Presidential Debate 2012, Round One, the Wrap-Up

Politics • Views: 32,275

Here’s another thread to continue the wrap-up discussion of tonight’s debate. One of the most interesting moments for me: learning that Mitt Romney doesn’t trust his own sons to tell the truth.

Romney: “Look, I got five BOYS. I’m used to people saying something that’s not always true, but just keep repeating it.”

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954 comments
1 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:11:59pm
2 Mocking Jay  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:13:01pm

re: #1 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Mostly true? Didn't Romney admit it on stage tonight? That's something I swear I heard...

3 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:13:28pm

Romney may have been talking about his sons, but he could have just as well have been talking about himself.

4 Alexzander  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:13:47pm

Watched the debate in a small local bar in Pittsburgh. It was clear even amongst the Obama supporters that this was a strong night for Romney.

5 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:14:10pm

Looking at more post debate coverage. Looks like Obama lost.

6 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:14:13pm

They supposedly say of chefs: You're only as good as your last dish.

7 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:14:22pm

Yeah, that always sound like "kinda true."

8 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:15:25pm

i'm trying to remember if democrats were so giddy when kerry was declared the winner of the debate with bush

9 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:16:00pm

In other words, the "ROMNEY KILLED HIM!!!" line we'll be getting from the media for the next few days will be bullshit.

It's a wash.

10 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:16:12pm

re: #8 engineer cat

i'm trying to remember if democrats were so giddy when kerry was declared the winner of the debate with bush

I was but I see now that it meant shit little in the grand scheme of things.

11 Alexzander  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:16:56pm

re: #5 Killgore Trout

Looking at more post debate coverage. Looks like Obama lost.

I didn't need any post-debate spin to tell me that Romney won this one. As an Obama supporter (in general) I'm extremely impressed with Romney's performance.

12 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:17:05pm

I don't agree that "Obama lost." I saw a complete wash, that's not going to convince anyone who isn't already convinced.

13 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:18:05pm

The odds of a ten year old boy lying if you ask him if he brushed his teeth are something like 2 out of 3.

I assume duplicity, and do the fingernail test.

They'll thank me later. Right now I don't get a happy reaction.

14 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:18:27pm

Romney definitely established that the details of his economic plan are unknown or changeable.

15 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:18:40pm

I think Obama laid a tremendous trap for Romney. He basically had Romney on stage doubling down on not only the same lies, but also contradicting everything he's said in the last 6 months. The ads about how Romney doesn't even believe what he says himself write themselves.

16 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:18:49pm
17 Mocking Jay  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:19:41pm

If Obama loses...

[Link: a-picture-perfect-world.tumblr.com...]

18 Alexzander  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:19:42pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

I don't agree that "Obama lost." I saw a complete wash, that's not going to convince anyone who isn't already convinced.

I think the expectations for Romney were extremely low. His campaign has been a mess and for the most part he has been a horrible speaker. His presentation tonight was extremely confident and (perhaps dubiously or manipulatively) supported with a huge number of memorized figures and stats.

19 diamonda2u  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:20:17pm

re: #15 Mr. Crankypants

I think Obama laid a tremendous trap for Romney. He basically had Romney on stage doubling down on not only the same lies, but also contradicting everything he's said in the last 6 months. The ads about how Romney doesn't even believe what he says himself write themselves.

And if he didn't do it intentionally, I hope the ad folks are reading this and get too it...

20 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:20:38pm

Looks like Sully is in full panic mode:

21 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:20:47pm

What I saw tonight was a Willard that seemed to be on a caffeine drip and quick with the lies, but also one who:

- Declared he's not gonna cut taxes
- Likes SS as it is
- Gave Romneycare a big ol' bear hug
- Loves regulations
- And wants even more teachers hired

So yeah, he "won" on style points, but he just gave the Obama campaign a boatload of ammunition.

22 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:21:05pm

re: #5 Killgore Trout

Looking at more post debate coverage. Looks like Obama lost.

All of the post debate coverage declared John McCain the winner of the first debate too. It was a lackluster debate and a wash.

23 Majacita  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:21:52pm

I think Obama sounded a little tired. Having a real job while running a campaign can be a disadvantage. I can't wait to see the flipflop ads though.

24 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:22:17pm

re: #20 Lidane

Looks like Sully is in full panic mode:

[Embedded content]

Sully is a drama queen. He always does this. Always. He's going to end up back on blogs to be monitored and mocked list at Balloon Juice if he isn't careful.

25 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:22:20pm

Al Sharpton: "Romney gave great testimony, but he'd be indicted for perjury."

26 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:22:40pm

re: #21 Targetpractice

What I saw tonight was a Willard that seemed to be on a caffeine drip and quick with the lies, but also one who:

- Declared he's not gonna cut taxes
- Likes SS as it is
- Gave Romneycare a big ol' bear hug
- Loves regulations
- And wants even more teachers hired

So yeah, he "won" on style points, but he just gave the Obama campaign a boatload of ammunition.

EXACTLY.

He "won" because he managed to get through an hour on stage without shitting himself, but at the same time, he turned his back on everything he's been running on for the last yaer and on some major parts of the GOP platform.

If Team Obama are smart, they're cutting ads as we sit here and write this.

27 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:23:01pm

re: #22 moderatelyradicalliberal

All of the post debate coverage declared John McCain the winner of the first debate too. It was a lackluster debate and a wash.

Yep. We've seen this before. Not a good idea to read too much into it.

28 diamonda2u  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:23:02pm

re: #22 moderatelyradicalliberal

All of the post debate coverage declared John McCain the winner of the first debate too. It was a lackluster debate and a wash.

President McCain? Oh yeah...

29 Destro  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:23:09pm

Obama makes me have the same reaction in this debate that he has for the last 4 years.

Obama just does not take it to the Republican and tell them the position of the Republican is BS, wrong, a lie, foolish.

I am not a politician and maybe politicians think confrontation is bad PR but Clinton took apart the Republicans with humor not anger.

Obama did not loose the debate nor did he win the debate because while his policy positions as stated in the debate were honest he did not call out Romney/Republicans on their BS.

I don't get why Obama let the Congressional Republicans and Tea Party get away with their BS and I don't know why Obama let Romney get away with it.

I did not want Obama to be angry black man up there (and we know how that would play in latent racist America) but he could have done it with humor.

But then again, maybe Obama's ninja power is to be cool. Maybe the thing we can't quantify about Obama's popularity is that Americans in a crazy time want a unflappable Mr. Cool at the helm even if they don't like him.

30 philosophus invidius  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:23:53pm

Did it seem to anyone else that Lehrer gave Romney the last word on virtually EVERY exchange?

Obama was greatly disadvantaged by wanting to preserve his "likeability" at all costs and hence in not stepping on Lehrer's toes.

I don't think he had the temperament to run a debate like that.

31 aagcobb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:24:04pm

Now if you want to talk about people who really won, congratulations to Miguel Cabrera for being the first triple crown winner since '67, the A's for beating the Rangers and winning the AL West, and the (gag) Yankees.

32 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:24:18pm
33 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:24:39pm
34 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:24:42pm

Raising an observation I mentioned a few days ago, around here (San Diego area) what has been striking is the absence of "heat" (metaphorically, not physically as it's been santa ana weather of late) over the election in just one month.

Where are the signs? Where are the people out in the public places with placards or stickers or anything?

It's all very quiet, as if nobody cares.

35 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:24:48pm

re: #30 philosophus invidius

Did it seem to anyone else that Lehrer gave Romney the last word on virtually EVERY exchange?

Obama was greatly disadvantaged by wanting to preserve his "likeability" at all costs and hence in not stepping on Lehrer's toes.

I don't think he had the temperament to run a debate like that.

Romney won the coin flip allowing him to always go last.

36 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:24:49pm

I have two incredible sons, both in college on free ride scholarships for academics, both of them are hard working and respectful and both are better persons than either of their mom or me. I can't even imagine going in front of the world and calling them liars. WTF?

37 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:24:59pm

re: #30 philosophus invidius

Did it seem to anyone else that Lehrer gave Romney the last word on virtually EVERY exchange?

Obama was greatly disadvantaged by wanting to preserve his "likeability" at all costs and hence in not stepping on Lehrer's toes.

I don't think he had the temperament to run a debate like that.

What I saw was Willard not even waiting for Obama to finish before stomping all over Lehrer to offer his "rebuttals."

38 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:25:01pm

Lehrer really screwed the pooch as a moderator though. He should have shut down Romney, as he continued to demand the last word on every topic. Mitt essentially filibustered his way through the entire debate. Obama on the other hand was cool collected and I liked the way he spoke directly to the camera.

39 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:25:10pm
40 Tigger2  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:25:19pm

re: #5 Killgore Trout

Looking at more post debate coverage. Looks like Obama lost.

I could win a debate against either one of them if I could say anything I want to without worrying about not having facts on my side. lol

41 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:25:35pm

re: #36 Mich-again

I have two incredible sons, both in college on free ride scholarships for academics, both of them are hard working and respectful and both are better persons than either of their mom or me. I can't even imagine going in front of the world and calling them liars. WTF?

He uses people as needed.

42 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:26:08pm

re: #11 Alexzander

I didn't need any post-debate spin to tell me that Romney won this one. As an Obama supporter (in general) I'm extremely impressed with Romney's performance.

By performance do you mean he's great liar?

43 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:26:11pm

A leg was left untingled tonight....
"Where Was Obama Tonight...What Was He Doing"
[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]

44 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:26:40pm

re: #38 Mr. Crankypants

Lehrer really screwed the pooch as a moderator though. He should have shut down Romney, as he continued to demand the last word on every topic. Mitt essentially filibustered his way through the entire debate. Obama on the other hand was cool collected and I liked the way he spoke directly to the camera.

I noticed that Lehrer would do nothing to shut Willard down every time he jumped up to offer a "rebuttal," but kept getting on Obama's case for going over time.

45 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:26:43pm

re: #31 aagcobb

Now if you want to talk about people who really won, congratulations to Miguel Cabrera for being the first triple crown winner since '67, the A's for beating the Rangers and winning the AL West, and the (gag) Yankees.

First time I've ever seen one in my lifetime. Glad the O's are getting the Rangers though I wanted that game in Baltimore for the Wild Card.

46 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:27:22pm

An untingled leg is the saddest leg of all.

47 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:27:35pm

re: #39 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Right the MSM was already ready with the R-Money comeback story as long as he didn't trip over his dick or make any 47% gaffs.

48 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:27:45pm

Odd how Republican hate Hollywood and actors in general but they lap it up when their favorite politician puts on a Oscar worthy performance.

49 Alexzander  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:27:51pm

re: #42 moderatelyradicalliberal

By performance do you mean he's great liar?

These debates and American politics in general are unfortunately not about reality. It's a fucked up sport and Romney won this round. Romney crafted his presentation better. Simple as that.

50 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:28:53pm

I saw somewhere, that Obama is very unhappy with the way Romney has allowed the right to mischaracterize him so much. As I said before, the prez. looked tired and annoyed. I'm sure he's a bit tired of the BS.
His only blunder was perhaps, letting is show.

51 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:28:57pm

re: #49 Alexzander

These debates and American politics in general are unfortunately not about reality. It's a fucked up sport and Romney won this round. Romney crafted his presentation better. Simple as that.

That's because Willard came in carrying a secret weapon: The ability to jettison every single one of the things he's been running on for months in order to avoid defending any of them.

52 alpuz  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:28:57pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

Lame.

53 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:28:59pm

Crap developing on the Syrian border. Emergency NATO meeting in Brussels.

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

54 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:29:20pm

re: #49 Alexzander

These debates and American politics in general are unfortunately not about reality. It's a fucked up sport and Romney won this round. Romney crafted his presentation better. Simple as that.

Well it's a good thing debates haven't determined a wining president since 2004. Kerry and John McCain were both declared winners of their debates. So either debates don't matter or the public sees something partisans and the MSM don't.

55 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:29:26pm

well, it's all over now. reagan acted like he was unable to answer some easy questions, and mondale looked younger and more vigorous and on top of it. this is a big win for mondale particularly since people had such low expectations of him

i don't know how reagan will be able to recover in the next two debates

56 diamonda2u  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:29:28pm

re: #42 moderatelyradicalliberal

By performance do you mean he's great liar?

I just don't get how people equate lying for 90 minutes as a great performance? Lying with canned practiced lies, for 90 minutes... yes he gave a good performance...for an ACTOR but this ain't reality tv (at least I hope not).

57 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:29:39pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

Haiku for u:

The leg untingled
Darkness fears not, nor food stamps.
Birth certificate!

58 Sophist, Gingham Style  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:30:07pm

I'm still confused about Romney denying the $5 trillion in tax cuts he's proposing. That's your plan, it's what you put out there! How can you go on national television and deny it? IT'S A FACT!

59 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:30:40pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

A leg was left untingled tonight....
"Where Was Obama Tonight...What Was He Doing"
[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]

The Left crying chicken little is nothing new. It's why I stopped going to a lot of lefty blogs. I couldn't take it.

60 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:30:43pm

re: #58 SophistFCD

I'm still confused about Romney denying the $5 trillion in tax cuts he's proposing. That's your plan, it's what you put out there! How can you go on national television and deny it? IT'S A FACT!

I was amused how he said it wasn't a tax cut but rather tax relief. A rose by some other name I guess.

61 Tigger2  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:30:59pm

re: #58 SophistFCD

I'm still confused about Romney denying the $5 trillion in tax cuts he's proposing. That's your plan, it's what you put out there! How can you go on national television and deny it? IT'S A FACT!

He's a liar.

62 Alexzander  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:31:09pm

re: #51 Targetpractice

That's because Willard came in carrying a secret weapon: The ability to jettison every single one of the things he's been running on for months in order to avoid defending any of them.

I think one thing Romney did well in (again only speaking to the dimension of presentation) was discussing his previous support of his own Romneycare in Mass. Obama never really challenged Romney's presentation of this situation as a state-by-state issue.

63 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:31:26pm

I have a feeling that Obama is going to have his ass kicked around the block a few times before he is re-elected this Fall.
Should I say, a few times more.

64 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:31:33pm

re: #56 diamonda2u

I just don't get how people equate lying for 90 minutes as a great performance? Lying with canned practiced lies, for 90 minutes... yes he gave a good performance...for an ACTOR but this ain't reality tv (at least I hope not).

It's pretty fucked up that the media "analysis" is going to mostly be about style and presentation, with only the minority pointing out that many of the well-crafted statements were built on lies.

65 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:31:35pm

#SaveBigBird is trending on Twitter (in United States trend mode)

Wouldn't it be something if that's the only thing people remember from this debate...

66 Alexzander  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:32:06pm

re: #64 The Ghost of a Flea

It's pretty fucked up that the media "analysis" is going to mostly be about style and presentation, with only the minority pointing out that many of the well-crafted statements were built on lies.

Welcome to America.

67 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:32:15pm

re: #65 Interesting Times

#SaveBigBird is trending on Twitter (in United States trend mode)

Wouldn't it be something if that's the only thing people remember from this debate...

It may well be. Considering no one remembers Mitt's RNC speech. Just Eastwood and the chair.

68 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:32:32pm

re: #53 SanFranciscoZionist

Crap developing on the Syrian border. Emergency NATO meeting in Brussels.

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

This explains a lot.
Shit is getting real, and time is wasted on a serial liar.

69 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:32:40pm

re: #65 Interesting Times

i called it last thread. the real take away here is unemployed/possibly deceased big bird

70 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:32:41pm

Romney just lied non-stop. All those nice-sounding numbers and assertions? Lies.

71 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:33:11pm

re: #63 prairiefire

I have a feeling that Obama is going to have his ass kicked around the block a few times before he is re-elected this Fall.
Should I say, a few times more.

You think he expected anything else? One thing I like about Obama is that he never gets caught in the highs or the lows and doesn't do the 24 hour media cycle. Plus unlike Romney he's got an actual job to do. Tomorrow we'll be talking about Turkey and Syria and what the fuck does Willard have to do with that?

72 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:33:21pm

"Permanently repealing the estate tax is all about reducing the deficit."
-- Debate Winner!

73 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:33:27pm

re: #70 Charles Johnson

Romney just lied non-stop. All those nice-sounding numbers and assertions? Lies.

[Embedded content]

I wonder if that ends up being the story once things settle down.

74 diamonda2u  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:33:39pm

re: #54 moderatelyradicalliberal

Well it's a good thing debates haven't determined a wining president since 2004. Kerry and John McCain were both declared winners of their debates. So either debates don't matter or the public sees something partisans and the MSM don't.

The MSM is looking for ratings, i.e. money. They are looking for the best actor, not necessarily the best for the office. I'm sure folks will say "oh their complaining about the MSM because Obama lost". No, he didn't lose anything. I would hope people want this to be serious and more than a contest of who can lie the most with a straight face for 90 minutes. I mean we are talking about the most powerful position in the world, and that all we will get out of the debates is "who looked the best" (without being called out for not answering a questions with facts)... that doesn't bother people? That truly is scary.

75 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:34:19pm

Romney did a complete 180 during the debate. Tax cuts, health care, investment in the future, Medicare, that utterly baffling garbage about regulations....When he goes on his little 50k per-plate fundraisers, it'll be another 180. In terms of optics and appearance, it worked very, very well for him tonight.

It was the type of debate that would probably have won over a lot of voters before the days of internet/youtube/facebook/twitter etc. There's the old line If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit. Well, he dazzled with his bullshit. Will it have a huge effect on those likely to vote? Doubtful.

It will be interesting to see in the next few days how the Obama camp plays this. If it become a slew of attack ads against Mitt, then we can assume B.O. was just feeding Romney rope to hang himself. If it doesn't, then it will look like he was unprepared, because Mitt left huge openings for Barack to throttle him in the solar-plexus.

76 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:34:29pm

In case that picture is too small for you, let me just confirm what you're probably assuming: 100% white.

77 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:34:41pm

re: #53 SanFranciscoZionist

Crap developing on the Syrian border. Emergency NATO meeting in Brussels.

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

And people wonder why the President is tired?

78 Alexzander  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:34:53pm

Ughh. All the polls by CNN were extremely positive for Romney except for "likeability" where they basically tied (46 Romney, 45 Obama).

79 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:35:23pm

re: #69 SpaceJesus

i called it last thread. the real take away here is unemployed/possibly deceased big bird

80 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:35:24pm

re: #76 JamesWI

[Embedded content]

In case that picture is too small for you, let me just confirm what you're probably assuming: 100% white.

Or, if you're a black man in the South, "a jury of his peers."

81 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:35:31pm

re: #76 JamesWI

[Embedded content]

In case that picture is too small for you, let me just confirm what you're probably assuming: 100% white.

Yeah way to be representative of America, Fox. // Audience also looks to have an average age of 40-50 too.

82 Mocking Jay  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:35:33pm

re: #76 JamesWI

[Embedded content]

In case that picture is too small for you, let me just confirm what you're probably assuming: 100% white.

That picture is blinding me.

83 Belafon  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:35:50pm

re: #76 JamesWI

Even the presidents are all white.

84 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:35:54pm

re: #70 Charles Johnson

Facts and truth really don't have much to do with each other.
- William Faulkner

85 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:36:13pm

re: #78 Alexzander

Ughh. All the polls by CNN were extremely positive for Romney except for "likeability" where they basically tied (46 Romney, 45 Obama).

This is the planned MSM narrative. Horse race no matter what.

86 Tigger2  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:36:41pm

re: #76 JamesWI

[Embedded content]

In case that picture is too small for you, let me just confirm what you're probably assuming: 100% white.

That's a good sampling of the Fox viewer ship.

87 Majacita  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:37:03pm

I'm off to "Save Big Bird!" Night all.

88 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:37:18pm

re: #51 Targetpractice

That's because Willard came in carrying a secret weapon: The ability to jettison every single one of the things he's been running on for months in order to avoid defending any of them.

He shaped shifted mid debate.

89 Alexzander  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:37:21pm

Aexelrore: #85 moderatelyradicalliberal

This is the planned MSM narrative. Horse race no matter what.

It does make a better story. But lets not get all righty LSM etc.

90 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:37:29pm

Heh, a friend on FB just put it best:

"Romney hit a home run tonight, but just like with steroids, the lies necessitate an asterisk beside it."

91 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:37:38pm

I'm guessing that Syria/Turkey will be in focus tomorrow.
The debate performance will go away.

92 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:37:52pm

re: #75 Ghost of Tom Joad

Romney did a complete 180 during the debate. Tax cuts, health care, investment in the future, Medicare, that utterly baffling garbage about regulations....When he goes on his little 50k per-plate fundraisers, it'll be another 180. In terms of optics and appearance, it worked very, very well for him tonight.

It was the type of debate that would probably have won over a lot of voters before the days of internet/youtube/facebook/twitter etc. There's the old line If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit. Well, he dazzled with his bullshit. Will it have a huge effect on those likely to vote? Doubtful.

It will be interesting to see in the next few days how the Obama camp plays this. If it become a slew of attack ads against Mitt, then we can assume B.O. was just feeding Romney rope to hang himself. If it doesn't, then it will look like he was unprepared, because Mitt left huge openings for Barack to throttle him in the solar-plexus.

I'll admit PBO may have been thrown off by Mitt Romney just showing up and lying his ass off about every issue. It's hard to have a debate when your opponent was flip-flopping all over the place. It's like fighting Jello.

93 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:38:14pm

re: #91 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Did one of them fall off the face of the Earth tonight?

94 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:38:38pm

re: #85 moderatelyradicalliberal

Intrade: Obama's chances at 66.7%
[Link: www.intrade.com...]

95 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:39:13pm

re: #93 freetoken

Did one of them fall off the face of the Earth tonight?

See SFZ's # 53.

96 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:39:15pm

re: #92 moderatelyradicalliberal

I'll admit PBO may have been thrown off by Mitt Romney just showing up and lying his ass off about every issue. It's hard to have a debate when your opponent was flip-flopping all over the place. It's like fighting Jello.

Pretty much. When you come prepared to nail a guy for stuff he's been running on for months, but then he makes claims that are in total opposition, how do you fight against that? Obama tried to push that Romney had been saying this stuff for months, but when you have to explain why a lie is a lie, you lose voters interest.

97 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:39:19pm

re: #91 Reverend Mother Ramallo

I'm guessing that Syria/Turkey will be in focus tomorrow.
The debate performance will go away.

You think? Not sure the media will give it that much attention.

98 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:39:25pm

re: #94 jaunte

9% drop in one day.

99 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:40:04pm

re: #89 Alexzander

Aexelro

It does make a better story. But lets not get all righty LSM etc.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. The horse race needs a Romney comeback and as long as Romney didn't shit himself on stage they were prepared to give it to him. You think they wanted to report on the 47% video? Of course not.

100 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:40:26pm

re: #91 Reverend Mother Ramallo

I'm guessing that Syria/Turkey will be in focus tomorrow.
The debate performance will go away.

This.

101 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:40:50pm

re: #97 SanFranciscoZionist

You think? Not sure the media will give it that much attention.

It depends on how much it escalates.
They haven't started ignoring Syria yet.
At least I don't think so...

102 danhenry1  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:40:52pm

Re: my last post. Things happening inTurkey, Syria, and Iran...may be a bit more important than the debate.?

103 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:40:54pm

re: #77 William Barnett-Lewis

And people wonder why the President is tired?

Pfft. Who cares about some international crisis keeping the POTUS awake and distracted? Don't you know that Mitt slept in a noisy hotel? He had trains keeping him up all night!

104 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:41:10pm

re: #100 moderatelyradicalliberal

I doubt many Americans care about a few shells killing a few Turks.

105 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:41:27pm

So Mitt wants to fix the budget by eliminating a $400 yearly million subsidy to PBS.

Funny, but when the Buffet rule was up for a vote earlier in the year, the GOP mocked it because it would only increase tax revenues a paltry $5 billion a year, just a drop in the bucket that is the deficit.

106 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:42:41pm

re: #104 freetoken

I doubt many Americans care about a few shells killing a few Turks.

Americans didn't give a shit about thousands of Libyans being killed, but it dominated the MSMs attention last year. Always the next shiny object.

107 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:43:10pm

re: #92 moderatelyradicalliberal

I'll admit PBO may have been thrown off by Mitt Romney just showing up and lying his ass off about every issue. It's hard to have a debate when your opponent was flip-flopping all over the place. It's like fighting Jello.

I said the same thing during the debate. It almost looks like a tactical move (which I find hard to believe considering that campaign hasn't shown an ounce of tactical prowess) on Romney's/his campaign's part to make it almost impossible for BHO to articulate his answers against Mitt Romney version 135.84.

108 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:43:52pm

Obama is toast.

109 Destro  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:43:57pm

re: #92 moderatelyradicalliberal

I'll admit PBO may have been thrown off by Mitt Romney just showing up and lying his ass off about every issue. It's hard to have a debate when your opponent was flip-flopping all over the place. It's like fighting Jello.

You call him on the flip flop. Make a quip if you don't want to seem angry. But call the flip flop - don't sigh - don't jump in - wait your turn and call the flip flop.

110 philosophus invidius  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:44:37pm

re: #79 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

Image: big-bird-debate.jpg

111 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:45:13pm

re: #102 danhenry1

Re: my last post. Things happening inTurkey, Syria, and Iran...may be a bit more important than the debate.?

Iran's currency has crashed 40% this week compared to the dollar. Game over is close for the Mullahs and their wee spokesrat's nuclear program. That is the big story.

112 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:45:38pm

Ouch: Romney Calls Tesla a ‘Loser’

In the back and forth in Wednesday night’s presidential debate over tax breaks to energy companies, Republican nominee Mitt Romney argued that President Obama’s grants and tax breaks to renewable energy companies equalled 50 years of the tax breaks to gas companies.

Romney then name-dropped a few beneficiaries including the bankrupt solar panel maker Solyndra and Tesla Motors, the car maker that has gotten a $465 million loan from the Department of Energy, which it is paying off.

Romney then quipped that “One of my friends said, “You don’t pick the winners and losers. You pick the losers.”

Snap. And ouch.

It’s a bit premature to call Tesla a loser – especially as the company is building cars it hopes will revolutionize transportation.

Moreover, founder Elon Musk says it will accelerate its payment of the principal in the spring — and the Department of Energy isn’t complaining it’s not getting its money back.

While Tesla Motor’s future remains deeply uncertain, the Tesla Model S has gotten fantastic reviews, and Musk is inarguably one of Silicon Valley’s visionaries.

So calling Tesla a loser might be one of those “zingers” that everyone looks for in these kind of debates, but it’s certainly not a way to win the respect of the tech world.

113 Mocking Jay  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:45:41pm

re: #108 Ojoe

Obama is toast.

If Obama loses because of what happened over the last three hours then we kind of deserve a flip-flopping liar-in-chief with a spine made of jello.

114 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:45:43pm

re: #108 Ojoe

Obama is toast.

Ha. yeah right.

115 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:45:47pm

re: #94 jaunte

Intrade: Obama's chances at 66.7%
[Link: www.intrade.com...]

Good heavens only 2 out of 3 chance of winning now. Let's remember people according to conventional wisdom R-Money was supposed to be winning by 5-10 points or some shit. I'm done panicking. I would have kept my account at the Daily Kos for that shit.

116 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:46:45pm

Mitt's math re subsidies..

2.8 billion * 50 = 90 billion.

117 Alexzander  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:46:53pm

re: #108 Ojoe

Obama is toast.

LULZ

118 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:46:55pm

So now we have a contest between an alpha male and a self-described friggin' piece of "eye candy." It's over folks.

Good night.

119 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:47:18pm

Romney claimed his plan covers pre-existing conditions, but it would only keep insurers from taking away coverage. It does nothing for people with pre-existing conditions who can't get insurance.
Under Romney, 72 million people couldn't get insurance.

120 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:47:22pm

re: #108 Ojoe

Obama is toast.

You forgot your snark tag. If the 47% video didn't kill Mitt, one totally unmemorable debate won't kill Obama.

121 Mocking Jay  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:47:46pm

re: #118 Ojoe

So now we have a contest between an alpha male and a self-described friggin' piece of "eye candy." It's over folks.

Good night.

You know what, take your calls for a rational and sane third party and shove them up your ass.

122 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:47:52pm

re: #118 Ojoe

So now we have a contest between an alpha male and a self-described friggin' piece of "eye candy." It's over folks.

Good night.

See you next time!

123 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:48:01pm

re: #118 Ojoe

So now we have a contest between an alpha male and a self-described friggin' piece of "eye candy." It's over folks.

Good night.

Is this guy one of the trolls? I'm unfamiliar with him?

124 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:48:13pm

Just my little ha

125 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:48:38pm
126 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:48:40pm

re: #108 Ojoe

Obama is toast.

October 1, 2004
Kerry Wins Debate

GALLUP NEWS SERVICE

PRINCETON, NJ -- John Kerry won the debate Thursday night, 53% to 37%, according to a random sample of 615 registered voters who watched the event. Almost half of the viewers said they felt more favorable about the senator because of the debate, and 60% said Kerry expressed himself more clearly than did President Bush.

---

In the judgment of most of the press, Fritz won the first debate handily, a judgment with which I naturally concurred. The second was generally regarded as a tie.

127 Barflytom  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:48:50pm

FWIW, Romney has gone up from 26 to 32 on Intrade, which still seems like a good bet.

He was at 22 a couple of days ago.

Did any of you lefties take the investment advice I offered in the first debate thread ?

128 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:48:58pm

I actually think Obama got some good points in about Romney talking a game about being bipartisan and then repealing ACA on the first day. If Romney tries to repeal ACA, he's in for a rude awakening.

129 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:49:13pm

re: #124 Blackity Black Black!

Just my little ha

[Embedded content]

I see good ads for the Obama campaign in the home stretch. One thing that is always true about Romney, he lies.

130 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:49:16pm

This seems like the part in the movie when the hero jumps up, gives a rousing speech, and everybody gets over their funk to march on to victory.

131 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:50:07pm

re: #118 Ojoe

So now we have a contest between an alpha male and a self-described friggin' piece of "eye candy." It's over folks.

Good night.

People who believe in stuff like 'alpha male' are weird.

People who believe in stuff like 'alpha male' and don't think the President of the United States is an alpha are even weirder.

132 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:50:10pm

re: #126 engineer cat

October 1, 2004
Kerry Wins Debate

GALLUP NEWS SERVICE

PRINCETON, NJ -- John Kerry won the debate Thursday night, 53% to 37%, according to a random sample of 615 registered voters who watched the event. Almost half of the viewers said they felt more favorable about the senator because of the debate, and 60% said Kerry expressed himself more clearly than did President Bush.

---

In the judgment of most of the press, Fritz won the first debate handily, a judgment with which I naturally concurred. The second was generally regarded as a tie.

Silver has an article about the first debates favoring the challengers.

133 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:50:15pm

re: #127 Barflytom

FWIW, Romney has gone up from 26 to 32 on Intrade, which still seems like a good bet.

He was at 22 a couple of days ago.

Did any of you lefties take the investment advice I offered in the first debate thread ?

Um, no. I'll stick with Obama still at 66% chance of winning. Call me when Mitt's ahead in Ohio.

134 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:50:21pm

re: #127 Barflytom

You're bragging about Mittens having less than a 1 in 3 chance of winning?

OK.

135 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:50:26pm

re: #118 Ojoe

So now we have a contest between an alpha male and a self-described friggin' piece of "eye candy." It's over folks.

Thanks for letting us know you're a sexist creep. Todd Aikin fan too? Can't get more "alpha" than that! 9_9

136 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:50:33pm

Has Romney ever been over 50% on Intrade?

137 Alexzander  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:50:44pm

re: #123 moderatelyradicalliberal

Is this guy one of the trolls? I'm unfamiliar with him?

I think she/he is a wood-wind instrument in some close alternate reality.

138 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:51:06pm

re: #136 jaunte

Has Romney ever been over 50% on Intrade?

Think he was for a short period after the primaries ended.

139 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:51:15pm

re: #136 jaunte

Has Romney ever been over 50% on Intrade?

I'm not sure. But I think he was around 40% or so going into the summer.

140 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:51:18pm

re: #136 jaunte

Has Romney ever been over 50% on Intrade?

Only in the GOP primaries. Since they ended? I doubt it.

141 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:51:20pm

re: #118 Ojoe

So now we have a contest between an alpha male and a self-described friggin' piece of "eye candy." It's over folks.

Good night.

Hooray for artifice and counterfeits. There's nothing very dominant or commanding about basing your authority on lies and contradicting your previous statements.

Also, "alpha male" doesn't mean anything but who fucks first.

142 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:51:34pm

re: #131 Sheeplord

People who believe in stuff like 'alpha male' are weird.

