Onion: Radical Social Security Reform Measures Proposed
Tax incentives for seniors who bungee jump
Humor • Views: 54,774
741 comments
1 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 28, 2011 4:29:22pm |
die a mother fuckin legend!....why do I relate to that?
| 3 |
Obdicut Thu, Jul 28, 2011 4:58:45pm |
The Onion will remain the most accurate record of our time.
That and Dan Savage columns.
| 4 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:00:42pm |
In the spirit of the new SS program, Apple has released this new app for the iPhone.
| 5 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:02:23pm |
re: #4 Slumbering Behemoth
In the spirit of the new SS program, Apple has released this new app for the iPhone.
Speaking of which...
NRSC blasts 'lewd, violent, anti-Christian' Dan Savage
Walsh sent over a series of clips that includes a reference to "Jesus freaks" and, perhaps more to the point, some evidence that Savage isn't exactly a political neutral: A column last year titled "F*** the Republican Party," which he described with typical understatement as "an implacable mortal enemy."
| 6 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:05:31pm |
Pussy Tax: not what I thought it would be.
| 7 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:05:40pm |
Damn, replied to the wrong comment.
I will hang my head in shame.
OK, done with that.
| 8 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:08:25pm |
| 9 |
engineer cat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:10:25pm |
says it all:
The speaker said he couldn't understand why some conservative Republicans recoiled from his plan.
"Barack Obama hates it, [Sen.] Harry Reid hates it, [Rep.] Nancy Pelosi hates it," he said
like my buddy phila said, "if hillary clinton declared that eating excrement might be bad for your health, the next day every wingnut in creation would be spooning it up as fast as possible and declaring it tasted like ice cream"
| 11 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:13:03pm |
re: #10 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
She was faking it.
the GOP has a plan to legislate tiny, micro meters planted in the vagina of all women 18 years and older....these meters will track insertion, time inside, and extraction whereupon they will be taxed for the usage....like a highway
| 12 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:13:25pm |
| 13 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:13:57pm |
re: #11 albusteve
the GOP has a plan to legislate tiny, micro meters planted in the vagina of all women 18 years and older...these meters will track insertion, time inside, and extraction whereupon they will be taxed for the usage...like a highway
No wonder they're so wrapped up about outlawing homosexuality. They're worried about tax evasion.
| 14 |
recusancy Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:15:02pm |
TNC has a good column this week:
Obama has been much praised for the magnanimity he shows his opposition. But such empathy, unburdened by actual expectations, comes easy. More challenging is the work of coping with those who have the disagreeable habit of taking the president, and his talk of “fundamentally transforming the United States of America” seriously. In that business, Obama would do well to understand that while democracy depends on intelligent compromise, it also depends on the ill-tempered gripers and groaners out in the street.
| 15 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:15:42pm |
re: #11 albusteve
the GOP has a plan to legislate tiny, micro meters planted in the vagina of all women 18 years and older...these meters will track insertion, time inside, and extraction whereupon they will be taxed for the usage...like a highway
Oh. Will they break it down to half-minutes? They'd need to if they wanted any of my tax dollars.
| 16 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:18:03pm |
re: #15 Slumbering Behemoth
Oh. Will they break it down to half-minutes? They'd need to if they wanted any of my tax dollars.
You have to reach the meter first.
| 17 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:18:20pm |
re: #13 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
No wonder they're so wrapped up about outlawing homosexuality. They're worried about tax evasion.
yes, exactly...there is growing evidence that science can now tag and follow individual sperms to conclude where they are going, when, how fast and the end location of their journey....connect the dots and we are talking billions
| 19 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:20:51pm |
re: #17 albusteve
yes, exactly...there is growing evidence that science can now tag and follow individual sperms to conclude where they are going, when, how fast and the end location of their journey...connect the dots and we are talking billions
The dots lead mostly to Kleenex.
| 20 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:21:42pm |
re: #19 JasonA
BIG TISSUE IS RIPPING US OFF!!!
| 21 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:23:20pm |
re: #19 JasonA
The dots lead mostly to Kleenex.
A designated towel is more efficient in the long run.
So I've heard.
| 22 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:26:03pm |
re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
A designated towel is more efficient in the long run.
So I've heard.
If I ever stay over your place I'm definitely bringing my own towel.
| 23 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:27:56pm |
| 24 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:28:22pm |
right about here is when I usually post a music vid...but even that could not revive this thread
| 25 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:28:42pm |
Evening all!
I see the thread is already taking a hard turn to the prurient.
Good!
Another 104 degree day, and TS Don looks like it is going to remain teensy and stay in the brush country south of San Antonio. Still, the 3 to 5" of rain of rain will be welcome down there. We are going to get shit all on toast.
| 26 |
wrenchwench Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:29:37pm |
| 27 |
reine.de.tout Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:30:08pm |
re: #25 austin_blue
Evening all!
I see the thread is already taking a hard turn to the prurient.
Good!
Another 104 degree day, and TS Don looks like it is going to remain teensy and stay in the brush country south of San Antonio. Still, the 3 to 5" of rain of rain will be welcome down there. We are going to get shit all on toast.
We were watching news of TS Don last night, and the Roi said the Texas coast was probably praying it would go that way; rain badly needed. We've had an overabundance here the past month. I'm ready to see sunlight again.
| 28 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:30:44pm |
re: #26 wrenchwench
Image: 2d783f0f-20da-43e6-a1a3-9c42a841fc66.jpg
I made it
Hm. Good, but you covered up the receding hairline!
| 29 |
wrenchwench Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:33:11pm |
re: #28 JasonA
Hm. Good, but you covered up the receding hairline!
We have more editing ability here than in the darn lolcat builder.
| 30 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:38:17pm |
re: #22 JasonA
If I ever stay over your place I'm definitely bringing my own towel.
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy says don't forget your towel, and not just for at Kragar's place.
| 31 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:40:20pm |
re: #27 reine.de.tout
We were watching news of TS Don last night, and the Roi said the Texas coast was probably praying it would go that way; rain badly needed. We've had an overabundance here the past month. I'm ready to see sunlight again.
Oh it was more pathetic than that. We were praying for it to do a Wilma and go from a TS to a Cat 5 in 36-hours so it'd get a bigger chunk of the State some rain.
Say hey to the Roi for me. And good evening to you, your majesty.
| 32 |
Sheila Broflovski Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:42:30pm |
re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
A designated towel is more efficient in the long run.
So I've heard.
Don't forget to bring a towel!
| 33 |
reine.de.tout Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:44:11pm |
38 users (supposedly) logged in right now.
Where the heck is everybody? Dinnertime?
| 34 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:45:28pm |
Good job, GOP:
Senior Chinese officials are “appalled” by the impasse among U.S. politicians on raising the nation’s debt ceiling to avoid a default, said Stephen Roach, non-executive chairman of Morgan Stanley Asia Ltd.
“Coming so shortly on the heels of the subprime crisis, the debate over the debt ceiling and the budget deficit is the last straw” for China, New York-based Roach, 65, said in an e- mailed note today. He said his assessment was based on visits to Beijing, Shanghai, Chongqing and Hong Kong.
In another sign of concern within the nation that is the biggest foreign owner of Treasuries, the official China Securities Journal said today that the U.S. stand-off signals long-term dollar weakness that will push up commodity prices and pose inflation risks for the world. In Mumbai yesterday, a former central bank adviser, Yu Yongding, repeated his call for China to reduce its Treasury holdings, adding that a default would be “disastrous.”
Roach cited an unnamed Chinese policy maker as saying in mid-July that “we understand politics, but your government’s continued recklessness is astonishing.” In the past, the economist has met with officials including central bank Governor Zhou Xiaochuan.
[Link: www.fa-mag.com...]
| 35 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:45:46pm |
re: #33 reine.de.tout
38 users (supposedly) logged in right now.
Where the heck is everybody? Dinnertime?
We're playing hide-n-seek, and you just caused me to give myself away.
| 36 |
wrenchwench Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:45:57pm |
re: #33 reine.de.tout
38 users (supposedly) logged in right now.
Where the heck is everybody? Dinnertime?
Watching South Park.
Oops. Time to go!
Bye reine!
| 37 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:48:40pm |
I've come to the conclusion that playing hide-n-seek doesn't go well when everybody hides because we all forget who's 'it'.
| 38 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:48:45pm |
re: #33 reine.de.tout
38 users (supposedly) logged in right now.
Where the heck is everybody? Dinnertime?
I suspect they're violating their towels.
| 40 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:50:27pm |
re: #33 reine.de.tout
38 users (supposedly) logged in right now.
Where the heck is everybody? Dinnertime?
Waiting in line for heirloom seeds.
| 42 |
MittDoesNotCompute Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:52:33pm |
re: #41 b_sharp
Two more years before you start having fun.
69: It's not just a number, it's a lifestyle...
| 43 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:52:41pm |
re: #41 b_sharp
Two more years before you start having fun.
We're only one pig flu virus mutation away from saving Social Security.
| 44 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:54:14pm |
It was only a matter of time...
The Norway Murders, Christianity, Darwin, and tolerance
As predictable as the sunrise, creationists are launching another round of the disgusting practice of trying to tie every mass murderer to Darwin and evolution, self-consistency and logic be damned. This time it’s about Brevik, the bomber and shooter in last Friday’s killings. We saw this at Uncommon Descent on Sunday (“Norway shooter a Darwinian terrorist?”) – itself relying on an article from the fundamentalist WorldNetDaily (“Terrorist proclaimed himself ‘Darwinian,’ not ‘Christian’”), and today from alleged scholar John West at the Discovery Institute (“Fundamentalist Christian or Deranged Social Darwinist?”).
West does the usual thing, word-searching Brevik’s 1500-page screed for the few references to Darwin, and brazenly playing down the hundreds of references to Christianity and God and the Templars and Christian holy war against Islam. These are just brushed off by West. West pretends that Brevik calls himself a “Christian atheist” through pretty optimistic (optimistic from West’s perspective) readings of some Brevik passages, which completely ignores the various quite direct references that Brevik makes towards his own belief in God.
There's No True Scottsmen, but apparently a whole lot of True Darwinists.
| 45 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:55:02pm |
re: #42 talon_262
69: It's not just a number, it's a lifestyle...
That's one way of getting around that new tax. I highly approve.
| 46 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:55:15pm |
re: #11 albusteve
the GOP has a plan to legislate tiny, micro meters planted in the vagina of all women 18 years and older...these meters will track insertion, time inside, and extraction whereupon they will be taxed for the usage...like a highway
There was this academic Democrat who proposed taxing home ownership on the theory that owning a home is the functional equivalent of free rent, hence, income, and that "income" should be taxed.
This fits in nicely to that philosophy. Being married is the equivalent of ... you see where it goes. So both parties can get on top of this idea and pump it for all it's worth. ///
| 47 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:56:14pm |
re: #45 Slumbering Behemoth
That's one way of getting around that new tax. I highly approve.
It's better than learning how to lick your own balls.
| 48 |
makeitstop Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:56:17pm |
The wireless portion of our internet connection has gone toes up, so now we have to use the wired computers on the network. Verizon says we'll get a new modem on Monday.
I may need to take the day off tomorrow.
| 49 |
MittDoesNotCompute Thu, Jul 28, 2011 5:58:49pm |
re: #47 b_sharp
It's better than learning how to lick your own balls.
Wouldn't that require the removal of a couple of sets of ribs, as Marilyn Manson was rumored to have done (IIRC), way back in the day?
| 50 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:01:00pm |
re: #49 talon_262
Wouldn't that require the removal of a couple of sets of ribs, as Marilyn Manson was rumored to have done (IIRC), way back in the day?
Not if you're a dog.
| 51 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:03:51pm |
re: #34 Lidane
Good job, GOP:
[Link: www.fa-mag.com...]
The cure is obvious. The Republicans are at fault, because they are objecting to projected deficits of $1E12 as far as the eye can see. The Democrats have a sound plan: raise the debt limit as often as needed, just as the rabbit escapes greyhounds at the track. Then, carry on with the spending party, except include some more stimulus.
Oh, and raise taxes on the top 1 percent. Okay, 2. 5. 15. Whatever it takes to boost revenue by 60 percent above where it is now.
Now, turning serious, yes, the Republicans are at fault. They should acquiesce in some of what the Democrats want. Both factions hold some cards, both have to play ball. But the Democrats have not acquiesced in any serious sense to anything the Republicans want, at least not in any open forum.
The public is right---both factions are to some extent at fault here.
| 52 |
kirkspencer Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:07:26pm |
re: #51 lostlakehiker
The cure is obvious. The Republicans are at fault, because they are objecting to projected deficits of $1E12 as far as the eye can see. The Democrats have a sound plan: raise the debt limit as often as needed, just as the rabbit escapes greyhounds at the track. Then, carry on with the spending party, except include some more stimulus.
Oh, and raise taxes on the top 1 percent. Okay, 2. 5. 15. Whatever it takes to boost revenue by 60 percent above where it is now.
Now, turning serious, yes, the Republicans are at fault. They should acquiesce in some of what the Democrats want. Both factions hold some cards, both have to play ball. But the Democrats have not acquiesced in any serious sense to anything the Republicans want, at least not in any open forum.
The public is right---both factions are to some extent at fault here.
Seriously? There was an offer on the table, in addition to all the tax cuts and such, to reduce social security, medicare, and medicaid, but nothing the Republicans really wanted?
The wand of the MBF is getting very heavy these days.
| 53 |
engineer cat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:11:00pm |
re: #51 lostlakehiker
But the Democrats have not acquiesced in any serious sense to anything the Republicans want
the debt ceiling is usually raised without other issues being written into the legislation. the republicans have insisted on including spending cuts. obama agreed to spending cuts if the republicans would agree to revenue increases as part of the deal
um, this would be acquiescing in the republicans' desire to tie spending cuts to the debt ceiling increase
the republicans refuse to concede any of their precious tax breaks
haven't you been following the news?
| 54 |
avanti Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:12:49pm |
Good news, God is helping the GOP decide the debt vote:
"Adding even more drama to an already chaotic evening in the Capitol, several members of the South Carolina delegation retreated to an ornate chapel to pray on the issue.
Asked whether divine inspiration might hit during prayer, Rep. Tim Scott (R-S.C.), a freshman from Charleston, replied: “Divine inspiration already happened. I was a lean no, and now I’m a no.”
| 55 |
MittDoesNotCompute Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:12:59pm |
re: #53 engineer dog
the debt ceiling is usually raised without other issues being written into the legislation. the republicans have insisted on including spending cuts. obama agreed to spending cuts if the republicans would agree to revenue increases as part of the deal
um, this would be acquiescing in the republicans' desire to tie spending cuts to the debt ceiling increase
the republicans refuse to concede any of their precious tax breaks
haven't you been following the news?
Facts are of no consequence to the hardcore political partisan.
| 56 |
engineer cat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:14:03pm |
if there's one thing we've learned from republicans in the past 30 years, it's that wealthy people and multinational corporations are very delicate flowers who must be pampered at every turn, and if we don't like it we should remember that we should really just kiss their butts since they create everything and we are just lowly employees
| 57 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:14:15pm |
re: #51 lostlakehiker
The cure is obvious. The Republicans are at fault, because they are objecting to projected deficits of $1E12 as far as the eye can see. The Democrats have a sound plan: raise the debt limit as often as needed, just as the rabbit escapes greyhounds at the track. Then, carry on with the spending party, except include some more stimulus.
Oh, and raise taxes on the top 1 percent. Okay, 2. 5. 15. Whatever it takes to boost revenue by 60 percent above where it is now.
Now, turning serious, yes, the Republicans are at fault. They should acquiesce in some of what the Democrats want. Both factions hold some cards, both have to play ball. But the Democrats have not acquiesced in any serious sense to anything the Republicans want, at least not in any open forum.
The public is right---both factions are to some extent at fault here.
$4 trillion in cuts over ten years wasn't meeting them halfway?
Revenues need to increase by 40% to meet August costs.
| 58 |
Ojoe Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:15:17pm |
I think the older you get the steeper your stairs should be, then at a certain age, only ladders; and finally in your 70s, no ladders, use catapults & fire poles.
This will greatly reduce "health" care costs.
Only slightly kidding.
| 59 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:17:39pm |
re: #54 avanti
God does not speak to them, nor through them. They just make shit up and tell everyone else "This is what God told me to do".
| 60 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:17:47pm |
re: #56 engineer dog
if there's one thing we've learned from republicans in the past 30 years, it's that wealthy people and multinational corporations are very delicate flowers who must be pampered at every turn, and if we don't like it we should remember that we should really just kiss their butts since they create everything and we are just lowly employees
They've had the tax cuts over a decade! Why aren't these Billionaires and Millionaires -oops- job creators, creatin' jobs with all that money?
It is a puzzlement. Perhaps they need a bigger boat.
| 61 |
Renaissance_Man Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:18:34pm |
re: #51 lostlakehiker
But the Democrats have not acquiesced in any serious sense to anything the Republicans want, at least not in any open forum.
That ultimately depends on what you mean by 'things the Republicans want'. If you mean 'cuts to social programs and other sacred cows', which is what some Republicans have stated they want, then no, you'd be wrong, since those have been offered in return for tax increases.
If you mean 'the right to endlessly spew hatred and blame liberals and Democrats for all the evils of history, as well as the immediate removal of the Usurper in the White House', which is what the Conservative cult that currently owns the Republican Party actually wants, then yes, I guess Democrats haven't acquiesced to that, openly at any rate.
| 62 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:18:36pm |
re: #51 lostlakehiker
The cure is obvious. The Republicans are at fault, because they are objecting to projected deficits of $1E12 as far as the eye can see. The Democrats have a sound plan: raise the debt limit as often as needed, just as the rabbit escapes greyhounds at the track. Then, carry on with the spending party, except include some more stimulus.
Oh, and raise taxes on the top 1 percent. Okay, 2. 5. 15. Whatever it takes to boost revenue by 60 percent above where it is now.
Now, turning serious, yes, the Republicans are at fault. They should acquiesce in some of what the Democrats want. Both factions hold some cards, both have to play ball. But the Democrats have not acquiesced in any serious sense to anything the Republicans want, at least not in any open forum.
The public is right---both factions are to some extent at fault here.
Where have they suggested they continue the 'spending party'?
| 63 |
engineer cat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:19:09pm |
hobbits
this vote may just be the point of divorce between the wingnuts and the wall st republicans
| 64 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:19:31pm |
re: #33 reine.de.tout
38 users (supposedly) logged in right now.
Where the heck is everybody? Dinnertime?
lurkarama
| 65 |
Renaissance_Man Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:20:47pm |
re: #62 b_sharp
Where have they suggested they continue the 'spending party'?
Silly. Everyone knows that's what those Democrats are like. You can tell by the way they're totally Democrats, and so blatant in their Democratness.
| 66 |
Ojoe Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:21:14pm |
re: #63 engineer dog
Most people are hobbits as opposed to fat cats, funny choice of words there Mr. McCain, that's going to stick for years.
| 67 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:21:34pm |
re: #33 reine.de.tout
38 users (supposedly) logged in right now.
Where the heck is everybody? Dinnertime?
doing sit ups and crunches
| 68 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:21:54pm |
re: #51 lostlakehiker
Oh, and raise taxes on the top 1 percent. Okay, 2. 5. 15. Whatever it takes to boost revenue by 60 percent above where it is now.
Screw that. Raise taxes on the top 50%, progressively. And close the loopholes that allow some rich people to qualify for food stamps and corporations to pay negative taxes.
We could also save money in various ways. As a nation we spend an inordinate amount on healthcare. Instead of different programs for children, elderly, etc plus private insurance, we should just wrap it all into a single payer plan. We could significantly reduce military expenditures and still remain militarily competitive with anyone in the world. We should have some sort of oversight office that tracks the spending of various government departments and can somehow hold them accountable for waste. And so on.
| 69 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:22:14pm |
re: #64 Stanley Sea
I'm pretending to lurk, but I don't think I'm fooling anyone.
| 70 |
Ojoe Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:22:16pm |
| 71 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:23:34pm |
re: #59 Slumbering Behemoth
God does not speak to them, nor through them. They just make shit up and tell everyone else "This is what God told me to do".
Graham Chapman speaks to me.
| 72 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:25:00pm |
| 73 |
goddamnedfrank Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:26:22pm |
re: #57 austin_blue
$4 trillion in cuts over ten years wasn't meeting them halfway?
Revenues need to increase by 40% to meet August costs.
Fix old no new!
| 74 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:27:32pm |
re: #72 austin_blue
Sinner! Cast off the demon that inhabits ye!
I tried to get John Cleese to speak to me but living people seem to be more discerning than dead people.
| 75 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:27:57pm |
| 76 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:28:08pm |
| 77 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:29:36pm |
re: #76 austin_blue
Fuck. Latest model run for TS Don:
[Link: www.wunderground.com...]
Popcorn fart of a storm...
in 30min it will be raining on my head....
neener
neener
| 78 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:30:21pm |
re: #46 lostlakehiker
There was this academic Democrat who proposed taxing home ownership on the theory that owning a home is the functional equivalent of free rent, hence, income, and that "income" should be taxed.
This fits in nicely to that philosophy. Being married is the equivalent of ... you see where it goes. So both parties can get on top of this idea and pump it for all it's worth. ///
So what did this genius call property taxes?
| 79 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:31:34pm |
re: #33 reine.de.tout
38 users (supposedly) logged in right now.
Where the heck is everybody? Dinnertime?
2 1/2 men
| 80 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:31:48pm |
re: #77 albusteve
in 30min it will be raining on my head...
neener
neener
Actually, if the HWRF model is correct, you'll get more precip out of the remnant low than I will. Good luck to you, Steve. Y'all need it at least as much as we do.
| 82 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:32:45pm |
re: #78 Naso Tang
So what did this genius call property taxes?
Locally generated revenue. I pay over $600/month.
| 84 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:36:28pm |
| 85 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:36:44pm |
re: #80 austin_blue
Actually, if the HWRF model is correct, you'll get more precip out of the remnant low than I will. Good luck to you, Steve. Y'all need it at least as much as we do.
we have the Sandias and the Monzanos mountains to my east....the warm air gets pushed over them from the east....the air rises, condenses and presto! rain...the city of ABQ is not hurting for drinking water and we are not as parched as west and south Texas....close tho
| 86 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:37:46pm |
| 87 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:39:01pm |
re: #82 austin_blue
Locally generated revenue. I pay over $600/month.
I pay more for insurance than I do property taxes.
| 88 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:41:05pm |
| 89 |
engineer cat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:41:39pm |
| 90 |
Ojoe Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:41:57pm |
| 91 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:42:02pm |
re: #85 albusteve
we have the Sandias and the Monzanos mountains to my east...the warm air gets pushed over them from the east...the air rises, condenses and presto! rain...the city of ABQ is not hurting for drinking water and we are not as parched as west and south Texas...close tho
Yah, but that water debt you've got hanging over from the agreement to share Rio Grande water hangs over you like the Sword of Damocles. And Elephant Butte needs as much as it can collect. Everybody has been talking about the huge snowpack this year in the Rockies feeding the Missouri and the Colorado, but the San Juans got squat.
| 92 |
Eclectic Infidel Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:42:08pm |
Whenever I post Onion News to my FB page, it seems to being out the best in people, regardless of political affiliation.
| 93 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:42:27pm |
re: #87 Naso Tang
I pay more for insurance than I do property taxes.
life is a bitch....I did all that for decades, now I'm on easy street in my old age...now I own nothing, owe nobody and I love it
| 94 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:43:33pm |
re: #93 albusteve
life is a bitch...I did all that for decades, now I'm on easy street in my old age...now I own nothing, owe nobody and I love it
I would be too, if I had sold off in 2007
| 95 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:44:28pm |
re: #87 Naso Tang
I pay more for insurance than I do property taxes.
Yeah, well, you've got a State Income Tax. We don't, so we get it in the neck with property taxes to fund our Socialist schools, dontcha know.
| 96 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:45:49pm |
re: #95 austin_blue
Yeah, well, you've got a State Income Tax. We don't, so we get it in the neck with property taxes to fund our Socialist schools, dontcha know.
Socialism! What is it good for?
| 97 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:48:23pm |
re: #95 austin_blue
Nope. I'm in Florida. Wait a minute....
| 98 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:48:31pm |
re: #91 austin_blue
Yah, but that water debt you've got hanging over from the agreement to share Rio Grande water hangs over you like the Sword of Damocles. And Elephant Butte needs as much as it can collect. Everybody has been talking about the huge snowpack this year in the Rockies feeding the Missouri and the Colorado, but the San Juans got squat.
we get some water from the San Juan deal, and not much because we have so little drainage into the short distance that water flows through NM....so snowpack is a huge part of our gig down here...last year there was a ton of snow here as well as up in CO that fed the Rio Grande...as you say, this year it's less...on a good year we have plenty of water, enough to send more down to Texas...this year will be dicey
| 99 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:50:04pm |
re: #95 austin_blue
Yeah, well, you've got a State Income Tax. We don't, so we get it in the neck with property taxes to fund our Socialist schools, dontcha know.
...and I didn't say property taxes were low.
| 100 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:51:38pm |
Just us three chickens here I see. Maybe I'll check out Charlie Sheen and see how the boner's vote is coming along (I don't multitask with my PC like Charles).
| 101 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:52:07pm |
re: #94 Naso Tang
I would be too, if I had sold off in 2007
actually I own stuff but owe nothing on it...and I live pretty lean because it's easy to do...I'm no pauper by a long way
| 102 |
reine.de.tout Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:53:26pm |
| 103 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:54:12pm |
re: #102 reine.de.tout
What's the point of lurking, though, if nobody is saying anything?
Huh? Did you say something?
| 104 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:54:25pm |
I dub this the official debt debate song
| 106 |
Olsonist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:55:16pm |
re: #102 reine.de.tout
What's the point of lurking, though, if nobody is saying anything?
Just in case you make the slightest misstep, we're here ready to pounce.
| 107 |
reine.de.tout Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:56:00pm |
re: #103 b_sharp
Huh? Did you say something?
what?
Can't hear ya, sonny!
(Ears stopped up for three days now, I'm about to go crazy)
| 108 |
reine.de.tout Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:56:18pm |
re: #106 Olsonist
Just in case you make the slightest misstep, we're here ready to pounce.
ooooooh!
Good one!
| 109 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:57:58pm |
re: #107 reine.de.tout
what?
Can't hear ya, sonny!
(Ears stopped up for three days now, I'm about to go crazy)
Mineral oil, followed by hydrogen peroxide.
Or a 3/8" auger.
| 110 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:58:42pm |
re: #107 reine.de.tout
what?
Can't hear ya, sonny!
(Ears stopped up for three days now, I'm about to go crazy)
They say if it's up for more than four hours you should see a physician.
| 111 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 6:59:52pm |
re: #110 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
They say if it's up for more than four hours you should see a physician.
And if it's been down for more than four days?
| 112 |
albusteve Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:00:50pm |
damn I love this song...personally
a wall of sound....a supreme ballad
Ozzy
| 113 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:01:49pm |
Dinner time. Frenchified wax beans, smashed taters, and a hunk of lamb, grilled.
Nom nom noms.
BBIAB
| 114 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:03:16pm |
| 115 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:05:06pm |
Well, it's 10pm EST, and still no word if we'll see Boehner's bill voted on today. Thank God I don't have stocks.
| 116 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:08:01pm |
re: #115 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Well, it's 10pm EST, and still no word if we'll see Boehner's bill voted on today. Thank God I don't have stocks.
It's 2 am
The fear is gone
I'm sitting here waiting
The gun's still warm
| 117 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:08:49pm |
re: #115 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
When the market first crashed? I told people, "I'm feeling kind of smug; I've squandered every dime I've ever made, therefore I didn't lose any money like all those careful investors."
| 118 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:18:06pm |
I saw "Captain America" today. As much as I wanted to love it? I only kind of liked it.
| 119 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:18:37pm |
re: #118 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I saw "Captain America" today. As much as I wanted to love it? I only kind of liked it.
