The previous debate thread has more than 500 comments now, which means that some web browsers are starting to struggle, so here’s your second thread to discuss this debate-like thing that’s going on in Denver…
1 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:07:21pm |
I'm calling this one for Mitt.
Maybe tonight might not mean much in the long run, but it's not helping the President for sure.
| 2 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:07:26pm |
From the archives: Rick Santorum said Romney adviser admits Romneycare was blueprint for Obamacare. Mostly True. ow.ly/ecNPm— PolitiFact (@politifact) October 4, 2012
| 3 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:08:21pm |
re: #1 freetoken
I'm calling this one for Mitt.
Maybe tonight might not mean much in the long run, but it's not helping the President for sure.
Yeah, it's not looking good. I'm surprised.
| 4 |
engineer cat Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:08:30pm |
mitt is trying to sell the same bullshit that republicans have been trying to sell since the reagan administration 32 years ago
it don't sell no more
| 5 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:08:35pm |
This is not the Mitt Romney of the primaries. There he ran from this MA healthcare plan. Now he embraces it. Will his wingnut followers follow?
| 8 |
wrenchwench Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:09:01pm |
Speaking of struggling browsers, I only have audio.
Post those stills, people!
| 9 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:09:05pm |
re: #3 Killgore Trout
Yeah, it's not looking good. I'm surprised.
I'm not too surprised. The President has had to debate publicly in 4 years.
| 10 |
JamesWI Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:09:09pm |
Alright, calling him out for his fucking lie on pre-existing conditions
| 11 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:09:09pm |
re: #1 freetoken
I'm calling this one for Mitt.
Maybe tonight might not mean much in the long run, but it's not helping the President for sure.
I'm sorry, nut I'm not seeing what you are seeing. They both seem low key. No serious hits on either side. It's been blah so far.
| 12 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:09:13pm |
re: #4 engineer cat
mitt is trying to sell the same bullshit that republicans have been trying to sell since the reagan administration 32 years ago
it don't sell no more
Yeah, that's the thing. He did a good job of selling his shit tonight, but does that mean people are actually going to buy it?
It also wildly raises expectations for him on the next debate.
| 13 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:09:42pm |
DRA. CORAZON, WALTER MERCADO, THERE ARE MANY ALTERNATIVES TO HEALTHCARE, ALSO PRAYING LIKE CREYSY #DenverDebate— Mexican Mitt Romneez (@MexicanMitt) October 4, 2012
| 14 |
God of Binders with Women Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:09:43pm |
Romney's smirk looks like a 21-year-old at a strip club for the first time.
| 15 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:09:43pm |
I'm just waiting to hear Romney mention Florida Governor Rick Scott as a model for how to handle healthcare issues.
| 16 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:10:08pm |
re: #11 moderatelyradicalliberal
The President is not leaving anyone take-home lines.
The punch-line is all.
| 17 |
Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:10:19pm |
re: #13 Lidane
Trade chickens for it. (Was that Angle?)
| 18 |
engineer cat Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:10:30pm |
i'm calling this one for the president
mitt has been selling the same crap all year and nobody's buying it
mitt had to do something different tonight, and that ain't what's happening
| 19 |
erik_t Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:10:41pm |
re: #16 freetoken
The President is not leaving anyone take-home lines.
The punch-line is all.
The punchline is that fewer and fewer people are persuadable by a debate, just like fewer and fewer people are persuadable by a convention speech.
| 20 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:10:43pm |
re: #12 Sheeplord
Yeah, that's the thing. He did a good job of selling his shit tonight, but does that mean people are actually going to buy it?
It also wildly raises expectations for him on the next debate.
I've already accepted that the bar was set so low for Romney that he would be declared the winner no matter what. If he didn't start speaking in tongues he was going to be declared the winner.
| 21 |
JamesWI Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:10:51pm |
re: #16 freetoken
The President is not leaving anyone take-home lines.
The punch-line is all.
And which big memorable moments from Romney are you thinking of?
| 22 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:11:09pm |
that's it Barack nail him for not being specific.
| 24 |
wrenchwench Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:11:23pm |
Why is he keeping his plan secret? --Obama's zinger
| 29 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:11:40pm |
RONALD REAGAN!!!
| 30 |
Mich-again Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:11:45pm |
The biggest news of the night is that Miguel Cabrera has officially won the triple crown. SHA weet!
| 32 |
Sionainn Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:11:49pm |
| 33 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:11:52pm |
The wingnuts hate Tip O'Neil, Mitt. They still blame Reagan for ever working together with Tip instead of grinding him under his boot heel.
| 34 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:11:56pm |
re: #16 freetoken
The President is not leaving anyone take-home lines.
The punch-line is all.
What are Romney's take-home lines? Honestly, what's memorable about any of this?
| 35 |
JamesWI Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:11:59pm |
re: #25 freetoken
The $716 billion from Medicare.
And that's a line that hasn't worked on the campaign trail.
| 36 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:12:02pm |
Oh please Mitt stop acting like you'd be bipartisan.
| 37 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:12:05pm |
ok is Romney now saying he is now going to do everything Obama has already done?
| 38 |
engineer cat Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:12:25pm |
"is he keeping them secret because they're too good?"
a good line but he didn't deliver it with maximum punch
but now we're beginning to address the lingering, nagging lack of specifics in mitt's "plan"
| 39 |
Tigger2 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:12:42pm |
If Romney is somehow elected there is going to be some serious buyers remorse.
| 40 |
researchok Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:12:44pm |
| 43 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:12:56pm |
re: #37 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance
Yes, Mitt is now fully owning his own MA healthcare system, which he avoided at all costs in the primaries.
| 44 |
SpaceJesus Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:12:57pm |
So my take away is that Mitt wants Big Bird to work in his clean coal mine
| 47 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:13:15pm |
10th AMENDMENT! STATES RIGHTS!!!
| 48 |
engineer cat Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:13:22pm |
"that is a terrific segue"
fuck this asshole
| 49 |
Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:13:23pm |
re: #37 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance
ok is Romney now saying he is now going to do everything Obama has already done?
No, he's going to smash everything Obama did and do it better because, well, secret plans!
| 50 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:13:29pm |
| 51 |
Mich-again Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:13:30pm |
Mitt is walking a fine line here.. If he starts to appear too reasonable, it will piss off the Tea Baggers and Birchers that he needs to have any chance.
| 52 |
Interesting Times Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:13:35pm |
re: #43 freetoken
Yes, Mitt is now fully owning his own MA healthcare system, which he avoided at all costs in the primaries.
Etch-a-Sketch!
| 53 |
God of Binders with Women Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:13:37pm |
re: #30 Mich-again
The biggest news of the night is that Miguel Cabrera has officially won the triple crown. SHA weet!
Guaranteed MVP, though I was biased towards Mike Trout. Didn't play at all in April, and he had a season for the ages.
| 55 |
Reverend Mother Ramallo Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:13:46pm |
Prez. seems tired.
Mitt seems like a condescending prick.
| 57 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:13:55pm |
re: #43 freetoken
Yes, Mitt is now fully owning his own MA healthcare system, which he avoided at all costs in the primaries.
Sure. He embraces it now, after the RNC, after the primaries, and when he's got a month to go in the election.
I wonder how the wingnuts will react to that.
| 58 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:14:09pm |
| 60 |
researchok Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:14:11pm |
National Security- that is Obama's strongest suit.
| 61 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:14:14pm |
re: #54 Gus
Speak the fuck up Obama!
He's rambling quite a bit.
I think he's taken this thing too lightly.
| 62 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:14:16pm |
re: #25 freetoken
The $716 billion from Medicare.
That's the line that hasn't been working for months now.
| 63 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:14:16pm |
Think the pundits will be able to make a strong case that "Mitt held his own."
How the voters will see it won't be clear for a few days.
| 64 |
Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:14:28pm |
| 66 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:14:31pm |
re: #58 Decatur Deb
agreed.
| 67 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:14:39pm |
re: #62 moderatelyradicalliberal
That's the line that hasn't been working for months now.
50 million people watching tonight.
| 68 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:14:54pm |
re: #1 freetoken
I'm calling this one for Mitt.
Do you like being lied to? Because that's pretty much all Mitt has been doing.
| 70 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:15:28pm |
Mitt Romney can state utter falsehoods quite eloquently.
| 71 |
Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:15:32pm |
re: #50 moderatelyradicalliberal
You've got to be kidding?
You have to try to view it from what this is really about. The undecideds. These are low-information lazy sacks of stupid shit who are never really going to research anything. They'll read a few quotes, watch a few zingers, hear a few soundbites. If you look at it from that perspective, yes, Romney probably comes out better, whether it's complete bullshit or not.
| 73 |
JamesWI Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:15:51pm |
Romney's been using the $716 billion line every time he talks. Ryan uses it too. And it got him booed out of the AARP speech in front of his mother.
This is what you think Romney is "winning" the debate over? A line that seniors have already rejected?
| 74 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:15:53pm |
re: #68 goddamnedfrank
Do you like being lied to? Because that's pretty much all Mitt has been doing.
Thing about it is Mitt seems to be fairly comfortable with lying out loud and seemed to be dictating the course of this "debate." How the voters will read that remains to be seen, but I can't say with a straight face that he seriously fucked up tonight.
| 75 |
Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:15:58pm |
re: #70 RadicalModerate
Mitt Romney can state utter falsehoods quite eloquently.
His party has had a lot of practice.
| 76 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:16:01pm |
re: #67 freetoken
50 million people watching tonight.
And how many of them haven't heard that line. How many people are like most of us, people who have already made up their minds?
Seriously who is that line new to?
| 77 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:16:02pm |
re: #68 goddamnedfrank
Do you like being lied to? Because that's pretty much all Mitt has been doing.
Doesn't matter.
Human groups are living things, responding to sometimes strange whiffs of whatever someone is smoking.
Mitt comes off sharply, if somewhat still milquetoast.
The President is rambling.
| 79 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:16:08pm |
re: #16 freetoken
The President is not leaving anyone take-home lines.
The punch-line is all.
Ah, I see. You're a fan of the facile.
| 80 |
diamonda2u Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:16:17pm |
re: #68 goddamnedfrank
Do you like being lied to? Because that's pretty much all Mitt has been doing.
Yeah I don't get that? Was he good as President material...or was he just a good actor...crap...Kim Kardashian can lie really good and convincingly, but I don't want her being President either
| 81 |
danarchy Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:16:18pm |
re: #68 goddamnedfrank
Do you like being lied to? Because that's pretty much all Mitt has been doing.
Yeah, but it is the presidents job to call him on the BS and he isn't doing it effectively. I have to agree, Mitt is winning the debate.
| 83 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:16:40pm |
re: #79 goddamnedfrank
Ah, I see. You're a fan of the facile.
I accept humanity is what it is, rather than what I think it ought to be.
| 84 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:16:40pm |
"I believe in more teachers, every state should make that decision on their own!"
So he believes that there should be more teachers, but also that he should not do anything about it.
| 86 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:17:07pm |
Oh ask him about mosques. JUST DO IT.
| 88 |
Batman Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:17:08pm |
Romney totally pivoted towards the center, which is highly unexpected. Obama was probably prepared for full-on wingnut.
| 89 |
jaunte Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:17:18pm |
re: #84 jamesfirecat
"You poorer "red" states, you're on your own."
| 90 |
nines09 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:17:19pm |
re: #68 goddamnedfrank
Do you like being lied to? Because that's pretty much all Mitt has been doing.
Yes he lied so well. We're so proud.
| 91 |
God of Binders with Women Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:17:19pm |
Where is this going? You can maintain the strength of the military without going broke doing it. Does it take $800B a year to develop a smarter way to fire a bullet or drop a bomb?
| 92 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:17:24pm |
Oh for fuck's sake. Romney pandering to the fundies now.
| 95 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:17:31pm |
Note that God had to wait for Reagan to go first.
| 96 |
researchok Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:17:34pm |
This is Obama's big break- he needs to jump in on national security.
Drill down on that.
Mitt's weak- his Libya debacle is proof of that
| 97 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:17:42pm |
Romney's doing quite well, I think.
Not well enough to get me to vote for him or anything, but a good evening.
| 98 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:17:55pm |
food stamps, like the 3rd time?
| 99 |
Tigger2 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:18:24pm |
All of what Romney is ranting about is mostly the Republicans fault.
| 100 |
jhrhv Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:18:43pm |
Mitt is really making me think he is a dishonest sack O crap.
| 102 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:18:55pm |
re: #88 Batman
Romney totally pivoted towards the center, which is highly unexpected. Obama was probably prepared for full-on wingnut.
Yep, he pulled his chameleon act tonight. I'm curious as to how the wingnuts are gonna respond to all this.
| 103 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:18:55pm |
I still find it unthinkable but I'm not psychologically prepared for President Mitt.
| 105 |
wrenchwench Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:19:11pm |
re: #44 SpaceJesus
So my take away is that Mitt wants Big Bird to work in his clean coal mine
This one's for you!
