Joe Biden Defends Israel

Middle East • Views: 2,972

The #2 man in the Obama administration issued a pretty solid defense of Israel today, as the rest of the world continued freaking out: Biden solidifies defense of Israel: ‘What’s the big deal here?’

“I think Israel has an absolute right to deal with its security interest. I put all this back on two things: one, Hamas, and, two, Israel’s need to be more generous relative to the Palestinian people who are in trouble in Gaza,” Biden said, according to a transcript of the interview, in which he went on to discuss Hamas’s control of Gaza:

“[The Israelis have] said, ‘Here you go. You’re in the Mediterranean. This ship — if you divert slightly north you can unload it and we’ll get the stuff into Gaza.’ So what’s the big deal here? What’s the big deal of insisting it go straight to Gaza? Well, it’s legitimate for Israel to say, ‘I don’t know what’s on that ship. These guys are dropping eight�— 3,000 rockets on my people,’” Biden said.

Biden continued:

Now, the one thing we have to do is not forget the plight of these Palestinians there, not Hamas, the�— they’re in bad shape. So we have put as much pressure and as much cajoling on Israel as we can to allow them to get building materials in, glass —

ROSE:�That’s what they’re trying to bring in, building materials.

BIDEN:�Yes, we know that, but they could have easily brought it in here and we’d get it through.�

Jump to bottom

764 comments
1 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:23:37pm

But.. but... my narrative... my sweet, sekrit muslim narritive...
/Bronze Gator off

2 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:23:46pm

Biden did and said the right thing here.

There, I said it. /

3 Kragar  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:23:48pm

But how will the poor Gazans survive without those necessary supplies that Hamas refuses to accept?

4 Spricio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:24:39pm

suprising yet refreshing

5 SteveC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:26:48pm

Biden made perfect sense and defended Israel?

Biden?

Joe "Big F'n deal!" Biden?!?!

What the hell is going on here?!?!

6 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:26:55pm

Sorry, I'll have to repost this until I get an answer.

Cato, are you still around?

Just to say I'll take you up on the Palin thing -- I say she will not win the GOP nomination, you say she will.

I propose the following bet: if you win, you get to choose an humiliating avatar for me for the period of 2 months. If I win, you use the avatar of my choice for a week.

That's how confident I am. I hope you still maintain the same confidence in your eerily prescient predictions regarding Presidential nominees.

7 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:28:04pm

re: #6 Nimed

Sorry, I'll have to repost this until I get an answer.

Cato, are you still around?

Just to say I'll take you up on the Palin thing -- I say she will not win the GOP nomination, you say she will.

I propose the following bet: if you win, you get to choose an humiliating avatar for me for the period of 2 months. If I win, you use the avatar of my choice for a week.

That's how confident I am. I hope you still maintain the same confidence in your eerily prescient predictions regarding Presidential nominees.


That's a good bet.

8 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:29:00pm

Glass for greenhouses?

9 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:29:01pm
“[The Israelis have] said, ‘Here you go. You’re in the Mediterranean. This ship — if you divert slightly north you can unload it and we’ll get the stuff into Gaza.’ So what’s the big deal here? What’s the big deal of insisting it go straight to Gaza?

It's the Hyoo-mee-lee-AYY-shun!

10 Spricio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:29:06pm

re: #6 Nimed

Sorry, I'll have to repost this until I get an answer.

Cato, are you still around?

Just to say I'll take you up on the Palin thing -- I say she will not win the GOP nomination, you say she will.

I propose the following bet: if you win, you get to choose an humiliating avatar for me for the period of 2 months. If I win, you use the avatar of my choice for a week.

That's how confident I am. I hope you still maintain the same confidence in your eerily prescient predictions regarding Presidential nominees.

I'm with you on that

11 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:29:24pm

Good for Biden, since this is a big fucking deal. Joe B still leaves his mark, however:

These guys are dropping eight — 3,000 rockets on my people

12 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:29:37pm

One thing I wish for tonight - just one - is that the word "plight" be stricken from the vocabulary.

No one talks about Palestinians without mentioning that they're in a "plight". Is there a single other situation in the world where that word is even used?

Unless "plight" is redefined to mean "a nasty situation mostly of one's own making", I suggest it be retired in favor of the phrase "a nasty situation mostly of one's own making".

13 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:29:44pm

re: #2 Dark_Falcon

I really did favorite that for future viewing. :D

14 Spricio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:30:05pm

re: #11 Nimed

haha i saw that too, I thought, biden, can you ever say anything right?

15 alexknyc  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:30:10pm

I'm fairly certain Biden has always been a strong supporter of Israel but it's always nice to have an official voice saying what needs to be said.

16 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:30:17pm

Good for Joe. He should call Barney Frank and educate him a little...


U.S. Rep. Barney Frank had harsh words yesterday for the Israeli Navy after a bloody raid on a pro-Palestinian flotilla outside of Gaza, describing nine activists killed in the conflict as “innocent” and calling for an independent inquiry into the showdown.

Frank, in a wide-ranging interview with the Herald, went on to say that “as a Jew,” Israeli treatment of Arabs around some of the West Bank settlements “makes me ashamed that there would be Jews that would engage in that kind of victimization of a minority.”

17 SteveC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:30:20pm

re: #9 Alouette

It's the Hyoo-mee-lee-AYY-shun!

Good diction! Not much of an argument, but very good diction!

//

18 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:30:36pm

re: #6 Nimed

Sorry, I'll have to repost this until I get an answer.

Cato, are you still around?

Just to say I'll take you up on the Palin thing -- I say she will not win the GOP nomination, you say she will.

I propose the following bet: if you win, you get to choose an humiliating avatar for me for the period of 2 months. If I win, you use the avatar of my choice for a week.

That's how confident I am. I hope you still maintain the same confidence in your eerily prescient predictions regarding Presidential nominees.

Done. In front of witnesses.

19 tokyobk  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:31:01pm

I think this is amazingly sane. I regret the loss of life. Reminds me most of the MOVE incident in Philadelphia under Wilson Goode. The cops had the right to remove the squatters but they ended up killing people through poor planning.

I confess our president is a mystery to me. He seems oddly detached from things. I am actually worried about him. I wish it was him and not Biden saying these things.

20 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:31:10pm

re: #14 Spricio

8, 9, 10, "skip ahead a little brother" — 3,000.

21 SteveC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:31:26pm

re: #11 Nimed

Good for Biden, since this is a big fucking deal. Joe B still leaves his mark, however:

These guys are dropping eight — 3,000 rockets on my people

Well, it somewhere between eight rockets and 3000 rockets, and you can bet that every one of them is a big F'n deal!

22 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:31:41pm

re: #18 Cato the Elder

And that's two posts made favorite in this thread.

23 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:31:58pm

re: #19 tokyobk

I confess our president is a mystery to me. He seems oddly detached from things. I am actually worried about him. I wish it was him and not Biden saying these things.

Really? It matters to you?

come on...

24 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:32:13pm

re: #18 Cato the Elder

Done. In front of witnesses.

We're on, then. I'll start choosing your future avatar right away.

/hubris

25 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:32:16pm

re: #19 tokyobk

He IS oddly detached, he comes from academia.

26 Spricio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:32:26pm

re: #20 Ojoe

haha seriously

27 ShaunP  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:32:58pm

re: #16 NJDhockeyfan

Good for Joe. He should call Barney Frank and educate him a little...

Thankfully, he's backed away from that statement:

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]
"The harsh words I spoke were specifically aimed at some non-governmental settlers in the West Bank who I believe have treated Arabs very badly, and, it should be noted, in contradiction to official Israeli government policy," writes Frank. "But I had nothing critical to say about the Israeli Navy. Indeed, I noted that I was not familiar with the specifics of the incident, and I talked about the U.S. experience in Afghanistan as an example of the difficult problems that occur when military organizations are required to use force."

28 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:33:35pm

re: #13 JasonA

I really did favorite that for future viewing. :D

Thanks. I thought that might be funny. Glad you liked it.

29 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:33:55pm

re: #26 Spricio

5 is right out.

30 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:34:22pm

re: #27 ShaunP

Glad to see that.

31 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:34:26pm

re: #27 ShaunP

Thankfully, he's backed away from that statement:

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]
"The harsh words I spoke were specifically aimed at some non-governmental settlers in the West Bank who I believe have treated Arabs very badly, and, it should be noted, in contradiction to official Israeli government policy," writes Frank. "But I had nothing critical to say about the Israeli Navy. Indeed, I noted that I was not familiar with the specifics of the incident, and I talked about the U.S. experience in Afghanistan as an example of the difficult problems that occur when military organizations are required to use force."

Good for him to step back. Now maybe he can shut up and find out the facts before dumping on a country next time?

32 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:35:17pm

re: #27 ShaunP

Thankfully, he's backed away from that statement:

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]
"The harsh words I spoke were specifically aimed at some non-governmental settlers in the West Bank who I believe have treated Arabs very badly, and, it should be noted, in contradiction to official Israeli government policy," writes Frank. "But I had nothing critical to say about the Israeli Navy. Indeed, I noted that I was not familiar with the specifics of the incident, and I talked about the U.S. experience in Afghanistan as an example of the difficult problems that occur when military organizations are required to use force."

Good. glad he stepped back and saw reason. Not really surprised tough, Barney Frank has never been a loon. He's still in the doghouse over Fannie and Freddy in my eyes, but he's always been a sane person.

33 tokyobk  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:35:48pm

re: #23 Aceofwhat?

re: #25 Ojoe

He IS oddly detached, he comes from academia.

I don't think its that. I think it is beign abandoned by his dad and dragged around by his mom. But I am not his shrink. Many academics are passionate and Obama shows passion for his wife and daughters as well as b-ball and golf!

34 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:35:49pm

Do we have any dirt on Biden?

35 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:36:03pm

re: #16 NJDhockeyfan

Frank, in a wide-ranging interview with the Herald, went on to say that “as a Jew,” Israeli treatment of Arabs around some of the West Bank settlements “makes me ashamed that there would be Jews that would engage in that kind of victimization of a minority.”

What? Pissing off radical islamists by having the audacity to let homosexuals openly serve in their military? Or is it their unmitigated gall in insisting that their peaceful neighbors in Gaza be denied the materials to make and launch rockets into Israeli school yards?

36 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:37:05pm

Just got here .....so forgive me..
Biden....I just scraped some off my shoe...!;-)

37 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:37:06pm

re: #34 Boogberg

Do we have any dirt on Biden?

Yeah, he's Joe Biden!

38 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:37:13pm

re: #34 Boogberg

Do we have any dirt on Biden?

39 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:38:06pm

re: #33 tokyobk

Kudos for passion where it is anywhere.

40 Spricio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:38:20pm

re: #38 Cannadian Club Akbar

oh my god hahahhahaha

where on earth did you round that up? that was awesome

41 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:38:50pm

re: #33 tokyobk

re: #25 Ojoe

I don't think its that. I think it is beign abandoned by his dad and dragged around by his mom. But I am not his shrink. Many academics are passionate and Obama shows passion for his wife and daughters as well as b-ball and golf!

He seems plenty warm to me, very personable. Seems like a great dad, too.

Shouldn't we assume the best of people in the absence of hard evidence to the contrary?

42 Lidane  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:38:54pm

re: #38 Cannadian Club Akbar

[Video]

Except that Biden's on record as a teetotaler. Alcoholism runs in his family, and he's said for years he used their negative example as a reason to never drink himself.

43 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:39:00pm

re: #40 Spricio

oh my god hahahhahaha

where on earth did you round that up? that was awesome

Thats been around since before the election

44 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:39:01pm

re: #35 Slumbering Behemoth

There has been some mistreatment of Palestinians by settlers. Some-- please, please note I'm saying some, certainly not most-- are rapidly anti-Palestinian, and carry this over into their personal lives and all dealings with Palestine. However, Israel's court system is still the best recourse for any Palestinian who's been mistreated. So Israel provides even for that, for the Palestinians.

But there are legitimate complaints that are made-- and are heard.

45 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:39:14pm

re: #34 Boogberg

Do we have any dirt on Biden?

what does that mean?

46 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:39:17pm

re: #29 Ojoe

5 is right out.

If that line is being spoken, Jimmy Carter can feel good; King Arthur is about to save him from the Killer Rabbit.

47 Spricio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:39:37pm

re: #43 sattv4u2

Thats been around since before the election

news to me for sure, where the hell was I?

48 SteveC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:39:38pm

'tis my humble opinion that they ought to be very thankful that the strike team didn't go all Berzerker and clean the entire ship out. I'm not just talking about the normal level of thankfulness, this pretty much requires tossing the firstborn into the volcano.

49 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:39:39pm

re: #42 Lidane

Except that Biden's on record as a teetotaler. Alcoholism runs in his family, and he's said for years he used their negative example as a reason to never drink himself.

I have had the occasional drink myself.
/

50 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:39:41pm

Apologies if this has been posted...

Danish report from Gaza: "Where's the humanitarian crisis?"

Danish reporter Steffen Jensen visits Gaza to see how bad things are, given that the entire world is in an uproar over the humanitarian crisis there

51 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:40:34pm

re: #38 Cannadian Club Akbar

I can honestly say ..I hqave NEVWER beeen thhatt drunkk!

We're noot counting ...at this mooomment!@...Right???

52 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:40:36pm

re: #50 NJDhockeyfan

I think that Alouette was all over that.

53 Spricio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:40:59pm

re: #51 reloadingisnotahobby

lol i'm halfway to meeting ya brother

54 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:41:15pm

re: #49 Cannadian Club Akbar

I have had the occasional drink myself.
/

I fucked that up, huh?
/

55 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:41:18pm

re: #41 Aceofwhat?

Well we should assume the best

56 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:41:33pm

re: #42 Lidane

Except that Biden's on record as a teetotaler. Alcoholism runs in his family, and he's said for years he used their negative example as a reason to never drink himself.

Soooo....He's a Lier?

57 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:41:35pm

re: #33 tokyobk

I don't think its that. I think it is beign abandoned by his dad and dragged around by his mom. But I am not his shrink. Many academics are passionate and Obama shows passion for his wife and daughters as well as b-ball and golf!

How about you not speculate rudely about his quality as a father and husband? Is that any fucking business of yours? Sheesh, that sort of behavior is assholic.

Not to mention I have no fucking clue how you can think that.

Image: malia-obama.jpg

58 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:41:37pm

I sense a disturbance in the Force. It's as if a great many wingnuts and moonbats screamed out in rage and their heads suddenly asploded.

59 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:42:14pm

re: #45 Aceofwhat?

what does that mean?

Means what I said. Dirty laundry.

60 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:42:17pm

re: #58 Varek Raith

I sense a disturbance in the Force. It's as if a great many wingnuts and moonbats screamed out in rage and their heads suddenly asploded.

I saw that downstairs.

61 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:42:19pm

If all these activists really want to help the Palestinians who live in Gaza, why not send over real opportunity instead of relief supplies? You know, employment, investments, stuff to help an economy actually develop and thereby creating the basis for the independent Palestine that they claim to want....

....oh right, that wouldn't be aiding their political objective back in their home country; so much for that idea!

62 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:42:32pm

re: #50 NJDhockeyfan

It has, but I think it deserves more air time.

63 SteveC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:42:46pm

re: #56 reloadingisnotahobby

Sooo...He's a Lier?

No, he's a Democrat

64 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:42:56pm

re: #52 Aceofwhat?

Yes. I like her. She's super cool.

65 Spricio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:43:06pm

re: #63 SteveC

i struggle to see the difference sometimes

66 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:43:22pm

re: #27 ShaunP

Barney got major points in my book back in 2005 when he called out then-CNN president Eason Jordan for claiming that American troops were targeting journalists on purpose in Iraq.
Jordan made the statement at the World Economic Forum in Davos Forum in front of what he apparently thought was a totally compliant audience. Jordan eventually resigned over the episode.

67 SteveC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:43:44pm

re: #58 Varek Raith

I sense a disturbance in the Force. It's as if a great many wingnuts and moonbats screamed out in rage and their heads suddenly asploded.

F*K! Now we gotta clean this up!

68 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:43:53pm

re: #60 Cannadian Club Akbar

I saw that downstairs.

Why are you looking .."down stairs??
Huumm?

69 Lidane  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:44:29pm

re: #56 reloadingisnotahobby

Sooo...He's a Lier?

All I'm saying is that I don't know what that video is, but it's not him drunk. He's made it clear for decades that he doesn't drink, and he's been blunt about why.

70 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:44:38pm

re: #61 Surabaya Stew

The best thing they could do is go protest in the Arab states about how shittily they treat Palestinians in refugee camps and what assholes they are for inflaming the conflict and using Palestinians as their cats-paw.

This is the largest problem with the narrative of Palestine vs. Israel that is generally presented by the media. They ignore that even if Palestine elected a government that declared peace with Israel, the rest of the Arab states would probably try to topple that government-- they like things just the way they are. Having Israel to blame all of their problems on helps them keep control of their shitty, semi-theocratic countries.

71 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:44:41pm

re: #67 SteveC

F*K! Now we gotta clean this up!

That's FBV's job.
:P

72 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:45:06pm

re: #46 Dark_Falcon

If that line is being spoken, Jimmy Carter can feel good; King Arthur is about to save him from the Killer Rabbit.

Speaking of that sack of shit...

Carter condemns Israeli raid on Gaza-bound ships

ATLANTA — Former President Jimmy Carter has condemned a deadly Israeli raid on a flotilla of aid ships on its way to Gaza.

In a statement Wednesday, Carter calls on the International Quartet, led by the U.S., to help end the closure of Gaza, and allow unification of Palestinians.

Carter says the raid is a reminder that "the failed policy of besieging Gaza mainly hurts civilians."

The only thing that surprises me is that it took him so long to dump on Israel.

*SPIT*

73 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:45:17pm

re: #59 Boogberg

Means what I said. Dirty laundry.

because when he does the right thing, we should go looking for dirt? that's why i'm having trouble following...the context seems weird.

i'm in the mood to hug the guy, not mock him. and i didn't vote for him.

74 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:45:33pm

re: #53 Spricio

lol i'm halfway to meeting ya brother

Yard work will do that to ya ....Cheers~!!

75 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:45:43pm

Who are all these new people? ID's, please. And I need a beer!!

76 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:46:08pm

re: #64 Slumbering Behemoth

Yes. I like her. She's super cool.

:)

77 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:46:34pm

re: #64 Slumbering Behemoth

Yes. I like her. She's super cool.

definitely. i'm a huge fan.

78 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:46:36pm

abu mazen has offered the flotilla "activists" palestinian citizenship ...

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

wow ... what an honor!

79 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:46:39pm

re: #57 Obdicut

How about you not speculate rudely about his quality as a father and husband? Is that any fucking business of yours? Sheesh, that sort of behavior is assholic.

What am I missing here. Tokyo said that Obama shows passion towards his wife and children, how is that rudely speculating on his quality as a husband and father?

80 Spricio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:46:45pm

re: #73 Aceofwhat?

because when he does the right thing, we should go looking for dirt? that's why i'm having trouble following...the context seems weird.

i'm in the mood to hug the guy, not mock him. and i didn't vote for him.

i'm with you
its remarkable that a simple act of reasonableness has us all topsy turvy

81 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:46:58pm

re: #77 Aceofwhat?

definitely. i'm a huge fan.

:)

82 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:47:24pm

re: #27 ShaunP

Thankfully, he's backed away from that statement:

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]
"The harsh words I spoke were specifically aimed at some non-governmental settlers in the West Bank who I believe have treated Arabs very badly, and, it should be noted, in contradiction to official Israeli government policy," writes Frank. "But I had nothing critical to say about the Israeli Navy. Indeed, I noted that I was not familiar with the specifics of the incident, and I talked about the U.S. experience in Afghanistan as an example of the difficult problems that occur when military organizations are required to use force."

Thanks ShaunP. Got to keep it real.

83 captdiggs  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:47:42pm

Joe gets one right. I give him credit for this one.

84 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:47:57pm

re: #79 Slumbering Behemoth

What am I missing here. Tokyo said that Obama shows passion towards his wife and children, how is that rudely speculating on his quality as a husband and father?

I'm quite a fan of Obama's obvious passion for his wife and children.

85 SteveC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:48:22pm
In a statement Wednesday, Carter calls on the International Quartet, led by the U.S., to help end the closure of Gaza, and allow unification of Palestinians.

Sorry! John, Paul, George, and Ringo hung it up a long time ago.

Carter says the raid is a reminder that "the failed policy of besieging Gaza mainly hurts civilians."

And what did you do to fix the Palestinian Problem, Jimmy? Hmmm?

86 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:48:36pm

re: #58 Varek Raith

I sense a disturbance in the Force. It's as if a great many wingnuts and moonbats screamed out in rage and their heads suddenly asploded.

Of course they did; You were trying out your newest Dark Side power. Psyche up wingnuts, then confront them with having to agree with Obama = Dark Side Points gained.

87 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:48:38pm

re: #79 Slumbering Behemoth

What am I missing here. Tokyo said that Obama shows passion towards his wife and children, how is that rudely speculating on his quality as a husband and father?

Oh geez.

I'm really fucking sorry, Tokyo. I totally misread your comment. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

I somehow saw the word 'no' in front of passion. I am terribly sorry.

Please reflect that comment out at whoever it was that was talking that way about Obama.

88 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:48:43pm

re: #78 _RememberTonyC

abu mazen has offered the flotilla "activists" palestinian citizenship ...

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

wow ... what an honor!

ROFLMAO!

I hope they take it and stay there.

89 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:48:53pm

re: #79 Slumbering Behemoth

What am I missing here. Tokyo said that Obama shows passion towards his wife and children, how is that rudely speculating on his quality as a husband and father?

I read and re-read it and came up with the same HUH?!?! that you have!

90 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:49:05pm

re: #79 Slumbering Behemoth

What am I missing here. Tokyo said that Obama shows passion towards his wife and children, how is that rudely speculating on his quality as a husband and father?

Dude said the opposite...that Obama seemed detached, and that it was likely due to his upbringing.

I took issue with it, too, but Obdicut was a bit more vehement about it.

91 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:49:36pm

re: #87 Obdicut

upding for the Culpas!

92 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:49:41pm

re: #84 reine.de.tout

Extra credit to Obama in this case too, as his own father left him & he got no good example to follow early on.

93 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:50:01pm

Repost.

So the Irish are sending a blockade runner named the Rachel Corrie.

OK... Fine

I understand that a certain breakfast food epithet is not cool. Charles is correct. It is crass and makes someone who detests what she stood for look childish.

However, that misguided and deluded person faced the consequences for a stupid action that unfortunately cost her her life. She did what she did in support of those who would not think twice about murdering Jews or Jewish women and children.

She does not get any honor in my book.

I think the irony of sinking a ship with that name after they take the high seas equivalent action is very just and delicious.

This is not a game. If the next vessel crosses a certain line after many clear warnings and a chance to launch life boats, sink them.

94 jaunte  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:50:08pm

re: #75 Cannadian Club Akbar

Who are all these new people?


Looks to me like they're people who need a fresh new, reasonably priced LGF Cookbook with all the appetizers, sides and trimmings included.

Act now, and receive the extra Gardening Tips chapter, Killgore Trout's expert advice on saving some green by digging some dirt.

95 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:50:34pm

re: #90 Aceofwhat?

No, the first part didn't match the second. I misread it the same way as you did. He said Obama was passionate.

Can't apologize enough, Tokyo.

96 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:50:48pm

re: #94 jaunte

Looks to me like they're people who need a fresh new, reasonably priced LGF Cookbook with all the appetizers, sides and trimmings included.

Act now, and receive the extra Gardening Tips chapter, Killgore Trout's expert advice on saving some green by digging some dirt.

97 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:50:49pm

re: #92 Ojoe

Extra credit to Obama in this case too, as his own father left him & he got no good example to follow early on.

Very true!

98 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:51:13pm

re: #38 Cannadian Club Akbar

[Video]

That's like a smear video! I've seen it before. He doesn't drink.

Geeze

99 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:51:42pm

I must say that tonight has been a very pleasant night on this board ... people disagreeing without being disagreeable. Just like the good old days.

100 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:51:44pm

re: #72 NJDhockeyfan

The only thing that surprises me is that it took him so long to dump on Israel.

*SPIT*

Then it's official: Obama cannot be the worst Democratic president of my lifetime; No matter what he does, he's proven himself a better man then Carter. He is actually capable of learning before utter disaster strikes, which still eludes Rabbit Bait.

101 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:51:56pm

re: #70 Obdicut

The best thing they could do is go protest in the Arab states about how shittily they treat Palestinians in refugee camps and what assholes they are for inflaming the conflict and using Palestinians as their cats-paw.

This is the largest problem with the narrative of Palestine vs. Israel that is generally presented by the media. They ignore that even if Palestine elected a government that declared peace with Israel, the rest of the Arab states would probably try to topple that government-- they like things just the way they are. Having Israel to blame all of their problems on helps them keep control of their shitty, semi-theocratic countries.

The problem you have described remains hypothetical thanks to the willing participation of the Palestinians in the regional anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic hatefest. And don't forget that the worst offender, Iran, is not even an Arab state.

102 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:51:56pm

Mark it down y'all. June 2, 2010.