Not a great film, but an okay one?
| 120 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:19:56pm |
Weird. This just happened...TPM Talking Points Memo
Talking Points Memo
TPM Talking Points Memo
RT @allahpundit Just happened 5 min ago. Pounded the table, then made aggressive physical contact w/ Hugh, who looked bewildered.
7 minutes ago
Talking Points Memo
TPM Talking Points Memo
RT @guypbenson: Wow. Democratic Pollster Pat Caddell got mad & struck @hughhewitt on Hannity's panel. #CultureOfHate #NewTone
8 minutes ago
| 121 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:20:52pm |
re: #101 albusteve
I can relate and try to do the same, but much of what we have was/is in property. On the other hand the stock market was a steal in 2008.
| 122 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:21:17pm |
I just got back from breaking the law.
A bunch of guys from the office along with both my immediate boss, and the boss of the over all company decided to ask around if anyone was interested in playing some Poker with $5 as the buy in and another possible $5 buy back after being whipped out for the first time.
I ended getting wiped out once, but to my credit when all was said and done I had $16 in chips in front of me.
The company CEO had around $36 (and nobody else had any) proving why he's in charge of the company.
To my credit, we all had fun and the CEO level boss said that he was tempted to increase my pay $300 a month stipend to $320 so that I could do it every week....
| 123 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:21:18pm |
re: #52 kirkspencer
The wand of the MBF is getting very heavy these days.
The MBF is on strike. She's too busy slamming her head into the nearest wall at all the Republican fail.
| 124 |
jaunte Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:21:47pm |
re: #120 Gus 802
[Link: www.therightscoop.com...]
| 125 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:21:50pm |
re: #118 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I saw "Captain America" today. As much as I wanted to love it? I only kind of liked it.
I liked it, but thought Thor was better.
| 126 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:22:20pm |
re: #119 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Yeah. Pretty much. The Red Skull was played by Hugo Weaving (Agent Smith from the Matrix). He was excellent (reprising his Agent Smith role, with cooler makeup). The Captain himself? Left me a bit, "meh".
| 127 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:23:00pm |
re: #118 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I saw "Captain America" today. As much as I wanted to love it? I only kind of liked it.
As long as it's better than that steaming pile of CGI fail called Green Lantern, I'll consider it a win.
| 128 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:23:19pm |
re: #118 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I saw "Captain America" today. As much as I wanted to love it? I only kind of liked it.
I watched the original TV series. So corny it was great.
| 129 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:24:41pm |
re: #124 jaunte
[Link: www.therightscoop.com...]
Pat might need to go to anger management class or something.
| 130 |
jaunte Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:24:46pm |
| 131 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:24:59pm |
re: #122 jamesfirecat
I just got back from breaking the law.
A bunch of guys from the office along with both my immediate boss, and the boss of the over all company decided to ask around if anyone was interested in playing some Poker with $5 as the buy in and another possible $5 buy back after being whipped out for the first time.
I ended getting wiped out once, but to my credit when all was said and done I had $16 in chips in front of me.
The company CEO had around $36 (and nobody else had any) proving why he's in charge of the company.
To my credit, we all had fun and the CEO level boss said that he was tempted to increase my pay $300 a month stipend to $320 so that I could do it every week...
You're only breaking the law if you get caught.
| 132 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:25:19pm |
I did like that they brought the Howling Commandos into the Capt America movie.
| 133 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:27:15pm |
re: #124 jaunte
[Link: www.therightscoop.com...]
And of course you know what this will mean in intertoob world...
SEE! LIBRULS ARE MORE VIOLENT THAN CONSERVATIVES!!11ty
Guaranteed.
| 134 |
reine.de.tout Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:27:49pm |
re: #122 jamesfirecat
I just got back from breaking the law.
A bunch of guys from the office along with both my immediate boss, and the boss of the over all company decided to ask around if anyone was interested in playing some Poker with $5 as the buy in and another possible $5 buy back after being whipped out for the first time.
I ended getting wiped out once, but to my credit when all was said and done I had $16 in chips in front of me.
The company CEO had around $36 (and nobody else had any) proving why he's in charge of the company.
To my credit, we all had fun and the CEO level boss said that he was tempted to increase my pay $300 a month stipend to $320 so that I could do it every week...
A private poker game is illegal?
| 135 |
jaunte Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:27:50pm |
Workers at Ikea's first U.S. factory vote 221-69 for Uniøn
Laborers in Swedwood plants in Sweden produce bookcases and tables similar to those manufactured in Danville. The big difference is that the Europeans enjoy a minimum wage of about $19 an hour and a government-mandated five weeks of paid vacation. Full-time employees in Danville start at $8 an hour with 12 vacation days — eight of them on dates determined by the company.
| 137 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:28:33pm |
Via TPM, there aren't going to be any votes tonight.
Link incoming.
| 138 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:28:44pm |
Considering events in Libya, a page is being written.
Sorry I didn't do one sooner. Between issues at home, and the fact that Norway took my attention, I was distracted.
| 140 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:30:29pm |
re: #135 jaunte
Yeah, but most of Ikea's stuff still comes from lower wage countries.
| 141 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:31:28pm |
re: #133 Gus 802
And of course you know what this will mean in intertoob world...
Guaranteed.
He slapped him on the arm.
| 144 |
reine.de.tout Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:32:22pm |
re: #124 jaunte
[Link: www.therightscoop.com...]
Honestly, that didn't look like much of a strike to me - but the guy has been around and should know that just didn't look good.
But Hannity should control what's going on better, and make sure everybody gets to have a say without interruption.
| 145 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:32:37pm |
re: #135 jaunte
Danville, VA. I was there today.
Is an absolutely decimated manufacturing town. Unions haven't done so well for the town in the past.
But, I wish the Union luck on improving the employees lives.
That town has been on a downward spiral since the late sixties. They need a win.
| 146 |
Interesting Times Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:33:35pm |
re: #124 jaunte
[Link: www.therightscoop.com...]
Can't help but notice that website has Pam Geller and Glenn Beck in their sidebar. My computer feels dirty now.
| 148 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:34:06pm |
re: #146 publicityStunted
Can't help but notice that website has Pam Geller and Glenn Beck in their sidebar. My computer feels dirty now.
What are they doing?
| 149 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:36:30pm |
| 151 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:38:11pm |
re: #147 Gus 802
Won't matter. See how it reads in #120.
Hewitt had a smile on his face because he knew that slap won him the point.
The extreme right claims the moral high ground while utilizing dishonest debate tactics.
| 152 |
jaunte Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:38:21pm |
re: #146 publicityStunted
Sorry, I just clicked on the first site showing the video.
| 153 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:38:36pm |
re: #149 Killgore Trout
Party of No declines to say no.
They don't want to make a decision. They don't want to govern.
What the fuck kind of political party is that? I don't get it.
| 154 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:39:09pm |
Hot Air Commenter...
Yippee. The markets will crash tomorrow. The Asian markets are already crashing. Yeah.andy85719 on July 28, 2011 at 10:31 PM
HOORAY!
/wingnut
| 155 |
jaunte Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:40:16pm |
Eric Boehlert:
Obstructionist GOP obstructs the GOP
| 156 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:40:33pm |
re: #154 Killgore Trout
Hot Air Commenter...
HOORAY!
/wingnut
It's like watching a bunch of children.
| 157 |
jaunte Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:43:05pm |
Asian Indexes
Asian markets are lower today as Chinese and Hong Kong shares fall. The Shanghai Composite is off 0.08% while the Hang Seng is down 0.34%. The Nikkei 225 is not trading.
[Link: money.cnn.com...]
| 158 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:43:13pm |
re: #143 Lidane
Luap Dnar to House GOP: Vote for Boehner bill and Lose Your Principles
Yes, but he kind of has a point (given that everyone else is a RINO anyway) in that they don't believe the Senate will pass, so it's pointless.
| 159 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:43:55pm |
re: #156 JasonA
It's like watching a bunch of children.
Like watching a bunch of children play with the detonator to a couple hundred pounds of C4 buried below our communal home.
Who cares about the economy, BRIGHT BUTTONS!
| 160 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:44:13pm |
re: #156 JasonA
It's like watching a bunch of children.
Children have an excuse for not knowing any better.
| 161 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:44:26pm |
re: #159 jamesfirecat
Like watching a bunch of children play with the detonator to a couple hundred pounds of C4 buried below our communal home.
Who cares about the economy, BRIGHT BUTTONS!
SHINY!
| 162 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:44:37pm |
re: #160 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Children have an excuse for not knowing any better.
Children also have more common sense.
| 163 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:45:39pm |
| 164 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:45:47pm |
re: #154 Killgore Trout
Hot Air Commenter...
HOORAY!
/wingnut
What's that sucking sound? Oh, it's the US economy going down the drain.
| 165 |
jaunte Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:46:13pm |
re: #143 Lidane
Luap Dnar to House GOP: Vote for Boehner bill and Lose Your Principles
Now even deadbeat dads can stand on principle; sticking to your guns no matter who gets hurt is the new gold standard.
| 166 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:48:26pm |
re: #158 Naso Tang
Yes, but he kind of has a point (given that everyone else is a RINO anyway) in that they don't believe the Senate will pass, so it's pointless.
But on the other hand while I'm still trying to understand this, why did the Boner want the exercise? Did he just want to be able to claim that it was the Democrats that said no, all the while knowing he was wasting time?
That is even less principled than the Tea Party stance, I think.
| 167 |
engineer cat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:48:48pm |
re: #155 jaunte
Eric Boehlert:
Obstructionist GOP obstructs the GOP
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
here's a message for any tea party hobbits that might be listening:
stop holding the full faith and credit of the united states of america hostage to your "demands" and pass a clean debt ceiling bill
| 168 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:52:20pm |
re: #165 jaunte
Now even deadbeat dads can stand on principle; sticking to your guns no matter who gets hurt is the new gold standard.
Standing on your principles just for the sake of saying you stood on your principles is idiotic.
| 169 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:52:58pm |
re: #166 Naso Tang
But on the other hand while I'm still trying to understand this, why did the Boner want the exercise? Did he just want to be able to claim that it was the Democrats that said no, all the while knowing he was wasting time?
That is even less principled than the Tea Party stance, I think.
Pretty much. Boehner wanted to go into the default with a Republican plan out there, so that he could say that the Senate's refusal to vote on it or Obama's refusal to sign it was the reason why we failed to meet the deadline.
Now? He's got nothing, because his own party is putting their "principles" before country, because they want to "stop Obama's spending." So pull up a chair, because we've got front-row seats to the Second Great Recession.
| 170 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:54:40pm |
re: #167 engineer dog
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
here's a message for any tea party hobbits that might be listening:
stop holding the full faith and credit of the united states of america hostage to your "demands" and pass a clean debt ceiling bill
That can be shortened to "use your fucking heads!".
| 171 |
Digital Display Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:55:10pm |
Hiya Lizards..Still staying at a hotel while waiting for somebody to fix the A/C...Winston is asleep on a pillow and we found out he hates glass elevators.. Freaks him out
| 172 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:55:31pm |
re: #120 Gus 802
Weird. This just happened...TPM Talking Points Memo
Talking Points Memo
TPM Talking Points Memo
RT @allahpundit Just happened 5 min ago. Pounded the table, then made aggressive physical contact w/ Hugh, who looked bewildered.
7 minutes agoTalking Points Memo
TPM Talking Points Memo
RT @guypbenson: Wow. Democratic Pollster Pat Caddell got mad & struck @hughhewitt on Hannity's panel. #CultureOfHate #NewTone
8 minutes ago
Er...huh?
| 173 |
Interesting Times Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:56:09pm |
re: #153 Lidane
They don't want to make a decision. They don't want to govern.
What the fuck kind of political party is that? I don't get it.
Mere words would be inadequate, so here's a visual metaphor.
| 174 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:57:04pm |
re: #168 b_sharp
Standing on your principles just for the sake of saying you stood on your principles is idiotic.
"Sure, we fucked over millions of people, but we kept to our guns."
| 175 |
jaunte Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:57:06pm |
re: #169 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
they want to "stop Obama's spending."
They need supplemental reading:
"All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills."
| 176 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:57:41pm |
re: #120 Gus 802
Weird. This just happened...TPM Talking Points Memo
Talking Points Memo
TPM Talking Points Memo
RT @allahpundit Just happened 5 min ago. Pounded the table, then made aggressive physical contact w/ Hugh, who looked bewildered.
7 minutes agoTalking Points Memo
TPM Talking Points Memo
RT @guypbenson: Wow. Democratic Pollster Pat Caddell got mad & struck @hughhewitt on Hannity's panel. #CultureOfHate #NewTone
8 minutes ago
You should try watching it without sound. Quite entertaining.
| 177 |
prairiefire Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:57:48pm |
re: #171 HoosierHoops
Hiya Lizards..Still staying at a hotel while waiting for somebody to fix the A/C...Winston is asleep on a pillow and we found out he hates glass elevators.. Freaks him out
He needs little doggie blinders.
| 178 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:58:12pm |
re: #172 SanFranciscoZionist
Er...huh?
Slapped Hewitt on the arm on Hannity's show because he wouldn't let him finish a sentence.
The new fauxtrage/nontraversy. Liberal violence is worse than Norway!
| 179 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:58:50pm |
re: #178 austin_blue
Slapped Hewitt on the arm on Hannity's show because he wouldn't let him finish a sentence.
The new fauxtrage/nontraversy. Liberal violence is worse than Norway!
Note from a teacher: never, never make physical contact.
| 180 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 7:59:51pm |
re: #174 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
"Sure, we fucked over millions of people, but we kept to our guns."
Rational thought is for elites and socialists.
| 181 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:00:25pm |
re: #179 SanFranciscoZionist
Note from a teacher: never, never make physical contact.
True. But there's a liiiitle part of me that wants him to break his jaw for being such a fatuous asshole.
| 182 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:01:15pm |
re: #172 SanFranciscoZionist
Considering the crap we get day in and day out, I have no sympathy.
| 183 |
jaunte Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:01:21pm |
Mr. Boehner and his top lieutenants called it a night after more than five hours of furious arm-twisting of freshman Republicans, many of whom emerged from the closed-door sessions appearing to be firmer in their opposition.
The Godfather he ain't.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
| 184 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:01:29pm |
re: #179 SanFranciscoZionist
Note from a teacher: never, never make physical contact.
Hewitt won that exchange not because of his argument but because he became a victim and a martyr.
| 185 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:02:04pm |
It's really fucking ridiculous that half the House can't even get together for this.
| 186 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:02:21pm |
re: #184 b_sharp
Hewitt won that exchange not because of his argument but because he became a victim and a martyr.
Plus, he gets a pussy tax credit
| 187 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:02:27pm |
re: #183 jaunte
The Godfather he ain't.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
Maybe if he weren't orange, they could take him seriously.
| 188 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:02:43pm |
re: #183 jaunte
I have to hope to hell that any remaining sane Republicans join with the Democrats on whatever happens next.
| 189 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:03:13pm |
re: #188 ProLifeLiberal
I have to hope to hell that any remaining sane Republicans join with the Democrats on whatever happens next.
both of them?
| 190 |
jaunte Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:03:28pm |
re: #187 EmmmieG
Hard to believe he can't even intimidate Louie Gohmert.
| 191 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:03:35pm |
re: #188 ProLifeLiberal
I have to hope to hell that any remaining sane Republicans join with the Democrats on whatever happens next.
Right.
| 192 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:05:38pm |
re: #168 b_sharp
Standing on your principles just for the sake of saying you stood on your principles is idiotic.
“I like persons better than principles, and I like persons with no principles better than anything else in the world."
Oscar Wilde
“Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.”
Groucho Marx
“We all live in the protection of certain cowardices which we call our principles."
Mark Twain
and last but not least:
“Important principles may and must be inflexible."
Abraham Lincoln
| 193 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:07:30pm |
re: #183 jaunte
The Godfather he ain't.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
Thus, it's over for him. He's gonna have no choice but to either pass Reid's plan or hash out a plan with the House Democrats. And either choice is going to infuriate the Teapublicans, which means he'll face losing his Speakership shortly.
| 194 |
justaminute Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:07:32pm |
Well, Chuck Todd reported that the House did name some post offices today.
| 195 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:07:55pm |
Life During Wartime
| 196 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:08:14pm |
re: #173 publicityStunted
Mere words would be inadequate, so here's a visual metaphor.
Ah. So it's like this, then?
| 197 |
Digital Display Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:09:20pm |
re: #177 prairiefire
He needs little doggie blinders.
Poor Winston..He doesn't have a clue what is going on.. The first day we got here I put him on the bed and he cried...Earlier we went home to pick up more clothes and he hid under the bed.. Oh Winston..It's at least a 100 degrees in this house let's go! Nope...
I went and laid on the couch like I was going asleep and he jumped up on me to go to sleep...HaHa..We are out of here Winston!
Tricked again!
| 198 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:09:21pm |
Retweeted by FiveThirtyEight
pourmecoffee
Standard & Poor's downgrading US credit rating to WTF.
| 199 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:09:33pm |
re: #194 justaminute
Well, Chuck Todd reported that the House did name some post offices today.
Yep. The economy is imploding, but at least a bunch of buildings have names now. =P
| 200 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:09:58pm |
re: #193 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Thus, it's over for him. He's gonna have no choice but to either pass Reid's plan or hash out a plan with the House Democrats. And either choice is going to infuriate the Teapublicans, which means he'll face losing his Speakership shortly.
Does that mean whathisname, his backstabbing sidekick, will get it?
That's no improvement for the rest of us.
| 201 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:10:19pm |
re: #199 Lidane
Yep. The economy is imploding, but at least a bunch of buildings have names now. =P
It would be incredibly funny if those Post Offices were on the closure list...
| 202 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:11:12pm |
re: #201 JasonA
It would be incredibly funny if those Post Offices were on the closure list...
It wouldn't surprise me. That's par for the course with these assholes.
| 203 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:11:30pm |
re: #201 JasonA
It would be incredibly funny if those Post Offices were on the closure list...
The post office is a self financing business, is it not? Why does congress name post offices?
| 205 |
Achilles Tang Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:12:20pm |
| 206 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:14:03pm |
re: #200 Naso Tang
Does that mean whathisname, his backstabbing sidekick, will get it?
That's no improvement for the rest of us.
Yeah, Cantor's likely to get the Speaker's gavel. When that happens, then Boehner's bumbling will seem like a blissful memory.
| 209 |
Killgore Trout Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:15:40pm |
| 210 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:15:44pm |
| 211 |
jaunte Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:15:49pm |
Nate Silver:
Brilliant tactics by the Democrats. Not so sure about the strategy. Now you have an embarrassed Speaker whose help you very much need.That said, we've certainly had an ample demonstration that going through this again in 6 months is unacceptable.
13 minutes ago
| 212 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:15:50pm |
re: #192 Naso Tang
and last but not least:
"Which principles should be considered flexible and which should be inflexible must be based on rational consideration within the current context."
b_sharp.
| 213 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:17:32pm |
Nearly broke the TV tonite. Laura Ingram was on (why I don't know, don't ask) spewing her blatant Muslim bigotry and Geraldo (of all people) was trying to reason with her.
All about the Ft. Hood near terror attack.
Instead of calling for a big round of THANK YOU to law enforcement, she railed against Muslims --not even qualifying it with 'Radical" or "Jihadi".
What a narrow minded bitch.
Then she had the gall to say that there is no Christian splinter group calling for the elmination of all Muslims. No such thing, doesn't exist--only the Muslims have such a thing . . .
/gah!
| 214 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:17:51pm |
| 215 |
justaminute Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:18:09pm |
re: #206 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Yeah, Cantor's likely to get the Speaker's gavel. When that happens, then Boehner's bumbling will seem like a blissful memory.
Cantor was in the room with Boehner trying to twist arms too. He couldn't get in done either. Probably this group wants a true head tea bag as leader. Then look out. This would just move the craziness up another notch.
| 217 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:18:46pm |
re: #215 justaminute
Cantor was in the room with Boehner trying to twist arms too. He couldn't get in done either. Probably this group wants a true head tea bag as leader. Then look out. This would just move the craziness up another notch.
Speaker Bachmann!!!
| 218 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:18:51pm |
| 219 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:18:59pm |
| 220 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:19:29pm |
| 221 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:20:27pm |
re: #214 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
We could kick their asses if we wanted to.
Doubtful. There is an app for that you know.
| 222 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:20:52pm |
re: #213 ggt
Nearly broke the TV tonite. Laura Ingram was on (why I don't know, don't ask) spewing her blatant Muslim bigotry and Geraldo (of all people) was trying to reason with her.
All about the Ft. Hood near terror attack.
Instead of calling for a big round of THANK YOU to law enforcement, she railed against Muslims --not even qualifying it with 'Radical" or "Jihadi".
What a narrow minded bitch.
Then she had the gall to say that there is no Christian splinter group calling for the elmination of all Muslims. No such thing, doesn't exist--only the Muslims have such a thing . . .
/gah!
I don't know if it's a Christian splinter group, but we have a PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE saying the First Amendment does not apply to Islam.
| 223 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:21:10pm |
re: #211 jaunte
Nate Silver:
So the Democrats should have simply rolled over, instead of embarrassing Boehner?
| 225 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:21:36pm |
Who is Jon Huntsman and is he going to run for POTUS 2012?
| 226 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:21:41pm |
re: #221 b_sharp
Doubtful. There is an app for that you know.
There's a reason Lion has features named "Mission Control", "Launchpad", and "Air Drop."
They're ready.
| 227 |
jaunte Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:23:06pm |
re: #223 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
I'm not sure why Silver thinks Boehner would help the Democrats.
| 229 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:23:57pm |
re: #68 prononymous
Screw that. Raise taxes on the top 50%, progressively. And close the loopholes that allow some rich people to qualify for food stamps and corporations to pay negative taxes.
We could also save money in various ways. As a nation we spend an inordinate amount on healthcare. Instead of different programs for children, elderly, etc plus private insurance, we should just wrap it all into a single payer plan. We could significantly reduce military expenditures and still remain militarily competitive with anyone in the world. We should have some sort of oversight office that tracks the spending of various government departments and can somehow hold them accountable for waste. And so on.
You do realize that we're spending about $20K per person on the poor, right now. For a family of four, that comes to more than the median family income. And yet, all this spending is sacrosanct. Taxes must go up, up, and then up to cover it. And then up some more. Meanwhile, the proposed cuts are smoke and mirrors. We'll get out of Iraq. If we do. But that doesn't cut the baseline spending.
We'll cut payments to doctors for medicare and medicaid. Except we won't really, because even at the current rates, providers are losing money, and they won't be able to sustain taking the kinds of losses the proposed, lower fee schedule would impose on them.
There's been no itemized proposal from the Dems, listing what they would cut, cutting enough to matter, and cutting now rather than down the road in some future Congress, which would not in any case be bound by any such promises.
Yes, taxes must be raised. We're in too deep a hole to get out of it without extra revenue. But raising them on the top few percent alone is neither just, nor sufficient to the needs of the day. Here, Obama has half a point---we do need more revenue.
But we won't get it by taxing corporate jets.
| 230 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:24:57pm |
re: #227 jaunte
I'm not sure why Silver thinks Boehner would help the Democrats.
My guess is they believe that having a bumbler like him as Speaker is somehow "better" for Democrats than a hardcore Teapublican. How, I don't know, but that seems to somehow be the logic.
| 231 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:25:22pm |
re: #229 lostlakehiker
Giving money to the poor isn't the same as tossing it into a black hole. They spend it on stuff. Keeping other people in the black as they do it.
| 232 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:25:22pm |
re: #225 ggt
Who is Jon Huntsman and is he going to run for POTUS 2012?
He just came out with a statement calling for Republicans to acknowledge the reality of AGW and the fact that it's a danger. He continued by saying that conservation is conservative.
That's part of who he is. Someone who doesn't pretend like science is all wrong.
| 233 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:26:09pm |
Global markets seem hesitant to react like a default is a sure thing. I mean, only wingnuts like to panic. Everyone else doesn't want to play the game where there are 10 million people and only 5 million shirts to not lose.
Dollar fell again. This mean two things:
1) Need to exchange my money for the blue bills with kids playing hockey on the back while
2) Our near-the-border Costco will be one step closer to needing its own border crossing lane. We're almost back to late 2007 exchange levels, and our county was like one giant duty-free market for a month.
| 234 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:26:43pm |
This happened yesterday, but when I saw it today I had to post it:
McCain refers to 'tea party hobbits,' blasts Bachmann-backed idea
Washington (CNN) - On the same day that House Speaker John Boehner told Republicans to "Get your asses in line" and support his debt ceiling proposal, Sen. John McCain also blasted fellow Republicans.
In a Senate floor speech laced with sarcasm and stings, the Arizona Republican aimed especially harsh fire at the tea party Wednesday.
McCain said the movement is "foolish" to think a balanced budget amendment could pass before the August 2 deadline. At one point, McCain read from an op-ed in Wednesday's Wall Street Journal. That article referred to activists as "tea party hobbits" – the little people who inhabit Middle-earth in the Lord of the Rings series.
SNIP
McCain talked about Boehner's plan and quoted the Wall St. Journal piece, which said: "The question now is whether House Republicans are going to help Mr. Boehner achieve significant progress, or in the name of the unachievable, hand Mr. Obama a victory."
McCain continued reading the article: "The idea seems to be that if the House GOP refuses to raise the debt ceiling, a default crisis or gradual government shutdown will ensue and the public will turn en masse against Barack Obama....Then Democrats would have no choice but to pass a balanced budget amendment and reform entitlements, and the tea party hobbits could return to Middle-earth...This is the kind of crack political thinking that turned Sharron Angle and Christine O'Donnell into GOP nominees. The reality is the debt limit will be raised one way or another."
| 235 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:26:47pm |
re: #232 lostlakehiker
He just came out with a statement calling for Republicans to acknowledge the reality of AGW and the fact that it's a danger. He continued by saying that conservation is conservative.
That's part of who he is. Someone who doesn't pretend like science is all wrong.
In other words, a guy who won't get out of the primaries in today's GOP.
The Republican party went off the rails. They're not going to listen to anyone saying any of these things.
| 236 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:26:49pm |
Damn, the poor have it awesome. I wish some one gave me $20k per family member. God damn poor screwing the middle class.
/
| 237 |
justaminute Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:29:03pm |
re: #227 jaunte
I'm not sure why Silver thinks Boehner would help the Democrats.
I heard that Boehner could take out the 6 month return to this mess which would take along the lines of the Reid bill. Then he would pick up all Dem votes. Then it would pass the senate. I think it is just wishful thinking. I think on the last day, at the last minute will send a simple one page to raise the debt ceiling. But it still will not be enough to stop the downgrade to our ratings.
| 238 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:29:13pm |
re: #232 lostlakehiker
He just came out with a statement calling for Republicans to acknowledge the reality of AGW and the fact that it's a danger. He continued by saying that conservation is conservative.
That's part of who he is. Someone who doesn't pretend like science is all wrong.
Well, it seems he has been positioning himself . . . not good on abortion-rights tho.
knee-jerk --I don't like him.
| 239 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:30:30pm |
re: #229 lostlakehiker
You do realize that we're spending about $20K per person on the poor, right now.
$20k per person? Fan-fucking-tastic.
Considering I'm a poor grad student who won't see any more student loans until the end of August, where do I go get the check? I could use $20k right about now.
| 240 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:30:36pm |
re: #231 JasonA
Giving money to the poor isn't the same as tossing it into a black hole. They spend it on stuff. Keeping other people in the black as they do it.
