Buzzfeed: Top Trump Cabinet Members Have "Suicide Pact" to Prevent Trump From Firing Them

Buzzfeed: Top Trump Cabinet Members Have “Suicide Pact” to Prevent Trump From Firing Them

PoliticsOctober 2017 • Views: 35,537

Today we learn that the malevolent toad squatting in the White House is so reckless, vindictive and unpredictable several of his top Cabinet members have reportedly forged a “suicide pact” in an effort to stop Trump from firing them on a whim.

One US official expressed confidence in Tillerson’s status due to a so-called “suicide pact” forged between Defense Secretary James Mattis, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and Tillerson whereby all three cabinet secretaries vow to leave in the event that the president makes moves against one of them.

This is so nuts.

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335 comments

Backwoods_Sleuth Oct 4, 2017 • 3:27:18pm

This is so nuts.

And we are already getting used to it and expecting each day to be worse than the day before.

Skip Intro Oct 4, 2017 • 3:30:01pm

I find it hard to believe Mnuchin would leave. That would be like a bank robber leaving after just getting the safe open.

Nyet Oct 4, 2017 • 3:30:23pm

Barrett Brown is out of prison.

reddit.com

petesh Oct 4, 2017 • 3:31:05pm

Kragar posted this:
littlegreenfootballs.com

(THREAD) The single most important fact in the Trump-Russia investigation is a never-discussed one. This thread discusses it. Please share. pic.twitter.com/HDCz8a2ph9

— Seth Abramson (@SethAbramson) October 4, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote Image

Here’s my reply, copied from the bottom of the last thread & edited (hope this works):

Read the linked and quoted thread by Seth Abramson. Please.

It makes it quite clear (OK, very plausible at least) that Mueller and his team are going for the big one — aiding and abetting the commission of a criminal act. Trump, Jr, Kushner and Manafort (at least) all in serious jeopardy, and Trump’s documented history of lies should be relevant in court.

Take your time, Mueller; get it right. You are going down on history. And Trump is going down. (You heard it here, not first though!)

Nyet Oct 4, 2017 • 3:34:20pm

re: #4 petesh

Have a trouble to take anything by Abramson seriously. If you could summarize the argument…

EPR-radar Oct 4, 2017 • 3:34:50pm

This might be the beginning of the end, or at least the end of the beginning.

t**** is going to be pissed about this news coming to light. t****’s mindless instinct is to sack all three at once before any of them can resign. Nothing I can imagine would cause greater rage in the t****-thing than this perceived disloyalty to t****.

The chance of this increases dramatically if t**** and Bannon ever have a phone call, because Bannon wants havoc and knows how to stroke t****’s ego.

Assuming this happens, it will be a shit show of unimaginable proportion as the GOP starts fracturing and foreign adversaries (Russia, China, North Korea, various terrorist groups) start making their moves.

Dave In Austin Oct 4, 2017 • 3:37:34pm

OMG Who did this?? pic.twitter.com/d7slLX5uXF

— Tommie Collins (@tommiecollins) October 4, 2017

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Patricia Kayden Oct 4, 2017 • 3:41:14pm

re: #4 petesh

Thank goodness for Mueller. To be honest, he’s the reason I have hope for this country. I’m confident that he’ll take his time and make sure that his investigation is so airtight that Republicans can’t ignore it or tear it apart.

Dave In Austin Oct 4, 2017 • 3:42:47pm

I would like to see Mayor Cruz on the VP ticket in 20.

Right-wingers more upset over a T-shirt that reads “nasty,” which was what Trump called Mayor Cruz, than all the nasty stuff Trump has said. pic.twitter.com/LxdA7IACfU

— Adam Best (@adamcbest) October 4, 2017

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Patricia Kayden Oct 4, 2017 • 3:43:19pm

re: #1 Backwoods_Sleuth

And we are already getting used to it and expecting each day to be worse than the day before.

With Republicans in control of Congress, all we can do is send good thoughts in Mueller’s direction. They’re not going to do anything to get Trump out of office.

By the way, what does it say about Tillerson that he works for someone he calls a moron? Not much.

Patricia Kayden Oct 4, 2017 • 3:43:54pm

re: #9 Dave In Austin

What is it with Trump calling women “nasty”?

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 3:45:06pm

re: #9 Dave In Austin

I would like to see Mayor Cruz on the VP ticket in 20.

[Embedded content]

Fuck their feelings.

Blind Frog Belly White Oct 4, 2017 • 3:46:36pm

re: #11 Patricia Kayden

What is it with Trump calling women “nasty”?

Somebody probably told him the using the C-word is unrecoverable.

KGxvi Oct 4, 2017 • 3:47:57pm

re: #9 Dave In Austin

I would like to see Mayor Cruz on the VP ticket in 20.

[Embedded content]

I wonder if the residency requirement (“fourteen years a Resident within the United States”) would bar someone from a territory seeking the presidency/vice-presidency? I don’t think we’ve ever had a president or a vice-president who was a resident of a territory when elected, but I could be wrong.

dangerman Oct 4, 2017 • 3:50:29pm

re: #10 Patricia Kayden

By the way, what does it say about Tillerson that he works for someone he calls a moron? Not much.

that he’s a craven, self centered opportunist?
that he is in no way a public servant?

that he has no self perspective to protect from his own arrogance, megalomania, misguided beliefs and distorted judgments?

that his personal interests supplant and surpass the noble mission of governing?

whitebeach Oct 4, 2017 • 3:55:37pm

The vaunted security of Las Vegas is amazing.

Dude packs twenty weapons and hundreds of rounds of ammo into his hotel room? No problem.

If he’s counting cards at blackjack, max half an hour till he’s downstairs talking with the heavies.

Eclectic Cyborg Oct 4, 2017 • 3:56:55pm

Okay GOP, your move.

How the hell much longer are you going to allow this shit to go on?

EPR-radar Oct 4, 2017 • 3:58:32pm

re: #16 whitebeach

The vaunted security of Las Vegas is amazing.

Dude packs twenty weapons and hundreds of rounds of ammo into his hotel room? No problem.

If he’s counting cards at blackjack, max half an hour till he’s downstairs talking with the heavies.

Card counters cost casinos money. Mass murderers just kill people. Easy peasy.

Eclectic Cyborg Oct 4, 2017 • 3:59:13pm

re: #18 EPR-radar

Card counters cost casinos money. Mass murderers just kill people. Easy peasy.

#sadbuttrue

petesh Oct 4, 2017 • 4:01:24pm

re: #5 Nyet

His main point is that the key issue is when did the relevant actors become aware of Russian meddling, which is ipso facto illegal. Once they knew, their public denials indicate the aiding and abetting of the commission of a crime. That’s more or less it.

We don’t need to prove that Kushner (or whoever) passed the targeting details on to Russia; we only need to prove he (they) knew the Russians were (inter alia) spamming registered voters. I firmly believe there was active data transmission from the Trump campaign to the bot-masters, but under “aiding and abetting” we may not need definitive proof.

It would be lovely to get Trump on money laundering, etc, but at this point what I most want is to get him out of office.

Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines Oct 4, 2017 • 4:02:45pm

Firing a 100 round magazine non-stop through an AR-15 will cause the gas tube to glow cherry red and start to melt. Continuous 30 round bursts will make the gun so hot it will malfunction in short order. It takes much longer for the gun to cool than it does to fire the magazine. That is the likely reason the Vegas shooter had a dozen rifles. He was alternating them while they cooled.

makeitstop Oct 4, 2017 • 4:03:17pm

re: #20 petesh

I firmly believe there was active data transmission from the Trump campaign to the bot-masters

Alfa Bank server.

b.d. (bill d.) Oct 4, 2017 • 4:03:54pm

re: #2 Skip Intro

I find it hard to believe Mnuchin would leave. That would be like a bank robber leaving after just getting the safe open.

I don’t trust Mnuchin as far as I could throw him, I wonder who squealed about this “secret alliance” anyways?

makeitstop Oct 4, 2017 • 4:05:48pm

Thread.

So lemme get this straight: The Russians, Cambridge Analytica, and Trump campaign microtarget voters in Wisconsin for propaganda.

— Eric Garland (@ericgarland) October 4, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

KGxvi Oct 4, 2017 • 4:06:33pm

re: #21 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Firing a 100 round magazine non-stop through an AR-15 will cause the gas tube to glow cherry red and start to melt. Continuous 30 round bursts will make the gun so hot it will malfunction in short order. It takes much longer for the gun to cool than it does to fire the magazine. That is the likely reason the Vegas shooter had a dozen rifles. He was alternating them while they cooled.

I’m still looking for an explanation as to why someone would need a gun that could fire that many rounds in that short a time. That’s really the question I want asked if there are potential hearings:

What possible need does an average person have for a gun, modified or not, that is capable of firing 100 rounds per minute? 75 rounds per minute? 50 rounds per minute? 30 rounds per minute?

Patricia Kayden Oct 4, 2017 • 4:06:58pm

re: #17 Eclectic Cyborg

Okay GOP, your move.

How the hell much longer are you going to allow this shit to go on?

They want tax cuts for the rich so Trump is good until they get that through Congress.

ObserverArt Oct 4, 2017 • 4:07:17pm

re: #9 Dave In Austin

I would like to see Mayor Cruz on the VP ticket in 20.

Adam Best ✔@adamcbest
Right-wingers more upset over a T-shirt that reads “nasty,” which was what Trump called Mayor Cruz, than all the nasty stuff Trump has said.
4:20 PM - Oct 4, 2017
74 74 Replies 262 262 Retweets 570 570 likes

Let me guess. They probably are saying that wearing the t-shirt is unbecoming of someone in a public office, like a mayor.

Which of course means that all the nasty stuff Trump calls others is just fine for the highest public office in the land.

Mark it down as another “I could go out on 5th Avenue” type of thing. He’s got a book full of them.

Patricia Kayden Oct 4, 2017 • 4:12:29pm

re: #25 KGxvi

Great questions. To the best of my knowledge, the gun you describe makes no sense for hunting purposes and are as dangerous to police officers as they are to civilians.

Nyet Oct 4, 2017 • 4:14:52pm

re: #20 petesh

Thanks.

austin_blue Oct 4, 2017 • 4:15:34pm

re: #21 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Firing a 100 round magazine non-stop through an AR-15 will cause the gas tube to glow cherry red and start to melt. Continuous 30 round bursts will make the gun so hot it will malfunction in short order. It takes much longer for the gun to cool than it does to fire the magazine. That is the likely reason the Vegas shooter had a dozen rifles. He was alternating them while they cooled.

That’s exactly correct. The Germans had a quick-change barrel system in the M-42 (Hitler’s Buzz Saw), using 6 separate barrels so that they could replace a barrel in +/- 12 seconds (using asbestos gloves). It allowed them to maintain around 450 effective rounds per minute. Which was damn terrifying if you are running into it.

The Vegas shooter’s problem is that he may not have brought *enough* barrels. I saw one picture where there are several stacked 100-round mags that hadn’t been used. Could be that his guns were just shot out after 9 minutes, with lots of ammo remaining, but just too hot to fire again. You put 100 rounds through a barrel and it’s going to be hot as a rocket.

Blind Frog Belly White Oct 4, 2017 • 4:15:57pm

re: #25 KGxvi

I’m still looking for an explanation as to why someone would need a gun that could fire that many rounds in that short a time. That’s really the question I want asked if there are potential hearings:

What possible need does an average person have for a gun, modified or not, that is capable of firing 100 rounds per minute? 75 rounds per minute? 50 rounds per minute? 30 rounds per minute?

This is where you will always hit an impasse - the word ‘need’. You’ll be asked, “What part of ‘shall not be infringed’ don’t you understand?” and “I don’t have to NEED IT, it’s MY RIGHT!!!!”

Look, the gunfuckers JUST BARELY accept the limitations on fully automatic weapons. But here is this thing you can legally buy for $200 that makes your legal rifle work like an illegal machine gun, and there will be HOWLS from the NRA if Congress tries to outlaw what is transparently designed to circumvent the law.

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 4:18:16pm

re: #25 KGxvi

I’m still looking for an explanation as to why someone would need a gun that could fire that many rounds in that short a time. That’s really the question I want asked if there are potential hearings:

What possible need does an average person have for a gun, modified or not, that is capable of firing 100 rounds per minute? 75 rounds per minute? 50 rounds per minute? 30 rounds per minute?

Damn good question that I can never get a straight answer on.

goddamnedfrank Oct 4, 2017 • 4:18:22pm

re: #21 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Firing a 100 round magazine non-stop through an AR-15 will cause the gas tube to glow cherry red and start to melt. Continuous 30 round bursts will make the gun so hot it will malfunction in short order. It takes much longer for the gun to cool than it does to fire the magazine. That is the likely reason the Vegas shooter had a dozen rifles. He was alternating them while they cooled.

This is a bigger problem for direct impingement systems. Reportedly he also had rifles made by Sig Sauer and their MCX runs on a gas piston which keeps the gasses away from the bolt carrier. The barrel will still heat up equally fast though since a .223 bore doesn’t offer much circumference to spread out the heat from gasses and friction.

KGxvi Oct 4, 2017 • 4:18:42pm

re: #31 Blind Frog Belly White

This is where you will always hit an impasse - the word ‘need’. You’ll be asked, “What part of ‘shall not be infringed’ don’t you understand?” and “I don’t have to NEED IT, it’s MY RIGHT!!!!”

Look, the gunfuckers JUST BARELY accept the limitations on fully automatic weapons. But here is this thing you can legally buy for $200 that makes your legal rifle work like an illegal machine gun, and there will be HOWLS from the NRA if Congress tries to outlaw what is transparently designed to circumvent the law.

The response to “it’s my right” is okay, then what’s the purpose? What purpose or utility do those weapons hold? Because, as I mentioned either today or yesterday, these types of weapons are basically military grade, in which case their intended purpose and utility is to kill as many people as possible in as short a time as possible.

EPR-radar Oct 4, 2017 • 4:19:02pm

re: #25 KGxvi

I’m still looking for an explanation as to why someone would need a gun that could fire that many rounds in that short a time. That’s really the question I want asked if there are potential hearings:

What possible need does an average person have for a gun, modified or not, that is capable of firing 100 rounds per minute? 75 rounds per minute? 50 rounds per minute? 30 rounds per minute?

We all know the real answer to this question. Deadly weapons are the only thing that get elderly gun nuts hard

ObserverArt Oct 4, 2017 • 4:19:22pm

re: #25 KGxvi

I’m still looking for an explanation as to why someone would need a gun that could fire that many rounds in that short a time. That’s really the question I want asked if there are potential hearings:

What possible need does an average person have for a gun, modified or not, that is capable of firing 100 rounds per minute? 75 rounds per minute? 50 rounds per minute? 30 rounds per minute?

Don’t over think this.

They want the guns to be automatic so they can play big man/woman warrior. And to be able to shoot off a ton of bullets because they can. It’s a power thing. It really is that simple.

And oh yeah, they are great for mass killing which IS what he wanted them for.

Blind Frog Belly White Oct 4, 2017 • 4:21:39pm

re: #34 KGxvi

The response to “it’s my right” is okay, then what’s the purpose? What purpose or utility do those weapons hold? Because, as I mentioned either today or yesterday, these types of weapons are basically military grade, in which case their intended purpose and utility is to kill as many people as possible in as short a time as possible.

You’re attempting to apply reason to the unreasonable.

fern01 Oct 4, 2017 • 4:23:24pm

re: #11 Patricia Kayden

What is it with Trump calling women “nasty”?

