I do detest all offices — all, at least, that are held on a political tenure. And I want nothing to do with politicians. Their hearts wither away, and die out of their bodies. Their consciences are turned to india-rubber, or to some substance as black as that, and which will stretch as much.
— Nathaniel Hawthorne
2 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:20:21pm |
ArchangelMichael, would you please post that vid now?
| 4 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:20:32pm |
Speaking of the office...
| 7 |
Neutral President Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:25:23pm |
re: #2 Dark_Falcon
ArchangelMichael, would you please post that vid now?
Its #953 on the last thread but I'll repost here.
Background: Every year since 2001 there is a rather large Vampire or Zombie themed party on the Saturday evening during the San Diego Comic Con. This party is put on by some friends of mine involved with the local goth and techno club scenes. DJs I used to work with at a club back in 2002, are often the DJs for this party. It is a little risque, and has a bit of a fetish-party slant to it, but it's not over the top by any means. If anyone saw Elijah Wood on the tonight show last week, he talked about this party specifically but he said it was a bondage party or something... which was an exaggeration itself. I was there when the cast of Lord of the Rings stopped in and there was nothing going on that should have disturbed any reasonable person's delicate sensibilities. Anyway... Apparently an Alex Jones kook-a-like that has a radio show in Chicago picked up an invite to the party when he went to the SD ComicCon. He was on the Alex Jones show to talk about it and hilarity ensued.
The relevant section starts at 6:35 in this video. Everything before it is usual Alex Jones kookery but he talks about Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck so it's good for some laughs.
The people are 20 and 30 somethings wearing costumes, listening to industrial and techno music, and getting drunk. They aren't vampires or shape shifting aliens (like I needed to clarify that).
| 9 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:28:37pm |
I do detest all offices — all, at least, that are held on a political tenure. And I want nothing to do with politicians. Their hearts wither away, and die out of their bodies. Their consciences are turned to india-rubber, or to some substance as black as that, and which will stretch as much.— Nathaniel Hawthorne
I was considering this earlier. Their is a hierarchy of offices...
1)Modern politicians in democracies at least have to work for it.
2) Then we have guys like the Pope and the Dali lama . I'm sure there's political positioning and favors to be swapped but it seems mostly about connections, etc.
3) Next we have military/religious dictators. It does take work, effort and some political positioning. Brute force is the key but it does require effort.
4) the bottom of the list for me is monarchs who inherit leadership by nothing more than birthright. I'm not sure if there's anything lower on the scale.
| 10 |
Neutral President Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:30:24pm |
re: #8 Dark_Falcon
Thank you.
My favorite part of the whole thing is Alex Jones getting really quiet and cueing up the commercial when Mancow starts talking about people getting in his dreams. If Alex Jones thinks you are a kook, does it create a naked Wingularity and suck the you in?
| 11 |
MisterCookie Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:31:52pm |
Well in honor of the various conspiracy kooks I have encountered lately, I've decided I might pick up a copy of Deus Ex off of Steam. Can any lizards confirm if the game is worth a buy?
| 12 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:32:16pm |
re: #7 ArchangelMichael
Aw, Hell! I just saw who it is. Mancow Muller is indeed a Chicago radio host, he's actually very well known. I actually held him in somewhat decent regard until now. It seems he's fallen prey to the Bad Craziness.
| 13 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:33:23pm |
re: #10 ArchangelMichael
My favorite part of the whole thing is Alex Jones getting really quiet and cueing up the commercial when Mancow starts talking about people getting in his dreams. If Alex Jones thinks you are a kook, does it create a naked Wingularity and suck the you in?
To be fair, being outlandish has always been part of Mancow's act. But I think he's become trapped in his persona.
| 14 |
EastSider Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:33:31pm |
At the suggestion of someone on the previous thread, thought i'd repost a comment of mine here aiming for some discussion:
Charles et al,
I hardly ever post here, but lurk pretty much daily.
I just wanted to say I appreciate the rationality of this site in recent months. It is really refreshing to read a conservative point of view that doesn't fly into hysterics when Obama chooses his clothes for the day.
Two thoughts:
1) From a conservative point of view, the recent craziness has a bit of "boy who cried wolf" flavor to it. If/when Obama does propose something truly crazy (Nat'l healthcare notwithstanding) the hysteria/opposition is going to seem old hat. That is unless there's a part II of this strategy us laymen are not aware of.
2) From a national security point of view--I think one has to be concerned that continually scaring people and rousing them into a fervor is going to eventually lead to violence. It only takes one nut with a gun to do something crazy. If that happens, you're going to see a lot of right wing leaders racing to wash their hands of the months of panic they helped create.
Thoughts?
| 15 |
traderjoe9 Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:34:03pm |
Why is the right so desperate for reasons to hate Obama? Just look at his Israel policy and run with that.
That man will never regain my trust after the Cairo speech.
| 16 |
Neutral President Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:34:18pm |
re: #12 Dark_Falcon
Aw, Hell! I just saw who it is. Mancow Muller is indeed a Chicago radio host, he's actually very well known. I actually held him in somewhat decent regard until now. It seems he's fallen prey to the Bad Craziness.
Extreme bad craziness.
All my friends on Facebook that go to this party are laughing their asses off passing this video around.
| 17 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:37:46pm |
re: #1 rwmofo
Head off to bed if you're feeling sleepy, don't let us keep you up.
| 18 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:37:53pm |
re: #9 Killgore Trout
2 and 3 on that list are interchangeable. I'm not sure who I respect more.
| 19 |
Neutral President Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:39:29pm |
re: #11 MisterCookie
Well in honor of the various conspiracy kooks I have encountered lately, I've decided I might pick up a copy of Deus Ex off of Steam. Can any lizards confirm if the game is worth a buy?
Deus Ex is, in my opinion, one of the best video games of the RPG-FPS hybrid genre ever made. It's graphics are quite dated now though but I think if you can get past that you will enjoy it. It also takes just about every crackpot conspiracy theory that's ever been floated and weave them into a coherent storyline that should embarrass the writers of Hollywood tripe.
| 20 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:39:51pm |
re: #16 ArchangelMichael
Extreme bad craziness.
All my friends on Facebook that go to this party are laughing their asses off passing this video around.
At a guess, i'd say Alex Jones has never been to a major gaming, anime, or comics convention. If he had, he wouldn't be shocked. Amoung the sights at this year's GenCon in Indianapolis were Sith cheerleaders and a Imperial Stormtrooper in a kilt.
| 21 |
austin_blue Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:40:13pm |
re: #10 ArchangelMichael
My favorite part of the whole thing is Alex Jones getting really quiet and cueing up the commercial when Mancow starts talking about people getting in his dreams. If Alex Jones thinks you are a kook, does it create a naked Wingularity and suck the you in?
The amazing thing to me is that Alex is 34 years old. He must have been gargling Brillo pads for the past 15 years or just screaming at the top of his lungs in everyday conversation. I guess I'll bet on the latter.
| 22 |
Neutral President Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:41:41pm |
re: #21 austin_blue
The amazing thing to me is that Alex is 34 years old. He must have been gargling Brillo pads for the past 15 years or just screaming at the top of his lungs in everyday conversation. I guess I'll bet on the latter.
There are extreme überkooks who think that Alex Jones is actually Bill Hicks and that Hicks faked his death to become him.
I couldn't make this up if I tried.
| 23 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:42:19pm |
re: #15 traderjoe9
Why is the right so desperate for reasons to hate Obama?
I'm no genius, but I think rational opposition expressed with clear, sane, detailed alternatives would win over more folks than desperate hatred and kookspiracy garbage.
But what would I know. I'm just a RINO.
| 24 |
BARACK THE VOTE Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:42:21pm |
re: #13 Dark_Falcon
To be fair, being outlandish has always been part of Mancow's act. But I think he's become trapped in his persona.
DF, isn't he the guy who had himself waterboarded on air and then declared waterboarding was torture? I seem to remember some stunt like that
| 25 |
Neutral President Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:43:20pm |
re: #21 austin_blue
The amazing thing to me is that Alex is 34 years old. He must have been gargling Brillo pads for the past 15 years or just screaming at the top of his lungs in everyday conversation. I guess I'll bet on the latter.
He screams a lot.
His best movie role... playing himself:
| 27 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:44:14pm |
re: #11 MisterCookie
Well in honor of the various conspiracy kooks I have encountered lately, I've decided I might pick up a copy of Deus Ex off of Steam. Can any lizards confirm if the game is worth a buy?
Oh! Hell! Yes!
How much are they asking?
| 28 |
esch Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:46:45pm |
Huh. I have a copy of Deus Ex I never loaded. Might have to fire it up.
| 29 |
MJ Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:47:26pm |
On Wed. Charles posted Glen Becks lunatic rant about Rockefeller Center.
Keith Obermann, who normally turns my stomach as much as Beck, did have a funny response to Beck's craziness which is worth watching:
Keith Olbermann Refutes Glenn Beck's "Communist" Rockefeller Center
| 30 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:48:57pm |
re: #19 ArchangelMichael
Deus Ex is, in my opinion, one of the best video games of the RPG-FPS hybrid genre ever made. It's graphics are quite dated now though but I think if you can get past that you will enjoy it. It also takes just about every crackpot conspiracy theory that's ever been floated and weave them into a coherent storyline that should embarrass the writers of Hollywood tripe.
QFT.
The graphics are dated, but more than forgivable when considering the quality of the story line and gameplay. I still have a copy that I spin every so often.
| 31 |
Gus Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:49:58pm |
re: #7 ArchangelMichael
This afternoon I was doing some research on Van Jones. In the end, after watching this, I've listened to:
Amy Goodman
Van Jones
Alex Jones
Mancow
I think I need some serious therapy now.
| 32 |
KingKenrod Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:50:16pm |
re: #11 MisterCookie
Well in honor of the various conspiracy kooks I have encountered lately, I've decided I might pick up a copy of Deus Ex off of Steam. Can any lizards confirm if the game is worth a buy?
It's excellent, one of my favorite games.
| 33 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:50:38pm |
re: #28 esch
Huh. I have a copy of Deus Ex I never loaded. Might have to fire it up.
If you're running WinXP, you may have to set the "Windows Compatibility" to Windows 98 to make it run properly.
| 34 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:50:56pm |
re: #24 iceweasel
DF, isn't he the guy who had himself waterboarded on air and then declared waterboarding was torture? I seem to remember some stunt like that
Bravo, iceweasel! Yes, that's the same fellow. He's a longtime radio host here in Chicago. He actually shocks me here, because he seems to make Alex Jones look sane by comparison.
| 35 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:51:46pm |
re: #34 Dark_Falcon
A Herculean effort, to be sure.
| 36 |
MisterCookie Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:51:55pm |
re: #27 Slumbering Behemoth
Ten bucks - they also got the sequel up on there. I'm tempted to buy since I just did a playthrough of System Shock 2 and I heard DE is very similar in mechanics.
Thanks for the responses guys.
| 37 |
esch Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:52:18pm |
re: #33 Slumbering Behemoth
Thanks.
I'm running Vista Ultimate, so if there are probs I may just throw it out in a VMWare XP instance. I've had really good luck with old games with Vista though.
| 38 |
BARACK THE VOTE Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:54:01pm |
re: #7 ArchangelMichael
The people are 20 and 30 somethings wearing costumes, listening to industrial and techno music, and getting drunk. They aren't vampires or shape shifting aliens (like I needed to clarify that).
My god, that was ... amazing. Thanks for posting that. The level of hysterical repression, projection, sex-phobia, and panic in it really does have to be experienced to be believed.
"It was very seductive...it was basically a mockery of everything good, decent, and wholesome..."
Then the fantasy about a Jessica Alba look alike (Who looks just like my wife!) putting the moves on him. But she's a shapeshifter.
"I had someone try to get into my dreams..."
Indeed, Mancow. Indeed. Let's start burning those witches again at the stake for making teh menfolk have those scary dreams about them,
It seriously is like the kind of hysteria and sexualised panic that informed the Malleus Maleficarium, the witchunters manual written in 1486.
| 39 |
Gus Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:54:03pm |
re: #29 MJ
On Wed. Charles posted Glen Becks lunatic rant about Rockefeller Center.
Keith Obermann, who normally turns my stomach as much as Beck, did have a funny response to Beck's craziness which is worth watching:Keith Olbermann Refutes Glenn Beck's "Communist" Rockefeller Center
Zombie psyops!
I see psychology is a recurring theme.
//
| 40 |
Neutral President Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:54:14pm |
re: #36 MisterCookie
Ten bucks - they also got the sequel up on there. I'm tempted to buy since I just did a playthrough of System Shock 2 and I heard DE is very similar in mechanics.
Thanks for the responses guys.
The original is excellent, the sequel... not so much. The graphics are better in the 2nd one but the story line and gameplay is subpar compared to the original.
| 42 |
KingKenrod Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:55:03pm |
re: #36 MisterCookie
Ten bucks - they also got the sequel up on there. I'm tempted to buy since I just did a playthrough of System Shock 2 and I heard DE is very similar in mechanics.
Thanks for the responses guys.
They are very similar games, both excellent. I think the game play, graphics, and character building in Deus Ex are a little better.
| 43 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:56:46pm |
re: #36 MisterCookie
It's worth the ten bucks, but you're gonna hate me when I tell you I bought a used hard copy for $1.99.
re: #37 esch
I don't know squat about Vista, so I can't advise. In XP, you don't need to run VM. Just left click on the shortcut, go to the "Compatibility" tab, and set compatibility to "Windows 98".
One of the easiest fixes for older, cranky games.
| 44 |
Gus Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:56:48pm |
re: #41 Sharmuta
He's a communist agent! Priceless.
I hate myself for siding with Olbermann.
Isaiah 2:4!
Communism!
//
| 45 |
traderjoe9 Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:57:48pm |
re: #23 Slumbering Behemoth
I'm no genius, but I think rational opposition expressed with clear, sane, detailed alternatives would win over more folks than desperate hatred and kookspiracy garbage.
But what would I know. I'm just a RINO.
I'm with you. The right is promoting conspiracy theories that won't get anywhere when they could just as effectively point out the things Obama IS getting it wrong, and the closest issue to my heart is Israel.
And, considering that a recent poll indicated that only 4% of Israelis believe Obama is pro-Israel...there is certainly something to discuss there.
| 46 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:59:47pm |
re: #38 iceweasel
My god, that was ... amazing. Thanks for posting that. The level of hysterical repression, projection, sex-phobia, and panic in it really does have to be experienced to be believed.
"It was very seductive...it was basically a mockery of everything good, decent, and wholesome..."
Then the fantasy about a Jessica Alba look alike (Who looks just like my wife!) putting the moves on him. But she's a shapeshifter.
"I had someone try to get into my dreams..."
Indeed, Mancow. Indeed. Let's start burning those witches again at the stake for making teh menfolk have those scary dreams about them,It seriously is like the kind of hysteria and sexualised panic that informed the Malleus Maleficarium, the witchunters manual written in 1486.
I just got to that part. I have to agree with you. Mancow has seriously thrown a rod to talk like he's talking.
| 47 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:00:44am |
BTW, everyone: A troll just showed up on number 1075 of the previous thread. If you've got the time, take a trip back and ding him down,
| 49 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:01:50am |
re: #29 MJ
On Wed. Charles posted Glen Becks lunatic rant about Rockefeller Center.
Keith Obermann, who normally turns my stomach as much as Beck, did have a funny response to Beck's craziness which is worth watching:Keith Olbermann Refutes Glenn Beck's "Communist" Rockefeller Center
Oh that's funny! He' referred to 1211 Avenue of the Americas that I pointed out the other night.
| 50 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:02:42am |
| 51 |
MJ Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:03:32am |
re: #41 Sharmuta
He's a communist agent! Priceless.
I hate myself for siding with Olbermann.
Yeah, me too, but it's entertaining. Beck needs Risperidone- his paranoia
is approaching the psychotic stage.
| 52 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:04:05am |
re: #44 Gus 802
Isaiah 2:4!
Communism!
//
Actually- that's the only snark keith missed- pointing out the Bible, but he did a great job. That was a serious bitch slap.
| 53 |
Fenway_Nation Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:04:10am |
re: #38 iceweasel
Hey hey HEY! Enough of those $50 words there...you were supposed to provide us some sort of socioeconomic rationale for the increasing popularity of snufftastic films like Wrong Turn, Hostel, Saw or The Hills Have Eyes re-make.
| 54 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:04:58am |
Finally finished AM's vid. At the very end, Mancow says he "put a dampening field in his bedroom" to keep people from "getting into his dreams". That line was utter insanity. I fully expect that the next time Mancow appears in public, he'll be wearing a tinfoil hat.
| 55 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:05:27am |
re: #51 MJ
Yeah, me too, but it's entertaining. Beck needs Risperidone- his paranoia
is approaching the psychotic stage.
Truly.
| 56 |
Neutral President Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:07:13am |
re: #38 iceweasel
I gets funnier every time I listen to it. I haven't gone to the party in a few years so I'm not sure what "famous" people were there who he thinks were "duped" into going.
My girlfriend is much more of a So-Con than a Fi-Con. So much that we don't discuss politics very often anymore since the complete flip-out on the right. She's also goes to church every Sunday unlike the agnostic heathen I am. That said, she's been to this party a couple of times, and was not at all offended or upset by anything there. I believe she said: "This is what happens when the nerds that were in the Math club in high school get money."
| 57 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:08:06am |
re: #52 Sharmuta
Actually- that's the only snark keith missed- pointing out the Bible, but he did a great job. That was a serious bitch slap.
It was pretty funny. I was reminded of Isaiah 2:4 and the Beck/communism meme that you mentioned the other night.
Then watching Alex Jones before saying he's part of a "psyops" conspiracy. Damn, there's a lot of crazy people out there and on the air.
| 58 |
Neutral President Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:09:20am |
re: #54 Dark_Falcon
Finally finished AM's vid. At the very end, Mancow says he "put a dampening field in his bedroom" to keep people from "getting into his dreams". That line was utter insanity. I fully expect that the next time Mancow appears in public, he'll be wearing a tinfoil hat.
I think a dampening field is a fancy name for aluminum-lined headwear.
| 59 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:10:10am |
re: #45 traderjoe9
Okay. I guess I misunderstood what you were getting at originally. Apologies for my snarkasim.
To be clear, I support Israel. Not for religious reasons, but because Israel is an ally of my country, and I fully believe in their right to sovereignty and their right to exist as a nation.
| 60 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:10:11am |
re: #29 MJ
That was great. Thanks for posting that.
i don't normally watch Olbermann, even though I agree with him usually, because he just irritates me so much. I typically read his special comment transcripts rather than watch a clip. Also, he's definitely a douchebag in his personal life, esp towards women, from the rumours I've heard.
This was totally worth watching though. Thanks.
| 61 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:11:21am |
re: #53 Fenway_Nation
Hey hey HEY! Enough of those $50 words there...you were supposed to provide us some sort of socioeconomic rationale for the increasing popularity of snufftastic films like Wrong Turn, Hostel, Saw or The Hills Have Eyes re-make.
Howdy, handsome!
Ok, in progress! ;)
| 62 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:11:52am |
re: #22 ArchangelMichael
There are extreme überkooks who think that Alex Jones is actually Bill Hicks and that Hicks faked his death to become him.
I couldn't make this up if I tried.
Ah, Bill. I knew him tangentially form some stand-up friends here in Austin. he died from pancreatic caner at too young an age. He was absolutely blistering about popular culture and the stupidity of public figures. Interestingly, neither Ultra-cons nor Ultra-libs could, generally, sit through one of his shows. He was an equal opportunity destroyer, although the majority of his invective was pushed against the right. His bit about the death of Jesse Helms was hilarious and cringe inducing.
Okay, here is the bit. Not safe for work. Not safe for home. Not safe if your are Conservative. Not safe if you have no sense of humor. Do not click on the link if you do not want to be totally offended. Alex Jones couldn't do this kind of brutal commentary if his life depended on it:
[Link: horsesass.org...]
| 63 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:11:58am |
re: #58 ArchangelMichael
I think a dampening field is a fancy name for aluminum-lined headwear.
Still, that would tough to sleep in while wearing. Most likely, Mancow lined the walls with foil. Loony.
| 64 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:12:47am |
re: #56 ArchangelMichael
I believe she said: "This is what happens when the nerds that were in the Math club in high school get money."
Ha! Perfect description. I always think of it that way myself...
| 65 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:13:19am |
re: #57 Gus 802
It was pretty funny. I was reminded of Isaiah 2:4 and the Beck/communism meme that you mentioned the other night.
Then watching Alex Jones before saying he's part of a "psyops" conspiracy. Damn, there's a lot of crazy people out there and on the air.
The plaque even said Isaiah II IV
Maybe it was the Roman numerals?
| 66 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:13:29am |
re: #62 austin_blue
Interesting, but I'll have to pass. Not my cup of tea.
| 67 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:14:10am |
re: #65 Sharmuta
The plaque even said Isaiah II IV
Maybe it was the Roman numerals?
It's all a Vatican plot.
/ Jones off
| 68 |
Neutral President Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:15:28am |
re: #67 Dark_Falcon
It's all a Vatican plot.
/ Jones off
No it's just Psy-Ops by Beck to divert attention away form the FEMA Camps.
/
| 69 |
MJ Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:15:30am |
Just noticed this:
MSNBC removes Buchanan column from site
Pat Buchanan has received a lot of criticism recently for his column marking the 70th anniversary of the Nazi invasion of Poland, where the conservative pundit questions whether Hitler has gotten a bum rap.By extension, MSNBC, where Buchanan is a commentator, has taken heat for promoting the column on its website. In the revisionist piece -- "Did Hitler Want War?" -- Buchanan argues that other countries, such as Poland, should be held responsible for the invasion, and later escalation of World War II. Hitler, he claims, wanted peace and wasn't out for world conquest.
David A. Harris, President of the National Jewish Democratic Council, condemned MSNBC's promotion of the "deplorable" column and urged that it be removed from MSNBC.com.
Well, now the network has pulled it. (Indeed, the old link is dead).
Harris, in second statement, said that "MSNBC took the responsible action and removed Pat Buchanan's column," while adding that "no worthy news organization should employ and promote a commentator who engages in such vile fiction."
An MSNBC spokesperson issued a statement to POLITICO: "An editorial decision was made to remove the column from msnbc.com. Pat is a contributor to MSNBC, his syndicated column does not speak for the network or represent the views of MSNBC"
[Link: www.memeorandum.com...]
But, of course, as long as MSNBC and NBC continues to employ a Nazi sympathizer as a commentator, the network will be tainted by his antisemitism.
| 70 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:15:36am |
re: #65 Sharmuta
The plaque even said Isaiah II IV
Maybe it was the Roman numerals?
You think he would figure that out considering his tendency to advertise his religiousness. But that's Beck. 100% loon, 100% fake.
| 71 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:16:37am |
re: #69 MJ
Just noticed this:
MSNBC removes Buchanan column from site
[Link: www.memeorandum.com...]
But, of course, as long as MSNBC and NBC continues to employ a Nazi sympathizer as a commentator, the network will be tainted by his antisemitism.
