Misogynist Talk Show Hater Rush Limbaugh Honored by Missouri at Secret Event

On the hard right, Limbaugh’s vile attacks on Sandra Fluke have only increased his popularity
Wingnuts • Views: 33,266

The state of Missouri inducted Rush Limbaugh into their “Hall of Famous Missourians” yesterday, at an invitation-only ceremony closed to the public and guarded by armed members of the Highway Patrol: Doors Locked, Dems Banned as Missouri Honors Limbaugh.

Rush Limbaugh was inducted into the Hall of Famous Missourians yesterday, but the whole affair seemed strangely cloaked in secrecy.

The AM talker was ushered into an invite-only ceremony that took place behind closed doors inside the State Capitol’s House chambers, “which were locked and guarded by armed members of the Missouri Highway Patrol while the ceremony took place,” according to the Kansas City Star.  Democratic lawmakers were banned from the induction.  

A bust of Limbaugh, a Cape Girardeau native, was unveiled at the Hall of Fame ceremony. But for the first time in memory the chamber galleries were closed to the public. And the Republican Speaker of the Missouri House, Steve Tilley, who selected Limbaugh for the honor, gave the media just twenty minutes notice before the event took place. 

The hush-hush nature of the event, which more closely resembled a clandestine political event than a feel-good acknowledgement, likely stemmed from the extraordinary controversy the selection sparked. Owing to Limbaugh’s growing toxicity outside the narrow confines of right-wing talk radio, the backlash to the Missouri announcement was swift and fierce, coming as it did directly on the heels of Limbaugh’s searing Sandra Fluke controversy.

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216 comments
1 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:06:31pm

If a fat imbecile is honoured a huis clos, does anybody hear?

2 HappyWarrior  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:07:02pm

Why honor Limbaugh? Can someone name one positive thing he's contributed to the national discourse.

3 dragonfire1981  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:07:08pm

I wonder how long until someone takes a sledgehammer to that thing.

4 abolitionist  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:07:16pm

Secret event? I'm unconvinced.

5 Simply Sarah  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:08:11pm

re: #2 HappyWarrior

Why honor Limbaugh? Can someone name one positive thing he's contributed to the national discourse.

I think the key is that it's the Hall of Famous Missourians, not the Hall of Good Missourians.

6 dragonfire1981  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:08:25pm

I'm also forced to wonder just how low the qualifications are for this particular "hall of fame".

Because it's apparent they don't go much past "living and breathing."

7 HappyWarrior  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:08:32pm

re: #5 Simply Sarah

I think the key is that it's the Hall of Famous Missourians, not the Hall of Good Missourians.

True point. Still shows that it was politically motivated by locking the Dems out and keeping it under wraps because they know how toxic the guy is.

8 dragonfire1981  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:09:11pm

Imagine if you will, the wingnut outrage if Obama got named to the Hall of Famous Hawaiians in a secret, high security ceremony...

9 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:09:44pm

re: #4 abolitionist

Secret event? I'm unconvinced.

"secret", "irrelevant" - whatevs.

10 wrenchwench  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:09:46pm

This reminds me of the days years when the sign as you enter Yorba Linda, California said, "Birthplace of Our 37th President".

11 dragonfire1981  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:09:47pm

re: #5 Simply Sarah

I think the key is that it's the Hall of Famous Missourians, not the Hall of Good Missourians.

Kinda makes you wonder how the other people in the Hall feel about Limbaugh being added.

12 HappyWarrior  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:10:30pm

re: #11 dragonfire1981

Kinda makes you wonder how the other people in the Hall feel about Limbaugh being added.

I can only imagine the words Truman would have for him.

13 Simply Sarah  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:10:35pm

re: #11 dragonfire1981

Kinda makes you wonder how the other people in the Hall feel about Limbaugh being added.

"Who?"

14 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:12:31pm
15 b_Snark  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:13:52pm

re: #2 HappyWarrior

Why honor Limbaugh? Can someone name one positive thing he's contributed to the national discourse.

FemiNazies.

16 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:13:55pm

Rush Limbaugh isn't listed on their website.

17 HappyWarrior  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:16:03pm

re: #15 Cathartic Expression

FemiNazies.

He didn't even come up with that. Some idiot economics professor at my alma mater did.

18 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:16:19pm

re: #16 Charles Johnson

Rush Limbaugh isn't listed on their website.

Heh. Unfortunately this has no chance of being the case, but wouldn't it be awesome if they were just playing a trick on Limbaugh? And then were like 'Psyche, you actually think that highly of yourself? What a load!"

19 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:16:26pm

I wonder how Mark Twain would feel about sharing space with Rush Limbaugh?

20 lawhawk  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:16:47pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

George Washington Carver (1864-1943):
George Washington Carver triumphed over a life of slavery to achieve international fame as a scientist, botanist and educator. In the Reconstruction South, an agricultural monoculture of cotton depleted the soil, and in the early 20th century, the boll weevil destroyed much of the cotton crop. Carver's work on peanuts was intended to provide an alternative crop.Through intensive research, he developed more than 300 by-products from the peanut and sweet potato. He is also known for his work in the fields of soil fertilization and crop diversification. Carver was the first chair of the Department of Agriculture at Tuskegee Institute in Alabama. To commemorate his life and inventions, George Washington Carver Recognition Day is celebrated on January 5, the anniversary of Carver's death.

So, what will they write of Limbaugh? That he was a noxious radio show host with a huge audience that salivated every time he hurled an insult at those he couldn't stand (fill in the blank with the laundry list....). That he made a fortune on hate radio? That he was a druggie? Or maybe that he was such a strong believer in marriage that he has gotten married four times.

Any way you cut it, Missouri Republicans have set the bar pretty low to be considered for that Hall of Famous Missourians.

21 bratwurst  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:17:00pm

re: #8 dragonfire1981

Imagine if you will, the wingnut outrage if Obama got named to the Hall of Famous Hawaiians in a secret, high security ceremony...

While you are at it, imagine the shitstorm that would follow Obama presenting an award to a prominent critic of Benjamin Netanyahu the way Bibi presented a "Defender of Israel" award to Glenn Beck.

22 HappyWarrior  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:17:38pm

re: #21 bratwurst

While you are at it, imagine the shitstorm that would follow Obama presenting an award to a prominent critic of Benjamin Netanyahu the way Bibi presented a "Defender of Israel" award to Glenn Beck.

Outrage and more outrage? By the way, Glenn Beck constantly trivializes Nazi Germany's evil, that's not something a "defender of Israel" does.

23 bratwurst  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:19:05pm

re: #22 HappyWarrior

Outrage and more outrage?

Image: magic-8-ball.png

24 Gus  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:20:42pm

Carlos Fuentes has died. He was 83.

25 b_Snark  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:23:15pm

A thread about Limbaugh, installation of an MicroSoft product and I experience my very first BSOD on my main system.

Coincidence?

I think not.

26 wrenchwench  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:23:55pm

re: #19 Charles Johnson

I wonder how Mark Twain would feel about sharing space with Rush Limbaugh?

He would have some choice words, no doubt.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass.

27 SidewaysQuark  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:24:11pm

I personally think Rush Limbaugh harbors most of the blame for starting the media trend responsible for modern conservatism's slide into complete stupidity.

28 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:24:38pm

re: #21 bratwurst

While you are at it, imagine the shitstorm that would follow Obama presenting an award to a prominent critic of Benjamin Netanyahu the way Bibi presented a "Defender of Israel" award to Glenn Beck.

This hypothetical does not impress me. Care to expand on the hidden subtext (hidden, but not subtle).

