Outrageous Outrage of the Day, Starring Danny Glover

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In today’s outrageous outrage, tu quoque specialists everywhere are faking outrageous outrage over remarks made by leftist actor Danny Glover in a phone interview. The screaming was so high-pitched I was motivated to check out the video recording:

Youtube Video

This is the section being pulled out of context:

The threat of what happened to Haiti is the threat that could happen anywhere in the Caribbean, to these island nations. You know, they’re all in peril because of global warming, they’re all in peril because of climate change and all this. And we need to find … when we did what we did at the climate summit, in Copenhagen, this is the response, this is what happens, you know what I’m sayin’? That we have to act now.

Danny Glover’s a pretty hardcore Hollywood leftist; hangs out with Hugo Chavez, visits Cuba, talks a lot about American misdeeds in Central America. (And there have been a few.) He’s trying to politicize the Haitian disaster, clumsily, by saying that all the Caribbean island nations are in danger from global warming (in addition to earthquakes), and that “a new kind of internationalism” is needed to address it. He rambles for a while about this, then finishes by saying that the international meeting in Copenhagen led to the “response” — the international relief effort.

This is all very muddled and stream of consciousness, but you’d have to really stretch to say he meant the earthquake was the response to Copenhagen. He never says anything remotely resembling what’s already going around numerous right wing blogs — that global warming caused the Haitian earthquake.

Tim Blair is one who comes right out and makes this claim:

Actor Danny Glover believes that the Haitian earthquake was caused by climate change and global warming…

Blair proceeds to the inevitable comparison with Pat Robertson’s remarks, which isn’t totally off base — Glover and Robertson are both trying to politicize the disaster — but the comparison breaks down because Glover is at least making a point (murky though it is) based on facts: it’s true that island nations will the first to feel the effects of rising sea levels.

But Glover never says the earthquake was caused by global warming. Tim Blair is twisting Glover’s words to make him seem as much of a crazy “zealot” as someone like, say, Pat Robertson. It’s all about the tu quoque!

Robertson, on the other hand, said the Haitian earthquake was divine retribution incurred by Haitians who signed a pact with Satan. You know, Beelzebub? That’s another level of crazy entirely.

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542 comments
1 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:07:52pm
Robertson, on the other hand, said the Haitian earthquake was divine retribution incurred by Haitians who signed a pact with Satan. You know, Beelzebub? That’s another level of crazy entirely.

The leaders of the Haitian uprising worshipped their ancestral African deities. This is pantheism, or "idolatry" to a Christian, but obviously not a "pact with Satan" since the voodoo spirits do not include Old Scratch.

2 lgffan  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:08:22pm

I know that I am dense - but I just do not get it. Glover or the RW response or any of it.

3 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:09:46pm

re: #2 lgffan

I know that I am dense - but I just do not get it. Glover or the RW response or any of it.

I can't see how a professional actor a mess up his lines so bad...

4 Kragar  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:11:15pm

re: #3 brookly red

I can't see how a professional actor a mess up his lines so bad...

Live performances are like that.

5 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:11:56pm

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Live performances are like that.

maybe he gets another take?

6 Soap_Man  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:12:14pm

I don't see why anyone cares what he thinks anyway. He's not an expert in anything. (Well, maybe acting, but that still doesn't make me care about his beliefs on AGW, pro or con.)

7 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:12:53pm

I'm getting too old for Glover's sh*t! /shamelessly reposted

8 Buck  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:13:06pm

I heard someone else on the radio today explain that the world ganged up on Haiti because they defied Napoleon. And that Haiti was blackballed in the world because they were the first Black country to declare themselves an independent nation. The USA waited 50 years to recognize Haiti as a country...

Sure imperialism stinks in some ways, but it is harder to be independent.

9 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:13:25pm
And we need to find … when we did what we did at the climate summit, in Copenhagen, this is the response, this is what happens, you know what I’m sayin’?

Er...no. No, I don't know what you're sayin'.

I don't think Tim Blair does, either. But Danny, your ability to spit out a clear, coherent sentence needs some real attention. Or, just stick to what you actually know how to do - read other people's words off a script.

10 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:14:04pm

Do these people know that they are full of shit and manipulating the the truth or do they suffer from some kind of mental defect that twists reality such that they really perceive it that way?

I just don't understand how these people can act in bad faith with such regularity and still have any kind of credibility with anyone.

11 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:14:22pm

re: #6 Soap_Man

I don't see why anyone cares what he thinks anyway. He's not an expert in anything. (Well, maybe acting, but that still doesn't make me care about his beliefs on AGW, pro or con.)

/ be he's an activist...

12 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:16:06pm

re: #1 Alouette

The leaders of the Haitian uprising worshipped their ancestral African deities. This is pantheism, or "idolatry" to a Christian, but obviously not a "pact with Satan" since the voodoo spirits do not include Old Scratch.

Erzuli Dantor, the spirit invoked in the ritual that launched the revolution, is associated by Vodun practitioners with the Black Virgin of Czeschtowowoicantspellit. Not Satan.

13 Soap_Man  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:16:13pm

re: #11 brookly red

/ be he's an activist...

/ Oh, okay. That explains it.

14 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:16:41pm

Stupid celebrity (well, semi-celebrity) news of the day:

Tila Tequila Planning To Seek Custody Of Casey Johnson's Daughter

15 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:17:49pm

re: #8 Buck

I think Jim Norton said it best, "You don't need a pact with Satan to beat the French!"

16 Girth  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:18:12pm

Today's Headlines:

Wingnuts Claim Someone Said Something He Didn't Say

in related news:

Actor Danny Glover Still an Asshole

17 American-African  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:18:59pm

As I read the text, I had to force myself not to understand what Glover meant to say. And had the French not fleeced Haiti with the help of so many other nations, including ours, there may have been structures sound enough to avoid the massive calamity the international community must now help to repair.

Imagine if the United States were forced to pay England reparations for the lost colonies. I had to scour the internet before I found details about that part of Haitian history.

I just hope the Haitian people are not forced into the same kind of central, fractional reserve banking system. There has to be another way.

18 Silvergirl  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:19:03pm

re: #7 lawhawk

I'm getting too old for Glover's sh*t! /shamelessly reposted

You are shameless. Bringing Glover's sh*t over here. Here's a doo-doo bag. I'm really holding back on the downding here.

:-)

19 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:19:25pm

re: #14 Mad Al-Jaffee

Stupid celebrity (well, semi-celebrity) news of the day:

Tila Tequila Planning To Seek Custody Of Casey Johnson's Daughter

Why does the word "leech" always come to mind when this twit is mentioned?

20 Kragar  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:20:11pm

re: #14 Mad Al-Jaffee

Stupid celebrity (well, semi-celebrity) news of the day:

Tila Tequila Planning To Seek Custody Of Casey Johnson's Daughter

Tila Nguyen is a cheap attention starved whore who needs to shut the fuck up and get her ass into rehab

21 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:21:37pm

Leave it to assholes on the Right and Left to politicize this tragedy!

22 recusancy  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:22:21pm

re: #21 MandyManners

Leave it to assholes on the Right and Left to politicize this tragedy!

Tu quoque

23 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:22:57pm

re: #17 American-African

I just hope the Haitian people are not forced into the same kind of central, fractional reserve banking system. There has to be another way.

Are you in favor of the "audit the Fed"/"end the Fed" proposals from Ron Paul and others?

24 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:23:30pm

re: #20 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Tila Nguyen is a cheap attention starved whore who needs to shut the fuck up and get her ass into rehab

/but doncha wanna hear her opinion on wold issues?

25 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:24:27pm

re: #24 brookly red

/but doncha wanna hear her opinion on wold issues?

world issues... I am 3 for 3 on typos today.

26 Bob Dillon  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:24:39pm

re: #21 MandyManners

Leave it to assholes on the Right and Left to politicize this tragedy!

They are all nucking futs.

27 TampaKnight  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:25:13pm

re: #23 wrenchwench

Are you in favor of the "audit the Fed"/"end the Fed" proposals from Ron Paul and others?

I am.

28 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:25:55pm

re: #17 American-African

As I read the text, I had to force myself not to understand what Glover meant to say. And had the French not fleeced Haiti with the help of so many other nations, including ours, there may have been structures sound enough to avoid the massive calamity the international community must now help to repair.

Structures in Haiti are bad because quakes there are infrequent. The most powerful earthquake to have hit North America is estimated to have been the New Madrid earthquake of 1812, centered in Missouri and felt as far away as New York. Death and destruction was light, because of low population in the most affected regions at the time, but the course of the Mississippi River was permanently changed. A quake of similar magnitude taking place in the same region today would be a catastrophe of unprecedented proportion. Yet there are no building codes requiring earthquake resistance in the area. Most structures would, as in Haiti, simply collapse because they aren't sound enough to avoid such a massive calamity. This, despite the inevitability of such an event at some point in the future.

29 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:26:13pm

re: #27 TampaKnight

I am.

KT in 3...2...1...

30 TampaKnight  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:27:09pm

re: #29 brookly red

KT in 3...2...1...

Wha?

31 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:27:47pm

re: #28 SixDegrees

Structures in Haiti are bad because quakes there are infrequent. The most powerful earthquake to have hit North America is estimated to have been the New Madrid earthquake of 1812, centered in Missouri and felt as far away as New York. Death and destruction was light, because of low population in the most affected regions at the time, but the course of the Mississippi River was permanently changed. A quake of similar magnitude taking place in the same region today would be a catastrophe of unprecedented proportion. Yet there are no building codes requiring earthquake resistance in the area. Most structures would, as in Haiti, simply collapse because they aren't sound enough to avoid such a massive calamity. This, despite the inevitability of such an event at some point in the future.

It rang the church bells in Boston.

32 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:28:11pm

re: #30 TampaKnight

Wha?

KT is a poster with strong views on Ron Paul... you'll see.

33 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:28:30pm

Weird obnoxious anti-Israel spin of the day: Gaza's high motorbike injury rates result from Israel's blockade.

Yet, the article deemphasizes the fact that most Gazans don't know how to ride them, don't have helmets, and don't actually pay attention to the law when driving them. Also ignored is that Egypt isn't letting stuff across its border with Gaza either.

34 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:28:32pm

re: #31 MandyManners

It rang the church bells in Boston.

Why does that sound dirty to me? ;)

35 American-African  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:30:45pm

re: #23 wrenchwench

Are you in favor of the "audit the Fed"/"end the Fed" proposals from Ron Paul and others?

Let's audit and see that's there. We are too big to not have a central bank, so let's require a larger reserve be held than the current 10% If the banks are sitting on 50% or 60% reserves, they would be dying to lend, not pay huge bonuses.

36 Jack Burton  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:31:21pm

re: #27 TampaKnight

I am.

You're in favor of a "fishing expedition" by uberlibertarian Paulistinan kooks and gold standard fetishists to try to find a nonexistent conspiracy to screw everyone by (insert euphemism for Jewish Bankers here) so that we can further destroy the economy by going to an outdated unworkable monetary system...

Ok.

37 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:32:20pm

re: #34 Mad Al-Jaffee

Why does that sound dirty to me? ;)

'Cause your mind's in the gutter?

38 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:32:28pm

re: #27 TampaKnight

re: #35 American-African

Doesn't it seem risky to let Congress have power over the Fed?

39 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:32:37pm

re: #8 Buck

I heard someone else on the radio today explain that the world ganged up on Haiti because they defied Napoleon. And that Haiti was blackballed in the world because they were the first Black country to declare themselves an independent nation. The USA waited 50 years to recognize Haiti as a country...

Sure imperialism stinks in some ways, but it is harder to be independent.

That is correct. This outrageous behaviour was clearly racist in motivation as the USA should have embraced a fellow revolutionary country rebelling against Imperialism, instead, they participated in the boycott, and later engaged in exploitation.

In this was a proud, free nation of self liberating slaves, something unique in history, was suppressed, excluded and degraded, directly leading to the current despair, poverty and dysfunctional society.

The USA by contrast, had assistance and once free was able to trade with other European nations.

40 Kragar  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:33:46pm

re: #24 brookly red

/but doncha wanna hear her opinion on wold issues?

You know things are tough when her own publicist dumps her for being a grubby skank.

41 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:34:02pm

re: #33 lawhawk

From a protest sign on a former lizard's site: "Israel Broke My Arm!"

42 TampaKnight  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:34:23pm

re: #36 ArchangelMichael

You're in favor of a "fishing expedition" by uberlibertarian Paulistinan kooks and gold standard fetishists to try to find a nonexistent conspiracy to screw everyone by (insert euphemism for Jewish Bankers here) so that we can further destroy the economy by going to an outdated unworkable monetary system...

Ok.

Wow, quite the broad sweeping generalizations and unfounded assumptions there. I suppose allowing an exclusive, secretive, central planning bank with virtually unlimited authority to have their way- and not dare ask what they're doing or who they're doing it with. Pretty terrible position to take.

Besides, giving them the ultimate authority to manipulate interest rates for years, in spite of market conditions, to create the gigantic housing boom really went well for us, now didn't it?

43 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:34:50pm

re: #35 American-African

Let's audit and see that's there. We are too big to not have a central bank, so let's require a larger reserve be held than the current 10% If the banks are sitting on 50% or 60% reserves, they would be dying to lend, not pay huge bonuses.

The Fed is already required to submit to an audit by an independent auditing firm annually. They also provide written and oral testimony on their activities to Congress on both an annual and a quarterly basis. The amount of light already falling on the Fed and it's internal workings is roughly equivalent to the noonday sun on Mercury.

Ron Paul is a moron. And a liar.

44 American-African  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:34:56pm

re: #38 wrenchwench

re: #35 American-African

Doesn't it seem risky to let Congress have power over the Fed?

Yes it would be risky, but look at how well we have fared with the Fed as a private bank.

45 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:35:38pm

re: #19 SixDegrees

Why does the word "leech" always come to mind when this twit is mentioned?

The word that comes to mind for me when I hear the name Tila Tequila is syphillus.

46 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:35:43pm

re: #40 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You know things are tough when her own publicist dumps her for being a grubby skank.

/hey a little rehab, some volunteer work as a CO... could have a brilliant future.

47 TampaKnight  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:36:06pm

re: #43 SixDegrees

The Fed is already required to submit to an audit by an independent auditing firm annually. They also provide written and oral testimony on their activities to Congress on both an annual and a quarterly basis. The amount of light already falling on the Fed and it's internal workings is roughly equivalent to the noonday sun on Mercury.

Ron Paul is a moron. And a liar.

Yes, they shed so much light and were so open that virtually every single oversight and regulatory agency in this nation missed the boat COMPLETELY in allowing the latest financial meltdown to occur.

48 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:37:00pm

re: #28 SixDegrees

Seismic codes in the US, even outside CA are better than the building conditions in Haiti, but few structures would actually survive a quake of New Madrid proportions (8.2 mag, level IX intensity), even in CA. Quality of construction is an important issue, but a direct hit from a major quake would cause damage to all but the most hardened structures.

49 lostlakehiker  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:37:13pm

Haiti is a mountainous island nation. Haiti will be very little affected by rising sea levels. As to the rest of global warming, that's probably low on the list of Haiti's troubles. I'm no AGW denier, but Bangladesh, Pacific atoll nations, and so on are far more at risk.

As to why structures in Haiti are bad, they're bad because no rebar was included in the construction. Failing rebar, chicken wire makes a big difference.

Failing chicken wire, any little bump will destroy a building. That's also what happened in Iran (Qom? I forget the name of the city) and in a rural area of Nepal. Buildings made of stones piled one atop the other just don't stand up well to shaking.

It should be on the agenda to make sure that as Haiti rebuilds, it rebuilds with rebar and chicken wire. Give them the stuff, subject only to the condition that it not be reexported. Send teams to explain how it's used.

Greenville, Kansas was pretty much destroyed by a tornado. As they rebuild, they're doing so with a state of the art building code. That way, next time, the structures will stand, or if hit in the worst possible way, at least the "safe room" will be safe. That's the spirit. Don't get sucker punched by nature twice in the same spot.

50 exelwood  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:37:26pm

So who's crazier? Robertson or Glover?

51 Stuart Leviton  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:38:12pm

What difficulties do the survivors face? Case in point below:

Those who are rescued often need immediate care to avoid death from the shock and kidney failure than can occur in people with crushed limbs as accumulated toxins in damaged tissue rush into the bloodstream.

Patients with crush injuries are often given saline and a substance called mannitol, both of which increase the flow of urine and flush out the kidneys, but medical supplies remained scarce in much of the capital. A 21-year-old student with a crushed foot was extracted from the rubble of a school, but it was not clear whether he would get the amputation or treatment he needed to live.

Saving even one life is difficult; Multiply that by an entire population in an area besieged by aftershocks.

52 Soap_Man  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:38:25pm

re: #50 exelwood

So who's crazier? Robertson or Glover?

For the previous statement or their all-time record?

53 American-African  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:39:16pm

re: #43 SixDegrees

The Fed is already required to submit to an audit by an independent auditing firm annually.

Have these audits not provided any interesting data for us to sift through? I am no Ron Paul fan though. I just have a lot of mistrust for banks and their fractional reserve lending. Let's raise the reserve requirement and see what happens.

54 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:40:05pm

Poor Danny Glover.

Does he have a fund?

55 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:40:12pm

re: #47 TampaKnight

Yes, they shed so much light and were so open that virtually every single oversight and regulatory agency in this nation missed the boat COMPLETELY in allowing the latest financial meltdown to occur.

I don't recall anyone in Congress raising any alarms, either. And concerns had been raised - by the Fed itself - over a housing market that had moved from being property driven to being dominated by speculation. Congress ignored all such warnings and continued to push for laws and laxening of regulations that fed the expanding housing bubble long after it should have been obvious that it was in danger of collapse.

I don't see how more auditing would have been beneficial.

I do, however, see how handing control of monetary policy over to the most cravenly political body on the planet would be a complete disaster.

56 Jack Burton  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:40:36pm

re: #42 TampaKnight

Wow, quite the broad sweeping generalizations and unfounded assumptions there. I suppose allowing an exclusive, secretive, central planning bank with virtually unlimited authority to have their way- and not dare ask what they're doing or who they're doing it with. Pretty terrible position to take.

Besides, giving them the ultimate authority to manipulate interest rates for years, in spite of market conditions, to create the gigantic housing boom really went well for us, now didn't it?

ROFLcopter... not even going into this too deep anymore srsly. Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, and that whole crowd of Gold Standard kooks have made their objective crystal clear. It has been discussed here ad nauseam. They want to dismantle the Federal Reserve system and put us on the Gold Standard and everything they do is meant as a step in that direction. They have a couple of legitimate criticism about the Federal Reserve System and I agree some reform should be in order but... there couple of "good points" are hidden in a mountain of conspiracy theory garbage. They have to offer up anything remotely close to a working idea for a replacement, no less an actual good one.

57 American-African  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:40:36pm

re: #50 exelwood

So who's crazier? Robertson or Glover?

all of the above

58 Stuart Leviton  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:40:53pm

oops, I forgot to attribute my source as todays New York Times. Sorry.

59 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:41:03pm

re: #39 Bagua

That is correct. This outrageous behaviour was clearly racist in motivation as the USA should have embraced a fellow revolutionary country rebelling against Imperialism, instead, they participated in the boycott, and later engaged in exploitation.

In this was a proud, free nation of self liberating slaves, something unique in history, was suppressed, excluded and degraded, directly leading to the current despair, poverty and dysfunctional society.

The USA by contrast, had assistance and once free was able to trade with other European nations.


If you look past that whole confiscation of our trade ships and burning down the capitol thing. Morocco was quicker to recognize us as a country than any European nation.

I suspect our weath of national resources and geographic distance from old Europe had more to do with our break away success than the benevolance of the old European powers.

That being said the French devistated their country and even charged reparations for the loss of their slaves. North America could have jumped in to recognize them and support their government much quicker but the US was busy debating if black men should be freedmen at the time and we didn't get through with that debate until 65 years later.

60 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:41:14pm

re: #55 SixDegrees

the most cravenly political body

That'd be a great rotating title!

61 prairiefire  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:41:27pm

re: #17 American-African

As I read the text, I had to force myself not to understand what Glover meant to say. And had the French not fleeced Haiti with the help of so many other nations, including ours, there may have been structures sound enough to avoid the massive calamity the international community must now help to repair.

Imagine if the United States were forced to pay England reparations for the lost colonies. I had to scour the internet before I found details about that part of Haitian history.

I just hope the Haitian people are not forced into the same kind of central, fractional reserve banking system. There has to be another way.

I think they will be forced to cede control of their country to a foreign governing body. Particularly because they have no money for a bank of any kind. No money, no savings/insurance, no remote ownership or commonwealth type of situation as a backup.

62 John Neverbend  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:41:37pm

re: #16 Girth

Today's Headlines:

Wingnuts Claim Someone Said Something He Didn't Say

in related news:

Actor Danny Glover Still an Asshole

I can't comment on the related news, but I've read many of the Wingnut criticisms of Glover, and not one of them bothers to counter with the more obvious geological explanation. Instead, the implication is that since there's no such thing as global warming, how could it possibly have caused the earthquake. However, as I mentioned in the earlier thread, there are some scientists who believe that global warming could indeed lead to an increase in earthquake activity. In this case, it's not the most probable explanation, although it's infinitely ahead of Pat Robertson.

63 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:41:46pm

re: #50 exelwood

So who's crazier? Robertson or Glover?

yes

64 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:41:49pm

re: #8 Buck

I heard someone else on the radio today explain that the world ganged up on Haiti because they defied Napoleon. And that Haiti was blackballed in the world because they were the first Black country to declare themselves an independent nation. The USA waited 50 years to recognize Haiti as a country...

Sure imperialism stinks in some ways, but it is harder to be independent.

The USA had to wait until slavery in the US was ended before they could recognize a nation founded by a slave uprising. This is why it was OK to recognize Liberia, which was founded with the approval of white massas looking for a place to dump their unwanted slaves.

65 John Neverbend  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:42:39pm

re: #50 exelwood

So who's crazier? Robertson or Glover?

