Do Religious Fanatics Have the Right to Conduct Exorcisms in the Workplace?

Religion • Views: 32,156

What the hell is going on in Texas?

Tonight we have some disturbing news from the University of Texas at Arlington, where three employees are in trouble for staging a bizarre exorcism of a co-worker.

macon.com tries to stay impartial: Religious expression in the workplace can impact others.

In Shatkin v. University of Texas at Arlington, three employees who had personal conflicts with a co-worker agreed to pray together after work. They met outside the co-worker’s office when it was empty.

One member of the prayer vigil rubbed olive oil on the co-employee’s office door and chanted loudly, “I command you demons to leave (the co-worker’s name), you vicious evil dogs get the hell out of there in the name of Jesus, get the hell out of (the co-worker name).”

One of the three employees reported the incident to their supervisor. Following an investigation, the other two employees were terminated because they “displayed conduct unbecoming a UT Arlington staff member, harassment of a fellow co-worker and blatant disregard for the property of UT Arlington.” The terminated employees then requested religious accommodation. Their request was denied. The two ex-employees sued UTA alleging religious discrimination. UTA asked the court to dismiss the claim, arguing the employees did not request religious accommodation prior to engaging in the conduct, and also arguing it had no duty to accommodate harassing conduct aimed at a co-worker. The court declined to dismiss that case, finding that there were issues of fact that needed to be resolved by a jury.

As you can see, it can sometimes be difficult deciding when and how to allow religious expression in the workplace without offending employees and customers who may be offended by the expression.

“Can impact others?”

If I were the target of this strange threatening ritual, I would have pressed charges. Anyone who’s deluded enough to think “demons” influence human behavior — seriously, in the real world — should be considered a possible danger to others. Especially if there are other people sharing the delusion.

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468 comments
1 Mocking Jay  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 6:58:08pm

Creepy beyond words.

2 researchok  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 6:59:02pm

I have a bad feeling as to what we can expect down the road.

All pathologies left untreated, will escalate.

3 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:00:31pm

the power of Perry compels you........the power of Perry compels you...........

4 LRonHoover  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:00:36pm

I command you demons to leave ________, you vicious evil dogs get the hell out of there in the name of Jesus, get the hell out of__________

its kind of like:

When you _____, I feel______

5 sod  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:02:03pm

The defense:

We're being demonized!

6 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:02:48pm

re: #5 sod

The defense:

We're being demonized!

thats the spirit ;-)

7 brookly red  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:03:03pm

I guess if foot baths are OK, exorcisms are OK... personally I would prefer these thing be done on ones lunch break.

8 brookly red  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:03:49pm

re: #4 LRonHoover

I command you demons to leave ___, you vicious evil dogs get the hell out of there in the name of Jesus, get the hell out of___

its kind of like:

When you ___, I feel___

Our IT dept could use someone like you...

9 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:04:47pm

re: #8 brookly red

Our IT dept could use someone like you...

debugging for lay preachers for dummies...............

10 Jadespring  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:05:17pm

Pretty sure I have mentioned this here before.

I had a neighbor one time who that I was in league with demons. While it did have it's amusing qualities overall what she did was pretty creepy. Since it was only her it was rather harmless but if more people had got involved like her church or friends I would have had no problem calling the cops.

11 brookly red  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:06:27pm

re: #9 wozzablog

debugging for lay preachers for dummies...

don't laugh... holy water finally fixed my Zedo issues.

12 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:06:44pm

"religious expression in the workplace"....what a crackpot...you shove a silver cross in my face at work and you'll be headed to the dentist

13 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:07:03pm

Yes, and then some!
"If I were the target of this strange threatening ritual, I would have pressed charges. "

WTH? How is this even possible?

14 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:07:46pm

re: #11 brookly red

don't laugh... holy water finally fixed my Zedo issues.

sometimes you Zedo, sometimes you Zedon't

15 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:07:46pm

Wow. One of my most liberal personal beliefs is about the right to practice our religion. I must admit this crosses the line, and then starts running. Simply on the basis that ones beliefs must not intrude on others. And religion and work are best kept apart.

16 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:10:24pm

re: #13 Floral Giraffe

Yes, and then some!
"If I were the target of this strange threatening ritual, I would have pressed charges. "

WTH? How is this even possible?

not enough details as usual....getting paid to post at LGF is forgiven, performing exorcisms on the company dime is not

17 Mocking Jay  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:10:45pm

On the other hand, this does absolve one of responsibility for their actions.

hmmm...

18 brookly red  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:10:51pm

Well to tell the truth, if I was serving on a jury and someone had pounded a steak through my ex-bosses heart, they would walk.

19 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:12:12pm
“I command you demons to leave (the co-worker’s name), you vicious evil dogs get the hell out of there in the name of Jesus, get the hell out of (the co-worker name).”

I command you superstitious crackpots to leave UTA, you stupid and evil dogs get the hell of there in the name of humanity, get the hell out of a state university.
(Sounds like the administration agreed with me, but a Texas jury may not.)

20 sod  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:12:41pm

re: #15 Rightwingconspirator

Not too long ago, my company made everyone remove any superfluous quotes from their email signatures. The policy applied to all types of quotes but religious quotes were the catalyst.

I welcomed the new policy, not because I was threatened or offended - it's just unprofessional IMO.

21 brookly red  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:13:13pm

re: #19 Shiplord Kirel

I command you superstitious crackpots to leave UTA, you stupid and evil dogs get the hell of there in the name of humanity, get the hell out of a state university.
(Sounds like the administration agreed with me, but a Texas jury may not.)

It only works if you really believe...

22 LRonHoover  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:13:48pm

re: #20 sod

I agree

_________________________

"I command you demons to leave Sod, you vicious evil dogs get the hell out of there in the name of Jesus, get the hell out of Sod"

23 AG in Houston  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:13:48pm

re: #18 brookly red

You mean a stake - not a steak.

Hilarious.

24 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:14:48pm

No Marshmallows! Sweet & Savory Sweet Potato Steak Fries

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me." 1 Corinthians 13:11

25 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:15:18pm

It's harassment. Imagine the kind of shitstorm it would cause if I and a couple coworkers decided to preform a mock satanic ritual in front another coworkers office who happened to be christian. Harassment.

26 jaunte  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:15:42pm

The six people who met early in the morning for Christian prayer at my studio used to pray that the gay employees would be 'cured.'
Then we had a lull in the business, and they're not around anymore.

27 brookly red  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:16:31pm

re: #23 AG in Houston

You mean a stake - not a steak.

Hilarious.

stake, ice pick what ever...they would walk.

28 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:16:53pm

re: #26 jaunte

The six people who met early in the morning for Christian prayer at my studio used to pray that the gay employees would be 'cured.'
Then we had a lull in the business, and they're not around anymore.

'cured' is for hams

29 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:18:18pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

No Marshmallows! Sweet & Savory Sweet Potato Steak Fries

Marshmallows are evil!
//
sorta

30 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:18:42pm

My experience with Texas exorcism

Prepare for War! by Rebecca Brown (Handbook for Protestant fundamentalist, as opposed to Catholic exorcists)

Do you know how Satan can use "doorways" including yoga, role-playing games, and meditation, to bring demonic destruction into your home? In this spiritual warfare manual, Rebecca Brown writes from seven years experience helping deliver many people out of hardcore satanism. In this sequel to her best-selling book He Came to Set the Captives Free, you will learn to stand victoriously against Satan, deal with the dangerous New Age teachings, recognize and deal with satanic ritualistic abuse of children, minister in the area of deliverance, and handle the rarely discussed problems people face after deliverance. Satan hates you and wants to destroy you.
31 Jadespring  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:19:02pm

I wish someone would come over and exorcise this demon from my ear though.

32 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:19:02pm

OT~regarding roller coasters, Ferrari World now has the fastest roller coaster.[Link: sports.yahoo.com...]

33 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:19:26pm

re: #21 brookly red

It only works if you really believe...

Heh.

34 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:19:55pm

re: #21 brookly red

It only works if you really believe...

I believe in binding demons, and I have a college degree.

35 brookly red  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:20:24pm

re: #31 Jadespring

I wish someone would come over and exorcise this demon from my ear though.

stop listing to assholes.

go and sin no more.

36 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:21:17pm

re: #20 sod

I can understand that. At risk of being impersonal of course. What can be fun is the efforts of real personalities finding ways to express a little individuality within the rules if only barely. A challenge to the rouge in us all.

37 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:22:09pm

re: #31 Jadespring

I wish someone would come over and exorcise this demon from my ear though.

Hit shuffle. :)

38 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:22:24pm

Sheesh! They even introduced virgin sacrifice. True, it was only virgin olive oil
THIS TIME but you never know where this kind of thing will lead.

39 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:22:45pm

re: #30 Shiplord Kirel

Sounds like Rebecca reads Jack Chick crapts as if they were factual.

40 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:23:05pm

g'night all.

41 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:23:38pm

re: #29 Floral Giraffe

Marshmallows are evil!
//
sorta

I can't stand those things. Even as a kid I thought they were gross. I'm having a lot of fun in the kitchen experimenting with sweet potatoes these days. They are amazingly versatile.

42 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:24:18pm

re: #31 Jadespring

I wish someone would come over and exorcise this demon from my ear though.

Are you on daily meds for your allergies?

43 LRonHoover  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:24:58pm

re: #34 prairiefire

how do you bind a demon?

44 Jadespring  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:24:59pm

re: #30 Shiplord Kirel

The reviews for that book are quite a trip.

45 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:26:08pm

re: #38 Shiplord Kirel

We had a chicken blood incident where I used to work. Not the same company but the same floor. Some one moved in started a business and a chicken gave its lifeblood (well just a little) onto the front door in the process. Quite the scandal in 1987 or so. A hesitant moment in the melting pot of cultures.

46 brookly red  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:26:13pm

re: #43 LRonHoover

how do you bind a demon?

first you have to really believe

47 Only The Lurker Knows  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:26:51pm

Lizards. I said yesterday I would be back (in the A.M.) But was delayed. I didn't think I would be HALOing into Horrent nest this evening

Now Bugging out.

Jet Pack don't fail me now...................................

L8R.

48 Mocking Jay  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:27:01pm

re: #43 LRonHoover

how do you bind a demon?

You have to buy it a drink first.

49 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:27:42pm

re: #48 JasonA

You have to buy it a drink first.

heh....maybe a line or two

50 sod  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:27:54pm

Just perusing the FreeBSD mailing list, first post I saw was timely:


Why do you use a devil as a mascot?

For me it is nonsense... It makes Christians, Jwishes and Muslins run away!

This has been hashed and rehashed on that list so the first response was perfect:


Not this shit again...

51 jaunte  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:28:02pm

re: #44 Jadespring

The reviews for that book are quite a trip.

I'm chuckling at this one:

This book passed my way via a weekend at a friend's house, and it both amused and horrified me. It IS a good book to read so that you can understand the underpinnings of the sort of Christians who so literally interpret the bible, with no thought to context. I mean, this woman claims that VEGETARIANISM is a Satanic plot because God gave Adam all the animals to eat.

Get thee behind me, sweet potatoes!

52 Mocking Jay  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:28:17pm

re: #49 albusteve

heh...maybe a line or two

I like the way you think.

53 brookly red  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:28:23pm

re: #47 Bubblehead II

Lizards. I said yesterday I would be back (in the A.M.) But was delayed. I didn't think I would be HALOing into Horrent nest this evening

Now Bugging out.

Jet Pack don't fail me now...

L8R.

but the power lines are...

never mind.

54 LRonHoover  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:28:41pm

re: #46 brookly red

from the Movie The Craft:

I bind you _____ from doing harm, harm against other people and harm against yourself

55 Mocking Jay  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:29:16pm

re: #51 jaunte

I'm chuckling at this one:

Get thee behind me, sweet potatoes!

Children have been warning us about the brussel sprouts for ages.

56 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:29:49pm

re: #54 LRonHoover

from the Movie The Craft:

I bind you ___ from doing harm, harm against other people and harm against yourself

Could somebody please use that on Glenn Beck, please?

57 Jadespring  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:30:43pm

re: #42 prairiefire

Are you on daily meds for your allergies?

I don't have allergies.

I have a blocked eustacean(however you spell it) tube from this flu. Feels like the side of my head wants to explode and my ear is soooo ichty. Driving me nuts. It feels like if I just take a pencil and jam it in there it will feel so much better.

I've been to the doc and it's not infected. They just gave me decongestenst and pain killers and said come back in a couple of days if it's not better.

58 sod  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:31:03pm

re: #43 LRonHoover

how do you bind a demon?

BIND is a daemon.

59 brookly red  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:31:30pm

re: #54 LRonHoover

from the Movie The Craft:

I bind you ___ from doing harm, harm against other people and harm against yourself

hmmm would you rather have and order of protection, or a 38. snubby?

60 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:31:42pm

re: #43 LRonHoover

how do you bind a demon?

You say "In the name of Jesus Christ, I bind you Satan." It was a very lucid dream I had once.

61 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:32:16pm

re: #59 brookly red

hmmm would you rather have and order of protection, or a 38. snubby?

38, 39....whatever it takes

62 brookly red  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:32:21pm

re: #56 Dark_Falcon

Could somebody please use that on Glenn Beck, please?

you need to really believe ...

63 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:33:52pm

re: #57 Jadespring

I don't have allergies.

I have a blocked eustacean(however you spell it) tube from this flu. Feels like the side of my head wants to explode and my ear is sooo ichty. Driving me nuts. It feels like if I just take a pencil and jam it in there it will feel so much better.

I've been to the doc and it's not infected. They just gave me decongestenst and pain killers and said come back in a couple of days if it's not better.

I think I've heard you describe that before. If things become chronic, it can be from an allergy.

64 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:35:20pm

re: #16 albusteve

not enough details as usual...getting paid to post at LGF is forgiven, performing exorcisms on the company dime is not

Are YOU getting paid to post?
Hope you are healing....

65 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:35:27pm

re: #56 Dark_Falcon

Could somebody please use that on Glenn Beck, please?

he's just another twit, in a world full of twits

66 LRonHoover  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:35:56pm

re: #60 prairiefire

I've had similar experiences, is that actually binding a real demon, or something more in your own mind, and demon is just a way to think about?

67 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:36:43pm

re: #64 Floral Giraffe

Are YOU getting paid to post?
Hope you are healing...

yes, Charles cuts me a weekly check, and I'm healing fine, sort of....thanks

68 brookly red  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:38:25pm

re: #60 prairiefire

You say "In the name of Jesus Christ, I bind you Satan." It was a very lucid dream I had once.

I have said the same in the voting booth...

69 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:38:29pm

re: #51 jaunte

I'm chuckling at this one:

Get thee behind me, sweet potatoes!

Tofu maybe, but not sweet potatoes.

70 Jadespring  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:39:06pm

re: #63 prairiefire

I think I've heard you describe that before. If things become chronic, it can be from an allergy.

I think that it's more likely that the tube itself is messed up. I've tried taking allergy meds before and it does nothing. I had a problem with them when I was young and had tubes in my ears for several years because they wouldn't drain properly. I thinking now that I'm getting older the problem is coming back and this flu has really set it off.

71 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:41:00pm

re: #66 LRonHoover

I've had similar experiences, is that actually binding a real demon, or something more in your own mind, and demon is just a way to think about?

The thing that is my testimonial is that I think my x was actually considering offing me that night. Weighing the consequences, deliberating. I left him two months later.

72 jaunte  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:41:03pm

re: #69 Shiplord Kirel

Tofu done 'french toast' style is pretty tasty.

73 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:41:39pm

re: #67 albusteve

yes, Charles cuts me a weekly check, and I'm healing fine, sort of...thanks

Kidding or not, I'm glad you're doing better.

74 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:42:39pm

re: #73 Dark_Falcon

Kidding or not, I'm glad you're doing better.

thanks bro

75 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:43:31pm

re: #71 prairiefire

The thing that is my testimonial is that I think my x was actually considering offing me that night. Weighing the consequences, deliberating. I left him two months later.

seek help

76 jerryF  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:45:34pm

I think it's great, I always wanted to travel in time, now I can go on vacation in the middle age.

77 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:45:37pm

re: #75 albusteve

Thanks, I did. This was 17 years ago. Support your local domestic violence shelter, folks!

78 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:46:55pm

Once upon a time, back in the days when there were still independently-owned computer shops, a woman came into my place of employment and eventually managed to become offended by the sales guy in some way. Much to my sorrow, I have never been able to ascertain the details of that part.

I heard lots of yelling, so I emerged from the isolation chamber in which the owner preferred to keep the techie people, in hopes of observing some novel human behavior I could incorporate into my Hitchhiker's Guide entry.

Just as I was asking Mister Sales Guy what all the ruckus was about, the woman came back in the door, yelled "THE BLOOD OF JESUS WILL CURSE YOU!", and stomped back out. She poured some sort of oily substance in a line in front of the door, and performed a sort of wiggly little dance for just long enough so that witnesses to it would wonder if they REALLY saw that, or if the last of their cheese had finally slid off their cracker.

Eventually, the place went out of business, so I guess the curse worked. /

79 LRonHoover  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:47:41pm

re: #71 prairiefire

I'm glad that gave you the strength to leave, but what I'm asking is, do you think that the demon is something external to him, or rather something internal?

