Charles Darwin’s Sacred Cause

Science • Views: 2,247

As creationists continue trying to connect Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution to every evil thing they can imagine (including but not limited to the Third Reich), here’s a review of two new books showing conclusively that Darwin himself was vehemently opposed to slavery: ‘Darwin’s Sacred Cause’ and ‘Angels and Ages’.

Two arresting new books, timed to coincide with Darwin’s 200th birthday, make the case that his epochal achievement in Victorian England can best be understood in relation to events — involving neither tortoises nor finches — on the other side of the Atlantic. Both books confront the touchy subject of Darwin and race head on; both conclude that Darwin, despite the pernicious spread of “social Darwinism” (the notion, popularized by Herbert Spencer, that human society progresses through the “survival of the fittest”), was no racist.

Adrian Desmond and James Moore published a highly regarded biography of Darwin in 1991. The argument of their new book, “Darwin’s Sacred Cause,” is bluntly stated in its subtitle: “How a Hatred of Slavery Shaped Darwin’s Views on Human Evolution.” They set out to overturn the widespread view that Darwin was a “tough-minded scientist” who unflinchingly followed the trail of empirical research until it led to the stunning and unavoidable theory of evolution. This narrative, they claim, is precisely backward. “Darwin’s starting point,” they write, “was the abolitionist belief in blood kinship, a ‘common descent’ ” of all human beings.

“The Devil under form of Baboon is our grandfather,” Darwin wrote, but his human grandfathers are more central to the circumstantial case that Desmond and Moore assemble. The poet-physician Erasmus Darwin and the industrial potter Josiah Wedgwood were close friends among a circle of mechanical-minded Dissenters from the Anglican Church. Darwin and Wedgwood shared a hatred of the slave trade, contributing money and propaganda — in the form of anti-slavery verse and ceramic curios — to the “sacred cause” of abolition. Wedgwood’s cameo medallion of a chained slave, with the caption “Am I not a Man and a Brother?,” was “a must-have solidarity accessory.”

Read the whole thing…

(Hat tip: Instapundit.)

Jump to bottom

1361 comments
1 brookly red  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:38:22pm

Wow, I really nevet thought this to be that important, but it seems to matter to a lot of people...

2 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:39:26pm

Great article. Very interesting.

3 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:39:36pm

Spin this, stretch!

4 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:40:50pm

It's turtles all the way down!

5 opnion  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:42:19pm

We will soon find out who is more evolved , the Cardinals or the Steelers.
Enjoy the game Lizards!

6 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:42:46pm

re: #5 opnion

We will soon find out who is more evolved , the Cardinals or the Steelers.
Enjoy the game Lizards!

Keith Olbermann is proof that humans evolved from a lower life-form!

7 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:42:58pm

Darwin’s power, according to Desmond and Moore, lay in his marshaling an argument for the unitary origin and hence “brotherhood” of all human beings, and this, they argue, is precisely what Darwin achieved in “The Origin of Species” and later in “The Descent of Man.” The case they make is rich and intricate, involving Darwin’s encounter with race-based phrenology at Edinburgh and a religiously based opposition to slavery at Cambridge. Even Darwin’s courtship of Emma, whom he winningly called the “most interesting specimen in the whole series of vertebrate animals,” is cleverly interwoven with his developing thoughts on “sexual selection,” the aesthetic preference for certain traits, like skin color in humans or plumage in peacocks, that over time leads to those super ficial variations we mistakenly think of as “racial.”

All men are brothers, "race" is superficial, and enslaving one another is wrong...

Pretty clear cut opinions.

8 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:43:43pm

re: #4 gclaghorn

It's turtles all the way down!

It's equal turtles all the way down.

9 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:43:48pm
Darwin’s power, according to Desmond and Moore, lay in his marshaling an argument for the unitary origin and hence “brotherhood” of all human beings, and this, they argue, is precisely what Darwin achieved in “The Origin of Species” and later in “The Descent of Man.”

This was my understanding- even without having read these books or Origins (yet) it seems the only logical conclusion.

Creationists distorting this aspect of Darwin is just another lie atop all their other lies as well as shameless character assassination.

10 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:45:07pm

re: #9 Sharmuta

This was my understanding- even without having read these books or Origins (yet) it seems the only logical conclusion.

Creationists distorting this aspect of Darwin is just another lie atop all their other lies as well as shameless character assassination.

Yeah, but Darwin called me a monkey's uncle!
////

11 brookly red  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:45:34pm

I guess that I should add that growing up in NY, I just assumed that evolution was just an accepted fact. I never imagined that there was so much depth to Darwin. OK lemmie shut up & read.

12 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:47:01pm

Whether Darwin would have approved or not, the godless ideas that he helped to establish are responsible for the decline in the value of human life during the 20th century.

13 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:47:54pm

They're here.

14 CynicalConservative  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:48:08pm

re: #12 RightKlik

Whether Darwin would have approved or not, the godless ideas that he helped to establish are responsible for the decline in the value of human life during the 20th century.

That's quite a stretch there.

15 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:48:19pm
16 CynicalConservative  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:48:21pm

re: #13 Charles

They're here.

Cue creepy music?

17 Fat Jolly Penguin  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:48:24pm

re: #12 RightKlik

Well. It was nice knowing you.

18 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:48:41pm

Darwinian evolution, and slavery... naturally, I immediately think of Conquest of the Planet of the Apes.

19 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:48:55pm

re: #12 RightKlik

Whether Darwin would have approved or not, the godless ideas that he helped to establish are responsible for the decline in the value of human life during the 20th century.

GAZE

20 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:48:57pm

re: #12 RightKlik

Whether Darwin would have approved or not, the godless ideas that he helped to establish are responsible for the decline in the value of human life during the 20th century.

Godless in what way? He was considering being a priest.

21 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:49:32pm
22 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:49:51pm

re: #12 RightKlik

Whether Darwin would have approved or not, the godless ideas that he helped to establish are responsible for the decline in the value of human life during the 20th century.

Yeah, it's really terrible how slavery was invented in the 20th century.

23 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:50:41pm

re: #12 RightKlik

Right, because in the centuries prior to that we were all just one big happy family engaged in an perpetual, international group hug. Rainbows and unicorns for everyone.

24 Bloodnok  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:50:47pm

re: #22 Occasional Reader

Yeah, it's really terrible how slavery was invented in the 20th century.

And war. Don't forget that wars were invented in the 20th century.

25 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:51:01pm

I never said Darwin was godless. I said the ideas that he helped to create were godless.

26 Basho  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:51:14pm

Update to a link I posted in another evolutionish thread...
Stein backs out:
[Link: scienceblogs.com...]

27 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:51:28pm

Now Instapundit is obsessed too!

28 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:52:06pm

re: #13 Charles

They're here.

Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!

29 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:52:19pm

re: #12 RightKlik

Nonsense! Evolution has helped scientists extend and save lives.

30 Basho  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:52:23pm

re: #27 Killgore Trout

Now Instapundit is obsessed too!

The godless ideas are spreading like wildfire. Heeellllp!

31 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:52:28pm

re: #25 RightKlik

What do you mean by "decline in value of human life"? War? Slavery? Gang violence? I would think we could come up with very strong theories on the reasons for all of those things, and none would have to do with Darwin.

32 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:52:41pm

re: #25 RightKlik

I never said Darwin was godless. I said the ideas that he helped to create were godless.

Oh whatever. GAZE.

33 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:52:42pm

re: #25 RightKlik

How do you figure that?

34 Killian Bundy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:52:50pm

re: #25 RightKlik

I never said Darwin was godless. I said the ideas that he helped to create were godless.

/linky?

35 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:52:58pm

re: #25 RightKlik

I never said Darwin was godless. I said the ideas that he helped to create were godless.

He didn't create them. Other people used his writings to create them. How many people have used the words of Jesus to achieve ends He would never approve of?

36 Fat Jolly Penguin  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:52:59pm

re: #25 RightKlik

Ooh. Nuance.

37 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:53:00pm

re: #25 RightKlik

I never said Darwin was godless. I said the ideas that he helped to create were godless.

Do you consider Copernican astronomy to be "godless"? Just curious.

38 ArchangelMichael  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:53:04pm

"Tell the court 'Bright Eyes'. What is the second article of faith?"

39 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:53:32pm

re: #25 RightKlik

I never said Darwin was godless. I said the ideas that he helped to create were godless.

I never said that you said Darwin was godless, and you still haven't answered my question.

40 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:53:42pm

re: #12 RightKlik

Whether Darwin would have approved or not, the godless ideas that he helped to establish are responsible for the decline in the value of human life during the 20th century.

.....a religiously based opposition to slavery....

Just because some evil and corrupt people, misappropriated and misapplied out of context a few of Darwin's ideas, to give they're evil plans a patina of science doesn't mean diddley squat about Darwin or his complete set of ideas.

Science like things are amoral. It depends on who picks it up and uses them to what ends that determines the morality. The same tools that Nazi Germany used to extend and establish power are the same tools used to liberated those under the Nazi heel of oppression.

Darwin's only synthesized an explanation to fit what he observed in the world. That explanation has since been reinforced and refined.

Don't look to Darwin for blame, look to those who twisted Darwin to their own perverted ends.

41 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:54:22pm

re: #9 Sharmuta

I have Orgins right on my bookshelf behind me, from College. I think I'll break it out and read again.

42 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:54:32pm

Ugh! 'RightKlik' updinged one of my posts! I feel so dirty!

43 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:54:33pm

re: #28 Alouette

Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!

I see one of the Fighting Urukhai is here this afternoon. :)

44 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:55:16pm

re: #25 RightKlik

The Catholic Church disagrees.

45 revobob  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:56:01pm

re: #8 jcm

It's equal turtles all the way down.


Exceot for the post at the bottom!

46 Boogberg  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:56:11pm

re: #12 RightKlik

Whether Darwin would have approved or not, the godless ideas that he helped to establish are responsible for the decline in the value of human life during the 20th century.

Bullshit. There's more people alive today than ever before.

47 Basho  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:56:13pm

Bring God back to gravity!
[Link: www.theonion.com...]

48 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:56:16pm
49 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:56:41pm

re: #41 ArmyWife

I have Orgins right on my bookshelf behind me, from College. I think I'll break it out and read again.

DON'T DO IT! Next thing you know, you'll be enslaving people and committing genocide!

50 jorline  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:57:15pm

Sorry for the OT.

Olbermann looks like a friggin pig with his jacket buttoned...Slobermann.

51 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:58:40pm

re: #27 Killgore Trout

Now Instapundit is obsessed too!

Not only that, he's dividing conservatives, and is a secret liberal atheist who hates Christians. It's so boring. Why can't he write about anything else?

52 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:59:01pm

Darwin helped to take us another step away from providence. Right or wrong, that took our culture one step closer to a situational ethic.

53 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:59:33pm
54 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 2:59:47pm

re: #48 buzzsawmonkey

Let's twist again, like we did last summer
Twist again, like we did last year
Tryin' to wrap our minds 'round science is really a bummer
Twist again, twistin' time is here

Round and round and up and down we go again
Ignoring what the fossil records show again

Twist again, like we did last summer
Twist again, twistin' time is here.

--with apologies to Chubby Checker

LMAO! Buzzsawmonkey, you are in fine form today.

55 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:00:16pm

re: #38 ArchangelMichael

"Tell the court 'Bright Eyes'. What is the second article of faith?"

Bright eyes, in fact, demonstrate "irreducible complexity".

/

56 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:00:29pm

re: #51 Charles

Crap! Godless secular darwinism is contagious! RUN!

/ARGH! I caught it from teh interwebs. I R DOOMED!

57 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:00:41pm

re: #52 RightKlik

Darwin helped to take us another step away from providence. Right or wrong, that took our culture one step closer to a situational ethic.

Stop waving your hands and making vague bromides. Name one thing Darwin said or did that directly led to "a situational ethic."

58 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:01:03pm

re: #56 Slumbering Behemoth

Crap! Godless secular darwinism is contagious! RUN!

/ARGH! I caught it from teh interwebs. I R DOOMED!

I can has godless secular darwinism?

59 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:01:08pm

re: #13 Charles

They're here.

I have an idea. Why not see if we can throw of the down dingers' long range sensors.

Spell "creationists" as "cretationists" as in the cretaceous period (which didn't happen if God created Earth 5000 years ago - the fossils and geology are all part of God's big "head fake" to trap more people into non-believer status. Don't want heaven to get too crowded ya know).

I would bet that the Disco Dudes have a series of RSS feeds to "unholy" blogs that fire of emails to the down dingers.

Either that, or they're obsessed.

60 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:01:29pm

re: #52 RightKlik

How do you figure that?

61 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:01:34pm

re: #52 RightKlik

Darwin helped to take us another step away from providence.

Not too difficult. Amtrak's Northeast Corridor service runs right to it.

62 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:01:41pm

Checking out now for dinner and the game. I'll drop back in if I can.

63 Killian Bundy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:02:16pm

re: #52 RightKlik

Darwin helped to take us another step away from providence. Right or wrong, that took our culture one step closer to a situational ethic.

Ang my cat is directly responsible for the advent of thong underwear.

/linky?

64 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:02:21pm

Its not that Darwin would have anticipated the impact of his ideas, but unintended consequences happen.

65 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:02:32pm

re: #52 RightKlik

Darwin helped to take us another step away from providence. Right or wrong, that took our culture one step closer to a situational ethic.

How so?
You would prefer a mythological understanding of world?

Hope you like that cave and roots and berries for dinner.

66 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:02:50pm

The Second Punic War has been called the first genocide. Did the Romans get an advanced copy of On the Origins of Species? I don't think so.

67 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:02:51pm

re: #63 Killian Bundy

Ang my cat is directly responsible for the advent of thong underwear.

/linky?

Actually, your dog is.

68 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:03:28pm

re: #64 RightKlik

Its not that Darwin would have anticipated the impact of his ideas, but unintended consequences happen.

Which, if it were true, would not have been his fault! Geez, you're kind of slow on the know.

69 twincitiesgirl  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:03:41pm

Here's another article I found last week about the same subject.

Hatred of slavery drove Darwin ideas, book says

70 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:03:47pm

re: #59 karmic_inquisitor

Good idea, in theory, but they have that whole "cdesign propentist" thing. I don't think we'd be able to fool them.

71 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:03:53pm
72 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:04:05pm

I have a friend- he's Native American, but don't tell him I called him that because he prefers to be called an Indian or red man. Anyways...

He told me in the course of one of our conversations that if a member of the tribe was sick, or born with defects, they would be left to die in the wilderness because they would burden the tribe, perhaps causing the tribe's demise by caring for them.

We don't have that today because of modern medicine, thanks in large part to evolutionary advances in that field. How on earth are we valuing human life less than tribes of people leaving their own to die? It is flat out false on it's face. Were Stephen Hawking born back then, he would have met with the fate of abandonment in the wilderness. It was science that's saved millions from such a fate.

73 Basho  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:04:26pm

re: #64 RightKlik

Its not that Darwin would have anticipated the impact of his ideas, but unintended consequences happen.

Sucks when reality takes all the fun out of superstition.

74 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:04:31pm

re: #52 RightKlik

The Catholic Church disagrees.

75 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:04:45pm

re: #63 Killian Bundy

Ang my cat is directly responsible for the advent of thong underwear.

/linky?

What kind of crack is that?

76 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:04:48pm

re: #52 RightKlik

Darwin helped to take us another step away from providence. Right or wrong, that took our culture one step closer to a situational ethic.

So did God also lead us another step away from providence?

It was God that created this planet. Did he plant those fossils where he did, and give us the minds to come up with carbon dating such that we'd reasonably conclude that the Earth is much older than 5,000 years?

You got a beef with God?

77 Killian Bundy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:04:58pm

re: #64 RightKlik

Its not that Darwin would have anticipated the impact of his ideas, but unintended consequences happen.

You keep saying that.

/now back it up with a linky

78 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:05:03pm

re: #64 RightKlik

Its not that Darwin would have anticipated the impact of his ideas, but unintended consequences happen.

so we should stifle science because of unintended consequences?

79 Fat Jolly Penguin  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:06:06pm

re: #52 RightKlik

Darwin helped to take us another step away from providence.

So in order to enter Heaven, we have to remain ignorant of how the world works?

80 ArchangelMichael  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:06:19pm

re: #13 Charles

I think that every time you open registration, it should be concurrent with or immediately followed by an evolution/ID thread as a way to weed them out almost immediately.

81 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:06:34pm

re: #64 RightKlik

Its not that Darwin would have anticipated the impact of his ideas, but unintended consequences happen.

Did God not intend for us to use paleontology, physics and geology to determine a much older Earth than 5000 years?

Did God not anticipate such unintended consequences? Does that make him a good or a poor designer?

82 Basho  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:06:39pm

re: #78 nyc redneck

so we should stifle science because of unintended consequences?

Hey, it worked for genetically modified crops...

83 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:08:02pm

God gave us free will. Look at the unintended consequences of that.

84 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:08:28pm

re: #72 Sharmuta

He told me in the course of one of our conversations that if a member of the tribe was sick, or born with defects, they would be left to die in the wilderness

Nonsense. The Americas were a paradise without want, hatred, hunger, disease, or war, before the Evil White Man arrived. Everybody knows that.

85 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:09:02pm

re: #83 Sharmuta

God gave us free will. Look at the unintended consequences of that.

Design defect? Where did I put that warranty registration card?

86 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:09:12pm
87 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:09:29pm

Speaking of unintended consequences, I'm about to go grocery shopping while hungry.

Pray for me.

88 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:09:57pm

re: #83 Sharmuta

God gave us free will. Look at the unintended consequences of that.

God wants a mulligan.

89 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:10:33pm

re: #68 gclaghorn

I'm not blaming Darwin for anything. I'm just saying that big ideas often have intended and unintended consequences, and Darwin's ideas are a good example. As time has passed, Darwin has come to be seen in a different light. But his ideas where such a huge paradigm shift, it took a long time to fully process and digest those ideas. As with anything else of its magnitude, some good things and some bad things happened along the way.

90 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:11:00pm

re: #85 karmic_inquisitor

Design defect? Where did I put that warranty registration card?

Sorry, the original users input the wrong item resulting in erratic operations.
Warranty is void due to user error.

91 Bloodnok  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:11:13pm

re: #89 RightKlik

Things like?

92 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:11:38pm

re: #89 RightKlik

I'm not blaming Darwin for anything.

Exact quote of you:

Whether Darwin would have approved or not, the godless ideas that he helped to establish are responsible for the decline in the value of human life during the 20th century.

Stop backpedaling.

93 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:11:50pm

re: #86 buzzsawmonkey

The anti-evolution fulminations all seem to come down to demanding that we ignore the wonders displayed in front of us and refrain from examining them, in favor of paying all our attention to the man behind the curtain.

Then God either -

1) Did not intend to design us as he did
2) Did not intend to design the natural world as he did
or
3) Wants to lead many of us away from him.

Those are the three existential choices for the DI class creationists.

94 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:12:09pm

re: #86 buzzsawmonkey

in favor of paying all our attention to the man behind the curtain.

You are NOT going to convince me that I'm descended from a FLYING monkey, mister.

95 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:12:17pm
96 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:12:49pm

re: #87 Occasional Reader

Speaking of unintended consequences, I'm about to go grocery shopping while hungry.

Pray for me.

Been there done that. Good luck.

97 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:13:16pm

re: #77 Killian Bundy

Ok...I'll get you one. It might take a while.

98 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:13:19pm
99 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:13:19pm

re: #89 RightKlik

Then is God to blame for giving us free will and inquisitive minds?

I think not, but that's the consequences of your line of thinking.

100 Outrider  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:13:54pm

re: #82 Basho

Hey, it worked for genetically modified crops...

every crop out there, vegetable or flower is genetically modified. Some in a lab, some in the field. Farmers and botanists have been modifying crops for millennia using artificial selection instead of modifying DNA in a lab.

101 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:13:57pm

RightKlik,

You're not doing an Ali G thing here, are you? I don't detect an accent, but you never know.

102 gmsc  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:13:59pm

re: #94 Occasional Reader

You are NOT going to convince me that I'm descended from a FLYING monkey, mister.

Then explain Icarus!
;)

103 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:14:54pm

re: #64 RightKlik

You don't seem to be arguing the accuracy of his discovery. Do you think this was a case of forbidden knowledge?

104 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:15:13pm

re: #92 gclaghorn

It's not backpedaling. If you establish an idea, and someone else does bad things with it, that's not your fault.

105 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:15:36pm

RightKlik, please answer my previous question: Do you consider Copernican heliocentric astronomy to be "godless"? If not, why not? If so, do you think it should be suppressed?

106 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:15:48pm

re: #94 Occasional Reader

You are NOT going to convince me that I'm descended from a FLYING monkey, mister.

The monkey came flying out of a turtle stacks butt.

107 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:16:29pm

I don't even disagree with Darwin. I don't see how any educated person really can disagree with all the evidence that we have now.

108 Killian Bundy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:16:33pm

re: #97 RightKlik

Ok...I'll get you one. It might take a while.

/take your time, make it a good one

109 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:16:42pm

re: #104 RightKlik

It's not backpedaling. If you establish an idea, and someone else does bad things with it, that's not your fault.

It IS backpedaling! You insanely accuse Darwin of every bad thing that happened in the 20th century and then say "I'm not blaming Darwin for anything."

Don't insult your own intelligence.

110 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:16:46pm

re: #104 RightKlik

It's not backpedaling. If you establish an idea, and someone else does bad things with it, that's not your fault.

Then you must embrace some aspect of his idea in an uncorrupted form.

So what part of his theory do you support?

111 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:17:20pm

re: #107 RightKlik

I don't even disagree with Darwin. I don't see how any educated person really can disagree with all the evidence that we have now.

Backpedaling. Definitely backpedaling.

112 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:17:29pm

re: #107 RightKlik

I don't even disagree with Darwin. I don't see how any educated person really can disagree with all the evidence that we have now.

So you think that empirical scientific study is "godless"?

113 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:17:33pm
114 JacksonTn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:17:36pm

Charles ...will I be banned if I ask for a SuperBowl thread ...

/ducking way way down ...

115 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:17:37pm

re: #105 Occasional Reader

No, of course not. I am in favor of all legitimate science. Including evolutionary science.

116 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:17:42pm

Forbidden knowledge! Anyone got an apple?

117 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:18:09pm

re: #107 RightKlik

Then what is the problem? You call his ideas Godless, but the Catholic Church, among others, disagrees.

118 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:18:18pm

Hey, they got Sully at the Superbowl! Cool.

119 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:18:30pm

Chesley Sullenberger getting a standing ovation at the superbowl! Woo-hoo!

120 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:18:31pm
121 brookly red  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:18:47pm

re: #116 Killgore Trout

Forbidden knowledge! Anyone got an apple?

no just a crappy pc from dell :(

122 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:18:55pm

re: #12 RightKlik

Whether Darwin would have approved or not, the godless ideas that he helped to establish are responsible for the decline in the value of human life during the 20th century.

re: #104 RightKlik

It's not backpedaling. If you establish an idea, and someone else does bad things with it, that's not your fault.

First you blame Darwin's ideas.
Now you don't.

123 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:19:18pm

re: #121 brookly red

no just a crappy pc from dell :(

I hear ya!

124 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:19:28pm

re: #116 Killgore Trout

Forbidden knowledge! Anyone got an apple?

Crap- I already ate it.

125 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:19:29pm

based on his observations and studies and the physical evidence available, darwin concluded that life went thru a fascinating evolution over time.
other scientists were going to reach the same conclusion, at some point.
this is what the evidence showed. that life had evolved.
to not present this information because of unintended consequences is ludicrous.

126 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:19:30pm

re: #113 buzzsawmonkey

I don't mind a little backpedaling here, since we don't get the "Cycle of Violence" posts anymore.

I miss fascistic headwind threads myself.

127 revGDright  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:19:51pm

In any given time there are people who will seize upon whatever new idea is out there to try to make their case. In the 19th century, social thinkers co-opted evolution, the hottest new thing, to try to justify their racial theories. Darwin himself didn't contribute to his ideas being misused like that.

128 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:20:25pm

re: #78 nyc redneck

so we should stifle science because of unintended consequences?

I gotta tell ya, even as a layman I am getting sick and tired of the chicken-little crowd sqwaking about the 'unintended consequences' (sometimes closely followed by the sarcastic "What could go wrong").

This type of cowardly thinking is a disease that infects both the left and the right ends of the political spectrum, and attempts to hold back scientific advances with baseless fear-mongering.

129 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:21:06pm

re: #124 Sharmuta

Crap- I already ate it.

Did you ever cut one in half (sagittal cut), and see what really got Adam in trouble?

Try it on a nice Red Delicious sometime.

/

130 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:21:21pm

Here comes the SB flyover...

131 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:21:24pm

I'm so glad we have Amazon.com - makes it so much easier to go ahead and by well recommended book asap!

132 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:21:24pm

re: #116 Killgore Trout

Forbidden knowledge! Anyone got an apple?

I don't know any Forbidden Knowledge, but I do know.... The Forbidden Dance.

(And yes, it's godless.)

And this rendition of The Star-Spangled Banner is god-awful.

133 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:21:46pm

Right Clik appears to be in the Jindal camp.

What I'm curious about is the unintended consequences thing he's pimping. Obviously in any scientific or other discovery there are unintended consequences, it's today's solutions that create tomorrow's problems after all. So rightclik, are you of the opinion that there are things out there that we aren't meant to know? That we should stop discovering the truth about nature? That we should shut down science? Is Darwin to blame, or are dangerous Ideologies like National Socialism and Communism, coupled with better ways to kill people to blame? Are you a neolud, or are you a neocon?

134 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:21:47pm

re: #126 jcm

I miss fascistic headwind threads myself.

A good fascistic headwind helps make for a smooth landing.

135 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:22:05pm

re: #130 gclaghorn

Sleepy B can fly? He never told me!

136 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:22:19pm

re: #132 Occasional Reader

And this rendition of The Star-Spangled Banner is god-awful.

Mmm-hmmm. I love my country, but it doesn't take five minutes to sing a fifteen-second song.

137 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:22:37pm

re: #119 gclaghorn

Chesley Sullenberger getting a standing ovation at the superbowl! Woo-hoo!

It is a lie! A government conspiracy! It would be the first time in history that water didn't freeze at 25°! And if it was flying low, where are the clipped trees? And the video is all spliced together - no continuous shot of the "crash landing!"

While RightKlick looks for links, I will build a chicken wire model, pour water in it and stick it in my freezer and use "engineering inspection" to prove the conspiracy once and for all!

138 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:22:37pm

re: #135 Sharmuta

Sleepy B can fly? He never told me!

LOL!

139 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:22:47pm

re: #128 Slumbering Behemoth

I gotta tell ya, even as a layman I am getting sick and tired of the chicken-little crowd sqwaking about the 'unintended consequences' (sometimes closely followed by the sarcastic "What could go wrong").

This type of cowardly thinking is a disease that infects both the left and the right ends of the political spectrum, and attempts to hold back scientific advances with baseless fear-mongering.

What could possibly go wrong

///

140 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:22:51pm

re: #137 karmic_inquisitor

It is a lie! A government conspiracy! It would be the first time in history that water didn't freeze at 25°! And if it was flying low, where are the clipped trees? And the video is all spliced together - no continuous shot of the "crash landing!"

While RightKlick looks for links, I will build a chicken wire model, pour water in it and stick it in my freezer and use "engineering inspection" to prove the conspiracy once and for all!

Bush arranged the Hudson river landing!

141 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:23:23pm

re: #135 Sharmuta

Sleepy B can fly? He never told me!

Didn't you hear last night on the open reg thread? We're really dragons.

142 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:23:33pm

re: #136 gclaghorn

Mmm-hmmm. I love my country, but it doesn't take five minutes to sing a fifteen-second song.

I blame Aretha Franklin for the godless unintended consequences of her idea.

143 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:23:57pm

re: #117 Sharmuta

The problem is that the world wasn't ready for his ideas. The world wasn't ready for the idea that God wasn't directly involved in the creation of every single species of plant and animal on the face of the earth. That wasn't consistent with their interpretation of the Bible at the time. So to accept Darwin's ideas, people felt that they had to reject the Bible and the God who was supposed to have inspired it. And for a lot of people that's exactly what happened.

144 rancher  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:24:01pm

That was a damn fine national anthem. Hi Lizards, go Cards.

145 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:24:12pm

re: #141 gclaghorn

Didn't you hear last night on the open reg thread? We're really dragons.

Pernese, Chinese, European Romantic ... ?

146 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:24:37pm

re: #142 Occasional Reader

I blame Aretha Franklin for the godless unintended consequences of her idea.

You better show a little RESPECT.

147 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:24:58pm

re: #143 RightKlik

What a cop out.

148 Bloodnok  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:24:59pm

re: #141 gclaghorn

Didn't you hear last night on the open reg thread? We're really dragons.

So you issued a Smaug warning?

149 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:25:00pm

re: #143 RightKlik

Ok that answers one of my questions, you are a luddite. There are things man wasn't meant to know, let's go back to the garden. You might as well join Greenpeace.

150 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:25:04pm

re: #135 Sharmuta

Sleepy B can fly? He never told me!

is that the name of your unicorn?
i wonder why mine hasn't arrived yet.
:(

151 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:25:04pm

re: #145 OldLineTexan

Pernese, Chinese, European Romantic ... ?

Former Western-Mexican Yugoslavakian Eurasian Bahamian Komodo.

152 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:25:12pm

re: #140 gclaghorn

Bush arranged the Hudson river landing!

Had to divert people's eyes from the Chemtrails Operations over their heads!

And don't forget Cheney!

153 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:25:39pm

re: #152 karmic_inquisitor

Had to divert people's eyes from the Chemtrails Operations over their heads!

And don't forget Cheney!

HALLIBURTON!111

/

154 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:25:39pm
155 rancher  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:25:42pm

OMG Maddens here.

156 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:26:07pm

re: #150 nyc redneck

No- my unicorn's name is Snowflake. You know- because he's special.

157 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:26:22pm

Evolved to the point of paying $Billions to watch grown men fight over a pig-skinned inflatable............

/but I'll be watching..........

158 gmsc  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:26:25pm

re: #139 jcm

What could possibly go wrong

[Video]

///

I was amused to learn of the threats against the CERN people who said that if they turned on the collider, and created a black hole that destroys our planet, they should be killed.

Um, if they somehow did manage to create such a black hole, wouldn't that pretty much take care of the killing itself?

159 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:26:26pm

re: #151 gclaghorn

Former Western-Mexican Yugoslavakian Eurasian Bahamian Komodo.

Ick. Komodos are nasty, compared to a nice Pernese dragon. What if we get a Threadfall?

160 Boogberg  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:26:28pm

Hyundai?

Ack Ack!

161 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:26:29pm
162 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:26:57pm

I think he's saying we shouldn't have discovered evolution until we had evolved more. Cognitive dissonance at its finest.

163 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:26:57pm

re: #143 RightKlik

The world wasn't ready for the idea that God wasn't directly involved in the creation of every single species of plant and animal on the face of the earth.

Excuse me?

That is the parable common to just about every culture and religion.

164 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:26:59pm

re: #150 nyc redneck

is that the name of your unicorn?
i wonder why mine hasn't arrived yet.
:(

Mine is named Destiny Hope Rainbow 5th Avenue Skittles ChangeyMcChange III.

165 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:27:16pm

re: #156 Sharmuta

No- my unicorn's name is Snowflake. You know- because he's special.

I noticed that you misspelled spayshul.

166 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:27:26pm

re: #144 rancher

That was a damn fine national anthem.

Yikes. We'll have to agree to disagree. I hate all that yowling business.

David Petraeus!

167 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:27:48pm

re: #143 RightKlik

That's a complete cop out, because there are just as many not ready to deal with it today. Do we stifle learning and scientific inquiry because people aren't ready?

Weak.

168 rancher  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:28:09pm

Wow, Petrius (sp) is there. That is just great.

169 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:28:16pm

re: #143 RightKlik

Please, answer someone's question. Mine, for instance.

170 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:28:31pm

re: #143 RightKlik

The problem is that the world wasn't ready for his ideas. The world wasn't ready for the idea that God wasn't directly involved in the creation of every single species of plant and animal on the face of the earth. That wasn't consistent with their interpretation of the Bible at the time. So to accept Darwin's ideas, people felt that they had to reject the Bible and the God who was supposed to have inspired it. And for a lot of people that's exactly what happened.

And your position changes yet again!

Found that link yet?

171 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:28:33pm

re: #165 OldLineTexan

I noticed that you misspelled spayshul.

I was going to go with that spelling, but I didn't know what the unintended consequences would be.

172 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:28:47pm

re: #168 rancher

Wow, Petrius (sp) is there. That is just great.

The military-football complex!

173 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:28:55pm

re: #143 RightKlik

The problem is that the world wasn't ready for his ideas. The world wasn't ready for the idea that God wasn't directly involved in the creation of every single species of plant and animal on the face of the earth. That wasn't consistent with their interpretation of the Bible at the time. So to accept Darwin's ideas, people felt that they had to reject the Bible and the God who was supposed to have inspired it. And for a lot of people that's exactly what happened.

A fundamental error in your thinking.
God and scripture and science are not in conflict.
One explains the universe as a spiritual guide.
The other explains the universe as it is observed.
The error is trying apply science to a spiritual problem, and trying to apply a spirituality to a evidence based physical question.

174 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:28:56pm

re: #154 buzzsawmonkey

No...the ideas are out there and the world has caught up. Even science is catching up. Physicists are coming closer and closer to the conclusion that the conditions of the universe are too perfect for life to have arisen by coincidence.

175 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:29:05pm
176 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:29:20pm

Patreaus for President.

177 Killian Bundy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:29:30pm

re: #143 RightKlik

The problem is that the world wasn't ready for his ideas. The world wasn't ready for the idea that God wasn't directly involved in the creation of every single species of plant and animal on the face of the earth. That wasn't consistent with their interpretation of the Bible at the time. So to accept Darwin's ideas, people felt that they had to reject the Bible and the God who was supposed to have inspired it. And for a lot of people that's exactly what happened.

Nice theory, cause and effect, now back it up.

/lots of people believe the WTC was brought down by a controlled demolition AND AT LEAST THEY CAN PROVIDE A LINKY OR TWO!

178 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:30:03pm

You're all just too afraid of my Lambada link to ding it either way, aren't you? AREN'T YOU?!

179 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:30:15pm

I feel an irreducibly complex argument forming.....

180 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:30:21pm

re: #177 Killian Bundy

And some really cool pictures of burning chicken wire!

181 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:30:47pm

re: #174 RightKlik

No...the ideas are out there and the world has caught up. Even science is catching up. Physicists are coming closer and closer to the conclusion that the conditions of the universe are too perfect for life to have arisen by coincidence.

Science is catching up with science? Oh, cool.

/

182 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:30:49pm

re: #171 Sharmuta

I was going to go with that spelling, but I didn't know what the unintended consequences would be.

If we go with the universes in a mote of dust theory, I have been making unintended consequences all day. Plus, I stepped on a butterfly. So according to the finest scientific minds writing television screenplays, I have just changed the Future and/or extincted the dinosaurs.

183 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:30:53pm
184 Bloodnok  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:31:13pm

re: #178 Occasional Reader

You're all just too afraid of my Lambada link to ding it either way, aren't you? AREN'T YOU?!

Can't ding.......dancing forbidden dance......damn that link......

185 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:31:14pm

re: #174 RightKlik

Does physics allow for super natural explanations?

186 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:31:36pm

re: #174 RightKlik

Physicists are coming closer and closer to the conclusion that the conditions of the universe are too perfect for life to have arisen by coincidence.

Oh, dear.

187 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:31:44pm

re: #182 OldLineTexan

so it's your fault I washed a red shirt amid my lights making for pink hues all around!

188 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:32:18pm

re: #182 OldLineTexan

If we go with the universes in a mote of dust theory, I have been making unintended consequences all day. Plus, I stepped on a butterfly. So according to the finest scientific minds writing television screenplays, I have just changed the Future and/or extincted the dinosaurs.

Well then when we go to the future and find out you've mucked it up, will have to go back and shoot you before you mucked it up. Right?
;-P

189 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:32:27pm

I've evolved too.
Plumbed the new sink in the remodeled bath this morning.
All new fittings.
Turned the water on.................WATER FUCKING EVERYWHERE!
........but I fixed it!
THUS SPOKE THARATHUSTRA!

190 opilio  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:32:33pm

re: #182 OldLineTexan

If we go with the universes in a mote of dust theory, I have been making unintended consequences all day. Plus, I stepped on a butterfly. So according to the finest scientific minds writing television screenplays, I have just changed the Future and/or extincted the dinosaurs.

Wouldn't that be extinctified?

191 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:32:40pm

re: #179 Sharmuta

I feel an irreducibly complex argument forming.....

Drink a bottle of magnesium citrate. That'll fix it.

192 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:32:45pm
193 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:32:54pm

re: #183 buzzsawmonkey

I'm just wondering why, with that skirt and that underwear on the girl, he's wasting his time dancing.


Because sex is too damn boring after Lambada.

194 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:33:05pm

Go Cardinals!
(Obama likes the Steelers. Do I need a better reason?)

195 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:33:08pm

re: #135 Sharmuta

Sleepy B can fly? He never told me!

For some reason that reminds me of Homer Simpson trying to fly.

"Aw c'mon gravity, you used to be cool" *thump*

196 sngnsgt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:33:13pm

re: #144 rancher

Yep, she nailed it! The perfectly timed fly-over was awesome. Our Military men and women are why we are free to enjoy things like The Super Bowl here in these United States. I hope men and women serving in the armed services are able to sit down to enjoy this.

197 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:33:17pm

re: #64 RightKlik

Its not that Darwin would have anticipated the impact of his ideas, but unintended consequences happen.

So , are you saying that Einstein ought to have kept his big mouth shut? That Jesus and Moses ought to have kept their opinions to themselves? And that we all would have been better off if our parents had not been so darned nosy and involved in our business and stated their - sometimes misunderstood by immature minds - ideas?

198 JacksonTn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:33:26pm

re: #191 OldLineTexan

Drink a bottle of magnesium citrate. That'll fix it.

Then do not have pants on ...cuz you will not have time to pull them down ...yikes ...

199 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:33:42pm

re: #185 Sharmuta

No. Some questions can't be answered by physics. Some questions can never be answered.

200 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:34:03pm

re: #143 RightKlik

The problem is that the world wasn't ready for his ideas. The world wasn't ready for the idea that God wasn't directly involved in the creation of every single species of plant and animal on the face of the earth. That wasn't consistent with their interpretation of the Bible at the time. So to accept Darwin's ideas, people felt that they had to reject the Bible and the God who was supposed to have inspired it. And for a lot of people that's exactly what happened.

well, that is a shame. but to say that science must be put on hold because people can't adapt to the new facts and information revealed by scientific investigation, is not a possibility. life is abt. learning and exploring and going forward. to get answers we have to do more than believe.

201 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:34:13pm

brb

202 Outrider  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:34:18pm

re: #140 gclaghorn

Bush arranged the Hudson river landing!

I thought he was on the grassy knoll? ;-)>

203 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:34:19pm

re: #182 OldLineTexan

If we go with the universes in a mote of dust theory, I have been making unintended consequences all day. Plus, I stepped on a butterfly. So according to the finest scientific minds writing television screenplays, I have just changed the Future and/or extincted the dinosaurs.

You should have remembered what your dad told you on your wedding day. "If you ever travel back in time, don't step on anyhing!..."

204 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:34:22pm

The more DI shills who show up here who are also Jindal supporters, the more I become convinced that he's their man.

205 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:34:28pm

re: #172 Occasional Reader

The military-football complex!


Petraeus has the football? I thooght it always traveled with the President.

206 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:34:53pm

re: #187 ArmyWife

so it's your fault I washed a red shirt amid my lights making for pink hues all around!

Not only that, I hare-lipped every cow in Harris County.

/Don't ask ME, that was my Dad's ultimate I don't care answer ... as in I don't care if it hare-lips every cow in Harris County, you are eating all the okra your mother put on your plate.

207 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:35:08pm

re: #202 Outrider

I thought he was on the grassy knoll? ;-)>

Nope, he was behind the fence.

208 gmsc  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:35:12pm

re: #196 sngnsgt

Yep, she nailed it! The perfectly timed fly-over was awesome. Our Military men and women are why we are free to enjoy things like The Super Bowl here in these United States. I hope men and women serving in the armed services are able to sit down to enjoy this.

The color guard in the opening ceremonies are being treated to a Super Bowl party paid for by the NFL.

There's an added attraction this year for them, too. This year, the military has issued a waiver allowing 2 beers per service member at the Super Bowl party.

209 opilio  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:35:14pm

re: #185 Sharmuta

Does physics allow for super natural explanations?

Physics allows for downright fabulous natural explanations!

210 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:35:24pm

re: #188 jcm

Well then when we go to the future and find out you've mucked it up, will have to go back and shoot you before you mucked it up. Right?
;-P

AND THEN SEE WHAT YOU GET!

