Note to Rick Perry: Teaching Creationism in Public Schools is Illegal

Just a small technicality
Wingnuts • Views: 26,912

Steve Benen makes a good point here, about Rick Perry’s statement that “in Texas we teach both creationism and evolution in our public schools:”

Perry may have no idea what goes on in Texas’ public schools, but if they’re teaching “both creationism and evolution,” they’re violating the law. It’s not even a gray area — the Supreme Court has already struck down a law that called for “balanced treatment for creation-science and evolution-science in public school instruction,” concluding that the law violated the separation of church and state. Teaching religion in science class is illegal under the First Amendment.

I’d also note, however, that Rick Perry knows full well what goes on in Texas’ public schools; in fact, as we’ve been writing about for years at LGF, Perry is responsible for appointing a hardcore young Earth creationist, dentist Don McLeroy, as chairman of the Texas State Board of Education — twice.

Rick Perry’s not just talking when he says schools teach creationism in Texas; he’s an activist who’s been trying with some success to make it happen.

Also see

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263 comments
1 Kragar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:34:08pm

Texas ain't going to listen to no black robed shadow cabal!

2 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:37:43pm

It's simple to me. If you want creationism taught, either teach it your kids yourself or enroll them in a school that teaches it. You cannot expect a public school to teach Christian scripture not just in a science class but period. Now if you want to teach it in a comparative religions class, that's fine but the fact of the matter is that evolution is science and creationism is not. I cannot believe we're still debating this nearly 90 years after Scopes.

3 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:38:00pm

This is supposedly Rick Perry's Texas A&M transcript. If it is, he was a C and D average student.

4 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:38:29pm

a hardcore young Earth creationist, dentist Don McLeroy

i call on the devil to LEAVE this mouth! - abscess BE GONE!

5 jaunte  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:39:47pm

re: #3 Charles

A 'C' in PE. Wow.

6 Kragar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:39:47pm

re: #3 Charles

This is supposedly Rick Perry's Texas A&M transcript. If it is, he was a C and D average student.

[Link: www.scribd.com...]

But he was a cheerleader. You can't take that away from him.

7 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:39:54pm

Notice the redesigned right sidebar with more room for the featured and recent Pages...

8 HoosierHoops  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:42:03pm

re: #3 Charles

This is supposedly Rick Perry's Texas A&M transcript. If it is, he was a C and D average student.

[Link: www.scribd.com...]

He was also a yeller in College..A boy cheerleader..So I guessing he didn't have much in Athletic chops during College..

9 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:42:25pm

re: #3 Charles

This is supposedly Rick Perry's Texas A&M transcript. If it is, he was a C and D average student.

[Link: www.scribd.com...]

Looks legit to me and that he did poorly in his major and as a whole.

10 Lidane  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:42:52pm

re: #3 Charles

This is supposedly Rick Perry's Texas A&M transcript. If it is, he was a C and D average student.

[Link: www.scribd.com...]

He got C's in American History and pretty much every science course he took, except Organic Chemistry II, which he failed. He also got a D in Economics.

This means he fits right in with the teabaggers. They don't know shit about history, economics, or science either. =P

11 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:43:13pm

Okay, I can't touch the cheerleader stuff since my grandfather was a cheerleader for Pitt :D. But it s funny since Perry's been compared to Bush who also did some of that at Yale.

12 jaunte  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:44:37pm

re: #10 Lidane

This means he fits right in with the teabaggers. They don't know shit about history, economics, or science either. =P

They don't care that he knows anything, like they don't care that teaching creationism in public schools is illegal. It seems to be a desirable feature.

13 Lidane  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:44:56pm

re: #6 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But he was a cheerleader. You can't take that away from him.

Oh, but you can't call him a cheerleader, at least anywhere near an Aggie. He was a Yell Leader, which is somehow totally different.

14 jaunte  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:45:28pm

re: #13 Lidane

Calling it 'yelling' makes the activity completely masculine.

15 Four More Tears  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:46:58pm

re: #13 Lidane

Oh, but you can't call him a cheerleader, at least anywhere near an Aggie. He was a Yell Leader, which is somehow totally different.

Yes. And intelligent design and creationism are "different."

16 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:47:24pm

"Pre-veterinary medicine" You can't get into veterinarian school with those grades. I've heard it's more competitive than med school.

Oh, well. Politics it is, then.

17 Lidane  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:48:00pm

re: #14 jaunte

Calling it 'yelling' makes the activity completely masculine.

Considering that there's never been a female Yell Leader at Texas A&M, you might be on to something.

18 HoosierHoops  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:49:18pm

re: #16 wrenchwench

"Pre-veterinary medicine" You can't get into veterinarian school with those grades. I've heard it's more competitive than med school.

Oh, well. Politics it is, then.

What choice did he have? The NFL doesn't draft cheerleaders..
/

19 mythicknight  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:50:22pm

Those ignorant of science are doomed to teach ignorance...

20 RanchTooth  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:50:27pm

What would be important to note from his college transcripts is the number of summer semesters he took (especially at the end) that he took in order to graduate... wonder why. And then why he took fluff classes like "Animal Breeding" in order to get the credits he needed. Geez.

Also, I hate that he got a "D" in Organic Chem I, but a "B" in the Lab Class... probably found a good lab partner. =P

21 Kragar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:50:57pm

re: #13 Lidane

Oh, but you can't call him a cheerleader, at least anywhere near an Aggie. He was a Yell Leader, which is somehow totally different.

Screw the Aggies.

22 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:51:39pm

Pretty awesome, even for those neutorically obsessed with classifiying ways in which to identify others being wrong: [Link: www.fallacyfiles.org...]

I am stealing all of these from [Link: bellcurved.com...] btw

23 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:51:55pm

re: #7 Charles

Notice the redesigned right sidebar with more room for the featured and recent Pages...

Fortunately I still have an old one loaded, so I can see what an improvement it is. Nice!

24 Gus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:52:00pm

How can he get away with getting an F grade in organic chemistry. It's Texas A & M for crying out loud. The "A" is for agriculture. Organic chemistry is related to agriculture. They have funded research for National Institutes of Health and the National Science Foundation amongst many other government agencies. An F in organic chemistry? And a D in economics from the guy that wants to "fix the economy?"

25 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:52:29pm

re: #22 000G

Pretty awesome, even for those notneutorically obsessed with classifiying ways in which to identify others being wrong: [Link: www.fallacyfiles.org...]

PIMF

26 Lidane  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:53:06pm

Cue the wingnut head asplosions in 3...2...1...

POPE STRIKES PROGRESSIVE ECONOMIC MESSAGE, CALLS FOR END TO ‘SELF-REGULATION’

Pope Pope Benedict XVI arrived in Spain today calling for a more equitable, fair, and regulated economy, saying, “[T]he economy cannot be measured only by maximization of profit but rather according to the common good.” As American conservatives call for ever more deregulation, the pontiff said the marketplace “cannot function as a self-regulated economy.” Benedict explained his economic views more fully in a 2009 treatise, which called for protections for “labour unions — which have always been encouraged and supported by the Church,” the elimination of world hunger through “wealth redistribution,” the protection of the “natural environment” — “God’s gift to everyone” — from unchecked economic expansion, and a strengthened “family of nations,” like the U.N. with “real teeth.”

27 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:53:10pm

re: #20 RanchTooth

What would be important to note from his college transcripts is the number of summer semesters he took (especially at the end) that he took in order to graduate... wonder why. And then why he took fluff classes like "Animal Breeding" in order to get the credits he needed. Geez.

Also, I hate that he got a "D" in Organic Chem I, but a "B" in the Lab Class... probably found a good lab partner. =P

I got a "C" in Organic Chem I and an "A" in the associated Lab Class. The experiments are a lot more fun and interesting than all the associated book work. No surprise to see a split like that.

28 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:54:30pm

re: #26 Lidane

Cue the wingnut head asplosions in 3...2...1...

POPE STRIKES PROGRESSIVE ECONOMIC MESSAGE, CALLS FOR END TO ‘SELF-REGULATION’

He's obviously a Soros plant #wingnut#

29 Gus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:54:46pm

re: #26 Lidane

Cue the wingnut head asplosions in 3...2...1...

POPE STRIKES PROGRESSIVE ECONOMIC MESSAGE, CALLS FOR END TO ‘SELF-REGULATION’

And cue the anti-Catholic Free-Market-Jesus rhetoric.

30 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:55:52pm

re: #26 Lidane

protections for “labour unions — which have always been encouraged and supported by the Church,”


Wanna bet?

31 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:57:48pm

Most classes today make the lab and lecture one grade. It's what the environmental science class I am taking in the fall is gonna be like.

32 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:57:51pm

re: #26 Lidane

Benedict explained his economic views more fully in a 2009 treatise, which called for protections for “labour unions — which have always been encouraged and supported by the Church,” the elimination of world hunger through “wealth redistribution,” the protection of the “natural environment” — “God’s gift to everyone” — from unchecked economic expansion, and a strengthened “family of nations,” like the U.N. with “real teeth.”

But unchecked family expansion is required. Natural Family Planning is not good for the natural environment, unless abortion is allowed as a backup.

33 KingKenrod  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:58:12pm

Nice of Perry to stupidly flaunt this. It proves that intelligent design supporters are well aware ID is nothing more than repackaged creationism.

34 Lidane  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:59:02pm

re: #30 000G

Wanna bet?

Heh. Yeah, that's a bit of revisionism by the Pope. And there's plenty to criticize, since I'm hardly a Benedict fan.

Still, the rest of it, especially his comments about the free market, should be enough to send the wingnuts into apoplexy again.

35 Kragar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:59:10pm

AFA Using Perry's Prayer Rally Mailing List To Mobilize Christian Voters


One of the standard claims from organizers of Rick Perry's "The Response" prayer event was that the event was going to be non-political, so that any criticism about mixing church and state was totally unfounded.

So maybe they can explain why the American Family Association is now sending out this email to everyone who registered to attend "The Response," urging them to get active politically and "imagine the impact we could make on the future of America if these Christians made their voices heard in the voting booth":

36 Gus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:59:20pm

Organizers of The Response push voter mobilization
Mark Corcoran - August 18, 2011

I just got an email from Don Wildmon, Founder of American Family Association (AFA). You might know AFA as the bigoted and controversial sponsor of Rick Perry's The Response who in November 2010 was named a Hate Group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

The email from AFA confirms what many have said for months. Rick Perry's The Response was nothing more than a political rally disguised as a Christian prayer event.

