SPLC: Family Research Council License-to-Kill Claim ‘Outrageous’

The SPLC lists the FRC as a hate group because it knowingly spreads false, denigrating propaganda about LGBT people
Politics • Views: 25,212

Here’s a statement from Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center, responding to Family Research Council president Tony Perkins’ attempt to get a free pass for the FRC’s long-standing bigotry and hateful propaganda, by blaming the Southern Poverty Law Center for the shooting at the FRC’s DC office. (Bashing the SPLC is always a popular dodge with the far right.)

Yesterday’s attack on the Family Research Council and the shooting of a security guard there was a tragedy. The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) deplores all violence, and our thoughts are with the wounded victim, Leo Johnson, his family and others who lived through the attack.

For more than 40 years, the SPLC has battled against political extremism and political violence. We have argued consistently that violence is no answer to problems in a democratic society, and we have strongly criticized all those who endorse such violence, whether on the political left or the political right.

But this afternoon, FRC President Tony Perkins attacked the SPLC, saying it had encouraged and enabled the attack by labeling the FRC a “hate group.” The attacker, Floyd Corkins, “was given a license to shoot an unarmed man by organizations like the Southern Poverty Law Center,” Perkins said. “I believe the Southern Poverty Law Center should be held accountable for their reckless use of terminology.”

Perkins’ accusation is outrageous. The SPLC has listed the FRC as a hate group since 2010 because it has knowingly spread false and denigrating propaganda about LGBT people — not, as some claim, because it opposes same-sex marriage. The FRC and its allies on the religious right are saying, in effect, that offering legitimate and fact-based criticism in a democratic society is tantamount to suggesting that the objects of criticism should be the targets of criminal violence.

As the SPLC made clear at the time and in hundreds of subsequent statements and press interviews, we criticize the FRC for claiming, in Perkins’ words, that pedophilia is “a homosexual problem” — an utter falsehood, as every relevant scientific authority has stated. An FRC official has said he wanted to “export homosexuals from the United States.” The same official advocated the criminalizing of homosexuality.

Perkins and his allies, seeing an opportunity to score points, are using the attack on their offices to pose a false equivalency between the SPLC’s criticisms of the FRC and the FRC’s criticisms of LGBT people. The FRC routinely pushes out demonizing claims that gay people are child molesters and worse — claims that are provably false. It should stop the demonization and affirm the dignity of all people.

Jump to bottom

357 comments
1 freetoken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 3:44:53pm

The attempt by the FRC to blame the SPLC for the shooting reminds me of the numerous right wing outlets who blame President Obama for their own racism.

2 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 3:44:56pm

Calling out a hate group is a license to shoot? It's the madness of delusion. Nothing less.

3 Kragar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 3:48:19pm

Was the shooter a nutcase? yes.

Does the shooter being a nutcase absolve the FRC from their stance on the issues? No a chance in hell.

4 darthstar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 3:56:26pm
5 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:00:09pm

re: #3 Kragar

The shooters motive according to witness reports was political. Which just muddies up the waters as to how mentally ill this guy might be as opposed to a calculating attempted killer with an agenda on his mind. While rw violence may be the more common type, we obviously have had and can again have violence from those of almost any political persuasion.

But of all the millions who might agree with the shooters point of view, what makes one of them an attempted killer as opposed to just a talker? Our culture must address this.

6 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:02:02pm

Good for the SPLC. Really, there's no justification for violence but Perkins is out of depth for claiming that naming the FRC a hate group was a call to violence.

7 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:02:03pm

Calling a hate group a hate group = license to kill.
Ranting for decades about gays, abortion doctors, etc. = harmless, all-American freedom of speech.

8 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:05:10pm

re: #7 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Calling a hate group a hate group = license to kill.
Ranting for decades about gays, abortion doctors, etc. = harmless, all-American freedom of speech.

Pretty much. Really, my thoughts are with the guard and his family and loved ones, and I'm thankful that he's going to be okay but the FRC has earned the hate group label when Perkins gets his mailing list from David Duke, repeatedly comparing gay and lesbian Americans to pedophiles, etc.

9 RadicalModerate  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:09:40pm

I love the fact that the statement from the FRC came from Tony Perkins.

You know, the guy who used David Duke's mailing list for a political campaign, and who has repeatedly spoken to NeoConfedreate groups like the League of the South, and the Council of Conservative Citizens?

10 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:12:43pm

re: #9 RadicalModerate

I love the fact that the statement from the FRC came from Tony Perkins.

You know, the guy who used David Duke's mailing list for a political campaign, and who has repeatedly spoken to NeoConfedreate groups like the League of the South, and the Council of Conservative Citizens?

Isn't he their president? Really Perkins has no room to call anyone hateful with who he's courted.

11 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:14:59pm

Seeing now that the shooter is from the town I grew up in. Wild.

12 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:17:26pm

saying it had encouraged and enabled the attack by labeling the FRC a “hate group.”

why do you hate america?

13 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:18:18pm

re: #5 Daniel Ballard

The shooters motive according to witness reports was political. Which just muddies up the waters as to how mentally ill this guy might be as opposed to a calculating attempted killer with an agenda on his mind. While rw violence may be the more common type, we obviously have had and can again have violence from those of almost any political persuasion.

But of all the millions who might agree with the shooters point of view, what makes one of them an attempted killer as opposed to just a talker? Our culture must address this.

Nope. We're quite comfortable with the year-to-year body count. The unique character of this election cycle (coughhe'sblackcough) just raises the visibility. There is almost no significant policy directed at 3.14 million people that will not kill some number of us.

14 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:18:53pm
15 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:20:49pm

The AFAs response as well as audio from Perkins Presser.

The Chick Fil-A sandwiches were meant to be calling cards.

Still viewing the video, so can't post more on it.

16 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:20:59pm

re: #13 Decatur Deb

Nope. We're quite comfortable with the year-to-year body count. The unique character of this election cycle (coughhe'sblackcough) just raises the visibility. There is almost no significant policy directed at 3.14 million people that will not kill some number of us.

Well I'm not comfortable with that body count at all. Criminal use of guns is why I desire a CCW permit, which has been denied, as they do to all applications in Los Angeles.

17 RadicalModerate  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:21:04pm

re: #10 HappyWarrior

Isn't he their president? Really Perkins has no room to call anyone hateful with who he's courted.

It's also worth mentioning the fact that Perkins has been quoted as supportive of the actions that convicted domestic terrorist Eric Rudolph (among others) have done. That's right. He thought that bombings and shootings were fully justified.

18 The Ghost of a Benghazi Flea  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:22:25pm

Three words:

Tiller the Killer

This is bullshit. These nutjobs are making an argument of "you guys say you have standards--we don't, but we'll gladly opportunistically interpret your standards, then insist you rigidly and without nuance obey the letter of our interpretation. We'll continue to not have standards...."

19 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:22:34pm

re: #16 Daniel Ballard

Well I'm not comfortable with that body count at all. Criminal use of guns is why I desire a CCW permit, which has been denied, as they do to all applications in Los Angeles.

This is a moderately well-functioning democracy. We get what we vote for.

20 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:22:39pm

re: #17 RadicalModerate

It's also worth mentioning the fact that Perkins has been quoted as supportive of the actions that convicted domestic terrorist Eric Rudolph (among others) have done. That's right. He thought that bombings and shootings were fully justified.

Damn I didn't realize that. Not that it shocks me.

21 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:23:57pm

I haven't seen anything from the left that even closely resembles that way parts of the right reacted after what happened with Brevik in Norway. Really, violence as a political message is always wrong.

22 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:25:57pm

re: #15 Bubblehead II

The AFAs response as well as audio from Perkins Presser.

[Embedded content]

The Chick Fil-A sandwiches were meant to be calling cards.

Still viewing the video, so can't post more on it.

Calling cards?

23 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:26:45pm

re: #14 Daniel Ballard

Oh no. Facepalm and then some...

I know I shouldn't but it made me laugh out loud.

I'd like to know how it happened though because if he wasn't playing with it, I'm not sure how it would go off.

24 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:27:13pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

Calling cards?

[Link: www.psywarrior.com...]

25 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:28:13pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

Calling cards?

Yep 15 sandwiches for 15 bodies. Leave a message you know.

26 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:28:13pm

re: #24 Decatur Deb

[Link: www.psywarrior.com...]

Ah. That sounds plausible.

27 RadicalModerate  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:28:24pm

re: #21 HappyWarrior

I haven't seen anything from the left that even closely resembles that way parts of the right reacted after what happened with Brevik in Norway. Really, violence as a political message is always wrong.

What's worse is that I have seen a lot of the same thing after the Sikh temple shootings, actually being supportive of Wade Michael Page.

28 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:30:07pm

re: #23 William Barnett-Lewis

I know I shouldn't but it made me laugh out loud.

I'd like to know how it happened though because if he wasn't playing with it, I'm not sure how it would go off.

I have heard that can happen in a theater. But then Paul Reubens was only a threat to himself. //

Now we both shouldn't have.

29 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:30:21pm

re: #27 RadicalModerate

What's worse is that I have seen a lot of the same thing after the Sikh temple shootings, actually being supportive of Wade Michael Page.

Agh. Still saddens me knowing about that poor Sikh cabbie who was killed after 9/11 by some hateful fuck who thought he was Muslim. Not that it would have been okay if he had been but damn.

30 darthstar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:30:43pm
31 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:32:08pm
32 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:32:31pm

re: #30 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Man he's just as lame as Mitt. This pick is look more and more bad as we get closer to the convention.

33 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:33:33pm

re: #15 Bubblehead II

That was painful. Killgore, you get to do the next one.

34 darthstar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:33:45pm

re: #32 HappyWarrior

Man he's just as lame as Mitt. This pick is look more and more bad as we get closer to the convention.

It'll all be better when Jesus comes back. --anon lizard

35 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:37:50pm

re: #15 Bubblehead II

The Chick Fil-A sandwiches were meant to be calling cards.

I was afraid of that.

Actually, I was afraid of several different things with those goddamn sandwiches. That was just creepy.

36 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:38:08pm

Dropping off to set up our on-line Florida voter registration certification course. The trip is starting to feel a bit like the Stewart/Colbert Sanity rally.

37 darthstar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:38:48pm
38 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:39:54pm

re: #33 Bubblehead II

That was painful. Killgore, you get to do the next one.

I tried to watch but tapped out after the discussion of hate crime classifications.

39 freetoken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:41:56pm

I'm wondering if in the upcoming four "debates" if these shootings will be addressed.

40 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:44:52pm

Here's the press release from the LGBT rights group Truth Wins Out:

"Truth Wins Out and dozens of major LGBT organizations across the country swiftly condemned yesterday's shooting at Family Research Council headquarters," said Wayne Besen, the group's founder and executive director. "The LGBT community knows all too well the devastating consequences of violence - lesbian, gay, bisexual, and trans people are harassed, threatened, intimidated, beaten, and killed on a daily basis in violent acts of hatred all over the world, simply because of who they are and who they love. That is why -- yesterday, today, and every day -- we stand squarely against violence in all its forms, because violence is never a way to resolve political differences or settle disputes."

"But yesterday's senseless act of violence does not exonerate the Family Research Council and other anti-gay hate groups from the decades they've spent slandering, demonizing, and actively lying about the LGBT community," added John Becker, TWO's Director of Communications. "The Southern Poverty Law Center - a venerable civil rights organization that monitors and documents extremism across the country - rightfully labeled the Family Research Council an anti-gay hate group because of its extensive history of spreading malicious, hateful falsehoods about gay people. FRC is not a hate group because of its public policy views, as Mr. Perkins has alleged. It is a hate group because it earned that designation."

"In his statement today, Tony Perkins expressed appreciation for the LGBT community's swift repudiation of violence but asked us to go further and disavow FRC's hate-group designation. Truth Wins Out cannot do that," concluded Besen. "The Family Research Council says that gays are deviants and pedophiles, strongly promotes fraudulent 'pray-away-the-gay' therapy, calls for the imprisonment of gay people, and says that homosexuality is destructive to society. Perkins cannot be allowed to exploit the sympathy rightfully generated by this inexcusable crime to whitewash his group's ongoing anti-gay activities. If the FRC wants to stop being labeled a hate group, it must stop doing and saying hateful things."

