Planned Parenthood Under Attack by Extremist Lila Rose

The ever popular edited undercover right wing sting video
Wingnuts • Views: 33,729

Gail Collins has a good piece in the New York Times about the latest smears perpetrated by Lila Rose (and hyped by fraudster Andrew Breitbart) against Planned Parenthood.

“Planned Parenthood aids and abets the sexual abuse and prostitution of minors,” announced Lila Rose, the beautiful anti-abortion activist who led the project. The right wing is currently chock-full of stunning women who want to end their gender’s right to control their own bodies. Homely middle-aged men are just going to have to find another sex to push around.

Live Action hired an actor who posed as a pimp and told Planned Parenthood counselors that he might have contracted a sexually transmitted disease from “one of the girls I manage.” He followed up with questions about how to obtain contraceptives and abortions, while indicating that some of his “girls” were under age and illegally in the country.

One counselor, shockingly, gave the “pimp” advice on how to game the system and was summarily fired when the video came out. But the others seem to have answered his questions accurately and flatly. Planned Parenthood says that after the man left, all the counselors — including the one who was fired — reported the conversation to their supervisors, who called the authorities. (One Arizona police department, the organization said, refused to file a report.)

Still, there is no way to look good while providing useful information to a self-proclaimed child molester, even if the cops get called. That, presumably, is why Live Action chose the scenario.

The truth is that Lila Rose could not care less about real child slavery. Using actors playing pimps and prostitutes is a cynical trick, as Collins points out, to smear an organization that helps millions of low-income women every day. But Rose’s fanatical religious views tell her it’s fine to lie, distort, and fabricate evidence if it furthers the cause of destroying women’s rights.

Rose is an extremist, and more than a little unhinged, and it’s a disgrace that the media pay any attention to her cheap, ugly smear tactics. Here she is at the religious right’s Values Voter Summit in 2009, advocating that abortions should be done “in the public square,” because it would let us hear the angels sing.

Youtube Video

Gail Collins says it well:

There are tens of millions Americans who oppose abortion because of deeply held moral principles. But they’re attached to a political movement that sometimes seems to have come unmoored from any concern for life after birth.

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469 comments
1 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:00:10pm

Did this backfire when they tried it on Acorn?

I forget, their base never learned that.

2 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:01:54pm

Because it worked: they took ACORN down. They wanna do the same to Planned Parenthood, and then to Roe vs Wade.

That was their agenda when they supported Reagan in 1980, they have not lost sight of it since, they are now full on the offensive.

3 iossarian  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:02:06pm

re: #1 ggt

Did this backfire when they tried it on Acorn?

I forget, their base never learned that.

It didn’t backfire at all - ACORN was essentially destroyed, even though the investigation basically exonerated them.

Fucking fuckers. People set up organizations to help the most needy, and these fucking fuckers just come along and screw them over so that their daddies can pay 0.5% less in capital gains tax.

Fuckers.

4 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:02:19pm

re: #1 ggt

Did this backfire when they tried it on Acorn?

I forget, their base never learned that.

Actually, it didn’t backfire. It was widely accepted, and ACORN was pretty much destroyed.

5 Lidane  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:02:39pm
There are tens of millions Americans who oppose abortion because of deeply held moral principles. But they’re attached to a political movement that sometimes seems to have come unmoored from any concern for life after birth.

Dear Gail,

That’s because there is no concern for life after birth for these whackjob anti-abortion nutbars. It’s why they also oppose welfare, Medicaid, school lunch programs, and a whole host of other things that help poor and low-income families raise their kids.

All they give a shit about is controlling women and forcing them to follow the same hateful religion that has them cowering in fear.

Regards,
Me

6 iossarian  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:03:44pm

re: #5 Lidane

Yeah, I’ve had it with the lip-service to “deeply-held moral principles”.

The bastards who blow up innocent people in the name of religion have those principles too.

7 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:04:23pm

Time to start my donations to Planned Parenthood again.

8 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:04:33pm

Little by little, religion destroys itself by alienating actual people.

I wish it would happen faster.

9 calochortus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:04:37pm

I have been seeing more interest amongst the wingnuts about human trafficking lately-at least in subject lines. The discussion always seems to be about abortion. Now I’d be happy to see them taking up the actual issue of trafficking, but apparently its a cynical attempt to use human misery to attack Planned Parenthood and actual rights for women.

10 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:04:51pm

re: #1 ggt

Did this backfire when they tried it on Acorn?

I forget, their base never learned that.

No, ACORN worked. You are thinking about Shirley Sherrod incident when they went after the NAACP.

11 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:05:33pm

re: #9 calochortus

I have been seeing more interest amongst the wingnuts about human trafficking lately-at least in subject lines. The discussion always seems to be about abortion. Now I’d be happy to see them taking up the actual issue of trafficking, but apparently its a cynical attempt to use human misery to attack Planned Parenthood and actual rights for women.

I still want to know why these people don’t go after Kaiser or Blue Shield.

12 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:05:44pm

re: #10 moderatelyradicalliberal

Even that worked to a degree, Sherrod got fired, the administration was embarassed by its knee-jerk overreaction.

13 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:05:58pm

re: #7 ggt

Time to start my donations to Planned Parenthood again.

+1 and I’m calling to see if they need volunteers.

14 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:06:52pm

You can also like them on facebook. Their profile pic says “I stand with Planned Parenthood.”

The donation form is on the front page.

15 Gus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:07:12pm

Ridicule should be done in the public square. We can start with Lila Rose.

16 calochortus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:07:32pm

re: #11 SanFranciscoZionist

I still want to know why these people don’t go after Kaiser or Blue Shield.

I’m guessing its easier to nibble around the margins than go after Big Medicine.

17 RadicalModerate  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:08:07pm

I mentioned this in the LGF Pages article, and it bears repeating here:

Lila Rose is a personal friend of, and compatriot of convicted criminal (and notorious fake-video producer) James O’Keefe. In fact, he worked with her on several of her Planned Parenthood “exposes” in the past.

From her Wiki Biography:

At the age of 15, Rose founded Live Action and began giving presentations to schools and youth groups.[1] She and her friend, fellow conservative activist James O’Keefe III found inspiration in activist Saul Alinsky’s grassroots organizing handbook “Rules for Radicals”.[1] After having been further inspired by Texas activist Mark Crutcher’s taping of fake calls to Planned Parenthood clinics featuring women posing as pregnant minors, they came up with the idea to visit Planned Parenthood clinics wearing secret video cameras in fall 2006. Since then, Rose has conducted stings at Planned Parenthood clinics in Los Angeles, Indianapolis, Bloomington, Tucson, Phoenix and Memphis.[1]

18 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:08:20pm

re: #13 moderatelyradicalliberal

+1 and I’m calling to see if they need volunteers.

I’ve volunteered a few times to escort women from their cars to the front door, and hold back “protesters”. Unfortunately, in PA there is pretty much perpetual “protest” at several P.P. centers in the area. It literally never stops.

19 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:08:34pm

re: #12 ralphieboy

Even that worked to a degree, Sherrod got fired, the administration was embarassed by its knee-jerk overreaction.

But, the mistakes and the tactics used to create the mess was caught relatively quickly. Sherrod was exonerated much faster than ACORN and no allegations of racism by the NAACP was proved. Breitbart is still a player, but he does not have the same clout he did before. I haven’t seem these videos getting the same exposure as the ACORN stuff.

20 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:08:43pm

I’m horrible at facebook. I’d like to have that profile “I stand with Planned Parenthood” on my front page. Can I do that any other way than by making it my profile pic?

21 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:10:45pm

IMO, all these anti-women’s rights movements on the right have nothing to do with saving lives, justice, or anything like that. It is all about controlling a woman’s sexuality.

22 calochortus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:11:10pm

Interesting comment from Ms. Rose about the fetus being valued as we value a one year old child just learning to walk. I guess that would be requiring the fetus to stand on his own two feet and earn a living?

23 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:11:32pm

re: #18 Fozzie Bear

I’ve volunteered a few times to escort women from their cars to the front door, and hold back “protesters”. Unfortunately, in PA there is pretty much perpetual “protest” at several P.P. centers in the area. It literally never stops.

There’s nothing like sitting in a waiting room, filling out forms while some guy with a bullhorn screams “Spare Your Child” over and over outside. Really. Nothing.

24 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:13:03pm

I guess Lila Rose is a pure as the driven snow?

25 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:13:04pm

Planned Parenthood aids and abets

perhaps buffy mcsmug here might find that she will have to deal with some difficult problems without simple answers sometime in her life

26 recusancy  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:13:04pm

re: #16 calochortus

I’m guessing its easier to nibble around the margins than go after Big Medicine.

No, big health is on the wingnuts side. Florida just elected this former a big health exec and current douchebag. It’s the same principle in going after poor people who wanted to buy homes rather then the unscrupulous lenders and wall streeters.

27 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:14:13pm

re: #26 recusancy

No, big health is on the wingnuts side. Florida just elected this former a big health exec and current douchebag. It’s the same principle in going after poor people who wanted to buy homes rather then the unscrupulous lenders and wall streeters.

Most people punch down and not up.

28 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:14:21pm

Oddly enough, my personal experience with Planned Parenthood as a patient was as a direct result of my connections to the Catholic Church. I used them for GYN care when I was on the USF student healthcare plan, since the USF student healthcare plan wouldn’t prescribe birth control.

29 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:14:58pm

re: #25 engineer dog

Planned Parenthood aids and abets

perhaps buffy mcsmug here might find that she will have to deal with some difficult problems without simple answers sometime in her life

She will have to qualms about seeking an abortion for herself should the need arise, because she’s a spayshul snowflake.

30 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:15:18pm

re: #24 ggt

I guess Lila Rose is a pure as the driven snow?

Professionally. Also, she looks like a Raphael madonna, which doesn’t hurt her activist career none.

31 calochortus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:15:51pm

re: #26 recusancy

Yes, but I’m guessing abortions are cheaper than childbirth for insurers. Plus, they are dealing with people with insurance and often some financial resources as well as the name of a good lawyer. Might give them pause. Remember, its the poor who are immoral and undeserving, not regular Americans.//

32 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:15:59pm

re: #29 Alouette

She will have to NO qualms about seeking an abortion for herself should the need arise, because she’s a spayshul snowflake.

PIMF

33 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:16:10pm

There was some taaa-do when the local Planned Parenthood opened. A while later there was an article in the paper quoting some of their statistics. Actually quite impressive.

I have to wonder at those who think that nothing but abortions happen at Planned Parenthood. Did they think the stats were ficticious?

The abortion to other services ratio was really low.

34 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:16:16pm

re: #28 SanFranciscoZionist

Oddly enough, my personal experience with Planned Parenthood as a patient was as a direct result of my connections to the Catholic Church. I used them for GYN care when I was on the USF student healthcare plan, since the USF student healthcare plan wouldn’t prescribe birth control.

I did ask if they would make an exception if I got a note from my rabbi. My doctor thought that was funny, but no.

35 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:17:22pm

re: #28 SanFranciscoZionist

I just don’t get the catholic take on birth control. It’s the cause of so much suffering. How many billions have been born into squalor because of well-intentioned idiots like Mother Theresa?

Not all potential must be realized. The planet is already overflowing with “realized potential”.

36 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:17:30pm

re: #34 SanFranciscoZionist

I did ask if they would make an exception if I got a note from my rabbi. My doctor thought that was funny, but no.

But it’s ok in my religion. LOL!

37 Ming  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:17:52pm

This would be funny, if it didn’t impact people’s lives with such devastation. This post talks about anti-abortion activists who would outlaw abortions even after a week or two of pregnancy. And the very next blog post, immediately below this one, is about anti-birth control activists who want to restrict access to contraception. Well, elementary logic would say that if you really are concerned about all abortions, you would naturally want to make contraceptives widely available, so fewer abortions would occur (for that matter, fewer miscarriages, which are also tragic, would occur). But here we have the same people 100% committed to outlawing contraception, and outlawing abortion. (And of course, all this would be done without any government spending.)

38 recusancy  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:18:16pm

re: #27 moderatelyradicalliberal

Most people punch down and not up.

The tea party phenomenon started on the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange with a self righteous rant from an overprivileged CNBC trader/reporter.

39 Gus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:18:29pm

In most cases Planned Parenthood is the only place for women (and some men) to turn. If there was no Planned Parenthood there would be no alternative for these people. And PP is not only about providing abortion services. The goal of these extremists is to shut down PP and return America to an era long gone.

40 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:18:30pm

re: #35 Fozzie Bear

I just don’t get the catholic take on birth control. It’s the cause of so much suffering. How many billions have been born into squalor because of well-intentioned idiots like Mother Theresa?

Not all potential must be realized. The planet is already overflowing with “realized potential”.

It would put women in control. There is no theological explanation that goes beyond a tap dance.

41 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:18:37pm

re: #37 Ming


Two words: ABSTINENCE ONLY

42 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:19:19pm

re: #41 ralphieboy

Two words: ABSTINENCE ONLY

Fuck abstinence! (Irony intended)

43 theheat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:19:29pm

This is the short answer to why we (theheat family) donate financially and support Planned Parenthood: it’s one of the last holdouts of reason for women’s reproductive rights and health, particularly of assistance to less fortunate and low income. Medical exams, screening, pregnancy testing, referral services - Planned Parenthood has been providing those services for years and years.

If supporting PP makes me a bleeding heart liberal, so be it.

44 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:19:30pm

Well, the Virginia AG is already promising to investigate Planned Parenthood ( hate linking to Big Government, so sorry about that, feel free to just google “Planned Parenthood Virginia AG”) for their open “willingness to participate in support sex trafficking of minors.”

Smear campaigns become very intimidating and effective when you can have a partisan AG with an agenda and an excuse.

45 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:20:00pm

re: #41 ralphieboy

Two words: ABSTINENCE ONLY

for good girls, the boys go to the red-light district.

46 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:21:05pm

re: #38 recusancy

The tea party phenomenon started on the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange with a self righteous rant from an overprivileged CNBC trader/reporter.

Yeah. I think it was Santelli or something. He punched down and not at his fellow Wall Streeters. And the TPer never once marched on Wall Street to protest the bank bailout. They blamed the same people and institutions they already hated and blamed for everything.

Punching down and not up.

47 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:21:07pm
There are tens of millions Americans who oppose abortion because of deeply held moral principles. But they’re attached to a political movement that sometimes seems to have come unmoored from any concern for life after birth.

Quoted for truth.

48 calochortus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:21:40pm

I have never been able to figure out why some religions consider fertility the only field that medicine should not involve itself in. Why isn’t it thwarting God’s will to use antibiotics?

49 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:21:55pm

re: #44 bloodstar

Well, the Virginia AG is already promising to investigate Planned Parenthood ( hate linking to Big Government, so sorry about that, feel free to just google “Planned Parenthood Virginia AG”) for their open “willingness to participate in support sex trafficking of minors.”

Smear campaigns become very intimidating and effective when you can have a partisan AG with an agenda and an excuse.

Virginia should be ashamed of itself for electing that guy. He is truly awful.

50 KingKenrod  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:21:56pm

re: #35 Fozzie Bear

I just don’t get the catholic take on birth control. It’s the cause of so much suffering. How many billions have been born into squalor because of well-intentioned idiots like Mother Theresa?

Not all potential must be realized. The planet is already overflowing with “realized potential”.

Just a guess, but it probably originated in the idea that there should be plenty of little Catholics to help spread Catholicism. The same way the modern anti-abortion movement in the US started as a nativist response to mass immigration after the Civil War. You don’t want to cede some future generation to “others”.

51 Querent  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:22:09pm

WTF.

(facepalm)

52 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:22:46pm

re: #48 calochortus

I have never been able to figure out why some religions consider fertility the only field that medicine should not involve itself in. Why isn’t it thwarting God’s will to use antibiotics?

Because God is only concerned about multi-celluar organisms?
/

53 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:22:56pm

re: #37 Ming

The goal is to slowly outlaw everything until only in-wedlock reproductive sex is legal.

54 Querent  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:23:05pm

re: #3 iossarian
Don’t hold back — tell us how you REALLY feel.

55 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:23:11pm

re: #48 calochortus

I have never been able to figure out why some religions consider fertility the only field that medicine should not involve itself in. Why isn’t it thwarting God’s will to use antibiotics?

Practically and medical intervention could be considered thwarting God’s will, but pregnancy provides a unique opportunity to attempt to control women.

56 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:23:46pm

re: #53 prononymous

The goal is to slowly outlaw everything until only in-wedlock reproductive sex is legal for women.

FTFY

57 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:23:59pm

re: #50 KingKenrod

Just a guess, but it probably originated in the idea that.

The original theological notion is that the more souls there are, the more souls there are to be saved and brough to the Lord.

Contraception is preventing souls from getting to heaven.

Although I suppose that aborted babies have a special pass into heaven. They count as being “baptized” by amniotic fluid, I guess.

58 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:24:18pm

re: #42 Fozzie Bear

Fuck abstinence! (Irony intended)

YEAH

59 calochortus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:24:57pm

re: #55 moderatelyradicalliberal

And that’s what the good Lord wants.//

60 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:25:01pm

re: #56 oaktree

FTFY

Have to make sure the baby your wife delivers is really yours. Because the continuation of your bloodline trumps her (God-given) civil rights.

61 RadicalModerate  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:25:30pm

re: #45 ggt

for good girls, the boys go to the red-light district.

Either that, or farm animals live in constant fear.
newshounds.us

62 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:25:33pm

re: #57 ralphieboy

The original theological notion is that the more souls there are, the more souls there are to be saved and brough to the Lord.

Contraception is preventing souls from getting to heaven.

Although I suppose that aborted babies have a special pass into heaven. They count as being “baptized” by amniotic fluid, I guess.

i think they go to Limbo, unless they were baptized … . .

63 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:26:10pm

re: #56 oaktree

FTFY

Thanks.

I’m not so sure it needs the qualifier though. They can be just as controlling of male sexuality.

64 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:26:12pm

re: #47 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Love your new Avatar!

65 makeitstop  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:26:30pm

Quick question: What is the difference-maker regarding this woman’s finding ‘inspiration’ in ‘Rules For Radicals’ and the Right’s blanket condemnation of all things Alinsky?

NVM, the question answers itself. The ends justify the means after all.

66 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:26:33pm

re: #50 KingKenrod

Just a guess, but it probably originated in the idea that there should be plenty of little Catholics to help spread Catholicism. The same way the modern anti-abortion movement in the US started as a nativist response to mass immigration after the Civil War. You don’t want to cede some future generation to “others”.

True. in early America, it’s believed 1 in every 7 pregnancies was aborted. The modern anti abortion movement was motivated by fear that WASPs weren’t having enough native born babies and that the US would be swamped by the children of immigrants. I always like to mention that when a pro-lifer tells me that Planned Parenthood was founded to kill black babies. It normally shuts them up real fast.

67 calochortus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:27:19pm

re: #57 ralphieboy

The original theological notion is that the more souls there are, the more souls there are to be saved and brough to the Lord.

Contraception is preventing souls from getting to heaven.

Although I suppose that aborted babies have a special pass into heaven. They count as being “baptized” by amniotic fluid, I guess.

I’m not Catholic, but I don’t think that would be the case historically. C-sections were done in the medieval world when the mother was dead to get the fetus out and get it baptized while still alive. Unbaptized babies and fetuses didn’t get a special pass into heaven.

