Right Wing Commenters: ‘The Muslim Rats Need to Be Exterminated’

An orgy of violent wingnut fantasizing
Wingnuts • Views: 45,420

If you want to see how deranged the commenting sections of right wing blogs have gotten, just go read any of their posts about the violence in Afghanistan. Gateway Pundit, Hot Air, Pamela “Shrieking Harpy” Geller, Fox Nation — all of them are packed with comments calling for genocide against Muslims.

Here’s a tiny excerpt of this massive hatefest, taken from the popular right wing blogs mentioned above:

#2 April 2, 2011 at 8:32 am
Mark1957 commented:

There is no such thing as a moderate muslim, only those who commit atrocities like this and those that keep their mouths shut when atrocities happen. The only good muslim is a dead one.

[…]

#9 April 2, 2011 at 8:41 am
Big L commented:

the Islams are enraged because they spent their youth crapping on their mom and their
adult male family members tapping them in the a**. Imo, of course. But all sexual repression and abuse. Also they are nuts.
and the Imams havea scam going to rake in the dough.Go to Titty bars with the money in the west.
and we have Rules for Engagement that prevents bombing these savages.Everything is Marquis-de-Queensbury rules…Afghan should have been,province by privince. a flat,glass-topped coffe table.
Then can patrol for 50 miles, anything pops head up:Bang or “Budda-Budda-Buddda”

[…]

#11 April 2, 2011 at 8:54 am
ar05075 commented:

Islaminals don’t need an excuse to murder, they’re disgusting vermin and ALL of them should be shot on site. Everywhere and anywhere. Now, I’ve got to get back to my bonfire of the rag book.

[…]

#41 April 2, 2011 at 2:24 pm
Billy commented:

the muslim rats need to be exterminated

[…]

Grimcargo said in reply to Frank…
What you can conclude is, this is evil impersonating human beings. They can not be reasoned with nor trusted to live in civilization. All you can do is herd them. Place all of them on some isolated island together and hope they kill each other.

[…]

Gleaner1 said…
Pastor Jones is a very brave Christian, and a clear example of the action we all need to take in order to confront and destroy that affliction on the minds of backward men, islam. That we, the free men of the West will, by degree, have to fight to defend our families and freedom is becoming more widely understood. Christians, be of good heart, you have nothing to fear, you’re cause is just, the Lord of hosts is with you. Gleaner 1.

[…]

patrick said…
when is the world going to wake up to the fact that islam is not compatable with civilized society. It can’t get along with any other religion or peoples. we must all band together and get ride of it before it destroys us all

[…]

fern said…
They are not human, they are cruel evil demonic monsters.
Who are they trying to kid, as if they need an excuse to kill and behead innocent women, men and children!
There is no place in this world for this sick cult.

[…]

Blue Collar Todd said…
Of course Charles Johnson at LGF is blaming Terry Jones.

www.bluecollarphilosophy.com…

Idiot.

[…]

Rob said…
I am so bloody sick of watching these cave people murder, desecrate and destroy. They only have one reaction and that is to kill if we anger them. Well I say enough is enough!
The west needs to reply in kind to these barbaric little savages.
When these crazed muslims attack a compound and kill people the response should be twice as destructive with a larger body count.
Christians/Jews and western people are being targeted and killed all over the world by these thugs and it needs to be stopped at any cost!!!
A crusade needs to be organized and launched before it is to late.
Some of you may think I am being to extreme or maybe suggesting the un-suggestible, but what are our options? I will not be a slave to islam and I will not stand idly by while others are.

God bless us all.

[…]

Bohemond1096 said…
Why waste time burning korans when we should be nukeing Mekka during the hajj?
Cut off the head of the snake and the body dies..

It goes on and on and on like this.

Jump to bottom

632 comments
1 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:06:26pm

How many of these people consider themselves Christians?

2 laZardo  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:08:14pm

re: #1 ggt

They're probably more representative of their faith than most, that's for sure.

3 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:08:29pm

full moon...
(every night)

4 Kragar  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:08:58pm

And next, they change Muslims to Liberal, Union Workers, Blacks or anyone else they disagree with.

5 reine.de.tout  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:09:11pm

re: #2 laZardo

They're probably more representative of their faith than most, that's for sure.

Um, not really.

6 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:10:46pm

re: #2 laZardo

They're probably more representative of their faith than most, that's for sure.

really?, for sure?
amazing how insightful people can be

7 Bob Dillon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:11:25pm

Ignorance gives rise to fear. Couple that with our dysfunctional nature ...

8 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:11:28pm

Note that 'Grimcargo' used to post here. He left during the Great Flouncing, and immediately went Stalker. Since then, he's let his Bigot Flag fly, and its an ugly sight to see.

[waves to the Stalkers]

9 Kragar  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:11:35pm

re: #5 reine.de.tout

Um, not really.

What they call their faith and what they practice as their faith may not necessarily coincide.

10 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:12:13pm

re: #2 laZardo

They're probably more representative of their faith than most, that's for sure.

groovy!....you just lowered yourself to their level

11 laZardo  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:13:51pm

re: #5 reine.de.tout

re: #6 albusteve


Act 19:19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all [men]: and they counted the price of them, and found [it] fifty thousand [pieces] of silver.
Act 19:20 So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.

I'm not lowering myself to their level, both groups (rioters and Terry-Jones Christians) are just on a race to the bottom in their holy war.

12 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:15:00pm

re: #2 laZardo

They're probably more representative of their faith than most, that's for sure.

No, those who truly follow Jesus don't commit violence except in self-defense against eminent danger. Even then, many choose not to.

This is Whackos deciding to reinterpret Old Testament scripture to their own purpose.

13 reine.de.tout  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:15:07pm

re: #9 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What they call their faith and what they practice as their faith may not necessarily coincide.

They represent themselves.

I worked with a married man well known for his many affairs with the women in his office.

And he was active in his church, a lector, communion server, etc.
pfft.

The face he presented to people in church was MUCH different than his real face. Height of hypocrisy. You see those folks hiding behind those nics? That's their real face, and their family is aware of it, for sure. But you can bet what they present to the world at large is much different - I'm just very glad I don't have anyone like those people in my life, I keep a big distance.

14 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:16:11pm

re: #11 laZardo

re: #6 albusteve

I'm not lowering myself to their level, both groups (rioters and Terry-Jones Christians) are just on a race to the bottom in their holy war.

so conversely, the Muslim head choppers represent their entire faith....more so?
and don't bother punching your Bible for me

15 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:16:25pm

Bikini Brawl At Burger King Caught On Tape

i love it!

makes me nostalgic for 1958...

16 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:17:39pm

re: #15 engineer dog

Bikini Brawl At Burger King Caught On Tape

i love it!

makes me nostalgic for 1958...

"Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman, sexy from far away, crazy up close"

17 ozbloke  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:17:44pm

re: #11 laZardo

re: #6 albusteve

I'm not lowering myself to their level, both groups (rioters and Terry-Jones Christians) are just on a race to the bottom in their holy war.

Act 19:19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all [men]: and they counted the price of them, and found [it] fifty thousand [pieces] of silver.
Act 19:20 So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.

You should go and read that it context, I don't think it means what you think it means.

Thats how people 'use' text to support their view.

18 laZardo  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:18:04pm

re: #14 albusteve

Religion is religion is religion. The more secular groups are slowly shedding theirs, and in the wider scheme of things that would be more beneficial for society. Of course those that are more religious won't let that go without a fight.

19 Bob Dillon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:18:52pm

re: #15 engineer dog

Bikini Brawl At Burger King Caught On Tape

i love it!

makes me nostalgic for 1958...

And here we go again ...

20 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:19:22pm

re: #18 laZardo

Religion is religion is religion. The more secular groups are slowly shedding theirs, and in the wider scheme of things that would be more beneficial for society. Of course those that are more religious won't let that go without a fight.

you didn't answer the question

21 reine.de.tout  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:19:39pm

re: #14 albusteve

so conversely, the Muslim head choppers represent their entire faith...more so?
and don't bother punching your Bible for me

Oh, no.
Only Christians get the broad-brush treatment.
re: #18 laZardo

Religion is religion is religion. The more secular groups are slowly shedding theirs, and in the wider scheme of things that would be more beneficial for society. Of course those that are more religious won't let that go without a fight.

Now you're telling me I'm less religious than those idiots you've painted with a broad brush, because I disagree with them?
You're nuts.

22 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:20:19pm

when is the world going to wake up to the fact that islam is not compatable with civilized society

i've never seen this level of racism ginned up before in my lifetime. where will it all end?

23 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:20:22pm

Hey MrPaulRevere, don't get mad at me. I'm not the one who said the bigoted thing, Grimcargo did that and its not the first time.

24 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:20:23pm

re: #21 reine.de.tout

Oh, no.
Only Christians get the broad-brush treatment.
re: #18 laZardo

Now you're telling me I'm less religious than those idiots you've painted with a broad brush, because I disagree with them?
You're nuts.

agreed

25 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:20:26pm

re: #2 laZardo

They're probably more representative of their faith than most, that's for sure.

I like to consider that my friends and family are better examples of Christianity than any of the nuts posting to Pam's site.

26 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:20:43pm

re: #8 Dark_Falcon

Note that 'Grimcargo' used to post here. He left during the Great Flouncing, and immediately went Stalker. Since then, he's let his Bigot Flag fly, and its an ugly sight to see.

[waves to the Stalkers]

I thought I remembered that name.

27 laZardo  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:21:22pm

re: #20 albusteve

The fundamentalists represent their belief better, not so much the wide spectrum of believers.

28 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:21:24pm

I honestly think the only think keeping America from turning into a modern day "Christian Sharia" is the Constitution. The irony is that quite a few of the people who spit venom against Muslims are the same very people who would happily do it themselves to everyone else, if they thought they could get away with it.

(Hey everyone. Sorry i haven't been on in a while, lost my job, been job hunting and taking a sorta vacation from the rest of the world, did ya miss me? :)

29 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:22:31pm

re: #18 laZardo

I disagree, but I do so for religious reasons.

30 jaunte  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:22:32pm
A crusade needs to be organized and launched before it is to late.

Lots of people believe in absolute freedom of speech, and are happy to sacrifice someone else's relatives to maintain it.

31 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:22:34pm

re: #27 laZardo

The fundamentalists represent their belief better, not so much the wide spectrum of believers.

and you know this how?....whatever that means

32 reine.de.tout  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:22:43pm

re: #27 laZardo

The fundamentalists represent their belief better, not so much the wide spectrum of believers.

Incorrect.
I think I represent and live my beliefs just as well as they do.
And I'm no fundamentalist.

33 ozbloke  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:22:58pm

re: #28 bloodstar

I honestly think the only think keeping America from turning into a modern day "Christian Sharia" is the Constitution. The irony is that quite a few of the people who spit venom against Muslims are the same very people who would happily do it themselves to everyone else, if they thought they could get away with it.

(Hey everyone. Sorry i haven't been on in a while, lost my job, been job hunting and taking a sorta vacation from the rest of the world, did ya miss me? :)

I didn't know you to miss you so, NO.
Welcome back.
Did you get a job?

34 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:23:15pm

re: #27 laZardo

Wrongheaded and hostile. Downding.

35 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:24:20pm

re: #28 bloodstar

I honestly think the only think keeping America from turning into a modern day "Christian Sharia" is the Constitution. The irony is that quite a few of the people who spit venom against Muslims are the same very people who would happily do it themselves to everyone else, if they thought they could get away with it.

(Hey everyone. Sorry i haven't been on in a while, lost my job, been job hunting and taking a sorta vacation from the rest of the world, did ya miss me? :)

There is a small fringe group of Whackos™ who want a Christian theocracy in this country. The majority don't have a clue and just want life to go on as it is--no change that would affect them. Unfortunately, the both fall under one voting block.

I hope the majority realize soon what they are aligning themselves with.

36 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:24:29pm

re: #30 jaunte

Lots of people believe in absolute freedom of speech, and are happy to sacrifice someone else's relatives to maintain it.

I believe in near-absolute freedom of speech. I just feel no need to approve of most of what people do with that freedom.

37 [deleted]  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:24:32pm
38 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:24:48pm

re: #13 reine.de.tout

They represent themselves.

I worked with a married man well known for his many affairs with the women in his office.

And he was active in his church, a lector, communion server, etc.
pfft.

The face he presented to people in church was MUCH different than his real face. Height of hypocrisy. You see those folks hiding behind those nics? That's their real face, and their family is aware of it, for sure. But you can bet what they present to the world at large is much different - I'm just very glad I don't have anyone like those people in my life, I keep a big distance.


There are, unfortunately, LOTS of folks like this.
All you can do, is recognize them for what they are, and avoid them.

39 Targetpractice  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:24:53pm

re: #28 bloodstar

I honestly think the only think keeping America from turning into a modern day "Christian Sharia" is the Constitution. The irony is that quite a few of the people who spit venom against Muslims are the same very people who would happily do it themselves to everyone else, if they thought they could get away with it.

(Hey everyone. Sorry i haven't been on in a while, lost my job, been job hunting and taking a sorta vacation from the rest of the world, did ya miss me? :)

If history has taught us anything, it's that such protections can be broken, it's just a matter of finding the right wedge to do the job. In recent years, the wedge tried has been that the word "Creator" and random quotes from our Founding Fathers "prove" that America was intended to be a "Christian nation."

Personally, I await the day we have a president who can stand up and say that he does not believe in one religion or another. Maybe, if I wish really hard, I'll see it within my own lifetime.

40 laZardo  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:24:53pm

Ah hell. I'm gonna get lunch. BBL.

41 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:25:14pm

re: #27 laZardo

The fundamentalists represent their belief better, not so much the wide spectrum of believers.

Bullshit! I suppose you also believe the anti-Semitic moonbats at HuffPo represent the beliefs of Liberals better as well?

42 reine.de.tout  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:25:49pm

re: #38 Floral Giraffe

There are, unfortunately, LOTS of folks like this.
All you can do, is recognize them for what they are, and avoid them.

Which is what I do.
Often, after I've given them a piece of my mind.
Politely, of course.
:-)

43 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:26:49pm

re: #39 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

If history has taught us anything, it's that such protections can be broken, it's just a matter of finding the right wedge to do the job. In recent years, the wedge tried has been that the word "Creator" and random quotes from our Founding Fathers "prove" that America was intended to be a "Christian nation."

Personally, I await the day we have a president who can stand up and say that he does not believe in one religion or another. Maybe, if I wish really hard, I'll see it within my own lifetime.

He/she'd have to say they were "humanist" or some descriptor other than "athiest". He/she would also have to be supportive of faith and religion when practiced in moderation.

It would be nice, I agree.

44 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:27:41pm

re: #42 reine.de.tout

Which is what I do.
Often, after I've given them a piece of my mind.
Politely, of course.
:-)

Those people tend to stay away from me. I don't support them in their lies.

45 reine.de.tout  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:28:59pm

re: #44 ggt

Those people tend to stay away from me. I don't support them in their lies.

Well, yes, it's probably a mutual disengagement.

46 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:29:06pm

re: #38 Floral Giraffe

There are, unfortunately, LOTS of folks like this.
All you can do, is recognize them for what they are, and avoid them.

The facial hair helps.

47 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:29:17pm

re: #18 laZardo

Everyone is entitled to their beliefs in the Generosity of the Western Society.
Not so much, elsewhere.

48 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:31:24pm

Nasty comments...

#2 April 2, 2011 at 8:32 am
Mark1957 commented:

There is no such thing as a moderate muslim, only those who commit atrocities like this and those that keep their mouths shut when atrocities happen. The only good muslim is a dead one.

[snip]

... but just like all Muslims are not radical Islamists, neither are all conservatives inclined to think like this. Proof of that point would be the conservatives on LGF, who rarely go to these kind of extremes.

Maybe I'm stating the obvious.

49 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:31:38pm

re: #46 goddamnedfrank

The facial hair helps.

LOL!
Please don't tell me you do the "Snidely Whiplash"?

50 reine.de.tout  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:33:12pm

re: #48 Walter L. Newton

Nasty comments...

... but just like all Muslims are not radical Islamists, neither are all conservatives inclined to think like this. Proof of that point would be the conservatives on LGF, who rarely go to these kind of extremes.

Maybe I'm stating the obvious.

The conservatives here at LGF aren't really conservative, doncha know? You must have missed the memo . . .

51 Kragar  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:34:00pm

Goldstone: I was wrong on Israel’s intentions

Israel did not intentionally target civilians as a policy during the Gaza War, Richard Goldstone said, withdrawing a critical allegation in his report.

"We know a lot more today about what happened in the Gaza war of 2008-09 than we did when I chaired the fact-finding mission appointed by the U.N. Human Rights Council that produced what has come to be known as the Goldstone Report," the South African judge wrote in an op-ed Saturday for the Washington Post. "If I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document."

Goldstone withdrew what was, perhaps, his most damaging conclusion: That there was evidence suggesting Israel had deliberately targeted civilians during its war with Hamas.

52 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:34:04pm

re: #50 reine.de.tout

The conservatives here at LGF aren't really conservative, doncha know? You must have missed the memo . . .

Aren't all conservatives wingnuts?

53 Bob Dillon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:34:23pm

re: #37 MikeySDCA

As a Hare Krsna Hindu, I am tempted to say a plague on both parties, but Hindus have not been without fault. Ayodhya mosque dispute.

Everyone is guilty and no one is to blame.

54 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:35:02pm

re: #38 Floral Giraffe

There are, unfortunately, LOTS of folks like this.
All you can do, is recognize them for what they are, and avoid them.

the big question for me is always the same....how many are there and what is their strength....becoming more openly vocal doesn't really answer the question....and can they make it happen to a large degree?....I don't feel good about it and consider it the beginning of the Fall

55 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:35:04pm

re: #52 NJDhockeyfan

Aren't all conservatives wingnuts?

Then all Liberals are moonbats . . .

56 Varek Raith  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:35:13pm

re: #53 Bobibutu

Everyone is guilty and no one is to blame.

I ain't guilty of nothing.
;)

57 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:35:18pm

re: #50 reine.de.tout

The conservatives here at LGF aren't really conservative, doncha know? You must have missed the memo . . .

Bullshit... I'm a conservative... and proud of it. But I'm not beholden to one single point of view, to some dogmatic religious slant or unwilling to consider information that may change my mind.

58 reine.de.tout  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:35:24pm

re: #52 NJDhockeyfan

Aren't all conservatives wingnuts?

Well, now, there's the RINO's.

59 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:36:09pm

re: #53 Bobibutu

Everyone is guilty and no one is to blame.

Bullshit... I'm not guilty for any of this... so... are you?

60 reine.de.tout  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:36:17pm

re: #57 Walter L. Newton

Bullshit... I'm a conservative... and proud of it. But I'm not beholden to one single point of view, to some dogmatic religious slant or unwilling to consider information that may change my mind.

Chill.
That came from somewhere else.

61 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:36:19pm

Actually, I think most of us here, regardless of how we label ourselves, really fall under Classical Liberalism. Which these days is conservatism, I think :)

62 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:36:29pm

re: #52 NJDhockeyfan

Aren't all conservatives wingnuts?

yes, ask anybody

63 Kragar  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:37:01pm

re: #56 Varek Raith

I ain't guilty of nothing.
;)

I'm guilty of quite a bit, but this Papal Indulgence says its all good.

64 Targetpractice  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:37:18pm

re: #61 ggt

Actually, I think most of us here, regardless of how we label ourselves, really fall under Classical Liberalism. Which these days is conservatism, I think :)

How dare you call me a liberal? Them's fightin' words!

//

65 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:37:31pm

re: #50 reine.de.tout

The conservatives here at LGF aren't really conservative, doncha know? You must have missed the memo . . .

Um, Memo?...

66 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:37:33pm

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Goldstone: I was wrong on Israel’s intentions

He's still blaming Israel...

"Goldstone said he might have drawn different conclusions had Israel cooperated with his inquiry; Israel refused to do so, seeing the U.N. Human Rights Council as irredeemably biased."

67 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:37:49pm

re: #57 Walter L. Newton

Bullshit... I'm a conservative... and proud of it. But I'm not beholden to one single point of view, to some dogmatic religious slant or unwilling to consider information that may change my mind.

oddball

68 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:38:08pm

re: #56 Varek Raith

I ain't guilty of nothing.
;)

You are guilty, and we are looking for the evidence...
///

69 reine.de.tout  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:38:11pm

re: #65 Floral Giraffe

Um, Memo?...

Oh, you didn't get it either?

70 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:38:30pm

re: #49 Floral Giraffe

LOL!
Please don't tell me you do the "Snidely Whiplash"?

It all class over here lady, I'm all about the Star-Burns.

71 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:38:32pm

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Goldstone: I was wrong on Israel’s intentions

Glad to hear that. Next question: Will European newspapers print the retraction story or will they ignore it?

72 reine.de.tout  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:38:37pm

re: #69 reine.de.tout

Oh, you didn't get it either?

I need to step up my game . . .

73 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:38:50pm

re: #65 Floral Giraffe

Um, Memo?...

It comes monthly with the Zionist Paycheck. . . .

:0

74 Targetpractice  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:39:10pm

re: #68 Floral Giraffe

You are guilty, and we are looking for the evidence...
///

Evidence? In glorious People's Republic of Lizardstan, we need not evidence. Just break a few fingers until he signs the "confession," then ship him to the gulag. Or to the firing squad, makes no difference.

///

75 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:39:16pm

re: #71 Dark_Falcon

Glad to hear that. Next question: Will European newspapers print the retraction story or will they ignore it?

Glad to hear that... here's how he spins the whole thing, still blaming Israel... read the WHOLE article...

"Goldstone said he might have drawn different conclusions had Israel cooperated with his inquiry; Israel refused to do so, seeing the U.N. Human Rights Council as irredeemably biased."

76 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:39:18pm

re: #69 reine.de.tout

Oh, you didn't get it either?

I never got any stinking Memo!
LOL!
(at least I didn't read it!)

77 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:39:19pm

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Goldstone: I was wrong on Israel’s intentions

That is just blowing my mind. WTF?

78 Bob Dillon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:39:28pm

re: #55 ggt

Then all Liberals are moonbats . . .

And all texans are rednecks .. ad infinitum.

79 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:39:49pm

re: #70 goddamnedfrank

It all class over here lady, I'm all about the Star-Burns.

That looks like a cross between a spider and a face-hugger from Alien.

eww!

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:40:15pm

re: #73 ggt

It comes monthly with the Zionist Paycheck. . . .

:0

I think last month it was pink.

81 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:40:20pm

re: #73 ggt

It comes monthly with the Zionist Paycheck. . . .

:0

Paycheck is direct deposited, I skip the Memo stuff!
LOL!

82 Bob Dillon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:40:35pm

re: #56 Varek Raith

I ain't guilty of nothing.
;)

Riiiiight! ;-)

83 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:40:57pm

re: #70 goddamnedfrank

It all class over here lady, I'm all about the Star-Burns.

Too funny!

84 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:40:58pm

re: #78 Bobibutu

And all texans are rednecks .. ad infinitum.

All dogs have four legs.
A table has four legs; therefore,
a dog is a table.

Unsound Logic.

85 jaunte  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:41:02pm

re: #70 goddamnedfrank

It all class over here lady, I'm all about the Star-Burns.

Now there's a man who's given up on dating.

86 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:41:31pm

re: #81 Floral Giraffe

Paycheck is direct deposited, I skip the Memo stuff!
LOL!

You don't get it attached to your Advise of Deposit?

87 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:41:43pm

re: #85 jaunte

Now there's a man who's given up on dating.

OK, true LOL on that comment!

88 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:42:44pm

re: #52 NJDhockeyfan

Aren't all conservatives wingnuts?

Nah. Wingnuts are wingnuts. They've just hikacked the word 'conservative' for their use. Like the wingnuts in Afghanistan have hijacked Islam and the IRA hijacked Catholicism.

It's like the difference between a water mocassin and a copperhead. The important thing is they're venomous snakes.

89 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:42:55pm

re: #85 jaunte

Now there's a man who's given up on dating.

lol, yep!

90 Varek Raith  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:43:46pm

re: #70 goddamnedfrank

It all class over here lady, I'm all about the Star-Burns.

That's way too much work.

91 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:43:58pm

re: #75 Walter L. Newton

Glad to hear that... here's how he spins the whole thing, still blaming Israel... read the WHOLE article...

"Goldstone said he might have drawn different conclusions had Israel cooperated with his inquiry; Israel refused to do so, seeing the U.N. Human Rights Council as irredeemably biased."

Sorry. I hadn't read it when i posted that.

92 Bob Dillon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:45:17pm

re: #59 Walter L. Newton

Bullshit... I'm not guilty for any of this... so... are you?

Walter ... the context was not "this" ... we are all guilty of our negative emotional responses to others. We are not to blame - its just our specific dysfunctional criteria and belief systems that have been ingrained into us as we grew up - and the onslaught of disinformation we are constantly bombarded with.

93 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:46:40pm

bbiab

94 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:47:49pm

re: #84 ggt

All dogs have four legs.
A table has four legs; therefore,
a dog is a table.

