Ron Paul Pines for the Good Old Days of the Galveston Hurricane

Dead end libertarian ideology defined
Wingnuts • Views: 32,066

The hurricane that struck Galveston, Texas in 1900, with winds up to 145 mph, was the deadliest in US history. Official reports put the death toll at about 8,000, but many believe the true number was much higher. So many people were killed that it was impossible to bury them all; the stench of bodies could be smelled for miles. For weeks after the storm, funeral pyres burned as workers kept pulling decomposing corpses from the rubble.

Sounds horrific, doesn’t it?

But to Crazy Uncle Ron Paul, those were the good old days.

GILFORD, N.H. — After a lunch speech today, Ron Paul slammed the Federal Emergency Management Agency, or FEMA, and said that no national response to Hurricane Irene is necessary.

“We should be like 1900; we should be like 1940, 1950, 1960,” Paul said. “I live on the Gulf Coast; we deal with hurricanes all the time. Galveston is in my district.”

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157 comments
1 emcesq  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 10:45:16am

Not to condone his statements, but at least he is self-consistent within his world-view.

2 jaunte  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 10:45:48am

Ron Paul is selling his house in Lake Jackson, situated only a few feet from Oyster Creek. He must be moving to higher ground.
[Link: buyronpaulshouse.com…]

3 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 10:48:04am

LGF on the 1900 Galveston hurricane, 2005
No doubt those anonymous funeral pyres would warm the hearts of FEMA-hating wingnut media and their numerous dupes. They would be positively ecstatic about the forced labor for body recovery and the summary execution of looters and “kodak fiends.”

4 The Mountain That Blogs  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 10:49:13am

Specifically saying 1900 as opposed to a more vague “the 19th century”, or “100 years ago” and mentioning Galveston together in a sentence meant to convey they need for a lesser response to hurricanes? If I lived in Galveston, I would just hear “Ron Paul wants me to die.”

5 rwmofo  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 10:53:42am

Well, at least we have a teachable moment. Hurricane Irene shows us how our current computer models can’t accurately predict either the size, strength, or precise location of a hurricane within hours of it making landfall. Yet we’re supposed to radically change our entire economy over what computer models are forecasting regarding the impact carbon dioxide theoretically will have on the climate decades out.

6 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 10:57:05am

This Ron Paul statement is beyond crazy evil. Had he been there after the 1900 hurricane in Galveston, TX spouting the same shit he would have been placed on the pyres after a quick lesson in frontier justice.

7 jaunte  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 10:57:44am

“Galveston can’t afford to waste the citizens’ hard-won funds on constructing a seawall based on a purely theoretical hurricane threat.”
— Ron Paul, circa 1898

8 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:00:16am

re: #5 rwmofo

Well, at least we have a teachable moment. Hurricane Irene shows us how our current computer models can’t accurately predict either the size, strength, or precise location of a hurricane within hours of it making landfall. Yet we’re supposed to radically change our entire economy over what computer models are forecasting regarding the impact carbon dioxide theoretically will have on the climate decades out.

Thanks for letting us know the latest brain-dead right wing anti-science talking point.

9 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:01:14am
10 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:01:26am

re: #5 rwmofo

Well, at least we have a teachable moment. Hurricane Irene shows us how our current computer models can’t accurately predict either the size, strength, or precise location of a hurricane within hours of it making landfall. Yet we’re supposed to radically change our entire economy over what computer models are forecasting regarding the impact carbon dioxide theoretically will have on the climate decades out.

What a ridiculous comparison (assuming you’re serious). Nobody is using computer models to predict the time, magnitude, or distribution of global climate change to anything remotely like the degree of precision you cite as unachievable for hurricanes. Has anyone predicted the high temp for Baltimore on this date in 2050? Will Lubbock have less rainfall than Midland in 2067? Nobody is going there, it’s a strawman.

11 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:02:11am

re: #5 rwmofo

Well, at least we have a teachable moment. Hurricane Irene shows us how our current computer models can’t accurately predict either the size, strength, or precise location of a hurricane within hours of it making landfall. Yet we’re supposed to radically change our entire economy over what computer models are forecasting regarding the impact carbon dioxide theoretically will have on the climate decades out.

Yet the computer models predicted where it would go and that it would be a big storm and all those tricksey scientists new it was coming because of all that expensive ass equipment and satellites.

Are you trying to caricature massive ignorance or are you truly that dogmatic? Because ignorance such as what you displayed multiplied by millions of people is a much more powerful storm than the largest hurricane and capable of much worse and longer term damage.

12 jaunte  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:02:21am

The hubris hasn’t changed.

Torqued by drama and taut with suspense, this absorbing narrative of the 1900 hurricane that inundated Galveston, Tex., conveys the sudden, cruel power of the deadliest natural disaster in American history. Told largely from the perspective of Isaac Cline, the senior U.S. Weather Bureau official in Galveston at the time, the story considers an era when “the hubris of men led them to believe they could disregard even nature itself.”[Link: www.amazon.com…]

13 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:02:26am

re: #5 rwmofo

Hey, there’s a hurricane on the way with these possible tracks so you might want to clear out of here because of the danger of storm surge flooding and high winds.

Hurricane Irene shows us how our current computer models can’t accurately predict either the size, strength, or precise location of a hurricane within hours of it making landfall.

You’re funeral.

14 Obdicut  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:02:58am

re: #5 rwmofo

We also can’t predict the path of a cue ball making eight bounces on a pool table, but we can calculate the paths of comets.

There’s lots of examples like that. In the case of the climate, it’s very simple:

1. CO2 can be shown to trap heat in atmosphere.

2. The human race can be shown to have added significant amounts of CO2 to the atmosphere.

3. The temperature can be shown to have risen, exaclty as you’d expect from the increased CO2.

What you’re saying is basically equivalent to saying that because we can’t tell where the hurricane will go, the hurricane doesn’t exist. It’s grade-A stupid.

15 Gus  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:03:03am

re: #5 rwmofo

Well, at least we have a teachable moment. Hurricane Irene shows us how our current computer models can’t accurately predict either the size, strength, or precise location of a hurricane within hours of it making landfall. Yet we’re supposed to radically change our entire economy over what computer models are forecasting regarding the impact carbon dioxide theoretically will have on the climate decades out.

One is not like the other. Meteorological prediction is not the same as climatological predictions. Trying to conclude that climate change is a false theory because of the hurricane predictions is pseudo science at best. NOAA was accurate for the most part regarding Irene. The storm surge predictions were given in percentages of likelihood beginning at 2 feet which did occur in most places. At no point did NOAA predict a hard and fast figure on expected storm surges. The projected path and speed of Irene by NOAA was almost 100 percent accurate. Your conclusion is illogical.

16 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:04:01am
17 Obdicut  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:04:39am

re: #16 pattyb


That’s the modern state of the US libertarians, I’m afraid. I’ve stopped calling myself one, since the majority of them are actually just minarchists, or randites.

18 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:04:55am

Re: 16
That didn’t take long.

19 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:05:44am

re: #18 Shiplord Kirel

Re: 16
That didn’t take long.

At least we got to see what was posted.