Excellent news! I know that Real Clear Politics pulled that article.
| 72 |
Fenway_Nation Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:18:27am |
re: #69 MJ
Buchanon serves their purpose in that they can trot him out as if to indicate that he is what the opposition to 0bama and his policies look like- ugly, vindictive hateful paleocons.
| 73 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:19:50am |
| 74 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:21:56am |
re: #70 Gus 802
You think he would figure that out considering his tendency to advertise his religiousness. But that's Beck. 100% loon, 100% fake.
I assumed he doesn't think.
| 75 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:22:14am |
re: #53 Fenway_Nation
Hey hey HEY! Enough of those $50 words there...you were supposed to provide us some sort of socioeconomic rationale for the increasing popularity of snufftastic films like Wrong Turn, Hostel, Saw or The Hills Have Eyes re-make.
Ok, well, we were talking about how the rise of the slasher film in the 70's coincided with changing sexual mores, Roe v Wade (73), the woman's movement, and fears about unbridled sexual activity and promiscuity...I'd said earlier that horror/sci fi can both be seen as reflecting the unease and anxieties of a culture albeit in very symbolic ways. (all art does this, but I think it's peculiarly apparent in those genres.) So for example the rise of the 50's bug movies (and godzilla movies) reflected fears about a nuclear age, for example.
Someone else pointed out that teenagers make up the bulk of the audience for these films, especially horror, and some of that is because it's deeply related to sex and sexual anxieties and teenagers are, quite naturally, obsessed with those. There's a reason why they're great date movies, right? It's not just the huddling together, but the thump of the heart and the rush of adrenaline because fear and violence are as deeply embedded in human nature as sex. All are as essential to the species.
Hills have eyes is a remake from the 70's, and quite a few of the classic 70's horror films have recently been remade, like TX chainsaw massacre. Last House on the Left. These movies were actually far more graphic in their 70's incarnations, believe it or not. And one reason for that, I think, is that Vietnam brought violence into our livingrooms in a way we'd not seen before. The level for acceptable onscreen violence dramatically changed.
Wrong Turn is a movie about the old standard: cannibal hillbillies. It's really an update of movies like Deliverance or TX chain saw massacre and represents if anything urban and suburban fear of the rural.
Hostel and its cognates, the torture porn genre, is much more interesting. More on that in part 2.
| 76 |
traderjoe9 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:23:02am |
re: #59 Slumbering Behemoth
Okay. I guess I misunderstood what you were getting at originally. Apologies for my snarkasim.
To be clear, I support Israel. Not for religious reasons, but because Israel is an ally of my country, and I fully believe in their right to sovereignty and their right to exist as a nation.
It's fine.
Virtually everyone on LGF supports Israel but I hardly think anyone here does it mainly for religious reasons.
I love the United States, but I never could have imagined how far it would decline in regards to its policy with Israel, and it's only September. So far it's been only talk and nothing concrete, but if his rhetoric is any indication, Obama doesn't share any of your stated beliefs.
Around the world, the Jewish people were persecuted for centuries, and anti-Semitism in Europe culminated in an unprecedented Holocaust. Tomorrow, I will visit Buchenwald, which was part of a network of camps where Jews were enslaved, tortured, shot and gassed to death by the Third Reich. Six million Jews were killed -- more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today. Denying that fact is baseless, it is ignorant, and it is hateful. Threatening Israel with destruction -- or repeating vile stereotypes about Jews -- is deeply wrong, and only serves to evoke in the minds of Israelis this most painful of memories while preventing the peace that the people of this region deserve.On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people -- Muslims and Christians -- have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. For more than 60 years they've endured the pain of dislocation. Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. They endure the daily humiliations -- large and small -- that come with occupation. So let there be no doubt: The situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable. And America will not turn our backs on the legitimate Palestinian aspiration for dignity, opportunity, and a state of their own. (Applause.)
This should be plastered everywhere. The most disgusting, vile thing to come out of his mouth. I throw up a little every time I read it.
| 77 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:24:59am |
re: #74 Sharmuta
I assumed he doesn't think.
I'm still perplexed that people take him seriously. Or that he informs people to what they wouldn't know. For instance that whole thing about STORM that he brought up last week regarding Van Jones. I found the STORM "manifesto" months ago within minutes of hearing about Van Jones. They're so behind the learning curve even for what they purport to do.
| 78 |
pat Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:25:32am |
If you all hate Beck so much why do you watch him? I do not watch Olberman or Mathews and similar nuts. I don't get it. I have seen some excellent guests on Beck waiting for the news, but I turn to another channel when he starts getting...emotional. But many of you seem to watch him all the time.
| 79 |
pat Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:27:29am |
In fact i would hardly know of Van Jones etc if you all did not direct me to look him up.
| 81 |
freetoken Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:28:00am |
re: #78 pat
If you all hate Beck so much why do you watch him?
You're assuming a lot here. I for one don't even have a TV, and the only time I see Beck is when I watch the videos on Youtube or posted on websites.
| 83 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:29:28am |
re: #78 pat
Birchers suck. People who support Birchers suck. Beck supports Birchers. Ipso Facto, Beck sucks.
| 84 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:30:05am |
Part 2:
Hostel came out in 2005, and we should remember the director was also very young, 26 i think. Remember that for people this age, they're really coming of age in an era where 9-11 is old news, the idea that people hate america and americans is old news, and the world, especially eastern europe, is perceived as very frightening, very anti-american. Being an american student abroad isn't friendly any more. I know many people who have sewn canadian flags onto their equipment because they couldnt handle the reflexive hostility they got for being american.
Hostel expresses that. Remember that it's part of the plot that the torturers in question pay more for an American. They want Americans. Because Americans are perceived both as more valuable and as more worthy of torture. So I'd argue that the Hostel series expresses the anxieties of being American and young in a world increasingly hostile to Americans.
And it's also about sex and the fear of it, as it's sex that lures the guys there in the first place.
Saw was originally an aussie short film (9 minutes), later developed into the full length we know and the franchise.
My belief is that the torture porn genre expresses not much other than our increasing desensitisation to violence.
| 85 |
pat Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:30:57am |
Then if you don't watch him why are you experts on him? I don't get it. I have never seen more than 10 minutes of his show...a week. Some seems informational and some seems creepy by my taste. But so are lots of others.
| 86 |
TheMatrix31 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:32:39am |
That last thread was ridiculous and exhausting.
| 87 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:33:47am |
re: #85 pat
I don't have to eat McDonald's hamburgers everyday to know they are crap. Occasional samples are enough to prove it.
| 88 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:34:20am |
re: #78 pat
If you all hate Beck so much why do you watch him? I do not watch Olberman or Mathews and similar nuts. I don't get it. I have seen some excellent guests on Beck waiting for the news, but I turn to another channel when he starts getting...emotional. But many of you seem to watch him all the time.
re: #78 pat
If you all hate Beck so much why do you watch him? I do not watch Olberman or Mathews and similar nuts. I don't get it. I have seen some excellent guests on Beck waiting for the news, but I turn to another channel when he starts getting...emotional. But many of you seem to watch him all the time.
I don't have cable so I can't speak for others, but it may deal with the fascination of the obomination- the tendency to slow down on the highway to see a wreck.
| 89 |
pat Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:34:33am |
You know i actually attended a Birchter panel in college. there were well over 500 people there. I was a leftist, to say the least. I liked the Libertarian aspects of some of it. The conspiratorial stuff was a bit far fetched. Kind of like we used to hear at the SDS teach ins.
| 90 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:35:49am |
re: #84 iceweasel
Good analysis, iceweasel. I think you're on to something. Anti-Americanism is certainly part of what keeps me at home. I don't react to that kind of hostility at all well, so I don't go where I'll encounter it. I also don't like to go where I not really welcome.
| 91 |
TheMatrix31 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:36:28am |
re: #88 austin_blue
I don't have cable so I can't speak for others, but it may deal with the fascination of the obomination- the tendency to slow down on the highway to see a wreck.
And it's people like you who cause traffic on the road!
/sarcasm, but not really I guess
| 92 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:37:39am |
| 93 |
Fenway_Nation Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:38:26am |
re: #84 iceweasel
But weren't some of the victims in Hostel Japanese or from Western Europe?
| 94 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:39:20am |
re: #92 Slumbering Behemoth
My bad. I misread your post I quoted, Pat. I apologize.
| 95 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:39:23am |
re: #91 TheMatrix31
And it's people like you who cause traffic on the road!
/sarcasm, but not really I guess
Nah, I ignore wrecks. Click the nic and see why.
| 97 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:40:33am |
re: #84 iceweasel
Worst example of torture porn ever IMO is "The Martyrs", as you know from our previous discussion of it. Totally relentless and deeply sick movie that tries to justify itself at the end by revealing itself to be a 'moral' about the lengths religious people will go to in hurting others for the sake of a glimpse of eternity. But what we are really left with is an extremely nasty impression of the lengths film makers will go to to create a shocking effect.
| 99 |
Neutral President Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:41:24am |
re: #97 Jimmah
But what we are really left with is an extremely nasty impression of the lengths film makers will go to to create a shocking effect.
And to make a buck.
| 100 |
TheMatrix31 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:43:10am |
re: #95 austin_blue
Nah, I ignore wrecks. Click the nic and see why.
Wish more people in LA thought that way then.
| 101 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:43:18am |
re: #90 Dark_Falcon
Good analysis, iceweasel. I think you're on to something. Anti-Americanism is certainly part of what keeps me at home. I don't react to that kind of hostility at all well, so I don't go where I'll encounter it. I also don't like to go where I not really welcome.
Cheers, DF. Hostel most definitely is about the sense that the rest of the world is hostile to Americans.
And 2002-2006 or so, it was very true. Even in countries that were nominally friendly with the US, such as the UK, the reflexive anti-Americanism was extremely strong.
On the other hand, I was in Turkey not long after 9-11, and you wouldn't believe how friendly people were to me because they were so glad to see a western tourist. They would introduce themselves to me on the street and invite me to their homes. They were desperate to explain that they were Muslims but not extremists, and that the Islamic fundamentalists do not represent their religion-- or even a religion at all but more a fanatical repressive ideology.
| 102 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:43:30am |
I've got to go to bed. I have to be at a meeting in less than 6 hours. Goodnight all.
| 103 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:43:41am |
re: #78 pat
If you all hate Beck so much why do you watch him? I do not watch Olberman or Mathews and similar nuts. I don't get it. I have seen some excellent guests on Beck waiting for the news, but I turn to another channel when he starts getting...emotional. But many of you seem to watch him all the time.
I don't hate Beck but he certainly doesn't deserve any respect. You also might have noticed that he is recurring theme here at LGF and pointing out his clownish antics so don't expect to come here and see the Glenn Beck cheering squad. You should also know by know that Glenn Beck berated Charles on one of his segments once and then proceeded to compare himself to Martin Luther King while feigning tears once again.
| 104 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:44:02am |
re: #102 Dark_Falcon
I've got to go to bed. I have to be at a meeting in less than 6 hours. Goodnight all.
Later DF.
| 105 |
pat Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:44:18am |
re: #92 Slumbering Behemoth
Actually I often do not pay attention to what is going on here very much. Sorry. I comment and link to things interesting. If I am too slow witted for you, I apologize. Unfortunately I doubt things will change.
| 106 |
Neutral President Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:44:30am |
re: #102 Dark_Falcon
I've got to go to bed. I have to be at a meeting in less than 6 hours. Goodnight all.
Meeting on Saturday on Labor Day weekend!
Shenanigans!
| 107 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:44:37am |
re: #101 iceweasel
Cheers, DF. Hostel most definitely is about the sense that the rest of the world is hostile to Americans.
And 2002-2006 or so, it was very true. Even in countries that were nominally friendly with the US, such as the UK, the reflexive anti-Americanism was extremely strong.
On the other hand, I was in Turkey not long after 9-11, and you wouldn't believe how friendly people were to me because they were so glad to see a western tourist. They would introduce themselves to me on the street and invite me to their homes. They were desperate to explain that they were Muslims but not extremists, and that the Islamic fundamentalists do not represent their religion-- or even a religion at all but more a fanatical repressive ideology.
We'll talk more about this tomorrow, but I do want to continue this discussion.
| 108 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:46:40am |
re: #93 Fenway_Nation
But weren't some of the victims in Hostel Japanese or from Western Europe?
Yes, absolutely-- but they weren't the main characters, and it was emphasised that Americans were the victims most sought after.
Some of the movie is about expressing fears about Eastern Europe and the rampant lawlessness there esp at the time-- Kind of a whole Eastern Europe ripping off gullible naive westerners, sort of thing.
| 110 |
freetoken Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:47:49am |
re: #98 TheMatrix31
Oh my... what has this country come to?
| 111 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:47:57am |
re: #100 TheMatrix31
Wish more people in LA thought that way then.
If it's not in danger of blowing up, it's not my problem.
| 112 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:48:34am |
re: #102 Dark_Falcon
I've got to go to bed. I have to be at a meeting in less than 6 hours. Goodnight all.
Night, my man. Sleep well.
| 113 |
freetoken Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:49:11am |
re: #109 Kurt Angle
It is unwelcome to link to Manning here.
| 114 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:51:03am |
And that is it for me! Good night to all Lizards and all the ships at sea!
| 116 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:51:17am |
re: #109 Kurt Angle
You're a fool, attempting to play those well practiced at sniffing out bullshit for fools.
Registered since: Aug 4, 2007 at 6:24 pm
No. of comments posted: 1
No. of links posted: 0
| 117 |
Fenway_Nation Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:51:35am |
Oh sweet nectar! Found me a travel-sized thing of Bacardi in the back of the cupboard just now...
| 118 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:54:31am |
re: #115 Kurt Angle
sorry I'm new.
Two years and thirty-one days new? With tonight being your first comment? I don't buy it.
Make your case.
| 119 |
TheMatrix31 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:55:25am |
| 121 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:57:13am |
re: #120 Kurt Angle
Please take your links to the racist Pastor Manning elsewhere.
| 122 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:57:20am |
re: #97 Jimmah
Worst example of torture porn ever IMO is "The Martyrs", as you know from our previous discussion of it. Totally relentless and deeply sick movie that tries to justify itself at the end by revealing itself to be a 'moral' about the lengths religious people will go to in hurting others for the sake of a glimpse of eternity. But what we are really left with is an extremely nasty impression of the lengths film makers will go to to create a shocking effect.
Yes. That movie definitely had no redeeming virtues whatsoever, and the second half is an extended exercise in misogyny and torture. There is also some bullshit rationale provided about how 'young women make the best martyrs' and the funny thing is that is true, in a way-- studies on pain have shown that women are better at enduring pain longer than men are. Which makes sense when you realise it's an evolutionary adaptation to childbirth.
I'm a huge fan of horror movies and I can probably find some redeeming quality in many of them, even extreme ones, in terms of something it's reflecting about the culture. But not that one, at all. It made me sick.
But there are many very explicit French horror movies. It's incredibly interesting to compare the horror films from different countries because they reflect different anxieties and fears. French, Thai, Spanish, Chinese--
they're all different. british too. Some of the best horror I've seen lately is coming from elsewhere.
The movie The Strangers was based on the French film Ils (Them)
Calvaire is a french film that-- is like the French Deliverance, I guess I'd say.
And there is one called "Inside" which is-- really awful. Terrifying. not sure I'd recommend it.
Although the Brits are the best, IMO. ;)
| 123 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:57:49am |
re: #120 Kurt Angle
What's the deal, Greg? Why the sleeper account act?
| 125 |
Neutral President Sat, Sep 5, 2009 12:59:20am |
re: #109 Kurt Angle
Amazing words? Calling Obama a "House N***o", Oprah Winfrey the "Whore of Babylon" and Obama's mother white trash.
What ever floats your boat. I suspect it will be sunk soon.
This is the first time I think I've ever actually clicked the "!" button.
| 126 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:01:29am |
re: #107 Dark_Falcon
We'll talk more about this tomorrow, but I do want to continue this discussion.
Cool, would love it. sleep well, DF!
| 127 |
Fenway_Nation Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:02:05am |
re: #120 Kurt Angle
I gotta admit, I was skeptical at first. But you, sir, have won me over with your all caps.
| 128 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:02:36am |
re: #125 ArchangelMichael
I suggest we ignore the racist troll and report its comments. It's clearly one of the fucks who was recently kicked to the curb, probably an Ace poster, and here to disrupt things.
| 130 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:03:43am |
re: #127 Fenway_Nation
ALL CAPS > Logic.
/
| 131 |
Neutral President Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:05:00am |
re: #128 iceweasel
I suggest we ignore the racist troll and report its comments. It's clearly one of the fucks who was recently kicked to the curb, probably an Ace poster, and here to disrupt things.
My "hellfire parties" that are against everything good and wholesome are much more interesting anyway lol.
| 133 |
Fenway_Nation Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:06:14am |
How's the pilot episode for Slumbering & Fenway coming along?
| 134 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:07:14am |
re: #129 Kurt Angle
Could have fooled me, Greg. I figured you for having a different theme song.
So... you come on this thread tonight, claiming you are new. Even though you have been registered for just over two years. What's up with that, Greg?
| 135 |
Neutral President Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:07:58am |
re: #132 Kurt Angle
You're an idiot. You would need 3 promotions to be an asshole.
| 136 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:11:54am |
re: #133 Fenway_Nation
I drank too much and passed out in the chili dip. You wrote dirty things on my face with a hi-lighter because you couldn't find a permanent marker.
You picked up on a tranny at the bar, and learned a valuable life lesson. I made fun of you.
| 137 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:13:08am |
re: #122 iceweasel
Although the Brits are the best, IMO. ;)
Gotta love those old 'Hammer' horror films ;-)
| 139 |
Neutral President Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:13:47am |
re: #134 Slumbering Behemoth
Could have fooled me, Greg. I figured you for having a different theme song.
So... you come on this thread tonight, claiming you are new. Even though you have been registered for just over two years. What's up with that, Greg?
Which Greg is this Greg? Is it a sockpuppet of someone we should know?
| 140 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:16:51am |
re: #139 ArchangelMichael
It is a troll. A troll that makes words blue.
| 141 |
Fenway_Nation Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:18:30am |
re: #136 Slumbering Behemoth
Oh shit- that happened? I thought that last part was a dream I had. Or
The Crying Game
...I remember the crying part...and the vomiting.
| 142 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:21:32am |
re: #141 Fenway_Nation
BTW, Red of The Defiled Fruitcup would like to converse with you. I assume you have his email addy.
| 143 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:22:20am |
re: #137 Jimmah
Gotta love those old 'Hammer' horror films ;-)
FUCK YEAH!
Love them! and that is one of my favourites!
!!!
HAMMER HORROR! FUCK YEAH! COMIN AGIN TO SAVE THE MUTHERFUCKIN DAY NOW!
| 144 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:23:03am |
Getting satanic now...
Siouxsie and the Banshees (with Robert Smith on guitar) - Spellbound
| 145 |
Neutral President Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:26:16am |
re: #144 Jimmah
Can never have too much Siouxsie.
| 146 |
Fenway_Nation Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:26:28am |
re: #142 Slumbering Behemoth
Actually, no. Right now, I think the only lizard that has my e-mail addy is Floral Giraffe...
| 147 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:27:34am |
re: #133 Fenway_Nation
How's the pilot episode for Slumbering & Fenway coming along?
Oh crap. Before I forget, the show is called "Fenway & The Behemoth", remember?
You get first billing 'cuz yer more purty than me.
| 148 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:28:56am |
re: #144 Jimmah
Dude, I like you, but you totally suck at "getting satanic". Just sayin'.
| 149 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:29:06am |
re: #144 Jimmah
Getting satanic now...
Siouxsie and the Banshees (with Robert Smith on guitar) - Spellbound
LOVE Siouxsie! Cue the Bauhaus now...
| 150 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:35:01am |
re: #146 Fenway_Nation
Well, he'd like to speak to you email wise. I won't put anything up here in public (like email addys), because I am more paranoid than a Bircher during an Obama admin., but if you see him here abouts, shout at him.
| 151 |
BatGuano Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:38:11am |
Hi, everyone. gmsc's last post was August 6.Does anyone have additional information?
| 152 |
TheMatrix31 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:38:48am |
re: #151 BatGuano
Hi, everyone. gmsc's last post was August 6.Does anyone have additional information?
No idea dude.
| 153 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:39:57am |
re: #148 Slumbering Behemoth
Dude, I like you, but you totally suck at "getting satanic". Just sayin'.
Nah, Satan regards Slayer as useful idiots at best. Siouxsie is way higher in His Dark Majesty's favour ;-)
Arabian Nights:
| 154 |
Neutral President Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:41:43am |
re: #151 BatGuano
Hi, everyone. gmsc's last post was August 6.Does anyone have additional information?
He said that things might occur which would cause him to be absent for awhile and possibly not come back. He never said exactly what it was but I got the feeling it was either job or health related.
I hope he comes back but I don't have any more info other than that.
| 155 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:42:28am |
re: #151 BatGuano
Hi, everyone. gmsc's last post was August 6.Does anyone have additional information?
Hi Bat-Man.
No idea about gmsc, but someone mentioned that he'd said something a while ago about a work situation changing and if it did, he'd have way less time to post.
Here's some Jesus and Mary Chain I posted earlier, it's kinda like a dirty beach boys song.
| 156 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:43:13am |
re: #153 Jimmah
You are so wrong on so many levels. For one, she didn't even shave her armpits.
/
| 157 |
Neutral President Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:44:22am |
re: #151 BatGuano
I think this is his blog and there are recent posts on it, but I'm not absolutely sure if it's him or not.
I should have thought to check that a long time ago.
| 159 |
Neutral President Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:45:16am |
Another of my favorites.
| 160 |
BatGuano Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:47:06am |
re: #157 ArchangelMichael
I think that his blog too. checked it earlier and didn't see any clues.
| 163 |
lazardo Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:49:20am |
We have flipped and are scary now.
Rotating title wisdom of the moment.
/also, good afternoon
| 164 |
TheMatrix31 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:50:30am |
| 165 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:53:14am |
re: #153 Jimmah
Nah, Satan regards Slayer as useful idiots at best. Siouxsie is way higher in His Dark Majesty's favour ;-)
Arabian Nights:
[Video]
Super creepy lyrics too..brilliant, but creepy
I heard a rumour-what have you done to her I heard a rumour-what have you done to her
Veiled behind screens
kept as your baby machine
Whilst you conquer more orifices
Of boys, goats and things
Ripped out sheeps eyes-no forks or knives
| 166 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:54:19am |
| 167 |
BatGuano Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:55:33am |
re: #164 TheMatrix31
Not much. I was just contemplating change.Change, changes. Sometimes change stays the same but then it will change. And I just noticed if you say change enough times it sounds funny and has no meaning. What's going on with you?
| 168 |
Neutral President Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:57:41am |
re: #165 iceweasel
This is driving me nuts. I'm trying to find a particular Siouxsie and the Banshee's track and I cant remember the name. She only has like 100 LP and CD releases too so going through them one by one and searching youtube for each is infuriating.
| 169 |
TheMatrix31 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:58:21am |
re: #167 BatGuano
Not much. I was just contemplating change.Change, changes. Sometimes change stays the same but then it will change. And I just noticed if you say change enough times it sounds funny and has no meaning. What's going on with you?