80 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:47:47pm

re: #57 Jadespring

Oh I'm sorry... I was just flippant upthread, did not realize you have pain going on there. Bad time for Rock & Roll / Ozzie reference..

81 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:48:33pm

re: #78 negativ

Once upon a time, back in the days when there were still independently-owned computer shops, a woman came into my place of employment and eventually managed to become offended by the sales guy in some way. Much to my sorrow, I have never been able to ascertain the details of that part.

I heard lots of yelling, so I emerged from the isolation chamber in which the owner preferred to keep the techie people, in hopes of observing some novel human behavior I could incorporate into my Hitchhiker's Guide entry.

Just as I was asking Mister Sales Guy what all the ruckus was about, the woman came back in the door, yelled "THE BLOOD OF JESUS WILL CURSE YOU!", and stomped back out. She poured some sort of oily substance in a line in front of the door, and performed a sort of wiggly little dance for just long enough so that witnesses to it would wonder if they REALLY saw that, or if the last of their cheese had finally slid off their cracker.

Eventually, the place went out of business, so I guess the curse worked. /

the blood of Jesus is toxic in larger doses....look around you

82 Jadespring  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:48:42pm

re: #80 Rightwingconspirator

Oh I'm sorry... I was just flippant upthread, did not realize you have pain going on there. Bad time for Rock & Roll / Ozzie reference..

Ah no worries. It made me smile. :)

83 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:49:28pm

re: #79 LRonHoover

I'm glad that gave you the strength to leave, but what I'm asking is, do you think that the demon is something external to him, or rather something internal?

I'm not sure. There is scripture that says through Christ we have "power over spirits of the earth and of the air.'

84 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:51:52pm

Like they say. Leave your politics and religion at home -- once you're at work.

85 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:52:08pm

re: #83 prairiefire

I'm not sure. There is scripture that says through Christ we have "power over spirits of the earth and of the air.'

and Wilbur Wright was a true believer

86 Only The Lurker Knows  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:53:10pm

Bublehead II Out. Night Lizards.

87 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:53:34pm

Anyway, David Bowie, Blue Jean:

88 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:53:49pm

re: #78 negativ

Once upon a time, back in the days when there were still independently-owned computer shops, a woman came into my place of employment and eventually managed to become offended by the sales guy in some way. Much to my sorrow, I have never been able to ascertain the details of that part.

I heard lots of yelling, so I emerged from the isolation chamber in which the owner preferred to keep the techie people, in hopes of observing some novel human behavior I could incorporate into my Hitchhiker's Guide entry.

Just as I was asking Mister Sales Guy what all the ruckus was about, the woman came back in the door, yelled "THE BLOOD OF JESUS WILL CURSE YOU!", and stomped back out. She poured some sort of oily substance in a line in front of the door, and performed a sort of wiggly little dance for just long enough so that witnesses to it would wonder if they REALLY saw that, or if the last of their cheese had finally slid off their cracker.

Eventually, the place went out of business, so I guess the curse worked. /

Was the substance goat's blood?

Click the link for the joke.

89 LRonHoover  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:53:53pm

re: #83 prairiefire

when I think about demons, I think about internal demons, things that are part of my own imperfection, my own weakness, things like that.

90 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:54:07pm

re: #20 sod

Not too long ago, my company made everyone remove any superfluous quotes from their email signatures. The policy applied to all types of quotes but religious quotes were the catalyst.

I welcomed the new policy, not because I was threatened or offended - it's just unprofessional IMO.

OH how I wish my company would do the same. I get daily emails consisting of a 7-word sentence of actual content, suffixed by a 17-line signature consisting of poetry or pithy [mis]quotes from some figure or another.

Additionally, those poor souls who don't know how to force Outlook to render emails in monospace plaintext have to suffer through multicolored script and/or comic sans fonts.

91 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:54:10pm

re: #84 Gus 802

Like they say. Leave your politics and religion at home -- once you're at work.

LOL!
It was "Check your baggage at the door!"
Where I last worked.
Hope all is well with you?

92 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:54:38pm

re: #43 LRonHoover

how do you bind a demon?

First you have to negotiate price, and a safe word.

93 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:55:45pm

re: #89 LRonHoover

when I think about demons, I think about internal demons, things that are part of my own imperfection, my own weakness, things like that.

get over your bad self or you'll be a flogging penetente

94 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:56:53pm

re: #91 Floral Giraffe

LOL!
It was "Check your baggage at the door!"
Where I last worked.
Hope all is well with you?

Or in the case of some folks "check your steamer trunk at the door."

I'm "mumble, mumble, mumble." No calls and no emails for work. The economy is dead here despite what the mayor thinks. It sucks.

How are you doing?

95 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:56:57pm

re: #92 Slumbering Behemoth

Palomino

96 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:57:33pm

re: #92 Slumbering Behemoth

First you have to negotiate price, and a safe word.

Leather or latex?

//

97 Jadespring  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:58:20pm

Well I'm going to go back to my couch. Been lying and sleeping on the thing for days now. It's like a cozy little den now with everything I need close at hand.
Besides this stupid ear thing I'm finally feeling better overall. I may actually be able to do something semi-productive tomorrow.

Take care all.

98 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:59:15pm

demon experts world wide cannot explain this...don't open the link if you are unprepared for the ultimate reality shock, seriously

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

99 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 7:59:57pm

re: #98 albusteve

demon experts world wide cannot explain this...don't open the link if you are unprepared for the ultimate reality shock, seriously

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

whoops....my demon fu sucks....
[Link: www.freakingnews.com...]

100 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:02:36pm

re: #99 albusteve

I think you were right the first time.

101 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:02:42pm

Voodoo. Evangelical voodoo, is what this stuff sounds like to me. Some kind of wacked out santeria or something.

102 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:03:08pm

Ha!


Sympathy...

103 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:03:24pm

re: #89 LRonHoover

when I think about demons, I think about internal demons, things that are part of my own imperfection, my own weakness, things like that.

That's my concept, as well.

This incident, however, was not reserved to a private prayer meeting among the 3 employees who had issues with the 4th employee.

They took it upon themselves to damage the door to the office, and to yell some creepy and frightening things about the 4th employees.

It's ludicrous for an employee to take a personal conflict with another employee, and turn that into an assumption that the other employee must be afflicted with demons. The prayer circle the 3 employees formed should have focused on a reflection of their own issues or lack of patience.

As far as the employees' request for a religious accommodation - the article says the university asked for the request to be denied because the employees failed to request the accommodation before their actions, which seriously misses the boat. I suspect the university would never have approved of such an accommodation if it had been requested - "May I please hold a vigil to cast out the demons from employee X?" - I mean, what sort of response can you give to that?

Someone at the university needs to take a stand and just call this out for the belligerent and frightening behavior it was.

104 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:04:42pm

re: #95 prairiefire

Palomino

Too many syllables. How about "New Coke"?

re: #96 Gus 802

Leather or latex?

//

Both, of course.

Sounds like we've got the fixin's of a great party here. Who's bringing the drugs?

105 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:05:19pm

re: #104 Slumbering Behemoth

Too many syllables. How about "New Coke"?

re: #96 Gus 802

Both, of course.

Sounds like we've got the fixin's of a great party here. Who's bringing the drugs?

Not me. I just have two Advils for later.

106 LRonHoover  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:05:28pm

re: #103 reine.de.tout

ditto

107 lostlakehiker  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:05:39pm
If I were the target of this strange threatening ritual, I would have pressed charges. Anyone who’s deluded enough to think “demons” influence human behavior — seriously, in the real world — should be considered a possible danger to others.

Having been in exactly this situation, named "possessed" and "exorcised", though Christianity had nothing to do with it in my case, I didn't press charges. There was no possibility of winning, no way to prove that all this constituted a threat. Only one person was behind it. In my case, there was more to the threat than the demon stuff, and it extended over a period of time, but still, not enough to meet legal thresholds.

There was no property damage, nor was there any in this case.

The guy discussed in the article wasn't harassed, unless it was in another incident. That is another difference from my situation. He would never have even known about the incident, in the normal course of events.

My view of the situation was that the guy was insane and dangerous and I had jolly well been threatened. But I had no legal recourse and could only hope somehow to muddle through. I put down a paper trail and notified everyone who would need to know who to look for in case it escalated. I took precautions in the way of home defense. Sigh...

It all blew over. After about two years of being kind of creepy.

108 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:05:44pm

re: #103 reine.de.tout

It is assault.

109 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:07:14pm

re: #103 reine.de.tout

Have I told you lately that I love you? No sarc, you're a cool ass heck gal.

110 LRonHoover  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:07:25pm

re: #102 prairiefire

what up with Mick on the huge tower? now I know why Keith refers to him as her majesty

111 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:07:42pm

re: #102 prairiefire

Ha!

Sympathy...

[Video]

where's Mick Taylor when you really need him?

112 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:09:31pm

re: #107 lostlakehiker

Sorry to disagree... It's harassment. Imagine the kind of shitstorm it would cause if I and a couple coworkers decided to preform a mock satanic ritual in front another coworkers office who happened to be christian. Harassment.

113 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:09:33pm

re: #109 Slumbering Behemoth

Have I told you lately that I love you? No sarc, you're a cool ass heck gal.

awwwwwww!
*blush*
Merci beaucoup!

Now . . . I'm figuring I really ought to put away my voodoo dolls, instead of continuing to prep 'em for a curse I want to put on someone . . .
/ JOKING.

114 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:09:47pm

re: #110 LRonHoover

what up with Mick on the huge tower? now I know why Keith refers to him as her majesty

there are 2000 Sympathy vids, they are all different

115 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:11:33pm

re: #113 reine.de.tout

Good thing you don't know what I look like.
:nervous laughter:
Heh, uh, you don't know what I look like, right?

116 Lidane  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:12:13pm
Anyone who’s deluded enough to think “demons” influence human behavior — seriously, in the real world — should be considered a possible danger to others.

Seriously. Believing in demons today is just like believing in phrenology, a flat Earth, or in using bloodletting to balance the humors.

Creepy stuff.

117 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:12:16pm

re: #107 lostlakehiker

Having been in exactly this situation, named "possessed" and "exorcised", though Christianity had nothing to do with it in my case, I didn't press charges. There was no possibility of winning, no way to prove that all this constituted a threat. Only one person was behind it. In my case, there was more to the threat than the demon stuff, and it extended over a period of time, but still, not enough to meet legal thresholds.

There was no property damage, nor was there any in this case.

The guy discussed in the article wasn't harassed, unless it was in another incident. That is another difference from my situation. He would never have even known about the incident, in the normal course of events.

My view of the situation was that the guy was insane and dangerous and I had jolly well been threatened. But I had no legal recourse and could only hope somehow to muddle through. I put down a paper trail and notified everyone who would need to know who to look for in case it escalated. I took precautions in the way of home defense. Sigh...

It all blew over. After about two years of being kind of creepy.

I don't have any particulars about your case, so I don't know what to say about it.

But the person in this article was definitely harassed. Whether it was "illegal" harassment or not is another thing entirely, but the bottom line, it was certainly threatening and belligerent behavior by an employee toward another employee, and most certainly the employer can do something about it.

118 LRonHoover  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:12:53pm

re: #112 Slumbering Behemoth

I bind you Slumbering Behemoth from doing harm, harm against others and harm against yourself

119 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:13:08pm

re: #116 Lidane

Seriously. Believing in demons today is just like believing in phrenology, a flat Earth, or in using bloodletting to balance the humors.

Creepy stuff.

I only believe in demons when I'm watching Night Gallery.

/

120 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:13:25pm

re: #115 Slumbering Behemoth

Good thing you don't know what I look like.
:nervous laughter:
Heh, uh, you don't know what I look like, right?

hehehe. I am the Queen of Everything, I Know All.

besides:
You weren't the object of the curse.
LOL.
Nobody is. I do, however, have small collection of voodoo dolls.

121 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:13:30pm

re: #112 Slumbering Behemoth

Sorry to disagree... It's harassment. Imagine the kind of shitstorm it would cause if I and a couple coworkers decided to preform a mock satanic ritual in front another coworkers office who happened to be christian. Harassment.

Even if it is, the person complaining would bring down more trouble than its worth by going to the police. And the cops wouldn't press charges, for the simple reason that in most places the complaint would be seen as chickenshit.

122 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:15:29pm

re: #119 Gus 802

I only believe in demons when I'm watching Night Gallery.

/

OMG, I loved Night Gallery.
Loved it.
When I was in college, there was one girl lucky enough to have a TV in her room.
We'd all go in that room, sit around with the lights out, watch Night Gallery, scream, etc. - good times!

123 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:16:45pm

re: #118 LRonHoover

I bind you Slumbering Behemoth from doing harm, harm against others and harm against yourself

Hate to burst your bubble, but it didn't work.

124 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:17:07pm

re: #94 Gus 802

Or in the case of some folks "check your steamer trunk at the door."

I'm "mumble, mumble, mumble." No calls and no emails for work. The economy is dead here despite what the mayor thinks. It sucks.

How are you doing?

Best wishes for you!
All is rocking along, here.

125 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:17:38pm

re: #122 reine.de.tout

OMG, I loved Night Gallery.
Loved it.
When I was in college, there was one girl lucky enough to have a TV in her room.
We'd all go in that room, sit around with the lights out, watch Night Gallery, scream, etc. - good times!

Yeah, you have to turn off the lights for that. Remember that one with the shrew pin and the shrew just started growing? I think it was a shrew.

126 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:18:24pm

re: #121 Dark_Falcon

Even if it is, the person complaining would bring down more trouble than its worth by going to the police. And the cops wouldn't press charges, for the simple reason that in most places the complaint would be seen as chickenshit.

DF
Maybe the cops would see the complaint as chickenshit.

But an employer who ignores such behavior by a group of employees toward another emoloyee, isn't the sort of employer I would ever want to work for.

Good grief. Aside from the frightening behavior the one employee was subjected to, you've got a work unit now that's going to be talking about this for DAYS, people will pick sides, nothing will get done - those employees need to be GONE, pronto, otherwise the whole work unit will suffer.

127 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:19:22pm

re: #113 reine.de.tout

awww!
*blush*
Merci beaucoup!

Now . . . I'm figuring I really ought to put away my voodoo dolls, instead of continuing to prep 'em for a curse I want to put on someone . . .
/ JOKING.

LOL!
Can I borrow your Vodoo Dolls?
I might want to curse someone.
Hope you & Le Roi are well!

128 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:19:23pm

re: #125 Gus 802

Yeah, you have to turn off the lights for that. Remember that one with the shrew pin and the shrew just started growing? I think it was a shrew.

Good grief, no, I don't think I can recall a single show. I just recall we had a blast being scared out of our wits once a week.

129 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:19:49pm

re: #127 Floral Giraffe

LOL!
Can I borrow your Vodoo Dolls?
I might want to curse someone.
Hope you & Le Roi are well!

Heh.
I'll send you voodoo doll, if you want one!

130 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:19:50pm

re: #121 Dark_Falcon

Even if it is, the person complaining would bring down more trouble than its worth by going to the police. And the cops wouldn't press charges, for the simple reason that in most places the complaint would be seen as chickenshit.

I'd still file a report to, at the very least, begin to establish a pattern of harassing behavior. Many times dangerous stalking and even murder start with little things like this.

131 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:19:54pm

re: #124 Floral Giraffe

Best wishes for you!
All is rocking along, here.

[Video]

shred baby shred
2 pts

132 LRonHoover  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:20:02pm

re: #124 Floral Giraffe

ha, awesome is that a He-Man character?

133 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:21:56pm

re: #126 reine.de.tout

DF
Maybe the cops would see the complaint as chickenshit.

But an employer who ignores such behavior by a group of employees toward another emoloyee, isn't the sort of employer I would ever want to work for.

Good grief. Aside from the frightening behavior the one employee was subjected to, you've got a work unit now that's going to be talking about this for DAYS, people will pick sides, nothing will get done - those employees need to be GONE, pronto, otherwise the whole work unit will suffer.

units...I am a Unit of One

134 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:22:12pm

re: #127 Floral Giraffe

LOL!
Can I borrow your Vodoo Dolls?
I might want to curse someone.
Hope you & Le Roi are well!

I need a voodoo doll of myself. I'd put him on a little boat and then build a little beach with a chair and a drink with a little umbrella. Then make stacks of little tiny voodoo money.

/

135 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:22:38pm

re: #122 reine.de.tout

Even as a wee lad watching that show, my favorite part was the paintings in the various intro vignettes. I very badly wanted to own every one of them.

136 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:22:41pm

re: #130 Slumbering Behemoth

I'd still file a report to, at the very least, begin to establish a pattern of harassing behavior. Many times dangerous stalking and even murder start with little things like this.

pack....problem solved

137 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:23:05pm

LOL!
Good thing the neighbor lady is deaf!
I'm kinda loud tonight!
Loving this.

138 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:23:09pm

re: #126 reine.de.tout

DF
Maybe the cops would see the complaint as chickenshit.

But an employer who ignores such behavior by a group of employees toward another emoloyee, isn't the sort of employer I would ever want to work for.

