Trump Administration Makes Refugees Pay “Full Fare” to Be Evacuated From Puerto Rico

Priorities
Politics • Views: 36,067

Several Trump administration officials have now been reported to be using private luxury jets to fly around the country, and billing the government for it.

But today we learn that the Trump administration is requiring refugees to pay full fare to be evacuated from the island. And they plan to confiscate evacuees’ passports and hold them until they get their money.

“The Trump administration is making U.S. citizens pay ‘full fare’ to be evacuated from hurricane-ravaged Puerto Rico,” according to a Marketplace report. “What’s worse, the U.S. government, in accordance with a long-standing but discretionary policy, will hold the evacuees’ passports as collateral until it gets its money.”

That discretionary State Department rule still has not been waived, more than one week after Hurricane Maria obliterated the island.

The administration is demanding is that if an evacuee is flown off the island with help of the government, be it a charter or military flight, the refugee must pay the equivalent of “the price of the last commercial one-way, full-fare (not discounted) economy ticket prior to the crisis.”

So even if a evacuee previously purchased a discount ticket for a flight that got canceled, and then received government transportation, the evacuee would still have to pay the higher “full-fare” price.

The evacuee first signs a promissory note before being flown off the island. “And that promissory note obligates an evacuated person to repay the cost of the transportation to the U.S. government” according to a State Department website. If there’s an issue with the payment, the government retains the passport.

UPDATE at 9/28/17 11:18:03 am by Charles Johnson

State Department spokesperson Heather Nauert — formerly a co-host of Fox & Friends, Trump’s favorite TV show — says the MarketWatch report is wrong:

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But this doesn’t answer the question of whether the evacuees are required to sign promissory notes by some other agency.

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303 comments
1
Kragar  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:11:33am

Republicans are evil motherfuckers

2
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:12:04am

The last thing I would do is sign an open-ended promissory note.

3
makeitstop  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:14:16am

Katy Tur reported earlier that the State Department refuted this.

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4
Kragar  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:15:21am

Snopes states this is unproven currently

snopes.com

5
Patricia Kayden  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:17:01am

re: #4 Kragar

Snopes states this is unproven currently

snopes.com

Hopefully this turns out to be false. It sounds like something Trump would do though.

6
JordanRules  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:17:31am
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7
Kragar  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:19:14am

re: #6 JordanRules

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I say we concede to their demands, but with the stipulation that he is freed 30,000 feet somewhere over the North Atlantic

8
JordanRules  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:20:03am

re: #360 Eclectic Cyborg

Okay regading the “charging evacuees from Puerto Rico” story, it looks like most of the reports originated with a story from Marketwatch that was merely quoting standard State Dept. policy for certain types of evacuations.

The fact Puerto Rico is in the U.S. Should mean this policy doesn’t apply to them.

From upstairs or downstairs, depending on your view.

9
makeitstop  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:20:21am

re: #7 Kragar

I say we concede to their demands, but with the stipulation that he is freed 30,000 feet somewhere over the North Atlantic

Your proposal is acceptable.

10
Kragar  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:20:25am
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11
Patricia Kayden  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:20:42am

re: #6 JordanRules

They’ll soon be caught so the joke’s on them. Idiots.

12
Charles Johnson  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:21:22am

Normally I’d accept the word of a State Department spokesperson, but Heather Nauert is a former Fox & Friends co-host. Need I say more? And please note that her statement does NOT say evacuees aren’t being required to pay; it just says State isn’t evacuating them.

13
Sir John Barron  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:21:49am

re: #10 Kragar

Price shouldn’t have recused himself from Russia. If I’d known that I wouldn’t have hired him. Big mistake.

14
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:24:15am

Isn’t this considered gaslighting?

Well, as a father of an 11-week-old daughter, I hope you’re right. So back to Trump. You’ve known him a long time going back to your Miss America years, what did you think when he announced he was running?

I was one of the very few journalists who said not only will he be the Republican nominee, he will be president of the United States.

What made you think that?

Trump is a master marketer and that was always apparent to me in his appearances with me on Fox & Friends. On the show he would say, Well you know The Apprentice is the No. 1 show on television. And I would say live on the air, No it’s not. And he would say, Yes it is. And people at home would think, Well, I should watch the No. 1 show on television. And before you know it he had the No. 1 show on television. It’s indicative of how he won the presidency.

15
Sir John Barron  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:28:35am

re: #14 Birth Control Works

Trump is a master marketer and that was always apparent to me in his appearances with me on Fox & Friends. On the show he would say, Well you know The Apprentice is the No. 1 show on television.

Gonna find the tallest building around and jump

16
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:31:37am

awwww…payday loan POS is upset:

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17
JordanRules  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:32:10am

re: #15 Sir John Barron

Im looking too. Shall we make it a doubles jump?

18
Sir John Barron  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:32:16am

re: #16 Backwoods_Sleuth

awwww…payday loan POS is upset:

Cleaning up the air waves already.

19
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:32:39am

re: #12 Charles Johnson

Normally I’d accept the word of a State Department spokesperson, but Heather Nauert is a former Fox & Friends co-host. Need I say more? And please note that her statement does NOT say evacuees aren’t being required to pay; it just says State isn’t evacuating them.

At the moment, I wouldn’t lightly accept the word of anyone in Tillerson’s state department.

20
HappyWarrior  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:32:43am

re: #16 Backwoods_Sleuth

awwww…payday loan POS is upset:

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That bow tie…

21
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:32:47am

One day before Ripper Crew killer is freed, his prison release is delayed, officials say

THis one hits close to home. A friend of a friend of a sister-in-law was one of his victims.

22
HappyWarrior  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:34:14am

re: #21 Birth Control Works

One day before Ripper Crew killer is freed, his prison release is delayed, officials say

THis one hits close to home. A friend of a friend of a sister-in-law was one of his victims.

Read about those guys. Brutal doesn’t begin to describe it.

23
Kragar  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:36:20am
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24
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:37:21am

re: #23 Kragar

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$33 million of PR’s debt is Trump’s golf course bankruptcy…

25
goddamnedfrank  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:38:01am

Yashar sinks further into gross hackery.

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26
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:38:06am

re: #14 Birth Control Works

Yes.

In order to make it work, you must be able to lie constantly and shamelessly, and without any concern for being disputed, or even having your lies publicly refuted. Republicans spent so much effort over the last 4 decades challenging objective reality that they have no defense against a completely shameless liar.

What killed all of Trump’s competition in the Primaries was that they were still somewhat bound by shame. I mean, we may think of all Republicans as shameless liars, but they really aren’t, or at least they aren’t in the same league as Trump.

For example, he is running around saying that the new Tax Reform Plan will be bad for him, even though everything we know about how he makes his money makes it dead certain he’ll pay a lot LESS. Totally shameless lie. Absolutely untrue, indeed the diametric opposite of true. But he says it confidently, and no amount of facts brought to bear on him will shake that confidence.

27
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:38:26am
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28
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:39:41am

need . coffee

29
Barefoot Grin  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:40:40am

re: #27 Birth Control Works

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Evolutionary advantage: get to scare the shit out of people.

30
JordanRules  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:42:19am

re: #25 goddamnedfrank

I’m starting to think he really enjoys watching that propaganda network and really just sees it as a counterweight. Pathetic.

31
Belafon  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:43:36am

Interesting analysis:

Donald Trump could probably still shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and keep his base but not because they love him—it’s because they want to shoot someone. That prospect, which is apparently dawning on Trump, has got him a little down in the mouth since he backed the loser in Alabama’s Senate contest.
…
Strange’s loss Tuesday is a bigger problem for Trump than just one lost race. It means his “people” aren’t really his people. They’re just ticked off and Trump is their avatar of anger. Their loyalty isn’t to him, it’s to unleashing their wrath on the political class, the nation, and anything else they think has wronged them. And he’s replaceable when something better—or should we say, more rancid—comes along.

What this means is that the biggest leverage point he had against GOP lawmakers who distrust him has gone away. He can probably still make disloyal Republicans a lightening rod when they don’t do what he wants, but he can’t promise them protection in exchange for taking a tough vote. That ship sailed when Trump’s preferred candidate suffered a 9-point trouncing on Tuesday.

It also means that Trump’s supposed champion Steve Bannon—who campaigned enthusiastically for the bigoted anti-LGBTQ, anti-Muslim Roy Moore—has helped to effectively neuter Trump at a time when the stakes couldn’t be higher.

32
Sir John Barron  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:44:36am

re: #25 goddamnedfrank

Yashar sinks further into gross hackery.

I thought leaking stuff was great.

/

33
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:46:58am

re: #31 Belafon

Interesting analysis:

Donald Trump could probably still shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and keep his base but not because they love him—it’s because they want to shoot someone.

They take it as a n established fact that Obama and Hillary, etc. are criminals, just sneaky criminals. They delight in having elected a blatant criminal, and the more blatant the better.

34
lawhawk  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:47:14am

re: #23 Kragar

Think some of that info is incorrect:

The oversight board was established last year, when Puerto Rico was sinking under $123 billion of public debt and pension obligations that it amassed by years of borrowing to plug deficits. The federal bankruptcy code bans Puerto Rico from declaring bankruptcy, and by 2016, it was defaulting haphazardly on payment after payment, without any way to take shelter from the many resulting creditor lawsuits.

Other states can take advantage of the bankruptcy law, but PR is specifically prohibited from using that to reduce its debt burdens.

So, the GOP solution is to austerity the hell out of PR, extract every last penny, and sweep in and enrich the corporate titans (as usual). Everyone else gets screwed (again).

35
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:47:17am

re: #27 Birth Control Works

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Mutinus caninus and other dog stinkhorns are always fun ones to find.

36
jaunte  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:51:21am

While Puerto Rico is in crisis, Trump’s propaganda war of distraction continues, helped along as usual by Fox News. From today’s Fox Insider email, more kneeling/flag/patriot talking point hubbub:

37
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:51:46am

re: #31 Belafon

Interesting analysis:

Yeah, they want war. A lot of people want war.

Mostly those who won’t be fighting.

38
HappyWarrior  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:52:52am

re: #36 jaunte

While Puerto Rico is in crisis, Trump’s propaganda war of distraction continues, helped along as usual by Fox News. From today’s Fox Insider email, more kneeling/flag/patriot talking point hubbub:

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Fuck Fox.

39
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:54:04am

re: #38 HappyWarrior

Fuck Fox.

Not even in virtual reality.

40
jaunte  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:54:18am

re: #38 HappyWarrior

Fuck Fox.

And the rest of it. NOT ONE mention of Puerto Rico.