Nothing much goin' on, just catching up the karma stuff from last thread. That thread was uh, somewhat irritating lol
| 170 |
Fenway_Nation Sat, Sep 5, 2009 1:58:44am |
re: #165 iceweasel
What? Arabian Nights and not The Killing Jar? If anything, I think The Killing Jar is creepier because it's more peppy and up-tempo while the lyrics are just as dark as Arabian Nights.
| 173 |
BatGuano Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:02:30am |
re: #169 TheMatrix31
Excellent vid, Matrix. Why didn't I think of that one? :)
| 174 |
BatGuano Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:03:40am |
re: #171 Sharmuta
Hi, Sharmuta! You do realize you were one second late?
| 175 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:04:12am |
re: #165 iceweasel
Super creepy lyrics too..brilliant, but creepy
I heard a rumour-what have you done to her I heard a rumour-what have you done to her
Veiled behind screens
kept as your baby machine
Whilst you conquer more orifices
Of boys, goats and things
Ripped out sheeps eyes-no forks or knives
They don't write them like that anymore, at least not that i know of. (People might get killed)
| 176 |
freetoken Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:05:03am |
Lacking the ripe ovaries of the flora... I offer up pizza over on the buffet →→→→→→
| 177 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:05:11am |
| 178 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:05:29am |
re: #168 ArchangelMichael
This is driving me nuts. I'm trying to find a particular Siouxsie and the Banshee's track and I cant remember the name. She only has like 100 LP and CD releases too so going through them one by one and searching youtube for each is infuriating.
Youtube makes me crazy, hunting for videos...arrgh,
Do you know the Dresden Dolls? I think you and Jimmah would both like them...plus their lyrics are so clever
Coin Operated Boy
| 179 |
TheMatrix31 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:06:12am |
re: #173 BatGuano
Excellent vid, Matrix. Why didn't I think of that one? :)
LOL no idea. Other than that, eh...just enjoying some TiVo'ed programming as usual for this late at night.
| 180 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:06:28am |
re: #174 BatGuano
Hi, Sharmuta! You do realize you were one second late?
Because I know my limitations, I don't strive for perfection. Or something.
| 181 |
Neutral President Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:07:00am |
re: #178 iceweasel
OK I found it, and I feel really stupid for forgetting the name too.
| 182 |
BatGuano Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:10:17am |
re: #180 Sharmuta
"Endeavor to persevere", Lone Waitie in The Outlaw Josey Wales
| 183 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:10:50am |
"Fruitcup" is on the buffet...
| 184 |
Gus Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:12:02am |
| 185 |
Fenway_Nation Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:12:05am |
Hey there red- Slumbering said that you might've wanted to get in touch w/me upthread.
| 186 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:14:35am |
re: #178 iceweasel
Youtube makes me crazy, hunting for videos...arrgh,
Do you know the Dresden Dolls? I think you and Jimmah would both like them...plus their lyrics are so clever
Coin Operated Boy
Haven't come across them before, but very cool. Ta!
| 189 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:27:54am |
Nirvana did a cover but here is the original from Edinburgh's 'The Vaselines' :
Jesus Doesn't Want Me For A Sunbeam
| 190 |
BatGuano Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:28:37am |
re: #169 TheMatrix31
I skimmed through the previous thread and found much that was irritating.
| 191 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:30:59am |
re: #187 ArchangelMichael
Ok who killed the thread?
A flurry of activity and we'll all go quiet again for another 20 minutes.
| 195 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:36:09am |
re: #189 Jimmah
I just dinged Jimmah twice -- and I liked it.
| 196 |
Neutral President Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:38:20am |
re: #195 iceweasel
I just dinged Jimmah twice -- and I liked it.
"a mockery of everything good, decent, and wholesome..."
| 197 |
Sharmuta Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:39:53am |
re: #195 iceweasel
I just dinged Jimmah twice -- and I liked it.
Stealth Dinging - ur dewin it rong!
| 198 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:41:02am |
re: #196 ArchangelMichael
"a mockery of everything good, decent, and wholesome..."
I dunno about decent and wholesome...but it was good. ;)
| 199 |
Neutral President Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:43:04am |
re: #198 iceweasel
Once again Alex Jones has given me something to have fun with for weeks.
| 200 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:43:47am |
re: #196 ArchangelMichael
"a mockery of everything good, decent, and wholesome..."
'Upding' and 'dinged' used to be such simple, innocent little words...;-)
| 201 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:44:30am |
re: #199 ArchangelMichael
Once again Alex Jones has given me something to have fun with for weeks.
Oh yeah. I love you for posting that. That's going to come in very handy!
Gary Oldman doing Sid vicious, My Way, from Sid and Nancy:
| 202 |
Neutral President Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:44:38am |
re: #200 Jimmah
'Upding' and 'dinged' used to be such simple, innocent little words...;-)
Someone tried to upding inside my head. I had to put up an dampening field.
| 204 |
Neutral President Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:46:57am |
re: #203 Sharmuta
Where's Kirk when we need him?
With the Klingons on Uranus?
Sorry I could not resist it. Willpower too weak...
| 205 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:47:32am |
re: #202 ArchangelMichael
Someone tried to upding inside my head. I had to put up an dampening field.
Dampening field= In other words, you wore someone's panties' on your head...
Where is James T Kirk, anyway? Isn't it time for him to demand that scotty raise the shields?
| 208 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:52:06am |
re: #205 iceweasel
Dampening field= In other words, you wore someone's panties' on your head...
Where is James T Kirk, anyway? Isn't it time for him to demand that scotty raise the shields?
He's busy fighting. May take a while...
| 211 |
Neutral President Sat, Sep 5, 2009 2:59:52am |
re: #208 Jimmah
He's busy fighting. May take a while...
[Video]
I much preferred the fight that Archer had with a Gorn in the mirror universe episode of Enterprise. Those 2 episodes were almost the only two in the whole series worth watching.
| 212 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 3:04:19am |
re: #208 Jimmah
He's busy fighting. May take a while...
OKay, that video is killing me with laughter...
but then again, surely a country whose major fear is a vacuum cleaner armed with a plunger and a whisk deserves to lose domition over land and sea?
| 213 |
freetoken Sat, Sep 5, 2009 3:13:30am |
For the two of you who are still awake...
I put up a spinoff about Behe's appearance on Blogginheads.tv last week, with a comment to that with a bunch of links.
Bottomline: John McWhorter went way out of his field (which is linguistics and social commentary), basically gave a platform for Behe to spout his stuff, and Carl Zimmer and Sean Carroll drew the line in the sand and said they will have nothing to do with anything that has to do with ID/DI and said goodbye to blogginheads.
Which is sad, because both Zimmer and Carroll are a delight to listen to and both are very good at explaining complex science.
Additionally McWhorter looks like a fool, and Behe and his friend Bruce Chapman are now whining about persecution.
The irony about all of this is that the owner/progenitor of blogginheads is one Bob Wright whose intellectual efforts have been directed at finding existential meaning in a world without clinging to a traditional view of God.
| 214 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 3:20:24am |
re: #213 freetoken
The irony about all of this is that the owner/progenitor of blogginheads is one Bob Wright whose intellectual efforts have been directed at finding existential meaning in a world without clinging to a traditional view of God.
That does suck, but Behe deserves to be ostracised as does anyone who gives him a platform. It just grants his crackpottery legitimacy.
A sad loss for bloggingheads, but I can't blame Zimmer and Carroll.
| 215 |
laZardo Sat, Sep 5, 2009 3:20:40am |
Thousands protesting across Latin America...against Chavez.
/huh.
| 216 |
freetoken Sat, Sep 5, 2009 3:29:00am |
re: #214 iceweasel
Even worse... McWhorter comes off as somebody who is buying into ID. Even though he professes that he is not a believer in a traditional God, he nevertheless sounds (in the conversation) as if he is fully endorsing Behe's book. Clearly McWhorter didn't understand what he was getting into.
| 218 |
theheat Sat, Sep 5, 2009 3:36:10am |
Man, I was going to make muffins from a mix, but I just ate half the batter, chased it with a couple glasses of milk, and now I'm feeling sick.
Can't imagine why.
| 219 |
Wendya Sat, Sep 5, 2009 3:52:27am |
re: #120 Kurt Angle
IT'S ALL TRUE. LISTEN TO THE TRUTH. [Link: www.youtube.com...]
Is there any blog or forum on the internet you haven't trolled yet?
| 220 |
TheMatrix31 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 4:03:40am |
[Link: www.realtor.com...]
I want this house.
| 221 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Sep 5, 2009 4:06:39am |
re: #220 TheMatrix31
[Link: www.realtor.com...]
I want this house.
Do you have any idea what the state taxes in NC are?
| 223 |
freetoken Sat, Sep 5, 2009 4:08:09am |
| 224 |
TheMatrix31 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 4:11:37am |
re: #221 Cannadian Club Akbar
Do you have any idea what the state taxes in NC are?
No idea actually. Can't be worse than CA, can it?
re: #223 freetoken
Because...?
Because it's cheap, massive, beautiful, large backyard, great neighborhood. NC is a booming area with four great universities, and some claim to have the most beautiful girls in the country. Overall, better than this hell-hole they call California/LA.
| 225 |
freetoken Sat, Sep 5, 2009 4:13:22am |
re: #224 TheMatrix31
The girls are always more beautiful across the state line...
| 226 |
TheMatrix31 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 4:14:05am |
How North Carolina State income tax rates are structured
The tax table below will show in detail the North Carolina state income tax rates by income tax bracket(s). There are 3 income tax brackets for North Carolina.
If your income range is between $0 and $12,750, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 6%.
If your income range is between $12,751 and $60,000, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 7%.
If your income range is $60,001 and over, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 7.75%.
Income tax brackets data last updated March 3rd, 2009.
| 227 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Sep 5, 2009 4:14:38am |
re: #224 TheMatrix31
You'd have to get a gun rack for your truck.
| 228 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Sep 5, 2009 4:17:14am |
re: #226 TheMatrix31
Well, for a 300K house you would need to be in the top bracket. Then add your federal taxes to it, which by the time the Dems are done will be around 50%.
| 229 |
TheMatrix31 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 4:17:22am |
re: #227 Cannadian Club Akbar
You'd have to get a gun rack for your truck.
Eh lol, don't mind it...
In CA, If your income range is between $37,234 and $47,055, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 8%.
In NC, If your income range is $60,001 and over, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 7.75%.
CA's still has two tiers above that, that's the top bracket for NC.
| 230 |
TheMatrix31 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 4:18:25am |
re: #228 Cannadian Club Akbar
Well, for a 300K house you would need to be in the top bracket. Then add your federal taxes to it, which by the time the Dems are done will be around 50%.
Yeah, just considering my options for my imminent departure from CA. I'm out of here in three, four years tops.
| 231 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Sep 5, 2009 4:19:20am |
re: #230 TheMatrix31
Yeah, just considering my options for my imminent departure from CA. I'm out of here in three, four years tops.
Do grad skool at Duke or UNC.
| 232 |
TheMatrix31 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 4:24:47am |
re: #231 Cannadian Club Akbar
Do grad skool at Duke or UNC.
I was thinking graduate business school @ University of Texas-Austin. I know Austin's full of liberals, but I really love Texas. Went to Dallas for two weeks once and fell in love.
I'd also love to go to Michigan's business school, but Michigan's as fucked as CA is.
No idea how Duke/NC/NCST/Wake's business schools are.
Ah hell, why am I even considering going to business school? Any success will be punished anyway.
| 233 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Sep 5, 2009 4:26:07am |
re: #232 TheMatrix31
gotta go. Family emergency. will cover this later
| 234 |
TheMatrix31 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 4:27:37am |
re: #233 Cannadian Club Akbar
gotta go. Family emergency. will cover this later
Hope everything's alright man. Take it easy.
| 235 |
SixDegrees Sat, Sep 5, 2009 4:40:02am |
re: #14 EastSider
At the suggestion of someone on the previous thread, thought i'd repost a comment of mine here aiming for some discussion:
Completely agree with both points. There's a real danger here: the right will simply be painted with the "Stupid!" brush on all future matters and easily dismissed without so much as consideration.
The Democrats have got to be loving this development. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that they're actively encouraging it. You can't buy publicity or political marketing this good.
| 239 |
jordash1212 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:19:06am |
however good morning... feels so weird to say that.
| 240 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:21:41am |
Just waking up here in the midwest US.
Taking a quick turn around the right-o-sphere this morning, sadly it looks like political demonization is still more important than the truth.
Charles is doing the right thing re: Van Jones, I'm just sorry that he has to take so much flack for it by people who've forgotten what the concept of "innocent before proven guilty" means.
| 242 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:25:09am |
Looks like James T. Kirk is up and about this morning ;).
| 243 |
JamesTKirk Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:29:03am |
re: #242 Irish Rose
Looks like James T. Kirk is up and about this morning ;).
Huzzahwhat? I just got here.
| 245 |
JamesTKirk Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:31:42am |
re: #244 Irish Rose
I saw you dinging comments in spy ;).
I always check out the spinoff links on the main page (and ding if need be) before jumping into the overnight thread.
| 246 |
FrogMarch Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:32:26am |
…in the media over Van Jones. As someone notes in comments over there, imagine if George Bush had appointed a Klansman who spouted conspiracy theories about the Clintons and called Democrats anal orifices, and put him in charge of thirty billion dollars worth of federal activity, with no confirmation hearings.
Does Barack Obama understand the odiousness of Trutherism? I’m not sure that he does, or that Democrats do in general. After all, Howard Dean called it “an interesting theory.” And it wasn’t that long ago (and may still be true today) that a majority of Democrats either believed that George Bush knew about the attacks ahead of time, or aren’t sure. Why would he think that a belief that is mainstream in his own party was particularly odious? In fact, I’m sure, given the “progressive” bubble in which he’s spent his entire life, he’s a little perplexed what the big deal is about Van Jones. None of this is news to him, any more than Reverend Wright’s views were. The only thing that shocks him is that anyone else would object.
| 247 |
JamesTKirk Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:32:29am |
Then I came here and saw people crying out my name in praise and supplication.
| 248 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:32:52am |
I never ding either way until at least my second cup.
Looks like the DT regulars are either gone, or sleeping in.
| 250 |
JamesTKirk Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:34:10am |
re: #248 Irish Rose
Looks like the DT regulars are either gone, or sleeping in.
Well, it is Saturday...
| 251 |
FrogMarch Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:34:56am |
| 254 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:37:18am |
re: #253 bbuddha
Good morning, and yes it is.
Where are you logging in from?
| 256 |
bbuddha Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:38:44am |
re: #246 FrogMarch
Absolutely right. I think it is a problem that is common to those in washington. I think the townhalls were a real (unwelcome) eye opener. They live in an echo chamber and don't realize those of us paying the tab may have a different opinion on any number of issues than they do.
| 259 |
FrogMarch Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:40:03am |
re: #252 Irish Rose
So whats' your take on Van Jones?
If Jones did not deny placing his name on a troofer list, then he placed his name there. He says he didn't mean it, so I suppose that's what we are supposed to believe?
I have a hard time believing that every signatory on a 9/11 troofer list was duped.
Interesting comments here: [Link: www.transterrestrial.com...] (as posted above)
| 261 |
bbuddha Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:40:17am |
re: #254 Irish Rose
The capitol city of Maine. Summer weather finally arrived a couple of weeks ago. Too late to save our tomatoes, tomato blight :-( but I'll take the warm weather whenever it wants to come.
| 264 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:43:58am |
re: #259 FrogMarch
Even so, I don't think it's been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's a truther. And it really bothers me to see people on the right rushing to judgement without concrete proof.
Unfortunately, it seems that a lot of people are more interested in partisan demonization these days than they are the truth.
Kinda sad.
| 265 |
FrogMarch Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:44:49am |
re: #256 bbuddha
Indeed.
And the left can sure shovel out the projection. Constantly accusing anyone who dare disagree with them of doing what they themselves do.
| 266 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:45:11am |
re: #264 Irish Rose
Unfortunately, it seems that a lot of people are more interested in partisan demonization these days than they are the truth.
Well stated. To me, it seems this is the flavor of the day for the GOP.
| 267 |
1SG(ret) Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:45:25am |
I don't care if Van Jones is a truther or not. His past statements point to Black Nationalism, that's enough for me to oppose his being in any position of government.
| 268 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:48:03am |
re: #267 1SG(ret)
I don't care if Van Jones is a truther or not. His past statements point to Black Nationalism, that's enough for me to oppose his being in any position of government.
If you're going to judge someones character and fitness for office, you should be doing it for the right reasons. The "truther" kerfluffle is nothing more than a distraction, we should be looking at the hard evidence already on hand.
| 269 |
FrogMarch Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:48:10am |
re: #264 Irish Rose
Even so, I don't think it's been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's a truther. And it really bothers me to see people on the right rushing to judgement without concrete proof.
Unfortunately, it seems that a lot of people are more interested in partisan demonization these days than they are the truth.
Kinda sad.
I guess I'm confused. Why did Jones apologize?
WASHINGTON POST: White House Says Little About Embattled Jones. “White House officials offered tepid support Friday for Van Jones, the administration’s embattled energy efficiency guru, who has issued two public apologies this week, one for signing a petition that questioned whether Bush administration officials ‘may indeed have deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war.’”
| 271 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:48:56am |
re: #266 Diego
Well stated. To me, it seems this is the flavor of the day for the GOP.
Yeah it is, and it's sad isn't it?
| 273 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:51:21am |
re: #271 Irish Rose
Not just sad. harmful. I didn't accept it from the left and I don't accept it from the right.
| 274 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:52:17am |
My take on Van Jones.
He's as lefty as they come, a neo-marxist zoom dweebie.
But he's not a troofer.
Big whoop.
Another fine pick.
/dripping
| 275 |
bbuddha Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:53:58am |
re: #271 Irish Rose
Why is it sad to look at what a person has said, documents they have signed and idealogies they have identified themselves as , Jones case communism, to judge their fitness to be an integral part of a democratic republic. Sorry about the run on sentance
| 276 |
1SG(ret) Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:54:58am |
re: #268 Irish Rose
Very reason I don't use the "truther" kerfluffle in my opinion. The whole of the person should be the gage by which one is looked at. With his "whole" I see many problems.
| 277 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:56:45am |
re: #273 Diego
Not just sad. harmful. I didn't accept it from the left and I don't accept it from the right.
Me either.
I read what Ace said about Charles yesterday, and it made me want to gag... doesn't anyone care about the truth anymore?
| 279 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 5:59:25am |
re: #275 bbuddha
Why is it sad to look at what a person has said, documents they have signed and idealogies they have identified themselves as , Jones case communism, to judge their fitness to be an integral part of a democratic republic. Sorry about the run on sentance
It's not. But if you're going to attack someones' character, then you should limit your criticisms to those that are based on hard evidence.
| 280 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:01:53am |
re: #278 Diego
Link?
You don't need one, his rude comments are all over his mainpage in multiple posts.
| 282 |
Killian Bundy Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:03:54am |
It's International Bacon Day.
/smell the meat
| 284 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:07:29am |
Good Morning Lizards!
re: #282 Killian Bundy
It's International Bacon Day.
/smell the meat
//Clutch your chest :)
| 287 |
bbuddha Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:08:02am |
re: #282 Killian Bundy
I love bacon, second only to sausage Yum
| 288 |
1SG(ret) Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:08:29am |
re: #282 Killian Bundy
Great day indeed. My son's 4H show pig will be Bacon on our plates at this time tomorrow. Working on next years show entries starting in Jan.
| 289 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:08:58am |
re: #285 Diego
Found it. I did a search for 'ace' and 'blog'.
You could have also googled Dog+Shit
You get the same results
| 290 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:09:21am |
re: #276 1SG(ret)
Very reason I don't use the "truther" kerfluffle in my opinion. The whole of the person should be the gage by which one is looked at. With his "whole" I see many problems.
So do I.
And I think Charles does, too.
But he also has enough integrity to suggest to his fellow bloggers (like Ace) that in the world of journalism, concepts like "truth" and "intellectual honesty" are still important. Honestly, he shouldn't HAVE to remind them of this... that he does, only serves as an indication of how far down the slope of extremism the GOP has slipped.
| 291 |
Killian Bundy Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:10:28am |
/the White House knew all along exactly what a radical left wing nut job Van Jones is and hired him anyway, because that's what they wanted
| 292 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:11:04am |
re: #282 Killian Bundy
Last night, I dreamed (seriously) that I was sitting with some friends around the table, and absent-mindedly was eating a piece of steak. Didn't realize what I was doing until I reached for some A-1 sauce because whatever was in my mouth just didn't taste good... realized it and spit it out.
Didn't taste that good, and the texture was awful. But it was exactly how I remember it.
But, I can have some fak'in bacon!
| 293 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:12:57am |
re: #276 1SG(ret)
Someone who has salient arguments self-destructs as soon as they hold up their briefcase and says, "I must get this cheese to Washington!"
| 294 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:13:34am |
re: #283 taxfreekiller
this Ace stuff is also subject change too
Ace has been letting his registrants libel Charles to high heaven, for months on end now. Nothing is going to change over there. Only difference is, he's now doing it himself.
And frankly, I don't think that he has it in him to issue an apology.
| 295 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:14:54am |
re: #288 1SG(ret)
Great day indeed. My son's 4H show pig will be Bacon on our plates at this time tomorrow. Working on next years show entries starting in Jan.
Mmmm, bacon.
| 296 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:15:35am |
See why I don't go to other websites?
| 298 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:16:42am |
re: #295 Irish Rose
Mmmm, bacon.
Nooo!
Come on Veggie let's get out of here! *wink*
Good morning Irish..Hope today finds you well
Thanks for the email
| 300 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:18:13am |
re: #298 HoosierHoops
Nooo!
Come on Veggie let's get out of here! *wink*
Good morning Irish..Hope today finds you well
Thanks for the email
You're welcome.
| 302 |
1SG(ret) Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:21:19am |
Off to the packing house to pick up Posey. Hope all have a great Holiday weekend!
| 303 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:21:31am |
The real question is if Sunshine will chop him or if the Van Jones' mold is the Change we're supposed to believe in.
I'm not so sure that he'll be thrown under the bus yet.
| 304 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:23:36am |
re: #303 SasquatchOnSteroids
The real question is if Sunshine will chop him or if the Van Jones' mold is the Change we're supposed to believe in.
I'm not so sure that he'll be thrown under the bus yet.
He is going under the Bus...Hell Obama threw the guy that married him under the Bus...It's crowded under there but they will make room..
| 305 |
filetandrelease Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:25:04am |
The Hammer nailed another one. Poor "O", a mere mortal. LOL. It is on Drudge. Lazy morning for me.
| 306 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:25:35am |
re: #304 HoosierHoops
He is going under the Bus...Hell Obama threw the guy that married him under the Bus...It's crowded under there but they will make room..