People who believe in stuff like 'alpha male' and don't think the President of the United States is an alpha are even weirder.

This alpha male stuff seems to be the predominant concern for angry right wing males who feel that they have lost their privileged status. They also though R-Money's 47% comments where very alpha male too.

143 Alexzander  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:52:01pm

re: #127 Barflytom

FWIW, Romney has gone up from 26 to 32 on Intrade, which still seems like a good bet.

He was at 22 a couple of days ago.

Did any of you lefties take the investment advice I offered in the first debate thread ?

I would have but I am one of those pathetic liberals without any money to invest because I don't know what is good for me and only want to live off the government @#%.

144 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:52:16pm

Mitt is an alpha male? Har de Har Har!

He's the biggest weanie on a stick to run for President since Mike Dukakis.

145 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:52:16pm

Cartoon jungle land.

146 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:52:24pm

re: #123 moderatelyradicalliberal

Is this guy one of the trolls? I'm unfamiliar with him?

He usually just shows up to say Obama has no chance. He hadn't been showing up for the past month or so, probably drowning his sorrows in the bottle. Now Mitt "wins" a debate, and Obama doesn't have a chance again.

147 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:52:26pm

Currently at Intrade:

Barack Obama to be re-elected President in 2012
66.8%

Mitt Romney to be elected President in 2012
33.3%

148 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:52:38pm

re: #142 moderatelyradicalliberal

This alpha male stuff seems to be the predominant concern for angry right wing males who feel that they have lost their privileged status. They also though R-Money's 47% comments where very alpha male too.

Romney's 47% comments were the comments of a man who bitches about other people not paying their taxes yet has to his own holdings overseas. You know a passive aggressive little shithead.

149 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:52:58pm

re: #146 JamesWI

He usually just shows up to say Obama has no chance. He hadn't been showing up for the past month or so, probably drowning his sorrows in the bottle. Now Mitt "wins" a debate, and Obama doesn't have a chance again.

Oh, OK.

150 Mocking Jay  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:52:59pm

re: #147 Charles Johnson

Currently at Intrade:

Barack Obama to be re-elected President in 2012
66.8%

Mitt Romney to be elected President in 2012
33.3%

omg it's over... :'(

151 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:53:00pm
152 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:53:06pm
153 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:53:16pm

re: #147 Charles Johnson

Currently at Intrade:

Barack Obama to be re-elected President in 2012
66.8%

Mitt Romney to be elected President in 2012
33.3%

Obama's doomed! Film at 11!

154 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:53:35pm

66 to 33 in the 4th quarter.

155 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:53:41pm

re: #144 Mich-again

Mitt is an alpha male? Har de Har Har!

He's the biggest weanie on a stick to run for President since Mike Dukakis.

Mitt was being so alpha when he went to France instead of Vietnam.

156 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:53:52pm

re: #151 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

Poor Big Bird.

157 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:54:24pm

One of the things I kept thinking as I watched Willard's performance tonight was "Who put the battery in the Energizer Dumbass?"

158 AntonSirius  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:54:26pm

re: #5 Killgore Trout

Looking at more post debate coverage. Looks like Obama lost.

Obama pissed off his base by not pushing back harder against Romney's bullshit.

Romney pissed off his base by claiming he would work hand in hand with Democrats and confirming their worst fears about his lack of conviction, and also admitted on national television that he wants to turn Medicare into a voucher program.

That's not a "win" for Romney in any way that actually matters.

159 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:54:27pm

Not gonna feed the troll.
Not gonna feed the troll...

160 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:54:29pm
161 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:54:35pm

Denying insurance to 72 million people is really alpha.

162 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:54:41pm

re: #155 moderatelyradicalliberal

Mitt was being so alpha when he went to France instead of Vietnam.

Hey France was a tough place to be for an American in the 1960's. We couldn't all have been hanging out with pretty Vietnamese girls in Vietnam like John Kerry and others.

163 aagcobb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:54:54pm

re: #136 jaunte

Has Romney ever been over 50% on Intrade?

No, looking at the intrade graph, he has never touched 50%.

164 Alexzander  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:55:24pm

re: #147 Charles Johnson

Currently at Intrade:

Barack Obama to be re-elected President in 2012
66.8%

Mitt Romney to be elected President in 2012
33.3%

OK but lets not be in denial that this was a stronger than expected show for Romney and that it swung his odds of winning from awful to possible if unlikely.

165 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:55:32pm

re: #160 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

I'm not a huge Bill Maher fan but he's absolutely right there. Oh, and besides Romney's full of shit anyhow. In 2007, he was touting Romneycare as a model for the nation. He ran on it.

166 labman57  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:55:34pm

Now come the campaign ads.

Mitt spent most of the evening debating against his own prior public statements on his policy positions. There's this little thing called videotape. Cue the juxtaposition of Mitt v.1 vs. Mitt v.2 vs. Mitt v.3 vs ....

167 Destro  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:55:37pm

I will give you an example of how Obama could have done better:

Romney said he will call Obamacare after the president and Obama said "I like it" embracing the name.

But Obama could have won the point by saying "You should call it Romney-care" after yourself because you inspired it.

That would have been a Obama point.

168 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:55:51pm

re: #160 Interesting Times

Another potent reminder of what BS the "tenther" argument is:

169 Barflytom  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:55:56pm

re: #134 Lidane

You're bragging about Mittens having less than a 1 in 3 chance of winning?

OK.

That wasn't really my point. I think buying Romney at 20 or 30 points is a rather obvious bet, since the election is really 50/50.

If it wasn't for the hilariously biased media coverage, I think Romney would be an easy favourite to win.

170 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:56:46pm

Mitt was a badass in France, riding his mom's bike, around a castle...
in a suit.

171 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:56:54pm

re: #169 Barflytom

That wasn't really my point. I think buying Romney at 20 or 30 points is a rather obvious bet, since the election is really 50/50.

If it wasn't for the hilariously biased media coverage, I think Romney would be an easy favourite to win.

You aint from around here are ya?

172 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:56:59pm

re: #4 Alexzander

Watched the debate in a small local bar in Pittsburgh. It was clear even amongst the Obama supporters that this was a strong night for Romney.

And I'm glad to hear that. I was at dinner during the debate, but I'm glad Mitt had a good night.

But now I'm going to head back out again. Things are always keyed up after a debate so I'm going to keep away from the rest of the night so as not to annoy people. Sleep well, All.

173 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:57:02pm

Looking at Romney's lifetime chart on Intrade, he's never been over 50%. Hell, he's never been over 45%:

[Link: www.intrade.com...]

174 Mocking Jay  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:57:32pm

re: #173 Lidane

Looking at Romney's lifetime chart on Intrade, he's never been over 50%. Hell, he's never been over 45%:

[Link: www.intrade.com...]

obama's finished...

175 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:57:51pm

re: #173 Lidane

That chart line looks like my 401k in 2008.

176 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:58:03pm

re: #172 Dark_Falcon

Romney also lied a lot.

If you care at all about that in a president, that is. The amount of lying to the US people.

177 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:58:29pm

re: #160 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

That quote about health care at the State level is a dog whistle message. It means that he wants states to have the right to make abortion illegal.

178 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:58:32pm
179 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:58:51pm

GAME CHANGER

So everyone thinks Romney "won" .......but they still aren't really gonna vote for him.

180 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:58:52pm

re: #174 Mocking Jay

obama's finished...

Clearly.// He should have just packed up in June and given the presidency to Mitt.

181 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:59:11pm
182 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:59:33pm

re: #179 JamesWI

GAME CHANGER

[Embedded content]

So everyone thinks Romney "won" .......but they still aren't really gonna vote for him.

Like Jim Rome says.. Scoreboard.

183 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 8:59:41pm

re: #179 JamesWI

GAME CHANGER

[Embedded content]

So everyone thinks Romney "won" .......but they still aren't really gonna vote for him.

In other words, it was a wash. Romney gave good performance, but changed no minds.

Whoop-de-shit.

184 Alexzander  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:00:06pm

re: #176 Sheeplord

Romney also lied a lot.

If you care at all about that in a president, that is. The amount of lying to the US people.

At first I thought you were Shiplord Kril (SP?). Is he still around>

185 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:00:21pm

re: #179 JamesWI

GAME CHANGER

[Embedded content]

So everyone thinks Romney "won" .......but they still aren't really gonna vote for him.

Yeah I can think Romney won the debate without thinking boom this means he'll be a better leader than Obama. We'll see who wins in the ad wars. I think those who suggest that Obama didn't contest Romney's lies so he could use them in ads have a valid point.

186 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:00:49pm

re: #160 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

Ha, it just means the people in Mississippi are still going to be fucked, while the Connecticut people are gonna be OK.

The Great American, States Rights Way.

187 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:00:51pm

re: #76 JamesWI

[Embedded content]

In case that picture is too small for you, let me just confirm what you're probably assuming: 100% white.

Heh...my wife, upon looking at that pic, said, "Well, they're very white...and fat."

188 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:02:08pm

re: #169 Barflytom

favourite

wot wot

189 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:02:24pm

Here's Obama's lifetime chart on Intrade:

[Link: www.intrade.com...]

190 Barflytom  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:02:44pm

re: #171 Mich-again

You aint from around here are ya?

Got me there old chap ! I'd fit in if I could remember not to wear a bowler hat on weekdays. ( And a red coat at weekends ). Perhaps I should get rid of the musket as well.

191 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:02:52pm

re: #184 Alexzander

At first I thought you were Shiplord Kril (SP?). Is he still around>

Yep.

192 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:03:04pm

Joan Walsh:

"...Romney shook his Etch-A-Sketch and lied his way through the entire debate with no challenge from moderator Jim Lehrer. He simply denied he has proposed a $5 trillion tax cut. He insisted he wouldn’t cut the education budget or Pell Grants, when he will. He claimed the Affordable Care Act raised taxes by a trillion dollars. He essentially revived the idea of death panels by saying Obamacare established “a board that will tell people what kind of treatment they’re going to get.” Yet the president didn’t call him on any of it."
[Link: www.salon.com...]

193 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:03:25pm

re: #187 darthstar

Heh...my wife, upon looking at that pic, said, "Well, they're very white...and fat."

I actually noticed the fat lady before anything else.
Heh.

194 Alexzander  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:05:03pm

re: #193 Reverend Mother Ramallo

I actually noticed the fat lady before anything else.
Heh.

Going for the fat vote. It's a vote you cannot lose to be honest.

195 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:05:06pm

re: #185 HappyWarrior

Yeah I can think Romney won the debate without thinking boom this means he'll be a better leader than Obama. We'll see who wins in the ad wars. I think those who suggest that Obama didn't contest Romney's lies so he could use them in ads have a valid point.

I think that, after the initial sugar high of Willard's performance wears off, the fact-checking will begin and his ass will be in a vice. Though the cynic in me (or the cynic that is me) gets the feeling the media won't take his ass behind the woodshed for his lies tonight like they really should.

196 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:05:08pm
197 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:05:51pm

Troll.

198 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:06:05pm

re: #179 JamesWI

GAME CHANGER

[Embedded content]

So everyone thinks Romney "won" .......but they still aren't really gonna vote for him.

LikE I said it was a wash and probably nobody in that focus group was truly undecided.

Mitt didn't have a bad night, Call me when he's ahead in the swing states. Two more debates to go.

199 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:06:20pm

I figured going after Big Bird was a game changer.

200 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:06:27pm

Either way the cost of insurance is reduced, due to Obamacare. Factcheck is desperate to correct anything Obama said so they can balance out the mountain of lies Romney spewed tonight.

201 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:06:47pm

re: #195 Targetpractice

I think that, after the initial sugar high of Willard's performance wears off, the fact-checking will begin and his ass will be in a vice. Though the cynic in me (or the cynic that is me) gets the feeling the media won't take his ass behind the woodshed for his lies tonight like they really should.

I'm not really sure how seriously the country as a whole sees the fact checkers but I do expect to be seeing ads in the next few weeks calling Romney a flip-flopper which is exactly what he engaged in tonight. People will buy that more than factcheck.org and sites like that.

202 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:07:12pm

re: #196 Interesting Times

See, there is how to answer Mitt using a single, simple sentence.

If only the President could have spoken so clearly. He really seemed tonight to be elsewhere, with his rambling answers.

203 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:07:17pm
204 Alexzander  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:07:18pm

Anyone else watching MSNBC right now?

205 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:07:20pm

re: #192 jaunte

Joan Walsh:

I like Joan most of the time, but she's a chicken little too. Wait for the ads Joan. There is footage of Willard saying the opposite of what he said tonight on almost every issue and the O Team will be on it.

206 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:07:25pm

re: #179 JamesWI


it's the big bird vote

207 blueraven  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:07:27pm

re: #78 Alexzander

Ughh. All the polls by CNN were extremely positive for Romney except for "likeability" where they basically tied (46 Romney, 45 Obama).

Yes and they really have no idea the breakdown of who they polled.
Also even though the CNN focus group of undecideds declared Romeny the winner of the debate...8 decided to vote for Romney and 8 decided for Obama. The rest remain undecided.
It's a wash.

208 Alexzander  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:07:50pm

re: #203 JamesWI

[Embedded content]

GOLD.

209 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:07:58pm
210 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:08:06pm

re: #200 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

Either way the cost of insurance is reduced, due to Obamacare. Factcheck is desperate to correct anything Obama said so they can balance out the mountain of lies Romney spewed tonight.

Tell that to everyone at my job. We got checks not our company.

211 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:08:13pm

re: #205 moderatelyradicalliberal

There was a lot of rope available, and Mitt took all of it.

212 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:08:28pm

re: #208 Alexzander

GOLD.

That's GOLD!!!

213 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:08:50pm

re: #211 jaunte

There was a lot of rope available, and Mitt took all of it.

Not only did he take all of it, he had more rope brought in from China.

214 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:11:12pm

re: #201 HappyWarrior

I'm not really sure how seriously the country as a whole sees the fact checkers but I do expect to be seeing ads in the next few weeks calling Romney a flip-flopper which is exactly what he engaged in tonight. People will buy that more than factcheck.org and sites like that.

When the St. Pete Times started the fact checker I was overjoyed. They were supposed to be flat out journalists reporting. Then the lobby's, people offended, monied politicians peeped in. Bought and paid for, to provide a "both sides" i.e. not journalism slant.

215 AntonSirius  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:11:12pm

re: #127 Barflytom

FWIW, Romney has gone up from 26 to 32 on Intrade, which still seems like a good bet.

Indeed. This is the best possible time to short Romney. He won't get much higher than this.

216 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:11:12pm

re: #5 Killgore Trout

Looking at more post debate coverage. Looks like Obama lost.

Classic.

Killgore regularly complains about how people pay too much attention to media hype.

Now, instead of judging the debate on the merits of what the candidates said, or even on evidence of how the debate might affect public opinion as shown in polls, he says that Obama lost the debate because that's what he saw determined in post-debate coverage.

One might be tempted to think that Killgore's opinions tend towards being a tad fraudulent.

217 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:11:12pm

re: #204 Alexzander

Anyone else watching MSNBC right now?

No, as they are no doubt being hysterical. I still haven't forgiven Ed Shultz for his behavior during the 2010 election cycle.

218 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:11:12pm

re: #208 Alexzander

219 Alexzander  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:11:12pm

Headline on Politico: Not Debateable: Obama Stumbled.

220 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:11:20pm
221 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:13:07pm

Gay Texas Couple Wakes Up to Find 'Leave Or Die Fags' Painted on Their Front Porch: VIDEO

Joshua Harrison and Jeremy Jeffers, a gay couple in Clarendon, a town of about 2,000 people in the Texas panhandle, say they woke up to find a message reading "Leave or Die Fags" painted on their front porch. The couple says they noticed a change in town attitude toward them after an inflammatory ad about the "homosexual movement" written by a pastor appeared in the local paper, ProNews 7 reports [...]

Yes, there is another "debate" scheduled for social issues, but here is yet another constituency for which the President didn't provide a defense tonight.

What about hospital visitation rights for same sex couples? Will Mitt's "states rights" plan allow for Texans in gay relationships to have hospital visitation rights?

222 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:13:25pm

re: #190 Barflytom

Got me there old chap ! I'd fit in if I could remember not to wear a bowler hat on weekdays. ( And a red coat at weekends ). Perhaps I should get rid of the musket as well.

Whatever dude. So you're a Brit who hates Obama. lemme guess English Defence League? did shrieking harpy send you here. ha

223 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:13:44pm
224 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:13:57pm

Image: 576470_350516885039710_1358501379_n.jpg

225 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:14:31pm

Look on the bright side of Mitt cutting PBS: you won't have to worry about Jim Lehrer hosting any more debates.

226 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:14:37pm

re: #221 freetoken

Gay Texas Couple Wakes Up to Find 'Leave Or Die Fags' Painted on Their Front Porch: VIDEO

Mitt: Those aren't the words I would have used..

227 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:14:46pm

re: #221 freetoken

Gay Texas Couple Wakes Up to Find 'Leave Or Die Fags' Painted on Their Front Porch: VIDEO

Yes, there is another "debate" scheduled for social issues, but here is yet another constituency for which the President didn't provide a defense tonight.

What about hospital visitation rights for same sex couples? Will Mitt's "states rights" plan allow for Texans in gay relationships to have hospital visitation rights?

Yeah, I really wish they had brought this up. Mitt, asshole, he is claims issues like this are distraction from economic issues. Well asshole you want to deny people rights because of you and your constituents' bigoted views about gay people so explain why it should be sound policy to deny them.

228 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:15:05pm

re: #216 Talking Point Detective

Classic.

Killgore regularly complains about how people pay too much attention to media hype.

Now, instead of judging the debate on the merits of what the candidates says, or even on evidence of how the debate might affect public opinion as shown in polls, he says that Obama lost the debate because that's what he saw determined in post-debate coverage.

One might be tempted to think that Killgore's opinions tend towards being a tad fraudulent.

Killgore is voting for Romney. He's like all of the other so-called "independents" who are ashamed to admit that they are Republicans. I disagree with Dark Falcon on almost everything, but he's honest about his party affiliation.

229 austin_blue  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:15:17pm

Obama didn't even mention the 47% tape?

Damn.

230 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:15:28pm

Except it's not an okiedoke. There is no chance to negotiate to the middle ground with the GOP in charge of the House.

231 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:15:41pm

re: #204 Alexzander

Anyone else watching MSNBC right now?

The TV is only there for sports..

232 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:15:47pm

re: #223 jaunte

The President should have invoked the phrase "Voodoo Economics" - that would have ringed at least a few bells.

233 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:16:53pm

re: #219 Alexzander

Headline on Politico: Not Debateable: Obama Stumbled.

Image: onoz.gif

234 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:16:54pm

re: #229 austin_blue

Obama didn't even mention the 47% tape?

Damn.

Nope.

235 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:18:09pm

re: #228 moderatelyradicalliberal

Killgore is voting for Romney. He's like all of the other so-called "independents" who are ashamed to admit that they are Republicans. I disagree with Dark Falcon on almost everything, but he's honest about his party affiliation.

Exactly.

KT natters on about being a "classical liberal", which is just code for "I'm a Libertarian but don't want to admit it because of the Alex Jones loons". That means he's voting for Romney.

At least DF is honest about his politics. He doesn't concern troll and pretend to be a disinterested party.

236 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:18:22pm

I'm old enough to remember a tactic commonly referred to as "Rope a Dope", and as I recall it f-ing drove people who were watching absolutely crazy and made them yell out strategy tips to the TV.

237 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:18:40pm

Like I said downstairs, what we got tonight was "Mitt McCain," the guy who spent months running to the far-right deciding to make that made dash to the center in the hope that he can win over last-minute undecideds by not tacking to the right of Genghis Khan. I heard the word "bipartisan" more tonight than I have since this spring.

238 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:18:57pm

re: #236 Mich-again

I'm old enough to remember a tactic commonly referred to as "Rope a Dope", and as I recall it f-ing drove people who were watching absolutely crazy and made them yell out strategy tips to the TV.

You mean like the people yelling out strategy tips to the POTUS?

239 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:19:00pm

this was my prediction last week

engineer dog 9/29/2012 1:50:06 pm PDT

Romney Clears Debate Hurdle Of Likability And Presidentialness

now viewed by most as likable, presidential, clueless ignorant asshole

240 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:19:12pm

re: #236 Mich-again

I'm old enough to remember a tactic commonly referred to as "Rope a Dope", and as I recall it f-ing drove people who were watching absolutely crazy and made them yell out strategy tips to the TV.

The most common one being "Get off the fucking rope!"

241 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:19:15pm

Spineless, just the way KT likes em:

242 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:19:38pm

Would it be too histrionic of me to say that we witnessed the death of Progressivism tonight?

243 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:19:53pm

re: #238 Lidane

You mean like the people yelling out strategy tips to the POTUS?

Yep.. precisely.

244 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:20:24pm

re: #242 freetoken

Would it be too histrionic of me to say that we witnessed the death of Progressivism tonight?

kind of

245 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:20:34pm

re: #242 freetoken

Would it be too histrionic of me to say that we witnessed the death of Progressivism tonight?

Yes, by a factor of about a billion.

Seriously, get a grip, dude. It was a lackluster presidential debate.

246 Mocking Jay  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:20:36pm

re: #242 freetoken

Would it be too histrionic of me to say that we witnessed the death of Progressivism tonight?

I like you better when you're posting about Creationists.

247 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:20:37pm

KitchenAid briefly lost control of its messaging tonight:

During tonight's presidential debate, KitchenAid posted a nasty and poorly spelled comment on its Twitter feed about President Obama's grandmother, who died shortly before he took office. The full tweet from @KitchenAidUSA, while quickly deleted, was rapidly retweeted by many (such as Heather Spohr, shown below) who saw it appear during the debate. It read: "Obamas gma even knew it was going 2 b bad! 'She died 3 days b4 he became president,' " along with the #nbcpolitics hashtag. Shortly after deleting the post, the brand tried to limit the collateral damage with a commendable amount of rapid transparency: "Deepest apologies for an irresponsible tweet that is in no way a representation of the brand's opinion. #nbcpolitics." Obviously, it's going to be a bad Thursday for somebody who forgot to log out of a client account, and probably a bad Thursday for quite a few somebodies that gave said employee the keys.
[Link: www.adweek.com...]

248 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:20:48pm

re: #242 freetoken

Would it be too histrionic of me to say that we witnessed the death of Progressivism tonight?

Think what we witnessed tonight was the end of any difference between the two candidates. Willard basically decided that he can't defend the shit he's been running on for months, so now he's gonna try to portray himself as little different from Obama, but proclaim himself the "better choice."

249 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:21:12pm

sup

Image: HWHsI.jpg

250 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:22:03pm

What is up with the streak of despair that tends to run through liberal politics?

251 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:22:04pm

jesus christ america you sure are something

252 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:22:07pm

re: #248 Targetpractice

Think what we witnessed tonight was the end of any difference between the two candidates. Willard basically decided that he can't defend the shit he's been running on for months, so now he's gonna try to portray himself as little different from Obama, but proclaim himself the "better choice."

Yeah Mitt finally decided he wanted to run to the center. Too bad there's an assload of clips of him doing otherwise. Really as I said, one can think Romney won the debate without thinking this means Romney's the better leader.

253 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:23:03pm

Ultimately, Mitt Romney's statement that he wants to fire Big Bird may be the most important moment in the debate.

254 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:23:03pm

re: #242 freetoken

Would it be too histrionic of me to say that we witnessed the death of Progressivism tonight?

Was that a serious comment?

255 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:23:03pm

re: #250 Sheeplord

It sort of replaces the whole religious self-effacing thing.

256 AntonSirius  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:23:03pm

re: #192 jaunte

Yet the president didn’t call him on any of it.

Joan wasn't watching the same debate I was. Obama called him on the $5 trillion in tax cuts, and on the role of the Obamacare board. But he didn't leap across the stage and shout 'DIRTY DIRTY LIAR" at the top of his lungs, so I guess it doesn't count.

257 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:23:03pm

re: #242 freetoken

Would it be too histrionic of me to say that we witnessed the death of Progressivism tonight?

I'm not sure about that, but I bet there are tea party loyalists who are wondering tonight Wha Happened?

258 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:23:37pm
259 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:23:47pm

re: #251 SpaceJesus

Are you talking about yourself in the third person again?

260 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:24:28pm

re: #242 freetoken

Would it be too histrionic of me to say that we witnessed the death of Progressivism tonight?

yes

261 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:24:33pm

Hey Wha Happen??

262 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:24:34pm

re: #236 Mich-again

I'm old enough to remember a tactic commonly referred to as "Rope a Dope", and as I recall it f-ing drove people who were watching absolutely crazy and made them yell out strategy tips to the TV.

I'm totally over the left's hysteria and the MSM and their damn narratives. R-Money may have gotten brief reprieve, but he's still a shit candidate, a liar and behind in every swing state. Obama has dealt with worse than a lack luster debate and they don't do the 24 news cycle shit. They don't get complacent with highs or drown their sorrows in the lows.

I left the ONOZ OMG crew a long time ago. If you think this is a game changer just stay the fuck home. As for me I'm making donations and telephone call. This kind of nonsense over a debate that was a wash and left the president with a 66%-74% chance of winning is just silly.

263 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:25:04pm

re: #253 Charles Johnson

Ultimately, Mitt Romney's statement that he wants to fire Big Bird may be the most important moment in the debate.

Too bad four year olds don't vote. But really what the hell was that aside from a pathetic shout out to his base that loathes PBS? Yeah Mitt, you're such a courageous deficit hawk for wanting to cut PBS but you can't be bothered to cut any DoD waste or be bothered ever to support a tax increase on you and your wealthy friends.

264 diamonda2u  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:25:14pm

Makes you wonder if the media is about to "Ryan" Romney? I mean he lied so much, it is like Ryan's speech. Oh the nigh of the speech he was "da man" but the lies we're so bad, that the next 24 hrs, he became known for given the most lies in one acceptance speech. Could happen

265 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:25:18pm

re: #257 Mich-again

I'm not sure about that, but I bet there are tea party loyalists who are wondering tonight Wha Happened?

Tomorrow will definitely be interesting. After the initial euphoria of Willard's "win" ends, the back-biting will begin. Will they accept that he can only win when he runs to the center and *gasp!* acts like a RINO? Or will they scream bloody murder and lead to a wave of declarations that this was the "final straw"?

266 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:25:47pm

big bird.

267 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:25:53pm

re: #250 Sheeplord

What is up with the streak of despair that tends to run through liberal politics?

I've been reading a lot of despair from the right sided wing. With the election this close, it's a blood sport.

268 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:26:01pm

re: #248 Targetpractice

Think what we witnessed tonight was the end of any difference between the two candidates.

So, it's down to tie color choices now, yes?

The blue Obama wore was a really nice shade, but the red on the other guy stood out more.

269 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:26:13pm

re: #242 freetoken

Would it be too histrionic of me to say that we witnessed the death of Progressivism tonight?

Strong Debate Performance Erases All Memories Of Callousness And Failed Policy Positions

american voters flock sheeplike to tall man speaking loudly

in a word, progressivism was established as the american governing ideology by teddy roosevelt, and it ain't a going away anytime soon

270 bratwurst  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:26:28pm

re: #250 Sheeplord

What is up with the streak of despair that tends to run through liberal politics?

Pretty typical, especially among those of us who came of age in the 80s!

271 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:26:28pm

re: #262 moderatelyradicalliberal

I'm totally over the left's hysteria and the MSM and their damn narratives. R-Money may have gotten brief reprieve, but he's still a shit candidate, a liar and behind in every swing state. Obama has dealt with worse than a lack luster debate and they don't do the 24 news cycle shit. They don't get complacent with highs or drown their sorrows in the lows.

I left the ONOZ OMG crew a long time ago. If you think this is a game changer just stay the fuck home. As for me I'm making donations and telephone call. This kind of nonsense over a debate that was a wash and left the president with a 66%-74% chance of winning is just silly.

74%? As of right now, Nate Silver's got him at 86%. Romney "won" one debate, it's not the end of the election.

272 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:26:33pm

DEATH OF PROGRESSIVEISM!!!!!

Apparently, this debate "win" is going to erase the 10 point leads in Ohio and Wisconsin, the 5+ point leads in Florida, Virginia, Colorado, Nevada, etc.

Yep, that's how important this debate was. I guess we can't even count on California and New York now!

273 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:27:27pm

re: #250 Sheeplord

What is up with the streak of despair that tends to run through liberal politics?

It's why Democrats rarely get nice things. The first sign of a Democratic politician stumbling or having an off night sends the professional left to the fainting couch.

Obamacare paid for a spinal transplant during the DNC, but the pro left isn't happy unless they cry about something. "ZOMG OBAMA WENT FROM 69% TO 66% ON INTRADE. HE'S LOST THE ELECTION!" It's tedious.

274 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:27:29pm

somebody cue obama's comeback training montage

275 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:28:01pm

re: #271 Targetpractice

74%? As of right now, Nate Silver's got him at 86%. Romney "won" one debate, it's not the end of the election.

Think she's using intrade. But yeah it's one debate. Some people have pointed out that Kerry and McCain "won" the first debates in 2004 and 2008. A lot good that did.

276 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:28:10pm

re: #257 Mich-again

I'm not sure about that, but I bet there are tea party loyalists who are wondering tonight Wha Happened?

if teabaggers are more likely to support romney after what he said tonite it proves definitively that they don't believe a word of their ideology

277 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:28:14pm
278 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:28:30pm

re: #246 Mocking Jay

I like you better when you're posting about Creationists.

We can do that.

The normally feckless UK bureaucracy moves to slightly less fecklessness:

Causeway display amended after creationist debate

279 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:28:48pm
280 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:28:54pm

re: #275 HappyWarrior

Think she's using intrade. But yeah it's one debate. Some people have pointed out that Kerry and McCain "won" the first debates in 2004 and 2008. A lot good that did.

IIRC, Obama was never declared the "winner" of any of the presidential debates in '08. That's why President McCain is running for his second term...oh wait...

281 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:29:44pm

re: #253 Charles Johnson

Ultimately, Mitt Romney's statement that he wants to fire Big Bird may be the most important moment in the debate.

Romney's plan to fix the economy

282 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:30:05pm

re: #265 Targetpractice

Tomorrow will definitely be interesting. After the initial euphoria of Willard's "win" ends, the back-biting will begin. Will they accept that he can only win when he runs to the center and *gasp!* acts like a RINO? Or will they scream bloody murder and lead to a wave of declarations that this was the "final straw"?

Yeah I'm not sure who Mitt frightened more tonight, The ones on the left who thought Obama was in for a cakewalk, or the Tea Baggers who are still suspicious that Mitt is a RINO that hijacked their movement.

283 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:30:12pm

re: #250 Sheeplord

What is up with the streak of despair that tends to run through liberal politics?

we found ourselves locked in a room forever chained to a sociopathic liar with no weapons but pale dispassionate truth

284 The Mongoose  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:30:15pm

[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

The president is still the favorite to win re-election. But he got beat tonight. I suspect he'll rebound strongly in the 2nd debate.

285 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:30:21pm

re: #280 Targetpractice

IIRC, Obama was never declared the "winner" of any of the presidential debates in '08. That's why President McCain is running for his second term...oh wait...

I hear Vice President Palin is considering running in 2016. She's super popular.//

286 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:31:08pm

re: #283 engineer cat

we found ourselves locked in a room forever chained to a sociopathic liar with no weapons but pale dispassionate truth

A grim scenario.

287 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:31:08pm

re: #258 Lidane

[Embedded content]

But Bert is the root of all evil. Are we *sure* that is his actual opinion on the matter. Might depend on his stock portfolio contents.

288 austin_blue  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:31:11pm

I'm going to miss PBS.

Sigh.

But it must be sacrificed to continue to fund tax breaks for the 1%, and I understand that this is crucial to the survival of our economy and country.

Thanks, Mittens. It is now now as clear to me as an unmuddied lake, a summer sky of deepest azure....

289 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:31:15pm
290 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:31:43pm

re: #284 The Mongoose

[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

The president is still the favorite to win re-election. But he got beat tonight. I suspect he'll rebound strongly in the 2nd debate.

I figure that the town hall is where he'll shine, because the folks there will not have to worry about Willard stomping all over them to interrupt for a "rebuttal." And we'll actually get more of a variety in questions besides "How do you disagree about (insert budgetary topic)?"

291 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:32:00pm

The real reason the GOP hates Sesame Street is that Bert and Ernie were the first gay couple on TV.

292 diamonda2u  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:32:23pm

When you think about it, Mitt was like Palin except for he at least stuck to the topic of the question, problem is he had prepared practices answers, even if they were lies. Palin was funnier because she started spouting answers confidently that didn't even relate to questions.... Oh yeah, and they thought she won ...lol. Member Tucker got a tingle to trickle or star burst?