41
The Vicious Babushka  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:54:37am

re: #14 Birth Control Works

Isn’t this considered gaslighting?

The Apprentice was NEVER at any time the “Number 1 Show on Television”

42
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:55:19am

This policy isn’t new, although it has been waived before and subject to some debate. From an article in 2006:

As U.S. citizens scrambled to escape the fighting in Lebanon and the Pentagon announced a massive evacuation effort, another kind of battle — this one bitterly political — broke out in Washington over whether the evacuees should be billed for the costs of their own rescue.

Those seeking to leave were being asked to sign a promissory note, pledging to repay the U.S. government within 90 days for the costs of their evacuation. The paperwork in Beirut sent tempers through the roof in Washington, not to mention among some under fire in Lebanon who have been asked to sign the notes.

Also:

The State Department has been authorized to seek reimbursement for rescues since 1956, according to the department.

43
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:55:26am

I love watching dogs.

I scratch Feral Girl’s tummy and her eyes s . l . o . w . l . y close

44
danarchy  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:56:37am

re: #34 lawhawk

Think some of that info is incorrect:

Other states can take advantage of the bankruptcy law, but PR is specifically prohibited from using that to reduce its debt burdens.

So, the GOP solution is to austerity the hell out of PR, extract every last penny, and sweep in and enrich the corporate titans (as usual). Everyone else gets screwed (again).

I don’t think federal bankruptcy laws allow any state to declare bankruptcy. I think that came up a while back and there was some talk of changing the laws to allow states to take advantage of some bankruptcy provisions to restructure debt, but it never made it far in congress. Municipalities however can.

45
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:56:42am

re: #16 Backwoods_Sleuth

awwww…payday loan POS is upset:

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Good riddance.

46
JordanRules  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:56:43am

re: #41 The Vicious Babushka

Damn. The rare double gaslight. All these folks are crazy.

47
HappyWarrior  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:56:55am

re: #40 jaunte

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And the rest of it. NOT ONE mention of Puerto Rico.

They really are pathetic.

48
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:57:52am

re: #36 jaunte

While Puerto Rico is in crisis, Trump’s propaganda war of distraction continues, helped along as usual by Fox News. From today’s Fox Insider email, more kneeling/flag/patriot talking point hubbub:

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Labor is supposed to fear the capitalists.

49
jaunte  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:58:04am

re: #47 HappyWarrior

“If we don’t report, you can’t decide.”

50
Barefoot Grin  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:58:14am

re: #45 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

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Good riddance.

Yeah, a lot of those guys made serious money by opening shop right across the street from military bases.

51
JordanRules  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:58:26am

re: #40 jaunte

I saw a screengrab a day ago showing they had PR news listed in the tiny “World” section on one web view. SMH

52
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 11:58:40am

THis shit again:

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53
makeitstop  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:01:41pm

McCain and Mike Lee are trying to permanently waive the Jones Act for Puerto Rico.

President Donald Trump granted the U.S. territory a 10-day waiver to the Jones Act Thursday morning, but Sens. John McCain (R-AZ) and Mike Lee (R-UT) would like to see the hurricane-ravaged U.S. territory exempt from the law permanently.

The Jones Act, also called the Merchant Marine Act of 1920, restricts shipping between American ports to American ships with American crews only, which ends up making it twice as expensive to ship things from the U.S. to Puerto Rico as it is to ship from other foreign ports in the world, according to a joint statement from McCain’s and Lee’s offices.

McCain said he welcomed the President’s 10-day waiver, but said it was “insufficient to help the people of Puerto Rico recover and rebuild.”

“Our legislation would permanently exempt Puerto Rico from the Jones Act, an antiquated, protectionist law that has driven up costs and crippled Puerto Rico’s economy,” McCain said in a statement. “For years I have fought to fully repeal the Jones Act, which has long outlived its purpose to the benefit of special interests.”

54
HappyWarrior  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:02:41pm

re: #53 makeitstop

McCain and Mike Lee are trying to permanently waive the Jones Act for Puerto Rico.

Not a fan of them especially Lee but I don’t disagree with this at all.

55
JordanRules  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:02:48pm

This um interesting. Waiting to hear more.

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56
Charles Johnson  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:03:02pm

re: #25 goddamnedfrank

Yashar sinks further into gross hackery.

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I unfollowed a while back. He’s a dick - one of many egotistical journalists who respond to criticism with prickly defensiveness and insults.

57
electrotek  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:04:39pm

re: #56 Charles Johnson

I unfollowed a while back. He’s a dick - one of many egotistical journalists who responds to criticism with prickly defensiveness and insults.

What happened to Yashar? Was he always like this or something? For someone that agrees with much of his opinions, he does come across as a condescending dickhead at times.

58
Charles Johnson  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:05:30pm
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FormerDirtDart  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:05:46pm
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60
KGxvi  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:05:51pm

re: #23 Kragar

Texas population: 27.8m
Florida population: 20.6m
Puerto Rico population: 3.4m

Puerto Rico’s per capita debt is approximately $21,500. Texas is at about $9,800 per capita. Florida is at about $8,750. Puerto Rico’s debt crisis is real.

Of course, those facts don’t excuse Trump’s negligence (best case scenario) in handling the aftermath of Hurricane Maria. Nor is it the time to bitch/crow/complain about the debt crisis in Puerto Rico - something which is incredibly complex given the unique legal status of the island.

61
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:06:42pm

re: #56 Charles Johnson

I unfollowed a while back. He’s a dick - one of many egotistical journalists who respond to criticism with prickly defensiveness and insults.

The root of our problems is that most of us are irrational, territorial, apes seeking status.

62
Kragar  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:08:59pm
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63
Kragar  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:09:16pm

re: #61 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

The root of our problems is that most of us are irrational, territorial, apes seeking status.

Don’t make me fling poo at you

64
Sir John Barron  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:09:16pm

re: #36 jaunte

While Puerto Rico is in crisis, Trump’s propaganda war of distraction continues, helped along as usual by Fox News. From today’s Fox Insider email, more kneeling/flag/patriot talking point hubbub:

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Hmmm. When we mention Trump’s collusion with Russia the wingnuts tell us that IT’S NOT ILLEGAL.

Now with kneeling players they’re suddenly concerned about ‘civic virtue’.

65
HappyWarrior  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:09:42pm

re: #59 FormerDirtDart

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Calls Buzzfeed the listickle Russiaphobe on a listicle of Russiaphobes.

66
Barefoot Grin  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:09:56pm

re: #61 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

The root of our problems is that most of us are irrational, territorial, apes seeking status.

And with that I’m off to listen to the Kinks’ “Apeman.”

67
Sir John Barron  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:10:22pm

re: #59 FormerDirtDart

Congratulations! @SenJohnMcCain, you’re the number 1 ‘Lifelong’ Russophobe
— RT

I sense this tweet may not age well.

68
jaunte  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:10:38pm

re: #64 Sir John Barron

Yes, when the history of the Trump years is written I don’t think the term “civic virtue” will get much use.

69
KGxvi  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:11:11pm

re: #53 makeitstop

McCain and Mike Lee are trying to permanently waive the Jones Act for Puerto Rico.

Is there even any point in having the Jones Act at all today? I mean, I’m sure it’s a boon for my local community, since I live in Long Beach and the port there is one of the busiest in the world, but if international ships could stop there and then move on to San Diego or Seattle, is there a real impact?

70
Sir John Barron  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:13:56pm

re: #36 jaunte

While Puerto Rico is in crisis, Trump’s propaganda war of distraction continues, helped along as usual by Fox News. From today’s Fox Insider email, more kneeling/flag/patriot talking point hubbub:

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Wingnut sports fans burning team jackets might want to read a book, say, How To Win Friends And Influence People. Same goes for Drumpf and his Fox Network.

71
Kragar  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:15:14pm
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jaunte  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:15:27pm

re: #70 Sir John Barron

Wingnut sports fans burning team jackets might want to read a book, say, How To Win Friends And Influence People. Same goes for Drumpf and his Fox Network.

You know those same guys are just going to buy new fan apparel in a few months.

73
HappyWarrior  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:15:37pm

re: #69 KGxvi

Is there even any point in having the Jones Act at all today? I mean, I’m sure it’s a boon for my local community, since I live in Long Beach and the port there is one of the busiest in the world, but if international ships could stop there and then move on to San Diego or Seattle, is there a real impact?

Yeah seems outdated to me too.

74
jaunte  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:16:12pm

Oops; meeting called. Be back later.

75
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:16:51pm

re: #61 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

The root of our problems is that most of us are irrational, territorial, apes seeking status.

76
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:17:28pm

re: #62 Kragar

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They’re proposing yet again that we run the experiment to determine where on the Laffer Curve we are. Every time we do this experiment, it turns out we’re to the left of Ymax.

I’m laffing already
77
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:17:38pm

re: #64 Sir John Barron

Hmmm. When we mention Trump’s collusion with Russia the wingnuts tell us that IT’S NOT ILLEGAL.

Now with kneeling players they’re suddenly concerned about ‘civic virtue’.

Laundering money is illegal.

Not that he or anyone else will ever be prosecuted for it. He’ll be dead before the web is untangled by journalists and forensic accountants.

78
I cannot.  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:17:41pm

re: #72 jaunte

I love the guy that burnt his season tix. Nothing like literally setting large amounts of your own money on fire to stick it to The Man.

79
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:18:05pm

PZ isn’t buying the sonic attack at the Cuban embassy story.

freethoughtblogs.com

80
HappyWarrior  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:18:23pm

re: #78 I cannot.

I love the guy that burnt his season tix. Nothing like literally setting large amounts of your own money on fire to stick it to The Man.

That’ll show em!

81
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:18:36pm

re: #74 jaunte

Oops; meeting called. Be back later.

so sorry.

I hate meetings.

82
bratwurst  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:18:59pm

There is a lot of eyerolling over the (Republican!) Senator’s allegation that Russian internet trolls have been stoking the great NFL debate online. I posted this in the Thanos featured page on the topic, but I wanted to make sure that everyone sees a very real example of this.

To provide some context, I had replied to a tweet related to the rumored new US national team soccer jersey. As the team has yet to qualify for the World Cup (coincidentally in Russia) next year, I opined that these shirts might well be showing up at TJ Maxx. Check out the response:

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Note the mediocre English. Note the fact this is the first tweet from an account created 3 years ago. Note the number as part of the name.

This is a real live Russian troll.

83
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:19:10pm

re: #79 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

PZ isn’t buying the sonic attack at the Cuban embassy story.

freethoughtblogs.com

I don’t buy it either.

84
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:19:16pm

re: #78 I cannot.

