Van Jones: I Am Not a Truther

US News • Views: 7,144

Obama’s “green jobs” official Van Jones has issued a statement about the claim that he’s a 9/11 Truther, promoted relentlessly today by Fox News: Controversial Obama Administration Official Denies Being Part of 9/11 ‘Truther’ Movement, Apologizes for Past Comments.

A top environmental official of the Obama administration issued a statement Thursday apologizing for past incendiary statement and denying that he ever agreed with a 2004 petition on which his name appears, a petition calling for congressional hearings and an investigation by the New York Attorney General into “evidence that suggests high-level government officials may have deliberately allowed the September 11th attacks to occur.”

Van Jones, the Special Advisor for Green Jobs at the White House Council on Environmental Quality, is Number 46 of the petitioners from the so-called “Truther” movement which suggests that people in the administration of President George W. Bush “may indeed have deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war.”

In a statement issued Thursday evening Jones said of “the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever.”

He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition.

“My work at the Council on Environmental Quality is entirely focused on one goal: building clean energy incentives which create 21st century jobs that improve energy efficiency and use renewable resources,” Jones said in his statement tonight.

Jones also said in his statement that “In recent days some in the news media have reported on past statements I made before I joined the administration – some of which were made years ago.� If I have offended anyone with statements I made in the past, I apologize.”

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1596 comments
1 noshariaincanada  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:37:18pm

he is a non-truther denier

2 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:38:23pm

If I have to choose between believing Van Jones or believing 9/11 Truthers, there's no contest.

Truthers lie constantly. It boggles my mind that people are willing to accept their word for anything.

3 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:38:44pm

So, how did his name get on it?

4 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:39:47pm
“My work at the Council on Environmental Quality is entirely focused on one goal: building clean energy incentives which create 21st century jobs that improve energy efficiency and use renewable resources,” Jones said in his statement tonight.

I'd like to see more detail from him on how this will work.

5 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:39:54pm

re: #3 MandyManners

So, how did his name get on it?

It's extremely common for 9/11 Truthers, creationists, and anti-AGW groups to add prominent people's names to lists like this without their knowledge.

6 Gmac  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:40:00pm

Sure, and I have this swell bridge for sale btw...

7 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:40:06pm

Troof or Consequences.

Van Jones has some baggage. But Charles is right, need better sourcing than the troofers.

8 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:40:16pm

re: #3 MandyManners

So, how did his name get on it?

It's possible it was done by someone with an axe to grind. How many times have we heard the stalkers are signing Charles up for various email lists, and spam mail? It's not hard to plug in a fake name on these online petitions.

9 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:40:32pm

re: #6 Gmac

Sure, and I have this swell bridge for sale btw...

So you're going to accept the word of a Truther website?

10 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:42:30pm
He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition.

I still want to hear him say: "I did not sign that petition."
/Doesn't matter though, he's under the bus by Thursday morning.

11 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:42:47pm

He does not know how his name came to be on the petition. Okay then. That solves everything.

It's nice that he's denying that he is now not a troofer, and that he was never a troofer, but how'd that name get on there in the first place.

All I know is that there's plenty of other reasons to think twice about this guy.

12 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:42:56pm

re: #8 Sharmuta

It's possible it was done by someone with an axe to grind. How many times have we heard the stalkers are signing Charles up for various email lists, and spam mail? It's not hard to plug in a fake name on these online petitions.

True. So why didn't he just say that ?

13 jantjepietje  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:42:57pm

I believe Van Jones should be out of the administration for giving himself a fake Dutch name but maybe that's just me

14 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:43:04pm

re: #5 Charles

It's extremely common for 9/11 Truthers, creationists, and anti-AGW groups to add prominent people's names to lists like this without their knowledge.

Sometimes even posthumously.

If a troofer tells me the sky is blue, you better damn well believe I'm going outside to check for myself.

15 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:43:50pm

“In recent days some in the news media have reported on past statements I made before I joined the administration – some of which were made years ago. If I have offended anyone with statements I made in the past, I apologize.”

Regarding the reporting of his statements un related to the petition, that is not an apology.

You could cut and paste that and use it for any politician of any persuasion trying to escape past assertions. It is utter mush, especially the "If I have offended anyone" conditional apology.

If a person has to condition an apology with an "if" it transfers culpability for the offensive action from the offender to the offended, in which case an apology is not in order.

Again - unrelated to trutherism. And unrelated to his political views. Just another non apology apology coming out of a moron in Washington. We've seen them from the right. We've seen them from the left. And such apologies always express contempt for those who have forced the mighty to apologize.

Pathetic.

16 jones  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:44:13pm

I am no relation to Van Jones. I do not know how are names are similar.

Just in case anyone wonders.

17 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:44:14pm

Repeating from the previous thread, a Black law partner & Harvard Law grad manages the USA's oldest and largest environmental law firm, based in Washington, DC.

Surely there are better qualified people to serve America's environmental interests than someone with a prison record and poor political judgment.

18 DeliLama  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:44:17pm

Years ago??? Years ago???

19 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:44:31pm

re: #13 jantjepietje

I believe Van Jones should be out of the administration for giving himself a fake Dutch name but maybe that's just me

"...Todd Gak? What is that, Dutch?"

20 jones  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:44:35pm

"our."

Sheesh

21 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:45:02pm

Still don't know what the truth is, but looks a lot like damage control to me.

22 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:45:33pm

re: #16 jones

I am no relation to Van Jones. I do not know how are names are similar.

Just in case anyone wonders.

I still think we should bite your pinky off.

/

23 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:45:45pm

Face palm.

I never thought I'd see the day when lizards were ready to accept the word of a 9/11 Truther website.

24 cronus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:45:47pm

Repost from previous thread:

When someone has truly been wronged in this kind of situation they typically issue a condemnation of the offending party and claim that "my name was used without my consultation or permission. I would have never agreed to have my name be a part of something so blah, blah, blah..."

It will be interesting to see how quickly the WH issues a follow-up statement to that affect. The longer it takes the more interesting this will get.

25 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:45:54pm

re: #12 SasquatchOnSteroids

True. So why didn't he just say that ?

This is what we have:

He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition.

How is he supposed to explain if he doesn't know?

26 jones  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:46:15pm

re: #22 karmic_inquisitor

I still think we should bite your pinky off.

/

Never can be too careful.

When in doubt, bite that finger.

27 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:46:26pm

re: #8 Sharmuta

It's possible it was done by someone with an axe to grind. How many times have we heard the stalkers are signing Charles up for various email lists, and spam mail? It's not hard to plug in a fake name on these online petitions.

* * * *
Charles Johnson is a SOMEBODY.

Several years ago, Van Jones was an Oakland community organizer, Black National Panther, Free Murdering Mumia supporter with a prison record.

Why would ANYONE have signed a NOBODY onto a Truther list?

28 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:46:41pm

re: #23 Charles

Face palm.

I never thought I'd see the day when lizards were ready to accept the word of a 9/11 Truther website.

I don't think folks trust Truthers, I think they distrust Van Jones.

29 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:46:42pm

Any word from the "fact checkers" at the Washington Times?

30 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:46:45pm

re: #5 Charles

It's extremely common for 9/11 Truthers, creationists, and anti-AGW groups to add prominent people's names to lists like this without their knowledge.

Can't those people legally force them to stop?

31 calcajun  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:46:57pm

Well. That just makes me feel so much better---about being what he described as an asshole.

I'm tired, cranky and need Scotch, but if this guy was a Communist and a truther and manages to be successful as a respectable political operative if not a politician, then there's hope for every pol out there that ever drank Creationist Kool-Aid. If this guy can burn his ideological bridges and turn over a new leaf, so can they. Charles still might not (and rightly, too) trust them, but Mr. Jones is proof personified that it can be done.

BTW-- back in the office again this weekend. Not a happy camper.

32 mfarmer1  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:47:07pm

re: #5 Charles

Sure, but given the other crazy conspiracy crap he's spewed very recently, not to mention his other insane rantings, I don't why why you are so skeptical.

Being a Truther would be mainstream for this guy. A step up.

33 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:47:10pm

re: #26 jones

Never can be too careful.

When in doubt, bite that finger.

Well - if you want to prove you are loyal to the cause you will have to slit your wrists.

/

34 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:47:19pm

re: #8 Sharmuta

It's possible it was done by someone with an axe to grind. How many times have we heard the stalkers are signing Charles up for various email lists, and spam mail? It's not hard to plug in a fake name on these online petitions.

I hadn't thought of that.

35 quickjustice  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:47:51pm

I'm amused, because Jones's denial will ignite a Truther rush to prove that he really was on board with them. That should be entertaining!

36 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:48:08pm

I'm more than happy to take Van Jones' word that he is an asshole.
I can believe that.

37 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:48:11pm

re: #32 mfarmer1

Sure, but given the other crazy conspiracy crap he's spewed very recently, not to mention his other insane rantings, I don't why why you are so skeptical.

Being a Truther would be mainstream for this guy. A step up.

Why am I so skeptical?

Because they are TRUTHERS.

Hello?

38 jones  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:48:32pm

re: #33 karmic_inquisitor

Well - if you want to prove you are loyal to the cause you will have to slit your wrists.

/


Then you can blame Newt Gingrich.

Everyone wins...

Except, me.. I guess.

39 calcajun  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:48:42pm

re: #34 MandyManners

I hadn't thought of that.

The idea of disinformation is not a new one.

40 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:48:57pm

re: #27 alegrias

* * * *
Charles Johnson is a SOMEBODY.

Several years ago, Van Jones was an Oakland community organizer, Black National Panther, Free Murdering Mumia supporter with a prison record.

Why would ANYONE have signed a NOBODY onto a Truther list?

Do we know when the name was put on the list?

41 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:49:03pm

re: #36 Van Helsing

I'm more than happy to take Van Jones' word that he is an asshole.

How bout green opportunist?

42 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:49:15pm

re: #4 jaunte

I'd like to see more detail from him on how this will work.

Here's his plan for green jobs. Apparently, he's been doing it for inner city kids for some time.

green jobs.

43 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:49:25pm

re: #27 alegrias

I find it more plausible than putting faith in troofers.

44 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:49:34pm

re: #39 calcajun

The idea of disinformation is not a new one.

When was the name added?

45 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:49:34pm

re: #29 CyanSnowHawk

Any word from the "fact checkers" at the Washington Times?

* * * *
The Federal Bureau of Investigation's incomplete security background check is what I want to know about.

46 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:49:41pm

re: #25 Sharmuta

He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition.

How is he supposed to explain if he doesn't know?

He said he didn't know ?

I didn't see that.

It would have read "He does not know how his name came to be on the petition."

And then it's over. There's nothing to see because it's all unprovable.

47 KennyR  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:49:48pm

re: #14 Slumbering Behemoth

And then the troofer will point out the chem trails.

48 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:49:51pm

re: #40 MandyManners

Do we know when the name was put on the list?

That's what I'd like to know too.

49 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:09pm

re: #27 alegrias

Why would ANYONE have signed a NOBODY onto a Truther list?

In the 46th position mind you.

50 quickjustice  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:14pm

Jones has pretty much confessed to everything else in his statement. But that was then, and this is now, and he's now part of the Obama Administration, so what happened then doesn't count, and he apologizes, and that makes everything all right./

51 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:17pm

re: #2 Charles

If I have to choose between believing Van Jones or believing 9/11 Truthers, there's no contest.

There is also the option of not having faith in either source. Maybe he's a truther, maybe he ain't. Either or both could be lying.

But I don't really care that much, because whether he is or isn't, there are plenty of other people in the Obama Administration with questionable views and pasts, views and pasts which have been reliably documented. On top of that, what's a[nother] truther, more or less?

52 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:26pm

re: #2 Charles

If I have to choose between believing Van Jones or believing 9/11 Truthers, there's no contest.

Truthers lie constantly. It boggles my mind that people are willing to accept their word for anything.

But what about this crucial sentence in the article:

"He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition."

He very pointedly fails to says that he didn't sign the petition. He simply glosses over that fact.

I suspect he did indeed sign it, and either:

a. Had no idea the significance of what he was signing; or
b. Is now backpedaling as best he can, without stating any obvious falsehoods.

So, basically, he doesn't deny being on the petition, just that he no longer (and never did) believe in what the petition stood for.

The Truthers have not been proven to be lying yet. Yes, they're Truthers, and completely demented as a result, but he signed on to their petition, and doesn't deny that he signed on to their petition, even now.

53 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:31pm

I've been wondering what a Special Advisor for Green Jobs does (besides advise about green jobs?) Does any authority come with the position?

54 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:38pm

re: #46 SasquatchOnSteroids

He said he didn't know ?

I didn't see that.

It would have read "He does not know how his name came to be on the petition."

And then it's over. There's nothing to see because it's all unprovable.

Take it up with the journalist who isn't writing to meet your needs then.

55 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:39pm

re: #32 mfarmer1

Sure, but given the other crazy conspiracy crap he's spewed very recently, not to mention his other insane rantings, I don't why why you are so skeptical.

Being a Truther would be mainstream for this guy. A step up.

When the sole source of this is the Troofers, there is plenty of reason to suspect the info, whether or not he appears to be the type that just might be one.

56 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:42pm

re: #3 MandyManners

So, how did his name get on it?

I'm sure a bed was involved.

57 calcajun  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:50pm

re: #44 MandyManners

Dunno. Find out, check signatures. The concept of "trust but verify" somehow does not seem applicable to information from a truther site.

58 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:52pm

re: #31 calcajun

Well. That just makes me feel so much better---about being what he described as an asshole.

I'm tired, cranky and need Scotch, but if this guy was a Communist and a truther and manages to be successful as a respectable political operative if not a politician, then there's hope for every pol out there that ever drank Creationist Kool-Aid. If this guy can burn his ideological bridges and turn over a new leaf, so can they. Charles still might not (and rightly, too) trust them, but Mr. Jones is proof personified that it can be done.

BTW-- back in the office again this weekend. Not a happy camper.

* * *
Thanks for keeping the economy aloft.

59 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:50:58pm

re: #27 alegrias

* * * *
Charles Johnson is a SOMEBODY.

Several years ago, Van Jones was an Oakland community organizer, Black National Panther, Free Murdering Mumia supporter with a prison record.

Why would ANYONE have signed a NOBODY onto a Truther list?

Because that's what they do.

60 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:51:13pm
61 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:51:15pm
62 ted  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:51:24pm

Green jobs 'czar' signed 'truther' statement in 2004

By Amanda Carpenter on Sept. 3, 2009 into The Back StorySubscribe
President Obama’s “green jobs czar” Van Jones has been targeted again and again by conservatives for his controversial views and now they’ll have another item to use as fodder.

Mr. Jones signed a statement for 911Truth.org in 2004 demanding an investigation into what the Bush Administration may have done that “deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war.”

His name is listed with 99 other prominent signatories supporting such an investigation on the 911Truth.org website, including Code Pink co-founders Medea Benjamin and Jodi Evans, comedienne Janeane Garofalo, Democratic Rep. Cynthia McKinney of Georgia and others. He's identified as the executive director for the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights on the statement, which he founded before going to the White House. The statement is available here. Mr. Jones is number 46.

9/11Truth.org spokesman Mike Berger told the Washington Times over the phone that all of the signers had been verified by their group. He said 9/11Truth.org board members “spoke with each person on the list by phone or through email or individually confirm they hae added their name to that list.”
“I think in most cases they spoke to them personally,” he added. “No one’s name was put on that list without them knowing it.”

Fox News personalty Glenn Beck has described Mr. Jones as a "radical" on his program and many conservative blogs have questioned his political tactics and strategies. Mr. Jones recently landed in hot water when a video surfaced of him calling Republicans a disparaging name at an energy lecture in Berkeley, California last February. He apologized for those remarks in an email to the Politico this week.

The White House has been contacted for comment and this blog will be updated with their statement when provided.

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

63 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:51:36pm

Always deny, deny, deny...

64 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:51:54pm

re: #23 Charles

Face palm.

I never thought I'd see the day when lizards were ready to accept the word of a 9/11 Truther website.

Just curious. Are you 100% sure Van Jones is telling the truth about the petition??

65 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:51:56pm

re: #23 Charles

Face palm.

I never thought I'd see the day when lizards were ready to accept the word of a 9/11 Truther website.

I'm not accepting their word. I'm going by Van Jones' own word -- a very noticeable absence of denying he signed the petition.

Confirmation through omission.

66 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:51:56pm

Unfortunately wingnut outrage is a self-supporting industry at this point. Too many people specialise in manufacturing it, like Malkin and Beck.

They'll continue in their Rumplestiltskin antics of spinning bullshit from out of nothing.

I don't expect Van Jones' denial to do anything other than create more rumours. The wingnuttiest will choose to believe the troofers, or simply invent more sinister associations for Jones. Others will say, 'Well, it's really all Obama's fault for not vetting the candidate enough.' Still others will say the whole mess is nonetheless the fault of the Obama admin for not predicting it, not doing enough to stop it, or somehow blaming them or their messaging for the wingnut freakout in the first place.

It's the lifecycle of wingnut outrage. It lives for one day like the mayfly, but lays a lot of eggs and there are always more mayflies.

67 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:52:00pm

Never quit a job unless a resignation is demanded

68 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:52:27pm

re: #42 avanti

Here's his plan for green jobs. Apparently, he's been doing it for inner city kids for some time.

green jobs.

Your video brought tears to my eyes. This one is troubling, but I'm sure you can excuse it.

69 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:52:44pm

re: #56 JamesTKirk

I'm sure a bed was involved.

Why, I oughta' *wh ah, never mind.

70 ted  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:52:55pm

"9/11Truth.org spokesman Mike Berger told the Washington Times over the phone that all of the signers had been verified by their group. He said 9/11Truth.org board members “spoke with each person on the list by phone or through email or individually confirm they hae added their name to that list.”
“I think in most cases they spoke to them personally,” he added. “No one’s name was put on that list without them knowing it.”

71 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:53:00pm

re: #52 zombie

That's how I see it.
I want to hear him say: "I did not sign that petition."
/Doesn't matter though, he's under the bus by Thursday morning.

72 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:53:13pm

re: #54 Sharmuta

Take it up with the journalist who isn't writing to meet your needs then.

ok then.

73 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:53:26pm

re: #52 zombie

Sorry, zombie. I'm really parting company with you on this one. I'm not a fan of Van Jones, but if he says he's not a Truther and doesn't subscribe to their craziness, I will absolutely believe him before I believe the Truthers.

Truthers lie. It's absolutely not a stretch to think they would put people on their stupid list under false pretenses.

74 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:53:31pm

re: #30 MandyManners

Can't those people legally force them to stop?

If those groups have no money or property, all you're going to get is a worthless judgment.

75 mfarmer1  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:53:45pm

re: #37 Charles

I know, I know. But look at the whole package Charles. It's not a stretch for this guy by any means. Look, if a Truther told me today was Thursday, I'd have to check my watch...twice. I get it. I'll move on here. Thanks.

76 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:53:47pm

re: #63 DrNaughty

Always deny, deny, deny...

And if this charge is actually false- what should he do? He's damned if he did and damned if he didn't with some crowds. Can deny it because denying it means he's lying- such bullshit.

77 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:53:48pm

re: #66 iceweasel

I'm glad to see you have found the cure for BDS, at long last.

/

78 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:53:56pm

re: #57 calcajun

Dunno. Find out, check signatures. The concept of "trust but verify" somehow does not seem applicable to information from a truther site.

I would have no idea how to verify something on the Internet if I didn't have access that that site's admin. page.

79 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:54:03pm

re: #71 unrealizedviewpoint

That's how I see it.
I want to hear him say: "I did not sign that petition."
/Doesn't matter though, he's under the bus by Thursday morning.

Obama's problem is that if he fires Van Jones, he opens up the dike for extreme criticisim of all the other nutjobs he has working for him...

80 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:54:06pm

re: #70 ted

Another lizard weighs in on the side of the Truthers.

81 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:54:07pm

What I don't see are the same folks on Van Jones' ass for thrutherism taking up the same issue with Ron Paul.

The guy is on video with a truther implying that an investigation is in order.

Maybe we can get uncle Ron to apologize.

82 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:54:10pm

re: #67 DrNaughty

Never quit a job unless a resignation is demanded

Cato would have a field day with that line.

83 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:54:21pm

re: #41 unrealizedviewpoint

How bout green opportunist?

Or as I heard. read, whatever on LGF some time ago: Watermelon - Green on the outside, Red on the inside.

84 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:54:28pm

re: #48 Sharmuta

That's what I'd like to know too.

We can trust Jones, he's advising our President & the government who are there to help us.

What the hell is the problem?

85 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:54:32pm

Who cares whether he's a troofer or not.

/there's plenty of evidence out of his own mouth that he's a nutty left wing radical hack, unfit for a White House advisor position

86 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:54:38pm

re: #27 alegrias

* * * *
Charles Johnson is a SOMEBODY.

Several years ago, Van Jones was an Oakland community organizer, Black National Panther, Free Murdering Mumia supporter with a prison record.

Why would ANYONE have signed a NOBODY onto a Truther list?

Simple. One of the other Oakland community organizers, Black National Panthers, and/or Free Murdering Mumia supporters might have been a troofer, added his/her own name, and then added in the names of his/her associates to pad out the list of signatures... Either from a deliberate intent to deceive, or from a naive assumption that all of his/her "right-thinking" associates must also be troofers.

87 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:01pm

re: #47 KennyR

And then the troofer will point out the chem trails.

Those aren't chemtrails, they be the Noodly Appendages of teh Almighty.

88 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:13pm

re: #85 Killian Bundy

Who cares whether he's a troofer or not.

/there's plenty of evidence out of his own mouth that he's a nutty left wing radical hack, unfit for a White House advisor position

Just him?

89 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:16pm

re: #52 zombie

But what about this crucial sentence in the article:

"He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition."

Exactly how is he supposed to explain that? How would he even know how it got there?

This is wingnutty parsing of his statement. And since when is teh word of 9/11 troofers ever evidence for anything-- unless it's evidence that the OPPOSITE of what they claim is true?

90 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:25pm

re: #62 ted You quote Glenn Beck. Ipso facto, QED, Jones must be truther.
///

91 Pianobuff  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:25pm

re: #46 SasquatchOnSteroids

He said he didn't know ?

I didn't see that.

It would have read "He does not know how his name came to be on the petition."

And then it's over. There's nothing to see because it's all unprovable.

The way I read it the origin of his alleged signature was not discussed - just that he disagrees with the Truthers and their positions.

Is it possible he could have signed it without realizing exactly what it was ("Hey it's against Bush...just sign it...etc.) and now that he does realize it he doesn't agree with it?

I only mention this possibility because the topic of the legitimacy of the signature is not discussed in the article - just his disavowal of the Truther position.

(unless I'm reading this wrong).

92 onslow  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:25pm

In a statement issued Thursday evening Jones said of “the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever.”

The petition was circulated five years ago. Notwithstanding the Truthers dubious relationship with truth, I wager he's lying.

93 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:29pm

re: #74 Flyers1974

If those groups have no money or property, all you're going to get is a worthless judgment.

You don't have to get a monetary judgment. You can get them to remove your name.

94 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:30pm

re: #28 unrealizedviewpoint

I don't think folks trust Truthers, I think they distrust Van Jones.

I don't trust either. I remain in the "maybe he is, maybe he isn't" column. Either way, there are bigger concerns.

95 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:37pm

re: #61 taxfreekiller

Reclaiming Revolution
history, summation & lessons from the work of
STANDING TOGETHER TO ORGANIZE A REVOLUTIONARY MOVEMENT
STORM

Published Spring 2004

Is there a link to go with that? It might be, 'interesting.'

96 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:38pm

re: #84 aboo-Hoo-Hoo

We can trust Jones, he's advising our President & the government who are there to help us.

What the hell is the problem?

Guilty until proven innocent, huh?

97 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:55:43pm

I'm more concerned about his knowledge of actual energy production and consumption.

His 'green' buzzwords are wearing thin.

98 ted  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:56:00pm

re: #80 Charles

Another lizard weighs in on the side of the Truthers.

not me...but theres's alot to make one believe that Jones may have...

99 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:56:09pm

re: #89 iceweasel

Exactly how is he supposed to explain that? How would he even know how it got there?

This is wingnutty parsing of his statement. And since when is teh word of 9/11 troofers ever evidence for anything-- unless it's evidence that the OPPOSITE of what they claim is true?

He is supposed to say he didn't sign it. And it pisses me off you call us wingnuts.

100 jones  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:56:11pm

Charles has a good point, never let a liar have a break. The troofers have done it to themselves.

Focus on Van Jones' (not jones jones') verifiable disqualifying faults.

101 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:56:42pm

re: #70 ted

9/11Truth.org spokesman Mike Berger...

Therein lies the rub.

When a snake oil salesman claims to have a cure for cancer, a "little" healthy skepticism is required.

102 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:56:43pm

re: #86 JamesTKirk

Simple. One of the other Oakland community organizers, Black National Panthers, and/or Free Murdering Mumia supporters might have been a troofer, added his/her own name, and then added in the names of his/her associates to pad out the list of signatures... Either from a deliberate intent to deceive, or from a naive assumption that all of his/her "right-thinking" associates must also be troofers.

That's a scenario I could grasp.

103 itellu3times  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:56:46pm

re: #11 lawhawk

He does not know how his name came to be on the petition.

Read carefully, the article never claims he does not know, only that he did not explain.

104 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:56:49pm

re: #100 jones

Charles has a good point, never let a liar have a break. The troofers have done it to themselves.

Focus on Van Jones' (not jones jones') verifiable disqualifying faults.

Like this?

105 ted  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:57:10pm

Jones has a checkered past...

106 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:57:10pm

re: #79 DrNaughty

Obama's problem is that if he fires Van Jones, he opens up the dike for extreme criticisim of all the other nutjobs he has working for him...

Van Jones will quietly resign just after The Address Wednesday night.

107 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:57:13pm

re: #10 unrealizedviewpoint

I still want to hear him say: "I did not sign that petition."
/Doesn't matter though, he's under the bus by Thursday morning.

I don't think he's going to make that statement. It would have been better to have made it today, but for some reason he chose not to. Perhaps he's telling the whole truth, and then one can reasonably infer that if he didn't agree with the petition, he certainly wouldn't have signed it. Ergo and concordantly, the Truthers made it up. On the other hand, maybe he's not telling the truth in which case the Truthers (unusually) are in the right this time. I simply don't have enough information on which to make a judgement call.

108 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:57:22pm
109 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:57:27pm

re: #42 avanti

Here's his plan for green jobs. Apparently, he's been doing it for inner city kids for some time.

green jobs.

Well it's a nice starting effort, but I don't know if the issues around replacing our primary energy sources will be affected much by a czar in charge of employing people to retrofit and insulate buildings.

110 RightOnTheLeftCoast  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:57:32pm

re: #81 karmic_inquisitor

What I don't see are the same folks on Van Jones' ass for thrutherism taking up the same issue with Ron Paul.

The guy is on video with a truther implying that an investigation is in order.

Maybe we can get uncle Ron to apologize.


Ugh! Luap Nor is a certifiable nutcase, and I wouldn't touch him with a 20-meter pole either. Trooferism is merely one of his traits that should make him an absolute pariah to any sensible conservative or libertarian (small "L"... not the loony 3rd/4th/5th/whatevah party)

111 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:57:38pm

re: #70 ted

"9/11Truth.org spokesman Mike Berger told the Washington Times over the phone that all of the signers had been verified by their group. He said 9/11Truth.org board members “spoke with each person on the list by phone or through email or individually confirm they hae added their name to that list.”
“I think in most cases they spoke to them personally,” he added. “No one’s name was put on that list without them knowing it.”

Again, if a troofer tells me the sky is blue, you better damn well believe that I'll go outside and check for myself before I ever take a troofer's word on anything.

112 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:57:49pm

re: #79 DrNaughty

Obama's problem is that if he fires Van Jones, he opens up the dike for extreme criticisim of all the other nutjobs he has working for him...

* * *
You say that like it's a bad thing. NOT!

113 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:58:20pm

re: #80 Charles

Another lizard weighs in on the side of the Truthers.

Are you certain this didn't prove your point Charles? It seems to indicate that the Washington Times method of fact checking was to talk to someone at 9/11truth.org and take their word for it.

114 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:58:56pm

re: #112 alegrias

* * *
You say that like it's a bad thing. NOT!

It's a bad thing for Bob Gibbs (AKA Baghdad Bob)...

115 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:59:11pm
Asked why Republicans asserted more control of the Senate when they had a smaller majority before 2006, Jones said "the answer to that is, they're a--holes." He added that President Obama is not an a--hole, but, "I will say this. I can be an a--hole, and some of us who are not Barack Hussein Obama are going to have to start getting a little bit uppity."

Assholes.
Uppity.
Jones is certainly a class act.

116 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:59:14pm

re: #113 CyanSnowHawk

Are you certain this didn't prove your point Charles? It seems to indicate that the Washington Times method of fact checking was to talk to someone at 9/11truth.org and take their word for it.

Piss-poor journalism.

117 ted  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:59:22pm

re: #101 jcm

Therein lies the rub.

When a snake oil salesman claims to have a cure for cancer, a "little" healthy skepticism is required.

I agree that these people have little credibility...They believe in a lie...

118 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 6:59:50pm

re: #2 Charles

If I have to choose between believing Van Jones or believing 9/11 Truthers, there's no contest.

Truthers lie constantly. It boggles my mind that people are willing to accept their word for anything.

I think it comes from the August '01 Intelligence Report delivered to Bush at the ranch. His response to it was, to say the least, docile. The Troofers jumped on that fact as being a smoking gun that proved that the Admin was in on the attack. Jones may have made similar comments about the initial response to the Report and thus was thus embraced as a fellow traveller. The Troofers went on to construct a whole whack conspiracy theory, of course, which Jones didn't endorse. So his denial is probably accurate.

While Bush's response was less than ideal (obviously), I think it came from his tenure as GM of the Rangers where one August, he traded for Oil Can Boyd as his fifth starter. That didn't work out at all well, and I just figure he decided that inaction in August was probably prudent.

;-)

119 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:00:00pm

re: #17 alegrias

Repeating from the previous thread, a Black law partner & Harvard Law grad manages the USA's oldest and largest environmental law firm, based in Washington, DC.

Surely there are better qualified people to serve America's environmental interests than someone with a prison record and poor political judgment.

Could I get a link to his prison record ? I know about this:

"In 1992, while still a law student at Yale, Jones participated as a volunteer legal monitor for a protest of the Rodney King verdict in San Francisco. He and many other participants in the protest were arrested. The district attorney later dropped the charges against Jones. The arrested protesters, including Jones, won a small legal settlement. Jones later said that "the incident deepened my disaffection with the system and accelerated my political radicalization."

but was unaware he did hard time.

120 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:00:01pm

re: #93 MandyManners

You don't have to get a monetary judgment. You can get them to remove your name.

True, and they would face contempt of court if they didn't, but what's that worth? They can create another organization and another list and put the names on once again. It's probably not something worth chasing for those celebreties.

121 jones  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:00:07pm

re: #104 kansas


Lawrence Summers said we should dump toxic waste in Africa, as disease and poverty would kill "them" before our waste would.

Will be a tense meeting at the WH>

122 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:00:11pm

re: #70 ted

"9/11Truth.org spokesman Mike Berger told the Washington Times over the phone that all of the signers had been verified by their group. He said 9/11Truth.org board members “spoke with each person on the list by phone or through email or individually confirm they hae added their name to that list.”
“I think in most cases they spoke to them personally,” he added. “No one’s name was put on that list without them knowing it.”

If you already believe in the Truthers' veracity, then this is convincing. If you don't it's not worth anything.

123 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:00:30pm

re: #88 DrNaughty

Just him?

re: #120 Flyers1974

True, and they would face contempt of court if they didn't, but what's that worth? They can create another organization and another list and put the names on once again. It's probably not something worth chasing for those celebreties.

Well, no actually.

/Obama seems to have a penchant for surrounding himself with advisors of, shall we say, questionable backgrounds and qualifications, that routine vetting would normally disqualify

124 calcajun  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:00:55pm

re: #58 alegrias

I feel alone. So alone./

125 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:01:06pm

re: #102 MandyManners

That's a scenario I could grasp.

… ;)

126 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:01:11pm

Folks - try to see these things as artifacts.

The artifact "Van Jones signed a Truther petition" has little verifiable factual basis. Only two parties can verify it - Van Jones and the Truthers. Regarding that artifact, if Van Jones denies it then it should not be admissible to Lizard Court on the basis that the Truthers are willing to testify that he did.

That artifact is dead. That doesn't mean that Van Jones is off the hook for being an asshole on a whole lot of other fronts - like his "apology" for past statements which "might have offended". Signature apology of an asshole.

127 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:01:29pm

re: #92 onslow

In a statement issued Thursday evening Jones said of “the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever.”

The petition was circulated five years ago. Notwithstanding the Truthers dubious relationship with truth, I wager he's lying.

Please! He clearly means the petition that has been circulating around media and news organisations today!
Your lack of reading comprehension is not evidence that he's 'lying'. It's evidence that you'll go to extraordinary lengths to find somehow, someway, to believe what you want about this guy-- and some way, anyway, to have a reason for latching onto ANY rumour.

ODS much?

128 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:01:42pm

re: #121 jones

Lawrence Summers said we should dump toxic waste in Africa, as disease and poverty would kill "them" before our waste would.

Will be a tense meeting at the WH>

Link?

129 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:01:53pm

re: #96 Sharmuta

Guilty until proven innocent, huh?

You said it, not me.

I frankly don't give a crap whether he's a troofer or not.

130 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:01:57pm
131 funky chicken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:02:11pm

re: #32 mfarmer1

Sure, but given the other crazy conspiracy crap he's spewed very recently, not to mention his other insane rantings, I don't why why you are so skeptical.

Being a Truther would be mainstream for this guy. A step up.

LOL. Sad, but perhaps true. I wonder if he thinks vaccines cause autism? That's a pretty popular belief among fringies of the right and the left.

132 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:02:12pm

I don't give two shits if jones is a truther or not. And out of Lizardian fairness, I'm going to assume he is not a truther. But I have heard enough of jones' own words and seen enough evidence of unsavory organizations he is aligned with to know that I don't like his act one bit.

Obama can be judged in part by the appointments he makes and this one smells bad ... period.

133 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:02:35pm
re: #88 DrNaughty

Just him?

re: #120 Flyers1974

True, and they would face contempt of court if they didn't, but what's that worth? They can create another organization and another list and put the names on once again. It's probably not something worth chasing for those celebreties.

Not sure how that snuck in there.

Well, no actually.

/Obama seems to have a penchant for surrounding himself with advisors of, shall we say, questionable backgrounds and qualifications, that routine vetting would normally disqualify

134 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:02:43pm

re: #120 Flyers1974

True, and they would face contempt of court if they didn't, but what's that worth? They can create another organization and another list and put the names on once again. It's probably not something worth chasing for those celebreties.

Someone needs to stop this rubbish. It's libel.

135 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:02:47pm

Only 3 years, 5 months till inauguration day.

136 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:02:54pm
137 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:02:56pm

re: #123 Killian Bundy

Well, no actually.

/Obama seems to have a penchant for surrounding himself with advisors of, shall we say, questionable backgrounds and qualifications, that routine vetting would normally disqualify

Which is why he decided not to go though the congressional vetting process after his first several nominees were found to be lacking in... paying taxes among other things.

Just announcing presidential advisers puts the kind of people Obama wants around him without exposing their backgrounds to the public

... or to the FBI...

138 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:06pm

re: #116 MandyManners

Piss-poor journalism.

Confirms Charles' opinion of them that he gave yesterday in one of the other Van Jones discussions.

139 itellu3times  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:11pm

re: #129 aboo-Hoo-Hoo

I frankly don't give a crap whether he's a troofer or not.

amen.

140 ted  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:15pm


Fox News Notes Communist Past of the 'Green Jobs' Czar

By Sam Theodosopoulos (Bio %P% Archive)


July 10, 2009 - 17:16 ET
The administration’s “Green Jobs” czar, Van Jones, has a “very checkered past” deep-rooted in radical politics, including black nationalism, anarchism, and communism. The broadcast network newscasts have mostly failed to report on Mr. Jones’s past political affiliations which are lock-step with the network’s downplay of coverage regarding President Obama’s associations with the former radical and terrorist William Ayers during the election.

At 6:47 a.m. EDT on the July 10 edition of “Fox and Friends,” Americans for Prosperity Policy Director Phil Kerpen, told interviewer Brian Kilmeade that Jones is “somebody who was involved in radical politics in San Francisco, “who was self-admittedly “radicalized in jail” and found “Communism and anarchism.” Kerpen compares Van Jones’s Communist past with his new quest for environmentalism and the creation of green jobs:
I think it’s pretty instructive what his past is...it’s the same sort of philosophy, the idea that government ought to be reordering society in accordance with some utopian vision that failed with communism and socialism, and will fail with this green jobs idea.
In an April 12, 2009 World Net Daily article titled “Will a “red” help blacks go green?”Aaron Klein reports that Jones himself stated in a 2005 interview his environmental activism was a means to fight for racial and class “justice,” and that he was a “rowdy black nationalist,” and a “communist.”

Because the administration’s “czars” do not go through congressional confirmation, and are therefore not scrutinized or vetted, many Americans have no idea who they are or where they come from.

Kudos to Fox News for bringing Van Jones’s controversial past and political ideology to light.

The following was aired on the July 10 edition of Fox and Friends:

BRIAN KILMEADE, co-host, “Fox and Friends”: Phil, we have a czar, he’s a green jobs czar, he’s Van Jones, he’s got a deep history in communism.

PHIL KERPEN, AFP Policy Director: He does. He has a very checkered past. This is somebody who was involved in radical politics out in San Francisco, California. He was arrested during a demonstration/riot following the Rodney King verdict. And he said himself that he was radicalized in jail, that he found communism and anarchism. And then he started a pretty radical, kind of communist, socialist, utopian group that was supposed to end all racism though central planning. And then he decided that the real path the sort of progressive nirvana, was the this green jobs idea. I think its pretty instructive what his past is, I am not just trying to smear the guy, but I think it’s the same sort of philosophy, the idea that government ought to be reordering society in accordance with some utopian vision that failed with communism and socialism, and will fail with this green jobs idea. We are imposing a top-down vision.

GRETCHEN CARLSON, co-host: And more importantly for America Phil, is the fact that we already have an Energy Secretary, who by the way had to go through Congress to be approved. And the reason that these czars, you don’t know anything about them, is because they don’t have to go through that process.

[Link: newsbusters.org...]

141 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:18pm

re: #120 Flyers1974

True, and they would face contempt of court if they didn't, but what's that worth? They can create another organization and another list and put the names on once again. It's probably not something worth chasing for those celebreties.

And, yes, one's good name IS worth fighting for.

142 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:20pm

re: #115 Spare O'Lake

Assholes.
Uppity.
Jones is certainly a class act.

* * * *
Post partisan, post racial, my ass.

Communists were famous for wanting to wreak REVENGE. They were same shit, different flies, and big fat pigs at the trough, when they got their hands on the treasury. I have SEEN and experienced Spanish communists do this personally and up close.

143 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:20pm

re: #136 taxfreekiller

Obama is the problem not this kook nut case Van Jones.

Focus.

Van Jones is a symptom of the disease...

144 funky chicken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:24pm

re: #107 John Neverbend

they deserve each other, IMHO

145 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:28pm

Is Van Jones an American citizen?

Has anyone...checked?

146 DeliLama  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:33pm
In recent days some in the news media have reported on past statements I made before I joined the administration – some of which were made years ago.


This is the key part of his statement. Essentially an admission of guilt.

147 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:41pm

It shouldn't be too hard.

The troofers hand the petition with signature in question to a independent 3rd party for hand writing analysis.

Or come up with independent verification.

Like so much else going on, there's enough baggage with Van Jones. This is like a the nirth certifikate, a red herring, to get all eyes off the real issues.

148 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:43pm

Green for All

The organization launched in September 2007 at the Clinton Global Initiative, when Jones appeared to announce Green for All's commitment to securing one billion dollars by 2012 to create "green pathways out of poverty" for 250,000 people in the United States.

Well done Van Jones. Spend $4000 bucks per imaginary job in an imaginary industry.

I bet the management consulting fees and opportunities for cronyism are substantial.

149 calcajun  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:51pm

re: #78 MandyManners

meant generally. Don't know how else without a subpoena.

150 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:03:59pm

re: #125 JamesTKirk

… ;)

Oh, you.

151 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:04:06pm

re: #133 Killian Bundy

Well, no actually.

/Obama seems to have a penchant for surrounding himself with advisors of, shall we say, questionable backgrounds and qualifications, that routine vetting would normally disqualify

Then he throws them under the bus when they become inconvenient and we move on.

152 ladycatnip  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:04:16pm

#104 kansas

Thanks for the video. This guy is out there. "White polluters" steering polution to the black communities. Now there's paranoia for ya. So why wouild we give him any credit when he believes this nonsense.

153 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:04:25pm

re: #123 Killian Bundy

Well, no actually.

/Obama seems to have a penchant for surrounding himself with advisors of, shall we say, questionable backgrounds and qualifications, that routine vetting would normally disqualify

Perhaps he just doesn't care. After all, he won.

154 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:04:41pm
155 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:04:58pm

re: #146 DeliLama

This is the key part of his statement. Essentially an admission of guilt.

It was an affirmation and basically a F U because I'm an arrogant progressive that knows what is good for you...

156 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:05:06pm

re: #79 DrNaughty

Obama's problem is that if he fires Van Jones, he opens up the dike

Do not make Hillary joke.
Do not make Hillary joke.
Do not make Hillary joke.

157 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:05:08pm

re: #73 Charles

Sorry, zombie. I'm really parting company with you on this one. I'm not a fan of Van Jones, but if he says he's not a Truther and doesn't subscribe to their craziness, I will absolutely believe him before I believe the Truthers.

Truthers lie. It's absolutely not a stretch to think they would put people on their stupid list under false pretenses.

He may not subscribe to their craziness. If he says so now, well, we should accept that. I'm only talking about whether or not he actually allowed his name to be put on the petition back in 2004. He may very well had little idea what he was getting involved in, nor that he one day would have to answer for it.

If he had said, "OK, look, I was swept up in radical politics back then, and put my name on a lot of stupid petitions I hardly looked at and didn't even read. I'm sorry. I retract that position of mine, and now state uncategorically that Trutherism is a falsehood," then the issue would pass. But by kind of glossing over the key details, he leaves open a window of doubt.

Of course, I doubt really care about this issue very much, because "Green Jobs Czar" is such a minor position, and to be frank any potential Trutherism on Jones' part is the least embarrassing aspect of his resume.

I will say though that there was a fusion between the nascent Truth movement back then and the grievance theater black nationalism of which Joens was a part at the time, and many people in the Oakland Uhuru scene latched on to the Truther meme and melded it with the minority-victimization meme.

Katrina kind of supplanted that. But 2004 is the precise year that someone like Jones would sign a petition like that. So to me it's not an outrageous claim.

Jones is protean and shifts with the times. Trutherism was hip in 2004; now it's not.

I accept his statement that he does believe in it anymore. But he never actually addressed the issue of how his name got on the petition.

158 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:05:22pm

re: #145 Ben Hur

I want to see his nirth certifikate, and I don't want any lolrus eated it excuses either.

159 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:05:22pm

re: #136 taxfreekiller

Obama is the problem not this kook nut case Van Jones.

Focus.

Study the moon, not the finger.

Or you will miss all the heavenly glory.

160 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:05:31pm

re: #145 Ben Hur

Is Van Jones an American citizen?

Has anyone...checked?

He wasn't born, he's Obama's clone...

161 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:05:40pm

Can we invoke the 24 hour rule? Van Jones says he doesn't know how his name got on the list. The truthers (and Beck, Fox, the Times, etc) will either find further evidence that he supported them , or Van Jones will issue a more detailed denial.
In 2004, the 9-11 MIHOP / LIHOP (made it or let it happen) theory was very strong in monbat circles. Check DU back then. That doesn't prove Jones signed the petition, but it would not surprise me if he had.

162 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:05:57pm

re: #71 unrealizedviewpoint

That's how I see it.
I want to hear him say: "I did not sign that petition."
/Doesn't matter though, he's under the bus by Thursday morning.

If the Washington Times was accurate, no one signed, they were put on a list if they agreed by phone. Now the question is, did they fully know what list their name was being added to.
If you trust the truthers to be honest in describing their goals, I feel sorry for you.

163 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:06:10pm

re: #136 taxfreekiller

Obama is the problem not this kook nut case Van Jones.

Focus.

Excellent TFK!

164 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:06:19pm

re: #160 jcm

He wasn't born, he's Obama's clone...

Is there a requirement for a Presidential Advisor to be a citizen?

165 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:06:32pm

re: #161 Jim in Virginia

Can we invoke the 24 hour rule? Van Jones says he doesn't know how his name got on the list. The truthers (and Beck, Fox, the Times, etc) will either find further evidence that he supported them , or Van Jones will issue a more detailed denial.
In 2004, the 9-11 MIHOP / LIHOP (made it or let it happen) theory was very strong in monbat circles. Check DU back then. That doesn't prove Jones signed the petition, but it would not surprise me if he had.

Where does he say that?

166 KennyR  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:06:36pm

re: #87 Slumbering Behemoth

Please, if you have any decency you will not let anymore cats out of the bag.

167 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:06:59pm

re: #137 DrNaughty

Just announcing presidential advisers puts the kind of people Obama wants around him without exposing their backgrounds to the public

... or to the FBI...

/ironically, because of his admitted past, Obama would never be able to hold any level security clearance except for the fact that he's, well, the elected President

168 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:07:02pm

"It's just a fucking june bug, calm down. Jesus Christ, what happens when something bigger than a testicle attacks you?"

169 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:07:08pm

re: #135 unrealizedviewpoint

Only 3 years, 5 months till inauguration day.

FOR HEAVENS SAKE, DO NOT TURN ON BEK OR THE RADIO!!!

/sky falling shit

170 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:07:32pm

re: #80 Charles

Another lizard weighs in on the side of the Truthers.

It is part and parcel of being a lying scumbag. If you are lying? If you are telling the troof? No one knows for sure.

So they error on the side of lying.

171 jones  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:07:49pm

re: #128 kansas

Link?


[Link: www.whirledbank.org...]


[Link: www.bing.com...]

172 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:07:55pm

re: #89 iceweasel

Exactly how is he supposed to explain that? How would he even know how it got there?

This is wingnutty parsing of his statement. And since when is teh word of 9/11 troofers ever evidence for anything-- unless it's evidence that the OPPOSITE of what they claim is true?

It is not wingutty parsing of his statement. The issue at hand was: How did your name get on that petition? He never answered that. He only answered the larger question of whether or not he is a Truther.

I will admit however that this is certainly a tempest in a teapot, a mountain out of a molehill. A very trivial issue blown way out of proportion.

173 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:07:58pm

re: #135 unrealizedviewpoint

Only 3 years, 5 months till inauguration day.

* * * *
Less than sixty days until election day in Virginia and New Jersey.

Do what you can to help, please.

174 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:08:05pm

Greenjob.

175 The Shadow Do  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:08:07pm

Until proven otherwise I give zero credibility to the Truther nonsense.

Until proven otherwise I give 100% credibility to this cat being a radical.

Big shock there, eh? Why in the world would anyone expect anything but a claven of radicals serving the Whitehouse, we elected the man knowing full well where he was coming from. Tha, tha, tha, tha, tha's all folks!

Enjoy the picture!

176 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:08:08pm

re: #167 Killian Bundy

/ironically, because of his admitted past, Obama would never be able to hold any level security clearance except for the fact that he's, well, the elected President

Joe Biden is looking better and better...

177 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:08:12pm

re: #162 avanti

If the Washington Times was accurate, no one signed, they were put on a list if they agreed by phone. Now the question is, did they fully know what list their name was being added to.
If you trust the truthers to be honest in describing their goals, I feel sorry for you.

I never said I trusted the Truthers. I clearly said I didn't trust Jones. Big difference Big Boy.

178 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:08:16pm

re: #126 karmic_inquisitor

Folks - try to see these things as artifacts.

The artifact "Van Jones signed a Truther petition" has little verifiable factual basis. Only two parties can verify it - Van Jones and the Truthers. Regarding that artifact, if Van Jones denies it then it should not be admissible to Lizard Court on the basis that the Truthers are willing to testify that he did.

That artifact is dead. That doesn't mean that Van Jones is off the hook for being an asshole on a whole lot of other fronts - like his "apology" for past statements which "might have offended". Signature apology of an asshole.

Exactly right. My issue is that he could've put a dagger through its' heart just by saying "I have no idea how my name appeared on that list." Unless someone freakin' taped him signing the thing, it's over and we move on to something else. He didn't do that.

179 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:08:19pm

re: #164 DrNaughty

Is there a requirement for a Presidential Advisor to be a citizen?

Henry Kissinger was not a natural born citizen, but became one later. I don't think it matters.

180 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:08:27pm

re: #161 Jim in Virginia

Can we invoke the 24 hour rule? Van Jones says he doesn't know how his name got on the list. The truthers (and Beck, Fox, the Times, etc) will either find further evidence that he supported them , or Van Jones will issue a more detailed denial.
In 2004, the 9-11 MIHOP / LIHOP (made it or let it happen) theory was very strong in monbat circles. Check DU back then. That doesn't prove Jones signed the petition, but it would not surprise me if he had.

I've been searching all day for confirmation that Jones is a Truther. If it was true, I was ready to join in the calls for him to resign.

I turned up NOTHING. I found absolutely NO evidence that he's ever said anything to anyone that supports 9/11 Trutherism.

The accusation is completely bogus.

181 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:08:42pm

Snowjob.

182 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:09:20pm

OT - the pinkie finger did not get re-attached.

(good thing the deranged angry Obama supporting finger biter wasn't a "tea partier" - otherwise - this would be a big damn deal.

183 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:09:23pm

re: #140 ted

Radicalized in jail ? Still waiting for a link about his "prison time" All I've found is his arrest as a protester, and that was dismissed, with a settlement.

184 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:09:31pm

re: #141 MandyManners

And, yes, one's good name IS worth fighting for.

I agree. But sometimes the remedy is as bad as the original ill - consider those celebreties who are sometimes falsely accused of crazy stuff in the tabloids. Even if they sue and win, the story sticks around. Perhaps years later, people will remember the accusation, but not the subsequent trial and verdict. So its a tough call.

185 ted  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:09:45pm

"Obama seems to have a penchant for surrounding himself with advisors of, shall we say, questionable backgrounds and qualifications, that routine vetting would normally disqualify"


Agree...Whether he is or not,IMO, there could be better choices.

186 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:09:46pm

re: #152 ladycatnip

#104 kansas

Thanks for the video. This guy is out there. "White polluters" steering polution to the black communities. Now there's paranoia for ya. So why wouild we give him any credit when he believes this nonsense.

LadyC - I don't like this Van Jones fellow.
The "white polluters" might be over the top, but when he talks about industry polluting low-income minority areas and not seeming to give a damn, he is correct.

Rollins Environmental Services, Baton Rouge LA

More: Rollins Environmental Services

187 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:09:51pm

re: #154 taxfreekiller

I have a hard copy of it given to me prior.

google it I guess ,,,

most likely any bad thing about this guy is getting file 13'd fast

Okay, it just looked like you meant to put one in and forgot. I've read about connection already today.

188 itellu3times  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:09:59pm

re: #157 zombie

Jones is protean and shifts with the times. Trutherism was hip in 2004; now it's not.

the classics never go out of style

189 Kenneth  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:10:01pm

Charles,

I am relieved to read that Jones has denounced the Troofers. I wish more politicians would do so. However, he did not deny adding his name to that list nor did he explain how it got there. It is possible the Troofers added it, but it is also possible he did sign it, and now regrets it. I still don't think we've gotten to the bottom of this.

190 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:10:09pm

re: #136 taxfreekiller

Obama is the problem not this kook nut case Van Jones.

Focus.

* * * *
"All the President's Men" were taken down by the Washington Post's "investigative reporters," Bernstein and what's his name.

191 MAVCON  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:10:20pm

So Charles this guy gets a pass on everything else?

192 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:10:30pm

re: #145 Ben Hur

Is Van Jones an American citizen?

Has anyone...checked?


Birth certificate now!

193 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:10:34pm

re: #166 KennyR

Please, if you have any decency you will not let anymore cats out of the bag.

You're not the boss of me!

/And be grateful that I'm not the boss of you.

194 ted  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:10:39pm

re: #189 Kenneth

Charles,

I am relieved to read that Jones has denounced the Troofers. I wish more politicians would do so. However, he did not deny adding his name to that list nor did he explain how it got there. It is possible the Troofers added it, but it is also possible he did sign it, and now regrets it. I still don't think we've gotten to the bottom of this.

I agree.

195 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:10:54pm

re: #181 jaunte

Snowjob.

Shoot. So close but so, so far away.

196 Pianobuff  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:11:01pm

re: #161 Jim in Virginia

Can we invoke the 24 hour rule? Van Jones says he doesn't know how his name got on the list. The truthers (and Beck, Fox, the Times, etc) will either find further evidence that he supported them , or Van Jones will issue a more detailed denial.
In 2004, the 9-11 MIHOP / LIHOP (made it or let it happen) theory was very strong in monbat circles. Check DU back then. That doesn't prove Jones signed the petition, but it would not surprise me if he had.

Is that really what he said? I thought he expressed his disagreement with the Truther position and ignored if/how his name got on the petition.

This doesn't mean he approved his signature on that petition, but it would have been much simpler to have said "I didn't sign no stinking petition".

Maybe not being explicit is a strategy, who knows... And in 24 hours, as you suggest, more information may quite possibly come out.

197 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:11:28pm

re: #171 jones

Thanks. That seems pretty fucked up.

198 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:11:28pm

re: #191 MAVCON

So Charles this guy gets a pass on everything else?

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?

199 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:11:29pm

re: #184 Flyers1974

I agree. But sometimes the remedy is as bad as the original ill - consider those celebreties who are sometimes falsely accused of crazy stuff in the tabloids. Even if they sue and win, the story sticks around. Perhaps years later, people will remember the accusation, but not the subsequent trial and verdict. So its a tough call.

One of the things I like about the British court system is the honking-huge verdict a plaintiff can get when libel is committed.

200 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:11:30pm

But but but...

Its more than just an imaginary jobs creation program in an imaginary industry.

Its the DREAM REBORN!

On the 40th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr's assassination in April 2008, Green for All held a conference in Memphis, Tennessee to "deepen relationships and skills in the arena of climate justice" and to help build "opportunity for poor communities in the new green economy."

All for only $125 million annually.

201 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:11:41pm

re: #156 JamesTKirk

Do not make Hillary joke.
Do not make Hillary joke.
Do not make Hillary joke.


This from a man who sleeps with green aliens.

202 ladycatnip  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:11:44pm

Charles,
From your downding, you don't think his position on white polluters directing it to black communities is out there or extreme?

203 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:11:53pm

re: #152 ladycatnip

#104 kansas

Thanks for the video. This guy is out there. "White polluters" steering polution to the black communities. Now there's paranoia for ya. So why wouild we give him any credit when he believes this nonsense.

Actually, it happens a lot. It's an economic issue. If you are setting up a recycling center, for instance, which requires a fair amount of space, are you going to purchase land on the rich side of town, where land costs are huge, or on the poor side of town where it is cheap?

So, yeah, polluting industries and facilities end up where the land is cheap. Is that racism? Not by a capitalist standard, that's business. Is the fact that municipal and state governments let it happen again and again with lax zoning laws and enforcement racism?

Now *that's* a good question for discussion. There is absolutely no doubt that poor people, be they poor whites in Appalachian coal country, or blacks and hispanics in urban environments, get the shit end of the stick with filthy industries.

204 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:11:55pm

It's like Alice in Wonderland with guilty first, trial afterwards attitudes some are displaying.

205 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:12:03pm

re: #174 jaunte

Greenjob.

Bureaucratic version of a handjob.

206 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:12:08pm

re: #156 JamesTKirk

Do not make Hillary joke.
Do not make Hillary joke.
Do not make Hillary joke.

So when does Hillary resign to run against Barack?

207 AtadOFF  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:12:08pm

re: #5 Charles

When was his name added? If it was years ago why would the Truthers even bother as Jones would have been a nobody.

I do agree that we need more that the Truthers say so though.

208 Kenneth  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:12:11pm

re: #157 zombie


Katrina kind of supplanted that. But 2004 is the precise year that someone like Jones would sign a petition like that. So to me it's not an outrageous claim.

Jones is protean and shifts with the times. Trutherism was hip in 2004; now it's not.

I accept his statement that he does believe in it anymore. But he never actually addressed the issue of how his name got on the petition.

Exactly.

"I did not sign that petition, Miss Troofer."

209 Billy Bob  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:12:12pm

Shhh...(whisper voice) Did you hear that Van Jones called Democrats A-holes? Someone even told me that he thought his boss is an A-hole too, but I dont' want him to get in trouble...shhh...dont' tell anyone, O.K.?

210 snowcrash  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:12:18pm

re: #196 Pianobuff
Tommorrow is Friday of a 3 day weekend. He is hoping it is forgottten

211 itellu3times  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:12:28pm

re: #199 MandyManners

One of the things I like about the British court system is the honking-huge verdict a plaintiff can get when libel is committed.

And the loser much more often (always?) pays winner's legal costs.

212 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:12:28pm

re: #182 FrogMarch

OT - the pinkie finger did not get re-attached.

(good thing the deranged angry Obama supporting finger biter wasn't a "tea partier" - otherwise - this would be a big damn deal.

I guess if he were, we'd have to ignore the fact that he lost his finger punching someone in the mouth, twice, right?

213 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:12:30pm

re: #191 MAVCON

So Charles this guy gets a pass on everything else?

Where did Charles say that?

214 Kenneth  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:13:04pm

re: #207 AtadOFF

signed in 2004

215 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:13:07pm

re: #206 unrealizedviewpoint

So when does Hillary resign to run against Barack?


After the Dems lose 100 seats in the house next year.. Possibly also the Senate..

Rove has an uncanny accuracy in his predictions...

216 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:13:25pm

re: #198 Charles

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?