29 Tumulus11  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:24:58pm
16 Charles Johnson
Tue, May 15, 2012 12:13:55pm
Rush Limbaugh isn't listed on their website.

. The Hall is building a fifth quadrant to enclose his ego.

30 b_Snark  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:25:37pm

re: #29 Tumulus11

. The Hall is building a fifth quadrant to enclose his ego.

Out back.

31 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:25:44pm

re: #29 Tumulus11

. The Hall is building a fifth quadrant to enclose his ego.

Enclose, but unfortunately not "contain"

32 b_Snark  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:26:34pm

re: #31 Ascher

Enclose, but unfortunately not "contain"

Muffin top.

33 bratwurst  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:31:31pm

re: #28 Ascher

This hypothetical does not impress me. Care to expand on the hidden subtext (hidden, but not subtle).

I am a Jew and a Zionist who actually spends his time and money in Israel on a regular basis. I am a also a regular contributor to Magen David Adom.

Having said that, I am hiding nothing and stand 100% by what I said. If Obama gave an award to a prominent domestic critic of the current Israeli government, I have no doubt whatsoever that there would be an ENORMOUS shitstorm.

I will, however, promise to try harder in the future to impress you.

34 b_Snark  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:33:35pm

Damn this place is diverse.

35 dragonfire1981  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:34:18pm

Some other interesting details on this:

House Speaker Steve Tilley, who selected Limbaugh for the honor, wants the bust placed in the Capitol rotunda with those of other famous Missourians including Mark Twain, Walt Disney, and Harry Truman. But Missouri's Democratic governor released a memo yesterday indicating that a state board, not the House speaker, has authority over the display. Its sculptor, meanwhile, is selling replicas for $15,000. Limbaugh is the 41st inductee to the Hall of Fame. Dred Scott, a slave who unsuccessfully sued for his freedom, was inducted last week.

36 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:36:41pm

re: #33 bratwurst

It's an unprovable hypothesis. It's also a safe statement, since everything BHO does unleashes a "shitstorm".

The fact that you response post starts with qualifiers about your identity and charitable works indicates to me that you do see the issue with your blank initial statement. There is nothing in this thread - not the initial page, not the subsequent comments - that invites a discussion about what might happen should BHO honour a critic of Netanyahu. An absolute non sequitur.

37 Major Tom  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:37:08pm

"The hush-hush nature of the event, which more closely resembled a Klan meeting than a feel-good acknowledgement"


fixed

38 Kragar  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:37:13pm

Barton Presents Legend as Fact at Capitol Prayer Event

As Barton relates the tale, a British loyalist named Issac Potts owned a home near where Washington was camped at Valley Forge and one day stumbled upon Washington alone in the woods making supplication to God on behalf of his army and the American cause, causing Potts to rush home and declare to his wife that the British cause was lost since God would most assuredly answer the prayers of any man who prayed with such conviction:

You will surely be shocked to learn that, contrary to Barton's assertion, this apocryphal incident never actually happened, as History Professor John Fea explained in his book "Was America Founded As a Christian Nation?:

39 dragonfire1981  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:37:32pm

And here's a lovely statement from the Republican that nominated Limbaugh for the Hall in the first place:

"He may say things that strike a nerve," Tilley said. "But that doesn't undo everything he's accomplished in his career, and it doesn't provide a reasonable excuse why he shouldn't be honored by his home state for his many accomplishments."

Liberals, Tilley added, try to "put forth the illusion that they believe in tolerance and understanding, but they are anything but tolerant and anything but understanding."

40 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:38:14pm

*sigh*

41 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:38:18pm

re: #36 Ascher

I really can't understand what you're trying to say about this.

42 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:38:26pm

re: #34 Cathartic Expression

Damn this place is diverse.

[Link: farm4.staticflickr.com...]

43 Gus  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:38:34pm

re: #40 May Day! May Day!

*sigh*

I was thinking "give it a rest." ;)

44 b_Snark  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:38:54pm

re: #39 dragonfire1981

And here's a lovely statement from the Republican that nominated Limbaugh for the Hall in the first place:

We demand tolerance and understanding for real victims of our culture, not fake ones like Rush.

45 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:39:47pm

re: #41 Obdicut

I really can't understand what you're trying to say about this.

I am saying that a non sequitur comment which brings up a hypothetical about Israel and the pro-Israel segment of US society is going to attract a comment from me.

46 HappyWarrior  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:40:31pm

Those mean liberals callibg Fluke a slut, women feminazjs, calling the first lady uppitu

47 bratwurst  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:40:32pm

re: #36 Ascher

There is nothing in this thread - not the initial page, not the subsequent comments - that invites a discussion about what might happen should BHO honour a critic of Netanyahu. An absolute non sequitur.

Something about assholes on the radio receiving awards. Accept my apologies if that is too much of a stretch for you.

48 b_Snark  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:41:00pm

re: #42 Ascher

[Link: farm4.staticflickr.com...]

Were you looking over my shoulder?

My cat Remmy just tried to type out and post a comment a few minutes ago.

It was either gibberish or cat-speak, I don't know the difference.

49 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:41:34pm

re: #38 Kragar

Thanks, good post. And I still think Joey Barton whenever I see "Barton".

50 dragonfire1981  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:43:04pm

Charles, the reason Limbaugh doesn't show on the website is I believe because his bust hasn't actually been placed in the Hall yet with all the others.

The articles I read indicate that Missouri Democrats are trying to keep that from happening while Republicans are trying to convince state officials to allow it to be placed there.

51 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:43:33pm

re: #45 Ascher

I am saying that a non sequitur comment which brings up a hypothetical about Israel and the pro-Israel segment of US society is going to attract a comment from me.

But I can't understand what that comment is. Bibi gave an award to Beck, a virulent anti-Obama critic, anti-Liberal, and, incidentally, promoter of anti-Semitic literature. There was very little outcry.

If Obama were to give an award to someone who was an equally prominent critic of Bibi of a virulent nature, there would be a much bigger stink.

Is this 'hypothetical'? Sure. Is it a non-sequiter? No. We're talking about honoring virulent assholes. Beck is one, honored by Bibi. Limbaugh is another, honored by the State of Missouri.

Does that help?

52 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:43:34pm

re: #47 bratwurst

Something about assholes on the radio receiving awards. Accept my apologies if that is too much of a stretch for you.

Nuance is hard to catch on the internet. I have been struck over the past few days by a number of blatantly anti-Israel comments and posts - NONE by yourself, and I have decided not to give any of them a pass anymore. I missed your meaning, and I apologize.

53 Kragar  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:44:31pm

re: #50 dragonfire1981

Charles, the reason Limbaugh doesn't show on the website is I believe because his bust hasn't actually been placed in the Hall yet with all the others.

The articles I read indicate that Missouri Democrats are trying to keep that from happening while Republicans are trying to convince state officials to allow it to be placed there.

By way of compromise, I say they stick it in one of the men's room stalls at the Hall.

54 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:45:15pm

re: #52 Ascher

Nuance is hard to catch on the internet. I have been struck over the past few days by a number of blatantly anti-Israel comments and posts - NONE by yourself, and I have decided not to give any of them a pass anymore. I missed your meaning, and I apologize.

I must have missed those.

55 b_Snark  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:45:23pm

re: #53 Kragar

By way of compromise, I say they stick it in one of the men's room stalls at the Hall.

So it can scare the piss out of people.

56 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:45:39pm

re: #53 Kragar

By way of compromise, I say they stick it in one of the men's room stalls at the Hall.

At waist level. And I assume it will portray him with his mouth open, they can just connect it to the plumbing...