I love the guy that burnt his season tix. Nothing like literally setting large amounts of your own money on fire to stick it to The Man.

Like going to a bookstore, and buying a book specifically to burn as a protest against that book.

85
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:19:46pm

re: #70 Sir John Barron

Wingnut sports fans burning team jackets might want to read a book, say, How To Win Friends And Influence People. Same goes for Drumpf and his Fox Network.

It allows them to feel like they’re part of something really stupid that’s bigger than they are. Being a Trump supporter has the same effect.

86
Ace-o-aces  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:20:55pm
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87
KGxvi  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:22:01pm

re: #86 Ace-o-aces

Well, I feel old… again.

88
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:23:07pm

re: #87 KGxvi

Well, I feel old… again.

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nines09  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:23:52pm

Hello. Turdsday and all is abnormal in Trumpistanistink. Imagine that.
Gotta find a wall shaking eff it all ain’t giving no shit no how no way ain’t get it get out old time horn driven guitar heavy screamer. Like James say…. HEYYYYYY…
Yeah….OT
Back to bending strings…

Black Joe Lewis & The Honeybears - Get Yo Shit

90
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:23:57pm

re: #85 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

It allows them to feel like they’re part of something really stupid that’s bigger than they are. Being a Trump supporter has the same effect.

I had a thought while forced listening to Fox.

About DF —and others — It’s like their father’s (perhaps unwittingly) conditioned a/k/a brainwashed a whole generation of young men into permanent cold war paranoia.

Trump fills that void. Finally a candidate that makes sense of the world as they have been groomed to see it.

Any idea that reality is different, that the world has moved on and that the cold war mindset is no longer valid messes with the brainwashing —as that brainwashing was done by their father —well, you get it.

91
Belafon  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:24:11pm

re: #78 I cannot.

Here’s how empty that gesture is: Season ticket holders can print out their tickets.

92
FormerDirtDart  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:24:26pm

Hey, you never know. There are plenty of stupid people out there.

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93
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:24:57pm

re: #92 FormerDirtDart

Hey, you never know. There are plenty of stupid people out there.

[Embedded content]

OMG!

94
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:25:05pm

re: #91 Belafon

Here’s how empty that gesture is: Season ticket holders can print out their tickets.

LMAO. These people are a complete joke.

95
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:26:47pm

We also need to separate the idea of equality for all from communism.

Women, LGBTQIA, dark-skinned people who want equality under the law are not communists.

Yet, that was a big selling point for communism in the early 1900’s.

96
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:30:06pm

re: #95 Birth Control Works

We also need to separate the idea of equality for all from communism.

Women, LGBTQIA, dark-skinned people who want equality under the law are not communists.

Yet, that was a big selling point for communism in the early 1900’s.

Apparently anything but white supremacy is “Cultural Marxism” to the American right.
It all comes back to the gutting of the Fairness Doctrine allowing the brainwashing of the right.

97
TedStriker  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:30:59pm

re: #38 HappyWarrior

Fuck Fox.

re: #39 Birth Control Works

Not even in virtual reality.

Not even with a stolen dick.

98
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:32:02pm

re: #97 TedStriker

Not even with a stolen dick.

You’ve given me an idea for a Virtual Reality game.

99
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:32:47pm

A Key to Long Term Memory Discovered

A memory may feel abstract or immaterial, but it is actually a biochemical process taking place in the brain. It involves neurons communicating with each other via the “wires” or synapses connecting them.

The pathway an electrochemical signal follows as it continually travels from neuron to synapse to neuron constitutes a memory. Whenever you have that memory, the same pathway gets activated. And the more it’s activated, the more it becomes hardwired into the brain’s circuitry. Eventually, it becomes a long-term memory.

Activation also requires enzymes, molecules that set off chemical reactions. The problem is that these enzymes don’t exist for longer than a week. If a memory is to endure, it would seem that the enzymes would have to remain functioning for years or even decades.

Once the enzymes turn off, one would expect the memories to go with them. “This became a holy grail in neuroscience,” Lisman says. “How can a molecule in your brain serve as a memory? How does Nature accomplish this?”

100
TedStriker  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:33:15pm

re: #98 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

You’ve given me an idea for a Virtual Reality game.

Credit goes to the late George Carlin.

101
FormerDirtDart  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:34:15pm

102
Cheechako  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:34:22pm

The Jones Act has a significant affect on Alaska’s Ferry System. Ferries from Ketchikan to Bellingham WA can not stop in Prince Rupert BC in either direction. Instead, the Ferry System has to schedule separate trips from Ketchikan to Prince Rupert and back. Makes it very inefficient when a ship has to sail past a community that is a popular destination.

When we travel south, we get off the ferry in Prince Rupert because the Ferry System charges 2 1/2 times more to go on to Bellingham. The disadvantage is that it’s 1,000 miles by road from Prince Rupert to Bellingham. Since we have the time, driving this route still saves a large chunk of cash. Plus, this is a beautiful scenic drive.

103
Charles Johnson  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:34:37pm

re: #69 KGxvi

Is there even any point in having the Jones Act at all today? I mean, I’m sure it’s a boon for my local community, since I live in Long Beach and the port there is one of the busiest in the world, but if international ships could stop there and then move on to San Diego or Seattle, is there a real impact?

The only reason we still have the Jones Act is because it gives the US shipping industry a huge advantage, and they’d scream if it were repealed.

104
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:35:11pm

Carbon found in 3.95bn-year-old rocks is remnant of ancient life -

researchers
Graphite particles suggest that the first organisms emerged on Earth more than 4bn years ago during one of the most violent periods in our planet’s history

105
EPR-radar  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:36:33pm

re: #71 Kragar

It’s not as if Gorsuch meeting with big business anti-union types now will make any difference in how he rules on their case. His vote on such questions has been fully determined since early childhood.

This is why the plutocrats prefer to install well-trained ideologues to get what they want — ideologues don’t even need to be bribed to perform.

106
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:36:52pm

re: #100 TedStriker

Credit goes to the late George Carlin.

Saw him on stage once.

Nearly peed in my pants from laughing so hard.

107
Romantic Heretic  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:37:30pm

re: #7 Kragar

I say we concede to their demands, but with the stipulation that he is freed 30,000 feet somewhere over the North Atlantic

My first thought.

108
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:37:51pm
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109
Ace-o-aces  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:39:32pm
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110
Cheechako  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:40:21pm

re: #103 Charles Johnson

The only reason we still have the Jones Act is because it gives the US shipping industry a huge advantage, and they’d scream if it were repealed.

Also, the Maritime Unions strongly supports the Jones Act because…jobs!!!

111
FormerDirtDart  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:41:17pm
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112
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:41:51pm

re: #109 Ace-o-aces

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The weak minded fool has me blocked.

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113
I Would Prefer Not To  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:42:50pm

I love HIm.

Obama Says Leaving Malia at College Was ‘Like Open-Heart Surgery’

NY Times

114
Belafon  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:43:41pm

re: #109 Ace-o-aces

What’s the original tweet?

115
JordanRules  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:44:37pm

re: #105 EPR-radar

The meeting is an opportunity to move some money. It’s at one of Twitler’s hotels.

116
I Would Prefer Not To  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:44:52pm

re: #109 Ace-o-aces

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Fuck you Erik. Perhaps if we give millionaires more tax breaks that will solve it

117
EPR-radar  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:44:57pm

re: #109 Ace-o-aces

This is stupid, even for Erickson. NFL players taking a knee is specifically directed at the “police shooting black people” issue.

But this is conservative word-vomit pail #2: “Your protest/action/whatever does not instantly, categorically and indisputably solve all real and imaginary problems for all time in this world and also in all possible worlds. Therefore it is futile and counterproductive.”

118
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:45:25pm

re: #113 I Would Prefer Not To

I love HIm.

Obama Says Leaving Malia at College Was ‘Like Open-Heart Surgery’

NY Times

Trump had a hard time leaving Ivanka at university too, because his tiny, grubby, hands were suddenly empty.

119
I Would Prefer Not To  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:46:07pm

re: #118 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Trump had a hard time leaving Ivanka at university too, because his tiny, grubby, hands were suddenly empty.

Is that when he had to pay the Russian Hookers.

120
Sir John Barron  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:47:03pm

re: #117 EPR-radar

This is stupid, even for Erickson. NFL players taking a knee is specifically directed at the “police shooting black people” issue.

But this is conservative word-vomit pail #2: “Your protest/action/whatever does not instantly, categorically and indisputably solve all real and imaginary problems for all time in this world and also in all possible worlds. Therefore it is futile and counterproductive.”

Why does the kneeling bother him so much?

122
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:47:18pm

re: #119 I Would Prefer Not To

Is that when he had to pay the Russian Hookers.

Trump doesn’t pay for hookers. He receives them as gifts from friends like Putin.

123
HappyWarrior  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:47:48pm

Chicago *drink*

124
FormerDirtDart  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:47:54pm

re: #103 Charles Johnson

The only reason we still have the Jones Act is because it gives the US shipping industry a huge advantage, and they’d scream if it were repealed.

re: #110 Cheechako

Also, the Maritime Unions strongly supports the Jones Act because…jobs!!!

I see the Jones Act in play almost daily.
Across the river I watch massive barges loaded with containers and rail cars, then towed off to ports unknown.

125
EPR-radar  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:48:14pm

re: #120 Sir John Barron

Why does the kneeling bother him so much?

Because it is a liberal protest that is getting noticed. Conservatives hate that.

126
HappyWarrior  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:48:50pm

re: #113 I Would Prefer Not To

I love HIm.

Obama Says Leaving Malia at College Was ‘Like Open-Heart Surgery’

NY Times

I miss him. Such a decent man.

127
sagehen  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:48:52pm

re: #113 I Would Prefer Not To

I love HIm.

Obama Says Leaving Malia at College Was ‘Like Open-Heart Surgery’

NY Times

My mom had a different take on the question.

All through high school, I lost track of how many times she’d wistfully look up to the sky and say “I can’t wait to be an empty-nester. That will be so wonderful.”

She told my sister and I that if after graduating college we couldn’t find jobs that paid enough to live on…. “I’ll supplement your income. Really. Matching funds. I’ll give you a down payment and co-sign your mortgage. Whatever it takes to keep you from moving back here.”

128
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:49:10pm

re: #120 Sir John Barron

Why does the kneeling bother him so much?

Maybe because it makes Black people look like they’re Christian, and they’re not Erick’s kind of KKKristian.

More seriously, defying authority is very upsetting to Conservatives when they’re controlling the government. RWNJ leadership must be obeyed, and those with money must be in control.

