emergency Relief Coordinator demanded that the aid be returned immediately. In a separate incident on 5 February, Hamas seized 200 tons of food from UNRWA aid supplies. The following day, UNRWA suspended its activities in Gaza. Hamas issued a statement stating that the incident was a misunderstanding between the drivers of the trucks and had been resolved through direct contact with the UNRWA.[25] On 9 February, UNRWA lifted the suspension on the movement of its humanitarian supplies into Gaza, after the Hamas authorities returned all of the aid supplies confiscated.

Some local Gaza NGOs providing emergency aid stated that Hamas had ordered them to stop operating because it suspected they were affiliated with rival group Fatah.

108 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:55:10pm

re: #101 researchok

You’re probably right. A lot of the Turkish bluster was strictly for domestic consumption.

In that case, their domestic consumers suck.

109 Spricio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:55:12pm

re: #104 Aceofwhat?

lol who is?

110 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:55:30pm

re: #96 lawhawk

There’s now a Facebook group for Flotilla Facts.

As the writer said, ‘More please’.

111 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:55:43pm

re: #102 HoosierHoops

Safe at first…No perfect game!
The last time there was 3 perfect games in one year was in 1880..
Wow..one out away form history

on a horrible call to boot … the guy looked out

112 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:55:46pm

re: #102 HoosierHoops

Safe at first…No perfect game!
The last time there was 3 perfect games in one year was in 1880..
Wow..one out away form history


there was never two until this year

113 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:56:18pm

re: #107 Gus 802

nice - well done

114 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:56:47pm

re: #109 Spricio

lol who is?

Alouette!

115 HoosierHoops  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:57:06pm

re: #103 Spricio

you must have heard that from an announcer, for if you knew that off the top of your head I’d say you have waaay too much time on your hands lol

LOL
I have a 73” Samsung with picture in picture with ESPN on at all times..It’s the law!
/

116 freetoken  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:57:27pm

re: #32 Charles

Can we please stop circulating this false idea that the Obama administration is anti-Israel?


Good luck with that one.

117 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:57:46pm

re: #102 HoosierHoops

Safe at first…No perfect game!
The last time there was 3 perfect games in one year was in 1880..
Wow..one out away form history

Since we’re now in a mini sports mode … The Celtics will beat the Lakers in 6 games …

118 Spricio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:58:15pm

re: #115 HoosierHoops

LOL
I have a 73” Samsung with picture in picture with ESPN on at all times..It’s the law!
/

oh my, 73” is epic. I couldnt find a room in my place that could house that beast

119 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:58:58pm

re: #117 _RememberTonyC

From your keyboard to the Almighty.

120 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:59:17pm

I just have a 23” monitor, but I sit really close so it looks huge. /

121 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 5:59:30pm

re: #106 Charles

Turkey’s not going to send their Navy to accompany blockade busters.

That was never going to happen. It was Erdogan’s populist bullshit, playing on Islamist anti-Israel sentiment.

yup, and after the last year or so, the Turks have a very nice closeup view of some of Israel’s capabilities…I expect this to be a short run gig and Turkey will fade quickly

122 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:00:16pm

re: #113 Aceofwhat?

nice - well done

It’s amazing to see the blind faith of Gaza in the face of the Hamas and Fatah violence and corruption. Something else they’re forgetting is that Egypt has also imposed a blockade of Gaza. As usual, Egypt will respond by opening their border for a week or so then return back to normal. Egypt is currently building new segments to their barricade at the Gaza border.

123 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:01:03pm

re: #116 freetoken

Good luck with that one.

Yeah, I know. I thought maybe asking nicely might work.

124 Political Atheist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:02:12pm

re: #100 albusteve

The escort will be there or not. We’ll never know exactly why, but I’m sure there is a chorus of diplomats saying don’t do it. Israel once knowingly attacked a US Navy ship. The Turks? Heh.

125 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:02:27pm

re: #123 Charles

Yeah, I know. I thought maybe asking nicely might work.

I’m waiting for BO to say so exclusively…just words, I know

126 HoosierHoops  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:02:32pm

re: #117 _RememberTonyC

Since we’re now in a mini sports mode … The Celtics will beat the Lakers in 6 games …

If we sweep the Lakers..I will be the happiest man in the world!
/Hey Jack! Your Limo driver has got to know somebody to help you through the night!
//Did I jinx the Celtics?

127 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:02:56pm

re: #123 Charles

Yeah, I know. I thought maybe asking nicely might work.

Trying to get the facts out is the most important thing you can do.

128 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:02:56pm

re: #121 albusteve

yup, and after the last year or so, the Turks have a very nice closeup view of some of Israel’s capabilities…I expect this to be a short run gig and Turkey will fade quickly

in fact they have a bunch of drones on order due to be delivered next month… I did notice that their outrage did not include canceling the order.

129 Spricio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:03:17pm

re: #126 HoosierHoops

If we sweep the Lakers..I will be the happiest man in the world!
/Hey Jack! Your Limo driver has got to know somebody to help you through the night!
//Did I jinx the Celtics?

as much as I hate Kobe and the Lakers i think everyone knows there won’t be a sweep by the Celtics

130 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:03:40pm

re: #121 albusteve

yup, and after the last year or so, the Turks have a very nice closeup view of some of Israel’s capabilities…I expect this to be a short run gig and Turkey will fade quickly

I don’t believe the Turks will do anything because they don’t want to jeopardize their shot at full EU status. Also, they don’t want to be marginalized within NATO.

131 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:03:51pm

re: #123 Charles

“Cherry on top” even!

132 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:04:09pm

Followup on the Hamas story:

Hamas faces rising anger after bulldozing Gaza homes
By Joseph Krauss (AFP) – 5 days ago

RAFAH, Gaza Strip — Huddled in a tent near the mound of rubble that used to be his home, Eissa al-Sidudi says out loud what many Gazans would only mutter in private: Hamas has gone too far.

On May 16 Hamas police dragged his wife and eight children out of their squat cement house and pummelled him with wooden batons as bulldozers razed the building along with nearly 20 other homes.

“They didn’t come here as a government, they came as an enemy power,” he said, surrounded by several nodding neighbours who are also camping out at the site, an outcrop of sand dunes on the edge of the town.

“Whoever destroys my house is my enemy,” he said…

133 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:04:10pm

Oooo thank ye, Charles!

134 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:04:16pm

Celts steal one of two in LA (probably game #1) …

Celts take 2 of 3 at home (probably 3 and 4) …

Celts win game 6 in LA …

Since the Finals have gone to the 2-3-2 format in 1985, twelve of the 25 NBA Finals series have gone 6 games. There have been three 7 game series, three sweeps, and six 5 game series. No way this one goes 4 or 5 games as both teams are too evenly matched. And if it goes 7 games, Boston loses. So it will have to go 6 and banner 18 will be secured.

135 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:04:22pm

re: #128 brookly red

in fact they have a bunch of drones on order due to be delivered next month… I did notice that their outrage did not include canceling the order.

Drones are where the rubber hits the road now days…so to speak
GO IAF!

136 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:04:32pm

re: #122 Gus 802

Yeah, but the Egyptian border wall is simply an instance of Egypt looking after the best interests of their citizens. The Israeli border wall is genocidal apartheid. Duh!
/moon-nut asshole mode off
//or should that be wing-bat?

137 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:04:32pm

re: #106 Charles

Turkey’s not going to send their Navy to accompany blockade busters.

That was never going to happen. It was Erdogan’s populist bullshit, playing on Islamist anti-Israel sentiment.

Erdogan is flirting with Iran and trying to keep up his support among the Islamists. Doing just enough to not run directly afoul of the US and NATO, but worrisome enough that they’re moving into the Iranian sphere of influence.

But at the same time, I fully expect that they are going to let more ships attempt to run the blockade…

138 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:04:50pm

re: #133 marjoriemoon

Yay! Marge!

139 Semper Fi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:04:50pm

re: #117 _RememberTonyC

Since we’re now in a mini sports mode … The Celtics will beat the Lakers in 6 games …

Lakers win ‘two’.
Thanks for that

140 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:05:00pm

re: #106 Charles

Turkey’s not going to send their Navy to accompany blockade busters.

That was never going to happen. It was Erdogan’s populist bullshit, playing on Islamist anti-Israel sentiment.

Jeez. What does that say about the average citizen of Turkey? They elected that goofball.

141 HoosierHoops  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:05:05pm

re: #129 Spricio

as much as I hate Kobe and the Lakers i think everyone knows there won’t be a sweep by the Celtics

This is going to be epic..
I hope there is a classic game 7…( with the Celtics winning )

142 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:05:28pm

re: #134 _RememberTonyC

(nerd alert)

143 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:05:51pm

re: #140 Boogberg

Jeez. What does that say about the average citizen of Turkey? They elected that goofball.

Turkey is the only developed nation with a lower acceptance of evolutionary science than the United States.

144 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:06:01pm

re: #125 albusteve

I’m waiting for BO to say so exclusively…just words, I know

Actually, I really believe he is best off saying nothing and let Biden and Clinton do the heavy lifting. Too many people waiting to pounce. No matter what he says his detractors will go to town.

145 ShaunP  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:06:03pm

re: #123 Charles

Yeah, I know. I thought maybe asking nicely might work.

Damn you Charles. I finish my rant about the left wing and how they are alienating Israel, only to come here and see you beat me to the punch. Oh well, here’s the link to my post…

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

146 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:06:14pm

re: #137 lawhawk

Erdogan is flirting with Iran and trying to keep up his support among the Islamists. Doing just enough to not run directly afoul of the US and NATO, but worrisome enough that they’re moving into the Iranian sphere of influence.

But at the same time, I fully expect that they are going to let more ships attempt to run the blockade…

the timeless ‘shoulder shrug’

147 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:06:31pm

Ah, good to see the NYT Editorial staff has their heads on straight.

Mr. Obama needs to state clearly that the Israeli attack was unacceptable and back an impartial international investigation. The United States should also join the other permanent members of the United Nations Security Council — Britain, France, Russia and China — in urging Israel to permanently lift the blockade.



wait, whut???

148 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:06:47pm

re: #135 albusteve

Drones are where the rubber hits the road now days…so to speak
GO IAF!

well if you really want the rubber to meet the road, Turks don’t not have much love for Arabs. Yes it is like that.

149 Political Atheist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:06:51pm

re: #143 Charles

Ouch. That is embarrassing.

150 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:07:33pm

re: #143 Charles

Turkey is the only developed nation with a lower acceptance of evolutionary science than the United States.

Hahahaha!
I is sad now.
:(

151 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:08:05pm

re: #144 researchok

Actually, I really believe he is best off saying nothing and let Biden and Clinton do the heavy lifting. Too many people waiting to pounce. No matter what he says his detractors will go to town.

maybe so….but it’s about expectations, not reality…he’s supposed to be the consumate politician

152 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:08:17pm

re: #142 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

(nerd alert)

some of us get paid to know that stuff!

153 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:08:39pm

re: #147 Aceofwhat?

Mr. Obama? Do you think that was meant as an intentional sleight?

154 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:08:49pm

re: #145 ShaunP

Damn you Charles. I finish my rant about the left wing and how they are alienating Israel, only to come here and see you beat me to the punch. Oh well, here’s the link to my post…

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

No place like LGF for a dose of reality. No by products, additives, fillers or political ideologies of any kind.

Just reality.

155 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:08:49pm

re: #143 Charles

Lol! Well there you go. :D

156 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:09:12pm

re: #145 ShaunP

Damn you Charles. I finish my rant about the left wing and how they are alienating Israel, only to come here and see you beat me to the punch. Oh well, here’s the link to my post…

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Great post, just featured it.

This episode reminds me again that I do not want to hang with the extremes of either party.

157 HoosierHoops  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:09:18pm

re: #134 _RememberTonyC

Celts steal one of two in LA (probably game #1) …

Celts take 2 of 3 at home (probably 3 and 4) …

Celts win game 6 in LA …

Since the Finals have gone to the 2-3-2 format in 1985, twelve of the 25 NBA Finals series have gone 6 games. There have been three 7 game series, three sweeps, and six 5 game series. No way this one goes 4 or 5 games as both teams are too evenly matched. And if it goes 7 games, Boston loses. So it will have to go 6 and banner 18 will be secured.

Love it!
Problem is.. I rate Kobe as the top five guard of all time..Hands down…
Kobe can take over this series..This is epic!

158 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:09:44pm

re: #154 researchok

No place like LGF for a dose of reality. No by products, additives, fillers or political ideologies of any kind.

Just reality.

my underwear is clean…does that count for anything?

159 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:10:15pm

re: #143 Charles

Turkey is the only developed nation with a lower acceptance of evolutionary science than the United States.

That does not make me feel better.

160 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:10:22pm

re: #143 Charles

Turkey is the only developed nation with a lower acceptance of evolutionary science than the United States.

Don’t worry…we’re working hard to be number one!

*sob*

161 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:10:22pm

re: #158 albusteve

my underwear is clean…does that count for anything?

for today yes, by tomorrow no…

162 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:10:40pm

re: #46 LudwigVanQuixote

My simple answer to the next flotilla.


[Video]

That’s simple but it would be a bit over the top, IMO.

163 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:11:17pm

re: #151 albusteve

maybe so…but it’s about expectations, not reality…he’s supposed to be the consumate politician

He is- he’s right to not make himself a target and wade in.

Same applies to BP. Let him be seen managing and leading. He can talk when there is something substantive to say. Right now all he can do is spin his wheels.

His speeches won’t solve the problem and there is no point pretending they will.

164 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:11:50pm

re: #153 Slumbering Behemoth

Mr. Obama? Do you think that was meant as an intentional sleight?

i don’t think so…they’re not smart enough to be so subtle!

165 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:12:22pm

re: #163 researchok

He is- he’s right to not make himself a target and wade in.

Same applies to BP. Let him be seen managing and leading. He can talk when there is something substantive to say. Right now all he can do is spin his wheels.