57 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:45:52pm

re: #51 Obdicut

But I can't understand what that comment is. Bibi gave an award to Beck, a virulent anti-Obama critic, anti-Liberal, and, incidentally, promoter of anti-Semitic literature. There was very little outcry.

If Obama were to give an award to someone who was an equally prominent critic of Bibi of a virulent nature, there would be a much bigger stink.

Is this 'hypothetical'? Sure. Is it a non-sequiter? No. We're talking about honoring virulent assholes. Beck is one, honored by Bibi. Limbaugh is another, honored by the State of Missouri.

Does that help?

Help? Maybe. What it does not help is to explain to me why I get a feeling that a number of members here have recently begun to feel comfortable making openly biased anti-Israel statements. Not commentary or constructive criticism - straight unabashed bias.
Anyway, my skin is thin today.

58 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:46:05pm

re: #52 Ascher

Where are these blatantly anti-Israel posts?

59 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:46:16pm

re: #57 Ascher

Can you please give an example?

60 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:46:50pm

re: #54 Learned Mother of Zion

I must have missed those.

Check some of my recent pages - and yours.

61 wrenchwench  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:47:03pm

re: #53 Kragar

By way of compromise, I say they stick it in one of the men's room stalls at the Hall.

He'd make a nice urinal cake.

62 bratwurst  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:47:11pm

re: #52 Ascher

Nuance is hard to catch on the internet. I have been struck over the past few days by a number of blatantly anti-Israel comments and posts - NONE by yourself, and I have decided not to give any of them a pass anymore. I missed your meaning, and I apologize.

Apology accepted. I provided my Zionists bona fides for you in an attempt to assure you that some of us who love Israel may not always be 100% thrilled with the current government there. I am cautiously optimistic about the new coalition however.

63 Gus  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:47:16pm

O_o

64 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:48:04pm

re: #62 bratwurst

Apology accepted. I provided my Zionists bona fides for you in an attempt to assure you that some of us who love Israel may not always be 100% thrilled with the current government there. I am cautiously optimistic about the new coalition however.

Thanks; and Agreed.

65 b_Snark  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:49:15pm

re: #57 Ascher

Help? Maybe. What it does not help is to explain to me why I get a feeling that a number of members here have recently begun to feel comfortable making openly biased anti-Israel statements. Not commentary or constructive criticism - straight unabashed bias.
Anyway, my skin is thin today.

You'll likely hear me make anti-Israel comments from time to time, just as you'll hear me make anti-America and anti-Canada comments. I do what I can to separate the actions of a country's current government and the people who live there, as I expect most others here do.

66 General Nimrod Bodfish  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:49:26pm

re: #56 Expand Your Ground

At waist level. And I assume it will portray him with his mouth open, they can just connect it to the plumbing...

Considering that he spews shit, it would be a nice bit of full circle, for lack of a better term, if we return the favor that way.

67 b_Snark  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:50:05pm

re: #61 wrenchwench

He'd make a nice urinal cake.

Something he has experience with?

68 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:50:54pm

re: #60 Ascher

Check some of my recent pages - and yours.

I just did. And, didn't see anything.

70 Gus  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:50:55pm

re: #65 Cathartic Expression

You'll likely hear me make anti-Israel comments from time to time, just as you'll hear me make anti-America and anti-Canada comments. I do what I can to separate the actions of a country's current government and the people who live there, as I expect most others here do.

Right. Just because I don't worship at the altar of the Likudniks and King Netanyahu doesn't mean I'm anti-Israel. Or does it? ;)

71 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:52:03pm

re: #65 Cathartic Expression

You'll likely hear me make anti-Israel comments from time to time, just as you'll hear me make anti-America and anti-Canada comments. I do what I can to separate the actions of a country's current government and the people who live there, as I expect most others here do.

Most do; I also try not to be blindly partisan (I am not a big fan of Netanyahu, for instance). But I have made a decision to err on the side of being somewhat hyper-sensitive, at east for the time being. I am also happy to apologize when proven wrong.

72 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:52:28pm

re: #71 Ascher

Can you give an example of a blatantly anti-Israel post, please?

73 b_Snark  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:52:32pm

re: #70 Gus

Right. Just because I don't worship at the altar of the Likudnicks and King Netanyahu doesn't mean I'm anti-Israel. Or does it? ;)

Everybody loves you Gus because you're so obviously anti-anti-anti.

74 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:53:05pm

re: #68 Learned Mother of Zion

Sorry, it was not your page
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

75 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:53:28pm

re: #65 Cathartic Expression

You'll likely hear me make anti-Israel comments from time to time, just as you'll hear me make anti-America and anti-Canada comments. I do what I can to separate the actions of a country's current government and the people who live there, as I expect most others here do.

I don't count anti-Putin comments as anti-Russia comments (or I would have been an anti-Russian myself). If, say, somebody calls Netanyahu a name, it doesn't mean they're anti-Israel. Quite possibly it's deserved too.

76 b_Snark  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:53:55pm

Time to go pick up the wife and deliver her for her double root-canal.

This should be fun.

Later gators.

77 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:54:33pm

re: #74 Ascher

And the blatantly anti-Israel post is where on that page?

78 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:55:12pm

re: #70 Gus

Right. Just because I don't worship at the altar of the Likudnicks and King Netanyahu doesn't mean I'm anti-Israel. Or does it? ;)

Nope. Nor does it make the big swath of Israeli society that feels similarly, traitors. And I do not count myself amongst those who consider every criticism of Israel to be anti- Semitic or anti-Israel.

79 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:55:37pm

re: #77 Obdicut

And the blatantly anti-Israel post is where on that page?

If you can't tell then you're part of the problem!

80 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:56:05pm

re: #77 Obdicut

And the blatantly anti-Israel post is where on that page?

There is very little room to read 00G's comment as anything but.

81 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:57:12pm

re: #80 Ascher

There is very little room to read 00G's comment as anything but.

No, I just thought that was a request for clarification.

82 Gus  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:57:13pm

re: #80 Ascher

There is very little room to read 00G's comment as anything but.

Not reading that here.

83 wrenchwench  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:57:18pm

re: #71 Ascher

Most do; I also try not to be blindly partisan (I am not a big fan of Netanyahu, for instance). But I have made a decision to err on the side of being somewhat hyper-sensitive, at east for the time being. I am also happy to apologize when proven wrong.

This is an unlizardlike position. Tough scales are a better choice, unless you have plenty of ointment.

84 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:57:39pm

re: #79 Millicent Islam

Yeah, Jimmah's been giving a great accounting of himself in this regard.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

85 Gus  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:58:03pm

Oh geez.

86 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:58:07pm

re: #80 Ascher

There is very little room to read 00G's comment as anything but.

I read it as saying that saying "If they had accepted the partition" was in error, given that most of the people from 1947 are not most of the people alive today.

What way are you reading it to make it somehow anti-Israel? I can't even see how it would be so.

Is that really your only example of a 'blatant' anti-Israel post that has you so on edge you're lashing out at people who are criticizing Bibi?

87 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:58:43pm

re: #83 wrenchwench

This is an unlizardlike position. Tough scales are a better choice, unless you have plenty of ointment.

[Embedded content]

I have thick enough skin. But I am through shrugging off comments I find deeply objectionable. That includes unexplained downdings. I rarely downding, and then generally in the context of a post.

88 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, May 15, 2012 12:59:08pm

000G would be very surprised to know he is anti-Israel. I mean, he is known to be concerned about anti-Zionist comments at TP and at one time came close to calling one-staters antisemites.

