Guardian's '2010 Buzz Words' Takes Swipe at Assange

Guardian’s ‘2010 Buzz Words’ Takes Swipe at Assange

MediaDecember 2010 • Views: 21,733

Wikileaks’ Julian Assange and British newspaper the Guardian/the Observer used to be tight. I mean, they were like this, man.

But now the honeymoon is over.

Assange – The act of dressing self-indulgence up as piety, eg “don’t tell me you only stayed in the pub to look after your mate. That’s a load of assange and you know it!”

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145 comments

TedStriker Sun, Dec 26, 2010 1:48:46pm

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 26, 2010 1:53:01pm

Assange. Has the advantage of sounding French.

TedStriker Sun, Dec 26, 2010 1:54:49pm

re: #2 Decatur Deb

Assange. Has the advantage of sounding French.

Not to mention that you can't have Assange without Ass...

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:02:23pm

Huh? I thought the honeymoon had already been over ever since they published the content of the swedish court documents.

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:03:18pm

Yes, it all seemed to go downhill when the Guardian printed parts of the witnesses remarks about him.

Does anyone know where the Guardian sourced that?

Gus Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:05:08pm

Brings new meaning to being ~~a bullshit~~ an assange artist.

Kronocide Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:09:54pm

You mean the Guardian leaked public information about Assange?

They assanged him?

Those bastards!

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:10:47pm

re: #7 BigPapa

You mean the Guardian leaked public information about Assange?

They assanged him?

Those bastards!

The witnesses transcripts were public information?

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:13:08pm

Two peanuts were walking down the street and one was assange.

Wait, what

Kronocide Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:14:01pm

re: #8 ozbloke

The witnesses transcripts were public information?

I don't know. Whether or not, the irony is not lost.

brookly red Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:14:19pm

re: #9 000G

Two peanuts were walking down the street and one was assange.

Wait, what

to me it sounds like some kind of fungus that lives between yer toes...

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:15:46pm

re: #10 BigPapa

I don't know. Whether or not, the irony is not lost.

Irony is a rhetoric device on behalf of a speaker. I always find it odd when people ascribe their own sense of irony to, say, history…

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:18:43pm

Information wants to be free, man!
Lol...

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:20:13pm

re: #7 BigPapa

You mean the Guardian leaked ~~public~~ information about Assange?

They assanged him?

Those bastards!

FIFY
I might have considered that to be irony.

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:20:38pm

Heh, a birther showed up on LGF.
Haven't seen one of them in some time.

Gus Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:20:48pm

re: #13 Varek Raith

Information wants to be free, man!
Lol...

Once it's free man it will lead to global peace and harmony man.

Gus Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:21:20pm

re: #15 Varek Raith

Heh, a birther showed up on LGF.
Haven't seen one of them in some time.

My latest patient!

Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:22:09pm

re: #15 Varek Raith

Heh, a birther showed up on LGF.
Haven't seen one of them in some time.

They're "threatened", not "endangered".

Kronocide Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:23:04pm

re: #12 000G

Irony is a rhetoric device on behalf of a speaker. I always find it odd when people ascribe their own sense of irony to, say, history…

Why is it odd? Is see irony, I pointed it out, nothing odd about that.

What is the rest of your point, you implied something with the .... at the end of the sentence.

Kronocide Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:24:06pm

re: #14 ozbloke

FIFY
I might have considered that to be irony.

that was the point, I inserted 'public' into the sentence where it wasn't necessary and incorrect.

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:27:28pm

re: #20 BigPapa

that was the point, I inserted 'public' into the sentence where it wasn't necessary and incorrect.

If you have to explain it twice, maybe its not quite right.
I saw it as a statement that was not something that rang true.

Here have an up ding, its Christmas.

Kronocide Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:30:56pm

re: #21 ozbloke

If you have to explain it twice, maybe its not quite right.
I saw it as a statement that was not something that rang true.

Here have an up ding, its Christmas.

Part of the statement was not true, you got me. Sloppy on my part. The key meaning of the statement is little changed.

But thanks for the karma.

brookly red Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:31:40pm

I am trying to think of who he looks like... Henry Gibson comes to mind, but there was another guy who is even closer...

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:33:01pm

re: #22 BigPapa

Part of the statement was not true, you got me. Sloppy on my part. The key meaning of the statement is little changed.

But thanks for the karma.

Most welcome,

I am interested in how the Guardian got the transcripts of a witnesses statement.

I think its an important question.

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:37:11pm

Soldier who lost his legs hits Rocky slopes

A British soldier who suffered a brain injury and lost both his legs in Afghanistan has skied down America's Rocky Mountains.

Lance-Bombardier Ben Parkinson, 26, was able to ski using a device known as a bucket - a plastic seat mounted on skis.

Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:38:37pm

re: #12 000G

Irony is a rhetoric device on behalf of a speaker. I always find it odd when people ascribe their own sense of irony to, say, history…

Meh. I like this definition.

One writer in 1656 defines 'irony' in this way: "An Irony is a nipping jeast, or a speech that hath the honey of pleasantnesse in its mouth, and a sting of rebuke in its taile" (OED). Even though this definition is 350 years old, it gets to the heart of the essential qualities all ironies share. Basically, irony is a message or an event that has two levels of meaning--its 'face value', and 'what it really means'. On the one hand there is appearance, and on the other hand reality. The jest, "He's such an honest man," said about a crooked politician has the 'sting of rebuke' since it shows the incongruity of reality with what was actually said.