211 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:35:29pm

re: #180 ArmyWife

And some really cool pictures of burning chicken wire!

Here they are.

[Link: www.democraticunderground.com...]

Just reposted so that we can all understand the quality of thought and science that DemocraticUnderground is capable of.

212 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:35:50pm

re: #150 nyc redneck

is that the name of your unicorn?
i wonder why mine hasn't arrived yet.
:(

The unicorn is a lie.

213 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:35:54pm

re: #199 RightKlik

Just whip out the Behe already.

214 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:36:06pm

re: #164 gclaghorn

Mine is named Destiny Hope Rainbow 5th Avenue Skittles ChangeyMcChange III.

lol, i love it. it's so creative.
i'm still deciding on a name.
maybe "precious"

215 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:36:10pm

re: #199 RightKlik

No. Some questions can't be answered by physics. Some questions can never be answered.

Fine. What questions can never be answered? Name one, and tell me how you can prove that it will never be answered.

216 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:36:20pm

On a positive note, it doesn't appear that Rightclik is a nirth certer, and he remains mostly rational on his blog.

217 gmsc  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:36:26pm

re: #209 opilio

Physics allows for downright fabulous natural explanations!

I like the post, but I'm not crazy about your avatar.
;)

218 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:36:48pm

re: #214 nyc redneck

lol, i love it. it's so creative.
i'm still deciding on a name.
maybe "precious"

Keith Olbermann recommends "Miss Precious Perfect."

(Running joke.)

219 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:36:54pm

re: #190 opilio

Wouldn't that be extinctified?

George W. Bush (cue music) charges me $5 every time I cojunctify a verb/noun like that!

220 freetoken  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:37:08pm

re: #13 Charles

They're here.

They're here.

221 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:37:16pm

re: #210 OldLineTexan

AND THEN SEE WHAT YOU GET!

We can always go back and fix it........

222 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:37:34pm

re: #213 Sharmuta

Just whip out the Behe already.

I heard about a guy who won the lottery. The odds against him winning were 35 million to one. Therefore, the lottery must have been deliberately created for him to win it.
/

223 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:37:45pm

re: #212 Slumbering Behemoth

The unicorn is a lie.

you have just broken my heart.

224 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:37:58pm

re: #174 RightKlik

No...the ideas are out there and the world has caught up. Even science is catching up. Physicists are coming closer and closer to the conclusion that the conditions of the universe are too perfect for life to have arisen by coincidence.

Certain physicists, or all of them?
Links?

225 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:38:11pm

re: #219 OldLineTexan

George W. Bush (cue music) charges me $5 every time I cojunctify a verb/noun like that!

It's a perfectly cromulent word.

226 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:38:37pm

HOME RUN! Or whatever it's called.

227 rancher  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:38:40pm

re: #176 karmic_inquisitor

Patreaus for President.

Doesn't always work. Powell wouldn't get my vote despite a great performance in GWI. Unless there was a worst Dem choice, I did vote for McCain, another American hero who would have sucked as President.

228 gmsc  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:38:52pm

re: #174 RightKlik

No...the ideas are out there and the world has caught up. Even science is catching up. Physicists are coming closer and closer to the conclusion that the conditions of the universe are too perfect for life to have arisen by coincidence.

Oh, that's right. Creationists and IDers don't believe that such a thing as feedback exists.

229 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:39:08pm

re: #226 Occasional Reader

HOME RUN! Or whatever it's called.

I think it's called a slam dunk.

230 sngnsgt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:39:22pm

re: #208 gmsc

I'd love to pay for the 1st one anyway.

231 Outrider  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:40:10pm

great Bud commercial. ;-)>

232 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:40:34pm

What kind of an asshole would ding down a thread about a man who opposed slavery?

233 The Shadow Do  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:40:50pm

Cards win the coin toss and elect to give the ball to Pitt, what could go wrong?

234 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:40:56pm

Okay, they just had a Bud Light commercial where a guy gets thrown out a window.

So, presumably we'll get lots of punditry exegesis tomorrow about how this shows how much more carelessly violent American culture has become under Obama, right?

Right?

235 rancher  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:41:23pm

First great Superbowl commercial, "We could get rid of Bud Light at every meeting".

236 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:41:40pm

Ear wax- the bane of Darwinian thought! ///////////

237 Outrider  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:41:41pm

re: #232 MandyManners

What kind of an asshole would ding down a thread about a man who opposed slavery?

can't recall ever seeing that nic in any threads?

238 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:41:42pm
239 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:41:45pm

re: #231 Outrider

great Bud commercial. ;-)>

Yeak, it's a shame about the beer.

Sharm, if magnesium citrate is too scary, try some Budweiser.

Let's just say the last syllable is pronounced "wiper".

It will remove any irreducible arguments.

240 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:42:12pm

I just remembered:

Whoever was looking for an apple at the beginning of the thread, please see my avatar.

241 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:42:13pm

re: #232 MandyManners

What kind of an asshole would ding down a thread about a man who opposed slavery?

It depends on how many kinds of assholes have evolved ...

242 foxtrotter  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:42:14pm

re: #211 karmic_inquisitor

Ah, the DU September 11th sub-board. Once in awhile, when I feel the urge to torture myself, I read that sub-board. It keeps me up-to-date on all the wacky and repulsive 9/11 conspiracies. My favorite is the idea that the planes were actually holograms. It might be funny if it weren't so disgusting and insulting and delusional. I read the thread you just posted when it was first activated. That guy is crazy crazy crazy.

243 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:42:23pm

The point is that for every "bad" unintended association or consequence you can throw out there for science, I can show you ten, a hundred, or billions, of good ones.

244 gmsc  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:42:44pm

re: #238 buzzsawmonkey

Are people fascinated by Behe called Behemoths?

No, Behars.

245 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:42:45pm

re: #227 rancher

Doesn't always work. Powell wouldn't get my vote despite a great performance in GWI. Unless there was a worst Dem choice, I did vote for McCain, another American hero who would have sucked as President.

Patraeus is a very smart and capable guy. Very shrewd politically too.

I agree - you don't just nominate a hero. Perot's choice of James Stockdale (a great man) demonstrated that heroes aren't always good politicians. But sometimes you have to be a good politician to be a hero - like Eisenhower, who was a mediocre strategist but got a gaggle of allies and egos to work the same plan against a unified command under Hitler.

246 sngnsgt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:43:15pm

re: #233 The Shadow Do

That was their first mistake.

247 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:43:18pm

re: #238 buzzsawmonkey

Are people fascinated by Behe called Behemoths?

You'll upset Slumbering with that. ;)

248 freetoken  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:43:30pm

re: #89 RightKlik

I'm not blaming Darwin for anything. I'm just saying that big ideas often have intended and unintended consequences, and Darwin's ideas are a good example.

I agree that big ideas have unintended consequences.

Where you go wrong is attributing some of the bad things that happened after Darwin to him.

Name one supposed human ill that you believe Darwin caused that was not already existing in Darwin's time or earlier.

249 gmsc  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:43:48pm

re: #226 Occasional Reader

HOME RUN! Or whatever it's called.

The score is now 3-Love.

250 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:44:05pm
251 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:44:19pm

re: #237 Outrider

can't recall ever seeing that nic in any threads?

The only time I've seen it is dinging down a similar thread.

252 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:44:28pm

re: #234 Occasional Reader

Okay, they just had a Bud Light commercial where a guy gets thrown out a window.

So, presumably we'll get lots of punditry exegesis tomorrow about how this shows how much more carelessly violent American culture has become under Obama, right?

Right?

Sheesh, I'm working on it, I'm working on it ... defenestration of Pilsner ... windows 78% safer under Bush ... evidence of anti-Christian bias given that it's Sunday ... 5 am gonna work for you?

253 sngnsgt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:44:42pm

re: #249 gmsc

The score is now 3-Love.

He kicks, he scores!

254 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:44:46pm

Do you get the sense that Rightclik is out there feverishly seeking a link to back up his assertions that we can't immediately tie back to Johson, Behe, or DI quote mining?

255 rancher  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:45:03pm

re: #196 sngnsgt

Troy realized he was finally in the big game during the flyover.

256 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:45:14pm

re: #241 OldLineTexan

It depends on how many kinds of assholes have evolved ...

HA!

257 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:45:37pm

re: #238 buzzsawmonkey

Are people fascinated by Behe called Behemoths?

I'm fascinated by Sharm ordering some dude to whip out his behe ... I guess that's what the kids are calling it these days ...

258 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:45:51pm

re: #254 Thanos

Do you get the sense that Rightclik is out there feverishly seeking a link to back up his assertions that we can't immediately tie back to Johson, Behe, or DI quote mining?

We're even giving him material. Sharm recommended Behe.

259 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:45:53pm

re: #238 buzzsawmonkey

Are people fascinated by Behe called Behemoths?

And at their get-togethers, they quote Shakespeare:

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; Behe ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition

260 opilio  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:46:20pm

re: #217 gmsc

I like the post, but I'm not crazy about your avatar.
;)

There can be but one pi, but isn't it fascinating that such a simple fraction differs from pi by less than one part in 3½ million?

261 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:46:23pm

re: #249 gmsc

The score is now 3-Love.

Was the wicket sticky?

262 Boogberg  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:46:25pm

The Doritos ad was funny. :D

263 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:46:29pm

re: #199 RightKlik

Like: "Can God create a burrito so large that even He can't eat it"?

I don't want any of those egghead scienticians to try and answer that one. Think of the 'unintended consequences'.

264 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:46:33pm
265 Empire1  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:46:58pm

I need an open thread to do some fantasy story research on lizardoids!

266 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:47:04pm

re: #232 MandyManners

What kind of an asshole would ding down a thread about a man who opposed slavery?

Only a person who thinks evolution is the height of all the worlds ills, Mandy.

267 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:47:26pm

re: #12 RightKlik

Whether Darwin would have approved or not, the godless ideas that he helped to establish are responsible for the decline in the value of human life during the 20th century.

Umm...far less people are dying in conflicts around the globe now than at any point in human history. That certainly sounds like a reverence for life to me.

268 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:47:41pm

re: #260 opilio

There can be but one pi, but isn't it fascinating that such a simple fraction differs from pi by less than one part in 3½ million?

U r sew secksee wen u tahlk teh maf finggee.

269 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:48:07pm

OK - My wife is pissed off.

I made a model plane out of chicken wire, poured water in it and threw it in the freezer.

Well it leaked all over the place and water dripped all over the floors.

But SCIENCE HAS ADVANCED. The remaining film of water froze!

I even put my foot on it afterward and the water was still frozen!

270 rancher  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:48:20pm

re: #245 karmic_inquisitor

like Eisenhower, who was a mediocre strategist but got a gaggle of allies and egos to work the same plan against a unified command under Hitler.


Like GWB.

271 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:48:56pm

re: #269 karmic_inquisitor

OK - My wife is pissed off.

I made a model plane out of chicken wire, poured water in it and threw it in the freezer.

Well it leaked all over the place and water dripped all over the floors.

But SCIENCE HAS ADVANCED. The remaining film of water froze!

I even put my foot on it afterward and the water was still frozen!

Your experiment sounds awfully godless to me.

272 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:49:42pm

Okay, gotta go scavenge for food.

273 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:49:43pm

re: #238 buzzsawmonkey

Are people fascinated by Behe called Behemoths?

Watch it buddy.

274 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:50:19pm

re: #271 Occasional Reader

Your experiment sounds awfully godless to me.

It certainly had unintended consequences. Ask my pissed off wife!

275 Bloodnok  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:50:32pm

re: #271 Occasional Reader

Your experiment sounds awfully godless to me.

It was too soon. We will be ready for it..........someday.

276 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:50:41pm

OT.
This is disgusting.

The hatred of GWB seems to have no end.

277 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:50:42pm
278 gmsc  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:50:42pm

re: #260 opilio

There can be but one pi, but isn't it fascinating that such a simple fraction differs from pi by less than one part in 3½ million?

True, but when you have pi memorized to 400 decimal places, it's kind of an early letdown.
;)

279 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:51:02pm

re: #277 buzzsawmonkey

I told you! ;)

280 Omega3  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:51:06pm

I just concluded a carbon dating test on an Arizona Cardinals Super Bowl Ring. Guess how old the world is?

281 Empire1  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:51:18pm

re: #269 karmic_inquisitor

OK - My wife is pissed off.

I made a model plane out of chicken wire, poured water in it and threw it in the freezer.

Well it leaked all over the place and water dripped all over the floors.

But SCIENCE HAS ADVANCED. The remaining film of water froze!

I even put my foot on it afterward and the water was still frozen!

Next time use Ultracoat. Much prettier and neater.

282 jorline  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:51:35pm

ID thread...anyone seen the new hatchling GoodMuslim yet?

283 gmsc  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:51:50pm

re: #260 opilio

There can be but one pi, but isn't it fascinating that such a simple fraction differs from pi by less than one part in 3½ million?

284 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:51:57pm

The hall monitor is here. What's up?

285 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:52:02pm

re: #25 RightKlik

I never said Darwin was godless. I said the ideas that he helped to create were godless.

Empirical science is methodologically naturalistic; it cannoty assume metaphysical causes for metaphysical effects, or else every empirical inquiry would be strangled in its cradle by the contention that God did it, His ways are beyond human understanding, so there's no reason to even try to figure out the causes for observed phenomena for ourselves. But methodological naturalism is no metaphysical atheism; empirical science assumes neither God's presence nor God's absence - the question is simply not addressed, as it falls outside the empirical science purview.

286 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:52:59pm

re: #249 gmsc

The score is now 3-Love.

Who is playing tennis?

287 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:53:08pm

Anyone see that Conan O'Brien commercial? LOL.

288 Outrider  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:53:24pm

Year One? Looks like a funny movie.

289 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:53:27pm
290 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:54:37pm

re: #276 reine.de.tout

OT.
This is disgusting.

The hatred of GWB seems to have no end.

If I did one of Obama it would be a hate crime.......

291 Timbre  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:54:37pm

Anyone notice bad sound on the NBC announcers at the SB? Very noticeable to me.

292 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:54:54pm

re: #232 MandyManners

What kind of an asshole would ding down a thread about a man who opposed slavery?

Exactly. An "unintended consequence" of abolishing slavery was Affirmative Action, I guess that means slavery ought never have been abolished.

293 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:55:07pm

re: #291 Timbre

Anyone notice bad sound on the NBC announcers at the SB? Very noticeable to me.

The volume keeps going up and down for me.

294 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:55:20pm

re: #289 buzzsawmonkey

Chuck Barris would sue

295 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:55:25pm

re: #289 buzzsawmonkey

I can't wait until they put The Carbon Dating Game on daytime TV.

"Bachelor #1--what do you do to reduce your carbon footprint?"

"Bachelor #2--how do you annoy the neighbors with your insufferable "save the earth" attitude?"

"Bachelor #3--what new forms of recycling have you invented?"

How about a new check box on your federal tax return...

Check this box if you would like to contribute 3 dollars too reduce your countries global carbon footprint.

296 Omega3  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:55:29pm

re: #289 buzzsawmonkey

I can't wait until they put The Carbon Dating Game on daytime TV.

"Bachelor #1--what do you do to reduce your carbon footprint?"

"Bachelor #2--how do you annoy the neighbors with your insufferable "save the earth" attitude?"

"Bachelor #3--what new forms of recycling have you invented?"

Do you recycle your own poo?

Can your compost power your tricycle?

Do you run water while shaving?

297 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:55:32pm
298 foxtrotter  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:55:55pm

re: #269 karmic_inquisitor

OK - My wife is pissed off.

I made a model plane out of chicken wire, poured water in it and threw it in the freezer.

Well it leaked all over the place and water dripped all over the floors.

But SCIENCE HAS ADVANCED. The remaining film of water froze!

I even put my foot on it afterward and the water was still frozen!

Well your experiment proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that the Twin Towers were definitely not (and could not have been) brought down by an ice storm. Take that OCTers!

/just as logical as anything else they come up with at DU

299 brookly red  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:56:16pm

re: #284 Walter L. Newton

The hall monitor is here. What's up?

kinda quite hommie, just football and some mob violence...

300 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:56:22pm

re: #271 Occasional Reader

Your experiment sounds awfully godless to me.

Or maybe just god-awful. :)

301 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:56:25pm

re: #277 buzzsawmonkey

I was thinking of moths attracted to a flame. No disrespect intended.

Oh, I know. I'm just poking fun and pretending to be indignant. No harm, no foul.

302 Outrider  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:56:27pm

re: #295 Walter L. Newton

How about a new check box on your federal tax return...

Check this box if you would like to contribute 3 dollars too reduce your countries global carbon footprint.

can we contribute $3 to send algore to Sweden by Greyhound bus? ;-)>

303 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:56:47pm

re: #52 RightKlik

Darwin helped to take us another step away from providence. Right or wrong, that took our culture one step closer to a situational ethic.

Let's talk ethics, then:

[Link: pinker.wjh.harvard.edu...]

304 Outrider  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:57:22pm

re: #296 Omega3

Do you recycle your own poo?

Can your compost power your tricycle?

Do you run water while shaving?

Ha, Got that one beat. An easy solution of just don't shave.

305 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:58:09pm

re: #282 jorline

Who?

306 Steve Rogers  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:59:39pm

On October 4, 1957, the Soviets launched Sputnik. That spurred a nationwide push in the United States to make science a high priority among school children of all ages. A dozen years later, the U.S. decidedly won the space race – hands down. And science education played a pivotal part in that race. This is something conservative republicans can point to with pride about the U.S.

But now, 4 decades into the Space Age, a new generation of conservative republicans are urging the dumbing down of U.S. school children by demanding that the myths of Bronze Age goat herders be taught in science classes as if those legends were real science. And the more they push for this thinly veiled religious dogma/pseudo-scientific nonsense, the more American students suffer after graduating, as Chinese and Indian students learn real biology.

When conservative republicans finally realize that they need to concentrate on fiscal responsibility, strong national defense, smaller federal government and standing up for the Constitution instead of trying to legislate one specific religion's morality, they will start winning elections again, and the U.S. will be better off for it. Just look at the clubbing republicans took in the last 2 elections. And speaking of morality, conservative republicans need to realize that a religious person can be highly immoral, and a non-religious person can be very moral. Leave morality to the individual.

If conservative republicans succeed with this hugely misguided and highly unintelligent design of theirs, the medicines and bio-tech jobs of tomorrow will be made by nations other than the United States, while American biology students will be busy pumping gas and talking about the glory days of the United States...a country that will be a third world nation thanks to one very stupid push by the soon-to-be equally decimated Republican Party who demanded that we take a giant step backwards 3,000 years instead of forward into the future.

307 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:59:47pm

re: #304 Outrider

Ha, Got that one beat. An easy solution of just don't shave.

It's gonna all backfire on the moonbats. Moonbat woman will go crazy trying to figure out how there males can say all metrosexual and at the same time, cut the waste created by shaving. When it gets to looking like a forest down their, they'll freak.

308 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:59:50pm

re: #290 jcm

Will this apply to GWB urinals, too?

309 zombie  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 3:59:57pm

Anyone who knows thing one about Darwin knows that he was a vitriolic anti-slavery advocate, and a campaigner against racism. In his first book The Voyage of the Beagle, he describes how the Portuguese treated the slaves in Brazil, and he was shocked and mortified at what he saw, and vowed to try to bring an end to slavery.

But an interesting detail almost no one knows:

When Darwin was just 18 years old, he went to college in Scotland at Edinburgh, and in all of Scotland there was one black man, living and working at the University. Darwin made very few friends, but one of his closest friends at that point in his life was -- that one black man in the whole country.

Now, that took bravery, considering the racial climate of the era. And shows his convictions were deep.

310 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:00:39pm

re: #307 Walter L. Newton

It's gonna all backfire on the moonbats. Moonbat woman will go crazy trying to figure out how there males can say all metrosexual and at the same time, cut the waste created by shaving. When it gets to looking like a forest down their, they'll freak.

Let's try again with corrections...

It's gonna all backfire on the moonbats. Moonbat woman will go crazy trying to figure out how their males can stay all metrosexual and at the same time, cut the waste created by shaving. When it gets to looking like a forest down their, they'll freak.

311 pink freud  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:00:46pm

re: #307 Walter L. Newton

It's gonna all backfire on the moonbats. Moonbat woman will go crazy trying to figure out how there males can say all metrosexual and at the same time, cut the waste created by shaving. When it gets to looking like a forest down their, they'll freak.

Down their what?

312 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:01:10pm

re: #266 Sharmuta

Only a person who thinks evolution is the height of all the worlds ills, Mandy.

And who doesn't care if Islam winds up being taught in science classes in public schools.

313 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:01:11pm

re: #306 Steve Rogers

Well said.

314 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:01:13pm

re: #306 Steve Rogers

Very well said, this is all about the future for our children and grandchildren.

315 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:01:46pm

re: #306 Steve Rogers

conservative republicans?

That's a might broad brush you are using.

316 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:01:47pm

re: #307 Walter L. Newton

Forest down there? Down where, Walter?

317 Bloodnok  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:02:18pm

re: #306 Steve Rogers

Excellent post.

318 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:02:21pm

re: #269 karmic_inquisitor

OK - My wife is pissed off.

I made a model plane out of chicken wire, poured water in it and threw it in the freezer.

Well it leaked all over the place and water dripped all over the floors.

But SCIENCE HAS ADVANCED. The remaining film of water froze!

I even put my foot on it afterward and the water was still frozen!

Sleeping on the couch tonight?

319 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:02:34pm

re: #315 jcm

conservative republicans?

That's a might broad brush you are using.

Narrow the focus and you'll have something.

320 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:02:49pm

re: #316 ArmyWife

Forest down there? Down where, Walter?

gah!
Why are you asking?

321 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:02:50pm

re: #311 pink freud

Down their what?

Exactly!

I think it's called a behe now ... but I am hopelessly un-hep.

322 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:02:50pm

re: #316 ArmyWife

Forest down there? Down where, Walter?

Hehehehehehehehehehe...

(yea, I know, my spelling stunk on that post)

323 jorline  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:03:08pm
324 Omega3  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:03:15pm

re: #304 Outrider


Ha, Got that one beat. An easy solution of just don't shave.

I really, truly just saw a bearded woman working the checkout at Wal-Mart. I felt quite conceited and wasteful with my clean-shaven baby face.

There are people out there that need my help. You know there are people starving hairy in Africa!

325 zombie  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:03:34pm

Darwin and John Edmonstone

Darwin was an avowed abolitionist and came from a family of committed anti-slavery campaigners. These beliefs were affirmed by his relationship with Edmonstone, who he later described in his book, The Descent of Man, as a “full-blooded negro” and an “intimate friend”
326 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:03:45pm

re: #306 Steve Rogers

I am a conservative Republican and I don't believe creationism has a place in science class. What now?

327 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:04:14pm

re: #292 Daisy

Exactly. An "unintended consequence" of abolishing slavery was Affirmative Action, I guess that means slavery ought never have been abolished.

Or, maybe it should have never been established or allowed to thrive here.

328 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:04:37pm

re: #320 reine.de.tout

Because it was funny! And I though lib womyn were anti-shaving anyway.

/can you imagine? eeekkk

329 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:04:59pm

re: #328 ArmyWife

Because it was funny! And I though lib womyn were anti-shaving anyway.

/can you imagine? eeekkk

Sleek!

330 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:05:10pm

re: #328 ArmyWife

Because it was funny! And I though lib womyn were anti-shaving anyway.

/can you imagine? eeekkk

Well, I don't want to image . . . er, imagine.

331 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:05:15pm

re: #306 Steve Rogers

I regret that I have but one upding to give.

332 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:05:41pm

re: #306 Steve Rogers

NOT ALL CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS SUPPORT TRASHING SCIENCE EDUCATION.

333 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:05:43pm

re: #326 ArmyWife

I am a conservative Republican and I don't believe creationism has a place in science class. What now?

The unintended consequences of your actions are destroying bronze goat herds ... I guess they are drowning along with the polar bears.

334 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:05:56pm

re: #330 reine.de.tout

Well, I don't want to image . . . er, imagine.

Hi, just got here. What are we talking about?
/

335 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:06:19pm

re: #333 OldLineTexan

Well damn. Tequila shot, anyone?

336 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:06:45pm

re: #331 Slumbering Behemoth

I regret that I have but one upding to give.

Let's ask Charles for one "Chicago upding" per day per Lizard ...

337 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:07:13pm
338 abolitionist  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:07:21pm

On the 1st voyage of the Beagle, a group of Fuegian natives stole the boat of a landing party. Subsequently, a few natives were taken/abducted, in a strategy for securing its return. Didn't work, so these natives were taken to England, with the intent of civilizing and educating them, potentially to be useful as translators and intermediaries later on, working with missionaries.

On the Beagle's 2nd voyage, these natives were being returned home, except for one who had died. Darwin joined this voyage, in part to be a "peer" companion for the captain.
Robert FitzRoy (Wikipedia)

The two got on well together, but FitzRoy's outbursts of violent temper which had gained him the nickname "Hot Coffee"[3] led to occasional quarrels — "some bordering on insanity," Darwin later recalled — during the survey voyage which stretched over five years (though Darwin spent more than three years of this time exploring on land). On a memorable occasion in March 1831 at Bahia, Brazil, Darwin was horrified at tales of the treatment of slaves, but FitzRoy, while not endorsing mistreatment, assumed that well treated slaves would be happier than having to live in poverty, and recounted how an estancia owner had asked his slaves if they wished to be free, which they had answered in the negative. Darwin incautiously asked FitzRoy if he thought the answers given by slaves in the presence of their master were worth anything, at which the captain completely lost his temper and stormed out, saying that as Darwin doubted his word they could not live together any longer, effectively banishing Darwin from his table. FitzRoy's temper cooled and he sent a handsome apology before nightfall with the request that Darwin "continue to live with him", so they avoided that subject from then on. However, none of the quarrels were over religious or doctrinal issues – such disagreements came after the voyage.[1]
339 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:07:24pm

re: #334 Walter L. Newton

Hi, just got here. What are we talking about?
/

Oh, Hi, Walter!
(everybody else . . . shh, Walter's here).

340 Steve Rogers  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:07:48pm

re: #315 jcm

conservative republicans?

That's a might broad brush you are using.

It's not a broad brush. It's a generality, because it is generally true.

I know there are some conservative republicans who realize evolution is a fact, but the current push trying to make people believe that evolution is "just a theory" (as if that meant it were nothing more than a hunch), is generally pushed for by conservative republicans. And it is hurting their party...and U.S. students.

341 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:07:50pm

Who's playing today, the Philadelphia Seagulls or something?

342 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:07:53pm

re: #335 ArmyWife

Well damn. Tequila shot, anyone?

Now just what is that going to do for all the poor bronze goats?

/Hell yes, keep 'em coming as long as you can see my eyes ...

343 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:07:55pm

re: #323 jorline

I am suspicious of that character, thus my link.

I suspect it may be an acolyte from a stalker blog. If I am wrong, I will gladly eat crow.

344 USBeast  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:07:56pm

re: #334 Walter L. Newton

Hi, just got here. What are we talking about?
/

I just got here too. What do you want to talk about?

345 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:08:28pm

re: #344 USBeast

I just got here too. What do you want to talk about?

Darwin.

346 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:08:34pm

re: #326 ArmyWife

I am a conservative Republican and I don't believe creationism has a place in science class. What now?

Register as a Rastafarian. Or maybe a Philatelist.

347 Outrider  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:09:08pm

re: #307 Walter L. Newton

It's gonna all backfire on the moonbats. Moonbat woman will go crazy trying to figure out how there males can say all metrosexual and at the same time, cut the waste created by shaving. When it gets to looking like a forest down their, they'll freak.

hmmm hadn't quite meant for the ladies to quit shaving. I quit shaving years ago. Must have saved hundreds of dollars by now. Not to mention time and water saved. ;-)>

348 USBeast  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:09:16pm

re: #345 Walter L. Newton

Darwin.

Samantha's husband?

349 swamprat  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:09:37pm

No matter where you stand, down-dinging a thread that shows Darwin to be a humane man is just asinine.

350 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:09:42pm

re: #340 Steve Rogers

It's not a broad brush. It's a generality, because it is generally true.

I know there are some conservative republicans who realize evolution is a fact, but the current push trying to make people believe that evolution is "just a theory" (as if that meant it were nothing more than a hunch), is generally pushed for by conservative republicans. And it is hurting their party...and U.S. students.

I don't consider them conservatives. A conservative would stand up for the Constitution and defend it from ID. They may be republicans, but limited government conservatives they're not.

351 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:09:44pm

re: #269 karmic_inquisitor

OK - My wife is pissed off.

I made a model plane out of chicken wire, poured water in it and threw it in the freezer.

Well it leaked all over the place and water dripped all over the floors.

But SCIENCE HAS ADVANCED. The remaining film of water froze!

I even put my foot on it afterward and the water was still frozen!

karmic I, sounds like you have enough female trouble right now w/out me adding to it. That notwithstanding - what on earth were you doing putting a watery chicken wire airplane model in the freezer?!

352 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:09:53pm

re: #340 Steve Rogers

That's insulting. Can you back it up with some verifiable stats?

353 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:10:00pm

re: #346 Jim in Virginia

Register as a Rastafarian. Or maybe a Philatelist.

Register as a stamp collector? I didn't know I had too.

354 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:10:01pm

re: #346 Jim in Virginia

Register as a Rastafarian. Or maybe a Philatelist.

Or even a numismatic.

355 BryanS  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:10:27pm

re: #89 RightKlik

I'm not blaming Darwin for anything. I'm just saying that big ideas often have intended and unintended consequences, and Darwin's ideas are a good example. As time has passed, Darwin has come to be seen in a different light. But his ideas where such a huge paradigm shift, it took a long time to fully process and digest those ideas. As with anything else of its magnitude, some good things and some bad things happened along the way.

Darwin's ideas had unintended consequences like Copernicus did--both ideas resulted in violent rejection from religious dogmatic extremists because they could not fit the ideas into their religious world view.

356 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:10:32pm

re: #342 OldLineTexan

It's the age old answer for everything. Drowning polar bears? Tequila. People who think all conservative Republicans are dumb? Tequila. Unshaven libs? Tequila.

When I'm right, I'm right (and conservative to boot)

357 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:10:34pm

re: #348 USBeast

Samantha's husband?

No Peter Darwin

[Link: www.umm.edu...]

358 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:10:55pm

re: #354 reine.de.tout

Or even a numismatic.

A what?

359 gmsc  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:11:29pm

re: #346 Jim in Virginia

Register as a Rastafarian. Or maybe a Philatelist.

That last idea should be stamped out.

360 Steve Rogers  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:11:36pm

re: #352 OldLineTexan

That's insulting. Can you back it up with some verifiable stats?

Majority of Republicans Doubt Theory of Evolution
Source: Gallup Poll
[Link: www.gallup.com...]

361 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:11:37pm

re: #358 Walter L. Newton

It's what you launder your numis in Walter.

362 Outrider  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:11:41pm

re: #326 ArmyWife

I am a conservative Republican and I don't believe creationism has a place in science class. What now?

ditto.

363 gmsc  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:11:49pm

re: #358 Walter L. Newton

A what?

I think he mean numismatist.

364 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:11:55pm

re: #358 Walter L. Newton

A what?

quit letting maisey use your account

/archy and mehitabel

365 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:12:01pm

re: #358 Walter L. Newton

Is that even legal in Maryland?

366 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:12:05pm

re: #359 gmsc

That last idea should be stamped out.

Perforate him Vinnie.

367 freetoken  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:12:08pm

re: #332 MandyManners

So the question becomes: what percentage of conservative Republicans DO support "trashing" science education?

For reference, once again the Gallup poll on this issue, where 54% of the people responding said creationism should be taught in schools.

368 pink freud  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:12:16pm

Remember how no one could be found from 0's Harvard days? Well, memories are returning. Its a miracle, I tells ya!

Harvard profs, classmates: Barack Obama an ‘extraordinary’ student

It might have taken America a little while to figure it out, but his teachers and classmates at Harvard Law School knew almost immediately that Barack Obama was destined for stardom.

“He came by my office to introduce himself and expressed an interest in my work and wanted to work with me,” said constitutional law professor Lawrence Tribe, recalling the moment when he met the skinny 27-year-old with the broad smile in 1988.

... snip ...

His classmates remember his intellect and idealism, but they also remember a nice guy with a quiet sense of humor who liked to play basketball and eat Mexican food.

“We have all been around people in our lives who you just knew were going to be a star and who were going to be incredible at what they did,” said Earl Phalen, 41, who met Obama through Harvard University’s Black Law Students’ Association. “He was the smartest and most humble person I have ever been around.”

... snip ...

“The way someone plays a sport tells you a lot about what kind of person they are,” said classmate Hill Harper, a Harvard Law School grad who turned to acting and now stars in “CSI: NY.”

Phalen recalled Obama as a peacemaker on the court.

“I remember a game, it must have been about 11 o’clock at night, and there was a hard foul and it was an almost entirely black team against a white team and chests were getting bumped. Barack would be the guy who would come over and break things up.”

His mentor saw that quiet authority, too.

I wonder who they're remembering.

From the comments: "His mentor saw that quiet authority, too." What, Bill Ayers went to Harvard?

369 USBeast  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:12:20pm

re: #357 Walter L. Newton

No Peter Darwin

[Link: www.umm.edu...]

Never heard of him, but I'm sure his mother is proud.

370 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:12:22pm

re: #358 Walter L. Newton

A what?

Numismatic

371 gmsc  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:12:42pm

re: #366 Walter L. Newton

Perforate him Vinnie.

Are you calling me a perfort?

372 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:12:55pm

re: #363 gmsc

I think he mean numismatist.

Yes, she did.

373 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:13:58pm

re: #364 OldLineTexan

quit letting maisey use your account

/archy and mehitabel

We had a 2:00 matinee today, instead of our regular 6:00pm show, to help cut down on competition from the Super Bowl.

So, Maisey wasn't expecting me back so early, caught her pecking at the keyboard.

374 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:14:02pm

re: #340 Steve Rogers

It's not a broad brush. It's a generality, because it is generally true.

I know there are some conservative republicans who realize evolution is a fact, but the current push trying to make people believe that evolution is "just a theory" (as if that meant it were nothing more than a hunch), is generally pushed for by conservative republicans. And it is hurting their party...and U.S. students.

I would counter it's being pushed by a subset of conservative republicans. The one of the main sources of push is the DI. One reason it is gaining traction is the damage done over the last 40 years by liberal domination in schools which moved the educational system from teaching of critical thinking to indoctrination.

I agree with your premiss, I just think a tighter focus would be appropriate.

375 Jim D  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:14:36pm

re: #306 Steve Rogers
Nice.
Post something else so I can upding you again.

376 USBeast  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:14:37pm

re: #372 reine.de.tout

Yes, she did.

I'm sure they meant no harm, your majesty.

377 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:14:39pm

re: #52 RightKlik

Darwin helped to take us another step away from providence. Right or wrong, that took our culture one step closer to a situational ethic.

Here are the ethics of a creationist contemporary of Darwin's, in full and nauseating display:

Louis Agassiz (1850) achieved great prominence among scientists as the theorist of polygeny on the basis of the following 'facts' on which he built the great edifice of polygeny:˜The indominable, courageous, proud Indian--in how very different a light he stands by the side of the submissive, obsequious, imitative Negro, or by the side of the tricky, cunning, and cowardly Mongolian! Are not these facts indications that the different races do not rank upon one level in nature?

378 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:14:59pm

re: #346 Jim in Virginia

Register as a Rastafarian. Or maybe a Philatelist.

There you go insult us Testudians.

379 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:15:00pm

re: #340 Steve Rogers

It's not a broad brush. It's a generality, because it is generally true.

I know there are some conservative republicans who realize evolution is a fact, but the current push trying to make people believe that evolution is "just a theory" (as if that meant it were nothing more than a hunch), is generally pushed for by conservative republicans. And it is hurting their party...and U.S. students.

I did appreciate and even applaud what you had to say and think as well that perhaps you're attributing the term Conservative to reactionaries - who are not true blue Conservatives.

380 Boogberg  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:15:11pm

Well, the new Star Trek movie better make at least two million! :D

381 JacksonTn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:15:31pm

Hey ...what happened to ya'lls play thing ...

382 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:15:40pm

re: #360 Steve Rogers

Majority of Republicans Doubt Theory of Evolution
Source: Gallup Poll
[Link: www.gallup.com...]

These results are based on telephone interviews with a randomly selected national sample of 1,007 adults, aged 18 and older, conducted June 1-3, 2007. For results based on this sample, one can say with 95% confidence that the maximum error attributable to sampling and other random effects is ±3 percentage points.

For results based on the sample of 203 Catholics, the maximum margin of sampling error is ±8 percentage points.

For results based on the sample of 804 non-Catholics, the maximum margin of sampling error is ±4 percentage points.

In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls.

Lazy. +/- 8 points? Why do they split Catholics and non-Catholics? WTF is that?

I'm sorry you want to lump me in there. I'm not at all in favor of ID in schools, or any religion for that matter.

But I will accept that you think I am based on 1007 strangers answering some questions over a phone.

383 BryanS  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:16:01pm

re: #174 RightKlik

No...the ideas are out there and the world has caught up. Even science is catching up. Physicists are coming closer and closer to the conclusion that the conditions of the universe are too perfect for life to have arisen by coincidence.

That line of thought can only be espoused by a scientist that doesn't believe in the scientific method. "Too convenient" doesn't really hold water as proof.

384 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:16:02pm

This is a much deeper issue in the republican party. Some people think being a conservative means traditional values while others think it means individual rights. Personally- I'm going to stick closer to the Goldwater mold while the party continues it's death throws.

385 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:16:02pm

re: #381 JacksonTn

Hey ...what happened to ya'lls play thing ...

What? Mines still here, I looked.

386 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:16:13pm

re: #340 Steve Rogers

FWIW, I consider myself to be a conservative republican, and did not take offense at you earlier post.

387 gmsc  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:16:22pm

re: #372 reine.de.tout

Yes, she did.

Oops. Sorry.

388 brookly red  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:16:36pm

re: #368 pink freud
takes a while to brief em....

389 USBeast  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:16:41pm

re: #381 JacksonTn

Hey ...what happened to ya'lls play thing ...

Uh, I don't know about yours but mine is still firmly attached.

390 JacksonTn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:17:00pm

re: #385 Walter L. Newton

What? Mines still here, I looked.

Walter ...you nasty boy ...talking about the creationist guy ...

391 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:17:57pm

re: #340 Steve Rogers

It's not a broad brush. It's a generality, because it is generally true.

Can you cite any polls that show this?

392 sngnsgt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:18:31pm

re: #380 Boogberg

To not make at least two million is illogical. ;-)

393 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:18:43pm

Our next show, opening Feb. 27th, deals with the existence of G-d. It's called "The Visitor" and it deals with Sigmund Freud, at the time the Nazi's have entered Vienna, and Freud is visited by a stranger who claims he is g-d.

French play, interesting.

394 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:18:57pm

re: #349 swamprat

No matter where you stand, down-dinging a thread that shows Darwin to be a humane man is just asinine.

There are many on the other side of this debate who want to teach that Darwin lead directly to Hitler.

395 freetoken  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:19:27pm

re: #382 OldLineTexan


Lazy. +/- 8 points? Why do they split Catholics and non-Catholics? WTF is that?

Because the RC officially accepts that evolution is OK by them, whilst the majority of evangelical Christians reject that evolution is OK.

396 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:19:34pm

re: #350 Sharmuta

I don't consider them conservatives. A conservative would stand up for the Constitution and defend it from ID. They may be republicans, but limited government conservatives they're not.

Ooo-rah.

397 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:19:44pm

Obama Dozed, people froze

MSM, where are you?

398 USBeast  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:20:01pm

re: #392 sngnsgt

To not make at least two million is illogical. ;-)

Possible, but only if it has Tribbles, lots and lots of Tribbles.

399 Outrider  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:20:18pm

re: #384 Sharmuta

This is a much deeper issue in the republican party. Some people think being a conservative means traditional values while others think it means individual rights. Personally- I'm going to stick closer to the Goldwater mold while the party continues it's death throws.

You are right. Although traditional values are conservative, it doesn't necessarily mean they are POLITICALLY Conservative.

400 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:20:34pm

re: #395 freetoken

Because the RC officially accepts that evolution is OK by them, whilst the majority of evangelical Christians reject that evolution is OK.

Great, here I am on the wrong side again. So all Catholics vehemently oppose abortion, too, right? John Kerry, for instance?

401 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:20:42pm

re: #382 OldLineTexan

These results are based on telephone interviews with a randomly selected national sample of 1,007 adults, aged 18 and older, conducted June 1-3, 2007. For results based on this sample, one can say with 95% confidence that the maximum error attributable to sampling and other random effects is ±3 percentage points.

For results based on the sample of 203 Catholics, the maximum margin of sampling error is ±8 percentage points.

For results based on the sample of 804 non-Catholics, the maximum margin of sampling error is ±4 percentage points.

In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls.