Heh.
How's it hangin', 2H ?
| 308 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:27:26am |
re: #306 SasquatchOnSteroids
Heh.
How's it hangin', 2H ?
Hey you! I'm doing great...Hope you are well my friend...
| 309 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:28:05am |
re: #307 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Now that's just proof you people have too much money on yer hands.
/BHO
| 310 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:30:02am |
re: #308 HoosierHoops
Hey you! I'm doing great...Hope you are well my friend...
All's good,
Triple Birthday Party day today.
12:00
3:00
5:00
My diet is shattered. But lots of cake.
How has Jordan been doing ?
| 311 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:30:07am |
re: #309 SasquatchOnSteroids
Now that's just proof you people have too much money on yer hands.
/BHO
I actually had someone who worked in the tax office tell me, "Well, you must make too much money."
I asked, "Democrat?"
Was years ago. Stuck with me.
| 313 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:30:46am |
| 314 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:34:40am |
re: #310 SasquatchOnSteroids
All's good,
Triple Birthday Party day today.
12:00
3:00
5:00My diet is shattered. But lots of cake.
How has Jordan been doing ?
Jordan is doing great..Flush with cash and out of the Marines...
OK
Those are kids Birthday parties I can tell...No grownups have birthday parties at noon, 3 or 5pm..
Adults start at 9pm...
Have a great day...Let me guess...Your wife bought all the presents and you just signed the cards?
:)
| 315 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:36:00am |
re: #311 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I actually had someone who worked in the tax office tell me, "Well, you must make too much money."
I asked, "Democrat?"
Was years ago. Stuck with me.
Sounds accurate. My neighbor told me that once last year.
Big Obama supporter.
I say, dude, you live in the same neighborhood, and you tell me I make too much ?
He has older cars, we have newer ones. We make too much.
What a guy.
| 316 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:37:23am |
re: #314 HoosierHoops
Jordan is doing great..Flush with cash and out of the Marines...
OK
Those are kids Birthday parties I can tell...No grownups have birthday parties at noon, 3 or 5pm..
Adults start at 9pm...
Have a great day...Let me guess...Your wife bought all the presents and you just signed the cards?
:)
HH, PI !!
Right on all accounts !
What's my favorite color, smartass ?
///
| 317 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:38:22am |
re: #316 SasquatchOnSteroids
HH, PI !!
Right on all accounts !
What's my favorite color, smartass ?
///
Blue...LOL
| 318 |
SixDegrees Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:38:50am |
re: #264 Irish Rose
Even so, I don't think it's been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's a truther. And it really bothers me to see people on the right rushing to judgement without concrete proof.
Unfortunately, it seems that a lot of people are more interested in partisan demonization these days than they are the truth.
Kinda sad.
Actually, it hasn't been proven at all. The only indication that he might be a Troofer - and the odious, lying weasel that inevitably goes along with such membership - comes from...Troofer websites. Which are populated by odious, lying weasels with a history of faking evidence exactly like this.
As Charles has said many times, given the choice between believing Van Jones and believing the Troofers, it's a no-brainer to pick Van Jones. It doesn't say much about him apart from the fact that he has more credibility than a Troofer, but there is that much, and it's a certainty.
Meanwhile, there are a vast number of absolutely legitimate criticisms of Van Jones that have now been blunted by the hysterical, irrational reaction to this single, almost certainly fraudulent report. To those who have triumphed the Troofer angle, nice going - you've undercut legitimate complaints by casting everyone on the Right as a bunch of slobbering knuckle-draggers with shit for brains.
Just like Troofers. Who you now choose to believe and side with. Nice bedfellows.
| 319 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:39:33am |
re: #317 HoosierHoops
Blue...LOL
See, now you're just showing off.
Have a good day, my friend.
Gotta scat.
| 320 |
lincolntf Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:41:11am |
Morning all.
Woke up half-expecting to hear that Van "Alex" Jones was stepping down. Any new developments, or are they still in full wriggle mode?
| 321 |
bbuddha Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:41:25am |
re: #316 SasquatchOnSteroids
Orange?? :-) I know, I know, not directed at me, couldn't resist
| 322 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:43:46am |
re: #285 Diego
Found it. I did a search for 'ace' and 'blog'.
Ace is a monumental shit. Always has been, always will be. And illiterate.
And he hates women.
he's infamous on lib blogs for it. His commenters are even worse.
I direct anyone unfamiliar with that shit to this cached page of a lib takedown of him from last week.
| 323 |
bbuddha Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:44:02am |
re: #318 SixDegrees
Actually, it hasn't been proven at all. The only indication that he might be a Troofer - and the odious, lying weasel that inevitably goes along with such membership - comes from...Troofer websites. Which are populated by odious, lying weasels with a history of faking evidence exactly like this.
As Charles has said many times, given the choice between believing Van Jones and believing the Troofers, it's a no-brainer to pick Van Jones. It doesn't say much about him apart from the fact that he has more credibility than a Troofer, but there is that much, and it's a certainty.
Meanwhile, there are a vast number of absolutely legitimate criticisms of Van Jones that have now been blunted by the hysterical, irrational reaction to this single, almost certainly fraudulent report. To those who have triumphed the Troofer angle, nice going - you've undercut legitimate complaints by casting everyone on the Right as a bunch of slobbering knuckle-draggers with shit for brains.
Just like Troofers. Who you now choose to believe and side with. Nice bedfellows.
Well, besides troofers (not believable) there is his signature, which he didn't deny. Instead he said he didn't understand. Well that's one yale education that went completely to waste.
You are correct about there being plenty of other problems with him. No need to concentrate on that one.
| 324 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:45:08am |
| 325 |
SixDegrees Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:45:56am |
re: #269 FrogMarch
I guess I'm confused. Why did Jones apologize?
WASHINGTON POST: White House Says Little About Embattled Jones. “White House officials offered tepid support Friday for Van Jones, the administration’s embattled energy efficiency guru, who has issued two public apologies this week, one for signing a petition that questioned whether Bush administration officials ‘may indeed have deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war.’”
You need to go back and look at what he actually said, instead of engaging in the extremely selective cherry picking you're doing here.
It isn't hard. His actual words - all of them - are easily available for those who are actually interested in what he actually said, and not in continuing to flog a falsehood emanating from Trooferdom.
Again: it's a sad, sad day when people start swallowing crap published by Troofers, for any reason. They are unspeakably vile and unworthy of such implicit praise.
| 326 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:46:03am |
re: #322 iceweasel
Ace is a monumental shit. Always has been, always will be. And illiterate.
And he hates women.
he's infamous on lib blogs for it. His commenters are even worse.
I direct anyone unfamiliar with that shit to this cached page of a lib takedown of him from last week.
Good morning Ice...Hope you are well and healthy
Ace is a joke...a bastion of the vile and wicked and outcasts of society
| 327 |
KenJen Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:48:15am |
Bangladesh news duped by the Onion. Hysterical. They didn't know it wasn't a real news site.
| 328 |
lincolntf Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:48:25am |
re: #325 SixDegrees
Particularly bad are the people who swallow the Troofer BS so much that they end up signing on as leaders.
| 329 |
bbuddha Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:49:43am |
re: #325 SixDegrees
a complete read doesn't exonerate him. I pisses me off that he wasted time he had at a great school and put it to such bad use. ...wiggle wiggle...
| 330 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:49:53am |
| 331 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:50:12am |
re: #326 HoosierHoops
Good morning Ice...Hope you are well and healthy
Ace is a joke...a bastion of the vile and wicked and outcasts of society
Hello Sir Hoops-a-lot!
Hope you're well, honey.
Yeah, ace, and his commenters, are the wretched refuse washed up on the shores of Wingnuttia. Really vile. You know somethings wrong when you actually have to tell your commenters this:
Please, a Favor
I know I dropped the "c bomb" last week, but that was something I don't do very often, and on top of that, I had no advertisers then.
I'm trying to get some advertisers -- with the lone exception of a Killing Time ad from blog-friend Pegu, I haven't made a dime this whole month -- and so I'd appreciate if people calmed down a bit with the language.
Yes, I know I did it. I am not assigning moral fault or anything. It was my bad.
But I would appreciate it if commenters cooled it on unnecessarily obscene language and statements that might, as they say, scare the horses.
[...]
A lot of obscenity... like f-bombs and "bullshit" is barely even obscene anymore, so ubitquitous(sic) is it on the internet. The ones to watch out for are the male and female versions of the c-bomb, tossing out "bitch" unnecessarily, angry gay baiting, talk of shooting and hanging people even in jest, etc. Some political correctness there, yeah, but consider that Netflix, for example, may not want an ad running next to a post with a lot of such sentiments.
I'm not saying write like angels. I'm just asking to tone it down a little, especially when it's just for the sake of angry venting.
Angry gay baiting, talking of lynching and shooting people, that's all 'normal' discourse there.
Ace is pathetic.
| 332 |
SixDegrees Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:50:23am |
re: #323 bbuddha
Well, besides troofers (not believable) there is his signature, which he didn't deny. Instead he said he didn't understand. Well that's one yale education that went completely to waste.
You are correct about there being plenty of other problems with him. No need to concentrate on that one.
Show me his signature. I'd really like to see it. It would constitute the very first scrap of actual, tangible proof that he signed such a document - assuming it's attached to such a document and not floating loose on a signature sheet that can be easily pasted on to whatever bilge the Troofers who falsely peddled the original choose to, after the fact.
Along with what he actually said.
Also, read through the prior threads on this topic. Several people have categorically denied signing that petition, while others have said they signed something else - not the screed their name is now listed alongside. Troofer lies - what a fucking surprise! Who would ever have thought they might be less than truthful?
| 333 |
KenJen Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:51:34am |
re: #330 HoosierHoops
LOL
Good morning Jen
I love the Onion.. I had a buddy years ago submit some stuff to them..They won't accept outside material.. You have to be on staff.
Morning Hoops! You and Winston lounging poolside today?
| 334 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:52:58am |
Great.
The poser who is impersonating me over at Ace of Spades HQ has a direct link to my blog in their profile.
Guess who just got an email?
| 336 |
SixDegrees Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:53:17am |
re: #329 bbuddha
a complete read doesn't exonerate him. I pisses me off that he wasted time he had at a great school and put it to such bad use. ...wiggle wiggle...
I'm still not seeing any evidence. I'm surprise, also, to learn that we now live in a country where anyone can accuse anyone of anything, and it becomes the accused's responsibility to prove their own innocence. Color me ignorant, but I thought it was the accuser's responsibility to produce evidence and other proof of guilt.
Or maybe we're trying to emulate China now. Mao would be so fucking proud. I better go get a new copy of my Little Red Book to carry around so I can prove my party loyalty if it's ever questioned.
| 337 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:53:29am |
Boeing wins WTO ruling on Airbus subsidies
The World Trade Organization has ruled that the European Union provided illegal subsidies to Airbus for its aircraft, Rep. Norm Dicks said Friday.Dicks, who was briefed by U.S. trade officials on the confidential decision, said the WTO ruling confirms a complaint by the U.S. in 2004 that shows "all Airbus aircraft have received illegal subsidies and that these have caused material harm to Boeing."
No doubt this will add another year to the deliberations on a tanker contract while the 45 year old tanker fleet becomes 50 years old.
| 338 |
bbuddha Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:53:53am |
re: #332 SixDegrees
He admitted it by apologizing. However, That isn't the only problem with him by a long stretch. As I stated in 323.
I don't see beating this one simply because I believe the other issues are more damning.
| 339 |
Gang of One Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:54:10am |
re: #109 Kurt Angle
I've been listening to this guy Pastor Manning. His words are amazing. I used to be a jew. I am now a Christian. He is my prophet. I feel the power of christ. Check him out [Link: www.youtube.com...]
Sorry, Kurt. You will always be a jew ... you can't sew the foreskin back on.
| 340 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:54:31am |
re: #334 Irish Rose
See why I don't go to other sites?
| 341 |
lincolntf Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:55:29am |
re: #336 SixDegrees
We're China? We're emulating a courtroom? I think people are just discussing the various possibilities/probabilities. If we restricted ourselves to speaking about only settled matters, it would be pretty boring, wouldn't it?
Do you think VJ will remain in his post?
Do you think he should?
| 342 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:55:31am |
re: #339 Gang of One
I ain't got none either... that make me a Jew?
"I've got nipples. Can you milk me?"
-Meet The Parents
| 343 |
SixDegrees Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:56:41am |
re: #338 bbuddha
He admitted it by apologizing. .
He most certainly did not. That is a gross distortion of what he actually said.
Prove me wrong: put his entire quote up here and show me where he says he's sorry for signing that document.
| 344 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:56:59am |
re: #334 Irish Rose
Great.
The poser who is impersonating me over at Ace of Spades HQ has a direct link to my blog in their profile.Guess who just got an email?
Fuck them. Assholes.
If it's any consolation, most normal people know immediately that ace and his commenters are nuts, and anyone clicking through the link to your blog would know within 30 seconds that you're not the person commenting there.
I hope that helps a little.
| 345 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:57:04am |
re: #336 SixDegrees
I'm still not seeing any evidence. I'm surprise, also, to learn that we now live in a country where anyone can accuse anyone of anything, and it becomes the accused's responsibility to prove their own innocence. Color me ignorant, but I thought it was the accuser's responsibility to produce evidence and other proof of guilt.
Or maybe we're trying to emulate China now. Mao would be so fucking proud. I better go get a new copy of my Little Red Book to carry around so I can prove my party loyalty if it's ever questioned.
Not if you're Charlie Rangel... then he's part of the "the most honest, most open and most ethical Congress in history,"
Oh, and it's not a Little Red Book, it's the Little Blue Book.
| 346 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:57:47am |
re: #344 iceweasel
There's an advantage to being an idiot. No one ever would pose as me.
| 347 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:59:03am |
| 348 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 6:59:44am |
| 349 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:00:15am |
| 350 |
SixDegrees Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:01:12am |
re: #341 lincolntf
Do you think VJ will remain in his post?
Unknown.
Do you think he should?
I don't think he ever should have been offered the post, and I would be happy to see him go. But I am appalled to see him hounded out of the post by baying morons for something he seems to have never done, based on the total absence of credible evidence backing up the claim.
How many fucking times do I have to say it? Jones has a huge pile of rubbish that he's spewed over the years that is valid fuel for all sorts of criticism. His alleged alliance with Troofers is not one of them. It's an hysterical fantasy hallucinated by that dedicated John Bircher, Glen Beck, and it's based on nothing more than the usual bilge spewed at Troofer websites. It is beyond non-credible, and the Right's sudden fixation and adoration of it when it's source is so well known is sickening.
| 351 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:01:49am |
re: #331 iceweasel
About 6 months ago i went to ace following a link where someody said they were trashing Charles...So what the hell.. I went there and said what up?
I can't recall the count but just dozens of ex-lizards came out of the woodwork...It was a war..Yet I couldn't stop laughing.. I stayed up till 4am giving them shit and calling them out...
They even called AfroCity a N*gger.. You know what? Once you call out young women with your ugliness and bigotry you are going to have issues with me..
They don't know how to trash talk without calling names...I showed them what real trash talking is about... I'm sure Ace never wants to see me again..
You piss me off..It's not play school...I'll face off..No problem...
| 352 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:03:02am |
re: #344 iceweasel
Fuck them. Assholes.
If it's any consolation, most normal people know immediately that ace and his commenters are nuts, and anyone clicking through the link to your blog would know within 30 seconds that you're not the person commenting there.I hope that helps a little.
Sure it helps.
A complaint to his server with screenshot documentation is going to help even more, if it's not removed within 24 hours.
| 354 |
lincolntf Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:04:26am |
re: #350 SixDegrees
Yup. Keep screaming about "fixations" and "adoration". By all appearances, none of your "valid" criticisms did anything to actually disqualify him. If his "Troofer" affiliation (whether mistaken or not) does, I think it's worthy of discussion. Not swearing, screaming or moral indictments, but discussion.
| 355 |
SixDegrees Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:06:06am |
re: #345 jcm
Not if you're Charlie Rangel... then he's part of the "the most honest, most open and most ethical Congress in history,"
Sorry - you lost me here. Rangel is currently under a number of investigations for everything from money laundering to tax evasion to bribery charges. the CBC seems to have bullied Nancy Pelosi into letting him retain his chairmanship - a violation of the Party's own ethics rules - in a move that seriously undermines Pelosi's faltering grip on power. Rangel's problems, however, are based on facts and a formal investigation - not pure innuendo and documents that are quite probably fakes. I'm not seeing the connection with Jones, here.
| 356 |
bbuddha Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:07:55am |
re: #343 SixDegrees
That is just mean, I have to go looking for the entire thing after only two cups of coffee
"He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition. An administration source said Jones says he did not carefully review the language in the petition before agreeing to add his name.*
[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]
I apologize, it was said FOR him by the white house.
And why are you so busy defending against this if it isn't at all important. Many, myself included, have agreed that there are more pressing issues regarding Mr Jones.
| 357 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:09:26am |
re: #353 Diego
LOL! That was a great read. Thanks :¬)
Suddenly wingnut bloggers who had put their soul dead real life careers (Radio Shack cashier, sign spinner, Hannity fluffer) on hold for the fame and fortune that comes with being a 'citizen journalist' were dragging themselves through the Obama streets at dawn looking for an angry fix... also known as a guest blogger spot at Michelle Malkin's House O'Bile.
It was sad. So very very sad.
But still they beat on, dolts against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past of 'Democracy, Whiskey, Sexy! and "Heh. Indeed." I must blog on, I can't blog on, I'll blog on.
Struggling with business plans which read: Broad statement backed up by paraphrase from Liberal Fascism + link from Instapundit = profit! they almost starved. Some, like Ace O'Spades, were forced to admonish their readers to "keep it down" while they lured in potential suckers advertisers:
heh, indeed. ;)
Also love the gatsby, beckett references.
| 358 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:10:17am |
re: #355 SixDegrees
Sorry - you lost me here. Rangel is currently under a number of investigations for everything from money laundering to tax evasion to bribery charges. the CBC seems to have bullied Nancy Pelosi into letting him retain his chairmanship - a violation of the Party's own ethics rules - in a move that seriously undermines Pelosi's faltering grip on power. Rangel's problems, however, are based on facts and a formal investigation - not pure innuendo and documents that are quite probably fakes. I'm not seeing the connection with Jones, here.
Just part of the hypocrisy, if Rangel was an (R) Pelosi would be howling for him to step down. If a (R) POTUS appointed an individual who founded a neo-nazi group as czar of anything, it would be the only thing in the news.
| 359 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:11:07am |
I should advertise on his site, just so I can pull it before it appears, siting the language on the site ;)
| 360 |
SixDegrees Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:11:41am |
re: #354 lincolntf
Yup. Keep screaming about "fixations" and "adoration". By all appearances, none of your "valid" criticisms did anything to actually disqualify him. If his "Troofer" affiliation (whether mistaken or not) does, I think it's worthy of discussion. Not swearing, screaming or moral indictments, but discussion.
Sure - falsely accusing someone is always a good thing. I keep forgetting we're supposed to act like the farthest-left Code Pink loons now.
I forget - when are we supposed to start protesting the war in Afghanistan and demanding an immediate withdrawal of troops? Oh, wait - we've already started doing that, I forgot.
I've spent the last eight years and more criticizing the loons on the Left for acting like assholes. I'm not about to become an asshole exactly like they are because Conservatism suddenly finds it's power waning. It was wrong when the Left was doing it, and it's still wrong now that the Right has taken up the torch and is attempting to outdo the Left in terms of character assassination and cowardly attacks through innuendo rather than simple fact. It's disgusting no matter where it comes from, and I will not be a part of it.
| 361 |
Gang of One Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:11:48am |
re: #342 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I ain't got none either... that make me a Jew?
"I've got nipples. Can you milk me?"
-Meet The Parents
Y'know, I contemplated that very circumstance when I posted. It makes you, well, circumcised. In Kurt's case, I was making an observation that although he calls himself a former Jew, he will always be one. However, there are those who would debate that -- my BIL for example.
| 362 |
lincolntf Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:12:44am |
re: #360 SixDegrees
"we're supposed to act like the farthest-left Code Pink loons now."
The only one ranting and raving is you.
| 363 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:13:11am |
re: #360 SixDegrees
I regret that I have but one upding to give.
| 364 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:13:48am |
re: #362 lincolntf
"we're supposed to act like the farthest-left Code Pink loons now."
The only one ranting and raving is you.
Six Degrees is absolutely right.
| 365 |
bbuddha Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:14:03am |
re: #360 SixDegrees
Continually saying false accusation doesn't make it so. I could sit her and state that the sky is purple with pink polka dots, even if I say it 1000 times it won't make it so.
The printed word doesn't create reality. only slightly off topic, did you read "The Dark Half" by Stephen King
| 367 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:15:41am |
re: #356 bbuddha
And why are you so busy defending against this if it isn't at all important. Many, myself included, have agreed that there are more pressing issues regarding Mr Jones.
Probably because concepts like "truth" and "intellectual honesty"still mean something to some people.
| 368 |
SixDegrees Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:18:35am |
re: #356 bbuddha
That is just mean, I have to go looking for the entire thing after only two cups of coffee
"He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition. An administration source said Jones says he did not carefully review the language in the petition before agreeing to add his name.*
[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]
I apologize, it was said FOR him by the white house.
And why are you so busy defending against this if it isn't at all important. Many, myself included, have agreed that there are more pressing issues regarding Mr Jones.
First, let's be crystal clear: I am NOT defending anyone here. I'm directly attacking those who lie to advance their cause - like the Troofers - and those who gleefully accept such lies in order to further their own ends - like those who continue to spread the story that Jones is a Troofer despite the overwhelming lack of any credible evidence to back up that claim. It is especially odious when there is so much that Jones can be rightfully criticized for - his bizarre pronouncements on economics and the marketplace; his overtly racist comments towards whites; his membership in the Noetic Institute - all of which are amply supported by his own written and recorded words, repeatedly and consistently over years.
Acting like idiots tars us as idiots - no real surprise there. And now, as Jones' tenure is being considered, and in the future when other questionable appointees' past statements are dragged out into the light of day, those candidates with real, serious questions persisting about their stance on various issues have been at the very least partially immunized against such criticisms simply because they're emanating from the same source which has already been exposed as a bunch of knuckle-dragging mouth breathers who announce their presence through their incessant emanation of the "ddduuuhhh..." sound.
| 369 |
bbuddha Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:18:43am |
re: #367 Irish Rose
You are so right intellectual honesty does mean something. So why did he affix his name to a document that he didn't fully read. I have a lowly BA from a virtually unknown collage and I know better than to sign anything I've failed to read.
| 370 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:18:56am |
re: #352 Irish Rose
Sure it helps.
A complaint to his server with screenshot documentation is going to help even more, if it's not removed within 24 hours.
There is stuff going down on the Enterprise...Certain Bloggers can't access a certain site at work because Blue Coat Firewalls are reporting the site as a 'hate site' There is a confusion about talking to IT about the site being black listed on the Internet...Would you call your IT dept about certain sites you visit during the work day?
