Kentucky Gov. Beshear Wants State Money for Creationist Theme Park

Wingnuts • Views: 35,100

Although the vast majority of creationist politicians are Republicans, here’s a monumental facepalm of a story from Kentucky, where Democratic Governor Steve Beshear is proposing to hand over millions of state dollars and tax breaks to a dishonest fundamentalist Christian group run by fanatics, to build a ludicrous creationist “theme park” promoting the nonsensical fantasy that Noah’s Ark existed in the real world.

I can hardly believe this story is true; it seems like some sort of weird joke. But it’s not: Kentucky: The Governor of the Commonwealth - Press Release.

FRANKFORT, Ky.— Governor Steve Beshear today joined the Ark Encounter LLC to announce the planned construction of a full-scale Noah’s Ark tourist attraction in northern Kentucky. Partnering with the Ark Encounter is Answers in Genesis, which is most widely known for its high-tech and popular Creation Museum in Petersburg, Ky.

“We are excited to join with the Ark Encounter group as it seeks to provide this unique, family-friendly tourist attraction to the Commonwealth,” said Gov. Beshear. “Bringing new jobs to Kentucky is my top priority, and with the estimated 900 jobs this project will create, I am happy about the economic impact this project will have on the Northern Kentucky region.”

The Ark Encounter is scheduled to open in spring 2014 in northern Kentucky. Multiple sites are being considered, although property in Grant County off I-75 is at the top of the list. A feasibility study conducted by the renowned America’s Research Group has indicated that the Ark Encounter may attract 1.6 million visitors in the first year and is expected to employ up to 900 full- and part-time staff.

The for-profit Ark Encounter project will be privately funded at an estimated cost of $150 million. The final site selection for the Ark Encounter is subject to the ability to acquire all of the land needed for the project, and the approval of certain state and local incentives and other assistance for the project.

“We are very pleased to be a part of this new project,” said Ken Ham, president and founder of AiG and the Creation Museum. “AiG has been blessed to see the Creation Museum host over one million guests in three years. Based on our experience and success operating the large, state-of-the-art Creation Museum, our board believes the time is right to partner with the Ark Encounter in building a full-scale Noah’s Ark. We hope that this fun and educational complex called the Ark Encounter will become another popular tourist destination for the state.”

In addition to the full-size Ark, the complex will include a Walled City much like was found in ancient times, live animal shows, a children’s interactive play area, a replica of the Tower of Babel with exhibits, a 500-seat 5-D special effects theater, an aviary, and a first-century Middle Eastern village. To showcase the “green” construction methods and materials that will be used, the complex will also include a Special Events Area for large gatherings, highlighting some of the Leader in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) building techniques used to construct the Ark Encounter.

Here’s the very professional website these fanatics have set up, using the tools of modern science to promote Dark Ages throwback fantasies: Ark Encounter: Help Build the Ark!

Steve Beshear differs from Republican creationists in that he doesn’t appear to personally believe these fantasies are real; in a 2007 debate, he stated that “intelligent design” creationism had no place in science classrooms:

The candidates had opposite views about teaching intelligent design in schools.

“I think there’s nothing wrong with teaching that, in fact, i think to teach that is part of our founding heritage and i think it’s very important,” says Fletcher.

“I believe that science ought to be taught in schools and religion ought to be taught at home and in the churches and in the synagogues,” says Beshear.

So his reason for supporting this project that will make Kentucky even more of a laughingstock for the world seems to be purely economical. He believes there are enough idiots who will spend enough money to visit this park that it will offset the lost revenue from Kentucky’s former cash cow, tobacco — as this jaw-dropping video of his press conference shows:

Youtube Video

Beshear’s vision for Kentucky’s economic revival seems to be to transition away from an evil product that destroys the physical health of Americans, to an evil product that destroys the minds of American children.

And speaking of Answers in Genesis, I’ve had a previous encounter with these people, when one of their staff members harassed me with dozens of hate mails ranting about creationism, and predicting I was going to burn in hell.

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283 comments
1 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:35:03am

If, as they say this will make money, they should not need government funds.

Also, using government funds to pay for something so egregiously religious is wrong.

2 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:35:42am

Can I nominate this as an example of useless waste of “science” dollars?

3 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:36:51am

re: #1 EmmmieG

If, as they say this will make money, they should not need government funds.

Also, using government funds to pay for something so egregiously religious is wrong.

let it pile up in court…strip them of their funds through endless litigation?…probably not

4 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:39:24am

re: #3 albusteve

let it pile up in court…strip them of their funds through endless litigation?…probably not

My guess is that they’ll lose in court. It’s a religious project and I don’t think they can use taxpayer money for it.

5 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:39:45am

“onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war”…..used to sing that in church when I was little…now I get it

6 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:40:24am

So, I guess the world is now divided into those who would like to go to the Harry Potter theme park and those who would like to go to the Ark theme park.

Expelliarmus!

7 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:40:28am

re: #2 LudwigVanQuixote

Hey Ludwig, am I right in saying that for observant Jews other than the few literalist sects, the Ark story is seen as talking about a local phenomenon or taken metaphorically? I’ve never spoken to any of my observant friends about it, or Dr. Alter.

8 moose9t9  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:40:42am

Just so I understand this correctly, a piece of art in an exhibit at the Smithsonian about AIDS which has a depiction of Jesus Christ covered in ants is bad because the government shouldn’t be paying for religious works as per Cantor and Boehner, but this is OK?

9 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:40:53am

re: #4 Killgore Trout

My guess is that they’ll lose in court. It’s a religious project and I don’t think they can use taxpayer money for it.

sick the ACLU on ‘em

10 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:42:40am

It will be the largest employer in the area. Paying 3 Denarius a week!!!!!

11 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:45:34am

They’ll also have a Tower of Babel and the Parting of the Red Sea:

# The Tower of Babel: Over 100 feet tall, this structure depicts how the tower may have looked after its completion. Guests enter a highly themed interior and weave along a path that introduces exhibits on the origination of languages and people groups (so-called “races”). The path ultimately leads to a 500-seat special effects theater.
# Journey through Biblical History: Visitors take a journey through Old Testament times, with spectacular special effects to help share some of the experiences of the Israelites. Beginning after Noah’s Flood and the time of Abraham, the journey through ancient times depicts the formation of Israel, Moses and the ten plagues in Egypt, and the parting of the Red Sea.


I wonder if they’ll include an animatronic exhibit of the massacre of the Canaanites?

12 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:46:50am

Oops
Link: Tower of Babel

13 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:47:03am

re: #11 Shiplord Kirel

They’ll also have a Tower of Babel and the Parting of the Red Sea:


I wonder if they’ll include an animatronic exhibit of the massacre of the Canaanites?

sounds Onionesque

14 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:47:39am

re: #11 Shiplord Kirel

They’ll also have a Tower of Babel and the Parting of the Red Sea:

I thought that Universal Studios in California already had a parting of the Red Sea? I swear they did.

15 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:48:23am

re: #14 EmmmieG

I thought that Universal Studios in California already had a parting of the Red Sea? I swear they did.

I went through it in the early 80s. It was craptacular.:)

16 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:48:46am

re: #15 Amory Blaine

I went through it in the early 80s. It was craptacular.:)

And what makes you think this one will be any better?

17 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:49:04am

OT:

My kids are on the way home on the bus. Looks like those guys had no weapons, just weed & alcohol. They caught another guy but the driver is still on the loose. They will get him, they have his truck and probably know where he lives.

UPDATE:

Virginia State Police have ended their active search for a driver who ran away from a traffic stop in Afton.

Sgt. G.L. Miller said police still are investigating the incident and expect that charges will be filed against the driver. Police were able to catch up with a passenger who also fled the scene.

At 9:22 a.m., Miller said, a trooper tried to stop a red 1980 Ford F-150 driving on Route 151. Authorities said the vehicle turned and went to the top of Bland Wade Lane, which is a private drive, before the driver and a passenger fled from the truck. Miller said the driver allowed the truck to roll back into the police car, causing about $1,200 in damage to the cruiser.

Miller said it’s common for people to run away from traffic stops, although police don’t usually call in a helicopter and a tracking dog to find them, as they did during this incident. He said state police had no reason to believe that he was armed and dangerous, although authorities found a small amount of marijuana and indications that alcohol might have been involved while looking into the incident.

I feel so much better.

18 Randall Gross  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:49:11am

re: #4 Killgore Trout

My guess is that they’ll lose in court. It’s a religious project and I don’t think they can use taxpayer money for it.

I’m with you - because this park is themed to a particular set of religions they won’t be able to do it without tripping over our constitution.

19 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:49:28am

re: #15 Amory Blaine

I went through it in the early 80s. It was craptacular.:)

I also lifted the ATeam van and saw the Knight rider car.

Feel free to ridicule…

20 elizajane  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:49:40am

re: #11 Shiplord Kirel

They’ll also have a Tower of Babel and the Parting of the Red Sea:


I wonder if they’ll include an animatronic exhibit of the massacre of the Canaanites?

I love the Tower of Babel! When you come out, I presume that you can no longer speak the same language as those who have not participated. This might explain a great deal about the far Right today.

As for the Ark: a stinking multi-storey windowless wooden zoo? This will be a huge commercial success? And will they have some way to demonstrate that it would be capable of floating, fully loaded, for 40 days?

21 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:49:53am

sounds like the episode of the simpsons where Flanders builds a jesus themed park in honor of his late wife and a natural gas leak causes everyone to have “visions”.

funniest part was the “boat ride” where they were stopped to hear all the psalms.

22 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:51:03am

…and a new testament exhibit dramatizes fundmentalist christians ignoring the teachings of jesus…

23 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:51:35am

re: #20 elizajane

As for the Ark: a stinking multi-storey windowless wooden zoo? This will be a huge commercial success? And will they have some way to demonstrate that it would be capable of floating, fully loaded, for 40 days?

well we could load them all in it and drop it in the ocean and find out.

24 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:52:00am

Will they be hiring sodomites?

25 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:52:34am

re: #24 Amory Blaine

I’ll volunteer to play one.