WE ARE ALL CHILDREN OF THE SAME ESPACE GOD #DenverDebate— Mexican Mitt Romneez (@MexicanMitt) October 4, 2012
| 106 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:19:33pm |
Obamacare is a government takeover of health care? That was the 2010 Lie of the Year. ow.ly/ecO9V #debate— PolitiFact (@politifact) October 4, 2012
| 107 |
Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:19:34pm |
It's creepy, but every time I hear Romney or any other Republican talk about "states this" and "states that," all I can think of is the pathetic justification the south uses for the Civil War - "states' rights."
| 108 |
bratwurst Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:19:43pm |
re: #102 Targetpractice
Yep, he pulled his chameleon act tonight. I'm curious as to how the wingnuts are gonna respond to all this.
That hate Obama far more than the like Mitt...they will be popping champagne corks in a few minutes.
| 109 |
Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:19:44pm |
re: #103 Killgore Trout
I still find it unthinkable but I'm not
psychologicallyeconomically prepared for President Mitt.
| 111 |
diamonda2u Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:19:55pm |
re: #88 Batman
Romney totally pivoted towards the center, which is highly unexpected. Obama was probably prepared for full-on wingnut.
Maybe he set RMoney up for that. RMoney is the one that loses his base going center, not O'
| 112 |
Reverend Mother Ramallo Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:20:22pm |
I would be tired too, if I had to dissect that word salad on the spot.
| 113 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:20:23pm |
re: #99 Tigger2
All of what Romney is ranting about is mostly the Republicans fault.
Everything he's running against is largely the GOP's fault. They got us into this mess and now they're pissed that Obama didn't clean up after them in four years.
| 114 |
Mr.Boots Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:20:27pm |
Federal funding following the child . . . but that won't require more bureaucrats in DC
| 115 |
researchok Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:20:35pm |
re: #77 freetoken
I really expected Obama to win or at least equal Obama tonight.
| 116 |
Kragar Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:20:36pm |
re: #97 SanFranciscoZionist
Romney's doing quite well, I think.
Not well enough to get me to vote for him or anything, but a good evening.
Oh, I'm totally convinced now. Definitely going for Romney now.
/
| 117 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:20:44pm |
re: #111 diamonda2u
Yeah, but the President loses if he doesn't get a big turnout, and so far all he's done is put people to sleep.
| 118 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:21:06pm |
re: #103 Killgore Trout
I still find it unthinkable but I'm not psychologically prepared for President Mitt.
Eh, I don't throw in that towel yet.
(Also, I've been psychologically prepared for President Mitt for a long time, should the need arise. It was President Rick that made me nervous.)
| 119 |
wrenchwench Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:21:17pm |
Lehrer interrupts Obama to give Romney even more time to run him over?
| 120 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:21:25pm |
re: #106 Killgore Trout
[Embedded content]
Yep 2010 before they decided to make their 2011 lie of the year was something that was true and pissed away their credibility chasing the desire to appear impartial.
| 121 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:21:25pm |
WIN AMERICA WIN
Based on Facebook - One of the take aways from tonight's debate is Romney killing Big Bird - on.fb.me/PRtycH
— Kombiz Lavasany (@kombiz) October 4, 2012
| 123 |
calochortus Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:21:49pm |
re: #102 Targetpractice
Yep, he pulled his chameleon act tonight. I'm curious as to how the wingnuts are gonna respond to all this.
Freepers think he's winning big time despite Lehrer being on Obama's side and helping him out.
| 124 |
danarchy Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:21:58pm |
Obama is now +5 min on speaking time, but it doesn't feel like it. Sure sign he isn't getting to the point directly enough, a little too rambly.
| 125 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:22:01pm |
re: #117 freetoken
Yeah, but the President loses if he doesn't get a big turnout, and so far all he's done is put people to sleep.
He's never been a gifted debater. Too cerebral. Better giving a speech.
| 128 |
Tigger2 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:22:31pm |
re: #117 freetoken
Yeah, but the President loses if he doesn't get a big turnout, and so far all he's done is put people to sleep.
He'll get a big turnout.
| 130 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:22:33pm |
I keep going back to Harry Truman - he would have cleaned the floor with Mitt by now.
Our "leaders" really have lost the ability to argue in debates, that matter anyway.
| 131 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:22:37pm |
Uh oh. Matt Yglesias is reduced to capslock:
WHY DOES JIM LEHRER KEEP ASKING IF THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CANDIDATES? THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT.— Matt Yglesias (@mattyglesias) October 4, 2012
| 132 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:22:41pm |
re: #123 calochortus
Freepers think he's winning big time despite Lehrer being on Obama's side and helping him out.
Yes, but the Freepers are psychotic.
(I think they're pretty well matched right now.)
| 133 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:22:46pm |
re: #118 SanFranciscoZionist
Eh, I don't throw in that towel yet.
(Also, I've been psychologically prepared for President Mitt for a long time, should the need arise. It was President Rick that made me nervous.)
I may invest in a donkey to hang my pots and pans on to wander the wasteland before November.
| 134 |
JamesWI Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:22:50pm |
So Romney wants Obamacare in every state, he just wants to make it go through 50 state legislatures. Government efficiency! #debate
— James C (@JCBadger34) October 4, 2012
| 135 |
Gus Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:22:51pm |
re: #106 Killgore Trout
[Embedded content]
So how old were you when you decided that manipulating people's emotions was stimulating?
| 136 |
diamonda2u Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:22:52pm |
re: #117 freetoken
Yeah, but the President loses if he doesn't get a big turnout, and so far all he's done is put people to sleep.
Umm, sorry but most folks didn't vote for him in 2008 because of his stellar debates...
I'm not even watching this one, just reading the commentary here, and still voting for him... Mitt can practice lies all day long, and say them better than a two bit hooker, but the fact is, most folks know who they are voting for... and the debates won't change much of that ... just ask George W who lost two of his debates according to "opinion" and visuals...both time he ran.
| 137 |
calochortus Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:22:54pm |
| 138 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:22:54pm |
Mitt's really going for wingnut talking points now.
| 139 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:22:56pm |
Romney in general, just walked away from the GOP platform. We'll see tomorrow.
| 140 |
Reverend Mother Ramallo Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:22:58pm |
re: #125 SanFranciscoZionist
He's never been a gifted debater. Too cerebral. Better giving a speech.
Yeah, they were concerned he would become prof. Obama.
| 141 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:23:04pm |
Another memorized zinger: "You're entitled to your own airplane and your own house, but not your own facts."
| 143 |
nines09 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:23:25pm |
Taking over the healthcare system again. Slap this bitch.
| 144 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:23:31pm |
| 145 |
KiTA Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:23:35pm |
Zinger, first one I noticed: "You're entitled to your own plane and your own house, but not your own facts."
| 146 |
ReamWorks SKG Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:23:35pm |
I'm in Montreal, missing it all. I'm eating Poutine
| 147 |
jaunte Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:23:36pm |
"You're entitled to your own garage elevator and offshore accounts, but not your own facts."
| 148 |
Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:23:39pm |
Vouchers will be the nail in the coffin for the middle class.
| 149 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:23:40pm |
re: #130 freetoken
I keep going back to Harry Truman - he would have cleaned the floor with Mitt by now.
Our "leaders" really have lost the ability to argue in debates, that matter anyway.
It probably happened around the same time as we lost the ability to actually have a real debate instead of a pander athon.
| 150 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:23:43pm |
re: #141 Charles Johnson
Another memorized zinger: "You're entitled to your own airplane and your own house, but not your own facts."
yep
| 152 |
Kaessa Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:23:50pm |
Because "No Child Left Behind" has worked so well. Let's keep grading the schools.
| 153 |
Kragar Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:23:52pm |
| 155 |
God of Binders with Women Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:23:56pm |
Hey, Romney, how would that $90B you just spoke of been REDISTRIBUTED to the states? You are talking about federal dollars, by the way.
| 156 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:23:56pm |
re: #102 Targetpractice
Yep, he pulled his chameleon act tonight. I'm curious as to how the wingnuts are gonna respond to all this.
They'll be crowing about him defeating Obama head-to-head rather than paying any attention to what Romney actually said.
| 157 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:24:09pm |
re: #141 Charles Johnson
Another memorized zinger: "You're entitled to your own airplane and your own house, but not your own facts."
It's DARVO also because Mitt Romney is nothing if not about having his own facts.
| 158 |
calochortus Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:24:17pm |
I'm getting the distinct impression that Mitt thinks he's still governor of MA.
| 159 |
wrenchwench Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:24:41pm |
re: #157 jamesfirecat
It's DARVO also because Mitt Romney is nothing if not about having his own facts.
And at least 3 houses....
| 160 |
Tigger2 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:24:50pm |
| 161 |
bratwurst Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:25:14pm |
You would think Massachusetts schools were terrible before Romney arrived on the scene.
| 162 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:25:18pm |
#Romney Okay. This is a great performance. I almost believed that Mitt cares about the hurting 47% that he said he didn't care about. Oscar?— Mark Ruffalo (@Mruff221) October 4, 2012
| 163 |
researchok Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:25:26pm |
re: #151 Gus
This debate has been astonishing in how it has been manipulated.
Soon to be a textbook case in poli sci
| 164 |
Someone Please Beam Me Up! Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:25:31pm |
Being rich makes Romney entitled to (or at least able to afford) his own airplane and his own house, AND his own facts -- what else is money for?
| 166 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:25:40pm |
We have to work on a colaberative basis...
And Democrats have to agree with me if they want anything at all to get done...
| 167 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:25:44pm |
So Willard has become "Mitt McCain," talking big about bipartisanship. Fuck me running, but the man can spin on his heel with ease that'd scare figure skaters.
| 168 |
God of Binders with Women Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:25:44pm |
If Romney thinks reaching across the aisle to work with the Democrats is going to impress the Tea Party nuts, heh heh heh...
| 169 |
jaunte Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:25:47pm |
" Despite Romney’s professed expertise in creating jobs, Massachusetts ranked 47th in job growth during his time as governor."
| 170 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:25:48pm |
"You've done a great job, Jim." PANTS ON FIRE #debate— Andy Cobb (@AndyCobb) October 4, 2012
| 171 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:26:13pm |
re: #146 ReamWorks SKG
I'm in Montreal, missing it all. I'm eating Poutine
He endorsed George W. Bush, didn't he?
| 172 |
Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:26:16pm |
re: #165 Kaessa
And Obama hasn't tried to reach across the aisle? Pfft.
And gotten his hand bitten every time.
| 174 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:26:33pm |
re: #151 Gus
Sorry Jim but your debate sucked.
He actually did fairly well. He didn't let candidates walk over him and bully for extra time. He let them talk without badgering. It was a decent performance.
| 176 |
diamonda2u Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:27:03pm |
re: #145 KiTA
Zinger, first one I noticed: "You're entitled to your own plane and your own house, but not your own facts."
Huh? I guess you have to be there... especially coming from a rich spoiled man who has a plane and multiple homes... it's just dum
| 177 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:27:11pm |
One major difference, Mitt.
The Massachusetts Legislature didn't state on day one that their only goal was to make you a one-term governor, and to block any legislation that you proposed.
On the other hand, Republicans flatly stated that regarding Obama.
| 178 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:27:13pm |
re: #163 researchok
Hopefully the President has campaign advisors he'll actually listen to, and tell him to stop wandering in this answers.
Now, with 30 seconds left he starts to make his sentences to the point. The previous 89.5 minutes he wandered and wandered...
| 179 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:27:15pm |
You're going to be too busy your first day Romney, repealing Obamacare, to getting any bipartisian deal done.
TRUTH
| 180 |
jhrhv Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:27:21pm |
Obama is suffering from talking about reality while Mitt is talking fantasy.
| 181 |
researchok Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:27:21pm |
An off night for Obama, exacerbated by Lehrer's manipulation
| 182 |
wrenchwench Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:27:23pm |
re: #174 Killgore Trout
He actually did fairly well. He didn't let candidates walk over him and bully for extra time. He let them talk without badgering. It was a decent performance.
Romney walked over him like a rug.
It was so smooth and uncontested by Lehrer that you didn't notice.
| 183 |
Reverend Mother Ramallo Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:27:42pm |
Seriously all Mitt did was reiterate his stump speeches.
Facts are hard.
| 185 |
God of Binders with Women Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:27:43pm |
I feel really bad for the troops. 87 minutes in, and NOW Afghanistan and Iraq gets mentioned. What a disgrace. Nobody gives a shit about it anymore, and it's really, really sad.
| 186 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:27:56pm |
re: #179 Blackity Black Black!
You're going to be too busy your first day Romney, repealing Obamacare, to getting any bipartisian deal done.