20 jaunte  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:06:14am

Young Libertarian again?

21 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:06:46am

re: #18 Shiplord Kirel

Re: 16
That didn’t take long.

It’s a crazy person who keeps trying to register sock puppets, to whine about how I’m being unfair to libertarians. He first registered here as ‘pharmmajor,’ and he’s tried to register 7 or 8 accounts since.

Yeah, that’s going to improve my image of libertarians.

22 Alexzander  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:07:13am

Hat tip to MikeySDCA’s page.

23 Obdicut  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:07:25am

re: #21 Charles

I used the handy editing tool to delete the quote of his post.

24 darthstar  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:07:54am

Damn…I missed a one-post-wonder.

25 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:08:00am

re: #15 Gus 802

Your conclusion is illogical downright moronic.

Now that’s fixed for ya!

26 Alexzander  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:08:11am

re: #23 Obdicut

I used the handy editing tool to delete the quote of his post.

Was comment 16 basically just an explosion of anger?

27 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:08:13am

Ron Paul “being used to demonize libertarians as uncaring sociopaths?” How horrible! Perhaps critics are so deluded as to believe that the most popular spokesman for a movement, with a following in the millions and virtually godlike status, would be a fair examplar of the species.

28 Linden Arden  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:08:15am

re: #14 Obdicut

Your 1-2-3 argument is classic a posteriori knowledge in my opinion. If so, no one can dispute AGW unless they are stubbornly ignorant.

29 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:08:51am

re: #26 Alexzander

Was comment 16 basically just an explosion of anger?

More like a dust devil of stupid.

30 Obdicut  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:10:15am

re: #26 Alexzander

Was comment 16 basically just an explosion of anger?

It was a damp squib of a whine, more like, complaining of the unfair portrayal of libertarians.

If US libertarians care about their image, they should stop promoting lunatics for office, stop the AGW-denial, and stop holding on to embarrassingly disproved economic theories.

The same holds for the GOP at large, of course.

31 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:10:29am

re: #29 Shiplord Kirel

More like a dust devil of stupid.

A Stimulus Package of Tempest in a Teaspoon!

32 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:10:40am

re: #26 Alexzander

Was comment 16 basically just an explosion of anger?

Another sock puppet bites the dust.

33 Obdicut  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:10:46am

re: #28 Linden Arden

That ol’ empirical reality is hard to fight against.

34 darthstar  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:11:24am

re: #29 Shiplord Kirel

More like a dust devil of stupid.

seething seepage

35 FreedomMoon  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:11:40am

Apparently the perks of being a ‘first-world nation’ aren’t enough for Ron. We need to hold up a country like the Philippines as a model, and do all we can to emulate their success story.

36 aagcobb  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:11:50am

This is why we can rest assured that libertarians will never acquire or retain power for long; surprisingly, the electorate expect the government to do something when a disaster affects millions of people.

37 darthstar  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:13:06am

Okay…I’d love to sit around and watch the libertarians freak out with you all, but there’s a baseball game today at AT&T park and I think I’m better off sitting in the stands drinking beer.

Play nice, everyone.

38 Linden Arden  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:14:24am

re: #30 Obdicut

I lost the last bit of respect I had for libertarians when they howled in protest at the $20 billion “shakedown” of BP during the Gulf spill. That was the only liability they were ever going to face for that ecological disaster.

39 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:15:28am

re: #36 aagcobb

This is why we can rest assured that libertarians will never acquire or retain power for long; surprisingly, the electorate expect the government to do something when a disaster affects millions of people.

Bootstrappian Economics. ‘People’ will just ‘help’ each other, or die off in some kind of social…. Darwinism…. but evolution isn’t true… but….

Oh crap. I’ll be back later, gotta work this out on a whiteboard and see some more Beck vids.

40 Gus  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:15:31am

re: #25 BigPapa

Your conclusion is illogical downright moronic.

Now that’s fixed for ya!

Pretty much. FEMA was never completely mobilized although they were at the ready and standing fast. The NOAA predictions were rather accurate. So much so that even I was voicing my opposition to the media hysteria I was viewing which did not match what I was seeing at NOAA. The Pentagon also had nearly 6,000 troops ready.

If you listen to the wingnuts then the USAF and Navy shouldn’t have flown all their aircraft in the region out of harms way. Had they remained many of those aircraft would have been damaged. The evacuations also included the many US Navy ships which left the Norfolk area facilities to avoid any chance of damage.

So I would ask these typical militarists. If FEMA was “wrong” are they willing to conclude that the Department of Defense and the services were wrong too for treating this storm as they did? Highly unlikely. They instead choose to vent their rage at FEMA much like Alex Jones.

41 Atlas Fails  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:17:42am

Luap Nor is the proverbial broken clock that is right twice a day. He’s almost always wrong (see: FEMA, gold standard, income tax), and even when he’s right (Iraq, Gitmo), it’s for the wrong reason. He didn’t oppose the invasion of Iraq because he felt it was an unnecessary war that was declared under false pretenses, but because his knee-jerk reaction is “no foreign intervention, ever.” This same line of thinking made him look like the idiot he is on Libya. His cult supporters may claim he’s “different” and “not an ordinary politician” because he often disagrees with both parties, but he’s no more independent than any other Republican. Just because his default ideology is “government bad!” instead of “government bad (except when it’s enforcing conservative Christian morality)!” doesn’t make him a free-thinker.

42 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:18:43am

re: #5 rwmofo

Well, at least we have a teachable moment. Hurricane Irene shows us how our current computer models can’t accurately predict either the size, strength, or precise location of a hurricane within hours of it making landfall. Yet we’re supposed to radically change our entire economy over what computer models are forecasting regarding the impact carbon dioxide theoretically will have on the climate decades out.

Trollololol

43 jaunte  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:19:42am

re: #41 Atlas Fails

his default ideology is “government bad!”

Until he wants to bring home some earmarked pork.

44 aagcobb  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:20:19am

re: #39 BigPapa

Bootstrappian Economics. ‘People’ will just ‘help’ each other, or die off in some kind of social… Darwinism… but evolution isn’t true… but…

Oh crap. I’ll be back later, gotta work this out on a whiteboard and see some more Beck vids.

That’s what libertarians don’t get. The government isn’t some evil alien overlord, it is “We the People”, organized to help each other.

45 lostlakehiker  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:21:06am

re: #5 rwmofo

Well, at least we have a teachable moment. Hurricane Irene shows us how our current computer models can’t accurately predict either the size, strength, or precise location of a hurricane within hours of it making landfall. Yet we’re supposed to radically change our entire economy over what computer models are forecasting regarding the impact carbon dioxide theoretically will have on the climate decades out.

I can’t predict whether tomorrow will be hotter or not as hot as today. But I can predict that six months from now it will be cooler than it is now.

You’re thinking, but of course. Weather is hard to predict, but winter is part of the progression of the seasons, and is easy to predict.

Exactly! Climate is simpler than weather. It’s also easier to predict the number of heads thrown in 1000 tosses of a coin, give or take 5 percent margin of error, than it is to predict the number of heads thrown in 3 tosses, give or take a 5 percent margin of error. The reason is the same both times: the law of averages applies to averages, not to individual details.