A lot of that running wild. Maybe threads are too fast.
Evelyn Wood Reading Dynamics.

217 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:13:35pm

re: #212 Slumbering Behemoth

I guess if he were, we'd have to ignore the fact that he lost his finger punching someone in the mouth, twice, right?

It's often a mistake to punch a stranger.

218 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:14:11pm

re: #217 jaunte

It's often a mistake to punch a stranger.

Yup.. especially when you stick your finger in the guy's mouth...

219 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:14:12pm

re: #203 austin_blue

Actually, it happens a lot. It's an economic issue. If you are setting up a recycling center, for instance, which requires a fair amount of space, are you going to purchase land on the rich side of town, where land costs are huge, or on the poor side of town where it is cheap?

So, yeah, polluting industries and facilities end up where the land is cheap. Is that racism? Not by a capitalist standard, that's business. Is the fact that municipal and state governments let it happen again and again with lax zoning laws and enforcement racism?

Now *that's* a good question for discussion. There is absolutely no doubt that poor people, be they poor whites in Appalachian coal country, or blacks and hispanics in urban environments, get the shit end of the stick with filthy industries.

Absolutely.

Links here:
re: #186 reine.de.tout

LadyC - I don't like this Van Jones fellow.
The "white polluters" might be over the top, but when he talks about industry polluting low-income minority areas and not seeming to give a damn, he is correct.

Rollins Environmental Services, Baton Rouge LA

More: Rollins Environmental Services

220 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:14:17pm

BTW - has anyone noticed that, with 18 Czars, the whole idea of "Czar" goes out the window?

Being a Czar in Washington is like being a Prince in Saudi Arabia - you get lots of nice stuff and you get to abuse people but you don't get much in the way of real power.

Washington mocks itself.

221 jones  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:14:17pm

re: #197 kansas

Thanks. That seems pretty fucked up.

Evil is a term that comes to mind.

222 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:14:19pm

re: #180 Charles

I've been searching all day for confirmation that Jones is a Truther. If it was true, I was ready to join in the calls for him to resign.

I turned up NOTHING. I found absolutely NO evidence that he's ever said anything to anyone that supports 9/11 Trutherism.

The accusation is completely bogus.

But that's not stopping some from assuming he's a sekrit troofer.

223 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:14:20pm

re: #215 DrNaughty

After the Dems lose 100 seats in the house next year.. Possibly also the Senate..

Rove has an uncanny accuracy in his predictions...

I'd like to see the Dems lose 100 seats in the Senate.

No, really. Negative Senators. It would be great. After all, there are already irrational and imaginary Senators, no reason why there can't be negative ones.

224 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:14:20pm

re: #216 unrealizedviewpoint

A lot of that running wild. Maybe threads are too fast.
Evelyn Wood Reading Dynamics.

Uh-oh. Are we approaching flounce-frequency yet?

225 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:14:36pm

re: #212 Slumbering Behemoth

I guess if he were, we'd have to ignore the fact that he lost his finger punching someone in the mouth, twice, right?

The angry pro-Obama guy came came up and harassed him. I'm not saying his punching was a good idea. But biting a finger off is kind of a permanent disfigurement. black eyes usually heal.

226 MAVCON  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:14:44pm

Yeah I guess I do Thanks for pointing it out

227 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:14:50pm

re: #172 zombie

It is not wingutty parsing of his statement. The issue at hand was: How did your name get on that petition?

And as mentioned, it's impossible for him to explain that.

But I appreciate that you'll admit this is a non-issue.

228 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:15:19pm

re: #222 Sharmuta

But that's not stopping some from assuming he's a sekrit troofer.

I guess now we're going to have to admit that really doesn't melt steel.
///

229 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:15:51pm

re: #220 karmic_inquisitor

Maybe we should call them miniczars.

230 KennyR  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:04pm

re: #193 Slumbering Behemoth

Damn, you did it again! I'm going to hide my IP address and go to bed.

231 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:06pm

re: #199 MandyManners

One of the things I like about the British court system is the honking-huge verdict a plaintiff can get when libel is committed.

No doubt. Makes people think twice before telling falsehoods. The old penalty in England was removing one's tongue. Unless you could afford an indemnity.

232 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:14pm

re: #221 jones

Evil is a term that comes to mind.

More scholarly than mine.

233 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:16pm

re: #228 Slumbering Behemoth

I guess now we're going to have to admit that really doesn't melt steel.
///

But will it melt Steele?

234 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:32pm

re: #222 Sharmuta

The desire to find something that will inflict damage on BHO is very strong.

235 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:33pm

re: #201 Jim in Virginia

This from a man who sleeps with green aliens.

Those green aliens look like a lot more fun than vampires...

236 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:41pm

re: #180 Charles

I've been searching all day for confirmation that Jones is a Truther. If it was true, I was ready to join in the calls for him to resign.

I turned up NOTHING. I found absolutely NO evidence that he's ever said anything to anyone that supports 9/11 Trutherism.

The accusation is completely bogus.

But what about this document released by the Ella Baker Center when Jones was the head honcho there and giving quotes from Jones' group STORM, calling 9/11 a "bombing" with the statement

"No matter who ultimately is to blame for these bombings..."

...right below a quote from Jones.

It certainly pouts his in the Truther-Zone -- flirting with Truthism.

(And the was released nearly two months after 9/11, when it was well-known who did it - -at the very beginning of the truther movement.)

237 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:45pm

re: #231 Flyers1974

No doubt. Makes people think twice before telling falsehoods. The old penalty in England was removing one's tongue. Unless you could afford an indemnity.

I'm glad we booted King George.

238 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:45pm

re: #228 Slumbering Behemoth

People aren't interested in the truth, just what confirms their pre-existing biases. I see plenty of proof of this on this thread.

239 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:47pm

re: #225 FrogMarch

The guy lost his finger in the process of punching the other guy in the mouth. The puncher inserted his own finger into the punchee's mouth. Tough shit, I say.

240 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:16:50pm

re: #229 jaunte

Maybe we should call them miniczars.

Yes - they'd be more eco-friendly that way.

/

241 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:17:00pm

re: #235 Van Helsing

Those green aliens look like a lot more fun than vampires...

And the next morning, you're not a green alien yourself.

242 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:17:09pm

re: #227 iceweasel

And as mentioned, it's impossible for him to explain that.

But I appreciate that you'll admit this is a non-issue.

It's not impossible at all to say he didn't sign it.

243 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:17:10pm

re: #199 MandyManners

One of the things I like about the British court system is the honking-huge verdict a plaintiff can get when libel is committed.

And that same "wonderful" system allows Saudi billionaires to sue people who write books exposing their support for Islamic terrorism.

244 Pianobuff  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:17:30pm

re: #227 iceweasel

And as mentioned, it's impossible for him to explain that.

But I appreciate that you'll admit this is a non-issue.

Do you think he will end up clarifying and at least stating that he did not approve his signature and has no idea how he got on the list?

245 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:17:37pm

A lot of "main stream" democrats were troofers to varying degrees. It fit the Bush-hate template and it was politically convenient in certain situations. Howard Dean anyone? Hillary? It wouldn't surprise me if Van Jones signed on. It wouldn't surprise me if troofers lie.

246 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:17:50pm

re: #229 jaunte

Maybe we should call them miniczars.

Czarinas?

247 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:18:12pm

LIVE
Dick Morris says Van Jones as Green Czar would be in charge of implementing Obama's Cap & Trade (tax) environmental legislation.

Dick Morris says who is the White House using for vetters?

Dick Morris says Van Jones has got to go.

And Dick Morris knows from sleaze!

248 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:18:13pm

re: #246 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Czarettos?

249 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:18:16pm

re: #236 zombie

It certainly pouts his in the Truther-Zone
=
It certainly puts him in the Truther-Zone

PIMF

250 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:18:19pm

re: #219 reine.de.tout

Except the dichotomy Van Jones chose was "white" and "black", not "rich" and "poor".

251 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:18:21pm

Screw it, it's just a side issue distraction. Fucking trillions in the red, and Sunshine wants another blank check. GimmeGimmeGimme.
Bank accounts empty.

252 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:18:24pm

re: #207 AtadOFF

When was his name added? If it was years ago why would the Truthers even bother as Jones would have been a nobody.

I do agree that we need more that the Truthers say so though.

What we need was was Jones to deny that he signed it.
"...it does not reflect my views now or ever."
Those are weasel words, "It depends on what the meaning of is,is."
Sounds pretty clear that he signed it, or he would have said so.

253 ladycatnip  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:18:36pm

#186 reine.de.tout

LadyC - I don't like this Van Jones fellow.
The "white polluters" might be over the top, but when he talks about industry polluting low-income minority areas and not seeming to give a damn, he is correct.

I can understand if he were calling them out against all low-income communities, as many polluted areas are all poor white folks. I have an issue with him making this a racial issue. Polluting is wrong, period. Polluters are scum, companies that pollute should be shut down. White kids, Hispanic kids, black kids have all died as a result of toxic pollutants.

254 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:18:56pm

re: #223 JamesTKirk

I'd like to see the Dems lose 100 seats in the Senate.

No, really. Negative Senators. It would be great. After all, there are already irrational and imaginary Senators, no reason why there can't be negative ones.

lol I meant lose the majority they have in the Senate.

Obama's major problem is that he is agenda driven.. He's rolling the dice on health care, and if he loses .. he may have a chance to recover so the Democrats don't get swept by the tidal wave of disapproval which is starting this summer as the moderates that put him into office decide that they've had enough of his 'change' and opt out of supporting the Democrats...

A 100 seat gain the the house and at least a 20 seat gain in the senate is emmenently possible as long as the Republicans don't have an ajenda other than lowering taxes and reducing federal spending as well as repealing everything that Obama did in his first two years.

Keep Abortion and all the Holy Rollers wanting to control your life out of it and they'll clean up ...

255 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:19:04pm

Allah sums things up thusly, and I happen to agree with his possible outcomes. I don't know if I agree with his conclusion though:

Three possibilities. One: The Truthers are lying and simply added names of activists like Jones who, um, no one had ever heard of when the petition was circulated in 2004. If that’s true, it’s curious that people like Ed Asner and Janeane Garofalo, whose names are also on there, apparently haven’t objected in the five years since. Two: As I said in the Beck post, maybe Jones doesn’t actually believe the theory but signed on for the sheer romantic rebel pseudo-intellectual glory of it. In that case, we’re in the same situation as we were with Ron Paul when he denied having written the racist crap in those old Ron Paul newsletters: Even if he’s telling the truth, the fact that he approved it proves he’s either too stupid or careless to be trusted with power. Or three: Jones is lying. Unless the correct answer is number one — and it’s mighty curious that Jones isn’t saying it is — then he’s got to go. Pull the trap door, Barry.

We have tax cheats confirmed by Congress to head the Treasury. We have all manner of corruptocrat in Congress and the Administration. This guy's a weasel. He might even be a closet troofer. Why shouldn't he be in this Administration? He fits in perfectly.

Meanwhile, a real corruptocrat - Charles Rangel still gets to sit in the House and decide tax policy while the ethics committee members happen to have received campaign contributions from ... Rangel. Yeah, we've got corruption all the way around.

256 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:19:07pm

re: #239 Slumbering Behemoth

The guy lost his finger in the process of punching the other guy in the mouth. The puncher inserted his own finger into the punchee's mouth. Tough shit, I say.

That video is doctored!

He bit off his OWN finger!

257 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:19:09pm

re: #243 Charles

And that same "wonderful" system allows Saudi billionaires to sue people who write books exposing their support for Islamic terrorism.

Oops! I'd forgotten about that case.

Don't the Brits allow truth to be the defense in a libel case?

258 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:19:16pm

re: #173 alegrias

* * * *
Less than sixty days until election day in Virginia and New Jersey.

Do what you can to help, please.

No matter what the WaPo says, I like McDonnell. Bolling is cool. Cucinelli creeps me out.

259 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:19:22pm

re: #248 jaunte

Czarettos?

Czar Babies?

260 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:19:38pm

re: #172 zombie

It is not wingutty parsing of his statement. The issue at hand was: How did your name get on that petition? He never answered that. He only answered the larger question of whether or not he is a Truther.

I will admit however that this is certainly a tempest in a teapot, a mountain out of a molehill. A very trivial issue blown way out of proportion.

Okay, I'll fess up. *I* put it there. I mistyped *Alex Jones* and the rest is Internet history.

Poor Van, trying to prove a nebulous negative. And it's all my fault.

///

261 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:19:43pm

re: #236 zombie

You are grasping at straws.

262 ladycatnip  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:19:58pm

#203 austin_blue

I completely agree with you. Totally. Well said.

263 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:20:03pm

re: #212 Slumbering Behemoth

I guess if he were, we'd have to ignore the fact that he lost his finger punching someone in the mouth, twice, right?

y
The old guy was assaulted & defended himself.

264 snowcrash  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:20:27pm

re: #244 Pianobuff
If he gets pressure from the chief of staff or a friendly call from the President, sure. I think he will say whatever is necessary.

265 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:20:31pm

re: #238 Sharmuta

Sadly, you are correct. We've seen it before, when some state with certainty that a recent accident was a muslim terrorist attack before investigators even have a chance to reach the scene.

266 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:20:33pm

re: #215 DrNaughty

After the Dems lose 100 seats in the house next year.. Possibly also the Senate..

Rove has an uncanny accuracy in his predictions...

Be kind of hard to lose 100 seats in the Senate.
/

267 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:20:33pm

re: #239 Slumbering Behemoth

The guy lost his finger in the process of punching the other guy in the mouth. The puncher inserted his own finger into the punchee's mouth. Tough shit, I say.

100% agreement.

268 leftover54  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:20:54pm

re: #11 lawhawk

Including: He did not state emphatically 'I've never signed such a petition and never would'.
If he was sand bagged with the question I don't blame him for being vague about this. It's possible he needed time to think on it a bit so as not to dig a bigger hole for himself.
Still, given the subject of the petition - well, I know I can say I've never signed such a petition (and I've signed many petitions over the past 5 years) without a seconds hesitation.
He's either willing to entertain the notion that he was 'set up'
and unwittingly signed such a petition or the allegation set forth in the petition was not out of the realm of consideration by him. Both scenarios say a lot about the man (IMHO).

269 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:20:58pm

re: #255 lawhawk

Number 2 is a highly plausible theory to my mind.

270 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:21:00pm

re: #259 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Czar Babies?

Czarcozies? No, too French sounding.

271 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:21:02pm

re: #236 zombie

But what about this document released by the Ella Baker Center when Jones was the head honcho there and giving quotes from Jones' group STORM, calling 9/11 a "bombing" with the statement

"No matter who ultimately is to blame for these bombings..."

...right below a quote from Jones.

It certainly pouts his in the Truther-Zone -- flirting with Truthism.

(And the was released nearly two months after 9/11, when it was well-known who did it - -at the very beginning of the truther movement.)

That statement from STORM was released weeks after 9/11, when no one knew the full story. Lots of people were talking about the "bombing" of the World Trade Center then. That is not any kind of support for the contention that Van Jones is a Truther -- in fact, if that's all you can come up with, it reinforces my point that there is no evidence.

272 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:21:10pm

re: #250 OldLineTexan

Except the dichotomy Van Jones chose was "white" and "black", not "rich" and "poor".

Yes, true. I don't like Van Jones or how he characterized this as coming from "white polluters", and I said that when I posted the links.

But the fact is that the low-income black section of Baton Rouge suffered terribly. And no one cared. I thought it was terrible then, and those folks needed relief - and I'm glad to say the situation does not exist today. But it did happen.

273 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:21:37pm

re: #243 Charles

And that same "wonderful" system allows Saudi billionaires to sue people who write books exposing their support for Islamic terrorism.

* * *
Rachel Ehrenfeld is one super hero, for fighting back.

274 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:21:50pm

re: #243 Charles

And that same "wonderful" system allows Saudi billionaires to sue people who write books exposing their support for Islamic terrorism.

Well, there is that...


But, but, but...they're our allies, aren't they? In the war against Sallafist based terror groups?

Oh, wait...

275 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:22:02pm

re: #236 zombie

But what about this document released by the Ella Baker Center when Jones was the head honcho there and giving quotes from Jones' group STORM, calling 9/11 a "bombing" with the statement

"No matter who ultimately is to blame for these bombings..."

...right below a quote from Jones.

It certainly pouts his in the Truther-Zone -- flirting with Truthism.

(And the was released nearly two months after 9/11, when it was well-known who did it - -at the very beginning of the truther movement.)

In context, I see it differently, which Arab minority will get the blame. I see not one thing wrong with the statement.

"No matter who ultimately is to blame for these bombings, we cannot tolerate stereotypes and blanket attacks against any ethnic group," said Raquel of STORM. "And we especially don't want Asian-American, African-American, Latino or Native American communities getting pulled into a frenzy of hatred toward our sisters and brothers. We must stand together."

276 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:22:04pm

re: #206 unrealizedviewpoint

So when does Hillary resign to run against Barack?


Depends on how badly the Dems do in 2010 and if she gets fired because Obama's foreign policy is flailing.
I predict December 2010.

277 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:22:32pm

re: #236 zombie

But what about this document released by the Ella Baker Center when Jones was the head honcho there and giving quotes from Jones' group STORM, calling 9/11 a "bombing" with the statement

"No matter who ultimately is to blame for these bombings..."

...right below a quote from Jones.

It certainly pouts his in the Truther-Zone -- flirting with Truthism.

(And the was released nearly two months after 9/11, when it was well-known who did it - -at the very beginning of the truther movement.)


Right on!

278 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:22:40pm

re: #263 opnion

y
The old guy was assaulted & defended himself.

Assaulted how?

279 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:22:42pm

re: #245 FrogMarch
DING!

280 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:22:53pm

re: #276 Jim in Virginia

Depends on how badly the Dems do in 2010 and if she gets fired because Obama's foreign policy is flailing.
I predict December 2010.

I predict about Thanksgiving 2010...

281 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:23:09pm

re: #271 Charles

That statement from STORM was released weeks after 9/11, when no one knew the full story. Lots of people were talking about the "bombing" of the World Trade Center then.

We may not have known the full story, but we all saw planes hitting the WTC on every channel, constantly repeating, the day it happened.

282 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:23:13pm

Ward Churchill for Indian Affairs Czar!

/left wing crazies, collect the whole set

283 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:23:37pm

re: #281 JamesTKirk

We may not have known the full story, but we all saw planes hitting the WTC on every channel, constantly repeating, the day it happened.

I haven't seen that video in a long time

284 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:23:38pm

Jones writes:

[W]e are entering an era during which our very survival will demand invention and innovation on a scale never before seen in the history of human civilization.

Uh, say what?

So in the end, our success and survival as a species are largely and directly tied to the new eco-entrepreneurs

Sweet barking Jupiter. This guy has the President's ear while the same President routinely denigrates Exxon Mobil and others who provide the energy and the power for our daily existence.

285 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:23:38pm
286 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:23:41pm

re: #255 lawhawk

This guy's a weasel. He might even be a closet troofer. Why shouldn't he be in this Administration? He fits in perfectly.

Thank you for spelling out the problem.

287 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:23:51pm

re: #257 MandyManners

Oops! I'd forgotten about that case.

Don't the Brits allow truth to be the defense in a libel case?

I believe so. I'm trying to recall that McDonald's case where I think that was the defense. I'll have to check.

288 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:23:53pm

re: #272 reine.de.tout

Yes, true. I don't like Van Jones or how he characterized this as coming from "white polluters", and I said that when I posted the links.

But the fact is that the low-income black section of Baton Rouge suffered terribly. And no one cared. I thought it was terrible then, and those folks needed relief - and I'm glad to say the situation does not exist today. But it did happen.

I have personal experience with a Superfund site.

289 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:24:24pm

re: #282 Killian Bundy

Ward Churchill for Indian Affairs Czar!

/left wing crazies, collect the whole set

Now that's funny. LMAO.

290 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:24:26pm

re: #283 DrNaughty

I haven't seen that video in a long time

That's because they decided to stop showing it. It had the unfortunate side-effect of reminding people why we were fighting terrorists.

291 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:24:35pm

re: #244 Pianobuff

Do you think he will end up clarifying and at least stating that he did not approve his signature and has no idea how he got on the list?

IMHO, the carob tree will uproot itself and move 400 amot before that happens.

292 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:25:15pm

re: #281 JamesTKirk

We may not have known the full story, but we all saw planes hitting the WTC on every channel, constantly repeating, the day it happened.

But see planes could not have actually brought down the towers, cause first fire does not melt steel or something///

293 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:25:21pm

re: #261 Sharmuta

You are grasping at straws.

I don't see how. The document places Jones at the cusp of Trutherism; it's not such a stretch to see how he could take the extra half-step to signing that petition (or allowing his name to be put on it).

I never imagined this issue would grow so huge. I have personal knowledge about Jones that I'm loathe to reveal in public which puts him all over the truther scene and other bizarre conspiracy scenes. I don't know about this petition specifically, but I have with my own eyes seen Jones at Truther events. Problem is, I can't prove it - at least without exposing myself. So I will remain mute on the subject.

294 jill e  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:25:28pm

I'm just bothered by the whole czar thing. What kind of background checks/investigations are done on them prior to access to vital government information? Just looking at the problems Obama's cabinet appointees had...it's bothersome!

295 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:25:31pm

re: #253 ladycatnip

#186 reine.de.tout

I can understand if he were calling them out against all low-income communities, as many polluted areas are all poor white folks. I have an issue with him making this a racial issue. Polluting is wrong, period. Polluters are scum, companies that pollute should be shut down. White kids, Hispanic kids, black kids have all died as a result of toxic pollutants.

Yes, and I said I thought the "white polluters" was over the top, and you are correct, it affects many low-income areas. But his basic point is not incorrect.

296 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:26:08pm

I have an idea -

We offer $4,500 to Obama for every inefficient Czar that he trades in for a more efficient one.

Cash for Bootlickers.

297 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:26:11pm

re: #293 zombie

I don't see how. The document places Jones at the cusp of Trutherism; it's not such a stretch to see how he could take the extra half-step to signing that petition (or allowing his name to be put on it).

I never imagined this issue would grow so huge. I have personal knowledge about Jones that I'm loathe to reveal in public which puts him all over the truther scene and other bizarre conspiracy scenes. I don't know about this petition specifically, but I have with my own eyes seen Jones at Truther events. Problem is, I can't prove it - at least without exposing myself. So I will remain mute on the subject.

I trust you, Zombie.

298 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:26:11pm

re: #292 kansas

But see planes could not have actually brought down the towers, cause first fire does not melt steel or something///

I've seen plenty of steel trusses fail and roofs collapse during fires...

299 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:26:35pm

re: #296 karmic_inquisitor

I have an idea -

We offer $4,500 to Obama for every inefficient Czar that he trades in for a more efficient one.

Cash for Bootlickers.

Cash-for-Piecesofshit.

300 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:26:46pm

re: #293 zombie

I don't see how. The document places Jones at the cusp of Trutherism; it's not such a stretch to see how he could take the extra half-step to signing that petition (or allowing his name to be put on it).

I never imagined this issue would grow so huge. I have personal knowledge about Jones that I'm loathe to reveal in public which puts him all over the truther scene and other bizarre conspiracy scenes. I don't know about this petition specifically, but I have with my own eyes seen Jones at Truther events. Problem is, I can't prove it - at least without exposing myself. So I will remain mute on the subject.

Isn't Cynthia McKinney a Greenie and a truther?

301 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:27:00pm

re: #220 karmic_inquisitor

BTW - has anyone noticed that, with 18 Czars, the whole idea of "Czar" goes out the window?

Being a Czar in Washington is like being a Prince in Saudi Arabia - you get lots of nice stuff and you get to abuse people but you don't get much in the way of real power.

Washington mocks itself.


I once had a client whose organization had severe job title inflation. Every project manager was a vice president. It was worse than banks. After a year or so, someone at a higher level decided to DO SOMETHING. So my client, along with a dozen other senior PMs, became a President.
Damn impressive business card.

302 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:27:15pm

re: #293 zombie

Problem is, I can't prove it - at least without exposing myself.

Exposing yourself would at least let us finally know which pronouns to use when referring to you.

303 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:27:29pm

re: #300 MandyManners

Isn't Cynthia McKinney a Greenie and a truther?

All of the above as well as a deranged nut

304 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:27:36pm

re: #288 OldLineTexan

I have personal experience with a Superfund site.

This same area of Baton Rouge has a superfund site nearby (Devil's Swamp).

I'm guessing this site is near where you live? Or is it something you did work for or on?

305 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:27:40pm

re: #281 JamesTKirk

We may not have known the full story, but we all saw planes hitting the WTC on every channel, constantly repeating, the day it happened.

Yes, and the planes were utilized as high velocity, kerosene fueled, Molotov cocktails. Bombs. Damn effective, too, may they all rot in hell.

306 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:27:49pm

re: #272 reine.de.tout

Yes, true. I don't like Van Jones or how he characterized this as coming from "white polluters", and I said that when I posted the links.

But the fact is that the low-income black section of Baton Rouge suffered terribly. And no one cared. I thought it was terrible then, and those folks needed relief - and I'm glad to say the situation does not exist today. But it did happen.

Exactly right. When Van Jones said that "white environmentalists" were tilting the regulations to keep the pollution out of their own backyards, and thereby funneling it into minority neighborhoods, he was NOT entirely wrong. There's a very substantial history of this happening, and not just in New Orleans.

307 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:28:22pm

re: #300 MandyManners

Isn't Cynthia McKinney a Greenie and a truther?

Egads. I just Googled McKinney and Jones.

308 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:28:24pm

re: #278 Slumbering Behemoth

Assaulted how?

There was a young gut interviewed my Mark Stein on the radio this afternoon.
There was a very organized Move On group there to support Obama.
There was a small group of anti Obama Care protestors on the corner.
According to the young guy, the pro Obama guy crossed the street & confronted the old guy & pulled him into the street. His eye witness account is that the guy just fought back.

309 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:28:49pm

re: #271 Charles

That statement from STORM was released weeks after 9/11, when no one knew the full story. Lots of people were talking about the "bombing" of the World Trade Center then. That is not any kind of support for the contention that Van Jones is a Truther -- in fact, if that's all you can come up with, it reinforces my point that there is no evidence.

I didn't come up with that - -it was posted by Kenneth on an earlier thread. I was just reposting it to remind people.

So far, I have made zero effort to look for verifiable evidence of Jones's Truther-intersected past. And I will not do so, because, a. I don't care; b. It's a mountain out of a molehill; and c. If I prove it, I will potentially expose myself.

310 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:29:00pm

re: #296 karmic_inquisitor

I have an idea -

We offer $4,500 to Obama for every inefficient Czar that he trades in for a more efficient one.

Cash for Bootlickers.

The program is already in-place with 100x multiplier.

Czar you tomorrow. ;)

311 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:29:02pm

re: #298 DrNaughty

I've seen plenty of steel trusses fail and roofs collapse during fires...

I was being sarcastic. Popular Mechanics and the History Channel have done documentaries that show how trusses are weakened and fail and how the construction of the trade center resulted in the pancaking of the floors as no floor was designed to bear the weight of another.

312 Irish Rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:29:12pm

OT but good lawd people, what on earth is going on down in Orlando?

Spencer and Geller have turned the Bary hearings into a damned circus.

In court, Krista Bartholomew, Bary's guardian ad litem, said this case was "not a holy war," but that's what this has become over the last month.

Before the hearing on Thursday, outside in front of the courthouse, Tom Trento held a news conference, as he did before the first hearing. He's from the Florida Security Council, an organization with the slogan of "Securing Florida Against Terror." This time, though, he brought a pastor from Ohio and a pair of anti-Islam bloggers.

Jamal Jivanjee, the Ohio pastor, compared Rifqa Bary to Anne Frank, the Jewish girl who was killed by Nazis in World War II and whose diary became what many consider one of the most important books of the 20th century.

Robert Spencer, who writes on a blog called Jihad Watch, told reporters Islam was here to take over America. Pam Geller of the Atlas Shrugs blog dismissed the results of the Franklin County investigation by saying things were "corrupt in Ohio."

"Forget your political correctness!" she said.

Muslim businessman Mohammad Lutfi of Orlando yelled that Trento, Spencer and Geller were "conservative, right-wing militants" and "crusaders."

Later, after the hearing, the attorneys made hasty exists, citing the new gag order. They hurried past the TV trucks, the reporters, the cameras, the shouting, red-faced, finger-pointing scrum.

I think the reporter for the St. Pete Times meant to call them "scum".

Haven't been over to either site tonight, but I'm guessing that their front pages contain the usual HYSTERIA!!! and self-promotion.

313 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:29:19pm

re: #303 DrNaughty

All of the above as well as a deranged nut

Didn't she also claim that there were thousands of black prisoners killed and buried in the bayous during/after Katrina?

314 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:29:39pm

re: #307 MandyManners

Egads. I just Googled McKinney and Jones.

Bless your virgin eyes...

315 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:29:42pm

re: #281 JamesTKirk

We may not have known the full story, but we all saw planes hitting the WTC on every channel, constantly repeating, the day it happened.

Yes, and the statement did not challenge that, it just said that attacking minorities that happened to be Arab without proof they were in any way responsible is wrong.

316 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:29:43pm

re: #258 Jim in Virginia

No matter what the WaPo says, I like McDonnell. Bolling is cool. Cucinelli creeps me out.

* * * *
The Washington Post was cool with the GOP candidate for Governor, McDonnell, until their democrat started losing in the polls.

Remember James Webb our democrat senator was vociferously against women serving in the military or getting into the military academies? Yet democrats elected Jim Webb to the Senate, where he now dances with dictators like Hillary Clinton & Madeline Allbright.

Why are you still reading the WashPost when you can predict what they'll say?

317 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:29:50pm

re: #307 MandyManners

Egads. I just Googled McKinney and Jones.

She represented the urban area of Atlanta, including Georgia State University and Emory University...

Even her Black base got sick of her and elected another Black to replace her..

318 leftover54  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:30:03pm

re: #175 The Shadow Do

    "...we elected the man " ???

319 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:30:20pm

re: #309 zombie

I didn't come up with that - -it was posted by Kenneth on an earlier thread. I was just reposting it to remind people.

So far, I have made zero effort to look for verifiable evidence of Jones's Truther-intersected past. And I will not do so, because, a. I don't care; b. It's a mountain out of a molehill; and c. If I prove it, I will potentially expose myself.

I have made the effort.

I've been searching all day. If the accusation was true, you'd see me calling for Jones' resignation right now.

There is NO evidence of this on the web. None. Just his name on a 9/11 Truthers' list.

320 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:30:23pm

re: #304 reine.de.tout

This same area of Baton Rouge has a superfund site nearby (Devil's Swamp).

I'm guessing this site is near where you live? Or is it something you did work for or on?

Lived near it (unknowingly) for years. Lived next to it (knowingly) after it was supposedly remediated. Not exactly correct ... had to bug out, etc.

Mixed-bag neighborhood of lower-middle class and middle-middle-class folks was wiped out.

But hey, it's been cleaned up now that we sued and sued and sued.

No racist crap needed.

321 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:30:34pm

re: #317 DrNaughty

She represented the urban area of Atlanta, including Georgia State University and Emory University...

Even her Black base got sick of her and elected another Black to replace her..

And she somehow managed to blame that on racism.

322 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:31:04pm

re: #276 Jim in Virginia

Depends on how badly the Dems do in 2010 and if she gets fired because Obama's foreign policy is flailing.
I predict December 2010.

Hillary has no option but to resign and run. She has to be President! To win, she will drag his policies stinking through the streets. Obama's got no chance even if he wins the nomination. She will destroy him.

323 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:31:09pm

re: #297 TheMatrix31

I trust you, Zombie.

I do too, I don't see an agenda.

324 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:31:14pm

re: #288 OldLineTexan

I have personal experience with a Superfund site.


Do you glow in the dark or did you get the super powers option?
Time for bed. Play nice y'all.

325 slokat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:31:55pm

Van Jones can express himself when he wants to...

Let's Rescue America

326 The False God  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:31:57pm
In a statement issued Thursday evening Jones said of “the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever.”

I'm not saying he signed it or not, as I don't have enough information, but if you didn't sign something, the first words that should come out of your mouth should be "I did not sign that. My name was used without my permission.", not a refutation of the beliefs themselves.

As he hasn't said "he didn't sign it", I can only assume he did sign it and is trying to enact emergency force fields so he can begin repairs.

I don't trust "Truthers", as they are insane, but I also don't trust double-speak/obfuscation, which is what his answer seems to be.

Did he sign it? If he didn't, just say he didn't. Don't start in on how you totally don't mean any of that stuff, "past or present." It makes you look unreasonably guilty.

327 MandyManners  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:32:01pm

History of the World: Part I is on. I'm gonna' slack off.

328 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:32:16pm

re: #281 JamesTKirk

We may not have known the full story, but we all saw planes hitting the WTC on every channel, constantly repeating, the day it happened.

That's kinda what I was thinking.

I saw the plane hit the second tower, live, on TV, on September 11

"Bombing"?

"Whoever is proved responsible"?

C'mon.

By 9:30am on September 11 we knew it was planes that hit the towers, not a controlled bombing. By September 13, it was verified to be Islamic terrorists.

That STORM/Ella Baker statement was released two months afterward.

329 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:32:25pm

re: #322 unrealizedviewpoint

Hillary has no option but to resign and run. She has to be President! To win, she will drag his policies stinking through the streets. Obama's got no chance even if he wins the nomination. She will destroy him.

I predict the nastiest primary season in at least 100 years. Ever since the Republicans dragged out Grover Cleveland's love child ...

330 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:32:37pm

re: #324 Jim in Virginia

Do you glow in the dark or did you get the super powers option?
Time for bed. Play nice y'all.

You see this computer? It's not actually plugged in ...

/

331 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:32:51pm

re: #309 zombie

So far, I have made zero effort to look for verifiable evidence of Jones's Truther-intersected past. And I will not do so, because, a. I don't care; b. It's a mountain out of a molehill; and c. If I prove it, I will potentially expose myself.

I stopped exposing myself years ago.

332 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:33:18pm

re: #308 opnion

There was a young gut interviewed my Mark Stein on the radio this afternoon.
There was a very organized Move On group there to support Obama.
There was a small group of anti Obama Care protestors on the corner.
According to the young guy, the pro Obama guy crossed the street & confronted the old guy & pulled him into the street. His eye witness account is that the guy just fought back.

Factually incorrect.

Rice got involved in a heated discussion with a member of Code Pink, said sheriff’s Capt. Ross Bonfiglio, a department spokesman. After the argument, Rice returned to where his group was standing. An unidentified man then walked from Moveon.org’s area toward the opponents and verbally confronted Rice, allegedly calling him names and acting aggressively, Bonfiglio said.

Rice told investigators he felt threatened by the man and punched him in the nose, Bonfiglio said. A fight ensued, during which part of Rice’s finger was bitten off, Bonfiglio said.

333 jamgarr  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:33:30pm

re: #22 karmic_inquisitor

I still think we should bite your pinky off.

/

"A Demo ate me baby (finger)!"

334 Pianobuff  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:33:44pm

What are the odds that Tapper or Garrett asks Gibbs a question that looks for a denial that Jones approved or otherwise knew his name was going on that petition?

335 lawhawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:33:57pm

re: #271 Charles

Having been in NYC and Lower Manhattan on 9/11 - and walked through the dust cloud on my walk to walking over the Manhattan Bridge in to Brooklyn, and then following the news to find out if anyone I knew happened to have been murdered in the attacks, the claim that it was a bombing is ... in a word...

preposterous. (well, that's all I'll say about it without going [deleted])

I saw the videos of the plane hits. I saw the collapses. No bombs there - it was all about the jihadis hijacking the planes and flinging them into skyscrapers to incinerate and obliterate tens of thousands of people. We were lucky as only about 3,000 people were murdered. Only.

I do recall reports of bombs in regards for the Pentagon attack, but even that nonsense was demolished with the parking lot video showing the plane slamming into the side of the Pentagon. There were even reports of the State Dept being hit with a bomb, but that turned to be a false rumor.

Where the 9/11 bomb theories have truly taken hold is on the collapse of 7WTC, which came down later in the day on 9/11/01, and there were reports of the building being pulled, but that's because the FDNY was pulling their remaining firefighters away from the building since it was showing signs of collapse after taking serious damage from the collapsing Twin Towers.

In fact, for a week or more, it was thought that other buildings might come down because of the damage sustained.

But the troofers take any discrete statement and turn it into part of the conspiracy.

Did the Troofers add his name to the list? Plausible.
Did Van sign it but now regret it? More likely.
Did Van get caught in Troofer-ville and now realize that he's got to throw someone under the bus? Looking likely.

[deleted]

336 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:33:59pm

I'm not claiming one way or the other, all I'm saying is that I can see if that someone was a fucking nutbag like Jones is, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that there is, in fact, another layer of bullshit to him.

337 The Shadow Do  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:34:12pm

re: #318 leftover54

    "...we elected the man " ???

Yes, we did.

338 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:34:14pm

re: #319 Charles

I have made the effort.

I've been searching all day. If the accusation was true, you'd see me calling for Jones' resignation right now.

I'd join you if there was proof that he was a ex felon and a current Communist as Beck states.

339 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:34:22pm

re: #308 opnion

Let me see if I am reading you correctly. Is the young guy saying that the "biter" grabbed the "puncher" first?

I've been reading stuff that says in the "puncher's" tv interview, the "puncher" admitted to being at fault.

340 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:34:31pm

re: #316 alegrias

* * * *
The Washington Post was cool with the GOP candidate for Governor, McDonnell, until their democrat started losing in the polls.

Remember James Webb our democrat senator was vociferously against women serving in the military or getting into the military academies? Yet democrats elected Jim Webb to the Senate, where he now dances with dictators like Hillary Clinton & Madeline Allbright.

Why are you still reading the WashPost when you can predict what they'll say?


Good comics.

341 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:34:39pm

re: #333 jamgarr

"A Demo ate me baby (finger)!"

Leftists do always have this "lean and hungry look'... and tend to be nasty..

Large people, on the other hand, tend to be much more pleasant to be around..

342 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:34:54pm

Again.

There is absolutely NO evidence that Van Jones has ever publicly advocated Trutherism.

None.

I've searched. There is no evidence. You're free to believe otherwise, but if you can't back it up with a link that proves it, you're just talking out of your hat.

343 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:35:00pm

re: #340 Jim in Virginia

Good comics.

They're all online. I stopped reading WaPo and WashTimes years ago.

344 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:35:23pm

re: #320 OldLineTexan

Lived near it (unknowingly) for years. Lived next to it (knowingly) after it was supposedly remediated. Not exactly correct ... had to bug out, etc.

Mixed-bag neighborhood of lower-middle class and middle-middle-class folks was wiped out.

But hey, it's been cleaned up now that we sued and sued and sued.

No racist crap needed.

I don't like the racist crap either, OLT.

And there are indeed neighborhoods other than low-income minority ones that were affected.

Where I live - it's been my personal observation that the low-income minority neighborhoods WERE the ones most affected by these sorts of shenanigans. This wasn't an area with one plant. The area ended up surrounded by 'em. Proximity to the river was one reason; cheap land another. And the plants were NOT good neighbors.

345 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:35:33pm

re: #320 OldLineTexan
Scarsdale/ Sagemont?

346 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:36:01pm

re: #293 zombie

I don't see how. The document places Jones at the cusp of Trutherism; it's not such a stretch to see how he could take the extra half-step to signing that petition (or allowing his name to be put on it).

I never imagined this issue would grow so huge. I have personal knowledge about Jones that I'm loathe to reveal in public which puts him all over the truther scene and other bizarre conspiracy scenes. I don't know about this petition specifically, but I have with my own eyes seen Jones at Truther events. Problem is, I can't prove it - at least without exposing myself. So I will remain mute on the subject.

* * * *
I believe you more than almost anyone. You are brave & we need you alive & well to report the real truth!

347 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:36:03pm

re: #343 JamesTKirk

They're all online. I stopped reading WaPo and WashTimes years ago.

JIm in VA has difficulty dragging his 'puter into the ... ah ... erm ... "office".

/

348 J.S.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:36:13pm

Someone mentioned with respect to whites dumping garbage into black areas (and, yes, this I suppose does indeed occur) -- however, I would like to point out with respect to the City of Toronto (Re; garbage to United States) that Toronto (quote from Wiki): "The demographics of Toronto make Toronto one of the most multicultural cities in the world. Data released by Statistics Canada as part of the 2006 census indicates that Toronto is more ethnically diverse than Miami, Los Angeles, London and New York City." Just as a little reminder to people...

349 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:36:15pm

re: #342 Charles

Again.

There is absolutely NO evidence that Van Jones has ever publicly advocated Trutherism.

None.

I've searched. There is no evidence. You're free to believe otherwise, but if you can't back it up with a link that proves it, you're just talking out of your hat.

It's a cumulation of other statements he made and the views he's stated that caused the problem when they came out in the media.

Personally never heard of the guy until the shit hit the fan..

350 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:36:29pm
351 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:36:35pm

re: #334 Pianobuff

What are the odds that Tapper or Garrett asks Gibbs a question that looks for a denial that Jones approved or otherwise knew his name was going on that petition?

Fair, but Gibbo will simply say that Jones has already answered that in his public statement and then move on to some other question.

352 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:36:39pm

re: #345 Jim in Virginia

Scarsdale/ Sagemont?

Brio, baby!

/Sagemont

353 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:36:42pm
354 noshariaincanada  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:37:03pm

re: #342 Charles

Again.

There is absolutely NO evidence that Van Jones has ever publicly advocated Trutherism.

None.

I've searched. There is no evidence. You're free to believe otherwise, but if you can't back it up with a link that proves it, you're just talking out of your hat.

not to be a pain, but are you saying that if it is not on the web then it does not exist, and further that if you cannot find it on the web then it *surely* cannot exist?

355 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:37:05pm

re: #342 Charles

Again.

There is absolutely NO evidence that Van Jones has ever publicly advocated Trutherism.

None.

I've searched. There is no evidence. You're free to believe otherwise, but if you can't back it up with a link that proves it, you're just talking out of your hat.

Here Here. Lets move on to discuss the man's evident assholeism.

356 jamgarr  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:37:26pm

re: #341 DrNaughty

Leftists do always have this "lean and hungry look'... and tend to be nasty..

Large people, on the other hand, tend to be much more pleasant to be around..

It's all the Ramen noodles.

357 The False God  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:37:30pm

re: #342 Charles

I think you're right, but I am still unnerved by the fact that he doesn't just categorically deny that he signed it. When a politician refuses to be black and white about something, you know there's a ton of gray that they're trying to keep behind the curtain.

And Zombie's comments don't exactly make me feel good, either.

358 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:37:31pm

re: #354 noshariaincanada

not to be a pain, but are you saying that if it is not on the web then it does not exist, and further that if you cannot find it on the web then it *surely* cannot exist?

The burden of evidence is on the accuser.

359 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:37:58pm

re: #343 JamesTKirk

They're all online. I stopped reading WaPo and WashTimes years ago.


It's a generational thing. The wife and I have a newsprint fetish.

360 Formercorpsman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:38:08pm

re: #271 Charles

Not to be contrary Charles, but I recall getting home from work on 09/11/2001, and watching video plastered on every station of colliding with the towers.

I would be curious to know, who these folks were weeks after 911 thinking it was a bombing.

361 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:38:24pm

re: #354 noshariaincanada

not to be a pain, but are you saying that if it is not on the web then it does not exist, and further that if you cannot find it on the web then it *surely* cannot exist?

Feel free to ignore what I say. What do I know about searching the web?

362 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:38:26pm

re: #327 MandyManners

It is a defense, but as Charles indicated, there is a lot more to U.K. libel law than one would think. See for example, libel tourism.

363 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:38:59pm

re: #347 OldLineTexan
I've got a laptop. Quietest place in the house.

364 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:39:01pm

re: #293 zombie

You are tying his position to something someone else said. This is like watching a monkey flinging poo hoping something sticks.

365 zombie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:39:06pm

OK, gotta go -- family beckons.

No offense to anyone -- and I mean that.

366 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:39:10pm

re: #327 MandyManners

History of the World: Part I is on. I'm gonna' slack off.

It's good to be the King! Pull!

367 jamgarr  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:39:12pm

I thought this used to be the Home of the 48 Hour Rule

368 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:39:13pm

re: #321 JamesTKirk

And she somehow managed to blame that on racism.

Rangel Plays Race Card, Says Obamacare The Victim

A major newspaper is calling for his resignation as chairman of the committee that writes tax laws.

And then there's this: The 79-year-old is under fire for comments he made about race and President Barack Obama.

First, Gov. David Paterson did it. Now, Rep. Rangel is doing it as an ethics probe heats up.

The "it" is playing the race card. Rangel said "bias" and "prejudice" are fueling opposition to health care reform.

Already under fire for a wide range of ethical questions, Rangel played the race card in a health care forum the other night, saying racial bias against President Obama is behind opposition to health care reform.

"Some Americans have not gotten over the fact that Obama is President of the United States. They go to sleep wondering, 'how did this happen?'"

Rangel also likened the fight to provide health care for the uninsured to the fight for civil rights.

"Why do black people have to bargain for what is theirs? Why do we have to wait for the right to vote? Why can't we get what God has given us? And that is the right to live as human beings and not negotiate with white southerners and not court the votes. Just do the right thing," Rangel said.

/racism seems to be reason for most things lately

369 pingemi  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:39:32pm

Charles I like and respect you but the parsing of the statement is consistent with pols ducking an embarrassing revelation. I think Zombie is spot on concerning this.

In his previous capacity and in the radical circles that he ran with Trutherism is not an odd thing.

I understand that you don't trust the Truthers as a source and that is logical and I also understand that you don't trust and care for Jones' critics such as Beck but your absolutest position on this doesn't seem logical.

For example I believe Ron Paul is a nut and his absolutest position on the wars is foolish, but that doesn't mean his statements on excessive government spending are wrong, it just that his solutions are extreme and nuts. The idea that "Ron Paul is a nut" and "the government spends too much money" are not mutually exclusive.

The BNP for example is a bunch of racists and you have been right to go after them, but that doesn't mean that Radical Islam is not a threat, it just means that their solution is almost as bad as the problem. The statements: "BNP are a bunch of racists" and "Radical Islam is a danger to civilized society" are not mutually exclusive.

Likewise the statements: "Glenn Beck is not an example of excellence in broadcasting", "9/11 Truthers are not to be trusted", and " Van Jones is at best a "former" truther." are not mutually exclusive either.

I suspect that Jones is as trustworthy a source as the truthers.

Remember the phrase "anti-anti-communists." as Jay Nordlinger put it:

During the Cold War, we used to speak of anti-anti-Communists. These were people (on the left) who were not exactly pro-Communist. But they so hated the anti-Communists, they were . . . well, anti-anti-Communists — the best, the fairest name for them.

Today, there are anti-anti-Islamofascists. They are not on the Islamofascist side in the War on Terror. But they hate those who are fighting, or attempting to fight, the Islamofascists more than they could ever hate the Islamofascists. They are anti-anti-Islamofascists.

The similarities between yesterday’s anti-anti-Communists and today’s anti-anti-Islamofascists would make a very good essay — perhaps by David Pryce-Jones or Norman Podhoretz. Of course, many of today’s anti-anti-Islamofascists were yesterday’s anti-anti-Communists — I mean, the same people, in the flesh.

And it’s all embodied in a publication such as The New York Review of Books.

It's an easy trap to fall into. You may have legitimate beefs with Jones critics but as Zombie notes his past profile and his weasel answers fit both the profile for a truthers and for a pol trying to duck an issue to save his job.

If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt that's fine, but his opponents not being clean doesn't make him trustworthy.

370 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:39:49pm

re: #322 unrealizedviewpoint

Hillary has no option but to resign and run. She has to be President! To win, she will drag his policies stinking through the streets. Obama's got no chance even if he wins the nomination. She will destroy him.

* * * *
Is that why Hillary met with HOnduras' Chavez clone, the de-throned Zelaya, in Washington today?

Today the US cut off $200 million in aid to Honduras, to support the pro-communist Zelaya friend of Chavez.

371 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:39:58pm

re: #332 Coracle

How can you say factually incorrect? Based on what?, The kid on the radio
said that he was there & he called 911 & took the finger tip to the hospital.
The LA Times actually said that the Move On guy lost his finger, clearly not true.
The kid said that he was there. Did he make it up, maybe , but I doubt it.
Where did you get your account?

372 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:39:58pm

Time for me to go. In bed. G'nite all.

373 Formercorpsman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:40:24pm

re: #360 Formercorpsman

jets colliding with towers

374 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:40:36pm
re: #368 Killian Bundy

Didn't Rangel say a few years back that Tax Cut was code for racist?

375 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:40:37pm

re: #365 zombie

OK, gotta go -- family beckons.

No offense to anyone -- and I mean that.

Be safe.

376 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:40:39pm

re: #369 pingemi

Go ahead. Show me the evidence.

377 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:40:51pm

re: #373 Formercorpsman

jets colliding with towers

And the Pentagon. Don't forget the Pentagon.

378 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:41:28pm

re: #356 jamgarr

It's all the Ramen noodles.

No, it's the vegetarian diet and our extremely active sex lives.

379 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:41:41pm

re: #354 noshariaincanada

not to be a pain, but are you saying that if it is not on the web then it does not exist, and further that if you cannot find it on the web then it *surely* cannot exist?

I took it to mean that if you can't provide supporting evidence for your assertion then it can't be something that he will believe in.

380 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:41:49pm

re: #369 pingemi

And I noticed that you snuck in some support for the BNP.

381 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:42:03pm

re: #371 opnion

How can you say factually incorrect? Based on what?, The kid on the radio
said that he was there & he called 911 & took the finger tip to the hospital.
The LA Times actually said that the Move On guy lost his finger, clearly not true.
The kid said that he was there. Did he make it up, maybe , but I doubt it.
Where did you get your account?

Read the link in my post. Rice himself told the police he threw the first punch.

382 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:42:09pm

re: #379 John Neverbend

I took it to mean that if you can't provide supporting evidence for your assertion then it can't be something that he will believe in.

Lack of evidence is not evidence.

383 jamgarr  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:42:17pm

re: #378 iceweasel

No, it's the vegetarian diet and our extremely active sex lives.


I stand corrected. Gotta get that protein somewhere.

384 kansas  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:42:21pm

re: #374 kansas

[Video]Didn't Rangel say a few years back that Tax Cut was code for racist?

Ignore the video, I was watching the Van Jones video again with the new knowledge of what Lawrence Summers had said.

385 Formercorpsman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:42:29pm

re: #377 JamesTKirk

I understand, and essentially include that & Pennsylvania without saying so.

386 experiencedtraveller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:42:48pm

re: #377 JamesTKirk

And the Pentagon. Don't forget the Pentagon.

And the tape of Bin Ladin laughing about it. Don't forget that.

387 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:43:17pm

re: #382 JamesTKirk

Lack of evidence is not evidence.

We went though that in 2003/2004 with the WMD debate and why we couldn't find any in Iraq once we cleaned Saddam out...

388 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:43:38pm

re: #386 experiencedtraveller

And the tape of Bin Ladin laughing about it. Don't forget that.

And Michael Moore complaining that the wrong Americans were killed.

389 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:43:49pm

re: #339 Slumbering Behemoth

Let me see if I am reading you correctly. Is the young guy saying that the "biter" grabbed the "puncher" first?

I've been reading stuff that says in the "puncher's" tv interview, the "puncher" admitted to being at fault.

All I heard is the kids account on the radio, I have not heard another thing.
If the puncher claims guilt, that is another thing, but there was quite an age & size disparity.

390 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:43:56pm

re: #382 JamesTKirk

Lack of evidence is not evidence.

I wish I had said that Oscar.

391 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:43:58pm

re: #370 alegrias

* * * *
Is that why Hillary met with HOnduras' Chavez clone, the de-throned Zelaya, in Washington today?

Today the US cut off $200 million in aid to Honduras, to support the pro-communist Zelaya friend of Chavez.

The Admin. has sliced up the world. There are so few parts of this world Obama permits Hillary to operate in. What's she to do? She has orders. He is the President.

392 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:44:06pm

re: #371 opnion

How can you say factually incorrect? Based on what?

Based on the article he linked in his post, apparently.

Scott Bush, 43, of Thousand Oaks said he was standing with Rice in the group opposed to healthcare reform when the man walked over from the Moveon.org group. Bush said the man asked the group if it supported a public health insurer option, and members responded “no.” The man then singled out Rice and asked him why, according to Bush. When Rice responded that he didn’t want the government involved in anything, the man moved toward Rice and yelled, “You’re an idiot,” Bush said.

Bush said Rice then hit the man in a defensive move. The man then pulled Rice into the street, according to Bush.

Seems to me the young guy calling into the radio show you cite might be remembering it incorrectly.

393 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:44:11pm

re: #388 JamesTKirk

And Michael Moore complaining that the wrong Americans were killed.

I can't help but notice he's been very much off the stage recently

394 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:44:28pm

re: #335 lawhawk

Having been in NYC and Lower Manhattan on 9/11 - and walked through the dust cloud on my walk to walking over the Manhattan Bridge in to Brooklyn, and then following the news to find out if anyone I knew happened to have been murdered in the attacks, the claim that it was a bombing is ... in a word...

preposterous. (well, that's all I'll say about it without going [deleted])

I saw the videos of the plane hits. I saw the collapses. No bombs there - it was all about the jihadis hijacking the planes and flinging them into skyscrapers to incinerate and obliterate tens of thousands of people. We were lucky as only about 3,000 people were murdered. Only.

I do recall reports of bombs in regards for the Pentagon attack, but even that nonsense was demolished with the parking lot video showing the plane slamming into the side of the Pentagon. There were even reports of the State Dept being hit with a bomb, but that turned to be a false rumor.

Where the 9/11 bomb theories have truly taken hold is on the collapse of 7WTC, which came down later in the day on 9/11/01, and there were reports of the building being pulled, but that's because the FDNY was pulling their remaining firefighters away from the building since it was showing signs of collapse after taking serious damage from the collapsing Twin Towers.

In fact, for a week or more, it was thought that other buildings might come down because of the damage sustained.

But the troofers take any discrete statement and turn it into part of the conspiracy.

Did the Troofers add his name to the list? Plausible.
Did Van sign it but now regret it? More likely.
Did Van get caught in Troofer-ville and now realize that he's got to throw someone under the bus? Looking likely.

[deleted]

WTC 7 had a 30,000 gallon diesel tank in it for emergency generator use. It lit up. From that time forward, the building was doomed. Diesel burns slow, but it burns damn hot. Shockingly enough, it will make steel lose its structural strength and buckle.

///Inside job!!///

395 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:44:39pm

re: #297 TheMatrix31

With zero evidence. No wonder this country is in the shape it's in.

396 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:44:41pm

re: #393 DrNaughty

I can't help but notice he's been very much off the stage recently

It's harder and harder to find a stage that will support him.

397 DeliLama  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:44:42pm

So Charles is staking out a position in that empty no-man's land we used to call "truth" or "reality", words that have long since lost their meaning. A place of intense skepticism and almost religious objectivity. Something even journalists have long since discarded. I suspect it will be a lonely place for a long time. Vaya con Dios.

398 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:44:51pm

re: #387 DrNaughty

We went though that in 2003/2004 with the WMD debate and why we couldn't find any in Iraq once we cleaned Saddam out...

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. - Carl Sagan.

399 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:44:51pm

re: #389 opnion

I told you exactly that in my post, and included a link to the news story in which he said it. I didn't think your reading skills were in question.

400 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:44:56pm

It doesn't matter if he signed that statement or not. What I am afraid of is what he believes in NOW. This is guy is consistently leftist and his vision of the world scares the crap out of me. Redistribution of wealth, anti-capitalist, statist, and a firm believe that only a benevolent government can deliver prosperity from above. I hope he fails at his job, just like I hope his boss does too.

401 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:44:58pm
402 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:45:35pm

re: #397 DeliLama

So Charles is staking out a position in that empty no-man's land we used to call "truth" or "reality", words that have long since lost their meaning. A place of intense skepticism and almost religious objectivity. Something even journalists have long since discarded. I suspect it will be a lonely place for a long time. Vaya con Dios.

Perception is the reality...

403 rain of lead  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:46:01pm

things that make you go ...aww crap!
health care reform means more power for the IRSThe Democrats' plan would require all Americans to have "acceptable" insurance coverage (the legislation includes long and complex definitions of "acceptable") and would designate the IRS as the agency charged with enforcing that requirement. On your yearly 1040 tax return, you would be required to attest that you have "acceptable" coverage. Of course, you might be lying, or simply confused about whether or not you are covered, so the IRS would need a way to check your claim for accuracy. Under current plans, insurers would be required to submit to the IRS something like the 1099 form in which taxpayers report outside income. The IRS would then check the information it receives from the insurers against what you have submitted on your tax form.

If it all matches up, you're fine. If it doesn't, you will hear from the IRS. And if you don't have "acceptable" coverage, you will be subject to substantial fines — fines that will be administered by the IRS.


read the whole...aw you know

404 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:46:07pm

re: #400 Desert Dog

It doesn't matter if he signed that statement or not. What I am afraid of is what he believes in NOW. This is guy is consistently leftist and his vision of the world scares the crap out of me. Redistribution of wealth, anti-capitalist, statist, and a firm believe that only a benevolent government can deliver prosperity from above. I hope he fails at his job, just like I hope his boss does too.

Glenn Beck is lying to you. And you don't care.

405 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:46:26pm
406 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:46:49pm

re: #404 Charles

Glenn Beck is lying to you. And you don't care.

What makes you think I listen to Glenn Beck? The only time I have seen him is on the clips loaded here.

407 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:47:08pm

re: #389 opnion

All I heard is the kids account on the radio, I have not heard another thing.
If the puncher claims guilt, that is another thing, but there was quite an age & size disparity.

There seems to be an age disparity, but definitely not much a size disparity.

I don't think that kid is a reliable source.

408 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:47:16pm

So he's not a truther, he's just a former Communist who's recently converted to "Green-Capitalism".

I feel much better about him now.

409 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:47:20pm

re: #376 Charles

Go ahead. Show me the evidence.

Heh. From someone who is obviously conjecturing. Good luck. He just *feels* its real. So it must be.

If it fits your agenda, logic goes out the window.

