Louisiana Reaps What It Sowed

Science • Views: 2,015

Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal promoted and signed into law a stealth creationism bill that will allow the teaching of “intelligent design” in the science classrooms of Louisiana public schools, and now the fallout has begun.

One of America’s leading scientific organizations, the Society for Integrative and Comparative Biology, has announced that they are boycotting the state of Louisiana.

As President of the Society for Integrative and Comparative Biology (SICB), I am writing to inform you of a recent decision by our Executive Committee. We will not hold the Society’s 2011 annual meeting in New Orleans even though the city has been a popular venue for us in the past, and we received a reasonable site and organization package for the meeting. The Executive Committee voted to hold the 2011 meeting in Salt Lake City in large part because of legislation S8561, which you signed into law in June 2008. It is the firm opinion of SICS’s leadership that this law undermines the integrity of science and science education in Louisiana.

Barbara Forrest comments:

No doubt the creationists at the Discovery Institute and the LA Family Forum will try to make hay out of this boycott by blaming SICB. But it is not the SICB that has done the damage here; it is the legislature and the governor, egged on by the Discovery Institute and the LFF. The SICB held its 2004 meeting in New Orleans, and it was a huge event that contributed to the city’s tourism business.

The legislators and Gov. Jindal are the people who refused to consider the economic damage to the state that they were warned would result from their passing this bill. Other state agencies that have done stupid things like this, e.g., the Kansas Board of Education in 1999, when it stripped evolution out of the state science standards, were warned by their pro-science citizens that such decisions could damage their states’ economies. The public officials never seem to take such warnings seriously. We pro-science activists, scientists, and teachers who lobbied against the Louisiana bill last year — in other words, people who do real work for the state of Louisiana such as, say, educating students and searching for a cure for cancer — tried to warn public officials of repercussions like this. They ignored us.

The legislature and Gov. Jindal — and no one else — bear the responsibility. The scientific organizations, not to mention all the other organizations that have come to New Orleans, as well as to other Louisiana convention centers, to do business, deserve credit for wanting to help the city and our state. Indeed, they already have helped the city and the state as a whole many times in the past by coming here for their meetings. Any negative reactions against SICB about the fallout from their decision not to hold future meetings in Louisiana while this law is on the books should be turned around and properly directed toward the people who actually did the damage to Louisiana: the legislature, Bobby Jindal, the Louisiana Family Forum, and the Discovery Institute — not the SICB.

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532 comments
1 DEZes  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:36:10pm

Let the meltdowns begin.

2 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:36:11pm

Salt Lake City. So, now the Mormons are mobbed up with the atheists? Who knew?

3 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:37:58pm

Blowback’s a bitch.

4 Desert Dog  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:39:24pm

Say goodbye to “President Jindal” (“Vice President” and “Senator” too)

5 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:39:25pm

Maybe they should hold it there and make a huge, flaming deal about how ignorant the law is.

6 Bob Dillon  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:39:53pm

There still is intelligent life in the universe.

Way to go SICB.

7 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:40:13pm

re: #5 MandyManners

Maybe they should hold it there and make a huge, flaming deal about how ignorant the law is.

Nahh. It’s not classy to go into a joint and then talk about how crappy it is.

Much better this way.

8 debutaunt  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:40:55pm

re: #5 MandyManners

What a jindaled-up mess.

9 Shug  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:41:16pm

Jindal and the ID republicans are anchors on the Good Ship GOP

10 itellu3times  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:41:28pm

Small loss of tourist dollars from these, all they do is stand around in the park all day integrating, comparing, and biologizing.

/jindal

11 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:41:41pm

If we don’t like this,do we ding it down?

12 debutaunt  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:42:27pm

re: #11 Walter L. Newton

Jindle it up into the sunshine.

13 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:42:49pm

re: #9 Shug

Jindal and the ID republicans are anchors on the Good Ship GOP

This ID/Creationist garbage is conservative the same way the wooden horse was Trojan. Expect similar results.

14 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:43:13pm

re: #10 itellu3times

Small loss of tourist dollars from these, all they do is stand around in the park all day integrating, comparing, and biologizing.

/jindal

True, they won’t be out in the casino, will they

15 Luigi  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:43:29pm

I know a whole lot of Americans don’t believe in evolution but the Republican party effectively cedes power to the Dems for as long as it makes that position an unstated plank in its platform. Surely, even the creationists must see that the damage this one-party rule is doing to our country is far worse than their kids being being taught biblical creationism in school.

I think LGF is doing huge public service by focusing in on this issue from ‘the right.’

I want to live a long healthy life. I might get there by praying, but I already know how to pray. What I don’t know how to do for myself is develop new genetic based treatments for disease. I’ll take Doors Number 1 and 2, please.

Thank you, Charles.

16 Bob Dillon  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:43:34pm

re: #11 Walter L. Newton

If we don’t like this,do we ding it down?

Why would you vote to bury it?

17 gman  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:44:10pm

re: #4 Desert Dog

Say goodbye to “President Jindal” (“Vice President” and “Senator” too)

I don’t think so. Watch for the GOP to come to his rescue on this one.

18 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:44:13pm

re: #7 Guanxi88

Nahh. It’s not classy to go into a joint and then talk about how crappy it is.

Much better this way.

Screw etiquette. This is war against the dark ages.

19 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:44:28pm

re: #8 debutaunt

What a jindaled-up mess.

It’s gonna’ bite him in the butt.

20 davinvalkri  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:44:47pm

Do you think anyone in the Louisiana government cares? 2011 is a comparatively long way off for them.

21 Gunzip  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:45:10pm

This is off topic, but…

Heads up, people. The 9/11 Troofers are going nuts over a Beijing building fire in which the building did NOT collapse. (Google “beijing fire wtc”)

If you come across this, my suggestion is to say “Every day buildings burn without collapsing. Why did you wait until now to point to one? I’m not sure what difference one more makes. You could have pointed to any building fire a year ago.”

This drives them nuts.

Eventually, through the Socratic method, you may get them to agree that sometimes burning buildings collapse and sometimes they don’t, depending on a lot of factors. At that point, the argument is easy.

22 davinvalkri  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:45:44pm

re: #17 gman

I don’t think so. Watch for the GOP to come to his rescue on this one.

Please don’t come to his rescue GOP! He made his bed, now let him lie in it.

23 DEZes  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:45:52pm

Jindal is doing a great job of screwing up a real education for countless students.

24 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:46:09pm

re: #18 MandyManners

Screw etiquette. This is war against the dark ages.

True, Mandy, very true. All too often, one forgets that.

25 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:46:17pm

I’ve mentioned it her a number of times, we have a talk show host, lawyer named Dan Caplis. He’s been on the radio for 10 years, big time creationist (he’s Catholic, but very much Apostolic, so he doesn’t toe the line with some more recent statements by the church), anti-abortion, very much all the fundy stuff that we see coming from the religious right… and the state GOP is looking closely at him for state senate.

The GOP is going to hang themselves.

26 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:46:55pm

re: #23 DEZes

Jindal is doing a great job of screwing up a real education for countless students.

What? Are they starting to try to drag mathematics into the abyss with biology?

27 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:47:26pm
We pro-science activists, scientists, and teachers who lobbied against the Louisiana bill last year — in other words, people who do real work for the state of Louisiana such as, say, educating students and searching for a cure for cancer — tried to warn public officials of repercussions like this. They ignored us.

They did the same thing in Dover. The school board there was warned repeatedly their position would lead to a lawsuit, and they didn’t even blink. They went happily on their way to pushing ID into the high school and then onto….. a lawsuit!

It’s like they don’t get it.

28 Danderfoot  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:48:00pm

I’ll reserve my judgement for if we see any national church conventions reroute themselves to LA in spite of this.

29 DEZes  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:48:24pm

re: #26 Guanxi88

What? Are they starting to try to drag mathematics into the abyss with biology?

They do have a problem with numbers above 6000. ;)

30 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:48:30pm

re: #16 Bobibutu

Why would you vote to bury it?

I don’t know what you mean “bury it?” I’m against the passage of this stuff, so I wasn’t sure if I ding it up, it appears that I agree with it.

Bury it. I don’t understand. I’ve never seen these thread go away on here.

31 Boolz  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:48:31pm

so I guess no more crawfish or jambalaya for scientists…after that, what’s left to boycott from Louisiana?

32 Sunlight  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:49:03pm

Do we figure the SICB people supported Obama and the Dem sweep? Well, creationism is one form of “anti-science-ism”, but the current Dem crowd isn’t any better. Science will be stripped down (except maybe some windmill science, with bird death numbers suppressed, or some of NASA’s fake temperature logging) and the $$ used for “affordable housing”, debt relief for overextended predatory borrowers, and bags of food aid bartered off the back of US govt’s trucks. The science education people will get what they asked for by voting against the “neandrathal” republicans.

Better get ready for life underground when our enemies see this voluntary weakness.

33 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:49:23pm

re: #24 Guanxi88

Don’t these people see that SCIENCE makes it possible to track a hurricane?

34 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:49:38pm

re: #20 davinvalkri

Do you think anyone in the Louisiana government cares? 2011 is a comparatively long way off for them.

They should care. Convention revenue can really boost a city, and with the current economic slump, that money might be sorely missed even if it’s a couple years away.

35 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:49:54pm

re: #33 MandyManners

Don’t these people see that SCIENCE makes it possible to track a hurricane?

That’s not science; that’s TV.

36 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:50:07pm

re: #25 Walter L. Newton

I’ve mentioned it her a number of times, we have a talk show host, lawyer named Dan Caplis. He’s been on the radio for 10 years, big time creationist (he’s Catholic, but very much Apostolic, so he doesn’t toe the line with some more recent statements by the church), anti-abortion, very much all the fundy stuff that we see coming from the religious right… and the state GOP is looking closely at him for state senate.

The GOP is going to hang themselves.

Caplis?

37 gman  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:50:45pm

re: #21 Gunzip

This is off topic, but…

Heads up, people. The 9/11 Troofers are going nuts over a Beijing building fire in which the building did NOT collapse. (Google “beijing fire wtc”)

If you come across this, my suggestion is to say “Every day buildings burn without collapsing. Why did you wait until now to point to one? I’m not sure what difference one more makes. You could have pointed to any building fire a year ago.”

This drives them nuts.


Eventually, through the Socratic method, you may get them to agree that sometimes burning buildings collapse and sometimes they don’t, depending on a lot of factors. At that point, the argument is easy.

If you must deal with a troofer,
The Golden Rule: Life’s a bitch and the burden of proof is on you not me

38 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:51:07pm

re: #34 Sharmuta

They should care. Convention revenue can really boost a city, and with the current economic slump, that money might be sorely missed even if it’s a couple years away.

Yep ‘cause that money just went *poof*. Now they’ll need to find a way to replace it.

39 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:51:13pm

re: #36 MandyManners

Caplis?

[Link: www.dancaplislaw.com…]

40 jjmckay1216  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:51:37pm

re: #36 MandyManners

Caplis?

actually. I worked with caplis when i was doing rockies games om koa and he is really a nice guy

41 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:51:45pm

re: #35 Guanxi88

That’s not science; that’s TV.

There really is a little man with a map inside that box with knobs.

42 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:51:52pm

Even preparations for a convention boost the host city’s economy as representatives from the convention travel in and out to make sure their convention plans are on track. Then there’s the workers prepping the venue, concessions…. lots of money to be made before and during conventions.

43 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:52:17pm

re: #39 Walter L. Newton

[Link: www.dancaplislaw.com…]

Oh, I know who he is. I just cannot imagine him as an elected official.

44 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:52:56pm

re: #40 jjmckay1216

actually. I worked with caplis when i was doing rockies games om koa and he is really a nice guy

I would never vote him into any office. I don’t care if he is a nice guy. He’s way too far right for me.

45 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:53:03pm

re: #40 jjmckay1216

actually. I worked with caplis when i was doing rockies games om koa and he is really a nice guy

Nice guy or not, I don’t want anyone in politics who will force anti-science down a public school student’s throat.

46 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:53:17pm

re: #41 MandyManners

There really is a little man with a map inside that box with knobs.

Well, the alternative explanation has little scriptural support.

47 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:54:28pm

re: #42 Sharmuta

Even preparations for a convention boost the host city’s economy as representatives from the convention travel in and out to make sure their convention plans are on track. Then there’s the workers prepping the venue, concessions…. lots of money to be made before and during conventions.

Airport taxes. Rental car fees and taxes.

48 jjmckay1216  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:54:40pm

re: #45 MandyManners

Nice guy or not, I don’t want anyone in politics who will force anti-science down a public school student’s throat.

oh, i agree. politics NO WAY. friend, definitely. he spouts his crap during his show, but off air, he talks about all things in normal fashion. wish he could do that on the air, might have better ratings

49 jjmckay1216  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:55:32pm

btw, Mandy, never had that side of him come out off the air…just saying

50 Bob Dillon  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:56:20pm

re: #30 Walter L. Newton

I don’t know what you mean “bury it?” I’m against the passage of this stuff, so I wasn’t sure if I ding it up, it appears that I agree with it.

Bury it. I don’t understand. I’ve never seen these thread go away on here.

Some folks ding down because they don’t like what’s posted - shooting the messenger.

Some ding up, glad to see the exposure of something even tho it’s something they don’t agree with.

Perhaps “bury” was a poor choice.

I think the point is that Jindal & Co. were warned. They went ahead anyway. There are consequences and here is one of them. For me that is a good thing.

51 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:56:29pm

re: #32 Sunlight

Sad to say, I think both Left and Right have got some real housecleaning to do when it comes to the sciences. Lefties want research into their phoney-baloney pet projects and causes, and the Right is burdened with a bunch of folk who think Bereshit works as physics, biology, and anthropology textbook.

A civilization does not move forward, or even survive for long, once it begins to attack its foundations, and the modern West is nothing if not technological.

52 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:56:58pm

re: #48 jjmckay1216

oh, i agree. politics NO WAY. friend, definitely. he spouts his crap during his show, but off air, he talks about all things in normal fashion. wish he could do that on the air, might have better ratings

And he has stated publicly that the Colorado GOP is looking at him for a possible future run for office. And I have heard reps of the GOP themselves on his show stating the same facts.

And it’s his on-air persona that he would be running with. At least that’s how I read it.

53 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:57:13pm

re: #47 MandyManners

The list goes on and on. Hotels, restaurants & bars, retail…. All before and during. My city has a great convention center, and I see the impact conventions bring to our economy all the time.

54 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:57:53pm

re: #49 jjmckay1216

btw, Mandy, never had that side of him come out off the air…just saying

I could be wrong but, I’ve come to think that those who support the old ways of the Catholic church are not enamored of evolution. Am I wrong?

55 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:58:21pm

re: #53 Sharmuta

The list goes on and on. Hotels, restaurants & bars, retail…. All before and during. My city has a great convention center, and I see the impact conventions bring to our economy all the time.

Ripples go a long way.

56 MrPaulRevere  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:58:51pm

I found an interesting video about Jindal and the exorcism he participated in.

57 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:59:17pm

re: #47 MandyManners

Airport taxes. Rental car fees and taxes.

When I was last in NO on business, after cab fare and meals, my next largest expense was liquor. They had a package store on every corner. Good times, and they sure made money off me.

58 jjmckay1216  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:59:37pm

re: #52 Walter L. Newton

walter. don’t get me wrong, i am not advocating him run for office. i was just saying as part of clear channel and seeing him every day “off air” and just talking “stuff”, he came across as someone who seemed to have his crap together. Now on the air, I am not a fan…

59 Boolz  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:59:54pm

maybe New Orleans doesn’t want scientific conventions in their city. Scientists are known party animals. Get a couple of Hurricanes or Zombies down their throat, next thing you know they’re flushing mini nuclear bombs down the toilet and spray painting pi to the last digit on city walls

60 [deleted]  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 1:59:54pm
61 Dianna  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:00:21pm

re: #54 MandyManners

I’m not entirely sure of the history. But I remember reading that the current position on evolution is pretty much the same one as has been held for approximately 80 years.

62 reine.de.tout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:01:41pm

OT OT OT OT OT

The cookbook is ready for sale! Click my nic.

Final price is $16.41 before postage - that is more than I originally told you it would cost, but when we fixed the “glitch”, there were more pages than before and the books are priced based on number of pages.

Many thanks to:
Ploome, the idea person, for suggesting the project
FlakMusic, who did the heavy lifting getting this in pdf format and uploading it to the publishing site, AND for the back cover
Jaunte for the wonderful front cover artwork
vxbush for proofreading - any errors that may remain are not her fault!
And everyone who submitted a recipe or suggestions!

I hope everyone enjoys the book!

63 Shug  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:01:57pm

The real question is whether or not the comparative biologists will boycott Mardi Gras

64 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:02:07pm

re: #58 jjmckay1216

walter. don’t get me wrong, i am not advocating him run for office. i was just saying as part of clear channel and seeing him every day “off air” and just talking “stuff”, he came across as someone who seemed to have his crap together. Now on the air, I am not a fan…

Gotcha (P.S. Silverman is a little hard to take too)

65 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:02:14pm

Semi OT: New Biotech initiative…..

Biotechnology’s potential barely exploited: scientists

New research tools will bring a boom in biotechnology that will unlock the enormous potential of using synthetic life to cure disease and develop environmentally friendly fuels, scientists say.
….
There is both public and private interest in making these basic tools more relevant.

“We are advocating now a national initiative in synthetic biology that would include in part a route map for getting better in building genetic material, constructing DNA from scratch and assembling it into genes and genomes,” Endy said.

An open technology platform “where the genetic componentry is available for anybody who might want to start a biotechnology company” is critical to advancing the field.

“In the next month we will announce a public agreement as a new legal framework for sharing standard biological parts,” Endy added.

An open platform could significantly reduce the amount of time and money it takes to develop new drugs, said Jay Keasling, professor of biochemical engineering at the University of California at Berkeley.

66 solomonpanting  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:02:17pm

The SCIB just closed its 2009 meeting in Boston, with over 1,850 participants for five days.

67 Rexatosis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:02:52pm

Academic Conferences/Meetings/Conventions are BIG business. I will be at one in April and we usually have between 1500 and 2000+ participants over 4 days. There is some serious coin dropped even by those of us academics on a tight budget (transportation, hotel, food). If SICB’s boycott spreads to other disciplines the economic impact on N.O. could be very large. The political class (on both sides of the aisle needs to learn policy decisions have consquences and stop living/legislating in a damn bubble.

68 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:03:03pm

re: #57 Guanxi88

When I was last in NO on business, after cab fare and meals, my next largest expense was liquor. They had a package store on every corner. Good times, and they sure made money off me.

Do scientists party hard?

69 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:03:21pm

re: #56 MrPaulRevere

That’s a campaign killer.

70 Ojoe  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:03:51pm

The Republican party is marginalizing itself.

71 mfarmer1  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:04:29pm

re: #21 Gunzip

This is off topic, but…

Heads up, people. The 9/11 Troofers are going nuts over a Beijing building fire in which the building did NOT collapse. (Google “beijing fire wtc”)

If you come across this, my suggestion is to say “Every day buildings burn without collapsing. Why did you wait until now to point to one? I’m not sure what difference one more makes. You could have pointed to any building fire a year ago.”

This drives them nuts.

Eventually, through the Socratic method, you may get them to agree that sometimes burning buildings collapse and sometimes they don’t, depending on a lot of factors. At that point, the argument is easy.

I emailed Charles the day that thing was burning and said this would happen. I was off a bit however, as I thought we would have heard immediately from the troofers. Looks like they needed a week to get their scientific experiments with Erector sets in order.

72 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:04:56pm

re: #60 Luigi

Just an FYI. I clicked that link to that townhall link earlier and that site tried one of those annoying virus scan pop-up scams on me. I will never go to townhall again.

73 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:05:00pm

re: #61 Dianna

I’m not entirely sure of the history. But I remember reading that the current position on evolution is pretty much the same one as has been held for approximately 80 years.

I was thinking of the SCPX or whatever it’s called, the one to which that Holocaust-denying priest belongs.

74 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:05:08pm

re: #68 MandyManners

Do scientists party hard?

I knew a fellow, majored in biochemistry as an undergrad, working on a doctorate in Molecular biology - he could drink Rhode Island under the table.

That’s a scientist. Now, philosophers, well, they’re real drinkers:

75 Dianna  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:05:10pm

re: #68 MandyManners

Do scientists party hard?