Lazy. +/- 8 points? Why do they split Catholics and non-Catholics? WTF is that?

I'm sorry you want to lump me in there. I'm not at all in favor of ID in schools, or any religion for that matter.

But I will accept that you think I am based on 1007 strangers answering some questions over a phone.

Another piece of info. in that poll:

Without further research, it's not possible to determine the exact thinking process of those who agreed that both the theory of evolution and creationism are true. It may be, however, that some respondents were seeking a way to express their views that evolution may have been initiated by or guided by God, and told the interviewer that they agreed with both evolution and creationism in an effort to express this more complex attitude.

The poll questions were not clear.

I think the poll questions may have been confusing.

402 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:20:56pm

re: #394 MandyManners

There are many on the other side of this debate who want to teach that Darwin lead directly to Hitler.

That's a line of reasoning they share with the left: Hitler = evil, therefore link anything you want to call evil to Hitler. A true moronic convergence.

403 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:21:05pm

re: #387 gmsc

Oops. Sorry.

:-)

404 Boogberg  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:21:34pm

re: #392 sngnsgt

To not make at least two million is illogical. ;-)

Why you green blooded, pointy eared... :D

405 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:21:48pm

re: #397 ArmyWife

Obama Dozed, people froze

MSM, where are you?

I'm confused (what's new). I thought that the state has to ask for FEMA help? And I can't find any mention in that article if that has been done.

I may be wrong on both points, just asking.

406 JacksonTn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:21:48pm

Touchdown Cards !

407 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:22:13pm

Where did rightklik go off to?

408 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:22:25pm

Spiffy sweating robot....
Swiss robot tests anti-sweat clothes

Nice face.

409 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:22:34pm

re: #406 JacksonTn

Touchdown Cards !

Did the game start?

410 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:22:54pm

re: #64 RightKlik

Its not that Darwin would have anticipated the impact of his ideas, but unintended consequences happen.

Yeah. Unintended consequences like being able to splice a daffodil gene sequence into the rice genome, producing a Vitamin A rich grain that prevents millions of poor Southeast Asian children from coming down with rickets.

411 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:22:56pm

re: #397 ArmyWife

Obama Dozed, people froze

MSM, where are you?

They don't care. To them, the storm is killing mostly conservative people who deserve to suffer for their evil ways.

/not really kidding

412 Wyatt Earp  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:22:56pm

re: #409 Walter L. Newton

Did the game start?

Steelers up 10-7.

413 The Shadow Do  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:23:11pm

re: #360 Steve Rogers

Majority of Republicans Doubt Theory of Evolution
Source: Gallup Poll
[Link: www.gallup.com...]

Wow, I had no idea ignorance was so wide and deep. I don't even know how to process that, even given Gallup's obvious point of departure during the election run up.

414 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:23:23pm
415 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:24:08pm

re: #405 Walter L. Newton

They do. They did in New Orleans, too. And don't forget, Obama put on the White House website that he will NOT repeat the same horrific thing Bush did in responding to Katrina. Guess he really meant it, as this storm is not, in fact, named Katrina.

416 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:24:09pm

re: #401 reine.de.tout

The poll questions were not clear.

I think the poll questions may have been confusing.

Poll questions seem to be written to produce the desired answers.

I have no use for them, especially since some seem to govern by them.

However, I appreciate the link from Steve Rogers. Food for thought, although as an engineer I find an accuracy of + - 8 percentage points to be trash. Any poll should have a few witness questions that restate others to point out bad data.

417 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:24:12pm

re: #412 Wyatt Earp

Steelers up 10-7.

I guess my question was a little stupid, since JacksonTn posted a score.

Boy, if you smoke pot, Super Bowl has a totally different meaning.

418 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:24:35pm

re: #399 Outrider

You are right. Although traditional values are conservative, it doesn't necessarily mean they are POLITICALLY Conservative.

And I by no means am trying to say traditional values are bad, or wrong or anything like that. I guess I couldn't think of another phrase to explain my meaning.

To me- a conservative believes in individual rights, the rule of law and supports the Constitution. There are others in the party who think they support this except in certain cases where it goes against their desire to push a different agenda, such as ID. I don't consider that conservative in any way.

If I'm wrong, then I'm not a conservative. But I will stick with Barry.

419 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:24:50pm

re: #410 Salamantis

Yeah. Unintended consequences like being able to splice a daffodil gene sequence into the rice genome, producing a Vitamin A rich grain that prevents millions of poor Southeast Asian children from coming down with rickets.

And the Luddite Left opposes that too. Real defenders of science are hard to find these days. It takes a willingness to see the world as it is and that is in short supply right now.

420 Wyatt Earp  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:24:56pm

re: #417 Walter L. Newton

I guess my question was a little stupid, since JacksonTn posted a score.

Boy, if you smoke pot, Super Bowl has a totally different meaning.

Super Bong!

421 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:25:02pm

Adnan Oktar brags about spreading creationism in Europe....

422 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:25:21pm

re: #407 reine.de.tout

Where did rightklik go off to?

Good question. Trying to find links not related to Behe, perhaps.

423 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:25:29pm

re: #416 OldLineTexan

Poll questions seem to be written to produce the desired answers.

I have no use for them, especially since some seem to govern by them.

However, I appreciate the link from Steve Rogers. Food for thought, although as an engineer I find an accuracy of + - 8 percentage points to be trash. Any poll should have a few witness questions that restate others to point out bad data.

I always answer those differently.
hee-hee.

424 Steve Rogers  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:25:36pm

re: #326 ArmyWife

I am a conservative Republican and I don't believe creationism has a place in science class. What now?

Then write to Republican Party leaders in your area; if your Congress member or Senator is a Republican, write to them; write a letter to the editor of your local paper; telling them all how you feel.

Perhaps if enough honest and real conservative republicans did that, they could get back what a very loud group in the Republican Party is foolishly throwing away.

The Republican Party of today needs a 21st Century William F. Buckley to save it.

425 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:25:56pm

re: #415 ArmyWife

They do. They did in New Orleans, too. And don't forget, Obama put on the White House website that he will NOT repeat the same horrific thing Bush did in responding to Katrina. Guess he really meant it, as this storm is not, in fact, named Katrina.

Ok, but in that article, I see no mention that the state or any local communities have asked for federal help.

My point being, if they haven't asked for help, then no one is sleeping yet.

Is this preemptive complaining?

426 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:26:17pm

re: #421 Killgore Trout

Adnan Oktar brags about spreading creationism in Europe....

[Video]

And so the light dies... [sob!]

427 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:26:40pm
428 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:26:45pm

re: #424 Steve Rogers

You assume much. I'm quite active in state politics (very close to the head of our RNC, he's been my vet since I was 13) as well as national politics - to include the new head of the RNC.

429 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:26:50pm

re: #401 reine.de.tout

The poll questions were not clear.

I think the poll questions may have been confusing.

I haven't been called on poll since I got in an argument with the poller.

I forget what the question was, I rejected the premiss of the question and said all the answers where therefore false. It was pretty funny.

430 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:27:33pm

re: #425 Walter L. Newton

I'm not complaining - I'm pointing out hypocrisy. Stop putting facts into this, I am wearing my tinfoil hat right now. Actually, I'll look to see if they've asked.

431 JacksonTn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:27:41pm

re: #425 Walter L. Newton

Ok, but in that article, I see no mention that the state or any local communities have asked for federal help.

My point being, if they haven't asked for help, then no one is sleeping yet.

Is this preemptive complaining?

So ...Louisiana officials screwed their part up and they still blamed it all on Bush ...Obama needs to get his ass off the couch and away from the television and act like he gives a crap about a red state ...RACIST ...

432 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:28:09pm

re: #425 Walter L. Newton

Ok, but in that article, I see no mention that the state or any local communities have asked for federal help.

My point being, if they haven't asked for help, then no one is sleeping yet.

Is this preemptive proactive complaining?

Everything has CHANGEd now.

433 Randall Gross  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:28:14pm

I think the Jindal pimp tucked tail and ran back to never-never land.

434 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:28:30pm

re: #426 Dark_Falcon

They are claiming more Europeans believe in Allah than evolution. The polls they are citing are complete bullshit but it's easy to see their goal.

435 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:28:31pm
436 freetoken  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:28:35pm

re: #421 Killgore Trout

"Belief in Allah now dominates Europe" [?!] she said...

437 vxbush  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:28:46pm

re: #415 ArmyWife

They do. They did in New Orleans, too. And don't forget, Obama put on the White House website that he will NOT repeat the same horrific thing Bush did in responding to Katrina. Guess he really meant it, as this storm is not, in fact, named Katrina.

I have seen virtually nothing about the storms and the problems in Kentucky in the news. Zippo. Nada.

438 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:28:50pm

re: #427 buzzsawmonkey

BTW, re #414: Note that Belloc is mocking racism by subdividing the "white race" of the Europeans into three "races," and rankng them according to preference.

It's OK, I saw him get melted by the Ark of the Covenant ...

/

439 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:28:56pm

re: #433 Thanos

I think the Jindal pimp tucked tail and ran back to never-never land.

LOL, I saw that on his blog too. It's not like we wouldn't have guessed, though.

440 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:29:07pm

re: #421 Killgore Trout

Adnan Oktar brags about spreading creationism in Europe....

[Video]

Augh! My brain hurts!

441 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:29:12pm

re: #433 Thanos

Maybe he was late for an exorcism.

442 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:29:25pm

re: #417 Walter L. Newton

I guess my question was a little stupid, since JacksonTn posted a score.

Boy, if you smoke pot, Super Bowl has a totally different meaning.

Super Bowl!

Drained by one with super lungs.
that is indeed Michael Phelps.

443 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:29:28pm

re: #425 Walter L. Newton

They've asked. FEMA working with all the zip and speediness of, well, a government agency.

Local officials were growing angry with what they said was a lack of help from the state and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. In Grayson County, about 80 miles southwest of Louisville, Emergency Management Director Randell Smith said the 25 National Guardsmen who have responded have no chain saws to clear fallen trees.

"We've got people out in some areas we haven't even visited yet," Smith said. "We don't even know that they're alive."

Smith said FEMA has been a no-show so far.

"I'm not saying we can't handle it; we'll handle it," Smith said. "But it would have made life a lot easier" if FEMA had reached the county sooner, he said.

FEMA spokeswoman Mary Hudak said some FEMA personnel already are in Kentucky working in the state's emergency operations center and that more will be arriving in coming days. Hudak said FEMA also has shipped to 50 to 100 generators to the state to supply electricity to facilities like hospitals, nursing homes, and water treatment plants.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

444 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:29:43pm

re: #397 ArmyWife

Obama Dozed, people froze

MSM, where are you?

Trying to figure out how they can pin this on Bush?

445 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:29:44pm

re: #430 ArmyWife

I'm not complaining - I'm pointing out hypocrisy. Stop putting facts into this, I am wearing my tinfoil hat right now. Actually, I'll look to see if they've asked.

And no, the complaining remark was NOT said in your direction, I was talking about the person that wrote that article.

There is nothing I can see in that article that would back up the subject of the article.

446 Scion9  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:29:49pm

that Darwin, despite the pernicious spread of “social Darwinism” (the notion, popularized by Herbert Spencer, that human society progresses through the “survival of the fittest”), was no racist.

The irony of this statement being that it is the Creationists themselves that put forward the fraudulent claim that Herbert Spencer and other 'social Darwinists' were the philosophical forebares of Nazism. They rebut the connection between Darwin and social Darwinism but not the anti-historical claim at the root of the Darwin lead to Nazism slur.

What's more is that social Darwinism isn't close to being a close-knit philosophy but a very broad, loosely interconnected set of philosophies, mainly being that for decades its only competing mainstream social philosophy was that of Socialism.

Of course free market philosophies today are off shoots of 'social Darwinism', promoting the aggregating of capital into the hands of those that merit it through good business sense. Sink or swim. So, I guess for a Socialist it makes good sense to forward the Creationists claims, while attempting to absolve Charles Darwin.

447 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:29:52pm

re: #440 Charles

Unfortunately the video cuts off too soon. I was really enjoying that one.

448 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:29:58pm

re: #442 reine.de.tout

Super Bowl!

Drained by one with super lungs.
that is indeed Michael Phelps.

Confirmed by CNN: Phelps apologizes for pot use

449 Wyatt Earp  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:30:00pm

re: #438 OldLineTexan

It's OK, I saw him get melted by the Ark of the Covenant ...

/

I saw the same thing happen to James Carville.

450 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:30:18pm

re: #434 Killgore Trout

They are claiming more Europeans believe in Allah than evolution. The polls they are citing are complete bullshit but it's easy to see their goal.

Yes, Mark Steyn laid out their goal quite well in America alone.

BBL.

451 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:30:45pm

re: #423 reine.de.tout

OK, upding for giggling, I'm a sucker.

But bad reine. Bad, bad, bad.

452 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:30:50pm

re: #285 Salamantis

Empirical science is methodologically naturalistic; it cannoty assume metaphysical causes for metaphysical effects, or else every empirical inquiry would be strangled in its cradle by the contention that God did it, His ways are beyond human understanding, so there's no reason to even try to figure out the causes for observed phenomena for ourselves. But methodological naturalism is no metaphysical atheism; empirical science assumes neither God's presence nor God's absence - the question is simply not addressed, as it falls outside the empirical science purview.

Your comment is admirable in its conciliatory and fairminded tone directed at the hypersensitive DI/ID mindset. Yet all this tiptoeing through the creationist tulips really does grow tiresome.

There is every reason to "try to figure out the causes for observed phenomena for ourselves." Through the application of the scientific method that is exactly what scientists aim to do. It is a perfectly rational response to a perfectly natural curiosity.

453 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:30:54pm

re: #429 jcm

I haven't been called on poll since I got in an argument with the poller.

I forget what the question was, I rejected the premiss of the question and said all the answers where therefore false. It was pretty funny.

I had the same experience once.

They gave me my answer choices, and I told them that my answer was not in there. And I gave them my answer.

And he again gave me my answer "choices", said I had to pick one of them.
I told him I couldn't, none or them were what my answer would be.

We went round and round for just a bit. . .
finally I hung up.

454 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:30:57pm

re: #443 ArmyWife

They've asked. FEMA working with all the zip and speediness of, well, a government agency.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

OBAMA DOZED!

455 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:31:05pm

re: #435 buzzsawmonkey

Why not just be "conservative," rather than try to determine via this or that litmus test whether you are "a conservative?"

"Conservative" as an adjective leaves much more room for individuality--and individual thought--than "conservative as a noun.

I guess because it still leaves the linguistic and ideological battle in place.

456 JacksonTn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:31:42pm

35 yard return by the Cards ...!

457 jaunte  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:31:58pm

I hope Right Klik comes back to explain which one of Darwin's ideas was "godless" and how he arrived at that determination.

458 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:32:33pm

re: #457 jaunte

Because I care about you and your health, do not hold your breath.

459 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:32:48pm

re: #444 Daisy

Trying to figure out how they can pin this on Bush?

Karl Rove still has the keys to Bush's weather machine.

460 jaunte  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:33:00pm

re: #458 ArmyWife
Ha. I'll be fine.

461 Wyatt Earp  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:33:22pm

re: #459 jcm

Karl Rove still has the keys to Bush's weather machine.

ROVE, YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD!

462 Karridine  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:33:42pm

re: #427 buzzsawmonkey

BTW, re #414: Note that Belloc is mocking racism by subdividing the "white race" of the Europeans into three "races," and rankng them according to preference.

A good observation, and one which underlines the falsity and the egregious divisive character of 'race'...

If we divide along obvious, outward characteristics (black, yellow, white, brown) then WHEN do we stop?

All these can intermarry and produce viable offspring, speaking to the oneness of their race, no matter how 'black' one partner and how 'white' the other...

Are the Serbian 'whites' a different race from the Polish 'whites' or German 'whites' or Italian 'whites'? Where does it end?

/Bushwa! The human race is ONE RACE.

463 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:34:06pm

re: #457 jaunte

I hope Right Klik comes back to explain which one of Darwin's ideas was "godless" and how he arrived at that determination.


As well as links to all of those physicists he claimed were "coming closer and closer to the conclusion that the conditions of the universe are too perfect for life to have arisen by coincidence"

464 swamprat  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:34:19pm

The Emerald Tablets of Hermes mirror known mathematical formulae. We need to include studies showing that Hermetical Science is paired the The math of the western world.

1. The principle of Mentalisme: "All is mind"
2. The principle of correspondence: "As Above, so Below".
3. The principle of Vibration:" All is in vibration".
4. The principle of Polarity: " Everything is dual".
5. The principle of Rhythm: " Everything flows".
6. The principle of Cause and Effect: " Everything happens according to Law".
7. The principle of Gender: " Everything has its Masculine and Feminine Principles"

Hermes and Math; Teach The Controversy!

465 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:34:22pm

BBIAB - got to cube some chicken for my pat of soup.

466 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:34:38pm

re: #89 RightKlik

I'm not blaming Darwin for anything. I'm just saying that big ideas often have intended and unintended consequences, and Darwin's ideas are a good example. As time has passed, Darwin has come to be seen in a different light. But his ideas where such a huge paradigm shift, it took a long time to fully process and digest those ideas. As with anything else of its magnitude, some good things and some bad things happened along the way.

And the primary good thing was advanced understanding of the terrestrial biosphere in which we live, and of ourselves, and of how we are inextricably intertwined. We evolved here. We belong.

But to say that Darwin is responsible for whatever good or evil people do, or are credited or accused of doing either in his name or under the influence of his ideas, is like saying that Jesus is responsible for the historical Germanic Christian Jew-hatred leading to the Holocaust.

467 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:35:02pm
468 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:35:14pm

re: #443 ArmyWife

They've asked. FEMA working with all the zip and speediness of, well, a government agency.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

FEMA

469 sngnsgt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:35:20pm

re: #404 Boogberg

Why you green blooded, pointy eared... :D

re: #442 reine.de.tout

Imagine that, a gold medal winning Olympic swimmer using a water pipe, how ironic.

470 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:35:32pm

re: #457 jaunte

What's interesting is I don't think the creationists and IDers have thought about the unintended consequences of their actions.

471 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:36:18pm

re: #467 buzzsawmonkey

I might just start calling myself an "individualist".

472 Outrider  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:36:59pm

re: #418 Sharmuta

And I by no means am trying to say traditional values are bad, or wrong or anything like that. I guess I couldn't think of another phrase to explain my meaning.

To me- a conservative believes in individual rights, the rule of law and supports the Constitution. There are others in the party who think they support this except in certain cases where it goes against their desire to push a different agenda, such as ID. I don't consider that conservative in any way.

If I'm wrong, then I'm not a conservative. But I will stick with Barry.

True.

But back to the poll- how does this poll take into account the many, many Democrats in the South (for example) that support ID and teaching of creationism in the school. Again, my yellow dog Democrat neighbor (bless his heart, I am always using Mr. Huey as an example ;-)> ) is a full believer in literal creationism and fights to get it pushed into school curriculum. He is hardly a political Conservative and for damn sure isn't a Republican. I can probably come up with any number of names from around here that believe the same way. Kind of skews that poll a little, eh?

473 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:37:02pm
474 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:37:35pm

re: #469 sngnsgt

re: #442 reine.de.tout

Imagine that, a gold medal winning Olympic swimmer using a water pipe, how ironic.

I was just imagining a 23-year-old who has worked damned hard all his life, finally attaining his goal and being able to relax and let loose a little, AND PEOPLE WON'T LET HIM BE!

Fer cryin' out loud.

475 jaunte  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:37:45pm

Just a random data point re: conservatives and the evolution/intelligent design debate. I've heard the debate going on a couple of time now, driving around at lunchtime, on this radio talk show:
[Link: www.joepags.net...]
The host has not educated himself on the issue, and is buying in to the idea that there are two equal theories that should be given equal time in science classrooms. So that part of the DI p.r. campaign seems to be working on people who don't care to learn more about it..

476 sngnsgt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:37:45pm

re: #469 sngnsgt

DOH! I didn't mean to quote #404 also.

477 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:37:49pm

re: #459 jcm

Karl Rove still has the keys to Bush's weather machine.

In that case I'm contacting him. I'd like him to do something warm w/the ice in my driveway and all over my roof!

478 freetoken  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:38:24pm

re: #466 Salamantis


But to say that Darwin is responsible for whatever good or evil people do [...]

Have you not heard? "Science leads you to killing people" (at 1:17 into the video.)

479 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:38:45pm

re: #472 Outrider

True.

But back to the poll- how does this poll take into account the many, many Democrats in the South (for example) that support ID and teaching of creationism in the school. Again, my yellow dog Democrat neighbor (bless his heart, I am always using Mr. Huey as an example ;-)> ) is a full believer in literal creationism and fights to get it pushed into school curriculum. He is hardly a political Conservative and for damn sure isn't a Republican. I can probably come up with any number of names from around here that believe the same way. Kind of skews that poll a little, eh?

I think that goes to show the uselessness of labels which dovetails nicely with what buzzsaw and I are discussing.

480 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:39:37pm

re: #465 Walter L. Newton

BBIAB - got to cube some chicken for my pat of soup.

Do you put a pot of butter on your bread?

481 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:39:38pm

re: #474 reine.de.tout

I was just imagining a 23-year-old who has worked damned hard all his life, finally attaining his goal and being able to relax and let loose a little, AND PEOPLE WON'T LET HIM BE!

Fer cryin' out loud.

You've obviously never watch Reefer Madness, it's the demon weed I tell you!
Next thing you know after seeing that picture all kinds of kids will try it!
/////////

482 Outrider  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:39:44pm

re: #424 Steve Rogers

Then write to Republican Party leaders in your area; if your Congress member or Senator is a Republican, write to them; write a letter to the editor of your local paper; telling them all how you feel.

Perhaps if enough honest and real conservative republicans did that, they could get back what a very loud group in the Republican Party is foolishly throwing away.

The Republican Party of today needs a 21st Century William F. Buckley to save it.

preaching to the choir I suspect. By virtue of the fact posters are even here denotes an interest in politics and international affairs. Many have their own blogs. Although the level of activism varies, I suspect most on here are active politically.

483 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:40:00pm

re: #478 freetoken

Have you not heard? "Science leads you to killing people" (at 1:17 into the video.)

I sometimes felt like whacking my AP Physics teacher, if that means anything.

484 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:41:26pm

re: #468 avanti

Does he pay you?

485 JacksonTn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:41:56pm

Interception Cards !

486 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:42:05pm

re: #480 MandyManners

I feel like I am typing for him!

487 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:42:22pm

re: #471 Sharmuta

I might just start calling myself an "individualist".

I tell people who consider me Satan for my conservative views that I'm a Conservative w/decidedly Old School Liberal values (which is true). And then leave them scratching their heads.

488 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:43:04pm

re: #487 Daisy

I lean heavily towards Classical Liberal.

489 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:43:06pm

re: #480 MandyManners

Do you put a pot of butter on your bread?

Oh leave me alone, I'm not Graham Kerr. I'm trying hard.
/

490 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:43:45pm

re: #474 reine.de.tout

I can see this with drinking and going a bit nuts. But doing drugs is illegal. I know people on here are somehow ok with it - I personally am not. I don't find it OK to break the law - plain and simple. I've made it 37 years without doing drugs, it is very possible.

491 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:44:20pm

re: #368 pink freud

and now they all want a quarter.

492 jaunte  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:44:29pm
[Link: www.statejournal.com...]
FEMA also is fulfilling the commonwealth’s requests for diesel fuel and unleaded gasoline. Delivery of a total 80,000 gallons began Saturday at commonwealth staging areas in Greenville and Paducah.

That's nine tanker trucks.

493 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:44:57pm

re: #421 Killgore Trout

You do have to admit, the model spokesperson is kinda hot, in a "sexy Finnish librarian who's trying to retard your mental development" kind of way.

494 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:45:20pm
495 Kenneth  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:45:21pm

Origin of the Specious: Race, lies and stereotypes in Rudolf Steiner’s anthroposophy


Creationism is not the only enemy of science in today’s classroom. Within the self proclaimed “fastest growing school movement in the world”, Steiner Waldorf schools foster their belief system with a deception which is quite chilling.

This is about the founder of the Waldorf school movement, a decidely wierd man, and a cult masquerading as a "natural school".

496 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:45:33pm

re: #467 buzzsawmonkey

So you won't do the Lock Step, eh? Will you do the Watoosie? Lambada?

497 Outrider  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:45:47pm

re: #461 Wyatt Earp

ROVE, YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD!

Hope he is magnificent during his appearance tomorrow in what is probably the first of many subpoenas to be served for Bush administration "crimes".

498 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:45:51pm

re: #486 ArmyWife

I feel like I am typing for him!

I know what happened. My keyboard is about a 1/4 of an inch further over to the left than it should be, and I am hitting some of the wrong letters on the keyboard. I moved it back and this paragraph is fine.

But if I shift it 1/4 to the left...

yjrn oy fprdm'y eptl tohjy.

See?

499 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:45:52pm

re: #488 Sharmuta

I lean heavily towards Classical Liberal.

Sung to the tune of that Tomato song: You say Classical Liberal and I say Old School Liberal - but let's not call the whole thing off :)

500 sngnsgt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:45:52pm

re: #474 reine.de.tout

I was just imagining a 23-year-old who has worked damned hard all his life, finally attaining his goal and being able to relax and let loose a little, AND PEOPLE WON'T LET HIM BE!

Fer cryin' out loud.

I was only making a stupid joke about a swimmer and a water pipe. I agree with you though, after all his hard work and training to achieve his goals, the man should be able to let loose a little without being scrutinized. Hell, I wish I was there tokin' with him!

501 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:45:59pm

re: #490 ArmyWife

I can see this with drinking and going a bit nuts. But doing drugs is illegal. I know people on here are somehow ok with it - I personally am not. I don't find it OK to break the law - plain and simple. I've made it 37 years without doing drugs, it is very possible.

And I don't do drugs either.
And neither should Michael Phelps be doing drugs.
But neither should people be following him around just waiting for him to screw up, imo.
Let him be.

502 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:46:01pm

re: #468 avanti

So, they are getting there, but not with the speed and might as promised by The One. Do you suppose getting all this together takes time and coordination? Wonder if that was true when Bush was in charge...hmmm....

503 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:46:01pm

re: #478 freetoken

Have you not heard? "Science leads you to killing people" (at 1:17 into the video.)

Absolutely true and I can prove it!
Fleming discovers penicillin.
Penicillin saved the lives of many wounded soldiers in WWII.
Those soldiers when then able to continue killing.
egro... Fleming's discovery of penicillin is responsible for lots of killing in WWII!

Brilliant!
I should make a movie about the evil Dr. Fleming!


// need I? just in case.

504 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:46:07pm

re: #104 RightKlik

It's not backpedaling. If you establish an idea, and someone else does bad things with it, that's not your fault.

Especially when they misuse and abuse the idea, twisting and distorting it beyond all recognition.

Evolutionary theory, for instance, is diametrically opposed to what eugenicists have done. Evolutionary theorists would contend that environmental selection should be allowed to proceed uninterfered with, but eugenicists always wanna impose their pet 'intelligent design' on the process. Perhaps this is why Hitler ordered Darwin's books burned, and why neither Darwin nor evolution ever appeared in Mein Kampf.

What eugenics really is is the application of animal husbandry, which has been employed for all of recorded history, to the human population, and the first person who suggested this course of action was Plato, who was born millennia before Darwin.

505 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:46:10pm

re: #493 Occasional Reader

I wouldn't throw her out of bed for quoting Behe.

506 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:46:12pm
507 jaunte  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:47:33pm

re: #501 reine.de.tout

I agree. I'm a bit more concerned with our political leaders having problems following the tax laws.

508 USBeast  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:47:43pm

I'm slow. I confess it. It took me years to figure out why Fundamentalist Christians were so vehemently opposed to, what to me, was the obvious truth of the theory of evolution.

The reasoning runs thus wise: If the theory of evolution is correct there was no Garden of Eden, no Adam and Eve, no Serpent, no Temptation and (most importantly) no Original Sin.

If there was no Original Sin the self-sacrifice of Jesus is robbed of its purpose and meaning and the whole basis of Sin-centric Christianity collapses.

509 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:47:44pm

Idiocy is a turnoff.

510 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:47:45pm

re: #505 Killgore Trout

I wouldn't throw her out of bed for quoting Behe.

I wouldn't throw any woman out of bed, even if she didn't even know Behe.

By the way, who is Behe?

511 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:47:52pm

re: #501 reine.de.tout

I agree with that - but he is a public figure and should have known better - if he wasn't 23 I guess he would. That said, drugs are not allowed.

512 Boogberg  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:48:51pm

re: #476 sngnsgt

DOH! I didn't mean to quote #404 also.

I gathered that. :D

513 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:49:12pm

re: #499 Daisy

You and me, sister. Let's take them on!

514 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:49:36pm

re: #506 buzzsawmonkey

I have video of my husband doing the macrena in his dress blues at a wedding. Saving it for the perfect blackmail moment.

515 Steve Rogers  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:49:36pm

I was asked for a poll. I posted a poll. Some people may try to say polls are inaccurate. Perhaps they are. Perhaps they aren't.

But let's face reality here people: The current push to demonize evolution is coming from those within the Republican Party. I agree with those who say true conservatives would do no such thing when it comes to the push to get religion in science class, but whatever type of republican you call them - or they call themselves - the majority of anti-science when it comes to evolution is coming from repbulicans:

Sam Brownback, Mike Huckabee, and Tom Tancredo all raised their hands in a debate saying they did not believe in evolution. Then there is Sarah Palin. She had so much going for her. But she wanted "creationism" in public schools alongside evolution. So even if you discount polls, these are big names when it comes to republicans.

I know McCain said he believed in evolution, but let's face it, McCain is hardly a republican, much less a conservative!

And yes, I know the Democratic Party has their looney lefties who push their own anti-scientific claptrap on various issues, but this topic is about evolution/creationism. For all the democrats' faults (And they have MANY), generally, they are not the ones lying about evolution while pushing for pseudoscience in this area. Generally, that is almost always from republicans. And they are losing elections as a result of it.

516 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:49:43pm

If you want you can download the complete video I linked to earlier here....
THE COLLAPSE OF DARWINISM IN EUROPE

517 pink freud  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:50:17pm

re: #500 sngnsgt

I was only making a stupid joke about a swimmer and a water pipe. I agree with you though, after all his hard work and training to achieve his goals, the man should be able to let loose a little without being scrutinized. Hell, I wish I was there tokin' with him!

Utter hogwash. Are you really saying that the deserved reward for hard work and training is to go out and get stoned?

518 Kenneth  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:50:28pm

re: #468 avanti

"Heck of a job" still applies.

519 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:50:47pm

re: #515 Steve Rogers

McCain did a speaking gig with the Discovery Institute.

520 Kenneth  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:51:04pm

re: #510 Walter L. Newton

I wouldn't throw any woman out of bed, even if she didn't even know Behe.

By the way, who is Behe?

Behe is a leader theorist of Intelligent Design

521 Outrider  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:51:36pm

interception!

522 JacksonTn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:51:51pm

Interception Steelers and touchdown ...

523 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:51:55pm

re: #503 jcm

I should make a movie about the evil Dr. Fleming!

On the plus side, he did invent James Bond.

/

524 Outrider  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:52:08pm

touchdown. uh oh called back

525 Kenneth  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:52:41pm

re: #478 freetoken

Have you not heard? "Science leads you to killing people" (at 1:17 into the video.)

'cause "religious" people have never killed anybody. Right?

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

526 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:52:42pm

re: #517 pink freud

Utter hogwash. Are you really saying that the deserved reward for hard work and training is to go out and get stoned?

No, just that he's 23 years old, he missed out on a lot of stuff while he was working so hard to get his day at the Olympics, and people should not be following him around just waiting for him to screw up so that they can make several thousand $ for a photo.

527 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:52:44pm

re: #484 ArmyWife

Does he pay you?

Well, sorta. I get my military retirement check from the Feds.
The FEMA story shows two different slants from the MSN. It looks like they did get there fast, listed what they did but have certainly not helped everyone, fair and balanced is somewhere in there between our two links.
There is another link, but it's from the Democratic governor and a bit too upbeat.

528 Scion9  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:52:50pm

re: #519 Sharmuta

McCain did a speaking gig with the Discovery Institute.

DI has also consulted with a lot of Conservative pundits for their books, such as Ann Coulter. It is a big deal.

529 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:52:57pm

re: #519 Sharmuta

McCain did a speaking gig with the Discovery Institute.

[Link: www.discovery.org...]

530 Outrider  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:53:04pm

100 freaking yards interception return!

531 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:53:10pm

re: #523 Occasional Reader

On the plus side, he did invent James Bond.

/

And all those EVIL characters!
Proves my point!
/

532 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:53:33pm

re: #530 Outrider

100 freaking yards interception return!

That must explain all the noise I'm hearing on the TV right now.

533 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:53:34pm

re: #530 Outrider

100 freaking yards interception return!

Who? Who?
Score?

534 JacksonTn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:53:48pm

re: #530 Outrider

100 freaking yards interception return!

Yeah ...I am shocked ...they challenging ...

535 Karridine  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:54:03pm

It may have been covered earlier, but there is some social pressure for me to view / participate-in the SuperBowl... is there ANY way to view it online?

I'm in Bangkok, 0755 now... wanna SEE...

536 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:54:08pm

re: #528 Scion9

I used to like her back in the clinton days. Now I find her an embarrassment.

537 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:54:32pm

re: #511 ArmyWife

I agree with that - but he is a public figure and should have known better - if he wasn't 23 I guess he would. That said, drugs are not allowed.

I'm with you. And I think the newspapers, if they want to stick their nose into his business, shouldn't pretend they don't know what addiction is and ought to think about whether they would report the possibility of Phelps having some other illness as if it's simply scandalous. Phelps, has already had at least 1 DWI, despite that, he continues to abuse drugs, including alcohol. This is indicative of an addictive disorder.

538 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:54:59pm

re: #530 Outrider

100 freaking yards interception return!

END THE STEELER OCCUPATION OF CARDINAL TERRITORY!

539 freetoken  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:55:41pm

re: #508 USBeast

You summed up the central theological issue, I believe.

In practice, many of the more religious folk are concerned with surety of their authority figures more than the pure theological reasoning, I suspect.

540 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:55:43pm

re: #527 avanti

He doesn't pay you, I do, we all do. With my taxes. My husband's salary, too, for the record. He is still Active Duty.

541 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:55:46pm

re: #535 Karridine

It may have been covered earlier, but there is some social pressure for me to view / participate-in the SuperBowl... is there ANY way to view it online?

I'm in Bangkok, 0755 now... wanna SEE...

ESPN
Not watch but updated score and plays.

542 sngnsgt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:56:00pm

re: #517 pink freud

Utter hogwash. Are you really saying that the deserved reward for hard work and training is to go out and get stoned?

Not at all, what he did was stupid, but after achieving his goals through hard work and training, he's going to live under a microscope for the rest of his life. For that, I do feel sorry for him.

543 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:56:26pm

re: #457 jaunte
re: #490 ArmyWife

I can see this with drinking and going a bit nuts. But doing drugs is illegal. I know people on here are somehow ok with it - I personally am not. I don't find it OK to break the law - plain and simple. I've made it 37 years without doing drugs, it is very possible.

For the most part I don't care what people smoke (as libertarian as I get, I guess) but whether he likes it or not Phelps is a role model. He makes dope look cool.
I have two fourteen year olds who so far, I think/ hope, do not think drugs are cool. I don't need this from Phelps.
Beyond that - how stupid is it to take a bong hit while someone is taking video?

544 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:56:39pm

Hmmmmm... home made soup gooooodddd!

545 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:56:44pm

re: #515 Steve Rogers

But she wanted "creationism" in public schools alongside evolution.

Cite, please.

546 BryanS  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:56:58pm

re: #487 Daisy

I tell people who consider me Satan for my conservative views that I'm a Conservative w/decidedly Old School Liberal values (which is true). And then leave them scratching their heads.

re: #488 Sharmuta

I lean heavily towards Classical Liberal.

Problem with the social cons is they took away all the air in the room--insisting only social conservatives are the real conservatives. This blog would be Classical Liberal in thinking.

547 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:57:08pm

re: #502 ArmyWife

So, they are getting there, but not with the speed and might as promised by The One. Do you suppose getting all this together takes time and coordination? Wonder if that was true when Bush was in charge...hmmm....

You can't equate the two, Katrina was a much bigger event, we learned a lot from that. The ice storm was not near as hard a test, and I blame the old FEMA leadership for the Katrina screw ups, not GW.

548 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:57:15pm

re: #496 Slumbering Behemoth

So you won't do the Lock Step, eh? Will you do the Watoosie? Lambada?


Let's do the Time Warp again.

549 Karridine  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:57:17pm

re: #541 jcm

Thank you kindly, its something... a notch up from the 'interception Cardinals' available here...

/not that I'm complaining, mind you :D

550 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:57:26pm

re: #526 reine.de.tout

No, just that he's 23 years old, he missed out on a lot of stuff while he was working so hard to get his day at the Olympics, and people should not be following him around just waiting for him to screw up so that they can make several thousand $ for a photo.

i agree. there is something so wrong w/ these parasites circling around trying to make a buck off of celebrities. he has learned the hard way that unscrupulous people see his awkward unbecoming moments as their meal ticket.
ugly fact. i hope he shapes up.

551 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:57:32pm

re: #537 Daisy

I'm with you. And I think the newspapers, if they want to stick their nose into his business, shouldn't pretend they don't know what addiction is and ought to think about whether they would report the possibility of Phelps having some other illness as if it's simply scandalous. Phelps, has already had at least 1 DWI, despite that, he continues to abuse drugs, including alcohol. This is indicative of an addictive disorder.


Good point!

552 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:58:04pm

So, who wants to bet that Bruce Springsteen will barf up some sort of slobbery praise for The One?

553 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:58:40pm

re: #546 BryanS

Problem with the social cons is they took away all the air in the room--insisting only social conservatives are the real conservatives. This blog would be Classical Liberal in thinking.

I said it after the election, and I'll say it again. Republicans cannot win without fiscal conservatives. This goes back to 1992. When republicans walk away from fiscal conservative principles- they lose.

554 JacksonTn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:58:55pm

re: #552 Occasional Reader

So, who wants to bet that Bruce Springsteen will barf up some sort of slobbery praise for The One?

That's a given ...

555 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:59:04pm

re: #545 MandyManners

Cite, please.

she did not want creationism in school.

556 Outrider  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:59:15pm

re: #533 jcm

Who? Who?
Score?

Sorry. Had to watch that a couple of times. Steelers.

557 Scion9  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:59:33pm

re: #539 freetoken

You summed up the central theological issue, I believe.

In practice, many of the more religious folk are concerned with surety of their authority figures more than the pure theological reasoning, I suspect.

Here is the wikipedia article relating to that type of theology...
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

558 BryanS  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 4:59:38pm

re: #501 reine.de.tout

And I don't do drugs either.
And neither should Michael Phelps be doing drugs.
But neither should people be following him around just waiting for him to screw up, imo.
Let him be.

Well he did set himself up to be a public figure as a role model. I agree that he should be cut some slack, though. Of all possible transgressions, he could do worse..

559 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:00:16pm

re: #548 Jim in Virginia

Sarandon's finest work, if you ask me.
/

560 Boogberg  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:00:21pm

Please no political statements, Bruce! Don't piss me off.

561 Outrider  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:00:22pm

all the dancers on tv are wearing lizards on their shirts

562 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:00:34pm

re: #550 nyc redneck

i agree. there is something so wrong w/ these parasites circling around trying to make a buck off of celebrities. he has learned the hard way that unscrupulous people see his awkward unbecoming moments as their meal ticket.
ugly fact. i hope he shapes up.

I hope he does, too.
Have you seen the crowds of paparazzi that follow these celebrities?

I don't know how they live a regular life, except all boarded up in their own homes. It's no wonder they are out of touch with the reality of how the rest of the country views things and views them.

563 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:00:55pm

re: #560 Boogberg

Please no political statements, Bruce! Don't piss me off.

I'll bet you an upding he does it.

564 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:00:59pm

re: #497 Outrider

Hope he is magnificent during his appearance tomorrow in what is probably the first of many subpoenas to be served for Bush administration "crimes".


I thought he had refused to show up?

565 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:01:26pm

re: #552 Occasional Reader

So, who wants to bet that Bruce Springsteen will barf up some sort of slobbery praise for The One?

the good thing is, he is so 'inarticolate' we won't understand a word of it.

566 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:01:36pm

re: #552 Occasional Reader

So, who wants to bet that Bruce Springsteen will barf up some sort of slobbery praise for The One?

Pass. ...or for the Cardinals...don't pass with 3.

Helluva play.

567 jaunte  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:01:40pm

re: #543 Jim in Virginia

No question a dumb move on his part. My point was that we should hold our elected officials to as high a standard for criminal behavior, and not just accept them into cabinet positions.