His speeches won’t solve the problem and there is no point pretending they will.

people like theater

166 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:12:48pm

re: #162 Dark_Falcon

That’s simple but it would be a bit over the top, IMO.

LVQ over the top? Perish the thought;)

167 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:13:12pm

re: #157 HoosierHoops

Love it!
Problem is.. I rate Kobe as the top five guard of all time..Hands down…
Kobe can take over this series..This is epic!

Not so fast my friend … Kobe is gonna have to play some defense in this series. In fact, he may have to spend at least some of his time guarding Rajon Rondo. That means less energy at the offensive end. Pau gasol will face 3-4 angry Celtics bigs (perkins-KG-rasheed-Big baby) … Artest will be guarding Pierce, which will be a decent battle … and Boston’s bench has an edge. This is what I live for!

168 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:13:17pm

re: #166 Aceofwhat?

LVQ over the top? Perish the thought;)

there is no ‘top’ there

169 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:13:20pm

re: #90 albusteve

I’d start with a strike against Iran, then pound S Lebanon into rubble…who’s going to stop them? and if somebody steps up, is the US ready to rock and roll?…would we actually abandon Israel over timing or geography?

Sure. Why not?

170 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:13:28pm

re: #137 lawhawk

Erdogan is flirting with Iran and trying to keep up his support among the Islamists. Doing just enough to not run directly afoul of the US and NATO, but worrisome enough that they’re moving into the Iranian sphere of influence.

But at the same time, I fully expect that they are going to let more ships attempt to run the blockade…

The next ship (the Rachel Corrie) is coming from the Emerald Isle, not from Turkey as I understand it.

171 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:13:30pm

re: #165 albusteve

people like theater

People would rather eat steak.

172 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:13:55pm

re: #32 Charles

Biden solidifies defense of Israel: ‘What’s the big deal here?’

OK?

Can we please stop circulating this false idea that the Obama administration is anti-Israel?

Pretty please? Cherry on top?

Because it is not true.

I agree that we cannot claim this admin is anti-Israel. This admin’s problems have more to do with being much more critical of friends than our friends would like, and more accommodating to our enemies than our friends would like.

173 HoosierHoops  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:14:20pm

re: #167 _RememberTonyC

Not so fast my friend … Kobe is gonna have to play some defense in this series. In fact, he may have to spend at least some of his time guarding Rajon Rondo. That means less energy at the offensive end. Pau gasol will face 3-4 angry Celtics bigs (perkins-KG-rasheed-Big baby) … Artest will be guarding Pierce, which will be a decent battle … and Boston’s bench has an edge. This is what I live for!

GO CELTICS!

174 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:14:44pm

re: #171 researchok

People would rather eat steak.

wrong….people will live on bread and water if they can watch Am Idol

175 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:14:56pm

re: #168 albusteve

there is no ‘top’ there

Well, when you spend your days researching AGW, which threatens to decivilize large parts of the globe, the ‘top’ is very, very high.

176 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:15:18pm

re: #172 BryanS

I agree that we cannot claim this admin is anti-Israel. This admin’s problems have more to do with being much more critical of friends than our friends would like, and more accommodating to our enemies than our friends would like.

Agreed.

177 Semper Fi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:15:37pm

re: #139 Semper Fi

Lakers win ‘two’.
Thanks for that

Without googling I’m thinking historically maybe the Celts ‘did’ beat Lakers 4-zip.

178 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:15:55pm

re: #169 ryannon

Sure. Why not?

so…you are not john Wayne

179 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:16:42pm

re: #174 albusteve

wrong…people will live on bread and water if they can watch Am Idol

LOL- point taken.

180 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:16:54pm

re: #143 Charles

Turkey is the only developed nation with a lower acceptance of evolutionary science than the United States.

A very good reason to worry about Erdogan’s “populist” tripe.

181 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:17:02pm

re: #174 albusteve

wrong…people will live on bread and water if they can watch Am Idol ESPN.

And this is excellent bread, i’ll have you know/

182 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:17:11pm

re: #175 Dark_Falcon

Well, when you spend your days researching AGW, which threatens to decivilize large parts of the globe, the ‘top’ is very, very high.

I thought he was paid to post here…many people make a good living while posting here, I just thought he was one

183 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:18:20pm

re: #181 Aceofwhat?

And this is excellent bread, i’ll have you know/

what?…my excellent bread is green

184 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:18:28pm

There was another bit in that link I wanted to add:

Note: Gas for domestic use (cooking and heating) is supplied according to Palestinian demand and is not subject to any limitation by Israel. After the fuel depot at Nahal Oz was repeatedly attacked by Palestinian terrorists from the Gaza Strip, it was forced to limit its operations. The Kerem Shalom crossing has since been adapted to the transfer of fuel. In addition, a new gas line with double the capacity to transfer gas was built.

Biting the hand that feeds you, quite literally.

185 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:19:11pm

re: #177 Semper Fi

Without googling I’m thinking historically maybe the Celts ‘did’ beat Lakers 4-zip.

back in 1959 they did beat them in 4, but in 2008, it was a 6 game series

186 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:19:46pm

re: #181 Aceofwhat?

And this is excellent bread, i’ll have you know/

All right, now I’m in the mood for naan.

187 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:19:53pm

re: #184 marjoriemoon

Biting the hand that feeds you, quite literally.

Except that in the screwed-up world we inhabit, everyone yells at the hand for being so mean.

188 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:20:00pm

re: #182 albusteve

Steve, that’s a nasty thing to say. Downding.

189 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:20:29pm

gotta run folks …… have a good night.

190 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:20:43pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

Steve, that’s a nasty thing to say. Downding.

nasty!….gimme two for that one

191 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:21:00pm

re: #184 marjoriemoon

Well, there’s also the power station in Israel that was repeatedly targeted by Hamas rockets, along with the distribution grid to Gaza - in the attempt to cut power to Gaza.

Then, when the power goes out, Hamas blamed Israel.

Hamas will curse the dark even in the middle of the day.

192 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:21:58pm

re: #191 lawhawk

Well, there’s also the power station in Israel that was repeatedly targeted by Hamas rockets, along with the distribution grid to Gaza - in the attempt to cut power to Gaza.

Then, when the power goes out, Hamas blamed Israel.

Hamas will curse is the dark even in the middle of the day.

minor edit…

193 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:22:37pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

Steve, that’s a nasty thing to say. Downding.

I didn’t get the slam…maybe he was referring to all that internet money (a la south park)

194 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:22:41pm

re: #186 JasonA

All right, now I’m in the mood for naan.

actually, i indulged in some hot wings tonight, but i spent 40 minutes hitting off of the ball machine on my way home and i was sucking wind.

the ball machine is a harsh taskmaster.

195 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:22:59pm

re: #191 lawhawk

Well, there’s also the power station in Israel that was repeatedly targeted by Hamas rockets, along with the distribution grid to Gaza - in the attempt to cut power to Gaza.

Then, when the power goes out, Hamas blamed Israel.

Hamas will curse the dark even in the middle of the day.

and to think, the IDF had Hamas by the throat not two years ago…I wonder if the have second thoughts now

196 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:23:07pm

re: #190 albusteve

nasty!…gimme two for that one

done

197 pharmmajor  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:23:21pm

Sadly, history has shown that the truth will never stop the haters from spreading misinformation.

198 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:23:56pm

re: #195 albusteve

and to think, the IDF had Hamas by the throat not two years ago…I wonder if the have second thoughts now

I question the timing…

199 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:23:58pm

re: #196 Aceofwhat?

done

threefer?…put your heads together and go for it!

200 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:24:36pm

re: #174 albusteve

wrong…people will live on bread and water if they can watch Am Idol

wrong… Take Am Idol off the tube and it will probably be many months before I notice. But if you you come after my Tri-Tip, you better come twelve deep and armed to the teeth!

201 freetoken  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:25:29pm

re: #182 albusteve

…many people make a good living while posting here, I just thought he was one

Heh, how come I never get any of those lucrative Zionist paychecks that everyone else is getting?

202 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:25:35pm

re: #197 pharmmajor

Sadly, history has shown that the truth will never stop the haters from spreading misinformation.

no, but the truth can provide non-haters with a set of facts to inform their opinions. we’re not trying to persuade the bigots…we’re trying to rescue the duped.

203 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:25:48pm

re: #200 Slumbering Behemoth

wrong… Take Am Idol off the tube and it will probably be many months before I notice. But if you you come after my Tri-Tip, you better come twelve deep and armed to the teeth!

SARAH!
OVER HERE!

204 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:26:02pm

re: #178 albusteve

so…you are not john Wayne

I’m more like the tribes they distributed smallpox-infected blankets to. Not really the trusting type anymore.

205 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:26:17pm

re: #194 Aceofwhat?

the ball machine is a harsh taskmaster.

in bed…

206 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:26:39pm

re: #201 freetoken

Heh, how come I never get any of those lucrative Zionist paychecks that everyone else is getting?

well you kinda did but then came the tax man… sorry about that.

207 Semper Fi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:26:58pm

re: #185 _RememberTonyC

back in 1959 they did beat them in 4, but in 2008, it was a 6 game series

Those two teams have had their share of championship series and against each other also. I love both teams especially since Magic/Bird years. I’d like it to go 7 with whoever the 7th game home team is, the winner. Always liked a happy home crowd.

208 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:27:11pm

OT: Are things in the Gulf so desperate that there are calls to use a nuclear weapon to seal the leaking wellhead?

209 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:27:26pm

re: #201 freetoken

Heh, how come I never get any of those lucrative Zionist paychecks that everyone else is getting?

you only get a cut, your employer gets the rest

210 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:27:27pm

re: #191 lawhawk

Can we please get this man on Auto-ding?

211 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:28:17pm

re: #207 Semper Fi

I’d love to see the Celts take game 7 in LA.

212 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:28:21pm

re: #210 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Can we please get this man on Auto-ding?

He’s ejumicated.

213 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:28:51pm

re: #204 ryannon

I’m more like the tribes they distributed smallpox-infected blankets to. Not really the trusting type anymore.

well let me tell you pilgrim, you can trust J Wayne…in most of his movies…forget reality, doesn’t count anymore

214 Ebetty  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:28:59pm

re: #186 JasonA

Love naan. YUM!

215 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:29:26pm

re: #200 Slumbering Behemoth

wrong… Take Am Idol off the tube and it will probably be many months before I notice. But if you you come after my Tri-Tip, you better come twelve deep and armed to the teeth!

I couldn’t help but notice this year. Lee DeWize (the eventual winner) is from Mount Prospect, a Chicago suburb that also is home to Games Plus. Games Plus is a game store where I play Battletech, so every time this spring I’ve gone to GP I’ve seen banners cheering Lee on.

216 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:29:32pm

re: #208 lawhawk

OT: Are things in the Gulf so desperate that there are calls to use a nuclear weapon to seal the leaking wellhead?

well yes sorta kinda…

217 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:30:36pm

re: #210 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Can we please get this man on Auto-ding?

he don’t need no ding

218 Semper Fi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:30:50pm

I’m in my favorite restaurant now (free wi-fi) and turned down coffee or desert so gonna make my move.

219 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:30:54pm

re: #209 albusteve

you only get a cut, your employer gets the rest

It’s more like a multi level marketing system based on your registration date. Of course, Charles and Stinky get the lion’s share.

220 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:30:58pm

re: #208 lawhawk

OT: Are things in the Gulf so desperate that there are calls to use a nuclear weapon to seal the leaking wellhead?

I made that call several days ago. :D

221 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:31:49pm

re: #219 ryannon

It’s more like a multi level marketing system based on your registration date. Of course, Charles and Stinky get the lion’s share.

I’m large…what else matters?
mwahahaha!

222 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:32:01pm

re: #219 ryannon

It’s more like a multi level marketing system based on your registration date. Of course, Charles and Stinky get the lion’s share.

Amway!

223 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:32:04pm

re: #201 freetoken

Heh, how come I never get any of those lucrative Zionist paychecks that everyone else is getting?

Because we switched to direct deposit. ;)

224 Semper Fi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:32:18pm

re: #211 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I’d love to see the Celts take game 7 in LA.

In LA for that one. Just means one thing. If it goes 7, Jack Nicholson will pull them through, maybe.

225 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:32:25pm

re: #170 Dark_Falcon

It’s apparently heading towards Gaza from Malta. It purportedly is carrying the following:

medical equipment, wheelchairs, school supplies and cement, as well as 15 activists, including Northern Irish Nobel peace laureate Mairead Corrigan-Maguire and Denis Halliday, an Irish former senior UN diplomat.

Irish prime minister Brian Cowen described the vessel as Irish-owned and said it should be allowed to finish its mission. The ship was carrying 15 activists including a northern Irish Nobel Peace laureate.

If they’re truly concerned about Palestinians, they wont mind if Israel checks the cargo manifests and makes sure that the aid gets to those who actually need it in Gaza - without Hamas getting the benefits.

226 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:32:54pm

re: #215 Dark_Falcon

Um, what? Did I miss something? Or did you quote the wrong post?

227 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:33:56pm

re: #226 Slumbering Behemoth

Um, what? Did I miss something? Or did you quote the wrong post?

thank you. i was inspecting my punch…i hadn’t remembered spiking it…

228 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:34:07pm

re: #225 lawhawk

It’s apparently heading towards Gaza from Malta. It purportedly is carrying the following:

If they’re truly concerned about Palestinians, they wont mind if Israel checks the cargo manifests and makes sure that the aid gets to those who actually need it in Gaza - without Hamas getting the benefits.

It’s clear this flotilla was all about PR. Is there anywhere in the world besides the US and Israel that gives time to that point of view?

229 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:34:34pm

re: #186 JasonA

All right, now I’m in the mood for naan.

I’m going out for lunch tomorrow. Cheese naan, dal and chicken tandoori!

230 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:34:41pm

re: #208 lawhawk

OT: Are things in the Gulf so desperate that there are calls to use a nuclear weapon to seal the leaking wellhead?

Things are very bad, but that is simply nuts.

231 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:35:26pm

re: #226 Slumbering Behemoth

Um, what? Did I miss something? Or did you quote the wrong post?