26 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:52:58am

re: #18 Thanos

I’m with you - because this park is themed to a particular set of religions they won’t be able to do it without tripping over our constitution.

grease enough wheels and anything is possible…I’m pretty cynical

27 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:53:10am

re: #22 engineer dog

Next up, gladiator arenas where the mighty christians fight lions and rides simulating the crucifixion.

28 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:53:24am

re: #20 elizajane

I love the Tower of Babel! When you come out, I presume that you can no longer speak the same language as those who have not participated. This might explain a great deal about the far Right today.

As for the Ark: a stinking multi-storey windowless wooden zoo? This will be a huge commercial success? And will they have some way to demonstrate that it would be capable of floating, fully loaded, for 40 days?

Sounds like a PPV version of “Hoarders”

29 mojo9  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:54:38am

They need to take a lesson from Heritage, USA.

30 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:54:47am

Did Carnival Cruise line just treat everyone to an “ark experience?”

Three days on a ship with no refrigeration, no hot water, and a bunch of animals. (Bi-peds, but still, animals.)

Didn’t go over well.

31 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:56:43am

They filmed Evan Almighty down the road from me. Here is the Ark from the movie in Crozet.

32 BishopX  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:56:49am

re: #4 Killgore Trout

I’m not sure is this actually fails the Lemon Test, which is the current legal doctrine regarding separation of church and state.

From Wikipedia:


1. The government’s action must have a secular legislative purpose;
2. The government’s action must not have the primary effect of either advancing or inhibiting religion;
3. The government’s action must not result in an “excessive government entanglement” with religion.

Part one seems okay, tax break for job creation is a pretty standard legislative tool. Prong 2 is iffty, as long as they can argue that this is primarily an entertainment venue as opposed to a religious institution then I can see the state being in the clear. After all, they’re funding the theme park part of the project, not the creationism part. Part three is arguable, it will depend on how it’s structured.

Basically as long the the government can argue that they’re funding a theme park to take advantage of a unmet market, and that doing so will be good for Kentucky, they are probably be in the clear.

That being said I would much prefer if it was clear that the government couldn’t fund stuff like this. I would hope that this gets struck down.

33 jaunte  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:59:12am
On the Ark Encounter website, fans of the project can donate $100 to sponsor a wooden peg; $1,000 for a plank; or $5,000 for a beam.

That’s some damned expensive wood.

34 NVAudiophile  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 11:59:47am

I’ve always found the Noah’s Ark story interesting. I can well imagine a farmer, centuries ago, who lived in a flood plain, deciding to build a boat to salvage some livestock and provisions in the event of a flood. Such a person, living his whole life within a 100 mile radius, without any knowledge as to the size of the earth, might reasonably conclude the entire earth had flooded. Such a story, told and retold, could well be embellished through the ages. What’s ridiculous, however, is combining the story of the flood with our present-day knowledge as to the size of the earth, and seriously believing that all of the land masses were underwater. Exaggeration as to the duration of the flood, and any divine cause, is equally ridiculous.

35 CarleeCork  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:00:04pm

re: #8 moose9t9

Just so I understand this correctly, a piece of art in an exhibit at the Smithsonian about AIDS which has a depiction of Jesus Christ covered in ants is bad because the government shouldn’t be paying for religious works as per Cantor and Boehner, but this is OK?


The exhibit was removed, do try and keep up.

36 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:00:23pm

re: #32 BishopX

Part one seems okay, tax break for job creation is a pretty standard legislative tool.

I don’t think so. That would allow government spending on pretty much any religious activity, since you’re always creating jobs.

And I don’t see how on earth anyone could possibly say something that prosletyzes a specific religious belief doesn’t have the primary effect of advancing those religions that endorse that view, and inhibiting those that don’t.

37 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:00:24pm

re: #7 Obdicut

Hey Ludwig, am I right in saying that for observant Jews other than the few literalist sects, the Ark story is seen as talking about a local phenomenon or taken metaphorically? I’ve never spoken to any of my observant friends about it, or Dr. Alter.

You are running into a major split here.

There are very, very few Jews who are so uneducated that they could take the Ark story completely literally.

Much like the whole what is a day set of questions, there is a lot of room in the Tradition to come up with ways to make the story fit the science.

Unlike that though, it is not as simple or direct.

Some kind of hem and haw at this. They know that claiming the flood as literally interpreted, will get them hammered by any common sense science argument and in Judaism, just saying “It’s a miracle, don’t ask” rarely flies. However, they are unwilling to say that the story lacks much more truth than just a metaphoric level. There are various elaborate ways that people try to make the science and the story fit though. They are not very satisfying to me (or many of them). Hence, they don’t say a lot about it.

There are quite a few like me, who just say, look it is a metaphor! The truth of the story is man’s ability to destroy his world through his corruption, and don’t be an ass and miss that message!

I would add, the case of global warming, the politics that keeps us bound to emissions and the utter exploitation of billions the current system at every level, is a very relevant and current example. We really are literally and without hyperbole, talking about the greed, corruption, avarice and stupidity of man, destroying our world. Our sins are literally corrupting the very Earth.

A message that G-d will let you suffer the consequences of that sort of evil stupidity is not only relevant but vital that people understand. There will be no do-over if we cross the line. The world as we know it really is ending, right now.

38 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:02:37pm

re: #34 NVAudiophile

some say that the story of Noah was basically absorbed from the Sumerian/Babylonian epic of Gilgamesh which has a similar flood story. They think it was absorbed by the Israelites who were enslaved in Babylon.

39 BishopX  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:02:54pm

re: #36 Obdicut

Again, I think you can draw a line between education and entertainment. As long as they can claim that it’s just a theme park they they have a leg to stand on.

40 moose9t9  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:02:58pm

re: #35 CarleeCork

I guess I should have been clearer. Where is Cantor and that other guy in this. Its government money and religion involved here.

41 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:03:38pm

re: #4 Killgore Trout

My guess is that they’ll lose in court. It’s a religious project and I don’t think they can use taxpayer money for it.

This is such a crystal clear violation of the establishment clause. I don’t see how this could stand a legal legal challenge.

42 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:04:15pm

re: #34 NVAudiophile

I figure he was a rich guy who hoarded animals. He knew the stench would be so bad so he built a big boat. He was rich so he gets a good story told about himself.

43 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:04:21pm

re: #39 BishopX

Are you saying that they’d be claiming they don’t really mean it, don’t really believe their message?

44 CarleeCork  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:05:01pm

re: #40 moose9t9

I guess I should have been clearer. Where is Cantor and that other guy in this. Its government money and religion involved here.


Sorry for the misunderstanding.

45 Gus  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:05:39pm

Richard Dawkins Debunks Noah’s Ark

Youtube Video
46 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:06:23pm

i have an ugly feeling, though, that the republican War on Reality, Science, and Human Compassion is only getting geared up and we will see startling New Frontiers in Stupidity and Meanness in the next few years

47 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:06:35pm

re: #8 moose9t9

Just so I understand this correctly, a piece of art in an exhibit at the Smithsonian about AIDS which has a depiction of Jesus Christ covered in ants is bad because the government shouldn’t be paying for religious works as per Cantor and Boehner, but this is OK?

eh, I’m confused.
The person approving the funding for this is the Gov of KY.
Not Cantor or Boehner. Or have I missed something?

48 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:07:18pm

re: #39 BishopX

Again, I think you can draw a line between education and entertainment. As long as they can claim that it’s just a theme park they they have a leg to stand on.

It’s going to be pretty hard to maintain that fiction, when Answers in Genesis is an explicitly Christian fundamentalist group that very actively proselytizes for the cause of creationism.

I think a strong case can be made that this is a clear violation of the Establishment Clause.

49 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:07:25pm

re: #40 moose9t9

I guess I should have been clearer. Where is Cantor and that other guy in this. Its government money and religion involved here.

Not sure Cantor or Boehner can tell the Governor of a state what to do.

50 jaunte  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:07:37pm
The First-Century Village: This area provides guests with the opportunity to experience a typical village that would have been found in the Middle East about 2,000 years ago. It is complete with period-costumed villagers, houses, a synagogue, a sheepfold, an olive press building, watchtowers, terraced farming, and a first-century dining facility where guests can reserve seats for a special first-century type of meal. The experience culminates with a visit to the Performing Arts Theater where a combined live and video-based show shares the summary of what guests have seen at the Ark Encounter. [Link: arkencounter.com…]


“We’ll tell you what you’ve seen, and also what it means.”

51 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:09:01pm

re: #39 BishopX

Again, I think you can draw a line between education and entertainment. As long as they can claim that it’s just a theme park they they have a leg to stand on.

In the press conference about this, someone associated with this stated, very clearly, that this park would enhance the faith of the locals (or something along those lines). It seemed very clear to me they intended for this park to be a faith-based park.

52 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:09:46pm

So, how did Noah take care of the fish on the Ark? He would have had to make preparations for salt versus fresh water, as well as pressure differences for different species.

53 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:10:09pm

re: #38 Dreggas

some say that the story of Noah was basically absorbed from the Sumerian/Babylonian epic of Gilgamesh which has a similar flood story. They think it was absorbed by the Israelites who were enslaved in Babylon.

The flood story and the Gilgamesh story are much much older than the Babylonian exile and were well known throughout the region long before the the exile.

My personal take is that there really was a massive flood somewhere that left a cultural memory in those that migrated to the region. Much has been made of the flooding of the Black sea some 10,000 years ago along those lines.

In any case, from a purely archeological point of view, it is not ridiculous to note that almost all major civilizations formed around rivers and that rivers flood. It is not unreasonable to expect accounts to come out of such things.

However, my real take on it is that the message of the story, what you are supposed to take home and meditate on, what you are supposed to guide your life by, is absolutely true. I repeat, that message is that it is possible for man’s sins, greed, avarice and stupidity to endanger mankind itself - and that is absolutely, literally true.

54 BishopX  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:10:19pm

re: #43 Obdicut

re: #48 Charles

re: #51 reine.de.tout

In that case then yes, this fails the second part of the Lemon Test.

55 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:10:48pm

re: #51 reine.de.tout

In the press conference about this, someone associated with this stated, very clearly, that this park would enhance the faith of the locals (or something along those lines). It seemed very clear to me they intended for this park to be a faith-based park.

Yeah, there’s just no way to claim this isn’t state funding of religion. That ship won’t float, so to speak.