89 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:00:22pm

re: #84 Ascher

Yeah, Jimmah's been giving a great accounting of himself in this regard.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I think he summed up what you were doing very nicely:

Fuck you. You were trolling for a negative reaction from the outset. Attaching a wingnutty comment to a story about Israel and then reacting as though the inevitable negative response was about Israel and not you.

Keep your bottled up hostility for somewhere else.

And here you are again in this thread, trolling for more.

90 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:00:37pm

Guess what folks? I'm an anti-semite too! Who knew?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

91 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:00:41pm

re: #86 Obdicut

I read it as saying that saying "If they had accepted the partition" was in error, given that most of the people from 1947 are not most of the people alive today.

What way are you reading it to make it somehow anti-Israel? I can't even see how it would be so.

Is that really your only example of a 'blatant' anti-Israel post that has you so on edge you're lashing out at people who are criticizing Bibi?

"They", quoted by 00G, in the context of the page, is a finger pointed at alleged "us and them" thinking propagated by Israel.

92 wrenchwench  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:01:18pm

re: #87 Ascher

I have thick enough skin. But I am through shrugging off comments I find deeply objectionable. That includes unexplained downdings.

As long as you don't mind lots of arguments, and deploy this frequently:

I am also happy to apologize when proven wrong.

and don't hijack too many threads... I still think the ointment might be a good idea.

93 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:01:20pm

re: #87 Ascher

Well, be prepared to wind up looking like an oversensitive reactionary, as you are in this case. Which really, really doesn't help the image of Israel.

And Jimmah's comment is in reaction to this:

An infant born amid the thunder of hostile artillery and invading troops; brought into the world in the aftermath of unimaginable slaughter. And you expect the adult Israel to behave as if everything is OK when she is threatened?

Which, to me, is a pretty silly question. Who is the 'you' that you're addressing? What is 'behaving as if everything is okay'? Etc.

94 Romantic Heretic  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:01:44pm

In other news, Mark Twain, Harry Truman and George Washington Carver rose from the grave to have their names removed from The Hall of Famous Missourians. They have no wish to be associated with Rush in any way.

95 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:01:53pm

re: #91 Ascher

"They", quoted by 00G, in the context of the page, is a finger pointed at alleged "us and them" thinking propagated by Israel.

In the context of the comment immediately above it, it's about the 'they' who accepted partition. Why is that an impossible reading to you?

96 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:01:58pm

re: #89 Millicent Islam

I think he summed up what you were doing very nicely:

And here you are again in this thread, trolling for more.

Yeah, I am a proven troll. That insult is the last bastion of those who have run dry on arguments to support their positions. Oh, wait - there was no position stated other than to claim I was "trolling" with "wingnuttery"

97 CuriousLurker  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:02:26pm

re: #52 Ascher

Nuance is hard to catch on the internet. I have been struck over the past few days by a number of blatantly anti-Israel comments and posts - NONE by yourself, and I have decided not to give any of them a pass anymore. I missed your meaning, and I apologize.

Okay, question: What constitutes a "blatantly anti-Israel" comment, in your opinion?

I'm not looking for a debate or an argument, just a definition. For example, if I use the term anti-American it typically means someone who dislikes America or Americans as a general rule—i.e. someone who is bigoted, not someone with a legitimate gripe (even if I disagree with how legitimate the gripe is).

In another context, it could also mean someone whose behavior indicates they don't share core American values (freedom of speech, religion, etc. for all Americans).

98 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:02:37pm

re: #89 Millicent Islam

I don't think he was trolling. I think he was sincere, but the language is relatively meaningless sloganeering.

99 Gus  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:03:01pm

re: #93 Obdicut

Well, be prepared to wind up looking like an oversensitive reactionary, as you are in this case. Which really, really doesn't help the image of Israel.

And Jimmah's comment is in reaction to this:

Which, to me, is a pretty silly question. Who is the 'you' that you're addressing? What is 'behaving as if everything is okay'? Etc.

I admit when I read "you expect the adult Israel to behave as if everything is OK when she is threatened" it made me wonder, hokay. Myself I shrugged it off.

100 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:03:21pm

re: #93 Obdicut

Well, be prepared to wind up looking like an oversensitive reactionary, as you are in this case. Which really, really doesn't help the image of Israel.

And Jimmah's comment is in reaction to this:

Which, to me, is a pretty silly question. Who is the 'you' that you're addressing? What is 'behaving as if everything is okay'? Etc.

Hey, you want to call a sentence or a rhetorical device "silly"? I have no problem with that. Identify that post as trolling wingnuttery? I have a big problem with that.

101 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:03:31pm

re: #96 Ascher

Yeah, I am a proven troll. That insult is the last bastion of those who have run dry on arguments to support their positions. Oh, wait - there was no position stated other than to claim I was "trolling" with "wingnuttery"

You're going out of your way to take offense, and when people object to this you call them antiSemites. You are, in fact, trolling for a reaction.

102 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:03:43pm

re: #91 Ascher

"They", quoted by 00G, in the context of the page, is a finger pointed at alleged "us and them" thinking propagated by Israel.

I think if Marjorie had been more specific and said "The Arab League" instead of a vague "They" there would have been no objection. You are reading way too much into the comment.

103 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:04:09pm

re: #98 Obdicut

I don't think he was trolling. I think he was sincere, but the language is relatively meaningless sloganeering.

I mean trolling in the sense of fishing. He's definitely doing that.

104 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:04:17pm

re: #99 Gus

I admit when I read "you expect the adult Israel to behave as if everything is OK when she is threatened" it made me wonder, hokay. Myself I shrugged it off.

Is it a brilliant piece of writing? Nope.

105 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:04:27pm

re: #99 Gus

It's a perfectly good point that the origins of Israel, and the invasion of it in 1967, and the repeated physical attacks on it, are something that I think Americans find it hard to think about. We've never been in a situation where our country was seriously threatened as to its existence. Israel has been. It's definitely something to remember.

However, the specific language of "behaving as if everything is okay", I have no clue what that's supposed to mean.

106 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:04:49pm

re: #102 Learned Mother of Zion

I think if Marjorie had been more specific and said "The Arab League" instead of a vague "They" there would have been no objection. You are reading way too much into the comment.

"Marjorie"?

107 bluecheese  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:05:20pm

the way this thread got derailed reminds me of a Kos comment thread.

guess I'll try back later when there is a different topic.

108 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:05:52pm

re: #106 Ascher

"Marjorie"?

"What, Me Worry" is Marjoriemoon's new screen name, like I am still Alouette.

109 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:06:53pm

re: #105 Obdicut

It's a perfectly good point that the origins of Israel, and the invasion of it in 1967, and the repeated physical attacks on it, are something that I think Americans find it hard to think about. We've never been in a situation where our country was seriously threatened as to its existence. Israel has been. It's definitely something to remember.

However, the specific language of "behaving as if everything is okay", I have no clue what that's supposed to mean.

The point - poorly and inadequately expressed - is that many people hide their anti-Semitism behind apparently objective criticism of Israel. But Israel has never been in a normal situation.

110 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:06:59pm

re: #100 Ascher

Hey, you want to call a sentence or a rhetorical device "silly"? I have no problem with that. Identify that post as trolling wingnuttery? I have a big problem with that.

Okay. I have a really big problem with you declaring that people are posting blatantly anti-Israel posts, and then serving up one post that, if you interpret it while squinting, could possibly be seen as anti-Israel, and another one that is disrespectful to you, but not anti-Israel.

As I said, I don't think you're a troll. I also don't think those posts are blatantly, or even subtly, anti-Israel, and I think you're making yourself look foolish and paranoid by jumping on posts and declaring them anti-Israel. In this case, you've attacked two people who I know are very pro-Israel. That's not a very good success record, is it?