46 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:21:19am

re: #40 Gus 802

Weather can do catastrophic damage to military air assets. In 1958, the famous B-25 Mitchell bomber of WW2 was still in use as a multi-engine pilot trainer at Reese Air Force Base near Lubbock. The AF liked it and planned to keep it on until 1962 or so, when more jets would be required. Then a west Texas hailstorm blew up out of nowhere and destroyed almost the entire fleet at Reese. There weren’t enough B-25s left in storage to make up the deficit so the type got early retirement, with serious training disruptions and unexpected replacement costs in the bargain.

47 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:22:51am

re: #44 aagcobb

That’s what libertarians don’t get. The government isn’t some evil alien overlord, it is “We the People”, organized to help each other.

Yeah, I’m confused. Government is people. Just like corporations… no?

Damn, I need a few weeks of re-education at a survivalist camp to straighten this shit out.

48 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:23:10am

My reaction as I posted on Mikey’s page was similar to what Charles is saying here. Paul wants us to respond to hurricanes like we did during the worst one in our nation’s history? Yeah, he’s consistent, and I don’t disagree with the guy on everything but his philosophy would be terrible for governing a country or state of any size. There’s a very good reason why Ron Paul despite first being elected to office in the 1970’s has advanced little beyond that.

49 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:24:07am

re: #40 Gus 802

With all intended due respect to the families of dead and critically injured-We got lucky in an important way with this one. I don’t recall what they say makes a hurricane with those pressures stay so wide instead of tightening up and really tearing up the ground and having lots more tornadoes. But it did stay wide and contain lessor winds than a tight storm.

From the WH to FEMA to the Pentagon they all apparently learned a lot more than the MSM did. The media seems to not learn anything except how to squeeze harder on the ratings push.

50 Kragar  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:25:27am

As Irene Devastates, Ron Paul Says We Need To ‘Come To Our Senses’ And Abolish FEMA

WALLACE: Congressman, you would really, at this point, do away with FEMA and all the things it’s doing to help hundreds of thousands of people along the East Coast?

PAUL: (Laughs.) Have you ever read the reports that came out of New Orleans and all those wonderful things they did? Giving checks to people who didn’t even live there? Sending in hundreds of millions of dollars worth of trailers that they had to junk because they didn’t meet FEMA’s standards? No. It’s a system of bureaucratic central economic planning which is a policy which is deeply flawed. So no, you don’t get rid of something like that in one day. … I mean, this idea that government can just bail out everybody and vote for money — but I propose that we save a billion dollars from the overseas war-mongering, bring half that home and put it against the deficit, and yes, tide people over until we come to our senses and realize that FEMA’s been around since 1978. It has one of the worst reputations for a bureaucracy ever. … You can’t imagine how many calls we get because FEMA’s getting in the way and they can’t get their checks, they can’t get their bailouts. … Anybody who wants to defend this department and this agency, they have a tough argument to argue for.

51 bluecheese  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:25:47am

This crap comes as no surprise to me. It also sounds more like contemporary Republican governance than whacked out Libertarian clap-trap.

Kevin Drum

Shall we roll the tape? Under Bush Sr., FEMA sucked. Under Clinton, FEMA was rehabilitated and turned into a superstar agency. Under Bush Jr., FEMA sucked again. Under Obama, FEMA’s doing great and responding quickly.

I know, I know, we’re not supposed to politicize natural disasters. Not when that politicization makes Republicans look bad, anyway. So I’ll just let you draw your own conclusions from these four data points. I report, you decide.

Pretty much.

When your central political theory is that government can’t do anything right, then why should anyone be surprised when government fucks it up under your leadership?

52 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:28:02am

re: #51 bluecheese
upding for PJ O’Rourke reference

53 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:28:23am

Paul’s mindset seems to be if something isn’t working, the best approach is to get rid of it rather than reforming it. I’ll concede FEMA isn’t great but to have no federal emergency relief in times of natural disasters is moronic.

54 nines09  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:28:35am

Back to the good old days. Days of cholera and dysentery and mass graves after a disaster. Looters and shooters and carpet baggers picking the bones. Drifters and grifters raking the rest. Some mindset RP has there. His future is so bright, I gotta wear shades.

55 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:29:13am

I remember reading that the USS Ronald Reagan was dispatched to provide tsunami relief in Japan.

would have loved to have been there when the captain came ashore and said “We’re from the US government and we’re here to help you!”

56 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:30:27am

re: #40 Gus 802

If there was over reaction it was mostly the media. Just as the scientists have to predict within probabilities, so do the authorities. They’re right if they mobilized within the realm of probabilities.

Katrina probably still stings, as it should.

Hawaii went through an overmobilization with the Japan tsunami, and there were whiners that said ‘but there was no tsunami.’ Actually there was, it was just very small in many cases with a few areas that got walloped pretty good (homes were destroyed, some a few minutes from my house). The Pacific Tsunami Warning Center was on top of the event immediately and constantly revising information: they were correct, Hawaii had a tsunami. Nobody died, there was some damage.

I get emails from the PTSW within minutes of any earthquake in the Pacific region. Isn’t that freakin cool?

Tax dollars doing real good. NOAA scientists are rock stars in my book and I think their funding is a pittance, well worth it. Keep refining their models, maybe the predictions will get even tighter.

57 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:31:12am

re: #44 aagcobb

That’s what libertarians don’t get. The government isn’t some evil alien overlord, it is “We the People”, organized to help each other.

Well, that’s their first problem. Libbercons despise “we the people”, and look down on us, as if they’re not “we the people” themselves.

They claim to be self-made, and held back by the government (poor them!) from being even more self-made. But they are among the biggest parasites in society.

58 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:31:37am

He is big on the “moral risk” issue: if we reward peole for reckless behavior or shield them from the consequences, then we are encouraging it.

It does apply to a limited extent to people building in floodplains or low-lying coastal areas, but there is no spot in the entire USA that is completely safe from some sort of natural and/or man-made disaster.

59 Linden Arden  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:34:04am

re: #53 HappyWarrior

Paul’s mindset seems to be if something isn’t working, the best approach is to get rid of it rather than reforming it. I’ll concede FEMA isn’t great but to have no federal emergency relief in times of natural disasters is moronic.

Having spent a lot of time arguing with them they say the Constitution grants the feds only “enumerated powers” (which are listed and granted) and disaster aid is not one of them so therefore must be left to the states.

But to claim the people via Congress cannot legislate other powers to the feds is absurd.

60 mikec6666  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:34:23am

This is tangential to the post, but, it’s clear that climate change has been completely politicized. What we know, however, is the climate predictions will, for the most part, occur whether people believe or not.

Maybe the strategy should be to couch green technology in terms of monetary savings, national self reliance, jobs, and the natural advancement of science and technology (e.g. cars over horses). If it’s too hard for a segment of the population to admit we have to change for one reason, present them with 10 other reasons which have nothing to do with the first. Give them a reason to jump on the bandwagon. As long as we get to where we need to be.

IMHO.

