Illinois Man Arrested in Alleged Bomb Plot

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In Illinois, another plot to commit mass murder foiled long in advance by authorities: Alleged would-be bomber described as humble, polite.

Over the two years that authorities tracked Michael C. Finton, accused Thursday of trying to bomb Springfield’s federal courthouse, they gave Finton plenty of chances to drop the idea. …

Authorities say Finton tried Wednesday to ignite what he thought was a huge quantity of explosives contained in a van parked near Sixth and Monroe streets. Finton allegedly expected the resulting blast to kill everyone in the Paul Findley Federal Building, plus “take out” an office of U.S. Rep. Aaron Schock across the intersection.

As it turned out, however, law enforcement authorities had been aware of Finton’s plans for more than two years, the affidavit said. As a result, a man Finton allegedly thought was a low-level operative of the al-Qaida terror network was actually an undercover FBI special agent, and there were no explosives in the van.

Instead of the van blowing up when Finton dialed a cell phone number, agents swooped in to arrest him.

On Thursday, Finton, who authorities said also used the name “Talib Islam,” was brought before a federal judge in the same building he allegedly had targeted.

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136 comments
1 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:25:03am

He was described as polite?
"Excuse me, but may I park by truck bomb here?"

2 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:25:12am

I gotta say, once more, nice work, good guys!

3 bosforus  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:25:17am

I've been described the same way. Uh-oh.

4 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:25:36am
... in the same building he allegedly had targeted.

Nice irony.

Pleasant dreams in the slammer, asshole.

5 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:25:48am
6 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:26:08am

Finton, who had served a sentence in state prison for aggravated robbery and aggravated battery, was arrested in August 2007 for violating conditions of his supervised release. At that point, his parole officer found several of Finton’s writings, including a letter he had written to John Walker Lindh, an American who was captured fighting for the Taliban in Afghanistan in 2001 and imprisoned on terrorism violations.

Over a period of months, Finton allegedly told the acquaintance, who was cooperating with authorities, that he wanted to go overseas and become a jihadist fighter.

SNIP

At another point, the affidavit states, Finton “said the attack would be an historic occasion. … Finton said it was his biggest dream to be the first domino to fall, to be the one who brought the whole thing crashing down. He said that if his deeds were accepted (by God), then his sins would be forgiven because of his intention. He spoke again of his hope that the attack would cause American troops to be pulled back out of Afghanistan and Iraq.”

SNIP


Finton reportedly told the government source that he “would rather die as a shaheed (Arabic for martyr) than to try to live his life here. He said his goal was to do something that was going to be a catalyst for establishing a Muslim Caliphate. He said he wanted to be (sic) a historical event.”

Finton reportedly converted to Islam during his prison stay. The name “Talib Islam,” a nickname Finton used in Muslim circles, is Arabic for “student of Islam.”

SNIP

7 Pianobuff  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:26:47am

re: #1 Kosh's Shadow

He was described as polite?
"Excuse me, but may I park by truck bomb here?"

"the gentleman bomber"

8 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:27:00am

How soon before CAIR claims entrapment?

9 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:27:28am

re: #5 buzzsawmonkey

Reminds me of a pre-WWII joke among Hawaiian residents.
Mrs. Smith would ask her Japanese maid
"If war with Japan breaks out, are you going to kill me?"
"No, I kill Mrs. Johnson. Mrs. Johnson's maid kill you."

10 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:27:36am

Will his attorney move for a change of venue?

11 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:27:57am

From reading through things a bit, he sounds like yet another spiritual vagabond who found comfort and purpose in the jihadist cause. 70 years ago, he'd have been a Communist or an anarchist.

12 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:28:56am

The FBI reportedly told him it was not too late to back out. I hope there are recordings.

13 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:28:57am

I wonder when he called the number to set off the bomb, and nothing happened, did he say
"Where's the kaboom? There's supposed to be an Earth-shattering kaboom."

14 Dynomite  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:28:59am

They can't stop me. I'm on a mission form Allah!

15 Danny  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:29:11am

Instead of the van blowing up when Finton dialed a cell phone number, agents swooped in to arrest him.

Gives new meaning to "Your number cannot be completed as dialed."

16 HelloDare  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:29:33am

re: #8 MandyManners

How soon before CAIR claims entrapment?

Obama entrap?

17 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:30:03am

re: #5 buzzsawmonkey

The "humble, polite" characterization reminds me of Ogden Nash's WWII-era verse:

How courteous is the Japanese
He always says, "Excuse it, please."
He climbs into his neighbor's garden
And smiles and says, "I beg your pardon."
He bows and grins a friendly grin
And calls his hungry family in
He grins and bows a friendly bow
"So sorry, this my garden now."

Ah. So appropriate.