41 darthstar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:44:57pm

re: #39 freetoken

I'm wondering if in the upcoming four "debates" if these shootings will be addressed.

At the rate we're going right now, there will be more than these shootings to discuss.

42 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:45:59pm

re: #40 Interesting Times

Here's the press release from the LGBT rights group Truth Wins Out:

Exactly. But hey Perkins and FRC want to pretend the evil gays and their supporters support violence against them.

43 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:46:11pm

re: #35 SanFranciscoZionist

I was afraid of that.

Actually, I was afraid of several different things with those goddamn sandwiches. That was just creepy.

That was only conjecture on their part at this time. Were they correct? I don't know.

44 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:47:16pm

Blaming this on the SPLC just doesn't work. I think it's very unlikely the shooter paid much attention to the SPLC. If this had been a wingnut there would be the usual finger pointing at Beck, Limbaugh and Tea Party But he's a moonbat and I really don't see any connection to MSNBC or OWS. If I had to guess I would probably blame the general culture of intolerance we have towards each other. He probably wanted to send a message of intimidation and fear to the Family Research Center and Chick Fil A in hopes that they'll somehow go away or at least be quiet. I don't think that's going to happen.

45 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:47:24pm

Paul Ryan in 2004...Clean and Renewable Sources of Energy.

Despite repeated efforts over the past year, Congress has been unable to enact a comprehensive energy bill due to unresolved conflicts on many of its major provisions. I am disappointed at the lack of progress on this measure because it contains multiple provisions that would incentivize the development and use of new sources of energy that are both clean and renewable. I believe that it is essential that we develop renewable energy sources because it would limit our dependence on foreign sources of energy, such as crude oil and natural gas, while also providing significant environmental benefits.

46 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:48:18pm

re: #43 Bubblehead II

That was only conjecture on their part at this time. Were they correct? I don't know.

None of the explanations I can think of make me feel less skeeved out. Some of them more.

47 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:49:04pm

re: #43 Bubblehead II

That was only conjecture on their part at this time. Were they correct? I don't know.

It's better than anything I thought of. My best guess is he was going to forcefeed them to some executive or something.

48 freetoken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:51:53pm

re: #45 Gus

I'm getting the impression that over the years Ryan has been converted to actually believing the tea he's been forced to drink. His fascination with Ayn Rand may have only been one of those things that young people do in their college years, but as he has aged Ryan has become more and more that about which he fantasized.

49 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:53:32pm

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

On another note, seems like you were absolutely right about the security guard - this is the picture of him that was shown on the news tonight:

Image: 311878_10151113061813734_33665125_n.jpg

So he's the one who saves the asses of David Duke aficionados? It's like goldy, silvery, or bronzy but made of iron.

50 kirghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:53:33pm

re: #23 William Barnett-Lewis

I know I shouldn't but it made me laugh out loud.

I'd like to know how it happened though because if he wasn't playing with it, I'm not sure how it would go off.

Guessing, only: he did not have the thumbstrap or cover of his holster fastened, and he slouched in his seat.

I've seen it with a number of waist-band mounted containers - cellphone cases, that sort of thing, so it wouldn't surprise me.

51 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:53:39pm
52 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:57:59pm

re: #48 freetoken

I'm getting the impression that over the years Ryan has been converted to actually believing the tea he's been forced to drink. His fascination with Ayn Rand may have only been one of those things that young people do in their college years, but as he has aged Ryan has become more and more that about which he fantasized.

it shows his intellectual shallowness - he only found out enough about rand to know that she worshipped laissez faire

as for anything else, he couldn't be troubled to read as much about her as could be found in her wikipedia article, much less contemplate the implications of the fact that john galt declared himself a superior human being who was above lesser mortals

53 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:59:39pm

re: #23 William Barnett-Lewis

I know I shouldn't but it made me laugh out loud.

I'd like to know how it happened though because if he wasn't playing with it, I'm not sure how it would go off.

You know how they describe some guns as having a hair trigger? Well this gun had another body part trigger.

54 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:01:21pm

re: #48 freetoken

I'm getting the impression that over the years Ryan has been converted to actually believing the tea he's been forced to drink. His fascination with Ayn Rand may have only been one of those things that young people do in their college years, but as he has aged Ryan has become more and more that about which he fantasized.

More:

Last year, I opposed the Administration’s plan to make regulatory changes to the Clean Water Act that would have sharply reduced the number of wetlands and streams that were protected by federal law. I am pleased that the Administration changed its position on the issue and has now begun to work actively to protect and restore wetlands in the United States. In fact, on Earth Day 2004, the President announced an aggressive new plan to create, improve, and protect at least three million wetland acres over the next five years in order to increase overall wetland acres and quality. The plan will be supported by the inclusion of $4.4 billion for conservation programs that include funding for wetlands in the Fiscal Year (FY) 2005 budget request. This represents an increase of $1.5 billion (53%) over FY 2001. The FY 2005 budget proposes to spend $349 million on our two key wetlands programs, the Wetlands Reserve Program and the North American Wetlands Conservation Act Grants Program. This represents an increase of more than 50% over FY 2001 for these two important programs.

And:

I have signed on as a cosponsor to H.R. 2720, the Great Lakes Restoration Act, which would authorize $4 billion in funding over a 5 year period to help the states move forward with clean-up projects, control the spread of invasive species, and curtail the loss of wildlife habitat. The funding would be distributed as a block grant to a Great Lakes Advisory Board of governors, mayors, federal representatives, and others who would allocate the funding to each state. At least one project would be funded in each Great Lakes state per year. The states would be responsible for providing matching funds for the projects. This bill is extremely important for states such as Wisconsin, where we continue to face beach closures and contamination problems.

55 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:02:32pm

re: #36 Decatur Deb

Dropping off to set up our on-line Florida voter registration certification course. The trip is starting to feel a bit like the Stewart/Colbert Sanity rally.

Course is bumped back for a couple hours. What Dems lack in consistency, they make up in unpredictability.

56 freetoken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:04:12pm

re: #54 Gus

He's doing what a Representative is supposed to do - fight for his constituents. In this case, Wisconsin borders two Great Lakes, has numerous wetlands, etc.

However, in what can only be described as programmed group schizophrenia, the tea-partying talking points don't allow for any of that, and forces Representatives to not actually represent the totality of their constituencies.

57 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:04:54pm

re: #5 Daniel Ballard

The shooters motive according to witness reports was political. Which just muddies up the waters as to how mentally ill this guy might be as opposed to a calculating attempted killer with an agenda on his mind. While rw violence may be the more common type, we obviously have had and can again have violence from those of almost any political persuasion.

But of all the millions who might agree with the shooters point of view, what makes one of them an attempted killer as opposed to just a talker? Our culture must address this.

It's not really something the culture as a whole can address, save finding some way to turn down the temperature of rhetoric in America. What makes someone decide to kill is fairly complex and sometimes does not give warning signs sufficient to allow action to be taken.

58 Lidane  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:05:40pm

re: #45 Gus

Paul Ryan in 2004...Clean and Renewable Sources of Energy.

Pfft. That was in 2004 when there was a Republican POTUS.

59 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:07:01pm

re: #56 freetoken

He's doing what a Representative is supposed to do - fight for his constituents. In this case, Wisconsin borders two Great Lakes, has numerous wetlands, etc.

However, in what can only be described as programmed group schizophrenia, the tea-partying talking points don't allow for any of that, and forces Representatives to not actually represent the totality of their constituencies.

This is from now...

...I will continue to support responsible efforts that get us off of our addiction to fossil fuels. I have supported a recent proposal to establish a national renewable portfolio standard (RPS) for electric suppliers, which would move us toward greater use of renewable energy resources for our electricity needs. This policy, which builds on a RPS already in place in the Wisconsin, is an important tool that will diversify our country’s energy portfolio, provide consumers with environmentally friendly and cost effective electricity, and encourage investment in alternative energy producing technology.

I will to fight for the environmental health of the Great Lakes, which has seen increasingly dangerous threats in recent years. The Great Lakes contain nearly 20 percent of the world’s freshwater and supply more than 30 million Americans with their daily drinking water. Because of their great importance to our nation and our State, it is essential that we do all we can to protect the lakes. I have cosponsored legislation to enact a comprehensive set of environmental protection initiatives, including measures to prevent pollution, control invasive species, and curtail the loss of wildlife habitats...

60 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:07:25pm

Ryan's typical. Big government isn't an issue when Republicans are in the WH but all of sudden we elect a Democrat and he's so concerned. Really I thought he would be more consistent than Romney but he seems to be cut from the same cloth of being an opportunist.

61 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:15:09pm

re: #60 HappyWarrior

Ryan's typical. Big government isn't an issue when Republicans are in the WH but all of sudden we elect a Democrat and he's so concerned. Really I thought he would be more consistent than Romney but he seems to be cut from the same cloth of being an opportunist.

The 'small government' meme is a product of the Tea Party's self induced Randian spawned psychosis.

62 OhNoBenghazi!  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:15:29pm

I'm sure I'm not the only person in the world who couldn't get past the first chapter of Atlas Shrugged? I opened the book, and my eyes glazed over. Same thing with Pride and Prejudice.
Am I really supposed to believe Ryan read it?
Because I don't.

63 freetoken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:16:19pm

I'm drifting off topic... but since we're covering hypocrisy and people not owning up to what they really believe:

Vouchers give parents freedom

There is just one problem with the Interfaith Alliance president's charge that Gov. Bobby Jindal's school voucher program is "a blatant attack on the religious freedom clauses in the United States Constitution" ("Minister criticizes Jindal on vouchers," Aug. 7, The News-Star). And the problem for the Rev. C. Welton Gaddy's reasoning is the United States Supreme Court ruled 10 years ago that vouchers don't violate the First Amendment bar against an establishment of religion so long as parents have a range of choice among secular and religious schools.

In short, the vouchers constitute aid to parents in choosing the kind of education they want for their children. They are about expanding freedom, not restricting it. The scholarships don't take sides in evolution versus creationism or any other debate.

The Jindal program trusts parents to make their own decisions about what teaching methods, values and world views they want to be front and center where their children go to school.

Robert Holland
Senior Fellow for education policy, The Heartland Institute
Chicago

While most here identify (rightly) The Heartland Institute with malicious climate-change denialism, they have long been part of the right wing reactionary industry.

64 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:16:24pm

re: #62 OhNoZombies!

I'm sure I'm not the only person in the world who couldn't get past the first chapter of Atlas Shrugged? I opened the book, and my eyes glazed over. Same thing with Pride and Prejudice.
Am I really supposed to believe Ryan read it?
Because I don't.

I had to read The Fountainhead in high school. Had similar feelings. Really her heroes like Howard Roark are jokes.

65 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:18:37pm

re: #62 OhNoZombies!

I'm sure I'm not the only person in the world who couldn't get past the first chapter of Atlas Shrugged? I opened the book, and my eyes glazed over. Same thing with Pride and Prejudice.
Am I really supposed to believe Ryan read it?
Because I don't.

You did it wrong. If you start with the much thinner Fountainhead you realize that it's all crazy shit and go on to John Dos Passos.

66 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:19:07pm

re: #56 freetoken

He's doing what a Representative is supposed to do - fight for his constituents. In this case, Wisconsin borders two Great Lakes, has numerous wetlands, etc.

However, in what can only be described as programmed group schizophrenia, the tea-partying talking points don't allow for any of that, and forces Representatives to not actually represent the totality of their constituencies.

Its not schizophrenia so much as an attempt to force Republican members of Congress to act in unison along certain policy lines. The reason is in part that if localism is allowed to prevail on federal projects, then very few would be cut or not approved. The discipline that is thus sought is somewhat artificial, but discipline often is anyways.

67 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:19:27pm

BBL

68 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:19:46pm

Despite many negative reviews, Atlas Shrugged became an international bestseller, and in an interview with Mike Wallace, Rand declared herself "the most creative thinker alive"

by the time rand wrote atlas shrugged, it seems she had been addicted to amphetamines for 20 years, and as we can see she was babbling like a cokehead

69 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:21:27pm

there are things about ayn rand that i admire, but in the end i think she was a shallow thinker who became an egomaniac when her books went viral and all the speed and hero worship went to her head

70 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:22:27pm
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other is about hobbits.
71 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:23:25pm

re: #70 Learned Mother of Zion

Hahaha. it's funny cuz its true.