The day Biden didn't fuck it up.

103 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:52:21pm

re: #98 Stanley Sea

That's like a smear video! I've seen it before. He doesn't drink.

Geeze

I just think it's funny. I prefer my politicians to drink.:)

104 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:52:26pm

re: #100 Dark_Falcon

Poor Carter.

105 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:52:31pm

re: #95 Obdicut

No, the first part didn't match the second. I misread it the same way as you did. He said Obama was passionate.

Can't apologize enough, Tokyo.

gotcha. and to think, i haven't had my G&T yet. i suppose this is a sign that i should!

106 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:52:45pm

Wow. I put a pro Israel article up in my pages and got 3 down from 3 people I do not recall seeing comment at all. But no comments. Figures.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

107 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:52:48pm

re: #90 Aceofwhat?

Dude said the opposite...that Obama seemed detached, and that it was likely due to his upbringing.

I took issue with it, too, but Obdicut was a bit more vehement about it.

Gah. The last thing our political environment needs right now is more focus on the families of politicians. Who cares? I stopped reading Sullivan regularly because of that (I could have dealt with his paranoia in a relevant topic).

108 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:53:26pm

re: #106 Rightwingconspirator

Pff nobody comments on pages!

109 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:53:40pm

re: #104 windsagio

Poor Carter.

wasn't random, dude. Carter gave his .02 on the subject...only seems fair to respond with ours.

110 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:53:45pm

re: #73 Aceofwhat?

because when he does the right thing, we should go looking for dirt? that's why i'm having trouble following...the context seems weird.

i'm in the mood to hug the guy, not mock him. and i didn't vote for him.

Me too. It's just that if there is dirt, Lizards will find it. I don't want any surprises come election season.

111 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:53:58pm

actually here is something that would solve pretty much everything. Suppose that for the safety of the activists, the US Navy intercepts the Rachel Corrie and tows her to Ashdod for inspection. That would be a true sign of support for Israel from Obama.

112 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:54:07pm

re: #108 windsagio

Pff nobody comments on pages!

If I was going to down one I would. But that's me.

113 captdiggs  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:54:13pm

This whole event, the fraudulent humanitarian flotilla, really smells of a Turkish-Iranian concoction to take all eyes off of Iran.
It really does.

114 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:54:18pm

re: #104 windsagio

Poor Carter.

I wonder why carter hasn't yet spoken out about the latest Israeli actions? Maybe the President told him to STFU.

115 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:54:32pm

re: #113 captdiggs

This whole event, the fraudulent humanitarian flotilla, really smells of a Turkish-Iranian concoction to take all eyes off of Iran.
It really does.

And you would be correct.

116 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:54:33pm

re: #104 windsagio

Poor Carter.

Sorry, Carter regularly hoists himself on his on petard.

117 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:54:35pm

re: #109 Aceofwhat?

Oh I know, its just the vehemence. Its like he slapped Mother Theresa.

And I had to have some kind of entry!

118 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:54:42pm

re: #93 ludwigvanquixote

I'll repost too and add extra bonus content.

No, it's not a game. Neither are the politics of the matter. There are serious consequences to sinking a ship carrying "non-combatants." I put that it quotes because that's how a lot of people the world over see these people, and that perception matters a lot.

119 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:54:48pm

re: #114 _RememberTonyC

I wonder why carter hasn't yet spoken out about the latest Israeli actions? Maybe the President told him to STFU.

Likely actually.

120 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:54:52pm

re: #99 _RememberTonyC

I must say that tonight has been a very pleasant night on this board ... people disagreeing without being disagreeable. Just like the good old days.

Oh, shut the F*** up, What do you know!! Moron!

//

121 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:54:59pm

re: #114 _RememberTonyC

lol I think the whole point of him coming up is that he DID!

122 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:55:17pm

re: #107 Nimed

Gah. The last thing our political environment needs right now is more focus on the families of politicians. Who cares? I stopped reading Sullivan regularly because of that (I could have dealt with his paranoia in a relevant topic).

i agree completely, but both Obdicut and i read it incorrectly. he was being complimentary.

the point stands, however. unless it's something huge (bigamy, etc), leave the families alone.

123 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:55:32pm

re: #116 Varek Raith

Well you know its funny. Most of the rest of them don't react so strongly as we do to the things he says...

124 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:55:38pm

re: #70 Obdicut

The best thing they could do is go protest in the Arab states about how shittily they treat Palestinians in refugee camps and what assholes they are for inflaming the conflict and using Palestinians as their cats-paw.

This is the largest problem with the narrative of Palestine vs. Israel that is generally presented by the media. They ignore that even if Palestine elected a government that declared peace with Israel, the rest of the Arab states would probably try to topple that government-- they like things just the way they are. Having Israel to blame all of their problems on helps them keep control of their shitty, semi-theocratic countries.

Couldn't have said it any better! The ruling classes of the Arab states know that there is much to be gained by the suffering of the Palestinian people when it comes to maintaining control over their own peoples.

125 captdiggs  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:55:40pm

re: #115 ludwigvanquixote

I'm hoping our administration thinks the same.

126 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:55:48pm

re: #106 Rightwingconspirator

Wow. I put a pro Israel article up in my pages and got 3 down from 3 people I do not recall seeing comment at all. But no comments. Figures.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Maybe it has something to do with that link to a seething moonbat site, antiwar.

127 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:55:54pm

re: #122 Aceofwhat?

I'd vote for a bigamist prez!

128 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:55:56pm

re: #99 _RememberTonyC

I must say that tonight has been a very pleasant night on this board ... people disagreeing without being disagreeable. Just like the good old days.

Well, this topic has been a unifying experience, and Charles set up this blog in such a way as to make it so. By running an Anti-Idiotarian blog, he ensured that those who post here will always come together to fight willful stupidity.

129 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:56:07pm

re: #100 Dark_Falcon

Then it's official: Obama cannot be the worst Democratic president of my lifetime; No matter what he does, he's proven himself a better man then Carter. He is actually capable of learning before utter disaster strikes, which still eludes Rabbit Bait.

Can't be measured until Obama finishes his term. He has some work ahead of him but Obama can knock Carter off the podium as the worst POTUS if he tries hard enough.

130 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:56:13pm

re: #127 windsagio

/as long as he wasn't mormon!

131 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:56:19pm

re: #111 ludwigvanquixote

actually here is something that would solve pretty much everything. Suppose that for the safety of the activists, the US Navy intercepts the Rachel Corrie and tows her to Ashdod for inspection. That would be a true sign of support for Israel from Obama.

Man's lost his damn mind...

132 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:56:24pm

re: #108 windsagio

Pff nobody comments on pages!

It's worse than that for me -- I only comment if I dislike a page. If it's good, I'll read it, upding, and leave.

It's not me, it's human nature!

133 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:56:32pm

re: #130 windsagio

/as long as he wasn't mormon!

D'OH!
XD

134 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:56:34pm

Out for now. Thanks for making my night, Lizards.:)

135 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:56:37pm

re: #121 windsagio

lol I think the whole point of him coming up is that he DID!

what did the old fart say?

136 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:56:40pm

re: #106 Rightwingconspirator

Check your e-mail.

137 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:56:51pm

re: #114 _RememberTonyC

I wonder why carter hasn't yet spoken out about the latest Israeli actions? Maybe the President told him to STFU.

No, he flapped his big fucking mouth, just waited too long and nobody paid attention.

138 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:57:08pm

Personally, I am grateful for a President who is less about passion and more about reason.

139 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:57:13pm

re: #135 _RememberTonyC

read up, I'm too lazy to find it myself. Given the subject and that it came up, you can guess tho :P

140 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:57:16pm

re: #118 JasonA

I'll repost too and add extra bonus content.

No, it's not a game. Neither are the politics of the matter. There are serious consequences to sinking a ship carrying "non-combatants." I put that it quotes because that's how a lot of people the world over see these people, and that perception matters a lot.

Yes, but they are combatants by being blockade runners. That is how it works. Time for the world to understand that actions have consequences. Do it once, just once, after many warnings, along the way and honestly, it all stops. Fail to take firm action and the people organizing these things come back every week with progressively more provocative stunts.

Also an Irish ship is fine for this. It is not as if the mighty Irish navy will come hunting Israeli shipping.

141 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:57:21pm

re: #92 Ojoe

Extra credit to Obama in this case too, as his own father left him & he got no good example to follow early on.

Damn

142 jaunte  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:57:22pm

re: #136 reine.de.tout

Thanks for the Roi's commentary, by the way. Very illuminating.

143 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:57:23pm

re: #104 windsagio

Poor Carter.

Did my statement offend? I wasn't trying to offend, just make a lightish joke.

144 SteveC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:57:28pm

re: #120 sattv4u2

Oh, shut the F*** up, What do you know!! Moron!

//

Wuss!

//

145 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:57:35pm

re: #111 ludwigvanquixote

actually here is something that would solve pretty much everything. Suppose that for the safety of the activists, the US Navy intercepts the Rachel Corrie and tows her to Ashdod for inspection. That would be a true sign of support for Israel from Obama.

Don't bogart that joint, my friend.

146 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:57:38pm

re: #117 windsagio

Oh I know, its just the vehemence. Its like he slapped Mother Theresa.

And I had to have some kind of entry!

The guy's an antisemite. Not worth defending, my dude.

How was the street punching? Did you unleash the shoryuken or what?

147 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:57:51pm

G'night knuckleheads!

148 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:58:06pm

re: #90 Aceofwhat?

That was not the entirety of his comment. He had also said that Obama shows passion towards his family, which Obdicut has apologized for misreading.

Poor Tokyo can't catch a break. When the POTUS campaign season started, he was one of the first and few here that was openly Pro-Obama, and you can imagine the kind of shit he got from the crowd that was still here back then. And in all the posts I've seen from him, he took all that shit and responded respectfully and thoughtfully, without returning flame for flame.

I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, and allow that his criticisms of Obama do not come from ODS territory.

149 Spricio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:58:12pm

re: #146 Aceofwhat?

The guy's an antisemite. Not worth defending, my dude.

How was the street punching? Did you unleash the shoryuken or what?

got to love the streetfighter refrence

150 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:58:26pm

re: #142 jaunte

Thanks for the Roi's commentary, by the way. Very illuminating.

If you could make heads or tails of it.
LOL.
He cannot talk about his work without getting all technical. I can't understand half of what he says, but I manage to get the gist.

151 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:58:29pm

D'oh!
Learn to spell, Varek...

152 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:58:51pm

re: #131 JasonA

Man's lost his damn mind...

Me or Obama?

153 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:58:57pm

re: #143 Dark_Falcon

you came on a little strong I thought >>

There's a difference between being down on his position on Israel/Palestine, and general rage.

(I wouldn't sweat dings from me too much, tho'. Got a pretty free hand)

154 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:59:18pm

re: #145 Spare O'Lake

Don't bogart that joint, my friend.

I am not saying it will happen. I am saying that would be an actual act of an ally.

155 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:59:24pm

re: #99 _RememberTonyC

I must say that tonight has been a very pleasant night on this board ... people disagreeing without being disagreeable. Just like the good old days.

Heh, which good old days would those be? I think someone like Avanti might remember them differently.

156 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:59:28pm

re: #127 windsagio

I'd vote for a bigamist prez!

yowza!

157 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:59:34pm

re: #126 Alouette

Maybe. Good point. Not familiar with the site. I went by the content of the article.

158 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:59:42pm

re: #139 windsagio

read up, I'm too lazy to find it myself. Given the subject and that it came up, you can guess tho :P

i did ... typical drek from a doddering old fool ...

159 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:59:44pm

re: #152 ludwigvanquixote

Me or Obama?

Yes!
/

160 jaunte  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:59:45pm

re: #150 reine.de.tout

My father worked for Shell in pipeline research, so I've been around that stuff a lot.

161 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 7:59:53pm

re: #146 Aceofwhat?

Went and played rock band with WUB!

Carter is one of the things I try not to talk about on LGF tho', I think the culture here has twisted the depiction of him terribly, into something he's not. (EG an antisemite).

162 Steffan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:00:20pm

re: #83 captdiggs

Joe gets one right. I give him credit for this one.

I agree.

The only real question I have is how long it'll take Obama or Hillary to disavow him.

163 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:00:33pm

I just had another idea: How about mining Gaza's harbor? Make it so that ships cannot dock there. How does that sound?

164 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:00:33pm

re: #122 Aceofwhat?

i agree completely, but both Obdicut and i read it incorrectly. he was being complimentary.

the point stands, however. unless it's something huge (bigamy, etc), leave the families alone.

Exactly. I would add the exception that, if an aspect of a politician's personal life contradicts his official stance on policy, it's fair game.

But no more. The last campaign was pretty shameful -- Obama, Biden, McCain, Palin, all of them pimping their wives and kids at every opportunity. Blargh.

165 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:00:35pm

re: #152 ludwigvanquixote

You, my friend. I don't think the US has ever taken such a bold leap in support for Israel as that.

166 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:00:38pm

re: #147 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Broccoli filled twinkies to you, sir! :D

167 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:00:38pm

re: #161 windsagio

BUT! I"m not gonna argue about that, its a dry socket >>

168 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:00:52pm

re: #155 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh, which good old days would those be? I think someone like Avanti might remember them differently.

he was always welcome to express himself

169 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:01:00pm

re: #138 Cato the Elder

Personally, I am grateful for a President who is less about passion and more about reason.

True, but it's nice in this world of fake family relationship (i.e. John Edwards) and all this lip service to "family values" when the Obamas actually have them.

170 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:01:08pm

re: #143 Dark_Falcon

Did my statement offend? I wasn't trying to offend, just make a lightish joke.

Wind likes to stick up for Carter...

(oh noes did i pour lighter fluid on it;)

171 SteveC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:01:11pm

re: #155 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh, which good old days would those be? I think someone like Avanti might remember them differently.

Back in the "good ol' days" Avanti regularly got checked into the wall, hard. But he gave back as good as he got.

172 captdiggs  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:01:24pm

Ok, this won't be popular here these days, but I will say it anyway.

Part of the reason that the hatred against Israel has noticeably ratcheted up around the world is the current US administration.
Obama's...shall we say cool...relations with Israel have indicated a serious weakening in official US support for Israel, and the sharks smell blood.

Sorry, but that's the truth.

173 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:01:36pm

re: #161 windsagio

Went and played rock band with WUB!

Carter is one of the things I try not to talk about on LGF tho', I think the culture here has twisted the depiction of him terribly, into something he's not. (EG an antisemite).

If Carter is not an anti-Semite, he does a good imitation of one.

He should take his Nobel Peace Prize and go pound sand with it.

174 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:01:38pm

re: #167 windsagio

BUT! I"m not gonna argue about that, its a dry socket >>

Carter is a walking talking anti-Semite. It has been well established.

175 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:01:44pm

re: #168 _RememberTonyC

Lol "Good old days".


Everything's gone to hell since all those crazy stalkers got banned!

176 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:01:53pm

re: #153 windsagio

you came on a little strong I thought >>

There's a difference between being down on his position on Israel/Palestine, and general rage.

(I wouldn't sweat dings from me too much, tho'. Got a pretty free hand)

Fair enough, no problem.

177 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:01:57pm

re: #163 Dark_Falcon

I just had another idea: How about mining Gaza's harbor? Make it so that ships cannot dock there. How does that sound?

A boat go boom and it's all "innocent Gaza fishermen"

178 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:02:18pm

re: #149 Spricio

got to love the streetfighter refrence

i was a Ken aficionado back in the good old days of SFII, when a quarter could buy you a half-hour of playing time, as long as there were enough other people who thought they could beat you...

179 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:02:19pm

re: #170 Aceofwhat?

Haha thats an apt way to put it, I do like to stick up for him :D

Pretty damn Quixotic if you ask me >>

(not one letter of thanks... NOT ONE!)

180 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:02:29pm

re: #161 windsagio

Went and played rock band with WUB!

Carter is one of the things I try not to talk about on LGF tho', I think the culture here has twisted the depiction of him terribly, into something he's not. (EG an antisemite).

re: #167 windsagio

BUT! I"m not gonna argue about that, its a dry socket >>

TRANSLATION
I'm going to make a comment about Carter but I don't want to talk about Carter!

181 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:02:38pm

re: #161 windsagio

Went and played rock band with WUB!

Carter is one of the things I try not to talk about on LGF tho', I think the culture here has twisted the depiction of him terribly, into something he's not. (EG an antisemite).

Carter's not an antisemite. He just dislikes Jews and hates Israel.

182 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:02:49pm

OT in the Stanly Cup finals. There is nothing more exciting in sports.

183 ShaunP  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:02:51pm

re: #172 captdiggs

Ok, this won't be popular here these days, but I will say it anyway.

Part of the reason that the hatred against Israel has noticeably ratcheted up around the world is the current US administration.
Obama's...shall we say cool...relations with Israel have indicated a serious weakening in official US support for Israel, and the sharks smell blood.

Sorry, but that's the truth.

That's the spin; but far from the truth...

184 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:02:52pm

re: #178 Aceofwhat?

People take the Street fighter VERY seriously now. Its kinda scary.

We'd cut out during HS to go play it at the 7-11 tho :)

185 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:03:00pm

re: #172 captdiggs

Ok, this won't be popular here these days, but I will say it anyway.

Part of the reason that the hatred against Israel has noticeably ratcheted up around the world is the current US administration.
Obama's...shall we say cool...relations with Israel have indicated a serious weakening in official US support for Israel, and the sharks smell blood.

Sorry, but that's the truth.

Evidence?

186 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:03:05pm

re: #163 Dark_Falcon

I just had another idea: How about mining Gaza's harbor? Make it so that ships cannot dock there. How does that sound?

The fishermen will love it.

187 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:03:07pm

re: #161 windsagio

Went and played rock band with WUB!

Carter is one of the things I try not to talk about on LGF tho', I think the culture here has twisted the depiction of him terribly, into something he's not. (EG an antisemite).

What did Carter achieve with his presidency? Very few would consider his presidency anything but a failure. This is a serious question since you seem to want to defend him. I don't know anyone on the right or left who holds his presidency in high regard.

188 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:03:14pm

re: #181 ryannon

Carter's not an antisemite. He just dislikes Jews and hates Israel.

He likes other Semites, like Saudi princes.

189 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:03:18pm

Another repost as I'm chasing the topic tonight:

re: #448 LudwigVanQuixote


Sink it now or they will not stop. There will be a month of protest no matter what. Tell them very clearly that they can accept to into an Israeli port for inspection or be sank if they cross a certain line. Give them many warnings along the way, but do not hesitate. If they do not do something like this, these propaganda stunts will not stop.

The goal is to force Israel into impossible situations. Make them fight hand-to-hand with every Jew hater out there. And there are many more of them then there are Jews. It is a war of attrition. If they can kill one Jew while losing 50 of their own, they will celebrate and keep coming.

They want Israel to lose the will to fight and struggle, lose the will to send their sons into danger. They have proven that they can have half of Israel cowering in shelters while they fire thousands of rockets, and the world will condemn Israel. Now they have proven they violate the defense zone, and beat Israeli troops with iron bars, and the world condemns Israel.

Fuck the world, Israel do what you have to do to achieve security.

190 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:03:22pm

re: #160 jaunte

My father worked for Shell in pipeline research, so I've been around that stuff a lot.

The Roi thinks very highly of Shell and how they run their operations.

191 SteveC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:03:23pm

re: #175 windsagio

Lol "Good old days".

Everything's gone to hell since all those crazy stalkers got banned!

Go to hell
Go directly to hell
Do not pass GO
Do not collect $200

192 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:03:31pm

re: #177 Alouette

A boat go boom and it's all "innocent Gaza fishermen"

Good point. Thanks for the help brainstorming.

193 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:03:32pm

re: #180 sattv4u2

Lol do you blame me?

194 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:03:45pm

re: #177 Alouette

A boat go boom and it's all "innocent Gaza fishermen"

Yeah, they would send out a rowboat on a suicide mission for the propaganda.

195 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:04:01pm

re: #180 sattv4u2

TRANSLATION
I'm going to make a comment about Carter but I don't want to talk about Carter!

Translation: we are not the least bit surprised or amused.

196 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:04:17pm

re: #165 JasonA

You, my friend. I don't think the US has ever taken such a bold leap in support for Israel as that.

You misread me. I never said I thought Obama would do it - or for that matter any president save perhaps Clinton or Truman (and then longshot). However, if the US really wanted to show an unshakable alliance that would do it. No one is going to try to run the US Navy. The fact that it would end this completely and right away and Obama won't is proof of where the alliance actually is in Washington's eyes.

197 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:04:25pm

re: #195 Bagua

You should be amused!

198 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:04:27pm

re: #168 _RememberTonyC

he was always welcome to express himself

True, and he did. But those who often disagreed with him did so in a most disagreeable manner. With both boots, right down the throat.

199 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:04:54pm

re: #136 reine.de.tout

Check your e-mail.

Done and thank you!
Owe you another 1

200 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:05:47pm

re: #196 ludwigvanquixote

It's an empty gesture in that we'd be doing something Israel can do for itself.

201 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:06:06pm

re: #188 Alouette

He likes other Semites, like Saudi princes.

LGF has severely misjudged him.

202 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:06:42pm

re: #200 JasonA

And furthermore, I don't think that helps Israel as much as you think it would.

203 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:06:46pm

re: #172 captdiggs

Ok, this won't be popular here these days, but I will say it anyway.

Part of the reason that the hatred against Israel has noticeably ratcheted up around the world is the current US administration.
Obama's...shall we say cool...relations with Israel have indicated a serious weakening in official US support for Israel, and the sharks smell blood.

Sorry, but that's the truth.

I don't think Obama has been anti-Israel--doesn't sound like you're saying that either. But it is true, the perception by some quarters that Obama is not as committed as previous administrations.

Biden's strong statement here, and the US admin's calm reaction to this incident should help rebuild credibility on that front.

204 captdiggs  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:06:50pm

re: #183 ShaunP

re: #185 Boogberg

Evidence?

There's been a ton of articles posted here on LGF

The latest being that Obama went along with the UN resolution on the NPT which names only Israel for scrutiny.
Yeah, I know they made comments about how unfair it was AFTER they went along with it.
Previously, both Clinton and Bush rejected it.

205 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:06:51pm

re: #189 Bagua

Another repost as I'm chasing the topic tonight:

re: #448 LudwigVanQuixote

The goal is to force Israel into impossible situations. Make them fight hand-to-hand with every Jew hater out there. And there are many more of them then there are Jews. It is a war of attrition. If they can kill one Jew while losing 50 of their own, they will celebrate and keep coming.

They want Israel to lose the will to fight and struggle, lose the will to send their sons into danger. They have proven that they can have half of Israel cowering in shelters while they fire thousands of rockets, and the world will condemn Israel. Now they have proven they violate the defense zone, and beat Israeli troops with iron bars, and the world condemns Israel.

Fuck the world, Israel do what you have to do to achieve security.

Exactly. If you are facing a queen trap, don't walk her into it. Sacrifice a pawn to get out of it.

206 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:06:56pm

re: #196 ludwigvanquixote

(and into the breach!)

Asking one country to enforce another country's blockade is really freakin' crazy.

They have reasons to do it, but they should do it themselves.

207 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:07:01pm

re: #201 ryannon

You're on a roll tonight.

208 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:07:36pm

re: #154 ludwigvanquixote

I am not saying it will happen. I am saying that would be an actual act of an ally.

It sure would be wonderful. But I'd settle for an unequivocal statement of solidarity and support from President Obama. VP Biden's "what's the big deal" is better than nothing, but hardly sufficient to counter the international chorus of anti-Semitic hatred.

209 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:07:45pm

re: #129 NJDhockeyfan

I think the worst president was Buchanan, who let the southern faction get away with treason in the run up to the Civil War.

No one I can think of even comes close.

210 bratwurst  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:08:26pm

re: #172 captdiggs

Part of the reason that the hatred against Israel has noticeably ratcheted up around the world is the current US administration.

Israel was, of course, universally ADORED 16 months ago.

211 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:08:47pm

re: #161 windsagio

Went and played rock band with WUB!

Carter is one of the things I try not to talk about on LGF tho', I think the culture here has twisted the depiction of him terribly, into something he's not. (EG an antisemite).

Cool.

And i have a quote for you.

"There is no geographical promontory out there, populated by Catholics who are exposed to terminal persecution. . . . I am ready to concede that in our world, in our time, Jews have inherited distinctive immunities. . . .Anyone who gives voice, especially if this is done repeatedly, to opinions distinctively, even uniquely, offensive to the security of settled Jewish sentiment involving religious or ethnic or tribal pride engages in anti-Semitic activity."

-William F. Buckley

212 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:09:01pm

No goal!

213 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:09:37pm

re: #211 Aceofwhat?

Buckley, as he so often is, is full of shit.

214 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:10:20pm

re: #172 captdiggs

Ok, this won't be popular here these days, but I will say it anyway.

Part of the reason that the hatred against Israel has noticeably ratcheted up around the world is the current US administration.
Obama's...shall we say cool...relations with Israel have indicated a serious weakening in official US support for Israel, and the sharks smell blood.

Sorry, but that's the truth.