Assange is complaining about a leak of information pertaining to him. I agree with BigPapa in that i find his complaint quite ironic. Deliciously so, in fact.

Kronocide Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:39:23pm

re: #24 ozbloke

I am interested in how the Guardian got the transcripts of a witnesses statement.

I think its an important question.

You're right, it would be interesting to know. But would it be critical to the overall discussion about Assange?

The irony is isn't it interesting to know how Wikileaks got all their information?

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:41:12pm

I demand to see Assange's birth certificate.
The real one.

brookly red Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:43:37pm

re: #28 Varek Raith

I demand to see Assange's birth certificate.
The real one.

lemmie have a few beers & get back to you on that one....

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:44:27pm

re: #29 brookly red

lemmie have a few beers & get back to you on that one...

That'll be too late.
The future of our...uh...future is at stake!

Gus Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:44:45pm

Julian Assange paid two thirds of WikiLeaks salary budget

Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks founder, received a salary of $86,000 (£56,000) in 2010 - two-thirds of the organisation’s salary budget of $130,000 (£84,000) - it has been reported....

Details of the finances of Wikileaks came as Mr Assange said he had signed books deals of $1.5 million (£970,000) for his autobiography in order to fight sexual assault charges in Sweden and keep his organisation in business.

"I don't want to write this book, but I have to," he told a Sunday newspaper. "I have already spent £200,000 pounds for legal costs and I need to defend myself and to keep WikiLeaks afloat."

It has been reported that German-based Wau Holland Foundation collected about $1.3 million in donations in 2010 on behalf of WikiLeaks. According to the Wall Street Journal, Mr Assange was paid $86,000 (£56,000) in salary in 2010 – two-thirds of the total WikiLeaks salary budget of $130,000 (£84,000)...

He said he would receive £325,000 from Canongate for British publication and $800,000 (£518,000) from Alfred Knopf in the US. Money from other markets and serialisations are is expected to raise the total to £1.1 million, he stated...

Burp.

Charles Johnson Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:44:55pm

re: #24 ozbloke

Most welcome,

I am interested in how the Guardian got the transcripts of a witnesses statement.

I think its an important question.

I have a feeling they used ancient, secret techniques known as "journalism" and "sources."

brookly red Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:44:59pm

re: #30 Varek Raith

That'll be too late.
The future of our...uh...future is at stake!

are you trying to tell me to drink faster?

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:45:09pm

re: #27 BigPapa

You're right, it would be interesting to know. But would it be critical to the overall discussion about Assange?

The irony is isn't it interesting to know how Wikileaks got all their information?

The topic of the thread is the Guardian vs Assange.
The spat from Assange is they posted 'witness testimony' about the Netherlands case.

In your original comment the irony was:

You mean the Guardian leaked public information about Assange?

Considering the thread, your term public does not seem right.

And thats when the fight started.
Here have another up ding.

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:45:40pm

re: #33 brookly red

are you trying to tell me to drink faster?

Yes.
...
No...
Pineapple!
*shrugs*

researchok Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:46:47pm

re: #31 Gus 802

Julian Assange paid two thirds of WikiLeaks salary budget

Burp.

Nothing like a noble cause.

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:47:48pm

re: #27 BigPapa

You're right, it would be interesting to know. But would it be critical to the overall discussion about Assange?

The irony is isn't it interesting to know how Wikileaks got all their information?

Allegedly Assange got it through Manning, I thought that was fairly settled.

Or perhaps Assange just got this random thought that maybe out of all the people in the defense forces he might look for a guy named, oh lets say Manning, to see if he might have any info he could use.

/irony

Gus Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:48:02pm

re: #36 researchok

Nothing like a noble cause.

The Wikileaks plutocracy.

brookly red Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:48:43pm

re: #35 Varek Raith

Yes.
...
No...
Pineapple!
*shrugs*

Pineapple beer !? (God forbid)

I must consult the Book of Armament's ...

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:49:03pm

re: #32 Charles

I have a feeling they used ancient, secret techniques known as "journalism" and "sources."

Agreed, wouldn't it be nice to know who they are?

Kronocide Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:50:01pm

re: #34 ozbloke

In your original comment the irony was:

Considering the thread, your term public does not seem right.

And thats when the fight started.

Yes, I accept the fact that that part of my statement was incorrect. But the irony still exists, though maybe of a different shade. There's no fight to have, it's Sunday afternoon in my timezone and I'm hanging with my lizard buddies drinking wine and waiting to put the roast on.

I got sloppy but I claim the 'wine/lazy' defense. I get one per month.

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:50:14pm

re: #39 brookly red

Pineapple beer !? (God forbid)

I must consult the Book of Armament's ...

I hope you get reincarnated as a pineapple.
:P
/

Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:50:22pm

re: #39 brookly red

Pineapple beer !? (God forbid)

I must consult the Book of Armament's ...

If it will ferment, it has been fermented:

[Link: www.cdkitchen.com...]

brookly red Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:50:45pm

re: #42 Varek Raith

I hope you get reincarnated as a pineapple.
:P
/

/yo mama

brookly red Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:52:27pm

re: #43 Decatur Deb

If it will ferment, it has been fermented:

[Link: www.cdkitchen.com...]

that would be pineapple wine then, no?