293 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:32:44pm

re: #273 Lidane

It's why Democrats rarely get nice things. The first sign of a Democratic politician stumbling or having an off night sends the professional left to the fainting couch.

Obamacare paid for a spinal transplant during the DNC, but the pro left isn't happy unless they cry about something. "ZOMG OBAMA WENT FROM 69% TO 66% ON INTRADE. HE'S LOST THE ELECTION!" It's tedious.

It's a lot like dealing with the Orioles fans I deal. Love the people, we share a common bond but too many freak out at the slightest trouble. That's how I feel about that segment of the left. I agree with them more than I don't but they flip too easily. I guess this is why many of my friends are fairly apolitical because I don't want to hear about politics 24/7. I want to enjoy my beer, talk music, etc.

294 AntonSirius  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:33:10pm

re: #245 Sheeplord

Yes, by a factor of about a billion.

Seriously, get a grip, dude. It was a lackluster presidential debate.

Not just that - it was a lackluster debate performance from a guy who didn't need to win anyway, and was watching his opponent write his next dozen ads for him...

Obama is very good at getting out of people's way when they are slitting their own throats.

295 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:33:21pm

re: #250 Sheeplord

What is up with the streak of despair that tends to run through liberal politics?

It's a feature not a bug. The worst feature. I left most of the lefty blogs and limited my cable news because I couldn't take it anymore. Liberals seem to need overwhelming evidence of winning. It's a calamity for Obama to go from a 75% chance of winning to 66%.

I think it actually comes form the belief that since 1980 the vast majority of white Americans are Republicans deep down inside and will only vote for Democrats under extraordinary circumstances. So Republicans can get away with just not shitting themselves and Democrats have to be 100% on their game all of the time. As a result one lackluster debate performance from a Democrat means doom and one half ass performance from a Republicans means it's game over.

I remember this all through 2008 was why can't Obama put Hillary away in the debates? The it was why can't Obama put McCain away in the dabates? Everyone who was on MSNBC was just hysterical about it. Like they are now.

It's de ja vu and I'm over it.

296 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:34:08pm

re: #292 diamonda2u

...lol. Member Tucker got a tingle to trickle or star burst?

Rich Lowry, with starbursts coming out of his TV.

297 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:34:13pm

Never interrupt a liar..

298 austin_blue  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:34:41pm

re: #292 diamonda2u

When you think about it, Mitt was like Palin except for he at least stuck to the topic of the question, problem is he had prepared practices answers, even if they were lies. Palin was funnier because she started spouting answers confidently that didn't even relate to questions.... Oh yeah, and they thought she won ...lol. Member Tucker got a tingle to trickle or star burst?

Look, I'm on the Obama team. I've sent close to $1,000 to him this cycle, and tonight was disappointing.

That is all.

299 AntonSirius  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:34:53pm

re: #250 Sheeplord

What is up with the streak of despair that tends to run through liberal politics?

I know! It's hilarious.

300 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:36:10pm

It's a fatalist mindset. I wasn't alive for much of the 80's but I remember 2004 quite well. People like that are why I do politics only as a hobby and not a lifestyle. To think I wanted to get into politics and get a poli sci degree back then, ha!

301 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:36:11pm
One of the most interesting moments for me: learning that Mitt Romney doesn’t trust his own sons to tell the truth.

Romney: “Look, I got five BOYS. I’m used to people saying something that’s not always true, but just keep repeating it.”

Did you? Always tell the truth, as a child? Looking back, either on my stint as a child, or as a parent, that's not exactly the way it always went.

But of course, there is a world of difference between what Romney said, and what you say he said. Both quotes are there, so the difference is plain and visible.

It's a question of "at what age"? There's now, and there's then.

302 diamonda2u  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:36:24pm

re: #298 austin_blue

Look, I'm on the Obama team. I've sent close to $1,000 to him this cycle, and tonight was disappointing.

That is all.

Did you want him to lie to you? Did you want him to spend his entire time on stage fighting with the 50 incarnations of Mitt? Just sayin

303 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:36:26pm

re: #294 AntonSirius

Not just that - it was a lackluster debate performance from a guy who didn't need to win anyway, and was watching his opponent write his next dozen ads for him...

THIS x a billion.

Mitt Romney is now on camera openly saying the exact opposite of everything he's run on for this past year. It's just like the 47% video. All Team Obama has to do is use Mitt's own words against him.

304 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:36:47pm

facebook is all big bird.

i think mitt may have messed with some shit he shouldn't have

305 austin_blue  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:36:52pm

re: #250 Sheeplord

What is up with the streak of despair that tends to run through liberal politics?

Easy prey not pounced upon.

306 diamonda2u  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:37:08pm

re: #296 makeitstop

Rich Lowry, with starbursts coming out of his TV.

Ahhh that's right Lowry....lol

307 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:37:22pm

"I’m used to people saying something that’s not always true, but just keep repeating it. It looked like an effective technique, so I adopted it."

308 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:37:55pm

I wonder what Sean Hann11ty thought of the debate?

////

309 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:37:57pm

I want to see if Rasmussen juices his poll tomorrow to give Romney the lead overnight.....even though that's not the way polls actually work.

310 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:38:55pm

re: #308 Mich-again

I wonder what Sean Hann11ty thought of the debate?

////

Gamechanger. Of course, he would say that even if Romney came drunk as a skunk.

311 The Mongoose  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:38:55pm

re: #290 Targetpractice

I figure that the town hall is where he'll shine, because the folks there will not have to worry about Willard stomping all over them to interrupt for a "rebuttal." And we'll actually get more of a variety in questions besides "How do you disagree about (insert budgetary topic)?"

Entirely possible. It will be fascinating to see how the tactics change after tonight. This is the first potential (POTENTIAL, not at all guaranteed) game-changing debate in a long time. I too believe president Obama will fight back in the town hall.

But Governor Romney hit hard tonight. It was actually impressive, even if one disagrees with him. It was a good debate, a fair debate, and Mr. Romney won. I suspect this will lead to spirited, entertaining, and dare I say substantive debates in the coming weeks.

312 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:39:09pm

re: #298 austin_blue

Look, I'm on the Obama team. I've sent close to $1,000 to him this cycle, and tonight was disappointing.

That is all.

Disappointing? Sure. Obama could have done a lot better. But Mitt's now on camera openly lying and flipping on things he's been saying for a year now. He also turned his back on some serious planks in the GOP platform, like regulation and taxes.

If Team Obama are smart, they'll nail him to the wall by using his own words against him.

313 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:39:10pm

re: #308 Mich-again

I wonder what Sean Hann11ty thought of the debate?

////

I accidentally flipped over there not too long after the end. He had a self-satisfied smirk on his face like he thought Romney won the election. Too funny.

314 diamonda2u  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:39:16pm

re: #309 JamesWI

I want to see if Rasmussen juices his poll tomorrow to give Romney the lead overnight.....even though that's not the way polls actually work.

You noticed they had Mitt up til about fiv days or so ago and then Obama, then tied, then Obama...

315 Mocking Jay  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:39:17pm
316 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:39:36pm

re: #298 austin_blue

...and tonight was disappointing.

My major concern (yes, concern) is that Obama presented no platform tonight, no vision, no goals, no aspirations, no dreams, no "there" there.

He showed up, barely.

So what sort of mandate (what a lovely word) will his re-election bring. Will he have roused the masses needed to help his party gain seats in the Senate? How about overtaking the GOP majority in the House?

Maybe Obama is quite fine with the way things are now?

What of the "progressive agenda"? Is there one? Of what would it consist, if we take what was uttered from the mouth of the President tonight?

Tonight's President Obama: I'm wonkier than the other guy, and I do math.

Upon that one builds a future?

317 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:40:07pm

I'm watching a focus group on MSNBC.
My gawd. People are saying they can't get enough info...
Getting a headache.

Oh, my liberal despair comes from a subconscious lack of faith in other people's ability to reason.

318 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:40:29pm

re: #304 SpaceJesus

facebook is all big bird.

i think mitt may have messed with some shit he shouldn't have

The people I work with did not watch the debate. But they are the facebook peeps, they will see the drift.

haha

319 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:40:37pm

re: #310 HappyWarrior

Gamechanger. Of course, he would say that even if Romney came drunk as a skunk.

He is Sarah Palin without the glasses and long hair.

320 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:40:43pm

re: #311 The Mongoose

Entirely possible. It will be fascinating to see how the tactics change after tonight. This is the first potential (POTENTIAL, not at all guaranteed) game-changing debate in a long time. I too believe president Obama will fight back in the town hall.

But Governor Romney hit hard tonight. It was actually impressive, even if one disagrees with him. It was a good debate, a fair debate, and Mr. Romney won. I suspect this will lead to spirited, entertaining, and dare I say substantive debates in the coming weeks.

I will agree that Romney won tonight, but I don't consider this a "fair debate" in any sense.

321 AntonSirius  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:41:06pm

re: #265 Targetpractice

Tomorrow will definitely be interesting. After the initial euphoria of Willard's "win" ends, the back-biting will begin. Will they accept that he can only win when he runs to the center and *gasp!* acts like a RINO? Or will they scream bloody murder and lead to a wave of declarations that this was the "final straw"?

I'm wondering that too. The Solyndra/PBS winks can only go so far to counter their paranoia that he's not really one of them.

322 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:41:40pm
323 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:41:41pm

re: #262 moderatelyradicalliberal

I'm totally over the left's hysteria and the MSM and their damn narratives. R-Money may have gotten brief reprieve, but he's still a shit candidate, a liar and behind in every swing state. Obama has dealt with worse than a lack luster debate and they don't do the 24 news cycle shit. They don't get complacent with highs or drown their sorrows in the lows.

I left the ONOZ OMG crew a long time ago. If you think this is a game changer just stay the fuck home. As for me I'm making donations and telephone call. This kind of nonsense over a debate that was a wash and left the president with a 66%-74% chance of winning is just silly.

I agree with one of your points: Obama's chances didn't tank. There are factors at work that make him a near sure thing, whatever happens in the debates.

The challenger to an incumbent president who hasn't lost a war or seen a recession begin on his watch has a cliff to climb. The current issue of "New Scientist" goes into detail.

324 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:42:22pm

re: #319 Mich-again

He is Sarah Palin without the glasses and long hair.

I don't know about that but I think he is a very shallow candidate and debate win tonight or not, he's still that.

325 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:42:29pm

re: #317 Reverend Mother Ramallo

I'm watching a focus group on MSNBC.
My gawd. People are saying they can't get enough info...
Getting a headache.

Oh, my liberal despair comes from a subconscious lack of faith in other people's ability to reason.

Indeed, if some can't understand the despair, it is because they have a higher opinion of the American electorate than others. I'm not ready to believe that they can see through all the bullshit Willard weaved tonight to realize that his "win" was meaningless.

326 Mocking Jay  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:42:56pm

re: #320 Targetpractice

I will agree that Romney won tonight, but I don't consider this a "fair debate" in any sense.

Not even sure the word "debate" really applies.

327 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:43:14pm
328 diamonda2u  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:43:36pm

re: #311 The Mongoose

Entirely possible. It will be fascinating to see how the tactics change after tonight. This is the first potential (POTENTIAL, not at all guaranteed) game-changing debate in a long time. I too believe president Obama will fight back in the town hall.

But Governor Romney hit hard tonight. It was actually impressive, even if one disagrees with him. It was a good debate, a fair debate, and Mr. Romney won. I suspect this will lead to spirited, entertaining, and dare I say substantive debates in the coming weeks.

I guess impressive and hit hard are in the eyes of the beholder. Lying is not impressive. Double speak, changing ones position like underwear is not impressive or hitting hard, it's deceptive and lying and shows a person who can't be trusted.

329 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:43:41pm

re: #284 The Mongoose

[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

The president is still the favorite to win re-election. But he got beat tonight. I suspect he'll rebound strongly in the 2nd debate.

Me too. I think the next one will be a mix. Jim Leher did a very nice favor for Willard by not asking him about social issues or Bain or the 47% stuff. None of his past flip-flops either. But I think the Obama folks got a revelation tonight. Willard is not only a liar, but a comfortable liar. PBO better be ready for that shit next time.

330 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:44:13pm

re: #319 Mich-again

He is Sarah Palin without the glasses and long hair.

No, that's Rick Perry.

Mittens is just shallow and unprincipled.

331 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:44:29pm

Mitt's true objection to any subsidies to alternative energy are based in the fact that as alternative energy sources slowly replace oil, gas and coal, it will work towards building a glut in the supply of the carbon-based energy which will lower the demand, crash the prices and reduce the profit margins of his biggest contributors.

332 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:44:51pm

re: #329 moderatelyradicalliberal

Me too. I think the next one will be a mix. Jim Leher did a very nice favor for Willard by not asking him about social issues or Bain or the 47% stuff. None of his past flip-flops either. But I think the Obama folks got a revelation tonight. Willard is not only a liar, but a comfortable liar. PBO better be ready for that shit next time.

Problem with debating a liar is that debunking the lies doesn't fit into a soundbite. When you have to start talking "ratios" and "studies," then the voters tune out.

333 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:45:41pm

Surprised the clean coal thing isn't getting mocked. That was fucking stupid. If he wants to make the point that we should still invest in coal as an energy source but don't tell me coal is "clean."

334 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:46:07pm

re: #325 Targetpractice

Indeed, if some can't understand the despair, it is because they have a higher opinion of the American electorate than others. I'm not ready to believe that they can see through all the bullshit Willard weaved tonight to realize that his "win" was meaningless.

I learned my lesson with Al Gore. Can't take anything for granted.
It helps to know that the U.S. has the collective attention span of a 2 year old on Pepsi.

335 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:46:12pm

re: #333 HappyWarrior

Surprised the clean coal thing isn't getting mocked. That was fucking stupid. If he wants to make the point that we should still invest in coal as an energy source but don't tell me coal is "clean."

Problem is that both of them think there's such a thing as "clean coal."

336 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:46:51pm

L. A. Times: Fact check: Romney repeats erroneous claims on healthcare

[Link: www.latimes.com...]

337 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:47:41pm

re: #333 HappyWarrior

Many of Mitt's statements and positions tonight are mock-worthy.

But apparently Mock was left off the menu.

338 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:47:41pm

re: #335 Targetpractice

Problem is that both of them think there's such a thing as "clean coal."

Yeah, shame.

339 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:48:54pm

Ol' Clean Coal was a merry old soul and a merry old soul was he.
He called for his pipe, he called for his bowl, and he called for his lobbyists three...
//

340 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:49:02pm

re: #338 HappyWarrior

Two words: Ohio, Pennsylvania.

341 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:49:07pm

re: #333 HappyWarrior

Surprised the clean coal thing isn't getting mocked. That was fucking stupid. If he wants to make the point that we should still invest in coal as an energy source but don't tell me coal is "clean."

Some coal is cleaner than other coal because it has less sulfur or arsenic or other impurities than the dirty coal has. That's all it means.

342 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:49:12pm
343 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:50:24pm

re: #340 freetoken

Two words: Ohio, Pennsylvania.

Beat me to the punch...

344 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:50:47pm

So it looks like Intrade is starting to stabilize around 65 for Obama and 35 for Romney.

DEATH OF PROGRESSIVISM!

345 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:51:08pm

re: #340 freetoken

Two words: Ohio, Pennsylvania.

Yeah what am I thinking. Sorry long day.

346 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:51:37pm

re: #344 JamesWI

So it looks like Intrade is starting to stabilize around 65 for Obama and 35 for Romney.

DEATH OF PROGRESSIVISM!

Bet on Romney, you stupid lefties ;).

347 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:52:17pm

release the biden.

348 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:52:29pm

re: #344 JamesWI

So it looks like Intrade is starting to stabilize around 65 for Obama and 35 for Romney.

DEATH OF PROGRESSIVISM!

I figure we'll see a tightening in the polls between now and the second debate, as folks get word of mouth that Romney "won," even as the campaign ads roll out.

349 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:52:54pm

re: #298 austin_blue

Look, I'm on the Obama team. I've sent close to $1,000 to him this cycle, and tonight was disappointing.

That is all.

The President is nowhere near finished; Mitt more or less baffled everyone with bullshit. Besides, actions speak louder than words and the President's track record is pretty good.

Keep the faith, brothers and sisters...

350 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:52:56pm

re: #346 HappyWarrior

Bet on Romney, you stupid lefties ;).

Might as well short sell him. It's not like Mitt's going to do much better.

351 diamonda2u  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:53:02pm

Makes some interesting observations

[Link: talkingpointsmemo.com...]

352 prairiefire  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:53:46pm

re: #347 SpaceJesus

release the biden.

Lol. Night, lizards.

353 austin_blue  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:54:13pm

Adios, Lizardi, work tomorrow.

354 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:54:35pm

And don't forget this one minor point..

Although Mitt had a rough night sleeping thanks to those horrible loud train whistles, Obama actually had to go to work all day before he came to the debate.

355 diamonda2u  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:54:38pm

re: #336 jaunte

L. A. Times: Fact check: Romney repeats erroneous claims on healthcare

[Link: www.latimes.com...]

Telling you, I'm wondering if by tomorrow night Mitt will be dubbed the man to lie or change his position most in a debate

356 Barflytom  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:54:51pm

re: #215 AntonSirius

Indeed. This is the best possible time to short Romney. He won't get much higher than this.

He's at about 35 now, and was around 40 until the rather discouraging polls and ludicrously slanted media coverage really kicked in recently.

If you're going to short him at 30-something, you're a braver man than I am.

357 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:55:29pm

Looks like the media wanted to make sure they got that "horserace" narrative no matter what tonight:

So the CNN poll now getting spread around everywhere was based on a group of people who favored Romney to a degree not seen outside of the reddest states in the nation.

358 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:55:32pm

re: #351 diamonda2u

Makes some interesting observations

[Link: talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Indeed, he's saying pretty much what a lot of liberals are now that the initial shock has worn off: Yeah, Obama did poorly, but Romney overextended himself in a very bad way. Even if the TPers don't abandon his ass, revealing how much of their talk about "purity" is BS, the campaign ads that can be written from tonight are pure gold.

359 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:55:50pm

NPR: Romney Goes On Offense, Pays For It In First Wave Of Fact Checks
[Link: www.npr.org...]

360 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:55:54pm
361 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:55:55pm

re: #356 Barflytom

He's at about 35 now, and was around 40 until the rather discouraging polls and ludicrously slanted media coverage really kicked in recently.

If you're going to short him at 30-something, you're a braver man than I am.

Fuck off EDL stooge. how's that for American hospitality?

362 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:56:16pm

re: #356 Barflytom

He's at about 35 now, and was around 40 until the rather discouraging polls and ludicrously slanted media coverage really kicked in recently.

If you're going to short him at 30-something, you're a braver man than I am.

The "ludicrously slanted media".....or the 47% video....

Boring troll is boring.

363 aagcobb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:57:17pm

re: #325 Targetpractice

Indeed, if some can't understand the despair, it is because they have a higher opinion of the American electorate than others. I'm not ready to believe that they can see through all the bullshit Willard weaved tonight to realize that his "win" was meaningless.

Democratic Presidential Candidates have won the popular vote in four of the last 5 presidential elections, and every four years the national demographic changes a bit more in their favor. Have a little faith.

364 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:57:34pm

"First of all, I don't have a $5 trillion tax cut," Romney lied.

365 diamonda2u  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:57:52pm

re: #359 jaunte

NPR: Romney Goes On Offense, Pays For It In First Wave Of Fact Checks
[Link: www.npr.org...]

Ryan is about to become a verb... And Mitt is gonna find out what it means ...lol

366 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:58:15pm

Wingers are nothing if not predictable.
Don't have to be a mind reader.

367 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:59:02pm

re: #360 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Could this be akin to in football terms to an illegal block in the back on the punt or kickoff return? I mean yeah Romney looked better tonight, I won't lie there but he also lied and contradicted himself too and the fact checkers have already gotten on his ass about that. Besides as I said, one can think Romney won without thinking this means he's the better leader. I highly doubt this means people who were disgusted by the 47% comments are suddenly going to think gee whiz, Mitt will be a great leader now. Some, maybe but most, I highly doubt that.

368 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:00:40pm

re: #367 HappyWarrior

Could this be akin to in football terms to an illegal block in the back on the punt or kickoff return? I mean yeah Romney looked better tonight, I won't lie there but he also lied and contradicted himself too and the fact checkers have already gotten on his ass about that. Besides as I said, one can think Romney won without thinking this means he's the better leader. I highly doubt this means people who were disgusted by the 47% comments are suddenly going to think gee whiz, Mitt will be a great leader now. Some, maybe but most, I highly doubt that.

If you've seen the 47% vidoe, you know he's lying. Anything he says will be an attempt to reset from that. I know the MSM is more than willing to help him and that's my only concern.

369 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:00:54pm
370 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:00:58pm

Well, enough excitement for one night. Think I'm gonna get a few hours of rack time.

Hold my calls.

371 diamonda2u  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:01:37pm

Later lizards, it's been fun

372 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:01:39pm

re: #359 jaunte

NPR: Romney Goes On Offense, Pays For It In First Wave Of Fact Checks
[Link: www.npr.org...]

i remember the ecstatic republican reaction after lyin' ryan's barnburner lie-a-minute speech

373 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:02:10pm

It is fun watching the Intrade stocks live. 4 minutes ago, Obama was down at 65.4. Now he's back up to 66.7.

What the hell happened in those 4 minutes?//

374 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:02:44pm

re: #368 moderatelyradicalliberal

If you've seen the 47% vidoe, you know he's lying. Anything he says will be an attempt to reset from that. I know the MSM is more than willing to help him and that's my only concern.

The 47% clip I think made my Mom more eager to vote than I've ever seen her. She took what he said quite personally and I don't blame her. Mitt the Asshole was basically saying she engaged in victimhood and just sucked off the government tit.

375 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:03:14pm

re: #373 JamesWI

It is fun watching the Intrade stocks live. 4 minutes ago, Obama was down at 65.4. Now he's back up to 66.7.

What the hell happened in those 4 minutes?//

Romney yelled at the conductor of one of the trains at his hotel.

376 The Mongoose  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:03:32pm

Chris Matthews is not happy. [Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

377 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:04:05pm

re: #369 jaunte

[Embedded content]

That is a great point.. It is a GOP mantra that the government is powerless to create jobs, yet now comes Mitt saying if I'm President I will create jobs.. hmm.

378 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:04:44pm

re: #376 The Mongoose

Chris Matthews is not happy. [Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

He needs to calm the fuck down. He also suffers from Lefty Hysteria Syndrome. Rachael, Ed, they all do over there at MSNBC.

379 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:04:58pm

re: #373 JamesWI

It is fun watching the Intrade stocks live. 4 minutes ago, Obama was down at 65.4. Now he's back up to 66.7.

What the hell happened in those 4 minutes?//

The boredom coma wore off when Romney's lies slapped everyone in the face.

380 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:05:01pm

re: #377 Mich-again

That is a great point.. It is a GOP mantra that the government is powerless to create jobs, yet now comes Mitt saying if I'm President I will create jobs.. hmm.

Who was it that said something like Republicans always say government is inefficient and then get elected and prove it? I'm probably paraphrasing that quote mind you.

381 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:06:15pm

I didn't realize InTrade had their own electoral map, with odds on each state.

[Link: www.intrade.com...]

Right now, Florida is their only toss-up.

382 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:08:41pm

nate the great silver

But here’s the bad news for Mr. Romney: no candidate who trailed by as much he did heading into the first debate went on to win the election.

[Link: fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com...]

383 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:09:26pm

re: #381 JamesWI

I didn't realize InTrade had their own electoral map, with odds on each state.

[Link: www.intrade.com...]

Right now, Florida is their only toss-up.

I didn't either. Way I look at it, Mitt still has a tough road to overcome. The only state that stat-nerds are saying that went for Obama in 2008 that they think will almost certainly go his way is Indiana. In short, Mitt needs a lot to go right for him and a lot to go wrong for Obama. Doing decently at the debates tonight helped him I concede but it wasn't like he had the debate performance for the ages and Obama had the worst one of all time. Plus there are other factors at play too.

384 Barflytom  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:09:32pm

re: #349 Gert Fröbe

The President is nowhere near finished; Mitt more or less baffled everyone with bullshit. Besides, actions speak louder than words and the President's track record is pretty good.

Keep the faith, brothers and sisters...

A pretty good record ? Compared to the Captain of the Titanic perhaps.

385 The Mongoose  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:09:42pm

re: #382 engineer cat

nate the great silver

But here’s the bad news for Mr. Romney: no candidate who trailed by as much he did heading into the first debate went on to win the election.

[Link: fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com...]

Mr. Silver is right. The president remains the favorite. But it will tighten after tonight.

386 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:10:05pm

re: #384 Barflytom

Boring troll is still boring.

387 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:10:33pm

re: #384 Barflytom

A pretty good record ? Compared to the Captain of the Titanic perhaps.

Always with the negative waves Moriarity. Always with the negative waves.

388 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:11:04pm

re: #380 HappyWarrior

Who was it that said something like Republicans always say government is inefficient and then get elected and prove it? I'm probably paraphrasing that quote mind you.

P.J. O'Rourke:

"The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work, and then they get elected and prove it."

389 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:12:27pm

re: #384 Barflytom

A pretty good record ? Compared to the Captain of the Titanic perhaps.

Ha!
Aren't you the clever little wanker!

390 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:12:40pm

re: #388 Lidane

P.J. O'Rourke:

Ah thanks, I thought that was him.

391 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:12:52pm

re: #378 moderatelyradicalliberal

He needs to calm the fuck down. He also suffers from Lefty Hysteria Syndrome. Rachael, Ed, they all do over there at MSNBC.

Yeah, my wife walked in in the middle of Ed's rant right after the debate ended, and she asked 'Who is this guy and why won't he shut the fuck up?'

Lefty Drama Queens. They want Obama to behave just like the people whose behavior they hate.

392 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:13:20pm

re: #391 makeitstop

Yeah, my wife walked in in the middle of Ed's rant right after the debate ended, and she asked 'Who is this guy and why won't he shut the fuck up?'

Lefty Drama Queens. They want Obama to behave just like the people whose behavior they hate.

Friend of mine calls em Lefty Freepers. I like what LGF's own Gus calls them more though, Emoprogs.

393 Barflytom  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:13:57pm

re: #298 austin_blue

Look, I'm on the Obama team. I've sent close to $1,000 to him this cycle, and tonight was disappointing.

That is all.

I can think of better things to do with a thousand bucks.
You could light ten cigars with $100 bills for example.

394 palomino  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:14:24pm

re: #376 The Mongoose

Chris Matthews is not happy. [Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

Probably because Obama had all sorts of weapons to throw at Romney but didn't. The 47% comment, the emergency room comment, the flip flops and lies. But Obama didn't effectively communicate these things, he mainly avoided them. Why I have no idea, but it seemed like a bad strategy.

And he missed other easy targets on social security and healthcare, failing to point out Romney's lies.

395 The Mongoose  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:14:34pm

re: #393 Barflytom

I can think of better things to do with a thousand bucks.
You could light ten cigars with $100 bills for example.

Well, now I know what I'm doing this weekend.

396 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:16:02pm

re: #394 palomino

Probably because Obama had all sorts of weapons to throw at Romney but didn't. The 47% comment, the emergency room comment, the flip flops and lies. But Obama didn't effectively communicate these things, he mainly avoided them. Why I have no idea, but it seemed like a bad strategy.

And he missed other easy targets on social security and healthcare, failing to point out Romney's lies.

I think they're going to make an ad out of some of them. That's my best guess. That's a better venue than the debates to point out someone's flip flop act.

397 Barflytom  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:16:06pm

re: #361 Mich-again

Fuck off EDL stooge. how's that for American hospitality?

I take great offence at that.

I'm not English.

398 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:17:16pm

who was the last republican president who's term didn't end in a serious recession? hmmm... let me think...

399 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:18:47pm

re: #398 engineer cat

who was the last republican president who's term didn't end in a serious recession? hmmm... let me think...

Want to say Eisenhower or Nixon. Know it wasn't either St. Reagan or the Bushes. Either way it was one of the more moderate Republicans who actually thought fiscal responsibility meant something other than tax and domestic spending cuts above all else.

400 palomino  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:19:50pm

re: #396 HappyWarrior

I think they're going to make an ad out of some of them. That's my best guess. That's a better venue than the debates to point out someone's flip flop act.

But Obama was off his game tonight. He didn't have one debate anywhere near this bad against McCain. And Obama was bad from the start, so it wasn't something Romney said that threw him off. He was just out of it tonight, for whatever reason.

If Romney mounts a comeback, the media narrative will be that it began tonight.

401 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:20:37pm

re: #396 HappyWarrior

I think they're going to make an ad out of some of them. That's my best guess. That's a better venue than the debates to point out someone's flip flop act.

That's my guess too. Yeah, that strategy sends the professional left into hyperventilating fits, but oh well. Romney's on camera lying his ass off to the whole country and blatantly flipping on everything he's been running on all year. Team Obama doesn't even have to do anything but use Mitt's own words.

402 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:21:39pm
403 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:21:56pm

re: #396 HappyWarrior

I think they're going to make an ad out of some of them. That's my best guess. That's a better venue than the debates to point out someone's flip flop act.

Yeah, it's impossible to corner Romney in the debate when he's willing to lie about EVERYTHING.

Because the truth is, Obama DID point out Romney's flip-flopping, multiple times. He hammered him on the tax cuts for a good half-hour. He attacked him on the blatant lie about coverage for pre-existing conditions. But all Romney had to do was say "Nuh uh, I didn't say that!" and without an active moderator who has research on hand, no one's going to call him on it.

That's Lehrer's real sin, which is getting lost in all the Lehrer backlash, and the backlash to the backlash. You don't want your moderator to be the story, but he also shouldn't just allow people to lie indiscriminately to his face.

404 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:22:11pm

re: #401 Lidane

That's my guess too. Yeah, that strategy sends the professional left into hyperventilating fits, but oh well. Romney's on camera lying his ass off to the whole country and blatantly flipping on everything he's been running on all year. Team Obama doesn't even have to do anything but use Mitt's own words.

They also have Mitt acting like a complete jackass during the debate too. He came off like a prick to me. I admit, I'm biased but he seemed that way.

405 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:22:55pm

re: #400 palomino

But Obama was off his game tonight. He didn't have one debate anywhere near this bad against McCain. And Obama was bad from the start, so it wasn't something Romney said that threw him off. He was just out of it tonight, for whatever reason.

If Romney mounts a comeback, the media narrative will be that it began tonight.

He was stressed by something, but I don't think it was Romney. Unlike Romney, Obama has a real job with pressing shit going on. Something else had his mind. I will admit to that. Not a good performance, but the hysteria is too much.

But I also expect Romney to get cocky and for Obama to bring his A-game now that he knows Romney's strategy is to lie comfortably. I expect lots of ads about those lies coming up.

406 Mattand  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:23:25pm

re: #391 makeitstop

Yeah, my wife walked in in the middle of Ed's rant right after the debate ended, and she asked 'Who is this guy and why won't he shut the fuck up?'

Lefty Drama Queens. They want Obama to behave just like the people whose behavior they hate.

Rachel isn't that bad. The other guys irritate me, though.

407 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:23:41pm

re: #403 JamesWI

Yeah, it's impossible to corner Romney in the debate when he's willing to lie about EVERYTHING.

Because the truth is, Obama DID point out Romney's flip-flopping, multiple times. He hammered him on the tax cuts for a good half-hour. He attacked him on the blatant lie about coverage for pre-existing conditions. But all Romney had to do was say "Nuh uh, I didn't say that!" and without an active moderator who has research on hand, no one's going to call him on it.

That's Lehrer's real sin, which is getting lost in all the Lehrer backlash, and the backlash to the backlash. You don't want your moderator to be the story, but he also shouldn't just allow people to lie indiscriminately to his face.

I really want the lie about pre-existing coverage hit hard. I have a heart condition. I would probably be denied insurance if I wasn't allowed to stay on my mom's plan. Mitt's such a goddamn liar. He actually angers me with his bullshit.

408 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:24:52pm

re: #406 Mattand

Rachel isn't that bad. The other guys irritate me, though.

Rachael can be a terrible concern troll when she wants. She spent a good year acting as if Obama didn't really want to repeal DADT.

409 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:24:56pm

re: #406 Mattand

Rachel isn't that bad. The other guys irritate me, though.