Who's statements are more crazy? Robertson, without a doubt.

66 TampaKnight  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:42:44pm

re: #56 ArchangelMichael

ROFLcopter... not even going into this too deep anymore srsly. Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, and that whole crowd of Gold Standard kooks have made their objective crystal clear. It has been discussed here ad nauseam. They want to dismantle the Federal Reserve system and put us on the Gold Standard and everything they do is meant as a step in that direction. They have a couple of legitimate criticism about the Federal Reserve System and I agree some reform should be in order but... there couple of "good points" are hidden in a mountain of conspiracy theory garbage. They have to offer up anything remotely close to a working idea for a replacement, no less an actual good one.

That's nice. I, the person discussing this with you, have said nothing about a return to a gold standard. I've simply said that they DO bring up strong points about the severe missteps that the Fed has encountered over the many years, which were cloaked by secrecy and exclusiveness that the current system provides.

67 prairiefire  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:42:51pm

re: #64 Alouette

I don't think that the US recognized the royalty of Hawaii, ever.

68 ExCamelJockey  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:43:59pm

You are saying that it's a stretch for a Hugo Chavez loving leftist to have made an Al Gore like statement blaming the earthquake on global warming? Leftist blogs have blamed global warming for everything from hamster zits to Tiger Woods infidelity. It's just all too common. Barring any other evidence I'd assume that's exactly what Glover meant.


Yes, (Bush is) racist. We all knew that, but the world is only finding it out now.
-Danny Glover

69 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:44:30pm

re: #61 prairiefire

I think they will be forced to cede control of their country to a foreign governing body. Particularly because they have no money for a bank of any kind. No money, no savings/insurance, no remote ownership or commonwealth type of situation as a backup.

Maybe not.


France has asked the Paris Club of creditor nations to speed up the process of canceling Haiti's debt.

France's Economy Minister Christine Lagarde says she has contacted other members of the Paris Club to accelerate the cancellation of Haiti's debt of nearly $78 million.

Haiti did owe $84 million. But Lagarde says about $6 million has been canceled since Tuesday's devastating earthquake.

France chairs the Paris Club, which in July agreed to cancel most of the debt owed by Haiti, the Western Hemisphere's poorest country.

In addition to France, the Paris Club includes the United States, Britain, Japan, Russia, Germany and 13 other countries.

On Thursday, French President Nicholas Sarkozy called for an international conference on rebuilding Haiti, a former French colony.

SNIP

70 Jack Burton  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:45:12pm

re: #66 TampaKnight

That's nice. I, the person discussing this with you, have said nothing about a return to a gold standard. I've simply said that they DO bring up strong points about the severe missteps that the Fed has encountered over the many years, which were cloaked by secrecy and exclusiveness that the current system provides.

If you support the bill authored by Ron Paul, you are giving tacit approval to his nonsense. He needs to be told to take his conspiracy bullshit and go away, we need adults handling the situation.

When someone who isn't a kook authors a reasonable bill on the subject, I'll look into it.

71 prairiefire  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:45:26pm

re: #69 MandyManners

That's a start.

72 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:45:49pm

re: #48 lawhawk

Seismic codes in the US, even outside CA are better than the building conditions in Haiti, but few structures would actually survive a quake of New Madrid proportions (8.2 mag, level IX intensity), even in CA. Quality of construction is an important issue, but a direct hit from a major quake would cause damage to all but the most hardened structures.

True. But the real problem with the New Madrid fault is the underlying geology. The last one, as noted, rang church bells in Boston, over a thousand miles away. The sedimentary rocks in the eastern US transmit shockwaves much more efficiently than their igneous western counterparts, so the intensity will be greater over a much larger (and densely populated) area than a similar-magnitude shock in the west. And there aren't earthquake-resistant building codes of sufficient rigor anywhere east of the Rockies that allow buildings to withstand such an event.

There would be, if earthquakes were as common in the region as they are in California. But they're quite rare, and people drift away from caring as time erases impact.

Same in Haiti, where they haven't had a significant earthquake for a couple hundred years. I don't think it's oppression or imperialism at work so much as a distinct lack of concern to begin with.

73 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:47:11pm

re: #71 prairiefire

That's a start.

Now if we can just get them to plant some trees.

74 TampaKnight  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:47:14pm

re: #70 ArchangelMichael

If you support the bill authored by Ron Paul, you are giving tacit approval to his nonsense. He needs to be told to take his conspiracy bullshit and go away, we need adults handling the situation.

When someone who isn't a kook authors a reasonable bill on the subject, I'll look into it.

The massive problems and manipulations of our monetary policy by the Fed are no conspiracy theories.

75 prairiefire  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:47:48pm

re: #73 MandyManners

And not cut them down to make charcoal.

76 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:48:00pm

re: #66 TampaKnight

The current system does not provide secrecy, though. That's the problem with their argument.

77 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:48:09pm

re: #72 SixDegrees

You might want to check out the cities of Memphis and St. Louis. They're quite aware of the New Madrid fault.

78 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:48:23pm

Later, Lizards.

79 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:48:35pm

re: #73 MandyManners

Now if we can just get them to plant some trees.


In fairness it is kind of hard to wait 100 years for an Oak to mature when you need firewood to stave off exposure and starvation.

80 Kragar  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:49:10pm

John Stewart unloads on Rush, Robertson and MSNBC over Haiti

81 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:49:11pm

re: #68 ExCamelJockey

You are saying that it's a stretch for a Hugo Chavez loving leftist to have made an Al Gore like statement blaming the earthquake on global warming? Leftist blogs have blamed global warming for everything from hamster zits to Tiger Woods infidelity. It's just all too common. Barring any other evidence I'd assume that's exactly what Glover meant.

Yes, (Bush is) racist. We all knew that, but the world is only finding it out now.
-Danny Glover

Uh - what's being said is really very simple: that Glover didn't say anything like what he's accused of having said. His own words are above; I have no idea what it is he's trying to say, but I don't see anything in it about global warming causing earthquakes, either.

Assuming you're willing to accept Glover's actual words as evidence, that is.

82 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:49:21pm

re: #72 SixDegrees

Then again, they have a constant threat from hurricanes, and that's done little to improve their building codes or construction techniques. A concerted effort during rebuilding to take seismic and hurricane threats into account would result in initially higher cost rebuilding, but would have a longer term benefit in less damage from storms and allow the Haitians to be able to invest and grow the economy instead of simply subsisting.

83 robdouth  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:49:28pm

re: #56 ArchangelMichael

Say what you will about Paul, but Schiff is at least more legitimate, because he was predicting the meltdown 2 years before it happened. I know the follow up will be that if you cry wolf long enough, sometime there will be a wolf, but he nailed the exact reason why and was shouted down on a financial show by a number of "experts" one of which was Ben Stein, when they were all saying in 2007 that everything was groovy, no worries, nothing to see here. I don't know about his conspiracy theories, but every time I've seen him on television, he seems measured, and usually knows what he's talking about. It's why I'm hesitant on this "recovery" because he made it sound like we are trying to recover by doubling down on what got us in this mess in the first place. I hope he's wrong on that point though.

84 TampaKnight  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:50:09pm

re: #76 Obdicut

The current system does not provide secrecy, though. That's the problem with their argument.

Yes, it does. The GAO can NOT audit the following items:

-transactions for or with a foreign central bank, government of a foreign country, or nonprivate international financing organization;
-deliberations, decisions, or actions on monetary policy matters, including discount window operations, reserves of member banks, securities credit, interest on deposits, and open market operations
-transactions made under the direction of the Federal Open Market Committee; or
-a part of a discussion or communication among or between members of the Board of Governors and officers and employees of the Federal Reserve System related to clauses (1)-(3) of this subsection of US Code.

It's like the GAO examining a house and only being able to look at the kitchen.

85 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:51:08pm

re: #77 MandyManners

You might want to check out the cities of Memphis and St. Louis. They're quite aware of the New Madrid fault.

There have been efforts in recent years to prepare for the inevitable. The added cost associated with such measures has blocked a lot of proposed building code changes, and most of the structures in those and other nearby cities will be severely damaged when the quake finally occurs.

86 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:52:36pm

re: #82 lawhawk

Then again, they have a constant threat from hurricanes, and that's done little to improve their building codes or construction techniques. A concerted effort during rebuilding to take seismic and hurricane threats into account would result in initially higher cost rebuilding, but would have a longer term benefit in less damage from storms and allow the Haitians to be able to invest and grow the economy instead of simply subsisting.

Oh, I think this is a golden opportunity for improvement in those regards. Just pointing out that the dearth of earthquake resistant building has little to do with white oppression and imperialism.

87 Jack Burton  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:53:00pm

re: #83 robdouth

Figuring out that the economy was going to crash in the housing boom wasn't rocket science.

Schiff advocates the gold standard. Anyone who understands 3rd grade math and has a bit of knowledge about economics and monetary policy knows that going back to that, now in 2010, is one of the dumbest ideas since 'vaccines cause autism'.

88 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:53:16pm

re: #59 DaddyG


If you look past that whole confiscation of our trade ships and burning down the capitol thing. Morocco was quicker to recognize us as a country than any European nation.

I suspect our weath of national resources and geographic distance from old Europe had more to do with our break away success than the benevolance of the old European powers.

Not to mention the vastly more advanced European population. The Haitians were slaves, abducted from primitive societies without technology or education. It is amazing that they managed to defeat the Imperial army and later Napoleon.

That being said the French devistated their country and even charged reparations for the loss of their slaves. North America could have jumped in to recognize them and support their government much quicker but the US was busy debating if black men should be freedmen at the time and we didn't get through with that debate until 65 years later.

Exactly, with the Americans, English and Germans also taking turn looting Haiti’s little wealth and resources.

89 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:53:31pm

re: #84 TampaKnight

Yes, it does. The GAO can NOT audit the following items:

-transactions for or with a foreign central bank, government of a foreign country, or nonprivate international financing organization;
-deliberations, decisions, or actions on monetary policy matters, including discount window operations, reserves of member banks, securities credit, interest on deposits, and open market operations
-transactions made under the direction of the Federal Open Market Committee; or
-a part of a discussion or communication among or between members of the Board of Governors and officers and employees of the Federal Reserve System related to clauses (1)-(3) of this subsection of US Code.

It's like the GAO examining a house and only being able to look at the kitchen.

And your source for this incredibly incorrect information would be...?

90 Buck  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:53:40pm

re: #50 exelwood

So who's crazier? Robertson or Glover?

Six of one, and half dozen of the other....

91 TampaKnight  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:54:41pm

re: #87 ArchangelMichael

Figuring out that the economy was going to crash in the housing boom wasn't rocket science.
blockquote>

Yet I heard virtually no mainsteam chatter about this from the supposed experts. The "nutjobs" you keep harping on did in fact predict this correctly.

If this was so easy to predict, why did it hit every "expert" like a sack of bricks last September?

92 Buck  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:55:09pm

re: #89 SixDegrees

And your source for this incredibly incorrect information would be...?

[Link: www.law.cornell.edu...]

93 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:56:50pm

re: #87 ArchangelMichael

Figuring out that the economy was going to crash in the housing boom wasn't rocket science.

Schiff advocates the gold standard. Anyone who understands 3rd grade math and has a bit of knowledge about economics and monetary policy knows that going back to that, now in 2010, is one of the dumbest ideas since 'vaccines cause autism'.

It was the timing. IINM Schiff did not profit much from his predictions as he traded them wrong. A stopped clock is right twice a day as they say, but calling the action and placing the correct trade are two very different things.

Talk of the gold standard now is indeed idiocy.

94 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:56:56pm

re: #49 lostlakehiker

Haiti is a mountainous island nation. Haiti will be very little affected by rising sea levels. As to the rest of global warming, that's probably low on the list of Haiti's troubles. I'm no AGW denier, but Bangladesh, Pacific atoll nations, and so on are far more at risk.

I agree that there are probably areas more at risk from rising sea levels than Haiti, but just because Haiti is mountainous doesn't mean it's immune either. The lifefblood of any island nation is its seaports, and if sea levels rise enough to shut down the big ports -- big trouble would ensue.

95 John Neverbend  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:57:20pm

re: #81 SixDegrees

I have no idea what it is he's trying to say, but I don't see anything in it about global warming causing earthquakes, either.

I still am inclined to interpret his statements to mean just that, but my point is that the Wingnuts are wrong to fault him in the way that they have for that statement, if indeed he meant it (and I accept there is some doubt). I would simply argue that it's not the most obvious explanation, although it's not wrong to believe, on the basis of current scientific understanding, that increased earthquake activity could result from global warming. It's almost certainly wrong in this particular case. However, it's far far away from what Pat Robertson said.

96 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:57:43pm

re: #82 lawhawk

Then again, they have a constant threat from hurricanes, and that's done little to improve their building codes or construction techniques. A concerted effort during rebuilding to take seismic and hurricane threats into account would result in initially higher cost rebuilding, but would have a longer term benefit in less damage from storms and allow the Haitians to be able to invest and grow the economy instead of simply subsisting.

Extreme Home Infrastructure Makeover Haiti. Let the TV rights defray the cost. You could get a whole season out of it!

97 TampaKnight  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:58:10pm

re: #89 SixDegrees

And your source for this incredibly incorrect information would be...?

Oh, just the GAO's website which published a report on this matter in 1993 and stands the same today.

[Link: www.gao.gov...]

98 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:58:19pm

re: #87 ArchangelMichael

Figuring out that the economy was going to crash in the housing boom wasn't rocket science.

Schiff advocates the gold standard. Anyone who understands 3rd grade math and has a bit of knowledge about economics and monetary policy knows that going back to that, now in 2010, is one of the dumbest ideas since 'vaccines cause autism'.

Sorry if I'm jumping in here, but I did read a while back (perhaps a Sowell column - not sure) that the total value of all the gold either in reserves or in known areas not yet mined is only about 1/3 of the U.S. GDP for last year. In other words, a shift to the gold standard would require a contraction of current GDP by about 2/3's. (If my numbers are a little off, they're not by much.) So, yep, returning to the gold standard would be a very unpleasant experience.

(But I'm not an expert in this area by any means. Well, or any other area either.)

;-)

99 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:58:39pm

re: #96 DaddyG

Extreme Home Infrastructure Makeover Haiti. Let the TV rights defray the cost. You could get a whole season out of it!

Survivor: Haiti might be more appropriate now.

100 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:58:54pm

re: #95 John Neverbend

I still am inclined to interpret his statements to mean just that, but my point is that the Wingnuts are wrong to fault him in the way that they have for that statement, if indeed he meant it (and I accept there is some doubt). I would simply argue that it's not the most obvious explanation, although it's not wrong to believe, on the basis of current scientific understanding, that increased earthquake activity could result from global warming. It's almost certainly wrong in this particular case. However, it's far far away from what Pat Robertson said.

Right before the quoted section, he's talking about international relief efforts and the ships that are on their way.

101 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:58:56pm

re: #94 Charles

I agree that there are probably areas more at risk from rising sea levels than Haiti, but just because Haiti is mountainous doesn't mean it's immune either. The lifefblood of any island nation is its seaports, and if sea levels rise enough to shut down the big ports -- big trouble would ensue.

And most of the population lives in the low lying areas like Port-au-Prince.

102 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:58:58pm
103 prairiefire  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 12:59:03pm

Oy, the gold standard. Doesn't returning to it affect how nimble the US can be to respond to economic bubbles, etc? Plus, leave us much more vulnerable to inflation?

104 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:00:32pm

re: #103 prairiefire

Oy, the gold standard. Doesn't returning to it affect how nimble the US can be to respond to economic bubbles, etc? Plus, leave us much more vulnerable to inflation?

Makes you wonder if those who advocate its return understand just how little gold there is to begin with...

105 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:01:28pm

re: #104 Varek Raith

Makes you wonder if those who advocate its return understand just how little gold there is to begin with...


Gold in your mouth
Your hat on sideways
looking like a fool with your pants on the ground...
your pants on the ground...

106 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:01:43pm

re: #97 TampaKnight

Oh, just the GAO's website which published a report on this matter in 1993 and stands the same today.

[Link: www.gao.gov...]

From another page at your link:

About GAO

The U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) is an independent, nonpartisan agency that works for Congress.

Maybe a little self-interest in there?

107 Jack Burton  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:02:16pm

re: #91 TampaKnight

I predicted it. I don't have a PhD in economics. They didn't because they had a financial interest in keeping the bullshit and were believing their own nonsense. If you haven't figured out that every one of these "experts" and these idiots in the financial media like CNBC live conflicts of interest every day of their life, well I'm sorry to say you've been duped. Jim Cramer is constantly pushing his lemming fans into bad investments, and then looks them all right in the face later and pretends it's never happened and he's only one example of this.

108 John Neverbend  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:02:43pm

re: #100 Charles

Right before the quoted section, he's talking about international relief efforts and the ships that are on their way.


Yes, you're right, and I took that into account, having listened to the dialogue several times. However, it's my belief that he's linking his statements about the perils facing the islands through global warming to his immediately following statement about "the response" which I think he was using to mean "the result" (which I took to be the earthquake) because this would then be consistent with his statement about "what happens". Of course, I can't get into Glover's head, so I accept that I may be wrong. I would be interested to see if he provides some further clarification.

109 TampaKnight  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:03:01pm

re: #106 wrenchwench

Maybe a little self-interest in there?

So you're suggesting that the GAO was campaigning in 1993 for a bill that would be introduced in 2009?

110 robdouth  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:03:07pm

re: #81 SixDegrees

I have to agree, I could see how some could misconstrue his words as saying we as a planet got this as a result of not doing enough at Copenhagen, like it was retribution from "gaia", but after Charles explanation, I just can't see that being the case, and I think you have to give him a chance to clarify himself, especially since he was on a horrible sounding connection. The same leniency should not be afforded to Pat Robertson though because in context and with explanation, it's still damning. Also, Rush was given a chance to pull back and doubled down on his comments, so that seems to be the jist of it, unless I'm missing something.

111 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:03:16pm

We need a Big Mac standard. It is the only worldwide commodity that we can pin a constant value on, and we can produce more or consume them as needed to balance the treasury.

112 Buck  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:04:01pm

re: #102 SixDegrees

Sorry, not buying it.

You don't have to buy anything. You asked where he got the information. You called it inaccurate. All you had to do is take almost any sentence, put quotes around it, and drop it in google.

Up comes a whole bunch of very reliable sites, including Cornell Law school.

Not opinion, or a summary (like your link), but the actual US CODE.

I don't know one way or the other, and frankly don't care. BUT you have to admit his quote was accurate. Not his opinion about what it means maybe, but the actual quote.

113 prairiefire  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:04:42pm

re: #107 ArchangelMichael

Answa (sp?) was the only guy on CNBC to see it coming in the summer of 2007, and he left the network.

114 American-African  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:04:48pm

re: #92 Buck

[Link: www.law.cornell.edu...]

Nice reposte... You must have studies fencing.

115 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:05:10pm

re: #112 Buck

I wasn't arguing the accuracy of the quotes, but the contents of the post it appeared in.

It's pure BS.

116 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:05:16pm

re: #111 DaddyG

We need a Big Mac standard. It is the only worldwide commodity that we can pin a constant value on, and we can produce more or consume them as needed to balance the treasury.

How about a Royale With Cheese standard?

117 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:05:43pm

re: #111 DaddyG

We need a Big Mac standard. It is the only worldwide commodity that we can pin a constant value on, and we can produce more or consume them as needed to balance the treasury.

/how do we tax it? is there a government agency waiting behind the counter to to take 2 bites out of it before you even get it?

118 Jack Burton  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:05:54pm

re: #93 Bagua

It was the timing. IINM Schiff did not profit much from his predictions as he traded them wrong. A stopped clock is right twice a day as they say, but calling the action and placing the correct trade are two very different things.

Talk of the gold standard now is indeed idiocy.

He traded them wrong because he was expecting total armageddon and a breakdown of civilization to occur. He pushed all his financial service customers into long plays on gold and agri well past the little bubble in them that he was partially responsible for creating in the first place. A lot of people lost a lot of money because Schiff was emotionally attached to his own BS story.

119 robdouth  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:06:17pm

re: #87 ArchangelMichael

Again, I don't know anything about the gold standard business, and if you're right, it's bad policy, but one crazy policy doesn't change the fact that he was saying the economy was in for a rough patch and was shouted down repeatedly. No one was agreeing with him. You say it wasn't rocket science, but in every video I've watched of him, people are saying they are willing to bet he's wrong and all that as early as late 2006 and early 2007. If it's not rocket science, then all of the people who were promoted by the shows as experts were just idiots. I disagree with the premise that everyone saw it coming that early. Maybe I have my timing wrong, maybe it was early 2006. When did the official decline start to happen anyway. I'm having cloudiness in my mind grapes.

120 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:06:23pm

re: #109 TampaKnight

So you're suggesting that the GAO was campaigning in 1993 for a bill that would be introduced in 2009?

No. Just that they were grasping for power then and they still are now. It's what they do.

121 TampaKnight  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:07:34pm

re: #120 wrenchwench

No. Just that they were grasping for power then and they still are now. It's what they do.

I wasn't trying to guess at their motives, merely point out that my facts came from the GAO themselves, as I had been questioned where my "incorrect" facts came from.

122 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:08:15pm

Match the personality with the real context of their remarks:

Danny Glover
Pat Roberston
Rush Limbaugh
Anne Coulter
Al Franken

Reads other peoples scripts for a living
Make money and fame recycling 5th grade humor
Suffers from tone deafness of many kinds but still gets rich off of it
Has great faith in a book that demential has taken from memory
Could use a good meal and a good screw

Enjoy!

123 MKELLY  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:09:14pm

"The threat of what happened to Haiti is the threat that could happen anywhere in the Caribbean, to these island nations."

Of course he meant the earthquake. What "threat ... happened" to Haiti in the last few days. It was not sea level increase. It was not melting glaciers. It was not loss of polar bears. He meant the earthquake was caused by global warming.

124 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:09:33pm

re: #118 ArchangelMichael

Indeed.