56 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:11:04pm

Anyone else excited about that Nasa find?
Or…
Am I just a nerd?
:)

57 jaunte  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:11:06pm

For a $5,000 contribution, Ken Ham will sign your Ark model.

58 Gus  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:11:17pm

re: #52 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So, how did Noah take care of the fish on the Ark? He would have had to make preparations for salt versus fresh water, as well as pressure differences for different species.

I’m wondering how he made his way to Australia.

/

59 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:11:35pm

Another question. Will the theme parks have scale model arks that you can ride down a white water, water slide replica of the Grand Canyon?

60 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:11:43pm

re: #52 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So, how did Noah take care of the fish on the Ark? He would have had to make preparations for salt versus fresh water, as well as pressure differences for different species.

Well because Noah was an animal hoarder he didn’t have full use of his faculties the poor guy. The fish probably met an untimely death.

61 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:11:47pm

re: #56 Varek Raith

Anyone else excited about that Nasa find?
Or…
Am I just a nerd?
:)

I think it’s every bit as fascinating as this ark is stupid.

62 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:11:49pm

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote

The flood story and the Gilgamesh story are much much older than the Babylonian exile and were well known throughout the region long before the the exile.

My personal take is that there really was a massive flood somewhere that left a cultural memory in those that migrated to the region. Much has been made of the flooding of the Black sea some 10,000 years ago along those lines.

In any case, from a purely archeological point of view, it is not ridiculous to note that almost all major civilizations formed around rivers and that rivers flood. It is not unreasonable to expect accounts to come out of such things.

However, my real take on it is that the message of the story, what you are supposed to take home and meditate on, what you are supposed to guide your life by, is absolutely true. I repeat, that message is that it is possible for man’s sins, greed, avarice and stupidity to endanger mankind itself - and that is absolutely, literally true.

I recall part of the Mediterranean sea wall collapsing?
Something of that nature…

63 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:11:58pm

re: #52 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So, how did Noah take care of the fish on the Ark? He would have had to make preparations for salt versus fresh water, as well as pressure differences for different species.

The Answers in Genesis people have answers for all of those trick questions.

For example, how did Noah prevent the dinosaurs from eating up everything else?

Answer: amazingly enough, kids, dinosaurs were actually mild-mannered vegetarians!

Not kidding. That’s really what they believe.

64 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:12:32pm

re: #47 reine.de.tout

eh, I’m confused.
The person approving the funding for this is the Gov of KY.
Not Cantor or Boehner. Or have I missed something?

This story here.

65 Gus  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:12:57pm

re: #63 Charles

The Answers in Genesis people have answers for all of those trick questions.

For example, how did Noah prevent the dinosaurs from eating up everything else?

Answer: amazingly enough, kids, dinosaurs were actually mild-mannered vegetarians!

Not kidding. That’s really what they believe.

That reminds me of Eddie Izzard. Apparently the sharks also signed on to the Geneva Convention.

66 jaunte  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:13:03pm

re: #63 Charles

Pointy teeth, helpful in snagging leaves.

67 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:13:09pm

re: #63 Charles

The Answers in Genesis people have answers for all of those trick questions.

For example, how did Noah prevent the dinosaurs from eating up everything else?

Answer: amazingly enough, kids, dinosaurs were actually mild-mannered vegetarians!

Not kidding. That’s really what they believe.

Vegetarians with teeth completely ill suited for chewing plants. Have these people never seen a T-Rex skull? How the hell would that thing have chewed plants?

AAARRRRGGGGHHHHH

68 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:13:18pm

People who want government and religion to get involved have never actually thought it through.

In their minds, the government is promoting their religion, and with their prayers being said, and children being taught the religion of the person doing the thinking.

If your religion represents 51% of the US population, you can feel this way.

(This would mean, of course, that the new US religion is reality TV, with Kate Gosselin as the new High Priestess.)

69 CarleeCork  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:13:22pm

re: #63 Charles

The Answers in Genesis people have answers for all of those trick questions.

For example, how did Noah prevent the dinosaurs from eating up everything else?

Answer: amazingly enough, kids, dinosaurs were actually mild-mannered vegetarians!

Not kidding. That’s really what they believe.


Doesn’t that make them delusional?

70 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:13:43pm

re: #63 Charles

The Answers in Genesis people have answers for all of those trick questions.

For example, how did Noah prevent the dinosaurs from eating up everything else?

Answer: amazingly enough, kids, dinosaurs were actually mild-mannered vegetarians!

Not kidding. That’s really what they believe.

Actually, Noah said fuck the dinosaurs, which is why they aren’t around today. That’ll teach them for crapping on his lawn.

Stupid Creationist can’t even get their own story right

71 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:14:04pm

re: #63 Charles

The Answers in Genesis people have answers for all of those trick questions.

For example, how did Noah prevent the dinosaurs from eating up everything else?

Answer: amazingly enough, kids, dinosaurs were actually mild-mannered vegetarians!

Not kidding. That’s really what they believe.

Image: velociraptor.jpg
He just wants a hug!
/

72 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:14:06pm

re: #67 Fozzie Bear

Vegetarians with teeth completely ill suited for chewing plants. Have these people never seen a T-Rex skull? How the hell would that thing have chewed plants?

AAARRRGGGHHH

Moreover, whose job was it to get the spinach out of the T-rex’s teeth?

73 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:14:07pm

re: #69 CarleeCork

Doesn’t that make them delusional?

In more honest times, they would be called insane. Now they are entrepreneurs! Captains of industry!

74 Gus  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:14:32pm

re: #69 CarleeCork

Doesn’t that make them delusional?

Yep.

75 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:14:40pm

re: #56 Varek Raith

Anyone else excited about that Nasa find?
Or…
Am I just a nerd?
:)

Yes, this is amazingly exciting.

76 webevintage  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:15:06pm

re: #67 Fozzie Bear

Vegetarians with teeth completely ill suited for chewing plants. Have these people never seen a T-Rex skull? How the hell would that thing have chewed plants?

IT JUST WOULD BECAUSE KEN HAM SAYS SO!!!!11111!!!
/

As if they care what liberal commie god hating SCIENTIST think…..

77 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:15:23pm

re: #75 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, this is amazingly exciting.

The arsenic based life or the new number of stars?

78 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:15:26pm

Here’s Answers in Genesis attempting to explain dinosaur fossils to the rubes:

[Link: www.answersingenesis.org…]

79 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:15:34pm

re: #46 engineer dog

i have an ugly feeling, though, that the republican War on Reality, Science, and Human Compassion is only getting geared up and we will see startling New Frontiers in Stupidity and Meanness in the next few years

yup, I agree

80 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:15:54pm

re: #67 Fozzie Bear

No no no… the pointy teeth were useful in cleaning the skin of their fellow dinosaurs and scratching each other much as birds will pick over alligator and other animals for insects and the like… ////

No amount of science will overcome the fact that they believe, and therefore it must be so. Faith trumps facts.

81 CarleeCork  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:16:07pm

re: #77 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The arsenic based life or the new number of stars?


Both!

82 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:16:11pm

re: #71 Varek Raith

Image: velociraptor.jpg
He just wants a hug!
/

Makes a great mount, too!

83 Gus  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:16:28pm

Genesis CULT theme park.

84 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:16:33pm

re: #68 EmmmieG

(This would mean, of course, that the new US religion is reality TV, with Kate Gosselin as the new High Priestess.)

I’m definitely an atheist when it comes to that kind of religion.

85 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:16:43pm

Robot Chicken: Noah’s Ark

Youtube Video
86 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:17:12pm

re: #78 Charles

And yet that doesn’t answer the question about aquatic dinosaurs and why they no longer exist. Or evolution of species (but we know where they go with that)…

87 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:17:19pm

re: #59 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Another question. Will the theme parks have scale model arks that you can ride down a white water, water slide replica of the Grand Canyon?

there is that very ride at Great America in St Louis….minus the canyon

88 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:17:47pm

re: #56 Varek Raith

Anyone else excited about that Nasa find?
Or…
Am I just a nerd?
:)

What is “both”, Alex?

89 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:17:49pm

A reporter asked the governor is the state would similarly support an atheist theme park.
Possible exhibits:
The Earth time-line: A mile long ribbon marked with the various geological ages. The last sixteenth of an inch would represent historic time.
The Witch Hunt: An animatronic robot of an elderly woman is tied to a stake and burned alive, with her simulated skin falling off etc. This could be accompanied by a patented roast flesh scent distributed from vents around the exhibit.
The Crusades: Drunken knights pursue unarmed Jews through the streets of the Christian city of Mainz, with a pile of severed heads stacked against a wall.
The Evangelist’s Lair: A tacky multi-million dollar mcmansion with an old Buick out front and a Bentley hidden in the garage.
“Hiking the Appalachian Trail” (Adults only)

90 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:18:20pm

Is that tax cut vote coming up soon?

91 Gus  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:18:22pm

re: #86 lawhawk

And yet that doesn’t answer the question about aquatic dinosaurs and why they no longer exist. Or evolution of species (but we know where they go with that)…

That’s because the fossils of aquatic dinosaurs aren’t real. They were simply put there by the devil.

/

92 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:18:25pm

re: #78 Charles

Here’s Answers in Genesis attempting to explain dinosaur fossils to the rubes:

[Link: www.answersingenesis.org…]

I got as far as the first paragraph.

93 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:18:27pm

re: #78 Charles

Here’s Answers in Genesis attempting to explain dinosaur fossils to the rubes:

[Link: www.answersingenesis.org…]

Every time I think I’ve read the dumbest thing ever written, some one comes along and tops it.

94 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:18:37pm

re: #78 Charles

Here’s Answers in Genesis attempting to explain dinosaur fossils to the rubes:

[Link: www.answersingenesis.org…]

Most awesome picture ever subjected to Poe’s Law: Image: history-book-bible.jpg

95 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:18:48pm

re: #63 Charles

The Answers in Genesis people have answers for all of those trick questions.

For example, how did Noah prevent the dinosaurs from eating up everything else?

Answer: amazingly enough, kids, dinosaurs were actually mild-mannered vegetarians!

Not kidding. That’s really what they believe.

They think the Flintstones is a documentary.