He has called them so much worse - this is his polite option

Decatur Deb Oct 4, 2017 • 4:25:01pm

re: #3 Nyet

Barrett Brown is out of prison.

reddit.com

After reading a lot of the AMA—he’s still a loon-magnet. Good luck to his better intents.

Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines Oct 4, 2017 • 4:25:23pm

re: #35 EPR-radar

We all know the real answer to this question. Deadly weapons are the only thing that get elderly gun nuts hard

Once the Trump gang is expelled, we need a Presidential commission to investigate the disastrous decline in penis size and functionality among certain elements of the population. I am not an epidemiologist but anecdotal evidence suggests that obesity and alcohol and methamphetamine abuse may be risk factors.

TedStriker Oct 4, 2017 • 4:25:41pm

re: #38 fern01

He has called them so much worse - this is his polite option

As “polite” as Trump can be, in spite of himself.

ObserverArt Oct 4, 2017 • 4:27:44pm

re: #40 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Once the Trump gang is expelled, we need a Presidential commission to investigate the disastrous decline in penis size and functionality among certain elements of the population. I am not an epidemiologist but anecdotal evidence suggests that obesity and alcohol and methamphetamine abuse may be risk factors.

Could be brain shrinkage causes penis shrinkage. We know they don’t use their fucking brains. Don’t use it you lose it.

Blind Frog Belly White Oct 4, 2017 • 4:27:53pm

re: #36 ObserverArt

Don’t over think this.

They want the guns to be automatic so they can play big man/woman warrior. And to be able to shoot off a ton of bullets because they can. It’s a power thing. It really is that simple.

And oh yeah, they are great for mass killing which IS what he wanted them for.

The problem is, we tend to see firing a crapload of bullets as cool. As kids, we imagined ourselves as tommy gun wielding gangsters. We oo-and-ah over Rambo hand carrying his belt-fed machine gun. We lust after the Minigun Jesse Ventura carries in ‘Predator’.

And, of course, we’re all Law Abiding Gun Owners, so why should WE be denied the fun of spraying bullets?

(Answer: because this guy was able to kill 59 people in under 15 minutes from 400 yards away, because he wanted to and could afford enough guns to switch off)

austin_blue Oct 4, 2017 • 4:28:01pm

re: #25 KGxvi

I’m still looking for an explanation as to why someone would need a gun that could fire that many rounds in that short a time. That’s really the question I want asked if there are potential hearings:

What possible need does an average person have for a gun, modified or not, that is capable of firing 100 rounds per minute? 75 rounds per minute? 50 rounds per minute? 30 rounds per minute?

To water the tree of Liberty. Alternately because it’s just so *fun*!

ObserverArt Oct 4, 2017 • 4:30:58pm

re: #43 Blind Frog Belly White

The problem is, we tend to see firing a crapload of bullets as cool. As kids, we imagined ourselves as tommy gun wielding gangsters. We oo-and-ah over Rambo hand carrying his belt-fed machine gun. We lust after the Minigun Jesse Ventura carries in ‘Predator’.

And, of course, we’re all Law Abiding Gun Owners, so why should WE be denied the fun of spraying bullets?

(Answer: because this guy was able to kill 59 people in under 15 minutes from 400 yards away, because he wanted to and could afford enough guns to switch off)

What is this “we” stuff?

I have been anti-gun since the Vietnam war, Kent State, etc. When I was a kid I played army a bit, but even that didn’t last long. By the time I was 12 I was into model cars, model trains and stuff like that. Never was much of a warrior.

Dave In Austin Oct 4, 2017 • 4:31:21pm

re: #44 austin_blue

To water the tree of Liberty. Alternately because it’s just so *fun*!

I always found firing an a weapon in full auto invigorating….. I’d be lying if I said different. It’s LOTS of fun.

Ace Rothstein Oct 4, 2017 • 4:31:42pm

re: #36 ObserverArt

There are many videos on YouTube that show exactly what you’re talking about.

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 4:34:18pm

CNN has Jonathan Smith, one of the heroes of Sunday night on.

Dave In Austin Oct 4, 2017 • 4:34:43pm

Damn, that’s a devastating self-description from D’Souza. pic.twitter.com/RmFBarcik3

— Kevin M. Kruse (@KevinMKruse) October 4, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote Image

goddamnedfrank Oct 4, 2017 • 4:34:48pm

Thank God Paddock didn’t figure out that FN makes a semi-auto civilian legal version of the M249 SAW that takes 200 round belts. Don’t know if anybody makes a bump stock for that and don’t want to find out.

ObserverArt Oct 4, 2017 • 4:36:49pm

re: #47 Ace Rothstein

There are many videos on YouTube that show exactly what you’re talking about.

Doesn’t surprise me.

I posted a video at the end of the thread two threads ago of a young lady getting off on installing her bump-fire system and going on and shooting a ton of bullets.

Here is the link to the comment and video: Comment with Bump-Fire Video

austin_blue Oct 4, 2017 • 4:37:42pm

re: #47 Ace Rothstein

There are many videos on YouTube that show exactly what you’re talking about.

And there are “Whoop!”s at the end of pretty much every one of them. Lotsa back slapping and high fives. I get it. Firing a machine gun is a gas, right up until the time it hits you just how much metal you are delivering down-range.

Then you suddenly realize how many idiots, ninnies, and feebs there are in the world and how desperately those guns simply *must* be kept out of their hands.

Dave In Austin Oct 4, 2017 • 4:38:28pm

Facebook Post

KGxvi Oct 4, 2017 • 4:38:52pm

re: #43 Blind Frog Belly White

The problem is, we tend to see firing a crapload of bullets as cool. As kids, we imagined ourselves as tommy gun wielding gangsters. We oo-and-ah over Rambo hand carrying his belt-fed machine gun. We lust after the Minigun Jesse Ventura carries in ‘Predator’.

And, of course, we’re all Law Abiding Gun Owners, so why should WE be denied the fun of spraying bullets?

(Answer: because this guy was able to kill 59 people in under 15 minutes from 400 yards away, because he wanted to and could afford enough guns to switch off)

Funny thing is, I grew up doing that sort of thing, I’m even old enough to have owned one of these in the not crazy colors they make them in today:

I also loved shooting video games, particularly the arcade style like this:

Yet I’ve never owned nor fired a real gun. Have no interest in doing so either.

Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines Oct 4, 2017 • 4:40:05pm

It is no accident that the radicalization of the gun culture coincided with the Civil Rights movement in the early 60s. Traditionalists were well entrenched and it took the radicals another decade to gain control of the NRA but they first started making noise around the time of the 1964 election and the passage of the Civil Rights Act.
The fear was that newly freed “negros” would run wild once the yoke of Jim Crow was removed from them, and that guns were absolutely necessary to cope with this. This racism feeds the gun culture to the present day. It is a given among racists that hordes of zombie like “others” will pour out of the inner city to loot, rape and kill “once the welfare checks stop.”
I have noted many times that a lot of the exurbanites I know have their own mythology about conditions in inner city Dallas. They seem to believe that 20 million people live there, and they will keep coming after your women and your stuff until you have shot all of them. This explains both the fast firing guns and the huge ammo stashes to which these people devote so much effort and expense.

TedStriker Oct 4, 2017 • 4:43:53pm

re: #43 Blind Frog Belly White

The problem is, we tend to see firing a crapload of bullets as cool. As kids, we imagined ourselves as tommy gun wielding gangsters. We oo-and-ah over Rambo hand carrying his belt-fed machine gun. We lust after the Minigun Jesse Ventura carries in ‘Predator’.

And, of course, we’re all Law Abiding Gun Owners, so why should WE be denied the fun of spraying bullets?

(Answer: because this guy was able to kill 59 people in under 15 minutes from 400 yards away, because he wanted to and could afford enough guns to switch off)

I ain’t gonna lie; part of me would love to shoot some big-ass guns at full auto, “Ol’ Painless from Predator is a prime example. However, if it’s a choice between having the “freedom” and opportunity to shoot guns like that (or ARs/AKs/Ma Deuces, etc. at full chat) or having some laws being put in place nationwide (and enforced) to make what happened in Vegas and countless other massacres much harder to happen, I’ll take the laws.

To all of the ammosexuals and gun nuts, here’s one for you:

You want to play with semi-auto and auto weapons, either play one of the multitude of first-person-shooter video games (I’m currently playing Playerunknown’s Battlegrounds right now myself) or join the fucking military if you want to use them for real.

Interesting Times Oct 4, 2017 • 4:47:39pm

re: #56 TedStriker

To all of the ammosexuals and gun nuts, here’s one for you:

You want to play with semi-auto and auto weapons, either play one of the multitude of first-person-shooter video games (I’m currently playing Playerunknown’s Battlegrounds right now myself) or join the fucking military if you want to use them for real.

Another idea, if wannabe-rambos are that bloody desperate: gun ranges can rent those weapons out for use on the range only (and hopefully no one will be stupid enough to let kids have a go).

austin_blue Oct 4, 2017 • 4:47:41pm

re: #55 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

It is no accident that the radicalization of the gun culture coincided with the Civil Rights movement in the early 60s. Traditionalists were well entrenched and it took the radicals another decade to gain control of the NRA but they first started making noise around the time of the 1964 election and the passage of the Civil Rights Act.
The fear was that newly freed “negros” would run wild once the yoke of Jim Crow was removed from them, and that guns were absolutely necessary to cope with this. This racism feeds the gun culture to the present day. It is a given among racists that hordes of zombie like “others” will pour out of the inner city to loot, rape and kill “once the welfare checks stop.”
I have noted many times that a lot of the exubanites I know have their own mythology about conditions in inner city Dallas. They seem to believe that 20 million people live there, and they will keep coming after your women and your stuff until you have shot all of them. This explains both the fast firing guns and the huge ammo stashes to which these people devote so much effort and expense.

It’s the huge ammo stashes that just make me smh. There is is simply no way they could put that much metal through their tubes without ruining the barrels. This whole Farnham’s Freehold fever dream survivalist fantasy schtick is just as silly as tits on a boar hog.

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 4:48:10pm

The other thing about guns is we try to link them with manhood and masculinity. I remember a reporter for maybe the NYT admitted to feeling some trepidation about holding one of these and he got mocked as a “pussy” for saying so, TBH, I’ve never felt the need to own a gun. I wasn’t brought up with them. And I’ll be honest. I’m not really fond of them either because of their destructive power and as you all know, gun violence has come close to home for me both in my personal life and having to worry about friends and family who attended Virginia Tech at the time of the 2007 shootings. I don’t mind hunting. It’s not for me but I accept it’s a part of life in rural areas just as I understand why someone would want to protect themselves. What I don’t understand is why someone like the murderer would need so many of these or why these bump stocks are needed.

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 4:48:51pm

Gun ownership is linked with patriotism and religion. It’s a twisted thing IMO.

Decatur Deb Oct 4, 2017 • 4:49:24pm

re: #55 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

…
I have noted many times that a lot of the exubanites I know have their own mythology about conditions in inner city Dallas…

Sorry, SK—

I walked down the street
It was a street in a strange world
Often it was the Third World
Sometimes it was my first time around
I didn’t speak the language
I held no currency
I was a foreign man.

But no place ever made me hinkier than downtown Dallas at mid-afternoon. It was full of zombies, and there were no angels in the architecture.

EPR-radar Oct 4, 2017 • 4:51:47pm

Here’s a masterpiece from Twitter:

The GOP insists that the Vegas shooter’s gun arsenal is a “right,” but medical treatment for his 500+ survivors is merely a “privilege.”

Backwoods_Sleuth Oct 4, 2017 • 4:52:27pm

re: #46 Dave In Austin

I always found firing an a weapon in full auto invigorating….. I’d be lying if I said different. It’s LOTS of fun.

For me, guns have always been tools that demand respect from the operator, but when it comes to fun stuff, hands down it has always been tracer rounds at night.

TedStriker Oct 4, 2017 • 4:52:33pm

re: #50 goddamnedfrank

Thank God Paddock didn’t figure out that FN makes a semi-auto civilian legal version of the M249 SAW that takes 200 round belts. Don’t know if anybody makes a bump stock for that and don’t want to find out.

If he had (and a bumpstock exists for it), we could easily be talking about fatalities in the hundreds and total casualties in the low thousands, depending on how much ammo he brought in and when he decided it was enough carnage and ate that bullet before the cops could nab him.

austin_blue Oct 4, 2017 • 4:53:14pm

re: #60 HappyWarrior

Gun ownership is linked with patriotism and religion. It’s a twisted thing IMO.

Praise The Lord And Pass The Ammunition.

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 4:53:54pm

re: #65 austin_blue

Praise The Lord And pass The Ammunition.

Yep. Or the talk that the second amendment is religious in inspiration.

Backwoods_Sleuth Oct 4, 2017 • 4:54:26pm

San Bernardino, 14 dead & 22 injured:

Ban all Muslims!

-

Las Vegas, 59 dead & 527 injured:

There’s nothing we can do!

— jordan ghoul 👻☠️🎃 (@JordanUhl) October 4, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

sigh…

goddamnedfrank Oct 4, 2017 • 4:54:47pm

re: #36 ObserverArt

Don’t over think this.

They want the guns to be automatic so they can play big man/woman warrior. And to be able to shoot off a ton of bullets because they can. It’s a power thing. It really is that simple.

And oh yeah, they are great for mass killing which IS what he wanted them for.

The entire reason for the development of the assault rifle was so the average infantry soldier could advance under their own “walking fire” instead of having to rely on a few dedicated machine gunners to suppress the enemy from a fixed position. Submachine-guns were useless past a hundred yards or so and they wanted something that could carry more ammo than a full sized “battle” rifle which was overkill for most engagement distances. The were purposely designed around the lessons learned on modern battlefields and have no real use away from that setting.

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 4:55:00pm

What we have is an interesting disconnect. People who demand patriotism but also insist they need to be able to amass arsenals to protect themselves in case our government turns into Nazi Germany 2.0.

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 4:55:16pm

re: #67 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

sigh…

That about says it all.

Ace Rothstein Oct 4, 2017 • 4:55:52pm

re: #55 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Gov. Reagan was all about gun control after blacks showed up at the state house legally with shotguns.

austin_blue Oct 4, 2017 • 4:56:08pm

re: #64 TedStriker

If he had (and a bumpstock exists for it), we could easily be talking about fatalities in the hundreds and total casualties in the low thousands, depending on how much ammo he brought in and when he decided it was enough carnage and ate that bullet before the cops could nab him.

That gun would have locked up before he pushed all 200 rounds through it, for reasons the Shiplord has explained. Believe ME!

William Lewis Oct 4, 2017 • 4:56:52pm

re: #50 goddamnedfrank

Thank God Paddock didn’t figure out that FN makes a semi-auto civilian legal version of the M249 SAW that takes 200 round belts. Don’t know if anybody makes a bump stock for that and don’t want to find out.

Given he apparently had plenty of money, I’m simply surprised he didn’t just go ahead and visit a class III dealer. M1919A4 belt fed either 30-06 or 7.62 Nato runs about $20,000 for a transferable one.

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 4:57:41pm

re: #71 Ace Rothstein

Gov. Reagan was all about gun control after blacks showed up at the state house legally with shotguns.

And the NRA loved him. Obama actually did more to expand firearms rights (the firearms in national parks) than limit them but the NRA hates Obama. Gun politics has always been dishonest bullshit and it’s something I saw first here in Virginia during the McDonnell-Deeds race. Both candidates with records that the NRA liked on guns but the NRA attacked the Dem mercilessly.

ObserverArt Oct 4, 2017 • 4:57:42pm

re: #62 EPR-radar

Here’s a masterpiece from Twitter:

And we can’t talk about taking away any of those gun rights right now because there was a mass shooting.