Dude, seriously? So was the Lebanon deal an indication of similar weakening? The hatred is virulent and consistent. It's not Obama. Don't do that.

215 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:10:27pm

re: #111 ludwigvanquixote

actually here is something that would solve pretty much everything. Suppose that for the safety of the activists, the US Navy intercepts the Rachel Corrie and tows her to Ashdod for inspection. That would be a true sign of support for Israel from Obama.

It would make Israel seem incapable of doing something as simple as enforcing a naval blockade against civilian ships and the Israelis would rightfully be pissed and indignant.

216 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:10:32pm

re: #209 Ojoe

I think the worst president was Buchanan, who let the southern faction get away with treason in the run up to the Civil War.

No one I can think of even comes close.

Did you know that before the Wold Wars, Memorial day was established to honor Union soldiers, only. I think our ancestors would be shocked at the acceptance of the Confederate flag in states such as SC.

217 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:10:34pm

Well. It's safe to say that the Turks are behind this propaganda operation. This first phase was in it's final stages as many of the Flotillaists returned earlier today to Istanbul with a large presence of Turkish politicians.

218 philosophus invidius  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:10:40pm

re: #93 ludwigvanquixote

Why do so many Irish people hate Israel so much?

219 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:10:45pm

re: #213 windsagio

Could you be more specific? As in the above paragraph?

220 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:10:49pm

re: #80 Spricio

i'm with you
its remarkable that a simple act of reasonableness has us all topsy turvy

blind partisanship is a hell of a drug

221 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:11:08pm

re: #200 JasonA

It's an empty gesture in that we'd be doing something Israel can do for itself.

Actually in the PR world which everyone goes on about, it would be a giant coup that would clearly state where the US stands on such things.

As to what Israel should do about these ships, let me be really clear.

These people are supporting the genocide of Jews by supporting an elected terrorist government with that clearly stated aim.

They are by definition enemies and mortal ones at that.

They do not get mercy or Kumbaya. If they are determined to die for a higher cause we should give them what they want. It needs to only happen once. Then yes there will be folk songs and plays written and much gnashing of teeth for exactly one month, until the damage from the oil spill, or another change in Brittany Spears's breast size becomes really obvious.

222 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:11:28pm

re: #213 windsagio

Buckley, as he so often is, is full of shit.

You disagree with that particular quote of his?

I think it encapsulates why Carter is an anti-Semite.

223 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:11:43pm

re: #208 Spare O'Lake

It sure would be wonderful. But I'd settle for an unequivocal statement of solidarity and support from President Obama. VP Biden's "what's the big deal" is better than nothing, but hardly sufficient to counter the international chorus of anti-Semitic hatred.

Well said, and it is a very sad thing that Biden said it but not Obama.

224 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:11:48pm

re: #213 windsagio

Buckley, as he so often is, is full of shit.

You're welcome to think so.

But i like that definition of antisemitism, and mine roughly hews to that line, which is why I don't find myself guilty of exaggeration when i label Carter an antisemite.

225 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:11:55pm

re: #216 prairiefire

Yes and it was called Decoration Day.

226 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:12:01pm

re: #207 JasonA

You're on a roll tonight.

Thank you. But it's like people are feeding me the lines.

227 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:12:18pm

re: #212 NJDhockeyfan

I hate you fuckin' cable having people!
/no hockey for me :(

228 captdiggs  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:12:37pm

re: #203 BryanS

Biden's strong statement here, and the US admin's calm reaction to this incident should help rebuild credibility on that front.

I think in part it's because they are seeing the same thing I said and considering what to do about it.
Obama is now reaching a critical juncture on what his position on Israel will be. We now have a situation where Turkey is making some serious overt threats towards Israel after acting as Iran's advocate.

This is all really bad news, and not just for Israel.

229 Ojoe  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:12:40pm

BBL

230 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:12:42pm

re: #220 WindUpBird

blind partisanship is a hell of a drug

heh,, you have on here righty after righty stating that Biden did the right thing, and applauding him, and YOUR take on it is that there is " blind partisanship"!?!?

231 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:12:53pm

re: #218 philosophus invidius

Why do so many Irish people hate Israel so much?

You know that is one I simply do not get. One would think that the Irish after struggling for so long to regain control of their homeland would be natural allies of the Jews. One would think that anyway.

232 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:12:57pm

re: #218 philosophus invidius

Why do so many Irish people hate Israel so much?

You've not heard of anti-Semitism?

233 mich-again  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:13:23pm

More evidence that the first rule of scoundrels is to never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

234 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:13:27pm

re: #181 ryannon

Carter's not an antisemite. He just dislikes Jews and hates Israel.

winner

235 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:13:53pm

re: #204 captdiggs

re: #185 Boogberg

There's been a ton of articles posted here on LGF

The latest being that Obama went along with the UN resolution on the NPT which names only Israel for scrutiny.
Yeah, I know they made comments about how unfair it was AFTER they went along with it.
Previously, both Clinton and Bush rejected it.

I don't see how that is giving Israel the cold shoulder.

236 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:14:01pm

re: #212 NJDhockeyfan

No goal!

Flyers are back in the series!

237 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:14:05pm

re: #227 Slumbering Behemoth

I hate you fuckin' cable having people!
/no hockey for me :(

He shoots....he scores! Philly wins.

238 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:14:08pm

re: #215 tommysilver

It would make Israel seem incapable of doing something as simple as enforcing a naval blockade against civilian ships and the Israelis would rightfully be pissed and indignant.

That is a very good point. It would have to be announced as a joint venture.

239 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:14:47pm

re: #172 captdiggs

Ok, this won't be popular here these days, but I will say it anyway.

Part of the reason that the hatred against Israel has noticeably ratcheted up around the world is the current US administration.
Obama's...shall we say cool...relations with Israel have indicated a serious weakening in official US support for Israel, and the sharks smell blood.

Sorry, but that's the truth.

No, actually it's not the truth at all, it's blindly partisan and incorrect, but please continue with your very original and clever assertions

240 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:14:52pm

re: #161 windsagio

Went and played rock band with WUB!

Carter is one of the things I try not to talk about on LGF tho', I think the culture here has twisted the depiction of him terribly, into something he's not. (EG an antisemite).

And he doesn't still stink from the way he soiled himself in his handling of the Iranian hostage crisis either.

241 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:14:59pm

re: #217 Gus 802

Well. It's safe to say that the Turks are behind this propaganda operation. This first phase was in it's final stages as many of the Flotillaists returned earlier today to Istanbul with a large presence of Turkish politicians.

any news on whether they recovered the organs that we and Mossad have been harvesting from the poor Iraqis?

(God i wish that was a joke)

242 mich-again  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:15:08pm

re: #237 NJDhockeyfan

He shoots...he scores! Philly wins.


I couldn't find the game on cable. But thankfully we get CBC here.

243 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:15:16pm

And the Flyers win at home in OT, beat the Blackhawks 4-3. I'm not alarmed, since I didn't expect the Hawks to sweep.

244 captdiggs  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:15:25pm

re: #210 bratwurst

Israel was, of course, universally ADORED 16 months ago.

It's ratcheted up tremendously over the few months, which coincides with Obama's diplomatic break with Israel over Jerusalem.

245 SteveC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:15:34pm

Just when you thought Teenage boys couldn't get any more stupid...

A Minnesota teenager had to have his testicle amputated after being punched in the groin by a classmate, KARE11.com reported Friday.

David Gibbons, 14, was changing classes in his Crosby, Minn. high school when he was attacked by another student playing a game called “sack tapping.”

246 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:15:37pm

re: #172 captdiggs

Ok, this won't be popular here these days, but I will say it anyway.

Part of the reason that the hatred against Israel has noticeably ratcheted up around the world is the current US administration.
Obama's...shall we say cool...relations with Israel have indicated a serious weakening in official US support for Israel, and the sharks smell blood.

Sorry, but that's the truth.

Um no, it's Arab propaganda against Israel. It's keeping a group of people under "refugee status" to pull at the heartstrings of morons who have no moral compass. They happen to be the wealthiest refugees in the history of mankind as the UN gives them millions a year.

From the article Tony posted: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Abbas expressed hope that the Palestinian reaction to the “massacre” would be to achieve unity between his Fatah faction and Hamas, saying this was much better than all forms of denunciation and criticism.

He said that despite the power struggle between Hamas and Fatah, the PA was continuing to allocate 58 percent of its budget for the Gaza Strip’s 1.5 million residents.

Brought together by their hatred for Israel. Just gives me a warm fuzzy.... ugh.

During the Bush years (2000-2006), there was the second intifada that killed and maimed many Jews and left 100s of orphans. Anti-Semitism has been on the rise since 2000.

247 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:15:38pm

re: #219 Rightwingconspirator

re: #224 Aceofwhat?

Saying that being against the things that happen to be in Israel's best interest (often) means you're antisemitic is a ludicrous exaggeration. I'm at a loss to understand how you guys can think that's a good statement of anything.

Being Antisemitic means that you don't like semitic people, or really that you don't like Jews. Not adhering to the policies of the state of Israel is very different from that.

Not only that, people are applying an unfair criteria because they're what you (the general you) think are the in the best interests of Israel... Not remotely what's objectively best for them.

248 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:16:11pm

re: #244 captdiggs

It's ratcheted up tremendously over the few months, which coincides with Obama's diplomatic break with Israel over Jerusalem.

There was no diplomatic break with Israel, over Jerusalem or anything else.

249 SteveC  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:16:17pm

re: #237 NJDhockeyfan

He shoots...he scores! Philly wins.

Hextall kicks somebody's ass!

250 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:16:53pm

re: #228 captdiggs

I think in part it's because they are seeing the same thing I said and considering what to do about it.
Obama is now reaching a critical juncture on what his position on Israel will be. We now have a situation where Turkey is making some serious overt threats towards Israel after acting as Iran's advocate.

This is all really bad news, and not just for Israel.

The Turkey situation has been getting increasingly worse. Their playing footsie with Iran/Syria is a threat to our security in the Middle East. Here's hoping the current party in power gets voted out next round of elections.

251 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:16:57pm

re: #213 windsagio

Buckley, as he so often is, is full of shit.

And here I was thinking that he pretty much nailed a lot of shit spot on. We must live on different planets. What color is the sky on yours? Is it blue like mine?

252 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:16:58pm

re: #240 Spare O'Lake

That brings up Iran-contra >>

253 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:17:01pm

re: #249 SteveC

Hextall kicks somebody's ass!

Heh. Blast from the past?

254 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:17:24pm

re: #251 Slumbering Behemoth

A closed monoculture is a terrible thing.

255 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:17:28pm

I swear, it's like some people are just learning about politics and diplomacy for the first time.

256 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:17:30pm

re: #188 Alouette

He likes other Semites, like Saudi princes.

So does Bush.

257 mich-again  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:17:41pm

If Israel's Arab neighbors actually gave a crap about the plight of the Palestinians, they wouldn't still be living in refugee camps in those neighboring countries.

258 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:17:58pm

re: #230 sattv4u2

heh,, you have on here righty after righty stating that Biden did the right thing, and applauding him, and YOUR take on it is that there is " blind partisanship"!?!?

I was speaking directly to that guy with this hurr hurr there's no difference between a democrat and a liar and his we're all so amazed that Biden is suddenly reasonable, which is just total shitty backhanded nonsense.

See, when I use the reply function, and the little number link with their name shows up? That means I'm talking to that person! It's pretty handy!

259 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:18:15pm

re: #244 captdiggs

It's ratcheted up tremendously over the few months, which coincides with Obama's diplomatic break with Israel over Jerusalem.

you're wrong but don't let that stop you

260 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:18:21pm

re: #254 windsagio

A closed monoculture is a terrible thing.

Yes, it is. But SB doesn't live in one of those.

261 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:18:42pm

re: #244 captdiggs

It's ratcheted up tremendously over the few months, which coincides with Obama's diplomatic break with Israel over Jerusalem.

I don't think you understand what a diplomatic break means. A diplomatic break is a very serious event which leads to the cutting of all ties and the recalling of ambassadors.

262 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:18:46pm

re: #228 captdiggs

I think in part it's because they are seeing the same thing I said and considering what to do about it.

You're making up a story as you go along. A story that's quite impossible to verify, so you can confortably project your political biases into it.

You should be a pundit.

263 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:18:50pm

re: #221 ludwigvanquixote

Israel should do what they did this weekend, only better. Leave the paintball guns at home and expect hostilities from the "peace activists." I strongly believe that's the best way for them to handle this for now.

264 The Shadow Do  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:18:50pm

Good evening. I am glad to see that Joe is saying what ought to be said. I would love to hear it from the President but I believe I understand. To a large segment of the left, mostly the young or the full on liberal pundit class, Biden can be dismissed as just that old Joe guy, God love him. And I do think the Palestinian apologists are growing at a quick clip among the generation that has been schooled in the last 10-15 years sadly. I see a generational difference in the perceptions regarding the conflict - again just a personal observation. This is a statement Obama will be careful not to fully own though it is obviously endorsed. This is not a criticism by the way, just an observation. He has disappointed enough of his early supporters already.

265 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:18:51pm

re: #247 windsagio

re: #224 Aceofwhat?

Saying that being against the things that happen to be in Israel's best interest (often) means you're antisemitic is a ludicrous exaggeration. I'm at a loss to understand how you guys can think that's a good statement of anything.

Being Antisemitic means that you don't like semitic people, or really that you don't like Jews. Not adhering to the policies of the state of Israel is very different from that.

Not only that, people are applying an unfair criteria because they're what you (the general you) think are the in the best interests of Israel... Not remotely what's objectively best for them.

fortunately, that's not what he said. he said "offensive to their security".

a much clearer and simpler standard.

266 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:19:32pm

re: #256 tommysilver

So does Bush.

Bush was a great friend of Israel and enemy of terrorists. Carter is a great friend of terrorists. There is a difference.

267 mich-again  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:19:39pm

re: #255 Charles

I swear, it's like some people are just learning about politics and diplomacy for the first time.

After years of being willfully ignorant.

268 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:19:56pm

re: #213 windsagio

Buckley, as he so often is, is full of shit.

Damn Windy the reaction was harsh.

269 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:20:05pm

re: #255 Charles

I swear, it's like some people are just learning about politics and diplomacy for the first time.

or demonstrating their inability to learn...

270 captdiggs  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:20:13pm

re: #239 WindUpBird

No, actually it's not the truth at all, it's blindly partisan and incorrect, but please continue with your very original and clever assertions

The blindly partisan on this issue is you. Or are you going to show me some evidence that relations with Israel are just a bed of roses under this administration?

271 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:20:39pm

re: #268 Stanley Sea

Sorry, dude's a tool >>

272 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:20:59pm

re: #248 Charles

There was no diplomatic break with Israel, over Jerusalem or anything else.

There was a revocation of a deal made about East Jerusalem during the Clinton Administration. I am not arguing that Obama hates Israel. I rather think he finds them inconvenient to his larger agenda and wishes they would just play ball a little more.

The one place where Obama has been consistently weak is in his ability to believe that that the bad guys can be negotiated with productively.

273 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:21:01pm

re: #268 Stanley Sea

Damn Windy the reaction was harsh.

i can take it. Windy's allowed to get fired up from time to time...especially when i'm right!

274 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:21:09pm

re: #263 JasonA

Israel should do what they did this weekend, only better. Leave the paintball guns at home and expect hostilities from the "peace activists." I strongly believe that's the best way for them to handle this for now.

No more Mr Nice Guy...warn them to stop or sink. Sink them if they cross the line.

275 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:21:14pm

re: #247 windsagio

IMHO
You simply fail to make the life and death connection between the Jewish people and that real estate. A connect Buckley understood, and that is even more so today. He puts it in a particular limited context, so not much of an exaggeration at all. I refer to "involving religious or ethnic or tribal pride"

276 captdiggs  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:21:14pm

re: #248 Charles

There was no diplomatic break with Israel, over Jerusalem or anything else.

That's just unrealistic Charles.

277 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:21:21pm

re: #270 captdiggs

The blindly partisan on this issue is you. Or are you going to show me some evidence that relations with Israel are just a bed of roses under this administration?

DUDE

278 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:21:24pm

Politicians who carefully phrase public statements to offend the smallest number of people... wow! Who ever heard of that!

279 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:21:31pm

re: #265 Aceofwhat?

Read the bottom.

What people are saying is "We know what is best for Israel, that person disagrees with us constantly, therefore he must hate Jews".

That's just not right.

280 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:21:32pm

re: #231 ludwigvanquixote

You know that is one I simply do not get. One would think that the Irish after struggling for so long to regain control of their homeland would be natural allies of the Jews. One would think that anyway.



Following the Israeli incursion into Jenin earlier this year, Paul Collinson, a British explosives expert working with the Red Cross, identified hundreds of explosive devices found there and noted that "the pipe bombs I found in Jenin are exact replicas of ones I found in Northern Ireland." The Daily Telegraph quoted a U.S. government official as saying in response: "If there was clear and convincing evidence that the IRA has been training Palestinians in bomb-making techniques, then we are facing a grave and grievous situation for the IRA — it would surely lead to a reassessment of whether the IRA should be put on the designated list of terrorist organizations with a global reach.

...
Students of terrorism can easily trace the IRA's connections to the PLO and its numerous factions back to the 1970s and 1980s, when IRA and PLO operatives trained together in Libya and the Bekaa Valley. Today, IRA involvement is ongoing in Colombia, where al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad factions — to name a few — are engaged in illegal arms and drug trafficking and money-laundering. Recent revelations about al Qaeda training methods has been also identified as carrying some of the IRA's trademarks. If the EU and the Bush administration would unify their terrorist lists with "global reach" to include all terrorist organizations — including the IRA, Hezbollah, all Palestinian terror organizations, and the ELN — we might then have a better chance to win the war on terrorism.
link

That's just for starters. Add in the monolithic anti-Israel stance of the UK media, especially such as al-Guardian and the mighty al-Beeb and it is a better question to ask why anyone in the UK supports Israel. They must be daft or Jews to go against the media, the political elites and the entrenched bureaucracy.

281 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:21:43pm

re: #252 windsagio

That brings up Iran-contra >>

Nice deflection, but Carter still screwed up his handling of the hostage crisis. He royally screwed up our whole relationship with Iran with his handling of the US relationship with the Shah .

282 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:22:37pm

re: #218 philosophus invidius

It's purely an "occupation thing".

283 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:23:00pm

re: #275 Rightwingconspirator

I'm not denying that link, I"m saying that not taking policies that you think defend that land doesn't automatically make the other guy hate the Jews.

284 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:23:21pm

re: #281 BryanS

Yeah I know, he really hated negotiating with terrorists!

285 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:23:42pm

re: #254 windsagio

A closed monoculture is a terrible thing.

It is, as is talking shit in a serious forum using the "monoculture" scare word defence. ~~

286 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:23:45pm

re: #213 windsagio

Buckley, as he so often is, is full of shit.

Mr. Buckley has passed away.

287 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:23:46pm

re: #270 captdiggs

The blindly partisan on this issue is you. Or are you going to show me some evidence that relations with Israel are just a bed of roses under this administration?

You're asking for evidence? You've made statements in this thread that would require reading Obama's mind!

288 mich-again  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:23:47pm

re: #272 ludwigvanquixote

and wishes they would just play ball a little more.

To "play ball" in this case means to permit bloodshed of innocents.

Thats a poor analogy. To "play ball" infers some kind of game where there are actually rules.

289 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:24:25pm

re: #279 windsagio

Read the bottom.

What people are saying is "We know what is best for Israel, that person disagrees with us constantly, therefore he must hate Jews".

That's just not right.

no, what people are saying is "that person consistently sides with groups and/or countries which expressly wish the destruction of Israel, therefore that person is an antisemite."

just right!

290 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:24:37pm

re: #286 Alouette

"Mr. Buckley, as he so often was, was Full of shit."

Forgive the error.

291 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:24:52pm

re: #271 windsagio

Sorry, dude's a tool >>

Buckley was a tool? Really? Care to illustrate how you've come to that conclusion?

292 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:25:06pm

re: #278 Charles

Politicians who carefully phrase public statements to offend the smallest number of people... wow! Who ever heard of that!

Remember, in Greater Wingnuttia, the most important objective of any policy or public statement is to make liberals angry.

293 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:25:41pm

re: #289 Aceofwhat?

If he thinks they're doing wrong, should he just shut up?

294 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:25:59pm

re: #255 Charles

I swear, it's like some people are just learning about politics and diplomacy for the first time.

A lot of 'em are. What the hell does a 20 yr old know?

295 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:26:12pm

re: #248 Charles

There was no diplomatic break with Israel, over Jerusalem or anything else.

It wasn't a "break" in the full sense, but it was a unilateral repudiation of the existing understanding concerning building in Jerusalem.

296 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:26:28pm

re: #247 windsagio

re: #224 Aceofwhat?

Saying that being against the things that happen to be in Israel's best interest (often) means you're antisemitic is a ludicrous exaggeration. I'm at a loss to understand how you guys can think that's a good statement of anything.

Being Antisemitic means that you don't like semitic people, or really that you don't like Jews. Not adhering to the policies of the state of Israel is very different from that.

Not only that, people are applying an unfair criteria because they're what you (the general you) think are the in the best interests of Israel... Not remotely what's objectively best for them.

Yes.

297 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:26:30pm

re: #293 windsagio

If he thinks they're doing wrong, should he just shut up?

no, he should speak so that we know he's a fool!

298 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:26:35pm

re: #275 Rightwingconspirator

That last line should be blindingly obvious. Apparently not so for everyone.

299 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:27:29pm

re: #248 Charles

There was no diplomatic break with Israel, over Jerusalem or anything else.

Somehow, some brainwashing has occurred.

300 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:27:35pm

re: #291 Slumbering Behemoth

Old clip, I know.

301 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:28:12pm

re: #274 NJDhockeyfan

No more Mr Nice Guy...warn them to stop or sink. Sink them if they cross the line.

I'll try this one more time.

Blowing up a ship full of people that doesn't need to be blown up is a bad thing. These aren't warships and there are other options on the table.

302 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:28:44pm

re: #297 Aceofwhat?

Calling him antisemitic (or calling critics of Israeli policy antisemitic) is a way to try to shut people up. I think it bugs me so much because its goddamn bullying.

I hate bullies.

303 captdiggs  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:29:07pm

re: #287 Nimed

You're asking for evidence? You've made statements in this thread that would require reading Obama's mind!

Ok...can you explain why this administration just acceded to the arab demand that Israel be singled out for scrutiny under the NPT when two prior presidents representing both parties rejected that?
Can you explain why he opted to make building in Jerusalem his public line in the sand regarding Israel, yet has made no similar demand of the palestinians (ie. like a public renouncement of the right of return)?

You really don't have to be a mind reader.

304 mich-again  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:29:49pm

re: #301 JasonA

You don't have to blow up a ship to sink it.

305 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:30:02pm

re: #302 windsagio

Calling him antisemitic (or calling critics of Israeli policy antisemitic) is a way to try to shut people up. I think it bugs me so much because its goddamn bullying.

I hate bullies.

What's up wimp? :)

306 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:30:18pm

re: #305 Walter L. Newton

Don't worry, I consider you more a gadfly :D

307 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:30:46pm

re: #276 captdiggs

That's just unrealistic Charles.

Apparently you want to disregard the terminology. Let me try this again with an outside source:

Breaking Relations

The formal act of severing diplomatic relations with another state to underscore disapproval of its actions or policies. It is generally an unwise step, because when relations between states are most strained is when the maintaining of diplomatic relations is most important. It makes little sense to keep diplomats on the scene when things are going relatively well and then take them away when they are most needed. An intermediate step which indicates serious displeasure but stops short of an actual diplomatic break is for a government to recall its ambassador indefinitely. This is preferable to a break in relations as his embassy will continue to function; but again this comes under the heading of cutting one’s nose to spite one’s face. If a dramatic gesture of this kind is needed, it is far better promptly and publicly to recall an ambassador for consultations, and then just as promptly return him to his post.

308 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:30:57pm

re: #266 NJDhockeyfan

Clearly, but my point was that being a friend of Saudi princes does not automatically make one an enemy of Israel unless of course your entire world view is shaped by pure ideology.

309 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:31:00pm

re: #304 mich-again

Feel free to add the word sink to my statement if it must be said.

310 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:31:16pm

re: #298 Slumbering Behemoth

Yup. If you unfairly broaden the statement you change it out and away from the authors intent. At least its more fun to argue Buckley than some others.

311 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:31:19pm

re: #306 windsagio

Don't worry, I consider you more a gadfly :D

I just got in from work... it appears you need a little smacking around or something... causing trouble again Windy? :)

312 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:31:27pm

re: #302 windsagio

Calling him antisemitic (or calling critics of Israeli policy antisemitic) is a way to try to shut people up. I think it bugs me so much because its goddamn bullying.

I hate bullies.

