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823 comments

1 allegro  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 5:52:11pm

I think a more appropriate response to her word salad would be...

LOLwut?

2 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 5:53:28pm

Sarah Palin: The gift that keeps on giving.

3 Sheila Broflovski  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 5:56:06pm

re: #2 Romantic Heretic

Sarah Palin: The grift that keeps on giving.

ftfy

4 Surabaya Stew  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 5:56:12pm

Can't ever recall Obama's campaign so directly focused on the attacks against him, and managing to turn them around to rally support (and dollars) to the reelection fund. I'm happy they're fighting back.

I also like "the two-term fund", has a nice ring to it :-)

5 Interesting Times  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:01:51pm
6 elisabeth  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:02:10pm

I don't know. This seems an odd thing to "worry" about. For one thing, Palin, unsurprisingly, makes zero sense and who outside FNC pays her any mind at this point?

My guess is that OFA has lots of money to spend (see the Guggenheim documentary) and is fine to spending some now. I'm just not sure Palin's word salad civil war hot mess is the thing to spend it on.

7 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:02:24pm

This kind of stuff, by the way, is what Sarah Palin learned from her associations with the Buchanan/Birch Society far right.

8 elisabeth  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:05:32pm

re: #5 Interesting Times

My favorite so far even though it doesn't have to really do with the movie:

Ana Marie Cox ‏ @anamariecox

#GameChangeSpoilers: It's a sled.

9 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:06:12pm

What a repulsive woman. She's talking about the president of the United States.

10 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:08:35pm

SUBTITLES, THEY USED SUBTITLES

Holy Fuck. She is toast. Done.

I can't believe the campaign finally went there. She's been spewing racist hate dogwhistles from day one. That's her real money maker. And to hear it one more time, as crazy as that appearance was, was the perfect moment to say enough.

This is going to be the ultimate to date election in my lifetime.

11 Jeff In Ohio  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:10:15pm

re: #6 elisabeth

I don't know. This seems an odd thing to "worry" about. For one thing, Palin, unsurprisingly, makes zero sense and who outside FNC pays her any mind at this point?

My guess is that OFA has lots of money to spend (see the Guggenheim documentary) and is fine to spending some now. I'm just not sure Palin's word salad civil war hot mess is the thing to spend it on.

Look at it as a way to control the news cycle and excite the base. Sarah Palin who attacked will keep spewing bullcrap until 1. everyone gets tired of her or 2. it amplifies the chance she goes wingnutty in full viewn. 2. it cranks up the base a little more - round here the call's are coming and 2012 campaign is full underway!

12 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:11:15pm

re: #10 Stanley Sea for a while, till someone screws up

SUBTITLES, THEY USED SUBTITLES

I thought that was hilarious. You actually need the subtitles to pare away all the glossolalia so you could understand wtf she was trying to say.

13 Interesting Times  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:13:34pm

re: #6 elisabeth

I don't know. This seems an odd thing to "worry" about. For one thing, Palin, unsurprisingly, makes zero sense and who outside FNC pays her any mind at this point?

On the one hand, it seems to elevate her to a level of importance she in no way deserves...but on the other, it definitely encapsulates the dangerous stupidity of the modern right. And since it's aimed at the Democratic base, it also serves to remind them of a rather narrow escape.

14 BrainSurfer  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:13:51pm

Hate or love her - she certainly gets attention. Now as for the truth she speaks - that's in the ears of the beholder.

15 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:14:33pm

Barack Obama has never been, I think, ah, seen in the conventional traditional way of-of we who would describe a man of valor.

I know people often don't speak in clear, correct sentences, but what the hell?

16 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:16:08pm

re: #13 Interesting Times

On the one hand, it seems to elevate her to a level of importance she in no way deserves...but on the other, it definitely encapsulates the dangerous stupidity of the modern right. And since it's aimed at the Democratic base, it also serves to remind them of a rather narrow escape.

Yep

17 Kragar  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:20:06pm

They just want a return to a classless society, run by white land owners where women and the coloreds knew their place as described in the Bible.

18 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:24:19pm

The subtext is clear. When Sarah Palin and others like here say that Obama is taking us back%

19 BrainSurfer  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:26:06pm

re: #9 Gus

What a repulsive woman. She's talking about the president of the United States.

You are absolutely right. She is certainly talking about the president of the United States, and that kind of talk should not be condoned. The nerve of that woman is beyond the pale.

20 chandsolo  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:27:21pm

re: #19 BrainSurfer

You are absolutely right. She is certainly talking about the president of the United States, and that kind of talk should not be condoned. The nerve of that woman is beyond the pale.

Trollololololololol

21 BrainSurfer  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:28:26pm

re: #20 chan

That was quick.

22 Lidane  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:28:50pm

re: #14 BrainSurfer

She wouldn't know truth if it walked up to her and introduced itself.

She's a repulsive, stupid woman and this country dodged one hell of a bullet when John McCain lost. The idea that she could ever have been a heartbeat from the nuke codes is frightening.

23 TDG2112  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:29:26pm

I think this is a trial balloon. The Democrats are going to hang these idiots (Palin, Rush etc) around every Republican's neck during the election, and most especially whoever gets the nomination. But I think it could be effective, and not just the presidential campaign is going to do it.

Advertisers fleeing the Far right could see news stations take that as a queue to take these fools to task as CNN just did with the Mini-breitbarts. I have had a sense since 9-11 that Fox and the conservative media had really cowed the MSM into just not challenging anything they said. Could this be about to change?

24 elisabeth  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:29:48pm

re: #13 Interesting Times

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. :)

I just don't see her as being particularly relevant any more and there are more worthwhile sources from which to excite the base ~ Santorum, who is still running for POTUS, is one. The war on women is another. Palin is a 2008 has-been. But that's just me and I'm willing to concede I might be wrong. :)

25 BrainSurfer  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:30:47pm

re: #22 Lidane

She wouldn't know truth if it walked up to her and introduced itself.

She's a repulsive, stupid woman and this country dodged one hell of a bullet when John McCain lost. The idea that she could ever have been a heartbeat from the nuke codes is frightening.

I think we are still dodging bullets left and right with Joe Biden as VP. The idea the he is a heartbeat from the nuke codes is really really frightening.

26 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:32:03pm

"Obama for America"? Pretty bold ad coming from the man himself.

27 Ming  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:32:54pm

The ad makes an important point: that many, many attacks on President Obama are flat-out wrong and dangerous.

I hope the ad is a good idea for the President politically. I'm not 100% sure. Obama has distinguished himself, especially in today's political climate, by taking the high road. This ad may be viewed as not-quite the high road, in that it pokes fun at Ms. Palin's mental illness.

But the ad is probably a good idea. The unrelenting attacks on the President have crossed the line, again and again and again. It may be very dangerous to NOT respond with a strong ad like this. In a sense, if someone doesn't vote to re-elect Barack Obama, they're acquiescing to the poison spread by those on the extreme right, especially Sarah Palin.

I strongly recommend the excellent book about Sarah Palin: The Rogue, by Joe McGinnis. Remember that Twilight Zone movie, when Dan Ackroyd says: "Do you want to see something really scary?" If you think the video in this blog post is scary, read that book by Joe McGinnis. You begin to get a sense of what Palin's mental universe is like. Believe me, it's not a pleasant feeling.

28 Lidane  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:33:17pm

It's amazing to me that anyone would even be so fucking brain dead in their hate for Barack Obama that they think that a black man would want to turn this country back to a time before the Civil War.

What. The. Fuck. How goddamned stupid do you have to be to believe that?

29 Lidane  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:34:43pm

re: #25 BrainSurfer

Joe Biden had almost 30 years in the Senate, including very powerful positions in Judiciary and Armed Services. I'd trust him with the keys to the Oval Office long before I'd ever trust Sarah Palin. Fuck her.

30 chandsolo  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:35:48pm

re: #25 BrainSurfer

I think we are still dodging bullets left and right with Joe Biden as VP. The idea the he is a heartbeat from the nuke codes is really really frightening.

I know I shouldn't feed you, but Biden has foreign policy chops that the entire republican presidential slate would kill for. And that's a big fucking deal ; )

31 Sheila Broflovski  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:36:24pm

re: #28 Lidane

It's amazing to me that anyone would even be so fucking brain dead in their hate for Barack Obama that they think that a black man would want to turn this country back to a time before the Civil War.

What. The. Fuck. How goddamned stupid do you have to be to believe that?

Work with me now--they're afraid of Barack Obama turning this country into a Bizarro-world antebellum scenario, where Miz Scarlett and the Tarleton twins and Ashley Wilkes are all Black, and Mammy and all the field hands are white.

32 Mocking Jay  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:37:10pm

Watching Game Change. Never thought I'd hear about "Troopergate" again...

33 Interesting Times  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:37:28pm

re: #29 Lidane

Joe Biden had almost 30 years in the Senate, including very powerful positions in Judiciary and Armed Services.

Joe Biden also brought America the Violence Against Women act, which the Republicans are happily trying to destroy.

I'd trust Joe Biden with the keys to the Oval Office long before I'd trust any Republican, period.

34 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:39:53pm

re: #6 elisabeth

I don't know. This seems an odd thing to "worry" about. For one thing, Palin, unsurprisingly, makes zero sense and who outside FNC pays her any mind at this point?

My guess is that OFA has lots of money to spend (see the Guggenheim documentary) and is fine to spending some now. I'm just not sure Palin's word salad civil war hot mess is the thing to spend it on.

Perhaps it's just a good reminder to people that they ought to contribute now.

35 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:40:13pm

"Thank you fer cuttin' yer mullet, Levi."

36 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:40:29pm

re: #33 Interesting Times

Joe Biden also brought America the Violence Against Women act, which the Republicans are happily trying to destroy.

I'd trust Joe Biden with the keys to the Oval Office long before I'd trust any Republican, period.

But Biden was never mayor of a big town like Wasilla.

37 Lidane  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:40:34pm

re: #33 Interesting Times

Joe Biden also brought America the Violence Against Women act, which the Republicans are happily trying to destroy.

Which basically means they've given him and the Obama campaign another sledgehammer to use against them.

I'd trust Joe Biden with the keys to the Oval Office long before I'd trust any Republican, period.

That goes without saying. The GOP are a bunch of goddamn lunatics these days. I wouldn't want any of the jokers in the running now anywhere NEAR the Oval Office.

38 BrainSurfer  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:40:46pm

re: #29 Lidane

Joe Biden had almost 30 years in the Senate, including very powerful positions in Judiciary and Armed Services. I'd trust him with the keys to the Oval Office long before I'd ever trust Sarah Palin. Fuck her.

With all due respect, 30 years in politics doesn't mean shit to me. Vast majority of politicians today on both sides of the aisle appear so incompetent and self-serving that I would probably fire the majority of them if they worked for me for any length of time. I have little tolerance for incompetence, even less for bullshit, zero for those who are corrupt.

39 Mocking Jay  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:43:03pm

Too bad she can't be an advocate for special needs kids now...

40 BrainSurfer  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:43:15pm

re: #30 chan

I know I shouldn't feed you, but Biden has foreign policy chops that the entire republican presidential slate would kill for. And that's a big fucking deal ; )

Thanks, chan, for correcting my error. Had no idea it was a big fucking deal.

P.S. chops? what the hell are chops?

41 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:44:02pm

re: #14 BrainSurfer

Hate or love her - she certainly gets attention. Now as for the truth she speaks - that's in the ears of the beholder.

Not really. "Barack Obama hasn't done enough to help the economy," that's truth in the ears of the beholder. Or "Barack Obama's foreign policy has been inadequate in addressing outsourcing and the decline of American production."

"Barack Obama is hearkening back to days when we were in different classes based on the color of our skin" is...well, when you hear the tooting of the whistle, then you know who's at the throttle of the Crazytown Express.

42 elisabeth  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:44:09pm
Brian Beutler ‏ @brianbeutler

Dude, there's a movie about you on TV! RT @SenJohnMcCain: While Kofi Annan talks w/ Assad, the killing continues in Idlib.

lol

43 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:44:47pm

re: #25 BrainSurfer

I think we are still dodging bullets left and right with Joe Biden as VP. The idea the he is a heartbeat from the nuke codes is really really frightening.

You think Biden's unstable?

44 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:45:59pm

re: #29 Lidane

Joe Biden had almost 30 years in the Senate, including very powerful positions in Judiciary and Armed Services. I'd trust him with the keys to the Oval Office long before I'd ever trust Sarah Palin. Fuck her.

To be fair, I would trust about ninety percent of the people I know, including many teenagers, with the keys to the Oval before I would trust Sarah Palin.

45 elisabeth  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:46:12pm

Last one (I'm addicted to Twitter):

Zeke Miller ‏ @ZekeJMiller

There's always #gamechange RT @ChuckGrassley: Turned to history channel. No. HIstory again

46 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:46:21pm

re: #38 BrainSurfer

With all due respect, 30 years in politics doesn't mean shit to me. Vast majority of politicians today on both sides of the aisle appear so incompetent and self-serving that I would probably fire the majority of them if they worked for me for any length of time. I have little tolerance for incompetence, even less for bullshit, zero for those who are corrupt.

Soooo as a rule of thumb, you think the person with less experience is more competent? With all due respect.

47 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:46:33pm

re: #31 Learned Mother of Zion

Work with me now--they're afraid of Barack Obama turning this country into a Bizarro-world antebellum scenario, where Miz Scarlett and the Tarleton twins and Ashley Wilkes are all Black, and Mammy and all the field hands are white.

OK, so who plays Scarlett in the black version? That's the most important thing, you know.

48 chandsolo  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:46:59pm

re: #40 BrainSurfer

Thanks, chan, for correcting my error. Had no idea it was a big fucking deal.

P.S. chops? what the hell are chops?

I'm sorry you don't understand. Maybe you should look up things you don't understand or get a tutor.

49 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:47:39pm

re: #19 BrainSurfer

You are absolutely right. She is certainly talking about the president of the United States, and that kind of talk should not be condoned. The nerve of that woman is beyond the pale.

It is beyond the pale when she's lying and obfuscating her ass off.

50 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:47:52pm

re: #40 BrainSurfer

Thanks, chan, for correcting my error. Had no idea it was a big fucking deal.

P.S. chops? what the hell are chops?

Definition 4, I believe:

[Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]

51 Lidane  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:48:41pm

re: #43 SanFranciscoZionist

You think Biden's unstable?

No, they're just being a pathetic, obvious troll. I wouldn't bother.

52 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:48:42pm

re: #43 SanFranciscoZionist

You think Biden's unstable?

No, just a leftie.

53 Mocking Jay  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:50:10pm

I really don't want to believe that that part of the movie, the history lesson, really happened.

54 Lidane  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:51:10pm

re: #46 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Sooo as a rule of thumb, you think the person with less experience is more competent? With all due respect.

If that's what it takes for them to troll the thread, then yes.

55 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:51:30pm

re: #29 Lidane

I'd trust him with the keys to the Oval Office long before I'd ever trust Sarah Palin. Fuck her.

No. You do it.
/

56 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:51:55pm

re: #53 Meh.

I really don't want to believe that that part of the movie, the history lesson, really happened.

betcha it did!

57 Mocking Jay  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:52:44pm

re: #56 Stanley Sea for a while, till someone screws up

betcha it did!

Also, too.

58 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:53:42pm

re: #25 BrainSurfer

I think we are still dodging bullets left and right with Joe Biden as VP. The idea the he is a heartbeat from the nuke codes is really really frightening.

Don't let the fact that, for all his foibles, Biden has far more qualifications to step into the Oval Office (G-d forbid) than Palin has or ever will.

Palin is a grifter, out for the money and fame; she's already shown that she'll fold like a cheap table under the slightest amount of pressure. They don't call her the "half-term governor" for nothing.

59 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:53:52pm

re: #56 Stanley Sea for a while, till someone screws up

NO SPOILERS!!!
///

60 BrainSurfer  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:54:27pm

re: #46 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Sooo as a rule of thumb, you think the person with less experience is more competent? With all due respect.

I think we would both agree that a majority of people voted with that perception in mind during the last presidential election. Depends greatly on a person's competence and the circumstances, rather than any "rule of thumb", wouldn't you agree? With all due respect.

61 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:55:13pm

re: #30 chan

I know I shouldn't feed you, but Biden has foreign policy chops that the entire republican presidential slate would kill for. And that's a big fucking deal ; )

I see what you did there ;-P

62 BrainSurfer  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:55:57pm

re: #58 talon_262

Don't let the fact that, for all his foibles, Biden has far more qualifications to step into the Oval Office (G-d forbid) than Palin has or ever will.

Palin is a grifter, out for the money and fame; she's already shown that she'll fold like a cheap table under the slightest amount of pressure. They don't call her the "half-term governor" for nothing.

You used the "G-d" word here - is that allowed?

63 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:56:32pm

re: #58 talon_262

Don't let the fact that, for all his foibles, Biden has far more qualifications to step into the Oval Office (G-d forbid) than Palin has or ever will.

Not that I like Biden, but another thing to keep in mind here is that Obama is not 76 years old. Just sayin'.

64 palomino  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:56:40pm

re: #31 Learned Mother of Zion

Work with me now--they're afraid of Barack Obama turning this country into a Bizarro-world antebellum scenario, where Miz Scarlett and the Tarleton twins and Ashley Wilkes are all Black, and Mammy and all the field hands are white.

But Vladimir Putin's plane once flew over Sarah's house!

65 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:57:54pm

re: #40 BrainSurfer

Thanks, chan, for correcting my error. Had no idea it was a big fucking deal.

P.S. chops? what the hell are chops?

Chops, bonafides = experience

66 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:58:30pm

re: #62 BrainSurfer

You used the "G-d" word here - is that allowed?

Are you a psych 101 student acting the adult?

67 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:58:53pm

re: #60 BrainSurfer

I think we would both agree that a majority of people voted with that perception in mind during the last presidential election. Depends greatly on a person's competence and the circumstances, rather than any "rule of thumb", wouldn't you agree? With all due respect.

No, actually, my rule of thumb is the best person for the job means the smartest and most experienced. Senator tops mayor in my book and his schooling was miles above Palin - no comparison.

68 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:59:03pm

re: #55 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

No. You do it.
/

I wouldn't fuck her with a stolen dick...

/George Carlin

69 palomino  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:59:16pm

re: #14 BrainSurfer

Hate or love her - she certainly gets attention. Now as for the truth she speaks - that's in the ears of the beholder.

You really think Obama wants to go back to a time when he would have been a slave?

As for the "truth she speaks," why don't you give us some idea of what it is? Please, clarify for us...refine your sophisticated argument.

70 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 6:59:54pm

re: #64 palomino

But Vladimir Putin's plane once flew over Sarah's house!

You guys, I'm still trying to decide who plays Scarlett. A complete unknown would be great.

71 Mocking Jay  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:01:00pm

re: #62 BrainSurfer

You used the "G-d" word here - is that allowed?

Oh, we allow all sorts of words here! Words like "fucker." "Asshole." "Dickhead." "Shitstain."

72 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:01:22pm

re: #70 Stanley Sea for a while, till someone screws up

You guys, I'm still trying to decide who plays Scarlett. A complete unknown would be great.

Whitney Houston.

73 Lidane  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:02:46pm

re: #69 palomino

You really think Obama wants to go back to a time when he would have been a slave?

That's the part of all this that kills me. What black man would want to go back to the antebellum South? Barack Obama is not Uncle Ruckus. WTF.

Anyone advancing this argument is a weapons-grade moron. Everything about Barack Obama, especially in light of the Harvard videos that the RWNJs are bleating about, screams that he's a steady, moderate guy. Why the hell would he want to take this country back to a time when slavery was legal?

74 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:02:54pm

re: #63 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Not that I like Biden, but another thing to keep in mind here is that Obama is not 76 years old. Just sayin'.

That's true, and the same concerns were made about McCain as well.

The presidency is a meat grinder that ages people before their time, as we've seen quite a few times before.

75 Kragar  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:02:57pm

Santorum: With economy improving, foreign policy may be dominant issue

Yeah, because the GOP is in a perfect position to capitalize on their track record of pissing away billions on 2 wars and not getting Bin Laden.

76 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:03:05pm

re: #68 talon_262

Based on looks alone, I probably would. But as soon as that mouth opens, gushing out that pablum, I'm out.

77 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:03:34pm

re: #72 b_sharp

can't upding.

78 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:03:50pm

re: #68 talon_262

I wouldn't fuck her with a stolen dick...

/George Carlin Richard Pryor

/pedantic

=D

79 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:04:12pm

re: #74 talon_262

That's true, and the same concerns were made about McCain as well.

Well, that was my point re: picking a VPOTUS. McCain is 76.

80 Mocking Jay  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:05:42pm

Heehee. "Putin rears his head." *giggles*

81 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:06:05pm

re: #62 BrainSurfer

You used the "G-d" word here - is that allowed?

Oh that's right. You and your Bible thumping, knuckle-draggin, stalker buddies think we hate "G-d" at LGF. Another of the many delusions you believe.

82 BrainSurfer  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:06:44pm

re: #65 talon_262

Chops, bonafides = experience

Ah man, I was afraid of that. I had a mental picture of foreign policy pork chops when I read your post, and I enjoyed the image. Now that you mean simply re: #67 Everybody Look at Your Hands

No, actually, my rule of thumb is the best person for the job means the smartest and most experienced. Senator tops mayor in my book and his schooling was miles above Palin - no comparison.

Sounds good in writing, not always true in real life.

83 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:06:47pm

re: #75 Kragar

Santorum: With economy improving, foreign policy may be dominant issue

Yeah, because the GOP is in a perfect position to capitalize on their track record of pissing away billions on 2 wars and not getting Bin Laden.

He must think that "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran" is what's gonna bring people to the polls.

84 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:07:48pm

re: #73 Lidane

That's the part of all this that kills me. What black man would want to go back to the antebellum South? Barack Obama is not Uncle Ruckus. WTF.

Anyone advancing this argument is a weapons-grade moron. Everything about Barack Obama, especially in light of the Harvard videos that the RWNJs are bleating about, screams that he's a steady, moderate guy. Why the hell would he want to take this country back to a time when slavery was legal?

I picture her studio with flash cards strung like Tibetan prayer flags with key words on each one.

85 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:08:00pm

re: #80 Meh.

Shut up! Unlike Beetlejuice, when you say Putin's name three times, Sergey shows up. Now, we don't want that, do we?
/

86 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:10:17pm

re: #72 b_sharp

Not cool...

87 palomino  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:11:08pm

re: #82 BrainSurfer

Ah man, I was afraid of that. I had a mental picture of foreign policy pork chops when I read your post, and I enjoyed the image. Now that you mean simply re: #67 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Sounds good in writing, not always true in real life.

Yes, we'd be so much better off in the hands of a President Palin. She was clearly qualified for the job, cuz she "studied" TV broadcasting at Idaho Community College and was governor--for a few months--of America's largest iceberg.

88 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:11:33pm

re: #77 Stanley Sea for a while, till someone screws up

can't upding.

You might as well wish for the moon.

89 freetoken  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:11:57pm

re: #14 BrainSurfer

Now as for the truth she speaks - that's in the ears of the beholder.

Sarah Palin speaks truth sort of like I sing homilies about Krishna.

Hint: I don't sing homilies about Krishna.

90 chandsolo  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:12:04pm

Putin! Putin! Putin!

91 Interesting Times  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:12:41pm
92 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:12:58pm

re: #78 Pope Ron Polyp XXXVII

/pedantic

=D

Carlin cribbed that joke from Pryor? Never knew that, but the joke works with either one of them doing it (Carlin's version was about Marilyn Quayle).

93 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:13:17pm

re: #40 BrainSurfer

Thanks, chan, for correcting my error. Had no idea it was a big fucking deal.

P.S. chops? what the hell are chops?

Where are you from? I've noticed that you miss common words/phrases/nuances frequently.

94 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:14:15pm

re: #93 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

Where are you from? I've noticed that you miss common words/phrases/nuances frequently.

My guess is they're not a native English speaker (or have adopted an online persona that isn't).

95 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:14:25pm

Just got the "Quicksave every 2 seconds" part of Mothership Zeta.

96 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:14:58pm

re: #92 talon_262

I'd bet that joke is older than both of them combined.

97 palomino  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:15:04pm

re: #93 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

Where are you from? I've noticed that you miss common words/phrases/nuances frequently.

He's from the land of Bubbles, when he's not there he lives up his own ass. Not a very bright guy, not even a moderately effective troll.

98 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:15:04pm

re: #95 ProGunLiberal

Just got the "Quicksave every 2 seconds" part of Mothership Zeta.

One of my favorites.

99 chandsolo  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:15:09pm

re: #93 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

FWIW, my wife didn't understand either. Shrug. Sometimes people don't get me.

100 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:15:23pm

pourmecoffee ‏ @pourmecoffee

It turns out eHarmony vets about 28 more dimensions of your creepy date than McCain did Palin. #gamechange

101 BrainSurfer  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:15:29pm

re: #71 Meh.

Oh, we allow all sorts of words here! Words like "fucker." "Asshole." "Dickhead." "Shitstain."

re: #81 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Oh that's right. You and your Bible thumping, knuckle-draggin, stalker buddies think we hate "G-d" at LGF. Another of the many delusions you believe.

Glad to know this board is open to all language....and God is loved. Must be a hell of lot of confession-going every Saturday for all of us Lizards here.

102 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:15:41pm

re: #86 talon_262

Not cool...

I was trying to make a point, that the fear of role reversal is as imaginary as a dead person playing a role in a movie.

It was in bad taste.

I apologize for being a jerk.

103 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:16:45pm

re: #98 Targetpractice

Except for the glitch where 4/5ths of the quest will randomly complete for no reason at all.

That pisses me off.

Hence the quicksaving.

104 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:16:56pm

re: #101 BrainSurfer

re: #81 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Glad to know this board is open to all language...and God is loved. Must be a hell of lot of confession-going every Saturday for all of us Lizards here.

"Forgive me Father, for I have sinned. It's been...never since my last confession..."

105 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:17:29pm

re: #102 b_sharp

Well you certainly made me angry. I'm not buying any more... wait, what was it that you sell?

106 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:17:53pm

re: #102 b_sharp

No jerk. all else, ya.

107 chandsolo  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:18:01pm

re: #101 BrainSurfer

re: #81 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Glad to know this board is open to all language...and God is loved. Must be a hell of lot of confession-going every Saturday for all of us Lizards here.

I got myself ordained a few years back. Now I just confess to myself, though I fear my confessor is too judgmental.

108 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:18:08pm

re: #105 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Well you certainly made me angry. I'm not buying any more... wait, what was it that you sell?

Rubber bananas.

109 palomino  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:18:35pm

re: #101 BrainSurfer

re: #81 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Glad to know this board is open to all language...and God is loved. Must be a hell of lot of confession-going every Saturday for all of us Lizards here.

What epoch in history do you reside in? People going to confession for saying "dickhead?" Uhh, it ain't your great grandpappy's country any more.

110 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:19:05pm

Nah, I don't go to confession. I figure whatever I do is between me and God, no need to involve a third party. Fewer chances I'll get caught that way.

/

111 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:19:57pm

re: #108 b_sharp

AW FUCK! I can't live without those!!! Gimmie something else I can boycott. Do you sell dog turds? I can certainly live without dog turds.

Man, I hope you sell dog turds.

112 Kragar  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:20:29pm

re: #101 BrainSurfer

re: #81 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Glad to know this board is open to all language...and God is loved. Must be a hell of lot of confession-going every Saturday for all of us Lizards here.

I confess, you're a dick.

113 BrainSurfer  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:20:44pm

re: #94 talon_262

My guess is they're not a native English speaker (or have adopted an online persona that isn't).

Grammar check.

114 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:20:57pm

Great. First the boring OWS trolling this morning. Then the boycott Rush concern trolling. Now we have Brainsurfer who has returned from his mothership.

115 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:21:04pm

re: #62 BrainSurfer

You used the "G-d" word here - is that allowed?

Baruch Hashem, yes.

116 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:21:08pm

re: #92 talon_262

Carlin cribbed that joke from Pryor? Never knew that, but the joke works with either one of them doing it (Carlin's version was about Marilyn Quayle).

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure it was in one of Pryor's bits about the wino & the junkie.

117 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:21:38pm

re: #114 Gus

Great. First the boring OWS trolling this morning. Then the beating boycott Rush concern trolling. Now we have Brainsurfer who has returned from his mothership.

I think we can safely conclude there's no intelligent life out there.

118 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:22:11pm

re: #70 Stanley Sea for a while, till someone screws up

You guys, I'm still trying to decide who plays Scarlett. A complete unknown would be great.

One of these girls?

[Link: www.essence.com...]

119 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:22:13pm

re: #117 Targetpractice

I think we can safely conclude there's no intelligent life out there.

Certainly not today.