111 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:07:34pm

re: #108 Learned Mother of Zion

"What, Me Worry" is Marjoriemoon's new screen name, like I am still Alouette.

My comment refers to Unlike Other People (00G), NOT Marjoriemoon.

112 Gus  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:07:49pm

re: #104 Ascher

Is it a brilliant piece of writing? Nope.

Well. You can always edit that post if you feel the need to clarify what you meant.

113 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:08:11pm

re: #100 Ascher

Hey, you want to call a sentence or a rhetorical device "silly"? I have no problem with that. Identify that post as trolling wingnuttery? I have a big problem with that.

I think when you respond by lashing out and accusing people of making anti semitic comments when they have done nothing of the sort you demonstrate very clearly that you are indeed trolling for exactly the reasons I gave.

114 Gus  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:08:31pm

re: #111 Ascher

My comment refers to Unlike Other People (00G), NOT Marjoriemoon.

Sorry Imp. But you singling out 000G right now is, well, bullshit.

115 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:08:38pm

re: #97 CuriousLurker

Lots of Russians are anti-American (unf.; and it's fostered from above). However, is someone unhappy about, say, the US foreign policy and voicing such concerns, maybe quite loudly, "anti-American"? I sure as heck wasn't happy about the American adventure in Iraq and I will continue to say "unpalatable" things about Bush, Cheney et al. However I'm pretty close to "pro-US" ( though I find pro-state labels to be largely meaningless; I'm pro-liberal democracy).

116 Simply Sarah  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:09:40pm

re: #111 Ascher

My comment refers to Unlike Other People (00G), NOT Marjoriemoon.

000G was responding to Marjorie.

117 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:10:20pm

re: #109 Ascher

The point - poorly and inadequately expressed - is that many people hide their anti-Semitism behind apparently objective criticism of Israel. But Israel has never been in a normal situation.

If it's OBJECTIVE criticism of Israel, then it's legitimate regardless of whether the person making it is an Anti-Semite. Having some legitimate disagreements about who is invited into the coalition is not the same as saying something horrible like "The population numbers of the Haredim need to be reduced"

118 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:10:22pm

re: #110 Obdicut

Okay. I have a really big problem with you declaring that people are posting blatantly anti-Israel posts, and then serving up one post that, if you interpret it while squinting, could possibly be seen as anti-Israel, and another one that is disrespectful to you, but not anti-Israel.

As I said, I don't think you're a troll. I also don't think those posts are blatantly, or even subtly, anti-Israel, and I think you're making yourself look foolish and paranoid by jumping on posts and declaring them anti-Israel. In this case, you've attacked two people who I know are very pro-Israel. That's not a very good success record, is it?

Happy to have a discussion about the subjectivity of experience and how our personal backgrounds inform our interpretation of the world around us.

I grew up having to fight every school break because I am Jewish. On the way home, I would be intercepted by groups of kids who yanked my yarmulke off my head and played "keepaway" with it. I was in fistfights every school day from 3rd grade until 9th grade.
Yeah, I'm a bit sensitive.

119 Interesting Times  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:10:34pm
120 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:11:03pm

re: #109 Ascher

The point - poorly and inadequately expressed - is that many people hide their anti-Semitism behind apparently objective criticism of Israel. But Israel has never been in a normal situation.

Not only did 00G (or myself for that matter) not make any anti-semitic comments, neither of us criticsed Israel either.

121 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:11:15pm

re: #119 Interesting Times

Oh good grief. Obsessed dead-threader is obsessed.

I'm starting to feel the same way.

122 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:11:23pm

re: #118 Ascher

And your sensitivity is leading you into fucking up repeatedly. So maybe you ought to do something about that? Because it also is working contrary to your goal of supporting Israel.

123 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:13:01pm

Folks, I have explained where I am coming from. I have apologized to bratwurst. I am happy to receive negative comments, so long as they are not ad hominem. However, I will continue to respond to posts and pages in a way that makes me feel as if I have done the right thing. If I end up eating crow afterwards -meh. I've eaten worse.

124 CuriousLurker  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:13:05pm

re: #109 Ascher

The point - poorly and inadequately expressed - is that many people hide their anti-Semitism behind apparently objective criticism of Israel. But Israel has never been in a normal situation.

I like you and I don't want to pile n, but I have to agree with Obdicut here. I can say the same, "Many people hide their Islamophobia behind apparently objective criticism of of terrorists/radical Islamists." The thing is, I have no way of proving their hidden intent. If I try to do so, then I come off looking hypersensitive and/or possibly end up alienating people who weren't actually hiding any ill intent.

125 Simply Sarah  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:13:46pm

re: #118 Ascher

Happy to have a discussion about the subjectivity of experience and how our personal backgrounds inform our interpretation of the world around us.

I grew up having to fight every school break because I am Jewish. On the way home, I would be intercepted by groups of kids who yanked my yarmulke off my head and played "keepaway" with it. I was in fistfights every school day from 3rd grade until 9th grade.
Yeah, I'm a bit sensitive.

Well, I think we can all appreciate and understand your being sensitive. However, and I say this from personal experience, we cannot allow ourselves to become so sensitive that we constantly lash out at well-meaning allies and friends over misunderstandings. If we do that we only hurt ourselves, our allies, and our cause.

126 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:13:59pm

re: #122 Obdicut

And your sensitivity is leading you into fucking up repeatedly. So maybe you ought to do something about that? Because it also is working contrary to your goal of supporting Israel.

Ointment. Needs more ointment.

127 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:14:48pm

re: #122 Obdicut

And your sensitivity is leading you into fucking up repeatedly. So maybe you ought to do something about that? Because it also is working contrary to your goal of supporting Israel.

I don't think I am fucking up. I might be offending your view of what goes where on LGF, and I have definitely fucked up in my life. I can tell the difference between voicing unpopular opinions, and fucking up.

128 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:15:29pm

re: #127 Ascher

I don't think I am fucking up. I might be offending your view of what goes where on LGF, and I have definitely fucked up in my life. I can tell the difference between voicing unpopular opinions, and fucking up.

See #120.

129 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:15:56pm

re: #125 Simply Sarah

Well, I think we can all appreciate and understand your being sensitive. However, and I say this from personal experience, we cannot allow ourselves to become so sensitive that we constantly lash out at well-meaning allies and friends over misunderstandings. If we do that we only hurt ourselves, our allies, and our cause.

I agree. And when posters I respect have a bad day, I move along and don't pile on. Interestingly, piling on is apparently a really popular activity here.

130 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:16:40pm

re: #127 Ascher

No, dude. In this case, you attacked both 000G, and Bratwurst, for posting what you felt were anti-Israel comments. In neither case was that true, and in both cases the people involved are very pro-Israel.

You seriously don't see that as fucking up?

131 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:17:15pm

re: #129 Ascher

I agree. And when posters I respect have a bad day, I move along and don't pile on. Interestingly, piling on is apparently a really popular activity here.

Surprisingly, there are consequences to lashing out and falsely accusing people of being antisemitic or antiIsrael.

132 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:17:30pm

re: #129 Ascher

I agree. And when posters I respect have a bad day, I move along and don't pile on. Interestingly, piling on is apparently a really popular activity here.

When you make a claim as extreme as that blatantly anti-Israel comments are being posted, you can expect to be taken to task for it when it turns out not to be true.

133 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:17:47pm

re: #128 Aye Pod

I asked thecommodore to please explain his downding, and you wnet full bore apeshit; calling me a wingnut and a troll. In the context, I experienced your comments as highly anti-Israel.