410 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:47:33pm

re: #406 Desert Dog

What makes you think I listen to Glenn Beck? The only time I have seen him is on the clips loaded here.

I mostly avoid even those.

//No really. I'm off to bed.

411 The False God  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:47:35pm

re: #380 Charles

He wasn't supporting them. He called them a bunch of racists. His point is that BNP knuckledraggers being anti-Islamic doesn't mean that there isn't a serious threat from extremist Islam. Just because X is bad and opposes Y, doesn't mean that Y is good.

Both are bad apples.

412 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:48:00pm

re: #405 houstonmike

The nuts in this case are the ones calling others troofers with ZERO proof.

413 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:48:28pm

OT

Michael Jackson's getting buried in the Forest Lawn Memorial Park right now in California. Remember he died June 25 and Charles Johnson was on that story.

414 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:48:53pm

re: #413 alegrias

OT

Michael Jackson's getting buried in the Forest Lawn Memorial Park right now in California. Remember he died June 25 and Charles Johnson was on that story.

You mean he's still dead?

415 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:49:15pm

I believe Charles- who is the only person here with any real credibility. If he says he hasn't found a link to Van Jones and trooferism- I believe him.

416 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:49:30pm

re: #414 Coracle

You mean he's still dead?

His nose, thank god, is still alive though

417 JamesTKirk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:49:30pm

re: #412 Sharmuta

The nuts in this case are the ones calling others troofers with ZERO proof.

Does that make them proofers?

418 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:49:31pm

China's national flag to go up in White House on Sept 20

The national flag of the People's Republic of China (PRC) will be hoisted at the South Lawn of the White House in Washington on September 20, media reported Sunday.

Chinese associations in the United States had applied to hold a ceremony in front of the US President’s residence to celebrate the 60th anniversary of the founding of PRC.

/lovely, too bad the USSR isn't still around

419 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:49:38pm

re: #392 Slumbering Behemoth

Seems to me the young guy calling into the radio show you cite might be remembering it incorrectly.

Certainly possible, but the kid said that the Move On guy was acting very agressive & got in his face like a baseball manager to an umpire.
By law that can be considered an assault, you do not need battery.
If he pulled the old guy into the street , then you have battery.
Hard to tell.

420 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:49:40pm

re: #239 Slumbering Behemoth

The guy lost his finger in the process of punching the other guy in the mouth. The puncher inserted his own finger into the punchee's mouth. Tough shit, I say.

Tough shit?

So the puncher deserved it? He deserved harassment too?
Why did the pussy finger-biter run off?

re: #239 Slumbering Behemoth

The guy lost his finger in the process of punching the other guy in the mouth. The puncher inserted his own finger into the punchee's mouth. Tough shit, I say.

Tough shit?
So the puncher deserved it? He deserved harassment too?
Why did pussy finger biter run off?

Remember when Mike Tyson bit his opponent's ear off during a fight? Was that a "tough shit" moment too?

421 pingemi  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:49:52pm

Another good test would be to see if he decided to sue for defamation for his name being on such a list.

I would think that this would certainly be a matter of defamation.

But I suspect the next few days will see everything flow out one way or the other.

The bottom line is the internet will remember you. Of course if this is a fake document then Charles is just the chap to establish it as Mr. Rather right remember.

422 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:49:53pm

Good evening.

The market rose fractionally today after 4 down days.

Another Fed Chief runs his mouth:


Dallas Fed chief sees 'deflationary risk' as pre-eminent
Fisher sees 'post-traumatic slack syndrome' affecting businesses in near term


Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas President Richard Fisher said late Thursday that he anticipates businesses will continue to keep a tight rein on spending in the near future, as "markets are still a long way from having normalized."

In remarks prepared for a speech at the University of California, Santa Barbara, Fisher said that for the immediate future, "the risk to price stability is a deflationary risk, not an inflationary one," placing himself on the side of those policymakers who are still more worried about growth than the risk the Fed's ultra-loose money policies will result in heated inflation.

Fisher said that based on a survey of CEOs at key companies, he believes the private sector is currently grappling with excess capacity, and "suffering from shock induced by the trauma of the crisis." He termed the condition "post-traumatic slack syndrome."

That will result in a prolonged period of tight budgets as companies seek to preserve their bottom lines, Fisher said.

He added: "My guess is it will be a long time before we see growth strong enough and sustained enough to make an appreciable dent in excess capacity."


I love it. A different Fed Chief was talking about how the Fed would need to quickly raise rates to stem jumping inflation once the destruction of jobs stops.

Ben Bernanke had better hold a team meeting real quick and remind them who is boss. This mixed signals stuff is gong to send a clear message to the market that the Fed is a Chinese fire drill.

Ben, for the love of God, lay the law down to your subordinates.

423 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:50:26pm

re: #408 Ringo the Gringo

So he's not a truther, he's just a former Communist who's recently converted to "Green-Capitalism".

I feel much better about him now.

Yeah, isn't it a comforting feeling?

424 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:50:46pm

re: #416 Desert Dog

His nose, thank god, is still alive though

Can we clone it?

425 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:50:47pm

re: #406 Desert Dog

What makes you think I listen to Glenn Beck? The only time I have seen him is on the clips loaded here.

I have seen him once outside of here.

426 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:50:47pm

re: #420 FrogMarch

oops - double post. wee-rod!

427 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:50:48pm

re: #419 opnion

Certainly possible, but the kid said that the Move On guy was acting very agressive & got in his face like a baseball manager to an umpire.
By law that can be considered an assault, you do not need battery.
If he pulled the old guy into the street , then you have battery.
Hard to tell.

It is indeed hard to tell if you ignore what Rice himself said about the incident.

428 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:51:01pm

re: #418 Killian Bundy

China's national flag to go up in White House on Sept 20

/lovely, too bad the USSR isn't still around

Celebrating the birth of the nation that killed how many Americans in Korea?

429 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:51:03pm

re: #408 Ringo the Gringo

So he's not a truther, he's just a former Communist who's recently converted to "Green-Capitalism".

I feel much better about him now.

I'm not supporting Van Jones.

I don't know how many times I have to post that.

But there are LIES being circulated about him. Argue with his positions, denounce him for his radical leftist background, all of that is fair.

But the non-stop lying makes me sick.

430 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:51:07pm

re: #411 The False God

He wasn't supporting them. He called them a bunch of racists. His point is that BNP knuckledraggers being anti-Islamic doesn't mean that there isn't a serious threat from extremist Islam. Just because X is bad and opposes Y, doesn't mean that Y is good.

Both are bad apples.

Lie down with dogs...

431 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:51:50pm

re: #417 JamesTKirk

I'm shocked that people at this blog are accepting Van Jones is a troofer without any facts being presented. This is supposed to be a fact checking site, and folks are willing to buy into bullshit because it fits their preconceived ideas. That's not anti-idiotarianism, at least in my mind.

432 noshariaincanada  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:51:58pm

re: #361 Charles

Feel free to ignore what I say. What do I know about searching the web?

I am not ignoring what you're sayin but now you are falling into the logical fallacy of appealing to authority (you being the authority -on web searching in this case.)

I do not automatically believe something just because I can find supporting evidence for it on the interwebs, nor do I believe the absence of information on the web on a particular matter means that it is not possible/plausible.

Consider alternative sources, is all I'm saying.

Maybe talk to Zombie, offline?

433 livefreeor die  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:52:02pm

re: #424 John Neverbend

Can we clone it?

That would solve the world's problems-hundreds of Michael Jacksons running around.

434 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:52:09pm

re: #414 Coracle

You mean he's still dead?

* * * *
Well, the good news Michael Jackson's estate is now profitable again, so they will be able to pay back California for all the costs his first funeral incurred.

Poor California. So many fires recently. So much red ink.

435 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:52:32pm

re: #431 Sharmuta

I'm shocked that people at this blog are accepting Van Jones is a troofer without any facts being presented. This is supposed to be a fact checking site, and folks are willing to buy into bullshit because it fits their preconceived ideas. That's not anti-idiotarianism, at least in my mind.

It's the culmination of all of the statements he's made

436 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:52:42pm

re: #413 alegrias

Michael Jackson's getting buried in the Forest Lawn Memorial Park right now in California. Remember he died June 25 and Charles Johnson was on that story.

I wonder where his nose is.

437 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:52:44pm

re: #420 FrogMarch

Tough shit?
So the puncher deserved it? He deserved harassment too?
Why did pussy finger biter run off?

Remember when Mike Tyson bit his opponent's ear off during a fight? Was that a "tough shit" moment too?

If you sock a guy in the face just because he calls you an idiot, then yeah, tough shit. Has nothing to do with Tyson.

And as I said before, the puncher put his finger into the biter's mouth, while punching him. So yeah, tough shit.

438 DeliLama  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:52:44pm

re: #402 DrNaughty

Perception is the reality...


What's that saying, truth is the first casualty of war? I think when you have sizeable internal conflicts like what we've been increasingly seeing these years, the truth is a rare comodity that no one wants. The high road is a goat path. しょうが無い, it can't be helped.

439 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:52:51pm

"Bush Lied"
"Van Jones is a Truther."

Nasty world politics.

440 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:52:56pm

re: #399 Coracle

I told you exactly that in my post, and included a link to the news story in which he said it. I didn't think your reading skills were in question.

Oh no, did I gloss over your profound post? Get over yourself.

441 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:53:12pm

re: #433 livefreeor die

That would solve the world's problems-hundreds of Michael Jacksons running around.

I was thinking of just one clone, like in Woody Allen's "Sleeper".

442 Alberta Oil Peon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:53:16pm

re: #80 Charles

There's no question that Troofers are batshit crazy, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Van Jones has not flat-out denied signing that statement, and that fact is troubling to me, and apparently also to others here. I see it as quite possible that a political activist like Jones would have signed such a statement, not necessarily because he believes the Troofer nonsense, but because of the political mischief-making potential.

And of course the Troofers are using Jones' (alleged) signature to make mischief, because that's what they do.

But Jones is using weasel words, and seems to carefully avoiding a flat-out denial that he signed the document, perhaps because he knows that the signature might be verifiable.

If he really wanted to defuse this issue, he could say, "Yeah, I signed it. I never really believed in that BS, but I wanted to figuratively give the finger to G.W. Bush, so I signed it. That's ancient history, I'm older and wiser now."

443 cronus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:53:18pm

@jaketapper a source says Jones didn't carefully review the petition before agreeing to add his name.

444 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:53:24pm

re: #435 DrNaughty

It's the culmination of all of the statements he's made

Where his statements that 9/11 was an inside job?

445 VioletTiger  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:53:26pm

I remember when Obama was putting together his administration and his transition team there was a lot of talk about the long list of questions people had to answer. Obama team digs deep.
Did they lose their shovels? He may not be a truther but there are plenty of other things out there that should have been examined a bit deeper.

I would like to hear him interviewed and have a chance to answer questions about his background and beliefs. That would be the quickest way to set things straight (for the sane people, that is).

446 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:53:39pm

re: #436 3 wood

I wonder where his nose is.

Actually there was talk he was to be buried with out his brain. Anyone have knowledge?

447 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:53:45pm

re: #431 Sharmuta

I'm shocked that people at this blog are accepting Van Jones is a troofer without any facts being presented. This is supposed to be a fact checking site, and folks are willing to buy into bullshit because it fits their preconceived ideas. That's not anti-idiotarianism, at least in my mind.

Agenda, agenda, agenda...

Easier than seeking the truth.

ODS running rampant. Glad to see it's so much milder than BDS...

448 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:54:25pm

re: #427 Coracle

It is indeed hard to tell if you ignore what Rice himself said about the incident.

Look let me try this again, Assault does not need the element of battery.
Get it?

449 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:54:34pm

re: #437 Slumbering Behemoth

If you sock a guy in the face just because he calls you an idiot, then yeah, tough shit. Has nothing to do with Tyson.

And as I said before, the puncher put his finger into the biter's mouth, while punching him. So yeah, tough shit.

I agree. The guy admitted outright that he punched the pro-Obama guy TWICE, with no physical provocation. I have no sympathy at all for him.

450 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:55:02pm

re: #432 noshariaincanada

I am not ignoring what you're sayin but now you are falling into the logical fallacy of appealing to authority (you being the authority -on web searching in this case.)

I do not automatically believe something just because I can find supporting evidence for it on the interwebs, nor do I believe the absence of information on the web on a particular matter means that it is not possible/plausible.

Consider alternative sources, is all I'm saying.

Maybe talk to Zombie, offline?

Interwebs? Hmmm...

451 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:55:05pm

re: #415 Sharmuta

I believe Charles- who is the only person here with any real credibility. If he says he hasn't found a link to Van Jones and trooferism- I believe him.

I believe him too. But remember, sometimes people, both left and right, sign on to things that they don't necessarily believe. At anti-war demonstrations radical organizations and conspiracy groups walk around gathering signatures and people sign without thinking. If your group's petition was sufficiently anti-Bush just about anyone might sign it.

452 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:55:39pm

re: #52 zombie

The Truthers have not been proven to be lying yet. Yes, they're Truthers, and completely demented as a result, but he signed on to their petition, and doesn't deny that he signed on to their petition, even now.

At the time, truthers were mostly of the LIHOP persuasion. They wanted to know why the government ignored the warnings from earlier in the summer (a member here actually trotted out that talking point on a different thread this morning). Because of the hatred for Bush from the left and much of the media, they tried to turn a historical briefing with information collected from the 90's to the summer of 2001 into an X marks the spot warning. We now know that a federal intelligence report issued in 1999 suggested that terrorists might use planes to attack the capitol and pentagon (apparently they read Tom Clancy) but there was never any hard evidence corroborated by all intelligence agencies pointing to a specific plot during a specific time frame. The media were just as hysterical as the truthers and they helped develop the movement.

453 J.S.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:56:05pm

re: #167 Killian Bundy

Reuters has noted that there's a book soon to be published (due out in mid Sept.), titled: ""Shadow Government: What Obama Doesn't Want You To Know About His Czars" link to the Reuters note here.

454 The False God  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:56:06pm

re: #430 austin_blue

I don't follow. Your logic is that somehow denouncing both the BNP and extremist Islam makes him... in support of the BNP?

His entire point is logically sound and seems to be overlooked. Being opposed to radical Islam does NOT make you a part of the BNP, assorted other European racist groups, American white supremacists, or what have you, just because they also oppose radical Islam.

Just because bad people try to co-op your viewpoint doesn't mean that you agree with all of theirs. I still maintain that radical Islam, which promotes violence and Islamic supremacy, is as much of a threat as any other racist supremacy groups. They should all be opposed with every fiber of our bodies. I refuse your assertion that attempts to fight radical Islam is giving aid to white supremacists.

You might as well roll over and die if you operate under that logic, because everything you do in life helps some bad people, somewhere, in some way. You still have to keep fighting for the right principle in the right way.

455 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:56:07pm

re: #429 Charles

I'm not supporting Van Jones.

I don't know how many times I have to post that.

But there are LIES being circulated about him. Argue with his positions, denounce him for his radical leftist background, all of that is fair.

But the non-stop lying makes me sick.

You're right...I agree.

456 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:56:07pm

re: #451 Ringo the Gringo

I've never 'hand signed' a petition in my life.

457 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:56:09pm

re: #437 Slumbering Behemoth

If you sock a guy in the face just because he calls you an idiot, then yeah, tough shit. Has nothing to do with Tyson.

And as I said before, the puncher put his finger into the biter's mouth, while punching him. So yeah, tough shit.

It takes a lot to bite off a digit. Punching is a totally different ball game.
If some punk leftist harassed me, I might think about defending myself.
Biting a finger off is the act of a coward.

458 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:56:14pm

re: #451 Ringo the Gringo

I believe him too. But remember, sometimes people, both left and right, sign on to things that they don't necessarily believe. At anti-war demonstrations radical organizations and conspiracy groups walk around gathering signatures and people sign without thinking. If your group's petition was sufficiently anti-Bush just about anyone might sign it.

Usually there is a good looking woman that is the root cause for signing

459 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:56:43pm

After STORM disbanded, a collective summation entitled Reclaiming Revolution: History, Summation, and Lessons from the Work of Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement (STORM) was written by former STORM members, collectively endorsed by a majority of the organization's former membership and was published in Spring 2004.

Van Jones and STORM

When he graduated law school, Jones gave up plans to take a job in Washington, D.C., and moved to San Francisco instead.[11] He got involved with Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement (STORM), a group explicitly committed to revolutionary Marxist politics[12] whose points of unity were revolutionary democracy, revolutionary feminism, revolutionary internationalism, the central role of the working class, urban Marxism, and Third World Communism.[13] While with STORM, Jones actively began protesting "alleged police brutality".[11]


Some source say Jones was a founder.

PDF of Reclaiming Revolution: History, Summation, and Lessons from the Work of Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement (STORM)

Go to page 28 of the document to see STORM's reaction to 9/11.
It's protected and I can't copy it, it's a recap of a link zombie posted earlier.
9-11 ATTACKS: STORM's FOUR MAIN POINTS IN RESPONSE TO THE BOMBINGS OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER & THE U.S. PENTAGON

He has or had extreme leftist even Marxist view points. The 9/11 statements are akin to ANSWER.

460 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:56:44pm

re: #418 Killian Bundy

China's national flag to go up in White House on Sept 20

/lovely, too bad the USSR isn't still around

The Birch Society is pushing that story too.
/Just sayin'

461 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:57:10pm

re: #456 unrealizedviewpoint

I've never 'hand signed' a petition in my life.

I did in high school to petition the principal to let us wear blue jeans to class...

462 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:57:26pm

re: #436 3 wood

I wonder where his nose is.

In one of these:

Image: medical_waste_bag_2.jpg

463 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:57:43pm

re: #432 noshariaincanada

I am not ignoring what you're sayin but now you are falling into the logical fallacy of appealing to authority (you being the authority -on web searching in this case.)

I do not automatically believe something just because I can find supporting evidence for it on the interwebs, nor do I believe the absence of information on the web on a particular matter means that it is not possible/plausible.

Consider alternative sources, is all I'm saying.

Maybe talk to Zombie, offline?

Right. Why not "have the discussion". Bullshit beloved by crackpots everywhere, whether it's nirthers, creationists, or the new conspiracy du jour.

Consider 'alternative sources'. Like troofers.

Charles is falling into the 'logical fallacy' of appealing to reason and evidence.
You, on the other hand, are exhibiting signs of what we in the biz like to call 'confirmation bias'. You've settled on a certain conclusion and you'll weight all the evidence to get you there, while disregarding the evidence that disproves your hypothesis.

464 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:57:46pm

re: #423 TheMatrix31

Yeah, isn't it a comforting feeling?

* * *
Communist countries were far more polluted than our country.
They burned brown coal and invested little in sanitation, plumbing, environmental quality.

Anyone who is still a communist and claims to hate capitalism, which is actually GREENER than communism, doesn't give me good feelings about ANYTHING.

465 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:57:50pm

Did some poking around on Internet Archive and didn't find anything where he references would could be described as trutherism. There's a couple of pieces where he mentions Bush, the elections, the war, post-9/11 environment, etc. Both pieces can be found here and here. Please note that the first link is to a PDF. The second is an article he wrote which includes a short list of his fears of the second term of the Bush administration -- none of which came to fruition.

466 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:57:56pm

re: #418 Killian Bundy

China's national flag to go up in White House on Sept 20

/lovely, too bad the USSR isn't still around

Not the first time a foreign flag was flown there, here's just one other from 1920:

flag.

467 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:58:06pm

Quite frankly, whether or not this guy Van Jones is a troofer (which I doubt based only on this petition thing) is the least of my concerns about the guy. His avowed communism is all I needed to know.

468 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:58:06pm

re: #448 opnion

Look let me try this again, Assault does not need the element of battery.
Get it?

Back in the cannibal thread, someone posted the legal definition of assault in CA. It required intent to do physical harm. Battery is success at doing physical harm. Rice did assault and battery. Before that, biter did neither. Got it.

469 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:58:48pm

re: #451 Ringo the Gringo

I believe him too. But remember, sometimes people, both left and right, sign on to things that they don't necessarily believe. At anti-war demonstrations radical organizations and conspiracy groups walk around gathering signatures and people sign without thinking. If your group's petition was sufficiently anti-Bush just about anyone might sign it.

That's all very true. I'm just in shock at the moment to see fact checking mean so little to some people.

470 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:59:17pm

re: #467 3 wood

Quite frankly, whether or not this guy Van Jones is a troofer (which I doubt based only on this petition thing) is the least of my concerns about the guy. His avowed communism is all I needed to know.

Life was much simpler during the Cold War...

471 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:59:24pm

I eat you pinkies! I eat them up!
[Link: www.google.com...]

472 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:59:32pm

re: #111 Slumbering Behemoth

Again, if a troofer tells me the sky is blue, you better damn well believe that I'll go outside and check for myself before I ever take a troofer's word on anything.

It would be kind of like taking tax advice from Timothy Geithner.

473 rain of lead  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:59:46pm

re: #422 3 wood
HEre: #403 rain of lead

Y WOOD!
did you see my link at 403

if obama-care goes through, even a little bit, the extra power given to the IRS scares me much more than any trooferisms

474 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 7:59:58pm

re: #471 Killgore Trout

I eat you pinkies! I eat them up!
[Link: www.google.com...]

Pinkies.. pinkies. rolly polly pinkies...

Pinkies, pinkies, eat them up .. yummm

475 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:00:06pm

re: #467 3 wood

Quite frankly, whether or not this guy Van Jones is a troofer (which I doubt based only on this petition thing) is the least of my concerns about the guy. His avowed communism is all I needed to know.

Exactly. I don't give a damn if he believes the sky is green. Fact of the matter is, he's a fucking admitted Commie and he's DAMN close to Obama, who's not so squeaky-clean himself.

476 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:00:11pm

I'm getting some really extreme hate mail tonight. Apparently I'm a Hugo Chavez supporter now, which comes as quite a surprise.

477 DeliLama  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:00:13pm
a source says Jones did not carefully review the language in the petition before agreeing to add his name.


Sounds like something Congress would do.

478 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:00:13pm

re: #428 DrNaughty

Celebrating the birth of the nation that killed how many Americans in Korea?

* * * *
Fear not,
in protest of murdering Chinese communism,
John McCain's 97 year old mother will hang her Taiwanese flag across the street from the communist Chinese embassy in Washington, DC.

479 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:00:34pm

re: #471 Killgore Trout

Link wuz supposed to be...


/You stink
480 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:00:46pm

re: #434 alegrias

Well, the good news Michael Jackson's estate is now profitable again, so they will be able to pay back California for all the costs his first funeral incurred.

He is clearing $2 million a day now. In his case, dying was a very profitable career move.

481 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:00:48pm

re: #425 opnion

I remember seeing him on HLN when I was channel surfing one day. He doesn't do much for me. I am not a big TV guy. Sponge Bob and Avatar with my 8 year old is more my speed.

482 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:01:04pm

re: #459 jcm

Go to page 28 of the document to see STORM's reaction to 9/11.
It's protected and I can't copy it, it's a recap of a link zombie posted earlier.
9-11 ATTACKS: STORM's FOUR MAIN POINTS IN RESPONSE TO THE BOMBINGS OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER & THE U.S. PENTAGON

He has or had extreme leftist even Marxist view points. The 9/11 statements are akin to ANSWER.

I've been reading that history, and it's definitely Marxist boilerplate.
There is no mention in it, however, of the U.S. government bringing down the towers.

483 The False God  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:01:48pm

re: #476 Charles

You should just filter them out and never read them. Reading hate mail means your haters have won, in some way, since you're giving them undue attention. Unless you're just sitting in a chair, drinking Scotch, laughing at them in a deep voice.

484 kcladderman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:02:03pm

re: #463 iceweasel

No i think it is most of us put more faith in what Zombie says than the truthers or Van Jones

485 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:02:35pm

re: #443 cronus

@jaketapper a source says Jones didn't carefully review the petition before agreeing to add his name.

I like Tapper. I believe he's one of the most balanced reporters left in the WH press corps. Having said that, it's disappointing that the first mention of Van Jones by Tapper (or anyone else at ABC) comes on the heels of Jones quasi-denial of Trootherism. It begs the question, why haven't the myriad of other outrageous, racists and crack-pot Van Jones comments - that have actually been captured on video or audio tape - merited any comments from Tapper or his ABC colleagues?

Say what you want about the right-wing nutcase faux-journalists, but at least they're lending a critical eye and voice to an administration that - so far - has been shielded by a very sympathetic and protective press-corps.

486 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:02:50pm

re: #475 TheMatrix31

Fact of the matter is, he's a fucking admitted Commie and he's DAMN close to Obama, who's not so squeaky-clean himself.

It seems to me that there is starting to be a team picture of Marxists in this White House.

487 rain of lead  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:02:54pm

re: #476 Charles

I'm getting some really extreme hate mail tonight. Apparently I'm a Hugo Chavez supporter now, which comes as quite a surprise.

Wow, who knew?

/

488 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:03:06pm

re: #476 Charles

I'm getting some really extreme hate mail tonight. Apparently I'm a Hugo Chavez supporter now, which comes as quite a surprise.

Hey, when you talk to him next, can you ask him for one of those Vergatorio cellphones for me?

Hugo Chavez launches mobile phone with rude name

489 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:03:15pm

re: #418 Killian Bundy

China's national flag to go up in White House on Sept 20

/lovely, too bad the USSR isn't still around

To celebrate the founding of the PRC?

Celebrate?

490 Dahveed  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:03:29pm

re: #459 jcm

FWIW - Van Jones is also a "Free Mumia" activist.

On Friday, January 15, Mumia's lead attorney Leonard Weinglass spoke to over a hundred students in three classes at Oakland High, where students asked detailed questions about the issues of the case, including asking how the police could get away with intimidating witnesses. Later in the day, he spoke to several classes at Castlemont High School, along with police accountability activist Van Jones, and Jeff Mackler from the Bay Area Mobilization to Free Mumia.

491 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:03:31pm

Twelve hate mails so far, all because I posted this article.

492 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:03:31pm

re: #486 3 wood

It seems to me that there is starting to be a team picture of Marxists in this White House.

The head marxist sleeps on the 2nd floor

493 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:03:33pm

re: #482 jaunte

I've been reading that history, and it's definitely Marxist boilerplate.
There is no mention in it, however, of the U.S. government bringing down the towers.

It's all US imperialism and aggression, chickens coming home to roost stuff. But correct no trooferism.

494 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:03:50pm

re: #427 Coracle

It is indeed hard to tell if you ignore what Rice himself said about the incident.


Ya know what, I just went back & read the link.
The old guy said that his personal space was invaded & he thought that he had to defend himself. That is a lot different than he started it.
Google assault.

495 John Neverbend  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:03:56pm

re: #480 3 wood

He is clearing $2 million a day now. In his case, dying was a very profitable career move.

"Hi, Ford," said Zaphod, "you speak to the big noise boy?"

Ford waggled his head noncommittally.

"Hotblack? I sort of spoke to him, yeah."

"What'd he say?"

"Well, not a lot really. He's ... er ..."

"Yeah?"

"He's spending a year dead for tax reasons."

496 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:03:58pm
497 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:04:29pm

re: #473 rain of lead

Y WOOD!
did you see my link at 403

if obama-care goes through, even a little bit, the extra power given to the IRS scares me much more than any troofer

Yes, I also posted a few days back sections of HR 3200 that authorizes the IRS to turn over just about anything in your tax returns to the health care staffers that they want to see. Ponder that one for a few minutes.

498 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:04:31pm

re: #484 kcladderman

Charles has no credibility in your mind?

499 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:04:45pm

re: #490 Dahveed

FWIW - Van Jones is also a "Free Mumia" activist.

Can't be a real lefty with a Che, and Free Mumia tee in closet!

500 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:04:48pm

re: #454 The False God

I don't follow. Your logic is that somehow denouncing both the BNP and extremist Islam makes him... in support of the BNP?

His entire point is logically sound and seems to be overlooked. Being opposed to radical Islam does NOT make you a part of the BNP, assorted other European racist groups, American white supremacists, or what have you, just because they also oppose radical Islam.

Just because bad people try to co-op your viewpoint doesn't mean that you agree with all of theirs. I still maintain that radical Islam, which promotes violence and Islamic supremacy, is as much of a threat as any other racist supremacy groups. They should all be opposed with every fiber of our bodies. I refuse your assertion that attempts to fight radical Islam is giving aid to white supremacists.

You might as well roll over and die if you operate under that logic, because everything you do in life helps some bad people, somewhere, in some way. You still have to keep fighting for the right principle in the right way.

Dude, if you want to denounce extremist Islam (specifically Sallafism, an extremist form of which Al Queda embraces), please do so. You have the right of free speech! You can speak your mind!

When you do so, do not mention the BNP, which would be happy if every black and brown person in the UK was dragged out of their home and set afire.

Why is this unclear to you? Make your basic position. It should stand on its merits. Don't continue to flap your cake hole by justifying your position with those of racists and fascists.

That would be...unwise.

501 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:05:06pm

re: #489 Wendya

To celebrate the founding of the PRC?

Celebrate?

Well, that have purchased the USA...so, it's only fitting.

502 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:05:12pm

re: #476 Charles

I'm getting some really extreme hate mail tonight. Apparently I'm a Hugo Chavez supporter now, which comes as quite a surprise.

Hugo Chavez supporter? I think the correct word would be Bolivarian. Again, the hate emailers get it wrong. ;)

503 noshariaincanada  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:05:14pm

re: #484 kcladderman

No i think it is most of us put more faith in what Zombie says than the truthers or Van Jones

uh oh, I see Charles is downdinging support for Zombie's line of reasoning. Beware.

504 Fiery Red XIII  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:05:24pm

re: #457 FrogMarch

It takes a lot to bite off a digit. Punching is a totally different ball game.
If some punk leftist harassed me, I might think about defending myself.
Biting a finger off is the act of a coward.

You know how many 1 punch fatlities have made news in my state over the past couple years? Quite a few for it being 1 punch.

Red

505 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:05:26pm

re: #466 avanti

Not the first time a foreign flag was flown there, here's just one other from 1920:

flag.

That's nice.

/but France isn't aa adversarial communist country with an abominable human rights record

506 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:05:31pm

re: #494 opnion

Ya know what, I just went back & read the link.
The old guy said that his personal space was invaded & he thought that he had to defend himself. That is a lot different than he started it.
Google assault.

How about you look at the first discussion here, instead.

507 pingemi  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:05:36pm

#380 Charles I resent the suggestion that I support the BNP or that my statement was support for the BNP Let me quote myself from comment # 369.

The BNP for example is a bunch of racists and you have been right to go after them...

I think that is a pretty clear denunciation of them. I continued:

...but that doesn't mean that Radical Islam is not a threat, it just means that their solution is almost as bad as the problem. The statements: "BNP are a bunch of racists" and "Radical Islam is a danger to civilized society" are not mutually exclusive.

Radical Islam is a danger as you have amply documented over the years that I've been reading you. If you made the statement "Radical Islam is a danger" to the BNP they would agree with it but that doesn't make them any less a bunch of racist fascists. That's not a statement of support for the BNP. that's a simple fact. I was simply illustrating the "anti-anti" example.

I respectfully request that you retract your suggestion that I support the BNP or expressed support for them.

508 rain of lead  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:05:38pm

re: #497 3 wood

shudder,shudder,shudder

509 cronus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:05:56pm

If what ABC's Jake Tapper is reporting is to be believed it looks like WH and Jones MAY be pivoting to the "I didn't know what I was signing" line.

510 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:06:00pm

re: #459 jcm

Here's the pathetic bit:

In March 2002, the sixteen remaining members formally decided to disband STORM as an organization.

We all still believed that revolutionary cadre organizations are necessary for the development of a viable revolutionary movement in this country. But we concluded that STORM could no longer be effective building a revolutionary movement. The baggage of our conflicts within the movement and our lack of a sufficient strategy were too heavy to carry.


Aww.

511 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:06:11pm

re: #476 Charles

I'm getting some really extreme hate mail tonight. Apparently I'm a Hugo Chavez supporter now, which comes as quite a surprise.

* * * *
Sorry to hear that. It's Hillary Clinton who met with Hugo Chavez' Honduran clone (deposed leftist Zelaya) today, here in Washington.

512 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:06:21pm

re: #457 FrogMarch

It takes a lot to bite off a digit. Punching is a totally different ball game.
If some punk leftist harassed me, I might think about defending myself.
Biting a finger off is the act of a coward.

If a stranger punches me without justification, I don't owe him the courtesy of fighting in some manly fashion. If I have the ability to deliver an effective counter punch, or karate chop, or whatever, that's well and good. But if I don't, why should I limit my (legally permissible)options with some stranger who attacks me?

513 jamgarr  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:06:32pm

re: #495 John Neverbend

"Hi, Ford," said Zaphod, "you speak to the big noise boy?"

Ford waggled his head noncommittally.

"Hotblack? I sort of spoke to him, yeah."

"What'd he say?"

"Well, not a lot really. He's ... er ..."

"Yeah?"

"He's spending a year dead for tax reasons."


And now - The Great Zarkon!

514 Fiery Red XIII  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:06:35pm

re: #499 jcm

Can't be a real lefty with a Che, and Free Mumia tee in closet!

I have a "FRY MUMIA" shirt.

Red

515 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:06:47pm

re: #509 cronus

If what ABC's Jake Tapper is reporting is to be believed it looks like WH and Jones MAY be pivoting to the "I didn't know what I was signing" line.

If it's ok for Van Jones, it's good for anyone who signs a loan agreement and can't make the payments...

516 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:06:58pm

re: #460 Killgore Trout

The Birch Society is pushing that story too.
/Just sayin'

/so what?

517 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:07:38pm

re: #480 3 wood

He is clearing $2 million a day now. In his case, dying was a very profitable career move.

* * * *
Wow!
You're one good reporter.
Bet anything the Jacksons are now against Death Taxes now, like Republicans!

518 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:07:49pm

re: #511 alegrias

* * * *
Sorry to hear that. It's Hillary Clinton who met with Hugo Chavez' Honduran clone (deposed leftist Zelaya) today, here in Washington.

Really?

Did that go under the radar?

519 zelnaga  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:08:01pm

Maybe there's another Van Jones who is a truther? If his own personal snail mail and email address were included in the petition, I'd be more inclined to believe he signed it, but I get the impression online petitions like this don't ask for anything at all.

Of course, I don't know what his personal email address is, either. That the email address he used (if he even needed one) was something like vanjones911@gmail.com that wouldn't tell you anything other than that someone - be it this particular Van Jones or not - is using vanjones911@gmail.com.

520 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:08:06pm

re: #468 Coracle

Back in the cannibal thread, someone posted the legal definition of assault in CA. It required intent to do physical harm. Battery is success at doing physical harm. Rice did assault and battery. Before that, biter did neither. Got it.

No ,assault is creating apprehension of physical harm.
It is the ordinary reasonable man standard. Would the ordinary, reasonable man have felt in danger. You can't twist century's of common law.

521 slokat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:08:21pm

Washington Times posted an update?

Is this new info?
just asking since thge post doesn't time stamp the update

A response was provided to reporters Thursday evening. In it, Mr. Jones apologized for signing the statement and said he doesn't feel that way today and never has had such thoughts, although the 911Truth group claims to have personally confirmed support from all of their signers.

522 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:08:34pm

Two email flounces so far.

"Delete my account immediately! You've become leftist! Glenn Beck is a genius!"

523 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:08:38pm

re: #510 jaunte

Here's the pathetic bit:


Aww.

Cry me a river.
Build a bridge.
And get over it.

*that to Jones not you jaunte*

16 members! Wow!

524 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:09:02pm

re: #522 Charles

Genius...ROFL.

525 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:09:03pm

re: #521 slokat

And we should believe troofers why?

526 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:09:06pm

re: #446 unrealizedviewpoint

IIRC, the brain was removed for the toxicology tests to determine cause of death. I don't know if he's being burried with it, or not. There were noises of prosecuting the Dr. who administered the drugs.

527 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:09:12pm

re: #522 Charles

Two email flounces so far.

"Delete my account immediately! You've become leftist! Glenn Beck is a genius!

Insure that they get what they wished for.

528 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:09:20pm

re: #509 cronus

If what ABC's Jake Tapper is reporting is to be believed it looks like WH and Jones MAY be pivoting to the "I didn't know what I was signing" line.

If so, he's toast.

I'm setting the over/under on Obama throwing this guy under the bus to Sunday morning.

529 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:09:28pm

re: #523 jcm

I know softball teams that have bigger cadres than that, comrade!

530 kcladderman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:09:51pm

target="_blank">#498 Sharmuta

This has nothing to do with Charles I did not say i don't believe him. I know if he said he looked for proof and did not find it then that is what happened.
But Zombie has credibility in my book also.

531 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:10:03pm

re: #476 Charles

I'm getting some really extreme hate mail tonight. Apparently I'm a Hugo Chavez supporter now, which comes as quite a surprise.

Well, you do allow him to comment on your blog.
///

532 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:10:08pm

re: #523 jcm

Cry me a river.
Build a bridge.
And get over it.

*that to Jones not you jaunte*

16 members! Wow!

The People's Front

533 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:10:13pm

re: #528 3 wood

If so, he's toast.

I'm setting the over/under on Obama throwing this guy under the bus to Sunday morning.

Do you believe Jake Tapper?

534 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:10:27pm

re: #517 alegrias

Bet anything the Jacksons are now against Death Taxes now, like Republicans!

Old Man Jackson charged the City Of Gary Indiana a $5,000 appearance fee for showing up to a tribute for his son.

535 Ben Hur  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:10:36pm

re: #521 slokat

Washington Times posted an update?

Is this new info?
just asking since thge post doesn't time stamp the update

I guess he signed it.

536 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:10:46pm

re: #520 opnion

No ,assault is creating apprehension of physical harm.
It is the ordinary reasonable man standard. Would the ordinary, reasonable man have felt in danger. You can't twist century's of common law.

I'm twisting nothing. Hopefully eschew obfuscation won't mind I repost him in full, since opnion is above following my links:

O.K. Here's California's Assault & Battery law.

California law defines assault (sometimes referred to as an "assault and battery") in section 240 of the California Penal Code. An "assault" is an unlawful attempt, coupled with a present ability, to commit a violent injury on another. Simply put, it means performing an act that is likely to result in the application of force to another.

There is no requirement that an assault must actually result in a violent or forceful act upon another, only that you (1) attempted to, and (2) had the ability to do so.

California "simple assault" is a misdemeanor and is typically charged when the accuser didn't suffer any type of significant injury as a result of the offense. A California "aggravated assault" (otherwise known as an "assault with a deadly weapon" or an ADW) will be filed if (1) you used a deadly weapon or other instrument capable of producing serious bodily injury, and/or (2) when the accuser is seriously injured.

*This article primarily focuses on the issues involved with a California "simple assault".

What is the Difference between "Assault" and "Battery"?

Although many people think that "assault and battery" is one crime, "assault" (CPC 240) and "battery" (CPC 242) are actually two different offenses. As Robert Little, one of San Bernardino's top assault defense attorneys puts it, "The easiest way to distinguish the crimes is this.an assault doesn't necessarily involve any actual physical contact -- a battery does. Put another way, an 'assault' is an 'attempted battery', and a 'battery' is a 'completed assault'".

How Do Prosecutors Prove a California "Simple Assault" Under Penal Code 240?

In order to convict you of "simple" or "misdemeanor" assault in California, the prosecuting agency must prove the following three facts (otherwise known as "elements"):


It does require, at minimum, an attempt at physical violence to constitute assault. A successful attempt (actual physical contact) is battery.

537 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:10:55pm

re: #467 3 wood

Quite frankly, whether or not this guy Van Jones is a troofer (which I doubt based only on this petition thing) is the least of my concerns about the guy. His avowed communism is all I needed to know.

he said he "discovered" communism. So did I. It was in Econ 101. Did I take a close look? Sure I did. Any internally logical economic philosophy deserves a look! And communism, in theory, had internal logic. It was when you looked at communism *in practice* that it fell apart. It was always used as a tool for maintaining the status of elites. Total government control. A total fail. So I don't mind people dabbling in communism. It's very attractive until you realize that it is totally impractical in the real world.

I tend to give people the opportunity to grow up. If I was still the little wanker I was at 21, I'd cut me own throat.

538 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:10:56pm

re: #532 Desert Dog

The People's Front

[Video]

ROFL!

539 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:11:30pm

re: #534 3 wood

Old Man Jackson charged the City Of Gary Indiana a $5,000 appearance fee for showing up to a tribute for his son.

Capitalism in action...along with bad taste, gall, and stupidity if they paid it.

540 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:11:33pm

re: #533 Walter L. Newton

Do you believe Jake Tapper?

I said "if" Walter.

But true or not, I think Obama drops him like prom dress.

541 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:11:40pm

Most right-wing blogs are coming out tonight calling Bill Rice (missing pinky man) a hero.

542 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:12:08pm

re: #236 zombie


"No matter who ultimately is to blame for these bombings..."

Gee Zombie, would it have been too difficult to have given the whole paragraph, or would that have given away that you are reading into the statement what you want?

543 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:12:28pm

You know, the last time I saw funerals this messed-up, they were for Arafat and Ayatollah Khomeini.

544 cronus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:12:33pm

re: #528 3 wood

If so, he's toast.

I'm setting the over/under on Obama throwing this guy under the bus to Sunday morning.

Political bad news is almost always dumped on Friday afternoon. I take the unders!

545 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:12:49pm

re: #537 austin_blue

he said he "discovered" communism. So did I. It was in Econ 101. Did I take a close look? Sure I did. Any internally logical economic philosophy deserves a look! And communism, in theory, had internal logic. It was when you looked at communism *in practice* that it fell apart. It was always used as a tool for maintaining the status of elites. Total government control. A total fail. So I don't mind people dabbling in communism. It's very attractive until you realize that it is totally impractical in the real world.

I tend to give people the opportunity to grow up. If I was still the little wanker I was at 21, I'd cut me own throat.

I met the hottest girls in 1972 when I worked for the McGovern campaign during the Pennsylvania primary. Was 17 and at the party on primary election night (which we lost to Humphrey), I still remember this 20 year old college girl that was hitting on me...

546 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:12:50pm

re: #486 3 wood

It seems to me that there is starting to be a team picture of Marxists in this White House.

* * * *
THey're like those Japanese soldiers who popped up out of hiding years after the end of WWII but still wanted to "fight for their Emperor" who surrendered to the US years before.

Communists themselves discredited Marxism-- which went down before the Clinton Administration took office--yet these people MISSED the history lesson.

547 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:13:01pm

Sup Haak.

548 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:13:09pm

re: #535 Ben Hur

I guess he signed it.

The Washington Times is full of hyperbole.

549 OldScouter  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:13:23pm

Just wondering how Obama will have the TOTUS set up at the High School. Will the students notice?

550 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:13:29pm

re: #484 kcladderman

No i think it is most of us put more faith in what Zombie says than the truthers or Van Jones

Let's summarise the wingnut 'logic' at work here:

1. Even though there is no evidence that Jones was a truther, and he's denied ever being one, we should still consider him suspicious and a potential liar because of his past associations.

AND:

2. Even though there's tons of evidence that truthers lie about everything and always have, we should STILL take their word over Jones'-- because THEIR past associations and conduct are totally irrelevant.

This kind of irrationality puts the D in ODS.

551 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:13:42pm

re: #526 Floral Giraffe

IIRC, the brain was removed for the toxicology tests to determine cause of death. I don't know if he's being burried with it, or not. There were noises of prosecuting the Dr. who administered the drugs.

Thanx.
The doc should get the chair /
5 yrs and loss of his med lic

552 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:13:48pm

re: #530 kcladderman

Sorry- unsubstantiated claims, with zero evidence, doesn't lend credibility- it takes from it.

553 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:13:57pm

Chinese flag at the White House?

OK, what's this?

[Link: big5.fmprc.gov.cn...]

554 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:14:09pm

re: #506 Coracle

How about you look at the first discussion here, instead.

Then I would suggest that you research the Ordinary Reasonable Man Standard. If a reasonable person felt at risk, that is assault.
The mental state of the perp is not governing.

555 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:14:30pm

re: #537 austin_blue

he said he "discovered" communism. So did I. It was in Econ 101. Did I take a close look? Sure I did. Any internally logical economic philosophy deserves a look! And communism, in theory, had internal logic. It was when you looked at communism *in practice* that it fell apart. It was always used as a tool for maintaining the status of elites. Total government control. A total fail. So I don't mind people dabbling in communism. It's very attractive until you realize that it is totally impractical in the real world.

I tend to give people the opportunity to grow up. If I was still the little wanker I was at 21, I'd cut me own throat.

The key here is Mr. Jones apparently not only looked at it, he embraced it and thought it was a great idea.

556 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:14:44pm

Oops! wrong note.

557 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:14:50pm

re: #541 Charles

Most right-wing blogs are coming out tonight calling Bill Rice (missing pinky man) a hero.

Bad judgment is quite the fashion lately.

558 J.S.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:14:59pm

re: #535 Ben Hur


I haven't seen anything (in any of the news articles I've read) in which van Jones denies having signed the petition -- he apologizes and says he never really shared such views, etc. -- but I haven't found an outright denial (you know, something such as: "I did not sign such a petition")...(btw, also the petition was allegedly linking someone in the Bush administration with some high-ranking Pakistani who forwarded monies to Atta...the White House knew about it, but wanted to have a pretext to go to war, so nothing was said, etc., etc.)

559 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:15:23pm

Chinese flag at White House...

[Link: georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov...]

560 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:15:26pm

Now that he admits signing it. I take back my prediction of a resignation for next Thursday morning. Could be earlier. Much earlier.

561 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:15:31pm

re: #541 Charles

Most right-wing blogs are coming out tonight calling Bill Rice (missing pinky man) a hero.

You mean he wasn't trying to clear that protesters airway with his pinky?
///

562 The False God  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:15:31pm

re: #500 austin_blue

My basic position is that people are misinterpreting his comment, which apparently also follows for you misinterpreting my own comment.

Bad people are sometimes factually right about things. That doesn't mean they're good people, just that in their corrupt, destructive way, they manage to say that "The Sun is bright", and be right. From the response he gave on the subject, it would seem that he probably DID sign that thing. Whether he agreed with it or not is another story. What it means is, too. If he didn't sign it, he would've outright said that he didn't sign it. That the Truthers, as big of asshats as they are, may be right about the physical act of him signing it is not absolutely inconceivable.

I interpret his post as being that, just because a group is insane, doesn't mean that everything they put out is necessarily a lie just because of that fact. Find out the background on it, the truth, and then dismiss it if it's false. Warning flags are popping up and should be looked at. That's it.

563 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:15:44pm

re: #553 Gus 802

Chinese flag at the White House?

OK, what's this?

[Link: big5.fmprc.gov.cn...]

It's tradition to fly the flag of visiting foreign dignitaries. I recall seeing the Canadian flag during a visit to the Bush WH.

564 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:15:53pm

re: #554 opnion

Then I would suggest that you research the Ordinary Reasonable Man Standard. If a reasonable person felt at risk, that is assault.
The mental state of the perp is not governing.

I'm reminded of the "World According To Garp".. when Robin Williams drives his car into the garage without any headlights and his wife is in the car that he rear ends that's in the garage and she's giving oral sex to her boyfriend and bites his member off when the car gets hit...

565 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:15:54pm

re: #554 opnion

Then I would suggest that you research the Ordinary Reasonable Man Standard. If a reasonable person felt at risk, that is assault.
The mental state of the perp is not governing.

Does the Ordinary Reasonable Man Standard trump the CA legal code? I honestly don't know the answer to that.

566 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:15:55pm

re: #554 opnion

Then I would suggest that you research the Ordinary Reasonable Man Standard. If a reasonable person felt at risk, that is assault.
The mental state of the perp is not governing.

There is no such standard in California law.

It's just absolutely amazing to me that anyone could defend physical violence in response to a verbal altercation.

567 alegrias  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:16:11pm

re: #518 Ben Hur

Really?

Did that go under the radar?

* * * *
Hillary's meeting with Hugo Chavez clone Honduran Zelaya today in WASHINGTON, DC, was scrolling on Fox News scroll bar tonight. Only reference I've seen today.

Anyone else hear about this? Obama Administration meeting with Chavez' buddy AND cutting of US Aid $200 million to the country day.

568 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:16:22pm

re: #563 Sharmuta

It's tradition to fly the flag of visiting foreign dignitaries. I recall seeing the Canadian flag during a visit to the Bush WH.

Yeah. Was just wondering if this was going to be the next controversy.

569 slokat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:16:38pm

re: #525 Sharmuta

You are completely off base, I'm asking if this is a new statement from the WH and/or Jones as reported by the Washington Times.

Or if it is old news...

Nothing to do with believing 9/11 truthers.

If this is a new statement, it said "yes I signed but I didn't mean/don't believe what the petition purported".

570 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:16:40pm

re: #565 Coracle

Does the Ordinary Reasonable Man Standard trump the CA legal code? I honestly don't know the answer to that.

No, it doesn't. There is no such standard.

571 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:16:43pm

If the recession is over, why is no one is hiring?
Another 233,000 jobs are lost in August, economists indicate

If the recession really is over, someone forgot to send the memo to the people in the personnel department ... because no one is hiring.

U.S. nonfarm payrolls likely shrank by 233,000 in August, economists surveyed by MarketWatch said, ahead of Friday's jobs report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. See Economic Calendar.

The report will be released at 8:30 a.m. Eastern.

The unemployment rate is expected to tick higher to 9.5% in August from 9.4% in July, according to the survey.

If the declines hold up, August would be the 20th consecutive month of job losses -- the longest losing streak since the Depression of the 1930s. If the forecasts are right, nearly 7 million jobs will have been lost since the recession began in December 2007.

572 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:17:13pm

re: #560 unrealizedviewpoint

Now that he admits signing it. I take back my prediction of a resignation for next Thursday morning. Could be earlier. Much earlier.

Can't be true.

573 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:17:19pm

zombie is credibility. To rely on zombie in no way diminishes another.

574 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:17:21pm

re: #566 Charles

There is no such standard in California law.

It's just absolutely amazing to me that anyone could defend physical violence in response to a verbal altercation.

Instinctive reaction when food is put in one's mouth...

575 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:17:26pm

re: #568 Gus 802

Yeah. Was just wondering if this was going to be the next controversy.

Damn Canadians! They should buy more Treasury Bonds and maybe we would start kissing their butts more, eh?

576 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:17:28pm

re: #542 freetoken

Gee Zombie, would it have been too difficult to have given the whole paragraph, or would that have given away that you are reading into the statement what you want?

Exactly. There's a whole lot of that going around. Frankly I'm shocked to see so much of that here on a blog which is famous for being anti-idiotarian.

577 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:17:39pm

Correction: there is such a standard, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with this case.

578 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:17:41pm
579 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:17:45pm

re: #559 Gus 802

Chinese flag at White House...

[Link: georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov...]

Hasn't it been the practice for State Visits at the WH for he national flag of the visiting head of state to be flown?

I believe so. Therefore non-issue.

580 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:17:48pm

re: #563 Sharmuta

It's tradition to fly the flag of visiting foreign dignitaries. I recall seeing the Canadian flag during a visit to the Bush WH.

Apparently it is. Look here:

[Link: blogsearch.google.com...]

581 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:18:05pm

re: #536 Coracle


What part of "Ability" don't you get? Of course if someone in a wheel chair invaded your space you wold conclude that the ability for assault is not there.
Read the statute again.

582 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:18:12pm

re: #563 Sharmuta

It's tradition to fly the flag of visiting foreign dignitaries.

/except this has absolutely nothing to do with visiting foreign dignitaries

583 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:18:15pm

re: #545 DrNaughty

I met the hottest girls in 1972 when I worked for the McGovern campaign during the Pennsylvania primary. Was 17 and at the party on primary election night (which we lost to Humphrey), I still remember this 20 year old college girl that was hitting on me...

You must have been one hot mensch!

584 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:18:17pm

re: #571 3 wood

Is it true the employment measurements are a trailing indicator wrt recessions?

585 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:18:34pm

re: #579 jcm

Hasn't it been the practice for State Visits at the WH for he national flag of the visiting head of state to be flown?

I believe so. Therefore non-issue.

Did Clinton have the PLO flag raised when Arafat visited the White House in 1993?

586 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:18:48pm

re: #572 Walter L. Newton

Can't be true.

UPDATE: A response was provided to reporters Thursday evening. In it, Mr. Jones apologized for signing the statement and said he doesn't feel that way today and never has had such thoughts, although the 911Truth group claims to have personally confirmed support from all of their signers.

587 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:18:53pm

re: #548 Walter L. Newton

The Washington Times is full of hyperbole.

So is the New York Times (though that does not excuse the WaTimes's reporting when its bad).

588 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:18:55pm

re: #571 3 wood

If the recession is over, why is no one is hiring?
Another 233,000 jobs are lost in August, economists indicate

It's not over in Arizona...my 2nd Quarter was the worst one I have ever had and I have been going since 1985.

589 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:19:05pm

re: #570 Charles

No, it doesn't. There is no such standard.

I was going to say that sounds like a tort law standard in any event, not a criminal law standard.

590 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:19:06pm

re: #457 FrogMarch

It takes a lot to bite off a digit. Punching is a totally different ball game.
If some punk leftist harassed me, I might think about defending myself.
Biting a finger off is the act of a coward.

A very determined coward.

591 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:20:02pm

re: #516 Killian Bundy

/so what?


Chicken butt. Wanna know why?

592 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:20:10pm

re: #579 jcm

Hasn't it been the practice for State Visits at the WH for he national flag of the visiting head of state to be flown?

I believe so. Therefore non-issue.

Yes, non-issue.

593 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:20:17pm

re: #542 freetoken

Gee Zombie, would it have been too difficult to have given the whole paragraph, or would that have given away that you are reading into the statement what you want?

It wasn't even a comment made by Van Jones!

594 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:20:19pm

re: #586 unrealizedviewpoint

UPDATE: A response was provided to reporters Thursday evening. In it, Mr. Jones apologized for signing the statement and said he doesn't feel that way today and never has had such thoughts, although the 911Truth group claims to have personally confirmed support from all of their signers.

You trust that report at the Washington Times?

595 Alberta Oil Peon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:20:33pm

re: #296 karmic_inquisitor

I have an idea -

We offer $4,500 to Obama for every inefficient Czar that he trades in for a more efficient one.

Cash for Bootlickers.

But we have to load the duds up with sodium silicate and rev the snot out of them until they seize up.

/

596 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:20:55pm

re: #590 haakondahl

A very determined coward.

If you punch me in the face, I guarantee I will respond in a way you won't like.

597 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:20:56pm

re: #594 Walter L. Newton

You trust that report at the Washington Times?

And verified by troofers.

598 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:21:03pm

re: #587 Dark_Falcon

So is the New York Times (though that does not excuse the WaTimes's reporting when its bad).

Lies, lies... it's all lies... who do you believe?

599 Pingemi  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:21:10pm

The tweet from Tapper says this:

a source says Jones did not carefully review the language in the petition before agreeing to add his name.

Personally I never sign anything I don't read, not even if it is pages long.

And I'll grant that this is an unsourced tweet at this point what it turns into by tomorrow or Saturday will be the deciding factor.

600 MAVCON  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:21:19pm

re: #588 Desert Dog
Me too from Tempe

601 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:21:28pm

re: #583 austin_blue

You must have been one hot mensch!

I wish I knew what happened to her. Never saw her again after that night... (sighs)

602 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:21:32pm

re: #457 FrogMarch

It takes a lot to bite off a digit. Punching is a totally different ball game.
If some punk leftist harassed me, I might think about defending myself.
Biting a finger off is the act of a coward.

I guess you keep missing the part where the finger got into the mouth because it was in the process of punching said mouth. The biting may not have been intentional as it was reactionary, or ever worse, the jaw slamming shut as a result of being struck.

This guy will has a piece of missing finger to remind him not to strike a person with such a limp-fisted punch.

603 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:21:34pm

re: #578 TheMatrix31

Because hope and change is awesome.

And here I thought we were supposed to level out at 8% unemployment, cause the Messiah told me so...

604 VioletTiger  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:22:04pm

re: #586 unrealizedviewpoint
I could not find the article at the link.

605 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:22:08pm

re: #573 unrealizedviewpoint

zombie is credibility. To rely on zombie in no way diminishes another.

Sharm, I see you downdinged this.
Is it not interesting that zombie was 100% correct?

606 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:22:13pm

re: #565 Coracle

Does the Ordinary Reasonable Man Standard trump the CA legal code? I honestly don't know the answer to that.


That standard is huge in common law & the statute does not violate it.
It says that the perp must have the 'Ability". Clearly the perp had the ability to commit the battery.
I don't know how else to explain this to you.

607 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:22:16pm

re: #471 Killgore Trout

I eat you pinkies! I eat them up!
[Link: www.google.com...]

First the school speech now this? It's the chinese cultural revolution all over again, I tells ya!/

608 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:22:20pm

re: #577 Charles

Correction: there is such a standard, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with this case.

Speaking from WA stand point, I don't know about CA.

In a situation where someone, the biter, was confrontational and "in my face", I could justify a shove to back him up. I could not justify a closed fist.

Other jurisdiction in the same case would require me to back up first and try to disengage even before a shove.

Either way a closed fist as a response to some one "in my face" isn't "reasonable."

609 Pianobuff  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:22:23pm

re: #577 Charles

Correction: there is such a standard, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with this case.

I did watch the tape finally, and Bill the old dude pretty much said he landed the first shot/punched him.

What I'm wondering (and this is more just a technical question because it doesn't seem to apply in this case from what we know so far) is if, in CA, person #1 said to person #2 "I'm going to beat your face to a pulp in 3 seconds" and person #2 pre-emptively strikes person 1, are person #2's actions defensible.

Again, I'm not hearing that this is the case with Bill the old dude, but I'm just curious all the same.

610 Irish Rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:22:34pm

re: #476 Charles

I'm getting some really extreme hate mail tonight. Apparently I'm a Hugo Chavez supporter now, which comes as quite a surprise.

Where the hell is that coming from?

611 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:22:48pm

re: #562 The False God

My basic position is that people are misinterpreting his comment, which apparently also follows for you misinterpreting my own comment.