125 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:10:22pm

re: #116 Mad Al-Jaffee

How about a Royale With Cheese standard?

Have you seen California's debt recently?

126 Jack Burton  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:10:27pm

re: #119 robdouth

They aren't idiots, they just get caught up in their hype. They are all making money and they want it to continue. They had a interest in keeping things going no matter how asinine it got. No matter how parabolic the price charts became. I'm amazed the housing crash didn't occur in 2006 myself. They were able to bullshit people into buying for well over a year after anyone should have in their right mind and now we are all paying for it.

127 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:11:19pm

re: #122 DaddyG

Match the personality with the real context of their remarks:

Danny Glover
Pat Roberston
Rush Limbaugh
Anne Coulter
Al Franken

DG Reads other peoples scripts for a living
AF Make money and fame recycling 5th grade humor
RL Suffers from tone deafness of many kinds but still gets rich off of it
PR Has great faith in a book that demential has taken from memory
AC Could use a good meal and a good screw

what do i win?

128 Jack Burton  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:11:28pm

re: #124 Bagua

Indeed.

And now the tea party kooks want him in the Senate...

129 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:12:07pm

re: #127 brookly red

what do I win

10 snark points and an upding!

130 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:13:43pm

re: #123 MKELLY

Uh - no. See above.

131 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:14:24pm

I am always amazed by the number of people who can read minds on the internet. Most of them can even tell me what I really meant when I typed something even when I didn't know it myself.

This amazing talent seems to be bipartisan and ecumenical but interestinly enough works better on people with opposing viewpoints.

132 John Neverbend  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:14:38pm

re: #127 brookly red

Anne Coulter. You get to read the book to her.

133 Idle Drifter  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:15:11pm

If there is one absolute about tragedies and atrocities across the world there is no shortage of assholes that would use the dead as a soapbox.

-Just my quick two cents.

134 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:15:29pm

re: #132 John Neverbend

Anne Coulter. You get to read the book to her.

/a pox upon your ancestors

135 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:15:38pm

re: #131 DaddyG

I am always amazed by the number of people who can read minds on the internet. Most of them can even tell me what I really meant when I typed something even when I didn't know it myself.

This amazing talent seems to be bipartisan and ecumenical but interestinly enough works better on people with opposing viewpoints.

I think you meant to have another "g" in there.

:)

136 theliel  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:16:08pm

Other people who 'predicted' the housing bubble/economic collapse...
Calculated risk, barry ritholtz (the big picture), Tanta (RIP), prof. roubini(sp)...lots of people saw it coming.

the SEC, congress (let's repeal glass-stegal! that's a genious idea!), the fed and various other regulatory agencies all got together (at the urging of the executive and legislative branches) to let that clusterfuck happen.

137 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:16:25pm

re: #132 John Neverbend

Anne Coulter. You get to read the book to her.

And give her the screw she needs.

I mean the kind you use with a screwdriver! She has many home improvement projects going on.

138 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:17:05pm

I noticed something that needs a correction in the small excerpt of Glover's comments which I indicated in bold text below:

The threat of what happened to Haiti is the threat that could happen anywhere in the Caribbean, to these island nations. You know, they’re all in peril because of global warming, they’re all in peril because of climate change and all this. And we need to find … when we did what we did at the climate summit, in Copenhagen, this is the response, this is what happens, you know what I’m sayin’? That we have to act now.

It's easily obvious what Mr. Glover is trying to communicate. He is speaking about the international response to world natural disasters as a model for the world response to predicted disasters caused by climate change. Glover presents a list of disasters when he says "climate change and all this" -- by saying all this he means to include the earthquake in Haiti and others around the globe.

He is applauding COP15 (for its potential to respond collectively to the threat of AGW) but also states that we "need to do more" while at the same time appreciating the global response to the earthquake in Haiti. In the end, Glover is seeing the Haiti earthquake and the subsequent world response ("to act now") as a model for responding to AGW ("to act now").

139 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:18:47pm

re: #123 MKELLY

re: #138 Gus 802

Translation is such a difficult business.

/

140 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:19:06pm

Both Ann Coulter and Pat Robertson could use a good screw. And I'm thinking someone ought to invite them to the same party and see what happens.

Of course, when Robertson finds out that Ms. Adam's Apple the Perfected Jew has bigger balls than he does, things could get ugly.

141 Jack Burton  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:19:56pm

re: #136 theliel

Other people who 'predicted' the housing bubble/economic collapse...
Calculated risk, barry ritholtz (the big picture), Tanta (RIP), prof. roubini(sp)...lots of people saw it coming.

the SEC, congress (let's repeal glass-stegal! that's a genious idea!), the fed and various other regulatory agencies all got together (at the urging of the executive and legislative branches) to let that clusterfuck happen.

Everyone who got on a financial news network and predicted the collapse, if you notice, wasn't one of their "rock stars". They were actual economists that you don't hear much from. CNBC was far too happy pretending the Dow was headed to 100k and raking in all the sponsors money. Ever see the Fast Money during that period. It was like watching a game show, the Super Bowl halftime show, or an awards ceremony.

142 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:20:06pm

re: #140 Cato the Elder

Both Ann Coulter and Pat Robertson could use a good screw. And I'm thinking someone ought to invite them to the same party and see what happens.

Of course, when Robertson finds out that Ms. Adam's Apple the Perfected Jew has bigger balls than he does, things could get ugly.

I'll be passing out the mind bleach.
/:)

143 theliel  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:20:26pm

re: #140 Cato the Elder

Of course, when Robertson finds out that Ms. Adam's Apple the Perfected Jew has bigger balls than he does, things could get ugly.

That way lies madness. And probably some massive cash if you could film it, but it'd totally take 2d10 SAN along the way.

144 John Neverbend  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:20:52pm

re: #123 MKELLY

Of course he meant the earthquake.

Whether he did mean it or not, of greater concern to me is that the Wingnuts might claim that by simply denying that Glover actually meant it, one is tacitly accepting the absurdity of the belief that global warming could ever lead to increased earthquake activity, when I'm not at all sure that it is an absurd statement. I don't want to grant that "victory", however small.

145 theliel  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:21:31pm

re: #141 ArchangelMichael

It's true. CNBC and all the other 'financial' networks were pretty much cheer leading the entire fruad.

Back in '08 there was a great youtube montoge of the usual suspects browbeating the fuck out of roubini complete with how he was 100% right.

146 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:21:49pm

It's getting weirder. This is the current Drudge headline (linking to this Telegraph story):

Actor Danny Glover Says Quake 'Response' For Screwing Up Climate Summit In Copenhagen...

Creative to say the least......

147 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:22:18pm

re: #139 wrenchwench

re: #138 Gus 802

Translation is such a difficult business.

/

Reading and listening is teh hard! /

Yeah, in no way did he say that the earthquake was caused by climate change. He does seems to free associate and there are a couple of unfinished phrases but it's there. Or not there in this case.

148 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:23:04pm

re: #69 MandyManners

Maybe not.


France has asked the Paris Club of creditor nations to speed up the process of canceling Haiti's debt.

France's Economy Minister Christine Lagarde says she has contacted other members of the Paris Club to accelerate the cancellation of Haiti's debt of nearly $78 million.

Haiti did owe $84 million. But Lagarde says about $6 million has been canceled since Tuesday's devastating earthquake.

France chairs the Paris Club, which in July agreed to cancel most of the debt owed by Haiti, the Western Hemisphere's poorest country.

In addition to France, the Paris Club includes the United States, Britain, Japan, Russia, Germany and 13 other countries.

On Thursday, French President Nicholas Sarkozy called for an international conference on rebuilding Haiti, a former French colony.

SNIP

A few generations hence, maybe we'll be in a similar squeeze with China, vis-a-vis our debt.

149 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:23:51pm

re: #147 Gus 802

Reading and listening is teh hard! /

Yeah, in no way did he say that the earthquake was caused by climate change. He does seems to free associate and there are a couple of unfinished phrases but it's there. Or not there in this case.

shoulda used the teleprompter...

150 spare o'lake  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:23:53pm

re: #138 Gus 802

Nice job.
Where did you get your training in cryptanalysis?

151 John Neverbend  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:23:57pm

re: #146 Shiplord Kirel

It's getting weirder. This is the current Drudge headline (linking to this Telegraph story):


Creative to say the least...

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

152 Buck  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:24:25pm

re: #115 SixDegrees

It's pure BS.

Well, it says the same thing your link says, only with more detail.

However, "US CODE: Title 31,714. Audit of Financial Institutions Examination Council, Federal Reserve Board, Federal reserve banks, Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, and Office of Comptroller of the Currency" is pure BS.... got it. Good to know.

153 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:24:36pm

re: #136 theliel

Other people who 'predicted' the housing bubble/economic collapse...
Calculated risk, barry ritholtz (the big picture), Tanta (RIP), prof. roubini(sp)...lots of people saw it coming.

the SEC, congress (let's repeal glass-stegal! that's a genious idea!), the fed and various other regulatory agencies all got together (at the urging of the executive and legislative branches) to let that clusterfuck happen.

That is a very partial and partisan summary. While those were factors, they were not the only or even the major factors. Nor did the various agencies collude to let this happen, rather, they failed to cooperate and coordinate which contributed to the disaster.

154 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:24:43pm

re: #147 Gus 802

Reading and listening is teh hard! /

Yeah, in no way did he say that the earthquake was caused by climate change. He does seems to free associate and there are a couple of unfinished phrases but it's there. Or not there in this case.

Drudge and the Telegraph go past even that far-fetched bit of creative interpretation and assert that Glover is claiming the earthquake as Gaia's revenge for the failure of the Copenhagen conference.

155 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:25:12pm

re: #150 spare o'lake

Nice job.
Where did you get your training in cryptanalysis?

While riding the bus and communicating with people that I could barely understand.

That's my take on it. Would be nice to see a clarification from Glover.

156 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:25:30pm

re: #152 Buck

Uh huh. Sure it does.

157 Silvergirl  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:26:23pm

re: #148 The Sanity Inspector

A few generations hence, maybe we'll be in a similar squeeze with China, vis-a-vis our debt.

I hope it won't take Haiti type devastation to bring that about. If somebody's canceling a debt we'd have to be in some hardship, true?

158 prairiefire  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:26:29pm

re: #153 Bagua

I was wondering where you were! Lizards are discussing financial policy.
Daughter is stamping her foot foot the computer. BBL

159 Girth  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:26:30pm

re: #147 Gus 802

Reading and listening is teh hard! /

Yeah, in no way did he say that the earthquake was caused by climate change. He does seems to free associate and there are a couple of unfinished phrases but it's there. Or not there in this case.

SOP for the nutters now.

1. Someone they don't like says something that can be interpreted in more than one way.

2. Take the worst possible interpretation of that statement and denounce it, even though it is nowhere near what the person said.

3. Profit.

Yes I know the left can and does engage in this as well, but this is all I see out of these people these days.

160 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:26:37pm

re: #146 Shiplord Kirel

It's getting weirder. This is the current Drudge headline (linking to this Telegraph story):

Creative to say the least...

Note that this is a blog story, not a Telegraph feature.

161 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:27:00pm

re: #154 Shiplord Kirel

Drudge and the Telegraph go past even that far-fetched bit of creative interpretation and assert that Glover is claiming the earthquake as Gaia's revenge for the failure of the Copenhagen conference.

Gaia did it! He didn't even mention Gaia.

Tim Blair has an agenda. Given that this is Danny Glover it's a perfect combination for the already outraged.

162 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:27:06pm

re: #135 wrenchwench

I think you meant to have another "g" in there.

:)


Its a Southern thing. /

164 theliel  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:29:38pm

re: #153 Bagua

That is a very partial and partisan summary. While those were factors, they were not the only or even the major factors. Nor did the various agencies collude to let this happen, rather, they failed to cooperate and coordinate which contributed to the disaster.

With out the repeal of the law preventing banks from operating in more than a regional capacity, and then the law preventing banks from being investment and lending banks at the same time we wouldn't have 'too big to fail'

Without the drive to 'deregulate' everything in sight CDS would have been treated as other insurance and required to have proper reserves.

Without the changes to leverage, accounting and reserve requirements we wouldn't have had the massive over leverage.


I'll have to dig for a bit (and it will take awhile, as i'm scheduled to go get beatup for 3 hours [black belt testing]) but when a republican conservative operative posts numerous public papers ESPOUSING EXACTLY THE DEREGULATION THAT OCCURED, and how to bring it about, and then the various agencies go ahead and DO EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO DO, you can't help but get pretty partisan about it.

165 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:29:43pm

re: #146 Shiplord Kirel

It's getting weirder. This is the current Drudge headline (linking to this Telegraph story):


Creative to say the least...

Gaia waxeth wroth.

166 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:30:01pm

re: #159 Girth

SOP for the nutters now.

1. Someone they don't like says something that can be interpreted in more than one way.

2. Take the worst possible interpretation of that statement and denounce it, even though it is nowhere near what the person said.

3. Profit.

Yes I know the left can and does engage in this as well, but this is all I see out of these people these days.

And #2 has to be done in 140 characters so it can be tweeted to all of one's fellow intelektualls.

167 theliel  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:30:03pm

re: #163 Lidane

I'm sooo sorry for the people that rep king represents...

168 Mad Al-Jaffee  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:30:46pm

My weekend begins now. LL (later lizards)

169 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:30:57pm

re: #147 Gus 802

Reading and listening is teh hard! /

Yeah, in no way did he say that the earthquake was caused by climate change. He does seems to free associate and there are a couple of unfinished phrases but it's there. Or not there in this case.

I still don't care what some cokehead entertainer says about anything important, neither to heed it nor to get angry about it.

170 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:31:40pm

re: #169 The Sanity Inspector

I still don't care what some cokehead entertainer says about anything important, neither to heed it nor to get angry about it.

ODS.

171 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:31:52pm

/

For the noobs.

172 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:31:58pm

re: #164 theliel

Best of luck on your black belt exam.

173 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:32:26pm

re: #154 Shiplord Kirel

Drudge and the Telegraph go past even that far-fetched bit of creative interpretation and assert that Glover is claiming the earthquake as Gaia's revenge for the failure of the Copenhagen conference.

That's the Tim Blair blog post I linked above. Blair isn't above distorting the truth to promote his anti-AGW crusade.

174 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:32:38pm

re: #169 The Sanity Inspector

I still don't care what some cokehead entertainer says about anything important, neither to heed it nor to get angry about it.

Yeah, I tell ya. What with Glover making his comments on Grit TV. How many people even watch or listen to Grit TV? I had to Google it this morning.

175 William of Orange  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:32:42pm

Only one response to this;

I'm getting too old for this shit...

176 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:33:05pm

re: #157 Silvergirl

I hope it won't take Haiti type devastation to bring that about. If somebody's canceling a debt we'd have to be in some hardship, true?

I mean I hope our unfathomable debt doesn't reduce our descendants to beggary, at the mercy of the Great Powers, as happened to Haiti.

177 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:33:17pm

re: #169 The Sanity Inspector

I still don't care what some cokehead entertainer says about anything important, neither to heed it nor to get angry about it.

and me as well....nonsense, who gives a shit...the Cowboys play Sunday

178 oneisnotprime  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:33:20pm

Charles, your interpretation doesn't work. The quote is ambiguous and Tim Blair's interpretation may be wrong, but 'this' in 'this is the response' clearly refers to the earthquake and not the international relief.

If we substitute "the international relief" into Danny Glover's sentence, it reads: "when we did what we did at the climate summit, in Copenhagen, the international relief is the response, this is what happens, you know what I’m sayin’? That['s why] we have to act now."

Doesn't make sense--why do we have to act now. On the other hand, substituting "the earthquake" makes perfect sense in context:

"when we did what we did at the climate summit, in Copenhagen, the earthquake is the response, this is what happens, you know what I’m sayin’? That['s why] we have to act now."

179 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:33:31pm

re: #88 Bagua

Exactly, with the Americans, English and Germans also taking turn looting Haiti’s little wealth and resources.

Why is the Dominican Republic relatively prosperous? They're on the same island.

180 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:33:53pm

re: #153 Bagua

That is a very partial and partisan summary. While those were factors, they were not the only or even the major factors. Nor did the various agencies collude to let this happen, rather, they failed to cooperate and coordinate which contributed to the disaster.

Agree. I'll also add another factor that's often overlooked: widespread economic naivete. The nation has an entire generation that has never, ever seen an economic downturn of any significance, who were blinkered into thinking that the Good Times not only wouldn't end, but wouldn't even slow down.

When a 25 year old recent graduate at our office mentioned that she and her husband were on their third real estate flip in less than three years, and held a mortgage on a house worth ten times their combined annual salary they had acquired with no money down and were "paying" less than the ever-accruing interest payments on the debt, I was horrified beyond belief. And there were several others in a similar situation, all thinking that, well, if they needed more money all they had to do was flip their house again and use the proceeds to pay off the existing mortgage and the excess to pay down their ballooning credit card balances. These are people who felt they were entitled, at the very beginning of their careers, to more house and more material possessions than their parents had amassed during an entire lifetime of savings and acquisitions.

That was roughly in 2005-2006. About the same time, on hearing that this was widespread, I started building up the cash in my long-term savings, figuring the end was nigh. I wish I had started a couple of years earlier.

181 robdouth  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:34:07pm

re: #126 ArchangelMichael

Then you are a genius because you knew before anyone was publicly saying it. Congratulations i guess.

182 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:34:47pm

re: #179 Alouette

Why is the Dominican Republic relatively prosperous? They're on the same island.

condoms?

183 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:35:14pm

re: #164 theliel

Again, partial and partisan. Regulation was a greater contributor than de-regulation, nor is either US political party uniquely to blame. The regulations were actually international.

Surely the influences you mentioned were contributing factors, but not the most significant nor the primary.

But don't let me stop you from packaging the whole thing so as to blame the Republicans, this is a familiar ruse.

184 wee fury  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:35:51pm

I like the 'Lizard Annex' at True/Slant, Charles.

185 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:36:21pm

re: #179 Alouette

Why is the Dominican Republic relatively prosperous? They're on the same island.

Political stability has everything to do with prosperity. Haiti hasn't had any for a while.

186 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:36:37pm

We're fucking surrounded by dumb-asses!

187 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:36:50pm

re: #179 Alouette

They haven't gone through the same political instability and corrupt-o-crats that Haiti had.

188 Jack Burton  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:36:55pm

re: #181 robdouth

Then you are a genius because you knew before anyone was publicly saying it. Congratulations i guess.

No I just wasn't lying to people too busy to pay attention in an attempt to make a buck.

189 darthstar  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:37:00pm

re: #132 John Neverbend

Anne Coulter. You get to read the book to her.

Ann Coulter's pisses me off because she claims to have seen the Grateful Dead 65 times...and that just harshes my mellow.

190 Gang of One  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:37:26pm

re: #186 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We're fucking surrounded by dumb-asses!

The poor bastards!

191 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:37:40pm

re: #179 Alouette

Why is the Dominican Republic relatively prosperous? They're on the same island.

relatively... the DR is still pretty darn poor buy most standards.

192 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:37:41pm

re: #189 darthstar

Ann Coulter's pisses me off because she claims to have seen the Grateful Dead 65 times...and that just harshes my mellow.

65 means 20, as you probably know.

193 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:38:01pm

re: #179 Alouette

Why is the Dominican Republic relatively prosperous? They're on the same island.

Hard to say. Their history has been at least as tumultuous as Haiti's.

194 wee fury  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:38:04pm

re: #189 darthstar

Ann Coulter's pisses me off because she claims to have seen the Grateful Dead 65 times...and that just harshes my mellow.

Maybe she isn't referring to the Band.

195 darthstar  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:38:09pm

re: #189 darthstar

Ann Coulter's Ann Coulter pisses me off because she claims to have seen the Grateful Dead 65 times...and that just harshes my mellow.

WTF? I blame her for that mistake as well.

196 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:38:17pm

re: #179 Alouette

Why is the Dominican Republic relatively prosperous? They're on the same island.

This guy has an explanation on why Haiti is so poor. Note it was written quite some time ago... but it has some insight.

197 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:39:18pm

re: #190 Gang of One

The poor bastards!

I used to think I was their king. Anymore? Not so much.

198 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:39:27pm

re: #187 lawhawk

They haven't gone through the same political instability and corrupt-o-crats that Haiti had.

So how is that the fault of the U.S. and other western nations? And hasn't the U.S. and other western nations at various times, supported some Haitian dictators? So the U.S. is at fault for not supporting Haiti, and at fault for supporting Haiti?

199 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:40:00pm

re: #192 Ben Hur

65 means 20, as you probably know.

I've seen little Feat well over a hundred times...it can jappen....Grateful Dead about six times I think....five times too many...very mundane live act

200 darthstar  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:40:07pm

re: #192 Ben Hur

65 means 20, as you probably know.

Good point. She's just so vile a person I can't imagine her being a positive element at a show.

Speaking of wackos, it appears Cheech & Chong want to get together with Palin

201 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:40:41pm

re: #199 albusteve

I've seen little Feat well over a hundred times...it can jappen...Grateful Dead about six times I think...five times too many...very mundane live act

You just weren't high enough, man.

202 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:40:49pm

re: #184 wee fury

I like the 'Lizard Annex' at True/Slant, Charles.

Thanks for the tip! I didn't know the Annex was open!

203 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:41:01pm
204 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:41:03pm

re: #200 darthstar

Good point. She's just so vile a person I can't imagine her being a positive element at a show.

Speaking of wackos, it appears Cheech & Chong want to get together with Palin

wow....that's harsh

205 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:41:27pm

re: #180 SixDegrees

It's a common temptation, to act as though the current trend is going to go on forever. Congrats to you on seeing the storm coming.

206 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:41:33pm

re: #185 wrenchwench

Political stability has everything to do with prosperity. Haiti hasn't had any for a while.

They had plenty of stability under Papa Doc and Baby Doc Duvalier. The kind that makes sick-fuck CEOs who like their sweatshop workers illiterate and half-starved cream their jeans. And guess who was the Duvaliers' best friend? US.