Free stuff tends to get used like it was water. If my water isn't metered, and I water my yard so heavily that it runs off into the street, the runoff isn't keeping somebody else in the black.
| 241 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:30:42pm |
| 242 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:32:22pm |
re: #229 lostlakehiker
You got a link for that figure. Is it cash/or it's equivalent? does it include medical care? Baby Formula --what?
| 243 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:32:31pm |
re: #240 lostlakehiker
Free stuff tends to get used like it was water. If my water isn't metered, and I water my yard so heavily that it runs off into the street, the runoff isn't keeping somebody else in the black.
Free stuff getting used like water still helps the economy.
People chasing in Food Stamps to buy food helps keep Grocery stores in business.
People with money to spend keeps our economy humming.
The less those near the bottom have to worry about where to find money to spend the better our economy is doing.
| 244 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:32:39pm |
re: #240 lostlakehiker
Free stuff tends to get used like it was water. If my water isn't metered, and I water my yard so heavily that it runs off into the street, the runoff isn't keeping somebody else in the black.
Spoken like someone who doesn't have money problems.
$20k right now would be a godsend. I could pay all my bills for next month, buy groceries, and put the rest in savings to get me through for as long as possible.
| 245 |
engineer cat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:34:03pm |
re: #229 lostlakehiker
You do realize that we're spending about $20K per person on the poor, right now
is this supposed to be per year?
if you say that individuals in the bottom 20% income of americans are "the poor", that's at least 60 million people
what dollar figure per year do you get when you multiply 60 million by 20 thousand? anybody?
| 246 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:34:13pm |
re: #235 Lidane
In other words, a guy who won't get out of the primaries in today's GOP.
The Republican party went off the rails. They're not going to listen to anyone saying any of these things.
Could be. But it's a start. Reagan didn't get the GOP nomination the first time he put his hat in the ring.
If the Republicans want to nominate Christine O'Donnells, they're going to get thrashed in 2012. The GOP base, by itself, cannot win a national election. It can't even come close.
| 247 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:34:36pm |
re: #240 lostlakehiker
Free stuff tends to get used like it was water. If my water isn't metered, and I water my yard so heavily that it runs off into the street, the runoff isn't keeping somebody else in the black.
Wha? If you're spending money... by definition you're giving it to someone else. Thereby helping that someone else.
Not a Keynesian, I see...
| 248 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:34:46pm |
re: #229 lostlakehiker
You do realize that we're spending about $20K per person on the poor, right now. For a family of four, that comes to more than the median family income....snip
Check your sources. "Spending" on the poor isn't delivering value to the poor. How much is spent overseeing the programs to prevent welfare Cadillacs and t-bone steaks?
| 249 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:35:17pm |
re: #229 lostlakehiker
You do realize that we're spending about $20K per person on the poor, right now. For a family of four, that comes to more than the median family income. And yet, all this spending is sacrosanct. Taxes must go up, up, and then up to cover it. And then up some more. Meanwhile, the proposed cuts are smoke and mirrors. We'll get out of Iraq. If we do. But that doesn't cut the baseline spending.
We'll cut payments to doctors for medicare and medicaid. Except we won't really, because even at the current rates, providers are losing money, and they won't be able to sustain taking the kinds of losses the proposed, lower fee schedule would impose on them.
There's been no itemized proposal from the Dems, listing what they would cut, cutting enough to matter, and cutting now rather than down the road in some future Congress, which would not in any case be bound by any such promises.
Yes, taxes must be raised. We're in too deep a hole to get out of it without extra revenue. But raising them on the top few percent alone is neither just, nor sufficient to the needs of the day. Here, Obama has half a point---we do need more revenue.
But we won't get it by taxing corporate jets.
What good has come from cutting taxes? Is the country better off? Is there less crime? Is there less violence?
Or has the difference in standard of living between the wealthiest and the middle class increased?
| 250 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:35:39pm |
re: #242 ggt
You got a link for that figure. Is it cash/or it's equivalent? does it include medical care? Baby Formula --what?
Recent Wall Street Journal editorial. This week. I don't have page numbers or issue. It includes all money spent in the name of helping the poor.
| 251 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:35:49pm |
re: #234 Dark_Falcon
I'm offended that he compared the Tea Party to hobbits
///
Seriously though, I agree with what is being said by him.
| 252 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:36:09pm |
re: #229 lostlakehiker
You do realize that we're spending about $20K per person on the poor, right now. For a family of four, that comes to more than the median family income. And yet, all this spending is sacrosanct. Taxes must go up, up, and then up to cover it. And then up some more. Meanwhile, the proposed cuts are smoke and mirrors. We'll get out of Iraq. If we do. But that doesn't cut the baseline spending.
We'll cut payments to doctors for medicare and medicaid. Except we won't really, because even at the current rates, providers are losing money, and they won't be able to sustain taking the kinds of losses the proposed, lower fee schedule would impose on them.
There's been no itemized proposal from the Dems, listing what they would cut, cutting enough to matter, and cutting now rather than down the road in some future Congress, which would not in any case be bound by any such promises.
Yes, taxes must be raised. We're in too deep a hole to get out of it without extra revenue. But raising them on the top few percent alone is neither just, nor sufficient to the needs of the day. Here, Obama has half a point---we do need more revenue.
But we won't get it by taxing corporate jets.
The biggest problem with the way our political system is set up is that politicians don't really have a vested interest in long-term plans. Only plans that can see fruition within their first term. In Asia, many countries have used 5-year plans that are part of obtaining an even bigger long-term goal and are written up by experts in the related fields instead of politicians with ideologies. In our system, its all about getting results to have something to show during your next campaign against the guy that wants to tear down what you tried building so they can start over and recreate everything how they'd like it to be.
| 253 |
jaunte Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:36:39pm |
re: #242 ggt
It appears to be from the Heritage Foundation:
[Link: www.heritage.org...]
| 254 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:36:55pm |
re: #231 JasonA
Giving money to the poor isn't the same as tossing it into a black hole. They spend it on stuff. Keeping other people in the black as they do it.
They spend everything they get.
| 255 |
engineer cat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:37:02pm |
$20K per person on the poor
or, to be blunt:
fake statistic. numbers don't add up
| 256 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:37:27pm |
re: #246 lostlakehiker
The GOP base, by itself, cannot win a national election. It can't even come close.
Tell that to the GOP. It's the base that elected the assholes that are about to lead us over the cliff into default.
They think this is a winning strategy.
| 257 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:37:41pm |
re: #253 jaunte
It appears to be from the Heritage Foundation:
[Link: www.heritage.org...]
That the same one that was mocked for noting had the poor had refrigerators? I think I saw that on Colbert.
| 258 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:38:11pm |
re: #248 Decatur Deb
Check your sources. "Spending" on the poor isn't delivering value to the poor. How much is spent overseeing the programs to prevent welfare Cadillacs and t-bone steaks?
I quite agree that the value delivered falls way short of the money spent. That's the problem. If value were delivered, the poor would live better than the middle class. Obviously, they don't.
Too-zealous oversight seems unlikely to be the explanation. Do we really have such hordes of drones, checking each other's figures three times with pencil and paper arithmetic? No.
| 259 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:38:29pm |
re: #250 lostlakehiker
Recent Wall Street Journal editorial. This week. I don't have page numbers or issue. It includes all money spent in the name of helping the poor.
I would really like to see the breakdown of that figure. If you are including rent & untility subsidies, baby formula, school lunch programs --that is money that is going into the economy and not directly to the poor citizen.
It's not like the individual is getting a monthly check and spending it meth.
If it also includes taxes they are not paying . . . .
| 260 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:38:41pm |
re: #253 jaunte
It appears to be from the Heritage Foundation:
[Link: www.heritage.org...]
You've got to be fucking kidding me. That's the source for the $20k per person?
FAIL.
| 261 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:39:28pm |
re: #250 lostlakehiker
The same Wall Street Journal that said the terror attack in Norway was a false flag.
You make me sick. "Metering" aid to the poor, when the poverty rate is now around 20%? And you think that cutting food stamps and letting people starve is a good thing.
Your ideas are the reason that Conservatism is so unpopular among my generation. We have compassion you clearly don't. We have morality. Your side more resembles Sodom and Gomorrah, which decided to be avaricious and greedy, earning them hellfire.
| 262 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:40:38pm |
re: #253 jaunte
It appears to be from the Heritage Foundation:
[Link: www.heritage.org...]
Ah, good ol' Heritage, the one that said that the Ryan Plan would see unemployment not witnessed since the Korean War and economic growth that was in excess of virtually anything seen in decades.
Why wouldn't anybody believe them?
| 263 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:41:00pm |
re: #256 Lidane
Tell that to the GOP. It's the base that elected the assholes that are about to lead us over the cliff into default.
They think this is a winning strategy.
It wasn't the base. It was swing voters, upset about the deficit. They can swing back, and if the current GOP House drives us over the cliff, they will.
The base is delusional, drunk on the feeling of power that came with the 2010 gains. It/they forget that those gains fell short of what they might have been had it not been for arrogant in-your-face nominations like O'Donnell and Angle.
| 264 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:41:18pm |
re: #240 lostlakehiker
Free stuff tends to get used like it was water. If my water isn't metered, and I water my yard so heavily that it runs off into the street, the runoff isn't keeping somebody else in the black.
That is the most meaningless analogy I've seen.
| 265 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:42:21pm |
re: #258 lostlakehiker
I quite agree that the value delivered falls way short of the money spent. That's the problem. If value were delivered, the poor would live better than the middle class. Obviously, they don't.
Too-zealous oversight seems unlikely to be the explanation. Do we really have such hordes of drones, checking each other's figures three times with pencil and paper arithmetic? No.
"Hordes"might be an exaggeration. We have a lot, because of the class warfare waged against the poor by the TP types. So a lot of the cash is immediately recycled back into the middle-class Poverty Industry.
| 266 |
engineer cat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:42:53pm |
this reminds me of the gazillion dollar figures mooted about for the so-called "unfunded liabilities" owed because of medicare, medicaid, and social security. the thing is, if you quote such a figure, you need to give a time frame - usually lacking
one correspondent of mine who was waxing wroth on the subject finally came up with a time frame for his estimate of these "unfunded liabilities":
100 years
| 267 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:43:09pm |
Hmmm. Looking at that Heritage "paper" I see this:
The overwhelming majority of the poor have air conditioning, cable TV, and a host of other modern amenities.
Air conditioning? That's not a "luxury" in many places in this country. If it gets anywhere near 90 or above it can not only slow down productivity but it is also a health hazard not to have air condition or a similar cooling appliance. I would even venture to guess that air condition can help reduce crime by keeping people "cool" (in more ways than one) and indoors during oppressively hot summer days.
| 268 |
justaminute Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:43:23pm |
The Republicans only have one stance. When you have budget surpluses you cut taxes. When you have budget deficits you cut taxes. Who said governing is hard./
| 269 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:45:01pm |
re: #267 Gus 802
Air conditioning? That's not a "luxury" in many places in this country.
We've had almost seven straight weeks of 100+ degree heat. Without AC, that would be even more intolerable.
Anyone who thinks AC is a luxury can fuck right off.
| 270 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:45:23pm |
re: #267 Gus 802
Hmmm. Looking at that Heritage "paper" I see this:
Air conditioning? That's not a "luxury" in many places in this country. If it gets anywhere near 90 or above it can not only slow down productivity but it is also a health hazard not to have air condition or a similar cooling appliance. I would even venture to guess that air condition can help reduce crime by keeping people "cool" (in more ways than one) and indoors during oppressively hot summer days.
Dude, they're rolling in so much green that these parasites have refrigerators!
| 271 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:45:54pm |
re: #253 jaunte
It appears to be from the Heritage Foundation:
[Link: www.heritage.org...]
Help me out here, I read the thru the article, but didn't see the 20K expenditure mentioned or broken-down. I saw a big complaint against how the Census Bureau defines "poor" and the Obama administration is using the information. not that that isn't an issue all in itself worth discussing, it doesn't show how our entitlement money is distributed.
| 272 |
jaunte Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:46:04pm |
re: #267 Gus 802
I see some evidence in that study of the thinking that designates poverty a sin, and so justifies the suffering of the evildoers.
| 273 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:46:06pm |
re: #261 ProLifeLiberal
The same Wall Street Journal that said the terror attack in Norway was a false flag.
You make me sick. "Metering" aid to the poor, when the poverty rate is now around 20%? And you think that cutting food stamps and letting people starve is a good thing.
Your ideas are the reason that Conservatism is so unpopular among my generation. We have compassion you clearly don't. We have morality. Your side more resembles Sodom and Gomorrah, which decided to be avaricious and greedy, earning them hellfire.
Aw, shucks. You have me wrong. I WANT the lives of the poor to be better. I just don't see the current programs being an effective way to achieve that end.
As to people starving, have you looked around? Obesity is by far the biggest, fattest nutrition problem today, and the poor are just as deeply involved as the middle class.
Food stamps are not currently insufficient to sustain a healthy weight and activity level.
Compassion without calculation feels good but it doesn't get results. If you don't care about the results, though, not enough to think about matching means to ends and making it HAPPEN, what is that compassion good for?
| 274 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:46:31pm |
re: #267 Gus 802
Hmmm. Looking at that Heritage "paper" I see this:
Air conditioning? That's not a "luxury" in many places in this country. If it gets anywhere near 90 or above it can not only slow down productivity but it is also a health hazard not to have air condition or a similar cooling appliance. I would even venture to guess that air condition can help reduce crime by keeping people "cool" (in more ways than one) and indoors during oppressively hot summer days.
Habitat for Humanity HQ has had an internal struggle with local affiliates, including ours, for installing central air. If the result is to sell a guy a house he can never resell, we would hardly be doing any anything to help the family out of poverty..
| 275 |
engineer cat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:46:50pm |
re: #259 ggt
I would really like to see the breakdown of that figure. If you are including rent & untility subsidies, baby formula, school lunch programs --that is money that is going into the economy and not directly to the poor citizen.
It's not like the individual is getting a monthly check and spending it meth.
If it also includes taxes they are not paying . . .
in addition, any money handed out to poor people goes right back into the american economy
the poor don't have swiss bank accounts or expensive tastes in european automobiles
| 276 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:47:02pm |
re: #267 Gus 802
The overwhelming majority of the poor have air conditioning, cable TV, and a host of other modern amenities.
Great Gravel's Dust!!! I'm worse off than the majority of the poor. Who knew?
| 277 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:47:15pm |
re: #261 ProLifeLiberal
It's actually the WSJ that delivered the stinging editorial against the Tea Party.
And why is metering and controlling spending evil? Money is tight and the government needs to be frugal. LLH and the Journal are just talking about practical ways to do that.
| 278 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:48:41pm |
re: #277 Dark_Falcon
It's actually the WSJ that delivered the stinging editorial against the Tea Party.
And why is metering and controlling spending evil? Money is tight and the government needs to be frugal. LLH and the Journal are just talking about practical ways to do that.
I've got an even simpler, more practical way to save money-- END THE TWO WARS WE'RE FIGHTING. Also, let the Bush tax cuts lapse, since cutting taxes during two wars was stupid.
| 279 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:48:49pm |
re: #266 engineer dog
this reminds me of the gazillion dollar figures mooted about for the so-called "unfunded liabilities" owed because of medicare, medicaid, and social security. the thing is, if you quote such a figure, you need to give a time frame - usually lacking
one correspondent of mine who was waxing wroth on the subject finally came up with a time frame for his estimate of these "unfunded liabilities":
100 years
An unfunded liability is the net present value, taking into account your discount rate whatever it is, of all your promises, to people now living, that you don't have an income stream dedicated to covering.
So 100 years is high, but 50 years would be reasonable.
| 280 |
jaunte Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:49:27pm |
re: #271 ggt
Not sure who did the calculation; it may have been the WSJ. It's certainly a popular phrase: (5,740,000 results) [Link: www.google.com...]
| 281 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:50:37pm |
re: #253 jaunte
It appears to be from the Heritage Foundation:
[Link: www.heritage.org...]
"As scholar James Q. Wilson has stated, “The poorest Americans today live a better life than all but the richest persons a hundred years ago.”[3] In 2005, the typical household defined as poor by the government had a car and air conditioning. For entertainment, the household had two color televisions, cable or satellite TV, a DVD player, and a VCR. If there were children, especially boys, in the home, the family had a game system, such as an Xbox or a PlayStation.[4] In the kitchen, the household had a refrigerator, an oven and stove, and a microwave. Other household conveniences included a clothes washer, clothes dryer, ceiling fans, a cordless phone, and a coffee maker."
So instead of comparing the poor's standard of living to everyone else in the country they compare it to some 'idealized' version of poor or to conditions of 100 years ago.
And they do it by referring to some questionable authority.
What a pile of crap.
| 282 |
jaunte Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:51:25pm |
re: #281 b_sharp
I'm sure their sons are happily playing with hoops and sticks outside.
| 284 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:51:54pm |
Lidane, I think they don't like you very much.
Conservatives angry over Pell Grant funding in Boehner debt bill
House conservatives who have stalled legislation to raise the national debt limit are angry that it includes $17 billion in supplemental spending for Pell Grants, which some compare to welfare.
Legislation crafted by House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) to raise the debt limit by $900 billion would directly appropriate $9 billion for Pell Grants in 2012 and another $8 billion in 2013.
| 285 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:52:04pm |
re: #257 JasonA
That the same one that was mocked for noting had the poor had refrigerators? I think I saw that on Colbert.
Yup.
Real working refrigerators.
| 286 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:52:05pm |
re: #278 Lidane
I've got an even simpler, more practical way to save money-- END THE TWO WARS WE'RE FIGHTING. Also, let the Bush tax cuts lapse, since cutting taxes during two wars was stupid.
You'd think that would be easy to understand by now. But no, we're told that ending war spending is a "gimmick," while you simply "can't" raise taxes during a recession, because it "hurts" businesses and discourages investment.
So, the solution? Why, we have to engage in "reform" of social spending, which generally is translated as partial or total privatization of those programs, passing off the costs to the the people who rely upon those programs and getting shittier service in return.
| 287 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:52:08pm |
re: #273 lostlakehiker
Aw, shucks. You have me wrong. I WANT the lives of the poor to be better. I just don't see the current programs being an effective way to achieve that end.
As to people starving, have you looked around? Obesity is by far the biggest, fattest nutrition problem today, and the poor are just as deeply involved as the middle class.
Food stamps are not currently insufficient to sustain a healthy weight and activity level.
Compassion without calculation feels good but it doesn't get results. If you don't care about the results, though, not enough to think about matching means to ends and making it HAPPEN, what is that compassion good for?
Reducing the amount of money people have to spend on food won't make them buy healthier things to eat.
Nor will it help the economy.
I'm sure your desire to reduce Americas debt comes from a well meaning place, but compassion without calculation feels good but it doesn't get results. If you don't care about the results, though, not enough to think about matching means to ends and making it HAPPEN, what is that compassion good for?
| 288 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:53:25pm |
re: #281 b_sharp
100 years ago, the rich could get away with beating the servants. Think about how much they had to give up!
THINK OF THE RICH!
| 289 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:53:34pm |
re: #277 Dark_Falcon
It's actually the WSJ that delivered the stinging editorial against the Tea Party.
And why is metering and controlling spending evil? Money is tight and the government needs to be frugal. LLH and the Journal are just talking about practical ways to do that.
Money's not tight for defense. Nice to have heard R's talking sense about the wars they clamored for and questioned people' patriotism to get.
| 290 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:53:56pm |
re: #277 Dark_Falcon
It's actually the WSJ that delivered the stinging editorial against the Tea Party.
And why is metering and controlling spending evil? Money is tight and the government needs to be frugal. LLH and the Journal are just talking about practical ways to do that.
Dark money is not tonight.
America still has a triple AAA rating.
There is no lack of people willing to lend to us.
America is not Greece.
If it weren't for the debt ceiling America would be doing fine economically when it came to our debt.
Its the unemployment that we have a problem with and you don't solve that problem by reducing Government spending.
| 291 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:54:00pm |
re: #274 Decatur Deb
Habitat for Humanity HQ has had an internal struggle with local affiliates, including ours, for installing central air. If the result is to sell a guy a house he can never resell, we would hardly be doing any anything to help the family out of poverty..
But again, does it actually serve any sensible purpose to set things up so that it is rational for the poor to AC to 70 in the summer, while the middle class looks at its power bills and sets it at 80? Because with unmetered power, why not? I'm not saying that the poor always get unmetered power. I'm just pointing out that metering resources helps allocate them rationally.
The economy is not improved by that kind of allocation of kwH's.
I'm cool with the poor getting central air. Not that I had it when I was a young parent. Or when I was a young child. But---they, too, should use it sparingly, as I have always done when I did have it.
| 292 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:54:05pm |
re: #269 Lidane
We've had almost seven straight weeks of 100+ degree heat. Without AC, that would be even more intolerable.
Anyone who thinks AC is a luxury can fuck right off.
Definitely. I was in an apartment once waiting for them to fix the window AC for almost a month. One of the worst months of my life. This was also in the same building that allowed Section 8 people to live there. I wasn't Section 8. Anyway, I'd like to see these butterball asses live in or around Section 8 some times in their lives. You're probably familiar with this but that also includes living around not only impoverished people but a lot of criminals sometimes as well. Guess they forgot about that part. How being poor exposes you almost daily to crime. Yeah, such luxury.
Sure, poverty in the USA is not like it is in Calcutta. But that's almost besides the point. It's relative. Poverty in the USA is probably a luxury to most people in Calcutta. But we're not Calcutta either and one of the goals in this American life is to help others rise above a bar which is pretty damn high in this country. Including the number one GDP in the world. So AC shouldn't even be an issue at all. Those people need the AC as does everyone else. And again, I'd like to see those doughy pantloads live either in or around Section 8 housing.
| 293 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:54:21pm |
re: #284 JasonA
Lidane, I think they don't like you very much.
Conservatives angry over Pell Grant funding in Boehner debt bill
I don't get Pell Grants. I get Stafford and Direct PLUS loans.
| 294 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:55:03pm |
re: #263 lostlakehiker
It wasn't the base. It was swing voters, upset about the deficit. They can swing back, and if the current GOP House drives us over the cliff, they will.
The base is delusional, drunk on the feeling of power that came with the 2010 gains. It/they forget that those gains fell short of what they might have been had it not been for arrogant in-your-face nominations like O'Donnell and Angle.
Concur. The Tea Party needs to learn its lesson about what support it really commands, and as John McCain would note, now is the time it must be taught. That's actually why I posted that "Tea Party Hobbits" article. The other reason is that it was interesting to see John McCain as he really is. He wears masks at times, but when he gets mad like that you see the ferocity and dedication that are the hallmarks of his family.
| 295 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:55:21pm |
re: #277 Dark_Falcon
Only after it became apparent that the Tea Partiers were willing to usher a financial apocalypse for their dumb-as-shit ideology.
After the past 11 years of conservative ideology, I've learned that it is best to assume the worst out of the other side and be pleasantly surprised if they are better than worst.
The Democrats have been to kind to the Republicans, as I am now hearing some Norwegians saying. Time to ante up the rhetoric, and be willing to use religious examples.
Besides, the conservatives have been less willing to help those in need, a universal teaching among all religions. Time for the Democrats to use this.
| 296 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:55:33pm |
re: #262 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Ah, good ol' Heritage, the one that said that the Ryan Plan would see unemployment not witnessed since the Korean War and economic growth that was in excess of virtually anything seen in decades.
Why wouldn't anybody believe them?
Lack of confirmation bias.
| 297 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:55:33pm |
re: #291 lostlakehiker
But again, does it actually serve any sensible purpose to set things up so that it is rational for the poor to AC to 70 in the summer, while the middle class looks at its power bills and sets it at 80? Because with unmetered power, why not? I'm not saying that the poor always get unmetered power. I'm just pointing out that metering resources helps allocate them rationally.
The economy is not improved by that kind of allocation of kwH's.
I'm cool with the poor getting central air. Not that I had it when I was a young parent. Or when I was a young child. But---they, too, should use it sparingly, as I have always done when I did have it.
Pfft. If they even have AC. That's a load of crap and you know it. If they do have AC it's broken down. You ever heard of slum lords? Well that's real.
| 298 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:55:43pm |
re: #229 lostlakehiker
You do realize that we're spending about $20K per person on the poor, right now. For a family of four, that comes to more than the median family income.
Where do you even get numbers like that? It's all, suspiciously Wetzel's Pretzels in shape.
Here are some of my numbers: Let's assume by "poor people" you meant "those in poverty"
Census Bureau says there are 42.9 million people living in poverty. According to this, also by the Census, poverty is income below $11,344 (and marginally higher per additional family member), so these are very poor people.
Now, you say we spend $20k per person? Why, that's $858 billion per year. That's larger than the DoD budget. Bigger than Social Security. Bigger than Medicare and Medicaid put together. And all of those aren't just programs that are for "the poor". Middle class people and up use them as well. So what's this about $20,000?
You sir, have delivered us a pretzel. And not a delicious one, either.
| 299 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:56:24pm |
re: #292 Gus 802
Definitely. I was in an apartment once waiting for them to fix the window AC for almost a month. One of the worst months of my life. This was also in the same building that allowed Section 8 people to live there. I wasn't Section 8. Anyway, I'd like to see these butterball asses live in or around Section 8 some times in their lives. You're probably familiar with this but that also includes living around not only impoverished people but a lot of criminals sometimes as well. Guess they forgot about that part. How being poor exposes you almost daily to crime. Yeah, such luxury.
Sure, poverty in the USA is not like it is in Calcutta. But that's almost besides the point. It's relative. Poverty in the USA is probably a luxury to most people in Calcutta. But we're not Calcutta either and one of the goals in this American life is to help others rise above a bar which is pretty damn high in this country. Including the number one GDP in the world. So AC shouldn't even be an issue at all. Those people need the AC as does everyone else. And again, I'd like to see those doughy pantloads live either in or around Section 8 housing.
See Relative Deprivation Theory
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 300 |
Interesting Times Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:56:30pm |
re: #273 lostlakehiker
As to people starving, have you looked around? Obesity is by far the biggest, fattest nutrition problem today, and the poor are just as deeply involved as the middle class.
Food stamps are not currently insufficient to sustain a healthy weight and activity level.
Sorry, but you could not be more wrong about this. It's entirely possible to be overweight but malnourished, thanks to the high-fructose corn syrup crap being marketed as acceptable food products. Are you aware how expensive healthy food is, especially for those on tight budgets? And that many people in poor neighborhoods are trapped in "food deserts", where (through lack of private vehicles and public transit) they can't even get to a grocery store and have access to things like fresh produce? The only food that's accessible and affordable for them is the absolute worst from a health perspective.
I suggest you play this interactive game on what it's really like to be poor, before falling for the AGW-denying heritage foundation's ridiculous blather on the subject.
| 301 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:56:40pm |
re: #275 engineer dog
in addition, any money handed out to poor people goes right back into the american economy
the poor don't have swiss bank accounts or expensive tastes in european automobiles
I've ranted plenty about how OUR MONEY is used by the "poor". I don't think it should be spent on coke and pork rinds, which it is. These UPC's are allowed (at least in Illinois). Big Corporate lobbyists make sure of it --which it turn ensures employment for those working for the corporation.
It doesn't help the obesity issue, the medical care costs issue or the ignorance of the "poor" buyers.
I don't have a problem with some things, like candy at Halloween or Easter, but NOT ALL YEAR.
I'm not going to rant on this all night. I'm too tired.
I see a lot of WIC checks and LINK cards in my job and the people that use them. I would love it most of them spoke English. I would love it if most of them were married and over 18. I would love it most of the people using them actually understood it was MY MONEY they were spending.