Bad people are sometimes factually right about things. That doesn't mean they're good people, just that in their corrupt, destructive way, they manage to say that "The Sun is bright", and be right. From the response he gave on the subject, it would seem that he probably DID sign that thing. Whether he agreed with it or not is another story. What it means is, too. If he didn't sign it, he would've outright said that he didn't sign it. That the Truthers, as big of asshats as they are, may be right about the physical act of him signing it is not absolutely inconceivable.

I interpret his post as being that, just because a group is insane, doesn't mean that everything they put out is necessarily a lie just because of that fact. Find out the background on it, the truth, and then dismiss it if it's false. Warning flags are popping up and should be looked at. That's it.

No, but directly associating yourself with it is *stooopid*.

It puts you into the radical position of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Without really investigating your "friend".

Jones says he had nothing to do with these people. There is no evidence available on the Web this is true. This is really a QED situation. Drop it.

612 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:22:58pm

re: #586 unrealizedviewpoint

A response was provided to reporters Thursday evening. In it, Mr. Jones apologized for signing the statement and said he doesn't feel that way today and never has had such thoughts, although the 911Truth group claims to have personally confirmed support from all of their signers.

"In recent days some in the news media have reported on past statements I made before I joined the administration – some of which were made years ago," Mr. Jones said. "If I have offended anyone with statements I made in the past, I apologize. As for the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever.

They have yet to produce a quote saying that he signed the statement. If he did, I'll be more than happy to shit all over him.

613 jcm  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:23:03pm

re: #592 Gus 802

Yes, non-issue.

I have issues with the ChiComs, but that's another thing...

614 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:23:10pm

re: #607 Jimmah

First the school speech now this? It's the chinese cultural revolution all over again, I tells ya!/

Hey, it was the LEFT PINKY...that is a signal...

615 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:23:12pm

re: #584 freetoken

Is it true the employment measurements are a trailing indicator wrt recessions?

Yes. It almost every recession since the '20's, employment has lagged well-behind a return to positive growth in the economy. In fact, during the depression, the economy actually grew at a near normal pace in three different quarters, but employment never improved in any measurable way as a result of that economic growth. What's even more disturbing, is that the stock market enjoyed rallies during the GD that still rank as some of the strongest rallies in the history of the market.

If people were looking at the favorable market performance the last several months as a sign of a recovering economy, they may be positioning themselves for powerful disappointment.

616 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:23:20pm

re: #594 Walter L. Newton

You trust that report at the Washington Times?

Are we now totally discounting the WT here? Wow!

617 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:23:22pm

re: #609 Pianobuff

I did watch the tape finally, and Bill the old dude pretty much said he landed the first shot/punched him.

He admitted very clearly that he punched the guy TWICE, without any physical provocation.

618 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:23:28pm

re: #577 Charles

Correction: there is such a standard, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with this case.

Why?

619 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:23:46pm

re: #603 3 wood

And here I thought we were supposed to level out at 8% unemployment, cause the Messiah told me so...

You mean he was wrong/lied? Damn. I'm shocked.

620 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:24:12pm

re: #581 opnion

What part of "Ability" don't you get? Of course if someone in a wheel chair invaded your space you wold conclude that the ability for assault is not there.
Read the statute again.

What part of "Attempt" don't you get? I know it doesn't happen often, but you should be ready to recognize and admit when you're mistaken about events.

.

621 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:24:23pm

re: #605 unrealizedviewpoint

Sharm, I see you downdinged this.
Is it not interesting that zombie was 100% correct?

Don't matter to some people.

622 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:24:29pm

re: #612 Killgore Trout

They have yet to produce a quote saying that he signed the statement. If he did, I'll be more than happy to shit all over him.

Will you accept his resignation as the signal to squat?

623 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:24:41pm

re: #567 alegrias

* * * *
Hillary's meeting with Hugo Chavez clone Honduran Zelaya today in WASHINGTON, DC, was scrolling on Fox News scroll bar tonight. Only reference I've seen today.

Anyone else hear about this? Obama Administration meeting with Chavez' buddy AND cutting of US Aid $200 million to the country day.

$30 million.

624 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:24:49pm

re: #598 Walter L. Newton

Lies, lies... it's all lies... who do you believe?

They got in a fight. Throw 'em both in the clink for 60 days to teach them to govern their passions.

625 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:24:53pm

re: #605 unrealizedviewpoint

People who get picked up by alex jones don't have credibility in my book.

626 Irish Rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:24:58pm

I can't believe we're still discussing who was at fault in the pinkie incident.

627 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:25:06pm

re: #617 Charles

He admitted very clearly that he punched the guy TWICE, without any physical provocation.

He committed a crime and admitted it. So did the guy that incited the violence and bit off his finger. Sounds like they should both be brought up on charges. The yelling and screaming is bad enough, punching and biting each other is even worse.

628 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:25:20pm

re: #616 unrealizedviewpoint

Are we now totally discounting the WT here? Wow!

Ok, is no one is catching the sarcasm here?

629 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:25:20pm

re: #596 Charles

If you punch me in the face, I guarantee I will respond in a way you won't like.

Last guy who tried that on me woke up in the ambulance on his way to the hospital.

630 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:25:30pm

re: #593 Sharmuta

It wasn't even a comment made by Van Jones!

Yes, but even more than that, it was a polite way to address an awkward situation. STORM was trying to portray themselves as supporting Arab-Americans against bigotry that arose immediately after 9/11. Yet it is true that the terrorists were Arabs, most from KSA. So instead of saying "Even though the terrorists were Arabs..." the woman said "No matter..."

It is a common way of using English.

631 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:25:38pm

re: #608 jcm

Speaking from WA stand point, I don't know about CA.

In a situation where someone, the biter, was confrontational and "in my face", I could justify a shove to back him up. I could not justify a closed fist.

Other jurisdiction in the same case would require me to back up first and try to disengage even before a shove.

Either way a closed fist as a response to some one "in my face" isn't "reasonable."

We are talking about whether an ordinary reasonable man would feel threatened, not whether the resopse was appropriate.

632 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:25:54pm

re: #629 3 wood

Last guy who tried that on me woke up in the ambulance on his way to the hospital.


How many fingers did he have?

633 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:25:58pm

re: #596 Charles

If you punch me in the face, I guarantee I will respond in a way you won't like.

Fortunately I have no intent to do so. Spares us that little unpleasantness.

Me, I'm a grappler. I don't start fistfights--I'll put up with a lot before getting physical. When somebody throws a punch or a kick, however, I'll try to grab them and use their own weight against them. I'm not good at fistfighting, and I am actually pretty good at wrapping a guy up and slamming him bodily against something. But it's really a defensive fighting style, which suits me fine.

I cannot fathom biting a person's finger off. That is a whole other world of animalistic rage.

634 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:26:04pm

re: #626 Irish Rose

I can't believe we're still discussing who was at fault in the pinkie incident.

I know, I mean...I'm not one to point fingers, but..

635 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:26:06pm

re: #628 Walter L. Newton

Ok, is no one is catching the sarcasm here?

No, I missed it. But, I'm weary from a long and boring shift at work.

636 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:26:09pm

re: #604 VioletTiger

I could not find the article at the link.

scroll.

637 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:26:10pm

re: #605 unrealizedviewpoint

Sharm, I see you downdinged this.
Is it not interesting that zombie was 100% correct?

I don't agree. Zombie was not correct in this one. There is absolutely no evidence that Van Jones is a 9/11 Truther, apart from his name being listed on a Truther website.

None.

638 Pianobuff  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:26:16pm

re: #617 Charles

He admitted very clearly that he punched the guy TWICE, without any physical provocation.

I got that and that's not in dispute. My question is more about CA law in general. Being that I'm a resident I'm curious. If someone told me that we going to kick my ass and I struck first, would that be defensible? More of a practical question (not that I plan on getting into any fights).

639 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:26:23pm

re: #512 Flyers1974

Correct. There is no such thing as a fair fight.

640 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:26:58pm

re: #503 noshariaincanadacrackp

uh oh, I see Charles is downdinging support for Zombie's line of reasoning. Beware.


That 'line of reasoning' doesn't deserve the name of 'reason'. It's crackpot and it's been thoroughly shredded here, if I do say so myself.

641 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:27:00pm

In other news ...

The Clinton Peace and Hope and Change mission to North Korea is paying big dividends -

[Link: www.chinadaily.com.cn...]

SEOUL: The Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) said on Friday that it was in the final stage of enriching uranium, a process that would give it a second path to making a nuclear weapon.

After a series of conciliatory gestures by the DPRK over the past month, the announcement raises the stakes in efforts by the international community to convince the state to give up its nuclear weapons programme.

"Experimental uranium enrichment has successfully been conducted to enter into completion phase," the KCNA news agency quoted DPRK's United Nations delegation as saying in a letter to the head of the UN Security Council (UNSC).

The DPRK has already tested two plutonium-based nuclear devices, the one in May triggering tightened international sanctions.

The Unites States has long suspected that the DPRK has a secret programme to enrich uranium for weapons. Experts have said it has not developed anything near a full scale enrichment programme.

The DPRK said its latest moves were in response to tighter sanctions.

So here is a question for resident physician/philosophers - if your wrists are slit and your pinky is cut off, will your fist unclench?

642 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:27:08pm

re: #612 Killgore Trout

They have yet to produce a quote saying that he signed the statement. If he did, I'll be more than happy to shit all over him.

What's this, chopped liver...

"Mr. Jones apologized for signing the statement and said he doesn't feel that way today and never has had such thoughts, although the 911Truth group claims to have personally confirmed support from all of their signers."

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

643 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:27:16pm

re: #622 unrealizedviewpoint

Will you accept his resignation as the signal to squat?

He's what, a diversity czar? Why the fuck would I care about a diversity czar and why would I be surprised if he's a leftist douchebag?

644 Pingemi  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:27:19pm

Let me thank "The False God" for defending me and understanding my point.

I would like to point "Austin_Blue" to my comment #507 and repeat the warning about anti-anti ism.

I repeat my request for a retraction of the suggestion that I either support the BNP or expressed support for them.

645 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:27:25pm

re: #620 Coracle

What part of "Attempt" don't you get? I know it doesn't happen often, but you should be ready to recognize and admit when you're mistaken about events.

.

You quoted a statute & misinerpreted it. Now you go to facts, which are in dispute.

646 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:27:26pm

re: #602 Slumbering Behemoth

I guess you keep missing the part where the finger got into the mouth because it was in the process of punching said mouth. The biting may not have been intentional as it was reactionary, or ever worse, the jaw slamming shut as a result of being struck.

This guy will has a piece of missing finger to remind him not to strike a person with such a limp-fisted punch.

Nope. Not accidental, and there is not way that a hand with one finger in the mouth also slams that jaw shut with force enough to sever a finger.

647 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:27:41pm

re: #625 Sharmuta

People who get picked up by alex jones don't have credibility in my book.

I actually don't know what you're talking about.

648 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:27:52pm

re: #643 Killgore Trout

He's what, a diversity czar? Why the fuck would I care about a diversity czar and why would I be surprised if he's a leftist douchebag?

We're supposed to care about the czars- glenn back says to.

649 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:28:02pm

re: #594 Walter L. Newton

You trust that report at the Washington Times?

It's just not the Washington Times reporting this. Jake Tapper's (ABCnews.com/Political Punch) blog has it as well.

650 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:28:18pm

re: #639 Slumbering Behemoth

Correct. There is no such thing as a fair fight.

Which is what we were criticized for back during Desert Storm. Which meant that we couldn't take out the RG and ended active combat a few days earlier than we should have...

651 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:28:29pm

re: #643 Killgore Trout

He's what, a diversity czar? Why the fuck would I care about a diversity czar and why would I be surprised if he's a leftist douchebag?

Green Czar Killgore, c'mon, catch up. Good Evening!

652 Alberta Oil Peon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:28:59pm

re: #315 avanti

Yes, and the statement did not challenge that, it just said that attacking minorities that happened to be Arab without proof they were in any way responsible is wrong.

And, if you will recollect, there was practically zero in the way of backlash against actual Arab-Americans in the days following 9/11. Practically zero. I seem to remember some poor Sikh cab driver who was beaten to death by some yo-yo who thought he was a Muslim, but widespread attacks against Muslims simply never happened, despite the best efforts of Jones and his ilk to find evidence to the contrary.

653 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:29:11pm

re: #649 JarHeadLifer

It's just not the Washington Times reporting this. Jake Tapper's (ABCnews.com/Political Punch) blog has it as well.

I mention this again, evidently some are not catching my sarcasm.

654 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:29:20pm

The STORM summation document (published in 2004) doesn't mention any Truther ideas. Communist, revolutionary ideas, yes. Troofer, no.
Why would they be covering up five years in advance of possible future czardom?

655 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:29:22pm

re: #648 Sharmuta

We're supposed to care about the czars- glenn back says to.

Well, if we're not supposed to care about the czars, then why do we care about anyone from Obama's past?

656 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:29:23pm

re: #651 unrealizedviewpoint

Green Czar Killgore, c'mon, catch up. Good Evening!


Huh. I still can't get worked up over this.

657 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:29:28pm

re: #589 Flyers1974

I was going to say that sounds like a tort law standard in any event, not a criminal law standard.

The standard applies to both.

658 snowcrash  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:29:30pm

Punching is anger, biting is rage. He bit through skin, tendon and bone. He had blood in his mouth and severed a body park. He is an animal.

659 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:29:49pm

re: #652 Alberta Oil Peon

And, if you will recollect, there was practically zero in the way of backlash against actual Arab-Americans in the days following 9/11. Practically zero. I seem to remember some poor Sikh cab driver who was beaten to death by some yo-yo who thought he was a Muslim, but widespread attacks against Muslims simply never happened, despite the best efforts of Jones and his ilk to find evidence to the contrary.

And if you will recollect, George W. Bush made exactly the same kind of statements after 9/11.

660 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:29:50pm

re: #658 snowcrash

Punching is anger, biting is rage. He bit through skin, tendon and bone. He had blood in his mouth and severed a body park. He is an animal.

Jaws

661 slokat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:29:57pm

re: #651 unrealizedviewpoint

Green Czar Killgore, c'mon, catch up. Good Evening!

Lime Green Czar?
The seventies are truly being forced upon us again...

662 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:30:11pm

re: #648 Sharmuta

We're supposed to care about the czars- glenn back says to.

Sharm, just cause nutty Beck speaks of it, doesn't mean it ain't so.
Beck probably believes the sun will rise tomorrow too. Do you not believe that?

663 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:30:13pm

It's a mistake to punch a dog in the mouth, too.

664 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:30:31pm

re: #550 iceweasel

1. Even though there is no evidence that Jones was a truther, and he's denied ever being one, we should still consider him suspicious and a potential liar because of his past associations.

I can go for that. His organization did issue a statement on November 1st 2001:

"Anti-Arab hostility is already reaching a fever pitch as pundits and common people alike rush to judgment that an Arab group is responsible for this tragedy," said Van Jones, national executive director of the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights. "We fear that an atmosphere is being created that will result in official and street violence against Arab men, women and children."

A rush to judgment? Who on earth did he think perpetrated it? The Free Tibet movement? We had evidence the night of the attack that bin-Laden's group was responsible and here Van Jones is two months later saying there is a rush to judgment?

Sounds kind of squirrely to me.

665 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:30:32pm

re: #645 opnion

You quoted a statute & misinerpreted it. Now you go to facts, which are in dispute.

Both the statute and the facts - including is own admission - support Rice being guilty of assault and battery before the biter was guilty of anything. It's pretty simple.

666 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:30:44pm

re: #656 Killgore Trout

Huh. I still can't get worked up over this.

You know what's opposite of green on the color wheel? Red! Red for the color of the flag of the Red Chinese Communists. Now, tell me, have you ever seen Van Jones drinking any water?

//

667 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:30:45pm

re: #541 Charles

Most right-wing blogs are coming out tonight calling Bill Rice (missing pinky man) a hero.

Maybe they'll bite their pinkies off in solidarity. Morons.

668 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:30:47pm

re: #641 karmic_inquisitor

In other news ...

The Clinton Peace and Hope and Change mission to North Korea is paying big dividends -

[Link: www.chinadaily.com.cn...]

So here is a question for resident physician/philosophers - if your wrists are slit and your pinky is cut off, will your fist unclench?

Only if you renounce the blood lost.

669 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:30:59pm

re: #661 slokat

Lime Green Czar?
The seventies are truly being forced upon us again...

That would be avocado green.

670 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:31:03pm

re: #584 freetoken

Is it true the employment measurements are a trailing indicator wrt recessions?

Yes, to the tune af about a quarter.

For example, even though I got official notice of my job being eliminated this past Monday, I won't show up in the stat's for a couple of months cause of the severance package I'm getting.

But I'm also seeing no visible signs of GDP growing too, so I think things ar stil contracting.

Even with the time lag, Obama has been in office long enough to wear this now.

671 The False God  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:31:05pm

re: #611 austin_blue

Yes, directly associating oneself with the BNP would be stupid. But nobody here has done that. Certainly not me, and nothing said by the one Charles accused of somehow "supporting" the BNP, from what I can read.

The fact that the Truthers may be telling the truth that he signed the statement, for whatever reason, doesn't make me or anyone else a Truther. When you stop making such an absurd logical leap, things will be less muddy.

Jones says he had nothing to do with these people. There is no evidence available on the Web this is true.

He didn't say the magic words: "I did not sign that petition." That would've immediately dispelled every question, unless he was proven to have lied. As it is right now, he's either making himself look shady for no reason or he did sign it, and he's trying to patch up everything because he IS a former Truther, which isn't necessarily true, or he signs onto anything that gets put in front of him, which is more likely and makes him look like an idiot.

672 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:31:30pm

re: #653 Walter L. Newton

I mention this again, evidently some are not catching my sarcasm.

My apologies. I have to adjust my monitor's sarcasm filter. It's what I get for visting HuffPo several times this week.

673 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:31:35pm

OK, I get it. Someone who's punched twice in the face by a nut who believes health care reform is a plot to take away our precious freedoms has no right to do anything in self defense.

He's an animal. He should have just taken the punches and gone home.

674 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:31:50pm

re: #649 JarHeadLifer

It's just not the Washington Times reporting this. Jake Tapper's (ABCnews.com/Political Punch) blog has it as well.

Is the Political Punch followed by the Bi-Partisan Bite?

675 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:31:54pm

re: #559 Gus 802

Chinese flag at White House...

[Link: georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov...]

That's not the same as hoisting the flag on the south lawn.

676 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:31:54pm

re: #633 haakondahl

Fortunately I have no intent to do so. Spares us that little unpleasantness.

Me, I'm a grappler. I don't start fistfights--I'll put up with a lot before getting physical. When somebody throws a punch or a kick, however, I'll try to grab them and use their own weight against them. I'm not good at fistfighting, and I am actually pretty good at wrapping a guy up and slamming him bodily against something. But it's really a defensive fighting style, which suits me fine.

I cannot fathom biting a person's finger off. That is a whole other world of animalistic rage.

Disproportionate response. Bet a jury will see it that way in a civil case.
Add to that , the biter provoked the confrontation.

677 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:32:01pm

re: #654 jaunte

Good point.

I'm afraid the Beck-ization of many people have led them to accept unsubstantiated claims as truth, and half-assed analyses as some sort of brilliance.

678 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:32:09pm

re: #662 unrealizedviewpoint

The man thinks Isaiah 2:4 is communist propaganda. If he said the sun was rising tomorrow- I would double check that.

679 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:32:15pm

re: #646 haakondahl

Nope. Not accidental, and there is not way that a hand with one finger in the mouth also slams that jaw shut with force enough to sever a finger.

Alternatively, he may have grabbed the victim by the face while he punched him with the other fist - something I've seen first hand - the attacker severed his own finger.

680 slokat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:32:29pm

re: #669 CyanSnowHawk

That would be avocado green.

Was thinking leisure suits, not appliances...

681 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:32:32pm

Here's the Hugo Chavez love connection, Charles:

"Conservatives were already clamoring for Jones head - especially after Fox News host Glenn Beck devoted Monday and Tuesday segments of his nightly broadcast portraying Jones as a radical linked in some way, shape or form to the worldviews of Hugo Chavez, Jeremiah Wright, and, of course, Barack Obama.

682 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:32:37pm

re: #676 opnion

The puncher said he doesn't want to sue the biter.

683 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:32:57pm

re: #680 slokat

Was thinking leisure suits, not appliances...

I'd like a chance with Marsha Brady...

684 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:32:59pm

re: #643 Killgore Trout

He's what, a diversity czar? Why the fuck would I care about a diversity czar and why would I be surprised if he's a leftist douchebag?

Just FYI Diversity Czar is Mark Lloyd.
He's on tomorrows line up for attack.
/

685 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:33:03pm

re: #632 Coracle

How many fingers did he have?

I did not have time to count, he pulled a pistol on me andI had to react real fast.

He did leave most of his teeth behind on the sidewalk though.

686 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:33:04pm

The European Central Bank has basically declared their recession over. They are in recovery.

[Link: www.theaustralian.news.com.au...]

Wouldn't it be great to live in one of those capitalist countries where politicians resist using recessions to institute massive spending programs that only prolong the pain?

687 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:33:15pm

re: #682 jaunte

The puncher said he doesn't want to sue the biter.

Because he know he was the attacker.

688 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:33:17pm

re: #677 freetoken

Good point.

I'm afraid the Beck-ization of many people have led them to accept unsubstantiated claims as truth, and half-assed analyses as some sort of brilliance.

And don't forget the hyperbole- they really love overblown hyperbole. Like eugenics is coming!1! Eat it up with spoons.

689 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:33:26pm

re: #682 jaunte

The puncher said he doesn't want to sue the biter.

That's probably smart on his part, because he would lose. He was the aggressor.

690 neocon hippie  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:33:34pm

I trust Zombie 100% on this one.

691 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:33:39pm

re: #670 3 wood

Yes, to the tune af about a quarter.

For example, even though I got official notice of my job being eliminated this past Monday, I won't show up in the stat's for a couple of months cause of the severance package I'm getting.

But I'm also seeing no visible signs of GDP growing too, so I think things ar stil contracting.

Even with the time lag, Obama has been in office long enough to wear this now.

No, it's still Bush's fault. Gosh, how could you be so naive?!

/

692 TMF  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:34:07pm

Heh.

"Green jobs czar"

Man, these creeps are satires of themselves at this point.

693 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:34:16pm

Hate mail now up to 21.

694 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:34:16pm

re: #687 Bagua

re: #689 Charles

He did seem more chagrined than indignant.

695 slokat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:34:40pm

re: #683 DrNaughty

I'd like a chance with Marsha Brady...

I don't care what the topic is it's always about Marsha, Marsha , Marsha...

696 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:34:54pm

re: #643 Killgore Trout

He's what, a diversity czar? Why the fuck would I care about a diversity czar and why would I be surprised if he's a leftist douchebag?

I was wondering earlier what a Green Job Advisor was exactly and what kind of authority comes with this position. I don't think this man has the power to change great events.

697 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:34:57pm

re: #674 haakondahl

Is the Political Punch followed by the Bi-Partisan Bite?

I can't believe that you are you going to listen to anyone at ABC, which is the wacky main stream media, and the Washington Times, which is nothing but hyperbole and of course Van Jones himself, who we all know is a big fat lier?

698 snowcrash  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:35:29pm

re: #673 Charles
He can't punch back? Or go for his knees and pull him down? He's 20 years younger and all he can do is bite? Whatever, its done.

699 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:35:31pm

re: #679 Bagua

Alternatively, he may have grabbed the victim by the face while he punched him with the other fist - something I've seen first hand - the attacker severed his own finger.

Un-fricking-likely. It could also be that the biter showed up with razorblades in his mouth. Lots of things could have happened.

700 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:36:04pm

re: #616 unrealizedviewpoint

Are we now totally discounting the WT here? Wow!

The Washington Times is shit. It's a rag that has been repeatedly busted distorting items and outright lying in order to advance a partisan/conservative agenda. They're completely dishonest. Their lies have been documented here as well as elsewhere.

I'll acknowledge that they may at times have an article that doesn't contain a lie or a distortion, but their track record is such that you have to always be suspicious of them and find independent confirmation. As such, I consider them worthless as a primary news source.

701 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:36:04pm

re: #665 Coracle

Both the statute and the facts - including is own admission - support Rice being guilty of assault and battery before the biter was guilty of anything. It's pretty simple.

Let me try this again. The guy had the much younger Move On guy in his face. He reasonably concluded that the guy had the 'ABILITY" to perform a battery & defended himself.
When the guy got in his face , that was the battery.

702 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:36:16pm

re: #681 Danny

Here's the Hugo Chavez love connection, Charles:

"Conservatives were already clamoring for Jones head - especially after Fox News host Glenn Beck devoted Monday and Tuesday segments of his nightly broadcast portraying Jones as a radical linked in some way, shape or form to the worldviews of Hugo Chavez, Jeremiah Wright, and, of course, Barack Obama.

Great. The case against Jones was built by Glen Beck. Does anyone have any good news to report?

703 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:36:29pm

re: #696 Flyers1974

I've been trying to figure out exactly what green jobs are, too. The penumbra is pretty inclusive.

704 USCMSNE  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:36:32pm
UPDATE: A response was provided to reporters Thursday evening. In it, Mr. Jones apologized for signing the statement and said he doesn't feel that way today and never has had such thoughts, although the 911Truth group claims to have personally confirmed support from all of their signers.
"In recent days some in the news media have reported on past statements I made before I joined the administration – some of which were made years ago," Mr. Jones said. "If I have offended anyone with statements I made in the past, I apologize. As for the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever.

LINK

It's a little troubling that this website would defend Jones. Now, the defense hasn't been overt. But the posts that have cross linked to CoC under the guise of Beck Hate only give credibility to a man and an organization that deserves none. If you disagree with Beck, so be it, but to ignore the man that is Van Jones because it feeds into your message is despicable. His quoted statement from the WT says everything that needs to be said. He apologizes for signing it. Well, that's convenient now, isn't it?

705 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:36:36pm

re: #699 haakondahl

It could also be that the biter showed up with razorblades in his mouth. Lots of things could have happened.

It's true. I always attend healthcare rallies with razor blades in my mouth.

706 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:36:42pm

re: #686 karmic_inquisitor

But I thought the Europeans were those nasty socialists, not capitalists! Did we not hear over the past years how we ought to be different than the Europeans, and that Europe-loving politicians are evil?

707 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:36:58pm

re: #696 Flyers1974

I was wondering earlier what a Green Job Advisor was exactly and what kind of authority comes with this position. I don't think this man has the power to change great events.

He has the power granted him by the President.

708 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:37:07pm

re: #686 karmic_inquisitor

The European Central Bank has basically declared their recession over. They are in recovery.

[Link: www.theaustralian.news.com.au...]

Wouldn't it be great to live in one of those capitalist countries where politicians resist using recessions to institute massive spending programs that only prolong the pain?

Preach it brother. Obama begged them to spend more the first quarter of this year. Thankfully, they had the courage and insight to tell him to get bent. They'll be in a much better economic position in 18 months - just before we replace Zimbabwe as the world's leader for hyper-inflation. Good times. Good times.

709 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:37:13pm

re: #703 jaunte

I've been trying to figure out exactly what green jobs are, too. The penumbra is pretty inclusive.

Ones created by tax dollars...

710 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:37:18pm

re: #697 Walter L. Newton

I can't believe that you are you going to listen to anyone at ABC, which is the wacky main stream media, and the Washington Times, which is nothing but hyperbole and of course Van Jones himself, who we all know is a big fat lier?

He must be a Statist-ical out-liar.

711 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:37:26pm

re: #686 karmic_inquisitor

The European Central Bank has basically declared their recession over. They are in recovery.

During the great depression, most of Europe recovered before we did.

712 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:37:42pm

re: #700 iceweasel

The Washington Times is shit. It's a rag that has been repeatedly busted distorting items and outright lying in order to advance a partisan/conservative agenda. They're completely dishonest. Their lies have been documented here as well as elsewhere.

I'll acknowledge that they may at times have an article that doesn't contain a lie or a distortion, but their track record is such that you have to always be suspicious of them and find independent confirmation. As such, I consider them worthless as a primary news source.

I agree, and we wouldn't want to let that little thing from Jack Tapper at ABC get in the way of all this. We can't be having all these sources confirming this.

713 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:37:46pm

re: #703 jaunte

I've been trying to figure out exactly what green jobs are, too. The penumbra is pretty inclusive.

That's nothing. Wait until you see the emanations!

714 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:37:54pm

re: #705 Coracle

It's true. I always attend healthcare rallies with razor blades in my mouth.

Bleeding Gums Murphy!
[Link: simpsons.wikia.com...]

715 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:38:05pm

re: #701 opnion

Let me try this again. The guy had the much younger Move On guy in his face. He reasonably concluded that the guy had the 'ABILITY" to perform a battery & defended himself.
When the guy got in his face , that was the battery.

He was at a demonstration. People shout at demonstrations. This is absolutely no excuse for committing violence.

716 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:38:06pm

re: #654 jaunte

The STORM summation document (published in 2004) doesn't mention any Truther ideas. Communist, revolutionary ideas, yes. Troofer, no.
Why would they be covering up five years in advance of possible future czardom?

The fact that we can find no evidence of the conspiracy only PROVES that the conspiracy is much deeper and more subtle than we at first thought!

It's just like Obama's grandparents cunningly placing birth announcements in Hawaiian news papers in anticipation of him one day running for POTUS!

The troof is out there!

717 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:38:13pm

re: #705 Coracle

It's true. I always attend healthcare rallies with razor blades in my mouth.

And here I was, lugging that heavy assault weapon ...

/headsmack

718 DaveOlson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:38:14pm

Either Obama is purposefully stocking the White House with crazies, or he is too dumb to know the difference. I don't know which is worse.

719 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:38:16pm

re: #701 opnion

Let me try this again. The guy had the much younger Move On guy in his face. He reasonably concluded that the guy had the 'ABILITY" to perform a battery & defended himself.
When the guy got in his face , that was the battery.

You can try it as many times as you want and still be wrong. Look at the CA statute. Battery is physical violence. Assault is attempt at physical violence. "Getting in his face" is neither.

720 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:38:16pm

re: #705 Coracle

It's true. I always attend healthcare rallies with razor blades in my mouth.

Settled, then. Next topic?

721 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:38:20pm

re: #700 iceweasel

The Washington Times is shit. It's a rag that has been repeatedly busted distorting items and outright lying in order to advance a partisan/conservative agenda. They're completely dishonest. Their lies have been documented here as well as elsewhere.

And this is different from the New York Time, how?

722 kcladderman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:38:32pm

re: #700 iceweasel

So you are judging them on their past?

723 Pianobuff  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:38:50pm

If by some strange circumstance Obama jettisons Jones under the bus, will Beck try to take credit?

724 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:38:54pm

re: #718 DaveOlson

Either Obama is purposefully stocking the White House with crazies, or he is too dumb to know the difference. I don't know which is worse.

He's just takin care of his bros...

725 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:39:04pm

re: #682 jaunte

The puncher said he doesn't want to sue the biter.

Yeah, wait until a lawyer gets hold of him.

726 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:39:21pm

re: #715 Charles

He was at a demonstration. People shout at demonstrations. This is absolutely no excuse for committing violence.

Quite Concur.

727 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:39:25pm

re: #712 Walter L. Newton

I agree, and we wouldn't want to let that little thing from Jack Tapper at ABC get in the way of all this. We can't be having all these sources confirming this.

The sources confirming this are troofers.

728 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:39:31pm

re: #718 DaveOlson

Either Obama is purposefully stocking the White House with crazies, or he is too dumb to know the difference. I don't know which is worse.

What's worse? The fact that he has the power to stock the White House with anything.

729 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:39:36pm

re: #693 Charles

Hate mail now up to 21.

It can drink now.

730 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:39:42pm

re: #721 JarHeadLifer

And this is different from the New York Time, how?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

731 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:39:54pm

re: #675 Wendya

That's not the same as hoisting the flag on the south lawn.

As long as it's flown lower than the stars and stripes, a non issue.

732 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:39:57pm

re: #691 TheMatrix31

No, it's still Bush's fault. Gosh, how could you be so naive?!

Sorry, I'm still learning about this here economics stuff.

733 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:40:02pm

re: #715 Charles

It is not freedom of speech to scream in someone's face.

734 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:40:12pm

The victim of the attack is bad because he defended himself in an 'animalistic' fashion against the repeated face-punching!

I'm hearing this from conservatives?

WOW.

735 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:40:30pm

This guy is a total whack job. A frickin loon. A commie Clown.

736 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:40:34pm

re: #700 iceweasel

The Washington New York Times is shit. It's a rag that has been repeatedly busted distorting items and outright lying in order to advance a partisan/conservative liberal agenda. They're completely dishonest. Their lies have been documented here as well as elsewhere.

I'll acknowledge that they may at times have an article that doesn't contain a lie or a distortion, but their track record is such that you have to always be suspicious of them and find independent confirmation. As such, I consider them worthless as a primary news source.

FTFY - I now agree with you.

737 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:40:38pm

re: #728 TheMatrix31

What's worse? The fact that he has the power to stock the White House with anything.

He was voted into office by a majority of the citizens of America. I know you don't like this, but it's a fact. And yes, that means he has the power to appoint cabinet members and other officials.

Waaah.

738 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:40:39pm

re: #663 jaunte

It's a mistake to punch a dog in the mouth, too.

I did about two years ago. A big dog attacked my pug in a park. Big dog let go, pug was ok and I ended up with a stress fracture in my hand which healed in about 4 months. Not the smartest move.

739 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:40:42pm

re: #652 Alberta Oil Peon

And, if you will recollect, there was practically zero in the way of backlash against actual Arab-Americans in the days following 9/11. Practically zero. I seem to remember some poor Sikh cab driver who was beaten to death by some yo-yo who thought he was a Muslim, but widespread attacks against Muslims simply never happened, despite the best efforts of Jones and his ilk to find evidence to the contrary.

I recollect differently. Two convenience store owners within a mile of my house had to post signs on their doors saying that that they condemned the attacks. They were American citizens and they loved their country. They just happened to be Pakistanis at birth. There was intimidation all over the place. Ugly.

740 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:41:02pm

re: #614 Desert Dog

Hey, it was the LEFT PINKY...that is a signal...

Indeed.

Arise you who refuse to be slaves

With our flesh and our blood let us build

Our new great wall

/

741 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:41:06pm

Hypodermic Needle Attacks Prompt Mass Protests In China's XinJiang

[Link: www.japantoday.com...]

/ no reports of finger biting or wrist slitting though.

742 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:41:39pm

re: #737 Charles

He was voted into office by a majority of the citizens of America. I know you don't like this, but it's a fact. And yes, that means he has the power to appoint cabinet members and other officials.

Waaah.

Well obviously.

743 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:41:56pm

re: #723 Pianobuff

If by some strange circumstance Obama jettisons Jones under the bus, will Beck try to take credit?

Are you kidding. he'll ahve won. It'll be a freakin' circus over there.

744 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:42:09pm

re: #739 austin_blue

I recollect differently. Two convenience store owners within a mile of my house had to post signs on their doors saying that that they condemned the attacks. They were American citizens and they loved their country. They just happened to be Pakistanis at birth. There was intimidation all over the place. Ugly.

I recall the same, and also the large number of American Flags that appeared a gas stations and convenience stores as well...

745 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:42:36pm

re: #715 Charles

He was at a demonstration. People shout at demonstrations. This is absolutely no excuse for committing violence.

The issue is a legal one. Did the old guy reasonably conclude that the Move On guy meant him violence & did he have the 'ability " to attack?
Politics are not realevant.

746 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:42:56pm

re: #658 snowcrash

Punching is anger, biting is rage. He bit through skin, tendon and bone. He had blood in his mouth and severed a body park. He is an animal.

Sorry, but if you initiate unprovoked violence, you get what you deserve. That reminds me of a story of a man who physically attacked a woman. He initiated the violence, and lost an eye for his trouble. Tough shit, I say. He had it coming.

747 wee fury  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:43:06pm

re: #734 Jimmah

The victim of the attack is bad because he defended himself in an 'animalistic' fashion against the repeated face-punching!

I'm hearing this from conservatives?

WOW.

What? The little fingerless man is the one who did the punching.

748 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:43:10pm

re: #734 Jimmah

The victim of the attack is bad because he defended himself in an 'animalistic' fashion against the repeated face-punching!

I'm hearing this from conservatives?

WOW.

We also know nothing about the victim who bit him, the man may have been in terror of his life, may have been diabetic or a hemophiliac, or had a neck injury...

We also know nothing about the victim who bit him, the man may have been in terror of his life, may have been diabetic or a hemophiliac, or had a neck injury... however, I find it most likely that fingerless attacker was grabbing with his left and punching with his right, otherwise it would be difficult to generate the force to sever a finger.

749 cronus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:43:12pm

For those linking to the updated Washington Times blog post... I am not sure the wording of the update on that post is accurate. I haven't read any other outlet reporting as of yet that in the statement Jones released this evening he specifically apologized for signing the petition (or even admitted to signing the petition) I think the blogger/reporter may be confusing his nonstatement statement on the petition with his actual apology for the other past remarks he's being criticized for.

The only other info I'm seeing I have posted up thread that anonymous sources MAY be laying the groundwork for Jones to admit that he did sign the petition.

750 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:43:17pm

re: #739 austin_blue

I recollect differently. Two convenience store owners within a mile of my house had to post signs on their doors saying that that they condemned the attacks. They were American citizens and they loved their country. They just happened to be Pakistanis at birth. There was intimidation all over the place. Ugly.

A lot of cab drivers in my city put flags in their cabs- folks didn't want to drive with them because they were foreigners.

751 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:43:18pm

re: #741 karmic_inquisitor

Hypodermic Needle Attacks Prompt Mass Protests In China's XinJiang

[Link: www.japantoday.com...]

/ no reports of finger biting or wrist slitting though.

A needle attack could be far worse than having a finger bitten off. Such needles could carry HIV or lethal poisons.

752 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:43:25pm

re: #734 Jimmah

The victim of the attack is bad because he defended himself in an 'animalistic' fashion against the repeated face-punching!

I'm hearing this from conservatives?

WOW.

That's right. Go take a look at the right wing blogs. Most of them are calling the batterer a hero tonight.

753 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:43:26pm

re: #730 Dark_Falcon

Two wrongs don't make a right.

In Glenn Beck's case, it took a whole lot more than 2.

754 realwest  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:43:54pm

re: #418 Killian Bundy

China's national flag to go up in White House on Sept 20


/lovely, too bad the USSR isn't still around


Gee I wonder if the Chinese will let us put up Old Glory in Tiannemen Square?! You know, reciprocity?
/

755 3 wood  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:43:54pm

re: #721 JarHeadLifer

And this is different from the New York Time, how?

Because the NYT shills for the Democrats, so it's OK.

756 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:43:57pm

re: #737 Charles

He was voted into office by a majority of the citizens of America. I know you don't like this, but it's a fact. And yes, that means he has the power to appoint cabinet members and other officials.

Waaah.

The government has the power to govern? When did this commie-nazi subversion begin? What is happening to my dear sweet America?

/ Glenn Beck mode off

757 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:44:09pm

re: #727 Sharmuta

The sources confirming this are troofers.

Jones confirmed the signing himself, now we can argue (like he is) if he knew what he is doing, but there is no doubt that he admists to signing it.

"Mr. Jones apologized for signing the statement and said he doesn't feel that way today and never has had such thoughts, although the 911Truth group claims to have personally confirmed support from all of their signers."

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

758 VioletTiger  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:44:16pm

Here is the questionnaire you would have to fill out for a job with the Obama administration.

Questions 61-63 are interesting.

759 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:44:26pm

re: #746 Slumbering Behemoth

Sorry, but if you initiate unprovoked violence, you get what you deserve. That reminds me of a story of a man who physically attacked a woman. He initiated the violence, and lost an eye for his trouble. Tough shit, I say. He had it coming.

Agreed. You start throwing punches, its your fault if you get maimed.

760 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:44:28pm

re: #733 Mich-again

It is not freedom of speech to scream in someone's face.

If you close in & scream that can have the elements of assault.

761 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:44:32pm

re: #744 DrNaughty

I recall the same, and also the large number of American Flags that appeared a gas stations and convenience stores as well...

Damn.

I liove in "redneck country" and saw no such thing.

I thought we were all racists.

The world is so confusing now.

/

762 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:44:49pm

Phillies beat the Giants again tonight 2-1

Magic number now at 22...

763 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:44:50pm

re: #757 Walter L. Newton

I'm going to go with cronus on this.

764 The Shadow Do  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:44:59pm

A couple of morons end up in a street scrimmage, one loses a finger, or an eye gouged out, or a leg broken or whatthehellever. This happens in every town, every night. Why is this news at all? Stupid, stupid, stupid. Why does anyone give a rip about any of these actors. Politics, Jerry Springer style is what it is. I don't pay attention to that crap either.

765 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:45:06pm

re: #745 opnion

The issue is a legal one. Did the old guy reasonably conclude that the Move On guy meant him violence & did he have the 'ability " to attack?
Politics are not realevant.


If the Move On guy yelled anything threatening that was assault, when the old guy hit him, that was battery.

766 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:45:18pm

re: #667 Slumbering Behemoth

Maybe they'll bite their pinkies off in solidarity. Morons.

Yeah, and mail them to Congress. It worked so well with those teabags.

I can see the ads on Red State's Trike Force now, and the rest of Greater Wingnuttia throughout the blogosphere...

"Help us give Congress the finger! Sever yours now and send it and your donation to us, and we'll make sure Congress gets the message!"

767 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:45:48pm

re: #747 wee fury

What? The little fingerless man is the one who did the punching.

I know - read my post again.

768 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:46:00pm

re: #761 OldLineTexan

Damn.

I liove in "redneck country" and saw no such thing.

I thought we were all racists.

The world is so confusing now.

/

I live in Atlanta, and at the time my manager gave us all these little American flags to put in our desk pen cups, or whatever.. There was flag-mania around here...

769 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:46:04pm

re: #763 Sharmuta

I'm going to go with cronus on this.

ANd just a few comment up thread, someone mentioned that the Washington Times quote may be inaccurate.

So, I suspect we wait, someone is going to get to the bottom of this.

770 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:46:07pm

re: #752 Charles

That's right. Go take a look at the right wing blogs. Most of them are calling the batterer a hero tonight.

Why would anyone do so? It OK to protest and work for change the way conservatives want it. It is clearly not OK to attack the other. It is bad when the SEIU does it, and it is bad when a conservative does it.

771 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:46:16pm

re: #704 USCMSNE

LINK

It's a little troubling that this website would defend Jones.

Hmmm...

Have you considered that some of us are just tired of the witch-trial approach (e.g., Glenn Beck) that finds people guilty first.

Or, have you considered that some of us prefer to see arguments about policies be made on the merits of those policies, rather than tagging them with hot-button terms (like Socialist!)?

I probably agree with Van Jones on about 50% to 2/3rds of what he has said. That he has been influenced by Marxian utopianism is regrettable, as is his likely agreeing to put his name on that petition for the sake of political expediency. One of the problems with being young is making decisions without knowing how they will come back to haunt you years later.

If today Van Jones is willing to denounce "trutherism", which apparently he has done, then that is a good thing.

772 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:46:26pm
773 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:46:36pm

re: #762 DrNaughty

Phillies beat the Giants again tonight 2-1

Magic number now at 22...

Nice.

774 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:46:56pm

I don't buy the punching story for an instance. The logical conclusion of all the various stories was six to 10 anti-Obamacare protesters were doing a protest march with signs. Left wing loon runs across street and put face into the old guy's. Old guy feels his space is invaded and pushes the angry shouter with an open hand right in face. Angry man bites finger in mouth and drops to the ground with finger.

775 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:47:17pm

re: #763 Sharmuta

I'm going to go with cronus on this.

Sorry, that's the comment I was referring to. We will see I suspect.

776 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:47:25pm

re: #731 avanti

As long as it's flown lower than the stars and stripes, a non issue.

It's not part of a State visit. It's granting a petition by Chinese groups to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the PRC.

/not something I like to see the White House getting down with, given Chinese communist history

777 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:47:36pm

re: #701 opnion


When the guy got in his face , that was the battery.

No, it's not. He called him and idiot, the idiot responded with violence, and lost part of his finger for his trouble. Tough shit.

778 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:47:44pm

re: #706 freetoken

But I thought the Europeans were those nasty socialists, not capitalists! Did we not hear over the past years how we ought to be different than the Europeans, and that Europe-loving politicians are evil?

You mean like Merkel? Or Sarko?

The Europeans have been leaving the socialist train station for some time and managed to not get into profligate spending back in February (which Obama tried to encourage them to do).

They know the no growth story too well and are tired of things like ceaseless transportation strikes to extort new public benefits and systemic unemployment of 20% for young workers. They've been there and they've done that. More than a few friends from there have commented on the paradox that we are moving left while they are moving right (economically).

Asia and Europe will lead the recovery. And unless we develop more exports we won't see much of one.

779 wee fury  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:47:46pm

re: #767 Jimmah

I know - read my post again.

I did after I posted. Am ashamed to say that I had another reading comprehension problem. :-( I apologize. I will now toddle off to bed in disgrace.

780 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:47:46pm

re: #734 Jimmah

The victim of the attack is bad because he defended himself in an 'animalistic' fashion against the repeated face-punching!

I'm hearing this from conservatives?

WOW.


The "Victim" provoked the attack. Severing a finger is disprortionate.

781 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:47:48pm

re: #773 Flyers1974

Nice.

I recall the 74 Stanley Cup also... Still can't believe that was the last one the Flyers won..

782 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:47:56pm

re: #721 JarHeadLifer

And this is different from the New York Time, how?

The New York Times isn't owned by the Moonies. You do understand the difference between editorial and reporting, don't you?

783 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:48:10pm

re: #774 pat

I don't buy the punching story for an instance. The logical conclusion of all the various stories was six to 10 anti-Obamacare protesters were doing a protest march with signs. Left wing loon runs across street and put face into the old guy's. Old guy feels his space is invaded and pushes the angry shouter with an open hand right in face. Angry man bites finger in mouth and drops to the ground with finger.

He ADMITTED ON NATIONAL TELEVISION that he punched the guy twice.

Good grief.

784 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:48:20pm

re: #758 VioletTiger

Here is the questionnaire you would have to fill out for a job with the Obama administration.

Questions 61-63 are interesting.

I've seen this doc in better form. This, though probably accurate, lacks credibility without a letterhead.

785 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:48:26pm

re: #768 DrNaughty

I live in Atlanta, and at the time my manager gave us all these little American flags to put in our desk pen cups, or whatever.. There was flag-mania around here...

I already had American and Texas flags on the wall in the high bay.

And I didn't initimidate my Muslim coworker, whose name happens to be Mohammed.

Again, DAMN.

786 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:48:31pm

re: #543 haakondahl

You know, the last time I saw funerals this messed-up, they were for Arafat and Ayatollah Khomeini.

By the ayatollah's funeral, the pallbearers lost their grip, bobbled the coffin and the corpse dropped out. Immediately mourners swarmed the corpse and many made off with souvenir body parts.

787 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:48:32pm

re: #749 cronus

For those linking to the updated Washington Times blog post... I am not sure the wording of the update on that post is accurate.


Agreed. The Wash Times is equating "past statements" as an admission that he signed the 9-11 truth petition. That does not seem to be the case. If he did sign it I'll be happy to condemn him but so far he hasn't admitted to it.

788 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:48:33pm

re: #780 opnion

The "Victim" provoked the attack. Severing a finger is disprortionate.

Boo hoo.

789 VioletTiger  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:49:05pm

re: #762 DrNaughty

Phillies beat the Giants again tonight 2-1

Magic number now at 22...

THAT explains why Mr Tiger was so cranky...

790 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:49:40pm

re: #769 Walter L. Newton

ANd just a few comment up thread, someone mentioned that the Washington Times quote may be inaccurate.

So, I suspect we wait, someone is going to get to the bottom of this.

They'll be confirmation in the AM.

791 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:49:44pm

re: #758 VioletTiger

Here is the questionnaire you would have to fill out for a job with the Obama administration.

Questions 61-63 are interesting.

Questions 64-67:

64. How do you feel about the underside of buses?

65. Have you ever played Unicorn rugby?

66. Have you, now or ever, been a member of any political machine other than the Chicago machine?

67. Do you look better than Mr. Emmanuel in tights?*

*Okay, that one is a bit over the top. I'll slap my hand.

792 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:50:02pm

re: #757 Walter L. Newton

Jones confirmed the signing himself, now we can argue (like he is) if he knew what he is doing, but there is no doubt that he admists to signing it.

"Mr. Jones apologized for signing the statement and said he doesn't feel that way today and never has had such thoughts, although the 911Truth group claims to have personally confirmed support from all of their signers."

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]


Yeah, but you know he got caught& all, so he's like really sorry now & you know never supported what he signed.

793 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:50:12pm

Keep your hand out of other people's mouths and they won't bite off you fingers.
/very simple

794 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:50:19pm

re: #772 HelloDare

You were supposed to find proof of his trooferism- that's what the folks want to hear. Not the truth! You are pissing on the parade!

795 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:50:21pm

re: #780 opnion

The "Victim" provoked the attack. Severing a finger is disprortionate.

Even he got into a screaming match, that did not give the other guy an excuse to throw punches. And I'd argue that severing a finger might well have been the level of force needed to stop the attack.

796 realwest  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:50:25pm

re: #776 Killian Bundy
Hey Killian - see my # 754 above.

797 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:50:36pm

re: #783 Charles

I had not heard that, but if some asshole got too close to my face he would not get up. I am willing to be corrected on the facts as I have been out all day.

798 kcladderman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:50:37pm

re: #769 Walter L. Newton

ANd just a few comment up thread, someone mentioned that the Washington Times quote may be inaccurate.

So, I suspect we wait, someone is going to get to the bottom of this.

I would imagine if he did sign it, it was more a case of just signing something because it was anti Bush. I doubt he ever truly believed the attack was planned by Bush

799 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:50:41pm

re: #793 Killgore Trout

Keep your hand out of other people's mouths and they won't bite off you fingers.
/very simple

Maybe try not punching them...

800 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:51:03pm

re: #793 Killgore Trout

Keep your hand out of other people's mouths and they won't bite off you fingers.
/very simple

Exactly.

801 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:51:08pm

re: #793 Killgore Trout

Keep your hand out of other people's mouths and they won't bite off you fingers.
/very simple

Bobbiting 2.0

802 MJ  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:51:15pm

The New Face of Environmentalism

Van Jones renounced his rowdy black nationalism on the way toward becoming an influential leader of the new progressive politics.

By Eliza Strickland

November 2, 2005

[Link: www.eastbayexpress.com...]

803 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:51:25pm

re: #791 EmmmieG

Questions 64-67:

64. How do you feel about the underside of buses?

65. Have you ever played Unicorn rugby?

66. Have you, now or ever, been a member of any political machine other than the Chicago machine?

67. Do you look better than Mr. Emmanuel in tights?*

*Okay, that one is a bit over the top. I'll slap my hand.

Oh, a joke. heading back, humor good.

804 theheat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:51:37pm

Wow. I'm remanded to doing icky work stuff all day, come here, and it's a freakin' throwdown. WTF is going on around here?

805 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:52:02pm

re: #734 Jimmah

The victim of the attack is bad because he defended himself in an 'animalistic' fashion against the repeated face-punching!

I'm hearing this from conservatives?

WOW.

I know you're hearing it from some, but I am very skeptical about the "conservatives" part. It's not normally a conservative position to defend a violent attacker.

806 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:52:06pm

re: #796 realwest

Hey Killian - see my # 754 above.

Hello, Realwest! How was your day?

807 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:52:10pm
"While we do not have any more facts about what happened than what we saw in press accounts, MoveOn condemns violence in all forms," Hogue said. "We support the Ventura County sheriff's investigation into the situation. It is our firm hope that this event does not detract from the tens of thousands who were out peacefully making their voices heard for health care reform and a public option."

Getting in someone's face and screaming at them is violence. At Gitmo its downright torture.

808 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:52:18pm

re: #804 theheat

Wow. I'm remanded to doing icky work stuff all day, come here, and it's a freakin' throwdown. WTF is going on around here?

Separating anti-idiotarians from... others?

809 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:52:53pm

re: #804 theheat

WTF is going on around here?

Separating the wheat from the chaff. it has to be done on occasion.

810 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:53:05pm

I should watch or read news. Had a seminar all day then wife took me to movie. Julia/Julie. i recommend it for everyone.

811 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:53:13pm

re: #693 Charles

Hate mail now up to 21.

Please share the most entertaining ones.

812 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:53:20pm

This long hot summer is starting to wear on me...

What else are we going to fight about before the Holiday season is upon us?

813 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:53:30pm

re: #804 theheat

Wow. I'm remanded to doing icky work stuff all day, come here, and it's a freakin' throwdown. WTF is going on around here?

We're trying to put a finger on it.

814 theheat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:53:37pm

re: #808 Sharmuta

It's like playing jump rope, and trying to land smack dab in the middle of a hurricane. I think I might listen to classical music and let my head clear.

815 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:53:43pm

31 hate mails so far over the pinky guy and Van Jones.

816 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:53:48pm

re: #807 Mich-again

Getting in someone's face and screaming at them is violence. At Gitmo its downright torture.

LOL!

817 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:53:53pm

re: #325 slokat

Van Jones can express himself when he wants to...

Let's Rescue America

Class envy, racism, BDS, and nothing to hold the local, parish, and state government accountable for anything.

Yes, he certainly can express himself.

818 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:53:58pm

re: #810 pat

I should watch or read news. Had a seminar all day then wife took me to movie. Julia/Julie. i recommend it for everyone.

I love cooking but I hate chick flicks. Please advise.

819 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:00pm

re: #788 Coracle

Boo hoo.

Very mature. You must feel good about that.

820 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:02pm

re: #774 pat

I don't buy the punching story for an instance. The logical conclusion of all the various stories was six to 10 anti-Obamacare protesters were doing a protest march with signs. Left wing loon runs across street and put face into the old guy's. Old guy feels his space is invaded and pushes the angry shouter with an open hand right in face. Angry man bites finger in mouth and drops to the ground with finger.

Here it from the horse/ mouth.
[Link: hotair.com...]

821 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:03pm

re: #781 DrNaughty

I recall the 74 Stanley Cup also... Still can't believe that was the last one the Flyers won..

Who would have thought after their last cup that something called the Mighty Ducks would win the Cup before Philly won again. Or the Dallas Stars...etc...

822 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:06pm

Pinky hate.

823 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:14pm

Pinky Ackbar!

824 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:16pm

re: #815 Charles

31 hate mails so far over the pinky guy and Van Jones.

Yow. Is it approaching any kind of record?

825 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:19pm

re: #805 Slumbering Behemoth

I know you're hearing it from some, but I am very skeptical about the "conservatives" part. It's not normally a conservative position to defend a violent attacker.

That was before the spread of the Bad Craziness.

826 Pingemi  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:23pm

I know the subject has now turned to the a different incident but I'd like to get back to the subject of the post and to my own situation.

Charles in comment #380 you suggested that I gave support in comment #369. I rebutted this in comment #507 and requested that you retract the suggestion that I was expressing support for the BNP and by implication support the BNP

I know that you have been distracted by the new topic of the altercation at the protest but I think the suggestion that I support a fascist party is important enough for us to get back to it.

I respectfully request you re-read the two comments in question and repeat my request that you retract your suggestion in comment #380 that I expressed support for the BNP and by implication support the BNP.

Or if you believe otherwise I'd prefer that you expressly accuse me of supporting them. That way I know where I stand with you.

827 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:31pm

re: #776 Killian Bundy

It's not part of a State visit. It's granting a petition by Chinese groups to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the PRC.

/not something I like to see the White House getting down with, given Chinese communist history

Well, yeah, except for their membership on the Security Council, and all that. Sometimes, my man, you just have to suck it up and accept the reality of the world at hand.

828 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:43pm

re: #819 opnion

Very mature. You must feel good about that.

Not really. I died a little inside when I posted that.

829 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:44pm

re: #815 Charles

I'll check back around 4am and see how the threads get run over with the late-night attacks... should be a good one tonight!

830 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:45pm

re: #824 Coracle

Yow. Is it approaching any kind of record?

Is that a 400% increase?

/

831 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:50pm

re: #782 austin_blue

The New York Times isn't owned by the Moonies. You do understand the difference between editorial and reporting, don't you?

You're claiming that the Sulzburger family isn't as dysfunctional as the Moonies? That might not be an argument you want to have. After AM Rosenthal left the paper in the mid-'80's, whatever barrier existed between the NY Times editorial board - to the extent one ever existed - completely dissolved.

If you can't discern the insanely leftist bent of Bill Keller and his DNC propagandists, I'm not sure you're actually reading the paper.

832 Cato  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:54:54pm

Extremist Jake Tapper weighs in:

[Link: twitter.com...]

833 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:55:04pm

re: #812 freetoken

This long hot summer is starting to wear on me...

What else are we going to fight about before the Holiday season is upon us?

Turkey recipes.

834 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:55:19pm

re: #824 Coracle

Yow. Is it approaching any kind of record?

That's a record. People really want to hate, and if you try to talk them out of it, the hate gets turned on you.

835 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:55:27pm

re: #805 Slumbering Behemoth

I know you're hearing it from some, but I am very skeptical about the "conservatives" part. It's not normally a conservative position to defend a violent attacker.

It's not normal- but these people have been whipped up into a frenzy by all the fear mongering. Not to mention the constant "revolution" meme. Some of these folks want violence- they're not thinking clearly about how devastating mass violence in this country would be, not just for us, but for other countries who depend on American support and/or commerce. Selfish bastards, if you ask me.

836 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:55:40pm

re: #832 Cato

"a source says"
/meh

837 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:55:49pm

re: #821 Flyers1974

Who would have thought after their last cup that something called the Mighty Ducks would win the Cup before Philly won again. Or the Dallas Stars...etc...

I do enjoy and support the Thrashers except when the Flyers come to Atlanta. but my sports heart belongs to the Phillies... I only go to the Braves games when they are in town.

838 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:56:24pm

re: #822 jaunte

Pinky hate.