Unsound Logic.

this is exactly the form of syllogism that jonah goldberg used to prove that liberals are the same as nazis

95 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:48:24pm

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Goldstone: I was wrong on Israel’s intentions

The cesspool of haters is not happy with that admission...

Chazmania 3 minutes ago (11:56 PM)
956 Fans
The world is infested with the neoconzion­ist disease...­time will tell if its terminal for mankind.


HUFFPOST SUPER USER
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984 Fans
I see the PR machine is now working overtime to make this the central pillar of all criticism against Israel, as if everyone became outraged by mistake and now Goldstone has made it all better. NOT!

96 Bob Dillon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:49:04pm

re: #84 ggt

All dogs have four legs.
A table has four legs; therefore,
a dog is a table.

Unsound Logic.

I'm glad you caught that. ;-)

97 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:49:21pm

re: #95 NJDhockeyfan

The cesspool of haters is not happy with that admission...

Those comment were posted their by conservative operatives... don't you know that?

98 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:50:22pm

re: #94 engineer dog

this is exactly the form of syllogism that jonah goldberg used to prove that liberals are the same as nazis

His argument was actually a good bit more complex than that and relied on the collectivist arguments made by both such factions. It was wrong, but not stupid.

99 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:51:11pm

re: #97 Walter L. Newton

Those comment were posted their by conservative operatives... don't you know that?

THERE... dammit.

100 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:51:18pm

re: #97 Walter L. Newton

Those comment were posted their by conservative operatives... don't you know that?

Nonsense. The spelling and grammar is too good.

101 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:52:07pm

re: #97 Walter L. Newton

Those comment were posted their by conservative operatives... don't you know that?

They were infiltrated by Fox News spies!

102 reine.de.tout  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:52:22pm

re: #100 SanFranciscoZionist

Nonsense. The spelling and grammar is too good.

Hey, now. Watchit.

103 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:52:25pm

re: #95 NJDhockeyfan

The cesspool of haters is not happy with that admission...

When it comes to Israel, the HuffPo remains hateful.

104 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:52:33pm

re: #99 Walter L. Newton

There, They're, Their, Damnit Walter!

105 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:53:00pm

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

His argument was actually a good bit more complex than that and relied on the collectivist arguments made by both such factions. It was wrong, but not stupid.

then he blabs on about his brilliant reasoning for 300 pages and makes a million bucks...hahaha!

106 reine.de.tout  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:53:05pm

re: #100 SanFranciscoZionist

Nonsense. The spelling and grammar is too good.

And would that be "spelling and grammar are . . ."?

107 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:53:50pm

re: #104 Floral Giraffe

There, They're, Their, Damnit Walter!

I'm going to be nice to you tonight. Thanks for the input.

108 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:53:52pm

re: #106 reine.de.tout

And would that be "spelling and grammar are . . ."?

Picky, picky, picky!

109 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:54:36pm

re: #107 Walter L. Newton

I'm going to be nice to you tonight. Thanks for the input.

Thanks for the sweetness!

110 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:54:40pm

re: #103 Dark_Falcon

When it comes to Israel, the HuffPo remains hateful.

Yet they have much love for the terrorists that want to destroy Israel & kill it's people. It's a very disgusting blog.

111 reine.de.tout  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:54:46pm

re: #108 Floral Giraffe

Picky, picky, picky!

*snicker*

112 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:55:15pm

re: #111 reine.de.tout

*snicker*

Hee Hee!

113 reine.de.tout  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:56:08pm

OK, phone is finally charged!
Y'all are great, and I love you and all, but I need some sleep.
Have a great evening.

114 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:56:40pm

re: #113 reine.de.tout

re: #113 reine.de.tout

Sleep well!

115 Bob Dillon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:57:38pm

re: #113 reine.de.tout

Sweetest of dreams ....... zzzzzzzzz

116 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:57:48pm

re: #109 Floral Giraffe

Thanks for the sweetness!

I really thought they'd turned the corner, but they're still a swamp.

117 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:58:10pm

re: #113 reine.de.tout

OK, phone is finally charged!
Y'all are great, and I love you and all, but I need some sleep.
Have a great evening.

Night... I have an overnight at the store in a few minutes... may be back in AM.

118 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:58:47pm

re: #116 Dark_Falcon

I really thought they'd turned the corner, but they're still a swamp.

She was talking about me... I'm still a swamp?

119 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:59:40pm

re: #118 Walter L. Newton

She was talking about me... I'm still a swamp?

Wasn't there a poster once that had "swamp" in the nic?

120 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:59:48pm

re: #118 Walter L. Newton

She was talking about me... I'm still a swamp?

You're a swamp? I thought you were a dick.

121 KingKenrod  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 9:59:54pm

Ace of Spades was considering nuking population centers in retaliation after re-considering that the Bush way of fighting a humane war in Afghanistan might not be working out.

122 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:00:48pm

re: #120 NJDhockeyfan

You're a swamp? I thought you were a dick.

LOL

no offence to Walter, I just thought it was a humorous response.

123 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:01:24pm

re: #122 ggt

LOL

no offence to Walter, I just thought it was a humorous response.

I didn't take any... look out your window :)

124 Kragar  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:01:53pm

re: #123 Walter L. Newton

I didn't take any... look out your window :)

THERE IS SOMETHING ON THE WING!

125 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:03:49pm

re: #124 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

THERE IS SOMETHING ON THE WING!

And, it's not birdie doo!

126 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:05:21pm

re: #119 ggt

Wasn't there a poster once that had "swamp" in the nic?

Yeah, Swamprat.

127 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:05:34pm

re: #118 Walter L. Newton

She was talking about me... I'm still a swamp?

No, Walter. HuffPo is a swamp. You're something much better and healthier.

128 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:06:53pm

re: #126 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, Swamprat.

Another person who flouned to the Stalker Blog. Sad, very sad.

129 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:07:02pm

re: #126 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, Swamprat.

What's a "prat?"

130 Kragar  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:07:06pm

Movie Trivia: The director of the "Nightmare at 20,000 Feet" segment of the Twilight Zone movie was the director of the Mad Max films, who was a doctor prior to entering the film business.

131 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:07:27pm

re: #126 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, Swamprat.

Once upon a time, in a land far far away...
Banned, apparently.
No posts come up for that nic.

132 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:07:37pm

re: #128 Dark_Falcon

Another person who flouned to the Stalker Blog. Sad, very sad.

From what I gather, from your own admissions, you're over there all the time?

133 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:08:17pm

re: #132 Walter L. Newton

And it's meaningful to you, why?

134 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:08:31pm

And to "john difool" on his spouting of the latest disgusting Stalker Hate MemeL

Piss Off!

135 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:08:32pm

re: #132 Walter L. Newton

From what I gather, from your own admissions, you're over there all the time?

I went over there once, that was enough.

136 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:09:33pm

re: #132 Walter L. Newton

From what I gather, from your own admissions, you're over there all the time?

Not nearly as much lately. But since Charles did post one of their quotes in this thread, I am keeping an eye on them right now.

137 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:10:30pm

re: #135 NJDhockeyfan

I went over there once, that was enough.

I check periodically, to see if anyone has challenged me to a fight, or is threatening to tell the world my secret identity in exchange for Ludwig's secret identity.

138 Kragar  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:10:46pm

re: #135 NJDhockeyfan

I went over there once, that was enough.

Same here.

There are plenty of moronic idiots hyperventilating about meaningless bullshit that only exists in their own heads everyday with out needing me to check up on them.

139 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:11:05pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

LOL!
I'll NEVER tell!

140 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:12:43pm

Out for the night... groceries to stock, customers to check out, snow tomorrow night... fun in the Rockies.

141 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:13:19pm

I freaking hate that I now have to wear glasses to read ANYTHING, not just micro-print.

142 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:13:27pm

re: #138 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Same here.

There are plenty of moronic idiots hyperventilating about meaningless bullshit that only exists in their own heads everyday with out needing me to check up on them.

If I went over there all the time I would feel like a stalker, just like they are. Since I don't read their blog I feel like they don't exist.

143 What, me worry?  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:16:01pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

I check periodically, to see if anyone has challenged me to a fight, or is threatening to tell the world my secret identity in exchange for Ludwig's secret identity.

Wonder Woman and Earth Sentry?

Infused with Kree alien powers, Earth Sentry watches guard over the Earth

144 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:16:40pm

re: #127 Dark_Falcon

No, Walter. HuffPo is a swamp. You're something much better and healthier.

Looks like they are having a spat with the NYT:

NYT vs HuffPo, cont.

The NYT’s declared war on the Huffington Post shows no sign of dissipating, and as ever the new-look NYT Magazine is at the front lines of the attack. Andrew Goldman’s interview with Arianna Huffington is quite astonishing...

[snip]

145 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:17:27pm

re: #144 NJDhockeyfan

Looks like they are having a spat with the NYT:

NYT vs HuffPo, cont.

HuffPo is taking on the Gray Lady?

Oh, this won't take long.

146 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:18:30pm

re: #144 NJDhockeyfan

Looks like they are having a spat with the NYT:

NYT vs HuffPo, cont.

part of the larger media freak show, called news and commentary
fuck them all

147 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:18:42pm

re: #145 SanFranciscoZionist

HuffPo is taking on the Gray Lady?

Oh, this won't take long.

Should we cook up some popcorn?

148 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:18:57pm

bbiab again.

149 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:19:24pm

re: #147 NJDhockeyfan

Should we cook up some popcorn?

no, but kill the winner please

150 What, me worry?  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:19:33pm

Now I'm wondering if Charles has any Earth Sentry comic books.

151 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:20:35pm

re: #141 ggt

Have you looked at Lasik surgery?
I just hear the ads...

152 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:21:18pm

re: #147 NJDhockeyfan

Should we cook up some popcorn?

Watching two organizations you don't like rip each other apart while you sit back and watch it on the net: That's Entertainment!

153 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:21:52pm

re: #142 NJDhockeyfan

They exsist, they're just all twisted up in their panties about Charles.
*waves to the stalkerz*

154 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:22:52pm

re: #151 Floral Giraffe

Have you looked at Lasik surgery?
I just hear the ads...

Miracle of modern medicie. I have 20-15 vision because of my Lasik surgery. I happily threw away my contacts.

155 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:24:25pm

re: #153 Floral Giraffe

They exsist, they're just all twisted up in their panties about Charles.
*waves to the stalkerz*

I have no interest in who they like or dislike. I read LGF, not the stalker blog/s.

156 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:24:58pm

re: #154 NJDhockeyfan

Miracle of modern medicie. I have 20-15 vision because of my Lasik surgery. I happily threw away my contacts.

any hope for an astigmatism yet?....got one in my right eye, the only reason I wear glasses

157 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:27:20pm

re: #156 albusteve

any hope for an astigmatism yet?...got one in my right eye, the only reason I wear glasses

Maybe. It's come a long way in just a few short years. Ask your eye doctor. It's the best money I ever spent on medical needs (other than having kids).

158 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:28:36pm

Sleep tight, Lizardia.
Lurkers too.
*smooch*

159 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:29:28pm

re: #157 NJDhockeyfan

Maybe. It's come a long way in just a few short years. Ask your eye doctor. It's the best money I ever spent on medical needs (other than having kids).

just found out....refractive corneal surgery can now reshape the cornea to remove one

[Link: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...]

160 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:29:44pm

re: #158 Floral Giraffe

Sleep tight, Lizardia.
Lurkers too.
*smooch*

Thanks for the good times tonight, Floral!

161 What, me worry?  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:30:00pm

re: #156 albusteve

any hope for an astigmatism yet?...got one in my right eye, the only reason I wear glasses

Possibly.

[Link: www.usaeyes.org...]

162 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:31:18pm

re: #161 marjoriemoon

Possibly.

[Link: www.usaeyes.org...]

yeah, I'm gonna check with my insurance

163 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:31:48pm

Great news coming out of Pakistan...

Swat valley: Over 380,000 children to be vaccinated against polio

Over 380,000 children in Swat district will be vaccinated against polio in a campaign that begins on April 4.

The health department has divided the district into 63 zones and 906 teams have been formed to inoculate 380,364 children under the age of five.

According to Dr Muneeb, coordinator for the Expanded Programme on Immunisation (EPI), Swat is one of the high-risk areas in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa.

I hope they get it all done without getting attacked by the Islamic terrorist rats who roam around the country.

164 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:33:46pm

re: #162 albusteve

yeah, I'm gonna check with my insurance

My insurance didn't cover it at the time. Both me and my wife got it done and had to pay for it out of pocket. Some insurance companies will cover it now.

165 What, me worry?  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:35:54pm

re: #162 albusteve

yeah, I'm gonna check with my insurance

My hubby was not a candidate, but it worked for a woman at work, so yea, it depends on the astigmatism.

166 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:35:57pm

re: #164 NJDhockeyfan

My insurance didn't cover it at the time. Both me and my wife got it done and had to pay for it out of pocket. Some insurance companies will cover it now.

I've already spent a small fortune on glasses over the years...but out of pocket is not a priority....I need a camper first, to store all my eye glasses

167 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:37:17pm

re: #163 NJDhockeyfan

Great news coming out of Pakistan...

Swat valley: Over 380,000 children to be vaccinated against polio

I hope they get it all done without getting attacked by the Islamic terrorist rats who roam around the country.

They'll likely travel in an army convoy. I think we should 'keep an eye' on that convoy, so they have drone support if they are attacked. Notice should go out: Any one who attacks these doctors will be blown away. No trial, no judge, no jury; Just a Reaper firing a Maverick down your throat.

168 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:39:29pm

I was at the beach down at Perdido Key playing in big ass waves....my wife says "honey, better take off your glasses!" (which I always wear under my shades)...BoooM! no more glasses....found my $10 shades but my $500 cheaters were deep sixed....that was one time

169 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:40:24pm

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

They'll likely travel in an army convoy. I think we should 'keep an eye' on that convoy, so they have drone support if they are attacked. Notice should go out: Any one who attacks these doctors will be blown away. No trial, no judge, no jury; Just a Reaper firing a Maverick down your throat.

I was going to post the very morbid notion that these children are now marked for death

170 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:40:31pm

More comments from the sewer...

HUFFPOST SUPER USER
VKoval 6 minutes ago (1:29 AM)
84 Fans
the israeli's treat the palestiani­ans the way the nazi's treated the jews. that is obvious to anyone who is a student of history.

the fault honestly, is with the palestiani­ans who side with the israelis, the arab countries surroundin­g israel and with the israeli's for not wiping them off the map. i could careless about this and it is unfortunat­e that the israeli lobby has bought my countries congress.


HUFFPOST SUPER USER
PlayTOE 6 minutes ago (1:28 AM)
1218 Fans
We WATCHED Israel commit war crimes LIVE on the internet, and got to see them posted on YouTube.
The original report is correct. They are guilty of targeting civilians, and of using banned weapons.

Paying off (or scaring off) the report writer will not change what happened.


JFK Israel 36 minutes ago (12:59 AM)
13 Fans
israel has been a blood sucking leech on the world since before its existence 60 years ago...

John Lennon's IMAGINE would be possible but for Israel...

israel...s­tewing the world in its juices

What a bunch of swell folks!
//

171 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:40:54pm

re: #154 NJDhockeyfan

Miracle of modern medicie. I have 20-15 vision because of my Lasik surgery. I happily threw away my contacts.

How about halos around lights at night? I know that's a side effect for some people.

172 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:41:09pm

re: #170 NJDhockeyfan

More comments from the sewer...

What a bunch of swell folks!
//

don't go there?....what?

173 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:43:14pm

re: #171 goddamnedfrank

How about halos around lights at night? I know that's a side effect for some people.

sounds like a drag...I wonder if that's the procedure or incidental?...you know off hand?

174 lostlakehiker  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:43:30pm

re: #22 engineer dog

when is the world going to wake up to the fact that islam is not compatable with civilized society

i've never seen this level of racism ginned up before in my lifetime. where will it all end?

Racism? Islam, like Christianity, is a faith that has wide appeal and numbers of adherents from several "races". Muslim extremists consider the only good Christian a dead Christian, and vice versa, but neither is hostile to his own coreligionists from other "races".

175 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:43:39pm

re: #171 goddamnedfrank

How about halos around lights at night? I know that's a side effect for some people.

At first. It lasted about 4 months then my eyes were normal again.

176 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:45:28pm

re: #175 NJDhockeyfan

At first. It lasted about 4 months then my eyes were normal again.

that would be the time to go see Pink Floyd

Youtube Video
177 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:46:23pm

Sir David Gilmour!
yup

178 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:47:21pm

FLOYDISTAS!
ARISE!

179 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:48:41pm

re: #176 albusteve

that would be the time to go see Pink Floyd

[Video]

I saw them twice! Once at Giant's Stadium and once at the Nassau Colosseum which is where they recorded the video 'Delicate Sounds of Thunder'. I will never forget it.

180 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:50:33pm

re: #179 NJDhockeyfan

I saw them twice! Once at Giant's Stadium and once at the Nassau Colosseum which is where they recorded the video 'Delicate Sounds of Thunder'. I will never forget it.

they never stopped for me....I'm into other stuff but I like them....but my stadium days ended long before their bigtime anyway

181 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:50:34pm

re: #174 lostlakehiker

Racism? Islam, like Christianity, is a faith that has wide appeal and numbers of adherents from several "races". Muslim extremists consider the only good Christian a dead Christian, and vice versa, but neither is hostile to his own coreligionists from other "races".

It depends. There are some Fundies and Islamists who go through all sorts of intellectual contortions to "prove" that non-Arabs aren't good Muslims or that black people can't be proper Christians. But that's just an overlay. Neither the New Testament nor the Koran condones racism and both proclaim the equality of all believers.

182 Irenicum  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:52:41pm

Late on the early convo, but Lazardo's comments on fundies being the "real" voice of various religions is patently ridiculous. Every "religion" whether supernatural or naturalistic (see the "new" atheists) has its varied expressions. Every "thought system" has it battles among the fundies and the progressives, whether political or religious. With each passing day I'm more and more convinced that the divide has more to do with personality type than any particular ideology. Though obviously some ideologies serve some types more than others.

183 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:53:09pm

re: #173 albusteve

sounds like a drag...I wonder if that's the procedure or incidental?...you know off hand?

It's a known complication for many, one study indicated that 30% of patients experienced halos in dim light. That indicates beyond incidental. Most patients do improve over time though.

Still, HBP almost robbed me of my vision once and I like the way I look in glasses. LA Eyeworks makes nice powder-coated titanium frames that seem to last forever. I used to burn through frames in a couple of years max before I found them.

184 Bob Dillon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:53:52pm

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

It gets darker if the bad guys follow-up. I think our guys and gals have considered this and will take appropriate action based on past lessons learned.

185 austin_blue  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:57:00pm

And the Fundie whack job who set it in motion gets a pass. If these idiots cannot understand cause and affect, they need to be shunned. It won't happen, of course.

We are now in a situation where there are two large groups, the informed and the willfully ignorant. Unfortunately, the willfully ignorant appear to make up the majority.

If there is a God out there, please rescue us from these fools.

Just a drive-by, and goodnight my dear friends.

186 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:57:26pm

re: #183 goddamnedfrank

It's a known complication for many, one study indicated that 30% of patients experienced halos in dim light. That indicates beyond incidental. Most patients do improve over time though.

Still, HBP almost robbed me of my vision once and I like the way I look in glasses. LA Eyeworks makes nice powder-coated titanium frames that seem to last forever. I used to burn through frames in a couple of years max before I found them.

I've been using Ralph Lauren ultralite frames for years....really expensive but for the right price I'd have the surgery, just the hassle factor

187 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:58:35pm

re: #174 lostlakehiker

Racism? Islam, like Christianity, is a faith that has wide appeal and numbers of adherents from several "races". Muslim extremists consider the only good Christian a dead Christian, and vice versa, but neither is hostile to his own coreligionists from other "races".

if you want to put a fine point on it you could call it 'religious bigotry', but in point of fact to most of these commenters muslims == arabs == a bunch of foreigners who are bad and foreign foreigners, so imho it isn't really different than racism

just like all the agitation about 'illegal aliens' - despite all the vigorous protestations from these people about how they have nothing against legal aliens and some of their best friends are hispanic & etc & etc, i don't buy it for a second and i think it's just an 'acceptable' way of hating on spanish people

188 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 10:59:14pm

re: #127 Dark_Falcon

No, Walter. HuffPo is a swamp. You're something much better and healthier.

Swamps are valuable ecosystems, there isn't anything inherently unhealthy about them.

189 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:00:09pm

re: #186 albusteve

I've been using Ralph Lauren ultralite frames for years...really expensive but for the right price I'd have the surgery, just the hassle factor

I highly recommend it. This is one happy customer. I need reading glasses now but I can read signs down the road while driving. I thought that was much more important when I made my decision.

:)

190 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:01:11pm

re: #189 NJDhockeyfan

I highly recommend it. This is one happy customer. I need reading glasses now but I can read signs down the road while driving. I thought that was much more important when I made my decision.

:)

guys like me don't pay attention to road signs

191 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:01:13pm

re: #188 prononymous

Swamps are valuable ecosystems, there isn't anything inherently unhealthy about them.

I prefer swamps to sewers.

192 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:01:47pm

holy geez,

43 comments since I left!

193 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:02:07pm

re: #151 Floral Giraffe

Have you looked at Lasik surgery?
I just hear the ads...

No way, I'm to eye squeamish.

194 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:02:22pm

re: #188 prononymous

Swamps are valuable ecosystems, there isn't anything inherently unhealthy about them.

and a metephor is a valuable language tool

195 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:03:04pm

re: #193 ggt

No way, I'm to eye squeamish.

It took about 2 minutes per eye then it was over. It didn't hurt a bit.

196 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:03:06pm

re: #170 NJDhockeyfan

More comments from the sewer...

What a bunch of swell folks!
//

Sounds like stuff you'd see on a Hamas TV channel. Ugly hateful stuff that shows the level of Israel hate found among the Huffers.

197 Irenicum  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:03:08pm

re: #185 austin_blue

Austin. I don't see the loon Terry Jones being let off the hook in the news coverage I've seen. His action is constitutionally protected but morally reprehensible. But killing many people totally unrelated to what he did because of what he did is a different issue. Both issues need to be dealt with in their own right.

198 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:03:31pm

damn! missed SWING CAT'S JAMBOREE (1933) on tcm this morning

199 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:04:51pm

for all who are indifferent to Pink Floyd....

Youtube Video

where are you?

200 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:05:25pm

re: #188 prononymous

Swamps are valuable ecosystems, there isn't anything inherently unhealthy about them.

Swamps can be healthy, but they are often not healthy environments for humans, due to disease carrying pests that live there, mostly mosquitoes. It was just a metaphor.

And now I've got to get to bed. Goodnight, all.

201 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:05:31pm

re: #196 Dark_Falcon

Sounds like stuff you'd see on a Hamas TV channel. Ugly hateful stuff that shows the level of Israel hate found among the Huffers.

It's never ending over there. Those are just a few of the posts that didn't get deleted. I can't imagine how bad those are.

202 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:06:53pm

re: #200 Dark_Falcon

Fair enough. I'm just not happy about the cultural perception of swamps as bad places.

Good night.

203 Bob Dillon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:07:02pm

re: #174 lostlakehiker

Racism? Islam, like Christianity, is a faith that has wide appeal and numbers of adherents from several "races". Muslim extremists consider the only good Christian a dead Christian, and vice versa, but neither is hostile to his own coreligionists from other "races".

Unless they disagree or do not physically toe the line dictated by the local mulla. Then the penalty is ostracism (really tough in a remote population demographic) on the mild side to death on the extreme. (I have lived amongst Muslim populations in remote areas)

204 Kragar  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:07:32pm

re: #199 albusteve

for all who are indifferent to Pink Floyd...

[Video]where are you?

/raises hand

205 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:08:06pm

re: #195 NJDhockeyfan

It took about 2 minutes per eye then it was over. It didn't hurt a bit.

My BIL described in detail his surgery.

I made him stop 1/2 way thru. Couldn't eat my dinner.

206 Irenicum  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:08:38pm

re: #199 albusteve

I've been in an Edith Piaf mood tonight myself.

207 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:09:15pm

re: #206 Irenicum

I've been in an Edith Piaf mood tonight myself.

already ate, thanks

208 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:09:25pm

re: #200 Dark_Falcon

Swamps can be healthy, but they are often not healthy environments for humans, due to disease carrying pests that live there, mostly mosquitoes. It was just a metaphor.

And now I've got to get to bed. Goodnight, all.

Just think of the allergies. Last time I went to a swamp, I wore a surgical mask thingy so I would be able to breathe. Molds and Trees and Pollens, OH my!

209 Irenicum  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:10:08pm

re: #207 albusteve

Haha, Not pilaf.

210 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:10:56pm

encore!
Money

Youtube Video
211 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:11:17pm

re: #199 albusteve

for all who are indifferent to Pink Floyd...

[Video]where are you?

Wouldn't you have loved to have been in Berlin when they did this concert?

Roger Waters - The Wall Live in Berlin

Youtube Video
212 Irenicum  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:13:17pm

Some Edith for you perusal.

Youtube Video
213 Bob Dillon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:14:05pm

re: #188 prononymous

Swamps are valuable ecosystems, there isn't anything inherently unhealthy about them.