/the rest deferred until after the 100th comment

18 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:30:22am

re: #13 Kosh's Shadow

I wonder when he called the number to set off the bomb, and nothing happened, did he say
"Where's the kaboom? There's supposed to be an Earth-shattering kaboom."

Bubba's gonna' show him a new "kaboom".

19 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:30:23am

re: #16 HelloDare

Obama entrap?

The entrapment began before his administration; this would be yet another problem he inherited.

20 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:30:31am

Note that it sounds like this guy was never actually in touch with any real Al Qaeda members. The whole thing was an FBI sting.

21 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:30:37am

So, he turned to Islam while in prison, and then formulated this plot. That raises questions over what those doing the converting and proselytizing are saying that gets them to think of jihad as a fighting struggle rather than a spiritual one. It's a question that has been raised before, and should continue to receive scrutiny.

Moreover, it's great news that law enforcement stopped him before he was able to carry out his deadly intent. They definitely were on the ball with this case.

22 JohnAdams  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:30:38am

Recording:
"Hello, you have reached Dial-a-Bomb. You're under arrest Asshole."

23 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:30:43am

They are still out there.

Thanks to the authorities for the fidelity.

24 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:31:13am

re: #16 HelloDare

Obama entrap?

The FBI knew of his plans for two years.

25 bosforus  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:31:24am

re: #20 Charles

It almost makes you feel sorry for the guy. Actually, no it doesn't.

26 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:31:27am

re: #20 Charles

Note that it sounds like this guy was never actually in touch with any real Al Qaeda members. The whole thing was an FBI sting.

But he did want to be. And if we had let him, maybe he would have been able to. Look at Richard Reid.

27 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:31:35am

re: #20 Charles

Note that it sounds like this guy was never actually in touch with any real Al Qaeda members. The whole thing was an FBI sting.

And he got stung.

28 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:31:40am

Terror Interruptus - three plots stopped, so Kudos to all of the agencies involved. It seems that criminal investigations of terrorists do work on the domestic front, and further that the agencies didn't change stride crossing from the Bush administration to the Obama administration. (at least two of these investigations were geared up while Bush was still president.)

29 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:31:47am

re: #13 Kosh's Shadow

He forgot the Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator.

30 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:32:07am

These arrests seem convenient. No one in any actual danger, and the feds can just swoop in and roll up the perps.

31 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:32:30am

re: #29 lawhawk

Veeery Aaangreee!

32 JohnAdams  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:32:34am

Let's hope we don't find ourselves, in the coming days or weeks, wishing that Zazi was on the waterboard right now.

33 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:32:52am

re: #30 Noam Sayin'

These arrests seem convenient. No one in any actual danger, and the feds can just swoop in and roll up the perps.

Best kind, to my mind. Shows real professionalism, and has the added benefit of making other cells doubt themselves and their contacts. Very disruptive.

34 captdiggs  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:32:59am

re: #20 Charles

Note that it sounds like this guy was never actually in touch with any real Al Qaeda members. The whole thing was an FBI sting.

You have to give serious credit to the FBI and all those in the intel services this week.
They are doing a good job at a very hard task.
Especially the lone nut out to do damage. That's a real nightmare scenario for all these agencies.

35 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:33:42am

re: #20 Charles

Of the three plots uncovered and announced this week, only the Zazi plot directly or tangentially involved AQ (Zazi traveled to Pakistan to learn from AQ). The other two are homegrown jihadi wannabes. In many ways, it's the Illinois and Dallas cases that are tougher to track because they involve fewer people and don't have any apparent connections to outside assistance or AQ.

36 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:33:54am

Appeasement works!
/

37 HelloDare  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:34:16am

It's amazing that there has not been more successful attempts. Many of the plots, I'm not saying this one, have been discovered by pure luck.

38 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:34:21am

Dear George,

Thank you for the Patriot Act...

/?

39 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:34:49am

Problem, Dynomite?

40 Kragar  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:35:13am

I'm trying to find a common thread between the bombing plots but can't put my finger on it.

/

41 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:35:26am

re: #30 Noam Sayin'

These arrests seem convenient. No one in any actual danger, and the feds can just swoop in and roll up the perps.

And the defense attorneys will claim entrapment (as they always do in these situations).

The problem is that while the law enforcement likely used informants to get details of the plots and to make the necessary chances to prevent actual bombs from being built/deployed, the intent to engage in a conspiracy (if more than one person was involved) and to build those weapons and to kill was there.

42 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:35:58am

Great thing about these stings on lone wolf types is that they can sow doubt and mistrust in the minds of those currently in "real" terror plots or cells. If every case so far has shown that the cells are all stings, who's to say that this or that particular cell isn't also a sting? Very clever.

43 JohnAdams  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:36:14am

re: #40 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm trying to find a common thread between the bombing plots but can't put my finger on it.

/

You put your forehead on it.

44 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:36:15am

Charles -

Looks like the Israeli government wants to give you press credentials.