61 Gus  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:35:15am

re: #56 BigPapa

If there was over reaction it was mostly the media. Just as the scientists have to predict within probabilities, so do the authorities. They’re right if they mobilized within the realm of probabilities.

Katrina probably still stings, as it should.

Hawaii went through an overmobilization with the Japan tsunami, and there were whiners that said ‘but there was no tsunami.’ Actually there was, it was just very small in many cases with a few areas that got walloped pretty good (homes were destroyed, some a few minutes from my house). The Pacific Tsunami Warning Center was on top of the event immediately and constantly revising information: they were correct, Hawaii had a tsunami. Nobody died, there was some damage.

I get emails from the PTSW within minutes of any earthquake in the Pacific region. Isn’t that freakin cool?

Tax dollars doing real good. NOAA scientists are rock stars in my book and I think their funding is a pittance, well worth it. Keep refining their models, maybe the predictions will get even tighter.

It’s basically like when a fire department receives an alarm from a high rise. You send out every piece of equipment to the scene even if there is a likelihood that there will be either a) a small fire or b) a false alarm. It’s a matter of being prepared for the worst case scenario. Ironically it’s a Scout motto: Be Prepared. You would think that people who allegedly call themselves “traditionalists” would also guide themselves by a longstanding Scout tradition of “being prepared.”

62 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:36:09am

re: #59 Linden Arden

Having spent a lot of time arguing with them they say the Constitution grants the feds only “enumerated powers” (which are listed and granted) and disaster aid is not one of them so therefore must be left to the states.

But to claim the people via Congress cannot legislate other powers to the feds is absurd.

Yeah, I’ve seen that tactic as well.

63 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:36:11am

re: #59 Linden Arden

and floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, etc, are somehow oblivious to state borders and states’ rights. the big ones have a tendency to take out whole regions…

64 Gus  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:36:53am

We’ve identified thought he next wingnut-denier talking point though thanks to rwmofo: “NOAA was wrong on hurricane Irene therefore all of the scientists are wrong on climate change.” Classic fail.

65 Kragar  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:37:55am

Gaddafi’s female bodyguards claim they were raped: report

According to the Sunday Times of Malta, the former bodyguards told a Benghazi-based psychologist that they were raped and abused by Gaddafi and his sons, before being tossed aside once the men became “bored” with them.

66 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:38:30am

I am thankful that my immediate family came through this with very little damage. My dad lost his power but it is supposed to be coming back soon.

67 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:38:33am

re: #60 mikec6666

This is tangential to the post, but, it’s clear that climate change has been completely politicized. What we know, however, is the climate predictions will, for the most part, occur whether people believe or not.

Maybe the strategy should be to couch green technology in terms of monetary savings, national self reliance, jobs, and the natural advancement of science and technology (e.g. cars over horses). If it’s too hard for a segment of the population to admit we have to change for one reason, present them with 10 other reasons which have nothing to do with the first. Give them a reason to jump on the bandwagon. As long as we get to where we need to be.

IMHO.

There are very significant national security advantages as well. New energy resources would deprive certain trouble-makers of income and relieve us of the exorbitant cost of maintaining the security of the oil supply.

68 Obdicut  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:40:29am

re: #66 PhillyPretzel

My parents will probably be out of power for a week.

They’re well-prepared, though, and can go into campus (UCONN) for showers and internet.

69 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:41:30am

2011: Iranians block the Straits of Hormuz. Panic mode! Defcon 1! Roll out the nukes!

2035 (with alternate energy in place): “Straits of Hormuz? Who cares?”

70 Kragar  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:41:31am

re: #68 Obdicut

My parents will probably be out of power for a week.

They’re well-prepared, though, and can go into campus (UCONN) for showers and internet.

Where in CT? I’ve got relatives in Chester, Essex, and Saybrook

71 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:41:37am

re: #67 Shiplord Kirel

Conservation and environmentalism is not about living in lean-tos and wiping our butts with leaves. It is about using teczhnology to make better use of our resources.

I lived in Russia in the early 90’s and was astounded at how these people, awash in cheap resources, had little or no incentive to develop any sort of efficient energy technology.

They are still struggling to catch up with the West today.

72 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:42:06am

re: #68 Obdicut
My dad has his car and can get to my sister’s place. She has an extra freezer so he won’t lose all of his frozen food.

73 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:42:19am

re: #35 tacuba14

Apparently the perks of being a ‘first-world nation’ aren’t enough for Ron. We need to hold up a country like the Philippines as a model, and do all we can to emulate their success story.

I’m betting the .ph deals with harsh weather far better than the average conservative libbercon confederate, too.

74 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:42:59am

re: #69 Shiplord Kirel

I would like the US to be in a position to say to Kuwait, Syria or Saudi Arabia that we will not buy their oil until they institue some serious social and political reforms…

75 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:43:21am

I am just glad that my family who live in Ocean City, Maryland stayed safe. Knowing my cousin’s husband and their son, I think those two will be back out surfing asap if they’re not already.

76 nines09  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:45:22am

re: #57 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Are they ever. I lost count of self serving TP and GOP dipsticks ranting about “other people” or my favorite; “Some People”. They never quite get paid enough but everyone else is paid too much. Love that government check but everyone else is a tick on society. Would welcome the fall of public education and who needs the EPA and biz should be able to do whatever biz wants to do and the minimum wage should be 2 bucks cause poor people really ain’t poor like the real poor people around the world. They got it too easy. Never walked a foot hungry or cold, and never thought a person down on his luck was anything but a bum. Dipshit morons.

77 jaunte  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:47:47am

re: #58 ralphieboy

He is big on the “moral risk” issue: if we reward peole for reckless behavior or shield them from the consequences, then we are encouraging it.

It does apply to a limited extent to people building in floodplains or low-lying coastal areas, but there is no spot in the entire USA that is completely safe from some sort of natural and/or man-made disaster.

Oddly, that’s exactly where Ron Paul has been living since the late 1960’s.

78 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:48:53am

Now that I think about it. I have a little brother down at Camp Lejeune and just like I did at Cherry Point during Hugo he hunkered down after locking down the base with all air assets flown to different part of the country. He was without power until he and fellow Marines decided to make use of the diesel generator stationed by the barracks. They’re all in good spirits despite the storm killing time with food and video games until they get sent to clean up the mess.

But under Luap Nor we would have done nothing and went about the day to day business of it all without weather radar or storm reports. Nope just like in the good ole days we all could go about our existence blissfully ignorant of any danger coming across the sea with no plan or resources to deal with it when it came. I guess I could have made a game about burning the most bodies in a day that is of course I’m not a corpse.

79 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:50:43am

re: #76 nines09

Are they ever. I lost count of self serving TP and GOP dipsticks ranting about “other people” or my favorite; “Some People”.

Well, we know what “some people” means.

I have never met a blathercon who is 1- actually self-made and more importantly, 2-not overprivileged without merit and desperate to stay that way at the expense of everyone else, 3- not socially retarded as hell.

80 Gus  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:53:15am

re: #49 Rightwingconspirator

With all intended due respect to the families of dead and critically injured-We got lucky in an important way with this one. I don’t recall what they say makes a hurricane with those pressures stay so wide instead of tightening up and really tearing up the ground and having lots more tornadoes. But it did stay wide and contain lessor winds than a tight storm.