72 dragonath  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:23:59pm

re: #64 HappyWarrior

I had to read The Fountainhead in high school. Had similar feelings. Really her heroes like Howard Roark are jokes.

The Fountainhead was made into a movie with Gary Cooper in the lead role. I guess her fans have been around for a while.

She wrote the screenplay too.

73 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:25:01pm

re: #72 dragonath

The Fountainhead was made into a movie with Gary Cooper in the lead role. I guess her fans have been around for a while.

She wrote the screenplay too.

Yeah saw in the same class I had to read the book for. What an unbelievably bad movie.

74 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:25:11pm

re: #16 Daniel Ballard

Well I'm not comfortable with that body count at all. Criminal use of guns is why I desire a CCW permit, which has been denied, as they do to all applications in Los Angeles.

I just have to know. Is there a real belief that carrying a gun hidden away in a pocket or holster will save the life of the carrier or prevent an attack through deterrence?

We had an American ex-cop in Calgary complain that he and his wife were threatened by a couple of menacing 'have you been to the Calgary Stampede yet?' thugs so he should have been able to carry a gun with him.

I can't quite understand what he would have done to these two harmless drunks asking him if he had enjoyed the city's hospitality. Shoot them? Wave his gun at them? Tell them he had a gun?

What did he really think he would have done with that gun that would have improved the outcome, which btw was completely benign.

75 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:25:25pm

re: #68 engineer cat

Despite many negative reviews, Atlas Shrugged became an international bestseller,

Selling hate is always going to be popular (see FOX, Limbaugh).

Also, you can pretty much never go wrong by telling people who aren't particularly clever or well-liked that their real problem is that everyone else is jealous of how awesome they are.

76 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:27:44pm

re: #62 OhNoZombies!

I'm sure I'm not the only person in the world who couldn't get past the first chapter of Atlas Shrugged? I opened the book, and my eyes glazed over. Same thing with Pride and Prejudice.
Am I really supposed to believe Ryan read it?
Because I don't.

I suspect it fit his preconceived bias.

77 OhNoBenghazi!  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:28:57pm

re: #68 engineer cat

Ha!
She devoted all of the powers of he mind to make a creative door-stop for my den.

78 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:29:56pm
79 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:30:23pm

re: #76 b_sharp

I suspect it fit his preconceived bias.

It shouldn't have. Residual Catholicism is what made it so obnoxious to me, back in the Pleistocene.

80 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:30:46pm

Great. Another freaking trap. So now Paul Ryan's mom will be free to say whatever stupid shit she can think of and we have to worry about "YOU CAN'T PICK ON HIS MOM!!11ty"

81 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:33:15pm

Using Mom will help him as much as using Ann helped Mitt. They'll try to paint Mrs. Ryan as a "typical senior" when she is not.

82 OhNoBenghazi!  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:34:16pm

re: #76 b_sharp

I'm sure it did, and that's why he got the Clift Notes.
:)

83 dragonath  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:34:52pm

re: #78 Gus

[Embedded content]

...kinky!

84 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:35:38pm

Is Atlas Shrugs in the public domain yet? I'd like to give it a try, but I don't want to pay for it.

85 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:35:50pm

Since we're seemingly OT...

86 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:36:49pm

re: #84 b_sharp

Is Atlas Shrugs in the public domain yet? I'd like to give it a try, but I don't want to pay for it.

If you try, you will pay for it.

87 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:37:45pm

re: #86 Decatur Deb

If you try, you will pay for it.

My brain is already broken.

88 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:38:53pm
89 erik_t  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:38:54pm

Ever notice how politicians whose masters allow them to compromise are so rarely found lying about and covering up their previous positions?

Why is that?

/

90 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:39:08pm

Night Lizards.

91 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:39:18pm

re: #87 b_sharp

My brain is already broken.

Not so broken that you don't know that it's broken.

92 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:39:24pm

re: #85 Gus

Since we're seemingly OT...

[Embedded content]

What?

93 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:40:13pm

re: #91 Decatur Deb

Not so broken that you don't know that it's broken.

What?

94 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:40:19pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

It's better than anything I thought of. My best guess is he was going to forcefeed them to some executive or something.

Admitting this: I had a horrible vision of him leaving them stuffed into the mouths of the bodies he left behind.

95 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:40:30pm

re: #92 b_sharp

What?

What?

96 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:41:04pm

re: #95 Gus

What?

Say what?

97 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:41:09pm

re: #88 Gus

[Embedded content]

re: #90 Bubblehead II

Night Lizards.

Coincidence?

/

98 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:41:18pm

re: #94 SanFranciscoZionist

Admitting this: I had a horrible vision of him leaving them stuffed into the mouths of the bodies he left behind.

and dance around naked in his murdershack yelling about IT PUTS THE LOTION ON ITS SKIN?

99 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:42:17pm

re: #93 b_sharp

What?

It's a paraphrase from The Englishman Who Went Up a Hill and Came
Down a Mountain.
"They're tup, but not so tup as not to know they're tup."

100 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:43:18pm

re: #62 OhNoZombies!

I'm sure I'm not the only person in the world who couldn't get past the first chapter of Atlas Shrugged? I opened the book, and my eyes glazed over. Same thing with Pride and Prejudice.
Am I really supposed to believe Ryan read it?
Because I don't.

Some people read it cover to cover repeatedly. Most of them are in high school, granted, or maybe the first year of college.

101 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:44:23pm

re: #65 Decatur Deb

You did it wrong. If you start with the much thinner Fountainhead you realize that it's all crazy shit and go on to John Dos Passos.

I started with "Anthem". It's decent Commie Dystopia, but not nearly as good as "1984", or even better "We".

I never got further than "Anthem", because the closing chapter of that made me mad enough to break things.

102 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:45:30pm

re: #94 SanFranciscoZionist

Admitting this: I had a horrible vision of him leaving them stuffed into the mouths of the bodies he left behind.

Sick fucks are sick fucks, they need to be cared for. Without a reasonable mental health system, this kind of stuff is going to continue to happen in the US.

Why does the US have such a problem following the dozens of other countries with Gov run health systems and fewer violent incidences?

103 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:46:05pm

re: #98 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

and dance around naked in his murdershack yelling about IT PUTS THE LOTION ON ITS SKIN?

OK, I've seen a few too many episodes of "Criminal Minds". It was what occurred to me.

104 erik_t  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:46:17pm

Well, this is just fuckin' brilliant.

CU to segregate dorms for students with concealed carry permits

The University of Colorado Boulder and University of Colorado at Colorado Springs are amending their student housing contracts, segregating students who possess a valid concealed weapons carry permit.

The university said Thursday that both campuses will establish a residential area for students over the age of 21 with a permit. In all other dormitories, guns will be banned, the new policy states.

At least they're trying to keep the True Believer nutters away from the rest of us.

105 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:46:45pm

re: #99 Decatur Deb

It's a paraphrase from The Englishman Who Went Up a Hill and Came
Down a Mountain.
"They're tup, but not so tup as not to know they're tup."

That Englishman lied.

106 freetoken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:47:25pm

re: #84 b_sharp

Is Atlas Shrugs in the public domain yet? I'd like to give it a try, but I don't want to pay for it.

There's always ... well, you know... it's out there.

107 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:47:48pm

re: #104 erik_t

Well, this is just fuckin' brilliant.

At least they're trying to keep the True Believer nutters away from the rest of us.

Brilliant plan. Student housing shortages will be helped by the turnover.

108 erik_t  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:48:09pm

re: #106 freetoken

There's always ... well, you know... it's out there.

You mean the library?

109 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:48:41pm

re: #62 OhNoZombies!

I'm sure I'm not the only person in the world who couldn't get past the first chapter of Atlas Shrugged?

At about 17, I successfully read "The Virtue of Selfishness" and afterward tried to read Atlas Shrugged, and made it 10 or 15 pages in. I remember almost none of any of it. I suppose it's for the best. "Atlas" just seemed immediately tedious and the "flow" of the writing had the feel of a badly-translated foreign-language novel.

110 compound_Idaho  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:48:47pm

re: #63 freetoken

I'm drifting off topic... but since we're covering hypocrisy and people not owning up to what they really believe:

Vouchers give parents freedom

While most here identify (rightly) The Heartland Institute with malicious climate-change denialism, they have long been part of the right wing reactionary industry.

Pell grants are vouchers.

111 bratwurst  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:48:48pm

re: #101 SanFranciscoZionist

I started with "Anthem". It's decent Commie Dystopia, but not nearly as good as "1984", or even better "We".

I never got further than "Anthem", because the closing chapter of that made me mad enough to break things.

Wow, that is my Ayn Rand experience exactly. I was 14 and started getting into Anthem as I read, but even at that age I was astounded at how full of shit the ending was. I have never wasted one more minute of my life reading another word she ever wrote.

112 freetoken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:48:49pm

re: #108 erik_t

You mean the library?

If you insist on the dead tree versions...

113 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:49:04pm

re: #108 erik_t

You mean the library?

I don't do libraries. Not since the Internet took over my life.

114 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:49:15pm

re: #105 b_sharp

That Englishman lied.

Great movie. The epilogue catches you up short.

115 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:49:50pm

re: #104 erik_t

Hopefully with kevlar "insulation" in the walls?

116 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:51:26pm

re: #114 Decatur Deb

Great movie. The epilogue catches you up short.

I cried tears of joy when they took that sad little hill and grew it into a mighty mountain.

117 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:51:45pm

re: #80 Gus

Great. Another freaking trap. So now Paul Ryan's mom will be free to say whatever stupid shit she can think of and we have to worry about "YOU CAN'T PICK ON HIS MOM!!11ty"

118 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:51:51pm

re: #101 SanFranciscoZionist

I never got further than "Anthem", because the closing chapter of that made me mad enough to break things.

Can you summarize it? I'm curious what would get you so riled up, but don't want to inflict it on myself.

119 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:53:03pm

re: #118 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Can you summarize it? I'm curious what would get you so riled up, but don't want to inflict it on myself.

The cat gets out of the bag, all by itself.

120 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:53:30pm

re: #117 Gus

[Embedded content]

She's as arrogant as hubby is.

121 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:53:49pm

Touré said something.

122 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:55:42pm

re: #121 Gus

Touré said something.

Here's how.

123 freetoken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:56:01pm

re: #117 Gus

I see she's attended the Marie Antoinette School of Public Relations.

124 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:56:04pm

re: #121 Gus

Touré said something.

Touré's syndrome said shit.

125 Lidane  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:56:19pm

re: #62 OhNoZombies!

I'm sure I'm not the only person in the world who couldn't get past the first chapter of Atlas Shrugged? I opened the book, and my eyes glazed over.

I read The Fountainhead a couple of times, but Atlas Shrugged was painfully overwrought and awful. I hated that book. By the time I got to John Galt's 389568934756 page manifesto I'd given up on it and ended up selling it to Half-Price Books later.

My college-aged Ayn Rand phase mostly centered on her collections of political writing like The Virtue of Selfishness. Her novels are terrible.

126 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:56:50pm

re: #124 b_sharp

Touré's syndrome said shit.

Touré has tourettes?

//

127 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:57:21pm

re: #101 SanFranciscoZionist

I started with "Anthem". It's decent Commie Dystopia, but not nearly as good as "1984", or even better "We".

I never got further than "Anthem", because the closing chapter of that made me mad enough to break things.

Wait, what? Are we doppelgangers? I liked "Anthem" for its creative use of narration using plural pronouns, but the ending sucked. The protagonist discovered the singular pronoun!

Also, "Anthem" was a decent length for an 8th grader.

In 9th grade, I discovered Tolkien, that was way more fun than Atlas shrugging.

128 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:57:30pm

re: #80 Gus

Great. Another freaking trap. So now Paul Ryan's mom will be free to say whatever stupid shit she can think of and we have to worry about "YOU CAN'T PICK ON HIS MOM!!11ty"

Maybe she and Ann can go on TV and wag their collective finger at Vladimir Putin and Dinnerjacket. Then they wouldn't be able to say or do ANYTHING. Ha! Take THAT, buttholes!

129 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:57:42pm

re: #118 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Can you summarize it? I'm curious what would get you so riled up, but don't want to inflict it on myself.

A plural pronoun discovers the singular.