Good grief. Aside from the frightening behavior the one employee was subjected to, you've got a work unit now that's going to be talking about this for DAYS, people will pick sides, nothing will get done - those employees need to be GONE, pronto, otherwise the whole work unit will suffer.

Getting rid of them would be a bad idea. Remove them and you'll find yourself with Jesse Waters (one of Bill O'Reilly's producers) and a camera crew following you within days. The word put out will be that you fired them because you didn't like their religion. You'd likely get sued. Far better to use means short of termination.

139 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:23:43pm
140 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:24:36pm

re: #134 Gus 802

I need a voodoo doll of myself. I'd put him on a little boat and then build a little beach with a chair and a drink with a little umbrella. Then make stacks of little tiny voodoo money.

/

What, no little voodoo hooker dolls?

141 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:24:49pm

re: #89 LRonHoover

when I think about demons, I think about internal demons, things that are part of my own imperfection, my own weakness, things like that.

I've not experienced anything like it since then.

142 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:25:16pm

re: #134 Gus 802

I need a voodoo doll of myself. I'd put him on a little boat and then build a little beach with a chair and a drink with a little umbrella. Then make stacks of little tiny voodoo money.

/

You need:
Mo' Money Man

143 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:26:25pm

re: #142 reine.de.tout

You need:
Mo' Money Man

Mo' money. Mo' better.

144 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:26:36pm

re: #139 Gus 802

Night Gallery Paintings by Tom Wright

Oh my gosh, I loved that show.

145 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:26:51pm

re: #122 reine.de.tout

OMG, I loved Night Gallery.
Loved it.
When I was in college, there was one girl lucky enough to have a TV in her room.
We'd all go in that room, sit around with the lights out, watch Night Gallery, scream, etc. - good times!

Rod Serling should be a national treasure. You know who's a national treasure? Lady Gaga. For now, anyway.

146 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:27:11pm

re: #140 Slumbering Behemoth

What, no little voodoo hooker dolls?

You need the Valentina Doll!

Dressed in red & adorned with feathers, she knows how to incite passion and is proud of it! Valentina's unforgettable charm commands attention & attracts admires. Touch her feathers before your big "night on the prowl" so her powers of attraction will rub off on you. Happy hunting! Have fun & be blessed!!
147 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:27:23pm

re: #136 albusteve

pack...problem solved

That happens after establishing an escalating pattern of harassment with the local PD, so you can make a reasonable and believable case for acting in self defense.

/wait, what kind of packing are we talking about?

148 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:28:02pm

re: #145 negativ

Rod Serling should be a national treasure. You know who's a national treasure? Lady Gaga. For now, anyway.

sad, eh?
bwahahaha!

149 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:28:09pm

re: #146 reine.de.tout

Don't touch them, Reine./

150 jaunte  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:28:15pm

Ry Cooder, Nick Lowe, John Hiatt, Jim Keltner
Fool Who Knows

151 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:28:42pm

re: #146 reine.de.tout

You need the Valentina Doll!

All of those can make up a plot for a Night Gallery play. Of course, something would have to go wrong in order to build the plot.

152 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:28:59pm

re: #150 jaunte

Ry Cooder, Nick Lowe, John Hiatt, Jim Keltner
Fool Who Knows

Little Village
2 pts

153 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:28:59pm

re: #138 Dark_Falcon

Getting rid of them would be a bad idea. Remove them and you'll find yourself with Jesse Waters (one of Bill O'Reilly's producers) and a camera crew following you within days. The word put out will be that you fired them because you didn't like their religion. You'd likely get sued. Far better to use means short of termination.

I don't think it's about liking or accepting a religion. It's about practicing a religion in the workplace that's not acceptable and I think that's in pretty much all workplaces.

We're allowed to have religious artifacts at our desk, like a cross on your bulletin board or maybe tape a prayer there, but conducting a religious service is grounds for termination. Isn't that a given?

Evenin all, btw :)

154 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:29:04pm

re: #145 negativ

Rod Serling should be a national treasure. You know who's a national treasure? Lady Gaga. For now, anyway.

Well, she's a talent, no doubt. I think that the gimmick part will wear out in time, but if you keeps producing good music, she may last a while.

155 jaunte  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:29:22pm

re: #146 reine.de.tout

Do they have any voodoo dolls that will slow down time a little?

156 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:30:18pm

any Cooder heads out there?...speak up

157 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:30:56pm

re: #154 Dark_Falcon

She's an original song writer and producer. That's more game than I've got.

158 jaunte  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:31:12pm

re: #156 albusteve

One Cat, One Vote, One Beer

159 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:31:53pm

re: #153 marjoriemoon

I don't think it's about liking or accepting a religion. It's about practicing a religion in the workplace that's not acceptable and I think that's in pretty much all workplaces.

We're allowed to have religious artifacts at our desk, like a cross on your bulletin board or maybe tape a prayer there, but conducting a religious service is grounds for termination. Isn't that a given?

Evenin all, btw :)

I don't think it works that way. Think it only would have applied had they tried to compel their co-worker into worshipping as they do. I'm not defending them, but when your talking about terminations you're talking about legal exposure.

160 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:31:59pm

re: #153 marjoriemoon

I don't think it's about liking or accepting a religion. It's about practicing a religion in the workplace that's not acceptable and I think that's in pretty much all workplaces.

We're allowed to have religious artifacts at our desk, like a cross on your bulletin board or maybe tape a prayer there, but conducting a religious service is grounds for termination. Isn't that a given?

Evenin all, btw :)

It's not even about practicing a religion in the workplace.

It's about engaging in threatening and belligerent behavior toward a fellow employee. That's the whole issue. The behavior had a religious tone to it, but the bottom line is that the behavior was threatening, frightening and bellligerent.

And the university needs to put the religious stuff to the side, and deal with the threatening behavior, no matter if the employees try to characterize it as "religious".

161 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:34:14pm

Paris, Texas:

162 jaunte  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:34:18pm
163 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:34:44pm

re: #146 reine.de.tout

You need the Valentina Doll!

I need one of those too!
LOL!

164 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:35:33pm

re: #7 brookly red

I guess if foot baths are OK, exorcisms are OK... personally I would prefer these thing be done on ones lunch break.

It's kind of hard for me to feel threatened by someone washing their own feet. Rubbing oil on my office door and trying to cast demons out of me...slightly different.

165 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:37:26pm

re: #162 jaunte

Maria Elena

a national treasure....Cooder

166 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:38:18pm

re: #164 SanFranciscoZionist

Do Rabbis now comment on the ancient custom of washing people's feet?

167 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:38:19pm
168 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:39:06pm

re: #155 jaunte

Do they have any voodoo dolls that will slow down time a little?

Not that I know of, but apparently facial hair can stop it.

169 albusteve  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:40:24pm

Hiatt and Landreth

170 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:40:45pm

re: #166 prairiefire

Do Rabbis now comment on the ancient custom of washing people's feet?

Not so much these days...the tradition has carried on much more strongly in Christianity from what I've seen.

171 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:41:18pm

re: #168 Slumbering Behemoth

Not that I know of, but apparently facial hair can stop it.

Beards are great. They collect water, a variety of beverages, food, and they can catch fire if you're not careful.

/

172 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:41:59pm

re: #164 SanFranciscoZionist

Besides, when was the last time someone tried to compel you to wash your feet at the workplace?

173 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:42:26pm

re: #154 Dark_Falcon

Well, she's a talent, no doubt. I think that the gimmick part will wear out in time, but if you keeps producing good music, she may last a while.

No, no she's not a talent. I've tried really hard to find anything "interesting" in her music. All I can see is a triumph of marketing. To me, it sounds like a collection of jump-rope rhymes accompanied by someone who just got their first Casio keyboard.

174 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:43:33pm

re: #172 Slumbering Behemoth

Besides, when was the last time someone tried to compel you to wash your feet at the workplace?

I mean, aside from anyone working in the pr0n industry?

175 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:43:36pm

re: #155 jaunte

Do they have any voodoo dolls that will slow down time a little?

Hm.
Depends on why you need time slowed down.

Maybe Ellegua Papa Legba, guardian of the crossroads of life.

re: #163 Floral Giraffe

I need one of those too!
LOL!

You need the Animal Passion doll!

176 jaunte  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:43:43pm

re: #171 Gus 802

Facial hair works great as a sort of curb feeler for beer containers. You don't know you're using it like that until you shave it off, and then dump a beer down the front of your face.

177 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:44:26pm

re: #171 Gus 802

Beards are great. They collect water, a variety of beverages, food, and they can catch fire if you're not careful.

/

Also good for raising baby birds.

178 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:45:14pm

re: #176 jaunte

Facial hair works great as a sort of curb feeler for beer containers. You don't know you're using it like that until you shave it off, and then dump a beer down the front of your face.

Is this the voice of experience we're hearing?

Cats use their whiskers to feel their way around. Are you a cat?

179 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:45:21pm

re: #160 reine.de.tout

It's not even about practicing a religion in the workplace.

It's about engaging in threatening and belligerent behavior toward a fellow employee. That's the whole issue. The behavior had a religious tone to it, but the bottom line is that the behavior was threatening, frightening and bellligerent.

And the university needs to put the religious stuff to the side, and deal with the threatening behavior, no matter if the employees try to characterize it as "religious".

It is harassment for sure, but I think the religious aspect is what made the one complain about it. It's an odd story. One of three people who were part of the "exorcism" complained about the other two? Was the co-worker in the office at the time? Did he/she complain?

180 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:45:29pm

re: #170 SanFranciscoZionist

Not so much these days...the tradition has carried on much more strongly in Christianity from what I've seen.

"In the spirit of discipleship", I'm guessing. I appreciate the established Protestant church hierarchy as I think it curtails many crazy excesses as described in the start of the thread.

181 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:45:48pm

re: #172 Slumbering Behemoth

Besides, when was the last time someone tried to compel you to wash your feet at the workplace?

Not since the 80s.

182 jaunte  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:46:01pm

re: #175 reine.de.tout

Ellegua Papa Legba: His favorite foods are corn, candy, and rum.


He could be a midwestern Senator.

183 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:46:03pm

re: #178 reine.de.tout

Is this the voice of experience we're hearing?

Cats use their whiskers to feel their way around. Are you a cat?

Beer cat.

/

184 jaunte  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:46:29pm

re: #178 reine.de.tout

Is this the voice of experience we're hearing?

Cats use their whiskers to feel their way around. Are you a cat?

It is, and I am.

185 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:46:30pm

re: #172 Slumbering Behemoth

Besides, when was the last time someone tried to compel you to wash your feet at the workplace?

No one has ever tried to compel me to wash my feet at work. I like to think that this is a tribute to my general good foot hygiene.

186 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:46:40pm

re: #176 jaunte

Facial hair works great as a sort of curb feeler for beer containers. You don't know you're using it like that until you shave it off, and then dump a beer down the front of your face.

I'm choking I'm laughing so hard.

187 Digital Display  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:47:20pm

Good Evening Lizards...I'm selling my 3 pep boys bobble head voodoo dolls on Ebay...They will mess your car up...

188 Killgore Trout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:47:21pm

It's not the flight but the landing that counts....
French launch bid to rewrite history books with claim that Lindbergh was NOT first to fly across the Atlantic


Charles Lindbergh is renowned as the first person to fly across the Atlantic, but according to new research, he was beaten to the achievement ten days earlier.

According to French aviation enthusiast Bernard Decré, Lindbergh was only the first to complete the crossing and survive, with two French pilots believed to have reached the coast of Canada ten days before Lindbergh's Spirit of St Louis touched down in Paris in May 1927.

New documentary evidence found in the U.S. national archives may prove that Charles Nungesser and Francois Coli completed a transatlantic crossing and were the first men to do so, though they were likely killed in the process.

Would anyone really claim it an achievement to land a corpse on the moon? Damn French revisionists.

189 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:48:21pm

re: #92 Slumbering Behemoth

First you have to negotiate price, and a safe word.

LOL!

190 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:48:26pm

re: #181 marjoriemoon

Not since the 80s.

Bow-chicka bow-wow!

re: #185 SanFranciscoZionist

Ah, tell me more.
/

191 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:48:35pm

re: #187 HoosierHoops

Good Evening Lizards...I'm selling my 3 pep boys bobble head voodoo dolls on Ebay...They will mess your car up...

Try to trade them in for Snow Globes. Mr House pays a shit-load of caps for those.

192 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:48:36pm

re: #188 Killgore Trout

It's not the flight but the landing that counts...
French launch bid to rewrite history books with claim that Lindbergh was NOT first to fly across the Atlantic

Would anyone really claim it an achievement to land a corpse on the moon? Damn French revisionists.

Mmmm. Too late.

193 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:49:58pm

re: #179 marjoriemoon

It is harassment for sure, but I think the religious aspect is what made the one complain about it. It's an odd story. One of three people who were part of the "exorcism" complained about the other two? Was the co-worker in the office at the time? Did he/she complain?

MM -
I suspect it's very likely the complainer would have complained about any such behavior, religious in nature or not. I suspect what disturbed her most was the threatening way this one employee treated the other one, not that it was a "religious" action. The complainer was one of the ones in the "prayer circle" group IIRC.

194 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:52:04pm

re: #187 HoosierHoops

Hello, you!
Hope you are doing well?
Flea Bay?
I'm going for some $ this week too!
LOL!
Junk for cash, I'm in!

195 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:52:29pm

re: #30 Shiplord Kirel

My experience with Texas exorcism

Prepare for War! by Rebecca Brown (Handbook for Protestant fundamentalist, as opposed to Catholic exorcists)

Texorcism!

196 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:53:23pm

re: #188 Killgore Trout

It's not the flight but the landing that counts...
French launch bid to rewrite history books with claim that Lindbergh was NOT first to fly across the Atlantic

Would anyone really claim it an achievement to land a corpse on the moon? Damn French revisionists.

Bear in mind that the source is the Daily FAIL.

197 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:53:32pm

re: #194 Floral Giraffe

Hello, you!
Hope you are doing well?
Flea Bay?
I'm going for some $ this week too!
LOL!
Junk for cash, I'm in!

Do you have any Chinese vases?

/

198 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:53:33pm

Seriously though, how would any of you feel if three coworkers at your job decided that whatever work tension may exist there required them to preform a voodoo ritual over your office to rectify it?

What if it were chicken blood rather than oil rubbed on your door? Still no real physical or property damage, but what if?

199 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:54:36pm

re: #197 Gus 802

Do you have any Chinese vases?

/

I saw that story!
I just looked through all my "stuff".
However, when I was collecting Asian, it appears I went for Japan or Occupied Japan, not Chinese. Phooey.

200 jaunte  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:54:56pm

Mark Knopfler & Sonny Landreth
Cannibals

201 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:55:31pm

re: #199 reine.de.tout

I saw that story!
I just looked through all my "stuff".
However, when I was collecting Asian, it appears I went for Japan or Occupied Japan, not Chinese. Phooey.

Could you imagine having something like that vase? 69 million smackers. Whew.

202 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:56:19pm

re: #198 Slumbering Behemoth

Seriously though, how would any of you feel if three coworkers at your job decided that whatever work tension may exist there required them to preform a voodoo ritual over your office to rectify it?

What if it were chicken blood rather than oil rubbed on your door? Still no real physical or property damage, but what if?

IMO - from 30 years experience in the field of Human Resources - what this comes down to has nothing to do with the "religious" aspect of it. It has everything to do with the belligerent and threatening behavior, which leads to all sorts of morale & productivity problems within the workplace if not dealt with.

203 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:57:00pm

re: #201 Gus 802

Could you imagine having something like that vase? 69 million smackers. Whew.

Amazing.

204 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:57:58pm

Trolling a Mormon. Trolled by a Mormon. The circle of net life is complete.

205 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:58:43pm

re: #202 reine.de.tout

IMO - from 30 years experience in the field of Human Resources - what this comes down to has nothing to do with the "religious" aspect of it. It has everything to do with the belligerent and threatening behavior, which leads to all sorts of morale & productivity problems within the workplace if not dealt with.

Let me clarify a bit -
the above is what the employer needs to be concerned about, and dealing with.

The employees may try to turn it into a "religious accommodation" issue, but it's nothing of the sort. The employees used this particular method to act in a threatening and frightening way toward another employee. But the issue the employer needs to be dealing with is the negative effect of the behavior, not whether it was religious or not.

206 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 8:59:22pm

re: #187 HoosierHoops

Good Evening Lizards...I'm selling my 3 pep boys bobble head voodoo dolls on Ebay...They will mess your car up...

I thought about you last night! Nova (PBS) had a wonderful show called "Dogs Decoded" and how they've been doing a lot more research on Wo/Man's best friend. Terrific show if you can catch it or you can buy it.

[Link: www.pbs.org...]

One amazing thing. When we show emotion on our faces, (happiness, sadness, surprise, whatever) the left side of our faces are more expressive than the right. So much so that we subconsciously look at a person's left side of the face when we speak to each other. Dogs, apparently, have come to recognize this and are the only other species that looks at the left side of a human face when engaging with them.

Other really neat stuff on how domesticating the dog also made it evolve on its own. I was thinking of doing a Page on this actually.