 The email asks reads to join Champion the Vote (CTV), a voting mobilization organization that is dedicated to fighting for and supporting candidates who advocate issues such as anti-choice, anti-marriage equality, public prayer and involving God in government.

CTV's stated goal in the email is to "mobilize 5 million unregistered conservative Christians to register and vote according to the Biblical worldview in 2012

"

Continue reading...

37 philosophus invidius  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 1:59:38pm

If you have kids, I highly recommend the They Might Be Giants antedote to the Rick Perry's of the world.

Science is Real!

38 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:00:08pm

re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

AFA Using Perry's Prayer Rally Mailing List To Mobilize Christian Voters

apolitical prayer eh.

39 Gus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:01:37pm

re: #38 HappyWarrior

apolitical prayer eh.

There is not such thing as political Christianity! The only religion that's political is Islam.

//

40 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:03:26pm

Honestly for all the RCC and Benedict's warts, and believe me that's a lot, they don't seem to have the screw the poor attitude that AFA Christian like groups seem to have. And I am saying this as someone who is very critical of the church for its positions on gays, abortion, birth control, child abuse handling, etc.

41 Olsonist  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:06:00pm

re: #40 HappyWarrior

I can't agree with you on that. I see the RCC as a tax only on the poor and middle class, completely regressive.

42 Atlas Fails  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:07:27pm

re: #26 Lidane

Cue the wingnut head asplosions in 3...2...1...

POPE STRIKES PROGRESSIVE ECONOMIC MESSAGE, CALLS FOR END TO ‘SELF-REGULATION’

Now if only we can get him to come around on gays.

43 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:12:45pm

re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

AFA Using Perry's Prayer Rally Mailing List To Mobilize Christian Voters

That should result in a few tax exemptions being revoked.

It won't, but it should.

44 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:21:59pm

For your afternoon listening pleasure (nobody had time for it in an earlier thread. It is still pertinent.)

45 Ming  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:24:33pm

Great. Iran's schoolchildren will learn about uranium hexaflouride, quarks, and virus RNA. America's schoolchildren will learn about Jonah the Whale, Noah's Ark, and the Battle of Jericho. And while other countries are building businesses in the Arctic Rim, our schoolkids will be taught that the Arctic Rim doesn't exist, because the North Pole is still frozen solid.

46 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:25:05pm

Dear indie PC gamers of LGF: check this shit out [Link: store.steampowered.com...]

47 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:26:33pm

Awesome performance.

48 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:27:08pm

Sax player has the coolest shirt ever.

49 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:28:30pm

re: #36 Gus 802

Organizers of The Response push voter mobilization
Mark Corcoran - August 18, 2011

re: #35 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

AFA Using Perry's Prayer Rally Mailing List To Mobilize Christian Voters

Pages taken directly from Weyrich and Viguerie. Without those two miserable cons, there would be no Moral Majority, Christian Coalition, Eagle Forum, etc. They made church rolls into a major cash cow for the GOP.

50 HoosierHoops  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:28:45pm

There is a rumor going around that when Perry goes out he Karaokes this song...

51 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:33:34pm

re: #37 philosophus invidius

lol, just did TMBG at karaoke last night, well done

52 Lidane  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:36:01pm

re: #46 WindUpBird

Dear indie PC gamers of LGF: check this shit out [Link: store.steampowered.com...]

Bastion is also on the XBox Live Marketplace.

It's really fun. I played the demo the other day. Another game that's ridiculously fun? Fruit Ninja Kinect. It's a good workout. Hehe.

53 Robert O.  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:37:11pm

Read elsewhere: "Rick Perry's intelligence is a theory with gaps."

54 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:38:59pm

re: #48 Killgore Trout

Sax player has the coolest shirt ever.

Unfortunately, it was not allowed to leave the 70's.

55 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:41:40pm

re: #16 wrenchwench

"Pre-veterinary medicine" You can't get into veterinarian school with those grades. I've heard it's more competitive than med school.

Oh, well. Politics it is, then.

Veterinary schools are cutthroat. One of the smartest young women I know got rejected in the first round. She took a year, did more coursework and volunteer work with animals--went to Central America and inoculated farm animals or something--and got into Davis on her second try. It was like climbing Everest.

56 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:42:10pm

A Tale of Two Texans

When Bush came to Austin, he held private meetings with each of the 181 state senators and representatives from both parties. He asked them what their legislative agenda included, shared what was on his radar and discussed how they might work together. An astonishing notion, cooperation, but in politics common sense often passes for genius.

Perry, though, was having none of that stinking compromise and kumbaya business. A coalition of hard-right conservatives had taken control of the Legislature, and they weren't interested in a governor who cut deals. But they didn't have to push Perry to the right-hand edge of their flat earth; he bravely led them.

W famously styled his politics with the brand of "compassionate conservatism." Perry's is more like kick-ass conservatism.

Bush might have contemplated reductions in health care for budget cuts and forced up your property taxes with a legislative shell game, but he would have at least felt bad about it. Perry would tell you either not to get sick or make enough money to buy your own damned health care and shut up and pay your property taxes because we need you to underwrite all the tax breaks we give corporations coming to Texas because they are going to make campaign donations.

The essential distinction between these two men is that Bush pushed ideas and policies that he didn't believe in and were politically expedient, but Perry believes the radical ideas driving the tea party movement and thinks compromise is a kind of terminal cancer.

57 Political Atheist  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:44:49pm

re: #2 HappyWarrior

It's simple to me. If you want creationism taught, either teach it your kids yourself or enroll them in a school that teaches it. You cannot expect a public school to teach Christian scripture not just in a science class but period. Now if you want to teach it in a comparative religions class, that's fine but the fact of the matter is that evolution is science and creationism is not. I cannot believe we're still debating this nearly 90 years after Scopes.

Comparative religion is thankfully rarely a topic for elementary school. I do wonder if they try to teach creationism at a university where the next room/building over is archaeology class. LOL. Imagine your thoughts as a student at home with homework from each.

I mean what grades are we really talking about in Texas anyway? Lets talk elementary/middle school grades a minute.

The answer is so obvious.... Bible school is for Sundays as in that day chosen for church, church lessons or events and a day of rest in the Christian tradition. Creationism is a religious lesson by sheer definition. It's from the Bible.

Public school is secular. No need to even address religion with the very young apart from obvious interactions as Jewish kids have differing holiday schedules from Christian kids and how to get along politely.

IMO Middle school is still kinda early for lessons about religion, apart from or legal and moral principle of religious tolerance.

58 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:45:02pm

re: #34 Lidane

Wanna bet?

Heh. Yeah, that's a bit of revisionism by the Pope. And there's plenty to criticize, since I'm hardly a Benedict fan.

Still, the rest of it, especially his comments about the free market, should be enough to send the wingnuts into apoplexy again.

As far as I can tell, the winguts cannot hear the Pope when he talks. I think it's a pitch thing--they are attuned to dogwhistles, and therefore the Pope only comes across as a deep rumble.

I know it may seem that they can hear him when he talks about the sanctity of life, but since they're only picking up about half of that, the 'before birth' but not the 'death penalty' bits, even that is clearly fading in and out, at the edge of the scale they can register.

59 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:47:15pm

Two members of the West Memphis Three to be released: [Link: www.tmz.com...]

60 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:49:42pm

re: #52 Lidane

Bastion is also on the XBox Live Marketplace.

It's really fun. I played the demo the other day. Another game that's ridiculously fun? Fruit Ninja Kinect. It's a good workout. Hehe.

I gotta rope someone with a kinect into letting me borrow one :D

61 Gus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:51:36pm

I can see the stalker tards were up to no good with the Tweeting again.

62 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:53:36pm

re: #61 Gus 802

I can see the stalker tards were up to no good with the Tweeting again.

that's what the block function is for! ^_^

63 jaunte  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:54:08pm

Gawker:

It’s Time to Freak Out Over Obama’s Annual Vacation Again
President Obama is beginning his third consecutive annual family vacation to Martha's Vineyard, in August, when literally nothing happens anywhere. On a scale from 10 to 10, how furious does this pretend to make you? Because it makes some people very pretend unhappy!
64 Gus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:55:17pm

re: #62 WindUpBird

that's what the block function is for! ^_^

Nah, this is something else. They use some kind of routine to bump the numbers up.

7 Confirmed Dead in Multiple Coordinated Terror Attacks in Southern Israel (503)

503 Tweets is next to impossible to get. The were doing this with someone else here. Bumped 'em up to over 1,000.

65 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:56:00pm

re: #63 jaunte

Gawker:

I cannot sleep, for knowing that the President is going to take his wife and two school-age daughters to Martha's Vineyard. There is a distinct possibility that they will have a cookout at some point, and he may buy the girls saltwater taffy. If this happens, my head will explode.

66 jaunte  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:56:20pm

re: #64 Gus 802

Somewhere an excel spreadsheet is being filled in.

67 Gus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:57:01pm

re: #66 jaunte

Somewhere an excel spreadsheet is being filled in.

Yeah. We're always being probed without knowing it.

//

68 Lidane  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 2:59:27pm

re: #59 WindUpBird

Two members of the West Memphis Three to be released: [Link: www.tmz.com...]

I'm confused. If they're admitting guilt, how are they being released?

I'm going to have to read more about this.

69 jaunte  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:04:14pm

re: #68 Lidane

Some local news:

JONESBORO, AR -

(WMC-TV) - The father of one of the boys brutally killed in West Memphis in 1993 told Action News 5 that two of the men convicted will be released during a hearing Friday.

Thursday afternoon, Action News 5 learned that all three men convicted in the infamous murder left a Super Max prison with all their belongings. The men were placed in the custody of Craighead County officers ahead of Friday's hearing in a Jonesboro courtroom.
[Link: www.wmctv.com...]

70 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:10:50pm

I hope IDF reserves are greased up and ready to go...some bad mojo over there, again

71 compound idaho  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:22:38pm

OH! NO! Woman arrested for stabbing lizard. Is everyone OK?

[Link: www.nbcbayarea.com...]

72 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:24:38pm

re: #71 compound idaho

OH! NO! Woman arrested for stabbing lizard. Is everyone OK?

[Link: www.nbcbayarea.com...]

I was stabbed in the gut once...did it to myself

73 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:26:21pm

re: #72 albusteve

I was stabbed in the gut once...did it to myself

By mistake, I hope.