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:52:53pm

re: #41 BigPapa

Yes, I accept the fact that that part of my statement was incorrect. But the irony still exists, though maybe of a different shade. There's no fight to have, it's Sunday afternoon in my timezone and I'm hanging with my lizard buddies drinking wine and waiting to put the roast on.

I got sloppy but I claim the 'wine/lazy' defense. I get one per month.

Cheer's Big Papa, to you and yours, merry Christmas and may 2011 be all you could hope for and then some.

researchok Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:53:03pm

re: #38 Gus 802

The Wikileaks plutocracy.

Ain't that the truth.

I expect all that to snowball- Manning is being tortured and Assange is being victimized by every western security agency all working on behalf of the Mossad.

Of course, the influential Egyptian Imams and former Guantanamo inmates will declare their knowledge that Assange is really Jewish.

Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:54:24pm

re: #45 brookly red

that would be pineapple wine then, no?

Has barley, and "beer" in the title. I think the difference between wine and beer is mostly patience.

Kronocide Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:54:58pm

re: #37 ozbloke

Allegedly Assange got it through Manning, I thought that was fairly settled.

Or perhaps Assange just got this random thought that maybe out of all the people in the defense forces he might look for a guy named, oh lets say Manning, to see if he might have any info he could use.

/irony

We're talking about all Assange which entails all of the issues relating to Assange/Wikileaks. At least I was, and many frequently do. It is not known how all Wikileaks get's all it's information. That is part of the irony, a nuance. It's what makes it delicious.

I sense you are on the other side of the issue and there's nothing wrong with that. But let's get to the meat of the issue and not my previous error or parsing about irony.

Alexzander Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:55:11pm

re: #39 brookly red

Pineapple beer !? (God forbid)

I must consult the Book of Armament's ...

In some circles of the interweb,s 'Pineapple' might refer to another vice, but I doubt that's Varek Raith bag. It's not mine.

brookly red Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:56:18pm

re: #48 Decatur Deb

Has barley, and "beer" in the title. I think the difference between wine and beer is mostly patience.

I feel a fatwa coming on...

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:58:02pm

re: #50 Alexzander

In some circles of the interweb,s 'Pineapple' might refer to another vice, but I doubt that's Varek Raith bag. It's not mine.

I'm referring to normal pineapple.
Which brookly loves on pizza.

brookly red Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:58:19pm

re: #50 Alexzander

In some circles of the interweb,s 'Pineapple' might refer to another vice, but I doubt that's Varek Raith bag. It's not mine.

oh-oh... do we extradite to Sweden?

Kronocide Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:58:19pm

re: #46 ozbloke

Cheer's Big Papa, to you and yours, merry Christmas and may 2011 be all you could hope for and then some.

Cheers mate! Got me a lamb roast and have a fat Shiraz waiting for that bugger to come out.

Charles Johnson Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:58:27pm

re: #40 ozbloke

Agreed, wouldn't it be nice to know who they are?

You can make some reasonable inferences about who might have leaked the information to the Guardian; but reporters develop sources in all kinds of places, so who knows?

I thought the whole point of the Wikileaks Phenomenon was that information just wants to be free, and sources don't matter, because just the simple glorious revelation of all secrets will bring a new age of wonderfulness. Or did I miss something?

Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:58:36pm

re: #50 Alexzander

In some circles of the interweb,s 'Pineapple' might refer to another vice, but I doubt that's Varek Raith bag. It's not mine.

Here it refers to a character judgment, and a highly accurate judgment IMHO, related to whether one believes that pineapple is an acceptable choice of pizza topping.

Gus Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:59:00pm

Julian Assange doing his best imitation of Rush Limbaugh:

In the interview, Mr Assange said he regarded himself as a victim of Left-wing radicalism. "Sweden is the Saudi Arabia of feminism," he said. "I fell into a hornets' nest of revolutionary feminism."

Of course Assange will get a free pass from the usual suspects.

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 26, 2010 2:59:34pm

re: #57 Gus 802

Julian Assange doing his best imitation of Rush Limbaugh:

In the interview, Mr Assange said he regarded himself as a victim of Left-wing radicalism. "Sweden is the Saudi Arabia of feminism," he said. "I fell into a hornets' nest of revolutionary feminism."

Of course Assange will get a free pass from the usual suspects.

Dude's got women issues.

Alexzander Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:01:10pm

Assange seems to be the vindictive type.

I cannot remember why, but he drifted from the NY Times too - The Guardian were actually the one's that shared the cables with them.

It's a shame that anyone who seems to be successful at challenging the excesses of hierarchical power tend to have their own power-hungry/proto-facist tendencies.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:01:19pm

re: #57 Gus 802

Julian Assange doing his best imitation of Rush Limbaugh:

In the interview, Mr Assange said he regarded himself as a victim of Left-wing radicalism. "Sweden is the Saudi Arabia of feminism," he said. "I fell into a hornets' nest of revolutionary feminism."

Of course Assange will get a free pass from the usual suspects.

Quite Concur. Not a peep about that line will be found in the New York Times.

Kronocide Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:01:58pm

pineapple - pizza - beer - fatwa

I love pineapple, pizza, and beer. But not together, that's blasphemy.
nuff said

Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:02:16pm

re: #55 Charles

You can make some reasonable inferences about who might have leaked the information to the Guardian; but reporters develop sources in all kinds of places, so who knows?