568 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:01:46pm

re: #143 RightKlik

The problem is that the world wasn't ready for his ideas. The world wasn't ready for the idea that God wasn't directly involved in the creation of every single species of plant and animal on the face of the earth. That wasn't consistent with their interpretation of the Bible at the time. So to accept Darwin's ideas, people felt that they had to reject the Bible and the God who was supposed to have inspired it. And for a lot of people that's exactly what happened.

Lao Stinky disagrees. People who insist that belief in a God and the theory of evolution are mutually exclusive understand neither theism nor evolution. And the only people who could possibly see an irresolvable conflict between evolution and Christianity are Biblical Literalists, and the facts that species are genetically related via 3.5 billion year old common ancestors and that we inhabit a 4.6 billion year old earth in a 13.7 billion old universe are empirically demonstrable beyond rational doubt. So should we hide this knowledge from such people to avoid their becoming upset?

569 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:01:49pm

Whoo hoo! Olbermann not doing Half time after all?

570 USBeast  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:01:58pm

re: #539 freetoken

You summed up the central theological issue, I believe.

In practice, many of the more religious folk are concerned with surety of their authority figures more than the pure theological reasoning, I suspect.

I suspect you're correct. How many celebrity preachers have proven themselves charlatans in the last twenty years?

571 Outrider  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:02:06pm

re: #564 Jim in Virginia

I thought he had refused to show up?

hadn't heard that. It is possible.

572 pink freud  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:02:19pm

re: #542 sngnsgt

Not at all, what he did was stupid, but after achieving his goals through hard work and training, he's going to live under a microscope for the rest of his life. For that, I do feel sorry for him.

Phelps represents excellence. His choice. To me, that still means something. I teach it to my children. It matters. If he is focused on excellence, then why smoke dope in public? If he is focused on fucking up, then why bother with the Olympics?

The issue of whether or not he lives under a microscope is moot to me. The fact is his choices have led him there and created expectations about the man he really is. For good or bad, that's the reality of it.

573 Boogberg  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:02:26pm

re: #563 Occasional Reader

I'll bet you an upding he does it.

You're on!

574 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:02:57pm
575 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:02:58pm

re: #555 nyc redneck

she did not want creationism in school.

I asked Steve for a cite. Charles has consistently searched for such an utterance from her, and he has found none.

576 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:03:23pm

re: #549 Karridine

Thank you kindly, its something... a notch up from the 'interception Cardinals' available here...

/not that I'm complaining, mind you :D

Yahoo game cast also....

577 Outrider  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:04:04pm

re: #574 buzzsawmonkey

Just by the way: back in the old days, there were two eateries in the basement of the Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago. One was an adult eatery, with reasonably decent food and a relatively quiet atmosphere.

The other was a raucous cafeteria which had long tables and benches, which catered to classes of kids who were at the museum on field trips. It mostly served beverages, since it was a place for the kids to eat their box lunches.

The decorative mural on the walls of this cafeteria was a comic depiction of--cavemen and dinosaurs, cavorting together. The Field Museum certainly did not encourage creationism, or a Young Earth view of the world, but back in the late '50s and early '60s having such an "Alley Oop"-inspired mural was not thought to be any great shakes.

That cafeteria is long gone, but I thought this was an appropriate place to mention it.

Ala Flintstones? ;-)>

578 pink freud  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:04:06pm

re: #550 nyc redneck

i agree. there is something so wrong w/ these parasites circling around trying to make a buck off of celebrities. he has learned the hard way that unscrupulous people see his awkward unbecoming moments as their meal ticket.
ugly fact. i hope he shapes up.

Please don't make a victim out of the man. His choices, his consequences.

579 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:04:07pm

re: #569 gclaghorn

Whoo hoo! Olbermann not doing Half time after all?

He's working on Obama's response to the ice storm in Ky.

580 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:04:16pm

re: #574 buzzsawmonkey

I think they have a McDonald's now.

581 BryanS  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:04:22pm

re: #553 Sharmuta

I said it after the election, and I'll say it again. Republicans cannot win without fiscal conservatives. This goes back to 1992. When republicans walk away from fiscal conservative principles- they lose.

Let's hope the recent spine they are growing, refusing to accept a highly partisan bailout bill from Pelosi, is a sign they got the message.

582 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:04:31pm

re: #508 USBeast

I'm slow. I confess it. It took me years to figure out why Fundamentalist Christians were so vehemently opposed to, what to me, was the obvious truth of the theory of evolution.

The reasoning runs thus wise: If the theory of evolution is correct there was no Garden of Eden, no Adam and Eve, no Serpent, no Temptation and (most importantly) no Original Sin.

If there was no Original Sin the self-sacrifice of Jesus is robbed of its purpose and meaning and the whole basis of Sin-centric Christianity collapses.


Ypu may be right. But I can believe in Original sin without a belief in a literal Adam and Eve.

583 Throbert McGee  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:04:32pm
This narrative, they claim, is precisely backward. “Darwin’s starting point,” they write, “was the abolitionist belief in blood kinship, a ‘common descent’ ” of all human beings.

My first reaction to this was: "Hey, wait -- but the Creationist narrative also asserts that all human beings are descended from common ancestors, namely Adam and Eve. And presumably all Christians prior to Darwin, including those who supported the enslavement of Africans, would have agreed with this point, too."

But then I remembered that prior to Darwin -- and to this day among some Creationists -- racial differences are explained as having been supernaturally introduced, literally overnight, into the human gene pool: as part of God's "curse" on Ham, or as part of the confusion of languages at the tower of Babel, or both.

So for this reason, abolitionist sentiments would've given Darwin impetus to seek a fully naturalistic explanation for the human "races."

584 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:04:51pm

re: #515 Steve Rogers

I was asked for a poll. I posted a poll. Some people may try to say polls are inaccurate. Perhaps they are. Perhaps they aren't.

But let's face reality here people: The current push to demonize evolution is coming from those within the Republican Party. I agree with those who say true conservatives would do no such thing when it comes to the push to get religion in science class, but whatever type of republican you call them - or they call themselves - the majority of anti-science when it comes to evolution is coming from repbulicans.

This is sadly very true. It's a large part of the social conservative agenda to demonize evolution. It's actually difficult to find a GOP politician who doesn't support creationism.

585 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:05:03pm
586 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:06:05pm

re: #574 buzzsawmonkey

kids who were at the museum on field trips

"Field" trips! Hahaha! I get it! You ol' punster, you!

587 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:06:43pm

re: #585 buzzsawmonkey

My recollection is that the portion of your statement above which I have bolded is utterly false.

If it's not, it shouldn't be hard for Steve Rogers to find, since it should be on every liberal blog and web site on the planet.

He won't find it.

588 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:07:38pm

Back on topic for a moment. Fresh water turtle fossil found in the arctic

589 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:07:41pm

And now,

for something completely different

Not THE LARCH

590 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:08:02pm

Holy shit Springsteen is tiresome.

591 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:08:14pm

re: #588 avanti

Back on topic for a moment. Fresh water turtle fossil found in the arctic

How prophetic, on topic for, indeed, a moment.

592 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:08:24pm

re: #588 avanti

Back on topic for a moment. Fresh water turtle fossil found in the arctic

See it is Turtles all the Way Down!
/ ;-P

593 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:08:43pm

"Put the chicken fingers down! Step away from the guacamole dip!"

ROFL

594 jaunte  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:08:47pm

Here's what Sarah Palin said about the intelligent design issue:

"Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both. And you know, I say this too as the daughter of a science teacher. Growing up with being so privileged and blessed to be given a lot of information on, on both sides of the subject -- creationism and evolution. It's been a healthy foundation for me. But don't be afraid of information and let kids debate both sides."


[Link: www.livescience.com...]

595 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:08:57pm
596 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:08:58pm

Hm, that "leaping onto the stage" thing doesn't work so well when you're pushing 60, does it, Bruce?

597 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:09:08pm

re: #578 pink freud

Please don't make a victim out of the man. His choices, his consequences.

i hardly see him as a victim. perhaps young and naive.
i hope he learned a lesson. that's what life's abt.

598 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:09:27pm

re: #594 jaunte

Teach the controversy!

599 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:09:28pm

re: #580 Sharmuta

I've not seen a McDonalds (was there last year) that I remember. Gross cafeteria still there.

600 sngnsgt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:09:55pm

re: #590 astronmr20

Holy shit Springsteen is tiresome.

He's like, so yesterday.

601 Scion9  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:10:02pm

re: #578 pink freud

Please don't make a victim out of the man. His choices, his consequences.

If Phelps isn't going to be allowed to compete in '12, I certainly hope that none of the Olympians that have imbibed alcohol over the past 4 years also will be denied the opportunity. There are countries that will be competing in London that have legal marijuana, and there are countries that have illegal alcohol. If he is being barred on the basis of an 'illegal' (non-performance enhancing) drug as some committee sees it, that isn't at all related to any actual criminal charges, the penalty will seem very arbitrary. I find it unlikely that athletes that drank a beer at a party would be subjected to the same scrutiny, when in the scope of a multinational event that beer is just as illegal.

602 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:10:08pm

re: #538 Occasional Reader

END THE STEELER OCCUPATION OF CARDINAL TERRITORY!


Stop the genocide avianicide!

603 Killian Bundy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:10:21pm

Wow, talks about tons of old white people!

/Bruce is getting into Vegas territory

604 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:10:26pm

re: #599 ArmyWife

My memory is most likely off, then. Was a long time ago I was there.

605 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:10:31pm

re: #515 Steve Rogers

606 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:10:31pm

re: #596 Occasional Reader

Hm, that "leaping onto the stage" thing doesn't work so well when you're pushing 60, does it, Bruce?

Did he really leap on to the stage?

607 solomonpanting  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:10:33pm

Damn game is interrupting the commercials.
What? No Steve Lawrence and Eydie Gorme?

608 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:10:48pm
609 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:10:51pm

re: #606 Walter L. Newton

Did he really leap on to the stage?

The piano, too.

610 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:10:53pm

re: #585 buzzsawmonkey

Sarah Palin has said both things. She was asked if she supported teaching creationism in schools, and she said yes. Then when a controversy erupted over it, she changed her position and said she did not support it.

I know, it's a shock that a politician would try to have it both ways...

611 esch  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:11:20pm

re: #584 Charles

This is sadly very true. It's a large part of the social conservative agenda to demonize evolution. It's actually difficult to find a GOP politician who doesn't support creationism.

Probably the biggest reason I haven't actually joined the GOP. I'm stuck outside on the party's porch, basically. I know a number of right leaning people who feel similarly.

612 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:11:27pm

re: #606 Walter L. Newton

Did he really leap on to the stage?

No, sort of... clambered.

613 USBeast  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:11:30pm

Well, Lizards, it's time for my Sunday cigar and Netflix movie. Tonight's feature: Time Bandits. Tonight's cigar: Partagas, avec a small (refillable) glass of Tullamore Dew.

614 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:11:37pm

re: #600 sngnsgt

He's like, so yesterday.

But, I'm so yesterday too. I love him.

615 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:11:49pm

Oh, I can't take this God-forsaken screeching asshat Springsteen anymore.

616 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:12:00pm
617 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:12:04pm

re: #610 Charles

Sarah Palin has said both things. She was asked if she supported teaching creationism in schools, and she said yes. Then when a controversy erupted over it, she changed her position and said she did not support it.

I know, it's a shock that a politician would try to have it both ways...

You're saying Sarah Palin swings both ways? You'll need to provide some video evidence, mister.

/

618 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:12:07pm

re: #174 RightKlik

No...the ideas are out there and the world has caught up. Even science is catching up. Physicists are coming closer and closer to the conclusion that the conditions of the universe are too perfect for life to have arisen by coincidence.

Please furnish supportive evidence for this conclusion, or even evidence that credible empirical scientists are entertaining the question, because it is clearly outside the scientific purview, which is physical, and not metaphysical.

619 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:12:08pm

re: #604 Sharmuta

Food at the Smithsonian leaves a lot to be desired. Anyone been to the spy museum? THAT is very, very cool!

620 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:12:13pm

Mike Phelps could smoke a whole dimebag and still bring home the gold.

621 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:12:21pm

re: #612 Occasional Reader

No, sort of... clambered.

Wow... I'm glad I missed that. What show was that on?

622 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:12:29pm

Stinkin' filthy commie hippie. The mic stand is not a substitute for your genitals, so get it out from between your legs.

I'd rather watch the commercials.

623 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:12:30pm

re: #594 jaunte

Here's what Sarah Palin said about the intelligent design issue:


[Link: www.livescience.com...]

Wow. She was taught that in a science classroom or, science in school and creationism at home?

624 WhiteRasta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:12:48pm

re: #590 astronmr20

Legend in his own mind. and a stinking hypocrite, to boot.

625 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:12:53pm

re: #621 Walter L. Newton

Wow... I'm glad I missed that. What show was that on?

Halftime show at some sort of football game or other.

626 gmsc  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:12:59pm

re: #592 jcm

See it is Turtles all the Way Down!
/ ;-P

It is NOT turtles all the way down!

It's been scientifically observed that there's one aardvark in the mix (about 314 turtles down).

627 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:13:06pm

Obama's going to make all of us rich!
So don't repossess my car!
Audio file....

628 BryanS  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:13:25pm

re: #584 Charles

This is sadly very true. It's a large part of the social conservative agenda to demonize evolution. It's actually difficult to find a GOP politician who doesn't support creationism.

Very true. A high level of religiosity of their politicians is a non-negotiable from the social cons' perspective. It didn't seem to be like that for the rise of Reagan and Bush Sr, but really seemed to kick in when Republicans took over the house. None of the major Republican advances in the past 20 years were due to the social conservative agenda in my mind. But if you listen to social cons, they are the primary raison d'etre of the Republican party.

629 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:13:28pm

re: #508 USBeast

I'm slow. I confess it. It took me years to figure out why Fundamentalist Christians were so vehemently opposed to, what to me, was the obvious truth of the theory of evolution.

The reasoning runs thus wise: If the theory of evolution is correct there was no Garden of Eden, no Adam and Eve, no Serpent, no Temptation and (most importantly) no Original Sin.

If there was no Original Sin the self-sacrifice of Jesus is robbed of its purpose and meaning and the whole basis of Sin-centric Christianity collapses.

That's exactly there argument. If you go looking around at creationist/ID blogs, that's precisely what they say.

630 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:13:35pm

re: #624 WhiteRasta

Legend in his own mind. and a stinking hypocrite, to boot.

Why a hypocrite?

(And I do like his older music, btw.)

631 Killian Bundy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:13:45pm

re: #618 Salamantis

The dude bailed well over an hour ago.

/why do feel the need to talk to the long departed?

632 capitalist piglet  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:13:55pm

re: #515 Steve Rogers

Then there is Sarah Palin. She had so much going for her. But she wanted "creationism" in public schools alongside evolution. So even if you discount polls, these are big names when it comes to republicans.

Her father was a science teacher in school, and I think she indicated, noting that fact, that she supported teaching science in science class.

633 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:13:56pm

re: #551 reine.de.tout

Good point!

Thanks. This is important to me. If the media insists upon being bewildered by Phelps (and far less accomplished) Britney Spears, Paris Hilton etc. , then some terrific opportunities will be lost.

634 JacksonTn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:13:57pm

Springsteen sounds like he is out of breath ...

635 jaunte  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:13:58pm

re: #623 MandyManners

The whole "teach both and let the kids decide" thing is very bothersome.

636 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:14:02pm

Matilda was MVP in the Puppy Bowl V.

637 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:14:11pm

Bruce is kind of doing an Aretha here. He's just missing the satellite dish hat.

638 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:14:48pm

re: #626 gmsc

It is NOT turtles all the way down!

It's been scientifically observed that there's one aardvark in the mix (about 314 turtles down).

Heretic! May you slide off the south side of the turtle stack and spend eternity in a dung pile from and infinite number of turtles!
;-)

639 freetoken  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:14:50pm

re: #615 gclaghorn

Oh, I can't take this GodNatural-Selection-forsaken screeching asshat Springsteen anymore.

/corrected it for you

640 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:14:54pm

Oh My God. Bring back that Garmin-voiced poet from the Inauguration.

641 outsidephilly  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:15:12pm

re: #636 MandyManners

Matilda was MVP in the Puppy Bowl V.

what breed?

642 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:15:20pm

re: #636 MandyManners

Matilda was MVP in the Puppy Bowl V.

Which network was this?

643 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:15:26pm

re: #600 sngnsgt

He's like, so yesterday.


My kids come home and, like, tell me that, like, school is way, like, cool this year and, like I keep saying stop, like, stop saying bloody "like" every, like second bloody, like, word.............Like!

644 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:15:29pm

re: #611 esch

I think we need to get to a place that is OK with the teaching of creationism at home, in Church, in a private school, but not support it in a public school science class. I do not care if anyone believes in creationism, personally. I just don't want it taught in science class. Arguably, I would be OK with it debated in a comparative religions class.

645 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:15:33pm

re: #610 Charles

Sarah Palin has said both things. She was asked if she supported teaching creationism in schools, and she said yes. Then when a controversy erupted over it, she changed her position and said she did not support it.

I know, it's a shock that a politician would try to have it both ways...

I did not know that, and I've been paying attention.

646 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:15:34pm

re: #642 Occasional Reader

Which network was this?

Animal Planet.

647 esch  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:15:48pm

re: #635 jaunte

The whole "teach both and let the kids decide" thing is very bothersome.

While we do that, we have probably 50 other creation mythos that need to be covered, as well. If they're equally valid, they all need equal time.

648 capitalist piglet  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:15:51pm

re: #632 capitalist piglet

Her father was a science teacher in school, and I think she indicated, noting that fact, that she supported teaching science in science class.

Well, color me corrected. That's not quite what she said.

649 Moonbat Serenade  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:15:59pm

re: #596 Occasional Reader

Hm, that "leaping onto the stage" thing doesn't work so well when you're pushing 60, does it, Bruce?

The way he is grimacing, I think he needs more prunes in his diet.

650 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:16:02pm

re: #640 gclaghorn

Oh My God. Bring back that Garmin-voiced poet from the Inauguration.


"...white man's greed hurts a world in need.."

/Oh wait that's another poet that said that.

651 JacksonTn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:16:04pm

Springsteen getting into Dylan territory ...can't understand him ...except for DREAM ...gag

652 The Shadow Do  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:16:05pm

Springsteen has become a parody....of himself!

653 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:16:12pm
654 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:16:14pm

re: #635 jaunte

The whole "teach both and let the kids decide" thing is very bothersome.

I have no problem with it as long as science is taught in school and religion is taught at home and in church.

655 razorbacker  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:16:20pm

re: #306 Steve Rogers

If conservative republicans succeed with this hugely misguided and highly unintelligent design of theirs, the medicines and bio-tech jobs of tomorrow will be made by nations other than the United States, while American biology students will be busy pumping gas and talking about the glory days of the United States...a country that will be a third world nation thanks to one very stupid push by the soon-to-be equally decimated Republican Party who demanded that we take a giant step backwards 3,000 years instead of forward into the future.

When you yoke the creationist/evolutionist catfight with the equally destructive yes-we-are-no-we're-not AGW boondoggle, science will become the province of seers, soothsayers, and alchemists.

But the essential truth still holds. "Follow the money."

656 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:16:22pm

I keep expecting Stevie Van Zandt to wack someone.

657 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:16:43pm

re: #634 JacksonTn

Springsteen sounds like he is out of breath ...

That's the new style of singing... er, panting.

658 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:16:43pm

re: #650 astronmr20

"...white man's greed hurts a world in need.."

/Oh wait that's another poet that said that.

No, I'm talking about the one from the beginning who sounded like the next thing she was going to say was, "Turn left in zero point two miles."

659 Scion9  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:16:44pm

re: #623 MandyManners

Wow. She was taught that in a science classroom or, science in school and creationism at home?

Many of my relatives were taught Creationism in public schools during the 50s and early 60s in Virginia. I believe Jimmy Carter was a proponent for it as well. I don't know exactly when it was entirely phased out.

660 WhiteRasta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:16:51pm

re: #630 Occasional Reader

He signed a deal with The Great Satan Wal-Mart and then tried to blame his "people" for making a mistake.

Mr. Workers Rights, my ass.

661 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:16:56pm
662 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:16:56pm

re: #635 jaunte

The whole "teach both and let the kids decide" thing is very bothersome.

And teaching both is possible without bringing it into the science classrooms of America. Teach science in the classroom, and creation at home or church- the kids can still decide. What's so difficult about this?

663 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:17:08pm

re: #613 USBeast

*SPOILER ALERT*

Don't touch it!

664 Only The Lurker Knows  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:17:26pm

Yo Charles! I Know you like to direct business to Amazon. But this is bullshit No mention what so ever of LGF. They totally ignore LGF and give the Huffers a hat tip?

More than 1000 top blogs from the worlds of business, technology, sports, entertainment, and politics, including BoingBoing, Slashdot, TechCrunch, ESPN's Bill Simmons, The Onion, Michelle Malkin, and The Huffington Post—all updated wirelessly throughout the day.

665 Omega3  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:17:42pm

I guess it's OK to teach evolution in schools. Just let the kids pray about it. But definitely no teaching gayness.

666 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:17:46pm

re: #625 Occasional Reader

Halftime show at some sort of football game or other.

Oh, I'm watching the Nazi shows on the History Channel.

Nazi's Favorite Breakfast's.
Nazi's and their Boots

667 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:17:51pm

re: #608 buzzsawmonkey

It is, however, my recollection that she not only did not mandate teaching creationism in the Alaskan schools, but specifically said she would not work towards pushing creationism were she to be elected to the Vice-Presidency.

But would she oppose her supporters who did?

668 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:17:55pm

sarah palin does not believe in teaching creationism in the science class lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala she does not she does not she does not lalalalalalalalalalalalala she does not.
she said so. lalalalala

669 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:18:02pm

re: #658 gclaghorn

No, I'm talking about the one from the beginning who sounded like the next thing she was going to say was, "Turn left in zero point two miles."

I'm talking about another attendee of the inauguration, the President of the United States.

670 jaunte  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:18:08pm

re: #647 esch

While we do that, we have probably 50 other creation mythos that need to be covered, as well. If they're equally valid, they all need equal time.

re: #654 MandyManners

I have no problem with it as long as science is taught in school and religion is taught at home and in church.

That's a mess we don't need, and it's easily averted with the Mandy Manners solution.

671 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:18:17pm

re: #661 buzzsawmonkey


It's worked out so well with grammar

Like, what do you, like, mean, like?

672 monkeytime  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:18:30pm
673 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:18:32pm

Brucie's over his time limit.

674 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:18:37pm

re: #615 gclaghorn

Oh, I can't take this God-forsaken screeching asshat Springsteen anymore.


Cant be any worse that Neil Young jumping up and down stage pretending he is 18 years old and still good for a lay.

675 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:18:45pm

re: #626 gmsc

It is NOT turtles all the way down!

It's been scientifically observed that there's one aardvark in the mix (about 314 turtles down).

and its name is PI

676 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:18:55pm

re: #671 Occasional Reader

Like, what do you, like, mean, like?

I, like, don't, like, know what, like, he's talking, like, about. Like.

677 jaunte  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:18:59pm

re: #673 gclaghorn

Brucie's over his time limit.

Time for Terry Tate.

678 esch  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:19:00pm

re: #670 jaunte

Agree 100%

Should have had a sarc tag, sorry.

679 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:19:01pm

re: #642 Occasional Reader

Which network was this?

Animal Planet. Half-time was kitties playing.

680 capitalist piglet  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:19:02pm

re: #666 Walter L. Newton

Oh, I'm watching the Nazi shows on the History Channel.

Nazi's Favorite Breakfast's.
Nazi's and their Boots

LOL - The Hitler Channel! It's on almost all the time in my house.

681 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:19:04pm

Did he just say "its boss time?"

Fuck I hate Springsteen.

682 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:19:28pm
683 jaunte  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:19:36pm

re: #678 esch

I think I was reading one in!

684 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:19:47pm

re: #641 outsidephilly

what breed?

Beagle.

685 gmsc  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:19:52pm

re: #638 jcm

Heretic! May you slide off the south side of the turtle stack and spend eternity in a dung pile from and infinite number of turtles!
;-)

Well, there is a school of thought that holds that the aardvark sits in for a turtle when they need to be elsewhere (Wait, what's more important than . . .).

686 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:19:52pm

re: #579 Walter L. Newton

He's working on Obama's response to the ice storm in Ky.

How to explain the giant field filled with unused snowplows?

687 CynicalConservative  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:20:19pm

re: #673 gclaghorn

Brucie's over his time limit.

Yeah, that happened, what, in 1983?

688 outsidephilly  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:20:22pm

re: #684 MandyManners

Beagle.

. . . , my all time favorite breed!

689 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:20:46pm

re: #584 Charles

It's actually difficult to find a GOP politician who doesn't support creationism.

And it's hard to find a Jackass who doesn't see Jews and Christians as acceptable targets.

Case in point: the Middle East.

690 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:20:58pm

re: #672 monkeytime

OT: Israel Strikes Gaza


You hadnt heard?

What you wouldnt have heard, of course, was that the gazanz have been firing rockets continually and this is a response to that. Thats the MSM for us!

691 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:21:31pm

re: #199 RightKlik

No. Some questions can't be answered by physics. Some questions can never be answered.

Just because there are things that we don't know, and things that in princilpe we cannot know, is no reason to dismiss or ignore the fact that there are many things that we pragmatically DO know, and many other things that we theoretically CAN know. But these things are confined to the realm of the physical; metaphysical contentions cannot be known to be either true or false in the absence of empirical evidence, which cannot be supplied for metaphysical contentions. Metaphysical contentions must either be believed in or not. That distinction, evidence-supported knowledge vs. evidence-bereft belief, is what distinguishes empirical science from dogmatic faith.

692 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:21:40pm

re: #682 buzzsawmonkey

Well, the Lay of the Last Minstrel, perhaps.

Neil Young is well beyond his Minstrel period.

Wait. Let me rephrase that.

693 Boogberg  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:21:43pm

Nothing wrong with that halftime show. It kicked ass.

694 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:22:02pm

re: #659 Scion9

Many of my relatives were taught Creationism in public schools during the 50s and early 60s in Virginia. I believe Jimmy Carter was a proponent for it as well. I don't know exactly when it was entirely phased out.

I went to public schools in the South during the 70s but I don't recall hearing a word about creationism. We were taught about Darwin.

695 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:22:20pm

re: #692 Occasional Reader

Neil Young is well beyond his Minstrel period.

Wait. Let me rephrase that.


No, no. Leave as is, its just fine.

696 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:22:23pm

re: #693 Boogberg

Nothing wrong with that halftime show. It kicked ass.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

697 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:22:24pm

re: #660 WhiteRasta

Walmart employs people, last I checked, a lot of people!

698 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:22:34pm

re: #686 debutaunt

How to explain the giant field filled with unused snowplows?

OBAMA HATES WHITE PEOPLE!

/

699 Omega3  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:22:35pm

re: #672 monkeytime

OT: Israel Strikes Gaza

Residents said hundreds of people who work in the tunnels fled, then waited in the streets of the border city, Rafah, for the attacks to end so they could return.

huh? wtf?

700 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:22:35pm
701 Killian Bundy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:22:43pm

Well, that's over.

/C'MON CARDINALS, MAKE OBAMA LOOK LIKE AN ASS FOR PICKING THE STEELERS!

702 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:22:45pm

That LMAO commercial was just weird.

703 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:22:54pm

why is it so hard for rockers to grow old gracefully.
or at least w/ a little dignity.
this desperate grab for relevance is pathetic.

704 Scion9  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:23:06pm

re: #680 capitalist piglet

LOL - The Hitler Channel! It's on almost all the time in my house.

Man I wish it was still the Hitler Channel. It is wall to wall crap anymore. Lucky to catch a show that actually has anything to do with actual history.

705 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:23:09pm

re: #664 Bubblehead II

Yo Charles! I Know you like to direct business to Amazon. But this is bullshit No mention what so ever of LGF. They totally ignore LGF and give the Huffers a hat tip?

More than 1000 top blogs from the worlds of business, technology, sports, entertainment, and politics, including BoingBoing, Slashdot, TechCrunch, ESPN's Bill Simmons, The Onion, Michelle Malkin, and The Huffington Post—all updated wirelessly throughout the day.

LGF is one of the blogs they offer for the Kindle, but I'm not sure why anyone would pay to use a Kindle to read a blog.

Here's the page for LGF, complete with an anti-LGF review ranting about Robert Spencer and creationism. Probably someone who was banned.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

706 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:23:16pm

re: #699 Omega3

huh? wtf?

I thought i had read that wrong. Typo?

707 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:23:29pm

re: #647 esch

While we do that, we have probably 50 other creation mythos that need to be covered, as well. If they're equally valid, they all need equal time.

C.A.I.R. is just watchin' and waitin'.

708 ciaospirit  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:23:33pm

I think Springsteen's glory days are behind him.

Yikes, his voice. Yikes, when he barely made the jump onto the piano. Yikes, when he said he's going to Disneyland.

709 Hobbes  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:23:48pm

re: #684 MandyManners

Beagle.

I love beagles.

710 caliredst8r  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:23:48pm

re: #572 pink freud

While I admire all he accomplished, he is an ass. My nephew went to high school with him, same grade. Phelps thought he was BMOC, and pulled the old "what are you looking at" play on my nephew. My nephew said nothing, so Phelps thought he had one of his usual meek targets to play with. Something he didn't notice, or forgot, is that my nephew is a big sumbitch, starting defensive lineman on the varsity football team. Phelps very quickly found himself up against the wall with his heels a few inches off the ground. Needless to say he never messed with my nephew again, but from what my nephews says about him, Phelps was quite the bully jock.

711 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:23:54pm
Teach science in the classroom, and creation at home or church- the kids can still decide. What's so difficult about this?

Actually- the problem for the creationists isn't that they're incapable of teaching their own children- they want to get their hands on your kids.

That's why it's a problem.

712 outsidephilly  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:23:55pm

re: #703 nyc redneck

why is it so hard for rockers to grow old gracefully.
or at least w/ a little dignity.
this desperate grab for relevance is pathetic.

Did Joe Cocker ever 'grow' old?

713 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:24:26pm

re: #693 Boogberg

Nothing wrong with that halftime show. It kicked ass.

When the filthy hippie commie started using the mic stand as a substitute for his (much smaller) genitalia, I turned it off and came here.

714 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:24:29pm

Great show and, thank God, Springsteen didn't politicize.

715 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:24:30pm

Hmmmm. I just had a bowl of soup from my pat of homemade chicken veggie soup.

716 brookly red  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:24:32pm

re: #634 JacksonTn

Springsteen sounds like he is out of breath ...

Bruce is gettin old & Stevie even worse...

717 freedombilly  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:24:36pm

re: #12 RightKlik

We've got a real winner here. Wow!

718 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:24:37pm

re: #688 outsidephilly

. . . , my all time favorite breed!

I love it too but, Beagles and The Kid don't mix.

719 WhiteRasta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:24:47pm

re: #697 ArmyWife

No, no, no. Wal-Mart exploits people and keeps them down, dontch'a know?

No self respecting leftist would be seen dead in a Wal-Mart.

720 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:24:56pm
721 gmsc  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:24:56pm

re: #627 jcm

Obama's going to make all of us rich!
So don't repossess my car!
Audio file....

I love it! 0bama has obviously been taking marketing lessons from Richard Addison:

722 sngnsgt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:25:02pm

re: #643 A Kiwi Infidel

LOL! I just used the "like" thing to inject a little sarcasm. The one I really hate is, "You know" after every few words you know?

723 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:25:22pm

Has anyone noticed that Obama is already looking a bit haggard?

724 outsidephilly  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:25:39pm

re: #718 MandyManners

I love it too but, Beagles and The Kid don't mix.

sorry to hear that . . . , allergies?

725 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:25:50pm

re: #697 ArmyWife

Walmart employs people, last I checked, a lot of people!

Yes, but Springsteen is upset about the Wal-Mart deal.

726 Boogberg  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:26:06pm

re: #696 astronmr20

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzz

Well I thought it was cool. I liked Prince last year, too.

727 claspur  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:26:14pm

OFF TOPIC!: I might not be there at the time, but my ppl are already there in Nordland to help Bruce SpringSproing to a better life after what he sings-down about my nation on national soup-kitchen television.

Don't ever forget who voted these people into control of our government now....idiots just like SpringSproing....playing his socialist crap all over the half-time stage tonight at a Pooperbowel.

Ummm....... Go Steelers! *hick

728 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:26:15pm

re: #719 WhiteRasta

No, no, no. Wal-Mart exploits people and keeps them down, dontch'a know?

No self respecting leftist would be seen dead in a Wal-Mart.

Exactly. Because to purchase their Chinese goods from Target.

729 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:26:33pm

re: #723 astronmr20

Has anyone noticed that Obama is already looking a bit haggard?

I'm sure he'll have kind words for Haggard.

730 JacksonTn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:26:39pm

re: #723 astronmr20

Has anyone noticed that Obama is already looking a bit haggard?

He looks like he has been going home at night and curling up in a fetal position next to Michelle and crying his eyes out ...his eyes are swollen almost every day ...

731 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:26:45pm

re: #713 victor_yugo

When the filthy hippie commie started using the mic stand as a substitute for his (much smaller) genitalia, I turned it off and came here.

I hope he didn't whistle a dirty song.

732 Killian Bundy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:26:48pm

re: #693 Boogberg

Nothing wrong with that halftime show. It kicked ass.

/sure, if it was 25 years ago

733 razorbacker  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:26:57pm

re: #686 debutaunt

How to explain the giant field filled with unused snowplows?

I was talking to the power crew yesterday (blessings be upon them) and I asked, 'Where is the bucket truck?'

'Can't get it down the roads up here.'

'Where is your wire truck?'

'They're all busy elsewhere.'

So six men climbed rocking power poles and heaved crossmembers up by hand winches, then pulled wires with pulleys and hand-labor after chainsawing trees out of the easements and me using my old jeep and 4-wheeler to pull brush and limbs out of their way.

Only two of them were linemen. The other four were dial-monitors pressed into outside duty. They did, and are doing, yeomen's work with constant queries, 'Where have y'all been?'

734 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:27:03pm

re: #712 outsidephilly

Did Joe Cocker ever 'grow' old?

i still like him.

735 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:27:16pm
736 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:27:36pm

re: #719 WhiteRasta

Oh I know! I specialize in Labor Relations. This is one of those hypocritical things that I throw at the Union to watch them turn red and yell obscenities. It's fun.

737 Omega3  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:27:44pm

re: #711 Sharmuta

Actually- the problem for the creationists isn't that they're incapable of teaching their own children- they want to get their hands on your kids.

That's why it's a problem.

Really? Well, then we better take em out. No f'ing way!

738 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:27:51pm

Pride is to lion as tower is to WHAT?

739 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:28:03pm

re: #730 JacksonTn

He looks like he has been going home at night and curling up in a fetal position next to Michelle and crying his eyes out ...his eyes are swollen almost every day ...

Either that or he's as baked as Michael Phelps.

740 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:28:23pm

re: #722 sngnsgt

LOL! I just used the "like" thing to inject a little sarcasm. The one I really hate is, "You know" after every few words you know?

LOL, indeed!

Actually, I think I had to get the kids outa the "you know" habit a fews years back and now they have picked up this "like" thingy, ya know?

741 swamprat  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:28:24pm

re: #711 Sharmuta
Excellent point.

742 WhiteRasta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:28:25pm

re: #725 reine.de.tout

That hypocrite is quite happy to take the money he makes off that deal to the bank, though.

If he was genuinely upset, he'd give the money he makes from Wal-Mart to Bono or the AFL-CIO.

743 outsidephilly  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:28:35pm

re: #734 nyc redneck

i still like him.

you and me, both . . . , his style is so . . . . , Joe Cocker

744 The Shadow Do  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:28:42pm

re: #703 nyc redneck

why is it so hard for rockers to grow old gracefully.
or at least w/ a little dignity.
this desperate grab for relevance is pathetic.

Dylan, for one, evolved.

745 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:28:50pm

re: #724 outsidephilly

sorry to hear that . . . , allergies?

No. Energies. It's like being in an F-5 tornado.

746 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:28:57pm

re: #720 buzzsawmonkey

Because rock is a teen+ music form, which by its nature allows for little growth. If it grows, or its practitioners grow, it ceases to be rock.

Hence the sad spectre of aged, dessicated, live mummies cavorting upon a stage pretending that they are what they were thirty years earlier.

I wouldn't give a shit if I was the performer. If they want to pay me to see the same shit I was doing 30 years ago, more power to me.

747 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:29:04pm

re: #738 MandyManners

Pride is to lion as tower is to WHAT?

Babel?

748 freetoken  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:29:05pm
749 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:29:07pm

re: #693 Boogberg

Nothing wrong with that halftime show. It kicked ass.

Your upding is paid in full. I give Bruce some credit for staying away from politics.

750 pink freud  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:29:14pm

re: #710 caliredst8r

A telling story.

751 Omega3  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:29:25pm

re: #719 WhiteRasta

No, no, no. Wal-Mart exploits people and keeps them down, dontch'a know?

No self respecting leftist would be seen dead in a Wal-Mart.

I had a sociology prof in college who advocated murdering the Waltons, taking all their money to pay for everyone's college. That, made good sense at the time.

752 Boogberg  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:29:33pm

re: #713 victor_yugo

When the filthy hippie commie started using the mic stand as a substitute for his (much smaller) genitalia, I turned it off and came here.

Don't get out much, do you?

753 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:29:43pm

re: #742 WhiteRasta

Please. The AFL-CIO needs no more cash.

754 lifeofthemind  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:30:34pm

Evening, anything on TV tonight?

755 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:30:35pm

re: #703 nyc redneck

why is it so hard for rockers to grow old gracefully.
or at least w/ a little dignity.
this desperate grab for relevance is pathetic.

Hey, don't be so hard on Rockers; living gracefully is not what they contribute to society, is it?

756 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:30:37pm

re: #738 MandyManners

Pride is to lion as tower is to WHAT?

"Bunch o' towers"

757 Dan G.  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:30:41pm

re: #12 RightKlik

The medieval period was expressly devoid of godlessness and we're doing better than they did. Looks like godlessness isn't causal. Next.

758 Irish Rose  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:30:43pm

Wait a minute... you're trying to say here that dinosaurs and man didn't really coexist?

WTF, Charles?

I saw "One Million Years B.C."... I know the truth, and I ain't buyin' this shit!

/do I?

759 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:30:50pm

OT - not one article on the Iraq election on CNN's front page. I wonder what the problem is?

760 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:31:04pm

well if O is looking bad these days, it certainly isn't because they can't afford fruit.

761 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:31:08pm

re: #754 lifeofthemind

Not really. But there is some great conversation going on up in here!

762 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:31:19pm

Los Yoooooooooooz!

Armed men forced their way into a Caracas synagogue, defacing its administrative offices with anti-Semitic graffiti and vandalizing an interior room where the Torah is kept, officials said.

763 outsidephilly  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:31:28pm

re: #745 MandyManners

No. Energies. It's like being in an F-5 tornado.

. . . , an active child, The Kid is, aye?
Yet, with all that going on your able to communicate so well - you must have an incredible attention span!

764 sngnsgt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:31:40pm

re: #740 A Kiwi Infidel

LOL, indeed!

Actually, I think I had to get the kids outa the "you know" habit a fews years back and now they have picked up this "like" thingy, ya know?

At least it's not like "You understand what I'm saying" you know?

765 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:31:52pm

re: #752 Boogberg

Don't get out much, do you?

What does that have to do with the halftime exhibitionism?

766 Dan G.  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:31:58pm

re: #738 MandyManners

Bricks.

767 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:32:10pm

re: #747 Sharmuta

Babel?

I'm thinking antenna. It fits.

768 WhiteRasta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:32:12pm

re: #751 Omega3

You have since put away childish things.......

769 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:32:28pm

re: #738 MandyManners

group? Group of towers? Gaggle of towers?

770 Dan G.  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:32:36pm

re: #766 Dan G.

Or other building units (2 x 4's; steel stock, etc...).

771 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:32:51pm

re: #764 sngnsgt

At least it's not like "You understand what I'm saying" you know?

As I would respond to my dear wife......."sorry, what was that?"

772 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:32:54pm

re: #756 Occasional Reader

"Bunch o' towers"

hahahhahahahahahahaaa

773 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:32:56pm
774 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:32:59pm

re: #758 Irish Rose

I saw "One Million Years B.C."... I know the truth, and I ain't buyin' this shit!

And the truth is, 1,000,2009 years ago, the chicks were just amazing.

775 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:33:03pm

re: #756 Occasional Reader

"Bunch o' towers"

Oops. Seven lettes.

776 pink freud  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:33:08pm

re: #738 MandyManners

Pride is to lion as tower is to WHAT?

Giraffe.

777 jorline  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:33:10pm

re: #738 MandyManners

Pride is to lion as tower is to WHAT?

