Keith Jarrett’s encore improvisation from his 1984 solo concert in Tokyo is simply one of the most amazing feats of pianistic technique I’ve ever seen. This video focuses on his hands much of the time, so any piano players out there may want to have a box of tissues handy; you’ll be weeping after you watch.
Youtube Video1 |
darthstar Sat, Mar 26, 2011 2:56:55pm |
Okay…those are some tickled ivories. Thanks for sharing that.
| 2 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Mar 26, 2011 3:00:00pm |
The left hand’s amazing. He keeps that accompaniment going flawlessly while he plays incredible syncopated lines with his right. There aren’t many musicians I’d call geniuses, but he’s definitely one.
He was playing like this at the age of 17, by the way.
| 3 |
PhillyPretzel Sat, Mar 26, 2011 3:04:48pm |
He reminds me of the late Victor Borge. That was beautiful.
| 4 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 3:05:52pm |
There are somethings that cannot be learned.
You can learn to appreciate art and understand it. To create or execute art at that level is a whole other thing.
That’s one of the reason art and free expression matter. The rest of us can see what is possible.
| 5 |
austin_blue Sat, Mar 26, 2011 3:11:25pm |
That was sweet, The Koln Concerts are still my favorites by KJ.
| 6 |
wrenchwench Sat, Mar 26, 2011 3:18:04pm |
re: #1 darthstar
Okay…those are some tickled ivories. Thanks for sharing that.
The ebonies seemed to get their share as well!
| 7 |
SlartyBartfast Sat, Mar 26, 2011 3:26:06pm |
re: #2 Charles
Notice he’s reaching F to G (effortlessly!) with that left hand. I thought Emerson was a freak of nature, but Jarrett is truly amazing.
| 8 |
ProBosniaLiberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 3:39:49pm |
Off topic, but it seems that Gaddafi got handed his butt today. He definitely lost Ajdabiya, and maybe Brega as well. Here is the map of current control.
Also, for any who haven’t heard, we have the disturbing story of Iman al-Obeidi.
Obeidi said that she had been arrested at a checkpoint near Tripoli because she was from the rebel-held city of Benghazi, and detained for two days. She went on to say that she had been tied up, urinated and defecated on, and raped by 15 men. She also pleaded for friends still in held captive. Obeidi said that local residents near her place of detention had helped her to escape.
Thirdly, and totally unrelated, how do I make my computer read .svg? Many pictures on Wikipedia are in that format, and my computer can’t read them.
| 9 |
TedStriker Sat, Mar 26, 2011 3:44:52pm |
re: #8 ProLifeLiberal
Off topic, but it seems that Gaddafi got handed his butt today. He definitely lost Ajdabiya, and maybe Brega as well. Here is the map of current control.
Also, for any who haven’t heard, we have the disturbing story of Iman al-Obeidi.
Thirdly, and totally unrelated, how do I make my computer read .svg? Many pictures on Wikipedia are in that format, and my computer can’t read them.
What browser (and version) are you using? AFAIK, every major browser released in the past couple of years should support SVG natively.
| 10 |
ProBosniaLiberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 3:45:49pm |
re: #9 talon_262
IE 8. I think Chrome is on my computer as well.
| 11 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 3:48:57pm |
re: #10 ProLifeLiberal
IE 8. I think Chrome is on my computer as well.
Yeah. ie8 doesn’t support svg for some reason. Ditch ie for good.
| 12 |
ProBosniaLiberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 3:52:32pm |
re: #11 recusancy
I like my favorites. How does Chrome work with those?
| 13 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 3:53:16pm |
re: #12 ProLifeLiberal
I like my favorites. How does Chrome work with those?
Way better. They’re called bookmarks in every other browser.
| 14 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Mar 26, 2011 3:55:18pm |
That is insanely beautiful. Thank you for sharing this, Charles. I have come to appreciate him so much in the past year and yet I am still constantly surprised by the beauty and the joy of a piece like this one.
| 16 |
ProBosniaLiberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 3:57:00pm |
re: #15 ProLifeLiberal
Ok, Chrome works, but what about the favorites?
| 17 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 3:57:27pm |
re: #8 ProLifeLiberal
Off topic, but it seems that Gaddafi got handed his butt today. He definitely lost Ajdabiya, and maybe Brega as well. Here is the map of current control.
Also, for any who haven’t heard, we have the disturbing story of Iman al-Obeidi.
Thirdly, and totally unrelated, how do I make my computer read .svg? Many pictures on Wikipedia are in that format, and my computer can’t read them.
The recapture of Ajdaita by the rebels is of high import, but it remains to be seen if they can actually put in a proper attack. Sirte will be the test of that. It’s Gaddafi’s birthplace and his tribe will fight to maintain their position of privilege.
| 18 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 3:58:01pm |
re: #16 ProLifeLiberal
Ok, Chrome works, but what about the favorites?
Click that wrench image at the top right. Then bookmarks manager. Then click Organize Bookmarks. Then import.
| 19 |
ProBosniaLiberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:00:30pm |
re: #18 recusancy
I’m doing that, but it isn’t showing up.
| 20 |
HoosierHoops Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:01:21pm |
Butler beats Florida in OT!!
I need oxygen!! YEHAA!
| 22 |
ProBosniaLiberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:02:08pm |
re: #20 HoosierHoops
Butler is an underdog, correct?
| 23 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:02:37pm |
re: #19 ProLifeLiberal
I’m doing that, but it isn’t showing up.
Did you import anything? They’ll probably show up under “Other bookmarks”
| 24 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:02:50pm |
re: #20 HoosierHoops
Butler beats Florida in OT!!
I need oxygen!! YEHAA!
Best college game I’ve seen in a long, long time
| 25 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:03:10pm |
| 26 |
HoosierHoops Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:03:32pm |
| 28 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:04:43pm |
| 29 |
ProBosniaLiberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:05:10pm |
re: #23 recusancy
I’m trying to, but I can only keep opening the folders. And nothing happens when I open a favorite.
| 30 |
PhillyPretzel Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:05:47pm |
re: #28 The Shadow Do
No Philly teams and no Ivy League schools darn.
| 31 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:08:03pm |
re: #29 ProLifeLiberal
I’m trying to, but I can only keep opening the folders. And nothing happens when I open a favorite.
Oh. Export your favorites from IE first.
To export the Favorites folder, follow these steps:
In Internet Explorer, click Favorites, click the down-arrow next to Add to Favorites, and then click Import and Export.
Click Export to a file, and then click Next.
Click to select the Favorites check box, and then click Next.
Select the Favorites folder that you want to export. If you want to export all Favorites, select the top level Favorites folder. Otherwise, select the individual folder that you want to export.
Click Next.
Note By default, Internet Explorer creates a Bookmark.htm file in your Documents folder. If you want to use a name other than Bookmark.htm, or if you want to store the exported Favorites in a folder other than the Documents folder, specify the new file and folder name.
Click Next.
Note If you already have a file that has the same name, Internet Explorer asks you to replace it. Click Yes to replace the file. Click No to provide a new file name.
Click Export.
Click Finish.
| 32 |
HoosierHoops Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:08:29pm |
| 33 |
PhillyPretzel Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:09:51pm |
re: #32 HoosierHoops
Temple has good teams. Lousy transfer programs.
| 34 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:13:18pm |
Hey Hoops, I have KY and KS in the finals so my bracket is still alive.
Shoulda picked Butler though…
Refuse to lose!
| 35 |
ProBosniaLiberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:14:28pm |
re: #31 recusancy
I figured it out! Thank You!
Chrome hauls ass speed-wise. I like it. And it has auto-spell check. I’m very happy.
| 36 |
HoosierHoops Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:17:35pm |
re: #34 The Shadow Do
Hey Hoops, I have KY and KS in the finals so my bracket is still alive.
Shoulda picked Butler though…
Refuse to lose!
I have KU winning it all…Now that Butler is in the final 4, I hope they knock out the jaybirds
| 37 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:18:22pm |
re: #35 ProLifeLiberal
I figured it out! Thank You!
Chrome hauls ass speed-wise. I like it. And it has auto-spell check. I’m very happy.
Chrome is a much nicer browser than the alternatives at this point: Fast, stable, & well laid out. I only wish they’d compile it for PPC/Mac so I could use it on our older systems.
| 38 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:19:28pm |
re: #37 wlewisiii
Chrome is a much nicer browser than the alternatives at this point: Fast, stable, & well laid out. I only wish they’d compile it for PPC/Mac so I could use it on our older systems.
FF4 finally caught up. The beta is pretty good.
| 40 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:24:06pm |
re: #36 HoosierHoops
I have KU winning it all…Now that Butler is in the final 4, I hope they knock out the jaybirds
I’m on the other side of that proposition. I have KY. Oddly enough it is because I hate them. Call it respect. As a kid growing up in Indiana I was perpetually pissed that “our” Mr Basketball was always recruited to KY and not IU. Bastids.
| 41 |
wrenchwench Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:26:18pm |
re: #18 recusancy
Click that wrench image at the top right. Then bookmarks manager. Then click Organize Bookmarks. Then import.
Chrome has a wrench? I might have to look into that….
| 42 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:28:41pm |
re: #38 recusancy
FF4 finally caught up. The beta is pretty good.
I’ll give it a try. Has it proven error-free?
| 43 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:37:57pm |
| 44 |
Lidane Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:39:53pm |
re: #38 recusancy
FF4 finally caught up. The beta is pretty good.
I’m liking the beta client so far. It took a bit of getting used to, but it fits well with Windows 7, IMO.
| 45 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:48:02pm |
re: #26 HoosierHoops
Cinderella really
Colin cowherd made great point about butler yesterday. H said that since they recruit few if any “NBA prospects,” they keep their team together for longer periods of times, sometimes even redshirting their players. So with “4th year juniors” and “5th year seniors” they have disciplined players who understand their system, which helps them overcome some of their physical disadvantages. Butler is a unique program, not unlike Gonzaga, which does things the same way. They are very good for the sport.
| 46 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:49:28pm |
re: #36 HoosierHoops
I have KU winning it all…Now that Butler is in the final 4, I hope they knock out the jaybirds
No self respecting Sooner can root for KU :)
| 47 |
ProBosniaLiberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:51:48pm |
re: #46 _RememberTonyC
Eh, I rooted for them against Texas.
| 48 |
HoosierHoops Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:52:02pm |
| 49 |
TedStriker Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:53:17pm |
re: #38 recusancy
FF4 finally caught up. The beta is pretty good.
re: #44 Lidane
I’m liking the beta client so far. It took a bit of getting used to, but it fits well with Windows 7, IMO.
Y’all do realize FF4 went gold and is out now to the public, right?
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/new/
;-P
| 50 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:55:00pm |
re: #47 ProLifeLiberal
Eh, I rooted for them against Texas.
No self respecting Sooner could ever root FOR Texas :)
| 51 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 4:58:22pm |
re: #49 talon_262
re: #44 Lidane
Y’all do realize FF4 went gold and is out now to the public, right?
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/new/;-P
Ah. Well there ya go. Chrome is still better.
| 52 |
ProBosniaLiberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:00:52pm |
re: #50 _RememberTonyC
That’s right. Root for the lesser of two evils.
| 53 |
darthstar Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:02:49pm |
| 54 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:05:22pm |
re: #49 talon_262
re: #44 Lidane
Y’all do realize FF4 went gold and is out now to the public, right?
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/new/;-P
Why do they call it “going gold”?
| 55 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:08:56pm |
re: #54 Dark_Falcon
Why do they call it “going gold”?
It’s a term for software that is ready to ship. It’s quite recent - IIUC, at MS they call the final shipping version the “golden master” after the CDROM master that is burned for final release testing.
| 56 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:10:00pm |
Dan Rather, humiliated again….
Dan Rather aide: Crew working with US journalist harassed, humiliated by Israeli security
Andrew Glazer, an Emmy-award winning producer at Dan Rather Reports, wrote that the legendary anchorman came to do a story about improving Israeli-Palestinian relations pitched by Israel’s Foreign Ministry.
Glazer said problems mounted after they arrived. He said they were held up for hours at security checks. Israeli soldiers barred the crew’s veteran Palestinian cameramen — a Jerusalem resident — from accompanying Rather to a West Bank neighborhood. And then came the a strip search before an interview with Deputy Prime Minister Dan Meridor.
“Mr. Rather said that in his career, he had never seen a crew forced to strip prior to an interview — including the one he conducted with Saddam Hussein,” Glazer wrote.
Interesting. They don’t name the Palestinian cameraman but I’d be willing to bet he has a history.
| 57 |
darthstar Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:10:31pm |
re: #54 Dark_Falcon
Why do they call it “going gold”?
GA, General Availability, General Release, Gold…standard names of major releases. The actual release usually has a code name…usually alphabetic (Vegetables: Artichoke, Broccoli, Carrot, etc. or moons of Jupiter or countries.) When the .0 release (2.0, 3.0, 4.0 etc.) comes out, the name goes away.
| 58 |
The Shadow Do Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:10:46pm |
re: #45 _RememberTonyC
Colin cowherd made great point about butler yesterday. H said that since they recruit few if any “NBA prospects,” they keep their team together for longer periods of times, sometimes even redshirting their players. So with “4th year juniors” and “5th year seniors” they have disciplined players who understand their system, which helps them overcome some of their physical disadvantages. Butler is a unique program, not unlike Gonzaga, which does things the same way. They are very good for the sport.
Truth. The one and done phenoms the big schools always get are just getting worked in and then gone. Big schools with all the talent have a different kind of work to do to win big. Hell, Larry Bird didn’t make the finals at crummy little Indiana State until his senior year - surrounded by weak but uperclassmen players.
| 59 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:13:31pm |
re: #56 Killgore Trout
Dan Rather, humiliated again…
Dan Rather aide: Crew working with US journalist harassed, humiliated by Israeli securityInteresting. They don’t name the Palestinian cameraman but I’d be willing to bet he has a history.
What did Dan do wrong?
| 60 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:15:45pm |
re: #56 Killgore Trout
Dan Rather, humiliated again…
Dan Rather aide: Crew working with US journalist harassed, humiliated by Israeli securityInteresting. They don’t name the Palestinian cameraman but I’d be willing to bet he has a history.
I wonder if Mary Mapes was on the crew?
| 61 |
Targetpractice Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:18:25pm |
re: #57 darthstar
GA, General Availability, General Release, Gold…standard names of major releases. The actual release usually has a code name…usually alphabetic (Vegetables: Artichoke, Broccoli, Carrot, etc. or moons of Jupiter or countries.) When the .0 release (2.0, 3.0, 4.0 etc.) comes out, the name goes away.
Ayep. “Gone Gold” is a programmer term for when a software program has been released, either to the public over the internet, or to the manufacturer by way of a golden master disk that is used to stamp out copies for customer purchase. Usually when you hear that a program has “gone gold,” that it’s ready for release and either will be on the web shortly or on store shelves with a matter of days/weeks.
| 62 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:20:04pm |
re: #59 recusancy
What did Dan do wrong?
My guess would be he was hanging around some unsavory folks. None of the articles mention the camera man’s name but I guess he’s probably why they increased security measures. Also some versions of the article include this tid bit…
Glazer said in the Jan. 25 letter that the team held advance consultations with government and military officials and had a good experience with Palestinian security officials.
Maybe the Israelis were concerned about his overly friendly relationship with Palestinian “security” forces, who often double as terrorists in their spare time.
| 63 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:20:12pm |
| 64 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:20:35pm |
re: #56 Killgore Trout
Dan Rather, humiliated again…
Dan Rather aide: Crew working with US journalist harassed, humiliated by Israeli securityInteresting. They don’t name the Palestinian cameraman but I’d be willing to bet he has a history.
Hr doesn’t understand that the Palis have often used seemingly legitimate jobs like that to smuggle weapons for attacks. Israel also just had a bombing and they’ll be extra careful right now.
| 65 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:20:50pm |
| 67 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:21:28pm |
re: #64 Dark_Falcon
Hr doesn’t understand that the Palis have often used seemingly legitimate jobs like that to smuggle weapons for attacks. Israel also just had a bombing and they’ll be extra careful right now.
Good point. This might have been right around the time of the bombing.
| 68 |
Targetpractice Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:21:33pm |
re: #63 _RememberTonyC
Charles exposed his lies about Bush 43 a few years back
Ah, Memogate. Brings back memories.
| 69 |
Gus Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:22:18pm |
re: #66 recusancy
Got it. Being Palestinian is suspicious.
Airport security could never possibly be wrong nor act like douche bags don’t you know. They must be right. He could’ve, maybe, probably ______ .
| 70 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:24:09pm |
re: #64 Dark_Falcon
Hr doesn’t understand that the Palis have often used seemingly legitimate jobs like that to smuggle weapons for attacks. Israel also just had a bombing and they’ll be extra careful right now.
Oh you Ameri’s say stuff like this all the time.
| 71 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:24:28pm |
re: #66 recusancy
Got it. Being Palestinian is suspicious.
Sadly, yes, it is. Young Palestinian men are thoroughly indoctrinated in a death cult the preaches hatred for and murder of Jews. Given that indoctrination, any young Palestinian male must be considered suspect.
| 73 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:27:13pm |
re: #71 Dark_Falcon
Sadly, yes, it is. Young Palestinian men are thoroughly indoctrinated in a death cult the preaches hatred for and murder of Jews. Given that indoctrination, any young Palestinian male must be considered suspect.
// And should be stripped search at every opportunity. All the young ones.
| 74 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:28:46pm |
I’d been wanting to link to a review of William McGowan’s book on the New York Times, Grey Lady Down, but National Review’s review was written by Glenn Reynolds. Granted, it’s free of his bad craziness, but I still did want to post that on LGF. Thankfully, City Journal has its own review now:
The Worst of Times
Jacob Laskin
Abe Rosenthal, the long-serving former executive editor of the New York Times, used to have a recurring nightmare: that he would wake up someday to find that the Times had ceased to exist. It is a commentary on the paper’s much-diminished prestige that many now dream of such a day.
William McGowan doesn’t. While critical of what he considers the paper’s decline, he writes as an admirer of the Times and its place in American history. In his view, the Times once stood as a model of fair-minded, responsible journalism and an important civic and political institution in its own right. The problem, as he points out in his book, Gray Lady Down, is that the Times has remained a hugely influential organization even as it has abandoned its once lofty journalistic standards.
It was not always thus. Recalling the paper’s glory days, McGowan pays tribute to the late Rosenthal’s editorship. Though a political liberal, Rosenthal didn’t want the paper to become a sounding board for left-wing politics. He checked the paper’s drift to the left, particularly in its Washington bureau, by insisting that reporters conduct objective reporting and avoid potential conflicts of interest. Rosenthal memorably summed up his editorial policy: “I don’t care if my reporters are fucking elephants, as long as they aren’t covering the circus.” It’s a testament to Rosenthal’s dispassionate approach to news reporting that in 1972, William F. Buckley’s National Review—hardly a reflexive ally of the Times’s progressive politics—called for other media to emulate the paper’s standards.
If it’s hard to imagine a similar endorsement today, it’s because the Times, in McGowan’s view, has become a very different, and much less worthy, enterprise. McGowan attributes the paper’s decline to two main causes. The first is its embrace of so-called lifestyle journalism in the 1970s. Designed to give the staid “Gray Lady” a trendy makeover and lure a younger demographic, the focus on soft news failed to increase readership. It did, however, open the door for the left-wing politics that Rosenthal had resisted and which would gradually shape the paper’s cultural coverage. A case in point is the Times Book Review, a once-diverse forum for intellectual debate that now often shuns conservative titles, even when they top the paper’s own extended bestseller list.
| 75 |
PhillyPretzel Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:33:26pm |
re: #74 Dark_Falcon
And some folks want to know why I read The Wall Street Journal. Now you know.
| 76 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:34:39pm |
re: #66 recusancy
Got it. Being Palestinian is suspicious.
You seem to be unaware that Palestinian journalists, cameramen and photographers often have very friendly relationships with terrorists. They assist in staging fake incidents for propaganda purposes, They also film terrorists carrying out attacks, launching rockets and mortars into civilian areas, making bombs for buses and pizzarias, etc. My guess is that the Palestinian cameraman was one of the causes for concern.
| 77 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:34:57pm |
re: #75 PhillyPretzel
And some folks want to know why I read The Wall Street Journal. Now you know.
Yep. The WSJ has its own problems, but they pale in comparison. Still, Rupert Murdoch should be required to read this book. He needs to understand that pandering ruins a newspaper.
| 78 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:35:11pm |
re: #74 Dark_Falcon
I’d been wanting to link to a review of William McGowan’s book on the New York Times, Grey Lady Down, but National Review’s review was written by Glenn Reynolds. Granted, it’s free of his bad craziness, but I still did want to post that on LGF. Thankfully, City Journal has its own review now:
The Worst of Times
Jacob Laskin
That guy writes for American Spectator and Front Page Magazine. I tend to dislike anything from partisan-right sources.
| 79 |
TedStriker Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:35:32pm |
re: #71 Dark_Falcon
Broadbrush much, Dark? I certainly can’t agree with holding all Palestinian males under perpetual suspicion, just as all Saudi males aren’t murderous hijackers. This certainly doesn’t mean I agree with the fucked-up shit that comes out of ME society.
To each, upon their own merits…
| 81 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:36:20pm |
re: #76 Killgore Trout
You seem to be unaware that Palestinian journalists, cameramen and photographers often have very friendly relationships with terrorists. They assist in staging fake incidents for propaganda purposes, They also film terrorists carrying out attacks, launching rockets and mortars into civilian areas, making bombs for buses and pizzarias, etc. My guess is that the Palestinian cameraman was one of the causes for concern.
So you agree that being Palestinian is suspicious.
| 82 |
TedStriker Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:36:30pm |
re: #78 recusancy
That guy writes for American Spectator and Front Page Magazine. I tend to dislike anything from partisan-right sources.
Touche…
| 83 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:36:53pm |
re: #78 recusancy
That guy writes for American Spectator and Front Page Magazine. I tend to dislike anything from partisan-right sources.
Touche.
| 85 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:38:23pm |
re: #79 talon_262
Broadbrush much, Dark? I certainly can’t agree with holding all Palestinian males under perpetual suspicion, just as all Saudi males aren’t murderous hijackers. This certainly doesn’t mean I agree with the fucked-up shit that comes out of ME society.
To each, upon their own merits…
/ Relax, its probably the same for Palestinian female journo’s too.
| 86 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:39:04pm |
re: #79 talon_262
Broadbrush much, Dark? I certainly can’t agree with holding all Palestinian males under perpetual suspicion, just as all Saudi males aren’t murderous hijackers. This certainly doesn’t mean I agree with the fucked-up shit that comes out of ME society.
To each, upon their own merits…
You can get to know a person and then take then on their merits. But if you’re in charge of security, you need to know who’s likely to be a risk. And Palestinians pose a higher than normal risk, due to indoctrination. It’s about culture, not about race.
| 87 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:39:15pm |
re: #81 recusancy
So you agree that being Palestinian is suspicious.
I get the feeling you’re not interested in a serious discussion so I’ll just leave you with this….
Pallywood I - According to Palestinian Sources
I doubt you’ll watch it and I if you do you won’t believe it. So it goes.
| 88 |
darthstar Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:39:45pm |
re: #72 recusancy
Wow.
Sometimes you just have to take a deep breath and be thankful. Palestinians (and apparently Islam as a whole) aren’t exactly given a lot of slack especially in times of conflict when you have a terrorist bombing. Some people refuse to give them even more respect than calling them “Palis” (like n*****, kike, spic, etc.. not exactly a term of endearment). I find times like these its best to not read too closely.
| 89 |
Gus Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:40:31pm |
re: #76 Killgore Trout
You seem to be unaware that Palestinian journalists, cameramen and photographers often have very friendly relationships with terrorists. They assist in staging fake incidents for propaganda purposes, They also film terrorists carrying out attacks, launching rockets and mortars into civilian areas, making bombs for buses and pizzarias, etc. My guess is that the Palestinian cameraman was one of the causes for concern.
Actually the story only say that they barred the Palestinian cameraman from entering the West Bank. Doesn’t say if he was strip searched. It does say the crew was strip searched. Before the interview with Deputy Prime Minister Dan Meridor.
| 90 |
wrenchwench Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:43:56pm |
| 91 |
darthstar Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:47:24pm |
re: #90 wrenchwench
What does this mean?
We’ve got a lot of good people here. Emotionally charged topics sometimes bring out less than our best prose. I try to let those topics slide, unless the rhetoric is so over the top my status as a human being requires a response. I find it’s better to just think, well, people say stupid shit online all the time, and move on. It’s our positive qualities that keep me interested in engaging with the people here.
| 92 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:49:27pm |
re: #91 darthstar
We’ve got a lot of good people here. Emotionally charged topics sometimes bring out less than our best prose. I try to let those topics slide, unless the rhetoric is so over the top my status as a human being requires a response. I find it’s better to just think, well, people say stupid shit online all the time, and move on. It’s our positive qualities that keep me interested in engaging with the people here.
Sweeping generalizations and stereotypes can do that in a conversation.
| 93 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:51:04pm |
re: #91 darthstar
We’ve got a lot of good people here. Emotionally charged topics sometimes bring out less than our best prose. I try to let those topics slide, unless the rhetoric is so over the top my status as a human being requires a response. I find it’s better to just think, well, people say stupid shit online all the time, and move on. It’s our positive qualities that keep me interested in engaging with the people here.
agreed, I’m not interested in debate when the goal is to simply win, using snark and bad manners…I just state my opinion and move on…well put about the positives, rather than the negatives
| 94 |
darthstar Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:51:10pm |
re: #92 ozbloke
Sweeping generalizations and stereotypes can do that in a conversation.
