1 | Zamb Fri, Dec 20, 2013 12:51:37pm |
Seriously even an evangelical acquaintance on Facebook agrees that a&e was right to can him. Statements like this reflect badly on the whole. No company is going to let the people that work for them alienate large groups of potential customers.
2 | aagcobb Fri, Dec 20, 2013 12:51:56pm |
We should have a contest to determine the dumbest outrageous outrage of 2013. This one could be a contender.
3 | Charles Johnson Fri, Dec 20, 2013 12:55:13pm |
He tried to ignore me so I just left the fruitcake on him. Now he's pinned under it. Someone get a jack. pic.twitter.com/iZR8hadO7Y— TheBloggess (@TheBloggess) December 20, 2013
4 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 12:56:56pm |
re: #2 aagcobb
We should have a contest to determine the dumbest outrageous outrage of 2013. This one could be a contender.
Year is young heh but yes the fact that people are more outraged by this than the reports of Assad using gas on his own people in Syria has me deeply worried about my countrymen.
6 | lawhawk Fri, Dec 20, 2013 12:57:18pm |
Black people had it so good; they had their own water fountains. -Stephen Colbert
7 | Aunty Entity Dragon Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:02:29pm |
The hategasm against GLBT people and ‘libruls’ on FB and the right wing websites is…impressive.
In Praise Of Phil Robertson’s American Wilderness
By Rod Dreher • December 20, 2013, 2:10 PMA reader who wrote about l’affaire du canard:
Robertson’s comment aren’t “cringeworthy.” They are simply an echo of what Leon Kass also found out, “While he was a medical student, he met and married his wife of nearly 52 years, the classics scholar Amy Kass. The couple went on to Boston, where he completed an internal-medicine internship and earned a biochemistry Ph.D. at Harvard.
“A funny thing happened to me in graduate school,” he recalls. “My wife and I spent part of the summer of 1965 in Mississippi doing civil-rights work.” The couple lived with a black farmer in Mount Olive, Miss., in a home that had no toilet or indoor plumbing. “I came back from this place with this conundrum: Why was there more honor, goodness and decency in these unschooled black farmers than I found in my fellow graduate students at Harvard, whose enlightened and liberal opinions I shared?”
The answer, he eventually concluded, was that his black hosts displayed “the dignity of honest work and religion”—things he didn’t often find among his highly educated peers, most of whom “were only looking out for Number One.”
Like TNC said over at The Atlantic:
“The belief that black people were at their best when they were being hunted down like dogs for the sin of insisting on citizenship is a persistent strain of thought in this country.”
8 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:03:18pm |
Duck star eats crow!
Headline I’d love to see.
9 | ObserverArt Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:04:55pm |
re: #2 aagcobb
We should have a contest to determine the dumbest outrageous outrage of 2013. This one could be a contender.
We’d be doin’ The Limbo. How low can we go? Get out your poles and your polls.
And of course some Chubby Checker doin’ The Limbo Rock. “Jack be nimble, Jack be quick, Jack go under the limbo stick!
10 | b.d. Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:05:57pm |
re: #2 aagcobb
We should have a contest to determine the dumbest outrageous outrage of 2013. This one could be a contender.
The closing of the WWII Memorial during the shutdown poutrage was pretty over the top too.
11 | Amory Blaine Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:06:49pm |
Gaah! Water main broke down the street, no water. We just got a new road too.
12 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:07:59pm |
re: #10 b.d.
The closing of the WWII Memorial during the shutdown poutrage was pretty over the top too.
Yeah that one was stupid. Again it showed the utter lack of priorities people have. I mean I get that the tourists were upset but I felt worse for the people who had their medicare and social security delayed by the shutdown. But then again I am not a lacking perspective imbecile.
13 | Eclectic Cyborg Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:08:21pm |
Dear Morons,
Please show me how at ANY POINT during this mess Phil Robertson has NOT been permitted to express his religious views.
Not to mention, the 1st Amendment does NOT APPLY to dealings with a private company.
Sincerely,
A sane man
14 | jaunte Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:11:04pm |
Cons keep saying “the left” want Duck Dynasty guy fired. Who are they talking about?
— Tommy Christopher (@tommyxtopher) December 20, 2013
17 | Feline Fearless Leader Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:13:03pm |
re: #16 Eclectic Cyborg
Ok, I feel better now.
Maybe we should just exile him somewhere. How about Sudbury?
18 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:13:17pm |
re: #14 jaunte
[Embedded content]
Yeah no kidding. All I’ve said is that A&E was within their rights to fire him but I feel the same way about Martin Bashir.
19 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:13:34pm |
re: #10 b.d.
The closing of the WWII Memorial during the shutdown poutrage was pretty over the top too.
That’s true, but at least that was tangentially related to something that actually matters.
We’re not even talking about whatshisname Palin-disliking media guy, who opened his dumb mouth and got his ass fired. We’re talking about a reality TV “star”.
It’s a stupid argument being advanced by stupid people about a fundamentally stupid topic. The trifecta of poutrage, if you will.
21 | ObserverArt Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:14:17pm |
As far as stupid outrageous outrages the media even mentioning “selfie-gate” and talking about the President and the Danish Prime Minister taking a smart phone pic at the Mandela memorial service is pretty stupid.
And then there was Fox woman getting all cranky about a beer-can festivus tree getting in the way of her kids seeing a damn nativity scene.
And then…oh dear…this is going to take some time. So much to consider.
Let’s go to the Fox News tapes…
22 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:14:29pm |
All this fucking outrage over a suspension and the guy’s going to get even more profits because of the free publicity this generated. I imagine Phil and the rest of the Robertsons are laughing at the poor fools who think they’re victims. I don’t know if he planned this or not but it certainly wasn’t a bad business move.
23 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:14:54pm |
The only way this could possibly be dumber is if this Scrooge McBeardDuck character was talking about the theoretical ethnicity of Santa Claus.
24 | Feline Fearless Leader Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:15:21pm |
re: #19 erik_t
That’s true, but at least that was tangentially related to something that actually matters.
We’re not even talking about whatshisname Palin-disliking media guy, who opened his dumb mouth and got his ass fired. We’re talking about a reality TV “star”.
It’s a stupid argument being advanced by stupid people about a fundamentally stupid topic. The trifecta of poutrage, if you will.
But isn’t the RWNJ flipping their lids about something unreal essentially SOP?
25 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:15:58pm |
re: #24 Feline Fearless Leader
But isn’t the RWNJ flipping their lids about something unreal essentially SOP?
They wouldn’t be RWNJs if they didn’t so yeah.
26 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:16:10pm |
re: #15 Eclectic Cyborg
>HE DIDN’T GET FIRED!!
Yeah, I can’t repeat that enough, the man’s not been fired. He’s been put in the television equivalent of the time out chair, told he has to sit there until either A&E feels the heat has died down or he decides to leave the show. Even the family has not been so stupid as to claim he was fired.
27 | Amory Blaine Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:16:47pm |
Where’s pepper spray cop when you need him?
28 | lawhawk Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:19:43pm |
re: #27 Amory Blaine
Where’s pepper spray cop when you need him?
He’s serving a time out, and is on disability. /oh wait… he actually is on disability.
29 | b.d. Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:20:52pm |
re: #2 aagcobb
We should have a contest to determine the dumbest outrageous outrage of 2013. This one could be a contender.
OBAMA LEAVING OUT “GOD” FROM TEH GETTYSBURG ADDRESS!!/1! was a doozie too.
30 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:21:17pm |
re: #28 lawhawk
He’s serving a time out, and is on disability. /oh wait… he actually is on disability.
I can’t believe he got damages for PTSD suffering. Crazy world where a guy who pepper sprays a bunch of college kids can paint himself as a victim but then again this is a world where anti-gay bigots think people calling them bigots are the bullies and the people who want to treat other people like second class citizens are the victims.
31 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:21:47pm |
re: #29 b.d.
OBAMA LEAVING OUT “GOD” FROM TEH GETTYSBURG ADDRESS!!/1! was a doozie too.
Yeah I forgot about that one. And to go with that one, there was screetching about Obama not being at Gettysburg.
32 | Charles Johnson Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:22:06pm |
Phil Robertson's bigotry was predictable - what's more interesting is the way the entire right wing machine instantly leaped to his defense.— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) December 20, 2013
34 | b.d. Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:23:48pm |
re: #31 HappyWarrior
Yeah I forgot about that one. And to go with that one, there was screetching about Obama not being at Gettysburg.
White Jesus, White Santa storm was pretty terrific too. The wingnuts really showed their asses this year.
35 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:23:50pm |
Seriously, the timing of events, so that the uproar of Phil’s suspension falls in time for the last shopping weekend before Christmas, leaves me with no other conclusion that this was a publicity stunt. Whether the family was in on A&E’s plans or not, this stinks of a blatant cash grab. Phil gets to vent his spleen, A&E gets to look like the “good guys” for a few days, the Robertsons get a boost in popularity, and all their merchandise sells out in “solidarity.” In a few days, A&E will announce that they’d “negotiated” his return to the show, the outrage will have died out, and that’ll be that.
36 | Bulworth Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:24:06pm |
re: #22 HappyWarrior
The cultural warriors don’t actually care about this Robertson guy. But the distinction between First Amendment not First Amendment, suspended or fired, is lost on them because to them the issue is someone spoke bad about teh gay and suffered a penalty from it, which means that they, too, could be penalized for saying something about teh gay and get thrown in the FEMA death panel trailer camps, etc.
37 | Kragar Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:24:14pm |
Utah SSM challenge news
BOOM “Under the State’s reasoning, a post-menopausal woman or infertile man doesnt have a fundamental right to marry” http://t.co/pKgt9wcPfN— Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) December 20, 2013
39 | AlexRogan Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:24:45pm |
re: #22 HappyWarrior
All this fucking outrage over a suspension and the guy’s going to get even more profits because of the free publicity this generated. I imagine Phil and the rest of the Robertsons are laughing at the poor fools who think they’re victims. I don’t know if he planned this or not but it certainly wasn’t a bad business move.
As they swim in their Scrooge McDuck-sized vault of cash.
40 | Feline Fearless Leader Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:24:50pm |
re: #35 Targetpractice
Seriously, the timing of events, so that the uproar of Phil’s suspension falls in time for the last shopping weekend before Christmas, leaves me with no other conclusion that this was a publicity stunt. Whether the family was in on A&E’s plans or not, this stinks of a blatant cash grab. Phil gets to vent his spleen, A&E gets to look like the “good guys” for a few days, the Robertsons get a boost in popularity, and all their merchandise sells out in “solidarity.” In a few days, A&E will announce that they’d “negotiated” his return to the show, the outrage will have died out, and that’ll be that.
Then the NRA can contract him to do an interview and talk about the government grabbing all the guns and ammo.
////
41 | Bulworth Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:25:23pm |
re: #31 HappyWarrior
That was going to bring down his presidency as was IRS/NSA/Benghazi/Healthcare.govscandals, etc. !!!1
42 | Feline Fearless Leader Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:25:48pm |
re: #36 Bulworth
The cultural warriors don’t actually care about this Robertson guy. But the distinction between First Amendment not First Amendment, suspended or fired, is lost on them because to them the issue is someone spoke bad about teh gay and suffered a penalty from it, which means that they, too, could be penalized for saying something about teh gay and get thrown in the FEMA death panel trailer camps, etc.
Basically upset about one of “theirs” getting criticized for being a dick.
43 | Kragar Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:26:02pm |
From the decision:
The State of Utah has provided no evidence that opposite-sex marriage will be affected inany way by same-sex marriage. In the absence of such evidence, the State’s unsupported fears and speculations are insufficient to justify the State’s refusal to dignify the family relationships of its gay and lesbian citizens. Moreover, the Constitution protects the Plaintiffs’ fundamental rights, which include the right to marry and the right to have that marriage recognized by their government. These rights would be meaningless if the Constitution did not also prevent the government from interfering with the intensely personal choices an individual makes when that person decides to make a solemn commitment to another human being. The Constitution therefore protects the choice of one’s partner for all citizens, regardless of their sexual identity.
44 | aagcobb Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:26:47pm |
45 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:26:51pm |
46 | Feline Fearless Leader Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:26:53pm |
re: #39 AlexRogan
As they swim in their Scrooge McDuck-sized vault of cash.
Wouldn’t Scrooge McDuck be upset about their line of business? Pimping, and then shooting the johns (drakes) who show up?
//
47 | Kragar Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:29:00pm |
Judge strikes down Utah same-sex marriage ban http://t.co/v8E31VbDa2 via @usatoday @BryanJFischer WINNABLE WAR! #tcot #uniteblue— Kragar (@Kragar_LGF) December 20, 2013
48 | aagcobb Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:29:02pm |
re: #45 Targetpractice
And the walls come tumbling down…
Utah is number 18! I scrolled to the end, and it looks like he just made ssm immediately legal in Utah, at least until the state can get his order blocked.
49 | Lidane Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:29:23pm |
re: #43 Kragar
The State of Utah has provided no evidence that opposite-sex marriage will be affected inany way by same-sex marriage.
That’s because there aren’t any valid arguments against gay marriage. They all come down to religious freakouts or personal discomfort with gay people, and that’s not good enough.
50 | AlexRogan Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:29:31pm |
re: #46 Feline Fearless Leader
Wouldn’t Scrooge McDuck be upset about their line of business? Pimping, and then shooting the johns (drakes) who show up?
//
Shit, it’s probably his vault they’d be swimming in cash in…that is, after they shot him.
/
51 | Stanley Sea Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:30:44pm |
re: #12 HappyWarrior
Yeah that one was stupid. Again it showed the utter lack of priorities people have. I mean I get that the tourists were upset but I felt worse for the people who had their medicare and social security delayed by the shutdown. But then again I am not a lacking perspective imbecile.
Add that to the Sister Sarah Ambulance Chase list.
52 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:31:05pm |
re: #49 Lidane
That’s because there aren’t any valid arguments against gay marriage. They all come down to religious freakouts or personal discomfort with gay people, and that’s not good enough.