I don't want babies and children to go without the food they need. I just wish the people who brought these kids into the world thought about it first. Not all are "users". I also see a lot of two parent working families that seriously need the help. I see single mothers who work full-time who do need the help. In the area in which we live, the RENT is TOO DAMN HIGH, public transportion isn't what it is in the city and the price of gas cuts into every budget.
Ok, rant off. I'm done.
| 302 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:57:42pm |
re: #280 jaunte
Not sure who did the calculation; it may have been the WSJ. It's certainly a popular phrase: (5,740,000 results) [Link: www.google.com...]
If you hear it often enough, it becomes true?
| 303 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:58:13pm |
re: #229 lostlakehiker
You do realize that we're spending about $20K per person on the poor, right now. For a family of four, that comes to more than the median family income. And yet, all this spending is sacrosanct. Taxes must go up, up, and then up to cover it. And then up some more. Meanwhile, the proposed cuts are smoke and mirrors. We'll get out of Iraq. If we do. But that doesn't cut the baseline spending.
We'll cut payments to doctors for medicare and medicaid. Except we won't really, because even at the current rates, providers are losing money, and they won't be able to sustain taking the kinds of losses the proposed, lower fee schedule would impose on them.
There's been no itemized proposal from the Dems, listing what they would cut, cutting enough to matter, and cutting now rather than down the road in some future Congress, which would not in any case be bound by any such promises.
Yes, taxes must be raised. We're in too deep a hole to get out of it without extra revenue. But raising them on the top few percent alone is neither just, nor sufficient to the needs of the day. Here, Obama has half a point---we do need more revenue.
But we won't get it by taxing corporate jets.
We are? $20,000 on each poor person? Does that mean that every poor family of four of n*****s, spics, and crackers is getting $80,000 of government support a year? Wow. That's just ridiculous! Do we really pay out that much in WIC, CHIP, food stamps, and Medicare for poor families every year?
///
I'll let the experts target this bullshit R talking point.
| 304 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:58:17pm |
re: #291 lostlakehiker
But again, does it actually serve any sensible purpose to set things up so that it is rational for the poor to AC to 70 in the summer, while the middle class looks at its power bills and sets it at 80? Because with unmetered power, why not? I'm not saying that the poor always get unmetered power. I'm just pointing out that metering resources helps allocate them rationally.
Do the poor get unmetered power at all?
| 305 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:58:29pm |
re: #269 Lidane
Anyone who thinks AC is a luxury can fuck right off.
Word up from the Central Valley, baby. That shit saves lives.
| 306 |
engineer cat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:58:34pm |
re: #277 Dark_Falcon
It's actually the WSJ that delivered the stinging editorial against the Tea Party.
And why is metering and controlling spending evil? Money is tight and the government needs to be frugal. LLH and the Journal are just talking about practical ways to do that.
because republicans seem to always choose the most damaging ways to cut spending
| 308 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:59:19pm |
re: #285 b_sharp
Yup.
Real working refrigerators.
Well, I remember watching b&w Lassie episodes in which the Mom had an "ice box". I've your living in the 1950's, a real refrigerator might be a standard of affluence.
| 309 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:59:32pm |
re: #297 Gus 802
Pfft. If they even have AC. That's a load of crap and you know it. If they do have AC it's broken down. You ever heard of slum lords? Well that's real.
So what you're saying is that section 8 housing, and other welfare housing, doesn't actually deliver AC? I can believe it. That makes my point, though. Money being spent in the name of the poor isn't getting the results that were contracted for.
Poor people who rent outside the welfare system, including the near poor, stand a real chance of getting what they pay for. If the AC breaks, odds are the landlord gets it fixed within a couple of days. The invisible hand sees to that.
| 310 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 8:59:52pm |
re: #291 lostlakehiker
But again, does it actually serve any sensible purpose to set things up so that it is rational for the poor to AC to 70 in the summer, while the middle class looks at its power bills and sets it at 80?
And another thing. If in this imaginary world the "poor" are keep their AC st to 70 while the middle class has it set to 80 there's a big difference here. For one, the poor are living inside a small Section 8 two bedroom apartment with probably one stupid AC unit (if they're lucky). The middle class are ACing a rather large 3 bedroom suburban home. Apples and oranges here.
| 311 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:00:57pm |
re: #278 Lidane
We're only actually fighting one war right now. And that one will end when its objectives are met. We can't just "end it" without dire consequences.
| 312 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:01:32pm |
re: #263 lostlakehiker
It wasn't the base. It was swing voters, upset about the deficit. They can swing back, and if the current GOP House drives us over the cliff, they will.
The base is delusional, drunk on the feeling of power that came with the 2010 gains. It/they forget that those gains fell short of what they might have been had it not been for arrogant in-your-face nominations like O'Donnell and Angle.
And fuck those swing voters for it.
Swing voters=Ignorant motherfuckers who don't pay attention. Anyone paying attention knew the GOP would act this way, they had been signaling it since Obama was elected and are mostly responsible for the deficit with all they did between 2000-2006 in the first place. People paying attention either voted for the GOP because they agreed with their ignorant obstructionism and rigid ideology or voted against them because they didn't. The "swing voters" didn't have a clue. If they insist on going into elections blind, deaf and dumb, they should do us all a favor and stay the fuck home on election day. They actually top the TP/GOP on my shit list. Fuck the swing voters because they have royally fucked us by giving these nihilistic anarchists the keys back after all the damage they did just a few short years ago.
| 313 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:02:09pm |
re: #297 Gus 802
Pfft. If they even have AC.
We have designated cooling centers in our area that open up after the temps reach a certain point for those who have no AC. Waste of money, if you ask me. Fuck the poor.
/
| 314 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:02:14pm |
re: #311 Dark_Falcon
We're only actually fighting one war right now. And that one will end when its objectives are met. We can't just "end it" without dire consequences.
We just can't stop paying our bills without dire consequences, but it doesn't seem to be stopping us...
| 315 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:02:24pm |
re: #309 lostlakehiker
So what you're saying is that section 8 housing, and other welfare housing, doesn't actually deliver AC? I can believe it. That makes my point, though. Money being spent in the name of the poor isn't getting the results that were contracted for.
Poor people who rent outside the welfare system, including the near poor, stand a real chance of getting what they pay for. If the AC breaks, odds are the landlord gets it fixed within a couple of days. The invisible hand sees to that.
"The Invisible Hand sees to that?"
Why?
Because the poor will move to someplace else if the AC is broken?
I'm sure being poor they have a lot of free time to go searching for a new apartment to rent, or who knows maybe their just unemployed in which case I bet the lucky dogs have all the time in the world to go shopping for a new place to live with the money they don't have.....
I am dubious of trusting things I can't see and that includes the invisible hand of the market.
| 316 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:02:45pm |
re: #300 publicityStunted
Sorry, but you could not be more wrong about this. It's entirely possible to be overweight but malnourished, thanks to the high-fructose corn syrup crap being marketed as acceptable food products. Are you aware how expensive healthy food is, especially for those on tight budgets? And that many people in poor neighborhoods are trapped in "food deserts", where (through lack of private vehicles and public transit) they can't even get to a grocery store and have access to things like fresh produce? The only food that's accessible and affordable for them is the absolute worst from a health perspective.
I suggest you play this interactive game on what it's really like to be poor, before falling for the AGW-denying heritage foundation's ridiculous blather on the subject.
I saw that game. It's rigged. If I make the prudent choice, it breaks my car for me and makes my dog get sick and if that doesn't suffice it just breaks my leg or something.
I see the lives of the people you're talking about. The ones I know DO have access to good food. There are grocery stores within a convenient radius. Many DO eat healthy food; it doesn't bust the budget to eat chicken, rice, pasta, cabbage, and some other fruits and veggies.
With any sort of luck, they manage quite competently and improve their lives year over year.
| 317 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:02:55pm |
re: #267 Gus 802
Hmmm. Looking at that Heritage "paper" I see this:
Air conditioning? That's not a "luxury" in many places in this country. If it gets anywhere near 90 or above it can not only slow down productivity but it is also a health hazard not to have air condition or a similar cooling appliance. I would even venture to guess that air condition can help reduce crime by keeping people "cool" (in more ways than one) and indoors during oppressively hot summer days.
"Are there no prisons? Are there no work houses?"
//
| 318 |
engineer cat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:03:00pm |
re: #301 ggt
I've ranted plenty about how OUR MONEY is used by the "poor". I don't think it should be spent on coke and pork rinds, which it is. These UPC's are allowed (at least in Illinois). Big Corporate lobbyists make sure of it --which it turn ensures employment for those working for the corporation.
It doesn't help the obesity issue, the medical care costs issue or the ignorance of the "poor" buyers.
I don't have a problem with some things, like candy at Halloween or Easter, but NOT ALL YEAR.
I'm not going to rant on this all night. I'm too tired.
I see a lot of WIC checks and LINK cards in my job and the people that use them. I would love it most of them spoke English. I would love it if most of them were married and over 18. I would love it most of the people using them actually understood it was MY MONEY they were spending.
I don't want babies and children to go without the food they need. I just wish the people who brought these kids into the world thought about it first. Not all are "users". I also see a lot of two parent working families that seriously need the help. I see single mothers who work full-time who do need the help. In the area in which we live, the RENT is TOO DAMN HIGH, public transportion isn't what it is in the city and the price of gas cuts into every budget.
Ok, rant off. I'm done.
it's not just that we're giving them money
in return, they are washing our dishes, picking up our garbage, cleaning our houses, knackering our cow carcasses, and raising children who are the most likely to go into the New All Volunteer Army and get wounded and killed - all for wages that most of us would turn up our noses at
i know a lot of tax money gets wasted. large organizations always end up spending a lot of money that gets wasted
| 319 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:03:19pm |
re: #311 Dark_Falcon
We're only actually fighting one war right now. And that one will end when its objectives are met. We can't just "end it" without dire consequences.
Last I checked, we're still in Iraq and Afghanistan. Ergo, two wars.
End those, let the Bush tax cuts lapse, and then maybe we'll start getting back to whatever normal is. Cutting taxes during two wars was mind-numbingly stupid.
| 320 |
freetoken Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:03:36pm |
re: #315 jamesfirecat
Many people get a rude slap from the back of that "invisible hand".
| 321 |
jaunte Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:03:51pm |
re: #278 Lidane
Bush Tax Cuts, War Costs Do Lasting Harm to Budget Outlook:
Some critics continue to assert that President George W. Bush’s policies bear little responsibility for the deficits the nation faces over the coming decade — that, instead, the new policies of President Barack Obama and the 111th Congress are to blame. Most recently, a Heritage Foundation paper downplayed the role of Bush-era policies (for more on that paper, see p. 4). Nevertheless, the fact remains: Together with the economic downturn, the Bush tax cuts and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq explain virtually the entire deficit over the next ten years. [Link: www.cbpp.org...]
| 322 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:04:09pm |
re: #315 jamesfirecat
"The Invisible Hand sees to that?"
Why?
Because the poor will move to someplace else if the AC is broken?
I'm sure being poor they have a lot of free time to go searching for a new apartment to rent, or who knows maybe their just unemployed in which case I bet the lucky dogs have all the time in the world to go shopping for a new place to live with the money they don't have...
I am dubious of trusting things I can't see and that includes the invisible hand of the market.
If the tenant moves out because the place is not up to code, the landlord loses money. It's that simple.
A sensible landlord keeps the place in shape. Less turnover, no lawsuit hassles, everybody's happy.
| 323 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:04:10pm |
re: #309 lostlakehiker
So what you're saying is that section 8 housing, and other welfare housing, doesn't actually deliver AC? I can believe it. That makes my point, though. Money being spent in the name of the poor isn't getting the results that were contracted for.
Poor people who rent outside the welfare system, including the near poor, stand a real chance of getting what they pay for. If the AC breaks, odds are the landlord gets it fixed within a couple of days. The invisible hand sees to that.
Have you ever been poor? Your views chafe me worse than sandpaper-based bike shorts probably would. there is not a magical dividing line of quality between section 8 housing and "outside the welfare system" housing that poor people can afford.
| 324 |
alpuz Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:04:50pm |
"Poor people who rent outside the welfare system, including the near poor, stand a real chance of getting what they pay for. If the AC breaks, odds are the landlord gets it fixed within a couple of days. The invisible hand sees to that."
Horseshit... been close to there, never seen that. It must have been my "invisible hands" that went out and "gets it fixed."
| 325 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:05:26pm |
re: #312 moderatelyradicalliberal
And fuck those swing voters for it.
Swing voters=Ignorant motherfuckers who don't pay attention. Anyone paying attention knew the GOP would act this way, they had been signaling it since Obama was elected and are mostly responsible for the deficit with all they did between 2000-2006 in the first place. People paying attention either voted for the GOP because they agreed with their ignorant obstructionism and rigid ideology or voted against them because they didn't. The "swing voters" didn't have a clue. If they insist on going into elections blind, deaf and dumb, they should do us all a favor and stay the fuck home on election day. They actually top the TP/GOP on my shit list. Fuck the swing voters because they have royally fucked us by giving these nihilistic anarchists the keys back after all the damage they did just a few short years ago.
Save room on your shitlist for the 60% or so who didn't vote at all in the 2010 election.
| 326 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:05:37pm |
re: #322 lostlakehiker
If the tenant moves out because the place is not up to code, the landlord loses money. It's that simple..
Because poor people can pay all the fines and extra money that comes with breaking a lease. AND they can pay deposits and moving expenses to go from a shithole to a better building with a "sensible landlord".
Really.
| 327 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:05:40pm |
re: #309 lostlakehiker
So what you're saying is that section 8 housing, and other welfare housing, doesn't actually deliver AC? I can believe it. That makes my point, though. Money being spent in the name of the poor isn't getting the results that were contracted for.
Poor people who rent outside the welfare system, including the near poor, stand a real chance of getting what they pay for. If the AC breaks, odds are the landlord gets it fixed within a couple of days. The invisible hand sees to that.
The invisible hand is called not getting any equity. The invisible hand also gets a write off for the AC repair and/or replacement.
You honestly make it sound easy to get "free" housing too. It's not easy at all. In some places there are long waiting lists. A lot of people wind up in shelters. Did you forget that part? People go from having a home or apartment and are suddenly out on the street and have to live in shelter for months before they can get this imaginary "free" housing. Then, they finally get Section 8 and you're attached to a social worker looking over every single aspect of your life. Then! In many cases they only pay for half of the rent. Finally, you get to live around parolees, gang bangers, gang members, and yes some downright nice people. Oh, and good luck getting any fitful sleep at night. Those kinds of place sometimes never sleeps.
| 328 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:05:55pm |
re: #309 lostlakehiker
Bullshit on your "invisible hand!" Because of it, wages have been stagnant for thirty years, an entire reigon is hollowed out, and we have the highest poverty rate in the 1st world, along with medical costs so high, that a massive chunk of the population can't get it.
Shove your "invisible hand." Your economic policies have failed. Time for something different.
| 329 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:06:54pm |
re: #323 Spocomptonite
Have you ever been poor? Your views chafe me worse than sandpaper-based bike shorts probably would. there is not a magical dividing line of quality between section 8 housing and "outside the welfare system" housing that poor people can afford.
Yes, if by poor, you mean living on a lot less than what you now say is necessary. And my landlords didn't cheat me.
| 330 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:06:54pm |
re: #319 Lidane
We're in Iraq, but we're hardly doing any fighting. After the end of this year, the most we'll have there is a 10,000 person training force. And we can afford that expenditure, especially since it keeps Iran for attempting an overt power play.
| 331 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:07:02pm |
re: #291 lostlakehiker
But again, does it actually serve any sensible purpose to set things up so that it is rational for the poor to AC to 70 in the summer, while the middle class looks at its power bills and sets it at 80? Because with unmetered power, why not? I'm not saying that the poor always get unmetered power. I'm just pointing out that metering resources helps allocate them rationally.
The economy is not improved by that kind of allocation of kwH's.
I'm cool with the poor getting central air. Not that I had it when I was a young parent. Or when I was a young child. But---they, too, should use it sparingly, as I have always done when I did have it.
Show your numbers.
| 333 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:07:18pm |
re: #301 ggt
I've ranted plenty about how OUR MONEY is used by the "poor". I don't think it should be spent on coke and pork rinds, which it is.
Ain't that a bitch? You can buy soda pop and junk food with food stamps, but you can't buy toilet paper and tooth paste with 'em.
And I understand that both TPs are not "food", but they are certainly more necessary to a person's general health than coke and pork rinds.
| 334 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:07:20pm |
re: #321 jaunte
EXACTLY. Two wars and cutting taxes during those two wars = a massive deficit.
I don't understand how people can't see that.
| 335 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:07:39pm |
re: #326 Lidane
Because poor people can pay all the fines and extra money that comes with breaking a lease. AND they can pay deposits and moving expenses to go from a shithole to a better building with a "sensible landlord".
Really.
I know when I was growing up on USDA-provided food for awhile, my family had a crack legal defense team at our disposal to make sure shit got done nobody took advantage of us because they could.
/
| 336 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:08:12pm |
re: #327 Gus 802
Make that restful sleep. So yeah. Make sure you wear ear plugs.
| 337 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:08:22pm |
re: #330 Dark_Falcon
We're in Iraq, but we're hardly doing any fighting. After the end of this year, the most we'll have there is a 10,000 person training force. And we can afford that expenditure, especially since it keeps Iran for attempting an overt power play.
Dark the issue is not that we're doing fighting in Iraq, the issue is that we'red doing Spending in/on Iraq.
| 338 |
engineer cat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:08:30pm |
re: #334 Lidane
EXACTLY. Two wars and cutting taxes during those two wars = a massive deficit.
I don't understand how people can't see that.
bush drug benefit that mandates that the government May Not negotiate the price of the drugs that it buys
| 339 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:08:56pm |
re: #326 Lidane
Because poor people can pay all the fines and extra money that comes with breaking a lease. AND they can pay deposits and moving expenses to go from a shithole to a better building with a "sensible landlord".
Really.
The sensible landlord is looking at his own risks. Everybody loses when the lease is broken. The tenant isn't the only loser.
And walking away is actually pretty easy. Those penalties are very costly to try to enforce and the landlord has little chance of making them stick.
The smart policy is to do the right thing.
| 340 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:09:31pm |
re: #339 lostlakehiker
The sensible landlord is looking at his own risks. Everybody loses when the lease is broken. The tenant isn't the only loser.
And walking away is actually pretty easy. Those penalties are very costly to try to enforce and the landlord has little chance of making them stick.
The smart policy is to do the right thing.
I don't know what world you're living in, but it's not the real one.
| 341 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:09:39pm |
re: #326 Lidane
Because poor people can pay all the fines and extra money that comes with breaking a lease. AND they can pay deposits and moving expenses to go from a shithole to a better building with a "sensible landlord".
Really.
Get real, Lidane. What landlord actually tries to collect blood from a turnip or people who can't be found. What deposit --the government pays much of it.
The last landlord I knew spent more money trying to evict a Section 8 (squatter) than they ever collected. Same landlord had to totally gut a kitchen and bathroom to the studs and replace the fixtures and cabinets because the Section 8 tenant respected the property so much. . .
It works both ways.
| 342 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:09:51pm |
re: #316 lostlakehiker
You are mind-blowing naive and/or ignorant of how the poor are in this country. How do you like that Exurb?
Also, live happens, like health issues, dog getting sick, or other things. Obviously, you have been very privileged, like most of us on here. But most of the nation is not like that.
As I said, the Democrats need to get some cajones, and do what the Republicans are doing rhetorically right back at them. Start with the fact that they are not even adhering to the religion they by-and-large claim to follow.
| 343 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:10:19pm |
re: #328 ProLifeLiberal
Bullshit on your "invisible hand!" Because of it, wages have been stagnant for thirty years, an entire reigon is hollowed out, and we have the highest poverty rate in the 1st world, along with medical costs so high, that a massive chunk of the population can't get it.
Shove your "invisible hand." Your economic policies have failed. Time for something different.
It's not the Invisible Hand that is choking the poor, so much as the Invisible Dick up their asses.
'Nite, all.
| 344 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:10:41pm |
re: #300 publicityStunted
Sorry, but you could not be more wrong about this. It's entirely possible to be overweight but malnourished, thanks to the high-fructose corn syrup crap being marketed as acceptable food products. Are you aware how expensive healthy food is, especially for those on tight budgets? And that many people in poor neighborhoods are trapped in "food deserts", where (through lack of private vehicles and public transit) they can't even get to a grocery store and have access to things like fresh produce? The only food that's accessible and affordable for them is the absolute worst from a health perspective.
I suggest you play this interactive game on what it's really like to be poor, before falling for the AGW-denying heritage foundation's ridiculous blather on the subject.
Repeated for the sake of repetition!
| 345 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:10:51pm |
re: #325 Decatur Deb
Save room on your shitlist for the 60% or so who didn't vote at all in the 2010 election.
Oh, don't get me started on those lazy, emo, manic-progressive bastards. They are third on the shit list. Every time I think about Ed Shultz saying people shouldn't bother voting in 2010 because Democrats blah, blah, blah......I want scream. I call them the Loser Left, they are never more happy then when they have lost an election. Then they can be emo about everything they were already emo about and blame the Democrats for not inspiring them enough to consistently care about the country's future. Fuck them too. I'd ask them if they were happy now, but they probably are or they are happy being miserable.
| 346 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:10:51pm |
re: #337 jamesfirecat
Dark the issue is not that we're doing fighting in Iraq, the issue is that we'red doing Spending in/on Iraq.
It's worth the money at 10,00 troops, James. Iraq stays friendly, it's army is improved, and Iran is deterred. If the cost of that is reduced social spending, I'm OK with that.
| 347 |
Interesting Times Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:10:53pm |
re: #316 lostlakehiker
I saw that game. It's rigged. If I make the prudent choice, it breaks my car for me and makes my dog get sick and if that doesn't suffice it just breaks my leg or something.
Because unforeseen negative events beyond one's control never happen in real life 9_9
I see the lives of the people you're talking about. The ones I know DO have access to good food.
Anecdotal evidence != reality for everyone else. Why do you assume that just because you happen to see something in your own life, it automagically means a different situation can't exist?
| 348 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:11:27pm |
re: #329 lostlakehiker
Yes, if by poor, you mean living on a lot less than what you now say is necessary. And my landlords didn't cheat me.
You either had a fantastical experience by avoiding 99% of what the rest of us had to go through, or you're just flat out lying/underestimating yourself to make your point. I'll give you benefit of the doubt and assume the former, but only if you can assume that just because you had it rosy must logically mean, without exception, everyone else does to and thus spending money on poor people is redundant and/or a waste.
| 349 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:12:23pm |
re: #310 Gus 802
Shit, once the temps get to a certain point in my area, it doesn't matter what I set the AC to, it never gets the apt. lower than 81.
| 350 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:12:26pm |
re: #322 lostlakehiker
If the tenant moves out because the place is not up to code, the landlord loses money. It's that simple.
A sensible landlord keeps the place in shape. Less turnover, no lawsuit hassles, everybody's happy.
Yeah, because a poor person can afford the cost of getting a new place, covering moving expenses, taking the time off of work, paying a security deposit, etc, so easily.
| 351 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:12:38pm |
re: #348 Spocomptonite
You either had a fantastical experience by avoiding 99% of what the rest of us had to go through, or you're just flat out lying/underestimating yourself to make your point. I'll give you benefit of the doubt and assume the former, but only if you
candon't assume that just because you had it rosy must logically mean, without exception, everyone else does to and thus spending money on poor people is redundant and/or a waste.
Yeah that came out backwards the first time.
| 352 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:12:46pm |
re: #341 ggt
That's Section 8. Not everyone who's poor is a Section 8 or lives in tenement housing that the government pays for.
| 353 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:13:12pm |
re: #346 Dark_Falcon
It's worth the money at 10,00 troops, James. Iraq stays friendly, it's army is improved, and Iran is deterred. If the cost of that is reduced social spending, I'm OK with that.
I'm not saying the money isn't being well spent.
But it is being spent.
So either admit that deficits don't matter or suggest we find some way to increase revenue to make up the amount we're spending.
I'm happy with either.
Or hey I'll throw in a third option, you can cut money, but it has to be from the Pentagon's budget in other areas, that seems fair doesn't it?
| 354 |
justaminute Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:13:32pm |
We are never to win in Afghanistan. The only way we can "save" the women of Afghanistan is pack up all willing women and their children and bring them here. Have you heard any good news coming out of Afghanistan lately? Now they are linking AQ to Iran. That wouldn't surprise me because there are so many factions in Iran with their own agenda. That area is a hot stinking mess and nobody can win there, not the US, not Afghans or the Pakistani. We need another plan and a break. IMHO
| 355 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:13:53pm |
re: #349 Slumbering Behemoth
Shit, once the temps get to a certain point in my area, it doesn't matter what I set the AC to, it never gets the apt. lower than 81.
My apt is 83 right now. It only got up to 71 outside today.
| 356 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:14:44pm |
re: #353 jamesfirecat
I'm not saying the money isn't being well spent.
But it is being spent.
So either admit that deficits don't matter or suggest we find some way to increase revenue to make up the amount we're spending.
I'm happy with either.
Or hey I'll throw in a third option, you can cut money, but it has to be from the Pentagon's budget in other areas, that seems fair doesn't it?
If we ended the ethanol subsidy, we could pay for a 10,00 troop deployment easily.
| 357 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:15:09pm |
re: #308 ggt
Well, I remember watching b&w Lassie episodes in which the Mom had an "ice box". I've your living in the 1950's, a real refrigerator might be a standard of affluence.
This isn't the '50s.
| 358 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:15:13pm |
re: #349 Slumbering Behemoth
Shit, once the temps get to a certain point in my area, it doesn't matter what I set the AC to, it never gets the apt. lower than 81.
Last place I was at I had to keep the swamp cooler running 24/7 during the summer months. It would never get below 76. Never below 70. This was running it 24/7 too. We paid for the fan electricity.
| 359 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:15:35pm |
re: #346 Dark_Falcon
Sorry, we need to cut the military. No way around it.
In any case, Iraq is nowhere near as frail as you think it is. The constitution was written in a way that no one of the major groups (Shia Sunni, or Kurd) can drag the country in a direction on its own.
We have to start closing bases. How about the ones reminding us of one of the greatest military boondoggles in US history.
| 360 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:15:53pm |
| 361 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:16:11pm |
And for PLL:
Libyan rebel chief gunned down in Benghazi
The commander of Libya's rebel army was assassinated in Benghazi along with two senior officers on Thursday, rebel leaders announced just hours after claiming big successes on the battlefield.
The death of Gen. Abdul Fattah Younis came after the rebels' Transitional National Council sought Younis for questioning about military matters and alleged ongoing ties to Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi, according to what Younis' supporters told journalist James Hider of the Times of London.
Younis had been on the rebel front in the strategic oil port of Brega, west of Benghazi, when he was arrested by other members of the rebel army, Younis' supporters told Hider.
In response, Younis' bodyguards and special forces said they would release Younis by armed force and break him out of prison, Hider told CNN.
Following Younis' death, some of his supporters began shooting in the streets of Benghazi, Hider said.
Supporters also shot at a Benghazi hotel and smashed its windows. Journalists had been gathered at the hotel for a press conference held by the rebel's civilian leader who announced Younis was summoned back to Benghazi and was killed along with his two aides under unclear circumstances, Hider told CNN.
This could be quite bad.
| 362 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:17:26pm |
re: #326 Lidane
Because poor people can pay all the fines and extra money that comes with breaking a lease.
You'd be surprised at how many people (poor or not) can walk away from a lease owing thousands of dollars of back rent and not lose anything behind that other than their deposit.