207 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:01:19pm

re: #202 reine.de.tout

You're on target 100%. If those involved really were concerned, they would have taken the other out to lunch or something, and given that person a "Come to Jesus" speech in their private time.

What they did instead is antagonistic and unproductive.

208 Digital Display  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:01:29pm

re: #194 Floral Giraffe

Hello, you!
Hope you are doing well?
Flea Bay?
I'm going for some $ this week too!
LOL!
Junk for cash, I'm in!

Hi You! It's game day at OU Saturday..I have to go to work in the morning so I thought I'd put chicken blood on my doorway just in case...hehehe

209 lostlakehiker  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:01:45pm

re: #112 Slumbering Behemoth

Sorry to disagree... It's harassment. Imagine the kind of shitstorm it would cause if I and a couple coworkers decided to preform a mock satanic ritual in front another coworkers office who happened to be christian. Harassment.

The key to harassment, as I see it, is intent to mess with the target's head.

If the target in this case had been at his office, then yes, that would have constituted an incident. If a video of it had been taken and communicated to him. If some physical token of the ritual, sufficient to communicate to the target, had been left on his door.

Maybe the dab of olive oil, in context, is that physical token. I'm not a lawyer. We'll see how the case unfolds. I'm loath to advocate stretching laws so that outrageous conduct which doesn't quite fit the letter of the law runs into legal consequences anyhow. As I saw, the laws don't stretch an inch in some situations. So if they sometimes do stretch, and sometimes don't, who can say what conduct is legally punishable and what is not? And doesn't it then really boil down to who gets a pass, and who doesn't?

On the other hand, I have no problem at all with the courts declining to stretch the law on religious freedom to cover the conduct reported in this article. The two can be fired because the employer no longer desires their services. The employer has good reason to doubt the soundness of their judgment and their commitment to working as members of a team.

210 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:02:25pm

re: #205 reine.de.tout

Let me clarify a bit -
the above is what the employer needs to be concerned about, and dealing with.

The employees may try to turn it into a "religious accommodation" issue, but it's nothing of the sort. The employees used this particular method to act in a threatening and frightening way toward another employee. But the issue the employer needs to be dealing with is the negative effect of the behavior, not whether it was religious or not.

Agreed. But I think writing them up would be a better idea. Do punish them, but don't can them. The lesser punishment will keep them from being able to blow this thing into something bigger and come after you.

211 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:04:38pm

re: #196 Dark_Falcon

Bear in mind that the source is the Daily FAIL.

If the CG found wreckage of a white aircraft 200 miles offshore how would that count as a successful crossing? Like was mentioned above, you have to complete the crossing then land on solid ground. If Lindbergh crashed 200 miles offshore that wouldn't have been counted as a successful crossing either. Plus, the only thing they have is a CG report indicating the finding of wreckage in 1927. 200 miles offshore ain't gonna cut it.

212 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:04:57pm

re: #210 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. But I think writing them up would be a better idea. Do punish them, but don't can them. The lesser punishment will keep them from being able to blow this thing into something bigger and come after you.

Do you think the co-workers might have been participating in the harassment?

213 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:05:26pm

re: #193 reine.de.tout

MM -
I suspect it's very likely the complainer would have complained about any such behavior, religious in nature or not. I suspect what disturbed her most was the threatening way this one employee treated the other one, not that it was a "religious" action. The complainer was one of the ones in the "prayer circle" group IIRC.

Right. The complainer was one in the prayer circle and didn't seem to have a problem with praying for the other person? I'm guessing she or he didn't expect an exorcism (no one expects an exorcism...) and complained about it.

At first, I thought that third person was the one who was being harassed, but it looks like it was another person altogether, but that person didn't complain? Was the person even there? It just seems bizarre. I would understand it better if the harassEE was the complainer.

They wouldn't be arguing about freedom of religious expression if it had nothing to do with religion tho.

214 RadicalModerate  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:06:08pm

This exorcism at UT Arlington actually took place in 2006.

Answering the question on the individuals have the right to do so, in July of this year a Texas federal district court says "yes".

Court rules that UT-Arlington employees had right to bless cubicle

The law protecting religious freedom at the workplace apparently includes the right to bless your co-worker's cubicle, according to a recent ruling by a Texas federal district court.

The court held that two former employees of the University of Texas at Arlington were wrongly fired for praying over their workspace in the school's development office, reported the blog Religion Clause, and they didn't have to ask for an accommodation before doing so. Their religious ceremony, held after-hours, falls under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act.
[...]
In the case of Linda Shifflett and Evelyne Shatkin at UT-Arlington, they wanted to relieve some tension with a "demonically oppressed" co-worker by blessing her empty cubicle while she was on vacation back in 2006. They prayed for her, read from the Bible and anointed her door frame with olive oil, trying to rid the office of evil in the name of Jesus Christ.

When UT-Arlington found out about the office-blessing, they weren't happy. That oil is damaging university property! Plus, that's harassment of your un-knowing, vacationing co-worker! They were fired.

Then, Shifflett and Shatkin filed a religious discrimination suit against the university through Plano-based Liberty Institute, a group that advocates for First Amendment freedoms and traditional family values.

The Liberty Institute for those of you who don't know, is one of the legal groups associated with James Dobson's "Family Research Council", and gained a small bit of notoriety in their unsuccessful bid to have religiously-themed candy canes distributed to all students in Plano, Texas' school district, as well as attempting to make the National Day of Prayer a Christian-only event.

[Link: www.dallasnews.com...]

215 lostlakehiker  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:06:09pm

re: #210 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. But I think writing them up would be a better idea. Do punish them, but don't can them. The lesser punishment will keep them from being able to blow this thing into something bigger and come after you.


Sorry, but at this point there's enough bad blood that it's best to utterly sever connections between the target and the perps. What one desires above all in this kind of situation is that the person/persons responsible go away. Far away.

Having them still around is creepy. Honest.

216 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:06:28pm

re: #208 HoosierHoops

Hi You! It's game day at OU Saturday..I have to go to work in the morning so I thought I'd put chicken blood on my doorway just in case...hehehe

I hope you get some down time soon!
*smooch*

217 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:07:31pm

re: #214 RadicalModerate

It all comes a bit too close to religious hysteria for me.

218 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:07:55pm

re: #209 lostlakehiker

Disagree. Just because the kooks currently lack the courage to engage in such depravity right in the face of their target does not change it's intent or potential effect.

219 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:10:05pm

re: #59 brookly red

hmmm would you rather have and order of protection, or a 38. snubby?

Snubby hell, I want at least a 4" barrel. It's still easy to carry and gives a huge improvement in velocity/muzzle energy and sight radius.

No slash. If someone is going to carry for self defense, then they really should want a minimum of a 4" barrel length for a revolver in .38 Special.

220 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:10:07pm

re: #207 Slumbering Behemoth

You're on target 100%. If those involved really were concerned, they would have taken the other out to lunch or something, and given that person a "Come to Jesus" speech in their private time.

What they did instead is antagonistic and unproductive.

Exactly.
And the employer should be very concerned about employees who engage in that sort of behavior.

221 prairiefire  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:10:47pm

So the Newsweek and Tina Brown merger will happen:[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

222 blueraven  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:11:35pm

re: #165 albusteve

a national treasure...Cooder

And Flaco...dont forget Flaco!

223 Digital Display  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:11:45pm

re: #216 Floral Giraffe

I hope you get some down time soon!
*smooch*

I got off work..Fell asleep on the couch only to wake up with Winston licking my face..I chased him around but he is too fast for me..He keeps peeking around the corner...I'm so going to get him when he falls asleep!

224 lostlakehiker  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:14:02pm

re: #138 Dark_Falcon

Getting rid of them would be a bad idea. Remove them and you'll find yourself with Jesse Waters (one of Bill O'Reilly's producers) and a camera crew following you within days. The word put out will be that you fired them because you didn't like their religion. You'd likely get sued. Far better to use means short of termination.

Sorry, but you have it backwards. Bring on the camera crews. There's nothing to see. Buh bye.

225 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:15:27pm

re: #210 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. But I think writing them up would be a better idea. Do punish them, but don't can them. The lesser punishment will keep them from being able to blow this thing into something bigger and come after you.

No, it won't, DF.
And I say this, again as a person who spent 30 years working in HR.

Going easy on a person in this sort of egregious situation - it always comes back to haunt an employer.

The person himself doesn't appreciate that he was written up and not fired, because he feels so very sure that his behavior was justified!

I'm not mean and I have all sorts of sympathy for people who break a rule and get into a little bit of trouble at work.

But this sort of antagonism isn't a small problem. It's a big one. And this employee needs to go.


re: #213 marjoriemoon

Right. The complainer was one in the prayer circle and didn't seem to have a problem with praying for the other person? I'm guessing she or he didn't expect an exorcism (no one expects an exorcism...) and complained about it.

At first, I thought that third person was the one who was being harassed, but it looks like it was another person altogether, but that person didn't complain? Was the person even there? It just seems bizarre. I would understand it better if the harassEE was the complainer.

They wouldn't be arguing about freedom of religious expression if it had nothing to do with religion tho.

The employee is arguing it's about freedom of religious expression. But from an employer's perspective, it has nothing to do with the employees praying which apparently was allowed. From an employer's perspective in dealing with this situation, it has everything to do with the behavior being unacceptably belligerent.

226 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:17:44pm

Anyway. Alcock and Brown were the first to make a transatlantic flight:

British aviators Alcock and Brown made the first non-stop transatlantic flight in June 1919. They flew a modified World War I Vickers Vimy bomber from St. John's, Newfoundland to Clifden, Ireland. Winston Churchill presented them with the Daily Mail prize for the first crossing of the Atlantic Ocean in "less than 72 consecutive hours" and they were knighted by King George V.

This was well before Lindbergh. Lindbergh's record was for the first SOLO crossing. Charles Nungesser and François Coli obviously wouldn't count as a solo crossing. Alcock and Brown had already made the crossing in 1919. The findings regarding Charles Nungesser and François Coli is irrelevant with regards to a first crossing.

227 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:17:56pm

re: #223 HoosierHoops

I got off work..Fell asleep on the couch only to wake up with Winston licking my face..I chased him around but he is too fast for me..He keeps peeking around the corner...I'm so going to get him when he falls asleep!

Go back to sleep!
Sleep well.
G'Night all.
Be well, sleep tight.And long, and well.
It's good for you!
(Me too, but, that's another story!)

228 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:18:13pm

re: #210 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. But I think writing them up would be a better idea. Do punish them, but don't can them. The lesser punishment will keep them from being able to blow this thing into something bigger and come after you.

Hypothetically speaking let us suppose that three muslim coworkers performed an islamic exorcism on your personal workspace, would you feel comfortable and safe continuing to work with them?

229 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:18:20pm

re: #210 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. But I think writing them up would be a better idea. Do punish them, but don't can them. The lesser punishment will keep them from being able to blow this thing into something bigger and come after you.

I think it depends on what it is. If someone is constantly preaching their religion or trying to convert others, a good talking to by the manager or H.R. should be enough. Holding a "religious" service is quite another thing.

Exorcising a door should definitely be grounds for termination... or the loony bin, one of the two.

230 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:20:36pm

re: #214 RadicalModerate

lawd a'mercy!
The Liberty Institute must have had some really good attorneys working for them, or the university had some really poor ones.

The university made a mistake when they responded to the employee's claims they needed a "religious accommodation" - the university apparently responded by saying they didn't make the request prior to the action, which sort of implies they would have approved it if the employees had done so. I suspect they would NOT have approved it.

The university should have addressed this as a workplace behavior issue, which is what it was. Good grief. They need to hire me to get 'em straightened out. LOL.

231 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:20:44pm

re: #214 RadicalModerate

Wow. I'm dumbfounded. That's outrageous.

232 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:21:28pm

re: #231 marjoriemoon

Wow. I'm dumbfounded. That's outrageous.

Agreed.

233 lostlakehiker  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:23:48pm

re: #218 Slumbering Behemoth

Disagree. Just because the kooks currently lack the courage to engage in such depravity right in the face of their target does not change it's intent or potential effect.

Difficult to establish intent. How do we know they intended the target to know about it? If they had kept silence, would there have been any effect?

That depends on the physical details of what happened. If the oil left an unmissable scent, perhaps. If it left no real trace, then what?

I can see firing the two. They showed bad judgment. They interfered with workplace morale, directly through their effect on the third of the three, who presumably didn't realize how the incident would play out. Indirectly, because word got out, the incident also affected the target of the exorcism. I like laws construed narrowly, and by a narrow construction, they weren't exercising any freedom of religion.


But I don't see property damage, I don't see an explicit threat. I don't see intent to mess with the head of the target, except perhaps an intent that could only take effect through supernatural means. It's not illegal to pray that the boss gets a headache, is it?

Such prayers are beyond the reach of the law. If they are without effect, they are harmless. If they work, something I hold improbable beyond all description, what authority might the law wield that could hold a candle to the authority the prayer-maker has access to?

234 lostlakehiker  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:26:21pm

re: #228 goddamnedfrank

Hypothetically speaking let us suppose that three muslim coworkers performed an islamic exorcism on your personal workspace, would you feel comfortable and safe continuing to work with them?

I would feel uncomfortable, but I would know from past experience with a more serious situation, not involving Islam OR Christianity, that any complaint I might have would fall on deaf ears.

235 RadicalModerate  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:29:13pm

re: #230 reine.de.tout

lawd a'mercy!
The Liberty Institute must have had some really good attorneys working for them, or the university had some really poor ones.

The university should have addressed this as a workplace behavior issue, which is what it was. Good grief. They need to hire me to get 'em straightened out. LOL.

The Liberty Institute is currently the primary legal arm of James Dobson's "Focus on the Family" organization. They have VERY DEEP pockets. They also have a habit of exacting exorbitant legal fees from individuals who they represent. They specialize in suing groups to permit in-your-face evangelization, even to individuals/organizations who specifically prohibit it.

236 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:29:20pm

re: #226 Gus 802

Anyway. Alcock and Brown were the first to make a transatlantic flight:

This was well before Lindbergh. Lindbergh's record was for the first SOLO crossing. Charles Nungesser and François Coli obviously wouldn't count as a solo crossing. Alcock and Brown had already made the crossing in 1919. The findings regarding Charles Nungesser and François Coli is irrelevant with regards to a first crossing.

A little more info.

Alcock and Brown was for First non-stop transatlantic flight.

Lingbergh was for First solo transatlantic flight and first non-stop fixed-wing aircraft flight between America and mainland Europe.

Furthermore, aviation records are pretty strict. Turning Charles Nungesser and François Coli in a record based on a "Ghost Hunters" type of investigation and also based on "maybes" and "probablys" still won't cut it.

237 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:32:23pm

re: #228 goddamnedfrank

Hypothetically speaking let us suppose that three muslim coworkers performed an islamic exorcism on your personal workspace, would you feel comfortable and safe continuing to work with them?

Ohh snap!

I'm guessing there's not a lot of Jews, Muslims or Buddhists in this office.

238 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:32:38pm

re: #229 marjoriemoon

Exorcising a door should definitely be grounds for termination... or the loony bin, one of the two.

Or at the very least, a "WTF were you dummies thinking? Do you realize what kind of unnecessary litigation you could bring on this company by engaging in this nonsensical crap"?

239 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:33:17pm

re: #238 Slumbering Behemoth

Or at the very least, a "WTF were you dummies thinking? Do you realize what kind of unnecessary litigation you could bring on this company by engaging in this nonsensical crap"?

Can you even exorcise a door or a chair?

240 blueraven  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:33:26pm

re: #222 blueraven

And Flaco...dont forget Flaco!

Heres one for you albusteve

[Link: www.guitarsolos.com...]

Rolling Stones with Flaco

Goodnight all.

241 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:37:38pm

re: #228 goddamnedfrank

Hypothetically speaking let us suppose that three muslim coworkers performed an islamic exorcism on your personal workspace, would you feel comfortable and safe continuing to work with them?

That wasn't my point. I was trying to find a middle ground which didn't have the potential to blow up into some ugly "Outrageous Outrage!!1". If there is no such way, then these yahoos have to go. Their actions were indefensible. My concern was for the office, not for them.

If what you suggest happened to me, I'd give the people in question what they wanted and not strongly disagree with them again. I can't afford an office dogfight.

242 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:39:24pm

Oh brother.

CNN's Larry King talks to Michael Moore about who would be a good candidate to challenge President Obama.

By run he means running a candidate like Tom Hanks, George Clooney, etc. Before that he brings up Reagan, Thompson, Bono. He forgot something. Ideology aside Ronald Reagan was a union president and governor before he ran for president.

243 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:39:38pm

re: #239 marjoriemoon

Can you even exorcise a door or a chair?

The family who bought my old house performed an exorcism on it due the divorce ... the bank foreclosed on them a few years later.

244 RadicalModerate  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:40:38pm

re: #239 marjoriemoon

Can you even exorcise a door or a chair?

The Dallas area has some certifiable nutcases when it comes to our evangelists and their followers - one of the more famous was Robert Tilton, who, before he skipped town with a few million dollars from his ministries' coffers, had a Sunday-morning show where he played with snakes and spoke in tongues between his pleas for donations.
I had the unfortunate honor of having one of these guys come to my aid when I had a flat tire a few years back. When I say "come to my aid", I really mean that he took it upon himself to pray to exorcise the demons from my wheel. Didn't lift a finger to help change the tire though.