See also: Loving v. Virginia, where SCOTUS ultimately had to conclude that the basis of miscegenation bans was racism, not science or social order, and that was not enough to deny people a fundamental right.
53 | EPR-radar Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:31:27pm |
re: #43 Kragar
Few things are as entertaining as seeing how well anti-gay BS talking points fare in court these days.
54 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:31:53pm |
re: #51 Stanley Sea
Add that to the Sister Sarah Ambulance Chase list.
Caribou Barbie has not yet found a bandwagon she’s unwilling to jump on.
55 | lawhawk Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:33:04pm |
re: #37 Kragar
UT Fed Dist. Ct. finds UT law prohibiting #SSM is unconstitutional; similar reasoning to how NM S.Ct. ruled http://t.co/7EMksXuw5B— lawhawk (@lawhawk) December 20, 2013
The legal reasoning is similar to how NM Supreme Court ruled - particularly the part about how procreation is not a defining characteristic of marriage from a legal and constitutional point of view. The State attempted, and failed, to distinguish post-menapausal women from gays and lesbians in their inability to procreate.
I’d further note that men who have certain ailments are also unable to procreate (low sperm count, injuries, age, ED, etc.) but are not prohibited from marrying in a hetero- relationship. That goes to the crux of the argument based on procreation. It just doesn’t stand up to (intermediate) scrutiny.
56 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:34:26pm |
re: #4 erik_t
Hell,
fourfive different states have provided for gay marriage since Minnesota enacted their same-sex marriage statute.THAT WAS
140141 DAYS AGO.
I… posted that yesterday.
57 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:34:47pm |
re: #55 lawhawk
[Embedded content]
The legal reasoning is similar to how NM Supreme Court ruled - particularly the part about how procreation is not a defining characteristic of marriage from a legal and constitutional point of view. The State attempted, and failed, to distinguish post-menapausal women from gays and lesbians in their inability to procreate.I’d further note that men who have certain ailments are also unable to procreate (low sperm count, injuries, age, ED, etc.) but are not prohibited from marrying in a hetero- relationship. That goes to the crux of the argument based on procreation. It just doesn’t stand up to (intermediate) scrutiny.
Two courts in two days reaching virtually the same conclusion. Back to SCOTUS we go?
59 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:36:03pm |
re: #58 Shiplord Kirel
Hell, until he actually is fired, he’s not really had anything done to him besides being told he can’t be in the show for an episode or two, however long A&E wants him to serve out his suspension. Martin Bashir wishes he could have gotten off that easy.
60 | Amory Blaine Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:37:25pm |
re: #54 Targetpractice
Caribou Barbie has not yet found a bandwagon she’s unwilling to jump on.
That playset comes with Big Gulp cups.
61 | lawhawk Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:39:16pm |
re: #57 Targetpractice
It would seem that the UT court waited until the NM Supreme Court ruled so as to add to its own authority justifying the decision. Not particularly surprising that they were handed down within days of each other.
I’m fully expecting the state to appeal to the full 10th Circuit Court of Appeals on route to attempting an appeal to the Supreme Court.
But we now have two courts - one at the state level and a federal court in two separate states within the 10th Circuit finding the same way. Similar grounds, and both eviscerate the procreation argument as foundation for marriage.
62 | Pie-onist Overlord Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:40:08pm |
It’s time to sign off the Shabbat, so here is a thought from the Mishnah to ponder:
“What is conditional love? That of Amnon for Tamar [VB: Amnon RAPED Tamar]. And unconditional [love]? The love of David and Jonathan.” (Av 5:16)
“And Jonathan’s soul was bound to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him like his own soul” (I Shmuel 18:1). The love of David and Jonathan was an expression of the intrinsic love of the closest of friends, who love each other as if they share the same soul. Just as a person loves his own soul (as the source of his life) so he loves his friend.
Toras Chaim, Shemos p. 363b; Sha’arei Teshuvah vol. 1, p. 55b (3)
“Any love that is conditional, will cease when the condition upon which it depends vanishes. But if it is unconditional, it will never cease.”
Unconditional love transcends reasoning and comprehension. It is of the essence of the soul - for the essence of the soul loves, and longs to cleave to, the Infinite One, blessed is He.
Kuntreis HaAvoda p.31 (3)
63 | ObserverArt Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:40:37pm |
Another outrageous outrage…
Rep. Joe Barton the Obamacare web site code that stated: “you have no expectation of privacy regarding any communication or data transmitting or stored or this site” which no one could grasp was remarked out thus not making it any part of the actual site. He showed his ass pretty thoroughly in that one, and his arrogance that he was so very right as he was so very wrong was a pretty good indication of strident stupidity. A fine trait of many a Republican think-tanker.
(We’re just getting warmed up…lot of stupid outrage to cover in year 13)
64 | Amory Blaine Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:40:50pm |
They should just follow Gary Busey around again.
65 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:41:03pm |
66 | Feline Fearless Leader Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:41:28pm |
re: #43 Kragar
From the decision:
You start working through that decision is it seems outright obvious once you start from Loving vs Virginia and also see the state’s arguments trotting the same old grounds about it being a “new” right being demanded, and so forth.
The bit about the procreation requirement is a wonderful piece of legal snark.
67 | ObserverArt Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:42:45pm |
re: #39 AlexRogan
As they swim in their Scrooge McDuck-sized vault of cash.
Had to upding a reference to Scrooge McDuck in this context. Good work.
You know ol’ Scrooge McDuck answered to a call too. I think Phil has that call doen too. Its called money.
68 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:42:59pm |
re: #61 lawhawk
It would seem that the UT court waited until the NM Supreme Court ruled so as to add to its own authority justifying the decision. Not particularly surprising that they were handed down within days of each other.
I’m fully expecting the state to appeal to the full 10th Circuit Court of Appeals on route to attempting an appeal to the Supreme Court.
But we now have two courts - one at the state level and a federal court in two separate states within the 10th Circuit finding the same way. Similar grounds, and both eviscerate the procreation argument as foundation for marriage.
As a layman, both cases seem to make a strong argument in the vein of Loving that SSM bans are unconstitutional due to marriage being a fundamental right. I’m not sure that there’s any way for the Roberts court to split the baby on this one.
69 | Shiplord Kirel Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:45:16pm |
Hey, I just told one of our clients that he is a shmuck and we should be charging him extra for having to deal with his half-witted, unkempt, lice infested employees, let alone his moronic, inbred, thieving low life customers. My boss seems to have a problem with this. Fortunately, I have freedom of speech, so I am just going to tell the boss to bug off, that is the price of living in a free country.
70 | Joanne Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:45:40pm |
re: #37 Kragar
Utah SSM challenge news
Judd Legum @JuddLegum
BOOM “Under the State’s reasoning, a post-menopausal woman or infertile man doesnt have a fundamental right to marry” Scribd Document …
And there is no difference between same-sex couples who choose not to have children and those opposite-sex couples who exercise their constitutionally protected right not to procreate. See Griswold v. Connecticut , 381 U.S. 479 (1965).
As the right-wingers work tirelessly to get Griswold reversed.
71 | Dr Lizardo Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:46:55pm |
re: #68 Targetpractice
As a layman, both cases seem to make a strong argument in the vein of Loving that SSM bans are unconstitutional due to marriage being a fundamental right. I’m not sure that there’s any way for the Roberts court to split the baby on this one.
Yesterday, I said that one of these days, when the SCOTUS strikes down all anti-SSM marriage laws and state constitutional amendments - and I’m quite confident they will - their ruling will be in the vein of Loving v. Virginia.
This confirms what I’m thinking.
72 | AlexRogan Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:47:28pm |
re: #37 Kragar
Utah SSM challenge news
re: #47 Kragar
Judge strikes down Utah same-sex marriage ban t.co via @usatoday @BryanJFischer WINNABLE WAR! #tcot #uniteblue
— Kragar (@Kragar_LGF) December 20, 2013
Read more at littlegreenfootballs.com
re: #55 lawhawk
The legal reasoning is similar to how NM Supreme Court ruled - particularly the part about how procreation is not a defining characteristic of marriage from a legal and constitutional point of view. The State attempted, and failed, to distinguish post-menapausal women from gays and lesbians in their inability to procreate.
I’d further note that men who have certain ailments are also unable to procreate (low sperm count, injuries, age, ED, etc.) but are not prohibited from marrying in a hetero- relationship. That goes to the crux of the argument based on procreation. It just doesn’t stand up to (intermediate) scrutiny.
I just wonder how long it’ll take before the Mormon church and associated front groups mount a fresh offensive on this.
73 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:47:31pm |
This guy is getting married in Utah right now!
We are not married yet. This is so new. The clerk doesn't have clearance… Yet— Seth Anderson (@jsethanderson) December 20, 2013
Wany is processing our application at this second!! pic.twitter.com/kAmjHYMmfv
— Seth Anderson (@jsethanderson) December 20, 2013
Application fee is paid for
— Seth Anderson (@jsethanderson) December 20, 2013
This is happening pic.twitter.com/uTuq1peV9m
— Seth Anderson (@jsethanderson) December 20, 2013
People are crying. This is happening
— Seth Anderson (@jsethanderson) December 20, 2013
74 | ObserverArt Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:47:55pm |
re: #49 Lidane
That’s because there aren’t any valid arguments against gay marriage. They all come down to religious freakouts or personal discomfort with gay people, and that’s not good enough.
Yes. And it is constitutional. Which is going to give idjits like Duck Dynamo real problems because those Bible totin’ forefathers who he praised in the video at the previous main story here at LGF came up with this thing called rights and took away things like discrimination.
75 | Feline Fearless Leader Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:48:06pm |
re: #68 Targetpractice
As a layman, both cases seem to make a strong argument in the vein of Loving that SSM bans are unconstitutional due to marriage being a fundamental right. I’m not sure that there’s any way for the Roberts court to split the baby on this one.
Fighting against it essentially went by the wayside once it could no longer be successfully argued in front of the Court that homosexual relations were mentally aberrant.
76 | Lidane Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:48:49pm |
re: #70 Joanne
As the right-wingers work tirelessly to get Griswold reversed.
Griswold, which gives married couples the right to use birth control.
The nutters don’t think that married couples have the right to use contraception. Let that sink in a while.
77 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:49:53pm |
Happy freakin’ Friday, everyone.
Gay people married in Utah. What an excellent cap to the week that would be. A fine fresh offensive in the War on Christmas.
I shall mount the battlements post haste.
78 | Dr Lizardo Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:50:01pm |
re: #75 Feline Fearless Leader
Fighting against it essentially went by the wayside once it could no longer be successfully argued in front of the Court that homosexual relations were mentally aberrant.
Yep.
79 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:50:50pm |
re: #76 Lidane
Griswold, which gives married couples the right to use birth control.
The nutters don’t think that married couples have the right to use contraception. Let that sink in a while.
Of course not, they think there’s only one kind of sex that’s legal, and that’s between married heterosexual couples who intend to procreate. Anything else is against “God’s will” and thus immoral.
80 | Joanne Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:51:30pm |
re: #76 Lidane
Griswold, which gives married couples the right to use birth control.
The nutters don’t think that married couples have the right to use contraception. Let that sink in a while.
Exactly!
81 | AlexRogan Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:51:42pm |
82 | Joanne Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:53:18pm |
re: #79 Targetpractice
Of course not, they think there’s only one kind of sex that’s legal, and that’s between married heterosexual couples who intend to procreate. Anything else is against “God’s will” and thus immoral.
Because them icky wimmens have to be dependent upon their mens…otherwise the wrath of God right-wing social conservatives …something something.
83 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:53:47pm |
We are waiting for a few people to show up. Then sign the papers. pic.twitter.com/gl7Wu85Lph— Seth Anderson (@jsethanderson) December 20, 2013
84 | Ian G. Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:54:15pm |
re: #47 Kragar
As a certain Vice President might say, this is a BIG fucking deal.
The damn has burst, as far as I’m concerned. Maybe we’ll have gay marriage in Mississippi within 5 years.
85 | Ian G. Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:55:47pm |
re: #72 AlexRogan
I just wonder how long it’ll take before the Mormon church and associated front groups mount a fresh offensive on this.
I wonder if the Mormons will just pack it in on this. They took a lot of heat for the shenanigans they pulled in California to get gay marriage (temporarily) banned. They may not want another ugly fight on their hands.
86 | b.d. Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:56:20pm |
LOL, Yo wingnuts, while you were complaining about the duck guy, Utah happened.
87 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:56:33pm |
Santorum was right. We're only ten years away from “If I Could Turn Back Time” becoming our new National Anthem.— Gabe Ortíz (@TUSK81) December 20, 2013
88 | Eclectic Cyborg Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:56:45pm |
re: #84 Ian G.
As a certain Vice President might say, this is a BIG fucking deal.
The damn has burst, as far as I’m concerned. Maybe we’ll have gay marriage in Mississippi within 5 years.
I doubt it. MS, Lousiana, Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, Texas, Oklahoma.
I guarantee you that the legalization of SSM in those areas especially as a the result of a Federal decision could lead to an armed revolt.
I wish I was joking.
89 | Dr Lizardo Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:57:09pm |
re: #84 Ian G.
As a certain Vice President might say, this is a BIG fucking deal.
The damn has burst, as far as I’m concerned. Maybe we’ll have gay marriage in Mississippi within 5 years.
Most likely, you will; I figure by then a landmark SSM case that legalizes it nationwide will have gone through the Supreme Court.
90 | First As Tragedy, Then As Farce Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:57:56pm |
91 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:58:14pm |
I just texted my sister about, in retrospect, the Utah “gay marriage van”.
Damn you, autocorrect.
92 | First As Tragedy, Then As Farce Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:59:02pm |
re: #91 erik_t
I just texted my sister about, in retrospect, the Utah “gay marriage van”.
Damn you, autocorrect.
Something along the lines of the Scooby Doo Mystery Machine?
93 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:59:47pm |
re: #88 Eclectic Cyborg
I doubt it. MS, Lousiana, Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, Texas, Oklahoma.
I guarantee you that the legalization of SSM in those areas especially as a the result of a Federal decision could lead to an armed revolt.
I wish I was joking.