74 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:26:54pm

re: #65 SanFranciscoZionist

I cannot sleep, for knowing that the President is going to take his wife and two school-age daughters to Martha's Vineyard. There is a distinct possibility that they will have a cookout at some point, and he may buy the girls saltwater taffy. If this happens, my head will explode.

I'm good as long as strawberry lemonade stays out of the picture.

If God intended strawberries and lemonades to cohabitate, they would grow on the same tree.

75 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:30:27pm

re: #68 Lidane

I'm confused. If they're admitting guilt, how are they being released?

I'm going to have to read more about this.

re: #68 Lidane

I'm confused. If they're admitting guilt, how are they being released?

I'm going to have to read more about this.

Reading the comments seems to put it together. Their cases are up for review, in light of DNA evidence that pretty much exonerates all three, in coming months. The police are scared shitless that, if the three are released, they'll sue the state for wrongful imprisonment. So, the offer is that they get out a few months early in exchange for guilty pleas, which would prevent them from filing said lawsuits upon release.

Sounds to me like CYA for a bunch of "good ol' boys."

76 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:30:55pm

re: #72 albusteve

I was stabbed in the gut once...did it to myself

Lots of people experiment with seppuku during college.

77 reine.de.tout  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:31:54pm

re: #16 wrenchwench

"Pre-veterinary medicine" You can't get into veterinarian school with those grades. I've heard it's more competitive than med school.

Oh, well. Politics it is, then.

Vet school is more competitive than med school (there are fewer of them, I think).

LSU has a vet school. If a student doesn't have a solid 4.0, they will not get in.

78 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:32:20pm

re: #73 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

By mistake, I hope.

it was supreme stupidity...scared me half to death tho

79 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:32:22pm

Last night, we had a standoff between an armed man in a long-stay hotel room and the SWAT team in San Rafael. They had to close the freeway (which is why my friend had to spend the night in on my living room floor, since she couldn't get back to San Anselmo.)

They reopened the freeway at 4:30, after hanging a sheet of steel over his window from a crane.

He was found dead in there today, the woman he was with is unharmed.

Weirdest, effing story, all the way through.

80 reine.de.tout  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:32:57pm

re: #75 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

re: #68 Lidane

Reading the comments seems to put it together. Their cases are up for review, in light of DNA evidence that pretty much exonerates all three, in coming months. The police are scared shitless that, if the three are released, they'll sue the state for wrongful imprisonment. So, the offer is that they get out a few months early in exchange for guilty pleas, which would prevent them from filing said lawsuits upon release.

Sounds to me like CYA for a bunch of "good ol' boys."

Does it say that the DNA exonerates them? Or that the DNA isn't sufficient to show they were there?

81 reine.de.tout  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:34:57pm

re: #80 reine.de.tout

Does it say that the DNA exonerates them? Or that the DNA isn't sufficient to show they were there?

nevermind.
They claim that the DNA exonerates them. No comment from the AG.

82 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:39:47pm

The 'disasterpieces' that are so awful they're hilarious at the Museum of Bad Art in Boston

Mana Lisa!...hahaha!

Read more: [Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

83 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:41:27pm

re: #77 reine.de.tout

Vet school is more competitive than med school (there are fewer of them, I think).

LSU has a vet school. If a student doesn't have a solid 4.0, they will not get in.

Less vet schools, less painful training, and more people who 'just love animals', even if they may not have the academic focus for advanced medical study.

84 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:42:11pm

Greets from Paris. (France, not Hilton ;)

85 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:42:20pm

re: #81 reine.de.tout

nevermind.
They claim that the DNA exonerates them. No comment from the AG.

Yeah, none of the DNA found either at the scene or on the victims leads back to the three defendants, but some belongs to a stepfather of one of the boys, as well as his buddy who he claimed he was with the day of the murders.

And that's on top of a report of a guy showing up at a local restaurant on the day of the murders, covered in blood, that the cops never followed up. Didn't even taken a sample for DNA testing. And the case for two of the boys relied upon the forced confession of the third, who was mentally handicapped, who they leaned on for hours before he snapped.

That the cops who've spent 2 decades standing behind their case against these three are now looking to make a deal seems to be a pretty solid sign that the sentences are likely to be overturned.

86 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:43:03pm

re: #78 albusteve

it was supreme stupidity...scared me half to death tho

I once did some paperwork on a genuine Darwin Award winner--a Marine with a Kabar who overdemonstrated the value of his body armor.

87 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:43:12pm

re: #84 Sergey Romanov

Greets from Paris. (France, not Hilton ;)

You're contacting us over French internet?! You commie!

//

88 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:43:49pm

Noah's Ark...in Kentucky
good grief

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

89 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:43:53pm

re: #87 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

You're contacting us over French internet?! You commie!

//

Oh boy, is the commie internet slow!

90 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:45:22pm

re: #89 Sergey Romanov

Oh boy, is the commie internet slow!

Yes, but it's available to all. Now here in America, where we pay for our internet, people got great connections! Capitalism is king!

//

91 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:45:32pm

re: #86 Decatur Deb

I once did some paperwork on a genuine Darwin Award winner--a Marine with a Kabar who overdemonstrated the value of his body armor.

my weapon of choice was my 3.5in folding Buck

92 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:46:34pm

re: #90 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yes, but it's available to all. Now here in America, where we pay for our internet, people got great connections! Capitalism is king!

//

It's available only at the reception. Analyze that.

93 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:46:56pm

re: #84 Sergey Romanov

Greets from Paris. (France, not Hilton ;)

Give my regards to the city that drives several Japanese tourists into a breakdown annually.

94 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:47:17pm

re: #91 albusteve

my weapon of choice was my 3.5in folding Buck

'Twill serve.

95 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:47:31pm

re: #93 SanFranciscoZionist

Give my regards to the city that drives several Japanese tourists into a breakdown annually.

bad saki?

96 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:48:40pm

re: #92 Sergey Romanov

It's available only at the reception. Analyze that.

Geez, my condolences.

97 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:50:10pm

re: #94 Decatur Deb

'Twill serve.

and Rocky said, doc it's only a scratch

98 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:51:21pm

re: #97 albusteve

and Rocky said, doc it's only a scratch

'Tis only a fleshwound.

99 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:51:44pm

I made the mistake of looking at my portfolio. I feel queasy. I'm in for more bad news tomorrow because I own some HP but thankfully not much....
HP kills TouchPad, looks to exit PC business

100 SidewaysQuark  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:52:29pm

re: #2 HappyWarrior

It's simple to me. If you want creationism taught, either teach it your kids yourself or enroll them in a school that teaches it. You cannot expect a public school to teach Christian scripture not just in a science class but period. Now if you want to teach it in a comparative religions class, that's fine but the fact of the matter is that evolution is science and creationism is not. I cannot believe we're still debating this nearly 90 years after Scopes.

Well, even in a comparative religions class, you don't teach that creationism is "true". In a science class, however, you DO teach that evolution is "true". This is because you actually teach facts in science, whereas religion is mostly about fantasy. Good to keep the two separated.

101 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:53:36pm

re: #98 Sergey Romanov

'Tis only a fleshwound.

come back you coward!
Monty Python

102 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:54:56pm

re: #101 albusteve

come back you coward!
Monty Python

I'll bite yer legs off!

103 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:55:01pm

I just got in, but I just have to post this. I think Michelle Bachmann's gone and handed her critics a club and she's about to be knocked silly:

Bachmann: I'll bring back $2 gas

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- President Michele Bachmann has a promise: $2 gas.

"Under President Bachmann you will see gasoline come down below $2 a gallon again," Bachmann told a crowd Tuesday in South Carolina. "That will happen."

Sure, politicians promise all kinds of things on the campaign trail. But Bachmann, a leading contender for the 2012 Republican nomination, is wading into truly tricky territory.

The price Americans pay at the pump is tied to the crude oil market -- a global system largely beyond the reach of Washington.

It's certainly true that prices -- now about $3.50 a gallon on average -- have risen since President Obama took office.

"The day that the president became president gasoline was $1.79 a gallon," Bachmann said. "Look what it is today."

Of course, that's not the full story.

SNIP

Bachmann did not lay out a specific plan to drop prices on Tuesday. But her campaign website says that as president, she would ease restrictions on drilling and roll back federal regulations on the shale gas industry.

While increased oil and gas drilling in the United States may create good-paying jobs, reduce reliance on foreign oil and lower the trade deficit, it would have little impact on gas and oil prices.

Drill baby drill won't lower gas prices

That's because the amount of extra oil that could be produced from more drilling in this country is tiny compared to what the country -- and the world -- consumes.

Plus, any extra oil the United States did produce would likely be quickly offset by a cut in OPEC production.

Warning: Clicking the main link will bring you to a photo of Michelle Bachmann in full "1000 yard stare".

104 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:55:10pm

I can't stay long, but something in the article Charles quoted is making my head hurt: It talks about creation-science and evolution-science. Creation science? *blinks* Wut?

So I go to Wikipedia to try to halt the cognitive dissonance before my head explodes. It says:

Creation Science or scientific creationism is a branch of creationism, which attempts to provide scientific support for the Genesis creation narrative in the Book of Genesis and disprove generally accepted scientific facts, theories and scientific paradigms about the history of the Earth, cosmology and biological evolution.

Doesn't that by definition make it like un-science or anti-science or something? WTF? O_o

105 recusancy  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:55:37pm

What we are entering, J.P. Morgan says, is a “policy-induced slowdown.”

J.P. Morgan notes that one reason they think the United States might tip back into recession is that in the first quarter of 2012, there will be “an automatic tightening fiscal policy if, as our US team currently assumes, this year’s fiscal stimulus measures will expire.”
106 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:58:27pm

re: #104 CuriousLurker

It's a division between so-called biblical and scienrific creationism. Allegedly scientific creationism - creation science - reaches conclusions solely from scientific facts, while biblical creationism is explicitly based on the Bible. In reality it was just a ploy to get creationism into schools.

107 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:59:44pm

re: #103 Dark_Falcon

I just got in, but I just have to post this. I think Michelle Bachmann's gone and handed her critics a club and she's about to be knocked silly:

Bachmann: I'll bring back $2 gas

SNIP

Warning: Clicking the main link will bring you to a photo of Michelle Bachmann in full "1000 yard stare".

Bush dropped gas prices just by going out and making an announcement that off-shore areas would be open to oil exploration! Yeah, the states stepped in and said "Hell No!," but it was the "signal" to the market that mattered! I'm sure President Bachmann can do the same!