120 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:22:44pm

re: #70 Stanley Sea for a while, till someone screws up

You guys, I'm still trying to decide who plays Scarlett. A complete unknown would be great.

Won't matter. Since it will be a Muslim production she'll be in a full burqa the entire time.

121 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:22:54pm

re: #101 BrainSurfer

re: #81 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Glad to know this board is open to all language...and God is loved. Must be a hell of lot of confession-going every Saturday for all of us Lizards here.

All language yes, but not all usages of language.
As to gods, each to his own, as long as it remains their own.

One day you may understand.

122 palomino  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:23:00pm

re: #113 BrainSurfer

Grammar check.

Pathetic moron check? Yes, everyone, we have a "winner."

123 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:24:16pm

re: #122 palomino

Pathetic moron check? Yes, everyone, we have a "winner."

Don't you mean "WINNAR"?

///

124 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:25:26pm

re: #111 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

AW FUCK! I can't live without those!!! Gimmie something else I can boycott. Do you sell dog turds? I can certainly live without dog turds.

Man, I hope you sell dog turds.

We used to, but the market went to shit.

125 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:26:16pm

re: #121 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

All language yes, but not all usages of language.
As to gods, each to his own, as long as it remains their own.

One day you may understand.

***DISGUSTING 'JOKE' WARNING***

My god comes in a can. It's really gross and his aim sucks.

/let the groaning begin

126 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:26:37pm

re: #101 BrainSurfer

re: #81 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Glad to know this board is open to all language...and God is loved. Must be a hell of lot of confession-going every Saturday for all of us Lizards here.

Saturday night's alright for fightin, not confessing.

127 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:26:55pm

re: #124 b_sharp

Yeah, it really went to the dogs.

128 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:27:46pm

You know that sound Lurch used to make?

129 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:28:23pm

re: #128 Gus

You know that sound Lurch used to make?

Uuuhhhhh...

130 BrainSurfer  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:28:30pm

Boy, did this thread digress....where were we?
Oh yes, Palin, Sarah Palin. What a wonderful delightful woman.

She is like the red flashing light is to an epileptic. Brings out totally freaking irrational behavior, brainspastic seisures. Why the hell don't people simply ignore her?

131 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:28:42pm

re: #128 Gus

Also the sound my god makes when, you know.

/Sorry. Couldn't resist.

132 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:28:47pm

re: #24 elisabeth

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. :)

I just don't see her as being particularly relevant any more and there are more worthwhile sources from which to excite the base ~ Santorum, who is still running for POTUS, is one. The war on women is another. Palin is a 2008 has-been. But that's just me and I'm willing to concede I might be wrong. :)

The worse thing the Obama campaign could do would be to single out any of the republican candidates for attention in an ad. Mentioning Santorum would only help his campaign by giving him free air time and starting the wingnut meme that Obama was "afraid" of him (see every online comment about Sarah Palin from the Right ever).

The Obama campaign is quite content to sit on the sidelines and watch the Republicans candidates smear and slander each other, as long as they continue to destroy each others credibility/reputation there is no earthly reason for them to intervene. In fact doing so would only favor the person the ad was supposed to be against, for now they are just going to be stuck with attacking the periphery of loonyville as they did here.

133 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:28:55pm

re: #125 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

That took me four reads, then I groaned.

134 Mocking Jay  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:29:35pm

Hm. I think they should've just gotten an actor for Biden. This technique feels too fake to me.

135 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:29:47pm
136 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:29:52pm

re: #130 BrainSurfer

Boy, did this thread digress...where were we?
Oh yes, Palin, Sarah Palin. What a wonderful delightful woman.

She is like the red flashing light is to an epileptic. Brings out totally freaking irrational behavior, brainspastic seisures. Why the hell don't people simply ignore her?

We pretend she is you.

137 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:29:53pm

re: #130 BrainSurfer

Boy, did this thread digress...where were we?
Oh yes, Palin, Sarah Palin. What a wonderful delightful woman.

She is like the red flashing light is to an epileptic. Brings out totally freaking irrational behavior, brainspastic seisures. Why the hell don't people simply ignore her?

Oh please. If Sarah was a Democrat, ya'll be all over it.

138 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:30:25pm

Okay we don't have the Lounge lately, (loved those) but we are drinking Tito's vodka and listening to Gary Clark Jr. Paged the music...

139 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:30:37pm

re: #130 BrainSurfer

Boy, did this thread digress...where were we?
Oh yes, Palin, Sarah Palin. What a wonderful delightful woman.

She is like the red flashing light is to an epileptic. Brings out totally freaking irrational behavior, brainspastic seisures. Why the hell don't people simply ignore her?

Here's a better idea. Why the hell don't you ignore us? That would be a lot simpler. Instead of needing to wait for over two dozen people to ignore Sawah Pawin all we have to do is wait for your to ignore us! See. Just that simple and all it takes is one person.

140 Obdicut  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:30:39pm

You know, I'm white. Well, Jewish. Half-Jewish, half-Scandinavian. Whatever.

I've never been afraid for a single freaking instance that black people want to take revenge on white people for the centuries of oppression. First, there's the fact that most black people I've met who are political activists work on stuff like, oh, attacking the still-present racism in the justice system.

Then there's the whole thing where black people are a pretty small minority in the US, and could never actually seize power without some bizarre SyFy Channel thingy going on.

A lot of conservatives like to blame liberals for acting out of white guilt. I don't really feel any guilt towards black people. I feel like I'm privileged by virtue of being white in many circumstances, but that doesn't make me feel guilty, just responsible to try to improve that situation and not rely on privilege.

However, the way that many conservatives fear and conspiracy-monger about blacks, especially blacks with political power, seems to indicate to me a lot of very deep-seated guilt. This speech by Palin is a perfect example-- she's implicitly acknowledging that white society has committed terrible offenses against blacks, and an admission of fear from that guilty conscience.

141 Obdicut  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:32:06pm

re: #130 BrainSurfer

Boy, did this thread digress...where were we?
Oh yes, Palin, Sarah Palin. What a wonderful delightful woman.

She is like the red flashing light is to an epileptic. Brings out totally freaking irrational behavior, brainspastic seisures. Why the hell don't people simply ignore her?

Why don't you?

142 palomino  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:32:16pm

re: #130 BrainSurfer

Boy, did this thread digress...where were we?
Oh yes, Palin, Sarah Palin. What a wonderful delightful woman.

She is like the red flashing light is to an epileptic. Brings out totally freaking irrational behavior, brainspastic seisures. Why the hell don't people simply ignore her?

Hmm, maybe because the tea party and the media are so infatuated with her that she's everywhere. Everywhere spouting nonsense--in this case, that the prez wants to go back to a time when he would have been a slave.

143 freetoken  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:32:18pm

re: #140 Obdicut

A lot of conservatives like to blame liberals for acting out of white guilt.

I've always just wrote that off to projection.

144 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:32:26pm

re: #114 Gus

Great. First the boring OWS trolling this morning. Then the boycott Rush concern trolling. Now we have Brainsurfer who has returned from his mothership.

I would like real debate, instead of troll droppings.

The droppers need to argue, intelligently, their points.

145 bubba zanetti  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:33:09pm

re: #70 Stanley Sea for a while, till someone screws up

You guys, I'm still trying to decide who plays Scarlett. A complete unknown would be great.

If it's Nicki Minaj I'll stick around.

146 freetoken  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:33:47pm

re: #130 BrainSurfer

She is like the red flashing light is to an epileptic.

As a former beauty queen she knows that fame is as fleeting as her once nubility, and that she has to put on a show to get the attention she so desperately seeks.

147 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:35:12pm

re: #130 BrainSurfer

Boy, did this thread digress...where were we?
Oh yes, Palin, Sarah Palin. What a wonderful delightful woman.

She is like the red flashing light is to an epileptic. Brings out totally freaking irrational behavior, brainspastic seisures. Why the hell don't people simply ignore her?

She isn't the problem, it's the marks who believe in her who can pose serious problems.

148 chandsolo  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:35:40pm

re: #143 freetoken

It's always projection. I wish they would chose another pathetic defense mechanism to present just to change things up every so often.

149 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:35:43pm

re: #29 Lidane

Joe Biden had almost 30 years in the Senate, including very powerful positions in Judiciary and Armed Services. I'd trust him with the keys to the Oval Office long before I'd ever trust Sarah Palin. Fuck her.

Not even with brain surfer's apendage. Ewww!

150 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:36:57pm

re: #146 freetoken

As a former beauty queen she knows that fame is as fleeting as her once nubility, and that she has to put on a show to get the attention she so desperately seeks.

Did you really use the word nubility?

Updings.

151 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:37:04pm

You gotta love these guys like Brain-Suffer. Sarah Palin is making these wild conspiracy theories about our president and trying to affect foreign and domestic policy in the United State on a daily basis. Influencing the direction this country is going and we're supposed to ignore her. Seriously? We're just supposed to "mind our own business" and let this idiot go unchecked?

152 Ming  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:38:27pm

I find the Obama ad (the video in this blog post, featuring Sarah Palin) uncomfortable to watch. But it's key to understanding an important part of politics in America today.

In a way, the video is a distillation of many LGF posts about the right-wing. The LGF posts are generally pleasant to read. It's like a comedy, at times. Limbaugh said what? 28 times? Sometimes, LGF can be genuinely entertaining (and I don't mean to take anything away from its value as news).

The video of Sarah Palin is different. There are mentally-ill people who really reach out and grab you, psychologically. The term (in the context of psychotherapy) is countertransference. Palin makes sure that she has your attention. Not only her words, but the feelings behind them.

So I've now concluded that I'm glad that the Obama campaign released this video of Palin, despite my earlier reservations. Whether Obama wins or loses in November 2012, his campaign is saying: LOOK at this. Is THIS what you aspire to? Is this what you ADMIRE? Is THIS how you want to live as an adult? Is this what you wish for AMERICA? Whether Obama wins or loses, the message comes through: THIS is the choice America faces in 2012.

153 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:39:09pm

re: #150 b_sharp

Did you really use the word nubility?

Updings.

Maybe he meant nobility?

154 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:39:43pm

re: #151 Gus

You gotta love these guys like Brain-Suffer. Sarah Palin is making these wild conspiracy theories about our president and trying to affect foreign and domestic policy in the United State on a daily basis. Influencing the direction this country is going and we're supposed to ignore her. Seriously? We're just supposed to "mind our own business" and let this idiot go unchecked?

Dangerous propaganda, even if disseminated by a loon needs to be countered, especially in this age of instant information.

155 ReamWorks SKG  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:39:58pm

Maybe LGF can get a good deal on advertising buy on EIB's Limbaugh show!

I suspect that he has more listeners than ever, so, in all seriousness, prospective advertisers will see the "value" and replace the ones he's lost. However, he may lose the more respectable ones and be filled with bankruptcy repair, overpriced gold buying scams, accident lawyers, etc.

156 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:40:36pm

And the only reason that Palin, Beck and the other weirdos are always complaining about Obama bringing back racism is because Obama brings out their latent inner-racism they've been trying to hid all these years. They're effectively arguing that "they wouldn't be racist if there weren't any black people around."

157 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:40:58pm

re: #153 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

Maybe he meant nobility?

No, I'm sure it was nubile, not noble that was intended, although it makes a good play on the word nobility.

158 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:41:17pm

re: #135 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Heh.

what?

159 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:41:42pm

re: #156 Gus

And the only reason that Palin, Beck and the other weirdos are always complaining about Obama bringing back racism is because Obama brings out their latent inner-racism they've been trying to hid all these years. They're effectively arguing that "they wouldn't be racist if there weren't any black people around."

This is probably not true, looking at how anti-Semitism has persisted in nations that haven't had any Jews for over sixty years.

160 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:42:06pm

re: #155 ReamWorks, SKG (fka Reuven)

Maybe LGF can get a good deal on advertising buy on EIB's Limbaugh show!

I suspect that he has more listeners than ever, so, in all seriousness, prospective advertisers will see the "value" and replace the ones he's lost. However, he may lose the more respectable ones and be filled with bankruptcy repair, overpriced gold buying scams, accident lawyers, etc.

The Glenn Beck folks say otherwise, but I find it curious that he was off the air shortly after his advertisers split.

161 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:42:19pm

re: #155 ReamWorks, SKG (fka Reuven)

Maybe LGF can get a good deal on advertising buy on EIB's Limbaugh show!

I suspect that he has more listeners than ever, so, in all seriousness, prospective advertisers will see the "value" and replace the ones he's lost. However, he may lose the more respectable ones and be filled with bankruptcy repair, overpriced gold buying scams, accident lawyers, etc.

Pretty much all the stuff that ended up on Beck's show before Fox gave him his walkin' papers.

162 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:42:37pm

re: #154 b_sharp

Dangerous propaganda, even if disseminated by a loon needs to be countered, especially in this age of instant information.

Heck that air head "Joe da Plumber" is running for congress. Seriously? They ask for his opinion on foreign policy on Fox News. He traveled to Israel to affect policy. That dipity-do half-plumber playing policy wonk and running for congress.

163 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:43:35pm

re: #140 Obdicut

You provided our prime time. gracias.

164 Amory Blaine  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:44:08pm

Half plumber? He only fixes the cold side?

165 ReamWorks SKG  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:44:19pm

Is she wearing a Star of David? I find that very offensive.

166 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:44:29pm

re: #155 ReamWorks, SKG (fka Reuven)

Maybe LGF can get a good deal on some advertising inventory on EIB's Limbaugh show!

I suspect that he has more listeners than ever, so, in all seriousness, prospective advertisers will see the "value" and replace the ones he's lost. However, he may lose the more respectable ones and be filled with bankruptcy repair, overpriced gold buying scams, accident lawyers, etc.

I wonder what it would cost for a minute during Limbaugh to plug LGF, perhaps with a post of the day?

Could be fun. We could take a collection.

167 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:44:46pm

re: #159 SanFranciscoZionist

This is probably not true, looking at how anti-Semitism has persisted in nations that haven't had any Jews for over sixty years.

They want Obama out because he brings out the worst of them because it comes easy to them. It's like white flight.

168 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:45:07pm

re: #164 Amory Blaine

Half plumber? He only fixes the cold side?

He was never licensed.

169 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:45:20pm

re: #156 Gus

And the only reason that Palin, Beck and the other weirdos are always complaining about Obama bringing back racism is because Obama brings out their latent inner-racism they've been trying to hid all these years. They're effectively arguing that "they wouldn't be racist if there weren't any black people around."

There is a rhetorical tactic where an attack against an opponent is made by projecting negative actions before your opponent identifies them in you.

The far right has done this so often, they believe it as truth.

170 BrainSurfer  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:45:26pm

re: #151 Gus

You gotta love these guys like Brain-Suffer. Sarah Palin is making these wild conspiracy theories about our president and trying to affect foreign and domestic policy in the United State on a daily basis. Influencing the direction this country is going and we're supposed to ignore her. Seriously? We're just supposed to "mind our own business" and let this idiot go unchecked?

Definitely can't let it go unchecked, as the media assuredly does not (too much riveting material, too great a potential revenue stream too ignore). Mainstream media reminds me of those hyena's in The Lion King - just substitute "Sarah Palin" for "Mufasa", "Republicans' for "lions"

171 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:45:44pm

re: #165 ReamWorks, SKG (fka Reuven)

Is she wearing a Star of David? I find that very offensive.

It's a prop.

172 Amory Blaine  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:46:06pm

re: #168 Gus

So I can call myself a gynecologist. BTW I don't have a license either. ;)

173 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:46:45pm

re: #172 Amory Blaine

So I can call myself a gynecologist. BTW I don't have a license either. ;)

For what?

174 Amory Blaine  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:47:35pm

To practice medicine.

175 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:47:57pm

re: #170 BrainSurfer

Definitely can't let it go unchecked, as the media assuredly does not (too much riveting material, too great a potential revenue stream too ignore). Mainstream media reminds me of those hyena's in The Lion King - just substitute "Sarah Palin" for "Mufasa"

[Embedded content]

Da media! Ooga booga! Hey, why don't you ask Fox News to stop shoving this moron in front of our face all the time.

176 Achilles Tang  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:48:06pm

re: #168 Gus

He was never licensed.

Seriously? Can you did up some non permitted (aka illegal) jobs he has done? :=)

177 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:48:26pm

re: #171 Gus

It's a prop.

Palin, or the star?

178 ReamWorks SKG  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:48:31pm

re: #172 Amory Blaine

So I can call myself a gynecologist. BTW I don't have a license either. ;)

Was this you?

[Link: www.thesmokinggun.com...]

179 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:48:35pm

re: #174 Amory Blaine

To practice medicine.

Thwack! Yeah.

180 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:49:27pm

re: #176 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

Seriously? Can you did up some non permitted (aka illegal) jobs he has done? :=)

God. We went through that in 2008. He's a big ol' faker and a dumb-ass.

181 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:49:33pm

re: #165 ReamWorks, SKG (fka Reuven)

Is she wearing a Star of David? I find that very offensive.

She does, often.

182 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:50:07pm

Damn. Talk about déjà vu with all of this.

183 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:51:20pm

re: #182 Gus

Damn. Talk about déjà vu with all of this.

That's all they've got.

184 BrainSurfer  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:52:04pm

re: #175 Gus

Da media! Ooga booga! Hey, why don't you ask Fox News to stop shoving this moron in front of our face all the time.

Uh... isn't that an "official Obama campaign ad" production shoving Mrs. Palin in front of your face? Speak to the hand.

185 Obdicut  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:52:31pm

re: #165 ReamWorks, SKG (fka Reuven)

Is she wearing a Star of David? I find that very offensive.

Star of David is the GOP version of a figleaf.

186 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:52:38pm

re: #165 ReamWorks, SKG (fka Reuven)

Is she wearing a Star of David? I find that very offensive.

She does that a lot.

187 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:52:58pm

re: #181 Stanley Sea for a while, till someone screws up

She does, often.

Don't worry. Someone will make an issue out of it. Ergo, "look they're criticizing Sawah Pawin and she's wearing the Star of David, therefore they hate Jews!" and blah, blah, blah. The usual low-IQ shit.

188 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:53:26pm

re: #184 BrainSurfer

Uh... isn't that an "official Obama campaign ad" production shoving Mrs. Palin in front of your face? Speak to the hand.

I'm responding to your complaining genius cakes.

189 freetoken  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:53:34pm

re: #156 Gus

Totally agree.

Which, as I've noted many times before, is why I changed my avatar back in 2008. It became rather clear that this guy, Barrack Hussein Obama, had through no action of his own tapped into some latent pool of ugliness that was even larger than what I thought existed. It was just lying there waiting to brought out to the surface.

For too many years the resentment had been building, among the old paleo-conservative crowd, about how the world had changed around them. From the neo-confederates to the conspiratorial minded survivalists, they really, really didn't like how America had been changing post WWII, but especially after 1965.

I do think it is necessary, upon reflection, that we as a society go through this. Masks are falling and true intentions surfacing.

Mixing in with this brew is the new media and the high tech marketing systems that seem to ever be increasing in their efficiency in extracting money from, as many call them, the "marks". We all are manipulatable, some more than others, but it is how billions of dollars are made on Madison Ave.

Other countries have their analogous problems and are dealing with the changes of the 21st century. Here in America it seems our self-image is one of our stumbling blocks, and the Sarah Palins and David Bartons of this country are trying hard to prop up an artificial image of what we were and what we are, and propose an unrealistic idea of what we should become.

In truth, we are a polyglot of a nation even though our English heritage stands out as the dominant strain, a mongrel society which is addicted to high speeds, high energy, beauty, and of course power.

As the richest nation in history we've been used to the ability to spend our way out of some of the common problems of other nations, and that might be true of the racism problem.

We'll see as this century marches on.

190 Mocking Jay  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:54:04pm

Oh, a Limbaugh dig.

191 Interesting Times  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:54:21pm
192 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:54:49pm

re: #41 SanFranciscoZionist

Not really. "Barack Obama hasn't done enough to help the economy," that's truth in the ears of the beholder. Or "Barack Obama's foreign policy has been inadequate in addressing outsourcing and the decline of American production."

"Barack Obama is hearkening back to days when we were in different classes based on the color of our skin" is...well, when you hear the tooting of the whistle, then you know who's at the throttle of the Crazytown Express.

Thanks for this. It gives me an idea the crazy The Sarah is spewing without actually having to hear her.

193 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:55:54pm

re: #184 BrainSurfer

Go Away Gordon.

194 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:56:52pm

Just got to the Weapons Lab.

Let's see how many times Fallout 3 craps itself.

195 BrainSurfer  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:56:59pm

re: #193 Dark_Falcon

Go Away Gordon.

OK. Night!

196 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:59:24pm

re: #187 Gus

Don't worry. Someone will make an issue out of it. Ergo, "look they're criticizing Sawah Pawin and she's wearing the Star of David, therefore they hate Jews!" and blah, blah, blah. The usual low-IQ shit.

A Face in the Crowd. Andy Griffith. You all know about that film? Sister Sarah back in the day.

We have seen the demagogue before, but we fail to remember.

197 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 7:59:42pm

re: #184 BrainSurfer

Uh... isn't that an "official Obama campaign ad" production shoving Mrs. Palin in front of your face? Speak to the hand.

How many times has 'The Palin' been put out there by Fox?

198 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:01:56pm

re: #189 freetoken

Which, as I've noted many times before, is why I changed my avatar back in 2008. It became rather clear that this guy, Barrack Hussein Obama, had through no action of his own tapped into some latent pool of ugliness that was even larger than what I thought existed. It was just lying there waiting to brought out to the surface.

For too many years the resentment had been building, among the old paleo-conservative crowd, about how the world had changed around them. From the neo-confederates to the conspiratorial minded survivalists, they really, really didn't like how America had been changing post WWII, but especially after 1965.

I'm beginning to see, sadly, too, that you can say these things if you're white, but if you're black, they'll call you a supremacist.

199 freetoken  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:02:18pm

re: #196 Stanley Sea for a while, till someone screws up

A Face in the Crowd. Andy Griffith.

Just took a quick view of it.

I do think that in Palin's case it is more the beauty queen and the need for attention that shapes the nature of her presentation (or "message"). The idea of being a callous manipulator of audiences (as in that movie) plays a role, but I do think Palin believes more of the stuff that she spouts, because she has to.

200 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:02:40pm

re: #170 BrainSurfer

Definitely can't let it go unchecked, as the media assuredly does not (too much riveting material, too great a potential revenue stream too ignore). Mainstream media reminds me of those hyena's in The Lion King - just substitute "Sarah Palin" for "Mufasa", "Republicans' for "lions"

[Embedded content]

Sarah Palin, Queen of the Jungle?

I thought she was the Queen of the Wild Frontier.

201 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:02:53pm

re: #193 Dark_Falcon

Go Away Gordon.

No way! LOL

202 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:04:05pm

re: #176 Blue Spot Vlamingii Tang

Seriously? Can you did up some non permitted (aka illegal) jobs he has done? :=)

I think he was working in plumbing, for a guy who had a license and could legally hire him.

That was back when, though. I have no idea what he's been doing since.

He could even be licensed plumber by this time, for all I know.

203 Renaissance_Man  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:04:46pm

re: #175 Gus

Da media! Ooga booga! Hey, why don't you ask Fox News to stop shoving this moron in front of our face all the time.

Actually, I'm in agreement on that one. The 'media' in general is all too ready to publicise the latest Sarah Palin drivel, or the latest Limbaugh drivel, or Hannity, or whoever. It feeds the artificial 'some say...' construction, where everything can be painted as a disagreement of opinion between two sides. And when 'one side' just has to have Sarah Palin mutter something incoherent to have the entire news media uncritically report it as a valid point of view to be argued over to the endless delight of ratings analysts everywhere... well, I agree, the Lion King analogy has a point.

Now, if Sarah Palin and FOX in general were reported in the media as the fictitious constructs they actually are, to be related to the human interest section or the Arts page of the NYT, I'd be much more interested. Sure, that's probably not what BrainSurfer meant (it has the smack of the 'all you lefties are scared of her' argument), but I think there's a point there.

204 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:05:37pm

re: #185 Obdicut

Star of David is the GOP version of a figleaf.

Do others do it? Besides Dr. Laura, who I assume gave hers up when she decided not to be Jewish any more.

205 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:05:44pm

re: #202 SanFranciscoZionist

I think he was working in plumbing, for a guy who had a license and could legally hire him.

That was back when, though. I have no idea what he's been doing since.

He could even be licensed plumber by this time, for all I know.

If so that's great. He's probably a great plumber. He should stick with plumbing.

206 jamesfirecat  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:07:09pm

re: #14 BrainSurfer

Hate or love her - she certainly gets attention. Now as for the truth she speaks - that's in the ears of the beholder.

No, no it really isn't, you see there is this thing called objective reality, you may have heard of it?

207 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:07:25pm

re: #199 freetoken

Freetoken, your assignment for tomorrow is to watch "Face in the Crowd"

I probably saw it only 4 years ago. It is a great movie on it's own, but the Father Coughlin/Rush Limbaugh/Sister Sarah parallels are, er, interesting.

208 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:07:42pm

re: #202 SanFranciscoZionist

I think he was working in plumbing, for a guy who had a license and could legally hire him.

That was back when, though. I have no idea what he's been doing since.

He could even be licensed plumber by this time, for all I know.

Girl, catch up! He won the GOP primary in Ohio.

Yes, I wish I was kidding.

[Link: www.csmonitor.com...]

209 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:08:29pm

re: #158 Stanley Sea for a while, till someone screws up

It's what I think of whenever there are Palin fans/apologists about.

210 jaunte  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:08:38pm
211 Interesting Times  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:08:56pm
212 studioTech  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:10:01pm

re: #204 SanFranciscoZionist

Has to do with Revelations, end-times, rebuilding the temple, etc. The main reason the evangelicals are pro-Isreal. Pastor Hagee, et al.

213 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:10:10pm

They put Palin in the ad because she is the weakest link.

214 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:11:45pm

re: #185 Obdicut

Star of David is the GOP version of a figleaf.

Beard.

215 Mocking Jay  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:11:52pm

re: #213 Iwouldprefernotto

They put Palin in the add because she is the weakest link.

Also.

216 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:11:57pm

re: #206 jamesfirecat

No, no it really isn't, you see there is this thing called objective reality, you may have heard of it?

The Huddled Wingnuttery loves postmodernism. If it seems like BS is ignoring post content and responding to straw men, it's only because you lack a sufficiently advancing understanding of post-Lacanian narrative structure.

217 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:12:36pm

re: #208 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Girl, catch up! He won the GOP primary in Ohio.

Yes, I wish I was kidding.

[Link: www.csmonitor.com...]

You mean that wasn't something I imagined on the edge of sleep...?

But he has to take on Kaptur, doesn't he?

218 Obdicut  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:12:41pm

re: #204 SanFranciscoZionist

I more meant the GOP tendency to stick "Judeo" in front of Christian and talk about Israel a lot than literal Star of David wearing.

219 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:13:16pm

re: #203 Renaissance_Man

The reality is that we have to pay attention to her. I don't watch TV, cable or otherwise and I'm still informed of her latest movements. She's almost impossible to miss at this point because of her mass exposure. She had her own reality show; is mentioned on Twitter; blogs; etc. All of this is almost like saying one has to either a) ignore her or b) it's "the media's fault". But at fault for what if most of the time it's reportage. She spoke at CPAC which was barely televised yet I suffered through it only because I felt I had to listen to her. Almost lost my hearing over that. Heck, people don't ignore me and I'm just some commentator on LGF who's being watched by lurkers -- including cutting and pasting as well as screen shots of my comments.

220 Ming  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:13:22pm

re: #165 ReamWorks, SKG (fka Reuven)

Is she wearing a Star of David? I find that very offensive.

By wearing the Star of David, she may be trying to undo the damage from her memorable video in January 2011, when she used the term "blood libel". That was the video where she talked about the Tucson shootings.

221 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:14:19pm

re: #217 SanFranciscoZionist

You mean that wasn't something I imagined on the edge of sleep...?

But he has to take on Kaptur, doesn't he?

Yes. He's not likely to win, but he got farther than anyone thought he could.

222 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:14:37pm

re: #215 Meh.

Also.

So? Your opinion on the movie?

223 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:14:47pm

re: #221 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Yes. He's not likely to win, but he got farther than anyone thought he could.

Certainly farther than *I* thought he could.

224 teresa  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:15:04pm

Geez I hadn't seen that video yet. Wow, just wow, she is one very angry woman.
What solutions do Republicans offer for our times now, do they have a solution to economic inequality? Do they attempt to even address those issues? No, they live in the lie that the President is weak and he hates our way of life. Palin, not unlike Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck and Levin knows what sells among those Fox viewers and talk radio listeners and what sells is hate. The problem for them is the market for hate is shrinking. In fact I think that most people are tired of having to hear that hate let alone allow it to continue to take over our politics.
Things could have been so much different if John McCain had cared more about this country. He unleashed a ball of incoherent anger on the nation, and she is more than willing to do whatever it takes, say whatever she can to paint this President as somehow not American, not one of us. It is a shame that is how little he thought of Americans.
Sheesh, thanks McCain for unleashing the angry queen of all grifters on the country, yeah that is just what we needed to make our politics better.
Sigh.