Yep…which is why you can’t use them as a measure of a person’s tolerance for others. Unless, of course, the person making said generalization or stereotype is a politician, then that fucker’s toast. They know better than to show how they truly feel.
| 95 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:51:12pm |
re: #89 Gus 802
Actually the story only say that they barred the Palestinian cameraman from entering the West Bank. Doesn’t say if he was strip searched. It does say the crew was strip searched. Before the interview with Deputy Prime Minister Dan Meridor.
My speculation is that Rathers’ associations and crew members raised enough concern that extra security was needed. There’s probably a good reason that cameramen wasn’t allowed into the West Bank.
| 96 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:51:12pm |
re: #74 Dark_Falcon
I’d been wanting to link to a review of William McGowan’s book on the New York Times, Grey Lady Down, but National Review’s review was written by Glenn Reynolds. Granted, it’s free of his bad craziness, but I still did not want to post that on LGF. Thankfully, City Journal has its own review now:
The Worst of Times
Jacob Laskin
PIMF
| 97 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:53:17pm |
re: #95 Killgore Trout
My speculation is that Rathers’ associations and crew members raised enough concern that extra security was needed. There’s probably a good reason that cameramen wasn’t allowed into the West Bank.
What if there wasn’t a good reason?
| 98 |
darthstar Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:53:19pm |
re: #93 albusteve
agreed, I’m not interested in debate when the goal is to simply win, using snark and bad manners…I just state my opinion and move on…well put about the positives, rather than the negatives
Present company excepted, of course. :)
Seriously, do you think any of the fuckwits at HotAir or FreeRepublic would share their real names and phone numbers with each other? I feel safe doing that with some people here and at dKos, and I know others do too.
| 99 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:54:51pm |
re: #81 recusancy
So you agree that being Palestinian is suspicious.
I would also like to add that your automatic assumption is to cry “racism” when there’s a security issue. Why assume Israeli security are bigots instead actually concerned about possible terrorist attacks and assassinations? You’re broad brush complaint of racism betrays your own bigotry.
| 100 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:55:31pm |
re: #97 recusancy
What if there wasn’t a good reason?
Why do you assume the Israelis are racist bigots?
| 101 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:55:41pm |
re: #87 Killgore Trout
It is a very serious video… but… when the “corpse” crawled back onto the bier I couldn’t help but think “I’m feeling better… I think I’ll take a walk.” from Monty Python.
| 102 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:56:05pm |
Wow. My wife’s cousin just posted this job listing to his facebook status, with the commentary “They’re fucking nuts”
[Link: reno.craigslist.org…]
$8-10 an hour for 7 day a week, 12 hour day, backbreaking labor, sleeping in a sleeping bag with no electricity and no running water.
| 103 |
Gus Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:56:14pm |
re: #95 Killgore Trout
My speculation is that Rathers’ associations and crew members raised enough concern that extra security was needed. There’s probably a good reason that cameramen wasn’t allowed into the West Bank.
Yeah. Could have been for a multitude of reasons. Sometimes it’s as simple as a clash of personalities. Not enough information really and no one was hurt or arrested.
| 104 |
wrenchwench Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:56:37pm |
re: #91 darthstar
We’ve got a lot of good people here. Emotionally charged topics sometimes bring out less than our best prose. I try to let those topics slide, unless the rhetoric is so over the top my status as a human being requires a response. I find it’s better to just think, well, people say stupid shit online all the time, and move on. It’s our positive qualities that keep me interested in engaging with the people here.
That’s pretty nice. Unless someone said something that wasn’t “stupid shit” but just something you disagree with. You don’t have to engage on every topic. I let some slide also. But a lot of people seem to disengage rather than say what they are thinking when it comes to topics that are emotionally charged. The emotion won’t go out of those topics unless the topics get discussed.
I think recusancy was not reading closely if he failed to notice that Killgore was being more specific than “Palestinians”. He was saying something different than what D_F was saying. And you may have seen in the past that when someone does engage D_F on a contentious topic, he sometimes changes his position. It can be worth it to engage.
| 105 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:58:34pm |
re: #102 Obdicut
Wow. My wife’s cousin just posted this job listing to his facebook status, with the commentary “They’re fucking nuts”
[Link: reno.craigslist.org…]
$8-10 an hour for 7 day a week, 12 hour day, backbreaking labor, sleeping in a sleeping bag with no electricity and no running water.
No doubt there will be some who need the money and will be willing to do it.
| 106 |
darthstar Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:59:10pm |
re: #100 Killgore Trout
Why do you assume the Israelis are racist bigots?
I believe recusancy was simply asking a hypothetical question. To assume that there was a good reason to stop Dan Rather’s cameraman or whatever he was is to assume that Palestinians are suspect based on their race. To question the isolated situation doesn’t make a general statement about Israelis as a whole, but simply points to some of the problems of hyper-sensitive security procedures…there really is no good way to look at it. Either you’re right and the other race is bad, or you’re wrong and your race is bad. It’s black and white thinking and it never has a very nice answer.
| 107 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:59:25pm |
re: #100 Killgore Trout
It doesn’t take Israelis being racist bigots. It could be the guy was hassled because someone with some authority felt like swinging it around. It could be he was hassled because he’s interviewed terrorists lovingly. It could be any number of reasons.
Israel performs a ton of security stops every day, for good reason. They’re careful, usually, to make them as professional as possible because they have no desire to piss off non-radical Palestinians.
This might be an aberrant moment, or a perfectly legitimate one. Without more info, no way to say.
| 109 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:59:48pm |
re: #97 recusancy
What if there wasn’t a good reason?
That’s unlikely. The Israelis have the best security people in the world. I’ll take their word over that of Dan Rather. All due respect to the man, but Charles did show that Rather can be buffaloed if the line of BS happens to fit what he wants to be true.
| 110 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 5:59:55pm |
re: #100 Killgore Trout
Why do you assume the Israelis are racist bigots?
Did I say I assume that? I’m not the one making assumptions. I’m asking why you assume he’s guilty. If they have something on him then ok. If not then I’d say suspecting every Palestinian male is a pretty shitty policy.
| 111 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:00:57pm |
re: #105 ozbloke
No doubt there will be some who need the money and will be willing to do it.
Yep. Times are tough. Labor gets exploited. Bet they don’t bother paying overtime, either.
| 112 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:01:34pm |
I’d always prefer to err on the side of the Israelis….it only makes sense when lives may be at stake
| 113 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:03:14pm |
re: #111 Obdicut
“Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?”
-E. Scrooge
Yes. You can obviously find them on craigslist.
| 114 |
darthstar Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:03:19pm |
re: #104 wrenchwench
Agreed…I mocked D_F earlier today or yesterday (can’t remember exactly when it happened) and he asked for clarification, after which (I think) all is fine…it was light snark.
Emotionally charged topics are tough…not as tough as talking job creation with a Republican congressman (ABORTION!), but tough all the same.
Fortunately for me, it’s time to take my wife out to dinner. Peace, everyone.
| 115 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:03:51pm |
re: #111 Obdicut
Yep. Times are tough. Labor gets exploited. Bet they don’t bother paying overtime, either.
Wages suck, I use to play in a band in pubs in the seventies and eighties.
Pub bands today get no more than we did then.
Oh, but corporations profits are up…
| 116 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:05:22pm |
re: #111 Obdicut
Yep. Times are tough. Labor gets exploited. Bet they don’t bother paying overtime, either.
Bet they don’t look too carefully at anyones paperwork either. It’s even easier to rip off illegals than even desperate citizens.
| 117 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:06:06pm |
Heres some fun news:
Dangerous Army mine goes missing
The Army says it has had no success in tracking down a powerful anti-personnel mine that has been missing since a training exercise was held west of Brisbane last month.
The device known as a claymore, which is the size of a small suitcase and sprays ball bearings, disappeared during a Queensland University Regiment training exercise.
Ipswich Councillor Paul Tully says the Army has spent $500,000 looking for it.
A Defence Force spokesman says all possible locations have been searched using explosive-detection dogs.
| 118 |
Targetpractice Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:06:29pm |
re: #115 ozbloke
Wages suck, I use to play in a band in pubs in the seventies and eighties.
Pub bands today get no more than we did then.Oh, but corporations profits are up…
Yeah, you gotta love that. Wages have been pretty much stagnant for the past 20-30 years, depending on who you believe. Yet corporate profits continue to grow with every passing year. And we’re told that, despite their rising profits, that we must do more to create a “business friendly environment” if we wish to see more jobs created.
| 119 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:07:56pm |
re: #116 wlewisiii
12+ hours during this time of year, too? There’s not enough daylight to work safely for 12 hours up near Reno this time of year. At all.
Make $1000 doing the job, bust your knee up and, without insurance, have to pay $4000 for a reconstruction.
| 120 |
wrenchwench Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:08:07pm |
re: #114 darthstar
Fortunately for me, it’s time to take my wife out to dinner. Peace, everyone.
I gotta go too.
I’ll leave y’all with Cat Jarrett:
| 121 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:09:13pm |
re: #117 ozbloke
Heres some fun news:
Dangerous Army mine goes missing
The Army says it has had no success in tracking down a powerful anti-personnel mine that has been missing since a training exercise was held west of Brisbane last month.
The device known as a claymore, which is the size of a small suitcase and sprays ball bearings, disappeared during a Queensland University Regiment training exercise.
Ipswich Councillor Paul Tully says the Army has spent $500,000 looking for it.
A Defence Force spokesman says all possible locations have been searched using explosive-detection dogs.
Yikes. those are quite nasty. Normally, they’re armed to blow if someone hits their tripwire. They are brutally effective anti-personnel weapons, and i hope it does not fall into the wrong hands. A terrorist or militia type would love a weapon like that for all the wrong reasons.
| 122 |
Targetpractice Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:09:37pm |
re: #117 ozbloke
Heres some fun news:
Dangerous Army mine goes missing
The Army says it has had no success in tracking down a powerful anti-personnel mine that has been missing since a training exercise was held west of Brisbane last month.
The device known as a claymore, which is the size of a small suitcase and sprays ball bearings, disappeared during a Queensland University Regiment training exercise.
Ipswich Councillor Paul Tully says the Army has spent $500,000 looking for it.
A Defence Force spokesman says all possible locations have been searched using explosive-detection dogs.
*head desk* How the frak do you misplace a claymore?!
| 123 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:10:49pm |
re: #122 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
*head desk* How the frak do you misplace a claymore?!
Someone steals it.
| 124 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:11:50pm |
re: #119 Obdicut
12+ hours during this time of year, too? There’s not enough daylight to work safely for 12 hours up near Reno this time of year. At all.
Make $1000 doing the job, bust your knee up and, without insurance, have to pay $4000 for a reconstruction.
It’s like the Chicago Stockyards back in the day. No need to worry about safety, just replace anyone who gets hurt. Plenty of new immigrants to take the job. A job like that seems tailor-made for exploiting illegal immigrants.
| 125 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:11:52pm |
re: #119 Obdicut
4K knee reconstruction?
Only with an American Civil War surgeon.
vrrr vrrr vrrr vrrr
(is that how you spell the sound of a bone saw?)
| 126 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:12:10pm |
re: #122 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
*head desk* How the frak do you misplace a claymore?!
Two ways -
One, you dig a hole and plan to come back in 6 months.
Two, you throw it over the fence to your “friend” waiting on the other side.
| 127 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:12:26pm |
re: #121 Dark_Falcon
Yikes. those are quite nasty. Normally, they’re armed to blow if someone hits their tripwire. They are brutally effective anti-personnel weapons, and i hope it does not fall into the wrong hands. A terrorist or militia type would love a weapon like that for all the wrong reasons.
I agree with you, I just can’t see terrorists getting into the area where they have the live training exercises. There has gotta be better places to steal from.
Or make your own.
| 128 |
Gus Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:13:49pm |
In other news. Overcast and cool (almost cold) outside. My eye hurts. And I can’t seem to stop eating.
| 129 |
Targetpractice Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:14:10pm |
re: #126 wlewisiii
Two ways -
One, you dig a hole and plan to come back in 6 months.
Two, you throw it over the fence to your “friend” waiting on the other side.
Oddly enough, I could actually see those scenarios happening.
| 130 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:15:00pm |
| 132 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:19:57pm |
re: #129 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Oddly enough, I could actually see those scenarios happening.
Used to happen every once in awhile when I was stationed in Europe. Usually small arms & usually a real misplacing but occasionally some young idiot would get a 20 year vacation in the stockade for one of those scenarios. This was in the early ’80s and there were still various red army factions floating around.
| 133 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:20:07pm |
re: #123 Obdicut
Someone steals it.
Even in our fairly well-regulated Army, the amount of munitions that goes missing is astounding. A few million rounds of small arms ammo was ‘misplaced’ at Ft Knox years ago, and disasters at contractor recycling yards, involving ‘de-milled’ explosives, are chronic. Large range complexed are littered with discarded rounds, not to mention misfires.
| 134 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:20:26pm |
Oh and get this— they’re not prosecuting any of the big fish in the mortgage schemes, but they are prosecuting someone who lied on his mortgage applications— with the knowledge of the mortgage broker.
[Link: www.nytimes.com…]
Wait, it gets better: The mortage broker is getting a reduced sentence for informing on this dude. Even though the mortage broker is the one who forged information.
The monthly income listed on the second loan was $32,500, an obviously absurd amount, especially since the loan itself was for only $300,000. It was a refinance of a property Mr. Engle already owned, allowing him to pull out $80,000 of the $215,000 in equity he had in the property.
Mr. Engle claims that he never saw that $32,500 claim and never signed the papers. Indeed, a handwriting analysis conducted by the government raised the distinct possibility that Mr. Engle’s signature and his initials in several places in the mortgage documents had been forged.
As it happens, Mr. Engle’s broker for that loan, John J. Hellman, recently pleaded guilty to mortgage fraud for playing fast and loose with a number of mortgage applications. Mr. Hellman testified in court that Mr. Engle had signed the mortgage application. Early this week, Mr. Hellman received a reduced sentence of 10 months, less than half of Mr. Engle’s sentence, in no small part because of his willingness to testify against Mr. Engle.
| 135 |
Gus Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:22:20pm |
re: #134 Obdicut
Oh and get this— they’re not prosecuting any of the big fish in the mortgage schemes, but they are prosecuting someone who lied on his mortgage applications— with the knowledge of the mortgage broker.
[Link: www.nytimes.com…]
Wait, it gets better: The mortage broker is getting a reduced sentence for informing on this dude. Even though the mortage broker is the one who forged information.
The monthly income listed on the second loan was $32,500, an obviously absurd amount, especially since the loan itself was for only $300,000. It was a refinance of a property Mr. Engle already owned, allowing him to pull out $80,000 of the $215,000 in equity he had in the property.
Pathetic. Outrageous. Excuse me while I punch a hole through the exterior wall. Justice in this country is a complete forking joke.
| 136 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:24:07pm |
re: #134 Obdicut
A buttload of bad actors were out there on this one.
| 137 |
Targetpractice Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:25:57pm |
re: #134 Obdicut
Oh and get this— they’re not prosecuting any of the big fish in the mortgage schemes, but they are prosecuting someone who lied on his mortgage applications— with the knowledge of the mortgage broker.
[Link: www.nytimes.com…]
Wait, it gets better: The mortage broker is getting a reduced sentence for informing on this dude. Even though the mortage broker is the one who forged information.
The monthly income listed on the second loan was $32,500, an obviously absurd amount, especially since the loan itself was for only $300,000. It was a refinance of a property Mr. Engle already owned, allowing him to pull out $80,000 of the $215,000 in equity he had in the property.
*deadpan* My, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside knowing that my elected representatives are hard at work making sure that those responsible for the economic meltdown are brought to justice and made to pay.
| 138 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:26:53pm |
re: #133 Decatur Deb
Even in our fairly well-regulated Army, the amount of munitions that goes missing is astounding. A few million rounds of small arms ammo was ‘misplaced’ at Ft Knox years ago, and disasters at contractor recycling yards, involving ‘de-milled’ explosives, are chronic. Large range complexed are littered with discarded rounds, not to mention misfires.
When there’s that many rounds in play, someone is bound to try something stupid. And there’ll be people who’ll pay him well if he actually gets the goods. Military 7.62 AP rounds would fetch a hefty price from the cartels, since that would let them kill soldiers and police more easily.
| 139 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:29:32pm |
I will also cause further outrage by saying that I wouldn’t be surprised if Rather knew his cameraman was on a watchlist and wouldn’t be allowed past the checkpoint. Manufacture a nice little incident for the cameras. It’s not like he hasn’t manufactured fake stories before.
Also the extra bitching got him a lot of free publicity from the website he now works for that nobody has ever heard of before.
| 140 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:31:55pm |
re: #138 Dark_Falcon
When there’s that many rounds in play, someone is bound to try something stupid. And there’ll be people who’ll pay him well if he actually gets the goods. Military 7.62 AP rounds would fetch a hefty price from the cartels, since that would let them kill soldiers and police more easily.
The Knox story is quite old, and I’m plowing through Google for it. In that case much of the stolen ammo (.45 IIRC) wound up innocently or not at the Louisville police dept. it was something of a scandal at the time.
| 141 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:34:49pm |
re: #139 Killgore Trout
I will also cause further outrage by saying that I wouldn’t be surprised if Rather knew his cameraman was on a watchlist and wouldn’t be allowed past the checkpoint. Manufacture a nice little incident for the cameras. It’s not like he hasn’t manufactured fake stories before.
Also the extra bitching got him a lot of free publicity from the website he now works for that nobody has ever heard of before.
Mandatory for Dan Rather threads:
| 142 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:35:32pm |
re: #140 Decatur Deb
The Knox story is quite old, and I’m plowing through Google for it. In that case much of the stolen ammo (.45 IIRC) wound up innocently or not at the Louisville police dept. it was something of a scandal at the time.
Glad to hear that.
| 143 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:38:32pm |
re: #142 Dark_Falcon
Glad to hear that.
/ What if it was found on a police officer with a concealed gun, who was drinking in a bar.
| 144 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:39:57pm |
re: #142 Dark_Falcon
Glad to hear that.
Digging the Knox ammo story has been very difficult because my Google terms return a staggering number of hits on two insane stories: 1) There is no gold at Ft. Knox, just (sometimes) plated lead or tungsten bars or 2) Ft. Knox is one of the training centers for the coming Army sweeps against the Tea Parties. The sickness is deeper and wider than I had feared.
| 145 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:42:53pm |
Evening lizards!
Dan Rather has hit the news today? Was he caught carrying any more fake military files?
| 146 |
Targetpractice Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:45:36pm |
re: #145 NJDhockeyfan
Evening lizards!
Dan Rather has hit the news today? Was he caught carrying any more fake military files?
He finally released the frequency.
/
| 147 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:46:35pm |
re: #146 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
He finally released the frequency.
/
Good for Kenneth!
| 148 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:47:06pm |
re: #144 Decatur Deb
Digging the Knox ammo story has been very difficult because my Google terms return a staggering number of hits on two insane stories: 1) There is no gold at Ft. Knox, just (sometimes) plated lead or tungsten bars or 2) Ft. Knox is one of the training centers for the coming Army sweeps against the Tea Parties. The sickness is deeper and wider than I had feared.
Bad Craziness has a way of filtering in and making other things crappy.
| 149 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:49:02pm |
| 150 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:50:04pm |
re: #70 ozbloke
Oh you Ameri’s say stuff like this all the time.
I may adopt that. Next time someone starts in on “Americans are soo…”, I say, politely, “Oh, we prefer ‘Ameri’. Did you not know that?”
| 151 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:51:06pm |
I’m going to present this next City Journal story without comment. Please read it and let me know what you think:
Exposing the Elites by Michael Knox Beran
In 1997 George Soros, writing in The Atlantic, declared: “The main enemy of the open society, I believe, is no longer the communist but the capitalist threat.”
The words marked the beginning of a decade and a half of plutocratic progressivism. In July 2003, AFL-CIO political director Steven Rosenthal conferred with some of America’s richest tycoons at El Mirador, Soros’s estate in Southampton, to figure out how to defeat George W. Bush. In August 2004, the president of the Service Employees International Union, Andy Stern—the “most important labor boss in America”—traveled to Aspen to plot strategy in a moneyed conclave that included savings and loan moguls Herbert and Marion Sandler, Progressive Insurance founder Peter Lewis, and businessman John Sperling. Warren Buffett, de facto chairman of the country’s billionaires’ club, endorsed the candidacy of presidential aspirant Barack Obama, while the Democracy Alliance, which Matthew Vadum and James Dellinger dub “Billionaires for Big Government,” bankrolled progressive groups like ACORN and the Center for American Progress.
Is there something novel in these alliances which, Demos scholar David Callahan observes, have brought some of the nation’s most notable elites together during the last decade to make common cause with some of the country’s most progressive leaders? Hardly: pacts between munificent plutocrats and progressive reformers are one of the oldest tricks in oligarchy’s playbook.
More than a century and a half ago, Benjamin Disraeli, affecting to believe that Britain’s Tory elite was “the really democratic party of England,” showed that the well-to-do could more easily maintain their ascendancy if they became paternalist champions of working people. By adopting socially progressive policies, they could “dish the Whigs” and stave off free-market reformers like Richard Cobden and John Bright. In a no less duplicitous spirit, Otto von Bismarck invited Ferdinand Lassalle, founder of the General Union of German Workers, to the Wilhelmstrasse, where the two explored an alliance between Bismarck’s Junker ministry and the working classes. Bismarck did not “promote social reform out of love for the German workers,” historian A. J. P. Taylor wrote. Following, by turns, Marx and Metternich, Bismarck sought to make workers “more subservient” to the Junker-dominated state.
Elites who seek alliances with progressive tribunes are not always feudal aristocrats (like Bismarck) or feudal retainers (like Disraeli). They may, like the Roosevelts, be high bourgeois who have succumbed to the Medici Syndrome. Abandoning, as the Medici did, the tradition of their forebears, who were proud of their market squares, the high bourgeois find commerce vulgar and ape the manners of the nobility.
| 153 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:52:27pm |
re: #150 SanFranciscoZionist
I may adopt that. Next time someone starts in on “Americans are soo…”, I say, politely, “Oh, we prefer ‘Ameri’. Did you not know that?”
Thanks SFZ,
Oh you Ameri’s say stuff like this all the time.
I got in a generalization at the same time, you are welcome to use it.
| 154 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:53:57pm |
re: #71 Dark_Falcon
Sadly, yes, it is. Young Palestinian men are thoroughly indoctrinated in a death cult the preaches hatred for and murder of Jews. Given that indoctrination, any young Palestinian male must be considered suspect.
I’m going to revise that. There is an intensifying conflict going on in the area. Young Palestinian men justly should not all be suspect by Israelis, but I am not going to assume that his ethnicity or nationality was the primary reason for blocking this guy (which may or may not have been necessary) (and who probably isn’t that young if he’s a veteran cameraman) until I see more information.
| 155 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:55:54pm |
re: #154 SanFranciscoZionist
I’m going to revise that. There is an intensifying conflict going on in the area. Young Palestinian men justly should not all be suspect by Israelis, but I am not going to assume that his ethnicity or nationality was the primary reason for blocking this guy (which may or may not have been necessary) (and who probably isn’t that young if he’s a veteran cameraman) until I see more information.
I’ll except that revision, provided that my point on indoctrination stands.
| 156 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:57:38pm |
I’ve been working in a part of Charlottesville I never been to before. This is a small town but since I moved down here in 1990 from Ct, I seemed to have missed a little historical neighborhood with beautiful houses and wonderful people who live there. It’s been a great week.
:)
| 157 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:58:07pm |
re: #151 Dark_Falcon
I’m going to present this next City Journal story without comment. Please read it and let me know what you think:
Exposing the Elites by Michael Knox Beran
More Manhattan Institute / National Review right wing drivel.
| 158 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 6:59:44pm |
re: #86 Dark_Falcon
You can get to know a person and then take then on their merits. But if you’re in charge of security, you need to know who’s likely to be a risk. And Palestinians pose a higher than normal risk, due to indoctrination. It’s about culture, not about race.
It’s about national conflict, carried out over a long time in a small space.
BTW, were the crew who were strip-searched Palestinian? So far, that descriptor seems to go to only one person.
| 159 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:00:05pm |
re: #156 NJDhockeyfan
I’ve been working in a part of Charlottesville I never been to before. This is a small town but since I moved down here in 1990 from Ct, I seemed to have missed a little historical neighborhood with beautiful houses and wonderful people who live there. It’s been a great week.
:)
/ Great, now they are all going to have to move.
Got a street name in this area, I’d like to street view it, fan of American architecture.
| 160 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:01:04pm |
re: #158 SanFranciscoZionist
It’s about national conflict, carried out over a long time in a small space.
BTW, were the crew who were strip-searched Palestinian? So far, that descriptor seems to go to only one person.
it’s HIM!
GET EM!
| 161 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:01:26pm |
re: #97 recusancy
What if there wasn’t a good reason?
If there wasn’t a good reason, then someone in the security chain of command screwed up, or the policy he or she acted on is a bad policy.
| 162 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:02:05pm |
re: #159 ozbloke
/ Great, now they are all going to have to move.
Got a street name in this area, I’d like to street view it, fan of American architecture.
wanna see my bunkhouse?….it’s a classic
| 163 |
Interesting Times Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:02:24pm |
re: #151 Dark_Falcon
I’m going to present this next City Journal story without comment. Please read it and let me know what you think:
Exposing the Elites by Michael Knox Beran
Shorter version:
Rich people who show empathy for the middle class are seekrit commie socialists!!!1!! Real AmericansTM like the Koch brothers are your rightful masters. Derp.
| 164 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:03:13pm |
re: #138 Dark_Falcon
When there’s that many rounds in play, someone is bound to try something stupid. And there’ll be people who’ll pay him well if he actually gets the goods. Military 7.62 AP rounds would fetch a hefty price from the cartels, since that would let them kill soldiers and police more easily.