Well-fed people with working televisions like to talk about armed revolt an awful lot more than they like actually revolting.
I’m sure there will be a few isolated morons doing moronic things.
94 | Ian G. Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:00:16pm |
re: #91 erik_t
I just texted my sister about, in retrospect, the Utah “gay marriage van”.
Damn you, autocorrect.
I’m picturing something like the Chabad “Mitzvah Tanks”, except covered in rainbows and blaring ABBA and traveling down the streets of SLC, ready to grant marriage licenses to any gay couples who ask. LOL!
95 | Eclectic Cyborg Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:00:52pm |
re: #93 erik_t
Well-fed people with working televisions like to talk about armed revolt an awful lot more than they like actually revolting.
I’m sure there will be a few isolated morons doing moronic things.
I don’t know, I really think it could be a “powder keg” moment, ESPECIALLY if it happens while Obama is still President.
96 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:02:56pm |
re: #95 Eclectic Cyborg
I don’t know, I really think it could be a “powder keg” moment, ESPECIALLY if it happens while Obama is still President.
The list of things for which there has been serious armed revolt in the United States in the last hundred years, off the top of my head:
*
I’m sure facilities will rightly be on heightened alert. I am not terribly concerned about widespread badness. Not enough young people are too stressed about it. Old people don’t really revolt.
97 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:03:46pm |
re: #92 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce
Something along the lines of the Scooby Doo Mystery Machine?
I’m looking forward to the pairs of cyclists in white short sleeved shirts with black ties, headed for the Temple.
98 | Lidane Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:04:09pm |
re: #96 erik_t
Old people don’t really revolt.
Scooters are a bitch to maneuver when you’re trying to reload.
99 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:04:58pm |
@donnahicks85 @MaddowBlog we are about to sign papers now. :)— Seth Anderson (@jsethanderson) December 20, 2013
They’ve gone viral.
100 | Kragar Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:05:03pm |
Wany just got pulled away by the DA…. They are trying to stop this from happening— Seth Anderson (@jsethanderson) December 20, 2013
101 | Kragar Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:06:01pm |
re: #98 Lidane
Scooters are a bitch to maneuver when you’re trying to reload.
Got to put it in neutral first.
102 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:06:10pm |
re: #100 Kragar
Tweetdeck is a whole minute ahead of twitter.com.
103 | Lidane Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:07:20pm |
re: #2 aagcobb
We should have a contest to determine the dumbest outrageous outrage of 2013. This one could be a contender.
The fierce urgency of derp.— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) December 20, 2013
104 | Lidane Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:08:31pm |
Focused on the important things:
BREAKING: Following credit card data breach, Target CEO says store will offer 10% discount on in-store purchases this weekend. $TGT— CNBC (@CNBC) December 20, 2013
105 | Eclectic Cyborg Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:10:29pm |
106 | dog philosopher Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:12:34pm |
re: #58 Shiplord Kirel
it also protects his right to look like a cast member of the lord of the rings
107 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:15:51pm |
re: #47 Kragar
[Embedded content]
Wow Utah. I would have thought that Utah would be one of the last ones. Anyhow, it’s great how quickly this is happening. Would love to see Virginia’s struck down next.
108 | Kragar Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:16:05pm |
Me and my new husband!! My polygamous Mormon great grandparents would be so proud! pic.twitter.com/82xyh9GJoS— Seth Anderson (@jsethanderson) December 20, 2013
109 | Lidane Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:16:11pm |
Gay marriage is now legal in every state in which Mitt Romney owns a home.— Dan Zak (@MrDanZak) December 20, 2013
110 | Eclectic Cyborg Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:16:59pm |
re: #108 Kragar
[Embedded content]
Man I can’t tell you how cool it was to see that all go down in real time, I mean this happened in a span of what? 90 minutes?
Incredible.
111 | Ian G. Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:17:28pm |
re: #96 erik_t
The list of things for which there has been serious armed revolt in the United States in the last hundred years, off the top of my head:
*
I’m sure facilities will rightly be on heightened alert. I am not terribly concerned about widespread badness. Not enough young people are too stressed about it. Old people don’t really revolt.
This. There was no armed revolt over the Civil Rights Act, and that was a far more contention issue than gay marriage, howling from the Limbaugh/Palin/Drudge idiot industrial complex notwithstanding.
Also, you need young people in the streets cracking skulls for a fascist revolt to succeed. The only place I see direct action by young people is FOR gay rights (that Catholic school in Washington). Old FOX viewers on blood pressure meds won’t last long in guerrilla conflict.
112 | b.d. Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:17:32pm |
Maybe they can get Tim Tebow to fill in on Duck Dynasty for the old dude who is in time out? That should make everyone happy.
113 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:17:48pm |
114 | Eclectic Cyborg Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:18:12pm |
re: #112 b.d.
Maybe they can get Tim Tebow to fill in on Duck Dynasty for the old dude who is in time out? That should make everyone happy.
What’s he doing these days? Working at Hobby Lobby?
115 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:19:22pm |
re: #108 Kragar
[Embedded content]
Missed it. Damn customers. Leave me alone! I’m trying to watch a wedding on Twitter!
116 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:20:49pm |
@jsethanderson @maddow Congrats!?????— k.d. lang (@kdlang) December 20, 2013
117 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:21:12pm |
re: #111 Ian G.
This. There was no armed revolt over the Civil Rights Act, and that was a far more contention issue than gay marriage, howling from the Limbaugh/Palin/Drudge idiot industrial complex notwithstanding.
Also, you need young people in the streets cracking skulls for a fascist revolt to succeed. The only place I see direct action by young people is FOR gay rights (that Catholic school in Washington). Old FOX viewers on blood pressure meds won’t last long in guerrilla conflict.
Yeah that’s true. American young people even the more conservative inclined ones are left leaning when it comes to issues like this. I remember one of my college roommates. We differed on the economy but he hated the Republican position on marriage equality. Not to say we don’t have homophobes in my generation- we do but they are a minority.
118 | Aunty Entity Dragon Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:21:46pm |
re: #96 erik_t
The list of things for which there has been serious armed revolt in the United States in the last hundred years, off the top of my head:
*
I’m sure facilities will rightly be on heightened alert. I am not terribly concerned about widespread badness. Not enough young people are too stressed about it. Old people don’t really revolt.
The miner uprising in West Virginia (Battle of Blair Mountain) was pretty serious. Of course, that was over wages and near slavery conditions. The feds actually sent out bombers to attack the miners and supporters…unexploded ordnance was shown in court.
Again in West Virgina in the 70’s, there was a low level armed insurgency in Kanawaha County over “liberal” school books started by fundamentalist Alice Moore. Numerous school and county buildings were dynamited and sniper fire and shotgun attacks directed at school buses along with attempts to have various public officials arrested. Homes of children who continued to go to school were also attacked.
119 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:22:35pm |
re: #118 Aunty Entity Dragon
I meant to include a “widespread” in there. Likely too late to PIMF.
120 | Aunty Entity Dragon Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:23:20pm |
re: #111 Ian G.
This. There was no armed revolt over the Civil Rights Act, and that was a far more contention issue than gay marriage, howling from the Limbaugh/Palin/Drudge idiot industrial complex notwithstanding.
Also, you need young people in the streets cracking skulls for a fascist revolt to succeed. The only place I see direct action by young people is FOR gay rights (that Catholic school in Washington). Old FOX viewers on blood pressure meds won’t last long in guerrilla conflict.
You may have missed out on all those church bombings, burnings and lynchings that were still happening around that time in the South.
121 | GeneJockey Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:23:34pm |
122 | Lidane Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:23:43pm |
After Careful Deliberation, Baby Goes With Homosexuality http://t.co/pkwk1nyAr3 #OurAnnualYear— The Onion (@TheOnion) December 20, 2013
123 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:24:56pm |
Gay marriage is now legal in every state in which Mitt Romney owns a home.— Dan Zak (@MrDanZak) December 20, 2013
124 | GeneJockey Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:25:49pm |
re: #120 Aunty Entity Dragon
You may have missed out on all those church bombings, burnings and lynchings that were still happening around that time in the South.
There’s a difference between isolated terrorist acts - bad as they are - and the sort of organized, armed insurrection I think we’re talking about. We have an example of that, and strangely enough, it was the same damned states that time!
125 | Ian G. Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:26:43pm |
re: #120 Aunty Entity Dragon
You may have missed out on all those church bombings, burnings and lynchings that were still happening around that time in the South.
Big difference between (relatively) isolated incidents of violence, and a full blown armed insurrection. And I’m not discounting the possibility of violence by the far right against gay marriage. It’s just not going to be Civil War II.
edit: what Gene Jockey said.
126 | Ian G. Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:28:40pm |
Anyway, nothing from Fischer’s twitter feed about Utah yet? Maybe he’s having a laugh about it considering he places Mormons just below gays on his hate list (it’s longer than the Oxford English Dictionary).
127 | b.d. Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:28:54pm |
‘Duck Dynasty’ star Phil Robertson appears to verbally attack gay people in newly emerged videoRead more: nydailynews.com
Footage has purportedly surfaced showing the 67-year-old saying homosexuals are “ruthless,” “full of murder,” “arrogant” and “liable to invent ways of doing evil.”
“They bow down to birds, animals and reptiles and each other and the first thing you see coming out of them is gross sexual immorality,” he adds, preacher-like, on the clip.
Read more: nydailynews.com
WE LIKE HIM MOAR NOW!!!1!!
128 | Aunty Entity Dragon Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:29:16pm |
re: #124 GeneJockey
There’s a difference between isolated terrorist acts - bad as they are - and the sort of organized, armed insurrection I think we’re talking about. We have an example of that, and strangely enough, it was the same damned states that time!
To be honest, I think we are in real danger of seeing that again, although I do not think that gay marriage would be the trigger. The right wing fan base has been primed for the last twenty years to be ready for the next race war/communist takeover/Agenda 21/Wolverines!! bloodbath, and political scientists the last couple of years keep comparing our political divisions and discourse to the conditions of 1850. That is not a good thing at all.
129 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:30:32pm |
re: #126 Ian G.
Anyway, nothing from Fischer’s twitter feed about Utah yet? Maybe he’s having a laugh about it considering he places Mormons just below gays on his hate list (it’s longer than the Oxford English Dictionary).
Utah is also full of bears!!!
130 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:30:34pm |
re: #126 Ian G.
Anyway, nothing from Fischer’s twitter feed about Utah yet? Maybe he’s having a laugh about it considering he places Mormons just below gays on his hate list (it’s longer than the Oxford English Dictionary).
I find it interesting he hates Mormons so much. He’s from Idaho I believe. Lots of Mormons there.
131 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:31:02pm |
132 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:32:23pm |
Sólo una madre sabe lo que quiere decir amar y ser feliz. pic.twitter.com/6kXvdvnG68— Paisajes Geográficos (@PaisajeGeo) December 20, 2013
133 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:32:32pm |
re: #131 HappyWarrior
Great now gay Utah bears can get married.
Gay Utah bears could already get married to Utah bears of the other gender, and so had exactly the same equal rights as the rest of bearkind.
134 | Aunty Entity Dragon Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:32:37pm |
re: #131 HappyWarrior
Great now gay Utah bears can get married.
I support the right to keep and arm bears.
google.com
135 | Kragar Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:32:41pm |
I wonder how many people just started following @JustineSacco so they can see what happens when she finally checks her twitter— Kragar (@Kragar_LGF) December 20, 2013
136 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:33:16pm |
re: #133 erik_t
Gay Utah bears could already get married to Utah bears of the other gender, and so had exactly the same equal rights as the rest of bearkind.
Thank You Representative Bachmann for that wisdom.
137 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:34:01pm |
re: #134 Aunty Entity Dragon
I support the right to keep and arm bears.
google.com
There was a fun game I had for the PC back in the day- Deer Avenger. You played a deer hunting hunters. Amusing concept.
138 | First As Tragedy, Then As Farce Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:34:34pm |
oh man i just realized it's possible that some other reality tv stars might have objectionable views about things— Andy Levy (@andylevy) December 20, 2013
139 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:35:21pm |
Joe Arpaio Loses: New Times Co-Founders Win $3.75 Million Settlement for 2007 False Arrests http://t.co/39j0sU8IQs— Matthew Hendley (@MatthewHendley) December 20, 2013
140 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:36:14pm |
Hm. Reasonable? Don’t like the title but the body content is what matters-
Why is our go-to political strategy for beating our opponents to silence them? Why do we dismiss, rather than engage them? One of the biggest pop-culture icons of today just took center stage to “educate” us about sexuality. I see this as an opportunity to further the discussion, to challenge his limited understanding of human desire, to engage with him and his rather sizable audience — most of whom, by the way, probably share his views — and to rise above the endless sea of tweet-hate to help move our LGBT conversations to where they need to go.
Read more: The ‘Duck Dynasty’ Fiasco Says More About Our Bigotry Than Phil’s | TIME.com ideas.time.com
141 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:36:16pm |
142 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:36:33pm |
143 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:38:36pm |
re: #140 Political Atheist
Hm. Reasonable?
I wasn’t aware that Phil had been silenced by anybody. Certainly GQ is still selling issues and Phil’s still talking to the press. So what exactly is the point to this concern trolling besides the repetition of the idea that the mass expression of outrage is somehow “wrong” because the bigots should be “engaged” in “discussion”?
144 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:38:43pm |
re: #140 Political Atheist
Hm. Reasonable?
People like Robertson who think homosexuality is like bestiality aren’t going to listen to arguments like the fact that homosexuality is natural and has been around for ages and that comparing consensual adult sex to bestiality is moronic. I don’t want Robertson “shut-down” but at the same time, I don’t see how you can expect to reason with such a man. Maybe if one of his sons or relatives were gay, he’d see that homosexuals are human beings just like everyone else.
145 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:38:45pm |
re: #140 Political Atheist
Hm. Reasonable?
Why is our go-to political strategy for beating our opponents to silence them? Why do we dismiss, rather than engage them?
Grumpypants McDuckCall has had every rational and thoughtful argument of his discussed with him at length. (All zero of them.)