225 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:15:28pm

re: #220 Ming

By wearing the Star of David, she may be trying to undo the damage from her memorable video in January 2011, when she used the term "blood libel". That was the video where she talked about the Tucson shootings.

No she always wears them to show her support for Israel. A lot of evangelicals do that. She even had a big Israeli flag in her office as governor.

226 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:15:46pm

re: #212 studioTech

Has to do with Revelations, end-times, rebuilding the temple, etc. The main reason the evangelicals are pro-Isreal. Pastor Hagee, et al.

I get the point, I just never see other Republicans who aren't Jews wearing them.

227 Kragar  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:16:38pm

re: #225 moderatelyradicalliberal

No she always wears them to show her support for Israel. A lot of evangelicals do that. She even had a big Israeli flag in her office as governor.

"We love that the nation of Israel exists so it can be destroyed in accordance with our beliefs."

228 Mocking Jay  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:16:50pm

re: #222 Stanley Sea for a while, till someone screws up

So? Your opinion on the movie?

Oh I liked it. Not going to take anything in it as gospel, but I enjoyed their performances a lot. I also think they portrayed McCain in a very positive light.

229 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:17:26pm

re: #224 teresa

What solutions do Republicans offer for our times now, do they have a solution to economic inequality?.

The current frontrunners seem to think the solution to economic inequality is to talk smack about people who acknowledge economic inequality.

230 studioTech  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:17:34pm

re: #226 SanFranciscoZionist

She's hard-core evangelical.

231 jaunte  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:18:07pm

re: #227 Kragar

"We love that the nation of Israel exists so it can be destroyed in accordance with our beliefs."

End Times Jesus wears one too. [Link: www.endtime.com...]

232 freetoken  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:18:20pm

re: #230 studioTech

She's hard-core evangelical.

Pentecostal, from previous accounts.

233 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:18:22pm

Night folks!

234 studioTech  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:19:38pm

re: #232 freetoken

I don't get as granular as you.

235 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:20:17pm

We went to see the Stratford production of 12th Night this aft. Great adaptation.

That Shakespeare guy really knew how to write.

G'night.

236 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:20:41pm

re: #227 Kragar

"We love that the nation of Israel exists so it can be destroyed in accordance with our beliefs."

Yeah, basically. Gotta keep the Arabs from killing the Jews so Jesus can come back and do it.

This is why I can't do religion. There is something in everyone of them that offends my modern morality and beliefs about human rights.

237 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:21:09pm

re: #224 teresa

I have my own conspiracy theory. I think Obama wanted to reach out to women. Let's face it, we're the largest voting demographic, yes? So he finds one thing that almost every women has had experience with, that is birth control. Well 98% of us, I think is the number. Basically all. And he does something wonderful to help women. He also knows the Right is going to go apeshit over it and make fools out of themselves with tons of anti-women rhetoric, scaring away all the independents from the Republican side. Anyway, I think it's quite brilliant.

238 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:22:30pm

re: #229 SanFranciscoZionist

The current frontrunners seem to think the solution to economic inequality is to talk smack about people who acknowledge economic inequality.

Yeah, like people who talk about race are the real racists. The only people who aren't bigoted and divisive are people who pretend that no divisions exist.

How.........simple.

239 Renaissance_Man  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:23:16pm

re: #229 SanFranciscoZionist

The current frontrunners seem to think the solution to economic inequality is to talk smack about people who acknowledge economic inequality.

That, and cut taxes on the wealthy.

And we say the GOP offers no solutions. Pish tosh.

240 Kragar  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:23:32pm

re: #236 moderatelyradicalliberal

Yeah, basically. Gotta keep the Arabs from killing the Jews so Jesus can come back and do it.

This is why I can't do religion. There is something in everyone of them that offends my modern morality and beliefs about human rights.

In the meantime, they'll make fun of the Mahdi, because thats silly superstition.

241 teresa  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:23:51pm

re: #229 SanFranciscoZionist

The current frontrunners seem to think the solution to economic inequality is to talk smack about people who acknowledge economic inequality.

Well that is very true. I think their failure to be open to talking about income inequality and solutions to unemployment, real job creation by discussing and proposing micro-economic policies will be their downfall. They can't keep talking about the President as not-American an expect people to take them seriously for long. Certainly they can keep Fox viewers with them, but who else?

242 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:24:03pm

re: #213 Iwouldprefernotto

They put Palin in the ad because she is the weakest link.

It's the combo of:
She attempts to sell the absolutely craziest/most dishonest talking points; gets dirty and personal frequently; and does so in the least articulate manner...yet was the VP nom in 2008 and is a popular and frequent "expert" on things political.

Basically, a montage of her nutty declarations begs the questions of why she's climbed as far as she has, and what kind of people still assess her as a meaningful contributor to the public discourse.

Shorter version: she's the biggest albatross around the neck of the GOP, but only by a small margin.

243 studioTech  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:24:31pm

I am just so ready for a liberal response to the months of GOP crap that's been broadcast due to the primaries. Hit back, for god's sake.

244 freetoken  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:24:57pm

A big question in anthropology is this: why do humans lie?

Deception it turns out plays a role in the lives of many animals (heck, plants too.)

Yet how does that generate the propensity for humans to continually engage in deception?

Tough question, with lots of sidetracking available.

Humans, with our language ability, appear to use our language skills to deceive quite often. Other animals have to use body and facial expressions, or perhaps chemical methods, or in the case of some birds vocal impersonations.

But we use our language ability to lie, quite often.

Something to keep in mind when discussing Sarah Palin.

All of this came to mind when I just read an online editorial in the Scotsman by well known throw-back Gerald Warner, who in his latest AGW-denial "opinion" piece bald facely stated that the "alarmists" don't include water-vapor in their calculations. That is just wrong, of course, and out-right lie. But he knows he can repeat it at will and his audience will willingly chose to accept it as true because it reinforces their currently held beliefs.

That is the perverse nature of this human propensity to lie.

It actually pays.

245 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:26:43pm

Speaking of Republican jerks, look at what I found via FB:

Shelley Berkley for Senate.

246 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:26:51pm

re: #238 moderatelyradicalliberal

Yeah, like people who talk about race are the real racists. The only people who aren't bigoted and divisive are people who pretend that no divisions exist.

Obviously.

Pointing out that someone else took a crap on the kitchen floor is infinitely worse than actually than intentionally taking a crap on the kitchen floor.

247 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:27:41pm

Fallout 3 just crapped out once.

Considering past playthroughs, I expect Fallout 3 to fuck up 25-30 times before I get on the Bridge.

248 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:27:50pm

re: #237 Everybody Look at Your Hands

I have my own conspiracy theory. I think Obama wanted to reach out to women. Let's face it, we're the largest voting demographic, yes? So he finds one thing that almost every women has had experience with, that is birth control. Well 98% of us, I think is the number. Basically all. And he does something wonderful to help women. He also knows the Right is going to go apeshit over it and make fools out of themselves with tons of anti-women rhetoric, scaring away all the independents from the Republican side. Anyway, I think it's quite brilliant.

I think the president did it because he believes it's the right thing to do. He is a solidly pro-reproductive choice man. The reaction from the right may be predictable enough to plan for, but it happens on it's own. The fact that it has rebounded in the president's favor is just gravy. The GOP just does not know how to stop offending the shit out of people (blacks, Hispanics, gays, non-Christians, women, etc.) once they start. If it's popular with conservative white male evangelicals, they will keep at it to the exclusion of anyone else.

249 Kragar  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:28:30pm

re: #247 ProGunLiberal

Fallout 3 just crapped out once.

Considering past playthroughs, I expect Fallout 3 to fuck up 25-30 times before I get on the Bridge.

Hmm, I don't recall ever having that many problems in MSZ.

250 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:28:37pm

re: #243 studioTech

I am just so ready for a liberal response to the months of GOP crap that's been broadcast due to the primaries. Hit back, for god's sake.

With what? Edited videos? Misquoted speeches or those taken out of context? Out and out lying?

251 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:28:50pm

re: #194 ProGunLiberal

Just got to the Weapons Lab.

Let's see how many times Fallout 3 craps itself.

Wanted to share this link with you, given your fondness for Taylor Swift.

252 allegro  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:29:37pm

re: #243 studioTech

I am just so ready for a liberal response to the months of GOP crap that's been broadcast due to the primaries. Hit back, for god's sake.

The Republicans are doing a better job than any Democratic hit back at making themselves look like utter flailing fools right now. Once there is a nominee, you will see the plenty of Democratic response. I think it will be devastating... and hilarious.

253 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:29:47pm

re: #249 Kragar

Hmm, I don't recall ever having that many problems in MSZ.

Neither did. Huh.

254 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:30:00pm

That ad is yet another fulfilled promise by Obama. As he said, they don't need to create new material, they simply can take the darned things the Republicans speak and air them as ads. And voila.

255 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:30:25pm

re: #249 Kragar

Well, aren't you a little lucky one.

Nukapedia summarizes the problem I have had in every playthrough where I go on MSZ:

Similarly to the Rescue From Paradise main quest. This quest may randomly auto-complete up to the 'kill the captain' stage after activating the engine core teleporter, causing Sally and the other non-player characters to port back into the engine core and make a bee-line for a teleporter to the bridge located behind an inaccessible door.

256 jaunte  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:30:32pm

'Game Change’: Could Sarah Palin portrayal affect the 2012 election?

As is usually the case with media portrayals, particularly with controversial figures such as Ms. Palin, viewers will see the film through their own lenses, says John Pitney, professor of American politics at Claremont McKenna College in California. “To Palin haters, it confirms that she’s a dolt. To Palin supporters, it confirms that Hollywood is biased against Republicans in general, conservative Republicans in particular, and Sarah Palin most of all,” he says via e-mail.

Still, he outlines a way in which the film could have an impact. He writes, “It serves as a reminder of the trouble that Palin encountered in 2008. So when the eventual GOP nominee – probably Mitt Romney – picks his running mate, he’s going to be extra careful to find someone who is fluent in public policy issues."

Is there anyone?

257 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:30:37pm

re: #246 The Ghost of a Flea

Obviously.

Pointing out that someone else took a crap on the kitchen floor is infinitely worse than actually than intentionally taking a crap on the kitchen floor.

It's like they consider it rude or something. Like you're the turd in the punch bowl at the party. They truly believe that any problem in America is caused by those who point out problems.

258 Gus  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:31:06pm

re: #254 Creeping Diversity

That ad is yet another fulfilled promise by Obama. As he said, they don't need to create new material, they simply can take the darned things the Republicans speak and air them as ads. And voila.

Exactly. We don't need to edit videos. Just play the stream and let 'em rip.

259 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:31:27pm

re: #245 Eclectic Infidel

Speaking of Republican jerks, look at what I found via FB:

Shelley Berkley for Senate.

On the chance she's not using that as a political leverage, three cheers for her! Ok, Three cheers for her anyway!

260 freetoken  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:32:50pm

re: #256 jaunte

'Game Change’: Could Sarah Palin portrayal affect the 2012 election?

Is there anyone?

Yes, I am sure there are.

However, if they will pass all the litmus tests of the SoCons will be the problem.

261 freetoken  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:33:28pm

All you game players might be interested in this:

How do you run and jump in warped space?

262 studioTech  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:33:36pm

re: #245 Eclectic Infidel

re: #250 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Uh, no need for that. Anyway, that seems to be more of a fox-news, breitbart sort of strategy. As far as I'm concerned, that's cheating.

263 Mocking Jay  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:33:43pm
264 Kragar  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:33:49pm

re: #255 ProGunLiberal

Well, aren't you a little lucky one.

Nukapedia summarizes the problem I have had in every playthrough where I go on MSZ:

Have you considered just blaming Obama?
/

265 teresa  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:34:21pm

re: #237 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Hah, interesting. But I think Republicans have been itching for a fight on contraception for years now. They want to reverse not just Roe but Eisenstadt, Roe's precursor and effectively neuter any individual right to privacy you cannot explain the 27 states currently pushing to curb reproductive rights currently. Texas alone has 36 separate bills going through their statehouses that deal with curbing RH rights. I think they've wanted this fight for a while, and finally women are awakening to the fight. The President, who I believe could be the luckiest man alive just happened to be around to take advantage of their overreach. Let's face it now the administration doesn't have to let it drop, Republicans have pushed it far enough that women are worried about losing the right to speak frankly with their physician, and we see a bunch of old guys who basically want to take away rights we fought for long ago.

266 Ming  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:35:49pm

re: #225 moderatelyradicalliberal

Good point! I'd forgotten about that.

267 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:36:01pm

re: #261 freetoken

All you game players might be interested in this:

How do you run and jump in warped space?

Sounds like a version of Portal that's been turned on its head.

268 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:36:06pm

re: #256 jaunte

'Game Change’: Could Sarah Palin portrayal affect the 2012 election?

Is there anyone?

The GOP will have the same problem with the VP choice that they now have with the presidential choice: they can't find anyone who appeals to moderate independents and the resentful, nut case evangelical base of the GOP. Basically the same problem they had in 2008. You can't appeal to the GOP base without sounding like an ignorant, hateful fool to everyone else.

269 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:36:43pm

re: #181 Stanley Sea for a while, till someone screws up

She does, often.

She was noticed wearing it in New York. You know, that un-American part of America.

270 studioTech  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:36:59pm

re: #262 studioTech

I just realized I may have missed the snark tag.

271 freetoken  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:37:08pm

re: #268 moderatelyradicalliberal

Today's win by Santorum in Kansas certainly is more evidence that he would be the right guy to run as VP for Mitt, no?

272 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:37:11pm

re: #248 moderatelyradicalliberal

I think the president did it because he believes it's the right thing to do. He is a solidly pro-reproductive choice man. The reaction from the right may be predictable enough to plan for, but it happens on it's own. The fact that it has rebounded in the president's favor is just gravy. The GOP just does not know how to stop offending the shit out of people (blacks, Hispanics, gays, non-Christians, women, etc.) once they start. If it's popular with conservative white male evangelicals, they will keep at it to the exclusion of anyone else.

Oh he's done a lot of things that he believes are right. Great things, but this one seemed to be a bit of an odd choice. Why birth control and why now? I don't mean it in a bad way. I'm happy to see he's politically savvy. It's an essential trait for a President.

273 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:37:39pm

re: #244 freetoken

A few years back I watched a documentary on monkey vocalization, and one part that struck me as humorous was when a beta male type used a vocalization for danger, which they theorized was a vocalization for a ground-based danger like a poisonous snake, just so he could sneak a nibble at some stashed food while all the other monkeys where dashing up the trees for safety.

274 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:38:38pm

re: #264 Kragar

My current "solution" is save scrumming. I save every 30-45 seconds, or after a major event. I have a cycle of six individual files.

275 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:39:31pm

re: #256 jaunte

'Game Change’: Could Sarah Palin portrayal affect the 2012 election?

Is there anyone?

There are many. The question is: Will they be allowed to speak according to their expertise? With the primaries behind him at that point, Romney might well let them, accepting the loss on the wingnuttiest of the GOP base as the price he must pay to woo independents and moderates. The alternative would see such a person's reputation used largely to spout DERP! to mollify angry wingnuts and that reputation largely immolated on a funeral pyre of Burning Stupid. We'll have to see what it is decided, hopefully sanity will prevail.

276 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:40:16pm
277 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:40:43pm

re: #262 studioTech

re: #250 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Uh, no need for that. Anyway, that seems to be more of a fox-news, breitbart sort of strategy. As far as I'm concerned, that's cheating.

I agree that the GOP is going to fall on their collective faces on their own. As long as we keep talking about the economy, jobs and taxes, the things Americans are most concerned about, we'll do very well in November.

278 JamesWI  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:40:58pm

re: #271 freetoken

Today's win by Santorum in Kansas certainly is more evidence that he would be the right guy to run as VP for Mitt, no?

That would certainly be hilarious to watch. "Hey, I called my running mate Obama 2.0, and said if he was the nominee, you might as well just vote for Obama.....but forget all that! Now that I am in a prestigious but completely powerless role in his administration, we're the best choice!"

279 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:41:03pm

re: #265 teresa

Hah, interesting. But I think Republicans have been itching for a fight on contraception for years now. They want to reverse not just Roe but Eisenstadt, Roe's precursor and effectively neuter any individual right to privacy you cannot explain the 27 states currently pushing to curb reproductive rights currently. Texas alone has 36 separate bills going through their statehouses that deal with curbing RH rights. I think they've wanted this fight for a while, and finally women are awakening to the fight. The President, who I believe could be the luckiest man alive just happened to be around to take advantage of their overreach. Let's face it now the administration doesn't have to let it drop, Republicans have pushed it far enough that women are worried about losing the right to speak frankly with their physician, and we see a bunch of old guys who basically want to take away rights we fought for long ago.

Luck is when skill, preparation and opportunity meet in the same space. He may not be batting 100%, but Obama's got skills that few politicians have. Part of the Right's hatred of him is their jealousy of him. They thought they found their own Obama in Palin, but it turns out you have to be smart to be an Obama.

280 Mocking Jay  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:41:55pm

Any potential Romney running mate has had an opposing policy position on every issue...

:D

281 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:42:27pm

re: #244 freetoken

A big question in anthropology is this: why do humans lie?

Deception it turns out plays a role in the lives of many animals (heck, plants too.)

Yet how does that generate the propensity for humans to continually engage in deception?

Tough question, with lots of sidetracking available.

Humans, with our language ability, appear to use our language skills to deceive quite often. Other animals have to use body and facial expressions, or perhaps chemical methods, or in the case of some birds vocal impersonations.

But we use our language ability to lie, quite often.

Something to keep in mind when discussing Sarah Palin.

All of this came to mind when I just read an online editorial in the Scotsman by well known throw-back Gerald Warner, who in his latest AGW-denial "opinion" piece bald facely stated that the "alarmists" don't include water-vapor in their calculations. That is just wrong, of course, and out-right lie. But he knows he can repeat it at will and his audience will willingly chose to accept it as true because it reinforces their currently held beliefs.

That is the perverse nature of this human propensity to lie.

It actually pays.

Are any other animals capable of self-deception, I wonder?

Humans are set apart from other species by the way we can conceptualize something so vividly that our physiology reacts: we can imagine a fear-inducing scenario and experience an appropriate, responsive activation of the nervous system. It's a magical thing, imagination, but it has weird components...one of which is the capacity for self-deception.

282 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:43:01pm

re: #269 Creeping Diversity

She was noticed wearing it in New York. You know, that un-American part of America.

Silly Sergey. New York is not un-American, it's just not part of real America. It's an imaginary state.
/

283 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:43:44pm

re: #282 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Not part of the Heartland, I know.

284 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:44:48pm

re: #274 ProGunLiberal

So far, so good. Only one malfunction through the first 1/3rd of the Weapons Lab.

285 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:46:04pm

re: #272 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Oh he's done a lot of things that he believes are right. Great things, but this one seemed to be a bit of an odd choice. Why birth control and why now? I don't mean it in a bad way. I'm happy to see he's politically savvy. It's an essential trait for a President.

It's a part of implementing the Affordable Care Act. The act mandates that preventative care be covered by insurance and rectify the fact that medicine like Viagra is covered by insurance, but birth control often isn't. The law seeks to remove barriers to preventative care and this was always a part of it. This birth control rule had been in the works since last year. 28 states already had such a mandate so there really isn't anything new about it.

286 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:46:15pm

re: #281 The Ghost of a Flea

Are any other animals capable of self-deception, I wonder?

Some primates carry around their recently dead offspring for days before finally leaving them, so I would guess yes.

287 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:46:50pm

re: #265 teresa

Hah, interesting. But I think Republicans have been itching for a fight on contraception for years now. They want to reverse not just Roe but Eisenstadt, Roe's precursor and effectively neuter any individual right to privacy you cannot explain the 27 states currently pushing to curb reproductive rights currently. Texas alone has 36 separate bills going through their statehouses that deal with curbing RH rights. I think they've wanted this fight for a while, and finally women are awakening to the fight. The President, who I believe could be the luckiest man alive just happened to be around to take advantage of their overreach. Let's face it now the administration doesn't have to let it drop, Republicans have pushed it far enough that women are worried about losing the right to speak frankly with their physician, and we see a bunch of old guys who basically want to take away rights we fought for long ago.

Very true, indeed. I would also hope this administration does something to help women have access to abortion services. That frightens me most in this whole thing. Maybe birth control is the first step, which is great, but we're coming to a point where the Federal gov may have to step in if the Right keeps making it impossible for women to access clinics.

288 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:47:22pm

re: #284 ProGunLiberal

When did this turn into a "Let's Play..." thread?

:P

289 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:48:00pm

re: #256 jaunte

'Game Change’: Could Sarah Palin portrayal affect the 2012 election?

Is there anyone?

Ya think he'll pick Santorum?

290 simoom  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:49:05pm

re: #6 elisabeth

I don't know. This seems an odd thing to "worry" about. For one thing, Palin, unsurprisingly, makes zero sense and who outside FNC pays her any mind at this point?

I'm a bit torn myself.

The 2008 Obama Campaign mostly walked on eggshells around this sort of topic, and this maybe shows they're planning on engaging more readily & combatively when challenged, this time around, which feels inherently riskier. It elevates Palin's profile, though on a day when it was already going to be elevated negatively anyway, with the Game Change premier (so it nicely piggybacks on that). It also serves as a kind of general rebuttal to the the recent Bell smears, without actually mentioning that specific controversy. It could also be an opening salvo to the Right, warning that if they go way over the line the campaign might just put their words in a rapid-response ad, call them out in it, and engage their supporters with it.

Though maybe that's all an over-analysis, especially if it was mainly distributed embedded in a supporter e-mail blast, which is where I first saw it.

291 Mocking Jay  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:49:22pm

re: #287 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Very true, indeed. I would also hope this administration does something to help women have access to abortion services. That frightens me most in this whole thing. Maybe birth control is the first step, which is great, but we're coming to a point where the Federal gov may have to step in if the Right keeps making it impossible for women to access clinics.

This federal government can't agree on what time it is. The best we can hope for is to see cases come before the SC, and I don't even know if that would go in our favor.

292 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:50:34pm

I hear Farrakhan called Obama murderer and assassin just recently. So what gives?

293 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:51:23pm

re: #288 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Whenever I got to the most glitchy part of Fallout 3 for me.

294 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:51:44pm

re: #287 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Very true, indeed. I would also hope this administration does something to help women have access to abortion services. That frightens me most in this whole thing. Maybe birth control is the first step, which is great, but we're coming to a point where the Federal gov may have to step in if the Right keeps making it impossible for women to access clinics.

I think they have their hands tied by the Hyde Amendment, but if they were smart they would make part of their campaign educating women on how much access to abortion services has been restricted in their states. They should have canvassers going door to door with this shit encouraging women to vote in local, state and federal elections to protect their rights.

295 Interesting Times  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:53:00pm

re: #290 simoom

I'm beginning to think the Obama campaign could just hire this guy to write their ads:

296 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:53:20pm

re: #285 moderatelyradicalliberal

It's a part of implementing the Affordable Care Act. The act mandates that preventative care be covered by insurance and rectify the fact that medicine like Viagra is covered by insurance, but birth control often isn't. The law seeks to remove barriers to preventative care and this was always a part of it. This birth control rule had been in the works since last year. 28 states already had such a mandate so there really isn't anything new about it.

Ok... so now you're just gonna make me scratch my whole conspiracy theory. And I thought I was on to something.

297 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:53:27pm

re: #293 ProGunLiberal

Whenever I got to the most glitchy part of Fallout 3 for me.

FO3 is a glitch.

/glittering gem

298 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:53:36pm

re: #292 Creeping Diversity

I hear Farrakhan called Obama murderer and assassin just recently. So what gives?

Farrakhan was good friends with Gaddafi so he's mad that Obama helped take him out.

299 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:54:52pm

re: #297 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

FO3 is a glitch.

/glittering gem

Them's fightin' words!

300 studioTech  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:55:08pm

re: #290 simoom

Palin has had three years to spout off nonsense since the last campaign, it's a whole different environment. She's fair game. During the campaign she was 'woman' and hence the tread-lightly. Now all of the women have had a chance to get to know her and she's just 'celebrity'.

301 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:56:08pm

re: #292 Creeping Diversity

I hear Farrakhan called Obama murderer and assassin just recently. So what gives?

The power of the Black Man Hug weakens when a participant dies. Now that Dr Bell has passed, Farrakhan is no longer transitively bonded to the President.

302 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:56:13pm

re: #292 Creeping Diversity

I hear Farrakhan called Obama murderer and assassin just recently. So what gives?

Libya.

303 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:56:26pm

re: #297 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

It can glitch pretty badly. But this area is the worst.

I have been fantastically lucky in VATS in the past 5 minutes.

Five Times going into VATS, 3 times the Mysterious Stranger appears.

304 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:56:37pm

re: #296 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Ok... so now you're just gonna make me scratch my whole conspiracy theory. And I thought I was on to something.

Sorry. I'm not saying Obama can't be cunning or even cold-blooded in his political calculation, but on this one it's just him doing what he thinks is right for American women and listening to the women in his life. We didn't get a women president, but we did get a feminist.

305 jaunte  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:56:46pm

re: #289 Everybody Look at Your Hands

I don't see it as likely; even though he would be attractive to socons, he might be too independent for Romney, and his campaign managers have the Palin example to warn them away from that.

306 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:56:49pm

re: #301 The Ghost of a Flea

The power of the Black Man Hug weakens when a participant dies. Now that Dr Bell has passed, Farrakhan is no longer transitively bonded to the President.

Quoted just for awesomeness.

307 Lidane  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:57:00pm

re: #292 Creeping Diversity

I hear Farrakhan called Obama murderer and assassin just recently. So what gives?

Farrakhan is an ass. That's what.

308 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:57:12pm

re: #301 The Ghost of a Flea

Well, that's what I mean. Can wingnuts *please* get off Obama's back now? //

309 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:57:18pm

re: #307 Lidane

Farrakhan is an ass. That's what.

Well, that too.

310 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:57:47pm

re: #301 The Ghost of a Flea

The power of the Black Man Hug weakens when a participant dies. Now that Dr Bell has passed, Farrakhan is no longer transitively bonded to the President.

LOL!

311 jaunte  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:58:55pm
312 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:58:59pm

re: #286 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Some primates carry around their recently dead offspring for days before finally leaving them, so I would guess yes.

That's mourning, chimps and other primates are very aware of death. Not to mention that the Santorums did the same thing with their stillborn son, and while it may be incredibly morbid I don't think anyone would argue they were deceiving themselves about his status.

313 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 8:59:10pm

re: #302 SanFranciscoZionist

Farrakhan was advocating for the guy who was giving him money.

314 freetoken  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:00:17pm

re: #290 simoom

Given the overwhelming negatives that Sarah Palin has with the American populace (outside of the wingnut crowd), by using her as the signal "Republican" the makers of that campaign advertisement are trying to devalue the word "Republican" in the eyes of those on the fence.

315 HappyWarrior  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:01:11pm

She is so unbelievably full of shit. Anyhow watched Game Change with my folks tonight. I felt bad for McCain's advisers honestly but they should have vetted her much better.

316 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:02:43pm

re: #291 Meh.

This federal government can't agree on what time it is. The best we can hope for is to see cases come before the SC, and I don't even know if that would go in our favor.

I think you may be right about individual cases, but something has to give. Abortion services are a woman's right by law.

317 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:03:09pm

re: #299 Targetpractice

Them's fightin' words!

"FO franchise + Bethesda" is fightin' words. Get with the program.

/glittering gem

318 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:03:22pm

re: #308 Creeping Diversity

Well, that's what I mean. Can wingnuts *please* get off Obama's back now? //

Of course not. He a huggable guy, and thus a nexus in the Black Man Hive Mind. If not constantly monitored Obama could, at any moment, put the entire country under Racialist Atheist Shariah law and/or talk to a white lady.

319 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:04:39pm

re: #303 ProGunLiberal

It can glitch pretty badly. But this area is the worst.

I have been fantastically lucky in VATS in the past 5 minutes.

Five Times going into VATS, 3 times the Mysterious Stranger appears.

Pfft! Pussy.
/

320 HappyWarrior  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:05:09pm

Palin is a race baiter, I have no doubt about that whatsoever.

321 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:05:10pm

re: #311 jaunte

SNL’s Rush Limbaugh Announces His New Lineup Of Advertisers

Schroder's Fake Rape Whistles, help is not on the way.

322 Ming  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:06:04pm

Omigod. Just saw this:
[Link: www.balloon-juice.com...]