TRUTH
Yeah no kidding.
| 187 |
JamesWI Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:28:00pm |
In the end, I think this debate was a wash. Obama was too passive and wonky, but he has the facts and specifics on his side. Mitt was polished and professional, but I have to think even undecideds can see through some of the bullshit he was spewing.
Mitt was basing his whole campaign on "dominating" the debates. I doubt he succeeded there. But I guess we'll have to wait and see.
| 188 |
Amory Blaine Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:28:06pm |
re: #179 Blackity Black Black!
You're going to be too busy your first day Romney, repealing Obamacare, to getting any bipartisian deal done.
TRUTH
"The democrats you sit down at the table with will be happy with that."
He he.
| 189 |
wrenchwench Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:28:17pm |
Tomorrow, Romney will be trashed by the wingnuts for running to the center.
| 190 |
krypto Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:28:25pm |
The only thing Romney will spend Day One doing is memorizing where the toilets are in the White House.
| 191 |
researchok Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:28:33pm |
re: #178 freetoken
I hope he can fix that for the next debate, in that we deserve a real exchange for people to make an informed decision
| 192 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:28:48pm |
Too little too late. Obama finished nice but I think Mitt pulled this one out of his ass.
| 193 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:28:53pm |
re: #189 wrenchwench
Tomorrow, Romney will be trashed by the wingnuts for running to the center.
Depends on how the voters respond to it. He gets the "win" from them, the wingnuts will grumble but will ultimately accept whatever they can get.
| 194 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:29:04pm |
re: #189 wrenchwench
Nah. They hate Obama so much that all they'll care about is how bad the President did, which will make them happy enough to ignore that Mitt is not Ayn Rand.
| 195 |
Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:29:07pm |
Eh, some mumbling at the start of his final word there.
| 196 |
JamesWI Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:29:13pm |
re: #189 wrenchwench
Tomorrow, Romney will be trashed by the wingnuts for running to the center.
You think the wingnuts will be honest enough to do that? They've suddenly grown principles?
| 197 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:29:14pm |
re: #189 wrenchwench
Tomorrow, Romney will be trashed by the wingnuts for running to the center.
Nope. The team is more important. They will view this as a defeat of Obama and say that - and nothing about Romney's statements.
| 199 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:29:21pm |
Cutting PBS support (0.012% of budget) to help balance the Federal budget is like deleting text files to make room on your 500Gig hard drive— Neil deGrasse Tyson (@neiltyson) October 4, 2012
| 200 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:29:44pm |
| 201 |
jaunte Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:29:45pm |
I'm sorry, but fuck you, Mitt. I do not trust states to provide healthcare. I lived in Texas.
— Wine Librarian(@winelibrarian) October 4, 2012
| 202 |
Tigger2 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:29:49pm |
re: #192 Killgore Trout
Too little too late. Obama finished nice but I think Mitt pulled this one out of his ass.
You can do that when you don't depend on facts.
| 203 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:29:50pm |
re: #185 Kid A
I feel really bad for the troops. 87 minutes in, and NOW Afghanistan and Iraq gets mentioned. What a disgrace. Nobody gives a shit about it anymore, and it's really, really sad.
They'll be the core of the foreign policy debate.
| 204 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:29:56pm |
re: #199 Lidane
[Embedded content]
Heh nice analogy but yeah Mitt's so courageous for wanting to cut PBS but not DoD waste.
| 205 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:29:58pm |
Okay, I'm just spitballing here, but maybe we could spice up the next episode by having each guy slimed Nickelodeon-style when he lies.— Wil Wheaton (@wilw) October 4, 2012
| 206 |
krypto Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:30:13pm |
Team Obama needs to call Romney out on that $716 billion from Medicare Lie.
| 207 |
JamesWI Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:30:17pm |
re: #192 Killgore Trout
Too little too late. Obama finished nice but I think Mitt pulled this one out of his ass.
But a close win for Romney is still a loss, going by his own strategy. He bet everything on the debates. He needs to blow Obama out of the water to turn the tide, and I think you have to admit he didn't do that tonight.
| 208 |
Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:30:28pm |
re: #196 JamesWI
You think the wingnuts will be honest enough to do that? They've suddenly grown principles?
Pffft, tomorrow Romney will do another complete 180 and change all his principles and policies again, just like he did for the debate tonight.
| 209 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:30:30pm |
re: #187 JamesWI
In the end, I think this debate was a wash. Obama was too passive and wonky, but he has the facts and specifics on his side. Mitt was polished and professional, but I have to think even undecideds can see through some of the bullshit he was spewing.
Mitt was basing his whole campaign on "dominating" the debates. I doubt he succeeded there. But I guess we'll have to wait and see.
That's my feeling. I'm not saying Obama "won". It just seems to be a wash. The debate has been kinda meh. I'm watching the lines for viewer reactions on CNN and they never move far from the midline for with candidate. This was just boring.
| 210 |
Reverend Mother Ramallo Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:30:49pm |
| 211 |
diamonda2u Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:30:51pm |
re: #187 JamesWI
In the end, I think this debate was a wash. Obama was too passive and wonky, but he has the facts and specifics on his side. Mitt was polished and professional, but I have to think even undecideds can see through some of the bullshit he was spewing.
Mitt was basing his whole campaign on "dominating" the debates. I doubt he succeeded there. But I guess we'll have to wait and see.
I just don't really believe there is this vast pool of undecideds who are really clueless about the two candidates is out there. I mean even undecideds know what Mitt is running for and they know who Obama is. Only wingnut undecideds and those that are just going to stay home are really undecided.
| 213 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:31:14pm |
re: #199 Lidane
Tyson is trying to help the masses with analogies. He is a real educator, and knows that abstract concepts are hard for many and thus analogies are an important tool.
| 214 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:31:26pm |
| 215 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:31:50pm |
overall I think it was a wash myself. Everyone said Romney needed to go big tonight and he failed. Obama did no harm to himself and didn't give any ammo or ground.
| 217 |
Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:32:10pm |
re: #211 diamonda2u
I just don't really believe there is this vast pool of undecideds who are really clueless about the two candidates is out there. I mean even undecideds know what Mitt is running for and they know who Obama is. Only wingnut undecideds and those that are just going to stay home are really undecided.
I think these people are nothing more than drama queens and me-first jagoffs who think they're special snowflakes and principled defenders of democracy because they haven't made up their minds yet.
| 219 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:32:21pm |
re: #209 moderatelyradicalliberal
That's my feeling. I'm not saying Obama "won". It just seems to be a wash. The debate has been kinda meh. I'm watching the lines for viewer reactions on CNN and they never move far from the midline for with candidate. This was just boring.
The Prez didn't need to change the direction of the campaign, Romney did need to. Draw goes to Obama.
| 220 |
wrenchwench Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:32:26pm |
FACT CHECK: Obama tells Lehrer he's done a great job.— Sarah Posner (@sarahposner) October 4, 2012
| 223 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:32:50pm |
Mitt - 7.5 out of 10
President - 4 out of 10.
| 224 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:32:53pm |
re: #217 Ghost of Tom Joad
I think these people are nothing more than drama queens and me-first jagoffs who think they're special snowflakes and principled defenders of democracy because they haven't made up their minds yet.
I don't really believe they exist.
| 225 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:32:58pm |
So, Romney is using his closing statement to repeat multiple whopper-level lies?
So not surprised here.
| 226 |
darthstar Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:33:04pm |
Okay...I want to hear what Rachel has to say.
| 229 |
bratwurst Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:33:08pm |
| 231 |
nines09 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:33:12pm |
So Mitt didn't shit his pants and Obama didn't come out swinging. Of course Mitt never let a lie stop his lips from moving, but what else is new? So Mitt and his magical unseen plan will remain unseen and we will have to wait and see if Obama understands what it is like to address a pathological liar and call him out on it.
| 232 |
calochortus Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:33:12pm |
| 233 |
engineer cat Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:33:13pm |
if people think romney won the debate, he may get lucky and cut the president's lead to only 8 points in pennsylvania and ohio
| 234 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:33:16pm |
Well, Kudos to team Mitt. They did well. Hopefully camp Obama will take note and notice their opponent isn't and imbecile.
| 235 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:33:26pm |
re: #223 freetoken
Mitt - 7.5 out of 10
President - 4 out of 10.
I'll have to agree, Obama had a lot of opportunities there and he missed them. Question is, why? If he was going easy, for fear of making a grievous error, then he did himself no favors.
| 236 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:33:50pm |
re: #234 Killgore Trout
Well, Kudos to team Mitt. They did well. Hopefully camp Obama will take note and notice their opponent isn't and imbecile.
Yeah, he's a just a liar.
| 237 |
krypto Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:33:50pm |
Gads - Romney repeated the $716 billion from Medicare lie for the fourth time.
How could Obama NOT have been expecting that one and been prepared to challenge it?
| 238 |
Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:33:53pm |
re: #224 SanFranciscoZionist
I don't really believe they exist.
I'd have to agree, they probably DO know who they're voting for, but, as I said, they like the attention and 'status' of being undeciderers.
| 239 |
Gus Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:34:00pm |
Regrettably, I am giving the win to Romney.— JoeMyGod (@JoeMyGod) October 4, 2012
| 240 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:34:02pm |
| 241 |
researchok Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:34:02pm |
For the VP debates, much as I'd enjoy it Biden at full tilt, I suggest he stick to decaf.
| 242 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:34:23pm |
re: #215 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance
overall I think it was a wash myself. Everyone said Romney needed to go big tonight and he failed. Obama did no harm to himself and didn't give any ammo or ground.
Challenger who's behind: Go big and get a big win.
Incumbent who's ahead: Do no harm.
But either way, if the MSM doesn't declare that Mitt "knocked it out of the park", I'll eat my favorite pair of shoes.
| 243 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:34:30pm |
North Koreans should be grateful tonight that Dad banned television. #debate— KimJongNumberUn (@KimJongNumberUn) October 4, 2012
| 244 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:34:35pm |
re: #228 Mocking Jay
Holy crap was that boring...
Details always are.
Think about the last meeting that you sat through...
And this was about details.
I'm afraid the days when you could get a speech like Lincoln's Peoria speech are over.
| 245 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:34:40pm |
| 246 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:34:41pm |
re: #192 Killgore Trout
Too little too late. Obama finished nice but I think Mitt pulled this one out of his ass.
I'll cede this as your field of expertise.
| 247 |
diamonda2u Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:34:43pm |
re: #234 Killgore Trout
Well, Kudos to team Mitt. They did well. Hopefully camp Obama will take note and notice their opponent isn't and imbecile.
Umm, spouting your lies without drooling odes not equate to doing well. He still a lying imbecile, he just needs his own show like Sarah Palin and Kim K
| 248 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:35:40pm |
I though you cared about the facts KT?
Romney lied quite a lot.
But, you don't care.
| 249 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:35:42pm |
I think it's long past time to scrap the traditional TV debate format. The world is a complicated place, and I'm not convinced that ideas that can be expressed inside 2 minutes are necessarily worth hearing.
| 250 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:35:43pm |
Like I said, the pundits are gonna argue that "Mitt held his own," but beyond that, we'll have to see what the polls next week say. My guess is that Mitt didn't get the sorta performance he needed to wow them, but didn't do grievous damage to his chances.
| 251 |
erik_t Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:35:51pm |
The only truly honest and correct and factual reaction of the evening: that was a profound waste of everyone's time.
| 252 |
Opal Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:35:51pm |
If I was an "undecided voter" and didn't know squat, I'd vote for Romney. Not knowing that Romney was lying his arse off, undecideds just got a fill of somebody who is alpha. They'll vote for Romney.
| 253 |
jaunte Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:35:51pm |
Doesn't anyone remember that partisans thought Obama blew every debate by being boring last time but won undecideds each time?
— Robert Mackey (@RobertMackey) October 4, 2012
| 254 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:35:51pm |
re: #235 Targetpractice
His inability to call Mitt on the $716 billion thing, and also to point out that Mitt ran from Romneycare all during the primary season, and allowing Mitt to go on about $90 billion for "green energy" and comparing that to a yearly spiffs the oil companies get on their tax returns, and so on.
Obama failed his constituents tonight.
| 255 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:36:13pm |
re: #241 researchok
For the VP debates, much as I'd enjoy it Biden at full tilt, I suggest he stick to decaf.
I disagree. Give him a triple espresso with some sugar cubes to slurp it through, and let him go berserk.
| 257 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:36:30pm |
re: #247 diamonda2u
Umm, spouting your lies without drooling odes not equate to doing well. He still alying imbecile, he just needs his own show like Sarah Palin and Kim K
You're missing the point. It doesn't matter if he lied, or if anything he said maps onto reality at all. It only matters how he looked on TV. Therein lies the problem.
| 258 |
Barflytom Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:36:50pm |
Rather a shellacking, wasn't it ?