Try drinking the water.

214 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:14:26pm

re: #211 NJDhockeyfan

Wouldn't you have loved to have been in Berlin when they did this concert?

Roger Waters - The Wall Live in Berlin

[Video]

sounds like a blast....but I'd really rather see the stones one more time

215 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:14:33pm

re: #205 ggt

My BIL described in detail his surgery.

I made him stop 1/2 way thru. Couldn't eat my dinner.

My Dad had a corneal transplant ... tiny little stitches right in his eyeball.

216 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:14:52pm

re: #213 Bobibutu

Try drinking the water.

No thanks. Obviously, humans didn't evolve in swamps.

217 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:15:55pm

re: #214 albusteve

sounds like a blast...but I'd really rather see the stones one more time

I saw them a few years ago in Charlottesville. That was enough. Pink Floyd was much much better IMHO.

218 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:16:25pm

re: #216 prononymous

No thanks. Obviously, humans didn't evolve in swamps.

No, they just peed in them.

219 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:16:38pm

re: #216 prononymous

No thanks. Obviously, humans didn't evolve in swamps.

Actually there's a very plausible theory that we did.

220 Bob Dillon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:16:46pm

re: #216 prononymous

No thanks. Obviously, humans didn't evolve in swamps.

Let us say our systems evolved to a higher requirement over the years.

221 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:17:47pm

Goldstone, the useful idiot

Your honor, Judge Goldstone:

So now you’re showing regret. To your surprise, you discovered that Hamas did not undertake any probe into rocket attacks on Israel. Allow me to reassure you on this front; Hamas happened to undertake a thorough investigation, believe me – a probe aimed at improving its ability to hit civilians.

Hamas also probed your report in depth and is using it effectively. The group’s leaders realized that the report you drafted will tie Israel’s hands and prevent it from utilizing its full force against terrorists.

Justice Goldstone, I have no way to explain your actions. After all, as opposed to anarchists and other suicidal activists on behalf of global evil, you are not some kind of zealous hippie. You are a reasonable man, an experienced judge who saw a thing or two in his life.

Are you comfortable with the realization that people who hand out candy to celebrate the slaughter of children are making use of the propaganda manifest you wrote for them? Besides, Hamas did not bother to hide. It declared and is still openly declaring that it will do everything in its power to harm Jewish civilians. Please read the Hamas charter, it’s all there.

It’s hard to ignore the fact that’s you’re Jewish. You admitted that this adds another dimension to the matter. Indeed, one hell of a dimension. The reason you were chosen as the “perfect” candidate by those who sent you is your descent. That way, nobody would accuse you of being anti-Semitic. In fact, you constituted the kosher stamp for this blood libel.

I therefore ask again: Why did you do it? After all, you’re no idiot. Perhaps a bit of a useful idiot. Just like many global leftist activists who turn a blind eye to reality. You’re simply exploited. You sold your soul to the devil without noticing it.

...

222 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:19:20pm

I think I'll go to bed. Looks like a good movie is starting on TCM. Ill fall asleep watching it.

223 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:19:48pm

re: #217 NJDhockeyfan

I saw them a few years ago in Charlottesville. That was enough. Pink Floyd was much much better IMHO.

the Stones put on some marginal shows, but few....I saw the 72 tour in Detroit and the 75 tour in Chicago...had front row seats comped to me for the Palace in Auburn Hills for the Bridges To Babylon tour but couldn't go at the last minute..I saw both shows in both cities and was blown away all four gigs

224 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:20:52pm

re: #218 NJDhockeyfan

No, they just peed in them.


Or dried them up.

re: #219 goddamnedfrank

Actually there's a very plausible theory that we did.


I never really thought this was a good hypothesis. But even if it is the case, there wouldn't be any requirement it was swamp. It could have been in lakes or along coasts, etc.

re: #220 Bobibutu

Let us say our systems evolved to a higher requirement over the years.


Why would we say that?

225 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:21:15pm

I seem to have misplaced the audio on my laptop. What do I go under to look for it? Control Panel? What's it called?

226 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:22:16pm

re: #225 ggt

Control Panel -> Sound

227 Kragar  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:22:24pm

re: #225 ggt

I seem to have misplaced the audio on my laptop. What do I go under to look for it? Control Panel? What's it called?

What OS?

228 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:23:15pm

re: #226 prononymous

Control Panel -> Sound

not in Windows

229 Bob Dillon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:24:03pm

re: #224 prononymous

Darwin. Drink water that poisons you = terminal. Drink pure H2O = thrive and here we are. Uh - I think we may have lost a few along the way.

230 Irenicum  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:24:21pm

A seriously sexy video from Edith Piaf. How could anyone not fall for her?

Youtube Video
231 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:24:52pm

re: #226 prononymous

Control Panel -> Sound

re: #227 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What OS?

Vista, I found sound, but I didn't say much.

It's gone from my bottom icon panel, the one with the start menu. Maybe I should just wait until I restart the computer. ...

232 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:26:50pm

re: #228 albusteve

What it is called is dependent on which version of windows. But the idea is the same.

re: #231 ggt

re: #227 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Vista, I found sound, but I didn't say much.

It's gone from my bottom icon panel, the one with the start menu. Maybe I should just wait until I restart the computer. ...

If it is gone without you making any changes, then just reboot and it should come back. If not, there should be a check box in the control panel dialog for sound devices where you can enable the tray icon - assuming the device is working properly.

233 Kragar  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:27:08pm

re: #231 ggt

re: #227 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Vista, I found sound, but I didn't say much.

It's gone from my bottom icon panel, the one with the start menu. Maybe I should just wait until I restart the computer. ...

Right click in the icon panel and check properties. Volume controls may have a toggle button for display.

234 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:29:28pm

re: #229 Bobibutu

Darwin. Drink water that poisons you = terminal. Drink pure H2O = thrive and here we are. Uh - I think we may have lost a few along the way.

I think this misses quite a lot of human history. For much of european history, for example, most people drank beer not water. Even children were given dilute beer. The reason is that the drinking water wasn't safe at all, less so than drinking swamp water, because they didn't have proper sanitation.

235 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:30:18pm

re: #233 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Right click in the icon panel and check properties. Volume controls may have a toggle button for display.

tried, I give-up. I'll wait until I restart it and see what's up.

236 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:30:39pm

re: #232 prononymous

What it is called is dependent on which version of windows. But the idea is the same.

re: #231 ggt

If it is gone without you making any changes, then just reboot and it should come back. If not, there should be a check box in the control panel dialog for sound devices where you can enable the tray icon - assuming the device is working properly.

with Win 7 you have to go to devices in hardware....just a note

237 Bob Dillon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:31:53pm

re: #230 Irenicum

I'll see your Edith Piaf and raise you Roselyn
Sanchez. Google is you friend.

238 albusteve  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:32:23pm

re: #236 albusteve

with Win 7 you have to go to devices in hardware...just a note

I take that back...hardware and sound, via control panel

239 Irenicum  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:32:41pm

re: #237 Bobibutu

Don't know her. I'll check her out. Thanks.

240 Bob Dillon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:32:58pm

re: #234 prononymous

I think this misses quite a lot of human history. For much of european history, for example, most people drank beer not water. Even children were given dilute beer. The reason is that the drinking water wasn't safe at all, less so than drinking swamp water, because they didn't have proper sanitation.

my point exactly.

241 Bob Dillon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:36:39pm

re: #239 Irenicum

I think she is 39 now ... still makes my toes spontaneously curl at the sight of her. What a beauty.

242 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:36:47pm

re: #235 ggt

tried, I give-up. I'll wait until I restart it and see what's up.

I just checked on my Vista machine, I was wrong.

Right click on the task bar and go to "properties". Click on the "notification area" tab in the properties dialog box. There should be boxes to enable or disable icons for some things, including sound.

243 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:37:34pm

re: #240 Bobibutu

my point exactly.

Good point then! ;)

244 Irenicum  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:40:45pm

re: #241 Bobibutu

Um. Wow. What was that about music?

245 Bob Dillon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:44:05pm

re: #234 prononymous

Point in case - I was in Sumatra 1974 - way out there. I told my cook I wanted bean sprouts with my meals and told him how to make it so. He did not want to use our precious fresh water - which we humped in - so he used river water.
It almost killed me. 3 or 4 of the toughest days of my life and no medivac possible. Lesson learned.

246 Querent  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:45:55pm

re: #28 bloodstar

Hey bloodstar, welcome back!

247 Bob Dillon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:47:35pm

re: #244 Irenicum

Um. Wow. What was that about music?

Music? I guess I would hear a celestial choir if I ever tangled with that babe.

248 Querent  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:52:24pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

John DiFool... seems to me i've owned that graphic novel by Moebius...

249 Bob Dillon  Sat, Apr 2, 2011 11:55:13pm

OK - midnight approaches on the left coast - g'nite and sweet dreams to all.

250 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:08:13am

re: #236 albusteve

with Win 7 you have to go to devices in hardware...just a note

Win 7 has an item the control panel called "Notification Area Icons". No need to delve into device manager.

251 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:11:08am

night all!

252 freetoken  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 1:45:06am
MP3 Audio
253 freetoken  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 2:49:38am
MP3 Audio
254 Winny Spencer  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 3:08:09am

Bachmann Tops Romney in First Quarter Fundraising

255 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 3:48:13am

re: #254 Winny Spencer

And;

Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, raised $3 million during the first quarter but the majority was raised through his Campaign for Liberty. Since it is a 501 c(4) non-profit, its funds couldn't be transferred to a potential presidential campaign.

256 The Left  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 4:15:57am

re: #255 Obdicut

Since it is a 501 c(4) non-profit, its funds couldn't be transferred to a potential presidential campaign.

Youtube Video
257 rikzilla  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 4:19:19am

I've been thinking about violence. Not about committing it, but about the reasons why it is committed. I am not a particularly violent person, though I occasionally wish I was because it feels like some people just NEED to be slapped.

But rarely do I give the world what it needs.

I'm thinking about this topic because of a current event. I'm not going to mention that current event - partially because I think the reason some actions are committed is to induce another reaction, and partially because I don't want anyone who happens to comment on this to default to prejudice.

So let's say that I believe in a giant omniscient teddy bear in the sky.

My omniscient teddy bear has given me a rulebook, which is called 'Teddy's Rules'.

One of these rules states that you should never destroy a copy of Teddy's Rules.

Another one says that those who are not part of the Teddy Movement are doomed, worthless, and probably shouldn't exist in the first place.

There are ranges of how completely the followers of Teddy's Rules believe in the rules. There are groups that take the rules to mean things symbolically, but not literally. There are other groups that believe, completely, that Teddy is infalliable, and that the words in the rule book are magical.

In fact, you might even say that the rules, wherever they are printed, actually contain bits of the One True Teddy's fur.

This is a sacred relic, if you believe in such things.

And, in this example, I do.

You burn a copy of Teddy's Rules. I, in turn, kill some people.

The world awaits a reaction.

On the one hand, you don't believe in Teddy's Rules, and therefore the rule about the words containing sacred fluff are the equivalent of believing in Santa Claus. In your mind, you had every right to burn Teddy's Rules.

On the other hand, you know that I am not with you in that belief. You know that I believe that burning Teddy's Rules is just the same as you murdering my family.

You can tell me to smarten up a bit. You can tell me that the moment you choose not to burn Teddy's Rules is the moment the teddorists win.

But that doesn't mean anything to me.

You going out of your way to burn the rules gives the book just as much significance as I claim it has.

You have, in fact, by knowing what would happen, forfeited lives in honor of this book that you claim is nothing.

The rule book must be very, very important if it was worth burning in the first place - if it was worth the lives you knew I would take in honor of The Teddy.

I claim that these are my beliefs and yours, rather than random third parties, for a reason.

If you were in the middle of Teddistan, would you burn the rule book?

Would you urge someone else to do so?

The thoughts that would lead you to burn the rule book are sane. If I believe in an omniscient Teddy Bear who lives in the sky, though, then I am not believing sanely. You would not confront a paranoid schizophrenic and tell them that they are right - the government really is watching them. Nor would you confront a paranoid schizophrenic who is in the middle of a break and insist that they are wrong - that they should just buck up and view the world from your sane, enlightened point of view.

Because expecting them to immediately be cured of schizophrenia is insane too.

It sounds like I am slamming all believers. But I'm not. I'm a believer, after a fashion.

It's just that my particular beliefs don't care what you think.

Your beliefs won't send me to hell.

Your beliefs don't make you worthless.

But if I thought that they did - wouldn't you think to tiptoe?

I ask because I really don't know the answer. I wonder if you do. I'm just pondering violence. Definitely, though, not committing it.

258 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 4:32:04am

re: #257 rikzilla

I don't think paranoid schitzophrenia is the best analogy, but other than that, a good thought experiment. I do disagree that the thoughts that would lead you to burn the rule book are 'sane'. I mean, I do think that you can sanely decide to burn the rule book, but I think that the thoughts that lead to that point are best characterized by hatred and bigotry, rather than sanity.

This, however, is a very good point:

You have, in fact, by knowing what would happen, forfeited lives in honor of this book that you claim is nothing.

Though again, a slight tweak; some claim that the book isn't nothing, but that it's actively evil. To those people, a sacrifice in lives might be acceptable for the destruction of the evil thing. Not that that's so sane, either.

259 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 4:35:31am

re: #257 rikzilla

Die! Heretic!

Great Post.

260 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 4:36:41am

re: #259 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yeah, in case I wasn't clear in mine: a really great post. Just following some of the trains of thought a little. A well-worked-out thought experiment.

Kudos to rikzilla.

261 freetoken  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 4:36:55am

re: #258 Obdicut

Historically, Islam is closely related to Christianity, being essentially an admixture of tribal customs on the Arabian peninsula with fragments of Christianity (and Judaism, both via Christianity and directly.)

So it is not surprising that the worldviews of people like Terry Jones and the Afghani imams are similar (even if they don't like to admit it.)

262 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 4:38:07am

re: #261 freetoken

I ain't descended from no Arab...
/

263 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 4:40:46am

re: #262 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

By the way, if you've never read this, you should:

[Link: drmcninja.com...]

The art improves massively as it goes along.

264 freetoken  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 4:44:08am

In Iowa, Rand Paul Urges GOP Not To Compromise

[...]
On Saturday, the younger Paul delivered the keynote speech at an Iowa Republican Party event dubbed "Night of the Rising Stars."

The change speaks volumes about the respect now given to the Pauls and the Republican Party's acceptance of much of the father and son's message.

"It is a message that the father started out with some years ago and I think it is resonating more today than it did four years ago," said former Republican Party of Iowa Chairman Stewart Iverson. "People are understanding the spending side of it better than they did four years ago."

[...]

Yup, the Paulian stars are shining brightly in the Republican universe.

265 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 4:45:31am

re: #264 freetoken

I remember when the Pauls were considered total kooks by the GOP mainstream and routinely mocked.

They were just ahead of their time in batshit insanity.

266 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 4:53:59am

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And next, they change Muslims to Liberal, Union Workers, Blacks or anyone else they disagree with.

It's actually a little more pernicious than that. It's not just a matter of one-size-fits-all hatred you can apply to different groups. In the emotion-dominated mind of the Conservative cultist, there is no difference between these groups. They're a melange - a giant gestalt of not-us, of them, of people who aren't our kind. That's the sort of mindset you need to have to accept the wild NWO conspiracy theories, the anti-government conspiracy theories, and the like, where everyone else out there is in on it, and they're all out to get you.

That's why, for example, Newt Gingrich can say something like fearing a nation 'dominated by secular atheists, some of whom are radical Islamists'. We look at that phrase and see nonsense, because we are reading the words, which are contradictory. But the mind of the cultist sees that phrase and it makes perfect sense, because the words are just noises that convey emotions. The message is totally accurate - 'If we don't win this battle for America's soul, then [people we hate] will run the country, some of whom will be [people we hate].'

267 researchok  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 4:57:56am

Morning, all

268 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 4:58:26am

Morning all, Go Butler! I'm mildly hungover so it would be appreciated if you guys can keep the shouting down to a minimum .

269 researchok  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 4:59:30am

re: #268 RogueOne

Morning all, Go Butler! I'm mildly hungover so it would be appreciated if you guys can keep the shouting down to a minimum .

I'll try.

270 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 5:00:09am

re: #268 RogueOne

Morning all, Go Butler! I'm mildly hungover so it would be appreciated if you guys can keep the shouting down to a minimum .

NO PROBLEM!

271 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 5:01:57am

re: #266 Renaissance_Man

It's actually a little more pernicious than that. It's not just a matter of one-size-fits-all hatred you can apply to different groups. In the emotion-dominated mind of the Conservative cultist, there is no difference between these groups. They're a melange - a giant gestalt of not-us, of them, of people who aren't our kind. That's the sort of mindset you need to have to accept the wild NWO conspiracy theories, the anti-government conspiracy theories, and the like, where everyone else out there is in on it, and they're all out to get you.

That's why, for example, Newt Gingrich can say something like fearing a nation 'dominated by secular atheists, some of whom are radical Islamists'. We look at that phrase and see nonsense, because we are reading the words, which are contradictory. But the mind of the cultist sees that phrase and it makes perfect sense, because the words are just noises that convey emotions. The message is totally accurate - 'If we don't win this battle for America's soul, then [people we hate] will run the country, some of whom will be [people we hate].'

ringa-ding-ding.

liberal nazi, secular sharia & anti-colonial mindset being a bad thing.............. just three of my favourites

272 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 5:03:18am

re: #270 wozzablog

NO PROBLEM!

Weren't you rooting for VCU? I never really liked you anyway...///

273 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 5:10:50am

I have to go quest for coffee and chocolate.

Too early for beer and chips :(

274 Winny Spencer  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 5:11:26am

A Romney/Bachmann ticket is looking increasingly likely, wouldn't you guys say?

275 freetoken  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 5:15:17am

re: #274 Winny Spencer

Romney's not that stupid. Even though he is desperate, he's not that stupid.

Huckabee/Bachmann, OTOH....

276 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 5:15:25am

re: #274 Winny Spencer

I think his support for the Massachusetts health care plan, combined with his Mormonism, will sink him in the primaries.

[Link: fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com...]

Here’s a scary number for Mitt Romney. According to a recent survey from Public Policy Polling, 61 percent of Republican primary voters would not be willing to vote for somebody who “supported a bill at the state level mandating that voters have health insurance,” something that Mr. Romney did in Massachusetts.


But you're right that he's polling at the top of the heap. He's the 538 favorite and the Intrade favorite to win the nomination.

277 freetoken  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 5:17:45am

If Romney did get the nomination (unlikely), he'd probably pick an "conservative" with an impeccable backgound, who likely would not have been in the primaries, and definitely would be from the South.

278 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 5:24:56am

re: #276 Obdicut

I think his support for the Massachusetts health care plan, combined with his Mormonism, will sink him in the primaries.

[Link: fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com...]


But you're right that he's polling at the top of the heap. He's the 538 favorite and the Intrade favorite to win the nomination.

It will only be a problem if the leaders of the GOP say it's a problem. By that I mean that if the demagogues who control information to the cult were to start pushing the line that state mandates for health care were fine, but federal mandates were tyranny, his Massachusetts plan will stop being a problem, in much the same way that the talking point of public unions being the devil, but private unions being a-ok became instantly accepted.

Now, that said, they did not give him that luxury during the last primaries. But the cult was less rabid and radicalised then, and they were not filled with as much fear and hatred, meaning that the only candidate that had a chance to win - McCain - was able to get the nod. I'm not sure if something similar will happen here, and the most realistic candidate (Romney) will similarly get through. I think the landscape is different now, and there's a real chance that a completely insane radical may just have enough propaganda behind him to get elected. Then the real question becomes whether the cult demagogues want a Republican President.

279 SidewaysQuark  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 5:47:10am

re: #277 freetoken


If Romney did get the nomination (unlikely), he'd probably pick an "conservative" with an impeccable backgound, who likely would not have been in the primaries, and definitely would be from the South.

Which would mean he'd be repeating John McCain's error.

280 Winny Spencer  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 5:48:43am

re: #275 freetoken

Romney's not that stupid. Even though he is desperate, he's not that stupid.

Huckabee/Bachmann, OTOH...

You guys are probably right. On the other hand, I see no compelling reason why Bachmann couldn't win Iowa and S.C. and ultimately the nomination.

281 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 5:53:15am

re: #276 Obdicut

The repubs have a habit of nominating people based on whose turn they think it is and Romney seems next on the list. Romney-Care is a big problem for him but I don't see the mormon thing being that big of a drag. The repubs could have 2 mormons running this time around.

282 Winny Spencer  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 5:55:24am

re: #281 RogueOne

The repubs have a habit of nominating people based on whose turn they think it is and Romney seems next on the list. Romney-Care is a big problem for him but I don't see the mormon thing being that big of a drag. The repubs could have 2 mormons running this time around.

I think everything might have changed since 2008, though. A large swath of the primary electorate has gone full moon.

283 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 5:55:39am

re: #279 SidewaysQuark

Which would mean he'd be repeating John McCain's error.

Given that Palin doesn't have an impeccable background and wasn't from the South, not so much.

284 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 5:57:38am

re: #282 Winny Spencer

I think it's entirely possible Bachmann could pull out a win in Iowa but other than that, she doesn't stand a prayer. Too much crazy eyes to get the nomination.

285 SidewaysQuark  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 6:00:25am

re: #41 NJDhockeyfan


The fundamentalists represent their belief better, not so much the wide spectrum of believers.

Well, of course, you're right:

John 3:36: he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.

Christians who stay true to the source material may not act out in frequent violence, but they harbor the passive-aggressive revenge fantasy that people who don't believe God murdered His Son (out of His love) will be forced to their knees at death then thrown in a pit of fire to be tortured eternally (out of His love).

Christians who don't believe this nonsense, well, I congratulate them in abandoning one of the central precepts of Christianity in favor of reason. "Cafeteria Christians" are much more rational and easier to get along with.

286 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 6:00:54am

re: #281 RogueOne

I dunno. Only 66% of 'conservatives' said that they'd be willing to vote for a Mormon, the last time a poll was taken of it.

[Link: www.gallup.com...]

And the other Mormon would be Huntsman, who, as an intelligent moderate, I think is irredeemably tainted. He doesn't vilify gay people and he was very supportive of the stimulus, and he's been working for Obama for the past two years; these things are anathema to the modern GOP.

Unless Huntsman transforms himself, I don't see him doing that well.

287 SidewaysQuark  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 6:02:07am

re: #283 Obdicut


Given that Palin doesn't have an impeccable background and wasn't from the South, not so much.

I'd assumed the "impeccable background" part was meant in sarcasm. I meant the mistake of choosing an uber-conservative that would drag the ticket down, rather than someone who would reflect the reasons he was (hypothetically) elected.

288 SidewaysQuark  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 6:03:09am

re: #286 Obdicut


And the other Mormon would be Huntsman, who, as an intelligent moderate, I think is irredeemably tainted. He doesn't vilify gay people and he was very supportive of the stimulus, and he's been working for Obama for the past two years; these things are anathema to the modern GOP.

That and he *gasp* respects science....

289 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 6:03:34am

re: #287 SidewaysQuark

Oh. I don't see Palin as an uberconservative. She's too incoherent.

290 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 6:04:32am

re: #288 SidewaysQuark

That and he *gasp* respects science...

Oh right, he understands AGW and, unsurprisingly, would like to deal with it. That's also heresy to the GOP these days, since they've decided scientists are what's wrong with the world, along with teachers, unions, and the corporation for public broadcasting.

291 Randy W. Weeks  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 6:21:59am

Curious at to what exactly makes Huntsman a republican?

292 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 6:28:02am

re: #291 LoneStarSpur

Curious at to what exactly makes Huntsman a republican?

My guess would be his choice!

293 acecraig56  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 6:30:00am

It doesn't matter what the right wing blogs say. They are just pissing in the wind. BHO has incumbent status, four major news organizations in his camp, every labor organization bought and paid for, three out of the four largest ethnic blocks guarantee the ethnic vote, and a one billion dollar war chest. Oh, and need I mention that the improving economy (rising tax revenues) will take the economy issue off the front burner. It is a political suicide mission for any right of center candidate. Besides, the Conservatives are too fractured to create the necessary fund-raising machine. BHO would really have to screw up badly over the next eighteen months and his political skills won't let that happen.

294 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 6:34:23am

Pot growers see their product smoked in house fire
[Link: www.ajc.com...]

After the blaze was put out, a line of firetrucks was seen waiting their turns at a local Taco Bell drive-thru window!

295 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 6:34:32am

re: #293 acecraig56

"Ethnic vote"?

296 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 6:38:15am

re: #295 Obdicut

I'm stuck trying to figure out the 4th.

297 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 6:40:06am

re: #296 RogueOne

I'm stuck trying to figure out the 4th.

If you can't, drink a 5th and it won't matter!

298 acecraig56  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 6:41:58am

RE:296 Black, Hispanic, Asian American, Native American

299 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 6:43:29am

re: #298 acecraig56

RE:296 Black, Hispanic, Asian American, Native American

Caucasian (Americans) don't have a vote?