I cannot stand Ed Schultz. Really, I am a pretty pro labor guy but Schultz's populist act annoys me. As a rule though, I am not a fan of most political show hosts because nearly all of them seem to think their words are the most important thing on the planet. Doesn't matter if that person is a right wing asshole like Limbaugh or a left wing moonbat.

410 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:25:26pm

Turkey/Syria exchange artillery fire.
It's a very, very dangerous situation," Clinton said. "And all responsible nations need to band together to persuade the Assad regime to have a cease-fire, quit assaulting their own people and begin the process of a political transition."

FTA:
"This is yet another example of the depraved behavior of the Syrian regime, and why it must go," said Pentagon press secretary George Little. "We regret the loss of life in Turkey, a strong ally, and continue to monitor the situation closely."


A statement issued by a U.N. spokesperson on behalf of Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said the secretary general "expresses his deepest concern at the incident" and "extends his sincere condolences to the Government and people of Turkey over this tragic loss of life." The statement added that Ban "has repeatedly warned that the ongoing militarization of the conflict in Syria is leading to tragic results for the Syrian people."

President was probably preoccupied.
Just a guess.

411 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:26:34pm

re: #399 HappyWarrior

Want to say Eisenhower or Nixon. Know it wasn't either St. Reagan or the Bushes. Either way it was one of the more moderate Republicans who actually thought fiscal responsibility meant something other than tax and domestic spending cuts above all else.

definitely true, but my point is really that anybody who calls obama a failure because the economy hasn't truly recovered yet would by that standard have to call bush I and II really shockingly miserable failures, if they were to be consistent and honest

but wingnut morons aren't exactly known for being consistent and honest

412 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:26:52pm
413 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:27:51pm

re: #411 engineer cat

definitely true, but my point is really that anybody who calls obama a failure because the economy hasn't truly recovered yet would by that standard have to call bush I and II really shockingly miserable failures, if they were to be consistent and honest

but wingnut morons aren't exactly known for being consistent and honest

I know. I still laugh at the people who believe that Republican Party is fiscally conservative. It's not and hasn't been since well before many of us were born.

414 Barflytom  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:27:53pm

re: #405 moderatelyradicalliberal

He was stressed by something, but I don't think it was Romney. Unlike Romney, Obama has a real job with pressing shit going on. Something else had his mind. I will admit to that. Not a good performance, but the hysteria is too much.

But I also expect Romney to get cocky and for Obama to bring his A-game now that he knows Romney's strategy is to lie comfortably. I expect lots of ads about those lies coming up.

You forgot to add "for the first time in his life".

415 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:29:01pm

re: #414 Barflytom

You forgot to add "for the first time in his life".

Yeah because being a United States Senator and a state senator before that isn't a real job. Nice try though, you dumb fuck.

416 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:30:09pm

re: #414 Barflytom

You forgot to add "for the first time in his life".

Fuck you.

417 Mattand  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:30:30pm

re: #403 JamesWI

Yeah, it's impossible to corner Romney in the debate when he's willing to lie about EVERYTHING.

Because the truth is, Obama DID point out Romney's flip-flopping, multiple times. He hammered him on the tax cuts for a good half-hour. He attacked him on the blatant lie about coverage for pre-existing conditions. But all Romney had to do was say "Nuh uh, I didn't say that!" and without an active moderator who has research on hand, no one's going to call him on it.

That's Lehrer's real sin, which is getting lost in all the Lehrer backlash, and the backlash to the backlash. You don't want your moderator to be the story, but he also shouldn't just allow people to lie indiscriminately to his face.

There's a term used when debating creationist called the Gish Gallop, named after the guy who became notorious for it. Basically, you just spew out as much nonsense as possible in your allotted time. Your opponent gets overwhelmed, because it takes time to explain things rationally, as opposed to throwing down lie after lie.

I didn't see the debate, but it sounds like Romney Gish Galloped all over the place. It also sounds like Obama may have been caught flat footed by it, and that Lerher, as befitting a MSM debate moderator, just sat there and did nothing.

418 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:30:50pm

How come all the good trolls come when I'm not here.
This one has no meat.

419 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:30:55pm

Oh and before we hear "community organizer" that is a real job. Just because right wing morons loathe what they do for a living doesn't make it any less of a real job.

420 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:31:35pm

re: #403 JamesWI

The reality of these "debates" is that they are infomercials, and not real debates of the classic type found in college debating contests.

As commercial rhetoric, the idea is to leave the audience with a brand name and a slogan - Pepsi, the real thing and so forth.

Who made the best infomercial? What was left in the viewers' minds?

421 Mattand  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:31:51pm

re: #408 moderatelyradicalliberal

Rachael can be a terrible concern troll when she wants. She spent a good year acting as if Obama didn't really want to repeal DADT.

I can't blame her on that, as she had an obvious velociraptor in that fight.

422 simoom  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:32:07pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

I don't agree that "Obama lost." I saw a complete wash, that's not going to convince anyone who isn't already convinced.

This was basically my impression as well. Ignoring substance, Romney's delivery of his memorized talking points was slicker, though there were a couple of points were he was 30-seconds into an answer and backtracked, for example here:

MR. ROMNEY: Well, Jim, our seniors depend on these programs. And I know any time we talk about entitlements, people become concerned that something’s going to happen that’s going to change their life for the worst, and the answer is, neither the president nor I are proposing any changes for any current retirees or near retirees, either to Social Security or Medicare. So if you’re 60 or around 60 or older, you don’t need to listen any further.

But for younger people, we need to talk about what changes are going to be occurring.

Oh, I just thought about one, and that is in fact I was wrong when I said the president isn’t proposing any changes for current retirees. In fact, he is on Medicare. On Social Security, he’s not.

I don't notice any f'ups that the President will need to defend, where as Romney contradicted half his prior stump speeches and platform proposals.

The twitterverse and the media were beside themselves that Obama didn't raise the 47% comments or Bain, though living in a swing-state I see his ads hitting those topics on youtube & tv constantly, so I'm torn as to the tactical value in raising them out of the blue. My only concern is I'm a firm believer in the media's ability put their hand on the scales and massively affect perceptions of events, and they're so over the top in their critiques of the debate that perhaps that will have an effect. ATM I'm not particularly worried though.

423 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:32:17pm

re: #415 HappyWarrior

Yeah because being a United States Senator and a state senator before that isn't a real job. Nice try though, you dumb fuck.

Lawyer? Not a real job. Law school professor? Not a real job either.

Don't you know? REAL jobs are the ones where you outsource jobs to China and hide your money offshore.

424 Ming  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:33:06pm

I'm afraid I must agree with Andrew Sullivan, that Bill Clinton did an excellent job at the Democratic National Convention defending President Obama's record, and President Obama could have done a better job defending his own record tonight.

I admire Obama's seriousness, and I'm appalled by Romney's constant flip-flops and lies. But I wish Obama had shown more energy, more passion. Strangely enough, compared with Obama's flat tone, one could actually say that at least Romney CARED enough to go out there and lie (a bizarre sentiment, to emphasize the point).

In the Democratic National Convention last month, both the President and the First Lady, and former President Clinton, really showed that they cared, and I think that greatly affected the presidential race. I think they need to show us AGAIN and AGAIN that they really care. I hope it's not too late.

425 Mattand  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:33:18pm

re: #414 Barflytom

You forgot to add "for the first time in his life".

I generally don't down ding, but man, you're being an ass.

426 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:34:42pm

re: #425 Mattand

He's just trolling and trying to get a rise out of people.

427 The Mongoose  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:34:50pm

re: #424 Ming

I'm afraid I must agree with Andrew Sullivan, that Bill Clinton did an excellent job at the Democratic National Convention defending President Obama's record, and President Obama could have done a better job defending his own record tonight.

I admire Obama's seriousness, and I'm appalled by Romney's constant flip-flops and lies. But I wish Obama had shown more energy, more passion. Strangely enough, compared with Obama's flat tone, one could actually say that at least Romney CARED enough to go out there and lie (a bizarre sentiment, to emphasize the point).

In the Democratic National Convention last month, both the President and the First Lady, and former President Clinton, really showed that they cared, and I think that greatly affected the presidential race. I think they need to show us AGAIN and AGAIN that they really care. I hope it's not too late.

Sullivan was pretty harsh tonight (not too surprising given the source, but still): "How is Obama's closing statement so fucking sad, confused and lame? He choked. He lost. He may even have lost the election tonight. "

I agree he choked and he lost the debate. The election? Hardly.

428 palomino  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:36:16pm

re: #414 Barflytom

You forgot to add "for the first time in his life".

That line was tired back in 2008. You're a total fucking dead ender.

429 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:37:09pm

re: #427 The Mongoose

Sully is a drama queen, just like Tweety and Ed Shultz and the rest of the hyperventilating pearl clutchers tonight.

A single lackluster debate isn't going to be that big of a deal.

430 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:37:12pm

re: #414 Barflytom

You forgot to add "for the first time in his life".

You're not very good at this, are you?
Try being original.
Or does the Kool-aid prevent this?

431 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:37:24pm

re: #423 Lidane

Lawyer? Not a real job. Law school professor? Not a real job either.

Don't you know? REAL jobs are the ones where you outsource jobs to China and hide your money offshore.

Yeah. Seriously fuck this private sector jobs are superior to public service jobs mindset that I've seen from the right wing since Obama was nominated for president. Would they attack a guy who for his career served in the Marines like that? That's a government job too, right? Oh wait cheap shots are only reserved for civilian employees because they know attacking lifelong military members makes them look like classless jackasses.

432 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:37:27pm

re: #421 Mattand

I can't blame her on that, as she had an obvious velociraptor in that fight.

My point is many of the people who are bitching the most barely have Obama's back when it counts. They are fair weather supporters and always have been. Obama's allowed to have an off moment for goodness sake. He fought his way into a solid lead and odds of winning that many would argue he shouldn't have and many of these emoprogs who are screaming the loudest didn't help him do it.

433 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:38:44pm

re: #426 Lidane

He's just trolling and trying to get a rise out of people.

I really don't see why he hasn't been blocked (and I'm not saying this due only to his comments tonight). I mean, this is ALL he does on this site. Once every few weeks-to-a-month, he comes on, trolls, and fills up the bottom comments. It's obvious what he's doing, and he's never going to add anything to the debate like even someone like DF would do.

He's simply a troll, and given that his account is over 7 years old with just about 200 comments, he's almost certainly a sock.

434 palomino  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:39:42pm

re: #427 The Mongoose

Sullivan was pretty harsh tonight (not too surprising given the source, but still): "How is Obama's closing statement so fucking sad, confused and lame? He choked. He lost. He may even have lost the election tonight. "

I agree he choked and he lost the debate. The election? Hardly.

Especially the closing statement, which can basically be written beforehand. It's not a point by point refutation of the previous hour and a half that has to be extemporized. Pretty astonishing that it was so weak.

435 Barflytom  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:39:42pm

re: #415 HappyWarrior

Yeah because being a United States Senator and a state senator before that isn't a real job. Nice try though, you dumb fuck.

Indeed. The country would fall apart without people who turn up to vote "present", file lawsuits for ACORN, extract money from government for useless projects, give pointless lectures on the equal protection clause to the exclusion of everything else in the constitution, and funnel money to their wives' employers to pay for their 300 grand a year no-show jobs.

436 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:40:06pm

re: #424 Ming

I'm afraid I must agree with Andrew Sullivan, that Bill Clinton did an excellent job at the Democratic National Convention defending President Obama's record, and President Obama could have done a better job defending his own record tonight.

I admire Obama's seriousness, and I'm appalled by Romney's constant flip-flops and lies. But I wish Obama had shown more energy, more passion. Strangely enough, compared with Obama's flat tone, one could actually say that at least Romney CARED enough to go out there and lie (a bizarre sentiment, to emphasize the point).

In the Democratic National Convention last month, both the President and the First Lady, and former President Clinton, really showed that they cared, and I think that greatly affected the presidential race. I think they need to show us AGAIN and AGAIN that they really care. I hope it's not too late.

See this is what I mean by the double standard for Democrats and Republicans. How can the standard for caring possibly be higher for the president then for Romney? If it's not too late after the 47% tape then how can it be too late after one debate? Good Lord people.

437 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:40:19pm

Weigel weighs in:

What Losers Look Like

This is what losing looks like: five stoic strategists for the Obama campaign camped out in the spin room. They do not deny that Mitt Romney just beat the president on all the points that count in TV debates. How can they, when even the foreign press, heavy in accent and fond of existential questions, keeps asking why the president blew it? In one corner stands David Plouffe, the president’s chief strategist, fielding question after question about optics.

“Why wasn’t the president more aggressive?” asks a dark-suited man with a Swedish accent.

“The president did exactly what he had to do,” says Plouffe. “He talked in very deep specifics about the economy, about jobs, about Medicare. That’s why he had a good debate tonight.”

“Would you agree that he was too low-key?” asks a Japanese reporter.

“No!” says Plouffe. “I would not agree with that at all! He did what he had to do. He had a very clear message to the American people.”

[...]

438 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:41:45pm

re: #373 JamesWI

It is fun watching the Intrade stocks live. 4 minutes ago, Obama was down at 65.4. Now he's back up to 66.7.

What the hell happened in those 4 minutes?//

There's been a lot of weird action on Intrade in the last few days. The vast majority of new Romney shares and shorting on Obama was coming from brand new accounts, now there's a craze as the debate reviews drive things. A bunch of guys who bought early on when Obama was in the mid 50's were happy to sell their shares and cement some profits.

Giving credence to the idea that the forces at play aren't exactly organic is the fact that there's a ton of profit taking going on between the 67.5 to 65 zone this evening, a lot of people are making bank buying low and selling high (wash, rinse, repeat.) On the Romney end the buyers seem more ideological some guy just bought 4011 shares @ $3.32. That's kind of ridiculous, anybody with that much money to move actually following the market would have bought in a few days ago when Romney was swimming around 23.

439 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:42:13pm

re: #435 Barflytom

Indeed. The country would fall apart without people who turn up to vote "present", file lawsuits for ACORN, extract money from government for useless projects, give pointless lectures on the equal protection clause to the exclusion of everything else in the constitution, and funnel money to their wives' employers to pay for their 300 grand a year no-show jobs.

You don't even live here so what would you know?

440 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:42:50pm

re: #437 freetoken

Weigel weighs in:

What Losers Look Like

It was a bad night. But bad nights don't lose elections. Doom and gloom does.

441 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:45:01pm

re: #435 Barflytom

2008 called. It wants its failed talking points back.

442 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:45:14pm

well, this evening has been a big excitement that i'm sure we'll remember for at least two news cycles

something else that happened recently: voter suppression law suspended for this election in pennsylvania - sorry, mitt

443 palomino  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:45:50pm

re: #435 Barflytom

Indeed. The country would fall apart without people who turn up to vote "present", file lawsuits for ACORN, extract money from government for useless projects, give pointless lectures on the equal protection clause to the exclusion of everything else in the constitution, and funnel money to their wives' employers to pay for their 300 grand a year no-show jobs.

Yes, he does the same things that other politicians in both parties do. That makes him a complete asshole?

Please, tell us more about Solyndra. It's so important, just like Whitewater.

444 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:45:55pm

re: #440 moderatelyradicalliberal

It was a bad night. But bad nights don't lose elections. Doom and gloom does.

It will only be bad if they let it be.
A lot was learned about Romney's approach and what makes him tick.
Character still counts.

445 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:46:02pm

re: #437 freetoken

Weigel weighs in:

What Losers Look Like

So Weigel is hitting the fainting couch too?

My surprise, let me show you it.

446 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:48:52pm

re: #445 Lidane

So Weigel is hitting the fainting couch too?

Well, at least it's not the casting couch.

447 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:49:46pm

re: #445 Lidane

So Weigel is hitting the fainting couch too?

My surprise, let me show you it.

This shit needs to be over by tomorrow. I'm serious. The idea that one night wiped away everything else, in the past is nonsense. Romney is not a different person or candidate tonight then he was before. Now the president knows his strategy lie, lie and lie some more.

448 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:51:11pm

I'll be more concerned if no one flips Mitt's lies back into his face.

449 Mattand  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:51:19pm

re: #432 moderatelyradicalliberal

My point is many of the people who are bitching the most barely have Obama's back when it counts. They are fair weather supporters and always have been. Obama's allowed to have an off moment for goodness sake. He fought his way into a solid lead and odds of winning that many would argue he shouldn't have and many of these emoprogs who are screaming the loudest didn't help him do it.

I listen to Maddow fairly often. Being liberal and critical of Obama isn't the same as being a fair weather supporter.

450 allegro  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:51:50pm

I'm not calling this a Romney win - at least not before we see the fallout tomorrow. Romney was certainly more aggressive and appeared slicker in his presentation. Obama flatter and measured, as usual. He did ramble a couple of times. He did answer a couple of the biggest lies the best he could. Then Romney repeated those lies a few more times along with a few more in a string -
the Gish Gallop is a perfect description. No way Obama could answer them all and he can't just keep repeating corrections without looking whiny.

Obama is gifted at looking at the long game. I'm sure he's not happy tonight but I don't think he was damaged at all by this one debate. Factcheckers are already streaming and not in Mitt's favor. Big Bird is trending. Heh. Mitt wasn't liked going into the debate and I doubt he is any better liked now. Dem ads that come out in the next few days will be merciless.

451 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:52:37pm

bad news for mitt: two more debates

452 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:53:14pm

re: #451 engineer cat

bad news for mitt: two more debates

And one of them is on "distraction" or as we say in layman's terms, foreign policy.

453 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:55:59pm

re: #452 HappyWarrior

And one of them is on "distraction" or as we say in layman's terms, foreign policy.

The other is an open forum or townhall. Obama's good in those. He liked to talk to people.

454 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:56:14pm

re: #450 allegro

... Mitt wasn't liked going into the debate and I doubt he is any better liked now. ...

MANY WATCH DEBATE; SOME ARE PLEASED, FEW ARE MOVED

[...]

At a gathering at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles, geology major and first-time Republican voter Charles Epting was himself grinning widely after the debate, believing that his candidate hit a homerun.

"Where Romney really set himself apart is he wasn't the stereotype of this old, rich white guy," said Epting, 19. He especially praised Romney's vow to cut public broadcasting by joking that he loved Big Bird and Jim Lehrer, the former PBS newsman who moderated Wednesday night's exchange. Epting believed that helped show that Romney can use humor and charm to voice his convictions. "Tonight I think he was the more charismatic candidate."

[...]

Well, Charles Epting liked him.

455 Barflytom  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:56:23pm

re: #433 JamesWI

I really don't see why he hasn't been blocked (and I'm not saying this due only to his comments tonight). I mean, this is ALL he does on this site. Once every few weeks-to-a-month, he comes on, trolls, and fills up the bottom comments. It's obvious what he's doing, and he's never going to add anything to the debate like even someone like DF would do.

He's simply a troll, and given that his account is over 7 years old with just about 200 comments, he's almost certainly a sock.

You don't get out much, do you ?
My views on Obama are actually quite moderate compared to about half the patrons in an average bar. I don't "hate" the guy, I just find it astonishing that people are taken in by him. He's roughly equivalent to a Neil Kinnock type, who even us Brits were sensible enough not to put in office.
I've seen how much damage a "moderate" left-wing government can do.
One of the things that appealed to me about the USA is, or was, the general suspicion of big government and attitude of self-reliance which Britain has mostly lost.
If he's re-elected, then this country ain't the same place it was when I came here.

456 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 10:59:32pm

re: #397 Barflytom

I take great offence at that.

I'm not English.

re: #455 Barflytom

You don't get out much, do you ?
My views on Obama are actually quite moderate compared to about half the patrons in an average bar. I don't "hate" the guy, I just find it astonishing that people are taken in by him. He's roughly equivalent to a Neil Kinnock type, who even us Brits were sensible enough not to put in office.

457 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:00:24pm

re: #454 freetoken

MANY WATCH DEBATE; SOME ARE PLEASED, FEW ARE MOVED

Well, Charles Epting liked him.

Heh. The idealism of youth.

458 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:01:10pm

re: #455 Barflytom

let's see how you feel about it if you ever happened to find yourself in the position of having an insurance company deny you coverage because of a pre-existing condition or lifetime limits and ending up watching your savings drain away while languishing on a hospital bed connected to life support

459 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:01:12pm

re: #456 JamesWI

re: #455 Barflytom

He's probably either Irish, Scottish, or Welsh.

460 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:01:52pm

re: #453 moderatelyradicalliberal

The other is an open forum or townhall. Obama's good in those. He liked to talk to people.

Yes, and there's another thing, the debate focused heavily on jobs/deficit tonight. These are two of the few issues that Romney has actually polled close to and in some cases better than Obama in. I'd like Romney to be asked about women's health issues at the next debate given the moves by Republican legislatures in the past couple years. Gay marriage too given that he's flopped on gay rights over the yeras too.

461 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:02:08pm

re: #459 Gert Fröbe

He's probably either Irish, Scottish, or Welsh.

True. Or he's just full of shit. Most of his other comments lead me to believe that's a strong possibility.

462 Barflytom  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:04:38pm

re: #443 palomino

Yes, he does the same things that other politicians in both parties do. That makes him a complete asshole?

Please, tell us more about Solyndra. It's so important, just like Whitewater.

Well, losing more money on one crony deal than Romney made in his entire career should be a big deal. The only reason it isn't is that the Solyndra debacle only accounts for 1/10,000th of the amount the debt has increased under Obama.
Have you not noticed that the country is broke ?
About 2/3rds of the new debt issued by the Federal government is bought by the Federal Reserve: in other words, the money is just being printed.
If you agree with Obama that that's just a long term or medium term issue, then I don't know what else to say to you.

463 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:05:05pm

Ah well.
We'll see how things look in the morning.
Night all.

464 Ming  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:08:05pm

re: #415 HappyWarrior

Yeah because being a United States Senator and a state senator before that isn't a real job. Nice try though, you dumb fuck.

I suppose teaching at the University of Chicago Law School for ten years isn't a real job either.

465 Barflytom  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:08:30pm

re: #459 Gert Fröbe

He's probably either Irish, Scottish, or Welsh.

Thanks for saving me the trouble !

Welsh.

466 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:08:53pm

re: #464 Ming

I suppose teaching at the University of Chicago Law School for ten years isn't a real job either.

We all know those fancy universities are just marxist training grounds, anyway.

467 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:09:51pm

re: #462 Barflytom

Have you not noticed that the country is broke ?

by this definition i should have noticed that the country was "broke" after ronald reagan had been president

468 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:11:55pm

re: #464 Ming

I suppose teaching at the University of Chicago Law School for ten years isn't a real job either.

Of course not. The only real jobs are in business and more business. Unless you're Paul Ryan, then it's perfectly acceptable to be a lifer in government because your political views are acceptable. Really, downright laughable that this is Obama's "first real job."

469 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:13:24pm

re: #465 Barflytom

Thanks for saving me the trouble !

Welsh.

Can't say that I agree with you in regards to President Obama or how this debate went, but I figured that you were from another part of the UK from what you said.

Jimmah is our resident Scot, BTW.

470 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:13:24pm
MP3 Audio
471 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:15:22pm
472 boredtechindenver  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:15:54pm

re: #216 Talking Point Detective

One might be tempted to think that Killgore's opinions tend towards being a tad fraudulent.

That's like saying I tend to be a tad flatulent.

473 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:23:50pm

More on that CNN poll that showed Romney crushing it:

I already pointed out earlier that the favorables BEFORE the debate were Obama -1, Romney +12, which is strange considering that is nothing like the typical swing-state or undecided voter.

Turns out, all of the people polled were white, over 50 years old, from the South, and none identified as "liberal." (You can get down to the relevant data on page 8).


CNN - We Make the News.

474 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:25:58pm

re: #470 freetoken

oblivion soave

montiverdi 1642

475 Barflytom  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:26:06pm

re: #458 engineer cat

let's see how you feel about it if you ever happened to find yourself in the position of having an insurance company deny you coverage because of a pre-existing condition or lifetime limits and ending up watching your savings drain away while languishing on a hospital bed connected to life support

I hope you don't have to try your luck in an NHS hospital someday.
The likely outcome if Obamacare is implemented is going to be the worst of both worlds. You'll have a partly private system with all the massive bureaucracy of a government system. Do you think the government is somehow going to conjure up unlimited funds to pay for everyone's healthcare ?

476 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:28:33pm

re: #473 JamesWI

More on that CNN poll that showed Romney crushing it:


Turns out, all of the people polled were white, over 50 years old, from the South, and none identified as "liberal." (You can get down to the relevant data on page 8)..

So basically, CNN's polling sample = the Faux News focus group?

477 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:28:55pm

Mitt Romney, master of pantloads:

After the first presidential debate at the University of Denver in Colorado on Wednesday night, one of Mitt Romney’s top advisers acknowledged that, as a result Romney’s plan to repeal Obamacare, people with pre-existing medical conditions would likely be unable to purchase insurance.

The admission directly contradicts the GOP candidate’s claim during the debate that “pre-existing conditions are covered under my plan” — a contention Romney has repeated on the trail and that his campaign has repeatedly walked back.

478 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:29:07pm

re: #473 JamesWI

More on that CNN poll that showed Romney crushing it:

I already pointed out earlier that the favorables BEFORE the debate were Obama -1, Romney +12, which is strange considering that is nothing like the typical swing-state or undecided voter.

Turns out, all of the people polled were white, over 50 years old, from the South, and none identified as "liberal." (You can get down to the relevant data on page 8).

CNN - We Make the News.

That's just sloppy.

479 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:30:08pm

re: #477 goddamnedfrank

Mitt Romney, master of pantloads:

I am glad one of his advisers is at least honest. And as someone with a per-existing condition, they can fuck off. They think I should be able to be denied coverage because of a genetic condition I can't control or cure.

480 Barflytom  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:30:48pm

re: #467 engineer cat

by this definition i should have noticed that the country was "broke" after ronald reagan had been president

Total debt/GDP was about 50% at the end of Reagan's second term vs about 100% today.
I won't question your maths again, but I do wonder where you get your information.

481 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:32:22pm

Sanity break!

The list of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame nominees is out:

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Rush, Deep Purple, Public Enemy and N.W.A. are among the group of first-time nominees for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

They join returnees Heart, Joan Jett and the Blackhearts, Randy Newman, Donna Summer and Kraftwerk among the 15 artists vying for entry.

Even in the iPod age, the list of nominees up for induction in 2013 is as eclectic as they come. Nominees differ wildly in sound, origin and influence, ranging from the enduring prog rock of Canadian trio Rush and Procul Harum to German proto-electronica act Kraftwerk, the disco of Chic and Summer to the New Orleans funk of The Meters and the blues of Albert King and the Paul Butterfield Blues Band.

Motown also is represented by first-ballot entries The Marvelettes.

482 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:33:56pm

re: #473 JamesWI

More on that CNN poll that showed Romney crushing it:

I already pointed out earlier that the favorables BEFORE the debate were Obama -1, Romney +12, which is strange considering that is nothing like the typical swing-state or undecided voter.

Turns out, all of the people polled were white, over 50 years old, from the South, and none identified as "liberal." (You can get down to the relevant data on page 8).

CNN - We Make the News.

You've got to be kidding me? Does anybody have a real poll that isn't freeped?

483 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:34:03pm

re: #478 HappyWarrior

That's just sloppy.

It's not sloppy. It's exactly what they planned. They want the election to be a "horserace" so they stack the poll to ensure that Romney looks better no matter what happens.

Then everyone reports their numbers, "Romney destroyed Obama" becomes the narrative, and they get a more exciting race to boost their weak ratings.

484 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:34:32pm

re: #483 JamesWI

It's not sloppy. It's exactly what they planned. They want the election to be a "horserace" so they stack the poll to ensure that Romney looks better no matter what happens.

Then everyone reports their numbers, "Romney destroyed Obama" becomes the narrative, and they get a more exciting race to boost their weak ratings.

I thought CNN was better than that kind of crap. Then again they employ Erickson and Loesch.

485 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:35:14pm

re: #475 Barflytom

I hope you don't have to try your luck in an NHS hospital someday

i hope you don't have to try your luck as somebody with no medical insurance and a serious health condition

but i'm sure your insurance company has promised you that it will always take care of you and approve payment for all procedures you will ever think you need without ever raising your premiums - they're very kind hearted that way

486 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:35:24pm

re: #481 Lidane

Motown also is represented by first-ballot entries The Mavelettes.

I think that's Marvelettes:

MP3 Audio
487 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:35:49pm

re: #483 JamesWI

It's not sloppy. It's exactly what they planned. They want the election to be a "horserace" so they stack the poll to ensure that Romney looks better no matter what happens.

Then everyone reports their numbers, "Romney destroyed Obama" becomes the narrative, and they get a more exciting race to boost their weak ratings.

This. The narrative was pre-planned. In the meantime, I'll be looking at the only polls that have ever mattered: battleground states. Obama's ahead in all of them.

488 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:36:23pm

re: #480 Barflytom

Total debt/GDP was about 50% at the end of Reagan's second term vs about 100% today.
I won't question your maths again, but I do wonder where you get your information.

i will gladly let you continue to demonstrate your inability to understand the basics of finance

489 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:37:29pm

re: #473 JamesWI

Haha CNN. CNN desperately wants this election to be close

490 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:37:39pm

Silver is saying that Romney basically kicked a field goal. Couple days ago he had said Obama was up by a touchdown. Sounds right.

491 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:39:01pm

re: #490 HappyWarrior

Silver is saying that Romney basically kicked a field goal. Couple days ago he had said Obama was up by a touchdown. Sounds right.

Yeah. I'd agree. It's just all of the hysteria and hand wringing I can't take.

492 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:39:05pm

re: #486 freetoken

Looks like the WaPo needs an editor. Heh.

493 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:39:35pm

re: #492 Lidane

They need a lot more than an editor.

494 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:39:44pm

Does anybody know how many people actually watched? I can't imagine too many people being able to stay with such a snoozefest.

495 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:40:49pm

re: #221 freetoken

Gay Texas Couple Wakes Up to Find 'Leave Or Die Fags' Painted on Their Front Porch: VIDEO

Yes, there is another "debate" scheduled for social issues, but here is yet another constituency for which the President didn't provide a defense tonight.

What about hospital visitation rights for same sex couples? Will Mitt's "states rights" plan allow for Texans in gay relationships to have hospital visitation rights?

You miss the point. The whole idea of letting states have a share of the power is letting states have a share of the power. Questions such as who gets visitation rights are like questions of what the rules on marriage are. Different states have different laws.

Does anyone here know what Texas law is right now? Do married couples from other states have hospital visitation rights, currently, if they're same sex? I don't know. At a guess, the answer would be yes.

496 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:41:44pm

Even Luke Russert knows the score. He tweeted "Here comes the Romney comeback story".

497 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:42:48pm

re: #495 lostlakehiker

You miss the point. The whole idea of letting states have a share of the power is letting states have a share of the power. Questions such as who gets visitation rights are like questions of what the rules on marriage are. Different states have different laws.

Does anyone here know what Texas law is right now? Do married couples from other states have hospital visitation rights, currently, if they're same sex? I don't know. At a guess, the answer would be yes.

I'm a Texan and I doubt it. The state of Texas does not acknowledge same-sex couples married in other states.

498 blueraven  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:43:10pm

This is the CNN sample
Mitt beats Obama on favorable/unfavorable by a wide margin pre debate
That is just not consistent with any poll I have seen

4. Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of Barack Obama?
(Post Debate) (Pre-Debate)
Oct. 3 Sept. 28-Oct. 2
2012 2012
Favorable opinion 49% 49%
Unfavorable opinion 49% 50%
No opinion 2% 1%

5. Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of Mitt Romney?
(Post Debate) (Pre-Debate)
Oct. 3 Sept. 28-Oct. 2
2012 2012
Favorable opinion 56% 54%
Unfavorable opinion 42% 42%
No opinion 2% 3%

499 Barflytom  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:44:27pm

re: #488 engineer cat

i will gladly let you continue to demonstrate your inability to understand the basics of finance

Well if I'm missing some obvious way that the federal debt and unfunded entitlements will just get paid somehow, please enlighten me.

500 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:44:52pm

re: #498 blueraven

This is the CNN sample
Mitt beats Obama on favorable/unfavorable by a wide margin pre debate
That is just not consistent with any poll I have seen

Yeah the Romney favorable ratings are too high. And Obama's too low. This really comes across as CNN desperate to make this a close race.