You reap what you sow...And the growing season has just begun
| 371 |
opnion Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:19:31am |
Good morning, as of today Van Jones still works for the White House &
still controls $30 Billion in public funds.
They probably want to do some polling but the damage is done. The film clips of this radical will be used in Congressional Republican ads & the Democrat disasaster could be even worse than predicted for 2010.
| 372 |
KenJen Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:20:23am |
re: #369 bbuddha
You are so right intellectual honesty does mean something. So why did he affix his name to a document that he didn't fully read. I have a lowly BA from a virtually unknown collage and I know better than to sign anything I've failed to read.
Did you read what you just posted?/
| 373 |
lawhawk Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:20:56am |
re: #355 SixDegrees
The CBC hasn't bullied Pelosi into inaction. Pelosi knows that Rangel is a reliable footsoldier in her efforts to push through health care, cap n' tax, and a whole host of other taxing initiatives. He's also one of the Democrats biggest fundraisers, and as journalists are fond of saying, follow the money.
Pelosi isn't going to act unless a prosecutor brings charges, because the House ethics committee looking into Rangel's charges is itself compromised, in part because Rangel provide campaign funds to 3 of 5 of the Democrat members. The CBC has nothing to do with it.
Rangel's claims that efforts to oust him are racist in nature fall are disingenuous. He broke the law - tax laws and NYS rent stabilization laws. Those laws are color blind. He's obfuscating in order to avoid the real issue, which is that he's a corrupt politician holding out to get his leftist agenda passed while the Democrats still have the numbers to do it.
| 374 |
SixDegrees Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:21:42am |
re: #367 Irish Rose
Probably because concepts like "truth" and "intellectual honesty"still mean something to some people.
Thanks.
But there are rainbow trout and a hot grill in my future, and other things that must get done before they and I meet. So I'm off for a while.
| 376 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:23:21am |
re: #374 SixDegrees
Thanks.
But there are rainbow trout and a hot grill in my future, and other things that must get done before they and I meet. So I'm off for a while.
Have a great day, I'm going out too in just a wee bit.
| 377 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:24:28am |
re: #365 bbuddha
Continually saying false accusation doesn't make it so.
Actually, that has been proven to be the case many times. It doesn't make it true, but it does make it an accepted truth. The line between the two being non-existent in many people's eyes. Truth no longer matters or counts under the weight of opinion and rhetoric.
A few examples?
Obama is a Muslim Communist and isn't a citizen
Iraq could have attacked America in minutes with WMD
Torture was proven to have saved America from attacks
Which of these examples do you believe are fact?
| 378 |
jordash1212 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:24:54am |
For some reason browser didn't reload any new comments so this response is about an hour late.
| 379 |
bbuddha Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:25:08am |
| 380 |
jordash1212 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:25:16am |
@ IrishRose ... I live in Jerusalem, but I'm from Minneapolis.
| 381 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:26:30am |
re: #380 jordash1212
@ IrishRose ... I live in Jerusalem, but I'm from Minneapolis.
Quite a bit warmer in Jerusalem, I'm sure ;).
| 382 |
SixDegrees Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:27:15am |
re: #373 lawhawk
The CBC hasn't bullied Pelosi into inaction. Pelosi knows that Rangel is a reliable footsoldier in her efforts to push through health care, cap n' tax, and a whole host of other taxing initiatives. He's also one of the Democrats biggest fundraisers, and as journalists are fond of saying, follow the money.
Pelosi isn't going to act unless a prosecutor brings charges, because the House ethics committee looking into Rangel's charges is itself compromised, in part because Rangel provide campaign funds to 3 of 5 of the Democrat members. The CBC has nothing to do with it.
Rangel's claims that efforts to oust him are racist in nature fall are disingenuous. He broke the law - tax laws and NYS rent stabilization laws. Those laws are color blind. He's obfuscating in order to avoid the real issue, which is that he's a corrupt politician holding out to get his leftist agenda passed while the Democrats still have the numbers to do it.
There was an announcement yesterday that Pelosi was allowing Rangel to retain his chairmanship on the tax committee (irony of ironies) because the CBC took her out to the woodshed. If it's false, I'll gladly withdraw it, but I don't have time to look it up at the moment. Either way, it's a sorry testament to Pelosi's leadership.
I completely agree that Rangel is a crook, and look forward to him being driven from Congress; a prison term would be even better, but I'm not getting my hopes up. The "campaign contributions," which were made well after the investigations began, are particularly interesting, and could help spread Rangel's widening stain to a wider circle. Because let's call them what they actually look like: bribes. Might be time for the Justice Department to have a look at Charlie and his friends.
| 384 |
jordash1212 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:29:29am |
re: #381 Irish Rose
Too hot here. My parents report it's a delightful 70F there. It's about ~35C / 85-86 here. In Tel-Aviv it's much hotter and more humid.
| 385 |
kansas Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:30:13am |
Obama May Need Sense of Crisis to Revive Health-Care Overhaul
Swine Flu Anyone?
| 386 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:30:33am |
re: #380 jordash1212
@ IrishRose ... I live in Jerusalem, but I'm from Minneapolis.
So if somebody visited from Indiana you would give them a tour of the Holy Land?
| 387 |
jordash1212 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:31:21am |
re: #386 HoosierHoops
Only so much I can show you with my limited knowledge. I've only been here a month. I can give you some tips on traveling and what's fun and what's not.
| 388 |
KenJen Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:31:23am |
re: #383 jcm
Golden Trout in an Iron skillet over a fire on the shores of a lake in the Idaho wilderness.
Cracker Barrel-of all places-used to have a pecan encrusted rainbow trout on their menu. It was delicious.
| 389 |
bbuddha Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:31:24am |
re: #383 jcm
Golden Trout in an Iron skillet over a fire on the shores of a lake in the Idaho wilderness.
That is great too. I have to admit I love a great many kinds of fish. Pretty much only draw the line at raw. I like it cooked
| 390 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:31:26am |
re: #385 kansas
Obama May Need Sense of Crisis to Revive Health-Care Overhaul
Swine Flu Anyone?
CRISIS!
| 391 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:32:01am |
re: #389 bbuddha
That is great too. I have to admit I love a great many kinds of fish. Pretty much only draw the line at raw. I like it cooked
Us rednecks have a word of sushi...
Bait.
| 392 |
kansas Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:32:23am |
re: #371 opnion
Good morning, as of today Van Jones still works for the White House &
still controls $30 Billion in public funds.
They probably want to do some polling but the damage is done. The film clips of this radical will be used in Congressional Republican ads & the Democrat disasaster could be even worse than predicted for 2010.
It wasn't covered on the major networks. I can tell you what the poll will look like. Nothing to see here.
| 394 |
opnion Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:34:05am |
re: #385 kansas
Obama May Need Sense of Crisis to Revive Health-Care Overhaul
Swine Flu Anyone?
His speech should be alarmist drivel Wednesday night.
This guy has already done 111 public addresses in just 7 months.
His narcissism is leading to overexposure. Bad move.
| 395 |
bbuddha Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:34:27am |
re: #392 kansas
It wasn't covered on the major networks. I can tell you what the poll will look like. Nothing to see here.
If he's still in place by Tuesday there are going to be republicans using this for all it is worth, the networks will have to cover it. I think.
| 396 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:36:24am |
News Note: President Obama harshly criticizes Israel because it is expanding some housing in its settlements in order to accomodate growing families.
Obama was apparently not interested in the palestinians' charge that teaching their children about the Holocaust amounted to war crimes.
Obama, bless his heart, has the most f'd up moral compass of any US POTUS since jimmy carter.
| 397 |
Irish Rose Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:36:34am |
re: #391 jcm
Us rednecks have a word of sushi...
Bait.
My Marine did a tour of the Asian Pacific during his last deployment on the Nimitz. He's hooked on fresh sushi, but at has to be VERY fresh... like, right off the boat fresh.
I can handle raw salmon, but that's about it.
| 398 |
opnion Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:37:33am |
re: #395 bbuddha
If he's still in place by Tuesday there are going to be republicans using this for all it is worth, the networks will have to cover it. I think.
CNN has quit ignoring it, so the MSM will probably pick it up.
If they decide to fight to keep Jones, there will be lots of racial references & that will be divisive.
| 399 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:37:56am |
re: #394 opnion
His speech should be alarmist drivel Wednesday night.
This guy has already done 111 public addresses in just 7 months.
His narcissism is leading to overexposure. Bad move.
I could be wrong, but my cursory awareness of the polls gives me the impression that going away on vacation was the tonic that reversed the trend of his approval ratings continual descent.
| 400 |
Chekote Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:38:28am |
I just went over to Hot Air and watched more Van Jones' videos. Yes he is a lefty. We knew that. So what exactly the uproar all about? Help! Anyone?
| 401 |
gymmom Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:38:54am |
re: #397 Irish Rose
My Marine did a tour of the Asian Pacific during his last deployment on the Nimitz. He's hooked on fresh sushi, but at has to be VERY fresh... like, right off the boat fresh.
I can handle raw salmon, but that's about it.
I spent a summer in Japan. Ate lots of Sushi and wasn't an adventuresome eater before that to say the least. Liked salmon and tuna, but that's all. I thought I didn't like any of it, but figured out I wasn't a big wasabi fan. Learned to ask for sashimi or scrap that green stuff off.
| 402 |
bbuddha Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:38:59am |
re: #398 opnion
CNN has quit ignoring it, so the MSM will probably pick it up.
If they decide to fight to keep Jones, there will be lots of racial references & that will be divisive.
What, the whilte house fomenting racial divisiveness? Surely , it can't be
/
| 403 |
opnion Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:39:40am |
re: #392 kansas
It wasn't covered on the major networks. I can tell you what the poll will look like. Nothing to see here.
CNN has taken it up. Even if the polls are mostly "Undecided" beacuse people don't know about it, what a campaign issue for the Republicans in 2010.
| 404 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:39:50am |
re: #397 Irish Rose
My Marine did a tour of the Asian Pacific during his last deployment on the Nimitz. He's hooked on fresh sushi, but at has to be VERY fresh... like, right off the boat fresh.
I can handle raw salmon, but that's about it.
Sushi has to fresh, not a big fan, but done right it's not bad.
Around here I see sushi in a foam tray, shrink wrapped at COSTCO.
Not going there...
| 405 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:40:51am |
re: #397 Irish Rose
My Marine did a tour of the Asian Pacific during his last deployment on the Nimitz. He's hooked on fresh sushi, but at has to be VERY fresh... like, right off the boat fresh.
I can handle raw salmon, but that's about it.
I love fish...Cooked or grilled...
I have a dish that I cook trout in heavy cream and white wine..
Then remove then and stuff the fillets with different cheeses, wrap in foil and bake for 15 minutes.. Remove and serve with the heavy cream sauce over it..
Garnish..Yummy
| 406 |
Killian Bundy Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:41:12am |
re: #400 Chekote
I just went over to Hot Air and watched more Van Jones' videos. Yes he is a lefty. We knew that. So what exactly the uproar all about? Help! Anyone?
/he seems to have a fixation for framing everything in terms of race, as in white people are what's wrong with this country
| 407 |
kansas Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:41:36am |
re: #395 bbuddha
If he's still in place by Tuesday there are going to be republicans using this for all it is worth, the networks will have to cover it. I think.
I'm not sure how effective that will be since the public won't connect Jones to Obama.
| 408 |
opnion Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:41:36am |
re: #400 Chekote
I just went over to Hot Air and watched more Van Jones' videos. Yes he is a lefty. We knew that. So what exactly the uproar all about? Help! Anyone?
He has an unconfirmed by the Senate position, controls 30 Billion Dollars, & it reflects either Obama's own views or really bad judgement.
| 409 |
lawhawk Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:42:00am |
re: Van Jones
His troofer links are looking more persuasive, particularly when you consider that the people Charles notes (that would be both Lerner and Zinn) claimed to have been lied to by the 911 troofer outfits in regards to petition signatures are still posting information to the troofer sites, and continue espousing troofer conspiracy theories there and elsewhere.
Jones ran in these circles of the far left, and under normal circumstances that would have been enough to disqualify him because of the extremists he regularly associated with.
I don't think it's a slam dunk on the trooferism, but there's plenty of other stuff to send Jones packing. That he self-identified as a communist should disqualify him, but this is the Obama White House we're talking about, and he fits in there perfectly.
I'm sure law enforcement just loves the idea of a Mumia lover in the President's ear. Nothing quite like having a cop-killer supporter and proponent of conspiracies relating to Mumia's incarceration having a say in public policy at the highest levels.
Focusing on the trooferism is understandable, particularly with the anniversary of the attacks right around the corner, but his pseudoscience associations are just as troubling, particularly since he's being asked to provide science policy guidance and address spending priorities.
Jones should go, but Obama will keep him on since he's just another fellow traveler.
| 410 |
bbuddha Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:42:36am |
re: #403 opnion
CNN has taken it up. Even if the polls are mostly "Undecided" beacuse people don't know about it, what a campaign issue for the Republicans in 2010.
Looking at this as a chess game, they should have dumped him before the obama media had to take it up. Actually at this point in the game they should have realized people are watching and never appointed him in the first place. They knew exactly what he is.
| 411 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:42:50am |
why did it take this long for this hero to be recognized?
[Link: www.jpost.com...]
He'r right up there with Wallenberg and Schindler in my book!
| 412 |
gymmom Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:43:21am |
re: #405 HoosierHoops
I love fish...Cooked or grilled...
I have a dish that I cook trout in heavy cream and white wine..
Then remove then and stuff the fillets with different cheeses, wrap in foil and bake for 15 minutes.. Remove and serve with the heavy cream sauce over it..
Garnish..Yummy
Wow, that sounds great. Is the recipe in the cookbook? or in the future one?
While growing up went camping on trout streams frequently. The fresh trout was lways the favorite meal. I think my mom just put on some corn meal and fried it in the skillet.
| 414 |
bbuddha Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:44:35am |
re: #405 HoosierHoops
Can you send me the recipe? I can't cook but my other half is very good at it. That sounds heavenly
| 415 |
lincolntf Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:44:51am |
re: #403 opnion
Seriously. Once we get beyond all the defensive hysteria that will accompany Van's (likely) banishment, the larger issue is Obama's judgment (again).
| 416 |
lawhawk Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:45:08am |
re: #396 _RememberTonyC
Housing isn't a war crime. And if the Palestinians were serious about peace, the construction of communities wouldn't be an issue since you can always sell/transfer housing from one group to another. It happened before - Gaza and Sinai. In the former case, the Gazans turned the Israeli communities into terror training camps and rocket and mortar launching facilities. In the latter, Egypt made a peace deal with Israel - one that has meant no open war between the two countries for 30 years (since 1979). The Egyptians could do more to crack down on the smugglers allowing Hamas to rearm in Gaza, but they have done a fairly good job of keeping the peace. That's what you get when you have a regime interested in peace.
The Palestinians show absolutely no signs of intending peace with Israel, and until they do, all the talk about settlements is window dressing and obscures the real obstacles to peace - the Palestinian terror regime that runs the show.
| 417 |
opnion Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:48:08am |
re: #410 bbuddha
Looking at this as a chess game, they should have dumped him before the obama media had to take it up. Actually at this point in the game they should have realized people are watching and never appointed him in the first place. They knew exactly what he is.
Of course they did. BHO traveled in far left circles & Van Jones had to be familiar ti him.
He just thought that he could get away with anything, but the wheels are strating to come off.
I hear ,lots of assertions that the Repblican Party is dying, but they lead in all of the generic polls. Great job Barry!
| 418 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:48:40am |
re: #412 gymmom
Wow, that sounds great. Is the recipe in the cookbook? or in the future one?
While growing up went camping on trout streams frequently. The fresh trout was lways the favorite meal. I think my mom just put on some corn meal and fried it in the skillet.
I think I have 2 or 3 recipes in the first cookbook including the original recipe for the original Waldorf Salad from NY.
I've got a few idea's for the next one...Tender Walleye fish lightly grilled marinated in a special sauce served with the best home made Dill sauce on Earth...
| 419 |
opnion Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:48:48am |
re: #415 lincolntf
Seriously. Once we get beyond all the defensive hysteria that will accompany Van's (likely) banishment, the larger issue is Obama's judgment (again).
I agree, that is the real issue.
| 421 |
bbuddha Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:49:50am |
re: #416 lawhawk
Housing isn't a war crime. And if the Palestinians were serious about peace, the construction of communities wouldn't be an issue since you can always sell/transfer housing from one group to another. It happened before - Gaza and Sinai. In the former case, the Gazans turned the Israeli communities into terror training camps and rocket and mortar launching facilities. In the latter, Egypt made a peace deal with Israel - one that has meant no open war between the two countries for 30 years (since 1979). The Egyptians could do more to crack down on the smugglers allowing Hamas to rearm in Gaza, but they have done a fairly good job of keeping the peace. That's what you get when you have a regime interested in peace.
The Palestinians show absolutely no signs of intending peace with Israel, and until they do, all the talk about settlements is window dressing and obscures the real obstacles to peace - the Palestinian terror regime that runs the show.
Absolutely. If you follow what has been going on you realize that palis don't want peace they want Israel to go away. They have been pretty open about that.
| 422 |
lawhawk Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:51:16am |
re: #415 lincolntf
Obama's character and judgment have been questionable from the moment he announced his run for the White House. They haven't changed. If anything, his performance to date has been exactly as predicted. He's inexperienced on foreign policy and seeks to appease and kowtow to terrorists and terror-sponsoring regimes. His domestic policy is a mess, so he's attempted to push a ME peace process, which is moribund because Hamas and the Palestinians refuse to accept a Jewish state of Israel in a 2-state peace process.
His selection of tax cheats and those with ethics flaps for key positions shows he lacks attention to detail. It also shows he can't judge character and fitness in others. The inability to fill key positions at Treasury shows lack of judgment - particularly in one of the most serious economic crisis the nation has seen, hamstringing whatever economic policies he hopes to pursue.
His persistent attempts to use the bully pulpit to push his agenda through is a welcome change from Bush's failure to do so, but it is so ingrained in this Administration that it's taken on the form of a perpetual campaign and Obama is failing to do what he was supposed to do, which is lead. On health care, he let Congress push the process, and it turned into a disaster. He's now trying to push his own proposals, but public opinion is now soured on health care overhaul.
| 423 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:51:48am |
Good morning everyone.
Watching Thomas Sowell speak (video posted on the Conflict of visions book thread of last night).
He talks about the failure of Roosevelt's New Deal policies to improve unemployment until WW2 took 12 million men out of the work force, and relates that to the current government intervention in the economy creating uncertainty:
"Once you start intervening, it's not just a question of the merit of the particular intervention, it's that nobody knows when you're going to intervene again. And that's true now. No one said you could fire the president of General Motors by giving them this money, but once they decided they were going to do it, they can do it. And so nobody knows what's going to happen next."
| 425 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:53:17am |
re: #421 bbuddha
Absolutely. If you follow what has been going on you realize that palis don't want peace they want Israel to go away. They have been pretty open about that.
The squalor and misery of "refugee camps" are part of the propaganda effort to make Israel "look" bad.
| 426 |
Killian Bundy Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:53:29am |
re: #407 kansas
the public won't connect Jones to Obama.
Obama had to know exactly who they were hiring.
/Valerie Jarrett ranks right up there with Axelrod and Emanuel
| 427 |
Killian Bundy Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:54:26am |
re: #426 Killian Bundy
=relatedObama had to know exactly who they were hiring.
/Valerie Jarrett ranks right up there with Axelrod and Emanuel
/bad link
| 428 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:54:49am |
re: #416 lawhawk
Housing isn't a war crime. And if the Palestinians were serious about peace, the construction of communities wouldn't be an issue since you can always sell/transfer housing from one group to another. It happened before - Gaza and Sinai. In the former case, the Gazans turned the Israeli communities into terror training camps and rocket and mortar launching facilities. In the latter, Egypt made a peace deal with Israel - one that has meant no open war between the two countries for 30 years (since 1979). The Egyptians could do more to crack down on the smugglers allowing Hamas to rearm in Gaza, but they have done a fairly good job of keeping the peace. That's what you get when you have a regime interested in peace.
The Palestinians show absolutely no signs of intending peace with Israel, and until they do, all the talk about settlements is window dressing and obscures the real obstacles to peace - the Palestinian terror regime that runs the show.
lawhawk ... there will NEVER be comprehensive peace for Israel with all of the arab/muslim neighbors, unless peace is defined as the disappearance of Israel. Agree or disagree?
| 429 |
KenJen Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:55:47am |
re: #422 lawhawk
This post should be saved and given to Obama's opponent in 2012. Perfect for a smack down in the debates.
| 430 |
bbuddha Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:55:55am |
Gotta go, Coffee is gone so it's time to start chores. have a great day everyone.
| 431 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:57:44am |
re: #428 _RememberTonyC
lawhawk ... there will NEVER be comprehensive peace for Israel with all of the arab/muslim neighbors, unless peace is defined as the disappearance of Israel. Agree or disagree?
So then, following the logic, the actual statements should be: unless peace is defined as the disappearance of Israel or their Arab/Muslim neighbours?
I think can be achieved. I think it is worth continually trying for. After all, what is the alternative?
| 432 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:58:40am |
re: #428 _RememberTonyC
lawhawk ... there will NEVER be comprehensive peace for Israel with all of the arab/muslim neighbors, unless peace is defined as the disappearance of Israel. Agree or disagree?
That's pretty well defined in Hamas' charter. Hamas
Unless they change their attitude, I see a self perpetuating festering sore.
| 433 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:58:56am |
re: #423 jaunte
Good morning everyone.
Watching Thomas Sowell speak (video posted on the Conflict of visions book thread of last night).
He talks about the failure of Roosevelt's New Deal policies to improve unemployment until WW2 took 12 million men out of the work force, and relates that to the current government intervention in the economy creating uncertainty:"Once you start intervening, it's not just a question of the merit of the particular intervention, it's that nobody knows when you're going to intervene again. And that's true now. No one said you could fire the president of General Motors by giving them this money, but once they decided they were going to do it, they can do it. And so nobody knows what's going to happen next."
We have yet to break with the Hoover / Roosevelt government interventionists governments. We have a bankrupt nation with the debt/deficit/unfunded mandates and individual liberty is more and more limited.
| 434 |
Chekote Sat, Sep 5, 2009 7:59:53am |
We have yet to break with the Hoover / Roosevelt government interventionists governments. We have a bankrupt nation with the debt/deficit/unfunded mandates and individual liberty is more and more limited.
Well said.
| 435 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:01:16am |
re: #434 Chekote
I'm not sure what you're referencing with 'unfunded mandates'. Can you educate me on the subject please?
| 436 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:01:36am |
re: #431 Diego
So then, following the logic, the actual statements should be: unless peace is defined as the disappearance of Israel or their Arab/Muslim neighbours?