300 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 6:43:43am

re: #298 acecraig56

RE:296 Black, Hispanic, Asian American, Native American

According to the CIA the 4th is asian at 4%. Native american is only 1%.

301 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 6:46:02am

Obama does have the black (97%) and hispanic (70%) vote sewn up. That's basically a 12% head start. Nice start but not overwhelming.

302 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 6:48:30am

Despite Libyan government claims....
Father of alleged Libyan rape victim says she is still missing

The father of a woman who was dragged away by officials loyal to the Libyan regime after telling journalists that troops had beaten and raped her said Saturday that he has no idea where his daughter is.

"We hope that she is still alive," Atiq al-Obeidy told CNN. "We pray for her safety but I am worried about her fate. I believe that she is imprisoned somewhere."
...
The Libyan government has repeatedly said that she has been freed.

On Thursday, government spokesman Musa Ibrahim said al-Obeidy would "hopefully" be visited by two or three female journalists by Saturday. There was no indication Saturday that any journalists had seen or spoken to her.

Ibrahim had previously said that al-Obeidy is "fine, she's healthy, she's free with her family."

303 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 6:53:49am

al-Obeidy would "hopefully" be visited by two or three female journalists by Saturday

Musa Ibrahim didn't give any info on WHICH Saturday, did he!

304 darthstar  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 6:58:14am

Suffer from restless leg syndrome? There's a new cure, it's free, and it's fun!

"sweet relief" indeed.

Too much of it will make you go blind – or so you might have been told. But for some, masturbation might have a real clinical benefit: it can ease restless leg syndrome (RLS). The insight could provide sweet relief for the 7 to 10 per cent of people in the US and Europe who suffer from the condition.
305 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 7:02:42am

re: #304 darthstar

Suffer from restless leg syndrome? There's a new cure, it's free, and it's fun!

"sweet relief" indeed.

your doctor

"Yes Mr Darth, we do prescibe this as the cure, and no, my nurse can NOT help you administer it!"

306 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 7:04:37am

re: #293 acecraig56

It doesn't matter what the right wing blogs say. They are just pissing in the wind. BHO has incumbent status, four major news organizations in his camp, every labor organization bought and paid for, three out of the four largest ethnic blocks guarantee the ethnic vote, and a one billion dollar war chest.

You forgot that he also has his own private army of brownshirts, the ability to call on his friends in Al-Qaeda, the Black Panthers, the Weathermen, Code Pink, Planned Parenthood, NPR, the backing of the UN and their bicycle infiltrators, and last but most definitely not least, George Soros.

Good thing we got to ACORN early, huh?

307 darthstar  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 7:07:10am

re: #305 sattv4u2

your doctor

"Yes Mr Darth, we do prescibe this as the cure, and no, my nurse can NOT help you administer it!"

But she already is, doc, she already is!

The downside, of course, is you'll have to get a prescription for Kleenex.

308 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 7:13:25am

re: #307 darthstar

But she already is, doc, she already is!

The downside, of course, is you'll have to get a prescription for Kleenex.

A good marketer would advise you buy in bulk in their new Stimulus Package!

309 darthstar  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 7:18:12am

re: #308 sattv4u2

A good marketer would advise you buy in bulk in their new Stimulus Package!

"Caution: Do not take while driving or operating heavy machinery." Damn.

310 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 7:19:17am

re: #309 darthstar

"Caution: Do not take while driving or operating heavy machinery." Damn.

What if I was really hung

Wouldn't I HAVE to operate heavy machinery!?!?!

311 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 7:24:58am

Obama condemns Quran burning, violence in Afghanistan

President Obama and other U.S. officials are condemning both the burning of a Quran at a Florida church, and the violence in Afghanistan protesting it.

"The desecration of any holy text, including the Quran, is an act of extreme intolerance and bigotry," Obama said in a statement issued Saturday night. "However, to attack and kill innocent people in response is outrageous, and an affront to human decency and dignity"

David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in the Afghanistan war, issued a similar statement.

312 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 7:35:45am

Ah well

The coffee pot is empty

The dogs want out

And I need a shower

313 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 7:46:58am

re: #275 freetoken

Romney's not that stupid. Even though he is desperate, he's not that stupid.

Huckabee/Bachmann, OTOH...

Must Concur. Romney isn't the kind to nominate a running mate who can't be controlled. He tries to stay orderly and on message, whereas Bachmann seems to just spout whatever crazy idea comes into her head.

314 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 7:49:15am

re: #301 RogueOne

Obama does have the black (97%) and hispanic (70%) vote sewn up. That's basically a 12% head start. Nice start but not overwhelming.

Hispanic, something can be done about, as Marco Rubio and George W. Bush showed. But to do that, the GOP is going to have make clear that 'anti-illegal immigration' does not mean 'anti-immigrant'. That was clear back in 2004 under Bush, but since has been lost.

315 allegro  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:02:45am

re: #314 Dark_Falcon

But to do that, the GOP is going to have make clear that 'anti-illegal immigration' does not mean 'anti-immigrant' 'anti-brown'.

I haven't seen any indication that the GOP objects to white immigrants, legal or illegal.

316 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:03:35am

Black Extremists Blast Obama’s Decision to Weaken Qaddafy, With One Predicting Spaceships

Louis Farrakhan, leader of the Nation of Islam (NOI), warned Thursday during a rambling press conference at the group’s headquarters in Chicago. The uprisings in the Arab world coupled with the tsunami in Japan signify that divine spaceships waiting to avenge black suffering will soon arrive, Farrakhan said. “Brother Barack’s” decision to back the Libyan opposition against Qaddafi – who in 1972 lent NOI’s leadership $3 million to buy the headquarters from which Farrakhan broadcast his speech – is only going to hasten the UFOs’ arrival.

317 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:07:53am

re: #316 Killgore Trout

Black Extremists Blast Obama’s Decision to Weaken Qaddafy, With One Predicting Spaceships

That's even crazier than usual. I think he's gone senile.

318 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:10:34am

re: #317 Dark_Falcon

That's even crazier than usual. I think he's gone senile.

Not really. He's always had a UFO thing but most papers don't make a big deal out of it for some reason.

319 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:12:33am

Real knock-down, drag-out fight in Florida is over commercial interior design
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]


Forget about the tussles between unions and lawmakers, the Legislature and governor, Democrats and Republicans.

The real knock-down, drag-out fight this session is over commercial interior design.

Tears and cheers have punctuated hours of testimony as licensed interior designers warn lawmakers that lives will be lost to flammable fabrics and paints if they don't keep regulation of the profession in place.

"Buildings do not burn. Interiors do," Gail Griffin, a professor at Miami Dade College's School of Architecture and Interior Design, told the House Appropriations Committee on Wednesday.

*snort*

320 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:13:25am

re: #318 Killgore Trout

Not really. He's always had a UFO thing but most papers don't make a big deal out of it for some reason.

They're in on it...they want to believe! That's why you never see clear pics of bigfoot, they suppress the real truth.

321 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:15:37am

re: #318 Killgore Trout

Not really. He's always had a UFO thing but most papers don't make a big deal out of it for some reason.

I wonder if they are going to use the Heavens Gate method to meet the mothership?

322 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:15:54am

re: #318 Killgore Trout

Let jesse explain it to you:

Youtube Video
323 BongCrodny  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:16:56am

re: #286 Obdicut

I dunno. Only 66% of 'conservatives' said that they'd be willing to vote for a Mormon, the last time a poll was taken of it.

[Link: www.gallup.com...]

And the other Mormon would be Huntsman, who, as an intelligent moderate, I think is irredeemably tainted. He doesn't vilify gay people and he was very supportive of the stimulus, and he's been working for Obama for the past two years; these things are anathema to the modern GOP.

Unless Huntsman transforms himself, I don't see him doing that well.


Huntsman's young; he should wait until '16. There's no obvious successor to Obama (Biden2016.com is there for the taking for only $69.99 at GoDaddy!), and I don't think it hurts Huntsman by waiting to see whether or not the crazy will burn off. If the Republicans beclown themselves in 2012, folks might be more inclined to find a saner voice in 2016.

I don't know if I'll ever vote for another Republican, but it sure wouldn't hurt my feelings if the Republicans had a Huntsman-type on the other side of the net instead of someone from the Palin/Bachman/Huckabee crowd.

BTW, I finally managed to track down Pratchett's Nation. It was a good read, which is the best thing you can say about any book. :-)

324 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:17:40am

re: #321 Walter L. Newton

I wonder if they are going to use the Heavens Gate method to meet the mothership?

jogging suits and nike's?

325 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:19:31am

re: #320 RogueOne

They're in on it...they want to believe! That's why you never see clear pics of bigfoot, they suppress the real truth.

Fox Mulder, is that you?

/

326 abolitionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:20:19am

Official: Libyan rebels seek democracy

"Libyans as a whole — and I am one of them — want a civilian democracy, not dictatorship, not tribalism and not one based on violence or terrorism," Abdel-Hafidh Ghoga, vice chairman of the National Provisional Council, said in an interview with The Associated Press.
[snip]

The U.S. said it stopped flying strike missions in Libya starting Sunday, having passed the mission's military burden to NATO. NATO's on-scene commander can request American strikes, which Washington must approve.

NATO Chief Opposes Arming Libyan Rebels; NATO Commander Warns Against Attacks on Civilians - Thursday, March 31, 2011

How many ways can we spell quagmire ?

327 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:22:03am

re: #326 abolitionist

Official: Libyan rebels seek democracy

NATO Chief Opposes Arming Libyan Rebels; NATO Commander Warns Against Attacks on Civilians - Thursday, March 31, 2011

How many ways can we spell quagmire ?

The administration is "concerned" again...

"US 'deeply concerned' by violence in Ivory Coast"

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton says the U.S. is "deeply concerned" about the situation in the Ivory Coast and reports of human rights abuses and a massacre of more than 1,000 people.

[Link: hosted.ap.org...]

328 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:28:38am

re: #327 Walter L. Newton

The administration is "concerned" again...

"US 'deeply concerned' by violence in Ivory Coast"

[Link: hosted.ap.org...]

That's African political violence. We'll 'tut-tut' but do nothing. It's what we always do in such cases.

329 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:29:16am

re: #327 Walter L. Newton

Apart from the world wars, have we ever deployed armed forces in 3 or 4 wars, uh, police action, um, military kinetic actions? (whatever you call these)

Obama could go down in history as the most warring President ever.

330 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:30:48am

re: #326 abolitionist

Good news on that front:

Army commanders have now taken stronger command of the opposition forces near Brega, using simple high frequency radios and GPS systems to institute better communications and strategy.

"I wouldn't say that it's highly organised at the moment, but it's slowly getting there," Abdel-Hamid reported.

She says that two retreats, and a number of casualties and deaths, have made the opposition fighters realise that their enthusiasm alone may not be enough, and that they must ponder their strategy.

They're quick learners. Unfortunately, problems are still in Misratah and Zintan. Airstrikes may be necessary. The people of Misratah are extremely brave. Fighting has been raging at them for weeks, and they're still holding on.

331 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:30:59am

re: #329 Rightwingconspirator

Apart from the world wars, have we ever deployed armed forces in 3 or 4 wars, uh, police action, um, military kinetic actions? (whatever you call these)

Obama could go down in history as the most warring President ever.

He didn't make the decision to go into Iraq and Afghanistan. That was the other guy.

332 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:31:23am

It would be nice if Terry Jones would listen to this person. Petraeus knows what he is talking about. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Yes I am advertising my page.

333 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:33:48am

re: #330 ProLifeLiberal

Good news on that front:

They're quick learners. Unfortunately, problems are still in Misratah and Zintan. Airstrikes may be necessary. The people of Misratah are extremely brave. Fighting has been raging at them for weeks, and they're still holding on.

Bottom line... unless WE put boots on the ground, these people are fucked... royally. They started something they can't finish, France, Germany, Britain, the US and various insignificant entities payed with them for a week, and blammo, we're out of there.

They're fucked.

334 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:34:13am

re: #331 marjoriemoon

He didn't make the decision to go into Iraq and Afghanistan. That was the other guy.

It's his NOW... isn't it?

335 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:34:33am

re: #331 marjoriemoon

True, but Afghanistan was on no matter what. I'm not saying he did all this by choice. Of course what gets many Presidents in the history books besides getting elected is not by choice. Just a result of the course of events during their term. This just begs another question-How many engagements can our military prosecute?

336 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:40:08am

re: #335 Rightwingconspirator

True, but Afghanistan was on no matter what. I'm not saying he did all this by choice. Of course what gets many Presidents in the history books besides getting elected is not by choice. Just a result of the course of events during their term. This just begs another question-How many engagements can our military prosecute?

I think we're stretched about as thin as we can reasonably go. We have plenty of assets deployed in the Mediterranean but I don't think we'll see any more new engagements until Libya is under control.

337 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:40:19am

re: #334 Walter L. Newton

It's his NOW... isn't it?

Yes, but to say he's the most warring president would be silly. He couldn't just up and leave the first day in office, although we have a plan for that soon. So he inherited a war he didn't like and didn't even vote for. Libya is the first conflict he made the decision to join. If you don't count the Somali pirates.

338 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:41:59am

Gotta go. BBL

339 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:43:43am

re: #335 Rightwingconspirator

True, but Afghanistan was on no matter what. I'm not saying he did all this by choice. Of course what gets many Presidents in the history books besides getting elected is not by choice. Just a result of the course of events during their term. This just begs another question-How many engagements can our military prosecute?

Gotta use that defense spending somewhere! (Ok, that was a joke.)

There's no way we could have avoided the Libyan conflict. If we didn't join NATO and the others, the criticism on him would have been catastrophic. I think Obama handled it very well. This is not OUR war. We did our part.

Had they left Qaddafi alone, other than killing tens of 1000s, you'd have millions of people fleeing into Europe and Egypt.

340 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:50:04am

re: #335 Rightwingconspirator

True, but Afghanistan was on no matter what. I'm not saying he did all this by choice. Of course what gets many Presidents in the history books besides getting elected is not by choice. Just a result of the course of events during their term. This just begs another question-How many engagements can our military prosecute?

Look to Rome for your answers.

341 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 8:53:13am

re: #339 marjoriemoon

Gotta use that defense spending somewhere! (Ok, that was a joke.)

There's no way we could have avoided the Libyan conflict. If we didn't join NATO and the others, the criticism on him would have been catastrophic. I think Obama handled it very well. This is not OUR war. We did our part.

Had they left Qaddafi alone, other than killing tens of 1000s, you'd have millions of people fleeing into Europe and Egypt.

Agreed in full. Obama had little choice in Libya. And in the Ivory Coast we again see the French taking the lead. This points out why the long wars need to be brought to a conclusion. Our nation needs to be doing less fighting for many reasons. Our military needs the chance to repair, retrain and rest. The globe needs to quit (on one hand) bitching we fight so much, and then looking to us for the hardware and trained fighters. Ground, air and sea.

But as I said events are in charge really.

342 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:00:36am

re: #341 Rightwingconspirator

Agreed in full. Obama had little choice in Libya. And in the Ivory Coast we again see the French taking the lead. This points out why the long wars need to be brought to a conclusion. Our nation needs to be doing less fighting for many reasons. Our military needs the chance to repair, retrain and rest. The globe needs to quit (on one hand) bitching we fight so much, and then looking to us for the hardware and trained fighters. Ground, air and sea.

But as I said events are in charge really.

Libya was in the thick of it in that region - the Arab risings. Qaddafi was more brutal to put down his uprisings than the others. It's a different situation than the Ivory Coast in terms of how it would effect the bigger picture in that region. We can't just choose to do less fighting as the world erupts around us.

What's the most frightening of course is that things could become worse than Mubarak and Qaddafi. So that's the scary part.

343 abolitionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:01:15am

re: #327 Walter L. Newton

The administration is "concerned" again...

"US 'deeply concerned' by violence in Ivory Coast"

[Link: hosted.ap.org...]


Ouattara Forces Advance in Abidjan; Massacre Leaves 800 Dead
April 03, 2011, 4:04 AM EDT

The United Nations, the U.S., the African Union and the U.K. are calling on Gbagbo, 65, to hand power over to Ouattara, 69, whom they recognize as the winner of the nation’s first election in a decade. Gbagbo refuses to accept defeat in the Nov. 28 vote.

Ouattara’s forces entered Abidjan on March 30, attacking Gbagbo’s palace, army camps and the state-run television headquarters.

Hope they catch on soon to how that democracy stuff is supposed to work.

344 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:03:18am

re: #340 Walter L. Newton

Ouch.

345 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:06:17am

And on the weather front... it's a white out 45 minutes west of my location, at the Eisenhower Tunnel at the continental divide in the Rockies... and this weather is headed my way...

Image: camera?imageURL=60002.jpg

346 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:09:44am

David Lynch weights in on the new Iphone 4...

Youtube Video
347 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:12:08am

re: #39 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

If history has taught us anything, it's that such protections can be broken, it's just a matter of finding the right wedge to do the job. In recent years, the wedge tried has been that the word "Creator" and random quotes from our Founding Fathers "prove" that America was intended to be a "Christian nation."

Personally, I await the day we have a president who can stand up and say that he does not believe in one religion or another. Maybe, if I wish really hard, I'll see it within my own lifetime.

This will never happen. Ever. Not in a million years. There is FAR too much magical thinking in this country for the electorate to ever accept a freethinker.

It's a nice dream, but it's also a hopeless one.

348 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:16:26am

re: #331 marjoriemoon

Osama made the Afghanistan decision for us. Same as Japan at Pearl.

On Iraq, I agree with you.I happen to think Saddam would have done something that would have to be dealt with by his removal at some point or another. Like Arab spring maybe. But I merely speculate.

349 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:22:40am

re: #348 Rightwingconspirator

Osama made the Afghanistan decision for us. Same as Japan at Pearl.

On Iraq, I agree with you.I happen to think Saddam would have done something that would have to be dealt with by his removal at some point or another. Like Arab spring maybe. But I merely speculate.

Osama didn't force us to stay there for a decade. He didn't force us to occupy the country.

Once it was clear we had failed in our mission there, that AQ had merely been displaced into border territories, and that OBL was no longer in Afghanistan, we should have gotten the hell out. That's the problem with the US militarily: we never admit failure, even when it is absurdly obvious. We just keep chucking our young men into the grinder, hoping we will get different results; one definition of insanity.

Occupying Afghanistan is a fool's errand, and it always has been. The British know this, the Russians know this, and now America knows this. Funny thing is, Osama knew this too. He planned on it.

350 Achilles Tang  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:24:35am

re: #348 Rightwingconspirator

Osama made the Afghanistan decision for us. Same as Japan at Pearl.

On Iraq, I agree with you.I happen to think Saddam would have done something that would have to be dealt with by his removal at some point or another. Like Arab spring maybe. But I merely speculate.

I will speculate that none of these recent revolutions would have happened, at least not yet, had it not been for the overthrow of Saddam and the example Iraq has set, however flawed it may be.

.

351 abolitionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:26:49am

re: #39 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

If history has taught us anything, it's that such protections can be broken, it's just a matter of finding the right wedge to do the job. In recent years, the wedge tried has been that the word "Creator" and random quotes from our Founding Fathers "prove" that America was intended to be a "Christian nation."

Personally, I await the day we have a president who can stand up and say that he does not believe in one religion or another. Maybe, if I wish really hard, I'll see it within my own lifetime.

re: #347 Fozzie Bear

This will never happen. Ever. Not in a million years. There is FAR too much magical thinking in this country for the electorate to ever accept a freethinker.

It's a nice dream, but it's also a hopeless one.

He wasn't yet President, but Obama: We are no longer a Christian Nation

352 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:32:24am

re: #349 Fozzie Bear

Osama didn't force us to stay there for a decade. He didn't force us to occupy the country.

Once it was clear we had failed in our mission there, that AQ had merely been displaced into border territories, and that OBL was no longer in Afghanistan, we should have gotten the hell out. That's the problem with the US militarily: we never admit failure, even when it is absurdly obvious. We just keep chucking our young men into the grinder, hoping we will get different results; one definition of insanity.

Occupying Afghanistan is a fool's errand, and it always has been. The British know this, the Russians know this, and now America knows this. Funny thing is, Osama knew this too. He planned on it.

There was a comment today on This Week that the police in Mazar-i-Sharif were ineffective in containing the protests that killed the UN workers. IOW, we haven't finished training them to protect and serve their own people, but I suppose there's a number of ways to look at that. Is it our responsibility at this point to do so? Will they be able to uphold the law despite personal feelings, religious and political? Karzai hates us at this point, I think that's clear and that can't bode well for anything.

I don't know the answer.

353 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:33:32am

re: #349 Fozzie Bear

So helping Afghanistan try have a sane elected government is such a bad idea?
That is the other side of the coin you present.

Then we have the argument that the reason Osama even had a chance to organize there was the fact Afghanistan was abandoned by the west after the Soviets left. So we should have just bombed the mountains (missed Osama for sure) and abandoned the place again to it's own tribal warlord self? And risked the Taliban AQ alliance attacking big time again and again?

I'm not impressed at all by this policy "alternative".
Neither were two Presidents.

354 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:36:33am

re: #353 Rightwingconspirator

Neither were two Presidents.

Did I mention one of those Presidents is a Democrat absent any Neocon or energy influences?

355 allegro  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:38:53am

re: #352 marjoriemoon

There was a comment today on This Week that the police in Mazar-i-Sharif were ineffective in containing the protests that killed the UN workers. IOW, we haven't finished training them to protect and serve their own people, but I suppose there's a number of ways to look at that. Is it our responsibility at this point to do so? Will they be able to uphold the law despite personal feelings, religious and political? Karzai hates us at this point, I think that's clear and that can't bode well for anything.

I don't know the answer.

That answer is, to me, total bull hockey. We haven't finished training them? One, after ten years there, that states that they are really stupid and unable to learn. Two, it makes US responsible for them, removing all responsibility from them. That's just the beginning.

There is a lot of choice here that I hope to see come about though I'm not holding my breath. They choose to govern themselves and we choose to get the hell out.

356 zora  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:40:43am

re: #221 NJDhockeyfan

from the link:

Goldstonism – Noun. Named after Jewish Judge Richard Goldstone, who drafted an anti-Israeli report utilized by global Islam’s propaganda in its war against the democratic Jewish state. Definition: The term refers to the ability to maneuver a person in a way that serves totalitarian ideologies by utilizing a collective sense of guilt and turning him into a “useful idiot.

”

357 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:40:50am

They were both fools for thinking being determined to do something is sufficient substitute for being capable of doing so. You can't "give" the Afghans a sane elected government. That requires a sane, educated electorate.

It is my position that a major ground offensive in Afghanistan to establish stable democratic institutions was a bad idea from the beginning. Not because it was an ignoble goal, but because it was, and is, an impossible one.

358 Girth  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:42:21am

re: #350 Naso Tang

I will speculate that none of these recent revolutions would have happened, at least not yet, had it not been for the overthrow of Saddam and the example Iraq has set, however flawed it may be.

.

I will speculate that these recent revolutions have nothing to do with Saddam and everything to do with the internet and communications technology.

359 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:44:28am

re: #234 prononymous

I think this misses quite a lot of human history. For much of european history, for example, most people drank beer not water. Even children were given dilute beer. The reason is that the drinking water wasn't safe at all, less so than drinking swamp water, because they didn't have proper sanitation.

True, but we must have been drinking something until we learned brewing technology--and I'm willing to bet that was quite a big chunk of human history overall.

360 Achilles Tang  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:44:29am

re: #352 marjoriemoon

There was a comment today on This Week that the police in Mazar-i-Sharif were ineffective in containing the protests that killed the UN workers. IOW, we haven't finished training them to protect and serve their own people, but I suppose there's a number of ways to look at that. Is it our responsibility at this point to do so? Will they be able to uphold the law despite personal feelings, religious and political? Karzai hates us at this point, I think that's clear and that can't bode well for anything.

I don't know the answer.

A (half) civilized society would have arrested the Imams of the mosque that started this, and any murderers that were identified. But that is their form of free speech.//

There is no nice answer.

361 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:44:47am

re: #355 allegro

That answer is, to me, total bull hockey. We haven't finished training them? One, after ten years there, that states that they are really stupid and unable to learn. Two, it makes US responsible for them, removing all responsibility from them. That's just the beginning.

There is a lot of choice here that I hope to see come about though I'm not holding my breath. They choose to govern themselves and we choose to get the hell out.

The point they were making is that the police forces are still "prejudice" either religiously or politically which I believe is the problem the U.S. is having with them. In the Western countries, police uphold the law no matter how they personally feel about the perpetrator. That's the "training" that hasn't gotten across.

We're supposed to be starting our pull out this summer so we'll see what happens by that time.

362 blueraven  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:45:07am

re: #353 Rightwingconspirator

So helping Afghanistan try have a sane elected government is such a bad idea?
That is the other side of the coin you present.

Then we have the argument that the reason Osama even had a chance to organize there was the fact Afghanistan was abandoned by the west after the Soviets left. So we should have just bombed the mountains (missed Osama for sure) and abandoned the place again to it's own tribal warlord self? And risked the Taliban AQ alliance attacking big time again and again?

I'm not impressed at all by this policy "alternative".
Neither were two Presidents.