How, precisely, does one “engage” in discussion with a person that simply says “my 2000 year old book says teh gayz are evil with the buttsex”?
This is an honest question, and I’d like you to either answer it or agree with me that, no, that Time statement is not reasonable.
146 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:39:13pm |
re: #143 Targetpractice
I wasn’t aware that Phil had been silenced by anybody. Certainly GQ is still selling issues and Phil’s still talking to the press. So what exactly is the point to this concern trolling besides the repetition of the idea that the mass expression of outrage is somehow “wrong” because the bigots should be “engaged” in “discussion”?
Apparently we’;re bigots for calling out bigotry. This is a strange world.
147 | Flounder Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:39:27pm |
re: #5 jaunte
That’s an Amish beard, who is he trying to fool?
148 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:39:43pm |
re: #145 erik_t
Grumpypants McDuckCall has had every rational and thoughtful argument of his discussed with him at length. (All zero of them.)
How, precisely, does one “engage” in discussion with a person that simply says “my 2000 year old book says teh gayz are evil with the buttsex”?
This is an honest question, and I’d like you to either answer it or agree with me that, no, that Time statement is not reasonable.
Said it better than I could.
149 | Dr Lizardo Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:39:56pm |
re: #139 wrenchwench
[Embedded content]
How much has that assclown Arpaio cost the Maricopa County by now? It’s gotta be a pretty significant dollar amount.
What a fuckstick.
150 | AlexRogan Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:40:31pm |
re: #111 Ian G.
This. There was no armed revolt over the Civil Rights Act, and that was a far more contention issue than gay marriage, howling from the Limbaugh/Palin/Drudge idiot industrial complex notwithstanding.
Also, you need young people in the streets cracking skulls for a fascist revolt to succeed. The only place I see direct action by young people is FOR gay rights (that Catholic school in Washington). Old FOX viewers on blood pressure meds won’t last long in guerrilla conflict.
It’s much easier to be all-in for revolution when you have little/nothing to lose, than it is when have everything to lose.
151 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:40:51pm |
re: #140 Political Atheist
Hm. Reasonable? Don’t like the title but the body content is what matters-
What a pile of manure. Besides what’s been said just above me, how can he quibble over whether the Duck guy is a bigot while completely ignoring his remarks about black people?
152 | KiTA Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:41:02pm |
It gets worse:
“Phil Robertson video emerges: “Gays are insolent, arrogant, god-haters. They are heartless. They are faithless. They are senseless. They are ruthless. They invent ways of doing evil.” (heavy.com)”
153 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:42:22pm |
re: #151 wrenchwench
What a pile of manure. Besides what’s been said just above me, how can he quibble over whether the Duck guy is a bigot while completely ignoring his remarks about black people?
Yeah there’s seem to be ignoring the ignorant comments he made about African-Americans too that “they were happier back then.” For a man who grew up in the Jim Crow south that was a profoundly ignorant thing to say.
154 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:42:43pm |
re: #152 KiTA
It gets worse:
“Phil Robertson video emerges: “Gays are insolent, arrogant, god-haters. They are heartless. They are faithless. They are senseless. They are ruthless. They invent ways of doing evil.” (heavy.com)”
Wonderful thing about the Internet these days, when somebody tries to argue that they’ve never said something or that they’re being accused of having views they’ve never expressed, somebody in the world has a video or a long-lost editorial that says exactly the opposite and will be quick to post it to the web.
156 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:43:27pm |
re: #152 KiTA
It gets worse:
Let’s call this guy for what he is. He’s a bigot and I am glad that he’s being seen as such and I am glad that conservatives who are defending him are showing their true colors by showing they care more about some homophobic bigot having a soap box than homosexuals being respected under the law.
157 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:43:48pm |
This couple looks like they may have hunted ducks at some time:
This couple just got their Utah marriage license as well. pic.twitter.com/sJejiBYUOz— Alex Cabrero (@KSL_AlexCabrero) December 20, 2013
158 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:44:53pm |
re: #145 erik_t
Grumpypants McDuckCall has had every rational and thoughtful argument of his discussed with him at length. (All zero of them.)
How, precisely, does one “engage” in discussion with a person that simply says “my 2000 year old book says teh gayz are evil with the buttsex”?
This is an honest question, and I’d like you to either answer it or agree with me that, no, that Time statement is not reasonable.
This.
159 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:45:28pm |
When a pig writhes around in manure and some manure is flung onto your suitcoat, one does not say “Say there, Mr. Pig! Pray, would you please refigure your manure-writhing technique so as to minimize the frequency and severity of airborne manure-particles? I dare say my suit coat is rather less dandy than it was before, and I think you’ll agree we’ll both be better off by keeping the manure where it belongs!”
You move further away from the pig, because it’s a pig and it’s rolling around in a big pile of shit.
160 | Kragar Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:47:26pm |
In which an Obama judicial nominee epically trolls a conservative Supreme Court justice: http://t.co/NwgqEBbkSh— Dylan Scott (@dylanlscott) December 20, 2013
161 | freetoken Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:47:56pm |
162 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:48:11pm |
re: #145 erik_t
Grumpypants McDuckCall has had every rational and thoughtful argument of his discussed with him at length. (All zero of them.)
How, precisely, does one “engage” in discussion with a person that simply says “my 2000 year old book says teh gayz are evil with the buttsex”?
This is an honest question, and I’d like you to either answer it or agree with me that, no, that Time statement is not reasonable.
I think you engage in conversation with a guy like Phil the same as with anyone you have a fundamental disagreement with. Might be race, might be conservative vs progressive. Might be sexuality.
163 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:48:39pm |
re: #159 erik_t
When a pig writhes around in manure and some manure is flung onto your suitcoat, one does not say “Say there, Mr. Pig! Pray, would you please refigure your manure-writhing technique so as to minimize the frequency and severity of airborne manure-particles? I dare say my suit coat is rather less dandy than it was before, and I think you’ll agree we’ll both be better off by keeping the manure where it belongs!”
You move further away from the pig, because it’s a pig and it’s rolling around in a big pile of shit.
Shall I accuse you of trying to silence the pig now? By denying him his manure-flinging platform, or at least its proximity to your suit coat?
164 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:49:48pm |
re: #163 wrenchwench
Shall I accuse you of trying to silence the pig now? By denying him his manure-flinging platform, or at least its proximity to your suit coat?
Why, that’s the First Pig Amendment!!!!!1
165 | gwangung Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:50:00pm |
re: #156 HappyWarrior
Let’s call this guy for what he is. He’s a bigot and I am glad that he’s being seen as such and I am glad that conservatives who are defending him are showing their true colors by showing they care more about some homophobic bigot having a soap box than homosexuals being respected under the law.
I am all for calling these yo-yos out. Give ‘em all the light we can pour on ‘em.
It really doesn’t matter to me if he keeps his show or not—-I can implore people to not watch it, and it’s their decision to do so or not.
That’s not silencing. That’s the essence of the free market place of ideas.
166 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:50:52pm |
re: #151 wrenchwench
So you don’t see a scintilla of over reaction? Have we not elevated this beyond where it should go, enhanced his reputation among fundamentalists and ensured bigger rating and Duck merch sales?
Our collective anger has merit, but in some ways that backfires. I guess this could be put another way-Seek to punish or seek to reform the man in the wrong?
167 | freetoken Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:51:28pm |
re: #165 gwangung
That’s the essence of the free market place of ideas.
Wait…. I thought Obamacare destroyed the free market.
… am I getting my memes confused again..?.?.?
168 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:51:54pm |
Thing is what do you say or respond to someone who thinks people of different races are an abomination and that God created them way to “punish” them. That’s the same line of thought we’re dealing with Mr. Robertson in regards to homosexuality here. In both cases, you have someone using scripture to justify his feelings on someone who is different than he is. So, I don’t know what the author of that Time piece expects us to say. Homosexuals are human beings. They’re not sexual deviants. They’re people who just happen to be attracted to members of the same sex. I have a bigger problem with someone being a Yankees fan than I do them being attracted to other men or women. I kind of jest about the last one being I have many Yankees fans that I call friend.
169 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:52:58pm |
re: #162 Political Atheist
I think you engage in conversation with a guy like Phil the same as with anyone you have a fundamental disagreement with. Might be race, might be conservative vs progressive. Might be sexuality.
All well and good, but what does that have to do with the present situation? Should A&E have held off on suspending him so that we a “discussion” might have been “engaged” in?
170 | Shiplord Kirel Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:54:18pm |
re: #96 erik_t
Old people don’t really revolt.
Oh, I don’t know. Some of my fellow seniors are pretty revolting.
171 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:54:52pm |
Gay rights activists have been trying to have this “discussion” for years. It’s not their fault that Mr. Robertson wants to be pig-headed in his views. He I have no doubt has known actual gay people. The problem I see with many anti-gay bigots, yes bigots like Mr. Robertson is they see homosexuals as these outsiders who are somehow outside their lives.
172 | Lidane Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:55:04pm |
re: #166 Political Atheist
Have we not elevated this beyond where it should go, enhanced his reputation among fundamentalists and ensured bigger rating and Duck merch sales?
Sure. The whole thing is an overblown, entirely manufactured outrage.
He wanted off the show. He handed A&E a way for him to leave the show just in time for the holiday shopping season and for them to look good to the majority of their viewers and advertisers. Now everyone involved stands to make more money in the long run. It’s all win-win.
173 | freetoken Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:55:22pm |
We ought not be surprised that a fundamentalist has had a (for cable television) successful show in the USA.
174 | Eclectic Cyborg Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:56:57pm |
re: #173 freetoken
We ought not be surprised that a fundamentalist has had a (for cable television) successful show in the USA.
19 kids and counting?
/
175 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:57:33pm |
re: #166 Political Atheist
So you don’t see a scintilla of over reaction? Have we not elevated this beyond where it should go, enhanced his reputation among fundamentalists and ensured bigger rating and Duck merch sales?
Our collective anger has merit, but in some ways that backfires. I guess this could be put another way-Seek to punish or seek to reform the man in the wrong?
The whole thing has gotten way more attention than it deserves. I don’t have a TV, so I don’t even know how much attention that is. But I have heard nothing spoken against the head bigot of that show that I thought was overstated. There simply is nothing to discuss when someone spews that kind of ignorant hate. His mind is a twisted wreck of diseased putty.
Any suggestion that criticism should be withheld because it will enhance his reputation with fellow bigots is silly. Why silence those who protest hate?
I seek neither to punish nor to reform, but only to denounce bigotry.
176 | Decatur Deb Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:57:57pm |
177 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:58:07pm |
re: #174 Eclectic Cyborg
19 kids and counting?/
Yeah it’s pretty awkward when you’re older than your full uncle or aunt. I mean my grandmother was older than her nephew but it was her half sister’s son not full sister.
178 | GeneJockey Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:58:27pm |
re: #140 Political Atheist
Hm. Reasonable? Don’t like the title but the body content is what matters-
His concern is noted.
Seriously, though - by the time I heard about it, less than 12 hr into the kerfuffle, he’d already been suspended by A&E. If there was a big campaign to get rid of him, it must have been organized PDQ, and done its work between Wednesday night and Thursday morning.
For most of ‘The Left’, they heard what he said and that it got him suspended in the same story, so I’m wondering about the alleged call to force him out. Certainly the cataclysmic whining from the Right has overwhelmed any outrage from the left, in terms of volume. And that’s volume defined as either amount or loudness.
WRT the author not being sure Phil Robertson is REALLY homophobic, well, I think that ship just sailed. See above.
179 | Eclectic Cyborg Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:58:48pm |
180 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:59:39pm |
Husband and husband….in Utah. :) pic.twitter.com/E91zhTj8MR— Seth Anderson (@jsethanderson) December 20, 2013
181 | GeneJockey Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:01:06pm |
re: #166 Political Atheist
So you don’t see a scintilla of over reaction? Have we not elevated this beyond where it should go, enhanced his reputation among fundamentalists and ensured bigger rating and Duck merch sales?
Our collective anger has merit, but in some ways that backfires. I guess this could be put another way-Seek to punish or seek to reform the man in the wrong?
Yes, but not here. I see it on the Right, where they’re talking as if the Gov’t sent in storm troops to cut the cables at A&E to prevent Duck Dynasty from going on the air.
182 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:01:08pm |
re: #169 Targetpractice
Actually a suspension is more like it than an outright dismissal. Look don’t think I’m here to defend Phil, or the show.
My point is there might be a more effective or helpful way to call him out than removing him from the show permanently. Maybe. Reflexively hating on southern conservatives ain’t it. Lots of that out there too.
183 | Lidane Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:01:18pm |
“Because I’m a fucking moron” was apparently not nuanced enough for this guy:
GOP candidate explains why he compared “Duck Dynasty” star to Rosa Parks: http://t.co/q8X7Qi5FBO— Talking Points Memo (@TPM) December 20, 2013
184 | ObserverArt Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:01:32pm |
re: #166 Political Atheist
So you don’t see a scintilla of over reaction? Have we not elevated this beyond where it should go, enhanced his reputation among fundamentalists and ensured bigger rating and Duck merch sales?
Our collective anger has merit, but in some ways that backfires. I guess this could be put another way-Seek to punish or seek to reform the man in the wrong?
You can call it over reaction, but it could also be called a natural reaction to something a lot of people are getting sick of. If it is a small group of people making an inordinate amount of noise, like say Palin, Fischer, Beck, Hannity, etc. then it is an over reaction. If it is a large segment of the public awakened by stupid crap they are tired of so they discuss it for a few days and want it changed, that is natural.
Things change by numbers so then large numbers precede the change. I don’t think it can be downplayed.
185 | fern01 Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:02:52pm |
re: #76 Lidane
Griswold, which gives married couples the right to use birth control.
The nutters don’t think that married couples have the right to use contraception. Let that sink in a while.
Folks have been using contraception since Adam was a boy - what the nutters want to stop is WOMEN being able to control their fertility - the Connecticut law against contraception was passed in 1879 - but mainly ignored - until, surprise - the pill made contraception available to women without the consent and/or knowledge of her male partner.