If you want a raucous and informative party, try the anthropologists.

76 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:05:33pm

re: #62 reine.de.tout

Thanks for all the hard work.

77 Bloodnok  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:06:24pm

re: #66 solomonpanting

The SCIB just closed its 2009 meeting in Boston, with over 1,850 participants for five days.

Oh. I thought the city felt a bit more G-dless than usual.

///

78 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:06:51pm

re: #74 Guanxi88

I knew a fellow, majored in biochemistry as an undergrad, working on a doctorate in Molecular biology - he could drink Rhode Island under the table.

That’s a scientist. Now, philosophers, well, they’re real drinkers:


[Video]

Philosophers play a mean game of soccer, too:

79 MrPaulRevere  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:06:52pm

re: #69 Sharmuta

Yeah, I would say so. And its a pity such a bright guy with a promising future made disastrous choices.

80 DEZes  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:07:03pm

re: #62 reine.de.tout
Thanks, I will be submitting an order.

81 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:07:06pm

re: #62 reine.de.tout

How many pages and how many recipes are in the book?

82 [deleted]  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:07:23pm
83 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:07:25pm

re: #60 Luigi

Also- Dianna West supports euro-fascists. This idea that there was a terrorist attack on our economy is nothing but wild speculation at this point.

84 Dianna  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:07:31pm

re: #73 MandyManners

I was thinking of the SCPX or whatever it’s called, the one to which that Holocaust-denying priest belongs.

I’m not terribly clear on their views, except that they’re deeply opposed to almost everything decided at Vatican II.

The only point I’ve ever agreed with them on was that the mass should be in Latin. But that’s just because I like the Latin mass (with three Greek words).

85 jjmckay1216  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:07:36pm

re: #64 Walter L. Newton

Gotcha (P.S. Silverman is a little hard to take too)

just his voice? lol

86 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:08:00pm

re: #82 Joe Bananas…in Pyjamas

Bye!

87 DEZes  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:08:29pm

And so it begins, sheesh.

88 ziggyelman  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:08:36pm

Oh no, not the Society for Integrative and Comparative Biology! That’s gonna cost them billions and billions of dollars! ;)

89 clgood  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:08:56pm

The Catholic Church is just fine with evolution. Someone blogged about that recently.

Salt Lake City is an interesting choice. The Mormons are also pretty much at peace with Darwin, although there used to be some young-earthers there. The food in New Orleans is a lot better, though. The scientists are sacrificing a lot for their principles. I salute them for that.

90 Dianna  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:09:01pm

re: #83 Sharmuta

Please - she only uses one “n” in her name!

91 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:09:14pm

re: #82 Joe Bananas…in Pyjamas

And of course, you have been such a tremendous contributor, I have no idea what we are going to do after you are gone.

Registered since: Sep 20, 2004 at 4:38 pm
No. of comments posted: 20
No. of links posted: 0

92 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:09:37pm

Here they come.

93 [deleted]  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:09:40pm
94 Dianna  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:10:05pm

re: #82 Joe Bananas…in Pyjamas

Oh…it’s another one!

Please read up on what a scientific theory is.

Hint: It is not a “wild speculation” or a WAG, or even a SWAG.

95 DEZes  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:10:06pm

Houston, we have a meltdown.

96 Bloodnok  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:10:10pm

re: #93 Bloodnok

Why I quoted that is beyond me. Sorry, Charles.

97 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:10:11pm

re: #82 Joe Bananas…in Pyjamas

You’re right. Evolution is only a theory.

In science, the word theory is used as a plausible general principle or body of principles offered to explain a phenomenon.

Please enlighten yourself a little more about science. It’s not difficult in the information age to do so. Thank you.

98 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:10:12pm

Man, that’s a fast stick.

99 Luigi  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:10:18pm

re: #72 Sharmuta

Just an FYI. I clicked that link to that townhall link earlier and that site tried one of those annoying virus scan pop-up scams on me. I will never go to townhall again.

Actually, Gateway has the best coverage of this but they’re link to the West article goes to one of those scary virus scan screens. That’s why I didn’t use the Gateway link. I didn’t want to be responsible for anybody going to the virus screen which seems to have hijacked the West article.

As I like to say, I hate to be paranoid, the meds make me fat.

100 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:10:27pm

re: #93 Bloodnok

Here we see a fine example of “ID meltdown template #4”.

Yes, there are many ways to make the case for ID &/or Creationism - all of them wrong.

101 Pigtown Water Dog  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:11:12pm

re: #62 reine.de.tout

How cool is that cookbook—I’ve had so much fun looking at the cover art already. Thank you all so much for doing this—great.

102 Shug  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:11:16pm

I like to think of the banning of these asshats as a form of natural selection

103 Dianna  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:11:43pm

re: #98 MandyManners

Man, that’s a fast stick.

Yay, Charles!

104 horse  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:11:47pm

If there is a boycott in this story, it is the Louisiana government boycotting actual science in its public education science classes.

Sorry if this has been posted before, but I wanted to read the law and understand what it meant myself. Upon initial reading the short text of LA SB 733 (which apparently became S8561 as listed above) appears innocuous. However, this link provides a good analysis (esp. page 3) on how this law will be used to bring non-scientific content into the science class. As stated in the analysis, it would seem the law’s language of “open discussion of scientific theories” will permit the discussion of creationism and its criticisms of evolution in science class.

105 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:12:35pm

re: #104 horse

If there is a boycott in this story, it is the Louisiana government boycotting actual science in its public education science classes.

Sorry if this has been posted before, but I wanted to read the law and understand what it meant myself. Upon initial reading the short text of LA SB 733 (which apparently became S8561 as listed above) appears innocuous. However, this link provides a good analysis (esp. page 3) on how this law will be used to bring non-scientific content into the science class. As stated in the analysis, it would seem the law’s language of “open discussion of scientific theories” will permit the discussion of creationism and its criticisms of evolution in science class.

Just wait until CAIR gets in on the action!

106 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:12:51pm

re: #98 MandyManners

Man, that’s a fast stick.

Whack-a-mole!

Personally, I think Charles runs these threads from time to time to allow the moles, trolls, and lost souls the opportunity to reveal themselves for excision.

107 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:12:56pm

re: #90 Dianna

Sorry, Dear!

108 TedStriker  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:13:28pm

re: #82 Joe Bananas…in Pyjamas

You know, no one’s forcing you to stay here…

109 Shug  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:13:30pm

re: #105 MandyManners

Just wait until CAIR gets in on the action!

they only have about 80 actual members, don’t they?

but I would be very glad if CAIR would boycott my city

110 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:14:15pm

I just checked the referrers list to see where the creationists are coming from. LGF is getting some hits to evolution threads from here. What the hell is that?

111 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:14:21pm

re: #109 Shug

they only have about 80 actual members, don’t they?

but I would be very glad if CAIR would boycott my city

I’m talking about putting the Koran’s version of creation into the public schools.

112 MrPaulRevere  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:14:25pm

re: #83 Sharmuta

The $500B ‘Run On Banks’ Didn’t Happen…I haven’t read the piece I’m posting, just passing it along…[Link: sweetness-light.com…]

113 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:15:36pm

Do you suppose these guys coordinate their little thread-raids, or do they just sort of show up on their own, or what?

I mean, we’ve got guys been registered for years, some of them, have posted only a handful of times, and then melt-down on ID threads. They’re obviously plants of some type, but it seems like a lotta effort to get whacked.

114 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:15:41pm

re: #99 Luigi

I think Ms West is losing her mind. A terrorist attack? I know a number of people, Americans, who have decided to yank their money out of the market because they see the market tanking and wanted to save what they could. Until there’s hard evidence to suggest otherwise, then I can’t subscribe to this notion.

115 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:15:50pm

re: #110 Killgore Trout

I just checked the referrers list to see where the creationists are coming from. LGF is getting some hits to evolution threads from here. What the hell is that?

Kos is at the top of it’s blog-roll.

[Link: www.jabberwonk.com…]

116 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:16:28pm

re: #114 Sharmuta

I think Ms West is losing her mind. A terrorist attack? I know a number of people, Americans, who have decided to yank their money out of the market because they see the market tanking and wanted to save what they could. Until there’s hard evidence to suggest otherwise, then I can’t subscribe to this notion.

Isn’t Pamela promoting it?

117 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:16:37pm

re: #110 Killgore Trout

I just checked the referrers list to see where the creationists are coming from. LGF is getting some hits to evolution threads from here. What the hell is that?

I absolutely hate when people do that. They’re stealing my content by putting it in a frame on their site. Be right back after I put a stop to this.

118 Afrocity  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:16:50pm

Sharmutra,

I don’t agree with Jindal doing this. Still a conservative? :-)

119 Shug  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:17:03pm

re: #111 MandyManners

I’m talking about putting the Koran’s version of creation into the public schools.


Yep

When it comes to taxpayer funded public schools where ID goes, Sharia can’t be far behind

120 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:17:06pm

re: #115 MandyManners

Hmmm…It looks like a progressive version of Digg or Fark.

121 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:17:10pm

re: #117 Charles

I absolutely hate when people do that. They’re stealing my content by putting it in a frame on their site. Be right back after I put a stop to this.

You go, Charles.

122 Randall Gross  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:17:32pm

re: #112 MrPaulRevere

The $500B ‘Run On Banks’ Didn’t Happen…I haven’t read the piece I’m posting, just passing it along…[Link: sweetness-light.com…]

It figures, anything Dianne West pimps is typically hysterical froth or hyperbole.

123 ziggyelman  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:18:12pm

I see the SICB thinks Global warming talk is being suppressed as well….

Resolution on Evolution and Climate Change

Recognizing that science is under attack in the U.S. as evidenced by the wide-spread disregard for the scientific process and the suppression and distortion of scientific data across a broad spectrum of areas in which we, as biologists, have special expertise, be it resolved that the SICB take a public stand in support of scientific truth, especially:

1. in support of the teaching of evolution as a scientific fact, and under the name of “evolution;”
2. in support of efforts to publicize broadly the impacts of the suppression of scientific evidence on societal concerns such as global climate change, environmental conservation and stem-cell research; and
3. to authorize the SICB Executive Committee to issue press releases and editorials, initiate and publish statements, and sign collective statements consistent with (1) and (2) above.


(Approved 5 Jan 2008)

[Link: www.sicb.org…]

124 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:18:35pm

re: #119 Shug

Yep

When it comes to taxpayer funded public schools where ID goes, Sharia can’t be far behind

I wonder if the average supporter of teaching it in schools knows all about the work of the DI and its links to that Turkish Muslim.

125 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:18:50pm

re: #120 Killgore Trout

Hmmm…It looks like a progressive version of Digg or Fark.

They seem to be thieves.

126 clgood  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:18:53pm

re: #82 Joe Bananas…in Pyjamas

“Only a theory” belies a misunderstanding. I used to make the same error. In the context of science “theory” has a very clear meaning. It means something is so settled that it can consistently be used to make predictions. The theory of gravity is also “only a theory”. But you ignore it at your peril. It emphatically does not mean “a guess”. A scientist calls that a hypothesis. once a hypothesis has been tested for reliability and repeatability it can graduate to a theory.

I sympathize, because I used to be where you are. In the hopes that it will help, here are a few points to consider:

Evolution is the only scientific theory there is for speciation. There are no competing theories. That doesn’t mean that another theory might not come along and displace it but, so far, no other theory exists.

The theory of evolution is the basis for everything in modern biology. What that means is that it is passing the test of validity thousands of times a day in multiple fields.

The fossil evidence fully supports the theory. The old canard about missing transitional fossils has been swept away under an avalanche of transitional fossils. In any case that was always a “god of the gaps” fallacy.

The fossil evidence is absolutely dwarfed by research into DNA. Common ancestry has left a clear, irrefutable trail in our genes.

In other words, refusing to accept the theory of evolution has reached the point where refusing to believe in a round earth was by the 1700s. It really is that clear now.

127 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:18:55pm

re: #116 MandyManners

Isn’t Pamela promoting it?

If so, then it can be definitively categorized as nirther nonsense.

128 LGoPs  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:19:31pm

re: #113 Guanxi88

Do you suppose these guys coordinate their little thread-raids, or do they just sort of show up on their own, or what?

I mean, we’ve got guys been registered for years, some of them, have posted only a handful of times, and then melt-down on ID threads. They’re obviously plants of some type, but it seems like a lotta effort to get whacked.

They’re like that ‘Judean People’s Front Crack Suicide Squad’ from Life of Brian. Run in here and commit electronic suicide………
Go figure.

129 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:19:35pm

re: #117 Charles

I absolutely hate when people do that. They’re stealing my content by putting it in a frame on their site. Be right back after I put a stop to this.

So are they going to see unevolved tubgrlz or goatse?

130 reine.de.tout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:19:42pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

How many pages and how many recipes are in the book?

pp 3 - 153 are recipe pages. Some pages have 2, sometimes one recipe took 2 pages. But there are probably right about 150 recipes.

pp 157 - 172 contain the ROFLMAO section, includes selected quotes on various topics like, what goes on at a lizard meeting, Obama-Pelosi-and the Dems, sometimes we have transatlantic spelling wars, someone’s ready for the boob thread, the LGF guide to personal hygiene, general posting etiquette, A Buzzsawmonkey Moment, conspiracy theories, How a Lady Fills her Gas Tank by Mandy Manners, Very Punny Stuff, and a couple of others.

There are also some blank pages so you can write or print & paste things you want to keep.

131 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:20:00pm

re: #123 ziggyelman

I see the SICB thinks Global warming talk is being suppressed as well….

Resolution on Evolution and Climate Change

Recognizing that science is under attack in the U.S. as evidenced by the wide-spread disregard for the scientific process and the suppression and distortion of scientific data across a broad spectrum of areas in which we, as biologists, have special expertise, be it resolved that the SICB take a public stand in support of scientific truth, especially:

1. in support of the teaching of evolution as a scientific fact, and under the name of “evolution;”
2. in support of efforts to publicize broadly the impacts of the suppression of scientific evidence on societal concerns such as global climate change, environmental conservation and stem-cell research; and
3. to authorize the SICB Executive Committee to issue press releases and editorials, initiate and publish statements, and sign collective statements consistent with (1) and (2) above.


(Approved 5 Jan 2008)

[Link: www.sicb.org…]

Supporting them for boycotting NO over this issue does NOT equate with supporting GW.

132 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:20:40pm

re: #117 Charles

I absolutely hate when people do that. They’re stealing my content by putting it in a frame on their site. Be right back after I put a stop to this.

Not technical at all here, but curious. How can you “put a stop” to someone cutting and pasting (if thats the right term) what is now out here on the interwebby!?!?!
Kilgore found it on THAT site, but whose to say it’s not on dozens (or more) others?

133 redc1c4  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:20:50pm

good for them….. Jindal is an idiot.

134 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:21:08pm

re: #127 Guanxi88

If so, then it can be definitively categorized as nirther nonsense.

NIRTH! NIRTH! NIRTH!

135 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:22:00pm

re: #123 ziggyelman

I see the SICB thinks Global warming talk is being suppressed as well….

Resolution on Evolution and Climate Change

Recognizing that science is under attack in the U.S. as evidenced by the wide-spread disregard for the scientific process and the suppression and distortion of scientific data across a broad spectrum of areas in which we, as biologists, have special expertise, be it resolved that the SICB take a public stand in support of scientific truth, especially:

1. in support of the teaching of evolution as a scientific fact, and under the name of “evolution;”
2. in support of efforts to publicize broadly the impacts of the suppression of scientific evidence on societal concerns such as global climate change, environmental conservation and stem-cell research; and
3. to authorize the SICB Executive Committee to issue press releases and editorials, initiate and publish statements, and sign collective statements consistent with (1) and (2) above.

(Approved 5 Jan 2008)

[Link: www.sicb.org…]

The SICB seems to the politicizing science as much as the Creationists are.

As for their second point, I assume they mean embryonic stem cell research. Why aren’t they being specific? I don’t know of ANYONE who object to adult stem cell research.

136 reine.de.tout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:22:00pm

re: #69 Sharmuta

That’s a campaign killer.

And places serious, serious doubts on his judgment.

137 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:22:05pm

re: #118 Afrocity

Yes, Darlin’. I think you have a handle on conservative values.

138 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:22:15pm

re: #134 MandyManners

NIRTH! NIRTH! NIRTH!

Ya gotta love a good whacky conspiracy story, no matter where it comes from, what it purports to explain, or who’s peddling it. They’re fun.

139 HoosierHoops  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:22:25pm

re: #130 reine.de.tout

pp 3 - 153 are recipe pages. Some pages have 2, sometimes one recipe took 2 pages. But there are probably right about 150 recipes.

pp 157 - 172 contain the ROFLMAO section, includes selected quotes on various topics like, what goes on at a lizard meeting, Obama-Pelosi-and the Dems, sometimes we have transatlantic spelling wars, someone’s ready for the boob thread, the LGF guide to personal hygiene, general posting etiquette, A Buzzsawmonkey Moment, conspiracy theories, How a Lady Fills her Gas Tank by Mandy Manners, Very Punny Stuff, and a couple of others.

There are also some blank pages so you can write or print & paste things you want to keep.

Awesome Reine you rock!

140 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:22:38pm

Outta’ smokes. bbl

141 Catttt  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:22:41pm

In honor of the government of Louisiana, I am linking the initial biology class scene from Twilight (best version I could find - no official version yet), where Edward meets his new lab partner.

Yes, I will use any excuse to link to a Twilight vid.

If you don’t know the story, he reacts the way he does because she smells good enough to eat - as in consume - literally.

142 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:23:10pm

re: #140 MandyManners

Outta’ smokes. bbl

Grab a pack for me, would ya? I’ll pay you back next week.

143 reine.de.tout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:23:23pm

re: #139 HoosierHoops

Plus everyone who helped, named earlier.

144 ziggyelman  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:23:50pm

re: #131 MandyManners

Supporting them for boycotting NO over this issue does NOT equate with supporting GW.

Then I guess I can still vote for Jindal , even though I don’t agree with this policy? Just like I would have voted for Rudy even though he was pro choice….
It will be interesting to see what happens here in 2011-12 if/when Jindal and or Palin get the nod for Republican candidate…will many vote against them on one issue(I assume she is a Creationist as well) and assure the nation of 8 years of socialism/communism….

145 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:23:57pm

re: #110 Killgore Trout

I just checked the referrers list to see where the creationists are coming from. LGF is getting some hits to evolution threads from here. What the hell is that?

If you go to that link now, LGF will bust out of their frame.

146 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:23:59pm

re: #116 MandyManners

Yes- and with all due respect Luigi may want to start reconsidering some of the sites he’s getting “news” from.

147 Afrocity  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:24:08pm

re: #137 Sharmuta

(afrocity looks happily at new merit badge)

148 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:24:21pm

re: #132 sattv4u2

Not technical at all here, but curious. How can you “put a stop” to someone cutting and pasting (if thats the right term) what is now out here on the interwebby!?!?!
Kilgore found it on THAT site, but whose to say it’s not on dozens (or more) others?

That’s not a cut and paste. The build a small web page with a “frame” and inside the frame they put a include link to LGF. So, you go to their page, it loads their stuff and goes and gets pages from here.

149 Catttt  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:24:54pm

re: #140 MandyManners

Outta’ smokes. bbl

I know that feeling.

150 Luigi  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:25:01pm

I’ve been a little busy lately and haven’t kept up on blogging news. I heard the thing on Rush.

151 redc1c4  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:25:29pm

re: #132 sattv4u2

Not technical at all here, but curious. How can you “put a stop” to someone cutting and pasting (if thats the right term) what is now out here on the interwebby!?!?!
Kilgore found it on THAT site, but whose to say it’s not on dozens (or more) others?

you can change the content of the page they’ve linked to, so that something else shows up……. say large text that screams

“Quit Stealing My Content You Bastards!”

152 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:26:06pm

re: #130 reine.de.tout

Cool!

153 Perplexed  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:26:17pm

re: #145 Charles

Still works with IceWeasel.

154 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:26:30pm

re: #148 Walter L. Newton

That’s not a cut and paste. The build a small web page with a “frame” and inside the frame they put a include link to LGF. So, you go to their page, it loads their stuff and goes and gets pages from here.

Another name for what they’re doing is “click-jacking,” because it lets them claim part of my traffic to boost their advertising revenue.