Just for curiosity here is a link to an EPA report—the amount of UXO explosives coming out of bases triggered an environmental issue.
| 165 |
okonkolo Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:03:17pm |
Charles, if you dig some muscular left-hand ostinato and ridiculous right-hand independence, Latin jazz pianist Eddie Palmieri is amazing. I recently saw Japanese pianist Hiromi with Stanley clarke and she had a couple of barn burning, laugh out loud solos. Her solo stuff on Youtube is beautiful and jaw dropping.
| 166 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:04:12pm |
re: #157 recusancy
More Manhattan Institute / National Review right wing drivel.
I presented it without comment precisely because I wasn’t sure what to make of it. If you downdinged the post because you didn’t like the article, fine. Just don’t think my posting of it was an endorsement. And I happen to think that Nation Review and the Manhattan Institute are first-rate organizations.
| 167 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:04:12pm |
re: #159 ozbloke
/ Great, now they are all going to have to move.
Got a street name in this area, I’d like to street view it, fan of American architecture.
It’s the Fry’s Spring area of Charlottesville. Most of the streets are named after people who made up the history of that neighborhood.
Here is the history of that area. (.pdf file)
Fry’s Spring is arguably Charlottesville’s first suburban development. Although the earliest dwellings date from the last decade of the 19th century, its identification as a significant landmark area for both Charlottesville and neighboring Albemarle County reaches back far earlier. In 1817, Nelson Barksdale conveyed 305 acres in the vicinity of Charlottesville to James Francis (Frank) Fry, his son-in-law and grandson of Joshua Fry. This parcel incorporated the spring that gives the area its name.1 Joshua Fry (d. 1754) partnered with Peter Jefferson to produce one of the most valuable maps of early Albemarle County in the 18th century. The Barksdale name appears throughout Albemarle’s 19th- and early-20th-century records, with John Barksdale listed as a resident on Fry’s Spring Road in the 1920 census and the name “Barksdale” penciled in on the 1920 Sanborn Insurance map. This would have been referring to his widow, Dolly Barksdale, who appears in the Land Tax records as the owner in 1920. This is the present-day 2209 Jefferson Park Avenue [104-5084-0004] that evidence suggests was constructed ca. 1900.
[snip]
| 168 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:04:17pm |
re: #106 darthstar
To assume that there was a good reason to stop Dan Rather’s cameraman or whatever he was is to assume that Palestinians are suspect based on their race. To question the isolated situation doesn’t make a general statement about Israelis as a whole, but simply points to some of the problems of hyper-sensitive security procedures…there really is no good way to look at it.
Disagree, or, flip it, to assume that there was no good reason to stop Dan Rather’s cameraman is to assume that Israelis are suspect, based on their oft-asserted racism.
It’s OK to question the situation. It may have been a total fuck-up. But we have relatively little information, and now everyone is filling in the blanks with their preferred narrative, and giving everyone who picks a different one the stink-eye. Myself included.
| 169 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:06:16pm |
| 170 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:07:20pm |
re: #168 SanFranciscoZionist
Disagree, or, flip it, to assume that there was no good reason to stop Dan Rather’s cameraman is to assume that Israelis are suspect, based on their oft-asserted racism.
It’s OK to question the situation. It may have been a total fuck-up. But we have relatively little information, and now everyone is filling in the blanks with their preferred narrative, and giving everyone who picks a different one the stink-eye. Myself included.
I consider it such a non event that it’s not even news worthy…KT said it earlier, hang out with Rather and you might become a liability…big whoop
| 171 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:07:51pm |
re: #168 SanFranciscoZionist
Disagree, or, flip it, to assume that there was no good reason to stop Dan Rather’s cameraman is to assume that Israelis are suspect, based on their oft-asserted racism.
It’s OK to question the situation. It may have been a total fuck-up. But we have relatively little information, and now everyone is filling in the blanks with their preferred narrative, and giving everyone who picks a different one the stink-eye. Myself included.
Like Darth said, its an emotionally charged issue.
| 172 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:07:52pm |
| 173 |
Interesting Times Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:09:29pm |
re: #166 Dark_Falcon
I presented it without comment precisely because I wasn’t sure what to make of it.
…which is why I didn’t downding your post, no matter how repugnant I found the article. It read like an abusive spouse telling his wife that he’s the one who genuinely loves her, while all those nasty friends/family telling her to leave are the real bad guys.
| 174 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:09:37pm |
re: #167 NJDhockeyfan
It’s the Fry’s Spring area of Charlottesville. Most of the streets are named after people who made up the history of that neighborhood.
I just dropped in on Jefferson Park Ave, some great houses, thanks.
| 175 |
jaunte Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:11:20pm |
re: #166 Dark_Falcon
I don’t think the author makes his point, unless the reader is unwilling to ignore a lot of history. It’s just not true that the examples he gives provided charity free of ‘social control’.
Where the remedial agencies of the social state have abridged freedom in the name of social control, the old market sanctuaries relied on uncoerced efforts to relieve suffering. Such voluntary associations as the confraternity and the sodality, the almonry and the charité, tended the strayed “lambs” of the community—and did so in ages much poorer in material wealth than our own.
| 176 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:11:51pm |
| 177 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:11:55pm |
re: #151 Dark_Falcon
I’m going to present this next City Journal story without comment. Please read it and let me know what you think:
Exposing the Elites by Michael Knox Beran
Mommy, make the bad man stop thinking differently from us!!!!
| 178 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:13:59pm |
re: #173 publicityStunted
…which is why I didn’t downding your post, no matter how repugnant I found the article. It read like an abusive spouse telling his wife that he’s the one who genuinely loves her, while all those nasty friends/family telling her to leave are the real bad guys.
How so?
| 179 |
Lidane Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:14:16pm |
re: #157 recusancy
More Manhattan Institute / National Review right wing drivel.
You’re being far too kind. It’s garbage that’s not worth the energy that was wasted to put it online.
| 180 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:14:19pm |
re: #176 ozbloke
Thats great albusteve, when was it built roughly?
don’t know…I pulled it from google images for a spoof…were you spoofed?
| 181 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:16:43pm |
re: #180 albusteve
don’t know…I pulled it from google images for a spoof…were you spoofed?
Yes, I’m a trusting soul.
The Jolly Rodger flag should have been a clue, your posts are not often jolly.
| 182 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:18:05pm |
re: #174 ozbloke
I just dropped in on Jefferson Park Ave, some great houses, thanks.
Jefferson Park Ave used to have trolleys running up and down the road.
I was at this house this afternoon. I think it’s one of the original 5 houses in the neighborhood. I am told rich people from the city built houses out in the woods near the natural springs (I don’t know if they are still there) and vacationed there at times. I was inside one of them the other day. Some of the houses are just jaw dropping amazing. So far I’ve just walked around in the area of the smaller houses. The million dollar houses are a few streets away. I plan to hit them next week.
| 183 |
HoosierHoops Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:18:56pm |
re: #180 albusteve
don’t know…I pulled it from google images for a spoof…were you spoofed?
Thank the lawd..I have a fishing cabin that looks like a Saddam Hussein Palace compared to that POS..
Glad you don’t live there.. LOL
| 184 |
McSpiff Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:19:23pm |
re: #182 NJDhockeyfan
Jefferson Park Ave used to have trolleys running up and down the road.
I was at this house this afternoon. I think it’s one of the original 5 houses in the neighborhood. I am told rich people from the city built houses out in the woods near the natural springs (I don’t know if they are still there) and vacationed there at times. I was inside one of them the other day. Some of the houses are just jaw dropping amazing. So far I’ve just walked around in the area of the smaller houses. The million dollar houses are a few streets away. I plan to hit them next week.
You should see them during the day without a ski mask on!
////
| 185 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:20:25pm |
re: #184 McSpiff
You should see them during the day without a ski mask on!
///
Night vision goggle make everything look green.
| 186 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:21:03pm |
re: #182 NJDhockeyfan
Jefferson Park Ave used to have trolleys running up and down the road.
I was at this house this afternoon
Fantastic, thanks.
| 187 |
Interesting Times Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:21:57pm |
re: #178 Dark_Falcon
How so?
He’s basically saying that wealthy people who show sympathy for the middle class, and advocate on their behalf, have a secret agenda to hurt and control them, when in reality, that agenda is coming from the corporatists (e.g. Koch brothers, Massey Energy CEO, and other Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire wannabes).
It’s a very common manipulative trick of abusers and con artists - convince your victim that you’re the one looking out for their best interests, while the people offering genuine help are the enemy. And sadly, it works.
| 188 |
Lidane Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:22:07pm |
Ugh. A winger friend of mine is still flogging the dead horse that is ACORN. Old talking points are old.
| 189 |
Targetpractice Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:22:58pm |
re: #187 publicityStunted
He’s basically saying that wealthy people who show sympathy for the middle class, and advocate on their behalf, have a secret agenda to hurt and control them, when in reality, that agenda is coming from the corporatists (e.g. Koch brothers, Massey Energy CEO, and other Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire wannabes).
It’s a very common manipulative trick of abusers and con artists - convince your victim that you’re the one looking out for their best interests, while the people offering genuine help are the enemy. And sadly, it works.
“Why would he want to help you? What have you got to offer him? Think about it, then you’ll see that I’m the only one that can protect you.”
| 190 |
Lidane Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:23:52pm |
re: #187 publicityStunted
It’s a very common manipulative trick of abusers and con artists - convince your victim that you’re the one looking out for their best interests, while the people offering genuine help are the enemy. And sadly, it works.
Yep. Fox News and the right wing howler monkeys on talk radio are also proof of that. So is the modern GOP, since they’ve convinced millions of people who earn under $250k a year to vote against their own interests.
| 191 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:24:04pm |
re: #187 publicityStunted
He’s basically saying that wealthy people who show sympathy for the middle class, and advocate on their behalf, have a secret agenda to hurt and control them, when in reality, that agenda is coming from the corporatists (e.g. Koch brothers, Massey Energy CEO, and other Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire wannabes).
It’s a very common manipulative trick of abusers and con artists - convince your victim that you’re the one looking out for their best interests, while the people offering genuine help are the enemy. And sadly, it works.
And he seems to think if we just had an “agora” style public square the free market could reign supreme and we’d all be compassionate towards eachother.
| 192 |
Kragar Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:24:11pm |
Ah Fox news, fair and balanced
Why Are the Media Ignoring Plans By George Soros to Remake the Entire Global Economy?
| 193 |
jaunte Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:25:19pm |
re: #187 publicityStunted
Wouldn’t you rather have charity from a warm unspecified sodality than that cold, legally provided state-sponsored assistance?
| 194 |
Lidane Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:26:03pm |
re: #192 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
1. SOROS!
2. ???
3. THE END OF THE WORLD ZOMG!
| 195 |
Targetpractice Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:26:16pm |
re: #192 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Ah Fox news, fair and balanced
Why Are the Media Ignoring Plans By George Soros to Remake the Entire Global Economy?
Are you sure they didn’t just steal that headline from Alex Jones? Or The Onion?
| 196 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:26:56pm |
re: #192 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Ah Fox news, fair and balanced
Why Are the Media Ignoring Plans By George Soros to Remake the Entire Global Economy?
Uh…that’s the opinion page. There’s just as much idiocy posted at all the other news websites at the opinion page section.
| 197 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:27:05pm |
re: #187 publicityStunted
He’s basically saying that wealthy people who show sympathy for the middle class, and advocate on their behalf, have a secret agenda to hurt and control them, when in reality, that agenda is coming from the corporatists (e.g. Koch brothers, Massey Energy CEO, and other Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire wannabes).
It’s a very common manipulative trick of abusers and con artists - convince your victim that you’re the one looking out for their best interests, while the people offering genuine help are the enemy. And sadly, it works.
I certainly think the idea of misplaced and erroneous ‘compassion’ is a major issue for the left. But I’ve never ascribed it to conspiracy, and the fact that Beran seemed to do that made me somewhat wary. Thus I referred it here, trying to see get a second opinion.
| 198 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:27:54pm |
re: #197 Dark_Falcon
I certainly think the idea of misplaced and erroneous ‘compassion’ is a major issue for the left.
Please elaborate.
| 199 |
Lidane Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:28:35pm |
re: #197 Dark_Falcon
You seem to be confusing compassion for others with being a doormat. They’re not the same thing at all.
| 200 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:29:32pm |
re: #186 ozbloke
Fantastic, thanks.
Too bad those street views aren’t live. JPA is a very popular street for the college student joggers.
| 201 |
Kragar Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:29:55pm |
I like the “WHY ARE YOU IGNORING WHAT WE’VE BEEN SCREAMING CONSTANTLY?” angle.
| 202 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:30:19pm |
re: #199 Lidane
You seem to be confusing compassion for others with being a doormat. They’re not the same thing at all.
I think he’s talking about handouts when at times, handups are more appropriate.
| 203 |
Kragar Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:30:57pm |
re: #196 NJDhockeyfan
Uh…that’s the opinion page. There’s just as much idiocy posted at all the other news websites at the opinion page section.
The guy is a regular columnist for Fox.
| 204 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:31:41pm |
re: #200 NJDhockeyfan
Too bad those street views aren’t live. JPA is a very popular street for the college student joggers.
/ Well yes, best to keep an eye on them, to keep them safe.
| 205 |
Lidane Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:32:26pm |
re: #202 researchok
I think he’s talking about handouts when at times, handups are more appropriate.
I don’t know anyone on the left, short of a few crunchy granola moonbat hippie types, that simply give away everything without expecting something in return. Even liberals see the value in teaching people to support themselves and in helping them up out of poverty.
| 206 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:32:39pm |
well if it’s idiotic, written by a nutter, it will certainly be taken most serious here
| 207 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:33:03pm |
re: #204 ozbloke
/ Well yes, best to keep an eye on them, to keep them safe.
I make sure to stop and let them jog by. I don’t want to have an accident ya know.
| 208 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:34:42pm |
re: #205 Lidane
I don’t know anyone on the left, short of a few crunchy granola moonbat hippie types, that simply give away everything without expecting something in return. Even liberals see the value in teaching people to support themselves and in helping them up out of poverty.
I don’t disagree.
It does be remembering that compassion is part of the human condition. It is not a political expression notwithstanding those who want to make it just that.
| 209 |
jaunte Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:35:23pm |
re: #206 albusteve
Nutter? Here ya go:
Camping, 89, believes the Bible essentially functions as a cosmic calendar explaining exactly when various prophecies will be fulfilled.The retired civil engineer said all his calculations come from close readings of the Bible, but that external events like the foundation of the state of Israel in 1948 are signs confirming the date.
“Beyond the shadow of a doubt, May 21 will be the date of the Rapture and the day of judgment,” he said. [Link: news.yahoo.com…]
| 210 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:35:57pm |
Michael Knox Beran is also a Palinite: [Link: www.nationalreview.com…]
| 211 |
Kragar Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:36:31pm |
| 212 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:37:36pm |
re: #198 recusancy
Please elaborate.
Programs designed to help that either don’t work or make things worse. An example, also from City Journal but from a better source therein:
by Theodore Dalrymple
| 213 |
Lidane Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:40:46pm |
re: #212 Dark_Falcon
Shorter version: The poor and the addicted are starving, but finding a way to help them feed themselves or increase their general well-being is evil and just adds pointless government.
Does that about sum it up?
| 214 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:41:33pm |
re: #212 Dark_Falcon
Programs designed to help that either don’t work or make things worse. An example, also from City Journal but from a better source therein:
by Theodore Dalrymple
the vitamin deficient group can always use the Twinkie defense
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
| 215 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:42:50pm |
re: #213 Lidane
Shorter version: The poor and the addicted are starving, but finding a way to help them feed themselves or increase their general well-being is evil and just adds pointless government.
Does that about sum it up?
No, not so much. Dalrymple, real name Anthony Daniels, is English and he’s no wingnut. Give it a read; Even if you don’t agree with it, you’ll agree he’s no loon.
| 216 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:43:37pm |
re: #204 ozbloke
/ Well yes, best to keep an eye on them, to keep them safe.
Here’s the history page for the Fry’s Spring Beach Club. I like this part:
…Immediately adjacent to the property was The Jefferson Park Hotel, built in 1892. The hotel served as a resort and spa for those who came to relax and recover from various ailments. The waters of the spring were promoted as “the third most powerful of their kind in the world.” A small railroad serving the hotel, known as the “dummy-line”, wound through what is now Forest Hills and Johnson Village, and a steam locomotive carried spa-goers from the West Main train station to the hotel. Wonderland, a menagerie, was also on the site. In 1910 The Jefferson Park Hotel burned down. Salvaged building materials were then used in the construction of several near-by homes. The local trolley company bought the land and expanded the Wonderland offerings to include the first moving picture shows in Charlottesville, among other attractions.
…
I love walking around historic areas.
| 217 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:44:16pm |
re: #215 Dark_Falcon
No, not so much. Dalrymple, real name Anthony Daniels, is English and he’s no wingnut. Give it a read; Even if you don’t agree with it, you’ll agree he’s no loon.
You forgot that Anthony Daniels is Anthony Daniels, MD.
| 218 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:45:37pm |
re: #216 NJDhockeyfan
There’s a street in Boise that we used to drive down whenever we visited my husband’s grandfather. It was amazing, and I was stunned at the architecture in Boise.
Then we took a tour of Boise to give the kids something to do. Guess what? We had been driving down the street with the architectural gems of Boise.
Warm Springs.
| 219 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:45:44pm |
re: #216 NJDhockeyfan
Here’s the history page for the Fry’s Spring Beach Club. I like this part:
I love walking around historic areas.
ever been to Charleston?
| 220 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:45:50pm |
re: #217 EmmmieG
You forgot that Anthony Daniels is Anthony Daniels, MD.
No, I didn’t forget. I just didn’t say it. I wanted her to read the article and find out for herself. But it is relevant.
| 221 |
jaunte Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:46:55pm |
re: #215 Dark_Falcon
The liberal intelligentsia has several reasons for failing to see or admit the cultural dimension of malnutrition in the midst of plenty—in failing to see its connection with an entire way of life—and in throwing the blame instead onto the supermarket chains. One reason is to avoid confronting the human consequences of the changes in morals, manners, and social policy that it has consistently advocated.
I think Dalrymple is simply advocating in favor of socially conservative ‘morals, manners and social policy’ without considering how those policies also failed to help ‘malnutrition in the midst of plenty’ in his own country’s history.
| 222 |
Usually refered to as anyways Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:47:12pm |
re: #216 NJDhockeyfan
Here’s the history page for the Fry’s Spring Beach Club. I like this part:
I love walking around historic areas.
I love old things, homes, buildings, antiques and people.
Australia is a young country, we do have some great architecture, but not like other countries.
| 223 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:47:18pm |
re: #212 Dark_Falcon
Programs designed to help that either don’t work or make things worse. An example, also from City Journal but from a better source therein:
by Theodore Dalrymple
He’s no loon. But he doesn’t offer a solution. He says it’s a problem of culture. I and I think most American liberals would agree. Why do you think Michelle Obama is doing what she’s doing with gardening and eating right? Dalrymple’s complaints are against British culture. Can you point to something American to make your point?
| 224 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:47:29pm |
| 225 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:48:57pm |
Meals here were solitary, poor, nasty, British, and short.
That’s a great line.
| 226 |
Lidane Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:49:52pm |
re: #215 Dark_Falcon
No, not so much. Dalrymple, real name Anthony Daniels, is English and he’s no wingnut. Give it a read; Even if you don’t agree with it, you’ll agree he’s no loon.
I’m reading it and I’m not understanding his point. So far, he’s stating the obvious— that young people raised in troubled, violent homes by neglectful parents and who never have any sort of real connection to the world around them will eventually turn to crime. They’re also malnourished because they never had any connection with food apart from just eating whatever was around.
The rest of this article is him patting himself on the back for figuring that out, but he doesn’t offer a solution or anything of value beyond that. What the hell am I supposed to get out of this article again?
| 227 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:50:13pm |
re: #224 NJDhockeyfan
No but I would like to visit.
awesome homes and other stuff…our little historic Las Vegas NM has 900 structures on the Historical Regsitry…there is stuff all over the country that would blow you away…Eureka Springs is another town worth visiting
| 228 |
jaunte Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:51:05pm |
re: #227 albusteve
Charleston is amazing. You could spend months in the historic district there without seeing it all.
| 229 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:51:41pm |
re: #226 Lidane
I’m reading it and I’m not understanding his point. So far, he’s stating the obvious— that young people raised in troubled, violent homes by neglectful parents and who never have any sort of real connection to the world around them will eventually turn to crime. They’re also malnourished because they never had any connection with food apart from just eating whatever was around.
The rest of this article is him patting himself on the back for figuring that out, but he doesn’t offer a solution or anything of value beyond that. What the hell am I supposed to get out of this article again?
You missed the first part? When they fed vitamins to one group of criminals, and placebos to another, the vitamin group behaved better.
Nutrition could have a real effect on human lives. The malnutrition is not aside from the impoverished life, it was part of it.
| 230 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:52:15pm |
re: #228 jaunte
Charleston is amazing. You could spend months in the historic district there without seeing it all.
yup, with a skyline almost entirely unchanged since pre civil war times….a national treasure
| 231 |
jaunte Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:53:08pm |
re: #226 Lidane
Dalrymple wrote the piece to criticize that stuff I bolded up in 221.
| 232 |
Lidane Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:53:54pm |
re: #229 EmmmieG
No, I read that. I’m just not getting how this is a bad thing.
Fixing poverty and malnutrition — that is, feeding people, and giving them the tools to support themselves and get out of the misery they’re in — reduces crime.
He just discovered that now? Really?
| 233 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:54:13pm |
Dalrymple/Daniels point is more sublime.
He is advocating accountability as a fundamental pillar of human behavior (I’m not so sure the cultural difference between America and the UK is so germane in this instance).
When things go wrong, we look to root causes as an excuse for the misbehavior. Interestingly, there is never a discussion of root causes of good behavior.
In fact, some people make immoral choices. It is as simple as that.
There are conservative hypocrites and there are liberal hypocrites- both the result of choices.
| 234 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:55:40pm |
re: #227 albusteve
awesome homes and other stuff…our little historic Las Vegas NM has 900 structures on the Historical Regsitry…there is stuff all over the country that would blow you away…Eureka Springs is another town worth visiting
I’m from NJ. My mom lives int he house she grew up in in Springfield. All over that area are incredible old houses and buildings. There was even a little historic battle there right down the street from her house.
The Battle of Springfield
| 235 |
Lidane Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:55:47pm |
re: #233 researchok
Pfft. As if the American political system gives a shit about root causes. We just build more prisons. =P
| 236 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:56:18pm |
re: #226 Lidane
I’m reading it and I’m not understanding his point. So far, he’s stating the obvious— that young people raised in troubled, violent homes by neglectful parents and who never have any sort of real connection to the world around them will eventually turn to crime. They’re also malnourished because they never had any connection with food apart from just eating whatever was around.
The rest of this article is him patting himself on the back for figuring that out, but he doesn’t offer a solution or anything of value beyond that. What the hell am I supposed to get out of this article again?
He’s trying to make the point that the idea of ‘food deserts’ is bunk and what is really needed is cultural change. As for how to effect that change, I think he knows that can’t happen quickly. Better habits have to be promoted. I myself would argue for policies that are more pro-family and ‘do good by doing right by others’ rather than ‘It’s all about me!”.
Note: “Pro-family” should not be read to imply policies aimed at keeping women at home or outlawing abortion. Not when I say it.
| 237 |
Lidane Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:56:48pm |
OK. Back later. I have a poker tournament on XBox Live that’s about to start.
Later, Lizards! :)
| 238 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:56:56pm |
re: #233 researchok
Dalrymple/Daniels point is more sublime.
He is advocating accountability as a fundamental pillar of human behavior (I’m not so sure the cultural difference between America and the UK is so germane in this instance).
When things go wrong, we look to root causes as an excuse for the misbehavior. Interestingly, there is never a discussion of root causes of good behavior.
In fact, some people make immoral choices. It is as simple as that.
There are conservative hypocrites and there are liberal hypocrites- both the result of choices.
Or maybe he’s just rooting for the good old fashioned family dinner.
Which is both a symptom of a healthy family and a cause.
Have you ever seen what the Hispanics buy for their groceries? It embarrasses me, because I look at my cart and cringe. The ones I see have about 8 different vegetables, none of which are potatoes.
| 239 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:57:34pm |
re: #233 researchok
Dalrymple/Daniels point is more sublime.
He is advocating accountability as a fundamental pillar of human behavior (I’m not so sure the cultural difference between America and the UK is so germane in this instance).
When things go wrong, we look to root causes as an excuse for the misbehavior. Interestingly, there is never a discussion of root causes of good behavior.
In fact, some people make immoral choices. It is as simple as that.
There are conservative hypocrites and there are liberal hypocrites- both the result of choices.
In my most humble opinion, it all springs from economics, or the lack thereof. Poverty breeds all sorts of nasty things, lack of education at the top, dysfunctional families, crime, substance abuse, etc.
| 240 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:58:08pm |
re: #235 Lidane
Pfft. As if the American political system gives a shit about root causes. We just build more prisons. =P
That’s a separate issue.
There is a huge segment of the left who forgive terrorism, for example.
| 241 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:58:09pm |
re: #234 NJDhockeyfan
I’m from NJ. My mom lives int he house she grew up in in Springfield. All over that area are incredible old houses and buildings. There was even a little historic battle there right down the street from her house.
The Battle of Springfield
spanked the Brits!…yay!
| 242 |
Interesting Times Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:58:14pm |
re: #235 Lidane
Pfft. As if the American political system gives a shit about root causes. We just build more for-profit prisons whose owners bribe judges to dump people there.
Fixed.
| 243 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:59:06pm |
re: #239 marjoriemoon
In my most humble opinion, it all springs from economics, or the lack thereof. Poverty breeds all sorts of nasty things, lack of education at the top, dysfunctional families, crime, substance abuse, etc.