I think can be achieved. I think it is worth continually trying for. After all, what is the alternative?
the alternative is for Israel to arm itself to the teeth and make sure that anytime someone makes a move at them, they respond with such overwhelming force that their "neighbors" pay a price that is severe. national suicide is not an option for Israel. And maybe, just MAYBE the "neighbors" will eventually understand that israel will not voluntarily go away and perhaps they'll leave Israel alone. I believe the chances of that happening are next to zero.
| 437 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:02:17am |
re: #434 Chekote
Well said.
We managed a pause with RWR, but I think we need a roll back.
More individual liberty / responsibility and less government.
| 438 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:02:32am |
re: #436 _RememberTonyC
the alternative is for Israel to arm itself to the teeth and make sure that anytime someone makes a move at them, they respond with such overwhelming force that their "neighbors" pay a price that is severe.
But..isn't that where we are now?
| 439 |
right_wing2 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:03:19am |
re: #431 Diego
Israel would be willing to live with an Arab/Muslim state, as long as that state wasn't endlessly trying to destroy them.
| 440 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:03:19am |
re: #435 Diego
I'm not sure what you're referencing with 'unfunded mandates'. Can you educate me on the subject please?
Social Security and Medicad. Total around $60 Trillion in obligations with no plan to pay the obligations.
| 441 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:03:26am |
re: #435 Diego
Intergovernmental Mandates under UMRA that Exceed the Threshold (listed by date of enactment)
[Link: www.ncsl.org...]
| 443 |
lawhawk Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:05:07am |
re: #428 _RememberTonyC
I disagree. There's no need for comprehensive peace agreements. The fact that Egypt and Jordan signed deals independent of a comprehensive deal gives lie to the need for a comprehensive deal. What it will take is a ratcheting down of the anti-Israel rhetoric, and regime changes in Iran and Syria. Both of those countries continue spreading anti-Israel rhetoric and funding terror regimes in Hamas, Hizbullah and their spinoffs. They're fostering the destabilization in Lebanon. Eliminate the funding for those groups, and you'd see more progress in a short period of time than anything else.
Without those two destabilizing forces, Israel's security interests would be vastly improved, as would the lives of Arabs living throughout the region. It would lead to improved economic growth and development.
Israel can and has made peace with its neighbors. Peace with Jordan was done without exchange of territory, showing that land for peace isn't necessary. A new regime in Damascus could hasten peace, and improve the situation in Lebanon as well. As situations improve in various countries, Israel can cut peace deals individually. Some of the smaller regimes in the region (Gulf States particularly) would likely make peace deals with Israel if their security concerns could be addressed (worry about al Qaeda going after them if they cut peace deals with Israel), and not wanting to be ahead of public opinion. I think once a few other regimes start making peace deals, the rest will eventually come, because they could see the economic benefits.
| 444 |
jorline Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:05:32am |
re: #418 HoosierHoops
I think I have 2 or 3 recipes in the first cookbook including the original recipe for the original Waldorf Salad from NY.
I've got a few idea's for the next one...Tender Walleye fish lightly grilled marinated in a special sauce served with the best home made Dill sauce on Earth...
Hey Hoopster
I may have to steal that Dill sauce recipe for the restaurant...we'll call it Hoopster Sauce...lol I'm now serving yellowfin tuna with a garlic/dill sauce.
| 445 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:06:03am |
re: #438 Diego
But..isn't that where we are now?
no. Israel has never really UNLOADED on its enemies. what you have seen is unbelievable restraint on Israel's part. That is because Israel is a democracy run by mostly moral individuals. They could have leveled syria, lebanon, and gaza and been back in time for lunch if they wanted to. But they respect human life and that morality is used against them by their "neighbors" and the world community.
| 446 |
opnion Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:07:11am |
re: #442 Diego
Okay. And the solution might be..?
Diego, youe young aren't you? I mean that as a compliment.
Unfunded mandates are not unfunded if you fund them.
| 447 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:07:14am |
re: #438 Diego
But..isn't that where we are now?
The Palestinian have rejected the offer of a state something like 5 times, not being willing to live with a State of Israel. At Olso, Israel conceded to 95% of the Pali demands, and the Palis responded with the Intafada. Israel has been attacked in '48, '67 and '73, and continuously under assault.
Read this LGF classic, Nekama's Troll Hammer.
| 448 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:07:59am |
re: #444 jorline
Hey Hoopster
I may have to steal that Dill sauce recipe for the restaurant...we'll call it Hoopster Sauce...lol I'm now serving yellowfin tuna with a garlic/dill sauce.
Hi Jorline...I'll get it to you to try...
Tuna! I'm now starving!
| 449 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:08:46am |
re: #443 lawhawk
I disagree. There's no need for comprehensive peace agreements. The fact that Egypt and Jordan signed deals independent of a comprehensive deal gives lie to the need for a comprehensive deal. What it will take is a ratcheting down of the anti-Israel rhetoric, and regime changes in Iran and Syria. Both of those countries continue spreading anti-Israel rhetoric and funding terror regimes in Hamas, Hizbullah and their spinoffs. They're fostering the destabilization in Lebanon. Eliminate the funding for those groups, and you'd see more progress in a short period of time than anything else.
Without those two destabilizing forces, Israel's security interests would be vastly improved, as would the lives of Arabs living throughout the region. It would lead to improved economic growth and development.
Israel can and has made peace with its neighbors. Peace with Jordan was done without exchange of territory, showing that land for peace isn't necessary. A new regime in Damascus could hasten peace, and improve the situation in Lebanon as well. As situations improve in various countries, Israel can cut peace deals individually. Some of the smaller regimes in the region (Gulf States particularly) would likely make peace deals with Israel if their security concerns could be addressed (worry about al Qaeda going after them if they cut peace deals with Israel), and not wanting to be ahead of public opinion. I think once a few other regimes start making peace deals, the rest will eventually come, because they could see the economic benefits.
that was very well said and I believe you are mostly right. but with no representative leadership in the countries at war with Israel, and no tolerance for alternate attitudes towards Israel in those countries, how can peaceful attitudes take root?
| 450 |
lawhawk Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:10:56am |
re: #438 Diego
Israel was unbelievably restrained in its 1967 and 1973 wars. It chose to not completely destroy the encircled Egyptian army in 1973, opening the door to Cairo. It could have sent its tank columns into Damascus, with complete air supremacy. Such a display would have been tangible signs of defeat that could not be spun as anything but. The lie of the heroic victory in 1967 and 1973 (which was later spun to be a heroic defense of Syria and Egypt) is perpetuated to this day, even though both nations' armed forces were in ruins after Israel's savaging of their armies in combat on Israeli soil - particularly in 1973.
Assad realized that he couldn't contest a war with Israel directly, so the proxy terror group became his preferred method. Sadat realized peace was his only option, and he paid for it with his life, but 30 years later, there is a lasting peace deal between the two countries.
There are too few Sadats and far too many Assads in the Middle East. Until that changes, Israel has no choice but to be armed to the teeth and prepare against all manner of attack, including nuclear Armageddon at the hands of the mad mullahs in Iran.
| 451 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:11:15am |
re: #442 Diego
Okay. And the solution might be..?
Cut spending. We have a spending problem.
Roll back taxes to increase revenue, see the Laffer Curve, it works every time its been tried.
Recognize SS and Medicad are ponzi schemes.
We need to move away from them, so those now entering the work force have their own health savings, and retirement accounts, not something that congress can raid to buy votes.
A balanced budget amendment, included debt payments, just like everyone in the real world does.
| 452 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:11:16am |
re: #446 opnion
I'm 44, take that as young if you prefer.
You said 'bankrupt nation with..unfunded mandates'. I don't get how the two mesh. How does a 'bankrupt nation' fund the unfunded? Surely if they're unfunded, or underfunded, and the nation is bankrupt, the only answer is to cancel the 'unfunded mandates'?
| 453 |
opnion Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:11:50am |
re: #449 _RememberTonyC
that was very well said and I believe you are mostly right. but with no representative leadership in the countries at war with Israel, and no tolerance for alternate attitudes towards Israel in those countries, how can peaceful attitudes take root?
Jews are unfortuanately demonized all over Islam. Look at the Koran & the words of the nutty Prophet.
Right in the Middle East is a Jewish State that is Western & successful & too many Arabs can't stand it.
| 454 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:12:26am |
re: #452 Diego
I'm 44, take that as young if you prefer.
You said 'bankrupt nation with..unfunded mandates'. I don't get how the two mesh. How does a 'bankrupt nation' fund the unfunded? Surely if they're unfunded, or underfunded, and the nation is bankrupt, the only answer is to cancel the 'unfunded mandates'?
Print more Money!
Where is 3 wood when you need an expert?
| 456 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:13:35am |
re: #452 Diego
the only answer is to cancel the 'unfunded mandates'?
That would be the best solution.
| 457 |
Killian Bundy Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:13:38am |
/hey, I have a disturbing, anti-American idea, how about if Obama puts this Chavez admirer in charge of the FCC?
| 458 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:13:42am |
re: #454 HoosierHoops
Print more Money!
Where is 3 wood when you need an expert?
How is 3wood, Hoosier? Wasn't he worried about losing his job?
| 459 |
kansas Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:14:53am |
re: #457 Killian Bundy
/hey, I have a disturbing, anti-American idea, how about if Obama puts this Chavez admirer in charge of the FCC?
He wouldn't do that...what?...shit.
| 460 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:14:59am |
re: #457 Killian Bundy
/hey, I have a disturbing, anti-American idea, how about if Obama puts this Chavez admirer in charge of the FCC?
I heard that guy the other day ... ugh
| 461 |
KenJen Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:15:06am |
re: #457 Killian Bundy
/hey, I have a disturbing, anti-American idea, how about if Obama puts this Chavez admirer in charge of the FCC?
At this point I would not be suprised.
| 463 |
kansas Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:15:43am |
Where are the overnight KosKidz calling us wingnuts?
| 464 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:15:47am |
re: #458 _RememberTonyC
How is 3wood, Hoosier? Wasn't he worried about losing his job?
I think he said he has 90 days...Somebody with his knowledge on the Financial network and inner workings won't be sitting home for long.
| 465 |
Killian Bundy Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:15:56am |
| 466 |
kansas Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:16:09am |
| 467 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:16:31am |
re: #457 Killian Bundy
/hey, I have a disturbing, anti-American idea, how about if Obama puts this Chavez admirer in charge of the FCC?
What could possibly go wrong?
| 468 |
KenJen Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:17:12am |
| 469 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:17:14am |
re: #464 HoosierHoops
I think he said he has 90 days...Somebody with his knowledge on the Financial network and inner workings won't be sitting home for long.
Thanks for the update ... He's a good guy ... I hope he does OK for himself.
| 470 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:17:21am |
re: #456 Van Helsing
That would be the best solution.
But how does that mesh with the GOP's "Seniors' health care Bill Of Rights" that opposes any moves to trim Medicare spending??
| 471 |
kansas Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:17:52am |
On way to office this morning. Union sticker and Obama sticker in back window. I want to ask how that's working out for him.
| 472 |
Killian Bundy Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:18:13am |
re: #465 Killian Bundy
/he's already in charge of the FCC
Oops, my bad.
/he's only the new diversity officer of the FCC
| 473 |
kansas Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:18:35am |
| 474 |
_RememberTonyC Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:18:38am |
I'm out for awhile ... gonna take a nice long walk on a beautiful late summer day in New England. See y'all later!
| 475 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:18:38am |
re: #455 Diego
So, Medicare and Medicaid should be stopped?
Transitioned to privately owned accounts that congress can't steal.
Those close to retirement get the current system (sorry) those just entering the work force would contribute to their own accounts for retire and health care.
This accounts may be mandated so people don't reach retirement and go OH SHIT I WAS A STUPID FUCK AND DIDN'T SAVE. But on the other hand I don't have a lot of sympathy for folks like that. Why should they spend all their money during their working life, while I save. Then at the end DEMAND I pay for their retirement and health care? (Ant and Grasshopper)
| 476 |
kansas Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:19:23am |
re: #472 Killian Bundy
Oops, my bad.
/he's only the new diversity officer of the FCC
Remember, our strength is in our diversity. Or not.
| 477 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:20:16am |
re: #475 jcm
Privately owned accounts? Held where? WHat would the nature of these accounts be and are 401's not 'privately owned accounts'?
| 478 |
kansas Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:20:18am |
re: #475 jcm
Transitioned to privately owned accounts that congress can't steal.
Those close to retirement get the current system (sorry) those just entering the work force would contribute to their own accounts for retire and health care.This accounts may be mandated so people don't reach retirement and go OH SHIT I WAS A STUPID FUCK AND DIDN'T SAVE. But on the other hand I don't have a lot of sympathy for folks like that. Why should they spend all their money during their working life, while I save. Then at the end DEMAND I pay for their retirement and health care? (Ant and Grasshopper)
I am sick of this shit. It is my turn to get on the gimme train.
| 479 |
avanti Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:20:54am |
This article sums up my opinions on the war in Afghanistan pretty well. I think the call by George Will to withdraw is as wrong headed as the left's call to cut and run in Iraq.
| 480 |
haakondahl Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:21:08am |
re: #435 Diego
I'm not sure what you're referencing with 'unfunded mandates'. Can you educate me on the subject please?
If you don't know what an unfunded mandate is then don't bother debating policy. Your honesty is admirable. Your ignorance is treatable. But you don't know what you're talking about. Here is one description of unfunded mandates, from wisegeek.com:
A prime example of an unfunded mandate is a national election. Each state administers the election for its residents. Though these elections end with the appointment of federal officials, it is the individual states that pay the cost of running the local elections.Not surprisingly, unfunded mandates are a hot topic among the politically inclined. Many believe laws imposed by the federal government should require federal funding of those laws. They feel unfunded mandates place an unfair burden on lower levels of government, creating huge, unmanageable expenses for state and city governments.
Some politicians complain that a large portion of a city's budget is determined by the federal government, rather than by the local government. They assert that unfunded mandates create such localized financial stress that local governments are unable to create many beneficial programs or reduce taxes for residents. An unfunded mandate, they claim, has the effect of taking control out of the hands of local government.
Other politicians have a different view of unfunded mandate costs. They assert that local government officials have more control over spending than they want to admit. For example, a federal law may require a state to pay a percentage of the cost of implementing that law, yet allow the local government a good deal of latitude in determining which services to provide. If the local government chooses to provide very costly services, the expense for that state could be quite high. Therefore, some politicians claim, it is individual state spending that causes problems, not unfunded mandates.
Many politicians who disagree with limiting unfunded mandates believe that doing so would work against the ties that bind us together as a country. They argue that local governments should pay some or all of the cost of local law implementation. Others agree that the concept of the unfunded mandate is unfair, but do not believe that unfunded mandates cause most local governments' budgetary problems.
On 15 March 1995, the Unfunded Mandates Reform Act (UMRA) was enacted, setting up procedures to keep congress from imposing costs on states without appropriating funds. The UMRA requires analysis of any bill expected to cost state, tribunal, or local governments more that US$50 million. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) must perform this analysis. The same type of analysis is required for bills projected to cost the private sector US$100 million or more.
If a mandate is expected to cost lower levels of government or the private sector more than US$100 million, house and senate committees are required to show where funding will come from to offset these costs. If a committee fails to provide this information, the bill can be removed from consideration. However, a majority vote can keep such a bill alive, resulting in an expensive unfunded mandate.
Furthermore, the UMRA requires consultation with state, local, and tribunal governments about any proposed laws or regulations that may include an unfunded mandate. Assessments must be performed for such proposals. If assessments are not performed, the particular law or regulation is subject to judicial review.
The unfunded mandate debate continues to rage on. Some politicians believe the UMRA is effective at controlling costs imposed on local governments. Others, however, assert a need for further reform.
| 481 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:24:19am |
re: #470 Diego
But how does that mesh with the GOP's "Seniors' health care Bill Of Rights" that opposes any moves to trim Medicare spending??
Not well at all.
This is the problem with ALL the entitlement programs. Once installed they can never be cut, and never be altered even if it results in an actual improvement.
Everytime Social Security is brought up as heading toward insolvency any attempts to deal with the problem are attacked.
There are probably better ways to deal with the Medicare/Medicaid than what we have. But we're not likely to find out in our lifetimes.
Our without a very, very large change in people's attitude towards the federal government.
There are far too many folks that don't quite get that the while the government can indeed PRINT money, they don't really MAKE money.
EVERYTHING they do is funded by taking from someone.
| 482 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:24:42am |
More about unfunded mandates
The Unfunded Mandates Reform Act (UMRA) is now in its second decade. Although fewer than a dozen mandates have been enacted that exceed the threshold established in UMRA (see below), Congress has shifted at least $131 billion in costs to states over the past five years, according to NCSL's Mandate Monitor. The Mandate Monitor uses a definition of "unfunded mandate" that is broader than the one included in UMRA, because state and local officials view unfunded mandates more expansively. They interpret almost any federal decision that requires them to spend state or local funds as a cost shift.
This includes legislation that:- Establishes a condition of grant in aid.
- Reduces current funds available (including a reduction in the federal match rate or a reduction in available administrative or programmatic funds) to state and local governments for existing programs without a similar reduction in requirements.
- Extends or expands existing or expiring mandates.
- Establishes durational goals to comply with federal statutes or regulations with the caveat that if a state fails to comply they face a loss of federal funds--a condition of grant aid.
- Creates a loss in state/local funds.
- Compels coverage of a certain population/age group/other factor under a current program without providing full or adequate funding for this coverage.
- Creates underfunded national expectations, i.e., homeland security.
[Link: www.ncsl.org...]
| 483 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:26:09am |
re: #477 Diego
Privately owned accounts? Held where? WHat would the nature of these accounts be and are 401's not 'privately owned accounts'?
Does it matter.
Ever hear of individual responsibility? If I took all the money I've had taken from me for my good for SS, and invested in my own accounts I'd have a couple of million and by retirement enough to live very comfortably.
Why not make it real easy. Every person is require to save a minimum of x% for both an HSA and retirement, diversified etc...
| 484 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:26:10am |
re: #479 avanti
This article sums up my opinions on the war in Afghanistan pretty well. I think the call by George Will to withdraw is as wrong headed as the left's call to cut and run in Iraq.
Congratulations on the new daughter-in-law...
May your Son and his new bride find success and Happiness in the future
| 485 |
haakondahl Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:27:49am |
| 486 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:28:05am |
re: #478 kansas
I am sick of this shit. It is my turn to get on the gimme train.
And that is exactly why these types of systems inevitably collapse. It is not human nature to continue to strive when all you see are diminishing returns for your effort and increasing bounty for those that are not striving as hard you.
Equality of opportunity has never meant equality of results.
Free people are not equal, equal people are not free.
| 487 |
kansas Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:29:11am |
re: #479 avanti
This article sums up my opinions on the war in Afghanistan pretty well. I think the call by George Will to withdraw is as wrong headed as the left's call to cut and run in Iraq.
For sure either shit or get off the pot. Send everything or withdraw. With a weenie who feels uncomfortable using the term victory in charge, I say get the fuck out.
| 488 |
avanti Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:29:32am |
re: #484 HoosierHoops
Congratulations on the new daughter-in-law...
May your Son and his new bride find success and Happiness in the future
Thanks so much, she's quite a catch.
| 489 |
kansas Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:30:01am |
re: #486 Van Helsing
And that is exactly why these types of systems inevitably collapse. It is not human nature to continue to strive when all you see are diminishing returns for your effort and increasing bounty for those that are not striving as hard you.
Equality of opportunity has never meant equality of results.
Free people are not equal, equal people are not free.
I hope it waits to collapse until you younguns support me for a few years.
| 490 |
KenJen Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:30:23am |
Later Lizards. Hope everyone has a safe and fun Labor Day weekend. My birthday is tomorrow. Hope I get a lot of good stuff.
| 491 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:31:33am |
re: #483 jcm
If I took all the money I've had taken from me for my good for SS, and invested in my own accounts I'd have a couple of million and by retirement enough to live very comfortably.
Wouldn't that depend on the stock market just as the 401's are, which were trashed when the market collapsed? And so, what do you tell someone who has lost everything and is about to retire? 'Tough'?
| 492 |
avanti Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:34:13am |
re: #487 kansas
For sure either shit or get off the pot. Send everything or withdraw. With a weenie who feels uncomfortable using the term victory in charge, I say get the fuck out.
That's really now fair, Obama's added 17,000 troops, increased the use of the drones that Bush started, and put a new guy in charge, all pissing off some on the left that wants to cut and run.
| 493 |
kansas Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:34:24am |
re: #491 Diego
Wouldn't that depend on the stock market just as the 401's are, which were trashed when the market collapsed? And so, what do you tell someone who has lost everything and is about to retire? 'Tough'?
Yeah if you dumped everything in in the few months when it was approaching 14,000. However, if you had been in for 10 years or more before that, you are still doing well as it appoaches 10,000 again. And, if you were lucky like me, you went to cash last year and have been on this ride from 6,500 to 9,500 which has been peachy. Now if the Messiah could manage some policies that would encourage job growth.
| 494 |
kansas Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:35:25am |
re: #492 avanti
That's really now fair, Obama's added 17,000 troops, increased the use of the drones that Bush started, and put a new guy in charge, all pissing off some on the left that wants to cut and run.
Send more, and get nasty then, and say the word victory. I've heard the rules of engagement over there are getting to be like Viet Nam.
| 495 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:36:39am |
re: #491 Diego
Wouldn't that depend on the stock market just as the 401's are, which were trashed when the market collapsed? And so, what do you tell someone who has lost everything and is about to retire? 'Tough'?
Prudent 401K plans didn't "lose everything" when the market collpased. They went down a percentage, but are still worth $$$. As to a retiree, he wouldn't be taking all that out in a lump sum, therefore it was a paper loss, not an actual loss. He would still have the majority of it to draw off of and the 401K plan would still be earning as the market now recovers
| 496 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:37:17am |
re: #491 Diego
Wouldn't that depend on the stock market just as the 401's are, which were trashed when the market collapsed? And so, what do you tell someone who has lost everything and is about to retire? 'Tough'?
Over the long term, a working career, savings are rarely completely lost. Unless you've put everything in one place. If you have a properly diversified account you have principal that's not at risk and the closer to retirement the more principal you move to low risk investments and accounts.
SS was originally a safety net for just that type thing, then it became an entitlement and many people came to rely on it for retirement.
Of course there would have to an insurance program against catastrophic loss.
The system we have now, what the government takes form you telling you it's for your retirement they STEAL and use it to buy votes with earmarks.
| 497 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:37:45am |
re: #493 kansas
Oh, 'the Messiah' is it? I thought we were having an intelligent conversation and I was enjoying it. Never mind.
| 498 |
kansas Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:39:46am |
re: #497 Diego
Oh, 'the Messiah' is it? I thought we were having an intelligent conversation and I was enjoying it. Never mind.
OK, sorry. If President Obama could manage some policies that would encourage job growth, that would help.
| 499 |
lawhawk Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:41:34am |
re: #477 Diego
401ks are privately owned accounts named for 26 USC 401(k), the tax law provision allowing the creation of retirement accounts and the tax ramifications of such accounts. They are managed by private brokerage companies - Fidelity, Vanguard, etc., and can include any number of stock and equity investments.