All Pinky, no Brain

/narf

839 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:56:26pm

re: #818 Killgore Trout

Trout. No way is this a chick flick. it is about determination, cooking, blogs, a true story and fun

840 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:57:01pm

Unnamed sources close to the situation at hand say my Roomba doesn't trust any of you.

841 realwest  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:57:11pm

re: #806 Dark_Falcon
Hey DF - pretty crappy, actually - been feeling sick for a while.
OTOH, being 64 myself, hearing that this 65 year old man "defended himself" sorta lifted my spirits (but I don't agree with what he did; just that maybe some folks won't think they can get in someone's face because they are elderly older).

842 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:57:33pm

re: #840 Killgore Trout

Unnamed sources close to the situation at hand say my Roomba doesn't trust any of you.

Just keep that crazy thing away from my fingers.

843 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:57:48pm

re: #839 pat

Ok, maybe I'll look into it but I really hate chick flicks.
/really

844 The Shadow Do  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:57:54pm

re: #815 Charles

31 hate mails so far over the pinky guy and Van Jones.

Amazing people can get that worked up over this level of stupid. WWE level of dorkdom.

845 Alberta Oil Peon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:57:59pm

re: #584 freetoken

Is it true the employment measurements are a trailing indicator wrt recessions?

You mean like CO2 concentration is a trailing indicator of Gerbil Worming?

846 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:58:06pm

I just woke up a while ago. I haven't seen the video, I haven't read original sources.
Correct me if I'm wrong: one protester approaches the opposing group, in probably an atmosphere of agitation. One of the opposition group punches him twice in the face. The guy getting punched bites a finger off of the opposition puncher's hand.

My assessment:
The guy who "crossed lines" was taking a risk, but unless something more about his own conduct comes up, there's nothing wrong with this.
The guy who threw the punches deserved whatever he got. I am a firm believer that "he who starts shit gets shit".
The biter still did something that I find animalistic, but the puncher doesn't have an argument against him.

However, there's an interesting point to be made here.
What if the biter had shot instead? What if he had felt his life threatened and defended himself with a sidearm? In a way, I would have less a hard time accepting this in the microcosm, but this is not a microcosm. The context is that the biter first went over to confront the group of opposition (to whatever side his was), and if he had gone over there armed and started a confrontation, he would bear the responsibility. You don't get to feel threatened by somebody you advanced upon armed.

There is no such consideration for teeth. So this disproportionate response isn't as condemnable as an armed disproportionate response.

A pox on both of them.

My only point is that I do not feel the biter should escape criticism. If he had wrestled the other man and incidentally caused far worse injury, I would be more comfortable with that than with the grim determination and utter blood-thirst required to bite off a finger.

847 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:58:07pm

re: #834 Charles

HATEON™ TO THE KEYBOARD!

848 theheat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:58:08pm

If Obama has been president about nine months, and this is where we are, I hate to think where we'll be by the 2010 elections. If I recall, it took much longer for the BDS to get this widespread for Bush. And I don't know that anyone lost a finger over it.

Holy shit, this is bad.

849 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:58:30pm

re: #795 Dark_Falcon

Even he got into a screaming match, that did not give the other guy an excuse to throw punches. And I'd argue that severing a finger might well have been the level of force needed to stop the attack.

For god sake it was an old man vs a Move On thug.
By accounts the thug got into the old guys face , very threatening.
You think that biting off his finger is Ok?
If this much younger man had to do that to fend off this attack, he should turn in his Move On Thug card.

850 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:58:31pm

re: #842 Coracle

Roomba sez you got mighty pretty fingers.

851 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:58:37pm

ot: Can we tax these celebrities more since they adore are uber-wealthy and they blindly creepily adore Obama and all of Obama's wonderful big governmetn ideas?

852 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:59:03pm

By the way, people who believe strongly in crazy ideas like 9/11 Trutherism or creationism have been documented to mislead people into signing their idiotic petitions. I don't know what really happened here, but it's entirely possible this petition was presented as an innocuous call for more investigations into the 9/11 attacks -- specifically to get people to sign on who would otherwise turn and run if they knew the true agenda.

These kinds of groups pull this crap ALL the time.

853 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:59:18pm

re: #848 theheat

If Obama has been president about nine months, and this is where we are, I hate to think where we'll be by the 2010 elections. If I recall, it took much longer for the BDS to get this widespread for Bush. And I don't know that anyone lost a finger over it.

Holy shit, this is bad.

The congressional election next year will be very nasty wherever a Democrat is an incumbant...

854 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:59:24pm

re: #845 Alberta Oil Peon

I let LVQ handle AGW issues these days.


/PS It's not that difficult if you are willing to learn.

856 realwest  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 8:59:56pm

re: #827 austin_blue
Well ya know we're a member of the Security Council too - think the Chinese Communitsts will allow us to fly Old Glory in Tiannemen Square?

857 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:00:05pm

re: #848 theheat

If Obama has been president about nine months, and this is where we are, I hate to think where we'll be by the 2010 elections. If I recall, it took much longer for the BDS to get this widespread for Bush. And I don't know that anyone lost a finger over it.

Holy shit, this is bad.

We have 3 1/2 years left of this. And that's if we can present a decent candidate in 2012. We night have 7 1/2 years of this. It's not going to be pretty.

858 OldLineTexan  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:00:37pm

re: #848 theheat

If Obama has been president about nine months, and this is where we are, I hate to think where we'll be by the 2010 elections. If I recall, it took much longer for the BDS to get this widespread for Bush. And I don't know that anyone lost a finger over it.

Holy shit, this is bad.

Bush "stole" the election of 2000.

BDS was in full swing.

859 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:00:41pm

re: #780 opnion

The "Victim" provoked the attack. Severing a finger is disprortionate.

Bullshit. Calling someone an idiot is not grounds for a violent reaction. Saying it is is simply stupid.

Pathetic insults, even when shouted, are nothing but empty words, and they don't mean shit. You can call me every name in the book, and even make some up, and I wont take a swing at you. But if you put hands on me, you may end up losing more than a bit of finger.

Pinky-Man initiated the violence, and got what he deserved.

860 JacksonTn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:00:46pm

Swirling ... does that make me crazy? ... maybe I'm crazy ... maybe your crazy ...

Can't wait for the next chapter ...

861 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:00:49pm

re: #854 freetoken

I let LVQ handle AGW issues these days.

/PS It's not that difficult if you are willing to learn.

Great, the lunatics have taken over the asylum.

/

862 Cato  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:00:51pm

re: #836 Killgore Trout

Tapper has been pretty good, and it is on Twitter so space is limited. I doubt he would risk his job if the source were insubstantial. But you are right, not beyond a rd.

863 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:00:54pm

re: #827 austin_blue

Well, yeah, except for their membership on the Security Council, and all that. Sometimes, my man, you just have to suck it up and accept the reality of the world at hand.

/sorry, in the real world, communist China is not our buddy pal and we don't need to be throwing them a birthday party on the south lawn of the White House

864 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:00:56pm

re: #857 Sharmuta

We have 3 1/2 years left of this. And that's if we can present a decent candidate in 2012. We night have 7 1/2 years of this. It's not going to be pretty.

I hate to say this but it's getting hard to tell what's more annoying.

865 kcladderman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:01:08pm

re: #852 Charles

Thats is why I never sign one.

866 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:01:08pm

re: #843 Killgore Trout

so do I, lol. But when both Michael Medved gives it 4 stars as well as some liberal reviewers, you know you got a winner. Only dick in movie is the unseen Joe McCarthy. Imagine that. A compelling story with out a single villain.

867 swamprat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:01:10pm

Yeah. Everything is funny until someone loses a finger.

868 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:01:36pm

re: #857 Sharmuta

We have 3 1/2 years left of this. And that's if we can present a decent candidate in 2012. We night have 7 1/2 years of this. It's not going to be pretty.

My $$$ is on Romney. Not that he's the most attractive candidate, but that Republicans tend to nominate their last runner-up the next time around

Although J.C. Watts would be my first choice if he chooses to get back into Politics...

869 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:01:39pm

re: #852 Charles

By the way, people who believe strongly in crazy ideas like 9/11 Trutherism or creationism have been documented to mislead people into signing their idiotic petitions. I don't know what really happened here, but it's entirely possible this petition was presented as an innocuous call for more investigations into the 9/11 attacks -- specifically to get people to sign on who would otherwise turn and run if they knew the true agenda.

These kinds of groups pull this crap ALL the time.

A good point. And there are people (maybe Van Jones) who are stupid enough to sign something without really paying close attention to what they are signing.

870 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:01:44pm

re: #857 Sharmuta

We have 3 1/2 years left of this. And that's if we can present a decent candidate in 2012. We night have 7 1/2 years of this. It's not going to be pretty.

But the primaries for 2012 should be entertaining as all get out.

Have any states moved their primaries up to 2010 yet?

871 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:01:44pm

re: #867 swamprat

Yeah. Everything is funny until someone loses a finger.

And then it's hilarious.

872 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:01:50pm

re: #827 austin_blue

Well, yeah, except for their membership on the Security Council, and all that. Sometimes, my man, you just have to suck it up and accept the reality of the world at hand.

No, not really. We recognize China but that doesn't mean the United States of America has to celebrate the founding of a Communist country.

873 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:01:58pm

re: #867 swamprat

Yeah. Everything is funny until someone loses a finger.

Yah, I hate it when that happens.

874 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:01:59pm

I dedicate this song to Glenn Beck, Fox News, Alex Jones, and pushers of misinformation everywhere (and that includes most of the right wing blogosphere at the moment) (NSFW) :

875 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:02:00pm

re: #828 Coracle

Not really. I died a little inside when I posted that.

What can I do to make you feel better?

876 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:02:01pm

re: #855 FrogMarch

Hollywood heavyweights made their pledges to Barack Obama in the video below. Directed and edited by Demi Moore, it features celebrity pledges by Cameron Diaz, Hayden Panetierre, Laura Linney, Dakota Fanning, Jaime Pressley, Ashlee Simpson, Nicole Richie, Ashton Kutcher, Tobey Maguire, Diddy, Alyssa Milano, Marisa Tomei, Courteney Cox Arquette and David Arquette, and others.

/That's not creepy at all.

There may not be a college degree to be found amongst that entire bunch, expect for perhaps Linney. In fact, we might be surprised how many don't even have HS diplomas. But, they're famous so they're smart - or so they'd like us to believe.

878 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:03:03pm

re: #868 DrNaughty

My $$$ is on Romney. Not that he's the most attractive candidate, but that Republicans tend to nominate their last runner-up the next time around

Although J.C. Watts would be my first choice if he chooses to get back into Politics...

I'll he likes his fingers on his hands and his trash in his trashbins.

879 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:03:07pm

re: #831 JarHeadLifer

You're claiming that the Sulzburger family isn't as dysfunctional as the Moonies? That might not be an argument you want to have. After AM Rosenthal left the paper in the mid-'80's, whatever barrier existed between the NY Times editorial board - to the extent one ever existed - completely dissolved.

If you can't discern the insanely leftist bent of Bill Keller and his DNC propagandists, I'm not sure you're actually reading the paper.

Yes. Their reporting is almost exclusively fact-based with multiple sources. Have their been fuck-ups? Yes. But by and large, the reporting has been top-notch. If you don't like what they are reporting, that's a different story, so to speak. But the Right Wing bloviators, over the past several years, have been barking about *what* was published, not about its truth.

880 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:03:16pm

re: #855 FrogMarch


/That's not creepy at all.

I don't find it creep at all. I find it to be sad. This is standard practices - Hollywood stars and other notables want to feel good about themselves; and even more they want other people to feel good about feeling good for the star that is feeling good about themselves.

So they do these sort of stunts.

12 months later few of them will have come through. Those who do deserve kudos. The rest ... it was just a publicity stunt.

It is a form of justification-by-works without all the preaching about God and stuff.

881 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:03:43pm

re: #838 OldLineTexan

All Pinky, no Brain

/narf

They're haters with no brains.
Yes, haters with no brains.
Their national campaign
is easy to explain.
To prove their Paulian worth,
they'll keep on spreading Nirth.

They're dinky, and they give me pain, pain, pain, pain, pain, pain, pain, pain.
Barf.

882 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:03:53pm

re: #783 Charles

He ADMITTED ON NATIONAL TELEVISION that he punched the guy twice.

Good grief.

Who you gonna believe--pat, or your lyin' eyes?

883 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:04:14pm

re: #878 EmmmieG

I'll he likes his fingers on his hands and his trash in his trashbins.

I'll bet that he likes...

Fixed.

884 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:04:15pm

re: #794 Sharmuta

You were supposed to find proof of his trooferism- that's what the folks want to hear. Not the truth! You are pissing on the parade!

I just post what I find. Let the chips fall where they may. All it says is that in 2002 he put his name on a statement that called 9-11 an terrorist event. It is not proof that he didn't sign the 2004 document. I don't like the guy. If he resigns, Obama will probably replace him with somebody just as far to the left.

885 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:04:22pm

re: #875 opnion

What can I do to make you feel better?

Pull my finger?

No.

Shake. And agree to disagree on this.

886 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:04:33pm

The one thing more sickening than people making a guy out to be a hero for punching some loser in the face are the people who are OK with the Sharia justice system that says it OK to bite off an old man's finger in self defense cause the old guy deserved it I guess. Heck, once the old guy punched him, MoveOn could have plucked his eyeballs out to boot. /

The biter is a sick bastard. It isn't normal to be able to chomp down hard enough to bite off someone's finger. What kind of budding psychopath is that? Nevermind what a pansy ass he was for biting. He went out of his way to walk across the street to get in an old man's face to yell and call him an idiot. Then he ends up biting off the dude's finger.

Like I said, sick bastard.

887 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:04:39pm

re: #879 austin_blue

Yes. Their reporting is almost exclusively fact-based with multiple sources. Have their been fuck-ups? Yes. But by and large, the reporting has been top-notch. If you don't like what they are reporting, that's a different story, so to speak. But the Right Wing bloviators, over the past several years, have been barking about *what* was published, not about its truth.

Yes, the NYT is the finest birdcage liner going. Do you really believe this stuff?

888 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:04:50pm

re: #876 JarHeadLifer

There may not be a college degree to be found amongst that entire bunch, expect for perhaps Linney. In fact, we might be surprised how many don't even have HS diplomas. But, they're famous so they're smart - or so they'd like us to believe.

But our cult of personality culture has nothing but respect for the cult of hollywood.
They are filthy rich creepy ivory tower dwelling hypocrites.
Ick.

889 Pingemi  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:04:53pm

re: #380 Charles

It just hit me that you might not have noticed my follow up posts because I didn't use the "reply" button on the post I objected to. If you missed my replies in posts #507 and 826 that might be my bad as this is a very busy thread.

If you did miss them I request you re-read my post #369 and my follow up posts and request again that you retract your suggestion in comment #380 that I expressed support for the BNP and by implication support the BNP.

Or if you believe that I do support the BNP and am in fact a fascist I'd prefer that you expressly say so.

890 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:04:58pm

re: #852 Charles

By the way, people who believe strongly in crazy ideas like 9/11 Trutherism or creationism have been documented to mislead people into signing their idiotic petitions. I don't know what really happened here, but it's entirely possible this petition was presented as an innocuous call for more investigations into the 9/11 attacks -- specifically to get people to sign on who would otherwise turn and run if they knew the true agenda.

These kinds of groups pull this crap ALL the time.

Yep. That's kind of how Richard Dawkins ended up appearing in a movie promoting creationism/id.

891 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:05:05pm

re: #856 realwest

Well ya know we're a member of the Security Council too - think the Chinese Communitsts will allow us to fly Old Glory in Tiannemen Square?

Yes. When a President visits, like Nixon or Bush pere, they did.

892 solomonpanting  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:06:01pm

re: #867 swamprat

Yeah. Everything is funny until someone loses a finger.

Welcome to the digital age.

893 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:06:02pm

re: #886 Mich-again

The one thing more sickening... are the people who are OK with the Sharia justice system that says it OK to bite off an old man's finger in self defense cause the old guy deserved it I guess.

Wow...

894 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:06:35pm

Here's a classic in the hate mail genre:

You are now a first class idiot, with a dismal following of empty
headed asskissers.

BTW, I also know the names of all your personal sock puppet accounts
that you post with.

I will take great pride in exposing you for the fraud you are.

You're all my sock puppets! Bwahahaha! There's only one person here in reality!

895 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:06:45pm

re: #884 HelloDare

I just post what I find. Let the chips fall where they may. All it says is that in 2002 he put his name on a statement that called 9-11 an terrorist event. It is not proof that he didn't sign the 2004 document. I don't like the guy. If he resigns, Obama will probably replace him with somebody just as far to the left.

That's what fact checking is. We're supposed to follow the evidence, not our own biases.

896 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:06:46pm

re: #879 austin_blue

Yes. Their reporting is almost exclusively fact-based with multiple sources.

You should email me. I've got some real estate you might be interested in.

897 Edge  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:06:46pm

Why in the world would anyone be skeptical that Van Jones signed this petition? Given the guy's radical and crackpot views, it would surprise me if he was NOT a truther.

898 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:07:04pm

re: #880 freetoken

I don't find it creep at all. I find it to be sad. This is standard practices - Hollywood stars and other notables want to feel good about themselves; and even more they want other people to feel good about feeling good for the star that is feeling good about themselves.

Mrs Naughty and I have a personal friend (she and her husband are our neighbors actually) who are notables in Country Music. We get along well with them for years, because basically neither my wife and I are Country Music fans, and we see them for who they are when they're not on stage. We've met some of their friends that are also in the music business because they do much of their recording at home

The fact is that they prefer to keep out of the limelight except when they're on tour or on television, and live as normal, quiet life as they can.

899 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:07:06pm

re: #859 Slumbering Behemoth

Bullshit. Calling someone an idiot is not grounds for a violent reaction. Saying it is is simply stupid.

Pathetic insults, even when shouted, are nothing but empty words, and they don't mean shit. You can call me every name in the book, and even make some up, and I wont take a swing at you. But if you put hands on me, you may end up losing more than a bit of finger.

Pinky-Man initiated the violence, and got what he deserved.


I'll see your bullshit. In your rant, you conveniently neglect to factor in that the thug got in an elderly mans face, real close up & threatening.
You willfully just ignore that. That is assault, you might not like that , but that is not relevant, so you post is just bullshit.

900 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:07:25pm

re: #894 Charles

Here's a classic in the hate mail genre:

You're all my sock puppets! Bwahahaha! There's only one person here in reality!

There are on to us...er...you...me...?

901 JacksonTn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:07:40pm

For albusteve ... ya'll keep him in your prayers ...

just another dream ...

Good Night ...

902 meh130  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:07:46pm

re: #5 Charles

It's extremely common for 9/11 Truthers, creationists, and anti-AGW groups to add prominent people's names to lists like this without their knowledge.

Van Jones was "prominent" in 2004? Maybe within the relatively narrow Berkley communist circles, he was prominent, but not in the larger public. Van Jones did not become "prominent" until after he was appointed GreenJobsCzar(tm) and even then only after going into full frontal flake mode.

Nobody knew Van Jones from Van Morrison until a couple of months ago.

Perhaps the Truthers put Van Jone's name on the 2004 list this year.

A more likely story is Van was at some anti-Bushitler protest in Bezerkely and there were truthers running around with clipboards and petitions, and Van signed it without knowing what it was.

903 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:07:46pm

re: #897 Edge

Why in the world would anyone be skeptical that Van Jones signed this petition? Given the guy's radical and crackpot views, it would surprise me if he was NOT a truther.

There's another vote in favor of believing 9/11 Truthers.

904 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:07:46pm

re: #872 Wendya

No, not really. We recognize China but that doesn't mean the United States of America has to celebrate the founding of a Communist country.

It's common diplomatic courtesy for God's sake! What do you want us to do? Have the Chief of Protocol from the State Department take a dump on the tarmac as the Chinese contingent arrives? Don't be silly!

905 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:07:50pm

re: #894 Charles

Here's a classic in the hate mail genre:

You're all my sock puppets! Bwahahaha! There's only one person here in reality!

Wow. You type fast. Really, really fast. How did you post 1,000 times in a half-hour on that one press-conference thread?

906 calcajun  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:07:50pm

re: #892 solomonpanting

It's all fun and games until my foot goes up your ass.

-Veronica Mars

907 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:08:09pm

re: #876 JarHeadLifer

There may not be a college degree to be found amongst that entire bunch, expect for perhaps Linney. In fact, we might be surprised how many don't even have HS diplomas. But, they're famous so they're smart - or so they'd like us to believe.

I wonder if this video is viewed in schools? Our new educational standards. Forget math, science, - we must all support "the won".

908 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:08:36pm

re: #869 Walter L. Newton

A good point. And there are people (maybe Van Jones) who are stupid enough to sign something without really paying close attention to what they are signing.

Don'y you think that they solicited kindred spirits?

909 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:08:39pm

re: #828 Coracle

Not really. I died a little inside when I posted that.

Feel free to post more of it.

910 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:09:04pm

re: #869 Walter L. Newton

A good point. And there are people (maybe Van Jones) who are stupid enough to sign something without really paying close attention to what they are signing.

Also who knows what he signed, if in fact he signed something, could have been worded as an innocent sounding petition to benefit the victims.

Beyond that, conspiracy theories in general seem prolific in the AA community, based upon personal anecdotal evidence, does not make them bad people.

911 Ojoe  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:09:04pm

On this general topic: I'm an architect. I've designed solar buildings. I was in college in the 1970s during an earlier "solar & ecological" time. Back then the interest was more direct, hands on. Now it is politicized, and I hate to see it politicized. Solar & sustainable belong to everyone. They should be happy things.

Now the most questionable types circle around them like vultures.

It is no good.

May they go away.

912 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:09:13pm
913 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:09:19pm

re: #909 haakondahl

Feel free to post more of it.

I knew you cared.

914 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:09:37pm

re: #908 opnion

Don'y you think that they solicited kindred spirits?

I was being sarcastic again.

915 Yankee Zionist  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:09:40pm

I looked at the list of people who signed the document. I am shocked by some of the other signatures. These are some fairly prominent people. Michelle Shocked for instance. Michael Lerner for another. And Rosemary Radford Ruether. Boston City Councilor Chuck Turner -- all names I recognize from other contexts. Then there is David Ray Griffin, author of the book published by Westminster John Knox Press that asserted the 9/11 was a false flag operation.

These are all people who are in the public sphere, who protect their reputations and make explicit decisions about who they affiliate with.

Is there anyone else on that list who has denied having signed it, who has said their name was added to the list without their approval?

If there were, I'd have an easier time believing Van Jones' name was put on the list fraudulently.

I know Charles has argued that Truthers lie and make this stuff up. But if he is the first guy to complain, and only complained a few years after the fact, I'd have a tough time believing he didn't sign it. I'm having a tough time believing his denial. Apparently, his name has been on the list for five years, and this is his first denial,

I think he signed the statement.

916 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:09:46pm

re: #905 EmmmieG

Wow. You type fast. Really, really fast. How did you post 1,000 times in a half-hour on that one press-conference thread?

That's just how eeevil I am. The true depths of my diabolical abilities would stun the world.

917 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:10:02pm

re: #887 Desert Dog

Yes, the NYT is the finest birdcage liner going. Do you really believe this stuff?

Considering the other fish-wrap out there, yes. Their editorial is far left, but the reporting is killer bee. And beautifully written.

918 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:10:04pm

re: #889 Pingemi

It just hit me that you might not have noticed my follow up posts because I didn't use the "reply" button on the post I objected to. If you missed my replies in posts #507 and 826 that might be my bad as this is a very busy thread.

If you did miss them I request you re-read my post #369 and my follow up posts and request again that you retract your suggestion in comment #380 that I expressed support for the BNP and by implication support the BNP.

Or if you believe that I do support the BNP and am in fact a fascist I'd prefer that you expressly say so.

For gibberish, press 1.
For English, press 2.

919 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:10:10pm

Hey Night Lizards!

I don't know about this whole Van Jones thing. I keep having these mental images of Van Johnson doing something with the stock exchange. I can't reconcile the problem.

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

920 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:10:24pm

re: #913 Coracle

I knew you cared.

I can't quit you.

921 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:10:39pm

re: #912 HelloDare

All of Charles' sock puppets exposed.

There's Stinky in the bottom right corner! busted.

922 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:10:42pm

re: #914 Walter L. Newton

I was being sarcastic again.


Damn, I hate it when I miss it.

923 calcajun  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:10:57pm

re: #892 solomonpanting

Welcome to the digital age.

Post-digital, to be precise. Of course, we won't knuckle under to this abuse.

924 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:11:12pm

re: #896 JarHeadLifer

You should email me. I've got some real estate you might be interested in.

Nice you didn't quote the next sentence.

Agenda!!

925 realwest  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:11:13pm

re: #891 austin_blue
Ah, see I didn't see that the "president" of China was making a state visit - maybe we BOTH ought to go back to Killian's post #418 and read the report from the China Paper and see where it says that.

926 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:11:13pm

re: #879 austin_blue

But the Right Wing bloviators, over the past several years, have been barking about *what* was published, not about its truth.

I do seem to recall getting a tad upset with them when they published an illustrated article that pointed out the vulnerable points in the Army's body armor. I felt that was just a little irresponsible.

Could be because my oldest son was in Iraq wearing that armor.

Yes, I was unhappy about that article.

927 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:11:14pm

re: #905 EmmmieG

Wow. You type fast. Really, really fast. How did you post 1,000 times in a half-hour on that one press-conference thread?

You know the million monkey bit. Charles does it with hamsters.

928 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:11:14pm

re: #915 Yankee Zionist

I looked at the list of people who signed the document. I am shocked by some of the other signatures. These are some fairly prominent people. Michelle Shocked for instance. Michael Lerner for another. And Rosemary Radford Ruether. Boston City Councilor Chuck Turner -- all names I recognize from other contexts. Then there is David Ray Griffin, author of the book published by Westminster John Knox Press that asserted the 9/11 was a false flag operation.

These are all people who are in the public sphere, who protect their reputations and make explicit decisions about who they affiliate with.

Is there anyone else on that list who has denied having signed it, who has said their name was added to the list without their approval?

If there were, I'd have an easier time believing Van Jones' name was put on the list fraudulently.

I know Charles has argued that Truthers lie and make this stuff up. But if he is the first guy to complain, and only complained a few years after the fact, I'd have a tough time believing he didn't sign it. I'm having a tough time believing his denial. Apparently, his name has been on the list for five years, and this is his first denial,

I think he signed the statement.

No kidding!

929 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:11:25pm

re: #859 Slumbering Behemoth

Bullshit. Calling someone an idiot is not grounds for a violent reaction. Saying it is is simply stupid.


I wasn't there and I didn't see it but if one person rushes up to a stranger, gets right in their face and starts screaming/yelling at them, that is considered an assault and hitting them may not be out of legal bounds as long as that person felt personally threatened.

Merely walking up to someone and calling them an idiot isn't grounds for a physical response.

930 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:11:40pm

re: #837 DrNaughty

I do enjoy and support the Thrashers except when the Flyers come to Atlanta. but my sports heart belongs to the Phillies... I only go to the Braves games when they are in town.

Phillies going to the WS this year?

931 gulfloafer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:11:46pm

re: #912 HelloDare
American Thinker has a sock puppet cartoon today as well.

932 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:12:14pm

When Charles created me as his sock puppet he lost control of me to Skynet.
Bwahahahahaha

933 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:12:14pm

re: #930 Flyers1974

Phillies going to the WS this year?

They are going to win it..

934 The False God  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:12:17pm

re: #891 austin_blue

This isn't for a state visit. This is for celebrating the founding of a nation by non-state groups. Think the PRC will celebrate our 300 years? If we're even around, of course...

I don't like it. An American flag should fly. Not any other. Not even of a real ally.

935 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:12:35pm

re: #915 Yankee Zionist

I looked at the list of people who signed the document. I am shocked by some of the other signatures. These are some fairly prominent people. Michelle Shocked for instance. Michael Lerner for another. And Rosemary Radford Ruether. Boston City Councilor Chuck Turner -- all names I recognize from other contexts. Then there is David Ray Griffin, author of the book published by Westminster John Knox Press that asserted the 9/11 was a false flag operation.

And that doesn't make you question the circumstances? You'd rather believe the Truthers?

936 RightOnTheLeftCoast  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:12:37pm

re: #637 Charles

I don't agree. Zombie was not correct in this one. There is absolutely no evidence that Van Jones is a 9/11 Truther, apart from his name being listed on a Truther website.

None.

Certainly the word of Troofers isn't worth the proverbial bucket of warm spit as a source.

However, Zombie did allude to first-hand observations of Jones at Troofer events... perhaps an offline communication with Zombie might be in order to get a feel for the nature of said observations? If nothing else, it would be a source that isn't quoting or referencing the untrustable troofer site.

937 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:12:52pm

re: #894 Charles

I resent being called a dismal asskisser!

938 slokat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:13:00pm

I am not a sock puppet!

...as if there was any doubt.

939 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:13:03pm

re: #921 FrogMarch

There's Stinky in the bottom right corner! busted.

You mean, this guy?

940 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:13:04pm

re: #916 Charles

That's just how eeevil I am. The true depths of my diabolical abilities would stun the world.

Richard L Kent accused me of being you. But then, he does that with just about everyone.

941 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:13:16pm

re: #917 austin_blue

Considering the other fish-wrap out there, yes. Their editorial is far left, but the reporting is killer bee. And beautifully written.

Their reporting is well written, but it also slants to the left more than a certain Tower in Pisa...but, almost all print media does, so why should they be different?

942 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:13:22pm

re: #906 calcajun

It's all fun and games until my foot goes up your ass.

-Veronica Mars

Great show. I hope they make a Veronica Mars movie, as Kirstin Bell really had a great character in Veronica.

943 DrNaughty  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:13:28pm

re: #937 Van Helsing

I resent being called a dismal asskisser!

Hate mail does tend to have colorful phrases in it...

944 solomonpanting  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:13:41pm

re: #906 calcajun

It's all fun and games until my foot goes up your ass.

-Veronica Mars

Sorta puts "ass kicking" in a new light, or not, since that's where the sun don't shine.

945 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:13:56pm

re: #914 Walter L. Newton

I was being sarcastic again.

You know Walter, sarc tags work.

946 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:14:01pm

re: #936 RightOnTheLeftCoast

Certainly the word of Troofers isn't worth the proverbial bucket of warm spit as a source.

However, Zombie did allude to first-hand observations of Jones at Troofer events... perhaps an offline communication with Zombie might be in order to get a feel for the nature of said observations? If nothing else, it would be a source that isn't quoting or referencing the untrustable troofer site.

Zombie said he was a hard leftist, not that he was a troofer. I am inclined to believe Zombie, although I would be disinclined to believe the troofers, especially if this is the only piece of evidence.

947 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:14:30pm

re: #936 RightOnTheLeftCoast

Certainly the word of Troofers isn't worth the proverbial bucket of warm spit as a source.

However, Zombie did allude to first-hand observations of Jones at Troofer events... perhaps an offline communication with Zombie might be in order to get a feel for the nature of said observations? If nothing else, it would be a source that isn't quoting or referencing the untrustable troofer site.

We know how much Zombie lies here and on the Zombie blog. Zombie can't be trusted.
///

948 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:14:33pm

re: #935 Charles

And that doesn't make you question the circumstances? You'd rather believe the Truthers?

The Bad Craziness has spread to LGF! Please, Charles, make it stop!

949 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:14:36pm
950 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:14:40pm

re: #894 Charles

Here's a classic in the hate mail genre:

You're all my sock puppets! Bwahahaha! There's only one person here in reality!

Well, that explains all the lint around here and the fact that my other half is lost in either the dryer or the washing machine...

951 FrogMarch  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:14:47pm

re: #939 HelloDare

You mean, this guy?

yeah!

952 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:14:56pm

re: #945 CyanSnowHawk

You know Walter, sarc tags work.

Not as well when I am trying to make a point.

953 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:15:15pm

re: #936 RightOnTheLeftCoast

However, Zombie did allude to first-hand observations of Jones at Troofer events...

No, zombie did not say that.

954 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:15:27pm

re: #937 Van Helsing

I resent being called a dismal asskisser!

Yes, you are an incredible asskisser!

955 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:15:34pm

re: #852 Charles

but it's entirely possible this petition was presented as an innocuous call for more investigations into the 9/11 attacks -- specifically to get people to sign on who would otherwise turn and run if they knew the true agenda.

There are two possibilities, either he signed it or someone else signed his name to it without him knowing.

Now if he signed it, then I don't think it matters much how the petition was specifically worded. Its no secret the wild conspiracies that were sprouting back then and what the motivation behind the petition was. If the guy had any sense at all he would have stayed a mile away from that garbage. He gets no free pass for saying he didn't realize what it was.

956 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:15:43pm

OFFS!

957 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:15:47pm

re: #946 EmmmieG

Zombie said he was a hard leftist, not that he was a troofer. I am inclined to believe Zombie, although I would be disinclined to believe the troofers, especially if this is the only piece of evidence.

Given that there was no hint of Trooferism in the STORM summation pdf, it's likely the troofers are not telling the truth.

958 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:15:50pm

re: #899 opnion

I'll see your bullshit. In your rant, you conveniently neglect to factor in that the thug got in an elderly mans face, real close up & threatening.
You willfully just ignore that. That is assault, you might not like that , but that is not relevant, so you post is just bullshit.

Blah blah blah. It is not assault to call someone an idiot, even yelling it in their face. You are excusing a violent attacker and placing the blame on the attacked. You sound like a loony liberal.

959 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:15:51pm

re: #947 Walter L. Newton

We know how much Zombie lies here and on the Zombie blog. Zombie can't be trusted.
///


Walter, you're hitting homers. Spot on!

960 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:16:09pm

re: #955 Mich-again

There are two possibilities, either he signed it or someone else signed his name to it without him knowing.

Now if he signed it, then I don't think it matters much how the petition was specifically worded. Its no secret the wild conspiracies that were sprouting back then and what the motivation behind the petition was. If the guy had any sense at all he would have stayed a mile away from that garbage. He gets no free pass for saying he didn't realize what it was.

No kidding.

961 Coracle  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:16:14pm

All right kiddieos. I need some shuteye. Everyone keep their fingers and toes inside the windows.

962 Alberta Oil Peon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:16:38pm

re: #659 Charles

Correct, GWB did utter similar sentiments. One really wouldn't expect a President of the USA to implicitly condone vigilantism by not making a pro-forma statement urging Americans to treat their Arab minority with dignity and restraint, would one?

It's the purpose behind the statements, and the sincerity of the statements wherein the difference lies. GWB sincerely did not want to see a bloodbath of useless reprisal attacks against Arab-Americans take place on his watch, and indeed, none did occur.

Van Jones, who at that time at least, was a Marxist activist, probably did not give a fat rat's patoot about the welfare of Arab-Americans, aside from the potential that existed to turn them into dependent clients by stoking fears of reprisal attacks. It's what Marxists do.

963 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:16:48pm

re: #959 opnion

Walter, you're hitting homers. Spot on!

Sure, homers -- except that zombie never said he saw Van Jones at Truther events.

Oops. Foul ball down the left field line.

964 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:16:49pm

re: #949 USCMSNE

Are you suggesting that Van Jones is not accountable for his signature. Why defend him? This excuse is pathetic.

Are you accountable for your signature if I choose to sign you up to some petition without your knowledge ?

965 Ojoe  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:17:44pm

re: #941 Desert Dog

If you walk half way around the tower of Pisa it will then lean to the right.

Anyway they have recently corrected its lean to a safe tilt by taking, under great control, small amounts of soil from under the uphill side, by drilling down laterally from a distance.

966 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:17:50pm

I'm still wondering about Gadfly (Khadaffi-or whatever). I used to think the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. Now, I think that definition may be Ghadaffy.

967 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:17:52pm

re: #954 Desert Dog

Yes, you are an incredible asskisser!

Thank you!
I've always believed in the statement 'Be cautious of the toes you step on today. They may be attached to the ass you'll have to kiss tomorrow'.

968 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:17:53pm

Much morewill be revealed about Jones. People are scouring old tapes etc. For instance his anticipatory racism was revealed here today by Kenneth finding some old STORM link. I don't think we need to worry about how this chip will fall in the next few days.

969 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:18:32pm

re: #947 Walter L. Newton

We know how much Zombie lies here and on the Zombie blog. Zombie can't be trusted.
///

What about, you know, being wrong?

970 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:18:37pm

“You touched that god damned biscuit. Bullshit, I saw you touch it….I don’t give a shit about your evidence, this isn’t a court of law."
about 7 hours ago from web

(shitmydadsays)

971 Syrah  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:18:49pm

Yep.

It is a full moon.

972 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:18:58pm

re: #926 Van Helsing

I do seem to recall getting a tad upset with them when they published an illustrated article that pointed out the vulnerable points in the Army's body armor. I felt that was just a little irresponsible.

Could be because my oldest son was in Iraq wearing that armor.

Yes, I was unhappy about that article.

And yet, what was the result? Upgraded armor, occurring only because the DOD was shamed into fulfilling its promises.

Damn the NYT for helping to protect our troops! The rat bastards!

973 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:19:03pm

re: #965 Ojoe

If you walk half way around the tower of Pisa it will then lean to the right.

Anyway they have recently corrected its lean to a safe tilt by taking, under great control, small amounts of soil from under the uphill side, by drilling down laterally from a distance.

If you drink enough Chianti, it looks pretty darn straight too!

I was impressed by just how far it tilts when I saw it. I was almost waiting for it to fall over.

974 realwest  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:19:07pm

Well I'm outta here y'all - just waaay to ill to stick around and watch some people just make shit up.
Hope you all have a great night - and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.

Good night, all.

975 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:19:14pm

re: #958 Slumbering Behemoth

Blah blah blah. It is not assault to call someone an idiot, even yelling it in their face. You are excusing a violent attacker and placing the blame on the attacked. You sound like a loony liberal.


And you sound like an ignoramous. It is a legal principal.
If you get close up into someone's face , taking away their space, they may reasonably feel in danger. That is assault & you can toss insults all night & nothing changes that.

976 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:19:35pm

re: #974 realwest

Good luck to you.

977 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:19:40pm

re: #968 pat

Much morewill be revealed about Jones. People are scouring old tapes etc. For instance his anticipatory racism was revealed here today by Kenneth finding some old STORM link. I don't think we need to worry about how this chip will fall in the next few days.

Could be a lot of disappointed people in the end.

978 cronus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:19:47pm

Good night Lizards

Prediction for the AM:

1) Jones admits to signing the petition.
2) Claims the context in which it was presented led him to believe it was something other than what it actually was.
3) Produces other past statements/letters he signed on to in which 9-11 is clearly referred to as a "terrorist attack"
4) Resigns so as not to be a "further distraction to the President"

On the lighter side:

@JonHenke: Maybe Van Jones thought he was signing the 7-11 Truth petition. I don't buy the official story on those rottisserie dogs, either.
979 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:19:53pm

re: #965 Ojoe

If you walk half way around the tower of Pisa it will then lean to the right.

Anyway they have recently corrected its lean to a safe tilt by taking, under great control, small amounts of soil from under the uphill side, by drilling down laterally from a distance.

Won't work on Obama. He keeps moving.

980 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:20:30pm

re: #772 HelloDare

Van Jones was a signatory of this press release back in 2002. It calls 9-11 a terrorist attack.


A separate post at the top of the page demands an inquiry into 9-11, but Van Jones nor anyone else is listed a party to that.

Gee, you should have posted more of the press release...it's very entertaining and enlightening:

The world's most powerful nation has mercilessly bombed Afghanistan and is installing a neo-colonial government of its own choosing, although that country has never attacked the U.S. Millions of Afghans have been displaced and face starvation this winter. The administration has also green-lighted massive Israeli assaults on Palestine, and it threatens to attack Iraq, Lebanon, Somalia, and other countries. The agenda seems clear: to remake the world in the rightwing image with little regard for human consequences.

No, they're not complete flakes and nuts like the truthers./

Wait... there's more:

At home, we are seeing a wholesale attack on constitutionally guaranteed civil liberties, especially those of immigrants and other people of color. The administration has institutionalized racial profiling and is secretly rounding up thousands of Arab Americans and other people of Middle Eastern background. At the same time, it is giving billions to the military, offering huge bailouts and tax incentives to corporations and the wealthy while ignoring the hundreds of thousands of laid off workers, and cutting social services. All in all, we face a second, different kind of war, a domestic war, in which longstanding racism and inequity are multiplying. Both form part of a long-range strategy to turn the clock back on past gains and consolidate U.S. global domination.

Is this supposed to show us the rational side of Van Jones? Because seriously... after reading the entire thing, "Truther" isn't any great leap from the crazy he's peddling.

981 USCMSNE  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:20:36pm

re: #953 Charles

No, zombie did not say that.

Post 293

982 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:20:42pm

re: #972 austin_blue

And yet, what was the result? Upgraded armor, occurring only because the DOD was shamed into fulfilling its promises.

Damn the NYT for helping to protect our troops! The rat bastards!

Still, austin, the article did give snipers aiming points and that was not a good thing. I'd say that you could argue that case either way and still be defensible.

983 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:20:44pm

re: #975 opnion

And you sound like an ignoramous. It is a legal principal.
If you get close up into someone's face , taking away their space, they may reasonably feel in danger. That is assault & you can toss insults all night & nothing changes that.

Were you there? Did you see what happened?

What? No?

Then how are you so certain about the sequence of events?

984 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:20:47pm

re: #890 Jimmah

Yep. That's kind of how Richard Dawkins ended up appearing in a movie promoting creationism/id.

Yep. I think that might be the same one that lied to PZ Myers to get him in it too.

985 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:21:11pm

re: #958 Slumbering Behemoth

Blah blah blah. It is not assault to call someone an idiot, even yelling it in their face.

You're coming in pretty strong there for someone who is wrong. Tell that to the Sheriff in Mayberry.

986 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:21:19pm

re: #963 Charles

Sure, homers -- except that zombie never said he saw Van Jones at Truther events.

Oops. Foul ball down the left field line.


I think that if you check it he did. He said that he was there , But if he went further that he could expose himself. Homer!

987 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:21:46pm

re: #963 Charles

Sure, homers -- except that zombie never said he saw Van Jones at Truther events.

Oops. Foul ball down the left field line.

Walter didn't say that. # 936 RightOnTheLeftCoast did.

988 Ojoe  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:21:52pm

re: #973 Desert Dog

It's CG has to get beyond the middle third of its base for it to fall (the "kern point").

989 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:22:02pm

re: #977 Walter L. Newton

Could be. I already know he was a commie clown. I do not think he is a criminal or anything. Americans elected a socialist for President. Jones may be just another. His green jobs BS is economic nonsense, though. What is his degree in? Anyone know.

990 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:22:11pm

re: #978 cronus

Good night Lizards

Prediction for the AM:

1) Jones admits to signing the petition.
2) Claims the context in which it was presented led him to believe it was something other than what it actually was.
3) Produces other past statements/letters he signed on to in which 9-11 is clearly referred to as a "terrorist attack"
4) Resigns so as not to be a "further distraction to the President"

On the lighter side:

"It wasn't the petition I knew."

"I may have misled my hand with that pen"

991 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:22:32pm

re: #981 USCMSNE

Post 293

OK. And if I said I saw Van Jones at George W. Bush rallies, cheering wildly, but I couldn't prove it because my life would be in danger, you'd believe that too?

992 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:23:10pm

re: #947 Walter L. Newton

We know how much Zombie lies here and on the Zombie blog. Zombie can't be trusted.
///

I don't trust zombie. Too often these days I find him to be dangerously close to the Pamela Geller/ Glenn Beck type hysterics. That whole Holdren piece, for example - just woeful.

993 USCMSNE  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:23:12pm

re: #964 Bagua

Are you accountable for your signature if I choose to sign you up to some petition without your knowledge ?

He admits to signing it.

994 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:23:20pm

I had not seen post 293. (There were 800 posts when I signed on.)

995 MacDuff  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:23:45pm

It seems that the whole point of the Left is to vitually forget what THEY said, or wrote in the past. Nonetheless, they continue to bludgeoon their opposition for the same indescretions.

These lyrics from Fleetwood Mac sum up their thinking:

"Don't stop, thinking about tomorrow
Don't stop, it'll soon be here,It'll be, better than before,
Yesterday's gone, yesterday's gone."

Not-so-coincidentally, you may recall that this was Bill Clinton's theme song.

While I embrace accountability, I abhor double standards.

996 gulfloafer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:24:01pm

re: #988 Ojoe

Take a wild guess. Wait for it ... Yale Law

997 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:24:09pm

re: #983 Charles

Were you there? Did you see what happened?

What? No?

Then how are you so certain about the sequence of events?

Alright the facts are in dispute. I wasn't there & you weren't, but when peole say that the old guy had it coming they are making a factual judgement.

998 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:24:15pm

re: #972 austin_blue

And yet, what was the result? Upgraded armor, occurring only because the DOD was shamed into fulfilling its promises.

Damn the NYT for helping to protect our troops! The rat bastards!

The front and back plates are about the only thing (according to my son, 11B direct fire, infantry - sometimes called bullet sponge) that the troops will wear because THEY NEED TO BE ABLE TO F***ING MOVE! The gorget, sideplates and codpiece add about 15lbs MORE to a combat loadout that already pushes 75lbs!

999 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:24:18pm

re: #972 austin_blue

And yet, what was the result? Upgraded armor, occurring only because the DOD was shamed into fulfilling its promises.

Damn the NYT for helping to protect our troops! The rat bastards!

Yes, the NYT led the way rallying the troops! I cannot believe you site them for supporting the troops. I would guess the armor bits were more of a way to "zap" Bush. When you write story after story calling our soldiers animals and criminals, you are not being supportive. When you write stories that are supposed to be "hard news" items that look like they belong in the editorial section about how bad the war is going, how it is lost, how our plan is bad, you are not being supportive. The NYT gave the enemies shooting at our boys hope, encouragement and a reason to keep fighting. FU*K the NYT.

1000 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:24:28pm

re: #991 Charles

OK. And if I said I saw Van Jones at George W. Bush rallies, cheering wildly, but I couldn't prove it because my life would be in danger, you'd believe that too?

Until I see proof- it's an unsubstantiated claim, period.

1001 tradewind  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:24:36pm
He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition.


Oh, snap.
Must have been another one of Karl's dirty trix.
Rove, you magnificent bastard!

1002 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:24:46pm

re: #776 Killian Bundy

It's not part of a State visit. It's granting a petition by Chinese groups to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the PRC.

/not something I like to see the White House getting down with, given Chinese communist history

Well,"flag gate" is spreading, it's not just on the Birch web site now, it's spread to dozens of right wing blogs. What started as a Chinese/American party for a 1000 or so, is now yet another trivial issue to waste time on.

1003 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:24:58pm

re: #982 Dark_Falcon

Still, austin, the article did give snipers aiming points and that was not a good thing. I'd say that you could argue that case either way and still be defensible.

My God, man, didn't you think thy knew that? Why do you think so many of our kids were getting punched? It's not like their snipes weren't talking to each other!

1004 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:25:04pm

re: #993 USCMSNE

He admits to signing it.

Good grief, read the link you posted, he clearly denies having signed it.

1005 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:25:13pm

re: #975 opnion

And you sound like an ignoramous. It is a legal principal.
If you get close up into someone's face , taking away their space, they may reasonably feel in danger. That is assault & you can toss insults all night & nothing changes that.

If there was no threat of violence, then it's not assault. There was name calling, but no threats, so your argument that it was assault is bogus.

But please, continue to defend the attacker. If you think that doesn't make you sound like a loony liberal (and an ignoramus), then I don't know what to tell you.

1006 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:25:26pm

re: #988 Ojoe

It's CG has to get beyond the middle third of its base for it to fall (the "kern point").

Over my head, I will take your word for it! :-)

1007 calcajun  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:25:30pm

re: #916 Charles

That's just how eeevil I am. The true depths of my diabolical abilities would stun the world.

If you are all powerful, why then are you unable to escape from this website of ultimate darkness?///

(see Time Bandits)

1008 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:25:31pm

re: #993 USCMSNE

That was available this morning. I had assumed we are having this discussion because Jones denied signing this or being a truther. As if being a Chavez applauder is not enough.

1009 Ziggy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:25:58pm

re: #930 Flyers1974

Phillies going to the WS this year?

1010 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:26:04pm

re: #980 Wendya

Is this supposed to show us the rational side of Van Jones? Because seriously... after reading the entire thing, "Truther" isn't any great leap from the crazy he's peddling.

Jeez. My post was simply showing that he signed something that said the 9-11 attack was a terrorist event. All that other stuff is no surprise to somebody who knows Van Jones background. He is a far left loon. There is no debate about that. At least not from me.

1011 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:26:06pm

re: #985 Mich-again

You're coming in pretty strong there for someone who is wrong. Tell that to the Sheriff in Mayberry.

How am I wrong?

1012 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:26:07pm

re: #997 opnion

Alright the facts are in dispute. I wasn't there & you weren't, but when peole say that the old guy had it coming they are making a factual judgement.

Mr. Missing Pinky admitted on national television that he punched the guy in the face twice, with no physical provocation. I don't know why this is so hard for some people to grasp.

He admitted that he assaulted the guy for no reason except that he was being shouted at.

1013 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:26:16pm

re: #992 Jimmah

Too often these days I find him to be dangerously close to the Pamela Geller/ Glenn Beck type hysterics.

Thats ridiculous.

1014 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:26:24pm

re: #999 Desert Dog

The NYT gave the enemies shooting at our boys hope, encouragement and a reason to keep fighting. FU*K the NYT.

Damn straight!

1015 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:26:31pm

re: #972 austin_blue

And yet, what was the result? Upgraded armor, occurring only because the DOD was shamed into fulfilling its promises.

Damn the NYT for helping to protect our troops! The rat bastards!

Ooh, protect the troops by publicly putting them in danger!

/warped LLL logic

1016 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:26:56pm
1017 tradewind  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:26:58pm

re: #1004 Bagua
Huh?

UPDATE: A response was provided to reporters Thursday evening. In it, Mr. Jones apologized for signing the statement

1018 calcajun  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:27:02pm

re: #974 realwest

Well I'm outta here y'all - just waaay to ill to stick around and watch some people just make shit up.
Hope you all have a great night - and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.

Good night, all.

..and come from a lawyer and law professor, that's gotta sting./

1019 USCMSNE  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:27:24pm

re: #1004 Bagua

Good grief, read the link you posted, he clearly denies having signed it.

Good grief?!?!

In it, Mr. Jones apologized for signing the statement and said he doesn't feel that way today and never has had such thoughts, although the 911Truth group claims to have personally confirmed support from all of their signers.

Same link.

1020 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:27:37pm

Please. Don't post links to rense.com.

1021 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:27:44pm

re: #992 Jimmah

I don't trust zombie. Too often these days I find him to be dangerously close to the Pamela Geller/ Glenn Beck type hysterics. That whole Holdren piece, for example - just woeful.

Help me understand. Holdren didn't write those words?

1022 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:28:22pm

re: #1019 USCMSNE

Same link.

The Washington Times is lying again. He did NOT "apologize for signing the statement." Read what I posted above.

1023 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:28:25pm

re: #992 Jimmah

I don't trust zombie. Too often these days I find him to be dangerously close to the Pamela Geller/ Glenn Beck type hysterics. That whole Holdren piece, for example - just woeful.

What about the Holdren piece was incorrect?

1024 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:28:33pm

re: #1013 Mich-again

Thats ridiculous.

No it's not.

1025 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:28:34pm

Over the course of history, I wonder which will eventually prove to be the more significant event: the Palin - Letterman conflict of a couple months ago or the great pinky caper. It could take decades for the historians to come to any final conclusions I suppose.

1026 Yankee Zionist  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:28:36pm

re: #935 Charles

And that doesn't make you question the circumstances? You'd rather believe the Truthers?

You raise a good point. The problem is that both sources are unreliable.

The Truthers have a long history of making stuff up and Van Jones has a vested interest in denying his signature if he left it.

I guess at this point, what would be the percentage for the Truthers to add his name to the list without his approval? What would be the gain? His name was not all that recognizable in 2004. If his name was added without his approval, presumably he would have complained and undermined the credibility of the petition.

Yes, this is getting weird, but on the issue related to Van Jones' signature, I believe the Truthers.

1027 calcajun  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:28:37pm

re: #1020 Charles

Please. Don't post links to rense.com.

Lather, rense, repeat?

1028 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:28:51pm

re: #1017 tradewind

Huh?

Read the actual quotation of VJ's words, not the reporters opinion.

1029 JacksonTn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:29:02pm

re: #992 Jimmah

I don't trust zombie. Too often these days I find him to be dangerously close to the Pamela Geller/ Glenn Beck type hysterics. That whole Holdren piece, for example - just woeful.

Jimmah ... I don't care if I get banned for this ... but you are a fucking asshole for saying that ... a real fucking asshole ...

and really now goodnight ...

1030 Edge  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:29:14pm

re: #903 Charles

LOL. You've tapped danced around my question. Are you saying none of the people who signed that petition signed that petition? Or was it just Van Jones (executive director, Ella Baker Center for Human Rights) who got unlucky?

1031 Alberta Oil Peon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:29:20pm

re: #739 austin_blue

I recollect differently. Two convenience store owners within a mile of my house had to post signs on their doors saying that that they condemned the attacks. They were American citizens and they loved their country. They just happened to be Pakistanis at birth. There was intimidation all over the place. Ugly.

Yes, there certainly was suspicion. And chatter. And boycotts of some Muslim-owned businesses. But widespread attacks? Or violence? Practically none.

I'm sure that a diligent search would turn up an instance or two of violence directed against Arab-Americans as a reprisal for 9/11. But there never was any kind of anti-Arab pogrom, or anything remotely approaching it.

1032 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:29:22pm

re: #1004 Bagua

Good grief, read the link you posted, he clearly denies having signed it.

From that very same story...

UPDATE: A response was provided to reporters Thursday evening. In it, Mr. Jones apologized for signing the statement and said he doesn't feel that way today and never has had such thoughts, although the 911Truth group claims to have personally confirmed support from all of their signers.

He signed it. Other reporters (including Jake Tapper) are telling the same story - that late Thursday night and in a statement released to the WH press pool, Jones admits to having signed it, but he claims he didn't know what he was signing.

1033 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:29:33pm

re: #992 Jimmah

I don't trust zombie. Too often these days I find him to be dangerously close to the Pamela Geller/ Glenn Beck type hysterics. That whole Holdren piece, for example - just woeful.

If its between you and Zombie, Jimmah, I'll stand with Zombie.

1034 RightOnTheLeftCoast  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:29:43pm

re: #953 Charles

No, zombie did not say that.

I was referring to this post:


re: #293 zombie

I don't see how. The document places Jones at the cusp of Trutherism; it's not such a stretch to see how he could take the extra half-step to signing that petition (or allowing his name to be put on it).

I never imagined this issue would grow so huge. I have personal knowledge about Jones that I'm loathe to reveal in public which puts him all over the truther scene and other bizarre conspiracy scenes. I don't know about this petition specifically, but I have with my own eyes seen Jones at Truther events. Problem is, I can't prove it - at least without exposing myself. So I will remain mute on the subject.


Unless there's some subtlety to Zombie's phrasing there that I'm just not getting, that indicates observation of Jones, and perhaps other info that ties him to the troofers. Would it hurt to touch base with Zombie for more info?

1035 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:29:58pm

re: #1023 Wendya

What about the Holdren piece was incorrect?

The spin that was applied to it? It was a hypothetical debate among academics- they do that sort of thing.

1036 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:30:03pm

re: #1011 Slumbering Behemoth

How am I wrong?

Yelling and screaming in someone's face can be assault if it is deemed threatening. So try your luck with the testing the boundary of what is legal and what some policeman would charge you with assault for. Especially when it comes to he said, she said.

1037 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:30:03pm

re: #1030 Edge

LOL. You've tapped danced around my question. Are you saying none of the people who signed that petition signed that petition? Or was it just Van Jones (executive director, Ella Baker Center for Human Rights) who got unlucky?

I'm saying that Truthers lie. But apparently, you'd prefer to believe them in this case.

1038 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:31:02pm

re: #1002 avanti

Well,"flag gate" is spreading, it's not just on the Birch web site now, it's spread to dozens of right wing blogs. What started as a Chinese/American party for a 1000 or so, is now yet another trivial issue to waste time on.

/hey, the White House could have just done the smart thing in the first place and said no to hosting a birthday party for communist China, they didn't need to put their stamp of approval on it

1039 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:31:03pm

re: #1005 Slumbering Behemoth

If there was no threat of violence, then it's not assault. There was name calling, but no threats, so your argument that it was assault is bogus.

But please, continue to defend the attacker. If you think that doesn't make you sound like a loony liberal (and an ignoramus), then I don't know what to tell you.

I'm not taking a side: Legal speak

The linked definition indicates that IF there is a verbal threat and the spewer of said threat is close enough to follow through, that can be considered assault.

1040 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:31:09pm

re: #1030 Edge

Enjoy tap dancing out the door. Mocking Charles is stupid, and tends to put one's account at risk.

1041 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:31:11pm

re: #1021 unrealizedviewpoint

Help me understand. Holdren didn't write those words?

It was a hypothetical discussion!

1042 Pingemi  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:31:13pm

re: #918 haakondahl

Ok here is English one more time:

In comment 369 I suggested that Jones' statements seemed disingenuous and tried to point out that just because one might not like Jones' opponents that doesn't mean Jones is right, one example I used follows:

The BNP for example is a bunch of racists and you have been right to go after them, but that doesn't mean that Radical Islam is not a threat, it just means that their solution is almost as bad as the problem. The statements: "BNP are a bunch of racists" and "Radical Islam is a danger to civilized society" are not mutually exclusive.

In comment 380 Charles suggested that this was support for the BNP.

I expressed my resentment in comment 507 and said in part:

Radical Islam is a danger as you have amply documented over the years that I've been reading you. If you made the statement "Radical Islam is a danger" to the BNP they would agree with it but that doesn't make them any less a bunch of racist fascists. That's not a statement of support for the BNP. that's a simple fact. I was simply illustrating the "anti-anti" example.

I respectfully request that you retract your suggestion that I support the BNP or expressed support for them.

(anti-anti is explained in comment 369).