It’s a cycle. Bill Cosby was from a poor family. He broke the cycle.
The question is: How can you break the cycle? Not everyone has the enormous talent and drive of a Bill Cosby.
| 244 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:59:13pm |
re: #239 marjoriemoon
In my most humble opinion, it all springs from economics, or the lack thereof. Poverty breeds all sorts of nasty things, lack of education at the top, dysfunctional families, crime, substance abuse, etc.
In part- but the vast majority of poor people irrespective of race, creed, etc., do not commit crimes.
| 245 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 7:59:18pm |
re: #228 jaunte
Charleston is amazing. You could spend months in the historic district there without seeing it all.
Chicago is amazing in its own way, too. A much newer and bigger skyline, but one that blends well with buildings from the 1920’s to the latest entry in Trump Tower. Other parts of the city have their own gems, and the some of the churches are works of art in their own right.
| 246 |
jaunte Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:00:09pm |
re: #245 Dark_Falcon
I’ve been up a couple of times. Beautiful downtown to walk in, in the summer.
| 247 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:00:13pm |
re: #236 Dark_Falcon
He’s trying to make the point that the idea of ‘food deserts’ is bunk and what is really needed is cultural change. As for how to effect that change, I think he knows that can’t happen quickly. Better habits have to be promoted. I myself would argue for policies that are more pro-family and ‘do good by doing right by others’ rather than ‘It’s all about me!”.
Note: “Pro-family” should not be read to imply policies aimed at keeping women at home or outlawing abortion. Not when I say it.
How are liberals against that? The “It’s all about me” culture is made from the American individualism that the right pimps all the time. Wasn’t hippies that wanted communes? And isn’t it the right that constantly mocks Michelle Obama for trying to promote family and healthy living and eating??
| 248 |
jaunte Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:01:04pm |
re: #234 NJDhockeyfan
For more than 40 minutes, Angell and his men fought 5 times their numbers to a standstill. The British slowly pushed the militia back to the second bridge over Van Winkle’s Brook on Morris Avenue. During the heat of the battle, Reverend James Caldwell, Chaplain of Col. Elias Dayton’s Regiment, whose wife had been murdered 16 days before, passed out Watts Hymnals from the Presbyterian Church for use as wadding. His cry of “Give Them Watts, Boys”, has lived on the become a Motto of that conflict.
Great story, thanks for the link.
| 249 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:01:10pm |
re: #245 Dark_Falcon
Chicago is amazing in its own way, too. A much newer and bigger skyline, but one that blends well with buildings from the 1920’s to the latest entry in Trump Tower. Other parts of the city have their own gems, and the some of the churches are works of art in their own right.
Denver has blended new and old very well too…always reminded me a bit of Chicago in that regard…Denver cherishes it’s older buildings
| 250 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:01:42pm |
re: #243 EmmmieG
It’s a cycle. Bill Cosby was from a poor family. He broke the cycle.
The question is: How can you break the cycle? Not everyone has the enormous talent and drive of a Bill Cosby.
Culture.
When the culture of success overcomes the culture giving up (and that’s a big part of ‘it’s not my fault’) the cycle is broken.
That’s why so many parents in poor neighborhoods try so hard to get their kids into private schools. They are desperate their kids succeed.
| 251 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:05:06pm |
re: #239 marjoriemoon
In my most humble opinion, it all springs from economics, or the lack thereof. Poverty breeds all sorts of nasty things, lack of education at the top, dysfunctional families, crime, substance abuse, etc.
Poverty can result in those things.
Poverty does not necessarily breed those things.
That’s an insult to a whole heckuva lot of poor people I know who haven’t fallen prey to the nastiness.
| 252 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:05:17pm |
re: #250 researchok
Culture.
When the culture of success overcomes the culture giving up (and that’s a big part of ‘it’s not my fault’) the cycle is broken.
That’s why so many parents in poor neighborhoods try so hard to get their kids into private schools. They are desperate their kids succeed.
Cosby gives the credit to his mother, but I see your point.
| 253 |
Interesting Times Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:05:55pm |
If I may bring up the subject of Libya again for a moment:
Human Rights Petition: Shut Down Gaddafi State TV!
Normally I don’t page petitions, but this group has had a lot of success lately, and, knowing very well what role “Radio Rwanda” played in mass slaughter, if there’s even a tiny chance of stopping a repeat, I’ll take it.
| 254 |
jaunte Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:06:31pm |
re: #251 reine.de.tout
Thanks on behalf of my wife and my mother!
| 255 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:06:54pm |
re: #252 EmmmieG
Cosby gives the credit to his mother, but I see your point.
You highlight another reality- the influence caring parents can have.
That isn’t to say caring parents are a necessary to break the cycle, but it can only help.
| 256 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:07:51pm |
re: #253 publicityStunted
If I may bring up the subject of Libya again for a moment:
Human Rights Petition: Shut Down Gaddafi State TV!Normally I don’t page petitions, but this group has had a lot of success lately, and, knowing very well what role “Radio Rwanda” played in mass slaughter, if there’s even a tiny chance of stopping a repeat, I’ll take it.
it should have been taken down a week or more ago…give warning and demolish the studios and antennas
| 257 |
freetoken Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:08:25pm |
Meanwhile, back in Japan:
12:00 27 March
NEWS ADVISORY: Over 1,000 millisieverts per hour found in water at No.2 reactor
At 1 Sievert/hr rate workers will not be able to be in there but a few minutes before their yearly quota of radiation is reached.
11:35 27 March
NEWS ADVISORY: Radioactive iodine 1,850 times limit in sea near plant, up from Fri.
I’m not too concerned about the sea (which already has vast quantity of radioactive isotopes), but if they are increasing flow of water into the 4 buildings and their parts, more water will flow out and thus carry with it the water soluble compounds. If the amount of radioactive material is increasing at the outlet into the sea, that means there is a heck of a lot of radioactive material free in those buildings.
This problem is going to drag on for a long time.
| 258 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:08:52pm |
re: #254 jaunte
Thanks on behalf of my wife and my mother!
heh.
And my mom and dad.
And me.
And, well, you obviously saw where I was headed with that.
| 259 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:09:05pm |
re: #250 researchok
Culture.
When the culture of success overcomes the culture giving up (and that’s a big part of ‘it’s not my fault’) the cycle is broken.
That’s why so many parents in poor neighborhoods try so hard to get their kids into private schools. They are desperate their kids succeed.
Indeed. That’s why if a new charter school is approved in most cities, its got 3 times as many applications as it can accept even before it opens. That fact is also a damning indictment of such area’s public school system.
(No, I’m not going to lay all the blame on that on ‘the unions’. It’s far more complex than that.)
| 260 |
Targetpractice Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:09:53pm |
re: #257 freetoken
Meanwhile, back in Japan:
At 1 Sievert/hr rate workers will not be able to be in there but a few minutes before their yearly quota of radiation is reached.
I’m not too concerned about the sea (which already has vast quantity of radioactive isotopes), but if they are increasing flow of water into the 4 buildings and their parts, more water will flow out and thus carry with it the water soluble compounds. If the amount of radioactive material is increasing at the outlet into the sea, that means there is a heck of a lot of radioactive material free in those buildings.
This problem is going to drag on for a long time.
Think it’s safe to say that this plant is fraked. Probably best to put a dome over it and keep watch on the heat levels.
| 261 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:10:17pm |
re: #248 jaunte
Great story, thanks for the link.
It was an important battle that helped win the war. Unfortunately nobody heard about it.
Here’s a couple pictures of a building walking distance from my mom’s house.
NJ - Springfield - Hutchings Homestead
The Hutchings Homestead, also known as The Cannon Ball House at 126 Morris Avenue in Springfield, is a farmstead and dwelling built about 1740. A cannonball pierced the west wall during the American Revolutionary War Battle of Springfield on June 23 1780.
New Jersey State Register (1976)
National Register #77000915 (1977)
This sign is sitting on the property..
| 262 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:10:17pm |
re: #259 Dark_Falcon
Indeed. That’s why if a new charter school is approved in most cities, its got 3 times as many applications as it can accept even before it opens. That fact is also a damning indictment of such area’s public school system.
(No, I’m not going to lay all the blame on that on ‘the unions’. It’s far more complex than that.)
Parents want their kids to succeed.
That is the driving force.
| 263 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:10:40pm |
| 264 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:11:04pm |
re: #259 Dark_Falcon
Indeed. That’s why if a new charter school is approved in most cities, its got 3 times as many applications as it can accept even before it opens. That fact is also a damning indictment of such area’s public school system.
(No, I’m not going to lay all the blame on that on ‘the unions’. It’s far more complex than that.)
learning is 90% parenting, I don’t care what the system
| 265 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:11:33pm |
re: #262 researchok
Parents want their kids to succeed.
That is the driving force.
I think you mean Good Parents. (Like mine.)
| 266 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:11:48pm |
re: #255 researchok
You highlight another reality- the influence caring parents can have.
That isn’t to say caring parents are a necessary to break the cycle, but it can only help.
Not a necessity, but they often play a cardinal role. Our parents are the ones who give our early lives direction and work to keep us out of trouble.
| 267 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:12:14pm |
| 268 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:12:23pm |
re: #263 marjoriemoon
re: #244 researchok
re: #251 reine.de.tout
I was trying to find the statistics. I had them at one time.
At any rate, I didn’t say that poverty is equal to crime. It is true, however, that poverty plays a roll in violent and petty crimes. I’m looking for the articles.
For sure there is a correlation!
The question is how much a factor poverty is vs culture, social associations , etc.
| 269 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:13:18pm |
| 270 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:13:31pm |
re: #268 researchok
For sure there is a correlation!
The question is how much a factor poverty is vs culture, social associations , etc.
Did you know there is a correlation between how many books are in a home and the educational achievements of the children?
Of course, that’s because both tie to the attitudes of the parents.
| 271 |
freetoken Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:13:36pm |
re: #260 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Think it’s safe to say that this plant is fraked.
They knew that when they decided to use salt water to a few days after the quake, to pump into the few systems that were working and to spray on the spent fuel pools in unit 4.
This multibillion dollar facility is now nothing more than an albatross around the neck of Japan, and TEPCO. Indeed, that is why a few days after the incident the large banks in Japan had to get together and arrange a multi-billion dollar line of credit for TEPCO, in order to keep the utility from going belly up.
| 272 |
austin_blue Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:13:46pm |
re: #243 EmmmieG
It’s a cycle. Bill Cosby was from a poor family. He broke the cycle.
The question is: How can you break the cycle? Not everyone has the enormous talent and drive of a Bill Cosby.
It helps to be born *really fucking smart*. It helps to have a decent education. It helps to have a supportive community.
This isn’t a black problem. It’s a *poor* problem in poor communities. Appalachia isn’t that different from Harlem in this.
Poor begets poor.
| 273 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:14:08pm |
re: #259 Dark_Falcon
Indeed. That’s why if a new charter school is approved in most cities, its got 3 times as many applications as it can accept even before it opens. That fact is also a damning indictment of such area’s public school system.
(No, I’m not going to lay all the blame on that on ‘the unions’. It’s far more complex than that.)
Do children perform any better having attended a charter school? Just because there’s demand doesn’t mean it works. [Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
| 274 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:15:40pm |
re: #273 recusancy
Do children perform any better having attended a charter school? Just because there’s demand doesn’t mean it works. [Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
A child’s performance is not guaranteed because he or she attends a good school. That child has to be enveloped in a culture that appreciates and values academic success.
| 275 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:15:57pm |
re: #264 albusteve
learning is 90% parenting, I don’t care what the system
You mean throwing more money at the schools doesn’t work?
//
| 276 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:17:07pm |
re: #243 EmmmieG
It’s a cycle. Bill Cosby was from a poor family. He broke the cycle.
The question is: How can you break the cycle? Not everyone has the enormous talent and drive of a Bill Cosby.
Exceptional or lucky people can make their way out of poverty. But that doesn’t change the basic suck-you-down-in-the-mud nature of poverty.
| 277 |
austin_blue Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:17:58pm |
re: #260 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Think it’s safe to say that this plant is fraked. Probably best to put a dome over it and keep watch on the heat levels.
As noted here, once they started putting seawater into the containment vessels, the individual reactor was toast. That was what, day 2? That horse left the barn weeks ago.
The problem with a Chernobyl style solution is that the little fuckers are hard up against the coast.
Not optimal!
| 278 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:18:38pm |
re: #272 austin_blue
It helps to be born *really fucking smart*. It helps to have a decent education. It helps to have a supportive community.
This isn’t a black problem. It’s a *poor* problem in poor communities. Appalachia isn’t that different from Harlem in this.
Poor begets poor.
I’m not implying it’s a black problem. Bill Cosby just stands out in my mind as a successful man from a poor background.
The poverty you speak of is a poverty of culture, not money.
I know people who make good money and are successful from pretty poor (money wise) backgrounds which were rich with encouragement and family.
You can overcome poverty of money. The other type is much harder.
| 279 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:18:40pm |
re: #259 Dark_Falcon
Indeed. That’s why if a new charter school is approved in most cities, its got 3 times as many applications as it can accept even before it opens. That fact is also a damning indictment of such area’s public school system.
(No, I’m not going to lay all the blame on that on ‘the unions’. It’s far more complex than that.)
The problem is that those applications reflect a parental desire for a good and safe school environment—but the charters don’t always deliver. (Been there, taught at that.)
| 280 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:19:00pm |
re: #273 recusancy
Do children perform any better having attended a charter school? Just because there’s demand doesn’t mean it works. [Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
Some do. It depends on many things. Many from poor areas are surrounded by a culture of failure. While some people will be self-motivated enough to get out of such a culture on their own (the ‘pulling yourself up by your bootstraps”), most people need a parent or parents and a schools that will help shield them from that failure and make the rewards of success visible and believable.
| 281 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:19:43pm |
re: #276 SanFranciscoZionist
Exceptional or lucky people can make their way out of poverty. But that doesn’t change the basic suck-you-down-in-the-mud nature of poverty.
It isn’t just exceptional people who escape poverty by way of education.
Immigrant groups of all kinds have been doing that for decades, in no small measure because of a culture which appreciates academic success.
In places like Appalachia, some inner cities, et., that culture is less established.
| 282 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:19:43pm |
re: #278 EmmmieG
I’m not implying it’s a black problem. Bill Cosby just stands out in my mind as a successful man from a poor background.
The poverty you speak of is a poverty of culture, not money.
I know people who make good money and are successful from pretty poor (money wise) backgrounds which were rich with encouragement and family.
You can overcome poverty of money. The other type is much harder.
Like Bill Clinton and Obama.
| 283 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:20:04pm |
re: #273 recusancy
Do children perform any better having attended a charter school? Just because there’s demand doesn’t mean it works. [Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
I seem to recall that when they followed up with the kids in the lottery for spots in a charter school, the ones who got in and the ones who didn’t still ended up doing roughly the same - student motivation being far more important than the school or system.
Meanwhile those small handful of schools drain away resources from all the other schools in their district.
| 284 |
austin_blue Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:20:19pm |
re: #271 freetoken
They knew that when they decided to use salt water to a few days after the quake, to pump into the few systems that were working and to spray on the spent fuel pools in unit 4.
This multibillion dollar facility is now nothing more than an albatross around the neck of Japan, and TEPCO. Indeed, that is why a few days after the incident the large banks in Japan had to get together and arrange a multi-billion dollar line of credit for TEPCO, in order to keep the utility from going belly up.
Truth!
| 285 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:21:23pm |
re: #281 researchok
It isn’t just exceptional people who escape poverty by way of education.
Immigrant groups of all kinds have been doing that for decades, in no small measure because of a culture which appreciates academic success.
In places like Appalachia, some inner cities, et., that culture is less established.
thinking the remarkable success of many Vietnamese immigrants, in a very short period of time….ambition is priceless, thank god my kids have plenty
| 286 |
Targetpractice Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:22:00pm |
re: #271 freetoken
They knew that when they decided to use salt water to a few days after the quake, to pump into the few systems that were working and to spray on the spent fuel pools in unit 4.
This multibillion dollar facility is now nothing more than an albatross around the neck of Japan, and TEPCO. Indeed, that is why a few days after the incident the large banks in Japan had to get together and arrange a multi-billion dollar line of credit for TEPCO, in order to keep the utility from going belly up.
Do they have any clue as to whether or not it’ll be safe anytime soon to resume residing in the area around the plant? Or are we looking at another Exclusion Zone?
| 287 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:22:00pm |
re: #278 EmmmieG
You can overcome poverty of money. The other type is much harder.
Exactly.
Further, overcoming the culture you speak of requires involvement, not just by the student but the parents as well.
| 288 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:22:11pm |
| 289 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:23:18pm |
then again, I have not read one of the many BO autobiographies
| 290 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:23:33pm |
re: #279 SanFranciscoZionist
The problem is that those applications reflect a parental desire for a good and safe school environment—but the charters don’t always deliver. (Been there, taught at that.)
Yup- that’s a whole other conversation.
| 291 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:23:33pm |
re: #274 researchok
A child’s performance is not guaranteed because he or she attends a good school. That child has to be enveloped in a culture that appreciates and values academic success.
“Charter” and “good” are not necessarily linked.
| 292 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:23:46pm |
re: #275 NJDhockeyfan
You mean throwing more money at the schools doesn’t work?
//
We don’t know. It’s never been tried.
| 293 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:24:36pm |
re: #288 albusteve
Obama was poverty stricken?…I don’t think so
Well lower class. He wasn’t on the street or anything.
| 294 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:27:13pm |
re: #268 researchok
For sure there is a correlation!
The question is how much a factor poverty is vs culture, social associations , etc.
Well I said there was a correlation. People who are happy, well-fed and have steady income, even if it isn’t a large income, do not have to resort to crime. But it’s no secret that when unemployment is high, crime goes up, petty crimes such as theft. I thought it also related to violent crimes, but that seems to be a misconception.
[Link: www.cepr.org…]
Seems like, however, that the majority of crimes happen in big cities or just outside big cities. I can’t find economic statistics to compare though, but I suspect it’s somewhere.
[Link: www.census.gov…]
| 295 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:27:26pm |
Qadhafi’s lies pushed us into fight, captured soldiers say
BENGHAZI, Libya: Their bodies are broken — as broken as their loyalty now to their one-time leader Moamer Qadhafi, whom they say lied to push them into battle against rebellious compatriots in eastern Libya.
Three of them are soldiers in Qadhafi’s army, wounded and taken prisoner in different locations a week ago by rebels.
They were lying in beds in a guarded room in a hospital in Benghazi, sleeping, praying and reflecting on how they ended up being cared for by a compassionate enemy that in no way resembled Al-Qaeda, Israel’s Mossad or the foreign terrorists Qadhafi’s officers had said awaited them.
Azoumi Ali Mohammed, 25, said he was a reservist taken on March 20 after coalition warplanes bombed his convoy of more than 400 Libyan troops and African mercenaries on a desert road leading from the eastern city of Ajdabiya.
“The planes hit us as soon as we headed out. I saw two people die in front of me. After that I don’t know what happened,” he said. He showed his bandaged right leg where he was wounded by shrapnel.
Their orders had been to secure the area, and to “fight mercenaries and al-Qaeda,” he said.
“I was shocked” to discover the enemy was in fact fellow Libyans, he said, explaining that all their mobile phones had been confiscated in Tripoli to prevent them having outside communications.
Mohammed said that now he had seen the rebellion, and been cared for by its doctors, “I know I want to fight against Qadhafi’s forces.”
| 296 |
austin_blue Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:27:43pm |
| 297 |
jaunte Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:27:45pm |
re: #292 SanFranciscoZionist
I saw a private school out in Sonoma county where it looked like they were running a pilot project to see just how much money per square foot a bunch of California multimillionaires could toss in; don’t know how efficient it was in improving the students scores, though.
| 298 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:28:00pm |
re: #281 researchok
It isn’t just exceptional people who escape poverty by way of education.
Immigrant groups of all kinds have been doing that for decades, in no small measure because of a culture which appreciates academic success.
In places like Appalachia, some inner cities, et., that culture is less established.
Interestingly, a lot of those immigrant groups were considered, as they got started, to have an unbreakable culture of poverty. The Italians, the Irish.
| 299 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:28:20pm |
re: #270 EmmmieG
Did you know there is a correlation between how many books are in a home and the educational achievements of the children?
Of course, that’s because both tie to the attitudes of the parents.
A lot of it is education. Did you mention Bill Crosby? He was poor, but his parents pushed education, I believe. At least, he’s real strong about that.
| 300 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:28:23pm |
re: #293 recusancy
Well lower class. He wasn’t on the street or anything.
Um, not exactly lower class, either.
He was ten in 1971.
In 1971, Obama returned to Honolulu to live with his maternal grandparents, Madelyn and Stanley Armour Dunham, and attended Punahou School, a private college preparatory school, from the fifth grade until his graduation from high school in 1979.
| 301 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:28:55pm |
re: #300 reine.de.tout
Um, not exactly lower class, either.
He was ten in 1971.
He was there on scholarship.
| 302 |
freetoken Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:29:11pm |
re: #276 SanFranciscoZionist
Exceptional or lucky people can make their way out of poverty. But that doesn’t change the basic suck-you-down-in-the-mud nature of poverty.
This is, I think, a particularly good point. It touches on a phenomenon that is often misinterpreted: luck.
Given a pool of N people, finding the subset M (which may have only 1 element) and then trying to base a conclusion on that subset M while under appreciating the N-M remainder.
For every Bill Cosby there are dozens to hundreds of black men who have ended up in perpetual poverty and/or prison.
Yes, Cosby and other success stories are inspirations but that does not mean that others will necessarily be able to end up like the “winners”.
Certainly the destruction of a healthy family unit plays the key role in what we see in so many places of poverty across this country. Yet I don’t see how to reconstruct those communities with any simple prescription, though many are written about.
“Culture” is a squishy concept, and whole academic fields spend mental effort in trying to understand it.
What works in one place doesn’t necessarily work in another, with a different set of people in a different geography.
I came from a very poor family… and I did not end up rich. Yet I also did not end up like so many in my childhood neighborhood, caught in no-future jobs and victims of alcoholism, etc. Some of us just get by without any great glory but also without ending up in a prison or in perpetual rehab.
| 303 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:29:11pm |
re: #301 recusancy
He was there on scholarship.
He was smart and being a minority probably didn’t hurt.
| 304 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:29:17pm |
re: #297 jaunte
I saw a private school out in Sonoma county where it looked like they were running a pilot project to see just how much money per square foot a bunch of California multimillionaires could toss in; don’t know how efficient it was in improving the students scores, though.
Well, OK, but private schools in Sonoma county are, by their nature, a little nonstandard…
| 305 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:29:39pm |
re: #300 reine.de.tout
Um, not exactly lower class, either.
He was ten in 1971.
where does this BO poverty meme come from?….it’s a total fabrication
| 306 |
jaunte Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:29:53pm |
re: #304 SanFranciscoZionist
The student art looked suspiciously teacher-designed.
| 307 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:29:59pm |
re: #294 marjoriemoon
Well I said there was a correlation. People who are happy, well-fed and have steady income, even if it isn’t a large income, do not have to resort to crime. But it’s no secret that when unemployment is high, crime goes up, petty crimes such as theft. I thought it also related to violent crimes, but that seems to be a misconception.
[Link: www.cepr.org…]
Seems like, however, that the majority of crimes happen in big cities or just outside big cities. I can’t find economic statistics to compare though, but I suspect it’s somewhere.
[Link: www.census.gov…]
You’ve never known any middle class kids with police records? I have. (Drugs. Usually drugs.)
I would guess that the majority of crimes happen near big cities. Cow tipping doesn’t usually get reported. You have to have people to have crimes.
| 308 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:30:00pm |
re: #300 reine.de.tout
Um, not exactly lower class, either.
He was ten in 1971.
My mother-in-law went to Punahou. As did one of my college roommates.
| 309 |
austin_blue Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:30:20pm |
re: #294 marjoriemoon
Well I said there was a correlation. People who are happy, well-fed and have steady income, even if it isn’t a large income, do not have to resort to crime. But it’s no secret that when unemployment is high, crime goes up, petty crimes such as theft. I thought it also related to violent crimes, but that seems to be a misconception.
[Link: www.cepr.org…]
Seems like, however, that the majority of crimes happen in big cities or just outside big cities. I can’t find economic statistics to compare though, but I suspect it’s somewhere.
[Link: www.census.gov…]
Certainly that was the case in the long ago, but the biggest meth and Oxycontin (there’s a reason why they call it Hillbilly Heroin) problems are often now in rural communities and smaller cities.
| 310 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:30:42pm |
Tonight’s bogus outrageous outrage: Obama regime rounding up journalists….
[Link: drudgereport.com…]
Bonus: Photo of closet prison
/Outrageous!
| 311 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:31:57pm |
re: #310 Killgore Trout
Tonight’s bogus outrageous outrage: Obama regime rounding up journalists…
[Link: drudgereport.com…]
Bonus: Photo of closet prison
/Outrageous!
was he stripped searched?
never mind
| 312 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:31:59pm |
re: #294 marjoriemoon
Well I said there was a correlation. People who are happy, well-fed and have steady income, even if it isn’t a large income, do not have to resort to crime. But it’s no secret that when unemployment is high, crime goes up, petty crimes such as theft. I thought it also related to violent crimes, but that seems to be a misconception.
[Link: www.cepr.org…]
Seems like, however, that the majority of crimes happen in big cities or just outside big cities. I can’t find economic statistics to compare though, but I suspect it’s somewhere.
[Link: www.census.gov…]
All true. Crime does factor in.
That said, academic performance and poverty are not necessarily directly linked.
As noted, the vast majority of poor people do not engage in criminal activity.