186 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:04:13pm |
re: #183 Lidane
“Because I’m a fucking moron” was apparently not nuanced enough for this guy:
[Embedded content]
Oh yes the persecution of people who are open Christians. Such horse fucking shit. Tired of Christians like this guy claim they are the victims of persecution in their pathetic quest to persecute people who aren’t like them. The guy likened homosexuality to bestiality. He got called out for it. He was NOT arrested. He’s not anything like Rosa Parks. If anything, he’s like the people who arrested Rosa Parks since he’s stuck in the past with backass backwards views on people different from him.
187 | Lidane Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:04:16pm |
re: #182 Political Atheist
My point is there might be a more effective or helpful way to call him out than removing him from the show permanently. Maybe. Reflexively hating on southern conservatives ain’t it. Lots of that out there too.
And the larger point is that he wanted off the show anyway. What does he care if he gets suspended? He didn’t want to be on there in the first place.
Now he gets to pull from the wingnut welfare train by fleecing even more rubes for book sales, speaking fees, etc. Plus his companies will now make even more money. He wins no matter what, so why not point out that he’s a raging bigot? It’s what he wanted anyhow.
188 | AlexRogan Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:05:43pm |
re: #170 Shiplord Kirel
Oh, I don’t know. Some of my fellow seniors are pretty revolting.
They stink on ice?
189 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:05:56pm |
re: #184 ObserverArt
re: #181 GeneJockey
I think timing and accident has a lot to do with the volume. Slow news moment for examples. Show just getting renewed.
The anger itself has become popular like a hit song. And BTW highly highly counter productive if you want to make those guys have less money, fewer viewers or sell less merchandise.
190 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:05:57pm |
re: #182 Political Atheist
Actually a suspension is more like it than an outright dismissal. Look don’t think I’m here to defend Phil, or the show.
My point is there might be a more effective or helpful way to call him out than removing him from the show permanently. Maybe. Reflexively hating on southern conservatives ain’t it. Lots of that out there too.
I’ve noted time and again that the man was only suspended, not outright dismissed and from the sounds of things behind the scenes is the one who will ultimately decide if he quits or not.
A&E made a business decision, according to their spokespeople it was shortly after receiving a call from GLAAD. I’m not aware of any public campaign to have him fired from the show or even punished in any way. Even now, it does not appear that there is a consensus on what should happen, though there appears to be one that says if he or the show should be taken off the air, none of his critics will shed any tears.
191 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:06:09pm |
re: #182 Political Atheist
Actually a suspension is more like it than an outright dismissal. Look don’t think I’m here to defend Phil, or the show.
My point is there might be a more effective or helpful way to call him out than removing him from the show permanently. Maybe. Reflexively hating on southern conservatives ain’t it. Lots of that out there too.
I don’t think anyone is reflexively hating on Southern conservatives though many do seem to agree with Mr. Robertson’s views on homosexuality as seen with past votes on gay marriage in many Southern states.. Not sure where you get that one. What we are hating on is a fundamentalist way of looking at the world. I look down on Phil’s worldview the same way I do a Islamic fundamentalist who thinks only the Quran can tell us how to live.
192 | Justanotherhuman Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:06:32pm |
re: #166 Political Atheist
So you don’t see a scintilla of over reaction? Have we not elevated this beyond where it should go, enhanced his reputation among fundamentalists and ensured bigger rating and Duck merch sales?
Our collective anger has merit, but in some ways that backfires. I guess this could be put another way-Seek to punish or seek to reform the man in the wrong?
Well, as I recall, having been around during the Civil Rights era, someone, even a public figure sometimes, using the “n” word never suffered a loss of face, employment or profits because a lot of people agreed with them. You could sit around the office all day long opining on “n———s” and no one would call you on it. Well, I hated the word and was ostracized more than once for calling someone on it.
I don’t think these Robertson yahoos will suffer financially, probably not at all. Watch A&E find out this has been good publicity and back down. Although if 67 yr old Phil retires from the show, as he said he was considering, there probably won’t be a 5th season of this lot.
193 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:08:02pm |
re: #183 Lidane
“Because I’m a fucking moron” was apparently not nuanced enough for this guy:
[Embedded content]
Moron is right.
“So having seen that I believe and I thought it was complementary to Rosa Parks because I see Rosa Parks as a courageous person that stood up in the face of a system that was bad and said hey, enough is enough,” Bayne said.
It’s ‘complimentary’ (although that would not be the speaker’s fault for spelling it wrong) and Rosa Parks sat down.
194 | freetoken Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:08:51pm |
Meanwhile, behind the curtains:
Not just the Koch brothers: New Drexel study reveals funders behind the climate change denial effort
A new study conducted by Drexel University’s environmental sociologist Robert J. Brulle, PhD, exposes the organizational underpinnings and funding behind the powerful climate change countermovement. This study marks the first peer-reviewed, comprehensive analysis ever conducted of the sources of funding that maintain the denial effort.
Through an analysis of the financial structure of the organizations that constitute the core of the countermovement and their sources of monetary support, Brulle found that, while the largest and most consistent funders behind the countermovement are a number of well-known conservative foundations, the majority of donations are “dark money,” or concealed funding.
[…]
Key findings include:
Conservative foundations have bank-rolled denial. The largest and most consistent funders of organizations orchestrating climate change denial are a number of well-known conservative foundations, such as the Searle Freedom Trust, the John William Pope Foundation, the Howard Charitable Foundation and the Sarah Scaife Foundation. These foundations promote ultra-free-market ideas in many realms.
Koch and ExxonMobil have recently pulled back from publicly visible funding. From 2003 to 2007, the Koch Affiliated Foundations and the ExxonMobil Foundation were heavily involved in funding climate-change denial organizations. But since 2008, they are no longer making publicly traceable contributions.
Funding has shifted to pass through untraceable sources. Coinciding with the decline in traceable funding, the amount of funding given to denial organizations by the Donors Trust has risen dramatically. Donors Trust is a donor-directed foundation whose funders cannot be traced. This one foundation now provides about 25% of all traceable foundation funding used by organizations engaged in promoting systematic denial of climate change.
Most funding for denial efforts is untraceable. Despite extensive data compilation and analyses, only a fraction of the hundreds of millions in contributions to climate change denying organizations can be specifically accounted for from public records. Approximately 75% of the income of these organizations comes from unidentifiable sources.
[…]
195 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:09:02pm |
re: #187 Lidane
Right. we got played, and few want to recognize that in an effective fashion. I.E. more high emotion attention plays into his hands, not ours.
196 | goddamnedfrank Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:09:20pm |
re: #189 Political Atheist
And BTW highly highly counter productive if you want to make those guys have less money, fewer viewers or sell less merchandise.
Why would any of those be the goal? I think we’re just at the point where gays as a community aren’t going to sit quietly while they’re labeled as equivalent to dog fucking terrorists. And, as a community, their and their supporters’ buying power is probably at least on par with the bigots.
197 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:09:33pm |
re: #193 wrenchwench
Moron is right.
It’s ‘complimentary’ (although that would not be the speaker’s fault for spelling it wrong) and Rosa Parks sat down.
I think it’s pretty pathetic that he thinks calling people animal fuckers is the same as standing up against a system of racial discrimination but then again he is a moron- a moron who could very well be in our rCongress next year (I don’t know anything about that district.)
198 | gwangung Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:09:48pm |
re: #166 Political Atheist
So you don’t see a scintilla of over reaction?
Over thinking that he’s an idiot and a bigot? Hell, no. Why are you complaining? Trying to muzzle our First Amendment rights?
Long as I can take potshots at a public figure and call it like I see ‘em…
199 | GeneJockey Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:10:20pm |
re: #182 Political Atheist
Actually a suspension is more like it than an outright dismissal. Look don’t think I’m here to defend Phil, or the show.
My point is there might be a more effective or helpful way to call him out than removing him from the show permanently. Maybe. Reflexively hating on southern conservatives ain’t it. Lots of that out there too.
In my case it’s not reflexive. I came to it gradually, by experience. I eventually realized that Southern Conservatives were one of two kinds of people: the kind who owned slaves and sent hundreds of thousands off to die so they could keep owning, buying, and selling people like cattle; and the gullible chumps that the first group convinced to go off and die so that they could keep owning, buying, and selling people like cattle.
Today, the descendants of those same two groups are now either rich people who think that workers deserve as little as they can get away with paying them, and gullible chumps - middle-class and working people who find themselves not being paid enough, and blame poor people and other workers rather than the rich people who pay them.
And BOTH of them think it’s any of their damn business what two consenting adults do, and want to use the power of the State to prevent it while complaining about freedom.
200 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:10:35pm |
re: #189 Political Atheist
I think timing and accident has a lot to do with the volume. Slow news moment for examples. Show just getting renewed.
The anger itself has become popular like a hit song. And BTW highly highly counter productive if you want to make those guys have less money, fewer viewers or sell less merchandise.
Are you proposing that we quit criticizing bigots because it only gives them more attention?
201 | Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:10:57pm |
re: #140 Political Atheist
Hm. Reasonable? Don’t like the title but the body content is what matters-
Good article and I wish more people were thinking along those lines. I think the problem is human nature. People find it empowering to hurt others with different ideas. Advertisers are corporate employers usually avoid controversy because it hurts profits so catering to the loudest, most sensitive or most outraged members of society has become common place. I think it’d be more effective to debate people with different ideas but most people find it more emotionally satisfying to get them fired or chase them out of the public arena.
202 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:11:01pm |
re: #166 Political Atheist
So you don’t see a scintilla of over reaction? Have we not elevated this beyond where it should go, enhanced his reputation among fundamentalists and ensured bigger rating and Duck merch sales?
Our collective anger has merit, but in some ways that backfires. I guess this could be put another way-Seek to punish or seek to reform the man in the wrong?
He’s a dumbshit standing outside in the cold, petulantly facing away with crossed arms and a big frown.
The door isn’t locked. The porch light is on. Whenever he wants to come join us adults in polite society, I’ll welcome him with open arms.
If you think I’m going to go try to lure him in with treats and sweet nothings, well, he’s a big boy. He can make his own decision.
203 | darthstar Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:11:14pm |
@vizzon11 What does the press say? “Yip yip yip yip yip yip yip!” @jaketapper and his ilk are a bunch of drama whores. #facepalm— Sean McCabe (@darthstar99) December 20, 2013
Tapper’s asinine tweet:
Edward Snowden casts long shadow on Obama #TheLead http://t.co/FpwfOT7cJe— Jake Tapper (@jaketapper) December 20, 2013
204 | freetoken Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:12:19pm |
Reuters runs with this headline:
Obama says healthcare rollout was biggest mistake of 2013
SEE! SEE! EVEN OBUMMER REALIZES OBAMACARE WILL DESTROY AMERICA!!
Reuters - where English is a flexible language.
205 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:13:28pm |
re: #191 HappyWarrior
I don’t think anyone is reflexively hating on Southern conservatives though many do seem to agree with Mr. Robertson’s views on homosexuality as seen with past votes on gay marriage in many Southern states.. Not sure where you get that one. What we are hating on is a fundamentalist way of looking at the world. I look down on Phil’s worldview the same way I do a Islamic fundamentalist who thinks only the Quran can tell us how to live.
You are aware that the term redneck is an insult, a pejorative term for rural/southern people right? That’s a word that gets thrown around a lot, and not just since this came up. keep in mind I refer to the media and the blogs out there in general, not a complaint about LGF.
Why should a southerner be any less offended at “redneck’ coming from an angry broad brushing critic than an African American at the “N” word?
206 | freetoken Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:13:47pm |
The web page problems for Healthcare.gov are among the most trivial things, compared to the big picture stuff of history.
Really, folks, it’s just an inconvenience if a website doesn’t save your data.
207 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:13:49pm |
re: #201 Killgore Trout
Good article and I wish more people were thinking along those lines. I think the problem is human nature. People find it empowering to hurt others with different ideas. Advertisers are corporate employers usually avoid controversy because it hurts profits so catering to the loudest, most sensitive or most outraged members of society has become common place. I think it’d be more effective to debate people with different ideas but most people find it more emotionally satisfying to get them fired or chase them out of the public arena.
I’ll ask you the same thing, I asked PA. How do you reasonably debate with a human being who thinks your gay friends and family are equivalent to people who screw animals? There’s disagreement like say on fiscal policy where two people can reasonably disagree and then there’s something like this where an individual is likening an entire community to people who screw animals. If you want reasonable debate, you don’t talk the way in the first place. Don’t blame people who take issue with their friends and family being insulted that way and act like the person who made the comments is just being bullied. Robertson knew exactly what he was doing here and he’s not going to be a poorer man for ti- Hell I wager to bet he’ll be wealthier.
208 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:14:10pm |
re: #195 Political Atheist
Right. we got played, and few want to recognize that in an effective fashion. I.E. more high emotion attention plays into his hands, not ours.
You’ll forgive me, but it reads (at least to me) as though you’re trying to argue that those who are offended by Robertson’s words and those of like-minded bigots should bite off their outrage and instead stick strictly to “discussion,” as though we’re talking about two reasonable and logical parties rather than one which is pounding a 2000 yr old book of fairy tales and bellowing that any who “sin” are not simply wrong, but “evil.”
209 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:14:13pm |
re: #205 Political Atheist
Why should a southerner be any less offended at “redneck’ coming from an angry broad brushing critic than an African American at the “N” word?
What the fuck is this shit?!
210 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:14:23pm |
re: #205 Political Atheist
Why should a southerner be any less offended at “redneck’ coming from an angry broad brushing critic than an African American at the “N” word?
OFFS.
You aren’t serious, are you?
211 | ObserverArt Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:15:33pm |
re: #189 Political Atheist
I think timing and accident has a lot to do with the volume. Slow news moment for examples. Show just getting renewed.
The anger itself has become popular like a hit song. And BTW highly highly counter productive if you want to make those guys have less money, fewer viewers or sell less merchandise.
Are you just seeing it one way though? How about letting it play out and see if it is another building block in things changing. Stuff takes time. You’d have to admit with what happened in a state like Utah today when viewed against Phil DuckHead it is going to make people really have to think and when viewed historically is another block in the building of gay rights.