Perhaps if we had kept the pressure on the Taliban in the early days, instead of letting them regroup we wouldn't have this mess now. But we diverted our attention to Iraq. Then President Bush declared Mission Accomplished in Iraq and claimed we had defeated the Taliban in Afghanistan forever.

It is what it is now, but those who blame this debacle on Obama takes all kind of crazy. We are getting out of Iraq.

363 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:46:35am

re: #350 Naso Tang

I will speculate that none of these recent revolutions would have happened, at least not yet, had it not been for the overthrow of Saddam and the example Iraq has set, however flawed it may be.

.

I was listening to NPR and heard a US diplomat argue just that point, and quite persuasively.

I do think it's time for us to get the hell out of the region and watch for a while to see what develops. And we need to get out of Afghanistan also. If we couldn't "train" their security forces to stand up to rioting mobs of illiterates in 11 years, it ain't gonna happen in 11 more. And we can't afford to keep throwing billions of dollars a year at the problem, either. If we're gonna build roads, schools, and hospitals anywhere, it should be here....or perhaps, Mexico to help stabilize that nation, which sits right on our border.

364 zora  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:46:39am

re: #265 Obdicut

I remember when the Pauls were considered total kooks by the GOP mainstream and routinely mocked.

They were just ahead of their time in batshit insanity.

iirc, ron paul was excluded from the fox primary debate. and they had to own convention.

365 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:46:47am

re: #357 Fozzie Bear

They were both fools for thinking being determined to do something is sufficient substitute for being capable of doing so. You can't "give" the Afghans a sane elected government. That requires a sane, educated electorate.

It is my position that a major ground offensive in Afghanistan to establish stable democratic institutions was a bad idea from the beginning. Not because it was an ignoble goal, but because it was, and is, an impossible one.

Ariel Sharon met with George Bush before the 2003 invasion of Iraq and he told him not to do it. His words were, unless you're ready to go into the country, plant the American flag there and own it, you'll be in a terrible quagmire and in the end you won't win. And if anyone should know, he knows.

366 M. Dubious  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:47:44am

Sometimes I catch myself thinking "let's just put all the extremists on an island and let them wipe each other out". But then I realize, by thinking that, I just put myself on that island.

367 Achilles Tang  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:49:06am

re: #358 Girth

I will speculate that these recent revolutions have nothing to do with Saddam and everything to do with the internet and communications technology.

Of course it plays a role, but it didn't help in Iran.

Think about it. If Iraq, possibly still occupying Kuwait and threatening Saudi, was still the largest military in the Arab world and perfectly willing to use it, do you really think that would have no effect on the other dictators nearby?

Whether one supported the war(s) in Iraq or not I think it will in retrospect be seen as the trigger for what has followed.

368 Achilles Tang  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:50:38am

BBL

369 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:52:06am

re: #362 blueraven

Perhaps if we had kept the pressure on the Taliban in the early days, instead of letting them regroup we wouldn't have this mess now. But we diverted our attention to Iraq. Then President Bush declared Mission Accomplished in Iraq and claimed we had defeated the Taliban in Afghanistan forever.

It is what it is now, but those who blame this debacle on Obama takes all kind of crazy. We are getting out of Iraq.

I think it's a mistake to think that we could ever have stabilized Afghanistan, even if we had not diverted forces elsewhere. It reminds me of the "but if we had just done X, Y and Z" arguments regarding Vietnam.

The blame resides with whoever has the ability to begin get the hell out, and fails to, just as much as it does with the idiots who thought it was a good idea in the first place. Obama owns these wars now, and he owns the responsibility of ending them. The longer he fails to do so, the more responsible for the results he becomes.

370 zora  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:52:50am

re: #286 Obdicut

yes, but how about if they believe that the choice is between a mormon and a black secret muslim usurper. that makes mormonism look a lot more palatable to them.

371 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:53:12am

re: #349 Fozzie Bear

Osama didn't force us to stay there for a decade. He didn't force us to occupy the country.

Once it was clear we had failed in our mission there, that AQ had merely been displaced into border territories, and that OBL was no longer in Afghanistan, we should have gotten the hell out. That's the problem with the US militarily: we never admit failure, even when it is absurdly obvious. We just keep chucking our young men into the grinder, hoping we will get different results; one definition of insanity.

Occupying Afghanistan is a fool's errand, and it always has been. The British know this, the Russians know this, and now America knows this. Funny thing is, Osama knew this too. He planned on it.

Sadly, I'm not sure America is willing to "know" yet. I think the tide is turning, but too many still think we have to stay there longer.

372 SidewaysQuark  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:53:51am

re: #353 Rightwingconspirator


So we should have just bombed the mountains (missed Osama for sure) and abandoned the place again to it's own tribal warlord self? And risked the Taliban AQ alliance attacking big time again and again?

I wouldn't go so far, but I think going after Bin Laden should have been the SOLE FOCUS of the military campaign from the beginning, no ill-defined "nation-building" or "war on terror".

373 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:54:02am

re: #357 Fozzie Bear

Of course we can not "give" them a government. We can only help them try. Or not? Leave them to their fate under the Taliban. By that measure, we had no reason to act in Libya either. Just leave them to their deaths. Rwanda, Cambodia, Sudan. Ivory Coast. Never mind just read about the carnage and move along. Not Our problem. It's too hard. Just send food & the UN to the huge squalid inevitable refugee camps.

374 Winny Spencer  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:56:50am

re: #370 zora

yes, but how about if they believe that the choice is between a mormon and a black secret muslim usurper. that makes mormonism look a lot more palatable to them.

That doesn't help him in the primaries though.

375 blueraven  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:57:10am

re: #369 Fozzie Bear

I think it's a mistake to think that we could ever have stabilized Afghanistan, even if we had not diverted forces elsewhere. It reminds me of the "but if we had just done X, Y and Z" arguments regarding Vietnam.

The blame resides with whoever has the ability to begin get the hell out, and fails to, just as much as it does with the idiots who thought it was a good idea in the first place. Obama owns these wars now, and he owns the responsibility of ending them. The longer he fails to do so, the more responsible for the results he becomes.

When our President makes a statement in Nove 2003 that "We have put the Taliban out of business forever", that implies a total misread of the situation. Please dont tell me that the outcome might not have been different, had it not been for this foolish attitude and diversion of assets. I will never believe that.

376 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:57:59am

re: #373 Rightwingconspirator

Of course we can not "give" them a government. We can only help them try. Or not? Leave them to their fate under the Taliban. By that measure, we had no reason to act in Libya either. Just leave them to their deaths. Rwanda, Cambodia, Sudan. Ivory Coast. Never mind just read about the carnage and move along. Not Our problem. It's too hard. Just send food & the UN to the huge squalid inevitable refugee camps.

To be honest, I really don't care if they kill each other. Let them have at it, but it's no longer a big planet. It's teeny tiny and what happens there spills out all over which culminated in 9/11 and dozens more bombings of innocents in the Western world.

377 zora  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 9:58:57am

re: #317 Dark_Falcon

That's even crazier than usual. I think he's gone senile.

actually it's the same crazy. ufo's play a big part in his theology/fuckery.

378 Girth  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:00:51am

re: #367 Naso Tang

Of course it plays a role, but it didn't help in Iran.

Think about it. If Iraq, possibly still occupying Kuwait and threatening Saudi, was still the largest military in the Arab world and perfectly willing to use it, do you really think that would have no effect on the other dictators nearby?

Whether one supported the war(s) in Iraq or not I think it will in retrospect be seen as the trigger for what has followed.

Possibly still occupying Kuwait? How far back are we going in order to set up this hypothetical? It's pretty hard to find people that think that Desert Storm was controversial.

I'm certainly no expert, but I see Iraq and Iran as counter-balancing weights on a scale. Iran would not have sit still while Iraq tried to take over Saudi oil fields. Not to say that they're friends, they're certainly not, but Iran would have seen an opportunity to force Iraq to fight a two-front war. Conversely, by knocking the head off Iraq, we have given Iran the opportunity to be an unopposed regional power.

I certainly won't argue how things will be perceived, and there's no way to know if Iraq accelerated things, but the bottom line point I was trying to make is that I don't believe that people are suddenly seven years later looking at Iraq sans Saddam and revolting. I think this is a natural outcome of the information revolution and the spread of cheap portable communications more than anything.

379 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:01:19am
Military commander Gen. David Petraeus and the top NATO civilian representative in Afghanistan, Mark Sedwill, said they "hope the Afghan people understand that the actions of a small number of individuals, who have been extremely disrespectful to the holy Quran, are not representative of any of the countries of the international community who are in Afghanistan to help the Afghan people."

They don't want our "help."

380 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:03:53am

re: #379 funky chicken

Not even the women?

381 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:05:38am

re: #316 Killgore Trout

Black Extremists Blast Obama’s Decision to Weaken Qaddafy, With One Predicting Spaceships

I wonder how President Obama feels about his "quirky" Chicago neighbors now? Bill Ayers ("Viva la revolucion!" in Caracas with Chavez, who was Mad Mo's BFF for a few days last month, etc) and now Crazie Louie.

Interesting neighborhood, to say the least.

382 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:08:00am

re: #380 Rightwingconspirator

Not even the women?

It's not my job to care more about their women and children than they do. My husband did a tour over there, and it's not his job either. Well, it was and still is until he retires, but honestly? And if you asked the women, I'm not sure a majority would want us to stay either.

Our own schools and roads are crumbling. We need to fix them instead of trying to build something in Afghanistan that they don't want anyway.

383 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:08:00am

re: #381 funky chicken

I wonder how President Obama feels about his "quirky" Chicago neighbors now? Bill Ayers ("Viva la revolucion!" in Caracas with Chavez, who was Mad Mo's BFF for a few days last month, etc) and now Crazie Louie.

Interesting neighborhood, to say the least.

Farrakhan is still a pretty fringe character and is properly shunned by most sensible people. I find it disgusting that Ayers is tolerated in lefty circles.

384 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:10:22am

re: #381 funky chicken

Er, Obama has already repudiated Farrakhan, and they've never been neighbors.

Or are you just saying everyone in Chicago are neighbors of each other?

I used to live near Farrakhan. I'd go and stand outside his (butt-ugly) house wearing a Star of David t-shirt, and then debate with his ministers when they'd show up to inquire what the hell I was doing there. Sadly, most of them were very bright young men who just wanted to help their community, and believed Farrakhan's bullshit.

385 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:11:37am

Speaking of stupid lefties....
Reid: Probe of Quran Burning Considered


Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says congressional lawmakers discussing taking some action in response to the Koran burnings of a Tennessee pastor that led to killings at the U.N. facility in Afghanistan and sparked protests across the Middle East, Politico reports.

“Ten to 20 people have been killed," Reid said Sunday on CBS’ “Face the Nation.” “We’ll take a look at this of course. As to whether we need hearings or not, I don’t know.”

Sen. Lindsey Graham said Congress might need to explore the need to limit some forms of freedom of speech, in light of Tennessee pastor Terry Jones’ Quran burning, and how such actions result in enabling U.S. enemies.

"I wish we could find a way to hold people accountable. Free speech is a great idea, but we're in a war," Graham told CBS' Bob Schieffer on “Face the Nation” Sunday.

“During World War II, we had limits on what you could do if it inspired the enemy," Graham said, adding certain speech can “put our troops at risk.”


Morons.

386 redmalamute  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:11:56am

The comments on the article at CNN are equally disgusting. The right seems to forget that along with freedom of speech comes responsibility for what you say.

387 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:12:25am

re: #370 zora

yes, but how about if they believe that the choice is between a mormon and a black secret muslim usurper. that makes mormonism look a lot more palatable to them.

I think there's a substantial chunk of the fundamentalist community that, in that case, doesn't vote.

388 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:12:42am

re: #377 zora

actually it's the same crazy. ufo's play a big part in his theology/fuckery.

Ok, this is bizarre, but something I was thinking of recently watching a UFO program.

Do you know the story of Barney and Betty Hill? It's a great story and quite frankly, I believe them. Without going into great detail, they had an Encounter of the Third Kind in the early 60s.They were also an interracial couple. He was Black and she was White (she died in 2003 or 2004).

The two most compelling things about their story is that she was supposedly shown a map of where the aliens lived. A star system in our galaxy that wasn't mapped until about 10 years after their encounter.

The other compelling issue was they did a pregnancy test, or what they told her was a pregnancy test by inserting a needle in her naval. Another procedure not yet used until many years later to check for Downs Syndrome.

It was done into a movie which is pretty slow and uneventful by today's action-packed standards, but it's very good.

I mention this, as wacky as it sounds, because they also took semen from him. I'll let you draw the conclusion :)

389 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:13:47am

re: #386 redmalamute

The comments on the article at CNN are equally disgusting. The right seems to forget that along with freedom of speech comes responsibility for what you say.

I think the Internet has made a lot of people forget that.

390 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:14:57am

re: #383 Killgore Trout

Farrakhan is still a pretty fringe character and is properly shunned by most sensible people. I find it disgusting that Ayers is tolerated in lefty circles.

Ayers has a great talent with our language, but I would guess even he would struggle to sufficiently justify his plans for the Ft. Dix enlisted club dance to President Obama today.

I do think BO has grown in office, and I would guess that seeing old friends with new eyes has been a large, and somewhat painful, part of that growth.

391 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:15:06am

re: #388 marjoriemoon

Ok, this is bizarre, but something I was thinking of recently watching a UFO program.

Do you know the story of Barney and Betty Hill? It's a great story and quite frankly, I believe them. Without going into great detail, they had an Encounter of the Third Kind in the early 60s.They were also an interracial couple. He was Black and she was White (she died in 2003 or 2004).

The two most compelling things about their story is that she was supposedly shown a map of where the aliens lived. A star system in our galaxy that wasn't mapped until about 10 years after their encounter.

The other compelling issue was they did a pregnancy test, or what they told her was a pregnancy test by inserting a needle in her naval. Another procedure not yet used until many years later to check for Downs Syndrome.

It was done into a movie which is pretty slow and uneventful by today's action-packed standards, but it's very good.

I mention this, as wacky as it sounds, because they also took semen from him. I'll let you draw the conclusion :)

Oh, DEAR.

But they were both U.S. citizens, right? So that's all right, then.

392 blueraven  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:15:56am

re: #385 Killgore Trout

Speaking of stupid lefties...
Reid: Probe of Quran Burning Considered


Morons.

Karzai is the one who added the fuel to this flame. Asshole.

I do think things are different in wartime...when someone knowingly does something that could endanger our troops, where do we draw the line?

393 zora  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:17:24am

re: #390 funky chicken

Ayers has a great talent with our language, but I would guess even he would struggle to sufficiently justify his plans for the Ft. Dix enlisted club dance to President Obama today.

I do think BO has grown in office, and I would guess that seeing old friends with new eyes has been a large, and somewhat painful, part of that growth.

why do you think ayers is an old friend of obama?

394 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:17:25am

I do think BO has grown in office, and I would guess that seeing old friends with new eyes has been a large, and somewhat painful, part of that growth.

They are not old friends. They were tied to Obama as part of a smear that obviously worked.

395 M. Dubious  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:17:32am

re: #384 Obdicut

Obama needs to refudiate Chicago and western Illinois. Then maybe, just maybe, we'll be ready to accept all the other refudisation he needs get done as well.

396 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:18:57am

re: #390 funky chicken

Ayers has a great talent with our language, but I would guess even he would struggle to sufficiently justify his plans for the Ft. Dix enlisted club dance to President Obama today.

I do think BO has grown in office, and I would guess that seeing old friends with new eyes has been a large, and somewhat painful, part of that growth.

Are you aware that you basically just said that prior to taking office as President of the United States, you figure that Obama would have been cool with the bombing of a dance for servicemen?

Did you mean something else?

397 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:19:23am

re: #385 Killgore Trout

Speaking of stupid lefties...
Reid: Probe of Quran Burning Considered


Morons.

LOLZ Harry Reid is certainly stupid, but not really a leftist. And Lindsey Graham isn't stupid or lefty at all, usually.

Why they can't see the handwriting on the wall and just get our people the hell out of there, I just can't understand. Karzai is giving them all kinds of political cover to do so---"the democratically elected Afghani government is asking us to leave their nation" etc.

I don't get it. Pastor Jones is a complete moron, and I would love to send him to Kandahar or Jalalabad so he could repeat his stunt where it would "count." But his stupidity didn't make Afghanistan a better or worse place for our troops over the long term, and the long term is what US Senators should care about.

398 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:19:27am

re: #391 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, DEAR.

But they were both U.S. citizens, right? So that's all right, then.

Yes they were! lol

I read her book years ago and out of all the alien abductions reported, truly, theirs is the most interesting for a number of reasons. One of which, they really didn't want to believe it themselves.

399 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:19:32am

re: #393 zora

why do you think ayers is an old friend of obama?

HE LAUNCHED HIS CAMPAIGN FROM HIS LIVING ROOM!!!

////

400 Winny Spencer  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:20:44am

re: #399 SanFranciscoZionist

HE LAUNCHED HIS CAMPAIGN FROM HIS LIVING ROOM!!!

///

The same room in which Ayers wrote Dreams from my Father.

///

401 abolitionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:21:04am

re: #384 Obdicut

Er, Obama has already repudiated Farrakhan, and they've never been neighbors.[snip]

Can you provide a link in support of Obama having repudiated or rejected support from Mr F, please?

402 treasured people  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:21:51am

Start-Up Nation, an international best seller, answers the question of how Israel, a tiny country, all but bereft of natural resources and in the midst of a constant struggle for physical survival, has nonetheless managed to outstrip every other nation on Earth in terms of hi-tech innovation.

It has been widely reported, to give one telling example, that Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords’s life was saved after she was shot in Arizona in January because the emergency medical team applied a revolutionary elasticized bandage, developed in Israel, that creates pressure to quickly staunch head wounds.

Israel has the largest number of start-ups per year outside the US of any country. Not per capita. The largest number. Period. We have about 500 a year, and all of Europe has 600-700. Our 7.5 million people compared to that whole continent’s 700 million people.

There’s a misconception that the military plays a central role in Israeli start-ups through various IDF hi-tech units and through military R&D. In fact, the main military influence is cultural. So many Israelis go through the IDF, they learn leadership skills, they learn about teamwork, improvisation, sacrifice for a larger goal – these are things you don’t learn in school or in business. It’s a kind of third stage in life.

When people abroad characterize what’s unique about Israeli innovation, you hear the same two terms over and over: maturity and sense of purpose. And both of those come from the military experience. Sense of purpose comes, too, from the fact that Israel itself is a start-up. We all grew up on the story of the country – the determination and risk involved in building it. Every generation is maintaining that determination and readiness to take risk to further build the country in its own way.

Most everyone here is either an immigrant, the child of immigrants or the grandchild of immigrants. That, by its very nature, took determination; it reflects a willingness to take risk.

There’s just been a study in the US which showed that half the companies in Silicon Valley were started by immigrants.

This is the most pro-immigrant country on Earth. Here we have politicians campaigning for more immigrants. We have an Absorption Ministry! Sure, we complain about how it works. But other countries are coming here to learn from us about how we absorb immigrants.

We’ve turned a potential problem into an asset.

(taken from The Jerusalem Post)

403 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:22:13am

re: #399 SanFranciscoZionist

HE LAUNCHED HIS CAMPAIGN FROM HIS LIVING ROOM!!!

///

He also wrote Obama's biography for him, I thought everyone knew that...

///

404 shiplord kirel  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:22:14am

re: #388 marjoriemoon

Ok, this is bizarre, but something I was thinking of recently watching a UFO program.

I mention this, as wacky as it sounds, because they also took semen from him. I'll let you draw the conclusion :)

The Hills' alleged encounter allegedly took place on September 19,1961, just one month after the alleged birth of Barack Hussein Obama, allegedly in Hawaii though there is no universally record of little of Barack until quite a bit later than that.
Coincidence? I report, you decide.

405 allegro  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:22:47am

re: #392 blueraven

Karzai is the one who added the fuel to this flame. Asshole.

I do think things are different in wartime...when someone knowingly does something that could endanger our troops, where do we draw the line?

That's a real good question. Terry Jones is not existing in a vacuum nor are his actions. Would he have even thought of burning the Koran if not for the hateful environment that has existed and accelerated during the past couple of years? Holding him to account - whatever that means and with whatever consequences - means holding a whole long list of others to account.

There are whole bunches of folks fanning the flames both here in this country as well as the ME and doing so for their own personal agendas and gains.

406 blueraven  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:23:09am

re: #400 Winny Spencer

The same room in which Ayers wrote Dreams from my Father.

///

In the great time warp of 1995!

407 dcmc  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:23:54am

And this is different like commenters named "Muck the Fuslims" on a previous incarnation of LGF? Who told me to go to hell because I opposed all the reveling in shooting dead insurgents in the head to make sure they were dead? (Which is probably necessary, by the way, just not a thing to be super-proud of and happy about).

Of course, Charles repeatedly made clear that the views of commenters don't reflect his own views, and shouldn't be used against him. Which is totally true. But shouldn't that principle be applied across the board?

408 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:24:22am

re: #366 harald

Sometimes I catch myself thinking "let's just put all the extremists on an island and let them wipe each other out". But then I realize, by thinking that, I just put myself on that island.

We are on an island. It's called Earth.

409 dcmc  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:24:39am

I should day "different from commenters"

410 Girth  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:24:42am

re: #406 blueraven

In the great time warp of 1995!

Where's that wormhole again? I wouldn't mind going back there and giving myself a little advice.

411 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:24:49am

re: #393 zora

why do you think ayers is an old friend of obama?

I believe they have both said as much. Ayers's wife and Michelle worked together at a law firm way back when, and there are photos of the couples together, and Obama and Ayers appeared at several academic symposiums together, at least one of which was planned/co-ordinated by Michelle. Ayers speaks beautifully and has a pleasant demeanor, and comes off as a really nice guy--very disarming. The links are real and established between them, and have nothing to do with Jerome Corsi's crazy accusations about Obama's book.

I'm pretty sure the relationship isn't what it was in the past, however.

Feel free to find all the (non-loony) links for yourself. I don't want to spend 2 hours of my day doing so.

412 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:25:30am

re: #401 abolitionist

Can you provide a link in support of Obama having repudiated or rejected support from Mr F, please?

Seriously?

Sure.

[Link: www.politico.com...]

I decry racism and anti-Semitism in every form and strongly condemn the anti-Semitic statements made by Minister Farrakhan.

413 prairiefire  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:26:04am

re: #407 dcmc

Hello.

414 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:26:12am

re: #407 dcmc

That was then, this is now.

It's not just a great S.E. Hinton book.

415 zora  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:26:13am

re: #410 Girth

Where's that wormhole again? I wouldn't mind going back there and giving myself a little advice.

or at least a winning lottery number.

416 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:26:33am

re: #371 funky chicken

Sadly, I'm not sure America is willing to "know" yet. I think the tide is turning, but too many still think we have to stay there longer.

Thinking of George Carlin now.

A lot of people forget the sexual side of Vietnam. "Pull out? Doesn't sound manly to us!" Which is of course what we're doing to those people.

417 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:26:39am

re: #411 funky chicken

I believe they have both said as much.

Well, you're wrong.

418 prairiefire  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:26:56am

re: #411 funky chicken

I believe they have both said as much. Ayers's wife and Michelle worked together at a law firm way back when, and there are photos of the couples together, and Obama and Ayers appeared at several academic symposiums together, at least one of which was planned/co-ordinated by Michelle. Ayers speaks beautifully and has a pleasant demeanor, and comes off as a really nice guy--very disarming. The links are real and established between them, and have nothing to do with Jerome Corsi's crazy accusations about Obama's book.

I'm pretty sure the relationship isn't what it was in the past, however.

Feel free to find all the (non-loony) links for yourself. I don't want to spend 2 hours of my day doing so.

Perhaps because they don't exist?

419 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:27:26am

re: #402 treasured people

You really should start making pages out of your posts so they don't just get ignored.

420 justaminute  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:27:31am

Afghanistan is having their "Days of Rage." Maybe 10 years of war and occupation have put the Afghan people past their point of toleration? Jones burns the Koran. A Imam gets on a loud speaker and says in America they are burning hundreds of Korans and the Taliban takes it from there.

I got over the idea we were in Afghanistan to continue the hunt for Bin Laden and AQ, didn't you? Pakistan with nuclear bombs and Iran on the hunt makes more sense. I think it is hard for the military and a President to pick up and leave and in a year or two the hardliners possibly having control of a nuclear arsenal. Who wants to be President? Not I.

421 treasured people  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:28:59am

re: #419 Obdicut

How do I do that?

422 abolitionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:28:59am

re: #412 Obdicut

Thank you. That was quite a contrast to his interview with Stephanopolis (sp?)

423 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:29:27am

re: #412 Obdicut

Seriously?

Sure.

[Link: www.politico.com...]

And now the feeling appears to be entirely mutual. Farrakhan is in a snit about Libya.

WHY DO I KEEP TRYING TO TYPE LIBRYA EVERY TIME?

424 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:29:32am

re: #421 treasured people

How do I do that?

I've explained it to you already. Here it is again:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Create a page is over on the right.