207 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:41:39pm

re: #200 darthstar

I saw that.

Something tells me Sarah has smoked.

208 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:41:45pm

re: #203 Ben Hur

Hello.

Someone has walleye vision....

209 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:41:56pm

re: #196 MrSilverDragon

This guy has an explanation on why Haiti is so poor. Note it was written quite some time ago... but it has some insight.

Thanks for the link. Bookmarked for later reading.

210 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:42:09pm

re: #198 Alouette

So how is that the fault of the U.S. and other western nations? And hasn't the U.S. and other western nations at various times, supported some Haitian dictators? So the U.S. is at fault for not supporting Haiti, and at fault for supporting Haiti?

Everything is the fault of the US. Well, everything bad.

And don't forget - people with dark skins are completely incapable of doing anything for themselves. The only way anything will ever get accomplished in Haiti and other areas densely populated with such people is if white folks come in and do it.

/ (Massive, dripping)

211 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:42:39pm

re: #205 The Sanity Inspector

Smart as hell. Ain't he?

212 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:42:43pm

re: #179 Alouette

Why is the Dominican Republic relatively prosperous? They're on the same island.

They were not a French colony, they did not revolt and defeat the French until later and had British help when they did at which point they returned to Spanish rule, they are not predominantly Black, they were not boycotted, they have a larger land mass, thriving tourism, the list goes on and on.

Same island, but apples and oranges.

213 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:42:48pm

re: #207 Ben Hur

I saw that.

Something tells me Sarah has smoked.

/but she didn't inhale :)

214 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:43:30pm

re: #210 SixDegrees

/ (Massive, dripping)

...I resist "going there"...

215 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:44:06pm

Good Afternoon Lizards! It's the weekend! (I've been working for it)
Hey Sean Penn! The world awaits you weighing in on Haiti....

216 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:44:10pm

re: #196 MrSilverDragon

This guy has an explanation on why Haiti is so poor. Note it was written quite some time ago... but it has some insight.

I'd go along with many of those reasons except the overpopulation one. Hong Kong and the Netherlands are tiny and populous too, but their big populations are national assets.

217 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:44:36pm

re: #205 The Sanity Inspector

It's a common temptation, to act as though the current trend is going to go on forever. Congrats to you on seeing the storm coming.


[Video]

The problem, I think, is that these twenty-somethings had never seen a recession, or even a rough patch, in their entire lives. It wasn't so much a matter of following the current trend as not even recognizing that there might possibly be another trend at all.

218 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:44:38pm

re: #210 SixDegrees

Everything is the fault of the US. Well, everything bad.

And don't forget - people with dark skins are completely incapable of doing anything for themselves. The only way anything will ever get accomplished in Haiti and other areas densely populated with such people is if white folks come in and do it.

/ (Massive, dripping)

You're being sarcastic but I think that attitude, is what's hurting places like Haiti and areas of Africa.

Paternal racism and meddling.

219 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:44:49pm

re: #214 MrSilverDragon

...I resist "going there"...

hey I got the corner on the penicillin jokes...

220 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:45:58pm

re: #206 Cato the Elder

They had plenty of stability under Papa Doc and Baby Doc Duvalier. The kind that makes sick-fuck CEOs who like their sweatshop workers illiterate and half-starved cream their jeans. And guess who was the Duvaliers' best friend? US.

OK, stability without massive corruption aided by profiteering abusers.

Better?

221 Haole  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:47:15pm

Tongueknots

222 William of Orange  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:47:20pm

Due to his clumsiness he gave the conservative wing a stick to hit him with.

In any case, this will pass into the distance pretty quick. Sure, Glover is a high profile actor but not a politician. And the right has higher targets on the list. And those targets need to be aware at what they are saying. Every loophole there is will be exploited and exaggerated.

223 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:47:38pm

re: #218 Ben Hur

You're being sarcastic but I think that attitude, is what's hurting places like Haiti and areas of Africa.

Paternal racism and meddling.

Meddling? As in, when Aristide raised the minimum wage from zip to $2.40 a day, a few well-placed calls were made and USAid suddenly pulls out of Haiti? Until Aristide is gone and Wal-Mart is again buying labor for $0.12 a fucking hour?

That the kind of meddling you're talking about?

224 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:48:14pm

re: #199 albusteve

I've seen little Feat well over a hundred times...it can jappen...Grateful Dead about six times I think...five times too many...very mundane live act

Answer: "Gee, this band is boring!"
Questions: "What does the Grateful Dead fan say after his buzz wears off?"

225 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:48:47pm

re: #223 Cato the Elder

Meddling? As in, when Aristide raised the minimum wage from zip to $2.40 a day, a few well-placed calls were made and USAid suddenly pulls out of Haiti? Until Aristide is gone and Wal-Mart is again buying labor for $0.12 a fucking hour?

That the kind of meddling you're talking about?

I meant in Africa.

I know shite about Haitian history.

226 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:49:18pm

I just had a bad thought... was the island that Haiti is on originally formed by a volcano?

227 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:49:20pm

re: #223 Cato the Elder

Meddling? As in, when Aristide raised the minimum wage from zip to $2.40 a day, a few well-placed calls were made and USAid suddenly pulls out of Haiti? Until Aristide is gone and Wal-Mart is again buying labor for $0.12 a fucking hour?

That the kind of meddling you're talking about?

And that could be the type of meddling I'm talking about.

228 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:50:08pm

re: #218 Ben Hur

You're being sarcastic but I think that attitude, is what's hurting places like Haiti and areas of Africa.

Paternal racism and meddling.

The UN has been "running" Haiti for the last several years, in their usual fashion of dribbling out handouts in the most inefficient possible way, without any sort of plan for the future and without encouraging Haitians to do better.

Micro-lenders have been active just recently, and that sort of activity might actually lead to some good, but I've heard that the UN was throwing up roadblocks to such endeavors, insisting that those lenders go through the UN's byzantine labyrinth of bureaucracy and driving overhead costs so high that the effort was no longer worthwhile.

229 John Neverbend  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:50:48pm

re: #179 Alouette

Why is the Dominican Republic relatively prosperous? They're on the same island.

Cigars?

230 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:50:51pm

Think Pat Robertson just called Danny and welcomed him to the party?

231 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:50:53pm

re: #224 The Sanity Inspector

Answer: "Gee, this band is boring!"
Questions: "What does the Grateful Dead fan say after his buzz wears off?"

they can play out of tune, out of sync, out of energy, terrible harmonies, wander around with directionless jamming, and their fans consider it an awesome show....give me a break

232 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:51:04pm

re: #225 Ben Hur

I meant in Africa.

I know shite about Haitian history.

Haitian history is an extension of African history, except the slaves have only half an island and nowhere to run.

233 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:51:28pm

re: #229 John Neverbend

Sammy Sosa?

234 badger1970  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:51:31pm

re: #224 The Sanity Inspector

Answer: "Gee, this band is boring!"
Questions: "What does the Grateful Dead fan say after his buzz wears off?"

235 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:52:28pm

re: #231 albusteve

they can play out of tune, out of sync, out of energy, terrible harmonies, wander around with directionless jamming, and their fans consider it an awesome show...give me a break

Well, the last time I went to a Dead show, it wasn't to see the band... they just happened to be there.

...at least, I think they were...

236 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:52:34pm

Sorry about the down dinging. I rarely do.

But the Dead is/was not some average band with a cult following (as my older bro used to say).

And what isn't better when you're high, dammit!

237 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:52:34pm

re: #210 SixDegrees

Everything is the fault of the US. Well, everything bad.

And don't forget - people with dark skins are completely incapable of doing anything for themselves. The only way anything will ever get accomplished in Haiti and other areas densely populated with such people is if white folks come in and do it.

/ (Massive, dripping)


In the case of Haiti, the US directly contributed to the suffering and actively exploited the Island and its population for over 200 years. Yes, the US, bears direct blame for the suffering in Haiti.

Learn a little history before you repeat this uninformed opinion a third time.

238 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:53:06pm

Haiti never had any significant mixed agriculture or tourism industry...got to have one or the other or both

239 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:53:46pm

Addendum.

Another thing Glover might have been saying was that the failure to come to an agreement at COP15 to respond immediately to the threat of AGW is similar to having system (of what he calls new internationalism) to respond immediately to Haiti. Or that our failure to globally address AGW is equal to our failure to address Haiti.

My interpretation of his words not mine.

240 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:54:31pm

re: #237 Bagua

I've learned plenty of history. That's what my statement is based on.

241 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:56:13pm

re: #239 Gus 802

Addendum.

Another thing Glover might have been saying was that the failure to come to an agreement at COP15 to respond immediately to the threat of AGW is similar to having system (of what he calls new internationalism) to respond immediately to Haiti. Or that our failure to globally address AGW is equal to our failure to address Haiti.

My interpretation of his words not mine.

could be a sweepstakes... "what did Glover mean ?"

242 Soap_Man  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:56:13pm

re: #191 brookly red

relatively... the DR is still pretty darn poor buy most standards.

Exactly. I've keep hearing the word "prosperous" thrown around when people talk about Haiti v. Dominican Republican. If it is "prosperous," then how come in every interview with a Dominican MLB ballplayer he talks about how he learned how to hit by swinging a broomstick/branch at rocks/bottlecaps?

243 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:56:28pm

re: #236 Ben Hur

Sorry about the down dinging. I rarely do.

But the Dead is/was not some average band with a cult following (as my older bro used to say).

And what isn't better when you're high, dammit!

No offense taken.

Matter of fact, let me post once again this Jerry Garcia tribute I put together a couple of years ago.

That said, I tend to file the Dead under "Music that's more fun to read about than listen to".

244 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:56:37pm

re: #173 Charles

That's the Tim Blair blog post I linked above. Blair isn't above distorting the truth to promote his anti-AGW crusade.

I should have paid more attention. Senior moment; or maybe I'm coming unglued at the realization that most if not all of my former political cohorts are batshit crazy.

Incidentally, even if Glover had blamed AGW for the quake (and he obviously didn't), that would be a far more rational hypothesis than Pat Robertson's claim of a 200 year old pact with the devil.

245 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:56:55pm

re: #239 Gus 802

Addendum.

Another thing Glover might have been saying was that the failure to come to an agreement at COP15 to respond immediately to the threat of AGW is similar to having system (of what he calls new internationalism) to respond immediately to Haiti. Or that our failure to globally address AGW is equal to our failure to address Haiti.

My interpretation of his words not mine.

This is getting funny. (not a jibe at you).

It's like when the BBC interviews some simple uneducated peasant in some dirt poor country and then uses the highest form of English in the translation.

246 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:56:59pm

re: #241 brookly red

could be a sweepstakes... "what did Glover mean ?"

Right. I have this urge to call him.

"Yeah, Danny. OK, could you please clarify what you said?"

247 Obdicut  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:57:37pm

re: #246 Gus 802

I think his honest answer would be "no".

248 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:57:44pm

re: #242 Soap_Man

Exactly. I've keep hearing the word "prosperous" thrown around when people talk about Haiti v. Dominican Republican. If it is "prosperous," then how come in every interview with a Dominican MLB ballplayer he talks about how he learned how to hit by swinging a broomstick/branch at rocks/bottlecaps?

the gf is from the DR... plenty of people there still haul water from the village pump.

249 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:57:48pm

re: #243 The Sanity Inspector

"Music that's more fun to read about than listen to".

I'm stealing that.

250 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:58:49pm

re: #243 The Sanity Inspector

No offense taken.

Matter of fact, let me post once again this Jerry Garcia tribute I put together a couple of years ago.


[Video]That said, I tend to file the Dead under "Music that's more fun to read about than listen to".

they did a few good records...Terrapin Station, Europe 72, and of course American Beauty is a classic that I still listen to

251 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:58:56pm

re: #236 Ben Hur

OUCH!

252 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:59:15pm

Danny Glover.

More profound then the Quran.

253 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:59:16pm

re: #198 Alouette

So how is that the fault of the U.S. and other western nations? And hasn't the U.S. and other western nations at various times, supported some Haitian dictators? So the U.S. is at fault for not supporting Haiti, and at fault for supporting Haiti?

Over 200 years of persecution, looting, exploitation, invasion, occupation and blacklisting. And never mind the fact that it was the American 20 year occupation that destroyed their constitutional system and created the army which took over after the US left and led to dictatorships that were likewise supported by the US.

Not to mention abducting the slaves and placing them on an Island that has limited resources, and the horrors of their treatment prior to the revolt.

Haiti is not in Africa, the Haitian are not indigenous, and the influence of America and other European nations has been vile and abusive up until recent times.

That does not mean the US is responsible for all problems world wide, but in Haiti, the US responsibily is direct and significant.

254 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:59:37pm

re: #246 Gus 802

Right. I have this urge to call him.

"Yeah, Danny. OK, could you please clarify what you said?"

man, you are definitely hooked

255 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:59:38pm

re: #252 Ben Hur

Danny Glover.

More profound then the Quran.

and much much safer...

256 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:59:43pm

re: #245 Ben Hur

This is getting funny. (not a jibe at you).

It's like when the BBC interviews some simple uneducated peasant in some dirt poor country and then uses the highest form of English in the translation.

Monty Pythons sketch in the works! /

257 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:00:22pm

re: #240 SixDegrees

I've learned plenty of history. That's what my statement is based on.

Your repeated statement is based upon ignorance and sarcasm, not history.

258 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:00:24pm

re: #248 brookly red

the gf is from the DR... plenty of people there still haul water from the village pump.

And there are plenty of peasants still carrying firewood on their heads in Europe.

259 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:00:49pm

re: #252 Ben Hur

I flippin' love it when you're here.

260 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:00:52pm

re: #253 Bagua

Over 200 years of persecution, looting, exploitation, invasion, occupation and blacklisting. And never mind the fact that it was the American 20 year occupation that destroyed their constitutional system and created the army which took over after the US left and led to dictatorships that were likewise supported by the US.

Not to mention abducting the slaves and placing them on an Island that has limited resources, and the horrors of their treatment prior to the revolt.

Haiti is not in Africa, the Haitian are not indigenous, and the influence of America and other European nations has been vile and abusive up until recent times.

That does not mean the US is responsible for all problems world wide, but in Haiti, the US responsibily is direct and significant.

and the speak FRENCH!

261 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:01:31pm

I said it awhile ago when it 1st came up, and the more I read/ hear his statement i really think his Copenhagen/ Haiti Earthquake connection is this

In that there was no real agrrement in Copenhagen the 3rd world nations are not yet getting money they could use for monitoring and emergency response for natural disasters. I think he's projecting that years from now if/when a GW caused disaster happens the aftermath will be better set instead of scrambling for money now

262 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:01:36pm

re: #257 Bagua

Your repeated statement is based upon ignorance and sarcasm, not history.

No, it's rooted firmly in history.

And as far as it being sarcasm - that's what the sarcasm slash and the additional notice drawn to it was for.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

263 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:01:50pm

re: #258 Ben Hur

And there are plenty of peasants still carrying firewood on their heads in Europe.

I have to drive a 05 Jetta as my second car....it's humiliating

264 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:01:51pm

re: #259 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I flippin' love it when you're here.

I just felt a disturbance in the Internet.

As if 1000s of Lizards said "WTF?!?" all at once.

265 Bob Levin  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:02:24pm

Kudos to Charles for trying to make sense of Glover's statement. On the other hand, those that are pretending that any of it made sense just to raise outrage...the tragicomedy continues.

266 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:02:46pm

re: #256 Gus 802

Monty Pythons sketch in the works! /

LOL.

It's actually true though. The BBC tends to do that.

267 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:03:00pm

re: #242 Soap_Man

Exactly. I've keep hearing the word "prosperous" thrown around when people talk about Haiti v. Dominican Republican. If it is "prosperous," then how come in every interview with a Dominican MLB ballplayer he talks about how he learned how to hit by swinging a broomstick/branch at rocks/bottlecaps?

Exactly, they are only "prosperous" by comparison to the Haitians. They have much poverty and the Haitians and other dark skinned living in DR are subject to discrimination and greater poverty. Still, it is a paradise compared with Haiti.

268 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:03:20pm

re: #263 albusteve

I have to drive a 05 Jetta as my second car...it's humiliating

/you have to drive your own car? ewww

269 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:03:49pm

re: #268 brookly red

/you have to drive your own car? ewww

yes, I prefer to....my laundry girls allow it

270 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:04:35pm

re: #266 Ben Hur

LOL.

It's actually true though. The BBC tends to do that.

"Here to translate Mr. Glover's comments is linguistic cartographer, Robert Jones from the Royal Institute of Language."

/

271 darthstar  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:05:06pm

re: #224 The Sanity Inspector

Answer: "Gee, this band is boring!"
Questions: "What does the Grateful Dead fan say after his buzz wears off?"

Updinged your bad (old) joke to off-set the neg you got.

I've been to a few shows where I thought, "Oh, crap, it's Saturday. If they finish with 'One More Saturday Night' I'm not staying for the encore."....they did, and I didn't. And once I was at a show where Jerry was playing phenomenally, but his voice was in the toilet, and I said to the people next to me, "Man, Jerry's playing beautifully, but he couldn't sing his way out of a wet paper bag tonight if he wanted to" and the response wasn't exactly understanding.

272 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:05:11pm

re: #262 SixDegrees

No, it's rooted firmly in history.

And as far as it being sarcasm - that's what the sarcasm slash and the additional notice drawn to it was for.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

You say that, yet your snark does not apply to Haiti. I agree with that opinion in general, but not when there is clear and undeniable US responsibility over the entire history of Haiti as a state.

You are making a political statement, not an accurate historical representation. Please learn the history of Haiti.

273 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:05:50pm

USS Carl Vinson Arrives in Haiti to Support Humanitarian Operations
Posted On: Jan 15 2010 9:46AM

By Mass Communication Specialist 1st Class Jason Thompson, USS Carl Vinson Public Affairs

USS CARL VINSON, At sea (NNS) -- The Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) arrived off the coast of Port-Au-Prince, Haiti Jan. 15 to commence humanitarian assistance and disaster relief operations...

274 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:05:53pm

re: #253 Bagua

That does not mean the US is responsible for all problems world wide, but in Haiti, the US responsibily is direct and significant.

And everyone who saw "Quantum of Solace" knows it, too.

275 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:05:57pm

re: #271 darthstar

Updinged your bad (old) joke to off-set the neg you got.

I've been to a few shows where I thought, "Oh, crap, it's Saturday. If they finish with 'One More Saturday Night' I'm not staying for the encore."...they did, and I didn't. And once I was at a show where Jerry was playing phenomenally, but his voice was in the toilet, and I said to the people next to me, "Man, Jerry's playing beautifully, but he couldn't sing his way out of a wet paper bag tonight if he wanted to" and the response wasn't exactly understanding.

Sounds like most of the 90s.

276 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:07:15pm

re: #272 Bagua

You say that, yet your snark does not apply to Haiti. I agree with that opinion in general, but not when there is clear and undeniable US responsibility over the entire history of Haiti as a state.

You are making a political statement, not an accurate historical representation. Please learn the history of Haiti.

It absolutely applies to Haiti.

Except I'm not wallowing in the inaccessible past.

277 darthstar  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:07:46pm

re: #275 Ben Hur

Sounds like most of the 90s.

True, true...my other favorite thing to say is "What lyrics will Bobby forget tonight?" I mean, I love the boys, but singing along with Bobby's tough sometimes.

278 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:08:23pm

re: #273 Gus 802

USS Carl Vinson Arrives in Haiti to Support Humanitarian Operations
Posted On: Jan 15 2010 9:46AM

hmmmm, might just help convince some people that we actually do need a military...

279 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:09:39pm

re: #277 darthstar

True, true...my other favorite thing to say is "What lyrics will Bobby forget tonight?" I mean, I love the boys, but singing along with Bobby's tough sometimes.

One of ours was, "Uh oh. Bob's going all "Rock Star" again."

LOL!

280 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:09:44pm

I never once saw Little Feat put on a marginal show, not anywhere at any venue...by far most shows are extremely good and many are just phenomenal, mind boggling....they are very tight and fanatic about quality, and they can flat out play...very eclectic so their set lists always vary quite a bit

281 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:11:33pm

re: #278 brookly red

hmmm, might just help convince some people that we actually do need a military...

They are almost perfectly designed for responding to natural disasters such as this.

282 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:11:39pm

re: #278 brookly red

We should send an aircraft carrier. Fence off the deck and put as many people on the deck as we can fit and get them out of danger.

How many people would fit on the deck of a carrier.

283 Buck  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:12:16pm

re: #273 Gus 802

USS Carl Vinson Arrives in Haiti to Support Humanitarian Operations
Posted On: Jan 15 2010 9:46AM

What kind of war mongering a** would send a war machine like that to place that obviously needs aid, not bunch of supersonic jets....

/another Just like Bush.....heh

284 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:12:19pm

re: #262 SixDegrees

And note, you will never see me here parroting the 'blame the US for all the worlds ills' line. This is clear case in which the US, and others, have clear responsibilty.

And as far as "except I'm not wallowing in the inaccessible past." We are not talking about something, like slavery that happened in the remote past, this is the entire history of Haiti, a continuous stream of bad influence from the US that continued up until recently, and continues now in part.

You can not crush a nation for 200 years, leave them destitute and ruined, loot their natural resources and destroy their government, set up the dictatorship to brutalize them, and then blithely say, 'well, they're on their own now, why don't they get it together.'

285 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:12:29pm

re: #278 brookly red

hmmm, might just help convince some people that we actually do need a military...

I said earlier this week that, if the day ever comes when the world doesn't require armies, we would still be beholden to build and maintain facilities like this, strictly for humanitarian reasons. The ability to float a small city's worth of high-end support, medical, communication and other forms of aid up to a coastline on a moment's notice is indispensable.

Although some posters here don't like to be reminded of this, and have actively attacked such aid, deriding it as yet more White Man's Oppression in action.

Go figure.