Maybe they are a dynamic reflective of the times and the reactions on both sides are of that reflection. Ducks one day, two days later Utah. Rather dramatic.
If someone could plot out the line from say something like the Stonewall Riots in 1969 to where gay rights are this very day, I’d think you’d be impressed with that plot line and a rather rapid increase in the last say, five years. Is the reaction on that same kind of a line?
212 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:15:35pm |
re: #200 wrenchwench
Are you proposing that we quit criticizing bigots because it only gives them more attention?
I’m suggesting that a very different tone would reduce the “wingnut welfare” factor. Where or when did “engaging” mean there would be no criticism?
213 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:15:39pm |
re: #205 Political Atheist
You are aware that the term redneck is an insult, a pejorative term for rural/southern people right? That’s a word that gets thrown around a lot, and not just since this came up. keep in mind I refer to the media and the blogs out there in general, not a complaint about LGF.
Why should a southerner be any less offended at “redneck’ coming from an angry broad brushing critic than an African American at the “N” word?
Ah, I see the Magical Balance Fairy is getting her daily workout.
214 | dog philosopher Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:15:41pm |
re: #191 HappyWarrior
I don’t think anyone is reflexively hating on Southern conservatives
the idea is being propogated by wingnuts that ‘liberals’, yanno, city slickers and californians and suchlike, um, like me, are walking around dissing on southern conservatives and real american midwesterners, but my impression is more of very nice people who will serve you home-made pie and who aren’t at all concerned about who is having sex with whom
215 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:15:59pm |
re: #205 Political Atheist
You are aware that the term redneck is an insult, a pejorative term for rural/southern people right? That’s a word that gets thrown around a lot, and not just since this came up. keep in mind I refer to the media and the blogs out there in general, not a complaint about LGF.
Why should a southerner be any less offended at “redneck’ coming from an angry broad brushing critic than an African American at the “N” word?
Are you seriously going to tell me that redneck is close to the N-word? I know it’s an offensive term for Southerners and rural people. I am both of those things. I haven’t seen mass attacks on “rednecks.” I’ve mostly seen people attacking an individual, Phil Robertson.
216 | darthstar Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:16:19pm |
That's an elephant…. in a rain coat. pic.twitter.com/6pUG3ksiIP— Cute Emergency (@CuteEmergency) December 20, 2013
217 | gwangung Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:17:35pm |
re: #212 Political Atheist
I’m suggesting that a very different tone would reduce the “wingnut welfare” factor. Where or when did “engaging” mean there would be no criticism?
Your concern is noted.
But I also think a lot of times that a particular tone is warranted. This is not an intellectual exercise for some people—-it is literally existential for them.
218 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:17:49pm |
re: #213 Targetpractice
Ah, I see the Magical Balance Fairy is getting her daily workout.
WTF? Not in the least. MBF implies something is ok. I am saying the opposite. “Redneck” and the N word and certain phrases designed to hurt and insult should simply not be used. Not in anger anyway.
219 | Zamb Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:18:11pm |
220 | goddamnedfrank Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:18:33pm |
re: #205 Political Atheist
Why should a southerner be any less offended at “redneck’ coming from an angry broad brushing critic than an African American at the “N” word?
Just the entire history of slavery, post Reconstruction, Jim Crow and the resistance to the Civil Rights movement.
People being called redneck were never physically fucking hunted, lynched, denied the right to speak freely, assemble, vote, purchase certain homes, hold certain jobs, join most country clubs, eat at most resaurants, made to sit in the balcony or the back of the bus, on account of their skin color.
That was a seriously stupid fucking question.
221 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:18:36pm |
re: #212 Political Atheist
I’m suggesting that a very different tone would reduce the “wingnut welfare” factor. Where or when did “engaging” mean there would be no criticism?
You say that like this man lives in an actual vacuum, as if he’s never had the chance to talk with a gay person or see the rest of society.
That’s the engaging. He thinks that gays are creepy evil whatever, well, there are hundreds of thousands or millions of people around him acting very conspicuously non-evil twenty four hours a day, and a lot of them are putting up with a lot of shit, far more shit than Grumps McDuckNoise could ever imagine in his tiny little ratbrain, for doing it openly around him.
That’s far more engagement than this ass-backward turd has any right to expect. If that’s not enough for him, he can go piss upwind for all I care.
222 | Eclectic Cyborg Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:18:56pm |
Has there been much wingnut gloating about Obama’s current approval ratings?
223 | Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:18:57pm |
re: #207 HappyWarrior
I’ll ask you the same thing, I asked PA. How do you reasonably debate with a human being who thinks your gay friends and family are equivalent to people who screw animals? There’s disagreement like say on fiscal policy where two people can reasonably disagree and then there’s something like this where an individual is likening an entire community to people who screw animals. If you want reasonable debate, you don’t talk the way in the first place. Don’t blame people who take issue with their friends and family being insulted that way and act like the person who made the comments is just being bullied. Robertson knew exactly what he was doing here and he’s not going to be a poorer man for ti- Hell I wager to bet he’ll be wealthier.
You’ll probably never convince him that he’s wrong but he’s not a dumb man. He’s not a monster. You could easily sit down with him, have a few beers and talk shit but converting him isn’t a reasonable option. Sometimes you just have to acknowledge some people have different ideas. I disagree with him but I don’t think he’s dangerous. I don’t see any harm in allowing him to make tv shows or sell duck whistles or whatever else he does.
224 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:19:11pm |
re: #218 Political Atheist
WTF? Not in the least. MBF implies something is ok. I am saying the opposite. “Redneck” and the N word and certain phrases designed to hurt and insult should simply not be used. Not in anger anyway.
“Why any less”?
Implies equality.
Balance.
Exactly and explicitly MBF.
225 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:19:16pm |
re: #212 Political Atheist
I’m suggesting that a very different tone would reduce the “wingnut welfare” factor. Where or when did “engaging” mean there would be no criticism?
How would you engage with Mr. Bigot? Ask him how he feels about the word ‘redneck’?
226 | Zamb Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:19:37pm |
re: #219 Zamb
Seriously when’s the last time a Muslim openly insulted a section of the population and kept his sweet reality gig?
227 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:20:00pm |
re: #218 Political Atheist
WTF? Not in the least. MBF implies something is ok. I am saying the opposite. “Redneck” and the N word and certain phrases designed to hurt and insult should simply not be used. Not in anger anyway.
Sorry, but while I know there are those who consider “redneck” to be an insult, it does not in any way rise to the level of n——-r. Please don’t insult my intelligence with the suggestion that they are on the same level.
228 | Justanotherhuman Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:20:18pm |
re: #219 Zamb
Well apparently it’s only because we hate Christians.
[Embedded image]
Note the word, “crucifying”.
Does this idiot “writer” think people are all brain dead?
229 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:20:29pm |
re: #217 gwangung
Your concern is noted.
But I also think a lot of times that a particular tone is warranted. This is not an intellectual exercise for some people—-it is literally existential for them.
I think this is what PA has a hard time internalizing.
230 | goddamnedfrank Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:20:55pm |
re: #218 Political Atheist
WTF? Not in the least. MBF implies something is ok. I am saying the opposite. “Redneck” and the N word and certain phrases designed to hurt and insult should simply not be used. Not in anger anyway.
Fine, stop pretending that they are in any way equivalent. You know goddamned well that they aren’t.
231 | Lidane Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:21:01pm |
re: #220 goddamnedfrank
Just the entire history of slavery, post Reconstruction, Jim Crow and the resistance to the Civil Rights movement.
People being called redneck were never physically fucking hunted, lynched, denied the right to speak freely, assemble, vote, purchase certain homes, hold certain jobs, join most country clubs, eat at most resaurants, made to sit in the balcony or the back of the bus, on account of their skin color.
That was a seriously stupid fucking question.
THIS.
Comparing “redneck” to the N-word is absurd. Rednecks might be a stereotype, but they’ve never had a history of being physically and legally denied their lives and freedoms.
232 | darthstar Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:21:12pm |
Friend of mine works on the same campus as Lucas Arts…guess who she ran into at lunch?
233 | The War TARDIS Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:21:25pm |
re: #226 Zamb
Never, because most American Muslims are not this thick.
I somehow think that when Utahans woke up this morning, they didn’t expect Gay Marriage to be legal in the state come evening.
Poetic Justice for Proposition 8.
234 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:21:52pm |
re: #223 Killgore Trout
You’ll probably never convince him that he’s wrong but he’s not a dumb man. He’s not a monster. You could easily sit down with him, have a few beers and talk shit but converting him isn’t a reasonable option. Sometimes you just have to acknowledge some people have different ideas. I disagree with him but I don’t think he’s dangerous. I don’t see any harm in allowing him to make tv shows or sell duck whistles or whatever else he does.
Okay, I think you’re totally misreading me. I’ve never said he was “dangerous” or a “monster.” I think what he said was unbelievably bigoted. That doesn’t mean I want him ruined but I do think he should have to face the heat for what he says. If I am in the public spotlight like he’s been the past couple years and I say something stupid, I should expect to have a backlash against me. It would be the same principle if he had insulted anotehr group.
235 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:21:57pm |
re: #223 Killgore Trout
You’ll probably never convince him that he’s wrong but he’s not a dumb man. He’s not a monster. You could easily sit down with him, have a few beers and talk shit but converting him isn’t a reasonable option. Sometimes you just have to acknowledge some people have different ideas. I disagree with him but I don’t think he’s dangerous. I don’t see any harm in allowing him to make tv shows or sell duck whistles or whatever else he does.
Everyone acknowledges his different ideas. Nobody here is saying that whatshisname doesn’t actually hate gay people.
You’re asking us to acknowledge his active participation in polite society while promulgating these ideas. Nobody has a right to have their ideas taken seriously, and nobody has an absolute freedom from shunning or rejection. That’s incredibly different.
These things are earned, and this man has not earned them.
236 | dog philosopher Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:22:27pm |
237 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:22:50pm |
re: #220 goddamnedfrank
An insult is an insult.
What’s interesting is how unwelcome just the idea of engaging a man in the wrong to hope to change his mind is.
I give up. A less angry, less loud way is just not welcome.
Anger and the desire to punish wins the day. I Surrender to the heat of the moment. Shouted down.
238 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:22:56pm |
re: #220 goddamnedfrank
Just the entire history of slavery, post Reconstruction, Jim Crow and the resistance to the Civil Rights movement.
People being called redneck were never physically fucking hunted, lynched, denied the right to speak freely, assemble, vote, purchase certain homes, hold certain jobs, join most country clubs, eat at most resaurants, made to sit in the balcony or the back of the bus, on account of their skin color.
That was a seriously stupid fucking question.
Yes, this. I’m a rural Southerner. Both my parents grew up under segregation. I don’t like the term redneck but it’s not anything close to the n-word.
239 | goddamnedfrank Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:23:13pm |
re: #223 Killgore Trout
I don’t see any harm in allowing him to make tv shows or sell duck whistles or whatever else he does.
Then give him a show on your network. A&E sees harm to their brand. They’re the one’s who have to employ the creative talent that gets these shows made and they’ve decided that alienating the gay community isn’t worth it to their bottom line.
240 | darthstar Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:23:26pm |
Judge Completely Trolls Justice Scalia In Striking Down Utah's Gay Marriage Ban http://t.co/SnLjEfTrtw— BI: Politics (@bi_politics) December 20, 2013
241 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:24:18pm |
re: #237 Political Atheist
An insult is an insult.
What’s interesting is how unwelcome just the idea of engaging a man in the wrong to hope to change his mind is.
I give up. A less angry, less loud way is just not welcome.
Anger and the desire to punish wins the day. I Surrender to the heat of the moment.
Bullshit.
242 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:25:18pm |
re: #223 Killgore Trout
You’ll probably never convince him that he’s wrong but he’s not a dumb man. He’s not a monster. You could easily sit down with him, have a few beers and talk shit but converting him isn’t a reasonable option. Sometimes you just have to acknowledge some people have different ideas. I disagree with him but I don’t think he’s dangerous. I don’t see any harm in allowing him to make tv shows or sell duck whistles or whatever else he does.
Why am I not surprised, from the man who thought Rush Limbaugh calling a woman a “slut” on live radio was not only something that people shouldn’t be outraged over, but certainly not something that he should lost advertisers for saying.
I know, perhaps if Mr. Robertson and Mr. Limbaugh put on OWS shirts, you’d be okay with pepper-spraying them.
243 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:25:24pm |
This is the pro-family movement. An outpouring of love, commitment, and dignity in Salt Lake City today. pic.twitter.com/fgHpLCOqSN— Seth Anderson (@jsethanderson) December 20, 2013
244 | gwangung Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:25:29pm |
re: #219 Zamb
Well apparently it’s only because we hate Christians.
[Embedded image]
Stupid. The Taliban have gotten plenty of grief over their anti-woman, anti-gay views.
Jeezus. It’s not that hard. LOOK IT UP.
245 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:26:13pm |
re: #237 Political Atheist
An insult is an insult.
What’s interesting is how unwelcome just the idea of engaging a man in the wrong to hope to change his mind is.
I give up. A less angry, less loud way is just not welcome.
Anger and the desire to punish wins the day. I Surrender to the heat of the moment. Shouted down.
Oh can the drama queen bit.
246 | dog philosopher Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:26:45pm |
re: #239 goddamnedfrank
Then give him a show on your network. A&E sees harm to their brand. They’re the one’s who have to employ the creative talent that gets these shows made and they’ve decided that alienating the gay community isn’t worth it to their bottom line.
even more generally, entertainment networks are allergic to rude language of any type
it used to be so bad that in the old days jack paar lost his job as host of the tonite show because he use the work ‘toilet’ on the air
but he didn’t whine about how he was ‘crucified’
247 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:26:48pm |
The “N” word and redneck are both designed to insult, dismiss the other person as some lesser being. That is my context for the term. That’s my comparison. Just the slightest disagreement with the very angry response got quite the negative reaction.
248 | goddamnedfrank Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:26:52pm |
re: #237 Political Atheist
An insult is an insult.