I was just saying that I couldn’t help but notice AmIdol this year, that’s all. Just minor banter, nothing more.

232 Semper Fi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:35:31pm

See ya folks.

233 Political Atheist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:36:03pm

re: #208 lawhawk

OT: Are things in the Gulf so desperate that there are calls to use a nuclear weapon to seal the leaking wellhead?


Okay I agree its a horrible idea. But oh come on…

But if I read that right we would be damaging Obamas no test policy even if we were trying to save earth from an asteroid with a nuke. The Onion should do this-

excerpt
Government and private nuclear experts agreed that using a nuclear bomb would be not only risky technically, with unknown and possibly disastrous consequences from radiation, but also unwise geopolitically — it would violate arms treaties that the United States has signed and championed over the decades and do so at a time when President Obama is pushing for global nuclear disarmament.

234 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:36:15pm

re: #219 ryannon

It’s more like a multi level marketing system based on your registration date. Of course, Charles and Stinky get the lion’s Zion’s share.

Fixed.

235 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:36:33pm

re: #230 Charles

Things are very bad, but that is simply nuts.

It’s like someone asked “What could we possibly to do to make this worse?”

236 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:36:39pm

re: #231 Dark_Falcon

Ooohhh. Thanks for the clarification. I don’t know a fooking thang about Am Idol.

237 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:37:12pm

re: #230 Charles

Things are very bad, but that is simply nuts.

Well, I guess they could say, “See? We told you the spill wasn’t a big problem.” (point over their shoulder at the mushroom cloud), “That is a problem.”

238 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:37:27pm

re: #235 JasonA

It’s like someone asked “What could we possibly to do to make this worse?”

so when does it go off?

239 Political Atheist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:37:39pm

re: #230 Charles

Even less likely than that Turkish Navy escort for the fooltilla.

240 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:38:15pm

re: #236 Slumbering Behemoth

Ooohhh. Thanks for the clarification. I don’t know a fooking thang about Am Idol.

it’s a TV show…what more is there to know?….you certainly don’t actually watch it do you?

241 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:38:53pm

re: #230 Charles

Things are very bad, but that is simply nuts.

If it would work, may be less damaging environmentally than the oil. It is in very deep water.

That said, I’m wondering what real scientists—not armchair ones—would think about the prospect of trying this.

I think this is the right perspective—from the article:

A senior Los Alamos scientist, speaking on the condition of anonymity because his comments were unauthorized, ridiculed the idea of using a nuclear blast to solve the crisis in the Gulf.

“It’s not going to happen,” he said. “Technically, it would be exploring new ground in the midst of a disaster — and you might make it worse.”

242 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:39:19pm

re: #230 Charles

Things are very bad, but that is simply nuts.

I still shake my head when I read that.

“Probably the only thing we can do is create a weapon system and send it down 18,000 feet and detonate it, hopefully encasing the oil,” Matt Simmons, a Houston energy expert and investment banker, told Bloomberg News on Friday, attributing the nuclear idea to “all the best scientists.”

Right, create a nuclear device to “send it down 18,000 feet.” Should take what, a coupe of days to make one? Nah, maybe an hour, tops.

243 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:39:58pm

re: #238 brookly red

so when does it go off?

Don’t think it will. I’m confident the following statement sums up the administration’s position:

“It’s crazy,” one senior official said.

244 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:40:04pm

Detonating a nuke underwater in the gulf… wouldn’t that create a sort of tsunami?

245 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:40:35pm

re: #242 Gus 802

I hear Harry Stamper is on the case. //

I’m with you that the idea of using a nuke to shut down the spill is absolutely nuts.

246 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:40:48pm

re: #32 Charles

Biden solidifies defense of Israel: ‘What’s the big deal here?’

OK?

Can we please stop circulating this false idea that the Obama administration is anti-Israel?

Pretty please? Cherry on top?

Because it is not true.

One problem with the current political climate is that the opposition, the GOP since 1-20-09, seems less and less inclined to analyze events rationally even in terms that support their own position.

They are so consumed with hatred for Obama, and so desperate to pander to the “base” (ie lowest common denominator), that they will grasp at any straw to discredit him even if it bears no resemblance at all to the facts.

If Obama supports Israel, or turns up the heat on Pakistani terrorists, or otherwise takes a position with which the Republicans nominally agree, they simply refuse to acknowledge it.
The failure to acknowledge VP Biden’s blunt defense of Israel today is a case in point. This places him, and Obama, in direct conflict with the global left and, of course, with radical Islamists and their many supporters.

Nevertheless, it is virtually an article of faith on the right that Obama is working behind the scenes to destroy Israel, if not actually praying toward Mecca every few hours. The preposterous claim that left-fossils Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn used their alleged Obama connections to manipulate the IDF into botching the operation against the blockade runners is yet another example.
The wingnut propagandists know this is lunacy, but it plays well with the base and that is literally all that matters to them.

247 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:41:06pm

re: #242 Gus 802

Right, create a nuclear device to “send it down 18,000 feet.” Should take what, a coupe of days to make one? Nah, maybe an hour, tops.

Heh, i was just about to ask an investment banker what they thought our next move would be…gah…

248 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:41:10pm

re: #240 albusteve

it’s a TV show…what more is there to know?…you certainly don’t actually watch it do you?

Damn Steve, it’s like you don’t even know me at all. Of course I don’t watch it. In fact there is very little on television that interests me. Hell, I don’t even have cable.

249 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:41:19pm

re: #239 Rightwingconspirator

Even less likely than that Turkish Navy escort for the fooltilla.

I hope you’re right. If Turkey sent escorts, Israel would be in very serious trouble.

250 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:41:27pm

re: #244 Fozzie Bear

Detonating a nuke underwater in the gulf… wouldn’t that create a sort of tsunami?

obviously people advocating nuking the oil live on Crete

251 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:41:29pm

re: #208 lawhawk

OT: Are things in the Gulf so desperate that there are calls to use a nuclear weapon to seal the leaking wellhead?

Yes, actually things are pretty desperate, and the Coast Guard FINALLY gave the go-ahead to coastal barrier projects for Louisiana, that Jindal has been asking for since at least last week.

(And OMG, how damned cool is it I can link to my very own “LGF Pages”. For sure, this feature alone is worth the price of a cookbook to help support LGF, doncha think?)

252 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:41:29pm

re: #245 lawhawk

I hear Harry Stamper is on the case. //

I’m with you that the idea of using a nuke to shut down the spill is absolutely nuts.

It would probably take five years to develop. And even then it would a random experiment.

253 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:41:33pm

re: #244 Fozzie Bear

Nah, I don’t think so.

254 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:42:12pm

re: #244 Fozzie Bear

Detonating a nuke underwater in the gulf… wouldn’t that create a sort of tsunami?

Nah. Earthquakes capable of unleashing noticeable tsunamis are far, far more powerful than a single nuke.

255 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:42:16pm

re: #242 Gus 802

Right, create a nuclear device to “send it down 18,000 feet.” Should take what, a coupe of days to make one? Nah, maybe an hour, tops.

We’ve already done a lot of underwater nuclear testing—as have the Russians. I believe the French may have done their tests underwater as well.

256 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:42:16pm

re: #247 Aceofwhat?

Heh, i was just about to ask an investment banker what they thought our next move would be…gah…

Yeah, we should get Sigma-X’s opinion while we’re at it.

/

257 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:42:22pm

A quick skim of Stormfront and Paulian forums show a lot of disgust with their new “conservative” Tea Party pals regarding Israel. The relationship has already been consummated so it’s too late for an annulment, maybe a divorce some time in the future.

258 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:42:53pm

re: #244 Fozzie Bear

Detonating a nuke underwater in the gulf… wouldn’t that create a sort of tsunami?

No, it wouldn’t. The total energy of a nuclear bomb, even a very large one, is orders of magnitude lower than that of the earthquakes that actually cause tsunamis.

259 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:43:01pm

re: #244 Fozzie Bear

Detonating a nuke underwater in the gulf… wouldn’t that create a sort of tsunami?

Not too much. It would be a small nuke, so the water displacement would be fairly small.

260 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:43:08pm

re: #251 reine.de.tout

(And OMG, how damned cool is it I can link to my very own “LGF Pages”. For sure, this feature alone is worth the price of a cookbook to help support LGF, doncha think?)


Preach!

261 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:43:25pm

re: #244 Fozzie Bear

Detonating a nuke underwater in the gulf… wouldn’t that create a sort of tsunami?

Nah. But the coastal areas would get plenty of ready to eat steamed fish, so I say go for it!
/

262 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:43:39pm

re: #210 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Can we please get this man on Auto-ding?

I save many of lawhawk’s posts to my faves, and have a tag “lawhawk”, so I can find them.

263 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:43:44pm

re: #230 Charles

Things are very bad, but that is simply nuts.

Well what are some of the possible consequences? Is there any scientific projections of what might happen (worst case scenario)?

264 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:43:46pm

re: #249 Dark_Falcon

I hope you’re right. If Turkey sent escorts, Israel would be in very serious trouble.

We all would be. If anything would cause another military style coup in Turkey, Erdogan pulling a stunt like that would be a proximate cause.

265 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:44:11pm

re: #248 Slumbering Behemoth

Damn Steve, it’s like you don’t even know me at all. Of course I don’t watch it. In fact there is very little on television that interests me. Hell, I don’t even have cable.

cool, then we are an Army Of Two!

266 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:44:12pm

All I get is crappy water….
drunk birds falling out of Australian sky

267 Political Atheist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:44:54pm

re: #249 Dark_Falcon

Well as Charles said, ain’t gonna happen. Honestly I am more concerned about this…
[Link: abcnews.go.com…]

All those ships from both sides out there too close for comfort.

268 Stanley Sea  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:44:57pm

re: #260 Killgore Trout

Preach!

BUY!

I bet there’s someone here who hasn’t bought the really inexpensive, worth every measly penny cookbook yet.

269 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:45:03pm

re: #257 Killgore Trout

A quick skim of Stormfront and Paulian forums show a lot of disgust with their new “conservative” Tea Party pals regarding Israel. The relationship has already been consummated so it’s too late for an annulment, maybe a divorce some time in the future.

[doing the Happy Dance]

That’s very good news. Perhaps the only positive of this crisis is that it way cause the worst of the crazies to be read out of the right. This would be a seriously positive development.

270 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:45:41pm

re: #262 reine.de.tout

I save many of lawhawk’s posts to my faves, and have a tag “lawhawk”, so I can find them.

he’s his own Folder

271 HoosierHoops  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:45:48pm

re: #244 Fozzie Bear

Detonating a nuke underwater in the gulf… wouldn’t that create a sort of tsunami?

Why a small leak when we could just blow the shit out of everything?
You get me a good Nuke we could cave a mile wide hole of oil leaks…With just a tad of radioactivity for flavoring…
/Let’s drop the big one and see what happens?
//Who knew Randy Newman would be a prophet??

272 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:46:03pm

OK, if this pressure calculator is correct then at 18,000 feet we’re talking 7818.1948 PSI. That’s almost 4 tons for every square inch.

273 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:46:21pm

BTW -

For those of you thinking of ordering but concerned about privacy issues, I should let you all know that I never see the names or any of the information about who has ordered what. All I ever see is the number of books sold. All the ordering information, your name, address, etc., is handled by lulu.com, and is NOT AVAILABLE to me.

So if that is a concern for anyone, please rest assured you can order with your privacy intact.

275 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:46:49pm

re: #270 albusteve

he’s his own Folder

Absolutely!

276 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:46:56pm

re: #263 Boogberg

Well what are some of the possible consequences? Is there any scientific projections of what might happen (worst case scenario)?

None that i know of, which is the problem.

Isn’t worst case scenario that the explosion doesn’t seal the well and it all comes gushing out?

I’ll pass…

277 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:47:15pm

re: #272 Gus 802

OK, if this pressure calculator is correct then at 18,000 feet we’re talking 7818.1948 PSI. That’s almost 4 tons for every square inch.

okay, I’ll do it!…where do I start?

278 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:47:42pm

re: #277 albusteve

okay, I’ll do it!…where do I start?

First you’ll need some yellowcake.

/

279 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:47:50pm

re: #269 Dark_Falcon

[doing the Happy Dance]

That’s very good news. Perhaps the only positive of this crisis is that it way cause the worst of the crazies to be read out of the right. This would be a seriously positive development.

I wish I could agree, but the right has already swallowed too many camels to make me think they’ll notice that gnat.

280 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:47:59pm

re: #265 albusteve

cool, then we are an Army Of Two!

That’s a video game, a subject I know substantially more about than television. Actually, gaming is pretty much the only reason I keep a TV at all. Though I do like NOVA and the odd program here and there.

281 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:48:28pm

My daughter graduated #1 in her class at Downstate Medical Center School of Nursing!

282 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:48:31pm

I am reposting this as it is on topic:

re: #217 ralphieboy

What you guys seem to be advocating is nothing less than a “Final Solution”, and I can imagine that the Israelis somehow could just not bring themselves to pull something like that off…

What disgusting tripe, Germany and Japan were fought until the point of unconditional surrender without the Allies resorting to any sort of “Final Solution.” How vile and ignorant of you to use that particular phrase when talking about Israel.

Israel could fight the next war with the intention of the full military defeat and unconditional surrender of its attackers and never come close to genocide. This spreading effort to invert history and portray the Jews who escaped Hitler’s death camps as the new Nazis each time they defend themselves is not only dishonest, it displays antiSemitism.

283 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:48:32pm

re: #276 Aceofwhat?

None that i know of, which is the problem.

Isn’t worst case scenario that the explosion doesn’t seal the well and it all comes gushing out?

I’ll pass…

That seems likely to me. When I read the idea described, the first thing I thought was “wouldn’t the pressure wave tear a giant hole before the heat could create a plug?”.

284 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:48:35pm

re: #275 reine.de.tout

Absolutely!

look, I have a couple of lawhawk autographs…want to check them out?

285 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:48:41pm

re: #13 Cato the Elder

Cato, are you still around?