286 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:12:42pm

Holy Cow! I passed 15,000 updings!
*pulls 3x5 card from pocket*
I would like to thank Charles for a world class blog...
I would thank the lizards at LGF..
I have learned so much and enjoyed your company greatly..
I would like to thank all of us that stood with Charles during with the great flounce of 2009...I don't think anything has ever happened like that in the History of the Internet...During the fury...Everybody keep their head and stayed cool.
Give yourself a pat on the back..Charles has stood on his principles and fair treatment to wacky right wing behavior..
I stand by Charles
I'd like to thank all you lizards that take time out Sunday morning to stop and read the prayer list...There is always so much positive feedback...It's a great experience for me to see people get better...The lizard prayer list has made alot of difference in peoples lives here. ( There must be some super saint lizard in Tibet reading the prayer list that has God's cell phone..It's amazing)
in closing..
Thank you I am humbled...
* Now.. Are you guys ready for the after hours party?*

287 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:13:00pm

re: #282 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We should send an aircraft carrier. Fence off the deck and put as many people on the deck as we can fit and get them out of danger.

How many people would fit on the deck of a carrier?

I'm always forgetting the question mark. Why? I'll bet a psychiatrist could tell me something interesting about that.

288 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:13:07pm

re: #286 HoosierHoops

Not anymore.

289 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:13:28pm

re: #288 Ben Hur

Not anymore.

Kidding!

I'll reverse it.

290 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:13:49pm

re: #281 Gus 802

They are almost perfectly designed for responding to natural disasters such as this.

I would think the Iwo Jima class assult ships would be better, but hey this helps.

291 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:13:56pm

re: #288 Ben Hur

:)

292 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:13:57pm

re: #276 SixDegrees

It absolutely applies to Haiti.

Except I'm not wallowing in the inaccessible past.

Yep. Let's just forget about the Duvaliers and that little business with Aristide, and focus on the now.

Now: Wal-Mart runs the Haitian government.

Now: Those people who still have work and factories to go are lucky if they get paid $0.12 an hour. That works out to $38.40 a month.

Now: Anyone who doesn't like it can go live in a garbage dump, a fitting metaphor for what the rest of the world thinks of these people.

So yeah, fuck the past. Except they haven't forgotten.

293 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:14:10pm

re: #284 Bagua

Something which I've never said.

You're not ever going to change my mind.

294 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:14:52pm

re: #283 Buck

What kind of war mongering a** would send a war machine like that to place that obviously needs aid, not bunch of supersonic jets...

/another Just like Bush...heh

That sounds like something someone would say. Last I heard was that it arrived with a compliment of 19 helicopters. No Hornets or Prowlers.

295 Buck  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:15:05pm

re: #286 HoosierHoops

Holy Cow! I passed 15,000 updings!

I am tempted to downding you just out of jealousy.

296 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:15:36pm

re: #295 Buck

You have precisely 1,000.

But, not anymore.

297 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:15:43pm

Later.

Gonna light a Shabbat candle a little early today.

298 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:16:02pm

re: #282 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We should send an aircraft carrier. Fence off the deck and put as many people on the deck as we can fit and get them out of danger.

How many people would fit on the deck of a carrier.

About 40,000 if they were shoulder to shoulder and the rows were 18" apart. The deck is roughly five acres in area.

299 Buck  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:16:25pm

re: #294 Gus 802

That sounds like something someone would say. Last I heard was that it arrived with a compliment of 19 helicopters. No Hornets or Prowlers.

It was said when Bush 43 sent one to help the tsunami victims.

300 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:16:47pm

re: #293 SixDegrees

Something which I've never said.

You're not ever going to change my mind.

I can see that you are inflexible on this issue, if that's your attitude, then learning the actual history may not help. I prefer an open mind and the willingness to consider new information.

301 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:16:47pm

re: #290 brookly red

I would think the Iwo Jima class assult ships would be better, but hey this helps.

Large deck is great for air ops. Also it was already set to be underway for San Diego. The USS Bataan should be there pretty soon.

302 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:16:58pm

re: #286 HoosierHoops

Holy Cow! I passed 15,000 updings!
*pulls 3x5 card from pocket*
I would like to thank Charles for a world class blog...
I would thank the lizards at LGF..
I have learned so much and enjoyed your company greatly..
I would like to thank all of us that stood with Charles during with the great flounce of 2009...I don't think anything has ever happened like that in the History of the Internet...During the fury...Everybody keep their head and stayed cool.
Give yourself a pat on the back..Charles has stood on his principles and fair treatment to wacky right wing behavior..
I stand by Charles
I'd like to thank all you lizards that take time out Sunday morning to stop and read the prayer list...There is always so much positive feedback...It's a great experience for me to see people get better...The lizard prayer list has made alot of difference in peoples lives here. ( There must be some super saint lizard in Tibet reading the prayer list that has God's cell phone..It's amazing)
in closing..
Thank you I am humbled...
* Now.. Are you guys ready for the after hours party?*

please report for Carrousel...

303 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:17:16pm

re: #298 Shiplord Kirel

That's a lot of people. Logistics would suck, hard to feed them and all, but can't be worse than it is.

All women and children under 12?

304 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:17:20pm

re: #294 Gus 802

That sounds like something someone would say. Last I heard was that it arrived with a compliment of 19 helicopters. No Hornets or Prowlers.

Correct. They were stationed, I believe, off Virginia when the call came to deploy to Haiti, and they stopped in Florida along the way to load up on helicopters, along with other supplies.

305 darthstar  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:17:25pm

re: #280 albusteve

I never once saw Little Feat put on a marginal show, not anywhere at any venue...by far most shows are extremely good and many are just phenomenal, mind boggling...they are very tight and fanatic about quality, and they can flat out play...very eclectic so their set lists always vary quite a bit

My wife's a big fan of Little Feat. I always enjoy singing "...cuz there's a fat man, in the bathtub, with the blues..." when she doesn't join me in the shower fast enough in the mornings. It usually gets her to hop out of bed and skip into the bathroom.

306 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:18:02pm

re: #300 Bagua

You have no idea what you are seeing.

307 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:18:19pm

re: #305 darthstar

DAMMIT! WHEN ARE WE GOING TO TALK ABOUT BARRY MANILOW!?!?

308 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:18:31pm

re: #284 Bagua

. . .

You can not crush a nation for 200 years, leave them destitute and ruined, loot their natural resources and destroy their government, set up the dictatorship to brutalize them, and then blithely say, 'well, they're on their own now, why don't they get it together.'

Is that's what's happening? If so what's all this about?

309 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:18:58pm

re: #299 Buck

It was said when Bush 43 sent one to help the tsunami victims.

That figures. I try not to pay attention to that sort of thing. Some folks have militaryphobia. They're afraid of everything military.

310 darthstar  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:19:34pm

re: #302 brookly red

please report for Carrousel...

Renew! Renew!

311 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:19:37pm

re: #305 darthstar

My wife's a big fan of Little Feat. I always enjoy singing "...cuz there's a fat man, in the bathtub, with the blues..." when she doesn't join me in the shower fast enough in the mornings. It usually gets her to hop out of bed and skip into the bathroom.

after all these years, my favorite Feat song, hands down...they can really light it up with Fatman bigtime

312 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:19:48pm

re: #306 SixDegrees

You have no idea what you are seeing.

I read the same comment from you on two different thread, if it means something other than how it reads then please explain. Otherwise, I see what you wrote.

313 spare o'lake  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:19:54pm

re: #218 Ben Hur

You're being sarcastic but I think that attitude, is what's hurting places like Haiti and areas of Africa.

Paternal racism and meddling.

Get out of town!

314 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:19:55pm

re: #290 brookly red

I would think the Iwo Jima class assult ships would be better, but hey this helps.

The Marines are already en route with a large deck amphibious vessel. They may already be there.

315 Jack Burton  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:19:56pm

re: #302 brookly red

please report for Carrousel...

Capricorn 26, 1980, begin Carousel.

316 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:20:52pm

re: #311 albusteve

after all these years, my favorite Feat song, hands down...they can really light it up with Fatman bigtime

Do you remember Joel Scott Hill? Played with Canned Heat for a while..His Solo Albums were great

317 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:20:54pm

Marines Embark on Haiti Response Mission

By Army Sgt. 1st Class Michael J. Carden, American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON (NNS) -- About 2,000 North Carolina-based Marines are making final preparations Jan. 15 to embark to earthquake-ravaged Haiti Jan. 16 to provide disaster-relief efforts.

The 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) will bring a multi-mission capability to Haiti to provide disaster relief and, if necessary, security assistance, a spokesman for the unit said during a telephone news conference Jan. 15 from Camp Lejeune, N.C.

The Marines expect to provide direct support for the ongoing relief efforts there, although they haven't been given a specific mission yet. But they're well prepared for any number of challenges, said Marine Corps Capt. Clark Carpenter.
...
The force is deploying aboard three Navy ships – USS Bataan (LHD 5), USS Carter Hall (LSD 50) and USS Fort McHenry (LSD 43) – with CH-35 Chinook and UH-1 Huey helicopters. They're leaving their tanks and artillery equipment at home for this deployment, but will bring additional trucks and earth-moving equipment, the captain said.

Also, the 22nd MEU will deploy with additional French- and Creole-speaking interpreters, public affairs specialists and possibly more medical personnel and engineers from other Marine units. Carpenter praised the support the 22nd MEU has been given from fellow Marine units at Camp Lejeune and throughout the Marine Corps.
...

318 spare o'lake  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:21:14pm

re: #229 John Neverbend

Cigars?

Let's not bring Monica Lewinski into this.

319 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:21:15pm

re: #308 reine.de.tout

Is that's what's happening? If so what's all this about?

Too little, too late, and not one of the bad things we should be talking about instead. ///

320 The Sanity Inspector  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:21:33pm

Over 30 Companies Targeted In Chinese Attack

China is going to become the most powerful nation in the world. My advice: Do not create online accounts with Chinese companies.

321 darthstar  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:21:37pm

re: #307 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

DAMMIT! WHEN ARE WE GOING TO TALK ABOUT BARRY MANILOW!?!?

Never...not when he turns out crap like this

322 Stanghazi  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:21:55pm

re: #305 darthstar

My wife's a big fan of Little Feat. I always enjoy singing "...cuz there's a fat man, in the bathtub, with the blues..." when she doesn't join me in the shower fast enough in the mornings. It usually gets her to hop out of bed and skip into the bathroom.

Ahhhh, newlyweds!

323 Silvergirl  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:22:07pm

re: #317 Gus 802

Thanks for the spot of good news, Gus!

324 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:22:07pm

re: #312 Bagua

There's no point in reaching for the unreachable.

325 windsagio  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:22:13pm

re: #300 Bagua

Don't be too upset, they're just mad 'cuz you sound like one of those damn liberals ;)

Its pretty common to want to ignore that stuff yer talking about, unfortunately. Its just harder to take from you because you're generally pretty conservative.

326 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:22:17pm

re: #316 HoosierHoops

Do you remember Joel Scott Hill? Played with Canned Heat for a while..His Solo Albums were great

no, but Canned Heat has had like thirty payers through the years

327 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:22:20pm

re: #321 darthstar

Never...not when he turns out crap like this

Snapping fingers, singing along...

328 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:22:48pm

re: #324 SixDegrees

There's no point in reaching for the unreachable.

can I Dream The Impossible Dream!?!?!?!

329 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:22:53pm

re: #308 reine.de.tout

Is that's what's happening? If so what's all this about?

That is all very recent in the history of Haiti. There is some help being offered now, the point is, after centuries of uninterrupted oppression they are destroyed, a lost cause. Sending them band-aids and food now is great, but it is far too little far too late.

Also, the economic exploitation continues as pointed out by Cato.

330 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:22:58pm

re: #323 Silvergirl

Thanks for the spot of good news, Gus!

You're welcome. Nice to see that they remain focused on the mission.

331 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:23:09pm

re: #327 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Snapping fingers, singing along...

Ummm,,, thats not your finger !!
//

332 Silvergirl  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:23:31pm

re: #317 Gus 802

I like the article's ending:

Many of the Marines were on post-deployment leave when they were recalled, he noted, but they're eager to help in relieving the Haitian people's suffering.

"We did just get back a month ago, but the morale is off the charts here," he said. "We are absolutely ready to go. The images we've been seeing on the news, it's catastrophic, and it's very sad.

"Marines are definitely warriors first, and that is what the world knows the Marines for," he continued, "[But] we're equally as compassionate when we need to be, and this is a role that we'd like to show - that compassionate warrior, reaching out with a helping hand for those who need it. We are very excited about this."

333 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:25:28pm

re: #332 Silvergirl

I like the article's ending:

wait til they get there...they may need therapy after awhile

334 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:25:38pm

re: #324 SixDegrees

There's no point in reaching for the unreachable.

Yes, clearly you are determined to see everything from a very partisan viewpoint that ignores history.

335 windsagio  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:26:16pm

re: #333 albusteve

unfortunately yeah. You think Iraq was culture shock...

336 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:26:22pm

re: #328 sattv4u2

can I Dream The Impossible Dream!?!?!?!

Only if you're a baritone.

337 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:26:27pm

re: #329 Bagua

That is all very recent in the history of Haiti. There is some help being offered now, the point is, after centuries of uninterrupted oppression they are destroyed, a lost cause. Sending them band-aids and food now is great, but it is far too little far too late.

Also, the economic exploitation continues as pointed out by Cato.

OK.
This is recent, and going on now.
How would you propose to go back and re-do history? It seems to me logically, we can only proceed from the present forward, and aid seems to be being given.

At what point does the Haitian government begin to take on some level of resonsibility for what goes on there?

338 Soap_Man  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:26:48pm

Speaking of Haiti, Drudge just busted out the siren! Haven't seen that in awhile...

No story, just the headline "Obama administration to allow Haitians in US illegally to remain because of earthquake... "

OMFG!!!

/

339 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:26:50pm

re: #334 Bagua

Yes, clearly you are determined to see everything from a very partisan viewpoint that ignores history.

I think an even more interesting discussion would be about Haiti's prospects now, and how do they recover and move forward

340 Silvergirl  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:27:02pm

re: #333 albusteve

wait til they get there...they may need therapy after awhile

True, but helping people in a bad way like that does something for a person's heart. That in itself is often its own therapy.

341 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:27:43pm

re: #338 Soap_Man

Yeah. Let's send them back right now.
/

342 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:27:53pm

re: #329 Bagua

That is all very recent in the history of Haiti. There is some help being offered now, the point is, after centuries of uninterrupted oppression they are destroyed, a lost cause. Sending them band-aids and food now is great, but it is far too little far too late.

Also, the economic exploitation continues as pointed out by Cato.

if there is a sliver lining to this it is that the whole world is watching & it will be hard to get back to business as usual...

343 windsagio  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:27:57pm

re: #339 albusteve

That is an interesting disussion, especially with port-au-prince and all the beautiful historical buildings that were tourist draws annihilated.

They're gonna have nothing even after they recover.

344 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:28:00pm

re: #336 SixDegrees

Only if you're a baritone.

I actually played one (a baritone) in the band when I was a kid

(my arms were too short to reach 7th position on the trombone))

345 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:28:13pm

re: #339 albusteve

I think an even more interesting discussion would be about Haiti's prospects now, and how do they recover and move forward

Steve - agreed.
It simply is not possible to go back and re-do history.

The only thing that can be done is to give aid as we can now, and proceed forward.

346 Stanghazi  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:29:13pm

re: #329 Bagua

Bagua - sorry if its been asked already, but you know a lot about Haiti and I thank you for your insights. Did you study the island specifically? Are you from Florida?

347 windsagio  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:29:38pm

re: #345 reine.de.tout

err I think yo'ure missing an important point.

Its impossible to re-do history, but its unjust to simply ignore it.

If we've done a terrible wrong there, don't we have a responsibility to try to repair the damage we've done?

348 darthstar  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:29:42pm

re: #338 Soap_Man

Speaking of Haiti, Drudge just busted out the siren! Haven't seen that in awhile...

No story, just the headline "Obama administration to allow Haitians in US illegally to remain because of earthquake... "

OMFG!!!

/

Somebody needs to send Matt Drudge to Haiti, with Rush Limbaugh, Michele Malkin, and Pat Robertson. Just drop them in the center of Port au Prince and make those fuckers walk to the airport...then we can hear what they have to say about the situation.

349 Soap_Man  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:29:44pm

re: #341 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yeah. Let's send them back right now.
/

How dare that Obama fellow offer refuge!!!

///

350 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:30:13pm

re: #343 windsagio

That is an interesting disussion, especially with port-au-prince and all the beautiful historical buildings that were tourist draws annihilated.

They're gonna have nothing even after they recover.

my very first post about this concerned evacuation, and I stand by it...this is a dire situation and we need to remove as many women and children as best we can...a massive effort...what happens to Haiti is far in the future right now

351 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:30:14pm

re: #338 Soap_Man

Speaking of Haiti, Drudge just busted out the siren! Haven't seen that in awhile...

No story, just the headline "Obama administration to allow Haitians in US illegally to remain because of earthquake... "

OMFG!!!

/

I don't know what he's trying to prove. It's only temporary and the article states it as such. Wouldn't make any sense to be repatriating illegal immigrants to Haiti at this time.

352 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:30:30pm

re: #339 albusteve

I think an even more interesting discussion would be about Haiti's prospects now, and how do they recover and move forward

/casinos!

353 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:30:38pm

re: #332 Silvergirl

I like the article's ending:

Ever seen Anthony Bourdain's episode of No Reservations when they were trapped in Lebanon when war with Israel broke out? I think it won a few awards; Bourdain and his crew abandoned the episode, obviously, and were focused on getting out of the country, but they kept the cameras rolling and turned them around on themselves.

Bourdain, normally full of snark when it comes to the government, was practically in tears over how well they were treated by the Marines who finally transported them offshore, and had nothing but the highest praise for the way they treated everyone.

354 darthstar  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:30:43pm

re: #349 Soap_Man

How dare that Obama fellow offer refuge!!!

///

Even the French have suspended deporting Hatians.

355 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:30:44pm

re: #347 windsagio

err I think yo'ure missing an important point.

Its impossible to re-do history, but its unjust to simply ignore it.

If we've done a terrible wrong there, don't we have a responsibility to try to repair the damage we've done?

Well, we may have a responsibility.
Which is why, I believe, this exists.

Bagua says - too little, too late.
Perhaps.
I'm interested in knowing what his alternate proposal is.

356 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:31:06pm

re: #343 windsagio

OT ,and regarding last night ,,,

The 40 percent excise tax on what have come to be called "Cadillac" health-care plans

[Link: www.nypost.com...]

And here I hysterically speculated it to 5, 10, 25, 50%, asking what the rate would be for the rest of us to make up for union members that would be exempt from the tax

damn me!!

357 windsagio  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:31:18pm

re: #350 albusteve

I didn't see it, but I kinda agree... if people will leave of course.

Dire times lead to dire measures.

358 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:31:31pm

re: #337 reine.de.tout

OK.
This is recent, and going on now.
How would you propose to go back and re-do history? It seems to me logically, we can only proceed from the present forward, and aid seems to be being given.

At what point does the Haitian government begin to take on some level of resonsibility for what goes on there?

We don't re-do history of course. But what we can do is correct past deeds and take responsibility for them.

As far as the Haitian government, it was precisely the US which destroyed their constitutional system and supported the resulting dictatorships. This has left them in the pitiful state they are in.

On the other hand, countries like Japan and Germany who waged war on the US received massive aid in restoring their economies and governments. The Haitians, who did not wage war on the US, are left to rot and only get minimal assistance in the most dire of circumstances.

359 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:31:47pm

re: #349 Soap_Man

How dare that Obama fellow offer refuge!!!

///

/hope there ain't no disasters in Mexico

360 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:31:48pm

re: #338 Soap_Man

Speaking of Haiti, Drudge just busted out the siren! Haven't seen that in awhile...

No story, just the headline "Obama administration to allow Haitians in US illegally to remain because of earthquake...

By the way? How many people were re-patriated to Haiti within the last 6 months? Where would I look for that number?

361 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:32:46pm

re: #337 reine.de.tout

OK.
This is recent, and going on now.
How would you propose to go back and re-do history? It seems to me logically, we can only proceed from the present forward, and aid seems to be being given.

At what point does the Haitian government begin to take on some level of resonsibility for what goes on there?

To be fair, there really is no effective government in Haiti. It's been more or less run by the UN the last few years - badly, as one would expect from the UN.

But I wholly agree that whining about the past is pointless and counterproductive.

362 windsagio  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:33:08pm

re: #356 sattv4u2

Not gonna get into it more than this, but you'll have to do better than a rag like the NY Post. Whats next the Washington Times?

363 Silvergirl  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:33:12pm

re: #353 SixDegrees

Ever seen Anthony Bourdain's episode of No Reservations when they were trapped in Lebanon when war with Israel broke out? I think it won a few awards; Bourdain and his crew abandoned the episode, obviously, and were focused on getting out of the country, but they kept the cameras rolling and turned them around on themselves.

Bourdain, normally full of snark when it comes to the government, was practically in tears over how well they were treated by the Marines who finally transported them offshore, and had nothing but the highest praise for the way they treated everyone.

No. I'd like to see it. Yeah, some real life experience has a way of turning thinking around.

364 Soap_Man  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:33:15pm

re: #360 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

By the way? How many people were re-patriated to Haiti within the last 6 months? Where would I look for that number?

Oh God, I have no idea. That's a good question.

365 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:33:24pm

re: #358 Bagua

We don't re-do history of course. But what we can do is correct past deeds and take responsibility for them.

As far as the Haitian government, it was precisely the US which destroyed their constitutional system and supported the resulting dictatorships. This has left them in the pitiful state they are in.

On the other hand, countries like Japan and Germany who waged war on the US received massive aid in restoring their economies and governments. The Haitians, who did not wage war on the US, are left to rot and only get minimal assistance in the most dire of circumstances.


so - what would you propose we do, if this is too little too late?

366 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:33:36pm

re: #337 reine.de.tout

At what point does the Haitian government begin to take on some level of resonsibility for what goes on there?

Perhaps at the point where the people who run the Haitian government are actually Haitians living in Haiti?