Will stalkers start hating Israel for that?


The Government Press Office (GPO) is considering granting leading bloggers press credentials equal to those of journalists and reporters.

Bloggers like these from the recent Second International Jewish Bloggers Convention in Jerusalem may soon be eligible for GPO credentials.

Ron Dermer, a senior adviser to the prime minister, took the opportunity to formally recognize the work bloggers do in defending Israel and uncovering fraudulent claims against the Jewish state at the International Jewish Bloggers Convention last week.

Lauding the work of bloggers in defending Israel, Dermer claimed that "The blogger [Charles Johnson of Little Green Footballs] who revealed Reuters' doctoring of images during the Second Lebanon War did as much as any Israeli intelligence officer did."

High praise.

Yet another existential crisis awaits your detractors. Wonder what new rabbit they will boil in response.

45 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:36:25am

The cell phone detonator that didn't.. It reminds me of that famous picture from Iraq from the IED tech. 1 Call Missed.

46 brennant  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:37:16am

re: #44 karmic_inquisitor

Congrats Charles!

47 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:37:18am

re: #35 lawhawk

Of the three plots uncovered and announced this week, only the Zazi plot directly or tangentially involved AQ (Zazi traveled to Pakistan to learn from AQ). The other two are homegrown jihadi wannabes. In many ways, it's the Illinois and Dallas cases that are tougher to track because they involve fewer people and don't have any apparent connections to outside assistance or AQ.

It's a good question as to which is really more dangerous: the jihadis with "pro" connections who traveled afar, or the lone wolf homegrown. Needless to say any of these carried to fruition would have been disastrous, but which is ultimately more dangerous? You could debate that all day, and still be nowhere closer to knowing. I think we need to be on the lookout on both fronts for quite a while.

48 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:37:55am

re: #32 JohnAdams

Let's hope we don't find ourselves, in the coming days or weeks, wishing that Zazi was on the waterboard right now.

Are you suggesting that Zazi should be waterboarded?

49 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:38:18am

These two events were scheduled to happen this week. Look what's happening in D.C. today.

[Link: www.islamoncapitolhill.com...]

Hat tip to NJDhockeyfan.

50 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:38:44am

re: #44 karmic_inquisitor

Wow. That's impressive and high praise indeed. The fact is that the Israeli FM and military have needed outside assistance on a regular basis to combat the propaganda spewed by a biased and incurious media, and the overt propaganda spewed by the terrorists themselves. Kudos to Charles on the recognition of such - along with all the others who helped debunk the claims.

51 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:39:09am

re: #39 Noam Sayin'

Problem, Dynomite?

52 HelloDare  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:39:15am

re: #44 karmic_inquisitor

Wonder how Charles' attackers will take this news. Heh!

53 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:39:26am

re: #45 Mich-again

The cell phone detonator that didn't.. It reminds me of that famous picture from Iraq from the IED tech. 1 Call Missed.

Or you could link to the source of that image:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

54 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:39:40am

re: #44 karmic_inquisitor

Very impressive. Heads exploding in 3...2...1...

And Zombie did great work too, exposing the ridiculous lie about the UN ambulance that had been allegedly targeted by an Israeli missile.

55 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:39:44am

re: #49 MandyManners

These two events were scheduled to happen this week. Look what's happening in D.C. today.

[Link: www.islamoncapitolhill.com...]

Hat tip to NJDhockeyfan.

Another good day to not be on the Metro.

56 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:39:50am

re: #44 karmic_inquisitor

Charles -

Looks like the Israeli government wants to give you press credentials.

Will stalkers start hating Israel for that?

High praise.

Yet another existential crisis awaits your detractors. Wonder what new rabbit they will boil in response.

The stalkers will keep saying Charles is really going to turn anti-Israel. After all, he "turned" against their favorite positions on other topics.

They don't understand consistency or anti-idiotarianism.
And I've seen absolutely no indication of Charles changing his position on Israel; quite the contrary. We just don't discuss Israel as often.

57 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:40:18am

re: #47 Thanos

I'm wondering if since many of the jihadis are either foreign born, or have foreign ties, if they tend to generate more chatter. The local threat I suspect would be more localized and possibly less likely to plan extensively online. Mind you I'm probably just talking out of my ass

58 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:40:24am

re: #44 karmic_inquisitor

Charles -

Looks like the Israeli government wants to give you press credentials.

Will stalkers start hating Israel for that?

High praise.

Yet another existential crisis awaits your detractors. Wonder what new rabbit they will boil in response.

Right on! Right on!

59 Neutral President  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:40:25am

re: #44 karmic_inquisitor

Charles -

Looks like the Israeli government wants to give you press credentials.

Will stalkers start hating Israel for that?

High praise.

Yet another existential crisis awaits your detractors. Wonder what new rabbit they will boil in response.