129
TedStriker  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:49:33pm

re: #110 Cheechako

Also, the Maritime Unions strongly supports the Jones Act because…jobs!!!

Well, yeah, because everything that comes to the US from overseas that has to be ferried to another US port is either going to be loaded on rail for most of the CONUS or put back on ships for PR, HI, AK, and other areas where rail is not suitable.

130
HappyWarrior  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:49:45pm

re: #125 EPR-radar

Because it is a liberal protest that is getting noticed. Conservatives hate that.

Pretty much. It’s also showing how hypocritical they were about Kim Davis and the “Christian bakers.”

131
HappyWarrior  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:50:25pm

re: #128 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Maybe because it makes Black people look like they’re Christian, and they’re not Erick’s kind of KKKristian.

More seriously, defying authority is very upsetting to Conservatives when they’re controlling the government. RWNJ leadership must be obeyed, and those with money must be in control.

Scratch a conservative, chances are good you’ll find an authoritarian.

132
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:50:29pm

re: #130 HappyWarrior

Pretty much. It’s also showing how hypocritical they were about Kim Davis and the “Christian bakers.”

Hypocrisy is a Conservative value to be cherished and defended.

133
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:51:15pm

re: #131 HappyWarrior

Scratch a conservative, chances are good you’ll find an authoritarian.

Yep. “Conservative” is what they call themselves when sane people are in power, so they want to limit that power. Elect a nut, and they show what they are.

134
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:51:45pm

re: #125 EPR-radar

Because it is a liberal protest that is getting noticed. Conservatives hate that.

It’s an individual protest that many are choosing to do.

I’m so FREAKING TIRED of the use of labels to identify people.

Individuals who think differently are not to be objectified, put into a category and then disregarded like out-of-date jello.

For those who are definitely the fringe of the fringe, I still use the word ‘WHACKOS’.

135
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:52:48pm

re: #134 Birth Control Works

It’s an individual protest that many are choosing to do.

I’m so FREAKING TIRED of the use of labels to identify people.

Individuals who think differently are not objectified, put into a category and then disregarded like out-of-date jello.

For those who are definitely the fringe of the fringe, I still use the word ‘WHACKOS’.

You’re now an anti-labelist.

136
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:53:12pm

re: #135 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

You’re now an anti-labelist.

guilty as charged

products are labeled

137
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:54:40pm

Having listened to Fox for the past 3 days, I can tell you the use of labels is not a good thing.

138
Targetpractice  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:55:26pm

re: #125 EPR-radar

Because it is a liberal protest that is getting noticed. Conservatives hate that.

Ayep, that’s what it comes down to. It’s the real world intruding on the cocoon that white wingnuts have created around themselves and it drives them nuts. It’s why they’re especially pissed at white players, owners, and particularly Goodell for “not putting those uppity ni-CLANGs in their place.”

139
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:56:09pm

Also been thinking about economics .

With 7 billion people on the planet —we are overpopulated.

too much of a resource = low price.

human life is cheap.

Explains the thought process of so many —no?

140
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:57:47pm

re: #139 Birth Control Works

Also been thinking about economics .

With 7 billion people on the planet —we are overpopulated.

too much of a resource = low price.

human life is cheap.

Explains the thought process of so many —no?

Human life was dirt-cheap for most of history, even before we overpopulated. This idea that human life is valuable is pretty new.

141
FormerDirtDart  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:57:55pm

Twitter Statement
Update: Russian Interference in 2016 US Election, Bots, & Misinformation

142
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:58:42pm

re: #140 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Human life was dirt-cheap for most of history, even before we overpopulated. This idea that human life is valuable is pretty new.

brought to us by religion?

143
I Would Prefer Not To  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:58:48pm

re: #141 FormerDirtDart

Twitter Statement
Update: Russian Interference in 2016 US Election, Bots, & Misinformation

Is it 140 or 280 characters?

144
sagehen  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:59:17pm

re: #121 Birth Control Works

Explore the World’s Largest Online Database of Jewish Art, from Antiquity to Today

I love Chagall with a passion.

did you know… when the scriptwriter was trying to adapt Sholem Aleichem’s stories for Broadway, Chagall’s autobiography was part of his research. Chagall’s family had more cattle than anyone else in their shtetl; when it was Marc’s turn to watch them he wandered the fields petting them and checking up on each individually. When it was his uncle’s turn, uncle used to perch on top of their home and play his violin while watching the entire field at once. The scriptwriter was quite taken by that image; that’s how “Fiddler On The Roof” got its name and the opening number.

145
Targetpractice  Sep 28, 2017 • 12:59:36pm

You’ll notice that most of the same arguments crop up among wingnuts: “If only Goodell had done something about Kaepernick, this wouldn’t have happened!”

That’s Southern plantation thinking, the idea that you gotta deal with an “uppity” slave quickly before the others see what he’s doing and “get ideas.”

146
Sir John Barron  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:00:15pm

re: #145 Targetpractice

You’ll notice that most of the same arguments crop up among wingnuts: “If only Goodell had done something about Kaepernick, this wouldn’t have happened!”

That’s Southern plantation thinking, the idea that you gotta deal with an “uppity” slave quickly before the others see what he’s doing and “get ideas.”

And the “But look how much money these ungrateful players make!” mentality.

147
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:00:19pm

re: #144 sagehen

I love Chagall with a passion.

did you know… when the scriptwriter was trying to adapt Sholem Aleichem’s stories for Broadway, Chagall’s autobiography was part of his research. Chagall’s family had more cattle than anyone else in their shtetl; when it was Marc’s turn to watch them he wandered the fields petting them and checking up on each individually. When it was his uncle’s turn, uncle used to perch on top of their home and play his violin while watching the entire field at once. The scriptwriter was quick taken by that image; that’s how “Fiddler On The Roof” got its name and the opening number.

so very kewl!

148
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:00:45pm

re: #142 Birth Control Works

brought to us by religion?

Nah. Religion is older than when we started valuing life.

149
FormerDirtDart  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:01:51pm

re: #143 I Would Prefer Not To

Is it 140 or 280 characters?

Couple thousand words

150
Targetpractice  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:02:05pm

re: #146 Sir John Barron

And the “But look how much money these ungrateful players make!” mentality.

Ayep, the mentality that they own these players through the paychecks they’re cut, that a player surrenders his rights the moment he makes it into the big leagues.

151
Birth Control Works  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:02:14pm

time to nap with puppies.

bbl

152
goddamnedfrank  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:03:15pm

re: #69 KGxvi

Is there even any point in having the Jones Act at all today? I mean, I’m sure it’s a boon for my local community, since I live in Long Beach and the port there is one of the busiest in the world, but if international ships could stop there and then move on to San Diego or Seattle, is there a real impact?

Foreign ships can already do that, they just can’t pick up new cargo at one US port and then offload it at another. I’m not sure how much intra US shipping even occurs outside Hawaii/Alaska and the mainland given the need to go through the Panama Canal to go between the East Coast to the West. Unless the final destination is right next to the receiving port itself it’s probably cheaper to go with rail or trucking.

153
Belafon  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:03:29pm

re: #145 Targetpractice

You’ll notice that most of the same arguments crop up among wingnuts: “If only Goodell had done something about Kaepernick, this wouldn’t have happened!”

That’s Southern plantation thinking, the idea that you gotta deal with an “uppity” slave quickly before the others see what he’s doing and “get ideas.”

It’s the thinking of the grasshoppers in A Bug’s Life.

154
JordanRules  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:04:39pm

re: #145 Targetpractice

The funny thing is, they did do and continue to do something about Kaep.

155
Nyet  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:05:14pm

I think I have reached the peak of weird on twitter.

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156
HappyWarrior  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:06:41pm

re: #154 JordanRules

The funny thing is, they did do and continue to do something about Kaep.

What pisses me off is how they call every black player a thug who goes against them.

157
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:06:56pm

re: #154 JordanRules

The funny thing is, they did do and continue to do something about Kaep.

Yeah, but some of these people won’t be happy until he’s strange fruit.

158
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:07:32pm

re: #156 HappyWarrior

What pisses me off is how they call every black player a thug who goes against them.

Any black person anywhere who isn’t a hardcore RW-“Christian”.

159
Sir John Barron  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:07:46pm

re: #150 Targetpractice

Ayep, the mentality that they own these players through the paychecks they’re cut, that a player surrenders his rights the moment he makes it into the big leagues.

And given the racial imbalances between who watches and who plays in the games the attitude that the players are there to perform on cue for the lubed up fans is something almost out of Roman slave society and the coliseums.

160
Sir John Barron  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:09:13pm

re: #154 JordanRules

The funny thing is, they did do and continue to do something about Kaep.

Yeah, he’s not even in the league. Trump basically created these newest protests.

161
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:10:07pm

re: #160 Sir John Barron

Yeah, he’s not even in the league. Trump basically created these newest protests.

As a distraction.

162
Targetpractice  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:10:12pm

re: #154 JordanRules

The funny thing is, they did do and continue to do something about Kaep.

True, but the wingnuts are authoritarians and authoritarians believe that the only effective punishment is the kind that’s done publicly and in as ruthless a fashion as possible. Thus they don’t feel being unofficially blackballed from the league was enough, they believe Goodell needed to “make an example of him.”

163
I Would Prefer Not To  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:10:22pm

re: #160 Sir John Barron

Yeah, he’s not even in the league. Trump basically created these newest protests.

Trump never misses an opportunity to fuck things up. It’s a reverse Midas touch.

164
HappyWarrior  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:11:08pm

re: #158 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Any black person anywhere who isn’t a hardcore RW-“Christian”.

Pretty much.

165
FormerDirtDart  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:11:48pm

The Thirty Meter Telescope (TMT) atop Mauna Kea

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166
HappyWarrior  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:12:08pm

And man am I sick of other white people using MLK to attempt to dismiss black peoples’ protests and concerns for our nation. So patronizing.

167
Sir John Barron  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:12:50pm

re: #161 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

As a distraction.

And now the issue is really more than ‘police violence’. Now the issue is, do the owners and players cave in to demands that we coerce a certain form of patriotic expression? This is what Trump and the wingnuts are really trying to do.

168
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:13:48pm

re: #127 sagehen

My mom had a different take on the question.

All through high school, I lost track of how many times she’d wistfully look up to the sky and say “I can’t wait to be an empty-nester. That will be so wonderful.”

She told my sister and I that if after graduating college we couldn’t find jobs that paid enough to live on…. “I’ll supplement your income. Really. Matching funds. I’ll give you a down payment and co-sign your mortgage. Whatever it takes to keep you from moving back here.”