Well, the neighborhood bully, he’s just one man
His enemies say he’s on their land
They got him outnumbered about a million to one
He got no place to escape to, no place to run
He’s the neighborhood bully

The neighborhood bully just lives to survive
He’s criticized and condemned for being alive
He’s not supposed to fight back, he’s supposed to have thick skin
He’s supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in
He’s the neighborhood bully

The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land
He’s wandered the earth an exiled man
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn
He’s always on trial for just being born
He’s the neighborhood bully

Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized
Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad
The bombs were meant for him. He was supposed to feel bad
He’s the neighborhood bully

Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
That he’ll live by the rules that the world makes for him
’Cause there’s a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac
He’s the neighborhood bully

He got no allies to really speak of
What he gets he must pay for, he don’t get it out of love
He buys obsolete weapons and he won’t be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side
He’s the neighborhood bully

Well, he’s surrounded by pacifists who all want peace
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease
Now, they wouldn’t hurt a fly. To hurt one they would weep
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep
He’s the neighborhood bully

Every empire that’s enslaved him is gone
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon
He’s made a garden of paradise in the desert sand
In bed with nobody, under no one’s command
He’s the neighborhood bully

Now his holiest books have been trampled upon
No contract he signed was worth what it was written on
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health
He’s the neighborhood bully

What’s anybody indebted to him for?
Nothin’, they say. He just likes to cause war
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed
They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed
He’s the neighborhood bully

What has he done to wear so many scars?
Does he change the course of rivers? Does he pollute the moon and stars?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill
Running out the clock, time standing still
Neighborhood bully

Copyright © 1983 by Special Rider Music (Bob Dylan)

313 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:31:45pm

re: #305 Walter L. Newton

To make the point, I got annoyed and am defending Carter again (sorta).

I don't know what compels me to do that. I suspect heavy metal poisoning.

314 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:32:00pm

I like President Carter. If Reagan had not dismantled Carter's energy plan, the US would be in a better spot today. I have been turning the water off when I brush my teeth, plus the other energy conserving suggestions that my liberal mama told me to do. She learned that from President Carter.

315 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:32:11pm

re: #311 Walter L. Newton

I think the crowd's got this one Walter :D

316 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:32:13pm

re: #302 windsagio

Calling him antisemitic (or calling critics of Israeli policy antisemitic) is a way to try to shut people up. I think it bugs me so much because its goddamn bullying.

I hate bullies.

That is not my intent at all. My intent is to be truthful. He should be allowed to talk as much as he wants, just as I should be allowed to call a spade a spade.

317 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:32:20pm

re: #301 JasonA

I'll try this one more time.

Blowing up a ship full of people that doesn't need to be blown up is a bad thing. These aren't warships and there are other options on the table.

You don't know that. How many times has tons of weapons been discovered on ships headed to Gaza? I think it's time to make an example of these SOBs.

318 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:32:29pm

re: #301 JasonA

I'll try this one more time.

Blowing up a ship full of people that doesn't need to be blown up is a bad thing. These aren't warships and there are other options on the table.

I will say this one more time.

They are committing acts of war.

They do not need to be sank. That is up to them. Clearly announce the consequences ahead of time. Let them know you mean it. Give them a chance to evacuate the ship. If they turn back they do not die. If they press forward, it is suicide on their part. Publicly say it was their choice and this is not a game and that Israel will not allow genocidal terrorist governments to be armed from the sea.

Now I know that Israel will not do this. I know that they are too concerned about the PR fall out and will once again, like a battered wife or abused lapdog do what they can to please the opinions of other nations who cynically manipulate the situation.

That said, they announce that they are not going in with paint balls this time, if the people on board become violent, they will be shot.

319 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:32:38pm

re: #313 windsagio

To make the point, I got annoyed and am defending Carter again (sorta).

I don't know what compels me to do that. I suspect heavy metal poisoning.

You're WHAT! Well... ok... there's a few good things I like about Jimmy Carter... he's got a neat accent.

320 mich-again  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:32:48pm

re: #309 JasonA

Its not a minor difference.

321 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:32:59pm

re: #302 windsagio

Calling him antisemitic (or calling critics of Israeli policy antisemitic) is a way to try to shut people up. I think it bugs me so much because its goddamn bullying.

I hate bullies.

“In my opinion, Netanyahu brought up several obstacles to peace in his speech that others before him have not placed. He insists on settlement expansion and demands that the Palestinians recognize Israel as a Jewish state, even though 20% of Israel’s citizens are not Jewish.
Israel’s right to exist is an obstacle to peace
"

So, in Jimmy Carter’s world, Israel’s daring to insist that it be recognized as the Jewish homeland—only the very reason why it exists and the historical basis for it—cannot be allowed. It is the obstacle to peace, not the Arabs’ refusal to accept it.

322 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:33:04pm
323 captdiggs  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:33:20pm

re: #307 Gus 802

I'm not playing semantic games. Try google. You'll find hundreds of articles on the deterioration of US-Israeli relations during the last 16 months.

324 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:33:25pm

re: #318 ludwigvanquixote

The problem is, Israel can't afford a real war with Turkey.

325 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:33:30pm

re: #302 windsagio

Calling him antisemitic (or calling critics of Israeli policy antisemitic) is a way to try to shut people up. I think it bugs me so much because its goddamn bullying.

I hate bullies.

Fuck Carter. He's a clear anti-semite. Always has been, always will be.

326 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:33:34pm

re: #315 windsagio

I think the crowd's got this one Walter :D

Ok... I may just watch the show or go to bed... I got my money on you, don't disappoint me.

327 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:33:36pm

re: #312 Alouette

I have that album around here somewhere...:D

328 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:33:57pm

re: #316 Aceofwhat?

I think it bleeds over.

Certain memes get repeated over and over until they take on a life of their own. Carter on LGF is case-in-point.

329 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:34:19pm

re: #326 Walter L. Newton

We can argue about something else!

I miss sparring with you, with you working so much lately :D

330 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:34:20pm

re: #314 prairiefire

I like President Carter. If Reagan had not dismantled Carter's energy plan, the US would be in a better spot today. I have been turning the water off when I brush my teeth, plus the other energy conserving suggestions that my liberal mama told me to do. She learned that from President Carter.

I don't want to spoil your picnic, dear lady, but plenty of us conservatives do the exact same things;)

331 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:34:55pm

re: #300 windsagio

Which proves what, exactly? That one can lose their temper when someone so obviously calls another a Crypto-Nazi in an effort to push buttons?

332 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:34:56pm

re: #328 windsagio

I think it bleeds over.

Certain memes get repeated over and over until they take on a life of their own. Carter on LGF is case-in-point.

So Carter being percieved as an Anti-Semite is an LGF thing, and spread out from here!

mmmkkkaaayyy!

333 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:35:05pm

re: #290 windsagio

"Mr. Buckley, as he so often was, was Full of shit."

Forgive the error.

A 1957 editorial written by Buckley, "Why the South Must Prevail" (National Review, 8/24/57), cited the "cultural superiority of white over Negro" in explaining why whites were "entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail, politically and culturally, in areas where [they do] not predominate numerically." Appearing on NPR’s Fresh Air in 1989 (rebroadcast 2/28/08), he stood by the passage. "Well, I think that's absolutely correct," Buckley told host Terry Gross when she read it back to him.

"General Franco is an authentic national hero"

To be sure, these isolated quotes don't do justice to Buckley. But it's strange that so many consider him to have been some sort of enlightened being.

334 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:35:34pm

re: #257 mich-again

If Israel's Arab neighbors actually gave a crap about the plight of the Palestinians, they wouldn't still be living in refugee camps in those neighboring countries.

It's not about "giving a crap", it's about a cold political calculation that keeps the Palestinians in refugee limbo indefinitely as a way to (supposedly) maintain some sort of right or claim of return. Once the refugees are settled and nationalized, the Arab thinking is that the right of return is effectively off the table even as a tool of compromise. Clearly this is not something that is forced on the Palestinians by the Arab countries, the refugges are aware of it and complicit in it.

335 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:35:50pm

re: #323 captdiggs

I'm not playing semantic games. Try google. You'll find hundreds of articles on the deterioration of US-Israeli relations during the last 16 months.

I don't need to Google that. I'm fully aware of the deterioration of relations because of the settlement issue. I'm merely pointing out that it is in error to say that it has led to a diplomatic break. As Cato would say, language matters no?

336 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:35:59pm

re: #330 Aceofwhat?

I don't want to spoil your picnic, dear lady, but plenty of us conservatives do the exact same things;)

Great! it is better to conserve than not conserve at all.

337 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:36:14pm

re: #319 Walter L. Newton

You're WHAT! Well... ok... there's a few good things I like about Jimmy Carter... he's got a neat accent.

And nice teeth!

338 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:36:16pm

re: #291 Slumbering Behemoth

Buckley was a tool? Really? Care to illustrate how you've come to that conclusion?

I'm going to say something I normally would not say: There is a time for muscular and visible action, this is not it. The current situation with Turkey added to the Middle East mix calls more for quiet diplomacy from Obama. He's trying to prevent a breech between the US and Turkey. He may fail in that goal, but the goal is worthy if he remains committed to Israel's security. Thankfully, I think he is so committed.

339 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:36:48pm

re: #330 Aceofwhat?

To be honest I tend to like Carter because he actually believed in things. He made decisions morally, even if they didn't work (like not wanting to have any trade with the USSR over human rights, or refusing to negotiate with terrorists).

The sad thing is it didn't work, because the president of hte US kind of can't work that way.

340 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:36:59pm

re: #324 windsagio

The problem is, Israel can't afford a real war with Turkey.

What?

341 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:37:09pm

re: #314 prairiefire

I like President Carter. If Reagan had not dismantled Carter's energy plan, the US would be in a better spot today. I have been turning the water off when I brush my teeth, plus the other energy conserving suggestions that my liberal mama told me to do. She learned that from President Carter.

What energy plan was dismantled? Seriously.

This Time article from 1978 goes on about his efforts to switch from natural gas to of all things coal!

So he espoused conservation efforts. Did Reagan come along and set up wasteful energy programs?

342 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:37:11pm

re: #328 windsagio

I think it bleeds over.

Certain memes get repeated over and over until they take on a life of their own. Carter on LGF is case-in-point.

saying that the item is tiresome is different than saying it is untrue.

Carter on LGF may be tiresome, in your eyes. But that does not require us to excuse his antisemitism.

343 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:37:25pm

re: #264 The Shadow Do

Good evening. I am glad to see that Joe is saying what ought to be said. I would love to hear it from the President but I believe I understand. To a large segment of the left, mostly the young or the full on liberal pundit class, Biden can be dismissed as just that old Joe guy, God love him. And I do think the Palestinian apologists are growing at a quick clip among the generation that has been schooled in the last 10-15 years sadly. I see a generational difference in the perceptions regarding the conflict - again just a personal observation. This is a statement Obama will be careful not to fully own though it is obviously endorsed. This is not a criticism by the way, just an observation. He has disappointed enough of his early supporters already.

Bush didn't mince words early in his administration. That wasn't well received so he calmed it down. At the time, I thought he was crazy with his Axis of Evil and that this isn't the way to sway hearts and minds. Then I started reading Natan Sharansky, a man I greatly admire. He talked about the importance of calling out immoral, fear based societies, Communism, Fascism, Hamasism... and by doing so, you lay a groundwork of intolerance. Sharansky believes that world pressure can bring a society down without firing one bullet and points to the fall of the soviet union as proof. So maybe "rhetoric" and a strong voice is important after all.

I loved Biden's speech. It was excellent and reflects the administration's feelings, but I would have liked Obama to have said it too. Maybe in another time and place it wouldn't have seemed so important.

344 ShaunP  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:37:29pm

re: #302 windsagio

Calling him antisemitic (or calling critics of Israeli policy antisemitic) is a way to try to shut people up. I think it bugs me so much because its goddamn bullying.

I hate bullies.

With the sheer volume of "racist" tags thrown around in the past two years; it's disingenuous to take general issue with "antisemitic". Especially when it is apt...

345 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:37:51pm

re: #324 windsagio

I read him as referring to the Palis on the fooltilla, not Turkey. After all there will be no escort.

346 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:38:05pm

re: #342 Aceofwhat?

Its tiresome and untrue tho'!

347 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:38:26pm

I liked the Government cheese. Peace between Israel and Egypt wasn't bad either.

348 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:38:30pm

re: #302 windsagio

Calling him antisemitic (or calling critics of Israeli policy antisemitic) is a way to try to shut people up. I think it bugs me so much because its goddamn bullying.

I hate bullies.

I am really behind in the thread.

But yes, this is so true.

It's the broad brush that everyone here rails against.

349 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:38:34pm

re: #331 Slumbering Behemoth

Which proves what, exactly? That one can lose their temper when someone so obviously calls another a Crypto-Nazi in an effort to push buttons?

Buckley vs. Vidal!

350 MisterCookie  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:39:09pm

re: #314 prairiefire

You needed the President to tell you that turning off stuff you don't need is a good idea? You'd think the utility bills would do a good enough job of convincing you of that.

351 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:39:39pm

James Earl Carter, the 39th president of the United States of America, is a Jew-hating bastard.

352 captdiggs  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:39:48pm

re: #335 Gus 802

I don't need to Google that. I'm fully aware of the deterioration of relations because of the settlement issue. I'm merely pointing out that it is in error to say that it has led to a diplomatic break. As Cato would say, language matters no?

It's a lot more than just building in Jerusalem.
That's why I recommended the article search.

353 mich-again  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:39:54pm

re: #334 tommysilver

Clearly this is not something that is forced on the Palestinians by the Arab countries, the refugges are aware of it and complicit in it.

I'm not so sure about that. Maybe some are willfull pawns. But to say they all choose to spend their entire lives like that seems a bit of a stretch.

354 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:39:57pm

re: #345 Rightwingconspirator

Turkey considers the boats theirs tho', no?

355 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:40:47pm

re: #350 MisterCookie

You needed the President to tell you that turning off stuff you don't need is a good idea? You'd think the utility bills would do a good enough job of convincing you of that.

Depends on what percentage of your income goes to pay the light bill.

356 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:40:55pm

re: #334 tommysilver

It's not about "giving a crap", it's about a cold political calculation that keeps the Palestinians in refugee limbo indefinitely as a way to (supposedly) maintain some sort of right or claim of return. Once the refugees are settled and nationalized, the Arab thinking is that the right of return is effectively off the table even as a tool of compromise. Clearly this is not something that is forced on the Palestinians by the Arab countries, the refugges are aware of it and complicit in it.

The refugees really are pawns. How can an entire people live multiple generations as "refugees"? Refugees from where? That's right, from Israel--hence the ongoing demand for "right of return". The vast majority of "refugees" are demanding the right to return home to a land that is foreign to them. And all the Arab governments ensure no Palestinians can easily integrate into their countries.

357 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:40:59pm

re: #302 windsagio

Calling him antisemitic (or calling critics of Israeli policy antisemitic) is a way to try to shut people up. I think it bugs me so much because its goddamn bullying.

I hate bullies.

Yet you ally with them. The Jews are outnumbered 1,000 to one, and are not only under attack in their tiny homeland from vast lands they were driven out of, they are under attack throughout "Europe" and even at universities and academic settings.

Most of the global media is now engaged in a hate fest, in celebration of bullies who attacked the Jews with iron pipes. Turkey is bullying Israel, soon the UN will bully Israel. Ireland is bullying Israel. Iran is bullying Israel. This is a country the size of New Jersey.

Yet you come to one of the few sensible places on the internet, flaunt an endless stream - bordering on spam - that is a more anti-Israel stance than the vile media, and you cry about being bullied? Trolls always get bullied. Even cute giggly ones that we like. ~~~`

358 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:40:59pm

re: #352 captdiggs

It's a lot more than just building in Jerusalem.
That's why I recommended the article search.

I know. It's the Cairo speech. It's not visiting Israel when he went to give the Cairo speech. And so on.

359 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:41:20pm

re: #351 MandyManners

And you'd totally know bigotry! (I couldn't say racism because 'Islam is not a race')

360 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:41:26pm

re: #314 prairiefire

I like President Carter. If Reagan had not dismantled Carter's energy plan, the US would be in a better spot today. I have been turning the water off when I brush my teeth, plus the other energy conserving suggestions that my liberal mama told me to do. She learned that from President Carter.

Yeah.

361 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:41:57pm

re: #338 Dark_Falcon

I'm going to say something I normally would not say: There is a time for muscular and visible action, this is not it. The current situation with Turkey added to the Middle East mix calls more for quiet diplomacy from Obama. He's trying to prevent a breech between the US and Turkey. He may fail in that goal, but the goal is worthy if he remains committed to Israel's security. Thankfully, I think he is so committed.

Well said.

362 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:42:12pm

Fox was the only MFM source to cover Prime Minister Netanyahu's press conference today.

MSNBC did not.

CNN did not.

363 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:42:25pm

re: #328 windsagio

I think it bleeds over.

Certain memes get repeated over and over until they take on a life of their own. Carter on LGF is case-in-point.

The widely held characterization of Jimmah Carter as an anti-Semite is well-deserved and hardly unique to LGF.

364 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:42:25pm

re: #357 Bagua

I'm not against Israel, or for the Palestinians, but rather saying that people are slurring a man because they disagree with him.

365 jaunte  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:42:27pm

re: #351 MandyManners
Some detail:

To be comprehensive, 12 countries (plus England, Scotland, and 17 Swiss Cantons) recognize Christianity as their state religion, and Buddhism is the official state religion in three. Carter has never made a peep about any of the 42 countries with an official state religion. He certainly never complained to his Saudi allies or the Jordanians because they prohibit Jews from residing in their countries.

Yet, Carter has seen fit to call Israel’s desire to be recognized as the historical Jewish homeland it is as “an obstacle to peace.” This despite the fact Israel allows free practice of all religions, unlike most of the 27 Islamic nations including Saudi Arabia which makes any religious expression other than Islam a crime.
[Link: www.canadafreepress.com...]

366 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:42:55pm

re: #362 MandyManners

Antisemitic MSM, right?

367 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:43:22pm

re: #362 MandyManners

That's not true.

368 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:43:38pm

re: #333 Nimed

To be sure, these isolated quotes don't do justice to Buckley. But it's strange that so many consider him to have been some sort of enlightened being.

Nah, dude later regretted his racial positions.

369 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:43:45pm

re: #318 ludwigvanquixote

Wait. I want to backtrack a minute. Is this what you had in mind when you wanted the US to get involved in this? You weren't suggesting that the US Navy sink these ships, were you? Even if you weren't, how would you feel about us doing that?

370 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:43:47pm

re: #363 Spare O'Lake

Oh don't get me wrong. The idea's out there.

It seems more prevalent from here because of the particular lens our culture has on the subject.

371 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:43:57pm

re: #351 MandyManners

James Earl Carter, the 39th president of the United States of America, is a Jew-hating bastard.

So soft spoken you are, Mandy ! Speak up lest people do not hear what you have to say :0

372 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:44:06pm

re: #322 MandyManners

Yo, you go, Joe.


[Video]

Mandy, Joe does not drink That is a smear election (2008) video.

Discredit = fail

373 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:44:12pm

re: #368 Aceofwhat?

Didn't help...

(wait for it)


Robert Byrd!!!

374 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:44:18pm

re: #338 Dark_Falcon

I'm going to say something I normally would not say: There is a time for muscular and visible action, this is not it. The current situation with Turkey added to the Middle East mix calls more for quiet diplomacy from Obama. He's trying to prevent a breech between the US and Turkey. He may fail in that goal, but the goal is worthy if he remains committed to Israel's security. Thankfully, I think he is so committed.

O.O

375 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:44:37pm

re: #341 BryanS

President cCrter's ideas:[Link: www.pbs.org...]

President Reagan's ideas:[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

376 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:44:42pm

re: #364 windsagio

I'm not against Israel, or for the Palestinians, but rather saying that people are slurring a man because they disagree with him.

If the shoe fits...

Fuck Carter.

377 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:44:53pm

re: #359 windsagio

And you'd totally know bigotry! (I couldn't say racism because 'Islam is not a race')

What?

378 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:44:55pm

re: #314 prairiefire

I like President Carter. If Reagan had not dismantled Carter's energy plan, the US would be in a better spot today. I have been turning the water off when I brush my teeth, plus the other energy conserving suggestions that my liberal mama told me to do. She learned that from President Carter.

Carter's administration pushed through all this fantastic research for safe car technology, that got dismantled and discarded by the Reagan administration.

379 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:45:00pm

re: #339 windsagio

To be honest I tend to like Carter because he actually believed in things. He made decisions morally, even if they didn't work (like not wanting to have any trade with the USSR over human rights, or refusing to negotiate with terrorists).

The sad thing is it didn't work, because the president of hte US kind of can't work that way.

Yeah, ok, but now he's siding with the terrorists.

That's what i don't get about your position...

380 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:45:05pm

I find it interesting that those that celebrate the Carter presidency ignore his involvement in what led to the disaster in East Timor. They also ignore his ties to Anastasio Somoza, and Ferdinand Marcos.

381 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:45:23pm

re: #376 NJDhockeyfan

I envy you guys (and ladies) your absolute certainty of your rightness.

382 mich-again  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:45:39pm

I might be more convinced that the Israel's Arab neighbors really cared about the plight of the Palestinians if they showed even a fraction of that same concern for Arabs living as 3rd class citizens in the Khuzestan Province of Iran where living conditions are far worse than even Gaza.

383 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:45:46pm

re: #354 windsagio

Private cargo ship. Not like a Turkish Naval vessel.

384 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:45:58pm

re: #377 MandyManners

What?

ISLAM IS NOT A RACEISLAM IS NOT A RACEISLAM IS NOT A RACEISLAM IS NOT A RACE

385 blueraven  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:46:08pm

re: #102 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Mark it down y'all. June 2, 2010.

The day Biden didn't fuck it up.

I guess he fucked up at the touching service at Arlington on Monday. Jeez some people carry this Biden gaffe thing a bit too far.

386 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:46:10pm

re: #339 windsagio

To be honest I tend to like Carter because he actually believed in things. He made decisions morally, even if they didn't work (like not wanting to have any trade with the USSR over human rights, or refusing to negotiate with terrorists).

The sad thing is it didn't work, because the president of hte US kind of can't work that way.

And now I'm going to surprise you about something. His moral foundation is also what motivates his anti-semitism. He is a very typical back-wood, deep fried baptist (who just left the more moderate Southern Baptist Convention) who sees Israel as the people who missed the boat. He is a believer in supersessionism, that Christians are the inheritors of the New Covenant, and Jews have lost that position in G-ds plan for man.

So, it's not much of a step for him to paint Israel as wayward and stubborn. It's the very moral teaching that he has received that informs and molds his anti-semitism.

Many fundamentalist Christians sees the modern state of Israel more as a sign of the end times, not so much as a refuge for the Jewish people.

387 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:46:26pm

re: #377 MandyManners

You're a bigot.

388 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:46:30pm

re: #364 windsagio

I'm not against Israel, or for the Palestinians, but rather saying that people are slurring a man because they disagree with him.

I'm stunned.

389 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:47:01pm

re: #280 Bagua

The IRA training FARC in Colombia is pure propagandist bunk. It is based on unsubstantiated rumors and hearsay carried in opinion pieces found in certain newspapers that cater to anti-Chavez elements. Not that it's impossible, only that the source of the hearsay is not objective.

The kinship between the Irish and Palestinians is that both believe they are religious victims of an occupation and yes the terrorist ties go back to the 60s and 70s as do ties between the PLO and terrorists in Italy (Red Brigades), Spain (ETA), Germany (Baader-Meinhof Gang) and elsewhere in Europe.

390 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:47:23pm

re: #386 Walter L. Newton

At least he's not for them for that reason... that always creeped me out.

391 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:47:47pm

Richard Cohen on Carter vs Reagan:[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

392 mich-again  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:48:05pm

re: #351 MandyManners

James Earl Carter, the 39th president of the United States of America, is a Jew-hating bastard.

Not to get too nit-picky here, but I believe he was officially inaugurated as Jimmy Carter. Calling him James Earl Carter gives him a false air of respectability. He'll always be just a Jimmy.

393 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:48:08pm

re: #348 Stanley Sea

I am really behind in the thread.

But yes, this is so true.

It's the broad brush that everyone here rails against.

Hey there! Did you see #211? It's my definition of the brush...

394 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:48:11pm

re: #364 windsagio

I'm not against Israel, or for the Palestinians, but rather saying that people are slurring a man because they disagree with him.

Apparently, some people just can't resist throwing around the anti-Israel slur to anyone who disagrees with them.

395 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:48:20pm

re: #386 Walter L. Newton

Wait...

I think I learned something.

396 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:48:43pm

re: #356 BryanS

The refugees really are pawns. How can an entire people live multiple generations as "refugees"? Refugees from where? That's right, from Israel--hence the ongoing demand for "right of return". The vast majority of "refugees" are demanding the right to return home to a land that is foreign to them. And all the Arab governments ensure no Palestinians can easily integrate into their countries.

UNRWA, Where is the Money Going? (March 2009)

[Link: cgis.jpost.com...]

In recent years, billions of dollars have poured into Gaza from hundreds of countries and international organizations. How much of that money has actually reached Palestinian civilians, effectively improving their quality of life and economy, has yet to be completely determined, thanks to vague audits and on-line information.
...
At an Egyptian donors' conference organized by Norway and Egypt in early March, more than 75 international donors and organizations met to announce their financial support of the reconstruction in Gaza. Over $5.2 billion were pledged at the conference, surprising the Palestinian Authority, which had originally called for $2.8 billion.

and this

The almost 2 million Palestinian refugees in Jordan have Jordanian citizenship and are fully eligible for government services, but are continuing to receive UNRWA assistance as the agency regards them as refugees, according to Lindsay's report.