Obama is a wanker, and Romney is obviously a far more capable and accomplished man, but I wasn't sure he'd win the debate. Well, he did, didn't he ?
| 259 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:37:02pm |
my rating: Romney won the debate, Obama had the facts on his side, and Lehrer sucked. Next debate, get @sethmacfarlane to host!— Bill Maher (@billmaher) October 4, 2012
| 260 |
aagcobb Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:37:13pm |
re: #237 krypto
Gads - Romney repeated the $716 billion from Medicare lie for the fourth time.
How could Obama NOT have been expecting that one and been prepared to challenge it?
Well he did, he just didn't keep repeating it.
| 261 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:37:13pm |
I get the feeling that Obama's team is going to tell him for future debates that he needs to hit Romney HARD when he states outright lies like he did tonight.
| 262 |
danhenry1 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:37:20pm |
I think there is stuff going on in the world right now that may have the President distracted..
| 263 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:37:22pm |
re: #254 freetoken
His inability to call Mitt on the $716 billion thing, and also to point out that Mitt ran from Romneycare all during the primary season, and allowing Mitt to go on about $90 billion for "green energy" and comparing that to a yearly spiffs the oil companies get on their tax returns, and so on.
Obama failed his constituents tonight.
Like I said, the question is why he didn't jump at those. My only guess is his campaign advised him not to come off as aggressive, for fear that he'd seem "confrontational" or even "defensive."
| 264 |
SpaceJesus Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:37:23pm |
Obama is a bad debater, we know this. We've known this for years. Romney isn't stellar at it either, but he is slightly better than Obama so long as the moderator is reasonably terrible.
| 265 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:37:34pm |
re: #254 freetoken
His inability to call Mitt on the $716 billion thing, and also to point out that Mitt ran from Romneycare all during the primary season, and allowing Mitt to go on about $90 billion for "green energy" and comparing that to a yearly spiffs the oil companies get on their tax returns, and so on.
Obama failed his constituents tonight.
Next time.
| 266 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:37:39pm |
re: #248 Varek Raith
I though you cared about the facts KT?
Romney lied quite a lot.
But, you don't care.
No, this is the weird procedure people go through where they try to pretend they're what they imagine the average person watching the debate is like.
I am pretty sure I'm not capable of doing that and I don't know why other people think they are.
| 267 |
researchok Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:37:41pm |
re: #255 SanFranciscoZionist
I disagree. Give him a triple espresso with some sugar cubes to slurp it through, and let him go berserk.
You go to professional wrestling matches, don't you?
//
| 268 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:37:47pm |
i'm going to givve it a day or so. I still say it's a tie.
| 269 |
diamonda2u Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:37:50pm |
re: #237 krypto
Gads - Romney repeated the $716 billion from Medicare lie for the fourth time.
How could Obama NOT have been expecting that one and been prepared to challenge it?
Yeah, that's just stupid
| 270 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:37:55pm |
re: #258 Barflytom
If by "won the debate" you mean "lied his ass off without getting called on it", then yes.
| 271 |
jhrhv Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:38:04pm |
I'd give it to Mitt. The POTUS probably should have gone after him more.
| 272 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:38:07pm |
OK, the South Park "Honey Boo Boo" episode totally kicked ass. I especially enjoyed the beatdown that Michelle Obama gave to Cartman.
What'd I miss?
| 273 |
Kragar Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:38:26pm |
re: #272 Sheila Broflovski
OK, the South Park "Honey Boo Boo" episode totally kicked ass. I especially enjoyed the beatdown that Michelle Obama gave to Cartman.
What'd I miss?
Not much.
| 274 |
JamesWI Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:38:28pm |
Romney “won” because he lied about his own plans and was absurdly vague. This is what America has become.
— Dave (@D_v_E) October 4, 2012
| 275 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:38:34pm |
re: #272 Sheila Broflovski
OK, the South Park "Honey Boo Boo" episode totally kicked ass. I especially enjoyed the beatdown that Michelle Obama gave to Cartman.
What'd I miss?
Something less exciting than watching paint dry.
| 276 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:38:50pm |
re: #261 RadicalModerate
I get the feeling that Obama's team is going to tell him for future debates that he needs to hit Romney HARD when he states outright lies like he did tonight.
But he's blackity black black.
States Rights!
| 277 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:38:55pm |
re: #258 Barflytom
Since next debate is going to be about foreign policy, are you hoping that Romney brings up Obama's birth certificate?
| 278 |
wrenchwench Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:39:04pm |
re: #262 danhenry1
I think there is stuff going on in the world right now that may have the President distracted..
It is his 20th wedding anniversary....maybe he has big plans for after..
| 279 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:39:04pm |
re: #258 Barflytom
Rather a shellacking, wasn't it ?
Obama is a wanker, and Romney is obviously a far more capable and accomplished man, but I wasn't sure he'd win the debate. Well, he did, didn't he ?
SHUT UP! WE DID NOT LOSE VIETNAM! IT WAS A TIE!!!!
///Actually, I think it was pretty close. They were both fairly lackluster, but pretty well matched. Smart moves for Mitt, nothing good for Obama.
| 280 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:39:10pm |
re: #268 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance
i'm going to givve it a day or so. I still say it's a tie.
Me too. I don't get his magnificent performance everybody else saw.
| 281 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:39:15pm |
re: #274 JamesWI
[Embedded content]
Pretty much. We got Willard's chameleon act tonight, with him now denying everything he's been saying for months and trying to come off as "centrist."
| 282 |
bratwurst Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:39:21pm |
Kid asks, "Daddy, do all fairy tales starts out 'Once Upon A Time?'" "No honey" the Dad says. "Some start out 'Once I'm elected.'" #Debate— Gilbert Gottfried (@RealGilbert) October 4, 2012
| 283 |
Tigger2 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:39:22pm |
Romney just completely dissed the right wing of his party tonight, I hope they're happy.
| 284 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:39:35pm |
Romney won yet didn't hit it out of the park. He merely looked competent.
He needed to actually do better than this. This whole debate seemed to be aimed at the RW base.
| 285 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:39:41pm |
re: #256 Gus
Sucks. Game one. Romney.
Game on. Let's not fuck around with this. I never thought there was a serious chance Mitt may win. Now I'm not so sure.
| 286 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:40:01pm |
Domestic issues debate skipped environment, LGBT rights, abortion, equal pay, and basically everything other than tax and budget.— Matt Yglesias (@mattyglesias) October 4, 2012
| 287 |
jhrhv Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:40:09pm |
Those last few days of late night coding updates to Romneybot paid off.
| 288 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:40:12pm |
re: #280 moderatelyradicalliberal
it was only remarkable in that Romney didn't drool all over himself and managed to speak in complete sentences.
| 289 |
jaunte Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:40:13pm |
re: #283 Tigger2
They don't care about ideas or reality, they only care about winning.
| 290 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:40:19pm |
And yeah, in one word: Boring. Can't see how a simple repetition of his positions and lies is really going to help him. Doubt there are that many undecided or leaners who will say "The President was lackluster in that debate, therefore I change my vote."
And while Romney started out being enough of a jackass to appease the right-wing, he then finally swung hard towards the middle on Romneycare, endorsing it. That typically gets them all riled up at him, and it also makes him seem odd when he then goes screaming back to the far-right a few sentences later.
| 291 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:40:21pm |
| 292 |
Reverend Mother Ramallo Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:40:29pm |
Well, it looks like body language trumps truth.
Bad moderator equals bad debate.
It was lame.
| 293 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:40:30pm |
re: #284 Varek Raith
Romney won yet didn't hit it out of the park. He merely looked competent.
He needed to actually do better than this. This whole debate seemed to be aimed at the RW base.
Willard pretty much gave the same performance he did in the primaries: He wasn't stellar, but he wasn't an utter fuck-up.
| 295 |
diamonda2u Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:40:41pm |
re: #295 diamonda2u
Sounds like folks think the debate sucked because the moderator sucked and Obama let Romney get away with lies. No one bought the lies, he just ran on and on confidently about lies that folks know were lies.
| 297 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:41:05pm |
re: #286 Lidane
[Embedded content]
Issues by the way are the only ones that Romney comes close to Obama on in polls. Let's see how Mitt handles questions about gay marriage, choice, etc.
| 298 |
danarchy Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:41:08pm |
re: #284 Varek Raith
Romney won yet didn't hit it out of the park. He merely looked competent.
He needed to actually do better than this. This whole debate seemed to be aimed at the RW base.
I find it amusing some people are saying he pivoted to the center and others are saying he played to his base. All in the eyes of the beholder.
| 299 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:41:10pm |
It doesn't matter that Mitt lied through his fucking teeth.He had to change the narrative.He did it. #sociopath #debate— Patton Oswalt (@pattonoswalt) October 4, 2012
| 301 |
erik_t Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:41:21pm |
I made the mistake of devoting a few hours to that snoozefest. I'm not making the mistake of devoting a few more hours to discussing it.
Good night, everyone. I'm going to go do something more productive and interesting, like slam my [REDACTED] in a kitchen drawer.
| 302 |
Gus Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:41:24pm |
re: #285 Killgore Trout
Game on. Let's not fuck around with this. I never thought there was a serious chance Mitt may win. Now I'm not so sure.
Just goes to show. You never know what will happen. Tonight, Obama was asleep at the wheel.
| 304 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:41:27pm |
re: #283 Tigger2
Romney just completely dissed the right wing of his party tonight, I hope they're happy.
they don't care. he WON.
| 305 |
JRCMYP Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:41:33pm |
My 11 year old son's response to the debates:
"Romney seems like kinda a jerk. And he's repeating a lot of the same stuff that he doesn't need to repeat. Obama has a good plan saying we don't need to cut taxes for the big gas industries because I think that they can pay for it. And I noticed that neither of them said anything about how the poor are going to handle the economy. I like that Obama isn't cutting taxes for the rich because they can pay for it."
I didn't say a word. A.Word.
| 306 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:41:51pm |
re: #299 Lidane
[Embedded content]
He did change the narrative. Problem was he pretty much had to discard everything he's been running on since last year.
| 307 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:42:14pm |
| 308 |
Altermite Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:42:23pm |
Yeah, romney won that in terms of everything except substance. Of course, substance is only one element of debate, as anyone who has ever done mock trial can tell you...
| 309 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:42:27pm |
re: #305 JRCMYP
My 11 year old son's response to the debates:
"Romney seems like kinda a jerk. And he's repeating a lot of the same stuff that he doesn't need to repeat. Obama has a good plan saying we don't need to cut taxes for the big gas industries because I think that they can pay for it. And I noticed that neither of them said anything about how the poor are going to handle the economy. I like that Obama isn't cutting taxes for the rich because they can pay for it."
I didn't say a word. A.Word.
Out of the mouths of babes.
| 310 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:42:37pm |
re: #306 Targetpractice
He did change the narrative. Problem was he pretty much had to discard everything he's been running on since last year.
Which I hope POTUS and his surrogates hit hard on in the next month.
| 311 |
Tigger2 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:42:43pm |
re: #296 Killgore Trout
Yeah, looks like a win for Mitt.
And if he wins the Presidency it will be a loss for the middle class.
| 312 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:42:43pm |
Looks like a wash to me. Nobody who's undecided is going to change their mind, and people who actually understand the facts are aware of how much Romney lied.
| 313 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:42:56pm |
re: #298 danarchy
I find it amusing some people are saying he pivoted to the center and others are saying he played to his base. All in the eyes of the beholder.
No, he was pulling out all RW talking points.
He wasn't going for the center.
He was going for the right wingers who are still unsure of him.
| 314 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:43:15pm |
re: #280 moderatelyradicalliberal
Me too. I don't get his magnificent performance everybody else saw.
He was good. He was on, he hit the right notes, and he didn't say anything crazy. He sounded presidential.
| 315 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:43:15pm |
Kilgore talks surfing and napalm
| 316 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:43:25pm |
re: #298 danarchy
I find it amusing some people are saying he pivoted to the center and others are saying he played to his base. All in the eyes of the beholder.
Some things are meat for the base, like the lie about cutting Medicare. Some parts were pivoting to the middle, like his new embrace of Romneycare. Because that's Mitt's navigational ability. He did the Kessel run in under twelve parsecs.
| 318 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:43:40pm |
re: #316 Sheeplord
Some things are meat for the base, like the lie about cutting Medicare. Some parts were pivoting to the middle, like his new embrace of Romneycare. Because that's Mitt's navigational ability. He did the Kessel run in under twelve parsecs.
Yep.
| 319 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:43:41pm |
re: #281 Targetpractice
Pretty much. We got Willard's chameleon act tonight, with him now denying everything he's been saying for months and trying to come off as "centrist."
Oddly, I suspect tonight's persona of being more authentic than the one he's been going with.
| 320 |
Talking Point Detective Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:43:46pm |
re: #3 Killgore Trout
Yeah, it's not looking good. I'm surprised.