68 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:27:49pm

re: #62 ggt

i think they go to Limbo, unless they were baptized …

That was the Catholic idea until fairly recently. They screwed up limbo, and have a state of confusion—not a good thing for an “Eternal” church.

69 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:28:30pm

re: #68 Decatur Deb

That was the Catholic idea until fairly recently. They screwed up limbo, and have a state of confusion—not a good thing for an “Eternal” church.

What happens now?

70 Querent  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:28:33pm

re: #57 ralphieboy

The original theological notion is that the more souls there are, the more souls there are to be saved and brough to the Lord.

Contraception is preventing souls from getting to heaven.

Although I suppose that aborted babies have a special pass into heaven. They count as being “baptized” by amniotic fluid, I guess.

Quoted for the lightbulbs going on. I’ve thought that for years.

71 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:29:00pm

re: #68 Decatur Deb

That was the Catholic idea until fairly recently. They screwed up limbo, and have a state of confusion—not a good thing for an “Eternal” church.

It was an awful and cruel doctrine to begin with.

72 calochortus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:30:09pm

Time to get some lunch and do something more constructive than sitting here solving the world’s problems.

73 Summer Seale  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:30:27pm

Hello, my name is Lila Rose.

I think everyone is special. I’m just a young girl but I can see that already because everyone is special deep inside. I just wish we could all hug and make everyone remember that we’re so deeply special and loved.

America is such a special place and I’m so happy because I live in this country. But terrible things are being done in the name of America which are hurting the little baby Jesus, who loves us all and wants to hug us and make us feel how special we are.

I think all Americans should hug Jesus, and then abortions will go away, because Jesus doesn’t like abortions. Jesus is a special little baby who cries with the angels anytime there is an abortion in the world. And I should know, because I hug him each and every day like every good American should.

When I look out among the faces here, I see so many special people who make my special day even more special with love and prayer. And I can’t imagine how anyone, not influenced by Satan himself, would want to leave their beautiful two story home with a white picket fence and the comfort of their loving family to go to the death-den and get their baby ripped from their womb.

Why can’t people just have the baby? Why can’t their mommies and daddies help them to take care of it? Of course, every mommy and daddy is going to try because Jesus loves us and our parents always are there for us, no matter what. Only people who don’t love Jesus would leave all that love and comfort to go and hurt themselves and kill their babies - people who think they don’t have an option.

But people do have an option. People always have an option with $400,000/year, and that’s all it takes. And I’m sure that every family can manage that when they’re loved by Jesus. I’m sure that if we just change the minds of every American, everyone will want to stay in their beautiful home with their good salary and job and their loving parents, and nobody will ever be unhappy again.

It’s just that simple. It’s so simple because it’s in the Bible and Jesus said so. Life is just all so much love and we need to recognize that the angels are telling this to us day and night when they protect us in our sleep and against the evil in the world.

So can’t we just change the world like this? Let’s take down Satan’s minions together and return to our homes, happy and loved.

God Bless America.

Thank you,

Lila Rose.

74 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:30:30pm

re: #62 ggt

i think they go to Limbo, unless they were baptized …

Limbo was discontinued, IIRC.

75 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:30:52pm

re: #71 moderatelyradicalliberal

It was an awful and cruel doctrine to begin with.

A Catholic School lay teacher told our class that the babies don’t stay in Limbo forever. Eventually they made it to heaven. She said that she didn’t believe God would deny an innocent baby heaven.

I don’t know how she got that by the upper-ups or if they ever knew.

76 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:30:58pm

re: #69 ggt

What happens now?

Different theologians, different answers. It’s not completely gelled. Haven’t looked in a year or so, this is like the Handsome Lake religion to me now.

77 Querent  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:30:59pm

re: #72 calochortus
What, you think the worl’d problems can solve themselves?

/i don’t have enough sarc tags

78 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:31:14pm

re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist

Limbo was discontinued, IIRC.

Did the bar eventually get set too low to get in?
//

79 Querent  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:32:40pm

re: #73 Summer
upding because you just make me laugh out loud and spill my drink all over the Czarbuck$ floor.

But thanks, i needed that!

80 Lidane  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:33:10pm

re: #17 RadicalModerate

From her Wiki Biography:

She and her friend, fellow conservative activist James O’Keefe III found inspiration in activist Saul Alinsky’s grassroots organizing handbook “Rules for Radicals”.

ALINSKY!

81 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:33:21pm

re: #76 Decatur Deb

Different theologians, different answers. It’s not completely gelled. Haven’t looked in a year or so, this is like the Handsome Lake religion to me now.

So, no more limbo.

The souls that were in limbo or would be are now in what? a holding-pattern?

Oh, there has to be an SNL skit in this.

82 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:33:43pm

re: #71 moderatelyradicalliberal

It was an awful and cruel doctrine to begin with.

Nah. Limbo was a neutral place of timeless waiting, with a free pass at the Second Coming. (There actually were two Catholic Limbos, the first was emptied just before the Resurrection.)

83 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:33:48pm

re: #79 Querent

upding because you just make me laugh out loud and spill my drink all over the Czarbuck$ floor.

But thanks, i needed that!

I’m waiting for the mix-up post from Sarah Rose and/or Lila Palin.

84 sagehen  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:34:00pm

re: #6 iossarian

Yeah, I’ve had it with the lip-service to “deeply-held moral principles”.

The bastards who blow up innocent people in the name of religion have those principles too.

One of my favoritist ever signs at a rally was “Al Qaeda is a faith-based initiative.”

85 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:34:28pm

re: #75 ggt

A Catholic School lay teacher told our class that the babies don’t stay in Limbo forever. Eventually they made it to heaven. She said that she didn’t believe God would deny an innocent baby heaven.

I don’t know how she got that by the upper-ups or if they ever knew.

I had the glorious experience this winter of being asked in religion class by a student if suicides went to hell. One of the women who taught the after-school program killed herself the night before school started.

86 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:34:37pm

re: #82 Decatur Deb

Nah. Limbo was a neutral place of timeless waiting, with a free pass at the Second Coming. (There actually were two Catholic Limbos, the first was emptied just before the Resurrection.)

I’m getting of a Bettlejuice afterlife.

“Coach, we missed the bus” .… .

87 Querent  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:34:39pm

re: #83 oaktree

I’m waiting for the mix-up post from Sarah Rose and/or Lila Palin.


Wingnut Mad-Libs!

88 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:35:13pm

re: #17 RadicalModerate

I mentioned this in the LGF Pages article, and it bears repeating here:

Lila Rose is a personal friend of, and compatriot of convicted criminal (and notorious fake-video producer) James O’Keefe. In fact, he worked with her on several of her Planned Parenthood “exposes” in the past.

From her Wiki Biography:

So the only people in America who are influenced by Alinsky are his detractors? I swear everything the far right accused liberals of is actually just a projection.

89 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:36:00pm

re: #73 Summer

Summer, I think I love you.

90 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:36:47pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

I had the glorious experience this winter of being asked in religion class by a student if suicides went to hell. One of the women who taught the after-school program killed herself the night before school started.

Mentally Ill people are not responsible for their actions. God will not judge them harshly.

My standard response.

It feels really weird to have to come-up with answers for things I don’t really believe. (I don’t think there is life after death). But, it is the best I could do in the situation.

91 abbyadams  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:37:25pm

re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist

Yup. Went to have our child baptized in 2005, was told “no one really believes in limbo any more” by the priest. Far cry from my own first foray into the world, in which my paternal grandmother sent a vial of holy water with my dad when they took me at 3 days to see my maternal (Protestant) grandparents. In case of car accident, my salvation was there, in one ounce of liquid.

I’m not picking on my grandma, by the way, who was soundly rejected by the church she loved, because she divorced my grandfather who always ran around on her, and left her at age 21 with 3 young boys and no means of income. She was never allowed to take communion again, but went every Sunday with her handkerchief on her head to hide herself from God.

There is reason why I can’t call myself Catholic anymore.

92 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:37:41pm

re: #82 Decatur Deb

Nah. Limbo was a neutral place of timeless waiting, with a free pass at the Second Coming. (There actually were two Catholic Limbos, the first was emptied just before the Resurrection.)

It’s still an extension of the horrific idea that anyone who hasn’t been baptized can’t get into heaven. Especially, when you consider how high infant mortality was when the doctrine was first introduced.

93 Lidane  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:38:54pm

It never ends with these assholes:

motherjones.com

The first doctor to try to offer abortion services in Wichita, Kansas, since Dr. George Tiller was gunned down in a church in May 2009 has been blocked from doing so—by her landlord, who has claimed this would create a “nuisance.” And groups opposed to abortion rights are hailing this development as a major win on a prominent frontline in the national war over abortion.

Dr. Mila Means is a family practitioner in Wichita, and since last year she has been preparing to provide abortion services there. (She has been undergoing training with Kansas City abortion provider, Aid for Women.) But on Monday, a state judge issued a temporary restraining order barring Means from performing abortions at her medical office or making any changes to the facility that would allow her to do so. Judge Jeffrey Goering granted this order at the behest of Foliage Development, Inc., the owner of the building that houses Means’ office.

94 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:39:17pm

Breitbart’s calling out his hounds on Twitter. He takes the bait every time.

95 abbyadams  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:39:25pm

re: #92 moderatelyradicalliberal

I believe people used to be instructed to pray for all those in limbo, which was heaven’s waiting room.

96 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:39:40pm

re: #92 moderatelyradicalliberal

It’s still an extension of the horrific idea that anyone who hasn’t been baptized can’t get into heaven. Especially, when you consider how high infant mortality was when the doctrine was first introduced.

It’s an extension of the horribly ignorant idea that there is a heaven, hell or any sort of god.

97 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:39:42pm

re: #91 abbyadams

Sounds like my grandma, who ran off with my mom and aunt Helen, divorced, remarried and had my uncle Gabe with my step-granddad. She was also denied the sacraments.

98 sagehen  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:39:48pm

re: #35 Fozzie Bear

I just don’t get the catholic take on birth control. It’s the cause of so much suffering. How many billions have been born into squalor because of well-intentioned idiots like Mother Theresa?

Not all potential must be realized. The planet is already overflowing with “realized potential”.

My view is that yes, God did say “go forth and multiply”… but now that there’s 7 million of us, perhaps it’s time to check that off the to-do list.

I’m pretty sure it’s no coincidence that China’s astounding economic growth, improved standard of living and increasing relevance as a world power kicked into gear only half a generation after they instituted their one-child policy.

99 theheat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:41:17pm

re: #98 sagehen

Not to mention, most are not sucked into planning their lives around dark ages religious dogma.

100 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:41:18pm

re: #98 sagehen

My view is that yes, God did say “go forth and multiply”… but now that there’s 7 million of us, perhaps it’s time to check that off the to-do list.

I’m pretty sure it’s no coincidence that China’s astounding economic growth, improved standard of living and increasing relevance as a world power kicked into gear only half a generation after they instituted their one-child policy.

Yes, but don’t you see …

Even having abortions legally available is just a slippery slope to (socialism).

/gah!

101 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:41:56pm

re: #98 sagehen

My view is that yes, God did say “go forth and multiply”… but now that there’s 7 million of us, perhaps it’s time to check that off the to-do list.

I’m pretty sure it’s no coincidence that China’s astounding economic growth, improved standard of living and increasing relevance as a world power kicked into gear only half a generation after they instituted their one-child policy.

It can’t be that. God wouldn’t reward godless heathens who flaunt his will so openly…

:p

//

102 sagehen  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:42:22pm

re: #48 calochortus

I have never been able to figure out why some religions consider fertility the only field that medicine should not involve itself in. Why isn’t it thwarting God’s will to use antibiotics?

Or pacemakers.

Apparently it was God’s will that Dick Cheney die 20 years ago. He had a point.

103 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:42:33pm

re: #92 moderatelyradicalliberal

It’s still an extension of the horrific idea that anyone who hasn’t been baptized can’t get into heaven. Especially, when you consider how high infant mortality was when the doctrine was first introduced.

Catholic Heaven is sort of a closed shop, though actually there is an out for naturally virtuous non-Catholics. The medieval church sometimes talked of “Saint Plato”, and there is a church in Venice named “Santo Moise” (Holy Moses).
The virtuous heathens (precious few) were in the first pre-Christ Limbo, and the latecomers got slots in the second.

104 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:43:31pm

re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist

Limbo was discontinued, IIRC.

I’m still chuckling.

So, when a product is discontinued it goes on the Clearance Shelf.

You can get Limbo for 75% off now days?

teehee

105 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:43:54pm

re: #90 ggt

Mentally Ill people are not responsible for their actions. God will not judge them harshly.

My standard response.

It feels really weird to have to come-up with answers for things I don’t really believe. (I don’t think there is life after death). But, it is the best I could do in the situation.

I told the kids that I don’t believe that God would punish anyone for something done while they were in so much emotional pain. The eighth-grade teacher, who has an actual degree in Catholic theology told me that was fine.

He also pointed me to Matthew 24, which he points out is the only place where Jesus says anything about who goes to hell.

106 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:44:00pm

re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist

Limbo was discontinued, IIRC.

No, he is still broadcasting behind the “golden microphone”

107 iossarian  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:44:40pm

re: #102 sagehen

Or pacemakers.

Apparently it was God’s will that Dick Cheney die 20 years ago. He had a point.

Ha! What a fantastic opportunity for me to flaunt my holier-than-thouness. Observe the master in action:

“As much as I find it amusing to poke fun at Republicans, I still cannot bring myself to wish ill on anyone, even Darth, I mean Dick Cheney.”

108 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:44:46pm

re: #103 Decatur Deb

Catholic Heaven is sort of a closed shop, though actually there is an out for naturally virtuous non-Catholics. The medieval church sometimes talked of “Saint Plato”, and there is a church in Venice named “Santo Moise” (Holy Moses).
The virtuous heathens (precious few) were in the first pre-Christ Limbo, and the latecomers got slots in the second.

but what about the grassy knoll?

The BS is thick.

109 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:44:55pm

re: #92 moderatelyradicalliberal

It’s still an extension of the horrific idea that anyone who hasn’t been baptized can’t get into heaven. Especially, when you consider how high infant mortality was when the doctrine was first introduced.

In all but the most liberal interpretations of Christianity, more people have gone to hell than have gone to heaven.

In addition to having some of the most interesting people to hang out with, Hell is going to have the bigger army come the apocalypse. I get to be on the winning side AND hang out with some seriously cool people? I know where I want to go when I die! /

110 webevintage  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:45:36pm

I’m really getting tired of these self-promoting fuckwits calling themselves activists.
Maybe this Lila Rose really does love the bah-bays, maybe she has a baby fetish and will one day surround herself with tons o’ kids until her uterus falls out.
(but probably not, I have a feeling Lila secretly has a prescription for the pill like most of us)
But for now she is a grifter using her looks along with extreme rhetoric/tactics to make money and create a career for herself.

If you don’t like abortion don’t have one, but for God’s sake stay the fuck out of the personal business of the rest of the women of this country.

111 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:45:58pm

re: #97 ralphieboy

Sounds like my grandma, who ran off with my mom and aunt Helen, divorced, remarried and had my uncle Gabe with my step-granddad. She was also denied the sacraments.

My grandmother divorced, remarried, and told my mother at one point that she was a ‘fallen Catholic’. (Her mother had also divorced, which took some goddamn guts for a Catholic woman in Fresno, CA in the 1920s.)

My grandma wouldn’t leave, however, and eventually the Church got back around to her.

What these women went through…damn.

112 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:46:24pm

re: #103 Decatur Deb

Catholic Heaven is sort of a closed shop, though actually there is an out for naturally virtuous non-Catholics. The medieval church sometimes talked of “Saint Plato”, and there is a church in Venice named “Santo Moise” (Holy Moses).
The virtuous heathens (precious few) were in the first pre-Christ Limbo, and the latecomers got slots in the second.

I don’t understand how this is supposed to be an improvement on Pharisaic Judaism, which teaches that everyone (Jewish or not) has an equal shot.

113 mikefromArlington  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:46:31pm

Life is sacred! Until you’re born.

Then you’re on your own.

114 webevintage  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:46:40pm

re: #105 SanFranciscoZionist

I told the kids that I don’t believe that God would punish anyone for something done while they were in so much emotional pain. The eighth-grade teacher, who has an actual degree in Catholic theology told me that was fine.

He also pointed me to Matthew 24, which he points out is the only place where Jesus says anything about who goes to hell.

God is a God of mercy if nothing else….

115 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:46:48pm

re: #102 sagehen

Or pacemakers.

Apparently it was God’s will that Dick Cheney die 20 years ago. He had a point.

Great. Now I have an image of Peter Stormare appearing, putting a pacemaker in Dick Cheney and then disappearing in a puff of smoke while laughing hysterically.

116 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:47:41pm

re: #108 ggt

but what about the grassy knoll?

The BS is thick.

If you give a few million priests and monks 400 pages of manuscript and 2000 years, you’re going to get some elaboration.

117 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:47:44pm

re: #110 webevintage

I’m really getting tired of these self-promoting fuckwits calling themselves activists.
Maybe this Lila Rose really does love the bah-bays, maybe she has a baby fetish and will one day surround herself with tons o’ kids until her uterus falls out.
(but probably not, I have a feeling Lila secretly has a prescription for the pill like most of us)
But for now she is a grifter using her looks along with extreme rhetoric/tactics to make money and create a career for herself.

If you don’t like abortion don’t have one, but for God’s sake stay the fuck out of the personal business of the rest of the women of this country.

You’re giving “theheat” a run for her money in the “best rants” category.

118 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:48:12pm

re: #98 sagehen

My view is that yes, God did say “go forth and multiply”… but now that there’s 7 million of us, perhaps it’s time to check that off the to-do list.

There was a Jewish woman in seventeenth-century Iraq, Asenath Barazani, who was famous as a scholar. The legend is that she had a son and a daughter, and then prayed to stop menstruating, so she could be free to focus on Torah without raising a large family.

Children are wonderful. Grown-ups doing what they’re meant to do is also wonderful.

119 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:48:45pm

re: #112 Alouette

I don’t understand how this is supposed to be an improvement on Pharisaic Judaism, which teaches that everyone (Jewish or not) has an equal shot.

Keeps the troops in line.

120 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:48:50pm

re: #114 webevintage

God is a God of mercy if nothing else…

There are some who are still trying to make God into a God of petty legalism and points of dogma and doctrine.

It is only a reflection of the nature of these very people…

121 webevintage  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:49:54pm

re: #117 wrenchwench

You’re giving “theheat” a run for her money in the “best rants” category.

I blush….

122 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:50:33pm

I gotta go.

have a great afternoon all!

123 celticdragon  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:50:45pm

re: #5 Lidane

Dear Gail,

That’s because there is no concern for life after birth for these whackjob anti-abortion nutbars. It’s why they also oppose welfare, Medicaid, school lunch programs, and a whole host of other things that help poor and low-income families raise their kids.

All they give a shit about is controlling women and forcing them to follow the same hateful religion that has them cowering in fear.

Regards,
Me

Remember! Poor people are like stray animals. Feeding them just encourages them to breed…

124 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:52:02pm

Andrew Breitbart says he wants to “debate” me. To show the kind of debate he has in mind, here’s his tweet:

I’ll debate @lizardoid any place, any time. All proceeds go to ‘Get the Stuff Outta Charles Johnson’s Crustacean-Encrusted Ponytail Fund’

Breitbart’s tactic is to call out his sycophantic followers by retweeting my posts, and they predictably respond with dim-witted abuse. It’s an idiot’s chorus.