I thought the whole point of the Wikileaks Phenomenon was that information just wants to be free, and sources don't matter, because just the simple glorious revelation of all secrets will bring a new age of wonderfulness. Or did I miss something?

i think you missed the part about the struggle against faceless entities who wish to dictate how we live our lives and with whom we ought to conduct our day-to-day affairs. oops, i just described Anonymous. go figure.

Charles Johnson Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:02:33pm

re: #57 Gus 802

"Sweden is the Saudi Arabia of feminism?"

What does that even mean?

brookly red Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:02:44pm

re: #58 Varek Raith

Dude's got women issues.

/perhaps not associating with any for oh, I don't know 15 to life might clear that up?

Gus Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:02:46pm

re: #58 Varek Raith

Dude's got women issues.

Oedipus complex. That his mother became a part of the media circus surrounding his arrest in the UK is an illustration of this.

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:03:40pm

re: #63 Charles

"Sweden is the Saudi Arabia of feminism?"

What does that even mean?

It means Assange is having problems with his contacts with women in Sweden.

Creepy, creepy guy.

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:03:57pm

re: #63 Charles

"Sweden is the Saudi Arabia of feminism?"

What does that even mean?

I guess that makes me the "Saudi Arabia of Sith"???

Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:04:34pm

re: #59 Alexzander

Assange seems to be the vindictive, misogynist type..

i polished that up for you...

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:04:36pm

re: #49 BigPapa

I sense you are on the other side of the issue and there's nothing wrong with that.

At comment 49, I try to stay on topic, I believe its the done thing.
I was on topic, I get now that you were not.

You sense wrong, I just want to wade through it.

There are legal issues and moral issues.

Morally I think Assange has created a lot of his grief.
He does seem to think rather highly of himself, but he isn't the first 'bright' person to do that.

I do think he was/is in a difficult position.

Should Assange have decided what to release?
Who would trust that his bias wouldn't then come through those releases?
If wikileaks is to be trusted by whistle-blowers, I would think whistle-blowers would expect their info to be released unedited.

There are so many issues.

I am trying to follow the legal facts, not the moral causes.
The moral views are individual 's choices, the law is the law.

Alexzander Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:04:49pm

I'll be the Saudi Arabia of Canada. Wait what?

brookly red Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:05:18pm

re: #63 Charles

"Sweden is the Saudi Arabia of feminism?"

What does that even mean?

/I don't know but I got a whole pile of stones ready to pass out here...

Gus Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:05:28pm

re: #63 Charles

"Sweden is the Saudi Arabia of feminism?"

What does that even mean?

I assume he means that it's a state of tyrannical feminism. Or perhaps Rush Limbaugh's Godwinian version of feminism.

reine.de.tout Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:05:31pm

Apart from Assange, and I know it's early to go OT, I'm eagerly awaiting a review of the kalamata olives-in-the-potato-salad dish.

A Man for all Seasons Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:05:45pm

re: #56 Aceofwhat?

Here it refers to a character judgment, and a highly accurate judgment IMHO, related to whether one believes that pineapple is an acceptable choice of pizza topping.

I eat veggie pizza's with extra pineapples...I eat peaches for breakfast...I think Yogurt is man's greatest invention..
It's who I am..It's what I eat...And it has never bothered me that people make fun of me here...I'm slim and handsome..LOL

Aceofwhat? Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:05:47pm

re: #59 Alexzander

It's a shame that anyone who seems to be successful at challenging the excesses of hierarchical power.

wait, what does this mean?

Kronocide Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:06:43pm

re: #63 Charles

"Sweden is the Saudi Arabia of feminism?"

What does that even mean?

Thanks, I thought it was the wine. I don't get his statement at all.

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:06:47pm

re: #75 Aceofwhat?

wait, what does this mean?

Down with the establishment, man!

Decatur Deb Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:06:58pm

re: #70 Alexzander

I'll be the Saudi Arabia of Canada. Wait what?

No. Canada is the Saudi Arabia of "Nice".

Obdicut Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:07:04pm

re: #69 ozbloke

The same thing that makes it 'trustable' by whistleblowers makes it abuseable by any propagandist, as the CRU email release showed.

In addition, Assange et al. have edited videos, so what are you talking about?

Charles Johnson Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:08:27pm

re: #73 reine.de.tout

Apart from Assange, and I know it's early to go OT, I'm eagerly awaiting a review of the kalamata olives-in-the-potato-salad dish.

It was just dandy. We kept some aside so the purists would have their untainted portion.

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:09:21pm

This snow storm is weird.
The local meteorologists have no clue how to forecast it.
They're expecting anywhere from a dusting to 3 to 6 inches.
:/

PhillyPretzel Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:09:27pm

re: #80 Charles
That is good to hear. :)

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:09:49pm

re: #79 Obdicut

The same thing that makes it 'trustable' by whistleblowers makes it abuseable by any propagandist, as the CRU email release showed.

In addition, Assange et al. have edited videos, so what are you talking about?

Agreed. Assange exhausted his credibility with me when he posted that Breitbart-esque hackjob "Collateral Murder".

Gus Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:10:20pm

re: #81 Varek Raith

This snow storm is weird.
The local meteorologists have no clue how to forecast it.
They're expecting anywhere from a dusting to 3 to 6 inches.
:/

I'll predict zero to 6 inches. /

TedStriker Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:11:05pm

re: #83 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. Assange exhausted his credibility with me when he posted that Breitbart-esque hackjob "Collateral Murder".

You mean he had credibility to begin with?