108 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 3:59:45pm

re: #103 Dark_Falcon

gas is around 3.30 in ABQ...not bad at all...MB is a textbook lunatic, therefore I don't read much of what she says...hurling spew is her forte

109 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:00:30pm

re: #105 recusancy

What we are entering, J.P. Morgan says, is a “policy-induced slowdown.”

Now children, we all know that the stimulus didn't work. Those Republicans who have no reason to lie to us said so. I mean, why would you not believe folks who have a vested interest in seeing Obama voted out when they say that?

//

110 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:02:43pm

re: #109 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Now children, we all know that the stimulus didn't work. Those Republicans who have no reason to lie to us said so. I mean, why would you not believe folks who have a vested interest in seeing Obama voted out when they say that?

//

the cool thing about our economy is nobody is responsible for anything, except the GOP of course

111 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:02:51pm

re: #107 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I think that the other candidates are going to pound Bachmann for the stupidity of this statement, and even if no Republican does, Pres. Obama surely will.

112 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:03:17pm

In 5min gonna crawl back to my room. I think I'll kill tomorrow on Louvre.

113 dell*nix  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:03:34pm

re: #50 HoosierHoops

I know this is late posting, but I thought this was his kariake song.

At least according to some rumors.

114 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:03:48pm

re: #106 Sergey Romanov

It's a division between so-called biblical and scienrific creationism. Allegedly scientific creationism - creation science - reaches conclusions solely from scientific facts, while biblical creationism is explicitly based on the Bible. In reality it was just a ploy to get creationism into schools.

Okay, the last sentence makes sense. The rest, not so much. I mean if "creation science" reaches conclusions solely from scientific facts, why tag n the "creation" part instead of just calling it plain old "science"? Gah!

Thanks, Sergey.

115 Gus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:04:07pm

re: #107 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

...

Haven't you heard? Once domestic oil production picks up the oil producers will sell their oil below market or commodity value as a symbol of solidarity with the American people. Once those prices are lowered through this patriotic act by the oil producers it will be followed by an equally patriotic act by the oil refiners. This will translate to lower gasoline prices at the pump. See. Like magic! Sort of like... creationism.

116 darthstar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:04:08pm

I saw some dinosaur fossils here in New Mexico this week...no Jesus.

117 boredtechindenver  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:05:25pm

re: #116 darthstar

I saw some dinosaur fossils here in New Mexico this week...no Jesus.

Those were just the "blue hairs" attending the opera.
///

118 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:05:36pm
Republican candidates often don’t like the press, but Michele Bachmann is taking it to a whole new level. Politico says there are at least five incidents of political reporters claiming to have been pushed, shoved, and threatened with violence by Bachmann’s staff. Two of these incidents became their own news stories: ABC News’ Brian Ross was pushed around by Bachmann staffers, while CNN’s Don Lemon was pushed into a cart by Bachmann’s husband, Marcus. Fox News correspondent Steve Brown also was caught on camera telling a Bachmann bodyguard “Do not put your hands on me. Do not do it ever again.” And a foreign reporter tells Politico a Bachmann aide threatened to break his arm. (Bachmann’s camp denies the allegation.) Bachmann’s most aggressive aide is a former Secret Service agent who her campaign says has previously guarded presidents. “The No. 1 priority for us every single day we step out on the campaign trail is the safety and security of Michele Bachmann,” says the campaign's spokeswoman.


Oh the Bachmann lulz, may they never end

119 Gus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:05:47pm

re: #116 darthstar

I saw some dinosaur fossils here in New Mexico this week...no Jesus.

How do you know? You could have seen Jesus and didn't know it.

Mr. Jesus H. Garcia

//

120 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:06:05pm

Watch Anderson Cooper melt down into a giggling puddle of goo.

121 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:06:45pm

re: #116 darthstar

I saw some dinosaur fossils here in New Mexico this week...no Jesus.

no, but there are literally millions of Virgin Marys down here...my favorites are carved into tree trunks...bizzaro but kinda cool

122 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:07:03pm

re: #95 albusteve

bad saki?

Rudeness and dirty streets, apparently. Not like the movies. Japanese tourists have been known to snap.

123 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:07:03pm

re: #114 CuriousLurker

Okay, the last sentence makes sense. The rest, not so much. I mean if "creation science" reaches conclusions solely from scientific facts, why tag n the "creation" part instead of just calling it plain old "science"? Gah!

Thanks, Sergey.

It's actually equivalent to intelligent design ploy. Not in the sense of whether things are designed or not, but in how the conclusion about the act of creation is based simply on denial of evolution. They try to deny evo, pretend this proves creation - ergo creation science.

124 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:08:18pm

re: #122 SanFranciscoZionist

Rudeness and dirty streets, apparently. Not like the movies. Japanese tourists have been known to snap.

Snapanese tourists...oh well

125 darthstar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:08:42pm

re: #121 albusteve

no, but there are literally millions of Virgin Marys down here...


Not after I'm done with them.
/

126 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:09:11pm

re: #125 darthstar

Not after I'm done with them.
/

badda boom!

127 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:09:52pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

I think that the other candidates are going to pound Bachmann for the stupidity of this statement, and even if no Republican does, Pres. Obama surely will.

Bachmann's sort of like what if Palin had more self-control. Just as much a vapid airhead, but smart enough not to take every news story against her as a personal insult.

128 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:10:29pm

re: #122 SanFranciscoZionist

Rudeness and dirty streets, apparently. Not like the movies. Japanese tourists have been known to snap.

Now that would make a great movie, with the right Japanese leading dude.

129 Gus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:11:42pm

re: #123 Sergey Romanov

It's actually equivalent to intelligent design ploy. Not in the sense of whether things are designed or not, but in how the conclusion about the act of creation is based simply on denial of evolution. They try to deny evo, pretend this proves creation - ergo creation science.

Just another delusion by people who think that if you can't disprove that some Nordic looking guy with white hair, white robe, and Roman sandals created the Earth in several days and 6,000 years ago they must be right.

I'm 7 feet tall and I own a mansion and a yacht. You can't disprove that so therefore you have to admit that it's true.

130 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:12:20pm

The reason you all need to come to New Mexico is that if we just tell you about it, you would not believe us.

Last evening at sunset it was not overcast, but there were clouds all over the sky, all brightly lighted in red and magenta, with electric orange to the west. To the south there was a double rainbow, with lightning flashing across it.

It's all true.

131 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:13:47pm

Ok, I leave you with this:
Nivea's New Ad Racist?
[Link: www.forbes.com...]

132 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:14:04pm

G'nocht.

133 darthstar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:14:10pm

re: #130 wrenchwench

The reason you all need to come to New Mexico is that if we just tell you about it, you would not believe us.

Last evening at sunset it was not overcast, but there were clouds all over the sky, all brightly lighted in red and magenta, with electric orange to the west. To the south there was a double rainbow, with lightning flashing across it.

It's all true.

I've been here all week...it's been gorgeous. Went and played golf at Buffalo Thunder (Indian Casino Resort)...lovely day. Played like shit, but it was worth the 130 bucks for clubs, cart and green fees...and my father-in-law had fun cussing with me.

134 darthstar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:15:34pm

re: #133 darthstar

I've been here all week...it's been gorgeous. Went and played golf at Buffalo Thunder (Indian Casino Resort)...lovely day. Played like shit, but it was worth the 130 bucks for clubs, cart and green fees...and my father-in-law had fun cussing with me.

And I'll be coming back after the snow falls. Nice steeps on the mountains here.

135 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:16:11pm

re: #133 darthstar

I've been here all week...it's been gorgeous. Went and played golf at Buffalo Thunder (Indian Casino Resort)...lovely day. Played like shit, but it was worth the 130 bucks for clubs, cart and green fees...and my father-in-law had fun cussing with me.

that's a nice place...I love the complimentary peyote slushies

136 Gus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:16:51pm

re: #131 Sergey Romanov

Ok, I leave you with this:
Nivea's New Ad Racist?
[Link: www.forbes.com...]

No. It's a little weird but that's about it.

137 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:17:05pm

re: #123 Sergey Romanov

It's actually equivalent to intelligent design ploy. Not in the sense of whether things are designed or not, but in how the conclusion about the act of creation is based simply on denial of evolution. They try to deny evo, pretend this proves creation - ergo creation science.

Seems like an awful lot of logical gymnastics. Why not just admit believing in creation as a literal event as described in [insert religious tradition here]? I mean it's not as if you're actually fooling anyone by doing that, except maybe yourself...

138 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:18:54pm

re: #134 darthstar

And I'll be coming back after the snow falls. Nice steeps on the mountains here.

not too many one day ski trips around here except Taos....but Telluride, Purgatory and Wolf Creek are all with about 5 hrs for a good long weekend...Telluride is flat out awesome

139 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:20:03pm

re: #131 Sergey Romanov

Ok, I leave you with this:
Nivea's New Ad Racist?
[Link: www.forbes.com...]

It's deeply confusing is what it is. When I first saw it, I was wondering, why is this handsome young man holding someone's decapitated head?

140 Gus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:20:35pm

re: #139 SanFranciscoZionist

It's deeply confusing is what it is. When I first saw it, I was wondering, why is this handsome young man holding someone's decapitated head?

That's what I was thinking.

141 darthstar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:20:45pm

re: #138 albusteve

not too many one day ski trips around here except Taos...but Telluride, Purgatory and Wolf Creek are all with about 5 hrs for a good long weekend...Telluride is flat out awesome

I want to ski this local Santa Fe area. 18 miles from town, 600 acres, 1750 vertical, 12,000+ summit...looks just fine to me.

142 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:21:16pm

re: #137 CuriousLurker

Seems like an awful lot of logical gymnastics. Why not just admit believing in creation as a literal event as described in [insert religious tradition here]? I mean it's not as if you're actually fooling anyone by doing that, except maybe yourself...

because splitting hairs, making shit up, and veiled deceit are the name of the game to fog over the basic insanity...a lot of phony pseudointellectual blather and presto!....you have a winner

143 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:21:17pm

re: #127 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Bachmann's sort of like what if Palin had more self-control. Just as much a vapid airhead, but smart enough not to take every news story against her as a personal insult.

Yeah, but Palin knows enough about how oil prices work not to have uttered this particular bit of stupid. She likely won't comment on Bachmann's brain fart, but if Sarah Palin wanted to she could easily call "Bullshit!" on Bachmann. That might give Palin some of the attention she wants.