155 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:27:07pm

re: #144 ziggyelman

That’s been bugging me since Reagan. We (conservatives/ republicans/ right of centrists) seem to be looking for someone we that agrees with us 100%. If not, “we” trash them. Thats what brought us Clinton. Thats what brought us Obama IMHO.

I would rather have someone in office I agree with 60% than someone I agree with less than 20%. Of COURSE I would like iot iof that person and I agreed more, but too many time I see one issue as the deal breaker

156 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:27:09pm

re: #145 Charles

Cool, not as much fun as a goatse redirect but it gets the job done.

157 guitarguy  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:27:20pm

God help us if there’s a Jindal/Huckabee GOP ticket in the future….

158 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:27:26pm

re: #150 Luigi

Then someone should write Mr Limbaugh and tell him to reconsider his news sources as well. We really, really do not need to start behaving like nutters.

159 callahan23  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:27:26pm

re: #62 reine.de.tout

Thanks to all of you.

I just ordered one LGF cookbook. It is going to be shipped all the way to Germany. Delivery costs are only slightly less than the purchase.
I’m sure it’s all worth it! I’m really looking forward holding it in my hands.

160 zombie  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:27:58pm

Speaking of “crappy” local governements…

New at zomblog:

Berkeley taxpayers fund sculpture of dogs sh*tting, f*cking, and b*tt-sniffing

161 redc1c4  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:28:45pm

re: #148 Walter L. Newton

That’s not a cut and paste. The build a small web page with a “frame” and inside the frame they put a include link to LGF. So, you go to their page, it loads their stuff and goes and gets pages from here.

not anymore it don’t……

Charles has mad 5ki11z!

162 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:28:45pm

OT

Remember our discussing real, sugar-sweetened Coke? My dozen bottles arrived yesterday, and yes, it was obscenely expensive (shipping was more than the Coke), but oh, what a treat!

163 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:28:53pm

re: #148 Walter L. Newton

re: #151 redc1c4

re: #154 Charles

Another name for what they’re doing is “click-jacking,” because it lets them claim part of my traffic to boost their advertising revenue.


Thanks. I think I understand it better now (well,, seeing I didn’t understand it at ALL before ,, COURSE I do ! )

164 MrPaulRevere  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:29:32pm

re: #122 Thanos

Some folks in the comments at S&L and Portfolio make the point while Kanjorski may have gotten some facts correct, he leaps to illogical conclusions. I agree.

165 redc1c4  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:29:38pm

re: #157 guitarguy

God help us if there’s a Jindal/Huckabee GOP ticket in the future….

it won’t get any votes at our house…….

166 Afrocity  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:30:23pm

re: #155 sattv4u2

I agree ziggy, I cannot be around liberals anymore because they are very rigid IMHO-all republicans are evil, everything is Bushes fault. I was not 100%with McCain but he was the better man for the job and a helluva lot better than Obama.

167 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:30:37pm

re: #162 goddessoftheclassroom

OT

Remember our discussing real, sugar-sweetened Coke? My dozen bottles arrived yesterday, and yes, it was obscenely expensive (shipping was more than the Coke), but oh, what a treat!

Down here in Texas, you can get real sugar-coke at just about every convenience store or grocery. Seems the Tex-Mex (and other, more recent arrivals) don’t like the corn-syrup version. I’ve had the real thing, and lemme tell ya’, it’s a little bottle of heaven.

168 ziggyelman  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:30:38pm

re: #155 sattv4u2

That’s been bugging me since Reagan. We (conservatives/ republicans/ right of centrists) seem to be looking for someone we that agrees with us 100%. If not, “we” trash them. Thats what brought us Clinton. Thats what brought us Obama IMHO.

I would rather have someone in office I agree with 60% than someone I agree with less than 20%. Of COURSE I would like iot iof that person and I agreed more, but too many time I see one issue as the deal breaker

Exactly! I heard more people that claimed they weren’t going to vote for Rudy because he was too liberal, Romney because he was a Mormon, McCain because he wasn’t conservative enough….now I see what looks like a growing rift between the Religious and the secular within the Republican/conservative of our nation. How can anything good come out of that?

169 LGoPs  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:30:39pm

re: #160 zombie

Speaking of “crappy” local governements…

New at zomblog:

Berkeley taxpayers fund sculpture of dogs sh*tting, f*cking, and b*tt-sniffing

Personally I think the artist was just doing an artisitc rendition of the Berkeley City Council and it’s daily machinations……
In that light, it’s not bad.
/

170 HoosierHoops  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:30:50pm

re: #162 goddessoftheclassroom

OT

Remember our discussing real, sugar-sweetened Coke? My dozen bottles arrived yesterday, and yes, it was obscenely expensive (shipping was more than the Coke), but oh, what a treat!

Oh my…Good afternoon Goddess..
I hate sugar..but you knew that…hahaha

171 reine.de.tout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:30:53pm

re: #159 callahan23

Thanks to all of you.

I just ordered one LGF cookbook. It is going to be shipped all the way to Germany. Delivery costs are only slightly less than the purchase.
I’m sure it’s all worth it! I’m really looking forward holding it in my hands.

{callahan23}
I think you will enjoy it.
Please be sure to read about where the “profits” are going; you won’t be sorry you ordered!

172 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:31:19pm

re: #160 zombie

I can get past the subject matter but the execution sucks. Poorly made blobs with little display of skill or craftsmanship. It’s sad that art has become the realm of untrained hacks with trust funds.

173 Afrocity  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:31:30pm

re: #157 guitarguy

God help us if there’s a Jindal/Huckabee GOP ticket in the future….

I wouldn’t vote. Just like I didn’t in 2004.

174 Catttt  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:31:37pm

re: #145 Charles

If you go to that link now, LGF will bust out of their frame.

Is busting out of one’s frame a bad thing? Color me ignorant.

175 clgood  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:31:48pm

re: #141 Catttt

Aha. That explains one of the gags here. If you haven’t seen the whole series yet it’s pretty good. I think this is Nevada’s best episode yet.

176 reine.de.tout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:31:54pm

re: #162 goddessoftheclassroom

OT

Remember our discussing real, sugar-sweetened Coke? My dozen bottles arrived yesterday, and yes, it was obscenely expensive (shipping was more than the Coke), but oh, what a treat!

I’ve been looking for those!
Where did you order?

177 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:31:57pm

re: #154 Charles

Another name for what they’re doing is “click-jacking,” because it lets them claim part of my traffic to boost their advertising revenue.

Got it. While I possibly have you attention. I use Safari, and randomly (at least I don’t see the pattern yet), I find that I am getting logged out, even it the page shows me logged in.

The last time it did it was I clicked “quote,” was put into the text box and then I tried to clip and paste something from another tab, and it kicked me out to the front page, and I was logged off.

Do you use the “clipboard” buffer a lot?

178 zombie  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:32:01pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

I can get past the subject matter but the execution sucks. Poorly made blobs with little display of skill or craftsmanship. It’s sad that art has become the realm of untrained hacks with trust funds.

I know — the “sh*tting” sculpture in particular is totally amateurish.

179 Afrocity  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:32:08pm

re: #167 Guanxi88

They have real Dr. pepper in Dublin, TX

180 horse  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:32:12pm

re: #105 MandyManners

Just wait until CAIR gets in on the action!

Exactly! You start creating giant loop holes in separation, then every community will have their local flavor of what they consider to be “science”; they could end up with a charter school for every belief.

Those who believe in their own version of creation and life are free to create their own schools and have an entire class on their religious beliefs, including creationism. Alternatively they can just cover the subject in Sunday school. No need for their nose in the scientific tent.

181 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:32:17pm

And naturally, ‘Joe Bananas’ followed up the insulting comment that got his account blocked, with an even more insulting email.

And now he’s blocked at the IP level.

182 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:33:08pm

re: #179 Afrocity

They have real Dr. pepper in Dublin, TX

Yes, and there’s a little convenience store not two blocks from here that proudly sells it. Gotta love Texas.

183 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:33:15pm

re: #177 Walter L. Newton

Got it. While I possibly have you attention. I use Safari, and randomly (at least I don’t see the pattern yet), I find that I am getting logged out, even it the page shows me logged in.

The last time it did it was I clicked “quote,” was put into the text box and then I tried to clip and paste something from another tab, and it kicked me out to the front page, and I was logged off.

Do you use the “clipboard” buffer a lot?

If you’re switching back and forth between tabs open to several LGF pages, this can happen because your session data gets out of sync. Not much I can do about it.

184 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:33:25pm

re: #176 reine.de.tout

Money is really tight for me now but I’ll try to place an order in the next few weeks.

185 solomonpanting  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:33:34pm

re: #157 guitarguy

God help us if there’s a Jindal/Huckabee GOP ticket in the future….

Then you’d have The Creation of a Frank’nBenStein Party.

186 Afrocity  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:33:43pm

Oh, Hello Charles. Thanks for letting me come here. I am enjoying making friends.

187 clgood  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:33:44pm

re: #177 Walter L. Newton

I just had that happen a few minutes ago. Safari also. Couldn’t figure out why the “reply” link had vanished, then noticed I was logged out again.

188 J'accuzzi  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:34:25pm

I find the two sides of this most interesting and symmetrical. I would suggest many of those who say they reject evolution do so because they find some of the “in your face”, axe-grinding, advocates much more repugnant than the science itself. Then there is the mirror image, those who demand that free speech must prevail and protect. Oh, with a few minor exceptions who need to be silenced, like anti-abortion campaigners and some bullshitting, uncouth, neo-Nazis.

189 clgood  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:34:26pm

re: #183 Charles

Oh. Yes, I’m a big tab user. Too bad that’s not fixable.

190 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:35:14pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

Money is really tight for me now but I’ll try to place an order in the next few weeks.

Same here, gave something to MEMRI this week, but there is no doubt I will get one very soon.

191 Dammits Dad  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:36:01pm

re: #33 MandyManners

Don’t these people see that SCIENCE makes it possible to track a hurricane?


Track a hurricane, fine go for it. Find a cure for cancer, I could use that. Just don’t insist on telling me or my grandkids that our ancestors crawled out of the muck as one celled critters. I believe in a combination of ID and evolution. To totally ban Intelligent Design from education is just wrong in my book. Flame me if you wish.

192 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:36:08pm

re: #188 J’accuzzi

I would suggest many of those who say they reject evolution do so because they find some of the “in your face”, axe-grinding, advocates much more repugnant than the science itself.

No- they find the science repugnant. They didn’t come from no monkey!

193 ziggyelman  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:36:20pm

re: #173 Afrocity

I wouldn’t vote. Just like I didn’t in 2004.

Let’s see if you still feel this way in 2012!

194 callahan23  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:37:03pm

re: #171 reine.de.tout

Profits are going to:

1/2 will go to Charles’ tip jar, and the other 1/2 will go to Soldier’s Angels


How sweet is that?!?

195 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:37:37pm

re: #191 Dammits Dad

Track a hurricane, fine go for it. Find a cure for cancer, I could use that. Just don’t insist on telling me or my grandkids that our ancestors crawled out of the muck as one celled critters. I believe in a combination of ID and evolution. To totally ban Intelligent Design from education is just wrong in my book. Flame me if you wish.

Why, ID is NOT science. Why would you want it taught in science class? Do you want some Hindu version of creation taught? How about some eraly American Indian creation stories?

196 Bob Dillon  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:38:21pm

re: #160 zombie

Speaking of “crappy” local governements…

New at zomblog:

Berkeley taxpayers fund sculpture of dogs sh*tting, f*cking, and b*tt-sniffing

Ah … Moonbat Bridge. How many times I have driven under it whilst the protesters stood on top with their banners - wishing I had a paintball rifle and the sunroof open.

197 Afrocity  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:38:26pm

re: #193 ziggyelman

If the GOP nominee is Jindal I will not vote, because I am not voting for Obama either. I would be open to Palin/Steele, or someone else. I believe in separation of church and state. Just the way I am.

198 Luigi  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:38:32pm

By the way, it is very smart of Charles to steer clear of anything that smells like fascism. The work LGF does should be clearly seen as the mainstream discourse of general American society, and certainly of the press. LGF should not be a marginal voice. It should be regarded as mainstream American. Indeed, The mainstream media should sound like LGF.

199 Shug  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:38:40pm

re: #181 Charles

was he a sock puppet?

200 Catttt  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:38:47pm

re: #175 clgood

Aha. That explains one of the gags here. If you haven’t seen the whole series yet it’s pretty good. I think this is Nevada’s best episode yet.

Heh. Your skin’s so cold - and sparkly……

201 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:39:01pm

re: #157 guitarguy

God help us if there’s a Jindal/Huckabee GOP ticket in the future….

No way . it’s not going to happen

202 ichef  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:39:24pm

So Mardi Gras beads for scientists? … guess they’ll have to stick with pocket protectors …..

203 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:39:54pm

re: #193 ziggyelman

Here’s a clue- many of us won’t vote for Jindal should he be the nominee. Deal with it now, and find a better alternative, because just like the pro-science people in Louisiana told the Governor and Legislature there would be repercussions that were ignored yet came to pass, there will be repercussions to nominating this man.

204 clgood  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:41:00pm

re: #191 Dammits Dad

Two things:

The theory of evolution does not speak to the origin of life. It only explains how different species came to be, and is another word for “common ancestry”

Evolution is science. ID is religion. ID is, quite specifically, not science. There is no rational way to mix the two.

That does not mean, as Charles is careful to point out, that one cannot believe in god and still accept evolution. One can even believe that evolution is how god works. But in light of all the evidence out there it is just not possible to say evolution didn’t happen (it’s still happening, of course). And it’s not possible to say that the world was created in 7 24-hour periods.

205 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:41:04pm

re: #160 zombie

Speaking of “crappy” local governements…

New at zomblog:

Berkeley taxpayers fund sculpture of dogs sh*tting, f*cking, and b*tt-sniffing

Can it serve the same function as a fireplug? (For dogs)

206 yesandno  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:41:22pm

What the h*ll has happened to America?

History has become what we want it to be. Religion has become defined by not the faithful but the frightful fringe. What happened to the Classics that taught people to think in a logical manner and to separate the system of governement from a system of belief alone?

We have spent the past 8 years dealing with the results of theocratic mindlessness that is perpetuated by terror and fear. Why do we now think the answer is another theocratic mindlessness? I am not speaking of the faithful who live their lives by faith, set an example as it were, but are strong enough in their faith to allow you your faith…or none at all. I am speaking of the fanatics of all religions who feel that they must impose thier set of beliefs on all of us. They have a say in how government should work, but no more then that…their say, not mine.

Everything has consequences.

207 HoosierHoops  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:41:23pm

I love science threads! so ok one day after the Russian and US satts crash there is software graphics showing the crash..
[Link: www.universetoday.com…]

208 reine.de.tout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:41:53pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

Money is really tight for me now but I’ll try to place an order in the next few weeks.

No rush, it will be there.
Any support would be appreciated, of course.
“profits” going to good causes.

209 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:42:06pm

re: #205 Kosh’s Shadow

Can it serve the same function as a fireplug? (For dogs)

Why didn’t you put a NSFW tag on that. Maisey the Parrot just fell off her perch when she saw that.

210 goddessoftheclassroom  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:42:28pm

re: #176 reine.de.tout

I’ve been looking for those!
Where did you order?

Here’s the site.

211 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:42:44pm

re: #191 Dammits Dad

You are confusing ID with Theistic evolution. If you accept God and evolution both, theistic evolution is your horse. ID, on the other hand, rejects evolution.

212 Render  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:44:04pm

re: #110 Killgore Trout

Looks like a redirect back to here now.

COORDINATION,
R

213 Randall Gross  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:44:19pm

Btw: Here’s more on Kanjorski where this bullshit is emanating from, think “The Pennsylvania Kucinich” and you will have this guy pegged:

214 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:44:41pm

re: #160 zombie

Speaking of “crappy” local governments…

New at zomblog:

Berkeley taxpayers fund sculpture of dogs sh*tting, f*cking, and b*tt-sniffing

Man that is not art, and I know art,my sister is a professor of art in Washington and I am no slouch with my architectural plans, I get so pissed off when people say this shit is art.

215 gopninja  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:45:39pm

thank god im moving out of here, i hate this freaking state.

216 Annar  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:46:45pm

One would hope that other scientific organizations follow suit.

217 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:47:13pm

re: #207 HoosierHoops

I love science threads! so ok one day after the Russian and US satts crash there is software graphics showing the crash..
[Link: www.universetoday.com…]

This really sucks, with shit like this happening we could be sealing ourselves into doom with no way out!

218 Afrocity  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:48:04pm

re: #206 yesandno

Yes but I think that politics can be like religion which is what drove me from the left. How do i articulate this? One liberal member of my family seems to go against anything that is traditional just to be difficult. Christmas was a wreck because she insisted on celebrating festivus, when she walks her dog she crosses the streets if Muslims are walking in her path. She says disparaging remarks if we are not being green enough. If I want to have a child she goes on about how there are too many children. She is never happy with anything. I thought she would cheer up when Obama was in office-you know hopenchange. She is just as bitchy as ever. I can’t bring up anything or anyone conservative around her. oddly enough I do lots of charity work and she will never accompany me. The same goes for her friends.

219 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:48:07pm

re: #217 BBev

This really sucks, with shit like this happening we could be sealing ourselves into doom with no way out!

Which? The whole ID thing, or the cloud of space junk? It works either way.

220 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:48:13pm

That Jabberwonk link is generating a good amount of traffic.

221 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:48:49pm

re: #209 Walter L. Newton

Why didn’t you put a NSFW tag on that. Maisey the Parrot just fell off her perch when she saw that.

What?
Zombie posted the original link, though.

222 Randall Gross  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:49:38pm

Actually, Kanjorski is more like what a mating between Blago and Kucinich would produce…

223 DistantThunder  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:50:01pm

A 20 year old girl, a friend of my son’s, described this encounter with her science teacher at the local college.

Teacher: Who here believes in evolution?

most students raised their hands, including the girl

Teacher: Who here believes in God?

a few student raised their hands, again including the girl

Teacher: Who here believes in both?

The girl is the only one to raise her hand.

Teacher: I see that you are the only one to believe in both God and evolutions and since they are mutually exclusive why don’t you explain how you can justify your position. I would contend that you can not.

Our friend was stunned, and embarrassed, and felt all eyes upon her. She explained that she had her private beleif system about God, and didn’t see any reason why she couldn’t accept the facts related to evolution.

I don’t remember what she said his response was, but you can see that he had an agenda to challenge and embarrass a student who had privately held religious beliefs.


She went on to say that ironically, in her speech class, with several of the same students, they were given an assignment to discuss their most precious possession. She said that most people brought in religious items that had significance to them, and that they considered sacred.

224 jaunte  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:50:09pm

re: #160 zombie

Speaking of “crappy” local governements…

New at zomblog:

Berkeley taxpayers fund sculpture of dogs sh*tting, f*cking, and b*tt-sniffing

Aside from the subject matter, that is a pretty crappy example of sculpture.

225 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:50:32pm

Happy Valentine’s Day….
Penis Jousting and 7 Other Great Animal Mating Rituals

It’s not pr0n, it’s science!

226 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:50:37pm

re: #217 BBev

This really sucks, with shit like this happening we could be sealing ourselves into doom with no way out!

Yeah, but most of the debris does seem to be on Russia’s side of the world?

227 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:51:05pm

re: #218 Afrocity

I like to think of it like this: Being a leftist means being a hypocrite. But C.S. Lewis said it in a much more eloquent way:

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

~C.S. Lewis

228 Afrocity  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:51:18pm

re: #215 gopninja

Where do you live? How does one get negative Karma?

229 Dianna  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:51:19pm

re: #127 Guanxi88

If so, then it can be definitively categorized as nirther nonsense.

And unfortunate fact.

230 zombie  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:51:42pm

re: #209 Walter L. Newton

Why didn’t you put a NSFW tag on that. Maisey the Parrot just fell off her perch when she saw that.

re: #221 Kosh’s Shadow

What?
Zombie posted the original link, though.

I thought the title of the post (“Berkeley taxpayers fund sculpture of dogs sh*tting, f*cking, and b*tt-sniffing”) was a clear enough NSFW warning.

zombietime and censorship do not get along.

231 Shug  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:52:55pm

re: #223 DistantThunder

A 20 year old girl, a friend of my son’s, described this encounter with her science teacher at the local college.