There is no reason on heaven or earth why these people are refugees.

397 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:48:51pm

re: #371 BryanS

So soft spoken you are, Mandy ! Speak up lest people do not hear what you have to say :0

Thank you, bryan.

398 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:48:54pm

re: #368 Aceofwhat?

Nah, dude later regretted his racial positions.

If only what was good for Buckley was also good for Byrd :P

399 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:49:15pm

re: #50 NJDhockeyfan

Apologies if this has been posted...

Danish report from Gaza: "Where's the humanitarian crisis?"

"God dammnit, I came here to see a humanitarian crisis! I was promised a humanitarian crisis of epic proportions! I am not leaving this place until someone shows me a damn humanitarian crisis! A good one!"

400 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:49:49pm

re: #399 SanFranciscoZionist

You need to get off at the "Darfour" exit.

401 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:49:51pm

re: #374 JasonA

O.O

What does that mean?

402 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:50:01pm

re: #386 Walter L. Newton

Moderate Southern Baptist Convention?? Seriously? Where did Carter go that is less moderate that the SBC?

403 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:50:07pm

re: #380 Gus 802

I find it interesting that those that celebrate the Carter presidency ignore his involvement in what led to the disaster in East Timor. They also ignore his ties to Anastasio Somoza, and Ferdinand Marcos.

Throw in a heaping spoonful of anti-Semitism.... and what's not to like??

404 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:50:14pm

re: #390 windsagio

At least he's not for them for that reason... that always creeped me out.

So, you ignore and or miss my point totally. You are certainly being stubborn on purpose... you're smarter than that... yet you punt and make a fool out of yourself...

As I said, Caters whole religious background form and informs him of his anti-semitism... and you consider that good because he's managed to take some moral instruction to heart.

Gads?

405 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:50:27pm

re: #372 Stanley Sea

Mandy, Joe does not drink That is a smear election (2008) video.

Discredit = fail


What?

406 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:50:30pm

re: #401 Dark_Falcon

What does that mean?

That means you and I see eye to eye and my mind ground to a halt for three seconds.

407 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:50:33pm

re: #375 prairiefire

President cCrter's ideas:[Link: www.pbs.org...]

President Reagan's ideas:[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Yeah. Coal was his plan. Sure he pushed renewable energy, but at a time that the technology was not anywhere near anything economical.

Today by contrast, there has been so much technological development on renewables because of our R&D capabilities of Silicon Valley. I was actually hoping the "stimulus" plan would have had significant spending on renewable energy programs, but it was just a bunch of pork.

408 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:50:35pm

re: #398 WindUpBird

If only what was good for Buckley was also good for Byrd :P

It absolutely should be. Let me know when you need me to remind a conservative, and i'll be there!

409 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:51:30pm

SFZ slowly working her way down from the top.

410 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:51:36pm

re: #402 prairiefire

Moderate Southern Baptist Convention?? Seriously? Where did Carter go that is less moderate that the SBC?

I was saying that the SBC is generally moderate, compared to hard-core fundamentalist sects... I don't know where he went... he left the SBC last year.

411 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:51:38pm

re: #383 Rightwingconspirator

Private cargo ship. Not like a Turkish Naval vessel.

And the Rachel Corrie is not a Turkish ship, she's out of Ireland. Israel should tell Turkey to mind its own business.

412 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:51:43pm

Southern Baptists apologize for slavery in 2009.[Link: www.npr.org...]

413 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:51:51pm

Appropriate, me thinks.

414 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:52:07pm

re: #381 windsagio

I envy you guys (and ladies) your absolute certainty of your rightness.


No debate.

415 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:52:11pm

re: #407 BryanS

I was actually hoping the "stimulus" plan would have had significant spending on renewable energy programs, but it was just a bunch of pork.

Me too, exactly.

416 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:52:16pm

The Real Jimmy Carter
By: Alan M. Dershowitz

I have known Jimmy Carter for years. I first met him in the spring of 1976 when, as a relatively unknown candidate for president, he sent me a handwritten letter asking for my help in his campaign on issues of crime and justice. I had just published an article in The New York Times Magazine on sentencing reform, and he expressed interest in my ideas and asked me to come up with additional ones for his campaign. Shortly thereafter, my former student, Stuart Eisenstadt, brought Carter to Harvard to meet with some faculty members, me among them. I immediately liked Jimmy Carter and saw him as a man of integrity and principle. I signed on to his campaign and worked very hard for his election.

When Newsweek magazine asked his campaign for the names of people on whom Carter relied for advice, my name was among those given out. I continued to work for Carter over the years, most recently I met him in Jerusalem a year ago, and we briefly discussed the Mid-East. Though I disagreed with some of his points, I continued to believe that he was making them out of a deep commitment to principle and to human rights.

Recent disclosures of Carter's extensive financial connections to Arab oil money, particularly from Saudi Arabia, had deeply shaken my belief in his integrity. When I was first told that he received a monetary reward in the name of Shiekh Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahayan, and kept the money, even after Harvard returned money from the same source because of its anti-Semitic history, I simply did not believe it. How could a man of such apparent integrity enrich himself with dirty money from so dirty a source?

...If money determines political and public views as Carter insists "Jewish money" does, Carter's views on the Middle East must be deemed to have been influenced by the vast sums of Arab money he has received. If he who pays the piper calls the tune, then Carter's off-key tunes have been called by his Saudi Arabian paymasters. It pains me to say this, but I now believe that there is no person in American public life today who has a lower ratio of real to apparent integrity than Jimmy Carter. The public perception of his integrity is extraordinarily high. His real integrity, it now turns out, is extraordinarily low. He is no better than so many former American politicians who, after leaving public life, sell themselves to the highest bidder and become lobbyists for despicable causes. That is now Jimmy Carter's sad legacy.

417 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:52:19pm

re: #406 JasonA

That means you and I see eye to eye and my mind ground to a halt for three seconds.

Very cool, thanks.

418 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:52:31pm

re: #373 windsagio

Well we have seen the racism accusation against some hyper partisan critics of Obama. Is the antisemitic charge against Carter any more a a bullying tactic? Perhaps not.

419 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:52:36pm

re: #368 Aceofwhat?

Nah, dude later regretted his racial positions.

That's true, and he was pretty clear that he considered his early stance on civil rights to be his largest ideological mistake.

He does deserve a lot of credit for that.

420 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:52:38pm

re: #404 Walter L. Newton

Well to be honest. I'm not sure A leads to B. There are a few jumps of logic that you have to take for your assumption to work, and they're far from sure-fire.

I figured I'd take something that we COULD agree on >

421 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:52:45pm

re: #403 marjoriemoon

Throw in a heaping spoonful of anti-Semitism... and what's not to like??

Ok well he DID make an oz of pot legal.... but then the Congress killed his buzz.

422 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:52:50pm

re: #409 Alouette

SFZ slowly working her way down from the top.

i enjoy her diligence

423 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:53:06pm

re: #369 JasonA

Wait. I want to backtrack a minute. Is this what you had in mind when you wanted the US to get involved in this? You weren't suggesting that the US Navy sink these ships, were you? Even if you weren't, how would you feel about us doing that?

If you run a blockade, you invite the blockading navy to sink you.

If the US were to help in the blockade I would expect them to run blockades the way we usually do - as in shots across the bough followed by a large amount of the Capitan saying we will use deadly force, this is your final warning, followed by sinking the assholes or seizing the vessel by force.

I want Israel to be treated fairly and given the oppurtunity to run military operations the way everyone else does it.

I want Israel to say enough is enough and realize that they are not going to make friends with those who want them destroyed by endless half measures. Since this is actually a life or death game here, playing to win inevitably means killing enemies. I want it clear that these bastards are enemies of Israel. I want it clear that they are supporting a genocidal regime and the larger power play to destroy Israel. I want it clear that Israel will not lie down. I want the bullies of the world to get a black eye - one that stings and makes them think twice.

424 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:53:17pm

re: #387 windsagio

You're a bigot.

Concur

425 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:53:32pm

I love how the blind partisanship batfuck crazy in this thread goes so far as to smear of a guy who doesn't drink as an alcoholic, in a thread about how he defended Israel unequivocally.

Man alive. There really just is no good deed gone unpunished, is there?

426 ShaunP  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:53:41pm

re: #422 Aceofwhat?

i enjoy her diligence

Definitely more dedication than I can claim...

427 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:53:54pm

re: #389 tommysilver

The IRA training FARC in Colombia is pure propagandist bunk. It is based on unsubstantiated rumors and hearsay carried in opinion pieces found in certain newspapers that cater to anti-Chavez elements. Not that it's impossible, only that the source of the hearsay is not objective.

The kinship between the Irish and Palestinians is that both believe they are religious victims of an occupation and yes the terrorist ties go back to the 60s and 70s as do ties between the PLO and terrorists in Italy (Red Brigades), Spain (ETA), Germany (Baader-Meinhof Gang) and elsewhere in Europe.

Regarding the IRA and FARC. It wasn't hearsay:

In 2001, three members of the Irish Republican Army (IRA) were arrested in Colombia for collaborating with the FARC. The three men were charged with travelling on false passports and providing the FARC with weapons instruction.

[Link: www.justice.gov...]

Same incident:

Three Irish Republican Army (IRA) members awaiting final sentencing for training the FARC on IRA bomb tactics fled Colombian parole and resurfaced in Ireland in August. They were detained and questioned by the Irish national police but released without charge. The Colombian Government requested their extradition. Ireland does not have an extradition treaty with Colombia, but the case remains under review. The Irish Director of Public Prosecutions is investigating whether charges can be brought against one of the three for traveling on a false passport.

[Link: www.state.gov...]

428 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:54:17pm

re: #380 Gus 802

I find it interesting that those that celebrate the Carter presidency ignore his involvement in what led to the disaster in East Timor. They also ignore his ties to Anastasio Somoza, and Ferdinand Marcos.

Well those were the nice fascists.

429 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:54:21pm

re: #410 Walter L. Newton

I don't think he went to a more hard core rightie division of Christianity.[Link: www.adherents.com...]

430 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:54:30pm

re: #418 Rightwingconspirator

Good point.

The difference is that alot of the racial criticism per Obama has some defininte real cultural background in the US.

I don't see that so much per Carter.

It would be different if we were talking about a Palestinian or an Iranian.

431 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:55:03pm

re: #423 ludwigvanquixote

They aren't going to sink the ship. I'll bet you... something... I don't know quite what! But that's not going to happen.

432 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:55:16pm

re: #419 Nimed

That's true, and he was pretty clear that he considered his early stance on civil rights to be his largest ideological mistake.

He does deserve a lot of credit for that.

and i literally read nothing of his from that time. nothing. it's tainted.

433 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:55:26pm

re: #364 windsagio

I'm not against Israel, or for the Palestinians, but rather saying that people are slurring a man because they disagree with him.

I know, you love everybody. re: #389 tommysilver

The IRA training FARC in Colombia is pure propagandist bunk. It is based on unsubstantiated rumors and hearsay carried in opinion pieces found in certain newspapers that cater to anti-Chavez elements. Not that it's impossible, only that the source of the hearsay is not objective.

The kinship between the Irish and Palestinians is that both believe they are religious victims of an occupation and yes the terrorist ties go back to the 60s and 70s as do ties between the PLO and terrorists in Italy (Red Brigades), Spain (ETA), Germany (Baader-Meinhof Gang) and elsewhere in Europe.

I don't know about the FARC allegation, I just grabbed a quick link. Also that was written in 2002 so it could be stale on some things. Thanks for pointing that out. But the rest of your post acknowledges the PLO terrorist ties which is my point.

434 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:55:37pm

re: #423 ludwigvanquixote

PIMF

If you run a blockade, you invite the blockading navy to sink you.

If the US were to help in the blockade I would expect them to run blockades the way we usually do - as in shots across the bow followed by a large amount of the Capitan saying we will use deadly force, this is your final warning, followed by sinking the assholes or seizing the vessel by force.

I want Israel to be treated fairly and given the oppurtunity to run military operations the way everyone else does it.

I want Israel to say enough is enough and realize that they are not going to make friends with those who want them destroyed by endless half measures. Since this is actually a life or death game here, playing to win inevitably means killing enemies. I want it clear that these bastards are enemies of Israel. I want it clear that they are supporting a genocidal regime and the larger power play to destroy Israel. I want it clear that Israel will not lie down. I want the bullies of the world to get a black eye - one that stings and makes them think twice.

435 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:55:37pm

re: #393 Aceofwhat?

Hey there! Did you see #211? It's my definition of the brush...

No! And I'm not going back!

Upding because I know you make a good point.

436 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:55:44pm

re: #425 WindUpBird

Good point.

437 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:55:49pm

That's just not even good internet. When someone can in real time, totally dismantle your smear with one google search, that's like pulling out your goalie and leaving the net wide open!

438 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:55:49pm

re: #409 Alouette

SFZ slowly working her way down from the top.

Go, go teacher!

439 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:55:53pm

re: #420 windsagio

Well to be honest. I'm not sure A leads to B. There are a few jumps of logic that you have to take for your assumption to work, and they're far from sure-fire.

I figured I'd take something that we COULD agree on >

Then don't believe me... I'm a professional "religionist" I know what I am talking about... that's why you always see me arguing the nuances of Christianity here on LGF, because it's not as black and white as some want to make it, and I know the differences and the little tweeks that makes the clever theological twists and turns...

Ignore me... I don't fucking care.

440 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:56:17pm

re: #421 marjoriemoon

Ok well he DID make an oz of pot legal... but then the Congress killed his buzz.

"I treated the Congress like I treated the Georgia legislature, and they treated me like a governor of Georgia." - Jimmy Carter.

Carter got overruled at least in part because he could not handle the Congress.

441 ShaunP  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:56:33pm

re: #430 windsagio

Good point.

The difference is that alot of the racial criticism per Obama has some defininte real cultural background in the US.

I don't see that so much per Carter.

It would be different if we were talking about a Palestinian or an Iranian.

Muslims don't solely own antisemitism...

442 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:56:47pm

re: #425 WindUpBird

I love how the blind partisanship batfuck crazy in this thread goes so far as to smear of a guy who doesn't drink as an alcoholic, in a thread about how he defended Israel unequivocally.

Man alive. There really just is no good deed gone unpunished, is there?

Sort of like defending an anti-semite in a pro-Israel thread.

443 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:57:14pm

re: #431 marjoriemoon

They aren't going to sink the ship. I'll bet you... something... I don't know quite what! But that's not going to happen.

I know they won't. I would not take the bet if you offered it. I am so adamant because if this were the US Navy blockading someplace like say Cuba because we were afraid of them getting missiles that would threaten our soil, we would shoot.

Israel should be able to defend herself to the same standard.

444 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:57:21pm

re: #398 WindUpBird

If only what was good for Buckley was also good for Byrd :P

What does Senator Byrd have to do with William F Buckley except to deflect into a partisan pissing contest?

Lefty: You're guy is a racist
Righty: He recanted
Lefty: Oh yeah, well our racist guy did too, but you hate him so I can hate your guy.

445 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:57:27pm

Follow up:

THE NEXUS AMONG TERRORISTS, NARCOTICS
TRAFFICKERS, WEAPONS PROLIFERATORS, AND
ORGANIZED CRIME NETWORKS IN WESTERN EUROPE

IRA Activities (Page 6)

Links between the IRA and the terrorist narcotics group Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (Spanish initialism FARC) have been suspected for some time. However, a major element of that connection was established in August 2001, when Colombian authorities arrested three IRA explosives experts under suspicious circumstances in Bogota. British intelligence reports have estimated that in recent years the FARC has paid IRA operatives about US$2 million for training in arms, explosives, and techniques of urban warfare, using offshore bank accounts; since 1998, between five and fifteen such experts are believed to have moved back and forth between Colombia and Europe. In April 2002, General Fernando Tapas, chief of the Colombian Joint Chiefs of Staff, testified to the House International Relations Committee that in Colombia seven IRA members had trained Colombian, Cuban, Iranian, and perhaps Basque fighters in the use of arms and intelligence for terrorist purposes.12 The IRA and FARC also may have cooperated in supplying arms to insurgents in Nicaragua in 2000.

Because the IRA strongly discourages individual initiative, all such operatives assumedly have the official approval of the organization. Padraig Wilson, a close associate of Gerry Adams, president of the IRA’s political organization, Sinn Fein, is known to have made covert contactswith FARC in Colombia in the past two years.14 As of October 2002, the three men who were arrested remained in a Colombian prison with no trial date set.

CONTINUES

446 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:57:44pm

re: #425 WindUpBird

I love how the blind partisanship batfuck crazy in this thread goes so far as to smear of a guy who doesn't drink as an alcoholic, in a thread about how he defended Israel unequivocally.

Man alive. There really just is no good deed gone unpunished, is there?

#73...don't say i don't call both sides of the plate!

447 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:57:57pm

I hear Al Gore's on the market ladies!

448 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:58:09pm

re: #445 Gus 802

Follow up:

THE NEXUS AMONG TERRORISTS, NARCOTICS
TRAFFICKERS, WEAPONS PROLIFERATORS, AND
ORGANIZED CRIME NETWORKS IN WESTERN EUROPE

IRA Activities (Page 6)

G-d I love your posts. You are one of the most informative Lizards.

449 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:58:17pm

I'll leave you with that thought :) nighters kids.

450 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:58:20pm

re: #429 prairiefire

I don't think he went to a more hard core rightie division of Christianity.[Link: www.adherents.com...]

Did I claim (or say) that he went to a further right (or left) denomination? I simply said he left the SBC, a generally moderate denomination... I never said otherwise.

451 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:58:27pm

re: #433 Bagua

I know, you love everybody.

Well I freakin' try, its part of my religion :D

We're all human tho'

452 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:58:45pm

re: #448 ludwigvanquixote

G-d I love your posts. You are one of the most informative Lizards.

Thanks. I usually forget everything in 5 minutes. ;)

453 Racer X  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:59:07pm

Smear? I thought it to be more of a mock.

454 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:59:20pm

SFZ, when you get here - Love you :)

455 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:59:39pm

re: #435 Stanley Sea

No! And I'm not going back!

Upding because I know you make a good point.

i'm blushing...

456 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 8:59:55pm

re: #447 marjoriemoon

I hear Al Gore's on the market ladies!

Maybe he's gay.

/Ducks!

457 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:00:00pm

re: #451 windsagio

Read

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Watch

Take notes

458 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:00:16pm

re: #427 Gus 802

[Link: www.state.gov...]

Israel should carefully check the lists of people aboard the Rachel Corrie. If it's got mostly Irish people on board, they should check to see if there are any IRA people on board. If there are, I'd go with Ludwig's option of firing a shot across the bow. I would not try to board, given the IRA's love of bomb traps.

459 jaunte  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:00:16pm

Carter: This sounds not so much like antisemitism as flat out tone deafness, but even an ex-President should know what they're saying. I think he does.

"My most troubling experience has been the rejection of my offers to speak, for free, about the book on university campuses with high Jewish enrollment and to answer questions from students and professors."
[Link: www.latimes.com...]
460 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:00:34pm

re: #444 BryanS

What does Senator Byrd have to do with William F Buckley except to deflect into a partisan pissing contest?

Lefty: You're guy is a racist
Righty: He recanted
Lefty: Oh yeah, well our racist guy did too, but you hate him so I can hate your guy.

no, the opposite. if Byrd recanted and apologized, he's good. same for Buckley.

461 Racer X  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:00:40pm

Heh.

/okay, don't get frickin' mad at me for posting it.

462 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:00:43pm

re: #441 ShaunP

But is there anything in Carters background that would give it heft?

If he were say David Duke, or a Nazi, there would also be a point.

463 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:00:48pm

re: #380 Gus 802

I find it interesting that those that celebrate the Carter presidency ignore his involvement in what led to the disaster in East Timor. They also ignore his ties to Anastasio Somoza, and Ferdinand Marcos.

Not to nitpick, but wasn't the Indonesian invasion of East Timor back in 1975, on Ford's watch? Just sayin'....

464 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:00:55pm

re: #439 Walter L. Newton

Hello Walter. Going OT. From last night, you should buy the July issue of Astronomy for your interest in meteorites.

Also, if you want to try to cut and polish some fossil dugong ribs (anyone else take that as you will), ask reine for my email and I'll send you some.

Signing off for tonight. Too much wine for nice religion discussions.

465 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:01:07pm

re: #416 NJDhockeyfan

Recent disclosures of Carter's extensive financial connections to Arab oil money, particularly from Saudi Arabia, had deeply shaken my belief in his integrity. When I was first told that he received a monetary reward in the name of Shiekh Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahayan, and kept the money, even after Harvard returned money from the same source because of its anti-Semitic history, I simply did not believe it. How could a man of such apparent integrity enrich himself with dirty money from so dirty a source?

...If money determines political and public views as Carter insists "Jewish money" does, Carter's views on the Middle East must be deemed to have been influenced by the vast sums of Arab money he has received. If he who pays the piper calls the tune, then Carter's off-key tunes have been called by his Saudi Arabian paymasters. It pains me to say this, but I now believe that there is no person in American public life today who has a lower ratio of real to apparent integrity than Jimmy Carter. The public perception of his integrity is extraordinarily high. His real integrity, it now turns out, is extraordinarily low. He is no better than so many former American politicians who, after leaving public life, sell themselves to the highest bidder and become lobbyists for despicable causes. That is now Jimmy Carter's sad legacy.

Restated for emphasis.

466 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:01:11pm

re: #444 BryanS

Byrd is kinda an injoke for WUB and I >>

467 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:01:19pm

re: #425 WindUpBird

A single post, largely ignored, with no mention of the word "alcoholic". It's unfair to characterize an entire thread with that.

468 MandyManners  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:02:42pm

re: #416 NJDhockeyfan

The Real Jimmy Carter
By: Alan M. Dershowitz

Yes.

469 Racer X  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:02:48pm

re: #467 Slumbering Behemoth

A single post, largely ignored, with no mention of the word "alcoholic". It's unfair to characterize an entire thread with that.

What? No outrage?

470 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:02:52pm

re: #347 Boogberg

I liked the Government cheese. Peace between Israel and Egypt wasn't bad either.

I liked the government butter. The school food service still made rolls from scratch and we would pile on that butter.

471 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:03:13pm

re: #462 windsagio

But is there anything in Carters background that would give it heft?

If he were say David Duke, or a Nazi, there would also be a point.

you mean besides the consistent support for Israel's enemies, the book full of distortions...

472 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:03:47pm

re: #463 Surabaya Stew

Not to nitpick, but wasn't the Indonesian invasion of East Timor back in 1975, on Ford's watch? Just sayin'...

Yes, but Carter continued supporting Jakarta. Now, if that was the right decision in light of the Cold War strategy that's for others to decide. But the Indonesians were ruthless. It simply goes against the myth that Carter was this "Jesuit" anti-war president.

473 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:03:59pm

re: #423 ludwigvanquixote

If you run a blockade, you invite the blockading navy to sink you.

If the US were to help in the blockade I would expect them to run blockades the way we usually do - as in shots across the bough followed by a large amount of the Capitan saying we will use deadly force, this is your final warning, followed by sinking the assholes or seizing the vessel by force.

I think where we disagree is that I prefer the latter while you think the former needs to be done.

Understand this: I have very little compassion left for these fools who think Gaza needs to be saved with wheelchairs and marbles. My view on this has grown very cold and calculating, and that's exactly why I think sinking the idiots is a bad idea. I sincerely think it causes Israel more harm in the PR war that must be taken into account. Israel can do what it must do without resorting to that.

The time to start sinking ships might very well come but I don't think it's there yet.

474 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:04:00pm

re: #425 WindUpBird

I love how the blind partisanship batfuck crazy in this thread goes so far as to smear of a guy who doesn't drink as an alcoholic, in a thread about how he defended Israel unequivocally.

Man alive. There really just is no good deed gone unpunished, is there?

Meh. It wasn't a serious criticism. Kinda like making fun of Quayle, Gore, and now Biden. Some of our recent veeps have been gafftastic.

I think almost everyone on this board tonight of all political leanings thinks he did the right thing.

475 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:04:28pm

re: #444 BryanS

What does Senator Byrd have to do with William F Buckley except to deflect into a partisan pissing contest?

Lefty: You're guy is a racist
Righty: He recanted
Lefty: Oh yeah, well our racist guy did too, but you hate him so I can hate your guy.

Byrd recanted too, and in time to vote for the CRA of 1968.

/ok, that was partisan

476 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:04:36pm

re: #462 windsagio

But is there anything in Carters background that would give it heft?

If he were say David Duke, or a Nazi, there would also be a point.

read 465. Ludwig commands it.

477 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:04:39pm

re: #430 windsagio

Hmm. You got a great point about cultural differences. As a native LA guy Chicago politics make me shudder. City culture clash. As a former repub, right leaner, his political culture clashes with me. He's an academic and community organizer. I'm neither. So another culture clash. But none of that is racial.