HSAs are an imperfect equivalent to the 401k for health care spending. You can save money in an HSA, which can be used for health care expenditures. The money is tax free, and the money is yours. You know how much is in the account, and control how it is spent. It's basically a savings account, rather than in investment account.
re: #491 Diego
The long term growth of the stock markets have provided a regular rate of return, so while a short term disruption can mean a big hit on investments, if you're dollar cost averaging your purchases via a 401k, you'll be able to take advantage of the down markets to buy more shares that will end up making money over the long run.
| 500 |
cliffster Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:41:57am |
re: #495 sattv4u2
Prudent 401K plans didn't "lose everything" when the market collpased. They went down a percentage, but are still worth $$$. As to a retiree, he wouldn't be taking all that out in a lump sum, therefore it was a paper loss, not an actual loss. He would still have the majority of it to draw off of and the 401K plan would still be earning as the market now recovers
If someone is that close to retirement, then very little of that person's savings should be in stocks. The closer you get to retirement, the more you shift to low-risk investments. I hate hearing stories of people losing all this value when they were about to retire, but that's the reason why you have to invest smartly. If one were invested smartly, then the collapse would have not impacted one's retirement at all.
| 501 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:42:06am |
re: #494 kansas
Send more, and get nasty then, and say the word victory. I've heard the rules of engagement over there are getting to be like Viet Nam.
Worse - Troops are not engage unless they be certain of no civilian casualties.
In such situations they are to retreat if it all possible.
Can't shoot unless target has a weapon in hand.
There's others, but I can't find the damn link.
This makes it real easy for the Taliban - don't move without a family around you and when you're done shooting at troops (for the time being) cache your weapons and ammo for another day.
| 502 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:43:33am |
re: #498 kansas
Well, I'm sure he would like that very much as well tbh. Any idea on that front?
As for the 'entitlements', I can see two sides on one such coin: armed services pensions. I agree that if you served int eh armed services you should have a retirement pension, but then what if you are already rich? Should you still get that pension or is it an abuse of the system to receive a pension which you don't actually need?
| 503 |
haakondahl Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:44:33am |
re: #492 avanti
That's really now fair, Obama's added 17,000 troops, increased the use of the drones that Bush started, and put a new guy in charge, all pissing off some on the left that wants to cut and run.
I was disappointed that he halved Bush's planned increase.
I was relieved that he sent what he did. I don't know where he is on the war, but I know that a LOT of his base is still bouncing on Harry Reid's "unwinnable" trampoline. So I gotta hand it to the prez--he did a difficult thing, unpopular with his base, and it was the right thing to do.
| 505 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:45:42am |
re: #503 haakondahl
So I gotta hand it to the prez--he did a difficult thing, unpopular with his base, and it was the right thing to do.
/me falls off his chair..
| 506 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:46:01am |
re: #496 jcm
The system we have now, what the government takes form you telling you it's for your retirement they STEAL and use it to buy votes with earmarks.
Thanks a lot, LBJ. /
Medicare was added in 1965 by the Social Security Act of 1965, part of President Lyndon B. Johnson's "Great Society" program. Social Security was changed to withdraw funds from the independent "Trust Fund" and put it into the General Fund for additional congressional revenue.
| 508 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:47:51am |
re: #502 Diego
Well, I'm sure he would like that very much as well tbh. Any idea on that front?
As for the 'entitlements', I can see two sides on one such coin: armed services pensions. I agree that if you served int eh armed services you should have a retirement pension, but then what if you are already rich? Should you still get that pension or is it an abuse of the system to receive a pension which you don't actually need?
Armed services pensions aren't entitlements. They are earned for service performed.
Means testing is just another way of "spreading the wealth" if a some one has done 20 years in the military they earned the pension regardless of other resources.
SS is paid out regardless of amount paid in.
There has been talk of means testing SS. Where those who've paid the maximum amount in will get nothing out, because they *gasp* were successful.
| 509 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:48:49am |
re: #502 Diego
Well, I'm sure he would like that very much as well tbh. Any idea on that front?
As for the 'entitlements', I can see two sides on one such coin: armed services pensions. I agree that if you served int eh armed services you should have a retirement pension, but then what if you are already rich? Should you still get that pension or is it an abuse of the system to receive a pension which you don't actually need?
The pension is part of the contract when they sign up for a relatively low pay job that does have the fringe benefit of being sent to shitty places where people try to kill you.
Should they manage to get rich after retiring from the service, more power to them. If they want to donate their pension, fine. Don't take it from them.
I believe that for civilians social security does have rules that diminish your payouts based on any income you might have.
| 510 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:51:59am |
Well, it seems to me it's coming down to personal responsibility and if you end up broke when you're old then tough. I can see why that would be so, but at the same time I find it difficult to accept.
Doesn't it go hand-in-hand that if you require people to save, whichever way you support, you should support requiring people to invest in health insurance?
| 511 |
SixDegrees Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:53:25am |
re: #498 kansas
OK, sorry. If President Obama could manage some policies that would encourage job growth, that would help.
Unlikely. At the moment, the Administration wants to get nationalized health care launched, and the more people who are out of work or waiting for the shoe to drop on their jobs the more support there is for such a plan out of sheer fear.
Also, the midterms aren't for more than a year; politicians don't have a big incentive to listen to their constituents griping about high unemployment, because they won't face any consequences for those high rates for at least a few more month, once the campaign season moves into full swing.
In short, there's simply no incentive to boost the employment rate, and the climate of fear induced by the current high rates works to the Administration's advantage.
It isn't that the Administration is actively promoting such fear and uncertainty and destruction of security. But it doesn't serve their purposes at this point to do anything about them, and there's no meaningful pressure from the electorate at this moment.
This is why Congress has been hell-bent on ramming a health care bill through at breakneck speed - before October, and before the midterm election cycle gets underway. Things haven't worked out nearly as well as they might have hoped, but don't look for any real job creation from the Administration or Congress for the next few months. It simply doesn't do them any good at this point.
| 512 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:53:42am |
re: #510 Diego
The question then becomes, when you begin to require people to do what is beneficial for them, at what point do you stop?
| 513 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:54:32am |
re: #511 SixDegrees
How are you defining 'nationalized health care'?
| 514 |
Gang of One Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:56:00am |
re: #499 lawhawk
Law, good morning. At the risk of sounding completely irresponsible and neglectful, I recall reading several posts by you [I'm sure it was you] a few weeks back inre: human rights vs. civil rights. Another Lizard was kind enough to link but I did not save them to my faves. I was hoping you could help me find your posts -- I do In Class Support with a terrific teacher who is going to do some talking in the class about the whole civil rights vs. human rights thing, and I want to have the insights from the posts handy ...
Thank you, sincerely, in advance.
| 515 |
kansas Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:56:21am |
re: #502 Diego
Well, I'm sure he would like that very much as well tbh. Any idea on that front?
As for the 'entitlements', I can see two sides on one such coin: armed services pensions. I agree that if you served int eh armed services you should have a retirement pension, but then what if you are already rich? Should you still get that pension or is it an abuse of the system to receive a pension which you don't actually need?
Yes, I have a couple. First, instead of the government spending 768 billion dollars, give 768 billion dollars in tax breaks to small businesses who hire people.
Next, the cash for clunkers would have been better, in my opinion, to have been a tax credit to people who bought vehicles, and allowing the vehicles that were traded to remain in service to those who could not afford newer vehicles.
There's two.
| 516 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:56:49am |
re: #512 jaunte
Or, in this case, where do you start? Should you start at all? Should those who do not save for retirement have a 'safety net'? Should those who don't invest in health care be treated when they get sick?
| 517 |
kansas Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:57:08am |
re: #511 SixDegrees
Unlikely. At the moment, the Administration wants to get nationalized health care launched, and the more people who are out of work or waiting for the shoe to drop on their jobs the more support there is for such a plan out of sheer fear.
Also, the midterms aren't for more than a year; politicians don't have a big incentive to listen to their constituents griping about high unemployment, because they won't face any consequences for those high rates for at least a few more month, once the campaign season moves into full swing.
In short, there's simply no incentive to boost the employment rate, and the climate of fear induced by the current high rates works to the Administration's advantage.
It isn't that the Administration is actively promoting such fear and uncertainty and destruction of security. But it doesn't serve their purposes at this point to do anything about them, and there's no meaningful pressure from the electorate at this moment.
This is why Congress has been hell-bent on ramming a health care bill through at breakneck speed - before October, and before the midterm election cycle gets underway. Things haven't worked out nearly as well as they might have hoped, but don't look for any real job creation from the Administration or Congress for the next few months. It simply doesn't do them any good at this point.
Now he's going to need a crisis to ram it through. Got any ideas on a good crisis? Flu maybe?
| 518 |
lawhawk Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:58:14am |
re: #514 Gang of One
Actually, I think it was buzzsaw who was much more eloquent on the nature of human rights versus civil rights. I'm not sure of the posts (I didn't save them), but a search of lgf with those two search terms should be of help.
| 519 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:59:08am |
re: #516 Diego
We have started. Those who do not save for retirement do have a 'safety net.' Those who don't invest in health care are treated when they get sick. The question now is where to stop providing before we are all broke.
| 520 |
Gang of One Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:59:21am |
re: #518 lawhawk
Actually, I think it was buzzsaw who was much more eloquent on the nature of human rights versus civil rights. I'm not sure of the posts (I didn't save them), but a search of lgf with those two search terms should be of help.
Thanks, will do.
| 521 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 8:59:59am |
re: #510 Diego
Well, it seems to me it's coming down to personal responsibility and if you end up broke when you're old then tough. I can see why that would be so, but at the same time I find it difficult to accept.
Doesn't it go hand-in-hand that if you require people to save, whichever way you support, you should support requiring people to invest in health insurance?
If some did all the right things, worked, saved were prudent, they I don't have a problem having a safety net for them. I don't have a problem caring for those who can't for themselves.
Where I have a problem is someone who doesn't, spends all their money, buys toys, is frivolous, then when disaster hits comes with their hand out. Then yeah, tough shit. I have a problem when people make choices, to drop out school, to do drugs, have no regard for anything but themselves and the pleasure of the moment coming forward and saying their are "owed" something. No one owes them shit.
That's the thing about liberty. It's a two sided coin, on one side is freedom, but on the other is responsibility. Liberty is not risk free, for our freedom we take risks. I prefer the risks of liberty, and yes being destitute to the false security of a government promise.
Those who would give up ESSENTIAL LIBERTY, to purchase a little TEMPORARY SAFETY, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
Ben Franklin, the correct citation.
| 522 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:01:29am |
| 523 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:02:44am |
re: #510 Diego
Well, it seems to me it's coming down to personal responsibility and if you end up broke when you're old then tough. I can see why that would be so, but at the same time I find it difficult to accept.
Doesn't it go hand-in-hand that if you require people to save, whichever way you support, you should support requiring people to invest in health insurance?
Fine
Then the gov't should also "require" people to never drink soda
never eat ice cream
never smoke tobacco
never live in a town that has a smokestack
never work somewhere where they might get injured
never walk on a sidewalk where cars are on that street
:)
| 524 |
SixDegrees Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:03:21am |
re: #517 kansas
Now he's going to need a crisis to ram it through. Got any ideas on a good crisis? Flu maybe?
The government has always subsidized flu vaccinations. That wouldn't require anything new.
Frankly, I think the current effort's days are numbered. It's simply too expensive, and the White House's release of new deficit projections that are 25% higher than the already-terrifying levels they were at previously makes passage of yet another enormous government bureaucracy about as unattractive a prospect as can be imagined. The deficits being projected are utterly unsustainable and ruinous, and even hard-core supporters of this effort are finding it harder and harder to justify in this light. We just can't afford it. The numbers may lie, but the numbers are coming from the most optimistic source possible - the White House. In real life, everyone knows that the horribly bad levels projected are going to be much, much worse.
| 526 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:05:18am |
Is California getting rain today? Raining here in Portland..
| 527 |
cliffster Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:05:43am |
re: #510 Diego
Doesn't it go hand-in-hand that if you require people to save, whichever way you support...
I don't think people should be "required to save", and nobody who values liberty can say they do.
| 528 |
itellu3times Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:06:13am |
re: #499 lawhawk
The long term growth of the stock markets have provided a regular rate of return, so while a short term disruption can mean a big hit on investments, if you're dollar cost averaging your purchases via a 401k, you'll be able to take advantage of the down markets to buy more shares that will end up making money over the long run.
Lordy, we hope so, but since about halfway into the bubble circa 1999, that has not been the case. And that's ten years now. The most recent ten years.
Note that the Japanese Nikkei has been pegged at around 10k for about ... twenty years now?
| 529 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:07:15am |
re: #523 sattv4u2
Fine
Then the gov't should also "require" people to never drink soda
never eat ice cream
never smoke tobacco
never live in a town that has a smokestack
never work somewhere where they might get injured
never walk on a sidewalk where cars are on that street
:)
I'm sorry, is this sarcasm? Are you not in support of health care mandates then? Are you against retirement mandates too then? I'm asking, not telling, because I can't get a fix on where you stand.
| 530 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:09:01am |
re: #527 cliffster
I don't think people should be "required to save", and nobody who values liberty can say they do.
Okay, fair enough. So, what should happen when they retire and they have not saved? Should the government reward them by supporting them or just let them be to whatever fate they deserve?
| 531 |
itellu3times Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:11:49am |
re: #496 jcm
Over the long term, a working career, savings are rarely completely lost. Unless you've put everything in one place. If you have a properly diversified account you have principal that's not at risk and the closer to retirement the more principal you move to low risk investments and accounts.
SS was originally a safety net for just that type thing, then it became an entitlement and many people came to rely on it for retirement.
Of course there would have to an insurance program against catastrophic loss.
The system we have now, what the government takes form you telling you it's for your retirement they STEAL and use it to buy votes with earmarks.
All you say is true, BUT the average taxpayer is not a great financial manager (or we would not have all these happy credit card companies!). SS was a safety net and entitlement, meant to support a few people who were lucky enough to live to 65, for the two or three years on average they would still live. Arguably, at its inception it was not the Ponzi scheme that it later became due to improved life expectancy and inflation.
I agree, the biggest problem is government stealing from the pot, but of course, there is no pot, no lockbox.
I like to think that what you are doing, when you put money into SS, is buying shares in the biggest diversified mutual fund on the planet, the entire revenue stream of the US economy, public and private companies.
| 532 |
garycooper Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:12:20am |
Something to talk about with the kids.
| 533 |
jorline Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:12:22am |
re: #521 jcm
If some did all the right things, worked, saved were prudent, they I don't have a problem having a safety net for them. I don't have a problem caring for those who can't for themselves.
Where I have a problem is someone who doesn't, spends all their money, buys toys, is frivolous, then when disaster hits comes with their hand out. Then yeah, tough shit. I have a problem when people make choices, to drop out school, to do drugs, have no regard for anything but themselves and the pleasure of the moment coming forward and saying their are "owed" something. No one owes them shit.
That's the thing about liberty. It's a two sided coin, on one side is freedom, but on the other is responsibility. Liberty is not risk free, for our freedom we take risks. I prefer the risks of liberty, and yes being destitute to the false security of a government promise.
Those who would give up ESSENTIAL LIBERTY, to purchase a little TEMPORARY SAFETY, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
Ben Franklin, the correct citation.
Cheers jcm and a ding charm for your morning cereal.
| 534 |
MandyManners Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:12:48am |
| 535 |
A Man for all Seasons Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:13:05am |
re: #530 Diego
Okay, fair enough. So, what should happen when they retire and they have not saved? Should the government reward them by supporting them or just let them be to whatever fate they deserve?
Welcome to Wal-Mart..Would you like a Cart?
We all make our choices in life...
| 536 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:13:07am |
re: #523 sattv4u2
Fine
Then the gov't should also "require" people to never drink soda
never eat ice cream
never smoke tobacco
never live in a town that has a smokestack
never work somewhere where they might get injured
never walk on a sidewalk where cars are on that street
:)
You are simply stating progressives talking points. If this is suppose to be sarcasm, it's misses the mark by a mile, since I we hear progressive suggesting nanny-state hand holding like this all the time.
| 537 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:13:29am |
re: #529 Diego
I'm sorry, is this sarcasm? Are you not in support of health care mandates then? Are you against retirement mandates too then? I'm asking, not telling, because I can't get a fix on where you stand.
I'm not in favor of the gov't "requiring" you to do ANYTHING with your personal property ($$$ included) other than keeping up to community standards (i.e. you should not be allowed to keep a rhinicerous and a lion in inner city Detroit, or store toxic chemicals in your condo's hot tub,,, etc).
You want to mandate a "safety net" for retirees? For the "general welfare" I have no problem with that, but I think the $$$ that comes out of working peoples paychecks should
A) be earmarked for that and that alone
and
B) should be capped to a certain percentage of your income
and
C) if you do also contribute to a 401K (work matched or not) you shouldn;t have to kick in the same percentage as someone that does not
Fair enough?
| 538 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:13:33am |
re: #529 Diego
I'm sorry, is this sarcasm? Are you not in support of health care mandates then? Are you against retirement mandates too then? I'm asking, not telling, because I can't get a fix on where you stand.
How much risk should government mitigate?
Does that change when you (government) cover the consequences?
You are buying you neighbors health insurance. Your neighbor smokes, eats Mickey D's three meals a day, drinks like a fish.
If you are paying for his insurance shouldn't you have some control over his health choices?
| 539 |
cliffster Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:14:18am |
re: #530 Diego
Okay, fair enough. So, what should happen when they retire and they have not saved? Should the government reward them by supporting them or just let them be to whatever fate they deserve?
Communities rally to support those in need. Charities are there to help. People helping people in their own back yard is much more effective than the mass-produced "charity" of federal support.
| 540 |
John Neverbend Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:14:50am |
re: #380 jordash1212
@ IrishRose ... I live in Jerusalem, but I'm from Minneapolis.
I wish I was in Jerusalem now. I lived in Rehovot for nearly 3 years in the early 1980s.
| 541 |
kansas Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:15:07am |
OT
NRO's The Corner by Peter Kirsanow is such an eye opener:
Imagine it's September 2013 and President Palin is preparing to present her massive tax cut proposal to a joint session of congress. She's momentarily distracted by an MSNBC report that her Second Amendment czar, Sig Sauer, has a peculiar history: He was once (and perhaps still is) a Bircher who argued for the repeal of the 14th Amendment. He's also appeared on numerous radio and TV shows calling for the oppressive United States government to be transformed into a monarchy. Shortly before his appointment he was captured on YouTube calling Democrats "a**holes." Another YouTube video shows him ranting about "black gun-control advocates" who confiscate guns from law-abiding white communities. Back in 2009 he signed a petition published in the New York Post calling for the impeachment of Barack Obama on the grounds that he wasn't born in the United States. Sauer has even been arrested twice for participating in riots outside the U.N. and G-8 Summit.
Imagine that during a press briefing, a reporter asks White House press secretary Chuck Krauthammer how a radical right-wing racialist with an arrest record like Sauer could've possibly been appointed to a prominent White House position. Didn't President Palin know? Chuck dismisses the query, saying it's old news since Sauer has issued an apology contending that none of the forgoing actions reflect his actual views.
Imagine that the members of the press corps nod their heads collectively and move on to the more relevant issue of what President Palin will be wearing to the joint session.
Imagine. It's easy if you try.
| 542 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:15:09am |
re: #531 itellu3times
I like to think that what you are doing, when you put money into SS, is buying shares in the biggest diversified mutual fund on the planet, the entire revenue stream of the US economy, public and private companies.
If SS was an account, with an individuals name on it, and congresscritters could not dip their fingers in it. Then yes.
| 543 |
BignJames Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:15:35am |
re: #531 itellu3times
Weren't SS funds placed in the "general funds" sometime in the 50s?...so those funds could be accessed to build the interstate highways?
| 544 |
jorline Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:16:03am |
re: #534 MandyManners
IT'S FOOTBALL TIME IN TENNESSEE!
Let the spirit move you Mandy.
I'll take college football over the pros any day.!
| 545 |
MandyManners Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:16:12am |
re: #514 Gang of One
Law, good morning. At the risk of sounding completely irresponsible and neglectful, I recall reading several posts by you [I'm sure it was you] a few weeks back inre: human rights vs. civil rights. Another Lizard was kind enough to link but I did not save them to my faves. I was hoping you could help me find your posts -- I do In Class Support with a terrific teacher who is going to do some talking in the class about the whole civil rights vs. human rights thing, and I want to have the insights from the posts handy ...
Thank you, sincerely, in advance.
Buzzsawmonkey wrote them.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 546 |
lawhawk Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:16:23am |
re: #528 itellu3times
On every sale, there is a winner and loser. Mutual funds over the past 10 years have had profits, even if the DJIA isn't any higher than it was 10 years ago. Take Fidelity Contrafund (FCNTX) for example.*
That's a 10 year chart. It shows jagged peaks and valleys, mirroring the market generally. However, if you're dollar cost averaging (DCA) over that time, you can end up significantly ahead, because if you're putting $5000 into FCNTX during those down markets, you end up with that many more shares than when you're buying during the highs. Over time, you end up ahead, particularly with the distributions and reinvestment of dividends. In the 10 year period there, I've made a tidy profit for my IRA, and that's even after rolling it over into a Roth from a traditional IRA at a time when the market was down (2003).
Take the Nikkei 250, and while it is nearly unchanged from 1984, there are significant swings that mean buying opportunities under DCA.
* disclosure - I own FCNTX, so I have personal experience.
| 547 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:17:04am |
I think my point, if I have any point at all; which I would argue with, as this is only a discussion of general principals and not a statement of my views; is that none of this is black and white and that it is easy to say that which it is not easy to do.
| 548 |
kcladderman Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:17:08am |
re: #530 Diego
Okay, fair enough. So, what should happen when they retire and they have not saved? Should the government reward them by supporting them or just let them be to whatever fate they deserve?
If you have not saved , I don't think you should consider retirement a good life choice.
| 549 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:17:14am |
re: #530 Diego
Okay, fair enough. So, what should happen when they retire and they have not saved? Should the government reward them by supporting them or just let them be to whatever fate they deserve?
I wonder if knowing that the 'government' will take care of you regardless might not be influencing some people that behave irresponsibly.
AS JCM said, with freedom comes responsibility.
| 550 |
avanti Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:18:01am |
re: #494 kansas
Send more, and get nasty then, and say the word victory. I've heard the rules of engagement over there are getting to be like Viet Nam.
The rules of engagement were made by the General in charge that felt by killing too many civilians by accident was just making more insurgents. Getting nasty does not work if you piss off the population in so doing. We found that out in Iraq, when we decided to join with the tribal chiefs.
| 551 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:18:16am |
re: #547 Diego
I think my point, if I have any point at all; which I would argue with, as this is only a discussion of general principals and not a statement of my views; is that none of this is black and white and that it is easy to say that which it is not easy to do.