From the WH to FEMA to the Pentagon they all apparently learned a lot more than the MSM did. The media seems to not learn anything except how to squeeze harder on the ratings push.

The media is in the business of selling fear. Fear sells and boosts ratings and generates revenue.

81 Obdicut  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 11:56:39am

re: #70 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Where in CT? I’ve got relatives in Chester, Essex, and Saybrook

Mansfield Center, near UCONN.

82 Gus  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:01:43pm

For the Republicans.

Virginia lawmakers to Obama: Declare federal emergency before Irene hits
By Debbie Siegelbaum - 08/26/11 05:03 PM ET

Virginia lawmakers are urging President Obama to declare a federal emergency in the state in advance of Hurricane Irene.

Sens. Mark Warner (D) and Jim Webb (D), as well as House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R), Reps. Rob Wittman (R), Scott Rigell (R), Bobby Scott (D), Randy Forbes (R), Robert Hurt (R), Bob Goodlatte (R), Jim Moran (D), Morgan Griffith (R), Frank Wolf (R) and Gerry Connolly (D) sent a letter to Obama Friday to ensure resources be made available in case of a disaster…

The lawmakers support Virginia Gov. Robert McDonnell’s (R) request for a federal emergency declaration, following Thursday’s declaration of a state of emergency in the area.

“There is a strong potential for devastating flooding from strong wind, heavy rainfall and storm surge flooding in the eastern part of the state depending on the storm’s final track,” according to the letter. “Many localities have already ordered mandatory evacuations to prevent a potential loss of life.”…

83 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:03:06pm

re: #82 Gus 802

For the Republicans.

Virginia lawmakers to Obama: Declare federal emergency before Irene hits

“The lawmakers support Virginia Gov. Robert McDonnell’s (R) request for a federal emergency declaration,”

And if you don’t we’ll secede, you dumb n*****!!!

84 Gus  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:03:55pm

re: #82 Gus 802

For the Republicans.

Virginia lawmakers to Obama: Declare federal emergency before Irene hits
By Debbie Siegelbaum - 08/26/11 05:03 PM ET

“A federal emergency declaration would ensure the full partnership and resources of the federal government to help provide for the public’s safety and for quick recovery from the direct and indirect effects of Hurricane Irene…Our state and local partners and our citizens are doing their parts to prepare for this event and everyone in the federal government needs to do the same.” — Rep. Scott Rigell (R-VA)

85 Summer Seale  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:05:49pm

I posted this page link on G+ and wrote about this:

Ron Paul is completely insane.

Completely insane.

I know that some think that he has good ideas, but he doesn’t. What he has is extremism to the core. He’s completely nuts, wants to go back to revolutionary times, wants to erase every progress we have ever made in civil society, is a creationist, and uses “states rights” language to try to slip through anti-abortion bills and a repeal of anti-racist laws.

Just wanting a guy to come in and screw stuff up because you “hate the system” isn’t the right answer or the solution to our big problems.

All that Ron Paul can do is pine for the “good old days”, and it’s pretty clear why: he wants to go back to those days, and most people have no idea that this is what he’s about.

He may be unwavering in his stances, but that doesn’t make him right. And with the things which he believes, it makes him not only wrong, but an idiot as well.

86 Gus  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:08:34pm

Any word from John Stossel?

//

87 albusteve  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:13:44pm

Hurricane MSM blew harder and longer than Irene….frigging news casters showboating are more annoying than the storm itself….then there is the prospect that one might use the storm for political advantage, hoping somebody messes up…good grief

88 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:13:53pm

re: #64 Gus 802

We’ve identified thought he next wingnut-denier talking point though thanks to rwmofo: “NOAA was wrong on hurricane Irene therefore all of the scientists are wrong on climate change.” Classic fail.

You just don’t understand!

NOAA was rong on Irene, so therefore, evolution is commie statist socialist marxist maoist propaganda!

And they want to shove this down our children’s throats along with black liberation theology history and gay studies!!! That’s why they took the prayer out of schools!!!

Poor us!

89 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:16:08pm

Breitbart says ‘Dennis Miller is afraid to speak out.’

Srsly.

90 Gus  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:17:30pm

re: #89 BigPapa

Breitbart says ‘Dennis Miller is afraid to speak out.’

Srsly.

Funny. I was just searching “Breitbart” on Twitter just now. Talk about garbage.

91 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:17:39pm

re: #86 Gus 802

Any word from John Stossel?

//

He would argue that had today’s government existed back then, a lot more people would have died.

Seriously.

92 darthstar  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:18:09pm

Come on Irene! I knew you were good for something!

Yes, it sounds trippy, but one of the strange aftermaths of a hurricane is an increased amount of mushrooms popping up — especially the psilocybin — or “magic” kind — the ones that cause hallucinations.

93 HoosierHoops  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:18:29pm

re: #87 albusteve

Hurricane MSM blew harder and longer than Irene…frigging news casters showboating are more annoying than the storm itself…then there is the prospect that one might use the storm for political advantage, hoping somebody messes up…good grief

I hate watching news people out in a hurricane reporting..I’m so over it..
One of these days there will be a sign flying by cutting off the head of somebody and we’ll have to mourn our hero…
It’s ok if you report from inside..We’ll still respect you in the morning..

94 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:19:10pm

re: #89 BigPapa

from the article…

It’s a conservative hootenanny this weekend between the California Young Republicans Federation convention in San Francisco this weekend and the Tea Party Express cross-country kickoff event in Napa.

Huh, I sonder if anyone is going to show up to those Tea Parties. I thought they were going to stop trying to keep the rallies going.

95 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:20:19pm

Tea Party kickoff in Napa
[Link: www.daylife.com…]

Looks to be about 50 people.

96 Gus  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:21:12pm

re: #95 Killgore Trout

Tea Party kickoff in Napa
[Link: www.daylife.com…]

Looks to be about 50 people.

Wow. Look at all of those young people!

//

97 Gus  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:23:06pm

re: #95 Killgore Trout

Tea Party kickoff in Napa
[Link: www.daylife.com…]

Looks to be about 50 people.

The disgruntled.

Image: 999x.jpg

NAPA, CA - AUGUST 27: Don Bahl (C) wears a dunce hat and a sign stating that he voted for U.S. President Barack Obama during the Tea Party Express tour kick-off on August 27, 2011 in Napa, California. Hundreds of people were in attendance as the Tea Party Express kicked off the ‘Reclaiming America’ bus tour that will wind its way through 19 states and visit 29 cities before arriving in Tampa, Florida for a presidential debate co-sponsored by CNN on September 12.

Probably smells like band aids.

98 Gus  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:24:22pm

re: #95 Killgore Trout

Tea Party kickoff in Napa
[Link: www.daylife.com…]

Looks to be about 50 people.

Image: 999x.jpg

Youtube Video
99 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:24:41pm

re: #96 Gus 802

Wow. Look at all of those young people!

//

Scooters and lawn chairs…
[Link: www.daylife.com…]
That crowd couldn’t give a standing ovation if they wanted to.