I wrote this on the last thread:

I am sickened fury that dims my eye and ages me before my time.

I would be happy to let them all die - if they were destroying some other planet and tearing down some other civilization, where everyone I love didn’t live and everything I care about didn’t reside.

If there were some way to make a planet for the 90% of our species that is literally - understand I mean this literally- too stupid to survive, and let them kill themselves off, I would say good riddance.

But since we are stuck in the same eco-system as them, and they outnumber those with a clue, they will drag us all down with them.

Too stupid to survive is meant in the full and absolutely accurate, Darwinian sense. They are too stupid to see something that will kill them and get out of the way.

96 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:19:09pm

re: #77 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The arsenic based life or the new number of stars?

Both, for very different reasons.

97 webevintage  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:19:14pm

Eddie Izzard: Noah and his Ark

Youtube Video
98 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:19:23pm

re: #89 Shiplord Kirel

A reporter asked the governor is the state would similarly support an atheist theme park.
Possible exhibits:
The Earth time-line: A mile long ribbon marked with the various geological ages. The last sixteenth of an inch would represent historic time.
The Witch Hunt: An animatronic robot of an elderly woman is tied to a stake and burned alive, with her simulated skin falling off etc. This could be accompanied by a patented roast flesh scent distributed from vents around the exhibit.
The Crusades: Drunken knights pursue unarmed Jews through the streets of the Christian city of Mainz, with a pile of severed heads stacked against a wall.
The Evangelist’s Lair: A tacky multi-million dollar mcmansion with an old Buick out front and a Bentley hidden in the garage.
“Hiking the Appalachian Trail” (Adults only)

you’re getting pretty good

99 jaunte  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:19:43pm

re: #93 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)


The science that addresses such issues is known as historical or origins science, and it differs from the operational science that gives us computers, inexpensive food, space exploration, electricity, and the like. Origins science deals with the past, which is not accessible to direct experimentation, whereas operational science deals with how the world works in the here and now, which, of course, is open to repeatable experiments.


It’s easy to make stuff up when you have two kinds of science!

100 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:20:02pm

re: #87 albusteve

there is that very ride at Great America in St Louis…minus the canyon

/facepalm

101 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:20:33pm

re: #81 CarleeCork

Both!

Jinx!

102 darthstar  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:20:56pm

I burned in hell once…wasn’t all that exciting. Oh, wait…I only thought I was burning in hell because I’d eaten a ton of jalapenos while nursing a hemorrhoid.

103 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:21:30pm

re: #78 Charles

Here’s Answers in Genesis attempting to explain dinosaur fossils to the rubes:

[Link: www.answersingenesis.org…]

Originally, before sin, all animals, including the dinosaurs, were vegetarian. Genesis 1:30 states, “And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to every thing that creeps upon the earth, which has life, I have given every green herb for food: and it was so.”

This means that even T. rex, before sin entered the world, ate only plants. Some people object to this by pointing to the big teeth that a large T. rex had, insisting they must have been used for attacking animals. However, just because an animal has big, sharp teeth does not mean it eats meat. It just means it has big, sharp teeth!

Holy crap.

104 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:21:48pm

re: #62 Varek Raith

I recall part of the Mediterranean sea wall collapsing?
Something of that nature…

Yes, that is what I am referring to.

105 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:21:49pm

re: #63 Charles

The Answers in Genesis people have answers for all of those trick questions.

For example, how did Noah prevent the dinosaurs from eating up everything else?

Answer: amazingly enough, kids, dinosaurs were actually mild-mannered vegetarians!

Not kidding. That’s really what they believe.

One of the exhibits at the Creation Museum has a group of cavemen peacefully co-existing with a vegetarian tyrannosaurus.
(What does it eat with those teeth? Oak trees?)

106 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:21:52pm

re: #89 Shiplord Kirel

A reporter asked the governor is the state would similarly support an atheist theme park.
Possible exhibits:
The Earth time-line: A mile long ribbon marked with the various geological ages. The last sixteenth of an inch would represent historic time.
The Witch Hunt: An animatronic robot of an elderly woman is tied to a stake and burned alive, with her simulated skin falling off etc. This could be accompanied by a patented roast flesh scent distributed from vents around the exhibit.
The Crusades: Drunken knights pursue unarmed Jews through the streets of the Christian city of Mainz, with a pile of severed heads stacked against a wall.
The Evangelist’s Lair: A tacky multi-million dollar mcmansion with an old Buick out front and a Bentley hidden in the garage.
“Hiking the Appalachian Trail” (Adults only)

I wanna do the Witch Hunt!!!

107 Gus  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:22:37pm

re: #105 Shiplord Kirel

One of the exhibits at the Creation Museum has a group of cavemen peacefully co-existing with a vegetarian tyrannosaurus.
(What does it eat with those teeth? Oak trees?)

Coconuts.

108 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:22:37pm

re: #105 Shiplord Kirel

One of the exhibits at the Creation Museum has a group of cavemen peacefully co-existing with a vegetarian tyrannosaurus.
(What does it eat with those teeth? Oak trees?)

The T-rex is just looking for some BBQ sauce.

109 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:22:39pm

re: #103 Slumbering Behemoth

Holy crap.

You can’t fight that level of stupid. Uh uh. No way no how.

110 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:23:59pm

re: #107 Gus 802

Coconuts.

They could grip them by the husks.

111 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:24:51pm

Ultimate Irony:

Tas Walker the prolific creationist inbox burn in hell spammer is a geologist.

We should spam him with the funny ‘Teach the Controversy’ cartoon showing a devil creature covering up dinosaur bones.

112 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:24:54pm

re: #110 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

African or European?

113 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:25:03pm

I teach a lot of teach international graduate students.

When I tell them what large percentages of Americans believe, they are dumbfounded.

114 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:25:08pm

re: #108 Varek Raith

The T-rex is just looking for some BBQ sauce.

And the poor thing couldn’t even open the bottle if he found one, what with those widdle baby hands of his. No wonder they starved to death.

115 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:25:11pm

re: #109 JasonA

You can’t fight that level of stupid. Uh uh. No way no how.

presumably, the courts will save them from themselves

116 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:25:45pm

Rangels censure coming up..

117 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:26:03pm

re: #110 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They could grip them by the husks.

It’s not a question of how it grips it, it’s a simple matter of weight ratios!

118 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:26:06pm

re: #114 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And the poor thing couldn’t even open the bottle if he found one, what with those widdle baby hands of his. No wonder they starved to death.

Not to mention that prehistoric people would kill and eat anything that big and that peaceful if it got that close.

119 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:26:11pm

re: #112 lawhawk

African or European?

Pangean.

120 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:26:19pm

re: #113 Talking Point Detective

I teach a lot of teach international graduate students.

When I tell them what large percentages of Americans believe, they are dumbfounded.

What do you teach?

121 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:26:50pm

re: #110 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Creationists love to point out the panda, which has sharp canines, as an example of how the dinosaurs were vegetarian.

Thing is, the panda has really broad, flat molars. and its jaws are otherwise adapted to eating bamboo.

[Link: library.thinkquest.org…]

122 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:27:03pm

re: #105 Shiplord Kirel

One of the exhibits at the Creation Museum has a group of cavemen peacefully co-existing with a vegetarian tyrannosaurus.
(What does it eat with those teeth? Oak trees?)

Ok. Put the creators (HA!) of the Creation Museum in this situation.

Youtube Video

They’d shit their pants.
123 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:27:41pm

re: #103 Slumbering Behemoth

Originally, before sin, all animals, including the dinosaurs, were vegetarian. Genesis 1:30 states, “And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to every thing that creeps upon the earth, which has life, I have given every green herb for food: and it was so.”

This means that even T. rex, before sin entered the world, ate only plants.

I think it’s nice that creationists and rational people can at least come together and agree that mankind is the worst thing to ever happen to the world.

/

124 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:27:52pm

re: #121 Obdicut

Creationists love to point out the panda, which has sharp canines, as an example of how the dinosaurs were vegetarian.

Thing is, the panda has really broad, flat molars. and its jaws are otherwise adapted to eating bamboo.

[Link: library.thinkquest.org…]

But its a bear, and bears all have sharp teeth.

Stupid stupid Pandas, not knowing they’re supposed to have sharp teeth.

125 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:28:17pm
Youtube Video
126 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:28:31pm

That’s it. Somebody needs to get to work on genetically re-engineering the dinosaurs, so they can eat the stupid people.

We need more large predators. Really extremely large predators.

127 Gus  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:29:22pm

re: #122 Varek Raith

Ok. Put the creators (HA!) of the Creation Museum in this situation.

[Video]
They’d shit their pants.

Now there’s something I’d pay to see.

128 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:29:35pm

re: #125 Amory Blaine

Pandas really are ridiculously adorable.

129 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:29:35pm

re: #126 Fozzie Bear

That’s it. Somebody needs to get to work on genetically re-engineering the dinosaurs, so they can eat the stupid people.

We need more large predators. Really extremely large predators.

You rang?

130 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:29:51pm

re: #128 Fozzie Bear

Pandas really are ridiculously adorable.

And delicious.

131 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:29:56pm

re: #121 Obdicut

Creationists love to point out the panda, which has sharp canines, as an example of how the dinosaurs were vegetarian.

Thing is, the panda has really broad, flat molars. and its jaws are otherwise adapted to eating bamboo.

[Link: library.thinkquest.org…]

They fail to notice our very distinct lack of fangs, yet we are quite carnivorous as well….

132 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:30:19pm

re: #83 Gus 802

Not to be confused with this Genesis.

Youtube Video
Youtube Video
133 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:30:21pm

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You rang?

Bad, Kragar, bad!

134 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:30:28pm

re: #128 Fozzie Bear

Pandas really are ridiculously adorable.

That is another species that will not survive. They are too stupid to breed.

135 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:30:33pm

Has anyone done a calculation to determine just how big Noah’s ark would have had to have been to house one of each species of animal? How did he transport the animals that only live hundreds of feet deep in the oceans? What about animal species that live only in desert environments? How about lichens that live only in extreme alpine conditions.

I mean, I know they’ve found Noah’s Ark in Turkey (the proof is being withheld by Turkish authorities, I would guess), so they must know how he did all this, right?