It seems to me academic success is mostly predicated on cultural influences as opposed to monetary influences.
| 313 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:32:15pm |
re: #310 Killgore Trout
They were busy noshing on caprese crostini with oven-dried mozzarella and basil, rosemary flatbread with grapes honey and gorgonzola cheese and bacon deviled eggs, before a lunch of grilled chicken Caesar and garden vegetable wraps.
Socialism!
| 314 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:32:33pm |
re: #305 albusteve
where does this BO poverty meme come from?…it’s a total fabrication
He was there on a scholarship.
| 315 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:33:04pm |
re: #301 recusancy
He was there on scholarship.
Could be.
Info on Obama’s mom and grandparents, with whom he lived, does not indicate they were “lower class at all”.
I’m just wondering where the heck you came up with that; seems like it has to be an assumption on your part, because I can’t find any family stuff to indicate that at all.
| 316 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:33:13pm |
| 317 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:33:27pm |
re: #305 albusteve
where does this BO poverty meme come from?…it’s a total fabrication
Well, yeah it is.
OR an incorrect assumption on the part of somebody.
| 318 |
austin_blue Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:33:44pm |
| 319 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:33:56pm |
re: #300 reine.de.tout
Um, not exactly lower class, either.
He was ten in 1971.
He was middle class, but there was a huge middle class in the 70s with only a few very wealthy and very poor, certainly by today’s numbers.
| 321 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:34:14pm |
| 323 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:35:03pm |
re: #315 reine.de.tout
Could be.
Info on Obama’s mom and grandparents, with whom he lived, does not indicate they were “lower class at all”.
I’m just wondering where the heck you came up with that; seems like it has to be an assumption on your part, because I can’t find any family stuff to indicate that at all.
Ughhh…. [Link: abcnews.go.com…]
It was the 1970s and Obama was one of the few black students on campus. The son of a white mother and black father, he attended Punahou on a scholarship starting in the fifth grade.
Obama’s parents were divorced. He barely knew his father and spent most of his time living with his grandparents.
“For my grandparents, my admission into Punahou Academy heralded the start of something grand, an elevation in the family status that they took great pains to let everyone know,” Obama writes in “Dreams From My Father,” his memoir of those years.
[Link: www.google.com…]
| 324 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:35:13pm |
re: #302 freetoken
This is, I think, a particularly good point. It touches on a phenomenon that is often misinterpreted: luck.
Given a pool of N people, finding the subset M (which may have only 1 element) and then trying to base a conclusion on that subset M while under appreciating the N-M remainder.
For every Bill Cosby there are dozens to hundreds of black men who have ended up in perpetual poverty and/or prison.
Yes, Cosby and other success stories are inspirations but that does not mean that others will necessarily be able to end up like the “winners”.
Certainly the destruction of a healthy family unit plays the key role in what we see in so many places of poverty across this country. Yet I don’t see how to reconstruct those communities with any simple prescription, though many are written about.
“Culture” is a squishy concept, and whole academic fields spend mental effort in trying to understand it.
What works in one place doesn’t necessarily work in another, with a different set of people in a different geography.
I came from a very poor family… and I did not end up rich. Yet I also did not end up like so many in my childhood neighborhood, caught in no-future jobs and victims of alcoholism, etc. Some of us just get by without any great glory but also without ending up in a prison or in perpetual rehab.
True, but that is only a part of the story.
For every Bill Cosby there are hundreds of others who have made their way out of poverty. The ascension of the minority middle class is testament to that.
There are other problems, however, in the minority communities. Women are out pacing men at a great rate when it comes to higher education.
There are cultural reasons for that as well.
| 326 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:35:28pm |
Wait, wait, poor Republicans…uh, uh, Abraham Lincoln!
(Proof that not all step mothers are evil, and not all ugly men are the villains. Have I ever mentioned that I really love Abraham Lincoln?)
(Actually, my own grandfather was probably registered Republican, and he grew up poor, lost his father as a teen, and he and his brothers succeeded beautifully in college.)
| 327 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:35:29pm |
re: #319 marjoriemoon
He was middle class, but there was a huge middle class in the 70s with only a few very wealthy and very poor, certainly by today’s numbers.
Well, marjorie, that’s what I think.
He was strictly middle-class, about like I was.
It’s recusancy who keeps repeating that Obama was “lower class”.
I’m trying to convince him otherwise and not having much luck.
| 328 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:35:51pm |
re: #321 albusteve
that’s when he got his first pair of govt shoes?
Says the guy on government assistance.
| 330 |
austin_blue Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:37:35pm |
| 331 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:37:54pm |
re: #328 recusancy
Says the guy on government assistance.
I think getting personal here will not help. The question is the socio-economic status of Obama as a child.
| 332 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:38:35pm |
re: #331 EmmmieG
I think getting personal here will not help. The question is the socio-economic status of Obama as a child.
Fair enough. It just gets annoying when people on government assistance complain about government assistance.
| 333 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:38:42pm |
re: #328 recusancy
Says the guy on government assistance.
I paid for my assistance, dumbass…I’m handicapped shit for brains
| 334 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:39:46pm |
re: #331 EmmmieG
I think getting personal here will not help. The question is the socio-economic status of Obama as a child.
Ask me how much I care about the socio-economic status of the President as a child…
(For the record, I think Obama’s family was middle-class, although not at all affluent. Coming from such a background and becoming President is impressive enough.)
| 335 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:40:33pm |
Gates: Intel shows Qaddafi planting bodies at attack sites
On “Face the Nation” airing Sunday, Defense Secretary Robert Gates told CBS News chief Washington Correspondent Bob Schieffer that intelligence reports indicate Muammar Qaddafi’s forces are planting dead bodies of civilians at sites attacked by coalition forces.
“We do have a lot of intelligence reporting about Qaddafi taking the bodies of the people he’s killed and putting them at the sites where we’ve attacked,” Gates told Schieffer in an interview taped Saturday.
Gates stressed that coalition forces have been “extremely careful in this military effort” and commended coalition air forces saying, they “have really done an extraordinary job.”
Schieffer asked Gates if the Qaddafi regime is planting bodies at more than one location. While acknowledging that bodies have been moved to more than one location, Gates could not say how many.
“We just get various reports,” he replied.
| 337 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:40:41pm |
re: #334 SanFranciscoZionist
Ask me how much I care about the socio-economic status of the President as a child…
(For the record, I think Obama’s family was middle-class, although not at all affluent. Coming from such a background and becoming President is impressive enough.)
Miss Manners observes that all Americans belong to the lower middle class, the middle class, or the upper middle class, or at least, Miss Manners has never met an American who will admit to belonging to any other group.
| 338 |
austin_blue Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:40:51pm |
re: #331 EmmmieG
I think getting personal here will not help. The question is the socio-economic status of Obama as a child.
No. I think the question is all of this veiled racist, as opposed to economic upbringing, crapola.
The poor, *all* of the poor, are at a HUGE disadvantage from day one. Educators will tell you that it is the single most accurate predictor of student performance.
| 339 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:41:01pm |
re: #307 EmmmieG
You’ve never known any middle class kids with police records? I have. (Drugs. Usually drugs.)
I would guess that the majority of crimes happen near big cities. Cow tipping doesn’t usually get reported. You have to have people to have crimes.
You guys seem to be putting words in my mouth. Did I say that crime doesn’t exist within the middle or upper classes? Lack of money to care for your family spawns crime. That’s pretty obvious. Murder, rape, violent crimes do not seem to be effected by economics. And of course, there’s white collar crime, but I don’t think we’re talking about that.
Freetoken said it better than I could. Poverty puts stress on parents. They may be working at medial jobs and can’t watch their children as they would like - latch-key kids. Poor nutrition is a huge factor, as well as education. People can more easily get caught in a downward spiral.
| 340 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:41:33pm |
re: #328 recusancy
Says the guy on government assistance.
What are you trying to do, become douchebag of the week?
| 341 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:41:36pm |
re: #334 SanFranciscoZionist
Ask me how much I care about the socio-economic status of the President as a child…
(For the record, I think Obama’s family was middle-class, although not at all affluent. Coming from such a background and becoming President is impressive enough.)
I don’t much care either.
And Obama’s family was about like mine - middle class, but not affluent at all.
I am pretty pissed off that an assumption has been made that Obama was “lower class”. I really wonder why recusancy would make that assumption. It seems to me like a pretty asshole-ish assumption to make.
| 342 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:41:38pm |
re: #336 recusancy
Ok. I over stepped. I apologize.
you’ve overstepped many times with that wisecrack…fuck you
| 343 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:41:39pm |
re: #334 SanFranciscoZionist
Ask me how much I care about the socio-economic status of the President as a child…
(For the record, I think Obama’s family was middle-class, although not at all affluent. Coming from such a background and becoming President is impressive enough.)
The question at hand, and perhaps we should get back to it, is how can the great majority of people be helped to escape true poverty?
We got sidetracked on presidents.
| 344 |
recusancy Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:42:05pm |
re: #307 EmmmieG
You’ve never known any middle class kids with police records? I have. (Drugs. Usually drugs.)
I would guess that the majority of crimes happen near big cities. Cow tipping doesn’t usually get reported. You have to have people to have crimes.
Lot of white collar crime in the upper classes doesn’t get reported or prosecuted either.
| 345 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:43:03pm |
re: #339 marjoriemoon
If it seems people are putting words in your mouth, it very well may be because your comment on it to which I responded, isn’t really all that clear. You’ve clarified since then, but if this is what people read, it really wasn’t clear.
re: #239 marjoriemoon
In my most humble opinion, it all springs from economics, or the lack thereof. Poverty breeds all sorts of nasty things, lack of education at the top, dysfunctional families, crime, substance abuse, etc.
| 346 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:44:30pm |
re: #334 SanFranciscoZionist
Ask me how much I care about the socio-economic status of the President as a child…
(For the record, I think Obama’s family was middle-class, although not at all affluent. Coming from such a background and becoming President is impressive enough.)
They didn’t have a lot of money, but they did have what some call “middle class values”. Same with Michelle Obama. No real money, but they valued certain things. Also apparently no addictions, violence or abuse in the home.
| 347 |
austin_blue Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:44:32pm |
re: #339 marjoriemoon
You guys seem to be putting words in my mouth. Did I say that crime doesn’t exist within the middle or upper classes? Lack of money to care for your family spawns crime. That’s pretty obvious. Murder, rape, violent crimes do not seem to be effected by economics. And of course, there’s white collar crime, but I don’t think we’re talking about that.
Freetoken said it better than I could. Poverty puts stress on parents. They may be working at medial jobs and can’t watch their children as they would like - latch-key kids. Poor nutrition is a huge factor, as well as education. People can more easily get caught in a downward spiral.
Freetoken is my hero. The voice of logic and reason. Oh, and he backs it up with facts!
| 348 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:44:34pm |
re: #327 reine.de.tout
Well, marjorie, that’s what I think.
He was strictly middle-class, about like I was.It’s recusancy who keeps repeating that Obama was “lower class”.
I’m trying to convince him otherwise and not having much luck.
He may have been on the lower end of middle class. Yes, I think all of us at that time were more or less at the same level. Some had a little more, some a little less, but I think the divide has grown considerably in 30-35 years.
| 349 |
Targetpractice Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:45:03pm |
re: #335 NJDhockeyfan
Color me surprised. It seems the man can’t decide whether he wants to unass with as much loot as he can get away with or truly fight this thing to the death. Either way, I doubt his reign will last another year.
| 350 |
Kragar Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:45:22pm |
re: #344 recusancy
Lot of white collar crime in the upper classes doesn’t get reported or prosecuted either.
A great deal of computer crimes never get reported because companies don’t want to go on record that their network security got breached.
| 351 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:45:34pm |
re: #310 Killgore Trout
Tonight’s bogus outrageous outrage: Obama regime rounding up journalists…
[Link: drudgereport.com…]
Bonus: Photo of closet prison
/Outrageous!
If its front page on Drudge, you know its facepalm worthy.
| 352 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:45:59pm |
re: #324 researchok
True, but that is only a part of the story.
For every Bill Cosby there are hundreds of others who have made their way out of poverty. The ascension of the minority middle class is testament to that.
There are other problems, however, in the minority communities. Women are out pacing men at a great rate when it comes to higher education.
There are cultural reasons for that as well.
About the education - that’s true.
But it also is not limited to minority communities.
| 353 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:47:40pm |
re: #352 reine.de.tout
About the education - that’s true.
But it also is not limited to minority communities.
Yes, I should have been more clear about that.
Women in general now are attending university at a higher rate than men.
Men it seems, are regressing.
| 354 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:48:17pm |
re: #345 reine.de.tout
If it seems people are putting words in your mouth, it very well may be because your comment on it to which I responded, isn’t really all that clear. You’ve clarified since then, but if this is what people read, it really wasn’t clear.
I’m more verbal during the day when I’m not as tired :) My apologies.
| 355 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:48:18pm |
re: #345 reine.de.tout
If it seems people are putting words in your mouth, it very well may be because your comment on it to which I responded, isn’t really all that clear. You’ve clarified since then, but if this is what people read, it really wasn’t clear.
re: #239 marjoriemoon
I think her comment was pretty clear. Poverty breeds desperation and despair. This isn’t true of all low income people or poor communities. But in many poor communities the sadness is palpable. There some conditions under which humans just don’t do well in.
| 356 |
austin_blue Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:48:25pm |
re: #348 marjoriemoon
He may have been on the lower end of middle class. Yes, I think all of us at that time were more or less at the same level. Some had a little more, some a little less, but I think the divide has grown considerably in 30-35 years.
Gee, what happened thirty years ago? i seem to recall something…
Hmm…
Maybe this?
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
Saint Ronnie! He saved us all! What a peach!
| 357 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:48:43pm |
re: #349 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Color me surprised. It seems the man can’t decide whether he wants to unass with as much loot as he can get away with or truly fight this thing to the death. Either way, I doubt his reign will last another year.
They guy is so erratic I’m not sure he knows what he wants to do.
| 358 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:48:59pm |
re: #354 marjoriemoon
No apologies needed!
Just sayin’ … there is some confusion, but it’s not malicious.
| 359 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:49:27pm |
Yikes! This is just awful!
Woman claims rape by Libyan military
A Libyan woman who claimed she had been raped and tortured by government soldiers has burst into a Tripoli hotel where foreign journalists are staying to draw attention to her ill-treatment.The woman, who identified herself as Iman Al-Obeidi, stormed into the Rixos hotel at breakfast time and threw open her coat to reveal scars and bruises on her body.
As she screamed “film me, film me, show the whole world all they did to me” she was dragged off by security guards amid scenes of mayhem as all journalists’ attempts to intervene were shoved aside.
She told of being stopped at a Tripoli checkpoint because she was from the rebel stronghold of Benghazi.
“They tied me up and abused me for two days,” she said.
The woman was bundled into a car before she could answer journalists’ questions.
Government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim says she was taken to hospital for checks on her mental health.
“According to our information she was drunk,” he said.
“We are trying to find out who she is, who her family is and whether she was really ill-treated or if it was all just fantasy.”
He added that the woman’s “physical safety” would be assured.
| 360 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:49:52pm |
re: #357 Dark_Falcon
They guy is so erratic I’m not sure he knows what he wants to do.
he wants to kill people, and somebody won’t let him….what a mind fucker
| 361 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:50:26pm |
re: #355 moderatelyradicalliberal
I think her comment was pretty clear. Poverty breeds desperation and despair. This isn’t true of all low income people or poor communities. But in many poor communities the sadness is palpable. There some conditions under which humans just don’t do well in.
And I’ll say it again -
It “all” springs from poverty, poverty “breeds” these things - that’s an insult to a whole heckuva lot of really good people.
But you just go on ahead with it …
| 362 |
Targetpractice Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:50:38pm |
re: #357 Dark_Falcon
They guy is so erratic I’m not sure he knows what he wants to do.
Drug-addled dictators don’t tend to be the most decisive of leaders.
| 363 |
jaunte Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:51:09pm |
re: #359 NJDhockeyfan
Horrible. Nothing the Libyan government says in that story can be believed.
| 364 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:51:29pm |
re: #356 austin_blue
Gee, what happened thirty years ago? i seem to recall something…
Hmm…
Maybe this?
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
Saint Ronnie! He saved us all! What a peach!
Actually, the decade before him, heh Nixon/Ford/Carter
| 365 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:52:05pm |
re: #355 moderatelyradicalliberal
I think her comment was pretty clear. Poverty breeds desperation and despair. This isn’t true of all low income people or poor communities. But in many poor communities the sadness is palpable. There some conditions under which humans just don’t do well in.
Yea, what she said :p
| 366 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:52:37pm |
re: #342 albusteve
you’ve overstepped many times with that wisecrack…fuck you
Let he who has not cracked wise cast the first fuck.
| 367 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:52:43pm |
re: #359 NJDhockeyfan
Yikes! This is just awful!
Woman claims rape by Libyan military
That story is truly a horror. I hope she’s found alive, and I hope she gets the help she needs. But I don’t think that is what will happen. My bet is that her rapists will kill her to keep her quiet.
| 368 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:52:59pm |
re: #353 researchok
Yes, I should have been more clear about that.
Women in general now are attending university at a higher rate than men.
Men it seems, are regressing.
Minority communities are like canaries in the coal mine. A problem first presents there, gets little attention or help, and then you look up and it’s spread to the general population and much harder to address and deeply entrenched.
| 369 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:53:43pm |
re: #362 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Drug-addled dictators don’t tend to be the most decisive of leaders.
Quite Concur. what do you think he’s on?
| 370 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:54:05pm |
| 371 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:54:37pm |
re: #368 moderatelyradicalliberal
Minority communities are like canaries in the coal mine. A problem first presents there, gets little attention or help, and then you look up and it’s spread to the general population and much harder to address and deeply entrenched.
In some cases, I agree.
| 372 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:54:47pm |
re: #353 researchok
Yes, I should have been more clear about that.
Women in general now are attending university at a higher rate than men.
Men it seems, are regressing.
hehe.
No, I don’t think that’s completely it.
I think many men are finding that vo/tech school or community college for a couple of years, coupled with their own abilities and knowledge and knack for things, is really all they need.
Daughter told me something interesting - last semester she took an Animal Science course.
The teacher told them that 20 years ago, the course was 99% guys, and like 90% filled with folks who had grown up on a farm.
TODAY, the course attendees are about 90% women, and very close to zero percent who grew up on a farm.
I thought that was very interesting; it seems to me there are some fields that have evolved from practical application sort of courses, to courses for jobs in research. And that’s where these things change and start attracting more women, for whatever reason.
| 373 |
Targetpractice Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:54:52pm |
re: #367 Dark_Falcon
That story is truly a horror. I hope she’s found alive, and I hope she gets the help she needs. But I don’t think that is what will happen. My bet is that her rapists will kill her to keep her quiet.
Of that, I’ve no doubt. One thing that’s going to come to pass after Gaddafi leaves/expires is an accounting of all the shit that was done by those forces loyal to him. Incidents like this are not going to go over well with whatever government comes to power.
| 374 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:55:39pm |
| 375 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:55:57pm |
re: #357 Dark_Falcon
They guy is so erratic I’m not sure he knows what he wants to do.
I think that since Galyna went back to Ukraine, he may be off his meds.
| 376 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:56:44pm |
re: #361 reine.de.tout
And I’ll say it again -
It “all” springs from poverty, poverty “breeds” these things - that’s an insult to a whole heckuva lot of really good people.
But you just go on ahead with it …
The “all” I was referring to did not mean “all poor people”. Maybe that was your confusion. Upthread from that, they were discussing culture as a reason for crime and arguing if the culture changed, then crime would get better (as I was reading that). Again, Freetoken stated it a lot more clearly, but my point was that crime was an economic issue, not a cultural one.
| 377 |
Targetpractice Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:57:00pm |
re: #369 Dark_Falcon
Quite Concur. what do you think he’s on?
If I had to guess, I’d say cocaine, seems to be the drug of choice for the rich and stupid.
| 378 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:57:06pm |
re: #367 Dark_Falcon
That story is truly a horror. I hope she’s found alive, and I hope she gets the help she needs. But I don’t think that is what will happen. My bet is that her rapists will kill her to keep her quiet.
They probably killed her as soon as they left the hotel. What a bunch of nasty fuckers.
| 379 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:58:07pm |
re: #378 NJDhockeyfan
They probably killed her as soon as they left the hotel. What a bunch of nasty fuckers.
If she’s lucky. I winced when I read about them taking her out.
| 380 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:59:50pm |
re: #372 reine.de.tout
hehe.
No, I don’t think that’s completely it.I think many men are finding that vo/tech school or community college for a couple of years, coupled with their own abilities and knowledge and knack for things, is really all they need.
Daughter told me something interesting - last semester she took an Animal Science course.
The teacher told them that 20 years ago, the course was 99% guys, and like 90% filled with folks who had grown up on a farm.
TODAY, the course attendees are about 90% women, and very close to zero percent who grew up on a farm.
I thought that was very interesting; it seems to me there are some fields that have evolved from practical application sort of courses, to courses for jobs in research. And that’s where these things change and start attracting more women, for whatever reason.
Reine, see this-
Man and Sillyman-How the model of American masculinity became a stoner with an Xbox
It’s great fodder for conversation.
| 381 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 8:59:50pm |
re: #373 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Of that, I’ve no doubt. One thing that’s going to come to pass after Gaddafi leaves/expires is an accounting of all the shit that was done by those forces loyal to him. Incidents like this are not going to go over well with whatever government comes to power.
That’s assuming that those who come to power aren’t doing the same thing right now.
| 382 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:00:28pm |
Meanwhile, down at the other area full of terrorist fuckers…
Hamas military wing says it won’t guarantee Abbas’ safety in Gaza
Senior members of Hamas’ military wing told aides of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas that it would not guarantee the Fatah leader’s safety if he visited the Gaza Strip, Haaretz has learned.
PA officials interpreted these statements as a threat to Abbas. As of last night, an Abbas trip to Gaza for reconciliation talks with Hamas has been dropped from the agenda.
| 383 |
Kragar Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:00:35pm |
Hamas military wing says it won’t guarantee Abbas’ safety in Gaza
Senior members of Hamas’ military wing told aides of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas that it would not guarantee the Fatah leader’s safety if he visited the Gaza Strip, Haaretz has learned.
PA officials interpreted these statements as a threat to Abbas. As of last night, an Abbas trip to Gaza for reconciliation talks with Hamas has been dropped from the agenda.
| 384 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:00:53pm |
re: #378 NJDhockeyfan
They probably killed her as soon as they left the hotel. What a bunch of nasty fuckers.
Indeed. We should set those fellows up with a social engagement. I believe a necktie party is appropriate for men like that.
| 385 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:01:09pm |
re: #380 researchok
Reine, see this-
Man and Sillyman-How the model of American masculinity became a stoner with an Xbox
It’s great fodder for conversation.
I met a few of those guys today!
| 386 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:01:14pm |
re: #379 EmmmieG
If she’s lucky. I winced when I read about them taking her out.
Agreed. I doubt that she had the mercy to die that quickly.
kyrie eleison
| 387 |
Targetpractice Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:03:27pm |
re: #381 SanFranciscoZionist
That’s assuming that those who come to power aren’t doing the same thing right now.
re: #381 SanFranciscoZionist
That’s assuming that those who come to power aren’t doing the same thing right now.
Yeah, it’s situations like these that remind me of a quote from Lord of War:
“Every faction in Africa calls themselves by these noble names - Liberation this, Patriotic that, Democratic Republic of something-or-other… I guess they can’t own up to what they usually are: the Federation of Worse Oppressors Than the Last Bunch of Oppressors. Often, the most barbaric atrocities occur when both combatants proclaim themselves Freedom Fighters. “
| 388 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:03:31pm |
Reine, here’s another more recent article.
Where Have The Good Men Gone?
Kay S. Hymowitz argues that too many men in their 20s are living in a new kind of extended
| 389 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:04:36pm |
re: #384 Dark_Falcon
Indeed. We should set those fellows up with a social engagement. I believe a necktie party is appropriate for men like that.
The AP posted a video of it on YouTube:
My heart goes out to her.
Bastards.
| 390 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:04:50pm |
re: #386 wlewisiii
Agreed. I doubt that she had the mercy to die that quickly.
kyrie eleison
Kind flippant, but the song with that name has always been a favorite of mine:
| 391 |
Kragar Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:06:34pm |
Hamas: We’ll stop firing if Israel stops attacks, too
Maybe they shouldn’t have started shooting in the first place.
| 393 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:08:28pm |
re: #391 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Hamas: We’ll stop firing if Israel stops attacks, too
Maybe they shouldn’t have started shooting in the first place.
Liars.
| 394 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:08:35pm |
re: #391 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Hamas: We’ll stop firing if Israel stops attacks, too
Maybe they shouldn’t have started shooting in the first place.
They can go screw themselves. If they want peace, let them stop their terrorism.
| 395 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:08:52pm |
re: #380 researchok
Reine, see this-
Man and Sillyman-How the model of American masculinity became a stoner with an Xbox
It’s great fodder for conversation.
Interesting!
I did a quick read; will re-read tomorrow.
I think there’s always been a certain percentage of men trapped in permanent adolescence; they’ve always been around. Is the group larger today? eh - I’m not sure it is.
Very interesting article, thanks for pointing it out!
| 396 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:08:56pm |
re: #391 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Hamas: We’ll stop firing if Israel stops attacks, too
Maybe they shouldn’t have started shooting in the first place.
They are just asking for more time to reload their ambulances with rockets.
| 397 |
Targetpractice Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:09:41pm |
re: #391 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Hamas: We’ll stop firing if Israel stops attacks, too
Maybe they shouldn’t have started shooting in the first place.
“Oh shit, we’re getting our asses rocked sideways! Please, give us a ceasefire so that we can rearm and refortify!”
| 398 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:11:19pm |
re: #361 reine.de.tout
And I’ll say it again -
It “all” springs from poverty, poverty “breeds” these things - that’s an insult to a whole heckuva lot of really good people.