Power

778 seekeroftruth  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:33:22pm

re: #610 Charles

Do you think it's a possibility that Palin was not as informed of where the creationism and the Discovery Institute have gone in the past several years? I remember many years ago, for a few years, that creationism was "taught", a 5 minute mention, back when I was in school. At the time it made no impact, other than to notice the teacher rolled his eyes a lot. However, since I have been reading your posts about this, my eyes have been opened. I now realize that this is a whole different thing we are talking about here - the Discovery Institute and islamic involvement. I would never had know any of this without having read your posts. I would guess there are many, many people out there who do not know the whole story about DI and it's agenda.

779 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:33:32pm

re: #755 Daisy

Hey, don't be so hard on Rockers; living gracefully is not what they contribute to society, is it?

well, at a certain point when they don't have the moves, a little dignity comes in handy.

780 Dan G.  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:33:38pm

re: #769 ArmyWife

Like the others, you have it bass-ackwards. Group (Pride) is to unit (Lion) as Group (tower) is to unit(?))

781 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:33:40pm

re: #738 MandyManners

Pride is to lion as tower is to WHAT?

I think you got it backwards:

Lion:pride :: tower : ?

And I think the answer is "constellation".

782 razorbacker  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:33:43pm

I hear the wife hollering, "Git 'im! Git 'im!" so I'd better go see what those dastardly Birds are doing to her precious Steelers.

783 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:33:48pm

re: #754 lifeofthemind

Evening, anything on TV tonight?

I Love Lucy marathon on Hallmark.

784 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:34:12pm

re: #759 Walter L. Newton

OT - not one article on the Iraq election on CNN's front page. I wonder what the problem is?

No shoes thrown at Republicans. Booorrrrring.

785 WhiteRasta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:34:21pm

Goodnight Lizards...

786 swamprat  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:34:39pm

re: #769 ArmyWife

group? Group of towers? Gaggle of towers?

Airport

787 outsidephilly  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:34:41pm

re: #785 WhiteRasta

Goodnight Lizards...

g'night

788 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:34:52pm
789 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:35:00pm

re: #773 buzzsawmonkey

I gave up one career after 25 years because the work had become so repetitive that it bored the hell out of me. The money was not enough to stay with it.

Admittedly, I was not earning at the gaudy level of a rock star. But if someone has any creative spark left, going through the same motions year after year can get pretty damned corrosive.

Well, I need to get to the gaudy level first (gaudy level of a well paid playwright, no, no such animal) before I can agree or disagree with you. Check back with this question in about 10 years.

790 Boogberg  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:35:06pm

re: #765 victor_yugo

What does that have to do with the halftime exhibitionism?

What the fuck do you think a halftime show is for? Somber reflection? Get a grip, dude. :D

791 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:35:11pm

re: #763 outsidephilly

. . . , an active child, The Kid is, aye?
Yet, with all that going on your able to communicate so well - you must have an incredible attention span!

He's eight so he has his own thing going on.

792 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:35:11pm

re: #767 MandyManners

I'm thinking antenna. It fits.


Strength?

793 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:35:25pm

re: #780 Dan G.

Splinter? (wood)? and this isn't my first go round with being backwards on something.


WAIT! Its the universal answer that was discussed earlier! TEQUILA!

794 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:35:33pm

re: #766 Dan G.

Bricks.

Can't be plural.

795 BryanS  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:35:36pm

re: #775 MandyManners

Oops. Seven lettes.

Offices.

Pride of lions, tower of offices?

796 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:35:39pm

re: #785 WhiteRasta

night!

797 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:35:39pm

re: #776 pink freud

Giraffe.

How did your SAT tests turn out? hahahahahahahaaa

798 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:35:46pm

re: #754 lifeofthemind

Evening, anything on TV tonight?

Oh, you're really funny.

799 lifeofthemind  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:35:49pm

re: #738 MandyManners

Pride is to lion as tower is to WHAT?

Administrative Staff Assistant

800 pink freud  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:36:11pm

re: #794 MandyManners

A tower of giraffe, i.e., a herd. Same same.

801 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:36:25pm

re: #790 Boogberg

What the fuck do you think a halftime show is for? Somber reflection? Get a grip, dude. :D

The halftime show is NOT for masturbation by proxy. If I were a parent, I'd be furious at that. Remember Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction"?

How about *you* get a grip?

802 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:36:33pm

Wow, it's amazing how many lonely women post on Craigslists during the Super Bowl. Jackpot.

803 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:36:33pm

re: #769 ArmyWife

group? Group of towers? Gaggle of towers?

One lion is part of a pride so, what is one part of a tower? Seven letters.

804 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:36:53pm

Man I haven't heard House of Pain in ages....

805 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:36:53pm
806 capitalist piglet  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:37:01pm

re: #758 Irish Rose

Wait a minute... you're trying to say here that dinosaurs and man didn't really coexist?

WTF, Charles?

I saw "One Million Years B.C."... I know the truth, and I ain't buyin' this shit!

/do I?

And don't forget Jurassic Park.

807 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:37:11pm

re: #790 Boogberg

The half time show is for viewing Janet Jackson's boob, if I recall...

808 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:37:24pm

re: #801 victor_yugo

The halftime show is NOT for masturbation by proxy. If I were a parent, I'd be furious at that. Remember Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction"?

How about *you* get a grip?

How about not watching it to begin with? It's crap. Won't ever be anything but.

809 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:37:32pm
810 Jim in Virginia  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:37:50pm

re: #751 Omega3

I had a sociology prof in college who advocated murdering the Waltons, taking all their money to pay for everyone's college. That, made good sense at the time.

Maybe Obama can nationalize Bill Gates and Warren Buffett.

811 Dan G.  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:37:56pm

re: #803 MandyManners

See #800: Giraffe

812 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:38:02pm

re: #803 MandyManners

One lion is part of a pride so, what is one part of a tower? Seven letters.


I was thinking "Pride of Lions" = "Tower of strength" but too many letters.

813 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:38:12pm

re: #806 capitalist piglet

And don't forget Jurassic Park.

Yeah, who can forget, "This is Unix! I know this!"?

uh-huh

814 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:38:21pm

re: #810 Jim in Virginia

Maybe Obama can nationalize Bill Gates and Warren Buffett.

Obama can go nationalize himself.

815 outsidephilly  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:38:24pm

re: #791 MandyManners

He's eight so he has his own thing going on.

I teach eight and nine year olds . . . . , that age group can be, hmmmm, shall I say, interesting!

816 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:38:34pm

re: #803 MandyManners

One lion is part of a pride so, what is one part of a tower? Seven letters.

bracket?

817 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:38:44pm

re: #776 pink freud

Giraffe.

I think that's it!

818 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:38:51pm

re: #808 astronmr20

How about not watching it to begin with? It's crap. Won't ever be anything but.

I turned it on for the halftime commercials. I guess that was my first mistake. I should just watch for them on YouTube.

819 pink freud  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:38:54pm

re: #797 debutaunt

How did your SAT tests turn out? hahahahahahahaaa

GRE's. Troop pf giraffes

820 lifeofthemind  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:38:57pm

re: #802 Walter L. Newton

Wow, it's amazing how many lonely women post on Craigslists during the Super Bowl. Jackpot.

Fish meet barrel. Barrel meet grenade.

821 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:38:59pm

re: #816 reine.de.tout

bracket?

Antenna.

822 Dan G.  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:39:13pm

re: #814 astronmr20

For as long as he's been in office already, you don't think that he hasn't already?... at least once?

/

823 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:39:29pm

re: #779 nyc redneck

well, at a certain point when they don't have the moves, a little dignity comes in handy.

:) and me w/out TV. There is some bliss in ignorance I tell you ..

824 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:39:32pm

re: #738 MandyManners

Pride is to lion as tower is to WHAT?

Manhattan?

825 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:39:38pm

re: #821 astronmr20

Antenna.

Do all towers have an antenna?
OR, is the tower itself an antenna?

826 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:39:42pm

re: #778 seekeroftruth

Do you think it's a possibility that Palin was not as informed of where the creationism and the Discovery Institute have gone in the past several years? I remember many years ago, for a few years, that creationism was "taught", a 5 minute mention, back when I was in school. At the time it made no impact, other than to notice the teacher rolled his eyes a lot. However, since I have been reading your posts about this, my eyes have been opened. I now realize that this is a whole different thing we are talking about here - the Discovery Institute and islamic involvement. I would never had know any of this without having read your posts. I would guess there are many, many people out there who do not know the whole story about DI and it's agenda.

I think it's kind of pointless to try to figure out a politician's true motives for anything. But Palin did attend a Pentecostal church, and the Pentecostals are one of the most anti-evolution sects in the US. So it's very likely that she is a hard core creationist.

As far as I know, Rudy Giuliani was the only GOP candidate in this past election who unequivocally stated that he wasn't a creationist.

So of course, he was hounded out of the election.

827 claspur  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:40:12pm

Yea, Bahhaa'hhhh, it's okaa'aay.... *sigh

Rock-on SpringSproing, in everyone elses soup kitchen.... *sigh... *barf

Rich anti-American liberals make me gag, in a major way.

828 freetoken  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:40:18pm

re: #778 seekeroftruth

Palin is a member of a rather devout evangelical (and pentacostal) Christian church, and the daughter of a science teacher.

If she is not aware of the controversy around the teaching of evolution and creationism then that could only mean that she is quite a bit slower than the average person!

Rather, the truth is simply what Charles has implied - Palin talks out of both sides of her mouth (common with politicians) because she knows she has to speak to two opposing constituencies.

829 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:40:22pm

re: #802 Walter L. Newton

Wow, it's amazing how many lonely women post on Craigslists during the Super Bowl. Jackpot.

Hmmm.. I think we have finally stumbled unto your issue with "finding" crazy members of the opposite sex.

Problem solved.

830 lifeofthemind  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:40:32pm

re: #803 MandyManners

One lion is part of a pride so, what is one part of a tower? Seven letters.

Girders

831 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:40:47pm

re: #747 Sharmuta

Babel?

I kid you not, I wrote that then scratched it out as too intellectual.

832 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:40:50pm
833 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:40:51pm
834 Only The Lurker Knows  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:40:55pm

re: #705 Charles

LGF is one of the blogs they offer for the Kindle, but I'm not sure why anyone would pay to use a Kindle to read a blog.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......... Because itris LGF ?

835 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:41:01pm

re: #819 pink freud

GRE's. Troop pf giraffes

I think "tower" of giraffes is what you meant.

836 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:41:10pm

re: #831 Naso Tang

I kid you not, I wrote that then scratched it out as too intellectual.

Plus it's 5 letters, not 7

837 Dan G.  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:41:12pm

re: #826 Charles

And as the recent showdown in Texas showed, its not just Evolution, but all science.

838 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:41:35pm

Speaking of kids, gotta' go rassle The Kid into the bath and scrub the mud off of him. bbiab

839 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:41:51pm

re: #825 reine.de.tout

Do all towers have an antenna?
OR, is the tower itself an antenna?

It depends.

If it's AM radio, then yes the tower itself is part of the antenna system. With FM and other high frequency bands that use line of sight, the antenna is separately attached and the tower holds it up there at a certain elevation and azimuth.

840 debutaunt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:41:52pm

re: #819 pink freud

GRE's. Troop pf giraffes

WOW! That is very interesting!

841 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:42:04pm

re: #803 MandyManners

One lion is part of a pride so, what is one part of a tower? Seven letters.

Rampart

842 pink freud  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:42:12pm

re: #835 Occasional Reader

Yes.

843 Killian Bundy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:42:19pm

re: #759 Walter L. Newton

OT - not one article on the Iraq election on CNN's front page. I wonder what the problem is?

/still trying to decide which way it went

844 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:42:22pm

re: #805 buzzsawmonkey

Well-paid playwright? Start trashing the US and capitalism in a big way, and shovel in four-letter words aplenty.

Once you've made your pile, you--like David Mamet--can recant your previously-expressed views, to a degree.

I've been writing for the stage since 1978, but it's only been the last 10 years that I managed to place myself in some position of name recognition, that being Colorado.

Actually "Rose Garden" sat in the hands of Dramatic Publishing in NYC for two years, they wanted to publish it, but there was one lousy sentence in my rights agreement with William Morris that Dramatic didn't like. Morris agency wouldn't change it, so after everyone sitting on it for two years, that prospect is dead.

It was written and produced 4 years ago, and that adventure put it in limbo for 2 of those years. I'm gonna be dead before one of my works get's through all the hoops that the publishing business wants to put me through.

I thin they are all waiting until I die, and then scarf up the rights for pennies on the dollar.

845 Dan G.  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:42:29pm

Troop of baboons

846 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:42:57pm

re: #819 pink freud

GRE's. Troop pf giraffes

Obviously a moonbat site. Absolutely no listing for a group of Lizards.
/

847 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:43:10pm

re: #762 astronmr20

Los Yoooooooooooz!

Any bets on if they were working on orders from Thugo?

848 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:43:18pm

re: #803 MandyManners

What if we look at pride being a verb rather than a group of lions - Lions are known to be proud, something height or signal related?

849 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:43:22pm

I wish 24 was on instead of these infernal voice-terbating sports announcers.

850 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:43:36pm

"Tower of giraffes". I like it. English is such a fookin' cool language.

851 jaunte  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:43:47pm

re: #819 pink freud

[Link: www.hintsandthings.co.uk...]
Great link.

A confusion of weasels.

A pulchritude of peacocks.

A scourge of mosquitoes.

852 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:43:59pm

re: #844 Walter L. Newton

I've been writing for the stage since 1978, but it's only been the last 10 years that I managed to place myself in some position of name recognition, that being Colorado.
. . .

Walter, have you ever met the author of The Divine Secrets of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood?

853 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:44:00pm

re: #829 astronmr20

Hmmm.. I think we have finally stumbled unto your issue with "finding" crazy members of the opposite sex.

Problem solved.

The last 5 of 5 relationships since I got divorced 5 years ago have been from Craigslist. It's really a lot of fun doing it that way.

854 Boogberg  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:44:09pm

re: #801 victor_yugo

The halftime show is NOT for masturbation by proxy. If I were a parent, I'd be furious at that. Remember Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction"?

How about *you* get a grip?

Do you smash Elvis "the pelvis" Presley records on sight as well? Again, get a grip.

855 Only The Lurker Knows  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:44:13pm

re: #834 Bubblehead II

LGF is one of the blogs they offer for the Kindle, but I'm not sure why anyone would pay to use a Kindle to read a blog.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......... Because itris LGF ?

856 DistantThunder  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:44:16pm

re: #778 seekeroftruth

Do you think it's a possibility that Palin was not as informed of where the creationism and the Discovery Institute have gone in the past several years? I remember many years ago, for a few years, that creationism was "taught", a 5 minute mention, back when I was in school. At the time it made no impact, other than to notice the teacher rolled his eyes a lot. However, since I have been reading your posts about this, my eyes have been opened. I now realize that this is a whole different thing we are talking about here - the Discovery Institute and islamic involvement. I would never had know any of this without having read your posts. I would guess there are many, many people out there who do not know the whole story about DI and it's agenda.

I had no idea how far the movement had come in terms of it's agenda. I doubt most people who are not intimately involved in it, do.

857 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:44:17pm

re: #847 jcm

Any bets on if they were working on orders from Thugo?

Wouldn't put it past him.

Give me 5 minutes with that pinata-sized head of his...

858 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:44:22pm

re: #851 jaunte

[Link: www.hintsandthings.co.uk...]
Great link.

A confusion of weasels.

A pulchritude of peacocks.

A scourge of mosquitoes.

And of course, a murder of crows.

859 jaunte  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:44:22pm

re: #846 Slumbering Behemoth

A scrabble of lizards.

860 Truck Monkey  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:44:25pm

re: #718 MandyManners

I love it too but, Beagles and The Kid don't mix.

Beagles and anything that can be chewed do not mix.

861 Omega3  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:44:34pm

re: #838 MandyManners

Speaking of kids, gotta' go rassle The Kid into the bath and scrub the mud off of him. bbiab

take your time!

862 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:44:42pm

re: #828 freetoken

Palin is a member of a rather devout evangelical (and pentacostal) Christian church, and the daughter of a science teacher.

Unfortunately, being the daughter of a science teacher does not necessarily mean she wasn't indoctrinated in creationism.

863 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:44:46pm

re: #853 Walter L. Newton

The last 5 of 5 relationships since I got divorced 5 years ago have been from Craigslist. It's really a lot of fun doing it that way.

Brother we need to talk.

864 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:44:50pm

re: #819 pink freud

GRE's. Troop pf giraffes

From that link:

A MOB of cattle

The Cudfather?

865 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:44:57pm

Lion is to Pride as what is to Tower, or Tower is to what?

And don't forget that lions are very proud.

866 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:45:02pm

re: #811 Dan G.

A group of giraffes is called a tower. Who knew?

[Link: www.myuniversalfacts.com...]

867 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:45:04pm

re: #852 reine.de.tout

Walter, have you ever met the author of The Divine Secrets of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood?

No, is she single?

868 jaunte  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:45:35pm

re: #864 Occasional Reader

"Leave the cud; take the methane."

869 solomonpanting  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:45:49pm

re: #851 jaunte

[Link: www.hintsandthings.co.uk...]
Great link.

A confusion of weasels.

A pulchritude of peacocks.

A scourge of mosquitoes.

A crash of rhinoceroses.

An ostentation of peacocks.

870 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:45:51pm

re: #853 Walter L. Newton

Is your girlfriend you suffered the car crash out of the picture? And ok, I hope?

871 pink freud  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:46:07pm

re: #858 victor_yugo

And of course, a murder of crows.

I wonder if Alfred Hitchcock had anything to do with that designation.

872 SurferDoc  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:46:12pm

re: #759 Walter L. Newton

OT - not one article on the Iraq election on CNN's front page. I wonder what the problem is?

No bombings?

873 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:46:14pm

re: #25 RightKlik

I never said Darwin was godless. I said the ideas that he helped to create were godless.

I guess all ideas are godless, by that kind of reasoning.

874 Moonbat Serenade  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:46:15pm

A group of Giraffes is called a tower.

875 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:46:17pm

re: #869 solomonpanting

an intrusion of cock roaches. My favorite thus far,

876 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:46:25pm

re: #870 ArmyWife

Is your girlfriend you suffered the car crash out of the picture? And ok, I hope?

Both. Well, she has a broken back, but she will recover.

877 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:46:25pm
878 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:46:29pm

re: #851 jaunte

[Link: www.hintsandthings.co.uk...]
Great link.

A confusion of weasels.

A pulchritude of peacocks.

A scourge of mosquitoes.

But I'm becoming a little suspicious:

SASQUATCH - A PUNGENT of sasquatch.

879 seekeroftruth  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:46:42pm

re: #826 Charles

Thanks Charles. I hope the information you are posting here gets spread far and wide.

880 lifeofthemind  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:46:43pm

re: #845 Dan G.

Troop of baboons

1) A Senate
2) A Union

881 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:47:08pm

re: #859 jaunte

A scrabble of lizards.

I like it. Sounds cool.

They do have a listing for rattle snakes: a RHUMBA of rattlesnakes.

882 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:47:17pm

re: #852 reine.de.tout

Walter, have you ever met the author of The Divine Secrets of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood?

No, really, why do you ask?

883 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:47:24pm
884 swamprat  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:47:25pm

re: #874 Moonbat Serenade

A group of Giraffes is called a tower.

And a "journey".

885 DistantThunder  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:47:27pm

A throng of lizards
A hubub of lizards

I'm making these up....

A quantum of lizards

886 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:47:31pm

re: #867 Walter L. Newton

No, is she single?

Not now, that I know of.

She is an actress and playwright - I thought perhaps you may have met up with her at some point.

She and I grew up in the same 'hood, in school together from kindergarten to graduation.

887 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:47:52pm
A KINDLE, LITTER OR INTRIGUE (for kittens)

But would that Kindle have LGF?

888 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:48:01pm

re: #814 astronmr20

Obama can go nationalize himself.

He has, Oscar, he has.

889 jaunte  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:48:17pm
AN EXALTATION OF LARKS (Ultimate Edition) is the culmination of more than two decades of Lipton's research of "nouns of multitude," which he prefers to call "terms of venery."

Many of these terms are commonplace: plague of locusts, pride of lions, litter of pups. Imagine, though, hearing these expressions for the first time. Lipton invites us to "sharpen our senses by restoring the magic to the mundane."

Lipton traced a number of these terms back to the 1400s, specifically to THE BOOK OF ST. ALBANS, printed in 1486. In addition to today's ordinary terms, he discovered some that had a fresh sound, precisely because they had not made the 500-year journey to our modern era.

Lipton identifies six sources of inspiration for the terms. He lists these "Families" with the following examples:

1. Onomatopoeia: a murmuration of starlings, a gaggle of geese.

2. Characteristic (by far the largest Family): a leap of leopards, a skulk of foxes.

3. Appearance: a knot of toads, a parliament of owls.

4. Habitat: a shoal of bass, a nest of rabbits.

5. Comment (pro or con depending on viewpoint): a richness of martens, a cowardice of curs.

6. Error (in transcription or printing; sometimes preserved for centuries): "school" of fish was originally intended to be "shoal."


[Link: www.amazon.com...]

890 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:48:27pm

re: #884 swamprat

And a "journey".

Don't stop believin' in giraffes.

891 Only The Lurker Knows  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:48:31pm

Lost three. Charles have you got the bal?

Iron Fstrs Rule

892 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:48:45pm

re: #812 A Kiwi Infidel

I was thinking "Pride of Lions" = "Tower of strength" but too many letters.

Complex of Towers?

893 outsidephilly  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:48:45pm

bbl

894 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:48:53pm

re: #885 DistantThunder

A throng of lizards
A hubub of lizards

I'm making these up....

A quantum of lizards

A blog of lizards.

895 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:49:10pm
896 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:49:33pm

re: #874 Moonbat Serenade

A group of Giraffes is called a tower.

Damn. I didn't know that, but strangely enough a picture of giraffes did cross my mind, but since I thought I knew everything, I thought that would be a stupid answer.

897 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:49:42pm

re: #890 Occasional Reader

Don't stop believin' in giraffes.

Epic.

Win.


Pot of the evening right here, folks.

898 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:49:56pm

re: #885 DistantThunder

A throng of lizards
A hubub of lizards

I'm making these up....

A quantum of lizards

a leaping of lizards?

899 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:49:59pm

re: #895 buzzsawmonkey

Somebody who is web-savvy and has a genius for anonymity should do a "lolcats" site for jihadi pix.

"I can haz carswarm," or something of the sort.

Lol Palis?

900 Moonbat Serenade  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:50:23pm

[Link: thealmightyguru.com...] lists a bunch. They have a group of lizards as a "lounge".

901 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:50:52pm

re: #886 reine.de.tout

Not now, that I know of.

She is an actress and playwright - I thought perhaps you may have met up with her at some point.

She and I grew up in the same 'hood, in school together from kindergarten to graduation.

To be honest though, I don't "market" myself. I don't know, writing for me is so personal, that I don't want to prostitute myself with too much sucking up and stuff. It's sort of, if it's good enough, some one will find it and buy it.

I guess my fear is always that I'll get into some position that I have to start hacking out something because someone says I have to write something.

If I spend the rest of my life as a known Colorado playwright, then that's ok.

902 solomonpanting  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:51:15pm

re: #875 ArmyWife

an intrusion of cock roaches. My favorite thus far,

Also, the most disgusting.
:-(

903 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:51:30pm

My question: how did LGF members come to be known as lizards?

904 lifeofthemind  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:51:31pm

re: #801 victor_yugo

The halftime show is NOT for masturbation by proxy. If I were a parent, I'd be furious at that. Remember Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction"?

How about *you* get a grip?


Absolutely that lazy masturbation by proxy vice has to be stopped. You go right out there and show them how to do it properly

Once I was walking the beastie when he was just a nervous pup and he squatted across the street from the High School. HS jerks are used to having the fool's freedom of thinking adults are afraid to correct them. Comes from spending to much time locked up with teachers. So when one pointed and laughed I spoke very clearly and calmly and asked if he would care to come over and show my friend how to do it better. He moved off fast.

905 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:51:41pm

re: #895 buzzsawmonkey

Somebody who is web-savvy and has a genius for anonymity should do a "lolcats" site for jihadi pix.

"I can haz carswarm," or something of the sort.

Actually I think you are on to something.

Technically you can use any photo in the LolCat builder here: [Link: mine.icanhascheezburger.com...]

However, it may just be too tragic.


Try it and see! We can actually share them with each other without trying to submit them to the site.

906 Karridine  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:51:50pm

re: #885 DistantThunder

A throng of lizards
A hubbub of lizards

I'm making these up....

A quantum of lizards

a LEAPIN' of Lizards...

"Leapin' lizards, Daddy Gotrox, they're gutting those Koslings!"

907 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:51:55pm

A babel of creationists?

908 seekeroftruth  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:52:08pm

re: #856 DistantThunder

I had no idea how far the movement had come in terms of it's agenda. I doubt most people who are not intimately involved in it, do.


I didn't either until I started reading Charles's information. At first I thought he was talking about the silly stuff I saw in school. Only because he kept posting on the topic did I realize that this is a whole different ball game.

909 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:52:12pm

re: #903 gclaghorn

My question: how did LGF members come to be known as lizards?

Resources. Info Bar. Left-hand side.

910 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:52:17pm
911 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:52:33pm

re: #895 buzzsawmonkey

Somebody who is web-savvy and has a genius for anonymity should do a "lolcats" site for jihadi pix.

"I can haz carswarm," or something of the sort.

I take it you've never seen this, then?

912 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:53:11pm

re: #897 astronmr20

Pot or pat of the evening? Walter, will you call it?

913 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:53:35pm
914 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:53:41pm

re: #912 ArmyWife

Pot or pat of the evening? Walter, will you call it?

Put?

915 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:54:03pm

re: #903 gclaghorn

My question: how did LGF members come to be known as lizards?

[deep breath]

Me. That's how.

Many moons ago, I linked to a zany conspiracy theory site that posited extraterrestrial reptilians living underneath Denver International Airport. This somehow transmogrified on these pages into the idea that Charles was one of them. Hence, "lizards".

916 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:54:23pm

re: #826 Charles

I think it's kind of pointless to try to figure out a politician's true motives for anything. But Palin did attend a Pentecostal church, and the Pentecostals are one of the most anti-evolution sects in the US. So I think it's very likely that she is a hard core creationist.

As far as I know, Rudy Giuliani was the only GOP candidate in this past election who unequivocally stated that he wasn't a creationist.

So of course, he was hounded out of the election.

As it stands, you guys may be limiting your pool of great candidates by all the litmus tests they must pass to keep the religious right happy. Of course, a rare, pro life Democrat would would be in the same boat with his base in my opinion.

917 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:54:54pm

re: #913 buzzsawmonkey

Check post #911.

918 Truck Monkey  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:54:57pm

re: #807 ArmyWife

The half time show is for viewing Janet Jackson's boob, if I recall...

And what a sad looking boob it was.

919 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:54:58pm

re: #915 Occasional Reader

[deep breath]

Me. That's how.

Many moons ago, I linked to a zany conspiracy theory site that posited extraterrestrial reptilians living underneath Denver International Airport. This somehow transmogrified on these pages into the idea that Charles was one of them. Hence, "lizards".

LOL.

920 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:55:09pm
921 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:55:09pm

re: #889 jaunte

Wonderful link jaunte, thanks. I just ordered one of 2 (I hope!) remaining, used copies.

922 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:55:14pm

re: #916 avanti

You guys who guys, what are you babbling about?

923 Miss Trixie  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:55:21pm

Evening, lizards! :D

How about "a slobber of puppies" and "a knit of kittens"?

924 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:55:22pm

re: #854 Boogberg

Do you smash Elvis "the pelvis" Presley records on sight as well? Again, get a grip.

Dude, what the hell is wrong with you? You are attributing to me things that you can only hope I would do, so you can set up your straw man and knock it down. Elvis the pelvis was doing this thing before I was born, no I didn't grow up watching that, and I'm glad my parents had the good sense to keep an eye on what TV shows I watched.

What Springsteen did this evening was inexcusable for a concert, and a hundred-fold more so for something broadcast world-wide. It's right down there with Whoopi Goldberg giving the microphone a blowjob at the Oscars.

And then we carp and complain about nations here and there around the world, rating our TV shows as "unsuitable for children", all in the name of Free Speech? Give me a break. Free speech is the right to disagree with the government, without being thrown in jail for it. It is not the right of Bruce Springsteen to put on that kind of sexual display on public airwaves (and yes, the same goes for the Dallas cheerleaders).

925 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:55:41pm
926 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:55:48pm

re: #915 Occasional Reader

[deep breath]

Me. That's how.

Many moons ago, I linked to a zany conspiracy theory site that posited extraterrestrial reptilians living underneath Denver International Airport. This somehow transmogrified on these pages into the idea that Charles was one of them. Hence, "lizards".

Which become immortalized as the TERRIBLE SECRET OF LFG

927 lifeofthemind  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:56:01pm

So what happens when the tower of giraffes defaults on their sub-prime? Do they become a dispossession of deadbeats? OOT The zoos botanical gardens and museums in NY are against the wall.

928 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:56:25pm

re: #919 gclaghorn

LOL.

Actually, I'm completely serious.

929 astronmr20  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:57:00pm

re: #918 Truck Monkey

And what a sad looking boob it was.

Who hasn't seen an arieola?

930 Scion9  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:57:04pm

re: #926 jcm

The hippy on a leash is the best part.

931 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:57:09pm

re: #915 Occasional Reader

[deep breath]

Me. That's how.

Many moons ago, I linked to a zany conspiracy theory site that posited extraterrestrial reptilians living underneath Denver International Airport. This somehow transmogrified on these pages into the idea that Charles was one of them. Hence, "lizards".

And we have been looking for your actual physical location for a number of years. Not cool, telling the whole world about us, not cool.

Do you think it's some friggin co-inky-dink that I live in Golden, Colorado. The main tunnel traverses right under my apartment. You've heard me mention that I am in a garden apartment. Ever wonder why? Because I like living in a cave?

Think about it.
/

932 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:57:23pm

re: #916 avanti

As it stands, you guys may be limiting your pool of great candidates by all the litmus tests they must pass to keep the religious right happy. Of course, a rare, pro life Democrat would would be in the same boat with his base in my opinion.

Who is "you guys?"

933 Miss Trixie  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:57:41pm

re: #903 gclaghorn

My question: how did LGF members come to be known as lizards?

*cackles manaically*

Wait 'til you find out! :D

934 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:57:59pm

re: #928 Occasional Reader

Actually, I'm completely serious.

I know. It just made me laugh.

935 Steve Rogers  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:57:59pm

re: #545 MandyManners

Cite, please.



[Link: letmegooglethatforyou.com...]

The volatile issue of teaching creation science in public schools popped up in the Alaska governor's race this week when Republican Sarah Palin said she thinks creationism should be taught alongside evolution in the state's public classrooms.

Palin was answering a question from the moderator near the conclusion of Wednesday night's televised debate on KAKM Channel 7 when she said, "Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."

Source: [Link: www.adn.com...]

BTW, no fair saying that it doesn't count because it was during a debate for Governor and not President. She said it. Period.

936 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:58:46pm

re: #915 Occasional Reader

And I thought it was whatshisname = the Moonbat at Vanity Fair who had come up w// our honorific! This is much much better.

937 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:59:14pm

re: #931 Walter L. Newton

Not to mention my last sojourn to Denver and the "airport"; immediately following, my karma boosted and lizard cred was solidified.

/oops, was I supposed to talk about that?

938 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:59:20pm

re: #920 buzzsawmonkey

Heh. No, I hadn't.

Oh goody, I love spreadin' funny. The guy who owns that site isn't anonymous, though.

939 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:59:52pm

re: #932 Charles

Who is "you guys?"


"What do you mean, 'you people'?"

-Tropic Thunder

940 solomonpanting  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 5:59:54pm

re: #921 Daisy

You can get a poster here.

Scroll down

941 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:00:21pm

re: #922 itellu3times

You guys who guys, what are you babbling about?

Sorry, the GOP guys. Sadly, we have only two real choices.

942 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:00:34pm

re: #937 ArmyWife

Not to mention my last sojourn to Denver and the "airport"; immediately following, my karma boosted and lizard cred was solidified.

/oops, was I supposed to talk about that?

Er, no. I will pass this on to lobo91 when I see him Tuesday for lunch.

943 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:00:43pm

BTW, the full video I linked to at #516 is fascinating. I think their Adnan Oktar's claim that Islam has conquered Europe is a little premature I think he is making gains.

944 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:00:55pm

re: #936 Daisy

And I thought it was whatshisname = the Moonbat at Vanity Fair who had come up w// our honorific! This is much much better.

To the best of my knowledge, it all ties back to the DIA reptilian aliens. Charles and/or Stinky, correct me if I'm wrong.

945 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:00:56pm

re: #933 Miss Trixie

*cackles manaically*

Wait 'til you find out! :D

Dun dun dun....

:)

946 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:01:30pm

re: #939 Occasional Reader

"What do you mean, 'you people'?"

-Tropic Thunder

"You know, you people."

-H. Ross Perot

947 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:01:36pm

re: #942 Walter L. Newton

eeekkk!

948 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:01:54pm

re: #944 Occasional Reader

To the best of my knowledge, it all ties back to the DIA reptilian aliens. Charles and/or Stinky, correct me if I'm wrong.

If you don't stop talking about us, we'll correct you forever.
/

949 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:01:57pm

re: #941 avanti

You guys who guys, what are you babbling about?

Sorry, the GOP guys. Sadly, we have only two real choices.

I still don't know what you're talking about, and I suggest you don't, either.

950 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:02:12pm

re: #944 Occasional Reader

To the best of my knowledge, it all ties back to the DIA reptilian aliens. Charles and/or Stinky, correct me if I'm wrong.

Not wrong. Wolcott is too busy consulting his thesaurus to come up with something like that.

951 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:02:13pm

re: #943 Killgore Trout

BTW, the full video I linked to at #516 is fascinating. I think their Adnan Oktar's claim that Islam has conquered Europe is a little premature I think he is making gains.

He is:

Half of Britons do not believe in evolution, survey finds

952 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:02:19pm

re: #946 victor_yugo

"You know, you people."

-H. Ross Perot

I LIKED Ross, until I got to know him better.

953 sngnsgt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:02:38pm

re: #929 astronmr20

Who hasn't seen an arieola?

From the direction Janet's were pointing, I'm sure she hasn't seen them in a while.

954 lifeofthemind  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:03:01pm

re: #932 Charles

Who is "you guys?"

Sounds like the voice from Brooklyn "Youse guys."

We hang out at Tirty terd un tird.

955 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:03:17pm

YESSSS! I'M NOT WRONG!

I'm somebody now!

This is exactly the kind of free publicity I've been waiting for.

956 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:03:45pm

re: #938 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh goody, I love spreadin' funny. The guy who owns that site isn't anonymous, though.

Pfft! Wrong link.

PIMF.

957 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:03:55pm

re: #940 solomonpanting

You can get a poster here.

Scroll down

Now that could be just the thing for some of my nieces and nephews. Thanks!

958 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:04:11pm

re: #954 lifeofthemind

Sounds like the voice from Brooklyn "Youse guys."

We hang out at Tirty terd un tird.

"Youse" actually solves the problem of English not having a second-person form of "you" (as does "y'all"). We need to convene some sort of convention to adopt one or both forms.

959 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:04:27pm

re: #955 Occasional Reader

YESSSS! I'M NOT WRONG!

I'm somebody now!

This is exactly the kind of free publicity I've been waiting for.

I've been demonstrating shameless self promotion for years here. I would have thought you would have learned something my now.

960 lifeofthemind  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:04:27pm

re: #951 Sharmuta

He is:

Half of Britons do not believe in evolution, survey finds

Other half are waiting for it arrive?

961 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:04:39pm

re: #956 Slumbering Behemoth

Think about the possibilities for linking to the wrong site...oh the embarrassing things that could happen.

I don't think I'm getting enough sleep.

962 Miss Trixie  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:04:43pm

Arrgghh! This is driving me 'round the bend. Whenever I click on a lizard's avatar, I'm constantly redirected to the main page. I've shut down and rebooted to no avail.

Is it Vista?

/bloody frustrating and I can't upschwingadingy either ... grrrrrrr.

963 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:05:00pm

re: #958 Occasional Reader

y'all. Done.

964 pink freud  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:05:25pm

re: #963 ArmyWife

y'all. Done.

Seconded.

965 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:05:36pm

re: #963 ArmyWife

y'all. Done.

Compromise: Youse all.

966 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:05:55pm

Me thinks some of these ladies posting on Craigslist's personals today are a little drunk, or crazy, or both.

967 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:06:15pm

re: #965 Occasional Reader

Compromise? We are not compromising, cowboy.

968 lifeofthemind  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:06:25pm

re: #958 Occasional Reader

"Youse" actually solves the problem of English not having a second-person form of "you" (as does "y'all"). We need to convene some sort of convention to adopt one or both forms.

Thee has a point.

969 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:06:31pm

re: #944 Occasional Reader

To the best of my knowledge, it all ties back to the DIA reptilian aliens. Charles and/or Stinky, correct me if I'm wrong.

Occasional Reader, I much prefer that it's you instead of what's his name!

970 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:06:31pm

re: #966 Walter L. Newton

Me thinks some of these ladies posting on Craigslist's personals today are a little drunk, or crazy, or both.

Or men.

971 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:06:37pm

re: #949 itellu3times

I still don't know what you're talking about, and I suggest you don't, either.

OK, I'll put it in a new sentence. The GOP guys are limiting their choices of great candidates because of the litmus tests needed to the please the religious right. Pro creationism for example. If I'm wrong, I'm wiling to be corrected.

972 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:06:40pm

re: #963 ArmyWife

y'all. Done.

I think only the goddess is qualified to make that call.
;-)

973 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:06:49pm

re: #951 Sharmuta

I don't completely trust that survey. Just a few years ago it was around 70% for evolution. If those findings are accurate this is happening very fast.

974 twincitiesgirl  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:06:50pm

Say what!?
Porn claims endanger science foundation funds

/how about checking out the corruption at ACORN instead?

Taxpayer Survey: Who do you prefer--a corrupt politician or a stupid one?

975 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:07:10pm

re: #962 Miss Trixie

Arrgghh! This is driving me 'round the bend. Whenever I click on a lizard's avatar, I'm constantly redirected to the main page. I've shut down and rebooted to no avail.

Is it Vista?

/bloody frustrating and I can't upschwingadingy either ... grrrrrrr.

Are you using EI?

976 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:07:19pm

re: #961 ArmyWife

Think about the possibilities for linking to the wrong site...oh the embarrassing things that could happen.

I don't think I'm getting enough sleep.

Precisely why I don't surf pr0n and read LGF at the same time.

977 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:07:23pm

re: #966 Walter L. Newton

I need to reinforce the earlier comment that trolling for chicks on craigslist might not be conducive to normal, healthy relationships. Refrigerators, yes. women? No.

978 lifeofthemind  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:07:59pm

re: #962 Miss Trixie


/bloody frustrating and I can't upschwingadingy either ... grrrrrrr.

Thou wishest to upschwing my dingy or dingy my upschwing?

979 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:08:01pm

re: #973 Killgore Trout

I wonder how many surveyed were muslims.

980 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:08:11pm

re: #974 twincitiesgirl

Say what!?
Porn claims endanger science foundation funds

/how about checking out the corruption at ACORN instead?

Taxpayer Survey: Who do you prefer--a corrupt politician or a stupid one?

Am I the only one who is neither surprised nor shocked at the idea of scientists surfing for porn?

(I know some scientists, see, and, well...)

981 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:08:19pm

re: #966 Walter L. Newton

Me thinks some of these ladies posting on Craigslist's personals today are a little drunk, or crazy, or both.

Well now Walter, you've had relationships w/5 of them so far. What's your official word on the subject?

982 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:08:21pm
983 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:08:42pm

re: #974 twincitiesgirl

Taxpayer Survey: Who do you prefer--a corrupt politician or a stupid one?

False dichotomy.

984 jorline  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:09:36pm

Jack just got hit by the Obama bus, but he should be ok...he's didn't go under the bus.

985 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:09:56pm

re: #982 ploome hineni

the other half are eating curry

now, i'm hungry. maybe i'll run around the corner.

986 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:10:04pm
987 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:10:38pm

re: #981 Daisy

Well now Walter, you've had relationships w/5 of them so far. What's your official word on the subject?

Only one was crazy. The other 4 were healthy relationships, which moved on, not for any big issues reasons. They just weren't as interested in long term as I was.

988 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:10:38pm

re: #971 avanti

OK, I'll put it in a new sentence. The GOP guys are limiting their choices of great candidates because of the litmus tests needed to the please the religious right. Pro creationism for example. If I'm wrong, I'm wiling to be corrected.

Well, I supposed you might be going there, but you'd have a hard time finding any real evidence for any litmus test on anything at all, given the most recent nominee.

You really must stop believing what you read in the New York Times.

989 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:10:45pm

The Cardinals are really sucking donkey balls.

990 Miss Trixie  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:10:51pm

re: #975 Walter L. Newton

Are you using EI?