136 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:31:15pm

re: #131 LudwigVanQuixote

They fail to notice our very distinct lack of fangs, yet we are quite carnivorous as well…

.

We don’t need fangs. We don’t need claws. (Even adamantine ones.) We don’t need to run really really fast and jump really really high.

We have this large lump of matter inside our craniums that is far more dangerous than anything else mother nature has cooked up.

137 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:31:27pm

re: #134 LudwigVanQuixote

That is another species that will not survive. They are too stupid to breed.

Yes, yes, but they are absurdly cute, so humans will keep them around, by hook or crook or artificial insemination.

138 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:32:24pm
Youtube Video
139 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:32:26pm

re: #136 EmmmieG

We have this large lump of matter inside our craniums that is far more dangerous than anything else mother nature has cooked up.

And the less it is used, the more dangerous it becomes, apparently.

140 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:32:49pm

re: #139 Slumbering Behemoth

And the less it is used, the more dangerous it becomes, apparently.

Bazinga!

141 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:36:25pm

The child nutrition bill goes to Obamas desk.

142 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:36:32pm

re: #139 Slumbering Behemoth

And the less it is used, the more dangerous it becomes, apparently.

The way I look at it is we have the potential to be incredibly smart, but most of us just end up being just smart enough to be monstrously destructive.

143 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:38:30pm

Middle class tax cut vote coming next.

144 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:38:37pm

Creationism reminds me of when I was a kid watching Star Wars. The TIE fighters screaming past on the screen. It just sounded right. Then stupid science told me that sound had no way to travel in a vacuum and couldn’t exist. And that objects in space really couldn’t move like that, zipping around in different directions all over the place. I hated having to let go of that image in my head of how super-cool space dogfights could be.

Then I turned nine and it stopped bothering me.

145 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:39:07pm

re: #136 EmmmieG

. We have this large lump of matter inside our craniums that is far more dangerous than anything else mother nature has cooked up.

Recently Miss S. decided to really tweak me. She sent me two video clips. One was from this show called the Jersey Shore or some such. It’s some “reality” show that I think is on MTV and the other was from a televangelist.

I could feel my brain cells becoming suicidal.

She quipped which is brighter?

Look at many typical politicians from the current crop of GOP. Then consider those who vote them in and buy the message without question.

Some chimps leave large chunks in their stools that are smarter.

146 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:39:22pm
Why Does It Matter?

Although dinosaurs are fascinating, some readers may say, “Why are dinosaurs such a big deal? Surely there are many more important issues to deal with in today’s world, such as abortion, family breakdown, racism, promiscuity, dishonesty, homosexual behavior, euthanasia, suicide, lawlessness, pornography, and so on. In fact, we should be telling people about the gospel of Jesus Christ, not worrying about side issues like dinosaurs.”

Actually, the evolutionary teachings on dinosaurs that pervade society do have a great bearing on why many will not listen to the gospel, and thus why social problems abound today. If they don’t believe the history in the Bible, why would anyone trust its moral aspects and message of salvation?

If we accept the evolutionary teachings on dinosaurs, then we must accept that the Bible’s account of history is false. If the Bible is wrong in this area, then it is not the Word of God and we can ignore everything else it says that we find inconvenient.

If everything made itself through natural processes—without God—then God does not own us and has no right to tell us how to live. In fact, God does not really exist in this way of thinking, so there is no absolute basis for morality. Without God, anything goes—concepts of right and wrong are just a matter of opinion. And without a basis for morality, there is no such thing as sin. And no sin means that there is no need to fear God’s judgment and there is no need for the Savior, Jesus Christ. The history in the Bible is vital for properly understanding why one needs to accept Jesus Christ.

That’s it, I quit. I’m gonna go live with the apes or something.

147 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:39:41pm

re: #144 JasonA

Creationism reminds me of when I was a kid watching Star Wars. The TIE fighters screaming past on the screen. It just sounded right. Then stupid science told me that sound had no way to travel in a vacuum and couldn’t exist. And that objects in space really couldn’t move like that, zipping around in different directions all over the place. I hated having to let go of that image in my head of how super-cool space dogfights could be.

Then I turned nine and it stopped bothering me.

Actually, you were hearing the vibrations of the twin ion engines being transmitted thru the ships hull.

148 Ojoe  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:39:46pm

And then let any man explain to me, if he can, how it happened that Scrooge, having his key in the lock of the door, saw in the knocker, without its undergoing any intermediate process of change-not a knocker, but Marley’s face.

A Christmas Carol, Charles Dickens.

149 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:40:51pm

re: #147 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Actually, you were hearing the vibrations of the twin ion engines being transmitted thru the ships hull.

Nope. The camera, my point of reference, was planted right there in the void of space. Nice try.

150 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:41:30pm

re: #148 Ojoe

Food poisoning.

151 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:41:41pm

re: #149 JasonA

Nope. The camera, my point of reference, was planted right there in the void of space. Nice try.

Duh, the camera was attached to the ship filming the battle.

152 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:42:27pm

re: #144 JasonA

Creationism reminds me of when I was a kid watching Star Wars. The TIE fighters screaming past on the screen. It just sounded right. Then stupid science told me that sound had no way to travel in a vacuum and couldn’t exist. And that objects in space really couldn’t move like that, zipping around in different directions all over the place. I hated having to let go of that image in my head of how super-cool space dogfights could be.

Then I turned nine and it stopped bothering me.

And more physical ones like the ones in B5, are more cool anyway. Rotating on your center of gravity, lining up a shot and strafing are a lot more interesting than flying like a plane.

153 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:42:52pm
If we accept the evolutionary teachings on dinosaurs, then we must accept that the Bible’s account of history is false. If the Bible is wrong in this area, then it is not the Word of God and we can ignore everything else it says that we find inconvenient.

This right here, is the source of fundamentalism. Religion is and always has been at odds with science, because both religion and science offer explanations of how the world works, and how things came to be. One is right, the other wrong, so there is an absolutely inevitable conflict there.

Flame away.

154 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:43:32pm

Only 2 GOP votes for middle class tax cut so far.

155 Ojoe  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:43:32pm

re: #146 Slumbering Behemoth

God exists in the here and now without need of any book, if you ask me.

156 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:43:40pm

re: #146 Slumbering Behemoth

If we accept the evolutionary teachings on dinosaurs, then we must accept that the Bible’s account of history is false. If the Bible is wrong in this area, then it is not the Word of God and we can ignore everything else it says that we find inconvenient.

If everything made itself through natural processes—without God—then God does not own us and has no right to tell us how to live. In fact, God does not really exist in this way of thinking, so there is no absolute basis for morality. Without God, anything goes—concepts of right and wrong are just a matter of opinion. And without a basis for morality, there is no such thing as sin. And no sin means that there is no need to fear God’s judgment and there is no need for the Savior, Jesus Christ. The history in the Bible is vital for properly understanding why one needs to accept Jesus Christ.

This is why atheists must be reviled to the point that they stay in the closet. If we are known as nice, normal, heavenforbid moral people, it will drive them to—-atheism.

157 Ojoe  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:43:51pm

re: #150 Slumbering Behemoth

Scrooge thought so.

158 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:45:37pm

re: #152 LudwigVanQuixote

And more physical ones like the ones in B5, are more cool anyway. Rotating on your center of gravity, lining up a shot and strafing are a lot more interesting than flying like a plane.

True.

And then he have the Joe Haldeman “Forever War” space battles,

“We’ve locked on and have fired torpedoes, impact in 4 days, 3 hours and 27 minutes. Brace yourselves.”

159 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:45:42pm

re: #156 wrenchwench

This is why atheists must be reviled to the point that they stay in the closet. If we are known as nice, normal, heavenforbid moral people, it will drive them to—-atheism.

For some other time, because I have to go, I challenge you to name one moral you have, that you hold dear, that you do not find in the Abrahamic Tradition.

The challenge is not about what you think is wrong about that Tradition. The challenge is name one moral you hold dear, that is not explicitly there.

160 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:45:49pm

re: #152 LudwigVanQuixote

And more physical ones like the ones in B5, are more cool anyway. Rotating on your center of gravity, lining up a shot and strafing are a lot more interesting than flying like a plane.

Battlestar Galactica made an effort too.

161 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:47:07pm

re: #159 LudwigVanQuixote

For some other time, because I have to go, I challenge you to name one moral you have, that you hold dear, that you do not find in the Abrahamic Tradition.

The challenge is not about what you think is wrong about that Tradition. The challenge is name one moral you hold dear, that is not explicitly there.

Why?

162 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:48:16pm

Ark Encounter announcement w/an intro from President & CEO of AiG, Ken Ham.

Youtube Video
163 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:48:32pm

re: #160 JasonA

Battlestar Galactica made an effort too.

Of course. In some ways, their effort was better. They got the details about sound right on the money, and they were dead on about kinetic kills being a devastating weapon in space. However, the design of a viper is a legacy from the original series. A starfury is the first and only SF fighter I have ever seen that was from just looking at it absolutely bred, form and function to the actual physics involved.

164 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:49:14pm

re: #161 wrenchwench

Why?

Just because, I have yet to meet an atheist who doesn’t have theist morals.

165 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:49:22pm

re: #149 JasonA

Some movies try quite hard to get the science and physics right. Think 2001 for instance (or 2010, which included aerobraking, a technique that JPL and NASA have actually used on their missions to Jupiter and Saturn).

The reboot of Star Trek actually showed parts of the initial battle with the Romulans in dead silence. I think that was a great and more visceral reaction since everyone expects to hear the explosions - the silence made the visuals more powerful in that instance.

[Link: www.intuitor.com…]

166 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:49:40pm

re: #164 LudwigVanQuixote

Just because, I have yet to meet an atheist who doesn’t have theist morals.

Is that a problem?

167 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:49:48pm

PIMF

Just because, I have yet to meet a moral atheist who doesn’t have theist morals.

168 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:50:08pm

re: #166 wrenchwench

Is that a problem?

No not at all. Just an observation.

169 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:50:22pm

re: #164 LudwigVanQuixote

Just because, I have yet to meet an atheist who doesn’t have theist morals.

so what?….a good idea is a good idea regardless of it’s origins

170 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:50:23pm

re: #159 LudwigVanQuixote

That was a pretty strange question to ask in reply to that post.