If you consider the old clash between Baptists and the Jewish religion, which Jimmy Carter might be reflecting.... It fits.

But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. He opposes Israeli policy for non racial crappy foolish reasons.

478 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:04:49pm

re: #471 Aceofwhat?


I grant you that he strongly disagrees with you.

479 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:04:57pm

re: #470 prairiefire

I liked the government butter. The school food service still made rolls from scratch and we would pile on that butter.

Fresh baked rolls are always a great thing, though I tend to eat too many of them when they are available.

480 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:05:40pm

About the Rachel Corrie:

A diplomatic solution seems imminent to allow the humanitarian aid vessel the Rachel Corrie to dock without incident at the Ashdod Port. According to European diplomats and senior Foreign Ministry officials in Jerusalem, quiet messages have been exchanged over the past few days between Israel and the group operating the ship, to allow it to dock.

The ship is expected to arrive by the weekend.

From Ha'aretz.

Is Israel being duped, or is this second Flotilla--absent the IHH--ACTUALLY full of naive peaceniks and not terror-supporters?


The not-always-reliable DEBKAfile speculates:

debkafile's counter-terror sources disclose suspicions in the Israeli government and naval command that the Irish ship would take aboard a new batch of trained Turkish IHH terrorists and head for the Gaza Strip. They might even be the same IHH activists who attacked Israeli commandos on the Marmara and were deported Wednesday.
Erdogan has resolved that this group which he personally sponsored will reach Gaza Port by hook or by crook. It is also feared in Jerusalem that he may attach an escort of Turkish warships and air force jets to accompany the Rachel Corrie and make sure the ship breaks through the blockade to its destination.

Ha'aretz (Article 1) has a stake in making the activists sound legit.
DEBKA just likes being sensational.

I wonder what the Israeli Navy is really expecting.

481 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:05:44pm

re: #443 ludwigvanquixote

I know they won't. I would not take the bet if you offered it. I am so adamant because if this were the US Navy blockading someplace like say Cuba because we were afraid of them getting missiles that would threaten our soil, we would shoot.

Israel should be able to defend herself to the same standard.

Horrible example because it happened and we didn't sink a damn ship.

482 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:05:45pm

re: #458 Dark_Falcon

Israel should carefully check the lists of people aboard the Rachel Corrie. If it's got mostly Irish people on board, they should check to see if there are any IRA people on board. If there are, I'd go with Ludwig's option of firing a shot across the bow. I would not try to board, given the IRA's love of bomb traps.

It wouldn't surprise me to see radical elements of the IRA on board. The bond between the IRA and the PLO is historic. The PLO would now be represented by Fatah.

483 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:05:56pm

re: #476 Aceofwhat?

Oh I did.

484 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:06:49pm

OT: SOB monkey just murdered a puppy!

485 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:06:50pm

re: #464 Naso Tang

Hello Walter. Going OT. From last night, you should buy the July issue of Astronomy for your interest in meteorites.

Also, if you want to try to cut and polish some fossil dugong ribs (anyone else take that as you will), ask reine for my email and I'll send you some.

Signing off for tonight. Too much wine for nice religion discussions.

Done

486 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:07:02pm

and now I h ave a (&*#@$ forest fire too.

Dammit.

487 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:07:04pm

re: #460 Aceofwhat?

no, the opposite. if Byrd recanted and apologized, he's good. same for Buckley.

I would agree--if that was why Byrd was brought up.

488 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:07:13pm

re: #482 Gus 802

I hopr British Intel would help, but given their policy, I'm not hopeful.

489 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:07:41pm

re: #486 windsagio

Reload!

OK back to our normal programming!

490 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:07:43pm

re: #484 windsagio

Whaaa?!

491 mich-again  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:07:46pm

And then there was Jimmy Carter's public support for Hamas. But I guess that doesn't mean he's not a supporter of Israel. /

Former US president Jimmy Carter expressed optimism Friday over Hamas’s participation in next week’s Palestinian parliamentary elections.

Carter told CNN in an interview that although Hamas were “so-called terrorists,” so far “there have been no complaints of corruption against [their] elected officials.”

492 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:07:48pm

re: #484 windsagio

OT: SOB monkey just murdered a puppy!

que?

493 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:08:05pm

re: #450 Walter L. Newton

Walter, I attended an SP college in the early eighties when the SB's were just beginning their hard turn to the right. A classmate's mom died from her brain tumor because she did not pray hard enough, the SB preacher told the family.
Elderly folks had to keep standing through the worship and praise music section because it was disrespectful not to.
Many gay religious music students had to drop their plans for ministry service or go further into the closet. It was not a period of progressive thought for the SB's. It was a throw back.
I don't think they have come back from those times.

494 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:08:17pm

re: #481 JasonA

Horrible example because it happened and we didn't sink a damn ship.

The French sinking of the Rainbow Warrior.

From Wiki:

Agents had boarded and examined the ship while it was open to public viewing. The agents attached two limpet mines to the ship and detonated them 10 minutes apart at around 11:45 p.m. Agents intended the first mine to cripple the ship so that everybody would be evacuated safely off when the second mine was detonated. The ship sank four minutes after the second explosion.

However, the crew did not react to the first explosion as the agents had expected. While the ship was initially evacuated, some of the crew returned to the ship to investigate and film the damage. A Portuguese-Dutch photographer, Fernando Pereira, returned below decks to fetch his camera equipment. He drowned in the rapid flooding that followed the second blast. The other ten crew members were either safely evacuated on the order of Captain Peter Willcox or were thrown into the water by the second explosion.
[edit]

Not quite the same scenario, but it involved a country sinking a ship of activists.

495 justaminute  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:08:18pm

Hi! Just got back from New Orleans a couple of days ago. Just in time for all of the fireworks and have spent a couple of days reading and thinking about the oil spill and what was going down with the flotilla. On our trip my husband received word that his mother had a couple of strokes and that made his Iran trip more urgent.

I was in Iran when Ahmadinejad was elected. but what are you going to do about it? Gaza is like this. Iraq is like this. Afghanistan if like this. No good choices. Pick your poison. And they get to call this a democratic election. Picked by the people. Now you have Turkey with a questionable president who has been communicating with Ahmadinejad. My fear is that things went to far and to fast with this. I think this is some kind of a political chess match that has just started.

496 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:08:19pm

re: #477 Rightwingconspirator

Hmm. You got a great point about cultural differences. As a native LA guy Chicago politics make me shudder. City culture clash. As a former repub, right leaner, his political culture clashes with me. He's an academic and community organizer. I'm neither. So another culture clash. But none of that is racial.

If you consider the old clash between Baptists and the Jewish religion, which Jimmy Carter might be reflecting... It fits.

But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. He opposes Israeli policy for non racial crappy foolish reasons.

Chicago's politics are so notorious that a board game called "The Chicago Way" has been made about it. My favorite game store got a copy of it recently.

497 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:08:24pm

re: #490 Rightwingconspirator

re: #492 Aceofwhat?

This again, of course.

498 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:08:30pm

re: #493 prairiefire

Southern Baptist college, not SP.

499 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:08:30pm

re: #487 BryanS

I would agree--if that was why Byrd was brought up.

it was. (if i read it right...need that caveat!)

500 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:09:01pm

It would be a fitting tribute to Rachel Corrie if the ship that bears her name ended up being a cover for terrorism.

501 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:09:17pm

re: #425 WindUpBird

I love how the blind partisanship batfuck crazy in this thread goes so far as to smear of a guy who doesn't drink as an alcoholic, in a thread about how he defended Israel unequivocally.

Man alive. There really just is no good deed gone unpunished, is there?

THIS, THIS is what blows my mind about people on this blog. Blind partisans.

this thread goes so far as to smear of a guy who doesn't drink as an alcoholic, in a thread about how he defended Israel unequivocally.\

Americans?

502 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:09:50pm

re: #470 prairiefire

Oh man, I love real butter. There is no substitute. :D

503 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:10:04pm

re: #494 Joo-LiZ

Right, but he brought up the Missile Crisis (indirectly), where we even let one slip through because we couldn't catch it.

504 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:10:26pm

re: #461 Racer X

Heh.

/okay, don't get frickin' mad at me for posting it.

You think that one is bad? You should check out this one... NSFW

505 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:10:38pm

re: #495 justaminute

Hi! Just got back from New Orleans a couple of days ago. Just in time for all of the fireworks and have spent a couple of days reading and thinking about the oil spill and what was going down with the flotilla. On our trip my husband received word that his mother had a couple of strokes and that made his Iran trip more urgent.

I was in Iran when Ahmadinejad was elected. but what are you going to do about it? Gaza is like this. Iraq is like this. Afghanistan if like this. No good choices. Pick your poison. And they get to call this a democratic election. Picked by the people. Now you have Turkey with a questionable president who has been communicating with Ahmadinejad. My fear is that things went to far and to fast with this. I think this is some kind of a political chess match that has just started.

I think you are wrong on the last point.

It is a chess match that has been going on for a long time.
It feels more like we are seeing each player trying to predict a few steps ahead and start taking pieces off the board.

506 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:11:15pm

re: #503 JasonA

Right, but he brought up the Missile Crisis (indirectly), where we even let one slip through because we couldn't catch it.

I didn't really follow the discussion at all. Just kinda jumped in with the link.

Sorry.

Carry on.

507 solomonpanting  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:12:00pm

re: #480 Joo-LiZ

About the Rachel Corrie:

A diplomatic solution seems imminent to allow the humanitarian aid vessel the Rachel Corrie to dock without incident at the Ashdod Port.

Here's the technology to help unload.

508 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:12:10pm

re: #506 Joo-LiZ

Heh. No worries.

509 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:12:22pm

re: #469 Racer X

What? No outrage?

Only a smidgen of outrageous outrage.

510 Racer X  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:12:31pm

re: #504 Slumbering Behemoth

Dude.

W.
T.
F.

511 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:12:40pm

Hey, SFZ! How was the protest tonight?

512 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:13:15pm

re: #482 Gus 802

It wouldn't surprise me to see radical elements of the IRA on board. The bond between the IRA and the PLO is historic. The PLO would now be represented by Fatah.

If they are there, then Israel should not try a boarding action. Those assholes love setting explosive traps and too many of them enjoy killing commandos. They might take this as an opportunity to relive their "glory" days.

513 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:13:16pm

re: #427 Gus 802

I stand corrected that the reference was to historical indications of cooperation between IRA and FARC, which is altogether possible and even likely. My (now irrelevant) point was about allegations of IRA and ETA terrorist camps supported by Chavez that are supposedly in operation today.

514 justaminute  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:13:17pm

re: #505 Joo-LiZ

I think you are wrong on the last point.

It is a chess match that has been going on for a long time.
It feels more like we are seeing each player trying to predict a few steps ahead and start taking pieces off the board.

Yes but the Iran question just was moved back on the board to a more safe position, don't you think?

515 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:13:38pm

re: #381 windsagio

I envy you guys (and ladies) your absolute certainty of your rightness.

But you have your own certainty of your own rightness.

516 Racer X  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:13:57pm

re: #509 Slumbering Behemoth

Only a smidgen of outrageous outrage.

I think the twins were outraged. They confused mockery with smear. Common mistake.

517 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:14:48pm

Quick Oil Leak update:

In a surprise decision, CRAW is making a re-appearance and will soon snip off the Riser where the Diamond Saw died. Instead of a clean diamond CUT cut, we will get the snarling, pinching, crushing, bite of the fearsome CRAW.

CRAW weighs 48,000 pounds. CRAW has a proven ability to bite through the hardened Riser and Drill Pipes. CRAW will not fail to sever his opponent. But the BOP could blow-up from the stress.


Image: CRAW_2.JPG

518 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:15:04pm

re: #515 reine.de.tout

I'm not so certain tho'.

I think I'm right, but I'm willing to acknowlege that I could be wrong.

519 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:15:18pm

re: #501 Stanley Sea


this thread goes so far as to smear of a guy who doesn't drink as an alcoholic, in a thread about how he defended Israel unequivocally.

Again: A single post, largely ignored, with no mention of the word "alcoholic". It's unfair to characterize an entire thread with that.

520 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:15:23pm

re: #512 Dark_Falcon

If they are there, then Israel should not try a boarding action. Those assholes love setting explosive traps and too many of them enjoy killing commandos. They might take this as an opportunity to relive their "glory" days.

Then the claim would be that the Israelis sunk the ship.

521 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:15:24pm

re: #514 justaminute

Yes but the Iran question just was moved back on the board to a more safe position, don't you think?

Nope. I think Turkey is acting in full coordination with Iran. Erdogan has cast his lot with the Iran/Syria/Hamas/Hizballah alliance.

522 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:15:46pm

re: #516 Racer X

I think the twins were outraged. They confused mockery with smear. Common mistake.

the twins. *chortle*

523 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:16:25pm

re: #510 Racer X

Precisely what I said. Still, funky ass tune, no?

524 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:16:27pm

re: #497 windsagio

Oh. My. Word. That is the most confusing front page ever. A simulation game I take it.
Enjoy!

525 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:16:28pm

re: #409 Alouette

SFZ slowly working her way down from the top.

hahaha!
As usual.
LOL.
I was in last night's thread until she finished the whole thing.
It was as exciting as waiting for the gaza rooster.

526 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:16:31pm

re: #497 windsagio

re: #492 Aceofwhat?

This again, of course.

The game has no objective, right? You just play a map until you feel like it, or set your own goals. Or your fortress dies.

527 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:17:35pm

re: #510 Racer X

Dude.

W.
T.
F.

Did he top yours?

528 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:17:40pm

Flashback:

Anti-Semitic Reactions to Jimmy Carter's Book: White Supremacists


Many scholars and experts on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have strongly criticized Jimmy Carter's book, "Palestine Peace Not Apartheid," for its distortions, misrepresentations, and one-sided arguments that blame Israel for the conflict while giving the Palestinians a pass. Yet the book is being celebrated in online white supremacist forums for its anti-Israel, conspiratorial and anti-Semitic propaganda value. Some white supremacists in the United States have embraced the message of Carter's book, pointing to criticism by supporters of Israel as confirmation of their anti-Semitic notions of Jewish power.

As a result, various online anti-Semitic forums have hailed Carter's book in diatribes laced with anti-Semitic invective. White supremacists, who already focus much of their hatred on Jews and believe that "Zionists" and Israel control the U.S. government and create the world's problems, welcomed President Carter's book as an affirmation of their warped anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.

White supremacist forums such as Stormfront, the longest-running white supremacist Web site on the Internet, Aryan Nations Forum, a Web forum operated by the South Carolina-based Aryan Nations group headed by August Kreis, and Vanguard News Network (VNN), a white supremacist Web site and discussion forum run by neo-Nazi Alex Linder, have included posts praising President Carter for standing up to the "Zionist lobby" and Israel and reaffirming their views on the inherent evil nature of Jews. Many of the messages expressed support for Carter, claiming that any criticism of his book is an attack by "the Zionists."

Mark Weber of the Institute for Historical Review, a Holocaust denial organization, listed the book along with the conspiratorial paper on the "Israel Lobby" by professors John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt as one of the year's crowning achievements, showing the "growing awareness of Jewish-Zionist power."

529 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:17:47pm

re: #518 windsagio

I'm not so certain tho'.

I think I'm right, but I'm willing to acknowlege that I could be wrong.

Well, except when it comes to Jimmy Carter.

530 Racer X  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:17:49pm

re: #523 Slumbering Behemoth

Precisely what I said. Still, funky ass tune, no?

Dude. That was the best porn music video I have ever seen.

531 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:18:03pm

re: #524 Rightwingconspirator

Its the most in depth game designed for computers anywhere, anytime.

Just ascii graphics and it slows down brand-new top of the line computers sometimes.

532 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:18:15pm

re: #526 Nimed

Yes that.

533 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:18:20pm

re: #525 reine.de.tout

I gotta try that some time. The night before a day off I think.

534 Racer X  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:18:25pm

re: #527 prairiefire

Did he top yours?

Hands down.

535 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:18:37pm

re: #518 windsagio

I'm not so certain tho'.

I think I'm right, but I'm willing to acknowlege that I could be wrong.

I know you're wrong, but I'm willing to acknowledge that you don't know how to tell wrong from right.

Probably a parenting issue.

536 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:18:40pm

re: #500 Cato the Elder

It would be a fitting tribute to Rachel Corrie if the ship that bears her name ended up being a cover for terrorism.

Quite Concur.

537 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:18:46pm

Jimmah Carter believes that Israel's existence as a Jewish State is the main impediment to peace.

538 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:19:34pm

re: #535 Cato the Elder

Thats the difference between us Cato, I'm not afraid to admit I'm unsure of things.

539 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:19:44pm

re: #518 windsagio

I'm not so certain tho'.

I think I'm right, but I'm willing to acknowlege that I could be wrong.

check out #528. what would you say about a rightie whose book got so much love from stormfront et al...?

540 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:20:01pm

re: #534 Racer X

Hands down.

Yea, and keep them there./

541 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:20:31pm

re: #531 windsagio

Now I love the idea of the game taking up the resources instead of the interface. Smart. Eye Shocker at first sight. The old characters get ya.

542 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:20:41pm

re: #538 windsagio

Thats the difference between us Cato, I'm not afraid to admit I'm unsure of things.

There's plenty that I'm unsure of.

But I've got you pegged.

543 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:21:51pm

Jimmah Carter believes that Hamas should now be recognized and supported because they will eventually reject terrorism.

544 Racer X  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:21:59pm

Three Cool Lizards.

Image: dKrMj.jpg

545 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:22:07pm

re: #539 Aceofwhat?

It means they liked it :P

Antisemites also like the Bible (well some of them do).

546 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:22:17pm

re: #534 Racer X

Only temporary, brother, only temporary. I have great faith in your "Weird Music Video" web-fu.

547 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:22:40pm

re: #541 Rightwingconspirator

yeah, exactly.

HUGE barrier of entry, but so much fun if you can get going

548 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:23:21pm

re: #520 BryanS

Then the claim would be that the Israelis sunk the ship.

The bombs the IRA would use would not have the power to sink the ship. They'd be nail bombs, mostly using shrapnel for their killing power. The IRA widely used them during the "Troubles". If they were on such a ship, they'd try to destroy the boarding party and take hostages. That, however, would likely rebound to their detriment, since Israel gets pretty nasty when people take its citizens hostage.

549 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:23:41pm

re: #537 Spare O'Lake

Jimmah Carter believes that Israel's existence as a Jewish State is the main impediment to peace.

see [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

550 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:24:13pm

re: #548 Dark_Falcon

But there wouldn't be very many Israeli citizens on this ship, would there?

551 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:24:24pm

re: #543 Spare O'Lake

Jimmah Carter believes that Hamas should now be recognized and supported because they will eventually reject terrorism.

That's like saying "I'm going to recognize this tumor as part of my body because I'm certain it will eventually stop sucking the life out of me and turn into a useful organ"...

552 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:24:33pm

re: #550 JasonA

There were some in the flotilla tho'.

553 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:24:35pm

re: #537 Spare O'Lake

Jimmah Carter believes that Israel's existence as a Jewish State is the main impediment to peace.

Well, many people were willing to entertain the one-state solution/pipe dream for a long time. Don't know much about the history of the idea, but I believe there was a time when it was considered more realistic by some.

554 justaminute  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:24:41pm

re: #521 Joo-LiZ

Nope. I think Turkey is acting in full coordination with Iran. Erdogan has cast his lot with the Iran/Syria/Hamas/Hizballah alliance.

I do too. I've learned that when you deal with some of these people that you can never underestimate them. In Iran when people felt like everyone was with them too, after all they had the world cheering them on but where are we now?

555 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:24:52pm

re: #542 Cato the Elder

To be frank, I think I've got you pegged too :D

556 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:25:19pm

re: #533 Rightwingconspirator

I gotta try that some time. The night before a day off I think.

What, stay up all night for a thread?
It can be loads of fun, or dull as dirt, depending.

557 Racer X  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:25:27pm

re: #546 Slumbering Behemoth

Only temporary, brother, only temporary. I have great faith in your "Weird Music Video" web-fu.

I'll throw this one out - as a snack.
Kinky

558 prairiefire  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:25:33pm

Hubby still at work with month end IT problems. Off to sleep for me.
Night lizards, thanks for the disagreements. Seriously. Makes life more interesting if I might be wrong.

559 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:25:37pm

re: #543 Spare O'Lake

Spare, could you please not call spell Carter's first name as "Jimmah"? Our Jimmah has said it feels like it likes him to Carter. I know you don't mean to do that, but I'd still ask you to stop it.

560 mich-again  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:25:37pm

re: #543 Spare O'Lake

Jimmah Carter believes that Hamas should now be recognized and supported because they will eventually reject terrorism.

Yep. Once Israel is wiped from the map and every Jew is dead. On a related note, the Nazi's would have eventually stopped killing Jews.

561 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:25:54pm

re: #543 Spare O'Lake

"You should *shiver* You should len.. *cough-hack* lend me large sums of money now, because eventu.. *shiver-cough* eventually I will kick heroin."
/

562 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:27:32pm

re: #559 Dark_Falcon

Spare, could you please not call spell Carter's first name as "Jimmah"? Our Jimmah has said it feels like it likes him to Carter. I know you don't mean to do that, but I'd still ask you to stop it.

agreed. those little jabs, intended or not, don't contribute to a better atmosphere.

563 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:27:48pm

re: #513 tommysilver

I stand corrected that the reference was to historical indications of cooperation between IRA and FARC, which is altogether possible and even likely. My (now irrelevant) point was about allegations of IRA and ETA terrorist camps supported by Chavez that are supposedly in operation today.

Oh. The ETA and the IRA have crossed paths. Since ETA members have found sanctuary in South America the connections could only be made anecdotally since I didn't find any specific mention of that. I think I'll leave it at that otherwise I'd have to start reading.

564 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:27:56pm

"If I get back in, I'm going to fuck the Jews."
--President Jimmy Carter, 1980

565 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:28:04pm

re: #547 windsagio

My studio pal just built the new 64 bit with Win7 pro. Built to Adobe Premier CS5 specs +. Might ask you about this game later on. Just to test the new machine.
Going to offer HD editing via FTP through camera stores etc.. Lots of HD on those $200 consumer cameras and no way to edit as a simple consumer. Plus I need this monster to handle my 7d video.

566 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:28:27pm

re: #550 JasonA

But there wouldn't be very many Israeli citizens on this ship, would there?

No, but the IRA would try to take one or two commandos alive.

I'm not saying this scenario is likely, but it should be examined in view of the information we've gone over. I also did it because I like to wargame out approaches to difficult situations.

567 Racer X  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:28:31pm

New Eco-Friendly Cigarettes Kill Destructive Human Beings Over Time

Executives at Philip Morris USA this week unveiled Marlboro Earth, a new eco-friendly cigarette that gradually eliminates the causes of global warming and environmental destruction at their source.

"By killing off the No. 1 threat to the environment, new Marlboro Earths will have a long-term effect on the overall health of our planet," Philip Morris spokesperson Janet Weiss said. "If everyone in America does their part and joins our new green-smoking movement, then together we can eradicate man's destructive practices once and for all."

According to a press release from Philip Morris, the new environmentally friendly cigarettes work by employing powerful carcinogens that accumulate in the lungs of smokers, slowly breaking down their vital organs and eliminating the danger posed to the overpopulated planet by the human race.

Because Marlboro Earths take decades to work, the company stresses that people should start using them as early as possible, ideally during childhood or adolescence, in order to maximize the product's effectiveness.

"We've got to get everybody on board, the sooner the better," said Weiss, stressing that nothing less than the fate of the planet was at stake. "It doesn't take much. As few as two packs of Marlboro Earths a day can make all the difference in the world."

"Go ahead," Weiss continued. "Light up, breathe in, and help save Mother Earth."

568 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:28:56pm

re: #557 Racer X

Hilarious!

569 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:29:00pm

re: #565 Rightwingconspirator

Oh for sure, I try to hold it in usually, I could carry on for hours :D

570 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:29:08pm

re: #559 Dark_Falcon

Spare, could you please not call spell Carter's first name as "Jimmah"? Our Jimmah has said it feels like it likes him to Carter. I know you don't mean to do that, but I'd still ask you to stop it.

Quite concur.

I've taken to calling him "Jiminy" Carter, because like a cricket, he only sings one song.

571 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:29:08pm

re: #562 Aceofwhat?

agreed. those little jabs, intended or not, don't contribute to a better atmosphere.

I've wondered why 'our" "Jimmah" picked that as a screename. Carter has been called "Jimmah" for a very long time

572 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:29:10pm

re: #554 justaminute

I do too. I've learned that when you deal with some of these people that you can never underestimate them. In Iran when people felt like everyone was with them too, after all they had the world cheering them on but where are we now?

As much as we may hate to admit it, violent crackdowns work.

When you shutdown communications networks, murder people in the streets, and track down and arrest protest organizers --- protests will stop.

573 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:29:45pm

FREE MUMIA!

574 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:29:46pm

re: #564 Spare O'Lake

"If I get back in, I'm going to fuck the Jews."
--President Jimmy Carter, 1980

Actual quote?!