No, I'm running Vista. I' have the same problem at the office where I'm running XP.

Feh.

991 freetoken  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:11:02pm

re: #943 Killgore Trout

Oktar has faith.

992 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:11:12pm

re: #989 Occasional Reader

Is that what is hindering their playing of football this evening?

993 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:11:20pm
994 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:11:32pm

re: #989 Occasional Reader

The Cardinals are really sucking donkey balls.

Why the Catholic bashing?
/;-P

995 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:11:35pm

re: #986 ploome hineni

can't we have both?

:P

Precisely.

It isn't that we have to choose between stupidity and corruption. We can also choose neither, or we can choose both.

Last November, we chose both.

996 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:11:36pm

re: #990 Miss Trixie

No, I'm running Vista. I' have the same problem at the office where I'm running XP.

Feh.

What browser?

997 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:11:37pm

re: #989 Occasional Reader

The Cardinals are really sucking donkey balls.

No, the Steelers are just that good. But I am 10 minutes behind on Tivo.

998 Miss Trixie  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:11:43pm

re: #978 lifeofthemind

Thou wishest to upschwing my dingy or dingy my upschwing?

Smartypants!

999 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:12:19pm

re: #989 Occasional Reader

The Cardinals are really sucking donkey balls.

Um, uh, can't find anywhere to go with that metaphor that I'd post during family hours.

1000 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:12:30pm

1000?

1001 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:12:35pm

YES!

1002 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:12:52pm
1003 Killian Bundy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:13:03pm

re: #989 Occasional Reader

The Cardinals are really sucking donkey balls.

/I'd swear, Obama is back there in the White House, yucking it up, pushing the penalty button on the Cardinals

1004 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:13:18pm

re: #1002 ploome hineni

didn't you say it was their turn?

Only because of Williamson(sp?).

1005 Occasional Reader  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:13:19pm

re: #997 Dark_Falcon

No, the Steelers are just that good. But I am 10 minutes behind on Tivo.

Ah, so you haven't seen the part yet where the meteorite hits the stadium and kills everyone.

It's quite unexpected.

1006 sngnsgt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:13:33pm

re: #954 lifeofthemind

Sounds like the voice from Brooklyn "Youse guys."

We hang out at Tirty terd un tird.

When I was just a kid, my parents owned a home in NW PA on 33rd St. The house number was 333.

To hear a local say it was, "Tree-tirty-tree, thoity-thoid street. Or, Tree-thoity-tree, tirty-terd." I'm sure yuns' know what I'm talking about. ;-)

1007 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:13:35pm

re: #971 avanti

OK, I'll put it in a new sentence. The GOP guys are limiting their choices of great candidates because of the litmus tests needed to the please the religious right. Pro creationism for example. If I'm wrong, I'm wiling to be corrected.

On the other hand, they just picked a chairman for the RNC who seems to be pretty moderate on social issues. (And it's pissing off the social cons already.)

1008 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:14:07pm

re: #987 Walter L. Newton

Only one was crazy. The other 4 were healthy relationships, which moved on, not for any big issues reasons. They just weren't as interested in long term as I was.

So this crowd tonight could be a Super Bowl phenomena. I was once advised to treat a date like an interview. It was good advice. My husband is a serious keeper - passed the interview w/flying colors :)

1009 Steffan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:14:07pm

In the WSJ this weekend, if you haven't seen it, Arthur Herman lays out chapter and verse why Jimmy Carter was the Worst President Ever.

He also warns that Obama's making the same mistakes Carter made.
A sample:

Mr. Carter's attempt to soften America's profile in the world had left the United States in the most perilous position it had known since the Korean War. Soaring oil prices, especially after the fall of the shah, had made a shambles of the global economic order. New Soviet proxies held power in nearly a dozen states in East Asia, Africa, the Middle East (including Afghanistan and South Yemen) and Latin America. More than 85,000 Soviet troops occupied Afghanistan; 35,000 Cuban troops were in Africa. Russian and Cuban military advisers operated in countries like Ethiopia, South Yemen, Mozambique and Angola with impunity. Soviet SS-20 missiles had been installed specifically to threaten Western Europe and intimidate the NATO alliance.

Even better:

The one place where Carter and his defenders could point to success was with the Camp David accord between Egypt and Israel in September 1978. But the exception was only apparent, and in any case proved the rule. For a bilateral Israel-Egypt agreement was not something Mr. Carter had sought or welcomed. Quite the contrary: his Middle East policy rested on achieving a "comprehensive" settlement with all parties to the Arab-Israel conflict, and with the active participation of the same Soviet Union whose forces had only recently been kicked out of Egypt by President Anwar Sadat. The visit of Sadat to Israel in November 1977 thus came as an unpleasant surprise.

Again, go read the whole thing. It's a long essay, but it's definitely worth reading.

1010 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:14:08pm

re: #993 ploome hineni

I may join you

/what's the topic here?

indian food lol,
maybe thai

1011 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:14:18pm

Obama's been talking with Iran for MONTHS?

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

1012 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:14:21pm
1013 claspur  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:14:23pm

re: #862 Charles

Unfortunately, being the daughter of a science teacher does not necessarily mean she wasn't indoctrinated in creationism.


Chas.... at least science teachers' daughters like to experiment more than clergical daughters like to.... less work involved. :o)

*This Pooperbowl is beyond predictable.... *sigh

1014 jorline  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:14:43pm

re: #989 Occasional Reader

The Cardinals are really sucking donkey balls.

Win an election...they want all the pleasures of life.

1015 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:14:57pm

re: #1007 Charles

On the other hand, they just picked a chairman for the RNC who seems to be pretty moderate on social issues. (And it's pissing off the social cons already.)

I'm surprised that RedState is actually excited about Steele because that's a very SoCon site.

1016 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:15:18pm

re: #958 Occasional Reader

"Youse" actually solves the problem of English not having a second-person form of "you" (as does "y'all"). We need to convene some sort of convention to adopt one or both forms.

I am not giving up my "ya'll".

No convention needed.

1017 Miss Trixie  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:15:25pm

re: #996 gclaghorn

What browser?

I'm supposed to know that? I'm so technologically-challenged to this intertubbie thing that I don't know.

*sigh*

1018 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:15:44pm

re: #977 ArmyWife

I need to reinforce the earlier comment that trolling for chicks on craigslist might not be conducive to normal, healthy relationships. Refrigerators, yes. women? No.

Only 1 of the 5 were "crazy." I'm 56, I don't do bars, on most of the nights that regular people are going out, I'm working, I don't have oodles of bucks for paid dating services and I don't consider myself senior citizen enough to start hitting up the senior groups.

And, I am much more "active" than a lot of other men my age. A lot of the single woman I have met are at the settle down with the pets mode. That's fine, but I'm interested in to much. And my mind is on 20 subjects at a time. I'm just not that normal.

So, I have found Craigslist to be a interesting alternative to other means of meeting people.

1019 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:15:44pm

re: #951 Sharmuta

He is:

Half of Britons do not believe in evolution, survey finds


The other half (and growing rapidly) are immigrants who do.

1020 lifeofthemind  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:16:06pm

re: #1006 sngnsgt


To hear a local say it was, "Tree-tirty-tree, thoity-thoid street. Or, Tree-thoity-tree, tirty-terd." I'm sure yuns' know what I'm talking about. ;-)

Older Sibling Sadism would have been feeding you peanut butter and crackers and sending you out to find help to get home.

1021 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:16:15pm

re: #990 Miss Trixie

No, I'm running Vista. I' have the same problem at the office where I'm running XP.

Feh.

No, your browser, is it Internet Explorer, which is what comes with Vista?

1022 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:16:20pm

re: #1010 nyc redneck

indian food lol,
maybe thai

Lamb Vindaloo, mmmmmmmmm
Now I'm hungry.

1023 BryanS  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:16:33pm

re: #915 Occasional Reader

[deep breath]

Me. That's how.

Many moons ago, I linked to a zany conspiracy theory site that posited extraterrestrial reptilians living underneath Denver International Airport. This somehow transmogrified on these pages into the idea that Charles was one of them. Hence, "lizards".

Your reference to conspiracies happened the same time I was watching an episode of South Park making fun of 911 truthers.

Couple good clips here and here

1024 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:16:38pm

re: #988 itellu3times

Well, I supposed you might be going there, but you'd have a hard time finding any real evidence for any litmus test on anything at all, given the most recent nominee.

You really must stop believing what you read in the New York Times.

OK,that's why I'm here to learn. Actually, I spend too much time on the American Family Association web site, reading rants about the culture war, and that colors my opinion of what a conservative is.

1025 Boogberg  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:16:41pm

re: #924 victor_yugo

Dude, what the hell is wrong with you? You are attributing to me things that you can only hope I would do, so you can set up your straw man and knock it down. Elvis the pelvis was doing this thing before I was born, no I didn't grow up watching that, and I'm glad my parents had the good sense to keep an eye on what TV shows I watched.

What Springsteen did this evening was inexcusable for a concert, and a hundred-fold more so for something broadcast world-wide. It's right down there with Whoopi Goldberg giving the microphone a blowjob at the Oscars.

And then we carp and complain about nations here and there around the world, rating our TV shows as "unsuitable for children", all in the name of Free Speech? Give me a break. Free speech is the right to disagree with the government, without being thrown in jail for it. It is not the right of Bruce Springsteen to put on that kind of sexual display on public airwaves (and yes, the same goes for the Dallas cheerleaders).

Alright, Bro. I kinda see your point but all I'm saying is don't get ridiculous about it. You would let your teenagers watch the movie Grease, wouldn't you?

1026 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:16:44pm

re: #1007 Charles

On the other hand, they just picked a chairman for the RNC who seems to be pretty moderate on social issues. (And it's pissing off the social cons already.)

I'm liking him more and more.

1027 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:16:55pm

re: #1019 A Kiwi Infidel

The other half (and growing rapidly) are immigrants who do.


Woops, stuffed that up completely, but you might get the idea.

1028 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:17:01pm

re: #1017 Miss Trixie

I'm supposed to know that? I'm so technologically-challenged to this intertubbie thing that I don't know.

*sigh*

At the very top of your screen, there should be a black bar with the "X" button and all that stuff. Over to the left, what are the last two words shown?

1029 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:17:03pm

re: #1005 Occasional Reader

Ah, so you haven't seen the part yet where the meteorite hits the stadium and kills everyone.

It's quite unexpected.

Smack!

1030 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:17:09pm
1031 3 wood  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:17:51pm

Good evening.

So far it looks like the market will open tomorrow on the upside. The futures so far are positive, the Nikkei is slightly negative but the Hang Seng is positive.

The Messiah is supposed to announce his grand plan for socializing everything sometime this week.

1032 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:18:29pm

re: #1031 3 wood

Good evening.

So far it looks like the market will open tomorrow on the upside. The futures so far are positive, the Nikkei is slightly negative but the Hang Seng is positive.

The Messiah is supposed to announce his grand plan for socializing everything sometime this week.

What plan is he actually going to announce?

1033 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:18:29pm
1034 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:18:30pm

re: #1028 gclaghorn

At the very top of your screen, there should be a black bar with the "X" button and all that stuff. Over to the left, what are the last two words shown?

Probably Internet Explorer.

1035 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:18:53pm

re: #1007 Charles

Michael Steele is staunchly pro-life. That said, he feels this is a decision that should be made by states. [Link: steeleforchairman.com...]

1036 lifeofthemind  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:19:09pm

re: #1007 Charles

On the other hand, they just picked a chairman for the RNC who seems to be pretty moderate on social issues. (And it's pissing off the social cons already.)

The PBS NewsHour boys were mighty pleased with Steele. Kept interjecting that he was personally conservative as a throw away and then assured each other the culture wars were over.

1037 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:19:59pm

re: #1034 gclaghorn

Probably Internet Explorer.

And if it is, my explorer would do that at times, I switched to Safari after using EI since the first version came out, whenever, BC or something like that.

1038 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:20:01pm

re: #1018 Walter L. Newton

You shouldn't take dating advice from me anyway, now that I think about it. I've been with the same guy since I was 18.

1039 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:20:35pm

re: #1038 ArmyWife

You shouldn't take dating advice from me anyway, now that I think about it. I've been with the same guy since I was 18.

That's ok, there's nothing wrong in dreaming.
/

1040 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:20:36pm

re: #1007 Charles

On the other hand, they just picked a chairman for the RNC who seems to be pretty moderate on social issues. (And it's pissing off the social cons already.)

I've already said I like Steele, he is a pretty moderate guy,and well liked here in Maryland. The thing that confuses me is the idea by promoted by many, that the GOP needs to move further to the right socially. How is that fight going ?

1041 NoelArmourson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:21:12pm

re: #691 Salamantis

Just because there are things that we don't know, and things that in princilpe we cannot know, is no reason to dismiss or ignore the fact that there are many things that we pragmatically DO know, and many other things that we theoretically CAN know. But these things are confined to the realm of the physical; metaphysical contentions cannot be known to be either true or false in the absence of empirical evidence, which cannot be supplied for metaphysical contentions. Metaphysical contentions must either be believed in or not. That distinction, evidence-supported knowledge vs. evidence-bereft belief, is what distinguishes empirical science from dogmatic faith.

Empirical science deals the observable universe, that of phenomena and effect which can be documented and measured. The realm of causation is invisible and is the province of studies of philosophy and religion, truths of which are perceived internally. These differing areas of study are not mutually exclusive, except to the limited perception of those who believe everything is already known.
Theories that appear to adequately explain the nature of the universe and offer useful predictive assumptions are often found to be lacking under some conditions, such as the differences among the Newtonian, Einsteinian and quantum views of physical reality. The same principle can hold true in the realm of metaphysical studies.

The real question here, though, is how to overcome the perceptual limitations imposed by fundamentalists of all stripes and make a more potent political force for the benefit of the republic, and for freedom around the world.

1042 lifeofthemind  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:21:44pm

re: #1005 Occasional Reader

Ah, so you haven't seen the part yet where the meteorite hits the stadium and kills everyone.

It's quite unexpected.

It's a cookbook.

1043 sngnsgt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:21:53pm

re: #1020 lifeofthemind

Older Sibling Sadism would have been feeding you peanut butter and crackers and sending you out to find help to get home.

LOL! Funny thing is, everyone would have known exactly where I was talking about. I have since learnt to speak gooder.

1044 3 wood  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:22:07pm

If you are looking to refinance, better get it done quick. Inflation looks to be just around the corner:
Treasury Real Yields at 16-Month High as Deflation Bets Die

Feb. 2 (Bloomberg) -- For the first time since 2007, Treasury investors are betting that inflation will accelerate.

The yield on 10-year notes exceeds the consumer price index by 2.74 percentage points, the most since December 2006. The gap between two- and 10-year rates widened at the fastest pace in a year last month as traders demanded more compensation for longer-term debt. Treasury Inflation Protected Securities that signaled falling prices as recently as Nov. 20 show they will increase in the U.S. this year.

Deflation was the growing concern for investors in 2008 as government bond yields fell to historic lows in December, the Reuters/Jefferies CRB Index of commodities tumbled 53 percent since July and home prices plunged 18 percent amid a deepening recession. Now, the bond market is saying Federal Reserve interest rates at zero percent, President Barack Obama’s $819 billion planned stimulus package and $8.5 trillion of U.S. initiatives to revive credit markets will reignite inflation.

“When the Fed gets finished here they will have an inflation nightmare on their hands,” said Mark MacQueen, who helps oversee $7 billion as co-founder of Sage Advisor Services Ltd. in Austin, Texas. “There is a lot of downside in conservative government bonds.”

1045 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:22:09pm
1046 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:22:13pm

re: #1025 Boogberg

Alright, Bro. I kinda see your point but all I'm saying is don't get ridiculous about it. You would let your teenagers watch the movie Grease, wouldn't you?

On TV, with me in the room.

And maybe we could get up and dance a bit.

Then follow it up with Battlefield Earth as a warning against Scientology. "See how good he was before he turned evil?"

1047 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:22:38pm

Well, it looks like the Cardinals will beat themselves with all the penalties they ranked up.

1048 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:23:39pm

re: #1037 Walter L. Newton

And if it is, my explorer would do that at times, I switched to Safari after using EI since the first version came out, whenever, BC or something like that.

I use Firefox and I love it. Tried Safari, but it started crashing my computer on a day when I was in a really bad mood and I just gave it up because I didn't feel like trying to fix it. Maybe I'll reinstall it, because I really did like it.

1049 jorline  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:23:41pm

re: #1031 3 wood

Good evening.

So far it looks like the market will open tomorrow on the upside. The futures so far are positive, the Nikkei is slightly negative but the Hang Seng is positive.

The Messiah is supposed to announce his grand plan for socializing everything sometime this week.

Evening, 3 wood.

Crap...why does Obama need a Press Secretary?
He's on TV daily...why don't they give him a one hour variety show?

1050 3 wood  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:23:44pm

re: #1033 Iron Fist

What plan is he actually going to announce?

The "bad bank" plus spend another trillion on all kinds of pork projects like 65% subsidy of COBRA, lowering medicare to 55, handouts for people who don't pay income taxes and so forth.

1051 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:23:55pm

re: #1045 ploome hineni

curry or vindaloo?

/watch it touts.......lol

heh-heh.
been there done that.

1052 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:24:22pm

re: #1048 gclaghorn

I use Firefox and I love it. Tried Safari, but it started crashing my computer on a day when I was in a really bad mood and I just gave it up because I didn't feel like trying to fix it. Maybe I'll reinstall it, because I really did like it.

In fact, I'm reinstalling it now. :)

1053 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:24:29pm
1054 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:25:10pm

I haven't been able to find anything on Steele's position on creationism, but I won't be surprised if I discover he wants intelligent design taught in schools. The GOP has a huge problem with this nonsense.

1055 Miss Trixie  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:25:40pm

re: #1021 Walter L. Newton

No, your browser, is it Internet Explorer, which is what comes with Vista?

How do I make that determination?

1056 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:25:46pm

re: #1050 3 wood

The "bad bank" plus spend another trillion on all kinds of pork projects like 65% subsidy of COBRA, lowering medicare to 55, handouts for people who don't pay income taxes and so forth.

Aw, hell. [despair] Why doesn't he just nuke his own country and get it over with?![/despair]

1057 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:25:49pm
1058 3 wood  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:26:11pm

re: #1038 ArmyWife

You shouldn't take dating advice from me anyway, now that I think about it. I've been with the same guy since I was 18.

I always say that I was born married to my wife, it just took me the first 25 years of my life to find her.

And my wish is that I go to my reward first cause I can't imagine spending a day on this earth with out her.

1059 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:26:13pm

re: #1040 avanti

Don't think that Michael Steele isn't a conservative - he is a pro-life Roman Catholic. He does not support gay marriage. Read this.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

1060 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:26:17pm

re: #1046 victor_yugo

On TV, with me in the room.

And maybe we could get up and dance a bit.

Then follow it up with Battlefield Earth as a warning against Scientology. "See how good he was before he turned evil?"


Reminds me when our kids were watching "Grease" and we walked into the room when "Greased Lightening" was on and the boys had stripped to the white singlets and were standing on the couch dancing up a storm. They were 5 and 7

1061 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:26:34pm

re: #1036 lifeofthemind

The PBS NewsHour boys were mighty pleased with Steele. Kept interjecting that he was personally conservative as a throw away and then assured each other the culture wars were over.

Oh bullshit. Michael Steele was a focal point of the battle in 2004.

1062 sngnsgt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:26:41pm

TD AZ!

1063 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:27:10pm

re: #1034 gclaghorn

Probably Internet Explorer.

Spelling correction.
Internet Exploder.
;-)

1064 3 wood  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:27:19pm

re: #1056 Dark_Falcon

Aw, hell. [despair] Why doesn't he just nuke his own country and get it over with?![/despair]

Well, that's what he's going to do.

1065 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:27:21pm

re: #1055 Miss Trixie

How do I make that determination?

Go to the help pull down menu (along the top) and click, see option "about" and read what it says. It should say Internet Explorer.

1066 Boogberg  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:28:32pm

re: #1031 3 wood

Good evening.

So far it looks like the market will open tomorrow on the upside. The futures so far are positive, the Nikkei is slightly negative but the Hang Seng is positive.

The Messiah is supposed to announce his grand plan for socializing everything sometime this week.

I'm into F to the tune of 2000 shares. I don't want to hear bad news. Get me? :D

1067 jorline  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:28:34pm

Another ten pounds and Alec Baldwin will be able to play algore.

1068 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:29:03pm

re: #1058 3 wood

awwwww! Right now, my husband is imagining life without me. He scratched my new, custom made pantry that was just installed today (we don't have the doors yet, they are still with the carpenter). He wanted to know why the heck (he didn't say heck) we have to have cabinets that look like darn (he didn't say darn) furniture and not just normal kitchen stuff (he didn't say stuff).

1069 van helsing  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:29:32pm

re: #1009 Steffan

I've long blamed Carter's inept handling of the hostage situation in Iran for the current state of affairs.

Between the Congress selling out South Vietnam in 75 and his thumb-up-the-ass lack of action our enemies rightfully deduced we were weak and even our allies couldn't trust us.

Thank G_d for Ronald Reagan.

1070 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:29:32pm

re: #1067 jorline

Another ten pounds and Alec Baldwin will be able to play algore.

Can we send both of them to Kim to see his shark tank?

1071 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:30:09pm

re: #1024 avanti

OK,that's why I'm here to learn. Actually, I spend too much time on the American Family Association web site, reading rants about the culture war, and that colors my opinion of what a conservative is.

OK, then, an honest, real seeker? Congratulations and welcome. Vanishingly rare these days, don't you know.

In re your question about the GOP moving further right, what that is based on is that for the last eight years, the GOP did not at all live up to its own dogmas on government programs and spending. And, that McCain in particular always seemed willing to compromise with the left, which turned into a pandering contest - and got no reciprocal compromise from the left.

The middle of the road being a place where you find yellow stripes and flattened skunks.

It is NOT that more extreme positions should be taken, it's that moderately right positions should be lived up to.

OK, that's the basics.

1072 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:30:27pm

re: #1054 Charles

I haven't been able to find anything on Steele's position on creationism, but I won't be surprised if I find he wants intelligent design taught in schools.

Searching on Google and so far he looks like a DI proponent.

1073 soccerdad  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:30:49pm

re: #997 Dark_Falcon

No, the Steelers are just that good. But I am 10 minutes behind on Tivo.

With some MAJOR help from the Referees. You would think THE ONE got to them the way they are calling everything against the Cardinals. Bunch of BS. Game over - steelers win...and if by chance the Cardinals have the temerity to make it a game. The Refs will handle it. Stealers....World Champs....again!

1074 Miss Trixie  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:31:00pm

re: #1057 ploome hineni

curious coinky dinky

:D

Oh sh*t, I'm a butterhead! :D

1075 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:31:08pm

re: #1072 gclaghorn

Searching on Google and so far he looks like a DI proponent.

A lot of aethist organizations furious about him, so I'm assuming he's an ID guy.

1076 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:31:16pm

re: #1064 3 wood

Well, that's what he's going to do.

I'm not mad at you. I'm mad at my mother and everyone else who voted for that turkey. The man is a disaster and his actions make me intensely angry.

1077 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:31:45pm

re: #1072 gclaghorn

Links?

1078 jorline  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:32:50pm

re: #1070 jcm

Can we send both of them to Kim to see his shark tank?

lol...that would be enough footage for an entire shark week.

1079 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:32:50pm

re: #1073 soccerdad

With some MAJOR help from the Referees. You would think THE ONE got to them the way they are calling everything against the Cardinals. Bunch of BS. Game over - steelers win...and if by chance the Cardinals have the temerity to make it a game. The Refs will handle it. Stealers....World Champs....again!

Sounds like the Seattle / Pittsburgh Superbowl. 21 point swing on ref calls.

1080 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:32:59pm

re: #929 astronmr20

Who hasn't seen an arieola?

In the UK that's a common bird.

1081 Miss Trixie  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:33:10pm

re: #1065 Walter L. Newton

Go to the help pull down menu (along the top) and click, see option "about" and read what it says. It should say Internet Explorer.

Ok, thanks luv - IE7. Now what?

1082 Truck Monkey  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:33:23pm

re: #1049 jorline

Evening, 3 wood.

Crap...why does Obama need a Press Secretary?
He's on TV daily...why don't they give him a one hour variety show?


Maybe he could team up with Rosie?

1083 lifeofthemind  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:33:41pm

re: #1070 jcm

Can we send both of them to Kim to see his shark tank?

Now you want to get in a fight with PETA?

1084 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:33:45pm
1085 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:33:52pm

re: #1077 Killgore Trout

Links?

None that I would consider credible.

1086 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:34:03pm

re: #1054 Charles

He's Catholic, but looking at Jindal, that doesn't mean much, I guess.

1087 victor_yugo  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:34:10pm

re: #1074 Miss Trixie

Oh sh*t, I'm a butterhead! :D

Bwwwaaaahahahahahahahahaha.....

1088 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:34:21pm

re: #1078 jorline

lol...that would be enough footage for an entire shark week.

Yeah, but PETA would be all over our asses for cruelty to sharks.

1089 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:34:40pm

re: #1059 ArmyWife

Don't think that Michael Steele isn't a conservative - he is a pro-life Roman Catholic. He does not support gay marriage. Read this.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

I don't support gay marriage, and though I'm pro choice, as a 66 year old male, it's the a deal breaker for me that it is for others. Even in the unlikely event Roe v Wade gets over ruled, most states will still allow it. As long as he lets me keep my porn and keep the church out of public places, I can cope just fine.

1090 jcm  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:34:48pm

re: #1083 lifeofthemind

Now you want to get in a fight with PETA?

GMTA!

1091 Daisy  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:34:49pm

re: #1058 3 wood

I always say that I was born married to my wife, it just took me the first 25 years of my life to find her.

And my wish is that I go to my reward first cause I can't imagine spending a day on this earth with out her.

How beautiful! Isn't it interesting how people who say such things also have happy marriage? And how people who say miserable things about their spouses tend to be miserable? I'm going to go give my husband a hug right now :)

1092 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:34:53pm

Whoo hoo! Blogging with Safari! LGF looks way better in this browser.

1093 Boogberg  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:35:26pm

re: #1046 victor_yugo

On TV, with me in the room.

And maybe we could get up and dance a bit.

Then follow it up with Battlefield Earth as a warning against Scientology. "See how good he was before he turned evil?"

Oh shit! I think I've been had. :D

1094 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:35:58pm

Let us not forget that it was the discipline of genetics that, finally, conclusively demonstrated that the various races were not members of different homo sapiens subspecies, but instead members of a single human family. And that the conceptual impetus that drove Watson & Crick to first isolate DNA, the material substrate of evolution and the study object of the scientific discipline of genetics, was provided by the complementary work of Charles Darwin and Gregor Mendel.

1095 jorline  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:36:50pm

MacGyver's fat now also...the Hollywood males must be storing up for the lean times to come.

1096 3 wood  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:36:52pm

re: #1076 Dark_Falcon

I'm not mad at you. I'm mad at my mother and everyone else who voted for that turkey. The man is a disaster and his actions make me intensely angry.

No worries friend, I know you're not mad at me.

Mandy has a saying about hoping people who did not vote for McCain cause he was not conservative enough are happy now. Only she outs it a little stronger.

By the way, the new Illinois Governor is talking about raising income and gas taxes already.

1097 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:37:13pm

re: #1072 gclaghorn

Searching on Google and so far he looks like a DI proponent.

Well, that would only be a deal breaker if he moved the GOP candidates that way for me. Still, if true, disappointing.

1098 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:37:41pm

re: #1044 3 wood

If you are looking to refinance, better get it done quick. Inflation looks to be just around the corner:
Treasury Real Yields at 16-Month High as Deflation Bets Die

Gawd. OK, the crux of this is that per Krugman and company everyone *wants* to "reignite inflation", and I certainly agree this will happen. Wouldn't be surprised to find inflation in double-digits, or triple, before the year is out. Yes, that's what I said. The Obamabuck is coming to a wallet near you real soon now.

But this headline cheeses me off bigtime. We're supposed to be overjoyed now, getting 2.5 percent on a 10 year bond, because it exceeds a bogus and temporary deflationary index? Pu-leeze. If there is any fear of real inflation, anyone buying a ten year bond today, will lose half their principle as soon as the rates return to even the sad 4.0 range where they were last year. And if they go to 5 percent, or 8, or 12, or 140, then wow, y'know?

1099 jorline  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:37:56pm

re: #1082 Truck Monkey

Maybe he could team up with Rosie?

Scary thought.

1100 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:38:00pm

re: #1081 Miss Trixie

Ok, thanks luv - IE7. Now what?

Go to Apple's web site and download and install Safari. Or have someone help you with that.

Internet Explorer is slow and buggy. Safari works really good with LFG and most of the time it's ok on other sites.

The most important thing is it's faster than EI.

1101 3 wood  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:38:13pm

re: #1091 Daisy

How beautiful! Isn't it interesting how people who say such things also have happy marriage? And how people who say miserable things about their spouses tend to be miserable? I'm going to go give my husband a hug right now :)

I literally can not even imagine not being married to my wife.

1102 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:38:22pm
1103 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:38:23pm

re: #1096 3 wood

No worries friend, I know you're not mad at me.

Mandy has a saying about hoping people who did not vote for McCain cause he was not conservative enough are happy now. Only she outs it a little stronger.

By the way, the new Illinois Governor is talking about raising income and gas taxes already.

I'm doomed. [cries] Sorry, but raising taxes during a recession is one of the dumbest things I can think of.

1104 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:39:11pm
1105 3 wood  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:39:42pm

re: #1098 itellu3times

If there is any fear of real inflation, anyone buying a ten year bond today, will lose half their principle as soon as the rates return to even the sad 4.0 range where they were last year. And if they go to 5 percent, or 8, or 12, or 140, then wow, y'know?

Well, I've been warning people here for quite a few weeks that treasuries are not the safe haven that many have thought.

1106 lifeofthemind  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:40:23pm

re: #1084 taxfreekiller

Better a few crazy ass creationist in a party than a party 100% commie crazy and lead by Al Gore, Bill Clinton, Obama and on George Soros's payroll.

The creationist can be cured, these commies are incureable and are going to allow the islamic terror to get nukes and kill the f'n planet.

choices


Considering how many worthy or simply nice things are in NYC, and further considering that it is probably the number one target for an attack with a WMD we could consider responding to the threat to the treasures of Western Civilization (The Mets [both of them], the Frick, the Livingroom) by assisting the jihadis in their getting a neutron bomb. That way they might kill the people but the important stuff will survive. Think about it, somebody somewhere in our government or among the academics land will entertain the idea.

1107 ArmyWife  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:40:54pm

re: #1086 Sharmuta

Michael went to Seminary, though. I've sent him an email and asked. Hopefully he isn't too important now to answer!

1108 3 wood  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:42:13pm

For any body watching the Superbowl, if you pay close attention to the feet of the Cardinals offensive linemen when they get up to the line of scrimmage, they are tipping off the running vs. passing plays by how they line up.

1109 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:43:28pm

re: #1104 taxfreekiller

BIG DEAL,,

OOPS

While I have your attention, can I ask why you do a mass ding down of me ? I accept that we disagree, but you ding me for nearly every post I make, dozens a day, and don't recall ever dinging you. What is your basic problem ?

1110 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:43:33pm

re: #1107 ArmyWife

Michael went to Seminary, though. I've sent him an email and asked. Hopefully he isn't too important now to answer!

Good luck- I'm still waiting to hear from Newt Gingrich.

1111 jorline  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:44:03pm

Very close to a safety.

1112 notutopia  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:45:13pm

re: #911 Slumbering Behemoth

I take it you've never seen this, then?

The latest pix of the week to play with...
We cn B a Chia pet!
or
I thot we drank Koolaid, not Miraclegro!

1113 jorline  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:45:43pm

Safety

1114 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:46:18pm

Religion purports to explain all the important stuff that people wonder about, and which science hasn't yet explained. Religion will therefore exist so long as science cannot adequately explain things that people need to have explanations for.

As science progressively explains more and more of the universe, religion in the West is being pressured and squeezed at every turn. As the body of scientific knowledge grows, the sphere of religious influence in the West is threatened. But not so in those theocracies where religious influence is enshrined by law and protected from the ravages of science by the force of the government.

Religion can explain virtually anything, and is unfettered by the strictures of rational thought or the scientific method - faith is all that is required for religious proof. On the other hand, scientific proof is difficult, expensive and time-consuming, and progresses labouriously at a snail's pace from the possible, to the probable, to the certain. This gives religion an advantage.

To maintain that evolution is consistent with a belief in God is easy - so long as the belief in God does not include faith-based facts which are inconsistent with scientifically proven ones. But as soon as that line is crossed then the struggle is most definitely on.

1115 Miss Trixie  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:46:25pm

Thanks Walter for all your help. I'll look into that in the morning - it's almost 22:00 and I'm off to snooze and get some beauty sleep.

1116 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:48:02pm
1117 3 wood  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:48:09pm

re: #1103 Dark_Falcon

I'm doomed. [cries] Sorry, but raising taxes during a recession is one of the dumbest things I can think of.

Notice how cutting spending is not being considered.

Yo, Illinois Republican Party Chairman (whoever you are)! I think this is a "gift" campaign issue for you for the taking.

1118 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:49:05pm

What a game!

1119 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:49:09pm

re: #1113 jorline

Safety

First.

1120 3 wood  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:50:16pm

Good night folks.

1121 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:50:28pm

re: #77 Killian Bundy
[Link: www.iep.utm.edu...]

1122 jorline  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:50:35pm

Cardinals TD...now Vegas is broke...looking for a bailout Monday morning.

1123 sngnsgt  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:50:40pm

re: #962 Miss Trixie

Arrgghh! This is driving me 'round the bend. Whenever I click on a lizard's avatar, I'm constantly redirected to the main page. I've shut down and rebooted to no avail.

Is it Vista?

/bloody frustrating and I can't upschwingadingy either ... grrrrrrr.

Tools, Internet options, tabs, settings, tabbed browsing settings, when a pop-up is encountered, Let IE decide how pop-ups should open, those are the settings I have. I'm not sure about the upschwingadingy thing though.

1124 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:51:05pm

re: #1110 Sharmuta

Good luck- I'm still waiting to hear from Newt Gingrich.

LOL.

And Ringo just flat won't answer fan mail anymore.

1125 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:52:22pm

re: #1109 avanti

Very funny,a down ding for asking. What offended you on this one for example
I know I'm new here, but WTF is your problem ?

1126 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:53:26pm

re: #1114 Spare O'Lake

To maintain that evolution is consistent with a belief in God is easy - so long as the belief in God does not include faith-based facts which are inconsistent with scientifically proven ones. But as soon as that line is crossed then the struggle is most definitely on.

And reality will always win.

1127 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:56:07pm
1128 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 6:56:28pm

re: #1126 Charles

And reality will always win.

Not to rain on your parade, Charles, but then do you explain Barack Obama being elected? Not trying to be an ass, just asking out of frustration with the man.

1129 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:01:47pm

re: #1126 Charles

And reality will always win.

Amen to that.

1130 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:02:16pm
1131 abolitionist  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:03:15pm

re: #958 Occasional Reader

"Youse" actually solves the problem of English not having a second-person form of "you" (as does "y'all"). We need to convene some sort of convention to adopt one or both forms.

I (first-person) believe you (second-person) meant a plural form of you, distinct from the singular form.

1132 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:05:25pm

re: #1127 Iron Fist

You don't much like the part of the Constitution that reads: or prohibiting the free exercise thereof? Banning the Church from the public square is just as Unconstitutional as establishing the Official Church of America. Most people don't seem to get that.

We disagree on that issue. I believe that any display favoring any particular faith on public property is a slippery slope constitutionally. Be it the 10 Commandments at the court house, or a big cross outside a VA cemetery .(Fine on not the individual grave sites though)
It's almost the same issue as ID in school, it's a religious idea, in a public forum.

1133 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:07:30pm

re: #1132 avanti

We disagree on that issue. I believe that any display favoring any particular faith on public property is a slippery slope constitutionally. Be it the 10 Commandments at the court house, or a big cross outside a VA cemetery .(Fine on not the individual grave sites though)
It's almost the same issue as ID in school, it's a religious idea, in a public forum.

"fine on the grave sites" sorry

1134 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:14:17pm

Cool game. Could only have been better if one team had been the bucs.

1135 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:15:16pm
1136 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:19:45pm
1137 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:24:32pm

re: #337 buzzsawmonkey

I don't care if the myths taught in science class are the more recent Twentieth Century myths of Scientology or Eugenics or the Nation of Islam's Mad Scientist Yacub, or the "Aryan science" of the Nazis--or the modern mythos of Man-Made Global Warming. None of them belong there any more than the stories of the Bible.

Therefore, while I share your sentiment that myth should not be taught as science and in science class, I suggest that you are directing your ire a little too narrowly. Yes, there is a push to shoehorn Biblical creation into the public schools, but it is by no means the only set of stories which pressure groups are looking to have accepted as "science."

But Genesis (and other revealed scriptural) Literalism is the only one that gratuitously misrepresents human origins from an extra-empirical position.

The broad-brush tarring of all empirically scientific theories with which religious dogmatists disagree with comparisons to AGW gets tiresome after a while.

1138 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:27:06pm

Some links that shed some light on my decidedly unpopular point of view.
[Link: tinyurl.com...]
[Link: tinyurl.com...]
[Link: tinyurl.com...]

1139 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:33:36pm

re: #457 jaunte

I hope Right Klik comes back to explain which one of Darwin's ideas was "godless" and how he arrived at that determination.

Yeah. Not invoking the presence of God in a work of empirical science is not even remotely equivalent to proclaiming God's absence.

1140 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:38:04pm

re: #1138 RightKlik

Some links that shed some light on my decidedly unpopular point of view.
[Link: tinyurl.com...]
[Link: tinyurl.com...]
[Link: tinyurl.com...]

Once again, the Disco Institute Wedge Strategy tactic of attempting to morph every discussion of the presence vs. the absence of empirical evidence for empirically scientific vs. religiously dogmatic contentions into a cynical campaign against Bad Old Atheists in defence of Good Old God rears its ugly head.

1141 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:42:34pm

re: #1132 avanti

re: #1135 Iron Fist

You seem to believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that allowing any religious idea in a public forum is an unconstitutional "establishment of religion". If that were the case, then disallowing any form of religious expression would, in and of itself, establish Atheism as the Official State Religion.

IIRC, they've done that before. We called it the Soviet Union.

I think the issue here is schools and education.

Schools are not public forums. Period.

1142 claspur  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:43:35pm

re: #1054 Charles

We all say This Way and someone else says, That Way... Let's call the whole thing off. ;o)

1143 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:43:35pm

re: #1136 Iron Fist

I will give you that you didn't call Arlington National Cemetery unconstitutional. Or, literally, the hundreds of thousands of white crosses on graves all over the world that bought you the space to argue about the propriety of such crosses in.

Heck no. That's probably the most personal display of faith you can have. Now stick up a big Star of David, a cross or a statue of Budda at the entrance, and I have a problem.

1144 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:44:12pm

re: #1139 Salamantis

While Darwin was originally very modest about evolution—a theory to account for transitions from one life form to another—he became increasingly insistent that evolution was an entirely naturalistic system...

When Darwin's co-discoverer of evolution, Alfred Russel Wallace, wrote him to say that evolution could not account for man's moral and spiritual nature, Darwin accused him of jeopardizing the whole theory: "I hope you have not murdered too completely your own and my child." Darwin's ultimate position was that it was disastrous for evolution to, at any point, permit a divine foot in the door....

This history is important because we can embrace Darwin's account of evolution without embracing his metaphysical naturalism and unbelief. Dawkins and others like him are in a way confusing the two faces of Charles Darwin. They are under the illusion that to be an evolutionist is essentially to be an atheist. Darwin, to his credit, rejected the equation of these two stances as illogical, even if he didn't always maintain, within his own life, a clear distinction between his science and his animus toward God.

[Link: tinyurl.com...]

1145 capitalist piglet  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:45:17pm

re: #1143 avanti

Heck no. That's probably the most personal display of faith you can have. Now stick up a big Star of David, a cross or a statue of Budda at the entrance, and I have a problem.

So it can be on public property, just not at the entrance?

1146 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:50:00pm

re: #1127 Iron Fist

You don't much like the part of the Constitution that reads: or prohibiting the free exercise thereof? Banning the Church from the public square is just as Unconstitutional as establishing the Official Church of America. Most people don't seem to get that.

How can you allow one church/mosque/temple and not another? (What is THE CHURCH of which you speak?)

Why do so many have to think that their communication with a god has to be public? What's wrong with prayer, privately or with those of like mind? I'm an atheist and know many good Christians, and have known a few such Muslims too. Even others if I am correct in assumption.

The problem is when they, any of them, have to decide that they must do it in the public square, regardless of who is there and then demand respect, publicly.

1147 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:52:07pm

re: #635 jaunte

The whole "teach both and let the kids decide" thing is very bothersome.