134 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:18:29pm

re: #129 Ascher

I agree. And when posters I respect have a bad day, I move along and don't pile on. Interestingly, piling on is apparently a really popular activity here.

You tried to smear posters who are not anti-semitic as anti semitic - you brought the whole thing up here, and now you are complaining that you are being piled on because it didn't work.

Boo fucking hoo.

135 Simply Sarah  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:18:31pm

re: #129 Ascher

I agree. And when posters I respect have a bad day, I move along and don't pile on. Interestingly, piling on is apparently a really popular activity here.

Well, the fact is that it becomes really easy when you have one person up against a half dozen or more people disagreeing. It's a feedback loop. The single person becomes more defensive and the opposition pushes harder to break the defense, all the while feeding on each other.

136 lawhawk  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:18:33pm

re: #109 Ascher

There are legitimate criticisms of Israeli policy that do not mean that one is anti-Semitic. Leaning on that as a defense of Israeli policies that are questionable is itself questionable.

Are Israel's detention policies worthy of criticism? Absolutely. Let's take the use of indefinite detention. Israel uses indefinite detentions without charges for Palestinians who have been arrested for various infractions. Some Palestinians have been arrested and detained for months without charges. Those arrested should be charged - or else released. Keeping them without charges is a big problem, and the Israeli courts have repeatedly sought to reign in those detentions.

The Israeli government just worked out a deal with the Palestinians over this very issue - working through those who are being detained in exchange for ending the hunger strike.

It was an effective use of nonviolent demonstrations against Israel.

The criticism isn't anti-Semitism. It's dealing with a very real problem (Israel's security and balancing rights and responsibilities, and addressing them while being critical of Israel isn't anti-Semitic).

137 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:18:39pm

re: #131 Millicent Islam

Surprisingly, there are consequences to lashing out and accusing people of being antisemitic or antiIsrael.

Surprisingly, there seem to be far lesser consequences for actually making those statements.

138 CuriousLurker  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:18:41pm

re: #115 May Day! May Day!

Yep, as I said, people are welcome to have a gripe with America whether or not I agree with the legitimacy of the gripe. The fact that they don't like America based on our policies, aspects of our culture,etc. is one thing. However, if someone doesn't like Americans simply becuase of the fact that we're American and they want to lump us all together, then that is anti-Americanism to me.

139 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:19:12pm

re: #135 Simply Sarah

Well, the fact is that it becomes really easy when you have one person up against a half dozen or more people disagreeing. It's a feedback loop. The single person becomes more defensive and the opposition pushes harder to break the defense, all the while feeding on each other.

Yup. There ought to be a book about the phenomenon.

140 erik_t  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:19:19pm

re: #137 Ascher

Surprisingly, there seem to be far lesser consequences for actually making those statements.

Aaaaaaand... full circle!!

141 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:19:38pm

re: #138 CuriousLurker

Yep, as I said, people are welcome to have a gripe with America whether or not I agree with the legitimacy of the gripe. The fact that they don't like America based on our policies, aspects of our culture,etc. is one thing. However, if someone doesn't like Americans simply becuase of the fact that we're American and they want to lump us all together, then that is anti-Americanism to me.

That would lump us together with Snooki and the Kardashians.

142 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:20:02pm

re: #137 Ascher

Surprisingly, there seem to be far lesser consequences for actually making those statements.

Have you actually identified any of these comments yet? Are you still going to claim Jimmah's comments are anti-Israel?

143 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:20:26pm

re: #138 CuriousLurker

Yep, as I said, people are welcome to have a gripe with America whether or not I agree with the legitimacy of the gripe. The fact that they don't like America based on our policies, aspects of our culture,etc. is one thing. However, if someone doesn't like Americans simply becuase of the fact that we're American and they want to lump us all together, then that is anti-Americanism to me.

As a teenager, I got into a fight with someone in a skilift line for calling me "Nixon" and insulting America as a whole. So, I am with you on this.

144 CuriousLurker  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:20:37pm

re: #141 Mostly sane, most of the time.

That would lump us together with Snooki and the Kardashians.

Exactly. *shudder*

145 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:20:44pm

re: #133 Ascher

For G-Ds sake STOP WHINING ALREADY

146 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:21:24pm

I'm anti-Israeli pop music.

147 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:21:36pm

re: #133 Ascher

I asked thecommodore to please explain his downding, and you wnet full bore apeshit; calling me a wingnut and a troll. In the context, I experienced your comments as highly anti-Israel.

thecommodore downdings everything, I don't think it has ever actually made a post.

148 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:21:47pm

re: #142 Millicent Islam

Have you actually identified any of these comments yet? Are you still going to claim Jimmah's comments are anti-Israel?

Accusing me of trolling and wingnuttery on a page supporting Israel, then pointing to my initial post in support of Israel while he defended thecommodore, does indeed qualify his comments as such.

149 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:22:23pm

re: #19 Charles Johnson

I wonder how Mark Twain would feel about sharing space with Rush Limbaugh?

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.--Mark Twain

150 abolitionist  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:22:29pm

re: #94 Romantic Heretic

In other news, Mark Twain, Harry Truman and George Washington Carver rose from the grave to have their names removed from The Hall of Famous Missourians. They have no wish to be associated with Rush in any way.

And Josephine Baker (1906-1975) is still refusing to sing or dance anywhere near Rush.

151 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:22:36pm

re: #148 Ascher

No, it doesn't. It qualifies his comments as anti-you.

152 Kragar  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:23:08pm

FLAG DOWN ON THE THREAD!

Massive butthurt detected.

All thread topics reset back to original post.

Continue play.

153 HappyWarrior  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:23:47pm

re: #150 abolitionist

And Josephine Baker (1906-1975) is still refusing to sing or dance anywhere near Rush.

She wa badass

154 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:23:49pm

re: #148 Ascher

Accusing me of trolling and wingnuttery on a page supporting Israel, then pointing to my initial post in support of Israel while he defended thecommodore, does indeed qualify his comments as such.

You're confusing criticisms of you with criticisms of Israel. Moreover, all your subsequent behaviour, such as this thread, only shows how right he was about you.
You posted it hoping for a certain kind of reaction; in the absence of it you manufactured it.

Also, have an extra fuck you from me.

155 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:24:04pm

re: #133 Ascher

I asked thecommodore to please explain his downding, and you wnet full bore apeshit; calling me a wingnut and a troll. In the context, I experienced your comments as highly anti-Israel.

Bollocks. You immediately accused 00G of having a problem with Israel; I suggested that maybe his problem was with what you added, not the article (or indeed Israel) itself. You then started throwing petty insults at me. THEN, when it was clear what you were up to, I called you a troll.

156 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:24:31pm

re: #151 Obdicut

No, it doesn't. It qualifies his comments as anti-you.

You are entitled to your opinion. I disagree. I am also happy to drop the whole issue at this point.

157 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:25:10pm

re: #153 HappyWarrior

She wa badass

And utterly gorgeous. Seriously beautiful woman throughout her life.

158 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:25:22pm

re: #154 Millicent Islam

Also, have an extra fuck you from me.

Thank you, now my collection of abuse from people I don't give a shit about is complete.

159 shutdown  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:26:53pm

Well, this has been an education. See you all later.

160 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:27:15pm

re: #152 Kragar

FLAG DOWN ON THE THREAD!

Massive butthurt detected.

All thread topics reset back to original post.

Continue play.

Indeed.

161 wrenchwench  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:27:57pm

re: #159 Ascher

Well, this has been an education.

Sadly, I doubt it.