501 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:44:54pm

re: #480 Barflytom

Total debt/GDP was about 50% at the end of Reagan's second term vs about 100% today.
I won't question your maths again, but I do wonder where you get your information.

here, i'll give you a hint - i'm a nice guy that way

first, figure out what the real financing is that is required of the united states government to finance its debt, which as a total sum has never been paid down one dollar in decades. it's called 'interest payments'

and then look up on the internet what percentage of the federal budget has been devoted to debt service over the past 30 years or so. you will then see that this percentage was much higher after 12 years of reagan and bush than it is now. debt is not good, and we always have far too much, but it is hardly from worse than it's ever been and it's far from a crisis

by the kind of accounting that you have been propogandized with, every homeowner in the country with a 30 year mortgage is desperately broke and in danger of committing financial suicide

502 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:45:28pm

re: #498 blueraven

This is the CNN sample
Mitt beats Obama on favorable/unfavorable by a wide margin pre debate
That is just not consistent with any poll I have seen

LOL! There are no polls with Romney's favorables like that. Anything for the horse race narrative.

503 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:46:30pm

re: #502 moderatelyradicalliberal

LOL! There are no polls with Romney's favorables like that. Anything for the horse race narrative.

I don't think I've ever seen Mitt's favorable ratings that high. Not even among Republican primary voters. Okay, I exaggerate but this is bad.

504 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:47:01pm

re: #495 lostlakehiker

Does anyone here know what Texas law is right now? Do married couples from other states have hospital visitation rights, currently, if they're same sex? I don't know. At a guess, the answer would be yes.

Well, the Defense of Marriage Act was passed specifically so states like Texas wouldn't have to grant those rights to married gay couples from other states, SOOOOOOO.....I'd have to bet on "No" being the correct answer to that question.

505 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:48:56pm

re: #504 JamesWI

Well, the Defense of Marriage Act was made specifically so states like Texas wouldn't have to grant those rights to married gay couples from other states, SOOOOOOO.....I'd have to bet on "No" being the correct answer to that question.

Yeah I was thinking doesn't DOMA allow Texas teh right to refuse that. Another reason why that legislation stinks.

506 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:49:12pm

re: #498 blueraven

I've been watching this whole CNN faux-poll-foo-poll thing all night waiting for my subconscious to come up with something... and so far all I've got is this:

Q. Why is CNN doing this?

A. Because they want to make money.

But, you might ask, how can they make money on doing what seems like shoddy work?

Well, here is my conjecture - they've read the tea-party-leaves, and determined there is more money to be made in selling adverts to the gold bugs than, say, feminine hygiene products (at least for their "news" program audience.)

News Corp. and Clear Channel have shown Time-Warner that for the American "news" consumer there are certain things that work better than others. Slowly, Time-Warner is getting the hint.

507 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:49:41pm

re: #499 Barflytom

Well if I'm missing some obvious way that the federal debt and unfunded entitlements will just get paid somehow, please enlighten me.

see my 501, but also you are only making it more clear how little you understand

federal debt -once more, we only pay interest on it. the capital is not due, and, however strange that situation is, it's been that way for decades and shows no sign of changing

unfunded entitlements - perhaps you are thinking of that scary phrase 'unfunded liabilities' - anybody who actually understands this term - which is by the way only an estimate - realizes that it only makes sense when calculated over a term of years. ss and medicare have financial problems, but the republican party has offered no practical solutions for them short of eliminating them

so, tell me, what do you know about 'unfunded liabilities'? let's talk about that for a while, eh?

508 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:51:14pm

re: #506 freetoken

Q. Why is CNN doing this?

A. Because they want to make money.

But, you might ask, how can they make money on doing what seems like shoddy work?

Because they know that people like me and you, who will find their poll's PDF, read through it, and actually comprehend what it is they're doing, are extremely rare, and the average viewer won't listen to us.

509 simoom  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:51:52pm

re: #473 JamesWI

More on that CNN poll that showed Romney crushing it:

I already pointed out earlier that the favorables BEFORE the debate were Obama -1, Romney +12, which is strange considering that is nothing like the typical swing-state or undecided voter.

Turns out, all of the people polled were white, over 50 years old, from the South, and none identified as "liberal." (You can get down to the relevant data on page 8).

CNN - We Make the News.

OK, the crosstabs on that are the weirdest thing I've ever seen. Nice catch.

Northest, Mid-West, West: N/A
Liberal: N/A
Under 50: N/A
Non-White: N/A
No College: N/A
Rural: N/A

[edit: it's worth noting the cross-tabs mark "less than 1%" with an asterisk, so the N/A thing is particularly mystifying.]

510 Barflytom  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:52:09pm

re: #501 engineer cat

here, i'll give you a hint - i'm a nice guy that way

first, figure out what the real financing is that is required of the united states government to finance its debt, which as a total sum has never been paid down one dollar in decades. it's called 'interest payments'

and then look up on the internet what percentage of the federal budget has been devoted to debt service over the past 30 years or so. you will then see that this percentage was much higher after 12 years of reagan and bush than it is now. debt is not good, and we always have far too much, but it is hardly from worse than it's ever been and it's far from a crisis

by the kind of accounting that you have been propogandized with, every homeowner in the country with a 30 year mortgage is desperately broke and in danger of committing financial suicide

If you think interest rates can be kept at basically zero indefinitely, well good luck. The annual deficit as a percentage of revenue is another issue - I haven't looked for comparisons, but I suspect the US is in a worse position by this measure than just about anywhere. A lot of it is short term debt as well which has to be re-financed frequently. No doubt you have fond memories of the early eighties when treasuries were paying about 15%.
A 30 year mortgage is one thing; if you financed your house on credit cards it's rather different.

511 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:53:22pm

re: #509 simoom

OK, the crosstabs on that are the weirdest thing I've ever seen. Nice catch.

Northest, Mid-West, West: N/A
Liberal: N/A
Under 50: N/A
Non-White: N/A
No College: N/A
Rural: N/A

Really weird but CNN wants a horse race it looks like.

512 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:54:26pm

i'm amazed at how easily republican propaganda victims are convinced that the national debt will be required to be paid in full very soonre: #510 Barflytom

If you think interest rates can be kept at basically zero indefinitely, well good luck. The annual deficit as a percentage of revenue is another issue - I haven't looked for comparisons, but I suspect the US is in a worse position by this measure than just about anywhere. A lot of it is short term debt as well which has to be re-financed frequently. No doubt you have fond memories of the early eighties when treasuries were paying about 15%.
A 30 year mortgage is one thing; if you financed your house on credit cards it's rather different.

and your point is?

you do realize that the united states government gets the lowest interest rates in the universe, don't you?

513 blueraven  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:56:31pm

re: #506 freetoken

I've been watching this whole CNN faux-poll-foo-poll thing all night waiting for my subconscious to come up with something... and so far all I've got is this:

Q. Why is CNN doing this?

A. Because they want to make money.

But, you might ask, how can they make money on doing what seems like shoddy work?

Well, here is my conjecture - they've read the tea-party-leaves, and determined there is more money to be made in selling adverts to the gold bugs than, say, feminine hygiene products (at least for their "news" program audience.)

News Corp. and Clear Channel have shown Time-Warner that for the American "news" consumer there are certain things that work better than others. Slowly, Time-Warner is getting the hint.

CNN has a really bad habit of wanting to be first on major events rather than getting the facts right.
Remember the SC ruling on Obamacare? They really screwed that one.

514 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:57:12pm

re: #495 lostlakehiker

You miss the point. The whole idea of letting states have a share of the power is letting states have a share of the power.

Deep. Did you whip that out yourself or have a team of monkeys bang it out?

Questions such as who gets visitation rights are like questions of what the rules on marriage are. Different states have different laws.

Does anyone here know what Texas law is right now? Do married couples from other states have hospital visitation rights, currently, if they're same sex? I don't know. At a guess, the answer would be yes.

Only because of Obama:

President Obama mandated Thursday that nearly all hospitals extend visitation rights to the partners of gay men and lesbians and respect patients' choices about who may make critical health-care decisions for them, perhaps the most significant step so far in his efforts to expand the rights of gay Americans.

If Texas state government had its way gays would have few to no rights whatsoever. Same sex civil unions are banned and out of state gay marriages aren't recognized at all. Sexual orientation isn't covered Texas hate crimes legislation and the Texas Republican Party want's to reinstate anti-sodomy legislation.

515 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 11:59:58pm

re: #514 goddamnedfrank

Only because of Obama:

If Texas state government had its way gays would have few to no rights whatsoever. Same sex civil unions are banned and out of state gay marriages aren't recognized at all. Sexual orientation isn't covered Texas hate crimes legislation and the Texas Republican Party want's to reinstate anti-sodomy legislation.

Good on Obama. Really, there's no reason why someone should be denied hospital visitation rights because you're a gay couple.Fact that that's even an issue boggles my mind and I really hope at the next debate Romney gets pressed hard on issues like this given he likes to claim big government intrudes on individual liberties while he supports states having the right to do stuff like this.

516 engineer cat  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 12:00:32am

re: #510 Barflytom

[Link: www.gao.gov...]

you will find on this page that debt service as a percentage of the federal budget was about twice as high in the 90s as it is right now

in other words: we can afford the mortgage

517 freetoken  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 12:06:34am
MP3 Audio
518 engineer cat  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 12:07:43am

The annual deficit as a percentage of revenue is another issue

i remember vividly when i was working for a very profitable company when the cfo gave us a speech explaining why the company was borrowing money in large amounts when it didn't need any - it was because they would get the best interest that way so that the money would be cheaper when they needed it. i didn't necessarily think it was a great idea, but i'm not a cfo

people who don't know much about how large profitable companies are run sometimes don't seem to know that they often get into large amounts of debt voluntarily or otherwise for various reasons

519 Barflytom  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 12:14:28am

re: #512 engineer cat

i'm amazed at how easily republican propaganda victims are convinced that the national debt will be required to be paid in full very soon

and your point is?

you do realize that the united states government gets the lowest interest rates in the universe, don't you?

The problem with your rather complacent attitude is the assumption that you can keep interest rates as low as they are now by printing money for evermore. Plus, as I said earlier, the US has a relatively high proportion of its debt in short term bills.
That game has to stop sooner or later. It's not a matter of repaying the principal on the national debt, it's the cost of either servicing the debt or inflating it away.
If the deficit spending isn't brought under control soon, you'll pay for it with higher interest rates or higher inflation.
Another point that us brainwashed right-wingers like to make is that Reagan at least had something to show for his spending. Total private wealth went up by tens of trillions - far more than the increase in federal debt.
Look at what has happened to household net worth in the last few years.

520 Barflytom  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 12:22:05am

re: #518 engineer cat

The annual deficit as a percentage of revenue is another issue

i remember vividly when i was working for a very profitable company when the cfo gave us a speech explaining why the company was borrowing money in large amounts when it didn't need any - it was because they would get the best interest that way so that the money would be cheaper when they needed it. i didn't necessarily think it was a great idea, but i'm not a cfo

people who don't know much about how large profitable companies are run sometimes don't seem to know that they often get into large amounts of debt voluntarily or otherwise for various reasons

You missed the point there.
The deficit is about a third of total spending. If you want to close that gap you have to increase revenue by 50 % or cut spending by 33% (or some combination of course - it seems I have to spell out the obvious).
As to the point you did address, well yeah, if the government was borrowing money it didn't need for 30 year terms at basically zero interest we'd be fine.
The reality is that the Fed is printing 80 billion a month just to pay the ongoing outlays.
It ain't gonna last.

521 engineer cat  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 12:24:39am

re: #519 Barflytom

The problem with your rather complacent attitude is the assumption that you can keep interest rates as low as they are now by printing money for evermore. Plus, as I said earlier, the US has a relatively high proportion of its debt in short term bills.
That game has to stop sooner or later. It's not a matter of repaying the principal on the national debt, it's the cost of either servicing the debt or inflating it away.
If the deficit spending isn't brought under control soon, you'll pay for it with higher interest rates or higher inflation.
Another point that us brainwashed right-wingers like to make is that Reagan at least had something to show for his spending. Total private wealth went up by tens of trillions - far more than the increase in federal debt.
Look at what has happened to household net worth in the last few years.

"printing money" - now you are really making me laugh. what do you think "money" really is, anyway? pieces of paper?

as for this

If the deficit spending isn't brought under control soon, you'll pay for it with higher interest rates or higher inflation.

i remember arguing exactly this point back in the 80s when ronald reagan was running up the debt, but republicans then just told me "you democrats just don't understand economics"

also: george walker bush, master deficit spender. how to pay for the iraq and afghanistan war? borrow it, natch! how to pay for a massive new "keep drug prices high" medicare drug benefit? borrow some more!

your problem is that the people you listen to only get concerned about too much debt during democratic administrations

522 Lidane  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 12:25:30am
523 engineer cat  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 12:32:22am

re: #520 Barflytom

You missed the point there.

no, you missed the point

The deficit is about a third of total spending. If you want to close that gap you have to increase revenue by 50 % or cut spending by 33% (or some combination of course - it seems I have to spell out the obvious).

since when has any administration, democratic or republican, ever prioritized closing the deficit?

oh, that's right - bill clinton. it was closed by a combination of tax increases, some rather wimpy slowdowns in the increase in federal spending by the gingrich house (they only kept up the spending slowdowns for two or three years before letting the increase in federal spending year over year go back to normal levels), and - the most important - an economic boom

get real - no president, r or d, is gonna raise enough revenue or cut enough spending to eliminate the deficit. why? BECAUSE IT ISN'T NEARLY OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM

perspective - get some

As to the point you did address, well yeah, if the government was borrowing money it didn't need for 30 year terms at basically zero interest we'd be fine.
The reality is that the Fed is printing 80 billion a month just to pay the ongoing outlays.
It ain't gonna last.

there you go with again with that lazy thinking: "printing money" - using this meaningless phrase is a prime indication that you have no idea how finance works

524 engineer cat  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 12:35:44am

also - keep this in mind: in an inflationary universe, all fixed interest payments become - effectively - smaller over time

that's why a long term fixed rate mortgage makes sense. remember, when you borrow money at a fixed rate, the lender is not allowed to increase the dollar rate of interest payments

we haven't seen a deflationary universe in quite some time, but if we ever do, then it will be time to panic!!!

525 freetoken  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 12:42:10am

The last time the US government ran a true surplus, this was the big hit of the year:

MP3 Audio
526 freetoken  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 12:45:16am

Check it out for yourself:

[Link: www.treasurydirect.gov...]

1957 was the last year total US (face value) debt went down.

527 engineer cat  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 12:45:36am

you mentioned earlier that you thought engineering involved math, and of course often it does, especially in types of engineering outside of my own craft, software engineering. but making computer programs only involves math in any serious way in some situations, such as for example where math is part of the subject being automated, or, surprisingly, in game programming, where movement and perspective coding demand seriously difficult math that is way beyond me

but most programming demands other skills. for me, at the detail level it demands patience, infinite attention to detail, patience, unrelenting stubbornness, the ability to follow long chains of logic, and patience. and more stubbornness

528 engineer cat  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 12:50:46am

re: #525 freetoken

The last time the US government ran a true surplus, this was the big hit of the year:

[Embedded content]

that's a great old tune

529 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 12:51:41am

'Morning, all.

Intrade has returned to O--66, R--33. The panic subsides.

[Link: www.intrade.com...]

530 freetoken  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 1:05:47am

re: #528 engineer cat

1957 turned out to be a big year as far as iconic American pop music. Indeed, when I look at the whole post-WWII top of the chart Billboard lists it seems like 1957 has the highest percentage of keepers.

MP3 Audio
531 simoom  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 1:06:44am
532 simoom  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 1:08:51am

re: #531 simoom

I'm sure that debate finger-slip tweet will be deleted by a staffer, just made me chuckle so I embedded it for posterity.

533 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 1:09:10am

re: #529 Decatur Deb

'Morning, all.

Intrade has returned to O--66, R--33. The panic subsides.

[Link: www.intrade.com...]

Big Bird, on the other hand, is in the low 20s.

534 freetoken  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 1:10:14am

re: #531 simoom

A: "N"

Q: What was the 14th letter in the Ancient Etruscan alphabet?

535 freetoken  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 1:13:20am
MP3 Audio
536 freetoken  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 1:14:36am

Yeah, 1957, an Eisenhower year, when the US government ran a real surplus, and American music hadn't yet been diluted by the "British invasion".

537 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 1:17:04am

re: #536 freetoken

Yeah, 1957, an Eisenhower year, when the US government ran a real surplus, and American music hadn't yet been diluted by the "British invasion".

For all practical purposes, I stopped listening to R&R in 1958. We were allowed to listen to radio only on school vacations, and that was suspect.

538 researchok  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 1:21:02am

Morning, all

539 researchok  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 1:24:56am

re: #535 freetoken

Nice.

Smooths over last night's at times contentious mood.

540 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 1:36:53am

By '58, rock had not really developed into 'schools'. The only split was Black rock and White (often cover) rock. Dick Clark did a very good job of bridging them.

Consensus among White Pittsburgh kids was that Paul Anka's "Diana" was the greatest oldie (more than 90 days old).

Youtube Video
541 simoom  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 1:37:26am

re: #473 JamesWI

Looks like one the the Buzzfeed folks RT'ed it:

542 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 1:39:06am

re: #541 simoom

Looks like one the the Buzzfeed folks RT'ed it:

[Embedded content]

The spin will be kept at high rpm for a week.

543 freetoken  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 2:01:57am

re: #540 Decatur Deb

Another 1957 hit.

I tell you, that was the year.

Hmmmm... the last year the US government ran a fiscal surplus, coincides with such an iconic year in pop music. I'm sure there's a connection in there somewhere.

544 researchok  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 2:05:29am

re: #543 freetoken

Time for a new chart -Money and Music'

You'll be famous
/

545 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 2:12:30am

re: #543 freetoken

Another 1957 hit.

I tell you, that was the year.

Hmmmm... the last year the US government ran a fiscal surplus, coincides with such an iconic year in pop music. I'm sure there's a connection in there somewhere.

We were spinning up the Defense Dept. for the hot part of the Cold War. It impacted our budgets and the mental state of our yutes.

546 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 2:22:48am

re: #541 simoom

Looks like one the the Buzzfeed folks RT'ed it:

[Embedded content]

The way I read that it's not that they didn't poll anybody else, they simply couldn't get enough people to take part in both polls to get a margin of error of error on any subgroup other than Southern whites over 50. If you look at the totals vs. the subgroup, where reported, there simply had to be others in the poll, however not enough to generate a margin of error for those subgroups. Being unable to generate a margin of error for those subgroups meant they dropped them entirely from the percentage reporting.

This is where it gets ugly though. With the study population being generously limited to likely voters, not being able to generate a margin of error for non-whites means there had to be 4 or less in the entire poll. Same with liberals, same with non Southerners, same for people under 50 years of age, same for those who never attended college.

Anyway, CNN should be a goddamned laughingstock for putting this out at all. It's a complete hack job that any self respecting news org would never have let see the light of day.

547 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 2:26:18am

re: #546 goddamnedfrank

The basic problem CNN ran into is that it's incredibly difficult to get someone to pick up the phone once, let alone be there for the follow up interview.

548 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 2:36:21am

Got my zillionth fundraising plea from the Prez:

"I hope I made you proud out there explaining the vision we share for this country.
Now we need to go win this election -- the most important thing that will happen tonight is what you do (or don't do) to help in the little time we have left:
[Link: donate.barackobama.com...]

Thank you,
Barack"

Actually, no, you didn't make me proud. I'm busting my hump and my retirement budget for you, and you let that liar walk away from his bullshit.

Off to Florida in a couple hours to help contain the damage.

549 simoom  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 3:00:02am

re: #548 Decatur Deb

Got my zillionth fundraising plea from the Prez:

I got off the mailing list a long time back. I get that they have the fundraising appeals down to a science of wording and frequency, but my donation impulses have only ever been driven by extended bad news cycles, so the various e-mails and web-ads are just spam to me.

550 simoom  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 3:01:34am

Off to get a little sleep.

551 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 3:07:37am

Morning Honcos.

552 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 3:17:51am

Clearwater police arrest man they say raped and impregnated 12-year-old
CLEARWATER — Authorities have arrested a 39-year-old man they said had sex multiple times with a 12-year-old girl in the past year.

The abuse came to light after the child recently discovered she was pregnant, Clearwater police said Wednesday. Officials arrested Cesar Ernesto Alcivar, of 2236 Gulf to Bay, Blvd, Lot 217, Tuesday night on a charge of capital sexual battery.

They said Alcivar had sex with the girl many times, starting when she was 11. The incidents happened in an undisclosed location in Clearwater. Police said a local hospital contacted them about the case. The victim's mother took her there because the girl was complaining of stomach pains. Doctors discovered the girl was pregnant.
Alcivar remained in the Pinellas County Jail without bail on Wednesday.
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]
In Florida, this means life. Enjoy your protective custody you POS.

553 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 3:20:38am

re: #552 Cannadian Club Akbar

Make this guy your hobby. I'd love to see what he serves.

(My hobby was a drunken SOB who killed 23 Army kids and burned a bunch of others. He served 3 months for each dead kid.)

554 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 3:25:50am

re: #553 Decatur Deb

Make this guy your hobby. I'd love to see what he serves.

(My hobby was a drunken SOB who killed 23 Army kids and burned a bunch of others. He served 3 months for each dead kid.)

I remember this from 1990. Crash happened in 1988.
[Link: www.people.com...]

555 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 3:31:51am

re: #552 Cannadian Club Akbar

I also wonder, if the girl has the baby they will have DNA. But if she chooses to end the pregnancy, would they extract DNA to strengthen their case? (I honestly ask because I don't know)

556 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 3:39:13am

re: #555 Cannadian Club Akbar

They can test DNA without delivery, yeah.

One of the uglier cases I've seen was a case where a guy got convicted of rape, and then won an appeal-- where it was revealed that the father was the real rapist, and had coached his daughter on what to say if it ever was revealed. However, they weren't able to make the case against the father for months afterwards, while they gathered new evidence. Luckily eventually the wife talked, but for a few months the guy was free.

557 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 3:42:37am

Disappointed.

558 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 3:45:54am

re: #557 Gus

Disappointed.

Among people who didn't watch the debate, it's seeming like the only thing that really came out of it was Romney's desire to get rid of Big Bird, and that he wants vouchers for Medicare.

Whether or not in the end this debate was good for Romney depends on whether people care that he was lying and contradicting himself rapidly. That's kind of an unknown. Is Romney currently down in the polls because people thinks he sucks as a human being, or do they actually not trust him and his policies and the things he says?

559 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 3:50:23am

re: #558 Sheeplord

Among people who didn't watch the debate, it's seeming like the only thing that really came out of it was Romney's desire to get rid of Big Bird, and that he wants vouchers for Medicare.

Whether or not in the end this debate was good for Romney depends on whether people care that he was lying and contradicting himself rapidly. That's kind of an unknown. Is Romney currently down in the polls because people thinks he sucks as a human being, or do they actually not trust him and his policies and the things he says?

All I saw last night was nothing but Obama bashing. Romney was a dick and Obama just sat there taking notes and mumbled his responses barely defending himself. Taking notes while Romney kept hammering away as he wrote. It was style over substance. Meanwhile it seemed like Lehrer had a man crush for Romney. All while getting trolled by that douche bag bar fly Tom. I gave up and fell asleep around 9 PM.

560 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 3:56:03am

re: #559 Gus

I found it mainly really boring. The only excitement was in guessing which things Mitt said were going to be put into ads showing him contradicting himself. And that's a rich panoply of choice.

But as an example of memes:

Image: matt-ortega-shared-an-image-of-mitt-romney-hanging-out-with-big-bird-suggesting-romney-would-say-i-like-big-bird-i-also-like-firing-big-bird.jpg

Image: big-bird-debate.jpg

Image: romney-bigbird.jpg

561 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 3:59:01am

re: #560 Sheeplord

I found it mainly really boring. The only excitement was in guessing which things Mitt said were going to be put into ads showing him contradicting himself. And that's a rich panoply of choice.

But as an example of memes:

Image: matt-ortega-shared-an-image-of-mitt-romney-hanging-out-with-big-bird-suggesting-romney-would-say-i-like-big-bird-i-also-like-firing-big-bird.jpg

Image: big-bird-debate.jpg

Image: romney-bigbird.jpg

When I heard Romney mentioned defunding PBS right to Jim Lehrer of all people. Fucking aye this country is populated by idiots. That was like within the first 20 minutes. Then it was taxes, taxes, taxes, and Obama bashing. The fact checkers just focused on Obama though. Big Bird. PBS. And taxes.

562 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:00:38am

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

563 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:01:35am

Karma: 0

ScarletPimpernel

(Logged in)
Registered since: Sep 4, 2012 at 3:19 pm
No. of comments posted: 0
No. of Pages posted: 0

564 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:02:10am

Pat Neshek Says Newborn Son Died: Athletics Pitcher Tweets About Death Of Infant
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

This is horrible.

565 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:02:17am

I'm feeling a bit carnivorous too.

566 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:03:09am

re: #561 Gus

Yeah, politifact rating the medicare cuts as half-true was just kind of mindbogglingly dumb. At best, the factcheckers seemed to have disappeared up their own assholes in their continuing mutating search for what 'truth' is, they're probably just engaging in the false sense of balance that afflicts so many, or they-- especially the ones that are just rebranded media sources-- may be actually trying to even things up for their own benefit.

Who knows, but Politifact wound up a little more tarnished at the end of that than before. I don't think 'live-tweeting' fact-checking is a smart idea; kind of takes away from the idea you're doing a sober, judicious assessment.

567 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:03:16am

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

568 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:05:44am

re: #567 Gus

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

I didn't watch the debate but figured out what happened with the media's response.

569 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:05:57am

re: #3 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Romney may have been talking about his sons, but he could have just as well have been talking about himself.

Where do you think they learned it from?

570 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:07:45am

re: #568 Cannadian Club Akbar

I didn't watch the debate but figured out what happened with the media's response.

It sucked. What can I say.

571 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:10:47am

Did they bring up contraception? Abortion? Did Romney flip on that too? Everything that came out of Romney's mouth was opposite of his campaign promises. "That's not me!"

572 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:15:48am

[Link: twitter.com...]

573 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:16:30am

re: #456 JamesWI

re: #397 Barflytom

I'm not English.

re: #455 Barflytom

even us Brits

Good catch. So what is Barf, Welsh?

574 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:17:03am

I'd glad I turned it off the second hour and watched South Park instead.

575 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:17:04am

[Link: twitter.com...]

576 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:17:16am

11 funniest Tweets about the presidential debate
[Link: now.msn.com...]

I honestly didn't find many funny.

577 BongCrodny  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:32:18am

re: #563 Gus

Karma: 0

ScarletPimpernel

(Logged in)
Registered since: Sep 4, 2012 at 3:19 pm
No. of comments posted: 0
No. of Pages posted: 0

Damned elusive pimpernel.

578 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:34:37am

re: #577 BongCrodny

Damned elusive pimpernel.

Down dings and vanishes into the night.

579 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:35:20am

re: #578 Sheila Broflovski

Down dings and vanishes into the night.

Been here for a month and no comments to boot.

580 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:38:33am

re: #579 Gus

Been here for a month and no comments to boot.

People who name themselves after heroes are rarely up to much good.

581 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:38:45am

I won't know what to say about the debate until Rush is on.
/ really do i need this!?
I would rather have them dress up like gladiators and go at it medieval style.

582 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:38:59am

Stealth down dingers suck.

583 BongCrodny  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:39:44am

re: #490 HappyWarrior

Silver is saying that Romney basically kicked a field goal. Couple days ago he had said Obama was up by a touchdown. Sounds right.

Yeah, but two more field goals...

584 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:41:06am
585 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:41:11am

It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye.

586 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:43:52am
587 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:44:09am

re: #584 Sheila Broflovski

[Embedded content]

RomneyCare? Did Obama even mention RomneyCare once?

588 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:44:23am

re: #586 Sheila Broflovski

[Embedded content]

Too late now.

589 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:44:43am

The audacity of Romney

590 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:46:02am

re: #588 Gus

Too late now.

But it's not, really. The debate was watched by a relatively small number of people, and, historically, people don't really care who 'won' the debate. The basic situation hasn't changed; it's not a game show where Romney just won immunity or anything.

It's not even the last debate.

591 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:46:47am

re: #590 Sheeplord

But it's not, really. The debate was watched by a relatively small number of people, and, historically, people don't really care who 'won' the debate. The basic situation hasn't changed; it's not a game show where Romney just won immunity or anything.

It's not even the last debate.

I know. I'm just talking about this debate.

592 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:48:13am

So basically Mitt lied his fucking head off. I heard him repeat the "$716 million stripped from Medicare" lie several times, and Obama just stood there gaping like a fish.


At least Michelle Obama gave Cartman a well-deserved beatdown on South Park.

593 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:54:33am

Jim Lehrer basically gave Mitt Romney a blow job.

595 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:56:52am

re: #593 Gus

Jim Lehrer basically gave Mitt Romney a blow job.

Lehrer was worthless, he let the thing get totally out of control.

596 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 4:59:50am

re: #595 Sheila Broflovski

Lehrer was worthless, he let the thing get totally out of control.

He went overtime on the first segment. He also kept agreeing verbally with Romney by saying "right, right" more times with Romney. He also had a tendency to cut off Obama more. At least that was my observation. I'm not blaming it all on Lehrer but he didn't help. Obama was there somewhere but I had a hard time seeing him. This was an abject failure.

597 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:00:28am

re: #594 Gus

Van Jones: ‘Romney Was Able To ‘Out-Obama’ Obama’

Quote from the comments:
This debate was racist. The white moderator asked biased and math-related questions. Nothing about what the black experience is all about. This was RIGGED!
Not sure if this person is trying to be serious or if this person is just trying to stir the pot.

598 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:01:29am

re: #597 Cannadian Club Akbar

Quote from the comments:
This debate was racist. The white moderator asked biased and math-related questions. Nothing about what the black experience is all about. This was RIGGED!
Not sure if this person is trying to be serious or if this person is just trying to stir the pot.

Just some fucking asshole.

599 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:02:53am

re: #596 Gus

He went overtime on the first segment. He also kept agreeing verbally with Romney by saying "right, right" more times with Romney. He also had a tendency to cut off Obama more. At least that was my observation. I'm not blaming it all on Lehrer but he didn't help. Obama was there somewhere but I had a hard time seeing him. This was an abject failure.

On the upside, Romney became a blue-dog Democrat.

600 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:03:33am

re: #599 Decatur Deb

On the upside, Romney became a blue-dog Democrat.

That's the kicker too.

601 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:08:05am

HuffPo declares Mitt the winner.

HE LIED!

602 BongCrodny  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:08:11am

re: #599 Decatur Deb

On the upside, Romney became a blue-dog Democrat.

He'll be back to his old plutocratic self by the end of the day.

603 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:08:51am

Romney lied. Flip flopped on everything he's said so far. Contradicted the Paul Ryan philosophy. Then he lied some more. Yes, his voice was great and spoke well and stood his head up high. And lied some more again. Yet in the end he came out ahead. Fucked up.

604 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:09:59am
605 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:10:57am

Packing the laptop, off to do something about it all. Will try to log in from Florida.

606 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:11:38am

Ralph Nader about to be on my radio.

607 A Mom Anon  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:17:21am

Lehrer was horrendous as a moderator. Why not have a small bell go off when the time is up,or a little light that comes on or something? They didn't get to a lot of the topics either,simply because they got stuck on a couple of areas and that was it. And what.the.hell was this "how do you differ from your opponent?"being the only line of questioning they had to answer?

Obama should have made more of the Romneycare IS Obamacare thing,but damn,Romney just kept lying his ass off. There wasn't enough time to unpack all that shit. Romney also wouldn't shut up,but again,the time limit should have been enforced,or the format should have allowed for 3-5 minutes instead of two. Obama talked over his time too,but mostly in answer to Romney's bullshit. Hopefully a lot of this will make it into new ads for the people that didn't see it live.

Around 65 million people tuned in last night,according to ABC this morning,the highest watched debates(Kerry v Bush? I think)had around 95. To me,this wasn't very exciting stuff,it was pretty much healthcare and economy(or tax cuts and deficits,really)Romney did a bit better than I thought he would,Obama a bit worse,so it was more of a wash than a solid victory for either side. Anyone who thinks this was some big deciding moment for the election or liberal politics in general needs to step off and take a breath. This ain't over by a long shot.

608 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:18:05am
609 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:19:16am

re: #573 Sheila Broflovski

Good catch. So what is Barf, Welsh?

He claimed to be. But he should be PUB Fly in that case, shouldn't he?

610 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:19:37am

Great idea.
JetBlue offers free flights to unhappy voters
[Link: www.newsday.com...]

611 Dustoff848  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:19:41am

I'm not sure which was more enjoyable, watching Obama stand there like a dolt for an hour and a half or reading all the whining comments on this blog. Either way, it's a good start to the day.