125 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:53:08pm

re: #123 celticdragon

Remember! Poor people are like stray animals. Feeding them just encourages them to breed…

Remember the lillies of the field…

126 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:53:45pm

OK, so let’s please recap.

Recently the GOP has:

Attempted to redefine rape in a thinly veiled attempt to force women to carry rape pregnancies to term.

Attempted to allow hospitals the “right” to refuse emergency abortions.

Attempted to prevent brith control measures.

And on their network Fox, scantily clad women sell their propaganda.

Wonder why I call them utterly misogynist?

127 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:53:45pm

re: #118 SanFranciscoZionist

There was a Jewish woman in seventeenth-century Iraq, Asenath Barazani, who was famous as a scholar. The legend is that she had a son and a daughter, and then prayed to stop menstruating, so she could be free to focus on Torah without raising a large family.

Children are wonderful. Grown-ups doing what they’re meant to do is also wonderful.

My grandmother used to nag me: “You’re pregnant again! Get an abortion! Get birth control pills! Get your tubes tied! Get a hysterectomy!”

She said this with every kid (except for the first one). Even #2 came too soon after #2.

She was such a bitch about this that none of my kids wanted to name any of their kids after her, except for one throwaway middle name.

Meanwhile, at my dad’s funeral, my mother was so comforted when 6 of my grown kids came, including all the way from Israel. She said she used to be so worried that I raised such a large family, but now that they are all adults it’s a lot of fun when everyone gets together.

My youngest daughter is 23 and not at all interested in settling down. For some reason this doesn’t bother me at all. :)

128 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:54:12pm

re: #124 Charles

He’s a good contender for ‘Limpest Insult of the Year’.

129 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:54:18pm

re: #125 ralphieboy

Remember the lillies of the field…

Where I lived the day lillies of the field got eaten by the white-tailed deer.

130 blueraven  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:54:41pm

So for the religious right: no contraception and no abortions.
Can they not see the total disconnect here?

131 celticdragon  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:55:15pm

re: #37 Ming

This would be funny, if it didn’t impact people’s lives with such devastation. This post talks about anti-abortion activists who would outlaw abortions even after a week or two of pregnancy. And the very next blog post, immediately below this one, is about anti-birth control activists who want to restrict access to contraception. Well, elementary logic would say that if you really are concerned about all abortions, you would naturally want to make contraceptives widely available, so fewer abortions would occur (for that matter, fewer miscarriages, which are also tragic, would occur). But here we have the same people 100% committed to outlawing contraception, and outlawing abortion. (And of course, all this would be done without any government spending.)

They don’t want big government, of course. Just big enough to sneak into your lingerie drawer and sniff your panties.

132 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:55:23pm

re: #130 blueraven

So for the religious right: no contraception and no abortions.
Can they not see the total disconnect here?


What part of “Abstinence only” do you not understand?

133 theheat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:55:30pm

re: #118 SanFranciscoZionist

Children are wonderful. Grown-ups doing what they’re meant to do is also wonderful.

I love Little Heat with all my heart, and have never regretted the trials and tribulations of having a child.

Fact is, I also like sex. Loving sex between two partners, hot makeup sex, panting kinky sex not approved by any major religion - it’s all good as far as I’m concerned. Me, I like the kind of sex that doesn’t make babies. So do a lot of people. Making babies and having sex don’t always need to be the same thing.

134 Lidane  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:56:41pm
135 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:57:31pm

re: #124 Charles

Andrew Breitbart says he wants to “debate” me. To show the kind of debate he has in mind, here’s his tweet:

Breitbart’s tactic is to call out his sycophantic followers by retweeting my posts, and they predictably respond with dim-witted abuse. It’s an idiot’s chorus.

In the mean time, we can laugh that Breitbart would consider himself your equal in any “debate.” More accurately put, he will happily chant meaningless challenges about an event that he would run from if offered, because you would further expose him as the useless lying trash he is.

136 Lidane  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:58:09pm

re: #130 blueraven

So for the religious right: no contraception and no abortions.
Can they not see the total disconnect here?

Of course not. If all these pesky wimmins would just STFU and only have sex when they’re married and have all kinds of babiez no matter what they actually wanted, there wouldn’t be any need for abortion or birth control. =P

137 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:58:19pm

re: #134 Lidane

The Republican war on the poor continues:

At Tea Party Event, Gov. Rick Scott (R-FL) Unveils Budget That Raids Low-Income Health Services To Cut Corporate Taxes


But as soon as they cut corporate tayes, the poor will get well-paid jobs and be able to afford health care.

What part of “Free Market” do you not understand?

138 RadicalModerate  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:58:27pm

re: #124 Charles

Andrew Brietbart:Debate::Pro Wrestling:Sports

139 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:58:54pm

re: #92 moderatelyradicalliberal

It’s still an extension of the horrific idea that anyone who hasn’t been baptized can’t get into heaven. Especially, when you consider how high infant mortality was when the doctrine was first introduced.

Just re-read that. Limbo wasn’t seen as permanent—just a holding area until the end of the world. Both Limbo and Purgatory then empty into Heaven. Most cagey Catholic schoolchildren would have been happy to do time in Limbo to avoid the alternatives.

140 Gus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:58:56pm

Breitbart is incapable of debating anyone. All he can accomplish is a great deal of screaming, genuflecting, and the showing of his gums as his face scrunches up displaying his internal mental agony.

141 Lidane  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:59:35pm

re: #137 ralphieboy

What part of “Free Market” do you not understand?

The part where cutting corporate taxes automatically trickles down to the poor and low-income folks who need the most help.

142 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:59:36pm

re: #126 ludwigvanquixote

OK, so let’s please recap.

Recently the GOP has:

Attempted to redefine rape in a thinly veiled attempt to force women to carry rape pregnancies to term.

Attempted to allow hospitals the “right” to refuse emergency abortions.

Attempted to prevent brith control measures.

And on their network Fox, scantily clad women sell their propaganda.

Wonder why I call them utterly misogynist?

A GOP rep in Georgia is also attempting to define rape victims as “accusers”, legally, in a charming inversion of the language generally invoked when describing VICTIMS of rape.

huffingtonpost.com

So add that to the list of misogynistic legislating.

143 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:00:10pm

re: #130 blueraven

So for the religious right: no contraception and no abortions.
Can they not see the total disconnect here?

Oh, it’s all connected… at the ankle by the bare foot, by a shackle connected to the stove…

144 iossarian  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:00:13pm

re: #138 RadicalModerate

Andrew Brietbart:Debate::Pro Wrestling:Sports

re: #140 Gus 802

Breitbart is incapable of debating anyone. All he can accomplish is a great deal of screaming, genuflecting, and the showing of his gums as his face scrunches up displaying his internal mental agony.

It’s still real to me, dammit!

145 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:00:19pm

re: #134 Lidane

The Republican war on the poor continues:

At Tea Party Event, Gov. Rick Scott (R-FL) Unveils Budget That Raids Low-Income Health Services To Cut Corporate Taxes

Of course he does…

By the way, that sort of injustice really is the exact sin of Sodom as far as Avot is concerned.

Really, as per the Laws they love to pretend to thump on when they bang their bibles and desecrate the Name, they are clearly and easily defined as evil.

146 celticdragon  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:00:38pm

re: #44 bloodstar

Well, the Virginia AG is already promising to investigate Planned Parenthood ( hate linking to Big Government, so sorry about that, feel free to just google “Planned Parenthood Virginia AG”) for their open “willingness to participate in support sex trafficking of minors.”

Smear campaigns become very intimidating and effective when you can have a partisan AG with an agenda and an excuse.

The Virginia AG is a fucking Inquisitor. Torquemada would love this asshole. He is already investigating openly harassing scientists who research AGW, and has banned state schools from protecting GLBT employees. He is busy trying to regulate every abortion services clinic out of existence in the state with requirements many hospitals would be hard pressed to afford.

The only things he is missing is his dungeon and the hot pokers.

147 Summer Seale  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:01:23pm

re: #41 ralphieboy

Two words: ABSTINENCE ONLY

I think that it is exceedingly clear, when listening to the ideas and speeches of people who proclaim to practice abstinence, that the actual practice of it can be an egregiously bad idea. =)

148 Lidane  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:01:25pm
149 Pamela Gellar [sic(k)]  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:01:28pm

re: #140 Gus 802

Breitbart is incapable of debating anyone. All he can accomplish is a great deal of screaming, genuflecting, and the showing of his gums as his face scrunches up displaying his internal mental agony.

He might attack you with his Snuggie!

Image: breitbartmotivationalrageahol.jpg

150 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:01:36pm

re: #134 Lidane

The Republican war on the poor continues:

At Tea Party Event, Gov. Rick Scott (R-FL) Unveils Budget That Raids Low-Income Health Services To Cut Corporate Taxes

Jeff Sessions (R - Alabama) also wants to cut corporate taxes, and offset the revenue loss by raising taxes “elsewhere in the budget”. Because, you know, clearly workers have too much money, and corporations, too little. Won’t someone think of the CEO’s?

huffingtonpost.com

151 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:01:50pm

re: #141 Lidane

The part where cutting corporate taxes automatically trickles down to the poor and low-income folks who need the most help.

Why do you hate Freedom?

/

152 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:01:59pm

This is the new right for you all. They systematically try to destroy the reputation of anyone who doesn’t share their worldview. I’ve said so on here that my own personal views are fairly close to anti abortion but at the same time, I really hate the anti abortion political movement because all they care is about demonizing anyone who is pro choice and not offering real solutions to help mothers.

153 Gus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:02:46pm

re: #149 iceweasel

He might attack you with his Snuggie!

Image: breitbartmotivationalrageahol.jpg

Oh noz! Big old tough guy and his dufus “boy” friend Matt Drudge is coming to gets me!

Quack, quack!

154 theheat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:02:46pm

re: #147 Summer

So many experts on abstinence also tend to be born-again virgins, that already got hot ‘n’ sweaty between the sheets.

They’re worse than ex-smokers, and less sincere.

155 makeitstop  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:03:11pm

re: #146 celticdragon

The only things he is missing is his dungeon and the hot pokers.

As far as we know.

156 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:03:20pm

re: #147 Summer

I think that it is exceedingly clear, when listening to the ideas and speeches of people who proclaim to practice abstinence, that the actual practice of it can be an egregiously bad idea. =)


It’s a great idea, it’s just a total failure when put into practice…

157 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:03:25pm

re: #142 Fozzie Bear

A GOP rep in Georgia is also attempting to define rape victims as “accusers”, legally, in a charming inversion of the language generally invoked when describing VICTIMS of rape.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]

So add that to the list of misogynistic legislating.

ohhh yes
That too…

I really hate these guys.

They are evil and selfish in the worst ways. They are ignorant and arrogant and proud of their cruelty. They believe they are masters of the universe who gained position through their own merit and superiority wile they falsely claim to serve God. They mock calls for justice or charity. They mocj knowledge. They believe themselves masters of the universe and destroy creation.

The GOP is starting to move from being mere rashas to being in the mindset of Amalek.

158 celticdragon  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:03:38pm

re: #134 Lidane

The Republican war on the poor continues:

At Tea Party Event, Gov. Rick Scott (R-FL) Unveils Budget That Raids Low-Income Health Services To Cut Corporate Taxes

It is the perfect wedge issue culture war meme. “Poor” is a dog whistle for “black” and “white cracker trash”.

As noted before, we have a broad and rather sadistic Calvanist streak in our culture, and we like to see poor people punished, since God loves rich people and rewards them.

An awful lot of Americans may be in for a shock in the afterlife.

159 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:03:45pm

The worst part about these “sting” videos is that they go viral on the right, get spread around, and the damage is done even if it is wholly refuted later. Look at ACORN.

Does anyone have a Bentley I can borrow? I’m thinking I should dress up as a CEO, and go make a video asking conservative groups thinly veiled questions about how to abuse my workers, skirt child labor laws, etc.

160 Pamela Gellar [sic(k)]  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:04:32pm

re: #153 Gus 802

Oh noz! Big old tough guy and his dufus “boy” friend Matt Drudge is coming to gets me!

Quack, quack!

That.
Was.
AWESOME.

161 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:04:45pm

re: #156 ralphieboy

It’s a great idea, it’s just a total failure when put into practice…

It’s a great idea until you realize that all animals (including humans) are freaking hard-wired to screw. It’s like legislating that people should stop breathing.

162 webevintage  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:05:28pm

How is it possible that in the first 2 months of 2011 women have become such a target for the GOP?
I’m really feeling annoyed.
Hopefully more women are too and they will pay the TeaGOP back on election day.
Oh and I think it is time to revisit getting the ERA passed in the rest of the states.

163 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:05:31pm

re: #150 Fozzie Bear

Jeff Sessions (R - Alabama) also wants to cut corporate taxes, and offset the revenue loss by raising taxes “elsewhere in the budget”. Because, you know, clearly workers have too much money, and corporations, too little. Won’t someone think of the CEO’s?

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]

Alabama is one of the states that tax groceries, books, and medicine. Our local sales tax is 9%, directly sticking it to our far-below national working poor.

164 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:05:34pm

re: #158 celticdragon

It is the perfect wedge issue culture war meme. “Poor” is a dog whistle for “black” and “white cracker trash”.

As noted before, we have a broad and rather sadistic Calvanist streak in our culture, and we like to see poor people punished, since God loves rich people and rewards them.

An awful lot of Americans may be in for a shock in the afterlife.

What pisses me off is when you mention that to them, you get oh you’re engaging in class warfare. Damn right, I am, when said person and ideology seems to directly care more about the interests of a select few wealthy over the poor, I am going to get be pissed. I don’t care how leftist this makes me sound. The way right wing politicians and ideologues put the very wealthy before the poor is sick.

165 theheat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:06:00pm

re: #157 ludwigvanquixote

I really hate these guys.

OT - as a hip and enlightened Jewish man, what is up with the evangelists adopting “Shalom” to their signature lines? Is it just a manifestation of their end times fantasies or their fake love/hate relationship with imperfect Jewish people?

166 Lidane  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:06:11pm

re: #154 theheat

“Born-again virgin” has to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard of. There’s no going back once you’ve had sex. It’s like the idiots who think saddlebacking keeps you a virgin.

Just admit you had sex and live with it. If you didn’t like the person you slept with or you made a poor choice, then just be an adult and wait until you’re sure you’re ready again. It really is that simple.

167 Gus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:06:18pm

re: #160 iceweasel

That.
Was.
AWESOME.

Thanks. And it’s so true. Breitbart is just another Snooki.

168 Buck  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:06:31pm

re: #159 prononymous

The worst part about these “sting” videos is that they go viral on the right, get spread around, and the damage is done even if it is wholly refuted later. Look at ACORN.

Does anyone have a Bentley I can borrow? I’m thinking I should dress up as a CEO, and go make a video asking conservative groups thinly veiled questions about how to abuse my workers, skirt child labor laws, etc.

Do it… You can rent a Bentley, but I don’t think you need it. You can visit any office of the CofC and ask for advise on those exact subjects. You get the response you think you are going to get, you will be rich and famous.

169 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:06:58pm

re: #161 Fozzie Bear

It’s a great idea until you realize that all animals (including humans) are freaking hard-wired to screw. It’s like legislating that people should stop breathing.

Well, we know that, it’s just that people should feel sinful and bestial for being who they are.

170 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:07:50pm

re: #159 prononymous

The worst part about these “sting” videos is that they go viral on the right, get spread around, and the damage is done even if it is wholly refuted later. Look at ACORN.

Does anyone have a Bentley I can borrow? I’m thinking I should dress up as a CEO, and go make a video asking conservative groups thinly veiled questions about how to abuse my workers, skirt child labor laws, etc.

It’s been done:

Billionaires for Bush

billionairesforbush.com

171 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:08:03pm

re: #166 Lidane

“Born-again virgin” has to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard of. There’s no going back once you’ve had sex. It’s like the idiots who think saddlebacking keeps you a virgin.

Just admit you had sex and live with it. If you didn’t like the person you slept with or you made a poor choice, then just be an adult and wait until you’re sure you’re ready again. It really is that simple.


If you can believe that virgins can give birth and remain virgins, then it is no great stretch to believe in born-again virginity.

172 Sionainn  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:08:03pm

re: #39 Gus 802

In most cases Planned Parenthood is the only place for women (and some men) to turn. If there was no Planned Parenthood there would be no alternative for these people. And PP is not only about providing abortion services. The goal of these extremists is to shut down PP and return America to an era long gone.

I used Planned Parenthood for GYN care when I was in my 20s and didn’t have insurance to be able to afford doctor visits for Pap smears, breast exams, and prescriptions for birth control and yeast infections (back in the day when that stuff wasn’t over-the-counter). They allowed me to be able to take care of my health at the same time as being able to prevent a unwanted pregnancy. I’m very glad they were there for me and other young women.

173 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:09:25pm

re: #159 prononymous

The worst part about these “sting” videos is that they go viral on the right, get spread around, and the damage is done even if it is wholly refuted later. Look at ACORN.

Does anyone have a Bentley I can borrow? I’m thinking I should dress up as a CEO, and go make a video asking conservative groups thinly veiled questions about how to abuse my workers, skirt child labor laws, etc.

The thing is, conservative groups are often perfectly open about such things. I mean, BP got defended on the ground that ‘accidents happen’, companies brag about how they’ve reduced full-time workers so as to reduce overhead and get out of paying health care costs, etc. It’s not hidden.

174 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:09:34pm

re: #152 HappyWarrior

This is the new right for you all. They systematically try to destroy the reputation of anyone who doesn’t share their worldview. I’ve said so on here that my own personal views are fairly close to anti abortion but at the same time, I really hate the anti abortion political movement because all they care is about demonizing anyone who is pro choice and not offering real solutions to help mothers.

When the “pro life” movement would rather let women die than receive appropriate treatment (which may include abortion) then they are no longer “pro life.”

175 theheat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:10:09pm

re: #171 ralphieboy

I suppose it’s all an easy fix unless you already carved the notches into your bedpost, right?

176 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:10:38pm

re: #168 Buck

Do it… You can rent a Bentley, but I don’t think you need it. You can visit any office of the CofC and ask for advise on those exact subjects. You get the response you think you are going to get, you will be rich and famous.

Because youtubers are just showering Rose and O’Keefe with money…

re: #170 Decatur Deb

It’s been done:

Billionaires for Bush

[Link: billionairesforbush.com…]

To much humor and not enough editing.

177 Jimmah  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:10:43pm

I’m dragging iceweasel away to watch the conclusion of season 2 of “Rome” with me. catch you all later :)

178 Gus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:10:49pm

re: #134 Lidane

The Republican war on the poor continues:

At Tea Party Event, Gov. Rick Scott (R-FL) Unveils Budget That Raids Low-Income Health Services To Cut Corporate Taxes

No doubt all of the poor right wingers that voted for him and are getting those same services will gladly make that sacrifice for “the cause”.

//

179 webevintage  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:10:55pm

re: #172 Sionainn

I used Planned Parenthood for GYN care when I was in my 20s and didn’t have insurance to be able to afford doctor visits for Pap smears, breast exams, and prescriptions for birth control and yeast infections (back in the day when that stuff wasn’t over-the-counter). They allowed me to be able to take care of my health at the same time as being able to prevent a unwanted pregnancy. I’m very glad they were there for me and other young women.