162 Simply Sarah  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:28:37pm

Of course, there were those anti-semantic posts from last night.
/

163 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:28:53pm

If you say the word 'sensitive' to yourself often enough, it becomes really funny.

164 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:29:15pm

re: #161 wrenchwench

Sadly, I doubt it.

You tried, you even offered ointment!

165 Kragar  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:29:28pm

Religious Right Filmmaker: Public school is like "playing Russian Roulette with your children’s souls"

Yesterday, Phyllis Schlafly hosted E. Ray Moore on Eagle Forum Live to discuss the Christian Reconstructionist film, “IndoctriNation,” about the supposedly destructive nature of the public school system. Moore called public schools the “main culprit” on why young adults leave the church, likening it to “playing Russian Roulette with your children’s souls.” Throughout the show he said parents are mandated by the Bible to homeschool their children to place them in Christian schools, saying that while public schools are “godless and pagan by precept and design,” there should be “God in the math class and in the science class as much as in the Bible class.”

166 CuriousLurker  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:32:05pm

Oy vey.

//Don't tell the Brotherhood I said that, m'kay? *looks around nervously*

167 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:32:56pm

Rebekah Brooks learns to her great sorrow that Rupert Murdoch is not the King of Britain:

Rebekah Brooks has expressed anger after she was charged with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice over the phone-hacking inquiry.

168 blueraven  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:35:15pm

weird thread of the day?

169 lawhawk  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:36:20pm

re: #152 Kragar

Well, in the NFL that would be a first down from the spot of the penalty.

In the NHL - that's a 5 minute major. Not quite a game misconduct.

170 wrenchwench  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:38:19pm

re: #168 blueraven

weird thread of the day?

The day is young!

171 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:41:34pm

re: #170 wrenchwench

The day is young!

Btw, there will be a re-launch of the Downding Ointment following some market research into demographics in the next few days ;-)

172 wrenchwench  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:42:52pm

re: #171 Aye Pod

Btw, there will be a re-launch of the Downding Ointment following some market research into demographics in the next few days ;-)

Good. I missed updinging the original launch. And we know how IMPORTANT!!!1 those dings are.

173 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:43:01pm

re: #167 Aye Pod

Broken link.

174 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:43:35pm

re: #172 wrenchwench

Good. I missed updinging the original launch. And we know how IMPORTANT!!!1 those dings are.

I dinged a man in Reno just to watch him die.

175 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:44:52pm

re: #173 Obdicut

Broken link.

Thanks. Don't know what happended there - here it is now:

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

176 Kragar  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:46:13pm

Afternoon Misty Mountain Hop Break

177 Kragar  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:48:59pm

Satan responsible for CA Legislation Limiting Ex-Gay Reparative Therapy

Parshall: It reminds us that this really is spiritual warfare, it may look like a bit of legislation but in the end it’s really the old Deceiver rattling his tail saying, ‘Has God said.’ If you tell somebody they can’t change then we are being reminded by the Father of all Lies that God is not telling us the truth. So it passes out of the Senate Judiciary Committee last week on a vote of 3-1 and it now goes to the Senate floor, and as I understand the legislation it would restrict therapists from providing sexual orientation change counseling, even if a patient seeking such help requests it, it would be illegal to counsel that way. Aside from the obvious, that there seems to be a war on truth, was there a catalyst that spurned the introduction of this legislation?

178 Varek Raith  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:49:58pm

re: #84 Ascher

Yeah, Jimmah's been giving a great accounting of himself in this regard.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Swing and a miss!

179 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:51:25pm

re: #150 abolitionist

And Josephine Baker (1906-1975) is still refusing to sing or dance anywhere near Rush.

Charlie Parker has remained silent on the issue.

180 freetoken  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:51:44pm

This study from last year:

Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life

Despite a growing interest in the ways spiritual beliefs and practices are reflected in brain activity, there have been relatively few studies using neuroimaging data to assess potential relationships between religious factors and structural neuroanatomy. This study examined prospective relationships between religious factors and hippocampal volume change using high-resolution MRI data of a sample of 268 older adults. Religious factors assessed included life-changing religious experiences, spiritual practices, and religious group membership. Hippocampal volumes were analyzed using the GRID program, which is based on a manual point-counting method and allows for semi-automated determination of region of interest volumes. Significantly greater hippocampal atrophy was observed for participants reporting a life-changing religious experience. Significantly greater hippocampal atrophy was also observed from baseline to final assessment among born-again Protestants, Catholics, and those with no religious affiliation, compared with Protestants not identifying as born-again. These associations were not explained by psychosocial or demographic factors, or baseline cerebral volume. Hippocampal volume has been linked to clinical outcomes, such as depression, dementia, and Alzheimer's Disease. The findings of this study indicate that hippocampal atrophy in late life may be uniquely influenced by certain types of religious factors.

is suddenly (well, in the last week or so) popping up again in rss feeds and blog posts. I don't know why; popular news outlet philly.com did republish a story about it this March:

Being 'Born-Again' Linked to More Brain Atrophy: Study

which is being linked by many sites.

Some (facile) anti-religion blogs seem to be pimping it.. but the actual study itself demonstrates non-belief to be related to brain atrophy as well.

181 Daniel Ballard  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:54:27pm

*RWC looks around, sees thread derailed and yet recovering*

Whoa. Just sat down to lunch. Maybe I should have brought a dust pan and broom.

182 darthstar  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:54:40pm
183 darthstar  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:56:35pm

re: #150 abolitionist

And Josephine Baker (1906-1975) is still refusing to sing or dance anywhere near Rush.

Chez Spencer in San Francisco has a drink called the Josephine Baker...my wife loves them. Basically a martini with a couple of white rose petals floating on top. Oh, and the food is to die for...just be prepared to drop at least a couple of bills for two...

184 Kragar  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:57:29pm
186 Gus  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:04:13pm

re: #184 Kragar

CO Rep. Tweets Link To Story On ‘White Nationalist’ Website

187 b_Snark  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:05:13pm

re: #181 Daniel Ballard

*RWC looks around, sees thread derailed and yet recovering*

Whoa. Just sat down to lunch. Maybe I should have brought a dust pan and broom.

Where the heck was the ref?

Next time im bringing my bang stick to encourage order.

188 freetoken  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:05:23pm

Seems we're having a bit of a meltdown on the "nakba" thread.

Oh well...

I did catch the bot "Aigle" on a CAMERA piece which was hyperventilating about that evil BBC. Of all the real problems which exist around this clusterfuck of issues, having to fluff up some imaginary position of a BBC host is just another sign of obsessive behavior.

190 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:08:24pm

re: #189 Varek Raith

REPORT: FBI May Charge George Zimmerman With Hate Crime, Could Face Death Penalty

Wait. I thought the constitution's prohibition against double jeopardy means that he can only stand trial for the death of Martin once?

191 goddamnedfrank  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:08:53pm

Notice how I stayed out this entire thread until now. That's what makes me awesome.

192 Varek Raith  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:09:24pm

re: #191 goddamnedfrank

Notice how I stayed out this entire thread until now. That's what makes me awesome.

No, it makes you late.

193 goddamnedfrank  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:10:02pm

re: #192 Varek Raith

No, it makes you late.

Yes, but fashionably so.

194 Simply Sarah  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:10:12pm

re: #190 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Wait. I thought the constitution's prohibition against double jeopardy means that he can only stand trial for the death of Martin once?

No, it means he cannot be tried on the same charges more than once. In this case, he'd be tried in state court on state charges and in federal court on federal charges.

More specifically, he'd be charged with either murder or manslaughter in Florida (Since that can always change before trial) and a hate crime related to that killing at the federal level.