612 A Mom Anon  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:20:27am

BBL,errands and doggies and children,OH MY! is my day til at least lunch.

613 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:20:59am

re: #611 Dustoff848

I'm not sure which was more enjoyable, watching Obama stand there like a dolt for an hour and a half or reading all the whining comments on this blog. Either way, it's a good start to the day.

Fuck you.

614 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:23:02am

re: #609 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

He claimed to be. But he should be PUB Fly in that case, shouldn't he?

"Us Brits" "I'm not English" Which leaves:
Scots
Welsh
Northern Irish
Channel Islands

I'm going to guess a Northern Irish?

615 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:24:11am

re: #611 Dustoff848

Stuff a sock in it, sock.

616 wheat-dogg  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:29:46am

re: #614 Sheila Broflovski

"Us Brits" "I'm not English" Which leaves:
Scots
Welsh
Northern Irish
Channel Islands

I'm going to guess a Northern Irish?

Or none of the above. BFT may be pulling our chains and pretending to be a Brit.

617 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:30:07am

re: #614 Sheila Broflovski

"Us Brits" "I'm not English" Which leaves:
Scots
Welsh
Northern Irish
Channel Islands

I'm going to guess a Northern Irish?

He claimed to be Welsh.

618 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:34:42am

re: #617 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

He claimed to be Welsh.

That was my first guess, but I don't know if he owned to it. Of course, he might be some asshole in Missouri.

619 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:34:55am

Everyone can relax. The maple syrup has been found!!!
[Link: www.google.com...]

620 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:37:12am

Heh. I was wondering which way my one friend in northern NJ was going to jump in the election. He's an independent with libertarian leanings, but enough sense of social justice that I thought the GOP would frighten him.

I think his concentration on local politics pushed him towards his final decision. Instead of straight-ticket Democrat or GOP he is simply going to do straight-ticket anti-incumbent. Which, to me, is roughly as principled as straight-ticket anything, and also about as stupid. He is settling for making a protest vote, not anything informed by the candidates and issues.

Since he got the idea from some guy on the radio I think I'll dig a little bit and see what this guy (Jim Gearhart) generally espouses. I have my expectations.

621 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:38:27am

Oh, and if you want to see something from a different perspective - how about a pagan blogger commenting about the growth of the Unitarian Universalists.

[Link: www.patheos.com...]

622 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:39:54am

re: #620 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

[Link: watch.njtvonline.org...]

623 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:45:22am

Romney’s Sick Joke

624 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:46:42am

I like it. Romney won the theater prize yet Obama passed the test.

625 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:57:53am

Romney "wins" by being an asshole. Film at 11.

626 makeitstop  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 5:59:14am

The funniest thing on Facebook this morning is seeing Republicans who have been hiding for weeks, all of a sudden crowing their asses off and being all in liberals' faces.

627 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:00:15am

re: #624 Gus

I like it. Romney won the theater prize yet Obama passed the test.

What really is funny to me is that everyone is talking about the theater of it in this awkward, constrained fashion where they say that they don't personally care about the theater aspect, but they're imagining how this will play out to Joe Sixpack or Martha Small Sherry.

I do not, really do not, get why people think they can figure that out. I couldn't even begin to get a grip on what the amalgam form of undecided or wavering voters are like. I have no freaking idea. I don't know anyone who's in the least likely to change their vote.

What I do know is people who are more or less motivated to go vote or volunteer or whatever depending on how they perceive Obama's or Romney's chances of winning. In a weird, weird inversion, the Obama voters I know are more likely to spend effort when it looks like Obama is losing, and the Romney voters are more likely to spend effort when it looks like Romney is winning. So the same thing energizes both groups.

Anyway, my point is that the analysis of the theater of it is dependent on this idea that there are significant numbers of people out there just swayed by the theater of it, without really paying attention to the policy or whether Romney was just lying. To me, this is an unproved contention, the low-information voter who nonetheless is affected by political debates or the reporting on them.

I think things would be a lot better if people talked about what they thought about what Romney said, rather than how he said it. And I think that people are starting to do that in spades this morning.

Romeny has a reputation as a liar. That blunts the positive effect he can get from stuff like this, I think.

628 Big Steve  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:01:21am

re: #626 makeitstop

The funniest thing on Facebook this morning is seeing Republicans who have been hiding for weeks, all of a sudden crowing their asses off and being all in liberals' faces.

Just about as funny as all those on the Democratic side who have be saying for weeks "I can't wait for the debates" suddenly hoping Biden can pull it off next week.

629 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:02:45am

re: #628 Big Steve

Just about as funny as all those on the Democratic side who have be saying for weeks "I can't wait for the debates" suddenly hoping Biden can pull it off next week.

What did you think about what Romney said?

Please note I'm not asking you about how he said it, but what he said.

630 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:03:54am

re: #611 Dustoff848

Please don't feed the sad little troll who can't remember that this is the same guy who supposedly lost 4 years ago...

631 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:07:17am

The First Presidential Debate

In Wednesday night's debate, Romney won on style while Obama won on substance. Romney sounded as if he had conviction, which means he's either convinced himself that the lies he tells are true or he's...

632 Big Steve  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:11:51am

re: #629 Sheeplord

What did you think about what Romney said?

Please note I'm not asking you about how he said it, but what he said.

Good question and allow me to answer on two fronts:

I think Romney's tax plan is a fail but I do like the voucher part of medicare. My impression is that while Romney says he will toss Obamacare, it appears there are parts he would keep because, lets face it.....it is his state's plan. I think he scored over the President by calling him out on "tax deductions" for taking jobs overseas.....there are none. If you move a factory overseas you may lower your operating costs which actually increases your taxable income.

On the second level, both candidates throwing numbers up and constantly ticking off 3 point or 5 point plans....well I believe most people think both are lying or more charitably cherry picking facts and this material does not connect with people. Being human does. Romney's comment about having 5 sons and just because they said something over and over didn't make it true......that does connect and for every person watching with kids they nodded on that that one.

In the end, we cannot truly determine what will happen when a President is in office so you are trying to assess how they will react. Romney did himself a huge favor in appearing in control with his wits about him. Obama appeared to view the debate as a chore which is understandable given his workload. My view is Romney will see a 5 point jump that will settle down to maybe only 1 or 2 points in the long haul. This debate tightens the race but does not put Romney over the top.

633 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:13:12am

re: #618 Sheila Broflovski

Hey, I saw a couple of adorable Chabad-Lubavitcher kids pedaling around with a rickshaw style sukkah. Forgive my ignorance, but is it really okay to use a sukkah that's just wheeled up in front of your building? I thought part of the whole deal was building it yourself, or with family/friends. Or is that just the tradition that I remember, rather than an actual part of the religious ritutal?

634 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:15:02am

As of right now:

United States Trends · Change
#ForwardNotBack Promoted
#WhatsWorseThan
#ElementarySchoolMemories
#NationalPoetryDay
Jay Bilas
Big Bird
#debate
PBS
Sesame Street
MSNBC

635 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:15:48am

re: #632 Big Steve

I think Romney's tax plan is a fail but I do like the voucher part of medicare.

In god's name why? It's going to push an enormous amount of cost onto seniors.

Romney's comment about having 5 sons and just because they said something over and over didn't make it true......that does connect and for every person watching with kids they nodded on that that one.

But don't they apply that to Romney too? I mean, he told quite a few direct lies in his speech, right? If you nodded with that, didn't you also then think "Well, that applies now" when Romney lied about pre-existing coverage?

And again, I didn't ask for your opinion about the political effects of the speech. I'm trying to talk to you about what you actually think about it, and not engage with this hypothesizing about other people's reactions.

636 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:18:23am
637 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:19:06am
638 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:21:30am

If you move a factory overseas the accounting is more complex than just lowering your domestic operating costs. Not to mention that international financing and tax laws bring a bunch of interesting tax dodges and loopholes into play.

Plus you get to work in the add-on costs of not having the money spent for the factory's upkeep, utilities and worker's wages spent in the country.

639 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:23:06am

re: #633 Sheeplord

Hey, I saw a couple of adorable Chabad-Lubavitcher kids pedaling around with a rickshaw style sukkah. Forgive my ignorance, but is it really okay to use a sukkah that's just wheeled up in front of your building? I thought part of the whole deal was building it yourself, or with family/friends. Or is that just the tradition that I remember, rather than an actual part of the religious ritutal?

Portable sukkah is great, that gives people who wouldn't otherwise be near a sukkah, the opportunity to make a blessing in the sukkah. Sukkahmobile and sukkahbike were created for people who live in apartment buildings that don't have balconies, or who don't live near a communal sukkah. Everybody wins.

I miscalculated this year and bought a HUGE sukkah. My sons put it up and they are going home before the holiday is over, so I will have to pay some neighborhood kids to take it down. Last year Zedushka built the sukkah on our back deck and then he left it up all year. ALL FREAKING YEAR. That's like the equivalent of leaving your Christmas lights up all year.

640 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:23:21am

Richard Kim, The Nation:

I’ll leave it to the horserace pundits to decide who won tonight’s debate and to the voters to decide who will win the election. I know who lost: Jim Lehrer, PBS, old media and the myth of the “sensible center.” Tonight’s moderator, Jim Lehrer, got utterly, totally, savagely pwned. The Lehrer/PBS school of moderation is fundamentally unequipped to deal with the era of post-truth, asymmetric polarization politics—and it should be retired. Time and time again, Romney deviated from the positions he took to win the GOP primary, and neither Lehrer nor Obama was able to effectively press him on it. Obama at least tried, at times.

The gulf between political reality and mainstream media mores has never seemed so wide and unbridgeable. Frankly, I came away with one new opinion, and that was to agree with Mitt Romney that PBS should go. (Big Bird, I’ll rethink this in the AM.)

But beyond the numbing boredom and bewilderment that tonight’s debate format and moderation caused, there are real costs. Not necessarily to the candidates—the media has called the debate for Romney, but I don’t think it will move the needle enough for Romney to win—but to democracy.

[Link: www.commondreams.org...]

641 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:23:23am

re: #638 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

The only benefits to a country from having a factory exported are:

A) The environmental damage is elsewhere (which basically doesn't matter since our biggest environmental problem is CO2, which is global).

B) It creates income and markets in other countries to buy your products.

That's all. Other than that, it's a loss in every way to the country that just lost the business.

642 darthstar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:24:50am

Being a dick cost one person a job last night.

643 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:25:49am

re: #641 Sheeplord

The only benefits to a country from having a factory exported are:

A) The environmental damage is elsewhere (which basically doesn't matter since our biggest environmental problem is CO2, which is global).

B) It creates income and markets in other countries to buy your products.

That's all. Other than that, it's a loss in every way to the country that just lost the business.

When Romney said last night, "I want to bring the profits back to this country" I wanted to punch him in his smirking face. Yeah, the profits of outsourcing that goes into the pockets of the 1%. And then they'll just take those profits and stash them somewhere in the Caymans or Switzerland.

644 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:26:47am

re: #639 Sheila Broflovski

Well, know that the Chabad-Lubavitcher kids in NYC are doing their people proud. They were pedaling furiously to get to their next destination, two kids on the bike-- though one could have ridden inside the sukkah, I think they thought that would be kind of undignified.

They were about thirteen or so. Got lots of smiles. And as they passed by the 92nd street Y they got quite a few shaloms and one assalamualaikum from the African Muslim security dude there.

645 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:27:57am

You say that like it's a good thing...

646 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:28:01am

re: #642 darthstar

Being a dick cost one person a job last night.

[Embedded content]

I have a 30-year-old KitchenAid mixer. I was going to replace it, but then I read some online reviews and I found out that on the newer models, all they did was install a larger bowl, but kept the same motor, so if you try and mix a really large batch of dough it will overheat and stall out. Oh, and their mixers are all made in China, the one that I have was made in the USA.

647 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:29:07am

re: #644 Sheeplord

Well, know that the Chabad-Lubavitcher kids in NYC are doing their people proud. They were pedaling furiously to get to their next destination, two kids on the bike-- though one could have ridden inside the sukkah, I think they thought that would be kind of undignified.

They were about thirteen or so. Got lots of smiles. And as they passed by the 92nd street Y they got quite a few shaloms and one assalamualaikum from the African Muslim security dude there.

You're in NYC? So maybe some of those kids were my grandkids, they go on mivtzoim on Chol Hamoed.

648 Big Steve  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:30:32am

re: #635 Sheeplord

In god's name why? It's going to push an enormous amount of cost onto seniors.

But don't they apply that to Romney too? I mean, he told quite a few direct lies in his speech, right? If you nodded with that, didn't you also then think "Well, that applies now" when Romney lied about pre-existing coverage?

And again, I didn't ask for your opinion about the political effects of the speech. I'm trying to talk to you about what you actually think about it, and not engage with this hypothesizing about other people's reactions.

Ok.....for the economy both candidates are soft pedaling the need to both have drastic reductions in spending AND increases in taxes. Romney claims he can reduce rates but off-set the revenue by eliminating deductions. That flat won't work because all those deductions will be hard fought for by those whom benefit. Obama claims he can increase revenue by hitting hard on the rich....that also won't work because you can literally take ALL of the money from everyone who makes over $200k/year and still not eliminate the deficit. So I think they are both playing smoke and mirrors.

On vouchers for medicare (and keep in mind I am 56 so both candidates claim I am unaffected)....well if the medicare program determines that they will front you X number of dollars per year in payments that you can elect to take elsewhere for your insurance, what is wrong with that. You can still stay in. I would suspect that what you get in payments is well under what medicare spends on you so that the system can stay operable for those who elect to use it.

Finally, Obama brought out that old saw about oil subsidies. So when in doubt bring out the all time punching bag of the oil industry. Romney nailed him. The subsidies that we in the oil industry get are to off-set rig costs and rig technicians. ALL industries get the same for set up of mfg sites. This is simply to ensure that taxes are on income after expenses. Obama knows this and the reason he hasn't gotten rid of these for the oil industry is that he would have to eliminate them for all industries. So bringing this up was disingeniousness.

649 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:31:26am

re: #611 Dustoff848

I'm not sure which was more enjoyable, watching Obama stand there like a dolt for an hour and a half or reading all the whining comments on this blog. Either way, it's a good start to the day.

It's actually possible to root for Mitt Romney without running down people are supporting Obama or being an ass. You should try it.

650 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:33:16am

re: #647 Sheila Broflovski

You're in NYC? So maybe some of those kids were my grandkids, they go on mivtzoim on Chol Hamoed.

Maybe so. They were super-serious about it, it was really adorable. Only a thirteen year old kid could really look serious while sitting on the handlebars of a bike.

Do Chabad-Lubavitchers start wearing the full adult outfit only after bar mitzvah? One of the kids had just a shirt and pants and kippeh, the other was fully togged out.

651 efuseakay  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:33:17am

re: #552 Cannadian Club Akbar

Clearwater police arrest man they say raped and impregnated 12-year-old
CLEARWATER — Authorities have arrested a 39-year-old man they said had sex multiple times with a 12-year-old girl in the past year.

The abuse came to light after the child recently discovered she was pregnant, Clearwater police said Wednesday. Officials arrested Cesar Ernesto Alcivar, of 2236 Gulf to Bay, Blvd, Lot 217, Tuesday night on a charge of capital sexual battery.

They said Alcivar had sex with the girl many times, starting when she was 11. The incidents happened in an undisclosed location in Clearwater. Police said a local hospital contacted them about the case. The victim's mother took her there because the girl was complaining of stomach pains. Doctors discovered the girl was pregnant.
Alcivar remained in the Pinellas County Jail without bail on Wednesday.
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]
In Florida, this means life. Enjoy your protective custody you POS.

Paul Ryan would force her to have that child.

652 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:34:34am

re: #650 Sheeplord

Maybe so. They were super-serious about it, it was really adorable. Only a thirteen year old kid could really look serious while sitting on the handlebars of a bike.

Do Chabad-Lubavitchers start wearing the full adult outfit only after bar mitzvah? One of the kids had just a shirt and pants and kippeh, the other was fully togged out.

After Bar Mitzvah they wear the hat and jacket, before BM just the shirt & kippah. You should have asked their names.

653 wheat-dogg  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:36:47am

re: #617 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

He claimed to be Welsh.

I want to see his birth certificate!

654 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:36:50am

re: #648 Big Steve

On vouchers for medicare (and keep in mind I am 56 so both candidates claim I am unaffected)....well if the medicare program determines that they will front you X number of dollars per year in payments that you can elect to take elsewhere for your insurance, what is wrong with that. You can still stay in. I would suspect that what you get in payments is well under what medicare spends on you so that the system can stay operable for those who elect to use it.

Meh, a purely optional voucher system would basically not work at all, because there wouldn't be any private systems that were remotely competitive. Private insurance is much more inefficient than public, and can't possibly offer prices as low. They need to rake off their profit.

I don't think that's what Romney was talking about-- he was pushing Ryan's plan, which is to completely change it over to vouchers, and to explicitly divorce the amount given from the amount actually needed. You know Ryan's plan, right?

Also, I think you missed this part:

But don't they apply that to Romney too? I mean, he told quite a few direct lies in his speech, right? If you nodded with that, didn't you also then think "Well, that applies now" when Romney lied about pre-existing coverage?

655 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:37:33am

re: #652 Sheila Broflovski

After Bar Mitzvah they wear the hat and jacket, before BM just the shirt & kippah. You should have asked their names.

Nah, they were on a mission from god.

If I'd know they might have been your grandsons, I would have.

656 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:38:42am

I bought seven jars of $2 jelly at Job/Odd? whatever lots, because they reminded me of the mustard jars my parents would reuse as drinking glasses. I am so sick of jelly right now.

657 SidewaysQuark  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:40:06am

People need to stop denying reality and admit Obama got his butt kicked. Sad truth is, substance doesn't matter here, it's the perception of the audience, and the polls have spoken on that count. The question is, how can he do better next time?

658 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:40:34am

re: #656 Shropshire_Slasher

I bought seven jars of $2 jelly at Job/Odd? whatever lots, because they reminded me of the mustard jars my parents would reuse as drinking glasses. I am so sick of jelly right now.

I love humanity.

659 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:41:46am

re: #656 Shropshire_Slasher

I bought seven jars of $2 jelly at Job/Odd? whatever lots, because they reminded me of the mustard jars my parents would reuse as drinking glasses. I am so sick of jelly right now.

Yea, too bad you couldn't transfer the jelly to another container instead of eating all of it. Or something.
/

660 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:42:52am
661 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:43:11am

LMHO

662 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:44:22am

re: #657 SidewaysQuark

People need to stop denying reality and admit Obama got his butt kicked. Sad truth is, substance doesn't matter here, it's the perception of the audience, and the polls have spoken on that count.

Except the debate doesn't happen in a vacuum. Romney did a lot better on style than Obama, yeah. But it also worsens his long-term problems of shifting his positions around, being vague, and lying.

Romney used a specific tactic: Lying his ass off and changing his positions. That comes with a price. Most people wanted Obama to exact that price on the stage. I'll admit that it seems to me that would have been better than letting it pass unchallenged. But it's not remaining unchallenged.

663 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:47:16am

re: #655 Sheeplord

Nah, they were on a mission from god.

If I'd know they might have been your grandsons, I would have.

Their names are Menachem Mendel and Shneur Zalman. :)

664 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:47:19am

re: #657 SidewaysQuark

Yeah, totally kicked! Just like he got kicked by McCain!

Oh, wait...

665 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:50:04am

So I have battling mice in my office for one week now. I have killed five, wounded one, and I have taken a hostage (his/her name is nibbles) I was talking to the guy upstairs and he says they usually get grey squirrels in this time of year as well. That explains my two missing traps. Time to get bigger traps. If I suddenly stop posting you kn

666 darthstar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:50:53am

re: #657 SidewaysQuark

People need to stop denying reality and admit Obama got his butt kicked. Sad truth is, substance doesn't matter here, it's the perception of the audience, and the polls have spoken on that count. The question is, how can he do better next time?

I don't think Obama did that well, but it wasn't an ass kicking. Mitt Romney's comment about firing Big Bird (even though he likes him) was a mistake (not to mention that PBS only gets about 26 MILLION (with an m) dollars a year from the government via the CPB...big cut there, Braveheart). He also admitted his medicare plan was a voucher system (as was his solution for education). And while people like Chuck Todd might think this is getting exciting, Romney looked and sounded like a nervous dickhead much of the night. And that's part of his character he cannot change.

667 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:51:09am

Quick question. When I used to do direct deposit, my money would be there on a Wednesday even though payday was Friday. I figured the minute the checks were sent out, the payroll money was there and that's why I had my money early. With my new job, payday is Monday but the HR woman said the money would be there Saturday. And FWIW, I work for a large corporation. Thoughts?

668 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:51:18am

re: #665 Shropshire_Slasher

I'd send in the space marines, but we know how that ended the last time.

I say we nuke it from orbit. That's the only way to be sure. /

669 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:51:39am

re: #665 Shropshire_Slasher

So I have battling mice in my office for one week now. I have killed five, wounded one, and I have taken a hostage (his/her name is nibbles) I was talking to the guy upstairs and he says they usually get grey squirrels in this time of year as well. That explains my two missing traps. Time to get bigger traps. If I suddenly stop posting you kn

Perhaps to it is time to find a Cat Overlord to submit to. They are known to reward their humans by killing mice.

670 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:52:06am

re: #552 Cannadian Club Akbar

Wait, was it legitimate?////

671 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:54:01am

re: #667 Cannadian Club Akbar

Quick question. When I used to do direct deposit, my money would be there on a Wednesday even though payday was Friday. I figured the minute the checks were sent out, the payroll money was there and that's why I had my money early. With my new job, payday is Monday but the HR woman said the money would be there Saturday. And FWIW, I work for a large corporation. Thoughts?

"Payday is Monday" meaning that is the day your timesheet is submitted to payroll. Then you should have your money by Friday, but, YMMV.

672 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:55:23am

re: #665 Shropshire_Slasher

So I have battling mice in my office for one week now. I have killed five, wounded one, and I have taken a hostage (his/her name is nibbles) I was talking to the guy upstairs and he says they usually get grey squirrels in this time of year as well. That explains my two missing traps. Time to get bigger traps. If I suddenly stop posting you kn

DO NOT EAT IN YOUR CUBICLE. DO NOT BRING FOOD TO YOUR WORK AREA.

Take your lunch in the cafeteria.

673 darthstar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:55:47am

re: #667 Cannadian Club Akbar

Quick question. When I used to do direct deposit, my money would be there on a Wednesday even though payday was Friday. I figured the minute the checks were sent out, the payroll money was there and that's why I had my money early. With my new job, payday is Monday but the HR woman said the money would be there Saturday. And FWIW, I work for a large corporation. Thoughts?

I get paid 15th and last day of the month. If payday falls on a weekend, the money's deposited on the Friday night before. If it's on a Monday, I see it over the weekend as well. Pay has to be available to you on payday, or it's considered late. Auto deposits work that way. A live check they can hand you at the office...and if you're not there(say sick), they still have it for you, though you can't access it. In this regard, auto-deposit is better.

674 EmmaAnne  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:56:11am

I'm sad that the President seemed kind of tired and lackluster last night. Unlike many, I don't wish he had gone after Romney for his inconsistencies. That is what 30 second ads are for. :-) I just wish he had put forth his own achievements and plans more convincingly.

However! This is definitely the debate that was always going to be the toughest for the President. He has always done better in town hall debates, and foreign policy is a much better arena for him than for Romney. So . . . onward.

675 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:57:08am

re: #671 Sheila Broflovski

"Payday is Monday" meaning that is the day your timesheet is submitted to payroll. Then you should have your money by Friday, but, YMMV.

This pay period ended Saturday. So payroll was Monday the 1st. Thanks.

676 Big Steve  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:57:44am

re: #666 darthstar

Romney looked and sounded like a nervous dickhead much of the night.

Not quite sure what you were watching but the Romney I saw was focused, had his wits about him, was humorous and when not speaking had a affable smile.

677 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:57:57am

re: #673 darthstar

Thanks.

678 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:57:59am

Asshole -->

679 SidewaysQuark  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:58:21am

re: #664 William Barnett-Lewis

Yeah, totally kicked! Just like he got kicked by McCain!

Oh, wait...

I never said this will make or break the election. It doesn't help Obama, though.

680 darthstar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:58:43am

re: #674 EmmaAnne

I'm sad that the President seemed kind of tired and lackluster last night. Unlike many, I don't wish he had gone after Romney for his inconsistencies. That is what 30 second ads are for. :-) I just wish he had put forth his own achievements and plans more convincingly.

However! This is definitely the debate that was always going to be the toughest for the President. He has always done better in town hall debates, and foreign policy is a much better arena for him than for Romney. So . . . onward.

Obama wasn't expecting blue-dog Democrat Romney last night and it surprised him. Still, he was calm and reserved, as a president should be. And we'll see a different Romney at the next debate...Warhawk Romney. And President Obama will look calm and thoughtful next to him...again...as a president should be.

681 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 6:59:17am

re: #660 Gus

[Embedded content]

Pity, Big Bird, I always liked you. But you've come under the heading of "asset we can cut" and that means you have to go.

682 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:00:00am

re: #681 Dark_Falcon

Pity, Big Bird, I always liked you. But you've come under the heading of "asset we can cut" and that means you have to go.

683 darthstar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:00:50am
684 darthstar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:01:19am

50 seconds...that's what I get for following the link first.

685 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:01:26am

re: #678 Gus

Asshole -->

686 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:02:03am

re: #685 Dark_Falcon

[Embedded content]

687 EmmaAnne  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:02:27am

re: #680 darthstar

Obama wasn't expecting blue-dog Democrat Romney last night and it surprised him.

Well, I must say I was pretty surprised when Mitt explained that he didn't want a big tax cut. Wait, what?

688 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:02:54am

re: #678 Gus

Asshole -->

[Embedded content]

Show this one to Killgore. His reaction will be... amusing.

689 makeitstop  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:03:16am

re: #628 Big Steve

Just about as funny as all those on the Democratic side who have be saying for weeks "I can't wait for the debates" suddenly hoping Biden can pull it off next week.

Yeah, I'm not among them.

Romney did more damage to his case than help last night. Once the sugar high wears off and the analysis of the facts starts appearing, people will realize that.

690 Sionainn  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:04:41am

re: #649 Dark_Falcon

It's actually possible to root for Mitt Romney without running down people are supporting Obama or being an ass. You should try it.

Thanks.

I've noticed on my FB that some of my Romney supporter friends don't post anything about where their candidate stands. Instead, they post about the stupidity of Obama supporters. It's funny because I posted back to one of those posts "I've been called a lot of things, but stupid isn't one of them." She then went on to tell me that I was way smarter than she would ever be, which made me shake my head.

I guess it's easier to insult people for who they support when they can't really get behind the policies of their candidate.

691 Sionainn  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:05:44am

re: #676 Big Steve

Not quite sure what you were watching but the Romney I saw was focused, had his wits about him, was humorous and when not speaking had a affable smile.

I guess your definition of an affable smile and mine are two completely different things.

692 Big Steve  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:07:28am

re: #674 EmmaAnne

I'm sad that the President seemed kind of tired and lackluster last night. Unlike many, I don't wish he had gone after Romney for his inconsistencies. That is what 30 second ads are for. :-) I just wish he had put forth his own achievements and plans more convincingly.

However! This is definitely the debate that was always going to be the toughest for the President. He has always done better in town hall debates, and foreign policy is a much better arena for him than for Romney. So . . . onward.

There seems to be a trend (Clinton as the exception) where sitting Presidents don't do well in the first debate and it sort of wakes them up. Surely part of it is not getting as much time to prepare but I believe that for four years and during their primary's they are used to having their staff present, maybe present alternative views, but then go along with the President. They are not used to having someone go toe to toe. At least President Obama didn't look at his watch last night (watches are now verboten for all candidate debates). He will do better in the next debate regardless of topic although with the Libya thing he will have to have a good response. If there were a debate focused solely on social issues he would clean up.

693 darthstar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:10:08am

"I like coal." That won back the miner vote.

694 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:10:39am

Wish I could give my opinion about the debate last night, but I was busy helping the economy. Don't know what to think except that it seems that the fact checkers had their hands full, and that Obama didn't come across as the great debater while Romney seems to have gotten the upper hand on first impressions.

Will that sway many people? Anyone? It might. That's why bipartisan Mitt was uploaded yesterday. He's got to peel off enough of those independents and uncertain voters by claiming that he'd be more bipartisan than Obama has been (which would ignore that the GOP policy since 2008 has to be obstructionist at every opportunity - even when Obama used GOP (and Romney) policies like the individual mandate as part of health care reform).

695 Big Steve  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:10:48am

re: #691 Sionainn

I guess your definition of an affable smile and mine are two completely different things.

Well if you believe Romney's mannerisms were "dickheaded" then I suppose your world is probably filled with them.

696 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:11:03am

re: #687 EmmaAnne

Well, I must say I was pretty surprised when Mitt explained that he didn't want a big tax cut. Wait, what?

Romney handled that part well and Obama was caught on the hop to some extent. The oil subsidies point, from what I understand, was another place where Romney was ready and more capable than assumed.

That's the good news for Mitt Romney: This debate was a must-win for him and he won it. But he also placed himself into positions he'll not be able to move away from again, and the Democrats can be counted on to direct as much fire on those positions as they can muster. He also demonstrated his debating ability to the president, and it was greater than Obama expected. But Obama is capable of adaptation to changed circumstances (with drone strikes being the most visible proof of this) so it is certain Obama will change his strategy in the second debate to counter Romney's expect strategy. Romney, for his part, will need to anticipate the changes Obama is likely to make and plan a few changes of his own to keep Obama guessing.

697 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:11:51am

re: #693 darthstar

"I like coal." That won back the miner vote.

Yeah he's got District 12 all locked up.

698 darthstar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:12:50am
699 SidewaysQuark  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:12:57am

re: #666 darthstar

I don't think Obama did that well, but it wasn't an ass kicking. Mitt Romney's comment about firing Big Bird (even though he likes him) was a mistake (not to mention that PBS only gets about 26 MILLION (with an m) dollars a year from the government via the CPB...big cut there, Braveheart). He also admitted his medicare plan was a voucher system (as was his solution for education). And while people like Chuck Todd might think this is getting exciting, Romney looked and sounded like a nervous dickhead much of the night. And that's part of his character he cannot change.

Maybe. I hope you're right, and that the long-term impact of the facts overwhelms the glitz.

For now, though, I think pretending Obama somehow "came out ahead" in this is absolutely no different than delusional stories of "biased polling" we've mocked on the Republican side for the last several weeks.

700 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:13:01am

re: #697 Sheila Broflovski

Yeah he's got District 12 all locked up.

+1 for the Hunger Games reference.

701 Sionainn  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:13:43am

re: #695 Big Steve

Well if you believe Romney's mannerisms were "dickheaded" then I suppose your world is probably filled with them.

I don't like people who smirk. I also don't like people who interrupt and talk over others. It's one of the reason why I hate a lot of people because there are many who are rude and inconsiderate.

702 lawhawk  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:16:48am

re: #693 darthstar

His attempts to curry favor with the defense industry are a clear ploy to win favor with District 2.

District 13 remains the wildcard.

703 darthstar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:16:48am

re: #687 EmmaAnne

Well, I must say I was pretty surprised when Mitt explained that he didn't want a big tax cut. Wait, what?

That's when Obama should have turned to Lehrer and said, "I think you guys brought out the wrong model. This Romney was recalled in 2007."

704 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:16:48am

re: #698 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Anyone who can pass that course is pretty badass. As long as the no-slack tradition is upheld, I have no problem placing a woman who passes it in a combat role.

That such a posting will drive misogynistic religious conservatives both of the Evangelical Protestant Christian and Radical Islamic persuasions nuts is an added bonus.

705 kirkspencer  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:18:30am

re: #693 darthstar

"I like coal." That won back the miner vote.

Only till they remember he also said, "I like Big Bird."

706 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:19:25am

re: #702 lawhawk

His attempts to curry favor with the defense industry are a clear ploy to win favor with District 2.

District 13 remains the wildcard.

They mine uranium and Mitt's promised to speed up approval for new nuclear plants. He'll win 13 walking away.

///

707 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:19:34am

re: #705 kirkspencer

Only till they remember he also said, "I like Big Bird."

You need a canary in the coal mine. Kinda the same.
///

708 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:24:59am

Last night's lesson seemed to be two-fold: 1) Willard is gonna bullshit his way through the debates, making holding him to anything he says before them pointless and 2) Obama will get a better response by just calling Willard on his bullshit out loud than spending time debunking it.