Just to say I’ll take you up on the Palin thing — I say she will not win the GOP nomination, you say she will.

I propose the following bet: if you win, you get to choose an humiliating avatar for me for the period of 2 months. If I win, you use the avatar of my choice for a week.

That’s how confident I am. I hope you still maintain the same confidence in your eerily prescient predictions regarding Presidential nominees.

286 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:48:56pm

re: #279 Charles

I wish I could agree, but the right has already swallowed too many camels to make me think they’ll notice that gnat.

Have to start somewhere.

287 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:49:13pm

re: #278 Gus 802

First you’ll need some yellowcake.

/

Pillsbury?…done
what’s next?

288 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:49:53pm

re: #287 albusteve

Pillsbury?…done
what’s next?

OK, now you’ll need a centrifuge. Cake mixer might do.

289 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:50:08pm

Brooklyn Bridge getting a $500 million makeover

The Brooklyn Bridge has been through a lot in its 127 years, and now the New York icon needs a facelift.

The famous 1.1-mile suspension bridge is getting a $500 million makeover, a project that includes a complete repainting and the repair of elements that were part of its original construction.

Vice President Joe Biden joined Mayor Michael Bloomberg Wednesday to mark the beginning of the rehab, which is set to be completed in four years.

The federal economic recovery act provided $30 million for the effort; the rest of the funding comes from the city and other federal sources.

Standing in front of an access ramp where huge swaths of peeling paint exposed patches of rusted steel, Biden said the makeover was a “badly needed” upgrade for the beloved bridge.

“This bridge is an emblem of what this great country represents,” he said.

The bridge, with its two neo-Gothic towers and elegant steel cables, is one of New York City’s most revered pieces of architecture. Designed by engineer John Augustus Roebling, it opened May 24, 1883, after 13 years of building at a cost of $15 million.

The East River span — the subject of several books, a Ken Burns documentary and countless songs — helped spur the growth of the city’s outer boroughs. It also has played an important role in major events throughout city history, including on Sept. 11, 2001, when a flood of people fled lower Manhattan by walking across the bridge.

The structure has been spruced up many times over the years, but not recently.

“It is the first major work on the bridge in 10 years,” Bloomberg said….

290 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:50:27pm

re: #274 Varek Raith

Dammit.

BP abandons use of jammed diamond wire saw, thwarting company’s latest bid to slow Gulf oil spill, Thad Allen says.

crap.
crap crap crap crap crap.

The way the live feed looks to me, it appears (to my admittedly untrained eye) that the sawing they’ve done thus far has increased the flow. I guess we’ll have to wait for reports about that, though I would not trust anything BP says.

Oh, crap.

291 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:50:55pm

re: #276 Aceofwhat?

None that i know of, which is the problem.

Isn’t worst case scenario that the explosion doesn’t seal the well and it all comes gushing out?

I’ll pass…

Well can’t they do some scale modeling like the Mythbuster guys?

292 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:51:05pm

re: #289 researchok

Brooklyn Bridge getting a $500 million makeover

OMG! I think I almost see Bloomberg smiling!

293 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:51:22pm

re: #269 Dark_Falcon

[doing the Happy Dance]

That’s very good news. Perhaps the only positive of this crisis is that it way cause the worst of the crazies to be read out of the right. This would be a seriously positive development.

I suspect this story is probably going to fade from the news fairly soon. The “conservatives” and “libertarians” have always mistrusted each other over Israel and it might eventually prove to be a breaking point but I suspect that as soon as this story fades from the headlines they’ll go right back to being chums again. The real danger is what happens in the mean time. “Conservatives” have been rubbing elbows with the Paulians for a while now and their ideologies are merging. It’s a tough call to tell who’s going to come out on top.

294 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:51:25pm

This is a no win situation for both the Palestinians and Israelis yet it is being approached by each side like there could be a winner. It’s probably about time to bifurcate the path forward and make an all out try for a real peace deal on the West Bank side. Ignore Hamas for now, they will either become irrelevant or otherwise get overthrown once the Gazans realize there is a better way. Of course let’s not underestimate the Palestinians’ collective ability to continue suffering for a lost cause no matter how unrealistic (right of return including having property restored). On the other side, let’s not underestimate the will of the ultra-radical orthodox element that sees virtually the entire West Bank as Jewish Holy Land.

295 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:51:28pm

re: #288 Gus 802

OK, now you’ll need a centrifuge. Cake mixer might do.

ooops! recess!

296 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:51:32pm

re: #288 Gus 802

OK, now you’ll need a centrifuge. Cake mixer might do.

Toss in a little hydrofluoric acid.

297 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:52:07pm

re: #289 researchok

well spent…go there, do the Bridge

298 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:52:09pm

Ireland asks Israel for safe passage of another ship with aid for Gaza
 From Jill Dougherty, CNN Foreign Affairs Correspondent
June 3, 2010 — Updated 0105 GMT (0905 HKT)

Irish government asks Israel not to interfere with humanitarian aid for Gaza
Israeli government official offers same deal rejected by a flotilla attacked Monday by Israeli commandos

(CNN) — The Irish government is asking that Israel not interfere with an Irish-owned ship en route to Gaza to deliver humanitarian cargo.
But an Israeli government official who spoke on background because of the diplomatic sensitivity of the issue told CNN “the Israeli government is offering to receive the ship’s cargo, as it has offered other vessels, if it docks at [Israel’s] Ashdod port. The Israeli government will unload the cargo, screen it, and deliver it to Gaza.”
That was the same deal rejected by a flotilla of six ships before Israeli commandos attacked one of them Monday, killing nine of the activists who were aboard.
The Irish Foreign Ministry is requesting that Israel allow the MV Rachel Corrie, which was not part of Monday’s flotilla, passage to deliver its cargo.
The Irish Ministry of Foreign Affairs said the vessel, owned by the Irish Free Gaza Movement, left Dundalk, Ireland, in mid-May carrying a number of Irish citizens. It may approach Gaza in the next day or two, the ministry said.
Ireland’s minister of foreign affairs, Micheal Martin, told the lower house of the Irish Parliament, the Dail, that he had asked the Israeli ambassador to convey to his government his request that, “following the tragedy which has occurred, the Rachel Corrie be allowed to continue unimpeded, and to deliver its cargo to Gaza.”
“We will be watching this situation very closely — as indeed will the world — and it is imperative that Israel avoid any action which leads to further bloodshed,” the foreign minister said.
The Israeli government has said it must enforce the blockade to ensure that weapons are not smuggled into Gaza.

Irish Free Gaza website (instructive):

[Link: www.freegaza.org…]

299 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:52:13pm

re: #263 Boogberg

Well what are some of the possible consequences? Is there any scientific projections of what might happen (worst case scenario)?

I don’t know about projections, but there is actual experience. Even deep hard-rock nuclear tests in the Nevada desert sometimes caused enough fracturing to vent to the surface and release radioactive fallout.
The possible effect in deep water, in an oil field no less, is difficult to predict but it would not be good.

300 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:53:10pm

re: #242 Gus 802

Right, create a nuclear device to “send it down 18,000 feet.” Should take what, a coupe of days to make one? Nah, maybe an hour, tops.

I’ve seen this plot line before, only in space. You just need to find the right team of rugged individualists who never want to pay taxes again.

301 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:54:12pm

re: #292 Gus 802

OMG! I think I almost see Bloomberg smiling!

well don’t you think his construction companies got the contract?

302 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:54:31pm

re: #296 BryanS

Toss in a little hydrofluoric acid.

Now that I think of it. If they wanted to try something like this it doesn’t have to be a nuclear device. It could be conventional. Problem would be that you would have to drill adjacent to the current well site and close enough for the detonation to cause a collapse of the current well.

303 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:55:08pm

re: #299 Shiplord Kirel

I don’t know about projections, but there is actual experience. Even deep hard-rock nuclear tests in the Nevada desert sometimes caused enough fracturing to vent to the surface and release radioactive fallout.
The possible effect in deep water, in an oil field no less, is difficult to predict but it would not be good.

To spell it out, you might have radioactive gas and oil spewing out of dozens of little holes.

304 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:55:08pm

re: #298 ryannon

Sure, they can come in with their cargo of humanitarian aid. Just dock in Israel first and let them inspect the cargo. Simple.

But watch. They’re going to use the flotilla incident as an excuse to claim that they’re too afraid of the evil Israelis to do something reasonable like that.

305 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:55:11pm

re: #279 Charles

I wish I could agree, but the right has already swallowed too many camels to make me think they’ll notice that gnat.

I know, but things still might go the right way. I have to hope.

306 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:55:12pm

re: #294 tommysilver

This is a no win situation for both the Palestinians and Israelis yet it is being approached by each side like there could be a winner. It’s probably about time to bifurcate the path forward and make an all out try for a real peace deal on the West Bank side. Ignore Hamas for now, they will either become irrelevant or otherwise get overthrown once the Gazans realize there is a better way. Of course let’s not underestimate the Palestinians’ collective ability to continue suffering for a lost cause no matter how unrealistic (right of return including having property restored). On the other side, let’s not underestimate the will of the ultra-radical orthodox element that sees virtually the entire West Bank as Jewish Holy Land.

Boo hiss… they ain’t getting Jerusalem.

307 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:55:40pm

re: #300 goddamnedfrank

I’ve seen this plot line before, only in space. You just need to find the right team of rugged individualists who never want to pay taxes again.

Yippe-ki-yay…

308 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:56:02pm

re: #300 goddamnedfrank

I’ve seen this plot line before, only in space. You just need to find the right team of rugged individualists who never want to pay taxes again.

LMFAO

309 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:56:06pm

re: #307 Gus 802

Yippe-ki-yay…

WRONG MOVIE!11!!

310 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:56:22pm

re: #242 Gus 802

Right, create a nuclear device to “send it down 18,000 feet.” Should take what, a coupe of days to make one? Nah, maybe an hour, tops.

create? no just buy one from NK or Iran…

311 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:56:32pm

re: #301 brookly red

well don’t you think his construction companies got the contract?

He’s part owner of a construction firm? Probably.

312 Political Atheist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:56:35pm

re: #299 Shiplord Kirel

The Navy did underwater tests but not under seabed!

But I have to wonder, could the hole not be collapsed solid with a sizable conventional blast?

Plus this-Why not bring a new functional BOP in and replace this one? They got it there to begin with.

313 HoosierHoops  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:56:36pm

Somebody wanted to nuke the gulf spill…and one of the best songwriters of all time wrote the darkest and funniest songs about Nukes years ago…
Let’s drop the big one

No one likes us-I don’t know why
We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try
But all around, even our old friends put us down
Let’s drop the big one and see what happens

We give them money-but are they grateful?
No, they’re spiteful and they’re hateful
They don’t respect us-so let’s surprise them
We’ll drop the big one and pulverize them

Asia’s crowded and Europe’s too old
Africa is far too hot
And Canada’s too cold
And South America stole our name
Let’s drop the big one
There’ll be no one left to blame us

We’ll save Australia
Don’t wanna hurt no kangaroo
We’ll build an All American amusement park there
They got surfin’, too

Boom goes London and boom Paris
More room for you and more room for me
And every city the whole world round
Will just be another American town
Oh, how peaceful it will be
We’ll set everybody free
You’ll wear a Japanese kimono babe
And there’ll be Italian shoes for me

They all hate us anyhow
So let’s drop the big one now
Let’s drop the big one now

314 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:57:01pm

re: #302 Gus 802

Now that I think of it. If they wanted to try something like this it doesn’t have to be a nuclear device. It could be conventional. Problem would be that you would have to drill adjacent to the current well site and close enough for the detonation to cause a collapse of the current well.

And why is this oil gushing in the first place? Has to be under enormous pressure—would an explosion potentially create another fissure where oil leaks out? I wonder how deep they had to drill below the ocean floor to get at the oil.

315 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:57:01pm

re: #309 Varek Raith

WRONG MOVIE!11!!

I know. Couldn’t think of anything from the right movie. All I remember is the sappy music at the end.

316 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:57:33pm

re: #306 marjoriemoon

Boo hiss… they ain’t getting Jerusalem.

I guess that makes me ultra radical Orthodox. Who knew!

317 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:58:01pm

re: #312 Rightwingconspirator

The Navy did underwater tests but not under seabed!

But I have to wonder, could the hole not be collapsed solid with a sizable conventional blast?

Plus this-Why not bring a new functional BOP in and replace this one? They got it there to begin with.

2000ft is the deepest.

I don’t even know if one of our nukes could survive the pressure of 5000+ feet.

318 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:58:07pm

re: #314 BryanS

And why is this oil gushing in the first place? Has to be under enormous pressure—would an explosion potentially create another fissure where oil leaks out? I wonder how deep they had to drill below the ocean floor to get at the oil.

Yep, it would have to go against the current flow. That is if they wanted to send it down existing well. They’re dreaming.

319 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:58:12pm

re: #304 Charles

Sure, they can come in with their cargo of humanitarian aid. Just dock in Israel first and let them inspect the cargo. Simple.

But watch. They’re going to use the flotilla incident as an excuse to claim that they’re too afraid of the evil Israelis to do something reasonable like that.

How about a compromise proposal by Obama: The US will send a team to inspect the ship’s cargo at sea. If no contraband is found, the ship can dock in Gaza. I still think the proposal would be refused, but it might help Israel to make the offer, as well put the Turks clearly in the wrong.

This is just an idea, everyone please let me know what you think.

320 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:58:41pm

Koskidz struggle with reality….
Israel Must Release the Full Raid Tapes

Every news outlet in the world has been running the tape of the Israeli commando raid on Free Gaza Flotilla released by the Israeli Defense Forces. It lasts about a minute and clearly shows the commandos being attacked by the people on board as they rappel down from their helicopters.