When I graduated from college, my Mom said, “Congratulations! You can stay the summer…..”

169
Sir John Barron  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:15:16pm

re: #167 Sir John Barron

And now the issue is really more than ‘police violence’. Now the issue is, do the owners and players cave in to demands that we coerce a certain form of patriotic expression? This is what Trump and the wingnuts are really trying to do.

And this issue has been percolating for some time I think, especially since 9/11, but it’s remained mostly implicit. “Watch as we add more and more gratuitous military garland to the show”.

170
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:15:35pm

re: #168 Blind Frog Belly White

When I graduated from college, my Mom said, “Congratulations! You can stay the summer…..”

You graduated college, and stayed an extra summer? I was on my own with a girlfriend as soon as I graduated high school.

171
Nyet  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:16:00pm

re: #165 FormerDirtDart

Great news for science.

172
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:16:47pm

re: #171 Nyet

Great news for science.

Giant telescopes should be sacred.

173
FormerDirtDart  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:17:25pm

Republican Bruce Rauner

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In hours they’ll be burning him in effigy

174
Belafon  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:18:18pm

re: #173 FormerDirtDart

Republican Bruce Rauner

In hours they’ll be burning him in effigy

One of the things Republicans in Congress were trying to ban.

175
Nyet  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:18:26pm

re: #172 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Giant telescopes should be sacred.

I declare them sacred in the name of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

176
goddamnedfrank  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:18:26pm
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177
TedStriker  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:19:20pm

re: #146 Sir John Barron

And the “But look how much money these ungrateful players make!” mentality.

And “They should thank GAWD they aren’t getting shot in the head!!!11ty”

178
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:19:56pm

re: #170 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

You graduated college, and stayed an extra summer? I was on my own with a girlfriend as soon as I graduated high school.

Back in the 60s and 70s, my parents could (barely) afford to have two kids at a time in a decent private college. That was their gift to us.

Spending money while AT college came from what we earned over the summers, and they made sure I had a job every summer - easy in a county whose economy depends on tourism and fruit. My college also had a trimester system that meant we had all of December off. And every goddam December, Dad got me a job for a month at the plant.

179
EPR-radar  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:20:50pm

re: #166 HappyWarrior

And man am I sick of other white people using MLK to attempt to dismiss black peoples’ protests and concerns for our nation. So patronizing.

This is especially irritating since the exact same dismissals were attempted by supposed ‘moderates’ vs. MLK and those protests at the time.

180
FormerDirtDart  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:24:29pm
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181
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:25:01pm

re: #178 Blind Frog Belly White

December in Pennsylvania, and my job was prying the lids off of partially thawed 5 gallon cans of fruit frozen with sugar (and therefore ‘thawed’ is still below freezing), and dumping them on the line.

182
Sir John Barron  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:25:19pm

There’s no telling how puffed up and triumphant Drump will act if he can brag about how he made all those uppity ungrateful players stand for the anthem.

183
Single-handed sailor  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:25:42pm

Exclusive: Kushner didn’t disclose personal email account to Senate intel committee

CNN has also learned that the chair and vice chair of the committee were so unhappy that they learned about the existence of his personal email account via news reports that they wrote him a letter via his attorney Thursday instructing him to double-check that he has turned over every relevant document to the committee including those from his “‘personal email account’ described to the news media, as well as all other email accounts, messaging apps, or similar communications channels you may have used, or that may contain information relevant to our inquiry.”

184
TedStriker  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:26:26pm

re: #154 JordanRules

The funny thing is, they did do and continue to do something about Kaep.

He may have been the luckiest middling QB to go to the SB in recent years, but Kaepernick still has talent and skill; however, it wouldn’t surprise me if he was put on some informal blacklist amongst the owners, GMs, and coaches labeling him a “troublemaker” after his initial protest.

185
petesh  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:26:50pm

re: #161 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

As a distraction.

Absolutely. Coming right after losing his health bill, right before losing the Alabaster primary, while catching PR shit for PR (sorry) … Trump flailed around for anything that would enrage his shrinking base.

Mind you, I got criticized elsewhere for saying that, on the grounds that BLM is a major and really important issue, to which my response is that I can hold two complementary ideas in my head at the same time. The key is to flip the conversation back to the origins of Kap’s protest — and to be fair some of the sports stars (Steph Curry, take a bow, along with Pop) have actively tried to do that.

The media (pace Dave Zirin, Charles Pierce and a few others) sucks.

186
makeitstop  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:26:59pm

re: #182 Sir John Barron

There’s no telling how puffed up and triumphant Drump will act if he can brag about how he made all those uppity ungrateful players stand for the anthem.

I would think the Players’ Association would weigh in at some point.

187
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:27:04pm

re: #146 Sir John Barron

And the “But look how much money these ungrateful players make!” mentality.

I’ve seen a lot of that among my otherwise moderate/liberal FB friends. I posted an article, “Ungrateful Is The New Uppity”, but I’m pretty certain they didn’t read it.

188
lawhawk  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:27:20pm
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189
Targetpractice  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:28:55pm

Wow, a $1000 in tax relief. You can almost think about making a down-payment on a used car.

////

190
JordanRules  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:31:26pm

re: #184 TedStriker

That is what happened. Everybody in the league concedes he should at least be a backup. He was blackballed.

191
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:31:27pm

re: #189 Targetpractice

Wow, a $1000 in tax relief. You can almost think about making a down-payment on a used car.

////

I mean, you could probably buy my car for that. Maybe.

Then again, my car is 20 years old and has over 150k miles on it. And shouldn’t be driven anywhere that gets salt on the roads regularly because the exhaust system might finish rusting out then. And has a small oil leak somewhere near the engine that I have yet to get dealt with.

But I think that’s probably where the blue book value is for it now.

192
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:31:29pm

re: #188 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

A few years back, Democrats essentially called the GOP’s bluff on the whole “Estate Tax Harms Farmers and Small Businesses!!” ruse, by crafting a bill for exclusions from the Estate Tax that would eliminate pretty much all farms and small businesses.

Nope. GOP wouldn’t pass it, because it’s not about farms and small businesses. We have one party in favor of establishing a moneyed aristocracy.

193
EPR-radar  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:31:30pm

re: #189 Targetpractice

Wow, a $1000 in tax relief. You can almost think about making a down-payment on a used car.

////

A $1000 kitchen remodel would be worse — that’ll get you a hole in the wall and a missing plumbing fixture or two.

194
EPR-radar  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:34:12pm

re: #192 Blind Frog Belly White

A few years back, Democrats essentially called the GOP’s bluff on the whole “Estate Tax Harms Farmers and Small Businesses!!” ruse, by crafting a bill for exclusions from the Estate Tax that would eliminate pretty much all farms and small businesses.

Nope. GOP wouldn’t pass it, because it’s not about farms and small businesses. We have one party in favor of establishing a moneyed aristocracy.

The estate tax is the single best tax we have in the system, except that I doubt it’s actually being collected on massive fortunes like the Waltons etc.

GOP whining about the family farm and the little guy is obviated by the fact that it only kicks in above several million dollars.

To be blunt, why on earth shouldn’t massive amounts of unearned income be taxed?

195
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:34:34pm

re: #189 Targetpractice

Wow, a $1000 in tax relief. You can almost think about making a down-payment on a used car.

////

Shit, you can’t even buy a good bike for that.

196
Targetpractice  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:35:14pm

re: #166 HappyWarrior

And man am I sick of other white people using MLK to attempt to dismiss black peoples’ protests and concerns for our nation. So patronizing.

These players are acting in the very spirit of Dr. King: non-violent protest through civil disobedience. No one is being hurt by their actions, they are continuing to play games, they are simply refusing to stand for a display of forced patriotism.

It’s no wonder that the ideological descendants of those who once would have lynched those same men are so ate up with anger and bile. Their authority’s being flouted and done so in a fashion for which they have absolutely no power to respond.

197
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:35:36pm

re: #194 EPR-radar

The estate tax is the single best tax we have in the system, except that I doubt it’s actually being collected on massive fortunes like the Waltons etc.

GOP whining about the family farm and the little guy is obviated by the fact that it only kicks in above several million dollars.

To be blunt, why on earth shouldn’t massive amounts of unearned income be taxed?

Because rich people have it.

198
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:35:47pm
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199
JordanRules  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:36:02pm

re: #186 makeitstop

They have a historically bad players union, but their statement after the Yam’s comments was good. I don’t know what to expect from them going forward though.

And then there is the NBA’s players union which has been pretty good. They do have a rule that mandates they stand for the Anthem though.

This is all going to get more convoluted, trust.

200
TedStriker  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:36:13pm

re: #190 JordanRules

That is what happened. Everybody in the league concedes he should at least be a backup. He was blackballed.

Now, the NFL has what seems to be half the players in the league doing it, which means they can’t really do the same thing without being patently obvious, so they have to publicly support the new protests, lest they get roasted in the press and on the Internet.

201
lawhawk  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:37:46pm

re: #194 EPR-radar

Current threshold for federal estate tax is $5.49 million for 2017. So that mom and pop farm that’s valued at $2 million?

Not affected.

That small business on Main Street valued at $4 million? Not taxed.

Trump’s billion dollar estate when he finally joins up with his dear departed dad? Taxed.

Only less than 0.1% of taxpayers actually face the estate tax, and yet the GOP has sold this as something everyone needs to worry about. That’s total bullshit. And the lost revenue needs to be made up elsewhere - and the GOP solution is to cut services/safety net (as always).

202
goddamnedfrank  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:37:56pm

re: #188 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

How can he even say that with a straight face given that they’re eliminating the State and local income and property tax deductions? This is targeted directly at people living in cities and on the coasts. Just another massive wealth transfer designed to benefit red States at the expense of places that actually maintain their infrastructure and public services.

203
ObserverArt  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:38:07pm

re: #16 Backwoods_Sleuth

awwww…payday loan POS is upset:

Local 12/WKRC-TV ✔@Local12
Check Into Cash owner pulls ads from @NFL, calls protests ‘unpatriotic’: bit.ly
2:30 PM - Sep 28, 2017
6 6 Replies 1 1 Retweet 15 15 likes

Wait a second. I can’t say the last time I ever saw a Check Into Cash ad on TV let alone on something like an NFL game that has pretty high ad rates.

Is this guy just saying this for some free name recognition and attention?

Would it surprise anyone if a dirtbag that has a shark loan company that takes advantage of many of the same people that are all bent out of shape about people of color protesting in America is bullshit this?

And, I doubt that even if he does run ads he doesn’t run many. So he is probably not hurting the TV networks much. Those ads will sell to someone else easily.