Heh. I'm shocked that you're "surprised."
| 321 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:44:05pm |
Oh, Jesus I can't take the hysteria from the MSM. I knew it was coming, but good God.
Yes, fine Willard won the election tonight. They have been building things up for this.
| 322 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:44:06pm |
re: #283 Tigger2
Romney just completely dissed the right wing of his party tonight, I hope they're happy.
If they're not used to that by now, they should be.
| 323 |
Tigger2005 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:44:07pm |
I read that Obama absolutely OWNED the Republicans at one of their own events a short time ago. I wish that Obama had shown up.
| 324 |
wrenchwench Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:44:25pm |
Later, lizards.
| 325 |
researchok Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:44:26pm |
re: #279 SanFranciscoZionist
I was surprised, but I believe Romney was the definitive winner tonight.
Lehrer, more than Romney, kept Obama on the defensive.
| 327 |
Talking Point Detective Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:44:57pm |
re: #285 Killgore Trout
Game on. Let's not fuck around with this. I never thought there was a serious chance Mitt may win. Now I'm not so sure.
Right. So you ignored all the pollsters who said that this would be a close race?
| 328 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:45:03pm |
CNN & MSNBC Commentators: "Holy Sh*t! Mitt didn't vomit on himself.FOX Commentators: Mitt just drank your milkshake, Bitch!— Timothy Omundson (@Omundson) October 4, 2012
| 329 |
diamonda2u Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:45:05pm |
re: #312 Charles Johnson
Looks like a wash to me. Nobody who's undecided is going to change their mind, and people who actually understand the facts are aware of how much Romney lied.
Yeah, a wash but folks are pissed, mainly libs that Obama didn't not call out the lies. That I can agree with, but no one is changing their mind for Romney because he got to lie, but O is sure gonna hear about it.
| 330 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:45:12pm |
re: #319 SanFranciscoZionist
Oddly, I suspect tonight's persona of being more authentic than the one he's been going with.
And if the Freepers are anything to go by, they're willing to overlook this metamorphosis if they think it'll help him "win" the debates.
| 331 |
prairiefire Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:45:12pm |
Well, this explains why Michelle had to tell him "Come on"and he dropped the mike at the end of his speech. That was Chris Rock's tweet ~ "My favorite part of Obama's speech was when he dropped the mike at the end."
Can we somehow clone a Clinton appendage onto him? A new stem cell miracle?
| 332 |
Gus Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:45:18pm |
After tonight I would have to say that dropping PBS funding is fine with me.
//
| 333 |
Sionainn Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:45:18pm |
re: #261 RadicalModerate
I get the feeling that Obama's team is going to tell him for future debates that he needs to hit Romney HARD when he states outright lies like he did tonight.
I have a feeling that Michelle is going to tell him that.
| 334 |
engineer cat Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:45:18pm |
how many of the people here who think that romney will benefit from this debate also thought at the time that the republican convention was going to give him a lift?
we'll see if this leads to romney leading in pennsylvania, ohio, and florida in a week
| 335 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:45:24pm |
re: #325 researchok
Lehrer, more than Romney, kept Obama on the defensive.
Time management.
Obama was going along at his own tempo, and Lehrer was listening to a different drummer.
| 336 |
RadicalModerate Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:45:50pm |
re: #312 Charles Johnson
Looks like a wash to me. Nobody who's undecided is going to change their mind, and people who actually understand the facts are aware of how much Romney lied.
Yeah, this served more to energize the Romney base that they horribly dropped the ball on during the Republican National Convention. Obama didn't fare nearly as well in this regard. Fortunately for him, there will be two more debates, of which both topics and formats are much more in line with the President's strengths.
| 337 |
Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:45:56pm |
re: #316 Sheeplord
It was almost Romney's version of eleven-dimensional chess. He changed his stance on just about every policy and position he's taken, so he did it again during the debate just to screw with Obama's head. It seems to have worked.
| 338 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:46:09pm |
re: #332 Gus
After tonight I would have to say that dropping PBS funding is fine with me.
//
No tote bag for you!
| 339 |
jaunte Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:46:17pm |
#Romney Okay. This is a great performance. I almost believed that Mitt cares about the hurting 47% that he said he didn't care about. Oscar?
— Mark Ruffalo (@Mruff221) October 4, 2012
| 341 |
Barflytom Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:47:02pm |
re: #285 Killgore Trout
Game on. Let's not fuck around with this. I never thought there was a serious chance Mitt may win. Now I'm not so sure.
I've never been able to get my head around the possibility that Obama might get elected for a second term. What ever made you think he was going to be a two term president ? The man has been a disaster for the country.
| 342 |
JeffM70 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:47:09pm |
I think Romney has the stronger debate, but not sure how much difference it will make in the long run. I suspect nationally the race will be a statistical tie, but on the state level Romney will still be in trouble.
| 343 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:47:10pm |
re: #334 engineer cat
He'll benefit from it because people will be talking about how well he did.
Which is why those who don't like Romney keep trying to say he didn't do as well as some others of us perceive he did. Because of the band-wagon effect, if enough people say Romney did well, he will be received in a better light, and his statements will be given a greater truth value.
| 344 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:47:30pm |
re: #339 jaunte
[Embedded content]
R-Money is a great liar. We knew that. Now lets watch the MSM declare R-Money the winner just like they were planning on doing all along. The R-Money comeback story was inevitable.
| 345 |
prairiefire Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:47:36pm |
re: #334 engineer cat
We are down to the demographic that numbers about the same amount of tiny hairs inside your ear. These undecideds make me weary.
| 346 |
diamonda2u Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:47:53pm |
re: #339 jaunte
For real? RMoney says to a room of rich donors behind closed doors, to friends, I don't give a crap about 47%, on tv with a camera and makeup he grins and tells you he cares and you believe it? You deserve Kim K as your girlfriend if you buy that.
| 347 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:48:26pm |
Still, Romney failed to give any kind of specifics.
More vagueness and subject changing.
Funny we consider this a 'winner' in this country.
| 348 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:48:27pm |
re: #341 Barflytom
I've never been able to get my head around the possibility that Obama might get elected for a second term. What ever made you think he was going to be a two term president ? The man has been a disaster for the country.
I like him but Obama got his clock cleaned tonight. That's a fact.
| 349 |
JamesWI Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:48:28pm |
Ok, let's really break it down.
Romney won over the people who were already voting for him, and the undecideds who haven't paid attention to anything in this race up until tonight.
Obama won over the people who were already voting for him, and the undecideds who actually have heard Mitt Romney speak before tonight.
| 350 |
Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:48:32pm |
re: #341 Barflytom
I've never been able to get my head around the possibility that Obama might get elected for a second term. What ever made you think he was going to be a two term president ? The man has been a disaster for the country.
Just...for reference...could you show us on a GI Joe doll where the President touched you? (literally, what has he done that has so negatively changed your life that you throw this much vitriol at him?)
| 351 |
researchok Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:48:39pm |
re: #335 freetoken
Time management.
Obama was going along at his own tempo, and Lehrer was listening to a different drummer.
That, and Obama was never given the opportunity to address national security, terrorism and so on.
Those are his unimpeachable strong suits.
| 352 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:48:51pm |
re: #341 Barflytom
I've never been able to get my head around the possibility that Obama might get elected for a second term. What ever made you think he was going to be a two term president ? The man has been a disaster for the country.
Stand by, dude.
| 354 |
diamonda2u Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:49:05pm |
re: #349 JamesWI
Ok, let's really break it down.
Romney won over the people who were already voting for him, and the undecideds who haven't paid attention to anything in this race up until tonight.
Obama won over the people who were already voting for him, and the undecideds who actually have heard Mitt Romney speak before tonight.
Exactly
| 355 |
Gus Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:49:12pm |
re: #347 Varek Raith
Still, Romney failed to give any kind of specifics.
More vagueness and subject changing.
Funny we consider this a 'winner' in this country.
Nope. Was just an Obama rag on.
| 356 |
nines09 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:49:12pm |
Mitt likes Big Bird. Big Bird just has to get a real job. One that pays real money. Like $8.75 an hour. And that pork shortage they are calling for? Miss Piggy will have to sacrifice a bit. Maybe more. Besides PBS has these confusing shows. With numbers and songs and music and facts and pictures. Quite confusing. Too expensive.
| 358 |
researchok Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:49:19pm |
re: #341 Barflytom
So in addition to being stupid, you are also boring.
| 359 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:49:19pm |
re: #346 diamonda2u
For real? RMoney says to a room of rich donors behind closed doors, to friends, I don't give a crap about 47%, on tv with a camera and makeup he grins and tells you he cares and you believe it? You deserve Kim K as your girlfriend if you buy that.
Ruffalo's an actor himself. He's just joking around there.
| 360 |
diamonda2u Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:49:23pm |
| 361 |
jaunte Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:49:24pm |
As predictable as the sunrise RT @mlcalderone Gergen: "A week ago, people were saying this was over. We've got a horse race."
— Greg Sargent (@ThePlumLineGS) October 4, 2012
| 362 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:49:26pm |
re: #346 diamonda2u
For real? RMoney says to a room of rich donors behind closed doors, to friends, I don't give a crap about 47%, on tv with a camera and makeup he grins and tells you he cares and you believe it? You deserve Kim K as your girlfriend if you buy that.
I think that was, er, sarcastic.
| 363 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:49:40pm |
re: #346 diamonda2u
You deserve Kim K as your girlfriend if you buy that.
Speaking of which:
Kim Kardashian turns to diet pills to lose weight
If only all our problems could be so easily cured.
| 364 |
Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:49:50pm |
re: #351 researchok
This debate was strictly economic in nature. I think the next one focuses on foreign policy.
| 365 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:49:52pm |
re: #348 Killgore Trout
I like him but Obama got his clock cleaned tonight. That's a fact.
I love how it's quickly moving from "was a little lackluster" to "Got his clock cleaned".
| 366 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:50:01pm |
re: #348 Killgore Trout
I like him but Obama got his clock cleaned tonight. That's a fact.
Sure, in some alternate universe.
What did you expect, for POTUS to get angry and go all "HULK SMASH!" on Mitt Romney? When has that ever been his temperament?
| 367 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:50:04pm |
re: #349 JamesWI
Ok, let's really break it down.
Romney won over the people who were already voting for him, and the undecideds who haven't paid attention to anything in this race up until tonight.
Obama won over the people who were already voting for him, and the undecideds who actually have heard Mitt Romney speak before tonight.
And that's all I'm saying.
| 369 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:50:11pm |
re: #351 researchok
That, and Obama was never given the opportunity to address national security, terrorism and so on.
Those are his unimpeachable strong suits.
They're doing a foreign policy debate later this month, I think. Tonight was all domestic.
| 370 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:50:15pm |
re: #356 nines09
Mitt likes Big Bird. Big Bird just has to get a real job. One that pays real money. Like $8.75 an hour. And that pork shortage they are calling for? Miss Piggy will have to sacrifice a bit. Maybe more. Besides PBS has these confusing shows. With numbers and songs and music and facts and pictures. Quite confusing. Too expensive.
Tell Big Bird that clean coal is hiring mineworkers.
| 371 |
diamonda2u Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:50:15pm |
re: #363 freetoken
Speaking of which:
Kim Kardashian turns to diet pills to lose weight
If only all our problems could be so easily cured.
ROFL
| 372 |
Reverend Mother Ramallo Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:50:30pm |
I also got the impression that Obama doesn't like Mitt personally.
He shouldn't let it show.
| 374 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:50:37pm |
re: #347 Varek Raith
Still, Romney failed to give any kind of specifics.
More vagueness and subject changing.
Funny we considers this a 'winner' in this country.
Unfortunately, considering we're a country that doesn't elect presidents, it elects American Idols, Romney's debate performance was what "wins." He needed to be seen as in command of the debate, as quick on his feet, and able to "look presidential." Say what one will about facts or figures, he came off looking like the guy in charge.
| 375 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:50:51pm |
re: #366 Lidane
Sure, in some alternate universe.
What did you expect, for POTUS to get angry and go all "HULK SMASH!" on Mitt Romney? When has that ever been his temperament?
Thank you. Good Lord the hysteria.
| 376 |
SpaceJesus Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:50:52pm |
re: #341 Barflytom
I think you have Obama confused with the guy you voted for twice : G.W. Bush
| 377 |
Tigger2 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:51:00pm |
re: #341 Barflytom
I've never been able to get my head around the possibility that Obama might get elected for a second term. What ever made you think he was going to be a two term president ? The man has been a disaster for the country.
The real disaster for the country started with Reagan and continued by every Republican President that came after, the only time the country did good was under Clinton.
| 378 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:51:07pm |
re: #364 Ghost of Tom Joad
This debate was strictly economic in nature. I think the next one focuses on foreign policy.