709 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:26:12am

BBT

710 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:26:23am

Mitt Romney: What a Guy

Youtube Video
711 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:27:04am

AS WHAT, A LYING ASSHOLE?

712 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:30:37am

Moonbats are pissed at media for reporting that Mitt won the debate.
Punish CNN for Bogus Poll: Remove Candy Crowley as a Moderator

713 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:31:15am

Good morning lizards!

714 danarchy  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:31:23am

re: #696 Dark_Falcon

He also demonstrated his debating ability to the president, and it was greater than Obama expected. But Obama is capable of adaptation to changed circumstances (with drone strikes being the most visible proof of this) so it is certain Obama will change his strategy in the second debate to counter Romney's expect strategy.

I'm sure Obama would like to Drone Romney, I'm not sure he'd be able to do it at a debate setting without significant collateral damage

//

715 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:32:41am

re: #713 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards!

I refuse to recognize this "morning." I demand that burning ball of gas in the sky be extinguished immediately!

//

716 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:32:51am

re: #712 Killgore Trout

Moonbats are pissed at media for reporting that Mitt won the debate.
Punish CNN for Bogus Poll: Remove Candy Crowley as a Moderator

Those people need a brown paper bag to either breathe into or drink out of!!!
ZING!!!!

717 kirkspencer  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:34:08am

re: #712 Killgore Trout

Moonbats are pissed at media for reporting that Mitt won the debate.
Punish CNN for Bogus Poll: Remove Candy Crowley as a Moderator

Actually, I'm pissed at CNN for their poll. 430 respondents, and the crosstabs say the number of people who were outside the south, non-white, and/or under 50 were so small they can't be used as a statistical sample.

In other words, "Here's what America thinks, based on a poll of senior white southerners."

718 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:36:04am

re: #717 kirkspencer

Actually, I'm pissed at CNN for their poll. 430 respondents, and the crosstabs say the number of people who were outside the south, non-white, and/or under 50 were so small they can't be used as a statistical sample.

In other words, "Here's what America thinks, based on a poll of senior white southerners."

719 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:36:19am

A serious tweet from a serious person.

721 efuseakay  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:38:26am

re: #628 Big Steve

Just about as funny as all those on the Democratic side who have be saying for weeks "I can't wait for the debates" suddenly hoping Biden can pull it off next week.

Reading comprehension is your friend. Key word here being debates. Don't worry. Your dog in the fight won't be able to keep up his guard.

722 efuseakay  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:41:49am

Wonder what Romney's positions will be in the next debate. Definitely not the ones he had last night.

723 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:42:21am
724 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:43:04am

HuffPo declares Mitt the winner of Debate I, but he's still behind POTUS by 100 projected electoral votes.

725 Kaessa  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:43:40am

re: #646 Sheila Broflovski

I have a 30-year-old KitchenAid mixer. I was going to replace it, but then I read some online reviews and I found out that on the newer models, all they did was install a larger bowl, but kept the same motor, so if you try and mix a really large batch of dough it will overheat and stall out. Oh, and their mixers are all made in China, the one that I have was made in the USA.

They do make some models with the larger motor and metal gearing... you just need to make sure you don't buy them from WalMart. They cut costs on the ones they sell to WalMart by using plastic gears and gear box housings.

I have a KitchenAid Pro mixer that I bought 5 years ago directly from KitchenAid, and that thing will chew through a huge batch of sourdough bread. I've never had it stall or slow down.

726 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:44:18am

re: #724 Sheila Broflovski

HuffPo declares Mitt the winner of Debate I, but he's still behind POTUS by 100 projected electoral votes.

727 Mattand  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:46:12am

Anyone else get the feeling that the "fuck you, Big Bird" comment was one of the zingers Mitt's been working on since August?

728 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:46:24am
729 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:46:26am

re: #724 Sheila Broflovski

HuffPo declares Mitt the winner of Debate I, but he's still behind POTUS by 100 projected electoral votes.

Mitt's performance last night was good enough to get him a bump in the polls but probably not enough to push him over the top in swing states. I still think it's unlikely he'll win it might be a possibility if the other debates go down like this one did.

730 Lidane  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:46:42am

re: #712 Killgore Trout

Moonbats are pissed at media for reporting that Mitt won the debate.
Punish CNN for Bogus Poll: Remove Candy Crowley as a Moderator

No, they're rightly pissed that CNN's idea of a poll was basically the Faux News demographic -- old white Southern conservatives. Look at the crosstabs. Anyone who wasn't any of those things was such a small part of their sample they couldn't be counted.

731 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:47:34am

re: #727 Mattand

Anyone else get the feeling that the "fuck you, Big Bird" comment was one of the zingers Mitt's been working on since August?

Actually, I think the whole "zinger" thing was Mitt's campaign having some fun with the press. They do seem to have a sense of humor.

732 Sionainn  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:48:02am

re: #725 Kaessa

They do make some models with the larger motor and metal gearing... you just need to make sure you don't buy them from WalMart. They cut costs on the ones they sell to WalMart by using plastic gears and gear box housings.

I have a KitchenAid Pro mixer that I bought 5 years ago directly from KitchenAid, and that thing will chew through a huge batch of sourdough bread. I've never had it stall or slow down.

I got a KitchenAid Pro mixer, too. It was pricey, but well worth the money, I think.

733 Mattand  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:48:39am

re: #730 Lidane

No, they're rightly pissed that CNN's idea of a poll was basically the Faux News demographic -- old white Southern conservatives. Look at the crosstabs. Anyone who wasn't any of those things was such a small part of their sample they couldn't be counted.

I really try to ignore polls. They can be so easily manipulated five ways to Sunday. And you point out, you've really got to understand statistics and who they actually talked to in order to get any real info out of them.

734 Mattand  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:51:16am

re: #731 Killgore Trout

Actually, I think the whole "zinger" thing was Mitt's campaign having some fun with the press. They do seem to have a sense of humor.

Eh, not so sure about that. Personally, I have yet to see this vaunted sense of humor Romney's camp always goes on about. And the whole PBS thing stinks of "Hey, remember that spam mail from years ago about Republicans canceling Sesame Street? That'll show those libruls we mean business."

736 Lidane  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:52:26am

re: #731 Killgore Trout

Would you just admit you're going to vote Romney already? At least DF is honest about his politics instead trying to pretend to be something he's not.

737 MichaelJ  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:52:42am

Mitt lied with conviction, repeating lies that have been thoroughly debunked for years, yet people think he won? So, I'm guessing that honesty is unimportant these days. Obama stretched the truth a bit, but Romney flat out lied. Personality is more important than truth. This is a big problem.

738 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:53:09am

re: #733 Mattand

I really try to ignore polls. They can be so easily manipulated five ways to Sunday. And you point out, you've really got to understand statistics and who they actually talked to in order to get any real info out of them.

But, but, they're polls!!!
///I've been saying the same thing for years but some like to disagree.

739 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:53:24am

re: #732 Sionainn

I got a KitchenAid Pro mixer, too. It was pricey, but well worth the money, I think.

If I decide to replace my old KitchenAid I will probably get a Viking.

740 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:54:06am

I had work to do last night. I missed all but a few minutes of the debate, so I'm a little shocked at how wrong Mitt's critics were about what his performance would be. What happened to "sleepless Mitt"?

I have a feeling Mitt would have gained less momentum from the perception of his performance than if his critics had acknowledged him as a skilled debater.

741 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:54:47am

re: #735 Killgore Trout

May as well included these guys
Factcheck
[Link: factcheck.org...]

742 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:55:27am
743 kirkspencer  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:55:38am

re: #737 MichaelJ

Mitt lied with conviction, repeating lies that have been thoroughly debunked for years, yet people think he won? So, I'm guessing that honesty is unimportant these days. Obama stretched the truth a bit, but Romney flat out lied. Personality is more important than truth. This is a big problem.

And in answer, I've got right-side acquaintances saying it doesn't matter, that appearance trumps what's said. "Remember Nixon."

As I told them, let's wait and see what the consensus is after the weekend. Monday and Tuesday's reports will tell us whether the lies and firing Big Bird matter or not.

744 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:55:55am

re: #734 Mattand

Eh, not so sure about that. Personally, I have yet to see this vaunted sense of humor Romney's camp always goes on about. And the whole PBS thing stinks of "Hey, remember that spam mail from years ago about Republicans canceling Sesame Street? That'll show those libruls we mean business."

The whole big bird meme going around today can safely be ignored. It's a distraction. Dems need to wise up and get serious. Memes and slacktivists retweeting hashtags isn't serious.

745 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:55:58am

Factchecker Wars!

746 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:56:17am

Heh.
[Link: www.nbcphiladelphia.com...]

747 Sionainn  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:56:33am

re: #741 Daniel Ballard

May as well included these guys
Factcheck
[Link: factcheck.org...]

I like how they have the sources at the end of theirs.

748 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:57:12am

re: #739 Sheila Broflovski

You should be able to find someone that can repair/rebuild the older better machine. We use those in jewelry casting to mix the plaster slurry platinum is cast into. The old machines are treasured and rebuilt rather than replaced.

749 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:57:19am

re: #740 Daniel Ballard

I have a feeling Mitt would have gained less momentum from the perception of his performance than if his critics had acknowledged him as a skilled debater.

Agreed.

750 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:58:04am

The tingles up his leg are gone...

Chris Matthews Freaks Out At Obama: "What Was He Doing?"

751 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:58:05am

The left needs to focus on what kind of healthcare women in Kansas, Louisiana, Arkansas and Texas will get compared to what women in California will get if Mitt gets them to eat vouchercare.

752 kirkspencer  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:58:18am

re: #744 Killgore Trout

The whole big bird meme going around today can safely be ignored. It's a distraction. Dems need to wise up and get serious. Memes and slacktivists retweeting hashtags isn't serious.

Yep. After all, just look at how nobody talks any more about the 1 and 99 percenters.

//

753 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:58:26am

re: #748 Daniel Ballard

You should be able to find someone that can repair/rebuild the older better machine. We use those in jewelry casting to mix the plaster slurry platinum is cast into. The old machines are treasured and rebuilt rather than replaced.

You can generally find old Kitchenaide or Hobart mixers on Ebay. I like Hobart.

754 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:58:27am

re: #746 Cannadian Club Akbar

Heh.
[Link: www.nbcphiladelphia.com...]

Not cool on the teacher's part.
Oh, and good morning everyone!

755 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:58:39am

re: #739 Sheila Broflovski

If I decide to replace my old KitchenAid I will probably get a Viking.

I hear they're horny!!

Image: nordic_helmet.JPG

756 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:59:02am

re: #736 Lidane

Would you just admit you're going to vote Romney already? At least DF is honest about his politics instead trying to pretend to be something he's not.

Oh, but first he has to troll more and express more "concern" about Moonbats & OWS & the Reds under his bed... and even then he'll still lie that he really likes Obama he's just "concerned"...

But the real difference is that DF is a decent person.

757 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:59:07am

re: #748 Daniel Ballard

You should be able to find someone that can repair/rebuild the older better machine. We use those in jewelry casting to mix the plaster slurry platinum is cast into. The old machines are treasured and rebuilt rather than replaced.

I had my old mixer tuned five years ago and it runs great! The only drawback is that it's not big enough to handle the amount of dough I want to knead at one time, and I have to mix my bread in two batches.

758 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:59:11am

I see Romney gets the white male support even here.

759 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:59:15am

re: #750 NJDhockeyfan

The tingles up his leg are gone...

Chris Matthews Freaks Out At Obama: "What Was He Doing?"

Yeah, that's pretty funny.

760 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:59:28am

The left needs to contrast Mitt's vulture / wild west capitalism with the mixed economy strategy that we've pursued ever since WW II.

761 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 7:59:58am

{sigh}

762 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:01:34am

re: #744 Killgore Trout

The whole big bird meme going around today can safely be ignored. It's a distraction. Dems need to wise up and get serious. Memes and slacktivists retweeting hashtags isn't serious.

Yep, just like that 47% meme had no impact.

Wait, What?

////

"Concern" #1.

763 efuseakay  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:02:02am

re: #725 Kaessa

They do make some models with the larger motor and metal gearing... you just need to make sure you don't buy them from WalMart. They cut costs on the ones they sell to WalMart by using plastic gears and gear box housings.

I have a KitchenAid Pro mixer that I bought 5 years ago directly from KitchenAid, and that thing will chew through a huge batch of sourdough bread. I've never had it stall or slow down.

I've had my KitcheAid for more than 10 years. One if the lift models. The tilting ones aren't as good. It's served me well. Both that and my Vitamix are 2 of the best investments I've made.

764 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:03:11am

re: #763 efuseakay

I've had my KitcheAid for more than 10 years. One if the lift models. The tilting ones aren't as good. It's served me well. Both that and my Vitamix are 2 of the best investments I've made.

Do you have a meat grinding attachment?

765 Mattand  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:03:12am

re: #744 Killgore Trout

The whole big bird meme going around today can safely be ignored. It's a distraction. Dems need to wise up and get serious. Memes and slacktivists retweeting hashtags isn't serious.

That was kind of my take. Part of it was disbelief that Mitt would say something that inane, but it plays well to the people who think the government funds Bert & Ernie's flagrantly satanic homosexual lifestyle.

766 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:03:22am

re: #730 Lidane

But it's not just CNN. The broad perception is Mitt did way better than expected and better than Obama. Remember this is about initial perception of the performance, not a post fact check evaluation of accuracy.

Romney's big night
The first presidential debate was Republican candidate Mitt Romney's best moment of the campaign so far; CBS

NBC
Romney comes to play, outduels Obama in debate

Romney Dominates In Denver, But The Proof Will Be In The Polling
ABC News

767 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:03:28am

The left needs to point out that Mitt's jobs numbers are already what we are getting under Obama (Mitts' committment is just projecting the current trend over a term of four years - we will get the same or better under Obama)

768 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:03:42am

re: #763 efuseakay

I've had my KitcheAid for more than 10 years. One if the lift models. The tilting ones aren't as good. It's served me well. Both that and my Vitamix are 2 of the best investments I've made.

I've got a tilting one (never had a lift version)

Why do you think it's better?

(in the market for a new one soon)

769 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:04:10am

As for me, I'm gonna chalk up last night's debate as a learning experience.
It was a mistake to underestimate Mitt.
He's a liar, but when he lies, he does it with style.

770 Lidane  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:04:41am

re: #756 William Barnett-Lewis

Oh, but first he has to troll more and express more "concern" about Moonbats & OWS & the Reds under his bed... and even then he'll still lie that he really likes Obama he's just "concerned"...

But the real difference is that DF is a decent person.

I disagree with DF a lot, but he's upfront about his politics and his thoughts on things. I can respect that a great deal.

All this bullshit concern trolling is getting tedious.

771 iossarian  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:04:55am

"Slacktivists aren't going to get it done."

-- Anonymous web forum poster, 2012.

772 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:05:03am

re: #769 Reverend Mother Ramallo

As for me, I'm gonna chalk up last night's debate as a learning experience.
It was a mistake to underestimate Mitt.
He's a liar, but when he lies, he does it with style.

Yep very baldfaced about it. He'd be better as a used car salesman than as president.

773 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:05:25am

re: #770 Lidane

All this bullshit concern trolling is getting tedious

So is the labeling!

774 MichaelJ  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:06:12am

re: #740 Daniel Ballard

It's a sorry state of affairs when a person can come across as a skilled debater by reversing positions on the spot and telling outright lies with charisma and conviction. This isn't reality TV, this stuff actually matters.

775 Mattand  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:06:19am

re: #769 Reverend Mother Ramallo

As for me, I'm gonna chalk up last night's debate as a learning experience.
It was a mistake to underestimate Mitt.
He's a liar, but when he lies, he does it with style.

You know, this is a great take on the whole situation. I'm sure Obama fudged some stuff as well, but Romney and his campaign are practically on record as saying they don't care whether their messages are accurate or not.

776 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:06:22am

I didn't watch last night. Heard parts of it from the other room. I'm tired of debates.

I'll not be voting for the GOP this time around.

How is your morning?

777 iossarian  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:07:40am

re: #773 sattv4u2

All this bullshit concern trolling is getting tedious

So is the labeling!

A great way to avoid the "concern troll" label is to not concern troll in the first place (and this is not directed at you, just to be clear).

778 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:07:50am

Obama should have pointed out how Mitt wants to kill federal programs by dumping huge unfunded mandates on states that are already struggling.

779 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:07:51am

re: #774 MichaelJ

It's a sorry state of affairs when a person can come across as a skilled debater by reversing positions on the spot and telling outright lies with charisma and conviction. This isn't reality TV, this stuff actually matters.

Agreed in full. It's the nature of our entertainment driven culture. IMHO.

780 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:09:01am

re: #777 iossarian

A great way to avoid the "concern troll" label is to not concern troll in the first place (and this is not directed at you, just to be clear).

Understood (and thanks)

But now it's become a sad pattern. Anytime he expresses an opinion, no matter how benign, he called a name. It is tedious

781 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:09:31am

Why would anyone vote for a party that has made it perfectly clear that 1/2 it's constituency doesn't count as human. Not 3/5's, ZERO.

That's less than the Constitution considered African-Americans.

782 iossarian  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:09:39am

re: #778 Randall Gross

Obama should have pointed out how Mitt wants to kill federal programs by dumping huge unfunded mandates on states that are already struggling.

Obama should have pointed out that Mitt basically reversed position on almost every single policy point during the debate.

I'm beginning to agree with the POV I read online, namely that Obama's taking the view that he's winning unless Mitt can get him to screw up in a major way - get angry and come across as snide or condescending. So he's happy to soak up a bit of aggression and avoid that risk.

We shall see.

BIAB.

783 MichaelJ  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:09:57am

re: #779 Daniel Ballard

Agreed in full. It's the nature of our entertainment driven culture. IMHO.

The dumbing down of America continues!

784 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:09:59am

re: #769 Reverend Mother Ramallo

As for me, I'm gonna chalk up last night's debate as a learning experience.
It was a mistake to underestimate Mitt.
He's a liar, but when he lies, he does it with style.

I dub it a half-debate, because Obama came there to argue the facts. Romney came there to give stump speeches.

785 Lidane  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:10:27am

re: #780 sattv4u2

Understood (and thanks)

But now it's become a sad pattern. Anytime he expresses an opinion, no matter how benign, he called a name. It is tedious

Maybe if an actual opinion was expressed instead of the usual garbage, there might not be a need for a label.

786 Kaessa  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:10:35am

re: #768 sattv4u2

I've got a tilting one (never had a lift version)

Why do you think it's better?

(in the market for a new one soon)

The lift ones have a much larger bowl and motor. Look at the "Pro" models.

787 blueraven  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:10:44am

re: #778 Randall Gross

Obama should have pointed out how Mitt wants to kill federal programs by dumping huge unfunded mandates on states that are already struggling.

Well that's the problem. Obama didn't put Mitt on the defense over anything.
Romney clearly won the debate on style...on substance, he was pretty sketchy.

788 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:10:47am

re: #779 Daniel Ballard

Agreed in full. It's the nature of our entertainment driven culture. IMHO.

And many here hooted down AlbuSteve for his AmerIdol references

heh

789 iossarian  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:10:53am

re: #780 sattv4u2

Understood (and thanks)

But now it's become a sad pattern. Anytime he expresses an opinion, no matter how benign, he called a name. It is tedious

As many people have pointed out already, the contrast with DF is instructive. But I do agree we should always strive for civility.

Really BIAB this time.

790 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:11:14am

re: #778 Randall Gross

Obama should have pointed out how Mitt wants to kill federal programs by dumping huge unfunded mandates on states that are already struggling.

And further the disparages of Justice and Human Rights within these United States.

It's become very clear that the States cannot be trusted to treat each of us as human beings.

I've always believed that federalism was an important facet in checks and balances that keep us from falling to tyranny. Now, I think it only allows tyrants to claim their own little fiefdoms within states.

791 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:11:30am

re: #785 Lidane

Maybe if an actual opinion was expressed instead of the usual garbage, there might not be a need for a label.

They are "actual opinions"

In that you don;t like the opinion is a different matter altogether

792 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:11:45am

This is like the first quarter of a basketball game. The difference in Obamas strategy between this debate and the next one will be interesting.

793 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:12:08am

re: #789 iossarian

As many people have pointed out already, the contrast with DF is instructive. But I do agree we should always strive for civility.

Really BIAB this time.

highlighted just because

794 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:12:24am

re: #768 sattv4u2

I've got a tilting one (never had a lift version)

Why do you think it's better?

(in the market for a new one soon)

The lift bowl is larger.

795 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:12:38am

re: #786 Kaessa

The lift ones have a much larger bowl and motor. Look at the "Pro" models.

Thanks
Checking the web for deals now

796 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:12:53am

re: #792 Daniel Ballard

This is like the first quarter of a basketball game. The difference in Obamas strategy between this debate and the next one will be interesting.

On that we can agree, this was the big game, just part of it. Obama can still come back, while capitalizing on Romney's over-extension last night.

797 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:12:54am

re: #785 Lidane

Maybe if an actual opinion was expressed instead of the usual garbage, there might not be a need for a label.

Opinions are like assholes.

798 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:12:55am

re: #794 Sheila Broflovski

The lift bowl is larger.

Thanks
(795)

799 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:13:11am

re: #794 Sheila Broflovski

The lift bowl is larger.

I had a 20QT.

800 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:13:54am

re: #744 Killgore Trout

The whole big bird meme going around today can safely be ignored. It's a distraction. Dems need to wise up and get serious. Memes and slacktivists retweeting hashtags isn't serious.

It's not a distraction, it's a simple way of bringing attention to Romney's absurd claim that PBS is somehow a big driver of the deficit. When the moderator asks a question about cutting the deficit, and one of the candidates respond with cutting somewhere in the neighborhood of one-one thousandth of the budget, how does anybody take it seriously?

Granted, it may sound childish to attack a candidate as "wanting to kill Big Bird," but if that's what it takes to bring attention to the above, then so be it.

801 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:13:59am

re: #793 sattv4u2

highlighted just because

You are correct. DF has grown in the last year. Not much, but I have seen some realization of the current circumstances.

The "loyalty" trait of conservatives is very difficult to overcome. Even a little change is a big deal.

802 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:14:27am

re: #799 Cannadian Club Akbar

I had a 20QT.

That for food service professionals.

803 Kaessa  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:14:56am

re: #795 sattv4u2

Thanks
Checking the web for deals now

If it helps at all, this is the one I have. In Empire Red. I love it.

804 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:15:23am

re: #801 ggt

The "loyalty" trait of conservatives is very difficult to overcome.

Cuts both ways, GGT, cuts both ways

805 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:16:14am

re: #802 Sheila Broflovski

That for food service professionals.

I actually had it at my house. Dude owed me money.:(
Sold it to a food service pro, though. I worked at a place w/ a 60 QT. Pizza place, obviously.

806 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:16:32am

re: #803 Kaessa

If it helps at all, this is the one I have. In Empire Red. I love it.

Perfect, actually

All our cookware is KitcheAid Red

807 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:17:03am

re: #804 sattv4u2

The "loyalty" trait of conservatives is very difficult to overcome.

Cuts both ways, GGT, cuts both ways

hmmm. Yes and no. The Conservative male seems to be very militaristic. That has a code of it's own that I don't see in Liberals.

808 Lidane  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:17:40am

re: #800 Ghost of Tom Joad

It's not a distraction, it's a simple way of bringing attention to Romney's absurd claim that PBS is somehow a big driver of the deficit. When the moderator asks a question about cutting the deficit, and one of the candidates respond with cutting somewhere in the neighborhood of one-one thousandth of the budget, how does anybody take it seriously?

EXACTLY. It's like wanting to cut NASA to save money. WTF. NASA doesn't even get a penny out of every dollar we spend.

If it takes saying that he wants to fire Big Bird to point out to people that Mitt's solutions of cutting off PBS is like using a Band-Aid to treat a gaping chest wound, then so be it.

809 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:17:46am

re: #807 ggt

hmmm. Yes and no. The Conservative male seems to be very militaristic. That has a code of it's own that I don't see in Liberals.

Go to a protest rally someday

810 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:17:57am

[Link: twitter.com...]

811 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:20:01am

re: #810 Sheila Broflovski

[Link: twitter.com...]

Someone posted that on FB last night with the caption, "This shit just got real". Heh.

812 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:20:01am

re: #807 ggt

hmmm. Yes and no. The Conservative male seems to be very militaristic. That has a code of it's own that I don't see in Liberals.

From what I've gathered, conservatives seem to be very rooted to their 'cause' while the left (whatever term folks want to use) seem to be more enamored with people (figureheads or what have you like Clinton and Obama).

813 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:23:10am
814 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:25:51am

Gore blames Obama performance on altitude.

Youtube Video
815 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:27:11am

re: #814 Cannadian Club Akbar

Gore blames Obama performance on altitude.

[Embedded content]

Michael Moore blames John Kerry

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

'This is what happens when u pick John Kerry as your debate coach'

816 Gus  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:28:48am

Fuck Romney. Obama won.

817 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:30:40am

re: #814 Cannadian Club Akbar

Gore blames Obama performance on altitude.

[Embedded content]

Maybe Mitt's advantage was his ignorance about airplane windows.
/

818 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:30:49am

Just saw Chris Matthews from last night...
Damn, simmer down Francis !

819 Big Steve  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:30:56am

re: #816 Gus

Fuck Romney. Obama won.

And Obama should approach the next two debates exactly the same way!

820 makeitstop  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:31:09am

re: #750 NJDhockeyfan

The tingles up his leg are gone...

Chris Matthews Freaks Out At Obama: "What Was He Doing?"

KT used that joke last night. Try a teleprompter joke instead.
/

821 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:31:44am

re: #817 Killgore Trout

Maybe Mitt's advantage was his ignorance about airplane windows.
/

His advantage was lying a lot and changing his positions.

That, and that Obama isn't a fiery debater, whether on purpose or due to lack of ability, who knows.

822 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:32:33am

re: #817 Killgore Trout

Maybe Mitt's advantage was his ignorance about airplane windows.
/

Magic Underwear performs better at altitude

823 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:33:00am

re: #812 Ghost of Tom Joad

From what I've gathered, conservatives seem to be very rooted to their 'cause' while the left (whatever term folks want to use) seem to be more enamored with people (figureheads or what have you like Clinton and Obama).

I think I got the loyalty meme from this.

824 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:33:14am

re: #744 Killgore Trout

The whole big bird meme going around today can safely be ignored. It's a distraction. Dems need to wise up and get serious. Memes and slacktivists retweeting hashtags isn't serious.

Just for the hell of it, what would 'getting serious' involve?

825 makeitstop  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:34:00am

re: #778 Randall Gross

Obama should have pointed out how Mitt wants to kill federal programs by dumping huge unfunded mandates on states that are already struggling.

I think he did that a couple of times, in between Romney talking over him and haranguing Lehrer.

826 Lidane  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:35:37am

re: #824 Sheeplord

Just for the hell of it, what would 'getting serious' involve?

Sending OWS to Gitmo, of course.

827 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:36:37am

re: #826 Lidane

Sending OWS to Gitmo, of course.

Sending Code Pink to Afghanistan. Oh wait, they sent themselves there (almost).
//

828 lostlakehiker  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:36:42am

re: #512 engineer cat

i'm amazed at how easily republican propaganda victims are convinced that the national debt will be required to be paid in full very soon

and your point is?

you do realize that the united states government gets the lowest interest rates in the universe, don't you?

Barfly didn't say anything about the principle having to be paid off quickly. You do realize that the U.S. cannot control what interest rates it gets? That those rates can change? That as the ratio of debt to GDP rises, they will change?

The point implicit in the argument that debt doesn't matter because it will never need to be repaid is that the plan is not to repay. If it's not repaid, then whoever lent the money is out of luck. If it's "repaid" by inflating the currency, which seems to be the real plan, then whoever held money in the bank, or bought bonds, or did any other middle class prudent thing, is out of luck. So now we're clear: the plan is to screw the middle class. The rich won't be hit that hard by inflation. They have enough money that they can take some chances and keep their wealth in inflation-proof assets. The poor don't have any money to be inflated away. Since somebody has to be the loser when the government borrows and then doesn't repay, that leaves the middle class.

It's an attractive strategy. Those bourgeois bozos deserve every penny they don't get. But the consequences to society of teaching everyone that looking to the future and trying to be self reliant is a fool's game are profound and severe. What is the point of school, then? What is the point of getting an education? Takes too long, no quick payout.

829 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:37:26am

re: #824 Sheeplord

Just for the hell of it, what would 'getting serious' involve?

Being "concerned" probably.

830 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:37:35am

Manson follower tries for parole.
[Link: hosted.ap.org...]

831 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:37:41am

re: #826 Lidane

Sending OWS to Gitmo, of course.

Part of the reason we're seeing Obama so far ahead right now is because of the great deal of seriousness with which his campaign and allies have approached things like get out the vote efforts, phone banking, fighting back against voter suppression laws, etc. They have a seriously good ground game going on.

832 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:38:36am

re: #823 ggt

Bookmarked for later, thanks.

833 danarchy  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:39:08am

re: #825 makeitstop

I think he did that a couple of times, in between Romney talking over him and haranguing Lehrer.

Seeing as how the president had almost a 4 and a half minute advantage in talk time he couldn't have been talked over that badly.

834 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:39:42am

re: #828 lostlakehiker

Barfly didn't say anything about the principle having to be paid off quickly. You do realize that the U.S. cannot control what interest rates it gets?

Er, yes it can. That's what bonds are: A set, specific interest rate. Do you seriously not know this?

The point implicit in the argument that debt doesn't matter because it will never need to be repaid is that the plan is not to repay. If it's not repaid, then whoever lent the money is out of luck.

The capital gets repaid all the time. People cash in their bonds. I just did the other day.

Do you actually think people hold onto bonds past their maturation date, past the date they're earning interest?

835 Lidane  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:40:08am

re: #827 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Sending Code Pink to Afghanistan. Oh wait, they sent themselves there (almost).
//

They're more than welcome to go. Code Pink was irrelevant during the run-up to the Iraq War and they're even more of a joke now. There's what, 30-40 people in it at most? Pfft.

836 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:40:20am

re: #830 Cannadian Club Akbar

Manson follower tries for parole.
[Link: hosted.ap.org...]

How did that work out for you,, the last 26 times you tried it, Brucie

837 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:40:53am

re: #836 sattv4u2

How did that work out for you,, the last 26 times you tried it, Brucie

Well they do say insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and hoping it will work..........

838 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:40:57am

re: #833 danarchy

Seeing as how the president had almost a 4 and a half minute advantage in talk time he couldn't have been talked over that badly.

The debate seemed civil and neither candidate was trying to bully the moderator. I think he was right to not be too strict about time controls.

839 makeitstop  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:41:43am

re: #833 danarchy

Seeing as how the president had almost a 4 and a half minute advantage in talk time he couldn't have been talked over that badly.

Did you watch the debate? Romney spent 25% his time yelling at Lehrer and talking over people, and 25% demanding the last word.

The other half, of course, was the bald-faced lying.

840 Sionainn  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:42:51am

re: #739 Sheila Broflovski

If I decide to replace my old KitchenAid I will probably get a Viking.

I just looked it up on the KitchenAid site since I was curious about where it was made. I got the Pro 600 and it says "assembled with pride in Greenville, Ohio."

841 Lidane  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:42:56am

re: #831 Sheeplord

Part of the reason we're seeing Obama so far ahead right now is because of the great deal of seriousness with which his campaign and allies have approached things like get out the vote efforts, phone banking, fighting back against voter suppression laws, etc. They have a seriously good ground game going on.

I don't know why anyone underestimates his ground game. Barack Obama ran circles around the vaunted Clinton machine, FFS. He took the Howard Dean idea of a 50-state strategy seriously and works hard at retail campaigning, as you point out.

A single debate where he's clearly tired and off balance isn't going to swing the election.

842 kirkspencer  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:43:20am

Worth (I think) pointing out: there are very few people who have not decided for whom they're going to vote. There aren't even that many who are being coy and claiming they haven't decided yet.

The debates give the candidates a chance to change minds. And that is not what Romney accomplished. I don't think any people who leaned to favoring Obama are now leaning toward Romney.

843 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:43:44am

re: #838 Killgore Trout

The debate seemed civil and neither candidate was trying to bully the moderator. I think he was right to not be too strict about time controls.

When the debate is 90 minutes about domestic issues, yet they never move beyond budgets and taxes, then I'd say the moderator was negligent in doing his job.

844 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:44:25am

re: #838 Killgore Trout

The debate seemed civil and neither candidate was trying to bully the moderator. I think he was right to not be too strict about time controls.