575 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:29:52pm

re: #556 reine.de.tout

Well no I mean start late from the top. When I come in late I usually read back 30-60 minutes, hoping to get whats up in time to catch up.

576 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:29:54pm

re: #564 Spare O'Lake

Got a source for that one?

577 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:30:11pm

re: #574 Cato the Elder

That would simplify matters, wouldn't it?

578 mich-again  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:30:43pm

re: #573 windsagio

What? Is it a buy one, get one free deal??

579 jaunte  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:31:27pm

re: #573 windsagio

FREE MUMIA!

With every purchase of LGF Cookbook!

580 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:33:09pm

re: #578 mich-again

re: #579 jaunte

581 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:33:24pm

re: #567 Racer X

In related environmental news:

Melting Ice Caps Expose Hundreds Of Secret Arctic Lairs

ZACKENBERG RESEARCH STATION, GREENLAND—Claiming it to be one of the most dramatic and visible signs of climate change to date, researchers said Monday that receding polar ice caps have revealed nearly 200 clandestine lairs once buried deep beneath hundreds of feet of Arctic ice.

"We always assumed there would be some secret lairs here and there, but the sheer number now being exposed is indeed troubling," said noted climatologist Anders Lorenzen, who claimed that the Arctic ice caps have shrunk at the alarming rate of 41,000 square miles per year. "In August alone we discovered 44 mad scientist laboratories, three highly classified military compounds, and seven reanimated and very confused cavemen. That's more than twice the number we had found in the previous three decades combined."

"This is no longer conjecture," Lorenzen added. "This is a full-blown crisis."

Good thing my lair lies deep beneath the ocean floor.

582 jaunte  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:33:27pm

re: #579 jaunte

(Mumia non-transferable, offer not valid in some localities).

583 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:33:49pm

re: #573 windsagio

FREE FRY MUMIA!

Fixed. Cop killing assholes get no sympathy from me.

584 Bagua  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:34:22pm

Good grief, things on the Spilling Fields are getting worse. That nice Cap will sit idle while the new Top Hat will be used to try to catch some oil. It is 4 feet diameter and 5 feet tall, but only about two tons.

No doubt it is mentalated, and smaller, so it has a better chance than the first failure. I reckon it could pick up about 20% of the leak on a good day. We will find out soon.

Image: bpseal1.jpg

585 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:34:43pm

re: #581 Slumbering Behemoth

In related environmental news:

Melting Ice Caps Expose Hundreds Of Secret Arctic Lairs

Good thing my lair lies deep beneath the ocean floor.

I heard Charles has the best lair ever.

586 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:34:49pm

re: #581 Slumbering Behemoth

In related environmental news:

Melting Ice Caps Expose Hundreds Of Secret Arctic Lairs

Good thing my lair lies deep beneath the ocean floor.

If they haven't found the Fortress of Solitude yet, we might yet have a chance.

587 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:34:57pm

re: #573 windsagio

Now your just trolling.

588 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:35:25pm

re: #567 Racer X

Reminds me of the oft cited "costs to society" of smoking used to justify higher tobacco taxes and more regulation. When in reality, most smokers who die from their habit die before living 20 years on Medicare and Social Security. In fact, the average smoker saves our government money by dying and paying into these systems without drawing on them.

589 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:35:47pm

re: #587 Slumbering Behemoth

Lol I cannot deny it >>

In my defense I woudln't defend that position :D

590 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:36:06pm

re: #571 sattv4u2

I've wondered why 'our" "Jimmah" picked that as a screename. Carter has been called "Jimmah" for a very long time

I think its use by him may predate his registering at LGF. He's from Scotland, remember, and may not have known about that nickname before he started posting here. It's not widely used outside of the US.

591 boxhead  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:36:06pm

re: #586 EmmmieG

I heard some bald guy found it....

592 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:36:19pm

re: #543 Spare O'Lake

I don't know or care if Carter is anti-semitic, but he is demonstrably naive, hypocritical and biased. Even if Hamas eventually rejects terrorism (as has the PLO), one of its founding tenets is there can be no permanent peace with the Jewish state, only a "hudna" or temporary truce during which Hamas would strive to change the facts on the ground including by vastly increasing the Palestinian population (forcing each family to have a dozen children or more), by gaining military might, by making strong military alliances with other Arab states, and by obtaining WMDs until such day that Hamas can end the truce and defeat the Israelis in an actual war. Terrorism is a side issue, a distraction, a "tool" of low significance, in comparison to such "lofty" Hamas goals. They have no problem with this playing out over several decades if that is what it takes and they certainly have no problem disavowing terrorism if it gets them closer to their goal.

593 boxhead  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:37:08pm

re: #592 tommysilver


And he is 85 years old.... :) Maybe the simple answers are the best,, :)

594 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:37:18pm

re: #589 windsagio

Lol I cannot deny it >>

In my defense I wouldn't defend that position :D

Glad to hear that. Upding.

595 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:37:36pm

Tonight's Kos poll...

Do you support Biden's stance regarding an investigation?

Poll
Do you support Biden's stance regarding an investigation?

No. Israel was within its rights to interdict the aid flotilla. No investigation is needed whatsoever.
5% 33 votes
Yes. An Israeli investigation with international participation could reveal the truth of what happened.
9% 62 votes
Yes. But the investigation should be supervised by outsiders, not Israel.
31% 218 votes
No. Any investigation that isn't totally independent will be a waste of time whose findings will be ignored.
22% 154 votes
No. This is a distraction from the larger issue, which is the failure to address the effects of the occupation of the West Bank and external control of Gaza.
28% 197 votes
I don't care
5% 35 votes
Other
2% 15 votes
714 votes

I picked the first one, which I see ranks lower than "I don't care."

596 solomonpanting  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:37:43pm

re: #576 JasonA

Got a source for that one?

As November neared and American Jews--like their Christian neighbors--indicated that they would back Reagan in unprecedented numbers, Carter told associates, "If I get back in, I'm going to **** the Jews." And so he has been trying for 28 years.

597 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:37:48pm

From Reuters.


REUTERS!!

Israel's Blockade is Legal.

What is the legality of the blockade and did Israel's intervention breach international law? Below are some questions and answers on the issue:

CAN ISRAEL IMPOSE A NAVAL BLOCKADE ON GAZA?

Yes it can, according to the law of blockade which was derived from customary international law and codified in the 1909 Declaration of London. It was updated in 1994 in a legally recognized document called the "San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea."

Under some of the key rules, a blockade must be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral states, access to neutral ports cannot be blocked, and an area can only be blockaded which is under enemy control.

"On the basis that Hamas is the ruling entity of Gaza and Israel is in the midst of an armed struggle against that ruling entity, the blockade is legal," said Philip Roche, partner in the shipping disputes and risk management team with law firm Norton Rose.

Cool.

598 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:38:28pm

re: #592 tommysilver

Paragraphs, man! What about the paragraphs?

599 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:38:51pm

re: #585 Rightwingconspirator

I heard Charles has the best lair ever.

His is great for plotting, and keeping tabs on the activities of his minions. Mine is just for slumbering, and being left well the fuck alone until the stars are right.

600 Racer X  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:39:31pm
601 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:40:24pm

re: #596 solomonpanting

I don't even bother sticking up for Carter here, but I need a more solid source for me to take that as fact.

602 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:40:24pm

re: #597 Joo-LiZ

From Reuters.

REUTERS!!

Israel's Blockade is Legal.

Cool.

[Looking out the window for flying pigs.]

603 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:40:27pm

re: #581 Slumbering Behemoth

In related environmental news:

Melting Ice Caps Expose Hundreds Of Secret Arctic Lairs

Good thing my lair lies deep beneath the ocean floor.

And then there is this, from our own Beekiller.

604 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:40:37pm

re: #597 Joo-LiZ

From Reuters.

REUTERS!!

Israel's Blockade is Legal.

Cool.

Read that whole article. Legally vindicates Israel on all counts.

605 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:41:01pm

re: #597 Joo-LiZ

Perhaps its not Reuters that has the undue prejudice...

606 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:41:04pm

re: #597 Joo-LiZ

From Reuters.

REUTERS!!

Israel's Blockade is Legal.

Cool.

Great stuff, now we hope Reuters conforms their stories to those facts. i'm not going to hold my breath.

607 jaunte  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:41:11pm

re: #597 Joo-LiZ

Someone at Reuters must have been reading Shiplord Kirel's posts at LGF.

608 solomonpanting  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:42:02pm

re: #601 JasonA

I don't even bother sticking up for Carter here, but I need a more solid source for me to take that as fact.

In Dangerous Liaison: The Inside Story of the U.S.-Israeli Covert Relationship, Andrew and Leslie Cockburn revealed that during a March 1980 meeting with his senior political advisers, Carter, discussing his fading reelection prospects and his sinking approval rating in the Jewish community, snapped, "If I get back in, I'm going to [expletive] the Jews."

609 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:42:35pm

re: #574 Cato the Elder

Actual quote?!

If you can trust the authors:

In Dangerous Liaison: The Inside Story of the U.S.-Israeli Covert Relationship, Andrew and Leslie Cockburn revealed that during a March 1980 meeting with his senior political advisers, Carter, discussing his fading reelection prospects and his sinking approval rating in the Jewish community, snapped, "If I get back in, I'm going to [expletive] the Jews."

Andrew Cockburn is Alexander Cockburn's brother. I doubt the authenticity. This is high moonbat territory.

610 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:42:41pm

You know, whenever the current topic turns to former President Carter, I glaze over.

Then I'm reading about some connect between the IRA and the pro-Gaza people? what?

Come on, links, document your assertions.

611 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:44:36pm

re: #163 Dark_Falcon

I just had another idea: How about mining Gaza's harbor? Make it so that ships cannot dock there. How does that sound?

Could be a problem for the fishermen.

612 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:45:06pm

re: #598 JasonA

Paragraphs are for sissies.

613 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:45:11pm

re: #605 windsagio

Perhaps its not Reuters that has the undue prejudice...

The problem I'd say is more with individual journalists than with actual outlets.

The only problem is that it's the job of the editors to catch bias.

But, I'm happy to see this one out by Reuters.

614 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:45:20pm

Will. She. Go. All. The. Way?!?

615 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:45:27pm

re: #172 captdiggs

Ok, this won't be popular here these days, but I will say it anyway.

Part of the reason that the hatred against Israel has noticeably ratcheted up around the world is the current US administration.
Obama's...shall we say cool...relations with Israel have indicated a serious weakening in official US support for Israel, and the sharks smell blood.

Sorry, but that's the truth.

Oh, gag me with a spoon.

616 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:45:28pm

re: #603 Cato the Elder

If they build it, I will feed?

617 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:45:34pm

re: #612 tommysilver

Paragraphs are for sissies.

Cato, line 2.

618 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:46:03pm

re: #610 Stanley Sea

You know, whenever the current topic turns to former President Carter, I glaze over.

Let me know when you're crispy enough to stick a fork in...

619 Racer X  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:46:14pm
620 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:46:15pm

re: #615 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, gag me with a spoon.

You'll have to buy me dinner first.

621 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:46:41pm

re: #574 Cato the Elder

Actual quote?!

Apparently so.
[Link: angelinoview.com...]

622 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:47:30pm

re: #609 Gus 802

Andrew Cockburn is Alexander Cockburn's brother. I doubt the authenticity. This is high moonbat territory.

Indeed. Possibly a case of projection. Both Cockburns are on record as Israel-haters.

Alexander Cockburn is also the AGW denier-in-chief on the loony left.

623 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:47:34pm

re: #609 Gus 802

Andrew Cockburn is Alexander Cockburn's brother. I doubt the authenticity. This is high moonbat territory.

Agreed. The Cockburns should not be trusted.

624 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:48:14pm

re: #618 Cato the Elder

Let me know when you're crispy enough to stick a fork in...

I'm close.

625 boxhead  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:48:14pm

re: #615 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, gag me with a spoon.

Didn't you know, its is all Obama's fault.

//

626 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:48:20pm

re: #218 philosophus invidius

Why do so many Irish people hate Israel so much?

The Irish have a terrible habit of rooting for the perceived underdog.

627 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:48:49pm

re: #619 Racer X

Jon Stewart - The Spilling Fields

Heh.

That was hilarious.

628 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:49:12pm

re: #622 Cato the Elder

Indeed. Possibly a case of projection. Both Cockburns are on record as Israel-haters.

Alexander Cockburn is also the AGW denier-in-chief on the loony left.

The father was Claud Cockburn who was considered a British Stalinist.

629 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:51:21pm

re: #590 Dark_Falcon

Find out for me where he got that nic, would you?
BTW at Iceseasel's specific request I now always add "Carter" after "Jimmah", so I thought that was OK with them, for fuck's sake.

630 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:51:49pm

re: #266 NJDhockeyfan

Bush was a great friend of Israel and enemy of terrorists. Carter is a great friend of terrorists. There is a difference.

I'll accept 'friend of Israel and enemy of terrorists'. Exactly what made Bush such a great friend, though?

631 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:52:38pm

re: #612 tommysilver

Paragraphs are for sissies.

... and those with poor eyesight, as well as those with a passing interest in writing conventions that accommodate such.

632 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:53:04pm
633 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:53:26pm

re: #621 Spare O'Lake

Apparently so.
[Link: angelinoview.com...]

It's unsourced, so must be taken magno cum grano salis.

But I would have to say that the record is clear - Carter has been a mincing anti-Semite since before he got elected President.

634 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:53:31pm

re: #295 Spare O'Lake

It wasn't a "break" in the full sense, but it was a unilateral repudiation of the existing understanding concerning building in Jerusalem.

Please define what that understanding was, and how we can determine it had previously existed.

635 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:53:39pm

re: #632 JasonA

That's just the link to a cartoon he put on the blog that's pretty funny. None of his words.

636 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:53:55pm

re: #626 SanFranciscoZionist

The Irish have a terrible habit of rooting for the perceived underdog.

///Plus the fact that they're Irish. :D

637 boxhead  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:54:33pm

re: #632 JasonA

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

http://xkcd.com/748/

At least put the right link...

638 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:54:35pm

re: #609 Gus 802

Andrew Cockburn is Alexander Cockburn's brother. I doubt the authenticity. This is high moonbat territory.

Thing I did not known that I found out from that article: Andrew Cockburn is Olivia Wilde's father. Well, he's done at least one thing right in his life.

639 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:54:40pm

re: #632 JasonA

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

LOL
In XKCD we trust.

640 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:54:49pm

re: #605 windsagio

Perhaps its not Reuters that has the undue prejudice...

meh. the LGF archives will quickly disabuse you of that notion...

641 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:55:12pm

re: #637 boxhead

Aye aye, Cap'n.

642 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:55:40pm

Syrian TV Program Includes Calls for Suicide Attacks Inside Israel; Head of the Palestinian Islamic Counsel On Lebanon Calls for Taking Israeli Hostages


The following are two new MEMRI TV reports on the Gaza flotilla. In the first, Syrian historian Soheil Zakkar calls for suicide operations inside Israel; in the second, a leading Palestinian Islamic cleric in Lebanon, Sheikh Muhammad Nimr Zaghmout, calls on Egyptians and Jordanians to storm Israeli embassies and take the ambassadors and employees hostage.

[snip]

643 Racer X  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:55:43pm
644 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:56:01pm

re: #632 JasonA

"James Carville emerges from the conflagration riding a burning alligator."

Fuuuck... Now that is scary.

645 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:56:35pm

re: #638 Dark_Falcon

Thing I did not known that I found out from that article: Andrew Cockburn is Olivia Wilde's father. Well, he's done at least one thing right in his life.

House!

646 boxhead  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:56:48pm

re: #641 JasonA

I am just a Sergeant... heh

647 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:56:52pm

re: #637 boxhead

http://xkcd.com/748/

At least put the right link...

Yeah, JasonA constantly links and directs traffic to Sullivan while pretending to be horrified by his stance on the flotilla incident.
/

648 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:57:20pm

re: #630 SanFranciscoZionist

I'll accept 'friend of Israel and enemy of terrorists'. Exactly what made Bush such a great friend, though?

Will anyone ever think this through?

gah

649 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:57:39pm

re: #640 Aceofwhat?

They should, anyway. But the obvious isn't always so obvious to some.

650 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:57:40pm

re: #647 Nimed

I wish I could quit him...

651 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:57:43pm

re: #398 WindUpBird

If only what was good for Buckley was also good for Byrd :P

LOL to the yeah!

652 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:58:27pm

re: #635 JasonA

That's just the link to a cartoon he put on the blog that's pretty funny. None of his words.

Geeze. you're ok

653 Boogberg  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:58:34pm

re: #644 Slumbering Behemoth

Carville was the Rove of his day.

654 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:58:44pm

Well I hate to leave such a large jovial crowd but I'll need to be sharp for work in the morning. Be well all.

655 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:58:44pm

re: #644 Slumbering Behemoth

"James Carville emerges from the conflagration riding a burning alligator."

Fuuuck... Now that is scary.

I'd pay money to see that in the theater.

656 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:59:00pm

re: #629 Spare O'Lake

Find out for me where he got that nic, would you?
BTW at Iceseasel's specific request I now always add "Carter" after "Jimmah", so I thought that was OK with them, for fuck's sake.

If you've cleared it with them, then I have no objections.

657 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:59:05pm

re: #412 prairiefire

Southern Baptists apologize for slavery in 2009.[Link: www.npr.org...]

Like me, they work slowly but methodically.

658 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:59:45pm

re: #657 SanFranciscoZionist

I should have asked my question earlier so she would have seen it by now :(

659 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 9:59:59pm

re: #640 Aceofwhat?

meh. the LGF archives will quickly disabuse you of that notion...

Sometimes they are out of date you know. New info.

660 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:00:30pm

re: #444 BryanS

What does Senator Byrd have to do with William F Buckley except to deflect into a partisan pissing contest?

Lefty: You're guy is a racist
Righty: He recanted
Lefty: Oh yeah, well our racist guy did too, but you hate him so I can hate your guy.

The lefties around here have just heard Byrd's name a few too many times...

661 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:02:05pm

re: #660 SanFranciscoZionist

The lefties around here have just heard Byrd's name a few too many times...

There is a season, turn, turn, turn...

Oops, wrong Byrd.

662 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:02:42pm

re: #650 JasonA

I wish I could quit him...

{JasonA}
It's not your fault

What made me linger for a while was his cover of the Iranian elections. That and the beard, of course.

663 Gus  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:03:14pm

re: #640 Aceofwhat?

meh. the LGF archives will quickly disabuse you of that notion...

Al Reuters!

/

664 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:04:11pm

re: #609 Gus 802

Thirty years ago the relationship between Israel and the U.S. wasn't as strong as it has grown since then, especially in the early 80s under Reagan when military (see Joint Political-Military Group) and economic ties were significantly upgraded. Today if Israel faced an invasion there is no question that the U.S. would come to its direct aid immediately even if NATO ally Turkey and oil supplier Saudi Arabia were on the other side. Such unconditional direct military involvement would have been unthinkable during the 1970s and would perhaps be unthinkable even today had Carter been elected President. So while he probably didn't actually say "I am going to [expletive] the Jews", such a sentiment would certainly be consistent with Carter's probable political plan for Israel.

665 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:05:27pm

re: #659 Stanley Sea

Sometimes they are out of date you know. New info.

Oh, sure. But Reuters' long history of prejudice on Israeli-Palestinian matters is well-documented here. Hopefully they're turning over a new leaf...

666 Racer X  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:08:09pm

Booga Booga!

667 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:08:33pm
668 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:10:57pm

re: #666 Racer X

Booga Booga!

Son of perdition! Little horn! Most unclean!

669 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:13:51pm

re: #573 windsagio

FREE MUMIA!

ahahahahahahahahahahahah this was because of our IM wasn't it

670 Racer X  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:14:13pm

A little boy goes to his father and asks, "Daddy, how was I born?"

The father answers, "Well son, your Mom and I first got together in a chat room on Yahoo. Then I set up a date via e-mail with your Mom and we met at a cyber-cafe. We sneaked into a secluded room, where your mother agreed to a download from my hard drive. As soon as I was ready to upload, we discovered that neither one of us had used a firewall. Since it was too late to hit the delete button, nine months later a little Pop-Up appeared that said:
.
.
.

You got Male!

671 boxhead  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:15:09pm

re: #670 Racer X

o_0

672 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:15:17pm

The problem with these Kettle Spicy Thai chips is I want to eat the whole bag, and it's causing me physical pain

673 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:16:08pm

re: #670 Racer X

A little boy goes to his father and asks, "Daddy, how was I born?"

The father answers, "Well son, your Mom and I first got together in a chat room on Yahoo. Then I set up a date via e-mail with your Mom and we met at a cyber-cafe. We sneaked into a secluded room, where your mother agreed to a download from my hard drive. As soon as I was ready to upload, we discovered that neither one of us had used a firewall. Since it was too late to hit the delete button, nine months later a little Pop-Up appeared that said:
.
.
.

You got Male!

I'd LOL, but I can't due to coughing.

674 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:16:21pm

re: #672 WindUpBird

The problem with these Kettle Spicy Thai chips is I want to eat the whole bag, and it's causing me physical pain

i have the same problem with Breyer's Mint Chocolate Chip ice cream...

675 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:16:49pm

re: #674 Aceofwhat?

i have the same problem with Breyer's Mint Chocolate Chip ice cream...

That's my favorite flavor right there.

676 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:17:11pm

re: #673 Dark_Falcon

re: #674 Aceofwhat?

Give in to your hunger. Only then will you become powerful with the Dark Side.

677 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:18:19pm

Hmmmm

Romanoff confirms White House job discussions


And from this one:
Romanoff details job discussions with White House


Mr. Messina also suggested three positions that might be available to me were I not pursuing the Senate race. He added that he could not guarantee my appointment to any of these positions. At no time was I promised a job, nor did I request Mr. Messina’s assistance in obtaining one.

Later that day, I received an email from Mr. Messina containing descriptions of three positions (email attached). I left him a voicemail informing him that I would not change course.

Here's the text of an e-mail from Messina to Romanoff outlining potential jobs:

Deputy Assistant Administrator for Latin America and Caribbean, USAID

The email goes on into detail on the specific positions that could be considered.

Does not look good. Someone's going to the poky for this one.

678 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:18:21pm

re: #634 SanFranciscoZionist

Please define what that understanding was, and how we can determine it had previously existed.

Have a read here. I have to go to sleep.
[Link: israelmatzav.blogspot.com...]

679 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:18:35pm

re: #674 Aceofwhat?

i have the same problem with Breyer's Mint Chocolate Chip ice cream...

hahaha but it's not burning your tongue at least!


I haven't has ice cream in like a year. When I get that Ben and Jerry's Cookie Dough though, LOOK OUT

680 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:19:08pm

re: #676 Varek Raith

re: #674 Aceofwhat?

Give in to your hunger. Only then will you become powerful with the Dark Side.

Peace is a lie...there is only passion

681 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:19:36pm

Whoops, quoted the wrong person.
:)

682 Racer X  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:19:44pm

re: #673 Dark_Falcon

I'd LOL, but I can't due to coughing.

Man, sorry to hear you still have that cough. Did the antobiotics help any?

683 windsagio  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:20:49pm

re: #669 WindUpBird

You thought I was joking!

684 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:20:56pm

re: #675 JasonA

That's my favorite flavor right there.

i have shockingly good taste for a center-right type!

685 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:21:08pm

re: #677 BryanS

Under which law, exactly?

686 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:21:23pm

Saw a cartoon today at Sully's today - hilarious.

[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

687 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:24:01pm

re: #643 Racer X

Sorry


[Video]

Heh. I wish I could remember the title of the skit, or the names of the guys in it, but it was a million years ago when I last heard it on the Dr. Demento show. The Cliff Notes...

A guy is driving home from work very late one night when he decides to pick up another guy stranded on the side of the road. Over the course of a rather hilarious conversation it becomes obvious to The Driver that The Hitchhiker is in fact the Angel of Death, who is on his way to visit The Driver's best friend. We'll call him "Bill".

The last part of the conversation involves The Driver talking about what a great man his friend Bill is, how charitable and decent Bill is, how much Bill's family depends on him, and how Bill does not deserve to die. The Driver finally pleads with The Hitchhiker "Please, don't take Bill, take me instead".

The Hitchhiker replies "Oh, I am not Death. I am Impotence."

At which point you hear the car screech to a halt, as The Driver says "That's Bill's house, right there".

688 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:24:40pm

re: #677 BryanS

Hmmm

Romanoff confirms White House job discussions

And from this one:
Romanoff details job discussions with White House

The email goes on into detail on the specific positions that could be considered.

Does not look good. Someone's going to the poky for this one.

Oh, my. If this stands up, then the White House is in trouble. The Sestak story had largely died, but this'll bring it roaring back. To separate job offers like this would change the story from an "Outrageous Outrage" into a serious problem for Obama. Brazen offers like this are The Chicago Way, but they are not the Washington DC Way.

689 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:24:49pm

re: #685 Obdicut

Under which law, exactly?

Not a lawyer here, but it's my understanding that it is not legal to offer any position of any value to someone to induce them into making any political decision.