I don’t argue with that portion of the tape at all. You can see the sticks and rods clearly. The passengers do hit the commandos boarding their ship. To argue otherwise is ludicrous. But what we don’t see is what happened before and after that one minute of tape that was released.
…
If the Israeli government is convinced they took the appropriate action in this case, they can go a long way toward proving that by giving us the whole tape. If not, we have to assume they’re hiding something. That opens them up to justifiable speculation as to what they really did on board that ship. In the end, nine passengers were killed and dozens more shot and wounded. How did that happen? Was it in any way justifiable? There’s only one way to know. Release the tapes.

Don’t worry, lefties. The IDF is going through all the cell phone vids captured from the “Peace Activists” Much more video will be coming out soon.

321 freetoken  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:58:59pm

re: #257 Killgore Trout

The relationship has already been consummated so it’s too late for an annulment, maybe a divorce some time in the future.

Who’ll get the kids?

322 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:59:03pm

re: #274 Varek Raith

Dammit.

BP abandons use of jammed diamond wire saw, thwarting company’s latest bid to slow Gulf oil spill, Thad Allen says.

Yes, DSAW was not up to the task, too much pressure, oil and sand. Couldn’t cut the Drill String.

Next they will bring in some giant sheers, 20 feet long and 10 feet high, to snip away the Riser and Drill String, and there is also the big giant CRAW to fall back on as that successfully chomped the Riser already.

The IUD cap will have to be modified to fit the more uneven cut that is likely to result.

323 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:59:25pm

re: #257 Killgore Trout

A quick skim of Stormfront and Paulian forums show a lot of disgust with their new “conservative” Tea Party pals regarding Israel. The relationship has already been consummated so it’s too late for an annulment, maybe a divorce some time in the future.

Foreign policy is the area in which Paulians and Palians will always be more divided. They don’t agree on anything, including both wars and pretty much any other US intervention abroad.

324 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 6:59:28pm

re: #294 tommysilver

This is a no win situation for both the Palestinians and Israelis yet it is being approached by each side like there could be a winner. It’s probably about time to bifurcate the path forward and make an all out try for a real peace deal on the West Bank side. Ignore Hamas for now, they will either become irrelevant or otherwise get overthrown once the Gazans realize there is a better way. Of course let’s not underestimate the Palestinians’ collective ability to continue suffering for a lost cause no matter how unrealistic (right of return including having property restored). On the other side, let’s not underestimate the will of the ultra-radical orthodox element that sees virtually the entire West Bank as Jewish Holy Land.

It will always be the Jewish Holy Land.

325 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:00:02pm

re: #320 Killgore Trout

Koskidz struggle with reality…
Israel Must Release the Full Raid Tapes

Don’t worry, lefties. The IDF is going through all the cell phone vids captured from the “Peace Activists” Much more video will be coming out soon.

The people on the ships have their own videos.
Has there been a request for them to release the full versions of their videos with sound?

326 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:00:05pm

re: #321 freetoken

Who’ll get the kids?

Forget about the kids. The house and the dog are what really count.

327 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:00:52pm

re: #326 Killgore Trout

Forget about the kids. The house and the dog are what really count.

How are the kittehs?

328 freetoken  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:00:53pm

re: #322 Bagua

This whole thing is turning into a textbook example of why flying-by-the-seat-of-your-pants isn’t a good replacement for thoughtful engineering.

329 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:00:54pm

re: #317 Varek Raith

2000ft is the deepest.

I don’t even know if one of our nukes could survive the pressure of 5000+ feet.

Put it inside of one of those DSROVs.

330 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:01:01pm

re: #325 reine.de.tout

The people on the ships have their own videos.
Has there been a request for them to release the full versions of their videos with sound?


Of course not but I’m sure the IDF will do it for them.

331 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:01:07pm

re: #319 Dark_Falcon

How about a compromise proposal by Obama: The US will send a team to inspect the ship’s cargo at sea. If no contraband is found, the ship can dock in Gaza. I still think the proposal would be refused, but it might help Israel to make the offer, as well put the Turks clearly in the wrong.

This is just an idea, everyone please let me know what you think.

well we do have a mutual defense treaty with Israel, so I guess it would not be unreasonable for us to deploy our navy to assist…

332 HoosierHoops  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:01:09pm

re: #324 Alouette

It will always be the Jewish Holy Land of Milk and Honey.

333 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:02:14pm

re: #331 brookly red

well we do have a mutual defense treaty with Israel, so I guess it would not be unreasonable for us to deploy our navy to assist…

nice, but they don’t need any assistance

334 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:02:24pm

re: #304 Charles

Sure, they can come in with their cargo of humanitarian aid. Just dock in Israel first and let them inspect the cargo. Simple.

But watch. They’re going to use the flotilla incident as an excuse to claim that they’re too afraid of the evil Israelis to do something reasonable like that.

No doubt.

I also thought it was interesting to see who’s who in the Free Gaza hierarchy, from the board of directors to the ‘endorsers’. With the exception of Noam Chomsky, I’m not really up on it enough to identify the usual suspects - and worse.

[Link: www.freegaza.org…]

335 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:02:25pm

re: #329 Boogberg

Put it inside of one of those DSROVs.

I don’t think detonating one on the surface would work. I think you’d have to drill deep into the seabed. Probably take as long to do as the relief wells…

336 jordash1212  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:02:38pm

My question is whether or not this is enough. I can’t really find an official response. Some people quote the UN as saying it’s only 1/4 of what’s needed. Others deny that the Palestinians need anything more. What I do know is that very few countries would be willing to spend so much money on people that voted a government like Hamas into power.

337 Political Atheist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:02:55pm

re: #320 Killgore Trout

Facts on tape is as hot knife to butter. Ever since Rodney King, and about as clear cut too. Video is forever.

338 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:03:12pm

re: #302 Gus 802

Now that I think of it. If they wanted to try something like this it doesn’t have to be a nuclear device. It could be conventional. Problem would be that you would have to drill adjacent to the current well site and close enough for the detonation to cause a collapse of the current well.

The most likely result would be a true wild well which would bubble up through the muck for years, until the reservoir runs dry. Remember they were losing circulation for months, part of why then can’t top kill it and why they may not be able to bull head it with the relief wells.


And note, that this reservoir is most likely not the 100 million barrels BP is claiming, probably a Billion barres, with a B.

339 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:03:53pm

re: #325 reine.de.tout

The people on the ships have their own videos.
Has there been a request for them to release the full versions of their videos with sound?

They are, as we speak, editing them to include old women and young children amongst the carnage.

340 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:03:55pm

re: #327 reine.de.tout

How are the kittehs?

They’re doing ok but not great. No signs or major health issues but they still can’t be together. Ever since I gave them the Hartz earmite medicine they attack each other viciously if given the chance. I’m hoping that they can go back to being friends in a few days but they have to stay separated for now.

341 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:04:05pm

re: #321 freetoken

Who’ll get the kids?

The kids’ll have to ‘Go Galt’ and start taking care of themselves, the lazy bastards. I mean, what? Do those brats think they are entitled to the sweat of another man’s brow?

342 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:04:20pm

these have been flying over the valley all day…some are distinctly Coastie white and orange….
loud!, OOH RAH!

Image: c130_4.jpg

343 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:04:26pm

re: #336 jordash1212

My question is whether or not this is enough. I can’t really find an official response. Some people quote the UN as saying it’s only 1/4 of what’s needed. Others deny that the Palestinians need anything more. What I do know is that very few countries would be willing to spend so much money on people that voted a government like Hamas into power.


Take a look at these links and you can decide for yourself if they are getting “enough”.

re: #43 Alouette

Danish journalist goes to Gaza to report on starvation.

Starvation in Gaza.

Starvation and Suffering.

The horror. THE HORROR.

Just like the Warsaw Ghetto!

344 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:04:29pm

re: #320 Killgore Trout

Koskidz struggle with reality…
Israel Must Release the Full Raid Tapes

Don’t worry, lefties. The IDF is going through all the cell phone vids captured from the “Peace Activists” Much more video will be coming out soon.

Oh boy. Looks like they got their Cruncy Approved chant. They love chants. Looks ol’ Cenk Uygur came up with one for them: Release the tapes! Now that we have that we can create the full chant to go along with the giant paper mache puppet:

What do we want!
Release the tapes!
When do we want it!
Now!
(Repeat)

Zzzzzzzzzz

345 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:04:37pm

re: #319 Dark_Falcon

How about a compromise proposal by Obama: The US will send a team to inspect the ship’s cargo at sea. If no contraband is found, the ship can dock in Gaza. I still think the proposal would be refused, but it might help Israel to make the offer, as well put the Turks clearly in the wrong.

This is just an idea, everyone please let me know what you think.

Eh, i like Biden’s take. Asking them to make a slight diversion is no big deal. If they refuse, they have something to hide.

346 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:04:41pm

re: #333 albusteve

nice, but they don’t need any assistance

OK then a strongly worded letter, if we can tell BP “I will not tolerate…” surely we can tell Hamas “oh please don’t”… just a thought.

347 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:05:04pm

re: #344 Gus 802

Oops… Cruncy = Crunchy

348 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:05:07pm

re: #344 Gus 802

lol@lefties

349 researchok  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:05:09pm

Calif. moves to ban plastic bags at grocery stores

It could soon cost California shoppers at the checkout aisle if they forget to bring their own bags to the store under what would be the nation’s first statewide plastic bag ban.
The California Assembly on Wednesday passed legislation prohibiting pharmacies and grocery, liquor and convenience stores from giving out plastic bags. The bill also calls for customers to be charged for using store-issued paper bags.
The goal is to get rid of unsightly disposable plastic bags that often wind up in urban rivers and the ocean, as well as to reduce the number of bags heading for landfills.
“The biggest way to eliminate this kind of pollution is to ban it,” said Assemblywoman Julia Brownley, D-Santa Monica, who authored the bill.
Discouraging plastic bag use through fees or bans first gained traction outside of the U.S. in nations such as South Africa, Ireland, China and Bangladesh.
In 2007, San Francisco became the first U.S. city to require supermarkets and large drug stores to offer customers bags made only of recyclable paper, plastic that can be turned into compost, or sturdy cloth or plastic that can be reused.
Wal-Mart Stores Inc. got rid of plastic bags at three of its Northern California stores this January as part of a pilot program to gauge customer response.
No other U.S. state has adopted a ban, according to Brownley’s office…

350 sandbox  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:05:15pm

Have we established that Israel can technically disable the boats, as opposed to boarding. Is that a realistic option?

351 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:05:45pm

re: #289 researchok

The rehab includes repainting the bridge with a new coat of long lasting paint - but the real work is to replace/rehab the approach spans. On the Manhattan side, one of the approaches was in so bad shape, that back in 1999 engineers built a bridge to support the bridge and carry the loads.

Also in 1999, the NYCDOT rehabilitated the Manhattan bridge approach over Franklin Square, at the intersection of Pearl and Cherry streets. Engineers retrofitted the existing trapezoidal trusses with six steel arches founded into the original masonry abutments. The steel arches, which vary in length from 147 feet to 190 feet (to fit within the original truss framework), were used as permanent falsework to support the original trapezoidal trusses. The end result was a structure that not only preserved the aesthetic quality, but also enhanced the structural viability of the original span.

And much of the work was scheduled before the ARRA and federal funds were available - because the bridge is vital to NYC infrastructure and the conditions necessitated attention.

352 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:05:51pm

re: #334 ryannon

No doubt.

I also thought it was interesting to see who’s who in the Free Gaza hierarchy, from the board of directors to the ‘endorsers’. With the exception of Noam Chomsky, I’m not really up on it enough to identify the usual suspects - and worse.

[Link: www.freegaza.org…]

What about this woman, Ewa Jasiewicz (UK). Says her articles appeared in “Red Pepper”. Wasn’t that the name of the newspaper in Uganda that outed the gay folks?

353 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:06:19pm

re: #330 Killgore Trout

Of course not but I’m sure the IDF will do it for them.

Something tells me the Israelis made a very thorough search of the passengers’ belongings, paying special attention to smartphones and other devices that can record video.

354 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:06:25pm

re: #348 Killgore Trout

lol@lefties

Hey, since they’re on a boat.

“And remember folks! Towelie sez that towels help keep you dry.”

/

355 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:06:59pm

re: #352 marjoriemoon

What about this woman, Ewa Jasiewicz (UK). Says her articles appeared in “Red Pepper”. Wasn’t that the name of the newspaper in Uganda that outed the gay folks?

I haven’t the slightest. But there are people here who do.

356 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:06:59pm

re: #304 Charles

Sure, they can come in with their cargo of humanitarian aid. Just dock in Israel first and let them inspect the cargo. Simple.

But watch. They’re going to use the flotilla incident as an excuse to claim that they’re too afraid of the evil Israelis to do something reasonable like that.

Thats sort of what I surmised earlier when it was let known that the Palis were now refusing to take the cargo that was on board. Their spin will be that now that the Israelis have gone through it, Mossad will have booby trapped it or hid surveillance equipment in it

357 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:07:10pm

re: #346 brookly red

OK then a strongly worded letter, if we can tell BP “I will not tolerate…” surely we can tell Hamas “oh please don’t”… just a thought.

not gonna happen…BO does not have the conviction to speak in direct, frank words, publically….too many boats to upset

358 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:07:26pm

re: #340 Killgore Trout

They’re doing ok but not great. No signs or major health issues but they still can’t be together. Ever since I gave them the Hartz earmite medicine they attack each other viciously if given the chance. I’m hoping that they can go back to being friends in a few days but they have to stay separated for now.

If you have a glass door (or even just a regular door) where one can be on one side and the other on the other side, they may need to get accustomed to each other again, and that’s how I’ve heard it can be done - keep them separated but near each other (they can bat at each other’s paws under the door)

I have some issues with a cat that adopted us getting along with our other cats; I sure wish I knew more about cat psychology, so I could figure out why they sometimes fight each other, and why they sometimes ignore each other, and what all the body language means.

359 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:07:39pm

re: #354 Gus 802

Hey, since they’re on a boat.

“And remember folks! Towelie sez that towels help keep you dry.”

/

“Am I to understand there has been a Towelie-ban?”
*Sigh* “Shut the hell up, Towelie”
:)

360 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:07:41pm

re: #350 sandbox
With an Earth shattering Kaboom?