Teacher: Who here believes in evolution?

most students raised their hands, including the girl

Teacher: Who here believes in God?

a few student raised their hands, again including the girl

Teacher: Who here believes in both?

The girl is the only one to raise her hand.

Teacher: I see that you are the only one to believe in both God and evolutions and since they are mutually exclusive why don’t you explain how you can justify your position. I would contend that you can not.


It’s too bad the Pope wasn’t in the room with her to raise his hand twice

232 Afrocity  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:53:31pm

re: #227 Sharmuta

“…omnipotent moral busybodies.”

I love it Sharmuta, you rock!

233 reine.de.tout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:53:58pm

From Barbara Forrest’s letter:

The legislature and Gov. Jindal — and no one else — bear the responsibility. The scientific organizations, not to mention all the other organizations that have come to New Orleans, as well as to other Louisiana convention centers, to do business, deserve credit for wanting to help the city and our state. Indeed, they already have helped the city and the state as a whole many times in the past by coming here for their meetings

In addition to this particular loss of tourist dollars, there is also the loss to Louisiana from businesses that consider locating here, but end up locating in another state. Many of these businesses specifically say that one of the deciding factors is that the educational system here is not up to par, and they do not want to subject their employees’ families to having to pay for private schools. Doesn’t it seem like that would be sort of like a clue to our legislature and governor?

In most of Louisiana, anyone who can afford the tuition sends their kids to private or parochial schools.

234 zombie  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:54:02pm

re: #223 DistantThunder

Teacher: I see that you are the only one to believe in both God and evolutions and since they are mutually exclusive why don’t you explain how you can justify your position. I would contend that you can not.

Either that is an urban legend, or the molst idiotic teacher I’ve heard of in quite a while.

My money is on “urban legend.” I can’t imagine even a bad teacher doing that.

235 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:54:08pm

re: #232 Afrocity

Next time I’m in Chicago, we’re gonna party, Girl!

236 Randall Gross  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:54:08pm

re: #223 DistantThunder

Can you supply the name of the school and the teacher so we can do something about it?

237 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:54:09pm

re: #219 Guanxi88

Which? The whole ID thing, or the cloud of space junk? It works either way.

With a cloud of space junk,if the globe is covered with this shit how can we ever get off the ground and discover new worlds to land on and inhabit, If we as humans are to survive we must go out and settle new worlds.

238 DistantThunder  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:54:48pm

re: #231 Shug

Amen.

239 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:54:54pm

re: #226 Nevergiveup

Yeah, but most of the debris does seem to be on Russia’s side of the world?

Ya nice, still not good

240 vxbush  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:55:35pm

reine.de.tout

I ordered one! I can’t wait!

241 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:55:42pm

re: #230 zombie

I thought the title of the post (“Berkeley taxpayers fund sculpture of dogs sh*tting, f*cking, and b*tt-sniffing”) was a clear enough NSFW warning.

zombietime and censorship do not get along.

And after seeing the pictures, I’m surprised Maisely could see them well enough; those sculptures make the chocolate Easter bunnies look like Michelangelo. I’ve seen pre-schoolers do better with Play-Do.

242 DistantThunder  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:55:51pm

re: #234 zombie

Either that is an urban legend, or the molst idiotic teacher I’ve heard of in quite a while.

My money is on “urban legend.” I can’t imagine even a bad teacher doing that.

This girl is my daughter’s age, and I heard it from her own lips at church about 3 Sunday’s ago.

243 DistantThunder  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:56:40pm

re: #236 Thanos

Can you supply the name of the school and the teacher so we can do something about it?

I don’t know the teacher, but it was Burlington Community College here in New Jersey.

244 Dianna  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:56:41pm

re: #228 Afrocity

Where do you live? How does one get negative Karma?

One gets negative karma here by posting remarks people object to.

Look for “annefrance” - it’s one of the most spectacular cases I ever saw.

245 Afrocity  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:57:09pm

re: #223 DistantThunder

I mostly attended catholic school until 9th grade. I think in biology we talked about Darwinism and evolution. I asked my mother about it and she said God made us do you really think that man evolved from a fish? I was 14 but I recall thinking that both evolution and creationist, big bang theory all had good points.

I am open to anything as long as I am given multiple points of view.

246 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:57:22pm

re: #232 Afrocity

Also- if you enjoy that quote, you can click the heart icon and stick it in your favorites so you can pull it up for future use. I’ve quoted that a few times on LGF, but it finally dawned on me to favorite it, because it’s quicker to find it in my favorites than it is to google for it.

247 Dianna  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:57:53pm

I need to clean the kitchen and vacuum. I don’t think I can do both.

Kitchen clean up seems more urgent, somehow.

Take care!

248 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:57:55pm

re: #244 Dianna

Actually- “stretch” is at -2044.

249 LGoPs  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:58:54pm

re: #197 Afrocity

If the GOP nominee is Jindal I will not vote, because I am not voting for Obama either. I would be open to Palin/Steele, or someone else. I believe in separation of church and state. Just the way I am.

I respectfully disagree and ask that over the next four years you reconsider the idea of not voting in the event of a Jindal nomination. I find creationism’s views wrong as well, but there are many other issues, of equal or greater peril that face us. And at some point you have to make a decision as to what the higher priority is. When you’re in a fight with a grizzly bear, you need to focus on the one that’s in your face. The fact that there are other grizzlies over the next hill are of concern of course, but if you don’t kill the one that’s on top of you, dealing with the others becomes an academic exercise at best…you won’t be around to fight them because your face has been ripped off.
By the way - I’m not in any way endorsing Jindal………just offering my humble opinion on how best not to dilute our numbers in an already hostile environment.

250 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:59:07pm

US envoy meets Afghan president amid tensions

[Link: www.jpost.com…]

Karzai says he still has not spoken with Obama almost a month after his inauguration, a sign the Afghan president no longer enjoys the favored status he had under former US President George W. Bush.

I get the feeling Karzai ain’t feeling the love yet?

251 brookly red  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:59:15pm

re: #227 Sharmuta

…It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies…
~C.S. Lewis

Here in NY we have omnipotent moral busybody robber barons…

I wounder if Lewis could have seen that coming?

252 Dianna  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:59:22pm

Oh, btw: Valentine’s dinner will be:

coq au vin, wild rice, salad, and some wonderful strawberry thing for desert.

All I have to do is clean the house.

253 rawmuse  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:59:23pm

Ot - The Low Self Esteem Group will be meeting next Wed. night at 8pm. Please use the back door.

254 Dianna  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:59:42pm

re: #248 Sharmuta

Actually- “stretch” is at -2044.

Wow! I’ll have to look that one up!

255 Randall Gross  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 2:59:46pm

re: #243 DistantThunder

Why don’t you find out? That’s one F’ed up moonbat if they are doing that and they need to be outted. Or, it could be one of those stories / urban myths that make the rounds, hearsay or distortions that you run into. Whenever I hear of these I try to track back to source, because that’s wrong… but so far it’s a blank wall, and you know what? I”ve heard this one before from my sister, only the college is in Washington state…

256 [deleted]  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:00:31pm
257 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:00:35pm

re: #237 BBev

With a cloud of space junk,if the globe is covered with this shit how can we ever get off the ground and discover new worlds to land on and inhabit, If we as humans are to survive we must go out and settle new worlds.

Yes, as Burroughs said, “We’re all here to go. Earth is a spacestation, and we are here to go.”

258 zombie  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:00:40pm

re: #242 DistantThunder

This girl is my daughter’s age, and I heard it from her own lips at church about 3 Sunday’s ago.

Hmmmmm.

Well, if true, I give that teacher an “F.”

259 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:00:51pm

re: #225 Killgore Trout

Happy Valentine’s Day….
Penis Jousting and 7 Other Great Animal Mating Rituals

It’s not pr0n, it’s science!

Bighorn sheep: Like the Black Grouse, they don’t do anything radical — they just do it well. Males fight to impress the ladies, running into each other head-first at high speed, their horns making a sound that reverberates for miles.

I’ve seen this in a few bars.

260 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:01:14pm

re: #254 Dianna

stretch

261 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:01:43pm

re: #259 MandyManners

Bighorn sheep: Like the Black Grouse, they don’t do anything radical — they just do it well. Males fight to impress the ladies, running into each other head-first at high speed, their horns making a sound that reverberates for miles.

I’ve seen this in a few bars.

What do you think football is really about?

262 HoosierHoops  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:01:44pm

re: #244 Dianna

One gets negative karma here by posting remarks people object to.

Look for “annefrance” - it’s one of the most spectacular cases I ever saw.

annefrance was a thing of beauty..When Charles outed her I rolled on the floor laughing..Ladies and Gentlemen.. I give you the greatest fraud ever..
annefrance..Hall of Famer

263 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:02:33pm

re: #250 Nevergiveup

US envoy meets Afghan president amid tensions

[Link: www.jpost.com…]

Karzai says he still has not spoken with Obama almost a month after his inauguration, a sign the Afghan president no longer enjoys the favored status he had under former US President George W. Bush.

I get the feeling Karzai ain’t feeling the love yet?

Maybe he hasn’t gotten his unicorn yet.
/do I need to?

264 Afrocity  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:02:36pm

re: #244 Dianna

Dianna, I will say it again. I am loving your bio “mistaken for…”

I was shopping yesterday and I have a tote bag that says “SHOP LOCAL”.

I was in a college town it is was funny because so many OBOTS were coming up to me asking where I got the bag and saying “happy stimulus day”
I guess I look lefty.

265 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:02:39pm

re: #256 ploome hineni

you think that crash was intentional?

No

266 Dianna  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:02:46pm

re: #262 HoosierHoops

annefrance was a thing of beauty..When Charles outed her I rolled on the floor laughing..Ladies and Gentlemen.. I give you the greatest fraud ever..
annefrance..Hall of Famer

Outed? As what?

The remark was remarkably offensive.

267 Randall Gross  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:03:12pm

DT: Note that I’m not trying to imply that you are lying, or that your friend is, but I’ve seen vignettes like this but never seen one factually confirmed.

268 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:03:18pm

re: #261 Nevergiveup

What do you think football is really about?

Money.

269 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:03:22pm

For Afrocity’s information- “annefrance” posted the highest dingdowned comment in LGF history at over -400 something.

270 Dianna  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:03:46pm

re: #264 Afrocity

Dianna, I will say it again. I am loving your bio “mistaken for…”

I was shopping yesterday and I have a tote bag that says “SHOP LOCAL”.

I was in a college town it is was funny because so many OBOTS were coming up to me asking where I got the bag and saying “happy stimulus day”
I guess I look lefty.

Ask Turn, sometime.

Or Iron Fist, or a number of others who’ve met me in person.

I really do look like a hippie!

271 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:04:09pm

re: #268 MandyManners

Money.

Ever heat the Rodney Dangerfield joke about what money buys?

272 MandyManners  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:04:31pm

re: #271 Nevergiveup

Ever heat the Rodney Dangerfield joke about what money buys?

No.

273 Afrocity  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:05:07pm

re: #249 LGoPs

Good point. Fair enough…

274 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:05:15pm

re: #257 Guanxi88

Yes, as Burroughs said, “We’re all here to go. Earth is a spacestation, and we are here to go.”

Maybe he is right but why can we not go forth and prosper!

275 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:05:36pm

re: #272 MandyManners

No.

Well the booze and the girls

276 jaunte  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:05:59pm

re: #253 rawmuse

Ot - The Low Self Esteem Group will be meeting next Wed. night at 8pm. Please use the back door.

You guys get to meet inside?

277 HoosierHoops  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:06:29pm

re: #266 Dianna

Outed? As what?

The remark was remarkably offensive.

oh you didn’t see those posts about her claiming she was American and Charles goes..yea but you are posting from Canada..Then he busted it down where she was…post by post..pretty great reading

278 Natasha  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:06:43pm

Some conservatives (like Jindal, for instance) have totally lost their minds, it looks like. Their evolution is de-volution. They are moving backwards to the Dark Ages. Oh, the humanity!

279 DistantThunder  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:07:05pm

re: #255 Thanos

Why don’t you find out? That’s one F’ed up moonbat if they are doing that and they need to be outted. Or, it could be one of those stories / urban myths that make the rounds, hearsay or distortions that you run into. Whenever I hear of these I try to track back to source, because that’s wrong… but so far it’s a blank wall, and you know what? I”ve heard this one before from my sister, only the college is in Washington state…

I know the girl and her family well, and she was sharing the story as part of a talk she was giving at church. I have no reason not to believe her because the point she was making was standing up for your beliefs even the face of opposition.

280 Nevergiveup  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:07:06pm

re: #276 jaunte

You guys get to meet inside?

The cops don’t arrest you for loitering when you meet outside?

281 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:07:13pm
282 [deleted]  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:07:24pm
283 Basho  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:07:36pm

re: #191 Dammits Dad

Track a hurricane, fine go for it. Find a cure for cancer, I could use that. Just don’t insist on telling me or my grandkids that our ancestors crawled out of the muck as one celled critters. I believe in a combination of ID and evolution. To totally ban Intelligent Design from education is just wrong in my book. Flame me if you wish.

Yeah… screwing up the teaching of biology will definitely produce the researchers who will “find a cure for cancer”.

/

284 opnion  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:07:36pm

I am guessing that some alert Lizard probably pointed this out, but does it seem a little counter intuitive to boycott New Orleans over Creationism & go to Salt Lake City? Was the Vatican booked?

285 Afrocity  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:08:05pm

re: #270 Dianna

..and I really do look “black” that is all it takes for liberals to think you are one too. The SHOP LOCAL bag put me over the top. I bought it because I do support the mom and pop stores.

286 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:08:15pm

re: #265 BBev

Please let me re-answer that, It could have been, with our global coverage and the connections with the weapons we have, well that’s above my pay grade

287 jaunte  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:08:38pm

re: #280 Nevergiveup

The cops don’t arrest you for loitering when you meet outside?

No they don’t even notice. It’s all part of the low self esteem program.

288 Randall Gross  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:09:08pm

re: #279 DistantThunder

I know the girl and her family well, and she was sharing the story as part of a talk she was giving at church. I have no reason not to believe her because the point she was making was standing up for your beliefs even the face of opposition.

I don’t have reason to disbelieve either, however if it’s really going on something ought to be done.

289 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:09:24pm

re: #274 BBev

Maybe he is right but why can we not go forth and prosper!

It’s an interesting theoretical exercise. If we regard the planet as a space station, we immediately begin to view certain people and activities in a different light. If this is all there is, then we have to protect the place and its inhabitants from those who would do harm.

As a practical matter, though, I don’t know if I’ll live to see permanent human dwelling in space or off-planet. The distances involved are too far, and we just don’t know if we could ever find a suitable place.

290 yesandno  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:09:52pm

re: #218 Afrocity

Yes but I think that politics can be like religion which is what drove me from the left. How do i articulate this? One liberal member of my family seems to go against anything that is traditional just to be difficult. Christmas was a wreck because she insisted on celebrating festivus, when she walks her dog she crosses the streets if Muslims are walking in her path. She says disparaging remarks if we are not being green enough. If I want to have a child she goes on about how there are too many children. She is never happy with anything. I thought she would cheer up when Obama was in office-you know hopenchange. She is just as bitchy as ever. I can’t bring up anything or anyone conservative around her. oddly enough I do lots of charity work and she will never accompany me. The same goes for her friends.

Politics shouldn’t be an idealogy…it should be a process.

You can’t pick your relatives (only your nose!). And some people are not worth the waste of your time…they are just going to disagree no matter what. Sometimes the best thing to do is not refer to your more conservative thoughts. Just ask questions and listen to her answers, then ask more. Sometimes she will lead herself to a new awakening.

Most liberals argue without facts. If you can get her to support her argument with facts, chances are you will have a chance to change her mind one day.

And you don’t want to have her reproduce!

291 Dammits Dad  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:09:55pm

re: #195 Walter L. Newton

Why, ID is NOT science. Why would you want it taught in science class? Do you want some Hindu version of creation taught? How about some eraly American Indian creation stories?

It does not need to be a science class, just don’t ban it from schools. Besides I am and never been a big fan of Mr Darwin. And no I did not directly evolve from a monkey.

292 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:10:19pm

re: #284 opnion

I am guessing that some alert Lizard probably pointed this out, but does it seem a little counter intuitive to boycott New Orleans over Creationism & go to Salt Lake City? Was the Vatican booked?

No- the governor of Utah rejects ID in the classrooms, so it makes perfect sense to me.

293 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:11:11pm

re: #249 LGoPs

I respectfully disagree and ask that over the next four years you reconsider the idea of not voting in the event of a Jindal nomination. I find creationism’s views wrong as well, but there are many other issues, of equal or greater peril that face us. And at some point you have to make a decision as to what the higher priority is. When you’re in a fight with a grizzly bear, you need to focus on the one that’s in your face. The fact that there are other grizzlies over the next hill are of concern of course, but if you don’t kill the one that’s on top of you, dealing with the others becomes an academic exercise at best…you won’t be around to fight them because your face has been ripped off.
By the way - I’m not in any way endorsing Jindal………just offering my humble opinion on how best not to dilute our numbers in an already hostile environment.

Bobby Jindal has so much dirt in his past, he has absolutely no chance of being elected. If the GOP puts him up as the nominee, he will LOSE. Everything the media tried to pin on Sarah Palin, Jindal actually did: he promoted and signed a creationism bill, he took part in an amateur exorcism and claimed it cured a woman of cancer, and possibly worst of all, he hangs out with people on the outer edges of fundamentalist Christianity, and at least one person who has associated with outright neo-Nazis: Bobby Jindal’s Creationism and Alliance with David Barton.

Who is David Barton?

In 1991 Barton addressed the Rocky Mountain Bible Retreat of Pastor Pete Peters’ Scriptures for America, a group that espouses the racist “Christian Identity” theology. Advocates of this bizarre dogma insist that white Anglo-Saxons are the “true” chosen people of the Bible and charge that today’s Jews are usurpers. Aside from being a virulent anti-Semite, Peters has advocated the death penalty for homosexuals. According to the Anti-Defamation League, other speakers at the event included white supremacist leader and 1992 presidential candidate James “Bo” Gritz, a leader of the radical and increasingly violent militia movement, and Malcolm Ross, a Holocaust denier from Canada. In November of that same year, Barton spoke at Kingdom Covenant College in Grants Pass, Oregon, another “Christian Identity” front group with ties to Peters.4

Asked to explain these actions, Barton’s reply amounted to a not very creative “I didn’t know they were Nazis” dodge. In a July 1993 letter, Barton assistant Kit Marshall wrote, “At the time we were contacted by Pete Peters, we had absolutely no idea that he was ‘part of the Nazi movement.’ He contacted us for David to speak for Scriptures for America. The title is quite innocuous. In all the conversations that I personally had with Pete Peters, never once was there a hint that they were part of a Nazi movement. I would also like to point out that simply because David Barton gives a presentation to a group of people does not mean that he endorses all their beliefs.”5 An excuse like that might have washed one time, but it stretches the bounds of credulity to accept that Barton was twice duped by innocuous-sounding extremist organizations.

294 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:11:18pm

re: #291 Dammits Dad

OK- then ID is your horse.

295 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:11:29pm

re: #291 Dammits Dad

And no I did not directly evolve from a monkey.

Who said you did?

Isn’t that a straw monkey argument, anyway?

296 callahan23  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:12:39pm

re: #270 Dianna

Ask Turn, sometime.

Or Iron Fist, or a number of others who’ve met me in person.

I really do look like a hippie!

Isn’t it great to look exactly opposite one’s political position?
It always cracks me up when people loose all facial expressions once I’ve stated my opinion.

297 Afrocity  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:12:46pm

re: #281 Sharmuta

annefrance’s infamous -482 comment

Okay, I was not even on this blog then and that post offended me enough to give her a -200. Especially “who thought it wise to bring a fifth child into the world who has Down’s Syndrome. “

I am pro-choice but I do admire the fact that Sarah Palin stuck to her pro-life beliefs and kept the child. I respect that. Keeping the child is a choice too. Trig is very lucky.

298 DistantThunder  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:13:55pm

re: #284 opnion

I am guessing that some alert Lizard probably pointed this out, but does it seem a little counter intuitive to boycott New Orleans over Creationism & go to Salt Lake City? Was the Vatican booked?