I know that's a bit of a tangent, but just sayin'.
| 363 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:17:30pm |
re: #352 Lidane
That's Section 8. Not everyone who's poor is a Section 8 or lives in tenement housing that the government pays for.
The landlord I was talking about did not own a tenement.
The point being that there are bad tenants and there are bad landlords. There are those who have work the system to their advantage and screw-us all.
| 364 |
freetoken Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:17:45pm |
re: #359 ProLifeLiberal
Sorry, we need to cut the military. No way around it.
I believe we are at a point where we have no choice - since no one seems to want to do the reasonable thing (raise taxes), the only option left is to pare back on discretionary spending, the biggest single chunk of which is the combined (i.e., including intelligence and VA) defense budget.
| 365 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:17:49pm |
re: #356 Dark_Falcon
If we ended the ethanol subsidy, we could pay for a 10,00 troop deployment easily.
Works for me DF.
Now if only you could have some words with your buddies on the right about it and I'll talk with mien on the left.
Ethanol (or really any plans to turn plants (besides Kudzu) into biofules is really a dead end all things considered.
| 366 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:17:53pm |
re: #309 lostlakehiker
So what you're saying is that section 8 housing, and other welfare housing, doesn't actually deliver AC? I can believe it. That makes my point, though. Money being spent in the name of the poor isn't getting the results that were contracted for.
Poor people who rent outside the welfare system, including the near poor, stand a real chance of getting what they pay for. If the AC breaks, odds are the landlord gets it fixed within a couple of days. The invisible hand sees to that.
What you seem to forget is that capitalism demands a certain level of unemployment to keep wages down. Full employment is anethama. So companies that thrive on the capitalist system should pay for the cost of supporting those workers who cannot fill available jobs, because they don't exist, when times are bad.
This is pretty basic macroeconomic theory.The Rs apparently don't understand the concept.
| 367 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:17:57pm |
re: #309 lostlakehiker
So what you're saying is that section 8 housing, and other welfare housing, doesn't actually deliver AC? I can believe it. That makes my point, though. Money being spent in the name of the poor isn't getting the results that were contracted for.
Poor people who rent outside the welfare system, including the near poor, stand a real chance of getting what they pay for. If the AC breaks, odds are the landlord gets it fixed within a couple of days. The invisible hand sees to that.
I take it you have no experience with landlords.
| 368 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:18:16pm |
re: #340 Lidane
I don't know what world you're living in, but it's not the real one.
I think it's A real one. There are poor people in the country who have access to a fairly functional world, they're just poor.
Then there are the poor who don't have much access to the functional world. And they are a whole different ball of wax, and the ones usually accused of insane high living on the national dime.
| 369 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:18:26pm |
re: #346 Dark_Falcon
It's worth the money at 10,00 troops, James. Iraq stays friendly, it's army is improved, and Iran is deterred. If the cost of that is reduced social spending, I'm OK with that.
So you are OK with deficit spending on things that you like and value, but you wouldn't want taxes to go up to pay for it? Typical Republican. You got your wars and your prescription drugs and your tax cuts and now that the bill is due you don't want to pay for it. Let's just defaulton the countries debts like GOP Congressman Walsh on his child support payments. I'm starting understand the "conservative" mindset more and more. It's the mindset of deadbeats who want to run out on the bills and responsibilities that they racked up. You ran up the credit card on shit you wanted and now you don't want to pay for it.
| 370 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:18:27pm |
re: #359 ProLifeLiberal
I'd rather cut Medicare, and I think that a better idea, too. We need a strong military and we cannot go back to the hollow force of the 1970's. We must reform entitlements, not cripple our defenses.
| 371 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:18:46pm |
re: #354 justaminute
We are stuck in the middle of a power struggle between Pakistan and China on one side, and India and Iran on the other. Considering everything going on, just get out, and pray that Pakistan will get a heaping truckful of Karma soon.
| 372 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:20:03pm |
re: #370 Dark_Falcon
I'd rather cut Medicare, and I think that a better idea, too. We need a strong military and we cannot go back to the hollow force of the 1970's. We must reform entitlements, not cripple our defenses.
To fight what?
| 373 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:20:20pm |
re: #313 Slumbering Behemoth
We have designated cooling centers in our area that open up after the temps reach a certain point for those who have no AC. Waste of money, if you ask me. Fuck the poor.
/
Literally! The poor should be hired out as prostitutes and garbage workers.
| 374 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:21:42pm |
re: #372 austin_blue
To fight what?
China, North Korea, Iran, whoever we may find ourselves attacked by. National Defense is job one, much higher than social spending.
| 375 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:22:00pm |
re: #370 Dark_Falcon
I'd rather cut Medicare, and I think that a better idea, too. We need a strong military and we cannot go back to the hollow force of the 1970's. We must reform entitlements, not cripple our defenses.
There's plenty that could be cut from the Pentagon. Frankly, I'm tired of the way we treat is as if though it's some sacred cow. We can start by letting go of Japan, Germany, and South Korea and letting them pay their own way. Another is to stop using military assets for the failed Drug War.
| 376 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:22:01pm |
re: #370 Dark_Falcon
I'd rather cut Medicare, and I think that a better idea, too. We need a strong military and we cannot go back to the hollow force of the 1970's. We must reform entitlements, not cripple our defenses.
Dark right now we're spending about as much on our military as every other nation in the world put together....
I think we can tone it down a notch.
| 377 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:22:05pm |
re: #365 jamesfirecat
Works for me DF.
Now if only you could have some words with your buddies on the right about it and I'll talk with mien on the left.
Ethanol (or really any plans to turn plants (besides Kudzu) into biofules is really a dead end all things considered.
Kudzu into biofuel. GENIUS. This could really turn the table on a bet I have with a friend of which will happen first: That we lose California to the ocean or one of the Southern states to Kudzu.
| 378 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:22:11pm |
re: #315 jamesfirecat
"The Invisible Hand sees to that?"
Why?
Because the poor will move to someplace else if the AC is broken?
I'm sure being poor they have a lot of free time to go searching for a new apartment to rent, or who knows maybe their just unemployed in which case I bet the lucky dogs have all the time in the world to go shopping for a new place to live with the money they don't have...
I am dubious of trusting things I can't see and that includes the invisible hand of the market.
It costs money to rent beyond the monthly bill. First and last month's rent plus security deposit.
Where do they get that money?
| 379 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:22:15pm |
| 380 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:22:31pm |
re: #339 lostlakehiker
The sensible landlord is looking at his own risks. Everybody loses when the lease is broken. The tenant isn't the only loser.
And walking away is actually pretty easy. Those penalties are very costly to try to enforce and the landlord has little chance of making them stick.
The smart policy is to do the right thing.
Quite true. And "turning over" an apt. with just normal wear and tear can cost a couple thousand dollars itself, never mind how much it costs if the place is abused.
| 381 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:22:42pm |
re: #370 Dark_Falcon
Not at the cost of the poor.
Why do so many conservatives want to gut the poor. What drives this? It certainly isn't religion, considering what all the major ones say, and considering that Allah was willing to annihilate 2 major towns because of this sort of behavior.
re: #372 austin_blue
Exactly. China is already beginning to crack. And Russia is always having issues, and they will only continue to get worse.
Leaving who for us to fight? To stop Genocides, you don't exactly need a massive military. Not with the nations doing them now.
| 382 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:23:01pm |
re: #372 austin_blue
To fight what?
Well, we made that mistake once already. Remember, we thought "the Cold War is over, we don't need to spend money on Intelligence or the Military. That worked out real well didn't it?
The world is changing fast, power is shifting and we can't be left without adequate defenses.
Part of being a player is working the board.
| 383 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:23:06pm |
re: #372 austin_blue
To fight what?
The Al Qaeda air force! They have SU-30s!!11ty
Well, not yet... But they will!
Oh, and Venezuela. We're going to war with Venezuela some day soon!!11ty
| 384 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:23:15pm |
re: #376 jamesfirecat
Dark right now we're spending about as much on our military as every other nation in the world put together...
I think we can tone it down a notch.
No! The fact that we can't even gain decisive victories in Iraq and Afghanistan only proves that we need to spend more!
| 385 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:23:34pm |
re: #374 Dark_Falcon
China, North Korea, Iran, whoever we may find ourselves attacked by. National Defense is job one, much higher than social spending.
We're unlikely to be militarily attacked by any of those three.
| 386 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:23:37pm |
re: #374 Dark_Falcon
China, North Korea, Iran, whoever we may find ourselves attacked by. National Defense is job one, much higher than social spending.
Our SSBMs alone can turn each and every one of those countries into smoking slag. What else do you need?
| 387 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:23:51pm |
At this point it's as if though we'll send in F-22s to fight AQ in their AN-2s!
//
| 388 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:24:08pm |
re: #370 Dark_Falcon
I'd rather cut Medicare, and I think that a better idea, too. We need a strong military and we cannot go back to the hollow force of the 1970's. We must reform entitlements, not cripple our defenses.
LOL at "reducing defense spending to a level not greater than all the rest of the earth" somehow equaling "cripple our defenses".
| 389 |
jaunte Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:24:26pm |
re: #376 jamesfirecat
Dark right now we're spending about as much on our military as every other nation in the world put together...
I think we can tone it down a notch.
| 390 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:24:38pm |
re: #355 Spocomptonite
My apt is 83 right now. It only got up to 71 outside today.
Open a window!
:)
| 391 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:24:45pm |
re: #374 Dark_Falcon
China, North Korea, Iran, whoever we may find ourselves attacked by. National Defense is job one, much higher than social spending.
Dark saying "National Defense" is job one is ass backwards when our nation is not being attacked by any other nation is ass backwards to me
You can't care more about the walls than the people who live inside them.
| 392 |
goddamnedfrank Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:25:51pm |
re: #346 Dark_Falcon
It's worth the money at 10,00 troops, James. Iraq stays friendly, it's army is improved, and Iran is deterred.
LOL, invading Iraq is what empowered Iran to begin with, what a colossal blunder.
| 393 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:25:56pm |
re: #389 jaunte
Ha! I was going to post that the other day. Isn't that amazing? I mean. That's freaking pathetic. We spend 43 percent of world expenditures on military spending. Almost half the world!
| 394 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:26:27pm |
re: #390 Slumbering Behemoth
Open a window!
:)
I have two windows open and a fan on 24/7. The problems are: all my windows are on one side, I can't do anything about the skylight, and I live above a restaurant's kitchen.
| 395 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:26:29pm |
re: #388 Spocomptonite
LOL at "reducing defense spending to a level not greater than all the rest of the earth" somehow equaling "cripple our defenses".
Hey, hey now. If it weren't for all of that massive military spending we could not have had such decisive victories in Iraq and Afghanistan! Oh, wait..........
| 396 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:26:30pm |
re: #322 lostlakehiker
If the tenant moves out because the place is not up to code, the landlord loses money. It's that simple.
A sensible landlord keeps the place in shape. Less turnover, no lawsuit hassles, everybody's happy.
That only works when there are more rental properties than renters who can afford the rent.
You are living in a fantasy world.
| 397 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:26:38pm |
re: #393 Gus 802
Ha! I was going to post that the other day. Isn't that amazing? I mean. That's freaking pathetic. We spend 43 percent of world expenditures on military spending. Almost half the world!
I'd like to see a breakdown of that figure as well . . . .
| 398 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:26:46pm |
re: #386 austin_blue
Our SSBMs alone can turn each and every one of those countries into smoking slag. What else do you need?
Nukes are not called for in most cases, nor would most of those here permit their use.
| 399 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:26:50pm |
re: #390 Slumbering Behemoth
Open a window!
:)
My apartment does that too. It's snug in winter, but in the summer it heats up, even if it's cool outside.
Drives me crazy.
| 400 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:27:03pm |
re: #392 goddamnedfrank
LOL, invading Iraq is what empowered Iran to begin with, what a colossal blunder.
THIS.
| 401 |
KingKenrod Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:27:06pm |
Lot of costs to consider when cutting the military.
What's the impact on domestic employment?
Does it increase the odds of a limited nuclear exchange?
Does it slow the progress of technology?
Does it weaken the US hand in negotiating treaties?
| 402 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:27:11pm |
re: #392 goddamnedfrank
And Iran has enough issues that, given enough time, it will fix itself. The nation has more economic issues than you can imagine. Eventually, something will give, and something magical will occur.
| 403 |
freetoken Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:27:30pm |
re: #393 Gus 802
That is the deal we've made with the rest of the world.
We do the policing - they do the manufacturing (cheap labor) and buy our fancy entertainment and debt.
| 405 |
justaminute Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:28:30pm |
We can't even reason with our own countrymen and we are going to change the thinking of the people of the Middle East. Now that is magical thinking.
| 406 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:28:43pm |
re: #397 ggt
The two largest air forces in the world.
Both ours.
The US Air Force is first, and the US Naval Air Force is second.
| 407 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:29:16pm |
re: #397 ggt
I'd like to see a breakdown of that figure as well . . .
Yeah, but you know we're obsessed with having the best military in the world. Have been since the end of WWII and the start of the Cold War. For what though? Where is it written in the Constitution that we have to be the world's military protectorate?
| 408 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:29:25pm |
re: #406 ProLifeLiberal
The two largest air forces in the world.
Both ours.
The US Air Force is first, and the US Naval Air Force is second.
Personally, I think that is very cool.
| 409 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:31:01pm |
re: #381 ProLifeLiberal
Not at the cost of the poor.
Why do so many conservatives want to gut the poor. What drives this? It certainly isn't religion, considering what all the major ones say, and considering that Allah was willing to annihilate 2 major towns because of this sort of behavior.
Yes, at the cost of the poor. Defense is job 1; It is more important than aid to the poor.
Those are my priorities and they have not ever changed.
| 410 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:31:11pm |
re: #401 KingKenrod
Lot of costs to consider when cutting the military.
What's the impact on domestic employment?
Does it increase the odds of a limited nuclear exchange?
Does it slow the progress of technology?
Does it weaken the US hand in negotiating treaties?
When I say "cut military spending", I don't mean arbitrarily gut it 10-25% overnight. I don't want the troops we do have to suddenly lose all their equipment. But if we curtail enlistment, over time we can spend the same or more per soldier than we do now, but just have less of them. And no soldier goes into Iraq with shoddy/no body armor, so really its a win-win.
| 411 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:31:40pm |
| 412 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:32:23pm |
Attention:
We have sunk to the point where everyone "gets" this joke (regardless of whether you think it's funny).
[Link: twitter.com...]
10 years ago, not a single person on the planet would have been able to make heads or tails of it.
| 413 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:32:27pm |
re: #409 Dark_Falcon
Yes, at the cost of the poor. Defense is job 1; It is more important than aid to the poor.
Those are my priorities and they have not ever changed.
You can man the watchtowers in defense of an empire that has nobody left.
| 414 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:32:30pm |
re: #409 Dark_Falcon
Yes, at the cost of the poor. Defense is job 1; It is more important than aid to the poor.
Those are my priorities and they have not ever changed.
Then what the fuck are you defending?
| 415 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:32:35pm |
re: #409 Dark_Falcon
Yes, at the cost of the poor. Defense is job 1; It is more important than aid to the poor.
Those are my priorities and they have not ever changed.
Achtung Velcome to Fortress Amerika!
The day you care more about the walls and the guns than your fellow humans is the day you've already lost whatever moral high ground you may claim to have.
Thank you for finally helping to articulate just what I've sensed to be "off" about you so many times DF.
| 416 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:32:42pm |
re: #407 Gus 802
Yeah, but you know we're obsessed with having the best military in the world. Have been since the end of WWII and the start of the Cold War. For what though? Where is it written in the Constitution that we have to be the world's military protectorate?
I seem to remember that the USS Comfort and Mercy fall under the Military Budget. I think I saw a few newscasts in which Military Doctors were administering care and vaccines to Iraqi's. JROTC, ROTC fall under the military budget.
I also think there is a lot of hidden dollars in the military budget that might otherwise fall under "foreign aid".
Yes, there is a lot of waste, and a lot of money we don't think of as "military spending" that is, in fact, military spending.
I'd like to see a breakdown of these figures to see exactly what is spent under the "military budget".
| 417 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:32:48pm |
Heh. Saw that Onion clip on G4TV yesterday.
/24 years old, already lost all faith in humanity, hoping I can get a job before EVERYONE DIES ON AUGUST 3RD.
/...
//also, went grocery shopping and entered for $1250 in gift cards.
| 418 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:33:29pm |
re: #408 ggt
True, but it does give pause.
Also, the fact that we are going to be replacing the various jets in the Air Force with the massively dysfunction F-35 is an issue.
Can that stupid thing, and talk to one of our European Allies about getting a modified version of one of their fighters. The Russians used the same basic design (SU-27) for 20-30 years, and much of the tech and parts in their new fighter come from that family.
We need to do the same sort of thing. We can branch out and make more advanced the F-15, F-16, and F-18.
| 419 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:33:39pm |
re: #411 Slumbering Behemoth
re: #399 SanFranciscoZionist
Heh. On place I lived in Seattle had giant friggin windows facing the setting sun, no drapes/shades, and high enough up to not get any natural shade. And two tiny little openings in the bottom corners smaller than a shoe-box lid.
Nothing wakes you up in the morning like OH GOD SO MUCH SUN THROUGH THE 19TH FLOOR WINDOW GAAAH
| 420 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:33:47pm |
re: #410 Spocomptonite
When I say "cut military spending", I don't mean arbitrarily gut it 10-25% overnight. I don't want the troops we do have to suddenly lose all their equipment. But if we curtail enlistment, over time we can spend the same or more per soldier than we do now, but just have less of them. And no soldier goes into Iraq with shoddy/no body armor, so really its a win-win.
Nah. You know the drill. If you say cut the military it means cut if overnight and that you hate everyone in a uniform. Cut it so deep that even Honduras has a stronger military while we open up a Department of Peace. Then, spread around your Tranzi Prog!!11ty ideology upon all Americans while taking away their guns and Bibles and making their kids learn about gays in history class.
//
| 421 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:34:19pm |
re: #382 ggt
Well, we made that mistake once already. Remember, we thought "the Cold War is over, we don't need to spend money on Intelligence or the Military. That worked out real well didn't it?
The world is changing fast, power is shifting and we can't be left without adequate defenses.
Part of being a player is working the board.
You know what mistake we also made? Continuing to build Cold War era weapons to fight an enemy that no longer exists. When your enemy can't even field an air force, what good are air-superiority fighters? Or next generation tanks when your enemy's most advanced vehicles are pickup trucks with machine gun mounts welded in?
| 423 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:35:47pm |
re: #419 laZardo
The view was kinda neat, though. It being Seattle, trees everywhere.
| 424 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:36:14pm |
re: #416 ggt
I seem to remember that the USS Comfort and Mercy fall under the Military Budget. I think I saw a few newscasts in which Military Doctors were administering care and vaccines to Iraqi's. JROTC, ROTC fall under the military budget.
I also think there is a lot of hidden dollars in the military budget that might otherwise fall under "foreign aid".
Yes, there is a lot of waste, and a lot of money we don't think of as "military spending" that is, in fact, military spending.
I'd like to see a breakdown of these figures to see exactly what is spent under the "military budget".
I can't come up with a military budget right now. My only point is that there is plenty of room to cut in the military. And, it's going to happen especially as things wind down in Iraq (which it has already) and in Afghanistan as we head towards 2014. Right now, we're at overkill levels.
| 425 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:36:19pm |
re: #422 freetoken
Anyone here use a bread machine?
My mom makes the best bread, and if you disagree I will pinch you.
| 426 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:36:24pm |
re: #410 Spocomptonite
When I say "cut military spending", I don't mean arbitrarily gut it 10-25% overnight. I don't want the troops we do have to suddenly lose all their equipment. But if we curtail enlistment, over time we can spend the same or more per soldier than we do now, but just have less of them. And no soldier goes into Iraq with shoddy/no body armor, so really its a win-win.
OOORRRrrr, we could quit doing absurd things like paying private contractors $100 per load to wash soldiers' laundry (and mandating that they use the contractors, or ELSE).
| 427 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:36:28pm |
re: #411 Slumbering Behemoth
re: #399 SanFranciscoZionist
Heh. On place I lived in Seattle had giant friggin windows facing the setting sun, no drapes/shades, and high enough up to not get any natural shade. And two tiny little openings in the bottom corners smaller than a shoe-box lid.
Small world. I'm just north of Seattle, and you know how NO PLACE for rent in Puget Sound has air conditioning. You only need AC like 4 weeks of the year, but those 4 weeks are hell.
| 428 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:36:33pm |
re: #421 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
You know what mistake we also made? Continuing to build Cold War era weapons to fight an enemy that no longer exists. When your enemy can't even field an air force, what good are air-superiority fighters? Or next generation tanks when your enemy's most advanced vehicles are pickup trucks with machine gun mounts welded in?
Aliens.
:B
| 429 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:36:39pm |
re: #418 ProLifeLiberal
That idea actually has promise. I'd be happy to use Typhoons instead of F-35s.
| 430 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:36:49pm |
re: #415 jamesfirecat
Achtung Velcome to Fortress Amerika!
The day you care more about the walls and the guns than your fellow humans is the day you've already lost whatever moral high ground you may claim to have.
Thank you for finally helping to articulate just what I've sensed to be "off" about you so many times DF.
Material posessions and killing machines are usually more important than actual persons in Conservatopia.
In fact, back when people were the material posessions, I heard their families were better and stronger. /
Anyway, one more day, and it will be his self-imposed deadline for that definition of "multiculturalism". I sure hope it differs from Steyn, Spencer, Geller, Beck and the rest running frightened of their own scare-terms.
| 431 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:36:53pm |
re: #422 freetoken
Anyone here use a bread machine?
I'm morally opposed to them.
I'm also too busy to bake actual bread in an oven.
This probably says something about me.
| 432 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:36:53pm |
re: #414 JasonA
And, does anybody remember what happened to the Russian Empire that did the exact same thing?
| 433 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:37:11pm |
re: #382 ggt
Well, we made that mistake once already. Remember, we thought "the Cold War is over, we don't need to spend money on Intelligence or the Military. That worked out real well didn't it?
The world is changing fast, power is shifting and we can't be left without adequate defenses.
Part of being a player is working the board.
But you don't need a traditional army to do that. Force projection has changed. Keep the Marines, Navy, and certain assets in the Air Force, and you will be able to attack any risk to our interests.
| 434 |
Interesting Times Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:37:33pm |
re: #409 Dark_Falcon
Yes, at the cost of the poor. Defense is job 1; It is more important than aid to the poor.
Now where have I heard this before?
Sŏn'gun, often spelled Songun, is North Korea's "Military First" policy, which prioritizes the Korean People's Army in the affairs of state and allocates national resources to the army first.
| 435 |
freetoken Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:37:34pm |
re: #425 Slumbering Behemoth
My mom makes the best bread, and if you disagree I will pinch you.
Ah, so your mother is your bread machine, eh?
The next thing you'll probably tell me you prefer a real woman for sex, as opposed to a machine, no?
| 436 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:38:06pm |
re: #427 Spocomptonite
Small world. I'm just north of Seattle, and you know how NO PLACE for rent in Puget Sound has air conditioning. You only need AC like 4 weeks of the year, but those 4 weeks are hell.
I lived all over Seattle, and not one place had AC. One place did have three pools, surprisingly. Never got used.
| 437 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:38:35pm |
re: #426 negativ
OOORRRrrr, we could quit doing absurd things like paying private contractors $100 per load to wash soldiers' laundry (and mandating that they use the contractors, or ELSE).
Heaven forbid the contractors actually engage in some of that competition we've heard is so vital to the free market. ///
| 438 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:39:12pm |
re: #413 Spocomptonite
You can man the watchtowers in defense of an empire that has nobody left.
What? We're not talking about some mass die-off here. That's complete hyperbole. The best solutions to poverty involve growing the economy, not government spending. A safe nation, guarded by a better-run government is that best way to do that.
| 439 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:39:25pm |
re: #426 negativ
OOORRRrrr, we could quit doing absurd things like paying private contractors $100 per load to wash soldiers' laundry (and mandating that they use the contractors, or ELSE).
Why do you hate Murica?!?!
//
| 440 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:39:35pm |
re: #409 Dark_Falcon
Yes, at the cost of the poor. Defense is job 1; It is more important than aid to the poor.
Those are my priorities and they have not ever changed.
You are more afraid of foreign threats than domestic threats when domestic threats are far more likely.
Ignoring the poor can only increase that domestic threat.
| 441 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:39:52pm |
re: #437 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Heaven forbid the contractors actually engage in some of that competition we've heard is so vital to the free market. ///
Wasn't that a no bid contract with Haliburton?
| 443 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:40:53pm |
re: #438 Dark_Falcon
What? We're not talking about some mass die-off here. That's complete hyperbole. The best solutions to poverty involve growing the economy, not government spending. A safe nation, guarded by a better-run government is that best way to do that.
PSss.... Dark... a little hint.... when private enterprises are refusing to hire people and there's a 8 -9% unemployment rate.... the way you grow the economy is through government spending!
| 444 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:40:53pm |
re: #438 Dark_Falcon
What? We're not talking about some mass die-off here. That's complete hyperbole. The best solutions to poverty involve growing the economy, not government spending. A safe nation, guarded by a better-run government is that best way to do that.
We tried growing an economy via tax cuts. It failed. What's your suggestion?
| 445 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:41:01pm |
re: #435 freetoken
Ah, so your mother is your bread machine, eh?
The next thing you'll probably tell me you prefer a real woman for sex, as opposed to a machine, no?
No, my mom has a bread machine. It's pretty cool.
As far as that other thing goes... at least I don't have to buy it dinner and listen to boring small talk.
/kidding, ladies
| 446 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:41:29pm |
re: #422 freetoken
Anyone here use a bread machine?
My mother used to use this contraption called a Mill and Mix. It actually came out pretty decent, from what I remember.
[Link: www.worthpoint.com...]
| 447 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:41:36pm |
re: #440 b_sharp
You are more afraid of foreign threats than domestic threats when domestic threats are far more likely.
Ignoring the poor can only increase that domestic threat.
How many people were murdered since 9/11? My guess is about 100,000 people. More or less.
| 448 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:42:08pm |
re: #429 Dark_Falcon
Considering Role, the Rafale and Gripen are more comparable.
Especially the Gripen NG, which now has the absolute latest in tech, at 1/3rd the cost of the F-35.
And because it is Sweden, we don't have to worry about stupid shenanigans occurring with the money. Because Sweden doesn't do stupid shenanigans.
The election last year where everyone was horrified at the Swedish Democrats getting an increase in votes?
They got 5.7% of the vote.
Why was everyone spazzing? That is minuscule. Barely above the cutoff point for representation (5%).
| 449 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:42:14pm |
| 450 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:42:23pm |
re: #447 Gus 802
How many people were murdered since 9/11? My guess is about 1,000,000people. More or less.
Iraq, Afghanistan, soon Libya.
| 451 |
freetoken Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:43:00pm |
re: #446 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
It does seem popular to use bread machines just to mix the dough, then bake the item in an oven when the dough is ready.
| 452 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:43:09pm |
re: #441 Gus 802
Wasn't that a no bid contract with Haliburton?
IIRC there were a few of them.
Grifters.
| 453 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:43:14pm |
re: #448 ProLifeLiberal
And because it is Sweden, we don't have to worry about stupid shenanigans occurring with the money. Because Sweden doesn't do stupid shenanigans.
I:
| 454 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:43:26pm |
re: #444 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
We tried growing an economy via tax cuts. It failed. What's your suggestion?
For this minute, there's nothing to be done. There won't be major hiring till 2013. At present, the parties are so far apart and things are so bad that no one wants to take the risk. Things will get better when there is some certainty again.
| 455 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:43:54pm |
re: #420 Gus 802
Nah. You know the drill. If you say cut the military it means cut if overnight and that you hate everyone in a uniform. Cut it so deep that even Honduras has a stronger military while we open up a Department of Peace. Then, spread around your Tranzi Prog!!11ty ideology upon all Americans while taking away their guns and Bibles and making their kids learn about gays in history class.