Well it will shoot another hole in their "Charles is going to abandon Israel and support the Paleostinians!!1!" theory, but never let facts get in the way of a good hate.

60 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:41:19am

re: #53 Charles

Yeah that would have been better. I forgot where I picked that up. Duh.

61 JohnAdams  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:42:13am

re: #48 Walter L. Newton

More a rhetorical question, in light of the recent crackdown on CIA interrogation techniques. If a dreaded scenario unfolds involving one of Zazi's compatriots who got away, this issue will come up. Waterboarding and lack of waterboarding can both be ugly, depending on how you look at it.

62 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:42:37am

re: #49 MandyManners

These two events were scheduled to happen this week. Look what's happening in D.C. today.

[Link: www.islamoncapitolhill.com...]

Hat tip to NJDhockeyfan.

As I noted downstairs, September 21 marked the end of Ramadan. One of the would-be attackers - not sure which - mentioned that he had originally planned to act on 9.11, but switched the date to the 20th to mark this date, which apparently has some special significance. Eid begins immediately following Ramadan, as well.

I don't think the events are linked in any way other than perhaps being tied to the Islamic calendar.

63 HelloDare  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:42:51am

re: #56 Kosh's Shadow

The stalkers will keep saying Charles is really going to turn anti-Israel. After all, he "turned" against their favorite positions on other topics.

Maybe. It's really hard for a sane person to predict how a nutjob will do.

64 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:43:17am

re: #44 karmic_inquisitor

Charles -

Looks like the Israeli government wants to give you press credentials.

Will stalkers start hating Israel for that?

High praise.

Yet another existential crisis awaits your detractors. Wonder what new rabbit they will boil in response.

"Prejudices are what fools use for reason."-Voltaire

65 baier  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:43:23am

Holy cow! I did realize this was a new post...wtf is going on?

66 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:43:56am

Organized by the head of Dar-ul-Islam, Hassen Ibn Abdellah.

[Link: dar-ul-islam.org...]

67 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:44:26am

re: #57 McSpiff

I'm wondering if since many of the jihadis are either foreign born, or have foreign ties, if they tend to generate more chatter. The local threat I suspect would be more localized and possibly less likely to plan extensively online. Mind you I'm probably just talking out of my ass

If you look close at the lone wolfs they had to have been flagged by either a tip, or by frequenting an extremist site "honeypot". A honeypot is a site decked out all wahabbi/bin ladenist or all Hezbollah/Iranian that appears real extreme to troll for those lone wolves.

68 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:44:31am

re: #63 HelloDare

Maybe. It's really hard for a sane person to predict how a nutjob will do.

True. If you could always predict what nutjobs will do, they wouldn't be nearly as dangerous.

69 Neutral President  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:45:15am

re: #68 Mich-again

True. If you could always predict what nutjobs will do, they wouldn't be nearly as dangerous.

9/11 wouldn't have happened.

70 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:45:35am

According to NJDhockey fan, Abdellah has been representing terrorists for years.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

71 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:46:08am

re: #67 Thanos

I've often wondered if Free Republic is the same idea. FBI agents trolling ATF agents trolling...

72 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:46:09am

re: #62 SixDegrees

As I noted downstairs, September 21 marked the end of Ramadan. One of the would-be attackers - not sure which - mentioned that he had originally planned to act on 9.11, but switched the date to the 20th to mark this date, which apparently has some special significance. Eid begins immediately following Ramadan, as well.

I don't think the events are linked in any way other than perhaps being tied to the Islamic calendar.

The Denver case, which is unlinked, could have made the investigators in the lone wolf cases nervous, they could have decided to spring the traps before their suspects balked.

73 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:47:06am

re: #70 MandyManners

According to NJDhockey fan, Abdellah has been representing terrorists for years.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I don't get how on earth a person could defend a terrorist. What would you say? Aside from pleading innocent by way of insanity, how exactly could you make a case against all the physical evidence attendant with a terrorist operation? Why would you even WANT to?

74 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:47:10am

From the LGF Dictionary, Dar-ul-Islam means "House of Islam," or "House of Submission" or "House of Peace." Any country under Islamic rule, or -- more commonly -- all Muslim countries as a group.

75 Colin Nelson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:47:17am

Note:

Dinner jacket is about to reply to the slap the Obamatron (and Sarko, and Brown), gave him on the 2nd nuclear enrichment facility news.

Demanding an apology...

76 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:47:25am

re: #54 Mich-again

And Zombie did great work too, exposing the ridiculous lie about the UN ambulance that had been allegedly targeted by an Israeli missile.

Speaking of the metabolically-challenged cerebravore, I came across a reference to Zombie in an unexpected place today. Scroll down to the small "Real Life" section at the bottom of [Link: tvtropes.org...]