144 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:23:15pm

re: #141 darthstar

I want to ski this local Santa Fe area. 18 miles from town, 600 acres, 1750 vertical, 12,000+ summit...looks just fine to me.

it is if the snow falls....Santa Fe has all the skiing I need, but it's less than big time, so to speak

145 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:24:30pm

re: #143 Dark_Falcon

Yeah, but Palin knows enough about how oil prices work not to have uttered this particular bit of stupid. She likely won't comment on Bachmann's brain fart, but if Sarah Palin wanted to she could easily call "Bullshit!" on Bachmann. That might give Palin some of the attention she wants.

Yeah, but at this point in the game, having Sarah Palin say you're full of shit doesn't carry much weight. If anything, it would likely be spun as a turf war over leadership of the Tea Party.

146 reine.de.tout  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:25:01pm

re: #85 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, none of the DNA found either at the scene or on the victims leads back to the three defendants, but some belongs to a stepfather of one of the boys, as well as his buddy who he claimed he was with the day of the murders.

And that's on top of a report of a guy showing up at a local restaurant on the day of the murders, covered in blood, that the cops never followed up. Didn't even taken a sample for DNA testing. And the case for two of the boys relied upon the forced confession of the third, who was mentally handicapped, who they leaned on for hours before he snapped.

That the cops who've spent 2 decades standing behind their case against these three are now looking to make a deal seems to be a pretty solid sign that the sentences are likely to be overturned.

I just went thru and looked at additional info, and there seems to have been some huge errors made during the investigation.

147 darthstar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:30:17pm

re: #143 Dark_Falcon

Yeah, but Palin knows enough about how oil prices work not to have uttered this particular bit of stupid. She likely won't comment on Bachmann's brain fart, but if Sarah Palin wanted to she could easily call "Bullshit!" on Bachmann. That might give Palin some of the attention she wants.

Nothing gives Palin the attention she wants. And nobody gives a crap whether or not she calls bullshit on Bachmann. She's not a political figure anymore - just a reality TV show personality and occasional commenter on Fox News...and she has a bus.

Out of curiosity, DF, which of the Republicans currently running do you want to see win in 2012?

148 darthstar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:31:57pm

re: #144 albusteve

it is if the snow falls...Santa Fe has all the skiing I need, but it's less than big time, so to speak

I've had my big-time skiing - and I ski at Alpine Meadows all year - some of the most challenging terrain on the planet - along with 300+ avalanche paths within the ski area boundary...I'm happy to vacation ski with my wife and get in some steep runs on the side without feeling like my macho is getting mushy.

149 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:33:26pm

re: #146 reine.de.tout

I was looking for you online earlier today - did you hear about
this?

Two children and a young man have died this summer from a brain-eating amoeba that lives in water, health officials say.

This month, the rare infection killed a 16-year-old Florida girl, who fell ill after swimming, and a 9-year-old Virginia boy, who died a week after he went to a fishing day camp...Those cases are consistent with past cases, which are usually kids — often boys — who get exposed to the bug while swimming or doing water sports in warm ponds or lakes.

The third case, in Louisiana, was more unusual. It was a young man whose death in June was traced to the tap water he used in a device called a neti pot. It's a small teapot-shaped container used to rinse out the nose and sinuses with salt water to relieve allergies, colds and sinus trouble.

150 darthstar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:33:39pm

re: #145 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, but at this point in the game, having Sarah Palin say you're full of shit doesn't carry much weight. If anything, it would likely be spun as a turf war over leadership of the Tea Party.

Having Sarah Palin say you're full of shit simply means you're Levi Johnston (i.e. you're fucking one of her kids (and her on the side) and she doesn't want you talking about it).

151 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:35:58pm

re: #148 darthstar

I've had my big-time skiing - and I ski at Alpine Meadows all year - some of the most challenging terrain on the planet - along with 300+ avalanche paths within the ski area boundary...I'm happy to vacation ski with my wife and get in some steep runs on the side without feeling like my macho is getting mushy.

I defer to you in these matters...you probably see a run a lot different than I do....my tora tora tora style is exactly why there is a Ski Patrol...the skiing here is not exactly world class, but the views are priceless and the people are great...if the snow is cold and plenty of it, then NM will get it done for you

152 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:36:14pm

re: #149 publicityStunted

I was looking for you online earlier today - did you hear about
this?

I'd heard about the first two, but not the third. Whoa.

153 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:36:22pm

re: #150 darthstar

Having Sarah Palin say you're full of shit simply means you're Levi Johnston (i.e. you're fucking one of her kids (and her on the side) and she doesn't want you talking about it).

Downding is for the bolded section. Don't make accusations like that without evidence.

154 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:36:50pm

re: #147 darthstar

Nothing gives Palin the attention she wants. And nobody gives a crap whether or not she calls bullshit on Bachmann. She's not a political figure anymore - just a reality TV show personality and occasional commenter on Fox News...and she has a bus.

Out of curiosity, DF, which of the Republicans currently running do you want to see win in 2012?

Mitt Romney.

BBIAB

155 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:37:55pm

What is the difference between an Aggie and a carp?
One is a bottom feeding scum sucker and the other is a fish.

156 blueraven  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:39:08pm

re: #110 albusteve

the cool thing about our economy is nobody is responsible for anything, except the GOP of course

If the shoe fits...

The truth is with all these austerity measures, a slow down is inevitable. Its not the right time for it.

157 Stanghazi  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:39:47pm

re: #85 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, none of the DNA found either at the scene or on the victims leads back to the three defendants, but some belongs to a stepfather of one of the boys, as well as his buddy who he claimed he was with the day of the murders.

And that's on top of a report of a guy showing up at a local restaurant on the day of the murders, covered in blood, that the cops never followed up. Didn't even taken a sample for DNA testing. And the case for two of the boys relied upon the forced confession of the third, who was mentally handicapped, who they leaned on for hours before he snapped.

That the cops who've spent 2 decades standing behind their case against these three are now looking to make a deal seems to be a pretty solid sign that the sentences are likely to be overturned.

My Aunt has been one of the activists immersed in this case from day one, to the point where family has basically given up talking to her. I have a call out to her now. I will report back.

158 Stanghazi  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:40:14pm

Oh and hai!

159 reine.de.tout  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:40:25pm

re: #149 publicityStunted

I was looking for you online earlier today - did you hear about
this?

Yeah, I saw that, scared the daylights out of me.

But then I read further (in the local story) - his home's water system was its own - he didn't use city water, he has a well or a cistern that he uses for water. Which was a relief to me!

160 reine.de.tout  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:41:19pm

re: #155 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What is the difference between an Aggie and a carp?
One is a bottom feeding scum sucker and the other is a fish.

oooooh, FBV.

161 darthstar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:42:46pm

re: #153 Dark_Falcon

Downding is for the bolded section. Don't make accusations like that without evidence.

I find it far easier to believe Sarah did Levi (or some of Trigg's other friends) than I do her story about the scope being off when she took six shots to hit that doped up caribou.

162 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:44:17pm

re: #20 RanchTooth

How many Aggies does it take to screw in a light bulb?
One, but he gets 3 hours credit.

re: #160 reine.de.tout

oooh, FBV.

Aggie jokes are like WV jokes or Boudreau & Thibodau jokes, and are mostly interchangeable.

163 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:44:19pm

re: #161 darthstar

Trigg Palin is a Down's Syndrome toddler. What on Earth are you talking about?

164 darthstar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:44:29pm

re: #153 Dark_Falcon

Downding is for the bolded section. Don't make accusations like that without evidence.

updinged for downdinging me...now tell me who you support for President.

165 darthstar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:45:16pm

re: #163 EmmmieG

Trigg Palin is a Down's Syndrome toddler. What on Earth are you talking about?

Track...sorry...I get them screwed up. I honestly thought Trigg was the army vet.

166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:45:25pm

re: #161 darthstar

Just not cool.

168 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:46:09pm

re: #161 darthstar

I find it far easier to believe Sarah did Levi (or some of Trigg's other friends) than I do her story about the scope being off when she took six shots to hit that doped up caribou.

you are a soap opera junkie, no question...maybe there is a club you can join

169 darthstar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:47:48pm

re: #162 Fat Bastard Vegetarian


Aggie jokes are like WV jokes or Boudreau & Thibodau jokes, and are mostly interchangeable.

Or South Dakota jokes if you live in Montana (What were Custer's last words? "At least we don't have to ride home through South Dakota.")

170 darthstar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:50:44pm

re: #168 albusteve

you are a soap opera junkie, no question...maybe there is a club you can join

I just want to know which of these GOP hopefuls DF supports - I know he supports one of them...I guess we'll know in another 9 or 10 months.

171 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:51:03pm
phonebookguy1

Karma: 0
Registered since: Apr 17, 2009 at 7:46 pm
(Logged in)

No. of comments posted: 0
No. of links posted: 0
Recent comments

I wonder where phonebookguy2 is.

172 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:51:17pm

Burned the frickin' roof of my mouth with a baked tater. Hurts.

173 darthstar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:51:48pm

re: #171 wrenchwench

I wonder where phonebookguy2 is.

Waiting his turn

174 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:51:54pm

re: #170 darthstar

I just want to know which of these GOP hopefuls DF supports - I know he supports one of them...I guess we'll know in another 9 or 10 months.

See #154.

175 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:51:56pm

re: #172 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Burned the frickin' roof of my mouth with a baked tater. Hurts.

This would be a good time to drink some cold water or milk.

(You did already know this, right?)

176 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:52:02pm

Allahpundit thinks the only rational Republican candidate must be up to something sneaky....
Jon Huntsman: Call me crazy but I believe in evolution and global warming

Serious question: Is Huntsman trying to win anymore or is he playing some sort of long game now? I can imagine a game plan in which he tries to position himself as the fearless yet doomed centrist Cassandra who warned the base not to nominate a candidate too far to the right. If Obama wins reelection, Huntsman gets to do an “I told you so” tour among an adoring media and hope that Republican primary voters will remember when he runs again in 2016. The only problem with that? There are a good half dozen bona fide rock stars who’ll also be positioned to run next time, starting with Marco Rubio and maybe including Christie, Jindal, Rand Paul, Jeb Bush, Nikki Haley, and who knows who else. Anyone think Huntsman, who’ll have been out of office for five years by 2016 and nine years by 2020, will beat ‘em all? I honestly don’t get his grand strategy.
177 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:52:10pm

re: #170 darthstar

I just want to know which of these GOP hopefuls DF supports - I know he supports one of them...I guess we'll know in another 9 or 10 months.