Indeed.
And people like Lila Rose want to burn that all down with no alternative left.
Less access to BC=more abortions

180 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:11:33pm

re: #174 Alouette

When the “pro life” movement would rather let women die than receive appropriate treatment (which may include abortion) then they are no longer “pro life.”


Yep, can’t argue with that at all.

181 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:11:54pm

re: #169 ralphieboy

Well, we know that, it’s just that people should feel sinful and bestial for being who they are.

I always thought that being sinful and bestial is one of the best parts of being alive.

The concept of evil creates its own reality, imo. If you label other people as evil, it allows you to rationalize doing things to them that would otherwise be considered immoral acts. So, if you think you know what evil really is, it’s much easier to actually go and do things that would appear evil from the outside.

I have often wondered if this is what was meant in genesis regarding original sin. Adam and Eve “ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil”. Perhaps original sin is moral judgement? This has long been my take on it.

182 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:11:56pm

re: #176 prononymous

Because youtubers are just showering Rose and O’Keefe with money…

re: #170 Decatur Deb

To much humor and not enough editing.

Here’s the essence:

Image: Cher.jpg

183 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:12:40pm

re: #174 Alouette

When the “pro life” movement would rather let women die than receive appropriate treatment (which may include abortion) then they are no longer “pro life.”

Recalls the Reagan “Evil Empire” video posted yesterday about how it would be better to let young children die than grow up athiests

We are dealing with a dangerous form of fundamentalism, one that has insinuated itself into the highest levels of politics, administration and public office.

184 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:12:43pm

re: #165 theheat

OT - as a hip and enlightened Jewish man, what is up with the evangelists adopting “Shalom” to their signature lines? Is it just a manifestation of their end times fantasies or their fake love/hate relationship with imperfect Jewish people?

As a vastly less touchy feely Jewish man I will say this.

There are those for whom Christianity is their faith, and they see it as its own thing and I have no beef with them. I respect them and I focus on how our faiths are more similar than different and on the calls for justice and charity that we share from the same roots. Who am I to tell anyone how to search their hearts?

However,

There has always been that smug strain of lowbrow Christianity that absorbs its validity from us and squats on our Tradition much like the Dome of the Rock squats over the Beis Hamikdash. They have always been insecure in the certain knowledge that the original people of Israel, who wrote and were written about in those bibles they thump, rejected their theology, so they cling to bits of our tradition in a vain attempt to show themselves as the new model of the “real thing.”

185 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:13:24pm

re: #175 theheat

I suppose it’s all an easy fix unless you already carved the notches into your bedpost, right?


Those are just to count the number of times you’ve been saved by Grace…

186 webevintage  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:13:25pm

re: #178 Gus 802

No doubt all of the poor right wingers that voted for him and are getting those same services will gladly make that sacrifice for “the cause”.

//

heh.
It will be Obama and those dirty libs fault then.

187 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:13:43pm

re: #174 Alouette

When the “pro life” movement would rather let women die than receive appropriate treatment (which may include abortion) then they are no longer “pro life.”

And they seem to miss the point that killing the mother means losing the fetus as well. No one ever accused bible thumpers of being bright.

188 Lidane  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:13:57pm

re: #171 ralphieboy

If you can believe that virgins can give birth and remain virgins, then it is no great stretch to believe in born-again virginity.

Heh. One of the main reasons I stopped being Catholic was the fact that I could never buy into the bullshit about Mary being a perpetual virgin. Even if I could believe the story about Zeus God impregnating a mortal woman, the idea that she goes through pregnancy and childbirth and stays a virgin never made sense to me.

189 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:14:56pm

re: #188 Lidane

Heh. One of the main reasons I stopped being Catholic was the fact that I could never buy into the bullshit about Mary being a perpetual virgin. Even if I could believe the story about Zeus God impregnating a mortal woman, the idea that she goes through pregnancy and childbirth and stays a virgin never made sense to me.

“Like light through glass”.

190 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:16:26pm

re: #188 Lidane

I never understood why it was seen as a good thing for her to stay a virgin. Nobody was ever really able to explain it to me. I mean, she had a husband. It wouldn’t have been adultery. In fact, according to Jewish law, she and Joseph were candidates for divorce.

191 theheat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:16:55pm

re: #184 LudwigVanQuixote

Thanks LVQ. The people I’ve seen hijacking this probably fall under the “however…” part of your post. Weird thing is, I’m seeing it more and more, like it’s fundies going viral.

I’m a little hyper sensitive to that kind of stuff. I think maybe I can smell it before I see it. That’s why I asked, though. Thanks.

192 Gus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:17:06pm

re: #186 webevintage

heh.
It will be Obama and those dirty libs fault then.

Right. Hey, I wonder what plan B will involve when those people start hitting the emergency rooms. They’re going to wind up with an even bigger bill in the end. I seriously doubt that those tax cuts will create any jobs.

193 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:17:16pm

re: #188 Lidane

Heh. One of the main reasons I stopped being Catholic was the fact that I could never buy into the bullshit about Mary being a perpetual virgin. Even if I could believe the story about Zeus God impregnating a mortal woman, the idea that she goes through pregnancy and childbirth and stays a virgin never made sense to me.

In the Middle Ages, it was widely believed that she was impregnated through her ear canal and that the baby popped out of a special trapdoor in her stomach…

194 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:17:45pm

re: #191 theheat

Thanks LVQ. The people I’ve seen hijacking this probably fall under the “however…” part of your post. Weird thing is, I’m seeing it more and more, like it’s fundies going viral.

I’m a little hyper sensitive to that kind of stuff. I think maybe I can smell it before I see it. That’s why I asked, though. Thanks.

LOL don’t take my word for it. What does replacement theology mean to you?

195 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:18:05pm

re: #190 Obdicut

I never understood why it was seen as a good thing for her to stay a virgin. Nobody was ever really able to explain it to me. I mean, she had a husband. It wouldn’t have been adultery. In fact, according to Jewish law, she and Joseph were candidates for divorce.


It was a politically and theologically necessary thing for her to be a virgin. It certainly had nothing at all to do with the scriptures.

196 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:19:44pm

re: #190 Obdicut

I never understood why it was seen as a good thing for her to stay a virgin. Nobody was ever really able to explain it to me. I mean, she had a husband. It wouldn’t have been adultery. In fact, according to Jewish law, she and Joseph were candidates for divorce.

It would detract from his supernatural nature as a folk story if he were just born in the normal way.

I prefer to refer to Jesus as “the purportedly magical Jew”.

197 Gus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:20:17pm

OK, back later.

198 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:20:45pm

re: #182 Decatur Deb

I was following up on a reference you made earlier to something I was unfamiliar with. Look what I got.

[I also found a wikipedia page.]

199 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:20:49pm

re: #196 Fozzie Bear

No, I mean, after he was born. Even accepting that he was born supernaturally, why would she stay a virgin after that?

200 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:21:35pm

re: #195 ralphieboy

It was a politically and theologically necessary thing for her to be a virgin. It certainly had nothing at all to do with the scriptures.

Ties the Nativity to Isaiah:

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign: Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isaiah 7:14

201 theheat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:21:40pm

re: #194 LudwigVanQuixote

I think I needed another perspective to confirm, or make more distinct, my suspicions.

202 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:22:42pm

re: #194 LudwigVanQuixote

LOL don’t take my word for it. What does replacement theology mean to you?

Ludwig, just yesterday I read this article:

publiceye.org

The New Christian Zionism and the Jews
A Love/Hate Relationship
By Rachel Tabachnick

—-

There’s some curious stuff cited.

203 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:22:51pm

re: #199 Obdicut

No, I mean, after he was born. Even accepting that he was born supernaturally, why would she stay a virgin after that?

Because she isn’t a woman, she is a portal through which God returns to the world. It just wouldn’t do for her to allow regular mortal penis into the vessel of the son of God.

204 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:23:05pm

re: #199 Obdicut

No, I mean, after he was born. Even accepting that he was born supernaturally, why would she stay a virgin after that?

Wait, not my book, but didn’t he have brothers like James?

205 theheat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:23:40pm

re: #202 Sergey Romanov

Fantastic - thanks!

206 charlz  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:24:30pm

re: #190 Obdicut

I never understood why it was seen as a good thing for her to stay a virgin.

The stories around the birth of Jesus (virgin birth, wise men, star, etc.) were added by his disciples (or their scribes actually) following a long tradition of ascribing miracles, divine intervention and early recognition at the birth of a self-professed messiah. It’s all apocryphal, but it’s an effective marketing tool.

207 Buck  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:24:54pm

re: #176 prononymous

Because youtubers are just showering Rose and O’Keefe with money…


I have a cousin. She thought the Kuwaiti testimony for congress during the first Iraq war sounded fishy. The who Iraqi solders dumping babies on the ground and stealing the incubators. She investigated a little and discovered how the lies were born at a Washington PR firm, and the little girl who tearfully testified was the daughter of the Kuwaiti Ambassador.

She was paid big bucks for that piece, and even sold it to 60 Minutes. She even got an Emmy award for it.

SO, I predict if you could get someone at the Chamber of Commerce to give you advice on how to abuse your employees, or get around child labor laws you would be able to hit a home run as well.

Good luck….

208 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:25:44pm

re: #203 Fozzie Bear

Because she isn’t a woman, she is a portal through which God returns to the world. It just wouldn’t do for her to allow regular mortal penis into the vessel of the son of God.

My point is that it’s entirely consistent with the Christian take on female reproductive organs. It’s not the woman’s to use as she sees fit, it’s her husband’s to use as he sees fit. The husband, in this case, being God.

209 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:25:45pm

re: #202 Sergey Romanov

For example:

By repenting of the Holocaust and allowing Messianics to retain their Jewish identity, these Christian Zionists teach that the stumbling blocks will be removed and Jews will convert in large numbers. In his book Prepare the Way, Stearns claimed that this is happening at an unprecedented rate, stating, “Our elder brother is returning from the dead.”[42] This echoes his CUFI colleague Hagee, who after his infamous Hitler as hunter quote said, “Now they (the Jews) are physically alive, but they are not spiritually alive.”[43]

210 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:26:01pm

re: #203 Fozzie Bear

Because she isn’t a woman, she is a portal through which God returns to the world. It just wouldn’t do for her to allow regular mortal penis into the vessel of the son of God.

re: #204 LudwigVanQuixote

Wait, not my book, but didn’t he have brothers like James?

Not in the Catholic version. “Ever virgin” might not have been well defined until the Middle Ages RC theologians, IIRC.

211 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:27:32pm

re: #204 LudwigVanQuixote

Wait, not my book, but didn’t he have brothers like James?

Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and some other Christian doctrines hold that she remained a virgin.


en.wikipedia.org

212 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:27:36pm

re: #209 Sergey Romanov

Or this:

Christian Zionist literature regularly uses this threat of the second holocaust to warn, or intimidate, Jews to move to Israel before it is “too late,” and steeps it with additional antisemitic imagery. In Let My People Go, Tom Hess describes his vision of trains taking fleeing Jews from the major cities of the world as they voluntarily leave for Israel, thus saving themselves from an impending holocaust. Its cover shows a Jewish businessman chained to Wall Street, and the book is filled with stereotypes of Jews as money-oriented materialists and worse.[8] Hess’ ministry, based in Israel, sends the books to Jewish households around the world , and claims to have distributed tens of thousands to the “fish” as he calls the Jews of Russia and Ukraine. Hess also hosts the annual Christian Governmental Leaders Luncheon in conjunction with the Knesset’s Christian Allies Caucus.[9]

Another book, Blow the Trumpet in Zion, lists “The Jew’s Final Holocaust” above “Why Christians Should Love Jews” on its back cover promotion.[10] Its author is Richard Booker, who has worked with the Christian Allies Caucus and Jerusalem Connection, headed by former CUFI director James Hutchens.[11] The best-selling book of another prominent Christian Zionist describes this second holocaust as “beyond the horrors of Sobibor, Treblinka, and Auschwitz – all of the death camps combined.”[12]

These Christian Zionists believe a second holocaust is necessary to force the repentance of Jews.

213 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:27:42pm

re: #188 Lidane

Heh. One of the main reasons I stopped being Catholic was the fact that I could never buy into the bullshit about Mary being a perpetual virgin. Even if I could believe the story about Zeus God impregnating a mortal woman, the idea that she goes through pregnancy and childbirth and stays a virgin never made sense to me.

It’s a mistranslation from the Hebrew. The verse cited from Isaiah does not refer to a “virgin.”

214 theheat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:29:04pm

re: #204 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #202 Sergey Romanov

The article Sergey links to fills in all the blanks for me. Suspicions confirmed, right to the letter, particularly because of the flavor of fundie I’ve seen hijacking the Shalom bit. It all fits now.

(I may just be a dumb old atheist, but I have better intuition than Jimmy The Greek ever had.)

215 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:30:41pm

re: #213 Alouette

It’s a mistranslation from the Hebrew. The verse cited from Isaiah does not refer to a “virgin.”

It’s the translation Catholics fall back on. (At least till the ’60s. I lose track there.)

216 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:30:56pm

re: #202 Sergey Romanov

Ludwig, just yesterday I read this article:

[Link: www.publiceye.org…]

The New Christian Zionism and the Jews
A Love/Hate Relationship
By Rachel Tabachnick

—-

There’s some curious stuff cited.

Yeah wow….

Talk about a mess all the way around.

I should be pretty clear that in general, I have a number of huge problems with the comfortable, fat, arrogant and completely naive, spoiled, armchair pseudo intellectual “liberal” view of Jewish matters that J street represents. I would say to most of them, have a walk in the shook, learn some history, and then dive from some rockets before opening their ignorant mouths.

They are serving their own ends and their own agenda without thinking of the good of Israel as a whole or the people as a whole.

ON the other end, I do not, and nor should any sane Jew trust wing nut Christians unequivocally. They are just as likely to buy into Ron Paul and Rand Paul as anyone else and many of their world views (particularly on issues like social justice, women’s rights, education and the environment) are anathema to Judaism. Also the whole end times get us into Israel so that their version of messiah can “perfect us” is not really friendly at all. Anyone who loves you so much, that they think the best thing for you is to abandon your faith, culture and heritage is not your friend.

Seeing these two politically angle and attempting to use Klal Y’Israel as a pawn disgusts me.

217 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:31:16pm

re: #200 Decatur Deb

Ties the Nativity to Isaiah:

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign: Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isaiah 7:14

Except that Isaiah does not mention a “virgin.” The word used is almah, which means a young woman (generic), and the Hebrew word for virgin is betulah.

218 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:32:15pm

re: #211 Obdicut

Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and some other Christian doctrines hold that she remained a virgin.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

OK, I believe you and I am not arguing… I just thought that James was his brother. Where did he come from?

219 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:32:35pm

re: #217 Alouette

Except that Isaiah does not mention a “virgin.” The word used is almah, which means a young woman (generic), and the Hebrew word for virgin is betulah.

You beat me to that comment!

220 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:33:31pm

re: #168 Buck

Do it… You can rent a Bentley, but I don’t think you need it. You can visit any office of the CofC and ask for advise on those exact subjects. You get the response you think you are going to get, you will be rich and famous.

You think an O’Keefe-style attack—multiple visits, multiple offices, keep trying until you get something—wouldn’t work in the situation described? I think it would work in almost any situation out there.

221 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:33:52pm

re: #217 Alouette

Except that Isaiah does not mention a “virgin.” The word used is almah, which means a young woman (generic), and the Hebrew word for virgin is betulah.

“Ask my people”

222 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:34:18pm

re: #217 Alouette

Except that Isaiah does not mention a “virgin.” The word used is almah, which means a young woman (generic), and the Hebrew word for virgin is betulah.

Its amazing that a mistranslation becomes religious dogma for centuries, even while the original text is still readily available, and easily confirmed as not accurately-translated into English.

Of course, one wonders how much of the Aramaic didn’t translate neatly into Greek and Hebrew, and thus, how many more layers of meaning are lost forever.

223 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:34:37pm

re: #218 LudwigVanQuixote

OK, I believe you and I am not arguing… I just thought that James was his brother. Where did he come from?

Arguments over whether “brother” is biological or metaphorical.

224 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:35:40pm

re: #218 LudwigVanQuixote

OK, I believe you and I am not arguing… I just thought that James was his brother. Where did he come from?

According to various doctrines, either a previous wife, or adopted, or just another member of the family.

225 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:36:43pm

re: #217 Alouette

Except that Isaiah does not mention a “virgin.” The word used is almah, which means a young woman (generic), and the Hebrew word for virgin is betulah.

True, though as a historical note, the NT authors used a variant of Septuagint which has “parthenos” (“virgin”) instead, which, while a mistranslation, is not an intentional one, since the Septuagint was translated by Jews for Jews.

226 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:38:11pm

re: #222 Fozzie Bear

Its amazing that a mistranslation becomes religious dogma for centuries, even while the original text is still readily available, and easily confirmed as not accurately-translated into English.

Of course, one wonders how much of the Aramaic didn’t translate neatly into Greek and Hebrew, and thus, how many more layers of meaning are lost forever.

Well as I have written here many many times before, there is an entire oral tradition and Oral Law that clearly lays out what the words mean in the greater context of Jewish Law and philosophy. It is called the Talmud and of course Midrash and Kaballah.

ONe of the first things the early Christians did was reject the Oral LAw. This gave them the freedom to redefine all sorts of things.

Now I am *not* saying that is a good or a bad thing for Christians to do. They are after all a different religion. However, if you want to goto what the scripture actually says in the original, ask the people who bloody well wrote it!

227 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:38:23pm

re: #225 Sergey Romanov

True, though as a historical note, the NT authors used a variant of Septuagint which has “parthenos” (“virgin”) instead, which, while a mistranslation, is not an intentional one, since the Septuagint was translated by Jews for Jews.

I thought the Septuagint was translated by Jews for Ptolemy, although it was used by other Jews as a learning tool.

228 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:38:39pm

re: #225 Sergey Romanov

True, though as a historical note, the NT authors used a variant of Septuagint which has “parthenos” (“virgin”) instead, which, while a mistranslation, is not an intentional one, since the Septuagint was translated by Jews for Jews.

Maybe not “not intentional” but more like “not ideological”.

229 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:40:27pm

re: #204 LudwigVanQuixote

Wait, not my book, but didn’t he have brothers like James?

Yes. Some theories hold that the brothers are Mary and Joseph’s children, others that they may be Joseph’s sons by a previous marriage. (Tradition suggests that he was considerably older than Mary.)

Personally, I like the idea that Mary got to have a happy sex life after Jesus was born. The woman went through a lot. Being able to sleep with your husband is really the least you can expect after taking on being the mother of God.

230 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:41:38pm

re: #229 SanFranciscoZionist

Personally, I like the idea that Mary got to have a happy sex life after Jesus was born. The woman went through a lot. Being able to sleep with your husband is really the least you can expect after taking on being the mother of God.

But think of Joseph’s position. What an act to follow…

231 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:41:47pm

re: #227 Alouette

I thought the Septuagint was translated by Jews for Ptolemy, although it was used by other Jews as a learning tool.

According to the legend, it was just the Torah for Ptolemy (although how true this legend is not known), with other books translated later - thus probably for the use of the Greek-speaking community. In any case, a Jewish translation without Christian bias.

232 Buck  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:42:10pm

re: #220 SanFranciscoZionist

You think an O’Keefe-style attack—multiple visits, multiple offices, keep trying until you get something—wouldn’t work in the situation described? I think it would work in almost any situation out there.

I think IF he thinks it will work, he should do it. Seriously. It sounds like a great idea.