204
EPR-radar  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:38:25pm

re: #190 JordanRules

That is what happened. Everybody in the league concedes he should at least be a backup. He was blackballed.

That’s not enough for the Orange Anus and his Hemorrhoid Remora Army. They want their racism and fascism right out in the open so it can be publicly validated. That’s what they really miss about the days when a lynching was a time for the whole town to celebrate with picnics etc.

205
Charles Johnson  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:38:34pm

Just found out that usps.com has a pretty cool new feature called “Informed Delivery” that shows images of the snail mail you’re going to receive that day. You can set it to send you an email with the images every morning.

Now we can see which bills we’re going to receive before we receive them, and get upset even earlier in the day.

206
nines09  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:38:57pm

Time Bomb.
Little George got the props, but these guys slayed. This was one insanely great band.

Little Feat Old Folks Boogie 1977 Special

207
lawhawk  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:40:50pm

Another way that millionaires like Trump would benefit is that they’d reduce the tax rate on pass throughs down to 25%. So, instead of paying the 39.6% rate, the tax rate would drop to… 25%.

We can do the math - it’s another huge giveaway to the rich.

208
goddamnedfrank  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:41:09pm

re: #191 klys (maker of Silmarils)

I mean, you could probably buy my car for that. Maybe.

Then again, my car is 20 years old and has over 150k miles on it. And shouldn’t be driven anywhere that gets salt on the roads regularly because the exhaust system might finish rusting out then. And has a small oil leak somewhere near the engine that I have yet to get dealt with.

But I think that’s probably where the blue book value is for it now.

My old VW Passat was kind of like that before I got rid of it a couple years ago. The last straw was when trying to get it past the smog check turned into a medieval quest. As God is my witness I will never, ever own another turbo.

209
FormerDirtDart  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:41:56pm

re: #183 Single-handed sailor

Exclusive: Kushner didn’t disclose personal email account to Senate intel committee

CNN has also learned that the chair and vice chair of the committee were so unhappy that they learned about the existence of his personal email account via news reports that they wrote him a letter via his attorney Thursday instructing him to double-check that he has turned over every relevant document to the committee including those from his “‘personal email account’ described to the news media, as well as all other email accounts, messaging apps, or similar communications channels you may have used, or that may contain information relevant to our inquiry.”

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210
Jebediah, RBG  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:42:20pm

re: #195 Blind Frog Belly White

Shit, you can’t even buy a good bike for that.

But you can get a pretty darn OK used guitar!

211
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:42:54pm

re: #208 goddamnedfrank

My old VW Passat was kind of like that before I got rid of it a couple years ago. The last straw was when trying to get it past the smog check turned into a medieval quest. As God is my witness I will never, ever own another turbo.

We have the $$ set aside for buying another car when a failed smog check or accident or whatever says I should. Or if I start driving enough that the advances in safety features over the past 20 years make sense to have.

But for the moment I will take the cheaper insurance. (I adore driving this car. It’s going to break my heart when it’s gone.)

212
Barefoot Grin  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:42:58pm

re: #206 nines09

Time Bomb.
Little George got the props, but these guys slayed. This was one insanely great band.

[Embedded content]

Great show! I saw them through an enormous cloud of pot smoke. People were literally lighting joints and just passing them down the rows of seats.

213
TedStriker  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:43:23pm

re: #203 ObserverArt

Wait a second. I can’t say the last time I ever saw a Check Into Cash ad on TV let alone on something like an NFL game that has pretty high ad rates.

Is this guy just saying this for some free name recognition and attention?

Would it surprise anyone if a dirtbag that has a shark loan company that takes advantage of many of the same people that are all bent out of shape about people of color protesting in America is bullshit this?

And, I doubt that even if he does run ads he doesn’t run many. So he is probably not hurting the TV networks much. Those ads will sell to someone else easily.

YOdaAOtSvzfd2kb9roHkpiL+DFE2flSslVqTXPUjlIET8dkCc472kdVCskS5+PUX/SsLxS9viJLSJs0n+nm9RKhncAAJglGO0nHmKt2cxbK0omh2QAQ3FZhh7BCMO7KVsc+4CEtmXWcONT7OHXBQoprKIM1qekERFOCkPegSm5I6iJ0HWvucMpwMd26hYz7UgP8nWWc8oUkCF6LsZjfMYW/fMQNP/xbZ+hCCcA9NIw6mEt1y1QamTqxUTC2eNdaoZdxJbIOdrV+ZMICtnB+z9TWR9kU/JwCOssQ6YAPNnK75JOMnTUSOAXFVhvzBFXt8lxRP0SYLU05/nXaVnXacRA==

214
Targetpractice  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:43:27pm

In today’s “IOKIYAR” column:

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So remember folks, if you’re a Republican, just “apologize” for getting caught and “promise” to reimburse taxpayers and the hypocrisy of railing against “government waste” while you’re using private planes on the taxpayer dime magically goes away.

215
lawhawk  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:44:23pm
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Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:44:36pm

re: #209 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

Why would a prankster need bitcoin? In my day we’d prank for free.

217
Renaissance_Man  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:44:43pm

re: #194 EPR-radar

The estate tax is the single best tax we have in the system, except that I doubt it’s actually being collected on massive fortunes like the Waltons etc.

GOP whining about the family farm and the little guy is obviated by the fact that it only kicks in above several million dollars.

To be blunt, why on earth shouldn’t massive amounts of unearned income be taxed?

The rational argument against it is the idea that the money is being taxed twice - once when being earned, and again upon inheritance. While I can agree somewhat with the principle, the reality is that it is meant to help stop establishment of aristocracy, which is well worth it. That said, all efforts to stop establishment of aristocracy and plutocracy in the US appear to have failed.

218
Charles Johnson  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:44:46pm
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Sir John Barron  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:45:03pm

re: #199 JordanRules

And then there is the NBA’s players union which has been pretty good. They do have a rule that mandates they stand for the Anthem though.

I wonder how that came about. Anyway, we can expect that rule to be implemented by the NFL at some point, after an appropriate time period has passed so it doesn’t appear directly and immediately the result of Yam’s demands.

I’d still like to know what is so disrespectful about kneeling, as opposed to standing.

220
Sir John Barron  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:46:18pm

re: #214 Targetpractice

In today’s “IOKIYAR” column:

So remember folks, if you’re a Republican, just “apologize” for getting caught and “promise” to reimburse taxpayers and the hypocrisy of railing against “government waste” while you’re using private planes on the taxpayer dime magically goes away.

But, but Erick son of Erick said Price and all Trump cabinet members need to fly special because antifa will kill them all.

221
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:47:18pm

re: #183 Single-handed sailor

Exclusive: Kushner didn’t disclose personal email account to Senate intel committee

He’s not only dishonest by default, he’s also really dumb. He appears to be a show pony Trump bought for his daughter to ride.

222
makeitstop  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:47:18pm

re: #206 nines09

Time Bomb.
Little George got the props, but these guys slayed. This was one insanely great band.

[Embedded content]

Little Feat was the Murderer’s Row of rock bands. Every single one of them was a total badass. Barrere, Gradney, Clayton, Tackett and Billy Paine were fucking ninjas.

223
CongoJack  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:47:29pm

re: #209 FormerDirtDart

[Embedded content]

Dear lord.

They call Jared - the Honorable Jared Kushner.

He didn’t earn that title.

Starting to get sick and may tune out for a week. The tax fight is going to make me turn to drinking if we pass this load of garbage (and I believe we will since its not quite as polarizing as healthcare being taken away).

224
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:48:39pm

re: #218 Charles Johnson

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225
CongoJack  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:49:35pm

re: #220 Sir John Barron

Like that one antifa group - “Boston Antifa” on twitter - which turned out to be from Russia (with love?).

I believe Frank was in on that one when it all blew up (sadly to almost no notice on the teevee talking heads).

226
FormerDirtDart  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:49:53pm

re: #205 Charles Johnson

Just found out that usps.com has a pretty cool new feature called “Informed Delivery” that shows images of the snail mail you’re going to receive that day. You can set it to send you an email with the images every morning.

Now we can see which bills we’re going to receive before we receive them, and get upset even earlier in the day.

I’m not particularly happy with the thought of the USPS retaining digital records of the mail I receive.

227
EPR-radar  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:49:56pm

re: #220 Sir John Barron

But, but Erick son of Erick said Price and all Trump cabinet members need to fly special because antifa will kill them all.

Only a conservative could be stupid enough to try to justify Pruitt’s Praetorian Guard at the EPA as being necessary defense against machete-wielding Hottentots.

228
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:49:57pm

Because there’s so many families in this country making 100k or more…

229
Belafon  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:50:04pm

$1000. I get paid 26 times a year, so $38.46 per paycheck. yay.

230
TedStriker  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:51:21pm

re: #224 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

That would require an administration that cared about rooting out corrupt officals, not one that is corrupt, crooked, rotten, and compromised to the core.

231
makeitstop  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:51:34pm

re: #219 Sir John Barron

I wonder how that came about.

Chris Jackson, who converted to Islam and took the name Mahmud Abdul-Rauf.

232
goddamnedfrank  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:51:44pm

re: #211 klys (maker of Silmarils)

We have the $$ set aside for buying another car when a failed smog check or accident or whatever says I should. Or if I start driving enough that the advances in safety features over the past 20 years make sense to have.

But for the moment I will take the cheaper insurance. (I adore driving this car. It’s going to break my heart when it’s gone.)

My Dad’s ‘94 Honda Accord Wagon is in pretty sad shape now. He’s just trying to make it last until the registration expires at the end of the year then he’s planning to go nuts and buy a maxed out 2018 Tesla S P100D. Normally I’d roll my eyes but since he’s had a semi rough year health wise and has tripled his IRA since Jan 2015 by investing heavily in Nvidia I think he deserves to splurge. Plus, I can’t wait to drive the thing.

233
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:51:52pm

re: #229 Belafon

$1000. I get paid 26 times a year, so $38.46 per paycheck. yay.

Plus, I’d be willing to bet he got the $1000 figure by carefully threading a needle between the deductions to be eliminated.

234
lawhawk  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:52:04pm

re: #229 Belafon

$1,000 - on a $100,000 income means you’re seeing a 1% tax cut.

Now, because I fully expect this to not be revenue neutral, there will be service cuts as a result - worse roads, bridges, less money for safety net programs, etc., so the burdens will fall on those who can’t afford them the hardest.

Millionaires, of course will make out like bandits. SS/DD from the trickle down voodoo economics club aka GOP.