Anyway, equality and egalitarianism aren’t present in the Abrahamic tradition.

re: #164 LudwigVanQuixote

Just because, I have yet to meet an atheist who doesn’t have theist morals.

They’re not theist morals. They’re morals that were enshrined inside a theistic framework.

171 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:50:56pm

re: #159 LudwigVanQuixote

For some other time, because I have to go, I challenge you to name one moral you have, that you hold dear, that you do not find in the Abrahamic Tradition.

The challenge is not about what you think is wrong about that Tradition. The challenge is name one moral you hold dear, that is not explicitly there.

Name one that did not exist before the Abrahamic Tradition.

172 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:50:59pm

For anyone who hasn’t read it, The Forever War

173 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:51:07pm

Middle class tax cut passed the House goes to Senate.

174 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:51:34pm

re: #173 Amory Blaine

Finally the Democrats grow some balls.

175 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:51:39pm

re: #173 Amory Blaine

where it will die a slow horrible death.

176 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:51:47pm

re: #153 Fozzie Bear

This right here, is the source of fundamentalism. Religion is and always has been at odds with science, because both religion and science offer explanations of how the world works, and how things came to be. One is right, the other wrong, so there is an absolutely inevitable conflict there.

Flame away.

For the lowbrow in the religious world absolutely. It need not be that way though.

177 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:52:01pm

re: #174 Obdicut

House Dems have balls, it’s the senate ones I wonder about.

178 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:52:17pm

re: #164 LudwigVanQuixote

Just because, I have yet to meet an atheist who doesn’t have theist morals.

I have yet to meet a theist who doesn’t have the same evolved inhibitions atheists have.

179 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:52:24pm

re: #171 Slumbering Behemoth

Name one that did not exist before the Abrahamic Tradition.

All people have the same value at birth.

180 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:52:39pm

re: #163 LudwigVanQuixote

Of course. In some ways, their effort was better. They got the details about sound right on the money, and they were dead on about kinetic kills being a devastating weapon in space. However, the design of a viper is a legacy from the original series. A starfury is the first and only SF fighter I have ever seen that was from just looking at it absolutely bred, form and function to the actual physics involved.

NASA asked the B5 team if they could use the Starfury design for some of their projects. The B5 team gave permission, but only if they kept the name Starfury intact.

181 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:53:06pm

re: #171 Slumbering Behemoth

Name one that did not exist before the Abrahamic Tradition.

Men and women are in essence of the same value.

182 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:53:41pm

re: #168 LudwigVanQuixote

No not at all. Just an observation.

I will pass on performing the exercise.

I was raised Catholic, and never felt the need to toss the moral baby out with the mythology bathwater.

183 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:54:19pm

re: #171 Slumbering Behemoth

Name one that did not exist before the Abrahamic Tradition.

All mankind is related and hence harming other men is harming your family.

184 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:54:38pm

re: #182 wrenchwench

I will pass on performing the exercise.

I was raised Catholic, and never felt the need to toss the moral baby out with the mythology bathwater.

I was raised with no religion.

185 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:54:57pm

re: #179 LudwigVanQuixote

All people have the same value at birth.

re: #181 LudwigVanQuixote

Men and women are in essence of the same value.

And you’re certain that these did not exist before Abrahamic Tradition? That they were “enshrined” in it first?

186 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:55:12pm

Hmm new life form or middle class tax cut?

I could use brakes on my car….

187 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:55:13pm

re: #183 LudwigVanQuixote

All mankind is related and hence harming other men is harming your family.

But I don’t really like some people in my family.

188 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:55:15pm

re: #177 Dreggas

House Dems have balls, it’s the senate ones I wonder about.

Balls are irrelevant when any one of them can unilaterally block any piece of legislation. The problem with the senate is structural and institutional.

189 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:56:01pm

re: #181 LudwigVanQuixote

Is this really the right thread to lecture the atheists about how they’re all really just following theistic morals?

I respect your right to have and follow your religion. We’re all humans. We all use the same faculties to derive our morality and ethics.

Why not leave it at that?

190 RadicalModerate  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:56:33pm

re: #154 Amory Blaine

Only 2 GOP votes for middle class tax cut so far.

It’s up to three now.

Remember, this is the Republican Party who campaigned as being on the side of “Middle-class America”. These same party members who held every bill hostage until they got their tax cuts for people making over a quarter million dollars a year.

On the next congressional election coming in two years, EVERY Democrat running should post an image of the House vote currently occurring, as well as the upcoming vote for the $250K-earners tax cut exposing the Republicans for the liars that they are.

191 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:56:51pm

re: #183 LudwigVanQuixote

All mankind is related and hence harming other men is harming your family.

I’m sure there are many parts within the bible where God himself contradicts this. But we could be talking about different things. I am not nearly as well versed in this theology as you.

192 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:56:55pm

re: #185 Slumbering Behemoth

re: #181 LudwigVanQuixote

And you’re certain that these did not exist before Abrahamic Tradition? That they were “enshrined” in it first?

If some earlier Culture had those ideas in their religion, then it still would not change the main point. However, I am not aware of an earlier culture that said such things.

193 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:56:57pm

re: #189 Obdicut

To be fair, I went “there” before LVQ did. However, that’s not going to change any minds regardless. My bad.

194 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:57:05pm

re: #190 RadicalModerate

It’s up to three now.

Remember, this is the Republican Party who campaigned as being on the side of “Middle-class America”. These same party members who held every bill hostage until they got their tax cuts for people making over a quarter million dollars a year.

On the next congressional election coming in two years, EVERY Democrat running should post an image of the House vote currently occurring, as well as the upcoming vote for the $250K-earners tax cut exposing the Republicans for the liars that they are.

It just passed.

195 albusteve  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:57:21pm

re: #185 Slumbering Behemoth

re: #181 LudwigVanQuixote

And you’re certain that these did not exist before Abrahamic Tradition? That they were “enshrined” in it first?

of course he can’t, no matter how many posts it takes

196 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:57:23pm

Well, this article is getting folks’ attention. On of my Twitter followers, to whom I’d never replied directly until a few seconds ago, just flipped out over it: “Oh Hell No!”

197 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:57:24pm

re: #183 LudwigVanQuixote

All mankind is related and hence harming other men is harming your family.


…you’ve never met my cousin….Willis….
/

198 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:58:08pm

re: #184 Varek Raith

I was raised with no religion.

I knew a family when I was a kid that was raising their kids to select their own religion. That was the weirdest thing I’d ever heard of, up to that point.

199 webevintage  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:58:43pm

re: #174 Obdicut

Finally the Democrats grow some balls.

The House has done a fine job the last 2 years, it is the Senate where bills go to die.

200 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:58:47pm

re: #198 wrenchwench

I knew a family when I was a kid that was raising their kids to select their own religion. That was the weirdest thing I’d ever heard of, up to that point.

And quite possibly the dumbest. “Choose your mental prison, son.”

201 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:58:56pm

re: #189 Obdicut

Is this really the right thread to lecture the atheists about how they’re all really just following theistic morals?

I respect your right to have and follow your religion. We’re all humans. We all use the same faculties to derive our morality and ethics.

Why not leave it at that?

I’m sorry Obdi. I am not trying to lecture.

I know it seems that way. Wrenchwench really said it well about not throwing out the moral baby.

In threads where religious nuts are religious nuts, it makes all believers look really stupid. I want people to remember that is not always so, inherently. I suppose it is a little defensive.

202 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 12:59:13pm

re: #184 Varek Raith

I was raised with no religion.

And I certainly don’t believe you aren’t moral because you were raised without religion. You seem pretty nice, as far as I can tell on here.

:)

204 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:00:13pm

re: #202 wrenchwench

And I certainly don’t believe you aren’t moral because you were raised without religion. You seem pretty nice, as far as I can tell on here.

:)

Nope, I’m eeevil.
Damn Ewoks.
:P

205 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:00:44pm

re: #200 Fozzie Bear

And quite possibly the dumbest. “Choose your mental prison, son.”

Hmm, I could’ve sworn I was pretty open-minded, but I guess not.

206 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:01:10pm

re: #204 Varek Raith

Nope, I’m eeevil.
Damn Ewoks.
:P

Seriously, you Sith need to step up your game if your minions can be taken out by teddy bears with rocks.

207 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:01:19pm

Pfffft. what a huge waste of taxpayer money. Studying bacteria, probably their mating habits too. Of course they found them in California. Liberal bacteria!!!!!!!Give me my Noahs Ark theme park NOW!!!!!!!!

208 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:01:35pm

re: #201 LudwigVanQuixote

No problem. There’s nothing inherent in a belief in religion that prevents people from rational thought or good decision-making; obviously, as the vast majority of human progress has come from believers, and atheism has always been a rare thing.

But please do consider when touting the virtues of the Abrahamic virtues, that there are plenty of cultures that never had contact with the Abrahamic tradition that managed to have some very nice morals and ethics of their own.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

209 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:01:45pm

re: #201 LudwigVanQuixote

It’s an argument that will exist so long as both religion and science exist, and so long as some religious people remain who refuse to discard theology when it conflicts with observation, and so long as some dogged materialists remain who insist that the physical world has physical laws.

Long term, religion can’t hope to be anything more than a moral and philosophical framework. Anything more than that, and it will forever be in retreat.

210 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:01:46pm

re: #201 LudwigVanQuixote

In threads where religious nuts are religious nuts, it makes all believers look really stupid. I want people to remember that is not always so, inherently.

I don’t think that of you, nor many of the observant Lizards here. Not at all. Y’all cool and level headed in my book.

211 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:02:34pm

Anyway, I am out, I really have to run!

212 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:02:42pm

re: #206 LudwigVanQuixote

Seriously, you Sith need to step up your game if your minions can be taken out by teddy bears with rocks.

George freaking Lucas.
Sheesh!
The Force is bacteria.
Bullshit!

213 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:03:14pm

re: #202 wrenchwench
Really??
….Varek Raith sounds…ah… kinda scary!!
/ lol

214 RadicalModerate  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:03:31pm

re: #11 Shiplord Kirel

They’ll also have a Tower of Babel and the Parting of the Red Sea:

# The Tower of Babel: Over 100 feet tall, this structure depicts how the tower may have looked after its completion. Guests enter a highly themed interior and weave along a path that introduces exhibits on the origination of languages and people groups (so-called “races”).