Obdicut Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:11:21pm

re: #84 Gus 802

I accidentally made the front desk ladies at my apartment building laugh hysterically by telling them "Expect twelve inches".

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:11:49pm

re: #55 Charles

You can make some reasonable inferences about who might have leaked the information to the Guardian; but reporters develop sources in all kinds of places, so who knows?

Not I, its just another piece in the puzzle.
I would think though it would be the sort of thing that the Netherlands Government and their public might want to know.

I believe if the US Govt did not have Manning, I think they would be wanting to know who leaked it.

I thought the whole point of the Wikileaks Phenomenon was that information just wants to be free, and sources don't matter, because just the simple glorious revelation of all secrets will bring a new age of wonderfulness. Or did I miss something?

I wouldn't know, pre the US 250000 doc dump and the Iraq/Afghanistan dump, I'm not sure many held that view.

Much is being learnt and much is being revealed.

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:12:12pm

re: #86 Obdicut

I accidentally made the front desk ladies at my apartment building laugh hysterically by telling them "Expect twelve inches".

[Link: instantrimshot.com...]

PhillyPretzel Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:12:27pm

re: #81 Varek Raith
Try this website. [Link: www.wunderground.com...]

Alexzander Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:12:38pm

re: #75 Aceofwhat?

wait, what does this mean?

Yeah good call. What I meant was that many of the people who seem to have similar goals as Assange (anti-hierarchical, utopian-egalitarian, down with the establishment man!, yadda yadda) yet lack his pathos' (mysogeny, controlling, secretive) tend to be pretty ineffectual. Think pacificist vegan anarchist who volunteers at a book co-op. Unlike many of those individuals, Assange actually made a strike against his percieved enemies.
Other examples of 'successful' individuals who believed their had populist missions yet who ultimately harboured (and were overcome by) their own facist power-hungry dimension: most dictators of the 20th century (Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot).

Nervous Norvous Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:12:50pm

Have you guys seen this? Apparently even the jolly old elf isn't safe from Assange.

brookly red Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:13:15pm

re: #84 Gus 802

I'll predict zero to 6 inches. /

a cubit says I!

Obdicut Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:14:07pm

re: #83 Dark_Falcon

For me, the release of the CRU emails is just as bad. If Wikileaks doesn't investigate what's given to them at all, then they can be simply used by anyone-- including governments-- to release propaganda, either entirely fictionalized or real emails and documents taken out of context and edited for effect.

A journalist should investigate the story, should try to figure out what the real story is. Not the objective story, there is no such thing, but be honest about his point of view, engage with the subject, and try to represent a truth as best he can.

The release of information alone does not do that. In any way, shape, or form.

zora Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:15:52pm

re: #63 Charles

"Sweden is the Saudi Arabia of feminism?"

What does that even mean?

translation: extreme swedish women do no realize that having the naked willie of assange inside them is a privilege, lest they would not insist that he wear and condom and/or be upset when they found out that he wasn't wearing said condom.

this guy creeps me out for at least a dozen reasons

Obdicut Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:16:01pm

re: #90 Alexzander

There are hundreds, thousands of people who have faced authoritarianism and made it back down. It's happening right now in our country with the dismantling of DADT, with the gradual increase of gay rights.

It's not as fancy, it's not as showy, but at the end of the day for the gay rights activists, they got DADT repealed.

What has Assange actually achieved?

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:16:14pm

I hate snow storms that come up from the south.
It moves half a degree to the east, nothing.
Half a degree to the west, snowmageddon.

Kronocide Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:16:42pm

re: #69 ozbloke

Should Assange have decided what to release?
Who would trust that his bias wouldn't then come through those releases?
If wikileaks is to be trusted by whistle-blowers, I would think whistle-blowers would expect their info to be released unedited.
..
I am trying to follow the legal facts, not the moral causes.
The moral views are individual 's choices, the law is the law.

To merely store and release this information is a biased choice and it's also a lawful is. I think it's a copout to claim that to choose which information to release is bias, where as to release any information at all is not biased. If I understand you or the point correctly.

The legal facts are just as interesting since we're dealing with laws in many countries. What's ironic is though you want to stick with the lawful facts and not the moral issues, any lawful case may well take into account Assange's personal morals and decisions. I just can't understand discussing Assange in greater context without discussing the moral and legal issues since there is little precedent in this new age.

researchok Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:17:26pm

re: #57 Gus 802

Julian Assange doing his best imitation of Rush Limbaugh:

In the interview, Mr Assange said he regarded himself as a victim of Left-wing radicalism. "Sweden is the Saudi Arabia of feminism," he said. "I fell into a hornets' nest of revolutionary feminism."

Of course Assange will get a free pass from the usual suspects.

Free pass my ass- he is being lionized.

PhillyPretzel Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:17:32pm

re: #96 Varek Raith
Same here. Philly gets clobbered when the storms come up the coast.

100

brookly red Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:18:02pm

re: #96 Varek Raith

I hate snow storms that come up from the south.
It moves half a degree to the east, nothing.
Half a degree to the west, snowmageddon.

just the notion of snow coming from the south puts me off...

101

Varek Raith Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:18:13pm

re: #99 PhillyPretzel

Same here. Philly gets clobbered when the storms come up the coast.

Yep.
I'm just a bit south of DC.

102

PhillyPretzel Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:19:01pm

re: #101 Varek Raith
I know. :(

103

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:19:11pm

re: #79 Obdicut

The same thing that makes it 'trustable' by whistleblowers makes it abuseable by any propagandist, as the CRU email release showed.