I then repeated my request in comments #644, #826 and #889 and have yet to get satisfaction from Charles who made the statement which I consider a slur on me, I think any proper person would resent the suggestion that they support a Racist organization like the BNP.

Plain enough English?

I would have a much easier time believing Van Jones if he was as outraged over the suggestion that he signed the Truther statement as I am over this.

1043 Flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:31:23pm

re: #1009 Ziggy

I think so.

1044 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:31:26pm

re: #1032 JarHeadLifer

He signed it. Other reporters (including Jake Tapper) are telling the same story - that late Thursday night and in a statement released to the WH press pool, Jones admits to having signed it, but he claims he didn't know what he was signing.

Again, you are quoting what the reporter wrote, reporters are often wrong, lazy or lying. Mr. Jones made a statement that did not admit signing the fool petition. You are not understanding my point.

1045 leftover54  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:31:43pm

re: #325 slokat

Thanks for that link. I believe the guy is totally sincere and committed - and that scares the sh*t out of me ! I expect this BS from the average Olbermann fan - not from someone that has the ear of the POTUS. A 'mia culpa' but it's not. I'm still confused and not sure what the hell I just read ! There's some 'deep sh*t' going on in that head - twisted deep sh*t.
Bush is the devil, I'm no better but hey,at least 'I'm one of you" so lets get busy ... and I'd be honored to lead. WTF ?

1046 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:31:54pm

re: #1032 JarHeadLifer

He signed it. Other reporters (including Jake Tapper) are telling the same story - that late Thursday night and in a statement released to the WH press pool, Jones admits to having signed it, but he claims he didn't know what he was signing.

He did NOT "apologize for signing the statement." This is what he said:

Jones also said in his statement that “In recent days some in the news media have reported on past statements I made before I joined the administration – some of which were made years ago. If I have offended anyone with statements I made in the past, I apologize.”

The Washington Times is lying.

1047 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:32:21pm

re: #1012 Charles

Mr. Missing Pinky admitted on national television that he punched the guy in the face twice, with no physical provocation. I don't know why this is so hard for some people to grasp.

People don't want to hear facts that contradict their unsubstantiated biases, and will engage in Herculean efforts of pretzel logic to justify the defense of a violent act.

1048 MJ  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:32:31pm

San Francisco March To
Demand Congressional
Inquiry Of 911

The delegation will demand that these questions (and others) be raised and answered publicly-

Who created, trained and funded the Al Qaeda Network? What is the relationship between Bin Laden, his family and the Bush family and the Carlyle Group? Why were no fighter planes dispatched to intercept the four hijacked planes on September 11h , in violation of standard procedures? Who actually was in control of the "hijacked planes"? What is the U.S. relationship with Pakistan, and especially with its intelligence service, the ISI? Why did the then director of the ISI have $100,000 transferred to the man whom the FBI now calls the ringleader of the Sept. 11th attacks, and why does the U.S. not pursue this question? Did the CIA have foreknowledge of the attack, who tried to profit with put options on American, United, Merrill Lynch stock just before the attack? Why were the FBI told to not investigate the Bin Laden family links in the US? If the CIA met with Bin Laden last July, why didn't they try to arrest him? If the US is serious about ridding the world of terrorism, why do we continue to fund and train terrorists? Why are we bombing Afghanistan, when none of the alleged bombers actually came from there, could there be another reason for our presence in that region, like oil? Is the war against Afghanistan illegal? What are Bush's, Cheney's and Rice's connections to the oil industry? What are Bush's and Cheney's connections to the drug industry? Why is the evidence being destroyed when an investigation of the World Trade Center collapse is needed? Why seal Presidential records? Why intimidate professors from speaking out against this war? Why has the U.S. military been establishing working relations with the Uzbek military for several years? What other military involvement does the U.S. have in the Central Asian Republics? Why are U.S. military personnel or material assistance going to the Philippines, Indonesia, and Colombia as well? What relationship did various U.S. agencies and their contractors have with the Taliban, either directly or through Pakistani or Saudi agencies or contractors? Why does the U.S. overlook Pakistani drug lords who refine and export half to two-thirds of the world,s heroin despite its avowed determination to rid the world of drugs? Why has the Dept. of Justice stopped its investigation of the Bank of Credit and Commerce International despite its admitted heavy involvement in laundering drug money?

Some of the questions are answered in part in articles posted on the internet, which have been compiled and printed out for Senator Feinstein and her staff , links to the questions and answers are posted at [Link: www.communitycurrency.org...]



Van Jones, national executive director, Ella Baker Center for Human Rights
(among others)

1049 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:32:35pm

re: #1005 Slumbering Behemoth

If there was no threat of violence, then it's not assault. There was name calling, but no threats, so your argument that it was assault is bogus.

But please, continue to defend the attacker. If you think that doesn't make you sound like a loony liberal (and an ignoramus), then I don't know what to tell you.

You know wht, you started the name calling, but so what?
Century's of Common Law is not loony Liberalism & you seem to not want to grasp it.
The issue is would an ordinary reasonable man have felt threatened?
That is an issue for the court, if it goes there.
If I am defending the old guy sans a finger as you say , then you are defending the Move On thug, right?
It is telling that you resorted to insults.

1050 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:32:50pm

re: #1041 Sharmuta

It was a hypothetical discussion!

Oh c'mon? Who the hell sits around having such discussions, then puts it to paper, then publishes it?

1051 RightOnTheLeftCoast  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:33:00pm

re: #1027 calcajun

Lather, rense, repeat?

Linking to rense puts Charles into a lather... please do not repeat!

/ apology in advance for atrocious punning... can't help myself. :D

1052 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:33:00pm

re: #1032 JarHeadLifer

He signed it. Other reporters (including Jake Tapper) are telling the same story - that late Thursday night and in a statement released to the WH press pool, Jones admits to having signed it, but he claims he didn't know what he was signing.

From Tapper's blog:

He did not explain how his name came to be on the petition. A source said Jones did not carefully review the language in the petition before agreeing to add his name.

[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]

1053 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:33:04pm

re: #1020 Charles

Please. Don't post links to rense.com.

Sorry. See my post #772

1054 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:33:08pm

re: #1050 unrealizedviewpoint

Oh c'mon? Who the hell sits around having such discussions, then puts it to paper, then publishes it?

Gee- SCIENTISTS?!

1055 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:33:44pm

According to Fox, Jones did sign it, but disagrees with it.

1056 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:34:00pm

American and Viet flags side by side.

Under the American and Viet flags, President George W. Bush and President Nguyen Minh Triet review the honor guard during the arrival ceremony Friday, Nov. 17, 2006, in Hanoi. White House photo by Shealah Craighead

In Hanoi.

1057 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:34:13pm
1058 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:34:13pm

re: #1013 Mich-again

Thats ridiculous.

Sure - it's ridiculous. That'll be why those sorts of people were all over the story like flies on shite.

1059 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:34:24pm

Akh.

1060 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:34:38pm

re: #1047 Slumbering Behemoth

People don't want to hear facts that contradict their unsubstantiated biases, and will engage in Herculean efforts of pretzel logic to justify the defense of a violent act.

It's really true, all the BDS was disgusting, irrational and intolerable when Bush was president, and now that it is Obama's turn the same people who screamed about the BDS are now leading the charge with the Obama Derangement Syndrome.

1061 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:34:53pm

re: #1044 Bagua

Again, you are quoting what the reporter wrote, reporters are often wrong, lazy or lying. Mr. Jones made a statement that did not admit signing the fool petition. You are not understanding my point.

No. You're not understanding the facts as they exist. Jones issued a statement earlier in the day. That statement has been quoted, in it's entirety. Late tonight (or yesterday if you're on the east coast) the White Press office issued a SECOND statement (that has not yet been quoted in it's entirety). However, multiple reporters who have presumably seen and read the statement are reporting that Jones admits to signing it. READ THE STORIES.

1062 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:34:59pm

re: #1036 Mich-again

Yelling and screaming in someone's face can be assault if it is deemed threatening. So try your luck with the testing the boundary of what is legal and what some policeman would charge you with assault for. Especially when it comes to he said, she said.

I am still not wrong. There has to be a vocalized threat of violence for it to be considered assault. So far as it stands, there were only insults, no threats.

1063 lostlakehiker  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:35:12pm

re: #5 Charles

It's extremely common for 9/11 Truthers, creationists, and anti-AGW groups to add prominent people's names to lists like this without their knowledge.

The puzzle is why Charles Krauthammer sees this as a real story. He's not a Truther. He's level headed and careful.

Something doesn't make sense here. Why would he take up the story unless there was real proof?

1064 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:35:12pm

re: #1036 Mich-again

Yelling and screaming in someone's face can be assault if it is deemed threatening. So try your luck with the testing the boundary of what is legal and what some policeman would charge you with assault for. Especially when it comes to he said, she said.

Bingo! I have been trying to explain that.

1065 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:35:34pm

Approximate flounce.

1066 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:35:44pm

re: #998 Van Helsing

The front and back plates are about the only thing (according to my son, 11B direct fire, infantry - sometimes called bullet sponge) that the troops will wear because THEY NEED TO BE ABLE TO F***ING MOVE! The gorget, sideplates and codpiece add about 15lbs MORE to a combat loadout that already pushes 75lbs!

I don't disagree, but the accusation that the NYT helped the enemy is total BS, The enemy absolutely knew the limitations of the original armor set within weeks. The NYT wasn't reporting anything that was not known by anyone in the theater.

As for your son, bless him for his service. He will be soon be in Afghanistan. The problem is is that the Army added temp fixes to a defensive system that was fundamentally flawed from the beginning. Rather than spend the money for new defensive systems, they are more than willing to pay for BS add-ons. Tragic for your boy. Sad for every grunt put on the ground in Afghanistan.

1067 kateca  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:35:54pm

Has anyone addressed the issue of the czars? It just seems like there are so many. They aren't elected, just people in his inner circle. And over and over again we learn that people in his inner circle have radical beliefs.

Of course the Troofers are a bunch of kooks. At the very least they should produce his signature. If they do, or don't, so what?

The guy has made incredibly racist comments. We know him by his past deeds, and his own words.

And now he's a Czar in the Obama Whithouse. Another fly in the ointment.

1068 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:35:55pm

re: #1035 Sharmuta

It was a hypothetical debate among academics- they do that sort of thing.

Hypothetical debate? Thats an interesting term.

1069 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:36:50pm

re: #1068 Mich-again

Sorry- meant to say discussion.

Are we seriously going to condemn scientists for having hypothetical conversations?

1070 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:37:17pm

re: #1014 ...

I'll be happy to delete your account, just like I did your previous two sock puppets, "Consanescerion," and "TheCork."

Idiot.

1071 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:37:42pm

re: #1068 Mich-again

Hypothetical debate? Thats an interesting term.

Planning would be a better term.

1072 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:38:05pm

re: #1015 Killian Bundy

Ooh, protect the troops by publicly putting them in danger!

/warped LLL logic

A cogent response is at 1106.

1073 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:38:24pm

re: #1048 MJ

Well now that's interesting.

1074 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:38:27pm

re: #1068 Mich-again

Hypothetical debate? Thats an interesting term.

I was under the impression it was a text book, not an ethics debate.

1075 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:38:51pm

re: #1046 Charles

He did NOT "apologize for signing the statement." This is what he said:

True. It was the classic non-apology apology. He never said he was sorry for doing it, only that he was sorry that doing it offended people. Its how all politicians and scoundrels apologize.

1076 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:38:52pm

re: #1067 kateca

Reagan and both Bushes had czars- were we whining then?

1077 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:39:17pm

re: #1075 Mich-again

True. It was the classic non-apology apology. He never said he was sorry for doing it, only that he was sorry that doing it offended people. Its how all politicians and scoundrels apologize.

He's sorry he didn't understand what he signed.

1078 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:39:22pm

re: #992 Jimmah

I don't trust zombie. Too often these days I find him to be dangerously close to the Pamela Geller/ Glenn Beck type hysterics. That whole Holdren piece, for example - just woeful.

Not just the Holdren piece. This recent nonsense of claiming that there aren't more threats to Obama, or that threats to Bush were underreported by the media, or that threats to Bush were not as vigorously pursued by the Secret service-- because they weren't reported by the media. Huh? If the Secret Service relies on the media for clues about who to investiagte we're in deeper shit than I thought.

Without a statement from the Secret Service zombie has no basis whatsoever for making those claims. Although it's difficult to tell exactly what claims zombie intends to make in those posts, because he changes his mind all the time.

Apparently zombie did good work at one point taking pictures of the fringe left and rallies. Good for him.

But these recent posts make it look less like zombie is interested in citizen journalism or exposing the fringe than in pushing a partisan agenda, and that's a shame. The recent posts about Bush threats in particular. I fail to see the relevance of pointing out that the left went crazy over Bush-- except as a way of somehow downplaying, justifying, or minimising the crazy happening on the right at the moment. It's not 2002, 2004, or 2006 any more.

Lending credence to this Van Jones conspiracy stuff is just more evidence of that partisan agenda, in my opinion. And that's a shame. I'd rather see someone who can point out the lunacy on both sides, and doesn't develop a mysterious blind spot for only one.

1079 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:39:30pm

Resistance is futile...
Wheee!

1080 Yankee Zionist  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:39:39pm

re: #1075 Mich-again

Actually, I thought his apology was related to other obnoxious thins he said, not his signature.

1081 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:40:16pm

Ha! I witnessed a flounce in the wild before it was deleted.

1082 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:40:35pm

re: #1075 Mich-again

True. It was the classic non-apology apology. He never said he was sorry for doing it, only that he was sorry that doing it offended people. Its how all politicians and scoundrels apologize.

No. You're completely misunderstanding. The apology was for other statements.

He did NOT apologize for signing the Truther document. This is what he said about it:

In a statement issued Thursday evening Jones said of “the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever.”

1083 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:40:38pm

re: #1074 Wendya

Yeah- the textbook discussed some hypothetical situations. Are we going to condemn people for this now? Over discussions on hypotheticals?

1084 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:41:08pm

re: #1012 Charles

Charles he did say that. He also said the man was deranged and aggressive and very close. This was not wise. And was likely designed to encourage violence.

1085 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:41:12pm

re: #1072 austin_blue

A cogent response is at 1106.

/lots of bald assertions stated as fact

1086 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:41:32pm

re: #1078 iceweasel


Lending credence to this Van Jones conspiracy stuff is just more evidence of that partisan agenda, in my opinion.

Quoting Van Jones actual words and statements is not a conspiracy.

Pointing out that he signed a truther petition (but claims he didn't pay attention to the content) is not a conspiracy.

1087 JacksonTn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:41:34pm

re: #1078 iceweasel

Not just the Holdren piece. This recent nonsense of claiming that there aren't more threats to Obama, or that threats to Bush were underreported by the media, or that threats to Bush were not as vigorously pursued by the Secret service-- because they weren't reported by the media. Huh? If the Secret Service relies on the media for clues about who to investiagte we're in deeper shit than I thought.

Without a statement from the Secret Service zombie has no basis whatsoever for making those claims. Although it's difficult to tell exactly what claims zombie intends to make in those posts, because he changes his mind all the time.

Apparently zombie did good work at one point taking pictures of the fringe left and rallies. Good for him.

But these recent posts make it look less like zombie is interested in citizen journalism or exposing the fringe than in pushing a partisan agenda, and that's a shame. The recent posts about Bush threats in particular. I fail to see the relevance of pointing out that the left went crazy over Bush-- except as a way of somehow downplaying, justifying, or minimising the crazy happening on the right at the moment. It's not 2002, 2004, or 2006 any more.

Lending credence to this Van Jones conspiracy stuff is just more evidence of that partisan agenda, in my opinion. And that's a shame. I'd rather see someone who can point out the lunacy on both sides, and doesn't develop a mysterious blind spot for only one.

IW ... bullshit ... and you have an agenda ... it is clear ... you do not fool me and you never have ...

1088 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:41:38pm

re: #1023 Wendya

What about the Holdren piece was incorrect?

His entire read of it was off. Zombie doesn't seem to understand that this is just how academics discuss hypotherical situations involving the fates of large numbers of people. She leapt from that to an assumption of intentions.

1089 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:42:00pm

re: #1076 Sharmuta

Reagan and both Bushes had czars- were we whining then?

I would have, if the people were as creepy and disgusting as the ones Obama has hired.

1090 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:42:01pm

That should do it. Sleep well all.

1091 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:42:17pm

re: #1038 Killian Bundy

/hey, the White House could have just done the smart thing in the first place and said no to hosting a birthday party for communist China, they didn't need to put their stamp of approval on it

The party was suggested by a Chinese American group to promote the peaceful relations between the two countries. I see nothing wrong with supporting peaceful relations between two superpowers. I agree, this description is a bit over the top though.

"Chinese associations in the United States had applied to hold a ceremony in front of the US President’s residence to celebrate the 60th anniversary of the founding of PRC.

Chen Ronghua, chairman of Fujian Association of the United States, told reporters that their application was approved not only because of the sound Sino-US relations but also because China is a responsible country.

"Many Americans admire China due to the success of last year’s Beijing Olympics," said Chen.

More than 1,000 people will attend the ceremony and the performances held after it, according to Zhao Luqun, who will direct the performances.

Zhao said the performances will demonstrate the friendship, magnanimous spirit and kindness of modern Chinese people. "

1092 badger1970  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:42:22pm

Torn between two liars. It still doesn't excuse that lame-assed "I'm sorry that you were offended" non-apology. Van Jones is a proven radical activist that doesn't need to be anywhere close to an executive position.

1093 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:42:46pm

re: #1081 Bagua

Ha! I witnessed a flounce in the wild before it was deleted.

Cool. Now help me get the charcoal on so we can grill this troll.

1094 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:42:49pm

re: #1080 Yankee Zionist

Actually, I thought his apology was related to other obnoxious thins he said, not his signature.

That is so evident from reading the article that it proves the inability of some people to comprehend rationally when their belief systems are involved. I've made that argument on many AGW threads as a theory, here is an example of the phenomenon I'm talking about. Presumably there are otherwise sane and reliable people.

1095 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:43:44pm

re: #1083 Sharmuta

Yeah- the textbook discussed some hypothetical situations. Are we going to condemn people for this now? Over discussions on hypotheticals?

Hypothetical situations or potential responses to future situations?

If A happens, we can do B and C. We believe it would be legal and allowable under the constitution.

Sounds like they put a lot of research into their "hypotheticals".

1096 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:43:52pm

re: #1093 Dark_Falcon

Cool. Now help me get the charcoal on so we can grill this troll.

Here's a light.

1097 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:44:04pm

re: #1066 austin_blue

You'll have your view on that, I'll have mine.

The ESAPI (ceramic) front and back plates they have now are about the best available.

After some initial good press on DragonSkin armor, it turns it that it had some flaws too.

For infantry it comes down to the tradeoff between mobility and protection. From what my kid tells me, that front and back plates are all they'll wear, anything else turns you into a turtle.

I've got plenty of other reasons to find the NYT to be marginal new source way too enamored of their agenda.

1098 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:44:10pm

re: #1092 badger1970

Torn between two liars. It still doesn't excuse that lame-assed "I'm sorry that you were offended" non-apology. Van Jones is a proven radical activist that doesn't need to be anywhere close to an executive position.

Sounds good to me.

1099 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:44:51pm

Fire Water Burn

1100 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:44:55pm

re: #1095 Wendya

Doesn't change the fact it was a hypothetical discussion blown out of proportion.

1101 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:45:18pm

re: #1067 kateca

And now he's a Czar in the Obama Whitlesshouse. Another fly in the ointment.

FTFY.
OK, it was cheap shot. I couldn't help myself.

1102 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:45:19pm

re: #1099 Killgore Trout

I loves it, Precious.

1103 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:45:25pm

re: #1088 Jimmah

His entire read of it was off. Zombie doesn't seem to understand that this is just how academics discuss hypotherical situations involving the fates of large numbers of people. She leapt from that to an assumption of intentions.

Bullshit.

Did they teach you in school that if there isn't enough food for a geographical, it might be possible to eliminate the population through forced sterilization and euthanasia?

I can't believe you people make excuses for that monster.

1104 solomonpanting  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:45:30pm

re: #1089 TheMatrix31

I would have, if the people were as creepy and disgusting as the ones Obama has hired.

Especially self-identified communists. But that was in the past, thank goodness.

1105 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:45:38pm

re: #1084 pat

Charles he did say that. He also said the man was deranged and aggressive and very close. This was not wise. And was likely designed to encourage violence.

Yup

1106 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:46:07pm

re: #1103 Wendya

I totally believe you'd buy into anti-science bullshit.

1107 jaunte  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:46:15pm

People who don't like Van Jones should be asking him to set some goals for his czarea of responsibility and raise a stink if he doesn't achieve them.

1108 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:02pm

re: #1069 Sharmuta

Are we seriously going to condemn scientists for having hypothetical conversations?

No but it is a window into how they think and where their passion lies. And that guy Holdren gave me the creeps with his fascination with Eugenics. So I won't condemn him for engaging in a hypothetical discussion, but he's still a creep.

1109 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:06pm

re: #1099 Killgore Trout

Have you seen Jimmy Pop's Chris Isaak parody?

1110 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:07pm

re: #1048 MJ

Van Jones signature was attached to something else, not that document. See my earlier comment 773. Interesting that your link goes to FILE NOT FOUND.

1111 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:09pm

zombie must really be doing damage to be so attacked like that. I'm impressed.

1112 kateca  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:16pm

re: #1076 Sharmuta

Sorry no linc, but two or three? As opposed to 38? and growing, in number and prominince.

1113 leftover54  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:16pm

re: #683 DrNaughty

Ah, I just saw her on the 'Larry The Cable Guy' roast - just had to see her. As one of the other 'comics' asked:
'what happened ?'
I'm not so shallow that I sum up the woman based on her looks alone but after what I heard her take/dish out I feel ok
saying "I don't think so Doc, not even with yours".

*There's absolutely nothing on my cable line up tonight.'TMC' is all 2 star, the rest not even a comet.

1114 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:21pm

Another one running away from his previous written past.

1115 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:21pm

re: #999 Desert Dog

Yes, the NYT led the way rallying the troops! I cannot believe you site them for supporting the troops. I would guess the armor bits were more of a way to "zap" Bush. When you write story after story calling our soldiers animals and criminals, you are not being supportive. When you write stories that are supposed to be "hard news" items that look like they belong in the editorial section about how bad the war is going, how it is lost, how our plan is bad, you are not being supportive. The NYT gave the enemies shooting at our boys hope, encouragement and a reason to keep fighting. FU*K the NYT.

I read posts like this and only one thought comes to mind: You don't read the NYT daily, do you you?

So where the hell do you get off making these accusations unless you are part of the echo chamber?

Keep in mind that the echo chamber is based on a large group of idiots who continually repeat what they have been told to repeat rather than determining if the agitprop is true or not.

This is true for the left and it is true for the right. I thought that this board was supposed to be anti-idiotarian, but based on the posts tonight, and Charles' response to many of them, I have my doubts.

Sigh.

1116 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:34pm

There is too much going on here for me to follow, having come in on the middle of it all.

I found some under $1 downloads from audible.com. I'll check in later.

enjoy!

1117 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:50pm

re: #1049 opnion

Read this:

An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm.

Generally, the essential elements of assault consist of an act intended to cause an apprehension of harmful or offensive contact that causes apprehension of such contact in the victim.

The act required for an assault must be overt. Although words alone are insufficient, they might create an assault when coupled with some action that indicates the ability to carry out the threat. A mere threat to harm is not an assault; however, a threat combined with a raised fist might be sufficient if it causes a reasonable apprehension of harm in the victim.

Your argument is bogus. There was no assault until Pinky-Man threw a punch. What is quite telling is that you would so pigheadedly defend a violent attacker.

If I am defending the old guy sans a finger as you say , then you are defending the Move On thug, right?

I am not defending a Move On Thug so much as I am proving that you are defending an unprovoked assault and battery, and using a bogus argument to do so. Even after it has been demonstrated, over and over, Pinky-Man has admitted his guilt in the altercation.

I'll say again, if someone initiates a violent act, then whatever violence they receive in return is tough shit for them.

1118 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:47:59pm

Well if McDonnell can run away from his thesis, why can't Jones run away from his petition?

1119 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:48:12pm

re: #1108 Mich-again

No but it is a window into how they think and where their passion lies. And that guy Holdren gave me the creeps with his fascination with Eugenics. So I won't condemn him for engaging in a hypothetical discussion, but he's still a creep.

What's creepy is the story was picked up by alex jones and folks still think there's nothing wrong with it.

1120 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:48:29pm

re: #1096 Bagua

Here's a light.

Thank you. We'll be ready to serve the troll in about 22 minutes.

1121 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:48:45pm

re: #1091 avanti

When did putting pressure on China over human rights, unfair, anti-free market economic/trade practices, Taiwan, Tibet, etc. fly out the window?

/now were throwing them birthday parties at the White House

1122 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:49:50pm

re: #1078 iceweasel

Not just the Holdren piece. This recent nonsense of claiming that there aren't more threats to Obama, or that threats to Bush were underreported by the media, or that threats to Bush were not as vigorously pursued by the Secret service-- because they weren't reported by the media. Huh? If the Secret Service relies on the media for clues about who to investiagte we're in deeper shit than I thought.

Without a statement from the Secret Service zombie has no basis whatsoever for making those claims. Although it's difficult to tell exactly what claims zombie intends to make in those posts, because he changes his mind all the time.

Apparently zombie did good work at one point taking pictures of the fringe left and rallies. Good for him.

But these recent posts make it look less like zombie is interested in citizen journalism or exposing the fringe than in pushing a partisan agenda, and that's a shame. The recent posts about Bush threats in particular. I fail to see the relevance of pointing out that the left went crazy over Bush-- except as a way of somehow downplaying, justifying, or minimising the crazy happening on the right at the moment. It's not 2002, 2004, or 2006 any more.

Lending credence to this Van Jones conspiracy stuff is just more evidence of that partisan agenda, in my opinion. And that's a shame. I'd rather see someone who can point out the lunacy on both sides, and doesn't develop a mysterious blind spot for only one.

I agree entirely, iceweasel. I am very disappointed that a poster whose contributions I used to enjoy has gone in this direction.

1123 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:49:50pm

re: #1052 Wendya

[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]

I think we may be talking semantics here. Jones may have received a request to join others in support of a investigation of 9-11 and agreed to the use of his name. perhaps not knowing all the details. It's possible, no one signed anything, just a attached name.

1124 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:49:53pm

Does anybody have a direct link to Van Jones statement of this evening? All I can find are stories quoting it.

1125 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:50:02pm

re: #1119 Sharmuta

What's creepy is the story was picked up by alex jones and folks still think there's nothing wrong with it.

That is scary. If Jones gets hold of a story, thaat's a clue that the story is probably a long way into nutcase territory.

1126 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:50:07pm

re: #1115 austin_blue


This is true for the left and it is true for the right. I thought that this board was supposed to be anti-idiotarian, but based on the posts tonight, and Charles' response to many of them, I have my doubts.

Sigh.


"Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?" -- "Who will watch the Watchmen?"
-- Juvenal, Satires, VI, 347. circa 128 AD

1127 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:50:51pm

re: #1125 Dark_Falcon

That is scary. If Jones gets hold of a story, thaat's a clue that the story is probably a long way into nutcase territory.

OK. Well- you'll excuse some of us as seeing that story as kook fodder.

1128 pat  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:51:02pm

Sheeesh. Now we have push posting.

1129 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:51:40pm

re: #1128 pat

What's that mean?

1130 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:51:47pm

Burning Down The House


Who got a match?
1131 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:51:48pm

re: #1121 Killian Bundy

When did putting pressure on China over human rights, unfair, anti-free market economic/trade practices, Taiwan, Tibet, etc. fly out the window?

/now were throwing them birthday parties at the White House

Agreed. I hate the damned communists overseas, and I hate their damned apologists in the States.

We should be throwing parties for the independent nation of Taiwan.

1132 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:52:11pm

re: #1090 opnion

That should do it. Sleep well all.

Oh well. I trust you'll check back in the morning to see me completely trouncing your bogus defense of a violent actor here.

Good night.

1133 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:52:22pm

It's just amazing to me that so many lizards are putting credence in the words of 9/11 Truthers, even after Van Jones said unequivocally that the document with his name on it does not reflect his views.

I searched all day to find evidence that Van Jones was a 9/11 Truther. If I had found that evidence I'd be screaming louder than any of you right now.

The evidence doesn't exist. He's not a Truther.

1134 MJ  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:52:40pm

re: #1110 HelloDare

Van Jones signature was attached to something else, not that document. See my earlier comment 773. Interesting that your link goes to FILE NOT FOUND.

I can't post the link to your comment 772 since it contains a link to Rense.

As for the File Not Found, that link is contained in the document itself.

1135 kateca  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:53:14pm

re: #1101 Van Helsing

FTFY.
OK, it was cheap shot. I couldn't help myself.

LOL

1136 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:53:24pm

re: #1126 Bagua

"Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?" -- "Who will watch the Watchmen?"
-- Juvenal, Satires, VI, 347. circa 128 AD

Answer: Not as many people as the studio hoped.

/rimshot

1137 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:53:58pm

re: #1088 Jimmah

His entire read of it was off. Zombie doesn't seem to understand that this is just how academics discuss hypotherical situations involving the fates of large numbers of people. She leapt from that to an assumption of intentions.

Precisely. Zombie doesn't seem to grasp that this is how academia works. Discussion is not endorsement. Quote-mining is not research. It was an embarrassment.

1138 Syrah  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:54:09pm

re: #1130 Killgore Trout

Burning Down The House

[Video]
Who got a match?

Right here.

So I like Tom Jones. . . .

1139 badger1970  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:54:44pm

re: #1126 Bagua

"Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?" -- "Who will watch the Watchmen?"
-- Juvenal, Satires, VI, 347. circa 128 AD

Unfortunately, many will agree with the Comedian.

1140 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:54:50pm

re: #1103 Wendya

Bullshit.

Did they teach you in school that if there isn't enough food for a geographical, it might be possible to eliminate the population through forced sterilization and euthanasia?

I can't believe you people make excuses for that monster.

I can't believe people are actually believing he's a monster because he discussed, as befits a scientists duty, what the actual alternatives facing mankind might be in a given scenario. The scientist does not know what the powers that be in such a situation will rule in or out on moral grounds, he just looks at the pressures and demands and the meausres which could be used to answer them.

1141 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:54:59pm

re: #1117 Slumbering Behemoth

Read this:

An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm.


I am not defending a Move On Thug so much as I am proving that you are defending an unprovoked assault and battery, and using a bogus argument to do so. Even after it has been demonstrated, over and over, Pinky-Man has admitted his guilt in the altercation.

I'll say again, if someone initiates a violent act, then whatever violence they receive in return is tough shit for them.


.
My arguement is not bogus. Threateningly getting into someones face with the ability to carry out the threat is suffuicient for assault.
You might feel good about proving me wrong in your own mind but you have not.
I suggest that you read more on assault in order to understand the California statute. You seem to be bending it to fit your arguenment.
Asauult does not require battery , only an expectation of violence with the ability.

1142 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:55:13pm

re: #1127 Sharmuta

OK. Well- you'll excuse some of us as seeing that story as kook fodder.

I just think he's an often-wrong ideologue:Forbes article

1143 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:55:17pm

Now up to 37 hate mails. I'm just deleting them when they come in.

1144 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:55:29pm

re: #1082 Charles

No. You're completely misunderstanding. The apology was for other statements.

I read it again and you are right about that. This is what he said..

“In recent days some in the news media have reported on past statements I made before I joined the administration – some of which were made years ago. If I have offended anyone with statements I made in the past, I apologize.”

Its an even trickier non-apology apology than I first thought. It covers all bases! I could make amends with hundreds of people at once with that line.

1145 Wendya  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:55:48pm

re: #1100 Sharmuta

I totally believe you'd buy into anti-science bullshit.


And I totally believe you would be supporting a book you've never read because you think it's "Science".

1146 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:56:22pm

re: #1136 Dark_Falcon

Answer: Not as many people as the studio hoped.

/rimshot

Sad but true.

Now as I look round, it's mighty plain to see
The world is such a great and a funny place to be;
The gamblin' man is rich and the workin' man is poor
And I ain't got no home in this world anymore./blockquote>
Woody Guthrie

1147 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:56:36pm
1148 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:56:37pm

re: #1133 Charles

Charles,

The "death panels" are out. And Van Jones is in. The people pushing this could not care less about facts.

1149 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:56:37pm

re: #1138 Syrah

I almost went with that version for the sake of variety. It's well done and his voice certainly has the energy but I'm a classicist at heart.

1150 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:56:42pm

re: #1145 Wendya

And I totally believe you would be supporting a book you've never read because you think it's "Science".

Thinking someone's take on the book is flawed is not an endorsement of said book.

1151 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:56:51pm

re: #1115 austin_blue

I read posts like this and only one thought comes to mind: You don't read the NYT daily, do you you?

So where the hell do you get off making these accusations unless you are part of the echo chamber?

Keep in mind that the echo chamber is based on a large group of idiots who continually repeat what they have been told to repeat rather than determining if the agitprop is true or not.

This is true for the left and it is true for the right. I thought that this board was supposed to be anti-idiotarian, but based on the posts tonight, and Charles' response to many of them, I have my doubts.

Sigh.

Sigh, indeed.

I read it online. What is so hard to admit they had an agenda while Bush was in office? The fact that you fail to admit to that means you probably agreed with everything they wrote. How many stories about Abu Ghraib did they run? That was the only story in Iraq if you only read the Times. The Times put their own hatred of George W Bush over the safety and well-being of our soldiers on many occasions. That is just plain wrong.

Sure they have good writing, that is the "zenith" in the newspaper biz in the USA. But, stories written by left leaning writers, edited by left leaning editors for a paper owned by a left leaning guy will undoubtedly produce what the NYT produces every day. Want to read a better newspaper? Read the WSJ.

I read reponses like yours and can almost see the smug lefty holier than thou vibe dripping off the letters. Get off your high horse with me, I read more than most and I see what I see.

1152 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:57:08pm

re: #1133 Charles

It's just amazing to me that so many lizards are putting credence in the words of 9/11 Truthers, even after Van Jones said unequivocally that the document with his name on it does not reflect his views.

I searched all day to find evidence that Van Jones was a 9/11 Truther. If I had found that evidence I'd be screaming louder than any of you right now.

The evidence doesn't exist. He's not a Truther.

The response tonight has been disturbing, especially among some *really* long term Lizards.

1153 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:57:22pm

re: #1147 Edge

Oh, just piss off.

1154 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:57:40pm

re: #1078 iceweasel

I fail to see the relevance of pointing out that the left went crazy over Bush-- except as a way of somehow downplaying, justifying, or minimising the crazy happening on the right at the moment. It's not 2002, 2004, or 2006 any more.
[snip]
I'd rather see someone who can point out the lunacy on both sides, and doesn't develop a mysterious blind spot for only one.

These days, all we hear from the media is how the right is a bunch of rich racists and poor racist thugs. When leftists go batshit crazy and smash things, they get laudatory movies made about them.

1155 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:58:28pm

re: #1142 Van Helsing

I just think he's an often-wrong ideologue:Forbes article

Again- thinking someone else's take is wrong isn't an endorsement of Holdren or his book or any of his positions.

1156 MJ  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:58:36pm

re: #1147 Edge

"For your position to have real bite, you would have to show that all Truthers ALWAYS lie"

They always do lie. Their whole position is based on a lie.

1157 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:58:37pm

re: #1141 opnion

.
My arguement is not bogus. Threateningly getting into someones face ...

What's bogus is that you are frothing at the mouth over a street-fight about which you have heard only one sides explanation.

1158 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:58:43pm

re: #1111 unrealizedviewpoint

zombie must really be doing damage to be so attacked like that. I'm impressed.

Insert any of the following:
Alex Jones
Glenn Beck
Sarah Palin
Michelle Bachmann
James Inholfe

Sorry, but sometimes an objection is about...having an objection. It's only in the current ass-backwards bizarro world of wingnut logic that having many detractors is supposed to grant one status and credibility.

Would you endorse this statement?
"Obama must really be doing something right to be attacked like that. I'm impressed."
Somehow I think not.

1159 JacksonTn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:59:07pm

re: #1144 Mich-again

Its an even trickier non-apology apology than I first thought. It covers all bases! I could make amends with hundreds of people at once with that line.

Mich ... guess you are getting the idea of the far left democrat swirl ... you see ... I was schooled in it ... make the "magic" words feel good ... presto ... redeemed ... I ain't saying the guy was anything or even endorsed anything ... at this point who the fuck would be surprised at anything anyway ... but I can tell you ... they are masters at the changing the words to make them seem so ... um... lovely ...

1160 Ziggy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:59:14pm

re: #1043 Flyers1974

I think so.

For some reason, my computer is acting hinky and my response didn't get posted properly.

I love your handle. The Broad Street Bullies were the BEST. The Phillies are definatley making it to the Series. Will they win? I hope so, but the AL has some awesome talent.

Bed time for Bonzo. Good night lizards.

1161 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 9:59:56pm

While you are all being distracted, a sinister vapour issues from the godless test tubes of Bad Science.

In a shocking piece of inhuman sickthink, heartless boffins are coldly and calmly proposing that in the event of an epidemic, disease victims should not be treated, but should instead be murdered in their millions. In their report - "Infectious Diseases Modelling Research Progress" - the soulless eggheads propose:

1) decapitation as the preferred method of carrying out the slaughter of the victims

2) to "hit them hard and hit them often".

3) and that "only frequent counter-attacks with increasing force" would eradicate the victims.

Perhaps most disturbingly of all, the report makes no distinction among those marked for slaughter as to whether they are men, women, children, pregnant, elderly, disabled, or even just tiny little babies.

One can only hysterically fantasize about what the consequences of this report might be on the Obama administration's swine flu contingencies. More information on this scientific shockfest is given here in a special report by the BBC:

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

1162 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:00:50pm

re: #1141 opnion

Asauult does not require battery , only an expectation of violence with the ability.

No such thing was demonstrated in this case. And your argument is bogus, and you are the one twisting things like a pretzel to make your case.

1163 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:01:07pm

re: #1133 Charles

It's just amazing to me that so many lizards are putting credence in the words of 9/11 Truthers, even after Van Jones said unequivocally that the document with his name on it does not reflect his views.

I searched all day to find evidence that Van Jones was a 9/11 Truther. If I had found that evidence I'd be screaming louder than any of you right now.

The evidence doesn't exist. He's not a Truther.

I'm looking on my end and still haven't found anything. Now, we know that truthers are opinionated. We also know that Van Jones is opinionated. Given this, I think if he was a truther there would be something out there. Even when given the opportunity to say something such as an article he wrote after the 2004 election he said nothing.

1164 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:01:22pm

re: #1103 Wendya

Bullshit.

Did they teach you in school that if there isn't enough food for a geographical, it might be possible to eliminate the population through forced sterilization and euthanasia?

I can't believe you people make excuses for that monster.

If you read the paper, they were discussing worst case solutions to saving the human race in a extreme situation. It's as you were discussing hypothetically tossing a 89 year old off a life raft in order to save 3 kids and their parents. The hypothetical were at least that far out, and just a intellectual exercise to insure the human race never ended up with too small a life raft.

1165 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:02:25pm

re: #1153 Charles

Oh, just piss off.

And that's ball, corners flounced off, and pocket for that one. I saw that flounce coming. Edge is on the grill, ready in 30. Proximate will be ready in 7. I'll now take drink orders. Everything but hard liquor is available.

1166 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:02:32pm

re: #1161 Jimmah

Ha. I will make a guess before linking. It must be the Survival Guide for the Zombies or something like that. My 17YO read that and was cracking me up with the rules. Organize Before They Rise!

1167 tradewind  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:02:47pm

Actually, whether or not he dabbled in Trutherism is not as important in the context of what we do know: that he was an anarchist, a marxist, called for revolution against the government, lauded Chavez, wants to see reparations...ad nauseum, ad infinitum. .and these are not views that he held as a naive student. He only recently saw the light and renounced the most radical of his positions when it looked like a fair bet that his buddy O was ascending.

1168 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:03:18pm

re: #1158 iceweasel

Insert any of the following:
Alex Jones
Glenn Beck
Sarah Palin
Michelle Bachmann
James Inholfe

Sorry, but sometimes an objection is about...having an objection. It's only in the current ass-backwards bizarro world of wingnut logic that having many detractors is supposed to grant one status and credibility.

Would you endorse this statement?
"Obama must really be doing something right to be attacked like that. I'm impressed."
Somehow I think not.

How would you assess this?

"You know you're over the target when you start taking flak."

1169 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:03:29pm

re: #1157 Bagua

What's bogus is that you are frothing at the mouth over a street-fight about which you have heard only one sides explanation.

And not even acknowledging the side that is missing a bit of finger, who has admitted he was in the wrong.

1170 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:03:39pm

re: #1161 Jimmah

While you are all being distracted, a sinister vapour issues from the godless test tubes of Bad Science.

In a shocking piece of inhuman sickthink, heartless boffins are coldly and calmly proposing that in the event of an epidemic, disease victims should not be treated, but should instead be murdered in their millions. In their report - "Infectious Diseases Modelling Research Progress" - the soulless eggheads propose:

1) decapitation as the preferred method of carrying out the slaughter of the victims

2) to "hit them hard and hit them often".

3) and that "only frequent counter-attacks with increasing force" would eradicate the victims.

Perhaps most disturbingly of all, the report makes no distinction among those marked for slaughter as to whether they are men, women, children, pregnant, elderly, disabled, or even just tiny little babies.

One can only hysterically fantasize about what the consequences of this report might be on the Obama administration's swine flu contingencies. More information on this scientific shockfest is given here in a special report by the BBC:

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

LOL! That one I'll upding, Jimmah.

1171 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:03:43pm

re: #1158 iceweasel

re: #1111 unrealizedviewpoint
Sorry, but sometimes an objection is about...having an objection. It's only in the current ass-backwards bizarro world of wingnut logic that having many detractors is supposed to grant one status and credibility.

Would you endorse this statement?
"Obama must really be doing something right to be attacked like that. I'm impressed."
Somehow I think not.

It is just like Marion Barry. He had the "right" enemies and his supporters overlooked all the damage he did because the wanted to "stick to the man".

1172 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:04:00pm

re: #1165 Dark_Falcon

And that's ball, corners flounced off, and pocket for that one. I saw that flounce coming. Edge is on the grill, ready in 30. Proximate will be ready in 7. I'll now take drink orders. Everything but hard liquor is available.

That's outrageous, I demand Scotch Whiskey.

/flounces off yet again

1173 Yankee Zionist  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:04:03pm

re: #1133 Charles

There are two issues here.

Is he a truther?

Probably not.

Did he sign the statement?

I think, probably yeah.

1174 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:04:15pm

re: #1154 haakondahl

These days, all we hear from the media is how the right is a bunch of rich racists and poor racist thugs. When leftists go batshit crazy and smash things, they get laudatory movies made about them.

Yes, and it's difficult to point out the hypocrisy of some on the left without bringing up recent history.

I could for instance say 'evil CEOs and their corporate jets' followed by 'congress and Gulfstreams'. Your text to link...

the difference being that the evil CEOs (up until recently) used their own money to run their jets, and congress uses OUR money to run their jets.

1175 Killian Bundy  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:04:42pm

How many more times are we going to let North Korea urinate on our leg with impunity?

N Korea 'in final uranium phase'

North Korea has entered the final phase of uranium enrichment, the North's state media are reported as saying by South Korea's Yonhap news agency.

"Uranium enrichment tests have been successfully carried out and that process is in the concluding stage," state media were quoted as saying.

If confirmed, the move would be in defiance of international pressure for the North to abandon its nuclear work.

The UN passed tougher sanctions after a nuclear test by Pyongyang in May.

Between Iran, North Korea, and Pakistan, it's just a matter of time before a working nuclear device ends up in the hands of some rogue state or non-state actor with a strong desire to detonate it at a time a place that is contrary to U.S. national interests.

/talks, letters, lots of whistling past the graveyard

1176 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:05:20pm

re: #1161 Jimmah

While you are all being distracted, a sinister vapour issues from the godless test tubes of Bad Science.

In a shocking piece of inhuman sickthink, heartless boffins are coldly and calmly proposing that in the event of an epidemic, disease victims should not be treated, but should instead be murdered in their millions. In their report - "Infectious Diseases Modelling Research Progress" - the soulless eggheads propose:

1) decapitation as the preferred method of carrying out the slaughter of the victims

2) to "hit them hard and hit them often".

3) and that "only frequent counter-attacks with increasing force" would eradicate the victims.

Perhaps most disturbingly of all, the report makes no distinction among those marked for slaughter as to whether they are men, women, children, pregnant, elderly, disabled, or even just tiny little babies.

One can only hysterically fantasize about what the consequences of this report might be on the Obama administration's swine flu contingencies. More information on this scientific shockfest is given here in a special report by the BBC:

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Sounds like Zombies!

1177 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:05:46pm

re: #1157 Bagua

What's bogus is that you are frothing at the mouth over a street-fight about which you have heard only one sides explanation.


I am not frothing at the mouth, honestly, I just checked in the mirror.
We are debating the elements of what constitutes assault.
I would think that the frother would first resort to insults & that was not me, but thanks for your snarky concern.

1178 flyers1974  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:05:47pm

Good night.

1179 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:05:49pm

re: #1087 JacksonTn

IW ... bullshit ... and you have an agenda ... it is clear ... you do not fool me and you never have ...

When you have anything concrete to say, other than simply saying bullshit and accusing me of having an unspecified 'agenda'-- get back to me.

I note that you didn't even attempt to refute anything I said. Not surprised.

1180 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:06:00pm

re: #1161 Jimmah

OK now I read the link you posted I see these guys must have read that book I was trying to remember because they are parroting it scientifically I guess. It was The Zombie Survival Guide.

1181 tradewind  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:06:04pm

re: #1137 iceweasel

And claiming ' it's a theoretical, abstract discussion ' is not always an adequate cover for a position that one actively endorses among friends but wishes to be able to disavow when publicly questioned.

1182 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:06:24pm

re: #1161 Jimmah

That explains why we have contingency plans to nuke Canada.

1183 bartok1001  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:06:27pm

Question:

Did Van Jones really sign the petition in question?
One can go to Archive.org to check out old screen shots from different web sites. If one looks at the Dec 3, 2004 archive of the [Link: www.911truth.org...] website and clicks the link about the 911 Truth Statement they will see the following items on a list:

[Link: web.archive.org...]

45. Randy Hayes, founder, Rainforest Action Network, US National Director, Direction Conservation
46. Richard Heinberg, author, The Party's Over, core faculty, New College of California
47. Van Jones, executive director, Ella Baker Center for Human Rights.

Conclusions:
1. It is probably accurate to say that a petition existed back in 2004 with Van Jones's name on it.
2. This petition did exist at the 911truth.org website, unless someone hacked the database at archive.org.
3. Although it is possible that the website co-opted Van Jones name, this would have had to take place in 2004, which would probably be unlikely.
4. 911Truth.org states that this petition is accurate.

It is probably safe to assume that Van Jones did sign the petition. Now, it is true that he may not have known what he signed as he is a person who gets involved in many political causes. Two points of mitigation here is it seems unlikely for a well respected lawyer who graduated from Yale would not know what he were getting into. One would expect such a person to understand what it means to sign a petition like the one shown at 911truth.org. Also, it is reasonable to point out that Van Jones has not denied the truther movement (to my knowledge) prior to any point up to tonight.

Draw your own conclusions from my message, but I would favor the Truthers on their veracity that Van Jones signed their petition.

1184 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:06:31pm

re: #1169 Slumbering Behemoth

And not even acknowledging the side that is missing a bit of finger, who has admitted he was in the wrong.


A classic example of the distorting effect of beliefs.

1185 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:06:37pm

re: #1173 Yankee Zionist

Who cares? The middle of the road voters are looking for leadership and solutions to their problems. If the GOP wants to make a comeback, they need to focus on that instead of blindly following every paranoia fantasy by Beck.

1186 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:06:46pm

re: #1181 tradewind

And claiming ' it's a theoretical, abstract discussion ' is not always an adequate cover for a position that one actively endorses among friends but wishes to be able to disavow when publicly questioned.

And you have proof this position was endorsed?

1187 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:06:49pm

re: #1166 Mich-again

Ha. I will make a guess before linking. It must be the Survival Guide for the Zombies or something like that. My 17YO read that and was cracking me up with the rules. Organize Before They Rise!

Oh, it's better than that. :)

1188 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:07:14pm

re: #1171 Chekote

It is just like Marion Barry. He had the "right" enemies and his supporters overlooked all the damage he did because the wanted to "stick to the man".

Good point. BTW, was your nic taken from Star Trek: Voyager?

1189 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:07:48pm

re: #1177 opnion

I am not frothing at the mouth, honestly, I just checked in the mirror.
We are debating the elements of what constitutes assault.
I would think that the frother would first resort to insults & that was not me, but thanks for your snarky concern.

I fully understand that you believe what you are saying and are unaware of your appearance, this is classic frothing at the mouth. Not an insult, an observation.

1190 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:07:48pm

re: #1188 Dark_Falcon

Yes. I just spell it differently.

1191 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:07:59pm

re: #1103 Wendya

There were many people who took Zombie up on the challenge regarding his Holdren piece.

For example, on thing Zombie overlooked was that the discussion in the textbook was referencing previous work done in the field, which was described in a footnote, but it was on a page before those copied by Zombie.

The fact that there are people here who still have heartburn over Holdren, even with all the shakeout over his previous work in response to Zombie's post.

I ask the same question about Holdren that I asked about Holder earlier: given he has been in his position for about a half a year now, what is it he has done with which you disagree? Has put forward a one-child policy? Has he stepped up euthanasia efforts in nursing homes across this country? If you are so certain Holdren wants to kill off large portions of our population, where has he proposed doing so?

1192 Danny  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:08:30pm

Signing off. Good night.

1193 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:08:33pm

re: #1173 Yankee Zionist

There are two issues here.

Is he a truther?

Probably not.

Did he sign the statement?

I think, probably yeah.

Truthers are known to get people to sign their documents and appear at their events under false pretenses.

They lie about what they do. If Van Jones says he didn't know what the document was really about if/when he signed it, I'll believe him LONG before I'll believe 9/11 Truthers.

And his claim is backed up by the fact that there is absolutely no other evidence in any statements he has ever made on record that he believes in Trutherism.

None.

Zero. Zip. Nada. No evidence.

1194 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:08:55pm

re: #1151 Desert Dog

Sigh, indeed.

I read it online. What is so hard to admit they had an agenda while Bush was in office? The fact that you fail to admit to that means you probably agreed with everything they wrote. How many stories about Abu Ghraib did they run? That was the only story in Iraq if you only read the Times. The Times put their own hatred of George W Bush over the safety and well-being of our soldiers on many occasions. That is just plain wrong.

Sure they have good writing, that is the "zenith" in the newspaper biz in the USA. But, stories written by left leaning writers, edited by left leaning editors for a paper owned by a left leaning guy will undoubtedly produce what the NYT produces every day. Want to read a better newspaper? Read the WSJ.

I read reponses like yours and can almost see the smug lefty holier than thou vibe dripping off the letters. Get off your high horse with me, I read more than most and I see what I see.

High horse? Do you ride English or Western? If you ride English, you would need to Post :-)

Were they true or not? That is not editorial, that is reporting. Are you unclear about the concept? That the government cannot overthrow the Constitution, even if they think the situation is *dire*?

Oh dear.

1195 avanti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:09:19pm

re: #1181 tradewind

And claiming ' it's a theoretical, abstract discussion ' is not always an adequate cover for a position that one actively endorses among friends but wishes to be able to disavow when publicly questioned.

So are you saying Holder is planning forced sterilization and abortions as SOP and not a hypothetical ?

1196 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:09:20pm

re: #1183 bartok1001

There's another vote in favor of accepting the word of 9/11 Truthers.

1197 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:09:35pm

re: #1162 Slumbering Behemoth

No such thing was demonstrated in this case. And your argument is bogus, and you are the one twisting things like a pretzel to make your case.


No I'm not. The facts are in dispute, but an eye witness tells a story of the old guy being threatened. If that is case then he was assaulted ,no matter who likes the definition.

1198 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:09:53pm

I've been trying to find out some more facts about the whole thing, and I have discovered:

A. I have low google-fu
B. I'm not joining Color of Change any time soon
C. World Nut Daily doesn't like him*
D. You can get both slants on this, depending on where you look.

I'm giving it time.

*Yeah, I know, I'm shocked too.

1199 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:10:32pm

Now Jake Tapper is Tweeting about Van Jones. Reporters should not tweet.
a source says Jones did not carefully review the language in the petition before agreeing to add his name.about 2 hours ago from mobile web

1200 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:11:22pm

re: #1161 Jimmah


One can only hysterically fantasize about what the consequences of this report might be on the Obama administration's swine flu contingencies. More information on this scientific shockfest is given here in a special report by the BBC:

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Jimmah-ski! In hysterics. I think I love you. :)

By the way-- we can check here: Do you have swine flu?

1201 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:11:29pm

re: #1185 Chekote

Who cares? The middle of the road voters are looking for leadership and solutions to their problems. If the GOP wants to make a comeback, they need to focus on that instead of blindly following every paranoia fantasy by Beck.

Quite Concur.

1202 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:12:06pm

re: #1193 Charles

Truthers are known to get people to sign their documents and appear at their events under false pretenses.

They lie about what they do. If Van Jones says he didn't know what the document was really about if/when he signed it, I'll believe him LONG before I'll believe 9/11 Truthers.

And his claim is backed up by the fact that there is absolutely no other evidence in any statements he has ever made on record that he believes in Trutherism.

None.

Zero. Zip. Nada. No evidence.

Those tricksy troofers tricked me !

Seriously ?

Shit, that disqualifies him for any position of power.

1203 Irish Rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:12:21pm

Oy, what a day here at LGF.
All this hostility... I think I need a second bottle of Magners.

1204 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:12:27pm

re: #1191 freetoken

where has he proposed doing so?

I think this, until you renounce what you said before it still stands. There's no expiration debate.

1205 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:12:39pm

re: #1201 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur.

Hear, hear

1206 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:12:53pm

re: #1182 Van Helsing

That explains why we have contingency plans to nuke Canada.

I say we nuke them from orbit.

1207 JacksonTn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:13:07pm

re: #1179 iceweasel

When you have anything concrete to say, other than simply saying bullshit and accusing me of having an unspecified 'agenda'-- get back to me.

I note that you didn't even attempt to refute anything I said. Not surprised.

IW .. with fifty cent words ... I cannot compete with you ... but I can tell you that I recognize you and what you are doing ... there are many things that will be revealed and not by some crazy person on television ... it will come ...

I await the day ...

Sigur Ros ...

1208 Yankee Zionist  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:13:23pm

re: #1185 Chekote

I care if he signed it cause it's irresponsible to sign crazy stuff like that.

I don't watch Beck.

My interest in this issue began when I saw Van Jones' name on the petition.

It looks to me that Charles is trying to do the same thing that William F. Buckley did when he ridiculed the John Birchers out of the conservative/Republican mainstream in the 1950s or 60s.

I may disagree with Charles about whether or not Van Jones signed the document, but on his quest to marginalize the nut jobs in the right ... more power to him.

1209 JarHeadLifer  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:13:31pm

re: #1167 tradewind

Actually, whether or not he dabbled in Trutherism is not as important in the context of what we do know: that he was an anarchist, a marxist, called for revolution against the government, lauded Chavez, wants to see reparations...ad nauseum, ad infinitum. .and these are not views that he held as a naive student. He only recently saw the light and renounced the most radical of his positions when it looked like a fair bet that his buddy O was ascending.

Absolutely spot on. Here's the other problem; Obama has had a measurable increase in the number of paid advisers (yet not Senate-confirmed) from what Bush had, to say nothing about the increase in so-called czars. We don't know exactly how many more, because that reporting hasn't been done and Obama - by his own WH's admission, isn't yet finished filling either vacancies or his newly created bureaucratic positions. Since most of these positions aren't filled under Senate scrutiny - or apparently media scrutiny either - we really have no idea if Van Jones is the exception and not the rule.

Given the number of Jihadist's defense attorneys that have found themselves holding lofty positions in Eric Holder's justice department, I tend to believe that Van Jones is more reflective of the whole, than he is indicative of the obscure advisory positions.

1210 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:14:09pm

Let's say that Van Jones gets fired. What would that achieve? I just don't get this drive to just draw blood without a strategy to win the war.

1211 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:14:22pm

re: #1206 haakondahl

I say we nuke them from orbit.

"Canadians are clearly-clearly an important species we're dealing with and I don't think that you or I, or anybody, has the right to arbitrarily exterminate them."

1212 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:14:31pm

re: #1194 austin_blue

High horse? Do you ride English or Western? If you ride English, you would need to Post :-)

Were they true or not? That is not editorial, that is reporting. Are you unclear about the concept? That the government cannot overthrow the Constitution, even if they think the situation is *dire*?

Oh dear.

I am certainly clear about one thing, Austin. Very clear. I can see what you are all about. Government overthrowing the Constitution you say? I have not seen that here in the USA, yet. I have high hopes with the new bunch though. I think they are up to the task.

I think it is you that should take a step outside the old echo chamber and see what is happening here in the real world.

1213 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:14:36pm

re: #1208 Yankee Zionist

It looks to me that Charles is trying to do the same thing that William F. Buckley did when he ridiculed the John Birchers out of the conservative/Republican mainstream in the 1950s or 60s.

I may disagree with Charles about whether or not Van Jones signed the document, but on his quest to marginalize the nut jobs in the right ... more power to him.

And thank God someone is doing this. If not for Charles- who would be providing this service to the right?

1214 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:14:38pm

re: #1204 Mich-again

I think this, until you renounce what you said before it still stands. There's no expiration debate.

He very clearly said that he does not believe the government should actively try to control population. We discussed this before, and I linked to the confirmation hearing video where this was touched upon.

1215 van helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:14:49pm

re: #1182 Van Helsing

That explains why we have contingency plans to nuke Canada.

Naww, from orbit you just drop rocks on 'em.
Why waste a good nuke when a kinetic strike will do the job?

1216 ShanghaiEd  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:14:53pm

re: #1146 Bagua

"Some men rob you with a six-gun,
And some with a fountain pen..."