130 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:58:34pm

re: #125 Lidane

I read The Fountainhead a couple of times, but Atlas Shrugged was painfully overwrought and awful. I hated that book. By the time I got to John Galt's 389568934756 page manifesto I'd given up on it and ended up selling it to Half-Price Books later.

My college-aged Ayn Rand phase mostly centered on her collections of political writing like The Virtue of Selfishness. Her novels are terrible.

I never had an Ayn Rand phase, although I did have a Marx phase.

131 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:59:05pm

Awesome...

132 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:59:06pm

re: #103 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, I've seen a few too many episodes of "Criminal Minds". It was what occurred to me.

The only thing I like about "Criminal Minds" is Penelope Garcia, but I always wonder what she wore to her FBI job interview, and what color her hair and her glasses were that day.

133 darthstar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:59:20pm

re: #130 b_sharp

I never had an Ayn Rand phase, although I did have a Marx phase.

Groucho or Harpo?

134 darthstar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:00:00pm

re: #131 Gus

Awesome...

[Embedded content]

Tell clean beef he's got a misused comma.

135 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:00:06pm

re: #111 bratwurst

Wow, that is my Ayn Rand experience exactly. I was 14 and started getting into Anthem as I read, but even at that age I was astounded at how full of shit the ending was. I have never wasted one more minute of my life reading another word she ever wrote.

Well, I was thirty-four, but other than that, we seem to have been on the same track.

:)

136 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:00:27pm

re: #127 Learned Mother of Zion

Wait, what? Are we doppelgangers? I liked "Anthem" for its creative use of narration using plural pronouns, but the ending sucked. The protagonist discovered the singular pronoun!

Also, "Anthem" was a decent length for an 8th grader.

In 9th grade, I discovered Tolkien, that was way more fun than Atlas shrugging.

If Frodo were a Randian, he'd have sold the ring on eBay and split for a private island.

137 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:00:30pm

re: #129 Learned Mother of Zion

A plural pronoun discovers the singular.

A black hole?

138 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:00:34pm

re: #134 darthstar

Tell clean beef he's got a misused comma.

Apparently the FRC has something to do with veterans. Who knew!

//

139 Lidane  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:01:31pm

re: #68 engineer cat

by the time rand wrote atlas shrugged, it seems she had been addicted to amphetamines for 20 years, and as we can see she was babbling like a cokehead

Finding out that she'd been addicted to speed for most of the time that she was writing her books explains a hell of a lot, especially when you try to parse the bullshit that is Objectivism.

140 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:02:07pm

re: #134 darthstar

Tell clean beef he's got a misused comma.

but don't mention anything to 0xDEADBEEF or 0xfeeefeee!

141 freetoken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:02:09pm

re: #134 darthstar

Tell clean beef he's got a misused comma.

Even with corrected grammar the statement is false.

142 Lidane  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:03:43pm

re: #133 darthstar

Groucho or Harpo?

Richard. It was the mullet. ;)

143 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:04:10pm

re: #133 darthstar

Groucho or Harpo?

Yup!

All six of them.

144 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:05:34pm

The sacred word: EGGO

They opened a Waffle House!

145 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:05:36pm

re: #139 Lidane

Finding out that she'd been addicted to speed for most of the time that she was writing her books explains a hell of a lot, especially when you try to parse the bullshit that is Objectivism.

It sounds like the philosophical meanderings of a 15 year old.

146 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:07:24pm

re: #125 Lidane

By the time I got to John Galt's 389568934756 page manifesto I'd given up on it and ended up selling it to Half-Price Books later.

Every time I sell an awful book to HPB, I feel a weird mix of embarrassment and compunction: embarrassment for proving that I once owned the awful book, and compunction that I'm now foisting it off on them so that they can theoretically inflict the same misery onto someone else.

147 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:08:15pm

re: #131 Gus

Awesome...

[Embedded content]

The FRC attack has really stirred up the loons - I've gotten several hate mails too.

148 Lidane  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:08:19pm

re: #145 b_sharp

It sounds like the philosophical meanderings of a 15 year old.

Ever listen to a person who's high when they try to get philosophical?

Yeah, it's exactly like that.

149 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:08:23pm

re: #146 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Every time I sell an awful book to HPB, I feel a weird mix of embarrassment and compunction: embarrassment for proving that I once owned the awful book, and compunction that I'm now foisting it off on them so that they can theoretically inflict the same misery onto someone else.

You can always stick a note between the pages explaining why you think it sucks.

150 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:08:33pm

i think ayn rand had an interesting biography - she managed to leave the young soviet union in her mid 20s after getting a university education, and worked in hollywood for years, writing some screenplays and stageplays that were produced, and apparently working as head of the RKO costume department for a while in the 1930s. she stood up for the right to abortion and took other radical stances such as declaring her atheism

i think her shallowness as a thinker worked for her, since the fountainhead hit a nerve and became a bestseller with, i think, just the right amount of "seriousness" but not enough to strain the brain. a movie version starring gary cooper was made soon after

but that made her a rich and famous speed freak, and she became surrounded by acolytes and other varieties of butt kissers, and as we have seen it went to her head. i think the only thing she wrote after that was atlas shrugged

151 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:08:59pm

re: #147 Charles Johnson

The FRC attack has really stirred up the loons - I've gotten several hate mails too.

Are we due for another installment of "we've got mail?" :)

152 Stanghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:10:48pm

O/T: My religious brother floored me tonight in a phone call. He works with the homeless, doing all sorts of things including providing free ID getting help - they bring their laptops and apply for whatever birth cert etc. is needed from any state and then pay for it (I've mentioned before, but look it up, iDignity)

Well, in the past he has opined on Obama very negatively, I guess based on his strict religious views (brainwashing)

Well today he was totally praising the President for the directive that provides $$ for homeless vets to get apartments. He's placed 4 of them already.

Nice Bro.

153 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:11:03pm

It's not all fire and brimstone in Alabama religion:

[Link: www.google.com...]

154 Stanghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:14:58pm

re: #153 Decatur Deb

It's not all fire and brimstone in Alabama religion:

[Link: www.google.com...]

Flora-Bama Lounge, Package and Oyster Bar. What a name.

155 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:15:28pm

re: #152 Stanley Sea

Well today he was totally praising the President for the directive that provides $$ for homeless vets to get apartments. He's placed 4 of them already.

Well done.

There should not be such a thing as "homeless vets", unless we mean "veterinarians", and even then I'm not so sure.

156 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:15:49pm

re: #154 Stanley Sea

Flora-Bama Lounge, Package and Oyster Bar. What a name.

for a church.

157 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:16:35pm

re: #155 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Well done.

There should not be such a thing as "homeless vets", unless we mean "veterinarians", and even then I'm not so sure.

My brother-in-law is a homeless radiology specialist.

158 Sionainn  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:17:13pm

re: #130 b_sharp

I never had an Ayn Rand phase, although I did have a Marx phase.

I have never read an Ayn Rand book. Sounds like I wasn't missing much.

159 darthstar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:17:25pm
160 freetoken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:18:36pm

re: #147 Charles Johnson

The FRC attack has really stirred up the loons - I've gotten several hate mails too.

It plays into their current favorite meme - Big Gay Evil is victimizing Christians.

161 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:19:04pm

re: #157 Learned Mother of Zion

My brother-in-law is a homeless radiology specialist.

How is that possible? Mental illness?

162 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:19:08pm

re: #158 Sionainn

I have never read an Ayn Rand book. Sounds like I wasn't missing much.

You have saved hours of your life for something worthwhile and valuable.

163 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:19:19pm

Baby juice.

164 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:19:32pm

re: #161 b_sharp

How is that possible? Mental illness?

He claims it is a benign pathology.

165 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:20:21pm

re: #160 freetoken

It plays into their current favorite meme - Big Gay Evil is victimizing Christians.

Poor Christians are losing some of their privilege.

166 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:20:53pm

re: #163 Gus

Baby juice.

Baby juice whale.

167 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:20:55pm

re: #118 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Can you summarize it? I'm curious what would get you so riled up, but don't want to inflict it on myself.

I haven't read it in about five years, and I don't recall all the details well, but here's what I remember. It's a futuristic dystopia where language has been stripped of the words 'I', and we only speak of 'we', and 'us'. People have been reduced to drones, family is gone, art is gone, individuality is gone, sex only takes place in quasi-forced arrangements for reproductive purposes. One individual somehow IIRC, finds a stash of pre-all-of-this writings, and reads and writes. He connects with a girl, and in the end they run off to the woods together to get away from the commie dystopia.

What blew it for me is that in the end...well, several things. He sheds the name and number given to him by the society, and renames himself Prometheus. Fair enough, heavy handed, but clear. Then he announces that his girlfriend will be Gaia. And she says "That will be my name".

Then he thinks happy thoughts to himself about how his sons will be free men. And ends by putting up a sign that says EGO over his new door. EGO is the last word of the book.

So, EGO is the Holy Grail, but only for boys. He names himself, in an act of individualism, but she gets her name given to her by him, as he looks forward to a lovely life of being a head of household in the woods. They have sex shortly before this, and it's lovely, even though she's a virgin, and he's only ever done it under the animalistic conditions imposed by the old society. Or at least, it's lovely for him. We don't hear from her. And he's very happy that she's a virgin, because it's kept her PURE from the horrible way they have sex at home--despite this being a man who should have no cultural attachment to virginity whatsoever. (At least Huxley and Orwell understood that how a man thinks about sex is dependent on what he's been told about it.)

At the end, he is free. She's exchanged one master for another. And I don't think Rand even notices. It's this self-conscious paean to individualism that ends up with Individual and Mrs. Individual, happy ever after. The happy ending for a man is freedom and the happy ending for a woman is a man whose socks she can wash.

And then I threw the book across the room.

168 freetoken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:21:00pm

I suspect this will get continue to get top billing on some right wing outlets:

Former special forces officers slam Obama over leaks on bin Laden killing

169 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:21:34pm

re: #164 Learned Mother of Zion

He claims it is a benign pathology.

If it puts him on the street it isn't benign.

170 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:21:45pm

re: #130 b_sharp

I never had an Ayn Rand phase, although I did have a Marx phase.

Marx wrote much better. And thought much better. And had a better beard.

171 darthstar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:21:48pm

re: #168 freetoken

I suspect this will get continue to get top billing on some right wing outlets:

Former special forces officers slam Obama over leaks on bin Laden killing

Fine...keep reminding America that Obama killed bin Laden.

172 Sionainn  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:22:07pm

re: #162 Learned Mother of Zion

You have saved hours of your life for something worthwhile and valuable.

Excellent! I was always wondering if I was a slacker for not having read it. I feel so much better now.

173 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:22:15pm

re: #166 b_sharp

Baby juice whale.

Porcelain.

174 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:22:22pm

re: #167 SanFranciscoZionist

The whole text is available online if you have a bunch of time to waste.

And to think she wrote this shit while Hitler was trampling over Germany.

175 JamesWI  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:22:43pm

re: #158 Sionainn

I have never read an Ayn Rand book. Sounds like I wasn't missing much.

I own at least one Ayn Rand book because I was taking a "Philosophy in Literature" class in college. Luckily, we never got to it, and I never had to read it.

176 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:23:29pm

re: #167 SanFranciscoZionist

I haven't read it in about five years, and I don't recall all the details well, but here's what I remember. It's a futuristic dystopia where language has been stripped of the words 'I', and we only speak of 'we', and 'us'. People have been reduced to drones, family is gone, art is gone, individuality is gone, sex only takes place in quasi-forced arrangements for reproductive purposes. One individual somehow IIRC, finds a stash of pre-all-of-this writings, and reads and writes. He connects with a girl, and in the end they run off to the woods together to get away from the commie dystopia.

What blew it for me is that in the end...well, several things. He sheds the name and number given to him by the society, and renames himself Prometheus. Fair enough, heavy handed, but clear. Then he announces that his girlfriend will be Gaia. And she says "That will be my name".

Then he thinks happy thoughts to himself about how his sons will be free men. And ends by putting up a sign that says EGO over his new door. EGO is the last word of the book.