100 Gus  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:25:42pm

re: #99 Killgore Trout

Scooters and lawn chairs…
[Link: www.daylife.com…]
That crowd couldn’t give a standing ovation if they wanted to.

I see a lot of government checks with this crowd. If you know what I mean.

101 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:29:39pm

Sharron Angle speaking at Napa,CA Tea Party Rally.MP4

Youtube Video
102 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:32:16pm

re: #101 Killgore Trout

Sharron Angle speaking at Napa,CA Tea Party Rally.MP4

[Video]

Ouch, she sings at the end of that!

103 Stan the Demanded Plan  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:32:21pm

re: #65 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Gaddafi’s female bodyguards claim they were raped: report

SHOCKA

104 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:32:45pm

re: #100 Gus 802

I see a lot of government checks with this crowd. If you know what I mean.

Keep your gubment hands off my Medicare scooter!! I paid into it so it’s MINE!!!!

Unlike everyone coming after me paying into it, but still!!!

105 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:34:01pm

Sharron Angle? Heh they invited the woman who couldn’t beat perhaps the most unpopular senator in the nation last year. That’s a great way to show you represent mainstream American thought. I wonder if Sharron thinks some of the crowd “looks Asian.”

106 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:34:37pm

re: #102 Killgore Trout

Ouch, she sings at the end of that!

She is the Cindy Sheehan of the right.

Sadly, she has a lot more credibility than Cindy Sheehan.

107 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:34:44pm

Speaking of people who choose to exploit death and destruction to score cheap points in their unending hatred of anything federal:

Get Real: Hurricane Irene Should Be Renamed “Hurricane Hype”

[…]

A day later, the smart money is still riding a very Gloria-like track, but with a cyclone that will be weaker than projected. It is doubtful that Irene will even cough up eight bodies (the number killed by Gloria), though power outages east of where the center makes landfall (probably on Long Island) may be extensive.

As I complete this, there’s another tropical depression out in the Atlantic, and a couple more on the way in the very near future. Suppose one of these takes a similar path, except that it improbably threads the needle of the Mid-Atlantic Bight and makes landfall immediately to the west of New York City as a Category 3 storm. How many people will the hyping of Irene have killed?

That’s how Hurricane Hype followed by Hurricane Insanity leads to hurricane death.

[Link: news.yahoo.com…]

109 lostlakehiker  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:36:24pm

re: #58 ralphieboy

He is big on the “moral risk” issue: if we reward peole for reckless behavior or shield them from the consequences, then we are encouraging it.

It does apply to a limited extent to people building in floodplains or low-lying coastal areas, but there is no spot in the entire USA that is completely safe from some sort of natural and/or man-made disaster.

There are, however, places that are completely unsafe. Chaparral canyons are firetraps, for instance. If we’re going to try to save everybody who puts himself in harm’s way despite being advised of the extraordinary stupidity of his homesite, we’re going to have to outlaw such sitings.

If we can’t do that, at least we can refuse to insure the structures. Federal flood insurance has provisions something along the lines of…if you get flooded out on a floodplain, we’ll pay, but if you rebuild, you’re on your own.

Financially, that is.

Of all the subsidies and expenditures that government can make, one of the least defensible is picking up the tab for rich people’s vacation homes or dream homes when they’re hard to defend, very expensive, and very likely to be destroyed by natural hazards.

110 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:36:48pm

re: #107 Talking Point Detective

Just because his name should be widely recognized - the author of that article is a very prominent anti-AGW propagandists.

By Patrick Michaels

111 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:38:28pm

re: #107 Talking Point Detective

That’s good ol Patrick Michaels of the Competitive Enterprise Institute, key denialist funding source. More background noise presented as real thought.

112 Gus  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:39:07pm

re: #110 Talking Point Detective

Just because his name should be widely recognized - the author of that article is a very prominent anti-AGW propagandists.

By Patrick Michaels

We need a face.

Image: s-PATRICK-MICHAELS-large.jpg

113 Gus  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:41:04pm

re: #111 BigPapa

That’s good ol Patrick Michaels of the Competitive Enterprise Institute, key denialist funding source. More background noise presented as real thought.

…Patrick J. Michaels (±1942- ), also known as Pat Michaels, is a largely oil-funded global warming skeptic who argues that global warming models are fatally flawed and, in any event, we should take no action because new technologies will soon replace those that emit greenhouse gases. Patrick Michaels of the University of Virginia served as an Expert Reviewer to Working Group I of the Fourth Assessment Report of the IPCC…

Clientele

Michaels’ firm does not disclose who its clients are, but leaked documents have revealed that several were power utilities which operate coal power stations. On a 2007 academic CV, Michaels disclosed that prior to creating his firm he had received funding from the Edison Electric Institute and the Western Fuels Association. He has also been a frequent speaker with leading coal and energy companies as well as coal and other industry lobby groups…

114 Meitantei  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:41:08pm

re: #99 Killgore Trout

As someone else once said, lawn chairs truly represent America. They show our ability to innovate by making ourselves more comfortable at political rallies - and they show that we’re too blatheringly lazy to stand up and applaud when a politician we like shows up.

115 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:41:52pm

Patrick Michaels is actually connected to more than 11 climate change denial organizations funded by Exxonmobil, and is a “Senior Fellow” at the Cato Institute.

116 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:42:03pm

re: #113 Gus 802

Patrick J. Michaels (±1942- ), also known as Pat Michaels, is a largely oil-funded global warming skeptic who argues that global warming models are fatally flawed and, in any event, we should take no action because new technologies will soon replace those that emit greenhouse gases. Patrick Michaels of the University of Virginia served as an Expert Reviewer to Working Group I of the Fourth Assessment Report of the IPCC…

Clientele

Michaels’ firm does not disclose who its clients are, but leaked documents have revealed that several were power utilities which operate coal power stations. On a 2007 academic CV, Michaels disclosed that prior to creating his firm he had received funding from the Edison Electric Institute and the Western Fuels Association. He has also been a frequent speaker with leading coal and energy companies as well as coal and other industry lobby groups.[

Well if it quacks like a hack———————

117 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:43:49pm

Patrick Michaels is mentioned prominently in this eye-opening report from the Union of Concerned Scientists: Smoke, Mirrors & Hot Air: How ExxonMobil Uses Big Tobacco’s Tactics to Manufacture Uncertainty on Climate Science.

118 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:44:40pm

re: #116 HappyWarrior

Well if it quacks like a hack—-

Crocohack!

119 eneri  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:45:07pm

I pine for the day he stays home and lives off social security.

120 blueraven  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:45:31pm

Fox News Channel (shep smith) is saying there are reports of some type of level B emergency at an upstate NY Dam (Gilboa), but says no other information is available.

I cant find anything else about it.

121 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:45:55pm

re: #119 eneri

I pine for the day he stays home and lives off social security.

Image: ron-paul-on-ice.jpg

122 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:46:10pm

re: #109 lostlakehiker

Of all the subsidies and expenditures that government can make, one of the least defensible is picking up the tab for rich people’s vacation homes or dream homes when they’re hard to defend, very expensive, and very likely to be destroyed by natural hazards.