//
Tranzi lol haven't heard that old epithet in a while. Lol!
| 456 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:44:17pm |
re: #453 laZardo
That is the Swedish Music Industry.
I very seriously doubt we would be paying them for the fighters. :P
| 457 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:44:44pm |
re: #447 Gus 802
How many people were murdered since 9/11? My guess is about 100,000 people. More or less.
So let's see. 100,000 murdered. Now let's add 45,000 dead every year because they don't have any health insurance. So that's 550,000 dead at with our own hands since 9/11. That's about the population of Toledo, Ohio. Dead. Since 9/11.
| 458 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:45:03pm |
re: #448 ProLifeLiberal
Considering Role, the Rafale and Gripen are more comparable.
Especially the Gripen NG, which now has the absolute latest in tech, at 1/3rd the cost of the F-35.
OK, that's a good idea.
| 459 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:45:09pm |
re: #434 publicityStunted
Oh yeah, hey DF, this is the empire you'll eventually be defending if you gut domestic spending in favor of military spending.
We have starving people with easily treated and vaccinated health problems? BAH! I have to throw the weight of our $850 billion a year armed forces at a few guerrilla terrorists! I have no dimes to spare!
| 460 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:45:31pm |
re: #450 laZardo
Iraq, Afghanistan, soon Libya.
Oh. I won't touch that one. I meant homicides in the USA.
| 461 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:45:50pm |
re: #454 Dark_Falcon
For this minute, there's nothing to be done. There won't be major hiring till 2013. At present, the parties are so far apart and things are so bad that no one wants to take the risk. Things will get better when there is some certainty again.
Great, so in the mean time, we're running deficits. Which means we either start butchering sacred cows or we just keep raising the debt ceiling until the economy begins to row. And guess what, defense spending is one of those sacred cows.
| 462 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:45:52pm |
re: #451 freetoken
It does seem popular to use bread machines just to mix the dough, then bake the item in an oven when the dough is ready.
Yeah, that one would mill the grain, then make the dough.
I wonder if a Cuisinart could do something similar. I don't bake so I don't know. Are you planning to make some bread?
| 463 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:46:12pm |
re: #451 freetoken
Do you have a question about bread machines, or are you doing a census kind of thing?
| 464 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:47:14pm |
re: #438 Dark_Falcon
What? We're not talking about some mass die-off here. That's complete hyperbole. The best solutions to poverty involve growing the economy, not government spending. A safe nation, guarded by a better-run government is that best way to do that.
The best solution is to make sure everyone shares in that growth. Unfortunately, the economic growth experienced by western cultures has only been shared by the top 20% or so.
You can grow the economy all you want but with the current system there will always be a huge gap between the richest and the poorest. Economic growth in itself will not help the lowest 20% or so.
| 465 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:47:53pm |
re: #463 Slumbering Behemoth
Do you have a question about bread machines, or are you doing a census kind of thing?
I too question the timing.
//
| 466 |
goddamnedfrank Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:47:54pm |
re: #454 Dark_Falcon
For this minute, there's nothing to be done. There won't be major hiring till 2013. At present, the parties are so far apart and things are so bad that no one wants to take the risk. Things will get better when there is some certainty again.
Why don't you just admit the obvious here? Congressional Republicans will do everything possible to try and ensure that the economy under Obama fails, even run away from their own previously held positions.
| 467 |
austin_blue Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:48:02pm |
I am out of here. Time for the rack. Night all, sweet scaly dreams.
| 468 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:48:44pm |
re: #438 Dark_Falcon
What? We're not talking about some mass die-off here. That's complete hyperbole. The best solutions to poverty involve growing the economy, not government spending. A safe nation, guarded by a better-run government is that best way to do that.
The best solution to poverty is ensuring they have the best possible chance at getting out of it, not hoping those who make millions will put more into the economy and hopefully it will benefit those in poverty somehow. You do realize most all have a job or jobs already, even if they are poor?
| 469 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:49:20pm |
re: #440 b_sharp
You are more afraid of foreign threats than domestic threats when domestic threats are far more likely.
Ignoring the poor can only increase that domestic threat.
Not when you can just mow them all down when they get out of line. Especially those multiculturals causing all these domestic problems. ///
| 470 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:49:37pm |
re: #468 Spocomptonite
The best solution to poverty is ensuring they have the best possible chance at getting out of it, not hoping those who make millions will put more into the economy and hopefully it will benefit those in poverty somehow. You do realize most all have a job or jobs already, even if they are poor?
//Clearly we need to spend even more on the military so that we can afford to conscript these people into it, problem solved!
| 471 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:50:01pm |
re: #461 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Great, so in the mean time, we're running deficits. Which means we either start butchering sacred cows or we just keep raising the debt ceiling until the economy begins to row. And guess what, defense spending is one of those sacred cows.
We've already made major cuts. Let's try reforming Medicare now, then revisit defense later. Defense is not what's killing the budget, but Medicare* is. We need to fix the actual problem.
*: Don't bring up Obama's health care act to answer this. By the administration's own admission, the health care act won't prevent Medicare from going belly-up/
| 472 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:50:07pm |
re: #456 ProLifeLiberal
That is the Swedish Music Industry.
I very seriously doubt we would be paying them for the fighters. :P
Ah, still. q;
I still don't get why they support intervention in Libya though. It's not their conflict.
| 473 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:50:20pm |
re: #465 Gus 802
Heheheh. I was just wondering if he was sitting on the fence considering whether or not to buy one, or just polling us Lizards out of curiosity.
| 474 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:50:28pm |
re: #466 goddamnedfrank
Why don't you just admit the obvious here? Congressional Republicans will do everything possible to try and ensure that the economy under Obama fails, even run away from their own previously held positions.
They are completely out of ideas, and think loyalty oaths to Dick Armey are more important than their oath to this country's Constitution.
| 475 |
freetoken Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:50:40pm |
re: #462 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Cuisinart makes some fancy bread machines. Zojirushi and Panasonic are also popular brands (from the Amazon reviews). There are also the various "branding" of the generic products from Taiwan/China.
Now since I'm down to dance weight (which is below the optimal weight for strength, btw) I figure I need to increase my daily intake. I could do that just via ice cream (preferred method of my taste buds), but I'm thinking of doing some creative baking.
A machine would be nice so that when I get home from the gym I could have a fresh, high protein and high fiber snack waiting for me.
re: #463 Slumbering Behemoth
All this talk about money made me hungry for some bread...
| 476 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:51:13pm |
re: #470 jamesfirecat
//Clearly we need to spend even more on the military so that we can afford to conscript these people into it, problem solved!
It works so well for N. Korea. Isn't their army bigger than their country's population? It would be so Kim Jong Il to make something like that up.
| 477 |
prairiefire Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:51:34pm |
re: #431 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm morally opposed to them.
I'm also too busy to bake actual bread in an oven.
This probably says something about me.
Growing the yeast culture gives me a massive headache. And yet I love beer, go figure.
| 478 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:52:06pm |
re: #474 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
They are completely out of ideas, and think loyalty oaths to Dick Armey are more important than their oath to this country's Constitution.
Medicare isn't part of the Constitution, nor are other types of social spending.
| 479 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:52:25pm |
re: #471 Dark_Falcon
We've already made major cuts. Let's try reforming Medicare now, then revisit defense later. Defense is not what's killing the budget, but Medicare* is. We need to fix the actual problem.
*: Don't bring up Obama's health care act to answer this. By the administration's own admission, the health care act won't prevent Medicare from going belly-up/
We've already seen the GOP's answer to "reforming" Medicare. Guess what, they can blow it out their ass.
| 480 |
b_sharp Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:52:34pm |
Goodnight folks.
Rigid ideology gives me a headache and I have a raging pain right now.
| 481 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:52:50pm |
re: #471 Dark_Falcon
We've already made major cuts. Let's try reforming Medicare now, then revisit defense later. Defense is not what's killing the budget, but Medicare* is. We need to fix the actual problem.
*: Don't bring up Obama's health care act to answer this. By the administration's own admission, the health care act won't prevent Medicare from going belly-up/
No. Keep conservatives' grubby mitts off of Medicare insurance.
Get out of Iraq and Afghanistan. They are albatrosses.
| 482 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:52:56pm |
re: #471 Dark_Falcon
We've already made major cuts. Let's try reforming Medicare now, then revisit defense later. Defense is not what's killing the budget, but Medicare* is. We need to fix the actual problem.
*: Don't bring up Obama's health care act to answer this. By the administration's own admission, the health care act won't prevent Medicare from going belly-up/
What major cuts have we already made in defense Dark? If we've made them then why do I recall military spending being more this year than it was last year?
| 483 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:53:00pm |
re: #478 Dark_Falcon
Medicare isn't part of the Constitution, nor are other types of social spending.
General welfare, OTOH...
| 484 |
prairiefire Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:53:05pm |
re: #480 b_sharp
Goodnight folks.
Rigid ideology gives me a headache and I have a raging pain right now.
Glad you had a good trip.
| 485 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:53:08pm |
Right, there's no room for defense spending cuts.
Image: defense_spending_since_2001.gif
[Link: costofwar.com...]
| 486 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:53:20pm |
re: #478 Dark_Falcon
Medicare isn't part of the Constitution, nor are other types of social spending.
Do you really wanna go down that path? Do you really wanna argue what does and doesn't qualify under the Constitution?
| 487 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:53:35pm |
re: #475 freetoken
Dude, if you can afford one, I say do it!
The stuff my mom has made, just using the simple recopies that came with the machine, has been some of the best bread I've ever tasted. And she got her's at the local Goodwill.
| 488 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:53:44pm |
re: #478 Dark_Falcon
Medicare isn't part of the Constitution, nor are other types of social spending.
" We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[note 1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
| 489 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:53:45pm |
re: #475 freetoken
All this talk about money made me hungry for some bread...
Who doesn't like dough?
| 490 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:53:56pm |
re: #478 Dark_Falcon
Medicare isn't part of the Constitution, nor are other types of social spending.
Neither is defending South Korea, Japan or Germany.
| 491 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:54:29pm |
re: #481 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
No. Keep conservatives' grubby mitts off of Medicare insurance.
Get out of Iraq and Afghanistan. They are albatrosses.
And our foreign bases where there is no longer some kind of imminent/immediate threat. Japan doesn't want us, for example.
((South Korea, on the other hand...))
| 493 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:54:56pm |
re: #478 Dark_Falcon
Medicare isn't part of the Constitution, nor are other types of social spending.
Wrong point: Free Dumb Works, Grover Norquist and their dumb pledges are not part of the Constitution and have no place dictating conservatives' loyalties.
| 494 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:55:32pm |
Could someone please point where in the Constitution it said we had to attack Gaddafi's Libyan military targets? I can't find it.
//
| 495 |
goddamnedfrank Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:56:06pm |
re: #478 Dark_Falcon
Medicare isn't part of the Constitution, nor are other types of social spending.
Ensuring the "general welfare" is right there with "provide for the common defense" in the Preamble as being the very raison d'etres for the creation of our "more perfect union."
| 496 |
prairiefire Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:56:59pm |
Here's hoping we stave off the smoking ruin of our nation for another day. Night, lizards.
| 497 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:57:53pm |
re: #481 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
No. Keep conservatives' grubby mitts off of Medicare insurance.
Get out of Iraq and Afghanistan. They are albatrosses.
Medicare as we know it will end, that much is certain. It's rate of growth cannot be sustained. Reform is inevitable, and its conservatives who will have the task of making sure the resulting reforms contain costs. That said, such reforms should be done with an eye of providing as much value as can be obtained. I have intention of throwing people to the wolves, but the program must be greatly altered.
| 498 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:58:00pm |
re: #487 Slumbering Behemoth
The stuff my mom has made, just using the simple recopies
Fuck you, spellchecker!
| 499 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:58:56pm |
re: #497 Dark_Falcon
Medicare as we know it will end, that much is certain. It's rate of growth cannot be sustained. Reform is inevitable, and its conservatives who will have the task of making sure the resulting reforms contain costs. That said, such reforms should be done with an eye of providing as much value as can be obtained. I have intention of throwing people to the wolves, but the program must be greatly altered.
Which conservatives?
| 500 |
freetoken Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:59:03pm |
re: #498 Slumbering Behemoth
Ironically, using someone else's recipe really is "copying".
| 501 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:59:10pm |
re: #497 Dark_Falcon
I have intention of throwing people to the wolves, but the program must be greatly altered.
Best typo ever.
| 502 |
goddamnedfrank Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:59:19pm |
re: #497 Dark_Falcon
Medicare as we know it will end, that much is certain. It's rate of growth cannot be sustained. Reform is inevitable, and its conservatives who will have the task of making sure the resulting reforms contain costs. That said, such reforms should be done with an eye of providing as much value as can be obtained. I have intention of throwing people to the wolves, but the program must be greatly altered.
Freudian slip.
| 503 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:59:27pm |
| 504 |
MittDoesNotCompute Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:59:30pm |
re: #483 SanFranciscoZionist
General welfare, OTOH...
Took the words right out of my mouth, SFZ.
Dark, while national defense is one the most important enumerated constitutional powers of the federal government, there's something severely screwed up about promoting military spending to the exclusion of almost everything else? It's so dystopian, it sounds like Starship Troopers or The Running Man; where's the humanity in that?
| 505 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 9:59:31pm |
re: #472 laZardo
Because they, along with Norway, tend to be Human Right-y countries. I know Norway was one of the countries pushing early for intervention into Bosnia and Kosovo, with Sweden giving diplomatic support, and later doing peace-keeping.
Nothing unusual about this except the Sweden got so pissed at Qaddafi they decided to do aggressive action. The first time since the Battle of Leipzig in 1814. I think this is the first time Gripens have been used in action.
Moreover, it's very popular in Sweden. 66% of the nation wanted to do some sort of action, and 7 of the 8 major parties agreed.
| 506 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:00:00pm |
| 507 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:00:11pm |
The Constitution spells it out pretty clear, that Congress' job is to provide for a Navy whose primary job is to protect commerce and put down piracy (two sides of the same coin), as well as a standing Army in times of war only. There's nothing in there about an Air Force, about strategic arms, about 100+ military bases on foreign soil, or any of a number of other defense spending items that we pay for on a yearly basis.
So again, do we really want to argue what the Constitution does or doesn't say should be funded?
| 508 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:00:15pm |
re: #478 Dark_Falcon
Medicare isn't part of the Constitution, nor are other types of social spending.
Right, it just says "provide for the common welfare". By that extension, Air force is unconstitutional because it doesn't say 'Air Force' in the constitution, only defense. Silly Founding Fathers, why didn't they think of flying war machines?
| 509 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:01:37pm |
| 510 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:02:19pm |
re: #508 Spocomptonite
Right, it just says "provide for the common welfare". By that extension, Air force is unconstitutional because it doesn't say 'Air Force' in the constitution, only defense. Silly Founding Fathers, why didn't they think of flying war machines?
The Constitution says nothing about no-bid contracts, either.
But you will never find a con arguing against them.
Maybe if we called war "a government program" they'd finally consider cutting it.
| 511 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:02:44pm |
re: #507 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
The Constitution spells it out pretty clear, that Congress' job is to provide for a Navy whose primary job is to protect commerce and put down piracy (two sides of the same coin), as well as a standing Army in times of war only. There's nothing in there about an Air Force, about strategic arms, about 100+ military bases on foreign soil, or any of a number of other defense spending items that we pay for on a yearly basis.
So again, do we really want to argue what the Constitution does or doesn't say should be funded?
Damn it. There goes the USAF and our aircraft carriers. Doesn't mention helicopters either. //
| 512 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:03:45pm |
I need to go to sleep.
Dark when you do the same.... please for the love of god f***ing THINK about the fact that you currently view war machines are more valuable/worthy of funding than caring for our sick and suffering.
I'm trying hard not to call you all sorts of nasty names, but that disgusts me.
America isn't fighting a war for our survival right now, America isn't even at war with any other nation on earth at the moment, just with various rag tag groups.
Do you want us to become a western version of Prussia/Sparta?
| 513 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:04:08pm |
re: #510 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
The Constitution says nothing about no-bid contracts, either.
But you will never find a con arguing against them.
Maybe if we called war "a government program" they'd finally consider cutting it.
I'm looking for the part where we can create secret private armies like Blackwater (Xe) that are outside the normal functions of open government. Also no bid. Could you help me find that please?
//
| 514 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:04:30pm |
re: #512 jamesfirecat
Do you want us to become a western version of Prussia/Sparta?
That would be simply madness.
| 515 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:04:46pm |
re: #509 Dark_Falcon
Not hardly. Just a PIMF.
But why pretend to care about people thrown to the wolves?
Just so long as Xe and that dumb Erik Prince Amway bigot who runs it can cash in on their government handouts, who cares?
| 516 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:04:50pm |
re: #510 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
The Constitution says nothing about no-bid contracts, either.
But you will never find a con arguing against them.
Maybe if we called war "a government program" they'd finally consider cutting it.
They were against the DREAM act because it involved immigrants gaining citizenship, no matter how it might benefit our military.
| 517 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:05:19pm |
re: #505 ProLifeLiberal
Because they, along with Norway, tend to be Human Right-y countries. I know Norway was one of the countries pushing early for intervention into Bosnia and Kosovo, with Sweden giving diplomatic support, and later doing peace-keeping.
Nothing unusual about this except the Sweden got so pissed at Qaddafi they decided to do aggressive action. The first time since the Battle of Leipzig in 1814. I think this is the first time Gripens have been used in action.
Moreover, it's very popular in Sweden. 66% of the nation wanted to do some sort of action, and 7 of the 8 major parties agreed.
...but how exactly does the conflict in Libya relate to them? This whole "knows best" mentality suddenly smacks of neo-imperialism.
| 518 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:05:31pm |
| 519 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:05:32pm |
re: #514 laZardo
Your trying for a joke, aren't ya?
| 520 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:05:51pm |
re: #504 talon_262
Took the words right out of my mouth, SFZ.
Dark, while national defense is one the most important enumerated constitutional powers of the federal government, there's something severely screwed up about promoting military spending to the exclusion of almost everything else? It's so dystopian, it sounds like Starship Troopers or The Running Man; where's the humanity in that?
At least in Starship Troopers the amount of military spending was proportional to the threat they faced.
| 521 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:05:55pm |
re: #511 Gus 802
Damn it. There goes the USAF and our aircraft carriers. Doesn't mention helicopters either. //
Or computers!!!
army.gov servers are unconstitutional!!!
| 522 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:05:56pm |
re: #514 laZardo
That would be simply madness.
Also, if we become Sparta, it's going to be hell on all these folks that have been promoting the nuclear family and fussing about homosexuality. They were not supportive of the one, and quite cheerful about the other.
| 523 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:06:09pm |
re: #508 Spocomptonite
Right, it just says "provide for the common welfare". By that extension, Air force is unconstitutional because it doesn't say 'Air Force' in the constitution, only defense. Silly Founding Fathers, why didn't they think of flying war machines?
They were so behind the times they didn't even mention dirigibles, balloons and biplanes. No submarines either.
//
| 524 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:06:31pm |
re: #520 jamesfirecat
At least in Starship Troopers the amount of military spending was proportional to the threat they faced.
ALthough, as Cracked.com points out, the methods used to fight that threat are perfectly ridiculous.
| 525 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:06:33pm |
re: #500 freetoken
Damnit Freetoken! Now you have me wishing I had my own bread maker. See what you've done? Desire is the root of all evil, and you have tempted me into it!!! Curse thee!!!
Hmm... I think I'll try to bribe my mom into making me some fresh bread.
| 526 |
MittDoesNotCompute Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:07:36pm |
re: #524 SanFranciscoZionist
ALthough, as Cracked.com points out, the methods used to fight that threat are perfectly ridiculous.
Like no armored vehicles, IIRC...
| 527 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:07:37pm |
re: #516 Spocomptonite
They were against the DREAM act because it involved immigrants gaining citizenship, no matter how it might benefit our military.
They hate the DREAM act because it means more competition.
They H-A-T-E competition in all its forms. When the government doesn't put their interests first über alles and everyone else second, watch them cry oppression in a hot second.
| 528 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:07:39pm |
re: #520 jamesfirecat
At least in Starship Troopers the amount of military spending was proportional to the threat they faced.
Are you trying to get me riled up?
| 529 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:07:46pm |
re: #524 SanFranciscoZionist
ALthough, as Cracked.com points out, the methods used to fight that threat are perfectly ridiculous.
That's because the movie is nothing but a pale translation of the book itself. The actual weapons in the book would have been far more believable, but of course it wouldn't have been as flashy for the actors to be stuck in walking tanks for the majority of the film.
| 530 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:08:08pm |
OK, once we land on the beach our first objective is to start handing out cash to the local tribal leaders. Now, see that warehouse over there? It's stocked with billion of dollars of US cash which will be air dropped by 3 C-17s at a specified drop zone...
//
| 531 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:08:08pm |
re: #526 talon_262
Like no armored vehicles, IIRC...
The advanced infantry tactic of running bunched up as a mob.
| 532 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:08:41pm |
re: #529 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
That's because the movie is nothing but a pale translation of the book itself. The actual weapons in the book would have been far more believable, but of course it wouldn't have been as flashy for the actors to be stuck in walking tanks for the majority of the film.
The Iron Man movies prove you could pull that off now.
| 533 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:08:54pm |
re: #524 SanFranciscoZionist
ALthough, as Cracked.com points out, the methods used to fight that threat are perfectly ridiculous.
Only in the movie.
| 534 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:09:04pm |
re: #517 laZardo
Again, it doesn't relate to them. They got upset about a tyrant trying to kill his own people, and decided to take action.
Really, accusing Sweden of imperialism? They haven't had an empire since the 1700's. Not only that, but they have been astoundingly neutral, not getting involved in either World War.
Same goes for Norway, who only became independent in 1905. Before that, they were constantly under Danish or Swedish control, for about 590 years.
| 535 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:09:07pm |
Screw free education! We have a land mine industry to support. And useless bloated programs like the overweight and overdesigned F-35.
| 537 |
engineer cat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:09:37pm |
re: #497 Dark_Falcon
Medicare as we know it will end, that much is certain. It's rate of growth cannot be sustained. Reform is inevitable, and its conservatives who will have the task of making sure the resulting reforms contain costs. That said, such reforms should be done with an eye of providing as much value as can be obtained. I have intention of throwing people to the wolves, but the program must be greatly altered.
democrats can talk like that too - all you have to do is pretend that you are pronouncing difficult home truths:
the american military as we know it will end, that much is certain. It's rate of growth cannot be sustained. We can no longer afford multi-billion dollar weapons systems that we never use and often aren't even requested by the military, and we certainly can't afford military bases in germany, japan, and even diego garcia in the indian ocean, which we funnel money into year after year with no explanation, accountability, or apparent benefit. i have no intention of throwing the ten million or so military personnell or those employed by military contractors to the wolves - although their jobs are created by the government and paid for by our tax dollars, so they're not real jobs like those created by the private sector - but our military must be greatly altered
| 538 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:10:04pm |
re: #508 Spocomptonite
Right, it just says "provide for the common welfare". By that extension, Air force is unconstitutional because it doesn't say 'Air Force' in the constitution, only defense. Silly Founding Fathers, why didn't they think of flying war machines?
I thought "common welfare" meant infrastructure, not necessarily medical care or unemployment insurance. There is a difference between "rights" and "entitlements".
We as a society have decided that "entitlements" are worth the investment, IIRC, even tho it is not covered by the Constitution.
| 539 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:10:05pm |
re: #532 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
The Iron Man movies prove you could pull that off now.
Yeah, which is why there's a possibility one day that it might be remade properly. Hell, they're redoing Judge Dredd and it's looking...well, more authentic visually.
| 540 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:10:54pm |
re: #539 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Yeah, which is why there's a possibility one day that it might be remade properly. Hell, they're redoing Judge Dredd and it's looking...well, more authentic visually.
TWENTY YEARS!
I AM... THEEE LAW!
| 541 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:10:58pm |
re: #535 Gus 802
Screw free education! We have a land mine industry to support. And useless bloated programs like the overweight and overdesigned F-35.
Letting in all these other people into my children's school is COMMUNISM....what about MY civil rights!!!!!
Guess who else wanted Free Education!!
/dumb conservative clichés
| 542 |
darthstar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:11:49pm |
I see Boehner failed to get enough votes for his master plan yet again...poor orange bastard...fucker can't seem do do anything right. My heart bleeds for him...actually, it doesn't...but it does fart in his general direction.
| 543 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:12:04pm |
re: #512 jamesfirecat
I need to go to sleep.
Do you want us to become a western version of Prussia/Sparta?
I don't see that as the choice. And I have to go to bed as well.
| 544 |
engineer cat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:12:23pm |
re: #537 engineer dog
although, dark, i agree with most of what you said
i only wish more republicans would take medicare reform suggested by democrats more seriously - such as allowing negotiation with the drug companies for drug benefits, and other cost control measure such as those that canada has been so successful with
| 545 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:12:30pm |
re: #540 jamesfirecat
TWENTY YEARS!
I AM... THEEE LAW!
Respect the badge, he earned it with his blood.
Fear the gun, your sentence may be death because...
| 546 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:12:43pm |
re: #537 engineer dog
but our military must be greatly altered
| 547 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:12:53pm |
re: #535 Gus 802
Screw free education! We have a land mine industry to support. And useless bloated programs like the overweight and overdesigned F-35.
You'll eat those words when the Rooskies invade Alaska and start Dubya Dubya Three.
| 548 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:13:34pm |
re: #527 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I told my grandma, a long time Republican, about the DREAM act and how the R's voted it down. She was surprised, she thought that would be something the party would strongly be in favor of.
I told her that the Republican Party she grew up with ain't the same party today.
| 549 |
darthstar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:13:55pm |
re: #547 negativ
You'll eat those words when the Rooskies invade Alaska and start Dubya Dubya Three.
Dubya Dubya Three? Sounds like the names of Palin's next four grandchildren.
| 550 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:14:12pm |
re: #547 negativ
You'll eat those words when the Rooskies invade Alaska and start Dubya Dubya Three.
Our boys kicked the Reds out of Anchorage.
| 551 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:14:23pm |
re: #545 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Respect the badge, he earned it with his blood.
Fear the gun, your sentence may be death because...
The last time I heard that, Scott Ian had hair.
| 552 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:14:37pm |
| 553 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:14:55pm |
re: #529 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
That's because the movie is nothing but a pale translation of the book itself. The actual weapons in the book would have been far more believable, but of course it wouldn't have been as flashy for the actors to be stuck in walking tanks for the majority of the film.
I don't like the book, but it was pushed on me by my father, who is far more of a military fan than I.
| 554 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:15:00pm |
re: #545 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Respect the badge, he earned it with his blood.
Fear the gun, your sentence may be death because...
| 555 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:15:00pm |
| 556 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:15:20pm |
re: #534 ProLifeLiberal
We (neither US nor Sweden) just don't need another military campaign right now. Gus' #530 also hits it on the head.
| 557 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:15:28pm |
| 558 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:15:31pm |
re: #541 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Letting in all these other people into my children's school is COMMUNISM...what about MY civil rights!!!
Guess who else wanted Free Education!!