So, EGO is the Holy Grail, but only for boys. He names himself, in an act of individualism, but she gets her name given to her by him, as he looks forward to a lovely life of being a head of household in the woods. They have sex shortly before this, and it's lovely, even though she's a virgin, and he's only ever done it under the animalistic conditions imposed by the old society. Or at least, it's lovely for him. We don't hear from her. And he's very happy that she's a virgin, because it's kept her PURE from the horrible way they have sex at home--despite this being a man who should have no cultural attachment to virginity whatsoever. (At least Huxley and Orwell understood that how a man thinks about sex is dependent on what he's been told about it.)

At the end, he is free. She's exchanged one master for another. And I don't think Rand even notices. It's this self-conscious paean to individualism that ends up with Individual and Mrs. Individual, happy ever after. The happy ending for a man is freedom and the happy ending for a woman is a man whose socks she can wash.

And then I threw the book across the room.

Good for you. As long as the wall survived.

177 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:24:45pm

re: #168 freetoken

I suspect this will get continue to get top billing on some right wing outlets:

Former special forces officers slam Obama over leaks on bin Laden killing

It's swiftboat bullshit with incredibly bad logic and typical RW tactics.

178 Stanghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:25:59pm
179 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:26:02pm

re: #168 freetoken

I suspect this will get continue to get top billing on some right wing outlets:

Former special forces officers slam Obama over leaks on bin Laden killing

...

Add coward to your profile. You can spout your crap because me, and other veterans fought for you!

180 freetoken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:26:21pm

re: #177 b_sharp

It's swiftboat bullshit with incredibly bad logic and typical RW tactics.

Yes, however, as CNN demonstrates, media outlets desperate for viewers will keep it on the front burner as long as there is even the smallest of interest.

181 JamesWI  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:26:53pm

re: #177 b_sharp

It's swiftboat bullshit with incredibly bad logic and typical RW tactics.

I read a story on them the other day. The best part was a quote along the lines of "You didn't kill Bin Laden, AMERICA killed Bin Laden!!"

I just wanted to say to them.....And which country does Obama lead again?

182 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:26:57pm

re: #170 SanFranciscoZionist

Marx wrote much better. And thought much better. And had a better beard.

He was a good philosopher. I read him while I was reading Hume, Kierkegaard and Descartes.

Can you image what my mind looked like?

183 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:27:06pm

re: #169 b_sharp

If it puts him on the street it isn't benign.

He is a high-functioning cheap ass miser. He lives out of his car (a 1990 Geo--actually he owns a fleet of junkers), and in vacant hospital rooms.

He has created a niche for himself by filling in for staff radiologists if they want to go on vacation or to a medical conference. He does not have an apartment or a house, although he could afford several.

My kids let him crash on their sofa when he visits Brooklyn because he doesn't want to pay for a hotel room.

He was sleeping in his car in downtown Detroit! When a police officer told him that he was in a neighborhood where his pasty white ass could get murdered.

I should write a novel about him.

184 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:28:44pm

It's a bit amusing to me that as the company that he co-founded prepares to squeeze out Windows 8, Bill Gates is helping to fund innovation in toilet technology, with the aim of improving sanitation in impoverished areas. There are actually some pretty interesting ideas, including one system that turns waste into electricity.

Bill Gates Crowns Toilet Innovators At Sanitation Fair

I recommend listening to the audio rather than just reading the text. The text doesn't explain the project very well.

I can't help wondering if he thinks of Steve Ballmer every time he watches a simulated turd get flushed.

185 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:29:00pm

re: #171 darthstar

Fine...keep reminding America that Obama killed bin Laden.

None of Obama's words on their site can be construed as Obama claiming credit for himself, no matter how hard they want it to.

Why do so many have such a poor grasp of logical and critical thinking?

186 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:29:31pm

re: #173 Gus

Porcelain.

Doll.

187 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:29:45pm

re: #184 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

It's a bit amusing to me that as the company that he co-founded prepares to squeeze out Windows 8, Bill Gates is helping to fund innovation in toilet technology, with the aim of improving sanitation in impoverished areas. There are actually some pretty interesting ideas, including one system that turns waste into electricity.

Bill Gates Crowns Toilet Innovators At Sanitation Fair

I recommend listening to the audio rather than just reading the text. The text doesn't explain the project very well.

I can't help wondering if he thinks of Steve Ballmer every time he watches a simulated turd get flushed.

Can you make money manufacturing simulated turds? What are they simulated OUT of?

188 darthstar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:30:11pm

re: #186 b_sharp

Doll.

Doll and gun show.

189 Stanghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:31:19pm

re: #183 Learned Mother of Zion

He is a high-functioning cheap ass miser. He lives out of his car (a 1990 Geo--actually he owns a fleet of junkers), and in vacant hospital rooms.

He has created a niche for himself by filling in for staff radiologists if they want to go on vacation or to a medical conference. He does not have an apartment or a house, although he could afford several.

My kids let him crash on their sofa when he visits Brooklyn because he doesn't want to pay for a hotel room.

He was sleeping in his car in downtown Detroit! When a police officer told him that he was in a neighborhood where his pasty white ass could get murdered.

I should write a novel about him.

What the hell do his colleagues think of him? Or since he's kinda temp it doesn't matter?

190 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:31:23pm

re: #187 SanFranciscoZionist

Can you make money manufacturing simulated turds? What are they simulated OUT of?

Romney/Ryan press releases?

191 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:31:46pm

re: #187 SanFranciscoZionist

Can you make money manufacturing simulated turds? What are they simulated OUT of?

Japanese make edible some-kinda-meat out of human poo!

192 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:31:50pm

re: #186 b_sharp

Doll.

Pussycat Doll

193 darthstar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:32:38pm

re: #191 Learned Mother of Zion

Japanese make edible some-kinda-meat out of human poo!

Soylent brown is poo-poo!

194 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:32:44pm

re: #189 Stanley Sea

What the hell do his colleagues think of him? Or since he's kinda temp it doesn't matter?

They have no idea how creepy he is, since he has regular gigs at some very big medical centers.

195 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:32:57pm

re: #175 JamesWI

I own at least one Ayn Rand book because I was taking a "Philosophy in Literature" class in college. Luckily, we never got to it, and I never had to read it.

I took philosophy almost 40 years ago. That part of my brain is now full of cobwebs.

196 Stanghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:33:28pm

re: #185 b_sharp

None of Obama's words on their site can be construed as Obama claiming credit for himself, no matter how hard they want it to.

Why do so many have such a poor grasp of logical and critical thinking?

Obama-Hate is the strongest of all of their emotions & thoughts.

197 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:33:41pm

I have to say, there's a paper in it for someone about how all these twentieth-century dystopian novels include the male hero finding his individuality through having some sort of societally-unsanctioned sexual relationship with a woman.

1984, Brave New World, We, Anthem...I'm sure there are a lot more.

Aren't they ever gay? Or too busy running from the Thought Police to think about girls? Or female? Or something? Even Huxley does it, and it takes some doing to create that sort of a situation in a completely promiscuous society.

198 freetoken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:33:55pm

I'm just waiting for Alex Jones/WNd to run with this story and add FEMA to it:


South Africa Invests in Elephant Birth Control

[...] For the past 16 years South Africa has been experimenting with elephant birth control. Female elephants are darted with an immunocontraceptive—porcine zona pellucida vaccine (PZP)—that blocks sperm reception and is said to be between 95 and 100 percent effective. The drug lasts for about a year and treated elephants receive an annual booster. The vaccine is nonhormonal, so it has no behavioral side effects and is also harmless to any males who are accidentally darted.

[....]

Imagine what Homeland Security could do with such technology!

199 Stanghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:34:17pm

re: #194 Learned Mother of Zion

They have no idea how creepy he is, since he has regular gigs at some very big medical centers.

Amazing.

200 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:34:39pm

re: #198 freetoken

I'm just waiting for Alex Jones/WNd to run with this story and add FEMA to it:

South Africa Invests in Elephant Birth Control

Imagine what Homeland Security could do with such technology!

Nope. Instead they ban DDT.

//

201 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:35:23pm

re: #183 Learned Mother of Zion

He is a high-functioning cheap ass miser. He lives out of his car (a 1990 Geo--actually he owns a fleet of junkers), and in vacant hospital rooms.

He has created a niche for himself by filling in for staff radiologists if they want to go on vacation or to a medical conference. He does not have an apartment or a house, although he could afford several.

My kids let him crash on their sofa when he visits Brooklyn because he doesn't want to pay for a hotel room.

He was sleeping in his car in downtown Detroit! When a police officer told him that he was in a neighborhood where his pasty white ass could get murdered.

I should write a novel about him.

He is a high-functioning cheap ass miser.

Great line.

202 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:35:25pm

re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist

I have to say, there's a paper in it for someone about how all these twentieth-century dystopian novels include the male hero finding his individuality through having some sort of societally-unsanctioned sexual relationship with a woman.

1984, Brave New World, We, Anthem...I'm sure there are a lot more.

Aren't they ever gay? Or too busy running from the Thought Police to think about girls? Or female? Or something? Even Huxley does it, and it takes some doing to create that sort of a situation in a completely promiscuous society.

The only dystopian novel I can think of, from a female POV, is "The Handmaid's Tale"

203 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:35:34pm

re: #168 freetoken

I suspect this will get continue to get top billing on some right wing outlets:

Former special forces officers slam Obama over leaks on bin Laden killing

If only this sort of thing had a catchy name. Lemme think. Something like, "Speed Sailing" might do it. No, the alliteration is nice, but it doesn't really have the right impact. Maybe "Fast Rafting"... hmm, better, but still not quite there. "Quick Canoeing?" Any ideas?

204 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:36:10pm

Derp.

205 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:36:27pm

re: #187 SanFranciscoZionist

Can you make money manufacturing simulated turds? What are they simulated OUT of?

Poop.

206 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:37:14pm

re: #202 Learned Mother of Zion

The only dystopian novel I can think of, from a female POV, is "The Handmaid's Tale"

Margaret Atwood's written another one, "The Year of the Flood". "The Hunger Games" books might also count.

207 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:37:23pm

re: #205 b_sharp

Poop.

Turds.

Turd Meat™

208 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:37:43pm

Shit on a shingle.

209 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:37:58pm

re: #192 Gus

Pussycat Doll

Pussy Riot house.

210 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:40:02pm

re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist

I have to say, there's a paper in it for someone about how all these twentieth-century dystopian novels include the male hero finding his individuality through having some sort of societally-unsanctioned sexual relationship with a woman.

1984, Brave New World, We, Anthem...I'm sure there are a lot more.

Aren't they ever gay? Or too busy running from the Thought Police to think about girls? Or female? Or something? Even Huxley does it, and it takes some doing to create that sort of a situation in a completely promiscuous society.

Without an adoring female our equipment doesn't stand out.

211 Stanghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:41:09pm
212 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:41:37pm

re: #198 freetoken

I'm just waiting for Alex Jones/WNd to run with this story and add FEMA to it:

South Africa Invests in Elephant Birth Control

Imagine what Homeland Security could do with such technology!

Why do they need elephant birth control? I thought elephants are on the endangered list.

213 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:42:23pm

re: #183 Learned Mother of Zion

He is a high-functioning cheap ass miser. He lives out of his car (a 1990 Geo--actually he owns a fleet of junkers), and in vacant hospital rooms.

He has created a niche for himself by filling in for staff radiologists if they want to go on vacation or to a medical conference. He does not have an apartment or a house, although he could afford several.

My kids let him crash on their sofa when he visits Brooklyn because he doesn't want to pay for a hotel room.

He was sleeping in his car in downtown Detroit! When a police officer told him that he was in a neighborhood where his pasty white ass could get murdered.

I should write a novel about him.

His frugality is to the point of insanity. I'm serious.

I'm married to Mr. Frugal, but he would never suggest not having a house.

214 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:42:29pm

re: #200 Gus

Nope. Instead they ban DDT.

//

Frikkin mosquito lovers.

215 freetoken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:42:46pm

Here is your National Wingnut Forecast for PM 16 Aug 2012:

The wingnut weather front trailing a Biden low continues to spread eastward causing local be-clowning events. Meanwhile, a closed off low behind the Biden system is causing sporadic derechos of derpitude due to the confusion of comedy and actual policy, but those are not expected to persist.

216 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:43:15pm

re: #187 SanFranciscoZionist

Can you make money manufacturing simulated turds? What are they simulated OUT of?

Soybeans, of course.

217 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:43:48pm

This is a totally random question, and honestly not politically loaded. I'm just wondering.