But it is perfectly fine to talk about not doing anything about the guns that killed and maimed a ton of people while the families of those people hurt and killed suffer.

Seems to me the victims would love to talk about doing something about guns.

And again, the sickening thing is every single Republican sticks to the talking point of “it’s too early.” I wonder what that costs the NRA?

Charles Johnson Oct 4, 2017 • 4:58:20pm

WE LOVE YOU LAS VEGAS! pic.twitter.com/nxRWeR1gEz

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 4, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote Retweet Video

Good freaking grief. In what universe is this appropriate? What is wrong with this lunatic? https://t.co/jR1cBL9HNo

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) October 4, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 4:58:37pm

re: #75 ObserverArt

And we can’t talk about taking away any of those gun rights right now because there was a mass shooting.

But it is perfectly fine to talk about not doing anything about the guns that killed and maimed a ton of people while the families of those people hurt and killed suffer.

Seems to me the victims would love to talk about doing something about guns.

And again, the sickening thing is every single Republican sticks to the talking point of “it’s too early.” I wonder what that costs the NRA?

I dream of the day that the NRA eventually goes bankrupt.

austin_blue Oct 4, 2017 • 4:59:51pm

re: #75 ObserverArt

And we can’t talk about taking away any of those gun rights right now because there was a mass shooting.

But it is perfectly fine to talk about not doing anything about the guns that killed and maimed a ton of people while the families of those people hurt and killed suffer.

Seems to me the victims would love to talk about doing something about guns.

And again, the sickening thing is every single Republican sticks to the talking point of “it’s too early.” I wonder what that costs the NRA?

$6,000,000 last cycle. Chicken feed for their real funders- the manufacturers. They aren’t running out of money unless the guys who make the guns that they push are shut down from selling them. The NRA as we know it today arose after the Assault Weapons Ban. True fact.

(edited)

EPR-radar Oct 4, 2017 • 5:00:52pm

re: #77 HappyWarrior

I dream of the day that the NRA eventually goes bankrupt.

I dream of the day when t**** enters the language as a general purpose obscenity: “Shit, you really t****ed that up, you idiot!”

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 5:01:02pm

Have one view that isn’t absolute gun ownership and the NRA/GOA will label you a gun grabber. It’s such horesshit.

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 5:01:25pm

re: #79 EPR-radar

I dream of the day when t**** enters the language as a general purpose obscenity: “Shit, you really t****ed that up, you idiot!”

Well we can dream more than once on the same day heh. That’s a good dream too.

ObserverArt Oct 4, 2017 • 5:01:39pm

re: #69 HappyWarrior

What we have is an interesting disconnect. People who demand patriotism but also insist they need to be able to amass arsenals to protect themselves in case our government turns into Nazi Germany 2.0.

While they are seemingly turning into a Nazi Germany-like group themselves.

lawhawk Oct 4, 2017 • 5:02:18pm

Thread time.

NJ Sen. Menendez is on trial; witness testified that friend donated $300k to NJ Dems ahead of meeting. https://t.co/XSjWcfAHST

— lawhawk (@lawhawk) October 4, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

So, the trial of NJ Senator Menendez continued today, with a witness testifying that his friend Melgen gave $300,000 to NJ Democrats ahead of a big meeting.

The implication here is that the money was a quid pro quo that would benefit Melgen.

There’s a whiff of smoke there, but the US Supreme Court makes the threshold for what is corruption these days very high considering all the corruption cases thrown out recently (including convictions of people like NY legislators Silver and Bruno and Skelos).

Okay. That’s still pretty bad for Menendez.

Now compare that to what we’ve learned so far about the Trumps and their avoidance of being indicted for felony fraud a few years back.

$25,000 donated to the Manhattan DA and the charges dropped. Prosecutors thought they had a great case against Ivanka and Donald Jr. Emails had shown that they knowingly misled the prospective buyers of units at the Trump SoHo project. Civil lawsuits may have gotten settled, but the emails showed intent to defraud.

So in swooped Kasowitz to make it all go away.

Trump and Kasowitz knew, and they covered up a crime.

Vance is in jeopardy here too. AG Schneiderman needs to investigate the matter too. It doesn’t matter that Vance is also a Democrat here. If he broke law, he needs to visit prison on an extended stay.

We saw Trump donate to AG Pam Biondi in FL to get his Trump U scam school off the hook there. It’s all Trump knows to do.

He’s gotten away with it for a long time. That has to end.

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 5:02:22pm

re: #82 ObserverArt

While they are seemingly turning into a Nazi Germany-like group themselves.

Yeah, that’s the irony isn’t it?

lawhawk Oct 4, 2017 • 5:02:55pm

Only purpose of an AR-15 is to shoot and kill (people or animals).
Only purpose of modifying to high speed shooting: kill people.
Any Qs?

— lawhawk (@lawhawk) October 4, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 5:03:10pm

re: #83 lawhawk

Thread time.

[Embedded content]

So, the trial of NJ Senator Menendez continued today, with a witness testifying that his friend Melgen gave $300,000 to NJ Democrats ahead of a big meeting.

The implication here is that the money was a quid pro quo that would benefit Melgen.

There’s a whiff of smoke there, but the US Supreme Court makes the threshold for what is corruption these days very high considering all the corruption cases thrown out recently (including convictions of people like NY legislators Silver and Bruno and Skelos).

Okay. That’s still pretty bad for Menendez.

Now compare that to what we’ve learned so far about the Trumps and their avoidance of being indicted for felony fraud a few years back.

$25,000 donated to the Manhattan DA and the charges dropped. Prosecutors thought they had a great case against Ivanka and Donald Jr. Emails had shown that they knowingly misled the prospective buyers of units at the Trump SoHo project. Civil lawsuits may have gotten settled, but the emails showed intent to defraud.

So in swooped Kasowitz to make it all go away.

Trump and Kasowitz knew, and they covered up a crime.

Vance is in jeopardy here too. AG Schneiderman needs to investigate the matter too. It doesn’t matter that Vance is also a Democrat here. If he broke law, he needs to visit prison on an extended stay.

We saw Trump donate to AG Pam Biondi in FL to get his Trump U scam school off the hook there. It’s all Trump knows to do.

He’s gotten away with it for a long time. That has to end.

What a mess.

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 5:04:18pm

re: #84 HappyWarrior

Yeah, that’s the irony isn’t it?

It’s just projection. They accuse civilized people of wanting to put them in camps or exterminate them, because that’s what they want to do to people who know how to be Americans.

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 5:04:25pm

re: #85 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

FFS They’re supposed to be dangerous. Stop acting like guns are anything but what they’er supposed to be, you fucking idiot. There’s a reason why these things were invented. And it was to fire rapid amounts of ammo in a short term. To act otherwise is fucking cowardice.

TedStriker Oct 4, 2017 • 5:04:53pm

re: #73 William Lewis

Given he apparently had plenty of money, I’m simply surprised he didn’t just go ahead and visit a class III dealer. M1919A4 belt fed either 30-06 or 7.62 Nato runs about $20,000 for a transferable one.

M1919s and Ma Deuces, while barely man-portable, are huge, heavy, deafening, and unwieldy in an enclosed position like he was in, not to mention he’d have to tote it in in pieces and reassemble it in the room and he wouldn’t be able to stow it out of sight.

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 5:04:59pm

re: #87 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

It’s just projection. They accuse civilized people of wanting to put them in camps or exterminate them, because that’s what they want to do to people who know how to be Americans.

Absolutely. The Religious Right likens LGBT and secular activists to the Nazis all the while they actually support things like criminalizing homosexuality and not being the right religion.

Eclectic Cyborg Oct 4, 2017 • 5:05:02pm

Shameless page promotion:

The (gun) problem we all live with

plansbandc Oct 4, 2017 • 5:06:14pm

re: #85 lawhawk

Not dangerous when used properly. Jesus H. Christ in a sidecar.

ObserverArt Oct 4, 2017 • 5:06:32pm

re: #78 austin_blue

$6,000,000 last cycle. Chicken feed for their real funders- the manufacturers.

Which means if an equal amount was donated to every single congressperson (535) it would be $11,215.00 to each.

It would be interesting to know how many members do take NRA money.

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 5:07:06pm

re: #25 KGxvi

I’m still looking for an explanation as to why someone would need a gun that could fire that many rounds in that short a time. That’s really the question I want asked if there are potential hearings:

What possible need does an average person have for a gun, modified or not, that is capable of firing 100 rounds per minute? 75 rounds per minute? 50 rounds per minute? 30 rounds per minute?

They say the 2nd, meant to put down insurrections, gives them the right to have these weapons to overthrow the government. As usual, the Conservatives invert reality.

William Lewis Oct 4, 2017 • 5:07:23pm

re: #89 TedStriker

M1919s and Ma Deuces, while man-portable, are huge, heavy, deafening, and unwieldy in an enclosed position like he was in.

Oh, I’m very aware. I’m simply pointing out that he could have gotten much worse weapons - completely legally - for the kind of money he was throwing around between all his rifles and gambling.

electrotek Oct 4, 2017 • 5:07:58pm

LOL they carry Oakleys HAHAHAHAHAAH

Facebook Post

austin_blue Oct 4, 2017 • 5:08:30pm

re: #83 lawhawk

Thread time.

[Embedded content]

So, the trial of NJ Senator Menendez continued today, with a witness testifying that his friend Melgen gave $300,000 to NJ Democrats ahead of a big meeting.

The implication here is that the money was a quid pro quo that would benefit Melgen.

There’s a whiff of smoke there, but the US Supreme Court makes the threshold for what is corruption these days very high considering all the corruption cases thrown out recently (including convictions of people like NY legislators Silver and Bruno and Skelos).

Okay. That’s still pretty bad for Menendez.

Now compare that to what we’ve learned so far about the Trumps and their avoidance of being indicted for felony fraud a few years back.

$25,000 donated to the Manhattan DA and the charges dropped. Prosecutors thought they had a great case against Ivanka and Donald Jr. Emails had shown that they knowingly misled the prospective buyers of units at the Trump SoHo project. Civil lawsuits may have gotten settled, but the emails showed intent to defraud.

So in swooped Kasowitz to make it all go away.

Trump and Kasowitz knew, and they covered up a crime.

Vance is in jeopardy here too. AG Schneiderman needs to investigate the matter too. It doesn’t matter that Vance is also a Democrat here. If he broke law, he needs to visit prison on an extended stay.

We saw Trump donate to AG Pam Biondi in FL to get his Trump U scam school off the hook there. It’s all Trump knows to do.

He’s gotten away with it for a long time. That has to end.

I think he’s filthy and up to his neck in it. Convict the fucker and lose him in the System.

And if what he did isn’t *strictly* convictable in law, then the laws must be changed so that elected office isn’t simply simply a position where one can enrich themselves to the detriment of the citizens whom they represent.

whitebeach Oct 4, 2017 • 5:09:38pm

re: #63 Backwoods_Sleuth

For me, guns have always been tools that demand respect from the operator, but when it comes to fun stuff, hands down it has always been tracer rounds at night.

Here I am! Here I am! Right over here!

GlutenFreeJesus Oct 4, 2017 • 5:11:16pm

re: #63 Backwoods_Sleuth

For me, guns have always been tools that demand respect from the operator, but when it comes to fun stuff, hands down it has always been tracer rounds at night.

I’ve been to 2 Knob Creek night shoots. Those are a lot of fun to witness. Just stay behind cover. One year, a guy got his arm nearly severed off by shrapnel from down range.

100

Charles Johnson Oct 4, 2017 • 5:11:38pm

Stunning look at the hotel room, filled with guns, from which Paddock launched his mass shooting in Las Vegas https://t.co/XLKxAYW6uX pic.twitter.com/Q4tuzYUlhh

— Clifford Levy (@cliffordlevy) October 4, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote Image

101

Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines Oct 4, 2017 • 5:12:17pm

Harlon Carter was the nutcake who led the radical coup at the NRA in 1977. A retired Border Patrol officer, he had served on the NRA board since 1951. He once said, in opposition to the Gun Control Act of 1968 (which the NRA itself officially endorsed) “that the use of guns by violent criminals and the mentally ill is the ‘price we pay for freedom’”.
In 1976, traditionalists had attempted a purge of Carter supporters, firing 74 of them from the NRA staff. It backfired and Carter ended up taking over and purging the traditionalists instead.
In 1981, while Carter was executive director, the media learned that he had been convicted of murder as a 17 year old in 1930. The victim was one Ramón Casiano, 15. The conviction was overturned on a technicality, improper jury instructions. Carter claimed self defense since Casiano pulled a knife on him. However, Casiano had only pulled the knife because Carter was trying to kidnap him and take him to his, Carter’s, home for “questioning” about a car theft.

102

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 5:12:31pm

re: #100 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I don’t care if it makes me a “gun grabber.” A civilian shouldn’t have access to those weapons.

103

petesh Oct 4, 2017 • 5:14:16pm

re: #22 makeitstop

Alfa Bank server.

Thanks for the reminder.
dailykos.com

104

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 5:14:52pm

re: #101 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Harlon Carter was the nutcake who led the radical coup at the NRA in 1977. A retired Border Patrol officer, he had served on the NRA board since 1951. He once said, in opposition to the Gun Control Act of 1968 (which the NRA itself officially endorsed) “that the use of guns by violent criminals and the mentally ill is the ‘price we pay for freedom’”.
In 1976, traditionalists had attempted a purge of Carter supporters, firing 74 of them from the NRA staff. It backfired and Carter ended up taking over and purging the traditionalists instead.
In 1981, while Carter was executive director, the media learned that he had been convicted of murder as a 17 year old in 1930. The victim was one Ramón Casiano, 15. The conviction was overturned on a technicality, improper jury instructions. Carter claimed self defense since Casiano pulled a knife on him. However, Casiano had only pulled the knife because Carter was trying to kidnap him and take him to his, Carter’s, home for “questioning” about a car theft.

Very interesting, read SK. Didn’t know about him and the inter-fighting within the NRA. He sounds like a real asshole and nutcase.

105

lawhawk Oct 4, 2017 • 5:14:58pm

Worst President in history is surrounded by the very worst the US has to offer w/the worst SoS being thin line keeping foreign policy stable

— lawhawk (@lawhawk) October 5, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

106

TedStriker Oct 4, 2017 • 5:15:27pm

re: #72 austin_blue

That gun would have locked up before he pushed all 200 rounds through it, for reasons the Shiplord has explained. Believe ME!

The M249 has quick-change barrels IIRC, unless they made the civilian version with a fixed barrel.

107

austin_blue Oct 4, 2017 • 5:16:20pm

re: #100 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

That’s the picture I saw. There are twelve 100-round magazines stacked to the left of the circular pillar in the center of the room, never used.

Thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

108

Decatur Deb Oct 4, 2017 • 5:17:58pm

re: #98 whitebeach

Here I am! Here I am! Right over here!

Heh. “Tracer works both ways.”

109

ObserverArt Oct 4, 2017 • 5:19:26pm

re: #99 GlutenFreeJesus

I’ve been to 2 Knob Creek night shoots. Those are a lot of fun to witness. Just stay behind cover. One year, a guy got his arm nearly severed off by shrapnel from down range.

Wow, sounds like fun.

/// infinity.

Point being: even if there is fun, there is still a good degree of danger.

110

lawhawk Oct 4, 2017 • 5:19:47pm

Pool: After AF1 landed, Sarah Sanders came back and told us that the President has been briefed on Niger.