I would want anyone at an organization like the Chamber who was giving that sort of advice out to be caught and exposed.

233 theheat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:42:38pm

re: #230 wrenchwench

Sometimes second best tries harder.

234 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:43:32pm

re: #232 Buck

I think IF he thinks it will work, he should do it. Seriously. It sounds like a great idea.

I would want anyone at an organization like the Chamber who was giving that sort of advice out to be caught and exposed.

What if it was then used to completely undermine the Chamber itself?

That’s what’s happening here. These people don’t just want the woman who told the pimp how to get around the system fired. She was. They want Planned Parenthood destroyed, and they don’t much care how.

235 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:43:48pm

re: #232 Buck

That sort of advice is given out routinely.

Fire your permanent workers, replace them with temps who don’t get health insurance.

Move these jobs to China, where there aren’t worker protections.

Build a factor in a company that uses child labor.

Build a factor in a country that assassinates labor leaders.

This is all perfectly standard. Nobody hides it. It’s out in the open.

236 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:44:16pm

re: #233 theheat

Sometimes second best tries harder.

And is also human, and available for Shabbat-afternoon snuggling.

237 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:44:26pm

re: #232 Buck

I think IF he thinks it will work, he should do it. Seriously. It sounds like a great idea.

I would want anyone at an organization like the Chamber who was giving that sort of advice out to be caught and exposed.

By whatever means necessary, eh?

238 Kragar  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:44:29pm

Whats the bigger leap of faith?

That a woman would have a child without having sex

or

Mary and Joseph never had sex even one time during their entire marriage.

239 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:44:31pm

I heard Piers Morgan on the radio today. He’s the guy that took over for Larry King. Seems like a very smart guy.

240 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:44:55pm

re: #227 Alouette

I thought the Septuagint was translated by Jews for Ptolemy, although it was used by other Jews as a learning tool.

It was, according to Talmud. I also seem to recall that Onkelos was involved.

re: #228 Sergey Romanov

Maybe not “not intentional” but more like “not ideological”.

I am very very surprised by this. I have never read the Septuagint and I do not know classical Greek. However, I do know that the translation is held in very high esteem by the Jewish tradition. That said, I would be shocked that they made such an error, because the meaning of the word alam is very clear. It is possible that later Christian versions of the Septuagint “corrected” the word to “virgin”, in order to fit later Christian theology.

241 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:45:38pm

re: #238 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Whats the bigger leap of faith?

That a woman would have a child without having sex

or

Mary and Joseph never had sex even one time during their entire marriage.

From the disciple Rufus: “Mary gave birth to CHRIST without having known a man’s touch, that’s true. But she did have a husband. And do you really think he’d have stayed married to her all those years if he wasn’t getting laid? The nature of God and the Virgin Mary, those are leaps of faith. But to believe a married couple never got down? Well, that’s just plain gullibility.”

242 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:46:00pm

re: #230 wrenchwench

But think of Joseph’s position. What an act to follow…

But Mary, I thought you said size didn’t matter…. OK I am sooo sorry… you can bash me if you will… no offence intended.

243 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:47:25pm

re: #240 LudwigVanQuixote

Correction of Typo

The meaning of the word alma is very clear.

244 Interesting Times  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:47:42pm

re: #235 Obdicut

That sort of advice is given out routinely.

Rachel Maddow exposed it a long time ago, as well:

Corporations Are “Child Labor-Endorsing, Pro-Slavery Freaks” for Trying to Skirt Trade Laws

Populist columnist David Sirota today made this catch from the business newsletter “Inside U.S. Trade.” This is a D.C.-based publication on trade issues. It’s especially for people in international business.

What else are business groups worried about and lobbying against other than the new Wall Street regulations? I wouldn‘t believe this if I had not seen it for myself.

But check this out, quote, “Business groups are worried by the potential effects of provisions banning the import of all goods made with convict labor, forced labor or forced or indentured child labor that were included in a recent customs bill. American business groups are concerned, upset.” “Worried” was the actual phrase, worried about laws against using slaves and child labor.

245 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:47:48pm

re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist

And is also human, and available for Shabbat-afternoon snuggling.

You snuggle on Shabbos? No wonder Shmuel never came to office parties until after he saw 3 stars.

246 Alexzander  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:47:50pm

O/T: Anybody know anything about this person Wael Ghonim, who is being talked about all over twitter right now?


Wael Ghonim is free and his first words (with English translation)

247 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:47:54pm

re: #239 Killgore Trout

I heard Piers Morgan on the radio today. He’s the guy that took over for Larry King. Seems like a very smart guy.

He’s a bit of a sleazy gossip-hound, as well, though. I don’t like him. His feud with Ian Hislop was pretty disgusting on his part.

248 Buck  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:49:24pm

re: #234 SanFranciscoZionist

What if it was then used to completely undermine the Chamber itself?

That’s what’s happening here. These people don’t just want the woman who told the pimp how to get around the system fired. She was. They want Planned Parenthood destroyed, and they don’t much care how.

Look you think that it is that easy? I suggest you try it. Hey contact Arianna I hear she is flush, I bet she would pay for it.

I am repeating something I said to someone else when they said what you said.

Well I guess you are motivated to see further along into a great conspiracy than I am. Unfortunately I THINK that while you are protecting something that is NOT yet actually being attacked (the right to choose), it looks like you are defending what is actually being attacked RIGHT NOW, the sexual abuse and prostitution of minors.

When someone says these videos are proof that women should NOT have the right to choose… I will be right there to correct them with you.

However, IF the rest of the videos do show a systemic problem of defending and helping child abuse at PP, then instead of just shouting HOAX!, MBF!, FAKE! you should consider helping correct that issue.

249 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:49:24pm

re: #247 Obdicut

He’s a bit of a sleazy gossip-hound, as well, though. I don’t like him. His feud with Ian Hislop was pretty disgusting on his part.

Bummer, I don’t watch TV so I haven’t seen his show. It’s a shame because he seems like a really smart guy.

250 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:49:30pm

re: #241 SanFranciscoZionist

From the disciple Rufus: “Mary gave birth to CHRIST without having known a man’s touch, that’s true. But she did have a husband. And do you really think he’d have stayed married to her all those years if he wasn’t getting laid? The nature of God and the Virgin Mary, those are leaps of faith. But to believe a married couple never got down? Well, that’s just plain gullibility.”

Joseph is traditionally shown as very old, and dies (disappears) soon after the return from the flight into Egypt.

251 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:49:33pm

re: #247 Obdicut

He’s a bit of a sleazy gossip-hound, as well, though. I don’t like him. His feud with Ian Hislop was pretty disgusting on his part.

I think he just tries a little too frequently to be the story, rather than the storyteller, if you know what I mean.

252 Kragar  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:49:56pm

re: #241 SanFranciscoZionist

From the disciple Rufus: “Mary gave birth to CHRIST without having known a man’s touch, that’s true. But she did have a husband. And do you really think he’d have stayed married to her all those years if he wasn’t getting laid? The nature of God and the Virgin Mary, those are leaps of faith. But to believe a married couple never got down? Well, that’s just plain gullibility.”

There was a hilarious Chirstmas joke for Loveline in the late 90s where an unemployed guy named Joe called in to ask what he should do about his girlfriend who said she was a virgin but was pregnant.

253 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:50:17pm

re: #249 Killgore Trout

He is a very smart guy. But he’s an actual gotcha journalist.

254 Buck  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:51:07pm

re: #244 publicityStunted

Rachel Maddow exposed it a long time ago, as well:

Corporations Are “Child Labor-Endorsing, Pro-Slavery Freaks” for Trying to Skirt Trade Laws

OK, then wouldn’t you agree that automatically calling FAKE and HOAX would be just wrong?

255 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:51:56pm

re: #254 Buck

Your comparisons are like someone comparing the moon and my ass based on the grounds that they’re both round and luminous.

256 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:52:21pm

re: #245 Decatur Deb

You snuggle on Shabbos? No wonder Shmuel never came to office parties until after he saw 3 stars.

Actually, being “loving” with your wife is one of the preferred and recommended Shabbos activities.

257 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:52:29pm

re: #255 Obdicut

Your comparisons are like someone comparing the moon and my ass based on the grounds that they’re both round and luminous.

Buck wouldn’t know his head from his ass. Why should the moon be any different?

258 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:52:57pm

re: #256 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually, being “loving” with your wife is one of the preferred and recommended Shabbos activities.

Beats Bingo.

259 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:53:03pm

re: #254 Buck

OK, then wouldn’t you agree that automatically calling FAKE and HOAX would be just wrong?

I think PP’s reaction to this is as important as the story itself. They immediately fired the woman who gave the (illegal) advice. It’s one thing for an institution to have a bad egg inside it, it’s quite another for systematic abuses borne of perverse economic incentives.

260 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:53:06pm

re: #240 LudwigVanQuixote

It is possible that later Christian versions of the Septuagint “corrected” the word to “virgin”, in order to fit later Christian theology.


No, can’t be, since it would have been noticed instantly by contemporaries - rather, Matthew quotes LXX and bases his virgin birth story on it. (Or, in case Matthew was not an originator of this, then an earlier author based it on LXX). And of course no scholar supports this.

261 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:53:07pm

Beck Lashes Out At Bill Kristol
Not much interesting here but Beck reads Kristol’s quote about the Birch Society but neither defends or distances himself from them.

262 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:53:31pm

re: #44 bloodstar

Well, the Virginia AG is already promising to investigate Planned Parenthood ( hate linking to Big Government, so sorry about that, feel free to just google “Planned Parenthood Virginia AG”) for their open “willingness to participate in support sex trafficking of minors.”

Smear campaigns become very intimidating and effective when you can have a partisan AG with an agenda and an excuse.

Hell is pleased.

263 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:53:42pm

re: #256 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually, being “loving” with your wife is one of the preferred and recommended Shabbos activities.

I hope it’s not considered “work” even if you are doing some rather strenuous… loving.

264 Buck  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:53:56pm

re: #256 LudwigVanQuixote

Actually, being “loving” with your wife is one of the preferred and recommended Shabbos activities.

It is a mitzvah. So much so that there is a story of a rabbi who put bells on his bed so that the entire village would know when he was performing that miztvah.

So is winking at a homely girl…

265 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:53:56pm

re: #240 LudwigVanQuixote

It was, according to Talmud. I also seem to recall that Onkelos was involved.

re: #228 Sergey Romanov


I am very very surprised by this. I have never read the Septuagint and I do not know classical Greek. However, I do know that the translation is held in very high esteem by the Jewish tradition. That said, I would be shocked that they made such an error, because the meaning of the word alam is very clear. It is possible that later Christian versions of the Septuagint “corrected” the word to “virgin”, in order to fit later Christian theology.

it seems possible that “parthenos” was inserted into later versions of the septuagint, since it turns out that the earliest copies that we have of it already demonstrate that the text was subject to re-editing as it was copied:

Tetragrammaton Found in Earliest Copies of the Septuagint

266 Jaerik  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:54:05pm

Aren’t these the same people who keep harping on about “tradition” in regards to things like gay marriage?

We have never in history (that I know of) referred to a newborn as “nine months old.” We do not give out “conception certificates,” we give out “birth certificates.” We don’t require parents to name their children at conception, we don’t assign them social security numbers, we don’t have funerals for a miscarriage… we don’t do anything that would imply society has ever traditionally considered a fetus a person.

267 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:54:44pm

re: #260 Sergey Romanov

No, can’t be, since it would have been noticed instantly by contemporaries - rather, Matthew quotes LXX and bases his virgin birth story on it. (Or, in case Matthew was not an originator of this, then an earlier author based it on LXX). And of course no scholar supports this.

Matthew is a good 250 to 300 years after the Sepuagint was penned. It could certainly have been so.

268 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:54:59pm

re: #263 Fozzie Bear

I hope it’s not considered “work” even if you are doing some rather strenuous… loving.

I’m reminded of those ridiculous phones where you stick a little stick into the holes corresponding to numbers, and stop a mechanism which in turn stops a number from being dialed, thus allowing you to have merely prevented an action rather than taking one, and thus, not violating the rules.

269 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:55:04pm

re: #248 Buck

Look you think that it is that easy? I suggest you try it. Hey contact Arianna I hear she is flush, I bet she would pay for it.

I am repeating something I said to someone else when they said what you said.

However, IF the rest of the videos do show a systemic problem of defending and helping child abuse at PP, then instead of just shouting HOAX!, MBF!, FAKE! you should consider helping correct that issue.

Yes, I think it is ‘that easy’. I also don’t intend to become a slimy asshole like O’Keefe and friends, so I won’t ‘contact Arianna’.

I’m not shouting fake at all. If there is a systemic problem at Planned Parenthood, I want to know about it. However, exactly one person fell into their sleazy trap, and even she reported the situation to a supervisor. She’s also been fired. So I fail to see what I’m supposed to be concerned about, exactly.

These people are known liars and fanatics. They do not give a shit about children, at least children out of the womb. They are well-known. These are not nice people.

Seriously, if these were instead, say, people who work with kids who’ve been prostituted, and they realized that pimps were using PP as a way to get abortions and treatment for their underage prostitutes, I would be worried as hell. But THAT’S NOT WHAT HAPPENED.

270 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:55:18pm

re: #265 engineer dog

it seems possible that “parthenos” was inserted into later versions of the septuagint, since it turns out that the earliest copies that we have of it already demonstrate that the text was subject to re-editing as it was copied:

Tetragrammaton Found in Earliest Copies of the Septuagint

Thank you!

271 Buck  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:56:11pm

re: #259 Fozzie Bear

I think PP’s reaction to this is as important as the story itself. They immediately fired the woman who gave the (illegal) advice. It’s one thing for an institution to have a bad egg inside it, it’s quite another for systematic abuses borne of perverse economic incentives.

Correct, BUT if the video was a fake, or a HOAX as MM characterizes it… then firing the woman would have been just as wrong as the firing of Shirley Sherrod.

272 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:56:26pm

re: #263 Fozzie Bear

I hope it’s not considered “work” even if you are doing some rather strenuous… loving.

You are allowed to carry her around if you are in an eruv :)

Ohhh boy, that will be a few hours in Gehenna for me because I wrote that…

273 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:57:58pm

I want you crazy Jews to know that sometimes I can’t decipher the meaning of half the posts here without repeatedly googling various Hebrew words. I guess it’s an opportunity for educating myself about another culture.

274 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:58:01pm

re: #264 Buck

It is a mitzvah. So much so that there is a story of a rabbi who put bells on his bed so that the entire village would know when he was performing that miztvah.

So is winking at a homely girl…

There’s a story in the Talmud somewhere of a young man who hid under his teacher’s bed, according to him so he could see how a truly pious man makes love.

I believe he was asked to leave despite the purity of his intent.

275 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:59:19pm

re: #273 Fozzie Bear

I want you crazy Jews to know that sometimes I can’t decipher the meaning of half the posts here without repeatedly googling various Hebrew words. I guess it’s an opportunity for educating myself about another culture.

Just googled “eruv”.

276 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:59:37pm

re: #274 SanFranciscoZionist

There’s a story in the Talmud somewhere of a young man who hid under his teacher’s bed, according to him so he could see how a truly pious man makes love.

I believe he was asked to leave despite the purity of his intent.

Yeah the holy man was Akiva and the passage is more than a little juicy.

277 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:59:40pm

re: #246 Alexzander

O/T: Anybody know anything about this person Wael Ghonim, who is being talked about all over twitter right now?

Wael Ghonim is free and his first words (with English translation)

Here’s something.

…Mr. Ghonim, the head of marketing for Google in the Middle East and North Africa, is based in Dubai. On his Twitter bio, he describes himself as “Constantly changing. Serious Joker. Internet Addict. Love challenging status quo. “ There has been much speculation about what role Mr. Ghonim played behind the scenes in helping human rights activists to harness the power of technology with the Facebook and YouTube campaigns against police abuses.
278 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:00:21pm

re: #265 engineer dog

it seems possible that “parthenos” was inserted into later versions of the septuagint, since it turns out that the earliest copies that we have of it already demonstrate that the text was subject to re-editing as it was copied:

Tetragrammaton Found in Earliest Copies of the Septuagint

Since it would have been done by pre-Christian scribes, i.e. Jews (since NT quotes LXX), I fail to see why it would have been inserted by Jews.

On the other hand, it seems from some sources that several Jewish terms (including bethulah, naarah and alma) all got translated as parthenos. Thus it could be a language oddity peculiar to that time/place, which later got re-interpreted.

279 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:00:36pm

re: #275 Decatur Deb

Just googled “eruv”.

lol, same here.

280 SpaceJesus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:00:50pm

stunning?

281 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:01:02pm

re: #278 Sergey Romanov

I.e. the translators still probably did not mean parthenos as virgin.

282 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:01:15pm

re: #273 Fozzie Bear

I want you crazy Jews to know that sometimes I can’t decipher the meaning of half the posts here without repeatedly googling various Hebrew words. I guess it’s an opportunity for educating myself about another culture.

An eruv is an enclosure in which you are permitted to carry things on Shabbos. Otherwise carrying is prohibited. There are all sorts of laws as to what constitutes an eruv - I won’t even try to do a short form, because they are among the more complex sets of rules, however, the inside of your home is automatically an eruv.

283 Buck  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:02:20pm

re: #269 SanFranciscoZionist


I’m not shouting fake at all. If there is a systemic problem at Planned Parenthood, I want to know about it. However, exactly one person fell into their sleazy trap, and even she reported the situation to a supervisor. She’s also been fired. So I fail to see what I’m supposed to be concerned about, exactly.

You might be confusing one person for another. We have not seen all of the videos, there just might be others who committed the same wrongdoing. We don’t know if the fired employee reported anythign to anyone. There is no proof of that yet.

In the meanwhile, maybe you are not calling fake, but ALMOST every post on this subject here has a word like HOAX or FAKE attached to it.


Seriously, if these were instead, say, people who work with kids who’ve been prostituted, and they realized that pimps were using PP as a way to get abortions and treatment for their underage prostitutes, I would be worried as hell. But THAT’S NOT WHAT HAPPENED.

OK, I simply suggest that before we characterize the videos as fakes or Hoaxes (when it is very likely that they are not), we see the entire set.

284 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:02:45pm

re: #271 Buck

Correct, BUT if the video was a fake, or a HOAX as MM characterizes it… then firing the woman would have been just as wrong as the firing of Shirley Sherrod.

It was a hoax. The guy claiming to be a pimp running underage hos was not, in fact, a pimp running underage hos. Enough of these ‘stings’ were carried out that PP contact not only local law enforcement but the FBI, since it seemed that they might be getting felt out by a trafficking ring.

Firing the woman who gave the pimp inappropriate advice was, as far as I can tell, correct.

Does Media Matters claim that the woman who was fired did not say what the video alleges she said? Can you give me a quote for that?

285 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:03:00pm

BBL

286 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:03:20pm

re: #283 Buck

Because it is true that it was fake and a hoax.

It’s called a fact, Buck!

287 Alexzander  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:03:49pm

re: #277 wrenchwench

Thanks - turns out he has a wikipedia page too: Wael Ghonim. Apparently he was just release from jail, after being “dissappeared” 12 days ago. He spent the whole time blind folded, according to a translation linked from twitter. It seems a lot of Egyptians are rallying around him on twitter right. First real potential leader-figure?