425 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:29:52am

re: #423 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, Farrakhan has been hating on Obama for quite awhile now.

426 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:30:06am

re: #419 Obdicut

You really should start making pages out of your posts so they don't just get ignored.

I was gonna say. You have excellent stuff, but people will read it more closely and appreciatively if it's in the pages.

427 zora  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:30:25am

re: #411 funky chicken

it appears that obama and ayers were on some type of education panel together. they were not friends and obama was six when ayers was a bomber. that was enough to be turned into "palling around with terrorists". it's bullshit. no mattter how much of a silver tongue you think ayers has. i never met the guy but have not been impressed with a word i've heard him (ayers) speak.

428 SpaceJesus  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:30:40am

conservatives are fascists, news at 11

429 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:30:50am

re: #420 justaminute

Afghanistan is having their "Days of Rage." Maybe 10 years of war and occupation have put the Afghan people past their point of toleration? Jones burns the Koran. A Imam gets on a loud speaker and says in America they are burning hundreds of Korans and the Taliban takes it from there.

Afghanistan has done way more than a mere ten years of war and occupation, and it's clearly taken its toll on the culture.

430 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:30:52am

re: #404 shiplord kirel

The Hills' alleged encounter allegedly took place on September 19,1961, just one month after the alleged birth of Barack Hussein Obama, allegedly in Hawaii though there is no universally record of little of Barack until quite a bit later than that.
Coincidence? I report, you decide.

rofl! You have seen the Super Obama, JibJab video haven't you?
Hmmm....

Youtube Video
431 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:31:41am

re: #407 dcmc

And this is different like commenters named "Muck the Fuslims" on a previous incarnation of LGF? Who told me to go to hell because I opposed all the reveling in shooting dead insurgents in the head to make sure they were dead? (Which is probably necessary, by the way, just not a thing to be super-proud of and happy about).

Of course, Charles repeatedly made clear that the views of commenters don't reflect his own views, and shouldn't be used against him. Which is totally true. But shouldn't that principle be applied across the board?

We've evolved, what can I tell ya.

432 Girth  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:31:41am

re: #415 zora

or at least a winning lottery number.

Start with the lottery, then go to stocks.

433 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:31:46am

re: #421 treasured people

How do I do that?

If you click on "LGF Pages" it will take you to a page where there is a button that says, "Create A Page".

If this doesn't make sense when you try it, come back and we'll walk you through.

434 M. Dubious  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:32:28am

re: #428 SpaceJesus

conservatives are fascists, news at 11

Link?

435 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:33:13am

re: #427 zora

it appears that obama and ayers were on some type of education panel together. they were not friends and obama was six when ayers was a bomber. that was enough to be turned into "palling around with terrorists". it's bullshit. no mattter how much of a silver tongue you think ayers has. i never met the guy but have not been impressed with a word i've heard him (ayers) speak.

I think you had to be there. All of these aging radicals from the sixties and seventies just sound like childish, self-important whiners to me.

436 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:33:49am

re: #431 marjoriemoon

We've evolved, what can I tell ya.

And btw, plenty of us were not of the Muck the Fuslim mindset. I surely wasn't.

437 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:34:52am

re: #436 marjoriemoon

And btw, plenty of us were not of the Muck the Fuslim mindset. I surely wasn't.

But God knows, they got irritable if you called them on it.

438 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:35:25am

re: #423 SanFranciscoZionist

And now the feeling appears to be entirely mutual. Farrakhan is in a snit about Libya.

WHY DO I KEEP TRYING TO TYPE LIBRYA EVERY TIME?

Well, Mad Mo was a pretty good funding source for the guy. Obama's gone and messed that up for him.

439 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:35:39am

re: #432 Girth

Start with the lottery, then go to stocks.

Go short in 2007.

440 M. Dubious  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:36:03am

re: #436 marjoriemoon

And btw, plenty of us were not of the Muck the Fuslim mindset. I surely wasn't.

I was. For about 9 months after 9-11.

441 SpaceJesus  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:36:21am

re: #434 harald

"All these muslims are a bunch of inbred, degenerates who have never progressed over the last 5000 years."


from "patrioticmarine" at foxnews, 2 minutes ago

just the first one i could find.

442 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:38:08am

re: #438 funky chicken

Well, Mad Mo was a pretty good funding source for the guy. Obama's gone and messed that up for him.

Was he? (Wouldn't be surprised.) Can you give me some clean links on that? All my searches are turning up heavy breathing from the usual suspects.

443 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:38:18am

re: #440 harald

I was. For about 9 months after 9-11.

You got bettah.

444 dcmc  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:40:15am

re: 413

Hello!

re: 414, 431

The point is either comments reflect badly on the blogger or they don't. It's seriously disingenuous to use a principle to condemn someone and then say the exact same principle doesn't apply you, when it can be used against you.

Look, frankly I've followed pretty much the same journey away from the right as Charles, but in some cases he has really not consistent - or shoehorns his own actions into a framework that looks good, but condemns almost exactly the same actions on the part of others, like when he was caught editing an old post.

But I still more or less agree with him, so no point in getting hot an bothered.

445 M. Dubious  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:40:22am

re: #441 SpaceJesus

"All these muslims are a bunch of inbred, degenerates who have never progressed over the last 5000 years."

from "patrioticmarine" at foxnews, 2 minutes ago

just the first one i could find.

There were Muslims 5000 years ago? I want my university tuition back.

446 Girth  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:41:07am

re: #439 Romantic Heretic

Go short in 2007.

God could you imagine starting in 1995 with a big lottery jackpot in the 50 million dollar range, riding the tech bubble and jumping ship at the right time and then selling short in 2007?

447 M. Dubious  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:41:22am

re: #443 SanFranciscoZionist

You got bettah.

Depends on who you ask.

448 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:42:06am

re: #407 dcmc

And this is different like commenters named "Muck the Fuslims" on a previous incarnation of LGF? Who told me to go to hell because I opposed all the reveling in shooting dead insurgents in the head to make sure they were dead? (Which is probably necessary, by the way, just not a thing to be super-proud of and happy about).

Of course, Charles repeatedly made clear that the views of commenters don't reflect his own views, and shouldn't be used against him. Which is totally true. But shouldn't that principle be applied across the board?

It's different because I threw those people out.

449 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:44:10am

re: #444 dcmc

re: 413

Hello!

re: 414, 431

The point is either comments reflect badly on the blogger or they don't. It's seriously disingenuous to use a principle to condemn someone and then say the exact same principle doesn't apply you, when it can be used against you.

Look, frankly I've followed pretty much the same journey away from the right as Charles, but in some cases he has really not consistent - or shoehorns his own actions into a framework that looks good, but condemns almost exactly the same actions on the part of others, like when he was caught editing an old post.

But I still more or less agree with him, so no point in getting hot an bothered.

Excuse me? "Caught" editing an old post? So your source for these comments is a stalker blog?

450 justaminute  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:44:25am

re: #429 SanFranciscoZionist

Afghanistan has done way more than a mere ten years of war and occupation, and it's clearly taken its toll on the culture.

Yes, but the American public hasn't seemed to be considering that. They easily moved from WMD in Iraq to saving the Iraqis from Saddam. Leave Afghanistan and something happens in Pakistan they will be new meme established again. Blame always has to be established.

451 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:45:19am

re: #444 dcmc

re: 413

Hello!

re: 414, 431

The point is either comments reflect badly on the blogger or they don't. It's seriously disingenuous to use a principle to condemn someone and then say the exact same principle doesn't apply you, when it can be used against you.

Look, frankly I've followed pretty much the same journey away from the right as Charles, but in some cases he has really not consistent - or shoehorns his own actions into a framework that looks good, but condemns almost exactly the same actions on the part of others, like when he was caught editing an old post.

But I still more or less agree with him, so no point in getting hot an bothered.

And for that matter, how about if you tell me your real name, so I can hunt obsessively through your background and make sure you've always been totally consistent and never done anything slightly questionable?

452 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:45:34am

OT
Mt Wilson looks beautiful.Clouds are drifting through the place. I'm loading up the truck, and going up to shoot that scene for myself-If the road is open anyway... See ya all later!

453 shiplord kirel  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:47:23am

re: #420 justaminute

Afghanistan is having their "Days of Rage." Maybe 10 years of war and occupation have put the Afghan people past their point of toleration? Jones burns the Koran. A Imam gets on a loud speaker and says in America they are burning hundreds of Korans and the Taliban takes it from there.

I got over the idea we were in Afghanistan to continue the hunt for Bin Laden and AQ, didn't you? Pakistan with nuclear bombs and Iran on the hunt makes more sense. I think it is hard for the military and a President to pick up and leave and in a year or two the hardliners possibly having control of a nuclear arsenal. Who wants to be President? Not I.

What point of toleration is that? Are you under the impression that Afghanistan was a land of peace and sweet reason, the Sweden of Central Asia, before our troops arrived? The Soviet occupation really began with a similar but much worse riot in Herat in March 1979. Troops of the Afghan communist government mutinied and stood aside as mobs massacred Soviet advisors, aid workers, and their families.
The response was awesome, Soviet and Afghan air strikes and other forces killed almost 25,000 people in Herat during the following week. Soviet forces didn't enter Afghanistan en masse until December, but Herat was really their first direct intervention in the fighting.

454 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:47:26am

Is the NY Times reputable enough?

Twenty-six years later, at a lunchtime meeting about school reform in a Chicago skyscraper, Barack Obama met Mr. Ayers, by then an education professor. Their paths have crossed sporadically since then, at a coffee Mr. Ayers hosted for Mr. Obama’s first run for office, on the schools project and a charitable board, and in casual encounters as Hyde Park neighbors.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

The coffee in the Ayers home happened, as did the other things.

They were friendly acquaintances and occasional colleagues, and none of it would have mattered if Ayers hadn't written his stupid book in 2001. The guy is a very charming sociopath, IMHO, and has become a respected figure among many who are active on the social and academic left/moderate left in Chicago.

The knee-jerk squeals of "they were never friends!!!" are silly.

455 SpaceJesus  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:47:37am

looks like the stalkers are back at work on the lgf wikipedia page too fyi

456 abolitionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:49:10am

re: #442 SanFranciscoZionist

Was he? (Wouldn't be surprised.) Can you give me some clean links on that? All my searches are turning up heavy breathing from the usual suspects.

Louis Farrakhan defends “brother” Gaddafi; blasts U.S. action in Libya

March 31, 2011 5:51 PM EDT

Minister Louis Farrakhan, the leader of Nation of Islam (NOI) in the U.S., has defended his "brother” Moammar Gaddafi and blasted U.S. military action in Libya.

Farrakhan held a press conference at the Mosque Maryam, the international headquarters of the Nation of Islam in Chicago, which was purchased in 1972 with the help of a $3 million loan from Gaddafi himself, according to the Chicago Tribune.

457 blueraven  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:50:13am

re: #454 funky chicken

paths have crossed sporadically = BFF

Fail!

458 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:52:02am

re: #454 funky chicken

Is the NY Times reputable enough?

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

The coffee in the Ayers home happened, as did the other things.

They were friendly acquaintances and occasional colleagues, and none of it would have mattered if Ayers hadn't written his stupid book in 2001. The guy is a very charming sociopath, IMHO, and has become a respected figure among many who are active on the social and academic left/moderate left in Chicago.

The knee-jerk squeals of "they were never friends!!!" are silly.

OK, so you've established that they had contact, and that Ayers offered his home for a campaign event. This was never in doubt.

Now, getting back to my initial question--are you under the impression that Barack Obama has grown in office to the point that he would no longer accept Ayers' justifications for the planned Fort Dix attack, whereas he would have before taking office? Seriously. You appeared to say that the President was not only a casual acquaintance of Ayers, but a believer in the righteousness of the Weathermen.

459 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:52:39am

re: #455 SpaceJesus

looks like the stalkers are back at work on the lgf wikipedia page too fyi

It's that same obsessed weirdo again, putting back the badly-sourced edits that he was told he could not make, several times before. If you would leave a note for the admins, I'd appreciate it. I can't do it myself.

460 shiplord kirel  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:53:33am

Acchh! Gotta' run. My mom is in a panic because her vacuum cleaner has stopped working. My vac skills are limited but I have to see what I can do.

461 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:53:34am

re: #444 dcmc

How many accounts have you registered at LGF, by the way?

462 SpaceJesus  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:54:19am

re: #459 Charles

sure, the last admin and i were on the level about it all. ill write him after im done with this paper.

463 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:54:28am

re: #442 SanFranciscoZionist

Was he? (Wouldn't be surprised.) Can you give me some clean links on that? All my searches are turning up heavy breathing from the usual suspects.

Many years ago Louie went to Libya and got a million bucks for it. Of course I remember Lionel Ritchie performed for him many moons ago for a nice payout as well. I'm not a fan of "easy listening" music, but I saw Ritchie live once, and he's an amazingly talented performer.

Oh, LOLZ it was supposed to be a billion bucks.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Here's another one. again LOLZ
Farrakhan, in Libya, To Get Rights Award
Published: August 30, 1996

Louis Farrakhan, leader of the Nation of Islam, attended the opening today of a human rights conference where he is to get a $250,000 prize.

American law forbids him from accepting the money. But the official news agency said Mr. Farrakhan would accept the prize, the Qaddafi Human Rights Award. The United States considers the Libyan leader, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, a sponsor of terrorism.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

I guess he was el-Qaddafi back then.

464 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:55:09am

re: #456 abolitionist

Louis Farrakhan defends “brother” Gaddafi; blasts U.S. action in Libya

Thanks. Interesting.

I note, also, that Farrakhan now refers to Obama as 'the first Jewish president'. I called it first!!!

465 researchok  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:57:09am

re: #464 SanFranciscoZionist

Thanks. Interesting.

I note, also, that Farrakhan now refers to Obama as 'the first Jewish president'. I called it first!!!

I suspect Farrakhan is upset because the checks have stopped coming.

Seriously.

466 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:57:23am

re: #463 funky chicken

Many years ago Louie went to Libya and got a million bucks for it. Of course I remember Lionel Ritchie performed for him many moons ago for a nice payout as well. I'm not a fan of "easy listening" music, but I saw Ritchie live once, and he's an amazingly talented performer.

Oh, LOLZ it was supposed to be a billion bucks.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Here's another one. again LOLZ
Farrakhan, in Libya, To Get Rights Award
Published: August 30, 1996

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

I guess he was el-Qaddafi back then.

Quite a number of celebrities have performed for Gaddafi's family over the years.

Jon Stewart had a little riff on himself doing borscht belt stand-up in front of a tent of bored and cranky Libyans.

467 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:57:51am

re: #462 SpaceJesus

sure, the last admin and i were on the level about it all. ill write him after im done with this paper.

Thanks. That guy should be blocked from making edits -- he's demonstrated many times over that he's not on the level, and now he's sneaking back in to make edits he was told he could not make.

468 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:58:10am

re: #465 researchok

I suspect Farrakhan is upset because the checks have stopped coming.

Seriously.

It always sucks when the President calls in a no-fly zone on a contributor.

469 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:58:46am

re: #393 zora

why do you think ayers is an old friend of obama?

They ate dinner together once along with a dozen other co-workers, and worked at the same school. Therefore, Obama and Ayers are practically twins.

470 SidewaysQuark  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:00:20am

re: #373 Rightwingconspirator


Of course we can not "give" them a government. We can only help them try. Or not? Leave them to their fate under the Taliban. By that measure, we had no reason to act in Libya either. Just leave them to their deaths. Rwanda, Cambodia, Sudan. Ivory Coast. Never mind just read about the carnage and move along. Not Our problem. It's too hard. Just send food & the UN to the huge squalid inevitable refugee camps.

I don't understand - are you advocating that should have invaded Afghanistan, Libya, Rwanda, Cambodia, Sudan AND Ivory Coast with our ground troops to 'save' them from the carnage?

471 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:00:40am

re: #469 Fozzie Bear

They ate dinner together once along with a dozen other co-workers, and worked at the same school. Therefore, Obama and Ayers are practically twins.

Offering the house for an event might hint at something closer--or simply at Ayers' obvious desire to be relevant.

472 SidewaysQuark  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:00:54am

edit: ...thate WE should...

473 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:01:09am

re: #454 funky chicken

Is the NY Times reputable enough?

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

The coffee in the Ayers home happened, as did the other things.

They were friendly acquaintances and occasional colleagues, and none of it would have mattered if Ayers hadn't written his stupid book in 2001. The guy is a very charming sociopath, IMHO, and has become a respected figure among many who are active on the social and academic left/moderate left in Chicago.

The knee-jerk squeals of "they were never friends!!!" are silly.

How does that make them "friends". If I find a crazy guy you once worked with and maybe had coffee with once, does that make you his friend? Does that mean you agree with this hypothetical crazy person's beliefs?

474 researchok  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:01:14am

re: #469 Fozzie Bear

They ate dinner together once along with a dozen other co-workers, and worked at the same school. Therefore, Obama and Ayers are practically twins.

Obama is too smart to keep Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn close.

475 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:02:33am

Oddly, I think that Obama is the best thing that's happened to Ayers in a long, long time. He's now the boogieman again, and that means speaking engagements, and people wanting to read his dreary books about education.

476 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:02:49am

re: #458 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, so you've established that they had contact, and that Ayers offered his home for a campaign event. This was never in doubt.

Now, getting back to my initial question--are you under the impression that Barack Obama has grown in office to the point that he would no longer accept Ayers' justifications for the planned Fort Dix attack, whereas he would have before taking office? Seriously. You appeared to say that the President was not only a casual acquaintance of Ayers, but a believer in the righteousness of the Weathermen.

My conjecture is that over the years Obama never thought much or probably asked/cared about the Weathermen stuff at all. Ayers was a neighbor, colleague, and friendly acquaintance. The couple socialized occasionally and attended events that (I'm guessing here) the Obamas may wish they hadn't attended. Now that Obama is CIC, I'd guess he has a less-rosy, perhaps even quite negative, view of Ayers and the Weathermen.

I never said they were BFF or anything like that...but there was a relationship, and the knee-jerk screaming when it's mentioned, especiallly in the context of my musing that Obama is probably kinda displeased with some of his old Chicago cohort, is silly.

Who hasn't had a weird friend they've cringed over? Are you all saying you never have, and that Obama never could have either?

Bill Ayers is still liked and respected by folks in Chicago, and within the educational community. All I said was that I doubt he is still liked and respected by President Obama.

And the Obamas had a civil/cordial relationship with Farrakhan in the past as well. That is apparently no longer the case. That's not a criticism, by the way.

477 justaminute  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:03:34am

re: #453 shiplord kirel

What point of toleration is that? Are you under the impression that Afghanistan was a land of peace and sweet reason, the Sweden of Central Asia, before our troops arrived? The Soviet occupation really began with a similar but much worse riot in Herat in March 1979. Troops of the Afghan communist government mutinied and stood aside as mobs massacred Soviet advisors, aid workers, and their families.
The response was awesome, Soviet and Afghan air strikes and other forces killed almost 25,000 people in Herat during the following week. Soviet forces didn't enter Afghanistan en masse until December, but Herat was really their first direct intervention in the fighting.

Yes, we know that. But the American public doesn't seem to want to consider that in their Muslim bashing. The public has a hard time putting their selves in the place of average Afghans. They left any introspection that Iraq didn't have WMD pretty easily and established saving them from Saddam instead. They also love conspiracy theories, if they didn't we wouldn't have birthers. They seem to always want simple explanations. That gives us a Terry Jones and away we go.

478 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:03:35am

re: #440 harald

I was. For about 9 months after 9-11.

Many people were. That came out of fear and ignorance, but at least this blog got past it.

For all the hoopla, this blog which dealt mostly with the Israeli conflict at the time was chock full of accurate historical information. It was here I learned of the Islamic/Nazi connection (off the top of my head) and many other relationships I wasn't aware even though it was part of my culture.

To newcomers here, it can look like the old LGF was just a Muslim hating blog and it wasn't. Charles was a pioneer in an unknown field and tried to give everyone a voice, even the haters until that proved miserable for him. He could have stayed that way. Certainly plenty of rightwing blogs have stayed that way, but it wasn't him. It was never him.

479 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:05:47am

I had dinner with the convicted murderer of three people about a week ago. We met in the prison to discuss his upcoming appeal, and I brought him a sandwich. If I hadn't already known he was a killer, I would never have known, or even suspected it. Food for thought.

480 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:06:47am

And now I'm outta here. Sheesh, kinda prickly today. Ayers hosted a coffee in his home. That is different from "having coffee" together.

481 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:07:30am

re: #476 funky chicken

I think that's a fair assessment. What the lefties don't seem to understand is that Ayers is a problem and could have cost them the election. Just by keeping him around and even tolerating him is a liability.

482 blueraven  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:09:02am

re: #476 funky chicken

My conjecture is that over the years Obama never thought much or probably asked/cared about the Weathermen stuff at all. Ayers was a neighbor, colleague, and friendly acquaintance. The couple socialized occasionally and attended events that (I'm guessing here) the Obamas may wish they hadn't attended. Now that Obama is CIC, I'd guess he has a less-rosy, perhaps even quite negative, view of Ayers and the Weathermen.

I never said they were BFF or anything like that...but there was a relationship, and the knee-jerk screaming when it's mentioned, especiallly in the context of my musing that Obama is probably kinda displeased with some of his old Chicago cohort, is silly.

Who hasn't had a weird friend they've cringed over? Are you all saying you never have, and that Obama never could have either?

Bill Ayers is still liked and respected by folks in Chicago, and within the educational community. All I said was that I doubt he is still liked and respected by President Obama.

And the Obamas had a civil/cordial relationship with Farrakhan in the past as well. That is apparently no longer the case. That's not a criticism, by the way.

You dont know if they were "friendly" acquaintances or not. They were acquaintances. Probably civil, and most likely agreed on some policy issues.
Politics has always made for strange bedfellows.

Stop trying to make more of it than it is.

483 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:09:14am

re: #481 Killgore Trout

I think that's a fair assessment. What the lefties don't seem to understand is that Ayers is a problem and could have cost them the election. Just by keeping him around and even tolerating him is a liability.

I think "the lefties" just understand how irrelevant it is, and see repeated attempts to bring up the subject as just what they are: petty.

484 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:11:57am

re: #455 SpaceJesus

looks like the stalkers are back at work on the lgf wikipedia page too fyi

Ugh. I've got to get my changes committed. I totally forgot about that. My bad.

485 researchok  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:13:15am

re: #475 SanFranciscoZionist

Oddly, I think that Obama is the best thing that's happened to Ayers in a long, long time. He's now the boogieman again, and that means speaking engagements, and people wanting to read his dreary books about education.

True.

I really do believe Obama kept Ayers at arms length if fo rno other reason there is absolutely no upside in aligning himself with Ayers and Dorhn.

It because of what Ayers and and Dohrn say or believe- whack jobs are a part of our political landscape- but rather because of what Ayers and Dohrn have done and claim to be proud of and are openly non repentant for the violence they have espoused and perpetrated.

Lastly, Obama is a father. He would not welcome Ayers and Dorhn into his world with a close relationship. No way.

486 researchok  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:14:24am

re: #485 researchok

PIMF

It isn't because of what Ayers

487 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:14:48am

re: #476 funky chicken

I'm glad that you're walking back your earlier statement that they were friends, but you could be a bit more honest about it.


I never said they were BFF or anything like that...but there was a relationship, and the knee-jerk screaming

Who was screaming, please?

488 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:15:15am

Here's what pisses me off about the whole Ayers thing:

Obama once worked with a guy who was a radical anti-government extremist decades ago, and had coffee at his house, once. HUGE ISSUE

McCain chooses as his running mate a woman who is closely associated with a radical extremist secessionist group, has served as their keynote speaker, and whose husband was a major player in the party. NOT A PROBLEM

489 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:16:15am

re: #483 Fozzie Bear

I think "the lefties" just understand how irrelevant it is, and see repeated attempts to bring up the subject as just what they are: petty.

And it's brought up again, and again, and again. If that's all they've got and all that.

490 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:16:15am

re: #483 Fozzie Bear

I think "the lefties" just understand how irrelevant it is, and see repeated attempts to bring up the subject as just what they are: petty.

Wingnuts try to convince themselves that Ron Paul, The Birch Society, Pat Buchanan, White Nationalists, Eurofascists and Alex Jones are irrelevant too. They are extremists and associating with them is a political liability. Just imagine how much more effective the anti-war movement would have been in the Bush years if it had been a reasonable movement without Code Pink, ANSWER, 9-11 truthers and George Galloway.

491 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:17:21am

re: #488 Fozzie Bear

And the first way that Ayers returned to political significance was in the Annenberg Challenge-- which was started by Will Annenberg, a staunch Republican. Obama saw him very occasionally, usually in mutual Chicago non-profit stuff.

492 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:17:57am

re: #490 Killgore Trout

Wingnuts try to convince themselves that Ron Paul, The Birch Society, Pat Buchanan, White Nationalists, Eurofascists and Alex Jones are irrelevant too. They are extremists and associating with them is a political liability. Just imagine how much more effective the anti-war movement would have been in the Bush years if it had been a reasonable movement without Code Pink, ANSWER, 9-11 truthers and George Galloway.