But you just go on ahead with it …
I will. Unfortunately too many of my people, including some family members are stuck in what poverty breeds. I don’t need statistics or social scientists to tell me about it. It may offend your sensibilities and you may not like the word “breed” either. But I think being a member of group that’s been ravaged by a crack epidemic, mass incarceration, mass under education and a 70% out of wedlock birth rate gives me an incite that you don’t have. Poverty doesn’t make people bad or defective, but cycles get created from generational poverty that are harder to break, than emulate. Whether or not people stuck in the cycle are good or bad is not the point. For good or for ill, most people have a difficult time breaking away from their upbringing and environment. Culture and opportunities matter. Again, it’s not either/or, it’s both/and. I never said poor people can’t be good people or that poverty makes people bad. I often makes people sad and depressed. Sad and depressed people aren’t prone to self destructive behavior, even when they are good. I don’t see what’s awful about acknowledging it, if you want to help the poor in a wholistic way.
| 399 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:11:33pm |
re: #388 researchok
Reine, here’s another more recent article.
Where Have The Good Men Gone?
Kay S. Hymowitz argues that too many men in their 20s are living in a new kind of extended
They’re still around but most of today’s women won’t find them. We have some fairly serious cultural problems. Mostly revolving around consumerism and false conceptions of “happiness”, selfishness, and ego.I understand the author’s point but she’s barking up the wrong tree.
| 400 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:12:24pm |
re: #388 researchok
Reine, here’s another more recent article.
Where Have The Good Men Gone?
Kay S. Hymowitz argues that too many men in their 20s are living in a new kind of extended
Damn, looks good.
I’m gonna read that one slowly tomorrow, as well. I just printed it so I can give it my full attention, it looks very interesting. I have my own ideas on this topic, but sheesh - would hate to start it up here, I suspect there would be heated disagreement.
| 401 |
Interesting Times Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:12:26pm |
re: #386 wlewisiii
Agreed. I doubt that she had the mercy to die that quickly.
Or, they may try to torture her to the point of “recanting” her story.
I hate humanity sometimes.
| 402 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:12:47pm |
re: #367 Dark_Falcon
That story is truly a horror. I hope she’s found alive, and I hope she gets the help she needs. But I don’t think that is what will happen. My bet is that her rapists will kill her to keep her quiet.
I don’ think that poor woman will ever be seen alive. I’m just blown away by it.
| 403 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:13:01pm |
re: #390 Dark_Falcon
Kind flippant, but the song with that name has always been a favorite of mine:
[Video]
Better recording of the song:
| 404 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:14:24pm |
I used amaranth as a stew thickener tonight. It has some serious potential.
| 405 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:14:50pm |
re: #399 Killgore Trout
They’re still around but most of today’s women won’t find them. We have some fairly serious cultural problems. Mostly revolving around consumerism and false conceptions of “happiness”, selfishness, and ego.I understand the author’s point but she’s barking up the wrong tree.
You think so?
I really need to read it closely.
Then maybe put up a page?
argh.
Or do we want this particular door opened?
The Roi believes many women do not know how to find the good men; that women look for the wrong things in a man. I think he’s got a point; but there’s other stuff going on as well.
| 406 |
jaunte Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:14:51pm |
re: #399 Killgore Trout
She touches on it with this, which also appears to show her preference for what men ‘should’ do:
The knowledge economy gives the educated young an unprecedented opportunity to think about work in personal terms. They are looking not just for jobs but for “careers,” work in which they can exercise their talents and express their deepest passions. They expect their careers to give shape to their identity. For today’s pre-adults, “what you do” is almost synonymous with “who you are,” and starting a family is seldom part of the picture.
| 407 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:16:12pm |
re: #401 publicityStunted
Or, they may try to torture her to the point of “recanting” her story.
I hate humanity sometimes.
Reminds me of 1984. Of course after she recants they’ll likely announce she was killed by a NATO airstrike. God will judge her rapists, we’ll arrange the meeting.
| 408 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:16:15pm |
re: #399 Killgore Trout
They’re still around but most of today’s women won’t find them. We have some fairly serious cultural problems. Mostly revolving around consumerism and false conceptions of “happiness”, selfishness, and ego.I understand the author’s point but she’s barking up the wrong tree.
Actually - this is pretty much what the Roi thinks, as well.
Interesting.
| 409 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:17:03pm |
Of course… this couldn’t happen here…
Police struggle to control hard-core anarchist rioters after 500,000-strong London march against government cuts ends in violence
Extremists brought violent chaos to Central London yesterday after hijacking the much-heralded trade union protest against public spending cuts. Trouble continued to flare late into the night as hundreds of people attempted to hijack yesterday’s massive anti government cuts demonstration.
Read more: [Link: www.dailymail.co.uk…]
If you’re bored, go search LGF for my comments a couple of years ago, when I was predicting the same thing for the US. The “freedom” uprisings in the Middle East, the riots and protests in Greece and Britain, the budget cut protest in Wi. and other rousing complaints.
I’ll say it once again. This is not so much a left/right issue, the real problem is an elitist political class of kleptocrats and plutocrats that have taken over the governments of most nations, western or eastern, theocratic or democratic.
And it’s all coming to a head.
| 410 |
jaunte Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:17:36pm |
re: #404 Killgore Trout
I used amaranth as a stew thickener tonight. It has some serious potential.
Strange grain factoid:
The cultivation of amaranth was banned by the conquistadores upon their conquest of the Aztec nation.[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
| 411 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:17:47pm |
re: #405 reine.de.tout
You think so?
I really need to read it closely.
Then maybe put up a page?
argh.
Or do we want this particular door opened?The Roi believes many women do not know how to find the good men; that women look for the wrong things in a man. I think he’s got a point; but there’s other stuff going on as well.
It’s a complicated topic worth honestly exploring. My views on the subject aren’t really politically correct so I’m a bit guarded on the topic. If you put up a page I’ll be happy to participate in the conversation.
| 412 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:18:12pm |
re: #399 Killgore Trout
They’re still around but most of today’s women won’t find them. We have some fairly serious cultural problems. Mostly revolving around consumerism and false conceptions of “happiness”, selfishness, and ego.I understand the author’s point but she’s barking up the wrong tree.
I wish it were that simple but I believe there’s a whole lot more going on.
There’s the third rail of male/female relationships (easy availability) we don’t talk about as well as a host of other issues, not the least iof which is the notion that men and women are the same, as opposed to being equal.
That said, the cultural issues you raise are integral to the problem.
| 413 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:18:54pm |
re: #390 Dark_Falcon
Kind flippant, but the song with that name has always been a favorite of mine:
[Video]
It’s a fair understanding of the original prayers. For that matter, according to Richard Page (of the band) the entire song is, essentially, a prayer.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
| 414 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:19:31pm |
re: #398 moderatelyradicalliberal
I will. Unfortunately too many of my people, including some family members are stuck in what poverty breeds. I don’t need statistics or social scientists to tell me about it. It may offend your sensibilities and you may not like the word “breed” either. But I think being a member of group that’s been ravaged by a crack epidemic, mass incarceration, mass under education and a 70% out of wedlock birth rate gives me an incite that you don’t have. ….
And you would be really, really wrong about the life experiences I have that give me insight.
| 415 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:19:47pm |
re: #405 reine.de.tout
You think so?
I really need to read it closely.
Then maybe put up a page?
argh.
Or do we want this particular door opened?The Roi believes many women do not know how to find the good men; that women look for the wrong things in a man. I think he’s got a point; but there’s other stuff going on as well.
Here’s something to consider.
| 416 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:20:22pm |
re: #411 Killgore Trout
It’s a complicated topic worth honestly exploring. My views on the subject aren’t really politically correct so I’m a bit guarded on the topic. If you put up a page I’ll be happy to participate in the conversation.
Yeah, my views aren’t exactly politically correct either, and I would also tend to be guarded in how I express them. I’ll read the article, collect my thoughts and see…
| 417 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:20:35pm |
re: #411 Killgore Trout
It’s a complicated topic worth honestly exploring. My views on the subject aren’t really politically correct so I’m a bit guarded on the topic. If you put up a page I’ll be happy to participate in the conversation.
Cool. I’m going to stay out of it, though, because I simply do not understand it. I don’t feel the desire to form romantic attachments, so I don’t have anything to contribute regarding matters of attraction and finding the right person.
| 418 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:20:49pm |
re: #388 researchok
Reine, here’s another more recent article.
Where Have The Good Men Gone?
Kay S. Hymowitz argues that too many men in their 20s are living in a new kind of extended
three different women found me….what’s the problem?
| 419 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:21:22pm |
re: #407 Dark_Falcon
Reminds me of 1984. Of course after she recants they’ll likely announce she was killed by a NATO airstrike. God will judge her rapists, we’ll arrange the meeting.
No character in “1984” recanted anything. After a visit to the Ministry of Love, and a few sessions in Room 101, they 100 percent believed, they honestly couldn’t understand how they could have had ANY other opinion or thought. That’s way beyond recanting… stop using “1984” as some analogy to what you perceive is going on in our world. There is no comparison.
If and when “1984” get here, you’ll know it, and it won’t be like anything you have ever experienced before.
| 420 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:22:09pm |
re: #418 albusteve
three different women found me…what’s the problem?
Yeah.
But there are only so many winning lottery tickets!
| 421 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:22:11pm |
re: #398 moderatelyradicalliberal
Well said. Thank you.
Not to mention the incidents of teen pregnancy is higher among young women in poverty, Black, Hispanic and White included.
| 422 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:23:08pm |
| 423 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:23:47pm |
| 424 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:23:55pm |
re: #419 Walter L. Newton
If and when “1984” get here, you’ll know it, and it won’t be like anything you have ever experienced before.
“O brave new world,
That has such people in’t! “
| 425 |
albusteve Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:24:02pm |
| 426 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:26:02pm |
re: #423 researchok
Groan my ass.
You laughed.
hehe.
I did too.
And to anyone who would like to make any assumptions whatsoever about insight I have or how I got it, please think again. It’s really not a good idea to make any sort of assumptions about somebody you don’t know, and dismiss their thoughts as not having the appropriate “insight” because of an assumption you’ve made about their life experiences. Not a good idea at all, IMO.
| 427 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:26:10pm |
re: #419 Walter L. Newton
No character in “1984” recanted anything. After a visit to the Ministry of Love, and a few sessions in Room 101, they 100 percent believed, they honestly couldn’t understand how they could have had ANY other opinion or thought. That’s way beyond recanting… stop using “1984” as some analogy to what you perceive is going on in our world. There is no comparison.
If and when “1984” get here, you’ll know it, and it won’t be like anything you have ever experienced before.
Good point. Sometimes I misuse the book in that fashion. And I had forgotten for a moment that you were around, you who had adapted the book for the stage. Sorry for the error. I should have used a more direct condemnation of the contempt for others and for the truth shown by tyrants and their lackeys.
| 428 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:26:33pm |
re: #419 Walter L. Newton
No character in “1984” recanted anything. After a visit to the Ministry of Love, and a few sessions in Room 101, they 100 percent believed, they honestly couldn’t understand how they could have had ANY other opinion or thought. That’s way beyond recanting… stop using “1984” as some analogy to what you perceive is going on in our world. There is no comparison.
If and when “1984” get here, you’ll know it, and it won’t be like anything you have ever experienced before.
I read a really interesting sci fi short story a few years back. A man tries to hijack the state tv to read his manifesto, only he finds it’s all a set up because they knew he was going to do that. And, this being sci fi, they can kill him over and over until he gets his apology right.
He gets to where he really, really wants to get his official recant/apology right, but he can’t. In his heart, he knows it’s a lie, and he can’t get around that fact. (He tries to act, but the fake audience just can’t feel the sincerity.)
| 429 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:26:49pm |
re: #399 Killgore Trout
They’re still around but most of today’s women won’t find them. We have some fairly serious cultural problems. Mostly revolving around consumerism and false conceptions of “happiness”, selfishness, and ego.I understand the author’s point but she’s barking up the wrong tree.
I read that the term ‘narcissist’ should no longer be used to reference a personality disorder because, then too many people would be diagnosed with a personality disorder. The past definition for NPD was too broad.
[Link: www.nytimes.com…]
| 430 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:28:21pm |
re: #426 reine.de.tout
hehe.
I did too.And to anyone who would like to make any assumptions whatsoever about insight I have or how I got it, please think again. It’s really not a good idea to make any sort of assumptions about somebody you don’t know, and dismiss their thoughts as not having the appropriate “insight” because of an assumption you’ve made about their life experiences. Not a good idea at all, IMO.
If you get the chance, read the Gender Dance I linked to.
I suspect you’ll find it of interest.
| 431 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:31:24pm |
re: #430 researchok
If you get the chance, read the Gender Dance I linked to.
I suspect you’ll find it of interest.
I have a tab open and will read tomorrow; my brain is too tired and honestly, angry to process anything right now, except I managed to process that my thoughts and opinions on certain topics have been dismissed because I must not have the appropriate “insight”. Arrogance.
| 432 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:32:40pm |
re: #427 Dark_Falcon
Good point. Sometimes I misuse the book in that fashion. And I had forgotten for a moment that you were around, you who had adapted the book for the stage. Sorry for the error. I should have used a more direct condemnation of the contempt for others and for the truth shown by tyrants and their lackeys.
It’s not an error Dark, in my opinion, just a little hyperbole. I spent a lot of time with “Orwel,” not just with his book, in the sense that I read just about everything he wrote that had an emphasis on politics.
And if you really get into his head, you realize that “1984” was in no way a tract against socialism, or the National Socialist or the various other political parties that inhibited his world… except on… totalitarianism… the vilest of the political systems. And nothing anyone in any of these other political systems, including OURS, have come close to experiencing totalitarianism.
| 433 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:32:51pm |
| 434 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:33:42pm |
re: #421 marjoriemoon
Well said. Thank you.
Not to mention the incidents of teen pregnancy is higher among young women in poverty, Black, Hispanic and White included.
Is that pregnancy, or carrying the pregnancy?
Genuine question.
| 435 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:34:11pm |
re: #432 Walter L. Newton
It’s not an error Dark, in my opinion, just a little hyperbole. I spent a lot of time with “Orwel,” not just with his book, in the sense that I read just about everything he wrote that had an emphasis on politics.
And if you really get into his head, you realize that “1984” was in no way a tract against socialism, or the National Socialist or the various other political parties that inhibited his world… except on… totalitarianism… the vilest of the political systems. And nothing anyone in any of these other political systems, including OURS, have come close to experiencing totalitarianism.
Very good point, and thank you, Walter.
| 436 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:34:20pm |
re: #412 researchok
My wife and I are different genders, true.
We’re also different people in a zillion other ways.
Gender is one of the ways we’re different. It is far from the most important way.
I think people put a lot to much time into thinking about what gender is and means. And whether a particular difference between two people has a basis in gender or not.
| 437 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:34:26pm |
re: #431 reine.de.tout
I have a tab open and will read tomorrow; my brain is too tired and honestly, angry to process anything right now, except I managed to process that my thoughts and opinions on certain topics have been dismissed because I must not have the appropriate “insight”. Arrogance.
I’ll bet I can make you laugh with one line.
| 438 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:34:26pm |
re: #426 reine.de.tout
hehe.
I did too.And to anyone who would like to make any assumptions whatsoever about insight I have or how I got it, please think again. It’s really not a good idea to make any sort of assumptions about somebody you don’t know, and dismiss their thoughts as not having the appropriate “insight” because of an assumption you’ve made about their life experiences. Not a good idea at all, IMO.
Then try taking your own advice.
But you just go on ahead with it…….
Is pretty dismissive.
| 439 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:34:32pm |
re: #431 reine.de.tout
I have a tab open and will read tomorrow; my brain is too tired and honestly, angry to process anything right now, except I managed to process that my thoughts and opinions on certain topics have been dismissed because I must not have the appropriate “insight”. Arrogance.
Well, given that you are the reine, I assumed that you had the little people brought in to explain themselves. If they gave the wrong answers, you had them beaten with your scepter.
*grin*
| 440 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:34:59pm |
| 441 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:35:51pm |
re: #436 Obdicut
My wife and I are different genders, true.
We’re also different people in a zillion other ways.
Gender is one of the ways we’re different. It is far from the most important way.
I think people put a lot to much time into thinking about what gender is and means. And whether a particular difference between two people has a basis in gender or not.
At a certain time of day, with the right lighting, the right music on, it’s the most important difference.
| 442 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:36:44pm |
re: #436 Obdicut
My wife and I are different genders, true.
We’re also different people in a zillion other ways.
Gender is one of the ways we’re different. It is far from the most important way.
I think people put a lot to much time into thinking about what gender is and means. And whether a particular difference between two people has a basis in gender or not.
True, of course. But gender differences are defining.
We can share interests, but those interest can change.
We can share values but they can change too,
We can be of divergent interests and values, but we can come together.
Gender differences are forever.
| 443 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:36:55pm |
re: #428 EmmmieG
I read a really interesting sci fi short story a few years back. A man tries to hijack the state tv to read his manifesto, only he finds it’s all a set up because they knew he was going to do that. And, this being sci fi, they can kill him over and over until he gets his apology right.
He gets to where he really, really wants to get his official recant/apology right, but he can’t. In his heart, he knows it’s a lie, and he can’t get around that fact. (He tries to act, but the fake audience just can’t feel the sincerity.)
If you want to read the predecessor to the novel “1984” read “Me,” a dystopian novel by Yevgeny Zamyatin completed in 1921.
You’ll find the semblance to “1984” uncanny (and literary critics have too, and note that Orwell had read the book).
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
| 444 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:37:24pm |
| 445 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:37:26pm |
re: #439 EmmmieG
Well, given that you are the reine, I assumed that you had the little people brought in to explain themselves. If they gave the wrong answers, you had them beaten with your scepter.
*grin*
hehe.
Or a wet noodle? (Ann Landers reference, my gawd, I’m really giving away my age).
| 446 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:37:55pm |
re: #431 reine.de.tout
I have a tab open and will read tomorrow; my brain is too tired and honestly, angry to process anything right now, except I managed to process that my thoughts and opinions on certain topics have been dismissed because I must not have the appropriate “insight”. Arrogance.
That’s how I felt about this comment you made:
But you just go on ahead with it….
Pot meet kettle. You’ve got dismissive and arrogant down pat.
| 447 |
Interesting Times Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:38:22pm |
re: #436 Obdicut
I think people put a lot to much time into thinking about what gender is and means. And whether a particular difference between two people has a basis in gender or not.
Plus, all these “where have all the good men gone single women are successful single men are immature failures oh woe is all of us” tracts completely ignore the dynamics of same-sex relationships, and whether they can teach us anything about their “traditional” counterparts.
| 448 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:38:26pm |
re: #434 SanFranciscoZionist
Is that pregnancy, or carrying the pregnancy?
Genuine question.
I believe teen births are higher among people in poverty.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
Poverty is associated with increased rates of teenage pregnancy.[26] Economically poor countries such as Niger and Bangladesh have far more teenage mothers compared with economically rich countries such as Switzerland and Japan.[50]
The War on Women in this country is a whole other story. Women need to retain their choices.
| 449 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:39:04pm |
| 450 |
jaunte Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:39:08pm |
re: #444 researchok
I’ve been reading your blog for awhile, (before I knew you posted here) and that tagline always gives me a smile.
| 451 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:39:17pm |
re: #444 researchok
Go to my blog and see the tagline just underneath the title.
hahahaha!
Love it.
Damn, can I steal it?
| 452 |
Interesting Times Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:39:33pm |
| 453 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:39:35pm |
re: #436 Obdicut
My wife and I are different genders, true.
We’re also different people in a zillion other ways.
Gender is one of the ways we’re different. It is far from the most important way.
I think people put a lot to much time into thinking about what gender is and means. And whether a particular difference between two people has a basis in gender or not.
Well, it’s an interesting topic, and one that’s got so many moving parts and gears and such that it’s awfully hard to sort out.
My favorite random gender thing is the study that seemed to show that male vervet monkeys prefer cars and stuffed animals, and girl vervet monkeys prefer toy cooking gear and baby dolls.
This was supposed, by a number of people, to show that gender differences are innate.
What they couldn’t explain to me is, since vervet monkeys in the wild don’t drive, cook, or raise human children, how in God’s name they could have some sort of innate attraction to these gendered toys.
I’m still waiting for some sort of rational explanation for this. The best one I’ve heard so far is from a basketball coach at my old school, who believes that females have an innate attraction to small containers, which he believes explains the toy cookware thing.
| 454 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:39:38pm |
| 455 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:40:18pm |
re: #446 moderatelyradicalliberal
That’s how I felt about this comment you made:
Pot meet kettle. You’ve got dismissive and arrogant down pat.
Yes indeed, that describes me to a “T”.
| 456 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:40:19pm |
| 457 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:40:41pm |
re: #442 researchok
True, of course. But gender differences are defining.
We can share interests, but those interest can change.
We can share values but they can change too,
We can be of divergent interests and values, but we can come together.
Gender differences are forever.
Innate gender differences are forever.
Cultural gender differences aren’t necessarily.
Figuring out which is which is absolutely mind-bending at times. (Please see: vervet monkeys.)
| 458 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:41:01pm |
re: #450 jaunte
I’ve been reading your blog for awhile, (before I knew you posted here) and that tagline always gives me a smile.
Were you reading when I was still writing my own stuff?
| 459 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:42:23pm |
re: #457 SanFranciscoZionist
Innate gender differences are forever.
Cultural gender differences aren’t necessarily.
Figuring out which is which is absolutely mind-bending at times. (Please see: vervet monkeys.)
Welcome to my world.
(Though admittedly, the gender thing is it’s own Mt Everest is my business).
| 460 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:42:30pm |
This person tells it like it is. A vast number of rats at HuffPo would not like this.
A culture that celebrates murder
A culture that celebrates murderThe attempt to murder me and my family last week failed. Many times we had waited at the bus stop in Jerusalem where the terrorist left his bomb, but fortunately we were not there when it exploded.
Mary Jean Gardner was not so lucky. She is the 59-year old British woman who perished there. She was a Christian, not a Jew, but that only slightly diminished the celebration that broke out in Gaza over the murder. Both the Islamic Jihad and Hamas praised the bombing, calling it a “natural response to Israeli crimes.” Mary Jean was a spinster whose work was translating the Bible into Togo. How her murder can be characterized as a natural response, rather than a barbaric crime, is a mystery to civilized people everywhere, but apparently not to the celebrants in Gaza.
While Mary Jean was a random victim, the Fogel family was targeted for death. As they slumbered on the Sabbath eve, their killers slipped into their house. Father and mother were slain in their beds. The murderers then stabbed 10-year old Yoav and 4-year old Elad, whose blood soaked into the stuffed animals that lay next to them in their little beds. Finally, the killers hacked to death little baby girl Hadas, just three months old. A few days earlier, she had learned how to raise her head and smile.
Other children in the region had a happier fate than the Fogel children. The next day in Gaza, Palestinians celebrated the murders in the streets. They handed out candy to the children, so that they could learn the sweetness of murdering Jews. Such is the culture of the people for whom Israelis are urged to take risks for peace.
Eric Chevlen MD, Liberty Township
| 461 |
jaunte Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:42:40pm |
re: #453 SanFranciscoZionist
I think vervet monkeys are allowed to drive here in Texas.
| 462 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:43:06pm |
re: #441 EmmmieG
Heh. Only because I’m me. If I was a women, there’d still be plenty of other differences between my wife and I to make that mood-lit musical shebang go down a treat.
The intimacy of crossing the divide between two people is in no way diminished by them sharing a gender.
I don’t think gender matters so much, especially when comparing individuals. Just like genetics, gender might tell a lot, but it can’t tell the actual phenotypic narrative. It’s a starting point or a sounding stone, but it’s not the thing itself.
| 463 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:43:58pm |
re: #457 SanFranciscoZionist
Innate gender differences are forever.
Cultural gender differences aren’t necessarily.
Figuring out which is which is absolutely mind-bending at times. (Please see: vervet monkeys.)
Anne Geddes made a lot of money selling directly to innate female traits.
(All the gentlemen say, “who?”)
| 465 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:44:54pm |
re: #453 SanFranciscoZionist
What they couldn’t explain to me is, since vervet monkeys in the wild don’t drive, cook, or raise human children…
Actually, on rereading this post, I don’t think they do these things even in capitivity.
| 466 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:44:57pm |
| 467 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:45:27pm |
re: #442 researchok
True, of course. But gender differences are defining.
We can share interests, but those interest can change.
We can share values but they can change too,
We can be of divergent interests and values, but we can come together.
Gender differences are forever.
I have no idea what you mean by this, unless you mean that, biologically, you can’t, without a lot of intervention, move away from the gender you started out as.
But certainly I feel differently about my gender now than I did when I was 20, so no, I don’t agree that gender differences are forever.
| 468 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:45:34pm |
re: #465 SanFranciscoZionist
Actually, on rereading this post, I don’t think they do these things even in capitivity.
Well what’s wrong with them?
| 469 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:46:34pm |
re: #467 Obdicut
I have no idea what you mean by this, unless you mean that, biologically, you can’t, without a lot of intervention, move away from the gender you started out as.
But certainly I feel differently about my gender now than I did when I was 20, so no, I don’t agree that gender differences are forever.
Personal perspective, and this is just personal, going through motherhood five times has reinforced my gender concretely.
| 470 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:47:50pm |
re: #460 NJDhockeyfan
This person tells it like it is. A vast number of rats at HuffPo would not like this.
There are lots of cultures that celebrate murder.
One was Chile under Pinochet.
Another was Argentina. “Dirty War” I think was their excuse.
Neither of them, or dozens of others, were any better than the ones in your link.