No doubt this exhibit will be a favorite of the Stormfronters.

215 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:03:38pm

re: #210 Slumbering Behemoth

I don’t think that of you, nor many of the observant Lizards here. Not at all. Y’all cool and level headed in my book.

The ability to have coherent conversations with people who believe differently than you, showing respect towards them and their beliefs is the mark of not being a religious nut.

216 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:04:30pm

OT but Mullen smacks down McCain

Money quote:

“With all due respect, Mr. Chairman and Sen. McCain, it is true that, as chairman, I am not in charge of troops. But I have commanded three ships, a carrier battle group and two fleets. And I was most recently a service chief myself. For more than 40 years I have made decisions that affected and even risked the lives of young men and women.

“You do not have to agree with me on this issue. But don’t think for one moment that I haven’t carefully considered the impact of the advice I give on those who will have to live with the decisions that that advice informs. I would not recommend repeal of this law if I did not believe in my soul that it was the right thing to do for our military, for our nation and for our collective honor.”

217 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:05:03pm

re: #206 LudwigVanQuixote

Seriously, you Sith need to step up your game if your minions can be taken out by teddy bears with rocks.

The Empire’s most feared troops never learned how to set up a defense in depth or to establish clear fields of fire.

218 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:05:13pm

re: #216 Dreggas

Damn fine words, in service of a damn fine notion.

219 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:05:25pm

Breaking news: The GOP War against Salad has failed
Nutrition Bill Passes

220 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:05:44pm

re: #212 Varek Raith

George freaking Lucas.
Sheesh!
The Force is bacteria.
Bullshit!

So I guess the Jedi are anti-vaxxers then.

221 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:05:51pm

All these Mega Churches with the theme parks,security for a PASTOR…Limo’s…
What ever happened to the “Church” taking care of the
poor and infirm,widows and orphans??
Assholes!

222 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:06:32pm

re: #219 Killgore Trout

Breaking news: The GOP War against Salad has failed
Nutrition Bill Passes

Lettuce be free!
Government, leaf us alone!

223 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:06:47pm

re: #221 reloadingisnotahobby

Jesus will save them.

//

224 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:07:09pm

re: #222 Fozzie Bear

Beet me to it.

225 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:07:15pm

re: #221 reloadingisnotahobby

All these Mega Churches with the theme parks,security for a PASTOR…Limo’s…
What ever happened to the “Church” taking care of the
poor and infirm,widows and orphans??
Assholes!

If God really cared about them, they wouldn’t be widows or oprhans, the dirty sinners.
/

226 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:07:21pm

re: #222 Fozzie Bear

we must be free from government cucumberance!

227 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:07:32pm

re: #222 Fozzie Bear

Lettuce be free!
Government, leaf us alone!

*lobs half a tomato at Fozzie Bear.*

(I ate the other half.)

228 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:08:02pm

CNN: House extends Bush-era tax cuts for families making under $250,000 a year; Senate GOP pushing extension for all incomes.
Watch the paint dry here….
[Link: www.cnn.com…]

229 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:08:23pm

re: #221 reloadingisnotahobby

All these Mega Churches with the theme parks,security for a PASTOR…Limo’s…
What ever happened to the “Church” taking care of the
poor and infirm,widows and orphans??
Assholes!

Prosperity theology happened.

Any group that thinks a book is the word of God and thus absolutely literally true, is going to be nuts from the outset. You can’t get away from that. Once you believe that, then its a selective quote-mining festival and all logic and reason go out the window.

230 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:09:45pm

re: #228 Killgore Trout

Watch the paint dry here…

Did you get some on the walls?

231 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:11:07pm

They could fix this food B.S.!
Stop eating FROZEN COOKIE DOUGH….
WASH THE LETTUCE and SPINACH!!
Fucking idiots! ….and they wonder why their sick and fat!

232 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:11:07pm

re: #228 Killgore Trout

CNN: House extends Bush-era tax cuts for families making under $250,000 a year; Senate GOP pushing extension for all incomes.
Watch the paint dry here…
[Link: www.cnn.com…]

I think that’s part of the problem with the US. Our legislative process is so incredibly boring to watch that nobody follows it.

We need more dueling, and use of live grenades on the floor of the senate.

233 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:11:50pm

re: #230 wrenchwench

Did you get some on the walls?

I’m taking a break from sanding. I should start slopping paint in another hour or so. It’s kinda fun, I just hate doing it in a rush.

234 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:11:52pm

re: #219 Killgore Trout

Damn. And thus, my dreams of thoroughly malnourished American children are squashed.

///curses, foiled again!

235 Stanley Sea  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:12:12pm

Ha! That Pelosi is such a failure!

236 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:12:15pm

re: #234 Slumbering Behemoth

Damn. And thus, my dreams of thoroughly malnourished American children are squashed.

///curses, foiled again!

lol

237 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:12:39pm

re: #235 Stanley Sea

Ha! That Pelosi is such a failure!

Yeah, it’s starting to look like a bad day for wingnuts.

238 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:13:18pm

re: #230 wrenchwench

Did you get some on the walls?

He’s taking a break, he says, yeah, uh-huh. Just like I did, when it took me 6 months to get the painting finished?
re: #233 Killgore Trout

I’m taking a break from sanding. I should start slopping paint in another hour or so. It’s kinda fun, I just hate doing it in a rush.

239 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:13:20pm

re: #231 reloadingisnotahobby

They could fix this food B.S.!
Stop eating FROZEN COOKIE DOUGH…
WASH THE LETTUCE and SPINACH!!
Fucking idiots! …and they wonder why their sick and fat!

Never! Again I say, NEVER! You can have my cookie dough when you pry it from my pudgy, chocolate-smeared fingers!

240 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:13:26pm

House Democrats: no tax cut extension over $250,000


Congressional Democrats rammed a bill through the House of Representatives Thursday permanently extending the Bush-era tax cuts only for families making $250,000 a year or less.

It would maintain the current Alternative Minimum Tax limit for two years.

The measure, which passed on a sharply polarized 234-188 vote, would allow the Bush tax cuts to expire after December 31 for the wealthiest Americans. Most Democrats backed the bill, while most Republicans opposed it.

241 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:13:47pm

re: #238 reine.de.tout

;)

242 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:13:55pm

re: #229 Fozzie Bear

Yes!…BUT!
The idea that they are benevolent institutions is WHY they are tax exempt!
Then BE BENEVOLENT!!! or what ever word works….

243 mojo9  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:14:05pm

What happened to the dinosaurs…

244 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:14:11pm

re: #239 EmmmieG

Never! Again I say, NEVER! You can have my cookie dough when you pry it from my pudgy, chocolate-smeared fingers!

Updinging that as I sit and eat my Snickers bar -

245 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:14:56pm

Gotta do some stuffs. Laters all.

246 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:15:16pm

re: #234 Slumbering Behemoth

Damn. And thus, my dreams of thoroughly malnourished American children are squashed.

///curses, foiled again!

You are mostly foiled by the kids and their parents. You can put veggies on their plates, but you can’t make them eat them. Unless you are their mother, in which case you can try using the evil eye and the promise of a cookie later.

(I saw the most appalling statistic the other day. 84% of preschoolers will be taken to fast food this week. What are their mothers thinking?)

247 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:15:19pm

House passes $4.5B child nutrition bill

The U.S. House of Representatives passed a $4.5 billion child nutrition bill on a 264-157 vote Thursday, sending the bill on to President Barack Obama.

Among other things, the bill would expand the school breakfast and lunch programs and would change nutritional standards for school cafeterias and vending machines, key to first lady Michelle Obama’s anti-obesity campaign.

248 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:15:37pm

Boehner’s response:

In a discussion with reporters at the Capitol Thursday, Boehner characterized the decision, made amidst ongoing bipartisan discussions to find a compromise on the tax plan, as a political ploy that would only complicate the process.

“I’m trying to catch my breath so I don’t refer to this maneuver going on today as chicken crap, alright?” Boehner said, according to Politico. “But this is nonsense. Alright? The election was one month ago. We’re 23 months from the next election and the political games have already started, trying to set up the next election. We had an honest conversation at the White House about the challenges that we face to get out of here and to take care of what the American people expect of us. And they roll this vote out today, it really is just what you think I was going to say anyway.”

A tax bill is just “political games” to him. The GOP hasn’t even waited until the lame duck session is over to start plotting ways to lose horribly in 2012.

249 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:15:58pm

re: #233 Killgore Trout

I’m taking a break from sanding. I should start slopping paint in another hour or so. It’s kinda fun, I just hate doing it in a rush.

I always liked painting. I had a friend in Portland that I worked with on some jobs that he would set up. He had only one functional arm, so it was pretty sore at the end of the day. Kept me from complaining.

250 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:16:00pm

re: #239 EmmmieG
Your going to get salvinilla!!

..Ha!

251 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:17:23pm

re: #233 Killgore Trout

I’m taking a break from sanding. I should start slopping paint in another hour or so. It’s kinda fun, I just hate doing it in a rush.

This American Life got me through my last major painting job. NPR + mindless manual labor = somewhat stimulating manual labor.

252 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:17:34pm

re: #250 reloadingisnotahobby

Your going to get salvinilla!!

..Ha!

I’m more concerned about what I’m doing to my heart, since the cholesterol hits my heart every time, not just sometimes.

253 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:17:40pm

re: #240 Killgore Trout

the roll call on that will come in handy. “Rep ____ says he supports the middle class but voted against middle class tax cuts”

254 General Nimrod Bodfish  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:18:00pm

re: #232 Fozzie Bear

Like the Taiwanese?

Youtube Video

That might make CSPAN the most watched channel in television history!

255 mojo9  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:18:06pm

re: #246 EmmmieG

what’s the difference between broccolli and boogers? kids won’t eat broccolli.

256 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:21:39pm

re: #232 Fozzie Bear

I think cage matches would be sufficient. Or maybe something along the lines of a Taiwanese bill brawl.

Youtube Video

Either that, or Congress should adopt Slapsgiving.