77 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:47:52am

re: #73 thedopefishlives

I don't get how on earth a person could defend a terrorist. What would you say? Aside from pleading innocent by way of insanity, how exactly could you make a case against all the physical evidence attendant with a terrorist operation? Why would you even WANT to?

Everyone charged with a crime in the United States has the right to an attorney.

78 JamesTKirk  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:48:10am

re: #73 thedopefishlives

I don't get how on earth a person could defend a terrorist. What would you say? Aside from pleading innocent by way of insanity, how exactly could you make a case against all the physical evidence attendant with a terrorist operation? Why would you even WANT to?

(1) Fellow traveller
(2) $$$

79 JohnAdams  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:48:13am

re: #62 SixDegrees

As I noted downstairs, September 21 marked the end of Ramadan. One of the would-be attackers - not sure which - mentioned that he had originally planned to act on 9.11, but switched the date to the 20th to mark this date, which apparently has some special significance. Eid begins immediately following Ramadan, as well.

I don't think the events are linked in any way other than perhaps being tied to the Islamic calendar.

One wouldn't want to blow up a whole building full of people during the Holy Month. Bad form old man.

80 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:48:31am

re: #77 MandyManners

Everyone charged with a crime in the United States has the right to an attorney.

They have the right to an attorney. That doesn't mean the attorney chosen has to represent them. If it was a court-ordered attorney, it would make more sense, but this guy volunteers to represent terrorists.

81 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:48:38am

re: #72 Thanos

The Denver case, which is unlinked, could have made the investigators in the lone wolf cases nervous, they could have decided to spring the traps before their suspects balked.

There have been rumors that the NY police bodged part of the invetigation and triggered Federal intervention earlier than planned. Not sure if this is true.

At any rate, the wrap up may also be due to the proximity of these dates, if authorities started getting nervous about their approach and had hints that a plan was coming together.

Sounds like these groups are heavily infiltrated, too, which is a good thing and the only really effective way to deal with them over the long run.

82 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:48:40am

re: #75 Colin Nelson

Note:

Dinner jacket is about to reply to the slap the Obamatron (and Sarko, and Brown), gave him on the 2nd nuclear enrichment facility news.

Demanding an apology...

10 bucks says he gets it from 1 of the 3.
5 bucks says he gets from 2 of the 3.
Sarko isn't one of the 2.

83 Neutral President  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:48:40am

re: #70 MandyManners

According to NJDhockey fan, Abdellah has been representing terrorists for years.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Jihadi equivalent to an Ambulance Chaser? What would that be called?

/سيارة إسعاف المطار د

84 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:48:52am

Talib Islam had a MySpace webpage up as early as this morning. It has since been taken down but here is Google's cache if you want to see it.

85 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:49:18am

re: #59 ArchangelMichael

Well it will shoot another hole in their "Charles is going to abandon Israel and support the Paleostinians!!1!" theory, but never let facts get in the way of a good hate.

That triggered a thought - a good retort to the stalkers on anything about this would be "Don't you think Israeli Intelligence would have come to an opinion about Charles' intentions prior to the government making such an announcement?"

That should peg the cognitive dissonance meter.

86 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:49:51am

re: #73 thedopefishlives

A documentary I really enjoyed on the subject was "Devil's Advocate".

87 HelloDare  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:50:02am

re: #69 ArchangelMichael

9/11 wouldn't have happened.

That was predictable. There was the first World Trade Center bombing and, what was it, six other attacks by radical Islam on America under Clinton.

88 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:50:22am

re: #73 thedopefishlives

I don't get how on earth a person could defend a terrorist. What would you say? Aside from pleading innocent by way of insanity, how exactly could you make a case against all the physical evidence attendant with a terrorist operation? Why would you even WANT to?

Well, this is what criminal defense lawyers do. It's the basis of the American justice system.

89 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:50:24am

re: #78 JamesTKirk

Notoriety and a desire to uphold the Constitutionally protected right to counsel under the 5th Amendment.

90 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:50:38am

re: #80 thedopefishlives

They have the right to an attorney. That doesn't mean the attorney chosen has to represent them. If it was a court-ordered attorney, it would make more sense, but this guy volunteers to represent terrorists.

Have you read my posts about Abdellah's group, Dar-ul-Islam? NJDHockeyfan and--IIRC--turn, posted the links in the previous thread.

91 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:51:07am

re: #83 ArchangelMichael

Jihadi equivalent to an Ambulance Chaser? What would that be called?

/سيارة إسعاف المطار د

Car-swarm chaser?

92 baier  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:51:34am

OT,
About 9-10 mins into last August's, This American Life, is a fascinating story about a survivor of the London bombings that confronts conspiracy theorists who don't believe the bombings even happened. I thought it would interest some people here.