I’m LDS and as far as I can tell after studying at BYU, I didn’t learn creationism in science class, I learned about the theory of evolution. We also had required religion classes, and I think I was required to take 4, and neither science nor the theory of evolution was ever belittled - or even mentioned.

And they must be teaching evolution in the BYU Nematode Evolution Lab

299 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:14:11pm

re: #297 Afrocity

Trig is lucky- he has a loving family.

300 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:15:06pm

re: #289 Guanxi88

It’s an interesting theoretical exercise. If we regard the planet as a space station, we immediately begin to view certain people and activities in a different light. If this is all there is, then we have to protect the place and its inhabitants from those who would do harm.

As a practical matter, though, I don’t know if I’ll live to see permanent human dwelling in space or off-planet. The distances involved are too far, and we just don’t know if we could ever find a suitable place.

The human race and everything will end if we don’t go to the stars.
This is said much better in the Babylon 5 episode “Infection”:

“Is it worth it? Should we just pull back, forget the whole thing as a bad idea and take care of our own problems at home?”
“No. We have to stay here and there’s a simple reason why. Ask ten different scientists about the environment, population control, genetics and you’ll get ten different answers, but there’s one thing every scientist on the planet agrees on. Whether it happens in a hundred years or a thousand years or a million years, eventually our Sun will grow cold and go out. When that happens, it won’t just take us. It’ll take Marilyn Monroe and Lao-Tzu and Einstein and Morobuto and Buddy Holly and Aristophenes .. and all of this .. all of this was for nothing unless we go to the stars.”

— Mary Ann Cramer interviews Cmdr. Sinclair in Babylon 5:”Infection”

301 Dianna  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:15:12pm

re: #285 Afrocity

..and I really do look “black” that is all it takes for liberals to think you are one too. The SHOP LOCAL bag put me over the top. I bought it because I do support the mom and pop stores.

As we should!

Now, I really must work. Take care!

302 Basho  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:15:27pm

re: #291 Dammits Dad

And no I did not directly evolve from a monkey.

Yeah… look down on monkeys and apes. They only test our drugs and vaccines that humans now benefit from. Maybe you should boycott any drug that’s been tested on any monkey or ape since you’re so different from them. Put your money where your mouth is.

303 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:15:31pm

re: #289 Guanxi88

It’s an interesting theoretical exercise. If we regard the planet as a space station, we immediately begin to view certain people and activities in a different light. If this is all there is, then we have to protect the place and its inhabitants from those who would do harm.

As a practical matter, though, I don’t know if I’ll live to see permanent human dwelling in space or off-planet. The distances involved are too far, and we just don’t know if we could ever find a suitable place.

As a child I saw the first satellites in space and then the first moon landing, I am a science geek and I am very disturbed that we have not landed humans on an other planet by now. My fears are that humans will devolve because of war or famine and will never reach the heavens.

304 Randall Gross  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:16:14pm

re: #291 Dammits Dad

It does not need to be a science class, just don’t ban it from schools. Besides I am and never been a big fan of Mr Darwin. And no I did not directly evolve from a monkey.

No, but your parents did evolve from a primate.

305 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:16:27pm

re: #300 Kosh’s Shadow

Jeez! That’s some of the most beautiful stuff I’ve read in a while about the nobility of Man and our destiny.

I may have to watch the series after all/

306 HoosierHoops  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:16:46pm

re: #291 Dammits Dad

It does not need to be a science class, just don’t ban it from schools. Besides I am and never been a big fan of Mr Darwin. And no I did not directly evolve from a monkey.

Bullshit..yes it needs to be in a science class, math or English..What we get is your version of myth this year in science class..but we aren’t really calling it a science class..we’ll call it something else..
give me a friggin break..Don’t address mr.darwin..you are not worthy..
The man was an honest scientist….don’t piss me off you fraud
/Am i in trouble?

307 reine.de.tout  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:16:50pm

re: #282 ploome hineni

about the cookbook….is there included a disclaimer, that this book is in no way endorsed or whatever the language should be, by Lgf?

and it is only a collection by the people who post there?

yes indeed!
Page ii, first item!

308 Natasha  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:18:31pm

Well, I’ll be a monkey’s uncle aunt!

309 Bloodnok  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:18:46pm

re: #297 Afrocity

Okay, I was not even on this blog then and that post offended me enough to give her a -200. Especially “who thought it wise to bring a fifth child into the world who has Down’s Syndrome. “

I am pro-choice but I do admire the fact that Sarah Palin stuck to her pro-life beliefs and kept the child. I respect that. Keeping the child is a choice too. Trig is very lucky.

Ha! That has to be the only comment rating that you actually have to scroll down to read all the names.

310 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:19:25pm

re: #309 Bloodnok

I doubt it will ever be topped, though some may try.

311 TradeBait  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:22:19pm

So, the scientific community will punish Louisiana economically because they have chosen to adopt a view contrary to their own?

Sounds positively … progressive. ;oP

312 LGoPs  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:22:56pm

re: #293 Charles

Thanks for the background Charles. Let’s hope he is not the nominee……

313 Moody Leo  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:23:13pm

Moon Griffon, a state wide radio talk show host calls Jindal “Campaign Bobby” because he is always on trips to other states to give speeches and such. I have been disappointed in how Jindal and the State Legislature has governed so far, so I may be voting to throw some of the “Bums” out.

314 TedStriker  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:23:54pm

re: #311 TradeBait

So, the scientific community will punish Louisiana economically because they have chosen to adopt a view contrary to their own?

Sounds positively … progressive. ;oP

And because Jindal and the LA legislature abandoned all notion of common sense…

315 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:24:13pm

re: #305 Guanxi88

Jeez! That’s some of the most beautiful stuff I’ve read in a while about the nobility of Man and our destiny.

I may have to watch the series after all/

The series is well worth it. (BTW, my nic comes from it.)

316 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:26:05pm

re: #291 Dammits Dad

It does not need to be a science class, just don’t ban it from schools. Besides I am and never been a big fan of Mr Darwin. And no I did not directly evolve from a monkey.

No, you and great apes both evolved from a hominid common ancestor. Shared artifactual retroviral DNA sequences prove it beyond rational statistical doubt:

[Link: www.newyorker.com…]

excerpt:

“If Charles Darwin reappeared today, he might be surprised to learn that humans are descended from viruses as well as from apes,” Weiss wrote.

Darwin’s surprise almost certainly would be mixed with delight: when he suggested, in “The Descent of Man” (1871), that humans and apes shared a common ancestor, it was a revolutionary idea, and it remains one today. Yet nothing provides more convincing evidence for the “theory” of evolution than the viruses contained within our DNA. Until recently, the earliest available information about the history and the course of human diseases, like smallpox and typhus, came from mummies no more than four thousand years old. Evolution cannot be measured in a time span that short. Endogenous retroviruses provide a trail of molecular bread crumbs leading millions of years into the past.

Darwin’s theory makes sense, though, only if humans share most of those viral fragments with relatives like chimpanzees and monkeys. And we do, in thousands of places throughout our genome. If that were a coincidence, humans and chimpanzees would have had to endure an incalculable number of identical viral infections in the course of millions of years, and then, somehow, those infections would have had to end up in exactly the same place within each genome. The rungs of the ladder of human DNA consist of three billion pairs of nucleotides spread across forty-six chromosomes. The sequences of those nucleotides determine how each person differs from another, and from all other living things. The only way that humans, in thousands of seemingly random locations, could possess the exact retroviral DNA found in another species is by inheriting it from a common ancestor.

Molecular biology has made precise knowledge about the nature of that inheritance possible. With extensive databases of genetic sequences, reconstructing ancestral genomes has become common, and retroviruses have been found in the genome of every vertebrate species that has been studied. Anthropologists and biologists have used them to investigate not only the lineage of primates but the relationships among animals—dogs, jackals, wolves, and foxes, for example—and also to test whether similar organisms may in fact be unrelated.

317 Bloodnok  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:27:39pm

re: #311 TradeBait

So, the scientific community will punish Louisiana economically because they have chosen to adopt a view contrary to their own?

Sounds positively … progressive. ;oP

So I take it you buy the New York Times, donate to the ACLU and pay to see Michael Moore films? Or do you punish them economically because they have chosen to adopt a view contrary to your own?

318 ConservatismNow!  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:27:52pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

It’s funny you mentioned that. I’m in a Humanities class in college studying culture from 15th century to Modern. If given the choice between Michelangelo’s David and a sculpture of a dog sh*tting, I’ll take David, thank you very much.

319 HoosierHoops  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:28:06pm

re: #311 TradeBait

So, the scientific community will punish Louisiana economically because they have chosen to adopt a view contrary to their own?

Sounds positively … progressive. ;oP

Well the scientific community is like the mafia..dumb butt..
They don’t punish anyone..High tech jobs don’t follow and grow within religious parameters…jeez

320 donna quixote  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:28:43pm

#4…I don’t know if that was sarcasm but that’s the end of Jindal as far as I’m concerned. I think if Republicans EVER hope to win they will have to moderate their stand on such things.

321 Afrocity  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:28:53pm

You may think this is bad but here in Chicago I was privy to some conversations with “ayers” types talking about “progressive education” , I just sat there thing WTF? I am so glad I am an adult. When I went to school you did not have to worry about getting shot by your own classmates.
Today marks the one year anniversary of the shootings at Northern Illinois University. I had to teach class that night for another school. I remember thinking that could have been me or one of my students.

I shudder just thinking about it now.

Lets get our kids healthy and sane.

322 LGoPs  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:29:22pm

re: #281 Sharmuta

annefrance’s infamous -482 comment

Man. I missed that one - it was a little while before I registered. Too bad I couldn’t do a post comment down-ding……I tried - even though I know they get frozen……

323 Afrocity  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:29:45pm

re: #313 Moody Leo

Hey I am a Leo!

324 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:32:37pm

re: #2 Guanxi88

sarc tag, sarc tag, sarc tag, how often must you be told?

/

325 Opilio  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:33:46pm

re: #237 BBev

With a cloud of space junk,if the globe is covered with this shit how can we ever get off the ground and discover new worlds to land on and inhabit, If we as humans are to survive we must go out and settle new worlds.

Stuff hits the shuttle on every mission, and the ISS all the time. Most of the stuff up there is tiny, paint flecks, etc.

There are maybe 100,000 pieces of space junk in low Earth orbit large enough to do damage. But space is big. Picture LEO space as the surface of an imaginary sphere. This sphere has a surface area of about 240 million square miles. That averages out to 1 piece every 2400 square miles - about the size of Delaware.

I’d take my chances.

326 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:34:13pm

re: #311 TradeBait

So, the scientific community will punish Louisiana economically because they have chosen to adopt a view contrary to their own?

Sounds positively … progressive. ;oP

I go for 20 posts. Any bets?

327 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:35:27pm

re: #324 Naso Tang

sarc tag, sarc tag, sarc tag, how often must you be told?

/

Seems to me to be obvious.

Everybody knows LDS stands for “Lemonade Drinking Satanists”

//// Just for you, though

328 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:37:15pm

re: #311 TradeBait

So, the scientific community will punish Louisiana economically because they have chosen to adopt a view contrary to their own?

Sounds positively … progressive. ;oP

So, you’ve been registered here all this time, and that’s all you’ve ever had to say?

329 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:37:35pm

re: #316 Salamantis

Hey thank you for your very long winded response but I have a question for you. You you believe in the big bang theory?

330 TradeBait  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:37:40pm
Well the scientific community is like the mafia..dumb butt..
They don’t punish anyone..High tech jobs don’t follow and grow within religious parameters…jeez

Very true. Most high tech jobs these days are outsourced to places like India, where they deify cows and rats. But hey, at least they’re not silly Christians!

331 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:38:33pm

re: #223 DistantThunder

What this illustrates, if anecdotes are accurate, is that schools don’t prepare students for college.

332 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:38:56pm

re: #325 Opilio

I hear ya but you know what I am talking about.

333 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:40:39pm

re: #330 TradeBait

Very true. Most high tech jobs these days are outsourced to places like India, where they deify cows and rats. But hey, at least they’re not silly Christians!

See. here’s the important distinction - Hinduism, and any whacky theories derived from it - have no role in the science and technical education of India. If folks who “deify cows and rats” can understand it, why can’t you?

334 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:41:08pm

re: #327 Guanxi88

Seems to me to be obvious.

Everybody knows LDS stands for “Lemonade Drinking Satanists”

//// Just for you, though

There are people here who been registered for years and have less than 10 posts. They might be very confused by things like sarc tag, no sarc tag, or what the hell it that?

You don’t want to confuse the confused even more do you?

335 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:42:05pm

re: #330 TradeBait

Quite a great number of Christians accept the veracity of evolution and are offended by the ID movement trying to undermine their rights as parents to teach their religious beliefs to their children by foisting creationism in disguise on public schools science classes.

336 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:42:50pm

re: #334 Naso Tang

There are people here who been registered for years and have less than 10 posts. They might be very confused by things like sarc tag, no sarc tag, or what the hell it that?

You don’t want to confuse the confused even more do you?

True, there’s one just now, a Baittrader, who seems somewhat unclear on things. Been registered for ages, it seems, but decided this very day to expose his ignorance and bring shame on himself, his education, and his purported religion in this thread.

337 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:42:57pm

re: #335 Sharmuta

Dammit, do you always have to be so damn nice?

338 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:43:10pm

re: #333 Guanxi88

See. here’s the important distinction - Hinduism, and any whacky theories derived from it - have no role in the science and technical education of India. If folks who “deify cows and rats” can understand it, why can’t you?

Quite true- they place a great deal of emphasis on good education in India, including science where they teach evolution.

339 HoosierHoops  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:43:55pm

re: #330 TradeBait

Very true. Most high tech jobs these days are outsourced to places like India, where they deify cows and rats. But hey, at least they’re not silly Christians!

Wow…ok I’ll back off ace.. Look I work for a high tech global company after 20 years being a nuke in the DOD..Nobody ever asked if I was a Christian…And if India provides better helpdesk support at a cheaper rate then you better get cracking…It’s not got a friggin thing to do with religion..It is purely talent..

340 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:44:45pm

re: #337 Naso Tang

Dammit, do you always have to be so damn nice?

If I told you to go f*ck yourself, would you get the joke?

341 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:45:15pm

re: #340 Sharmuta

Because I’m totally being a smartass here.

342 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:46:04pm

re: #330 TradeBait

Very true. Most high tech jobs these days are outsourced to places like India, where they deify cows and rats. But hey, at least they’re not silly Christians!

re: #333 Guanxi88

See. here’s the important distinction - Hinduism, and any whacky theories derived from it - have no role in the science and technical education of India. If folks who “deify cows and rats” can understand it, why can’t you?

Well?

343 lostlakehiker  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:47:43pm

re: #18 MandyManners

Screw etiquette. This is war against the dark ages.

So? Etiquette is important. The other side in this struggle is also American. It’s a family feud. Those can be more bitter than they need have been, if rudeness reigns.

One can be “proper” yet deadly in debate and politics.

344 grambo46  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:50:01pm

re: #194 callahan23

Profits are going to:


How sweet is that?!?

Sweet enough. I’m pleased that my first post here confirms my order as well.

I’ve been reading for a week or so and am beginning to feel at home. I’m glad I can already contribute in some way.

345 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:50:02pm

Hey, Tradebait! We’re waiting. Where’s your response?

346 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:50:59pm

Naso?

347 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:51:21pm

re: #340 Sharmuta

If I told you to go f*ck yourself, would you get the joke?

I prefer pissing up a rope, if you don’t mind.

348 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:51:24pm

re: #329 BBev

Hey thank you for your very long winded response but I have a question for you. You you believe in the big bang theory?

If you’re really interested in learning about it (and there’s some pretty convincing evidence that the theory is accurate), Wikipedia has a good page on it:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

349 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:51:30pm

Tradebait, Come on! That “deify cows and rats” thing was pretty clever. you got any more? Hey, how about you take a swipe at some other group about whom you know nothing? Maybe that will persuade us.

350 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:51:34pm

re: #329 BBev

Hey thank you for your very long winded response but I have a question for you. You you believe in the big bang theory?

Well?

351 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:51:43pm

re: #347 Naso Tang

OK! Duly noted. ;)

352 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:52:04pm

re: #346 Sharmuta

Naso?

Yes dear, what is it?

353 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:52:34pm

re: #352 Naso Tang

I was worried you took my joke wrong!

354 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:53:25pm

Why do the creationists always adopt that identical snotty superior tone?

355 abolitionist  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:53:31pm

re: #311 TradeBait

So, the scientific community will punish Louisiana economically because they have chosen to adopt a view contrary to their own?

Sounds positively … progressive. ;oP

You think Louisiana’s legislative choices have no adverse impact on the careers of scientists and science teachers in that state? This sort of boycott is entirely appropriate.

356 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:53:47pm

re: #348 Charles

If you’re really interested in learning about it (and there’s some pretty convincing evidence that the theory is accurate), Wikipedia has a god page on it:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Charles please Let me handle this, Please

357 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:53:49pm

re: #353 Sharmuta

I was worried you took my joke wrong!

I thought you thought better of me.

358 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:55:31pm

re: #354 Charles

Why do the creationists always adopt that identical snotty superior tone?

I have no doubt they think the same of you.

359 ConservatismNow!  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:55:55pm

re: #348 Charles

If you’re really interested in learning about it (and there’s some pretty convincing evidence that the theory is accurate), Wikipedia has a good page on it:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

As an interesting corelation, Charles, did you ever see the History channel show about how the universe would end? I thought it was kind of…depressing to thing we’ll either die in a huge ball of fire or slowly freeze to death, depending on whether the universe shrinks or expands.

360 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:55:59pm

re: #354 Charles

Why do the creationists always adopt that identical snotty superior tone?

They think their faith gives them superiority would be my guess.

361 lostlakehiker  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:56:22pm

re: #325 Opilio

Stuff hits the shuttle on every mission, and the ISS all the time. Most of the stuff up there is tiny, paint flecks, etc.

There are maybe 100,000 pieces of space junk in low Earth orbit large enough to do damage. But space is big. Picture LEO space as the surface of an imaginary sphere. This sphere has a surface area of about 240 million square miles. That averages out to 1 piece every 2400 square miles - about the size of Delaware.

I’d take my chances.

You forget. Each piece is moving at 7000 meters per second. That means if your satellite that’s taking its chances has a cross section of 1 square meter, that piece is sweeping out 22075200000 square meters per year. Your chance of getting hit by any single piece is 1 in 25000 or so. Now with ten thousand pieces…?

If there are ten thousand BB sized pieces up there, from this collision, they present, collectively, a substantial risk to anything in low earth orbit.

362 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:56:27pm

re: #357 Naso Tang

I do! But sometimes my jokes backfire…..

363 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:57:24pm

re: #354 Charles

Why do the creationists always adopt that identical snotty superior tone?

And BTW, I am not an ID kind of guy.

364 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 3:59:30pm

re: #329 BBev

Hey thank you for your very long winded response but I have a question for you. You you believe in the big bang theory?

I don’t have to believe in it; I can check the Big Bang echo radiation and know not only that it happened, but check thast radiation’s red shift and know how long ago it happened (13.73 ± 0.12 billion years ago).

It’s called empirical evidence. It’s what science has, that dogma doesn’t.

365 callahan23  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:00:40pm

re: #344 grambo46

Sweet enough. I’m pleased that my first post here confirms my order as well.

I’ve been reading for a week or so and am beginning to feel at home. I’m glad I can already contribute in some way.

Welcome to posting here.
Good decisions on your part. Purchasing the cookbook and joining the ‘legion of lizards’. ‘lol’ - ;-)

366 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:01:12pm

re: #359 ConservatismNow!

As an interesting corelation, Charles, did you ever see the History channel show about how the universe would end? I thought it was kind of…depressing to thing we’ll either die in a huge ball of fire or slowly freeze to death, depending on whether the universe shrinks or expands.

There was an interesting speculation about the Big Rip recently. Plenty of Google stuff on it if interested.

All the more reason to make the most of what one has, whether it’s right or wrong.

367 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:01:48pm

re: #330 TradeBait

Very true. Most high tech jobs these days are outsourced to places like India, where they deify cows and rats. But hey, at least they’re not silly Christians!

Seven posts! That’s all this defender of the faith has in him! Seven lousy posts!

And yet, he manages to defame Hinduism and Christianity - the first with his slur against the people of India, and the second by his pig-ignorance.

Well, played, sir, well played.