Every single year, more and more houses slide off the cliff in Malibu, Pacific Palisades, and etc. It happens like clockwork.

Last night I got accused, somewhat randomly, of having some kind of problem with people who happen not to live paycheck after paycheck just because I argued that there are cost/benefit reasons why someone might not evacuate for a Cat1 hurricane. e_e

So I suppose it’s ironic that a class warfare government dependent socialist marxist maoist statist commie pinko like me has no problem with state, local, or federal resources going to rescue and help out rich people who build, and rebuild their houses on cliffs they already know are going to give way someday. Or maybe it’s not ironic, who knows.

I notice, though, that Malibu houses never come up in these libbercon confederate arguments to axe expenditures and “gubbment programs” like insurance commissions that regulate the contracts that help people collect.

123 Gus  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:46:52pm

re: #119 eneri

I pine for the day he stays home and lives off social security.

Just like Ayn Rand.

Ron Paul: “government leech.”

Irony.

124 RadicalModerate  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:47:27pm

re: #107 Talking Point Detective

Speaking of people who choose to exploit death and destruction to score cheap points in their unending hatred of anything federal:

[Link: news.yahoo.com…]

One question for these “libertarian” idiots.

How many people would have likely died if there was no federal infrastructure (NOAA, FEMA, ACoE, among other fed agencies) in place to warn and coordinate evacuation, and reduce damage levels of high-risk areas? Even though this storm wasn’t as bad as it could have been due to a couple lucky breaks (brush with NC coastline and cold front arriving right at NY/NJ landfall point), it was strong enough to have caused significant loss of life.

125 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:48:49pm

Back from Holland. Turned out Rotterdam metro goes right to Hague central station, so yesterday I spent the whole day there and accidentally stumbled upon a nasty anti-Israel rally. It wasn’t big, no more than 100 ppl imho. They had lots of the usual Israel=Nazis placards, as well as a Homeini portrait (so yeah, an Islamist rally). The speakers spoke either in French(?!) or some Eastern language (whether Arabic or Turkish I can’t say). The speeches were often punctuated by mindless loud “Irael blah blah blah Amrika blah blah blah” and “Allahu akbar” chants. It seemed to me that this style of rallying didn’t endear these idiots to the locals. Also saw in different parts of Hague people with green flags. No idea if that’s supposed to be a support for Kaddafi.

126 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:48:56pm

re: #57 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well, that’s their first problem. Libbercons despise “we the people”, and look down on us, as if they’re not “we the people” themselves.

They claim to be self-made, and held back by the government (poor them!) from being even more self-made. But they are among the biggest parasites in society.

I am thinking a lot of them are actually secret Monarchists. See Hans-Hermann Hoppe:

In June 2005, Hoppe gave an interview in the German far-right newspaper Junge Freiheit, in which he characterized monarchy as a lesser evil than democracy, calling the latter mob rule and saying, “Liberty instead of democracy!” In the interview Hoppe also condemned the French revolution as belonging in “the same category of vile revolutions as well as the Bolshevik revolution and the Nazi revolution,” because the French revolution led to “Regicide, Egalitarianism, democracy, socialism, hatred of all religion, terror measures, mass plundering, rape and murder, military draft and the total, ideologically motivated War.”[10]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

127 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:49:51pm

re: #124 RadicalModerate

How many people would have likely died if there was no federal infrastructure (NOAA, FEMA, ACoE, among other fed agencies) in place to warn and coordinate evacuation, and reduce damage levels of high-risk areas?

Lol why do you think these filthy confederates hate said infrastructure to begin with?

The more dead people, the better. Less competition that way.

128 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:50:18pm

Fox Spins Cantor’s Comments On Disaster Relief

Cantor: Another idiot when it comes to disaster relief.

129 Gus  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:50:51pm

re: #124 RadicalModerate

One question for these “libertarian” idiots.

How many people would have likely died if there was no federal infrastructure (NOAA, FEMA, ACoE, among other fed agencies) in place to warn and coordinate evacuation, and reduce damage levels of high-risk areas? Even though this storm wasn’t as bad as it could have been due to a couple lucky breaks (brush with NC coastline and cold front arriving right at NY/NJ landfall point), it was strong enough to have caused significant loss of life.

That’s exactly it. So far 18 people have died. What would have been the death toll had we not had this infrastructure? No doubt it would have been considerably higher. The deaths from Irene will likely rise.

The 1938 hurricane led to somewhere around 700 to 800 deaths.

130 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:51:35pm

re: #128 Varek Raith

Fox Spins Cantor’s Comments On Disaster Relief

Cantor: Another idiot when it comes to disaster relief.

I’m embarrassed that Cantor has the highest leadership position of any Virginian in Congress. Guy is such a jerk.

131 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:53:22pm

Not a hurricane but 1927 flood is a good example of why government inaction in natural disasters is bad policy. These are human lives at stake. Seems that Paul and his ideologues don’t get that. Paul acts the same way when he calls every foreign policy an “imperialist adventure.”

132 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:55:19pm

Even worse than Micheal’s cavalier comment about ‘coughing up 8 bodies’ is his proactive propaganda to create white noise clouding the issues (no pun intended). The core of his screed is to diss the hurricane prediction scientific community under the guise of media scrutiny yet at the same time give credence to a new media outlet, which happens to be at the Washington post.

He’s wrong, evil, but not stupid. It’s pretty saavy.

133 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:55:46pm

re: #126 000G

I am thinking a lot of them are actually secret Monarchists. See Hans-Hermann Hoppe:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

I think you’re quite right about that. Hoppe would have been one of the jerks who only hated Hitler because he wanted the House of Hohenzollern back.

(For anyone with their mouse set to downding, that’s not a Godwin reference, it’s a historical one. [Link: en.wikipedia.org…] )

134 eneri  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:57:31pm

re: #120 blueraven

I heard there was a minor earthquake.

135 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 12:59:09pm

re: #126 000G

I am thinking a lot of them are actually secret Monarchists. See Hans-Hermann Hoppe:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Interesting, I’ve never heard of Hoppe before. Seems to be another Austrian School guy.

136 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:00:35pm

re: #131 HappyWarrior

Not a hurricane but 1927 flood is a good example of why government inaction in natural disasters is bad policy. These are human lives at stake. Seems that Paul and his ideologues don’t get that. Paul acts the same way when he calls every foreign policy an “imperialist adventure.”

Eh, he’s a socon sociopath. He’s only antiwar because he thinks war is bad for business, not because of any lives lost because of them.

Dumb states rights confederate.

137 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:01:52pm

As one who was not inconvenienced in any way/shape/form by the storm; (I understand this is an easy emotion for me) I applaud the overreaction to the storm.

Few millibars or mini-bars (not sure what those are anyway) it could have been really, really bad.

138 RadicalModerate  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:02:06pm

re: #127 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol why do you think these filthy confederates hate said infrastructure to begin with?

The more dead people liberals, the better. Less competition that way.

Fixed.

139 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:03:46pm

re: #137 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

As one who was not inconvenienced in any way/shape/form by the storm; (I understand this is an easy emotion for me) I applaud the overreaction to the storm.