288 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:04:02pm

re: #282 LudwigVanQuixote

An eruv is an enclosure in which you are permitted to carry things on Shabbos. Otherwise carrying is prohibited. There are all sorts of laws as to what constitutes an eruv - I won’t even try to do a short form, because they are among the more complex sets of rules, however, the inside of your home is automatically an eruv.

Don’t you ever just want to throw your hands up and say “fuck it, too many weird rules”?

I mean, doesn’t it all get a bit silly, and you kind of come to the conclusion that much of it is extrapolation based on extrapolation?

I’m really not trying to poop on the faith at all, but it seems that (orthodox) Judaism is uniquely… what’s the word… bound by very specific and particular rules.

289 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:04:37pm

re: #283 Buck

You might be confusing one person for another. We have not seen all of the videos, there just might be others who committed the same wrongdoing. We don’t know if the fired employee reported anythign to anyone. There is no proof of that yet.

In the meanwhile, maybe you are not calling fake, but ALMOST every post on this subject here has a word like HOAX or FAKE attached to it.

OK, I simply suggest that before we characterize the videos as fakes or Hoaxes (when it is very likely that they are not), we see the entire set.

It was a hoax. And a fake. That’s why.

And I do not give people like Lila Rose the benefit of the doubt. If she’s got something real, let her bring it to law enforcement, if not, I have no interest in believing her crap.

290 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:06:49pm

re: #288 Fozzie Bear

People like rules. Haven’t you ever played an RPG?

291 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:07:42pm

re: #290 Obdicut

People like rules. Haven’t you ever played an RPG?

HAHAHA yes, but as soon as someone tells me to whip out the rulebook before I screw my wife, I tell the nerds to leave, lol.

292 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:08:27pm

re: #232 Buck

I think IF he thinks it will work, he should do it. Seriously. It sounds like a great idea.

I would want anyone at an organization like the Chamber who was giving that sort of advice out to be caught and exposed.

You don’t get it Buck. This isn’t about investigative journalism, as your example was.

These sting videos are about asking enough borderline questions to enough people and editing the clips together to make a propaganda piece. It has nothing to do with the truth. Or do you really think that ACORN and PP really support things like human trafficking and child prostitution?

293 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:09:21pm

re: #287 Alexzander

Thanks - turns out he has a wikipedia page too: Wael Ghonim. Apparently he was just release from jail, after being “dissappeared” 12 days ago. He spent the whole time blind folded, according to a translation linked from twitter. It seems a lot of Egyptians are rallying around him on twitter right. First real potential leader-figure?

From his bio:

Head of Marketing of Google Middle East

A unique qualification for a unique revolution.

294 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:11:23pm

re: #230 wrenchwench

But think of Joseph’s position. What an act to follow…

Well, was God’s main interest the potential enjoyment of the sexual partner, or simply renting the womb out for producing a messiah? Joseph may actually had had it easy in comparison.

295 Alexzander  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:13:27pm

re: #293 wrenchwench

From his bio:

A unique qualification for a unique revolution.

Yeah, the whole story is quite strange. I just saw this on sandmonkey’s twitter:

A revolution organized by facebook, spread by twitter and organized by a guy working for Google. #jan25 #ILOVEOURREVOLUTION

Personally, I think thats giving technology too much credit, as it was essentially the tides of public opinion that made things so extraordinary.

296 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:14:17pm

re: #294 oaktree

Well, was God’s main interest the potential enjoyment of the sexual partner, or simply renting the womb out for producing a messiah? Joseph may actually had had it easy in comparison.

“Filled with the Holy Spirit” I’m just talking about the intimidation factor. I’m sure Mary was very reassuring to Joseph.

297 Winny Spencer  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:14:36pm

Such a joy to watch Hardball when Chris is in a good mood, like today.

298 theheat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:17:31pm

re: #296 wrenchwench

First rule of Fight Club relationships: don’t tell the next guy in line the one before him was better. No matter how much better. Even if it was earth-shatteringly better.

299 Buck  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:17:31pm

re: #284 SanFranciscoZionist

It was a hoax. The guy claiming to be a pimp running underage hos was not, in fact, a pimp running underage hos. Enough of these ‘stings’ were carried out that PP contact not only local law enforcement but the FBI, since it seemed that they might be getting felt out by a trafficking ring.

Firing the woman who gave the pimp inappropriate advice was, as far as I can tell, correct.

Does Media Matters claim that the woman who was fired did not say what the video alleges she said? Can you give me a quote for that?


“Is Live Action accurately portraying the Planned Parenthood employee’s statements and actions? It’s impossible to say for sure without the full video” (They do have the whole video) So yes, Media Matters is claiming that the woman might not have said what the video alleges. They are trying to create doubt.

Well we clearly define this differently. Calling the video a hoax, and a fake means to ME that the video is somehow changed in order to distort what the viewer sees. NOT that the people making the video were not who they said they were.

Now, maybe it is ONLY ONE EMPLOYEE. We don’t know that yet. It seems there are more videos to be released.

300 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:17:52pm

re: #288 Fozzie Bear

Don’t you ever just want to throw your hands up and say “fuck it, too many weird rules”?

I mean, doesn’t it all get a bit silly, and you kind of come to the conclusion that much of it is extrapolation based on extrapolation?

I’m really not trying to poop on the faith at all, but it seems that (orthodox) Judaism is uniquely… what’s the word… bound by very specific and particular rules.

Well it depends on what the rules are and what they mean to you personally.

There is much psychologically in Judaism that revolves around “we are doing something odd now - why?”

The answers to those whys always revolve around creating a certain awareness of spirituality and a certain lesson. If Shabbos is about sacred time, for example, then an eruv is about creating a sacred space.

Let me tell you a story I once heard.

You may know that we say blessings before eating things - and indeed there are several different blessings for different things to eat. But there are also blessings for hearing terrible news or seeing a rainbow or even a very strange looking person. There are blessings for realizing you are safe from calamity and blessings for figuring something out.

So what is a blessing and how is it different from a prayer?

A prayer isn attempt to communicate with the transcendant. A blessing is a statement of amazement ant the existense of and working of God in the world and your life at the two times you are most likely to need them the most - i.e. when you are doing something utterly familiar and might not notice the miracle of it like eating or waking up, or when something really intense has happened and you might be so into that, that you forget the source.

So here is the story.

A rabbi once went to an even greater rabbi for advice on how to be more spiritually connected. The great rabbi pointed out the apple tree in his yard.

He said to the other rabbi:

“The difference between you and me is that you might get hungry and say a blessing before you ate one of those apples. I might pick an apple for the chance to say the blessing.”

This is all a long way of saying that the individual parts of Jewish observance may or may not make sense in of themselves and they may seem very intrusive to one’s life. However, they are by design intrusive because we strive (and often fail, I certainly do) to have a certain awareness 24/7.

301 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:17:52pm

Totally OT: I am currently watching a sprawling Hindi epic movie about one of the early Mughal emperors and his wife. Giant battles, cool costumes, elephants, very interesting.

The young emperor has just told the crazy general who raised him that he is now going to make decisions for himself. As a result, captured kings will be spared, POWs will no longer be enslaved, and he wants crazy general to ‘unburden himself of responsibility’, and go on hajj. Now.

Much fun. “Jodhaa Akbar”. It’s on Netflix.

302 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:18:31pm

re: #295 Alexzander

Yeah, the whole story is quite strange. I just saw this on sandmonkey’s twitter:

Personally, I think thats giving technology too much credit, as it was essentially the tides of public opinion that made things so extraordinary.

I think it’s common to give the technology too much credit. In Poland, it was VHS tapes being passed around by members and supporters of Solidarity. Creative means of communication will always be found. They mean nothing without the brave people who give up normal life to take on people who have guns and jails.

303 Buck  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:19:00pm

re: #292 prononymous

editing the clips together to make a propaganda piece.

So then that is what you think was done here. OK, we disagree.

304 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:21:30pm

re: #303 Buck

Obviously.

305 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:21:42pm

re: #303 Buck

So then that is what you think was done here. OK, we disagree.

Why do you give the benefit of the doubt to known scumbags? It is plain that the tapers had an agenda. They tell you they have an agenda. Why do you think they were making a documentary?

306 researchok  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:22:12pm

re: #301 SanFranciscoZionist

Totally OT: I am currently watching a sprawling Hindi epic movie about one of the early Mughal emperors and his wife. Giant battles, cool costumes, elephants, very interesting.

The young emperor has just told the crazy general who raised him that he is now going to make decisions for himself. As a result, captured kings will be spared, POWs will no longer be enslaved, and he wants crazy general to ‘unburden himself of responsibility’, and go on hajj. Now.

Much fun. “Jodhaa Akbar”. It’s on Netflix.

Yeah, but how are the song and dance scenes?

307 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:22:29pm

re: #299 Buck

“Is Live Action accurately portraying the Planned Parenthood employee’s statements and actions? It’s impossible to say for sure without the full video” (They do have the whole video) So yes, Media Matters is claiming that the woman might not have said what the video alleges. They are trying to create doubt.

Well we clearly define this differently. Calling the video a hoax, and a fake means to ME that the video is somehow changed in order to distort what the viewer sees. NOT that the people making the video were not who they said they were.

Now, maybe it is ONLY ONE EMPLOYEE. We don’t know that yet. It seems there are more videos to be released.

OK. I get what you’re saying. Buck, let me try to say this for you more clearly:

Media Matters is casting doubt on the people who have the videos because they are highly biased, habitual liars, and because people connected with them have been caught lying about stuff like this in the past.

I do not see any reason for me to get worried about what might or might not be on tapes created by people like this.

If they have something worthwhile, let them bring it to law enforcement. The burden of proof is on the accuser.

Meanwhile, I do not, especially after the ACORN stupidity, see any reason to get myself worked up over this. So far I have seen an indication of wrongdoing on the part of one PP employee who has been fired. What exactly am I supposed to do now? Planned Parenthood has, by far, the better reputation in my estimation than Lila Rose and the Kool Kid Gang.

308 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:22:31pm

re: #305 wrenchwench

Buck spent a lot of time and energy defending the Sherrod smear, too.

309 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:22:38pm

re: #283 Buck

You might be confusing one person for another. We have not seen all of the videos, there just might be others who committed the same wrongdoing. We don’t know if the fired employee reported anythign to anyone. There is no proof of that yet.

In the meanwhile, maybe you are not calling fake, but ALMOST every post on this subject here has a word like HOAX or FAKE attached to it.

OK, I simply suggest that before we characterize the videos as fakes or Hoaxes (when it is very likely that they are not), we see the entire set.

Because that would once again get in the way of you defending the indefensible. Do the depth of the lies you are willing to tell yourself and others in order to protect utter scum ever get to your conscience?

310 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:23:11pm

re: #303 Buck

So then that is what you think was done here. OK, we disagree.

That’s exactly what was done here.

If you disagree, what do you think this is?

311 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:23:48pm

re: #308 Obdicut

Buck spent a lot of time and energy defending the Sherrod smear, too.

And the Palin Blood libel crap and a couple of dozen other wingnut smears lies and disgusting mantras. He also doesn’t think Rush is racist.

312 ContinentalOp  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:24:02pm

re #132 ralphieboy

What part of “Abstinence only” do you not understand?

Abstinence only doesn’t work very well. A reasonably large fraction of healthy young people will simply be unable to suppress their natural instincts. Unplanned pregnancies will result. This is well understood by everyone except those who can’t see the forest for their theoretical model of what the forest ought to look like.

313 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:25:16pm

re: #300 LudwigVanQuixote

I’d like to note that as an atheist, I describe myself as having a worshipful approach to life, a religious attitude towards existence. And it’s based on exactly the same idea of picking an apple to say a blessing.

I have rituals for myself, rising early, making coffee for my wife first thing in the morning, smiling at everyone I meet, greeting children. This are my blessings. They’re not connected with a god, but they are rules that I’m going to try to pass on to my children, for they bring me great joy.

314 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:25:27pm

re: #312 ContinentalOp

re #132 ralphieboy


Abstinence only doesn’t work very well. A reasonably large fraction of healthy young people will simply be unable to suppress their natural instincts. Unplanned pregnancies will result. This is well understood by everyone except those who can’t see the forest for their theoretical model of what the forest ought to look like.

Well, you must admit that they’re quite consistent in their ability to ignore reality.

315 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:25:56pm

re: #265 engineer dog

BTW, there’s a good wiki page about that:

en.wikipedia.org

The Tetragrammaton was inserted by Jewish copyists.

I also found that the issue is discussed in Dialogue with Trypho (2nd century), without accusations of fakery from Trypho, which supports my point that were that a Christian interpolation, such charges would have figured in Christian-Jewish polemics of the time. Instead, as Christians were adopting LXX, Jews simply ceased to use it.

316 theheat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:26:49pm

re: #312 ContinentalOp

Abstinence only means I should not and cannot indulge my desire for sex unless I’m 1.) in a heterosexual marriage, and 2.) okay with creating children willy nilly as a result of having sex.

Bull. Fucking. Shit.

317 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:28:33pm

re: #313 Obdicut

I’d like to note that as an atheist, I describe myself as having a worshipful approach to life, a religious attitude towards existence. And it’s based on exactly the same idea of picking an apple to say a blessing.

I have rituals for myself, rising early, making coffee for my wife first thing in the morning, smiling at everyone I meet, greeting children. This are my blessings. They’re not connected with a god, but they are rules that I’m going to try to pass on to my children, for they bring me great joy.

It’s at that point that a rabbi would say, no matter how far you take a Jew from synagogue, he is still a Jew inside.

318 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:29:12pm

re: #273 Fozzie Bear

I want you crazy Jews to know that sometimes I can’t decipher the meaning of half the posts here without repeatedly googling various Hebrew words. I guess it’s an opportunity for educating myself about another culture.

We decided to get my very Roman Catholic friend a Bar Mitzvah cake (its a running joke re: #303 Buck

So then that is what you think was done here. OK, we disagree.

Why is there no back story to any of these movies? Why did they suspect that PP would support child sex trafficing? How were the locations chosen, how was the story chosen, etc.

Investigative journalism involves taking a hypothesis (“Iraq didn’t empty out incubators in Kuwait”) and investigating it.

This is purely an attempt to find ANYONE in PP who would say something stupid on camera. There’s no background, no interviews with former PP members that raised concerns, no chance for PP to respond officially to any of the heinous allegations.

Its not journalism, its poorly done propaganda.They set out to paint PP as evil because they perform abortions. That’s it.

319 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:30:11pm

re: #318 McSpiff

Err, didn’t realize I had a partially written post in the text box, ignore everything before the Buck quote..

320 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:32:53pm

re: #319 McSpiff

Err, didn’t realize I had a partially written post in the text box, ignore everything before the Buck quote..

Ignore? No! We will read :P

/

321 Lidane  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:33:14pm

re: #303 Buck

If you think any of these Lila Rose tapes are actual journalism, you’re an idiot. That’s like believing that Breitbart is a journalist, or that Limbaugh and Beck are impartial observers of the human condition.

322 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:34:16pm

re: #302 wrenchwench

I think it’s common to give the technology too much credit. In Poland, it was VHS tapes being passed around by members and supporters of Solidarity. Creative means of communication will always be found. They mean nothing without the brave people who give up normal life to take on people who have guns and jails.

The driving medium for Khomeini’s return to Iran was compact cassette sermons smuggled from France.

323 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:34:33pm

re: #320 Sergey Romanov

Ignore? No! We will read :P

/

I read this in a very stereotypical Russian accent… I’ve been at work too long.

324 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:34:54pm

re: #313 Obdicut

rising early

This is a mitzvah.

making coffee for my wife first thing in the morning,

So is appreciating your wife, especially doing things that show your appreciation.

smiling at everyone I meet,

Another mitzvah and one particularly stressed in Talmud.

greeting children.

That too,

This are my blessings.

They are.

They’re not connected with a god,

That is the only place we disagree.

but they are rules that I’m going to try to pass on to my children,

another mitzvah

for they bring me great joy.

As well they should.

325 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:36:54pm

re: #323 McSpiff

I read this in a very stereotypical Russian accent… I’ve been at work too long.

Ignore? No! Vee veel reed!

326 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:37:40pm

re: #282 LudwigVanQuixote

An eruv is an enclosure in which you are permitted to carry things on Shabbos. Otherwise carrying is prohibited. There are all sorts of laws as to what constitutes an eruv - I won’t even try to do a short form, because they are among the more complex sets of rules, however, the inside of your home is automatically an eruv.

Interesting. Once the Stargate is re-established would it be possible to build something in relation to the gate and get the whole planet declared an eruv?

I wiki-ed the concept and see that there is a lot of complexity about getting one established and how it acts to declare a sort of temporary collective property for religious purposes.

327 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:38:04pm

re: #325 Sergey Romanov

Ignore? No! Vee veel reed!

in soviet union, posts ignore you!

328 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:38:51pm

Pyorkheps zere shud bee Rashn aksent deiz?

329 ContinentalOp  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:39:24pm

I have a warm place in my heart for Planned Parenthood. When I was 20, they gave my 18-year-old girlfriend a prescription for birth control pills. This was a very long time ago in a very deep southern state, and young, unmarried women had a great deal of trouble finding a doctor who would give them access to the pill.

330 palomino  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:39:33pm

re: #248 Buck

Look you think that it is that easy? I suggest you try it. Hey contact Arianna I hear she is flush, I bet she would pay for it.

I am repeating something I said to someone else when they said what you said.

However, IF the rest of the videos do show a systemic problem of defending and helping child abuse at PP, then instead of just shouting HOAX!, MBF!, FAKE! you should consider helping correct that issue.

So a video has led you to the conclusion that there’s a real possibility of rampant child abuse and prostitution at a family planning organization? Sounds like you’re hopefully reliving the ACORN “scandal”.

331 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:40:11pm

re: #326 oaktree

Interesting. Once the Stargate is re-established would it be possible to build something in relation to the gate and get the whole planet declared an eruv?

I wiki-ed the concept and see that there is a lot of complexity about getting one established and how it acts to declare a sort of temporary collective property for religious purposes.

LOL, you know asking the Rosh Yeshiva about the laws of eruvim as they apply to wormholes in Einsteinian space time would likely make him laugh, and then roll his eyes about expecting me to ask such a thing. If I do ask him, I shall blame you.

332 webevintage  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:40:23pm

re: #248 Buck

However, IF the rest of the videos do show a systemic problem of defending and helping child abuse at PP, then instead of just shouting HOAX!, MBF!, FAKE! you should consider helping correct that issue.

By closing down PP?
Because THAT is the way this ends…

(of course it is a hoax just like the ACORN videos)

334 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:44:53pm

re: #328 Sergey Romanov

Pyorkheps zere shud bee Rashn aksent deiz?

June 22 as “Everyone Speak Like Boris Day”?

335 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:45:36pm

re: #334 oaktree

June 22 as “Everyone Speak Like Boris Day”?

Samsing lajk zet, da.

336 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:45:49pm

re: #333 Sergey Romanov

Coincidently, I am of Russian Jewish extraction. I hchaff peryrfect Roooski accent.

337 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:46:23pm

re: #331 LudwigVanQuixote

LOL, you know asking the Rosh Yeshiva about the laws of eruvim as they apply to wormholes in Einsteinian space time would likely make him laugh, and then roll his eyes about expecting me to ask such a thing. If I do ask him, I shall blame you.

Questions of these sort go way back in Science Fiction. Asimov wrote at least a few short stories involving such religious questions I believe.

338 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:47:32pm

re: #337 oaktree

Questions of these sort go way back in Science Fiction. Asimov wrote at least a few short stories involving such religious questions I believe.