— Zeke Miller (@ZekeJMiller) October 5, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

3 US special forces were killed, 2 injured in an ambush during a joint training exercise with Nigerian forces.

111

Charles Johnson Oct 4, 2017 • 5:20:13pm

He also had 10 1-pound containers of tannerite and 2 20-pound containers of tannerite, and an unspecified amount of ammonium nitrate, which is used to combine with tannerite to make a high explosive.

It seems like he was actually planning a much worse mass murder.

His girlfriend returned from the Philippines and was interviewed - she said she had no idea he was planning this.

112

Dave In Austin Oct 4, 2017 • 5:20:15pm

re: #63 Backwoods_Sleuth

I need to emphasize, my time was all military…. I was on the Ft. Rucker rifle team back in 78’. We couldn’t turn partial cases of ammunition back in, so rock and roll.

113

Eventual Carrion Oct 4, 2017 • 5:20:55pm

CL in basement, report here since I never type that much :-)

re: #171 Jebediah, RBG

But but but maybe you are in the auto parts store, throwing things around?
Related: If you’re not sure if you’ve blown a seal or not, how can you be sure?
Ask the seal; he’ll probably remember.

This penguin decides to take a snowmobile trip. So he takes off on his sled over the snow. A while into the trip the engine starts acting up. He is near a small town so he limps the sled into town.
He pulls up to the garage in the middle of town. He says to the walrus mechanic, “I’m having some trouble with my ride, can you take a look?”. The walrus says, “Yeah I can look. Give me an hour.”. The penguin asks him, “Ok cool. Where can I get something to eat? A good fish sandwich maybe?”.The Walrus tells him there is a nice place over 2 blocks. The penguin takes off.
Little over an hour later the penguin comes back to the garage and asks the walrus, “Get a chance to look at my sled?”. The walrus turns to him and says, “Yeah, looks like you blew a seal.”. The penguin says while wiping his mouth, “No no, that’s just tarter sauce.”.

114

Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines Oct 4, 2017 • 5:20:57pm

re: #104 HappyWarrior

Very interesting, read SK. Didn’t know about him and the inter-fighting within the NRA. He sounds like a real asshole and nutcase.

Drive By Truckers have a song about Ramón Casiano on their album American Band.

115

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 5:21:35pm

re: #114 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Drive By Truckers have a song about Ramón Casiano on their album American Band.

Yeah I saw that. I like them.

116

Scout Oct 4, 2017 • 5:22:07pm

re: #108 Decatur Deb

Heh. “Tracer works both ways.”

One of my oldest television memories is from just after we got our first color TV. On the evening news they had a report from Vietnam showing U.S. troops at dusk, firing a machine gun with red tracers into the jungle.

I was probably 5 or 6 years old. I thought it was “cool.”

117

Charles Johnson Oct 4, 2017 • 5:22:33pm

.@MicroPrimeTime’s account is now suspended, and that means this freak will be back on Twitter soon because Twitter doesn’t stop that.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) October 5, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

118

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 5:24:11pm

I liked water guns and toy guns but honest real guns never interested me. My grandfather had a firearms collection in his basement that he kept really secure.

119

Dave In Austin Oct 4, 2017 • 5:24:52pm

As a tattle tail on Twitter, so far my success rate has been 100%

120

plansbandc Oct 4, 2017 • 5:25:44pm

Off topic. Well, my sportsball team has tanked it up so severely there’s no reason to watch anymore. Good season though. Shit.

121

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 5:27:03pm

re: #117 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Is there anyone who didn’t read that turd’s username as Micropenis?

122

Charles Johnson Oct 4, 2017 • 5:28:44pm

Two of the worst things that happen on Twitter:

1. Deliberately deceptive “news.”

2. Trolls who get suspended, then return & do it again.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) October 5, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

These things have been a huge problem for YEARS, but Twitter still has no explicit way to report either one.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) October 5, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

123

Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines Oct 4, 2017 • 5:31:32pm

re: #110 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

3 US special forces were killed, 2 injured in an ambush during a joint training exercise with Nigerian forces.

Now those are the guys who really need top quality automatic weapons. Sadly it’s not always enough.

124

EPR-radar Oct 4, 2017 • 5:31:40pm

re: #88 HappyWarrior

FFS They’re supposed to be dangerous. Stop acting like guns are anything but what they’er supposed to be, you fucking idiot. There’s a reason why these things were invented. And it was to fire rapid amounts of ammo in a short term. To act otherwise is fucking cowardice.

Gun humpers pretending that other things are as lethal as guns really irritate me.

To be blunt and crude, the deadliness of guns is precisely why guns are sexual fetishes and objects of religious adoration for gun nuts.

The more deadly a gun is, the harder it makes gun nuts.

125

scottslemmons Oct 4, 2017 • 5:32:15pm

re: #122 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I sometimes toy with the idea of just reporting some of these edge-skirting accounts as spam.

126

wheat-dogg Oct 4, 2017 • 5:33:05pm

re: #125 scottslemmons

I sometimes toy with the idea of just reporting some of these edge-skirting accounts as spam.

They are spam, so report them as such.

127

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 5:33:31pm

re: #124 EPR-radar

Gun humpers pretending that other things are as lethal as guns really irritates me.

To be blunt and crude, the deadliness of guns is precisely why guns are sexual fetishes and objects of religious adoration for gun nuts.

The more deadly a gun is, the harder it makes gun nuts.

I know. Loesch was saying feet can be as dangerous. Are you fucking kidding me? This guy killed 59 people and wounded 500 others in the span of about 10 minutes. You can’t do that with your feet. Now I have seen some people bring up cars and trucks which is okay but we still do regulate vehicles. We stil regulate where they can go. The refusal to even consider any gun regulation by the right is madness.

128

Charles Johnson Oct 4, 2017 • 5:35:03pm

Interesting, so this nutjob’s fake GoFundMe page about his “daughter with cancer” was shut down.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) October 5, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

129

lawhawk Oct 4, 2017 • 5:35:53pm

re: #55 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Think there’s a relationship here that should be explored.

A very small minority of Americans own the overwhelming majority of guns.

3% of Americans own 50% of America’s guns. 78% of Americans don’t own a gun.
It might be worth monitoring the 3%. https://t.co/N8ZYODFcLm

— James Melville (@JamesMelville) October 4, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

Despite all the NRA efforts, the actual ownership among all Americans has declined. Sales continue to climb so more guns are flowing to fewer people.

And why are those people buying guns? It’s not for hunting or sport. It’s because they claim they’re worried about crime and want to protect themselves, even though crime has dropped to historically low levels.

“When I look at our survey, what I see is a population that is living in fear,” Deb Azrael, a Harvard researcher and one of the study’s lead authors, told the nonprofit news organization the Trace. “They are buying handguns to protect themselves against bad guys, they store their guns ready-to-use because of bad guys, and they believe that their guns make them safer.”

This shows a significant shift from the 1990s, when most gun owners said they owned firearms primarily for hunting and target shooting.

130

Charles Johnson Oct 4, 2017 • 5:36:25pm

Paddock planned to survive and escape.

131

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 5:37:15pm

re: #129 lawhawk

Think there’s a relationship here that should be explored.

A very small minority of Americans own the overwhelming majority of guns.

[Embedded content]

Despite all the NRA efforts, the actual ownership among all Americans has declined. Sales continue to climb so more guns are flowing to fewer people.

And why are those people buying guns? It’s not for hunting or sport. It’s because they claim they’re worried about crime and want to protect themselves, even though crime has dropped to historically low levels.

Yep.

132

wheat-dogg Oct 4, 2017 • 5:37:35pm

re: #130 Charles Johnson

Paddock planned to survive and escape.

Daydreaming.

133

wheat-dogg Oct 4, 2017 • 5:39:01pm

re: #129 lawhawk

This is the reason for the “3%” self-identification by some social media denizens — they are saying they own guns so y’all better be afraid, or something.

134

TedStriker Oct 4, 2017 • 5:39:12pm

re: #116 Scout

One of my oldest television memories is from just after we got our first color TV. On the evening news they had a report from Vietnam showing U.S. troops at dusk, firing a machine gun with red tracers into the jungle.

I was probably 5 or 6 years old. I thought it was “cool.”

Now that I think about it, this is probably why Paddock didn’t use any belt-fed weapons (even civvy semi-auto versions), because, AFAIK, most belt-fed ammo, even standard “ball” ammo, has tracers every few rounds and that would have gave away his position much faster.

135

Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines Oct 4, 2017 • 5:40:05pm

re: #129 lawhawk

Think there’s a relationship here that should be explored.

A very small minority of Americans own the overwhelming majority of guns.

[Embedded content]

Despite all the NRA efforts, the actual ownership among all Americans has declined. Sales continue to climb so more guns are flowing to fewer people.

And why are those people buying guns? It’s not for hunting or sport. It’s because they claim they’re worried about crime and want to protect themselves, even though crime has dropped to historically low levels.

That is an amazing statistic but consistent with what I have observed over the years. It also hints that the NRA’s political influence is mainly financial rather than numerical. 78% of Americans don’t have a dog in that fight yet it is the NRA that leads Congress on a leash.

136

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 5:40:32pm

re: #133 wheat-dogg

This is the reason for the “3%” self-identification by some social media denizens — they are saying they own guns so y’all better be afraid, or something.

It’s a form of hoarding yet these are the same people who will bitch about any sort of tax. Maybe don’t spend all your money on fucking guns?

137

TedStriker Oct 4, 2017 • 5:42:06pm

re: #135 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

That is an amazing statistic but consistent with what I have observed over the years. It also hints that the NRA’s political influence is mainly financial rather than numerical. 78% of Americans don’t have a dog in that fight yet it is the NRA that leads Congress on a leash.

The gun industry has completely co-opted the NRA for its own ends, public health and the effects on American society be damned.

138

lawhawk Oct 4, 2017 • 5:43:54pm

re: #135 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

More evidence to support that ownership has declined. WaPo graphic cross referencing gun ownership/type of ownership, by year and by different polling source/methodology. That one goes to 2010. There are other surveys that suggest spikes in sales in conjunction with election years, especially 2008/2009 and then 2012/2013 around Obama election and reelection. GOP/NRA fearmongering on guns led to spike in sales.

139

scottslemmons Oct 4, 2017 • 5:45:00pm

re: #137 TedStriker

The gun industry has completely co-opted the NRA for its own ends, public health and the effects on American society be damned.

And the gun industry has been completely co-opted by white supremacist extremists.

140

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 5:46:21pm

re: #133 wheat-dogg

This is the reason for the “3%” self-identification by some social media denizens — they are saying they own guns so y’all better be afraid, or something.

The yahoos have their arsenals; Civilization has SWAT teams and National Guard.

141

wheat-dogg Oct 4, 2017 • 5:46:32pm

re: #136 HappyWarrior

It’s a form of hoarding yet these are the same people who will bitch about any sort of tax. Maybe don’t spend all your money on fucking guns?

I can think of many other worthwhile things to spend my money on than amassing an unusable number of firearms. I mean, a person only has two arms, so how many of those weapons can you use at once?

142

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 5:47:10pm

Do you guys think there’s anything to the theory that the lead leads to psychological issue and a compulsive to want more and more? I don’t know. Maybe it’s my upbringing but I’d be off put by someone who wanted to have that many guns.

143

Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines Oct 4, 2017 • 5:47:44pm

If I lived in town, I would still have my gun collection (such as it is) but I would very seldom take any of them out of the safe. As it is I usually carry a big bore handgun (Ruger Super Blackhawk) and a shotgun with me on the farm, since we really do have unpleasant wildlife around here. I usually have the Ruger in my pack rather than a side holster, since I hate wearing a holster. It is like shooting full auto, past associations make it seem too much like hard work.

144

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 5:47:47pm

re: #141 wheat-dogg

I can think of many other worthwhile things to spend my money on than amassing an unusable number of firearms. I mean, a person only has two arms, so how many of those weapons can you use at once?

Right. It’s like I see some absurdly wealthy people do with automobiles and shoes. But at least those aren’t deadly hobbeis.

145

BeachDem Oct 4, 2017 • 5:48:02pm

re: #93 ObserverArt

Which means if an equal amount was donated to every single congressperson (535) it would be $11,215.00 to each.

It would be interesting to know how many members do take NRA money.

Here you go:

Has your U.S. Congress person received donations from the NRA?

washingtonpost.com

146

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 5:48:42pm

re: #142 HappyWarrior

Do you guys think there’s anything to the theory that the lead leads to psychological issue and a compulsive to want more and more? I don’t know. Maybe it’s my upbringing but I’d be off put by someone who wanted to have that many guns.

My only friend who’s into guns had to stop because of lead poisoning. His friend, who has much worse poisoning, decided he’d rather have lead poisoning than stop playing with guns.

147

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 5:49:13pm

re: #145 BeachDem

Here you go:

Has your U.S. Congress person received donations from the NRA?

washingtonpost.com

$14, 850 for Comstock. Hopefully Jen Wexton or whoever the Dem nominee is next year presses her on that.Fuck the NRA and their blood money.

148

dangerman Oct 4, 2017 • 5:51:24pm

last night we watched the last episode of the sopranos

in that episode, Carmella makes steak pizzaiola
so i had to make it tonight

i’ve done that on occasion - make something cause i read it in a novel or saw in a movie and it sounded soooo good in the context

didnt do too badly for a first attempt

also in the episode she made lincoln log sandwiches for AJ - apparently his favorite.
i will NOT be making them - i would gladly sooner eat pineapple on pizza

and i will not link to them - like some websites they are just evil
you can look them up yourself

Quora asks “what’s a good recipe for a lincoln log sandwich?”
my answer: there is none

who thought this up and figured it would be a good idea?
how did it ever catch on?

have any of you ever had one? eat em regularly?

149

Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines Oct 4, 2017 • 5:52:37pm

re: #142 HappyWarrior

Do you guys think there’s anything to the theory that the lead leads to psychological issue and a compulsive to want more and more? I don’t know. Maybe it’s my upbringing but I’d be off put by someone who wanted to have that many guns.

I’ve thought about that. Someone I know is convinced that the lead in .22 ammunition has affected his health, and he really has been diagnosed with heavy metal poisoning. It’s the hot dust from the muzzle and around the action that is likely to be dangerous rather than handling the solid bullets themselves. There has been surprisingly little research on this though.

150

Charles Johnson Oct 4, 2017 • 5:52:59pm

It couldn’t be more obvious that he’s using the fact that Trump retweeted him to grift from gullible right wingers.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) October 5, 2017

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151

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 5:54:42pm

re: #149 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

I’ve thought about that. Someone I know is convinced that the lead in .22 ammunition has affected his health, and he really has been diagnosed with heavy metal poisoning. It’s the hot dust from the muzzle and around the action that is likely to be dangerous rather than handling the solid bullets themselves. There has been surprisingly little research on this though.

That is the disappointing thing. We try to research this stuff and the NRA is always there to block it. It makes me wonder. I don’t mind firearm ownership so I don’t begrudge you or any of the others here. As I said, it’s not for me but I understand why people own guns. I don’t understand why people need assault rifles. I can even understand why someone would want to go to a range and shoot one. I’m actually fine with that too but personal ownership is a brdge too far for me.

152

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 5:55:08pm

I can’t stand the constant gossip called political discussion.

GRIFTUS thrives on it.

153

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 5:56:23pm

re: #148 dangerman

I”m watching Peaky Blinders.

It’s another version of the Sopranos —sexy modern intro music and all.

154

Charles Johnson Oct 4, 2017 • 5:56:48pm

If Secretary of State Rex Tillerson ends up bailing out, it may very well lead to a total collapse of this sham presidency.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) October 5, 2017

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155

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 5:57:25pm

re: #142 HappyWarrior

Do you guys think there’s anything to the theory that the lead leads to psychological issue and a compulsive to want more and more? I don’t know. Maybe it’s my upbringing but I’d be off put by someone who wanted to have that many guns.