368 ConservatismNow!  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:03:20pm

re: #364 Salamantis

I was about to mention that. You don’t believe in scientific theories. Belief implies something that can never be proven true or false. The correct question would have been “Do you think the big bang theory is correct?”

369 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:03:23pm

re: #364 Salamantis

I don’t have to believe in it; I can check the Big Bang echo radiation and know not only that it happened, but check thast radiation’s red shift and know how long ago it happened (13.73 ± 0.12 billion years ago).

It’s called empirical evidence. It’s what science has, that dogma doesn’t.

And oh yeah; consider yourself handled…or at least you ass handed to you.

370 callahan23  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:06:43pm

re: #344 grambo46

And isn’t it particularly sweet to receive your first up-ding on your very first comment?
A mixture of advance laurels and applause for your purchase.
Cheerio
Harry.

371 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:07:10pm

re: #367 Guanxi88


Sarc…..Aaargh

372 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:07:50pm

re: #364 Salamantis

I don’t have to believe in it; I can check the Big Bang echo radiation and know not only that it happened, but check thats radiation’s red shift and know how long ago it happened (13.73 ± 0.12 billion years ago).

It’s called empirical evidence. It’s what science has, that dogma doesn’t.

Oh I believe in it and dogma has nothing to do with it. But do you believe in the big bag theory. yes or no It’s a simple question

373 My 2 Cents  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:08:41pm

Charles, have my posts been removed? I accidentally closed my browser, and now that I am back, I can’t find my comments or any references to them? I really thought it was this thread. Also, wouldn’t I know if I was being banned? I didn’t think I insulted you or anyone else, so that doesn’t seem to be it.

Thank you for your help!

374 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:09:39pm

re: #373 My 2 Cents

No- your comments are on another thread.

375 My 2 Cents  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:10:26pm

Whew! Thank you, Sharmuta.

376 Harvard@Cal  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:11:20pm

What the heck, bring the ID in and then teach why it is not operative in a scientific environment for explaining the variation in lifeforms. If you just try and hide it by throwing the word “creationism” at it, you’re not really taking it on and are no better at arguing than when a lefty throws the word “fascist” around.

377 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:11:44pm

re: #372 BBev

Oh I believe in it and dogma has nothing to do with it. But do you believe in the big bag theory. yes or no It’s a simple question

Try to grok these simple words; belief is not required when one can know.

378 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:15:58pm

re: #372 BBev

Oh I believe in it and dogma has nothing to do with it. But do you believe in the big bag theory. yes or no It’s a simple question

re: #377 Salamantis

Try to grok these simple words; belief is not required when one can know.

I think he’s still googling “grok”

379 Haverwilde  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:19:09pm

re: #378 Guanxi88

I think he’s still googling “grok”

The general meaning of ‘grok’ is clear in context, but the nuance, and potentially snarky meanings must be explored in more detail.

380 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:19:42pm

re: #376 Harvard@Cal

What the heck, bring the ID in and then teach why it is not operative in a scientific environment for explaining the variation in lifeforms. If you just try and hide it by throwing the word “creationism” at it, you’re not really taking it on and are no better at arguing than when a lefty throws the word “fascist” around.

I answered this on another thread:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

381 ziggyelman  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:19:51pm

re: #203 Sharmuta

Here’s a clue- many of us won’t vote for Jindal should he be the nominee. Deal with it now, and find a better alternative, because just like the pro-science people in Louisiana told the Governor and Legislature there would be repercussions that were ignored yet came to pass, there will be repercussions to nominating this man.

So, you a one issue person, like many pro lifers then?

382 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:20:00pm

re: #359 ConservatismNow!

As an interesting corelation, Charles, did you ever see the History channel show about how the universe would end? I thought it was kind of…depressing to thing we’ll either die in a huge ball of fire or slowly freeze to death, depending on whether the universe shrinks or expands.

Worse. Matter could be ripped apart, if the expansion increases the way it looks. Look up “The Big Rip”

383 Der Hirn Fanger  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:20:52pm

You know, my high school science book just had a single sentence that said: “While the big-bang theory and the evolutionary origins of humans are generally accepted scientifically, they are still only theories.”

I come from a town that used to have more churches per capita than any other in the United States, however nobody ever sued the school district.

384 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:20:54pm

re: #381 ziggyelman

No, I’m not, and why are you assuming I’m a pro-lifer?

385 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:21:06pm

re: #379 Haverwilde

The general meaning of ‘grok’ is clear in context, but the nuance, and potentially snarky meanings must be explored in more detail.

Ahh, but I’m betting on a literalist interpretation being the default setting on his hermeneutical engine.

386 TooDamNice  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:22:23pm
re: #330 TradeBait

Very true. Most high tech jobs these days are outsourced to places like India, where they deify cows and rats. But hey, at least they’re not silly Christians!

re: #333 Guanxi88

See. here’s the important distinction - Hinduism, and any whacky theories derived from it - have no role in the science and technical education of India. If folks who “deify cows and rats” can understand it, why can’t you?

Well?


You beleive in the theory of reicarnation? Well? ;-)

387 Haverwilde  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:24:01pm

re: #381 ziggyelman

So, you a one issue person, like many pro lifers then?

This is not a one issue item. It is revealing on the sum and substance of the person. I don’t want a thief, a murderer, a pedophile, a promoter of a theocracy or a damned idiot getting my vote. A couple of those items apply to Jindal.

388 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:24:01pm

re: #377 Salamantis

Try to grok these simple words; belief is not required when one can know.

I am asking you this because (and I really want to discuss this for my own knowledge) the the Bell’s theorem and quatum nonlocality, think about it and how we live our lives.

389 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:24:01pm

re: #374 Sharmuta

No- your comments are on another thread.

Lol

390 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:25:22pm

re: #386 TooDamNice

You beleive in the theory of reicarnation? Well? ;-)

Cylons believe in reincarnation. At least while their reincarnation ship existed.

391 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:26:34pm

re: #383 Der Hirn Fanger

You know, my high school science book just had a single sentence that said: “While the big-bang theory and the evolutionary origins of humans are generally accepted scientifically, they are still only theories.”

I come from a town that used to have more churches per capita than any other in the United States, however nobody ever sued the school district.

One has to live with ones neighbors. Simple.

392 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:26:46pm

re: #386 TooDamNice

You beleive in the theory of reicarnation? Well? ;-)

Who says I do?

My point is this - if the folly of Hinduism (caricatured with dignity, class, and decorum by Baittrader in the “deify cows and rats” line”) is not so sever as to have them teaching Hinud theories of the origins of life and species in their science classes, then why can’t Baittrader’s version of his faith allow him to do the same?

393 ConservatismNow!  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:27:56pm

re: #382 Kosh’s Shadow

I saw that one too. So depressing. But we may not even be around as a species if the energy from that exploding star hits us. Anyone fancy a trip to Mars?

394 alexa kim  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:28:01pm

Oy. Whennnnnn will humans stop picking fights over stuff like this?

I don’t like the idea of “teaching” any religious view. It comes dangerously close to sharia style education. But I resent the hell out of being bullied by atheists into removing even the mere mention of God from all things paid by my government. They go too far.

I’m for the scientific method of interpreting creation. I’m ok with using faith to interpret the science. Frankly, I don’t find them mutually exclusive.

The biggest problem I have with religious interpretations of whatever is there are so many different religions and sects. And they all, maddeningly, insist they and they alone are right.

Here’s a suggestion for science school rooms. How about a sign that says something like: “The theory of evolution is a theory and does not prove OR disprove divine creation, regardless of individual religious orientation”?

I know, it’ll be something else to argue about. What else.

395 TooDamNice  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:28:12pm

I visited my mother today. She has a shiny new t-rex feeder in her back yard. We watched all the pretty t-rexs fly up to the feeder and eat the seeds therein. It was breathtaking. ;-)

Just having fun…

396 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:28:27pm

re: #386 TooDamNice

You beleive in the theory of reicarnation? Well? ;-)

Oh, and just to clear it up for you - I’m a Jew, not a Hindu. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

397 TradeBait  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:28:43pm
True, there’s one just now, a Baittrader, who seems somewhat unclear on things. Been registered for ages, it seems, but decided this very day to expose his ignorance and bring shame on himself, his education, and his purported religion in this thread.

No, I commented once before on a similar thread, in which I quoted the esteemed Carl Sagan’s educated position on the origin of the universe. Sagan said:

The Big Bang is our modern scientific creation myth.

Very inspiring, that!

And what would being a regular commentator on this blog profit me? No measure of meaningful and thought-provoking conversation, apparently. Just a deluge of insults and innuendo — reminiscent of the Huffington Post — by people who don’t have a clue who I am or what I believe (I’m not religious at all, you see). I have no problem with people who are, though, just as I have no problem with their inherent right to elect representatives who protect and project their beliefs.

My faith lies in the fact that truth doesn’t need to be defended by the religious zeal so often demonstrated by evolution apologists. If any principle is true, it will be vindicated by the underlying empirical evidence. Unlike you and your vaunted peers, I don’t fear exposure to any idea.

398 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:29:28pm

re: #377 Salamantis

Try to grok these simple words; belief is not required when one can know.

Let me elaborate. In systems of belief, the basic premises must lie outside the purview of knowledge. This means that neither they may they be undeniably demonstrable by example, nor may they be unequivocally denied by counterexample. Furthermore, induction proceeds from empirical data to statistically probable conclusions. The presence of a single case of contradicting empirical evidence would render a premise untrue while a single case of supporting empirical evidence places a premise within the realm of probability, which is not belief, but statistical knowledge.

The Big Bang echo radiation is supporting empirical evidence for the assertion that the Big Bang happened. Hence, the fact that it happened may be known on the basis of that empirical evidence, and belief that it happened is not necessary.

399 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:31:07pm

re: #388 BBev

I am asking you this because (and I really want to discuss this for my own knowledge) the the Bell’s theorem and quatum nonlocality, think about it and how we live our lives.

None of those have anything to do with whether or not the Big Bang happened.

400 TooDamNice  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:31:17pm

re: #392 Guanxi88

Who says I do?

My point is this - if the folly of Hinduism (caricatured with dignity, class, and decorum by Baittrader in the “deify cows and rats” line”) is not so sever as to have them teaching Hinud theories of the origins of life and species in their science classes, then why can’t Baittrader’s version of his faith allow him to do the same?

I failed to mention I think the cow rat comment is vulgar.

401 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:31:27pm

re: #393 ConservatismNow!

I saw that one too. So depressing. But we may not even be around as a species if the energy from that exploding star hits us. Anyone fancy a trip to Mars?


We need to go further. See my earlier post about going to the stars.
BTW, the Sun will not explode, but it will expand so far that the Earth could be within its atmosphere. We have at least 1 billion years before it becomes unstable, and (I should know this) closer to 4 billion years before the Sun becomes a red giant.

We have much longer before the big rip.

402 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:31:48pm

re: #376 Harvard@Cal

What the heck, bring the ID in and then teach why it is not operative in a scientific environment for explaining the variation in lifeforms. .

That takes about as long as it takes to type “ID refuted” in Google.

403 Haverwilde  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:32:26pm

re: #394 alexa kim

But I resent the hell out of being bullied by atheists into removing even the mere mention of God from all things paid by my government. They go too far.

(a non-sectarian) God is mentioned in the founding documents of our nation, on our money, and in our pledge of allegiance. Isn’t that enough?

404 TooDamNice  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:34:02pm

re: #396 Guanxi88

Oh, and just to clear it up for you - I’m a Jew, not a Hindu. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

There certainly is nothing wrong with being a Hindu, Jew or Christian. See post 400…

405 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:34:52pm

re: #62 reine.de.tout

OT OT OT OT OT

The cookbook is ready for sale! Click my nic.

Final price is $16.41 before postage - that is more than I originally told you it would cost, but when we fixed the “glitch”, there were more pages than before and the books are priced based on number of pages.

Many thanks to:
Ploome, the idea person, for suggesting the project
FlakMusic, who did the heavy lifting getting this in pdf format and uploading it to the publishing site, AND for the back cover
Jaunte for the wonderful front cover artwork
vxbush for proofreading - any errors that may remain are not her fault!
And everyone who submitted a recipe or suggestions!

I hope everyone enjoys the book!

You need to get Charles to say something about this. I learn about it from someone making their first post. What did I miss?

Order coming.

406 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:35:04pm

re: #397 TradeBait

Very inspiring, that!

(I’m not religious at all, you see). I have no problem with people who are, though, just as I have no problem with their inherent right to elect representatives who protect and project their beliefs.

To clarify, then, you support the right of people to elect people to project beliefs that are contrary to reality and the laws and principles by which it works? Interesting position>

My faith lies in the fact that truth doesn’t need to be defended by the religious zeal so often demonstrated by evolution apologists. If any principle is true, it will be vindicated by the underlying empirical evidence. Unlike you and your vaunted peers, I don’t fear exposure to any idea.

Oh, so it’s not just Hindus you despise, then? You extend the courtesy of your bigotry to all religions. And yet, you were solicitous in your concern for the Christians losing high tech jobs to people who deify cows and rats, it was natural enough for me to think you were a Christian seeking to defend the inclusion of ID in the curriculum.

I see now that you merely wish to bring harm and shame to these people; a natural punishment for their foolish ways and beliefs. You are a hard man, sir.

407 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:35:30pm

We’ll be pretty screwed when our galaxy collides with Andromeda.

408 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:35:31pm

re: #400 TooDamNice

I failed to mention I think the cow rat comment is vulgar.

I agree with you there, anyway

409 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:36:07pm

re: #386 TooDamNice

You beleive in the theory of reicarnation? Well? ;-)

Reincarnation, Valhalla, Heaven/Hell and Hades, among many other post-death notions, are all religious dogmas. None of them can be empirically tested. None of them are scientific. None of them can be known. All of them require people to either believe in them or not.

410 itellu3times  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:38:04pm

re: #377 Salamantis

Try to grok these simple words; belief is not required when one can know.

Belief is not required for the truth to be out there.

/not original with the x-files

411 debutaunt  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:38:09pm

re: #225 Killgore Trout

Happy Valentine’s Day….
Penis Jousting and 7 Other Great Animal Mating Rituals

It’s not pr0n, it’s science!

Attica!

412 ConservatismNow!  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:38:40pm

re: #401 Kosh’s Shadow

I wasn’t talking about our sun exploding. A few years ago we received evidence that the radiation from an exploding star in the next galaxy over may hit us and end all life on earth. My details are a bit fuzzy, but something a neutrons and radiation. I’ll look around for it.

413 Haverwilde  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:39:09pm

re: #397 TradeBait

Very inspiring, that!

My faith lies in the fact that truth doesn’t need to be defended by the religious zeal so often demonstrated by evolution apologists deniers. If any principle is true, it will be vindicated by the underlying empirical evidence Unlike evolution..

There I fixed it for you.

414 ConservatismNow!  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:40:25pm

re: #412 ConservatismNow!

Oh, and this.
Your text to link…

415 itellu3times  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:41:02pm

re: #412 ConservatismNow!

I wasn’t talking about our sun exploding. A few years ago we received evidence that the radiation from an exploding star in the next galaxy over may hit us and end all life on earth. My details are a bit fuzzy, but something a neutrons and radiation. I’ll look around for it.

What you might have read is that in some galaxies the core implodes, or the whole thing collides with another, and that if that happened here, we’d be toast. Perhaps if an adjacent galaxy did that and the angle were exactly right, it might hurt us. But nothing like that seems to be the case, so relax!

416 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:41:19pm

re: #398 Salamantis

Let me elaborate. In systems of belief, the basic premises must lie outside the purview of knowledge. This means that neither they may they be undeniably demonstrable by example, nor may they be unequivocally denied by counterexample. Furthermore, induction proceeds from empirical data to statistically probable conclusions. The presence of a single case of contradicting empirical evidence would render a premise untrue while a single case of supporting empirical evidence places a premise within the realm of probability, which is not belief, but statistical knowledge.

The Big Bang echo radiation is supporting empirical evidence for the assertion that the Big Bang happened. Hence, the fact that it happened may be known on the basis of that empirical evidence, and belief that it happened is not necessary.

Ya da ya da ya da . ya that was one but how many happened maybe at the same time? you think that it was the one and only. I know about red shift please don’t try and educate me about it. Think the big picture and many many trillion’s of years

417 ziggyelman  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:42:26pm

re: #384 Sharmuta

No, I’m not, and why are you assuming I’m a pro-lifer?

I’m not assuming anything…except you would rather have Obama in office for 8 years than a guy who is a creationist….which does seem a bit like a one issue voter, does it not?

418 itellu3times  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:43:45pm

re: #376 Harvard@Cal

What the heck, bring the ID in and then teach why it is not operative in a scientific environment for explaining the variation in lifeforms. If you just try and hide it by throwing the word “creationism” at it, you’re not really taking it on and are no better at arguing than when a lefty throws the word “fascist” around.

but that’s silly, well, if you spend more than about an hour on it, anyway, which is about the time one should spend in say a gradeschool class, explaining that the world is round and that it orbits the sun. Details and skepticism are best left for college sophomores, for such basic matters.

419 TradeBait  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:46:14pm
Oh, so it’s not just Hindus you despise, then? You extend the courtesy of your bigotry to all religions. And yet, you were solicitous in your concern for the Christians losing high tech jobs to people who deify cows and rats, it was natural enough for me to think you were a Christian seeking to defend the inclusion of ID in the curriculum.

Another silly, baseless assumption. If I ever find myself despising any person or any religion as deeply as you despise anyone who posts a differing opinion, then I’ll be worried.

420 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:46:22pm

re: #407 Sharmuta

We’ll be pretty screwed when our galaxy collides with Andromeda.

In a billion years or so, but if still around, we wouldn’t notice a thing except a fantastic view that would put the Milky Way to shame (who sees the Milky Way these days anyway except maybe folks in the Montana area).

The space between stars is so great they would just pass by each other, for the most part, all 400 or 500 billion of them as Sagan would say.

421 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:46:45pm

re: #397 TradeBait

My faith lies in the fact that truth doesn’t need to be defended by the religious zeal so often demonstrated by evolution apologists. If any principle is true, it will be vindicated by the underlying empirical evidence. Unlike you and your vaunted peers, I don’t fear exposure to any idea.

The only reason evolution is being defended with zeal is because of the constant attacks it’s come under by creationists, as well as the wide spread misunderstanding of the theory by intelligent people who were just never taught it properly, such as me. Now that I’ve taken some time to educate myself to better understand evolution, yes- I’ll promote it with zeal because it’s true. To those who are under-informed on the matter, I’ve tried to enlighten. To those who are close minded, I confront them with facts, just like Sala, even though we know they’ll dismiss our comments and facts out of hand.

422 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:48:01pm

re: #416 BBev

Ya da ya da ya da . ya that was one but how many happened maybe at the same time? you think that it was the one and only. I know about red shift please don’t try and educate me about it. Think the big picture and many many trillion’s of years

There IS NO ‘trillions’ of years. The Universe is 13.7 billion years old. matter-energy creates spacetime via gravitational curvature. So claiming that there is a ‘before’ the Big Bang is as absurd and nonsensical as claiming that there is an ‘outside’ the Universe.

And no, we only have echo radiation from ONE Big Bang. There exists no empirical evidence whatsoever for any others.

BTW: aren’t you the hysterical and execrable individual who swore to follow me from thread to thread and hound me off LGF some time ago?

Good luck with that.

423 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:48:53pm

re: #417 ziggyelman

You’re completely misrepresenting the clue I tried to give you. What I would prefer is a candidate I can support enthusiastically. Jindal ain’t him.

424 TooDamNice  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:49:57pm

re: #421 Sharmuta

The only reason evolution is being defended with zeal is because of the constant attacks it’s come under by creationists, as well as the wide spread misunderstanding of the theory by intelligent people who were just never taught it properly, such as me. Now that I’ve taken some time to educate myself to better understand evolution, yes- I’ll promote it with zeal because it’s true. To those who are under-informed on the matter, I’ve tried to enlighten. To those who are close minded, I confront them with facts, just like Sala, even though we know they’ll dismiss our comments and facts out of hand.

I enjoy your posts despite being a “creationist”. They are deep and well written. I am curious… do you have a religion?

425 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:50:29pm

re: #424 TooDamNice

I enjoy your posts despite being a “creationist”. They are deep and well written. I am curious… do you have a religion?

Yes.