I'm gonna have to disagree with that one.
I'm watching Romney walk all over Lehrer right now.
Mitt flustered Jim more than once.

845 Lidane  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:45:09am

re: #843 Targetpractice

When the debate is 90 minutes about domestic issues, yet they never move beyond budgets and taxes, then I'd say the moderator was negligent in doing his job.

THIS.

It was all budget and taxes. No mentions of education, poverty, women, immigration, etc. Those aren't domestic issues?

846 danarchy  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:45:28am

re: #839 makeitstop

Did you watch the debate? Romney spent 25% his time yelling at Lehrer and talking over people, and 25% demanding the last word.

The other half, of course, was the bald-faced lying.

Yep, sure did, and when the moderator is failing to control the clock and the other guy is getting more air time you do what you have to to get a word in. Are you denying Obama had more air time?

847 Obdicut  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:45:56am

re: #843 Targetpractice

When the debate is 90 minutes about domestic issues, yet they never move beyond budgets and taxes, then I'd say the moderator was negligent in doing his job.

Social issues don't exist. The GOP attempt to criminalize abortion isn't a big domestic deal, nor is the attempt to get creationism taught in schools.

848 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:46:25am

re: #840 Sionainn

I just looked it up on the KitchenAid site since I was curious about where it was made. I got the Pro 600 and it says "assembled with pride in Greenville, Ohio."

But the components are made in China.

849 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:46:45am

re: #845 Lidane

THIS.

It was all budget and taxes. No mentions of education, poverty, women, immigration, etc. Those aren't domestic issues?

Heard some small talk about education but other than that little of the other issues mentioned. I really want to hear Romney asked about social issues given the trends of Republican majority legislatures since 2010 including the Congress.

850 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:46:45am

re: #846 danarchy

Yep, sure did, and when the moderator is failing to control the clock and the other guy is getting more air time you do what you have to to get a word in. Are you denying Obama had more air time?

I noticed Lehrer, more than once, getting on Obama's case for going over time. I can't remember hearing him telling Romney that no, he could not have the "last word."

851 dragonath  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:47:32am

Wow, I feel like I watched a different debate than everybody else last night

What I saw from Romney was someone who looked, and talked nervously, always needing to get in the last word in and (what seemed to me) saying things that were obviously auditioned before the debate.

Romney looked strong, for the first 10 minutes or so, but he ended up sounding like his own personal echo chamber. I don't think this is a sound byte election, as Clinton's convention speech showed.

852 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:47:41am

re: #850 Targetpractice

I noticed Lehrer, more than once, getting on Obama's case for going over time. I can't remember hearing him telling Romney that no, he could not have the "last word."

He did. He got on both of their cases about taking too much time.

853 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:48:10am

Ah well

Late morning pain meds are kicking in. The screen looks ,,,,,, hmmmmm,,,,, groovy!!!

BBL

854 BongCrodny  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:48:11am

re: #815 sattv4u2


'This is what happens when u pick John Kerry as your debate coach'

Ha!

"Try to be a little bit *more* stiff, Mr. President."

855 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:48:28am

re: #843 Targetpractice

When the debate is 90 minutes about domestic issues, yet they never move beyond budgets and taxes, then I'd say the moderator was negligent in doing his job.

They should give the candidates a list of questions before the debate, give them exactly 2 minutes to answer them, and then a couple minutes each for rebuttals. They both just seemed to ramble on at times about "well I met Debbie in bumblefuck Iowa who's yadda yadda." 2 minutes each, then automatically cut off their microphone.

856 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:48:40am

re: #852 NJDhockeyfan

He did. He got on both of their cases about taking too much time.

Lehrer sucked like an Electrolux.

857 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:49:05am

They kept saying how Obama looked down while Romney was speaking and that is bad, bad body language.

I thought to myself. "I look down when the other speaker is so far off the mark, I am embarrassed for them."

I do that a lot with conservative voters this time around. All I can do is look down and wait for them to stop talking. There is no common ground. All I hear is the economy, the economy, the economy. I want to say "haven't you noticed, we are in a brave new world? The people you want to trust with the economy are the same people who fucked it up.

858 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:49:34am

re: #854 BongCrodny

'This is what happens when u pick John Kerry as your debate coach'

Ha!

"Try to be a little bit *more* stiff, Mr. President."

"You rang"???

Image: KerryLurch.jpg

859 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:49:40am

re: #855 Ghost of Tom Joad

They should give the candidates a list of questions before the debate, give them exactly 2 minutes to answer them, and then a couple minutes each for rebuttals. They both just seemed to ramble on at times about "well I met Debbie in bumblefuck Iowa who's yadda yadda." 2 minutes each, then automatically cut off their microphone.

Yea, but someone would end up hiring that speed-talker guy from the Fed-Ex commercials.
///

860 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:49:47am

re: #851 dragonath

Wow, I feel like I watched a different debate than everybody else last night

What I saw from Romney was someone who looked, and talked nervously, always needing to get in the last word in and (what seemed to me) saying things that were obviously auditioned before the debate.

Romney looked strong, for the first 10 minutes or so, but he ended up sounding like his own personal echo chamber. I don't think this is a sound byte election, as Clinton's convention speech showed.

Like I said above, Obama came there to debate. Romney came to give stump speeches.

861 Big Steve  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:49:54am

re: #855 Ghost of Tom Joad

They should give the candidates a list of questions before the debate, give them exactly 2 minutes to answer them, and then a couple minutes each for rebuttals. They both just seemed to ramble on at times about "well I met Debbie in bumblefuck Iowa who's yadda yadda." 2 minutes each, then automatically cut off their microphone.

see I believe the opposite.....I would like it more freeform and allow them to go after each other.

862 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:49:56am

re: #851 dragonath

Wow, I feel like I watched a different debate than everybody else last night

What I saw from Romney was someone who looked, and talked nervously, always needing to get in the last word in and (what seemed to me) saying things that were obviously auditioned before the debate.

Romney looked strong, for the first 10 minutes or so, but he ended up sounding like his own personal echo chamber. I don't think this is a sound byte election, as Clinton's convention speech showed.

Yeah, from what I heard from the other room, he was talking too fast, like he had to "get his lines out" before he forgot them.

863 efuseakay  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:50:20am

re: #764 Cannadian Club Akbar

Do you have a meat grinding attachment?

Nope. If I need anything grinded, I use the giant floor-standing Hobart at work. Being a chef has its perks. I'd rather make a mess there than at home. ;)

864 sattv4u2  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:50:43am

re: #855 Ghost of Tom Joad

well I met Debbie in bumblefuck Iowa

I thought Debbie was from Dallas!?!?

865 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:51:24am

re: #857 ggt

They kept saying how Obama looked down while Romney was speaking and that is bad, bad body language.

I thought to myself. "I look down when the other speaker is so far off the mark, I am embarrassed for them."

I do that a lot with conservative voters this time around. All I can do is look down and wait for them to stop talking. There is no common ground. All I hear is the economy, the economy, the economy. I want to say "haven't you noticed, we are in a brave new world? The people you want to trust with the economy are the same people who fucked it up.

My picture was the streaming video on my computer screen and not a big-screen TV, but it was clear even then that he wasn't just looking down, he was taking notes. I've seen many a debate where the guy not talking is working at composing his response or jotting down things to bring back up later.

866 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:51:34am

re: #857 ggt

They kept saying how Obama looked down while Romney was speaking and that is bad, bad body language.

I thought to myself. "I look down when the other speaker is so far off the mark, I am embarrassed for them."

I do that a lot with conservative voters this time around. All I can do is look down and wait for them to stop talking. There is no common ground. All I hear is the economy, the economy, the economy. I want to say "haven't you noticed, we are in a brave new world? The people you want to trust with the economy are the same people who fucked it up.

Yep. Obama would look down and clench his jaw.
He looked annoyed.

867 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:51:39am

@FiredBigBird sent to #TwitterGulag. :(

868 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:52:02am

re: #833 danarchy

Seeing as how the president had almost a 4 and a half minute advantage in talk time he couldn't have been talked over that badly.

Did they stop the clock every time Rmoney talked over him?

869 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:52:29am

re: #861 Big Steve

see I believe the opposite.....I would like it more freeform and allow them to go after each other.

All that does is turn a debate into a sniping match. I want to hear how the candidates are different, not who has the better speech writer.

870 blueraven  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:53:15am

re: #842 kirkspencer

Worth (I think) pointing out: there are very few people who have not decided for whom they're going to vote. There aren't even that many who are being coy and claiming they haven't decided yet.

The debates give the candidates a chance to change minds. And that is not what Romney accomplished. I don't think any people who leaned to favoring Obama are now leaning toward Romney.

Probably true. The danger though, is the enthusiasm gap and campaign funds. This debate will help Romany there. Also set a narrative that the media will parrot in lockstep until the next big story.

In the end, I dont think this will change the electorate much, but Obama has to do better next time.

871 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:53:23am

re: #820 makeitstop

KT used that joke last night. Try a teleprompter joke instead.
/

Bill Maher already got that covered.

872 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:53:26am

re: #861 Big Steve

see I believe the opposite.....I would like it more freeform and allow them to go after each other.

Nothing would ever get done then. I mean, I could see it in terms of if they said, "Ok, Taxes. 10 minutes. You each go at 2 minute intervals, then 1 minute final remarks. GO!"

If there's no control (what we had last night) it's just a meandering mess.

873 makeitstop  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:53:49am

re: #846 danarchy

Yep, sure did, and when the moderator is failing to control the clock and the other guy is getting more air time you do what you have to to get a word in. Are you denying Obama had more air time?

I didn't really pay attention to who got more time.

The MSNBC guy pointed out that Obama got more time, sure. But he could have gotten a solid ten minutes more and still couldn't have refuted the truckload of lies that Mitt dumped on that stage.

874 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:53:52am

re: #864 sattv4u2

No, she just did Dallas.

875 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:55:46am

re: #867 Sheila Broflovski

@FiredBigBird sent to #TwitterGulag. :(

Probably a case of "Someone could mistake it for the real Big Bird!!1!" like when @MexicanMitt was suspended during the Republican convention.

876 Lidane  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:56:07am

It's okay, though. All those people with pre-existing conditions can just go to the ER for their health care once they lose their insurance.

877 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:56:18am

In other news things are heating up on the Turkey/Syria border. This is not good at all.

Turkey strikes back at Syria, approves further military action

878 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:56:58am

And seriously, Mr. Lehrer, couldn't you be more creative with questions than "How are you different?"

879 dragonath  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:57:03am

re: #871 NJDhockeyfan

Bill Maher already got that covered.

[Embedded content]

Imagine, it looks like someone is thinking before they speak.

OUTRAGE!

880 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:58:18am

Have to be productive and stuff.

Have a great day all!

881 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:58:22am

re: #876 Lidane

[Embedded content]

It's okay, though. All those people with pre-existing conditions can just go to the ER for their health care once they lose their insurance.

So basically he's saying if you have a pre-existing condition hope your state covers that and if not, sorry. Really, what a load of crap. I don't care if he won the debate last night or not. I still don't want Romney as president.

882 Lidane  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:59:34am
883 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:00:54am

re: #876 Lidane

[Embedded content]

It's okay, though. All those people with pre-existing conditions can just go to the ER for their health care once they lose their insurance.

The states will get right on addressing preexisting conditions, once they've finished with the million and one bills covering the manner in one may engage in sexy-time and the management of the lady-parts.

884 Kaessa  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:01:24am

re: #881 HappyWarrior

So basically he's saying if you have a pre-existing condition hope your state covers that and if not, sorry. Really, what a load of crap. I don't care if he won the debate last night or not. I still don't want Romney as president.

And if you have a pre-existing condition that includes chronic pain, the ER is NOT going to treat you. They label you a drug-seeker and kick you out.

885 dragonath  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:06:43am

I didn't know what to think when Romney was trolling about doctors who would not take patients, and businesses who won't open in America because taxes are too high.

I mean, goddamn, seriously? That's like something outta the French Revolution.

I was kind of hoping Obama was going to nail him on that but I think he expects people can add 1 and 1 together.

886 Mattand  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:07:19am

re: #857 ggt

The people you want to trust with the economy are the same people who fucked it up.

A thousand times this. I've been saying this for the last two years.

Regardless of how you feel about Obama and the Dems, the people who ruined the economy by '08 (Republicans, for those of you in denial) want back in. And they've pretty much said that they're going to do the same thing that caused the crisis in the first place.

This is why I get so irritated with everyone talking about undecided voters. Seriously; what the fuck is wrong with you people? Were you not watching what happened when Bush was in office?

If you go to a doctor to have a corn removed, and they amputate your foot, YOU DON'T GO BACK TO THE SAME DOCTOR and say "Hope he gets it right this time!" Yet there are people in this country who apparently think that an extreme version of Bush's economic policies will somehow magically fix everything.

People wonder why I'm a misanthrope at times. Here's a perfect example why.

887 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:07:30am
888 Mattand  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:08:48am

re: #885 dragonath

I was kind of hoping Obama was going to nail him on that but I think he expects people can add 1 and 1 together.

If Obama thinks that, he can start calling the movers now. That is perhaps the worst strategy to take with the average American voter.

889 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:09:20am

re: #886 Mattand

A thousand times this. I've been saying this for the last two years.

Regardless of how you feel about Obama and the Dems, the people who ruined the economy by '08 (Republicans, for those of you in denial) want back in. And they've pretty much said that they're going to do the same thing that caused the crisis in the first place.

This is why I get so irritated with everyone talking about undecided voters. Seriously; what the fuck is wrong with you people? Were you not watching what happened when Bush was in office?

If you go to a doctor to have a corn removed, and they amputate your foot, YOU DON'T GO BACK TO THE SAME DOCTOR and say "Hope he gets it right this time!" Yet there are people in this country who apparently think that an extreme version of Bush's economic policies will somehow magically fix everything.

People wonder why I'm a misanthrope at times. He's a perfect example why.

It's short term political memory. It's how we get things like the Tea Party and why I laugh my ass off when Paul Ryan especially claims to be concerned about the deficit. He voted for all the controversial Bush items that added to the deficit and I'm not only including the wars here but domestic items as well. But now Obama's president, he and others suddenly find religion. Remember it was a Republican Vice President who shrugged off deficits as "not mattering." Of course Ryan now claims he did so reluctantly but that's convenient now huh.

890 Lidane  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:12:08am
891 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:13:15am

re: #885 dragonath

I didn't know what to think when Romney was trolling about doctors who would not take patients, and businesses who won't open in America because taxes are too high.

I mean, goddamn, seriously? That's like something outta the French Revolution.

I was kind of hoping Obama was going to nail him on that but I think he expects people can add 1 and 1 together.

That's the problem with Obama's/Democrat's debating style.
They assume people are following the issues and can sort out the truth.
Most people, outside of political junkies, only have time to catch a little news, a little gossip, and remember who had the last best soundbite.

892 garhighway  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:13:44am

re: #75 Ghost of Tom Joad

Romney did a complete 180 during the debate. Tax cuts, health care, investment in the future, Medicare, that utterly baffling garbage about regulations....When he goes on his little 50k per-plate fundraisers, it'll be another 180. In terms of optics and appearance, it worked very, very well for him tonight.

It was the type of debate that would probably have won over a lot of voters before the days of internet/youtube/facebook/twitter etc. There's the old line If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit. Well, he dazzled with his bullshit. Will it have a huge effect on those likely to vote? Doubtful.

It will be interesting to see in the next few days how the Obama camp plays this. If it become a slew of attack ads against Mitt, then we can assume B.O. was just feeding Romney rope to hang himself. If it doesn't, then it will look like he was unprepared, because Mitt left huge openings for Barack to throttle him in the solar-plexus.

Mitt and his magic Etch-a-Sketch.

893 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:13:58am

DERP! FAIL.

894 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:14:31am

re: #888 Mattand

If Obama thinks that, he can start calling the movers now. That is perhaps the worst strategy to take with the average American voter.

Indeed, there was a lot of criticism last night directed towards "liberal despair," griping about how quick liberals are to engaging in hysterics when things go awry. But it's hard not to get depressed over a bad performance when you have the media trumpeting the next day about how well Romney did, how the immediate reaction polls show that people liked him, and all the hand-wringing over how poorly Obama did.

When you have a fairly low opinion of the American electorate, it's hard not to see them coming away from Romney's performance last night with at least a few doubts about Obama's ability to handle the presidency for another 4 years. Romney didn't need to convert anybody, he just needed to give them the impression that Obama's a well-meaning guy who's "in over his head." Mission accomplished.

895 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:16:30am

Yossi Gestetner, BTW, is the Neturei Karta supporter who was tapped by the GOP to be their "Jewish Outreach" coordinator. He resigned when his NK affiliations were outed.

I like to keep him around for Magical Balance Fairy purposes when wingnuts start harping about some poor deluded moonbats who got included in "Rabbis for Obama"

896 Mattand  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:17:22am

re: #889 HappyWarrior

It's short term political memory. It's how we get things like the Tea Party and why I laugh my ass off when Paul Ryan especially claims to be concerned about the deficit. He voted for all the controversial Bush items that added to the deficit and I'm not only including the wars here but domestic items as well. But now Obama's president, he and others suddenly find religion. Remember it was a Republican Vice President who shrugged off deficits as "not mattering."

I know. I just can't take anymore of dealing with:

A) independents who think Obama should have solved an 8-year-in-the-making financial crisis in less that 4 years (2, when factor in the unrepentant GOP obstructionism.)

B) Republicans who are in denial about how their party's financial policies contributed to the mess we're in.

897 William of Orange  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:18:24am

Twenty years ago...

A day of remembrance in the Netherlands. On October 4th 1992 El Al Flight 1862 fell from the sky and plunged into a highrise building. The Boeing 747 destroyed a block of flats and 43 people lost their lives.


Wiki.

898 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:19:17am

re: #896 Mattand

I know. I just can't take anymore of dealing with:

A) independents who think Obama should have solved an 8-year-in-the-making financial crisis in less that 4 years (2, when factor in the unrepentant GOP obstructionism.)

B) Republicans who are in denial about how their party's financial policies contributed to the mess we're in.

It is frustrating and it's why I have many a day where I wish I didn't give a damn about this stuff.

899 jaunte  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:19:53am

Romney’s $5 Trillion Tax Dodge

"Supply-side fairy dust"

900 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:20:13am

Unreal...

Gaza flotilla sponsor blames Jews for Holocaust on Twitter

The Free Gaza Movement, a U.S.-based activist group known for provisioning ships to run the Israeli-Egyptian blockade of Gaza, was hit with charges of anti-Semitism on Wednesday after posting a tweet claiming that Jews were responsible for the Holocaust.

“Zionists operated the concentration camps and helped murder millions of innocent Jews,” read a Tweet posted Sunday to @freegazaorg, the official Twitter feed of the group, which includes Canadian author Naomi Klein and Bishop Desmond Tutu on its board of advisors.

An embedded link led to a video of a speech by known conspiracy theorist Eustace Mullins claiming that the word Nazi is an amalgam of the words “National socialism” and “Zionist.”

“[Hitler] allied with the Zionist Party, and the mission of the Nazis was to force the anti-Zionist Jews to accept Zionism — and this is what the concentration camps were about,” said Mr. Mullins, who died of a stroke in 2010.

901 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:22:32am

re: #900 NJDhockeyfan

Unreal...

Gaza flotilla sponsor blames Jews for Holocaust on Twitter

That's the same Eustance Mullins that supposed Israel supporter Glenn Beck promoted. Anyhow, these people are bigoted morons on so many levels.

902 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:23:22am

re: #899 jaunte

Romney’s $5 Trillion Tax Dodge

"Supply-side fairy dust"

"It's not a tax cut, it's tax relief." Or It's not pizza, it's dough, cheese, and tomato sauce.

903 jaunte  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:23:24am

At First Debate, Mitt Romney Admits That He Would ‘Absolutely Not’ Support His Own Tax Plan

"...After President Obama cited a report from the Tax Policy Center showing that Romney’s plan couldn’t uphold his three principles, Romney said he would not support such a plan, then reiterated the same three principles."

904 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:23:57am

re: #903 jaunte

At First Debate, Mitt Romney Admits That He Would ‘Absolutely Not’ Support His Own Tax Plan

So Mitt's returning to running against himself. Can't wait for the ads which are surely coming.

905 Mattand  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:25:36am

re: #894 Targetpractice

Indeed, there was a lot of criticism last night directed towards "liberal despair," griping about how quick liberals are to engaging in hysterics when things go awry. But it's hard not to get depressed over a bad performance when you have the media trumpeting the next day about how well Romney did, how the immediate reaction polls show that people liked him, and all the hand-wringing over how poorly Obama did.

When you have a fairly low opinion of the American electorate, it's hard not to see them coming away from Romney's performance last night with at least a few doubts about Obama's ability to handle the presidency for another 4 years. Romney didn't need to convert anybody, he just needed to give them the impression that Obama's a well-meaning guy who's "in over his head." Mission accomplished.

I was saying that all last week. It's the Bush/Palin debate expectation: don't look obviously dumb and people will come away thinking you're a genius, even if what you're saying is easily debunked.

As for having a low opinion of the American electorate: what can I say? Guilty as charged. Romney has yet to have an honest conversation about how he'll run the country. Yet I know a lot of people who want to vote for him because he's a "business man". They are completely fine with electing him and hoping it works out.

Fuck that. I have to live here, too.

906 ShaunP  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:26:26am

re: #904 HappyWarrior

So Mitt's returning to running against himself. Can't wait for the ads which are surely coming.

I thought for sure that the Obama campaign would be all over the flip flop meme by now.

Then again, I also thought that he should have been tying Mittens to Rick Scott here in Florida too (in particular how mopey dems handed him the governorship by not voting) but that hasn't come to fruition either.

*shrugs*

907 jaunte  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:26:32am

re: #904 HappyWarrior

It looks like at a minimum, 33% of the country believe in magic.

908 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:26:55am

re: #901 HappyWarrior

That's the same Eustance Mullins that supposed Israel supporter Glenn Beck promoted. Anyhow, these people are bigoted morons on so many levels.

I was surprised to see Desmond Tutu as a member of this group. I thought he would be smarter than that. Being a part of a hate group like this will tend to ruin anyone's reputation.

909 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:29:38am

re: #907 jaunte

It looks like at a minimum, 33% of the country believe in magic.

Yeah we have a large segment who believe that tax cuts, spending cuts but increasing the military budget will result in eradicating the deficit. I admit. Economics isn't my forte but even I can see why that's just asking for more debt to be piled on.

910 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:31:21am

re: #908 NJDhockeyfan

I was surprised to see Desmond Tutu as a member of this group. I thought he would be smarter than that. Being a part of a hate group like this will tend to ruin anyone's reputation.

Yeah, I know what you mean. People are people though filled with complexities.

911 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:31:39am

Press Critics Pile On Jim Lehrer’s Debate Performance

Reuters media columnist Jack Shafer didn’t mince words when summing up the quality of Lehrer’s questions and his overall performance.

“Jim Lehrer was AWOL for most of the debate, which meant that Mitt Romney took over,” Shafer told TPM in an email. “Most of his questions were soft and the ones that had any wood on them were easily evaded. I would chalk this up to a case of nerves on Lehrer’s part, but hasn’t he moderated 5,000 presidential debates? I’d make a replacement ref joke except that would be unfair to the refs.”

912 jaunte  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:34:14am

Here come the corrections from the Romney campaign. Practiced technique; he says whatever bs he wants, and then they walk it back after the fact-checkers react.


913 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:34:52am
914 kirkspencer  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:35:25am

re: #902 HappyWarrior

"It's not a tax cut, it's tax relief." Or It's not pizza, it's dough, cheese, and tomato sauce.

... with pineapple.

915 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:35:42am

re: #912 jaunte

Here come the corrections from the Romney campaign. Practiced technique; he says whatever bs he wants, and then they walk it back after the fact-checkers react.

As Paul Simon said: Lie la lie.

916 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:37:26am
917 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:37:41am
918 Mattand  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:39:47am

Yeah, I'm in a mood today: Just had someone on FB tell me that Fox News is the closest thing to unbiased media, they've done their homework, and they chose Mitt.

Ugh.

919 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:40:28am

I think we can safely say that last night's performance was the Romney campaign going forward. By that I mean Willard can say whatever the fuck he wants and not only will the media applaud, but the TPers will be too busy applauding to realize he's walking all over them.

920 jaunte  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:42:07am
921 makeitstop  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:42:44am

re: #917 Mocking Jay

[Embedded content]

POTUS, brushing it off. Good.

Get 'em next time, Mr. President.

922 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:43:13am

re: #920 jaunte

[Embedded content]

It's hard for some of us to bring out A-Game to a debate at 9pm in the night when we've been working since 6am.

923 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:43:28am

re: #920 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Is that supposed to be funny? Their beloved Reagan didn't win the first debate with Mondale either. Man how I yearn for President Mondale who won on the strength of his first debate. Seriously, what a bunch of crap.

924 jaunte  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:43:42am

re: #922 Targetpractice

Michelle Malkin, still small.

925 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:43:42am

re: #34 freetoken

Raising an observation I mentioned a few days ago, around here (San Diego area) what has been striking is the absence of "heat" (metaphorically, not physically as it's been santa ana weather of late) over the election in just one month.

Where are the signs? Where are the people out in the public places with placards or stickers or anything?

It's all very quiet, as if nobody cares.

I think Romney's supposed debate win should be a wake-up call for Obama supporters. There have been some signs of complacency. Here in Lubbock, a good portion of the local Democrats are attending an "anti-drone" protest this week, that is, essentially protesting against Obama. They seem more interested in protest than in actual change. If so, a Romney administration will be hog heaven for them.

926 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:44:23am

re: #923 HappyWarrior

Is that supposed to be funny? Their beloved Reagan didn't win the first debate with Mondale either. Man how I yearn for President Mondale who won on the strength of his first debate. Seriously, what a bunch of crap.

Remember President Kerry totally blowing Bush outta the water in '04? Good times.

//

927 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:44:32am

re: #922 Targetpractice

It's hard for some of us to bring out A-Game to a debate at 9pm in the night when we've been working since 6am.

I think that's probably the reason why the first debate favors the challenger honestly.

928 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:45:53am

Also, how does one bring an A-Game to a debate when the other side all but says out loud that everything it's been saying for months is about to go under the bus on live TV?

Hey teabaggers, I got some Lava soap if you wanna get those tread marks off your faces.

929 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:48:20am

re: #926 Targetpractice

Remember President Kerry totally blowing Bush outta the water in '04? Good times.

//

How did Vice President Edwards do at the debate last night? // Seriously, Romney won the debate last night, I'll give him that but if Malkin thinks this suddenly means that Mitt's going to get a huge portion of the electorate that wasn't with him on his side then she's delusional.

930 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:49:44am

re: #913 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

931 Big Steve  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:50:08am

Keeping a list of the excuses:

1. John Kerry was debate trainer
2. Altitude in Denver
3. Moderator was unfair
4. Been up being Presidential since 6am
5. Post debate polling was unfair
6. All a ruse to rope a dope Romney in the second debate
7. Democrats are way too sophisticated to call out lies
8. Bad lighting
9. Took notes instead of looked at competitor.

932 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:50:13am

re: #924 jaunte

Michelle Malkin, still small.

In mind and heart, but still a humongous doosh.

933 jaunte  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:50:30am

An Unhelpful Debate

"...Virtually every time Mr. Romney spoke, he misrepresented the platform on which he and Paul Ryan are actually running. The most prominent example, taking up the first half-hour of the debate, was on taxes. Mr. Romney claimed, against considerable evidence, that he had no intention of cutting taxes on the rich or enacting a tax cut that would increase the deficit.
.......
On health care, Mr. Romney pretended that he had an actual plan to replace the Affordable Care Act, and that it covered pre-existing conditions. He has no such plan, and his false claim finally roused the president to his only strong moment of the evening. The country doesn’t know the details, he said, of how Mr. Romney would replace Wall Street reform, or health care reform, or tax increases on the rich because Republicans don’t want people to understand the hard trade-offs involved in these decisions.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

He has no plan.

934 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:51:18am

re: #931 Big Steve

This is my favorite:

2. Altitude in Denver

Did it only affect Obama?

935 Big Steve  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:53:46am

re: #934 NJDhockeyfan

This is my favorite:

2. Altitude in Denver

Did it only affect Obama?

"apparently so" sighed Al Gore

936 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:54:33am

re: #934 NJDhockeyfan

This is my favorite:

2. Altitude in Denver

Did it only affect Obama?

I think that's a stupid excuse but high altitudes can effect different people differently.

937 blueraven  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:54:48am

re: #934 NJDhockeyfan

This is my favorite:

2. Altitude in Denver

Did it only affect Obama?

No I think it affected Romney too. He suffered from (altitude induced?) amnesia. Couldn't remember any of his policies.
Damn strange.

938 A Mom Anon  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:56:37am

re: #929 HappyWarrior

STILL delusional. This is teh Malkin you're talking about here.

939 makeitstop  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:57:17am

re: #931 Big Steve

Keeping a list of the excuses:

You forgot Romney's wholesale lies. Only that's not an excuse, it's the truth.

940 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:57:28am

And I don't think it's an excuse to suggest that presidential business can effect an incumbent. Nate Silver has pointed out that in recent memory the challenger has won the first debate. And the only person I see using John Kerry as a scapegoat is Michael Moore whose opinion on politics I could care less about. Shrug. It's one debate and Romney won it. Does that suddenly mean I'm supposed to forget that his policies are anathema to what I believe in?

941 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:57:49am

"Last night, I met a very spirited fellow up there who claimed to be Mitt Romney."
Pres. Obama 10/4/12

re: #936 HappyWarrior

I think that's a stupid excuse but high altitudes can effect different people differently.

Was that really supposed to be an excuse?
I thought it was a joke.

942 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:57:57am

re: #931 Big Steve

Keeping a list of the excuses:

1. John Kerry was debate trainer
2. Altitude in Denver
3. Moderator was unfair
4. Been up being Presidential since 6am
5. Post debate polling was unfair
6. All a ruse to rope a dope Romney in the second debate
7. Democrats are way too sophisticated to call out lies
8. Bad lighting
9. Took notes instead of looked at competitor.

Those are good ones. What are the excuses for Rmoney's lies? He had some outside forces that made him do it or he IS just a lying sac of shit?

943 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:58:06am

re: #939 makeitstop

You forgot Romney's wholesale lies. Only that's not an excuse, it's the truth.

I liked the part where Romney opposed his own tax plan. That was priceless. Romney really did a number on Romney there.

944 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:58:54am

re: #941 Reverend Mother Ramallo

"Last night, I met a very spirited fellow up there who claimed to be Mitt Romney."
Pres. Obama 10/4/12

Was that really supposed to be an excuse?
I thought it was a joke.

I have no idea. I never saw anyone actually claim it.

945 jaunte  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:58:57am

re: #942 Eventual Carrion

The Romney campaign is not a reality-based performance. It's art.

946 makeitstop  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:59:08am

re: #943 HappyWarrior

I liked the part where Romney opposed his own tax plan. That was priceless. Romney really did a number on Romney there.

Yeah, he apparently won the debate twice - once against Obama, and once against the Romney that's actually running for president.

947 Big Steve  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 9:59:21am

re: #939 makeitstop

You forgot Romney's wholesale lies. Only that's not an excuse, it's the truth.

see #7

948 makeitstop  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 10:00:07am

re: #947 Big Steve

see #7

So you admit that Romney lied his way through the debate? That's a start.

949 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 10:00:24am

re: #945 jaunte

The Romney campaign is not a reality-based performance. It's art.

Ahhh, more entertainment. Not meant to be a factual statement, just used for effect.

950 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 10:02:45am

re: #945 jaunte

The Romney campaign is not a reality-based performance. It's art.

I hear this particular style originated in France.

951 Sionainn  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 10:07:14am

re: #848 Sheila Broflovski

But the components are made in China.

Yeah, I was wondering about that. I still do like it. I've used it a ton in the past year, even doing bread, and it worked great.

952 Lidane  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 10:11:44am
953 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 10:15:46am

re: #952 Lidane

Pam Geller says liberals have embraced a "new fascism" reminiscent of Nazi Germany bit.ly/Qw4qcu

— Right Wing Watch (@RightWingWatch) October 4, 2012

Maybe Pam should try a "new life" reminiscent of a human being.

954 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 4, 2012 10:18:13am

re: #952 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Psst Pam fascism was and is still a right wing ideology, just ask your friends in the EDL, they're fascists. Seriously though pick a fucking narrative about us on the left, you dumbasses. Either we're multiculturalist PC freaks or we're fascist Nazis. The two are exclusive. It's like saying the czars of Russia were Bolsheviks. Oh wait.........


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