Wouldn't you rather know now? ;)

178 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:52:22pm

re: #169 darthstar

Or South Dakota jokes if you live in Montana (What were Custer's last words? "At least we don't have to ride home through South Dakota.")

Custer?...hahaha!
wtf did he know about anything?....his post war career was nothing but slaughter and bigotry...not a tough guy at all, rather a serious narcissist that got his troops killed for no reason other than his personal pursuit of glory...Custer sucked and so did his jokes

179 darthstar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:52:55pm

re: #177 publicityStunted

Wouldn't you rather know now? ;)

Damn...missed it. Good for you, DF...Mittens is a cute puppy. He'll do well until the primaries.

180 darthstar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:54:58pm

Okay...time to be sociable with the family...play nice everyone.

181 lostlakehiker  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:56:18pm

re: #103 Dark_Falcon

I just got in, but I just have to post this. I think Michelle Bachmann's gone and handed her critics a club and she's about to be knocked silly:

Bachmann: I'll bring back $2 gas

SNIP

Warning: Clicking the main link will bring you to a photo of Michelle Bachmann in full "1000 yard stare".

Bachman isn't up to the rigors of the contest. She'll be eliminated pretty quickly. Pawlenty's gone. Perry has some degree of political skill and he won't be eliminated before the voting even begins.

Then again, I could be wrong about that. He's shot himself in the foot already once, with loose talk about "treason".

People will tolerate, or even embrace, using words such as "living wage" to mean a wage sufficiently high that one need not live in proximity to people with incomes at the 20th percentile, but treason has no "relaxed-fit" meaning.

182 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:56:21pm

re: #175 EmmmieG

Beer work?

183 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:56:36pm

re: #172 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Burned the frickin' roof of my mouth with a baked tater. Hurts.

You really should wait till it comes out of the oven next time!

184 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:57:12pm

Later, lizards.

[Link: www.viddler.com...]

185 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:57:48pm

re: #179 darthstar

Damn...missed it. Good for you, DF...Mittens is a cute puppy. He'll do well until the primaries.

I think Mitt could be a serious candidate but he can't run as himself. As the architect of Obamacare I'll give Mitt credit, although he won;t accept it. He'll have to run on a platform that endorses the Ryan Budget, outlaw abortion, abolish the EPA and teach creationism in science class.

186 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 4:58:59pm

re: #182 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Beer work?

Wouldn't know, but I assume that any cold liquid will do.

187 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:00:03pm

re: #182 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Beer work?

No,,, but I'll work FOR beer!!!

188 lostlakehiker  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:00:19pm

re: #185 Killgore Trout

I think Mitt could be a serious candidate but he can't run as himself. As the architect of Obamacare I'll give Mitt credit, although he won;t accept it. He'll have to run on a platform that endorses the Ryan Budget, outlaw abortion, abolish the EPA and teach creationism in science class.

No he won't. If he's nominated, it will be because conservative Republicans smell blood in the water and are playing to win, figuring they can sort out the details later.

Playing to win means moving to the center, where the votes that might go either way are. The center doesn't want any of those things.

190 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:01:40pm

re: #185 Killgore Trout

I think Mitt could be a serious candidate but he can't run as himself. As the architect of Obamacare I'll give Mitt credit, although he won;t accept it. He'll have to run on a platform that endorses the Ryan Budget, outlaw abortion, abolish the EPA and teach creationism in science class.

Finally, we can get back to electing nothing but Republican sons of powerful Republican politicians, because that's worked out so well for us

191 Stanghazi  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:02:11pm

I personally like Huntsman the best. His brave (what a joke that that's considered bravery with educated people, but I digress) statement today was awesome.

192 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:03:44pm

re: #185 Killgore Trout

I think Mitt could be a serious candidate but he can't run as himself. As the architect of Obamacare I'll give Mitt credit, although he won;t accept it. He'll have to run on a platform that endorses the Ryan Budget, outlaw abortion, abolish the EPA and teach creationism in science class.

the GOP runners are like batteries...one burns out pop another one in...it doesn't matter one wit who runs for president...some will be happy, some will be angry and the rest of us will go ho hum, who gives a shit...the feds will fuck things up and we will moo our way into the next pasture...the drama gags me...there is hardly any substance anymore, so what's the point?....this persons a nut, that persons a hack, it gets boring because it's lost all meaning

193 lostlakehiker  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:03:54pm

re: #176 Killgore Trout

Allahpundit thinks the only rational Republican candidate must be up to something sneaky...
Jon Huntsman: Call me crazy but I believe in evolution and global warming

Think of it like this. Every candidate sketches out a portion of the available political space. The area over on the nutwing right is clogged with candidates, each sounding sillier than the other to the scientifically literate segment of the population. Huntsman's all alone over on the other side. If, somehow or other, the nutwing sector should be altogether discredited, who's left standing? Huntsman.

It may be a long shot, but being who he is, with his views and his record, it's probably his best chance.

194 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:04:30pm

re: #188 lostlakehiker

No he won't. If he's nominated, it will be because conservative Republicans smell blood in the water and are playing to win, figuring they can sort out the details later.

Playing to win means moving to the center, where the votes that might go either way are. The center doesn't want any of those things.

With the exception of Huntsman they're all running on a Tea Party platform. It's baffling because the most recent polls show the Tea Party with something like an 80% disapproval rating. Any Republican candidate who even hints at a rational idea or is willing to make compromises will be screwed with the base. You can attract moderate swing voters or you can attract the radical Tea Partiers. You can't have both.

195 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:05:25pm

re: #185 Killgore Trout

I think that Romney would serve his candidacy nicely if he said, "My American friends; I have already proven that this can not work in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts; and am determined that we do not point our country down the same path. While I am still glad that we tried; but as far as controlling costs and being affordable; this has been a cataclysmic failure. I accept full responsibility for my lack of foresight on this issue. I only wish that our Federal Government had learned a lesson about how this has turned out for our substantial, but small state."

196 lostlakehiker  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:07:06pm

re: #194 Killgore Trout

With the exception of Huntsman they're all running on a Tea Party platform. It's baffling because the most recent polls show the Tea Party with something like an 80% disapproval rating. Any Republican candidate who even hints at a rational idea or is willing to make compromises will be screwed with the base. You can attract moderate swing voters or you can attract the radical Tea Partiers. You can't have both.

Well, I guess we shall see. TP voters may find that they cannot have their way across the board. The question isn't whether they like Romney, the question is who they like better, among those still standing who might, in the general estimate, beat Obama.

Bachmann isn't on that list. The list will shift as the campaign goes on, and conceivably, Perry will be erased from it.

197 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:07:07pm

re: #194 Killgore Trout

You can attract moderate swing voters or you can attract the radical Tea Partiers. You can't have both.

They're betting that with enough Koch $$$, the Citizens United ruling, and more deliberate sabotage of economic recovery, they can scare the former into becoming the latter.

198 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:07:47pm

re: #189 Killgore Trout

General McAuliffe is probably a little pissed.

199 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:08:10pm

re: #170 darthstar

I just want to know which of these GOP hopefuls DF supports - I know he supports one of them...I guess we'll know in another 9 or 10 months.

Mitt Romney, as I already said.

Now I have to go to dinner. back later.

200 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:08:59pm

re: #197 publicityStunted

They're betting that with enough Koch $$$, the Citizens United ruling, and more deliberate sabotage of economic recovery, they can scare the former into becoming the latter.

finish off that pesky middle class once and for all

201 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:10:40pm

Mitt Romney: Who let the dogs out?

202 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:11:01pm

re: #199 Dark_Falcon

Mitt Romney, as I already said.

Now I have to go to dinner. back later.

Romney is a filthy rich, greasy elitist...he's for sale
another third rate bozo that gets all this attention and for what?...he has not accomplished jack shit....therefore he may end up POTUS...spit

203 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:13:32pm

we elect our leaders based on sound bites and photo ops....hey I can sing and dance, juggle, do a few magic tricks, lie with a smile and where cool shooz....I'm presidential baby

204 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:15:42pm

re: #203 albusteve

we elect our leaders based on sound bites and photo ops...hey I can sing and dance, juggle, do a few magic tricks, lie with a smile and where cool shooz...I'm presidential baby

I can deliver the Grumpy American vote...for a price.

205 Achilles Tang  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:15:42pm

re: #203 albusteve

we elect our leaders based on sound bites and photo ops...hey I can sing and dance, juggle, do a few magic tricks, lie with a smile and where cool shooz...I'm presidential baby

"We"?

206 Atlas Fails  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:15:58pm

re: #203 albusteve

we elect our leaders based on sound bites and photo ops...hey I can sing and dance, juggle, do a few magic tricks, lie with a smile and where cool shooz...I'm presidential baby

Wow, and I thought I was cynical.

207 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:18:06pm

re: #203 albusteve

we elect our leaders based on sound bites and photo ops...hey I can sing and dance, juggle, do a few magic tricks, lie with a smile and where cool shooz...I'm presidential baby

This is a situation that's older than disco. A major factor in JFK's victory was the televised debates against Nixon, where he came off looking like movie star, while Tricky Dick looked like a used car salesman. We could even push it further back and argue that part of FDR's success was using radio and motion pictures to reach the masses.

208 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:18:37pm

Gimme five!
Image: gimme1.gif
Good evening.

209 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:19:15pm

re: #206 Atlas Fails

Wow, and I thought I was cynical.

just wait until the zoo opens up....every GOP candidate added collectively ain't worth a dog catcher...it's pathetic in an epic sense...these cartoons are going to ruin this country....the animosity people here express for the GOP is the same I express for all of them, regardless of party

210 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:19:19pm

re: #208 Varek Raith

Gimme five!
Image: gimme1.gif
Good evening.

*Squints* I think that's one of my uncles.

//

211 austin_blue  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:20:24pm

re: #202 albusteve

Romney is a filthy rich, greasy elitist...he's for sale
another third rate bozo that gets all this attention and for what?...he has not accomplished jack shit...therefore he may end up POTUS...spit

And at least Perry has been consistent (wrong, but consistently so). I believe Romney would say the sky is yellow and the sun is blue if he thought it would help. Which reminds me:

Evening all!

212 Stanghazi  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:20:54pm

re: #207 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

This is a situation that's older than disco. A major factor in JFK's victory was the televised debates against Nixon, where he came off looking like movie star, while Tricky Dick looked like a used car salesman. We could even push it further back and argue that part of FDR's success was using radio and motion pictures to reach the masses.