361 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:08:10pm

re: #345 Aceofwhat?

Eh, i like Biden’s take. Asking them to make a slight diversion is no big deal. If they refuse, they have something to hide.

Agreed. I was just brain-storming.

362 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:08:23pm

re: #357 albusteve

not gonna happen…BO does not have the conviction to speak in direct, frank words, publically…too many boats to upset

I now that & you know that, but there are others who don’t.

363 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:08:29pm

re: #342 albusteve

The local airport here has AF jets that run patrols or exercises or whatever out of it. Love that sound, it sounds like freedom!

364 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:08:49pm

re: #335 Varek Raith

I don’t think detonating one on the surface would work. I think you’d have to drill deep into the seabed. Probably take as long to do as the relief wells…

Perhaps. But those things leave pretty massive craters when detonated at ground level. Watch “The Atomic Bomb Movie” on Youtube.

365 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:08:59pm

re: #358 reine.de.tout

If you have a glass door (or even just a regular door) where one can be on one side and the other on the other side, they may need to get accustomed to each other again, and that’s how I’ve heard it can be done - keep them separated but near each other (they can bat at each other’s paws under the door)

I have some issues with a cat that adopted us getting along with our other cats; I sure wish I knew more about cat psychology, so I could figure out why they sometimes fight each other, and why they sometimes ignore each other, and what all the body language means.

Cats are pure id. There’s really not much psychology going on.

That’s why we like them.

366 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:09:17pm

re: #361 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. I was just brain-storming.

nothing wrong with that!

367 Stanley Sea  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:09:28pm

Breaking news twitter

Update: Ump admits ‘I just cost that kid a perfect game’ after blown call ends bid by Tigers pitcher Armando Galarraga [Link: bit.ly…]

368 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:09:36pm

So I get home. Find my computer, since I didn’t find an extra special hiding place.
The cat leers at me. He didn’t tell me to fuck off, but I know what he meant.
Then he pulls the Ralph Machio stance from “Karate Kid”.
I try to explain to him I am an internet ninja.
The standoff continues……
Evening Honcos!!!!

369 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:09:38pm

re: #349 researchok

Calif. moves to ban plastic bags at grocery stores

Hell, I hate those plastic bags, always preferred paper anyway.

But for my Wal-Mart grocery trips - I’ve bought a supply of their fabric bags and use them. Much easier to carry them than the plastic ones, plus they hold more.

370 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:09:39pm

re: #360 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

With an Earth shattering Kaboom?

That happens when you sit down, no ?
//

(I kid, because I love!)

371 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:10:00pm

re: #367 Stanley Sea

Breaking news twitter

Update: Ump admits ‘I just cost that kid a perfect game’ after blown call ends bid by Tigers pitcher Armando Galarraga [Link: bit.ly…]

Sad,, it wasn’t even a close “bang bang” play

372 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:10:17pm

re: #356 sattv4u2

Thats sort of what I surmised earlier when it was let known that the Palis were now refusing to take the cargo that was on board. Their spin will be that now that the Israelis have gone through it, Mossad will have booby trapped it or hid surveillance equipment in it

It was enough that they touched it with their dirty haram hands. That’s the bottom line.

373 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:11:16pm

re: #370 sattv4u2

Watched Sofia about an hour ago…

374 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:11:40pm

re: #365 Charles

Cats are pure id. There’s really not much psychology going on.

That’s why we like them.

Pure id. Is that what gives them that delectable flavor?
/ducks and runs

375 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:11:49pm

re: #373 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Watched Sofia about an hour ago…

{sigh}

376 ShaunP  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:11:51pm

re: #360 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

With an Earth shattering Kaboom?

Where DID I put my iludium space modulator anyway…

377 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:11:53pm

re: #324 Alouette

My point was that compromise is difficult when both sides are so ideologically committed to a cause that they are willing to give up their lives.

378 brookly red  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:12:02pm

oh can’t do this much more… good night good folks.

379 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:12:09pm

re: #374 Slumbering Behemoth

Pure id. Is that what gives them that delectable flavor?
/ducks and runs

That ,,and an overnight marinade!

380 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:13:11pm

re: #363 Slumbering Behemoth

The local airport here has AF jets that run patrols or exercises or whatever out of it. Love that sound, it sounds like freedom!

yup…I dig it
we have Kirkland AFB a few miles from here and everything under the sun comes in there….I love the F-16s that are based there…and the Osprey’s

381 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:13:41pm

re: #377 tommysilver

My point was that compromise is difficult when both sides are so ideologically committed to a cause that they are willing to give up their lives.

no, compromise is difficult when one party’s true goal is to wipe the other party out.

382 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:13:42pm

re: #328 freetoken

This whole thing is turning into a textbook example of why flying-by-the-seat-of-your-pants isn’t a good replacement for thoughtful engineering.

Spot on. We should also recognise that they are engineering and constructing things to try that would take six months or more under normal circumstances. The effort is heroic and fascinating, but they are up against pressure that they simply can not overcome at this depth.

There is no tricksy solution to a high pressure reservoir of Gas and Oil flowing freely up a leaky formation 18,000 feet. They need a heavier column pressing down, period. We know if the well was full of mud it will be held back, as it was before BP brilliantly displaced that with water. But the formation or bottom plug may have experienced more damage, so the relief well is no picnic either.

383 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:14:22pm

Cats = Tribbles. :D

384 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:14:30pm

The reaction of most US officials to the flotilla incident has been pretty positive. This, OTOH is not very encouraging if you think realpolitik considerations are what bears more weight in international relations:

‘Israel less of an asset for US’

Strategic ties between Jerusalem and Washington have been slowly changing since the conclusion of the Cold War, Mossad chief Meir Dagan told the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Tuesday.

“Bit by bit, Israel is becoming less of a strategic asset for America,” Dagan said in his meeting with committee.>

The Mossad chief indicated as well that the US views the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as a lower priority after determining that neither side is ready for an agreement.

385 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:15:00pm

Both the Blackhawks and Flyers score within 30 seconds of each other. Game still tied in the 3rd period, 3-3.

386 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:15:18pm

re: #377 tommysilver

My point was that compromise is difficult when both sides are so ideologically committed to a cause that they are willing to give up their lives.

From everything I see, one side’s cause is to wipe Israel off the map and kill all Jews, and the other side’s cause is to survive in the face of such genocidal bigotry.

387 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:15:19pm

re: #352 marjoriemoon

What about this woman, Ewa Jasiewicz (UK). Says her articles appeared in “Red Pepper”. Wasn’t that the name of the newspaper in Uganda that outed the gay folks?

You’re right about that:

[Link: www.gbmnews.com…]

388 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:15:23pm

re: #377 tommysilver

My point was that compromise is difficult when both sides are so ideologically committed to a cause that they are willing to give up their lives.

With all due respect

In all my time looking at this issue, one thing is constant
The Palis never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, regardless of the structure of their leadership

389 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:15:27pm

re: #382 Bagua

I thought it was five thousand feet deep… what’s the 18,000…

390 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:15:53pm

re: #389 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I thought it was five thousand feet deep… what’s the 18,000…

Hell

391 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:16:49pm

re: #389 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I thought it was five thousand feet deep… what’s the 18,000…

It’s 5000 feet to the well head or BOP. The well penetrates well beyond that.

Ask Bagua.

392 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:17:11pm

re: #387 ryannon

You’re right about that:

[Link: www.gbmnews.com…]

I remembered the name from the video Charles posted the other night. It sounded funny to me. Interesting.

393 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:17:12pm

re: #389 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I thought it was five thousand feet deep… what’s the 18,000…

your daily caloric intake!?!?!?

luv ya , man !!

394 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:17:47pm

More on Red Pepper and gays:

[Link: www.pinknews.co.uk…]

395 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:17:51pm

re: #390 albusteve

Or as I like to call it, my winter vacation home.

396 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:17:55pm

re: #384 Nimed

The reaction of most US officials to the flotilla incident has been pretty positive. This, OTOH is not very encouraging if you think realpolitik considerations are what bears more weight in international relations:

‘Israel less of an asset for US’

Strategic ties between Jerusalem and Washington have been slowly changing since the conclusion of the Cold War, Mossad chief Meir Dagan told the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Tuesday.

“Bit by bit, Israel is becoming less of a strategic asset for America,” Dagan said in his meeting with committee.>

The Mossad chief indicated as well that the US views the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as a lower priority after determining that neither side is ready for an agreement.

It may be true that Israel is “less of an asset”, but what kind of ally would we be if we allowed this propaganda by jihadi sympathizers to succeed?

397 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:18:44pm

Taking a short break here, moving a storage locker to another storage locker in the 90 degree heat. Completely filled a 16’ truck in three agonising hours. Turned out every box was full of heavy books. Bagua is too old for this.

A short rest and then go unload the fucking thing. Next time I’ll hire a couple illegals like everyone else and their uncle.

398 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:18:48pm

re: #395 Slumbering Behemoth

Or as I like to call it, my winter vacation home.


Please say HI to my ex girlfriend mom!
/

399 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:19:19pm

Evening lizards! What happened since noon today in Israel? I just logging in.

400 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:19:26pm

I told my boss tonight I might be leaving soon. He thinks Florida will be fine. I told him to look into the future. Then I came up with a $20 dish.

401 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:20:03pm

re: #396 BryanS

It may be true that Israel is “less of an asset”, but what kind of ally would we be if we allowed this propaganda by jihadi sympathizers to succeed?

You mean it hasn’t succeeded?

402 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:20:22pm

re: #397 Bagua

Taking a short break here, moving a storage locker to another storage locker in the 90 degree heat. Completely filled a 16’ truck in three agonising hours. Turned out every box was full of heavy books. Bagua is too old for this.

A short rest and then go unload the fucking thing. Next time I’ll hire a couple illegals like everyone else and their uncle.

man, you are so 19th century
that’s just crazy, all that work

403 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:20:52pm

re: #396 BryanS

It may be true that Israel is “less of an asset”, but what kind of ally would we be if we allowed this propaganda by jihadi sympathizers to succeed?

I’m not even sure why Israel is “less of an asset” now. The article doesn’t explain. I understand that the US pays a price if it supports Israel while most of the rest of the world doesn’t. But that’s not really a new situation, is it?

404 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:21:08pm

re: #390 albusteve

Hell

There’s a commercial first… but…

405 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:21:12pm

re: #400 Cannadian Club Akbar

I told my boss tonight I might be leaving soon. He thinks Florida will be fine. I told him to look into the future. Then I came up with a $20 dish.

Florida will be more OK than Louisiana/Mississippi/some of Alabama.

If you like it there and have work, just stay.

406 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:21:25pm

Geeze, Philly is being brutal tonight.

407 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:21:48pm

re: #393 sattv4u2

your daily caloric intake!?!?!?

Hey! I have a figure to keep up!

408 Political Atheist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:21:55pm

re: #369 reine.de.tout

We in California are moving to non disposable bags. Like it or not. The new papaer bags have no handles!

I take a perverse delight in using Ralph’s bags at Albertsons.

409 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:22:15pm

re: #405 reine.de.tout

Florida will be more OK than Louisiana/Mississippi/some of Alabama.

If you like it there and have work, just stay.

I’d kill myself before I’d live in Fla….
sorta kidding

410 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:22:27pm

re: #404 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There’s a commercial first… but…

Iiin the afterlife…
you could be headed for some serious strife…
now you make the scene all day…
but tomorrow there’ll be hell to pay…

(did i guess right?)

411 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:22:32pm

re: #358 reine.de.tout

If you have a glass door (or even just a regular door) where one can be on one side and the other on the other side, they may need to get accustomed to each other again, and that’s how I’ve heard it can be done - keep them separated but near each other (they can bat at each other’s paws under the door)

I have some issues with a cat that adopted us getting along with our other cats; I sure wish I knew more about cat psychology, so I could figure out why they sometimes fight each other, and why they sometimes ignore each other, and what all the body language means.

When I got my first cat, I picked up a copy of “The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Living with a Cat.”

Taught me quite a bit about their psychology and behavior.

412 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:22:41pm

re: #408 Rightwingconspirator

We in California are moving to non disposable bags. Like it or not. The new papaer bags have no handles!

I take a perverse delight in using Ralph’s bags at Albertsons.

Or as I like to call it

A matched set of luggage!

413 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:23:04pm

re: #402 albusteve

man, you are so 19th century
that’s just crazy, all that work

Damn straight.

You should be like Steve: bunk out under a rock and make friends with the rattlers. Minimalism is where it’s at.

414 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:23:14pm

re: #408 Rightwingconspirator

We in California are moving to non disposable bags. Like it or not. The new papaer bags have no handles!

I take a perverse delight in using Ralph’s bags at Albertsons.

hehehe!
And I use my wal-mart bags on the rare occasions I stop at the very expensive Albertson’s!
LOL.

415 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:23:17pm

re: #358 reine.de.tout

If you have a glass door (or even just a regular door) where one can be on one side and the other on the other side, they may need to get accustomed to each other again, and that’s how I’ve heard it can be done - keep them separated but near each other (they can bat at each other’s paws under the door)

I have some issues with a cat that adopted us getting along with our other cats; I sure wish I knew more about cat psychology, so I could figure out why they sometimes fight each other, and why they sometimes ignore each other, and what all the body language means.

I set up a baby gate type thing with old mesh shelving and c-clamps so the can see each other and interact if they want to. Zoe escaped briefly last night and immediately went on the attack, it’s going to take a while.

416 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:23:23pm

re: #229 ryannon

I’m going out for lunch tomorrow. Cheese naan, dal and chicken tandoori!

I’m not :(

Damn that sounds good.

417 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:23:23pm

re: #386 Slumbering Behemoth

Emphasis on “ideological”. Wiping all Jews off the map is not the ideological cause of the Palestinians, it is regaining the “status quo” that existed before 1948. Wiping all Jews off the map would be a convenient way to accomplish that. On the flip side, simply surviving is not the ideological cause of the Israelis, it is regaining the “status quo” that existed before the Diaspora. Quite hard to reconcile these ideologies.