Since FDR's previous VP was dumped for Truman in the 1944 election (since they knew the VP would be president, and the guy they had was not a good option, apparently), has any president not tapped his previous VP for running mate?

(Skipping all of the Rockefeller-Ford weirdness.)

218 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:44:03pm

re: #202 Learned Mother of Zion

The only dystopian novel I can think of, from a female POV, is "The Handmaid's Tale"

And I believe even she finds an illicit heterosexual relationship, although he, being male, is a much more important player in the plot than Julia'n'Lenina'n'Gaia'n'I-330 get to be.

219 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:45:14pm

re: #183 Learned Mother of Zion

I should write a novel about him.

Yes. Yes you should. ;)

220 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:46:37pm

re: #213 Mostly sane, most of the time.

His frugality is to the point of insanity. I'm serious.

I'm married to Mr. Frugal, but he would never suggest not having a house.

My brother-in-law was married once, about 30 years ago. His wife (who thought she was marrying a rich doctor!) got tired of his cheap-ass habits, and one day her boyfriend came with a U-Haul and they emptied out the apartment.

My BIL did not contest the divorce because he didn't want to pay a lawyer, and the ex-wife got to keep all the stuff she looted. California, community property. Fortunately they had no kids. This may be why he has never lived in another house or apartment.

My mother-in-law kind of enabled this behavior over the years by making him think that nobody was good enough for him.

221 freetoken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:47:10pm

My mind would be boggled over the obsessive postings at HotAir over this or that government department buying thousands millions billions of rounds of ammo if I had realized a while ago that all these right wing reactionary outlets are heading for the lowest energy state available - copying WND copying Alex Jones.

222 freetoken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:47:49pm

In the end, everything is just Statistical Mechanics.

223 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:48:09pm

re: #220 Learned Mother of Zion

My brother-in-law was married once, about 30 years ago. His wife (who thought she was marrying a rich doctor!) got tired of his cheap-ass habits, and one day her boyfriend came with a U-Haul and they emptied out the apartment.

My BIL did not contest the divorce because he didn't want to pay a lawyer, and the ex-wife got to keep all the stuff she looted. California, community property. Fortunately they had no kids. This may be why he has never lived in another house or apartment.

My mother-in-law kind of enabled this behavior over the years by making him think that nobody was good enough for him.

He really does sound like he's better off not married. Some people are not meant to live as half of a partnership.

224 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:48:28pm

re: #222 freetoken

In the end, everything is just Statistical Mechanics chocolate ice cream.

Works for me.

225 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:48:28pm

re: #216 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Soybeans, of course.

Way to kill a crappy running joke, you realist you.

226 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:49:19pm

re: #225 b_sharp

Way to kill a crappy running joke, you realist you.

Santorum Meat

227 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:50:29pm

re: #221 freetoken

My mind would be boggled over the obsessive postings at HotAir over this or that government department buying thousands millions billions of rounds of ammo if I had realized a while ago that all these right wing reactionary outlets are heading for the lowest energy state available - copying WND copying Alex Jones.

Another great phrase.

228 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:50:54pm
229 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:51:16pm

re: #222 freetoken

In the end, everything is just Statistical Mechanics.

In an isolated system.

230 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:52:03pm

re: #226 Gus

Santorum Meat

Ryan's ass.

231 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:55:53pm

re: #230 b_sharp

Ryan's ass.

Romney's doesn't know his ass from his elbow.

232 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:56:49pm

re: #231 Gus

Romney's doesn't know his ass from his elbow.

You need to read your comment and my comment together.

233 kirghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:57:17pm

re: #202 Learned Mother of Zion

The only dystopian novel I can think of, from a female POV, is "The Handmaid's Tale"

Westerfeld's Uglies. Roth's Divergent trilogy. Weyn's Bar Code Tattoo.

There are several. They're typically appearing in Young Adult (like Hunger Games did), but there are a lot.

234 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:58:09pm

Since Rockstar has forsaken PC Gamers there's a new GTA style game out that looks pretty good.
Sleeping Dogs Quicklook from Giant Bomb
The playthough video is long but it's worth skimming through to see what the game has to offer.

235 jaunte  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:58:22pm

re: #231 Gus

"I have showed all of my ass that the law requires."

236 Digital Display  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:00:45pm

Well I have a Strong opinion about the SPLC.
I think it was a year or two ago and I was laying around a Hotel room mid day bored as hell and there was a 2 hour documentary about the Civil rights movement and the roll the SPLC played in it. They have really become a world class law center.. I was impressed.
So if you are a God Loving Christian and you get deemed a Hate group by the SPLC Then you have some real soul searching to do.

237 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:00:54pm

re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist

I have to say, there's a paper in it for someone about how all these twentieth-century dystopian novels include the male hero finding his individuality through having some sort of societally-unsanctioned sexual relationship with a woman.

1984, Brave New World, We, Anthem...I'm sure there are a lot more.

Aren't they ever gay? Or too busy running from the Thought Police to think about girls? Or female? Or something? Even Huxley does it, and it takes some doing to create that sort of a situation in a completely promiscuous society.

My interpretation of the escapades between Winston and Julia in 1984 was that it didn't have so much to do with reclamation of individuality, but was rather a play on the Garden of Eden story. Winston wasn't innocent by any means, but Julia was the instigator. She tempted Winston with sex, coffee, and other contraband. Ultimately, they were found out by the master of the garden, and were punished for eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, as it were.

In the Ministry of Love they eventually betrayed each other to the master of the garden. "Under the spreading chestnut tree, I sold you and you sold me." Genesis doesn't say so, but it's not hard to imagine Adam and Eve spending some time in Room 101.

238 Stanghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:05:06pm

Project Runway. Hooray. See you at commercial breaks!

(I miss webevintage - follow on twitter - but damn)

239 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:05:18pm

Moronic article. Actually I could just say Breitbart article:

Will DOJ Take Action on FRC Shooting?

Yesterday’s violent attack on the conservative Family Research Council by an apparent gay rights activists puts the spotlight on the Obama Justice Department. Will the Department seriously investigate the shooting – which was motivated by anger at FRC’s advocacy of traditional Christian values including opposition to gay marriage – as a hate crime and, if appropriate, prosecute it as such? Those concerned with equal justice under the law should and will be watching to see whether the Department of Justice does the right thing here.

DOJ’s handling of the FRC case would be closely watched under any President, given the long-standing, nationwide underenforcement of hate crimes laws when the bias behind the crime does not fit a politically correct narrative involving hostility to Muslims, gays, racial minorities and the like. But the attention on Eric Holder’s Justice Department will be particularly intense here, given the well-documented politicization of its Civil Rights Division.

If the reported details of the FRC shooting are accurate, this case is a textbook example of a hate crime. After a security guard took away his gun, suspect Floyd Corkins said, “Don’t shoot me, it was not about you, it was what this place stands for.” Corkins is a volunteer at the DC Center for the LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bi-sexual, Transgender) Community, while FRC is a Christian-oriented, pro-life, traditional values organization that has been at the forefront of opposition to same-sex marriage...

240 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:05:54pm

re: #237 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

My interpretation of the escapades between Winston and Julia in 1984 was that it didn't have so much to do with reclamation of individuality, but was rather a play on the Garden of Eden story. Winston wasn't innocent by any means, but Julia was the instigator. She tempted Winston with sex, coffee, and other contraband. Ultimately, they were found out by the master of the garden, and were punished for eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, as it were.

In the Ministry of Love they eventually betrayed each other to the master of the garden. "Under the spreading chestnut tree, I sold you and you sold me." Genesis doesn't say so, but it's not hard to imagine Adam and Eve spending some time in Room 101.

Except that Orwell didn't have all that much use for religion himself, as I understand it. I'd more say that Julia is the youthful part-rebel whom the story needs in order to move Winston Smith into more open violation of the Party's rules.

241 OhNoBenghazi!  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:06:08pm

Just went on a Joseph Campbell, Schopenhauer, Hobbes, Kant, Jung, 7-day binge. Free Kindle books. Still have a few lined up.
My dreams have been weird, and i keep wanting to use 'whilst' whilst typing.
Am I going to die?

242 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:06:08pm

re: #233 kirkspencer

Westerfeld's Uglies. Roth's Divergent trilogy. Weyn's Bar Code Tattoo.

There are several. They're typically appearing in Young Adult (like Hunger Games did), but there are a lot.

Those titles mean nothing to me, I am totally not into that genre of fiction. I like thrillers and crime procedurals: John Sandford, Stephen Hunter, Lee Child, etc.

I like Tess Gerritson too, but the Rizzoli & Isles TV show is horrible! So lame compared to the novels.

243 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:07:26pm

re: #239 Gus

Moronic article. Actually I could just say Breitbart article:

Will DOJ Take Action on FRC Shooting?

The DoJ is already investigating the case as a possible hate crime, Joel. But don't let that get in the way of a good DERP, you deceitful choad.

244 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:09:31pm

re: #241 OhNoZombies!

Just went on a Joseph Campbell, Schopenhauer, Hobbes, Kant, Jung, 7-day binge. Free Kindle books. Still have a few lined up.
My dreams have been weird, and i keep wanting to use 'whilst' whilst typing.
Am I going to die?

You are already dead, have been for a while, you just don't know it yet.

245 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:10:25pm

re: #243 Dark_Falcon

The DoJ is already investigating the case as a possible hate crime, Joel. But don't let that get in the way of a good DERP, you deceitful choad.

Teh Derp™ is so strong even Erick Son of Erick can't handle it:

246 Stanghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:12:17pm

re: #245 Interesting Times

Teh Derp™ is so strong even Erick Son of Erick can't handle it:

[Embedded content]

L O L

Hypocrites, they never get it.

247 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:12:42pm

re: #241 OhNoZombies!

Just went on a Joseph Campbell, Schopenhauer, Hobbes, Kant, Jung, 7-day binge. Free Kindle books. Still have a few lined up.
My dreams have been weird, and i keep wanting to use 'whilst' whilst typing.
Am I going to die?

Yes.

248 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:14:03pm

re: #245 Interesting Times

Teh Derp™ is so strong even Erick Son of Erick can't take it:

[Embedded content]

Meanwhile over at Breitbart they want him to be charged with a hate crime:

Given President Obama’s well-known view that bitter people cling to religion and Eric Holder’s documented politicization of the Justice Department, the Department risks losing whatever public respect it still retains if it fails to take the religious hate crime committed at FRC seriously. But there’s also an upside here for Obama and Holder. Doing the right thing in this high-profile case presents a great opportunity for them to demonstrate to the nation that the Civil Rights Division is sincerely interested in even-handed enforcement of civil rights laws, while also providing the nation with a valuable teaching moment – reminding us that hate crime laws were intended to protect all victims of bias-related crime.

249 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:14:54pm

re: #241 OhNoZombies!

Just went on a Joseph Campbell, Schopenhauer, Hobbes, Kant, Jung, 7-day binge. Free Kindle books. Still have a few lined up.
My dreams have been weird, and i keep wanting to use 'whilst' whilst typing.
Am I going to die?

What the hell is Jung doing in there?

250 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:15:03pm

re: #246 Stanley Sea

L O L

Hypocrites, they never get it.

I'd say the FRC does get it, they just don't care. They want to rile up the base so that they can gain money and power whiling claiming to be the "victim of a liberal Jihad against Traditional America!!1".

251 OhNoBenghazi!  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:15:29pm

re: #237 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Well, the first thing Adam did was tell God that it was Eve's fault that they ate the apple, and then Eve blamed the snake...
Not much has changed.

252 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:16:10pm

re: #251 OhNoZombies!

Well, the first thing Adam did was tell God that it was Eve's fault that they ate the apple, and then Eve blamed the snake...
Not much has changed.

How many eyes did that snake have?

253 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:18:09pm

re: #240 Dark_Falcon

Not that I think Orwell was paying homage to religious mythology or anything like that. Just that I saw some interesting parallels - in both tales, an iconic couple are subjected to spend the rest of their lives suffering because they defied an omnipotent's capricious orthodoxy.

Consider also the probability that I am full of shit.

254 erik_t  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:18:17pm

Obama is such a dirty goddamned communist that he's saving the AK-47.