Act One. What Part of “Bomb” Don't You Understand?
Rachel North was on a train that got blown up during the London subway bombings. After writing a very popular blog about her experience and her recovery afterward, Rachel became a spokeswoman for a survivors' group. Then conspiracy theorists—who believed that there were no bombings and that the whole thing was a cover-up by the British government—started attacking her online, saying she was a spy...or a plant by the police...or,worse, that she didn't exist at all.
93 Neutral President  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:51:50am

re: #87 HelloDare

That was predictable. There was the first World Trade Center bombing and, what was it, six other attacks by radical Islam on America under Clinton.

Specific time and date was not predicable without intelligence. I was implying mroe that if nutjobs could be predicted, the whole chain of events that led up to 9/11 would have been nipped in the bud about a decade before it happened.

94 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:51:54am

re: #49 MandyManners

These two events were scheduled to happen this week. Look what's happening in D.C. today.

[Link: www.islamoncapitolhill.com...]

Hat tip to NJDhockeyfan.

I'm not going to touch this story. It's already been hijacked by the anti-Muslim blogs. They can have it.

95 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:52:26am

re: #74 MandyManners

From the LGF Dictionary, Dar-ul-Islam means "House of Islam," or "House of Submission" or "House of Peace." Any country under Islamic rule, or -- more commonly -- all Muslim countries as a group.

Darul Islam is Wahabbi, in India they are the group that issued the "Anti-Terror" Fatwa, however at the time I looked at it with jaundiced eye because the people pimping the fatwa were using it more as a platform to flog the Indian Gov't for terror investigations and Islamophobia. There's also a Darul Islam (alt spellings I've seen: Darool Islam, Dar Ul Islam, etc. ) that was involved in some contretemps in the NE, but I can't remember the details atm.
Their sites which I used to visit were pretty extreme up to a year ago, but since have "cleaned up".

96 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:52:46am

re: #81 SixDegrees

There have been rumors that the NY police bodged part of the invetigation and triggered Federal intervention earlier than planned. Not sure if this is true.

At any rate, the wrap up may also be due to the proximity of these dates, if authorities started getting nervous about their approach and had hints that a plan was coming together.

Sounds like these groups are heavily infiltrated, too, which is a good thing and the only really effective way to deal with them over the long run.

I was in NYC last week when this came down. From what I was hearing on TV and other reports, nothing was "bodged." What happened was they were so worried about something coming down really soon, that they arrested 7 men in Queens, even though they knew they couldn't hold them.

It was more of a signal to the whole cell that the "jig" was up. As far as I know, the seven were released in 24 hours.

That's what the story was in NYC when I was there.

97 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:53:03am

re: #88 Charles

Well, this is what criminal defense lawyers do. It's the basis of the American justice system.

Yeah, oh one level, I know that. It's just, urgh, I couldn't imagine an occupation where I had to defend people who are obviously guilty of horrendous wrongdoing. Not to mention I've had my head in a few civil cases lately, and criminal defense is a different mindset.

re: #90 MandyManners

Have you read my posts about Abdellah's group, Dar-ul-Islam? NJDHockeyfan and--IIRC--turn, posted the links in the previous thread.

I skimmed over some of it. Yeah.

98 [deleted]  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:53:58am
99 Cygnus  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:54:13am

re: #43 JohnAdams

You put your forehead on it.

On the buzzing prayer rug!

100 baier  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:54:13am

re: #73 thedopefishlives

I don't get how on earth a person could defend a terrorist. What would you say? Aside from pleading innocent by way of insanity, how exactly could you make a case against all the physical evidence attendant with a terrorist operation? Why would you even WANT to?

Entrapment. I Imagine the defense may argue that if the Feds hadn't gotten involved the would be bomber may never have had the resources or will to have reached the point that he could have put people in danger.

101 Colin Nelson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:54:27am

re: #82 Oh no...Sand People!

LOL!

Sarko is on his tip-toes - walking tall heading for the Dec showdown with the Persians!

"Wow", I thought, Sarko really means it...

Then, in his excellent French, he floated the entire 'threat' on a future conditionalverb. , as in, if you don't, we might just sometime decide to possibly do something...

102 Guanxi88  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:54:54am

re: #90 MandyManners

Have you read my posts about Abdellah's group, Dar-ul-Islam? NJDHockeyfan and--IIRC--turn, posted the links in the previous thread.

In his case, I think it's for the $$$ and the ideology. He doesn't provide active support for jihadist violence in its planning or execution stages, but does provide legal assistance to the holy warriors who end up in dutch with John Law.

103 HelloDare  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:55:02am

re: #49 MandyManners

These two events were scheduled to happen this week. Look what's happening in D.C. today.

[Link: www.islamoncapitolhill.com...]

Hat tip to NJDhockeyfan.

Instead of calling for "Islamic Unity", they should be decrying Islamic terrorists.

104 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:55:21am

re: #100 baier

Entrapment. I Imagine the defense may argue that if the Feds hadn't gotten involved the would be bomber may never have had the resources or will to have reached the point that he could have put people in danger.