/dumb conservative clichés
It's ridiculous. They tried to make an all in one fighter/attack aircraft when they could have used existing aircraft for and extended period of time. The Harriers could have been updated to provide V/STOL capabilities into this century. The Navy could have gotten all F-35 Super Hornets. And so on. Instead we were suckered into this future Hangar Queen which is still in development. Oh but they'll cry that the two aircraft I mentioned aren't STEALTH! Yeah, those AQ and Taliban really have sophisticated radar. We already have enough F-22s to cover that including many more B-2 bombers for STEALTH bombing missions. And all of this when the real future lies with UAVs.
| 560 |
darthstar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:16:04pm |
| 561 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:16:25pm |
| 562 |
jamesfirecat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:16:39pm |
re: #543 Dark_Falcon
I don't see that as the choice. And I have to go to bed as well.
What do you see the choice being?
We can either put our military or our people/social programs first.... I think it should be our social programs/people.
I don't want to put words in your mouth but Dark I think you've said it several times over that you put our military first.
Give my regards to Ares when you offer up the next round of sacrificial tax cuts.
| 563 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:16:51pm |
re: #560 darthstar
Americans too.
But ours is a patriotic red, like cherry pie, not the evil red of communist oppression.
| 564 |
MittDoesNotCompute Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:16:58pm |
re: #418 ProLifeLiberal
True, but it does give pause.
Also, the fact that we are going to be replacing the various jets in the Air Force with the massively dysfunction F-35 is an issue.
Can that stupid thing, and talk to one of our European Allies about getting a modified version of one of their fighters. The Russians used the same basic design (SU-27) for 20-30 years, and much of the tech and parts in their new fighter come from that family.
We need to do the same sort of thing. We can branch out and make more advanced the F-15, F-16, and F-18.
While I'm all about cool military tech, which the F-35 and F-22 are, there has to be a point where someone rationally looks at these programs to make sure they still make sense to continue.
| 565 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:17:08pm |
re: #551 negativ
Quicker on the draw. I concede.
| 566 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:17:17pm |
re: #538 ggt
I thought "common welfare" meant infrastructure, not necessarily medical care or unemployment insurance. There is a difference between "rights" and "entitlements".
We as a society have decided that "entitlements" are worth the investment, IIRC, even tho it is not covered by the Constitution.
But this is where we get into issues--'national defense' does not necessarily mean a giant offensive military force, 'general welfare' does not necessarily mean unemployment insurance. The Founders would probably have found those excessively expensive and alien ideas. But both are broad, general commissions that we have developed ideas for over the decades.
So simply saying 'it's not in the Constitution' is insufficient.
| 567 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:17:19pm |
re: #558 Gus 802
And all of this when the real future lies with UCAVs.
/acronym nazism
//godwin's law, check
| 568 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:18:05pm |
re: #547 negativ
You'll eat those words when the Rooskies invade Alaska and start Dubya Dubya Three.
Sarah will return to take control of the Alaskan National Guard, and run them off the the property with snowmobiles. 'Twill be a famous victory.
| 569 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:18:13pm |
re: #555 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Remember the goatee?
Not nearly as well as I remember Billy Milano and SOD.
| 570 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:18:37pm |
| 571 |
darthstar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:18:57pm |
re: #570 SanFranciscoZionist
Just about everyone, really. Except for Mr. Spock.
The baby book writer?
| 572 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:18:57pm |
re: #563 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
But ours is a patriotic red, like cherry pie, not the evil red of communist oppression.
Iiiiick.
| 573 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:19:12pm |
re: #537 engineer dog
the Victorian-era nuclear family as we know it will end, that much is certain. It's rate of growth, propped up by unearned social status, cannot be sustained. We can no longer afford multi-billion dollar tax benefits that often aren't even requested by straight couples, and we certainly can't afford marriage tax bonuses which we funnel money into year after year with no explanation, accountability, or apparent benefit except throwing movement conservatism a bone. i have no intention of throwing Republican values voters, frightened of their own shadows, to the wolves but our ideas about marriage and family must be greatly altered! ///
| 574 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:19:22pm |
re: #569 negativ
Not nearly as well as I remember Billy Milano and SOD.
Saw them in Holland in '99. Felt like I was a teenager again.
| 575 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:19:33pm |
Seems we are not the only one with Budget issues.
| 576 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:19:56pm |
| 577 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:19:56pm |
re: #564 talon_262
While I'm all about cool military tech, which the F-35 and F-22 are, there has to be a point where someone rationally looks at these programs to make sure they still make sense to continue.
They're not. Well, the F-22 is good for air defense. And at least it's already been through the mill. The F-35 is bloated in more ways than one. And as I mentioned UCAVs can more than do the job in STEALTH bombing roles. They also don't require the massive training costs. I hate to see the pilot role go but that's the future of air combat. Pilotless "drones."
| 578 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:20:23pm |
re: #573 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
the Victorian-era nuclear family as we know it will end, that much is certain. It's rate of growth, propped up by unearned social status, cannot be sustained. We can no longer afford multi-billion dollar tax benefits that often aren't even requested by straight couples, and we certainly can't afford marriage tax bonuses which we funnel money into year after year with no explanation, accountability, or apparent benefit except throwing movement conservatism a bone. i have no intention of throwing Republican values voters, frightened of their own shadows, to the wolves but our ideas about marriage and family must be greatly altered! ///
Victorian-Era Nuclear Family was a myth during the Victorian era.
| 579 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:20:54pm |
re: #544 engineer dog
although, dark, i agree with most of what you said
i only wish more republicans would take medicare reform suggested by democrats more seriously - such as allowing negotiation with the drug companies for drug benefits, and other cost control measure such as those that canada has been so successful with
One thing Medicare Part D, courtesy President Bush (R - Dimbulb), did not allow.
At least there's no more stupid donut hole. Those are a great way to ensure poor elderly citizens.
| 580 |
MittDoesNotCompute Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:21:04pm |
re: #497 Dark_Falcon
Medicare as we know it will end, that much is certain. It's rate of growth cannot be sustained. Reform is inevitable, and its conservatives who will have the task of making sure the resulting reforms contain costs. That said, such reforms should be done with an eye of providing as much value as can be obtained. I have intention of throwing people to the wolves, but the program must be greatly altered.
If you're putting your faith in the stark raving mad "conservative" RWNJs that currently have the GOP by the short hairs, I have a couple of bridges in NYC for sale really cheap.
| 581 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:21:34pm |
re: #578 ggt
Victorian-Era Nuclear Family was a myth during the Victorian era.
People do enjoy clinging to their made-up myths, it's true.
| 583 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:22:57pm |
| 584 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:22:59pm |
re: #581 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
"My grandparents didn't have to lock their doors at night. DECLINE!!"
That one's my favorite.
| 585 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:23:08pm |
re: #556 laZardo
Except we are not talking about the same level of involvement.
Not every war and intervention is the same. I know what dark things the US did in the Philippines. However, I would like to ask for benefit of the doubt on these things. Especially if a nation like Sweden decides to get involved.
Sweden has a better record than us. If you don't trust what we do, trust them.
I do that.
| 586 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:23:50pm |
re: #582 ggt
An abomination in the eyes of Gravel. Downding!
| 587 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:24:06pm |
Ok, say this three times fast.
This
This
This
Bat-Beckoning Beacon.
| 588 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:24:30pm |
| 590 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:25:31pm |
| 591 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:25:31pm |
re: #340 Lidane
I don't know what world you're living in, but it's not the real one.
This isn't theoretical. It's what I see. I'm just reporting facts.
| 592 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:27:12pm |
re: #585 ProLifeLiberal
Except we are not talking about the same level of involvement.
Not every war and intervention is the same. I know what dark things the US did in the Philippines. However, I would like to ask for benefit of the doubt on these things. Especially if a nation like Sweden decides to get involved.
Sweden has a better record than us. If you don't trust what we do, trust them.
I do that.
Personally, as a Filipino, I believe the US influence was ultimately a mixed bag. Marcos sponsorship aside, the ability to speak English turned out to be a potential economic goldmine which I think is hampered by nationalist pro-Tagalog sentiment.
Ultimately though, even with geopolitical realities I figured that there were lessons to be learned from the colonial and post-colonial experience. The world doesn't need neo-colonialism, and NATO-proxy is no exception.
Sweden would not sponsor it if they don't have something to gain. Like maybe a safe supply of oil that wasn't from Russia (which, unfortunately, like to be douches by using it as leverage.)
| 593 |
engineer cat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:27:27pm |
Nuclear Family
my own definition of a nuclear family is one that's so emotionally repressed and controlling that it's practically radioactive
| 594 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:27:47pm |
| 596 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:28:00pm |
We are now, officially, living in a Sci-Fi Novel.
| 597 |
The Ghost of a Flea Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:29:39pm |
So I'm supposed to trust the conservatives who won't alter Medicare Part D, fund abstinence-only sex ed in spite of the program's flat success rate, "save money" by hiring private prisons that consistently charge for processing misdemeanor-level offenders as though they were high-risk felons, and dump barrelfuls of money into corn ethanol fuel enrichment? The people that don't care about CBO projections if the numbers don't fit their ideology? Who are intent on slashing funding to two of the most efficient programs in terms of present-cost versus future expense (PP and WIC) because of their "values"?
These are the people that are going to make the intelligent decisions about how to fix the budget?
Actually, before you ever get to that...how am I supposed to believe in the "small government" ideal when it's advocates have through my entire lifetime said one thing and done something else entirely?
| 598 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:30:04pm |
re: #593 engineer dog
Nuclear Family
my own definition of a nuclear family is one that's so emotionally repressed and controlling that it's practically radioactive
So, you are talking about the Victorian one?
| 599 |
Tigger2005 Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:30:16pm |
Thank God for sexy naked ladies and rum. Without them, I would not be sane.
| 600 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:30:17pm |
re: #584 Slumbering Behemoth
"My grandparents didn't have to lock their doors at night. DECLINE!!"
Multiculturalism! PC! Blaaaah!!!
Most Europeans look back on the 1950s as a good time. Our homes were safe, to the point where many people did not bother to lock their doors. Public schools were generally excellent, and their problems were things like talking in class and running in the halls. Most men treated women like ladies, and most ladies devoted their time and effort to
making good homes, rearing their children well and helping their communities through volunteer work. Children grew up in two–parent households, and the mother was there to meet the child when he came home from school. Entertainment was something the whole family could enjoy.
--Race-butthurt Norwegian manifesto, page 12
| 601 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:30:29pm |
re: #596 ggt
Avatars are typically used to represent players in online games such as World of Warcraft and in virtual communities like Second Life.
Cue cries of "fursecution." XD
| 602 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:31:08pm |
re: #596 ggt
We are now, officially, living in a Sci-Fi Novel.
Can we choose which one? Maybe one of Heinlein's later books with hot redheads?
| 603 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:31:24pm |
re: #600 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Multiculturalism! PC! Blaaah!!!
--Race-butthurt Norwegian manifesto, page 12
He isn't old enough to know that. I guess there were no orphans or drunks in the 1950's--huh?
| 604 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:32:59pm |
I wish I could remember (I know, I say that alot). I read one Sci-Fi Novel in which the detective had to go into a virtual world and work up the levels to find the criminal. It was a Steampunk Virtual World, although not a a SteamPunk novel.
Very cool.
| 605 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:33:36pm |
| 606 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:33:45pm |
I keep hearing about how we need a "strong" defense, but keep coming up with no clue as to who we're supposed to be defending ourselves against.
The Russians? They're lucky if they can string together enough money to keep half their air force operational, let alone launching a major strategic operation against us.
The Chinese? They're making too much money off us to go to war. And even if they wanted to, they're still decades away from having the military hardware to invade us.
North Korea? One half of the country is starving, the other half is eating the first half. And they're relying upon Chinese hardware that's at least 1-2 decades out of date. Call me when they can build an ICBM that doesn't explode on the launchpad.
Iran? No argument that they're on a quest for atomic fire, but they've been on that quest in one form or another since '79. It's a question of whether it'll eventually bear fruit in time to stave off the next revolution.
Al-Q or another number of terrorist groups? Again, what good is an F-22 against an enemy that has no fighters? A tank against an army that considers technicals the height of mobile firepower? What good are cruise missiles against an enemy who can move his base of operations as quickly as tearing down a tent and running?
The face of warfare changed in 1991. So far, it seems our military is 20 years behind schedule.
| 607 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:33:50pm |
re: #603 ggt
He isn't old enough to know that. I guess there were no orphans or drunks in the 1950's--huh?
All the more reason why they believe in it.
"My father and uncles got to kick around, rape and murder whoever they wanted!!! Now the gubbernmint is STOPPING ME, waaaah, boo hoo!"
| 608 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:34:41pm |
re: #603 ggt
He isn't old enough to know that. I guess there were no orphans or drunks in the 1950's--huh?
The 50s. Peaches and cream. Rainbows and sunshine. No voting rights or civil rights for blacks. A military draft. Dying or being maimed in the Korean War. Sexism galore. A Cold War. Religious repression especially for atheists (i.e. because of "atheistic Communism"). Completely unsafe automobiles. Secret wars...
| 609 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:36:24pm |
re: #573 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
the Victorian-era nuclear family as we know it will end, that much is certain. It's rate of growth, propped up by unearned social status, cannot be sustained. We can no longer afford multi-billion dollar tax benefits that often aren't even requested by straight couples, and we certainly can't afford marriage tax bonuses which we funnel money into year after year with no explanation, accountability, or apparent benefit except throwing movement conservatism a bone. i have no intention of throwing Republican values voters, frightened of their own shadows, to the wolves but our ideas about marriage and family must be greatly altered! ///
Marriage tax bonus? A married couple, two earners, equal earnings, pays more tax than it would if they could split the dependents and file each as single.
As to ideas about marriage and family, you are welcome to yours but the fact is that marriage is an ancient human institution and its longevity suggests that it's a pretty good arrangement for the populations that have stuck with it for millennia. In a rough and ready way, it aligns individual interests with the wider societal interest in having a next generation that is fairly well socialized, fairly well educated, and fairly well provided for.
This isn't just a Western thing. The Chinese set great store by marriage and family, for instance. And they seem to reap the rewards. There is a role for the State---universal, free, compulsory public education is a big improvement on the old system of apprenticing children, for instance. But still, marriage continues as part of the answer to how to keep a civilization up and running.
| 610 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:36:52pm |
re: #608 Gus 802
The 50s. Peaches and cream. Rainbows and sunshine. No voting rights or civil rights for blacks. A military draft. Dying or being maimed in the Korean War. Sexism galore. A Cold War. Religious repression especially for atheists (i.e. because of "atheistic Communism"). Completely unsafe automobiles. Secret wars...
Ok, maybe for the cars.
| 611 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:37:21pm |
re: #592 laZardo
True to a point. Of course, in the case of the Philippines, I'm thinking much further back than Marcos.
| 612 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:37:32pm |
re: #608 Gus 802
The 50s. Peaches and cream. Rainbows and sunshine. No voting rights or civil rights for blacks. A military draft. Dying or being maimed in the Korean War. Sexism galore. A Cold War. Religious repression especially for atheists (i.e. because of "atheistic Communism"). Completely unsafe automobiles. Secret wars...
Why do you think the Fallout games are so popular?
/
| 613 |
lostlakehiker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:38:22pm |
re: #597 The Ghost of a Flea
So I'm supposed to trust the conservatives who won't alter Medicare Part D, fund abstinence-only sex ed in spite of the program's flat success rate, "save money" by hiring private prisons that consistently charge for processing misdemeanor-level offenders as though they were high-risk felons, and dump barrelfuls of money into corn ethanol fuel enrichment? The people that don't care about CBO projections if the numbers don't fit their ideology? Who are intent on slashing funding to two of the most efficient programs in terms of present-cost versus future expense (PP and WIC) because of their "values"?
These are the people that are going to make the intelligent decisions about how to fix the budget?
Actually, before you ever get to that...how am I supposed to believe in the "small government" ideal when it's advocates have through my entire lifetime said one thing and done something else entirely?
No. Don't trust them. Every government has got to be watched, and punished at the polls as appropriate. Conservatives are human and easy prey for the blandishments of power. All power tends to corrupt, etc.
| 614 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:38:23pm |
re: #611 ProLifeLiberal
True to a point. Of course, in the case of the Philippines, I'm thinking much further back than Marcos.
1898?
| 615 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:38:34pm |
So, Interplay's "Fallout Online" (aka FO:OL) appears to have been green lighted.
I predict it will be the most ridiculously, heavily populated post-nuke-apoc world in the entire history of post-nuke-apoc worlds.
I also predict that this will be just another MMORPG, in a long line of MMORPGs, that I completely avoid.
| 616 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:38:36pm |
re: #587 ggt
Ok, say this three times fast.
This
This
This
Bat-Beckoning Beacon.
Not the pollinator we deserved, but the one we needed.
| 617 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:38:56pm |
re: #611 ProLifeLiberal
True to a point. Of course, in the case of the Philippines, I'm thinking much further back than Marcos.
Oh yeah. It goes "kill everyone over ten" deep. But even if the methods of conquering have changed, even if we're only going for "spheres of influence" instead of outright land-grabs, the mentality is still the same.
| 618 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:40:18pm |
re: #609 lostlakehiker
As to ideas about marriage and family, you are welcome to yours
Thanks!
but the fact is that marriage is an ancient human institution and its longevity suggests that it's a pretty good arrangement for the populations that have stuck with it for millennia.
Lol oh brother.
No need to get defensive or upset. Nobody is coming for your precious marriage traditions. They have not been altered in any way by interracial marriage. //
| 619 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:40:54pm |
re: #609 lostlakehiker
Marriage tax bonus? A married couple, two earners, equal earnings, pays more tax than it would if they could split the dependents and file each as single.
As to ideas about marriage and family, you are welcome to yours but the fact is that marriage is an ancient human institution and its longevity suggests that it's a pretty good arrangement for the populations that have stuck with it for millennia. In a rough and ready way, it aligns individual interests with the wider societal interest in having a next generation that is fairly well socialized, fairly well educated, and fairly well provided for.
This isn't just a Western thing. The Chinese set great store by marriage and family, for instance. And they seem to reap the rewards. There is a role for the State---universal, free, compulsory public education is a big improvement on the old system of apprenticing children, for instance. But still, marriage continues as part of the answer to how to keep a civilization up and running.
What the hell ever you do, don't ever read any anthropology.
| 620 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:41:07pm |
re: #615 Slumbering Behemoth
So, Interplay's "Fallout Online" (aka FO:OL) appears to have been green lighted.
I predict it will be the most ridiculously, heavily populated post-nuke-apoc world in the entire history of post-nuke-apoc worlds.
I also predict that this will be just another MMORPG, in a long line of MMORPGs, that I completely avoid.
DON'T SHIT ON THE DREAM MAN!
| 621 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:42:04pm |
re: #602 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Can we choose which one? Maybe one of Heinlein's later books with hot redheads?
Oh, God. Nothing by Heinlein.
Nothing by Octavia Butler, either, if it's OK with you all!
| 622 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:42:12pm |
re: #615 Slumbering Behemoth
If I still can't play as a Deathclaw...
/wait, the sentient ones all died off except for that one in F2?
| 623 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:42:22pm |
re: #608 Gus 802
The 50s. Peaches and cream. Rainbows and sunshine. No voting rights or civil rights for blacks. A military draft. Dying or being maimed in the Korean War. Sexism galore. A Cold War. Religious repression especially for atheists (i.e. because of "atheistic Communism"). Completely unsafe automobiles. Secret wars...
And if conservatives like Anders Breivik don't get all of the above back, they will kill children in protest.
Sux to be him...
| 624 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:42:33pm |
re: #608 Gus 802
The 50s. Peaches and cream. Rainbows and sunshine. No voting rights or civil rights for blacks. A military draft. Dying or being maimed in the Korean War. Sexism galore. A Cold War. Religious repression especially for atheists (i.e. because of "atheistic Communism"). Completely unsafe automobiles. Secret wars...
Whoa, whoa, whoa... Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, okay.
/again, only kidding, ladies
| 625 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:43:22pm |
re: #615 Slumbering Behemoth
So, Interplay's "Fallout Online" (aka FO:OL) appears to have been green lighted.
I predict it will be the most ridiculously, heavily populated post-nuke-apoc world in the entire history of post-nuke-apoc worlds.
I also predict that this will be just another MMORPG, in a long line of MMORPGs, that I completely avoid.
Eh? Interplay's been fighting with Bethesda over the rights to the online game for the better part of the last three years. Where have you been?
| 626 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:43:23pm |
re: #613 lostlakehiker
No. Don't trust them. Every government has got to be watched, and punished at the polls as appropriate. Conservatives are human and easy prey for the blandishments of power. All power tends to corrupt, etc.
I don't trust any politican.
| 627 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:44:21pm |
re: #625 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Eh? Interplay's been fighting with Bethesda over the rights to the online game for the better part of the last three years. Where have you been?
STILL WAITING ON DESCENT 4 HERE.
I:
| 628 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:44:39pm |
re: #623 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
And if conservatives like Anders Breivik don't get all of the above back, they will kill children in protest.
Sux to be him...
Not in his mind, there, he is a god.
| 629 |
engineer cat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:44:41pm |
re: #605 ggt
Sorry, I mean Victorian wanna-be.
oh, i think toxic families can happen in any society
i grew up in the Divorce Era of the 60s, and my own family turned out to be made of highly fissionable material
| 630 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:45:04pm |
re: #626 ggt
I don't trust any politican.
The one problem with Anonymous/Wikileaks/etc. is that they are still vulnerable to the same human condition as politicians - ego.
| 631 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:45:27pm |
| 633 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:45:45pm |
re: #618 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Not so great, actually.
| 634 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:46:08pm |
re: #627 laZardo
STILL WAITING ON DESCENT 4 HERE.
I:
I'm waiting on Half-Life 2: Episode 3 here. Figuring a release date of Dec 21, 2012.
| 635 |
MittDoesNotCompute Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:46:48pm |
| 636 |
engineer cat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:47:20pm |
re: #609 lostlakehiker
Marriage tax bonus? A married couple, two earners, equal earnings, pays more tax than it would if they could split the dependents and file each as single.
As to ideas about marriage and family, you are welcome to yours but the fact is that marriage is an ancient human institution and its longevity suggests that it's a pretty good arrangement for the populations that have stuck with it for millennia. In a rough and ready way, it aligns individual interests with the wider societal interest in having a next generation that is fairly well socialized, fairly well educated, and fairly well provided for.
This isn't just a Western thing. The Chinese set great store by marriage and family, for instance. And they seem to reap the rewards. There is a role for the State---universal, free, compulsory public education is a big improvement on the old system of apprenticing children, for instance. But still, marriage continues as part of the answer to how to keep a civilization up and running.
i can agree with that, and i wish certain political entities would think of american society as a family, and cease to insist that it be run like a business
| 637 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:48:55pm |
re: #609 lostlakehiker
Marriage tax bonus? A married couple, two earners, equal earnings, pays more tax than it would if they could split the dependents and file each as single.
As to ideas about marriage and family, you are welcome to yours but the fact is that marriage is an ancient human institution and its longevity suggests that it's a pretty good arrangement for the populations that have stuck with it for millennia. In a rough and ready way, it aligns individual interests with the wider societal interest in having a next generation that is fairly well socialized, fairly well educated, and fairly well provided for.
This isn't just a Western thing. The Chinese set great store by marriage and family, for instance. And they seem to reap the rewards. There is a role for the State---universal, free, compulsory public education is a big improvement on the old system of apprenticing children, for instance. But still, marriage continues as part of the answer to how to keep a civilization up and running.
BTW, the government benefits attached to legitimate marriage are just one more reason social cons are threatened by more people being able to get married (e.g. interracial couples, gay couples.)
The HATE competition and a widened pool of beneficiaries.
Put a different way, they think their own version of legitimate couples should get special rights. No rights for any other kind of couples, just their own.
| 638 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:49:11pm |
re: #620 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
DON'T SHIT ON THE DREAM MAN!
The dream was shat upon with FO:T, then buried with said shite with FO:BOS.
re: #625 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Eh? Interplay's been fighting with Bethesda over the rights to the online game for the better part of the last three years. Where have you been?
Where have I been? Right here, on the internet, following the pathetic decline of my favorite franchise over more than a decade. Oh, and the fighting is over. Interplay's FO:OL is going forward. That's new news.
| 639 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:49:28pm |
I admit it, I've been lucky. I grew-up in a two-parent-happily-married family. I like my marriage, it has been good for me and I hope for my kid.
As a result, it is difficult for me to appreciate any other situation. I haven't lived it.
I wish the best for all children. Mostly that they are wanted by at least two adults who have the resources and mental health to properly raise them.
Beyond that, I don't have any opinions.
| 640 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:49:54pm |
re: #606 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
I keep hearing about how we need a "strong" defense, but keep coming up with no clue as to who we're supposed to be defending ourselves against.
The Russians? They're lucky if they can string together enough money to keep half their air force operational, let alone launching a major strategic operation against us.
The Chinese? They're making too much money off us to go to war. And even if they wanted to, they're still decades away from having the military hardware to invade us.
North Korea? One half of the country is starving, the other half is eating the first half. And they're relying upon Chinese hardware that's at least 1-2 decades out of date. Call me when they can build an ICBM that doesn't explode on the launchpad.
Iran? No argument that they're on a quest for atomic fire, but they've been on that quest in one form or another since '79. It's a question of whether it'll eventually bear fruit in time to stave off the next revolution.
Al-Q or another number of terrorist groups? Again, what good is an F-22 against an enemy that has no fighters? A tank against an army that considers technicals the height of mobile firepower? What good are cruise missiles against an enemy who can move his base of operations as quickly as tearing down a tent and running?
The face of warfare changed in 1991. So far, it seems our military is 20 years behind schedule.
For me, it comes down to this: Why would anyone invade us? What would they gain? With the world as interconnected as it is, shooting at someone else is shooting at yourself, too. You'd have to be crazy to want to do that... which is why the modern world's greatest threat isn't a country, but the crazy guy with a bomb and fanatical ideology. Because you'd have to be crazy to not care about self-preservation.
| 641 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:50:08pm |
re: #615 Slumbering Behemoth
Damn it!
I'm on the Bethesda side of the divide. I've heard of what Interplay did with Fallout:Brotherhood of Steel. And other shenanigans.
Also, Libya page is up! Any critiques (as long as they aren't mean) are welcome.
| 642 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:50:25pm |
re: #628 ggt
Not in his mind, there, he is a god.
Well they all think that.
Lol here in reality, God's Gift is on his way to life in a single cell, pumped full of Haldol.
| 643 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:50:59pm |
There's a reason why people romanticize the 50s. That's around the time we started with the BS television propaganda about some fictional American life that never really existed and game shows.
| 644 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:51:04pm |
re: #638 Slumbering Behemoth
The dream was shat upon with FO:T, then buried with said shite with FO:BOS.
re: #625 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Where have I been? Right here, on the internet, following the pathetic decline of my favorite franchise over more than a decade. Oh, and the fighting is over. Interplay's FO:OL is going forward. That's new news.
Got a link to the story? This is the first I'm hearing of this.
| 645 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:51:17pm |
re: #641 ProLifeLiberal
Also, do I now Tweet Pages automatically?
Because Twitter tweeted it, and I don't remember doing so.
| 646 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:51:34pm |
re: #640 Spocomptonite
For me, it comes down to this: Why would anyone invade us? What would they gain? With the world as interconnected as it is, shooting at someone else is shooting at yourself, too. You'd have to be crazy to want to do that... which is why the modern world's greatest threat isn't a country, but the crazy guy with a bomb and fanatical ideology. Because you'd have to be crazy to not care about self-preservation.
I don't know, why would 11 guys fly planes into buildings?
Why would 1 man shoot children on an Island?
don't look for logic, look for emotion, greed and envy.
| 647 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:52:42pm |
re: #643 Gus 802
There's a reason why people romanticize the 50s. That's around the time we started with the BS television propaganda about some fictional American life that never really existed and game shows.