No, that's the last one. This next one is the town hall which I think is a little of both. By the way most of the issues focused on tonight were rare ones that Mitt polls better or close to Obama in. Let's see how Mitt handles questions on issues that his positions on aren't as easy to bs with.
| 379 |
engineer cat Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:51:09pm |
re: #343 freetoken
He'll benefit from it because people will be talking about how well he did.
Which is why those who don't like Romney keep trying to say he didn't do as well as some others of us perceive he did. Because of the band-wagon effect, if enough people say Romney did well, he will be received in a better light, and his statements will be given a greater truth value.
net-net, he did a good job of promoting proposals most americans don't agree with
seniors in florida aren't going to be convinced to vote for him by how good he looked when he described his plan to kill medicare for their kids
| 380 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:51:21pm |
re: #363 freetoken
Speaking of which:
Kim Kardashian turns to diet pills to lose weight
If only all our problems could be so easily cured.
OK, discussion on TMZ. If you had to live for a year with the Kardashians or with the Honey Boo Boo people, who would you choose?
Me, I go Kardashian all the way. Food will be better.
| 381 |
Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:51:51pm |
re: #378 HappyWarrior
K, thanks. Couldn't remember the schedule.
| 382 |
Interesting Times Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:52:00pm |
re: #370 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
Tell Big Bird that clean coal is hiring mineworkers.
Don't listen to pundits. This is debate takeaway>> RT @firedbigbirdLook what Mitt Romney has done to me... twitpic.com/b0syqt— Steve Weinstein (@steveweinstein) October 4, 2012
| 383 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:52:01pm |
The troll is trying to provoke angry responses. It's what they do.
| 384 |
Mich-again Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:52:02pm |
The biggest story of the day (besides Miggy's triple crown of course) is that the Islamic Republic is folding under the weight of economic sanctions finally. Their currency is collapsing, (40% drop in value against the dollar this week!) the people are back on the streets confronting the stooges. The Mullahs and Ahmadinejad can't hold on for much longer here. Out of cards to play.
When they accept they have to capitulate regarding their nuclear program, the US will fast track the end of sanctions and Iran will start exporting oil again.
That will be a huge downward force on the price of oil and be very good for the world economy.
| 385 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:52:24pm |
re: #380 SanFranciscoZionist
OK, discussion on TMZ. If you had to live for a year with the Kardashians or with the Honey Boo Boo people, who would you choose?
Me, I go Kardashian all the way. Food will be better.
Can I just walk out the air lock???
Please???
| 386 |
jaunte Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:52:25pm |
re: #379 engineer cat
Didn't you believe him when he told us how the private insurance companies would cover pre-existing conditions?
| 387 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:52:50pm |
re: #380 SanFranciscoZionist
OK, discussion on TMZ. If you had to live for a year with the Kardashians or with the Honey Boo Boo people, who would you choose?
Me, I go Kardashian all the way. Food will be better.
So would the sex.
| 388 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:53:01pm |
re: #349 JamesWI
Ok, let's really break it down.
Romney won over the people who were already voting for him, and the undecideds who haven't paid attention to anything in this race up until tonight.
Obama won over the people who were already voting for him, and the undecideds who actually have heard Mitt Romney speak before tonight.
Well, think about who the "undecideds" are at this point in the game. They're low information voters who are watching Honey Boo Boo reruns now. In the morning, they'll wake up, microwave some horrible shit, drink some instant coffee and listen to reports of Mitt doing surprisingly well on the radio on the way to their low paying jobs. This could have an effect.
| 389 |
aagcobb Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:53:10pm |
re: #369 SanFranciscoZionist
They're doing a foreign policy debate later this month, I think. Tonight was all domestic.
Though the President did slip in a reference to getting out of the wars and Bin Laden. I wish he had mentioned that Obamacare doesn't impose one method of insuring people on the states because they can apply for variances if they want another approach which is equally as effective.
| 390 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:53:17pm |
re: #384 Mich-again
The biggest story of the day (besides Miggy's triple crown of course) is that the Islamic Republic is folding under the weight of economic sanctions finally. Their currency is collapsing, (40% drop in value against the dollar this week!) the people are back on the streets confronting the stooges. The Mullahs and Ahmadinejad can't hold on for much longer here. Out of cards to play.
When they accept they have to capitulate regarding their nuclear program, the US will fast track the end of sanctions and Iran will start exporting oil again.
That will be a huge downward force on the price of oil and be very good for the world economy.
Yes, but will it happen before Election Day?
| 391 |
Kragar Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:53:36pm |
re: #380 SanFranciscoZionist
OK, discussion on TMZ. If you had to live for a year with the Kardashians or with the Honey Boo Boo people, who would you choose?
Me, I go Kardashian all the way. Food will be better.
Will TMZ pay all my legal fees, to include fines?
| 392 |
Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:53:37pm |
re: #384 Mich-again
Damnit, I wish Obama would stop appeasing Iran and their nuclear program! Wait...what? ////
| 393 |
Mich-again Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:53:41pm |
re: #341 Barflytom
The man has been a disaster for the country.
The Tea Party has been a disaster for the country. Didja notice even Mitt backtracking away from them. Good riddance to the biggest bunch of idiots ever to call themselves a political movement in the USA.
| 394 |
Gus Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:53:52pm |
re: #383 Charles Johnson
The troll is trying to provoke angry responses. It's what they do.
| 395 |
Interesting Times Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:54:05pm |
Romney won the debate because the president can't just say " you're a fucking liar!" It's up to us to prove that in the next few days.— BLOB(TM)OBAMA 2012 (@Blob_Fish) October 4, 2012
| 396 |
JamesWI Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:54:08pm |
Intrade calls it a draw. Obama began the night at 69, ends it at 69. Poor first half, but he caught up in the second. twitter.com/justinwolfers/…
— Justin Wolfers (@justinwolfers) October 4, 2012
| 397 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:54:21pm |
re: #369 SanFranciscoZionist
They're doing a foreign policy debate later this month, I think. Tonight was all domestic.
With nothing about abortion, science / evolution / agw, or gay rights. Thanks Lehrer.
| 398 |
calochortus Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:54:40pm |
re: #386 jaunte
Didn't you believe him when he told us how the private insurance companies would cover pre-existing conditions?
Oh yeah. I think everyone should enjoy the experience of shopping for individual health care insurance. We'd have single payer in a heartbeat if elected officials had to get their insurance that way.
| 399 |
engineer cat Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:54:43pm |
October 1, 2004
Kerry Wins Debate
GALLUP NEWS SERVICE
PRINCETON, NJ -- John Kerry won the debate Thursday night, 53% to 37%, according to a random sample of 615 registered voters who watched the event. Almost half of the viewers said they felt more favorable about the senator because of the debate, and 60% said Kerry expressed himself more clearly than did President Bush.
| 400 |
diamonda2u Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:55:02pm |
re: #388 Killgore Trout
Well, think about who the "undecideds" are at this point in the game. They're low information voters who are watching Honey Boo Boo reruns now. In the morning, they'll wake up, microwave some horrible shit, drink some instant coffee and listen to reports of Mitt doing surprisingly well on the radio on the way to their low paying jobs. This could have an effect.
It sounds like you are talking about a Fox News watcher (just ask low information voter Bristol Palin who today said she loved Honey Boo Boo)... they have made up their minds... they just don't say it :-)
| 401 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:55:26pm |
re: #397 goddamnedfrank
With nothing about abortion, science / evolution / agw, or gay rights. Thanks Lehrer.
When Lehrer told us at the beginning that he'd been responsible for choosing all the questions, I had a feeling of dread.
| 402 |
Kragar Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:55:39pm |
More importantly, Netflix is still down.
WTF guys?
| 403 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:55:46pm |
I wonder if Obama has been taking executive coaching from the same crowd that does coaching for CEO's and such?
Because tonight he seemed to bend over backwards to be non-confrontational, without barely raising his voice, his eyebrows, his hands, his anything.
re: #396 JamesWI
The big question discussed all over the net the past two days is whether these type of things mean much for the election results. I guess we'll find out.
| 404 |
Sophia77 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:55:59pm |
OK, that was awful. Mitt is a bully, he is a liar, and now I really hate him.
Everybody is complaining (MSNBC) about the President, but I thought Romney was inventing stuff, he started in on God, did anybody notice, which pissed me off, and he was lying repeatedly.
I don't think Romney won because he now looks mean on top of being a weather vane with no principles.
Just my opinion.
| 405 |
sagehen Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:56:05pm |
re: #380 SanFranciscoZionist
OK, discussion on TMZ. If you had to live for a year with the Kardashians or with the Honey Boo Boo people, who would you choose?
Me, I go Kardashian all the way. Food will be better.
And there's a swimming pool.
| 406 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:56:19pm |
This debate format also lost.
It doesn't allow for follow ups or actually debate. Just migrating from one random issue to another without any kind of specifics.
| 407 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:56:21pm |
re: #372 Reverend Mother Ramallo
I also got the impression that Obama doesn't like Mitt personally.
He shouldn't let it show.
Yeah, he does get that curled lip. "This? You sent THIS up against me?"
Needs to get that under control.
| 408 |
Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:56:28pm |
Wow, the flops sure were flipping tonight.
"I'm Mitt Romney and I categorically deny that anything I have said so far in this campaign is actually what I intend to do."
| 409 |
Obdicut Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:56:38pm |
| 410 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:56:53pm |
re: #378 HappyWarrior
No, that's the last one. This next one is the town hall which I think is a little of both. By the way most of the issues focused on tonight were rare ones that Mitt polls better or close to Obama in. Let's see how Mitt handles questions on issues that his positions on aren't as easy to bs with.
Wait, is it the veeps who do foreign policy then? I think someone's doing it.
| 411 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:56:55pm |
re: #402 Kragar
More importantly, Netflix is still down.
WTF guys?
Even more importantly: Has anyone ever found a Stronghold in Minecraft?
| 412 |
Barflytom Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:57:03pm |
re: #377 Tigger2
The real disaster for the country started with Reagan and continued by every Republican President that came after, the only time the country did good was under Clinton.
Hmmm, a quarter century of growth, winning the cold war ?
Would you have preferred thirty more years of Jimmy Carter ?
Clinton did ok after the republicans took congress in 1994, without that there would have been a disastrous implementation of Hillarycare or something equally bad.
| 413 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:57:09pm |
re: #401 Targetpractice
Notice that in not once instance did Lehrer ever refer to anything the candidates have previously argued? Or their online policy documents? Or actual laws, data, etc?
Tonight was all about feelings.
| 414 |
sagehen Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:57:15pm |
re: #384 Mich-again
The biggest story of the day (besides Miggy's triple crown of course) is that the Islamic Republic is folding under the weight of economic sanctions finally. Their currency is collapsing, (40% drop in value against the dollar this week!) the people are back on the streets confronting the stooges. The Mullahs and Ahmadinejad can't hold on for much longer here. Out of cards to play.
When they accept they have to capitulate regarding their nuclear program, the US will fast track the end of sanctions and Iran will start exporting oil again.
That will be a huge downward force on the price of oil and be very good for the world economy.
Let us pray that happens this month.
| 415 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:57:19pm |
re: #375 moderatelyradicalliberal
Thank you. Good Lord the hysteria.
Seriously. People are losing their goddamn minds.
Yes, it was boring. Yes, Obama could have done better. But to suggest that he got his clock cleaned by that lying asshole Romney is a joke. Obama's not going to throw grenades on stage. It's not his style, and if he ever tried it, he'd get painted as the Angry Black Man so fast your head would spin.
The only way Mitt won that is if you enjoy being lied to and you think that Obama should have Hulk Smashed the stage.
| 416 |
Altermite Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:57:21pm |
re: #403 freetoken
I wonder if Obama has been taking executive coaching from the same crowd that does coaching for CEO's and such?
Because tonight he seemed to bend over backwards to be non-confrontational, without barely raising his voice, his eyebrows, his hands, his anything.
The big question discussed all over the net the past two days is whether these type of things mean much for the election results. I guess we'll find out.
actually, his style was pretty much exactly what my moot court handbook said to do, especially when starting. Present your case, and keep your upperbody pretty much still. Speak slowly and distinctly.
| 417 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:57:26pm |
| 418 |
Kragar Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:57:29pm |
re: #409 Sheeplord
Not for me.
Netflix Site Error
We were unable to process your request.
Please go to the Netflix home page by clicking the button below.
Been that way for the last hour
| 419 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:57:41pm |
re: #406 Varek Raith
This debate format also lost.
It doesn't allow for follow ups or actually debate. Just migrating from one random issue to another without any kind of specifics.