What’s interesting is how unwelcome just the idea of engaging a man in the wrong to hope to change his mind is.
I give up. A less angry, less loud way is just not welcome.
Anger and the desire to punish wins the day. I Surrender to the heat of the moment.
Maybe instead of preaching you should take the initiative to fly out to Louisiana and talk to Robertson yourself. What’s unwelcome isn’t the idea itself, it’s trying to foist it off on everyone else who, after a lifetime of dealing with them are simply done with coddling bigots now that bigotry comes with a price tag.
249 | moderatelyradicalliberal Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:27:26pm |
250 | Justanotherhuman Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:27:45pm |
If anyone thinks the word “redneck” is insulting, they don’t live in the south.
The song, “Redneck Woman” was a monster hit on the country charts. People revel in their redneckness, like a big FU.
251 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:27:47pm |
“N*****” = “redneck”
I thought I left this bullshit behind in Yahoo! comments.
Jesus H. Christ.
252 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:28:00pm |
re: #247 Political Atheist
The “N” word and redneck are both designed to insult, dismiss the other person as some lesser being. That is my context for the term. That’s my comparison. Just the slightest disagreement with the very angry response got quite the negative reaction.
Perhaps you might consider engaging in a discussion.
253 | lawhawk Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:28:47pm |
.@chrisgeidner and yet there's nothing stopping a hetero couple from getting married in a traditional manner. Zero rights infringed w/ruling— lawhawk (@lawhawk) December 20, 2013
254 | GeneJockey Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:28:51pm |
re: #237 Political Atheist
An insult is an insult.
What’s interesting is how unwelcome just the idea of engaging a man in the wrong to hope to change his mind is.
I give up. A less angry, less loud way is just not welcome.
Anger and the desire to punish wins the day. I Surrender to the heat of the moment.
Sorry, but that comes across as a lot of self-serving tripe. The thing is, as I said - and you blew right by - there’s FAR less outrage on the Left for what he said than you’re making out. What he said was stupid and ignorant, and that’s pretty much what I hear people saying. MOST of what I hear people saying on the Left is responding to the hurricane of bullshit coming from the Right about his Freedom of Speech being trampled, and how persecuted Christians are.
255 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:29:23pm |
re: #248 goddamnedfrank
Maybe instead of preaching you should take the initiative to fly out to Louisiana and talk to Robertson yourself. What’s unwelcome isn’t the idea itself, it’s trying to foist it off on everyone else who, after a lifetime of dealing with them are simply done with coddling bigots now that bigotry comes with a price tag.
Look at the reaction above. It defies your contention. pointing out how this will put more money in the Robertsons pockets is hardly preaching. neither is just asking if a milder reaction might be reasonable. The idea is clearly unwelcome as hell.
256 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:29:28pm |
re: #237 Political Atheist
An insult is an insult.
re: #247 Political Atheist
The “N” word and redneck are both designed to insult, dismiss the other person as some lesser being. That is my context for the term. That’s my comparison. Just the slightest disagreement with the very angry response got quite the negative reaction.
You’re doubling down on the claim that ‘redneck’ is the same kind of offense as ‘n*****’? I have long thought you have a difficult time seeing things through the eyes of another, but you just convinced me it’s true.
Rethink this, please.
257 | Killgore Trout Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:30:02pm |
re: #242 Targetpractice
I just can’t get worked up over a TV show I’ve never seen or a radio show I never listen to. I’m secure enough in my own ideas and I have no desire to punish people who express theirs. My local halal market has great deals on spices. The owners probably don’t like gays much either, I shop there anyways.
258 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:30:05pm |
re: #252 Targetpractice
Perhaps you might consider engaging in a discussion.
That’s what this is. Or was.
259 | goddamnedfrank Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:30:06pm |
re: #247 Political Atheist
The “N” word and redneck are both designed to insult, dismiss the other person as some lesser being. That is my context for the term. That’s my comparison. Just the slightest disagreement with the very angry response got quite the negative reaction.
Try them out separately. Go find a random black person and call him the n-word. Then do the same thing with the first rural southern white person you can find, call them a redneck. Take notes then come back and tell us how the two words are equivalent.
260 | BeenHereAwhile Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:30:58pm |
re: #172 Lidane
Sure. The whole thing is an overblown, entirely manufactured outrage.
He wanted off the show. He handed A&E a way for him to leave the show just in time for the holiday shopping season and for them to look good to the majority of their viewers and advertisers. Now everyone involved stands to make more money in the long run. It’s all win-win.
Maybe Phil just wanted to lose the beard.
261 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:31:12pm |
re: #255 Political Atheist
Look at the reaction above. It defies your contention. pointing out how this will put more money in the Robertsons pockets is hardly preaching. neither is just asking if a milder reaction might be reasonable. The idea is clearly unwelcome as hell.
What would have been a “milder reaction,” in your opinion? The “engaging in a discussion” bit is mealy-mouthed nonsense, the stuff of concern trolls. What do you think should have been done instead to make clear to Robertson that his opinion was not universal and others took offense to his views?
262 | Lidane Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:32:00pm |
re: #260 BeenHereAwhile
Maybe Phil just wanted to lose the beard.
Jesus said help the poor, not pretend to be them! #DuckDynasty #FAKE #PreppiesMasqueradingAsRednecks4Cash pic.twitter.com/nJTqpw57YI— Mrs. Betty Bowers (@BettyBowers) December 20, 2013
263 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:33:02pm |
re: #257 Killgore Trout
I just can’t get worked up over a TV show I’ve never seen or a radio show I never listen to. I’m secure enough in my own ideas and I have no desire to punish people who express theirs. My local halal market has great deals on spices. The owners probably don’t like gays much either, I shop there anyways.
As Gene noted, the folks who are getting the most worked up over this incident are Phil’s supporters, not his critics. I can’t say as I’ve seen a “Fire Phil” petition being passed around or threats to boycott A&E if he’s allowed back on the air. In fact, I’ve not seen any response by his detractors that hasn’t been aimed at those who’ve gone bugfuck insane over A&E’s decision.
264 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:33:18pm |
re: #211 ObserverArt
Are you just seeing it one way though? How about letting it play out and see if it is another building block in things changing. Stuff takes time. You’d have to admit with what happened in a state like Utah today when viewed against Phil DuckHead it is going to make people really have to think and when viewed historically is another block in the building of gay rights.
Maybe they are a dynamic reflective of the times and the reactions on both sides are of that reflection. Ducks one day, two days later Utah. Rather dramatic.
If someone could plot out the line from say something like the Stonewall Riots in 1969 to where gay rights are this very day, I’d think you’d be impressed with that plot line and a rather rapid increase in the last say, five years. Is the reaction on that same kind of a line?
Just one way? Not at all. I just found the idea that engaging Phil Robertson as suggested might be better all the way around. This has proven rather… unpopular. There are reformed bigots, people who changed. What’s the best way to make that happen? maybe engagement ain’t such a bad idea. I’m having a hard time coming to the conclusion it’s a bad idea.
265 | Charles Johnson Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:33:58pm |
re: #254 GeneJockey
Sorry, but that comes across as a lot of self-serving tripe. The thing is, as I said - and you blew right by - there’s FAR less outrage on the Left for what he said than you’re making out. What he said was stupid and ignorant, and that’s pretty much what I hear people saying. MOST of what I hear people saying on the Left is responding to the hurricane of bullshit coming from the Right about his Freedom of Speech being trampled, and how persecuted Christians are.
Honestly, I only got interested in the story when I saw the right wing noise machine spring into high gear to defend this idiot. I find it fascinating to see this bizarre herding/flocking behavior that they have when their core issues are exposed. It’s like a human botnet. They get the signal from the central committee and immediately all of them, from the media to blogs to commenters, all start aggressively parroting the same talking points, effectively acting like a human wave DOS attack on sanity.
I’m making a scientific study of the phenomenon.
266 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:34:27pm |
I admit my “N” word comparison was an error, one I retract.
I do still think that redneck is an insult, and one that is used way too easily in general.
267 | BongCrodny Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:35:42pm |
re: #139 wrenchwench
[Embedded content]
When I think of “government waste,” Joe Arpaio comes to mind.
268 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:36:01pm |
re: #266 Political Atheist
I admit my “N” word comparison was an error, one I retract.
I do still think that redneck is an insult, and one that is used way too easily in general.
Then we’ll have to agree to disagree, as I don’t consider it much of an insult. Fact of the matter is, I know many rednecks, most of them in my family, who proudly revel in the word. Call it what you will, a frame of mind, a state of being, a way of life, it’s just something they don’t get worked up over.
Most of those who do seem to be the ones who get angry over pretty much anything.
269 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:36:38pm |
re: #265 Charles Johnson
Honestly, I only got interested in the story when I saw the right wing noise machine spring into high gear to defend this idiot. I find it fascinating to see this bizarre herding/flocking behavior that they have when their core issues are exposed. It’s like a human botnet. They get the signal from the central committee and immediately all of them, from the media to blogs to commenters, all start aggressively parroting the same talking points, effectively acting like a human wave DOS attack on sanity.
I’m making a scientific study of the phenomenon.
Yeah me too. I am just amazed that people like the idiot running for Congress see a man who’s called out for saying something stupid like this as being akin to Rosa Parks. I don’t get where the idea that we want him “punished” or think he’s “evil” comes from. I just have an issue with my gay friends and family being likened to people who screw animals especially if it’s a cheap publicity stunt like this appears more and more to be.
270 | AlexRogan Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:38:08pm |
re: #205 Political Atheist
You are aware that the term redneck is an insult, a pejorative term for rural/southern people right? That’s a word that gets thrown around a lot, and not just since this came up. keep in mind I refer to the media and the blogs out there in general, not a complaint about LGF.
Why should a southerner be any less offended at “redneck’ coming from an angry broad brushing critic than an African American at the “N” word?
You live in Cali, right? Well, I live in the buckle of the Bible Belt and, nowadays, “redneck” is a mild insult, at worst, but is more often worn as a badge of pride. Even at its insult zenith, “redneck” has NEVER, EVER been on the same plane as “n**ger”.
Your argument is invalid.
271 | Charles Johnson Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:38:14pm |
I wish I could go back to that idyllic golden age two days ago when I had never heard of Duck Dynasty. Good times.— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) December 20, 2013
272 | goddamnedfrank Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:38:24pm |
re: #264 Political Atheist
Just one way? Not at all. I just found the idea that engaging Phil Robertson as suggested might be better all the way around. This has proven rather… unpopular. There are reformed bigots, people who changed. What’s the best way to make that happen? maybe engagement ain’t such a bad idea. I’m having a hard time coming to the conclusion it’s a bad idea.
You’re kind of presenting an either/or situation that doesn’t exist. I’m sure plenty of people would be happy to engage with Robertson, but it’s not incumbent on A&E to be those people. They have a brand to protect and shows in the future to produce that will be marketed to a wider audience than reactionary conservatives.
There haven’t been any liberal petitions or calls to fire the man, A&E jumped on the situation immediately and suspended him on their own, as a result of their own mental calculous. The only people freaking out are the typical Republican racists, like Sarah “Don’t retreat … reload!” Palin.
273 | aagcobb Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:38:25pm |
re: #73 wrenchwench
Not enough updings for this; I’m so happy for them!
274 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:40:21pm |
re: #271 Charles Johnson
[Embedded content]
I wish we could get rid of reality TV all together. I miss the days where people got famous because of actual talent not being the celeb de jour that some TV execs wanted to make a lame show out of. I mean give me the day wheer someone becomes famous for a great acting job, a great LP, etc. Still happens but we live in the age of the invented celebrity.
275 | goddamnedfrank Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:40:42pm |
re: #266 Political Atheist
I admit my “N” word comparison was an error, one I retract.
I do still think that redneck is an insult, and one that is used way too easily in general.
White trash would have been a better example. Still not equivalent, but better inasmuch as it’s literally calling the target worthless refuse.
276 | GeneJockey Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:42:58pm |
re: #265 Charles Johnson
Honestly, I only got interested in the story when I saw the right wing noise machine spring into high gear to defend this idiot. I find it fascinating to see this bizarre herding/flocking behavior that they have when their core issues are exposed. It’s like a human botnet. They get the signal from the central committee and immediately all of them, from the media to blogs to commenters, all start aggressively parroting the same talking points, effectively acting like a human wave DOS attack on sanity.
I’m making a scientific study of the phenomenon.
It’s true. I observed this in action while posting both here and at a conservative forum last fall and winter. VB would post a tweet from Bryan Fischer here, and within a few hours that same idea was being posted over there, and often as not my wingnut 2nd cousin in West Virginia was liking the same thing from a different source on Facebook. It never took more than a day to traverse the Wingnutosphere.
Sometimes it seems like there must be somebody whose job it is to think up all this shit and/or respond to the news, who then sends out the Outrages like the Wicked Witch sending off the flying monkeys - “Fly my pretties, FLY!!!!”
277 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:43:30pm |
re: #254 GeneJockey
How is this self serving? I got no skin in this game. I just found a less angry response to be interesting. I still don’t see a damn thing wrong with that.
Obviously both sides are screaming this out. What a rolling snowball, A&E suspends a suddenly truly problematic cast member, the right freaks, the left freaks out over the RW reaction, and the Robertsons take it to the bank.
Clickbait, ratings, merchandise sales, money money money. Maybe growing up in a media city has made it easier to see how outrage =cash.
278 | RadicalModerate Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:43:31pm |
re: #205 Political Atheist
You are aware that the term redneck is an insult, a pejorative term for rural/southern people right? That’s a word that gets thrown around a lot, and not just since this came up. keep in mind I refer to the media and the blogs out there in general, not a complaint about LGF.
Why should a southerner be any less offended at “redneck’ coming from an angry broad brushing critic than an African American at the “N” word?
Please tell me you aren’t being serious here.
The term ‘redneck’ was coined BY those rural white southerners and has been used proudly by them for generations. Not coincidentally, many of these same people wrap themselves in the Confederate battle flag as a symbol of “southern pride” also.