The benefit now, though is I think there are way more resources than the 3 networks. Just takes the time & energy to use them. AND to be able to see the contrasts, ie. get rid of the propaganda.

213 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:25:20pm

re: #212 Stanley Sea

The benefit now, though is I think there are way more resources than the 3 networks. Just takes the time & energy to use them. AND to be able to see the contrasts, ie. get rid of the propaganda.

Campaigns have gotten better at manipulating the press as the years have gone on, such now that candidates don't even have to announce before the press starts shilling for them. Perry just joined the hunt last week, yet the press had been polling him as a "potential" candidate for weeks prior, and pundits talking about him as a candidate prior to that.

Of course, the same is true for the reverse, namely over-saturation can break a candidate just as easily. Palin's finding that out the hard way, as she slowly ceases to be "the next big thing" and becomes "just another pretty face" at Fox News.

214 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:26:18pm

after the First Big Crash, I said that's it for me....when the market eeked it's way back up to 10-11k I sold two thirds of my portfolio for a moderate profit...then we sold off our gold and made a killing...I want cash...I refuse to let the feds and the market dictate my wealth and my future...the market is not the end of all, there are many other ways to make money

215 BishopX  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:28:16pm

re: #195 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I think that Romney would serve his candidacy nicely if he said, "My American friends; I have already proven that this can not work in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts; and am determined that we do not point our country down the same path. While I am still glad that we tried; but as far as controlling costs and being affordable; this has been a cataclysmic failure. I accept full responsibility for my lack of foresight on this issue. I only wish that our Federal Government had learned a lesson about how this has turned out for our substantial, but small state."

The big issue with Romney selling himself of his Massachusetts record is that he really didn't have much power to stop the legislature from doing what it wanted. The Democrats had an 80% majority in the state house and controlled 34 out of the 40 state senate seats. Romney had 707 of his 814 budgetary line item vetoes overridden, some unanimously. He didn't do too well on non-budget issues either. Needle sharing and eight sections of the mass health care law made it through his veto. The minimum wage increase got over-ridden unanimously. The only thing I can remember him killing was a hate crimes taskforce whose budget he zeroed out in his first year in office.

216 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:40:23pm

[Link: twitter.com...]

217 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:43:42pm

re: #216 Varek Raith

[Link: twitter.com...]

I'm getting the impression that Huntsman is either looking to fight Romney for the sane voters or is situating himself for a 2016 run as being the only guy who didn't gulp down the tea this time around.

218 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:44:10pm

re: #216 Varek Raith

[Link: twitter.com...]

Huntsman is trying to corner the 'Sane Republican' vote. His numbers show he's pretty much got it.

219 prairiefire  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:44:15pm

re: #216 Varek Raith

[Link: twitter.com...]

That man is swimming against the tide.

220 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:46:01pm

re: #219 prairiefire

That man is swimming against the tide.

He's the only one of the Repub candidates who might not be a disaster for the country--sad.

221 Political Atheist  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:46:23pm

re: #218 Decatur Deb

In open primary states he may pick up some indys.

222 Political Atheist  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:46:53pm

re: #219 prairiefire

That man is swimming against the tide.

I think we can respect the effort even if it's likely to sink him.

223 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:47:23pm

re: #221 Rightwingconspirator

In open primary states he may pick up some indys.

Yeah--how important might that math be to a primary win?

224 Political Atheist  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:49:48pm

re: #223 Decatur Deb

hey just seeing someone stand up to the tea party deniers is fine with me. Let him be the guy that would not fold.

225 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:50:24pm

If you squint, you begin to see the potential method to his madness. Think about it, you've got Bachmann, Perry, Cain, & Paul fighting over the Tea Party vote. Romney's somewhere in the nebulous middle, not enough of a sell-out to be in serious contention for the TP vote, but too much of one to qualify as a truly "sane" candidate. So Huntsman might be able to pull in enough moderate voters to get far in the primaries. Probably won't win it all, but he'll set himself up nicely for a '16 run.

226 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:51:02pm

somehow mccain managed to win the primary fight easily despite being counted out as a moderate and having low poll numbers

the teabaggers are like the sunni in iraq under saddam - they believe they are the majority and have convinced everybody that they are all powerful, but it's just an illusion

227 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:52:57pm

re: #224 Rightwingconspirator

hey just seeing someone stand up to the tea party deniers is fine with me. Let him be the guy that would not fold.

every little political niche has fame waiting...but it's for gamblers...maybe there is sanity in the GOP, but if you play the hand too early, you'll get creamed....these are time of attrition, not principle...it does worry me some that Perry will be the last man standing

228 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:53:23pm

re: #226 engineer dog

somehow mccain managed to win the primary fight easily despite being counted out as a moderate and having low poll numbers

the teabaggers are like the sunni in iraq under saddam - they believe they are the majority and have convinced everybody that they are all powerful, but it's just an illusion

The reality of the TP movement is that it's not a unified one, it's various factions claiming to march under the same flag. When the primaries actually begin next year, we'll see the factional warfare begin.

229 Political Atheist  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:54:14pm

Lets look at credibility. Politifact

Huntsman

Perry


Romney

And of course...
Obama

230 Gus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:54:20pm

re: #225 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

If you squint, you begin to see the potential method to his madness. Think about it, you've got Bachmann, Perry, Cain, & Paul fighting over the Tea Party vote. Romney's somewhere in the nebulous middle, not enough of a sell-out to be in serious contention for the TP vote, but too much of one to qualify as a truly "sane" candidate. So Huntsman might be able to pull in enough moderate voters to get far in the primaries. Probably won't win it all, but he'll set himself up nicely for a '16 run.

I'm having a hard time picturing the Republican party and conservatives calming down after another 4 years of Obama. Worse so the wingnuts and others sundry extremists. I think they will continue on this course and try again in 2016 even if they fail in 2012. Huntsman will still be considered an outsider when that time comes. The atavists will continue to define the Republican party. No change.

231 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:56:09pm

I'm not much of a Beefheart fan (an apparent rarity among Zappa fanatics) but:

[Link: twitter.com...]

Image: JPDZd.jpg

232 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:56:37pm

re: #231 negativ

I'm not much of a Beefheart fan (an apparent rarity among Zappa fanatics) but:

[Link: twitter.com...]

Image: JPDZd.jpg

Heh.

233 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:58:51pm

re: #230 Gus 802

I'm having a hard time picturing the Republican party and conservatives calming down after another 4 years of Obama. Worse so the wingnuts and others sundry extremists. I think they will continue on this course and try again in 2016 even if they fail in 2012. Huntsman will still be considered an outsider when that time comes. The atavists will continue to define the Republican party. No change.

Think it depends on how good or bad things turn out for them. They win the White House and Congress, then the Tea Party will be here to stay. If they win one but lose the other, it'll cause a couple years of navel-gazing as to why they only succeed partially. If they fail both by sharp margins, they'll argue anything from voter turn-out to voter fraud.

Only with a complete, Mondale-scale blowout will the Tea Party be well and truly gone after next year. Because the blowback from not just the voters, but the party establishment would make flying the TP flag political suicide.

234 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 5:59:35pm

re: #231 negativ

I'm not much of a Beefheart fan (an apparent rarity among Zappa fanatics) but:

[Link: twitter.com...]

Image: JPDZd.jpg

Beef was a real nut...I always liked these guys...
New Riders

235 Gus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:05:48pm

re: #233 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Think it depends on how good or bad things turn out for them. They win the White House and Congress, then the Tea Party will be here to stay. If they win one but lose the other, it'll cause a couple years of navel-gazing as to why they only succeed partially. If they fail both by sharp margins, they'll argue anything from voter turn-out to voter fraud.

Only with a complete, Mondale-scale blowout will the Tea Party be well and truly gone after next year. Because the blowback from not just the voters, but the party establishment would make flying the TP flag political suicide.

But that's just looking at the Tea Party running the show and while they have been rather influential the atavism on the shared issues has always been there. There really is no change in the policy and ideology of mainstream Republicans like Boehner and McConnell. Mitt Romney turned to the right well before the onset of the Tea Party as has Rick Perry. Michele Bachmann always had a Tea Party mentality. The Republican Party's problems go well beyond the Tea Party and it was there for decades now. So even with the Tea Party gone -- if that ever were to take place -- the Republican Party will still be a party of climate change deniers if you will; creationists; anti-choice; anti-gay; etc.

236 austin_blue  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:15:37pm

re: #115 Gus 802

Haven't you heard? Once domestic oil production picks up the oil producers will sell their oil below market or commodity value as a symbol of solidarity with the American people. Once those prices are lowered through this patriotic act by the oil producers it will be followed by an equally patriotic act by the oil refiners. This will translate to lower gasoline prices at the pump. See. Like magic! Sort of like... creationism.

The US has 2% of the worlds potential reserves off of its coasts. If we developed *all* of that (ANWR, Florida, Cali, and deep plays in the gulf and east coast), it would have a negligible affect on pricing.

Period. Full stop.

237 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:16:35pm

re: #235 Gus 802

Well said. The Tea Party is just a symptom of a larger problem just like Glenn Beck and Fox News. Even with a massive electoral defeat the Republicans might shun the symptoms but won't deal with the larger problem for quite some time.

238 austin_blue  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:17:05pm

re: #215 BishopX

The big issue with Romney selling himself of his Massachusetts record is that he really didn't have much power to stop the legislature from doing what it wanted. The Democrats had an 80% majority in the state house and controlled 34 out of the 40 state senate seats. Romney had 707 of his 814 budgetary line item vetoes overridden, some unanimously. He didn't do too well on non-budget issues either. Needle sharing and eight sections of the mass health care law made it through his veto. The minimum wage increase got over-ridden unanimously. The only thing I can remember him killing was a hate crimes taskforce whose budget he zeroed out in his first year in office.

But he signed the bill. he could have vetoed and had it passed without his signature, but he signed it. Neck, meet albatross.

239 Political Atheist  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:17:11pm

re: #236 austin_blue

You neglect how speculators run up the price based on far less than that. Yet I suppose they would ignore real efforts to get more of our own wells online.

240 Gus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:18:32pm

re: #237 Killgore Trout

Well said. The Tea Party is just a symptom of a larger problem just like Glenn Beck and Fox News. Even with a massive electoral defeat the Republicans might shun the symptoms but won't deal with the larger problem for quite some time.

We've even seen the opposite effect. Sometimes when they lose they turn around and say "we weren't conservative enough." This is what they said about McCain. So if they lose in 2012 they may very well turn around and become even more conservative or in this case right wing.