367 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:33:52pm

re: #361 SixDegrees

To be fair, there really is no effective government in Haiti. It's been more or less run by the UN the last few years - badly, as one would expect from the UN.

But I wholly agree that whining about the past is pointless and counterproductive.

/I see this as a great opportunity to move the UN to Haiti...

368 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:33:58pm

re: #339 albusteve

I think an even more interesting discussion would be about Haiti's prospects now, and how do they recover and move forward

Agreed. But unless we understand America's direct responsibility, there will not be the momentum to do what is really necessary, rather, we will just assist with this emergency and go back to ignoring them, no different then a disaster anywhere in the world, (and in places where there is no American responsibility.)

369 darthstar  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:34:26pm

re: #352 brookly red

/casinos!

You snark, but Haiti is in a beautiful location, with considerable low lands and mountains alike. Western development would be a start to helping them recover. God knows the entire city of Port au Prince is already demoed, so encourging resorts to build (a good way would be to offer tax incentives for development, so long as they also build affordable housing in addition to their casino resorts--jobs & homes, jobs & homes).

370 windsagio  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:34:33pm

re: #355 reine.de.tout

Theres been alot of discussion on just that subject, and he's made his suggestoins pretty clear. Did you just miss 'em?

371 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:34:33pm

re: #366 Cato the Elder

Perhaps at the point where the people who run the Haitian government are actually Haitians living in Haiti?

The people running the gov't there aren't Haitians?
Who are they?

372 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:35:01pm

re: #362 windsagio

Not gonna get into it more than this, but you'll have to do better than a rag like the NY Post. Whats next the Washington Times?

There ya go,, shoot the messenger!

Cool!

373 spare o'lake  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:35:04pm

re: #349 Soap_Man

How dare that Obama fellow offer refuge!!!

///

No fair - I thought only illegal Latinos were allowed to stay!
/

374 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:35:05pm

re: #362 windsagio

Not gonna get into it more than this, but you'll have to do better than a rag like the NY Post. Whats next the Washington Times?

got a problem with the free press?

375 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:35:11pm

re: #370 windsagio

Theres been alot of discussion on just that subject, and he's made his suggestoins pretty clear. Did you just miss 'em?

Um
are you suggesting I should just STFU?
am I not allowed?

376 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:35:19pm

re: #359 brookly red

/hope there ain't no disasters in Mexico

there is, the narco wars...it could force the Mexican govt to the very brink of collapse...then you'll see an entire country looted and refugees will pour over the border in massive numbers...don't think it can't happen

377 Silvergirl  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:35:52pm

re: #338 Soap_Man

Speaking of Haiti, Drudge just busted out the siren! Haven't seen that in awhile...

No story, just the headline "Obama administration to allow Haitians in US illegally to remain because of earthquake... "

OMFG!!!

/

Maybe he could replace the siren with an uplifted torch and the words

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

378 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:36:19pm

re: #362 windsagio

re: #372 sattv4u2

There ya go,, shoot the messenger!

Cool!

here ,, take a few more

[Link: news.google.com...]

379 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:36:50pm

re: #374 brookly red

got a problem with the "RIGHT" free press?

ftfy

380 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:37:07pm

re: #369 darthstar

You snark, but Haiti is in a beautiful location, with considerable low lands and mountains alike. Western development would be a start to helping them recover. God knows the entire city of Port au Prince is already demoed, so encourging resorts to build (a good way would be to offer tax incentives for development, so long as they also build affordable housing in addition to their casino resorts--jobs & homes, jobs & homes).

wouldn't be great if they found oil there...

381 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:38:33pm

re: #376 albusteve

there is, the narco wars...it could force the Mexican govt to the very brink of collapse...then you'll see an entire country looted and refugees will pour over the border in massive numbers...don't think it can't happen

can't happen? we are watching it happen in slow motion.

382 spare o'lake  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:38:41pm

re: #368 Bagua

Agreed. But unless we understand America's direct responsibility, there will not be the momentum to do what is really necessary, rather, we will just assist with this emergency and go back to ignoring them, no different then a disaster anywhere in the world, (and in places where there is no American responsibility.)

How about we just help the poor fuckers get through this disaster before we start with the historical guilt trips?

383 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:39:21pm

re: #202 wrenchwench

Thanks for the tip! I didn't know the Annex was open!

Yea, I'm just getting started with it -- they've had a few software glitches recently, and I'm still getting used to their Wordpress interface. I'll have a post about it, probably over the weekend.

384 TampaKnight  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:39:26pm

re: #381 brookly red

can't happen? we are watching it happen in slow motion.

The CIA listed Mexico as #2 on their list of states in danger of collapsing last year, I believe.

385 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:39:26pm

re: #381 brookly red

can't happen? we are watching it happen in slow motion.

indeed

386 spare o'lake  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:39:48pm

re: #370 windsagio

Theres been alot of discussion on just that subject, and he's made his suggestoins pretty clear. Did you just miss 'em?

You really do have a bad habit, friend.

387 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:39:55pm

re: #369 darthstar

You snark, but Haiti is in a beautiful location, with considerable low lands and mountains alike. Western development would be a start to helping them recover. God knows the entire city of Port au Prince is already demoed, so encourging resorts to build (a good way would be to offer tax incentives for development, so long as they also build affordable housing in addition to their casino resorts--jobs & homes, jobs & homes).

And that begs the question. I have been to many of the islands in the area and most (if not all) have incredible resorts that take in lots of $$$$$$$

Why not there!?!?

388 windsagio  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:39:57pm

re: #378 sattv4u2

That's better :p

I could argue that 40% is substantially lower than 50%, but I'm not gonna bother, 'cuz the fact remains you were pretty damn close to right.

I acknowledge that people with those plans are getting hosed. Like I said at the time I think its good, those should disappear anyways.

Just please get real sources next time :p the NY Post is like getting it from the Globe.

389 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:40:26pm

re: #378 sattv4u2

re: #372 sattv4u2

here ,, take a few more

[Link: news.google.com...]

The Colts party for Saturday Night is going to be huge!
Go Colts!

390 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:40:46pm

re: #384 TampaKnight

The CIA listed Mexico as #2 on their list of states in danger of collapsing last year, I believe.

who was #1 California?

391 windsagio  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:41:13pm

re: #375 reine.de.tout

woah woah touchy!

I'm just asking... not trying to suppress you. I think it comes from wanting to say what he said before, but not wanting to put the words into his mouth >>

re: #386 spare o'lake

Mmm? Whats that? >>

392 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:41:27pm

re: #388 windsagio

That's better :p

I could argue that 40% is substantially lower than 50%, but I'm not gonna bother, 'cuz the fact remains you were pretty damn close to right.
I acknowledge that people with those plans are getting hosed. Like I said at the time I think its good, those should disappear anyways.

Just please get real sources next time :p the NY Post is like getting it from the Globe.

I was actually very far off "right". I speculated as low as 5%-10%, but got hammered for the 50%!
hmmm

393 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:41:29pm

re: #390 brookly red

who was #1 California?

talk about rollin...en fuego!

394 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:41:49pm

re: #380 brookly red

wouldn't be great if they found oil there...

Then someone would find a way to get those people out of there..

395 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:42:18pm

re: #389 HoosierHoops

The Colts party for Saturday Night is going to be huge!
Go Colts!

Bite Me !

//

(good luck ,,, I would love to see a Colts/ Chargers AFC final ,, but I would prefer it be played outdoors in SD

396 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:42:18pm

re: #382 spare o'lake

How about we just help the poor fuckers get through this disaster before we start with the historical guilt trips?

Way to go, teeth!

397 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:42:43pm

re: #355 reine.de.tout

Well, we may have a responsibility.
Which is why, I believe, this exists.

Bagua says - too little, too late.
Perhaps.
I'm interested in knowing what his alternate proposal is.

"This" being the USAid page on Haiti.

USAid's "vision for Haiti" has always been "stability". The kind that lets Disney buy labor there for twelve cents an hour so they can make a markup of one thousand percent when they sell their Mickey Mouse footies here for twelve bucks.

Without massive international exposure of the prison-island sweatshop system that is the Haitian economy, the best the people can hope for is a return to the status quo ante. Believe me, no one there will be exceptionally grateful except the slimeballs who contract the work orders for Hanes and J.C. Penney.

398 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:43:10pm

re: #355 reine.de.tout

Well, we may have a responsibility.
Which is why, I believe, this exists.

Bagua says - too little, too late.
Perhaps.
I'm interested in knowing what his alternate proposal is.

I wrote more on that on prior threads.

In short, it is too late for Haiti with its current population, the Island can not support them. A large percentage of the population should be resettled in the countries responsible for their condition. For those that remain, an action similar to the US post war in Japan and Germany is the minimum necessary.

This means the real rule of law, not the slimy UN, real development, education and assistance with restoring their democracy.

399 windsagio  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:43:29pm

re: #392 sattv4u2

What exactly do I have to do to make you quit gloating? I'll most certainly do it!

400 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:43:49pm

re: #391 windsagio

woah woah touchy!

I'm just asking... not trying to suppress you. I think it comes from wanting to say what he said before, but not wanting to put the words into his mouth >>

re: #386 spare o'lake

Mmm? Whats that? >>

Yes, I'm touchy.

I don't know a lot about Haiti, and I figure if I ask the right questions, I can get a quicker understanding from folks here than from surfing around the internet. I'm simply trying to clarify my understanding, and I'm not here 24/7, so YES there may be things I missed. But many of the answers I'm getting are snarky and snippy so yes, I'm touchy.

401 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:44:08pm

re: #371 reine.de.tout

The people running the gov't there aren't Haitians?
Who are they?

American CEOs in Minnesota.

402 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:44:20pm

re: #397 Cato the Elder

Thank you.

403 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:44:22pm

re: #388 windsagio

Just please get real sources next time :p the NY Post is like getting it from the Globe.

The Boston Globe? I agree!!!

404 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:44:49pm

re: #363 Silvergirl

No. I'd like to see it. Yeah, some real life experience has a way of turning thinking around.

No Reservations is on the Travel Channel. It's mostly about Bourdain traveling to different countries, sampling the local food and dispensing travel observations re: #367 brookly red

/I see this as a great opportunity to move the UN to Haiti...

I was sort of hoping to relocate their headquarters to Bethlehem. But Port Au Prince might be a good choice, too.

405 TampaKnight  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:44:51pm

What's sad is that on a cruise once I went to Guatemala and was appalled at the conditions there, and that is considered to be much, much better off than what exists in Haiti.

406 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:45:12pm

re: #398 Bagua

And finally, thank you.
I'm not here all the time and DID NOT SEE you previous posts.

sheesh.

407 windsagio  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:45:17pm

re: #403 sattv4u2

I was thinking Democratic Underground or Kos :D :D


/does this really need a tag?

408 Ojoe  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:45:23pm

The "new kind of internationalism" that would help here is the application of building codes.

Engineering, and re-bar, and a strong enough concrete would have saved 50,000 lives.

It is doable.

Corruption will keep it from happening.

Shooting off your mouth will keep it from happening.

409 Soap_Man  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:45:36pm

re: #389 HoosierHoops

The Colts party for Saturday Night is going to be huge!
Go Colts!

Colts To Rest Starters For First Game Of Playoffs

410 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:45:42pm

re: #395 sattv4u2

Bite Me !

//

(good luck ,,, I would love to see a Colts/ Chargers AFC final ,, but I would prefer it be played outdoors in SD

I'll bet next year the NFL feeds to Singapore will be in Chinese...What do I need? Direct TV? A TV that does English subtitles? What good in SAP in Singapore?

411 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:45:58pm

re: #394 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Then someone would find a way to get those people out of there..

indeed...
but really why would getting them out of their be a good thing? It's their home they fought for it, I don't think they wanna leave.re: #404 SixDegrees

I was sort of hoping to relocate their headquarters to Bethlehem. But Port Au Prince might be a good choice, too.

they speak French you know...

412 Cato the Elder  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:46:03pm

re: #389 HoosierHoops

The Colts party for Saturday Night is going to be huge!
Go Colts!

I'm from Baltimore. May the Colts all break their backs.

413 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:46:34pm

re: #399 windsagio

What exactly do I have to do to make you quit gloating? I'll most certainly do it!

If "gloating" means "setting the record straight", nothing, really

I ASKED a question, SPECULATING on a range of percentages from 5-50. I still have no idea what the final number will be, (hence ,, QUESTION), yet you and your tag team buddy WOZZ decided that I was saying that the tax would be 50% and promoting fear mongering

414 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:47:04pm

re: #409 Soap_Man

Colts To Rest Starters For First Game Of Playoffs

I think I hate you!
*wink*

415 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:47:06pm

re: #382 spare o'lake

How about we just help the poor fuckers get through this disaster before we start with the historical guilt trips?

Who said anything about not helping them now? The point being they need much more help, and this tragedy is an opportunity to educate others as to the US and others very real responsibility for the suffering. This would hopefully lead to real help, not just the minimum emergency aid.

And you can call it a guilt trip if you like, would it be a guilt trip to say a murderer should be punished for a murder he committed yesterday? Live in the present is fine, but if we don't understand the past we can not do the right thing.

416 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:47:50pm

re: #411 brookly red

they speak French you know...

temporarily of course...Haiti is a wasteland, not fit for children right now...and the prospect of even more violence looms

417 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:47:52pm

re: #405 TampaKnight

What's sad is that on a cruise once I went to Guatemala and was appalled at the conditions there, and that is considered to be much, much better off than what exists in Haiti.

I've been appalled at conditions I've seen in Mexico . . . and I'm sure by Haitian standards, Mexicans live royally.

418 brookly red  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:48:19pm

re: #389 HoosierHoops

The Colts party for Saturday Night is going to be huge!
Go Colts!

and so will be the let down... huge!

419 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:49:11pm

re: #412 Cato the Elder

I'm from Baltimore. May the Colts all break their backs.

Hi Cato! Hope you had a great vacation..
*Baltimore? I thought you were from hill #3 in Rome*
Who knew?

420 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:49:15pm

re: #418 brookly red

and so will be the let down... huge!

I'm picking the Colts...logic dictates it

421 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:49:21pm

Some raw footage aboard the Carl Vinson while it was underway to Haiti. You'll see a test pattern at first video starts at 0.32. No narration.

USS Carl Vinson Prepares to Deliver Aid to Haiti

422 robdouth  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:49:27pm

re: #146 Shiplord Kirel

That's what I originally thought when I listened to him the first couple times. Again I go back to the whole, give Glover the benefit of the doubt, but it's real easy to see how that is the message some could get. That's not creative, that's pretty straightforward. I don't get how people can say he is thinking global warming caused the quake. I'm leaning towards the positive spin of it, even though it hurts me to defend Glover.

423 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:49:38pm

re: #400 reine.de.tout

Yes, I'm touchy.

I don't know a lot about Haiti, and I figure if I ask the right questions, I can get a quicker understanding from folks here than from surfing around the internet. I'm simply trying to clarify my understanding, and I'm not here 24/7, so YES there may be things I missed. But many of the answers I'm getting are snarky and snippy so yes, I'm touchy.

Your questions are welcome and appropriate, as always. I agree that snark is detrimental to the discussion. We all learn from each other and benefit from the honest exchange of views. I hate the partisan sniping.

424 prairiefire  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:50:21pm

re: #410 HoosierHoops

There should be some British satellite stations. Is you daughter going to go? It could be a great opportunity for her.

425 windsagio  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:50:26pm

re: #413 sattv4u2

You're pursuing a vendetta from the other day.

I'm sorry that I got you that mad :(

426 Ojoe  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:50:35pm

Rebar. 2,500 min PSI concrete. Shear walls. Test cylinders. Inspectors with real authority.

There is no mystery about this.

427 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:51:24pm

re: #410 HoosierHoops

I'll bet next year the NFL feeds to Singapore will be in Chinese...What do I need? Direct TV? A TV that does English subtitles? What good in SAP in Singapore?

I know that our teleport in Los Angeles sends the games to the Pacific rim, but I don;t know who takes it there.
Here in Atlanta we send them to Europe and South America

428 robdouth  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:51:33pm

re: #173 Charles

In all fairness, this was what I originally thought. This is a reasonable interpretation of what he said, although like I said, it's jumping the shark, and since it's not clear, you have to give him a chance to explain before you go into outrage mode. Measure twice bitch once I always say.

429 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:51:37pm

the Purple People Eaters have landed...

430 windsagio  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:51:49pm

re: #400 reine.de.tout

I'm sorry, I honestly didn't mean it as snark. I just got up a little while ago, and the synapses are still a little clogged.

431 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:51:56pm

re: #426 Ojoe

Rebar. 2,500 min PSI concrete. Shear walls. Test cylinders. Inspectors with real authority.

There is no mystery about this.

Of course, for which one needs a functioning economy and government. Haiti has been denied both.

432 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:52:05pm

re: #430 windsagio

I'm sorry, I honestly didn't mean it as snark. I just got up a little while ago, and the synapses are still a little clogged.

:-)

433 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:52:21pm

re: #426 Ojoe

Rebar. 2,500 min PSI concrete. Shear walls. Test cylinders. Inspectors with real authority.

There is no mystery about this.

all funded from elsewhere....I'm in

434 darthstar  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:52:27pm

Over at the great orange satan, there's a drive to donate these: Shelter Box USA

They're up to 26 of them so far (it takes $1,000 to buy one shelter box, which has one or two 10 person tents, as well as other supplies). It's an interesting organization, and given that shelter is going to be an issue, another option for people looking at ways to help out Haiti.

435 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:53:29pm

re: #425 windsagio

You're pursuing a vendetta from the other day.

I'm sorry that I got you that mad :(

a 'vendetta"!?!!?
wow ,,,,,,,

I was raked over the coals for ASKING if it could be 50%
I found multiple sources that said it was 40% (BEFORE the unions are exemted out ,,, which logically means less people kicking in,, they'll have to kick in more!)
I posted the links to set the record straight

{sigh}

436 Ojoe  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:54:41pm

re: #431 Bagua

Yes, corruption & non-government makes decent building go away.

437 spare o'lake  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:55:31pm

re: #396 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Way to go, teeth!

438 prairiefire  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:56:34pm

re: #429 albusteve

I need to chill some Bittburger myself.

439 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:56:35pm

re: #398 Bagua

I wrote more on that on prior threads.

A large percentage of the population should be resettled in the countries responsible for their condition.

Huh? What are you now, some kind of liberal leftist who thinks someone else is always responsible?

As to the actual practicalities of what you propose, there are probably 10,000,000 Haitians of which half are teenagers. You are going to resettle overnight how many millions where?

Then when, say, only 5 million are left (and you decided who goes and who stays, right?) what do you do?

They screwed it up when there were only 5 million before, and that wasn't too long ago; so obviously someone else has to run the place for them until they figure out how to do so themselves.

You have a solution for that too?

440 albusteve  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:56:49pm

re: #434 darthstar

Over at the great orange satan, there's a drive to donate these: Shelter Box USA

They're up to 26 of them so far (it takes $1,000 to buy one shelter box, which has one or two 10 person tents, as well as other supplies). It's an interesting organization, and given that shelter is going to be an issue, another option for people looking at ways to help out Haiti.

cool idea, seems a little pricey tho

441 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:57:48pm

re: #436 Ojoe

Yes, corruption & non-government makes decent building go away.

And lack of money and resources.

442 Stanghazi  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:58:39pm

re: #441 Bagua

And lack of money and resources.

They don't have the $ to buy the rebar. They'll put up shelter anyway they can.

443 webevintage  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 2:59:30pm

If you spend all your time being outraged over stupid shit then when something really outrageous happens no one will pay any attention to you Timmy.

444 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:01:16pm

Look overre: #362 windsagio

Not gonna get into it more than this, but you'll have to do better than a rag like the NY Post. Whats next the Washington Times?

haha you got downdinged for that! I guess some people consider the Ny Post "The paper".

(they do have the most awesome headlines ever, though)

445 robdouth  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:01:41pm

re: #178 oneisnotprime

Charles, your interpretation doesn't work. The quote is ambiguous and Tim Blair's interpretation may be wrong, but 'this' in 'this is the response' clearly refers to the earthquake and not the international relief.

If we substitute "the international relief" into Danny Glover's sentence, it reads: "when we did what we did at the climate summit, in Copenhagen, the international relief is the response, this is what happens, you know what I’m sayin’? That['s why] we have to act now."

Doesn't make sense--why do we have to act now. On the other hand, substituting "the earthquake" makes perfect sense in context:

"when we did what we did at the climate summit, in Copenhagen, the earthquake is the response, this is what happens, you know what I’m sayin’? That['s why] we have to act now."

Actually this seems like solid logic. I've said numerous times today to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, and I still believe you give him a chance to explain before condemnation, but this explanation at least seems more plausible than the Charles explanation at the moment. It's such a shitty audio quality that it's hard to speculate, but at least if you follow this reasoning, it's not an outrageous outrage. Just like those who are automatically saying it's clear he said something outrageous are jumping the shark, so is defending what he said as "clear." One of those rare times when both sides are jumping the shark, but no one ever learns.

However, anyone trying to say he was claiming AGW caused the earthquake, either hasn't seen the video or is just doing the out-outrage like Charles said.

446 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:02:09pm

re: #440 albusteve

cool idea, seems a little pricey tho

For two ten person tents?

447 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:03:36pm

re: #439 Naso Tang

Huh? What are you now, some kind of liberal leftist who thinks someone else is always responsible?

Nonsense, I outlined that there is direct and compelling US responsibility for the situation in Haiti. It is not the attitude you are mentioning when this is the case.

As to the mechanics, it is well within our collective ability to fix once we accept the need and make the commitment.

448 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:04:15pm

re: #418 brookly red

and so will be the let down... huge!