"The Arizona Senate passed a bill this week that allows doctors to withhold from pregnant women information regarding prenatal problems because disclosing that information might lead to an abortion."

323 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:06:15pm

re: #318 The Ghost of a Flea

Of course not. He a huggable guy, and thus a nexus in the Black Man Hive Mind. If not constantly monitored Obama could, at any moment, put the entire country under Racialist Atheist Shariah law and/or talk to a white lady.

I hear that there are many white ladies who would appreciate being talked to by the president. Some would even very much like a hug.

324 jaunte  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:06:26pm

re: #321 goddamnedfrank

SNL still has the problem of the one joke skit.

325 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:06:30pm

OK, is Farrakhan expanding the franchise?

326 jaunte  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:07:22pm

re: #325 Creeping Diversity

Must be his body thetans talking.

327 Decatur Deb  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:07:32pm

re: #280 Meh.

Any potential Romney running mate has had an opposing policy position on every issue...

:D

Sheriff Joe.

328 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:09:54pm

re: #304 moderatelyradicalliberal

Sorry. I'm not saying Obama can't be cunning or even cold-blooded in his political calculation, but on this one it's just him doing what he thinks is right for American women and listening to the women in his life. We didn't get a women president, but we did get a feminist.

Amen to that. The conspiracy part was a joke, really, but focusing on women's issues helps him on many levels. Other than his sincerity and morality, it's a good political move.

329 Lidane  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:10:04pm

re: #327 Decatur Deb

Sheriff Joe.

That would be hilarious. The GOP would basically be conceding the Latino vote for the next several election cycles if they did that.

330 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:10:09pm

re: #323 moderatelyradicalliberal

I hear that there are many white ladies who would appreciate being talked to by the president. Some would even very much like a hug.

Heck, Obama was referenced on Will and Grace, back in the day.

331 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:10:54pm

re: #325 Creeping Diversity

OK, is Farrakhan expanding the franchise?

I'm not surprised Farrakhan would be drawn to Scientology. He's talked about UFOs before.

332 HappyWarrior  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:11:02pm

Obama is fortunate that his opponents are either desperate ala Romney/Gingrich or nuts ala Santorum/Paul

333 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:11:25pm

re: #305 jaunte

I don't see it as likely; even though he would be attractive to socons, he might be too independent for Romney, and his campaign managers have the Palin example to warn them away from that.

I was thinking of sheer popularity. The one thing I can say about the GOP is, even as highly predictable as they are? I couldn't tell you their next move for the life of me.

334 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:12:22pm

re: #325 Creeping Diversity

OK, is Farrakhan expanding the franchise?

I can't find a reference, but I'd swear this is not a new development. I've heard about Farrakhan being interesting in Dianetics before...like years ago.

335 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:12:36pm

re: #301 The Ghost of a Flea

The power of the Black Man Hug weakens when a participant dies. Now that Dr Bell has passed, Farrakhan is no longer transitively bonded to the President.

Are you on the Twitter? I would totally follow you.

336 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:12:43pm

re: #332 HappyWarrior

Obama is fortunate that his opponents are either desperate ala Romney/Gingrich or nuts ala Santorum/Paul

Voltaire's prayer: "O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous."

337 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:12:43pm

re: #330 SanFranciscoZionist

Heck, Obama was referenced on Will and Grace, back in the day.

I believe that Grace dreamed she was in the shower with him.

338 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:13:42pm

re: #337 SanFranciscoZionist

I believe that Grace dreamed she was in the shower with him.

I remember that episode.

339 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:14:27pm

re: #318 The Ghost of a Flea

re: #323 moderatelyradicalliberal

Oh hey, and what about that voice? Oh baby!

340 HappyWarrior  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:15:45pm

re: #336 moderatelyradicalliberal

Voltaire's prayer: "O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous."

Smart man.

341 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:16:35pm

re: #334 The Ghost of a Flea

He's serious too. [Link: www.forum.exscn.net...]

342 labman57  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:19:43pm

Conservatives continue to insist that their vehement hatred and unparalleled disrespect for Obama has no racial basis whatsoever, indignantly declaring "stop pulling the race card" whenever an Obama supporter points to evidence suggesting otherwise.
And then someone such as Sarah, Rush, or Sean steps up to the plate ...

Palin is once again attempting to rewrite history in yet another failed effort to appear intelligent and educated in her quest to be perceived as God’s gift to American patriotism. In her defense, while demonstrating her expertise about familiar, important American historical events, perhaps she had sweaty palms and her ink smudged.

343 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:25:05pm

re: #292 Creeping Diversity

I hear Farrakhan called Obama murderer and assassin just recently. So what gives?

Lewis Farrakhan, unlike Barack Obama or the late Derrick Bell, really does hate America. He says that shit about every American president.

344 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:28:35pm

re: #336 moderatelyradicalliberal

Geez, Obama must be praying alot then

/I'm not sure.

345 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:28:52pm

re: #335 Everybody Look at Your Hands

Are you on the Twitter? I would totally follow you.

As of yet, performances on LGF only.

346 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:29:42pm

re: #342 labman57

Conservatives continue to insist that their vehement hatred and unparalleled disrespect for Obama has no racial basis whatsoever, indignantly declaring "stop pulling the race card" whenever an Obama supporter points to evidence suggesting otherwise.
And then someone such as Sarah, Rush, or Sean steps up to the plate ...

Palin is once again attempting to rewrite history in yet another failed effort to appear intelligent and educated in her quest to be perceived as God’s gift to American patriotism. In her defense, while demonstrating her expertise about familiar, important American historical events, perhaps she had sweaty palms and her ink smudged.

hehe I read something the other day about how the "war on women" is really the war on conservative woman created by the MSM and the liberal feminists and I don't know... Satan... I think, too.

347 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:30:01pm

re: #343 Dark_Falcon

Lewis Farrakhan, unlike Barack Obama or the late Derrick Bell, really does hate America. He says that shit about every American president.

He's trying to run a guilt trip on Obama, though.

348 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:30:23pm

re: #345 The Ghost of a Flea

As of yet, performances on LGF only.

Bummer.

349 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:38:48pm

re: #343 Dark_Falcon

Farrakhan occupies a special pantheon of unique assholes.

350 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:41:25pm

Made it to Biological Research:

Number of Failures:3 Much lower than usual.

351 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:41:35pm

re: #347 SanFranciscoZionist

He's trying to run a guilt trip on Obama, though.

Won't work. Obama now understands that not using force against terrorist malefactors is a recipe for disaster. Obama does not like using force (no decent man does), but its what he's got to do in order to do his duty and I don't see him being guilted out of it.

352 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:43:18pm

re: #350 ProGunLiberal

Made it to Biological Research:

Number of Failures:3 Much lower than usual.

I originally read that as Fallout: 3. Meh, same difference.
/GG

353 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:44:26pm

re: #351 Dark_Falcon

Shit, Dark. When did you start campaigning for Obama?
/

354 Decatur Deb  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:46:39pm

Don't know how welcome links to Gateway Pundit are, so this should be a cache-link. It's a classic twist of a story into a deceptive headline. The study cited found that whites surveyed are increasingly perceiving anti-white racism. The headline morphs that into "Study finds whites suffer more racism".

[Link: www.google.com...]

355 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:47:05pm

re: #347 SanFranciscoZionist

He's trying to run a guilt trip on Obama, though.

Louis got his fee-fees hurt because his friend GKQ got 86'ed, I take it.

Fuck him.

356 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:50:24pm

re: #354 Decatur Deb

My sense is the reverse. I caught a lot of shit just for being white when I was in grade school. Early 70's, racial tensions were still hot, and I was clueless.

These day's, not so much.

357 Decatur Deb  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:54:23pm

re: #356 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

My sense is the reverse. I caught a lot of shit just for being white when I was in grade school. Early 70's, racial tensions were still hot, and I was clueless.

These day's, not so much.

That's going to vary a lot by the times and geography, I suspect. Some of the difference could be real, and some (the more recent) enhanced deliberately by the politics of resentment.

358 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:56:48pm

re: #354 Decatur Deb

Don't know how welcome links to Gateway Pundit are, so this should be a cache-link. It's a classic twist of a story into a deceptive headline. The study cited found that whites surveyed are increasingly perceiving anti-white racism. The headline morphs that into "Study finds whites suffer more racism".

[Link: www.google.com...]

From the Daily Mail, no less.

It's not a cache link, btw.

359 Decatur Deb  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:58:29pm

re: #358 Everybody Look at Your Hands

From the Daily Mail, no less.

It's not a cache link, btw.

Should have been, I lifted it from the Google search page. I hate to give them the traffic.

360 spiderx  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 9:59:20pm

Sarah Palin is an embarrassment to civilization.

361 What, me worry?  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:00:44pm

re: #359 Decatur Deb

Should have been, I lifted it from the Google search page. I hate to give them the traffic.

You can maybe go back and edit it.

362 Decatur Deb  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:02:12pm

re: #361 Everybody Look at Your Hands

You can maybe go back and edit it.

Must not know how to pick up the cache w/o experimenting some. That was my best shot.

363 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:02:54pm

I think there are higher levels of animosity out there. Everybody's in a bad mood. A fight almost broke out at the thrift store over a high chair the other day. I see lots of road rage around here.

364 prairiefire  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:06:17pm

We all should just listen to Coolio:

365 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:06:34pm

I am one button away from using the Death Ray. For the Fallout people on here, who wants me to launch it at the Earth?

366 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:09:21pm

re: #357 Decatur Deb

I was totally clueless. I was not raised to think in racial terms. As a youngin' , I was playing with another kid in my apt. building and suggested we go play with another friend of mine, because he had all these cool Star Wars action figures and stuff.

The neighbor kid asks "Is he colored"?

In my mind I'm thinking "Well, he ain't invisible, so he must be 'colored'", so I say yes.

He says "I'm not allowed to play with colored kids".

I was flummoxed. I had no clue what that was supposed to mean.

367 Kragar  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:10:41pm

re: #365 ProGunLiberal

I am one button away from using the Death Ray. For the Fallout people on here, who wants me to launch it at the Earth?

Of course you fire it.

368 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:11:16pm

re: #367 Kragar

Say bye-bye to some portion of Ontario then.

369 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:12:42pm

re: #365 ProGunLiberal

I am one button away from using the Death Ray. For the Fallout people on here, who wants me to launch it at the Earth?

¿Por qué no los dos?
/That's what the 'save' function is for, after all.

370 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:13:23pm

re: #368 ProGunLiberal

Looking at the impact point, it appears the strike occurred somewhere in the London-Kitchener area of Ontario.

371 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:13:47pm

re: #354 Decatur Deb

Don't know how welcome links to Gateway Pundit are, so this should be a cache-link. It's a classic twist of a story into a deceptive headline. The study cited found that whites surveyed are increasingly perceiving anti-white racism. The headline morphs that into "Study finds whites suffer more racism".

[Link: www.google.com...]

It's okay, though, because White people's perceptions are objective and unfiltered.

There's a reason RWNJs and social conservatives love really old texts (and textbooks, for homeschooling) that don't have "political correctness." Beyond simple racism there's a whole complex of grievances (intermediate and advanced racism, if you will) in which they as individuals feel shorted because they're not given credit as being extensions of the "civilized" people that brought everything good to the world. Sort of racism spliced with privilege.

372 Decatur Deb  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:14:23pm

re: #366 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

I was totally clueless. I was not raised to think in racial terms. As a youngin' , I was playing with another kid in my apt. building and suggested we go play with another friend of mine, because he had all these cool Star Wars action figures and stuff.

The neighbor kid asks "Is he colored"?

In my mind I'm thinking "Well, he ain't invisible, so he must be 'colored'", so I say yes.

He says "I'm not allowed to play with colored kids".

I was flummoxed. I had no clue what that was supposed to mean.

Was raised in (barely) integrated boarding schools. Of course we could see what was going on during occasional visits to our home neighborhoods. (That was 50s working-class Pittsburgh, so we fought with pretty much everybody but Irish Catholic Democrats by default.)

373 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:15:10pm

re: #370 ProGunLiberal

Looking at the impact point, it appears the strike occurred somewhere in the London-Kitchener area of Ontario.

That's fine. Ontario is filled with Social Liberals instead of real people, so no harm done. Now if you'd hit Alberta, I'd be mad.

///

374 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:16:25pm

re: #368 ProGunLiberal

Say bye-bye to some portion of Ontario then.

There's a canonical reason for that, I think.

375 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:16:39pm

re: #373 Dark_Falcon

Considering that, in Fallout Universe, the only significant population in the area remaining is Toronto, I think the biggest effect of what I did was enlarging Lake Ontario.

376 BongCrodny  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:19:13pm

re: #365 ProGunLiberal

I am one button away from using the Death Ray. For the Fallout people on here, who wants me to launch it at the Earth?

Aim here: 61° 34' 53" N / 149° 26' 21" W

You know you're curious.

377 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:22:27pm

re: #376 BongCrodny

I'm sure not everybody in Wasilla is as big asshole as Palin and her family.

Some wonk actually pin-pointed the hit point in the game. Algonquin Provincial Park. It's in the boondocks.

378 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:23:29pm

re: #374 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

There's a canonical reason for that, I think.

Yes, because it is doing God's work to slaughter Canadian Socialists.

/Bryan Fischer

379 BongCrodny  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:24:50pm

re: #377 ProGunLiberal

I'm sure not everybody in Wasilla is as big asshole as Palin and her family.

Some wonk actually pin-pointed the hit point in the game. Algonquin Provincial Park. It's in the boondocks.

Of course I would never aim a death ray at an innocent person.

A video game, that's a totally different can of beans.

380 Decatur Deb  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:25:58pm

re: #379 BongCrodny

Of course I would never aim a death ray at an innocent person.

A video game, that's a totally different can of beans.

Baby steps, young Jedi. Baby steps.

381 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:27:50pm

re: #378 Dark_Falcon

Hmm... I was thinking of the whole annexation thing. The FO franchise has a history of abusing Canada.

382 BongCrodny  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:28:21pm

re: #380 Decatur Deb

Baby steps, young Jedi. Baby steps.

So you're saying there's hope for me?

Heck, I'm such a weenie I play the "good" characters in RPGs.

383 Decatur Deb  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:30:46pm

re: #382 BongCrodny

So you're saying there's hope for me?

Heck, I'm such a weenie I play the "good" characters in RPGs.

Hell, I've been trying to win Civ IV for years, playing as Gandhi.

384 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:31:05pm

re: #379 BongCrodny

You should never feel guilt about leveling destruction on a collection of "ones and zeros". That's what video games are for. Exploring nihilistic tendencies in a consequence-free environment that harms no living creatures. It's cathartic fantasy.

385 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:32:52pm

re: #383 Decatur Deb

Hell, I've been trying to win Civ IV for years, playing as Gandhi.

Every damn time that asshole shows up in my games, he is hungry for war and conquest!

/Got all the settings on random, so that might be the thing.

386 Kragar  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:34:52pm

re: #384 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

You should never feel guilt about leveling destruction on a collection of "ones and zeros". That's what video games are for. Exploring nihilistic tendencies in a consequence-free environment that harms no living creatures. It's cathartic fantasy.

DAMN YOU!

387 Decatur Deb  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:43:57pm

re: #384 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

You should never feel guilt about leveling destruction on a collection of "ones and zeros". That's what video games are for. Exploring nihilistic tendencies in a consequence-free environment that harms no living creatures. It's cathartic fantasy.

That's not what the guy who ran our Apache Longbow Multi-axis Simulator said.re: #385 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Every damn time that asshole shows up in my games, he is hungry for war and conquest!

/Got all the settings on random, so that might be the thing.

Started trying to play him that way, ain't working at monarch level.

388 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:47:45pm

re: #386 Kragar

I still find this one fun and cathartic as all hell. Don't know what I'll do when my brick of an obsolete console dies.

389 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:48:57pm

re: #368 ProGunLiberal

Say bye-bye to some portion of Ontario then.

BOOM

the ray can be configured to aim at Earth near Algonquin Provincial Park in Ontario, Canada. The explosion spans around 350 miles

390 Decatur Deb  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:49:54pm

re: #388 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

I still find this one fun and cathartic as all hell. Don't know what I'll do when my brick of an obsolete console dies.

Based on the 'Anabasis' movie?

391 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:50:55pm

re: #388 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

I prefer a game that does this:

Leon, the Mexican Gunslinging Talking Coyote.

392 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:52:16pm

Lol, Inhofe will be on Maddow's show Tuesday.

393 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:53:37pm

re: #387 Decatur Deb

You brave bastard. I've not had much success beyond 'Noble'.

The only thing I can say is that India's "workers" naturally have a +50% build time, and you should use that to your advantage. And I'd bet you've already factored that in.

394 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 10:55:19pm

re: #393 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

You brave bastard. I've not had much success beyond 'Noble'.

The only thing I can say is that India's "workers" naturally have a +50% build time, and you should use that to your advantage. And I'd bet you've already factored that in.

Civ?

395 Decatur Deb  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:00:13pm

re: #393 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

You brave bastard. I've not had much success beyond 'Noble'.

The only thing I can say is that India's "workers" naturally have a +50% build time, and you should use that to your advantage. And I'd bet you've already factored that in.

Been playing at 'monarch' for a couple years--without ever winning a single game. It's good for the soul.

396 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:05:39pm

re: #395 Decatur Deb

Been playing at 'monarch' for a couple years--without ever winning a single game. It's good for the soul.

I won two games on monarch.
Thank you dense jungles!
:)

397 Decatur Deb  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:08:51pm

re: #396 Varek Raith

I won two games on monarch.
Thank you dense jungles!
:)

I'm convinced there is some situation of terrain and opposition forces that will let me win, someday. I rarely get far into the modern age without attracting a dogpile.

"Where are all those damn Jaguar Warriors coming from?"

398 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:11:09pm

re: #397 Decatur Deb

I'm convinced there is some situation of terrain and opposition forces that will let me win, someday. I rarely get far into the modern age with out attracting a dogpile.

"Where are all those damn Jaguar Warriors coming from?"

Those games that I won had about a thousand years of attrition and ambushes.
It was a nightmare. For the AI.
:evilgrin:

399 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:12:17pm

re: #390 Decatur Deb

One thousand miles from safety.
One thousand miles from the sea.
One thousand miles with enemies on all sides.

400 Decatur Deb  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:13:21pm

re: #399 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

One thousand miles from safety.
One thousand miles from the sea.
One thousand miles with enemies on all sides.

So why shouldn't we invade Iran Persia?

401 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:14:36pm

re: #400 Decatur Deb

Invade? Nah, from orbit.
/super-sarc!

402 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:14:53pm

Mothership Zeta has been defeated. I have about 600-1000 pounds of loot, and have spent about 6,000 caps on various repairs. My armor was in tatters by the end of the final battle.

403 Decatur Deb  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:15:59pm

re: #401 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Invade? Nah, from orbit.

Not very Homeric.

404 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:17:35pm

re: #403 Decatur Deb

Not very Homeric.

Sorry. NTTAWWT, but I'm just not into gay pr0n.
/wait, what?

405 Decatur Deb  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:20:40pm

It's late in CST, and going to be a lot later in 40 minutes. 'Nite, all.

406 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:21:50pm

re: #405 Decatur Deb

Right behind you, bro.

NTTAWWT either

407 Kragar  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:34:30pm

Jehovah's Witnesses church leader 'poisoned' by rival

THE Adelaide Hills Jehovah's Witnesses community has been rocked by the alleged poisoning of a church official and his young family by a rival.

The extraordinary series of events, in which glyphosate weed killer was injected into food, milk and fruit juice cartons in a fridge, was uncovered only after the victim set up a hidden camera in his kitchen - apparently catching the culprit in the act.

The victim took the unusual step after becoming suspicious that someone had been repeatedly entering his Stirling home and tampering with food while his family was at church meetings in nearby Crafers.

His family, including three young children aged five to 12, had also complained after coming home from church that food and drinks from the fridge had smelt and tasted toxic.

As a result of this covert camera footage, a man is now facing 12 charges in connection with the alleged poisoning scheme, which played out over a seven-month period until he was arrested in October last year.

408 Alexzander  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:38:37pm

Evening folks!

409 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:39:43pm

re: #377 ProGunLiberal

I'm sure not everybody in Wasilla is as big asshole as Palin and her family.

Some wonk actually pin-pointed the hit point in the game. Algonquin Provincial Park. It's in the boondocks.

There's some big-ass leeches in the lakes up there.

410 freetoken  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:40:59pm

re: #407 Kragar

Jehovah's Witnesses church leader 'poisoned' by rival

The extraordinary series of events, in which glyphosate weed killer was injected into food, milk and fruit juice cartons in a fridge, was uncovered only after the victim set up a hidden camera in his kitchen - apparently catching the culprit in the act.

Not very bright of the wanna-be killer. Glyphosate in the usual formulations available to just about anyone is considered one of the least dangerous of the herbicides. It kills plants systemically, not animals. And, you'd have to put so much of it in food that the odor, not to mention the taste, would be obvious right away.

411 freetoken  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:47:51pm
412 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:51:45pm

I like grits.
-Mitt Romney.


Good night everyone.

413 freetoken  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:56:38pm

re: #412 Varek Raith

You think he maybe meant he liked this?

414 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:59:38pm

Just watched the Obama commercial for the 2nd time.

1) Sarah makes no sense.
2) She still inspires hate.
3) I can't remember number three.

415 Alexzander  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 12:04:25am

re: #414 Iwouldprefernotto

Just watched the Obama commercial for the 2nd time.

1) Sarah makes no sense.
2) She still inspires hate.
3) I can't remember number three.

A case of Rick Perry. Should get that checked out.

416 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 12:09:41am

Mothership Zeta produced one last "fuck you" glitch.

It lost the Captain's Sidearm.

I had to go into the console commands, resurrect the Alien Captain, and take the it off of him.

417 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 12:25:55am

Her logic is flawless in its own little bubble: Obama is against the KKK, which did not exist before the Civil War.

But the Democrats are making a point: these idiots are not just completely wrong, they are completely and dangerously wrong and need to be stopped.

418 freetoken  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 12:32:14am
419 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 1:15:10am

re: #418 freetoken

Where's this from?

420 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 1:50:09am

Morning, all

421 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 1:53:56am

re: #420 researchok

Morning, all

Greetings, comrade.

422 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 1:57:38am

Nice to see you, Tovarisch

423 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 1:57:54am

Have you hit the streets yet today?

424 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 1:58:29am

re: #423 researchok

Not yet. Working on something at home.

425 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 1:59:48am

re: #424 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

Well, I shall be looking at the news clips later.

You'll be wearing a Yankees cap, right?

426 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:01:15am

re: #425 researchok

Yes, Yankees fur cap with ear flaps.

427 freetoken  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:03:08am

re: #419 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

Where's this from?

Faure was French.

428 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:03:11am

re: #426 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

With a Thermos of borscht.

Actually, I came to appreciate Russian borscht. Only place to get it here is Little Odessa in Coney Island

429 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:04:21am

re: #428 researchok

What about shchi?

430 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:04:54am

re: #429 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

What about shchi?

gesundheit!

431 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:05:50am

re: #429 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

Little Tokyo

432 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:06:10am

re: #430 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Danke schoen. But I didn't say schtschi yet!

433 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:06:31am

re: #431 researchok

Eh?

434 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:07:12am

re: #429 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

Seriously, borscht is my favorite

That and krupnik (Polish I think) barley soup

435 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:07:38am

re: #433 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

I was kidding- Sushi

436 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:08:28am

re: #435 researchok

Shchi is cabbage soup, right?

437 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:08:35am

re: #435 researchok

You should try good Russian shchi with sour cream some time.

438 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:08:50am

re: #436 researchok

yup

439 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:09:06am

New Virginia laws require an ultrasound examination before getting served a borscht. You have to hear the heartbeat of mother Russia.

440 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:09:46am

re: #438 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

There is something about all that Russian comfort food

441 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:10:32am

It really is good.

Unlike here, it seems comfort food is preferred over 'fancy food' there

442 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:10:34am

re: #437 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

You should try good Russian shchi with sour cream some time.

Щи да каша - пища наша.

443 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:11:43am

re: #441 researchok

Enough about food! I'm already hungry and there's still some work to do! ;)

444 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:12:11am

re: #442 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Just curious: googled or typed?

445 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:12:38am

Typed!

446 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:13:09am

I'm assuming

447 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:13:24am

re: #444 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

Just curious: googled or typed?

poured forth from my soul...

448 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:13:58am

re: #447 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

TY, Mr Gogol

449 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:14:05am

re: #447 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

poured forth from my soul...

Ну откуда же я знаю есть ли у тебя русская раскладка клавиатуры.

450 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:15:08am

re: #449 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

Better we talk about food...

451 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:15:58am

re: #450 researchok

Лучше не надо!

452 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:16:38am

Translate, please.

Too early to find the phrase book

453 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:17:44am

re: #452 researchok

Translate, please.

Too early to find the phrase book

Better not! (<- translation)

454 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:19:05am

I'm curious- have you stood in line to see pickled Lenin?

455 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:20:08am

re: #454 researchok

No. Moreover, I had many chances to see the body, but something always came up ;)

456 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:20:46am

Maybe in the future...

457 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:20:49am

re: #455 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

The reverence fascinates me.

458 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:22:28am

re: #457 researchok

More of an attraction/entertainment at this point.

459 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:23:27am

I never saw the Lenin mummy either when I lived in Moscow. And although I can change the keyboard over to Russian, i do not have a separate Russian keyboard, so i have to consult a chart I printed out. Hard to get used to.

Sometimes i even respond to those deperate Russian spam love letters from ostensible Russian women I get - just to practice. I know who is behind sending them and all the scams that go along.

At some point they start asking for money, so ar least hinting strongly, so I propose that they come over and let me pimp them off to my buddies for fifty euros a pop. Then they stop writing...

460 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:23:40am

re: #458 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

Now yes, but in the early mid 90.s....it was interesting to watch the crowds

461 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:24:20am

re: #459 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

LOL

462 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:25:35am

Somebody should do a trash horror movie about the Lenin mummy.

463 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:26:25am

What I recall most was the political awareness.

Even the crazies were pretty well informed

464 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:27:29am

re: #462 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

FYI, I would d rink with you

465 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:28:12am

re: #464 researchok

Only beer. ;)

466 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:29:24am

re: #465 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

No wodka???

467 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:29:49am

re: #466 researchok

Not a fan of strong alcohol in general.

468 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:30:39am

re: #467 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

We'll go easy.

A couple of bottles, no more.
/

469 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:31:46am

re: #468 researchok

We'll go easy.

A couple of bottles, no more.
/

You have been trained well, young jedi. //

470 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:32:19am

re: #468 researchok

We'll go easy.

A couple of bottles, no more.
/

Standard portion is a half-liter bottle for three persons. When I was there they still had the tear-off tops, so once you opened 'em you had to empty 'em.

471 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:32:37am

I learned. The hard way.

You are one tough lot

472 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:33:56am

re: #470 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Have you had potato vodka?

473 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:36:49am

re: #472 researchok

Have you had potato vodka?

I do not know where this concept comes from. One can distill alcohol from any form of starch, but vodka as most people know it (including Russians) is distilled from grain.

474 ozbloke  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:38:18am

re: #472 researchok

Have you had potato vodka?

I use to have it every workday winter morning, courtesy of my Yugoslav boss.
Many years ago...

Very nice.

475 ozbloke  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:41:10am

This ain't going to go down well.

US soldier opens fire on Afghan civilians

At least 10 people have been killed and another five wounded when a US soldier opened fire on Afghan civilians in the city of Kandahar.

The American soldier is believed to have wandered off a small base in Kandahar province around 3am, before entering a number of local homes and opening fire on Afghan civilians.

He is said to have suffered a nervous breakdown before carrying out the killings, and he has since been detained.

More here...

476 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:42:21am

re: #475 ozbloke

uh oh

477 ozbloke  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:43:57am

re: #476 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

Добрый вечер

478 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:44:32am

re: #477 ozbloke

Вероятно ты имел в виду "Добрый день"?

479 researchok  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:44:43am

re: #473 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Try it.

Science goes out the window.

480 ozbloke  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:46:11am

re: #478 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

Вероятно ты имел в виду "Добрый день"?

Это 9:45 вечера здесь, прости меня.

481 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:46:55am

re: #480 ozbloke

Гугл транслейт, или сам? ;)

482 ozbloke  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:48:42am

re: #481 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

Гугл транслейт ;)

483 ozbloke  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:49:33am

re: #481 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

Гугл транслейт, или сам? ;)

Если бы я провел больше времени, слушая мои Grahdfather, я был бы в состоянии сделать это.

484 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:49:43am

re: #482 ozbloke

Окей.

485 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:50:22am

re: #483 ozbloke

Откуда дедушка эмигрировал?

486 Kragar  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:52:05am

...