245 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:41:00pm

I don't really understand why this is going to jury trial, but it sure would be fun to be on that jury.

Title VII also requires you to accommodate an employee’s exercise of religious expression in the workplace to the extent that he or she can do so without undue hardship on the operation of the business. Accommodations may include allowing employees to pray, participate in Christmas celebrations and have religious objects on their desks. In determining whether a religiously oriented expression poses an undue hardship, relevant considerations may include the effect such expression has on co-workers, customers and business operations.

"Undue hardship" seems to be the legal keyword here. The heart of this law is the first bit. Not being fired for wearing a cross, a headscarf or taking off on Yom Kippur. That's the intent of it. Anything beyond can considered undue hardship, but I guess this judge felt different.

246 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:42:12pm

re: #238 Slumbering Behemoth

Or at the very least, a "WTF were you dummies thinking? Do you realize what kind of unnecessary litigation you could bring on this company by engaging in this nonsensical crap"?

Consider starting the Church of the Canine. Then proceed to retaliate by peeing on the "exorcists" doors and claim religious freedom.

//

247 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:42:23pm

re: #244 RadicalModerate

The Dallas area has some certifiable nutcases when it comes to our evangelists and their followers - one of the more famous was Robert Tilton, who, before he skipped town with a few million dollars from his ministries' coffers, had a Sunday-morning show where he played with snakes and spoke in tongues between his pleas for donations.
I had the unfortunate honor of having one of these guys come to my aid when I had a flat tire a few years back. When I say "come to my aid", I really mean that he took it upon himself to pray to exorcise the demons from my wheel. Didn't lift a finger to help change the tire though.

A video of that would have gone viral on youtube in about 30 seconds.

248 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:43:51pm

re: #246 Gus 802

Consider starting the Church of the Canine. Then proceed to retaliate by peeing on the "exorcists" doors and claim religious freedom.

//

The Holy Spray.

249 DaddyLawBucks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:44:07pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

Marshmallows belong on top of baked sweet potatoes.......

250 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:49:33pm

re: #249 daddylawbucks

Marshmallows belong on top of baked sweet potatoes...

My marshmallows belong in between two pieces of graham cracker with some chocolate.

Do will yours as you will.

251 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:50:13pm

re: #241 Dark_Falcon

That wasn't my point. I was trying to find a middle ground which didn't have the potential to blow up into some ugly "Outrageous Outrage!!1". If there is no such way, then these yahoos have to go. Their actions were indefensible. My concern was for the office, not for them.

If what you suggest happened to me, I'd give the people in question what they wanted and not strongly disagree with them again. I can't afford an office dogfight.

That's the key to harassment, isn't it. Intimidate someone to drive them off. Especially those who are new or maybe not popular. It happens all the time and bad office managers do nothing about it.

252 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:51:05pm

re: #251 marjoriemoon

That's the key to harassment, isn't it. Intimidate someone to drive them off. Especially those who are new or maybe not popular. It happens all the time and bad office managers do nothing about it.

When you consider that they were basically saying: Your personality is so bad we can only explain it by believing that demons have taken over.

That's pretty harsh.

253 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:51:37pm

re: #233 lostlakehiker

Bottom line, this is not appropriate behavior, especially in the work place.

Such prayers are beyond the reach of the law. If they are without effect, they are harmless. If they work, something I hold improbable beyond all description, what authority might the law wield that could hold a candle to the authority the prayer-maker has access to?

This was no simple prayer. This was a kook ritual akin to voodoo or santeria. I figure any Christian worth their salt believes that they can pray silently, in private, and with faith their prayers will be heard.

What happened seems more like a black magic ritual.

254 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:54:33pm

re: #253 Slumbering Behemoth

Bottom line, this is not appropriate behavior, especially in the work place.

This was no simple prayer. This was a kook ritual akin to voodoo or santeria. I figure any Christian worth their salt believes that they can pray silently, in private, and with faith their prayers will be heard.

What happened seems more like a black magic ritual.


I agree.
I will also say - this Christian, anyhow, prays for the gift of personal patience with others, rather than praying for others to somehow be different than what they are, which seems to me to be a bit pointless.

255 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:55:10pm

re: #241 Dark_Falcon

If what you suggest happened to me, I'd give the people in question what they wanted and not strongly disagree with them again. I can't afford an office dogfight.

In other words no, you wouldn't feel comfortable or safe in that situation, you'd feel quite appropriately afraid.

That was the intent here, to cause fear.

This is why they had to go, because in fact it is better to be respected than feared, and any organization that kowtows to fear mongering bullies quickly learns that acquiescence only brings more of the same.

256 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:55:16pm

re: #249 daddylawbucks

No.

257 reine.de.tout  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 9:57:08pm

re: #245 marjoriemoon

I don't really understand why this is going to jury trial, but it sure would be fun to be on that jury.

"Undue hardship" seems to be the legal keyword here. The heart of this law is the first bit. Not being fired for wearing a cross, a headscarf or taking off on Yom Kippur. That's the intent of it. Anything beyond can considered undue hardship, but I guess this judge felt different.

I think the university fell down on the job when trying to defend their position on this. They truly should have focused on the behavior and its negative effects, rather than the religious tone of it and it looks to me like their very first response had to do with the religious tone. Their primary and strongest responses should have focused on the behaviors that had detrimental effect.

258 DaddyLawBucks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:00:17pm

re: #250 EmmmieG

Hay! I wasn't trying to get personal there.........but the old southern style is sure good....

259 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:05:28pm

re: #257 reine.de.tout

I think the university fell down on the job when trying to defend their position on this. They truly should have focused on the behavior and its negative effects, rather than the religious tone of it and it looks to me like their very first response had to do with the religious tone. Their primary and strongest responses should have focused on the behaviors that had detrimental effect.

The University fired them for religious reasons though.

Following an investigation, the other two employees were terminated because they “displayed conduct unbecoming a UT Arlington staff member, harassment of a fellow co-worker and blatant disregard for the property of UT Arlington.

Which is probably in their manuals. The defendants are using freedom of religious expression as a defense to their actions.

The University may have wanted to fire them for that, but then they get into murky water. But clearly, they had valid reasons to can these people anyway.

The judge didn't want to touch it which, in of itself, is interesting.

260 Cheechako  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:05:37pm

OT

Stopped by to "observe" the ballot counting for the Alaska Senate seat. Very interesting to watch.
Here's some photos and comments:

Ballot Counting Room

Note that the Official Observers were not given chairs. There are 15 ballot counting stations with each having one observer from each candidate.

Ballot Counting

The boxes on the tables are used to sort the ballots during counting.
- unchallenged and counted
- challenged but counted
- challenged and not counted
- ballots for other candidates

Ballots to be Counted

This appears to be the ballots yet to be counted as of this afternoon.

The counting should be completed by early next week. Radio and TV reports are that Lisa Murkowski will win the election. Over 90% of the ballots counted have been filled out correctly and have the oval filled in.

It was a real privilege to watch history in the making.

261 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:05:53pm

re: #259 marjoriemoon

The University fired them for religious reasons though.

Which is probably in their manuals. The defendants are using freedom of religious expression as a defense to their actions.

The University may have wanted to fire them for that, but then they get into murky water. But clearly, they had valid reasons to can these people anyway.

The judge didn't want to touch it which, in of itself, is interesting.

Sorry, I meant DIDN'T fire them for religious reasons.

262 What, me worry?  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:07:24pm

re: #260 Cheechako

What's amazing to me is that beyond all the technology, much of which has failed, filling in little circles is still the best way to go.

263 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:08:59pm

re: #254 reine.de.tout

This is why I think you're awesome. Though we may not share the same beliefs, I can see that you have great integrity, and do not shy away from criticizing things that should be criticized. This became very apparent to me during the recent scandals within the Catholic church, and your comments on such.

It is because of people like you that I feel I must endeavor to resist painting not only Christians, but people of other faiths, with a broad brush.

I may not always succeed, but it is always in my mind that I must try because of good people like you.

264 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:14:04pm

Human relations vs. human resources

As already stated, human relations consists of increased attention given to the workers by management, which was the key to increased productivity. Human resources, on the other hand, is concerned with the total organization climate as well as with how an organization can encourage employee participation and dialogue. Although very similar, each approach to management focuses on one certain ideal.

Human relations is that of increased productivity. Human resources is that of the organizational climate. Human relations is more focused on giving the employees just enough to keep them happy for the benefit of the company, for example see the Hawthorne Studies. Its major thrust is to improve the productivity of the individual for the benefit of the corporation rather than help the human being to grow

Human resources does just the opposite. They too want increased productivity, however the type of attention that they give to their workers is to first and foremost benefit the person and then the company, similar to Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. This can include, but is not limited to health benefits, vacations, retirement plans & better work atmospheres. The human resource management serves various functions – hiring, payroll, evaluation and performance management, promotions, public relations, compensation & planning.

Interesting, I found that counterintuitive. Based on the terms alone I assumed (wrongly) that an earlier emphasis on nuanced human relations must have been subsumed by an emphasis towards treating employees as resources, things. The opposite seems to be the case.

265 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:19:56pm

Oh joy. The heater just went down. It's supposed to go down to 19 tonight.

Can't find good help these days.

266 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:23:15pm

re: #265 Gus 802

Oh joy. The heater just went down. It's supposed to go down to 19 tonight.

Can't find good help these days.

Start trickling the water, space heaters only work one room at a time and the last thing you need now is for the pipes to freeze.

267 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:25:00pm

re: #266 goddamnedfrank

Start trickling the water, space heaters only work one room at a time and the last thing you need now is for the pipes to freeze.

It's an apartment building so the pipes should be fine. I called to let them know -- I was the 2nd caller. So, last year I sold my oil filled space heaters. Ach! There's always the oven. I saw the HVAC guy this week. Some dorky looking kid.

268 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:30:09pm
269 austin_blue  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:30:56pm

So. Two employees of the UT system believed that a co-worker was, in fact, possessed by demons. And they were serious. So they used olive oil (extra virgin, no doubt) and chanted to cast the demons OUT!

This seems to me to be perfectly acceptable in the new anti-science America.

Pitiful.

But, hey! Welcome to my Texas! Good thing I live in Austin (aka- The People's Republic of Travis County).

270 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:31:40pm

re: #268 Slumbering Behemoth

Space Heater?

Couple of shots of whisky. Sweater. And under the sleeping bag. Bleh.

271 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:34:50pm

re: #30 Shiplord Kirel

My experience with Texas exorcism

Prepare for War! by Rebecca Brown (Handbook for Protestant fundamentalist, as opposed to Catholic exorcists)

Yeah, yoga feels pretty evil the first couple of weeks. Great workout though - especially where free weights aren't even involved.

272 austin_blue  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:40:00pm

re: #271 eclectic infidel

Yeah, yoga feels pretty evil the first couple of weeks. Great workout though - especially where free weights aren't even involved.

And of course you have heard the story of the dyslexic Evangelical who quit her yoga class because she was against the Downward Facing God position....

273 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:41:38pm

re: #270 Gus 802

There's been many times that I have gone to sleep wearing top and bottom thermals, sweats, flannels, and a jacket. As well as having a sleeping bag to throw over me. But I was living out of my car at the time.

Sleeping indoors is way better.

274 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:43:18pm

re: #272 austin_blue

And of course you have heard the story of the dyslexic Evangelical who quit her yoga class because she was against the Downward Facing God position...

Well, now I have. :)

275 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:43:31pm

re: #273 Slumbering Behemoth

There's been many times that I have gone to sleep wearing top and bottom thermals, sweats, flannels, and a jacket. As well as having a sleeping bag to throw over me. But I was living out of my car at the time.

Sleeping indoors is way better.

Eek! Don't remind me. I still have to pay my rent. I'm so broke... oh nevermind.

276 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:44:12pm

Whoa! Check out low these F-100s were flying in the latter half of this video.

Won't see that anymore.

277 austin_blue  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:49:40pm

re: #276 Gus 802

Whoa! Check out low these F-100s were flying in the latter half of this video.


[Video]

Won't see that anymore.

Really?

[Link: www.flixxy.com...]

278 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:51:03pm

re: #249 daddylawbucks

Marshmallows belong on top of baked sweet potatoes...

Just like pineapple and ham belong together atop a thin crust...

279 Gus  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:51:11pm

re: #277 austin_blue

Really?

[Link: www.flixxy.com...]

Woosh! What was that?

I meant at an airshow. Especially the new Thunderbirds. What with safety concerns and all that jazz.

282 austin_blue  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 11:15:19pm

re: #279 Gus 802

Woosh! What was that?

I meant at an airshow. Especially the new Thunderbirds. What with safety concerns and all that jazz.

Granted.

283 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 11:21:12pm

re: #255 goddamnedfrank

In other words no, you wouldn't feel comfortable or safe in that situation, you'd feel quite appropriately afraid.

That was the intent here, to cause fear.

This is why they had to go, because in fact it is better to be respected than feared, and any organization that kowtows to fear mongering bullies quickly learns that acquiescence only brings more of the same.

You make a good point. Given the cases presented here, I'd have to say the yahoos should be fired. If the facts and intent presented are true, then booting these yahoos is needed.


Goodnight, all.

284 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 11:23:41pm

This may make you eyeballs wet...

A few years back I walked out of my apartment for some reason or other, and saw this poor old dog just standing there, looking confused. I approached it slowly, and started to do the hand thing were you let it sniff your hand so it knows you're not a threat.

This poor old mutt (and s/he really was quite old and tired lookin') just rolled on its back without sniffing my hand, and seemingly without noticing that it rolled right into a dirty puddle of water. Poor old thing just wanted a belly rub, which it got, and didn't even concern itself with any kind of threat.

It had a tag, and I called the number. Turns out the dog belonged to the convalescent home just across the street from me.

While I waited for someone to come retrieve the old codger, I got it a few pieces of my Tri-Tip to feed it (if you know me, you know I take my Tri-Tip very seriously, and don't just give it out to anyone), and gave it a few more belly rubs.

Well, an employee showed up to take the mutt back to the home. As I said, the dog belonged to the convalescent home. However, the dog had formed a significant bond with one of the elderly persons that lived there. Best friends, as the employee told the story.

The man had passed away just over a week prior to that poor old mutt showing up in my parking lot. Since his passing, that poor old mutt spent it's days wandering the home looking for his buddy, and spent it's nights sleeping next to his empty bed.

This is why dogs are awesome, and cats are not.

285 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 11:28:09pm

re: #284 Slumbering Behemoth

This may make you eyeballs wet...


[Video]

A few years back I walked out of my apartment for some reason or other, and saw this poor old dog just standing there, looking confused. I approached it slowly, and started to do the hand thing were you let it sniff your hand so it knows you're not a threat.

This poor old mutt (and s/he really was quite old and tired lookin') just rolled on its back without sniffing my hand, and seemingly without noticing that it rolled right into a dirty puddle of water. Poor old thing just wanted a belly rub, which it got, and didn't even concern itself with any kind of threat.

It had a tag, and I called the number. Turns out the dog belonged to the convalescent home just across the street from me.

While I waited for someone to come retrieve the old codger, I got it a few pieces of my Tri-Tip to feed it (if you know me, you know I take my Tri-Tip very seriously, and don't just give it out to anyone), and gave it a few more belly rubs.

Well, an employee showed up to take the mutt back to the home. As I said, the dog belonged to the convalescent home. However, the dog had formed a significant bond with one of the elderly persons that lived there. Best friends, as the employee told the story.

The man had passed away just over a week prior to that poor old mutt showing up in my parking lot. Since his passing, that poor old mutt spent it's days wandering the home looking for his buddy, and spent it's nights sleeping next to his empty bed.

This is why dogs are awesome, and cats are not.

My girl kitty Mila follows me around my house. She doesn't need me to pet her for her to purr - she only needs to sit upright and gaze up at me, and I back at her. When I go away on vacation, she barely eats and according to friends who take care of her, she cries, wandering from room to room looking for me.

Dogs don't own the essence of awesome.

286 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 11:31:03pm

re: #285 eclectic infidel

She'll eat the flesh off of your face just minutes after you pass. Do not doubt that for a second.

/Just ribbing ya. Not all cats are the same, obviously.

287 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 11:32:18pm

re: #286 Slumbering Behemoth

She'll eat the flesh off of your face just minutes after you pass. Do not doubt that for a second.

/Just ribbing ya. Not all cats are the same, obviously.

*chuckles*

288 austin_blue  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 11:33:03pm

Night all! Sweet dreams.

289 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 11:35:50pm

re: #287 eclectic infidel

BTW, dogs do own the essence of awesome, and if you say any different, I'll.. I'll pee on some of your stuff! Yeah!

290 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 11:39:07pm

re: #289 Slumbering Behemoth

BTW, dogs do own the essence of awesome, and if you say any different, I'll.. I'll pee on some of your stuff! Yeah!

As I was reading this post, for a split half-second, I thought you said you'd pee on my leg. Alas, no.

Feeling quirky.

291 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 11:57:39pm

re: #290 eclectic infidel

It's all about contract negotiations. Rates, conditions, working environments, fuel.