In addition, Assange et al. have edited videos, so what are you talking about?

I agree with your first sentence, its part of wikileaks difficulties that I see.

I don't get your second sentence, sorry.
Are you suggesting Assange edited the video, or that he released an edited video?

FYI I have not seen the video edited or unedited.

104

Obdicut Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:22:20pm

re: #103 ozbloke

Assange et al. edited the "Collateral Murder" videos, yes.

105

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:22:35pm

re: #93 Obdicut

For me, the release of the CRU emails is just as bad. If Wikileaks doesn't investigate what's given to them at all, then they can be simply used by anyone-- including governments-- to release propaganda, either entirely fictionalized or real emails and documents taken out of context and edited for effect.

A journalist should investigate the story, should try to figure out what the real story is. Not the objective story, there is no such thing, but be honest about his point of view, engage with the subject, and try to represent a truth as best he can.

The release of information alone does not do that. In any way, shape, or form.

I would include most media in the last decade.
I think the word I have heard used is stenographers.

106

Dark_Falcon Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:22:51pm

re: #103 ozbloke

I agree with your first sentence, its part of wikileaks difficulties that I see.

I don't get your second sentence, sorry.
Are you suggesting Assange edited the video, or that he released an edited video?

FYI I have not seen the video edited or unedited.

Yes, that video from Iraq that Wikileaks released was edited. The Army released the unedited footage and the hackjob was made clear.

107

prairiefire Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:23:51pm

re: #86 Obdicut

I accidentally made the front desk ladies at my apartment building laugh hysterically by telling them "Expect twelve inches".

There is often a difference between reality and expectations./

108

Kronocide Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:24:18pm

re: #103 ozbloke

Are you suggesting Assange edited the video, or that he released an edited video?

He released an edited version that was promoted on a website and/then released the unedited version at the same/after timeframe. I forget which.

109

Obdicut Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:26:09pm

re: #105 ozbloke

Sure. So I really don't get this hailing of Assange as a new breath of fresh air. He's like a parody of how bad the media can be.

110

Kronocide Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:27:04pm

re: #106 Dark_Falcon

Yes, that video from Iraq that Wikileaks released was edited. The Army released the unedited footage and the hackjob was made clear.

I thought Wiki released the full version as well, although I don't know when. As I recall Assange said they released both Jon Steward.

111

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:29:23pm

re: #97 BigPapa

To merely store and release this information is a biased choice and it's also a lawful is. I think it's a copout to claim that to choose which information to release is bias, where as to release any information at all is not biased. If I understand you or the point correctly.

With what I have read about Assange, personally I wouldn't want him to be deciding whats relevant.

The legal facts are just as interesting since we're dealing with laws in many countries. What's ironic is though you want to stick with the lawful facts and not the moral issues, any lawful case may well take into account Assange's personal morals and decisions. I just can't understand discussing Assange in greater context without discussing the moral and legal issues since there is little precedent in this new age.

Lots of questions can relate to either the moral aspect or legal aspect of a case. We are free to discuss whatever we want, no?

I don't believe Assange's morals regarding women will come into any trial on the wikileak cables.

Do I understand from your last sentence that no particular aspect of wikileaks can be discussed without discussing everything every time?

112

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:30:39pm

re: #104 Obdicut

Assange et al. edited the "Collateral Murder" videos, yes.

Sorry Obdi,

Can you confirm for me?
et al = wikileaks

113

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:33:05pm

re: #106 Dark_Falcon

Yes, that video from Iraq that Wikileaks released was edited. The Army released the unedited footage and the hackjob was made clear.

Thanks Dark,

I know that there had been an unedited version released that showed the first had been edited.

I did not watch the content of either, nor have I previous to this thread discussed the video of LGF with anyone.

114

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:36:55pm

re: #109 Obdicut

Sure. So I really don't get this hailing of Assange as a new breath of fresh air. He's like a parody of how bad the media can be.

Agreed,
I can only remember one claim that Assange is a 'breath of fresh air' here on LGF.

And I'm sure we all know who I am talking about.

115

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:38:25pm

re: #113 ozbloke

PIMF: s/of/on/g

116

Kronocide Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:40:00pm

re: #111 ozbloke

With what I have read about Assange, personally I wouldn't want him to be deciding whats relevant.

Lots of questions can relate to either the moral aspect or legal aspect of a case. We are free to discuss whatever we want, no?

I don't believe Assange's morals regarding women will come into any trial on the wikileak cables.

Do I understand from your last sentence that no particular aspect of wikileaks can be discussed without discussing everything every time?

No, I'm not quite going there. When it comes to law we have to more specific. When it comes to the cheap satisfaction of irony anything goes! I just think you and I are on a different wavelengths regarding when/what to be specific about. Or, I'm taking the 25,000 foot view and you're taking the 10K.

Assange's morals regarding women may not be revealed during a cables release trial, and vica versa, but you never know what a lawyer may theorize and what a judge will allow to be brought up in trail. Add to that equation the laws (and maybe morals) of differing countries regarding differing crimes. My thought is the possibility is remote.

Blog rules are a lot more lax and yes, we can talk about what ever we want, moreso than in a court of law.