--Woody Guthrie

1217 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:15:02pm

re: #1211 ArchangelMichael

"Canadians are clearly-clearly an important species we're dealing with and I don't think that you or I, or anybody, has the right to arbitrarily exterminate them."

/Are you going to stop us? You and what TARDIS?

1218 tradewind  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:15:28pm

re: #1144 Mich-again

"If I have offended anyone with statements I made in the past, I apologize.”


...is a classic non apology... and a time honored tactic used by, most recently, David Letterman when his butt was held to the fire for the awful statements he made re Palin and her family.
Translated, it means : ' Shiite, if I had realized how much grief I would be catching now, I would have kept my mouth shut'.
There's no actual or implied recanting there... it's a crossing- my- fingers, parsed dodge.

1219 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:15:33pm

re: #1210 Chekote

Let's say that Van Jones gets fired. What would that achieve? I just don't get this drive to just draw blood without a strategy to win the war.

You mean getting an admitted commie bitch out of the White House isn't a victory?

1220 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:15:53pm

re: #1210 Chekote

I just don't get this drive to just draw blood without a strategy to win the war.

Apparently cannibalism is all the rage these days.

1221 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:16:12pm

re: #1166 Mich-again

Ha. I will make a guess before linking. It must be the Survival Guide for the Zombies or something like that. My 17YO read that and was cracking me up with the rules. Organize Before They Rise!

I have a zombie kit. It's next to my earthquake kit.

1222 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:16:45pm

re: #1189 Bagua

I fully understand that you believe what you are saying and are unaware of your appearance, this is classic frothing at the mouth. Not an insult, an observation.

Ok, you got me I am sitting in this hotel room in Kansas frothing.
I am sure that you meant no insult as you have special powers to know these things.Yes I do believe what I'm saying, because we are not talking about the facts per se, just an established legal principal in all courts.
There is nothing that I can do to make you accept what you will not accedpy so, I'll just continue to froth & marvel at your special powers.
Right.

1223 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:16:46pm

re: #1210 Chekote

Let's say that Van Jones gets fired. What would that achieve? I just don't get this drive to just draw blood without a strategy to win the war.

Forcing him out would humiliate Obama by forcing him to cave under pressure. I also favor working to force Jones out because I don't think a commie like him should be holding public office. I do not, however, think he is a troofer.

1224 leftover54  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:17:08pm

re: #1048 MJ

No mention of Halliburton or Rove ? What gives ?

1225 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:17:09pm

re: #1181 tradewind

And claiming ' it's a theoretical, abstract discussion ' is not always an adequate cover for a position that one actively endorses among friends but wishes to be able to disavow when publicly questioned.

Point to any policies or decisions Holdren has made while in office that lend any credence to your hysterical paranoid fantasies about his 'real agenda'.

Right here in your post we can see the derangement syndrome in action. You claim that his public words and actions are all just proof that he's way sneakier than you thought and they're just further proof that he REALLY believes something else entirely.
There is literally nothing he or anyone can do to convince you otherwise.

1226 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:17:23pm

re: #1210 Chekote

Let's say that Van Jones gets fired. What would that achieve? I just don't get this drive to just draw blood without a strategy to win the war.

It's a scorched earth policy. The only goal is to destroy the opponent, even if it destroys them at the same time.

It's a pathetic strategy of losers.

1227 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:17:40pm

re: #1213 Sharmuta

re: #1208 Yankee Zionist

The Next Right, New Majority are also trying to do the same. Perhaps they should create a coalition to chase this nutty element out of the party.


And thank God someone is doing this. If not for Charles- who would be providing this service to the right?

1228 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:17:43pm

re: #1221 SanFranciscoZionist

I have a zombie kit. It's next to my earthquake kit.

Given your location, I would be more careful with your earthquake kit. BTW, you are set for water, aren't you? I had a friend who was at her grandparents' house during the Pria Loma earthquake. The gps' had water for them, but not for the grandkids. They had to buy it at $20 gallon.

I just like to nag about these things. ;)

1229 Yankee Zionist  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:18:19pm

re: #1193 Charles

Truthers are known to get people to sign their documents and appear at their events under false pretenses.

They lie about what they do. If Van Jones says he didn't know what the document was really about if/when he signed it, I'll believe him LONG before I'll believe 9/11 Truthers.

And his claim is backed up by the fact that there is absolutely no other evidence in any statements he has ever made on record that he believes in Trutherism.

None.

Zero. Zip. Nada. No evidence.

The lack of any statements re Trutherism is one reason why I am willing to believe he is not a Truther per se.

1230 tradewind  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:18:23pm

re: #1186 Sharmuta

I'm not being deposed, sorry. You'll have to take a crack at cross examining another witness.

1231 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:18:28pm

re: #1226 Charles

It's a scorched earth policy. There is no objective to it. The only goal is to destroy the opponent, even if it destroys them at the same time.

It's a pathetic strategy of losers.

It was detailed in a book that was released in the 90s and passed around in a number of GOP circles.

1232 Van Helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:18:36pm

re: #1206 haakondahl

I say we nuke them from orbit.


Naww, from orbit you just drop rocks on 'em.
Why waste a good nuke when a kinetic strike will do the job?

Well, I screwed THAT up first time around.
Bedtime. G'Nite

1233 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:19:04pm

re: #1230 tradewind

I'm not being deposed, sorry. You'll have to take a crack at cross examining another witness.

You made the claim he endorsed this position. It's not true and you have no proof of your claim. It's utter bullshit.

1234 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:19:35pm

re: #1221 SanFranciscoZionist

I have a zombie kit. It's next to my earthquake kit.

Just live in a 2+ story house or apartment. Zombies cant climb up stairs or operate elevator controls.

1235 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:19:45pm

re: #1223 Dark_Falcon

re: #1210 Chekote


Forcing him out would humiliate Obama by forcing him to cave under pressure. I also favor working to force Jones out because I don't think a commie like him should be holding public office. I do not, however, think he is a troofer.

If sitting in that racist, anti-semitic, America hating church for 20 years didn't humiliate Obama, it is unlikely that firing Jones will. I rather defeat his socialized medicine and other policies which will harm this country.

1236 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:19:51pm

re: #1200 iceweasel

Jimmah-ski! In hysterics. I think I love you. :)

By the way-- we can check here: Do you have swine flu?

I think it's mutual :)

And yes, I have swine flu.

1237 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:20:36pm

re: #1215 van helsing

Naww, from orbit you just drop rocks on 'em.
Why waste a good nuke when a kinetic strike will do the job?

It's the only way to be sure.

/Thank you!

1238 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:21:13pm

re: #1197 opnion

No I'm not. The facts are in dispute, but an eye witness tells a story of the old guy being threatened. If that is case then he was assaulted ,no matter who likes the definition.

You are basing your "eyewitness account" on the account of a (in your words) kid who called into a talk radio show. There were only a tiny few anti-Obamacare protesters there. Which of these are "the kid".

And you are ignoring the fact that Pinky-Man has admitted that he threw punches without any physical provocation. Your argument is bogus, and you are twisting like mad to defend an unprovoked assault.

1239 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:21:20pm

re: #1231 Sharmuta

It was detailed in a book that was released in the 90s and passed around in a number of GOP circles.

Sorry- should have linked the book.

1240 tradewind  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:21:22pm

re: #1225 iceweasel

I was speaking generally. You're way overreaching in your supposed understanding of my comment.
But hey, you've got company.

1241 Irish Rose  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:21:42pm

Well lizards, it's 1:20am and my brain requires a rest before sleep.
Catch ya'll on the DT.

Play nice... no biting.

1242 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:22:10pm

re: #1226 Charles

I just so tired of these mindless attacks. If the GOP wants to come back, it needs to focus on a few issues. Develop a new agenda.

1243 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:22:30pm

re: #1226 Charles

It's a scorched earth policy. The only goal is to destroy the opponent, even if it destroys them at the same time.

I think its just typical American politics since oh about George Washington's administration.

1244 eddiespaghetti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:22:33pm

I agree with Krauthammer, he's gone by Monday. He deserves this for his actions in totality. Good riddance.

1245 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:22:43pm

re: #1231 Sharmuta

It was detailed in a book that was released in the 90s and passed around in a number of GOP circles.

That is a strategy both sides seem to use these days. It is not the exclusive property of the right. I can remember many more "personal destructions" done by the hands of the left than the right.

1246 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:22:46pm

Right wing blogs are universally accepting the word of 9/11 Truthers tonight over Van Jones' statement that he's not a Truther.

Color me gobsmacked.

1247 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:22:59pm

re: #1231 Sharmuta

re: #1226 Charles


It was detailed in a book that was released in the 90s and passed around in a number of GOP circles.


What book?

1248 Lee Coller  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:23:14pm

When I first checked the internet archive to see if Van Jones name had been on this list from the beginning I failed to notice that he was at position 47 originally and at position 46 in the current incarnation of the list. Comparing names, the missing name is Rachel Ehrenfeld, PhD author of Funding Evil; How Terrorism is Financed and How to Stop It.

Checking further I found this statement:

PLEASE NOTE: Dr. Rachel Ehrenfeld is not a signatory of the 911Truth.org. She has asked several times to have her named removed from the list, but the organization failed to comply.

1249 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:23:25pm

re: #1247 Chekote

see 1239

1250 tradewind  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:23:41pm

re: #1233 Sharmuta

Please show me a post where I cited a specific decision. I was generalizing.
Why not just accept and dissect a post without rewriting it next time?

1251 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:23:53pm

re: #1248 Lee Coller

When I first checked the internet archive to see if Van Jones name had been on this list from the beginning I failed to notice that he was at position 47 originally and at position 46 in the current incarnation of the list. Comparing names, the missing name is Rachel Ehrenfeld, PhD author of Funding Evil; How Terrorism is Financed and How to Stop It.

Checking further I found this statement:

Gee, what do you know.

You mean Truthers lie?

Go figure.

1252 Pingemi  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:24:08pm

Charles it has now been 2 1/2 since you first suggested that I supported the BNP and 2 hours and ten minutes since I first requested a retraction. I have repeated these requests several times and have been totally ignored.

I now formally request an apology from you for the suggestion that I support the BNP or that I wrote in the support of the BNP on a post on this blog. I further formally request a retraction of your comment # 369.

It is now 1:18 a.m. here in Massachusetts, I'll wait another 12 minutes or so and if I receive no reply I will demand both the apology and a retraction from a post I have written on my own blog which will go up at that time. If I receive satisfaction before that time I will delete said post unpublished.

As this is your blog and it is certainly your right to ignore me if you so choose. That's why I have phrased this as a request. It's your blog and your rules but I won't be called a supporter of a Racist/Fascist group like the BNP without answering such a slander.

1253 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:24:41pm

re: #1207 JacksonTn

IW .. with fifty cent words ... I cannot compete with you ... but I can tell you that I recognize you and what you are doing ... there are many things that will be revealed and not by some crazy person on television ... it will come ...

I await the day ...

Sure babe. Admission that you got no game and have no truck with those fancy words, vague intimations of some dark conspiracy --"i recognise you and what you are doing", and vague, ominous threats that 'many things will be revealed', coupled with an admission of waiting for the day. End times?

Is this your audition tape for the Glenn Beck show?

1254 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:24:46pm

re: #1203 Irish Rose

Oy, what a day here at LGF.
All this hostility... I think I need a second bottle of Magners.

Please do not mistake spirited debate for hostility. Speaking for myself only, I can honestly state that I am feeling no hostility towards anyone or anything.

/except for marshmallow peeps. I freaking hate those creepy things.
//

1255 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:24:59pm

re: #1246 Charles

Right wing blogs are universally accepting the word of 9/11 Truthers tonight over Van Jones statement that he's not a Truther.

Color me gobsmacked.

I stopped going to RedState. I am about to drop Hot Air because they feed to much red meat all day long.

1256 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:25:01pm

re: #1239 Sharmuta

Sorry- should have linked the book.

Horowitz took what he learned as a radical leftist and applied it to his new found conservatism.

1257 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:25:23pm

re: #1250 tradewind

Please show me a post where I cited a specific decision. I was generalizing.
Why not just accept and dissect a post without rewriting it next time?

I didn't say you cited a position. You said this:

And claiming ' it's a theoretical, abstract discussion ' is not always an adequate cover for a position that one actively endorses among friends but wishes to be able to disavow when publicly questioned.

I followed up for proof of the bolded section. You have nothing.

1258 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:25:54pm

re: #1246 Charles

Right wing blogs are universally accepting the word of 9/11 Truthers tonight over Van Jones' statement that he's not a Truther.

Color me gobsmacked.

Screw both sides.

1259 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:26:00pm

re: #1256 Desert Dog

Horowitz took what he learned as a radical leftist and applied it to his new found conservatism.

He's not a conservative- he's still proud of being a radical. Note the title of the book.

1260 Dreader1962  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:26:16pm

re: #1238 Slumbering Behemoth

You are basing your "eyewitness account" on the account of a (in your words) kid who called into a talk radio show. There were only a tiny few anti-Obamacare protesters there. Which of these are "the kid".

And you are ignoring the fact that Pinky-Man has admitted that he threw punches without any physical provocation. Your argument is bogus, and you are twisting like mad to defend an unprovoked assault.

Also, what if the next time an anti-Obama protester 'gets in the face' of an Obama supporter (and we've seen it happen on video), the Obama guy punches first? Where will the criticism be? Then of course we'll see these same people twist in the wind and say that what the anti-Obama protester said and did doesn't justify punching.

People need to let this one go. Rice is not a hero. As a matter of fact, based on what I saw of him on the video, he's an idiot.

1261 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:26:16pm

re: #1235 Chekote

If sitting in that racist, anti-semitic, America hating church for 20 years didn't humiliate Obama, it is unlikely that firing Jones will. I rather defeat his socialized medicine and other policies which will harm this country.

As would I. I think that slinging mud at Jones can be useful as part of an overall strategy to slime the administration. But I agree that the primary effort must be on stopping Obamacare. We cannot afford to take our eye off the ball. For that reason, we should probably fling some mud at Van Jones and move on.

1262 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:26:22pm

re: #1252 Pingemi

If you say you weren't supporting the BNP, I accept your word on it.

1263 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:26:24pm

re: #1225 iceweasel

Point to any policies or decisions Holdren has made while in office that lend any credence to your hysterical paranoid fantasies about his 'real agenda'.

Dude's a creep. But no thats not a fire-able offense so he should be able to keep his job IMO.

1264 Dreader1962  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:27:13pm

re: #1252 Pingemi

Has anyone been paying attention to this guy? Watch out, Charles, he's about to 'demand' an apology!

1265 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:27:24pm

re: #1256 Desert Dog

Horowitz took what he learned as a radical leftist and applied it to his new found conservatism.

Also- turning radical leftist tactics into right wing tactics is what's wrong with the right at this moment.

1266 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:27:31pm

re: #1222 opnion

Ok, you got me I am sitting in this hotel room in Kansas frothing.
I am sure that you meant no insult as you have special powers to know these things.Yes I do believe what I'm saying, because we are not talking about the facts per se, just an established legal principal in all courts.
There is nothing that I can do to make you accept what you will not accedpy so, I'll just continue to froth & marvel at your special powers.
Right.

You miss my point, which in turn makes my point, re-read the thread once you have calmed down and you will understand.

1267 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:27:53pm

re: #1252 Pingemi

And by the way, if you feel you need to post something at your blog about it, go right ahead.

1268 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:28:06pm

Must be a full moon tonight. Sucker punch after the Boise State game!

1269 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:28:28pm

re: #1259 Sharmuta

He's not a conservative- he's still proud of being a radical. Note the title of the book.

He's certainly not a liberal now, he is a conservative in every way except name. He has basically disowned most of the mantra on the left now.

1270 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:28:34pm

Sharmuta,

From the book description: "Horiwitz urges Republicans to go on the offensive, to take back issues that Clinton Democrats have co-opted, to reach out to working people and minorities, and to master images, symbols and sound bites as the Democrats have done. " Sounds like good advice to me. But that's not what the GOP and other right wing blogs are doing.

1271 Banner  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:28:38pm

Oh well, he said he didn't do it, and if he did, he didn't mean it, and if he meant it then, well he doesn't mean it now.

Well that's all right then. I mean, a self professed communist could never LIE to us, now could he?

Sorry, but I don't take his back peddling, I look at all of Obama's associates and there is definitely something rotten in the state of Denmark.

1272 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:28:40pm

re: #1246 Charles

Not surprising, is it?

Considering what goes on right-wing websites... from FR just a few minutes ago:

Freedom of Association is supposed to be party of the Constitution but white people are currently not allowed to declare their neighborhoods “for whites only”.


9 posted on September 3, 2009 8:26:49 PM PDT by American Silver Eagle

What was it Van Jones said about the suburbs?

1273 tradewind  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:29:41pm

re: #1257 Sharmuta

I never wanted ' nothing'. I wasn't talking about Holdren in particular, which seems to continue to elude your comprehension.
Carry on with this if you like, but I'm done with it.
Gatekeeping must be so exhausting for you...

1274 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:29:49pm

re: #1265 Sharmuta

Also- turning radical leftist tactics into right wing tactics is what's wrong with the right at this moment.

The gotcha mentality is fueling the polarization. I hate the present state of politics in the USA. It's all depressing.

1275 Pingemi  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:29:49pm

re: #1262 Charles

That's good enough for me. Per my promise I am now deleting my draft post on my blog unpublished.

1276 HelloDare  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:30:06pm

Palate cleanser:

1277 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:30:07pm

re: #1252 Pingemi

Charles it has now been 2 1/2 since you first suggested that I supported the BNP and 2 hours and ten minutes since I first requested a retraction. I have repeated these requests several times and have been totally ignored.

I now formally request an apology from you for the suggestion that I support the BNP or that I wrote in the support of the BNP on a post on this blog. I further formally request a retraction of your comment # 369.

It is now 1:18 a.m. here in Massachusetts, I'll wait another 12 minutes or so and if I receive no reply I will demand both the apology and a retraction from a post I have written on my own blog which will go up at that time. If I receive satisfaction before that time I will delete said post unpublished.

As this is your blog and it is certainly your right to ignore me if you so choose. That's why I have phrased this as a request. It's your blog and your rules but I won't be called a supporter of a Racist/Fascist group like the BNP without answering such a slander.

Duelling has come back into fashion.

1278 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:30:07pm

re: #1271 Banner

Oh well, he said he didn't do it, and if he did, he didn't mean it, and if he meant it then, well he doesn't mean it now.

Well that's all right then. I mean, a self professed communist could never LIE to us, now could he?

Sorry, but I don't take his back peddling, I look at all of Obama's associates and there is definitely something rotten in the state of Denmark.

No. He said he NEVER believed in Trutherism. There's no need to distort his comments. If you'd prefer to take the word of 9/11 Truthers, go ahead.

1279 JacksonTn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:30:18pm

re: #1253 iceweasel

Sure babe. Admission that you got no game and have no truck with those fancy words, vague intimations of some dark conspiracy --"i recognise you and what you are doing", and vague, ominous threats that 'many things will be revealed', coupled with an admission of waiting for the day. End times?

Is this your audition tape for the Glenn Beck show?

IW ... you are a silly silly person ... Glenn Beck? ... I don't need a television person to tell me about what is going on in this country ... I see it every dang day ... when I live my life ... run my businesses and write checks for my payroll ... you must be assuming that since I don't respond to you in a way that you would deem more appropriate that I don't know what i am talking about ... just go ahead and keep thinking like that ... but I still see you for what you are ...

You may think that I am a far right person but then ... you would be wrong ... I just call it how I see it ... if you have a problem with that then ... well ... I don't really care ... so you just march on ...

1280 solomonpanting  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:30:46pm

re: #1250 tradewind

Please show me a post where I cited a specific decision. I was generalizing.
Why not just accept and dissect a post without rewriting it next time?

S'matter? Don't you realize when you've run smack into the tip of an iceweasel?

OMG, did I say that? Erase, erase.

1281 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:30:57pm

re: #1270 Chekote

Sharmuta,

From the book description: "Horiwitz urges Republicans to go on the offensive, to take back issues that Clinton Democrats have co-opted, to reach out to working people and minorities, and to master images, symbols and sound bites as the Democrats have done. " Sounds like good advice to me. But that's not what the GOP and other right wing blogs are doing.

This is the sort of thing inside the book:

Politics is war conducted by other means:
In political warfare you do not fight just to prevail in an argument, but rather to destroy the enemy's fighting ability.[...]

Even if you had time to develop an argument, the audience you need to reach (the undecided and those in the middle who are not paying much attention) would not get it. Your words would go over some of their heads and the rest would not even hear them (or quickly forget) amidst the bustle and pressure of daily life.

Politics is a war of position:
Choose the terrain that makes the fight as easy for you as possible.

In political warfare, the aggressor usually prevails.
By striking first, you can define the issues as well as your adversary. Defining the opposition is the decisive move in all political war.

Position is defined by fear and hope.
When and how to use fear is a political art.

The weapons of politics are symbols evoking fear and hope.
With these audiences, you will never have time for real arguments or proper analyses. Images—symbols and sound bites—will always prevail.

Victory lies on the side of the people.
You must define yourself in ways that people understand. You must give people hope in your victory, and make them fear the victory of your opponent.

If you think following Rules for Radicals- Right Wing Version is a good idea, please use the link I provided so LGF gets a cut.

1282 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:31:00pm

re: #1272 freetoken

Not surprising, is it?

Considering what goes on right-wing websites... from FR just a few minutes ago:

What was it Van Jones said about the suburbs?

Wow. Free Republic is now supporting the BNP.

1283 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:31:00pm

re: #1238 Slumbering Behemoth

You are basing your "eyewitness account" on the account of a (in your words) kid who called into a talk radio show. There were only a tiny few anti-Obamacare protesters there. Which of these are "the kid".

And you are ignoring the fact that Pinky-Man has admitted that he threw punches without any physical provocation. Your argument is bogus, and you are twisting like mad to defend an unprovoked assault.

This is now silly, the same thing over & over. I said that the facts are in dispute. I have said several times that this is the account that I heard from somebody claiming to be an eye witness.
I said that if his acoountis true that the old man had cause to fear violence.
I said "if", you on the other hand using other wordly powers say definitively that the attack was unprovoked.
If the kid & I mean young adult is correct it was provoked, if not it wasn't , but you don't know.
Believe me when I tell you, I am not twisting like mad to convince you of anything & I doubt that anything could.

1284 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:31:41pm

re: #1228 EmmmieG

Given your location, I would be more careful with your earthquake kit. BTW, you are set for water, aren't you? I had a friend who was at her grandparents' house during the Pria Loma earthquake. The gps' had water for them, but not for the grandkids. They had to buy it at $20 gallon.

I just like to nag about these things. ;)

We're decent, but could be better--I'm trying to figure out a good water storage strategy for a fairly small apartment.

I'm quite proud of my rotary dial phone, though.

1285 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:31:44pm

re: #1274 Desert Dog

The gotcha mentality is fueling the polarization. I hate the present state of politics in the USA. It's all depressing.

I think the last person we should take advice from is a has been marxist.

1286 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:31:46pm

re: #1255 Chekote

I stopped going to RedState. I am about to drop Hot Air because they feed to much red meat all day long.

Years ago.

1287 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:32:04pm

re: #1270 Chekote

Sharmuta,

From the book description: "Horiwitz urges Republicans to go on the offensive, to take back issues that Clinton Democrats have co-opted, to reach out to working people and minorities, and to master images, symbols and sound bites as the Democrats have done. " Sounds like good advice to me. But that's not what the GOP and other right wing blogs are doing.

No, instead they work themselves into frenzies over conspiracy theories. We need to move away from that and focus.

Memo to all who believe all these loony theories: If you want to stop whatever you think Obama is up to, work on defeating his agenda. Wreck his public agenda and he'll be stopped. Ignore the esoterica and craziness and go after Obamacare, calmly and relentlessly.

1288 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:32:34pm

re: #1261 Dark_Falcon

re: #1235 Chekote


As would I. I think that slinging mud at Jones can be useful as part of an overall strategy to slime the administration. But I agree that the primary effort must be on stopping Obamacare. We cannot afford to take our eye off the ball. For that reason, we should probably fling some mud at Van Jones and move on.

Same strategy was pursued in the 90s against Clinton. Whitewater, FBI files, Travelgate, Vince Foster, Cattle Futures, Paula Jones, Lewinski and Clinton came out smelling like a rose. Why? Clinton kept talking about helping people with their problems while the GOP came across as more interested in scandals. The same will happen with Obama if they keep up this "let's draw blood, even if it is two drops, strategy".

1289 Pingemi  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:32:56pm

Nope the post was simply anger over the suggestion that I supported the BNP. Reasonable people such as you and Zombie and I would hope myself can disagree on Jones; that's not a big deal to me, that's debate between people but the BNP business, that was personal to me, it's why I'm up way past my bedtime.

As that's now resolved, Goodnight all.

1290 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:33:14pm

re: #1266 Bagua

You miss my point, which in turn makes my point, re-read the thread once you have calmed down and you will understand.


ya know, I am not in a lather, but if it pleases you , just think that

1291 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:33:59pm

re: #1273 tradewind

I never wanted ' nothing'. I wasn't talking about Holdren in particular, which seems to continue to elude your comprehension.
Carry on with this if you like, but I'm done with it.
Gatekeeping must be so exhausting for you...

I'm not "gatekeeping". I'm asking for you to back up your claim. You can't.

1292 Desert Dog  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:34:46pm

re: #1285 Sharmuta

I think the last person we should take advice from is a has been marxist.

Yes, I agree, we should not pay attention to Van Jones...he is whacked!
:-)

Good night...I am off to sleep

Quick someone start a pun line...post something about body parts...bodily noises...anything to cut the tension in this thread...

nite all

1293 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:34:52pm

re: #1284 SanFranciscoZionist

We're decent, but could be better--I'm trying to figure out a good water storage strategy for a fairly small apartment.

I'm quite proud of my rotary dial phone, though.

I have 72 bottles of water for mine. I think that should be enough to last until either the water is turned on, or I determine I have to go on an extended vacation with out-of-state friends or relatives.

1294 eddiespaghetti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:35:35pm

Well, FWIW, I do respect Charles' universal disdain for 9-11 truthers and their 'word'. An oxymoron if there ever was one.

1295 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:35:58pm

British National Party Forced To Admit Non-Whites

To: Steelfish
So it's sort of clear, isn't it?
Force will be used against the whiteys whenever they try to assert their nationality.

Funny, don't see anybody doing that to Mugabe and Zimbabwe.

12 posted on September 3, 2009 9:23:47 PM PDT by Regulator (Welcome to Zimbabwe! Now hand over your property)

1296 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:36:09pm

re: #1292 Desert Dog

Funny no one worries about has been marxists when they're "on" our side.

1297 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:36:12pm

re: #1029 JacksonTn

Jimmah ... I don't care if I get banned for this ... but you are a fucking asshole for saying that ... a real fucking asshole ...

and really now goodnight ...

Woa...nasty.

Jackson...where's the lubov?

1298 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:36:49pm

re: #1296 Sharmuta

Funny no one worries about has been marxists when they're "on" our side.

Such as... Horowitz.

1299 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:37:07pm

re: #1282 Charles

Wow. Free Republic is now supporting the BNP.

The White Nationalism on that site is ugly.

I hate Freeper Nazis!

1300 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:37:10pm

re: #1295 Charles

They've gone VDARE/Stormfront.

1301 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:37:26pm

re: #1285 Sharmuta

I think the last person we should take advice from is a has been marxist.

You mean like a lot of people in and around Washington? I'm with you.

1302 tradewind  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:38:18pm

re: #1280 solomonpanting
:)
And not a minesweeper in sight.
In other news, the WaPo has called for Good Time Charley to step down.
Over/unders?
[Link: www.ny1.com...]

1303 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:38:19pm

re: #1301 haakondahl

You mean like a lot of people in and around Washington? I'm with you.

I'm worried about the ones in our ranks, Dear. They may have changed parties, but it doesn't mean they've changed visions...

1304 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:38:20pm

re: #1289 Pingemi

Nope the post was simply anger over the suggestion that I supported the BNP. Reasonable people such as you and Zombie and I would hope myself can disagree on Jones; that's not a big deal to me, that's debate between people but the BNP business, that was personal to me, it's why I'm up way past my bedtime.

As that's now resolved, Goodnight all.

Goodnight, Pingemi.

1305 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:38:31pm

re: #1270 Chekote

Sounds like good advice to me. But that's not what the GOP and other right wing blogs are doing.

The GOP is a ship with no rudder drifting off course fast and Captain Steele is hiding in his quarters.

1306 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:38:46pm

Defining the opposition is the decisive move in all political war.

I agree. But let's face it. The GOP tried to define Obama as a radical during the campaign (all the talk about Ayers and Wright) and it didn't work. Screaming louder is not going to work and has the potential of creating sympathy for Obama. The guy has charm. He is likeable. He is just WRONG and INEXPERIENCED. If the GOP wants to win, they need to attack his bad policies and stop fooling around with fulfilling Beck's paranoid fantasies about Obama becoming a dictator.

1307 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:38:52pm

By the way, LGF's traffic is way up lately. For the past three weeks, we've been over 100,000 pageviews every single day.

1308 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:39:16pm

re: #1307 Charles

Congratulations!

1309 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:39:34pm

re: #1275 Pingemi

That's good enough for me. Per my promise I am now deleting my draft post on my blog unpublished.

And the world keeps turning.

1310 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:39:38pm

re: #1307 Charles

By the way, LGF's traffic is way up lately. For the past three weeks, we've been over 100,000 pageviews every single day.

Congrats. Excellent blog. Keep fighting the good fight soldier of reason.

1311 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:39:57pm

re: #1290 opnion

ya know, I am not in a lather, but if it pleases you , just think that

I am not insisting on my position, rather, making an observation. That you are still chuntering on about the same issue hours later does little to counter my contention that you were riled up.

1312 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:39:58pm

re: #1307 Charles

By the way, LGF's traffic is way up lately. For the past three weeks, we've been over 100,000 pageviews every single day.

Not surprising. A lotta shit's going on.

1313 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:40:10pm

Goodnight all, watch your fingers.

1314 brandon13  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:40:11pm

re: #1307 Charles

By the way, LGF's traffic is way up lately. For the past three weeks, we've been over 100,000 pageviews every single day.

Everyone is coming here for their dose of political sanity. It doesn't exist elsewhere.

1315 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:40:15pm

President Obama's speech to students outrages Oklahoma GOP legislators

...

State Sen. Randy Brogdon, R-Owasso, said he is concerned because Obama is to address such topics as global warming, environmental conservation and other social issues.

"President Obama's topics are best left for parents to talk about with their children, not the president of the United States," said Brogdon, who is running for governor in 2010.

...

Brogdon is running for the GOP nomination for OK Gov in the 2010 election. He also happens to be friends with Alex Jones and rants and raves about the NAU conspiracy. Oh, and he has issues with certain scientific ideas too.

Will he get the nod to be the GOP candidate?

1316 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:40:33pm

re: #1236 Jimmah

And yes, I have swine flu.

So long as we both do, I won't panic. ;)

1317 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:40:44pm

re: #1312 TheMatrix31

Not surprising. A lotta shit's going on.

My theory is more people are coming here because this is the only sane right of center blog.

1318 Walk Not So Softly  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:41:10pm

re: #852 Charles

By the way, people who believe strongly in crazy ideas like 9/11 Trutherism or creationism have been documented to mislead people into signing their idiotic petitions. I don't know what really happened here, but it's entirely possible this petition was presented as an innocuous call for more investigations into the 9/11 attacks -- specifically to get people to sign on who would otherwise turn and run if they knew the true agenda.

These kinds of groups pull this crap ALL the time.

Be that as it may; I have yet to see anyone else from the list complain that their name was signed or listed under false pretense. You have no proof of this.

1319 van helsing  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:41:15pm

re: #1285 Sharmuta

I think the last person we should take advice from is a has been marxist.

I agree. I just with Obama would do the same.

1320 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:41:18pm

re: #1314 brandon13

Everyone is coming here for their dose of political sanity. It doesn't exist elsewhere.

GMTA

1321 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:41:34pm

re: #1317 Sharmuta

My theory is more people are coming here because this is the only sane right of center blog.

Are there any others anymore?

1322 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:41:41pm

re: #1305 Mich-again

re: #1270 Chekote


The GOP is a ship with no rudder drifting off course fast and Captain Steele is hiding in his quarters.

I had a lot of hope for Steele but he was effectively neutered after Rush slapped him down and Steele took it.

1323 Syrah  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:41:48pm

re: #1307 Charles

By the way, LGF's traffic is way up lately. For the past three weeks, we've been over 100,000 pageviews every single day.

Are they coming from any particular source? Is there a pattern?

1324 opnion  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:41:53pm

re: #1311 Bagua

I am not insisting on my position, rather, making an observation. That you are still chuntering on about the same issue hours later does little to counter my contention that you were riled up.


I am only responding, but point taken. Time to let it go, good night.

1325 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:42:13pm

re: #1318 Walk Not So Softly

Be that as it may; I have yet to see anyone else from the list complain that their name was signed or listed under false pretense. You have no proof of this.

Please see:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

1326 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:42:30pm

Boise State has defeated the Oregon Quack Attack on a field the color of Smurfs, and Utah has beaten the other Mormons at Utah State by a score of 35-17.

Rumor has it that the boosters of the two schools may have to trade many wives based on the results.

;-)

Break out the champagne! (Except in Utah.) College football has begun!

1327 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:42:31pm

re: #1315 freetoken

President Obama's speech to students outrages Oklahoma GOP legislators

Brogdon is running for the GOP nomination for OK Gov in the 2010 election. He also happens to be friends with Alex Jones and rants and raves about the NAU conspiracy. Oh, and he has issues with certain scientific ideas too.

Will he get the nod to be the GOP candidate?

Oklahoma, where the wind comes sweeping 'way the brains...

1328 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:43:12pm

re: #1317 Sharmuta

My theory is more people are coming here because this is the only sane right of center blog.

My theory is that more peopel are coming here because this is the only sane blog at all.

1329 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:43:12pm

re: #1282 Charles

Wow. Free Republic is now supporting the BNP.

Wow. I especially love the commentator who bitches that the Constitution guarantees freedom of association, but you can't declare a whites-only neighborhood...

1330 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:43:22pm

re: #1318 Walk Not So Softly

Be that as it may; I have yet to see anyone else from the list complain that their name was signed or listed under false pretense. You have no proof of this.

No need to thank me for providing proof.

1331 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:43:32pm

re: #1306 Chekote

Defining the opposition is the decisive move in all political war.

I agree. But let's face it. The GOP tried to define Obama as a radical during the campaign (all the talk about Ayers and Wright) and it didn't work. Screaming louder is not going to work and has the potential of creating sympathy for Obama. The guy has charm. He is likeable. He is just WRONG and INEXPERIENCED. If the GOP wants to win, they need to attack his bad policies and stop fooling around with fulfilling Beck's paranoid fantasies about Obama becoming a dictator.

Quite Concur.

1332 Yankee Zionist  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:43:42pm

re: #1318 Walk Not So Softly

Be that as it may; I have yet to see anyone else from the list complain that their name was signed or listed under false pretense. You have no proof of this.

I think you might be wrong. I raised this issue above and subsequently, someone has posted believable information that indicates Rachel Ehrenfield's name was removed from the list. My guess is that she complained.

1333 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:43:57pm

re: #1321 Mich-again

Are there any others anymore?

Some smaller ones, but among the biggies- I don't think so.

(Gotta give props to lawhawk though- he's solid.)

1334 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:44:12pm

Some associated information. Van Jones is an Associate Director of Green Jobs. This is under the Council on Environmental Quality (CEQ) that is chaired by Nancy Sutley. The word czar is actually misused because this council was part of the National Environmetal Policy Act of 1969, Title II which in part reads:

TITLE II
COUNCIL ON ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY

Sec. 202 [42 USC § 4342]. There is created in the Executive Office of the President a Council on Environmental Quality (hereinafter referred to as the "Council"). The Council shall be composed of three members who shall be appointed by the President to serve at his pleasure, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate. The President shall designate one of the members of the Council to serve as Chairman. Each member shall be a person who, as a result of his training, experience, and attainments, is exceptionally well qualified to analyze and interpret environmental trends and information of all kinds; to appraise programs and activities of the Federal Government in the light of the policy set forth in title I of this Act; to be conscious of and responsive to the scientific, economic, social, aesthetic, and cultural needs and interests of the Nation; and to formulate and recommend national policies to promote the improvement of the quality of the environment.

Sec. 203 [42 USC § 4343]. (a) The Council may employ such officers and employees as may be necessary to carry out its functions under this Act. In addition, the Council may employ and fix the compensation of such experts and consultants as may be necessary for the carrying out of its functions under this Act, in accordance with section 3109 of title 5, United States Code (but without regard to the last sentence thereof).

(b) Notwithstanding section 1342 of Title 31, the Council may accept and employ voluntary and uncompensated services in furtherance of the purposes of the Council.

The duties read as such:

Sec. 204 [42 USC § 4344]. It shall be the duty and function of the Council --

(1) to assist and advise the President in the preparation of the Environmental Quality Report required by section 201 [42 USC § 4341] of this title;
(2) to gather timely and authoritative information concerning the conditions and trends in the quality of the environment both current and prospective, to analyze and interpret such information for the purpose of determining whether such conditions and trends are interfering, or are likely to interfere, with the achievement of the policy set forth in title I of this Act, and to compile and submit to the President studies relating to such conditions and trends;
(3) to review and appraise the various programs and activities of the Federal Government in the light of the policy set forth in title I of this Act for the purpose of determining the extent to which such programs and activities are contributing to the achievement of such policy, and to make recommendations to the President with respect thereto;
(4) to develop and recommend to the President national policies to foster and promote the improvement of environmental quality to meet the conservation, social, economic, health, and other requirements and goals of the Nation;
(5) to conduct investigations, studies, surveys, research, and analyses relating to ecological systems and environmental quality;
(6) to document and define changes in the natural environment, including the plant and animal systems, and to accumulate necessary data and other information for a continuing analysis of these changes or trends and an interpretation of their underlying causes;
(7) to report at least once each year to the President on the state and condition of the environment; and
(8) to make and furnish such studies, reports thereon, and recommendations with respect to matters of policy and legislation as the President may request.
1335 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:44:12pm

re: #1326 austin_blue

Boise State has defeated the Oregon Quack Attack on a field the color of Smurfs

And a player from Boise State got sucker punched after the game and he didn't even bite off the puncher's finger!

1336 Occasional Reader  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:44:13pm

Interesting thread.

I'm just a little surprised at one thing:

re: #271 Charles

That statement from STORM was released weeks after 9/11, when no one knew the full story. Lots of people were talking about the "bombing" of the World Trade Center then.

Huh?

"Weeks" after 9/11, were there any remotely SANE people who thought the WTC had been "bombed"?!

1337 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:44:31pm

Do we even know what Obama plans to say to the students? I would object on the basis that Obama needs to stop the speeches, stop the photo ops and start governing.

1338 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:44:34pm

re: #1324 opnion

I am only responding, but point taken. Time to let it go, good night.

Yes, good night to you as well.

1339 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:44:53pm

re: #1260 Dreader1962

Certainly. It's an intellectually dishonest double standard. And likely to come from those that profess to despise double standards. Hypocrites.

Living here in California as I have most of my life, I've seen this kind of "defend the attacker" crap from leftists plenty of times. My stance has always been that whoever starts the violence gets exactly what they deserve, and I am not changing my stance in this case.

The incident I mentioned upthread, where a man lost his eye when he assaulted (and I mean "assaulted" in the real sense, not the weenie "he called me a name" sense) a woman? He tried to rape her, and she defended herself with mace, irreparably ruining one of his eyes. I said good for her, he had it coming. He doesn't have a right to complain a bit.

Still, he sued her for damages, and the loony leftists in the court awarded him a settlement.

And there are many more disgusting incidences of defending the attacker and blaming the victim here in CA.

Those who defend Pinky-Man are in the same ideological camp as the loony leftists. I don't care if they call themselves right-wing conservatives, they are certainly expressing left-wing loony ideals.

1340 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:45:00pm

re: #1315 freetoken

President Obama's speech to students outrages Oklahoma GOP legislators

Brogdon is running for the GOP nomination for OK Gov in the 2010 election. He also happens to be friends with Alex Jones and rants and raves about the NAU conspiracy. Oh, and he has issues with certain scientific ideas too.

Will he get the nod to be the GOP candidate?

[facepalm] OK GOP = EPIC FAIL

1341 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:45:03pm
1342 Occasional Reader  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:45:07pm

re: #1282 Charles

Wow. Free Republic is now supporting the BNP.

Now THAT doesn't surprise me in the least. The Freepers drifted off in that direction long ago.

1343 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:45:07pm

re: #1328 TheMatrix31

My theory is that more peopel are coming here because this is the only sane blog at all.

No- lawhawk is sane and super smart. And Thanos. But big blogs- yeah. I think this is it.

1344 Mich-again  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:45:10pm

re: #1337 Chekote

Do we even know what Obama plans to say to the students? I would object on the basis that Obama needs to stop the speeches, stop the photo ops and start governing.

Like I said, he needs to worry more about the 535 children in the House and Senate.

1345 TheMatrix31  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:46:08pm

re: #1337 Chekote

Do we even know what Obama plans to say to the students? I would object on the basis that Obama needs to stop the speeches, stop the photo ops and start governing.

I'd rather not have him anywhere near actual decision making and policy.

1346 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:46:17pm

re: #1336 Occasional Reader

Interesting thread.

I'm just a little surprised at one thing:

Huh?

"Weeks" after 9/11, were there any remotely SANE people who thought the WTC had been "bombed"?!

If you really want to debate this, it's not hard to argue that the planes that struck the WTC towers were themselves huge bombs full of jet fuel.

And yes, I still see people referring to the "bombing" of the WTC. It's imprecise, sure, but it's certainly not evidence that these people are Truthers.

1347 tradewind  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:46:41pm

re: #1307 Charles

I think it's so cool that Arts and Letters Daily links to LGF on their blog list. It irks me to see some other supposedly politically neutral mainstream media sites that list Kos or Wonkette , for example, and not LGF.

1348 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:47:54pm

re: #1337 Chekote

Do we even know what Obama plans to say to the students? I would object on the basis that Obama needs to stop the speeches, stop the photo ops and start governing.

Good point. It's likely an effective tactic because I don't think Obama can give specifics and govern without looking like the far lefty he is at heart. Make Obama be Obama and people will turn away from him.

1349 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:47:55pm

Also, the National Environmental Policy Act was signed into law by President Richard Nixon (R) on January 1, 1970.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

1350 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:48:03pm

re: #1337 Chekote

Do we even know what Obama plans to say to the students? I would object on the basis that Obama needs to stop the speeches, stop the photo ops and start governing.

Yes, we do. He's announced it, very clearly. I posted video yesterday. He's going to hypnotize the poor little tykes with commie principles like working hard, setting goals, and staying in school. We're doomed.

1351 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:48:35pm

David Frum at New Majority is another reasonable site that tries to offer different views. But it is full of liberal drones who insist on refighting the rationale for the Iraq War and mindlessly repeat that Bush made us less safe with his policies and completely ignoring that we have not been attacked since 9/11.

1352 tradewind  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:48:46pm

re: #1346 Charles

The worst are the idiots who continue to insist that a cruise missile, not a 767, crashed into the Pentagon. Despite all proof, all evidence, they continue in this, and it makes me want to scream.

1353 Occasional Reader  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:48:56pm

re: #1346 Charles

Okay, so you're saying you think it was just imprecise language, not a belief that high explosive charges were used. Thank you for the clarification.

1354 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:49:24pm

re: #1351 Chekote

David Frum at New Majority is another reasonable site that tries to offer different views. But it is full of liberal drones who insist on refighting the rationale for the Iraq War and mindlessly repeat that Bush made us less safe with his policies and completely ignoring that we have not been attacked since 9/11.

I like what I've read and heard of Frum so far. I'll have to check out that blog.

1355 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:49:26pm

re: #1350 Charles

re: #1337 Chekote


Yes, we do. He's announced it, very clearly. I posted video yesterday. He's going to hypnotize the poor little tykes with commie principles like working hard, setting goals, and staying in school. We're doomed.

Staying in school? OMG!!!

1356 Yankee Zionist  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:49:26pm

Charles:

After posting a number of challenges and seeing them addressed, I'm starting to think you are/were right. He probably didn't sign it, and if he did, it was probably under false pretenses. He got snookered. The Ehrenfield thing was what sealed it for me.

Good night and good luck.

1357 Occasional Reader  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:49:58pm

re: #1352 tradewind

The worst are the idiots who continue to insist that a cruise missile, not a 767, crashed into the Pentagon. Despite all proof, all evidence, they continue in this, and it makes me want to scream.

Well, then, obviously, you're not smart enough to be a French "intellectual".

/

1358 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:49:59pm

re: #1283 opnion

You started here by saying that the biter was the one to initiate physical contact by pulling Pink-Man into the street, which has since been proven wrong, even by Pinky-Man's own account. Since then, you have done nothing but spin.

1359 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:50:20pm

re: #1353 Occasional Reader

And FYI- upthread HelloDare linked a statement from Van Jones (and others) that clearly called the 9/11 attacked "terrorist acts".

1360 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:50:37pm

re: #1354 Sharmuta

re: #1351 Chekote


I like what I've read and heard of Frum so far. I'll have to check out that blog.

PLease come and help fight the idiots who think that the US can withdraw from the world and be safe.

1361 Aye Pod  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:50:47pm

The Rise of the Idiots

1362 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:51:25pm

re: #1326 austin_blue

Boise State has defeated the Oregon Quack Attack on a field the color of Smurfs, and Utah has beaten the other Mormons at Utah State by a score of 35-17.

Rumor has it that the boosters of the two schools may have to trade many wives based on the results.

;-)

Break out the champagne! (Except in Utah.) College football has begun!

Could you be more offensive?

1363 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:51:26pm

Sorry Charles. I don't want you to think that I am whoring for New Majority. I have recommended your site there as have others.

1364 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:52:04pm

re: #1360 Chekote

PLease come and help fight the idiots who think that the US can withdraw from the world and be safe.

Seems Frum disagrees with George Will too

Afghanistan: A Quagmire Worth Fighting For

1365 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:52:27pm

re: #1363 Chekote

Sorry Charles. I don't want you to think that I am whoring for New Majority. I have recommended your site there as have others.

No problem. It's a good site. I don't mind seeing them promoted.

1366 Occasional Reader  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:52:35pm

re: #1359 Sharmuta

And FYI- upthread HelloDare linked a statement from Van Jones (and others) that clearly called the 9/11 attacked "terrorist acts".

I did not say otherwise.

By the way, the fact that Jones was associated with STORM as recently as 2002 is not exactly reassuring.

1367 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:53:17pm

re: #1366 Occasional Reader

Whoa- it was just an FYI for you. Wasn't trying to put words in your mouth at all. Settle down, Sparky.

1368 haakondahl  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:53:18pm

re: #1360 Chekote

PLease come and help fight the idiots who think that the US can withdraw from the world and be safe.

AMEN! Working on a post for Will.

1369 tradewind  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:54:28pm

re: #1357 Occasional Reader

C'est vrai... j'admitte.

1370 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:55:08pm

re: #1360 Chekote

PLease come and help fight the idiots who think that the US can withdraw from the world and be safe.

If I don't show up tomorrow, please remind me. It sounds like a great blog, and I'm very good at beating isolationist arguments.

1371 Occasional Reader  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:55:17pm

Way past my bedtime. Good night.

1372 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:55:21pm

re: #1365 Charles

re: #1363 Chekote


No problem. It's a good site. I don't mind seeing them promoted.

I just feel all of us who want to rescue the GOP from the nuts need to band together so that we can drown their voices. It won't be easy but it has to be done. I want to applaud you for your work on exposing ID and the creationists.

1373 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:55:38pm

BTW, WND of course is on board the Van Jones case (never left a $ unturned.) They even linked to a video they "screened" (their word, evidently they had to screen it to protect the innocent WND-ians from being corrupted) that apparently exposed Van Jones as some sort of great evil.

Well, here is that video. You tell me, is the guy speaking in that video the same scary guy that is the target of all the rage/fear?

See:

1374 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:57:29pm

re: #1361 Jimmah

"Their cool friend made, he’s an idiot too."

Favourited.

1375 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:58:35pm

LGF is getting more traffic because it's a lone voice of sanity on the right and centre, and because people on the left are taking note as well and checking in here.

My guess is that LGF is getting floods of traffic from all across the political spectrum now. I don't believe it's gone unnoticed that this is a great place to talk politics for anyone regardless of political affiliation, and that it's better moderated than any other venue.

My personal prediction is that in one year, or two, LGF will be universally acknowledged as the premiere site to talk politics on the web. Not merely by people on the right, but by those on the left. I predict higher traffic than ever. And it's well-deserved.

1376 JacksonTn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:58:51pm

Iceweasel ... Jimmah ... you live life somewhere else and have your own opinions ... I respect that ... I live this life ... this is my country just like everyone else here ... everyone has their right to their beliefs ... what is happening right now ... in my opinion is not good ...

But ... I promise you ... will wait you out ... we are strong and there are more of us than you might think ... we do not depend on television people to tell us which way the winds blow ... so you just keep going on ... we will still be here ... to clean us the mess ...

1377 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:59:44pm

re: #1336 Occasional Reader

Interesting thread.

I'm just a little surprised at one thing:

Huh?

"Weeks" after 9/11, were there any remotely SANE people who thought the WTC had been "bombed"?!

No. Blown up? Yes. Planes flown into the buidings like airborne Molotov cocktails? Yes. Massive terrorist attack by Sallafists? Yes.

The Bush Admin?

Ummm...no...That would be a no by any sane human. As to whether they fucked the dog by not responding to the August, 2001 Intelligence Briefing, well, this was just unfortunate. It was August. Enough said, raw conclusions.

1378 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 10:59:46pm

re: #1370 Dark_Falcon

re: #1360 Chekote


If I don't show up tomorrow, please remind me. It sounds like a great blog, and I'm very good at beating isolationist arguments.

Great! I have tried to make the point that we have already seen what happens when Afghanistan is left as a failed state. To make the same mistake twice would be unforgivable. Besides, failed states create problems for everybody else. Some are more dangerous than others, true. But they all create instability and problems in their respective regions.

1379 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:00:18pm

re: #1375 iceweasel

LGF is getting more traffic because it's a lone voice of sanity on the right and centre, and because people on the left are taking note as well and checking in here.

My earlier quote:

"Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?" -- "Who will watch the Watchmen?"
-- Juvenal, Satires, VI, 347. circa 128 AD

1380 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:00:57pm

And, Adios, brethren. See you Saturday.

1381 eddiespaghetti  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:01:00pm

re: #1364 Sharmuta

George Will has lost much street cred these days. If we followed his asinine advice, we would have 'lost' Iraq when the going was tough. As Thatcher said "remember, George, this is no time to go wobbly". Apropos, name and all.

1382 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:01:05pm

re: #1376 JacksonTn

Your fixation isn't becoming.

1383 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:01:49pm

re: #1382 Sharmuta

Your fixation isn't becoming.

Is this the "they aren't Americans" claim?

1384 JacksonTn  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:02:41pm

re: #1382 Sharmuta

Your fixation isn't becoming.

S ... and Sharmuta ... I really don't care if you think it is or not ... you have some fixations of your own ... so don't cast stones ...

1385 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:03:41pm

re: #1307 Charles

By the way, LGF's traffic is way up lately. For the past three weeks, we've been over 100,000 pageviews every single day.

Is that good?
I hope that helps with your advertising rates, or something financial?
(I have no idea how this internet blog stuff works)

1386 tradewind  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:04:13pm

re: #1373 freetoken

Uhh, yeah.
The self-deprecating, the mocking of what were his own earlier positions is a weak backpedal from what he has realized is a really rough spot in his road to acceptance.
By the way... if it a Republican was rambling on about Noah and his wife and the coming crisis, as Jones is here, they'd be pilloried as a religious nutjob.

1387 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:04:37pm

re: #1384 JacksonTn

Carry on, then.

1388 lorien1973  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:05:19pm

He's not denying he signed it. He's using the "Um, I totally didn't read it" defense. Which is lame and stupid, of course.

1389 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:05:29pm

I'm going to sign off for the night. I'll be back tomorrow.

1390 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:06:01pm

re: #1389 Dark_Falcon

Goodnight

1391 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:06:35pm

re: #1388 lorien1973

And yet another vote for believing the Troofers.

[groan]

1392 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:06:39pm

re: #1388 lorien1973

He's not denying he signed it. He's using the "Um, I totally didn't read it" defense. Which is lame and stupid, of course.

Yep, some guy's twitter page is TOTALLY a reliable source.

1393 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:07:26pm

re: #1390 Bagua

Goodnight

Sorry, had to hand around to downding the goofball at 1388.

1394 lorien1973  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:07:48pm
Yep, some guy's twitter page is TOTALLY a reliable source.

Yeah. It's only ABC News White house correspondent's twitter page. A real loon, I'm sure.

1395 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:08:30pm

re: #1394 lorien1973

Never mind there is nothing else to tie this man to trooferism. Nothing.

1396 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:10:01pm

re: #1388 lorien1973

He's not denying he signed it. He's using the "Um, I totally didn't read it" defense. Which is lame and stupid, of course.

Yikes, a media hack says:

a source says Jones did not carefully review the language in the petition before agreeing to add his name.

And you rush here to post it as fact?

1397 lorien1973  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:10:43pm

re: #1395 Sharmuta

So signing a petition isn't enough? He clearly signed it - he's admitting as much. But that's not enough to paint him as a troofer?

What else would you like him to do?

1398 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:10:46pm

goodnight for real this time.

1399 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:10:48pm

Wow, this thread is so awesome that people have completely abandoned the Beck thread hours ago.

/shit, shoulda kept my mouth shut.

1400 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:11:16pm

re: #1397 lorien1973

So signing a petition isn't enough? He clearly signed it - he's admitting as much.

Where?

1401 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:11:40pm

re: #1397 lorien1973

So signing a petition isn't enough? He clearly signed it - he's admitting as much. But that's not enough to paint him as a troofer?

What else would you like him to do?

No- an "unnamed source" is saying he signed it. And there isn't any other shred of evidence to support the theory he's a troofer.

1402 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:12:20pm

re: #1394 lorien1973

Yeah. It's only ABC News White house correspondent's twitter page. A real loon, I'm sure.

Indeed, many MSM hacks are loons, others simply lazy, biased and bigoted.

1403 Stickman  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:12:20pm

Signed or not. I've heard enough directly from him that makes me very uncomfortable.

1404 lorien1973  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:12:26pm
And you rush here to post it as fact?

It's the ABC news dept talking to his spokesman. Come on. It's not coming from some random goober online.

Why do you find it so hard to accept that he's obviously a troofer? And, in light of other things he believes this is pretty mainstream in comparison (given that upwards of 30% of democrats think that Bush did plan it)

1405 ckb  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:13:06pm

re: #991 Charles

OK. And if I said I saw Van Jones at George W. Bush rallies, cheering wildly, but I couldn't prove it because my life would be in danger, you'd believe that too?

I'm pretty stunned you do not trust Zombie's word that he has seen Jones at Truther events. The above is pretty much calling him a straight out liar.

Good luck with that.

I read about Jones and read this thread, and what I see is a convincing narrative of a man who would likely subscribe to the truther nonsense in 2004. I see a man who would easily lie about it now to protect the position and power he has been so easily given. I don't see how a reasonable person could conclude otherwise.

In short, if you had given me his history (communist leaning, et. al.) and then asked me if he was likely a truther in 2004, I would have put it at about 95% likely. Wouldn't you? You were the one exposing how mainstream trutherism had become in 2004.

On the truther guy lying - while they are full of crap, I think the one thing they crave most is credibility. This thing was clearly put together to try to boost it. Putting names on it that are false or tricking people to put their names on it is self defeating. Applying the razor, the simple explanation is he signed the damn thing (or agreed on a phone call to add his name or whatever).

1406 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:13:12pm

re: #1404 lorien1973

Why do you find it so hard to accept that he's obviously a troofer?

Maybe because he's stated a number of times he thought 9/11 was a terrorist attack?

1407 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:13:23pm

re: #1373 freetoken

BTW, WND of course is on board the Van Jones case (never left a $ unturned.) They even linked to a video they "screened" (their word, evidently they had to screen it to protect the innocent WND-ians from being corrupted) that apparently exposed Van Jones as some sort of great evil.

Well, here is that video. You tell me, is the guy speaking in that video the same scary guy that is the target of all the rage/fear?

See:

[Video]

David Horowitz of course is a rather well known former Marxist and former Communist Party member. Christopher Hitchens is a former member of a "post-Trotskyite Luxemburgist sect" which is basically international socialism. Robert Bork at an early age was also drawn towards Marxism and socialism during his teen years.

1408 chotii  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:13:58pm

Jackson, please, would you kindly use other punctuation than elipses? I find them so distracting I can hardly read what you write. They distract from what you are saying, and I *want* to read what you are saying. A single comma between thoughts or phrases, and a period at the end of a sentence, is perfect and will help make your posts clear and enjoyable.

1409 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:15:16pm

re: #1403 Stickman

Signed or not. I've heard enough directly from him that makes me very uncomfortable.

That's the point. This troofer petition is just a bogus claim to excite the gullible and keep them busily distracted away from making or recognizing genuine criticism of real policy.

It seems to be working to a certain degree.

1410 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:15:40pm

re: #1403 Stickman

Signed or not. I've heard enough directly from him that makes me very uncomfortable.

So then it's alright then, let loose with any lunacy and slanderous witch hunt.

I stand with Van Jones at the moment, and no I don't support his policies. But I'll not see him tarred and feathered over hysterical nonsense.

1411 leftover54  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:15:56pm

re: #1152 austin_blue

All I know is that I was here for 'Katrina'. After reading
Now Let's Rescue America: Nine Key Steps by Van Jones it would seem that for one to side with Jones is to agree with him that we had no business being in the ME to begin with (I was also here when we went into Iraq). And you will not see the names Ray Nagin or Kathleen Blanco anywhere on the page (link). I know all I need to know about this guy - troofer or not. Zombie is in a tough spot and I'm sure he/she wishes he/she didn't click the 'post this comment' icon so quickly. From what I know of Zombie, I'm 100% willing to believe he/she has a story to tell.
Blow your cover or remain covert ? IMHO I think you should stay in deep cover - you never know what may turn up over the next few days or so.If my vote matters a sh*t to ya, you don't have to prove a thing to me. Stay strong guy/gal !