The same cannot be said about the genesis and usage of the “n-word” to describe African-Americans. It has ALWAYS been used in a pejorative context, in an attempt to dehumanize those individuals.
279 | GeneJockey Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:44:01pm |
re: #272 goddamnedfrank
You’re kind of presenting an either/or situation that doesn’t exist. I’m sure plenty of people would be happy to engage with Robertson, but it’s not incumbent on A&E to be those people. They have a brand to protect and shows in the future to produce that will be marketed to a wider audience than reactionary conservatives.
There haven’t been any liberal petitions or calls to fire the man, A&E jumped on the situation immediately and suspended him on their own, as a result of their own mental calculous. The only people freaking out are the typical Republican racists, like Sarah “Don’t retreat … reload!” Palin.
This.
280 | erik_t Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:45:20pm |
281 | GeneJockey Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:46:44pm |
re: #277 Political Atheist
How is this self serving? I got no skin in this game. I just found a less angry response to be interesting. I still don’t see a damn thing wrong with that.
I was referring to the way you wrote that particular post, which came across as if from the fainting couch.
Obviously both sides are screaming this out. What a rolling snowball, A&E suspends a suddenly truly problematic cast member, the right freaks, the left freaks out over the RW reaction, and the Robertsons take it to the bank.
Clickbait, ratings, merchandise sales, money money money. Maybe growing up in a media city has made it easier to see how outrage =cash.
Like I and other have been trying to tell you, there’s only one side screaming, and it ain’t us. This is why people are talking about the Magical Balance Fairy.
282 | RealityBasedSteve Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:47:58pm |
Well, I’ve got a new season of the BBC Top Gear to watch. I’ll be paying about half attention to the board tonight.
RBS
Little Green Footballs is the Best… Site… Ever. /jeremy_clarkson
283 | BongCrodny Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:51:09pm |
Up here in Maine, a guy created the “Redneck Olympics” a couple years ago, a three day yee-haw festival with such events such as a demolition derby, lawn mower races, pig roast and a “Very Wet T-Shirt Contest.”
About 2,600 people attended the first one; successful enough so that they’re planning the third one this year.
If “Redneck” is an insult, it’s a very mild one at best.
284 | ObserverArt Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:51:20pm |
re: #231 Lidane
THIS.
Comparing “redneck” to the N-word is absurd. Rednecks might be a stereotype, but they’ve never had a history of being physically and legally denied their lives and freedoms.
This will be a touchy comment, so excuse me, please.
Part of the the reason people refer to some as rednecks, bubbas and the like is based on their very own views on things like African Americans, Gays, non-believers, Yankees, northerners, city-dwellers and any other “others” outside their own group and thinking. It doesn’t always describe an area of the country as much as a line of thinking.
As a matter of fact, doesn’t red neck as a term come form outdoor workers/laborers like construction workers, brick layers, etc.?
(The above is open for discussion, or to be totally ignored. I am searching out the root of the term and how it came about. Call it a social study…)
285 | Feline Fearless Leader Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:52:21pm |
re: #120 Aunty Entity Dragon
You may have missed out on all those church bombings, burnings and lynchings that were still happening around that time in the South.
I expect it will take the lines of county clerks martyring themselves by refusing to process the requests and thus wasting local and state taxpayer money in repeating court cases prosecuting them and/or fining the locality for not doing their duty.
286 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:54:23pm |
re: #268 Targetpractice
Then we’ll have to agree to disagree, as I don’t consider it much of an insult. Fact of the matter is, I know many rednecks, most of them in my family, who proudly revel in the word. Call it what you will, a frame of mind, a state of being, a way of life, it’s just something they don’t get worked up over.
Most of those who do seem to be the ones who get angry over pretty much anything.
I refer to when the term is used in anger. As a deliberate insult. All these terms can be used among friends. Bill Cosby objected to the N word as a black man speaking to black men, as does a music industry pal (Trendz of Culture) fame) of mine. But friends joke with it anyway. Do we disagree there?
287 | aagcobb Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:55:20pm |
re: #183 Lidane
“Because I’m a fucking moron” was apparently not nuanced enough for this guy:
[Embedded content]
He so missed it. Phil Robertson is Anne Frank, and A & E are the Gestapo.///
288 | HappyWarrior Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:55:49pm |
re: #287 aagcobb
He so missed it. Phil Robertson is Anne Frank, and A & E are the Gestapo.///
I am sure Glenn Beck has that already written.
289 | ObserverArt Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:55:55pm |
re: #237 Political Atheist
An insult is an insult.
What’s interesting is how unwelcome just the idea of engaging a man in the wrong to hope to change his mind is.
I give up. A less angry, less loud way is just not welcome.
Anger and the desire to punish wins the day. I Surrender to the heat of the moment. Shouted down.
In other words you don’t want to really discuss it. Calling everyone angry is a low way out. And you are talking about insults.
People around here are pretty damn sharp. I would think you’d relish that rather than bow out. I’ll just say, I was enjoying the discussion.
291 | Flounder Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:57:24pm |
292 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:57:56pm |
re: #286 Political Atheist
I refer to when the term is used in anger. As a deliberate insult. All these terms can be used among friends. Bill Cosby objected to the N word as a black man speaking to black men, as does a music industry pal (Trendz of Culture) fame) of mine. But friends joke with it anyway. Do we disagree there?
Can it be used as an insult? Yes, I’d agree it can.
293 | Lidane Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:58:30pm |
The ONLY evidence we have that black people weren't happy during segregation is the civil rights movement.— LOLGOP (@LOLGOP) December 20, 2013
294 | ObserverArt Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:00:46pm |
re: #255 Political Atheist
Look at the reaction above. It defies your contention. pointing out how this will put more money in the Robertsons pockets is hardly preaching. neither is just asking if a milder reaction might be reasonable. The idea is clearly unwelcome as hell.
Can you show me where anyone said that and not what you assume?
(And I know you bowed out…)
295 | dog philosopher Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:00:50pm |
The overnight ratings are in for Duck Dynasty. One week ago, DD topped all of cable’s ratings with 8.885 million viewers. Last night, they free fell down the list to 2.521 million viewers. That is a drop of 6.364 million viewers, or 71.6%
leading the freepers to twist themselves into knots trying to figure out if this is very good or very bad for them
296 | RealityBasedSteve Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:04:32pm |
re: #295 dog philosopher
The overnight ratings are in for Duck Dynasty. One week ago, DD topped all of cable’s ratings with 8.885 million viewers. Last night, they free fell down the list to 2.521 million viewers. That is a drop of 6.364 million viewers, or 71.6%
leading the freepers to twist themselves into knots trying to figure out if this is very good or very bad for them
I’m sure that once they get the ‘un-skewed honest ratings’ they are actually up 129%, but the lamestream media can’t report that since it’s not in their marching orders. ///
RBS
297 | Varek Raith Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:04:54pm |
re: #295 dog philosopher
The overnight ratings are in for Duck Dynasty. One week ago, DD topped all of cable’s ratings with 8.885 million viewers. Last night, they free fell down the list to 2.521 million viewers. That is a drop of 6.364 million viewers, or 71.6%
leading the freepers to twist themselves into knots trying to figure out if this is very good or very bad for them
Ouch for the network.
298 | GeneJockey Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:05:58pm |
re: #297 Varek Raith
Ouch for the network.
You don’t suppose that the payday for the Robertsons might also be tied to the ratings, do you?
299 | Varek Raith Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:06:23pm |
re: #298 GeneJockey
You don’t suppose that the payday for the Robertsons might also be tied to the ratings, do you?
Double ouch.
300 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:06:37pm |
re: #295 dog philosopher
The overnight ratings are in for Duck Dynasty. One week ago, DD topped all of cable’s ratings with 8.885 million viewers. Last night, they free fell down the list to 2.521 million viewers. That is a drop of 6.364 million viewers, or 71.6%
leading the freepers to twist themselves into knots trying to figure out if this is very good or very bad for them
If you want to make the argument that the show is a cash cow to A&E, strangling the cow to death is not a good way to do it.
301 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:07:39pm |
re: #198 gwangung
Over thinking that he’s an idiot and a bigot? Hell, no. Why are you complaining? Trying to muzzle our First Amendment rights?
Long as I can take potshots at a public figure and call it like I see ‘em…
Can you explain how just suggesting a less angry reaction as an alternative is trying to “muzzle” anyone? Or how the really angry reaction played into the Robinsons hands? I just don’t see it.
302 | BeenHereAwhile Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:07:53pm |
re: #220 goddamnedfrank
Just the entire history of slavery, post Reconstruction, Jim Crow and the resistance to the Civil Rights movement.
People being called redneck were never physically fucking hunted, lynched, denied the right to speak freely, assemble, vote, purchase certain homes, hold certain jobs, join most country clubs, eat at most resaurants, made to sit in the balcony or the back of the bus, on account of their skin color.
That was a seriously stupid fucking question.
In the early days of unionizing, strikers wearing red bandannas to ID themselves, were beaten, shot and killed.
In addition to the armed uprisings previously mentioned, there was also the Ludlow Massacre.
“Our women from Trinidad they hauled some potatoes
Up to Walsenburg in a little cart
They sold their potatoes and brought some guns back
And put a gun in every hand
The state soldiers jumped us in a wire fence corner
They did not know that we had these guns
And the red neck miners mowed down them troopers
You should have seen those poor boys run”
Woody Guthrie
303 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:08:53pm |
re: #298 GeneJockey
You don’t suppose that the payday for the Robertsons might also be tied to the ratings, do you?
Not from show to show. Season to season sure. Ordinarily these contracts are a season at a time with a framework for continuing or ending as per the studios decisions.
304 | RealityBasedSteve Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:09:16pm |
re: #300 Targetpractice
If you want to make the argument that the show is a cash cow to A&E, strangling the cow to death is not a good way to do it.
The main thing to look at, and I’m too lazy to research it quite frankly, is how did OTHER A&E shows do compared to last week. Should determine if it’s because the RWNJs are boycotting A&E, or is it pushback on DD?
RBS
305 | Targetpractice Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:10:42pm |
re: #301 Political Atheist
Can you explain how just suggesting a less angry reaction as an alternative is trying to “muzzle” anyone? Or how the really angry reaction played into the Robinsons hands? I just don’t see it.
What “really angry reaction” are you talking about? Again, there was no organized call, or even a disorganized one, to have Phil punished for his comments to GQ. A&E made a business decision after getting a call from GLAAD. Everything else has subsequently followed from that decision.
306 | RadicalModerate Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:22:24pm |
re: #295 dog philosopher
The overnight ratings are in for Duck Dynasty. One week ago, DD topped all of cable’s ratings with 8.885 million viewers. Last night, they free fell down the list to 2.521 million viewers. That is a drop of 6.364 million viewers, or 71.6%
leading the freepers to twist themselves into knots trying to figure out if this is very good or very bad for them
Were both last week’s and this weeks shows first-time broadcasts or was last night’s show a repeat?
I think it would be helpful if the ratings citation has a contextual basis to it - I say this because I don’t know the answer myself.
307 | Feline Fearless Leader Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:23:02pm |
re: #268 Targetpractice
Then we’ll have to agree to disagree, as I don’t consider it much of an insult. Fact of the matter is, I know many rednecks, most of them in my family, who proudly revel in the word. Call it what you will, a frame of mind, a state of being, a way of life, it’s just something they don’t get worked up over.
Most of those who do seem to be the ones who get angry over pretty much anything.
That might also fall into that sort of weird frame where groups can use certain terms self-referentially without major umbrage, but outsiders cannot use the same term without giving rise to a much more violent response.
308 | abolitionist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:34:38pm |
re: #246 dog philosopher
even more generally, entertainment networks are allergic to rude language of any type
it used to be so bad that in the old days jack paar lost his job as host of the tonite show because he use the work ‘toilet’ on the air
but he didn’t whine about how he was ‘crucified’
Jack Paar was fired over having uttered water closet —not toilet. But your point was quite right.
309 | wrenchwench Fri, Dec 20, 2013 5:11:34pm |
With Troy and Senator Jim Dubakis who also got married today. :) and my husband. I like how that sounds. pic.twitter.com/jFN3493H5i— Seth Anderson (@jsethanderson) December 21, 2013
310 | Political Atheist Fri, Dec 20, 2013 6:02:46pm |
re: #220 goddamnedfrank
Just the entire history of slavery, post Reconstruction, Jim Crow and the resistance to the Civil Rights movement.
People being called redneck were never physically fucking hunted, lynched, denied the right to speak freely, assemble, vote, purchase certain homes, hold certain jobs, join most country clubs, eat at most resaurants, made to sit in the balcony or the back of the bus, on account of their skin color.
That was a seriously stupid fucking question.
So if a man gets all up in your southern face yells you lousy worthless effing redneck, that man should be far less insulted than if it’s a black man and someone hurls the N word at him?
History aside, face to face it’s damn angry words. The intent is the exact same-To anger, insult, and do harm.
311 | Uncle Obdicut Sat, Dec 21, 2013 6:23:26am |
re: #205 Political Atheist
Why should a southerner be any less offended at “redneck’ coming from an angry broad brushing critic than an African American at the “N” word?
Because black men and women used to be called ‘n*****’ while they were killed by mobs, killed by the state, while they were beaten and whipped in the fields, while they had their children stolen from them and sold, while they were raped over and over again.
312 | Uncle Obdicut Sat, Dec 21, 2013 8:27:37am |
re: #311 Uncle Obdicut
Also black people were called n***** while they had firehoses turned on them for wanting to be treated like equals and called n***** while the police beat them down as they marched for voting rights, and black children had n***** shouted at them for going to school with white children.
313 | Ryan King Sat, Dec 21, 2013 8:33:37am |
Southern stereotypes are the real problem today, now that racism is gone.
314 | wrenchwench Sat, Dec 21, 2013 8:51:45am |
re: #310 Political Atheist
So if a man gets all up in your southern face yells you lousy worthless effing redneck, that man should be far less insulted than if it’s a black man and someone hurls the N word at him?
History aside, face to face it’s damn angry words. The intent is the exact same-To anger, insult, and do harm.
Are you retracting your retraction?