Commies.

487 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:52:53am

Буржуи.

488 ozbloke  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:58:54am

re: #485 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

Откуда дедушка эмигрировал?

Нет, мой дед родился 1908 года коммунист, и приехал в GDDR в некоторых случаях может. Он был разбитым сердцем, чтобы в стране строя.

489 Kragar  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:59:05am
490 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 4:37:38am

Epic rant.

[Link: markrathbun.wordpress.com...]

Jesus was David and slept with a dozen women, i am his great grandson from mary magdelines family tree.. Bush was wonderful saving Israel, the homeland of the jews. I am his great etc… grandson thru mary magdelines bloodline of his son from her giving birth. I was in prison and you loved me.The lord was indeed a convict. The three gods in heaven blessed America and Israel. Republicans, veterans, and police are disciplined trinities and have everlasting life. demonic-rats like Obama fry forever in torment with all the other disloyal blacks who prayed to the black lucifer

etc.

491 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 4:48:41am

re: #490 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

Please find out what he is on and order me a quarter-ounce's worth...

492 ozbloke  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 4:49:34am

re: #490 You voted for Palin, didn't you? /

What a fucken nutter.

493 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 6:37:44am

Why the hell does my cat love strawberries?

They can't even taste sweet, I don't think.

494 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 6:54:21am

re: #475 ozbloke

This ain't going to go down well.

US soldier opens fire on Afghan civilians

At least 10 people have been killed and another five wounded when a US soldier opened fire on Afghan civilians in the city of Kandahar.

The American soldier is believed to have wandered off a small base in Kandahar province around 3am, before entering a number of local homes and opening fire on Afghan civilians.

He is said to have suffered a nervous breakdown before carrying out the killings, and he has since been detained.

More here...

Sad story and potentially very bad for our efforts in Afghanistan. We'll have to wait and see how this goes over but there's a good possibility they wan't care much. They were much more upset over the Quran burning than the video of the pissing soldiers so this could go either way.

495 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 6:57:32am

re: #494 Killgore Trout

How and to what extent has this been blamed on Obama and his policies?

496 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:04:08am

re: #495 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

How and to what extent has this been blamed on Obama and his policies?

I'm sure the wingnuts will blame Obama's mishandling of the war somehow.

497 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:04:15am

re: #493 Obdicut

Why the hell does my cat love strawberries?

They can't even taste sweet, I don't think.

I've heard they taste like chicken.

498 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:04:27am

re: #488 ozbloke

Нет, мой дед родился 1908 года коммунист, и приехал в GDDR в некоторых случаях может. Он был разбитым сердцем, чтобы в стране строя.

Lies!

499 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:05:12am

re: #497 Pope Ron Polyp XXXVII

I've heard they taste like chicken.

The man who thought his strawberries tasted like a chicken. A novel.

500 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:05:41am

Rabbi Shifren is following me!

501 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:08:51am

re: #496 Killgore Trout

I'm sure the wingnuts will blame Obama's mishandling of the war somehow.

He is trying to return Afghanistan to the days before the Soviet occupation?

502 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:09:46am

re: #500 Gus

A Rabbi who stands for justice and personal liberty

And the rest don't? What a poser.

503 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:10:20am

re: #502 Martryr Cookie

And the rest don't? What a poser.

You've heard of him right?

504 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:11:18am

re: #503 Gus

We've discussed him here.

505 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:11:39am

re: #72 b_sharp

Whitney Houston.

Zombie GWTW!

506 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:11:48am

re: #504 Martryr Cookie

We've discussed him here.

Yep. We have.

507 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:13:06am

re: #506 Gus

Proudly features photo with Orly on his site.

508 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:15:02am

re: #507 Martryr Cookie

Proudly features photo with Orly on his site.

He's my spy. They assign one from time to time to keep track of what I'm Tweeting. Then they alert the Twingnuts of my movements.

//

509 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:15:52am

Because I am like the VC! Bwahahahaha!

510 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:16:38am

Thời gian để đi đến kế hoạch B!Chúng tôi tấn công Breitbart.com vào buổi sáng!

511 Decatur Deb  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:19:09am

re: #507 Martryr Cookie

Proudly features photo with Orly on his site.

President Obama should give him a hug--make it all good.

512 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:19:28am

re: #510 Gus

Thời gian để đi đến kế hoạch B!Chúng tôi tấn công Breitbart.com vào buổi sáng!

513 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:19:34am

In other news. OWS member Bob McNulty double parked his van in front of the 1st Assembly of God Church on 38th and Vine. Police department reports that there was a minor struggle with Mr. McNulty but after he physically resisted the ticket he finally gave up, signed the ticket, and merrily drove off.

514 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:20:33am

re: #512 Martryr Cookie

[Embedded content]

Awesome! She missed her calling. She could have been a comedian.

515 mumbly-joe  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:21:15am

re: #73 Lidane

I'm a little late to the party here, but what Palin is claiming is that Obama, as a black man in authority, clearly aspires to or desires a world where white people are enslaved by The Blacks, either out of a sense of payback or "reparations", or because this is obviously what every race wants to do to another. Note that this is seriously Stormfront-level shit, but it's pretty obviously what she's getting at: Obama wants white slavery.

And, while it's kinda weird to be focusing on Sarah Palin at this particular point, the ad has a point here: this sort of overt white nationalist conspiracy-mongering absolutely is completely wrong and dangerous, exists several steps beyond the pale for serious and civil discourse, and says a great deal about how heavily white supremacist and other far-right memes have been mainstreamed by conservative media. None of us should be comfortable with the fact that a major news network and Republican candidate-making machine is mainstreaming white supremacism.

For me, the only question is whether Palin's claim, with all it signifies, would have been as well-received if it had been expressed plainly, without the obfuscating word-salad. And frankly, I'm not terribly sure one way or another at this point.

516 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:21:23am

Jerry Lewis in his prime could only dream of such a performance!

517 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:24:58am
518 Decatur Deb  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:30:08am

re: #497 Pope Ron Polyp XXXVII

I've heard they taste like chicken.

Anonymous Cat-eaters:

519 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:33:43am
Tilton vehemently denied the allegations and took to the airwaves on November 22, 1991, on a special episode of Success-N-Life entitled "Primetime Lies" to air his side of the story. Tilton asserted that the prayer requests found in garbage bags shown on the Primetime Live investigation were stolen from the ministry and placed in the dumpster for a sensational camera shot, and that he prayed over every prayer request received, to the point that he "laid on top of those prayer requests so much that 'the chemicals actually got into my bloodstream, and... I had two small strokes in my brain."[13] Tilton remained defiant on claims regarding his use of donations to his ministry to fund various purchases, asking, "Ain't I allowed to have nothing?" with regards to his ownership of multiple multimillion-dollar estates. Tilton also claimed that he needed plastic surgery to repair capillary damage to his lower eyelids from ink that seeped into his skin from the prayer requests.[14]
520 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:33:52am

re: #517 Martryr Cookie

[Embedded content]

521 Pete Puma  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:37:49am

You want to know the saddest thing about this? Some right wing group could turn that into a "Draft Palin" spot with barely any editing at all.

523 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:41:11am

The Rush Limbaugh Show: brought to you by Barney's Butt Crack Balm™!

524 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:43:47am

re: #515 mumbly-joe

The point is, there are a lot of people who just hate Obama because he is black. They know enough not to voice that sentiment too openly because they know it will disqualify them from further discourse in most circles outside fellow bigots and raciests.

But it makes them very open and receptive toward any argument that voices their opposition to Obama along with everything he is, everything he stands for, evrything he advocates and everyone he associates with (past and present) without just coming out and saying "I hate him because he is a n****!"

525 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:46:29am

Gay marriage: Roman Catholic archbishops step up fight

The Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales is intensifying its campaign against the government's plan to legalise same-sex marriage.

In a letter being read in 2,500 parish churches, the Church's two most senior archbishops say the change would reduce the significance of marriage.

The letter says Roman Catholics have a duty to make sure it does not happen.

The government wants to introduce gay marriage by 2015, but says churches would not have to perform weddings.

Douche.

526 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:51:43am

re: #525 Gus

Please explain to these RC geezers again that there is a distinction between the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony and the legal status of civil marriage.

They may deny their sacraments to anyone they see as unfit, but the legal status is a right that cannot be denied based on race or gender.

Granted, a few centuries ago, there was no disctinction between the two, the sacrament and the legal status were identical and inseparable. These fellows are several centuries behind the times on a lot of matters.

527 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:59:12am

This war is lost.

528 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:04:26am

New Statesman - Why are there so few right-wing rock stars?

Excerpt:

After a drunken concert appearance by Eric Clapton in August 1976 where the guitarist repeatedly shouted the National Front's slogan "Keep Britain White" and called for action to be taken to "get the coons out", it was on the letters pages of the NME that the Rock Against Racism movement coalesced. In the 1980s, during Neil Kinnock's latter period as leader of the Labour party, no daily newspaper would give him even the smallest piece of positive coverage: NME put him on the cover twice, once, to their publisher's chagrin, the week before the 1987 general election.

Also see: Rock Against Racism

529 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:05:35am

re: #528 Gus

New Statesman - Why are there so few right-wing rock stars?

Excerpt:

Also see: Rock Against Racism

One Ted Nugent is worth ten dozen Dixie Chicks!

530 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:06:29am

re: #529 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

One Ted Nugent is worth ten dozen Dixie Chicks!

Wango tango!

He's a war hero you know. A "man of valor."

//

531 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:07:45am

re: #399 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

One thousand miles from safety.
One thousand miles from the sea.
One thousand miles with enemies on all sides.

Sounds like the back cover to a Frank Miller graphic novel, and the Anabasis story would make great fodder for one of those.

532 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:13:24am

how long until the Commonwealth of Virginia institutes this practice? [Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

533 erik_t  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:13:48am

re: #526 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Please explain to these RC geezers again that there is a distinction between the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony and the legal status of civil marriage.

They may deny their sacraments to anyone they see as unfit, but the legal status is a right that cannot be denied based on race or gender.

Granted, a few centuries ago, there was no disctinction between the two, the sacrament and the legal status were identical and inseparable. These fellows are several centuries behind the times on a lot of matters.

Eh. Demographics are on my side. The geezers can realize this difference themselves or they can throw a never-ending hissy fit. Frankly I don't give a shit.

534 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:19:00am

re: #528 Gus

You've got to be a special kind of asshole to make your money from music pioneered by blacks and then shit all over them like Clapton does.

535 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:20:08am

re: #534 Obdicut

You've got to be a special kind of asshole to make your money from music pioneered by blacks and then shit all over them like Clapton does.

That's not a "youthful indiscretion?"

536 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:21:40am

re: #528 Gus

New Statesman - Why are there so few right-wing rock stars?

Excerpt:

Also see: Rock Against Racism

1. Succeeding commercially is hard, and and lots of the 'suits an aspiring musician has to deal with are natural Republicans/Conservatives.

2. Musicians, like liberals, often deal with feelings and intangibles. Conservatives tend to focus on the economic facts of the business and are often uninterested in the 'art' or 'fairness' of it. To a musician, Mitt Romney really is the guy who canceled your band's album to focus on something he thought had greater commercial potential. They don't like that (though I don't mind it, as a feel executives should maintain a 'business-first' mentality).

3. In a similar vein, the conservative focus on economics and practicality does not lend itself to art creation.

4. Since the above facts are why most musicians are liberal, it also makes the music business hostile to conservatives. Most people don't like to have the one or two people around who put out views they don't like, and most people also don't want to be that person.

Note: The above does have an exception in Country music, which is much more likely to have conservative listeners and to have its musicians come from more conservative and rural locals.

537 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:21:46am

re: #535 Gus

That's not a "youthful indiscretion?"

I seem to recall he ws pretty screwed up personally at the time.

538 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:25:16am

re: #534 Obdicut

You've got to be a special kind of asshole to make your money from music pioneered by blacks and then shit all over them like Clapton does.

He likely didn't know or didn't care. There's plenty of racists out there to supply him with a literally white-washed history to show that blacks either didn't pioneer rock & roll or that their "degeneracy" kept it from succeeding till white people stepped in to manage them.

That would still leave Eric Clapton an asshole, of course.

539 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:26:21am

re: #528 Gus

New Statesman - Why are there so few right-wing rock stars?

Excerpt:

Also see: Rock Against Racism

John Lennon was a Closet Republican

540 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:27:46am

re: #536 Dark_Falcon

2. Musicians, like liberals, often deal with feelings and intangibles. Conservatives tend to focus on the economic facts of the business and are often uninterested in the 'art' or 'fairness' of it.

It is especially hilarious that you make this bizarre claim in a thread where there is a video of someone who cannot speak in normal sentences, but instead emotes only in feelings and intangibles, and yet is a Conservative heroine specifically because she appeals entirely to feelings and intangibles.

541 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:28:37am

John Lennon Slams Socialism & Presidential Hero Worship

542 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:31:18am

re: #536 Dark_Falcon

All professions attract a certain personality type. In general, rock music attracts more liberal personalities just as a lot of the arts. As you note country music attracts more conservative personalities. But these are not rock solid rules either. There are variations and unique cases in all professions. You won't find many liberals in the Roman Catholic cardinalship. With rock music they are there. It's also impossible to make a general rule such as with conservatives in rock since despite what we see on the internet, conservatism is a spectrum and there are varying degrees of a right wing mind and its opposite.

543 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:32:36am

re: #536 Dark_Falcon

3. In a similar vein, the conservative focus on economics and practicality

It's actually impressive that you can hold this doublethink in your head, after seeing page after page after page reporting Conservative policy focus on everything but economics and practicality. Have you not noticed the laserlike focus on gays, uteri, and hating Democrats?

544 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:32:47am

re: #535 Gus

That's not a "youthful indiscretion?"

He repeated his support for Powell a couple of years ago.

545 Tigger2005  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:33:33am

re: #536 Dark_Falcon

1. Succeeding commercially is hard, and and lots of the 'suits an aspiring musician has to deal with are natural Republicans/Conservatives.

2. Musicians, like liberals, often deal with feelings and intangibles. Conservatives tend to focus on the economic facts of the business and are often uninterested in the 'art' or 'fairness' of it. To a musician, Mitt Romney really is the guy who canceled your band's album to focus on something he thought had greater commercial potential. They don't like that (though I don't mind it, as a feel executives should maintain a 'business-first' mentality).

3. In a similar vein, the conservative focus on economics and practicality does not lend itself to art creation.

4. Since the above facts are why most musicians are liberal, it also makes the music business hostile to conservatives. Most people don't like to have the one or two people around who put out views they don't like, and most people also don't want to be that person.

Note: The above does have an exception in Country music, which is much more likely to have conservative listeners and to have its musicians come from more conservative and rural locals.

Rebellion used to sell. The "Establishment" promoted rock'n'roll, even though it was supposedly antithetical to Establishment values, because it sold records. They didn't really have much fear that a rock'n'roll communal utopia was going to replace Capitalism and they were of course right. So all those idealistic artists could play their little hearts out screaming about the Man, while the Man happily booked concert dates and sold albums...LOL

546 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:34:15am

re: #536 Dark_Falcon

Musicians, like liberals, often deal with feelings and intangibles.

What crap. Listen to any right-wing politician; they talk about feelings all the fucking time.

547 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:34:59am

re: #539 Killgore Trout

One guy's hearsay.

548 Tigger2005  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:36:13am

re: #546 Obdicut

What crap. Listen to any right-wing politician; they talk about feelings all the fucking time.

Feelings, whoa whoa whoa

549 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:36:26am

re: #544 Obdicut

He repeated his support for Powell a couple of years ago.

Really? This is all new to me. I used to have a general rule WRT to artists and musicians which was to ignore their personal lives and personal beliefs. Of course I was never an Eric Clapton fan so that's why I'm ignorant to this.

The night Eric wasn’t so wonderful

Like Enoch Powell, Clapton has never taken back his comments or compromised his position. As recently as December 2007 he appeared on the South Bank Show and told Melvyn Bragg that he wasn't a racist but still believed Powell's comments were relevant. Unlike Powell, however, Eric Clapton's career has enjoyed a resurgence - he was given a CBE in 2004, reunited with Cream in 2005 and will be headlining this year's Hard Rock Calling in Hyde Park. Like David Bowie, who once told an interviewer that Britain would benefit from a Fascist dictator, "Slowhand" Clapton has managed to emerge from the allegations of racism seemingly unharmed.

550 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:38:16am

re: #536 Dark_Falcon

2. Musicians, like liberals, often deal with feelings and intangibles. Conservatives tend to focus on the economic facts of the business and are often uninterested in the 'art' or 'fairness' of it.

Oh please, all those snotty prideful-patriotic gut feelings and religious ululations are the bread and butter of an average American conservative.

551 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:38:46am

re: #549 Gus

Yeah, I generally expect musicians to be uninformed and have a really weird view of the world. The ones who tend not to are the ones who actually have spent a lot of their time doing something aside from music.

552 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:38:50am

re: #547 Martryr Cookie

One guy's hearsay.

He matured towards the end of his life. If you listen to some of his last interviews he expresses left wing radicalism as youthful nonsense and unrealistic bullshit. Those interviews don't get a lot of attention because they don't fit with the desired narrative about his legacy but they are very interesting. He wasn't a full blown wingnut but he was more practical.

553 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:40:53am

re: #552 Killgore Trout

All I'm saying is that "he became a Republican" claim is unreliable hearsay. That he moved from the far left is quite obvious. That does not equal becoming (like) a Republican.

554 Lidane  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:42:34am

re: #536 Dark_Falcon

2. Musicians, like liberals, often deal with feelings and intangibles. Conservatives tend to focus on the economic facts of the business and are often uninterested in the 'art' or 'fairness' of it.

3. In a similar vein, the conservative focus on economics and practicality does not lend itself to art creation.

If you honestly believe that conservatives these days don't care about their feelings, you haven't been paying attention to the right wing since 2008. They're all about whining about how the world isn't fair because a black man got elected POTUS, and he now wants to turn white people into slaves.

And sorry to break it to you, but it's a fantasy to think that conservatives are so concerned with the economy and practicality. Nothing about the GOP's actions since Reagan show any concern with either of those things. You're fooling yourself if you think they're a fiscal responsibility party.

555 erik_t  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:43:51am

re: #554 Lidane

Um... film at twelve eleven.

556 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:44:26am

Well well ,,, one more ACC Basketball game and HELL WEEK IS OVER!!

I'll finally have two days in a row off!!!

557 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:44:52am

re: #555 erik_t

Um... film at twelve eleven.

Wouldn;t that be thirteen after we pushed the clocks forward this morning !?!?!

558 CriticalDragon1177  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:46:11am

Charles Johnson

Someone should ask her why Obama would want to do this? Seriously, wouldn't he suffer more given the fact that he's black, if we went back to the days prior to the civil war?

559 erik_t  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:46:25am

re: #557 sattv4u2

Wouldn;t that be thirteen after we pushed the clocks forward this morning !?!?!

Shit if I can keep track. Thank god we all have cell phones now.

560 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:46:27am

re: #553 Martryr Cookie

All I'm saying is that "he became a Republican" claim is unreliable hearsay. That he moved from the far left is quite obvious. That does not equal becoming (like) a Republican.

Also keep in mind that this was Republican circa what year?

561 Digital Display  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:47:18am

re: #556 sattv4u2

Well well ,,, one more ACC Basketball game and HELL WEEK IS OVER!!

I'll finally have two days in a row off!!!

March Madness next week..I love it! Now get back to work! LOL

562 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:47:45am

re: #494 Killgore Trout

Sad story and potentially very bad for our efforts in Afghanistan. We'll have to wait and see how this goes over but there's a good possibility they wan't care much. They were much more upset over the Quran burning than the video of the pissing soldiers so this could go either way.

It could "go either way?"

Really?

First, what is "they?" The entire Afghan population? Extremists?

Do you seriously think that other civilian deaths, even those under circumstances far more easily defended than this one, haven't been extremely problematic for the American military, caused a great deal of concern, etc?

563 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:48:01am

re: #560 Gus

Also keep in mind that this was Republican circa what year?

I think about 1980.

564 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:48:39am

re: #560 Gus

Around the nutso Reagan time.

565 BongCrodny  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:50:00am

John Lennon's last political statement, December 1980:

“We are with you in spirit.… In this beautiful country where democracy is the very foundation of its constitution, it is sad that we have to still fight for equal rights and equal pay for the citizens. Boycott it must be, if it is the only way to bring justice and restore the dignity of the constitution for the sake of all citizens of the US and their children.

“Peace and love, John Lennon and Yoko Ono. New York City, December, 1980.”

The Nation - John Lennon - NOT a Closet Republican

566 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:50:04am

re: #564 Martryr Cookie

Around the nutso Reagan time.

Yep. The televangelist influence on the GOP was just getting started.

567 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:50:57am

re: #565 BongCrodny

John Lennon's last political statement, December 1980:

The Nation - John Lennon - NOT a Closet Republican

Boycott!

568 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:51:58am

re: #536 Dark_Falcon

1. Succeeding commercially is hard, and and lots of the 'suits an aspiring musician has to deal with are natural Republicans/Conservatives.

2. Musicians, like liberals, often deal with feelings and intangibles. Conservatives tend to focus on the economic facts of the business and are often uninterested in the 'art' or 'fairness' of it. To a musician, Mitt Romney really is the guy who canceled your band's album to focus on something he thought had greater commercial potential. They don't like that (though I don't mind it, as a feel executives should maintain a 'business-first' mentality).

3. In a similar vein, the conservative focus on economics and practicality does not lend itself to art creation.

4. Since the above facts are why most musicians are liberal, it also makes the music business hostile to conservatives. Most people don't like to have the one or two people around who put out views they don't like, and most people also don't want to be that person.

Note: The above does have an exception in Country music, which is much more likely to have conservative listeners and to have its musicians come from more conservative and rural locals.

So by your logic, country music must be less "emotional" than other types of music since conservatives are less emotional.

Have you ever listened to country music?

569 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:52:25am

re: #561 HoosierHoops

March Madness next week..I love it! Now get back to work! LOL

We'll be busy the 23rd, 24th and 25th when the South Regionals hit Atlanta

570 efuseakay  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:53:25am

Re: the shooting in Afghanistan... the Freepers and Derpways are going crazy about this... lots of "kill them all" sentiment. But what else do you expect...

571 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:54:05am

re: #567 Gus

The newfound love has just died!//

572 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:55:05am

re: #570 efuseakay

Re: the shooting in Afghanistan... the Freepers and Derpways are going crazy about this... lots of "kill them all" sentiment. But what else do you expect...

There were a lot of superiority statements after the Koran events. Now we see the other side of the coin.

573 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:56:45am

re: #546 Obdicut

What crap. Listen to any right-wing politician; they talk about feelings all the fucking time.

That is one of the most often heard and completely absurd conservative memes of all time.

My guess is that conservatives repeat it so often because it makes them feel more emotionally comforted.

574 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:57:42am

re: #572 Martryr Cookie

There were a lot of superiority statements after the Koran events. Now we see the other side of the coin.

March 16, 1968 -- 5 days away from the 44th anniversary of the My Lai Massacre. While not equal it does provide us with a point for introspection.

575 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:59:07am
576 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:59:19am

re: #573 Talking Point Detective

Even most of the 'conservative' fiscal arguments these days are posited in very, very emotional terms, about feeling upset about paying for things for others, rather than in any actual cost-benefit analysis.

577 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:59:26am

re: #541 Killgore Trout

John Lennon Slams Socialism & Presidential Hero Worship

[Embedded content]

Did you post that clip as some kind of evidence for your gullible acceptance of the claim that Lenon was a closet Republican?

Listen to the clip again and see if what you hear sounds like Republican rhetoric.

578 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:01:41am

re: #576 Obdicut

Even most of the 'conservative' fiscal arguments these days are posited in very, very emotional terms, about feeling upset about paying for things for others, rather than in any actual cost-benefit analysis.

Absolutely. Much of the "conservatives" rhetoric is about appealing to emotions: hatred, fear, etc. It's just a ridiculous argument.

579 erik_t  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:02:01am

ATTENTION: RIGHT NOW, A FULL HOUR OF DUCT TAPE MYTHS ON MYTHBUSTERS

580 Locker  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:03:37am

Conservatives are completely motivated by emotion i.e. fear and anger. I have never seen a bigger bunch of chicken shits in my entire life. Scared of and mad at everything that isn't white, christian and patriarchal.

It's amazing that this one trick pony has so much traction for so long. Accuse the lefties of doing exactly what we do and fight against our own invention.

581 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:07:05am

"Barrack Obama is taking us to a time before the Civil War!"

Seems like an unemotional and rational statement to me.

//

582 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:10:59am

re: #581 Gus

"Un-American" = intangible, emotional descriptor. "Flag pin" = emotional statement, absence of which is strongly objected to by the Rs. "Values" = emotional, intangible descriptor. Religion, faith = system based on intangible postulates.

583 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:12:42am

re: #580 Locker

Conservatives are completely motivated by emotion i.e. fear and anger. I have never seen a bigger bunch of chicken shits in my entire life. Scared of and mad at everything that isn't white, christian and patriarchal.

It's amazing that this one trick pony has so much traction for so long. Accuse the lefties of doing exactly what we do and fight against our own invention.

The conservative movement has been overtaken by a hysterical new alliance with shock-jocks and rebel rousers. While objectionable in the past it was less off kilter with likes of more erudite men. The basic building blocks were there but it wasn't this new form of what many call a "clown show" or a "circus." It's leaders have been embraced and their line-up includes the now deceased Andrew Breitbart; Glenn Beck; Rush Limbaugh; Sarah Palin; etc. The muscle heads have taken over the asylum.

584 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:13:03am

re: #577 Talking Point Detective

Did you post that clip as some kind of evidence for your gullible acceptance of the claim that Lenon was a closet Republican?

Listen to the clip again and see if what you hear sounds like Republican rhetoric.

I posted that as an example of how his political views had matured since he was a kid.

585 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:16:34am

re: #582 Martryr Cookie

"Un-American" = intangible, emotional descriptor. "Flag pin" = emotional statement, absence of which is strongly objected to by the Rs. "Values" = emotional, intangible descriptor. Religion, faith = system based on intangible postulates.

Yep. Word. Symbols. It's easy to say "Un-American." See? I just did it. It's easy to put on a "flag pin" or stick on a bumper sticker. The Republican Party invented sound bite politics. It's founder being Ronald Reagan.

"My flag pin invalidates your argument and you sir are a treasonous Un-American Communist!"

It's sort of like going into a debate with Hitchens and simply exclaiming to him, "you will burn in hell Mr. Hitchens!"

586 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:17:22am

re: #584 Killgore Trout

I posted that as an example of how his political views had matured since he was a kid.

His taste in women didn't!!

///

587 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:18:24am

re: #584 Killgore Trout

I posted that as an example of how his political views had matured since he was a kid.

His political views matured into thinking that the radicalism of the sixties played an important role in helping to understand what is realistic. I would say that your simplistic characterization of what he says as "slamming socialism" and "hero worship" is an example of confirmation bias, and as such, it sure looks like an attempt to deflect from the gullibility reflected in your earlier post that Lenon was a "closet Republican.."

588 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:19:19am

re: #585 Gus

"My flag pin invalidates your argument and you sir are a treasonous Un-American Communist!"

!

589 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:19:58am

Like that bologna from Palin in the above video where she's saying that Obama lacks valor. Since when are presidents judged by their valour? Maybe they've displayed valor of sorts in their youth but I never heard of the word valor associated with presidents. This is a presidency not knighthood. You can apply the word valor to president but its usage is very rare.

590 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:21:18am

re: #589 Gus

Like that bologna from Palin in the above video where she's saying that Obama lacks valor. Since when are presidents judged by their valour? Maybe they've displayed valor of sorts in their youth but I never heard of the word valor associated with presidents. This is a presidency not knighthood. You can apply the word valor to president but its usage is very rare.

I caught you, you British spy!//

591 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:22:37am

re: #590 Martryr Cookie

I caught you, you British spy!//

I demand to see your tax returns!

This is my endeavour.

//

592 erik_t  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:23:19am

re: #589 Gus

Like that bologna from Palin in the above video where she's saying that Obama lacks valor. Since when are presidents judged by their valour? Maybe they've displayed valor of sorts in their youth but I never heard of the word valor associated with presidents. This is a presidency not knighthood. You can apply the word valor to president but its usage is very rare.

Needs moar 'Commander-in-Chief'.

593 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:25:24am

Or take the Pledge of Allegiance. Not the initial form authored by a socialist, no, the conservative God-powered version. The idolization of this version and trying to ram it down the throats of everyone in a sort of a creepy ritual that suffocates the original noble spirit of the Pledge - conservative emotionalism.

594 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:25:58am

Hey all!

So, having to share the world with non-whites on an equal basis under the law is somehow turning back the clock and flip-flopping discrimination?