235
IngisKahn  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:52:13pm

re: #229 Belafon

$1000. I get paid 26 times a year, so $38.46 per paycheck. yay.

Provided you make $100k

236
EPR-radar  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:53:08pm

re: #217 Renaissance_Man

The rational argument against it is the idea that the money is being taxed twice - once when being earned, and again upon inheritance. While I can agree somewhat with the principle, the reality is that it is meant to help stop establishment of aristocracy, which is well worth it. That said, all efforts to stop establishment of aristocracy and plutocracy in the US appear to have failed.

Another issue is the practicality of actually collecting the estate tax. I can’t imagine the Walton fortune actually got taxed at the supposed legal rate.

Realistically, the problem is allowing such wealth accumulation in the first place. By the time a fortune is so massive that it warps space and slows time, it has become a concentration of political power sufficient to overwhelm any democracy.

237
Sir John Barron  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:54:07pm

re: #231 makeitstop

Chris Jackson, who converted to Islam and took the name Mahmud Abdul-Rauf.

Wow, didn’t remember this.

238
Charles Johnson  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:54:32pm

Some journalists are done with the Trump gang’s constant lying.

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Belafon  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:54:43pm

re: #235 IngisKahn

Provided you make $100k

Yep. But even for those that do, that’s not a whole lot of money per paycheck. For those who make less, who would be getting less, it’ll cover a little more food, but it won’t amount to much. The people who don’t need it are the ones who are going to rake it in.

240
makeitstop  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:55:27pm

re: #237 Sir John Barron

Wow, didn’t remember this.

He took some crap for it, but I shudder to think what would happen if a Muslim playing in the NBA did it these days.

241
Charles Johnson  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:56:28pm
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Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:58:59pm

re: #239 Belafon

Yep. But even for those that do, that’s not a whole lot of money per paycheck. For those who make less, who would be getting less, it’ll cover a little more food, but it won’t amount to much. The people who don’t need it are the ones who are going to rake it in.

But they HAVE TO throw SOMETHING at the non-rich, to delay us building tumbrils…..

243
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:59:02pm

re: #175 Nyet

I declare them sacred in the name of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

The Glass Giant of Palomar
The amazing story of the 200 inch Hale telescope, this was one of my favorite science history books. This went through several editions between 1939 and 1966. The first was written even before the telescope was completed.
Public interest in the project was remarkably high when it reached the hardware stage in the early 30s. America was deeply mired in the Great Depression and the telescope could easily have been vilified as a waste (as anything comparable would be today in this age of idiocrat Luddism). Remarkably, though, it became a symbol of hope instead and its construction transfixed the nation. When the mirror was cast at Corning Glassworks in 1934, Lowell Thomas broadcast live from the site for 16 hours over a national network. When it was shipped across the country on a special train a few months later, thousands of people gathered by the tracks to watch it pass, even though there was little to see.
Another great, and much more recent, book about the Hale is The Perfect Machine: Building the Palomar Telescope by Ronald Florence.

244
KGxvi  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:59:36pm

re: #228 Eclectic Cyborg

Because there’s so many families in this country making 100k or more…

Actually, it’s about 20% of households in the US. At least according to this.

Considering the median income in California is over $61k, and in Silicon Valley is almost $100k, it doesn’t seem that surprising.

245
lawhawk  Sep 28, 2017 • 1:59:56pm
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3 million Puerto Ricans are without power, without access to food or potable water, and they’re touting all of 3,000 meals?

Gen. Honore called this one - this admin is truly stuck on stupid.

246
Unshaken Defiance  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:00:40pm

re: #205 Charles Johnson

Or see what first class postage checks they have managed to take ten days to get from a few states away, and leave a note online that they tried to deliver. But actually never showed up.

247
Sir John Barron  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:01:20pm

This headline made me chuckle:

Paul Ryan tries selling tax reform — without details and with a daft president

248
Charles Johnson  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:01:23pm
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Stanley Sea  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:01:43pm

re: #205 Charles Johnson

Just found out that usps.com has a pretty cool new feature called “Informed Delivery” that shows images of the snail mail you’re going to receive that day. You can set it to send you an email with the images every morning.

Now we can see which bills we’re going to receive before we receive them, and get upset even earlier in the day.

That is so cool. Just signed up.

I’ll never go to my mailbox again.

250
Unshaken Defiance  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:01:48pm

re: #243 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Wonderful observatory to visit. Been there, loved the tour.

251
Sir John Barron  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:02:22pm

re: #244 KGxvi

Actually, it’s about 20% of households in the US. At least according to this.

Considering the median income in California is over $61k, and in Silicon Valley is almost $100k, it doesn’t seem that surprising.

Oh great, all this great tax relief is going to the elite fifth columnists in their leftist coastal enclaves.
////

252
Targetpractice  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:04:37pm

re: #247 Sir John Barron

This headline made me chuckle:

Paul Ryan tries selling tax reform — without details and with a daft president

This isn’t a first for Ryan, he’s spent years trying to sell the country on his “Plan” whose tax policies were big empty boxes that we were promised would be filled in…after the “Plan” had been signed into law.

253
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:05:06pm

re: #244 KGxvi

Actually, it’s about 20% of households in the US. At least according to this.

Considering the median income in California is over $61k, and in Silicon Valley is almost $100k, it doesn’t seem that surprising.

Geography plays a huge role, both in average/median income and in cost of living as well.

I’ve written before about the fuzziness of the upper-middle class boundary and where that gets drawn and I think this goes back to a lot of it. I doubt it’s a conversation we’re going to have though, so I’m mostly not bothering right now.

254
Barefoot Grin  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:05:07pm

Tom Price is a fucking overprivileged dandy who cares not one whit for those he considers beneath him.

255
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:05:07pm

re: #251 Sir John Barron

Oh great, all this great tax relief is going to the elite fifth columnists in their leftist coastal enclaves.
////

Meanwhile, doubling the Standard Deduction will make the mortgage interest deduction less valuable as incentive to buy, which will depress prices, and for those of us who own houses, reduce our wealth.

256
Unshaken Defiance  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:05:09pm

re: #246 Unshaken Defiance

Or see what first class postage checks they have managed to take ten days to get from a few states away, and leave a note online that they tried to deliver. But actually never showed up.

Figures. They truly suck in 90014.

Sorry
Your address is not currently eligible for Informed Delivery. Please check back at a later date.

257
Targetpractice  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:05:53pm

re: #254 Barefoot Grin

Tom Price is a fucking overprivileged dandy who cares not one whit for those he considers beneath him.

So he’s in good company is what you’re saying.

258
KGxvi  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:06:05pm

re: #251 Sir John Barron

Oh great, all this great tax relief is going to the elite fifth columnists in their leftist coastal enclaves.
////

Maybe that’s how we sell opposition to the tax plan in red states… this isn’t going to help you but it’ll help those damncommiepinkosinsanfrancisco!

259
Ace-o-aces  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:06:55pm
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260
Targetpractice  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:07:43pm

re: #259 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

261
ObserverArt  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:08:16pm

re: #134 Birth Control Works

It’s an individual protest that many are choosing to do.

I’m so FREAKING TIRED of the use of labels to identify people.

Individuals who think differently are not to be objectified, put into a category and then disregarded like out-of-date jello.

For those who are definitely the fringe of the fringe, I still use the word ‘WHACKOS’.

Wait. Did you not just label some people to identify them?

(Don’t hit me…)

262
Stanley Sea  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:09:48pm

re: #224 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

[Embedded content]

Plus, Kellyanne was on some flights along with who knows how many staff.

263
Targetpractice  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:09:49pm

There’s tone-deaf and then there’s insulting. #KeepYoMoney is the latter.

264
Belafon  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:11:08pm

re: #259 Ace-o-aces

It would be nice if most people would realize that
1. The Republicans don’t really care if you keep you’re money, they want to keep it.
2. That our goal isn’t to see how much money a few people can end up with, but to take care of as many people as possible. I read that in a book somewhere, kind of a book of books if you will.

265
Barefoot Grin  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:13:12pm

re: #257 Targetpractice

So he’s in good company is what you’re saying.

Ha. Yes, I can see Mnuchin, Price, Pruitt and others all flying separate chartered planes leaving at the same hour from the same airport to go to the same meeting at the same place.

266
I Would Prefer Not To  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:13:15pm

re: #219 Sir John Barron

I wonder how that came about. Anyway, we can expect that rule to be implemented by the NFL at some point, after an appropriate time period has passed so it doesn’t appear directly and immediately the result of Yam’s demands.

I’d still like to know what is so disrespectful about kneeling, as opposed to standing.

I doubt it. This battle is over. Trump and his supporters are too dumb to realize it. mIt might have been over even before Trump opened his stupid mouth. This is one case where the employees (the players) have the last say. Good for them.

267
KGxvi  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:13:35pm

re: #253 klys (maker of Silmarils)

Geography plays a huge role, both in average/median income and in cost of living as well.

I’ve written before about the fuzziness of the upper-middle class boundary and where that gets drawn and I think this goes back to a lot of it. I doubt it’s a conversation we’re going to have though, so I’m mostly not bothering right now.

It’s incredibly complicated, and what passes for upper-middle class in one place can be rich in another, and can be poor somewhere else. Even within a state, in California the median family income in Lake County is about $48k, that’s the lowest in the state. So, if you lived in Lake County and made, say $65k, you’d be doing very well… but that’d be just barely above the median family income in LA County (and about $20k below the median family income in Orange County). I’m really curious as to whether we’ve ever had such sharp differences, geographically, in income. It strikes me as a central issue that we have no real idea how to address.

268
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:13:37pm

re: #69 KGxvi

Is there even any point in having the Jones Act at all today? I mean, I’m sure it’s a boon for my local community, since I live in Long Beach and the port there is one of the busiest in the world, but if international ships could stop there and then move on to San Diego or Seattle, is there a real impact?

American jobs for Americans!

269
goddamnedfrank  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:13:59pm

re: #259 Ace-o-aces

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270
Stanley Sea  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:16:40pm

re: #247 Sir John Barron

This headline made me chuckle:

Paul Ryan tries selling tax reform — without details and with a daft president

Rubin strikes again

271
Stanley Sea  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:18:49pm

re: #256 Unshaken Defiance

Figures. They truly suck in 90014.

My boondock address was eligible!

PSA: if you mail anything, use zip+4, gets there quicker.

I only mail birthday cards & I am always down to the wire.

272
ObserverArt  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:19:47pm

re: #185 petesh

Absolutely. Coming right after losing his health bill, right before losing the Alabaster primary, while catching PR shit for PR (sorry) … Trump flailed around for anything that would enrage his shrinking base.