Yeah, let's teach astronomy AND astrology, chemistry AND alchemy, heliocentrism AND geocentrism!

/

1148 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:52:07pm

re: #1142 claspur

We all say This Way and someone else says, That Way... Let's call the whole thing off. ;o)

That's kind of like saying you don't think WE should be allowed to discuss what we want.

You are new here. Do you want to stick around or do you want to mold things to your way?

1149 NoelArmourson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:52:11pm

re: #1114 Spare O'Lake

Your operating assumption appears to be that all knowledge revealed through the scientific method will certainly and inevitably conflict with all religious thought, which is something I cannot empirically know.

Advances in the physical sciences have given us a standard of living totally unthinkable to people just a few decades ago, and further advances occur at mind-boggling speed.
Science, however, can't motivate people to moral behavior.
And religion can't build spacecraft.
Religion, without science, has no brain.
Science, without religion, has no heart.

1150 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:53:08pm

re: #1135 Iron Fist

You seem to believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that allowing any religious idea in a public forum is an unconstitutional "establishment of religion". If that were the case, then disallowing any form of religious expression would, in and of itself, establish Atheism as the Official State Religion.

IIRC, they've done that before. We called it the Soviet Union.

Yes, any display favoring a certain faith in a government setting with a few exceptions is unconstitutional. By so doing, you are implying a government endorsement of that faith.
No problem with religious expression, except when you try and tie it to the government. What sort of religious expression in government setting would you like to see ?

1151 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:54:56pm

re: #1126 Charles

And reality will always win.

We wouldn't be particularly concerned with this issue if we were absolutely sure of that, would we?

1152 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:59:25pm

re: #1144 RightKlik

That's not even the same article. But what that link did say was this:

To the end of his life, Darwin insisted that one could be "an ardent theist and an evolutionist."

1153 Steve Rogers  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:59:29pm

re: #587 Walter L. Newton

If it's not, it shouldn't be hard for Steve Rogers to find, since it should be on every liberal blog and web site on the planet.

He won't find it.

I am not a liberal. Not even close.

Criticizing the Republican Party for something that a very loud and very probable majority are doing, does not make me a liberal. It makes me someone that wants the Republicans to start winning elections again so they can turn the tide of what the vile filthy socialist Democrats are doing to this country. But I find a theocracy equally scary as a socialist state.

And I didn't post a link to a liberal blog site. I posted a link to the Alaska Daily News' site. Once again, quoting that news article:

"The volatile issue of teaching creation science in public schools popped up in the Alaska governor's race this week when Republican Sarah Palin said she thinks creationism should be taught alongside evolution in the state's public classrooms. " [Emphasis added.]

That is not my statement. That is not from a liberal blog. It is cut and pasted directly from The Alaska Daily News.

1154 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:59:49pm

re: #1149 NoelArmourson

Your operating assumption appears to be that all knowledge revealed through the scientific method will certainly and inevitably conflict with all religious thought, which is something I cannot empirically know.

Advances in the physical sciences have given us a standard of living totally unthinkable to people just a few decades ago, and further advances occur at mind-boggling speed.
Science, however, can't motivate people to moral behavior.
And religion can't build spacecraft.
Religion, without science, has no brain.
Science, without religion, has no heart.

You are correct that science has no heart, but scientists do.

1155 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 7:59:53pm
1156 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:00:56pm

re: #1145 capitalist piglet

So it can be on public property, just not at the entrance?

If we are talking about government owned property only if it's not to promote a certain faith. For example, a carving of Moses with the 10 Commandments with other displays of the history of laws is OK, but a big statue of Jesus by himself on the court house lawn, no.
We are not talking about intent, which the courts decide on a case by case basis.

1157 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:05:58pm

re: #1151 Naso Tang

We wouldn't be particularly concerned with this issue if we were absolutely sure of that, would we?

Not meaning to be presumptuous, but I took it as an expression of faith in America.

1158 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:07:18pm
1159 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:11:49pm

re: #1149 NoelArmourson

No such assumption. However scientific proof of faith-based facts would by definition be coincidental.

1160 Lynn B.  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:14:55pm

I took a break for the game and am never going to catch up. But I've gotta say, I'm disturbed by the selective memory showing here on Sarah Palin's creationism.

It was right here on LGF that we (well, I) learned, while the Kos kiddies (and my next door neighbor) were in hysterics about Palin's remarks during a 2006 debate, that she followed up with a clarification a few days later in a radio interview. I have the transcript somewhere but I can't find it now, so I'll go with this:

In a subsequent interview with the Daily News, Palin said discussion of alternative views on the origins of life should be allowed in Alaska classrooms. "I don’t think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn’t have to be part of the curriculum," she said.

Again, this follow-up was ignored by most of the liberal media that descended upon her debate comments like a swarm of locusts. I learned about it right here on LGF. Whether her remarks spiked a controversy at the time is unclear. She was running for governor of Alaska at the time, not VP of the US. It appears to me that her clarification was just that, and not an attempt at damage control.

I'm hardly a blind supporter of Sarah Palin and I'm not at all sure at this point whether I'd support her as a Presidential candidate in 2012. But her position on creationism is still far from clear and just a few months ago most of the people registered here seemed to understand that. Not to put too fine a point on it but, there also this (from the same link):

Palin said during her 2006 gubernatorial campaign that if she were elected, she would not push the state Board of Education to add creation-based alternatives to the state’s required curriculum, or look for creationism advocates when she appointed board members.

1161 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:17:05pm

re: #1157 Spare O'Lake

Not meaning to be presumptuous, but I took it as an expression of faith in America.

I share the same faith, if one calls it that, but that is not to say I take it for granted and will shut up and go back to watching the Daily Show any more than I think we will defeat fanaticism just because we have done so in the past.

1162 brookly red  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:18:04pm

re: #1106 lifeofthemind

Considering how many worthy or simply nice things are in NYC, and further considering that it is probably the number one target for an attack with a WMD we could consider responding to the threat to the treasures of Western Civilization (The Mets [both of them], the Frick, the Livingroom) by assisting the jihadis in their getting a neutron bomb. That way they might kill the people but the important stuff will survive. Think about it, somebody somewhere in our government or among the academics land will entertain the idea.

Uhhh, lifeofthemind I actually know you from other sites & have always respected your point of view, that is until now. If the frick & the met are more important to you than the "the people" (that would be me, & my neighbors). I kinda find this offensive... yes killing the people but saving the "important stuff " just kinda rubs me the wrong way... in fact I kinda feel that you are calling for violence & on an epic scale to boot.

1163 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:23:52pm

re: #1041 NoelArmourson

Empirical science deals the observable universe, that of phenomena and effect which can be documented and measured. The realm of causation is invisible and is the province of studies of philosophy and religion, truths of which are perceived internally. These differing areas of study are not mutually exclusive, except to the limited perception of those who believe everything is already known.

If you don't accept the reality of cause and effect, I need to get you on a pool table.

Theories that appear to adequately explain the nature of the universe and offer useful predictive assumptions are often found to be lacking under some conditions, such as the differences among the Newtonian, Einsteinian and quantum views of physical reality. The same principle can hold true in the realm of metaphysical studies.

The Newtonian Laws of Motion was subsumed under Einsteinian relativity as a special case, not refuted. And if the Large Hadron Collider investigations end up verifying Garret Lisi's GUTOE, we will have a framework that seamlessly integrates Einsteinian relativity with Feynmann's quantum mechanics.

The real question here, though, is how to overcome the perceptual limitations imposed by fundamentalists of all stripes and make a more potent political force for the benefit of the republic, and for freedom around the world.

Just make sure that 'fundamentalists' is not misapplied as a label by means of which you slander all empirical science with which you disagree. Especially since empirical science, as opposed to dogmatic religion, follows the experimentally derived evidence to a world-conception that is allowed to emerge from what we can empirically ascertain about the world, rather than gratuitously imposing a world-conception upon the observed phenomena whether or not it fits.

1164 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:24:32pm
1165 quickjustice  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:25:49pm

A curious coincidence: Charles Darwin and Abraham Lincoln were born the same day.

1166 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:29:20pm

re: #1084 taxfreekiller

Better a few crazy ass creationist in a party than a party 100% commie crazy and lead by Al Gore, Bill Clinton, Obama and on George Soros's payroll.

The creationist can be cured, these commies are incureable and are going to allow the islamic terror to get nukes and kill the f'n planet.

choices

Both former communists and former creationists exist, and in substantial numbers. For example, Christopher Hitchens is a reformed communist symp. He broke with them even before their embrace of the Islamofascists - when they endeavored to whitewash Stalin's genocide.

1167 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:32:24pm

re: #1164 Iron Fist

As a start, we could agree that the words "Under God" in the pledge of alligance do not constitute the establishment of religion. The words are what they are, a Constitutional bit of Ceremonial Diesim that the courts have held constitutional.

That would be a start.

They were added in the 1950's and will probably stand up in court after 50 years, but would not be allowed to be added now I suspect. Like the motto on coins, it'll stay, but a depiction of a cross or Christ would not. BTW, I have no problem with that example even though I am a agnostic. I'll politely bow in prayer when the occasion calls for it, just out of respect.

1168 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:34:08pm

re: #1164 Iron Fist

See also: In God We Trust

1169 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:35:17pm
1170 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:35:31pm

re: #1155 Iron Fist

If schools are not a public forum, then exactly what would you call them? They are paid for through taxes, children are required to attend them, and the State pretty well controls what is supposed to be presented in their classes.

I am finding some difficulty in trying to understand what our fundamental differences are.

Schools are places where we teach what is known, and to some extent values that parents may not be able to do. However they are not places to ask children to debate what adults don't agree on.

It is interesting that people object when Christian values or doctrine are mentioned as violating the Establishment clause, but usually do not object when Leftist doctrine is taught in the schools.

Leftist Doctrine, as you see it, and as I might agree or disagree with from time to time, is such a loose term that it has no meaning in a curriculum. Individual teachers cross the lines in either direction from time to time, but doctrine is not what 99% of teaching knowledge is about, except perhaps to a fundamentalist.


Global Warming gets mentioned a lot in this comparison simply because it is the most obvious attempt at shere indoctrination (in the name of "science") that we see. It is clear cut and obvious, whereas things like gay "rights", what does or does not qualify as sexual perversion, etc. are, while typically agenda driven, a bit harder to prove are agenda driven.

As far as I know, Global Warming is not a significant part of any school curriculum. You are speaking of a disagreement regarding whether or not people can make a difference in the climate change that is becoming apparent and clear. You say people have nothing to do with it (Perhaps you think God does). Some people say the opposite. The question is; is it worth economic expenditure and sacrifice in the foreseeable future to gain a return on the investment, or will we just be deeper in the hole if we try to do something that makes no difference? Why you sound as if this is a political, almost religious, issue I don't quite understand.

Especially when you are limiting your discussion to a few paragraphs of opinion. With Global Warming it is all out there being loud and proud, as it were. Anyone who denies that what is going on is an attempt at political (and quasi-religious) indoctrination is akin to the monkeys that cover their eyes, mouth, and ears to deny what their senses are telling them.

Sorry, but you don't seem able to keep this as a rational discussion about whether the science is right or wrong. It sounds too familiar to some other similar conceptual arguments we have here on other matters.

1171 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:36:16pm

re: #1116 taxfreekiller

Liberals are killing my country, screw them.

I think you are confusing classic liberals, of which I am one, with leftists, whom I abhor. Classical liberals like Scoop Jackson have been consistently anti-totalitarian generally and anti-communist specifically, while leftists have yet to encounter a totalitarianism, be it religious or secular, be it Stalinist, Maoist, or Islamofascist, with which they have not become enthralled.

1172 [deleted]  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:40:41pm
1173 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:41:44pm

re: #1160 Lynn B.

It was a good game indeed.

As to Palin, just as Obama missed numerous opportunities to throw the likes of Wright under the bus, Palin is waffling on the creationism issue and trying to satisfy everyone, just like another vanilla politician.

I don't much care if she is just playing the vote game or not, but on issues that involve the education of reality versus fantasy, there is no quarter to be given.

She does not have my vote now or then, based on what she has said now.

1174 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:42:44pm

re: #1169 Iron Fist

Fair enough. I've go to get up esrly tomorrow, so I'm gone. Have a nice night.

Ah well. I was going to answer your other post too. Until the next time then.

1175 lifeofthemind  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:44:41pm

re: #1162 brookly red

Uhhh, lifeofthemind I actually know you from other sites & have always respected your point of view, that is until now. If the frick & the met are more important to you than the "the people" (that would be me, & my neighbors). I kinda find this offensive... yes killing the people but saving the "important stuff " just kinda rubs me the wrong way... in fact I kinda feel that you are calling for violence & on an epic scale to boot.

That was sarcasm Brookly, got it? I said that "somebody somewhere in our government or in academics" is thinking that way. You do know me better and I respect you to much to hang sarc tags on this stuff.

1176 jaunte  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:45:40pm

re: #1170 Naso Tang

Upding for this:

"Schools are places where we teach what is known, and to some extent values that parents may not be able to do. However they are not places to ask children to debate what adults don't agree on."
1177 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:46:05pm

re: #1121 RightKlik

[Link: www.iep.utm.edu...]

I do not trust that site. When an accepted submission illegitimately and fallaciously tars evolutionary theory with a hedonistic brush, I have to consider its two editors as possessed by an anti-evolutionary agenda.

btw: what exactly is wrong with the greatest good for the greatest number? The only thing that I can see is incompleteness - that it ignores ills - and the contemporary model of utilitarianism, which embraces the principle of the greatest possible positive summation of the combined aggregate of good and ill components, more than adequately addresses that lack.

1178 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:47:49pm

re: #1165 quickjustice

A curious coincidence: Charles Darwin and Abraham Lincoln were born the same day.

I believe in coincidences, but only when the have no significance to anyone.

1179 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:50:13pm

re: #1160 Lynn B.

I'm hardly a blind supporter of Sarah Palin and I'm not at all sure at this point whether I'd support her as a Presidential candidate in 2012. But her position on creationism is still far from clear and just a few months ago most of the people registered here seemed to understand that.

This is correct -- her position is far from clear. I defended her during the campaign because she said she wouldn't push for creationism in schools. That's all well and good, but then there were other problems that made me look again at this statement -- her support for the anti-gay marriage constitutional amendment (the idea of legislating morality by amending the constitution is an utter disaster), her disturbing refusal to denounce abortion clinic bombers, her idiotic comments about "fruit fly research in Paris, France," etc.

I know it's not very popular on the right to criticize Palin, but as of this moment I have serious reservations about supporting her in a Presidential run.

1180 Lynn B.  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:51:57pm

re: #1173 Naso Tang

It was a good game indeed.

As to Palin, just as Obama missed numerous opportunities to throw the likes of Wright under the bus, Palin is waffling on the creationism issue and trying to satisfy everyone, just like another vanilla politician.

I don't much care if she is just playing the vote game or not, but on issues that involve the education of reality versus fantasy, there is no quarter to be given.

She does not have my vote now or then, based on what she has said now.

A good game but forget my nails. My fingertips are gone. And I didn't even care about it that much, except that I grew up in Pittsburgh and it's a hard habit to break.

As for Palin, it's not that she's waffled so much as that she hasn't said anything at all since she threw her hat into the national ring. Both of these quotes come from her 2006 gubernatorial race where she was playing to an exclusively Alaskan audience. Isn't it curious that none of the "gotcha" interviews during the 08 election campaign asked her about it? If they were confident that she would have given even an equivocal answer, don't you think they would have tried to nail her on that?

1181 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:52:25pm

re: #1127 Iron Fist

You don't much like the part of the Constitution that reads: or prohibiting the free exercise thereof? Banning the Church from the public square is just as Unconstitutional as establishing the Official Church of America. Most people don't seem to get that.

Either all religious expression on public property must be prohibited, or all of it must be allowed, regardless of the religions in question, in order not to transgress the the constitutional prohibition against favoring of some religions over others, (no establishment).

If yopu don't mind county courthouse lawn creches surrounded by Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Pagan and Pastafarian displays, feel free.

1182 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:53:17pm

re: #1179 Charles

Snip

I know it's not very popular on the right to criticize Palin, but as of this moment I have serious reservations about supporting her in a Presidential run.

1183 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:57:10pm

re: #1135 Iron Fist

You seem to believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that allowing any religious idea in a public forum is an unconstitutional "establishment of religion". If that were the case, then disallowing any form of religious expression would, in and of itself, establish Atheism as the Official State Religion.

IIRC, they've done that before. We called it the Soviet Union.

Nope. The absence of a governmental endorsement of theism is not the same as the presence of a governmental endorsement of atheism. Not officially embracing a cosmic deific presence is not the same as officially embracing a cosmic deific absence.

1184 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:58:10pm

re: #1179 Charles


I know it's not very popular on the right to criticize Palin, but as of this moment I have serious reservations about supporting her in a Presidential run.

Sorry, wish there was a delete button.

I often wondered about the level of support she had on the right, but very little in the middle on the left. Unless she can expand that support to the whole electorate, it'll be a wasted effort.

1185 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:58:33pm

re: #1180 Lynn B.

...........Both of these quotes come from her 2006 gubernatorial race where she was playing to an exclusively Alaskan audience. Isn't it curious that none of the "gotcha" interviews during the 08 election campaign asked her about it? If they were confident that she would have given even an equivocal answer, don't you think they would have tried to nail her on that?

Honestly, all I care about is what I hear she says, to the extent that the quotes and context are correct.

Before or after the election makes no difference. In Alaska or out makes no difference.

Between now and 2012 makes a difference, if I live that long.

1186 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:58:50pm

That was a joke.

1187 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:00:16pm

re: #1180 Lynn B.

A good game but forget my nails. My fingertips are gone. And I didn't even care about it that much, except that I grew up in Pittsburgh and it's a hard habit to break.

As for Palin, it's not that she's waffled so much as that she hasn't said anything at all since she threw her hat into the national ring. Both of these quotes come from her 2006 gubernatorial race where she was playing to an exclusively Alaskan audience. Isn't it curious that none of the "gotcha" interviews during the 08 election campaign asked her about it? If they were confident that she would have given even an equivocal answer, don't you think they would have tried to nail her on that?

Please note the Alaska Republican Party Platform:

E. We support teaching various models and theories for the origins of life and our universe, including Creation Science or Intelligent Design. If evolution outside a species (macro-evolution) is taught, evidence disputing the theory should also be presented.

1188 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:01:35pm

re: #1136 Iron Fist

I will give you that you didn't call Arlington National Cemetery unconstitutional. Or, literally, the hundreds of thousands of white crosses on graves all over the world that bought you the space to argue about the propriety of such crosses in.

Members of many different religions are interred on those grounds. And only recently were pagan members of the US military who gave their last full measure of devotion to their country finally allowed to be interred there beneath the symbols of their faith, after a lengthy legal action:

[Link: www.paganvets.org...]

1189 Lynn B.  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:01:38pm

re: #1179 Charles

This is correct -- her position is far from clear. I defended her during the campaign because she said she wouldn't push for creationism in schools. That's all well and good, but then there were other problems that made me look again at this statement -- her support for the anti-gay marriage constitutional amendment (the idea of legislating morality by amending the constitution is an utter disaster), her disturbing refusal to denounce abortion clinic bombers, her idiotic comments about "fruit fly research in Paris, France," etc.

I know it's not very popular on the right to criticize Palin, but as of this moment I have serious reservations about supporting her in a Presidential run.

And so, alas, do I, for the same reasons. Not that I have anyone else to turn to at the moment. In fact, I was extremely bummed out when Michael Steele on Fox News Sunday today mentioned Bobby Jindal as one of the GOP leaders under 50 that he sees as the future of the party. Not a good sign.

Perhaps she was being disingenuous in her post-debate interview on creationism and you're right that some of her other positions would lead one to suspect that might be the case. But the jury's still out on that and since she was never required and never volunteered to clarify it in the national election, we may never know.

1190 brookly red  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:02:19pm

re: #1175 lifeofthemind

That was sarcasm Brookly, got it? I said that "somebody somewhere in our government or in academics" is thinking that way. You do know me better and I respect you to much to hang sarc tags on this stuff.

Yes, I do know you better than that, I guess... and being a sarcastic sob myself, perhaps I should have had a thicker skin. But after 9/11 I don't have a very long fuse... my bad. But please use the tag in the future to avoid misunderstandings... using the wrong 2 words in the same sentence can trigger bad (automated) things.

1191 freetoken  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:03:51pm

re: #1170 Naso Tang

Sorry, but you don't seem able to keep this as a rational discussion about whether the science is right or wrong. It sounds too familiar to some other similar conceptual arguments we have here on other matters.

There is a great emotional investment, on the part of some, in hating Al Gore and the UN, and while I've tried to come up with ways to convince people that the science of climatology's results are valid (in the sense used for any scientific endeavor), whether or not Al Gore or the UN agree or disagree with the results.... I've failed so far to convince many on this board.

Somehow, in the minds of some, climatologists are in some great conspiracy.

Al Gore is a politician... which means like all politicians he must be an opportunist and find causes and constituencies to represent. Fortunately for him he tied his wagon to the scientific endeavor, and can sail right along and not really worry (since he is not in office and thus does not have to make decisions that have to be explained to people whom he would need for votes to get re-elected) about what to do next... he just waits around for the next scientific meeting, collects some cool slides, and keeps on chugging.

That so many ID supporters and sympathizers (e.g., "teach both" politicians) try to use AGW as a wedge issue to split off non-scientists who accept evolution from the general pro-science segment of the electorate... is just that, a version of their Wedge Strategy.

1192 jaunte  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:04:36pm

re: #1188 Salamantis

Interesting. I didn't know there were so many VA approved symbols.
[Link: www.cem.va.gov...]
Even the atheists and humanists have symbols.

1193 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:06:40pm

re: #1189 Lynn B.

And so, alas, do I, for the same reasons. Not that I have anyone else to turn to at the moment. In fact, I was extremely bummed out when Michael Steele on Fox News Sunday today mentioned Bobby Jindal as one of the GOP leaders under 50 that he sees as the future of the party. Not a good sign.

Perhaps she was being disingenuous in her post-debate interview on creationism and you're right that some of her other positions would lead one to suspect that might be the case. But the jury's still out on that and since she was never required and never volunteered to clarify it in the national election, we may never know.

If Jindal is the future, the GOP has a problem. If he backpedals on his ID stand, the religious right will be pissed, but then again, they won't go left. He might start thinking of revising his position at some point.

1194 SpaceJesus  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:07:39pm

re: #12 RightKlik

Whether Darwin would have approved or not, the godless ideas that he helped to establish are responsible for the decline in the value of human life during the 20th century.


ah yes, the good ol' days when men were men, jesus was everything and slavery was legal.

1195 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:08:08pm

re: #1144 RightKlik

[Link: tinyurl.com...]

Darwin was a devout and pious individual, who studied for the Christian clerisy. His faith was only swayed long after the publication of Origin of Species, when his young daughter died of an illness, and he could not grasp the possibility of a benevolent deity permitting it. Whatever his theological proclivities were, he meticulously kept them separated from his science.

1196 Lynn B.  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:08:39pm

re: #1187 Charles

Please note the Alaska Republican Party Platform:

E. We support teaching various models and theories for the origins of life and our universe, including Creation Science or Intelligent Design. If evolution outside a species (macro-evolution) is taught, evidence disputing the theory should also be presented.

Yep. And that's the audience she was courting with that debate response. Successfully, I might add.

Feh! Bah! Downding! As a spark of light in an otherwise dreary, depressing and demoralizing McCain candidacy, she had appeal. Going forward, not so much. (And she doesn't seem to get that.)

1197 mean Gene  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:10:02pm

Late to the party, I know.
BUT seriously?
Darwin was not an objective observation-based researcher but rather an agenda-based propagandizer?

Adrian Desmond and James Moore........set out to overturn the widespread view that Darwin was a “tough-minded scientist” who unflinchingly followed the trail of empirical research until it led to the stunning and unavoidable theory of evolution. This narrative, they claim, is precisely backward. “Darwin’s starting point,” they write, “was the abolitionist belief in blood kinship, a ‘common descent’ ” of all human beings.


It is scientific method to

1. Define the question
2. Gather information and resources (observe)
3. Form hypothesis
4. Perform experiment and collect data
5. Analyze data
6. Interpret data and draw conclusions that serve as a starting point for new hypothesis
7. Publish results
8. Retest (frequently done by other scientists)

Wikipedia

But Darwin did the opposite.
He had a conclusion (slavery is bad) and he created the structure of evolution with ''findings'' he choose to back up his conclusion that slavery is bad.
IF his bias had been racist instead no doubt he could/would have skewed his ''findings'' to back up that conclusion.
So, I do not see why this is good news.
It makes evolution look worse than it ever did.
It makes Darwin's theory fit the paradigm of unprincipled people, like the Nazi's, who will cast about for proofs that they are in the right from any and every source imaginable at the time.
Gee, I hope all of this has already been addressed.
I've been watching a ball game (every year, one game).
I have 100% of the time (over 40 years) picked the losing team to root for, too.
Weird.

1198 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:14:41pm

re: #1149 NoelArmourson

Your operating assumption appears to be that all knowledge revealed through the scientific method will certainly and inevitably conflict with all religious thought, which is something I cannot empirically know.

Advances in the physical sciences have given us a standard of living totally unthinkable to people just a few decades ago, and further advances occur at mind-boggling speed.
Science, however, can't motivate people to moral behavior.
And religion can't build spacecraft.
Religion, without science, has no brain.
Science, without religion, has no heart.

There is no necessity for ethics to be religiously based (see Kant's Moral Imperatives). In fact, many different religions have converged upon the same sanctions against killing, stealing, lying, enslaving, raping and defrauding, because they pulled those precepts from the cultures and societies in which they were born, and those precepts from differnt faiths resemble each other because all of these cultures and societies were human ones.

1199 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:14:44pm

re: #1197 mean Gene

You have completely distorted everything about this story. Darwin's feelings about slavery informed his work, but it's ridiculous to say that he slanted his findings in order to support a foregone conclusion.

If you had ever read The Origin of Species you would know just how ludicrous and wrong this idea is. Darwin's work was incredibly meticulous, and absolutely not biased.

"Like the Nazis."

Good grief.

1200 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:17:28pm

re: #1187 Charles

Please note the Alaska Republican Party Platform:

E. We support teaching various models and theories for the origins of life and our universe, including Creation Science or Intelligent Design. If evolution outside a species (macro-evolution) is taught, evidence disputing the theory should also be presented.

Can there be a more definitive support of creationism, with a sop to equal time thrown in?

1201 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:20:16pm

re: #1177 Salamantis
btw: what exactly is wrong with the greatest good for the greatest number?

...one problem is that the minority can be completely crushed by the majority with this kind of calculation. This approach has to be balanced with principles so that it is not abused by tyrants.

1202 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:20:30pm

re: #1200 Naso Tang

Can there be a more definitive support of creationism, with a sop to equal time thrown in?

Right -- they even endorse "Creation Science," the idiot's version of intelligent design. This is real atavistic stuff.

1203 SpaceJesus  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:20:53pm

Darwin wrote a book once. You know who else wrote a book once?


That's right. Hitler.

1204 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:22:04pm

re: #1155 Iron Fist

If schools are not a public forum, then exactly what would you call them? They are paid for through taxes, children are required to attend them, and the State pretty well controls what is supposed to be presented in their classes.

It is interesting that people object when Christian values or doctrine are mentioned as violating the Establishment clause, but usually do not object when Leftist doctrine is taught in the schools. Global Warming gets mentioned a lot in this comparison simply because it is the most obvious attempt at shere indoctrination (in the name of "science") that we see. It is clear cut and obvious, whereas things like gay "rights", what does or does not qualify as sexual perversion, etc. are, while typically agenda driven, a bit harder to prove are agenda driven.

Especially when you are limiting your discussion to a few paragraphs of opinion. With Global Warming it is all out there being loud and proud, as it were. Anyone who denies that what is going on is an attempt at political (and quasi-religious) indoctrination is akin to the monkeys that cover their eyes, mouth, and ears to deny what their senses are telling them.

Bitching and moaning about AGW or gay rights in order to justify inclusion of creationist religious dogmas in public high school science class does not pass the smell test. One does not cure arsenic poisoning by dosing one's patient with strychnine.

1205 mean Gene  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:22:48pm

Charles, get mad at the message, not the messenger.
I was quoting the book review you offered for review.
IT said.....

Adrian Desmond and James Moore........set out to overturn the widespread view that Darwin was a “tough-minded scientist” who unflinchingly followed the trail of empirical research until it led to the stunning and unavoidable theory of evolution. This narrative, they claim, is precisely backward. “

I didn't say it.
I merely noted that that is exactly what the Nazi's did IF they used Darwin to back up their racist theories.
I also said that any unprincipled person does this.....casts about amongst everything he can find everywhere for anything to back up what he was going to do in the first place.

1206 Lynn B.  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:22:56pm

re: #1193 avanti

If Jindal is the future, the GOP has a problem. If he backpedals on his ID stand, the religious right will be pissed, but then again, they won't go left. He might start thinking of revising his position at some point.

If the GOP can't get over its dependency on the religious right contingent that insists on pushing this creationism nonsense as well as (as Charles put it) trying to legislate morality, then it's doomed. As for Jindal, there's such a thing as too late. And "too late" is approaching fast.

1207 freetoken  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:23:59pm

re: #1200 Naso Tang

Can there be a more definitive support of creationism, with a sop to equal time thrown in?

The Oklahoma GOP 2007 platform had a pretty strong statement... but the file can no longer be found on their site, and apparently they haven't bothered to write a new state platform yet.

1208 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:25:07pm

re: #1205 mean Gene

I also said that any unprincipled person does this.....casts about amongst everything he can find everywhere for anything to back up what he was going to do in the first place.

You've misunderstood the point of the article, and are leaping to completely ridiculous, completely wrong conclusions based on your misunderstanding.

1209 Lynn B.  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:27:30pm

re: #1203 SpaceJesus

For a minute there (#1194), I thought you'd rejoined us on the planet earth (a/k/a reality).

My bad.

1210 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:27:41pm

re: #1201 RightKlik

btw: what exactly is wrong with the greatest good for the greatest number?

...one problem is that the minority can be completely crushed by the majority with this kind of calculation. This approach has to be balanced with principles so that it is not abused by tyrants.

And that is exactly what the US Constitution has done, via the Bill of Rights, which was designed to prevent the tyranny of the majority from being imposed upon an unwilling minority. One of those rights was freedom of ALL of the different religions, and favor for NONE of them, in public institutions, including public schools. So ALL of them may be discussed in a comparative religion class, where they belong, and NONE of them may be discussed in a public high school science class - because, they're not science, but religion. D'OH!

1211 freetoken  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:28:12pm

re: #1206 Lynn B.

A non-trivial portion of the GOP faithful are the "social conservatives". That is exactly why so many of the politicians have to speak to their wishes.

This is quite an awkward position for any non-creationist GOP prospective star politician. I really don't see how the GOP can break out of the minority party path it now seems to be back upon.

Frum a few days ago tried to address this (i.e., making the GOP tent larger), in a way. Even when the link was posted here on LGF it was down-dinged.

1212 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:28:32pm

re: #1209 Lynn B.

For a minute there (#1194), I thought you'd rejoined us on the planet earth (a/k/a reality).

My bad.

Actually, I laughed at that one. He's making fun of the Darwin=Hitler BS.

1213 SpaceJesus  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:30:04pm

re: #1209 Lynn B.

For a minute there (#1194), I thought you'd rejoined us on the planet earth (a/k/a reality).

My bad.


both of those posts are sarcastic

1214 mean Gene  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:32:13pm

Well, probably so.
As I wrote I was involved in watching a football game most of the day.....and that involved a few drinks.
I'll leave it until another time.

The article had points like above and this that must have led me astray:

Darwin’s power, according to Desmond and Moore, lay in his marshaling an argument for the unitary origin and hence “brotherhood” of all human beings, and this, they argue, is precisely what Darwin achieved in “The Origin of Species” and later in “The Descent of Man.” The case they make is rich and intricate, involving Darwin’s encounter with race-based phrenology at Edinburgh and a religiously based opposition to slavery at Cambridge.......
.......if Darwin’s evidence had led to conclusions that did not support his belief in the unitary origins of mankind? Would he have fudged the data? Desmond and Moore don’t really address the question. One is left with the impression that Darwin was amazingly lucky that his benevolent preconceptions turned out to fit the facts.
1215 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:32:34pm

re: #1213 SpaceJesus

Then I take my dingdown back. But really, Socrates, if you weren't so antagonistic at times, maybe the humor would have come through better.

1216 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:34:00pm

re: #1206 Lynn B.

If the GOP can't get over its dependency on the religious right contingent that insists on pushing this creationism nonsense as well as (as Charles put it) trying to legislate morality, then it's doomed. As for Jindal, there's such a thing as too late. And "too late" is approaching fast.

Wow, I am in 100% agreement. The religious right scares the crap out of me. The straw that broke the camels back for me was watching a young, female science teacher reduced to tears at my son's 8th grade class open house by a ID'er that told her she'd burn in hell for teaching " against the Bible "
That was the day my kid joined me as a confirmed agnostic.

1217 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:34:27pm

re: #1214 mean Gene

Well- there's the crux of it. Darwin's facts. Because if he'd published a book based on his preconception that didn't fit the facts, he'd be Michael Behe.

1218 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:35:03pm

re: #1210 Salamantis
"One of those rights was freedom of ALL of the different religions, and favor for NONE of them, in public institutions, including public schools."

I'm not a proponent of teaching creationism in public schools...or promoting religion.

1219 Lynn B.  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:36:48pm

re: #1212 Charles

re: #1213 SpaceJesus

Ah... ok, {blush} caught it on the first one. Thought you were serious on the second.

Down-ding corrected (gosh I wish I could do that with all my mistakes ... )

1220 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:37:05pm

I'm pretty much an agnostic myself. When it comes to Darwinism or Creationism or anything else, I say live and let live. What's wrong with that?

1221 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:41:12pm

I think the biggest problems arise when people move toward the extremes: hard-core fundamentalist, creationist literalism one the one hand or hard-core atheism on the other hand. I think most people have the intellectual humility to put themselves somewhere in the middle.

1222 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:41:20pm

This meme that Darwinism led to the Holocaust is the kookiest thing I've ever heard in my life, and I've heard a lot of kooky things in my day. That train of thought led me to investigate further (actually LGF did all the heavy lifting) the people that were pushing it. And they are as dishonest as the day is long and worthy of all the scorn heaped upon them.

1223 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:42:16pm

re: #1197 mean Gene

Late to the party, I know.
BUT seriously?
Darwin was not an objective observation-based researcher but rather an agenda-based propagandizer?


Wikipedia

But Darwin did the opposite.
He had a conclusion (slavery is bad) and he created the structure of evolution with ''findings'' he choose to back up his conclusion that slavery is bad.
IF his bias had been racist instead no doubt he could/would have skewed his ''findings'' to back up that conclusion.
So, I do not see why this is good news.
It makes evolution look worse than it ever did.
It makes Darwin's theory fit the paradigm of unprincipled people, like the Nazi's, who will cast about for proofs that they are in the right from any and every source imaginable at the time.
Gee, I hope all of this has already been addressed.
I've been watching a ball game (every year, one game).
I have 100% of the time (over 40 years) picked the losing team to root for, too.
Weird.

I don't think so. Darwin's enduring tendency was to follow the data, wherever it might lead. In this instance, it fortuitously led in the selfsame direction in which his moral sympathies also lay - that all races were indeed members of a single human species.

I think that he would have been honest about reaching the opposite conclusion, had the data supported it, regardless of his private sympathies.

1224 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:42:26pm

re: #1216 avanti

Wow, I am in 100% agreement. The religious right scares the crap out of me. The straw that broke the camels back for me was watching a young, female science teacher reduced to tears at my son's 8th grade class open house by a ID'er that told her she'd burn in hell for teaching " against the Bible "
That was the day my kid joined me as a confirmed agnostic.

There have been several creationist fanatics at LGF who have said -- either outright or in veiled terms -- that I'm going to burn in hellfire for criticizing their pseudo-scientific hooey.

My response is usually: if heaven means spending eternity in the company of humorless ignorant fanatics like them, hell doesn't sound so bad.

1225 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:42:58pm

re: #1221 RightKlik

Please, Darwinism has nothing to do with athiesm. That is a FALSE construct. Whether or not you believe is a personal matter. Leave Darwin out of it.

1226 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:45:00pm

re: #1191 freetoken


Somehow, in the minds of some, climatologists are in some great conspiracy.

Al Gore is a politician... which means like all politicians he must be an opportunist and find causes and constituencies to represent.

And of course some conspiracy theorists think that Al Gore is one and the same, just on the other side of the fence.

Personally, I think think Al Gore just found his niche as a producer and promoter. Aren't we all opportunists, or wish we could be?

This is irrelevant to the issue. Is the science true or not? Is the response worth the cost or not?

What I suspect is that the anti Global Warming people think is that there is a conspiracy for economic realignment of some sort that is based on political dogma alone, just like there is a conspiracy of the likes of myself (now I sound conspiratorial) to abolish Christmas (which I greatly enjoy in a non denominational manner).

What they seem to miss is that the 6+ billion people on this planet do a hell of a lot more than fart enough methane and CO2 as 6 billion cows do. Every one of us has a monkey on our backs that farts a factory worth of newsprint, bullets, oil, plastics and pavement equivalent to 6 billion herds of monkeys. To question that WE can't make a difference seems insane and I'm old enough to have seen a difference in nature between my youth and now.

So, should we think we can do something, or shouldn't bother? That is the question, not whether there is a conspiracy or not.

1227 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:46:04pm

re: #1205 mean Gene

See my comment at:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

1228 Lynn B.  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:47:30pm

re: #1211 freetoken

A non-trivial portion of the GOP faithful are the "social conservatives". That is exactly why so many of the politicians have to speak to their wishes.

This is quite an awkward position for any non-creationist GOP prospective star politician. I really don't see how the GOP can break out of the minority party path it now seems to be back upon.

Frum a few days ago tried to address this (i.e., making the GOP tent larger), in a way. Even when the link was posted here on LGF it was down-dinged.

You may be right, but it seems to me that the GOP is at a crossroads where it can continue to appeal to that faithful contingent and become irrelevant (or at best a fringe and powerless opposition party), or it can reinvent itself by getting back to its roots of limited government and fiscal conservatism and bring back in many of the people who left when it lost sight of that vision.

I simply don't believe that the vast majority of Americans want either socialism or theocracy. The Democrats, it appears, have staked their claim for the former. What will the Republicans do?

1229 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:49:33pm

re: #1220 RightKlik

I'm pretty much an agnostic myself. When it comes to Darwinism or Creationism or anything else, I say live and let live. What's wrong with that?

Because creationists are not following your "live and let live" philosophy, if that is indeed your feelings on the subject. You could have fooled me with all your comments tonight linking Darwin to godlessness.

1230 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:53:42pm

re: #1229 Sharmuta

It's a perspective that I find interesting. I don't agree with everything that I find interesting. Some of the debate hinges on the difference between belief in evolutionary sciences vs. Darwinism vs atheism.

1231 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:54:12pm

I certainly don't agree with extremists

1232 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:54:15pm

re: #1229 Sharmuta

He does seem to be a tad confused. The meme that Darwinism leads to atheism is one VERY deeply ingrained in the American psyche, and not just among conservatives as someone pointed out earlier. Regretfully many have closed their minds to further elucidation on the subject.

1233 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:54:40pm

re: #1197 mean Gene

Late to the party, I know.

Everyone knows a party gets better as it ages, just like people.


BUT seriously?
Darwin was not an objective observation-based researcher but rather an agenda-based propagandizer?

Does it really matter (no agreement intended)?

Evolution has revolutionized biology ever since and Darwin has been vindicated in every regard. What significance does an allegation of his personal motives, right or wrong, have to do with that?

1234 freetoken  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:56:08pm

re: #1226 Naso Tang


Personally, I think think Al Gore just found his niche as a producer and promoter. Aren't we all opportunists, or wish we could be?

Agree. Amazingly, many people find can find their "true calling" later in life... and Al Gore makes for a good promoter.

I only wish that the people who automatically decide that AGW is a "fraud" (as yet another editorial in the Telegraph so labeled) would bother to step back and really look at the overall picture. Its as if of all the areas of Physics, that one particular applied physics specialty, the subsection which deals with planetary science, is somehow now fraudulent. My suspicion has been for a while now that the motivations (among the most vociferous deniers of anthropogenic impacts) are deeper than the purely financial...

Nevertheless, when AGW is brought up in these ID threads I am quite convinced that we are being served part of the Wedge Strategy.

1235 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:57:10pm

re: #1230 RightKlik

It's a perspective that I find interesting. I don't agree with everything that I find interesting. Some of the debate hinges on the difference between belief in evolutionary sciences vs. Darwinism vs atheism.

What does Darwinism have to do with Atheism and which debate do you think you are attending?