Now maybe the claim will be "there was no offer", but that looks too cute by half. At some point, when you do so much winking and nodding about "not promising, wink , wink one of these three positions that I will completely lay out in full detail for you to consider in lieu of not running for office"...at that point I don't think you can claim it is not an offer.

690 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:25:48pm

re: #682 Racer X

Man, sorry to hear you still have that cough. Did the antobiotics help any?

Not really, I'm going to contact my doctor again tomorrow.

691 boxhead  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:26:15pm

re: #688 Dark_Falcon


From what I have heard, if this is a crime, it is one every Administration is guilty of. Wish I had references on this....

692 Aceofwhat?  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:26:16pm

good night, good folks

693 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:26:41pm

re: #688 Dark_Falcon

re: #689 BryanS

It's actually completely legal, and has been done in every administration since Washington, I believe.

694 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:26:45pm

re: #692 Aceofwhat?

good night, good folks

What about me!?!?

695 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:26:51pm

re: #688 Dark_Falcon

Oh, my. If this stands up, then the White House is in trouble. The Sestak story had largely died, but this'll bring it roaring back. To separate job offers like this would change the story from an "Outrageous Outrage" into a serious problem for Obama. Brazen offers like this are The Chicago Way, but they are not the Washington DC Way.

Yeah...once might be a fluke/misunderstanding, twice seems like this was SOP.

696 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:28:26pm

re: #674 Aceofwhat?

i have the same problem with Breyer's Mint Chocolate Chip ice cream...

I have the same problem with Tri-Tip. Seriously, WTF is wrong with you people and junk food?
/teasing

697 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:28:39pm

re: #695 BryanS

Yeah...once might be a fluke/misunderstanding, twice seems like this was SOP.

Okay, then how about three times? There was an offer made to Judd Greg early in the administration, and then you have Jon Huntsman.

This is only an issue to people who don't pay attention in the first place and people who want to manipulate those people.

698 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:29:27pm

re: #689 BryanS

Did you notice the article made it very fucking clear he wasn't offered a job, then?

Sheesh. This is the weirdest attempt to re-inflate a dead horse so it can stagger a few more yards before falling down again to be re-beaten.

Unless someone can show me a law whereby telling someone if they didn't run and didn't they'd have a chance at a number of other awesome jobs, I cannot possibly see how anyone would go to jail over this. It's like saying that Obama should be arrested for making John Huntsman ambassador to China.

699 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:31:22pm

re: #698 Obdicut

Another thing that makes it really silly to me is that it helps the other party, too.

700 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:31:42pm

re: #597 Joo-LiZ

From Reuters.

REUTERS!!

Israel's Blockade is Legal.

Cool.

I've been digging a little into this myself, since the legality of the flotilla boarding can't be judged independently of the legality of the blockade. Here are some links in addition to Reuters:

Alan Dershowitz (on HuffPo!) - flotilla is legal, no question about it.

Washington Post - "International law experts differ over the legality of the Israel action", then cites the experts.

Opinio Juris - flotilla is probably not legal, but hard to say.

Basically, the discussion is all about what is the proper legal label for the conflict between Israel and Hamas: a "state vs. state" war, a civil war, an international armed conflict, etc. There's no adequate precedent, it seems, and plenty of elbow room. The last link even mentions the blockades made to the Confederate States of America as precedent...

701 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:31:51pm

re: #691 boxhead

re: #693 JasonA

Should this be legal? It seems like they fully understood that they could not offer anything formally. All offers were couched in caveats, like they knew to be explicit about it would put them in legal jeopardy.

Ed Randell was on one of the networks talking about the Sestak thing, and he made it seem that the law forbidding making explicit offers was well understood by politicians, that he would talk about in general how there would be room for someone to help his administration, but he would never promise anything specific. This looks specific.

702 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:33:14pm

re: #701 BryanS

*shrug* Don't know about that. I'm not going to worry much over it.

703 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:33:27pm

re: #697 JasonA

Okay, then how about three times? There was an offer made to Judd Greg early in the administration, and then you have Jon Huntsman.

This is only an issue to people who don't pay attention in the first place and people who want to manipulate those people.

Theres a difference between offering a position in an administration as opposed to offering a job IF there's a political consideration if accepted (political consideration being dropping out of a race the admin doesn't want you to be in

In the case of Greg (for instance) it was a straight job offer

704 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:33:53pm

re: #701 BryanS

How the fuck do you get 'this looks specific' from 'Romanoff said no firm job offer was ever made, or sought.'?

Seriously, how?

705 boxhead  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:34:59pm

re: #701 BryanS


It just doesn't seem like a big deal...

O: hey buddy, instead of running for that, we could use you here.

buddy: sure, sounds like fun..

706 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:37:23pm

re: #704 Obdicut

How the fuck do you get 'this looks specific' from 'Romanoff said no firm job offer was ever made, or sought.'?

Seriously, how?

Mr. Messina also suggested three positions that might be available to me were I not pursuing the Senate race

It's more the appearance of a possible Quid Pro Quo

Don't pursue the senate race and there may be one of three positions for you

707 swamprat  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:37:43pm

re: #688 Dark_Falcon

Oh, my. If this stands up, then the White House is in trouble. The Sestak story had largely died, but this'll bring it roaring back. To separate job offers like this would change the story from an "Outrageous Outrage" into a serious problem for Obama. Brazen offers like this are The Chicago Way, but they are not the Washington DC Way.

I don't care. No one really cares. The outrage is bogus. The claims of punishable wrongdoing are tenuous at best. The opportunity for tu quoque are legion. The Whitehouse is not in trouble.
Sorry. The "Chicago Way" part is accurate, but this sort of thing has ALWAYS gone on. Trying to make hay out of this seems silly to me.
Of course I may be missing something.

708 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:38:06pm

re: #704 Obdicut

re: #706 sattv4u2

Mr. Messina also suggested three positions that might be available to me were I not pursuing the Senate race

It's more the appearance of a possible Quid Pro Quo

Don't pursue the senate race and there may be one of three positions for you

Later that day, I received an email from Mr. Messina containing descriptions of three positions

709 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:38:33pm

re: #704 Obdicut

How the fuck do you get 'this looks specific' from 'Romanoff said no firm job offer was ever made, or sought.'?

Seriously, how?

You have to RTFA. The descriptions of the jobs in the email provided to the reporter has three half page long paragraphs describing three specific jobs.

Deputy Assistant Administrator for Latin America and Caribbean, USAID

Director, Office of Democracy and Governance, USAID

and

Director, U.S. Trade and Development Agency (USTDA)

Would it make you feel better about their being improper behavior if they were piles of money?

710 boxhead  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:38:44pm

re: #707 swamprat

Preach on Brother water rodent!

711 Flavia  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:40:51pm

re: #80 Spricio

i'm with you
its remarkable that a simple act of reasonableness has us all topsy turvy

I'm even worse than you all - my first thought was "What outrageous demands are they going to make on Israel (that they will then forget when it suits them, as with the "building ban") when it suits them?"

Sigh.

712 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:40:58pm

re: #709 BryanS


Don't tell me to read the damn article. I read the damn article.

Cite a damn law that this is illegal under already. This is getting ludicrous, people keep alluding darkly to this being illegal but nobody has any fucking proof.

No firm offer of a job was given. They obviously would prefer he didn't run and made it clear that they still liked him and wanted him working for them, he wasn't the enemy just because they didn't want him to run. This is perfectly goddamn common, and there is no law against it.

Cite a damn law.

713 boxhead  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:41:24pm

re: #709 BryanS

What is the difference between, "We will give you lots of money to run for this office", vs "we will give you lots of money, a different job, if you do not"?

714 swamprat  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:41:28pm

Night everyone.

715 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:42:41pm

re: #709 BryanS

The point is that it wasn't exactly like those job offers were more prestigious than the chance to be a Senator, so where is the quid pro quo? Bribery is probably the "law" that one would want to avoid when discussing a potential job offer involving government positions but it sure doesn't look like any of these instances come anywhere close to bribery.

716 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:42:57pm

re: #700 Nimed

I've been digging a little into this myself, since the legality of the flotilla boarding can't be judged independently of the legality of the blockade. Here are some links in addition to Reuters:

Alan Dershowitz (on HuffPo!) - flotilla is legal, no question about it.

Washington Post - "International law experts differ over the legality of the Israel action", then cites the experts.

Opinio Juris - flotilla is probably not legal, but hard to say.

Basically, the discussion is all about what is the proper legal label for the conflict between Israel and Hamas: a "state vs. state" war, a civil war, an international armed conflict, etc. There's no adequate precedent, it seems, and plenty of elbow room. The last link even mentions the blockades made to the Confederate States of America as precedent...

The bolded part is why Israel doesn't try to seize these ships near Gaza harbor, BTW. To try that would expose any Israeli ships to attack by Hamas small craft. Israel does not want its ships to court the fate of the Housatonic (sunk in 1864 by a spar torpedo from the Confederate submarine Hunley, which was sunk by the explosion as well).

717 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:44:43pm

re: #715 tommysilver

where is the quid pro quo?

You do something for us (back out of the race so "our" candidate will be nominated) and we'll do something for you

718 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:47:08pm

re: #715 tommysilver

where is the quid pro quo?

You do something for us (back out of the race so "our" candidate will be nominated) and we'll do something for you

(ggrrr,,pimf , especially after being awake for 20 hours, the last 4 at work!!)

719 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:48:51pm

re: #712 Obdicut

Don't tell me to read the damn article. I read the damn article.

Cite a damn law that this is illegal under already. This is getting ludicrous, people keep alluding darkly to this being illegal but nobody has any fucking proof.

No firm offer of a job was given. They obviously would prefer he didn't run and made it clear that they still liked him and wanted him working for them, he wasn't the enemy just because they didn't want him to run. This is perfectly goddamn common, and there is no law against it.

Cite a damn law.

I'm not a fucking lawyer. Just google for the fucking statute.

Here

Are you happy to see the text of the fucking law?

Sec. 600. Promise of employment or other benefit for political
activity

-STATUTE-
Whoever, directly or indirectly, promises any employment,
position, compensation, contract, appointment, or other benefit,
provided for or made possible in whole or in part by any Act of
Congress, or any special consideration in obtaining any such
benefit, to any person as consideration, favor, or reward for any
political activity or for the support of or opposition to any
candidate or any political party in connection with any general or
special election to any political office, or in connection with any
primary election or political convention or caucus held to select
candidates for any political office, shall be fined under this
title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

720 Nimed  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:49:30pm

re: #716 Dark_Falcon

The bolded part is why Israel doesn't try to seize these ships near Gaza harbor, BTW. To try that would expose any Israeli ships to attack by Hamas small craft. Israel does not want its ships to court the fate of the Housatonic (sunk in 1864 by a spar torpedo from the Confederate submarine Hunley, which was sunk by the explosion as well).

We sure can count on you to provide the appropriate historical example of destruction and mayhem. :)

721 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:49:40pm

re: #718 sattv4u2

And the something is?

A) Deputy Assistant Administrator for Latin America and Caribbean, USAID

B) Director, Office of Democracy and Governance, USAID

or

C) Director, U.S. Trade and Development Agency (USTDA).

Those sure sound like compelling opportunities for someone who thinks he has a good shot at being a U.S. Senator!!!

722 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:50:41pm

re: #719 BryanS

That law does not apply, since there was no job offer made and the person was clearly already a fit candidate for all of those positions.

What don't you get about that?

723 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:51:07pm

re: #720 Nimed

We sure can count on you to provide the appropriate historical example of destruction and mayhem. :)

I'm a history buff. Sometimes it comes in handy.

724 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:51:21pm

re: #511 JasonA

Hey, SFZ! How was the protest tonight?

Very nice--the opposition didn't show up! We had about seventy people, loud Israeli pop and hip-hop, and some Armenians.

Saturday's gonna be a tough one.

725 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:52:25pm

re: #521 Joo-LiZ

Nope. I think Turkey is acting in full coordination with Iran. Erdogan has cast his lot with the Iran/Syria/Hamas/Hizballah alliance.

I really, really hope you're wrong about that, for obvious reasons.

This isn't chess--this is BOSWORTH! Anyone here ever played Bosworth?

726 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:53:12pm

re: #721 tommysilver

And the something is?

A) Deputy Assistant Administrator for Latin America and Caribbean, USAID

B) Director, Office of Democracy and Governance, USAID

or

C) Director, U.S. Trade and Development Agency (USTDA).

Those sure sound like compelling opportunities for someone who thinks he has a good shot at being a U.S. Senator!!!

Waytomissthepoint

It matters not that the possible job offer would be a better or worse position than being a sitting senator
IF it was made in exchange for a political consideration (drop out so that OUR guy can be that senator) then theres an issue

727 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:53:33pm

re: #726 sattv4u2

There was no freaking job offer.

728 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:54:14pm

re: #722 Obdicut

That law does not apply, since there was no job offer made and the person was clearly already a fit candidate for all of those positions.

What don't you get about that?

Yeah, so it hinges on whether an offer was made. But at some point the winking and nodding gets too cure by half as I say. Too much winking and nodding looks like there was clear intent to skirt the law.

729 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:54:54pm

re: #727 Obdicut

There was no freaking job offer.

Where did I state there was?

730 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:55:34pm

re: #719 BryanS
re: #722 Obdicut

The operative words are "promises" and "benefits". So far no sign of those being the case here although additional details will probably blur the line.

731 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:55:50pm

re: #728 BryanS

This is completely standard, and is not skirting the law, but following the law. You are not allowed to offer a job. You are allowed to say "Hey, these opportunities would be available, and you're a good fit". Because he is a good fit for those. If he had no qualifications, that'd be one thing.

You want this to be illegal. That's not the same thing as it actually being illegal.

732 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:56:21pm

re: #727 Obdicut

There was no freaking job offer.

So if I go into a a meeting with a politician, and tell them "I absolutely cannot offer this yacht to you if you vote my way. ". Then, after the meeting, I send him a picture with full specs and details of the yacht that I "cannot offer to you". You're telling me that is not an implied offer?

733 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:56:45pm

re: #726 sattv4u2

Yes it does matter, since a bribe by definition involves a benefit.

734 boxhead  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:57:24pm

re: #725 SanFranciscoZionist

I really, really hope you're wrong about that, for obvious reasons.

This isn't chess--this is BOSWORTH! Anyone here ever played Bosworth?

Didn't Bo Jackson run him over?

run

735 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:57:30pm

re: #732 BryanS

That you think that is an analogy is moronic.

What it would be similar to:

If you wanted to buy a house, and someone else did too. And you told that person, "Instead of buying that house, you could spend your money on these race cars, or this other house."

The analogy does not work on any level, though.

736 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:58:42pm

re: #678 Spare O'Lake

Have a read here. I have to go to sleep.
[Link: israelmatzav.blogspot.com...]

I'll read when I'm closer to conscious. Thanks for link.

737 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 10:59:43pm

re: #733 tommysilver

Yes it does matter, since a bribe by definition involves a benefit.

A guaranteed job as opposed to no Presidential / DNC backing for a senate run!

Keep in mind. IF it happened, it was to keep him out of a PRIMARY. There is no guarantee that he would have either
A) won the primary
and if he did
B) win the general election

Bird in hand, and all that

738 Stanghazi  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:06:20pm

re: #734 boxhead

Didn't Bo Jackson run him over?

run


Yeah, but the Gators beat Bo's ass on my B-Day, thank you very much.

739 Morrisminor  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:06:48pm

But I thought Biden and Obama were Marxist Islamic agents all ready to throw Israel under the bus, train, truck or tractor?

740 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:07:08pm

re: #731 Obdicut

This is completely standard, and is not skirting the law, but following the law. You are not allowed to offer a job. You are allowed to say "Hey, these opportunities would be available, and you're a good fit". Because he is a good fit for those. If he had no qualifications, that'd be one thing.

You want this to be illegal. That's not the same thing as it actually being illegal.

Certainly that is true, I think this kind of influence pedaling is corrupting. Did they cross the line into the territory of offering a specific promise? I think they did. Again, I'm not a lawyer and I cannot say how that law should be interpreted and what constitutes an "offer" legally.

Again, just referring to an interview I saw Ed Rendell give, he explained that he could never offer any specific positions, but could only suggest that after the decision was made not to run, that his talents could be put to use serving the public. This seems to cross the line as defined by the Pennsylvania governer and former DNC chair.

741 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:08:07pm

re: #737 sattv4u2

"At no time was I promised a job, nor did I request Mr. Messina’s assistance in obtaining one."

I think everybody agrees this is the slimy side of politics (both the Chicago AND Washington type) but calling it illegal is just as slimy if not also desperate.

742 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:08:58pm

re: #741 tommysilver

"At no time was I promised a job, nor did I request Mr. Messina’s assistance in obtaining one."

I think everybody agrees this is the slimy side of politics (both the Chicago AND Washington type) but calling it illegal is just as slimy if not also desperate.

And again I ask, where did I?

743 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:10:58pm

re: #742 sattv4u2

I didn't say you did anything other than ask questions or offer opinions (as we all more or less are doing on an anonymous discussion board), but clearly some people ARE running with this as legitimate political fodder.

744 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:19:24pm

re: #743 tommysilver

I didn't say you did anything other than ask questions or offer opinions (as we all more or less are doing on an anonymous discussion board), but clearly some people ARE running with this as legitimate political fodder.

I do think slimy behavior is legitimate political fodder. One does have to wonder why two Dem challengers decided to make these offers public at the time they were made. Maybe they were just trying to boost their credibility as "outsiders".

Should it be a legal issue? Well, that's for the lawyers to figure out. I doubt we'll actually get non-partisan enforcement of the law. There is no clear cut evidence of a specific quid-pro-quo. However at some point, I do think too much winking and nodding accomplishes the same thing.

745 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:19:43pm

re: #743 tommysilver

I didn't say you did anything other than ask questions or offer opinions (as we all more or less are doing on an anonymous discussion board), but clearly some people ARE running with this as legitimate political fodder.

Several reasons why, imho

1st and foremost, we've heard over and over again how this was going to be THE most transparent administration is ages. They even ran hard against the "secrecy" of the Bush/ Cheney reign (even though they weren't running against Bush)
During lasts weeks press conference when this question came up we were told the answer would be "soon, very soon and not weeks". Here we are a full week later and they are still fumbling for an answer. Gibbs was particularly incoherent. He states that he doesn't have anything to add to comments he made last week, and that he already answered it, when he said he didn't have anything to say

746 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:22:56pm

re: #745 sattv4u2

Several reasons why, imho

1st and foremost, we've heard over and over again how this was going to be THE most transparent administration is ages. They even ran hard against the "secrecy" of the Bush/ Cheney reign (even though they weren't running against Bush)
During lasts weeks press conference when this question came up we were told the answer would be "soon, very soon and not weeks". Here we are a full week later and they are still fumbling for an answer. Gibbs was particularly incoherent. He states that he doesn't have anything to add to comments he made last week, and that he already answered it, when he said he didn't have anything to say

[Video]


They did the document dump on Friday before the holiday. So maybe you missed it, as was intended :) Though Clinton being the messenger to Sestak certainly made for fun political theater.

747 sagehen  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:25:12pm

re: #689 BryanS

Not a lawyer here, but it's my understanding that it is not legal to offer any position of any value to someone to induce them into making any political decision.

So Rupert Murdoch's various companies offering Sarah Palin oodles of money to write a book, or do a TV show, but of course she can't take either offer while she's governor, nudge nudge wink wink, and next thing y'know she's resigning as governor and writing a book and doing a TV show...

Is that what you mean?

748 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:28:45pm

re: #747 sagehen

So Rupert Murdoch's various companies offering Sarah Palin oodles of money to write a book, or do a TV show, but of course she can't take either offer while she's governor, nudge nudge wink wink, and next thing y'know she's resigning as governor and writing a book and doing a TV show...

Is that what you mean?

What are you talking about? It's not illegal for a sitting politician to write a book and get paid for it

Case in point

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

749 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:30:06pm

re: #313 windsagio

To make the point, I got annoyed and am defending Carter again (sorta).

I don't know what compels me to do that. I suspect heavy metal poisoning.

No, nothing so dramatic. You've got a good heart and you love bunnies.

750 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:30:15pm

re: #747 sagehen

So Rupert Murdoch's various companies offering Sarah Palin oodles of money to write a book, or do a TV show, but of course she can't take either offer while she's governor, nudge nudge wink wink, and next thing y'know she's resigning as governor and writing a book and doing a TV show...

Is that what you mean?

If Fox News was able to achieve a political objective for her governor's seat, sure. If for instance her replacement was more line politically than Palin, I think that would be a legitimate legal inquiry. Not sure that's what happened--if Fox News had a political objective, I'd think they'd want her in office.

751 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:32:44pm

re: #745 sattv4u2

That's a fair point -- there is certainly room for criticism that Obama is not living up to his billing and that his administration should not be defensive about possible "indiscretions" but instead should recommit to leading by example. There is even room to point out that like every other politician, Obama's shit does also stink. But the stuff about independent prosecutors and criminal probes is just grasping for straws.

752 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:34:03pm

re: #319 Walter L. Newton

You're WHAT! Well... ok... there's a few good things I like about Jimmy Carter... he's got a neat accent.

And peanuts are a basically non-violent life-form.

753 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:36:55pm

re: #752 ryannon

And peanuts are a basically non-violent life-form.

unless you have peanut allergies!

754 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:38:14pm

re: #323 captdiggs

I'm not playing semantic games. Try google. You'll find hundreds of articles on the deterioration of US-Israeli relations during the last 16 months.

I can see what he's trying to say, and even leaving the question of the nature of U.S. - Israeli relations out of this, there has been an overall deterioration world-wide. Which is why the present events are so preoccupying.

755 tommysilver  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:38:58pm

re: #750 BryanS

In the case of Palin and Fox the question is whether it constitutes bribery. The U.S. Code quoted earlier applies only to benefits "provided for or made possible in whole or in part by any Act of Congress". I know it sometimes seems like Fox News is an Act of (a Republican majority) Congress but actually regular bribery laws apply otherwise. To my knowledge, there is no indication that Fox has bribed Palin.

756 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:39:46pm

re: #330 Aceofwhat?

I don't want to spoil your picnic, dear lady, but plenty of us conservatives do the exact same things;)

Helping the planet, one square of toilet paper at a time.

757 Tigger2005  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:40:18pm

re: #604 Joo-LiZ

Read that whole article. Legally vindicates Israel on all counts.

However we are dealing with people who don't care about the silly legal system, which is a Western infidel invention designed to oppress the rest of the world, and is to be paid attention to only to the extent that it can be manipulated and abused for their own purposes. There is only ONE true law for them, and that is Shari'a.

758 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:41:55pm

re: #337 NJDhockeyfan

And nice teeth!

He's rich and dresses well. He's also polite to old ladies.

759 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:44:27pm

Moving upstairs while ryannon slowly but surely catches up!
/

760 ryannon  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:52:52pm

re: #759 sattv4u2

Moving upstairs while ryannon slowly but surely catches up!
/

A guy's got to sleep sometimes.

761 BryanS  Wed, Jun 2, 2010 11:53:36pm

re: #755 tommysilver

In the case of Palin and Fox the question is whether it constitutes bribery. The U.S. Code quoted earlier applies only to benefits "provided for or made possible in whole or in part by any Act of Congress". I know it sometimes seems like Fox News is an Act of (a Republican majority) Congress but actually regular bribery laws apply otherwise. To my knowledge, there is no indication that Fox has bribed Palin.

LOL

Yeah, I don't think Palin/Fox News constitutes bribery. I think the Sestak thing doesn't have anything to go on. The only public info available is that it was a fairly general suggestion that Sestak could could serve the public, and then it is suggested that it would be an unpaid advisory committee.

The Romanoff thing looks like specific paid positions were discussed. Again, there is no public info suggesting there is an explicit quid pro quo, but there does seem to be an implied one.

762 Bagua  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 12:37:25am

re: #610 Stanley Sea

You know, whenever the current topic turns to former President Carter, I glaze over.

Then I'm reading about some connect between the IRA and the pro-Gaza people? what?

Come on, links, document your assertions.

I posted a link with that allegation,

or

IRA-PLO cooperation: A long, cozy relationship

or

PLO examined in hunt for deadly sniper

or

The IRA has received aid from a variety of groups and countries and considerable training and arms from Libya and, at one time, the PLO.

or

Other senior republicans have also travelled to cultivate links with the PLO in the Middle East and Eta in Spain.

Instead of glazing over do a bit of research.

763 AbuNafha2  Thu, Jun 3, 2010 9:23:37am

Is the world waking up?
Following U.S. Vice President Joe Biden and others, the President of the Czech Senate, Dr. Přemysl Sobotka, says the Turkish flotilla was a planned provocation designed to entrap Israel.

Dr. Sobotka told Knesset Speaker Ruby Rivlin on Wednesday, “As a doctor, I certainly regret any loss of life, but there is no doubt that this was a planned provocation designed to drag Israel into a trap.”

“Many in the European community feel as I do,” he added, “but they are afraid to speak out publicly.”
[Link: www.israelnationalnews.com...]

764 Sacred Plants  Fri, Jun 4, 2010 9:52:19am

The big deal is if your nation continues to attempt to blockade us then we will rope down on it.


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