Keep in mind, it don't come cheap*.

*this is where I would normally include a piece from the "Howard the Duck" soundtrack, but it has apparently disappeared from the interwebs...

292 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 12:03:33am

re: #291 Slumbering Behemoth

It's all about contract negotiations. Rates, conditions, working environments, fuel.

Keep in mind, it don't come cheap*.

*this is where I would normally include a piece from the "Howard the Duck" soundtrack, but it has apparently disappeared from the interwebs...

*NODS*

Out of the blue, I just made myself a cup of hot milk with sugar.

Just past midnight now. Have a pleasant evening/morning/day, wherever you are.

293 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 12:21:03am

Back atchya.

G'nite all.

/I still want Joan Jett.

294 AK-47%  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 12:26:50am

re: #257 reine.de.tout

I think the university fell down on the job when trying to defend their position on this. They truly should have focused on the behavior and its negative effects, rather than the religious tone of it and it looks to me like their very first response had to do with the religious tone. Their primary and strongest responses should have focused on the behaviors that had detrimental effect.

I think the University officials were very terrified of a flap over them being accused "persecuting Christians for following their faith", which would be touted as a sign of creeping Sharia Law in Texas.

Just imagine a group of Muslims confronting a colleague at the workplace in a similar manner. (If you can, this is Texas after all)

295 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 12:57:29am

re: #205 reine.de.tout

Let me clarify a bit -
the above is what the employer needs to be concerned about, and dealing with.

The employees may try to turn it into a "religious accommodation" issue, but it's nothing of the sort. The employees used this particular method to act in a threatening and frightening way toward another employee. But the issue the employer needs to be dealing with is the negative effect of the behavior, not whether it was religious or not.

good post

If they were completely non-religious but still conducting some sort of stunt, it's the same thing, it's creepy people who are socially stunted othering their coworkers

296 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 12:58:03am

re: #257 reine.de.tout

ya

297 AK-47%  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 2:53:24am

re: #188 Killgore Trout

It's not the flight but the landing that counts...
French launch bid to rewrite history books with claim that Lindbergh was NOT first to fly across the Atlantic


Would anyone really claim it an achievement to land a corpse on the moon? Damn French revisionists.

Lindy is now a figure of popular mythology, no amount of adacemic research is going to displace him from the public consciousness.

Just like the Biblical Creation is part of popular mythology, and no amount of science is going to displace it....

298 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 3:01:55am

re: #297 ralphieboy

Fun fact: Lindbergh was amazing at designing glassware for scientific experiments. Very disciplined scientifically in general.

Not so fun fact: The guy he was doing this for was a dude who was trying to achieve immortality, and was a total racist too.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

299 AK-47%  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 3:16:08am

Why should we let pedestrian facts get in the way of a good story, especially one that confirms our preceonceived notions and beliefs?

It is a tradition that goes back the the dawn on human story telling and continues in the institution of cable news...

300 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 3:18:47am

re: #299 ralphieboy

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence is all about that.

301 AK-47%  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 3:19:53am

But I thought he was the greatest man of all....

302 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 3:24:43am

re: #301 ralphieboy

I think Pompey was the best man in that movie, actually. Always took the morally right action in front of him.

If you're into that movie, this is a great, great piece of writing on it:

[Link: parallax-view.org...]

303 AK-47%  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 3:39:59am

THe whole history of the Council of Nice in compiling what we know as the New Testament was a fine example of myth-building, and it has endured to this day.

304 researchok  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 3:51:00am

Morning. all

305 Varek Raith  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 3:54:52am

I shall now perform an atheist exorcism.
*Tapes beer volcano pic on door*
THE DEMONS HAVE BEEN EXORCISED!
/Ridiculous.

306 researchok  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 3:55:53am

re: #305 Varek Raith

I shall now perform an atheist exorcism.
*Tapes beer volcano pic on door*
THE DEMONS HAVE BEEN EXORCISED!
/Ridiculous.

Updinged because you had an image of the right beer.

308 Kronocide  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 3:57:35am
309 AK-47%  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 4:13:48am

She can come and shackle me if it makes her feel better...

310 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 4:24:03am

re: #297 ralphieboy

Lindy is now a figure of popular mythology, no amount of adacemic research is going to displace him from the public consciousness.

Just like the Biblical Creation is part of popular mythology, and no amount of science is going to displace it...

Not this stuff again. This recurring story is the greatest strawman in aviation. Lindbergh did not claim to be the first to fly across the Atlantic. and that claim is not made on his behalf by anyone with any real knowledge of the subject.

Early Transatlantic flights:
The first people to fly across the Atlantic were the 6 man crew of the US Navy flying boat NC-4, who flew from Newfoundland to Plymouth England via the Azores and Portugal in 1919. They arrived on May 31st, but the landing in Lisbon a few days earlier completed the crossing so far as a record is concerned. They were followed shortly by John Alcock and Arthur Whitten Brown, who fly non-stop from Newfoundland to Clifden, Ireland a few weeks later.
The British airshp R-34 made the first east-west crossing from East Fortune Scotland to Mineola New York between July 5-9 1919. The airship carried 34 people including a stowaway. It returned to Britain a few days later, completing the first double crossing.
Note that all of these flights took place within a few weeks time 8 years before Lindbergh's flight from New York to Paris, and there were a number of others in the intervening time.
Lindbergh's flight was a highly publicized attempt to collect a specific prize for the first non-stop flight from New York to Paris. It was also the first solo flight across the Atlantic and the first non-stop flight from the US to mainland Europe. More than 80 people had flown the Atlantic before him (and survived, unlike Nungesser and Coli).

311 Kronocide  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 4:26:23am

re: #309 ralphieboy

She can come and shackle me if it makes her feel better...

No kidding. I love the 'crazy/hot' graph down the page.

Too bad there's no Opt Out day for all this crazy shit. This is just more low level anti government ragey rage to tide us over until Obama gets back.

312 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 4:36:22am

The debbil hates Olive Oil.

She's skinny, has no tits and talks funny.

313 SteveC  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 4:49:26am

Good morning!

Hit and Run post - some sad news to report:

Dr. Richard Bing has died.

Click, read, and be amazed - this gentleman is pretty awesome.

* Two medical degrees
*500 research articles
* 300+ musical compositions
* Ran the Cardiac Catheterization lab at Johns Hopkins Hospital
* Pretty much invented PET scans

314 Varek Raith  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 4:52:21am

Winning $129 million lottery ticket bought at Detroit-area porn store

(CNN) -- A group of friends got lucky when they bought a winning Powerball ticket at a Detroit-area porn shop.

Mike Greer claimed the $128.6 million prize on Friday, on behalf of a group of southeastern Michigan residents that he dubbed "Team Victory Club." At a press conference in Lansing, Michigan, Greer wouldn't answer questions as to who purchased the ticket at Uptown Book Store in Highland Park, or why they were at the store in the first place.

"Nobody cares," said Greer.

315 SteveC  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 4:55:51am
At a press conference in Lansing, Michigan, Greer wouldn't answer questions as to who purchased the ticket at Uptown Book Store in Highland Park, or why they were at the store in the first place.

"Nobody cares," said Greer.

Isn't this the point in the movie when an outraged reporter stands up and shouts "The public has a right to know!!!" ?

316 Kronocide  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:01:04am

re: #315 SteveC


'I want to get some of these for my wife.....'

317 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:01:12am

re: #313 SteveC

And he worked with Lindbergh and Carrell on the artificial heart, as well.

318 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:05:49am

Ugh. I dreamed that I had a friend. In the dream, we went to the Modern, then came home and watched movies, and fell asleep on the couch. I hate dreams like that. Most depressing shit ever.

319 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:07:27am

re: #314 Varek Raith

I have a very good friend (upper middle-class, uber religious) was anti-lottery...

His wife asked him "Would you be upset if I won the lottery?", he replied "Probably. But I'd get over it."

320 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:12:14am

re: #314 Varek Raith

That sounds like the premise for a Todd Solondz movie.

321 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:13:41am

re: #319 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I have a very good friend (upper middle-class, uber religious) was anti-lottery...

His wife asked him "Would you be upset if I won the lottery?", he replied "Probably. But I'd get over it."

Highly unlikely!!

///

Morning all!!

322 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:16:00am

re: #312 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The debbil hates Olive Oil.

She's skinny, has no tits and talks funny.

In that Popey was a Sailor Man, it just proves the adage
"Any Port In A Storm"!

323 Taqyia2Me  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:17:59am

re: #313 SteveC

Good morning!

Hit and Run post - some sad news to report:

Dr. Richard Bing has died.

Click, read, and be amazed - this gentleman is pretty awesome.

* Two medical degrees
*500 research articles
* 300+ musical compositions
* Ran the Cardiac Catheterization lab at Johns Hopkins Hospital
* Pretty much invented PET scans

Truly amazing life story!

(learned something there about Microsoft's search engine too!)

324 SteveC  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:23:43am

re: #317 Obdicut

And he worked with Lindbergh and Carrell on the artificial heart, as well.

I was thinking "What do I say about Dr. Bing, and what do I leave out? It seems that almost every day he lived, he accomplished something!"

Historical Trivia for the interested: Even though they worked together to document Taussig-Bing Syndrome, Dr. Helen Taussig did not like Dr. Bing. Bing was brought in to run the new Cardiac Catheterization lab and diagnose heart defects, which had been Taussig's job.

Taussig lost her hearing after becoming a Cardiologist and did all the diagnosing with a Floroscope and he hands - she had taught herself how to feel heart sounds by gently placing her fingertips on the patient. From what I've read, she thought Bing was there as the first step toward easing her out... and she didn't appreciate it at all.

She was an excellent research Cardiologist but she had to be constantly worried (and probably a little paranoid) because she was "handicapped". She had practically invented her job, invented the concept of heart surgery, but there was nothing preventing Johns Hopkins from replacing her if they wished.

325 RogueOne  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:34:46am

re: #228 goddamnedfrank

Hypothetically speaking let us suppose that three muslim coworkers performed an islamic exorcism on your personal workspace, would you feel comfortable and safe continuing to work with them?

Absolutely. When I was 18-19 I was told on almost a daily basis by a variety of people that I was going to burn in hell but they were praying for me anyway. Knowing I had pissed people off to the point where they performed an exorcism would strike me as incredibly hilarious. I laughed hard enough just reading the story that I'm afraid I might actually have peed a little if I had seen it in person.

Unless you believe an exorcism or hex has some actual power why would you feel threatened?

326 RogueOne  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:35:24am

Morning People!

327 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:39:33am

re: #325 RogueOne

I was told on almost a daily basis by a variety of people that I was going to burn in hell

Zactically

As Colin Cowherd says

"Thats a you problem, not a me problem"

Someone wants to "condemn me to hell", or stick lil pins into a doll that "looks" like me, or any other such nonsense,my response

eh!

(and this, from a Roman Catholic)

328 Digital Display  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:41:12am

re: #326 RogueOne

Morning People!

Good morning! It's game day in Norman!

329 SteveC  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:41:18am

re: #325 RogueOne

Knowing I had pissed people off to the point where they performed an exorcism would strike me as incredibly hilarious.

And you could add to the hilarity by posting a sign:

THIS SPACE CERTIFIED DEMON FREE AS OF 11/13/2010

330 RogueOne  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:43:27am

re: #329 SteveC

And you could add to the hilarity by posting a sign:

THIS SPACE CERTIFIED DEMON FREE AS OF 11/13/2010

That would have to be done. I'm going to believe that is exactly what this employee did because that would make the story even better.

331 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:45:06am

re: #328 HoosierHoops

Good morning! It's game day in Norman!

"NORM"!!

332 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:50:28am

re: #325 RogueOne

Unless you believe an exorcism or hex has some actual power why would you feel threatened?

It's not so much about feeling threatened by magical powers as it is about having to interact daily with intentionally annoying jackasses.

333 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:52:43am

re: #332 negativ

It's not so much about feeling threatened by magical powers as it is about having to interact daily with intentionally annoying jackasses.

heh,,, YOU try to find a workplace that has more than 1 employee where thats not an issue !!!

//kinda

334 Aye Pod  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:55:57am

re: #34 prairiefire

I believe in binding demons, and I have a college degree.

There are also creationists with college degrees. Education helps to immunise one against medieval nonsense, but it's not completely fooproof.

335 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:57:27am

re: #334 Jimmah

There are also creationists with college degrees. Education helps to immunise one against medieval nonsense, but it's not completely fooproof.

every time you make a foolproof system, someone just makes better fools!!

336 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:58:00am

re: #335 sattv4u2

every time you make a foolproof system, someone just makes better fools!!

Natural selection in action.

337 RogueOne  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:58:23am

re: #332 negativ

It's not so much about feeling threatened by magical powers as it is about having to interact daily with intentionally annoying jackasses.

That's a different argument than what GDFranks was making. I can see that but I have to believe that something pushed these nuts over the edge where they thought an exorcism would help. (Just typing that sentence made me laugh) My take is the employee they hated wasn't there during the behavior so unless they bring in a faith healer next I would find it more funny than annoying.

338 Aye Pod  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:58:50am

The Poetry of Science: Neil deGrasse Tyson & Richard Dawkins:

339 Lidane  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:58:50am

re: #209 lostlakehiker

The key to harassment, as I see it, is intent to mess with the target's head.

No offense, but the entire intent of this "exorcism" was to mess with that employee's head, even if they weren't in the office at the time.

This was harassment wrapped up in religion. Period. If I was that employee, I'd start looking for work elsewhere.

340 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:58:51am

Atheist quiz show

341 SteveC  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:00:46am

re: #333 sattv4u2

heh,,, YOU try to find a workplace that has more than 1 employee where thats not an issue !!!

//kinda

HEH! Volunteered at a small museum that for some reason was set up like General Motors - we had a Board of Directors of about 30 people. And one of the BoD was also a volunteer.... but ask her, she ran the place.

One day she comes in madder than hell and breathing fire. Someone had really ticked her off. (We never found out who, or how.) But from this moment on, whenever anyone wanted to buy anything from the gift shop, she wanted us to ask for her permission to make the sale.

OMG

342 Digital Display  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:01:21am

re: #334 Jimmah

There are also creationists with college degrees. Education helps to immunise one against medieval nonsense, but it's not completely fooproof.

Hi Jimmah! Good to see you here

343 SteveC  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:01:43am

re: #335 sattv4u2

every time you make a foolproof system, someone just makes better fools!!

We can make his stronger, faster... more foolish.

344 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:02:40am

re: #339 Lidane

No offense, but the entire intent of this "exorcism" was to mess with that employee's head, even if they weren't in the office at the time.

This was harassment wrapped up in religion. Period. If I was that employee, I'd start looking for work elsewhere.


You're kidding,, right?? RIGHT!?!?!

Some dillweed performs an "exorcism" at my workstation and I pack up and LEAVE!?!?

feh ,, see my #327. And if I thought I was being harassed, I'd go see management!

345 RogueOne  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:03:18am

My best friend in HS and my roommate during my freshman year of college is a preacher and he just applied for a position at the church in a town just down the road from me. He currently lives out of state. Part of the interview process involves preaching a couple of times at the church. He didn't tell me about it until after he preached because having me "in a church has to be bad luck".

346 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:03:59am

re: #341 SteveC

HEH! Volunteered at a small museum that for some reason was set up like General Motors - we had a Board of Directors of about 30 people. And one of the BoD was also a volunteer... but ask her, she ran the place.

One day she comes in madder than hell and breathing fire. Someone had really ticked her off. (We never found out who, or how.) But from this moment on, whenever anyone wanted to buy anything from the gift shop, she wanted us to ask for her permission to make the sale.

OMG

2 to 1 odds says someone parked in "her" space!

347 Aye Pod  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:05:53am

re: #342 HoosierHoops

Hi Jimmah! Good to see you here

Hi Hoops! How are you doing? Just saw my dad off at the station a short while ago after his week long visit. Drank more in the last week than I did in the previous three months.

348 Lidane  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:07:19am

re: #344 sattv4u2

You're kidding,, right?? RIGHT!?!?!

Nope. I'd go to management, tell them I'm leaving and why, and explain that I simply can't work in an environment where my co-workers are that antagonistic and belligerent towards me. I'd find a sympathetic manager to give me a good reference for my next employer, then start looking for work.

Some dillweed performs an "exorcism" at my workstation and I pack up and LEAVE!?!

I'm not willing to work in an environment where my co-workers think I'm possessed by demons and where they think something like an exorcism would be in any way acceptable. Call me crazy, but I'd like to think I have more dignity than that.

349 Aye Pod  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:07:47am

re: #340 negativ

Atheist quiz show


[Video]

Awesome! That should be a page.

350 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:07:50am

re: #347 Jimmah

Hi Hoops! How are you doing? Just saw my dad off at the station a short while ago after his week long visit. Drank more in the last week than I did in the previous three months.

Some of my relatives cause me to drink a lot also,,and NOT celebratory!!!

///
kidding,,,

351 Digital Display  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:07:55am

re: #345 RogueOne

My best friend in HS and my roommate during my freshman year of college is a preacher and he just applied for a position at the church in a town just down the road from me. He currently lives out of state. Part of the interview process involves preaching a couple of times at the church. He didn't tell me about it until after he preached because having me "in a church has to be bad luck".