117

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:45:56pm

re: #116 BigPapa

No, I'm not quite going there. When it comes to law we have to more specific. When it comes to the cheap satisfaction of irony anything goes! I just think you and I are on a different wavelengths regarding when/what to be specific about. Or, I'm taking the 25,000 foot view and you're taking the 10K.

Assange's morals regarding women may not be revealed during a cables release trial, and vica versa, but you never know what a lawyer may theorize and what a judge will allow to be brought up in trail. Add to that equation the laws (and maybe morals) of differing countries regarding differing crimes. My thought is the possibility is remote.

Blog rules are a lot more lax and yes, we can talk about what ever we want, moreso than in a court of law.

But LGF has more peer pressure to make people ANSWER THE QUESTION!
Thankfully

118

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 3:52:44pm

re: #109 Obdicut

Sure. So I really don't get this hailing of Assange as a new breath of fresh air. He's like a parody of how bad the media can be.

Would there be a place for wikileaks if the media did their job? Possibly not.
If that were the case, it may have been a lot easier to prosecute the American media.

Also if you wouldn't mind.

The full video of "Collateral Murder", was that released by wikileaks or the Defense Dept?

and was it edited by Assange and/or Wikileaks, or provided to them edited?

119

Obdicut Sun, Dec 26, 2010 4:25:24pm

re: #112 ozbloke

Sorry Obdi,

Can you confirm for me?
et al = wikileaks

Yes, in so far as Wikileaks is a formal organization, et al is Wikileaks.

120

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 4:26:36pm

re: #119 Obdicut

Yes, in so far as Wikileaks is a formal organization, et al is Wikileaks.

Thanks Obdi,

I'm trying to fing relevent posts on LGF to get up to speed on this history, any pointers?

121

Obdicut Sun, Dec 26, 2010 4:26:56pm

re: #118 ozbloke

Would there be a place for wikileaks if the media did their job?

What aren't you getting about this? Wikileaks is like the mainstream media, but worse. They're not as bad as Fox news, but as bad as the general media that just uncritically publishes whatever anyone tells them.

And yes, Wikileaks edited the video. Themselves. You can find this out very easily on your own.

122

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 4:27:22pm

re: #120 ozbloke

Thanks Obdi,

I'm trying to fing relevent posts on LGF to get up to speed on this history, any pointers?

s/fing/find/g

I mean on the video "Collateral Murder".

123

Obdicut Sun, Dec 26, 2010 4:28:57pm

re: #120 ozbloke

Dude, just google it.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

124

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 4:29:48pm

re: #121 Obdicut

What aren't you getting about this? Wikileaks is like the mainstream media, but worse. They're not as bad as Fox news, but as bad as the general media that just uncritically publishes whatever anyone tells them.

And yes, Wikileaks edited the video. Themselves. You can find this out very easily on your own.

Thank you, and sorry for all the questions.

125

Obdicut Sun, Dec 26, 2010 4:31:11pm

re: #124 ozbloke

It's just weird to me that you're spending so much time commenting on Wikileaks without knowing some of the basic stuff around it.

The flip side of the media being idiots is people not doing the research on their own. Especially given the huge number of tools available to do it with.

I couldn't believe how many people didn't know Wikileaks had released the CRU emails. I can't believe how many don't know that the Collateral Murder-- and Wikileaks chose that title, too-- video was edited.

126

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 4:35:05pm

re: #125 Obdicut

It's just weird to me that you're spending so much time commenting on Wikileaks without knowing some of the basic stuff around it.

The flip side of the media being idiots is people not doing the research on their own. Especially given the huge number of tools available to do it with.

I couldn't believe how many people didn't know Wikileaks had released the CRU emails. I can't believe how many don't know that the Collateral Murder-- and Wikileaks chose that title, too-- video was edited.

I knew there were two videos, the unedited being released first.
I did not know who did the editing.

I knew a unedited version had been released.
I did not know who released it.

As I said, I had not watched either of the videos.

Happy holidays

127

Obdicut Sun, Dec 26, 2010 5:08:20pm

re: #126 ozbloke

But why not research it, if you're curious?

128

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 5:26:28pm

re: #127 Obdicut

But why not research it, if you're curious?

To be honest, thats what I was doing.

I could spend time looking up sites, and sites that contradict sites, or I could see whether LGF had any threads where it had been discussed.

I thought people had said there was. I had searched LGF for "Collateral Murder" but it had not led me to any specific thread.

I thought I would ask on here, thinking that you may have known and could point me in the right direction.

Just so you know, the wiki page you linked didn't answer the question of who edited the video that wikileaks released.

I will keep looking, cheers.

129

Obdicut Sun, Dec 26, 2010 5:27:55pm

re: #128 ozbloke

On for fuck's sake dude. Yes it does. Read it again.

130

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 5:33:20pm

re: #129 Obdicut

On for fuck's sake dude. Yes it does. Read it again.

The only reference I see to who did the editing is this:
Fox News criticized WikiLeaks' edit of the video, stating "the problem, according to many who have viewed the video, is that WikiLeaks appears to have done selective editing".

And even that is not directly claiming wikileaks did the edit themselves.

Maybe I'm blind, I will keep looking.

131

Obdicut Sun, Dec 26, 2010 5:33:34pm

re: #130 ozbloke

You're blind.

132

CuriousLurker Sun, Dec 26, 2010 5:42:21pm

re: #130 ozbloke

Use the search utility in the sidebar on the left, below where you log in. Enter "collateral damage" with or without the quotes into the second text box that says Google LGF.... You'll get plenty of results.