Explain to me how Ayers is anywhere near as influential with Democratic politics as any of the people or institutions you just listed are with the right, or how anyone of the left was anywhere near as closely affiliated.

493 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:18:13am

re: #481 Killgore Trout

I think that's a fair assessment. What the lefties don't seem to understand is that Ayers is a problem and could have cost them the election. Just by keeping him around and even tolerating him is a liability.

I don't know. It didn't. Neither did Reverend Wright. He won handily even if not a landslide.

I don't think the American people by this BS quite frankly. We want to know about the economy, healthcare, education, the things that matter as a nation and what the government should be providing. The Right had nothing then but hit pieces on him personally. And what's changed? Nothing.

Obama/Biden 2012 is a sure hit.

494 prairiefire  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:18:18am

re: #479 Fozzie Bear

I had dinner with the convicted murderer of three people about a week ago. We met in the prison to discuss his upcoming appeal, and I brought him a sandwich. If I hadn't already known he was a killer, I would never have known, or even suspected it. Food for thought.

You're a true representative of the people! He is still saying he didn't do it?

495 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:18:29am

re: #491 Obdicut

And the first way that Ayers returned to political significance was in the Annenberg Challenge-- which was started by Will Annenberg, a staunch Republican. Obama saw him very occasionally, usually in mutual Chicago non-profit stuff.

Will Annenberg = part of St. Reagan's "kitchen cabinet"

496 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:18:46am

re: #494 prairiefire

You're a true representative of the people! He is still saying he didn't do it?

It doesn't matter if he did it. It's my job, and my duty.

497 abolitionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:18:52am

re: #474 researchok
Obama is too smart to keep Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn close.

His campaign manager wasn't. Axelrod insisted that "they were friends" and that Obama's and Ayers' children attended the same school. I'd be willing to provide a link to the video, but it's gone down the memory hole. Water under the bridge. Pres. Obama has grown much in recent years.

498 prairiefire  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:19:32am

re: #496 Fozzie Bear

It doesn't matter if he did it. It's my job, and my duty.

Major props, dude. It's the backbone of our society.

499 blueraven  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:19:40am

re: #490 Killgore Trout

Wingnuts try to convince themselves that Ron Paul, The Birch Society, Pat Buchanan, White Nationalists, Eurofascists and Alex Jones are irrelevant too. They are extremists and associating with them is a political liability. Just imagine how much more effective the anti-war movement would have been in the Bush years if it had been a reasonable movement without Code Pink, ANSWER, 9-11 truthers and George Galloway.

These people/groups are relevant now.
Ayers was relevant in the 60s...now, not so much.

500 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:19:43am

re: #488 Fozzie Bear

Here's what pisses me off about the whole Ayers thing:

Obama once worked with a guy who was a radical anti-government extremist decades ago, and had coffee at his house, once. HUGE ISSUE

McCain chooses as his running mate a woman who is closely associated with a radical extremist secessionist group, has served as their keynote speaker, and whose husband was a major player in the party. NOT A PROBLEM

hehe but it was a problem. A huge problem. Conservative moderates were flipping out about it. Quietly flipping. But yea, I get yer point.

501 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:19:48am

One last remark on the irritating comments by 'dcmc': the fact is that genocidal comments like you see in the post above were never tolerated at LGF. And I mean NEVER. I banned anyone who did it, as soon as I became aware of their comments.

Yes, there were way too many extreme commenters at LGF. It wasn't a simple job to clean them out, and I took an enormous amount of shit for doing it, from all sides. A lot of those banned assholes are now posting at stalker blogs, dedicating large amounts of time to keeping this smear going -- even though THEY were the ones responsible for it in the first place.

But to insinuate that a comment like "the Muslim rats need to be exterminated" would ever have been allowed here is extremely disingenuous.

502 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:20:03am

re: #497 abolitionist

Obama is too smart to keep Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn close.

His campaign manager wasn't. Axelrod insisted that "they were friends" and that Obama's and Ayers' children attended the same school. I'd be willing to provide a link to the video, but it's gone down the memory hole. Water under the bridge. Pres. Obama has grown much in recent years.

I love it how typists on a blog can say that President Obama has GROWN.

wtf

503 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:21:08am

re: #490 Killgore Trout

That's true enough; a lot of the hysteria in the anti-war movement was a big turnoff to people.

However, most Democratic leaders and elected officials did not endorse, befriend, or defend those radical groups. Certainly nowhere to the extent that the GOP defends-- and elects-- the insanity these days. Only Kucinich and a couple others on the left ever went anywhere near that, and not very far.

It is still a good point that the anti-war movement could have done a lot more to sanitize its membership and not include people who were fervent anti-zionists or otherwise prosecuting their own agenda.

504 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:22:19am

re: #503 Obdicut

Somebody needs to appoint Kusinich ambassador to Pluto or something. The man is a disgrace.

505 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:22:51am

re: #488 Fozzie Bear

I actually am friends with a guy who, when 19, murdered two people. He served his time for it. He's very different from who he was then. Kind of Morgan Freedman at the end of Shawshank Redemption.

506 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:23:06am

re: #499 blueraven

These people/groups are relevant now.
Ayers was relevant in the 60s...now, not so much.

Not so much but he's still around, involved in Chicago politics and a regular speaker at universities and events. Looks like he has a pretty full schedule.

507 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:23:16am

re: #481 Killgore Trout

I think that's a fair assessment. What the lefties don't seem to understand is that Ayers is a problem and could have cost them the election. Just by keeping him around and even tolerating him is a liability.

At this point, I don't think it's the 'lefties' who are keeping him around.

508 prairiefire  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:23:35am

re: #505 Obdicut

I actually am friends with a guy who, when 19, murdered two people. He served his time for it. He's very different from who he was then. Kind of Morgan Freedman at the end of Shawshank Redemption.

Life is a long, rocky road.

509 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:23:37am

re: #504 Fozzie Bear

I used to defend him as not nearly as kooky as people thought. But, even though he's okay on most domestic stuff, his foreign policy is a fruitbasket with full of dumb-dumb berries.

510 Targetpractice  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:23:58am

re: #504 Fozzie Bear

Somebody needs to appoint Kusinich ambassador to Pluto or something. The man is a disgrace.

I know it sounds weird, but I have a certain respect for Kucinich, namely for his staying (relatively) consistent in his views. The man's a fruitloop, but he tends to avoid being a hypocrite.

511 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:24:30am

re: #490 Killgore Trout

Wingnuts try to convince themselves that Ron Paul, The Birch Society, Pat Buchanan, White Nationalists, Eurofascists and Alex Jones are irrelevant too. They are extremists and associating with them is a political liability. Just imagine how much more effective the anti-war movement would have been in the Bush years if it had been a reasonable movement without Code Pink, ANSWER, 9-11 truthers and George Galloway.

Ayers isn't part of Obama's movement, though. He's just this guy.

512 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:25:02am

re: #505 Obdicut

I actually am friends with a guy who, when 19, murdered two people. He served his time for it. He's very different from who he was then. Kind of Morgan Freedman at the end of Shawshank Redemption.

It's a hard moment in my job when it dawns on you that it often isn't overall character that separates murderers from the rest of us. It's often just one bad snap decision. One moment of blinding anger. That's all it takes. It's a very sobering thing to realize that the guy across the table from you isn't really significantly different from yourself.

513 abolitionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:25:12am

re: #502 Stanley Sea

I love it how typists on a blog can say that President Obama has GROWN.

wtf

From 2004, when he said he wasn't qualified to be president, yes.

514 prairiefire  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:25:15am

re: #506 Killgore Trout

Not so much but he's still around, involved in Chicago politics and a regular speaker at universities and events. Looks like he has a pretty full schedule.

Ayers dad is old school power and money in Chicago. His influence had a lot to do with his son's mainstreaming rehabilitation into polite academic society. I think I would cross the street to avoid him, personally.

515 Girth  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:25:49am

re: #511 SanFranciscoZionist

Ayers isn't part of Obama's movement, though. He's just this guy.

But...but...COFFEE!

516 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:26:19am

re: #501 Charles

One last remark on the irritating comments by 'dcmc': the fact is that genocidal comments like you see in the post above were never tolerated at LGF. And I mean NEVER. I banned anyone who did it, as soon as I became aware of their comments.

Yes, there were way too many extreme commenters at LGF. It wasn't a simple job to clean them out, and I took an enormous amount of shit for doing it, from all sides. A lot of those banned assholes are now posting at stalker blogs, dedicating large amounts of time to keeping this smear going -- even though THEY were the ones responsible for it in the first place.

But to insinuate that a comment like "the Muslim rats need to be exterminated" would ever have been allowed here is extremely disingenuous.

Absolutely true and I would add anything like that about any group of people was never tolerated. In fact, there was a huge ban in 2004? About 35 people overnight. I don't remember the argument, but it was nasty and childish. And they haven't changed one iota.

517 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:26:52am

re: #504 Fozzie Bear

Somebody needs to appoint Kusinich ambassador to Pluto or something. The man is a disgrace.

He's always been a nut, but there it is. He and Ron Paul seem to be agreeing on some stuff these days--maybe they can form the Gnome-Like Nutjob Caucus, and have lunches.

518 researchok  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:27:56am

re: #497 abolitionist

Obama is too smart to keep Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn close.

His campaign manager wasn't. Axelrod insisted that "they were friends" and that Obama's and Ayers' children attended the same school. I'd be willing to provide a link to the video, but it's gone down the memory hole. Water under the bridge. Pres. Obama has grown much in recent years.

Axelrod was a 'political advisor'.

Notwithstanding what he said, Obama is just too smart too a guy to keep a guy like Ayers close.

And let's be clear- Ayer's brand of leftism includes violence.

519 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:29:36am

re: #512 Fozzie Bear

Yep. In his case, he joined a gang when he was a kid to stop getting beaten up and stolen from by other gang members. The two people he murdered were rival gang members, who, in turn, had murdered some of the people in his gang.

Luckily, the experience of murder shook him so damn much-- he still has nightmares about it-- that he just wanted to get as far as that life from possible. Prison was a challenge, given that prisons are pretty violent places full of criminals, but he managed it. After a few years of model behavior they started letting him have more books and stuff and that really helped. He got his arm broken in prison once and a few ribs busted, too. We really don't protect our prisoners very well, and our prisons aren't that well-designed to give those who actually want to rehabilitate the chance to do so.

Anyway, he served 25 years and then got paroled. Works construction for a guy who specializes in taking in reformed ex-cons; they came to a Habitat for Humanity build I worked on about five years ago.

It's all rich tapestry.

520 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:30:27am

re: #506 Killgore Trout

Not so much but he's still around, involved in Chicago politics and a regular speaker at universities and events. Looks like he has a pretty full schedule.

I know, it's shocking that he didn't quit his career as an academic because loonies tried to make a political issue of his behavior several decades ago. Everybody knows you are supposed to quit your job and stop doing whatever it is you do when you are criticized.

Remind me again how this has anything to do with the DNC, or Obama?

521 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:30:46am

re: #512 Fozzie Bear

It's a hard moment in my job when it dawns on you that it often isn't overall character that separates murderers from the rest of us. It's often just one bad snap decision. One moment of blinding anger. That's all it takes. It's a very sobering thing to realize that the guy across the table from you isn't really significantly different from yourself.

May I present Wilbert Rideau, convicted murderer, former death-row inmate, turned writer, award-winning journalist, now free after many trials and much controversy. I hope he stays out of trouble; I think he will. I reached a point where I thought he appeared to be rehabilitated and should be freed, but many thought he should remain in prison.

522 Targetpractice  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:31:04am

Personally, were I the Right, I'd avoid the "company he keeps" angle, considering that the confirmed and potential GOP candidates have been hobnobbing with racists, bigots, creationists, conspiracy theorists, and so forth. This ain't your daddy's elections, where the major parties could sweep things like this under the rug, the Internet makes sure your every major screw-up is available, on demand, to the masses.

523 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:31:51am

re: #359 SanFranciscoZionist

True, but we must have been drinking something until we learned brewing technology--and I'm willing to bet that was quite a big chunk of human history overall.


That was my point. I wouldn't say that we evolved to a higher standard, rather that we have failed to evolve to a lower standard. We don't need to biologically evolve resistance to local pathogens because our cultures have developed technology that means that we don't have to.

Also, I'd like to add that humans have been brewing since prehistory. ;)

524 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:31:53am

re: #518 researchok

And let's be clear- Ayer's brand of leftism includes violence.

Yeah, I'd modify that to 'included violence back before he figured out that it's more fun to be a bourgeois celebrity radical with a nice home you can open to political candidates for coffee afternoons'.

Ayers is nothing but a former thug who managed to get back the social position he so dramatically claimed to disdain in his radical days. Lot of them did. They ponced around blowing shit up for a few years, and then they got all the perks that were coming to them for being upper-middle-class kids anyway.

These people piss me off.

525 blueraven  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:32:06am

re: #506 Killgore Trout

Not so much but he's still around, involved in Chicago politics and a regular speaker at universities and events. Looks like he has a pretty full schedule.

This is true...but he doesn't have a large voice in the overall political scheme of things. Not like Ron Paul as an elected official (Tea Party) or Alex Jones with his nutty radio programs and websites.

Yet the narrative by the far right, is that he is some great feared liberal leader with a lot of influence...he is not.

526 prairiefire  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:32:24am

re: #519 Obdicut

I hope there is more momentum towards the prison rape prevention effort.[Link: www.frumforum.com...]

527 researchok  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:34:53am

re: #524 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, I'd modify that to 'included violence back before he figured out that it's more fun to be a bourgeois celebrity radical with a nice home you can open to political candidates for coffee afternoons'.

Ayers is nothing but a former thug who managed to get back the social position he so dramatically claimed to disdain in his radical days. Lot of them did. They ponced around blowing shit up for a few years, and then they got all the perks that were coming to them for being upper-middle-class kids anyway.

These people piss me off.


And that is exactly why Obama would not be close to a guy like that.

Guys like Ayers don't give, they take. He supported Obama because he thought there would be something in it for him.

528 Girth  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:37:12am

re: #526 prairiefire

I hope there is more momentum towards the prison rape prevention effort.[Link: www.frumforum.com...]

A prison sentence should not be a sentence to be raped. Period, end of story.

One of our great national disgraces, IMO.

529 shiplord kirel  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:42:24am

As for Ayers and Obama, I really don't know what the exact nature of their relationship might be. I do know that 60s style radical activism and its associated worldview have nothing to do with Obama's policies. Nothing. Could you imagine, say, Abbie Hoffman endorsing the Libya operation? Keep in mind that Ayers was a fair amount more radical than Hoffman.
Ayers is a fossil, a historical curiosity, whose family wealth kept him from vanishing into complete obscurity. I've been to one of his lectures. The atmosphere resembles a display of historic artifacts more than anything else, novel only because the artifact on display is a living breathing person rather than a suit of armor or a bunch of yellowed parchment.

530 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:45:41am

It's a gorgeous day here in the northeast. Have a fun day all, i'm bailing on my computer for awhile. It's too nice not to be outside.

531 researchok  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:48:36am

re: #530 Fozzie Bear

It's a gorgeous day here in the northeast. Have a fun day all, i'm bailing on my computer for awhile. It's too nice not to be outside.

I'm doing the same.

532 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:48:54am

Life calls. Catch ya later, lizards.

533 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:54:03am

re: #412 Obdicut

I condemn Mr. Farrakhan appearing in this thread!

534 dcmc  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 11:54:22am

Charles:

At this point I don't want to give my real name because you like me in real life. I don't have any other accounts. I haven't even logged on in like five years.

But honestly, what happened to civility? Why I have to get the wrath of God after making a comment? I don't claim to know every in and out of who you banned, and the more bigots banned the better. But I remember some seriously bad statements from at least 2006. Of course I have no documentary evidence since I haven't been archiving and cross-referencing this site in my spare time. The "Muck the Fuslims" account told me to go to hell (for opposing gloating about "security rounds") in 2005, MAYBE late 2004.

But I do remember other bloggers trying to besmirch you because of comments on your site and you replying, rightly, that you had nothing to do with them. So I would think the same principle would apply to comments on other bloggers' sites. Though I doubt any rose to the level of "Muslim rats need to be exterminated." Some came pretty close to saying Muslims should be expelled from the U.S.

In terms of not being consistent - of course I haven't been consistent. That's why I give people the benefit of the doubt when I see them, or people around them, saying or doing bad things. I'd want people to judge me the same lenient way.

535 prairiefire  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:00:44pm

re: #533 Jeff In Ohio

I condemn Mr. Farrakhan appearing in this thread!

How was the birthday party?

536 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:02:04pm

re: #534 dcmc


The wrath of God is having to read words critical of you? Cool. Hell just lost its fearsomeness.

Seriously, dude, you seem to be missing that, at some point, Charles realized that self-moderation didn't work and started banning people who proposed, say, expelling Muslims from the US.

At this point, you've admitted that the comments here didn't rise to the level of the comments Charles pointed out in the post, so your main argument has already been sapped away. But even if it hadn't; since then, Charles has changed his mind on the duty of a website owner for moderation of comments.

You seem, kind of, to disagree with that. It's hard to tell, since you're dancing around quite a bit.

537 Lidane  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:03:37pm

re: #529 shiplord kirel

As for Ayers and Obama, I really don't know what the exact nature of their relationship might be.

I seriously doubt it was ever much of anything outside of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge.

I do know that 60s style radical activism and its associated worldview have nothing to do with Obama's policies. Nothing.

Pretty much, which makes anyone calling him a 60's style radical and leftist an idiot. You really have to stretch reality to turn Barack Obama into a radical anything. The guy practically radiates pragmatism.

Ayers is a fossil, a historical curiosity, whose family wealth kept him from vanishing into complete obscurity. I've been to one of his lectures. The atmosphere resembles a display of historic artifacts more than anything else, novel only because the artifact on display is a living breathing person rather than a suit of armor or a bunch of yellowed parchment.

Yeah, this. He's old and had pretty much faded into obscurity before being resurrected as a bogeyman in 2008.

538 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:06:15pm

re: #534 dcmc

But honestly, what happened to civility? Why I have to get the wrath of God after making a comment?

Well, I'm not God, but my 'wrath' is because you characterized a minor edit in an old post, to correct a statement that I knew to be wrong, as being "caught" doing something sneaky. I do not accept that framing of this phony issue (that originated at one of the stalker's blogs). It's false. There's nothing wrong with correcting posts, even old ones. My only mistake, that left me open to this ridiculous accusation, was not making a note that the edit had been made.

Of course I have no documentary evidence since I haven't been archiving and cross-referencing this site in my spare time. The "Muck the Fuslims" account told me to go to hell (for opposing gloating about "security rounds") in 2005, MAYBE late 2004.

Apparently, it made quite an impression on you if you still remember it. I don't. But that person is long gone, and in any case that still doesn't even approach the level of "exterminate the rats."

But I do remember other bloggers trying to besmirch you because of comments on your site and you replying, rightly, that you had nothing to do with them.

And as I've written several times previously, no matter how many times a blogger repeats that disclaimer, and despite that it's true in a real sense, the fact is that to a certain extent a blogger must assume responsibility. And allowing comments like "exterminate the rats" is way over that line.

539 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:15:17pm

re: #533 Jeff In Ohio

I condemn Mr. Farrakhan appearing in this thread!

Oh right. Yes, I also condemn Mr. Farrakhan's presence in this thread, ptui, ptui, ptui.

There we go.

540 dcmc  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:15:20pm

re: #536 Obdicut

I dance around nothing. So if a comment is genocidal it automatically besmirches the blogger, but something simply anti-Islam, calling to "muck the Fuslims" it doesn't? And if Charles changed his mind on the relevance of comments, why isn't he equally as guilty retroactively? Or half as equally as guilty if the comments were half as bad? Or shouldn't an honest post on Charles' behalf say: "even though people used to make somewhat less offensive comments on my blog and they didn't apply to me, I use very bad comments on other blogs and conclude without any benefit of the doubt that the comments apply to the other bloggers."

Now that I'm done criticizing someone else and not doing anything constructive of my own I'll take a nap or something.

541 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:17:55pm

re: #540 dcmc

I dance around nothing. So if a comment is genocidal it automatically besmirches the blogger, but something simply anti-Islam, calling to "muck the Fuslims" it doesn't? And if Charles changed his mind on the relevance of comments, why isn't he equally as guilty retroactively? Or half as equally as guilty if the comments were half as bad? Or shouldn't an honest post on Charles' behalf say: "even though people used to make somewhat less offensive comments on my blog and they didn't apply to me, I use very bad comments on other blogs and conclude without any benefit of the doubt that the comments apply to the other bloggers."

Now that I'm done criticizing someone else and not doing anything constructive of my own I'll take a nap or something.

You could also look at who runs those blogs, to see if maybe they really DO tolerate and encourage those comments.

542 dcmc  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:19:05pm

re: #538 Charles

The Talmud says "you will be judged as you judge others." So there is some disingenuity going on somewhere. But not on my part, since I'm not producing anything, just criticizing other people's work without offering an alternative.

But it's still cool that Charles noticed me - it's like when Roger Waters got pissed about my comment on his Facebook page.

543 dcmc  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:21:09pm

re: #541 Charles

I actually know Pamela Geller. She is, in fact, batshit insane, but it's going a bit far to say she's genocidal.

Though I suppose you can find a post of hers disproving me.

544 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:23:38pm

re: #540 dcmc

So if a comment is genocidal it automatically besmirches the blogger, but something simply anti-Islam, calling to "muck the Fuslims" it doesn't?


Who is saying that one comment automatically besmirches the blogger?

This is about the fact that some places let people make these comments ALL THE TIME. And they don't make any effort to correct that or make it clear that they don't agree. Neither is the case for Charles.

Failure to delete or condemn every single post you don't agree with doesn't somehow make it tacit approval. There has to be a pattern and history.

545 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:23:41pm

re: #542 dcmc

The Talmud says "you will be judged as you judge others." So there is some disingenuity going on somewhere. But not on my part, since I'm not producing anything, just criticizing other people's work without offering an alternative.

Interesting.

Is there a Talmud quote about using the Talmud to exonerate yourself from disingenuity?

546 blueraven  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:24:05pm

re: #542 dcmc

The Talmud says "you will be judged as you judge others." So there is some disingenuity going on somewhere. But not on my part, since I'm not producing anything, just criticizing other people's work without offering an alternative.

But it's still cool that Charles noticed me - it's like when Roger Waters got pissed about my comment on his Facebook page.

Wow..."look at me, look at me". Pathetic.

547 dcmc  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:26:39pm

re: #545 Charles

I don't understand. Please elaborate.

548 dcmc  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:27:07pm

re: #546 blueraven

Ahhhhh.... and here come the insults.

549 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:30:32pm

re: #547 dcmc

I don't understand. Please elaborate.

Well, it's kind of the ultimate appeal to authority, wouldn't you say? Picking out a quote from a sacred book and using it to prove that you're not being disingenuous, seems kind of chickenshit to me.

Not to put too fine a point on it.

550 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:32:28pm

re: #543 dcmc

I actually know Pamela Geller.

Imagine my surprise.

She is, in fact, batshit insane, but it's going a bit far to say she's genocidal.

No, it's not.

Though I suppose you can find a post of hers disproving me.

Easily.

551 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:35:12pm

re: #540 dcmc

I dance around nothing. So if a comment is genocidal it automatically besmirches the blogger, but something simply anti-Islam, calling to "muck the Fuslims" it doesn't?

Um, no. I feel it does besmirch them.

And if Charles changed his mind on the relevance of comments, why isn't he equally as guilty retroactively?

Er, because today is today. If those other bloggers were to say, "You know what? These comments are out of line and over the line, and they're not welcome here at all.", then that'd be great. I'd give them the same respect for that that I give Charles-- I mean, as long as they weren't the ones saying the bigoted crap in the first place.

But they haven't done that, have they? That's kind of the point.

I'm not sure why this is hard to grasp for you. If someone says, "I realize that my past behavior led to things that were less than good, so I changed", that's a good thing. And it means they're in a uniquely fine position to criticize people who are still engaging in that past behavior.

552 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:35:31pm

re: #548 dcmc

Ahhh... and here come the insults.

Go ahead and use this as your chance to complain about insults, bias, that you are the victim, etc. God forbid someone uses foul language to make a point.

Insulting our intelligence over the course of a dozen posts is perfectly ok though, as long as you keep away from taboo words.

553 McSpiff  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:38:33pm

re: #545 Charles

Interesting.

Is there a Talmud quote about using the Talmud to exonerate yourself from disingenuity?

Paging LVQ, Paging LVQ.

554 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:38:38pm

re: #522 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Personally, were I the Right, I'd avoid the "company he keeps" angle, considering that the confirmed and potential GOP candidates have been hobnobbing with racists, bigots, creationists, conspiracy theorists, and so forth. This ain't your daddy's elections, where the major parties could sweep things like this under the rug, the Internet makes sure your every major screw-up is available, on demand, to the masses.

The mainstreaming of creeps on both sides bothers me. I couldn't vote for Mitt Romney in 2012 because of his choice to associate/affiliate himself with creeps at "Values Voters Summits" and the like. It's just funny to see how people refuse to see the problems on their own side of the isle, or with politicians on their own sides of issues. I could have voted for the pro-gay rights, pro-choice Mitt Romney of 1994. Today's version? No way.