True, and why people get so fixated on the Vietnam War. We have Video to remember it by.
| 648 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:53:40pm |
| 649 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:54:01pm |
re: #645 ProLifeLiberal
Also, do I now Tweet Pages automatically?
Because Twitter tweeted it, and I don't remember doing so.
There's a tiny little check box at the bottom of the submission page that tells you if you want it tweeted or not.
| 650 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:54:44pm |
re: #641 ProLifeLiberal
Bethesda can bite a turd popsicle. I am not impressed.
| 651 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:54:45pm |
re: #646 ggt
I don't know, why would 11 guys fly planes into buildings?
Why would 1 man shoot children on an Island?
don't look for logic, look for emotion, greed and envy.
I don't think what happened on 9/11 is the same as pondering upon an invasion. Right now. There's nothing on the horizon.
| 652 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:55:00pm |
re: #647 ggt
And this even has a point today.
I didn't see the actual live news footage of 9/11 until last year(my teacher in Middle School refused to show it in Home Room, said it would hurt and scare us).
I did for Katrina.
Katrina had a much greater effect on me than 9/11.
| 653 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:55:46pm |
re: #643 Gus 802
There's a reason why people romanticize the 50s. That's around the time we started with the BS television propaganda about some fictional American life that never really existed and game shows.
Personally think a lot of the reason we romanticize the 50s is because the majority of folks talking about it were kids growing up during it and can only see it through the rose-colored glasses of nostalgia. I'm 27 and even I can recognize that the days of my youth, however "happy" they might seem upon reflection, were anything but "romantic."
| 654 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:56:57pm |
re: #633 Slumbering Behemoth
[Video]Not so great, actually.
This is old, but I think the Landover satire came from it
[Link: www.samesexmarriage.ca...]
12 Biblical Principles of Marriage
Marriage consists of one man and one or more women (Gen 4:19, 4:23, 26:34, 28:9, 29:26-30, 30:26, 31:17, 32:22, 36:2, 36:10, 37:2, Ex. 21:10, Judges 8:30, 1 Sam 1:2, 25:43, 27:3, 30:5, 30:18, 2 Sam 2:2, 3:2-5, 1 Chron 3:1-3, 4:5, 8:8, 14:3, 2 Chron 11:21, 13:21, 24:3).
Nothing prevents a man from taking on concubines in addition to the wife or wives he may already have (Gen 25:6, Judges 8:31, 2 Sam 5:13, 1 Kings 11:3, 1 Chron 3:9, 2 Chron 11:21, Dan 5:2-3).
A man might chose any woman he wants for his wife (Gen 6:2, Deut 21:11), provided only that she is not already another man’s wife (Lev 18:14-16, Deut. 22:30) or his [half-]sister (Lev 18:11, 20:17), nor the mother (Lev 20:14) or the sister (Lev 18:18) of a woman who is already his wife. The concept of a woman giving her consent to being married is foreign to the Biblical mindset.
If a woman cannot be proven to be a virgin at the time of marriage, she shall be stoned (Deut 22:13-21).
A rapist must marry his victim (Ex. 22:16, Deut. 22:28-29) - unless she was already a fiancé, in which case he should be put to death if he raped her in the country, but both of them killed if he raped her in town (Deut. 22:23-27).
If a man dies childless, his brother must marry the widow (Gen 38:6-10, Deut 25:5-10, Mark 12:19, Luke 20:28).
Women marry the man of their father’s choosing (Gen. 24:4, Josh.15:16-17, Judges 1:12-13, 12:9, 21:1, 1 Sam 17:25, 18:19, 1 Kings 2:21, 1 Chron 2:35, Jer 29:6, Dan 11:17).[Etc.]
rotfl
| 655 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:57:01pm |
re: #646 ggt
I don't know, why would 11 guys fly planes into buildings?
Why would 1 man shoot children on an Island?
don't look for logic, look for emotion, greed and envy.
Yeah, which exists on an individual level like I said. It doesn't exist for an entire nation of people. Nationalism isn't common anymore in the modern world, thank god. Except for Republicans and the corresponding right-wing Muslims.
| 656 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:57:09pm |
re: #650 Slumbering Behemoth
And I'm not impressed with Brotherhood of Steel, and to a lesser extent Tactics.
However, Fallout 3 has been a blast, and New Vegas looks even better, especially after the release of the Old World Blues DLC.
No DLC will ever be better than Old World Blues. For any game, anywhere.
| 657 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:58:34pm |
re: #650 Slumbering Behemoth
Besides, we already know (Based off of Brotherhood of Steel) that FO:OL will be a burning pile of poo. :P
| 658 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:58:44pm |
re: #648 Slumbering Behemoth
Really? Where have you been? :P
SB, that website's been up for awhile now. I know, I've got two newsletters still sitting in my email box from them. The most Interplay has churned out so far has been a couple screenshots of what they admitted was a very early build of the game, a bunch of concept art, and nothing else.
| 659 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:58:49pm |
re: #655 Spocomptonite
Yeah, which exists on an individual level like I said. It doesn't exist for an entire nation of people. Nationalism isn't common anymore in the modern world, thank god. Except for Republicans and the corresponding right-wing Muslims.
...
[wingnuts]GET THINGS STRAIT! Al Qaeda and the Taliban are LEFT WING LIBRULS!!11ty[/wingnuts]
| 660 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 10:59:16pm |
re: #659 Gus 802
...
[wingnuts]GET THINGS STRAIT! Al Qaeda and the Taliban are LEFT WING LIBRULS!!11ty[/wingnuts]
Oops!
GET THINGS STRAIT! Al Qaeda and the Taliban are LEFT WING LIBRULS!!11ty
| 661 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:00:04pm |
re: #639 ggt
I admit it, I've been lucky. I grew-up in a two-parent-happily-married family.
I did too (though that bar for what counts as happily married seems set very low, too low for my own taste.)
Turns out in my case, the experience was grossly overrated.
| 662 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:00:07pm |
re: #656 ProLifeLiberal
And I'm not impressed with Brotherhood of Steel, and to a lesser extent Tactics.
However, Fallout 3 has been a blast, and New Vegas looks even better, especially after the release of the Old World Blues DLC.
No DLC will ever be better than Old World Blues. For any game, anywhere.
Well, Interplay can bite that turd popsicle too for Tactics and BOS, and for selling off Fallout to a crap house like Bethesda.
New Vegas? Not developed by Bethesda.
| 663 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:00:30pm |
re: #653 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Personally think a lot of the reason we romanticize the 50s is because the majority of folks talking about it were kids growing up during it and can only see it through the rose-colored glasses of nostalgia. I'm 27 and even I can recognize that the days of my youth, however "happy" they might seem upon reflection, were anything but "romantic."
I romanticize the 80s.
...
I'm sorry ;_;
| 664 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:00:49pm |
re: #656 ProLifeLiberal
And I'm not impressed with Brotherhood of Steel, and to a lesser extent Tactics.
However, Fallout 3 has been a blast, and New Vegas looks even better, especially after the release of the Old World Blues DLC.
No DLC will ever be better than Old World Blues. For any game, anywhere.
"Hey, I have a rare Mojave snow globe. Just reach into my bread slot."
| 665 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:01:00pm |
re: #659 Gus 802
...
[wingnuts]GET THINGS STRAIT! Al Qaeda and the Taliban are LEFT WING LIBRULS!!11ty[/wingnuts]
They are progressive socialist kkk democrats!
MLK was a Republican!
| 666 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:02:13pm |
re: #662 Slumbering Behemoth
Well, Interplay can bite that turd popsicle too for Tactics and BOS, and for selling off Fallout to a crap house like Bethesda.
New Vegas? Not developed by Bethesda.
And buggier than hell, too. Obsidian's worked a thing of magic, too, making the game buggier with each new patch and DLC.
| 667 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:02:39pm |
re: #658 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Sorry, you're right. That one was a year old.
| 668 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:02:50pm |
re: #665 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
They are progressive socialist kkk democrats!
MLK was a Republican!
Robert Byrd was in teh KKK and teh DEMOCRAT PARTY voted against the Civil Rights Act!
| 669 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:04:11pm |
re: #663 laZardo
I romanticize the 80s.
...
I'm sorry ;_;
Your High-Drama 80s Keyboards Clip of the Day:
| 670 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:04:16pm |
re: #653 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Personally think a lot of the reason we romanticize the 50s is because the majority of folks talking about it were kids growing up during it and can only see it through the rose-colored glasses of nostalgia. I'm 27 and even I can recognize that the days of my youth, however "happy" they might seem upon reflection, were anything but "romantic."
Or we say, "this stuff didn't happen when I was growing up". When in reality, we were protected from it, were too young to realize it was going on, or were to busy being kids to pay attention.
| 671 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:04:49pm |
Al Qaeda and the Taliban! They dress like HIPPIES, smell like hippies, wear sandals and they smoke MARYJANE!!11ty They're HIPPIES DAMN IT. LEFT. WING. LIBRULS!! Why can't you people see this!!11ty
| 672 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:05:26pm |
re: #669 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Your High-Drama 80s Keyboards Clip of the Day:
[Video]
Again, you make me unleash Journey:
| 673 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:06:02pm |
re: #666 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
And buggier than hell, too. Obsidian's worked a thing of magic, too, making the game buggier with each new patch and DLC.
Hahahaha! The internet is making developers lazy.
Why, in my day, when Origin's Privateer had a game killing bug right near the end, the was nothing we could do about it, and WE LIKED IT!!!
| 674 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:06:42pm |
re: #672 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Again, you make me unleash Journey:
[Video]
OMG, I remember when that video was released.
| 675 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:06:53pm |
| 676 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:06:55pm |
re: #667 Slumbering Behemoth
Sorry, you're right. That one was a year old.
Like I said, it's old news. That site's been up since last year.
| 677 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:06:56pm |
re: #664 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Is that from our favorite toaster?
| 678 |
engineer cat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:07:27pm |
re: #654 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
in the old testament it says, "while you dally with younger wives, forget not the first wife of your youth, for she bore you your eldest son"
| 679 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:07:37pm |
re: #676 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Really? Fine, you win.
| 680 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:07:39pm |
re: #672 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Again, you make me unleash Journey:
[Video]
Lol I had that outfit. Sadly.
| 681 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:07:40pm |
re: #675 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Rotfl.
Did you see that dork robdouth from yesterday? Classic. He was hilarious.
Nope. What's that?
| 682 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:07:43pm |
Y'know, it's funny. I have Fallout 3. Mass effect 1 + 2. The Half-life series. Portal. Civilization 5
You know what games I played today?
-DOS Oregon Trail
-Civilization 2
-Railroad Tycoon 2
-Dwarf Fortress
-and the most frustrating 'game' of trying to get Homeworld to work on my computer, which is in my opinion is nothing less than the best game ever created relative to its time.
Sometimes the best things are the old things.
| 683 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:09:00pm |
re: #678 engineer dog
in the old testament it says, "while you dally with younger wives, forget not the first wife of your youth, for she bore you your eldest son"
Back when so many women and children died in childbirth, it made sense to have multiple wives. . . .
| 684 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:09:54pm |
re: #678 engineer dog
in the old testament it says, "while you dally with younger wives, forget not the first wife of your youth, for she bore you your eldest son"
Where?
| 685 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:10:03pm |
re: #682 Spocomptonite
Y'know, it's funny. I have Fallout 3. Mass effect 1 + 2. The Half-life series. Portal. Civilization 5
You know what games I played today?
-DOS Oregon Trail
-Civilization 2
-Railroad Tycoon 2
-Dwarf Fortress
-and the most frustrating 'game' of trying to get Homeworld to work on my computer, which is in my opinion is nothing less than the best game ever created relative to its time.Sometimes the best things are the old things.
My computer really can't play anything past 2007. :C
Thank God for GOG.com.
| 686 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:10:20pm |
re: #679 Slumbering Behemoth
Really? Fine, you win.
I'm not trying to be mean. I was actually kinda hopeful when it first started work that Interplay could come through and put out Fallout: Online. Problem is, Interplay is a twisted, hollow shell of the company it once was. It's been tettering on the edge of liquidation for years now, pumping out half-baked ports and selling off old franchises. Even if they managed to win the court battle and keep the rights, they have neither the money to finish the game or compete it against juggernauts like WoW and SW: The Old Republic.
| 687 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:10:25pm |
re: #677 ProLifeLiberal
Is that from our favorite toaster?
"Cursed electric heating filament! You are inadequate to my needs! Why, why, why was I not built with a death ray!"
| 688 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:10:38pm |
re: #682 Spocomptonite
Y'know, it's funny. I have Fallout 3. Mass effect 1 + 2. The Half-life series. Portal. Civilization 5
You know what games I played today?
-DOS Oregon Trail
-Civilization 2
-Railroad Tycoon 2
-Dwarf Fortress
-and the most frustrating 'game' of trying to get Homeworld to work on my computer, which is in my opinion is nothing less than the best game ever created relative to its time.Sometimes the best things are the old things.
Nothing beats a night around the player piano and a couple of cool sarsaparillas with some hard candy.
//
| 689 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:10:40pm |
re: #681 Gus 802
Nope. What's that?
This thread. Po' baby didn't have a prayer. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 690 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:12:33pm |
re: #684 SanFranciscoZionist
Where?
'The wife of your youth' is a phrase used repeatedly, but I have never heard that verse anywhere.
| 691 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:12:42pm |
re: #686 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
I'm not trying to be mean.
Oh, I don't think you're trying to be mean.
But me? I am trying to be silly.
| 692 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:12:50pm |
re: #689 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
This thread. Po' baby didn't have a prayer. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Oh. I think I was offline trying to cool down from the heat. Page just crashed while trying to search there.
| 693 |
engineer cat Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:12:51pm |
| 694 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:12:55pm |
Hell, the only game I've spent any real time this week with has been Minecraft. You wouldn't think so, but it will kill time like nobody's business.
| 695 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:13:41pm |
Panda's Thumb on the Norway Murders, Christianity, Darwin, and tolerance
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 696 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:14:44pm |
re: #694 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Civ IV. Digital crack.
| 697 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:15:16pm |
| 698 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:15:28pm |
re: #691 Slumbering Behemoth
Oh, I don't think you're trying to be mean.
But me? I am trying to be silly.
Heh, hard sometimes to handle the mood changes 'round here. We can go from hard-hitting, very emotional discussions on major topics...to quoting famous comedies and talking about video games of our youth.
And, when we're really bored, talking about hentai and tentacles. *shudders*
| 699 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:16:36pm |
re: #695 Sergey Romanov
Panda's Thumb on the Norway Murders, Christianity, Darwin, and tolerance
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Saw that one earlier. Everyone is a Darwinist when they commit murder. Unless they're Muslim.
| 700 |
laZardo Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:16:40pm |
Headan to bed.
Applied at Outdoor Emporium, an Asian supermarket and Safeway today, got rejected from Macy's. :C Hoping to get a job before WE ALL DIE NEXT WEDNESDAY or something.
Cheers.
| 701 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:18:06pm |
re: #696 Slumbering Behemoth
Civ IV. Digital crack.
Yeah, I'll second that. "Just one turn...just one more turn..."
| 702 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:18:27pm |
re: #698 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Heh, hard sometimes to handle the mood changes 'round here. We can go from hard-hitting, very emotional discussions on major topics...to quoting famous comedies and talking about video games of our youth.
And, when we're really bored, talking about hentai and tentacles. *shudders*
Spaghetti god-thing has tenacles?
| 703 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:18:49pm |
re: #699 Slumbering Behemoth
Saw that one earlier. Everyone is a Darwinist when they commit murder. Unless they're Muslim.
Darwinists are Muslish!
| 705 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:20:11pm |
re: #702 ggt
Spaghetti god-thing has tenacles?
What, you haven't been touched by his noodlely appendage?
| 706 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:20:40pm |
re: #698 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Heh, hard sometimes to handle the mood changes 'round here. We can go from hard-hitting, very emotional discussions on major topics...to quoting famous comedies and talking about video games of our youth.
And, when we're really bored, talking about hentai and tentacles. *shudders*
Cthulhu rising from the deep, spares humanity to fulfill his secret desire to become a Japanese porn star...
| 707 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:21:22pm |
re: #687 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I wish I could get that toaster.
Or those Light Switches.
Actually, I would love if the offered all the stuff in the sink. Except for the Book thingy.
| 708 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:21:48pm |
re: #698 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Heh, hard sometimes to handle the mood changes 'round here. We can go from hard-hitting, very emotional discussions on major topics...to quoting famous comedies and talking about video games of our youth.
I really dig video games, but I am no dev fanboi/hater, I only pretend to be. If it's fun, I'll play it.
And, when we're really bored, talking about hentai and tentacles. *shudders*
Dear Gravel, if I ever get that bored, please kill me.
| 709 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:23:23pm |
re: #695 Sergey Romanov
Panda's Thumb on the Norway Murders, Christianity, Darwin, and tolerance
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
One thing in the post from the link:
"* Brevik was a Christian and believed in God, although he is not theologically conservative nor a fundamentalist, nor really an actively practicing Christian."
He includes a lot of anti-Protestant screeds in the manifesto, and slams Evangelical and Reformed Protestantism. I sure hope the crankodoodle Catholics don't find out...
| 710 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:23:31pm |
re: #707 ProLifeLiberal
I wish I could get that toaster.
Or those Light Switches.
Actually, I would love if the offered all the stuff in the sink. Except for the Book thingy.
Oh, a communist, eh?
| 711 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:23:38pm |
re: #694 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Hell, the only game I've spent any real time this week with has been Minecraft. You wouldn't think so, but it will kill time like nobody's business.
Heh. I had built this ginormous 90x120 castle/courtyard out of sandstone in the middle of the ocean. And then i died, and realized I had no idea what the coordinates were for the giant structure I had just built.
It took me 10 days of infrequent searching to re-find it.
| 712 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:24:15pm |
re: #706 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I hate you. :[
| 713 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:24:20pm |
re: #698 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Heh, hard sometimes to handle the mood changes 'round here. We can go from hard-hitting, very emotional discussions on major topics...to quoting famous comedies and talking about video games of our youth.
And, when we're really bored, talking about hentai and tentacles. *shudders*
Last night saw a spirited debate as to whether Santa exists.
| 714 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:24:46pm |
re: #713 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Last night saw a spirited debate as to whether Santa exists.
HE DOES and don't try to tell me anything else!!!!!
:)
| 715 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:25:00pm |
re: #710 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
No, someone with a brain. :P
I will confess to be a Social Democrat though ^_^.
| 716 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:25:16pm |
I know the truth!
It's really the Kracken in charge.
| 717 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:25:29pm |
re: #711 Spocomptonite
Heh. I had built this ginormous 90x120 castle/courtyard out of sandstone in the middle of the ocean. And then i died, and realized I had no idea what the coordinates were for the giant structure I had just built.
It took me 10 days of infrequent searching to re-find it.
My current project is a lighthouse on the home island, after which I'll continue my underwater construction project. With some cave spelunking in between.
| 718 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:26:50pm |
It's raining, it's storming again . . .
Seems to be the atmospheric theme for the week.
| 719 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:27:13pm |
re: #710 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Oh, a communist, eh?
"Do you know what proletariat means? If so, congratulations, that makes you well read and erudite... for a communist."
| 721 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:30:03pm |
re: #717 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
My current project is a lighthouse on the home island, after which I'll continue my underwater construction project. With some cave spelunking in between.
Glowstone is one of my favorite materials in construction.
I think if they combined the 3D building and world of Minecraft with the real geology and ridiculous amount of rock types and their uses in Dwarf Fortress, civilization would probably fall from all the non-stop gaming worldwide.
| 722 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:31:00pm |
| 723 |
Kragar Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:32:08pm |
re: #719 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
"Do you know what proletariat means? If so, congratulations, that makes you well read and erudite... for a communist."
"Mugs, mugs, mugs! Mugs, mugs, mugs! Mug-a-mug! Mug-a-mug! Mugs! God, why can't I stop singing this fucking song?"
| 724 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:32:37pm |
re: #721 Spocomptonite
Glowstone is one of my favorite materials in construction.
I think if they combined the 3D building and world of Minecraft with the real geology and ridiculous amount of rock types and their uses in Dwarf Fortress, civilization would probably fall from all the non-stop gaming worldwide.
Yeah, just took me forever to find diamond to make axes to mine the obsidian I needed for the portal. If there's a real challenge to Minecraft, it's just digging deep enough to find the resources you need for the real good stuff, and then finding your way back home.
| 725 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:34:03pm |
re: #723 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Dr. Who is referenced a decent number of times.
I will do a play through as the Doctor. And will try to make him resemble Ten.
Then will do it again as Eleven, and pick up the redhead as a companion. :D
| 726 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:34:40pm |
re: #725 ProLifeLiberal
Dr. Who is referenced a decent number of times.
I will do a play through as the Doctor. And will try to make him resemble Ten.
Then will do it again as Eleven, and pick up the redhead as a companion. :D
Bah, everybody knows the best Doctor was the Ninth!
/
| 727 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:35:06pm |
re: #716 ggt
I know the truth!
It's really the Kracken in charge.
Just kidding (don't tell the Cat Overlord) (pleez)
| 728 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:35:27pm |
re: #720 Gus 802
Wait, you mean it doesn't?
| 729 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:36:15pm |
re: #724 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Yeah, just took me forever to find diamond to make axes to mine the obsidian I needed for the portal. If there's a real challenge to Minecraft, it's just digging deep enough to find the resources you need for the real good stuff, and then finding your way back home.
I tried using lava poured into a glass "container", but the glass reduced the light given off. Plus it was freaking bulky to implement anywhere, had to have a 3x3 space anywhere I wanted light.
| 732 |
Targetpractice Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:40:33pm |
re: #729 Spocomptonite
I tried using lava poured into a glass "container", but the glass reduced the light given off. Plus it was freaking bulky to implement anywhere, had to have a 3x3 space anywhere I wanted light.
The only time I've tried lava indoors was as a short-lived experiment in setting up an indoor pit to throw dirt and gravel for incineration. Had to replace half the flooring after it caught ablaze.
| 733 |
Gus Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:43:18pm |
re: #728 Slumbering Behemoth
Wait, you mean it doesn't?
What doesn't? I don't know what he's talking about. Yeah, mass shootings happen in places where there aren't many people with guns. Which makes me think of "so what."
| 734 |
CuriousLurker Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:48:19pm |
Uh-oh, grab a bucket & a mop 'cause heads are gonna start 'splodin:
Whole Foods Celebrates, Monetizes Ramadan
Whole Foods has become the first prominent supermarket chain to run a Ramadan marketing campaign--and they're hoping Muslim customers will return the favor as they break fast. Even though Muslims traditionally forego meals during the day, lavish evening Ramadan meals could mean big bucks for the natural foods giant ... as well as brand loyalty from a demographic not traditionally courted by megastore advertising.
[...]
No in-store promotions for the campaign are planned, instead, in an apparent attempt to test the waters, the promotion will start online. The "campaign focuses on reaching Muslim consumers online where they are already having conversations about halal foods, grocery shopping, and preparing for Ramadan,” Saffron Road spokesperson Lisa Mabe tells Fast Company. Saffron Road maintains a heavy social media presence and an ongoing charitable relationship with Whole Foods' Whole Planet foundation, and hopes the promotion will further strengthen their brand awareness.
[...]
| 735 |
Spocomptonite Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:57:30pm |
re: #734 CuriousLurker
Uh-oh, grab a bucket & a mop 'cause heads are gonna start 'splodin:
Whole Foods and Wal-mart Supercenter customer bases don't have much overlap, I bet. I think they'll benefit greatly from this with little downside. What, are ring-wing people going to boycott someplace they already don't go to?
| 736 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:58:11pm |
re: #733 Gus 802
I'm being sarcastic. Though I think gun free zones are a silly concept, "Every instance of a gunman killing shit-tons of people happens in gun free zones." is clearly a false statement.
The first instance I remember hearing of a gunman killing shit-tons (BTW, is that metric or standard shit-tons?) of people was when a loon killed something like 22 people in a McDonald's, back in the late 70's or early 80's. I don't recall the McDonald's chain being one of those ridiculous gun free zones back then.
| 737 |
Lidane Thu, Jul 28, 2011 11:59:18pm |
re: #494 Gus 802
Could someone please point where in the Constitution it said we had to attack Gaddafi's Libyan military targets? I can't find it.
//
It's in the same place that says we had to attack Iraq because of 9/11 for oil for shits and giggles to find WND for freedom to keep Iran contained.
| 738 |
CuriousLurker Fri, Jul 29, 2011 12:07:28am |
re: #735 Spocomptonite
Whole Foods and Wal-mart Supercenter customer bases don't have much overlap, I bet. I think they'll benefit greatly from this with little downside. What, are ring-wing people going to boycott someplace they already don't go to?
LOL!
Looks like I also have the uncanny ability to post right as a new thread is being started. *sigh* Oh well, my internet connection keeps crapping out anyway. Might as well go to sleep.
| 739 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Jul 29, 2011 12:23:53am |
"Gun Free Zones" are like "Abstinence Only Education" programs. Meaningless, weightless, wishful thinking designed for people who enjoy the bouquet of their own smug farts.
Yet saying "Every instance of a gunman killing shit-tons of people happens in gun free zones." is just as stupid.
| 740 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Jul 29, 2011 1:29:07am |
"Lone gunman" kills "shit-tons of people" in "gun free zone".
/sarc
This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.
Comments are closed.
Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds
- Featured PagesClick to refresh
Hawaii’s Mauna Loa Observatory Just Captured Ominous Signals About the Planet’s Health Hawaii’s Mauna Loa Observatory just captured an ominous sign about the pace of global warming. Atmospheric levels of planet-warming carbon dioxide aren’t just on their way to yet another record high this year - they’re rising faster than ever, ...
Cheechako
2 days ago
Views: 909 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
The Good Liars at the Schnecksville Trump Rally [VIDEO] New theories, great tunes and SHOCKING breaking news. SUPPORT US: http://Herohero.co/thegoodliars SEE THE GOOD LIARS LIVE!WASHINGTON D.C. MAY 23RD: https://www.unionstage.com/shows/good-liars-fix-america/NASHVILLE, TN JUNE 6TH: https://www.etix.com/ticket/p/42992972/the-good-liars-nashville-the-lab-at-zaniesSAN FRANCISCO, CA JUNE 25TH: https://www.livenation.com/event/G5vYZbavGvggG/the-good-liars SUBSCRIBE TO OUR AUDIO PODCAST:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-good-liars-tell-the-truth/id1731178442Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7mgfiwzr32907N4y68eFOCJoin this channel ...
teleskiguy
1 weeks ago
Views: 522 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 0
Trump’s “Stolen Election” Lie Based on Evidence From Pervy Bathroom Cam-Spy OK, this really takes the cake. If you have relatives that still cling to the “election was stolen, dadgum, I jes’ KNOW IT … This should be a slight remedy to the stubborn madness Thanks to online anonymity, the ...
Khal Wimpo (free internal organs upon request!)
2 weeks ago
Views: 358 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 3
Best of April 2024 Nothing new here but these are a look back at the a few good images from the past month. Despite the weather, I was quite pleased with several of them. These were taken with older lenses (made from the ...
William Lewis
2 weeks ago
Views: 335 • Comments: 2 • Rating: 6
Gateway Pundit, Sued by Election Workers, Declares BankruptcyA onetime favorite, now just pathetic figure around these parts, Jim Hoft aka SMOTI ("Stupidest Man On The Internet"), has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in response to the defamation lawsuits filed against him to the same election workers that ... Khal Wimpo (free internal organs upon request!)
2 weeks ago
Views: 386 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 3
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ... Cheechako
3 weeks ago
Views: 1,115 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ... Cheechako
4 weeks ago
Views: 1,064 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