OCD? Collectors do not seem to choose the object of their obsession.

Mine are books and jewelry.

156

EPR-radar Oct 4, 2017 • 5:58:20pm

re: #151 HappyWarrior

That is the disappointing thing. We try to research this stuff and the NRA is always there to block it. It makes me wonder. I don’t mind firearm ownership so I don’t begrudge you or any of the others here. As I said, it’s not for me but I understand why people own guns. I don’t understand why people need assault rifles. I can even understand why someone would want to go to a range and shoot one. I’m actually fine with that too but personal ownership is a brdge too far for me.

I’ll be the first to admit that many years of NRA intransigence on guns had radicalized me in opposition to their views. Now I’ve come to the point where I think the second amendment should be repealed. The right to keep and bear arms can duke it out in the courts with the other unenumerated rights, like the right to have a civilized society where sensible measures are taken to reduce gun deaths.

Five years from now, I will probably be in support of banning everything except hunting rifles.

157

prairiefire Oct 4, 2017 • 5:59:33pm

re: #146 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

My only friend who’s into guns had to stop because of lead poisoning. His friend, who has much worse poisoning, decided he’d rather have lead poisoning than stop playing with guns.

How would they absorb the lead?

158

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:01:07pm

re: #157 prairiefire

How would they absorb the lead?

Dust in the air in indoor ranges, picking up brass from a floor covered with lead-dust, and handling bullets when loading their own rounds.

159

prairiefire Oct 4, 2017 • 6:01:13pm

re: #155 Birth Control Works

OCD? Collectors do not seem to choose the object of their obsession.

Mine are books and jewelry.

Yep, many collectors are COLLECTORS.

160

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:01:33pm

re: #156 EPR-radar

I’ll be the first to admit that many years of NRA intransigence on guns had radicalized me in opposition to their views. Now I’ve come to the point where I think the second amendment should be repealed. The right to keep and bear arms can duke it out in the courts with the other unenumerated rights, like the right to have a civilized society where sensible measures are taken to reduce gun deaths.

Five years from now, I will probably be in support of banning everything except hunting rifles.

Why are firearm deaths considered worse than any other violent death?

America and her firearms is a combination that is not going away.

As always, IMHO, the answer is education. Take away the mystique.

I’ve always found it interesting that the crime rates in this country started to rise about the same time the draft was repealed. Young men were no longer being groomed by old men on the use of the weapon.

Vietnam screwed us in so many ways.

161

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:02:09pm

re: #157 prairiefire

How would they absorb the lead?

lead is inert —no?

162

prairiefire Oct 4, 2017 • 6:02:51pm

re: #158 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Dust in the air in indoor ranges, picking up brass from a floor covered with lead-dust, and handling bullets when loading their own rounds.

Wow, that opens up a lot of questions to gun nut jobs cognitive abilities.

163

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:02:52pm

re: #159 prairiefire

Yep, many collectors are COLLECTORS.

many firearms are purchased and rarely, if ever fired. Doing so would decrease their value.

164

Charles Johnson Oct 4, 2017 • 6:03:17pm

The photos of Trump grinning like a fucking moron in HOSPITALS where people are fighting for their lives make me want to hurl.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) October 5, 2017

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165

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:03:48pm

re: #162 prairiefire

Wow, that opens up a lot of questions to gun nut jobs cognitive abilities.

I think that is a not a valid idea. If so, there would be much, much more evidence —health problems, children born with deficiencies.

166

Charles Johnson Oct 4, 2017 • 6:04:50pm

This presidency is a complete goddamned nightmare on every level.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) October 5, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

167

prairiefire Oct 4, 2017 • 6:04:52pm

re: #163 Birth Control Works

many firearms are purchased and rarely, if ever fired. Doing so would decrease their value.

Like taking my dolls or toys out of their boxes, lol.

168

teleskiguy Oct 4, 2017 • 6:05:44pm

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

169

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:05:51pm

re: #129 lawhawk

Think there’s a relationship here that should be explored.

A very small minority of Americans own the overwhelming majority of guns.

[Embedded content]

Despite all the NRA efforts, the actual ownership among all Americans has declined. Sales continue to climb so more guns are flowing to fewer people.

And why are those people buying guns? It’s not for hunting or sport. It’s because they claim they’re worried about crime and want to protect themselves, even though crime has dropped to historically low levels.

legally own firearms?

There are a lot of guns out there that are not documented. I really, really question these numbers.

170

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:06:36pm

re: #165 Birth Control Works

I think that is a not a valid idea. If so, there would be much, much more evidence —health problems, children born with deficiencies.

We know for a fact that gun people are getting lead poisoning that effects their minds. Why are you so resistant to the concept? Lead is a neurotoxin. Playing with it is about as smart as playing with mercury.

171

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:06:53pm

re: #168 teleskiguy

tXgZKFCtLj0Qdx1CaP8WFey6aE4nvybzCz7FgTkAEFg=

172

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:07:44pm

re: #170 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

We know for a fact that gun people are getting lead poisoning that effects their minds. Why are you so resistant to the concept? Lead is a neurotoxin. Playing with it is about as smart as playing with mercury.

I need links for this.

173

Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines Oct 4, 2017 • 6:07:45pm

re: #142 HappyWarrior

Do you guys think there’s anything to the theory that the lead leads to psychological issue and a compulsive to want more and more? I don’t know. Maybe it’s my upbringing but I’d be off put by someone who wanted to have that many guns.

A serious history buff or collector would easily have forty or fifty guns but many of them would be non-functional in intent if not in fact.
That many functional guns, intended for use, is bizarre but it is not unusual at all among the 3%ers.
Some gun humpers pride themselves on having a gun for every occasion. They will have not just a concealable pistol, for example, but a different one for different venues, styles of dress and times of the year. One for concerts, one for the beach, one for driving in town, another for long trips, etc. They will have rifles for every type of game, including some not found on this continent and that the owner has never seen, and a different one for each type of combat scenario, as though they could run to their gun room and make just the right selection when the SHTF.

174

Backwoods_Sleuth Oct 4, 2017 • 6:08:10pm

re: #161 Birth Control Works

lead is inert —no?

Then why is it a problem in Flint, Michigan, drinking water?

175

William Lewis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:09:12pm

re: #168 teleskiguy

VGGRnOugXfNh89T2T8xkaPYQ4v9evGbD

176

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:09:31pm

re: #172 Birth Control Works

I need links for this.

nbcnews.com

thetrace.org

ehjournal.biomedcentral.com[no phone numbers allowed]-0

projects.seattletimes.com

Is that enough?

177

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:09:35pm

re: #174 Backwoods_Sleuth

Then why is it a problem in Flint, Michigan, drinking water?

again, I need links.

If the lead at gun ranges idea were valid, most of Indiana would be insane. (not that that can’t be argued) As well as military and law enforcment.

give me links.

178

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:10:01pm

re: #174 Backwoods_Sleuth

Then why is it a problem in Flint, Michigan, drinking water?

Because it’s a neurotoxin! Lead messes people up badly.

179

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:11:03pm

re: #176 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

nbcnews.com

thetrace.org

ehjournal.biomedcentral.com[no phone numbers allowed]-0

projects.seattletimes.com

Is that enough?

The best link got blocked by the filter. Just google lead poisoning gun ranges.

180

Backwoods_Sleuth Oct 4, 2017 • 6:11:15pm

JUST IN: All 5 living former U.S. presidents to attend concert benefiting hurricane relief efforts on Oct. 21 at Texas A&M arena. pic.twitter.com/DnnI2fenIK

— ABC News (@ABC) October 4, 2017

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181

Backwoods_Sleuth Oct 4, 2017 • 6:11:39pm

Why would Trump be upset if Secretary of State Rex Tillerson called him a moron ?

You’d think he’d be grateful for the upgrade

— John Cleese (@JohnCleese) October 4, 2017

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182

Backwoods_Sleuth Oct 4, 2017 • 6:13:36pm

JFC, this is just pathetic now

On behalf of a GRATEFUL NATION, THANK YOU to all of the First Responders (HEROES) who saved countless lives in Las Vegas on Sunday night. pic.twitter.com/ZxuMYWnNHv

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 5, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote Retweet Video

183

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:14:03pm

re: #177 Birth Control Works

again, I need links.

If the lead at gun ranges idea were valid, most of Indiana would be insane. (not that that can’t be argued) As well as military and law enforcment.

give me links.

It makes people stupid, and sometimes angry, not insane. It would be hard to argue that Indiana doesn’t have a stupidity problem.

184

lawhawk Oct 4, 2017 • 6:14:21pm

re: #172 Birth Control Works

There have been gun ranges that have been shut down or forced to do remediation because of lead contamination that would be a threat to public health.

185

Backwoods_Sleuth Oct 4, 2017 • 6:15:13pm

NBC’s report on Tillerson calling him a “moron” sent Trump into a “fury,” my colleagues report —> https://t.co/K38pYqFEvg

— Blake Hounshell (@blakehounshell) October 4, 2017

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My question: Just how many of Trump’s own cabinet members and top officials think he is a “moron,” whether they’ve said it aloud or not? Hmm https://t.co/pnLcTUkKzq

— Preet Bharara (@PreetBharara) October 4, 2017

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186

EPR-radar Oct 4, 2017 • 6:15:16pm

I can’t speak to the details of lead poisoning on gun ranges, but chemically lead is not inert the way gold is. Gold is as toxic as any other heavy metal if it actually gets into the body, but that’s very hard to do incidentally. Even eating small flakes of gold will just give you gold flakes out the other end in due course.

Meanwhile, lead is much easier to get into the body. Eating lead flakes would be an exceedingly bad idea. Lead fumes, dust etc. are all dangerous.

187

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:15:52pm

re: #176 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

nbcnews.com

thetrace.org

ehjournal.biomedcentral.com[no phone numbers allowed]-0

projects.seattletimes.com

Is that enough?

Thank you.

It’s seems to be a ventilation problem. I understand people don’t understand the risks and allow children to play on lead contaminated soil and be present in poorly vented ranges.

Safe handling of ammunition and shooting in well ventilated range would be the reason law enforcement and the military and most of shooters I know have not been damaged.

In other words, guns do not automatically lead to lead poisoning.

AND< yes, it is BIG issue. I agree

188

Mike Lamb Oct 4, 2017 • 6:16:03pm

It’s adorable that Tillerson, Mnuchin, and Mattis think that Trump wouldn’t fire all of them.

189

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:16:14pm

re: #185 Backwoods_Sleuth

Everyone here knew that was happening behind closed doors.

190

TedStriker Oct 4, 2017 • 6:16:14pm

re: #161 Birth Control Works

lead is inert —no?

Hell no…

re: #177 Birth Control Works

again, I need links.

If the lead at gun ranges idea were valid, most of Indiana would be insane. (not that that can’t be argued) As well as military and law enforcment.

give me links.

We have accepted that lead in paint, in water pipes, and in gasoline are very bad things and legislated it out of those products, because lead is cumulatively neurotoxic when ingested or inhaled, but it’s suddenly a huge leap of logic to suggest that shooters who spend a lot of time at the range or otherwise exposed to lead dust as part of their (a)vocation might not be affected adversely?

191

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:17:00pm

re: #184 lawhawk

Thank you

192

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:17:01pm

re: #188 Mike Lamb

It’s adorable that Tillerson, Mnuchin, and Mattis think that Trump wouldn’t fire all of them.

The hope is that it would discredit Trump, forcing Congress to act, but the problem with that is that fools control Congress.

193

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:17:40pm

re: #183 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

It makes people stupid, and sometimes angry, not insane. It would be hard to argue that Indiana doesn’t have a stupidity problem.

and some of the best universities in the would. Not that residents attend them.

/sort of

194

Mike Lamb Oct 4, 2017 • 6:18:57pm

re: #192 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

The hope is that it would discredit Trump, forcing Congress to act, but the problem with that is that fools control Congress.

Every Republican would say that they serve at the leisure of the president.

195

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:20:10pm

re: #187 Birth Control Works

Thank you.

It’s seems to be a ventilation problem. I understand people don’t understand the risks and allow children to play on lead contaminated soil and be present in poorly vented ranges.

Safe handling of ammunition and shooting in well ventilated range would be the reason law enforcement and the military and most of shooters I know have not been damaged.

In other words, guns do not automatically lead to lead poisoning.

AND< yes, it is BIG issue. I agree

Of course guns don’t automatically lead to lead poisoning, but some gun people set up ranges in their yards and basements contaminating their homes, and a lot of ranges at gun stores are poorly-ventilated, especially the ones that charge less to shoot.

A lot of stupid people with guns probably started that way, but the lead is making some of them stupid.

196

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:20:23pm

re: #71 Ace Rothstein

Gov. Reagan was all about gun control after blacks showed up at the state house legally with shotguns.

The concept of Gun Control (in this country) took hold after the Civil War.

197

stpaulbear Oct 4, 2017 • 6:20:56pm

re: #142 HappyWarrior

Do you guys think there’s anything to the theory that the lead leads to psychological issue and a compulsive to want more and more? I don’t know. Maybe it’s my upbringing but I’d be off put by someone who wanted to have that many guns.

I know that vinyl affects me that way…

198

b.d. (bill d.) Oct 4, 2017 • 6:23:33pm

lol, this should be just fine.

MUST SEE: Stadium in Russia, in order to be compliant for the 2018 World Cup, has, um, added more seats. pic.twitter.com/7aT69bU3rP

— Darren Rovell (@darrenrovell) October 4, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote Images

199

Backwoods_Sleuth Oct 4, 2017 • 6:23:56pm

WE LOVE YOU LAS VEGAS! pic.twitter.com/nxRWeR1gEz

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 4, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote Retweet Video

of course I find this tasteless, US just suffered worst mass shooting in history. he won’t say “guns,” and releases video abt HIM https://t.co/GdAMTTEpht

— Eric Boehlert (@EricBoehlert) October 5, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

200

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:23:59pm

re: #195 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Of course guns don’t automatically lead to lead poisoning, but some gun people set up ranges in their yards and basements contaminating their homes, and a lot of ranges at gun stores are poorly-ventilated, especially the ones that charge less to shoot.

A lot of stupid people with guns probably started that way, but the lead is making some of them stupid.

Ok, glad we can agree on this. I’m a bit senisitve to knee-jerk conclusions lately.

Education is the key, as always. I’ve been around firearms and shooters all my life, and have never heard about such lead poisoning. I bet there are a lot of others like me.

Thanks for the knowledge.

201

FormerDirtDart Oct 4, 2017 • 6:24:33pm

re: #184 lawhawk

There have been gun ranges that have been shut down or forced to do remediation because of lead contamination that would be a threat to public health.

The US Army program to produce a “Green” (lead free) bullet for M16 based weapons morphed into the development of ammunition that provides better performance than previous ammunition.

202

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:24:36pm

re: #197 stpaulbear

I know that vinyl affects me that way…

diamonds and other sparkly things. Definitely, makes my waist slimmer and my butt firmer!

203

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:25:43pm

All links provided have been shared thru my social media.

204

wheat-dogg Oct 4, 2017 • 6:25:46pm

re: #168 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

CtX6wN1poFwYoc5Cc+tGMo7cRpMMS1XgVC1hZJpvPK8pQD62dpaHtjb8Em9xg8pf

205

TedStriker Oct 4, 2017 • 6:25:54pm

re: #202 Birth Control Works

diamonds and other sparkly things. Definitely, makes my waist slimmer and my butt firmer!