195 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:10:20pm

re: #180 freetoken

Some (facile) anti-religion blogs seem to be pimping it.. but the actual study itself demonstrates non-belief to be related to brain atrophy as well.

I think (as do Dawkins, Dennet and others) that religious belief must have been adaptive during our evolution, so it doesn't make much sense to me to attribute it to damaged brain function.

196 freetoken  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:12:36pm

re: #195 Aye Pod

I think (as do Dawkins, Dennet and others) that religious belief must have been adaptive during our evolution, so it doesn't make much sense to me to attribute it to damaged brain function.

The question is, why is the particular brain atrophy in question correlating so well with certain beliefs - strong beliefs like Evangelicalism or Atheism, but not so well with the inbetween-ers (such as the current members of historic Protestant churches.)

197 goddamnedfrank  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:14:12pm

re: #195 Aye Pod

I think (as do Dawkins, Dennet and others) that religious belief must have been adaptive during our evolution, so it doesn't make much sense to me to attribute it to damaged brain function.

It can be both. Bear in mind that life expectancy was far shorter through most of human history. What was once an advantage for socio-survival reasons might come at an expense that's only revealed as more and more people begin to live to advanced age.

198 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:15:12pm

re: #190 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Wait. I thought the constitution's prohibition against double jeopardy means that he can only stand trial for the death of Martin once?

I'll leave it to the lawyers, but I understand 'hate crime' to be an enhancement on other charges. Federal Civil Rights Violation charges are different, and sometimes confused. That's what was used to nail Klansmen who had skated on local jury nullifications.

199 darthstar  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:16:28pm

re: #190 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Wait. I thought the constitution's prohibition against double jeopardy means that he can only stand trial for the death of Martin once?

The trial of public opinion doesn't count.

200 b_Snark  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:16:33pm

re: #196 freetoken

The question is, why is the particular brain atrophy in question correlating so well with certain beliefs - strong beliefs like Evangelicalism or Atheism, but not so well with the inbetween-ers (such as the current members of historic Protestant churches.)

Not likely one is the cause of the other. I'd look for a more complex relationship.

201 darthstar  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:17:20pm

re: #199 darthstar

The trial of public opinion doesn't count.

That should have been the trial in the court of public opinion...

202 goddamnedfrank  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:17:54pm

re: #190 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Wait. I thought the constitution's prohibition against double jeopardy means that he can only stand trial for the death of Martin once?

There's a precedent for this. The LAPD officers that were acquitted by the Simi Valley jury in the Rodney King beating case were later charged with violating his civil rights in federal court.

203 b_Snark  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:18:54pm

Tough to post from a tablet with a poor connection.

204 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:20:02pm

re: #203 Cathartic Expression

Tough to post from a tablet with a poor connection.

You need to carve the letters faster. Perhaps a better alloy for your chisel?

205 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:21:15pm

re: #204 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

You need to carve the letters faster. Perhaps a better alloy for your chisel?

Move up to Clay 2.1. Much faster.

206 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:22:14pm

re: #205 Decatur Deb

Move up to Clay 2.1. Much faster.

And with the flamewars the comments are forever.

207 darthstar  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:23:48pm

re: #206 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

And with the flamewars the comments are forever.

Not always...

208 b_Snark  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:23:59pm

Har de har, har.

209 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:24:06pm

re: #196 freetoken

The question is, why is the particular brain atrophy in question correlating so well with certain beliefs - strong beliefs like Evangelicalism or Atheism, but not so well with the inbetween-ers (such as the current members of historic Protestant churches.)

That does seem curious, but I don't think this lends credence to the idea that atheism is a religious belief. and there is this:

These findings may reflect potential cumulative stress associated with being a member of a religious minority. Though religious factors have been associated with positive mental health [59], [76], [77], studies have shown members of religious minority groups may also experience stressors related to these group affiliations

210 Ayeless in Ghazi  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:26:43pm

re: #197 goddamnedfrank

It can be both. Bear in mind that life expectancy was far shorter through most of human history. What was once an advantage for socio-survival reasons might come at an expense that's only revealed as more and more people begin to live to advanced age.

Agreed - a bit like stuffing your face with every bit of sugar and fat that you come across - a good strategy 'back in the day' not so much now.

211 Gus  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:27:36pm

re: #180 freetoken

This study from last year:

Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life

is suddenly (well, in the last week or so) popping up again in rss feeds and blog posts. I don't know why; popular news outlet philly.com did republish a story about it this March:

Being 'Born-Again' Linked to More Brain Atrophy: Study

which is being linked by many sites.

Some (facile) anti-religion blogs seem to be pimping it.. but the actual study itself demonstrates non-belief to be related to brain atrophy as well.

Chicken and the egg? The subjects were all 58 years old and older. This is an "interesting" study but hardly conclusive.

212 CuriousLurker  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:34:15pm

re: #109 Ascher

The point - poorly and inadequately expressed - is that many people hide their anti-Semitism behind apparently objective criticism of Israel.

re: #124 CuriousLurker

I can say the same, "Many people hide their Islamophobia behind apparently objective criticism of of terrorists/radical Islamists." The thing is, I have no way of proving their hidden intent. If I try to do so, then I come off looking hypersensitive and/or possibly end up alienating people who weren't actually hiding any ill intent.

I just want to add that even if it makes you feel better, lashing out over something you can't prove is a no-win situation.

If someone IS concealing anti-Semitism (or Islamophobia, homophobia, racism, etc.), the seemingly objective criticism behind which they've hidden it is probably specifically designed to trigger a defensive reaction in the target, resulting in one or both of the bolded outcomes above. The minute you take the bait and react by making an accusation you cannot possibly prove, you lose. Just sayin'.

213 Gus  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:50:19pm

re: #211 Gus

Chicken and the egg? The subjects were all 58 years old and older. This is an "interesting" study but hardly conclusive.

Furthermore, if you go to Pew you will see that "unaffiliated" includes a wide selection of types:

Unaffiliated total = 16.1%

Which includes

1.6% Atheist
2.4% Agnostic
6.3% Secular unaffiliated
5.8% Religious unaffiliated

The test subject in this study all came from the state of North Carolina aged 58 and above. Religous affiliation there is as follows:

Christian 84%
Evangelical Protestant 41%
Mainline Protestant 21%
Black Protestant 13%
Roman Catholic 9%
Buddhist 1%
Other religions 3%
Irreligious 12%

Irreligious is of course the wrong term and should be called unaffiliated. If this is correct you can also see that at 12% North Carolina has a lower than average unaffiliated population. It also has a rather low Catholic population compared to the nationwide average of 23.9%. Catholic interpretation would also vary within regions. That is. A Catholic from North Carolina is probably more intensely Catholic than say your average Joe from Brooklyn.

214 Mich-again  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:53:44pm

So who paid for the Highway Patrol to work security if it was a closed ceremony?

215 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, May 15, 2012 3:02:33pm

re: #80 Ascher

There is very little room to read 00G's comment as anything but.

Didn't know that being slightly critical of an overly-broad generalization (of specific actors into a "they") was tantamount to being "anti-Israel" in your book. Sorry.

216 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, May 15, 2012 3:23:02pm

re: #91 Ascher

"They", quoted by 00G, in the context of the page, is a finger pointed at alleged "us and them" thinking propagated by Israel.

Uh, no. It was not propagated by Israel but by marjoriemoon in that thread. Nowhere did I say that that kind of thought was propagated by Israel; accusing me so must be based on your own projection, for it surely has no basis in anything I wrote. It's funny that you would accuse me of the overly broad generalizations that I implicitly accused marjoriemoon of, though.


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