This defense has been used before, have they ever had any luck with it? I remember the defense in one case essentially arguing that the fed informant had been the ring leader.

105 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:55:37am

re: #96 Walter L. Newton

Right now, three men were arrested - Zazi, his father, and the imam. The imam was released on a signficant bail (over $1 million IRC). He was providing intel to law enforcement, but also apparently tipped off Zazi that law enforcement was coming calling for him. That's why he was apparently arrested. As it stands, there may be several other people of interest in connection to the Zazi case in NYC that law enforcement is keen on getting. They're also busy gathering evidence, which apparently included finding bomb residue on a kitchen vent in Zazi's residence in Colorado. He was apparently attempting to cook up explosives in his apartment.

106 Oh no...Sand People!  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:55:55am

re: #101 Colin Nelson

LOL!

Sarko is on his tip-toes - walking tall heading for the Dec showdown with the Persians!

"Wow", I thought, Sarko really means it...

Then, in his excellent French, he floated the entire 'threat' on a future conditionalverb. , as in, if you don't, we might just sometime decide to possibly do something...

Telling when we look to the French for strength, no?

107 Neutral President  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:56:02am

re: #91 MandyManners

Car-swarm chaser?

I had to put an extra space in that so that Charles' code wouldn't clobber it so it might not correctly translate in reverse.

108 bosforus  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:57:15am

re: #97 thedopefishlives

Well someone's gotta find a way to declare a mistrial.

109 baier  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:57:18am

re: #104 McSpiff

This defense has been used before, have they ever had any luck with it? I remember the defense in one case essentially arguing that the fed informant had been the ring leader.

Don't know if it would succeed, but based on my extensive knowledge of Law, all of which I learned watching TV, I think that's what they would do.

110 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:58:11am

re: #5 buzzsawmonkey

What I deferred to after-the-100th-comment was this. Since I always seem to be following up on your posts, you're probably entitled to say:
... "Curses! Foiled again!"

111 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:58:24am

re: #84 NJDhockeyfan

Talib Islam had a MySpace webpage up as early as this morning. It has since been taken down but here is Google's cache if you want to see it.

He appears to be Hezbollah/Shia influenced by the friends list on the page.

112 Bagua  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:59:40am

Whats this? Another post about Right Wing Religious Conservatives?

/are there no liberals to write about

113 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 10:59:57am

re: #105 lawhawk

* warning * completely speculative *

FWIW, I think that there are probably more Imams out there helping the FBI Just look at the last two arrests (Illinois / Texas) and notice that the FBI provided the Al Qaeda cell that each perp thought he was working with.

That means that there is a common place where such people feel comfortable stating their intentions and looking to get "hooked up" with AQ. The fact that the NY Imam turned and got burned is a good thing - sends out a message to any others in the program.

114 SixDegrees  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:00:09am

re: #105 lawhawk

Right now, three men were arrested - Zazi, his father, and the imam. The imam was released on a signficant bail (over $1 million IRC). He was providing intel to law enforcement, but also apparently tipped off Zazi that law enforcement was coming calling for him. That's why he was apparently arrested. As it stands, there may be several other people of interest in connection to the Zazi case in NYC that law enforcement is keen on getting. They're also busy gathering evidence, which apparently included finding bomb residue on a kitchen vent in Zazi's residence in Colorado. He was apparently attempting to cook up explosives in his apartment.

As of today, there's supposedly a tape of Zazi ordering explosive materials. I haven't followed the story at all. It would be interesting to know what became of whatever he ordered and whatever he was making with it.

115 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:01:21am

re: #94 Charles

I'm not going to touch this story. It's already been hijacked by the anti-Muslim blogs. They can have it.

Are they spewing or are they researching and fact-checking?

116 Colin Nelson  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:02:23am

re: #106 Oh no...Sand People!

Always fun to follow the bouncing French ball (bawl!)

When Bush (R) wanted to take significant action against Iraq, the French FM de Villepin (Euro liberal), blew it up.

Several years forward and

USA Obama (D), wants to (relatively) take it easy on the Persians while Sarko ( Euro right), can smell the cordite.

Plus ca change...

The French like to think that they still matter and that they can actually project power.

He needs even higher lifts in his Cuban heels to get that done.

117 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:02:37am

re: #95 Thanos

Darul Islam is Wahabbi, in India they are the group that issued the "Anti-Terror" Fatwa, however at the time I looked at it with jaundiced eye because the people pimping the fatwa were using it more as a platform to flog the Indian Gov't for terror investigations and Islamophobia. There's also a Darul Islam (alt spellings I've seen: Darool Islam, Dar Ul Islam, etc. ) that was involved in some contretemps in the NE, but I can't remember the details atm.
Their sites which I used to visit were pretty extreme up to a year ago, but since have "cleaned up".