BAM!

206

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:26:12pm

re: #200 Birth Control Works

Ok, glad we can agree on this. I’m a bit senisitve to knee-jerk conclusions lately.

Education is the key, as always. I’ve been around firearms and shooters all my life, and have never heard about such lead poisoning. I bet there are a lot of others like me.

Thanks for the knowledge.

Unfortunately I have a friend who is not the same due to years of shooting. He’ll probably wind up shooting himself at some point.

207

EPR-radar Oct 4, 2017 • 6:27:14pm

On another board I’ve been playing with an exceptionally dim-witted second amendment absolutist. The funniest part so far is argument by line break, which I’ve never seen before:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,
shall not be infringed.

Apparently that first line break means the militia language is completely irrelevant. SMH.

208

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:27:39pm

re: #206 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Unfortunately I have a friend who is not the same due to years of shooting. He’ll probably wind up shooting himself at some point.

So sorry to hear this.

I know that gun ranges have occasionally allowed the lead in their ground to be reclaimed and have profited greatly from it.

That is probably the total extent of my knowledge about lead until today.

209

Backwoods_Sleuth Oct 4, 2017 • 6:29:06pm

*blink*

Man arrested for threatening to kill African Americans at Howard U.: ‘Afterall, it’s not murder if they’re black’ https://t.co/gmiyRdgNRp pic.twitter.com/PvwIU9lpca

— ABC 7 News - WJLA (@ABC7News) October 4, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote Image

210

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 6:30:02pm

It’d help to study the lead issue which is exactly why the NRA via their proxies in Congress obstructing is upsetting. It’s no different than how asbestos was denied for years in causing cancer or tobacco’s role.

211

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 6:30:42pm

re: #209 Backwoods_Sleuth

*blink*

[Embedded content]

JFC.

212

Charles Johnson Oct 4, 2017 • 6:31:24pm

This presidency is a complete goddamned nightmare on every level.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) October 5, 2017

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And now we have some more grandstanding over mass murder by this pathetic narcissist, with canned soundtrack. https://t.co/xxKcC6ZCcp

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) October 5, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

213

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:33:30pm

re: #207 EPR-radar

On another board I’ve been playing with an exceptionally dim-witted second amendment absolutist. The funniest part so far is argument by line break, which I’ve never seen before:

Apparently that first line break means the militia language is completely irrelevant. SMH.

Actually, such militias are part of the plan if the shit-hits-the-fan in this country. Those with certain civilian training and certification can be called-on by law enforcement when needed.

I feel strongly about the right to self-defense. As of now, the 2nd amendment is all we have to codify that it as a Constitutional Right.

With our history of slavery and the history of slavery around the world, it is a very important amendment.

Unless we want to add another to the Constitution, perhaps better worded, The 2nd amendment is all we have.

My choice:

“All persons have the right to defend their body. the bodies of others and certain property from imminent danger by whatever means possible”

Meaning, if I defend myself from a rapist with ANY object, it is my right to do so. I do not believe a free person should be prosecuted for using an “illegal weapon” to defend one’s own body.

214

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:33:53pm

re: #209 Backwoods_Sleuth

*blink*

[Embedded content]

So humans are more equal than others

215

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 6:34:52pm

salon.com
Inholfe’s hot take on the shooting. “Sanctuary cities are at fault.” The guy was American born, wtf.

216

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:35:23pm

re: #210 HappyWarrior

It’d help to study the lead issue which is exactly why the NRA via their proxies in Congress obstructing is upsetting. It’s no different than how asbestos was denied for years in causing cancer or tobacco’s role.

I had a friend who was an asbestos litigator. Told me to read the book Outrageous Misconduct. Another well-documented case of the short-sightedness of greed.

217

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:36:24pm

re: #207 EPR-radar

On another board I’ve been playing with an exceptionally dim-witted second amendment absolutist. The funniest part so far is argument by line break, which I’ve never seen before:

Apparently that first line break means the militia language is completely irrelevant. SMH.

I tried to see if only the 1st line break is in the Constitution, but I can’t read this thing on my display.
Image: bor.jpg

218

goddamnedfrank Oct 4, 2017 • 6:36:48pm

re: #117 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

They should target his brand since that’s how he immediately gets so many followers with every new account. I’d auto flag every account that has that avi and/or Micro (with or w/out ™️) in the handle.

Of course I’d also suspend everyone who follows these and other neo-Nazi accounts just to clean up Twitter. Just let everyone know that following serial abusers means supporting them, rewarding them, and being complicit in their racist abuse.

219

dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸ Oct 4, 2017 • 6:37:11pm

i think i heard where old j p sartre said it is the duty of an existentialist to live a moral life in a chaotic and meaningless universe

some weeks are more chaotic and meaningless than others

220

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 6:37:16pm

re: #216 Birth Control Works

I had a friend who was an asbestos litigator. Told me to read the book Outrageous Misconduct. Another well-documented case of the short-sightedness of greed.

Right, my point is that people obstructed investigations into whether asbestos caused cancer. We shouldn’t be letting the gun lobby hold us hostage as we try to research guns. I’m all for self defense but I’m also for reason too. This guy and honestly no one needs that amount of weapons for self defense. You buy that amount of weapons for one reason only and that’s for what he did.

221

EPR-radar Oct 4, 2017 • 6:37:25pm

re: #217 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

I tried to see if only the 1st line break is in the Constitution, but I can’t read this thing on my display.
Image: bor.jpg

Oh this meathead provided his own line breaks, one at each comma.

To be fair, the reasoning in Heller wasn’t much better.

222

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:37:33pm

re: #209 Backwoods_Sleuth

*blink*

[Embedded content]

Now I’m hungry for pizza.

223

Charles Johnson Oct 4, 2017 • 6:37:44pm

Trump is just going through the motions, trying to imitate what he thinks a president should sound like, and failing massively.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) October 5, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

224

wheat-dogg Oct 4, 2017 • 6:38:16pm

re: #200 Birth Control Works

Ok, glad we can agree on this. I’m a bit senisitve to knee-jerk conclusions lately.

Education is the key, as always. I’ve been around firearms and shooters all my life, and have never heard about such lead poisoning. I bet there are a lot of others like me.

Thanks for the knowledge.

Lead toxicity is why household paint and gasoline no longer have lead compounds as ingredients. Metallic lead reacts with air, forming a non-reactive layer on exposed surfaces, but lead salts are easily absorbed by the body and can accumulate over time if exposure is continual. They interfere with enzyme functions and damage neurons in the brain and elsewhere.

Lead paint was abolished after researchers discovered children would eat lead paint peeling off walls, which apparently had a sweet taste. Tetraethyl lead in gasoline was banned some years later.

225

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:39:50pm

re: #221 EPR-radar

Oh this meathead provided his own line breaks, one at each comma.

Then he’s separated “shall not be infringed” from the second line, and it’s OK to infringe.

226

dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸ Oct 4, 2017 • 6:39:58pm

re: #207 EPR-radar

On another board I’ve been playing with an exceptionally dim-witted second amendment absolutist. The funniest part so far is argument by line break, which I’ve never seen before:

Apparently that first line break means the militia language is completely irrelevant. SMH.

it depends on whether the founding fathers used ascii or ebcdic

227

EPR-radar Oct 4, 2017 • 6:40:30pm

re: #224 wheat-dogg

Lead toxicity is why household paint and gasoline no longer have lead compounds as ingredients. Metallic lead reacts with air, forming a non-reactive layer on exposed surfaces, but lead salts are easily absorbed by the body and can accumulate over time if exposure is continual. They interfere with enzyme functions and damage neurons in the brain and elsewhere.

Lead paint was abolished after researchers discovered children would eat lead paint peeling off walls, which apparently had a sweet taste. Tetraethyl lead in gasoline was banned some years later.

I’ve seen suggestions that the reduction of environmental lead may be responsible for the long term decrease in US crime rates. IIRC the times match up pretty closely to when these lead products started disappearing, but of course correlation is not causation.

228

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:40:39pm

re: #224 wheat-dogg

Lead toxicity is why household paint and gasoline no longer have lead compounds as ingredients. Metallic lead reacts with air, forming a non-reactive layer on exposed surfaces, but lead salts are easily absorbed by the body and can accumulate over time if exposure is continual. They interfere with enzyme functions and damage neurons in the brain and elsewhere.

Lead paint was abolished after researchers discovered children would eat lead paint peeling off walls, which apparently had a sweet taste. Tetraethyl lead in gasoline was banned some years later.

Yes, I know all this, but had never heard of it related to gun ranges. Obama removed the injunction against gun research—no?

This was a good thing. The NRA can go to hell

229

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:41:27pm

re: #227 EPR-radar

I’ve seen suggestions that the reduction of environmental lead may be responsible for the long term decrease in US crime rates. IIRC the times match up pretty closely to when these lead products started disappearing, but of course correlation is not causation.

There’s always the Rome theory.

Lead in the aqueducts and pitchers would explain much

230

FormerDirtDart Oct 4, 2017 • 6:41:31pm

re: #222 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Now I’m hungry for pizza.

took me a second or three…

231

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 6:41:56pm

re: #227 EPR-radar

I’ve seen suggestions that the reduction of environmental lead may be responsible for the long term decrease in US crime rates. IIRC the times match up pretty closely to when these lead products started disappearing, but of course correlation is not causation.

I’ve heard others suggest that the crime rate reduction may also be related to the Roe decision but again as you say correlation isn’t causation. That’s why we need studies.

232

TedStriker Oct 4, 2017 • 6:42:43pm

re: #228 Birth Control Works

Yes, I know all this, but had never heard of it related to gun ranges. Obama removed the injunction against gun research—no?

This was a good thing. The NRA can go to hell

If he did, I guarantee the GOPers blanked it out of NIH’s budget; as a matter of fact, I think they did do something like that.

233

dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸ Oct 4, 2017 • 6:43:13pm

re: #213 Birth Control Works

Actually, such militias are part of the plan if the shit-hits-the-fan in this country. Those with certain civilian training and certification can be called-on by law enforcement when needed.

I feel strongly about the right to self-defense. As of now, the 2nd amendment is all we have to codify that it as a Constitutional Right.

With our history of slavery and the history of slavery around the world, it is a very important amendment.

Unless we want to add another to the Constitution, perhaps better worded, The 2nd amendment is all we have.

My choice:

“All persons have the right to defend their body. the bodies of others and certain property from imminent danger by whatever means possible”

Meaning, if I defend myself from a rapist with ANY object, it is my right to do so. I do not believe a free person should be prosecuted for using an “illegal weapon” to defend one’s own body.

does the second amendment cover hogtie-ing rapists and tattooing “i rape women” on their chest?

234

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:43:42pm

re: #231 HappyWarrior

I’ve heard others suggest that the crime rate reduction may also be related to the Roe decision but again as you say correlation isn’t causation. That’s why we need studies.

I personal belief is that most of our current problems are caused by overpopulation.

Unplanned and out-of-control breeding causes misery. It doesn’t matter what species.

235

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 6:43:48pm

re: #232 TedStriker

If he did, I guarantee the GOPers blanked it out of NIH’s budget; as a matter of fact, I think they did do something like that.

I thought it was CDC that was doing it not NIH. I’ll have to ask though. I know a couple people who work for NIH.

236

FormerDirtDart Oct 4, 2017 • 6:44:21pm

Maybe part of his escape plan?

BREAKING … Las Vegas Strip shooter targeted aviation fuel tanks, source says #RJnow … https://t.co/snEuDS4mTg via @reviewjournal

— Jeff German (@JGermanRJ) October 5, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

237

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 6:44:42pm

re: #234 Birth Control Works

I personal belief is that most of our current problems are caused by overpopulation.

Unplanned and out-of-control breeding causes misery. It doesn’t matter what species.

Which is why we do need better education on sex ed as I know you agree.

238

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:45:02pm

re: #233 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

does the second amendment cover hogtie-ing rapists and tattooing “i rape women” on their chest?

A crafty lawyer can make it mean anything.

I repeat again:

239

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 6:45:02pm

re: #236 FormerDirtDart

Maybe part of his escape plan?

[Embedded content]

Jesus. What the hell made this guy plan this?

240

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:45:13pm

re: #227 EPR-radar

I’ve seen suggestions that the reduction of environmental lead may be responsible for the long term decrease in US crime rates. IIRC the times match up pretty closely to when these lead products started disappearing, but of course correlation is not causation.

I hoped Gen Y and the Millennials would be better than those of us exposed to lead fumes as young children, but nope. We got the alt-right and Pepe, instead of intelligent, compassionate people.

241

wheat-dogg Oct 4, 2017 • 6:46:12pm

re: #227 EPR-radar

I’ve seen suggestions that the reduction of environmental lead may be responsible for the long term decrease in US crime rates. IIRC the times match up pretty closely to when these lead products started disappearing, but of course correlation is not causation.

The results are not conclusive, so more likely an example of correlation.

re: #228 Birth Control Works

Lead is basically bad stuff if exposure is constant, just like mercury exposure. Someone who shoots only occasionally, like for deer hunting or skeet shooting, is not in particular danger. But a regular shooter (or worker) in an inside shooting range would be in greater danger.

Likewise, handling a blob of metallic mercury in the palm of your hand for a few minutes would not poison you. Using mercury compounds on a regular basis — as hatmakers did in the 1800s — would be a whole ‘nother story.

242

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 6:46:27pm

re: #240 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

I hoped Gen Y and the Millennials would be better than those of us exposed to lead fumes as young children, but nope. We got the alt-right and Pepe, instead of intelligent, compassionate people.

I’m so disappointed with how many white supremacists there are in my generation. Glad that none of them are among my family, quite the opposite actually especially with my closest brother in age.

243

Charles Johnson Oct 4, 2017 • 6:47:00pm

Only one spammer attempt today. Maybe this particular gang is starting to realize they’re not going to win at LGF.

244

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:47:23pm

re: #234 Birth Control Works

I personal belief is that most of our current problems are caused by overpopulation.

Unplanned and out-of-control breeding causes misery. It doesn’t matter what species.

Hence your user-name. I don’t think it’s just a personal belief, like religion. I’m pretty sure it’s an objective fact that over-population destroys quality of life.

245

EPR-radar Oct 4, 2017 • 6:47:25pm

re: #236 FormerDirtDart

So that explains the second window that was taken out at the shooting location. This motherfucker wanted to set off jet fuel explosions.

246

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:48:11pm

re: #237 HappyWarrior

Which is why we do need better education on sex ed as I know you agree.

There was a bad situation with deer in Wisconsin a few years (decades?) ago.

Hunters were called in to cull the herd. It made the front of the Chicago Tribune.

Hunters were quoted saying they cried because of the animals they euthanized. None was a “sporting” kill. Sick, malnourished, small for their age and many with a brain-eating disease (deer version of mad-cow).

This is were humanity is headed, I fear. The planet will maintain balance.

247

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:48:23pm

re: #243 Charles Johnson

I’d expect they’d take LGF off their list at some point. They want unmonitored blogs.

248

wheat-dogg Oct 4, 2017 • 6:49:02pm

re: #229 Birth Control Works

There’s always the Rome theory.

Lead in the aqueducts and pitchers would explain much

This hypothesis has now also been debunked, or at least cast into doubt. en.wikipedia.org

249

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 6:49:24pm

re: #244 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Hence your user-name. I don’t think it’s just a personal belief, like religion. I’m pretty sure it’s an objective fact that over-population destroys quality of life.

The science speaks to it. And honestly even though I’m descended from people who came from big families. Large families aren’t practical in a post-industrial world. I still believe of course in choice meaning I believe people should have the choice to have large families should they choose but birth control by no means should be discourage let alone criminalized or made hard to access.