1412 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:17:07pm

re: #1404 lorien1973

Why do you find it so hard to accept that he's obviously a troofer?

Better question: Why do you find it so easy to accept the allegations of a troofer movement?

1413 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:19:14pm

re: #1412 Slumbering Behemoth

Better question: Why do you find it so easy to accept the allegations of a troofer movement?

And from a Troofer site shown to have forged peoples names as signatories to the petition in question.

1414 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:19:16pm

re: #1405 ckb

I see, so you assume he is "guilty" based upon your analysis that it's something he would likely have done, therefore he must have done it.

1415 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:19:47pm

re: #1414 Bagua

Verdict first, trial second.

1416 freetoken  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:21:03pm

re: #1407 Gus 802

Yes, there are plenty of examples.

In that video Van Jones is making the point that Marxist ideology is fading because it is not filling a need, which Van Jones appears to assign to a spiritual hunger of some sort.

It's a common claim.

My own (unstudied) analysis is that the inherent religiosity of man trumps theoretical discussions such as Marxism.

Van Jones is appealing to some sort of common religious drive. This I suspect is what truly scares the likes of WND - they believe they have cornered the market on religious truth, and that it now appears that President Obama and Van Jones and others are mainstreaming a non-fundamentalist version of religion means that the WND-believers will have tough competition on the religion front.

1417 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:21:19pm

Another "scary" video about Van Jones:

1418 Arbalest  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:21:49pm

It looks like a statement by or about Van Jones and his signature might be issued tomorrow.

Following the latest links from the Hot Air article, and as previously posted upstream on this thread, Jake Tapper Tweets that “a source says Jones did not carefully review the language in the petition before agreeing to add his name."

Link: [Link: twitter.com...]

Tomorrow should be interesting.

1419 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:22:12pm

re: #1415 Sharmuta

Yes, now how did those Witch trials by water go? If she floats she's a Witch so kill her, but if she sinks she's innocent (but dead).

1420 ArchangelMichael  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:23:35pm

re: #1419 Bagua

Yes, now how did those Witch trials by water go? If she floats she's a Witch so kill her, but if she sinks she's innocent (but dead).

If she... weighs the same... as a duck...
Then she's made... of wood
and therefore... a WITCH!

1421 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:24:04pm

Sorry. Link didn't work. Again, another "scary" video from Van Jones:

[Link: www.breitbart.tv...]

1422 ckb  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:25:31pm

re: #1413 ArchangelMichael

And from a Troofer site shown to have forged peoples names as signatories to the petition in question.

The fact they actually removed a name from the list is just as interesting as this person's name being on it in the first place.

1423 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:28:05pm

re: #1419 Bagua

Yes, now how did those Witch trials by water go? If she floats she's a Witch so kill her, but if she sinks she's innocent (but dead).

You missed the part where you're supposed to build a bridge out of her to see if she's a witch, but otherwise you nailed it.

1424 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:29:23pm

re: #1376 JacksonTn

Iceweasel ... Jimmah ... you live life somewhere else

[Video]

Once again, you make unfounded assumptions and assertions. You have no idea where I live.

1425 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:30:06pm

My impressiona about Jones is that is like Tavis Smiley. He talks, talks, talks but makes little sense. And he is hot.

1426 ckb  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:30:14pm

re: #1414 Bagua

I see, so you assume he is "guilty" based upon your analysis that it's something he would likely have done, therefore he must have done it.

Nope, I'm saying it all fits and I think it's much more likely than not that he agreed to put his name on that list. I'm not looking for a firing squad over it, just that it rings true. I could be wrong. But it sure seems like a reasonable conclusion to me.

1427 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:30:29pm

But Tavis is not not. Sorry. It is getting late.

1428 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:31:39pm

re: #1423 Slumbering Behemoth

You missed the part where you're supposed to build a bridge out of her to see if she's a witch, but otherwise you nailed it.

Yes, now that I understand the extent of the idiocy I am have given up all hope.

1429 leftover54  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:33:08pm

re: #1246 Charles

If someone stamped or signed his name they need to come forward and answer for their 'crime'. 'They' know who they are and hopefully their conscience will get the best of 'em. One thing to do the 'signature', quite another thing to watch a man take the blame for something he didn't do - not to mention costing the man his job etc. That isn't right no matter the 'politics'.
Troofers, lets see if they can stand for 'the troof'. On the other hand if anyone of them can attest to witnessing him sign the page, well then they should come forward too.
Until then...it's a big nothing.

1430 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:33:53pm

re: #1426 ckb

Except he's made numerous statements he thinks 9/11 was a terrorist attack!

1431 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:34:09pm
1432 leftover54  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:34:11pm

ps - IMHO.

1433 Bagua  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:34:37pm

re: #1426 ckb

Nope, I'm saying it all fits and I think it's much more likely than not that he agreed to put his name on that list. I'm not looking for a firing squad over it, just that it rings true. I could be wrong. But it sure seems like a reasonable conclusion to me.

Er, you just said "Nope" then made my point again. Interesting.

1434 leftover54  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:35:36pm

re: #1431 The Political Class

It's impossible to keep up with the developments here !
At least if one can only type 3 words per minute.

1435 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:35:40pm

The bright side: We are not talking about death panels ordering the death of Trig.

1436 leftover54  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:37:16pm

re: #1427 Chekote

In fact he's down right Smiley.


/need to lighten' it up here a tad...

1437 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:39:16pm

re: #1411 leftover54

I know all I need to know about this guy - troofer or not. Zombie is in a tough spot and I'm sure he/she wishes he/she didn't click the 'post this comment' icon so quickly. From what I know of Zombie, I'm 100% willing to believe he/she has a story to tell.
Blow your cover or remain covert ?

Wankage. If you were reading similar claims to seekrit knowledge and "i've seen it but I can't prove it" about an allegation about a Bush official by Kos, you would kill yourself with derisive laughter at anyone talking it seriously. And rightly so.

MSM and every wingnut in the country is all over this. If Jones had actually been at some truther meetings or whatever, don't you think we'd have some photos or video now?

For that matter, what on earth would stop zombie from leaking such photos or videos or proof to some news organisation anonymously?

Sorry, I'm not falling for the "I have here in my hand a list of 205 Commies..." bullshit.

1438 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:39:58pm

re: #1436 leftover54

Have you ever watched one of Tavis's State of the Black Something or Another. It is like the Jones videos I just watched.

1439 leftover54  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:40:53pm

re: #1431 The Political Class

"Sources say..."

That and a quarter will get ya on the subway.

/been along time since I last rode the subway...

1440 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:41:07pm

re: #1431 The Political Class

I think one unnamed source might not be enough. Besides- other documents have been found that show Jones believed 9/11 was a terrorist act.

1441 leftover54  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:42:05pm

re: #1438 Chekote

Nope.Only watched his show once.

1442 ckb  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:43:36pm

re: #1430 Sharmuta

Except he's made numerous statements he thinks 9/11 was a terrorist attack!

The American Government is the terrorist to the truther, no? Maybe he is a reformed truther?

Krauthammer seems convinced he signed it. Between the Hammer and Zombie I am not liking Jones' denial. Jake Tapper is now saying he will cop to signing the thing tomorrow but say he wasn't clear what it was going to be worded like. What will he say he thought it was going to say?

1443 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:44:57pm
1444 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:45:17pm

re: #1441 leftover54

re: #1438 Chekote

Nope.Only watched his show once.

It is not his show. Around February he organizes a program with several panels of AA leaders to discuss the state of the black family, church or whatever. You get one speech after another a la Jones.

1445 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:48:37pm

re: #1421 Chekote

Sorry. Link didn't work. Again, another "scary" video from Van Jones:

[Link: www.breitbart.tv...]

I detect an element of racism in that video. For one, we are already prompted to be fearful of Jones' words. Then the way they manipulate the text in the transition from Rosa Parks to the "revolution" of the Civil Rights Act -- which he promotes as a minimal transition. The effect is that they are trying to make people fear a transition to what he calls eco-capitalism by comparing it to a fear of "how those black got their civil rights." Believe it or not there are many people that still oppose the Civil Rights Act.

1446 The Left  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:49:40pm

re: #1405 ckb

I'm pretty stunned you do not trust Zombie's word that he has seen Jones at Truther events. The above is pretty much calling him a straight out liar.

Good luck with that.

Or it could be distrusting Zombie's characterisation of those events as "truther events". Especially given zombie's recent predilection to view events and present events through a lens clearly distorted with an agenda. (Obama threats v Bush threats; the complete debacle of the Holdren report, etc.)

Or you're calling our host intellectually dishonest, or shoddy in his reasoning, or accusing him of having some kind of agenda.

Good luck with that.

1447 leftover54  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:49:46pm

I have this image of Zombie pouring over thousands of photos right now hoping to find one with a 'Troofers Convention" poster on the wall and Jones chatting away with another troofer just below it ! I know if I was him/her this is exactly what I'd be doin' about now - thats me.
Finding one, posting it and hearing: "How do you know the poster hadn't been hanging there for weeks prior ? That room is also used for 'Weight Watchers' meetings !! "


/Just tryin' to have a little fun...

1448 Sharmuta  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:53:09pm

re: #1442 ckb

So you're going to believe what you want and facts be damned. Lovely.

There is no evidence besides this one petition to support the claim he's a troofer. None. Charles looked, and I believe him.

1449 leftover54  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:54:47pm

re: #1444 Chekote

Sounds like some good February cabin fever viewing.
I'll have to make a note of it. No, I'll have to carve into my forehead. February...might as well be 2042 to this brain.

/Can't get Brad Pitt outta my head.

1450 Gus  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:58:24pm

Sec. 204 [42 USC § 4344]. It shall be the duty and function of the Council

In verb form:

1. To assist and advise.
2. To gather timely and authoritative information.
3. To review and appraise.
4. To develop and recommend.
5. To conduct investigations, studies, surveys, research, and analyses.
6. To document and define changes natural environment.
7. Too report at least once each year.
8. To to make and furnish studies and reports.

This applies to the members of the CEQ (which I assume everyone is familiar with the acronym) and their reports to the president. No where is there any authority to create policy.

1451 Chekote  Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:58:48pm

re: #1449 leftover54

re: #1444 Chekote

Sounds like some good February cabin fever viewing.
I'll have to make a note of it. No, I'll have to carve into my forehead. February...might as well be 2042 to this brain.

/Can't get Brad Pitt outta my head.

C-Span carries it.

Good nite everyone. Enjoyed talking to you all.

1452 The Left  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:00:37am

re: #1376 JacksonTn


But ... I promise you ... will wait you out ... we are strong and there are more of us than you might think ... we do not depend on television people to tell us which way the winds blow ...

Another Glnn Bck audition tape, I see. Or maybe radio now? G Gordon Liddy? Hal Turner? The dire and vague rhetoric is always the same, only the names change. I can't tell it apart.

The tomato plant of liberty must, from time to time, be watered with the tears of wingnuts and the butthurt!

1453 JacksonTn  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:03:13am

re: #1452 iceweasel

Another Glnn Bck audition tape, I see. Or maybe radio now? G Gordon Liddy? Hal Turner? The dire and vague rhetoric is always the same, only the names change. I can't tell it apart.

The tomato plant of liberty must, from time to time, be watered with the tears of wingnuts and the butthurt!

IW ... you are crazy ... you make me laugh actually ... you do not get a rise out of me ... so you just ... like I said ... keep marching on ...

1454 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:04:41am
1455 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:06:27am

re: #1452 iceweasel


The tomato plant of liberty must, from time to time, be watered with the tears of wingnuts and the butthurt!

You get an upding just for that. Ha!

1456 leftover54  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:07:31am

re: #1437 iceweasel

No, I'm just saying I'm not willing to believe Zombie is an out right liar either. I'm really not concerned about this story at all except for mild curiosity. What I said about Jones' 'Katrina/Bush' BS I am serious about - THAT pissed me off. Also, I'm not "up to speed' with recent Zombie issues and was quite surprised to read some of the posts here tonight.
One says this, the other says that...if theres any weight to this story it's going to take on a life of it's own no matter what the hell I think. I'll be interested to see where it all
goes.

1457 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:08:40am

re: #1454 The Political Class

Right, and earlier today everyone here was certain that was bogus, too. Now apparently you are certain it is not bogus. I can't wait to see what you will be certain of tomorrow...

You have comprehension issues or something? I said:

There is no evidence besides this one petition to support the claim he's a troofer.

I didn't state if the evidence was bogus or not. There are multiple documents that show Van Jones believed 9/11 was a terrorist attack.

1458 leftover54  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:10:00am

re: #1451 Chekote

Have a good night too Chekote ! Sorry I wasn't more chatty, second night up after 3am and it's kickin' my ass. especially 'cause I don't know why I'm still awake (again). Thank goodness for these all night diners.

1459 Aye Pod  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:11:49am

re: #1452 iceweasel

Another Glnn Bck audition tape, I see. Or maybe radio now? G Gordon Liddy? Hal Turner? The dire and vague rhetoric is always the same, only the names change. I can't tell it apart.

The tomato plant of liberty must, from time to time, be watered with the tears of wingnuts and the butthurt!

In stitches here! Updinged and favourited :)

1460 leftover54  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:19:15am

re: #1437 iceweasel

Also, I only get to read 1 out of 30 or more posts. I have severe arthritis, only one finger to type with so by the time I've typed one stupid little comment a whole sh*t load more have been posted by others - so I'm all over the place playin' ketchup.The other thing is whatever words/sentance I've completed (typed) is for a thought I had 10 minutes ago ! Try puttin' one together like this - spell check usually doesn't have a clue as to what word I
just mangled and I'm typing it over (wrong) 2 or 3 times just to get in the ball park !! Just another hobby of mine - it passes the time...

1461 leftover54  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:23:04am

re: #1420 ArchangelMichael

"She turned me into a newt !!"

1462 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:27:14am
1463 Aye Pod  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:29:55am

re: #1453 JacksonTn

IW ... you are crazy ... you make me laugh actually ... you do not get a rise out of me ... so you just ... like I said ... keep marching on ...

JacksonTn, If all you can do is make vague (and incorrect!) insinuations and call names, I think it would be better if you didn't address iceweasel in future at all.

1464 leftover54  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:32:58am

re: #1462 The Political Class

Point me to the 'he admitted signing it' if you wouldn't
mind ? I missed it somehow, have been up and down the thread to no avail and I'm gettin too tired to look anymore :-)
Over 1420 posts already !

1465 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:33:33am

re: #1462 The Political Class

What I comprehend is that a number of people here have suggested that it is not a stretch to think that Jones would sign/believe such a thing. Perhaps some of them are crazed truthers, but most of them are clearly not truthers and are making a point in good faith, and respectfully.

Instead of getting replies in kind, they are insulted, accused of having comprehension problems, and tarred with taking the word of birthers.

Many proclaimed his signature on this position as bogus. Now that he has admitted to signing it the argument is already shifting. he was tricked. He didn't understand. He didn't mean it.

Yes, truthers lie. So do commies and radicals. It's in their rule book.

Yeah, I think my comprehension is just fine...I see what is going on here pretty clearly.

He hasn't admitted to signing it. An unnamed source is saying that. I'll wait for him to clarify himself.

1466 leftover54  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:35:25am

re: #1465 Sharmuta

O Tay ! Thanks for that - was going cross eyed lookin' for it !

1467 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:42:10am
1468 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:42:44am

re: #1466 leftover54

Tapper's source might be right, but in the past "unnamed sources" didn't carry much weight at this blog. It's carrying weight now because people want to call this guy a troofer. Even if he did sign it mistakenly, he has multiple other public statements saying 9/11 was a terrorist attack. If not for those statements, we could have a situation where he was lying to cover his ass, but we do have these docs- they corroborate what he said:

“the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever.”

I think it's important to keep in mind the majority of Americans accept 9/11 was an attack and not an inside job.

1469 The Left  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:44:18am

re: #1455 Slumbering Behemoth

You get an upding just for that. Ha!

Heh. Cheers, Sleepy B. Rather proud of that one myself. ;)

1470 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:44:49am

re: #1095 Wendya

Hypothetical situations or potential responses to future situations?

If A happens, we can do B and C. We believe it would be legal and allowable under the constitution.

Sounds like they put a lot of research into their "hypotheticals".

That's how research works. Are insurance actuaries plotting mass murder or wishfully hoping for a catastrophe when they develop payment schedules and projections and statistical summaries of hypothetical disasters?

What about the people at the CDC who imagine the damage caused by a hypothetical patient zero getting on a plane in New York with a contagious deadly disease?

Or all the IT professionals who spend a lot of time worried about fires, floods and terrorist attacks (among other things) that can impact business and come up with situations. For example, I'm working on or DR plan, and my worst-case scenario is 50% of senior staff is dead or incapacitated (one of those situations includes killing myself off... it was creepy to think about).

that's how academia works. that's how a lot of fields work. What could happen and what could we do?

1471 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:45:16am

re: #1467 The Political Class

And I'm not trying to knock tapper, but if we had "unnamed sources" saying things about a republican- we'd all be hesitant to accept that. Maybe the source is correct- I will wait for further clarification from Jones.

This still doesn't negate the other documents showing Jones as down with 9/11 being a terrorist attack.

1472 The Left  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:45:46am

re: #1468 Sharmuta

Tapper's source might be right, but in the past "unnamed sources" didn't carry much weight at this blog.

Tapper has failed in the past to find his own ass with both hands and a flashlight. Seriously, he has fucked up a few times.
And unnamed sources are always suspect, IMO.

1473 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:50:02am

re: #1472 iceweasel

Unnamed sources have, in the past at LGF, been ridiculed. There is no reason to find this one any more credible than ones used against Bush or any other republican. Again- I think this time the difference is the desire to believe it.

1474 The Left  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:52:05am

re: #1453 JacksonTn

IW ... you are crazy ... you make me laugh actually ... you do not get a rise out of me ... so you just ... like I said ... keep marching on ...

Thanks, i don't need your permission for it.

But feel free to try to kick the football, get it yanked away every time, and then claim that the game you're playing is "Missing the football". You can declare victory that way.

Just like Glnn Bk defenders claimed he left out the 'c' in oligarchy on purpose. You know, because it's such a major victory to have people laughing their asses off at him for 24 hours. WIN!

Good luck with your tomato plant.

1475 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:52:10am
1476 Bagua  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:53:17am

re: #1470 ~Fianna

For example, I'm working on or DR plan, and my worst-case scenario is 50% of senior staff is dead or incapacitated (one of those situations includes killing myself off... it was creepy to think about).

An optimist I see, my DR plan has a worst case where there is no surviving staff, the protocols are for the executors.

1477 The Left  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:53:43am

re: #1473 Sharmuta

Unnamed sources have, in the past at LGF, been ridiculed. There is no reason to find this one any more credible than ones used against Bush or any other republican. Again- I think this time the difference is the desire to believe it.

Absolutely. Unnamed sources should always be mocked, ferociously. What we're seeing here is the kind of reasoning that puts the D in derangement, as I said at 550 or whatever.

1478 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:54:26am
1479 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:55:42am

re: #1476 Bagua

An optimist I see, my DR plan has a worst case where there is no surviving staff, the protocols are for the executors.

We're distributed. If 50% don't survive, assume we've lost the West Coast and Texas. At that point, what happens to our email server is probably not germane. I doubt anyone worries about email in Mad Max.

1480 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:56:09am

re: #1478 The Political Class

And yes, be sure to attack the motives of those you disagree with multiple times in this comment thread, instead of just respectfully disagreeing and stating why you take the positions you take (as I have tried to do) - stay classy!

You basically showed I was correct with your #1475, so why are you offended.

1481 Bagua  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:56:12am

re: #1477 iceweasel

Absolutely. Unnamed sources should always be mocked, ferociously. What we're seeing here is the kind of reasoning that puts the D in derangement, as I said at 550 or whatever.

One may say "obsessive derangement" at this point.

1482 The Left  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:58:04am

re: #1478 The Political Class

And yes, be sure to attack the motives of those you disagree with multiple times in this comment thread, instead of just respectfully disagreeing and stating why you take the positions you take (as I have tried to do) - stay classy!

How's this for classy? Bugger off.

But first read the posts already made in this thread. I suggest you give special attention to the ones by Charles, stating over, and over, and over, that there is no evidence that Jones was a truther and EVERY reason to suspect that the truthers would LIE or misrepresent a petition in order to collect signatures.

If either Sharm, or I, or anyone seems a wee bit cranky at this point, it's because we're knackered having to say the same things over and over.

1483 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:59:57am

Van Jones a signatory on a press release calling 9/11 a "terrorist attack":

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

1484 ~Fianna  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:00:41am

re: #1478 The Political Class

And yes, be sure to attack the motives of those you disagree with multiple times in this comment thread, instead of just respectfully disagreeing and stating why you take the positions you take (as I have tried to do) - stay classy!

Why is it distinctly unsurprising that an asshole only has 12 comments?

If you want to make 20, you should probably post another 8 sometime between now and when Stinky shows up for work in the morning.

1485 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:01:06am

re: #1478 The Political Class

And yes- I will attack the motives, as the motives of others are under attack too. You can't have it both ways.

1486 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:02:56am
1487 The Left  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:07:35am

re: #1483 Sharmuta

Van Jones a signatory on a press release calling 9/11 a "terrorist attack":

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Well, this just proves that Jones is more wily than we thought, and when he signed it he was calling Bush a terrorist, and did he ever actually say "i don't think Bush blew up the WTC" ?

In the absence of proof, I think the only possible response is hysterical derangement and the conclusion that Jones is, in fact, a commie Al Quaeda sympathiser and a troofer who hates whitey.

Larry Johnson says he has the tapes and Zombie says he has the photos. Neither can release the proof because they are in fear for their lives.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It would be irresponsible not to!*

*Peggy Noonan pushing conspiracy theories in the WSJ in May 2001: "
"Why did he do this thing?... Was it fear of Fidel Castro?... Was it another threat from Havana?... Was Mr. Clinton being blackmailed?... Is it irresponsible to speculate? It would be irresponsible not to.""

1488 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:08:55am
1489 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:13:24am
1490 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:14:31am
1491 The Left  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:14:45am

re: #1488 The Political Class

Yes, I understand all that, I just happen to have a contrary opinion as far as allowing the possibility that he signed it/has truther inclinations. Is that not allowed?

Contrary opinions are fine and dandy. Big fan of them myself or I sure as hell wouldn't be posting here.

A reasonable explanation has already been proposed as to why he might have signed it, if indeed he did: Because the truthers, like the creationists, have a long and documented history of either signing people's names to things for them, or lying and misrepresenting their petition/documentary, etc to get interviews/statements/endorsements from others.

You have failed to give any concrete reason for why you believe jones might be a truther.

1492 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:16:54am

re: #1488 The Political Class

Yes, I understand all that, I just happen to have a contrary opinion as far as allowing the possibility that he signed it/has truther inclinations. Is that not allowed?

Of course you're allowed, just don't expect to skate. You're going to get called on it.

You are not basing this opinion on any evidence. That's what we do here- we look at evidence. You are using prejudice on which to base your position. You can do that, and we can call you on it.

1493 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:17:58am
1494 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:18:41am

re: #1489 JacksonTn

You say she doesn't get to you and you don't care what she thinks and yet you write tirades.

Please prove it by stopping posting comments to her. Scroll, gaze, whatever.

1495 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:21:16am
1496 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:23:16am

re: #1489 JacksonTn

You are past loaded, and well into completely fuckered up. I suggest you put down the dope for the night, and get some rest. Besides, you'll save money by not smoking that shit when you're already high as a kite.

1497 Aye Pod  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:25:21am

re: #1489 JacksonTn

IW ... you really are a nasty bitch ... and if you cannot take a little "down home" right in your face for what you really are ... then I guess you are not the real hard ass person you try to act like you are on this blog ... and at the risk of getting banned ... if you were right here in front of this "redneck bitter clinger" you would probably not say the things you do ... because sister I promise you that I would let you know that whether or not you are a "real" American or just someone over on the other side of the pond ... we "down home" people can spot bullshit a mile off ... and you a full of it and spout the crap I have seen all my life from the far left of my ex party ... so ... yeah ... you fucking march on ... and from a distance try to steer the politics over here ...

Who really care the fuck what you think ... because I assure you I don't ... we will get by just fine without you over here ...

Courtesy of the Red White and Blue ...


Every time you post you just demonstrate how obsessive, petty and hateful you are towards iceweasel, and how lacking you are in any real arguments against what she has said. It's actually self abuse on your part for you to continue. Pathetic.

1498 The Left  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:26:46am

re: #1489 JacksonTn

Who the hell do you think you are, to impugn my citizenship, my patriotism, my intellectual honesty, and call ME names like 'nasty bitch'? And then inform me that LGF (or America, it's really unclear from your incoherent screed who the referent of 'we' is) "will get by just fine without you over here"?

Courtesy of the 'red white and blue'?

More like courtesy of the black and blue, because you're talking out of your ass again and it's hurting so bad from the massive kicking I've given it.

Go read the first amendment. Go read the comment policy for this blog. Go read every comment I've ever made here and try to find ONE that calls you, or anyone, a 'redneck', or 'bitter and clingy'.

Then post to me again about how my opinion really doesn't matter to you or anyone, but you're so damn threatened by it that you can't help responding, incoherently, with vague and not so vague threats, and with abuse.

Fail, Jackson. Fail.

1499 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:31:17am

re: #1495 The Political Class

I am simply saying that I think that a reasonable person could in good faith think that Van Jones is capable of it.

This is a very weak argument. A reasonable person could think people are capable of anything. But in order to determine specifics, we need evidence. We have multiple statements from him he doesn't believe 9/11 was a conspiracy. What more do you need?

1500 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:40:13am
1501 The Left  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:40:27am

re: #1489 JacksonTn

IW ... you really are a nasty bitch ... and if you cannot take a little "down home" right in your face for what you really are

Let's see how you take your own medicine, shall we? A little down home in your face for what you really are?

I'm sick of the disgusting wingnuts like you who told me and everyone like me that we were traitors, unamerican, treasonous, because we didn't like your shitty war and we had questions about it. I'm sick of the revolting wingnuts like you who have ruined the GOP. I'm sick of the freaks in the GOP who have no platform, no ideas, no philosophy except "we hate the Democrats and we'll do whatever we can to fuck with them. And we don't care if it fucks the country over, and we don;'t care about having ideas"

I'm sick of every fucking wingnut who thinks it's a 'victory' just because they can manufacture outrage and hysteria out of nothing, or out of lies.

And I'm sick of every wanker on this blog who wants to keep it a little clubhouse for them and their pals, and whines like a whipped dog everytime they're forced to deal with an opinion they don't like, and runs over to the stalker blog to cry wingnut tears when they get their ass banned for being a dick.

And I'm sick of so-called 'women' like you who think it's acceptable to call another woman a 'nasty bitch' just because she's smarter than you are.

Deal. Your country has changed, honey, and the wingnuts are acting like an angry divorced guy whose wife has left him. Bill Maher is an ass, but he got this right for sure:


Look, I get it, "real America." After an eight-year run of controlling the White House, Congress and the Supreme Court, this latest election has you feeling like a rejected husband. You've come home to find your things out on the front lawn -- or at least more things than you usually keep out on the front lawn. You're not ready to let go, but the country you love is moving on. And now you want to call it a whore and key its car.

That's what you are, the bitter divorced guy whose country has left him -- obsessing over it, haranguing it, blubbering one minute about how much you love it and vowing the next that if you cannot have it, nobody will.

But it's been almost 100 days, and your country is not coming back to you. She's found somebody new. And it's a black guy.

read it and weep.

1502 ali mentary  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:44:07am

re: #1499 Sharmuta

This is a very weak argument. A reasonable person could think people are capable of anything. But in order to determine specifics, we need evidence. We have multiple statements from him he doesn't believe 9/11 was a conspiracy. What more do you need?

What about:

"we all need that the people the goverment puts in charge of various gazillions use to read the stuff they sign."

just kidding, of course, don't take me seriuosly :D

1503 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:44:15am

re: #1500 JacksonTn

You are in serious denial if you think iDub doesn't get to you.

Really- just stop. Walk the walk.

1504 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:44:19am
1505 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:44:40am

re: #1504 The Political Class

GFY.

1506 Aye Pod  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:44:48am

re: #1500 JacksonTn

IW ...my opinions of you and your beliefs have never been directed towards LGF ... I am directing everything I have ever said to you ... to you ... and I do not speak for anyone other than myself ... and I stand by everything I have ever said ... to you ... and if people here want to say I am loaded or whatever they want to say ... I do not care ... not for a single minute ... I speak for myself ... always ... I will say again ... I recognize you and what you are doing ...

I am pretty sure that if you or anyone else went into the archives of this blog they would see that I have not changed my beliefs ... they have been the same for as long as I have been here ... I don't change sides of the street just because my friends do ... so ... you just go ahead and say whatever you want about me ... I stand by my posts and my beliefs ...

And this is my favorite song ...

Stevie ... Traffic ...


[Video]

What utter mindless drivel. Go away!

1507 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:45:09am

re: #1506 Jimmah

Please quit quoting it.

1508 JacksonTn  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:46:56am

re: #1503 Sharmuta

You are in serious denial if you think iDub doesn't get to you.

Really- just stop. Walk the walk.

Sharmuta ... really ... you can say that ... you need to go back and read some of your own posts ... just a recently as the primaries and general election ... because I am not sure why you have changed but ... I am pretty sure it not just because of Beck ... and the idiots on television ... so don't go fucking throwing stones my way ...

1509 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:51:02am

re: #1500 JacksonTn

The "archives" of your comments only go as deep as one year and twenty-five days.

You should take a break for the evening, and cool it with your nasty bitch stuff.

1510 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:51:12am

re: #1508 JacksonTn

I've "changed" because everyone else is going insane.

And I'm not casting stones. I'm pointing out you said iceweasel doesn't get to you, you don't care what she thinks, and yet here you are writing tirades. This ain't about me- this is about you and you abusing LGF and a registered member when Charles is away. Shame on you.

1511 The Left  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:51:38am

re: #1504 The Political Class


Signed - the asshole with just under 20 comments who just banned himself.

Your brilliance and insight will really be missed. I think you'd fit right in at the shithole sites you mention.

1512 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:54:28am

re: #1504 The Political Class


BTW - this just in - Ted Kennedy didn't know what he was doing on that fateful night at Chappaquiddick - guess he's off the hook then, right?

Yer a fuckin' idiot.

1513 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:54:59am
1514 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:55:50am

re: #1511 iceweasel

This isn't the thread you were looking for.
You want to go about your business upstairs with us...
Move along... move along...

/jedimindtrick

1515 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:57:05am

re: #1513 JacksonTn

You are full of shit to say she doesn't get to you. No one here believes you.

1516 The Left  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:57:07am

re: #1508 JacksonTn

... so don't go fucking throwing stones my way ...

Hey, according to you, I think you cling to your Bible and your gun, right?

We've established you don't cling to your Bible, Jackson.

John 8:7 much?

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

[Link: bible.cc...]

I know you like music. Maybe you weren't casting stones, just building another brick in your wall. ;)

1517 Aye Pod  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:57:20am

re: #1504 The Political Class

LGF just lost another idiot. Yaay!

1518 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 1:57:59am

re: #1513 JacksonTn

You seem to be looking for a "suicide by cop" kind of flounce. I will leave you to it, then, and suggest that others do the same.

1519 The Left  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 2:02:27am

re: #1513 JacksonTn

but I will not keep from saying what I feel I need to say to a person just cuz I think they are in some sort of protected status ...

Yeah right. I'm in the protected status of having several deviations to spot you on the IQ scale and still beat your ass black and blue in an argument, and I won't have to call you names to do it.

Keyboard cat, let's play JacksonTN off!

1520 Aye Pod  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 2:09:35am

re: #1513 JacksonTn

And you need to keep saying to them that you can 'see what they really are' and 'know their evil intentions' etc despite being unable to back anything up? That's just harrassment of a particularly mindless variety.

You need to seek medical attention. You have suffered critical butthurt.

1521 dalejrfanfreak  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 2:12:04am

Van Jones also called Republicans assholes and is a self admitted communist. I think the guy probably signed the petition because his peers seem to be that kind of people. As for Beck and Fox News, at least they attempt to tell us more about Obama's czars. In regular news land we are still blaming Bush for everything wrong in the world.

1522 The Left  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 2:16:11am

re: #1520 Jimmah


You need to seek medical attention. You have suffered critical butthurt.

Obama's socialist health reform is going to deny care for butthurt, but only on the basis of voter registration. Republicans won't be covered. :(

I know it's true because Michael Steele and Glnn Bk said so.

1523 Aye Pod  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 2:19:08am

re: #1522 iceweasel

Obama's socialist health reform is going to deny care for butthurt, but only on the basis of voter registration. Republicans won't be covered. :(

That's just sick - denying help to those who need it most!

1524 Gus  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 2:19:16am

re: #1521 dalejrfanfreak

Van Jones also called Republicans assholes and is a self admitted communist. I think the guy probably signed the petition because his peers seem to be that kind of people. As for Beck and Fox News, at least they attempt to tell us more about Obama's czars. In regular news land we are still blaming Bush for everything wrong in the world.

Actually, he's not a czar. He's a deputy adviser for the Coucil of Environmental Quality which is part of Title II of the National Environmental Policy Act of 1969 which was signed into law by Richard Nixon. Ironically, Van Jones has a Republican to thank for his position.

1525 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 2:19:52am

If you acknowledge it, it will continue to bitch.

Deny it the water that helps bear it's fruit.

1526 wahabicorridor  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 2:39:04am

Yuck. It's way too early. And I can't believe I updinged Sharmuta, but she's right.

Troofers lie like rugs. But whether Jones signed the petition or not is WAY beside the point. It's a distraction. The guy is a serious radical and focusing on something that can't be proven is taking away from any effort to focus on what CAN be proved. We get to the point of "Well there was this lie told about him, so everything said about him is a lie".

This is really pissing into the wind. Focus on what is provable. That's bad enough.

1527 spiderx  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 3:06:26am
So he's not a truther, he's just a former Communist who's recently converted to "Green-Capitalism".

I feel much better about him now.

it's a pretty common occurrence to find former radicals realizing that the market and capitalism can be the force for the structural changes they want to see in society .

Green radicalism essentially says that capitalism is not environmentally sustainable . Green capitalists are former green radicals that believe that capitalism can be environmentally sustainable.

Van Jones would probably admit he was once in the green radical camp. It's pretty obvious that Jones is now a green capitalist considering he just wrote a book about the subject.

It was like living in another reality watching fox news today. They really do just make stuff up.

1528 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 3:38:37am
1529 freetoken  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 3:53:10am

re: #1528 Drider

Just a casual observation here, there seem to be more and more people here who have no doubt made their pledge to be a "servant of Obama"...

Oh? Who exactly would that be?

1530 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 3:56:16am

re: #1415 Sharmuta

Verdict first, trial second.

...with the burden of proving innocence placed squarely on the defendant's shoulders.

The Red Chinese would be so proud to see how far we've come...

1531 iceman1960  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 4:51:36am

Why would anyone think that Obama would surround himself by crazies, radicals & commies.
I mean it's not like he hung around with domestic terrorists...er, I mean it's not like he spent 20 years in a church listening to hate speech...uh, er, I mean... it's not like he's buddying up to tyrants and dictators...uh, er, doh... oh nevermind.

1532 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 4:58:52am

re: #1528 Drider

You are a Drider. A twisted abomination, forever damned by your inadequacy and failure in the eyes of your Dark and Malevolent Goddess Lolth.

The bitterness of your failure runs through your veins as burning venom, and your shame is evidenced by your unholy, tortured form.

Warped in ways that Dali could never imagine, you burden the under-earth with your ponderous bulk.

Neither man nor arachnid, yet a hideous fusion of both, you exist as an example of what happens to those who displease the Dark Things they worship.

You are a servant of That Which Lurks in The Unseen Web, and a rejected one at that. Yet your twisted form, the abomination that is a Drider, is pressed towards the service of this Venomous Goddess.

And yet you come here, speaking casually of Free Lizards whom you presume to call servants.

Foul beast! Seek quickly the shadows you came from!

1533 Pingemi  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 5:23:27am

I had never heard of Rense.com until Charles asked for it not to be linked to.

After a quick glance of the google search concerning it I can see why.

I wish my ignorance of its existence had been extended indefinitely.

1534 CJDate  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 5:39:29am

Boy, this thread certainly has devolved into a pissing contest...

I agree with Zombie... Jones is a certifiable nut, and a signature, or lack thereof, on the petition doesn't change that.

Is/was he a troofer? Who knows? The only thing I know is that he was a keynote speaker at the "Progressive Festival" in Petaluma, CA on September 14, 2003, and the major controversy there was between the LIHOPs and the MIHOPs. (Did Bush "let it happen on purpose," or "make it happen on purpose"?)

I guess you might say that Jones "pals around with" troofers.

1535 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 6:00:46am
1536 Bloodnok  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 6:01:20am

re: #1489 JacksonTn

we will get by just fine without you over here ...

Just who in the hell do you think you are saying this? About ANYBODY. You don't speak for "we".

All of these posts about how you just "speak yer mind" and how there are no flies on you belie the fact that you do this regularly, you are obsessed and that your agenda is clear to see.

Enough. Just. stop. caring. These threads will be much more pleasant and readable for it.

1537 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 6:11:06am
1538 SGTTED  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 6:12:19am

Kooks on the left and the right form the Truther movement. I don't see it as farfetched that Van Jones signed the petition back when it was fashionable in leftwing circles to hold that view.

1539 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 6:25:30am
1540 The Left  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 6:30:12am

re: #1535 Misfit138

Hey - Sorry I haven't been here for a while. I've been hanging out at Ace's and just waiting for the right time to issue one last comment over here and get banned.

i think you'll probably get your wish soon, and then you can spend all your time hanging over at Ace's He-Man Wimmin Haterz Club. idiot.

1541 CJDate  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 6:30:14am

Van Jones was on the editorial board of War Times, which actively peddled the "Bush let it happen" line.
War Times

1542 The Left  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 6:35:03am

re: #1538 SGTTED

Kooks on the left and the right form the Truther movement. I don't see it as farfetched that Van Jones signed the petition back when it was fashionable in leftwing circles to hold that view.

It was never fashionable or hip on the left to be a TRUTHER.

1543 CJDate  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 6:51:31am

re: #1542 iceweasel

It was never fashionable or hip on the left to be a TRUTHER.

You must not have hung around Democratic Underground very much:
MIHOP/LIHOP Poll is one example of dozens.

Browse to your heart's content here.

Now I feel like I need to bathe after trudging through all that.

1544 Kenneth  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 7:01:27am

re: #309 zombie

I didn't come up with that - -it was posted by Kenneth on an earlier thread. I was just reposting it to remind people.

So far, I have made zero effort to look for verifiable evidence of Jones's Truther-intersected past. And I will not do so, because, a. I don't care; b. It's a mountain out of a molehill; and c. If I prove it, I will potentially expose myself.

A clarrification:

The quote I posted was from a press release from the group STORM. This was a leftist black racialist group Jones helped form in 1995. The rally was not Troofer in nature, as the whole Troofer thing had not yet started. The point of the rally was to profess solidarity with minorities (Arabs and other Muslims) who it was feared would be blamed & targeted for revenge.

1545 realwest  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 7:11:26am

Test.

1546 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 7:12:42am
1547 Samurai  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 7:46:09am

re: #1542 iceweasel

Here in California it was... most definitely. I was living in the SF bay area on 9/11, and it seemed like the majority of people there either blamed it on Bush or "the Jews". (My boss at work was a strong supporter of the latter conspiracy).

1548 elclynn  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 7:49:55am

Charles;
Sometimes things are just what they are and they just can't be made to go away. Mr. Jones has a "blame the white folks" meme going. His views haven't changed, not one bit. I believe he stated he didn't realize what he was signing and didn't read the petition as he should have. Kind of like the rest of the progressives who never read bills before they sign them.

1549 lorien1973  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 7:53:07am

Now, as early as 2002, he's linked to truthers at Rense.

Either he signs anything that put in front of him or he's a truther. Which comforts you more?

Come on people. Just accept that he's a truther. I ask again - why is it hard to believe?

To believe that both 911truth and Rense both (in 2002 and 2004) put this guy's name on a petition in hopes that he goes to the WH in 2009 to embarrass him is silly. He's admitted to signing it (he just didn't read it well enough! - twice now!). Occam's Razor.

Someone's earlier comment said that he's made statements that 9/11 was done by terrorists. Think back to 2004. This does not preclude the LIHOP movement of trutherism - let it happen on purpose. Remember? That's how it started.

Quit apologizing for this idiot. He's a truther. He's said he's a communist. He should be gone.

1550 Salamantis  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 8:07:51am

re: #1549 lorien1973

Now, as early as 2002, he's linked to truthers at Rense.

Either he signs anything that put in front of him or he's a truther. Which comforts you more?

Come on people. Just accept that he's a truther. I ask again - why is it hard to believe?

To believe that both 911truth and Rense both (in 2002 and 2004) put this guy's name on a petition in hopes that he goes to the WH in 2009 to embarrass him is silly. He's admitted to signing it (he just didn't read it well enough! - twice now!). Occam's Razor.

Someone's earlier comment said that he's made statements that 9/11 was done by terrorists. Think back to 2004. This does not preclude the LIHOP movement of trutherism - let it happen on purpose. Remember? That's how it started.

Quit apologizing for this idiot. He's a truther. He's said he's a communist. He should be gone.

It WOULD be kinda like believing that dark forces faked Obama's birth certificate and placed announcements of his birth in Hawaiian newspapers because they knew in advance that he would run for President, wouldn't it?

I don’t necessarily think he ever really BELIEVED that 9-11 was ‘an inside job’; I just think that at the time and in the leftist circles he ran in, signing such a petition and being a member of such a committee was the kewl, anti-Bush thing to do. And the LAST thing he would wanna do would be to appear unkewl to his political droogiez.

Kinda like some wingnuts embracing Nirtherism these days.

1551 scrubjay  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 8:12:02am

Hi Charles,
I am having trouble understanding what the petition actually is. Is it an email petition or an actual physical petition with hand-written signatures? If it is hand-written has the signature been verified as his?

1552 grahamski  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 8:13:01am

It doesn't matter if he is a truther or not, he is an admitted communist, and a black nationalist who wants to transform the USA into his sick twisted vision...that is enough, he has to go along with the 0.

1553 Ringo the Gringo  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 8:13:17am

From my experience, during the Bush years nearly everyone one on the far-Left, in one way or another, entertained some form of trutherism. It was usually in the form of "asking questions" or saying things like, "well, with Bush and Cheney in office anything is possible". I know many otherwise sane people who, because they hated Bush so much, would ask, "why are they afraid of re-opening the investigation?" or " what have they got to hide". If you asked them directly, they would most likely deny that they believed that Bush was involved in 9/11, but then they would continue by talking about "unanswered questions" and would bring up truther arguments under the guise of "just asking questions...why are you so afraid of questions?".

This was very common behavior among people suffering from Bush Derangement for many years. I suspect that Van Jones falls into this category.

1554 lorien1973  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 8:17:52am
It WOULD be kinda like believing that dark forces faked Obama's birth certificate and placed announcements of his birth in Hawaiian newspapers because they knew in advance that he would run for President, wouldn't it?


Exactly.

And the LAST thing he would wanna do would be to appear unkewl to his political droogiez.


This is a possibility too. Who knows. Either has bad judgement (like this) or he's a truther. Either way. He certainly doesn't need to be in any sort of position of power.

1555 SFGoth  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 8:21:41am

re: #10 unrealizedviewpoint

I still want to hear him say: "I did not sign that petition."


Do you want him to wag his finger too?

1556 rumcrook  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 8:23:13am

yes I believe him. becuase communists dont have a long 90 year history of lying through thier teeth. ln scope and scale that would embarrass the devil. and make troofers look like newly minted pikers on the world stage.///

1557 lorien1973  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 8:23:51am

I remember a few years ago this site would wonder about peoples' 9/11 comments and opine about "soft trutherism" and go off on these people. Now, we have a guy in the WH who's signed onto, not one but two, truther petitions. And this site tries to defend him and pretend how they are all lies. Change we can believe in, I suppose.

1558 lorien1973  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 8:25:30am

re: #1555 SFGoth

His aides released a statement saying that he did not read the petition carefully before signing. They -could- have said "No, he never signed such a petition." End of story. They didn't say that or anything close to that.

They know he signed it. Why don't you believe his own people?

1559 auldtrafford  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 8:41:08am

This is kinda like the old brainteaser: A man is either honest in everything he says - or lies about everything he says.

If you ask him: "Are you a compulsive liar?", it is impossible for him to say, "Yes."

Van Jones is either an honorable Obama-class stand-up guy, or he is a "truther". So, how will he answer the question about believing in the "truther" credo?

1560 Drider  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 8:45:48am

re: #1532 Slumbering Behemoth

You are a Drider. A twisted abomination, forever damned by your inadequacy and failure in the eyes of your Dark and Malevolent Goddess Lolth.

The bitterness of your failure runs through your veins as burning venom, and your shame is evidenced by your unholy, tortured form.

Warped in ways that Dali could never imagine, you burden the under-earth with your ponderous bulk.

Neither man nor arachnid, yet a hideous fusion of both, you exist as an example of what happens to those who displease the Dark Things they worship.

You are a servant of That Which Lurks in The Unseen Web, and a rejected one at that. Yet your twisted form, the abomination that is a Drider, is pressed towards the service of this Venomous Goddess.

And yet you come here, speaking casually of Free Lizards whom you presume to call servants.

Foul beast! Seek quickly the shadows you came from!

Kudo's to your excellent description of a Drider, I wasn't sure anyone else than I was lame enough to know what a Drider was.Drider's are also magic resistant (As far as Obama ferry dust goes) and very,very astute to their surroundings, hence my comment.

1561 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 8:51:23am

re: #1526 wahabicorridor

And I can't believe I updinged Sharmuta, but she's right.

Grow up.

1562 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 8:59:40am

re: #1535 Misfit138

but I'm going to be with the grown-ups now

At Ace of Spades?! LMAO!

1563 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:05:17am

re: #1546 vestalmiss

I have noticed less traffic and fewer articles.

I have no idea what it is you're looking at then. The number of articles is about the same, and traffic is up- I know because I look at the statistics every day:

Yesterday
Page Views: 118,398
Visits: 75,126

This is up from the day before, and it's up from last month and last year. You're flat out wrong.

1564 noshariaincanada  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:10:13am

re: #1548 elclynn

Charles;
Sometimes things are just what they are and they just can't be made to go away. Mr. Jones has a "blame the white folks" meme going. His views haven't changed, not one bit. I believe he stated he didn't realize what he was signing and didn't read the petition as he should have. Kind of like the rest of the progressives who never read bills before they sign them.

further to this, it is clear that he carefully parsed his words, saying he did not agree with the petition's statement, while failing to deny signing the petition. So, it is more than probable that he did sign it. Does that make him a troofer? Not necessarily, but given his overall political stance it is likely.

1565 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:11:48am
1566 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:14:58am

re: #1558 lorien1973

His aides released a statement saying that he did not read the petition carefully before signing. They -could- have said "No, he never signed such a petition." End of story. They didn't say that or anything close to that.

They know he signed it. Why don't you believe his own people?

You have a link to that?

1567 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:18:12am

Ben Smith contacted another signer of the petition, Rabbi Michael Lerner:

I was asked to sign a letter which I was told had four demands:

As Americans of conscience, we ask for four things:

1. An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer
2. Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
3. Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
4. The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry.

I did not authorize my name to be used for all the other stuff that I now see was included surrounding the letter, namely the sponsors of that 911truth.org, and would not have had I been aware that all that stuff was presented in ways that suggested that I agreed with it, and though I do recognize a few of the people I'd consider "nut cases" among the list of signatories, my guess is that most of those who signed were, like me, unaware of the context in which our names would appear.

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Gee- the troofers weren't honest? What a surprise.

1568 lorien1973  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:23:35am

re: #1566 Sharmuta

ABC news.

And your link as well.

The White House seems to have decided yesterday that Van Jones could, politically, be saved: His statements on race and politics could be seen as rhetorical excesses; and he said he hadn't reviewed a statement he signed calling for a 9/11 investigation.

Stop apologizing for this tool.

1569 Salamantis  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:23:50am

re: #1565 Samurai

I disagree. The mission of this site, as delineated by Charles, has been to expose idiotarians to the ridicule they most richly deserve, whether they politically hail from the left or from the right (or even from the center).

Political considerations should not enter into it, either to give people unmerited passes, or to give people unmerited grief. And in the overwhelming preponderance of cases here, politics has NOT entered into it.

Idiotarians are ultimately responsible for their own idiocies, and the owner of an anti-idiotarian site should not be unfairly chastised for exposing and ridiculing those idiocies simply because the idiotarians responsible for commiting them in the first place claim to belong to a point on the political spectrum that some members of that site might share.

1570 lorien1973  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:26:23am

9/11/02 - he was part of a rally that included truthers.

1571 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:29:38am

re: #1568 lorien1973

That says "a source". You said it was Jones' staffers.

1) You weren't telling the truth.
2) It's an unnamed source.
3) I don't put much faith in "unnamed sources"- not during the last 8 years, and not now.

1572 lorien1973  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:30:57am

re: #1567 Sharmuta

This is what is commonly known as "soft trutherism" - we are just 'asking questions' . So, really, the link proves the point that has been made the whole time.

A few years ago, CJ - and most commenters here - would have been all over this guy for "soft trutherism" but these days. Nope. Curious.

1573 Drider  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:30:59am

Honestly, this stooge is a self avowed Communist, during the time of these rabid idiots ramping up this truther stuff, and being this stooges name is on the list (not that he was a big wig at the time), how could one not expect this dummy to do what he naturally has done all his life...bring down the government.

It's like saying that Obama and family attended that lunatic church for 20 years and is presto...a centrist.

Come on.

1574 lorien1973  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:32:20am

re: #1571 Sharmuta

You're obtuse, aren't you?

U

PDATE: A White House official, seeking to explain Jones's signature on the 9/11 statement, says Jones "didn't carefully review" the document before signing it.


So again. White house does not deny he signed it. They confirm it, in fact. By saying that he simply didn't read it. But you still can't accept that he signed it. Why is that?

1575 lorien1973  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:35:54am

He organizes protest marches in favor of cop killers.

This is the guy you are covering for. Nice.

1576 JarHeadLifer  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:37:02am

re: #1574 lorien1973

You're obtuse, aren't you?

U


So again. White house does not deny he signed it. They confirm it, in fact. By saying that he simply didn't read it. But you still can't accept that he signed it. Why is that?

He signed it. It's crystal clear to anyone who gives a fair reading to any of the numerous reports filed the last 12 hours by well-respected journalists. As for the "signing" deniers, it seems many are wrestling with how they want their crow prepared for consumption.

1577 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:38:26am

re: #1574 lorien1973

Again- that's an unnamed source.

1578 lorien1973  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:41:38am

re: #1577 Sharmuta

It's always an un-named source. That's how it works. If it's un-named, you'd think they'd the best spin possible, right? Why wouldn't this un-named source simply say "no, he didn't sign it." That would be end of story. Right there.

Cuz they know he did. Stop being a tool and accept reality. He signed the petition.

The white house won't even say, now, that he has their full confidence. That's how bad it is. It's absolutely stunning to me, that people still say "no, he's not a truther".

1579 Drider  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:41:45am

re: #1575 lorien1973

He organizes protest marches in favor of cop killers.

This is the guy you are covering for. Nice.

Bud, be fair. Charles looked at the evidence and came to his own conclusions, It doesn't mean he is in favor of killing cops.

I see those "wide brush" comparisons all the time on some of these blog sites.
Don't go down that road Lorien, it can only serve to discredit you.

1580 NukeAtomrod  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:42:50am

re: #2 Charles

If I have to choose between believing Van Jones or believing 9/11 Truthers, there's no contest.

Truthers lie constantly. It boggles my mind that people are willing to accept their word for anything.

So if Van Jones is a Truther, is it not logical to assume he'd be willing to lie about it in order to keep his job? As a matter of fact, political figures aren't exactly poster models for honesty.

1581 Sharmuta  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:43:27am

re: #1578 lorien1973

And you believed unnamed sources for the last 8 years?

1582 auldtrafford  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:44:36am

Just curious what the spin will be if Jonesey is outsky by Monday (as many are now predicting)? [Latest: Gibbs refused, this morning, to say Jones enjoys the President's confidence - will only say "He works for this Administration."]

Vast right-wing conspiracy?
Troother lies?
Took a bullet for the team?
Jones wasn't candid with the vetting team?
It's Bush's fault?
"I want to spend more time with the family?"
Nobody listens to the truth any more?
OR - good old racism?

1583 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:45:29am
1584 Salamantis  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:46:41am

From what I have seen, it seems likely to me that Van Jones did indeed pay knee-jerk lip service to some elements of Trutherism, if for no other reason than to ‘go with the flow’ of his anti-Bush moonbat peers.

However, thoughtlessly and heedlessly swimming with lemmings just because they love-bomb you and call you a brother in the Great Anti-Bush cause is no excuse for embracing the patently absurd, and for that reason I consider him to have committed an idiotarianism.

My advice for Obama? Replace him with Van Morrison:

1585 lorien1973  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:47:03am

re: #1581 Sharmuta

Why would an un-named source -not- say "No. He never signed it." ? No risk if its a lie and it possibly ends the story.

So why isn't the white house saying that much? And why are they distancing themselves from him?

These aren't hard questions. In fact, the answers are obvious.

1586 JohnH  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:47:37am

For crying out loud, this Jones knucklehead believes in left crap like "green jobs". It's not much of a stretch to believe he is a troofer.

1587 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:50:04am
1588 auldtrafford  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 9:50:53am

re: #1586 JohnH

For crying out loud, this Jones knucklehead believes in left crap like "green jobs". It's not much of a stretch to believe he is a troofer.

Yeah, I think we can come in from the cold, now. There's so much on this guy, it's OK to criticize him without being called a racist. Still a little shaky on Obama - but color Jones "gone".

1589 Salamantis  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 10:12:38am

Let me be clear; any such Trutherism on Van Jones' part seems to have been intermittent and tertiary, rather than being a primary focus with him.

However, it was still entered into unreflectively and uncritically, as a 'membership in the kewl kidz clique' kind of thing, in an environment where such sentiments were de rigeur in the far left circles he frequented, and that sort of failure to apply independent reasoned judgment does not speak well of his capacity to perform responsibly in an influential position in a federal administration.

1590 sven10077  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 10:24:17am

re: #2 Charles

If I have to choose between believing Van Jones or believing 9/11 Truthers, there's no contest.

Truthers lie constantly. It boggles my mind that people are willing to accept their word for anything.

I agree, it is stunning that people can't see that a guy who signed his name to piece of paper, without reading it I guess(since he has never stated why no I never signed it)is totally qualified to make use of that wonderful Harvard law intellect to adminster 30 billion dollars worth of personal non-vetted, non-consent adn advised approval.

I suspect the reality of that we are seeing is certain people who have trouble with the truther movement as a theoretical enemy will not confront their adeherents as a practical one if they are fans of the current regime. To wit, it is OK that Catherine Van Jones is/was a troofer because he was REALLY doing it just to hurt Bush with partisan sh**storms based on fantasy.

Indeed, just the sort of guy we need for one of Barry's 57 Tsars.

1591 The Left  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 10:59:57am

re: #1585 lorien1973

Why would an un-named source -not- say "No. He never signed it." ? No risk if its a lie and it possibly ends the story.

So why isn't the white house saying that much? And why are they distancing themselves from him?

These aren't hard questions. In fact, the answers are obvious.

It's obvious you are a fool who is willing to believe anything, from any source, even truthers, so long as it confirms you in your ODS.

1592 The Left  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:02:47am

re: #1586 JohnH

For crying out loud, this Jones knucklehead believes in left crap like "green jobs". It's not much of a stretch to believe he is a troofer.

Did you leave off a sarc tag, or do you genuinely believe that anyone who supports the idea of 'green jobs' in principle is a truther?

1593 sven10077  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:34:18am

re: #1591 iceweasel

it seems Van Jones like Chairman Soetoro(hey can I uh borrow your uh kids?) has "foes" who have mastered the art of repealing the space/time continuum as Jones and Soetoro have mastered repealing the laws of supply and demand. How did "the real troofers" know Van was going to be one of the cast of Barry's 'Dancing with the Tsars'?

Can I get stock tips from the geniuses of pre-cognition who called the appointment in the future simply as a way to damage a President of the party they were in effect working for in undermining Bush with their idiocy?


Either the troofers are run by the amazing Karnak or and I say this in good cheer, perhaps Barry should have picked people who don't have dirty laundry that won't stand up tho the vetting process?

1594 sven10077  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 11:59:21am

[Link: newsbusters.org...]

Van has a hard job...he can't even define what a green job is...but luckily he has a 30 billion dollar treasure chest with no congressional oversight to find out...

Q:Why are we still without an objective definition of a green job?


A) Well, we still don't have a unified definition, and that's not unusual in a democracy. It takes a while for all the states and the federal government to come to some agreement. But the Department of Labor is working on it very diligently. Fundamentally, it's getting there, but we haven't crossed the finish line yet.

1595 Gmac  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 4:12:23pm

re: #9 Charles

Ouch, I wasn't remarking on your comment, just bad timing that your's popped just before mine did. My intent was to state that if you believe what he and that site state then I've got a deal for you.

I don't care for Truthers or people that hold the beliefs that Van Jones does.
My beliefs and politics are on the opposite end of the spectrum from his.

1596 horse  Fri, Sep 4, 2009 7:49:57pm

re: #1594 sven10077

[Link: newsbusters.org...]

Van has a hard job...he can't even define what a green job is...but luckily he has a 30 billion dollar treasure chest with no congressional oversight to find out...

Green job, red job, doesn't matter. They're all the same in a color blind socialist paradise.


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