Actually, what would be VERY easy to do was for congress to not touch a single cent of the SS put aside for anything but SS bennies
| 552 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:19:08am |
re: #549 Van Helsing
I wonder if knowing that the 'government' will take care of you regardless might not be influencing some people that behave irresponsibly.
AS JCM said, with freedom comes responsibility.
BINGO ,,, What happens when you keep feeding the pigeons? The pigeons keep coming because they expect to be fed!
| 553 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:20:33am |
re: #549 Van Helsing
Good point and one which goes hand-in-hand with health care mandates. If you know the government will give you care when you get sick because you chose not to plan for that eventuality then why bother?
So, should those who do not pay into a health care plan be turned away?
| 554 |
jorline Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:20:34am |
Wrongly Convicted in Texas Paid $80G for Each Year Spent in Prison Under New State Law
DALLAS — Thomas McGowan's journey from prison to prosperity is about to culminate in $1.8 million, and he knows just how to spend it: on a house with three bedrooms, stainless steel kitchen appliances and a washer and dryer.
He and other exonerees in Texas, which leads the nation in freeing the wrongly convicted, soon will become instant millionaires under a new state law that took effect this week.
Exonerees will get $80,000 for each year they spent behind bars. The compensation also includes lifetime annuity payments that for most of the wrongly convicted are worth between $40,000 and $50,000 a year — making it by far the nation's most generous package.
| 555 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:22:49am |
re: #550 avanti
The rules of engagement were made by the General in charge that felt by killing too many civilians by accident was just making more insurgents. Getting nasty does not work if you piss off the population in so doing. We found that out in Iraq, when we decided to join with the tribal chiefs.
What if the US just paid the poppy farmers for their crop, took what was necessary and burned the rest, provided a level of security to keep the Taliban from stealing their money and then got them started growing food crops?
do that for a couple of years and fiscally starve the Taliban.
| 556 |
cliffster Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:22:57am |
re: #554 jorline
There is no just compensation, but I guess you gotta try.
| 557 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:23:17am |
re: #553 Diego
Good point and one which goes hand-in-hand with health care mandates. If you know the government will give you care when you get sick because you chose not to plan for that eventuality then why bother?
So, should those who do not pay into a health care plan be turned away?
No , and in this country nobody ever has been. When there's a car accident and an injured person is taken on a stretcher unconcious to an ER nobody in the hospital is waiting for proof of ins. to treat that person
| 558 |
avanti Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:23:41am |
re: #541 kansas
OT
NRO's The Corner by Peter Kirsanow is such an eye opener:Imagine it's September 2013 and President Palin is preparing to present her massive tax cut proposal to a joint session of congress.
Imagine. It's easy if you try.
Sorry, I can't get past imaging Palin as POTUS. :)
| 559 |
kansas Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:24:01am |
re: #550 avanti
The rules of engagement were made by the General in charge that felt by killing too many civilians by accident was just making more insurgents. Getting nasty does not work if you piss off the population in so doing. We found that out in Iraq, when we decided to join with the tribal chiefs.
Get out then. Now. These are warriors, they break things and kill people. You want police, get police.
| 560 |
Gang of One Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:24:16am |
| 561 |
cliffster Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:24:23am |
re: #555 Van Helsing
What if the US just paid the poppy farmers for their crop, took what was necessary and burned the rest, provided a level of security to keep the Taliban from stealing their money and then got them started growing food crops?
do that for a couple of years and fiscally starve the Taliban.
Supply goes down, demand stays the same, price goes up. Fewer people, getting more rich.
| 562 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:24:41am |
re: #557 sattv4u2
No , and in this country nobody ever has been. When there's a car accident and an injured person is taken on a stretcher unconcious to an ER nobody in the hospital is waiting for proof of ins. to treat that person
This would not be the situation for those attempting to use the ER as a primary care resource.
'Free' clinics can take care of that.
| 563 |
kansas Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:24:42am |
| 564 |
avanti Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:25:36am |
re: #555 Van Helsing
What if the US just paid the poppy farmers for their crop, took what was necessary and burned the rest, provided a level of security to keep the Taliban from stealing their money and then got them started growing food crops?
do that for a couple of years and fiscally starve the Taliban.
I see nothing wrong with that plan, except providing the needed security.
| 565 |
avanti Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:26:52am |
re: #563 kansas
I worried about that.
BTW, I agree with with the rest of the hypothetical, the left would go berserk.
| 566 |
MandyManners Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:27:23am |
| 567 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:29:09am |
re: #561 cliffster
Supply goes down, demand stays the same, price goes up. Fewer people, getting more rich.
Certainly. But if the goal is to prevent the taliban from being able to fight...
| 568 |
cliffster Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:29:23am |
Navy has OSU tied 7-7! Ok, it's just the first quarter. But, the first quarter's almost over!
| 569 |
cliffster Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:30:15am |
re: #567 Van Helsing
Certainly. But if the goal is to prevent the taliban from being able to fight...
Good point. It makes other bad people rich, but at least not the ones your're fighting.
| 570 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:30:23am |
re: #547 Diego
I think my point, if I have any point at all; which I would argue with, as this is only a discussion of general principals and not a statement of my views; is that none of this is black and white and that it is easy to say that which it is not easy to do.
Actually it is easy.
But the professional political class has been for 80 years now been buying votes with the promise of "well take care of you."
And too many people have found life is easier when they allow their liberty to be bought for a bowl of pottage.
It cannot last, someone is always he last level of the ponzi scheme and does lose everything. Eventually the bill will come due it will be our children or their children who lose everything and they won't even have liberty because our generation sold it.
| 571 |
leftover54 Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:30:27am |
re: #62 austin_blue
Gee, thanks for that. Made it 19 seconds the 1st go 'round. Decided I owed it to myself to return for a 2nd listen. Made it all the way to the Limbaugh bathtub bit. What a freakin' scream this guy is...
Not.
Some reefer and a few shots and I too could do this sh*t all night long. But then I'd have to live with myself so I'm content passing up the easy bucks. Walk into any bar in a college town on a Saturday night and you can get 'entertainment' such as this for free. What ? Austin is a college town ? Explains the hoots from the audience. Oh to be young again...physically. While this guy is playing armchair shrink perhaps he should look into his own pent up hatred and rage.
'Lunatic fringe, I know your out there...'
| 572 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:30:31am |
How about these ideas for encouraging people to save for retirement?
1) Make it easier for small companies to set up 401(k) retirement savings plans in which all workers are automatically enrolled unless they choose not to. Employers can set default amounts of each worker's pay to automatically be deposited into the accounts without being taxed. Workers can raise or lower the contribution levels, and they choose how to invest the money. They will pay taxes on the money only when they withdraw it as retirees, when their tax rates are likely to be lower than when they are working full-time. A similar process would apply to savings plans called SIMPLE-IRAs.
2) Allowing such plans to automatically increase the amount that workers save over time unless the workers choose otherwise.
3) Allowing people to choose to check a box on their federal tax returns asking that any refund be sent as a savings bond rather than a refund check, which are generally cashed and spent.
4) Allowing workers, when leaving a job, to choose to direct unused vacation pay to a retirement savings account rather than taking it in cash.
| 573 |
debutaunt Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:32:08am |
re: #553 Diego
Good point and one which goes hand-in-hand with health care mandates. If you know the government will give you care when you get sick because you chose not to plan for that eventuality then why bother?
So, should those who do not pay into a health care plan be turned away?
Of course not. You seem concerned and I believe you will set up a program (non-profit, I'm sure) to help those who might be turned away. **Gentle applause**
| 574 |
Gang of One Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:32:50am |
re: #545 MandyManners
Buzzsawmonkey wrote them.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Those are the ones! Thanks! This teacher I'm working with is definitely an anti-idiotarian, and I am discovering who the non-leftists are at the school. It seems there is a small but dedicated group of anti-Koolaid-drinkers at the school, and they are in ... wait for it ... the history department. There is hope.
| 575 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:34:18am |
re: #572 Diego
How about these ideas for encouraging people to save for retirement?.
Maybe this is a modest proposal (shameless self promotion)... hell, it "worked" for cash for clunkers...
"For every child, 2 years of age or younger, acquired by the United States Department of Agriculture Food and Nutrition Service, the parent of the child will receive either a cash payment of 2000 dollars or 3000 dollars will be deposited in a medical savings plan.
HB.1729 is designed to increase the income level of the family or single parent, which will help them to become a self-sustainable member of society, reduce our burden of over-population and break the cycle of crime that is prevalent among our low-income citizens.
This will also enable more parents to enter the job market, becoming freed from dependency on multiple government programs.
The act will not rely on taxpayers money. It will pay for itself from the sales of the food products created from the children enrolled in the program. The low cost of the food product will also benefit all Americans, as it can be used as a substitute for higher priced meats."
| 576 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:35:45am |
re: #570 jcm
It cannot last, someone is always he last level of the ponzi scheme and does lose everything. Eventually the bill will come due it will be our children or their children who lose everything and they won't even have liberty because our generation sold it.
Which causes serious ass-chapping amongst those of us that are responsible and value our liberty and remember that bit about "and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity".
| 577 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:36:09am |
re: #575 Walter L. Newton
Walter, we're having a good discussion here. How about you join in? I'd really like your input.
| 578 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:36:38am |
re: #572 Diego
How about these ideas for encouraging people to save for retirement?
1) Make it easier for small companies to set up 401(k) retirement savings plans in which all workers are automatically enrolled unless they choose not to. Employers can set default amounts of each worker's pay to automatically be deposited into the accounts without being taxed. Workers can raise or lower the contribution levels, and they choose how to invest the money. They will pay taxes on the money only when they withdraw it as retirees, when their tax rates are likely to be lower than when they are working full-time. A similar process would apply to savings plans called SIMPLE-IRAs.
2) Allowing such plans to automatically increase the amount that workers save over time unless the workers choose otherwise.
3) Allowing people to choose to check a box on their federal tax returns asking that any refund be sent as a savings bond rather than a refund check, which are generally cashed and spent.
4) Allowing workers, when leaving a job, to choose to direct unused vacation pay to a retirement savings account rather than taking it in cash.
Are those your ideas?
| 579 |
jorline Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:36:41am |
re: #556 cliffster
There is no just compensation, but I guess you gotta try.
I live in Texas and don't have a problem with it...keeps the lawyers hands out of the pot. If it's shoddy police or DA work...ding them...MHO though.
| 581 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:37:12am |
re: #573 debutaunt
Of course not. You seem concerned and I believe you will set up a program (non-profit, I'm sure) to help those who might be turned away. **Gentle applause**
Here here.
Not all solutions require the government to intervene.
| 582 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:38:59am |
re: #578 Pianobuff
Do you think they could work, or are they just a pipe dream?
| 583 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:39:13am |
re: #581 Van Helsing
Here here.
Not all solutions require the government to intervene.
I have a clogged toilet downstairs.
Who do I call?
| 584 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:39:36am |
| 585 |
Walter L. Newton Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:40:06am |
re: #577 Diego
Walter, we're having a good discussion here. How about you join in? I'd really like your input.
Yawn.
All the discussion I am seeing is another plead by a progressive to have the nanny-state federal government tell him what to do.
I'll take care of myself. You can go back to snarking someone else.
| 586 |
haakondahl Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:40:51am |
re: #527 cliffster
I don't think people should be "required to save", and nobody who values liberty can say they do.
Without the freedom to fail, there is no freedom to succeed.
| 587 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:41:49am |
re: #583 jcm
Not me!
My recent success rate with plumbing problems has been horrible.
I hate plumbing...
You think you're done, and then you turn on the water...
| 588 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:42:07am |
re: #585 Walter L. Newton
I've made no pleas and have not been sarcastic?
| 589 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:42:57am |
re: #572 Diego
How about these ideas for encouraging people to save for retirement?
1) Make it easier for small companies to set up 401(k) retirement savings plans in which all workers are automatically enrolled unless they choose not to. Employers can set default amounts of each worker's pay to automatically be deposited into the accounts without being taxed. Workers can raise or lower the contribution levels, and they choose how to invest the money. They will pay taxes on the money only when they withdraw it as retirees, when their tax rates are likely to be lower than when they are working full-time. A similar process would apply to savings plans called SIMPLE-IRAs.
2) Allowing such plans to automatically increase the amount that workers save over time unless the workers choose otherwise.
3) Allowing people to choose to check a box on their federal tax returns asking that any refund be sent as a savings bond rather than a refund check, which are generally cashed and spent.
4) Allowing workers, when leaving a job, to choose to direct unused vacation pay to a retirement savings account rather than taking it in cash.
I'll ask again. Are those your ideas?
| 590 |
itellu3times Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:43:33am |
re: #543 BignJames
Weren't SS funds placed in the "general funds" sometime in the 50s?...so those funds could be accessed to build the interstate highways?
It doesn't matter much where they are put, unless someone really, truly builds a lockbox, and buys gold, and puts it in the box. If they are used to buy t-bonds, and the t-bonds are put in a lockbox, they still have to be redeemed. As it is, instead of buying t-bonds, the funds "buy" a special IOU. Same deal, have to be redeemed. And the SSN rate is indexed to inflation, instead of funds earning interest. Fine by me. It's a really interesting problem, once you start looking at it - how DO you preserve trillions of dollars for future use? Ask the Chinese how that's working out for them.
| 591 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:44:37am |
re: #584 Pianobuff
You didn't asnwer my original question so why should I answer yours? What do you think of the ideas on face value?
| 592 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:45:58am |
re: #591 Diego
You didn't asnwer my original question so why should I answer yours? What do you think of the ideas on face value?
I think you have cut and pasted white house talking points. Am I wrong?
| 593 |
kcladderman Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:46:59am |
re: #592 Pianobuff
I think you have cut and pasted white house talking points. Am I wrong?
Ding ding ding
| 594 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:47:55am |
re: #592 Pianobuff
If I told you those ideas came from Ron Paul would it effect your view on them?
I didn't say where they came form because I wanted you to judge them on face value without the filter of politics.
| 595 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:48:06am |
re: #587 Van Helsing
Not me!
My recent success rate with plumbing problems has been horrible.I hate plumbing...
You think you're done, and then you turn on the water...
LOL!
My boys the other day discovered the new toilet in the bathroom I'm redoing wasn't tightened down all the way. I hate over tightening and cracking the things. They rocked and it it started leaking!
*gah*
| 596 |
haakondahl Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:48:45am |
| 597 |
itellu3times Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:48:59am |
re: #546 lawhawk
On every sale, there is a winner and loser. Mutual funds over the past 10 years have had profits, even if the DJIA isn't any higher than it was 10 years ago. Take Fidelity Contrafund (FCNTX) for example.*
That's a 10 year chart. It shows jagged peaks and valleys, mirroring the market generally. However, if you're dollar cost averaging (DCA) over that time, you can end up significantly ahead, because if you're putting $5000 into FCNTX during those down markets, you end up with that many more shares than when you're buying during the highs. Over time, you end up ahead, particularly with the distributions and reinvestment of dividends. In the 10 year period there, I've made a tidy profit for my IRA, and that's even after rolling it over into a Roth from a traditional IRA at a time when the market was down (2003).
Take the Nikkei 250, and while it is nearly unchanged from 1984, there are significant swings that mean buying opportunities under DCA.
* disclosure - I own FCNTX, so I have personal experience.
Your fund is down in that time period.
The average over time is your return over time, when you buy regularly.
Buying regularly does not turn a loss into a gain. There is no such magic. Who do you think you are, Bernie Madoff?
| 598 |
jaunte Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:49:47am |
re: #543 BignJames
Weren't SS funds placed in the "general funds" sometime in the 50s?...so those funds could be accessed to build the interstate highways?
It was the Social Security Act of 1965. LBJ's Great Society program changed Social Security to withdraw funds from the independent "Trust Fund" and put it into the General Fund for additional congressional revenue.
| 599 |
haakondahl Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:50:07am |
| 600 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:50:43am |
re: #594 Diego
If I told you those ideas came from Ron Paul would it effect your view on them?
I didn't say where they came form because I wanted you to judge them on face value without the filter of politics.
But I know where they are from already... and so do you and most of the people here...
The initiatives outlined in Obama’s weekly address are administrative steps only and do not require legislation. Many of them are just clarification of initiatives already on the books, attempting make to easier for people and businesses to understand.
First, the plan calls for expanding opportunities for automatic enrollment in 401(k) and other retirement savings plans.
“We know that automatic enrollment has made a big difference in participation rates by making it simpler for workers to save – and that’s why we’re going to expand it to more people,” Obama said.
By issuing pre-approved automatic enrollment language, the IRS will allow plan sponsors to amend their plans to adopt automatic enrollment more quickly, without the need for case-by-case approval by the IRS, perhaps streamlining the process. Another approach would be gradually increasing worker contribution over time, automatically stepping up their contributions with the worker's approval each year.
Senior administration officials said when such opportunities are expanded, it will mean a “dramatic increase in participation in savings plans.”
Second, officials hope to make it easier for people to save a portion or all of their tax refunds.
“Today, if you have a retirement account, you can have your refund deposited directly into your account,” Obama said. “With this change, we’ll make it easier for those without retirement plans to save their refunds as well. You’ll be able to check a box on your tax return to receive your refund as a savings bond.”
Senior administration officials said they hope that putting tax return money into a savings bond will help whet the appetite of those without a retirement account to start to become more active in savings.
Third, planners hope to enable workers to convert their unused vacation or other similar leave into additional retirement savings.
“Right now, most workers don’t have that option,” Obama said.
Senior administration officials said few employers right now are allowing this – many simply because they don’t know how it works. By laying out what can be done, the administration hopes that more businesses in the private sector will consider this as an option for their employees.
Fourth, officials hope to help workers and their employers better understand the available options for tax-favored retirement saving through clear, easy-to-understand language.
“The IRS and the Treasury Department are creating a plain-English, easy-to-follow guide, as well as a Web site, to help folks navigate what are often very complicated waters, especially for workers changing jobs who often are unsure how best to continue saving for retirement. Because the rules ought to be written to encourage people to save – instead of discouraging them.”
The four initiatives, administration officials said, are a set of “immediate steps” that will help make it easier and more automatic for families to save, and would compliment further measures in the president's budget that would need to be achieved legislatively.
What a coincidence!!!
| 601 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:54:58am |
re: #600 Pianobuff
But I know where they are from already
Then why ask? You thought maybe I'd say they were my ideas??
So then, again on the face of it, what do you think of the ideas?
| 602 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 9:55:50am |
| 603 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:02:36am |
re: #601 Diego
Then why ask? You thought maybe I'd say they were my ideas??
So then, again on the face of it, what do you think of the ideas?
I thought it was curious that you left out what was obvious to many people here, an attribution to the Obama administration.
Very good, continue on with your experiment to see how well lizards can process information without political filters.
| 604 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:06:49am |
It wasn't an experiment. I wanted an honest view and perceptions can be effected by conceptions.
If I offered you some food and asked your opinion, that opinion could be effected if you knew the food came from the Ritz, or if you knew it came from a soup kitchen.
Too many people these days judge the source of a thing long before they judge the merits of a thing.
| 605 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:13:25am |
re: #604 Diego
It wasn't an experiment. I wanted an honest view and perceptions can be effected by conceptions.
If I offered you some food and asked your opinion, that opinion could be effected if you knew the food came from the Ritz, or if you knew it came from a soup kitchen.
Too many people these days judge the source of a thing long before they judge the merits of a thing.
In general, I will concede that.
It is, however, probably fair to say that Lizards are a pretty high-information species and you may have a tough time pulling this off here. I would hope that many here can deal with attributed talking points.
| 606 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:14:22am |
So, even knowing the source, what do you thnk of the ideas?
| 608 |
jcm Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:20:33am |
re: #607 Diego
And could you please tell me why 'lizards'?
The ideas themselves are not un-reasonable.
Coming from the Obama administration, I'll with hold judgement until I see the strings. Remember this little trial ballon?
| 609 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:22:09am |
re: #606 Diego
So, even knowing the source, what do you thnk of the ideas?
Most of the ideas seem to be about making options easier to facilitate. Those are administrative things that do not bother me. For instance I'd be fine (and might like) having a check-box to divert to a bond purchase or something like that. Things like that (in my mind) are business system improvements, not necessarily sweeping policy.
The auto-enrollment I would have to see more on. As a practice, I prefer the opt-in choice as opposed to the opt-out choice. Perhaps a forced choice one way or the other with a program description that must be signed, etc. as opposed to a default opt-in position would work better. That's just my opinion, though.
| 610 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:27:14am |
re: #607 Diego
And could you please tell me why 'lizards'?
Why in terms of root cause, I could only speculate. Why, in terms of the assertion. is based on the anecdotal experience I've had here that most news as it breaks is known here, either through appearance in posts, spin-off links, articles, etc.
Also, if there is an attribution to be made to a non-attributed story, position, concept, idea, etc. there will be one or more lizards to jump in with the correct attribution, either by being asked for a link, or jumping in unasked to provide the original source.
| 611 |
haakondahl Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:31:33am |
re: #602 Pianobuff
I'm wrong?
No, just that the exact wording was from an AP article--ABC did their own write-up. In a way you are more correct than I was--I just googled it.
| 612 |
Gang of One Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:35:39am |
| 613 |
Pianobuff Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:35:58am |
re: #611 haakondahl
No, just that the exact wording was from an AP article--ABC did their own write-up. In a way you are more correct than I was--I just googled it.
Ahh.. I must have misunderstood.
| 614 |
Van Helsing Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:39:34am |
re: #608 jcm
The ideas themselves are not un-reasonable.
Coming from the Obama administration, I'll with hold judgement until I see the strings. Remember this little trial ballon?
Yes. All too well. Ghilarducci speaks
| 615 |
Diego Sat, Sep 5, 2009 10:46:47am |
The reason I joined here was just exactly that.
I could go to any number of sites and get slanted views. I noticed that here it is less likely, though it does still happen to a large degree that 'lizards' will mock issues based on source rather than body, which I find disappointing.
As for the list I submitted, I did not think you would not have approved of the source, HuffPo, or the root, Obama, and, as stated, it could have colored your opinion.
This is what he had to say, if you have missed it.
Sounds logical to me, but as you say it is best to see the entire proposal before judging.
| 617 |
BARACK THE VOTE Sat, Sep 5, 2009 11:32:54am |
re: #615 Diego
Diego, people will probably not give you crap for linking HuffPo. If they do, remind them that HuffPo had some of the best Iran coverage out there for the first 3 days following the election, and ask them if they objected when Charles linked Nico Pitney's posts there. ;)
Ditto Kos.
Some people will want to dismiss your items simply because for being from a 'leftist' source. Not all, by any means though, and particularly not when you can provide further documentation as well. So don't ever feel bad about linking.
Also, as someone on the left, some of our opinions are likely to be in the minority here, and consequently there is a higher standard for proof and argumentation for us. That's just how it is, and that's how it is anywhere where one is in the minority. If we were on a left blog, and we were some of the few on the right, it would be the same.
if people give you a hard time over any source and it's unwarranted, I just quote and link Charles: "Facts don't get cooties on them because of where they're from."
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