The one involved in the demonsration today is headed by an attorney who defends terrorists.

118 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:02:40am

re: #106 Oh no...Sand People!

Telling when we look to the French for strength, no?

Strength in body odor, perhaps.

119 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:03:11am

re: #115 MandyManners

Are they spewing or are they researching and fact-checking?

If Charles isn't touching it, you can probably bet that they're spewing.

120 The Curmudgeon  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:03:17am

re: #88 Charles

Well, this is what criminal defense lawyers do. It's the basis of the American justice system.

In a case like this, the honorable way to defend the perp is simply to make sure that the prosecution properly proves it case. Even a terrorist (in the US) is entitled to that. But no more.

121 McSpiff  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:04:04am

re: #120 The Curmudgeon

Unless he's innocent.

122 MandyManners  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:04:20am

re: #81 SixDegrees

There have been rumors that the NY police bodged part of the invetigation and triggered Federal intervention earlier than planned. Not sure if this is true.

At any rate, the wrap up may also be due to the proximity of these dates, if authorities started getting nervous about their approach and had hints that a plan was coming together.

Sounds like these groups are heavily infiltrated, too, which is a good thing and the only really effective way to deal with them over the long run.

I scanned a story in the NYT yesterday about some upper-level terrorist cops being reassigned over this.

123 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:05:09am

re: #103 HelloDare

Instead of calling for "Islamic Unity", they should be decrying Islamic terrorists.

There is a group called Former Muslims United who are calling for a “Muslim Pledge for Religious Freedom and Safety from Harm for Former Muslims”.

WASHINGTON, DC (September 23, 2009) – Prominent former Muslims– apostates from Islam– have mailed a groundbreaking Freedom Pledge to over 50 Muslim leaders asking them to repudiate the Islamic law that requires the execution of apostates who have left Islam. The pledge and cover letter have just been released to the public at the website of the new civil rights organization – Former Muslims United - [Link: www.formermuslimsunited.org....]

Former Muslims United will be formally launched at a press conference Thursday, September 24, to announce the start of their national campaign to educate the American public and policymakers about the threat from authoritative Shariah– Islamic law– to the religious freedom and safety of former Muslims. The names and organizational affiliations of the Muslim leaders sent the Freedom Pledge will be released at the press conference and posted online at [Link: www.formermuslimsunited.org....] Additional Muslim leaders will be sent the pledge in the next months as the national campaign gets underway.

124 Mich-again  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:10:22am

re: #122 MandyManners

As I understand it, the NY police let their own informant know about the plot (against the wishes of the FBI) and he then tried to tip off the perps of the investigation.

125 Steve White  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:10:41am

Reminds me of the old Rodney Dangerfield joke about an axe-murderer, where the reporter interviews the neighbors --

"What was he like?"

"He was a quiet man ..."

126 Rexatosis  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:42:00am

I hope the feds are following up on the defendant's conversion to Islam while in prison. If there is a trail back to AQ or radical Islam it probably begins there.

127 funky chicken  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 11:55:36am

re: #66 MandyManners

Organized by the head of Dar-ul-Islam, Hassen Ibn Abdellah.

[Link: dar-ul-islam.org...]

He sounds like a great guy! Perhaps we'll have him over for a pig roast! I bet he'd be a charming guest.

/ahem

128 funky chicken  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 12:00:00pm

re: #92 baier

OT,
About 9-10 mins into last August's, This American Life, is a fascinating story about a survivor of the London bombings that confronts conspiracy theorists who don't believe the bombings even happened. I thought it would interest some people here.

Uh. People are crazy some times.

129 gregb  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 12:01:59pm

re: #22 JohnAdams

Recording:
"Hello, you have reached Dial-a-Bomb. You're under arrest Asshole."

Can you imagine that we're all one mis-dialled number away?

130 gearhead  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 12:10:10pm

Illinois jihadis?! I HATE Illinois jihadis!

/Jake

131 Dad O' Blondes  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 12:22:29pm

Oh my! Yet another bomb plot by wild-eyed jihadis.

Quickly -- we must immediately prosecute the CIA interrogators!

Hurry, there's not a moment to lose!

We must NOT uncover even more plots to bomb and kill thousands of innocent Americans.

Right?

.

132 iceman1960  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 12:27:25pm

I live in Decatur IL and work at the local newspaper here. The feds started watching this guy after he got busted for violation of probabation a couple of years ago and they found letters he was trying to send to John Walker Lindh.
Everybody around here was in shock when the news came out.
It's basically quiet farming communities and pretty rural around here. Just goes to show these nuts can be anywhere.

133 iceman1960  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 12:31:27pm

Finton looks more like one of the local amish than a jihadi.

134 Plato  Fri, Sep 25, 2009 2:15:24pm

Hi guys. Just wanted to visit.

135 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 7:43:20am
136 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:29:10pm

So long. That was your last chance.


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