Am I getting that right?

How is everyone?

595 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:26:01am

re: #592 erik_t

Needs moar 'Commander-in-Chief'.

Yeah. Get on an S-3 Viking and press the "autoland button" (if even that) then pretend that you actually landed on an aircraft carrier.

596 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:27:34am

Crying Glenn Beck.
Ergo your argument is invalid.

597 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:27:44am

re: #594 ggt

Hey all!

So, having to share the world with non-whites on an equal basis under the law is somehow turning back the clock and flip-flopping discrimination?

Am I getting that right?

How is everyone?

If you drop a hit of acid then Palin makes sense.

//

598 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:29:14am

re: #589 Gus

Like that bologna from Palin in the above video where she's saying that Obama lacks valor. Since when are presidents judged by their valour? Maybe they've displayed valor of sorts in their youth but I never heard of the word valor associated with presidents. This is a presidency not knighthood. You can apply the word valor to president but its usage is very rare.

Yes, you have excellent foreign policy credentials, but how would you fare against the Rancor? [pulls the trap door lever]

Note: I was going to try for a retiarus versus secutor joke, but couldn't bring the pieces together properly.

599 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:29:17am

It's the new wingnut "racism." Being anti-racist makes you a racist. Or something.

You think that Peter Brimelow showed up at CPAC by accident?

600 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:30:17am
I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy. We had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul; a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country.
601 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:31:14am
602 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:31:51am

re: #601 Gus

Majorly fucked up. This is bad.

603 jaunte  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:31:51am

re: #589 Gus

Like that bologna from Palin in the above video where she's saying that Obama lacks valor. Since when are presidents judged by their valour? Maybe they've displayed valor of sorts in their youth but I never heard of the word valor associated with presidents. This is a presidency not knighthood. You can apply the word valor to president but its usage is very rare.

Sometimes valor for a politician just means finishing out their term, even when it's 'hard.' Stunning that Palin the quitter has such a blind spot for her own actions that she feels free to criticize anyone.

604 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:32:32am

re: #600 Martryr Cookie

...

Yes but that apologist Barrack HUSSEIN Obummer called Putin to congratulate him! No leader of the free world did this!

606 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:33:28am

re: #604 Gus

Wait, THE leader of the free world did this a day earlier than Obama? Nevermind.//

607 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:33:50am

Cuteness for the hour.

With or without the words!

608 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:35:05am

re: #597 Gus

If you drop a hit of acid then Palin makes sense.

//

B . b . b. BUT, the sound of THAT VOICE!

I don't think I could handle that on an hallucinogen.

609 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:36:01am

re: #606 Martryr Cookie Monster

Wait, THE leader of the free world did this a day earlier than Obama? Nevermind.//

I should check and see if the dopes at #tcot are still complaining about this even though I clued them in that their St. Netanyahu had done the same thing but I really don't feel like reading their crap just yet. They really do make me feel ill. What's funny about all that is how clueless they are about Netanyahu, Lieberman, et al, and their new found love for Putin.

610 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:37:31am

Evangelical Atheism? Curious what our Muslim readers might think of this...

611 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:39:39am
612 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:41:22am

re: #608 ggt

B . b . b. BUT, the sound of THAT VOICE!

I don't think I could handle that on an hallucinogen.

Don't do it. Hallucinogens plus Sarah Palin is a formula for waking up three weeks later in a Phuket hotel room with a suitcase full of panda meat and the Coleridge poem "Kubla Khan" painted on the walls in hoisin sauce.

613 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:41:49am

re: #610 Daniel Ballard

Evangelical Atheism? Curious what our Muslim readers might think of this...

There are atheists in Muslim communities. They are attempting to reach out to those people and let them know that in this free society they have access to people of like mind.

614 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:43:01am

re: #609 Gus

Any Israeli PM will deal friendly with Putin, at least in foreseeable future, so that's not an issue for me (Lieberman's speech is something else). But the double standard is pretty blatant.

615 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:43:23am

re: #610 Daniel Ballard

Evangelical Atheism? Curious what our Muslim readers might think of this...

iirc similar billboards popped up in the south (bible belt) a year or two ago with the same message re: Christians

616 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:44:21am

re: #613 Gus

Choke them!

617 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:45:11am

So we invade Muslim countries and admonish them to become more "secular" and "free and democratic" yet these same invaders admonish secularism within our borders.

Film at 11.

618 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:45:44am

re: #612 The Ghost of a Flea

Don't do it. Hallucinogens plus Sarah Palin is a formula for waking up three weeks later in a Phuket hotel room with a suitcase full of panda meat and the Coleridge poem "Kubla Khan" painted on the walls in hoisin sauce.

minus a kidney?

619 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:46:24am

re: #616 Martryr Cookie Monster

Choke them!

Don't you love how any advertising or rhetoric involving atheism suddenly becomes "evangelism"?

620 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:47:18am

re: #619 Gus

Well, in this case it is preachy ;)

Doesn't bother me, but - meh.

621 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:47:55am

re: #620 Martryr Cookie Monster

Well, in this case it is preachy ;)

Doesn't bother me, but - meh.

Paterson. Meh.

622 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:48:01am

re: #613 Gus

I think the line "You know it's a myth" might be offensive to the faithful. I sometimes wonder with evangelism how much the need to "spread the word" reflects an inner insecurity. It's a slightly negative ad, a positive angle of pro science might be more welcome. Might actually work better.

623 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:48:33am

Never did acid.

Had some high-powered antihistamine prescribed once that gave side-effects that seemed similar to other's reminisces of acid trips.

Really didn't like it.

Could breathe thru the nose really well tho.

624 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:48:42am

re: #622 Daniel Ballard

Exactly what I was thinking.

625 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:48:59am

re: #622 Daniel Ballard

I think the line "You know it's a myth" might be offensive to the faithful. I sometimes wonder with evangelism how much the need to "spread the word" reflects an inner insecurity. It's a slightly negative ad, a positive angle of pro science might be more welcome. Might actually work better.

I'm offended on a daily basis. They can handle it.

626 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:49:45am

re: #622 Daniel Ballard

I think the line "You know it's a myth" might be offensive to the faithful. I sometimes wonder with evangelism how much the need to "spread the word" reflects an inner insecurity. It's a slightly negative ad, a positive angle of pro science might be more welcome. Might actually work better.

I'd rather see billboards that highlight the basic similarities of all faiths with secular humanism.

You know: Do not do to others what you find offensive.

Don't lie, cheat, steal.

keep your word.

You know, the basics.

627 jaunte  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:49:49am

Stephen Moore is such a tool.

628 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:50:09am

Get your own billboard.

629 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:50:39am

re: #628 Gus

Get your own billboard.

nah, no one would read it.

630 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:51:37am

re: #629 ggt

nah, no one would read it.

They would if there was nudidittity on it!!
/

631 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:52:28am

Image: Billboard.jpg

Keep driving!

632 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:53:41am
633 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:53:52am

re: #619 Gus

Don't you love how any advertising or rhetoric involving atheism suddenly becomes "evangelism"?

I did not intend it in any pejorative sense, just a common descriptor from religion on a religious topic. "Spreading the word" as it were.

634 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:53:55am

re: #610 Daniel Ballard

re: #615 sattv4u2

iirc similar billboards popped up in the south (bible belt) a year or two ago with the same message re: Christians

Image: Ireport_billboard.jpg

635 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:56:12am

re: #633 Daniel Ballard

I did not intend it in any pejorative sense, just a common descriptor from religion on a religious topic. "Spreading the word" as it were.

People want to "spread the word" about everything. I see nothing wrong with atheists doing the same. Frankly, it's about time and I'm glad that atheism if finally coming out of the closet. No, it's not always perfect but nothing is ever perfect. All I know is that after years of seeing atheism in the closet and relegated to the same level as mass-murder it's good to see that atheism is finally coming into the mainstream.

636 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:57:35am

This is a winner:

Image: ingodwetrustn.jpg

637 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:58:37am

Keep in mind that I just went through one whole Bronco's football season in Denver and had to suffer through Tebow. I took it like a man. I look forward to when the Bronco's will accept an outspoken atheist as their quarterback. In the year 3012.

638 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 9:59:28am

re: #636 Martryr Cookie Monster

This is a winner:

Image: ingodwetrustn.jpg

Keep driving!

What's with the weird light in the background? Could it be...

639 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:00:15am

re: #638 Gus

?

640 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:01:08am

re: #639 Martryr Cookie Monster

?

the "halo" effect behind the little girls head, I would imagine

641 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:01:14am

re: #639 Martryr Cookie Monster

?

Could be my monitor. The signs seem extra bright.

Image: birth%20certificate%20billboard.jpg

642 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:01:15am

re: #637 Gus

It'll be sooner than that. I just don't like snotty sounding billboards, whatever the cause.

Also, I say hand the soldier who massacred 16 Afghans to the Afghani Government. This sort of atrocity deserves the death penalty.

To me, the Death Penalty should only be used in particularly atrocious situations.

This falls under my definition.

643 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:01:27am

re: #633 Daniel Ballard

I don't think atheism can be evangelized. I've never met a single atheist who became an atheist because they read an argument or something by another atheist.

Most people who wind up rejecting the doctrine of their religions, who wind up believing it's a myth, don't become atheists. It's easy to figure out that the specific stuff in a religion-- like, the belief in miracles-- is just myths about magic. But human beings are biologically wired to have pattern-recognition in their brain that, combined with emotions like hope 'n' all, create a feeling of connectedness to a larger consciousness. People want there to be someone listening, and they look at the world and see patterns of design and fate and the rest where there are none.

So most people who figure out their religion is a myth doesn't become atheists, they just become 'spiritual' or whatever. And that's fine. The problems with religion come from those people who think they know that god wants everyone to act a certain way, not from the people who just feel that connection.

644 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:01:45am

re: #642 ProGunLiberal

It'll be sooner than that. I just don't like snotty sounding billboards, whatever the cause.

Also, I say hand the soldier who massacred 16 Afghans to the Afghani Government. This sort of atrocity deserves the death penalty.

To me, the Death Penalty should only be used in particularly atrocious situations.

This falls under my definition.

I don't think the snotty billboards help either.

645 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:01:57am

re: #618 ggt

minus a kidney?

No...plus.

646 Digital Display  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:02:25am

re: #631 Gus

Image: Billboard.jpg

Keep driving!

If you travel through the Ozarks you will find literally hundreds of Billboards about family values and God..I found it ironic that coming in 2nd place were signs for XXX and P0rn stores.. In fact they have this one place that is like the Wal-Mart of p0rn super stores..Next time i drive highway 44 I'm so going to stop there and take pictures...

647 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:02:36am

re: #635 Gus

People want to "spread the word" about everything. I see nothing wrong with atheists doing the same. Frankly, it's about time and I'm glad that atheism if finally coming out of the closet. No, it's not always perfect but nothing is ever perfect. All I know is that after years of seeing atheism in the closet and relegated to the same level as mass-murder it's good to see that atheism is finally coming into the mainstream.

Pay back time?
Might not go so well. All of those who go negative to spread the word should take note of this simple historical truth.

648 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:02:47am

re: #643 Obdicut

I don't think atheism can be evangelized. I've never met a single atheist who became an atheist because they read an argument or something by another atheist.

Most people who wind up rejecting the doctrine of their religions, who wind up believing it's a myth, don't become atheists. It's easy to figure out that the specific stuff in a religion-- like, the belief in miracles-- is just myths about magic. But human beings are biologically wired to have pattern-recognition in their brain that, combined with emotions like hope 'n' all, create a feeling of connectedness to a larger consciousness. People want there to be someone listening, and they look at the world and see patterns of design and fate and the rest where there are none.

So most people who figure out their religion is a myth doesn't become atheists, they just become 'spiritual' or whatever. And that's fine. The problems with religion come from those people who think they know that god wants everyone to act a certain way, not from the people who just feel that connection.

I think you are right. The feeling of belonging to something greater than one's self seems to be necessary for total health.

649 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:03:33am

re: #646 HoosierHoops

. In fact they have this one place that is like the Wal-Mart of p0rn super stores..Next time i drive highway 44 I'm so going to stop there and take pictures...

Fact finding mission only ,, right !?!?!

650 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:04:09am

re: #646 HoosierHoops

If you travel through the Ozarks you will find literally hundreds of Billboards about family values and God..I found it ironic that coming in 2nd place were signs for XXX and P0rn stores.. In fact they have this one place that is like the Wal-Mart of p0rn super stores..Next time i drive highway 44 I'm so going to stop there and take pictures...

On I-71 (?) as you cross the border from Ohio to Indiana there are all kinds of "I knew you when" signs showing a fetus.

651 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:04:44am

re: #646 HoosierHoops

If you travel through the Ozarks you will find literally hundreds of Billboards about family values and God..I found it ironic that coming in 2nd place were signs for XXX and P0rn stores.. In fact they have this one place that is like the Wal-Mart of p0rn super stores..Next time i drive highway 44 I'm so going to stop there and take pictures...

I don't see irony...I see a correlation.

652 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:05:01am

re: #643 Obdicut

I don't think atheism can be evangelized. I've never met a single atheist who became an atheist because they read an argument or something by another atheist.

I have met a person like that, but the point may be semantic. What should we call it when atheists promote their view over other views? Perhaps another word would do, but the mission is the same-Convince others to think as you do.

653 rwmofo  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:05:47am

Just watched this heavily-edited video, which is typical for the left-wing. Definitely a teachable moment.

Imagine if the President could use accomplishments in his campaign message. Hmmm. Got nuthin' there. High unemployment. High gas prices, which have a direct effect on almost everything we buy/consume.

Yeah, we're clearly much worse off than we were four years ago, so attack those who have better ideas. Sarah Palin? She's not even, like, a small town mayor and has no affect on any legislation anywhere. What a bizarre target for a Presidential candidate.

654 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:05:55am

re: #642 ProGunLiberal

What makes this particular massacre even worse is that, of the 16 killed, 9 are kids, and further three were women.

655 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:06:01am

re: #648 ggt

I think you are right. The feeling of belonging to something greater than one's self seems to be necessary for total health.

That's not what I said at all, though. I said people have a tendency towards it. I think it's healthier to realize that that feeling is biologically driven, and that the world only makes sense when you force it to, that good things only happen through the hard work of human begins, and that the universe does not have a single shred of kindness to it aside from that that comes from us.

656 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:06:03am

Must be neocon hour.

657 erik_t  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:06:12am

re: #643 Obdicut

The only sort of unevangelism I see for atheism is existing as a normal decent person without the existence of personal spirituality or religion.

658 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:06:38am

re: #653 rwmofo

Oh look, it's the racist lover.

659 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:06:54am
660 erik_t  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:07:12am

re: #653 rwmofo

Yeah, we're clearly much worse off than we were four years ago

Dumb troll lives in fake world. Never seen that before.

661 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:07:21am

re: #653 rwmofo

There you go with your straight-up lies again.

662 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:07:44am

re: #652 Daniel Ballard

I have met a person like that, but the point may be semantic. What should we call it when atheists promote their view over other views?

I'm sorry, this doesn't seem to have anything to do with my post. I was saying I don't think advocacy of atheism actually ever converts anyone to atheism.

Perhaps another word would do, but the mission is the same-Convince others to think as you do.

Well, there you're making a serious fallacy. If someone evangelizes to believe that gays are evil because god made them that way, that's seriously different than trying to convince people that everyone should have equal rights. The difference between trying to convince someone of something irrational and something rational is huge.

663 Digital Display  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:07:53am

re: #650 ggt

On I-71 (?) as you cross the border from Ohio to Indiana there are all kinds of "I knew you when" signs showing a fetus.

I think that is I-74.. Nice to see you..

664 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:08:19am

re: #655 Obdicut

That's not what I said at all, though. I said people have a tendency towards it. I think it's healthier to realize that that feeling is biologically driven, and that the world only makes sense when you force it to, that good things only happen through the hard work of human begins, and that the universe does not have a single shred of kindness to it aside from that that comes from us.

We communicate so well!

/

665 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:08:28am

re: #652 Daniel Ballard

I have met a person like that, but the point may be semantic. What should we call it when atheists promote their view over other views? Perhaps another word would do, but the mission is the same-Convince others to think as you do.

Active atheism.

666 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:08:47am

I'm offended by prayer lists amidst mixed company.

667 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:09:10am

re: #663 HoosierHoops

I think that is I-74.. Nice to see you..

Probably both.

I'm thinking of the Highway into Cincinnati.

The one that goes by Batesville Indiana. Where they make caskets.

Always thought that was funny.

668 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:09:16am

re: #654 ProGunLiberal

I dunno about handing him over. Frankly I'd rather see an example of our UCMJ provide everyone an example of swift justice with the harshest penalty. Demonstrate our intolerance for murderers.

669 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:09:23am

re: #666 Gus

I'm offended by prayer lists amidst mixed company.

Great comment!

;)

670 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:10:04am

re: #666 Gus

On a kayaking trip i had one highly paranoid religious person convinced that me not joining in the group prayer for safety was putting everyone at risk.

I don't know what to say to something that irrational. I mean, even if I did go along with the prayer, I obviously wouldn't mean or believe it; I don't get the belief in a god that that's easily fooled, or just wants words with no conviction.

671 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:10:11am

re: #669 Martryr Cookie Monster

Great comment!

;)

Thanks. I should make it a point the next time I'm offended about these religious things.

672 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:10:35am

Prayer Lists don't bother me.

I just see it as concern and positive thoughts towards a specific person.

Whether it does any good or not, it keeps people occupied.

673 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:12:14am
674 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:12:36am

It's atheist hour!

;)

675 Surabaya Stew  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:12:42am

re: #648 ggt

I think you are right. The feeling of belonging to something greater than one's self seems to be necessary for total health.

Correct, IMO. And if it ain't god or religion, a nation or sport or philosophy can also perform this essential role.
Example: How many half-hearted Christians are die hard fans of their favorite team? Showering ritual, emotion, and miraculous feats upon their beloved players, etc.
Sounds like belonging to something greater!

676 jaunte  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:13:05am

re: #656 Gus

Must be neocon hour.

When gas prices are set by Presidents, magic thinking is loose in the land.

677 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:13:07am

re: #674 Martryr Cookie Monster

It's atheist hour!

;)

The Atheist Hour of Power!

ANARCHY!

//

678 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:13:17am

re: #652 Daniel Ballard

I have met a person like that, but the point may be semantic. What should we call it when atheists promote their view over other views? Perhaps another word would do, but the mission is the same-Convince others to think as you do.

I call them evangelical atheists. As an atheist myself I find them annoying, rude and pushy. I think atheists would do better to mimic the Jews who don't give a shit what other people believe rather than mimic the badgering and intolerant evangelical Christians.

679 erik_t  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:13:46am

re: #670 Obdicut

And the LORD did send the multitudes of biting and sucking creatures of the sky and the grass and the water at Obdicut's kayak group, and their blood did floweth by the gallon and the LORD saw that it was good.

680 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:13:46am

re: #678 Killgore Trout

Figures ;)

681 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:13:53am

re: #668 Daniel Ballard

The Afghans will want the Death Penalty, and the Military Courts are supremely unlikely to do it. Frankly, in this case, I want the Death Penalty too.

In addition, it appears that Ethnic Riots are occurring in Macedonia:

From Wiki:

Religious incidents

On January 14 2012, at the annual carnival in Vevčani, ethnic Macedonians wore masks that insulted the Muslim faith. It was followed by several protests done by ethnic Albanians. On January 30, arsonists set ablaze an Orthodox church near Struga in southwest Macedonia.

Ethnic violence

On February 28, a policeman killed two ethnic albanians in Gostivar, NW Macedonia.

By March 9, there has been a wave of inter-ethnic violent acts. On March 7, five persons were beaten in a bus in the capital, Skopje.

On March 10, several acts of violence were recorded in Skopje and the second biggest city, Tetovo. In Skopje, a group of youngsters beat a 66 year old. In addition, a wooden bridge over the Vardar river was burned. In Tetovo, ethnic Albanians beat a 16-year-old girl. Also, a policeman was physically assaulted. Five people were arrested.

682 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:14:09am

re: #678 Killgore Trout

I call them evangelical atheists. As an atheist myself I find them annoying, rude and pushy. I think atheists would do better to mimic the Jews who don't give a shit what other people believe rather than mimic the badgering and intolerant evangelical Christians.

Yeah but you have a policy of not taking any action on just about anything. See boycotts, Rush Limbaugh, etc.

683 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:14:43am

re: #680 Martryr Cookie Monster

Figures ;)

People should be like me! I'm the perfect atheist!

Hurl.

//

684 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:14:52am

re: #682 Gus

I beg pardon! OWS merits some mace action!/

685 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:15:10am

re: #684 Martryr Cookie Monster

I beg pardon! OWS merits some mace action!/

Behave yourselves!

686 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:15:32am
687 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:15:39am

Offended?

688 Digital Display  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:15:47am

re: #653 rwmofo

Elections are about energy, momentum, leadership and trending issues...
After all the shit the RW has tossed at our president from birthers to raciest to socialism charges.. I don't care what the Obama Campaign does that will destroy the GOP and bring about reform to the Grand Old Party...
Hard charging political ads and Videos..Boo effen hoo

689 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:15:48am

re: #685 Gus

STOP RAPING YOURSELVES!!

waitwut

#whenmemescollide

690 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:15:52am

re: #678 Killgore Trout

Some Jews do care what other people believe, though, if those other people are Jews. I get evangelized by Jews when I walk through the Orthodox areas of New York. What you mean is that Jews don't evangelize outside of the ethnic Jewish group, which is true. But that's because the Jewish religion was based far more on ethnic identity than most religions are.

691 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:16:20am

re: #682 Gus

Yeah but you have a policy of not taking any action on just about anything. See boycotts, Rush Limbaugh, etc.

Of course I would do nothing to silence Hitchens, Dawkins or George Carlin. The world is a richer place when their voices can be heard.

692 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:16:55am

re: #689 Martryr Cookie Monster

STOP RAPING YOURSELVES!!

waitwut

#whenmemescollide

Hilarious...

"You know. Rush Limbaugh wasn't offensive but now that you mention it that billboard really is offensive and I'm an atheist!"

//

693 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:17:02am

re: #685 Gus

Behave yourselves!

Stop raping people!

694 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:17:20am

re: #662 Obdicut

I'm sorry, this doesn't seem to have anything to do with my post. I was saying I don't think advocacy of atheism actually ever converts anyone to atheism.

Well, there you're making a serious fallacy. If someone evangelizes to believe that gays are evil because god made them that way, that's seriously different than trying to convince people that everyone should have equal rights. The difference between trying to convince someone of something irrational and something rational is huge.

No fallacy here, I put this in the context of religious belief, not sexual orientation. Then you have made a value judgement. Meh. An implicit "irrational" label to religious belief.

I guess it was not clear (somehow?) that the context was religious beliefs, or lack thereof.

695 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:17:41am

re: #691 Killgore Trout

I guess I don't get it. Are Carlin, Hitchens and Dawkins examples to be aspired to, or are they annoying pushy evangelical atheists?

696 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:18:18am

re: #694 Daniel Ballard

No fallacy here, I put this in the context of religious belief, not sexual orientation. Then you have made a value judgement. Meh. An implicit "irrational" label to religious belief.

Calling religious belief irrational is not a value judgement.

I guess it was not clear (somehow?) that the context was religious beliefs, or lack thereof.

Lack of religious belief is entirely different than religious belief, though.

697 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:18:39am

You know what's a hoot?

We're all evangelizing right now. ;)

698 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:19:08am

re: #697 Gus

You know what a hoot?

We're all evangelizing right now. ;)

Evangelical dontgiveafucker!

699 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:19:22am

re: #695 Martryr Cookie Monster

I guess I don't get it. Are Carlin, Hitchens and Dawkins examples to be aspired to, or are they annoying pushy evangelical atheists?

They're both! Society is richer for it when people are doing things that it'd be better if they didn't.

Wait, what?

700 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:19:30am

Those evangelical anti-evangelicals are sooo annoying! //

701 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:19:37am

re: #695 Martryr Cookie Monster

I guess I don't get it. Are Carlin, Hitchens and Dawkins examples to be aspired to, or are they annoying pushy evangelical atheists?

Pushing personal religious beliefs is often annoying and counter productive. From anyone. It's the pushy part that often fails.

702 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:20:24am

re: #697 Gus

You know what's a hoot?

We're all evangelizing right now. ;)

Semantic whirlpool?
:-)>

Silly me, evangelizing mutual respect. The horror!

703 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:20:44am

re: #700 Martryr Cookie Monster

Those evangelical anti-evangelicals are sooo annoying! //

You know who are the worst?

Apple evangelists.

//

704 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:20:44am

re: #701 Daniel Ballard

Pushing personal religious beliefs is often annoying and counter productive. From anyone. It's the pushy part that often fails.

Well, no, historically evangelicalism of religion works very well. That's why religions evangelize. If it was counterproductive, evangelical religions would shrink quickly. They don't.

705 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:20:47am

re: #701 Daniel Ballard

Yeah, but you're not KT ;)

706 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:20:48am

re: #681 ProGunLiberal

Also, looking through reports, it appears that the Albanians are heavily mistreated in Macedonia, with sayings like "The only good Albanian is a dead Albanian" being popular at soccer matches between the two communities.

It looks like the Macedonians bashed the Albanians one time too many, and now the Albanians are bashing back.

707 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:21:25am

re: #695 Martryr Cookie Monster

I guess I don't get it. Are Carlin, Hitchens and Dawkins examples to be aspired to, or are they annoying pushy evangelical atheists?

I think they're excellent examples of both. All three are brilliant, insightful, offensive, pushy and annoying. That's why I love them so much even though i may disagree with them or their tactics from time to time.

708 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:21:31am

I'm not really offended by prayer lists. "Offended" is a strong emotion. It's another word. ;)

709 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:21:31am

re: #706 ProGunLiberal

Sounds like you're gearing up for some more group blame again. Great.

710 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:22:02am

re: #707 Killgore Trout

How can society be richer for what they do while you simultaneously think that it'd be better if they didn't do it?

711 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:22:56am

re: #707 Killgore Trout

I think they're excellent examples of both. All three are brilliant, insightful, offensive, pushy and annoying. That's why I love them so much even though i may disagree with them or their tactics from time to time.

Still does not compute, since you also gave a practical advice:

I think atheists would do better to mimic the Jews who don't give a shit what other people believe rather than mimic the badgering and intolerant evangelical Christians.

That would mean that the objects of your love would cease to be, for all practical purposes.

712 compound_Idaho  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:23:01am

good advice
Image: warning.jpg

713 jaunte  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:23:14am

The Go-Nowhere Generation

The likelihood of 20-somethings moving to another state has dropped well over 40 percent since the 1980s, according to calculations based on Census Bureau data. The stuck-at-home mentality hits college-educated Americans as well as those without high school degrees. According to the Pew Research Center, the proportion of young adults living at home nearly doubled between 1980 and 2008, before the Great Recession hit. Even bicycle sales are lower now than they were in 2000. Today’s generation is literally going nowhere. This is the Occupy movement we should really be worried about.

714 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:23:17am

re: #678 Killgore Trout

I call them evangelical atheists. As an atheist myself I find them annoying, rude and pushy. I think atheists would do better to mimic the Jews who don't give a shit what other people believe rather than mimic the badgering and intolerant evangelical Christians.

So many people have been abused by individuals using religion as an excuse, I can understand the belligerant athiest.

I don't think it's a mature attitude, but definitely understandable.

Example: A old co-worker who' dad was a Baptist Preacher and used to "do God's Work" by getting drunk and physically abusing his kids.

I can certainly see why the kids grew-up to be radical athiests. Emotionally they were never able to separate the fact that their Dad was a violent drunk and a bad person who would have found another reason to abuse them if he didn't have the religion as an excuse.

715 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:23:19am

re: #703 Gus

In all seriousness, that is a good chunk of the reason I hate Apple. I dealt with so many fanboys bashing me for not having an Apple Laptop, and acting like cultists, that I eventually started hating Apple out of reflex.

Then I found information that gave my antipathy towards Apple more rational backing.

716 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:23:54am

re: #704 Obdicut

Well, no, historically evangelicalism of religion works very well. That's why religions evangelize. If it was counterproductive, evangelical religions would shrink quickly. They don't.

Let's not forget how by counter productive I might include the religious wars. IMO-Why humans love their religion(s) is a far more complex issue than mere spoken evangelism. As you have pointed out in the past unless I recall incorrectly.

717 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:23:59am

re: #710 Obdicut

How can society be richer for what they do while you simultaneously think that it'd be better if they didn't do it?

Because that's what happens in the market place of ideas in a free society. People say all kinds of shit. It's a beautiful thing.

718 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:24:37am

re: #701 Daniel Ballard

Pushing personal religious beliefs is often annoying and counter productive. From anyone. It's the pushy part that often fails.