There is something nobody is talking about...And you could take it to your bookie..
The Colts are pissed and ready to explode on the Ravens.. Peyton is pissed..This team is highly motivated.. The Ravens have 2 crappy corners.. Peyton will destroy those guys early and often.. This Colts team is going to be so pissed off Saturday night.. The Ravens will lose.. 31-17.. The Colts score points..
And Ray Lewis..Meet Dallas Clark...Try coverage dude..Do you really think the Colts are stupid enough to run at you? You'll be dropping back a lot..
And the most important thing to think about if you are placing a bet on this game?
The Colts aren't the least afraid of the Ravens...This is man up time in the NFL.. Whoever the Colts have wanted to beat this year..They have...And now they have a real frigging attitude...
*Hoopster reporting from Indiana*

449 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:04:35pm

re: #374 brookly red

got a problem with the free press?

The Weekly World News is "the free press" too!

450 badger1970  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:05:45pm

re: #429 albusteve

Well at least they aren't going against Staubach's and Person's offensive pass interference, ahem, Hail Mary this time.

451 spare o'lake  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:06:04pm

re: #445 robdouth

Actually this seems like solid logic. I've said numerous times today to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, and I still believe you give him a chance to explain before condemnation, but this explanation at least seems more plausible than the Charles explanation at the moment. It's such a shitty audio quality that it's hard to speculate, but at least if you follow this reasoning, it's not an outrageous outrage. Just like those who are automatically saying it's clear he said something outrageous are jumping the shark, so is defending what he said as "clear." One of those rare times when both sides are jumping the shark, but no one ever learns.

However, anyone trying to say he was claiming AGW caused the earthquake, either hasn't seen the video or is just doing the out-outrage like Charles said.

I honestly doubt that even Glover has any idea what he really meant.

452 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:06:45pm

re: #50 exelwood

So who's crazier? Robertson or Glover?

The real question is who is more powerful, and who is doing more damage. The answer is blindingly obvious.

453 robdouth  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:07:16pm

re: #451 spare o'lake

That's why I don't want to say one way or the other, but now, I have to say, maybe trying to get an explanation is pointless. Is it silly to expect if they asked for clarification of what he meant, that he would be more clear?

454 spare o'lake  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:08:11pm

re: #447 Bagua

Nonsense, I outlined that there is direct and compelling US responsibility for the situation in Haiti. It is not the attitude you are mentioning when this is the case.

As to the mechanics, it is well within our collective ability to fix once we accept the need and make the commitment.

You mean like New Orleans?

455 webevintage  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:08:58pm

re: #440 albusteve

cool idea, seems a little pricey tho

I thought so too, but there is a lot in the boxes and it includes the cost of deployment.

From their website:
How does ShelterBox spend its money?
ShelterBox Trust's latest audited figures (2006-2007) show that 92% of our international income was spent directly on the boxes, their contents, and deployment costs; 6% on support costs; 1% on management and administration and 1% on fundraising and publicity. In the US, ShelterBox USA allocates 85% to boxes, contents, and deployment costs; 15% is retained for administrative and operating expenses.

456 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:09:15pm

re: #447 Bagua

Nonsense, I outlined that there is direct and compelling US responsibility for the situation in Haiti. It is not the attitude you are mentioning when this is the case.

As to the mechanics, it is well within our collective ability to fix once we accept the need and make the commitment.

You are waffling. The USA is not responsible for the condition in Haiti, except to the extent that we could have annexed the place 50 years ago.

As to the mechanics, I think that is ridiculous. It is within our collective abilities to stand on Mars within 10 years, but it won't happen that soon for many reasons. In this case it is your responsibility to define how many, where, and who are resettled, how many would remain, and I might add you also need to explain what you will do to ensure that they maintain a stable population that the island can support for the indefinite future so that you don't have to face the same problem again.

Your move.

457 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:09:24pm

re: #452 WindUpBird

The real question is who is more powerful, and who is doing more damage. The answer is blindingly obvious.

I'm not sure either is doing any actual damage. I haven't heard anyone respond to Robertson's statements, for example, other than to call him a buffoon - at best - or something much, much worse. And Glover is likewise just assumed to be an incoherent idiot. I doubt that anything either one says has much actual impact; the only people paying real attention are True Believers in the first place, and they've already swallowed.

458 robdouth  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:10:47pm

re: #452 WindUpBird

The real question is who is more powerful, and who is doing more damage. The answer is blindingly obvious.

I think you've hit the crux of this. Let's assume the worst for a second and say for the sake of argument that what Glover said was maliciously intended and he meant that the earthquake was divine retribution for our poor behavior at Copenhagen. What does that change vis a vis Pat Robertson? Not a damn thing, but there will be idiot talking heads on the right that try to do the lowest common denominator thing and say something along the lines of: "Look the left has people equally as bad, quit worrying about what Robertson or Rush said."

I would only respect someone on the right who said that what Rush and Robertson said is 10 times worse, and then condemned Glover's statement as being stupid and wrong. That way even though they are jumping the shark, their credibility is still at least somewhat in tact.

459 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:11:02pm

re: #143 theliel

That way lies madness. And probably some massive cash if you could film it, but it'd totally take 2d10 SAN along the way.

We'll find out Ann Coulter is actually from Yuggoth. IA!

460 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:11:21pm

re: #457 SixDegrees

I'm not sure either is doing any actual damage. I haven't heard anyone respond to Robertson's statements, for example, other than to call him a buffoon - at best - or something much, much worse. And Glover is likewise just assumed to be an incoherent idiot. I doubt that anything either one says has much actual impact; the only people paying real attention are True Believers in the first place, and they've already swallowed.

That said, I still would like to see both Robertson and Glover handed shovels and dropped into Haiti for a couple of weeks to aid in the cleanup instead of running their mouths.

461 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:11:29pm

re: #456 Naso Tang

Have you read any of my prior posts? Your comment ignores everything I have written on several threads.

The US is directly responsible, I have outlined that clearly.

462 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:13:46pm

There are two constants that come to mind when disasters of this nature happen in the world:

1) Pundits of the opposition party will always say something stupid or insensitive in order to score political points

2) In such instances, Pat Robertson almost always gets to say "FIRST"!

463 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:13:46pm

re: #424 prairiefire

There should be some British satellite stations. Is you daughter going to go? It could be a great opportunity for her.

I would love for her to live in Singapore...I mean she is living with a girlfriend in a an Apt. in the NoCal.. All our Family is there...
But what the Hell.. Move with pops to Singapore for a couple of years you ain't really doing shit know..No killer jobs right now in Cali..Heck I was so lucky to grow up in California Boom time.. Boy you could make serious cash in those days...

464 robdouth  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:14:23pm

re: #457 SixDegrees

I'm not sure either is doing any actual damage. I haven't heard anyone respond to Robertson's statements, for example, other than to call him a buffoon - at best - or something much, much worse. And Glover is likewise just assumed to be an incoherent idiot. I doubt that anything either one says has much actual impact; the only people paying real attention are True Believers in the first place, and they've already swallowed.

I have to disagree. While Glover can make "Hollywood" (whatever that as an entity is) look bad, Pat Robertson has a strong following among some of the Christian right and with that comes very powerful purse strings. If he says Haiti made a pact with the devil, that implies they got what they deserved, and anyone who still sees him as legit takes that as a message not to donate. I wouldn't be surprised if there is less donations this time because it's a "black heathen" country in the Robertson-types eyes, then they donated for Indonesia after the Tsuname. If that is the case after all is said and done, then he has definitely had a serious impact on this situation. Granted, this is speculation, but it's not absurd to follow that train of logic and see how Robertson is at least creating potential to cause damage.

465 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:14:45pm

re: #427 sattv4u2

I know that our teleport in Los Angeles sends the games to the Pacific rim, but I don;t know who takes it there.
Here in Atlanta we send them to Europe and South America

I'll google it...:)

466 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:15:41pm

re: #457 SixDegrees

I'm not sure either is doing any actual damage. I haven't heard anyone respond to Robertson's statements, for example, other than to call him a buffoon - at best - or something much, much worse. And Glover is likewise just assumed to be an incoherent idiot. I doubt that anything either one says has much actual impact; the only people paying real attention are True Believers in the first place, and they've already swallowed.

Robertson has an entire cable television network.

Glover...does not.

Robertson has real power, real access, and influences people around the country. I absolutely believe what he says has impact. With a very specific demo (not too many 30-somethings watch shows like the 700 club) Robertson once ran for president, as well. Glover is just another actor running his mouth who doesnt know what he's talking about.

it's easy for us to dismiss Robertson, because to us, he just seems like a ridiculous old fool. But ridiculous as he is, he weilds a lot of power.

467 Stanghazi  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:16:05pm

re: #458 robdouth

I would not have heard about Glover's comments except for this blog. I don't read the right wing outrage of the day. Even though, I am grateful for Charles to bring all this shit up.

Now Pat Robertson & Rush Limbaugh's comments were spread far and wide. And especially Rush, with his millions of listeners, has the ability to influence people not to donate, and to lose even more of their ability to feel empathy.

468 windsagio  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:17:54pm

re: #444 WindUpBird

"All the news I want to hear!"


*and I'm out, going to Powell's, The complete Little Orphan Annie Vol. 4 is finally in stock.

469 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:18:06pm

re: #464 robdouth

I have to disagree. While Glover can make "Hollywood" (whatever that as an entity is) look bad, Pat Robertson has a strong following among some of the Christian right and with that comes very powerful purse strings. If he says Haiti made a pact with the devil, that implies they got what they deserved, and anyone who still sees him as legit takes that as a message not to donate. I wouldn't be surprised if there is less donations this time because it's a "black heathen" country in the Robertson-types eyes, then they donated for Indonesia after the Tsuname. If that is the case after all is said and done, then he has definitely had a serious impact on this situation. Granted, this is speculation, but it's not absurd to follow that train of logic and see how Robertson is at least creating potential to cause damage.

Hence my remarks about True Believers. They were already there when he made his statements.

The reaction elsewhere has been universally negative - even more so than usual, as Robertson went so far over the top in displaying gross insensitivity this time that it was difficult to ignore. I'd say it's probably a net win for sanity in the sense that far more fence sitters will be repulsed by Robertson's remarks than attracted by them.

470 windsagio  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:19:15pm

re: #466 WindUpBird

ok one more callback.


HOW DARE YOU insult the greatest generation?!


/dissapears into the witness protection program.

471 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:19:50pm

re: #466 WindUpBird

Robertson has an entire cable television network.

Glover...does not.

Robertson has real power, real access, and influences people around the country. I absolutely believe what he says has impact. With a very specific demo (not too many 30-somethings watch shows like the 700 club) Robertson once ran for president, as well. Glover is just another actor running his mouth who doesnt know what he's talking about.

it's easy for us to dismiss Robertson, because to us, he just seems like a ridiculous old fool. But ridiculous as he is, he weilds a lot of power.

See above; I don't see how he's added to that power with his latest outburst.

472 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:19:54pm

re: #457 SixDegrees

And if you really want to get mad, read up on Pat Robertson's associations with Liberian President Charles Taylor and Robertson's diamond mining interests in Liberia. Robertson was advocating for Taylor, even as Taylor was harboring Al Qaida operatives in his country, and using his charities as cover for diamond mining.

This isn't just some goofy old man. This guy is very smart, and very evil.

473 Stanghazi  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:21:18pm

re: #472 WindUpBird

And if you really want to get mad, read up on Pat Robertson's associations with Liberian President Charles Taylor and Robertson's diamond mining interests in Liberia. Robertson was advocating for Taylor, even as Taylor was harboring Al Qaida operatives in his country, and using his charities as cover for diamond mining.

This isn't just some goofy old man. This guy is very smart, and very evil.

AND the late dictator Mobutu Sese Seko.

474 prairiefire  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:22:37pm

re: #463 HoosierHoops

re: #463 HoosierHoops

There are a lot of International corporations with headquarters there. If she hasn't traveled overseas yet, I would highly recommend it

475 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:23:10pm

re: #471 SixDegrees

See above; I don't see how he's added to that power with his latest outburst.

Well, I don't think he's gaining market share or anything. His demographic is antediluvian. He's talking to the people who already hang on his every word. And he could have used that power for good or evil in the wake of a humanitarian nightmare. And he used it for evil.

Just think if he went the other way: if he pulled on all his believers' heartstrings and implored them to donate to the relief effort. I'm wondering how many of his adherents' minds were changed regarding whether they should donate to the relief effort by his crack about the devil.

476 webevintage  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:23:23pm

re: #472 WindUpBird

This isn't just some goofy old man. This guy is very smart, and very evil.


and a very, very bad ad for Jesus....or as they say around these parts "witness".

477 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:23:25pm

re: #472 WindUpBird

And if you really want to get mad, read up on Pat Robertson's associations with Liberian President Charles Taylor and Robertson's diamond mining interests in Liberia. Robertson was advocating for Taylor, even as Taylor was harboring Al Qaida operatives in his country, and using his charities as cover for diamond mining.

This isn't just some goofy old man. This guy is very smart, and very evil.

Oh, I completely agree. If there's a Hell, Robertson will hold a place of honor there.

I just don't see how his latest sputterings are going to influence anyone who isn't already hopelessly beyond reason. I suspect that the net effect will be a loss of support rather than a gain, although his current adherents are sure to redouble their zealotry.

478 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:24:47pm

re: #466 WindUpBird

With a very specific demo (not too many 30-somethings watch shows like the 700 club)

When it was broadcast over the airwaves (not just on cable tv), I used to watch it for the lulz. That's when I saw his response to the Dover trial, and had my "Ah ha" moment regarding Intelligent Design.

479 robdouth  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:25:28pm

re: #467 Stanley Sea

I would not have heard about Glover's comments except for this blog. I don't read the right wing outrage of the day. Even though, I am grateful for Charles to bring all this shit up.

Now Pat Robertson & Rush Limbaugh's comments were spread far and wide. And especially Rush, with his millions of listeners, has the ability to influence people not to donate, and to lose even more of their ability to feel empathy.

So how does that not jive with anything I said above. I'm agreeing with you. In fact I was taking a stab at why the right is trying to make a big deal of the Glover thing. I even also stated how Robertson and you listed how Rush's comments could be more detrimental. Where's the beef I guess is what I'm asking? We are in agreement as I see it, are we not?

480 mich-again  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:25:53pm

Danny Glover said..

this is what happens, you know what I’m sayin’? That we have to act now

I don't care how anyone on either side spins it. When Glover refers to the earthquake and then in the same breath says "..we have to act now", he is saying that we have to act as in do something to prevent future occurrences.

Glover is either an idiot or he thinks the people listening to him are.

481 SixDegrees  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:26:13pm

re: #475 WindUpBird

Well, I don't think he's gaining market share or anything. His demographic is antediluvian. He's talking to the people who already hang on his every word. And he could have used that power for good or evil in the wake of a humanitarian nightmare. And he used it for evil.

Just think if he went the other way: if he pulled on all his believers' heartstrings and implored them to donate to the relief effort. I'm wondering how many of his adherents' minds were changed regarding whether they should donate to the relief effort by his crack about the devil.

Impossible to know. Just as it's impossible to know how many of his adherent's minds were so repelled by his comments that they abandoned him altogether, or how many of his detractors increased their donations to Haiti in retaliation for his remarks. We're in the realm of pure speculation now.

482 Stanghazi  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:26:30pm

re: #479 robdouth

Oh yes, in agreement - I was just "adding on" to your comment.

483 robdouth  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:27:52pm

re: #480 mich-again

Danny Glover said..


I don't care how anyone on either side spins it. When Glover refers to the earthquake and then in the same breath says "..we have to act now", he is saying that we have to act as in do something to prevent future occurrences.

Glover is either an idiot or he thinks the people listening to him are.

Or he means we have to act now to save as many people as we can. Look, you need to take a couple shots of tequila, have a dictionary in front of yourself, and take a couple blows to the head before you will understand exactly what was said, but then you'd probably relay it just like Glover did so, I wouldn't try to read too far into that.

484 Stanghazi  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:27:53pm

re: #479 robdouth

Sorry for the misunderstanding!!

485 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:28:22pm

re: #477 SixDegrees

Yeah, it's a matter of steering the people he's already got access to. The rational non-crazy part of the country ignores him.

I tell you though, , a little anecdote about those shows...I was pretty surprised when, many years ago (1999 or so) I showed up for work at the health care facility I used to work at and found the (pretty smart, I thought, i got along with him ok) night CNA watching the 700 club, and TALKING TO THE SCREEN, agreeing with all the apocalyptic gibberish they were saying.

486 Stanghazi  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:29:34pm

re: #485 WindUpBird

Yeah, it's a matter of steering the people he's already got access to. The rational non-crazy part of the country ignores him.

I tell you though, , a little anecdote about those shows...I was pretty surprised when, many years ago (1999 or so) I showed up for work at the health care facility I used to work at and found the (pretty smart, I thought, i got along with him ok) night CNA watching the 700 club, and TALKING TO THE SCREEN, agreeing with all the apocalyptic gibberish they were saying.

Ugh. I have scrolled by channel surfing & I swear, every time I land, something outrageous or WTF is being said.

487 robdouth  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:30:17pm

re: #482 Stanley Sea

Oh yes, in agreement - I was just "adding on" to your comment.

Oh ok, because when you responded to me I was thinking, why's he getting on my case, I agree with him. I think we can all agree though that we still need to get the opinions of Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon, Glenn Beck, Don King, IMUS, Howard Stern, Hannity, Sean Penn, Kanye West, and Alec Baldwin before we can really make any solid stands one way or another. We need the brilliant heavy hitters from all sides to weigh in with the intelligent discourse we expect from our trendsetters.

/sarc off

488 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:30:37pm

re: #461 Bagua

Have you read any of my prior posts? Your comment ignores everything I have written on several threads.

The US is directly responsible, I have outlined that clearly.

No I haven't read all your prior posts. I have known about Haiti for possibly longer that you have been alive, and I have no intention of arguing hindsight international politics with you.

I maintain, on principle, that people are ultimately responsible for their own situation. Cuba has a better argument that the USA is responsible for their situation, such as it is, than Haiti that has never been on our shit list.

As to what you claim to have outlined clearly, it doesn't matter what the arguments are regarding responsibility for Haiti, according to your words, being vastly overpopulated and incompetent to govern.

My primary argument with you in this instance was your suggestion to resettle an undefined but major percentage of 10 million people "somewhere else", and let the details be someone else's problem.

489 Stanghazi  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:34:12pm

re: #487 robdouth

Sometimes....this blog is an argument fest. Sometimes I walk in kinda primed. Sometimes not. I'm still trying to figure most of it out.

490 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:37:49pm

re: #488 Naso Tang

No I haven't read all your prior posts. I have known about Haiti for possibly longer that you have been alive, and I have no intention of arguing hindsight international politics with you.

If you haven't read my posts and have no intention of discussing the history I have outlined, then what is the point of making uninformed comments?

As to your speculation on my age and your vast advantage in knowledge and experience regarding Haiti, you are entirely out to lunch on both counts.

You are normally far more reasonable than this, so I'll assume you are having an off day.

491 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:50:19pm

re: #490 Bagua

If you haven't read my posts and have no intention of discussing the history I have outlined, then what is the point of making uninformed comments?

As to your speculation on my age and your vast advantage in knowledge and experience regarding Haiti, you are entirely out to lunch on both counts.

You are normally far more reasonable than this, so I'll assume you are having an off day.

No my friend, you are having an illogic day. I've been busting my ass re-siding part of a (small) barn all day, and I'm in a good farmer mood and my muscles hurt.

To restate; if you insist we can talk politics another time. This time I am attempting to nail your friendly ass to the wall on a matter of practical reality; namely resettling a major percentage of a nation's population and let the Devil handle the details. (Perhaps Pat Robertson has suggestions?)

492 pharmmajor  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:57:33pm

Glover, Limbaugh, Robertson... I don't know why anyone takes them or any of the other airhead pundits on the left and the right seriously. They're all sheep following their own partisan shepherds.

493 Fenway_Nation  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 4:10:43pm
This is the section being pulled out of context:

Lame. Just pathetic that somebody took the time to defend Danny Glover's statements- or assail his critics as ignorant and opportunistic. Cripes, Charles....why don't you just type in 'He meant well'.....

When Curt Schilling wrote a blog entry critical of Martha Coakley on the WEEI blog, all kinds of hacks popped out of the woodwork to assail him as a dumb baseball player who shouldn't mouth off about politics because he didn't know what he was talking about. I kinda predicted that the first celubutard who would say something along the lines of what Glover said about Haiti would get a free pass. Sure enough, internationally reknowned foreign policy and climate expert Danny Glover is somehow beyond criticism because his words are 'taken out of context'.....

BTW....if you go to www.goodsearch.com and type in 'Haiti' in the search bar below the 'Who do you goodsearch for?' button, more than 50 different charities and relief agencies that do work in Haiti will pop up. If you select one of them and go on to search the web, goodsearch will donate $.01 per search result to the organization you highlighted.

Helps if you're intentionally vague and then click on some of the results that are automatically suggested.....bumps up the total number of searches done that way.

494 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 4:18:42pm

re: #493 Fenway_Nation

Go ahead and attack for what he actually said, no problem. It's a different thing to stretch and distort his words to attack him dishonestly, for things he didn't say.

495 iceweasel  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 4:30:02pm

Haven't caught up with everything here yet-- apologies if this was already posted:

Beck: Obama is ‘dividing the nation’ by reacting ‘so rapidly to Haiti.’

I also believe this is dividing the nation…to where the nation sees him react so rapidly on Haiti and yet he couldn’t react rapidly on Afghanistan. He couldn’t react rapidly on Ft. Hood. He couldn’t react rapidly on our own airplanes with an underwear bomber…it doesn’t make sense. [...] Three different events and Haiti is the only one. I think personally that it deepens he divide to see him react this rapidly to Haiti.

The Idiotarian of the Year never lets us down.

496 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 4:32:10pm

And by the way, if Danny Glover comes out and says, "Yeah I absolutely meant that global warming caused the earthquake," I'll be the first to publicly say I got it wrong. I don't think I'm going to have to do that.

497 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 4:40:40pm

re: #493 Fenway_Nation

Lame. Just pathetic that somebody took the time to defend Danny Glover's statements- or assail his critics as ignorant and opportunistic. Cripes, Charles...why don't you just type in 'He meant well'...