241 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:21:37pm

re: #235 Gus 802

But that's just looking at the Tea Party running the show and while they have been rather influential the atavism on the shared issues has always been there. There really is no change in the policy and ideology of mainstream Republicans like Boehner and McConnell. Mitt Romney turned to the right well before the onset of the Tea Party as has Rick Perry. Michele Bachmann always had a Tea Party mentality. The Republican Party's problems go well beyond the Tea Party and it was there for decades now. So even with the Tea Party gone -- if that ever were to take place -- the Republican Party will still be a party of climate change deniers if you will; creationists; anti-choice; anti-gay; etc.

All very true. The Tea Party is not so much a brand new movement as simply the rebranding of the same old far-right, gaining support due to a public desperate for answers and convinced that the mythical "third party" would get things moving where the traditional two had failed. If they get blown out of the water next year, they'll simply try again under a new moniker.

"Hey, weren't you the Tea Party just yesterday?"
"Yeah, but I realized they weren't for me. Now I'm with the Patriot Party!"

242 Stanghazi  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:23:26pm

re: #240 Gus 802

We've even seen the opposite effect. Sometimes when they lose they turn around and say "we weren't conservative enough." This is what they said about McCain. So if they lose in 2012 they may very well turn around and become even more conservative or in this case right wing.

President Obama for 4 more? They are going to LOSE THEIR SHIT.

I think it will be before the election rather than after. Going to be a freaking ride.

243 Stanghazi  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:25:07pm
244 austin_blue  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:25:33pm

re: #239 Rightwingconspirator

You neglect how speculators run up the price based on far less than that. Yet I suppose they would ignore real efforts to get more of our own wells online.

The point is that there is just not that potential offshore. Reserves of 2% as part of the world total is a popcorn fart for the oil companies.

Now, *onshore* is a different story. And they are drilling the *shit* out of that. That's where the money is.

245 laZardo  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:28:14pm

re: #236 austin_blue

The US has 2% of the worlds potential reserves off of its coasts. If we developed *all* of that (ANWR, Florida, Cali, and deep plays in the gulf and east coast), it would have a negligible affect on pricing.

Period. Full stop.

That's what Libya is for.

246 Gus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:35:27pm

re: #244 austin_blue

The point is that there is just not that potential offshore. Reserves of 2% as part of the world total is a popcorn fart for the oil companies.

Now, *onshore* is a different story. And they are drilling the *shit* out of that. That's where the money is.

China stakes claim to S. Texas oil, gas

HOUSTON - State-owned Chinese energy giant CNOOC is buying a multibillion-dollar stake in 600,000 acres of South Texas oil and gas fields, potentially testing the political waters for further expansion into U.S. energy reserves.

With the announcement Monday that it would pay up to $2.2 billion for a one-third stake in Chesapeake Energy assets, CNOOC lays claim to a share of properties that eventually could produce up to half a million barrels a day of oil equivalent.

It also might pick up some American know-how about tapping the hard-to-get deposits trapped in dense shale rock formations, analysts said.

As part of the deal, the largest purchase of an interest in U.S. energy assets by a Chinese company, CNOOC has agreed to pay about $1.1 billion for a chunk of Chesapeake's assets in the Eagle Ford, a broad oil and gas formation that runs largely from southwest of San Antonio to the Mexican border.

CNOOC also will provide up to $1.1 billion more to cover drilling costs.

The deal represents China's second try at making a big move into the U.S. oil and gas market, following a failed bid five years ago to buy California-based Unocal Corp...

247 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:36:23pm

re: #245 laZardo

That's what Libya is for.

could be that libya and a lot of the arab spring is the work of american secret services

wouldn't put it past them

248 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:41:39pm

re: #195 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I think that Romney would serve his candidacy nicely if he said, "My American friends; I have already proven that this can not work in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts; and am determined that we do not point our country down the same path. While I am still glad that we tried; but as far as controlling costs and being affordable; this has been a cataclysmic failure. I accept full responsibility for my lack of foresight on this issue. I only wish that our Federal Government had learned a lesson about how this has turned out for our substantial, but small state."

"Vote for me, my admission of cataclysmic failure makes me the leader you're looking for." Who knows ... it might work, it is Bizarro World the GOP after all.

249 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:42:47pm

re: #248 goddamnedfrank

"Vote for me, my admission of cataclysmic failure makes me the leader you're looking for." Who knows ... it might work, it is Bizarro World the GOP after all.

that am bad!

250 Political Atheist  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:43:20pm

re: #244 austin_blue

You made a good point. My bad, effing speculators just burn my hide. Tail wagging dog and all that. Our big assets are ugly coal and cleaner than oil gas.

251 austin_blue  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:46:05pm

re: #246 Gus 802

China stakes claim to S. Texas oil, gas

Oh noes! The Heathen Chinee are gonna steal our oil and gas!

(Talk about dependence on foreign energy reserves!)

It is also rumored that the Chinese are also taking a very close look at Powder River Basin coal reserves. It's generally a lot cleaner burning than theirs. This whole bit about "Obama wants to kill coal production in the US" is BS. Foreign markets beckon.

252 Gus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:46:35pm

re: #247 engineer dog

could be that libya and a lot of the arab spring is the work of american secret services

wouldn't put it past them

But we've always purchased oil from totalitarian states -- i.e. Saudi Arabia, Venezuela. The primary customer for Libyan oil is Europe, namely France. This is why France led the charge. It wasn't really a matter of controlling that oil but maintaining stability which was and is lost because of the revolution taking place there. The goal is to stabilize Libya not for the good of the people but for maintaining the unobstructed flow of oil going to Europe.

Syria only produces about 400,000 BBL per day and has to import oil for their own needs. Egypt barely exports any oil and uses it primarily for their own needs -- 89,000 BBL per day exported.

253 SpaceJesus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:47:38pm

give texas to the china men (after ACL, which i have tickets to tho)

254 Gus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:48:49pm

re: #251 austin_blue

Oh noes! The Heathen Chinee are gonna steal our oil and gas!

(Talk about dependence on foreign energy reserves!)

It is also rumored that the Chinese are also taking a very close look at Powder River Basin coal reserves. It's generally a lot cleaner burning than theirs. This whole bit about "Obama wants to kill coal production in the US" is BS. Foreign markets beckon.

Yep. The USA still lead the world in oil consumption however China's needs are growing. World oil consumption continues to climb. I understand we hit 1 billion cars in the world today or yesterday?

255 Gus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:53:09pm

That's why Syria is SOL. Had they been big oil exporters the cavalry would have come to save the people dying there. Otherwise the world yawns because whatever effects the unrest there will have on their oil production will be only limited to themselves. Had the unrest caused major disruptions to European, American or any other large industrialized nation(s) oil supply then we'd see swift action against Assad.

256 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:54:26pm

re: #254 Gus 802

I understand we hit 1 billion cars in the world today or yesterday?

And every damned one of them is on I-35W every time there's a race at the Texas Motor Speedway. I used to work near Alliance airport, and there were days when it took me 3 hours to drive the 20 miles home just because of the damned TMS traffic.

257 austin_blue  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:55:46pm

re: #254 Gus 802

Yep. The USA still lead the world in oil consumption however China's needs are growing. World oil consumption continues to climb. I understand we hit 1 billion cars in the world today or yesterday?

And here is a solution. Why are we talking about hydrogen?

[Link: www.betterplace.com...]

258 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:56:46pm

re: #256 negativ

And every damned one of them is on I-35W every time there's a race at the Texas Motor Speedway. I used to work near Alliance airport, and there were days when it took me 3 hours to drive the 20 miles home just because of the damned TMS traffic.

y'all get a horse

259 Kragar  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:59:19pm

Bachmann campaign organizer arrested in Uganda in 2006

Peter Waldron, a self-proclaimed Christian Dominionist, is now doing faith-based organizing for Michele Bachmann in Iowa and South Carolina. In 2006, he was arrested in Uganda for having four AK-47s and 180 bullets. According to the Atlantic, one paper stated that Waldron was working with Congolese rebels to capture the leader of the Lord's Resistance Army, Joseph Kony. Another reported that Waldron was forming a Christian political party.

260 austin_blue  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 6:59:54pm

re: #256 negativ

And every damned one of them is on I-35W every time there's a race at the Texas Motor Speedway. I used to work near Alliance airport, and there were days when it took me 3 hours to drive the 20 miles home just because of the damned TMS traffic.

We obviously need to sell NASCAR fans gyrocopters. Since we got the F1 America race here last year that is located in a cow pasture in SE Travis County serviced by a two lane road, I have been pushing this idea.

Tough sell so far...

261 albusteve  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 7:02:03pm

re: #260 austin_blue

We obviously need to sell NASCAR fans gyrocopters. Since we got the F1 America race here last year that is located in a cow pasture in SE Travis County serviced by a two lane road, I have been pushing this idea.

Tough sell so far...

all venues if this sort need two interstates next to them...MIS is down a country road then VOILA!....400k people...it sucks

262 Gus  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 7:03:30pm

re: #257 austin_blue

And here is a solution. Why are we talking about hydrogen?

[Link: www.betterplace.com...]

See. We need more solutions like that. It can take care of mitigate AGW and reduce the need for petroleum. Right now we're still going full steam ahead with oil production and its use. Even if you artificially raised the price of oil/gasoline it would have no net effect. People would simply pay more and continue driving apace. Cap and trade would also have little effect IMO. What we need are real alternatives that the average consumer can use and enjoy immediately. This is done through the product end and in this case electric cars, hydrogen, etc. No schemes, no taxes, just new technology to replace the old.

263 austin_blue  Thu, Aug 18, 2011 7:15:39pm

re: #262 Gus 802

See. We need more solutions like that. It can take care of mitigate AGW and reduce the need for petroleum. Right now we're still going full steam ahead with oil production and its use. Even if you artificially raised the price of oil/gasoline it would have no net effect. People would simply pay more and continue driving apace. Cap and trade would also have little effect IMO. What we need are real alternatives that the average consumer can use and enjoy immediately. This is done through the product end and in this case electric cars, hydrogen, etc. No schemes, no taxes, just new technology to replace the old.

Many developing countries are leapfrogging old tech. Why install a phone system with land lines? Put up cell towers. Why build huge electric generation plants and the infrastructure to distribute it? Use smaller, point-sourced plants to take care of a smaller service area.

This must be the sane future. Old tech must die. Vested interests will fight it tooth and nail, but 20th century tech is unsubstainable.

*Off prophet mode.*


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