Asimov had more than one rabbi in his genetic woodpile.

339 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:47:39pm

re: #336 LudwigVanQuixote

Coincidently, I am of Russian Jewish extraction. I hchaff peryrfect Roooski accent.

It iz so indid, Lyudvig Kviksotovich!

340 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:48:38pm

re: #336 LudwigVanQuixote

Coincidently, I am of Russian Jewish extraction. I hchaff peryrfect Roooski accent.

We had a gathering of folk in Chicago a few years back who all knew each other due to an IRC chat channel. One of the Russian members was in Vancouver at the time and took pains to attend.

We mystified him for about two days by a few of us trying to get him to say “must capture moose and squirrel”… ;)

341 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:49:31pm

re: #339 Sergey Romanov

It iz so indid, Lyudvig Kviksotovich!

LOL calling me Lyudvig Kviksotovich has got to be the best compliment I’ve gotten here in a very very long time. Thank you so much. You really made my day! No sarcasm.

342 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:50:14pm

re: #340 oaktree

We had a gathering of folk in Chicago a few years back who all knew each other due to an IRC chat channel. One of the Russian members was in Vancouver at the time and took pains to attend.

We mystified him for about two days by a few of us trying to get him to say “must capture moose and squirrel”… ;)

Badenov is more like a Bulgarian surname tho. Not Russian in any case ;)

/ Yes, I know the origin.

343 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:51:05pm

re: #341 LudwigVanQuixote

LOL calling me Lyudvig Kviksotovich has got to be the best compliment I’ve gotten here in a very very long time. Thank you so much. You really made my day! No sarcasm.

Translation for the rest of us?

344 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:51:25pm

re: #341 LudwigVanQuixote

LOL calling me Lyudvig Kviksotovich has got to be the best compliment I’ve gotten here in a very very long time. Thank you so much. You really made my day! No sarcasm.

Actually, since it derives from Don Quixote, it would better be rendered as Lyudvig Kikhotovich, since here Quixote is pronounced as “Kikhot”.

345 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:51:32pm

re: #329 ContinentalOp

I have a warm place in my heart for Planned Parenthood. When I was 20, they gave my 18-year-old girlfriend a prescription for birth control pills. This was a very long time ago in a very deep southern state, and young, unmarried women had a great deal of trouble finding a doctor who would give them access to the pill.

I’ve always been impressed with their professionalism and their warmth. They’ve been hugely helpful when I needed them, and I’ve seen them help friends and relatives at very stressful times.

And they are under constant siege. Once again, I repeat, the ‘activists’ do not go after Kaiser, or bazillions of other big healthcare outfits that routinely perform abortions. They go after a smaller nonprofit that does amazing work every day to keep women healthy.

346 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:51:40pm

re: #342 Sergey Romanov

Badenov is more like a Bulgarian surname tho. Not Russian in any case ;)

/ Yes, I know the origin.

Well, at some point someone showed him a Rocky&Bullwinkle clip on YouTube. He was sorta amused. And we do have a video clip of him saying the catchphrase in any case.

347 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:52:02pm

re: #340 oaktree

We had a gathering of folk in Chicago a few years back who all knew each other due to an IRC chat channel. One of the Russian members was in Vancouver at the time and took pains to attend.

We mystified him for about two days by a few of us trying to get him to say “must capture moose and squirrel”… ;)

I was at a colloquim once where there was a Russian theorist talking about the cosmological constant.

He said something like, “Imagine the answer to the cosmological problem is 42. What would the universe look like?”

He did not understand why so many were laughing out loud. It took some time to explain the reference. He promised that next lecture he would use 50 for the example.

348 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:52:14pm

re: #343 McSpiff

Translation for the rest of us?

Same as Ostin Pauerovich?

349 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:52:37pm

re: #343 McSpiff

Translation for the rest of us?

Just son of Quixote in the patronymic.

350 McSpiff  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:53:33pm

re: #349 LudwigVanQuixote

Just son of Quixote in the patronymic.

Ah right, forgot how Russian names go.

351 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:55:03pm

OK, I see from wiki it’s not pronounced in English as /kvikset/ either: “Don Quixote (/ˌdɒn kiːˈhoʊtiː/”. D’oh.

352 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:56:36pm

re: #340 oaktree

We had a gathering of folk in Chicago a few years back who all knew each other due to an IRC chat channel. One of the Russian members was in Vancouver at the time and took pains to attend.

We mystified him for about two days by a few of us trying to get him to say “must capture moose and squirrel”… ;)

this can happen to americans as well, as i can attest from numerous experiences that when admitting that i am a native of new york city i am likely to be pressured to start tawkin like a fokkin mafia guy in da fokking movies, no matter whether i am in london or in tennesee

353 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:58:16pm

re: #352 engineer dog

this can happen to americans as well, as i can attest from numerous experiences that when admitting that i am a native of new york city i am likely to be pressured to start tawkin like a fokkin mafia guy in da fokking movies, no matter whether i am in london or in tennesee

Yeah, but do ya grab deyre colla and ask whadduyoulookinat when ya do it?

354 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:58:19pm

re: #351 Sergey Romanov

OK, I see from wiki it’s not pronounced in English as /kvikset/ either: “Don Quixote (/ˌdɒn kiːˈhoʊtiː/”. D’oh.

Spanish names diverge a bit with j/x. Texas was Tejas, as I understand, so now in Russian it’s “Tekhas”.

355 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:59:02pm

re: #347 LudwigVanQuixote

I was at a colloquim once where there was a Russian theorist talking about the cosmological constant.

He said something like, “Imagine the answer to the cosmological problem is 42. What would the universe look like?”

He did not understand why so many were laughing out loud. It took some time to explain the reference. He promised that next lecture he would use 50 for the example.

A few weeks back I translated “My hovercraft is full of eels” into Portugese, wrote it on a Sticky note and stuck it up on a whiteboard used for scheduling and notes in a workroom here. As a joke. Confused the heck out of a few Brazilian co-workers since while some of them know of Monty Python that particular phrase was a bit too obscure.*

Eavesdropping on the discussion about the meaning of the note was interesting since there is no direct Portugese word for “hovercraft”, so there was a short discussion about what that meant right off.

* - During the project work here there were 3+ languages in use at times. English, Portuguese, and various Indian dialects from our mix of contractors and employees doing the conversion project. General rule in workrooms was English at all times, but you’d see side groups getting together to discuss activities and such nattering away in one of the others all the time. Gave the floor a real international flavor.

And I’ve been told that the Brazilians here have four different regional accents, but my ear hasn’t developed far enough to differentiate them yet.

356 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:59:40pm

re: #351 Sergey Romanov

OK, I see from wiki it’s not pronounced in English as /kvikset/ either: “Don Quixote (/ˌdɒn kiːˈhoʊtiː/”. D’oh.

…but the ‘x’ is, inconsistantly, pronounced as ‘ks’ when the word is turned into the adjective “quixotic”

357 RadicalModerate  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:00:46pm

re: #299 Buck

“Is Live Action accurately portraying the Planned Parenthood employee’s statements and actions? It’s impossible to say for sure without the full video” (They do have the whole video) So yes, Media Matters is claiming that the woman might not have said what the video alleges. They are trying to create doubt.

Well we clearly define this differently. Calling the video a hoax, and a fake means to ME that the video is somehow changed in order to distort what the viewer sees. NOT that the people making the video were not who they said they were.

Now, maybe it is ONLY ONE EMPLOYEE. We don’t know that yet. It seems there are more videos to be released.

I really have to ask one question regarding Lila Rose’s sting operations.

Given that she and James O’Keefe have been staging these secretly-videotaped visits since 2006, why is it that only ONE heavily-edited (a 5-minute clip of 48 minutes of footage) videotape has been released - the widely-reported one that got the New Jersey employee terminated - that has had any incriminating evidence whatsoever?

In fact, other attempts by LiveAction have the Planned Parenthood workers exhibiting exact opposite behavior than what she is trying to portray - all her other prior (subsequently unedited) video releases have the employees emphatically and repeatedly stating that they are legally bound to report victims of illegal activity-which is what she was trying to goad the employees to circumvent. You’d think that with 5+ years of shooting these videos they would have something to show for it?

358 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:01:12pm

re: #356 engineer dog

Aha. Maybe I’ve heard it in adjective form, it’s certainly a more probable word that Quixote.

359 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:01:39pm

re: #352 engineer dog

this can happen to americans as well, as i can attest from numerous experiences that when admitting that i am a native of new york city i am likely to be pressured to start tawkin like a fokkin mafia guy in da fokking movies, no matter whether i am in london or in tennesee

hehehe. See this all the time.

I get back among Pittsburghers (or western PA relatives) and I find myself starting to drop into “yinzer” now and then to fit in. I also did volunteer work with a bunch that included guys from Wisconsin and Minnesota who would start holding conversations in “yooper” simply as a joke.

360 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:01:52pm

re: #351 Sergey Romanov

OK, I see from wiki it’s not pronounced in English as /kvikset/ either: “Don Quixote (/ˌdɒn kiːˈhoʊtiː/”. D’oh.

On Mr. Rogers there was a puppet known as Donkey Hodie.

361 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:02:58pm

re: #356 engineer dog

…but the ‘x’ is, inconsistantly, pronounced as ‘ks’ when the word is turned into the adjective “quixotic”

On the other hand:

en.wikipedia.org

English speakers generally attempt something close to the modern Spanish pronunciation when saying Quixote/Quijote, as [dɒŋ kiːˈhoʊteɪ], although the traditional English pronunciation /ˈkwɪksət/ or /ˈkwɪksoʊt/ is still sometimes used

362 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:05:42pm

re: #354 Sergey Romanov

A Mongolian friend of mine has the best pronunciation of American stuff. He makes it sound so much cooler.

Texas = Tedjis.

California = Kahleevorn

Nebraska = Nbashkah

Wyoming = Wooahmeeng

Pants = Pangzzsh (this one is really indescribable)

The one word he pronounces absolutely fine?

Oklahoma = Oklahoma.

363 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:06:26pm

re: #362 Obdicut

LOL

364 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:06:43pm

re: #355 oaktree

A few weeks back I translated “My hovercraft is full of eels” into Portugese, wrote it on a Sticky note and stuck it up on a whiteboard used for scheduling and notes in a workroom here. As a joke. Confused the heck out of a few Brazilian co-workers since while some of them know of Monty Python that particular phrase was a bit too obscure.*

Eavesdropping on the discussion about the meaning of the note was interesting since there is no direct Portugese word for “hovercraft”, so there was a short discussion about what that meant right off.

* - During the project work here there were 3+ languages in use at times. English, Portuguese, and various Indian dialects from our mix of contractors and employees doing the conversion project. General rule in workrooms was English at all times, but you’d see side groups getting together to discuss activities and such nattering away in one of the others all the time. Gave the floor a real international flavor.

And I’ve been told that the Brazilians here have four different regional accents, but my ear hasn’t developed far enough to differentiate them yet.

In this context and with keeping with the earlier talk of blessings…

The blessing for a cookie ends with

borei minay mazonot

The full blessing translates as

Blessed are you Lord our G-d, King of the Universe, Who creates various kinds of sustenance. All blessings start with the same formula.

I have heard a story (from a rabbi) though of someone who got their blessings confused and said:

borei pri zonot.

Which means creates the fruit of hookers.

Poor fellow.

365 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:07:59pm

re: #362 Obdicut

A Mongolian friend of mine has the best pronunciation of American stuff. He makes it sound so much cooler.

Texas = Tedjis.

California = Kahleevorn

Nebraska = Nbashkah

Wyoming = Wooahmeeng

Pants = Pangzzsh (this one is really indescribable)

The one word he pronounces absolutely fine?

Oklahoma = Oklahoma.

Mongolia and Oklahoma. Two places thoroughly familiar with wind.

366 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:08:00pm

re: #364 LudwigVanQuixote

facepalm of facepalms

367 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:08:52pm

re: #366 Sergey Romanov

facepalm of facepalms

Yeah… that smarts.

368 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:09:18pm

re: #366 Sergey Romanov

And now I’ve taught the world how to say hooker in Hebrew…

369 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:11:00pm

re: #366 Sergey Romanov

facepalm of facepalms

And for the record there is NO blessing for hookers… Not even a “thank you for what I am about to receive.”

370 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:12:17pm

BTW, Ludwig, a bit of cognitive dissonance for you. Here’s a guy who is veeeery good on debunking creationists, especially YECs (he’s a former YEC himself):

home.entouch.net

At the same time he is a pitiful AGW denier:

themigrantmind.blogspot.com

Used to be his fan before found out.

371 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:12:17pm

re: #368 LudwigVanQuixote

And now I’ve taught the world how to say hooker in Hebrew…

There is a place near Herzlyia called “Hill of Blessings”.

372 BishopX  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:14:50pm

re: #368 LudwigVanQuixote

And now I’ve taught the world how to say hooker in Hebrew…

Is that a mitzah?

373 freetoken  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:15:09pm

re: #370 Sergey Romanov

He’s in transition from magical thinking to something else… perhaps in time he’ll come around.

374 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:15:25pm

re: #370 Sergey Romanov

BTW, Ludwig, a bit of cognitive dissonance for you. Here’s a guy who is veeery good on debunking creationists, especially YECs (he’s a former YEC himself):

[Link: home.entouch.net…]

At the same time he is a pitiful AGW denier:

[Link: themigrantmind.blogspot.com…]

Used to be his fan before found out.

So after complimenting me, I see you wish to off me by causing a head-desk of lethal magnitude.

What are friends for :)

375 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:15:43pm

re: #373 freetoken

He’s in transition from magical thinking to something else… perhaps in time he’ll come around.

This whole thread has had tons of magical thinking… LOL.

376 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:16:19pm

re: #374 LudwigVanQuixote

Zet voz ze plan! Hahahaha!

377 freetoken  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:16:36pm

Farm migrants, living in squalid conditions…

Mexican workers in the US?

No.

Laborers in Spain:

Salad slaves: Who really provides our vegetables?

378 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:17:03pm

re: #374 LudwigVanQuixote

So after complimenting me, I see you wish to off me by causing a head-desk of lethal magnitude.

What are friends for :)

Or he’s leading in for a marketing ploy to sell you one of the new line of Nerf desks…

379 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:17:55pm

re: #373 freetoken

Not really. He’s a staunch theist so he is not in transition from that, and his transition from YECism ended long ago - he’s a petroleum geologist and this leaves no room for YEC fairy tales.

380 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:18:07pm

re: #372 BishopX

Is that a mitzah?

I think you mean mitzvah. A mitzvah is a commandment or an instruction, something you must or should do in your life if it is positive as in honor your parents, or seek justice, or be charitable, or uphold the rights of the widow and the orphan. A negative mitzvah something you must not do as in don’t steal.

381 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:18:25pm

re: #378 oaktree

Or he’s leading in for a marketing ploy to sell you one of the new line of Nerf desks…

OK that was brilliant!

382 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:19:14pm

re: #351 Sergey Romanov

OK, I see from wiki it’s not pronounced in English as /kvikset/ either: “Don Quixote (/ˌdɒn kiːˈhoʊtiː/”. D’oh.

The English say ‘Kwikset’, Americans say ‘kee-HOT-tay’.

383 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:20:14pm

re: #382 SanFranciscoZionist

Hmm, makes sense.

384 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:20:35pm

re: #377 freetoken

Farm migrants, living in squalid conditions…

Mexican workers in the US?

No.

Laborers in Spain:

Salad slaves: Who really provides our vegetables?

Interesting. Thanks for posting that.

385 freetoken  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:20:50pm

re: #379 Sergey Romanov

… he’s a petroleum geologist and this leaves no room for YEC fairy tales.

Heh, he’s trying to avoid blame, I guess.

386 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:21:06pm

re: #358 Sergey Romanov

Aha. Maybe I’ve heard it in adjective form, it’s certainly a more probable word that Quixote.

‘quixotic’, however, is ‘kwik-sot-ik’ on both sides of the Pond.

387 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:21:28pm

re: #361 Sergey Romanov

On the other hand:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

English speakers generally attempt something close to the modern Spanish pronunciation when saying Quixote/Quijote, as [dɒŋ kiːˈhoʊteɪ], although the traditional English pronunciation /ˈkwɪksət/ or /ˈkwɪksoʊt/ is still sometimes used

The French say “Key-SHOAT”

388 freetoken  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:21:58pm

re: #384 Killgore Trout

I didn’t realize how many acres they have under plastic sheeting until I saw that video. It looks like the entire countryside is under plastic.

389 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:22:17pm

re: #386 SanFranciscoZionist

‘quixotic’, however, is ‘kwik-sot-ik’ on both sides of the Pond.

So quixotic Quixote is a bit like pronouncing Sean Bean?

390 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:22:26pm

re: #386 SanFranciscoZionist

‘quixotic’, however, is ‘kwik-sot-ik’ on both sides of the Pond.

Pennsylvania: Key Ought Ic

391 BishopX  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:23:06pm

re: #380 LudwigVanQuixote

I know what a mitzvah is…it was meant as a joke, and the poor spelling detracted from it. It may also have required some sarc tags.

392 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:23:21pm

re: #364 LudwigVanQuixote

In this context and with keeping with the earlier talk of blessings…

The blessing for a cookie ends with

borei minay mazonot

The full blessing translates as

Blessed are you Lord our G-d, King of the Universe, Who creates various kinds of sustenance. All blessings start with the same formula.

I have heard a story (from a rabbi) though of someone who got their blessings confused and said:

borei pri zonot.

Which means creates the fruit of hookers.

Poor fellow.

I once read a piece online by a guy whose Haftorah was the story of Rahab.

He didn’t know what ‘zonah’ meant, so he asked the rabbi, who said it meant ‘caterer’.

He says that he has been thanking his lucky stars from the age of sixteen or so on that he didn’t add a bit to his drash thanking the rabbi’s wife for being such a great zonah.

393 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:23:34pm

re: #388 freetoken

I didn’t realize how many acres they have under plastic sheeting until I saw that video. It looks like the entire countryside is under plastic.

They have areas like that in Morocco too. Miles upon miles of greenhouses growing tomatoes in the desert for European markets.

394 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:25:04pm

re: #389 oaktree

So quixotic Quixote is a bit like pronouncing Sean Bean?

Well, as the Russian saying goes, it is written “Liverpool” and pronounced “Manchester”. Yes, that’s about you, English speakers :P

395 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:26:58pm

re: #394 Sergey Romanov

Well, as the Russian saying goes, it is written “Liverpool” and pronounced “Manchester”. Yes, that’s about you, English speakers :P

The English are very aware of it:
My name is spelt ‘Luxury Yacht’ but it’s pronounced ‘Throatwobbler Mangrove’.

396 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:27:59pm

re: #394 Sergey Romanov

Well, as the Russian saying goes, it is written “Liverpool” and pronounced “Manchester”. Yes, that’s about you, English speakers :P

Marquess of Cholmondeley—-“chumley”.

397 garhighway  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:28:27pm

re: #395 oaktree

The English are very aware of it:
My name is spelt ‘Luxury Yacht’ but it’s pronounced ‘Throatwobbler Mangrove’.

Mine is spelled Weemhausen but pronounced Skecktalusa.

(Courtesy of Bob and Ray.)

398 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:29:48pm

re: #394 Sergey Romanov

Well, as the Russian saying goes, it is written “Liverpool” and pronounced “Manchester”. Yes, that’s about you, English speakers :P

This is what you get when you borrow someone else’s alphabet, and then evolve the language while you’re using it.