Pushing any opinion is annoying and counter-productive, IMHO.

(unless it's me talking about Reproductive Rights :)

719 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:25:08am

re: #718 ggt

Pushing any opinion is annoying and counter-productive, IMHO.

Pushing however is subjective no?

720 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:25:16am

re: #718 ggt

Pushing any opinion is annoying and counter-productive, IMHO.

(unless it's me talking about Reproductive Rights :)

Dunno, it worked for Obama.

;)

721 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:25:52am

re: #711 Martryr Cookie Monster

Still does not compute, since you also gave a practical advice:

That would mean that the objects of your love would cease to be, for all practical purposes.

I don't dislike them because I disagree with their tactics sometimes. I still like and admire them.

722 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:26:27am

re: #653 rwmofo

rwmofo's previous hit: lying about Sandra Fluke:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

723 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:26:47am

re: #717 Killgore Trout

Because that's what happens in the market place of ideas in a free society. People say all kinds of shit. It's a beautiful thing.

Complete non-answer. Might as well just have said 'because'.

You're holding a contradictory position:

Society is richer with them being evangelical atheists.

It'd be better if they weren't evangelical atheists.

That you can't even acknowledge something like this is why your contrarian crap is so weak.

724 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:26:55am

re: #703 Gus

You know who are the worst?

Apple evangelists.

//

Hey, I resemble that remark!

:0

725 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:27:19am

re: #709 Obdicut

If the mood in a country is bashy towards an ethnic group, things will often boil over. That's not "groupthink" that's just facts.

Also, it appears that the Prime Minister of Macedonia has a history of bashing Albanians.

Now, it has boiled over.

726 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:27:47am

re: #721 Killgore Trout

I don't dislike them because I disagree with their tactics sometimes. I still like and admire them.

But if they followed your advice, they wouldn't be who they are/were. So isn't that a bit of a shooting yourself in the foot?

727 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:27:56am

re: #724 ggt

Hey, I resemble that remark!

:0

Equal time! I have seen Microsoft evangelizing as well which is really annoying. Especially when Steve Balmer is doing it.

728 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:28:35am

re: #725 ProGunLiberal

If the mood in a country is bashy towards an ethnic group, things will often boil over. That's not "groupthink" that's just facts.

Also, it appears that the Prime Minister of Macedonia has a history of bashing Albanians.

Now, it has boiled over.

Macedonia, Albania, Greece --now there are some old rivalries.

Throw Trace and Sparta in there and there are going to be fireworks!

729 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:28:38am

re: #724 ggt

Hey, I resemble that remark!

:0

LOL. I have said to proud Apple evangelists that the one free accessorywith an Apple product is the attitude.

730 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:28:39am

re: #716 Daniel Ballard

Let's not forget how by counter productive I might include the religious wars. IMO-Why humans love their religion(s) is a far more complex issue than mere spoken evangelism. As you have pointed out in the past unless I recall incorrectly.

Sorry, I thought we were talking about the success or failure of evangelicalism.

I'm just pointing out evangelicalism is a highly successful tactic used by religions. It's pushy, and it works.

That it doesn't work (in my opinion) for atheism shows the distinct difference between atheism and religious belief.

731 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:28:41am

It's human nature to evangelize.

732 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:29:28am

re: #731 Gus

It's human nature to evangelize.

Of course, YOU think you are right!

:0

733 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:29:53am

re: #725 ProGunLiberal

Although looking at the comments section of the site I was at, it was mostly Greeks and Serbs bashing Muslims.

I have a response to both:

To the Serbs: Our bombing of Belgrade was great moment in history

To the Greeks: How do you like your depression? Cause I do.

734 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:30:18am

re: #732 ggt

Of course, YOU think you are right!

:0

Better to evangelize than proselytize. ;)

735 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:30:43am

re: #733 ProGunLiberal

Yep. There you go with group blame again. The depression in Greece means suffering for innocent people. Don't celebrate it.

736 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:30:47am

re: #536 Dark_Falcon

1. Succeeding commercially is hard, and and lots of the 'suits an aspiring musician has to deal with are natural Republicans/Conservatives.

2. Musicians, like liberals, often deal with feelings and intangibles. Conservatives tend to focus on the economic facts of the business and are often uninterested in the 'art' or 'fairness' of it. To a musician, Mitt Romney really is the guy who canceled your band's album to focus on something he thought had greater commercial potential. They don't like that (though I don't mind it, as a feel executives should maintain a 'business-first' mentality).

3. In a similar vein, the conservative focus on economics and practicality does not lend itself to art creation.

4. Since the above facts are why most musicians are liberal, it also makes the music business hostile to conservatives. Most people don't like to have the one or two people around who put out views they don't like, and most people also don't want to be that person.

Note: The above does have an exception in Country music, which is much more likely to have conservative listeners and to have its musicians come from more conservative and rural locals.

There are many aspects to the music industry: the artists, the producers/record labels, the radio and video stations, journalism, and finally, the fans.

in the case of rock music, I see that music journalism is the most idealistic, followed by the fans. The boradcasters and producers are more concerned with making money.

Country is another ball of wax: a lot of it is based on presenting an idealized view of America and its "country" ideals of patriotism, family, God, rugged individualism and hard work.

And I recall it was the radio stations who boycotted the Dixie Chicks and initiated the indignant uproar when they dared criticize God's own Choice of US President, one that a lot of fans saw as an embodiment of the very virtues they wish to hear celebrated in their music of choice.

737 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:30:52am

re: #728 ggt

My order of favortism among those three are:

Albania, Macedonia, (below the bottom) Greece.

738 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:31:05am

re: #723 Obdicut

Complete non-answer. Might as well just have said 'because'.

You're holding a contradictory position:

Society is richer with them being evangelical atheists.

It'd be better if they weren't evangelical atheists.

That you can't even acknowledge something like this is why your contrarian crap is so weak.

I like that they contribute ideas and arguments even though I might disagree with them or find them counter productive. They make me think and consider ideas to form my own opinion even though it might differ from theirs. Society is better off with annoying evangelical atheists and Christians and moonbats and wingnuts all speaking out, debating, arguing, squabbling and insulting each other. I wouldn't want it any other way.

739 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:31:12am

Have a great day all!

740 Digital Display  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:31:50am

re: #715 ProGunLiberal

In all seriousness, that is a good chunk of the reason I hate Apple. I dealt with so many fanboys bashing me for not having an Apple Laptop, and acting like cultists, that I eventually started hating Apple out of reflex.

Then I found information that gave my antipathy towards Apple more rational backing.

Microsoft and Apple took 2 different approaches to computers..The OS that Apple uses is very tight and completely controlled by Apple.. You will never be able to access the Kernel of an Apple OS.. Whereas any 14 yr old could write a OCX wrapper and do anything with Windows..It became the worlds leading OS to write Apps for..But has more holes in it than Albert Hall.. That's why MS pushes updates every Tuesday to close vulnerabilities to it's OS and Browser...

741 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:32:09am

re: #733 ProGunLiberal

How nice of you to revel in the misery of entire peoples!

742 erik_t  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:32:23am

re: #737 ProGunLiberal

My order of favortism among those three are:

Albania, Macedonia, (below the bottom) Greece.

This is creepy.

743 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:32:51am

re: #726 Martryr Cookie Monster

But if they followed your advice, they wouldn't be who they are/were. So isn't that a bit of a shooting yourself in the foot?

No, that's why I have no desire to pressure people into actions or statements that suit my beliefs and sensibilities. I like them the way they are.

744 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:33:09am

re: #738 Killgore Trout

I like that they contribute ideas and arguments even though I might disagree with them or find them counter productive.

Well, that's obvious.

Society is better off with annoying evangelical atheists and Christians and moonbats and wingnuts all speaking out, debating, arguing, squabbling and insulting each other. I wouldn't want it any other way.

Right, I understand you're contradicting yourself. You said it'd be better if they didn't evangelicalize atheism, and you said it's better if they do. It's a contradiction, you can't admit to it, and this is something you do all the time.

I don't know whether you honestly can't see that it's a contradiction, have some sort of logical failure and don't think it's a contradiction, or are just being a lazy contrarion, but this is a large part of why people get sick of you just stating your position over and over again: you contradict yourself constantly and never do a damn thing to even begin to try to resolve the contradiction.

745 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:34:03am

When The Bill entered the fourth password, I heard the voice of the fourth Office Assistant say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named the Blue Screen of Death, and Fatal Error was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by read/write errors, accidental deletions, and by the viruses of the earth.

746 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:34:11am

MSIE is there for when your Firefox or Chrome browser crashes.

In case of emergency: use MSIE.

Otherwise...

//

747 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:35:03am

re: #745 Martryr Cookie Monster

When The Bill entered the fourth password, I heard the voice of the fourth Office Assistant say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named the Blue Screen of Death, and Fatal Error was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by read/write errors, accidental deletions, and by the viruses of the earth.

Image: bluescreenofdeathtshirt_01.jpg

748 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:35:21am

re: #670 Obdicut

On a kayaking trip i had one highly paranoid religious person convinced that me not joining in the group prayer for safety was putting everyone at risk.

I don't know what to say to something that irrational. I mean, even if I did go along with the prayer, I obviously wouldn't mean or believe it; I don't get the belief in a god that that's easily fooled, or just wants words with no conviction.

That had nothing to do with religion, that was just a frigging manipulative personality using religion as a tool to get you to do what he wanted to.

Sound vaguely familiar?

749 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:36:08am

re: #735 Obdicut

Greece is the same nation that actively helped out in Srebrenica, obstructed NATO during Bosnia, fed information of what NATO was doing to Serbia during the Bosnian War, has had major anti-American Riots in regards to both the Bosnian Intervention and Kosovo Intervention, and is virulently Anti-American.

Why should I feel any pity for the Greeks? From my historical reading, this is Karma.

re: #742 erik_t

Most people have favorite nations, don't they?

750 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:36:24am

re: #748 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Well, he failed, and he bent his rudder and I had to tow him back to shore.

I think one of the greatest benefits to me growing up was having two older brothers who taught me to say 'no' and stand up for myself. I can't thank them enough for that, even if their teaching methods were occasionally on the aggressive side.

751 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:37:08am

re: #744 Obdicut

It's not that hard to understand.

752 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:37:23am

re: #749 ProGunLiberal

Because group blame is wrong, because it blames individuals for the actions of a nation. I'm getting really tired of writing this to you. Can you seriously not remember this concept?

753 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:37:33am

re: #749 ProGunLiberal

Sorry, PGL, you're sounding like Ludwig.

754 Kronocide  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:37:42am

re: #750 Obdicut

Well, he failed, and he bent his rudder and I had to tow him back to shore.

That was your fault because to didn't pray with him. Did he forgive you?

755 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:38:57am

re: #750 Obdicut

Well, he failed, and he bent his rudder and I had to tow him back to shore.

well, only fair as it was your fault for not praying along. even if it was only mouthing the words...

756 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:39:18am

re: #731 Gus

It's human nature to evangelize.

Like about this blog sometimes... To my politically aware friends who can't find a sane place to blog.

757 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:40:04am

re: #751 Killgore Trout

It's not that hard to understand.

It's not that hard to understand that you're contradicting yourself. You manage not to understand it, which seems rather willed on your part.

You said:

I think atheists would do better to mimic the Jews who don't give a shit what other people believe rather than mimic the badgering and intolerant evangelical Christians.

So, you're saying they'd do better if the acted differently than they're doing now.

But at the same time you're saying society is richer with them acting the way they currently are.

Which is a contradiction.

If it's not, then go ahead and, you know, actually explain how it isn't, rather than doing your normal thing of just stating what you already said over and over again.

758 AK-47%  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:40:10am

re: #754 Kronocide

That was your fault because to didn't pray with him. Did he forgive you?

I am sure he did because he is a Good Christian.

But God will not forgive you untill you confess, repent and accept Jesus...

759 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:41:02am

re: #754 Kronocide

That was your fault because to didn't pray with him. Did he forgive you?

He told me he was grateful to god that I was there to tow him, which was awesomely passive-aggressive.

760 erik_t  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:41:07am

re: #749 ProGunLiberal

Most people have favorite nations, don't they?

I don't have elaborate rankings matrices for what nations I favor over others, no. It's really fucking creepy.

761 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:42:55am

re: #749 ProGunLiberal

Greece is the same nation that actively helped out in Srebrenica, obstructed NATO during Bosnia, fed information of what NATO was doing to Serbia during the Bosnian War, has had major anti-American Riots in regards to both the Bosnian Intervention and Kosovo Intervention, and is virulently Anti-American.

Why should I feel any pity for the Greeks? From my historical reading, this is Karma.

re: #742 erik_t

Most people have favorite nations, don't they?

Heartlessness about your real or perceived enemies will do you more harm than it will them. There are better ways to approach conflict.

762 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:43:38am

re: #757 Obdicut

So, you're saying they'd do better if the acted differently than they're doing now.

But at the same time you're saying society is richer with them acting the way they currently are.

Which is a contradiction.

Those two statements aren't contradictory. In a free and open society people are allowed to say things that are counterproductive to their own interests. That's what makes things interesting.

763 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:44:25am

re: #752 Obdicut

I can understand your point to an extent. However, where my problem develops is the fact that Greece aided and abetted one genocide, and was about to do so for another. How screwed up of a nation must that be to do so voluntarily?

True, most individuals in Greece are innocent of their government's actions. Same as with the Iranian People.

I view what is happening with Greece now as Post-Incident Sanctions. Hopefully, this will help Greece to learn to not help with Genocides.

764 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:45:32am

re: #762 Killgore Trout

Those two statements aren't contradictory. In a free and open society people are allowed to say things that are counterproductive to their own interests.

Why do you keep saying bullshit like 'allowed' when no one has talked about disallowing anyone anything? You do this all the time-- can you just not help yourself?

That's what makes things interesting.

Do you think it makes society richer for people to spout hateful propaganda about Jews, as well?

765 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:45:38am

I just saw this on Wikipedia:

Mary Brown, a named plaintiff in National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius, which challenges the constitutionality of "Obamacare", declares bankruptcy, leaving $4500 of her personal uninsured medical bills unpaid.

How should I feel about this?

766 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:45:47am

re: #762 Killgore Trout

Those two statements aren't contradictory. In a free and open society people are allowed to say things that are counterproductive to their own interests. That's what makes things interesting.

But that's contradicting what you said earlier:

I think atheists would do better to mimic the Jews who don't give a shit what other people believe rather than mimic the badgering and intolerant evangelical Christians.

If "atheists" shouldn't give a shit than they really shouldn't have to give a shit about this statement no?

767 erik_t  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:46:08am

re: #763 ProGunLiberal

True, most individuals in Greece are innocent of their government's actions. Same as with the Iranian People.

I view what is happening with Greece now as Post-Incident Sanctions. Hopefully, this will help Greece to learn to not help with Genocides.

but

Why should I feel any pity for the Greeks?

Subject: stop changing it.

768 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:46:19am

re: #763 ProGunLiberal

You keep talking about Greece as though it's a sentient entity. It isn't.

Greece isn't going to learn anything, ever.

769 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:47:14am

Well. At least we're off Argentina.

//

770 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:47:24am

re: #762 Killgore Trout

Those two statements aren't contradictory. In a free and open society people are allowed to say things that are counterproductive to their own interests. That's what makes things interesting.

Actually, they are contradictory, since it's not about what one is allowed to do, but about *your* opinion of these actions.

If society is richer with these pushy atheists as they are/were, then it makes no sense for you to wish to make the society less rich, but that is the effect of your wish for atheists to be less pushy and rude.

771 jaunte  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:50:31am
772 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:50:52am

000G, come out and join the party ;)

773 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:51:08am

re: #769 Gus

Argentina, to its credit, has not actively aided a major large scale genocide in the past 30 years.

The government has been a bunch of twits in regards to the Falklands, but that's it.

re: #767 erik_t

How am I changing subject? I adjusted slightly is all.

774 erik_t  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:53:29am

re: #773 ProGunLiberal

You know the government of Greece is synonymous with 'Greeks', right? This seems to be a point of repetitive derpitude.

775 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:54:23am

re: #770 Martryr Cookie Monster

If Christian evangelism were as rare as atheism advertisements, most Americans would be better off. Heh, we Americans outlawed cigarette billboards. (Just a side note, not comparing religion or atheism and cigs)
BTW-I had to go look up capitalization of the word atheist. Ooops. Apologies for the above capitalized uses.

776 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:58:17am

re: #774 erik_t

I see your point.

I tend to get riled up by the crap that occurred during both Bosnia and Kosovo. At that point, I admit that I become less rational, and vengeful.

777 Gus  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 10:58:21am

re: #775 Daniel Ballard

If Christian evangelism were as rare as atheism advertisements, most Americans would be better off. Heh, we Americans outlawed cigarette billboards. (Just a side note, not comparing religion or atheism and cigs)
BTW-I had to go look up capitalization of the word atheist. Ooops. Apologies for the above capitalized uses.

I haven't seen any billboard in months. Last time I saw a bunch on my road trip. Most of which involved gambling establishments. Which themselves are offensive to some people and in fact promotes an amusement that frequently lead to bankruptcy and ruined lives. ;)

778 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 11:02:31am

re: #648 ggt

I think you are right. The feeling of belonging to something greater than one's self seems to be necessary for total health.

I don't agree that it is necessary for total health.

But even an atheist like myself can see that they are part of something greater. I'm part of a vast universe, in a world filled with lifeforms evolved over millions of years. My atoms were forged in the nuclear fire of a star long dead. I'm a small part of the universe pondering its own existence.

779 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 11:14:40am

re: #655 Obdicut

That's not what I said at all, though. I said people have a tendency towards it. I think it's healthier to realize that that feeling is biologically driven, and that the world only makes sense when you force it to, that good things only happen through the hard work of human begins, and that the universe does not have a single shred of kindness to it aside from that that comes from us.

I don't agree with the first part or the second part.

First, I think lots of good things exist without any human effort whatsoever. The entire planetary ecosystem is an example of such, IMO.

Second, I think attributing emotions only to humans is a very anthropocentric point of view. Those emotions evolved, they weren't just put there. Nor are they unique to just the ape line or even mammal line. There are examples of sharing, cooperation, creativity, sacrifice, long term relationships, etc all throughout the animal kingdom.

780 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 11:29:34am

re: #779 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter

First, I think lots of good things exist without any human effort whatsoever. The entire planetary ecosystem is an example of such, IMO.

It's not a good thing, it's just what had to be there for us to be here.

Second, I think attributing emotions only to humans is a very anthropocentric point of view.

I didn't.

781 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 11:41:55am

re: #780 Obdicut

It's not a good thing, it's just what had to be there for us to be here.

Is that it was and is there a good thing? Is it giving rise to us good thing?

I didn't.

Okay, kindness isn't an emotion. But it can arise from emotions. As to kindness, specifically:

2. a kind, considerate, or helpful act

Yes, we can find that in the animal kingdom and it doesn't come from us.

782 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 11:55:11am

re: #781 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter

Is that it was and is there a good thing? Is it giving rise to us good thing?

No.

Yes, we can find that in the animal kingdom and it doesn't come from us.

I disagree. I think it requires abstract reasoning. If any animal does engage in abstract reasoning, I'm happy to call them people. I haven't seen any convincing evidence that anything other than a human is capable of this.

783 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 12:19:44pm

re: #782 Obdicut

No.

Then we disagree on this point. Likely because we are using different definitions of the term good.

I disagree. I think it requires abstract reasoning. If any animal does engage in abstract reasoning, I'm happy to call them people. I haven't seen any convincing evidence that anything other than a human is capable of this.

I disagree that kindness requires abstract reasoning. IMO, it requires causal reasoning and or metacognition. Something that is demonstrated in many branches of the animal kingdom.

And if you really need abstract reasoning there are papers describing potential instances of such in animals. It is difficult to untangle from causal reasoning however and I would argue that they are deeply related. Some examples:

[Link: pss.sagepub.com...]
[Link: www.plosone.org...]

And on a more general point, why don't you think abstract reasoning could have evolved in other animals first and we merely differ in magnitude of the ability?

784 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 12:32:26pm

re: #783 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter

Then we disagree on this point. Likely because we are using different definitions of the term good.

I guess. We exist. If we didn't, it wouldn't be either good or bad. It's just what is.

I disagree that kindness requires abstract reasoning.

Then you're talking about a different sort of kindness than I am.

And if you really need abstract reasoning there are papers describing potential instances of such in animals.

I know. Potential. And I think there's a huge difference between metacognition as it applies to probability and metacognition as it applies to things like dialectics.

And on a more general point, why don't you think abstract reasoning could have evolved in other animals first and we merely differ in magnitude of the ability?

It could have. I haven't seen anything that convinces me. There is a rather large gulf between us and even more most intelligent cousins, in every aspect.

785 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 12:38:37pm

re: #784 Obdicut

more = our.

786 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 12:45:31pm

re: #784 Obdicut

I guess. We exist. If we didn't, it wouldn't be either good or bad. It's just what is.

Yeah, but we exist, we judge it as good, so it's good and without any of our effort, no?

787 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 1:28:03pm

re: #784 Obdicut

I guess. We exist. If we didn't, it wouldn't be either good or bad. It's just what is.

As Sergey says, we do exist. That's not a good thing?

Then you're talking about a different sort of kindness than I am.

What sort of kindness are you talking about?

I know. Potential. And I think there's a huge difference between metacognition as it applies to probability and metacognition as it applies to things like dialectics.

I said potential because it is still a controversial subject and an active area of research. The authors of the papers I linked, and many other researchers, say that such potential is realized in certain animals. What do you think about what I linked?

I would suggest that being able to discern the similarities and differences between objects such as their color, shape, quantity (or absence), etc is an abstraction. That capability was demonstrated by Alex the parrot.

It could have. I haven't seen anything that convinces me. There is a rather large gulf between us and even more most intelligent cousins, in every aspect.

Fair enough. I agree that there is a huge gulf between us and even our nearest relatives. But I see it as a difference in the magnitude of our capability rather than as something unique to us.

788 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 1:51:52pm

re: #786 Martryr Cookie Monster

Yeah, but we exist, we judge it as good, so it's good and without any of our effort, no?

No, because if we didn't exist, we wouldn't judge it as bad. It's just the anthropic principle. Once we exist, we judge it good to continue existing. Anyway, this is a really very trivial point.

789 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 1:57:24pm

re: #787 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter

I said potential because it is still a controversial subject and an active area of research. The authors of the papers I linked, and many other researchers, say that such potential is realized in certain animals. What do you think about what I linked?

If it's still a controversial subject, why are you surprised by me being unconvinced? I've read many, many, many, many papers on the subject. I haven't thoroughly read the ones you've linked, of course-- I'm not sure why you're asking me for a response about them since you just posted them and they're academic papers that require a lot of time to actually read and comprehend-- but I really doubt the authors would say that they prove it, just that they add evidence.

I would suggest that being able to discern the similarities and differences between objects such as their color, shape, quantity (or absence), etc is an abstraction. That capability was demonstrated by Alex the parrot.

Well, I wouldn't. Or rather, I'd say that analoging ability forms a part of abstract thought.

What sort of kindness are you talking about?

A kind that involves abstract thought, rather than as you said, metacognition (a very squishy term) and causal reasoning. I'd also note it's nearly impossible to separate causal reasoning from hardwired behavior.

Fair enough. I agree that there is a huge gulf between us and even our nearest relatives. But I see it as a difference in the magnitude of our capability rather than as something unique to us.

Do you think that descends down all the way to protozoa?

790 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:20:58pm

re: #789 Obdicut

If it's still a controversial subject, why are you surprised by me being unconvinced?

I'm not really surprised about that. What surprises me is how cold you view the world and that we are somehow so unique in it.

From my perspective the points about goodness, kindness, cognition, etc aren't really critical to this issue. I see examples in all the kingdoms of life on the planet in which organisms are living and surviving together, sharing work and the rewards, giving others a free ride without shaming them as welfare commensalists, helping each other, forming relationships and family bonds, etc. Now if that isn't good or kindness or whatever, fine. It is still showing a level of teamwork and cooperation that should shame us as a supposedly rational social species. Do they do these things because they are kind or just because evolution programmed them that way? I'd say in some cases both, but I'm not sure why the distinction even matters.

Is charity less good if the person does it because of social programming rather than because they empathize with the recipients?

but I really doubt the authors would say that they prove it, just that they add evidence.

I didn't say prove.

Well, I wouldn't. Or rather, I'd say that analoging ability forms a part of abstract thought.

What more is needed for abstract thought? An analogy is an abstraction. So if these animals are analoging then is that not a form of abstract thought?

A kind that involves abstract thought, rather than as you said, metacognition (a very squishy term) and causal reasoning.

What sort of kindness involves abstract thought? I suggest instead that kindness is an emotional response.

I'd also note it's nearly impossible to separate causal reasoning from hardwired behavior.

I'm using the term metacognition specifically in reference to a sense of self, something demonstrated by several groups of animals.

As for causal reasoning, yes it is hard to separate from training. But it has been demonstrated in several groups by introducing animals to problems they have never seen before. For example, spontaneous sequential tool use:
[Link: www.physorg.com...]

Do you think that descends down all the way to protozoa?

Do I think what what descends all the way down to protozoa? And why stop there, why not all the way down to bacteria and archaea?

791 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 3:30:10pm

re: #790 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter

I'm not really surprised about that. What surprises me is how cold you view the world and that we are somehow so unique in it.

Are personal jabs really adding anything here?

Is charity less good if the person does it because of social programming rather than because they empathize with the recipients?

Yes.

I didn't say prove.

You said demonstrate. Whatever. You agree it just provides evidence for.

What sort of kindness involves abstract thought? I suggest instead that kindness is an emotional response.

This is a change; previously you agreed kindness was not an emotion.

What more is needed for abstract thought? An analogy is an abstraction. So if these animals are analoging then is that not a form of abstract thought?

No, not any more than making sounds that communicate content is a form of language. I'm saying that analoging is a part of abstract thought. I can't really be any clearer about that.

Are you saying you think that parrots engage in abstract thought the way humans do?

But it has been demonstrated in several groups by introducing animals to problems they have never seen before. For example, spontaneous sequential tool use:

It's kind of odd to me that you keep referencing birds. Do you believe birds have cognition in the same way humans do?

The last thread of that article says:

Seemingly intelligent behaviour can be achieved without the involvement of high-level mental faculties, and detailed analyses are necessary before accepting claims for complex cognitive abilities.

And:

Do I think what what descends all the way down to protozoa?

Er, the subject of the conversation. You said:

But I see it as a difference in the magnitude of our capability rather than as something unique to us.

I'm asking you if you think that magnitude argument applies all the way down the line; are we just much better at cognition than a protozoa? Is there any line of demarcation for you-- not a bright line, of course, but is there any difference other than magnitude?

792 Decider  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 4:26:26pm

Palin and Hannity. What a combination.

793 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 5:27:34pm

re: #791 Obdicut

Are personal jabs really adding anything here?

Jabbing is not my intention. Let me go back to your response to ggt. I actually agree in principle, for the most part. But not in the details. If humans aren't the only source of good or kindness in the entire universe does not your other points still stand?

I agree that some people's need for connection to something greater is a feeling that's biologically driven. So why not satisfy the emotion rather than suppress it? We can be rational while recognizing that, in fact, we are part of many greater things.

Yes.

So someone in need should value the assistance they receive differently depending on the configuration of the giver's neurons?

This is a change; previously you agreed kindness was not an emotion.

It isn't a change, I just wasn't very clear. Kindness isn't an emotion, but it can come about as a response to an emotion. What sort of kindness requires abstract thought?

No, not any more than making sounds that communicate content is a form of language.

I would call this animal language, and I am in good company.

I'm saying that analoging is a part of abstract thought. I can't really be any clearer about that.

What are the other parts of abstract thought?

Are you saying you think that parrots engage in abstract thought the way humans do?

The way humans do? No.

It's kind of odd to me that you keep referencing birds. Do you believe birds have cognition in the same way humans do?

I find them to be interesting subjects and non-mammals. I try to look for examples outside the ape lineage because articles about them can be more easily found with google by anybody.

Would you prefer cetaceans? Cephalopods?

The last thread of that article says:

The cautious approach is always called for in science.

How about the followup article to that one:
[Link: www.physorg.com...]

The experiments showed the performance of the birds in solving the problem was consistent with a thought process — tools can be used to retrieve unreachable objects — rather than a process of trial and error and learning from mistakes.

I'm asking you if you think that magnitude argument applies all the way down the line; are we just much better at cognition than a protozoa? Is there any line of demarcation for you-- not a bright line, of course, but is there any difference other than magnitude?

As to cognition specifically, I think there is a minimum requirement of at least one brain. Without a brain it would be difficult to unify the whole suite of processes we describe as cognition. But even bacteria can learn and respond to, for example, periodicity in stimuli through epigenetics.