When Curt Schilling wrote a blog entry critical of Martha Coakley on the WEEI blog, all kinds of hacks popped out of the woodwork to assail him as a dumb baseball player who shouldn't mouth off about politics because he didn't know what he was talking about. I kinda predicted that the first celubutard who would say something along the lines of what Glover said about Haiti would get a free pass. Sure enough, internationally reknowned foreign policy and climate expert Danny Glover is somehow beyond criticism because his words are 'taken out of context'...

BTW...if you go to www.goodsearch.com and type in 'Haiti' in the search bar below the 'Who do you goodsearch for?' button, more than 50 different charities and relief agencies that do work in Haiti will pop up. If you select one of them and go on to search the web, goodsearch will donate $.01 per search result to the organization you highlighted.

Helps if you're intentionally vague and then click on some of the results that are automatically suggested...bumps up the total number of searches done that way.

No offense, Fenway, but look at what Charles wrote:

Danny Glover’s a pretty hardcore Hollywood leftist; hangs out with Hugo Chavez, visits Cuba, talks a lot about American misdeeds in Central America. (And there are a few.) He’s trying to politicize the Haitian disaster, clumsily, by saying that all the Caribbean island nations are in danger from global warming (in addition to earthquakes), and that “a new kind of internationalism” is needed to address it. He rambles for a while about this, then finishes by saying that the international meeting in Copenhagen led to the “response” — the international relief effort.
...
Blair proceeds to the inevitable comparison with Pat Robertson’s remarks, which isn’t totally off base — Glover and Robertson are both trying to politicize the disaster — but the comparison breaks down because Glover is at least making a point (murky though it is) based on facts: it’s true that island nations will the first to feel the effects of rising sea levels.

He never let Glover off the hook, since Charles calling someone a "hardcore Hollywood leftist" is not a term of endearment. He just blamed Glover for the shit that Glover actually did rather than try to stretch it where it won't reach. Danny Glover is an asshole, and it's right to rap him across the knuckles for trying to use a disaster to advance his political causes. But our criticism of Glover will be far stronger if it is well grounded.

498 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 4:41:14pm

re: #495 iceweasel

Haven't caught up with everything here yet-- apologies if this was already posted:

Beck: Obama is ‘dividing the nation’ by reacting ‘so rapidly to Haiti.’

The Idiotarian of the Year never lets us down.

Idiotarian for sure. I'd ask how but I won't bother. Trying to figure out Glenn "Hannibal Lecter" Beck is a waste of time. Beck should cheer up. If anything, Obama is helping to unite the wingnuts.

499 iceweasel  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 4:43:55pm

re: #498 Gus 802

Idiotarian for sure. I'd ask how but I won't bother. Trying to figure out Glenn "Hannibal Lecter" Beck is a waste of time. Beck should cheer up. If anything, Obama is helping to unite the wingnuts.

Srsly. If there is one area they all agree on it's this: Whatever Obama does is always wrong.

I have a funny report from Greater Wingnuttia to share. If we have an open thread I'll pop it in there, otherwise possibly here for you. :-)

500 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 4:46:46pm

re: #498 Gus 802

Idiotarian for sure. I'd ask how but I won't bother. Trying to figure out Glenn "Hannibal Lecter" Beck is a waste of time. Beck should cheer up. If anything, Obama is helping to unite the wingnuts.

Here works.

Wanted to add that I think Obama leading the charge to assist Haiti if anything unites this country. It does many of our citizens proud I think and even facilitates a greater appreciation of the military who are playing the largest role in the first few days in assisting in this aid -- and that includes all branches of the military. This also includes a great sense of pride with those serving in the armed forces being deployed to Haiti.

501 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 4:48:56pm

re: #498 Gus 802

Idiotarian for sure. I'd ask how but I won't bother. Trying to figure out Glenn "Hannibal Lecter" Beck is a waste of time. Beck should cheer up. If anything, Obama is helping to unite the wingnuts.

Please don't insult Thomas Harris' marvelous character by comparing him to Glen Beck. Unlike Glen Beck, Hannibal Lector actually knows history, shows good taste in art, and has a sense of manners. He would not however, "have Beck for dinner" as there are no wines that go well with meat so throughly marinated in Bad Craziness.

502 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 4:52:44pm

re: #491 Naso Tang

No my friend, you are having an illogic day. I've been busting my ass re-siding part of a (small) barn all day, and I'm in a good farmer mood and my muscles hurt.

To restate; if you insist we can talk politics another time. This time I am attempting to nail your friendly ass to the wall on a matter of practical reality; namely resettling a major percentage of a nation's population and let the Devil handle the details. (Perhaps Pat Robertson has suggestions?)

The mechanics of how the situation in Haiti could be improved, or how resettlement would work is worthy of discussion. However, the underlying premise of responsibility is key to this as there would be no public support for measures that would actually work unless US responsibility was acknowledged. And rightly so, I do not advocate these sorts of measures for population in the world who are suffering where the US was not a primary cause of that suffering.

Should that prerequisite occur there is a large task, but surely not an impossible task, especially if France, Germany and England met their share of the obligation.

As to the actual numbers, there are more illegal aliens said to be in the US than the entire population. The resettlement of even a few million would have a dramatic impact if it was coupled with reconstruction on the Island and the expat also send money home. It is a big problem but not an impossible problem.

503 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 4:53:14pm

re: #501 Dark_Falcon

Please don't insult Thomas Harris' marvelous character by comparing him to Glen Beck. Unlike Glen Beck, Hannibal Lector actually knows history, shows good taste in art, and has a sense of manners. He would not however, "have Beck for dinner" as there are no wines that go well with meat so throughly marinated in Bad Craziness.

Sorry. ;) I was inspired by a Jon Stewart skit from the 14th.

504 iceweasel  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 4:53:14pm

re: #500 Gus 802

Here works.

Wanted to add that I think Obama leading the charge to assist Haiti if anything unites this country. It does many of our citizens proud I think and even facilitates a greater appreciation of the military who are playing the largest role in the first few days in assisting in this aid -- and that includes all branches of the military. This also includes a great sense of pride with those serving in the armed forces being deployed to Haiti.

Agreed. Saw an article recently about how the internet and text messaging are helping facilitate aid -- apparently they were able to raise 3 million from ordinary folks versus only 400K for Katrina aid via the new technologies. Most especially texting. We'd definitely be over the 3 million mark now, as that was only by 10am est the day after. Helps that the white house site has links up for it all too. Say what one will about Obama, one of his (and his campaign's) strengths has always been that he (and they) 'get' the new technologies.
Obama's penning the cover story for an upcoming Newsweek as well, all about Haiti. Again, I think all of this can only be good.

BBIAB with the wingnut info. You're gonna laugh!

505 iceweasel  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:02:51pm

So, male wingnuts generally seem to have some difficulty, let's say, with the wimmins. Ace o Spade's infamous remarks comparing the female genitalia to 'bacon and playdough' come to mind.

Here's a fun new example. Male wingnut posts about a (crap) scientific study purporting to show that the GSpot doesn't exist. Here's some of his 'witty' analysis:

The G-Spot: The mythical pot of gold at the end of a rainbow

Well… I guess that sucks. How many man hours have been wasted in the bedrooms of America trying to find the product of some woman’s flight of fancy about her super-heroine, realistic-karate-chop-like-action orgasmic abilities? How many times have men been blamed for failing to satisfy their woman when it isn’t their fault, but basic human physiology’s?

An even better question: How about you ladies just be quiet about unfullfilling sex lives and go get us a beer? The game is on.

(That was a horrible joke. I’m sorry.)

InstapunditHack picks it up. Consequently the lefty blogs find it, and lefty trolls invade the comment section to point and laugh.
Noted racist Kathy Shaidle, Five Feet of Fury Foamy Froth, also appears to defend the wingnut.

Hilarity, and abuse, ensue. Comments section most definitely rated NSFW (not safe for work, or wingnuts). Link is to google cache.
Enjoy!

506 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:07:16pm

re: #505 iceweasel

So, male wingnuts generally seem to have some difficulty, let's say, with the wimmins. Ace o Spade's infamous remarks comparing the female genitalia to 'bacon and playdough' come to mind.

Here's a fun new example. Male wingnut posts about a (crap) scientific study purporting to show that the GSpot doesn't exist. Here's some of his 'witty' analysis:

The G-Spot: The mythical pot of gold at the end of a rainbow

InstapunditHack picks it up. Consequently the lefty blogs find it, and lefty trolls invade the comment section to point and laugh.
Noted racist Kathy Shaidle, Five Feet of Fury Foamy Froth, also appears to defend the wingnut.

Hilarity, and abuse, ensue. Comments section most definitely rated NSFW (not safe for work, or wingnuts). Link is to google cache.
Enjoy!

lol Mythical? And the other two pick it up. Talk about group think.

507 Jimmah  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:10:43pm

re: #505 iceweasel

InstapunditHack picks it up. Consequently the lefty blogs find it, and lefty trolls invade the comment section to point and laugh.
Noted racist Kathy Shaidle, Five Feet of Fury Foamy Froth, also appears to defend the wingnut.

Hilarity, and abuse, ensue. Comments section most definitely rated NSFW (not safe for work, or wingnuts). Link is to google cache.
Enjoy!

What a roasting that guy is getting in those comments. The humanity hilarity!

508 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:15:09pm

Well, we lizards know the G-Spot exists. If we ever doubted it, those doubts were dispelled by our power couple recently:

509 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:16:02pm

re: #507 Jimmah

What a roasting that guy is getting in those comments. The humanity hilarity!

Some keepers over there. My only guess is that the g-spot is some kind of "librul conspiracy" according to what looks like Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons.

510 iceweasel  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:25:06pm

re: #509 Gus 802

Some keepers over there. My only guess is that the g-spot is some kind of "librul conspiracy" according to what looks like Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons.

Heh. Yeah, I did literally LOL.
Hard to pick a favourite, but this one was good:


Great news! Now if only they could prove that this damn “clitterus” thing that my girlfriend is always buggin me about don’t really exist, either, then sex might become halfway fun for guys like me.

Also, can someone do a sientific study that says that women who want foreplay before sex are fridgid bitches, and another one proving that cuddling after sex is linked to breast cancer? I’d sure appreciate that.

The more serious point here would be that the scientific study really is crap, (checked it out, not that I needed to, being a Vagina-American myself) and it's extremely annoying to have 'scientists' ignoring the testimony of women about their own bodies. Which has a long and storied tradition in science, of course, especially in this 'area'. So to speak.

511 Jimmah  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:25:15pm

re: #509 Gus 802

Some keepers over there. My only guess is that the g-spot is some kind of "librul conspiracy" according to what looks like Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons.

Yep! It's a conspiracy to keep neckbeard man down.

512 iceweasel  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:28:55pm

re: #508 Dark_Falcon

Well, we lizards know the G-Spot exists. If we ever doubted it, those doubts were dispelled by our power couple recently:


[Video]

Hee! Thanks for posting that. We do have another couple here now, on the more right leaning side-- rightwingconspirator and dragonlady. Nice!

513 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:29:46pm

re: #510 iceweasel

The more serious point here would be that the scientific study really is crap, (checked it out, not that I needed to, being a Vagina-American myself) and it's extremely annoying to have 'scientists' ignoring the testimony of women about their own bodies. Which has a long and storied tradition in science, of course, especially in this 'area'. So to speak.

G-spot sience is teh fascism! //

Here's Five Feet of Foamy Mouth's comment found elsewhere:

G-Spot: the global warming of sex...

They needed a "study" for this? They could have just phoned me...
(Overshare: I've always thought of it as the "P-spot", as in, "Why are you trying to make me pee and/or piss me off??")

I can see why.

This comment from your link was the funniest:

Abusive Troll // Jan 10, 2010 at 12:03 pm

An interesting topic coming one whose last encounter with a vagina was the day of his birth.

514 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:30:49pm

re: #511 Jimmah

Yep! It's a conspiracy to keep neckbeard man down.

Actually, its just the bitterness of a man whose reaction to wanting what he can't have is sourness. To dust off another Jimmah-ice Production:

515 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:34:19pm

I'd like to state for the record that, aside from my initial forays of teenaged fumbling gropery, I have never had a problem helping a woman to her final destination. Seriously, it's easier than changing a flat tire.

516 Jimmah  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:35:07pm

re: #508 Dark_Falcon

Well, we lizards know the G-Spot exists. If we ever doubted it, those doubts were dispelled by our power couple recently:


[Video]

Heh - thanks DF. :) That video always makes me happy.

btw...It occurs to me that while wingnuts may lack a G-spot, they certainly have a "B"-spot. And that video was enough to set it off in some...:D

517 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:35:23pm

re: #502 Bagua

The mechanics of how the situation in Haiti could be improved, or how resettlement would work is worthy of discussion. However, the underlying premise of responsibility is key to this as there would be no public support for measures that would actually work unless US responsibility was acknowledged. And rightly so, I do not advocate these sorts of measures for population in the world who are suffering where the US was not a primary cause of that suffering.

Should that prerequisite occur there is a large task, but surely not an impossible task, especially if France, Germany and England met their share of the obligation.

As to the actual numbers, there are more illegal aliens said to be in the US than the entire population. The resettlement of even a few million would have a dramatic impact if it was coupled with reconstruction on the Island and the expat also send money home. It is a big problem but not an impossible problem.

There are some 350+ million people in the USA. You think 175 million + are illegal?

I know you mean well, but you're out of touch with realities and the really sad thing is that this planet cannot indefinitely provide space and everything else that goes with it, when a specie's population exceeds the capacity of the land to support it.

Malthus was wrong in his age, but he will likely be right in ours.

518 iceweasel  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:36:03pm

re: #513 Gus 802

That was my fave comment of all! Particularly because of the user name. It's pretty common for commenters on the lefty side to have certain shared nics (because they're commenting on smaller sites on the left and right that don't require reg). Comments by lefties under "Abusive Troll" are almost always pretty good ones.

"Malfunctioning Glenn Reynolds Robot" is always nice to see as well. Such posts typically consist of nothing more than "HEH INDEED HEH INDEED READ THE WHOLE THING HEH INDEED HEH". I see he or they didn't appear there yet.

Poor Shaidle. Overshare!

519 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:36:51pm

re: #493 Fenway_Nation

Glover's critics are lying about what he's said. Those are simple facts. A lie is a lie, even when someone is lying about your adversary.

520 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:37:25pm

Taking a break, Bagua.

521 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:38:09pm

re: #517 Naso Tang

I think he meant to say the entire population of Haiti. With that, I am officially butting out.

522 Gus  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:38:47pm

re: #518 iceweasel

That was my fave comment of all! Particularly because of the user name. It's pretty common for commenters on the lefty side to have certain shared nics (because they're commenting on smaller sites on the left and right that don't require reg). Comments by lefties under "Abusive Troll" are almost always pretty good ones.

"Malfunctioning Glenn Reynolds Robot" is always nice to see as well. Such posts typically consist of nothing more than "HEH INDEED HEH INDEED READ THE WHOLE THING HEH INDEED HEH". I see he or they didn't appear there yet.

Poor Shaidle. Overshare!

Overshare indeed. Publicly admitting to incontinence over that is kind of, strange. Really strange.

523 Jimmah  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:38:54pm

re: #514 Dark_Falcon

Actually, its just the bitterness of a man whose reaction to wanting what he can't have is sourness.

Yep. There's been a lot of that around lately, sad to say.

524 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:40:33pm

re: #495 iceweasel

It's an interesting line, the right-wing heads that are attempting to sabotage and attack a humanitarian effort, versus the ones with a conscience who understand that this is a time to help people.

525 iceweasel  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:43:18pm

re: #519 WindUpBird

Glover's critics are lying about what he's said. Those are simple facts. A lie is a lie, even when someone is lying about your adversary.

Yep. It's also just a really, really, really bad idea to resort to lying to attack your political adversary or someone you perceive as an ideological opponent. Doing so will dilute any and all criticisms you might have in the future that are well-founded.

But as we know, the rightwing blogosphere no longer has any interests in facts at all, and is quite willing to spread the most terrible lies (and slander) against their 'enemies'. Cf Jim Hoft's posts about CJ, for merely one foul example.

526 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:45:03pm

re: #524 WindUpBird

It's an interesting line, the right-wing heads that are attempting to sabotage and attack a humanitarian effort, versus the ones with a conscience who understand that this is a time to help people.

True. Some like Laura Ingraham understand the situation well enough to just focus on helping people. But others are so blinded by ODS that they just blindly attack Obama, not caring that the attacks hurt them far more than him.

527 iceweasel  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:49:38pm

re: #526 Dark_Falcon

True. Some like Laura Ingraham understand the situation well enough to just focus on helping people. But others are so blinded by ODS that they just blindly attack Obama, not caring that the attacks hurt them far more than him.

Yes, but they also don't seem to care if their attacks hurt the people of Haiti, by demotivating some Americans to support the relief efforts, or donate to the Red Cross, etc. And I hold that against them most of all. I take it for granted that they want to hurt Obama, and these sort of attacks on him just turn decent people away from them, even if those same decent people don't like Obama much and have valid criticisms of him.
It's the way the howler monkeys on the right are willing to harm the relief efforts that really pisses me off.

528 pharmmajor  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:54:02pm

re: #495 iceweasel

Haven't caught up with everything here yet-- apologies if this was already posted:

Beck: Obama is ‘dividing the nation’ by reacting ‘so rapidly to Haiti.’

The Idiotarian of the Year never lets us down.

Glen shows us again that a man with no functional brain is still capable of speech.

Go Team Retard!

529 iceweasel  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:58:22pm

re: #528 pharmmajor

Glen shows us again that a man with no functional brain is still capable of speech.

Go Team !

Upding, but I'm not a fan of that last word. Although I am a fan of 'douchetard' or 'fucktard', and all uses of 'tard' that indicate obsessive intelligence or skill in a particular area, such as 'tech-tards' to denote tech wizards.

This has been a wholly pointless post on iceweasel's personal word preferences. Carry on!

530 pharmmajor  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 6:00:58pm

re: #529 iceweasel

Upding, but I'm not a fan of that last word. Although I am a fan of 'douchetard' or 'fucktard', and all uses of 'tard' that indicate obsessive intelligence or skill in a particular area, such as 'tech-tards' to denote tech wizards.

This has been a wholly pointless post on iceweasel's personal word preferences. Carry on!

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be offensive. I do not want to demean or belittle the mentally disabled, but I do often use the "r-word" when discussing unbelievable idiots like Glenn Beck.

531 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 6:01:56pm

re: #517 Naso Tang

There are some 350+ million people in the USA. You think 175 million + are illegal?

No, bad wording, I said: "As to the actual numbers, there are more illegal aliens said to be in the US than the entire population." I am referring to the entire population of Haiti, not the US. Thus the portion that the US may absorb under my plan is a fraction of illegal immigration and only about three years worth of legal immigration. A big number, but not unimaginably large.


I know you mean well, but you're out of touch with realities and the really sad thing is that this planet cannot indefinitely provide space and everything else that goes with it, when a specie's population exceeds the capacity of the land to support it.

Malthus was wrong in his age, but he will likely be right in ours.

I'm not at all out of touch with realities, please cite my comment which would support that, (first you'd have to read my actual comments you know.)

I am well aware of the population problem, not only in Haiti, but in many problem spots. Would you not agree that the more developed societies tend to have less, or even negative population growth? Bringing the Haitians into the modern world would likely have a similar effect.

532 iceweasel  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 6:06:08pm

re: #530 pharmmajor

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be offensive. I do not want to demean or belittle the mentally disabled, but I do often use the "r-word" when discussing unbelievable idiots like Glenn Beck.

No offense taken here, I promise. And I didn't think at all that you were trying to demean or belittle anyone-- apart from Beck, who deserves both.
Be advised that there are some here though who would seize on that word and try to turn the thread into "pharmmajor hates the mentally disabled!!11!", in order to ignore all good points you make. It's happened before. Just a headsup. :)

533 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 6:06:27pm

re: #521 Slumbering Behemoth

Hey SB are you there?

534 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 6:08:38pm

re: #533 Bagua

Hey SB are you there?

No, I'm over here.

535 Stanghazi  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 6:10:31pm

Wheeee! My first foray into Redstate.

Gag.

Here's the tagline of one of the commenter's:

“The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, “Save Us!”….and I’ll look down and whisper, “No”…The Watchmen

WTF? (I don't know The Watchmen, so what's the deal?)

And get this, spell check fixed an error in the idiot's tag line.

536 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 6:11:25pm

Did you see my follow up to the other night? I was trying to make a pun:

Slumbering Behemoth, whoa there mate, I was making a joke, I thought you'd find it funny and silly. A nocturnal lepidopteran insect is a moth, a few days ago I called you a "male moth" play on a he moth. My apologies that it came across wrong.

Also a lepidopteran is a scaly winged creature, and the moth/butterfly is the symbol of change. Thus your change is opinion led to my pun.

Only fun intended, apologies that it came across wrong.

537 Stanghazi  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 6:11:30pm

re: #535 Stanley Sea

Shit! I posted in the wrong thread!

538 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 6:19:58pm

re: #536 Bagua

I'm kind of puzzled as to why you might think I'd find it humorous to be called a fickle insect. Sorry if my retort was a bit heated.

But no matter. It's a new day, and a new thread. Water under the bridge, dude, we're cool.

539 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 6:21:45pm

re: #538 Slumbering Behemoth

And with that I do have to split. Cigarettes and beer don't buy themselves.

540 Bagua  Fri, Jan 15, 2010 6:36:36pm

re: #538 Slumbering Behemoth

Be - he - moth = behemoth.

We have made several similar name/association jokes. But, again, not defending a poor pun that fell flat, I just wanted you to know that I wasn't trying to be anything other than friendly.

541 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 16, 2010 6:25:04am
542 Sloppy  Sat, Jan 16, 2010 4:31:46pm

Relative to doing something helpful for Haiti in the long run, might a review of MacArthur's work in Japan after WWII suggest something? Just asking. I don't know.


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