426 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:51:37pm

re: #420 Naso Tang

In a billion years or so, but if still around, we wouldn’t notice a thing except a fantastic view that would put the Milky Way to shame (who sees the Milky Way these days anyway except maybe folks in the Montana area).

The space between stars is so great they would just pass by each other, for the most part, all 400 or 500 billion of them as Sagan would say.

I agree with you, I remember well seeing the stars from the mountains of New Mexico in the early 70’s, it was like you could pick a star out of the sky with your fingers

427 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:52:18pm

re: #425 Sharmuta

Yes.

And so do I.

428 TooDamNice  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:52:26pm

re: #422 Salamantis

There IS NO ‘trillions’ of years. The Universe is 13.7 billion years old. matter-energy creates spacetime via gravitational curvature. So claiming that there is a ‘before’ the Big Bang is as absurd and nonsensical as claiming that there is an ‘outside’ the Universe.

And no, we only have echo radiation from ONE Big Bang. There exists no empirical evidence whatsoever for any others.

BTW: aren’t you the hysterical and execrable individual who swore to follow me from thread to thread and hound me off LGF some time ago?

Good luck with that.

I should probably wait for your reespose to my first question… but here goes: How could there be “nothing” before the big bang?

429 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:53:49pm

re: #412 ConservatismNow!

I wasn’t talking about our sun exploding. A few years ago we received evidence that the radiation from an exploding star in the next galaxy over may hit us and end all life on earth. My details are a bit fuzzy, but something a neutrons and radiation. I’ll look around for it.

In another galaxy would not, but a star going super nova relatively nearby within, I think, a few hundred light years could fry us. It is possible that Betelgeuse, in Orion, could go or already has anytime, but hopefully that would just be like a second full moon in the sky for a while.

430 itellu3times  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:54:02pm

re: #428 TooDamNice

I should probably wait for your reespose to my first question… but here goes: How could there be “nothing” before the big bang?

In roughly the same way as there could have been something beforehand, except backwards. Seriously, which is the more difficult question? Much beer is required to consider it seriously at all.

431 TradeBait  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:55:38pm
The Universe is 13.7 billion years old. matter-energy creates spacetime via gravitational curvature. So claiming that there is a ‘before’ the Big Bang is as absurd and nonsensical as claiming that there is an ‘outside’ the Universe.

And yet that is exactly what many mainstream physicists propose. They believe our universe is but one of an infinite number of universes, all floating around like bubbles in the bath. They contend that a disturbance or eruption in another existing universe may have been the source of the big bang that created our cosmos.

432 TooDamNice  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:55:59pm

re: #427 Salamantis

And so do I.

Oops! I got you two confused! You BOTH have well written posts! So… what religion(s) do you two belong? (I am not asking so that I can judge or put down… I’m just very curious.)

433 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:56:26pm

re: #428 TooDamNice

I should probably wait for your reespose to my first question… but here goes: How could there be “nothing” before the big bang?

Because ‘before’ indicates time previous to the Big Bang, which would be impossible, considering that the matter-energy created by the Big Bang itself created spacetime (both space AND time) via gravitiational curvature. In fact, before the Big Bang, there not only wasn’t a ‘then’; there wasn’t even a ‘there.’

434 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:56:58pm

The Big Bang was just God farting. That’s my theory. /

435 Haverwilde  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:57:27pm

re: #428 TooDamNice

I should probably wait for your reespose to my first question… but here goes: How could there be “nothing” before the big bang?

Sal will give a better answer, but I couldn’t resist jumping in. I had a long talk with my Pastor some years ago. He had problems when we talked about this subject. I mentioned that there is an interrelationship between, matter, energy, space and time. Before the Big Bang, time did not exist.
I always felt that was a pretty mind-blowing concept. If you believe in God, as I do, you must credit Him with the creation of time as well.

436 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:58:15pm

re: #407 Sharmuta

We’ll be pretty screwed when our galaxy collides with Andromeda.


Maybe not - like two clouds passing. If our solar system itself isn’t disrupted, we could go for a ride that we’d never feel.
Only if another star passes close enough to disrupt the solar system (or whatever ones we’re living in by then) will there be a problem.

437 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:59:03pm

re: #376 Harvard@Cal

What the heck, bring the ID in and then teach why it is not operative in a scientific environment for explaining the variation in lifeforms. If you just try and hide it by throwing the word “creationism” at it, you’re not really taking it on and are no better at arguing than when a lefty throws the word “fascist” around.

“Intelligent design” is creationism, dressed up in a cheap suit.

438 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:59:40pm

re: #412 ConservatismNow!

I wasn’t talking about our sun exploding. A few years ago we received evidence that the radiation from an exploding star in the next galaxy over may hit us and end all life on earth. My details are a bit fuzzy, but something a neutrons and radiation. I’ll look around for it.

I think a supernova would have to be within 30 light years for it to have that effect, not the millions of light years for another galaxy. My 30 LY might be off, but it is on the order of tens, not millions.

439 ConservatismNow!  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 4:59:56pm

re: #433 Salamantis

…far out. I mean that. This is so far beyond my comprehension I don’t even know where to start. I feel like the guy who walks in on a group of D&D players and asks how to play. Then I walk out more confused than before.

440 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:00:22pm

re: #422 Salamantis

Yes I’m your Huckleberry and you are thinking so lineal and not Many-worlds interpretation

441 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:01:07pm

re: #422 Salamantis

There IS NO ‘trillions’ of years. The Universe is 13.7 billion years old. matter-energy creates spacetime via gravitational curvature. So claiming that there is a ‘before’ the Big Bang is as absurd and nonsensical as claiming that there is an ‘outside’ the Universe.

And no, we only have echo radiation from ONE Big Bang. There exists no empirical evidence whatsoever for any others.

BTW: aren’t you the hysterical and execrable individual who swore to follow me from thread to thread and hound me off LGF some time ago?

Good luck with that.

There are some membrane theories that involve multiple big bangs due to colliding membranes.

442 TooDamNice  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:01:13pm

re: #433 Salamantis

Because ‘before’ indicates time previous to the Big Bang, which would be impossible, considering that the matter-energy created by the Big Bang itself created spacetime (both space AND time) via gravitiational curvature. In fact, before the Big Bang, there not only wasn’t a ‘then’; there wasn’t even a ‘there.’

Ok… That begs the question… how can space and time originate from nothing?

443 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:01:29pm

re: #428 TooDamNice

I should probably wait for your reespose to my first question… but here goes: How could there be “nothing” before the big bang?

Can you envisage something without nothing, or vice versa? One or the other would seem equally likely, I suggest.

Maybe this is what they had in mind with that ying and yang stuff out east?

444 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:01:42pm

re: #431 TradeBait

And yet that is exactly what many mainstream physicists propose. They believe our universe is but one of an infinite number of universes, all floating around like bubbles in the bath. They contend that a disturbance or eruption in another existing universe may have been the source of the big bang that created our cosmos.

Actually, multiverse ‘theory’ is much like string ‘theory’; both are mathematical castles in the air, without a single shred of supporting empirical evidence. They are better known as hypotheses or conjectures. OTOH, relativity theory and quantum mechanics have both been empirically verified countless times; therefore, it is reasonable to assume that any GUTOE (grand unified theory of everything) would have to include them both as special cases. Garrett Lisi’s E8 theory does just that, which is why I am eagerly awaiting its verification or falsification via the search for the elusive Higgs Boson soon to take place in the LHC (large hadron collider).

445 least  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:02:14pm

re: #191 Dammits Dad

… Flame me if you wish.

Done and done and done. There are those who can’t wait to do that.

446 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:03:47pm

re: #419 TradeBait

Another silly, baseless assumption. If I ever find myself despising any person or any religion as deeply as you despise anyone who posts a differing opinion, then I’ll be worried.

Very well, then. So, next time you’ve got Mumbai tech support on the line, ask them whether characterizing Hinduism as people who “deify cows and rats” constitutes despising. I daresay Sanjay et al might well take exception.

But, you do as you see best.

447 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:03:57pm

re: #440 BBev

Yes I’m your Huckleberry and you are thinking so lineal and not Many-worlds interpretation

I leave circular pseudoreasoning to the religious dogmatists.

448 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:04:10pm

re: #445 least

You did see I blew you James Madison quote to smithereens, right?

449 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:04:33pm

re: #444 Salamantis

WOW hold on just in what Salamantis just said is a theory. WOW, Dude

450 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:05:40pm

re: #447 Salamantis

I leave circular pseudoreasoning to the religious dogmatists.

PS: You’re no daisy…

451 Haverwilde  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:07:16pm

re: #442 TooDamNice

Ok… That begs the question… how can space and time originate from nothing?


When you push scientific theory to its limits, it holds out huge questions. And it is at this point where I become quite awed. Imagine the immensity of your question. Now imagine the theological perspective that encapsulates the idea. It makes the god of the ‘young earth creationists’ such a piker by comparison. For me I choose that grander more awesome God.

452 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:07:24pm

re: #449 BBev

WOW hold on just in what Salamantis just said is a theory. WOW, Dude

Yep, Garrett Lisi’s E8 theory can be empirically verified or falsified, which is why it is a genuine theory, unlike multiverse or string ‘theories’, which cannot be.

453 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:07:37pm

re: #447 Salamantis

I leave circular pseudoreasoning to the religious dogmatists.

Hold one a minute, I never said anything about religion I have been talking pure science and nothing more.

454 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:08:01pm

Oh, TooDamnNice: I’m a Pagan…but I’m not fundamentalist about it…;~)

455 ziggyelman  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:09:06pm

re: #423 Sharmuta

You’re completely misrepresenting the clue I tried to give you. What I would prefer is a candidate I can support enthusiastically. Jindal ain’t him.

With all due respect, I am not misrepresenting anything. Just showing that you are not that far off from a one issue voter. Jindal has done some great things for Louisiana, but that doesn’t seem to make much difference.
As I have said several times, who’s going to be that magical candidate everyone will voter for?
I voted for McCain because I thought he would be much better than Obama. I voted for him in spite of him believing in GW. I couldn’t give two bleeps that he was stupid enough to believe it.
Jindal is very well spoken, would get the black vote(perhaps) Latin vote, and religious vote, and people tired of Obama.
or we can get the next another bland white guy who does nothing to get any new voters in the Republican camp….

456 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:09:54pm

re: #440 BBev

Yes I’m your Huckleberry and you are thinking so lineal and not Many-worlds interpretation

OK, there are mathematical suggestions that there can be other universes, popping up every nanosecond so to speak. In other words we are but a bubble in a foam, and the rules are different in all of them. It’s what one would call the anthropic principle, but on a scale of infinity.

Now, can we get back to debating something versus nothing ?

//

457 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:10:01pm

re: #452 Salamantis

Yep, Garrett Lisi’s E8 theory can be empirically verified or falsified, which is why it is a genuine theory, unlike multiverse or string ‘theories’, which cannot be.

Hey I was talking about multi universe, please don’t try and change the subject

458 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:10:42pm

re: #456 Naso Tang

OK, there are mathematical suggestions that there can be other universes, popping up every nanosecond so to speak. In other words we are but a bubble in a foam, and the rules are different in all of them. It’s what one would call the anthropic principle, but on a scale of infinity.

Now, can we get back to debating something versus nothing ?

//

NO

459 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:11:54pm

re: #456 Naso Tang

OK, there are mathematical suggestions that there can be other universes, popping up every nanosecond so to speak. In other words we are but a bubble in a foam, and the rules are different in all of them. It’s what one would call the anthropic principle, but on a scale of infinity.

Now, can we get back to debating something versus nothing ?

//

Particle-antiparticle pairs randomly popping into and out of existence in the quantum foam do not a Big Bang genesis quantum fluctuation make.

460 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:13:07pm

re: #455 ziggyelman

With all due respect, I am not misrepresenting anything. Just showing that you are not that far off from a one issue voter. Jindal has done some great things for Louisiana, but that doesn’t seem to make much difference.
As I have said several times, who’s going to be that magical candidate everyone will voter for?
I voted for McCain because I thought he would be much better than Obama. I voted for him in spite of him believing in GW. I couldn’t give two bleeps that he was stupid enough to believe it.
Jindal is very well spoken, would get the black vote(perhaps) Latin vote, and religious vote, and people tired of Obama.
or we can get the next another bland white guy who does nothing to get any new voters in the Republican camp….

I will not vote for Bobby Jindal, and I will not support him for President. If the GOP puts him up as a candidate, he’s going to lose. Every bad thing that the media and the Democrats tried to pin on Sarah Palin, Bobby Jindal actually did. He does not have a chance at the presidency.

Maybe you missed this (or maybe not):

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

461 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:13:26pm

re: #457 BBev

Hey I was talking about multi universe, please don’t try and change the subject

I WAS talking about it; I was asserting that there is no empirical evidence whatsoever for such a conjecture, so it is technically incorrect to call it a scientific theory.

462 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:13:33pm

re: #436 Kosh’s Shadow

Maybe not - like two clouds passing. If our solar system itself isn’t disrupted, we could go for a ride that we’d never feel.
Only if another star passes close enough to disrupt the solar system (or whatever ones we’re living in by then) will there be a problem.

I watched a computerized enactment of it once, and it looked really cool.

463 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:13:59pm

re: #459 Salamantis

Particle-antiparticle pairs randomly popping into and out of existence in the quantum foam do not a Big Bang genesis quantum fluctuation make.


Ya you may think that but you would be so very wrong.

464 TooDamNice  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:14:05pm

I just watched this. Scary.

The New Depression

465 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:14:22pm

re: #459 Salamantis

Particle-antiparticle pairs randomly popping into and out of existence in the quantum foam do not a Big Bang genesis quantum fluctuation make.

No. That is not what I was talking about, but I’m not that kind of mathematician so I’m not going to get too tied up here. I do however think you know what I am talking about, M Theory and it’s variations I believe.

466 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:16:08pm

re: #464 TooDamNice

Uhh. Not the place to post that, if I’m not mistaken.

467 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:16:09pm

re: #463 BBev

Ya you may think that but you would be so very wrong.

Bell’s Theorem does not entail the Many Worlds interpretation; it can also indicate superluminal connections, or spooky-action-at-a-distance, which is precisely what the Alain Aspect quantum entanglement experiment found to be the case.

468 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:16:42pm

re: #463 BBev

Ya you may think that but you would be so very wrong.

This is beginning to get ridiculous. What is your purpose with this stuff? Are you just harassing Salamantis? Because that’s what it looks like to me, and I’m getting tired of wading through this crap.

469 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:17:19pm

re: #460 Charles

Maybe a front page post would help, Charles. People seem to not be getting the message that this guy’s going to be beyond problematic for the GOP. Average Americans will find the exorcism nutty, and whiffs of nazis are a death knell.

470 TooDamNice  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:17:59pm

re: #466 Naso Tang

Uhh. Not the place to post that, if I’m not mistaken.

Sorry Charles if this is forbidden…

471 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:18:33pm

re: #461 Salamantis

I WAS talking about it; I was asserting that there is no empirical evidence whatsoever for such a conjecture, so it is technically incorrect to call it a scientific theory.

So now I see how you think, Dude I’m done with you, you are boring to me. So STFU

472 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:19:17pm

re: #471 BBev

Why are you being so rude?

473 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:20:23pm

re: #465 Naso Tang

No. That is not what I was talking about, but I’m not that kind of mathematician so I’m not going to get too tied up here. I do however think you know what I am talking about, M Theory and it’s variations I believe.

M Theory is a variant of string ‘theory’, and there exists no empirical evidence that supports it.

474 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:20:24pm

I agree with Charles- you push Sala to discuss the Big Bang theory, then you tell him to STFU? Why did you push the issue then? WTH?

475 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:20:57pm

re: #472 Sharmuta

Why are you being so rude?

Like a scorpion, it’s just its nature.

476 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:21:12pm

re: #472 Sharmuta

Why are you being so rude?

Because he’s got a billion billion electron volts shooting up his ass all the time. How would you feel?

477 Haverwilde  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:21:56pm

re: #471 BBev

Well, Sal, BB seems to be bored with you. I, on the other hand still find your comments wonderfully educational. You are by far my favorite Pagan. And what ever you do DON’T STFU.

478 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:22:19pm

re: #473 Salamantis

M Theory is a variant of string ‘theory’, and there exists no empirical evidence that supports it.

Empirical no, I agree, but there is always tomorrow. Ain’t this stuff fun?

479 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:22:22pm

re: #471 BBev

So now I see how you think, Dude I’m done with you, you are boring to me. So STFU

Yeah; I think empirically. Unlike, apparently, you.

480 TooDamNice  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:22:39pm

re: #472 Sharmuta

Why are you being so rude?

The weight of the discussion overwhelmed him. He was not prepared for such a deep debate/discussion.

481 TooDamNice  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:24:43pm

re: #454 Salamantis

Oh, TooDamnNice: I’m a Pagan…but I’m not fundamentalist about it…;~)

:-) Who are your gods? Do you have a god of love? If so tell her to send a new female my way. I need some “strange” in my life now.

482 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:26:00pm

re: #473 Salamantis

M Theory is a variant of string ‘theory’, and there exists no empirical evidence that supports it.


However, if they can actually perform some calculations in it, it can be tested, making it a theory (unlike ID). It does deserve some work.

483 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:26:15pm

Don’t dress in honey when you’re hunting bear; you might end up being the one that gets eaten.

484 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:26:21pm

re: #468 Charles

This is beginning to get ridiculous. What is your purpose with this stuff? Are you just harassing Salamantis? Because that’s what it looks like to me, and I’m getting tired of wading through this crap.

No I’m not I an trying to talk pure science along with theory and I want a good solid discussion . I have not said anything out of line and without back-up. I’m sorry if this has caused you discomfort but Dude, I’m from a family of very far if not socialist democrats and if I did not speak up I was not heard.

485 TooDamNice  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:26:42pm

Comment on my nametag: I know that damn is spelled wrong… it was my original handle on AOL many years ago. I was limited to ten characters. ;-)

486 theheat  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:27:04pm

Fundie ID whinefest in one, two, three…

It’s fun watching them spin in circles, chasing their tails. It’s a lot like shaking a can of soda, then pulling off the top, and watching it explode.

If Jindal and his lemmings took back every crazy thing they said, they’re still crazy. They’re just throwing a blanket over the crazy to get elected, then unleash the crazy again as soon as the coast is clear.

Nope. Not buying it for a second.

487 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:29:19pm

re: #482 Kosh’s Shadow

However, if they can actually perform some calculations in it, it can be tested, making it a theory (unlike ID). It does deserve some work.

EVERYTHING deserves some work. But I must confess that the Gordian contortions of all of those mathematical dimensions reminds me of Ptolemaic epicycles, while Garrett Lisi’s E8 theory only requires the four Einsteinian ones.

488 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:29:59pm

re: #484 BBev

No I’m not I an trying to talk pure science along with theory and I want a good solid discussion . I have not said anything out of line and without back-up. I’m sorry if this has caused you discomfort but Dude, I’m from a family of very far if not socialist democrats and if I did not speak up I was not heard.

OK. Well, here’s a warning. If you don’t knock it off, you’re going to lose your account.

489 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:30:27pm

re: #484 BBev

No I’m not I an trying to talk pure science along with theory and I want a good solid discussion . I have not said anything out of line and without back-up. I’m sorry if this has caused you discomfort but Dude, I’m from a family of very far if not socialist democrats and if I did not speak up I was not heard.

A good solid discussion seems to be what you objected to when you got it.

490 Haverwilde  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:31:25pm

re: #484 BBev

No I’m not I an trying to talk pure science along with theory and I want a good solid discussion . I have not said anything out of line and without back-up. I’m sorry if this has caused you discomfort but Dude, I’m from a family of very far if not socialist democrats and if I did not speak up I was not heard.

Bullshit! Sal was talking theory with you, and you said you were bored and told him to STFU. That is NOT a way to get a “good solid discussion.”

491 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:34:41pm

re: #489 Salamantis

A good solid discussion seems to be what you objected to when you got it.

We are getting close, Sorry Charles, I’ll slow down.

492 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:35:23pm

re: #489 Salamantis

Sorry I will slow down

493 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:37:08pm

re: #492 BBev

Sorry I will slow down

Well, it’s not like you are too fast for me, or anything; just too rude. Deal with that, and we have no problem.

494 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:38:37pm

re: #489 Salamantis

A good solid discussion seems to be what you objected to when you got it.