250

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:49:33pm

re: #241 wheat-dogg

The results are not conclusive, so more likely an example of correlation.

Lead is basically bad stuff if exposure is constant, just like mercury exposure. Someone who shoots only occasionally, like for deer hunting or skeet shooting, is not in particular danger. But a regular shooter (or worker) in an inside shooting range would be in greater danger.

Likewise, handling a blob of metallic mercury in the palm of your hand for a few minutes would not poison you. Using mercury compounds on a regular basis — as hatmakers did in the 1800s — would be a whole ‘nother story.

ah!

as opposed to asbestos which can kill with one exposure 30 years in the past. Depending on your genetics.

251

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 6:50:05pm

re: #246 Birth Control Works

There was a bad situation with deer in Wisconsin a few years (decades?) ago.

Hunters were called in to cull the herd. It made the front of the Chicago Tribune.

Hunters were quoted saying they cried because of the animals they euthanized. None was a “sporting” kill. Sick, malnourished, small for their age and many with a brain-eating disease (deer version of mad-cow).

This is were humanity is headed, I fear. The plant will maintain balance.

Oh believe me, I know all about deer overpopulation here in NOVA.

252

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:50:12pm

re: #244 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Hence your user-name. I don’t think it’s just a personal belief, like religion. I’m pretty sure it’s an objective fact that over-population destroys quality of life.

Yeah, well, you think with your brain.

253

goddamnedfrank Oct 4, 2017 • 6:50:30pm

2017 is a trip.

Just saw Ari Melber & Michael Beschloss accurately drop their shared knowledge of Drake lyrics into a discussion of Trump admin dysfunction!

— Frankly My Dear 🏴‍☠️ (@goddamnedfrank) October 5, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

254

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:50:42pm

re: #248 wheat-dogg

This hypothesis has now also been debunked, or at least cast into doubt. en.wikipedia.org

I know, I just thought I’d throw it out there.

255

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:50:43pm

re: #241 wheat-dogg

The results are not conclusive, so more likely an example of correlation.

Lead is basically bad stuff if exposure is constant, just like mercury exposure. Someone who shoots only occasionally, like for deer hunting or skeet shooting, is not in particular danger. But a regular shooter (or worker) in an inside shooting range would be in greater danger.

Likewise, handling a blob of metallic mercury in the palm of your hand for a few minutes would not poison you. Using mercury compounds on a regular basis — as hatmakers did in the 1800s — would be a whole ‘nother story.

Unless you drop it on the carpet, then it’s time for hazmat decontamination. That’s why we can’t handle mercury anymore.

256

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 6:51:05pm

re: #253 goddamnedfrank

2017 is a trip.

[Embedded content]

I need to quit drinking paint. //

257

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:51:16pm

re: #249 HappyWarrior

The science speaks to it. And honestly even though I’m descended from people who came from big families. Large families aren’t practical in a post-industrial world. I still believe of course in choice meaning I believe people should have the choice to have large families should they choose but birth control by no means should be discourage let alone criminalized or made hard to access.

and birth control does not prevent large families. It just ensures that mother is healthy enough to raise all her children.

258

TedStriker Oct 4, 2017 • 6:51:34pm

re: #250 Birth Control Works

ah!

as opposed to asbestos which can kill with one exposure 30 years in the past. Depending on your genetics.

Steve McQueen would probably agree with you.

259

EPR-radar Oct 4, 2017 • 6:51:55pm

re: #241 wheat-dogg

The results are not conclusive, so more likely an example of correlation.

Lead is basically bad stuff if exposure is constant, just like mercury exposure. Someone who shoots only occasionally, like for deer hunting or skeet shooting, is not in particular danger. But a regular shooter (or worker) in an inside shooting range would be in greater danger.

Likewise, handling a blob of metallic mercury in the palm of your hand for a few minutes would not poison you. Using mercury compounds on a regular basis — as hatmakers did in the 1800s — would be a whole ‘nother story.

A broken mercury thermometer in someone’s home would typically send blobs of liquid mercury to very inaccessible places where they would emit fumes over time. Low level exposure, but still nasty.

260

Charles Johnson Oct 4, 2017 • 6:52:10pm

Trump is just going through the motions, trying to imitate what he thinks a president should sound like, and failing massively.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) October 5, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

All of the Trumps are like space aliens trying to act like humans but never quite getting it right. https://t.co/DQoqeQoJMh

— Bob Cesca (@bobcesca_go) October 5, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

261

wheat-dogg Oct 4, 2017 • 6:52:28pm

re: #250 Birth Control Works

ah!

as opposed to asbestos which can kill with one exposure 30 years in the past. Depending on your genetics.

It’s why there is a Mad Hatter in Alice in Wonderland. Hatters had the reputation of acting “mad” — erratic behavior, tremors, etc. — which resulted from the mercury compounds used to make fur felt hats.

262

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:52:33pm

re: #259 EPR-radar

A broken mercury thermometer in someone’s home would typically send blobs of liquid mercury to very inaccessible places where they would emit fumes over time. Low level exposure, but still nasty.

that is why few of us have mercury thermometers any more.

the electronic gadgets are so much more kewl!

263

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 6:52:49pm

re: #257 Birth Control Works

and birth control does not prevent large families. It just ensures that mother is healthy enough to raise all her children.

Certainly that as well. Ultimately I believe in choice. I’m not going to judge a couple if they decide to have no children and I don’t really judge families with large amounts of children.

264

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:52:55pm

re: #261 wheat-dogg

It’s why there is a Mad Hatter in Alice in Wonderland. Hatters had the reputation of acting “mad” — erratic behavior, tremors, etc. — which resulted from the mercury compounds used to make fur felt hats.

I love such trivia

265

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:53:50pm

re: #260 Charles Johnson

Maybe the right-wing conspiracy-nuts were projecting when talking about reptilian overlords. ;> They always project.

— Jeff Furlington (@FurlingtonJeff) October 5, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

266

TedStriker Oct 4, 2017 • 6:53:57pm

re: #260 Charles Johnson

I blame Kang and Kodos…

267

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:54:33pm

re: #263 HappyWarrior

Certainly that as well. Ultimately I believe in choice. I’m not going to judge a couple if they decide to have no children and I don’t really judge families with large amounts of children.

I’ve met a few I would like to judge.

Poor quality of life and limited opportunities for the children. Often mistreated by older siblings because mother is to busy or tired to oversee everything.

These are the religious types of large families.

268

whitebeach Oct 4, 2017 • 6:54:48pm

re: #213 Birth Control Works

My choice:

“All persons have the right to defend their body. the bodies of others and certain property from imminent danger by whatever means possible”

Meaning, if I defend myself from a rapist with ANY object, it is my right to do so. I do not believe a free person should be prosecuted for using an “illegal weapon” to defend one’s own body.

I usually like your thinking, but the amendment you propose is so vague as to be maybe even less clear than the current one. What is “certain property”? What is “imminent danger”? (Isn’t this more or less the defense that gets every cop who’s gunned down an unarmed suspect off the legal hook?) And then there’s “by whatever means possible.” A flamethrower? Nerve gas?

As for using an “illegal weapon” to defend one’s own body, this was pretty much the defense of Bernie Goetz, who shot four young men in the NYC subway, claiming that he was in bodily fear of them. He was acquitted of the manslaughter charges, but he went to prison for the illegal handgun. So are you saying you’d carry an illegal weapon regardless, just in case?

Don’t misunderstand me. Self-defense is a right going back into the mists of the common law. But what implements are you allowed to possess in anticipation of defending yourself?

269

wheat-dogg Oct 4, 2017 • 6:54:53pm

re: #255 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Unless you drop it on the carpet, then it’s time for hazmat decontamination. That’s why we can’t handle mercury anymore.

Exactly. We science teachers had to eliminate mercury thermometers from our labs, and had to stop allowing students to handle mercury for that reason. Drop a blob of mercury on the floor, and you’ve got gajillions of teeny tiny mercury drops to worry about.

270

Quoth the raven, Covfefe. Oct 4, 2017 • 6:55:34pm

Evening, beautiful lizard-people. How go things among the Lizardim this cold, clear fall night?

271

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:55:59pm

re: #262 Birth Control Works

that is why few of us have mercury thermometers any more.

the electronic gadgets are so much more kewl!

It’s true. Stick a thing in your ear for a second until it beeps, rather than holding something uncomfortable under your tongue, or worse, the dreaded rectal thermometer for babies.

272

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 6:56:48pm

re: #267 Birth Control Works

I’ve met a few I would like to judge.

Poor quality of life and limited opportunities for the children. Often mistreated by older siblings because mother is to busy or tired to oversee everything.

These are the religious types of large families.

True, true. In the case of the Duggars, I certainly do judge because the younger daughters are forced in positions of caregivers at young ages when they should be developing on their own.

273

whitebeach Oct 4, 2017 • 6:57:18pm

re: #233 dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸

does the second amendment cover hogtie-ing rapists and tattooing “i rape women” on their chest?

Lisbeth Salander is one of the most wonderful heroines in modern literature or film.

274

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 6:57:25pm

re: #267 Birth Control Works

I’ve met a few I would like to judge.

Poor quality of life and limited opportunities for the children. Often mistreated by older siblings because mother is to busy or tired to oversee everything.

These are the religious types of large families.

Cough*Duggars*cough.

275

Ace Rothstein Oct 4, 2017 • 6:57:52pm

So what happens to the room or the 32nd floor of Mandalay Bay? I can’t imagine they would want a constant stream of drunk idiots taking pictures next to the door and posting it all over Facebook every two seconds.

276

FormerDirtDart Oct 4, 2017 • 6:57:58pm

It’ll never pass.
The “or functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semiautomatic rifle but not convert the semiautomatic rifle into a machinegun” is to vague. There are to many minor parts modifications that slightly alter the rate of fire of rifles that are far from making them more like a machine gun.

NEW: Just introduced my bill to prohibit the sale of bump stocks, which turn semi-automatic rifles into the equivalent of machine guns. pic.twitter.com/GfmK12PDo8

— David Cicilline (@davidcicilline) October 4, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote Images

UPDATE: Automatic Gunfire Prevention Act now has more than 140 co-sponsors. Onward! https://t.co/jjtHX5YwYf

— David Cicilline (@davidcicilline) October 5, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

277

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:58:07pm

re: #268 whitebeach

I usually like your thinking, but the amendment you propose is so vague as to be maybe even less clear than the current one. What is “certain property”? What is “imminent danger”? (Isn’t this more or less the defense that gets every cop who’s gunned down an unarmed suspect off the legal hook?) And then there’s “by whatever means possible.” A flamethrower? Nerve gas?

As for using an “illegal weapon” to defend one’s own body, this was pretty much the defense of Bernie Goetz, who shot four young men in the NYC subway, claiming that he was in bodily fear of them. He was acquitted of the manslaughter charges, but he went to prison for the illegal handgun. So are you saying you’d carry an illegal weapon regardless, just in case?

Don’t misunderstand me. Self-defense is a right going back into the mists of the common law. But what implements are you allowed to possess in anticipation of defending yourself?

I want my Star Trek Phaser sent to the civilian setting of “stun.”

There is also some gray area in the concept of rape. Defending one’s body is not the same thing as defending one’s life.

You are correct in all your challenges. It’s the best I can come up with. Obviously inadequate. A lot would have to be defined by the courts.

My point is that the 2nd Amendment is all we have —unless someone proposes another amendment.

278

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 6:59:05pm

re: #273 whitebeach

Lisbeth Salander is one of the most wonderful heroines in modern literature or film.

OMG! I loved her!

279

wheat-dogg Oct 4, 2017 • 6:59:25pm

re: #264 Birth Control Works

I love such trivia

I learned about that tidbit in a book I used to have, entitled “The Annotated Alice.” It covered all the little details that Victorian readers would probably have understood, but modern readers can’t.

280

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 7:00:09pm

re: #266 TedStriker

I blame Kang and Kodos…

281

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 7:01:23pm

re: #279 wheat-dogg

I learned about that tidbit in a book I used to have, entitled “The Annotated Alice.” It covered all the little details that Victorian readers would probably have understood, but modern readers can’t.

not on audio —in my Amazon queue

282

TedStriker Oct 4, 2017 • 7:01:40pm

re: #275 Ace Rothstein

So what happens to the room or the 32nd floor of Mandalay Bay? I can’t imagine they would want a constant stream of drunk idiots taking pictures next to the door and posting it all over Facebook every two seconds.

If they’re respectful, hotel management should just wall the room off.

283

EPR-radar Oct 4, 2017 • 7:02:22pm

Oh my. The first 2A meathead I’ve been playing with has been joined by one who may be even stupider. Behold:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

That is worded the way it is because of things that happened prior to the constitution being written. It probably would be more accurate to look at it as giving the people a way to defend themselves from militias instead of forming militias.

284

prairiefire Oct 4, 2017 • 7:02:45pm

re: #253 goddamnedfrank

That’s happening.

285

wheat-dogg Oct 4, 2017 • 7:03:06pm

re: #278 Birth Control Works

OMG! I loved her!

Since Steig Larsson’s death, another writer has continued the series of “The Girl Who …” . I considering buying it for my Kindle.

286

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 7:03:26pm

re: #283 EPR-radar

Oh my. The first 2A meathead I’ve been playing with has been joined by one who may be even stupider. Behold:

There is a lot of pre-revolutionary history of which isn’t taught.

King George embargoed gun-power to keep the “colonies” in line, for example.

287

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 7:03:48pm

re: #285 wheat-dogg

Since Steig Larsson’s death, another writer has continued the series of “The Girl Who …” . I considering buying it for my Kindle.

yeah, in my queue as well

288

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 7:04:37pm

re: #282 TedStriker

If they’re respectful, hotel management should just wall the room off.

spurning many, many short horror stories about the walled off guest room in Las Vegas …

289

Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis Oct 4, 2017 • 7:05:52pm

re: #282 TedStriker

If they’re respectful, hotel management should just wall the room off.

It would be more likely that they renumber the room.

290

EPR-radar Oct 4, 2017 • 7:06:27pm

re: #286 Birth Control Works

There is a lot of pre-revolutionary history of which isn’t taught.

King George embargoed gun-power to keep the “colonies” in line, for example.

But this business of RKBA to defend vs. militias is batshit insane.

291

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 7:06:40pm

Republicans Open to Banning ‘Bump Stocks’ Used in Massacre https://t.co/knn8FPZe1D

— ggt (@geegeetee) October 5, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote

292

dangerman Oct 4, 2017 • 7:07:23pm

re: #270 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

Evening, beautiful lizard-people. How go things among the Lizardim this cold, clear fall night?

10pm, 82 degrees

293

Ace Rothstein Oct 4, 2017 • 7:07:47pm

re: #291 Birth Control Works

Breitbart with spirited defense of bump stock device used to slaughter 59 people. Made for “fun of mimicking automatic fire.” pic.twitter.com/h1DdnrQ6DW

— Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) October 4, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote Image

294

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 7:07:55pm

re: #291 Birth Control Works

[Embedded content]

That’s surprisingly refreshing. I’ll believe it when I see it though.

295

wheat-dogg Oct 4, 2017 • 7:08:16pm

re: #283 EPR-radar

Oh my. The first 2A meathead I’ve been playing with has been joined by one who may be even stupider. Behold:

My ggggfather was in the NJ militia during the Revolutionary War. He served a total of 18 months, got a small pension for his service. His brother and brother-in-law, though, served in the Continental Army and they got land grants in the Northwest Ordinance, to which they migrated after the war.