Or was it OK for them because they were killing people you don’t like?
| 471 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:48:13pm |
re: #469 EmmmieG
Personal perspective, and this is just personal, going through motherhood five times has reinforced my gender concretely.
For most people, gender identification is reinforced over time.
| 472 |
reine.de.tout Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:48:25pm |
re: #449 researchok
I was right.
You laughed.
Yes I did.
One thing - I just scanned the Gender Dance article; in one section some discussion about what makes men and women feel cherished and loved.
The Roi and I had a conversation about this the other day. And one of the things we were talking about, something that Killgore touched on, was that people look to a partner for what the partner brings to them. Which of course, is part of the equation. But there’s another part, and that is that many folks have forgotten, it seems, that we also have to reflect on what it is that WE are bringing to our partner, and that’s an important part of making something work. In order to do that, we have to have an understanding of some of the differences you talked about in that section.
| 473 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:48:41pm |
re: #470 wlewisiii
There are lots of cultures that celebrate murder.
One was Chile under Pinochet.
Another was Argentina. “Dirty War” I think was their excuse.
Neither of them, or dozens of others, were any better than the ones in your link.
Or was it OK for them because they were killing people you don’t like?
Excuse me?
| 474 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:48:42pm |
re: #463 EmmmieG
Anne Geddes made a lot of money selling directly to innate female traits.
(All the gentlemen say, “who?”)
Ugh, I’m a photographer. Shudder.
| 475 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:48:52pm |
re: #452 publicityStunted
Well, you can argue whether in the case of gender reassignment, you’re changing the gender of the person, or merely modifying the body to match the gender identity that really counts, in the brain.
I believe it was one of the first people in the United States to undergo a MtF reassignment who said at the end of her life that she regretted nothing—“But in an ideal world, I wouldn’t have needed to cut off my dick to be as nelly as I wanted to.”
| 476 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:50:15pm |
re: #461 jaunte
I think vervet monkeys are allowed to drive here in Texas.
Can they reach the pedals?
| 477 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:51:37pm |
re: #476 SanFranciscoZionist
Can they reach the pedals?
If my friend in high school, who called himself ‘Mighty Midget’ could reach the pedals, vervet monkeys can.
| 478 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:52:30pm |
re: #470 wlewisiii
There are lots of cultures that celebrate murder.
One was Chile under Pinochet.
Another was Argentina. “Dirty War” I think was their excuse.
Neither of them, or dozens of others, were any better than the ones in your link.
Or was it OK for them because they were killing people you don’t like?
Oh man I read about the “Dirty War” in Latin American history class. Terrible, terrible stuff. And until fairly recently, the murderers got away with it. It was only recently that Videla was convicted of murder.
| 479 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:53:03pm |
re: #460 NJDhockeyfan
This person tells it like it is. A vast number of rats at HuffPo would not like this.
Good stuff. Harsh but good and needed.
| 481 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:54:09pm |
re: #479 Dark_Falcon
Good stuff. Harsh but good and needed.
Sometime harsh is needed to be said to get some people’s attention.
| 482 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:54:12pm |
re: #472 reine.de.tout
Yes I did.
One thing - I just scanned the Gender Dance article; in one section some discussion about what makes men and women feel cherished and loved.
The Roi and I had a conversation about this the other day. And one of the things we were talking about, something that Killgore touched on, was that people look to a partner for what the partner brings to them. Which of course, is part of the equation. But there’s another part, and that is that many folks have forgotten, it seems, that we also have to reflect on what it is that WE are bringing to our partner, and that’s an important part of making something work. In order to do that, we have to have an understanding of some of the differences you talked about in that section.
Yes, there is reciprocal love (most common and easiest) and there is unconditional love.
Reciprocal love exists as long as both parties get something from each other. Most relationships start out that way. It is a Darwinian effort in that we learn the values of sharing and giving. necessary for a healthy family environment. In a healthy relationship, that matures and evolves into unconditional love, as in ‘I love you for who you are and not for what you do for me’.
That process starts with children. We love them though we get nothing tangible in return for quite a while.
| 483 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:54:45pm |
re: #469 EmmmieG
Yeah. I think a lot of my identity got affected by being sexually and physically abused as a kid, by a man. I really hated my own gender, so to speak, for a long time, and puberty was a bit of a nightmare since I was convinced I was becoming a rapist— that’s what I thought the inevitable outcome of any sexual feelings at all would be. This was partially because my parents never talked to me about sex in anything other than a negative way (thanks, repressed Catholic parents!) and portrayed it as dangerous, which I well knew by that time.
But it took me a long time to realize that that man’s identity, his traits, what he was had nothing, at all, in any way to do with me. We shared nothing of any importance. There was nothing to learn from our association except a grave warning.
What has been uplifting and depressing for me throughout my life is the sheer high percentage of my friends who, it turns out, were also abused as kids. I don’t know what the real number is, but it’s much higher than it should be, especially in this country.
Anyway, gender: I liked women a lot as a teenager. Men were the enemy to me, that’s why I started boxing and doing martial arts; luckily I had good teachers and learned pacificism and self-control instead of the violence I craved. I had tons of female friends and confidants.
Eventually I learned that I was putting women on a bit of a pedestal; that I was assuming they were incapable of certain swathes of evil. That was a complex but good lesson.
In the end, each person is a highly unique (and yes, there are degrees of uniqueness) identity, constantly under flux, under free will, and gender is just one more shape bobbing in the darkness of that sea.
| 484 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:55:37pm |
re: #463 EmmmieG
Anne Geddes made a lot of money selling directly to innate female traits.
(All the gentlemen say, “who?”)
I know who Anne Geddes is. :)
I remember that in high school, our psych teacher brought in an article about studies showing that when women are shown pictures of babies, their eyes dilate, and men’s don’t. We were given some photos, put into groups, and told to test it out.
In general, we found it generally held true, although some of the girls didn’t dilate much, and some of the guys dilated a little—except for one young man who dilated like crazy. This was a boy who loved little kids like crazy, and came from a family of really enthusiastic family men, so no one was surprised. But what’s an ‘innate’ difference, when one kid out of thirty completely bucks the trend? And would the results have been different if the boys had been given baby dolls early on, and told how they’d be good daddies from childhood, (which this boy had been)?
| 485 |
freetoken Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:55:50pm |
re: #463 EmmmieG
Anne Geddes made a lot of money selling directly to innate female traits.
Schmaltz on tap.
Sort of like Kinkade selling the light/religion motif.
Now I’ve offended some, for sure.
| 486 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:56:10pm |
| 487 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:56:39pm |
re: #484 SanFranciscoZionist
In that way, gender is a lot like ‘race’. You can define it by any number of traits, but a certain percentage of that group is going to lack some, or all, of those traits.
| 488 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 9:57:25pm |
re: #478 HappyWarrior
Oh man I read about the “Dirty War” in Latin American history class. Terrible, terrible stuff. And until fairly recently, the murderers got away with it. It was only recently that Videla was convicted of murder.
Yes, but don’t just blame those killers. If there had not been violent Communist insurgents at work, there would have been no “Dirty War”. What happened cannot be justified, but don’t think that it was just a fit of paranoia.
| 489 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:00:27pm |
re: #488 Dark_Falcon
Yes, but don’t just blame those killers. If there had not been violent Communist insurgents at work, there would have been no “Dirty War”. What happened cannot be justified, but don’t think that it was just a fit of paranoia.
Sorry DF but I have to down ding that. They were more interested in murdering people like me and my parents. Blue coller workers who dared form unions were suddenly “terrorists” and executed.
There was never a real communist threat there. Only fascists afraid of freedom.
| 490 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:00:48pm |
re: #484 SanFranciscoZionist
I know who Anne Geddes is. :)
I remember that in high school, our psych teacher brought in an article about studies showing that when women are shown pictures of babies, their eyes dilate, and men’s don’t. We were given some photos, put into groups, and told to test it out.
In general, we found it generally held true, although some of the girls didn’t dilate much, and some of the guys dilated a little—except for one young man who dilated like crazy. This was a boy who loved little kids like crazy, and came from a family of really enthusiastic family men, so no one was surprised. But what’s an ‘innate’ difference, when one kid out of thirty completely bucks the trend? And would the results have been different if the boys had been given baby dolls early on, and told how they’d be good daddies from childhood, (which this boy had been)?
Here’s what’s weird: Anne Geddes does nothing for me when I have an infant of my own. It’s when I don’t have a baby around (I can call the 5 year old a baby all I want, he’s not a baby), that it’s like having someone reach in, grab my maternal instincts, and yank.
I know what you mean about the differences. My oldest son is probably more attuned to children than most boys. And, yes, he’s been told he’ll be a great dad. However, his favorite toy is still a nerf gun.
| 491 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:01:58pm |
re: #488 Dark_Falcon
If there had not been violent Communist insurgents at work, there would have been no “Dirty War”.
This is not true, Dark. They still would have killed the journalists, the trade union leaders, the leftists. As they did my friend’s father.
Please don’t give the bastards the excuse. That they were hunting the (quite real) guerrillas was their pretext. Their goal was power, and their enemies were those who supported anything other but them.
| 492 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:02:38pm |
re: #470 wlewisiii
There are lots of cultures that celebrate murder.
One was Chile under Pinochet.
Another was Argentina. “Dirty War” I think was their excuse.
Neither of them, or dozens of others, were any better than the ones in your link.
Or was it OK for them because they were killing people you don’t like?
None of those cultures were killing people I don’t like—but I think it holds true that a nation can have a political culture that celebrate death and violence.
I’m torn on this issue. There is a real cult of martyrdom in much of the Palestinian community, and a concerted effort in much of the Arab world to raise children to see Jews as evil. Is it unique to the Arab world? Hell no. We’ve seen similar things in many places.
Mordechai Kedar wrote an article where he talks about how Arabs are desensitized to violence because they see animals killed for food. Well, bullshit. My grandpa grew up on a farm in Kansas, and saw cows and chickens and pigs slaughtered from an early age. Helped, once he was big enough. He was not a violent man, and he didn’t glorify violence. Rural people everywhere, Jews too, see and saw animals killed for food. When you focus on some crap like that, you’re just reaching for something, anything, to make the ‘other’ scarier.
But a culture of violence, a culture of evil, can exist, and it has, in a lot of times, and a lot of places.
| 493 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:03:37pm |
re: #489 wlewisiii
Sorry DF but I have to down ding that. They were more interested in murdering people like me and my parents. Blue coller workers who dared form unions were suddenly “terrorists” and executed.
There was never a real communist threat there. Only fascists afraid of freedom.
There were also nuns that were murdered too. And DF, I doubt you’d be saying that if it were the other away around (A Communist regime persecuting and murdering “counter-revolutionaries” because they feared being overthrown. Those guys in Argentina and Chile were as evil as Mao, Stalin, and Pol Pot. And I think it was morally wrong to have supported them in the Cold War. The whole basis for anti-Communism should be opposition to authortianism and during hte Cold War we supported many authortiarian regimes explicitly because htey were anti Communist and that was and is wrong.
| 494 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:03:41pm |
re: #483 Obdicut
Thank you for sharing a sensitive subject. I can see how your personal experiences would shape your perspective.
And, lastly, please tell me the individual faced some sort of justice.
| 495 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:03:53pm |
re: #480 jaunte
Teamwork!
One monkey operates the brakes and the gas, one steers…what could go wrong?
| 496 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:04:41pm |
re: #492 SanFranciscoZionist
Understood. But so many want to use the real evil on one hand to whitewash real evil on the other hand. That’s what I was referring to.
| 497 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:05:08pm |
re: #496 wlewisiii
Understood. But so many want to use the real evil on one hand to whitewash real evil on the other hand. That’s what I was referring to.
Who the fuck was doing that?
| 498 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:05:19pm |
re: #485 freetoken
Schmaltz on tap.
Sort of like Kinkade selling the light/religion motif.
Now I’ve offended some, for sure.
I have to admit, the Kinkade pictures appeal to me. I know it’s schlock, but it’s pretty.
| 499 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:05:23pm |
re: #489 wlewisiii
Sorry DF but I have to down ding that. They were more interested in murdering people like me and my parents. Blue coller workers who dared form unions were suddenly “terrorists” and executed.
There was never a real communist threat there. Only fascists afraid of freedom.
I don’t agree. The threat in places like Chile was real. Pinochet overreacted savagely and innocents died. But that does not mean he did not face a real threat. But having smashed that threat (and indeed while smashing it), he then used his ‘state of emergency’ to get rid of anyone he viewed as politically opposed to him in any way. That was his crime and his infamy is well-earned.
| 500 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:06:10pm |
re: #496 wlewisiii
Understood. But so many want to use the real evil on one hand to whitewash real evil on the other hand. That’s what I was referring to.
What is the evil on the other hand?
| 501 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:06:22pm |
re: #494 EmmmieG
Not really. I’m not really into revenge, luckily. I was too screwed up by the encounter— he was a Catholic priest and told me, basically, that I and my family would go to hell if I ever told anyone about it— to talk about it. When I got older and didn’t believe that anymore, I didn’t think anyone would believe me. I wasn’t exactly a model of good behavior. By the time I was ready to talk about it, he had died of old age.
The stupid part of me used to blame myself for not doing anything, since I’m sure he abused others after me. The rational side of me just looks at that eight-year-old me and says “You poor kid.”
| 502 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:06:28pm |
re: #492 SanFranciscoZionist
None of those cultures were killing people I don’t like—but I think it holds true that a nation can have a political culture that celebrate death and violence.
I’m torn on this issue. There is a real cult of martyrdom in much of the Palestinian community, and a concerted effort in much of the Arab world to raise children to see Jews as evil. Is it unique to the Arab world? Hell no. We’ve seen similar things in many places.
Mordechai Kedar wrote an article where he talks about how Arabs are desensitized to violence because they see animals killed for food. Well, bullshit. My grandpa grew up on a farm in Kansas, and saw cows and chickens and pigs slaughtered from an early age. Helped, once he was big enough. He was not a violent man, and he didn’t glorify violence. Rural people everywhere, Jews too, see and saw animals killed for food. When you focus on some crap like that, you’re just reaching for something, anything, to make the ‘other’ scarier.
But a culture of violence, a culture of evil, can exist, and it has, in a lot of times, and a lot of places.
My husband grew up on a farm. He should have been desensitized to see births happen, right?
(Actually, he nearly died during the first childbirth. That was when he looked at our newborn daughter and said, “If she were a goat, she’d be walking by now.” I decided to let him live, mostly because I couldn’t get up.)
| 503 |
jaunte Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:07:37pm |
From twitter: Priorities
Book retailer Borders Group Inc., which is shuttering hundreds of stores in a bid to stay alive, is seeking bankruptcy court approval to hand out as much as $8.3 million in executive bonuses, including nearly $1.7 million to President Mike Edwards.Papers filed with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Manhattan outline a proposed bonus program that is keyed to the company either reorganizing under Chapter 11 or selling itself as a going concern. The bonus proposal is due for review April 14. [Link: online.wsj.com…]
| 504 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:07:45pm |
| 505 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:08:32pm |
| 506 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:08:41pm |
re: #499 Dark_Falcon
By the way, the ‘dirty war’ normally refers to Argentina, not Chile.
What does it matter that he faced a real threat? Most dictators do face a real threat of revolution. How is that a license for them to put that revolution down?
Do you think that if revolutionaries are communists, it’s okay for dictators to shoot them?
| 507 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:08:52pm |
re: #501 Obdicut
Yeah, well, someone’s going to hell. It won’t be an eight year old kid.
| 508 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:09:28pm |
re: #499 Dark_Falcon
I’m going into “agree to disagree” mode right now, DF as I doubt we’ll accomplish anything with continuing the argument tonight. Suffice to say, I disagree and let’s let it stay there.
| 509 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:09:50pm |
re: #492 SanFranciscoZionist
None of those cultures were killing people I don’t like—but I think it holds true that a nation can have a political culture that celebrate death and violence.
I’m torn on this issue. There is a real cult of martyrdom in much of the Palestinian community, and a concerted effort in much of the Arab world to raise children to see Jews as evil. Is it unique to the Arab world? Hell no. We’ve seen similar things in many places.
Mordechai Kedar wrote an article where he talks about how Arabs are desensitized to violence because they see animals killed for food. Well, bullshit. My grandpa grew up on a farm in Kansas, and saw cows and chickens and pigs slaughtered from an early age. Helped, once he was big enough. He was not a violent man, and he didn’t glorify violence. Rural people everywhere, Jews too, see and saw animals killed for food. When you focus on some crap like that, you’re just reaching for something, anything, to make the ‘other’ scarier.
But a culture of violence, a culture of evil, can exist, and it has, in a lot of times, and a lot of places.
SFZ, See Hard Wired for Hate By Lawrence Kemmeleman
| 510 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:10:00pm |
re: #503 jaunte
From twitter: Priorities
The judge ought to use the bonus proposal as toilet paper and slap its authors with a contempt citation. “Hundreds got laid off, but I should still get my bonus!” The arrogance of that is beyond belief.
| 511 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:10:41pm |
re: #502 EmmmieG
My husband grew up on a farm. He should have been desensitized to see births happen, right?
(Actually, he nearly died during the first childbirth. That was when he looked at our newborn daughter and said, “If she were a goat, she’d be walking by now.” I decided to let him live, mostly because I couldn’t get up.)
HOWL.
| 512 |
jaunte Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:11:59pm |
re: #510 Dark_Falcon
It was interesting that someone seems to think that recently hired director-level people are so critical.
Court papers say 70% of the group have been with the company less than 18 months, and many joined Borders less than a year ago.A second $1.2 million bonus program covers 25 “director-level” managers “critical to the debtors’ reorganization and to ongoing business,” court papers say.
| 513 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:12:09pm |
re: #495 SanFranciscoZionist
One monkey operates the brakes and the gas, one steers…what could go wrong?
Isn’t that the basis of all of the 3 Stooges movies?
| 514 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:12:11pm |
I really think that if Pinochet and Videla had been Communists. They’d be remembered with the same contempt that Mao, Stalin, and Pol Pot are. Listen, I understand anti-Communism. Hell I’m anti-Communist myself and I have relatives in Eastern Europe who suffered under it in the Cold War but in democratic societies, you have the right to support Communist ideas without fear of being persecuted because of your beliefs. I understand arresting people who were plotting violence but many of those arrested in South America were students, workers, journalists, and even some members of the clergy thrown in there.
| 515 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:12:23pm |
re: #506 Obdicut
By the way, the ‘dirty war’ normally refers to Argentina, not Chile.
What does it matter that he faced a real threat? Most dictators do face a real threat of revolution. How is that a license for them to put that revolution down?
Do you think that if revolutionaries are communists, it’s okay for dictators to shoot them?
Yes. Communist revolutionaries are scum by definition. They are the enemies of my country, and the enemies of my country are evil by definition.
| 516 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:12:27pm |
| 517 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:13:15pm |
re: #515 Dark_Falcon
Yes. Communist revolutionaries are scum by definition. They are the enemies of my country, and the enemies of my country are evil by definition.
How are communist revolutionaries in a different country, fighting against a dictatorial oppressor, the enemy of your country?
| 518 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:13:29pm |
re: #502 EmmmieG
My husband grew up on a farm. He should have been desensitized to see births happen, right?
(Actually, he nearly died during the first childbirth. That was when he looked at our newborn daughter and said, “If she were a goat, she’d be walking by now.” I decided to let him live, mostly because I couldn’t get up.)
Whenmy daughter was born, I looked at the doctor and nurses and said, “I always believed in God. Now I know.”
| 519 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:14:17pm |
re: #504 NJDhockeyfan
Pizza with pineapple?
I’m probably better off not knowing or I’ll be up all night…
Anyone see the movie “The Road?” Very disturbing. Was the husband’s pic tonight. Viggo Mortensen had a starring role as the father caring for his young son after a nuclear holocaust.
Except for LOTR, does Aragorn have a nekkid clause in his contract? I’ve seen his hiney many a time.
| 520 |
ProBosniaLiberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:14:47pm |
Off topic, but I just read that the the head of the Muslim Brotherhood supported and praised the air-strikes against Qaddafi. The feeling I have on this is that Qaddafi has pushed very far to get to the odd situation. I think we just went through the looking glass.
From Wikipedia:
Qaradawi also expressed his support for the no Fly zone put in place by western nations over Libya, saying “The operation in Libya is to protect the civilians from Gaddafi’s tyranny”, and slamming the Arab League leader Amr Moussa for criticism of it.
| 521 |
jaunte Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:15:31pm |
re: #519 marjoriemoon
Yes, that was the most nightmarish rendition of cannibalism I’ve ever seen.
| 522 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:16:09pm |
Hey all!
You know, when I sign-on I usually ask how everyone is doing. I’m not just being polite, I really am interested.
So, How is everyone and what are we talking about?
| 523 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:16:12pm |
re: #521 jaunte
Yes, that was the most nightmarish rendition of cannibalism I’ve ever seen.
My gawd, I had to stop watching at a few points, but it was well acted and directed.
| 524 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:16:14pm |
| 525 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:16:18pm |
re: #521 jaunte
Yes, that was the most nightmarish rendition of cannibalism I’ve ever seen.
Wow. Way to guarantee that I will never see that movie.
| 526 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:16:45pm |
re: #519 marjoriemoon
If you want an even more nightmarish post-apocalyptic movie:
[Link: www.imdb.com…]
Warning: Nightmarish.
| 528 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:17:05pm |
re: #522 ggt
Hey all!
You know, when I sign-on I usually ask how everyone is doing. I’m not just being polite, I really am interested.
So, How is everyone and what are we talking about?
The banning of anyone with no vowels in their nic,
//
| 529 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:17:11pm |
re: #521 jaunte
Yes, that was the most nightmarish rendition of cannibalism I’ve ever seen.
Yeah, that scene was scary. He’s a talented actor. I saw another one with him fairly recently called “Good” where he plays a professor whose book becomes popular with the Nazi regime and he basically despite having a good Jewish friend becomes part of the party.
| 530 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:17:28pm |
| 531 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:17:46pm |
re: #519 marjoriemoon
I’m probably better off not knowing or I’ll be up all night…
Anyone see the movie “The Road?” Very disturbing. Was the husband’s pic tonight. Viggo Mortensen had a starring role as the father caring for his young son after a nuclear holocaust.
Except for LOTR, does Aragorn have a nekkid clause in his contract? I’ve seen his hiney many a time.
I’m haven’t been keeping up with the exposed hineys in movies. I’ve working so much I only have time to keep up with exposed breasts in movies.
| 532 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:18:08pm |
re: #528 researchok
The banning of anyone with no vowels in their nic,
//
The Hawaiians came and stole them all. Give her a break.
| 533 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:18:38pm |
re: #525 EmmmieG
Wow. Way to guarantee that I will never see that movie.
Had I known, I would have passed. I do like that genre of movies, though, but this was one of the most frightening. Really more psychologically frightening than blood and guts.
Either way, I could have done without it.
| 534 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:18:54pm |
re: #519 marjoriemoon
I’m probably better off not knowing or I’ll be up all night…
Anyone see the movie “The Road?” Very disturbing. Was the husband’s pic tonight. Viggo Mortensen had a starring role as the father caring for his young son after a nuclear holocaust.
Except for LOTR, does Aragorn have a nekkid clause in his contract? I’ve seen his hiney many a time.
I think so. He was nekkid in Eastern promises too. One of my favorite actors BTW.
| 535 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:19:24pm |
re: #520 ProLifeLiberal
Off topic, but I just read that the the head of the Muslim Brotherhood supported and praised the air-strikes against Qaddafi. The feeling I have on this is that Qaddafi has pushed very far to get to the odd situation. I think we just went through the looking glass.
I still don’t trust those rats.
| 536 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:19:37pm |
re: #529 HappyWarrior
Yeah, that scene was scary. He’s a talented actor. I saw another one with him fairly recently called “Good” where he plays a professor whose book becomes popular with the Nazi regime and he basically despite having a good Jewish friend becomes part of the party.
I bet there’s a nekkid scene.
| 537 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:20:46pm |
re: #517 Obdicut
How are communist revolutionaries in a different country, fighting against a dictatorial oppressor, the enemy of your country?
In South America, they were supported by the Soviet Union, and in the three cases where they succeeded (even if only for a decade or so) they immediately became hubs for Soviet efforts to destabilize other regimes and/or were used to support Soviet military assets used to threaten the United States. Such organizations were thus my nation’s enemies.
| 538 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:20:55pm |
re: #521 jaunte
Yes, that was the most nightmarish rendition of cannibalism I’ve ever seen.
+1. I didn’t really expect anything in the movie to frighten me, but the people in that house with missing limbs and body parts on meat hooks……..good Lord.
| 539 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:20:56pm |
re: #515 Dark_Falcon
Yes. Communist revolutionaries are scum by definition. They are the enemies of my country, and the enemies of my country are evil by definition.
No DF.
When I joined the US Army I vowed to protect and defend the constitution.
Not an ideology, not a flag but a set of concrete rules for a pluralistic society. By it’s very definition it must allow things, at least at the level of discourse, that are abhorrent to it’s ideals,. This is why the Nazi’s can march & why this one guy is still out there every day trying to sell Trotskyite newspapers (Socialist Worker. Funny folks to this socialist.) down on State Street. I occasionally buy a copy when the Onion isn’t satyrical enough ;)
There is enough evil in this world. Having a different idea of how to accomplish the ideals of this nation is not evil in itself. Violence, yes. Ideas, no.
| 540 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:21:07pm |
| 541 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:21:18pm |
re: #524 Slumbering Behemoth
What a fucking punk. I hope the FBI takes him in and questions the shit out of him. I can’t stand that shitbag.
| 542 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:21:23pm |
re: #535 NJDhockeyfan
I still don’t trust those rats.