Mind you, I got criticized elsewhere for saying that, on the grounds that BLM is a major and really important issue, to which my response is that I can hold two complementary ideas in my head at the same time. The key is to flip the conversation back to the origins of Kap’s protest — and to be fair some of the sports stars (Steph Curry, take a bow, along with Pop) have actively tried to do that.

The media (pace Dave Zirin, Charles Pierce and a few others) sucks.

I had the Dan Patrick show on this morning and this has been a hot topic of course.

Dan Patrick ripped on the Sports Illustrated cover because it had no mention or even hint about Kaepernick who got this all rolling.

He also went on about now that everyone is standing, kneeling, holding hands, arm in arm or whatever…the original idea and intention has been lost.

He was wondering if it is now just a fashion and used as an example a guy like Jerry Jones turning his little kneel before the the flag and anthem are displayed and played, then stand for for it when the time came was just Jerry face time.

273
Targetpractice  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:20:53pm

Here’s a proposal for the DNC: If the GOP’s tactic is to sell tax cuts for the rich as “#KeepYoMoney,” then put a bill out there that will give that $1000 that’s being promised to all Americans as a one-time, tax-free check. Not only will that cost way less than the $1.5 trillion (lowest estimate) hole they wish to blow into the budget, but it will be an immediate help to Americans rather than nickeling and diming them for 12 months only to give them back a fraction of that after they’ve filed their taxes.

Watch the GOP immediately dissolve into screaming fits about “giving away taxpayer dollars” and arguing about how little anybody can afford with $1000 in today’s economy.

274
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:20:59pm

re: #148 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Nah. Religion is older than when we started valuing life.

Religion only values that which supports it. Sorta like any tribal mentality. Life becomes valuable when you recognize that tribalism is antithetical to prosperity and communalism reaps greater rewards for all involved, in fact it reaps for those on the sideline, even.

275
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:21:08pm

re: #267 KGxvi

It’s incredibly complicated, and what passes for upper-middle class in one place can be rich in another, and can be poor somewhere else. Even within a state, in California the median family income in Lake County is about $48k, that’s the lowest in the state. So, if you lived in Lake County and made, say $65k, you’d be doing very well… but that’d be just barely above the median family income in LA County (and about $20k below the median family income in Orange County). I’m really curious as to whether we’ve ever had such sharp differences, geographically, in income. It strikes me as a central issue that we have no real idea how to address.

It makes it hard to have these conversations on a national level on both sides of the ideological spectrum because if you start pointing out that $100k doesn’t go very far in some places you get smacked with the “you’re being insensitive to the people who make less than that” bit if not written off completely as an apologist for capitalism/the rich by a non-trivial number of folks on the left.

Like I said, I’m just giving up on having them right now. Even here, really. I don’t think there’s a good way to make my point without somehow fucking up somewhere and irritating someone. I’ve probably already managed that.

I’m tired.

276
ObserverArt  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:21:59pm

re: #189 Targetpractice

Wow, a $1000 in tax relief. You can almost think about making a down-payment on a used car.

////

You can redo your kitchen with used stove and refrigerator replacements.

Or buy some new tires and wheels and have your car feel like it is new for a few weeks.

277
weave  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:22:44pm

Imgur

Ah Reddit, this should get some real love!!

… and the thread is locked!

278
JordanRules  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:24:06pm
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279
Belafon  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:24:15pm

re: #272 ObserverArt

In a sense, Trump did make it about more than the original purpose. He would like to think he made it about him, but he actually made it about the right to stand up for what you believe in. And that’s what last sunday was about.

Now, it’s up to everyone to drive it back to its original meaning. A lot of the football players and others were driving it back to that point. And I think Dan is doing that as well. No matter what happens, we have to keep driving it back to its original point.

280
sagehen  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:25:57pm

re: #201 lawhawk

Only less than 0.1% of taxpayers actually face the estate tax, and yet the GOP has sold this as something everyone needs to worry about. That’s total bullshit. And the lost revenue needs to be made up elsewhere - and the GOP solution is to cut services/safety net (as always).

The other bullshit argument is “this is double-taxation, you’re taxing money that was already subject to income tax throughout the deceased’s life.”

Which is totally not true.

If you pull up a Forbes list of the 100, or 200, or 400 richest Americans… for most of them, 98% of their net worth is unrealized capital gains that have NEVER been taxed. Ever. Gates’ Microsoft stock, Zuckerberg’s Facebook stock, Bloomberg’s stock, Buffett’s stock…. It would only ever be subject to taxation when it’s sold.

281
FormerDirtDart  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:26:30pm

re: #245 lawhawk

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3 million Puerto Ricans are without power, without access to food or potable water, and they’re touting all of 3,000 meals?

Gen. Honore called this one - this admin is truly stuck on stupid.

to further help grasp how low that number is.
3000 equals 250 case of MREs
or 5 pallets with an additional 10 cases

282
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:26:46pm

Afternoon/Evening Lizardim.

283
I Would Prefer Not To  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:28:50pm

The thing to keep in mind about any tax bill is how it will effect the average congressperson. Hint: they love their deductions. Many of them have two homes for obvious reasons. Some are rich, but many are “upper middle class.” Not sure if they are going to love giving up any of their deductions. I think we have a ways to go before this becomes real. The problem is that we have a president who understands the process as well as I understand organic chemistry (not at all).

284
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:30:13pm
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285
I Would Prefer Not To  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:32:15pm

Again Fuck Trump

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286
FormerDirtDart  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:33:14pm

re: #281 FormerDirtDart

to further help grasp how low that number is.
3000 equals 250 case of MREs
or 5 pallets with an additional 10 cases

[Embedded content]

That double stacked row visible is 28 pallets, or 16,128 individual meals

287
sagehen  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:34:08pm

re: #245 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

3 million Puerto Ricans are without power, without access to food or potable water, and they’re touting all of 3,000 meals?

Gen. Honore called this one - this admin is truly stuck on stupid.

Why am I picturing Rick Grimes and Daryl Dixon wandering the Puerto Rican countryside…

288
Targetpractice  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:34:18pm

re: #285 I Would Prefer Not To

Again Fuck Trump

[Embedded content]

“We cannot allow this humanitarian crisis to distract us from giving America’s rich elite another tax cut!”

289
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:34:38pm

re: #285 I Would Prefer Not To

Again Fuck Trump

[Embedded content]

Mrs. Fish blew a gasket when I told her about the subject of this article. No more “Devil’s advocate” from the lovely redhead sitting across the room from me.

290
Colère Tueur de Lapin  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:35:29pm

re: #195 Blind Frog Belly White

Shit, you can’t even buy a good bike for that.

My Trek is 12 years old and it cost $2100, THEN. Shimano Ultegra, too. Not Campy.

291
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:35:58pm

He’s right of course, but only until the Trump gang is voted out of office.

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292
Dave In Austin  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:39:16pm

Hopefully, she’s out in front of it.

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293
wrenchwench  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:39:55pm

re: #284 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

[#RIPHughHefner Sorry to lose another old friend. But what a life he had. This photo from the last time I saw him a few years ago.]

Sure enough, Hugh was wearing his wristband.

Wristband - Paul Simon - 2/6/2016

294
EPR-radar  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:45:45pm

re: #291 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

He’s right of course, but only until the Trump gang is voted out of office.

[Embedded content]

If Hell were real and all its arch-devils were moonlighting in Washington DC as Republican officials, there would be no apparent difference from what we presently have.

295
goddamnedfrank  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:46:37pm

Clever.

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296
Quoth the raven, Covfefe.  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:47:00pm

re: #295 goddamnedfrank

Clever.

[Embedded content]

Dude. That is trippy as hell.

297
Hecuba's daughter  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:47:49pm

re: #217 Renaissance_Man

The rational argument against it is the idea that the money is being taxed twice - once when being earned, and again upon inheritance. While I can agree somewhat with the principle, the reality is that it is meant to help stop establishment of aristocracy, which is well worth it. That said, all efforts to stop establishment of aristocracy and plutocracy in the US appear to have failed.

The double taxation argument is totally dishonest. After all, I pay taxes on my income and then if I hire someone to work on my house, that person must pay taxes on their income, even though I already paid taxes on that income. On the other hand, if I die, that same money is passed on to my heirs without their paying any tax. So, this really discriminates against income earned by working. And don’t start me on FICA taxes. I am ok with smaller estates escaping taxation, but there is no justification for this to apply to large estates.

298
FormerDirtDart  Sep 28, 2017 • 2:50:29pm

re: #295 goddamnedfrank

Clever.

3d optical illusion crosswalk in Ísafjörður, Iceland forces cars to brake for the crossing.

Pretty much only the first time though. Or also when you’re driving drunk

299
William Lewis  Sep 28, 2017 • 3:03:24pm

re: #295 goddamnedfrank

Clever.

[Embedded content]

Living in this tourist trap town, I wish we’d paint all our crosswalks like that - there are far too many from out of state who would run you down if they had the choice in their land yachts.

300
EPR-radar  Sep 28, 2017 • 3:04:28pm

re: #275 klys (maker of Silmarils)

It makes it hard to have these conversations on a national level on both sides of the ideological spectrum because if you start pointing out that $100k doesn’t go very far in some places you get smacked with the “you’re being insensitive to the people who make less than that” bit if not written off completely as an apologist for capitalism/the rich by a non-trivial number of folks on the left.

Like I said, I’m just giving up on having them right now. Even here, really. I don’t think there’s a good way to make my point without somehow fucking up somewhere and irritating someone. I’ve probably already managed that.

I’m tired.

These complications are why I prefer to avoid specific numbers and focus instead on the ruling class — those people who need not work for a living, are set for life, and didn’t get that way by working and saving up for many years to get a decent retirement.

Edited to add: That I have to provide an explicit definition of ruling class is a good example of the peculiar class-blindness of US politics.

301
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 28, 2017 • 3:13:11pm

re: #58 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

there is no tax plan.

(notice that I didn’t shout that out in all caps…)

302
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 28, 2017 • 3:30:32pm

re: #263 Targetpractice

There’s tone-deaf and then there’s insulting. #KeepYoMoney is the latter.

Actually, I think it’s both.

303
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 28, 2017 • 5:11:05pm

re: #205 Charles Johnson

Just found out that usps.com has a pretty cool new feature called “Informed Delivery” that shows images of the snail mail you’re going to receive that day. You can set it to send you an email with the images every morning.

Now we can see which bills we’re going to receive before we receive them, and get upset even earlier in the day.

that would actually be a cool feature for me to save the 1 kilometer roundtrip walking to my mailbox each day if there’s nothing worth walking that far…


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