If you visit the Cape May County museum, you should be able to see my ggggfather’s powderhorn. I donated it to the museum before I left for China, as my children were not in the position to store and protect it reliably.

Sorry, got off point there. The colonial militias were there to protect the community, and of course to serve in the Revolution when called up. They were not there to get in a shooting war with other militias. Your Facebook dude is confusing the colonial era with feudal Europe.

296

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 7:08:59pm

re: #293 Ace Rothstein

[Embedded content]

The war on the poor is the most pathetic canard there TBH.

297

jaunte Oct 4, 2017 • 7:10:32pm

Tom Price lost his job over the charter jet, but Kellyanne Conway was on it with him. @RepCummings wants answers pic.twitter.com/VXxtGh4a5B

— Walter Shaub (@waltshaub) October 5, 2017

Reply Reply w/ Quote Images

“In contrast with Secretary Price, you have been silent about your actions.”

298

TedStriker Oct 4, 2017 • 7:10:46pm

re: #280 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

[Embedded content]

That Kang is good, but wrong one:

299

Quoth the raven, Covfefe. Oct 4, 2017 • 7:11:53pm

re: #293 Ace Rothstein

[Embedded content]

You can go to a gun range whose proprietor has an automatic firearms license from the ATF and shoot whatever the fuck kind of automatic weapon you want, for as much or less than what you’d pay for a bump stock to “play pretend”. There is no logical justification for a bump stock that doesn’t involve being a gun fetishist.

300

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 7:12:17pm

re: #290 EPR-radar

But this business of RKBA to defend vs. militias is batshit insane.

WEll, we get into deep political philosophy here.

A truly free citizen is the master of his government — thus our Constitution that limits government. We are not ruled, we (in theory) are the rulers.

With this comes the responsibility to defend. This serious shit. Humans being what they are.

If the shit really does ever hit the fan, it will be every man for himself. Every neighborhood, community, state for its self.

I’ve read enough post-apocalyptic novels to understand various scenarios.

That being said, I still think a shotgun and pistol are all that would be useful.

301

TedStriker Oct 4, 2017 • 7:12:30pm

re: #294 HappyWarrior

That’s surprisingly refreshing. I’ll believe it when I see it though.

When GOPers start attaching their names to that bill and publicly state their support of it (and vote to enact it), I’ll believe it.

302

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 7:13:07pm

re: #299 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

You can go to a gun range whose proprietor has an automatic firearms license from the ATF and shoot whatever the fuck kind of automatic weapon you want, for as much or less than what you’d pay for a bump stock to “play pretend”. There is no logical justification for a bump stock that doesn’t involve being a gun fetishist.

Right.

303

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 7:13:31pm

re: #301 TedStriker

When GOPers start attaching their names to that bill and publicly state their support of it (and vote to enact it), I’ll believe it.

Yep and I’ll believe them when they actually stand up to the NRA instead of being the NRA’s waterboys.

304

whitebeach Oct 4, 2017 • 7:13:52pm

re: #285 wheat-dogg

Since Steig Larsson’s death, another writer has continued the series of “The Girl Who …” . I considering buying it for my Kindle.

Sometimes these things work fairly well, for instance Ace Atkins’s continuations of the late, great Robert B. Parker’s “Spenser” series. I hope this one works even half as well. If it does, I’ll read. I can guarantee you that Larsson was going to go somewhere with Lisbet’s twin sister, who was only a hinted entity in the trilogy.

305

Ace Rothstein Oct 4, 2017 • 7:13:53pm

Forgive my cynicism, but that bump stock bill has no chance in hell of ever passing. Ever.

306

Quoth the raven, Covfefe. Oct 4, 2017 • 7:14:49pm

re: #305 Ace Rothstein

Forgive my cynicism, but that bump stock bill has no chance in hell of ever passing. Ever.

No forgiveness needed - you know it, I know it, all of us here know it. Most importantly, the NRA knows it, as long as they pay their blood price to the blood god.

307

prairiefire Oct 4, 2017 • 7:15:04pm

Hopefully Trump will be talked about and reviled for decades. None of this Reagan, Bush 2 whitewashing (word!) bullshit.

308

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 7:15:15pm

re: #303 HappyWarrior

Yep and I’ll believe them when they actually stand up to the NRA instead of being the NRA’s waterboys.

When we accept that arms sales are important to our economy and take steps to change it, perhaps.

Arms sales have been big bucks for centuries. Its a market that will always be served.

309

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 7:16:55pm

re: #308 Birth Control Works

When we accept that arms sales are important to our economy and take steps to change it, perhaps.

Arms sales have been big bucks for centuries. Its a market that will always be served.

Yet it’s only in the past 40 years that the gun lobby has been radical. Read SL’s link above about how the moderates in the NRA were purged in favor of extremists. It’s true. Arms sales drive economies but at the same time, we have not always had a gun lobby that rejects any sensible legislation on firearms, that’s a recent development.

310

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 7:17:51pm

re: #305 Ace Rothstein

Forgive my cynicism, but that bump stock bill has no chance in hell of ever passing. Ever.

You’re not cynical. You’re realistic.

311

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 7:18:47pm

re: #309 HappyWarrior

Yet it’s only in the past 40 years that the gun lobby has been radical. Read SL’s link above about how the moderates in the NRA were purged in favor of extremists. It’s true. Arms sales drive economies but at the same time, we have not always had a gun lobby that rejects any sensible legislation on firearms, that’s a recent development.

Is it?

Or is it just since Hiroshima that we have had a conscious.

There are some that would say it all started with the 19th Amendment.

312

TedStriker Oct 4, 2017 • 7:20:14pm

re: #308 Birth Control Works

When we accept that arms sales are important to our economy and take steps to change it, perhaps.

Arms sales have been big bucks for centuries. Its a market that will always be served.

War, sex, and some combination of the two has always sold well and, barring some major global enlightenment, will always sell, either until we completely off ourselves as a species or the heat death of the universe happens.

313

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 7:20:58pm

re: #311 Birth Control Works

Is it?

Or is it just since Hiroshima that we have had a conscious.

Yes. The NRA certainly has gotten more radical since the 1960’s and 1970’s. They promoted safety and responsible ownership for a long time but in the past 40 years, they’ve promoted an absolutist reading of the 2nd and attacked anyone who supports any sort of sensible legislation on guns including legislation their org once supported.

314

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 7:21:45pm

re: #312 TedStriker

War, sex, and some combination of the two has always sold well and, barring some major global enlightenment, will always sell, either until we completely off ourselves as a species or the heat death of the universe happens.

I’d rather we stopped lying to ourselves and accept reality.

Religion, the moral whackos and those who wish to control have created a mythology that doesn’t serve us very well. IMHO

315

TedStriker Oct 4, 2017 • 7:22:00pm

re: #305 Ace Rothstein

Forgive my cynicism, but that bump stock bill has no chance in hell of ever passing. Ever.

re: #310 HappyWarrior

You’re not cynical. You’re realistic.

That’s why “some Republicans” are making noises about supporting it, because they know a snowball in Hell has a better chance; they get to have their cake and eat it too.

316

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 7:23:03pm

re: #313 HappyWarrior

Yes. The NRA certainly has gotten more radical since the 1960’s and 1970’s. They promoted safety and responsible ownership for a long time but in the past 40 years, they’ve promoted an absolutist reading of the 2nd and attacked anyone who supports any sort of sensible legislation on guns including legislation their org once supported.

Vietman and the original gun control legislation in 1968? Was that the impetus? The Televised War did have a major impact. Mothers saw exactly what war is.

Big Men had to find a way to combat it.

317

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 7:23:57pm

The fact is this. No, we’re not going to be able to prevent all acts of gun violence in this country. No one I know is that naive but we can and should be able to reduce them. When car accidents and plane crashes were at record highs, we promoted and devised measures for car and airplane safety and now flying in a plane or driving in a car is the safest it’s been in years. We can do the same with guns. Tragedies will occur but we can reduce them and that’s why I support sensible legislation on this subject. Sitting on our hands and doing nothing is wrong.

318

fern01 Oct 4, 2017 • 7:25:07pm

re: #234 Birth Control Works

I personal belief is that most of our current problems are caused by overpopulation.

Unplanned and out-of-control breeding causes misery. It doesn’t matter what species.

I would upding this 10 times if I could - the outrage against birth control related to the ACA was the insanity of mind boggling proportion.

319

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 7:25:47pm

re: #316 Birth Control Works

Vietman and the original gun control legislation in 1968? Was that the impetus? The Televised War did have a major impact. Mothers saw exactly what war is.

Big Men had to find a way to combat it.

I can’t say. I think the rise of crime in the 60’s and 70’s made many people scared about outsiders and intruders. And then you have events like what we saw on Sunday night which make people want to buy more guns even though someone with a gun, even a good shooter wouldn’t have stopped it. IT’s also our culture. Everyone wants to come in and stop the bad guy. And I think it’s admirable to want to be a hero in a situation like that but there’s different ways of being a hero.

320

TedStriker Oct 4, 2017 • 7:26:17pm

re: #316 Birth Control Works

Vietman and the original gun control legislation in 1968? Was that the impetus? The Televised War did have a major impact. Mothers saw exactly what war is.

Big Men had to find a way to combat it.

Don’t forget about the fight for civil rights happening in that same period, because, once all men (and women) were supposed to be equal under the law, gun-fucking racists and bigots would want to make sure they kept the edge.

That’s who took over the NRA.

321

Quoth the raven, Covfefe. Oct 4, 2017 • 7:26:40pm

re: #317 HappyWarrior

The fact is this. No, we’re not going to be able to prevent all acts of gun violence in this country. No one I know is that naive but we can and should be able to reduce them. When car accidents and plane crashes were at record highs, we promoted and devised measures for car and airplane safety and now flying in a plane or driving in a car is the safest it’s been in years. We can do the same with guns. Tragedies will occur but we can reduce them and that’s why I support sensible legislation on this subject. Sitting on our hands and doing nothing is wrong.

People continually tell me my wife’s ‘79 land yacht must be 10x safer than anything on the road today. Yeah, well, it may weigh 5000 lbs, but the safety devices are primitive and the thing would ram the engine block through the firewall if I hit somebody else with it. Like it or not, my 2010 Malibu saved Mrs. Fish’s life last November, where in her own ‘97 she probably would’ve died.

322

BlueSpotinAL Oct 4, 2017 • 7:28:21pm

re: #259 EPR-radar

A broken mercury thermometer in someone’s home would typically send blobs of liquid mercury to very inaccessible places where they would emit fumes over time. Low level exposure, but still nasty.

Apply sulfur to the area.

323

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 7:28:31pm

re: #320 TedStriker

Don’t forget about the fight for civil rights happening in that same period, because, once all men (and women) were supposed to be equal under the law, gun-fucking racists and bigots would want to make sure they kept the edge.

That’s who took over the NRA.

Yep and if you read SL’s link. The man responsible was a guy who murdered a Hispanic but got off on a technicality.

324

TedStriker Oct 4, 2017 • 7:29:02pm

re: #321 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

People continually tell me my wife’s ‘79 land yacht must be 10x safer than anything on the road today. Yeah, well, it may weigh 5000 lbs, but the safety devices are primitive and the thing would ram the engine block through the firewall if I hit somebody else with it. Like it or not, my 2010 Malibu saved Mrs. Fish’s life last November, where in her own ‘97 she probably would’ve died.

Proof of this, even if you’ve seen it before:

Crash Test 1959 Chevrolet Bel Air VS. 2009 Chevrolet Malibu (Frontal Offset) IIHS 50th Anniversary

325

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 7:29:27pm

re: #321 Quoth the raven, Covfefe.

People continually tell me my wife’s ‘79 land yacht must be 10x safer than anything on the road today. Yeah, well, it may weigh 5000 lbs, but the safety devices are primitive and the thing would ram the engine block through the firewall if I hit somebody else with it. Like it or not, my 2010 Malibu saved Mrs. Fish’s life last November, where in her own ‘97 she probably would’ve died.

Contrary to what people want to believe, regulations are often a good thing and they save lives. Deregulation costs lives.

326

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 7:31:17pm

And I’m sorry Mr. Businessman, yeah lives matter more than your profits. My ability to breath clean air should matter more than you saving some bucks because you don’t care about clean air coming from your plant. And I could on and on.

327

Quoth the raven, Covfefe. Oct 4, 2017 • 7:31:48pm

re: #324 TedStriker

Proof of this, even if you’ve seen it before:

[Embedded content]

Video

Jesus Christ.

328

Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines Oct 4, 2017 • 7:33:32pm

re: #320 TedStriker

Don’t forget about the fight for civil rights happening in that same period, because, once all men (and women) were supposed to be equal under the law, gun-fucking racists and bigots would want to make sure they kept the edge.

That’s who took over the NRA.

Knowing the history and something about the personalities involved, especially Harlon Carter, I tend to favor the Civil Rights explanation. I can remember white bigots being terrified that blacks would rampage out of control once the Civil Rights Act of 1964 removed all restraint. “It won’t be safe for a white woman to walk down the street!” was a popular refrain.

329

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 7:33:59pm

re: #325 HappyWarrior

Contrary to what people want to believe, regulations are often a good thing and they save lives. Deregulation costs lives.

I try to remind people that most regulations are in place because of a lawsuit. $$$ not lives cause regulations. It’s cheaper to prevent a disaster than pay lawyers afterward.

Even as a smoker, I applaud the fire-safe-cigarette. Damn thing goes out if you don’t puff every few seconds. I go thru a lot more lighters.

330

HappyWarrior Oct 4, 2017 • 7:34:31pm

re: #329 Birth Control Works

I try to remind people that most regulations are in place because of a lawsuit. $$$ not lives cause regulations. It’s cheaper to prevent a disaster than pay lawyers afterward.

Even as a smoker, I applaud the fire-safe-cigarette. Damn thing goes out if you don’t puff every few seconds. I go thru a lot more lighters.

That’s a good point too.

331

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 7:35:01pm

re: #328 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Knowing the history and something about the personalities involved, especially Harlon Carter, I tend to favor the Civil Rights explanation. I can remember white bigots being terrified that blacks would rampage out of control once the Civil Rights Act of 1964 removed all restraint. “It won’t be safe for a white woman to walk down the street!” was a popular refrain.

Yeah, the idea of a white woman enjoying the company of a black man and producing healthy racially mixed children is so much more terrifying than inbreeding.

332

Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines Oct 4, 2017 • 7:36:47pm

re: #331 Birth Control Works

Yeah, the idea of a woman enjoying the company of a black man and producing healthy racially mixed children is so much more terrifying than inbreeding.

Terrifying to inbreds at any rate.

333

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 7:38:11pm

re: #324 TedStriker

Proof of this, even if you’ve seen it before:

[Embedded content]

Video

better living thru science!

334

Birth Control Works Oct 4, 2017 • 7:40:00pm

re: #324 TedStriker

The insurance industry is one that I think does a good job of self-regulating. It is one in which the prevention of disaster and the bottom line coincide.

335

ObserverArt Oct 4, 2017 • 7:44:49pm

re: #145 BeachDem

Here you go:

Has your U.S. Congress person received donations from the NRA?

washingtonpost.com

Thanks Dem!

Interesting. Ohio has 13 Republicans receiving NRA donations and 1 Democrat.

Thing is, the Democrat is TIm Ryan…sometimes considered a Presidential Candidate. I find that interesting. I imagine being on the Northeastern Edge of Ohio he deals with a lot of hunters. I’d be interested in hearing what he has to say about that. 5th highest dollar amount too. Tim, Tim, Tim. WTF?

Spy Auto

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