Few millibars or mini-bars (not sure what those are anyway) it could have been really, really bad.

Minibars. Good for holding out during the storm.
;)
*It’s millibars*

140 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:05:21pm

re: #134 eneri

I heard there was a minor earthquake.

[Link: earthquake.usgs.gov…]

141 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:06:45pm

re: #125 Sergey Romanov

Come to think of it, it might have had something to do with the so-called “Al Quds day”, though that was on Friday (but Homeini portrait raises that probability).

142 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:07:12pm

re: #139 Varek Raith

Minibars. Good for holding out during the storm.
;)
*It’s millibars*

I know silly. I just don’t know what they are. Mars Bars? Stars and Bars? Simon Bar Sinister?

143 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:07:54pm

re: #142 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I know silly. I just don’t know what they are. Mars Bars? Stars and Bars? Simon Bar Sinister?

A unit of pressure.

144 Amory Blaine  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:08:21pm

More of this please. Ron Paul and his delusional gang of bootstrappers need to be comfortable and kept out in the open.

145 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:08:43pm

re: #143 Varek Raith

A unit of pressure.

Fuckin’ weather. How does it work?

146 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:09:43pm

re: #145 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Fuckin’ weather. How does it work?

Magic.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

147 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:21:35pm

re: #124 RadicalModerate

One question for these “libertarian” idiots.

How many people would have likely died if there was no federal infrastructure (NOAA, FEMA, ACoE, among other fed agencies) in place to warn and coordinate evacuation, and reduce damage levels of high-risk areas?

Actually, according to Pat Michaels, the question should be how many bodies would have been “coughed up.”

From experience in dealing regularly with these folks on the Interwebs, I can tell you what the most common responses I’ve encountered are:

(1) Local response is more effective (they seem to ignore the notion that thousands of local municipalities trying to predict storms and coordinate response would be incredibly redundant and inefficient). Evidence for that lunatic believe was provided by Charles at the head of this post.

(2) Unintended consequences and moral hazzard. For these folks, apparently the only possible unintended consequences and outcomes from an act motivated by a moral intent, are negative. For example, the unintended consequence of a federal agency saving someone’s life is that the will then re-locate in a risk prone area. The thought never occurs to these folks that maybe an “unintended consequence” could be that economic development in risk prone areas might, oh, I don’t know, stimulate economic activity.

(3) All phenomena are either all good or all bad. The logic is that any inefficiencies or redundancies in any federal agency proves that the federal agency, in fact all federal agencies, are completely worthless.

148 lawhawk  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:24:51pm

re: #129 Gus 802

The casualties from the LI Express (1938 storm) were due to limited foreknowledge of where the storm would hit and its strength. Here, NWS, NHC, and NOAA predictions were all putting the NYC metro area under the gun - and were all signaling a hit along the NJ to LI coast line with significant flooding.

Local officials and state governors all worked with those models - put out 72, 60, and 48 hours before, and moved to get evacuations of low lying areas, mass transit equipment, and other steps to minimize damage/casualties.

The system worked - and the loss of life, while regrettable and full of sorrow for those involved, were mercifully low.

Contra to rwmofo above, the models and predictions actually were pretty good on the landfall and storm surge, but overestimated on the wind speed.

149 Stan the Demanded Plan  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:28:36pm

re: #97 Gus 802

The disgruntled.

Image: 999x.jpg

NAPA, CA - AUGUST 27: Don Bahl (C) wears a dunce hat and a sign stating that he voted for U.S. President Barack Obama during the Tea Party Express tour kick-off on August 27, 2011 in Napa, California. Hundreds of people were in attendance as the Tea Party Express kicked off the ‘Reclaiming America’ bus tour that will wind its way through 19 states and visit 29 cities before arriving in Tampa, Florida for a presidential debate co-sponsored by CNN on September 12.

Probably smells like band aids.

#1, he’s a liar. Typical.

150 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:30:29pm

re: #147 Talking Point Detective

Just to rephrase a bit - I think that almost uniformly, libertarians base their outlook on a binary mindset: Because there are things about the federal government that are sub-optimal, therefore government should be drowned in a bathtub.

This is why I view libertarianism as a belief based in a valid skeptical outlook on federal overreach - but that those beliefs are almost always held by people who stopped developing cognitively when they reached jr. high school.

151 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:35:41pm

re: #129 Gus 802

That’s exactly it. So far 18 people have died. What would have been the death toll had we not had this infrastructure? No doubt it would have been considerably higher. The deaths from Irene will likely rise.

The 1938 hurricane led to somewhere around 700 to 800 deaths.

They will not be satisfied until everyone with whom they must compete with are dead.

152 122 Year Old Obama  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:45:55pm

re: #5 rwmofo

Well, at least we have a teachable moment. Hurricane Irene shows us how our current computer models can’t accurately predict either the size, strength, or precise location of a hurricane within hours of it making landfall. Yet we’re supposed to radically change our entire economy over what computer models are forecasting regarding the impact carbon dioxide theoretically will have on the climate decades out.

You are an idiot.

153 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 2:39:06pm

No, no, no. You guys have been misreading what Ron Paul meant. What he is advocating is that post-hurricane there should be a massive public works project as an economic stimulus to raise the altitude of the *entire East Coast* seventeen feet with an accompanying seawall.

That’s what they did with Galveston and Ron wants us to emulate that…
/(black hole massive)

154 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 3:16:56pm

re: #21 Charles

It’s a crazy person who keeps trying to register sock puppets, to whine about how I’m being unfair to libertarians. He first registered here as ‘pharmmajor,’ and he’s tried to register 7 or 8 accounts since.

Yeah, that’s going to improve my image of libertarians.

They’re persistent, you gotta give ‘em that.

155 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 3:20:17pm

re: #50 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

As Irene Devastates, Ron Paul Says We Need To ‘Come To Our Senses’ And Abolish FEMA

“Irene did not actually tear off the Eastern Seaboard, and that’s good enough for me…we don’t need to prepare for any future hurricanes!”

156 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 3:28:29pm

re: #124 RadicalModerate

One question for these “libertarian” idiots.

How many people would have likely died if there was no federal infrastructure (NOAA, FEMA, ACoE, among other fed agencies) in place to warn and coordinate evacuation, and reduce damage levels of high-risk areas? E

Libertarian response, as I understand it: “Who cares? The existence of government is worse than any other fate you could meet at the hands of nature or your fellow man.”

157 JRCMYP  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 6:58:39pm

Okay, so, I get the “states rights” vs. “fed rights” argument generally when it it comes to localized disasters. But this was a multi-state disaster. And thankfully it didn’t include 8 to 9,000 dead the way it did in 1900 (the year that Paul references).

But do we really need to dig in to the problems with his argument? I mean, really? It wasn’t only a single town or state that was hit. It was the ENTIRE EASTERN SEABOARD INCLUDING—AT LEAST—MANY NON SEABOARD TOWNS IN SEVERAL STATES.

So…it seems logical that federal assistance would be the next step, no?

I just want the grand standers to STFU. Really. Like, now.


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