I think that organisms evolve abilities that are suited to their environmental niche. Do I think parrots have the same cognitive faculties as humans? Of course not. Humans are bipedal ground dwelling apes. Parrots are airborne tree dwelling birds. They will evolve cognition that best suits their lifestyle. I think that many social animals will evolve certain emotional and cognitive traits that are similar but not exactly the same as ours.

794 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 5:47:10pm

re: #793 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter

If humans aren't the only source of good or kindness in the entire universe does not your other points still stand?

Sure.

I agree that some people's need for connection to something greater is a feeling that's biologically driven. So why not satisfy the emotion rather than suppress it? We can be rational while recognizing that, in fact, we are part of many greater things.

No clue where you got the idea I want the emotion suppressed. Care to point it out?

So someone in need should value the assistance they receive differently depending on the configuration of the giver's neurons?

Weird way to put it, but yeah, if someone helps you out of empathy that's definitely more valuable than someone helping you because they've been raised to think helping you is the right thing to do.

It isn't a change, I just wasn't very clear. Kindness isn't an emotion, but it can come about as a response to an emotion. What sort of kindness requires abstract thought?

The kind that involves perception and empathy of a non-obvious emotional state in another person.

I would call this animal language, and I am in good company.

I don't think you would, really. You really call any noise an animal makes that contains content language? Can you point out who else has that view?

I find them to be interesting subjects and non-mammals. I try to look for examples outside the ape lineage because articles about them can be more easily found with google by anybody.

Would you prefer cetaceans? Cephalopods?

I wouldn't prefer anything. I'm just completely at a loss as to what argument you're trying to make. Are you saying that the difference between the cognition of birds and our cognition is just a difference of magnitude?

What are the other parts of abstract thought?

Dialectical thought, for one thing. Being able to figure out counter-intuitive solutions would be another.

The cautious approach is always called for in science.

I agree. Which is why, even though I have seen quite a lot of evidence that things other than humans may have cognition similar to ours but different in magnitude, I haven't been convinced.

As to cognition specifically, I think there is a minimum requirement of at least one brain. Without a brain it would be difficult to unify the whole suite of processes we describe as cognition.

I really can't make head or tail of this bit. You previously were talking about differences only in magnitude. Now your'e talking about qualitative differences. So which is it?

795 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 5:58:36pm

re: #794 Obdicut

And by 'this bit' i mean the whole bit that follows that.

796 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 6:15:46pm

re: #788 Obdicut

No, because if we didn't exist, we wouldn't judge it as bad. It's just the anthropic principle. Once we exist, we judge it good to continue existing. Anyway, this is a really very trivial point.

How is it a no, if we do judge it to be good, as you agree? It's good since we judge it to be good. There is no good or bad aside from our judgment.

797 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 6:27:58pm

re: #796 Martryr Cookie Monster

How is it a no, if we do judge it to be good, as you agree?

Because we judge it so post-facto. There isn't any possible other judgement. So it's a meaningless one.

It's good since we judge it to be good. There is no good or bad aside from our judgment.

I really find it a pretty trivial matter, but the point I'm trying to make is it's just the anthropic principle. It's like saying that my blood is suffused with sufficient oxygen right now is good. It's an entirely different category of 'good' than me actually doing something useful with that, to the extent that I wouldn't call it good, just necessary.

798 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 6:55:30pm

re: #797 Obdicut

Because we judge it so post-facto. There isn't any possible other judgement. So it's a meaningless one.

Non sequitur. Simply defining this good out of existence by calling it meaningless doesn't make it not good. It's good because we judge it to be good. We judge it to be good, hence it's not meaninglessly good.

I really find it a pretty trivial matter, but the point I'm trying to make is it's just the anthropic principle. It's like saying that my blood is suffused with sufficient oxygen right now is good. It's an entirely different category of 'good' than me actually doing something useful with that, to the extent that I wouldn't call it good, just necessary.

We judge many pre-existing things as good that are not necessary for our existence (e.g. we would exist without edible mushrooms; edible mushrooms pre-date us; edible mushrooms are good and not due to our efforts). We judge a lot of pre-existing things as bad, some of them necessary for our individual or group existence, some neutral in that regard (e.g. neither you nor I would exist if some historical tragedies would not have happened due to butterfly effect, but we don't refrain from negative judgment just because we're here because of them and we wouldn't be here without them; various parasites and pathogens that existed aside from us got attached to us; etc.).

799 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:03:29pm

re: #798 Martryr Cookie Monster

Non sequitur. Simply defining this good out of existence by calling it meaningless doesn't make it not good. It's good because we judge it to be good. We judge it to be good, hence it's not meaninglessly good.

Okay, well, I don't judge it to be good, not in the same definition as 'good' is used elsewhere.

We judge many pre-existing things as good that are not necessary for our existence (e.g. we would exist without edible mushrooms; edible mushrooms pre-date us; edible mushrooms are good and not due to our efforts).

I don't think of edible mushrooms as good.

(e.g. neither you nor I would exist if some historical tragedies would not have happened due to butterfly effect, but we don't refrain from negative judgment just because we're here because of them and we wouldn't be here without them;

I meant the 'we' of the human species, not you or I. Which is why we can say some things are bad even if they'd erase some members from existence.

To me, this is really just semantics about the word 'good', and I don't see it as being important.

800 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:09:15pm

re: #799 Obdicut

Okay, well, I don't judge it to be good, not in the same definition as 'good' is used elsewhere.

I don't think of edible mushrooms as good.

You don't, others do. That's why good and bad are purely subjective.

I meant the 'we' of the human species, not you or I.
Which is why we can say some things are bad even if they'd erase some members from existence.

I don't get this argument.

To me, this is really just semantics about the word 'good', and I don't see it as being important.

Good, but then what's the objection to your opponent? He sees it as good, you don't, you're both right. Basically, you can agree to disagree on what is good and what is not.

801 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:16:46pm

re: #800 Martryr Cookie Monster

I don't get this argument.

We can agree WWII was a terrible thing, even though almost no one currently alive would be alive if WWII hadn't happened. This is because we're thinking of it in terms of its effect on humanity, not on individual humans, or ourselves.

He sees it as good, you don't, you're both right. Basically, you can agree to disagree on what is good and what is not.

Because I think if you consider mere existence to be 'good', then you'd need an entirely different term to describe things that improve that existence.

802 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:23:20pm

re: #801 Obdicut

We can agree WWII was a terrible thing, even though almost no one currently alive would be alive if WWII hadn't happened. This is because we're thinking of it in terms of its effect on humanity, not on individual humans, or ourselves.

But nothing stops us from thinking about it in terms of individuals, and moreover, we, who would not have existed if not WWII, are a group too, but we don't refrain from saying WWII was bad just because we, as a group, would not have existed.

Because I think if you consider mere existence to be 'good', then you'd need an entirely different term to describe things that improve that existence.

That is your right, but that's not how people necessarily use the word. They will still call such things good. And their use is not worse (or better) than yours.

803 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:26:22pm

re: #802 Martryr Cookie Monster

But nothing stops us from thinking about it in terms of individuals, and moreover, we, who would not have existed if not WWII, are a group too, but we don't refrain from saying WWII was bad just because we, as a group, would not have existed.

Ya lost me.

That is your right, but that's not how people necessarily use the word. They will still call such things good. And their use is not worse (or better) than yours.

Well, I'd say it is is more imprecise, unless they have some other word to describe things that improve existence.

Anyway, that really exhausts my interest in the semantics of this.

804 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:28:47pm

re: #794 Obdicut

I think we are both missing some points here and the word limit isn't helping my clarity at all. I need to wind down for sleep anyway so I'll just summarize a few thoughts before halting for the night.

I don't only think of cognition as divided into groups like abstract reasoning, causal reasoning, etc. Cognition is a large suite of mental processes that are grouped together. Some animals may have a similar quality of mental processes as us but differing mainly in magnitude, some primates for example. While other animals, because they evolved in different environments, will have a different quality of cognition if you consider it as a whole. But if we compared individual components within the term cognition, such as memory or decision making, then those individual components would differ from us only in magnitude. Some animals might not posses all components of the various aspects of cognition. Some animals might have, as already discussed, some aspects of abstract thought but not others. But ultimately I don't think that there is a specific mental process that we could define as uniquely human. Many won't agree with me on that point, I'm sure. I approach this from an evolutionary perspective. I suspect, but can't prove, that all of the mental tools humans posses could evolve, either converging or from common ancestors, in certain other animals as ways to deal with specific problems in their own niches. Therefore I would not be surprised if certain social animals evolved empathy, for example.

As for what started all this, kindness and goodness are subjective. I listed a dictionary definition of kindness and didn't agree that it required abstract reasoning. You said that you were talking about some other sort. So if kindness and goodness are subjective terms that might or might not exist outside of the human sphere it makes for a superfluous philosophical addition to the discussion of healthy ways to deal with the emotional need for connection.

805 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:32:13pm

Sunny beaches are good. Funny kittens are good. Warm summer rain is good. All legitimate uses of the word ;)

806 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:33:17pm

re: #805 Martryr Cookie Monster

Sunny beaches are good. Funny kittens are good. Warm summer rain is good. All legitimate uses of the word ;)

Oh, for casual usage, sure. You could also say that furry kittens are bad, and it could be true in a casual way.

807 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:35:07pm

re: #804 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter

Of course other animals could evolve the same sort of cognition as humans. I just don't think they have.

I'd just note that if you're trying to make the quantitative argument, then you detract from it by including the birds, when you agree there's a qualitative difference there.

And I think that combinatorics matters; cognitive stuff works very differently when you have a bunch of it together. This can be pretty easily seen in humans who have part of their cognitive processes knocked out, and how they're not just slightly-less-good at cognition than other humans, but generally incredibly flawed at it.

808 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:36:34pm

re: #806 Obdicut

Oh, for casual usage, sure. You could also say that furry kittens are bad, and it could be true in a casual way.

I don't think "true" is applicable to "good" and "bad", except in the framework of the individual human mind, so yes, furry kittens could be bad too. Especially to someone with an allergy ;)

809 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 7:49:41pm
This can be pretty easily seen in humans who have part of their cognitive processes knocked out, and how they're not just slightly-less-good at cognition than other humans, but generally incredibly flawed at it.

Removing part of someone's brain isn't an evolutionary process. They are incredibly flawed at it partially because our mental processes evolved together within the same brain, IMO. The specific neural network that developed to support all of these processes is incredibly difficult to untangle after the fact, if possible at all.

810 Obdicut  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:01:23pm

re: #809 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter

Removing part of someone's brain isn't an evolutionary process.

I'm talking about someone lacking cognitive ability through a genetic defect.

They are incredibly flawed at it partially because our mental processes evolved together within the same brain, IMO.

That sounds like ID, to me.

The specific neural network that developed to support all of these processes is incredibly difficult to untangle after the fact, if possible at all.

What specific neural network?

811 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:08:01pm

re: #810 Obdicut

(Psst. Buck is lashing out in the circumcision thread.)

812 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:14:43pm

re: #810 Obdicut

I'm talking about someone lacking cognitive ability through a genetic defect.

But again, their brains are missing something that the other parts of their brain had evolved alongside in their ancestors.

That sounds like ID, to me.

In what way exactly?

What specific neural network?

The brain. The neurons in the brain form a network and specific neurons can take part in more than one cognitive process. That certain cognitive processes aren't independent from each other in the human brain does not necessarily validate a conclusion that other animals couldn't evolve a neural architecture to support a subset of those cognitive abilities.

813 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 12, 2012 2:19:38am

re: #812 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter

But again, their brains are missing something that the other parts of their brain had evolved alongside in their ancestors.

No, all parts of the brain did not evolve together simultaneously, and anyway, my point is that the sum is greater than the component parts.

In what way exactly?

Because it seems to imply a final shape, or a directed evolution. There's no reason why a brain losing some cognitive capacity couldn't be a beneficial mutation.

The brain.

So, what you meant was:

The brain that developed to support all of these processes is incredibly difficult to untangle after the fact, if possible at all.

And that's what's hanging me up-- the brain didn't develop to support those processes. Those processes developed because the brain developed in the directions it did.

That certain cognitive processes aren't independent from each other in the human brain

They are independent, they're just different when they're together than when they're separate-- much like our blood oxygen transport system.

a conclusion that other animals couldn't evolve a neural architecture to support a subset of those cognitive abilities.

I think they could. I think a subset is much different than the whole.

814 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Mar 12, 2012 9:07:20am

re: #813 Obdicut

No, all parts of the brain did not evolve together simultaneously, and anyway, my point is that the sum is greater than the component parts.

ALL parts didn't necessarily evolve together throughout our entire lineage. But unless you are trying to say that you have acquired new cognitive functions that your parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc didn't have you are admitting that these features have evolved together for at least some period of time.

Personally I am finding your argument to be almost exactly like what we hear from the ID camp. You are saying what good is half cognitive suite? A "cdesign proponentsist" might say what good is half an eye. My response is the same. Just as half an eye is better than no eye at all having some cognitive functions is better than having none at all.

Because it seems to imply a final shape, or a directed evolution. There's no reason why a brain losing some cognitive capacity couldn't be a beneficial mutation.

That's because you are looking at the final shape and trying to work backwards. You are trying to untangle the specific cognitive functions in humans from the specific neural architecture in humans, after the fact.

An analogy is removing fingers from a hand. If you removed, or never had, your index finger and thumb the rest of your hand isn't very good at being a human hand. That's a big deal for a human living in a human's niche. But if you are an arboreal herbivore missing those fingers might not be a big deal because your other fingers evolved to do a good job without them, as in 3 toed sloths. Removing fingers from a human hand is not analogous to another animal evolving 3 fingers.

Losing cognitive capacity couldn't be a beneficial mutation if it means the organism will never have a chance to reproduce. But I take your point. Of course losing some cognitive capacity could be beneficial if there is no longer a selection pressure for it. Such as:
[Link: www.sciencedaily.com...]

And that's what's hanging me up-- the brain didn't develop to support those processes. Those processes developed because the brain developed in the directions it did.

The brain and those processes evolved simultaneously.

They are independent, they're just different when they're together than when they're separate-- much like our blood oxygen transport system.

No, mental processes are not independent. That's why knocking out part of the brain has an effect on several areas of cognitive functions at once. Try the mental process of problem solving without having access to the mental process of memory.

I think they could. I think a subset is much different than the whole.

I agree. So what is your point? A pit eye is much different than an image forming eye. But they are still both useful to the organisms that possess them.

815 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 12, 2012 9:21:29am

re: #814 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter

ALL parts didn't necessarily evolve together throughout our entire lineage. But unless you are trying to say that you have acquired new cognitive functions that your parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc didn't have you are admitting that these features have evolved together for at least some period of time.

I'm just not sure what you mean by 'evolved together', I guess, or why it's not just a truism, then.

You are saying what good is half cognitive suite?

Nope. I'm saying half a cognitive suite can be very good indeed. Can you please point out where I said otherwise?

That's because you are looking at the final shape and trying to work backwards. You are trying to untangle the specific cognitive functions in humans from the specific neural architecture in humans, after the fact.

No, i'm not. I have no idea why you're misunderstanding me so badly.

I am saying that the various cognitive processes that we have have evolved, over time, and that their sum is greater than their parts, much like our hemoglobin transport system, or, yes, the eye evolved over time, and the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

An analogy is removing fingers from a hand. If you removed, or never had, your index finger and thumb the rest of your hand isn't very good at being a human hand.

Again, this is just your misunderstanding that I somehow said that lesser 'cognitive process' aren't useful. They are.

The brain and those processes evolved simultaneously.

No, they didn't. The brain evolved. The processes are a phenomena of the brain. Otherwise, what the hell do you mean by 'process'?

No, mental processes are not independent. That's why knocking out part of the brain has an effect on several areas of cognitive functions at once. Try the mental process of problem solving without having access to the mental process of memory.

Er, it'll be harder? I'm really not sure what your point is here. You seem to be arguing against yourself, and supporting my position that the all together they are greater than the sum of their parts.

I agree. So what is your point? A pit eye is much different than an image forming eye. But they are still both useful to the organisms that possess them.

Please point out where I said that the cognitive processes of other animals aren't useful.

816 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Mar 12, 2012 10:30:03am

re: #815 Obdicut

I thought my points were obvious, I don't know why you didn't understand. Why question my choice of words when I was merely using your term? Your other questions are beating up strawmen.

Again this is diverging from the point. I'm glad that we both agree with my main point that animals could evolve similar cognitive features as humans. We also both agree that cognitive functions work differently when added together. I don't agree that these cognitive functions are independent of each other. IMO, they are emergent features of a brain. But it is a minor point and a diversion.

I guess what I don't understand is the conclusion you are attempting to draw from "combinatorics matters". I agree. So what? Are you trying to say that kindness, or whatever, is an emergent feature of all human cognitive functions together and wouldn't be possible without all of them?

817 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 12, 2012 11:38:17am

re: #816 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter

Your other questions are beating up strawmen.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I think that the way you're talking about processes evolving AND the brain evolving is a mistake. The processes are a phenomenon of the brain.

I don't agree that these cognitive functions are independent of each other. IMO, they are emergent features of a brain. But it is a minor point and a diversion.

They are obviously independent of each other, because they did not all arise simultaneously, and we have human beings who lack specific cognitive functions. Though now that your'e saying they're emergent-- depending on what you mean by 'emergent'-- it sounds like you're agreeing that they're qualitatively different, and that it is not, as you claimed, a matter of magnitude.

I guess what I don't understand is the conclusion you are attempting to draw from "combinatorics matters". I agree. So what? Are you trying to say that kindness, or whatever, is an emergent feature of all human cognitive functions together and wouldn't be possible without all of them?

Yep. That's what I've very clearly said. The sum total of things we've got going on in our brain makes our consciousness qualitatively different even from our very close cousins.

818 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Mar 12, 2012 12:40:55pm

re: #817 Obdicut

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I think that the way you're talking about processes evolving AND the brain evolving is a mistake. The processes are a phenomenon of the brain.

The mental processes and the brain aren't separate things. In our ancestors as the brain evolved the ability to support specific problem solving capabilities, for example, it didn't do it in the absence of other already existing features such as memory. Certain problem solving skills depend on memory. Therefore that type of problem solving is not independent of other cognitive features, within humans.

They are obviously independent of each other, because they did not all arise simultaneously, and we have human beings who lack specific cognitive functions.

What does arising simultaneously have to do with it?

Yes, we do have humans that lack certain cognitive functions. For example, some people have lost their short term memory. Subsequently they are able to perform some tasks normally but are unable to perform other tasks such as certain kinds of problem solving. Therefore your contention that cognitive functions are independent of each other is directly contradicted. Some cognitive functions obviously do depend on each other.

Yep. That's what I've very clearly said. The sum total of things we've got going on in our brain makes our consciousness qualitatively different even from our very close cousins.

Okay, sure. The sum total of the things in our brain is different than the sum total of the things in other creatures brains. What I reject is that any one of the summands and their emergent phenomenon is necessarily unique to humans. If being able to display kindness is favored by selective pressures within a social species' niche then I see no reason that the animal would first have to evolve a brain that is equivalent to ours. Kindness can arise from emotional or intellectual roots.

819 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 12, 2012 12:54:30pm

re: #818 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter

The mental processes and the brain aren't separate things.

Well, the brain is a physical object, and the processes are phenomena occurring from that structure. You don't disagree with that, right?

In our ancestors as the brain evolved the ability to support specific problem solving capabilities, for example, it didn't do it in the absence of other already existing features such as memory.

Sure. I'm not sure why you think I'm saying it did.

What does arising simultaneously have to do with it?

Because I'm trying to make the point that each process that incrementally grew was useful in and of itself at the time that it evolved, without the higher complexity that came later.

Yes, we do have humans that lack certain cognitive functions. For example, some people have lost their short term memory. Subsequently they are able to perform some tasks normally but are unable to perform other tasks such as certain kinds of problem solving. Therefore your contention that cognitive functions are independent of each other is directly contradicted. .

I'm sorry, but if they weren't independent of each other, you couldn't knock one out and have the others remain, it would take them all down. I didn't say that losing one would have no effect on the whole-- in fact, my main point is that if you remove one, the whole loses far more than just that one. I've been very, very clear about that.

Some cognitive functions obviously do depend on each other.

Well, as I keep saying, the sum is greater than the parts. If you knock one of those parts out, the sum is decreased by a greater degree than just that one part. This is my point.

What I reject is that any one of the summands and their emergent phenomenon is necessarily unique to humans.

No idea what this means.

Lemme put it another way:

The functions are independent from each other. The phenomena are not.

If being able to display kindness is favored by selective pressures within a social species' niche then I see no reason that the animal would first have to evolve a brain that is equivalent to ours.

Er, they have to have the capacity to display kindness, right? The structure of the brain has to be able to support that capacity. The phenomena can't appear in the absence of structure.

820 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 12, 2012 1:00:31pm

re: #819 Obdicut

Grr.

Because I'm trying to make the point that each process structure that incrementally grew

821 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Mar 12, 2012 3:50:16pm

re: #819 Obdicut

Well, the brain is a physical object, and the processes are phenomena occurring from that structure. You don't disagree with that, right?

I agree.

Because I'm trying to make the point that each structure that incrementally grew was useful in and of itself at the time that it evolved, without the higher complexity that came later.

No, each structure is not useful in and of itself, it depends on the other already existing structures to function properly.

I'm sorry, but if they weren't independent of each other, you couldn't knock one out and have the others remain, it would take them all down. I didn't say that losing one would have no effect on the whole-- in fact, my main point is that if you remove one, the whole loses far more than just that one. I've been very, very clear about that.

Let's say we knock out a specific cognitive function X. If knocking X out doesn't effect cognitive functions A or B but completely eliminates cognitive functions C and D and has an intermediate effect on E and F then would you agree that cognitive functions C and D, if not E and F, were dependent on X?

Well, as I keep saying, the sum is greater than the parts. If you knock one of those parts out, the sum is decreased by a greater degree than just that one part. This is my point.

I agree.

No idea what this means.

What I have been saying all along, I don't think that any cognitive function is specific to humans. Only their sum.

Lemme put it another way:

The functions are independent from each other. The phenomena are not.

The functions are abstractions of processes in the brain. The functions are always supported by underlying structures. Those structures are not found separate from each other in nature but always as part of a network of structures that depend on each other. Cognitive functions can be conceptualized as separate entities, but are not wholly separate from each other in reality.

Er, they have to have the capacity to display kindness, right?

I would argue yes, depending on how you define kindness. Are you finally agreeing with me?

The structure of the brain has to be able to support that capacity. The phenomena can't appear in the absence of structure.

Correct. But I don't agree that the phenomena necessarily require a certain specific structure only found in humans. There are many ways to evolve structures that exhibit various capabilities through convergent evolution. The eyes of hawks and mantis shrimp are very different structures but they both satisfy the predator's need for high visual acuity.

822 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 12, 2012 4:03:11pm

re: #821 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter

No, each structure is not useful in and of itself, it depends on the other already existing structures to function properly.

I'm sorry, I can't see this being more than a truism. The brain also depends on having an oxygen transport system; does that mean that the brain isn't useful in itself without the oxygen transport system?

Let's say we knock out a specific cognitive function X. If knocking X out doesn't effect cognitive functions A or B but completely eliminates cognitive functions C and D and has an intermediate effect on E and F then would you agree that cognitive functions C and D, if not E and F, were dependent on X?

I think we're just tangled in function vs. structure here. You can only knock out a function by knocking out a structure; if you knock out the structure, you may affect a wide variety of functions, sure. That proves those functions are dependent on the interaction of those structures. Again, that's been one of my main points.

What I have been saying all along, I don't think that any cognitive function is specific to humans. Only their sum.

But you said that we differed only in magnitude, whereas I'm saying there's a qualitative difference. Are you no longer saying the difference is one of magnitude?

Those structures are not found separate from each other in nature but always as part of a network of structures that depend on each other.

Again, they're also only found in things with respiratory systems. So what?

I would argue yes, depending on how you define kindness. Are you finally agreeing with me?

Nope. I'm saying that you said that if it benefits the animal to develop kindness, they will; I'm pointing out that there has to be an actual evolutionary pathway for them to do so, a structure that can actually support that.

But I don't agree that the phenomena necessarily require a certain specific structure only found in humans.

But I never claimed it did.

There are many ways to evolve structures that exhibit various capabilities through convergent evolution.

Sure. And I haven't seen enough evidence that any other species has convergently evolved in such a way.

You seem to be mistaking me saying that I haven't been convinced that it exists for me saying it can't exist. I'm not.

823 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Mar 12, 2012 4:58:52pm

re: #822 Obdicut

I'm sorry, I can't see this being more than a truism. The brain also depends on having an oxygen transport system; does that mean that the brain isn't useful in itself without the oxygen transport system?

Do you think a brain is useful without oxygen? I don't.

I think we're just tangled in function vs. structure here. You can only knock out a function by knocking out a structure;

Correct.

if you knock out the structure, you may affect a wide variety of functions, sure. That proves those functions are dependent on the interaction of those structures. Again, that's been one of my main points.

You have been arguing the whole time that those functions are separate. They aren't. One area of the brain can contribute to many functions. Removing that part of the brain will have a direct effect on the functions that depended on it. Those functions are linked by that specific structure in that species. Different organisms can have different structures that link in different ways yet support similar functions.

But you said that we differed only in magnitude, whereas I'm saying there's a qualitative difference. Are you no longer saying the difference is one of magnitude?

I'm saying that with respect to each individual function there is only a difference in magnitude (not present through surpassing humans).

Again, they're also only found in things with respiratory systems. So what?

So these functions, as they are found in nature, are not separate. You argued that the functions are separate. I don't agree because that is only an abstract concept that is never realized.

Nope. I'm saying that you said that if it benefits the animal to develop kindness, they will; I'm pointing out that there has to be an actual evolutionary pathway for them to do so, a structure that can actually support that.

I said that they could, not that they will. Of course there needs to be an evolutionary pathway.

But I never claimed it did.

So animals could evolve their own brain structures that manifest kindness, but would require the whole suite of cognitive features in humans to do so? How do you determine what characteristics, such as kindness, depend on the whole suite of human cognition and which ones could arise from a subset of those cognitive functions? Why do you think kindness is one such characteristic?

Sure. And I haven't seen enough evidence that any other species has convergently evolved in such a way.

What would you accept as evidence of such?

You seem to be mistaking me saying that I haven't been convinced that it exists for me saying it can't exist. I'm not.

What I think you are saying is that kindness requires the whole range of human cognition rather than possibly manifesting from a subset of it.


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#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 191208We’ve mostly stopped counting; shovelfuls, cartloads, wheelbarrow runs, even bags. We do know we just laid 50 bags. It was the last bundle of bags in the original 500 bag order. That was our estimate - 500 bags.We actually 'only' ...
Dangerman (misuser of the sarc tag)
2 days ago
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Orville Peck - Nothing Fades Like the Light [OFFICIAL VIDEO] "Nothing Fades Like The Light" by Orville Peck off Pony LP (Release Date: March 22, 2019 Sub Pop / Royal Mountain) TOUR DATES: orvillepeck.comSPOTIFY: open.spotify.com...PONY LP: smarturl.it WEBSITE: orvillepeck.comFACEBOOK: facebook.comINSTAGRAM: instagram.comTWITTER: @orvillepeck #OrvillePeck #NothingFadesLikeTheLight #Country #Pony #HBOsWatchmen VIDEO CREDITS ...
Thanos
2 days, 5 hours ago
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IG Report on Russia Probe: No Evidence of Bias, but Issues With Surveillance : NPR Updated at 5:22 p.m. ET The Justice Department's internal watchdog determined the FBI had sufficient evidence to open the Russia investigation — but sharply criticized the bureau over its surveillance of a former adviser to the Trump campaign. In ...
Thanos
2 days, 22 hours ago
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GHOSTBUSTERS: AFTERLIFE - Official Trailer (HD) Everything happens for a reason. Watch the new trailer for #Ghostbusters: Afterlife in theaters next summer. Visit Site:ghostbusters.com Follow Us On Social:facebook.comtwitter.cominstagram.com Subscribe to Sony Pictures for exclusive content: bit.ly From director Jason Reitman and producer Ivan Reitman, comes ...
Thanos
3 days, 4 hours ago
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Wonder Woman 1984 TrailerStars Gal Gadot, Pedro Pascal, Kristen Wiig. Directed by Patty Jenkins.
Dr Lizardo
3 days, 16 hours ago
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House Votes to Back Two-State Solution in Middle East WASHINGTON (CN) — Rebuking President Donald Trump, the House of Representatives on Friday passed a resolution supporting a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Smoke rises from Gaza City on May 5, 2019, after Israel launched over 350 airstrikes ...
Thanos
5 days, 8 hours ago
Views: 575 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
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