I really like public speaking...Killed the class in College..I would be a good preacher..Or sell stuff on TV...

352 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:08:02am

re: #325 RogueOne

Unless you believe an exorcism or hex has some actual power why would you feel threatened?

Because of the extreme likelihood for escalated targeting and abuse one should expect from the kind of stone stupid jerk offs who would engage in a magical ritual destined for failure. Identifying someone as of the devil, possessed by demons or the anti Christ is a well established form of dehumanization, both a prelude to and justification for further acts of unkindness.

353 SteveC  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:08:26am

re: #346 sattv4u2

2 to 1 odds says someone parked in "her" space!

She was kind of like Lyndon Johnson: Johnson was walking toward a group of helicopters, then starts to angle off toward one of the choppers.

Aide: "No, President Johnson, not that one. There's your helicopter over there."

Johnson: "Son, I'm the President. All of them are my helicopters."

354 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:08:50am

re: #348 Lidane

I'm not willing to work in an environment where my co-workers think I'm possessed by demons and where they think something like an exorcism would be in any way acceptable.

Again ,, thats a THEM problem ,,, not a ME problem

feh!

355 RogueOne  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:10:35am

re: #351 HoosierHoops

I really like public speaking...Killed the class in College..I would be a good preacher..Or sell stuff on TV...

Are there still the old school faith healers on local tv? I don't know of any in the Indy markets. If there are there has to be some in OK, if not you could start the trend./

356 Lidane  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:12:12am

re: #354 sattv4u2

I'm not willing to work in an environment where my co-workers think I'm possessed by demons and where they think something like an exorcism would be in any way acceptable.

Again ,, thats a THEM problem ,,, not a ME problem

feh!

Except that a THEM problem of that magnitude is hell on inter-office relationships and productivity, and it completely destroys any trust that might have existed before. It also has the potential to get worse. If the first exorcism doesn't work (i.e., you're still the same person you were before), what's to stop them from doing it again and again and again, or dragging a preacher into it, or escalating it somehow?

I couldn't work in an environment like that. Sure, that's my problem, but hey-- that's just how it is.

357 SteveC  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:13:38am

re: #355 RogueOne

Are there still the old school faith healers on local tv? I don't know of any in the Indy markets. If there are there has to be some in OK, if not you could start the trend./

SAY-TAN, come ouuuuuut, and be heee-aled in da name of da Lawd!

358 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:14:17am

re: #12 albusteve

"religious expression in the workplace"...what a crackpot...you shove a silver cross in my face at work and you'll be headed to the dentist

In my case they'd be heading for the proctologist.

359 Digital Display  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:15:43am

re: #355 RogueOne

Are there still the old school faith healers on local tv? I don't know of any in the Indy markets. If there are there has to be some in OK, if not you could start the trend./

I've done a few gigs speaking about IT..I like public speaking

360 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:15:47am

re: #357 SteveC

SAY-TAN, come ouuut, and be heee-aled in da name of da Lawd!

All for 4 easy payments of $39.99 each!

361 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:17:06am

re: #17 JasonA

On the other hand, this does absolve one of responsibility for their actions.

hmmm...

True. If, when some one criticized my actions, I vomited green slime all over them and then created a rain of toads in their office they'd probably be disinclined to do so in the future.

362 Aye Pod  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:18:37am

re: #352 goddamnedfrank

Because of the extreme likelihood for escalated targeting and abuse one should expect from the kind of stone stupid jerk offs who would engage in a magical ritual destined for failure. Identifying someone as of the devil, possessed by demons or the anti Christ is a well established form of dehumanization, both a prelude to and justification for further acts of unkindness.

Yep. This is so obviously harrassment of a particularly nasty sort.

363 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:20:59am

re: #351 HoosierHoops

I really like public speaking...Killed the class in College..I would be a good preacher..Or sell stuff on TV...

I too have never been afraid of public speaking. I can't relate to stage fright. I think I'd be pretty good at demotivational speaking, faith sickening, and so on.

364 SteveC  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:26:36am

re: #363 negativ

I too have never been afraid of public speaking. I can't relate to stage fright. I think I'd be pretty good at demotivational speaking, faith sickening, and so on.

I'm decent, but not spectacular. But I also work cheap! :)

365 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:27:00am

re: #363 negativ

I too have never been afraid of public speaking. I can't relate to stage fright. I think I'd be pretty good at demotivational speaking, faith sickening, and so on.

"Last quarter, we were way too productive. We almost reached profitability!
You all need to do less, take longer coffee breaks, and just in general be more blase',,,"

366 SteveC  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:28:52am

re: #365 sattv4u2

"Last quarter, we were way too productive. We almost reached profitability!
You all need to do less, take longer coffee breaks, and just in general be more blase',,,"

What do you think you can contribute around here? Stop that right now!

367 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:39:04am

The Onion on education reform

Bonus question: how the hell do you embed Onion videos?

368 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:39:30am

They saw Paranormal Activity and took it a bit too seriously.
/

369 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:40:24am

re: #365 sattv4u2

"Last quarter, we were way too productive. We almost reached profitability!
You all need to do less, take longer coffee breaks, and just in general be more blase',,,"

370 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:41:05am

re: #367 negativ

The Onion on education reform

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

Bonus question: how the hell do you embed Onion videos?

Start with dinner and drinks. Perhaps some flowers! Complimentary weet talk.

oh ,, wait ,, you didn't say IN BED !!

Nevahmind!!

371 SteveC  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:46:52am

re: #370 sattv4u2

Start with dinner and drinks. Perhaps some flowers! Complimentary weet talk.

oh ,, wait ,, you didn't say IN BED !!

Nevahmind!!

What a maroon! ;)

372 sattv4u2  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:48:56am

re: #371 SteveC

What a maroon! ;)

I've never been a big fan! The coconut gets caught between my teeth!

Oh ,, wait ,, you didn't type macaroon ,, nevahmind!

373 Aye Pod  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:49:09am

Death in Vegas - Dirt

BBL

374 Max  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 6:57:34am

Dick Armey: There will be no compromise on social issues, and a fight will be had to restore the Mexico City policy.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

375 RogueOne  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 7:20:56am

Gun season starts today, deer hunting. In Indiana you can get up to 14 deer this year, that includes all the different tags and seasons.

376 DrBoobooday  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 7:45:39am

Oh no, they're on to us!

Don't my demons deserve accommodation? I demand room in my office for demons. You can keep your olive oil for your salad dressing.

377 Mich-again  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 7:51:16am

Agreed that it is completely inappropriate for anyone to perform an excorcism in the workplace. Geesh. WTF is wrong with people to even think something like this is covered under some kind of religious freedom. Test the logic by applying an extreme example.. If a person's religious convictions give them freedom to impose their religion on others, then it must be OK for a Jihadi to kill infidels as well.

Although I do recall working at a factory years back where a very important piece of automation was problematic on a daily basis and consumed much of the process engineers' efforts. We used to huddle around the operator panel with coffees in hand at the start of the shift and on certain occasions I would recite this little prayer as a joke..

Oh Great God of Chaos, please grant your mercy on these heavenly vehicles and bestow upon them the film build they so justly deserve Amen.

378 jaunte  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 7:53:02am

re: #374 Max D. Reinhardt

I wonder how Dick Armey thinks we're going to actually enforce the provisions of that policy without adding to the government payroll.

The Mexico City policy is named for the place where it was first announced by the Reagan administration. It provides that organizations that seek family planning funds from the US Agency on International Development (USAID) have to refrain from using any of their own funds to provide abortions, except in the case of rape or incest or to protect the life of the mother. Furthermore, organizations could not get US government funding if they lobbied to make or keep abortions legal in their country or provided abortion referrals. During the Bush administration the policy was in force. It was repealed early in President Obama’s term. [Link: www.csmonitor.com...]
380 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 8:11:36am

re: #377 Mich-again

A company is not obligated to allow prayer groups on their premises, let alone anything else.

381 jaunte  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 8:12:54am

re: #379 Killgore Trout

New grist for the Harpy Rant Generator.

382 wrenchwench  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 8:17:59am

re: #379 Killgore Trout

Mosque opens blocks from Ground Zero, and New Yorkers don't give a crap. Bonus: happened two months ago (headline lifted from Fark)

I'd call that a questionable source. He hates Park51 and could be spreading disinformation.

383 Steve Dutch  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 8:18:24am

Charles, you're losin' it. Weird, yes, but nothing was damaged apart from an oil smear on the door, nobody was threatened. The employee wasn't confronted although you can bet now, thanks to UTA's ham-fisted approach, everybody knows who it is. Nobody would even have known if one of the participants hadn't talked and UTA hadn't gone full-bore stupid. I'm more threatened knowing there are people like #352 and #362 running around thinking this was dangerous.

384 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 8:20:49am

re: #382 wrenchwench

Nice catch.

385 lostlakehiker  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 8:23:56am

re: #34 prairiefire

I believe in binding demons, and I have a college degree.

Belief in spirits is not, in my opinion, justified by real-world data. As we learn more about how the brain works, many of the behaviors that were formerly attributed to supernatural causes can now be put down to brain tumors, epilepsy, and so on.

Theologically, a straight reading of the Bible does seem to say they're real. But for believers, there remains the question, on a case by case basis, whether this time it's a spirit, or a mundane situation. Long experience with fake miracles has taught the Catholic Church caution. It's not crazy to believe in spirits, because any number of sane-by-any-rational-standard people do so believe. It's crazy to believe in spirits to the exclusion of the infinitely more common explanations of daily life.

Shakespeare had a great laugh line in Henry IV:

Glendower:I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur:Why, so can I, or so can any man;But will they come when you do call for them?
386 jaunte  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 8:26:01am

re: #383 SteveDutch

Do you think that UTA did have a "duty to accommodate harassing conduct aimed at a co-worker?"

387 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 8:28:14am

re: #382 wrenchwench

I'd call that a questionable source. He hates Park51 and could be spreading disinformation.

Nice catch. Serves me right for linking to a Fox article.

388 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 8:33:53am

re: #383 SteveDutch

How do you feel if the ad hoc exorcists were:

Scientologists
Satanists (lulzy Anton LaVey version)
Satanists (creepy Temple of Set version)
Salafist Muslims
followers of Yahweh ben Yahweh
followers of Aum Shinrikyo
pushy atheists who couldn't pass up a chance to argue religion with you

389 Digital Display  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 8:38:34am

re: #383 SteveDutch

I think you have gone full bore stupid.. If anyone stood outside my office door performing an exorcism I'd have called security or knocked you out..And it doesn't matter if it was after hours..
Idiot

390 JeffFX  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 8:45:36am

re: #389 HoosierHoops

I think you have gone full bore stupid.. If anyone stood outside my office door performing an exorcism I'd have called security or knocked you out..And it doesn't matter if it was after hours..
Idiot

Assault is not an appropriate remedy for people acting weird. Security is there for a reason.

391 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 8:48:13am

re: #390 JeffFX

Assault is not an appropriate remedy for people acting weird. Security is there for a reason.

Assault is appropriate in some cases. Makes the person think about his actions next time.

392 reine.de.tout  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 8:51:39am

Pimping my own page - Dogs Decoded.

This is just too good a show not to mention it here.
If you have an hour to spare, this is well worth your time to watch.

Near the beginning, there are some very interesting eye signal experiments.

If you watch through, at the end they reference an experiment started in Russia 50 years ago, where they selected fox pups for lack of fear and aggression toward humans, and bred those pups. Within a few generations, they had become quite tame and cuddly, and not only that, their coloring began to change (became more "dog-like") and other physical characteristics changed as well (their tails became shorter and pointed in a different direction). It was quite the eye-opener.

As part of the same experiment, they selected pups that were quite aggressive, and kept breeding those. Within a few generations those pups had become monster-like in their aggressive behavior.

They also placed aggressive pups with tame moms (and vice-versa). The pups retained their genetically coded behavior (aggressive or tame), rather than taking on the mom's behavior.

Anyhoo - very very interesting show; worth a watch (and in my case, worth a re-watch!).

393 Digital Display  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 8:51:48am

re: #390 JeffFX

Assault is not an appropriate remedy for people acting weird. Security is there for a reason.

You're right...still..I'd want to bitch slap them..But you are right..hehehe
Ring ring Security
yea..Security..There are these folks chanting loudly outside my office
What are they saying?
I think they are calling out Satan
What floor are you on?
3rd...
You're not the first one..Johnny! another call from the 3rd floor
Are they calling out for a young priest and an old priest?
Yeah...
Laughter.. OK we'll be there soon

394 jaunte  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 8:52:56am

re: #392 reine.de.tout

Very good show; thanks for making it a page. I'm going to pass on the link to a lot of people.

395 prairiefire  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 8:58:49am

re: #392 reine.de.tout

Marjorie mentioned up thread how the show explained that humans use the left side of their faces more in expressing emotion, and dogs have learned that. It's all very interesting.

396 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 8:59:02am

I forgot to pay my exorcist and got repossessed.

Late morning all...

397 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:01:02am

re: #395 prairiefire

Marjorie mentioned up thread how the show explained that humans use the left side of their faces more in expressing emotion, and dogs have learned that. It's all very interesting.

I have two dogs and both of em are intelligent in different ways. Buster the Lhaso is cunning in figuring out how to get at whatever piece of food you may have left laying around. We've had to hide every bit of chocolate ever because he loves the stuff even though it is deadly poison to him.

Toby, our Flat Coated Retriever is better at learning training and doing what we want, but is an absolute lummox and doofus otherwise. Just a big ol' goofy dog. I wouldn't be without either of them.

398 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:02:42am

Many too small boxes and Maru

399 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:04:26am

re: #398 Killgore Trout

Many too small boxes and Maru

[Video]

The look on the cats face reminds me of Tunch over at Balloon Jice

400 JeffFX  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:05:21am

re: #391 Cannadian Club Akbar

Assault is appropriate in some cases. Makes the person think about his actions next time.

Sure, as he sits in a jail-cell facing an assault charge.

401 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:05:44am

Weren't they just banishing demons from the office and not the dude himself?

402 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:06:04am

re: #398 Killgore Trout

Many too small boxes and Maru

[Video]

That was entertaining

403 Mr. Crankypants  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:07:00am

re: #399 PT Barnum

The look on the cats face reminds me of Tunch over at Balloon Juice

SCIMF

404 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:07:12am

re: #400 JeffFX

Sure, as he sits in a jail-cell facing an assault charge.

Not if there is no witness.

405 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:07:37am

If they do an exorcism on my house while I'm not home, are they banishing my demons or just cleansing my house?

What if it's a house I lived in 5 years ago?

What if it's my childhood home?

406 Velvet Elvis  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:10:35am

And what's up with olive oil?

Can't they do their hearts a favor and use canoloa?

sorry, too much coffee

407 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:11:38am

re: #406 Conservative Moonbat

And what's up with olive oil?

Can't they do their hearts a favor and use canoloa?

sorry, too much coffee

Olive oil is better for you, actually.

408 Digital Display  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:12:10am

re: #406 Conservative Moonbat

And what's up with olive oil?

Can't they do their hearts a favor and use canoloa?

sorry, too much coffee

The power of Christ compels you
/

409 jaunte  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:13:48am

re: #406 Conservative Moonbat

And what's up with olive oil?


They were out of 'Ware Demon-40

410 Digital Display  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:14:48am

re: #407 Cannadian Club Akbar

Olive oil is better for you, actually.

What's up CCA? Hope today finds you well..
81000 fans have shown up 2 blocks from me for the OU game...It's getting crazy out there...

411 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:15:46am

Heh.
Most big companies keep the exorcists on the IT payroll. At least before Windows 7 they did.

412 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:15:46am

re: #410 HoosierHoops

What's up CCA? Hope today finds you well..
81000 fans have shown up 2 blocks from me for the OU game...It's getting crazy out there...

Dude, we need a BBQ rib stand there. We'll make a mint!!!

413 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:19:05am
414 wrenchwench  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:27:39am

re: #413 Killgore Trout

Bow!

She's shaking his hand! Western cultural imperialism!

/nut of another wing

415 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:29:18am

Anyone else catch this Christian editorial at CNN?
[Link: religion.blogs.cnn.com...]
SNIP
Our Take: Your relationship style determines how you feel toward God
Editor's Note: Tim Clinton, President of American Association of Christian Counselors, and Joshua Straub, an adjunct professor at Liberty University, are the authors of God Attachment.

Attachment theory helps us understand our misconceptions about who God is and how we approach a relationship with him. The problem isn’t God; it is the way we view him and act toward him.

416 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:29:40am

Christian woman sentenced to death in Pakistan for 'blasphemy'

The court heard she had been working as a farmhand in fields with other women, when she was asked to fetch drinking water.
Some of the other women – all Muslims – refused to drink the water as it had been brought by a Christian and was therefore "unclean", according to Mrs Bibi's evidence, sparking a row.

The incident was forgotten until a few days later when Mrs Bibi said she was set upon by a mob.

The police were called and took her to a police station for her own safety.
Shahzad Kamran, of the Sharing Life Ministry Pakistan, said: "The police were under pressure from this Muslim mob, including clerics, asking for Asia to be killed because she had spoken ill of the Prophet Mohammed.