I don’t think any reasonable person does. Unfortunately, there are a lot of unreasonable (well, Whacko™) people screaming freakazoid things about them, that may or may not be true, but which make reasonable people not want be on the same side as the unreasonable.
does that make any sense?
| 543 |
ProBosniaLiberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:21:40pm |
re: #535 NJDhockeyfan
Neither do I, but seeing that was a bit of shock. It’s really bizarre how the Muslim Brotherhood is saying this, with the way they act towards us and Europe usually.
| 544 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:22:22pm |
re: #522 ggt
Hey all!
You know, when I sign-on I usually ask how everyone is doing. I’m not just being polite, I really am interested.
So, How is everyone and what are we talking about?
I am basically OK, although my life is taking several weird turns right now.
We seem to be discussing gender differences, babies, Anne Geddes, vervet monkeys, Pinochet, the Dirty War, and Palestinian political culture.
Also, I put up in the Pages a link to 40-minute analysis on the part of Glenn Beck about how Libya is a precursor to Israel.
I haven’t watched this myself, since watching Glenn Beck makes me manic, but if anyone wanted to watch it and give me the highlights, that would be cool.
| 545 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:22:22pm |
re: #539 wlewisiii
No DF.
When I joined the US Army I vowed to protect and defend the constitution.
Not an ideology, not a flag but a set of concrete rules for a pluralistic society. By it’s very definition it must allow things, at least at the level of discourse, that are abhorrent to it’s ideals,. This is why the Nazi’s can march & why this one guy is still out there every day trying to sell Trotskyite newspapers (Socialist Worker. Funny folks to this socialist.) down on State Street. I occasionally buy a copy when the Onion isn’t satyrical enough ;)
There is enough evil in this world. Having a different idea of how to accomplish the ideals of this nation is not evil in itself. Violence, yes. Ideas, no.
Damn that was well said. Updinged of course.
| 546 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:22:27pm |
re: #542 ggt
I don’t think any reasonable person does. Unfortunately, there are a lot of unreasonable (well, Whacko™) people screaming freakazoid things about them, that may or may not be true, but which make reasonable people not want be on the same side as the unreasonable.
does that make any sense?
3 pointer.
| 547 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:22:52pm |
re: #537 Dark_Falcon
In South America, they were supported by the Soviet Union, and in the three cases where they succeeded (even if only for a decade or so) they immediately became hubs for Soviet efforts to destabilize other regimes and/or were used to support Soviet military assets used to threaten the United States. Such organizations were thus my nation’s enemies.
It’s sad to me that the words “socialism” and “communism” are going the way of “fascism” in becoming simply swear words. The concepts behind them are lost in the minds of many in our society.
| 548 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:22:54pm |
| 549 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:23:35pm |
I think the scariest and disturbing movies for me personally are ones that show the worst of humanity. Especially movies based off of true stories.
| 550 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:24:07pm |
re: #530 EmmmieG
He’s 29? He doesn’t come across as being that old.
This, you see, is what happens when men don’t go into the army at eighteen, marry at twenty-three, and have five kids before they’re thirty. They turn out like this.
(Actually, my mother’s father followed that path, and he was a complete flake, so it doesn’t always take, I guess.)
| 551 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:24:37pm |
re: #544 SanFranciscoZionist
I am basically OK, although my life is taking several weird turns right now.
We seem to be discussing gender differences, babies, Anne Geddes, vervet monkeys, Pinochet, the Dirty War, and Palestinian political culture.
Also, I put up in the Pages a link to 40-minute analysis on the part of Glenn Beck about how Libya is a precursor to Israel.
I haven’t watched this myself, since watching Glenn Beck makes me manic, but if anyone wanted to watch it and give me the highlights, that would be cool.
vervet monkies? Perhaps it is best I don’t know more.
I don’t think I’ll be watching your link. I think I could find ants or earthworms to watch for 40 minutes instead :)
| 552 |
ProBosniaLiberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:25:07pm |
And off to bed I go. I wan’t on much, as I was testing Chrome. My conclusion is that it is awesome.
| 553 |
Lidane Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:25:27pm |
re: #547 ggt
The concepts behind them are lost in the minds of many in our society.
So are the differences between them. Fascist, socialist, communist, and Nazi are used interchangeably when they’re not the same thing at all. We’re not learning anything about nuances in ideology.
| 554 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:25:38pm |
re: #541 NJDhockeyfan
What a fucking punk. I hope the FBI takes him in and questions the shit out of him. I can’t stand that shitbag.
Quite Concur. I’m sure glad Charles booted his ass out of here.
| 555 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:25:50pm |
re: #537 Dark_Falcon
Aren’t dictators also the enemy of America, Dark?
How on earth does any amount of Cold-War rationalization make you ever pick the man oppressing his people over those people lifting a weapon to fight that oppression? Those people who fought tyranny and died did indeed have ideals that I think were unworkable, but I also think they were sincere. Most of those fighters were fighting against the oppression— oppression that the US often supported. That they were also communists seems less important; they were idealistic communists, for whom communism is freedom. I think that’s an error in thinking but I don’t think it deserves a bullet in the head.
I’m sure many of those revolting against Qaddafi are not, and never will be, friends of the US. I don’t begrudge them their right to revolution against their oppressor simply because they share a different ideology. I will judge them on how they go about establishing and executing that ideology.
| 556 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:25:56pm |
re: #549 HappyWarrior
I think the scariest and disturbing movies for me personally are ones that show the worst of humanity. Especially movies based off of true stories.
The Road scarred me the same way Deliverance did. I can take vampires, werewolves, zombies, ghosts, demons, ghouls and goblins, but the human monsters always scare me the most.
| 557 |
researchok Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:26:00pm |
re: #552 ProLifeLiberal
And off to bed I go. I wan’t on much, as I was testing Chrome. My conclusion is that it is awesome.
I use it- faster and way better than FF IMO.
| 558 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:26:15pm |
re: #543 ProLifeLiberal
Neither do I, but seeing that was a bit of shock. It’s really bizarre how the Muslim Brotherhood is saying this, with the way they act towards us and Europe usually.
I posted a link earlier to a story about the rebels admitting members of al-Qaeda are fighting along them against Mo’s forces. I can understand why MB is supporting them.
| 559 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:27:05pm |
re: #539 wlewisiii
No DF.
When I joined the US Army I vowed to protect and defend the constitution.
Not an ideology, not a flag but a set of concrete rules for a pluralistic society. By it’s very definition it must allow things, at least at the level of discourse, that are abhorrent to it’s ideals,. This is why the Nazi’s can march & why this one guy is still out there every day trying to sell Trotskyite newspapers (Socialist Worker. Funny folks to this socialist.) down on State Street. I occasionally buy a copy when the Onion isn’t satyrical enough ;)
There is enough evil in this world. Having a different idea of how to accomplish the ideals of this nation is not evil in itself. Violence, yes. Ideas, no.
Once they escalate to acts of violence, supported by a hostile foreign power, everything changes. And that’s what I was talking about.
| 561 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:27:45pm |
re: #556 moderatelyradicalliberal
The Road scarred me the same way Deliverance did. I can take vampires, werewolves, zombies, ghosts, demons, ghouls and goblins, but the human monsters always scare me the most.
We definitely share the same view on this.
| 562 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:28:20pm |
re: #539 wlewisiii
why this one guy is still out there every day trying to sell Trotskyite newspapers (Socialist Worker. Funny folks to this socialist.) down on State Street. I occasionally buy a copy when the Onion isn’t satyrical enough ;)
The Trotskyites are a pain in the ass. But for real comic reading, I suggest the Maoist Internationalist Movement’s “MIM Notes”.
I wish I had access to a steady supply of these comic gems, but I’m not going to give the Maoist Internationalist Movement my address, so I’m reduced to scoring them once in a blue moon at a BART station.
Their movie reviews are AWESOME. Also, once, they ran an album review of a Queen Latifah release. They had confused her with Sister Souljah—this became clear after careful reading—so they were a bit disappointed that she’d apparently sold out and started releasing bourgeois love songs.
| 563 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:29:10pm |
re: #553 Lidane
So are the differences between them. Fascist, socialist, communist, and Nazi are used interchangeably when they’re not the same thing at all. We’re not learning anything about nuances in ideology.
I think because examples of each have always been totalitarian ideological systems and usually one-party political systems with gruesome outcomes, people lump them together.
Lack of interest in history and lots of bad rhetoric add to the problem.
Try to explain that they all are really Economic systems and eyes will glaze over.
| 564 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:30:09pm |
re: #563 ggt
Fascism definitely isn’t primarily an economic system.
| 565 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:30:55pm |
re: #562 SanFranciscoZionist
The Trotskyites are a pain in the ass. But for real comic reading, I suggest the Maoist Internationalist Movement’s “MIM Notes”.
I wish I had access to a steady supply of these comic gems, but I’m not going to give the Maoist Internationalist Movement my address, so I’m reduced to scoring them once in a blue moon at a BART station.
Their movie reviews are AWESOME. Also, once, they ran an album review of a Queen Latifah release. They had confused her with Sister Souljah—this became clear after careful reading—so they were a bit disappointed that she’d apparently sold out and started releasing bourgeois love songs.
When I worked in DC, the LaRouchites were always handing out their newspaper. I took one home with me once. Hilariously crazy stuff. I for one would love to read a Hoxhaist paper since Enver Hoxha was so nuts that he split from Mao because Mao had gotten too “revisionist” for him. I did a group paper on Albania last spring. Fascinating guy since he was so out there.
| 566 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:31:23pm |
re: #541 NJDhockeyfan
What a fucking punk. I hope the FBI takes him in and questions the shit out of him. I can’t stand that shitbag.
Barrett Brown, Barrett Brown
He’s a clown, that Barrett Brown
He’s gonna get caught
Just you wait and see
(Why’s everybody always pickin’ on me)
| 567 |
Varek Raith Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:31:24pm |
re: #328 recusancy
Completely uncalled for.
Sheesh.
| 568 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:32:14pm |
re: #561 HappyWarrior
We definitely share the same view on this.
Kinda like at the end of 28 Days Later when the military guys who want to rape the two female characters end up being scarier than the infected zombies. I went from being mildly afraid of the zombies to being terrified that a woman and a 14 year old girl was going to be gang raped. At least zombies couldn’t help what they were.
| 569 |
Lidane Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:32:15pm |
re: #563 ggt
Lack of interest in history and lots of bad rhetoric add to the problem.
Especially when there are people trying to redefine history and social studies classes to ignore facts and cater to an agenda (see: Texas SBOE).
| 570 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:33:31pm |
| 571 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:33:51pm |
re: #562 SanFranciscoZionist
The Trotskyites are a pain in the ass. But for real comic reading, I suggest the Maoist Internationalist Movement’s “MIM Notes”.
I wish I had access to a steady supply of these comic gems, but I’m not going to give the Maoist Internationalist Movement my address, so I’m reduced to scoring them once in a blue moon at a BART station.
Their movie reviews are AWESOME. Also, once, they ran an album review of a Queen Latifah release. They had confused her with Sister Souljah—this became clear after careful reading—so they were a bit disappointed that she’d apparently sold out and started releasing bourgeois love songs.
Oy! How could I forget those freaks? I’m a pretty old school Mike Harrington socialist, so they’re all nuts to me (not to mention me to them, heh). Still some really are more insane than others and they are at the top of the dog pile.
| 572 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:33:53pm |
re: #556 moderatelyradicalliberal
The Road scarred me the same way Deliverance did. I can take vampires, werewolves, zombies, ghosts, demons, ghouls and goblins, but the human monsters always scare me the most.
I have a certain intrigue with End of the World movies. I even watch War of the Worlds, the Tom Cruise version which completely sucks, but the graphics are most awesome.
Btw, there’s a part at the end where the parents or grandparents come out to see him. There’s this very dramatic pause and I always say, “So, how was your flight? Any turbulence? Come, I’ll get you a nosh.”
I was unprepared for The Road.
| 573 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:35:11pm |
re: #566 SanFranciscoZionist
Barrett Brown, Barrett Brown
He’s a clown, that Barrett Brown
He’s gonna get caught
Just you wait and see
(Why’s everybody always pickin’ on me)
Ha ha ha ha ha!
| 574 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:35:53pm |
re: #562 SanFranciscoZionist
The Trotskyites are a pain in the ass. But for real comic reading, I suggest the Maoist Internationalist Movement’s “MIM Notes”.
I wish I had access to a steady supply of these comic gems, but I’m not going to give the Maoist Internationalist Movement my address, so I’m reduced to scoring them once in a blue moon at a BART station.
Their movie reviews are AWESOME. Also, once, they ran an album review of a Queen Latifah release. They had confused her with Sister Souljah—this became clear after careful reading—so they were a bit disappointed that she’d apparently sold out and started releasing bourgeois love songs.
LOL! I read an addition of the Nation of Islam’s The Final Call once out of curiosity. I had quite a few hearty chuckles. It was as if the whole thing was written by Homey the Clown. C…O…N…spiracy.
| 575 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:36:02pm |
re: #570 ggt
Well, mostly it’s unworkable. But it’s a militarily expansionist tightly hierarchical in-culture, based on the premise that the group is naturally superior to those outside the group. The economics of it aren’t that relevant.
| 576 |
Lidane Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:36:10pm |
re: #570 ggt
What is it?
Political, mostly. Everything is for the advancement of the state and of a collective national identity.
| 577 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:36:57pm |
re: #564 Obdicut
Fascism definitely isn’t primarily an economic system.
Huh? That’s, oh, 90% of the baseline definition of fascism. It’s all about who controls the way money is made and controlled by both government and non-government agencies.
| 578 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:36:58pm |
re: #575 Obdicut
Well, mostly it’s unworkable. But it’s a militarily expansionist tightly hierarchical in-culture, based on the premise that the group is naturally superior to those outside the group. The economics of it aren’t that relevant.
Not a Third-way? an Attempt to combine Capitalism and Socialism?
| 579 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:37:12pm |
Speaking of Communism. As someone whose main field of study/interest in history is post Napoloenic wars history, I find the differences within the Communist movement the most fascinating. People who are not so well educated tned to think that all Communists think the same but that’s totally not the case. Hell even varies in countries since Deng Xiaopeng in China had a totally different outlook than Mao.
| 580 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:38:21pm |
re: #579 HappyWarrior
Speaking of Communism. As someone whose main field of study/interest in history is post Napoloenic wars history, I find the differences within the Communist movement the most fascinating. People who are not so well educated tned to think that all Communists think the same but that’s totally not the case. Hell even varies in countries since Deng Xiaopeng in China had a totally different outlook than Mao.
I don’t think all Capitalists think the same either.
Each has a myriad of flavors …
| 581 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:38:25pm |
re: #577 wlewisiii
Huh? That’s, oh, 90% of the baseline definition of fascism. It’s all about who controls the way money is made and controlled by both government and non-government agencies.
I disagree entirely. I think the heart of fascism is the definition of who is in-group and who isn’t.
| 582 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:38:31pm |
re: #565 HappyWarrior
When I worked in DC, the LaRouchites were always handing out their newspaper. I took one home with me once. Hilariously crazy stuff. I for one would love to read a Hoxhaist paper since Enver Hoxha was so nuts that he split from Mao because Mao had gotten too “revisionist” for him. I did a group paper on Albania last spring. Fascinating guy since he was so out there.
My father likes to talk to the LaRouchites. Specifically, he questions them about the whole Masonic conspiracy thing. He wants to know how far up the Masonic ranks you have to get before you learn about the whole conspiracy. He talks about how his father and grandfather were Masons—were they in on it? Also, his mother was in Eastern Star…do the women get let in on it?
He will do this until someone—usually my mother or I—bodily drags him away.
| 583 |
Lidane Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:38:40pm |
re: #578 ggt
Not a Third-way? an Attempt to combine Capitalism and Socialism?
It rejects both Capitalism and Socialism, IIRC.
| 584 |
Obdicut Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:39:21pm |
re: #578 ggt
Not a Third-way? an Attempt to combine Capitalism and Socialism?
No, not at all. Capitalism and socialism are combined all the time, anyway. Most of the countries Germany fought were combinations of capitalism and socialism, like us.
| 585 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:39:38pm |
re: #568 moderatelyradicalliberal
Kinda like at the end of 28 Days Later when the military guys who want to rape the two female characters end up being scarier than the infected zombies. I went from being mildly afraid of the zombies to being terrified that a woman and a 14 year old girl was going to be gang raped. At least zombies couldn’t help what they were.
Also, the zombies are fictional…shit that could really happen to you is scarier than shit that couldn’t.
| 586 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:39:41pm |
re: #576 Lidane
Political, mostly. Everything is for the advancement of the state and of a collective national identity.
The power of the state is what differeniates Mussolini style Italian fascism with Nazism. Mussolini was a bigot but it was the power of the state more than race that mattered to him. I really would like to learn more about Franco personally since I don’t know if he was more like Hitler of Mussolini. I’d assume more Mussolini like given that Nazism with its obsession with the occult and other weird things was unique and Franco was a devout Catholic.
| 587 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:39:47pm |
re: #572 marjoriemoon
I have a certain intrigue with End of the World movies. I even watch War of the Worlds, the Tom Cruise version which completely sucks, but the graphics are most awesome.
Btw, there’s a part at the end where the parents or grandparents come out to see him. There’s this very dramatic pause and I always say, “So, how was your flight? Any turbulence? Come, I’ll get you a nosh.”
I was unprepared for The Road.
Me either. They way that guy looked at the boy like he could decide what he wanted more: to rape him or eat him. Gave me the chills big time. Also, just the concept of no life on earth at all. No animals, not plants, no people. I’d rather go in the nuclear blast.
| 588 |
Varek Raith Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:39:49pm |
re: #582 SanFranciscoZionist
My father likes to talk to the LaRouchites. Specifically, he questions them about the whole Masonic conspiracy thing. He wants to know how far up the Masonic ranks you have to get before you learn about the whole conspiracy. He talks about how his father and grandfather were Masons—were they in on it? Also, his mother was in Eastern Star…do the women get let in on it?
He will do this until someone—usually my mother or I—bodily drags him away.
Lol.
I’d stand there and watch.
Also, need popcorn.
:)
| 589 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:41:34pm |
re: #581 Obdicut
I disagree entirely. I think the heart of fascism is the definition of who is in-group and who isn’t.
George Orwell has a wonderful essay on Fascism.
It ends:
It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley’s broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.Yet underneath all this mess there does lie a kind of buried meaning. To begin with, it is clear that there are very great differences, some of them easy to point out and not easy to explain away, between the régimes called Fascist and those called democratic. Secondly, if ‘Fascist’ means ‘in sympathy with Hitler’, some of the accusations I have listed above are obviously very much more justified than others. Thirdly, even the people who recklessly fling the word ‘Fascist’ in every direction attach at any rate an emotional significance to it. By ‘Fascism’ they mean, roughly speaking, something cruel, unscrupulous, arrogant, obscurantist, anti-liberal and anti-working-class. Except for the relatively small number of Fascist sympathizers, almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. That is about as near to a definition as this much-abused word has come.
But Fascism is also a political and economic system. Why, then, cannot we have a clear and generally accepted definition of it? Alas! we shall not get one — not yet, anyway. To say why would take too long, but basically it is because it is impossible to define Fascism satisfactorily without making admissions which neither the Fascists themselves, nor the Conservatives, nor Socialists of any colour, are willing to make. All one can do for the moment is to use the word with a certain amount of circumspection and not, as is usually done, degrade it to the level of a swearword.
| 590 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:41:37pm |
re: #585 SanFranciscoZionist
Also, the zombies are fictional…shit that could really happen to you is scarier than shit that couldn’t.
And that’s exactly why the human evil is scarier. Even if it’s fictional, it’s not made up. You can’t really imagine anything that human beings don’t already do to each other.
| 591 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:42:38pm |
re: #578 ggt
Not a Third-way? an Attempt to combine Capitalism and Socialism?
Then, there’s Bob Avakian’s New Synthesis. I have no idea WHAT Bob Avakian’s New Synthesis actually is, because I won’t go close enough to his followers to find out. I understand that if one of them bites you, it’s all over…
| 592 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:42:38pm |
re: #581 Obdicut
I disagree entirely. I think the heart of fascism is the definition of who is in-group and who isn’t.
No, that’s called high school. ;p
| 593 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:43:15pm |
re: #581 Obdicut
I disagree entirely. I think the heart of fascism is the definition of who is in-group and who isn’t.
I have a feeling we’re drawing different conclusions based on the differences between the three primary groups we’re talking about - Germany, Spain & Italy.
Hopefully we can pick this up again in the near future, I hear the calling of my pillow louder than anything else at the moment.
G’night all!
| 594 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:43:26pm |
re: #581 Obdicut
I disagree entirely. I think the heart of fascism is the definition of who is in-group and who isn’t.
With the Nazis, I’d say that’s correct. It was different in Italy. There it was much more about economics. But then again, Mussolini did not have Hitler’s burning need for revenge and neither did Italy. Both Germany and its Fuher felt they’d been greatly wronger and that played a critical role in the path the Nazis took.
| 595 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:44:32pm |
G’nite all. Crashing hard here.
| 596 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:46:47pm |
I really need to read the Anthony Beevor book I got on the Spanish Civil War. It was an important event in the 20th century yet one that is seldom taught and mentioned in schools. The number of foreign volunteers that both sides had is something really intriguing to me.
| 598 |
FemNaziBitch Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:48:17pm |
A while back, Lizards had several discussions concerning “fascism”.
Of what I remember, fascism as
an Economic system, is the “Third-Way”, an attempt to combine Capitalism and Socialism
As a Political System it is One-Party
As an Ideology it is Totalitarian.
| 599 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:48:59pm |
re: #591 SanFranciscoZionist
Then, there’s Bob Avakian’s New Synthesis. I have no idea WHAT Bob Avakian’s New Synthesis actually is, because I won’t go close enough to his followers to find out. I understand that if one of them bites you, it’s all over…
Communist Zombies!!1
| 600 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:49:01pm |
re: #596 HappyWarrior
I really need to read the Anthony Beevor book I got on the Spanish Civil War. It was an important event in the 20th century yet one that is seldom taught and mentioned in schools. The number of foreign volunteers that both sides had is something really intriguing to me.
If you haven’t seen Pan’s Labyrinth, I recommend it in conjunction with that. Great movie. Sad.
And they speak Spanish funny, but I suppose they can’t help it.
| 601 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:51:53pm |
| 602 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:52:27pm |
re: #600 SanFranciscoZionist
If you haven’t seen Pan’s Labyrinth, I recommend it in conjunction with that. Great movie. Sad.
And they speak Spanish funny, but I suppose they can’t help it.
Yeah I need to see that.
| 604 |
prairiefire Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:58:23pm |
| 605 |
Lidane Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:58:43pm |
re: #599 Dark_Falcon
Communist Zombies!!1
Speaking of zombies, I saw a pair of truly awful Kung Fu films from Hong Kong, and I’ve seen a lot of really bad Kung Fu films.
Hopping vampires! Awful dubbing! Cheesy dialogue! A zombie midget! They were gloriously, hilariously bad movies. I laughed.
| 606 |
What, me worry? Sat, Mar 26, 2011 10:59:24pm |
re: #597 prairiefire
Yeah, he winds me up.
Oops, wrong Bootsy clip!
I’d like to see the Black punk, glam funk make a comeback.
Ok, off to bed with me.
| 608 |
austin_blue Sat, Mar 26, 2011 11:00:06pm |
re: #600 SanFranciscoZionist
If you haven’t seen Pan’s Labyrinth, I recommend it in conjunction with that. Great movie. Sad.
And they speak Spanish funny, but I suppose they can’t help it.
The entire movie takes place in the first five minutes. The rest is just exposition. You just don’t realize until the end. Brilliant film.
| 609 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Mar 26, 2011 11:03:53pm |
I think there’s so much in history and literature that hasn’t been adapted in to movies that it’s a real shame really. My favorite movies tend to historical ones that focus on parts of history that have either been ignored or on parts of history that are explored but explore them from a new perspective. The Daniel Craig movie about the Belarussian Jewish partisan brothers was one of my favorites of the past few years.
| 610 |
austin_blue Sat, Mar 26, 2011 11:04:37pm |
re: #605 Lidane
Speaking of zombies, I saw a pair of truly awful Kung Fu films from Hong Kong, and I’ve seen a lot of really bad Kung Fu films.
Hopping vampires! Awful dubbing! Cheesy dialogue! A zombie midget! They were gloriously, hilariously bad movies. I laughed.
One of my favorite bad translations in a Hong Kong flick:
“I have you by the short rabbits! Surrender!”
And a big thank you to Vulcan Video in the ‘04 for pointing that out.
| 611 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Mar 27, 2011 7:14:14am |
re: #605 Lidane
Speaking of zombies, I saw a pair of truly awful Kung Fu films from Hong Kong, and I’ve seen a lot of really bad Kung Fu films.
Hopping vampires! Awful dubbing! Cheesy dialogue! A zombie midget! They were gloriously, hilariously bad movies. I laughed.
Great bad dubbing….
| 612 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Mar 27, 2011 2:52:39pm |
testing something…
Where’s the birth certificate?
| 613 |
Interesting Times Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:41:11am |
re: #612 Charles
I think the wingnut font tag got messed up somehow :( It no longer shows up correctly when you preview a post, or when you link directly to a comment. And even though I hit “quote” for your post here, the blockquote tags are empty.
I’m using FF 4. Haven’t checked in other browsers yet.
| 614 |
iceweasel Mon, Mar 28, 2011 8:42:27am |
re: #613 publicityStunted
I think the wingnut font tag got messed up somehow :( It no longer shows up correctly when you preview a post, or when you link directly to a comment. And even though I hit “quote” for your post here, the blockquote tags are empty.
I’m using FF 4. Haven’t checked in other browsers yet.
I couldn’t get it to work in the Cashill page I did either.
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