Thought it pretty obvious the format was a wash when Mitt kept jumping down Lehrer's throat and Lehrer let him get away with it.
| 421 |
engineer cat Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:58:11pm |
In the judgment of most of the press, Fritz won the first debate handily, a judgment with which I naturally concurred. The second was generally regarded as a tie.
| 422 |
nines09 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:58:12pm |
Mitt scored higher with undecided voters who never heard Romney talk before. He also did well with people who hear only what they want to hear.
| 423 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:58:15pm |
re: #410 SanFranciscoZionist
Wait, is it the veeps who do foreign policy then? I think someone's doing it.
Final debate between Obama and Romney is foreign policy themed.
| 424 |
prairiefire Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:58:17pm |
re: #411 Killgore Trout
I can ask my girl for you. They are nuts about that at our house.
| 426 |
diamonda2u Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:58:19pm |
re: #408 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You
Wow, the flops sure were flipping tonight.
"I'm Mitt Romney and I categorically deny that anything I have said so far in this campaign is actually what I intend to do."
The DNC and pac should have commercials up tonight before the news tomorrow...with Debate Mitt, vs campaign traillMitt... oh too cool
| 427 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:58:33pm |
re: #415 Lidane
The only way Mitt won that is if you enjoy being lied to and you think that Obama should have Hulk Smashed the stage.
Not Hulk Smash. Lightsaber. I wanted to see some lightsaber action.
He can do it when he cares to.
| 428 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:58:55pm |
re: #406 Varek Raith
This debate format also lost.
It doesn't allow for follow ups or actually debate. Just migrating from one random issue to another without any kind of specifics.
There was so much damn hype and nothing was memorable about it nothing at all.
The pundits will go on and on for a few days because they wanted the R-Money "comeback" story, but there wasn't anything new or significant tonight. It was no game changer either way. I know I'm biased, but the chicken little hysteria has got to stop.
| 429 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:58:56pm |
| 430 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:58:57pm |
re: #411 Killgore Trout
Even more importantly: Has anyone ever found a Stronghold in Minecraft?
The Minecraft Wiki should help. Part of the plan, AFAIK, involves using Ender Pearls.
| 431 |
Interesting Times Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:59:03pm |
Something to think about:
I can understand people wanted a BOMBASTIC Obama....but that wasn't the PLAN...Obama does that in SWING STATE BUS TOURS & ADS— Jeff Gauvin (@JeffersonObama) October 4, 2012
| 432 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:59:06pm |
This is how low expectations work, Romney lies non-stop but manages not to physically shit his pants on live TV, so he wins because Obama doesn't actually walk on water.
| 433 |
spiderx Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:59:06pm |
Mitt Romney lost the debate because of his $716 billion medicare lie.
| 434 |
diamonda2u Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:59:07pm |
re: #422 nines09
Mitt scored higher with undecided voters who never heard Romney talk before. He also did well with people who hear only what they want to hear.
I have to agree.
| 435 |
Tigger2 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:59:11pm |
re: #412 Barflytom
Hmmm, a quarter century of growth, winning the cold war ?
Would you have preferred thirty more years of Jimmy Carter ?
Clinton did ok after the republicans took congress in 1994, without that there would have been a disastrous implementation of Hillarycare or something equally bad.
Reagan didn't win the cold war that's a right wing myth, what brought Russia down was their economy.
| 436 |
danarchy Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:00:04pm |
re: #410 SanFranciscoZionist
Wait, is it the veeps who do foreign policy then? I think someone's doing it.
there are two more presidential debates and on vp.
the veeps will do both foreign and domestic. the 2 remaining presidential ones are foreign policy and then a town hall style on both foreign and domestic.
| 437 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:00:24pm |
re: #435 Tigger2
Reagan didn't win the cold war that's a right wing myth, what brought Russia down was their economy.
And their stupid invasion of Afghanistan.
| 438 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:00:30pm |
re: #431 Interesting Times
Something to think about:
[Embedded content]
True enough, we wanted a confrontational Obama but that's not his style. Again, my guess is there was fear he'd come off as "defensive" or "aggressive" if he tried to fire back.
| 439 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:00:35pm |
re: #416 Altermite
actually, his style was pretty much exactly what my moot court handbook said to do, ...
The court of public opinion is not moot.
| 440 |
Mich-again Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:00:38pm |
re: #390 Targetpractice
Yes, but will it happen before Election Day?
Not all of it.. But enough to see that sanctions worked and that all the chickenhawks who were clamoring for another war were wrong.
| 441 |
SpaceJesus Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:00:44pm |
re: #433 spiderx
Mitt Romney lost the debate because of his $716 billion medicare lie.
I wish I lived in a country where this happens
| 442 |
aagcobb Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:01:14pm |
re: #433 spiderx
Mitt Romney lost the debate because of his $716 billion medicare lie.
Obama could've also pointed out that Obamacare means Hospital ERs won't have to give away billions of dollars of free care to indigents anymore, so they can afford lower rates for medicare patients.
| 443 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:01:14pm |
re: #440 Mich-again
Not all of it.. But enough to see that sanctions worked and that all the chickenhawks who were clamoring for another war were wrong.
Unless the Mullahs get dragged out into the streets for the world to see before Election Day, I'm not sure that anybody's gonna notice.
| 444 |
Altermite Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:01:25pm |
re: #439 freetoken
The court of public opinion is not moot.
absolutely. moot court is really boring to watch.
| 445 |
engineer cat Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:01:28pm |
re: #412 Barflytom
Hmmm, a quarter century of growth, winning the cold war ?
Would you have preferred thirty more years of Jimmy Carter ?
Clinton did ok after the republicans took congress in 1994, without that there would have been a disastrous implementation of Hillarycare or something equally bad.
generally, a connected logical argument or at least some facts are more effective than rambling
| 446 |
jaunte Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:01:31pm |
Betfair had Obama dropping from an ~80% favorite before the debate to a ~74% favorite afterward. sports.betfair.com/?rfr=63&mi=213…
— Nate Silver (@fivethirtyeight) October 4, 2012
| 447 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:02:00pm |
re: #412 Barflytom
Would you have preferred thirty more years of Jimmy Carter ?
I don't think that was...Constitutionally possible.
| 448 |
nines09 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:02:11pm |
Mitt wants to put people to work. They just have to get to China to do it.
| 449 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:02:21pm |
Tomorrow we start out for Florida for four days of GOTV. Seems only a bit more important than it did a couple hours ago.
| 450 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:02:25pm |
| 451 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:02:53pm |
re: #441 SpaceJesus
I wish I lived in a country where this happens
Instead, you live in a country where half the population believes the world was created 6000 years ago, where the average reading level is lower than the language used by Obama (and even Romney) tonight, and where the top forms of visual entertainment is watching some rug rat brat and her dysfunctional family.
| 452 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:03:19pm |
re: #451 freetoken
Instead, you live in a country where half the population believes the world was created 6000 years ago, where the average reading level is lower than the language used by Obama (and even Romney) tonight, and where the top forms of visual entertainment is watching some rug rat brat and her dysfunctional family.
FUCK YEAH!
Wait...
| 453 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:03:23pm |
re: #451 freetoken
Instead, you live in a country where half the population believes the world was created 6000 years ago, where the average reading level is lower than the language used by Obama (and even Romney) tonight, and where the top forms of visual entertainment is watching some rug rat brat and her dysfunctional family.
Screw it, I'm moving to Dublin ;).
| 454 |
alpuz Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:03:24pm |
re: #397 goddamnedfrank
Exactly, what was 'domestic' about this debate?
| 455 |
Mich-again Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:03:43pm |
First round flurries do not a champion make. Ask Tommy Hearns or
Joe Frazier.
| 456 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:04:04pm |
re: #454 alpuz
Exactly, what was 'domestic' about this debate?
It looked like an old married couple having a domestic dispute?
//
| 457 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:04:10pm |
re: #455 Mich-again
First round flurries do not a champion make. Ask Tommy Hearns or George Frazier.
Or the 2004 Yankees.
| 458 |
aagcobb Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:04:16pm |
re: #446 jaunte
[Embedded content]
Nate had Romney's chances of winning back down below 14% today. In a few days, we'll see if this debate has made any significant improvement in his chances. I'm sure he will improve somewhat in the polls, but debates don't usually cause dramatic changes.
| 459 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:04:16pm |
re: #415 Lidane
Seriously. People are losing their goddamn minds.
Yes, it was boring. Yes, Obama could have done better. But to suggest that he got his clock cleaned by that lying asshole Romney is a joke. Obama's not going to throw grenades on stage. It's not his style, and if he ever tried it, he'd get painted as the Angry Black Man so fast your head would spin.
The only way Mitt won that is if you enjoy being lied to and you think that Obama should have Hulk Smashed the stage.
A voice of sanity. This is how things always go. The left panics because the Democrat didn't give soaring rhetoric and the idiot Republican is declared the winner because he didn't shit his pants.
Please stop. Obama "lost" damn near every debate back in 2007-2008 and yet still won because regular people saw something different from he partisans. In the next few days Obama will be up with ads with Romney saying the opposite of everything he said in the debates tonight.
| 460 |
Tigger2 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:04:19pm |
re: #437 HappyWarrior
And their stupid invasion of Afghanistan.
Yeah that really brought their economy down just like Iraq and Afghanistan has helped do it to ours.
| 461 |
danarchy Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:04:31pm |
re: #454 alpuz
Exactly, what was 'domestic' about this debate?
what could be more domestic than the economy?
| 462 |
The Ghost of a Flea Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:05:01pm |
re: #438 Targetpractice
True enough, we wanted a confrontational Obama but that's not his style. Again, my guess is there was fear he'd come off as "defensive" or "aggressive" if he tried to fire back.
It's hard to debate an outright, glib liar. It takes too long to counter the lie and explain why it's a lie, which diminishes rhetorical force, and, since you're dealing with a liar, it opens up the option for the liar to portray themselves as wronged...which again creates a "they say a few strong words, you have to explain with many words" uphill battle.
| 463 |
engineer cat Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:05:06pm |
re: #435 Tigger2
Reagan didn't win the cold war that's a right wing myth, what brought Russia down was their economy.
i always like the way republicans reason: communism was a miserable failure, but it would have continued to be successful but for reagan
if any republicans care to take a swing at it, perhaps they could explain what it was that reagan did - exactly - that "brought down communism"
usually, if there is any answer to this, it involves blowing out our deficit by massive increases in weapons we didn't need
| 464 |
Altermite Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:05:08pm |
| 465 |
Talking Point Detective Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:05:10pm |
re: #365 Sheeplord
I love how it's quickly moving from "was a little lackluster" to "Got his clock cleaned".
I think that Obama is a very nice guy (even though he's a socialist empty suit), and Romney can at times be a bit annoying (even though he's made of fire-tested steel and has brilliant ideas), but I'm shocked, shocked I say, at how completely Obama lost this debate.
| 467 |
Mr. Crankypants Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:05:47pm |
re: #426 diamonda2u
The DNC and pac should have commercials up tonight before the news tomorrow...with Debate Mitt, vs campaign traillMitt... oh too cool
That may very well have been the whole idea. I noticed that Mitt took the "I'll do this, but don't ask me how approach"
| 468 |
Talking Point Detective Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:05:58pm |
re: #459 moderatelyradicalliberal
A voice of sanity. This is how things always go. The left panics because the Democrat didn't give soaring rhetoric and the idiot Republican is declared the winner because he didn't shit his pants.
Please stop. Obama "lost" damn near every debate back in 2007-2008 and yet still won because regular people saw something different from he partisans. In the next few days Obama will be up with ads with Romney saying the opposite of everything he said in the debates tonight.
Exactly.
| 469 |
Varek Raith Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:05:58pm |
re: #465 Talking Point Detective
I think that Obama is a very nice guy (even though he's a socialist empty suit), and Romney can at times be a bit annoying (even though he's made of fire-tested steel and has brilliant ideas), but I'm shocked, shocked I say, at how completely Obama lost this debate.
I like your style.
:P
| 470 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:06:14pm |
re: #460 Tigger2
Yeah that really brought their economy down just like Iraq and Afghanistan has helped do it to ours.
But it was all Reagan. // Really, I'm fine with giving Reagan some credit but to suggest he alone won it does a disservice to his predecessors Democratic and Republican alike. Not to mention the desire for freedom in the Eastern Bloc. But hey Reagan did everything right and nothing wrong.//
| 471 |
Reverend Mother Ramallo Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:06:18pm |
re: #406 Varek Raith
This debate format also lost.
It doesn't allow for follow ups or actually debate. Just migrating from one random issue to another without any kind of specifics.
Couldn't put my finger on it, but that is exactly what was bothering me.
| 472 |
Targetpractice Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:06:19pm |
Curious if voters will see this as the knock-out performance that Willard needed to retake the momentum in this election. I don't think so, but I've been wrong before.
| 473 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:06:21pm |
Tonight I learned that Mitt Romney doesn't trust his own sons to tell the truth.
| 475 |
Talking Point Detective Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:06:59pm |
re: #415 Lidane
Seriously. People are losing their goddamn minds.