Some English writer once did a piece where he’s talking about a place which restored its traditional spelling of its cities after the European nation that had colonized it left. He explains that this would be sort of like England being invaded by people who insisted on spelling “Worcester” as “Woster”. “It might make more sense, but that doesn’t mean we’d like it,” he says.

399 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:30:51pm

How is this one pronounced:

Karma: 0

egilekdahl

(Logged in)
Registered since: Sep 3, 2007 at 7:23 pm
No. of comments posted: 0
No. of Pages posted: 0

?

400 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:32:08pm

Versailles, KY—- “Ver Sails”
Athens, KY—- “Ay Thens”
Cairo, IL—- “Kay Ro”

401 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:34:29pm

re: #400 Decatur Deb

Versailles, KY—- “Ver Sails”
Athens, KY—- “Ay Thens”
Cairo, IL—- “Kay Ro”

Des Plains, Il = Dez Playnz

402 freetoken  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:35:00pm

A thought:

Bush was a classic in [fake folkiness], when he would call everybody “folks.” It got to the point where I thought he was going to start referring to Al Qaeda as “folks,” “these folks who bombed us on 9/11.” The word stops having any meaning if you’re not using it from your heart. Remember when John Kerry was running for president? There was this great joke that they went into McDonald’s and his wife ordered the pheasant, that they were a little out of touch with everyday people. Well, Kerry decides he’s not going to be perceived as a rich guy, notwithstanding reality. So he goes out and buys a Carharrt jacket. And he’s out crossing the country in this thing, and I want to say to him, “Get some mud on it. Or at least take the damn label off of it.” You know? And this fake folksiness is a real poison, a real toxin in our time. And it finds its most haunting and effective expression in the trillion dollar industry that has emerged in the misappropriation of Ronald Reagan for contemporary political agendas that are privately held by an elite few. That’s what has to stop. Reagan himself, for much of his life, was devoted against the elites. His antagonism to the Soviet Union is antagonism against oppression by the elites of the many. And I think that, properly seen, he would see the elites’ oppression in this system as it is happening through information and other forms of oppression by government and by the private sector, and I think he would want to see that cleaned up as much as anyone else. And I think his legacy being brought to bear against that is consistent with the best of him.

That’s the final paragraph in a interview of the film maker who made Reagan, which is supposed to be on HBO tonight. Read the whole interview here:

Interview: Eugene Jarecki on Reagan
403 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:35:31pm

re: #398 SanFranciscoZionist

It gets worse because when you write all the foreign names which are originally in Latin script, you don’t change them for pronounciation (unlike in Russian etc.). Thus you have to know how each name is pronounced originally, or mispronounce it. E.g. “Nagy” (as in “Imre Nagy”) is nowhere near /nagi/, but how would one know?

404 calochortus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:36:33pm

re: #401 wrenchwench

Des Plains, Il = Dez Playnz

Delhi, NY= Dell High

405 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:38:17pm

Louisville KY—- Lew Ah Vul, or Lew Vul

406 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:39:03pm

re: #404 calochortus

Delhi, NY= Dell High

Truth or Consequences, NM = Tee or Cee

407 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:41:03pm

re: #403 Sergey Romanov

It gets even worse e.g. with Vietnamese. I see that in wiki all the names are with diacritics:

The communes are Sơn Đông, Triệu Đề, Đình Chu, Xuân Lôi, Văn Quán, Tiên Lữ, Đồng Ích, Bàn Giản, Tử Du, Liên Hòa, Ngọc Mỹ, Xuân Hòa, Vân Trục, Liễn Sơn, Thái Hòa, Bắc Bình, Hợp Lý, Quang Sơn, and the townships are Lập Thạch, the district seat,[1] and Hoa Sơn.

Any idea of pronunciation?

408 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:47:18pm

re: #405 Decatur Deb

Louisville KY—- Lew Ah Vul, or Lew Vul

that’s
Lewl Vul, keep the L.

409 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:47:32pm

re: #407 Sergey Romanov

It gets even worse e.g. with Vietnamese. I see that in wiki all the names are with diacritics:

Any idea of pronunciation?

Well, I know how to vaguely pronounce the names of my Vietnamese classmates, but I’m probably not the person to teach anyone else.

410 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:48:08pm

Canyon de Chelly, AZ [actually Navajo Nation] = Canyon de Shay

Mogollon, NM = Muggy Own

411 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:48:48pm

Imre Nagy

hungarian spelling is a bit perverse. ‘nagy’ would be something like ‘nadje’, although this j-like sound in hungarian is pronounced with the middle of the toungue touching the roof of the mouth towards the back, not towards the front as in english

and just to be really confusing, ‘s’ in hungarian is pronounced, ‘sh’, but if you want to spell the ‘s’ sound, you need to write ‘sz’, e.g. ‘szeged’

another example is the hungarian expression for i love you: ‘szeretlek’, which hungarians describe as the ugliest sounding way to say it in any known language…

412 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:51:17pm

So I’ve been without Internet access for a few days. Why is this stripper Lila Rose at Planned Parenthood and not slithering around a pole?

413 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:54:36pm

re: #411 engineer dog

Well, here’s how it is pronounced:

forvo.com

In Russian phonetization (sp?) it’s ” Nad’ “, where d’ is “soft d” (actually it’s somewhere between soft /g/ and soft /d/). But that’s my point - in English it’s not customary to transform Latin names to conform to English spelling. Another example - Enver Hoxha. How would one pronounce it without knowing beforehand the Albanian pronunciation? I’m just curious how children or average folks pronounce it. I guess like the English pronounce Quixote ;)

414 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:56:20pm

What are we talking about? Pronunciation?

>>

415 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:57:24pm

re: #413 Sergey Romanov

Well, here’s how it is pronounced:

[Link: www.forvo.com…]

In Russian phonetization (sp?) it’s ” Nad’ “, where d’ is “soft d” (actually it’s somewhere between soft /g/ and soft /d/). But that’s my point - in English it’s not customary to transform Latin names to conform to English spelling. Another example - Enver Hoxha. How would one pronounce it without knowing beforehand the Albanian pronunciation? I’m just curious how children or average folks pronounce it. I guess like the English pronounce Quixote ;)

My first instinct is “EN-vair HO-sha”.

416 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:57:40pm

re: #414 Stanley Sea

What are we talking about? Pronunciation?

>>

What would you like to discuss? ;)

417 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:58:46pm

re: #415 SanFranciscoZionist

Ho-dzha

418 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 3:59:26pm

re: #413 Sergey Romanov

Well, here’s how it is pronounced:

[Link: www.forvo.com…]

In Russian phonetization (sp?) it’s ” Nad’ “, where d’ is “soft d” (actually it’s somewhere between soft /g/ and soft /d/). But that’s my point - in English it’s not customary to transform Latin names to conform to English spelling. Another example - Enver Hoxha. How would one pronounce it without knowing beforehand the Albanian pronunciation? I’m just curious how children or average folks pronounce it. I guess like the English pronounce Quixote ;)

english spelling and pronounciation are so astonishingly inconsistant and varied that metaphone 3 requires several hundred rules to capture all the ways consonants are pronounced in english for english words, names, and non-english words familiar to americans

419 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:00:47pm

re: #416 Sergey Romanov

What would you like to discuss? ;)

What’s happening in Egypt & how much an ass Bill O was.

:)

420 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:01:44pm

OK, nerd period over. Everybody dance! :P

421 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:02:42pm

re: #414 Stanley Sea

What are we talking about? Pronunciation?

>>

Lila Rose is a pretty awesome stripper name.

422 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:07:02pm

everbody start wearing purple wearing purple purple

423 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:07:03pm

re: #421 Jeff In Ohio

Lila Rose is a pretty awesome stripper name.

Up there for sure

424 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:07:45pm

I went out today an explored Portlandia’s legal marijuana scene. There’s a provision in the Oregon law that people with permits can designate a “caretaker” to grow their weed for them. I thought maybe I could use my green thumb to make a few bucks this summer. What I learned is that almost nobody is using the medical marijuana laws for actual illnesses the places that issue the cards are pretty obvious that they’ll give anybody a permit. The only way to legally sell weed is through clubs (we don;t have dispensaries) that run regular “farmer’s markets”. The biggest club is run by Norml. They seem nice enough although the place gave me the creeps.
The whole thing seems kinda silly. Portland cops don;t arrest anybody for weed anymore. The only thing to worry about is the Feds and if they’re going to raid somebody they going to go for the Norml club and the farmer’s market where they can nab a whole bunch of people and a whole bunch of weed in the same place. They aren’t going to bother with small individual growers. Or maybe the feds would just get the list of people with state issued permits and work their way down the list.
I’m still in favor of legalizing weed but the state legalization is pretty pointless.

425 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:12:10pm

re: #420 Sergey Romanov

Nerd period is never over on LGF!
It’s part of what makes this place so interesting.

426 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:14:07pm

re: #422 engineer dog

everbody start wearing purple wearing purple purple


[Video]

Interesting, at 2:45 he goes into “Fried chicken”.

427 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:14:51pm

re: #424 Killgore Trout

I spent all day on the phone with outsourced tech support (I made it to level 3) that my DSL problems were on the phone companies end. Good times. Score one for the patient, but implacable American.

I would have preferred looking at, then smoking weed. But in Ohio, it’s still morning in America.

428 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:16:27pm

re: #427 Jeff In Ohio

But in Ohio, it’s still morning in America.

I hear stories about what goes on in those corn fields.

429 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:17:02pm

re: #428 Killgore Trout

I hear stories about what goes on in those corn fields.

Flattened the fucking corn.

430 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:17:05pm

Last week, this actually happened: An Evening of Glamour with Special Guest Sharron Angle, promoting SeneGence cosmetics! Sharron Angle appeared at a makeup symposium to share “beauty and makeup challenges during the campaign and how she overcame them.”

I can’t believe I missed it!

431 BishopX  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:22:04pm

re: #424 Killgore Trout

Most of the good weed in Boston gets mailed here from northern CA, where it is grown under medical permits… State decriminalization and medical marijuana have changed the whole scene for the better.

432 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:23:05pm

FBI is investigating Scientology

rawstory.com

433 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:24:11pm

re: #431 BishopX

Most of the good weed in Boston gets mailed here from northern CA, where it is grown under medical permits… State decriminalization and medical marijuana have changed the whole scene for the better.

They include proof of that with the shipments?

434 BishopX  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:25:21pm

re: #433 wrenchwench

No, but I’ve had some conversations with kids who worked the grows…

435 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:25:23pm

re: #431 BishopX

Most of the good weed in Boston gets mailed here from northern CA, where it is grown under medical permits… State decriminalization and medical marijuana have changed the whole scene for the better.

Mailed? As in the Feds are toting your weed?

436 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:25:42pm

re: #431 BishopX

Most of the good weed in Boston gets mailed here from northern CA, where it is grown under medical permits… State decriminalization and medical marijuana have changed the whole scene for the better.

Even in California the Feds still bust large scale growers and dispensaries even though the local cops leave them alone. It does make for fewer arrests but the California growers would probably be doing the same thing with or without the the state laws legalizing it.

437 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:26:15pm

re: #432 Obdicut

FBI is investigating Scientology

[Link: www.rawstory.com…]

Won’t say “about time” since it’s a bit too late by now.

438 BishopX  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:26:48pm

re: #436 Killgore Trout

True.

439 calochortus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:27:56pm

re: #431 BishopX

Or its grown on public lands by Mexican drug cartels who have no interest in environmental preservation and whose employees tend to have guns. Makes hiking more exciting…

440 BishopX  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:29:07pm

re: #435 Decatur Deb

Mailed? As in the Feds are toting your weed?

Fake return address, some sort of anonymous pickup arrangement…the worst that happens if the police nab a package is that you lose the weed… which sure as hell beats trafficking charges.

441 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:29:18pm

re: #438 BishopX

True.

I guess the state legalization is helpful to large growers by reducing the chances of getting busted but for small scale operations I don;t see why anybody would bother with it. Users can get permits and go to the clubs but the permits don;t make much sense growers.

442 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:30:21pm

re: #432 Obdicut

Haggis is right, scn destroys critics. Look at what they did to Bob Minton, who, as a millionaire, was a formidable enemy.

443 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:31:33pm

re: #440 BishopX

Fake return address, some sort of anonymous pickup arrangement…the worst that happens if the police nab a package is that you lose the weed… which sure as hell beats trafficking charges.

Freakin’ precious.

444 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:33:04pm

re: #434 BishopX

No, but I’ve had some conversations with kids who worked the grows…

“Medical pot” and “Hospital pot” have been used as marketing terminology for years. Rarely based in fact, especially if the product is going out of state.

445 calochortus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:34:20pm

re: #439 calochortus

Since you aren’t mind readers (are you?) I should add that its grown on public lands in California.

446 BishopX  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:35:05pm

re: #441 Killgore Trout

In CA, each prescription is good for 25 plants….plants can be grown by proxies…growers can have multiple prescriptions…This is what’s shifting the balance away from the Mexican grows on federal land to more traditional agricultural methodology. Keep in mind that all of this is second and third hand from middle class white folks who smoke it, and work on the CA pot harvest but don’t deal it, or traffic it. So take the info with a grain of salt.

447 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:37:15pm

Great. Now I’m jonesing.

448 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:39:38pm

re: #446 BishopX

In CA, each prescription is good for 25 plants…plants can be grown by proxies…growers can have multiple prescriptions…This is what’s shifting the balance away from the Mexican grows on federal land to more traditional agricultural methodology. Keep in mind that all of this is second and third hand from middle class white folks who smoke it, and work on the CA pot harvest but don’t deal it, or traffic it. So take the info with a grain of salt.

The bolded part is a fairy tale. Why would Mexican cartels give up their grows when other growers change their marketing strategies? The cartels’ markets did not change.

449 calochortus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:42:53pm

re: #446 BishopX

Where did you hear the problem of illegal growing on public land was declining? From everything I (a northern Californian) have heard, the problem is increasing dramatically. California pretty much supplies the nation now, and the supposedly the legal and quasi-legal growers are suffering as the price drops because of the volume supplied by the illegal grows. Going out in the hinterlands can be dangerous for hikers and hunters. Warnings have been issued.

450 BongCrodny  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:43:00pm

re: #166 Lidane

“Born-again virgin” has to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard of. There’s no going back once you’ve had sex. It’s like the idiots who think saddlebacking keeps you a virgin.

Just admit you had sex and live with it. If you didn’t like the person you slept with or you made a poor choice, then just be an adult and wait until you’re sure you’re ready again. It really is that simple.


Theoretically, one could be a “born-again virgin” over and over and over again, couldn’t one?

Just sayin’.

451 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:43:38pm

re: #276 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah the holy man was Akiva and the passage is more than a little juicy.

Zedushka and I, for many years, have learned “hot p’shat*” together.

*p’shat=a rabbinic explanation of a scriptural text. There is “pashut p’shat” (simple explanation) and also very complex p’shat.

“Hot p’shats” can be simple or complex. :)

There is a lot of R-rated stuff in the Talmud and Midrash.

452 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:46:43pm

re: #446 BishopX

In CA, each prescription is good for 25 plants…plants can be grown by proxies…growers can have multiple prescriptions…This is what’s shifting the balance away from the Mexican grows on federal land to more traditional agricultural methodology. Keep in mind that all of this is second and third hand from middle class white folks who smoke it, and work on the CA pot harvest but don’t deal it, or traffic it. So take the info with a grain of salt.

That’s about right. There’s a cool documentary about it if you’re interested in how the system works: Green Rush

453 Jadespring  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:47:46pm

Killgore if you haven’t seen this or heard about this it might interest you.

Really, really cool vid of Sepp Holzer and his farm in Austrian Alps.

Quite incredible really a well worth the 30 mins to watch it. Throws a lot of conventional thought out the door. He’s growing lemons up there!

454 BishopX  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:48:01pm

re: #449 calochortus

That figures, most of the my knowledge of the agricultural side is from folks who’ve worked for the semi-legal growers who produce high priced weed…seems like they were inflating how big their share of the harvest was.

455 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:48:51pm

re: #449 calochortus

Where did you hear the problem of illegal growing on public land was declining? From everything I (a northern Californian) have heard, the problem is increasing dramatically. California pretty much supplies the nation now, and the supposedly the legal and quasi-legal growers are suffering as the price drops because of the volume supplied by the illegal grows. Going out in the hinterlands can be dangerous for hikers and hunters. Warnings have been issued.

We have the same problem in Oregon But not nearly as bad. There are occasional incidents when hunters or hikers wander into somebody’s grow area.

456 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:51:32pm

re: #453 Jadespring

Killgore if you haven’t seen this or heard about this it might interest you.

Really, really cool vid of Sepp Holzer and his farm in Austrian Alps.

Quite incredible really a well worth the 30 mins to watch it. Throws a lot of conventional thought out the door. He’s growing lemons up there!


[Video]

Cool!. I’ll try to watch that tonight.

457 Interesting Times  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:51:35pm

re: #444 wrenchwench

“Medical pot” and “Hospital pot” have been used as marketing terminology for years.

But for sheer creativity, you can’t beat…

Pious pot

Oh well. They tried ;)

458 calochortus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:53:03pm

re: #454 BishopX

Probably some wishful thinking in there somewhere. Quasi-legal pot has done great things for the economy of the extreme north west corner of the state, which had been an economic backwater since the end of the glory days of lumbering. Their profits (which tended not to be unreasonable) are down because of the illegal competition.

In addition to the ‘wildland grown’ stuff, hardly a month goes by here that there isn’t a house in the greater Bay Area that had a nasty fire thanks to a grow operation. Just how much of this stuff does the country consume anyway? It seems to be growing everywhere.

459 calochortus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:55:22pm

re: #457 publicityStunted

And that’s why people who want religious practice to be above the law might just want to think twice. Not that I care one way or the other as to whether people smoke pot.

460 Jadespring  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:56:30pm

re: #456 Killgore Trout

Cool!. I’ll try to watch that tonight.

It’s one of those, “for decades people called him nuts and that things he was doing were impossible but now the results are hard to refute” things.

Inspiring really.

461 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 4:57:44pm

re: #458 calochortus

Yes, and they’re all in the unoccupied in foreclosure homes in LA as well.

462 calochortus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 5:03:08pm

re: #461 Floral Giraffe

We could probably solve all the government’s funding problems with a small tax on pot.

463 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 5:05:01pm

re: #460 Jadespring

It’s one of those, “for decades people called him nuts and that things he was doing were impossible but now the results are hard to refute” things.

Inspiring really.

I gotta see how he grows lemons up there.

464 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 5:05:03pm

Science nerd cat is always on-topic!

cheezburger.com

465 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 5:06:37pm

re: #462 calochortus

We could probably solve all the government’s funding problems with a small tax on pot.

Dave’s not here, man…….

466 calochortus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 5:08:52pm

re: #465 wozzablog

Dave’s not here, man…

I was going to respond with ‘snort’, but perhaps that wouldn’t be the best choice for a drug related joke.

467 calochortus  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 5:11:00pm

On on that note, time to go make dinner.

468 Fozzie Bear  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 5:11:50pm

re: #317 LudwigVanQuixote

It’s at that point that a rabbi would say, no matter how far you take a Jew from synagogue, he is still a Jew inside.

469 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Feb 7, 2011 7:09:12pm

re: #73 Summer

awesome :D


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