1236 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 9:59:21pm

re: #1230 RightKlik

It's a perspective that I find interesting. I don't agree with everything that I find interesting. Some of the debate hinges on the difference between belief in evolutionary sciences vs. Darwinism vs atheism.

First- there is no "Darwinism"- this is a canard promoted by creationists.

Second- there is no "belief" in evolutionary sciences. One either accepts empirical data or not.

Third- atheism is another canard floated by creationists.

1237 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:00:08pm

re: #1220 RightKlik

I'm pretty much an agnostic myself. When it comes to Darwinism or Creationism or anything else, I say live and let live. What's wrong with that?

re: #1221 RightKlik

I think the biggest problems arise when people move toward the extremes: hard-core fundamentalist, creationist literalism one the one hand or hard-core atheism on the other hand. I think most people have the intellectual humility to put themselves somewhere in the middle.

Empirical science is not a matter of a popularity contest, nor should it be swayed by religious fervour. It does, and should, follow the facts to whatever conclusions they lead. To place oneself in the middle between the empirically correct and the empirically incorrect is a logical fallacy in which the MSM indulge; such gratuitous hedging should not be made part and parcel of public high school science education. We should not only be honest concerning what we DON'T know, but also honest concerning what we DO know. That way, and no other, lies pedagogical integrity.

And we know, from the empirical evidence, beyond a statistically rational doubt, that evolution via random genetic mutation and nonrandom environmental selection is what has resulted in the amaxing profusion of terrestrial species.

1238 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:00:41pm

re: #1234 freetoken

Nevertheless, when AGW is brought up in these ID threads I am quite convinced that we are being served part of the Wedge Strategy.

The DI is latching onto the issue specifically because it fits with their "questioning science" position.

1239 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:01:26pm

re: #1236 Sharmuta

You mad a great point, I shall refrain from using term 'Darwinism'.

1240 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:02:32pm

Here's a good quote that fairly accurately reflects my view:

...distinguishes between evolution, a scientific theory which is not hostile to religion, and Darwinism, which is a "metaphysical stance and a political ideology."

...When Darwinists like Dennett invoke evolution as an "all-purpose explanation in cosmology, psychology, culture, ethics, politics, and religion," they go far beyond the evidence. And in appropriating Charles Darwin's name, they actually do a disservice to it.

I regret that my earlier statements weren't as clear as I hope this quotes is.

1241 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:02:42pm

re: #1234 freetoken


Nevertheless, when AGW is brought up in these ID threads I am quite convinced that we are being served part of the Wedge Strategy.

Not the same wedgie I think, but perhaps one that needs some work to bring it into the fold of reason. I'm not entirely convinced that the sky is falling, but I think we can show that parts of it are. It would be stupid to simply say we should just sit back and see what happens, or as some say, let God deal with it.

1242 freetoken  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:03:52pm

re: #1238 Sharmuta

Exactly... they know how to ride a horse, and anything that can cause the general populace to question the value of science will be ridden.

1243 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:04:52pm

re: #1240 RightKlik

Let's make this real simple. Do you accept the veracity of evolution? Yes or no.

1244 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:06:12pm

re: #1230 RightKlik

It's a perspective that I find interesting. I don't agree with everything that I find interesting. Some of the debate hinges on the difference between belief in evolutionary sciences vs. Darwinism vs atheism.

Whether or not a metaphysical deity exists has absolutely nothing to do with the acceptance of valid, solid, sound, empirical-evidence-based science.

1245 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:07:34pm

re: #1237 Salamantis

"Empirical science is not a matter of a popularity contest, nor should it be swayed by religious fervour."

I agree wholeheartedly. And that is why I cannot understand why some people are so comfortable drawing conclusions that take them to either extreme. There is so much that we still don't understand about life and the origins of the universe that I think there is some room for tolerance for those who are fall on the agnostic portion of the spectrum.

(...and it's also why people who are on the global warming bandwagon discredit themselves when they brandish consensus statements that are supposed to close the argument on that issue.)

1246 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:08:14pm

re: #1243 Sharmuta

Yes, absolutely.

1247 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:09:24pm

re: #1221 RightKlik

I think the biggest problems arise when people move toward the extremes: hard-core fundamentalist, creationist literalism one the one hand or hard-core atheism on the other hand. I think most people have the intellectual humility to put themselves somewhere in the middle.


You haven't answered my question before, what does creationism or Darwinism as you call it have to do with atheism?

1248 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:11:35pm

re: #1244 Salamantis

well...okay. no reason to argue with that.

1249 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:11:46pm

RightKlik does seem open to further education on the subject. Lets try that route.

1250 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:13:08pm

re: #1234 freetoken

Nevertheless, when AGW is brought up in these ID threads I am quite convinced that we are being served part of the Wedge Strategy.

Yep. No less than when euroneofascists endeavor to hitch their wagon tongues to the antijihadist wagon train. Gratuitously attack what is unpopular, and defend what is popularly embraced, regardless of the facts and truth of the matters in question, so you can glom into popular approval, whether or not you merit or deserve it. It is a deeply cynical and manipulative strategy. It is taqqiya.

1251 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:13:13pm

re: #1245 RightKlik

There is so much that we still don't understand about life and the origins of the universe that I think there is some room for tolerance for those who are fall on the agnostic portion of the spectrum.

Science is not agnostic. Science strives to find the answers, not throw its hands up as if a naturalistic question cannot be solved through naturalistic means.

1252 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:13:47pm

re: #1247 Naso Tang

"You haven't answered my question before, what does creationism or Darwinism as you call it have to do with atheism?"

I'm not sure I understand the question...these are all different ideas. Maybe there's some overlap.

1253 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:14:41pm

re: #1249 MrPaulRevere

RightKlik does seem open to further education on the subject. Lets try that route.

OK

RightKlik- have you read The Wedge Strategy?

1254 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:14:54pm

re: #1220 RightKlik

I'm pretty much an agnostic myself. When it comes to Darwinism or Creationism or anything else, I say live and let live. What's wrong with that?

Ignorance of reality is alway bad, if not a personal wrong.

1255 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:15:34pm

re: #1249 MrPaulRevere

Also- we'll see. He's promoting bobby jindal on his blog.

1256 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:17:00pm

re: #1253 Sharmuta

OK

RightKlik- have you read The Wedge Strategy?

RightKlik, read all about the Wedge strategy, its an absolute must if you want to know all about the people pushing creationism in the public schools. Thanks Sharmuta.

1257 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:17:15pm

re: #1252 RightKlik

"You haven't answered my question before, what does creationism or Darwinism as you call it have to do with atheism?"

I'm not sure I understand the question...these are all different ideas. Maybe there's some overlap.

The question is simple. I'll repeat it.

What does Darwinism, as you define it (most people these days would refer to Evolution), have to do with Atheism?

1258 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:17:54pm

re: #1251 Sharmuta

"Science is not agnostic. Science strives to find the answers, not throw its hands up as if a naturalistic question cannot be solved through naturalistic means."

I'm saying that I'm agnostic. Science is of course the antithesis of agnosticism. But in areas where there are no final answers (yet), people who are predisposed to believe science, have no choice but to take an agnostic stance.

1259 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:18:05pm

re: #1256 MrPaulRevere

Always my pleasure, Archie.

1260 avanti  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:19:40pm

re: #1224 Charles

There have been several creationist fanatics at LGF who have said -- either outright or in veiled terms -- that I'm going to burn in hellfire for criticizing their pseudo-scientific hooey.

My response is usually: if heaven means spending eternity in the company of humorless ignorant fanatics like them, hell doesn't sound so bad.

Go to heaven for the weather, go to hell for the company.

1261 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:19:55pm

re: #1245 RightKlik

"Empirical science is not a matter of a popularity contest, nor should it be swayed by religious fervour."

I agree wholeheartedly. And that is why I cannot understand why some people are so comfortable drawing conclusions that take them to either extreme. There is so much that we still don't understand about life and the origins of the universe that I think there is some room for tolerance for those who are fall on the agnostic portion of the spectrum.

(...and it's also why people who are on the global warming bandwagon discredit themselves when they brandish consensus statements that are supposed to close the argument on that issue.)

Because of empirical evidence. Mountains and tsunamis of empirical evidence over the last 150 years support evolutionary theory, while not a single solitary shred of empirical evidence has been proffered that contradicts it. On the other hand, the empirical evidence contradicting AGW is causing more and more scientific researchers to flee its concluisions, barely 20 years after it was frst proposed.

In other words, evolutionary theory is some of the best and most evidentially supported science we have, and it is not empirically contradicted at all, while AGW is indeed science, but it is bad science, and the scientific community is quickly becoming more and more aware of the fact, and responding accordingly.

ID/creationism is not empirical science at all, but religious dogma, utterly bereft of any credible empirical evidence support whatsoever.

1262 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:21:03pm

re: #1257 Naso Tang

Repeating the question doesn't help. I was hoping you would elaborate. All I can say in response to the question as you have asked it is that for some people, atheism and Darwinism overlap, and for some people they don't. That's part of what makes this a difficult issue to discuss. Even for people who are trying to be intellectually honest, the definitions of these terms can be confusing.

1263 Lynn B.  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:23:44pm

re: #1240 RightKlik

Here's a good quote that fairly accurately reflects my view:

...distinguishes between evolution, a scientific theory which is not hostile to religion, and Darwinism, which is a "metaphysical stance and a political ideology."

...When Darwinists like Dennett invoke evolution as an "all-purpose explanation in cosmology, psychology, culture, ethics, politics, and religion," they go far beyond the evidence. And in appropriating Charles Darwin's name, they actually do a disservice to it.

I regret that my earlier statements weren't as clear as I hope this quotes is.

And where did that quote come from? Oh. From a review in the Weekly Standard (entitled "God's Advocate: Dinesh D'Souza goes the distance with the atheists") of D'Souza's book "What's So Great About Christianity." Helpful information.

"Darwinism" as a "metaphysical stance and a political ideology" is an straw man. There's no such thing.

1264 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:24:41pm

I like Bobby Jindal, but I have no interest in promoting creationism in schools. I strongly believe in separation of church and state. I am very glad that this concept is enshrined in our constitution. As with any other politician in the world, there are going to be issues on which I disagree. I have long been an agnostic and there's little chance that will ever change.

1265 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:26:02pm

re: #1264 RightKlik

I like Bobby Jindal, but I have no interest in promoting creationism in schools. I strongly believe in separation of church and state. I am very glad that this concept is enshrined in our constitution. As with any other politician in the world, there are going to be issues on which I disagree. I have long been an agnostic and there's little chance that will ever change.

Then it would trouble you to know he signed into law in Louisiana the means for creationism to be taught in his state?

1266 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:28:19pm

re: #1258 RightKlik


I'm saying that I'm agnostic. Science is of course the antithesis of agnosticism. But in areas where there are no final answers (yet), people who are predisposed to believe science, have no choice but to take an agnostic stance.

That is a difficult 3 sentences to answer, since you don't seem to know what you want to say.

You are agnostic, yet science is the opposite, so you are not scientific?

Science would not exist if there were no questions, but because there are questions you cannot be a scientist. ?

Would you care to clarify?

1267 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:29:42pm

re: #1256 MrPaulRevere

Hell is not my thing, don't believe in it.
THE WEDGE STRATEGY is not my thing, never heard of it, thanks for bringing it to my attention.

1268 MrPaulRevere  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:30:24pm

Dinesh D'Souza is a real piece of work. Isn't he the one who suggested making common cause with Islamic 'conservatives'?

1269 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:31:58pm

re: #1262 RightKlik

Repeating the question doesn't help. I was hoping you would elaborate. All I can say in response to the question as you have asked it is that for some people, atheism and Darwinism overlap, and for some people they don't. That's part of what makes this a difficult issue to discuss. Even for people who are trying to be intellectually honest, the definitions of these terms can be confusing.

I thought you were expressing your thoughts. No doubt many people are very confused on these matters. If you are not, all you need say is what you think, not what others may or may not think.

You made a statement somewhere back there that suggested you were one of the others. Perhaps we should just move on, since I hate to keep trying to explain myself like this, this late.

1270 Lynn B.  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:33:05pm

re: #1252 RightKlik

"You haven't answered my question before, what does creationism or Darwinism as you call it have to do with atheism?"

I'm not sure I understand the question...these are all different ideas. Maybe there's some overlap.

And yet you quote from a review (attacking atheists) of a book attacking atheism to "explain" your views on evolution.

If some of us here are having trouble taking you at your word, this is only one of the many reasons why.

1271 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:33:33pm

re: #1267 RightKlik

Read the Wedge.

Then there's much, much more such as Theistic realism

1272 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:35:20pm

re: #1270 Lynn B.

Sorry- you made me laugh there. Perhaps I've grown to accustomed to dishonesty on these threads.

1273 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:35:53pm

I am not agnostic on the issue of evolution. I believe that the issue is pretty much settled, maybe the details are fuzzy, but evolution is a process that has been thoroughly documented. It operates on large and small scales.

I am an agnostic on issues of the origin of life and the origin of the universe, not that science can't answer these questions, but because science can't answer these questions (yet).

I say that science is the opposite of agnosticism because science is about "knowing" and agnosticism is about "not knowing." I say that I am agnostic on some issues, not because I am anti-science, but because on those issues, I don't "know" enough to feel confident about my opinions or conclusions (or anyone else's).

1274 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:37:59pm

re: #1272 Sharmuta

Sorry- you made me laugh there. Perhaps I've grown to accustomed to dishonesty on these threads.

Why would you apologize for laughing? Are you in the same room?

:)

1275 Lynn B.  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:39:15pm

re: #1272 Sharmuta

Sorry- you made me laugh there. Perhaps I've grown to accustomed to dishonesty on these threads.

Dishonesty Sharm? On these threads? Why, I'm shocked! ;-)

Ok, I'm fried. A pleasant evening to all ...

1276 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:39:22pm

re: #1258 RightKlik

"Science is not agnostic. Science strives to find the answers, not throw its hands up as if a naturalistic question cannot be solved through naturalistic means."

I'm saying that I'm agnostic. Science is of course the antithesis of agnosticism. But in areas where there are no final answers (yet), people who are predisposed to believe science, have no choice but to take an agnostic stance.

Empirical science isn't a matter of belief (that area is reserved for religious dogmas). Instead, it is a matter of knowledge. People aren't required to BELIEVE in the contentions of empirical science; they can objectively and dispassionately peruse the empirical evidence for scientific contentions and come to realize and KNOW that they are valid and sound. But creationists who fail to raise their pet religious dogmas to the status of scientific theories relentlessly endeavor to reduce scientific theories to the level of religious dogmas - and they also fail at this futile task. The presence vs. the absence of supporting empirical evidence is a distinction that cannot be erased.

There are areas of empirical science that are as yet unsettled (and always will be, as empirical evidence continues to be derived). In fact, NO scientific answers can be declared as final IN PRINCIPLE, for such a decision would prevent subsequent data from augmenting, elaboriating, or refining existent theory. Scientific understanding evolves, and religious dogma does not. This is empirical science's strength, and religious dogmas' weakness.

But there are also areas that are settled beyond rational statistical doubt, due to the gargantuan preponderance of empirical evidence that supports them, and the utter dearth of empirical evidence that contradicts them. Heliocentrism is one such area, relativity theory is another, and evolution via random genetic mutation and nonrandom environmental selection is yet another. Just because we don't know EVERYTHING does not mean that we don't know SOME things.

1277 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:40:03pm

re: #1273 RightKlik

I don't "know" enough to feel confident about my opinions or conclusions (or anyone else's).

Sure seemed confident enough to state this earlier:

Whether Darwin would have approved or not, the godless ideas that he helped to establish are responsible for the decline in the value of human life during the 20th century.

You really expect me and others to believe you don't know your own opinion enough to speak your mind? If that's the case, perhaps you should speak less and think more.

1278 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:40:57pm

re: #1274 Naso Tang

Why would you apologize for laughing? Are you in the same room?

:)

I've been told I apologize too much and for things I don't need to apologize for.

I'm sorry. :p

1279 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:42:15pm

re: #1268 MrPaulRevere

Dinesh D'Souza is a real piece of work. Isn't he the one who suggested making common cause with Islamic 'conservatives'?

Yep.

1280 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:47:36pm

re: #1273 RightKlik

You definition of agnosticism is loosy loosy (excuse the grammar).

It refers to the metaphysical rather than the physical and you appear to confuse the two at a fundamental level, even while trying to grant credence to both.

Depending on the level you operate at, you can choose to reconcile both, without being agnostic, or you can choose to be agnostic in one and ignorant in the other.

(of course there are actually a few other possible combinations)

And now, based on my delayed typing and correction frequency, it is time to say goodnight.

1281 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:49:42pm

re: #1277 Sharmuta

"You really expect me and others to believe you don't know your own opinion enough to speak your mind? If that's the case, perhaps you should speak less and think more."

You got me, you win. I'm going to hell for "speaking too much and thinking too little."

1282 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:49:53pm

btw, Charles, can you please post EVO threads when there isn't a huge event such as the Super Bowl going on? I had friends over for the game, and it severely inhimbited my ability to respond to creationist posts in a timely manner...;~) Before or after would be fine.

/Just sayin'. Feel free to delete my slight attempt at guidance.

1283 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:50:33pm

re: #1280 Naso Tang

What confusion between physical and metaphysical?

1284 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:54:38pm

re: #1281 RightKlik

I did not say or even imply such a thing, nor would I. You're just proving your dishonest tactics with a comment like that.

1285 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 10:55:10pm

GAZE worthy, at this point.

1286 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:00:17pm

re: #1283 RightKlik

What confusion between physical and metaphysical?

The physical is the domain of empirical science, where evidence for or against an assertion can be produced. The metaphysical is the domain of dogmatic religion, which of necessity remains evidence-free. Once empirical evidence supporting a contention is produced, it is relocated within the realm of (provisional) knowledge, when empirical evidence falsifying a contention is proffered, it inhabits the realm of falsehood or untruth.

I say provisional, because while an empirical contention can be absolutely proven to be false by counterexample/contradictory evidence, it can never, in principle, be proven to be absolutely true, because this would prevent subsequent empirical evidence from improving upon the contention.

1287 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:02:31pm

re: #1284 Sharmuta

It was an attempt to make a joke.

I'm not being facetious when I say this: I stand corrected. I can't really back up some of my earlier statements. You guys have argued well and you beat me. It's not often that I make a statement that I can't defend, and this isn't the way I wanted to introduce myself to LGF. I'm much more interested in discussing fiscal conservatism than religion. I hope that I can come across as a credible person in future discussions.

1288 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:03:27pm

re: #1286 Salamantis

...so where (specifically) have I confused the physical and the metaphysical?

1289 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:04:36pm

re: #1287 RightKlik

You can start by doing your homework. Read the Wedge Strategy.

1290 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:06:34pm

re: #1289 Sharmuta

fine... i'll read it, but it looks boring.

1291 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:07:32pm

re: #1290 RightKlik

Revel in your ignorance then.

1292 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:14:47pm

THE WEDGE STRATEGY....
This is crazy. I don't support this. But really, it looks like the protocols of the elders of zion... where did it come from?

1293 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:19:34pm

THE WEDGE STRATEGY....
This sort of black-helicopter propaganda is really embarrassing.
So what I'm I supposed to take away from this education on the wedge strategy?

1294 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:20:35pm

re: #1288 RightKlik

...so where (specifically) have I confused the physical and the metaphysical?

By describing agnosticism as a physical stance, rather than a metaphysical one. Agnosticism, in its technical philosophical meaning, entails an eternal inability to know. In fact, agnosticism is a philosophical stance that correctly describes our enduring state of (non-)knowledge of the veracity of metaphysical dogmas. There are plenty of things we do not know about the physical world, but very few that are in principle unknowable (quantum indeterminacy is an example). On the other hand, there is NOTHING we can know about the metaphysical world with apodictic certainty; concerning assertions that address that realm, we can only choose either to believe or not to believe. Knowledge is forever beyond us there, but almost always not in principle beyond us in the physical world, which is why the term agnosticism in the vast majority of cases is more properly applied to the metaphysical rather than the physical realm.

1295 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:24:46pm

re: #1293 RightKlik

THE WEDGE STRATEGY....
This sort of black-helicopter propaganda is really embarrassing.
So what I'm I supposed to take away from this education on the wedge strategy?

That's the template that the creationists/IDers are following when they endeavor to illegitimately foist their pet religious dogmas upon public high school science classes. The wedge Strategy was written by Philip Johnson, the head honcho at the Discovery Institute, which spearhead the efforts to stealthily insinuate religious dogmas into public high school science class pedagogy.

1296 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:26:10pm

re: #1295 Salamantis

That's the template that the creationists/IDers are following when they endeavor to illegitimately foist their pet religious dogmas upon public high school science classes. The wedge Strategy was written by Philip Johnson, the head honcho at the Discovery Institute, which spearhead the efforts to stealthily insinuate religious dogmas into public high school science class pedagogy.

And that one Bobby Jindal swallowed whole and has now foisted on the state of Louisiana.

1297 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:28:50pm

re: #1294 Salamantis

I would say that I'm an agnostic on issues relating to origins of life and the universe, not because they will always be unknowable, but because I don't expect to live to hear any satisfying answers. So for me, for all practical purposes, these things are unknowable. Science isn't moving ahead that quickly.

1298 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:32:17pm

re: #1296 Sharmuta

Well I hope Bobby Jindal can soften his views on that issue, because I think he would be a great alternative to Obama, and I hate to see that one issue derail any potential that he might have to contribute to this country. I hope that people who have been burned and turned off by creationism can give Jindal a chance.

1299 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:34:02pm

re: #1298 RightKlik

It's too late- he signed an ID bill into law, and I'm not alone in my opposition to any presidential candidacy of his. I won't vote for him.

1300 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:35:02pm

I think Jindal is a reasonable and tolerant person and I don't think that creationists, IDers, agnostics, Darwinists or evolutionists have anything to fear from Jindal. Maybe I'm wrong. When Jindal runs, we'll find out.

1301 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:36:22pm

re: #1299 Sharmuta

I haven't researched his ID bill, so I can't say what I think. If he gets serious about running, I'm sure I'll have the opportunity to learn much more about that.

1302 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:36:36pm

re: #1297 RightKlik

I would say that I'm an agnostic on issues relating to origins of life and the universe, not because they will always be unknowable, but because I don't expect to live to hear any satisfying answers. So for me, for all practical purposes, these things are unknowable. Science isn't moving ahead that quickly.

It is important to realize that the term agnosticism has distinguishable meanings in common parlance vs. philosophical definition, much as the term theory has differential meanings in common parlance vs. scientific definition.

1303 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:36:52pm

And I'll be honest, RightKlik- I've lost patience with you. You want to know more about the Wedge, there's plenty of additional links in the Wiki link I gave. Go ahead and dig deeper if you want to know more. Then take your time and think about what it all means.

1304 justadot  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:39:58pm

re: #1297 RightKlik

OK, I'll try since the earlier responses haven't gelled with you. To your earlier question:

What confusion between physical and metaphysical?

Read this from your #1273:

I am not agnostic on the issue of evolution. I believe that the issue is pretty much settled, maybe the details are fuzzy, but evolution is a process that has been thoroughly documented. It operates on large and small scales.

I am an agnostic on issues of the origin of life and the origin of the universe, not that science can't answer these questions, but because science can't answer these questions (yet).

You mention these from the aspect of science -- whether it can answer a given question. By saying you're agnostic on these physical phenomena, you're putting them at the same level as a problem for metaphysics -- existence of G-d, is there an afterlife, etc.

That's confusion.

1305 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:40:09pm

Problem is...if Jindal doesn't work out because of religious issues, I don't know who else in the Republican party has much potential at this point. I really don't want to see Dems in power for the rest of the foreseeable future just because Jindal is accommodating creationism. Do you really think it would ruin the country to have Jindal as president?

1306 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:43:00pm

re: #1301 RightKlik

I haven't researched his ID bill, so I can't say what I think. If he gets serious about running, I'm sure I'll have the opportunity to learn much more about that.

The fact that the bill was substantially written by Discovery Institute operatives, the organization that authored the Wedge Strategy document, in order to circumvent the Dover decision, which forbade the teaching of creationism/ID in public high school science classes, is all that I need to know. That, and the text of the law itself, which allows teachers to introduce creationist propaganda into Louisiana public high school science classes under the camoflaging euphemism of 'supplementary materials.'

1307 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:44:05pm

I don't really care about "the wedge" to be perfectly honest, but you brought it up, I read the information to which you linked, and I was curious to know what you thought was most important. You seem to be excessively concerned about "the wedge." I'm sure that these wedge nuts will never get very far with their agenda; it's much too far away from the mainstream.

1308 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:45:45pm

re: #1305 RightKlik

He's not electable. Do some more background reading. Then there's the issue of the exorcism he witnessed. Rational moderates needed to win a national election will run from this man.

1309 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:46:30pm

re: #1306 Salamantis

Well, maybe Jindal doesn't have much of a chance. Maybe we'll be stuck with Obama forever. When Barack is done with his 8 years, he can pass the baton to Michelle. The circular conservative firing squad will ensure that they have no serious rivals.

1310 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:48:59pm

Yeah, I know about the exorcism. That one concerns me much more that the ID bill. Maybe I should support Obama. All the Republicans are crazy.

1311 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:49:56pm

Better a sane demagogue than an insane fascist.

1312 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:50:52pm

re: #1305 RightKlik

Problem is...if Jindal doesn't work out because of religious issues, I don't know who else in the Republican party has much potential at this point. I really don't want to see Dems in power for the rest of the foreseeable future just because Jindal is accommodating creationism. Do you really think it would ruin the country to have Jindal as president?

I would never cast a presidential vote for a politician who signed a bill into law the purpose of which was to circumvent the US Constitution in order to stealthily morph public high school science classes into Biblical Literalist Christian venues for the illegitimately authoritative shoehorning of creationist religious dogmas into the naive and gulllible minds of children at large, including the children of non-creationists. Smacks too much of madrassas to me.

1313 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:51:35pm

Sala- please knock some sense into this one- I've lost my patience.

1314 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:51:46pm

Has Mark Sanford witnessed an exorcism?

1315 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:52:56pm

There might be, you know, a *reason* Charles keeps saying this is a problem for the GOP.

1316 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:53:00pm

re: #1313 Sharmuta

I'm curious...is there any conservative that you could support?

1317 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:53:50pm

It depends, I suppose, on what you think is meant by "conservative".

1318 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:54:43pm

re: #1307 RightKlik

I don't really care about "the wedge" to be perfectly honest, but you brought it up, I read the information to which you linked, and I was curious to know what you thought was most important. You seem to be excessively concerned about "the wedge." I'm sure that these wedge nuts will never get very far with their agenda; it's much too far away from the mainstream.

You don't care about the coerced religious brainwashing of other peoples' children in public high school science classes? Such a thing does damage to the future scientific prospects of both our children, and, through them, of out country. And therefore endangers our country's future economic and strategic position in the world.

1319 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:57:27pm

re: #1309 RightKlik

Well, maybe Jindal doesn't have much of a chance. Maybe we'll be stuck with Obama forever. When Barack is done with his 8 years, he can pass the baton to Michelle. The circular conservative firing squad will ensure that they have no serious rivals.

If our alternative to Obama is Jindal, I will have to vote for Obama, as much as I despise most of his policies. But I consider this to be a false dichotomy. Surely the Republican Party must, and can, do far better.

1320 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:57:30pm

re: #1315 Sharmuta

You're probably right, I had no idea that people were so passionate about this issue. This thread has been very educational for me.

I think it would be helpful if libertarians could be a wee bit more tolerant of social conservatives. Libertarians and conservatives really need to stick together. This is one issue under which they should be able to coexist.

1321 RightKlik  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:58:05pm

re: #1319 Salamantis

uh... like who?

1322 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 1, 2009 11:59:49pm

re: #1311 RightKlik

Better a sane demagogue than an insane fascist.

For Jindal to sign a cryptocreationist education bill into law disqualifies him for the presidency in my view.

1323 RightKlik  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:00:39am

re: #1317 Sharmuta

I mean fiscally conservative.

1324 RightKlik  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:01:38am

re: #1322 Salamantis

For Jindal to sign a cryptocreationist education bill into law disqualifies him for the presidency in my view.

i get it. Is there any republican who would get your vote for president?

1325 Salamantis  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:03:21am

re: #1321 RightKlik

uh... like who?

We have a few years to figure that out. People shouldn't be supported simply because they are electable. Hitler was electable. We should only support presidential candidate who are truly worthy of election, and Jindal's creationist-pandering actions as Louisiana governor have in my view irretrievably disqualified him from such merit.

1326 Salamantis  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:04:32am

re: #1324 RightKlik

i get it. Is there any republican who would get your vote for president?

Giuliani, for one.

1327 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:05:00am

I like Rudy and Duncan Hunter.

1328 RightKlik  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:06:20am

Jindal is a Catholic and the Catholic Church has given the green light on evolutionary science, so it's hard for me to believe that Jindal is an enemy of evolution.

1329 Salamantis  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:07:37am

re: #1320 RightKlik

You're probably right, I had no idea that people were so passionate about this issue. This thread has been very educational for me.

I think it would be helpful if libertarians could be a wee bit more tolerant of social conservatives. Libertarians and conservatives really need to stick together. This is one issue under which they should be able to coexist.

We cannot be a little bit pregnant about this issue. Either creationist propaganda is allowed to be insinuated into public high school science classes, or it is not.

1330 RightKlik  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:08:09am

re: #1327 Sharmuta

Pretty good choices I think. I would voted for Rudy or Romney if I had had the opportunity.

1331 Salamantis  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:08:49am

re: #1328 RightKlik

Jindal is a Catholic and the Catholic Church has given the green light on evolutionary science, so it's hard for me to believe that Jindal is an enemy of evolution.

By their fruits shall ye know them. And we know all too well what Jindal has done as Louisiana governor.

1332 RightKlik  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:09:37am

re: #1329 Salamantis

We cannot be a little bit pregnant about this issue. Either creationist propaganda is allowed to be insinuated into public high school science classes, or it is not.

Tolerating creationist legislation is one thing, tolerating someone who signed a creationist bill is another.

1333 RightKlik  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:11:05am

re: #1331 Salamantis

By their fruits shall ye know them. And we know all too well what Jindal has done as Louisiana governor.

Jindal might soften or nuance (or even reverse) his stance on this issue. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

1334 Salamantis  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:11:27am

re: #1332 RightKlik

Tolerating creationist legislation is one thing, tolerating someone who signed a creationist bill is another.

The bill would not have become law without Jindal's signature. He bears resonsibility for his executive actions.

1335 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:12:24am

re: #1332 RightKlik

It shows extremely poor judgement on his part. He not only failed to understand the unintended consequences of signing that bill into law, he doesn't even understand his own Church's doctrines.

1336 RightKlik  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:12:36am

I gotta go guys, I'm on the east coast. Time to retire. Nice to meet you.

1337 RightKlik  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:13:20am

re: #1335 Sharmuta

Most politicians have made mistakes. Some mistakes are forgivable.

1338 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:13:50am

re: #1337 RightKlik

Defying the Constitution isn't one of them.

1339 Salamantis  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:13:51am

re: #1333 RightKlik

Jindal might soften or nuance (or even reverse) his stance on this issue. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

It's too late; I can't trust him now, any more than I could trust Bill Clinton not to fuck the next intern that entered his oval orifice, regardless of what he said or did post-Lewinsky.

1340 RightKlik  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:15:55am

No Jindal for Sharmuta or Salamantis. Got it. Maybe Rudy or Hunter. We'll see who runs. Never too early to speculate.

1341 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:16:51am

re: #1340 RightKlik

And more besides we two will oppose Jindal.

1342 RightKlik  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:18:02am

re: #1341 Sharmuta

And more besides we two will oppose Jindal.

I know, I've been reading.

1343 Salamantis  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:21:06am

Governmental creationist shilling is non-negotiable. It is a deal-killer for me.

1344 RightKlik  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:25:54am

re: #1343 Salamantis

Governmental creationist shilling is non-negotiable. It is a deal-killer for me.

I really thought there were two camps on this issue: "passionate creationists" and the "yeah, okay, who cares" crowd. I still think that most people are just a little bit pregnant when it comes to this issue. Although I now see that there is a robust anti-creationist crowd.

1345 RightKlik  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:28:21am

Who keeps giving me negative scores on my posts? You guys are relentless.

1346 Syrah  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:31:07am

re: #1345 RightKlik

Who keeps giving me negative scores on my posts? You guys are relentless.

Click on the number of your ratings. A pop up window will show you who dinged you up and who dinged you down.

This is a free-for-all party, but there is accountability.

And there are limits.

1347 RightKlik  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:35:16am

re: #1346 Syrah

Click on the number of your ratings. A pop up window will show you who dinged you up and who dinged you down.

This is a free-for-all party, but there is accountability.

And there are limits.

Thanks for the info.

1348 Nemesis6  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 3:58:33am

RightKlik, are you Ben Stein? Or possibly John Kerry? You flip-flopped from the whole "Science leads you to killing people" to accepting evolution, and then right back to Disco institute rhetoric. What the hell?

1349 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 8:05:42am
1350 medaura18586  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 8:38:38am

re: #127 revGDright

In any given time there are people who will seize upon whatever new idea is out there to try to make their case. In the 19th century, social thinkers co-opted evolution, the hottest new thing, to try to justify their racial theories. Darwin himself didn't contribute to his ideas being misused like that.

That's still conceding too much to the "Darwin ==> Hitler" crowd. As Charles mentioned, evolutionary books were banned and burned by Nazis, so nothing adds up.

In any case, how evolutionary theory could ever be rationalized to account for the demonizing of Jews escapes me. Empirical evidence alone, of intellectual achievements of Jews in the West prior to WW2, if interpreted through a geneticist lens, should lead, if anything, to speculations of Jewish racial supremacy. Jews had traditionally made the best businessmen and intellectuals in almost all European countries where they resided. Even parlayed to eugenicist ends, evolutionary theory could have never supported European anti-semitism.

Creationist stooges need to drop that position. Any serious dig into the causes of German anti-semitism, which they seem to invite, would likely lead to uncomfortable conclusions for them. If anything, the fringes of Lutheran Christianity are more to blame for this abominable social phenomenon than evolutionary theory ever can be concocted to be.

1351 Salamantis  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 8:50:25am

re: #1344 RightKlik

I really thought there were two camps on this issue: "passionate creationists" and the "yeah, okay, who cares" crowd. I still think that most people are just a little bit pregnant when it comes to this issue. Although I now see that there is a robust anti-creationist crowd.

We are not against creationists choosing to believe whatever they wanna believe, as contradicted by empirical evidence as it may be. It's a free country, after all. What we are against is them abusing public high school science classes in order to indoctrinate other peoples' children in their anti-science, reality-denying religious dogmas. Other peoples' kids should be free from the prospect of such unconstitutional sectarian brainwashing.

1352 medaura18586  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:12:55am

re: #1320 RightKlik

You're probably right, I had no idea that people were so passionate about this issue. This thread has been very educational for me.

I think it would be helpful if libertarians could be a wee bit more tolerant of social conservatives. Libertarians and conservatives really need to stick together. This is one issue under which they should be able to coexist.

That's a big load of crap. Libertarians-in-name-only are already following your "advice" anyhow: Ron Paul is a staunch pro-lifer, Bob Barr had been co-opted by Paul Weyrich to lead a crusade against Wiccans serving in the military, and Lew Rockwell is deep in bed with Gary North -- the would-be stoner of abortionist women -- and the League of the South, among other reactionary bigots (groups & individuals).

All so-called Libertarians who are jumping the SoCon wagon are self-selecting out of the ranks of intellectual sanity, and they all have one thing in common: they are not genuine Classical Liberals, but rather infantile libertine anarchists plagued by emotional problems with authority. The prospect they all really cream themselves over is the dissolution of the Union and the establishment of sectarian compounds (mini-states) where "everything goes": their hearts bleed over the extreme rights of "states" over the rights of the individual. Some version of radical micro-scale collectivism is glorified in their intellectual circles. And look at the Libertarian Party now... the fringe of the fringes.

Social Conservatism poisons every political agenda, though I am afraid it will take Republicans a while to figure it out: they still think they have plenty of fat they can afford to burn...

1353 J.S.  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:54:59am

A few brief comments on this dead thread. First, I think some here really do not understand early 20th century "realities." (far too much "viewing the past by virtue of today" --or "presentism" as it's termed by historians, and failing to understand what was thought back at the turn of the century...) Back in the 1900s (without clear understanding of how inheritance works, but knowing that certain "traits" were inherited), many scientists firmly believed in eugenics. (In Europe, there was a belief about "bad blood", and all sorts of diseases which today we know to be matters of infection, were believed to be inherited. Thus, syphilis was believed to be inherited as was epilepsy.) Secondly, whereas today we would state (probably emphatically) that a designation "unfit" or "degenerate" was a value-laden term to be avoided, in the early 20th century this was a medical designation with the full backing of "science." Please read this article...link here...about Eugenics and Public Health...Although this adopts an American perspective, these beliefs were world-wide and were taught at every university/academic institutions. Furthermore, to claim that "well all of this is just obviously pseudoscience" is to gravely misunderstand what occurred (it's like a dodge to deflect the role of "science" in the eugenics movement.) Third, I don't believe in some "either/or" debate about antisemitism's roots -- that it was rooted solely in certain Christian segments (and it wasn't just Lutherans, antisemitism was established within the Catholic church as well) -- vs the "scientific" community (ie, Social Darwinism, Eugenics, etc.) -- imo, antisemitism was evident in both...And lastly, I'll just refer to a footnote in the text, "Anatomy of Fascism" by Paxton, number 30, page 262 -- the footnote reads as follows: "Biological struggle as the key to human history, central to Hitler's worldview, was weaker in Italy..." the footnote futher concludes with "See Mike Hawkins, Social Darwinism in European and American Thought...p285-289..."

1354 Basho  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:59:15am

re: #1352 medaura18586

Wonderfully said. Favorited that =)

1355 SpartacusDk  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:02:49am

At the moment you can hear four fine programs about Darwin on BBC Radio 4.

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

1356 Salamantis  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:33:14pm

re: #1349 taxfreekiller

Classical Liberals are the introductory drug that enable mad dog commies like Obama and Pelosi etal.

This canard is as false as claiming that classical conservatives are the introductory drug that enables mad dog nazis like the late William Pierce's National Alliance and Don Black's Stormfront.

1357 Salamantis  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:46:44pm

re: #1262 RightKlik

Repeating the question doesn't help. I was hoping you would elaborate. All I can say in response to the question as you have asked it is that for some people, atheism and Darwinism overlap, and for some people they don't. That's part of what makes this a difficult issue to discuss. Even for people who are trying to be intellectually honest, the definitions of these terms can be confusing.

For many people, theism and evolutionary theory also overlap. They view evolution as the means by which God created the plethora of terrestrial species.

1358 Aye Pod  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:21:31pm

re: #1352 medaura18586


All so-called Libertarians who are jumping the SoCon wagon are self-selecting out of the ranks of intellectual sanity, and they all have one thing in common: they are not genuine Classical Liberals, but rather infantile libertine anarchists plagued by emotional problems with authority. The prospect they all really cream themselves over is the dissolution of the Union and the establishment of sectarian compounds (mini-states) where "everything goes": their hearts bleed over the extreme rights of "states" over the rights of the individual. Some version of radical micro-scale collectivism is glorified in their intellectual circles. And look at the Libertarian Party now... the fringe of the fringes.

I think that's the best short explanation of the Ron Paul phenomenon I've seen. All these seemingly random nutjobs wanted was a smaller pond to throw their weight around in. Their idea of utopia must be like the small town America of horror movies where visitors best watch out for the locals and their unusual 'ways'.

1359 Aye Pod  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:25:18pm

re: #1356 Salamantis

This canard is as false as claiming that classical conservatives are the introductory drug that enables mad dog nazis like the late William Pierce's National Alliance and Don Black's Stormfront.

Well, I hope that TFK finds the time tunnel portal that will take him back to the 1950's where he seems to have come from.

1360 medaura18586  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:42:33pm

re: #1358 Jimmah

I think that's the best short explanation of the Ron Paul phenomenon I've seen. All these seemingly random nutjobs wanted was a smaller pond to throw their weight around in. Their idea of utopia must be like the small town America of horror movies where visitors best watch out for the locals and their unusual 'ways'.

It took me a while to figure it out. For a Classic Liberal purist like me, Ron Paul sure had some charm. Once I scratched a bit under the surface though, it all came together. The consistency is simply amazing: We're not talking about an otherwise perfectly respectable person with some crazy ideas marring his judgment here and there. Everyone involved in the "Libertarian movement" reeks of anarchist, hyper-religious, racist sympathies. Plenty of Confederate-sympathetic revisionism too.

It breaks my heart how Lew Rockwell has usurped Ludwig von Mises's good name. He happens to be my favorite economist. These creeps are driving Libertarianism to the ground.

1361 Basho  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 6:58:59pm

re: #1359 Jimmah

Easy for you to say... You're not in the US, so you don't have to worry about the evil commies from NASA going after you.


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