What I was getting to was the fact that there may have been many big bangs in multiple universes, I understand red sift and blue shift

495 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:40:18pm

re: #494 BBev

What I was getting to was the fact that there may have been many big bangs in multiple universes, I understand red sift and blue shift

And what I was getting at is that there is no empirical support whatsoever for such a supposition.

496 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:41:00pm

re: #493 Salamantis

Well, it’s not like you are too fast for me, or anything; just too rude. Deal with that, and we have no problem.

Sorry for being rude and I’m sure I will be again take it for what it is

497 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:41:44pm

re: #496 BBev

Sorry for being rude and I’m sure I will be again take it for what it is

Your nature.

498 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:43:10pm

re: #488 Charles

Sorry Charles, again.

499 BBev  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:51:17pm

re: #497 Salamantis

Your nature.

I’m in construction, I build them, sell them, rent them, manage them, finance them and foreclose them, so yes it is. And I’m good at it. Sorry

500 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:51:55pm

Ok, everybody is sorry, even about the electrons.

Moving on?

501 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:52:35pm

re: #499 BBev

I’m in construction, I build them, sell them, rent them, manage them, finance them and foreclose them, so yes it is. And I’m good at it. Sorry

Where?

502 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:52:49pm

re: #487 Salamantis

EVERYTHING deserves some work. But I must confess that the Gordian contortions of all of those mathematical dimensions reminds me of Ptolemaic epicycles, while Garrett Lisi’s E8 theory only requires the four Einsteinian ones.

I still think that we’re on the wrong track for some of this; maybe someday I’ll have the time to proceed with some ideas I have as well.

503 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 5:56:32pm

re: #485 TooDamNice

Comment on my nametag: I know that damn is spelled wrong… it was my original handle on AOL many years ago. I was limited to ten characters. ;-)

Oh, I was wondering where the ice came from…..

504 ziggyelman  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 6:18:29pm

re: #460 Charles

I will not vote for Bobby Jindal, and I will not support him for President. If the GOP puts him up as a candidate, he’s going to lose. Every bad thing that the media and the Democrats tried to pin on Sarah Palin, Bobby Jindal actually did. He does not have a chance at the presidency.

Maybe you missed this (or maybe not):

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Charles, I didn’t see that before….doesn’t look good I admit, but I want to read more than one or two sources before I write someone off, someone who speaks better than even Obama….
IF he ends up being the running, we will find out a lot more about him of course(And you will be leading the way)…hopefully early on. But, if Obama with all his warts and Chicago connections could become our president,(Well, with a bit of help from the press) isn’t it possible anyone can?

505 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 6:22:04pm

re: #504 ziggyelman

Charles, I didn’t see that before….doesn’t look good I admit, but I want to read more than one or two sources before I write someone off, someone who speaks better than even Obama….
IF he ends up being the running, we will find out a lot more about him of course(And you will be leading the way)…hopefully early on. But, if Obama with all his warts and Chicago connections could become our president,(Well, with a bit of help from the press) isn’t it possible anyone can?

Yeah, anyone can…and that’s a big problem. One needs only to fool more than half the voters once.

506 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 6:23:34pm

re: #504 ziggyelman

Charles, I didn’t see that before….doesn’t look good I admit, but I want to read more than one or two sources before I write someone off, someone who speaks better than even Obama….
IF he ends up being the running, we will find out a lot more about him of course(And you will be leading the way)…hopefully early on. But, if Obama with all his warts and Chicago connections could become our president,(Well, with a bit of help from the press) isn’t it possible anyone can?

You really think the press will ever help politicians on the right?

507 ziggyelman  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 6:41:59pm

re: #506 Sharmuta

You really think the press will ever help politicians on the right?

No….but at least the argument can be made that if Obama can have an out and out racist marry him, baptize his children, and inspire his writings, then anyone’s close connections are not as important as they once were thought to be….hard for me to make clear points with all the noise going on in my house right now…

508 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 7:09:10pm

re: #507 ziggyelman

Sure you can make that argument. But reality is that the press doesn’t play fair. If you honestly think the msm will cut Jindal slack, can I have some of what you’re smoking? Because it’s not going to happen. Jindal will scare the crap out of the middle, the independents, the moderates- the people needed to win an election. All without the msm doing much but reporting facts that he signed a stealth creationist bill into law, he participated in an exorcism, and he’s in league with a guy who gave speeches to nazi groups. Reality is the msm would help a leftist get away with that, but not a republican, and these facts are the kiss of death nationally. We need to deal with things the way they are, and not the way we’d like them to be. And reality is, this man is not electable.

509 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 7:21:16pm

And really- what is the argument you’re trying to make? That we should get to elect a republican who has repulsive friends because the democrats did?

I thought we were better than that.

510 alexa kim  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 10:24:57pm

re: #403 Haverwilde

(a non-sectarian) God is mentioned in the founding documents of our nation, on our money, and in our pledge of allegiance. Isn’t that enough?

Yes, it is! I was not arguing for more or specific mentions, forcrissakes. I just don’t see the need for removing even those very generic references. Why does this even have to be a fight?!

I just don’t see the good of being offended by the word “God” written by the people who started this crazy experiment called America. Like it or not, they believed in God and no amount of hating that will change the facts. They knew what it was like to be persecuted for practicing their faith differently from the state.

As I see it, they just decided to acknowledge what they believed most people believed and purposely didn’t name names. And that’s all.

I am dismayed that my original comment was deemed unpopular or inappropriate.

We’re really not that much farther along, are we.

511 alexa kim  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 11:03:17pm

I took a few extra minutes to read a few more comments and it seems that mostly this is not about, or it is no longer about, the public policy health or ill of having a governor sign into law a bill presented to him by the state’s legislators that provides or allows an opposing teaching favored by the religious to evolution.

Again, frankly, I do not have any problem holding both evolution and intelligent design at the same time. I do not see them as mutually exclusive (however, I think that’s the part of my original comment that perhaps irked some here).

But, folks, the more the scientists argue that science is the only true way, the more it sounds like disagreements will not be tolerated. Um… many religious fanatics tend do that… too.

The only trouble with science is that, sometimes, not always, but sometimes, we make a break through, a discovery, even invent a whole new industry out of it, then, we learn we were wrong.

Just sayin’.

512 Sloppy  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 11:14:03pm

Some years ago I served on the convention site selection committee of a national professional organization. Our three finalists were Wichita, Salt Lake City and Honolulu. Guess who won?

513 alexa kim  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 11:17:40pm

re: #512 Sloppy

Honolulu.

514 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 11:26:04pm

re: #511 alexa kim

I took a few extra minutes to read a few more comments and it seems that mostly this is not about, or it is no longer about, the public policy health or ill of having a governor sign into law a bill presented to him by the state’s legislators that provides or allows an opposing teaching favored by the religious to evolution.

Again, frankly, I do not have any problem holding both evolution and intelligent design at the same time. I do not see them as mutually exclusive (however, I think that’s the part of my original comment that perhaps irked some here).

Intelligent design is a propaganda PR term that was created by the Disco Institute shills to advance their Wedge Strategy agenda by attempting to circumvent judicial prohibitions against teaching the religious dogma of creationism in public high school science class - and it failed, as Judge Jones correctly ruled against it in the Dover decision.

But, folks, the more the scientists argue that science is the only true way, the more it sounds like disagreements will not be tolerated. Um… many religious fanatics tend do that… too.

When cereationist fail to elevate dogmatic religion to the status of empirical science, they always try to reduce empirical science to the level of dogmatic religion. But both ploys always fail, because the essential distinction - the presence vs. the absence of supporting empirical evidence - is ineradicable.

The only trouble with science is that, sometimes, not always, but sometimes, we make a break through, a discovery, even invent a whole new industry out of it, then, we learn we were wrong.

Just sayin’.

We can’t teach the empirical science that someone conjectures just might happen in some undefined future; we have to tach the empirical science that we know today. And for 150 years, evolutionary theory has been supported by ALL the relevant empirical evidence, and contradicted by NONE of it. Some scientific theories come and go; others, like the heliocentric theory of the solar system, the laws of motion/celestial mechanics/theory of universal gravitation, the theory of relativity, the theory of quantum mechanics, and the theory of evolution - come and stay, and for good and ample empirical reasons.

515 alexa kim  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 11:35:07pm

re: #514 Salamantis

As I just commented in the new Overnight Thread, my reference to intelligent design was in the generic, not to the movement.

Salamantis, you continue to preach your science is perfect because it relies on empirical evidence rather than addressing the good or ill of the public policy of teaching it and only it or allowing for other interpretations of the why of the world.

Fine, that is what you believe. There is merit in what you believe. There is merit in what others believe. They argue that you do not consider the evidence empirical only because you are incapable of detecting it. The fault lies in you, not in the presence or absence of evidence.

But as long as you insist as hard as you do that science is right, even when it is wrong, the more you sound fanatical. Sorry, you just do.

516 Salamantis  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 11:57:47pm

re: #515 alexa kim

As I just commented in the new Overnight Thread, my reference to intelligent design was in the generic, not to the movement.

Salamantis, you continue to preach your science is perfect because it relies on empirical evidence rather than addressing the good or ill of the public policy of teaching it and only it or allowing for other interpretations of the why of the world.

I didn’t say that empirical science was perfect; of course it isn’t, and never will be, because the supply of things we do not know is inexhaustible. Each answer we obtain allows us to ask questions we could not have known to ask before. But arguments from ignorance fall flat here; just because there are things that we DON’T know doesn’t mean that there aren’t things that we DO know - and one of the things we DO know is that evolutionary theory is valid, solid, sound and empirically supported science. It ain’t a popularity contest; the ancient world wasn’t a flat disc circled by the sun that only morphed into a sun-circling sphere when public opinion changed. One cannot interpret away empirical facts, and while you are entitled to your own opinions, you are NOT entitled to your own facts. The facts are the same for everyone, whether they choose to acknowledge them or not. It simple CANNOT be good public policy to teach untestable metaphysical contentions or religious dogmas as if they were empirical facts. It cannot be good public policy for the state to systematically lie to our kids by teaching them the myths of which we are fond as if they were truths. And whose myths? There are as many different myths as there are faiths, and they do not agree.

Fine, that is what you believe. There is merit in what you believe. There is merit in what others believe. They argue that you do not consider the evidence empirical only because you are incapable of detecting it. The fault lies in you, not in the presence or absence of evidence.

It’s not a matter of BELIEF; that only manifests in the ABSENCE of supporting empirical evidence; in its PRESENCE, we are talking KNOWLEDGE. And empirical evidence is not subjective (therein lies the realm of private revelation), but INTERsubjective, capable of being perceived by anyone under identical circumstances. I can’t believer you’re honestly trying to maintain that it’s the entire scientific edifice’s fault that the metaphysical is impossible to detect via physical means.

But as long as you insist as hard as you do that science is right, even when it is wrong, the more you sound fanatical. Sorry, you just do.

No, it is fanatical to maintain a contention is empirically the case in the ABSENCE of supporting empirical evidence, and even in the face of evidence that FALSIFIES and CONTRADICTS the contention in question. Maintaining that a contention is empirically the case in the PRESENCE of supporting empirical evidence is merely to acknowledge the facticity of observed phenomena.

517 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 15, 2009 12:00:38am
518 Mr Secul  Sun, Feb 15, 2009 2:09:18am

re: #33 MandyManners

Don’t these people see that SCIENCE makes it possible to track a hurricane?

I think they see science as just another religion.

519 Mr Secul  Sun, Feb 15, 2009 2:56:39am

re: #291 Dammits Dad

It does not need to be a science class, just don’t ban it from schools. Besides I am and never been a big fan of Mr Darwin. And no I did not directly evolve from a monkey.

I’m sure that neither of your parents were monkeys.

OTOH you are descended from apes. The best evidence for this is that you are an ape, your parents are apes, their parents are apes.

You are also descended from mammals. The best evidence for this is that your parents are mammals, their parents are mammals.

You are also descended from vertebrates, your parents are vertebrates, their parents are vertebrates.

You are an animal not a plant or a rock or a moonbeam.

You may believe that you are more than an animal. This may be so but you still eat, still dump and, in time, your animal body will die.

All those things are facts whether you like them or not.

If you have a problem with them then direct those problems to God. Ask him why he gave you an ape’s body. Ask him why he didn’t fashion your body out of gold or crystal.

520 mbpaul  Sun, Feb 15, 2009 7:00:32am

I made a huge mistake last night by not continuing to finish what I was going to say and I hope I don’t get in even more trouble from this post. I was going to say that really an issue like this is so far beneath my radar and a lot of other people. After the passage of the abortion that is the Generational Theft Act of 2009 and the other acts of theft that Herr Osama Obama will do, I really just can’t get excited about ID, either for or against. Now I’m going to go, hope and pray that Mr. Johnson doesn’t ban me and go crawl back in bed and catch up on all the sleep I missed this week and hope I’m not getting sick. I can’t afford to miss any days of work this week. Take care everyone. :)

521 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 15, 2009 7:06:53am

re: #511 alexa kim

Again, frankly, I do not have any problem holding both evolution and intelligent design at the same time. I do not see them as mutually exclusive

Perhaps you are confusing ID with Theistic evolution. ID’s purpose is to reject evolution, so ID and evolution are mutually exclusive. Theistic evolution, on the other hand, accepts evolution and God both because accepting evolution doesn’t conflict with believing in God. It is not ID that is the happy go between, thought the founders of the movement would like you to think it is.

522 funky chicken  Sun, Feb 15, 2009 9:01:43am

Hey, Our Lord and Savior the Holy Obamassiah just dissed Las Vegas. I suggest these scientific organizations hold their conventions here. Since The One’s slam, several national companies have cancelled their Vegas conventions, so I’d guess a savvy booking agent could get a hell of a deal for new bookings.

If you have State Farm insurance, you might want to call your agent or the national 800 number to bitch that they cancelled their Vegas convention because of The One’s idiotic comment, if you’re so inclined.

523 funky chicken  Sun, Feb 15, 2009 9:03:50am

re: #512 Sloppy

SLC

524 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 15, 2009 9:07:54am

re: #520 mbpaul

I think perhaps it is just possible that the election result we got was based, in part, because of the sheer number of people who are unable to think critically and logically, because actual education has been replaced with touchy-feeliness.

If anything, science classes should be made more rigorous, not less so by inserting non-science into the coursework.

Many parents, it seems, are too lazy to teach their children religion at home or through their church, which is where that belongs, and are perfectly willing to allow the government to take this over by allowing ID/Creationism into schools in lieu of real science.

And the result will be more generations of Americans unable to think critically or logically.

525 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 15, 2009 9:48:38am

re: #520 mbpaul

I made a huge mistake last night by not continuing to finish what I was going to say and I hope I don’t get in even more trouble from this post. I was going to say that really an issue like this is so far beneath my radar and a lot of other people. After the passage of the abortion that is the Generational Theft Act of 2009 and the other acts of theft that Herr Osama Obama will do, I really just can’t get excited about ID, either for or against. Now I’m going to go, hope and pray that Mr. Johnson doesn’t ban me and go crawl back in bed and catch up on all the sleep I missed this week and hope I’m not getting sick. I can’t afford to miss any days of work this week. Take care everyone. :)

Right. Well, while it’s underneath your radar because you think it’s so trivial and unimportant, creationists have passed legislation to sneak intelligent design into schools in several states, and have legislation pending in at least 10 more.

But not to worry. Just roll over and go back to sleep.

526 BLBfootballs  Sun, Feb 15, 2009 10:09:25am

I think SICB is making a big mistake. Want to oppose ID theory? Then hold the convention in New Orleans and thumb your nose at Gov. Jindal and the legislature. Create and welcome the media storm around the convention and use it to attack ID and the science education law. Isolating Louisianans from real science isn’t going to help the pro-science effort there.

527 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 15, 2009 10:24:20am

re: #526 BLBfootballs

I think SICB is making a big mistake. Want to oppose ID theory? Then hold the convention in New Orleans and thumb your nose at Gov. Jindal and the legislature. Create and welcome the media storm around the convention and use it to attack ID and the science education law. Isolating Louisianans from real science isn’t going to help the pro-science effort there.

It isn’t the SICB who is isolating Louisianans from real science — it’s Bobby Jindal, the Discovery Institute, and the clueless La. legislature who passed this horrible bill.

I think the SICB is doing exactly the right thing.

528 lrsshadow  Sun, Feb 15, 2009 11:10:46am

Ugh, what a mess. Here is what I think the problems is, and I am not an expert on the subject either way;

There is a big difference between the theory of evolution, for which there is an abundance of empirical data, and the religion of Darwinism. Now Darwin was a smart guy was able to piece together, what many already new, that animals and people are tied to heredity and there are generational variations, and over time they can evolve to suit their enviroment.

People could generally accept this as it was easy to identify with every day life observations. This eventually turned into the theory of evolution.

People for the most part, were ok with a world that changed, animals, plants, and people that evolve over time. However the problem came in when this theory of evolution was expanded by Darwin into the religion known as Darwinism. With out any empirical evidence, Darwin applied the theory of evolution with a wide brush to explain away all religion, the creation of the universe and the life in it.

If it were possible to teach evolution without teaching Darwinism Religion, many people still only see the stigma.

This is why a claim can be made, if schools are going to teach the Darwinism Religion then they should teach other forms of creation theory.

I think we would be served best to keep the theory of evolution tied to its abundance of empirical data, that animals and plant do evolve over time. Not teach that all life has evolved from nothing, because, really there is no data to support any of the creation beliefs, ….. and I guess that is why they call it faith, thus it is a religious topic and therefor all the theories of creation should be taught in religious classes. That goes for ID, Darwinism, Hinduism, Scientific Materialist, Judaism, Atheism, etc.

And just teach the theory of evolution in science class……..

529 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 15, 2009 11:33:45am

re: #528 lrsshadow

Ugh, what a mess. Here is what I think the problems is, and I am not an expert on the subject either way;

There is a big difference between the theory of evolution, for which there is an abundance of empirical data, and the religion of Darwinism. Now Darwin was a smart guy was able to piece together, what many already new, that animals and people are tied to heredity and there are generational variations, and over time they can evolve to suit their enviroment.

People could generally accept this as it was easy to identify with every day life observations. This eventually turned into the theory of evolution.

People for the most part, were ok with a world that changed, animals, plants, and people that evolve over time. However the problem came in when this theory of evolution was expanded by Darwin into the religion known as Darwinism. With out any empirical evidence, Darwin applied the theory of evolution with a wide brush to explain away all religion, the creation of the universe and the life in it.

If it were possible to teach evolution without teaching Darwinism Religion, many people still only see the stigma.

This is why a claim can be made, if schools are going to teach the Darwinism Religion then they should teach other forms of creation theory.

I think we would be served best to keep the theory of evolution tied to its abundance of empirical data, that animals and plant do evolve over time. Not teach that all life has evolved from nothing, because, really there is no data to support any of the creation beliefs, ….. and I guess that is why they call it faith, thus it is a religious topic and therefor all the theories of creation should be taught in religious classes. That goes for ID, Darwinism, Hinduism, Scientific Materialist, Judaism, Atheism, etc.

And just teach the theory of evolution in science class……..

“Not an expert’ is the understatement of the millennium. Geez Louise; have you ever even READ the man? There IS NO fucking ‘Darwinist religion’! Darwin never suggested anything remotely like that in ANY of his books! He was a SCIENTIST, for pity’s sake, not a Messiah! And a scientist was all he ever CLAIMED to be.

People are gonna have to work overtime today if they aspire to exceed the sheer and comprehensively clueless ignorance of your post.

530 alexa kim  Sun, Feb 15, 2009 6:02:04pm

re: #516 Salamantis
This debate has raged for a long time, and probably always will. Life’s too short to put up with being held in open contempt by anyone over this subject. I’m leaving it at that.

531 Salamantis  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 12:08:24am

re: #530 alexa kim

This debate has raged for a long time, and probably always will. Life’s too short to put up with being held in open contempt by anyone over this subject. I’m leaving it at that.

And I’m returning your gratuitous down-ding. If you didn’t want it to be perceived as gratuitous, you should have made some kind of argument against the facts or logic in my post - but you didn’t.

532 Yashmak  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 9:38:27am

re: #528 lrsshadow


There is a big difference between the theory of evolution, for which there is an abundance of empirical data, and the religion of Darwinism. .

I challenge you to find me ANYONE who worships Darwin. There is no such religion.


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