418 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:23:26pm

re: #405 reine.de.tout

Florida will be more OK than Louisiana/Mississippi/some of Alabama.

If you like it there and have work, just stay.

I don’t think we are getting the truth to this. I see all the States you mentioned as “fucked”.

419 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:23:50pm

re: #401 ryannon

You mean it hasn’t succeeded?

To an extent. But the crazies were going to glom onto this incident anyway. Sane people can review the facts and get over the hype.

420 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:24:10pm

re: #408 Rightwingconspirator

We in California are moving to non disposable bags. Like it or not. The new papaer bags have no handles!

I take a perverse delight in using Ralph’s bags at Albertsons.

my bags are made from Afghani hash brick, hemp covering…inked logos!

421 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:24:20pm

re: #415 Killgore Trout

I set up a baby gate type thing with old mesh shelving and c-clamps so the can see each other and interact if they want to. Zoe escaped briefly last night and immediately went on the attack, it’s going to take a while.

OK, you’re doing what you should be doing then.
Sorry to hear they aren’t getting along, hope it doesn’t last long.

422 Political Atheist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:24:41pm

re: #412 sattv4u2

The formerly popular high consumption classic was paper in the plastic. We called it Encino wrap. Heh. (Encino is the “rich” area of the valley)

423 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:24:55pm

re: #417 tommysilver

Emphasis on “ideological”. Wiping all Jews off the map is not the ideological cause of the Palestinians, it is regaining the “status quo” that existed before 1948. Wiping all Jews off the map would be a convenient way to accomplish that. On the flip side, simply surviving is not the ideological cause of the Israelis, it is regaining the “status quo” that existed before the Diaspora. Quite hard to reconcile these ideologies.

Haven’t read the Hamas charter lately, have you.

Your ignorance…it stings the nostrils. It’s a formidable scent…

424 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:24:56pm

re: #416 JasonA

I’m not :(

Damn that sounds good.

It’s so good that I do it every week.

425 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:25:12pm

re: #410 Aceofwhat?

Iiin the afterlife…
you could be headed for some serious strife…
now you make the scene all day…
but tomorrow there’ll be hell to pay…

(did i guess right?)

Now the D and the A and the M
and the N and the A
And the T and the I-O-N
Lose your face, lose your name
Then get fitted for a suit of flame

426 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:25:27pm

re: #417 tommysilver

Emphasis on “ideological”. Wiping all Jews off the map is not the ideological cause of the Palestinians, it is regaining the “status quo” that existed before 1948. Wiping all Jews off the map would be a convenient way to accomplish that. On the flip side, simply surviving is not the ideological cause of the Israelis, it is regaining the “status quo” that existed before the Diaspora. Quite hard to reconcile these ideologies.

You have no fucking clue what the ideological cause of Zionism is.

427 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:25:35pm

re: #397 Bagua

Taking a short break here, moving a storage locker to another storage locker in the 90 degree heat. Completely filled a 16’ truck in three agonising hours. Turned out every box was full of heavy books. Bagua is too old for this.

A short rest and then go unload the fucking thing. Next time I’ll hire a couple illegals like everyone else and their uncle.

I hear ya, friend. In my younger days I could unload a container full of gas BBQ grills.

428 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:25:49pm

re: #413 ryannon

Damn straight.

You should be like Steve: bunk out under a rock and make friends with the rattlers. Minimalism is where it’s at.

embrace the emptiness bro…
stuff sucks

429 Political Atheist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:26:11pm

re: #420 albusteve

Good luck around the trained K-9’s. Ouch.

430 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:26:11pm

re: #403 Nimed

I’m not even sure why Israel is “less of an asset” now. The article doesn’t explain. I understand that the US pays a price if it supports Israel while most of the rest of the world doesn’t. But that’s not really a new situation, is it?

As a free democracy, Israel is more asset than liability. This recent incident hasn’t changed that.

431 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:26:49pm

re: #389 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I thought it was five thousand feet deep… what’s the 18,000…

Five thousand feet to the sea-bed from the surface, then the well is 18,000 feet below that to reach the pay zone. The first few hundred feet is muck, but it, and the 5,000 feet on water add to the weight of about 17,000 feet of rock.

Thus the oil in the well is under tremendous pressure, with the gas mostly dissolved.

As the hot oil and gas comes up the well, the gas starts to come out of solution and expands greatly, thus the added pressure and “kicks” of up to 16,000 psi. Think of a two mile long straw in a sealed Pepsi bottle, then multiply that many times over.

Look at that oil and gas shooting out of the leak. It is a fraction of the full well pressure - 400 - 500psi - yet is shoots through the 2,200 psi water like a jet of steam. Let’s hope we never see the 8,000 psi of the full well shooting out should the wellhead or BOP blow up.

432 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:27:04pm

re: #428 albusteve

And rattlers don’t bogart.
/those damn scorpions though… don’t leave your stash out when they’re around

433 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:27:08pm

re: #417 tommysilver

Where do your ‘facts’ come from?

434 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:27:10pm

re: #426 Alouette

You have no fucking clue what the ideological cause of Zionism is.

None whatsoever. It’s like listening to someone who thinks that all Christians need to see some weird thing go down in Israel so that we can magically open the seventh seal, or whatever.

(Except that a few Christians actually do believe that, whereas i’ve never heard a Jew say what he said;)

435 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:27:29pm

re: #429 Rightwingconspirator

Good luck around the trained K-9’s. Ouch.

I have treats for those guys….we’re all on the same page

436 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:27:36pm

re: #387 ryannon

You’re right about that:

[Link: www.gbmnews.com…]

Btw, there are Jews in Uganda. The Abayudaya. Neat history these people.

Also, here’s the Abayudaya dance festival sponsored by Kulanu (means “All of Us). African hora!

Kulanu is very cool. Jews in odd places :)

437 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:27:43pm

re: #418 Cannadian Club Akbar

I don’t think we are getting the truth to this. I see all the States you mentioned as “fucked”.

Yes, I agree.

And even more so if that 6-month moratorium stands as it will greatly add to the unemployment in Louisiana and Mississippi, for no good reason. If it does, I’m thinking it should all be added to BP’s tab. But it won’t be.

What happened and why it happened is known.
There is no reason to stop operations.

438 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:28:28pm

re: #431 Bagua

Thanks, Bags.

439 albusteve  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:28:50pm

re: #432 Slumbering Behemoth

And rattlers don’t bogart.
/those damn scorpions though… don’t leave your stash out when they’re around

not to worry…I’m an Advanced Desert Guy

440 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:29:29pm

re: #431 Bagua

Five thousand feet to the sea-bed from the surface, then the well is 18,000 feet below that to reach the pay zone. The first few hundred feet is muck, but it, and the 5,000 feet on water add to the weight of about 17,000 feet of rock.

Thus the oil in the well is under tremendous pressure, with the gas mostly dissolved.

As the hot oil and gas comes up the well, the gas starts to come out of solution and expands greatly, thus the added pressure and “kicks” of up to 16,000 psi. Think of a two mile long straw in a sealed Pepsi bottle, then multiply that many times over.

Look at that oil and gas shooting out of the leak. It is a fraction of the full well pressure - 400 - 500psi - yet is shoots through the 2,200 psi water like a jet of steam. Let’s hope we never see the 8,000 psi of the full well shooting out should the wellhead or BOP blow up.

Which explains why these things blowout, not trickle out.

441 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:30:14pm

re: #281 Alouette

My daughter graduated #1 in her class at Downstate Medical Center School of Nursing!

Mazel Tov! I have the greatest respect for nurses. It is a hard job that requires infinite compassion, patience and the ability to be a drill instructor.

442 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:30:18pm

I am so fucking sad right now.

443 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:30:24pm

re: #377 tommysilver

My point was that compromise is difficult when both sides are so ideologically committed to a cause that they are willing to give up their lives.

They have Gaza. Let them live in Gaza. They can’t get along with Fatah, that’s their problem. Jerusalem will always be the capital of the Jewish state and it’s been carved up too much already.

444 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:30:40pm

re: #417 tommysilver

Wiping all Jews off the map is not the ideological cause of the Palestinians,

You are correct’

There’s nothing “ideological” about it

It’s their stated AIM!

445 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:31:25pm

re: #442 Cannadian Club Akbar

I am so fucking sad right now.

Oh, stop it, Eeyore.

446 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:32:11pm

re: #443 marjoriemoon

They have Gaza. Let them live in Gaza. They can’t get along with Fatah, that’s their problem. Jerusalem will always be the capital of the Jewish state and it’s been carved up too much already.

Quite Concur.

447 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:33:02pm

re: #402 albusteve

man, you are so 19th century
that’s just crazy, all that work

It looked manageable and the truck came with a hand truck. Only it wasn’t a normal one, it was the kind that you move refrigerators with, itself very heavy, with the wrong sort of blade. What was I thinking?

448 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:34:10pm

re: #298 ryannon

Ireland asks Israel for safe passage of another ship with aid for Gaza
 From Jill Dougherty, CNN Foreign Affairs Correspondent
June 3, 2010 — Updated 0105 GMT (0905 HKT)

Irish government asks Israel not to interfere with humanitarian aid for Gaza
Israeli government official offers same deal rejected by a flotilla attacked Monday by Israeli commandos

(CNN) — The Irish government is asking that Israel not interfere with an Irish-owned ship en route to Gaza to deliver humanitarian cargo.
But an Israeli government official who spoke on background because of the diplomatic sensitivity of the issue told CNN “the Israeli government is offering to receive the ship’s cargo, as it has offered other vessels, if it docks at [Israel’s] Ashdod port. The Israeli government will unload the cargo, screen it, and deliver it to Gaza.”
That was the same deal rejected by a flotilla of six ships before Israeli commandos attacked one of them Monday, killing nine of the activists who were aboard.
The Irish Foreign Ministry is requesting that Israel allow the MV Rachel Corrie, which was not part of Monday’s flotilla, passage to deliver its cargo.
The Irish Ministry of Foreign Affairs said the vessel, owned by the Irish Free Gaza Movement, left Dundalk, Ireland, in mid-May carrying a number of Irish citizens. It may approach Gaza in the next day or two, the ministry said.
Ireland’s minister of foreign affairs, Micheal Martin, told the lower house of the Irish Parliament, the Dail, that he had asked the Israeli ambassador to convey to his government his request that, “following the tragedy which has occurred, the Rachel Corrie be allowed to continue unimpeded, and to deliver its cargo to Gaza.”
“We will be watching this situation very closely — as indeed will the world — and it is imperative that Israel avoid any action which leads to further bloodshed,” the foreign minister said.
The Israeli government has said it must enforce the blockade to ensure that weapons are not smuggled into Gaza.

Irish Free Gaza website (instructive):

[Link: www.freegaza.org…]

Sink it now or they will not stop. There will be a month of protest no matter what. Tell them very clearly that they can accept to into an Israeli port for inspection or be sank if they cross a certain line. Give them many warnings along the way, but do not hesitate. If they do not do something like this, these propaganda stunts will not stop.

449 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:34:22pm

re: #413 ryannon

Damn straight.

You should be like Steve: bunk out under a rock and make friends with the rattlers. Minimalism is where it’s at.

I do that on the weekends.

450 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:35:03pm

re: #415 Killgore Trout

I set up a baby gate type thing with old mesh shelving and c-clamps so the can see each other and interact if they want to. Zoe escaped briefly last night and immediately went on the attack, it’s going to take a while.

hehe Don’t mean to laugh, but the cat in my avatar is Zoe. Is yours a tabby?

I’ve never had a serious problem with pet cats fighting. I did try to introduce a new tom once and that was awful. No hissing, no growling, no back in the air. He simply went straight for my alpha male, grabbed him by the neck and took him down. I freaked and poured the dog’s water dish on top of him. Split them immediately. Was lovely for the living room, but what can ya do.

I think you’re doing the right thing with the gate. They’ll work it out within a few days, I suspect.

451 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:36:03pm

re: #448 LudwigVanQuixote

Ireland has some fucking nerve. Ireland: where support for the IRA has always been high.

I disagree with sinking the ship, for reasons I’ve already stated.

But Ireland is the last fucking place on earth who should be getting involved in a conflict involving terrorism. Jesus.

452 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:36:32pm

re: #417 tommysilver

Psycho. Take your hate speech elsewhere.

453 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:36:42pm

re: #450 marjoriemoon

Heh. And our teacup Chihuahua’s name is Zoe. She barks at the neighborhood cats as if they wouldn’t slay her in three seconds if we let her off the leash…

454 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:37:40pm

re: #439 albusteve

not to worry…I’m an Advanced Desert Guy

I love the beauty of desert wild life and landscapes, but I just can’t take the heat. I am a pussy when it comes to high temps.

455 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:38:41pm

re: #448 LudwigVanQuixote

They’ve got an incredible propaganda machine all oiled up and ready to go. Just take a look at the names and professions on their website.

456 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:38:51pm

re: #451 Obdicut

Ireland has some fucking nerve. Ireland: where support for the IRA has always been high.

I disagree with sinking the ship, for reasons I’ve already stated.

But Ireland is the last fucking place on earth who should be getting involved in a conflict involving terrorism. Jesus.

Especially against people who are fighting to maintain control of their own homeland. Next time the Irish bitch about Britain taking their land, I suppose I shall remind them that they should support Israel.

457 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:39:24pm

re: #453 Aceofwhat?

Heh. And our teacup Chihuahua’s name is Zoe. She barks at the neighborhood cats as if they wouldn’t slay her in three seconds if we let her off the leash…

no way!

458 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:39:48pm

re: #437 reine.de.tout

Yes, I agree.

And even more so if that 6-month moratorium stands as it will greatly add to the unemployment in Louisiana and Mississippi, for no good reason. If it does, I’m thinking it should all be added to BP’s tab. But it won’t be.

What happened and why it happened is known.
There is no reason to stop operations.

It will also devastate Texas. The knock-on effect will damage the nation untold billions more. It won’t only be six months. Once those rigs and equipment leave the Gulf they are not coming back.