Despite the gun’s violent history — or perhaps because of it — American hunters and gun enthusiasts are snapping up tens of thousands of Kalashnikov rifles and shotguns. Demand is so brisk that the factory has shifted its focus from military to civilian manufacture over the last two years. United States sales of the civilian versions, sold under the brand name Saiga, rose by 50 percent last year, according to officials at the factory, known as Izhmash.
...
Selling rifles to Americans and other civilians is fundamental to the efforts to save Izhmash, which has made Kalashnikovs since soon after their invention in 1947 but is now struggling.

255 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:19:44pm

re: #245 Interesting Times

Teh Derp™ is so strong even Erick Son of Erick can't handle it:

[Embedded content]

Lol, it's a meta-hate crime. Let me get this straight. Bigoted trash get the tiniest little taste of the targeted violence they've been dishing out to gays for centuries and suddenly realize that it sucks to be on the receiving end. Fine, give it to them, classify it as a hate crime because the law protects obnoxious, hate filled douchebags too.

256 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:21:05pm

re: #253 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Not that I think Orwell was paying homage to religious mythology or anything like that. Just that I saw some interesting parallels - in both tales, an iconic couple are subjected to spend the rest of their lives suffering because they defied an omnipotent's capricious orthodoxy.

Consider also the probability that I am full of shit.

No, you argued your case decently. You're fine.

257 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:21:18pm

re: #255 goddamnedfrank

Lol, it's a meta-hate crime. Let me get this straight. Bigoted trash get the tiniest little taste of the targeted violence they've been dishing out to gays for centuries and suddenly realize that it sucks to be on the receiving end. Fine, give it to them, classify it as a hate crime because the law protects obnoxious, hate filled douchebags too.

Like most people they would rather pretend to be a victim than be a victim...

258 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:23:16pm

re: #255 goddamnedfrank

Lol, it's a meta-hate crime. Let me get this straight. Bigoted trash get the tiniest little taste of the targeted violence they've been dishing out to gays for centuries and suddenly realize that it sucks to be on the receiving end. Fine, give it to them, classify it as a hate crime because the law protects obnoxious, hate filled douchebags too.

I'm game. Hate crime it is.

259 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:23:36pm

Who the hell is @pushbacknow?

260 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:24:40pm

re: #254 erik_t

Obama is such a dirty goddamned communist that he's saving the AK-47.

The AKM* has much to recommend it to someone looking for value: It is relatively cheap, easy to build, simple to maintain, and effective in use.

*: The current rifles being produced at Izhmash are semi-auto variations of the AKM, thus having stamped receivers as opposed to the original AK-47 milled receiver.

261 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:24:54pm

re: #259 b_sharp

Who the hell is @pushbacknow?

Let's see. Hmmm. Looks like some wingnut. Not sure though.

//

262 OhNoBenghazi!  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:25:05pm

re: #244 Learned Mother of Zion
Well, since I can't quantify your assertions, I can't prove they are real...
transcend, ego, archetype, will, god is dead, long live the king, blue suede shoes,
...head asplode!

263 Stanghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:25:22pm

LOL, watching the Obama commercial - Taxes: Romney pays less, you pay more.

I'm in California. Didn't think I'd see any.

264 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:26:04pm

re: #259 b_sharp

Who the hell is @pushbacknow?

Smells like some Rush wannabee.

265 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:26:40pm

re: #262 OhNoZombies!

Well, since I can't quantify your assertions, I can't prove they are real...
transcend, ego, archetype, will, god is dead, long live the king, blue suede shoes,
...head asplode!

Head asplode, you're dead for realz.

266 jaunte  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:28:47pm

re: #261 Gus

Whoever it is, he didn't like his science teacher.

267 Stanghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:28:50pm

re: #259 b_sharp

Who the hell is @pushbacknow?

His profile: Time to arm Americans

Yeah, we arn't armed now. Read the news motherfucker and update your profile. Or own it.

268 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:29:18pm

Well, not that I can find. There was a revolving-door series of VP's in the 1970's, with Nixon having one resign, and when Nixon resigned, Rockefeller replaced Ford.

Interestingly, Rockefeller's wiki page doesn't come right out and say that his divorce and remarriage to Happy Rockefeller did major damage to his political career. It sounds as if people were turned off by the fact that she was a divorcee. No, they were turned off by how she got to be a divorcee.

269 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:29:43pm

re: #261 Gus

Let's see. Hmmm. Looks like some wingnut. Not sure though.

//

I thought he was a friend of yours.

270 jaunte  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:30:58pm

READ, man!

271 OhNoBenghazi!  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:31:09pm

re: #249 b_sharp

I wanted to read 'Answer to Job'.
Jung was trying to analyze why God and Satan would screw Job. Where is the morality in that etc...

272 allegro  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:31:43pm

re: #260 Dark_Falcon

The AKM* has much to recommend it to someone looking for value: It is relatively cheap, easy to build, simple to maintain, and effective in use.

For what purpose?

273 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:31:45pm

Who else here wants to see an Octolizard?

274 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:32:22pm

re: #272 allegro

For what purpose?

Kill people.

275 OhNoBenghazi!  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:34:06pm

re: #252 b_sharp

Was the snake really a snake, or was it a metaphor?

276 jaunte  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:35:27pm

re: #273 b_sharp

I have to admit, the merging of the anatomies has me stumped.
It either becomes a lizard with boneless legs, or an octopus with a lizard head.

277 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:36:30pm

re: #266 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Whoever it is, he didn't like his science teacher.

Yikes. What a bird brain.

278 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:36:53pm

re: #274 b_sharp

Heh. Read your #273 and #274 in sequence, including allegro's quoted post ;)

279 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:37:28pm

re: #275 OhNoZombies!

Was the snake really a snake, or was it a metaphor?

I don't know...
//

280 jaunte  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:37:40pm

re: #277 Gus

Lucy is just like Piltdown Man, for some reason.

281 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:40:51pm

re: #280 jaunte

Lucy is just like Piltdown Man, for some reason.

You're kidding.
That's still going around?
Have they hit with the' Lucy's knee was found 10 miles away?'

282 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:43:00pm

re: #278 Interesting Times

Heh. Read your #273 and #274 in sequence, including allegro's quoted post ;)

LOL

283 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:43:24pm

re: #280 jaunte

Lucy is just like Piltdown Man, for some reason.

The SOUTH will rise again!

284 jaunte  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:43:48pm

re: #281 b_sharp

I didn't see him get into detail on that, but he's arguing that "micro and macro [evolution] are separate paths"

285 Digital Display  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:43:48pm

re: #275 OhNoZombies!

Was the snake really a snake, or was it a metaphor?

You have the story of Adam and Eve eating the Apple all wrong...
It was a lovely Spring day and Eve was making a Waldorf salad from the Garden. ( It's nice living in a Garden Naked )
Well the snake got an idea.. He would slip in some diced apples in the Salad when she wasn't looking..One Problem.. Snakes have no arms so he hired a gay chef from what would 6000 years later be called New York City.
The plan was performed to perfection and led to the downfall of Mankind.
/

286 OhNoBenghazi!  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:44:32pm

Third Law of Thermodynamics !!!
//

287 OhNoBenghazi!  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:45:51pm

re: #285 Digital Display

So you're saying there really was a Steve...

288 Kragar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:47:10pm

Cthulhu.


I haven't read the entire thread, but its still my answer.

289 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:47:53pm

re: #288 Kragar

Cthulhu.

I haven't read the thread the entire thread, but its still my answer.

Yes, actually, Cthulu would have improved the run of VP's we had during the 70's.

290 Kragar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:49:33pm

Cthulhu/Dagon '12: Why settle for the lesser evils?

291 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:50:20pm

re: #290 Kragar

Cthulhu/Dagon '12: Why settle for the lesser evils?

Dagon lacks plausible deniability.

292 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:50:37pm

re: #266 jaunte

I'd say that's a parody account, but I stick to my assertion that parody is no longer possible. Poe's Law was a wry joke that accidentally turned out to be true.

293 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:51:29pm

re: #272 allegro

For what purpose?

Accurately firing rounds at short to medium range.

294 Kragar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:51:40pm

re: #291 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Dagon lacks plausible deniability.

They were going to go with Hastur, but they kept losing entire stadiums when they started chanting his name.

295 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:51:46pm

re: #284 jaunte

I didn't see him get into detail on that, but he's arguing that "micro and macro [evolution] are separate paths"

Common BS. They make up a mechanism that prevents going from micro to macro. Evidence for it is nonexistent.

296 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:53:06pm

re: #286 OhNoZombies!

Third Law of Thermodynamics !!!
//

I thought that was the law that made heads asplode.

297 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:53:24pm

re: #288 Kragar

Cthulhu.

I haven't read the thread the entire thread, but its still my answer.

Good answer.

298 OhNoBenghazi!  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:54:23pm

re: #296 b_sharp

It is when you use it as an argument supporting Intelligent Design.

299 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:54:36pm

re: #293 Dark_Falcon

Accurately firing rounds at short to medium range.

The ultimate purpose is to kill.

300 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:55:42pm

re: #294 Kragar

They were going to go with Hastur, but they kept losing entire stadiums when they started chanting his name.

Why not just go with Nurgle, given how many wingnut haters have graphic fantasies of the infliction of disease and decay on their perceived enemies.

301 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:57:37pm

Really, honestly, what's wrong with our old standbys? Why do we have to keep going to the exotics, like Cthulu and Dagon? What's so wrong with Anubis, or Set, Hades or Pluto? For that matter, I'm pretty sure that little scandal with Leda wouldn't hurt Zeus too much.

Go with the standbys.

Zeus/Mithras 2012

302 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:58:28pm

re: #299 b_sharp

The ultimate purpose is to kill.

It is ready to kill, but most (96+%) Americans who own an AK firmly do not wish to use their rifle to do that. They would kill if that was the only way to protect themselves or others, but they do not enjoy the idea of killing.

303 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:59:29pm

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

It is ready to kill, but most (96+%) Americans who own an AK firmly do not wish to use their rifle to do that. They would kill if that was the only way to protect themselves or others, but they do not enjoy the idea of killing.

I think that for a lot of gun owners, the purpose is to convince others that they are willing to defend their home and family (i.e. kill or hurt).

They'd rather the deterrent work.

304 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:00:34pm

re: #301 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Really, honestly, what's wrong with our old standbys? Why do we have to keep going to the exotics, like Cthulu and Dagon? What's so wrong with Anubis, or Set, Hades or Pluto? For that matter, I'm pretty sure that little scandal with Leda wouldn't hurt Zeus too much.

Go with the standbys.

Zeus/Mithras 2012

mr zeus, yesterday your opponent said "there isn't any animal that zeus won't turn into in order to have sex with a virgin" - what do you have to say about that?

305 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:00:44pm

re: #301 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Really, honestly, what's wrong with our old standbys? Why do we have to keep going to the exotics, like Cthulu and Dagon? What's so wrong with Anubis, or Set, Hades or Pluto? For that matter, I'm pretty sure that little scandal with Leda wouldn't hurt Zeus too much.

Go with the standbys.

Zeus/Mithras 2012

Too old school. Need new ick.

306 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:02:45pm

re: #303 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I think that for a lot of gun owners, the purpose is to convince others that they are willing to defend their home and family (i.e. kill or hurt).

They'd rather the deterrent work.

Agreed.

307 Lidane  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:03:03pm

Since we're on the subject:

Image: evolution.jpg

308 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:04:24pm

re: #307 Lidane

Since we're on the subject:

Image: evolution.jpg

Yup, yup, yup.

309 Kragar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:04:33pm

re: #300 Dark_Falcon

Why not just go with Nurgle, given how many wingnut haters have graphic fantasies of the infliction of disease and decay on their perceived enemies.

Cthulhu is a Great Old One, with a material body and is tied to physical reality. Nurgle is a Chaos god, the embodiment of natural forces of death and decay whose consciousness is is not linked to any point in time or space.

310 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:09:17pm

re: #309 Kragar

Cthulhu is a Great Old One, with a material body and is tied to physical reality. Nurgle is a Chaos god, the embodiment of natural forces of death and decay whose consciousness is is not linked to any point in time or space.

Picky, picky, picky.

311 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:12:08pm

Being that I'm fair and balanced!

312 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:12:25pm

re: #237 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

My interpretation of the escapades between Winston and Julia in 1984 was that it didn't have so much to do with reclamation of individuality, but was rather a play on the Garden of Eden story. Winston wasn't innocent by any means, but Julia was the instigator. She tempted Winston with sex, coffee, and other contraband. Ultimately, they were found out by the master of the garden, and were punished for eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, as it were.