133

CuriousLurker Sun, Dec 26, 2010 5:43:41pm

re: #130 ozbloke

Ooops. I meant "collateral murder" not damage.

PIMF

134

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 5:46:05pm

re: #132 CuriousLurker

Use the search utility in the sidebar on the left, below where you log in. Enter "collateral damage" with or without the quotes into the second text box that says Google LGF.... You'll get plenty of results.

Thanks CL, thats where I started.

I was looking spefically for dedicated threads posted by Charles as opposed to individuals posts.

At the moment I'm trying to read on a wiki page that is suppose to say that wili created the edited video that it released, and I cant do that.

So perhaps its best if I stay away from multiple results.

All the best to you and yours in 2011.

135

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 5:56:07pm

re: #131 Obdicut

You're blind.

I think you are going to have to give me an F on research.
F@#ked if I can see it.

136

CuriousLurker Sun, Dec 26, 2010 6:07:02pm

re: #134 ozbloke

Thanks CL, thats where I started.

I was looking spefically for dedicated threads posted by Charles as opposed to individuals posts.

At the moment I'm trying to read on a wiki page that is suppose to say that wili created the edited video that it released, and I cant do that.

So perhaps its best if I stay away from multiple results.

All the best to you and yours in 2011.

Well, searching the article archives brings up 2 articles by Charles regarding the video in April 2010 (when it was released):

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I didn't really look at your conversation with Obdi, so maybe that's not what you're looking for. A lot of times Charles expresses his opinions in the comments. Anyway, good luck with digging around.

All the best to you & yours in 2011 also!

137

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 6:08:23pm

re: #136 CuriousLurker

Thanks CL
I will have a read.

138

Obdicut Sun, Dec 26, 2010 6:16:08pm

re: #135 ozbloke

Search for the word edited in the WIki article.

139

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 6:16:24pm

re: #136 CuriousLurker

Well, searching the article archives brings up 2 articles by Charles regarding the video in April 2010 (when it was released):

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I didn't really look at your conversation with Obdi, so maybe that's not what you're looking for. A lot of times Charles expresses his opinions in the comments. Anyway, good luck with digging around.

All the best to you & yours in 2011 also!

Thanks again, that second link might prove helpful, its about the original leak.

Though I'm was looking for answers to two questions.
1. The edited video released by wikileaks, did wikileaks edit it or did they release somthing that was given to them edited.

2. Who released the unedited video, wikileaks or the US Govt.

Please don't feel you have to find the answer for me.

140

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 6:18:36pm

re: #138 Obdicut

Search for the word edited in the WIki article.

This will probably just shit you more, but thats what I have done about five times.

It must be like reading your own writing, maybe I just read what I think it says.

I'm happy for you to just give up or point it out.
I have always been a better lurker.

141

CuriousLurker Sun, Dec 26, 2010 6:31:54pm

re: #139 ozbloke

Thanks again, that second link might prove helpful, its about the original leak.

You're welcome.

Though I'm was looking for answers to two questions.
1. The edited video released by wikileaks, did wikileaks edit it or did they release somthing that was given to them edited.

That's easy. Assange admitted to Stephen Colbert that he/WikiLeaks edited because "we will try and get the maximum political impact for the material". Starts around 2:30:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

2. Who released the unedited video, wikileaks or the US Govt.

Wikileaks. It's also in the video above.

Please don't feel you have to find the answer for me.

As I said above, not a problem in this case as it was a recent post. I'm outta here for now. Later, lizards.

142

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Dec 26, 2010 6:32:51pm

re: #141 CuriousLurker

You're welcome.

That's easy. Assange admitted to Stephen Colbert that he/WikiLeaks edited because "we will try and get the maximum political impact for the material". Starts around 2:30:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Wikileaks. It's also in the video above.

As I said above, not a problem in this case as it was a recent post. I'm outta here for now. Later, lizards.

Wonderful, thank you.

143

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sun, Dec 26, 2010 10:47:22pm

If they copped to having edited the video and had released the unedited video together with the edited one, you could make the argument that if they try to be deceptive or are used in a deceptive manner, then it is a very obvious and hence bad deception.

144

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Mon, Dec 27, 2010 12:19:09am

re: #26 Aceofwhat?

Meh. I like this definition.

One writer in 1656 defines 'irony' in this way: "An Irony is a nipping jeast, or a speech that hath the honey of pleasantnesse in its mouth, and a sting of rebuke in its taile" (OED). Even though this definition is 350 years old, it gets to the heart of the essential qualities all ironies share. Basically, irony is a message or an event that has two levels of meaning--its 'face value', and 'what it really means'. On the one hand there is appearance, and on the other hand reality. The jest, "He's such an honest man," said about a crooked politician has the 'sting of rebuke' since it shows the incongruity of reality with what was actually said.

Assange is complaining about a leak of information pertaining to him. I agree with BigPapa in that i find his complaint quite ironic. Deliciously so, in fact.

Enh. Not really what I was getting at. Irony has to do with intent on behalf of a speaker. When ascribing irony to historical events, for instance, I feel that that is not much different from ascribing "intelligent design" to nature.

145

Funky_Gibbon Mon, Dec 27, 2010 1:13:54am

Hmm... I never realised that Assange and Bollocks could be used interchangably but now it seems so obvious.

Spy Mode Auto

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