Yes, it was boring. Yes, Obama could have done better. But to suggest that he got his clock cleaned by that lying asshole Romney is a joke. Obama's not going to throw grenades on stage. It's not his style, and if he ever tried it, he'd get painted as the Angry Black Man so fast your head would spin.
The only way Mitt won that is if you enjoy being lied to and you think that Obama should have Hulk Smashed the stage.
Exactly II.
| 476 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:07:03pm |
re: #473 Charles Johnson
Tonight I learned that Mitt Romney doesn't trust his own sons to tell the truth.
That was so weird especially considering all five of them are all grown up with families of their own.
| 477 |
Pawn of the Oppressor Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:07:40pm |
re: #473 Charles Johnson
Tonight I learned that Mitt Romney doesn't trust his own sons to tell the truth.
Well, look who they have for an example...
| 478 |
JamesWI Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:07:52pm |
Also, an interesting theory I'm seeing on Twitter.
Romney won the debate, but he also put himself on camera, directly contradicting things he said on camera throughout the campaign. Which sets him up for some really nice campaign ads, showing him talking out of both sides of his ass
In the end, more people will probably see campaign ads than watched the debates. And, in what may be a sad commentary on our society, those little 30 second ads probably will have more impact than all these debates.
| 479 |
calochortus Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:08:17pm |
re: #463 engineer cat
i always like the way republicans reason: communism was a miserable failure, but it would have continued to be successful but for reagan
if any republicans care to take a swing at it, perhaps they could explain what it was that reagan did - exactly - that "brought down communism"
usually, if there is any answer to this, it involves blowing out our deficit by massive increases in weapons we didn't need
There is probably some truth to the idea that if we were threatening to destroy our own economy with military spending, and the Soviets were dumb enough to get into competition with us on the issue, that we did contribute to their collapse. Our economy was strong enough to take it. Theirs wasn't. Probably not the best way to bring down the Soviets, and they would have gone eventually, but we probably hastened their demise.
| 480 |
jaunte Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:08:20pm |
re: #477 Pawn of the Oppressor
"The world is what you pretend to make it."
| 481 |
SpaceJesus Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:08:22pm |
The people who are saying Obama got crushed or that he fell apart are the same people who still think the Drudge video is a bombshell.
Romney won by a slim margin, but it was not a memorable win. Romney created some new vocabulary for the race out of it, but other than that, this was not the convincing win he needed.
| 482 |
engineer cat Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:08:50pm |
predictions are dangerous and i don't generally make them, but i tend to think that all these republicans who are giddy right at this moment will be disappointed to see that the poll numbers will be little changed a week from now
| 483 |
Barflytom Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:09:29pm |
re: #447 SanFranciscoZionist
I don't think that was...Constitutionally possible.
Funnily enough, I was aware of that, which might be a surprise to you since I'm an illiterate, knuckle dragging right wing neanderthal.
I didn't mean it "literally", as Mr Biden might say.
| 484 |
makeitstop Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:09:38pm |
Okay. I had to turn it off when Giuliani showed up.
Romney lied, Obama didn't do his best. Cool. On to the next one.
Let the wingnuts crow. They're too stupid to realize that Romney disavowed everything he's been promising them for better than a year.
| 485 |
Destro Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:10:12pm |
Who won? Depends on what you think about the American voter/viewer.
If you think that Joe six-pack knows jack shit about wonky policy and votes based on who looks and sounds like a Hollywood movie version of a president then Romney won.
If you know some policy stuff you think Romney was full of sound bite BS but Obama was not confrontational and somewhat right on policy but also embracing centrist pro Republican policies, etc. and Obama did not lose but he did not bury Romney.
What I think? I tend to think Americans respond to gotcha moments - I am a cynic - and I saw no gotcha moments that can be looped over and over against either candidate.
| 486 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:10:20pm |
re: #478 JamesWI
Also, an interesting theory I'm seeing on Twitter.
Romney won the debate, but he also put himself on camera, directly contradicting things he said on camera throughout the campaign. Which sets him up for some really nice campaign ads, showing him talking out of both sides of his ass
In the end, more people will probably see campaign ads than watched the debates. And, in what may be a sad commentary on our society, those little 30 second ads probably will have more impact than all these debates.
This. Any low information voter who think they saw the "real" Romney tonight will be getting hit with ads saying the contrary. He's still the same old dishonest flip-flopper he ever was. Those ads will be up by Friday and any nominal boost he got will be crushed.
| 487 |
engineer cat Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:10:29pm |
re: #479 calochortus
There is probably some truth to the idea that if we were threatening to destroy our own economy with military spending, and the Soviets were dumb enough to get into competition with us on the issue, that we did contribute to their collapse. Our economy was strong enough to take it. Theirs wasn't. Probably not the best way to bring down the Soviets, and they would have gone eventually, but we probably hastened their demise.
gorbachev said that the giant increase in military spending caused the soviet union to fall maybe two years sooner that it would have without it
but we're still paying interest on the billions that reagan borrowed to pay for it
| 488 |
diamonda2u Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:10:36pm |
re: #478 JamesWI
Also, an interesting theory I'm seeing on Twitter.
Romney won the debate, but he also put himself on camera, directly contradicting things he said on camera throughout the campaign. Which sets him up for some really nice campaign ads, showing him talking out of both sides of his ass
In the end, more people will probably see campaign ads than watched the debates. And, in what may be a sad commentary on our society, those little 30 second ads probably will have more impact than all these debates.
That's my take also on this. Maybe O' being his normal boring non-confrontational self wasn't such a bad thing in the end, cause Romney lies so dang much, the commercials could make a full length movie.
| 489 |
jaunte Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:10:38pm |
I'm really disappointed neither candidate chose to mention our plot to take over the West #debates #creepingshariah
— Haroon Moghul (@hsmoghul) October 4, 2012
| 490 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:11:26pm |
re: #478 JamesWI
Also, an interesting theory I'm seeing on Twitter.
Romney won the debate, but he also put himself on camera, directly contradicting things he said on camera throughout the campaign. Which sets him up for some really nice campaign ads, showing him talking out of both sides of his ass
In the end, more people will probably see campaign ads than watched the debates. And, in what may be a sad commentary on our society, those little 30 second ads probably will have more impact than all these debates.
That sounds right. The debates are important sure but the ad wars I think are more so.
| 491 |
calochortus Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:11:34pm |
re: #487 engineer cat
gorbachev said that the giant increase in military spending caused the soviet union to fall maybe two years sooner that it would have without it
but we're still paying interest on the billions that reagan borrowed to pay for it
Like I say, not the best way to take out the Soviets...
| 492 |
Reverend Mother Ramallo Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:11:43pm |
People will only remember the ads and the last debate they watch.
This is just the pre-season.
Also, Rudy G. is a dick.
| 493 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:12:28pm |
re: #487 engineer cat
gorbachev said that the giant increase in military spending caused the soviet union to fall maybe two years sooner that it would have without it
but we're still paying interest on the billions that reagan borrowed to pay for it
Yeah and that means Reagan wasn't Mr. Fiscally Responsible that his worshipers make him out to be.
| 494 |
Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:12:40pm |
re: #476 HappyWarrior
That was so weird especially considering all five of them are all grown
upwith families of their own.
| 495 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:12:42pm |
re: #492 Reverend Mother Ramallo
People will only remember the ads and the last debate they watch.
This is just the pre-season.Also, Rudy G. is a dick.
All of his ex-wives agree with you. What is is with Republicans and trice married cheaters?
| 496 |
calochortus Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:12:49pm |
| 497 |
Interesting Times Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:12:57pm |
Hmmm...
United States Trends
#debate2012
#2012debate
#BigBird
#MommyBearMedia
#MiddleSchoolMemories
PBS
Jim Lehrer
Triple Crown
POTUS
Sesame Street
| 498 |
Destro Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:13:01pm |
re: #486 moderatelyradicalliberal
This. Any low information voter who think they saw the "real" Romney tonight will be getting hit with ads saying the contrary. He's still the same old dishonest flip-flopper he ever was. Those ads will be up by Friday and any nominal boost he got will be crushed.
I did not thing about that. I also think the only thing that comes from debates that helps a candidate is a gotcha moment that can get looped into a negative commercial.
| 499 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:14:10pm |
re: #463 engineer cat
i always like the way republicans reason: communism was a miserable failure, but it would have continued to be successful but for reagan
if any republicans care to take a swing at it, perhaps they could explain what it was that reagan did - exactly - that "brought down communism"
usually, if there is any answer to this, it involves blowing out our deficit by massive increases in weapons we didn't need
The only weapon program that scared the Russians was the B-2. Carter's B-2. Because it negated their entire AD system and they could not afford to replace it with radars that could see the B-2. B-52s & B-1s were no real problem but the B-2 could have gotten to the target undetected. That was when Gorby started playing up to the Cowboy to hold down those costs. Now not doing that didn't do enough in the end, their economy was too broken to survive anyway but the fear of those costs made them have to do something.
Of course Reagan was gutting our economy so we only ended up with a handful of B-2's instead of the hundreds we needed but hey he's still St. Ronnie of the Ray-Gun... Feh.
| 500 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:14:16pm |
Sesame Street could be Mitt's chair moment. Really, what a courageous deficit hawk he is cutting PBS.//
| 501 |
Lidane Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:14:24pm |
Goodnight stars, goodnight air. Goodnight quarterbacks in their armchairs.— delrayser (@delrayser) October 4, 2012
| 502 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:16:08pm |
re: #485 Destro
Who won? Depends on what you think about the American voter/viewer.
If you think that Joe six-pack knows jack shit about wonky policy and votes based on who looks and sounds like a Hollywood movie version of a president then Romney won.
If you know some policy stuff you think Romney was full of sound bite BS but Obama was not confrontational and somewhat right on policy but also embracing centrist pro Republican policies, etc.
What I think? I tend to think Americans respond to gotcha moments - I am a cynic - and I saw no gotcha moments that can be looped over and over against either candidate.
My cynicism is why I can't by into the Romney wins hype. There were no memorable lines or policy statements from him. People say he looked presidential while he lied through his teeth, but guess what? He's still the asshole on the 47% video. That's him with no preparation or debate coach. And people aren't going to forget it. Nothing he said or lied about tonight erases that damage.
| 503 |
freetoken Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:16:18pm |
re: #500 HappyWarrior
Given that Big Bird is a notorious commie sympathizer, Mitt proved his trueness to the JBS.
| 504 |
Tigger2 Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:18:52pm |
re: #492 Reverend Mother Ramallo
People will only remember the ads and the last debate they watch.
This is just the pre-season.Also, Rudy G. is a dick.
Noun, verb and 9/11 Giuliani is just another rich I have mine fuck the rest of you asshole.
| 505 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:24:16pm |
re: #483 Barflytom
Funnily enough, I was aware of that, which might be a surprise to you since I'm an illiterate, knuckle dragging right wing neanderthal.
I didn't mean it "literally", as Mr Biden might say.
Gosh, I just figured since you're obviously a knuckle-dragger you must've meant it literally. Next you'll be telling me you've got indoor plumbing or something.
| 506 |
Barflytom Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:26:55pm |
re: #463 engineer cat
i always like the way republicans reason: communism was a miserable failure, but it would have continued to be successful but for reagan
if any republicans care to take a swing at it, perhaps they could explain what it was that reagan did - exactly - that "brought down communism"
usually, if there is any answer to this, it involves blowing out our deficit by massive increases in weapons we didn't need
Look at how many countries fell to some sort of communist domination before 1980, and how many broke free after. A totalitarian system can keep going for a very long time, however much it impoverishes its own people. North Korea for example.
Reagan helped drive the soviets to bankruptcy with a military build up, and by pressing the Saudis to pump more oil and depress the price of the main export commodity the Russians had.
Do you really think that if, say, Ted Kennedy had been president (the guy who had back channel discussions with the kremlin by the way) there would have been any pressure on the soviets to reform ?
North Korea has outlived the soviet union by two decades, with far fewer resources. Castro, or his brother, is still in power. If a government is ruthless enough, it can stay in power long past the point of being economically viable.
Do you think Jimmy Carter and Neil Kinnock would have brought about the downfall of the soviet union ?
| 507 |
prairiefire Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:27:36pm |
re: #441 SpaceJesus
I wish I lived in a country where this happens
Me, too, but that ain't the reality.
| 508 |
engineer cat Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:31:17pm |
re: #506 Barflytom
you've lost the right to debate with me
| 509 |
Barflytom Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:40:40pm |
re: #508 engineer cat
you've lost the right to debate with me
I'll try to keep myself from committing suicide.
Can I still cling to guns and religion ? Only if that's ok with you, of course.
| 510 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:19:03pm |
Disgruntled troll trying to provoke negative reactions. Don't fall for it.
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