257 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:22:13pm

Went back and read more comments….
So…Morgan Freeman ISN’T GOD???
………….Wow………..
I gotta go……

258 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:22:58pm

Okay spelling test to give. See you all later.

(You’ll know if this particular child ever hijacks my account by the way that every single word, including and & the, is misspelled.)

259 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:24:04pm

re: #258 EmmmieG

Okay spelling test to give. See you all later.

(You’ll know if this particular child ever hijacks my account by the way that every single word, including and & the, is misspelled.)

Selective Dyslexia??

260 deranged cat  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:24:16pm

anybody seen this yet? [Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

Tim Pawlenty (and others) pardons a guy in 2008 who was convicted of statutory rape on a 14 yr old (the guy was 19 at the time) in 1998. Turns out the guy got the girl pregnant and ended up marrying her.. and it turns out.. before, during and after the pardon, the guy had been sexually molesting his 6 yr old daughter, and all of this is blowing up in t-paws face.

the whole point of all this (besides the horrific story) is that Pawlenty’s presidential hopes are swirling down the drain.

261 prairiefire  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:27:22pm

Amazing christmas lights from The Daily Dish:[Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com…]

262 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:27:30pm

re: #260 deranged cat

You might even say his bridge is collapsing.

263 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:28:17pm

re: #260 deranged cat

anybody seen this yet? [Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

Tim Pawlenty (and others) pardons a guy in 2008 who was convicted of statutory rape on a 14 yr old (the guy was 19 at the time) in 1998. Turns out the guy got the girl pregnant and ended up marrying her.. and it turns out.. before, during and after the pardon, the guy had been sexually molesting his 6 yr old daughter, and all of this is blowing up in t-paws face.

the whole point of all this (besides the horrific story) is that Pawlenty’s presidential hopes are swirling down the drain.

Oh man. Honestly, that sucks for T-Paw, as much as I can’t stand him, because pardoning a 19/14 relationship, which resulted in marriage and a child, left at that, sounds like the right thing to do to me. I mean, T-Paw couldn’t have known about the molestation, really.

And yet, I’ll take what I can get if it gets another wacko off the stage. I just think thats the wrong way to get the wacko off the stage. I kind of feel bad for him, really.

264 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:28:33pm

re: #243 mojo9

What happened to the dinosaurs…

Adam and his sons discovered the dinos’ relationship to birds and learned that they taste like chicken. That was the end of them.

265 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:30:18pm

48 hour rule applies…
Sear/Craftsman bidding on ALL tooling for the Ark Incounter!
Estwing Ceo declines comment……….

266 Locker  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:30:34pm

re: #264 Shiplord Kirel

Adam and his sons discovered the dinos’ relationship to birds and learned that they taste like chicken. That was the end of them.

Nothing beats a good Brontosaurus Burger.

267 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:31:16pm

re: #266 Locker

Nothing beats a good Brontosaurus Apatosaurus Burger.


FTFY.
;)

268 Locker  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:31:52pm

re: #267 Varek Raith

FTFY.
;)

Tell it to Fred Flintstone.

269 jaunte  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:38:24pm

re: #264 Shiplord Kirel

Adam and his sons discovered the dinos’ relationship to birds and learned that they taste like chicken. That was the end of them.

KFD.

270 Lidane  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 1:57:04pm

re: #92 Varek Raith

I got as far as the first paragraph.

You got further than I did. The first sentence made me laugh and I quit reading.

271 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:03:32pm

re: #14 EmmmieG

I thought that Universal Studios in California already had a parting of the Red Sea? I swear they did.

A friend of mine helped organize an interfaith conference that, for reasons that still escape me, took place at Disneyworld.

The contact person was very helpful, and suggested special effects. Wouldn’t it be cool if the keynote speaker entered walking on water?

My friend, who does try to have a sense of humor about her piety managed to smile and said that the keynote speaker was Jewish.

“OK, then she could PART the waters!” said the Disney guy.

They declined.

272 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:03:57pm

re: #17 NJDhockeyfan

OT:

My kids are on the way home on the bus. Looks like those guys had no weapons, just weed & alcohol. They caught another guy but the driver is still on the loose. They will get him, they have his truck and probably know where he lives.

I feel so much better.

Hug ‘em for us.

273 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:05:54pm

re: #38 Dreggas

some say that the story of Noah was basically absorbed from the Sumerian/Babylonian epic of Gilgamesh which has a similar flood story. They think it was absorbed by the Israelites who were enslaved in Babylon.

Or, simply inherited by them as part of the whole Semitic mythological cycle. There are some distinct similarities—note the moment when Ishtar holds her necklace up and uses it as a pledge not to allow the earth to be destroyed again.

274 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:11:11pm

re: #271 SanFranciscoZionist

A friend of mine helped organize an interfaith conference that, for reasons that still escape me, took place at Disneyworld.

The contact person was very helpful, and suggested special effects. Wouldn’t it be cool if the keynote speaker entered walking on water?

My friend, who does try to have a sense of humor about her piety managed to smile and said that the keynote speaker was Jewish.

“OK, then she could PART the waters!” said the Disney guy.

They declined.

My kid sister started making little magazines when we were playing “mail” (she made junk mail too) and one of them was a religious magazine. On the cover was the headline: “Charlton Heston Shows: How to Part Your Swimming Pool.”

275 Decatur Deb  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:21:47pm

OK, “Burn in Hell” rates another trip to the tip jar.

276 APox  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:30:57pm

re: #159 LudwigVanQuixote

For some other time, because I have to go, I challenge you to name one moral you have, that you hold dear, that you do not find in the Abrahamic Tradition.

The challenge is not about what you think is wrong about that Tradition. The challenge is name one moral you hold dear, that is not explicitly there.

So you are asserting that all morals are derived from your religion, specifically? That is just a load. Morals are going to vary from culture to culture, and many morals are very relative. There are some morals, that I would think are ‘universal’ such as the belief that people should not murder. You don’t have to have any type of god to tell you why that is wrong. In fact, the fact that there are so many different cultures, with so many different gods, that all say that murder is wrong somewhere in their texts is just evidence of this.

I’d say also that morals are inherently a center point of all religions, because God does want you to act in a specific way that is pleasing him/her/it…. So it goes without saying that you can probably safely assume that just about every moral dilemma has been brought up at some point in the 3,000 years of religious conversation.

The idea that you can’t be moral, or derive common morals without the assistance of some religion is absurd.

277 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:39:52pm

re: #179 LudwigVanQuixote

All people have the same value at birth.

Really? The Canaanites who God ordered his chosen people to slaughter so their land could be taken had the same value as Hebrews?

278 Locker  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:42:19pm

re: #159 LudwigVanQuixote

For some other time, because I have to go, I challenge you to name one moral you have, that you hold dear, that you do not find in the Abrahamic Tradition.

The challenge is not about what you think is wrong about that Tradition. The challenge is name one moral you hold dear, that is not explicitly there.

Hmm this could be fun…

- Bros before hoes?
- Never pass an beat bowl?
- Share your wife before she cheats on you and get to boink her cute friends in the process?
- The Dallas Cowboys are the Debol?
- Guilt and manipulation are lame?

279 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 2:50:04pm

re: #48 Charles

It’s going to be pretty hard to maintain that fiction, when Answers in Genesis is an explicitly Christian fundamentalist group that very actively proselytizes for the cause of creationism.

I think a strong case can be made that this is a clear violation of the Establishment Clause.

Nobody has more contempt for these morons than me, but this isn’t an establishment case. Kentucky isn’t giving AiG money, only tax credits. AiG is being granted the same economic incentives anyone else with a large business development project that promises to create jobs would.
Plus, its well established that states can exempt churches from taxation. Beshear is running for reelection and unemployment is 10% in Kentucky; he would give tax incentives to a satanic theme park if it would generate jobs.

280 Spocomptonite  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 3:12:27pm

re: #231 reloadingisnotahobby

They could fix this food B.S.!
Stop eating FROZEN COOKIE DOUGH…
WASH THE LETTUCE and SPINACH!!
Fucking idiots! …and they wonder why their sick and fat!

I’ll never stop eating frozen cookie dough. NEVAR!!! I eat it straight from the pail; it’s better than a carton of ice cream!

281 happy_days  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 5:48:38pm

900 Jobs and a completion date in 4 years time!

Now if I google “How long did Noah take to build the ark” and “Who helped Noah build the ark” it appears that the bible is a bit silent on this but people reckon it was a solo effort for about 100-120 years starting when Noah was around 500 years old.

So if Noah can build an ark in 120 man years at the age of 500 all by himself , how come it is goint to take 360 man years (3 times longer) with more youthful resources who are armed with 21st century heavy machinery and power tools?

If these guys are out to prove the historical accuracy of the Ark story, then I think they need to get Mythbusters in to prove to them how it can be done in Noah’s timeframe using the tools in Noah’s shed.

282 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 6:03:05pm

re: #279 aagcobb

Beshear is running for reelection and unemployment is 10% in Kentucky; he would give tax incentives to a satanic theme park if it would generate jobs.

I seriously doubt that. And I mean, very seriously doubt that. Unless you’re talking about an alternate universe Kentucky in which satanism is the dominant religion.

If you watch the video it’s crystal clear that this is an explicitly religious project — an explicitly fundamentalist Christian project. Beshear is supporting it because it appeals to the fundamentalist demographic, and he thinks he’ll be able to milk those rubes for lots of money.

And the pathetic, sad part of it is that he might be right.

283 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 2, 2010 6:41:20pm

re: #282 Charles

I seriously doubt that. And I mean, very seriously doubt that. Unless you’re talking about an alternate universe Kentucky in which satanism is the dominant religion.

If you watch the video it’s crystal clear that this is an explicitly religious project — an explicitly fundamentalist Christian project. Beshear is supporting it because it appeals to the fundamentalist demographic, and he thinks he’ll be able to milk those rubes for lots of money.

And the pathetic, sad part of it is that he might be right.

I exaggerated slightly. Beshear is the same governor who ran for office on the issue of legalizing casino gambling at race tracks, which many fundies consider the equivalent of a satanic theme park. As far as milking the rubes goes, he is absolutely right. The Creation Museum has been a smashing success, and the addition of the Ark Park will make Northern Kentucky the Orlando, Florida of fundies.


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