"So after the police saved her life they then registered a blasphemy case against her." He added that she had been held in isolation for more than a year before being sentenced to death on Monday.

417 darthstar  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:30:48am

Eric Cantor now setting US-Israeli policy. Stupid fucking Republicans.

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

418 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:31:00am

re: #415 Rightwingconspirator

Anyone else catch this Christian editorial at CNN?
[Link: religion.blogs.cnn.com...]
SNIP
Our Take: Your relationship style determines how you feel toward God
Editor's Note: Tim Clinton, President of American Association of Christian Counselors, and Joshua Straub, an adjunct professor at Liberty University, are the authors of God Attachment.

Attachment theory helps us understand our misconceptions about who God is and how we approach a relationship with him. The problem isn’t God; it is the way we view him and act toward him.

STEALTH BUDDHISM!!!!!!1

419 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:31:02am

You are all gonna die. (This statement is true)

420 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:31:59am

re: #417 darthstar

Eric Cantor now setting US-Israeli policy. Stupid fucking Republicans.

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Easy with the broad brush!!!

421 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:32:12am

re: #419 Cannadian Club Akbar

Aubade

I work all day, and get half-drunk at night.
Waking at four to soundless dark, I stare.
In time the curtain-edges will grow light.
Till then I see what's really always there:
Unresting death, a whole day nearer now,
Making all thought impossible but how
And where and when I shall myself die.
Arid interrogation: yet the dread
Of dying, and being dead,
Flashes afresh to hold and horrify.
The mind blanks at the glare. Not in remorse
- The good not done, the love not given, time
Torn off unused - nor wretchedly because
An only life can take so long to climb
Clear of its wrong beginnings, and may never;
But at the total emptiness for ever,
The sure extinction that we travel to
And shall be lost in always. Not to be here,
Not to be anywhere,
And soon; nothing more terrible, nothing more true.

This is a special way of being afraid
No trick dispels. Religion used to try,
That vast, moth-eaten musical brocade
Created to pretend we never die,
And specious stuff that says No rational being
Can fear a thing it will not feel, not seeing
That this is what we fear - no sight, no sound,
No touch or taste or smell, nothing to think with,
Nothing to love or link with,
The anasthetic from which none come round.

And so it stays just on the edge of vision,
A small, unfocused blur, a standing chill
That slows each impulse down to indecision.
Most things may never happen: this one will,
And realisation of it rages out
In furnace-fear when we are caught without
People or drink. Courage is no good:
It means not scaring others. Being brave
Lets no one off the grave.
Death is no different whined at than withstood.

Slowly light strengthens, and the room takes shape.
It stands plain as a wardrobe, what we know,
Have always known, know that we can't escape,
Yet can't accept. One side will have to go.
Meanwhile telephones crouch, getting ready to ring
In locked-up offices, and all the uncaring
Intricate rented world begins to rouse.
The sky is white as clay, with no sun.
Work has to be done.
Postmen like doctors go from house to house.

Philip Larkin

422 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:32:29am

re: #417 darthstar

Eric Cantor now setting US-Israeli policy. Stupid fucking Republicans.

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

I thought the Republicans had a gigantic cow when some Democrats visited Iraq at some point. I guess they've changed their minds.

Also, what is Cantor going to do, given that Obama's Israel policy is substantially no different from Bush's, which was substantially no different than Clinton's?

423 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:32:32am

re: #417 darthstar

Eric Cantor now setting US-Israeli policy. Stupid fucking Republicans.

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

That's a bit weird, no?

424 darthstar  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:33:55am

re: #420 Cannadian Club Akbar

Easy with the broad brush!!!

The Republican party is doing all it can to deligitimize and sabotage the President. Imagine if Pelosi had said something similar to a foreign leader in 2006. You'd all be shitting yourselves calling for her removal from congress.

425 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:34:20am

re: #422 Obdicut

I thought the Republicans had a gigantic cow when some Democrats visited Iraq at some point. I guess they've changed their minds.

Also, what is Cantor going to do, given that Obama's Israel policy is substantially no different from Bush's, which was substantially no different than Clinton's?

Yeah, I remember some episode where a group of Democrats in Congress did something and accusations of treason were being tossed around like confetti.

And as for your second question...damned if he knows, but he's gonna do it at the top of his lungs.

426 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:34:51am

re: #422 Obdicut

Cantor and the GOP will push Obama on Israel same if nothing had been said. Strikes me to be a statement of the obvious "outed" with a sensational slant.

427 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:35:11am

re: #424 darthstar

The Republican party is doing all it can to deligitimize and sabotage the President. Imagine if Pelosi had said something similar to a foreign leader in 2006. You'd all be shitting yourselves calling for her removal from congress.

Well, certainly the people who were here in 2006 would have.

428 darthstar  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:35:23am

re: #422 Obdicut

I thought the Republicans had a gigantic cow when some Democrats visited Iraq at some point. I guess they've changed their minds.

Also, what is Cantor going to do, given that Obama's Israel policy is substantially no different from Bush's, which was substantially no different than Clinton's?

He's going to sabotage any progress the President might make, in hopes they can revisit the situation in two years.

429 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:35:48am

re: #424 darthstar

The Republican party is doing all it can to deligitimize and sabotage the President. Imagine if Pelosi had said something similar to a foreign leader in 2006. You'd all be shitting yourselves calling for her removal from congress.

Logan Act?

430 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:36:03am

re: #426 Rightwingconspirator

But what are they going to push for, exactly? That's one thing that Cantor severely leaves out. Obama's Israel policy is basically the same as Bush's. So what's there for the Republicans to push about, that they didn't bother to do when Bush was president?

431 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:36:49am

Let's get this party started!!!

432 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:36:58am

re: #429 Cannadian Club Akbar

Logan Act?

Ah, yes, that was the Act in question.

433 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:38:18am

re: #430 Obdicut

But what are they going to push for, exactly? That's one thing that Cantor severely leaves out. Obama's Israel policy is basically the same as Bush's. So what's there for the Republicans to push about, that they didn't bother to do when Bush was president?

What this batch wants is to smear Obama as being somehow anti-Israel. That is their goal, which has nothing to do with helping or hindering Israel.

434 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:40:46am

re: #430 Obdicut

So far that is correct. Obama could change direction if he chose for some good reason, perhaps a harder line on settlements for instance... Now it's understood the GOP congress would try to head that off.

435 darthstar  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:41:18am

Cantor just stepped on Hillary's toes. Shit could hit the fan fast on this one, and Grayson's still in congress until January...he could push the Logan act on Cantor.

436 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:42:06am

re: #434 Rightwingconspirator

So far that is correct. Obama could change direction if he chose for some good reason, perhaps a harder line on settlements for instance... Now it's understood the GOP congress would try to head that off.

Ah, so Cantor took this unprecedented step based on the assumption that Obama might do something.

That makes very little sense, especially for why Cantor would say that to Netanyahu, and not to Obama.

437 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:43:15am

Got the blue screen of death!! GAH!!

438 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:44:29am

re: #435 darthstar

Cantor just stepped on Hillary's toes. Shit could hit the fan fast on this one, and Grayson's still in congress until January...he could push the Logan act on Cantor.

The Obama admin has repeatedly shown itself utterly gutless and incapable of standing up to anyone with an (R) after their name. Rest assured there will be no repercussions.

439 wrenchwench  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:45:55am
UPDATE: Brad Dayspring, from Rep. Cantor's office says my conclusion here:
"I can't remember an opposition leader telling a foreign leader, in a personal meeting, that he would side, as a policy, with that leader against the president."

is unjustified by this paragraph from the statement:

Eric stressed that the new Republican majority will serve as a check on the Administration and what has been, up until this point, one party rule in Washington. He made clear that the Republican majority understands the special relationship between Israel and the United States, and that the security of each nation is reliant upon the other.

Writes Dayspring: "The claim you make below simply isn't in there."

I think it is (or I wouldn't have written it), but in fairness, I should note Cantor's office's objection. The statement outlines a discussion between Cantor and Netanyahu that covered policy differences between the GOP and the White House over Iran and the Palestinians. The GOP positions happen to coincide with Netanyahu's in both areas, although -- it is true -- Cantor's office's statement does not make this explicit.

[...]

I don't think this is central to anyone's point, but I did think Kampeas's assessment was a stretch.

440 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:46:27am

re: #436 Obdicut

This has been sensationalized. All he did was assure Netanyahu of exactly what was happening anyway. Apart from saying this to Netanyahu at that time and place, there are no surprises here.

""OMG he let the mask slip with Netanyahu.""

Might be a big protocol thing, but not striking me as a big policy hing.

441 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:47:41am

re: #436 Obdicut

Ah, so Cantor took this unprecedented step based on the assumption that Obama might do something.

That makes very little sense, especially for why Cantor would say that to Netanyahu, and not to Obama.

I keep thinking it's unprecedented as well, but is it? I'm trying to think of another example, of a Congressman announcing to a foreign leader that his party will serve as a 'check' on the President's foreign policy. Is this actually routine, and I just never noticed?

442 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:49:18am

re: #435 darthstar

Why would that stick any better this time than in past instances?

443 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:54:39am

Congress gets into Israel policy regularly. Saying so out loud to an Israeli leader is a big deal?
Check this out in Haaretz from 02...
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

WASHINGTON - Despite a concerted campaign of pressure and persuasion on the part of the White House and the State Department, supporters of Israel in the U.S. Congress passed a resolution yesterday, expressing solidarity with the Jewish state in its war against terror.

444 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:57:49am

re: #443 Rightwingconspirator

Congress gets into Israel policy regularly. Saying so out loud to an Israeli leader is a big deal?
Check this out in Haaretz from 02...
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

WASHINGTON - Despite a concerted campaign of pressure and persuasion on the part of the White House and the State Department, supporters of Israel in the U.S. Congress passed a resolution yesterday, expressing solidarity with the Jewish state in its war against terror.

Passing a resolution in Congress, which is the business of Congress, is actually a little different than telling a foreign leader that your party will protect his interests from the President of the United States of America.

Note, I am not calling for Cantor's head, I just find this a tacky and manipulative thing to do.

445 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:58:39am

re: #444 SanFranciscoZionist

I can see that.

446 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 9:59:21am

re: #443 Rightwingconspirator

Israel should punk Hezbollah more, when they aren't hiding behind women and children. Bitches.

447 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 10:00:13am

re: #444 SanFranciscoZionist

I think I had a case of "decaf outrage". Tacky and manipulative sounds right. Worthy of Logan act prosecution? Meh.

448 darthstar  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 10:01:03am

re: #443 Rightwingconspirator

Congress gets into Israel policy regularly. Saying so out loud to an Israeli leader is a big deal?
Check this out in Haaretz from 02...
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

WASHINGTON - Despite a concerted campaign of pressure and persuasion on the part of the White House and the State Department, supporters of Israel in the U.S. Congress passed a resolution yesterday, expressing solidarity with the Jewish state in its war against terror.

In 02, they were pushing post 9/11 policy statements to further support the president. Now they're openly stating they'll work against him.

449 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 10:02:21am

re: #448 darthstar

In 02, they were pushing post 9/11 policy statements to further support the president. Now they're openly stating they'll work against him.

Welcome to Politics.

450 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 10:03:53am

re: #447 Rightwingconspirator

I think I had a case of "decaf outrage". Tacky and manipulative sounds right. Worthy of Logan act prosecution? Meh.

The Logan Act has been invoked so many times in the last few years...I don't know about worthy, but a waste of time.

I would like to see Congressional leadership make it clear that the new House is not going to start running around the world declaring their own foreign policy.

451 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 10:04:10am

re: #448 darthstar
My point is that Congress has its say all the time. For or against.

In this case-Against him in what? Against his support of Israel? Of course not.
Against him pushing too hard on Israel (not such a remote possibility) to get a peace deal moving or done? That's a certainty in any case.

452 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 10:04:57am

re: #448 darthstar

In 02, they were pushing post 9/11 policy statements to further support the president. Now they're openly stating they'll work against him.

If it's a matter of a Congressional resolution, they can be for the president, or against him, or sideways. Congress gets to pass all the resolutions they can stand.

453 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 10:06:00am

re: #450 SanFranciscoZionist
re: #448 darthstar

A symptom of the sad state of affairs is the new congress in and looking for a fight, and opposed to cooperating. That is the really dastardly consequence of who won the elections.

454 darthstar  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 10:06:48am

re: #451 Rightwingconspirator

My point is that Congress has its say all the time. For or against.

In this case-Against him in what? Against his support of Israel? Of course not.
Against him pushing too hard on Israel (not such a remote possibility) to get a peace deal moving or done? That's a certainty in any case.

Against him on which way the toilet paper rolls, if it will score one political point. They don't give a fuck about Israel. They just want to get control of the narrative...now CNN will interview Cantor whenever there's a discussion of Israeli policy. He's appointed himself shadow Sec of State. And there won't be any question about whether this is good or not. It will just be.

455 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 10:06:53am

re: #453 Rightwingconspirator

re: #448 darthstar

A symptom of the sad state of affairs is the new congress in and looking for a fight, and opposed to cooperating. That is the really dastardly consequence of who won the elections.

Same as in 2006.

456 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 10:12:00am

re: #454 darthstar

I doubt this will be that effective, or powerful. Time will tell. The GOP is not going against Israel, if anything it's a cock fight display of who can support Israel more, Obama or the GOP Congress. And a sideshow.

457 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 10:13:16am

Out fo a bit. BBL.

458 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 10:19:54am

I got gear to prep, lenses to polish, it's a brilliant clear day. I'm going out and uphill later. This Israel policy wonk stuff can await Sunday morning talking head speculations. I'm sure this will be all the rage for the bobblehead pundits.

459 darthstar  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 10:21:22am

re: #456 Rightwingconspirator

I doubt this will be that effective, or powerful. Time will tell. The GOP is not going against Israel, if anything it's a cock fight display of who can support Israel more, Obama or the GOP Congress. And a sideshow.



If it's a cock fight, the Republicans are fucked.

460 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 10:23:58am

re: #459 darthstar


If it's a cock fight, the Republicans are fucked.

Sorry, Hah, we agree Cantor is the bigger dick.

461 CuriousLurker  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 10:29:05am

re: #439 wrenchwench

I don't think this is central to anyone's point, but I did think Kampeas's assessment was a stretch.

I agree. I have no love whatsoever for Eric Cantor, but to me it's reminiscent of the whole "questionable loyalty" thing. I generally like TPM, but their editorial use of the Cantor headshot next to Netanyahu's reinforces that as well.

Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but it creeps me out in light of the current political climate. I don't think any Jew, Muslim, Catholic, atheist, or other person not religiously aligned with the far-right should disregard this stuff, regardless of how subtle it is and regardless which way they lean politically.

462 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 10:33:39am

re: #441 SanFranciscoZionist

I keep thinking it's unprecedented as well, but is it? I'm trying to think of another example, of a Congressman announcing to a foreign leader that his party will serve as a 'check' on the President's foreign policy. Is this actually routine, and I just never noticed?

It's incredibly bad form. And Cantor's reason for doing this had nothing to do with his support for Israel -- it was intended to send a message to the loony right wing base, who are convinced despite all evidence to the contrary that Obama is anti-Israel. Cantor was reinforcing this utterly false meme, and that was the real reason for his creepy statement.

463 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 10:35:55am

re: #462 Charles

It's incredibly bad form. And Cantor's reason for doing this had nothing to do with his support for Israel -- it was intended to send a message to the loony right wing base, who are convinced despite all evidence to the contrary that Obama is anti-Israel. Cantor was reinforcing this utterly false meme, and that was the real reason for his creepy statement.

Very much agree. The idea of Obama as anti-Israel was being ferociously pushed from the time it became clear he would get the nomination, just as the idea that Bush was a special special friend of Israel's was being pushed throughout his administration. (JOFA, did you really need to send me all those e-mails?)

464 CuriousLurker  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 10:38:17am

re: #462 Charles

It is indeed bad form and, IMO, foolish on Cantor's part for the reasons I gave in #461.

465 prairiefire  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 11:02:25am

Cantor and Boehner are both also involved in the GOP Civil War. I expect there will be a lot more "cock of the walk" crowing from congressional GOPers as they continue to try to prove their stones to their base.

466 Etaoin Shrdlu  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 4:44:22pm

re: #329 SteveC

    This department has worked
            [ 0 ][ 0 ][ 2 ][ 1 ]
days since the last demonic possession

467 Fenris  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:57:24pm

The location is actually kinda odd. I checked the donation history of all those who list UT as their place of profession on opensecrets.org and it was heavily left-leaning. Doesn't sound like the kinds of people who'd do that. Maybe it's just an Arlington thing.

468 Lidane  Sat, Nov 13, 2010 5:58:33pm

re: #462 Charles

it was intended to send a message to the loony right wing base, who are convinced despite all evidence to the contrary that Obama is anti-Israel.

It's an extension of the birther idiocy. Since they're all convinced he's a Seekrit Mooslim Nazi Overlord, they're naturally convinced he hates Israel.

Cantor is playing into that with this garbage, and undermining the Secretary of State and US foreign policy in the process.


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