I'm a likely Obama voter in 2012, btw. I doubt he still thinks Bill Ayers is a friend. I hope I'm not wrong about that.

But the freak-out and downdings for my posts are, well, silly and funny.

555 DCMC  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:40:04pm

re: #549 Charles

Well, it's kind of the ultimate appeal to authority, wouldn't you say? Picking out a quote from a sacred book and using it to prove that you're not being disingenuous, seems kind of chickenshit to me.

Not to put too fine a point on it.

re: #549 Charles

Not an appeal to authority. The Talmud isn't sacred, incidentally. I'm not using that quote to prove I'm not being disingenuous - it's a handy little principle to show the virtues of not judging others harshly (and of making sweeping judgments). It's the same principle I invoke when telling everyone around me not make generalizations like "all Muslims are terrorists" even though my workplace consists of studying how radical Muslims quote the Koran to justify terrorism.

And what is this "chickenshit" nonsense? Why am I being subjected to ad hominem attacks on this liberal, tolerant blog?

556 McSpiff  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:40:31pm

re: #554 funky chicken

You haven't shown that he's ever thought of Bill Ayers as a friend. You're repeating tired, bored talking points from an election you were widely defeated in.

If you're posting crap thats been debunked here countless times, don't be surprised when people get sick of your shtick.

557 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:41:54pm

re: #554 funky chicken

But the freak-out and downdings for my posts are, well, silly and funny.

That you need to characterize people telling you that you're wrong as 'freak-outs' is rather sad.

558 DCMC  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:43:14pm

re: #550 Charles

Imagine my surprise.

No, it's not.

Easily.

"Imagine my surprise"? Excuse me? are you insinuating that because I pointed out what I thought was hypocracy I agree with Geller's disgusting, racist views? You don't know anything about my relationship with her. The only relevant part is that I defriended her on Facebook after the Ground Zero Mosque issue came up.

559 McSpiff  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:43:38pm

I love how people will continue to stay at blogs that make them feel wildly persecuted. Figure that one out. Heading up stairs.

560 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:44:24pm

re: #555 DCMC

re: #549 Charles

Not an appeal to authority.

This will quickly turn into a game of "I know you are, but what am I," to quote the sage, Pee Wee Herman.

Yes, it is an appeal to authority. A really obvious one.

And what is this "chickenshit" nonsense? Why am I being subjected to ad hominem attacks on this liberal, tolerant blog?

You asked me to elaborate, so I told you exactly what I meant.

561 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:44:33pm

re: #555 DCMC

A) The talmudic principle would better be represented by comprehending what I wrote to you above. Charles judged himself, found that his moderation wasn't cutting it, and changed. That's what he's asking others to do. So, on that talmudic principle, he's doing fine.

Do you think that anyone who's ever done something can never criticize people for that behavior? That criticizing someone for losing their temper all the time is hypocritical if I used to, then realized that, and took steps to fix it? Because that's what your argument amounts to. And it's a failure.

B) That's not what ad hominem means. I really wish people would learn that. Ad hominem is saying "Your argument doesn't count because you stink", not just "you stink", and definitely not "Because your argument sucks so bad, you stink."

562 DCMC  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:47:49pm

re: #561 Obdicut

Gentlemen,

If Charles has actually said at at some point that his principle was wrong, then obviously this whole discussion is moot. Someone should have just said so at the beginning.

563 blueraven  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:55:04pm

re: #562 DCMC

Gentlemen,

If Charles has actually said at at some point that his principle was wrong, then obviously this whole discussion is moot. Someone should have just said so at the beginning.

Maybe you should have had all the facts, before coming here to criticize?

564 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:56:05pm

re: #562 DCMC

Gentlemen,

If Charles has actually said at at some point that his principle was wrong, then obviously this whole discussion is moot. Someone should have just said so at the beginning.

In other words: "It's your fault I don't understand the context of the discussion."

565 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 1:04:56pm

re: #562 DCMC

What principle?

Charles used to not moderate to nearly the extent he does now. He found that let to extremists taking over. He kicked them out, and has said that doing so, taking that responsibility, is necessary for every blogger. Even if in abstract principle a blogger 'should' be able to let any and all comments stand, the fact is that if you do so, you let the extremists take over.

What aren't you getting about this? He said that his previous behavior wasn't working, that the principle didn't matter since the practical outcome was terrible, and changed his behavior.

You seem to believe that someone recognizing that what they're doing is not working and changing, and then criticizing others for not likewise realizing that, is bad. It's a rather insane position.

566 CuriousLurker  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 1:11:17pm

re: #561 Obdicut

B) That's not what ad hominem means. I really wish people would learn that. Ad hominem is saying "Your argument doesn't count because you stink", not just "you stink", and definitely not "Because your argument sucks so bad, you stink."

A form of ad hominem is exactly what DCMC is doing:

Ad hominem tu quoque (lit: "You too!") refers to a claim that the source making the argument has spoken or acted in a way inconsistent with the argument. In particular, if Source A criticizes the actions of Source B, a tu quoque response is that Source A has acted in the same way. This argument is fallacious because it does not disprove the argument; if the premise is true then Source A may be a hypocrite, but this does not make the statement less credible from a logical perspective. Indeed, Source A may be in a position to provide personal testimony to support the argument.

For example, a father may tell his son not to start smoking as he will regret it when he is older, and the son may point out that his father is or was a smoker. This does not alter the fact that his son may regret smoking when he is older.

Returning to my analog weekend now.

567 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 1:13:19pm

re: #566 CuriousLurker

A form of ad hominem is exactly what DCMC is doing:

Returning to my analog weekend now.

It only makes perfect sense that the magical balance fairy would rage against the man. ;)

568 dcmc  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 2:02:30pm

Oh for heaven's sake I don't do a PhD of research before posting something - I pointed out what pro-forma seemed like a level of hypocracy.

I've noticed that the treatment meted out to people who disagree with Charles is EXACTLY the same as the old days.

569 dcmc  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 2:04:27pm

re: #566 CuriousLurker

I am in absolutely no way being ad hominum.

Gentlemen - I get the point already.

570 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 2:10:35pm

re: #568 dcmc

I've noticed that the treatment meted out to people who disagree with Charles is EXACTLY the same as the old days.

It could also be that you're wrong.

571 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 2:22:30pm

re: #548 dcmc

Ahhh... and here come the insults.

re: #552 prononymous

Go ahead and use this as your chance to complain about insults, bias...

re: #562 DCMC

Gentlemen,

If Charles has actually said at at some point that his principle was wrong, then obviously this whole discussion is moot. Someone should have just said so at the beginning.

That you are the victim...

re: #568 dcmc

I've noticed that the treatment meted out to people who disagree with Charles is EXACTLY the same as the old days.

Now that you have completed the trifecta, feel free to run away as usual.

It is laughable that you came in here, reference one instance from a long time ago, and then complain that people weren't informing you that it isn't the norm even though that's exactly what they did. And then complain about the relatively mild response to your clueless argument.

572 Achilles Tang  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 2:24:46pm

re: #378 Girth

Possibly still occupying Kuwait? How far back are we going in order to set up this hypothetical? It's pretty hard to find people that think that Desert Storm was controversial.

How far back do you think one is allowed to learn from history?

If there had not been GWI there would likely not have been GWII.

The point is, however you want to imagine an alternate history, the largest and most powerful dictatorship that put fear into all of the Arab world and makes Gaddafi look like the simpleton psychopath that he is, would not have put up with neighboring revolutions for democracy, assuming that those revolutions had ever thought they had a chance of success.

Whatever one thinks of it, Iraq is the first and only attempt at real democracy in the Arab world regardless of how it was triggered and to claim it has no effect at all on recent events is to simplify excessively.

573 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 4:03:00pm

re: #562 DCMC

Gentlemen,

If Charles has actually said at at some point that his principle was wrong, then obviously this whole discussion is moot. Someone should have just said so at the beginning.

Nice stunt dude, guess we probably won't be seeing you around

574 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 4:06:07pm

re: #520 Fozzie Bear

I know, it's shocking that he didn't quit his career as an academic because loonies tried to make a political issue of his behavior several decades ago. Everybody knows you are supposed to quit your job and stop doing whatever it is you do when you are criticized.

haha this

575 jaerik  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 5:08:25pm

It's almost like a race to see which extremist examples of each culture can out-retard the other.

576 Bizarro Stormy  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:03:36pm

I haven't posted since the day I signed up, but this topic really "hits home"...

I peruse Debbie Schlussel's blog [Link: www.debbieschlussel.com...] once a week to see who she's been railing against...

The hateful rhetoric Charles has pointed out occurs daily over there...

Scary shit...

577 rikzilla  Sun, Apr 3, 2011 10:57:58pm

Sadly even fellow fans of Michael Yon are doing it. It's all the rage these days. :(

578 dcmc  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:18:10am

re: #570 Charles

Just like I was wrong when I opposed gloating about "security rounds" and names like "Muck the Fuslims."

579 Gus  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:22:02am

re: #578 dcmc

Charles put it all out on the line asshole. Have you? Nope.

580 DCMC  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:42:17am

re: #579 Gus 802

re: #579 Gus 802

Charles put it all out on the line asshole. Have you? Nope.

What is this level of invective like calling me an "a**hole"? How does that contribute to the debate? Is this a forum for discussion of issues or a place to score points with people who disagree with you?

581 DCMC  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:42:44am

Honestly, this is like talk radio

582 DCMC  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:43:30am

re: #581 DCMC

Honestly, this is like talk radio

I'm waiting for the witty and slightly rude responses to this.

583 Gus  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:45:07am

re: #580 DCMC

Oh. I'm sorry. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. Blow me.

584 DCMC  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:06:19am

re: #583 Gus 802

Oh. I'm sorry. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. Blow me.

And who is the bad guy here? For heaven's sake? It's not very classy or civil to insult people while hiding behind a cloak of anonymity. You will all notice that despite remaining anonymous, I have not insulted a single person or used foul language. I pointed out, that in my opinion, Charles is using a principle to condemn others that could easily apply to himself. Others maintain that this opinion is based on a too-general reading of the situation. That opinion may or may not be right but I think it is worthy to discuss on this manner of public importance. I am not making my point by insulting or harassing people.

The level of invective in the comments section against someone who disagrees with Charles is EXACTLY the same as the old days, if personal experience is any guide.

585 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:19:29am

re: #580 DCMC

Discussion?
You've been ignoring anything that Charles has said so far.
Please stop playing the victim, it makes you look petty.

586 DCMC  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:22:58am

re: #585 Varek Raith

Discussion?
You've been ignoring anything that Charles has said so far.
Please stop playing the victim, it makes you look petty.

Previous comment applies.

587 boxhead  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:39:41am

ok... I was trying to refrain from posting on this topic due to the level of emotions displayed in the many threads, but I too need to vent.

First Amendment Rights are non negotiable. Even if it means some douche bag does something that pisses me off, (as long as that something does not infringe upon the Rights of others). Processing the questionable action in a manner that also does not infringe upon the Rights of others is what USA Citizens are supposed to do.

Processing the actions of a mob upon nearby innocent people who are only nearby because they want to help said crazed mob and others is difficult. I feel heat (understatement) when I think about the type of people who can justify horrific acts on someone because a dumb ass's actions on the other side of the world. Actions that I believe are First Amendment Rights however disgusting they might be.

It is my opinion that if someone wants to sit at the grownups table, then they better be able to respect others. Part of that is not demanding grossly unbalanced response to another persons non violent action. Like no killing for cartoons or burning something that the burner owns. Frankly I would not want anything to do with folks like that. Why would I?

I do understand the heat in all the blog posts that Charles re-posted in this article. The actions of the mob were unspeakable. But, to be grownup, one cannot lump together all of any group because of the actions of a subset.

I really don't see a near term solution. Thus, we need to get out of the Middle East. It is not helping USA at all. IMHO at this time our cultures are too different.

(damn this was hard to write without excessive heat)

588 DCMC  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 7:09:27am

re: #583 Gus 802

Oh. I'm sorry. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. Blow me.

Someone by the name "publicityStunted" actually "plussed" this remark! What on Earth is positive about this remark?

I quote from the disclaimer: "Disagreement and debate are welcome, but insults and abuse are not, and may cause your account to be blocked."

589 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 8:54:53am

re: #588 DCMC

Any reason you're ignoring the very simple explanation in my 565?

590 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 9:48:35am

re: #589 Obdicut

Any reason you're ignoring the very simple explanation in my 565?

He's too busy being traumatized by an insult from an anonymous person that happened 7 years ago.

591 beartiger  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:32:46am
Someone by the name "publicityStunted" actually "plussed" this remark! What on Earth is positive about this remark?

And someone by the name of beartiger negatived it. Back to zero. There will be more plussers. Welcome to LGF. :)

592 beartiger  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:34:45am
He's too busy being traumatized by an insult from an anonymous person that happened 7 years ago.

He didn't say he was traumatized by it, not that what he actually said matters, I guess, in the rush to demonize him as a horrible person who dares to disagree.

593 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:47:12am

re: #592 beartiger

He didn't say he was traumatized by it, not that what he actually said matters, I guess, in the rush to demonize him as a horrible person who dares to disagree.

Nope. Not even close.
He's ignored many explanations by Charles and Obdicut .
He's not getting the answer he wants so, he pouts.

594 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:56:17am

re: #592 beartiger

He didn't say he was traumatized by it, not that what he actually said matters, I guess, in the rush to demonize him as a horrible person who dares to disagree.

No, he didn't "say" he was traumatized, but it's obvious. He's brought up that horrible insult at least four times in this thread, while ignoring every explanation offered to him in rebuttal to his stupid claims.

And it's pretty clear you're grinding an axe too, with your idiotic "demonization" whine. If you can't stand having your opinions challenged, you're at the wrong blog.

595 dcmc  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:13:32am

re: #589 Obdicut

Any reason you're ignoring the very simple explanation in my 565?

And re: # 592

The substance of whether Charles was right or wrong in this post is not at issue any more. I'm making the point, to exactly the wrong crowd, that the tone of this discussion has become nasty and unacceptable. It is not suited to intelligent discussion of current issues. How does using terms like "insane argument," "a**hole," "chickensh*t" and "blow me" (don't know how to asterisk that one away) contribute to an intelligent debate? How is "he's too busy being upset over an anonymous commenter" anything other than a nasty comment intended to score points? This is more like being on the schoolyard playground.

And, if we're doing the "why hasn't he responded to post X" thing, why hasn't Charles responded to my post #558, where I ask him if he is genuinely grouping my views with that of Pamela Geller since I know her personally? I don't attribute his not responding to "being too busy criticizing me" or something; he just didn't respond to me.

596 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:17:23am

re: #595 dcmc

The substance of whether Charles was right or wrong in this post is not at issue any more.

That's true. Now you just want to whinge and complain about how persecuted you are.

597 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:25:00am

re: #584 DCMC

You will all notice that despite remaining anonymous, I have not insulted a single person...

Bullshit. You started off by accusing me of being "caught" sneakily editing old posts to conceal something -- which is not true, and is extremely insulting. Then you proceeded to accuse me of hypocrisy for pointing out the genocidal language on right wing sites.

Then when people pushed back, you started whining about it, and you haven't finished yet.

You've been an arrogant, insulting ass from the very beginning.

598 Obdicut  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:26:15am

re: #595 dcmc

Yeah. Didn't think you actually had a response for it. Just more craven dodging.

Boring.

599 dcmc  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:26:40am

re: #594 Charles

No, he didn't "say" he was traumatized, but it's obvious. He's brought up that horrible insult at least four times in this thread, while ignoring every explanation offered to him in rebuttal to his stupid claims.

And it's pretty clear you're grinding an axe too, with your idiotic "demonization" whine. If you can't stand having your opinions challenged, you're at the wrong blog.

What on Earth is this? It's not an issue of having my opinions challenged. Charles, you actually know me in person and I even donated money to this blog, quite a while ago. You have given me hat tips and linked to articles I have written. And yes, you have linked to my articles since your abandonment of the right.

And I would politely submit that you do not know what traumatizes me or not. I have lived through terrorist attacks, missile attacks, and all sorts of extremely bad things. Insults on a blog are something I can handle. And believe you me, having my opinions challenged is something I can handle. My point in all of this is that the tone is just unacceptable and I really hoped you'd agree.

600 wrenchwench  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:35:38am

re: #599 dcmc

What on Earth is this? It's not an issue of having my opinions challenged. Charles, you actually know me in person and I even donated money to this blog, quite a while ago. You have given me hat tips and linked to articles I have written. And yes, you have linked to my articles since your abandonment of the right.

Oooh, that's an appeal to authority even higher than the Talmud!

//

My point in all of this is that the tone is just unacceptable and I really hoped you'd agree.

You made me laugh.

601 dcmc  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:47:09am

re: #597 Charles

Bullshit. You started off by accusing me of being "caught" sneakily editing old posts to conceal something -- which is not true, and is extremely insulting. Then you proceeded to accuse me of hypocrisy for pointing out the genocidal language on right wing sites.

Then when people pushed back, you started whining about it, and you haven't finished yet.

You've been an arrogant, insulting ass from the very beginning.

First of all, I said "caught editing an old post." As I understand it, that was the point of your "I've been caught fixing a mistake" post from a while back. You're right, there's nothing wrong with it. I did not intend to insult. I do recall, however, a number of cases when you criticize others for editing old content. I of course could be wrong. If my characterization of the situation is wrong, then I apologize. Which is what civil people conducting intelligent debates do,

Regarding the genocidal comments thing, as I see it, you were frequently criticized by others for some really bad comments (which were not removed), which you justified by saying that you were not responsible for others' comments. My point was that should apply to an analysis of other blogs as well. You, and others, have correctly pointed out that wonton calls for genocide are differently unacceptable. But it's the type of superficial similarity that is hard not to notice.

I choose not to respond to your final comment.

602 dcmc  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:48:03am

re: #600 wrenchwench

Oooh, that's an appeal to authority even higher than the Talmud!

//

You made me laugh.

Oh, that's not even a good insulting response. Please try harder.

603 dcmc  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 11:56:27am

re: #597 Charles

Bullshit. You started off by accusing me of being "caught" sneakily editing old posts to conceal something -- which is not true, and is extremely insulting. Then you proceeded to accuse me of hypocrisy for pointing out the genocidal language on right wing sites.

Then when people pushed back, you started whining about it, and you haven't finished yet.

You've been an arrogant, insulting ass from the very beginning.

Just to go back to this, I have not insulted a single person and will not. Charles, you're the editor of this blog and much of the content concerns what other bloggers did, what they meant, what you did, what you meant. So I would think discussing and even criticizing your actions would be an acceptable subject for a comment. What are the points of comments if not to discuss the actual post? And why assume a commenter has bad intentions?

"Why is DCMC wasting his time on this?" you might be asking. I dunno - because I have been reading this blog for nearly ten years and would like to think the editor and major commenters are not against him.

604 dcmc  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:03:02pm

re: #600 wrenchwench

Oooh, that's an appeal to authority even higher than the Talmud!

//

You made me laugh.

Think about that comment as a response to mine for a second.

605 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:20:36pm
606 wrenchwench  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:20:59pm

re: #604 dcmc

Think about that comment as a response to mine for a second.

What do you think I was doing when I made that comment as a response to yours, if not "thinking about it"?

Are you trying to make me laugh again?

607 DCMC  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:31:44pm

re: #606 wrenchwench

What do you think I was doing when I made that comment as a response to yours, if not "thinking about it"?

Are you trying to make me laugh again?

I will gladly spell it out: I wrote about the low and base tone of the debate on this thread, much of it directed in crude attacks on me, and your response is to crudely mock what I wrote That is the very definition of what I was talking about.

But, as everyone can be wrong sometimes, sorry if I've misunderstood your comment.

608 DCMC  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:39:25pm

I will add that this isn't an issue of 'whining' as it's been so generously characterized. My point is that this is presumably a forum for intelligent debate and I'd like to see it remain so.

609 wrenchwench  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:41:05pm

re: #607 DCMC

I will gladly spell it out: I wrote about the low and base tone of the debate on this thread, much of it directed in crude attacks on me, and your response is to crudely mock what I wrote That is the very definition of what I was talking about.

But, as everyone can be wrong sometimes, sorry if I've misunderstood your comment.


And yet you call it crude! Seems as though it was refined enough to hit just what I was aiming for.

You have provided a great target for that by declaring yourself the Minister of Tone.

610 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:42:03pm
611 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:42:51pm
612 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:43:22pm

re: #608 DCMC

re: #610 beartiger

This about sums you two up.

613 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:44:49pm
614 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:46:47pm

re: #605 beartiger

I'm finished putting up with your snide comments. Bye now!

615 DCMC  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:47:08pm

re: #609 wrenchwench

And yet you call it crude! Seems as though it was refined enough to hit just what I was aiming for.

You have provided a great target for that by declaring yourself the Minister of Tone.

I don't understand that criticism, frankly.

616 DCMC  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:47:37pm

re: #612 Varek Raith

re: #610 beartiger

This about sums you two up.

I don't understand this either.

618 Interesting Times  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:50:29pm

re: #609 wrenchwench

You have provided a great target for that by declaring yourself the Minister of Tone.

That would make a great band name :)

As for the rest of this discussion, I daresay most people find smarmy, passive-aggressive self-righteousness far more offensive than a few "crude" words.

619 DCMC  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:51:58pm

re: #617 Varek Raith

Image: 9c1cae9e-02bb-43d2-bb67-974fc9a34469.jpg

What?

620 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:56:48pm

'beartiger', by the way, has the same IP address as the banned stalker 'Fenway_Nation'.

Coincidence? I don't think so.

621 CuriousLurker  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:57:50pm

re: #609 wrenchwench

re: #618 publicityStunted

I just went back and read all DCMC's comments sequentially. I have an inkling of who he is now and he's eating this up. LOL

622 Varek Raith  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 12:58:47pm

re: #621 CuriousLurker

re: #618 publicityStunted

I just went back and read all DCMC's comments sequentially. I have an inkling of who he is now and he's eating this up. LOL

Image: 883f5f45-bcd3-4229-9817-b87b4437de8e.gif

623 DCMC  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:04:25pm

re: #621 CuriousLurker

re: #618 publicityStunted

I just went back and read all DCMC's comments sequentially. I have an inkling of who he is now and he's eating this up. LOL

And who might I be?re: #622 Varek Raith

Image: 883f5f45-bcd3-4229-9817-b87b4437de8e.gif

I frankly fail to understand how a cat stuck in a box applies to anything. it is very cute, though.

624 CuriousLurker  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:07:29pm

re: #622 Varek Raith

Image: 883f5f45-bcd3-4229-9817-b87b4437de8e.gif

Funny, but no cigar.

Think, lizards. Listen to the tone, the dramatic "you know me in real life" cloak & dagger stuff, the dropped hints. Who does it remind you of? Where did he go after he left here, and would those people be willing to sacrifice a spare sock for him so he could come back and try to psych everyone out, especially Charles?

Is this ringing any bells yet?

625 wrenchwench  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:08:59pm

re: #615 DCMC

I don't understand that criticism, frankly.

I'm not surprised.

That concludes this transmission.

626 Interesting Times  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:10:50pm

re: #624 CuriousLurker

Think, lizards. Listen to the tone, the dramatic "you know me in real life" cloak & dagger stuff, the dropped hints. Who does it remind you of? Where did he go after he left here, and would those people be willing to sacrifice a spare sock for him so he could come back and try to psych everyone out, especially Charles?

Is this ringing any bells yet?

Big Bells.

627 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:13:48pm

re: #624 CuriousLurker

Very true. Could be any one of a number of former posters.

628 CuriousLurker  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:14:18pm

re: #626 publicityStunted

Big Bells.

Nah, that's not who I was thinking, but apparently I was wrong.

629 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:14:22pm

re: #608 DCMC

It is whining. If you cared about debate then why don't you stick to responding to those that have engaged you without insults?

Why? Because you lost the argument and now you are trying to distract from that by playing the victim. It's nothing but a common logical fallacy, the emotional appeal. The fact is that your argument was trash, your irrelevant victimization red herring doesn't change that.

630 CuriousLurker  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 1:20:27pm

re: #628 CuriousLurker

Nah, that's not who I was thinking, but apparently I was wrong.

Anyway, whoever he is, I'm done feeding the concern troll. Off to some more constructive activity now.

631 DCMC  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 2:03:56pm

re: #624 CuriousLurker

Funny, but no cigar.

Think, lizards. Listen to the tone, the dramatic "you know me in real life" cloak & dagger stuff, the dropped hints. Who does it remind you of? Where did he go after he left here, and would those people be willing to sacrifice a spare sock for him so he could come back and try to psych everyone out, especially Charles?

Is this ringing any bells yet?

My only clue: The walrus was Paul

632 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Apr 4, 2011 10:45:25pm

re: #620 Charles

'beartiger', by the way, has the same IP address as the banned stalker 'Fenway_Nation'.

Coincidence? I don't think so.

i remember that guy, he was a weak sauce machine

guess he's still limp as ever


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