459 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:41:39pm

re: #451 Obdicut

Ireland has some fucking nerve. Ireland: where support for the IRA has always been high.

I disagree with sinking the ship, for reasons I’ve already stated.

But Ireland is the last fucking place on earth who should be getting involved in a conflict involving terrorism. Jesus.

If memory serves, the IRA used to be in tight with the PLO. That might be part of this.

460 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:42:12pm

re: #451 Obdicut

Ireland has some fucking nerve. Ireland: where support for the IRA has always been high.

I disagree with sinking the ship, for reasons I’ve already stated.

But Ireland is the last fucking place on earth who should be getting involved in a conflict involving terrorism. Jesus.

I think that’s probably one of their ideological positions: Israel = British “occupation” of Northern Ireland.

461 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:42:35pm

re: #455 ryannon

They’ve got an incredible propaganda machine all oiled up and ready to go. Just take a look at the names and professions on their website.

So they would make very good fish food if they run the flotilla. This is not a game and it is not just about PR. They are actively trying to support a genocidal organization against the Jewish people. They are not being forced to ride these boats. There are consequences for defying military in a war zone. If this were the US navy, no one would try such a stunt. Sink the bastards, if they ignore warnings and demands, let them drown and then this all stops.

It really does not matter what the PR fall out is. Israel will never ever get a fair shake. This is an act of war. So be it. There are consequences and the left needs to earn that the consequences are proportional to the genocide they would enable. Fuck them.

While we are at it, Israel can announce that since the commandos were so mistreated last time, they will not play nice. There is a perfect answer PR wise.

462 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:42:39pm

re: #457 marjoriemoon

no way!

Yep. I lost the Naming Wars…i wanted to name her something more sarcastic, like Delores.

463 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:43:08pm

Paul McCartney honored at the White House tonight:[Link: news.yahoo.com…]

464 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:43:48pm

re: #458 Bagua

It will also devastate Texas. The knock-on effect will damage the nation untold billions more. It won’t only be six months. Once those rigs and equipment leave the Gulf they are not coming back.

Bagua - they’re already on the way out.

465 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:44:36pm

re: #461 LudwigVanQuixote

So they would make very good fish food if they run the flotilla. This is not a game and it is not just about PR. They are actively trying to support a genocidal organization against the Jewish people. They are not being forced to ride these boats. There are consequences for defying military in a war zone. If this were the US navy, no one would try such a stunt. Sink the bastards, if they ignore warnings and demands, let them drown and then this all stops.

It really does not matter what the PR fall out is. Israel will never ever get a fair shake. This is an act of war. So be it. There are consequences and the left needs to earn that the consequences are proportional to the genocide they would enable. Fuck them.

While we are at it, Israel can announce that since the commandos were so mistreated last time, they will not play nice. There is a perfect answer PR wise.

I just don’t see that happening. But it’s going to be interesting to see what does.

466 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:47:10pm

Also the name of the ship he Rachel Corrie…

OK… Fine

I get that a certain breakfast food epithet is not cool. Charles is correct, it is crass and makes someone who detests what she stood for look childish.

However, that misguided and deluded person faced the consequences for a stupid action that unfortunately cost her her life. She did what she did in support of those who would not think twice about murdering Jews or Jewish women and children.

She does not get any honor in my book.

I think the irony of sinking a ship with that name after they take the high seas equivalent action is very just and delicious.

This is not a game.

467 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:47:57pm

re: #448 LudwigVanQuixote

Sink it now or they will not stop. There will be a month of protest no matter what. Tell them very clearly that they can accept to into an Israeli port for inspection or be sank if they cross a certain line. Give them many warnings along the way, but do not hesitate. If they do not do something like this, these propaganda stunts will not stop.

The goal is to force Israel into impossible situations. Make them fight hand-to-hand with every Jew hater out there. And there are many more of them then there are Jews. It is a war of attrition. If they can kill one Jew while losing 50 of their own, they will celebrate and keep coming.

They want Israel to lose the will to fight and struggle, lose the will to send their sons into danger. They have proven that they can have half of Israel cowering in shelters while they fire thousands of rockets, and the world will condemn Israel. Now they have proven they violate the defense zone, and beat Israeli troops with iron bars, and the world condemns Israel.

Fuck the world, Israel do what you have to do to achieve security.

468 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:48:16pm

re: #426 Alouette
re: #423 Aceofwhat?

Nice try but both Zionism and Hamas are political movements and not ideologies. Jewish West Bank settlers do not use Zionism to justify their right to land outside the 1949 borders and the Hamas charter does not call for the killing of Jews (it calls for their subjugation under Islamic rule). Politics can change, in fact by necessity politics involves compromise (there is no politics in a dictatorship other than the politics of avoiding execution). By contrast, ideologies generally do not change by compromise, if they change it is out of necessity or simply the dying off of older generations who hold them.

469 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:49:24pm

At least Joe Biden is in their corner. And more power to him.

Continued in the next thread….

470 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:49:42pm

re: #466 LudwigVanQuixote

No, it’s not. Neither are the politics of the matter. There are serious consequences to sinking a ship carrying “non-combatants.”

471 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:50:02pm

re: #468 tommysilver

tl;dr

472 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:52:21pm

re: #464 reine.de.tout

Bagua - they’re already on the way out.

Yes, I know. Drilling companies are losing tens of millions per day and the men and materials are already being deployed. The economic devastation will be many times the impact on fishing, even if that lasts a year or more. It is a triple-wammy for the gulf states, and the United States.

It will be satisfying to devastate BP, but in a year or two the bill will have to be paid.

473 Political Atheist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:52:07pm

re: #440 reine.de.tout

Which explains why these things blowout, not trickle out.

Why not a new BOP? That’s what I do not get.

Oh sent ya an email just a moment ago..

474 AbuNafha2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:22:15pm

haven’t been here in a while, and i heard and read many critical posts, on other blogs, on LGF lately. that made me sad.

i just want to say this: Thank you Charles Johnson, for being an honest and brave friend of Israel and Jewish people.
Although, we probably differ on a number of issues regarding inner American politics, and the conduct of american left regarding Israel, your honesty is hartworming.

Thank you, again.

475 georgetownpress  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:57:44pm

According to the CIA World Factbook, basic population health indicators (life expectancy, infant morality, etc) in Gaza have actually improved since the beginning of the “siege” in 2006. This is the first effective “siege” in human history which has increased the overall population health of the besieged population.

Various UN Agencies and NGOs that have reported that there is a “humanitarian crisis” in Gaza. However, when you actually read the reports, the claims of “humanitarian crisis” exist because, for example, something like 80% of the population is dependent on food aid, i.e. it is not they they do not have ample food, but that they don’t grow or buy the food themselves, but are instead given food by the UN. According to that logic, my kids are facing a “humanitarian crisis” because they don’t have jobs and instead have to rely on me to feed them. I guess I had better get them sowing wallets so that the UN OCHA and Human Rights Watch doesn’t condemn me for holding my children in a precarious humanitarian situation.

476 Bob Levin  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:28:07am

re: #294 tommysilver

I’m not sure you fully grasp the concept of Jewish Holy Land. It is Jewish Holy Land, parts of it. That doesn’t mean that only Jews can live there. It doesn’t mean that a mosaic of cultures can’t live side by side. And it’s not so simple as saying that building new neighborhoods, at least that’s what they would be called in the US, is an ultra-orthodox fetish. Israel has a very high population density. The real issue is that there are many places in the Arab world, including every inch of land east of the Jordan River, where Jews are most unwelcome, as in not letting our feet touch the sand.

477 Bob Levin  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:40:36am

re: #417 tommysilver

I guess it would be hard to reconcile those two points of view. Unfortunately, you had to create one point of view out of thin air. Jews don’t even know what the status quo was before the Diaspora. Heck, in Talmudic times half of the arguments are about what went on before exile, and that was the short exile.

478 Bob Levin  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:46:43am

re: #448 LudwigVanQuixote

No, the best thing is for Israel to invent some very cool technology for this very problem—that other countries face in different ways. Then you have a new industry, you are showing creativity, you are promoting peaceful technology to be used in situations where there used to be war—that’swhat will upset them the most.

479 Bob Levin  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:57:11am

re: #468 tommysilver

Your convenient remembering and forgetting of history is pretty remarkable. No doubt a coincidence. You might want to look at how the borders of other countries came into existence. One country to look at might be the US. Or the UK. Or Russia, Poland, Lithuania, Austria, much of Asia. Unfortunately, conflict is involved. The interesting about Israel is that war has always been declared on it, Israel didn’t declare any wars. And yet Israel was victorious. And that is how the boundaries changed from 1949. You know 1949. That was the armistice the UN negotiated after the surrounding Arab countries declared war on Israel in 1948.

480 bj  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 3:08:58am

re: #468 tommysilver

re: #423 Aceofwhat?

Nice try but both Zionism and Hamas are political movements and not ideologies. Jewish West Bank settlers do not use Zionism to justify their right to land outside the 1949 borders and the Hamas charter does not call for the killing of Jews (it calls for their subjugation under Islamic rule). Politics can change, in fact by necessity politics involves compromise (there is no politics in a dictatorship other than the politics of avoiding execution). By contrast, ideologies generally do not change by compromise, if they change it is out of necessity or simply the dying off of older generations who hold them.

Zionism is a basic tenet of Judaism. hamas is a terrorist group.

481 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 7:54:33am

re: #480 bj

Zionism is a basic tenet of Judaism. hamas is a terrorist group.

Zionism is not a tenant of Judaism. The original Zionists were secular.

482 AbuNafha2  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 7:59:12am

re: #481 Obdicut

Zionism is not a tenant of Judaism. The original Zionists were secular.

right…

“next year in jerusalem”, is an ancient atheist saying.
/facepalm/

483 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:03:25am

re: #482 AbuNafha2

right…

“next year in jerusalem”, is an ancient atheist saying.
/facepalm/

Oh good grief. Theodore Hertzel’s push for Zionism was not religious, but a response to the rampant anti-semetism he observed, and an acknowledgement that the Jews needed their own country to be safe.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

484 wiffersnapper  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:44:44am

re: #483 Obdicut

yup!

485 AbuNafha2  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 8:55:54am

re: #483 Obdicut

theodor herzl simply translated 2000 years of jewish desire for its homeland in a political lingo of the 19th century.
jewish quest for and RIGHT to self-determination is not a political ideology, it is being presented as such by those who seek to delegitimatize it.
this is the basis of false claim antizionism is not antisemitism. by “proving” zionism to be a mere political ideology, “antizionism” becomes acceptable as an opinion. it is ok to be against liberalism or conservatism, because those are political options. making zionism into political ideology, antizionism becomes acceptible as well.

/excuse my english, not a native speaker, i hope you get what i am trying to say/

486 AbuNafha2  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 9:01:29am

besides if you read the link you posted:
In Zemun (Zemlin), Grandfather Simon Loeb Herzl “had his hands on” one of the first copies of Judah Alkalai’s 1857 work prescribing the “return of the Jews to the Holy Land and renewed glory of Jerusalem.” Contemporary scholars conclude that Herzl’s own implementation of modern Zionism was undoubtedly influenced by that relationship.[15] Herzl’s grandparents’ graves in Semlin can still be visited.[16] Alkalai himself, was witness to the rebirth of Serbia from Ottoman rule in the early and mid 19th century, and was inspired by the Serbian uprising and subsequent re-creation of Serbia.

Rabbi Judah Alkalai:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

487 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 9:42:52am

re: #485 AbuNafha2

theodor herzl simply translated 2000 years of jewish desire for its homeland in a political lingo of the 19th century.

Wow. Way to crap on the memory of a great, if complicated man.

Zionism is a political ideology. A perfectly good, defensible one. The Israel envisioned by Hertzel was not one of public faith, was not a religious state. Those first Zionists settlers included religious types, but it was a secular state that they wanted, a place for Jews, religious or secular, to be safe.

Do not diminish the importance and the accomplishments of secular Jews. It creates unnecessary divisions amongst us.

488 AbuNafha2  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 10:20:36am

re: #487 Obdicut

we’re on the same side. ;)
/sorry for the facepalm earlier - that was out of place. i am after 72 hours of fighting islamo-leftists alliance on some croatian websites/

zionism can not be a political ideology if it belongs only to certain people (there is no french conservatism or english liberalism) - therefore it’s a national movement, just like there were national movements starting within austro-hungary at the time when herzl wrote the book.
also, if you read my links - herzl himself drew inspiration from the works of an rabbi. i agree with what you write, but that is beside the point that jewish yearning for homeland precedes herzl for many centuries.
before the haskala, jews in europe were religious. they started being orthodox or neolog /reform, only after the haskala. before that the term orthodoxy didn’t exist within jewish community. they were jews and all jews were religious.
herzel helped define jews as a nation, just like the rest of european nations at the time, where that notion included both religious and secular jews - who were a novelty in jewish world. a secular jew before haskala would simply assimilate and become a member of a nation of his residence.

as i said - we are on the same side, there is no difference between a religious and a secular jew when it comes to nationhood. the early zionists as you call them were simply products of many centuries of diaspora and the developments around them.

489 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 10:45:12am

re: #488 AbuNafha2

No problem, apology accepted.

To me, a ‘national movement’ is a political ideology. I don’t get the point of that hair-splitting, but I think maybe we can chalk it up to translation differences. Anti-Zionism— the belief that Jews have no right to found and keep the state of Israel— is a perfectly valid belief if it comes from, say, an anarchist who rejects all states. It is not valid to single out Israel amongst states and say that only Israel has no right to exist, especially when those doing it are occupants of a country born in blood and tears, as all European nations are.

I also do not think that you can say that all Jews were religious, or at least, saying that all Jews were religious is similar to saying that all Catholics are religious. The actual extent of someone’s religiosity is private, not public; you can’t look into the heart of anyone. Unless, of course, you define religion as a set of practices and not actual beliefs and ideas.

But yeah, I think as far as Israel goes, we think the same.


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