In the Ministry of Love they eventually betrayed each other to the master of the garden. "Under the spreading chestnut tree, I sold you and you sold me." Genesis doesn't say so, but it's not hard to imagine Adam and Eve spending some time in Room 101.

It's a fascinating interpretation, but it doesn't quite work for me...lemme think.

313 Stanghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:13:41pm

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

It is ready to kill, but most (96+%) Americans who own an AK firmly do not wish to use their rifle to do that. They would kill if that was the only way to protect themselves or others, but they do not enjoy the idea of killing.

How in the world do you know this?

314 OhNoBenghazi!  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:14:30pm

Well shit, we've already got Nurgle.
Retroactive retirement -- only a master of the universe could pull that one off...
Nurgle/Loki 2012

315 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:14:45pm

re: #312 SanFranciscoZionist

It's a fascinating interpretation, but it doesn't quite work for me...lemme think.

Beware spontaneous human combustion.

316 allegro  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:15:37pm

re: #309 Kragar

Cthulhu is a Great Old One, with a material body and is tied to physical reality. Nurgle is a Chaos god, the embodiment of natural forces of death and decay whose consciousness is is not linked to any point in time or space.

And an AK47 is for self defense. Hey, if we're gonna talk about myths and fairy tales...

317 allegro  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:16:54pm

re: #309 Kragar

Cthulhu is a Great Old One, with a material body and is tied to physical reality. Nurgle is a Chaos god, the embodiment of natural forces of death and decay whose consciousness is is not linked to any point in time or space.

And an AK47 is for self defense. Hey, if we're gonna talk about myths and fairy tales...

318 allegro  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:17:37pm

Oops. Sorry for the double post. Having WiFi issues here.

319 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:17:52pm

re: #317 allegro

You double posted.

320 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:18:29pm

re: #316 allegro

A herd of rabid cats could attack.

321 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:18:36pm

Dear FRC,

Not all hate groups are equal. Hate is a spectrum. So if it's any comfort to you, while I think you're a hate group, in all honesty in that spectrum I personally don't equate the FRC with the worst of hate. Speaking for myself only.

Sincerely,

Me

322 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:18:56pm

re: #319 Dark_Falcon

You double posted.

You double posted.

323 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:19:16pm

re: #322 b_sharp

You double posted.

SMACK!

324 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:19:31pm

re: #321 Gus

Dear FRC,

Not all hate groups are equal. Hate is a spectrum. So if it's any comfort to you, while I think you're a hate group, in all honesty in that spectrum I personally don't equate the FRC with the worst of hate. Speaking for myself only.

Sincerely,

Me

I do.

325 Kragar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:19:44pm

re: #318 allegro

Oops. Sorry for the double post. Having WiFi issues here.

I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you.

326 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:19:56pm

re: #323 Dark_Falcon

SMACK!

You double SMACKed.

327 Kragar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:19:58pm

re: #322 b_sharp

You double posted.

I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you.

328 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:20:16pm

re: #324 b_sharp

I do.

Why you young whipper snapper. I fought in a war for your freedom!

//

329 jamesfirecat  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:20:20pm

re: #300 Dark_Falcon

Why not just go with Nurgle, given how many wingnut haters have graphic fantasies of the infliction of disease and decay on their perceived enemies.

Also Nurgle is opposed to the god of hope and change so he's got that going for him.

330 allegro  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:20:38pm

re: #325 Kragar

I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you.

:P~~~~

331 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:20:43pm

Or as I would say when I was 16, "that's cool."

332 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:20:48pm

re: #328 Gus

Why you young whipper snapper. I fought in a war for your freedom!

//

You're not the boss of me.

333 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:21:12pm

That's cool man! Don't taze me bro! Don't taze me bro!

Behave yourselves!

Stop raping people!

334 allegro  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:21:34pm

re: #333 Gus

That's cool man! Don't taze me bro! Don't taze me bro!

Behave yourselves!

Stop raping people!

READ man!

335 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:22:05pm

re: #334 allegro

READ man!

Mic check!

336 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:22:47pm

re: #335 Gus

Mic check!

SCREEE!!!

337 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:25:06pm

re: #336 b_sharp

SCREEE!!!

Sit down! Wait for the others speaker!

Headline: Martin Luther King forced not to speak.

//

338 b_snark  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:25:15pm

You're all just weird so I'm going to bed.

339 Kragar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:26:32pm

re: #333 Gus

That's cool man! Don't taze me bro! Don't taze me bro!

Behave yourselves!

Stop raping people!

340 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:28:01pm

Sorry about my Assange outbursts but he's kind of like my "Niagara Falls." I wish him no harm and hope he continues to have a safe life.

341 simoom  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:28:22pm

All things old are new again. Fox is once again trying to exploit Pres. Obama's Kenyan half-brother George, just like they did last election cycle, this time with the help of Dinesh D'Souza:

George’s brother is a multimillionaire and the most powerful man in the world. Moreover, George’s brother has framed his re-election campaign around the “fair share” theme that we owe obligations to those who are less fortunate.

One of Obama’s favorite phrases comes right out of the Bible: “We are our brother’s keeper.” Yet he has not contributed a penny to help his own brother.

...

So much for spreading the wealth around.

...

So what’s the real story here? Where’s George Obama’s “fair share”? George’s tragic situation exposes President Obama as a hypocrite. Here is a man who demands that others pay higher taxes to help the poor—even poor people who are not related to them—while Obama himself refuses to help a close relative like George.

Yet I believe there is a deeper explanation that goes beyond hypocrisy for why Obama wants nothing to do with George. After all, it would cost Obama so little to raise George out of poverty, and yet he won’t do it. This isn’t mere negligence; it suggests an active animus. The reason for that animus emerges in George’s book and also in my interview with George in the film 2016. In that interview, George rejects the anti-colonial philosophy that was espoused by Barack Obama Sr.

One must never forget that "Kenyan Anti-Colonialist Worldview" -- it explains everything! ///.

From the record of their lives and writings, it’s clear that Barack Obama Sr. and Barack Obama Jr. both share the anti-colonial view that blames Western colonial exploitation for the poverty and suffering of the Third World. Yet George doesn’t buy it.

Apparently, according to D'Souza, Pres. Obama has also failed to straighten estranged-father's sister's teeth:

Obama also has an aunt named Hawa Auma, his father’s sister, who ekes out a living selling coal on the streets of a small village in Kenya. She says she would like to have her teeth fixed, but she cannot afford it. Obama hasn’t offered to help her either.

I wonder how long before they start making hay with his other numerous half-siblings through-out the world, like his half-brother in China. It's also been a while since they've been ranting about his U.S. half-uncle and half-aunt, so I expect they'll be getting to that again too.

No link, sorry -- not helping Fox promote the slimy D'Souza and his ridiculous new movie.

342 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:30:12pm

Oooh...nice burn re the "pro-life" movement's priorities:

though still too generous, given they consider any form of gov't-funded pre-natal care to be dirty socialism.

343 Digital Display  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:32:04pm

re: #340 Gus

Sorry about my Assange outbursts but he's kind of like my "Niagara Falls." I wish him no harm and hope he continues to have a safe life.

His punishment forever will be on the run and looking over his shoulder..
Fitting

344 jaunte  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:33:10pm

U.S. voters see Medicare as a top election issue - poll

WASHINGTON, Aug 16 (Reuters) - Medicare has become a top healthcare issue in the U.S. presidential election, surpassing the controversy over President Barack Obama's healthcare law, according to a poll conducted just as Republican Mitt Romney pushed the issue to the forefront of the campaign with his choice of running mate.

On Saturday, Romney announced he had picked Representative Paul Ryan, a lawmaker whose plan to cut billions of dollars from the U.S. deficit included transforming the costly, but popular, healthcare program for the elderly.

The nonprofit Kaiser Family Foundation said on Thursday that 73 percent of respondents polled in the days around the announcement described Medicare as "very important" or "extremely important" to their votes. That included large majorities of Democrats, independents and Republicans.

The Kaiser foundation said a separate survey conducted a week earlier found that 58 percent of adults - including 55 percent of Republicans - favored keeping Medicare as it is today with all seniors receiving the same insurance benefits.

345 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:33:51pm

re: #341 simoom

The real story is that George Obama lacks his half-brother's discipline. The DAILY FAIL did a better, though still trashy, job here. Their article clearly showed George's taste for harder drugs, booze and no-commitment sex. Barack Obama avoided those temptations and made something of himself, his half-brother let them rule him and lives in a slum as a result. Unlike those whom Barack Obama worked with in Chicago, George Obama is poor because he effectively wants to be poor. For Barack Obama to send George money would just be enabling.

346 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:34:24pm

re: #271 OhNoZombies!

I wanted to read 'Answer to Job'.
Jung was trying to analyze why God and Satan would screw Job. Where is the morality in that etc...

$10,000 bet

347 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:35:12pm

re: #342 Interesting Times

Oooh...nice burn re the "pro-life" movement's priorities:

[Embedded content]

though still too generous, given they consider any form of gov't-funded pre-natal care to be dirty socialism.

That's an old one, since it depicts George Bush the Elder.

348 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:37:29pm

re: #347 Dark_Falcon

That's an old one, since it depicts George Bush the Elder.

Speaks volumes that its message is even more relevant today.

349 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:38:39pm

re: #345 Dark_Falcon

The real story is that George Obama lacks his half-brother's discipline. The DAILY FAIL did a better, though still trashy, job here. Their article clearly showed George's taste for harder drugs, booze and no-commitment sex. Barack Obama avoided those temptations and made something of himself, his half-brother let them rule him and lives in a slum as a result. Unlike those whom Barack Obama worked with in Chicago, George Obama is poor because he effectively wants to be poor. For Barack Obama to send George money would just be enabling.

Where does your extensive knowledge of George's drinking, drug use and sex life come from?

350 JamesWI  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:40:15pm

re: #344 jaunte

U.S. voters see Medicare as a top election issue - poll

What a brilliant strategy by the Romney campaign! Go from having the public argue over "Obamacare," a relatively controversial program that almost half the country hates (without actually knowing what it is).....to making the campaign about destroying the popular healthcare program that senior voters depend on!

These guys are real winners!

351 Stanghazi  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:40:18pm

re: #348 Interesting Times

Speaks volumes that its message is even more relevant today.

WAY more relevant. WAY MORE. wow

352 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:40:18pm

re: #347 Dark_Falcon

That's an old one, since it depicts George Bush the Elder.

Hellcat avengers! I was thinking about how bot the right and left disliked GHWB. In the context of sometimes seeming like everyone likes him now. He's aged well in body and in spirit.

353 simoom  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:40:24pm

re: #345 Dark_Falcon

What I noticed from D'Souza piece is it sounds like George has been involved in few different RW books and movies, in recent years. D'Souza also claims he sent George $1000 dollars to help with some medical expenses. In all honesty, I hope George is making a decent amount of money off the anti-obama-media cottage industry, as they're certainly making money off of him.

354 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:40:28pm

re: #349 goddamnedfrank

Where does your extensive knowledge of George's drinking, drug use and sex life come from?

Actually, it was from that Daily Mail article, which was pretty detailed and ha photos. So I don't think they were lying about that.

But now I've just faded too much to keep going, so I'm going to head off to bed. Good Night, all

355 simoom  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:41:53pm

re: #354 Dark_Falcon

'Night DF.

356 jaunte  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:42:29pm

re: #350 JamesWI

What a brilliant strategy by the Romney campaign! Go from having the public argue over "Obamacare," a relatively controversial program that almost half the country hates (without actually knowing what it is).....to making the campaign about destroying the popular healthcare program that senior voters depend on!

These guys are real winners!

It's a hard one for multi-millionaires to figure out.

357 Flavia  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:08:43pm

re: #62 OhNoZombies!

I'm sure I'm not the only person in the world who couldn't get past the first chapter of Atlas Shrugged? I opened the book, and my eyes glazed over. Same thing with Pride and Prejudice.

WHAT? The very first line in P&P sets the tone for the whole novel as a brilliant witticism on an entire social structure! It's hysterical! HERESY! TREASON! ARRGGHH! (Oh, did I say that out loud?)


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh