Tim Blair, Investigative Reporter

Blogosphere • Views: 13,367

Today, Australian climate change denier Tim Blair breaks a huge blog-related story that had somehow gone unnoticed before he began digging — Blair has uncovered the stunning fact that during the presidential election I was opposed to Barack Obama.

How did Blair discover this amazing amount of heretofore unknown evidence that I’ve changed my mind about Obama? Did he scour the web for deleted posts, diligently searching Google’s cache and the Internet Archive?

Well, actually, no. He searched LGF, using the search tool I programmed, and found a whole lot of posts written by me, all of which are still posted publicly. He must have spent hours finding things that aren’t hidden. Good work, fearless investigator!

I was very opposed to Obama during the election, yep, that’s right. And I’ve learned since then that most of the crap being circulated about Obama was just that — crap. He has not turned out to be a radical leftist at all, despite the continued screaming from the right. On the contrary, he’s shown himself to be a centrist on most issues, and the best evidence is that extremists on both the left and the right are angry at him.

If I had it to do over, I’d vote for Obama without hesitation. I’m very thankful that McCain and Palin aren’t in office.

I’m not even remotely ashamed to admit publicly that I’ve changed my mind about President Obama. And that’s obviously puzzling, confusing, and threatening to petrified brains like Blair’s.

UPDATE at 4/27/10 2:55:38 pm:

Tim Blair updates his post, struggles to understand how a human being can change an opinion, comes up blank:

Johnson hasn’t changed his mind about Obama; he’s changed his mind about his own coverage of Obama.

Which is supposed to be very bad, I think, but I’m not sure because Blair never actually makes a case for it being bad. Yep, I disagree with a lot of the posts I put up during the election. Most of the fears I had about Obama’s associations and foreign policies simply haven’t even come close to materializing.

That doesn’t mean I was wrong to bring up those subjects; during a presidential election, all information about the candidates should be discussed and brought out into the open. But it does mean that I’ve — and here’s the key concept that seems to elude Blair like a pesky buzzing fly of logic he just can’t swat — changed my opinions, due to experience and new information.

The horror.

(Blair calls me “son” in this slightly unhinged rant, which I believe indicates he’s getting a bit hot under his right wing dog collar.)

Jump to bottom

1045 comments
1 pharmmajor  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:25:47am

Charles, we know your opinion on Obama and McCain, but what was your position on Bob Barr.

2 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:27:52am

re: #1 pharmmajor

Charles, we know your opinion on Obama and McCain, but what was your position on Bob Barr.

You know better than to ask that. Republicans aren't allowed to use any position but the missionary position. //

3 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:28:08am

And remember Charles you are not permitted to absorb or react to any reality after you post.
///

What a jerk. As soon as anyone puts "oid" after a word to make a schoolyard insult, you can dismiss them without worry.

4 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:28:58am

Shouldn't the title of the post be "Tim Blair, Cherrypicker of Convenience"?

Shouldn't the title of the post be "Tim Blair, Cherrypicker of Convenience"?

...and...

re: #2 DaddyG

You know better than to ask that. Republicans aren't allowed to use any position but the missionary position. //

Boy, my wife wouldn't be happy about that.

5 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:29:34am

re: #4 MrSilverDragon

Boy, my wife wouldn't be happy about that.

Shun the orthodoxy!

6 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:29:48am

...and... I guess next time I should use preview, too...

7 ShaunP  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:31:12am

Holy shit. That's an awful lot of legwork to make a make a completely pointless argument...

8 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:32:00am

I was also very uncomfortable with Obama's campaign. His past associations and his plans to accept defeat in Iraq were a problem for me. He didn't have much of a political record to look back on and I couldn't figure out if he was a practical leader. He didn't exactly campaign as a moderate but I'm glad he's ruling as one.

9 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:33:02am

re: #7 ShaunP

Holy shit. That's an awful lot of legwork to make a make a completely pointless argument...

It's not pointless to Blair. He obviously sees changing one's mind based on evidence to be a problem.

10 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:34:15am

You know how it goes Charles.

In some circles, if you aren't convinced Obama wants to destroy everything that is good, then clearly you are a leftie. If you change your mind, you are "flippy", and if you aren't angry at the government, in a general and undirected sense, then you hate grandma, apple pie, John Wayne movies, and um... America.

You have to hate the government, and everyone who works within and for it, or you hate America.

It kind of hurts to contemplate that last one, doesn't it? Cognitive dissonance isn't something with which ideologues can be afflicted.

11 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:34:17am

re: #9 Killgore Trout

"An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."

12 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:35:01am

re: #8 Killgore Trout

That first security briefing probably moderates many a President upon taking the reigns of office. Senators and Representatives have the luxury of being the loyal opposition.

13 cliffster  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:35:15am

Wow, get a life Timmah

14 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:35:26am

re: #1 pharmmajor

Bob "oh wow I'm a libertarian now" Barr?

To me, Bob Barr represented the final, cynical sell-out of the Libertarian party. Sure, it's great that Bob Barr says he's had some conversion and realized Libertarianism is the shit. Why does that make him suited for the leadership role in the Libertarian party? Why not someone who's, oh, been a Libertarian for a long time?

15 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:36:29am

re: #11 Dreggas

"An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."

I'm not sure I'd agree with that quote fully. An open mind is a good thing. An open mind without intelligence is not... but I do get what you mean.

16 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:36:34am

re: #12 DaddyG

That first security briefing probably moderates many a President upon taking the reigns of office. Senators and Representatives have the luxury of being the loyal opposition.

I think most of them are aware (more or less) of what's really going on long before they get into office. These guys aren't stupid.

17 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:38:01am

re: #15 MrSilverDragon

I agree an open mind is a good thing and intelligence usually requires an open mind. To the wingnuts a closed-mind, hive-mentality is preferrable to any questioning of anything.

18 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:39:08am

re: #16 Killgore Trout

I think most of them are aware (more or less) of what's really going on long before they get into office. These guys aren't stupid.

Probably- campaigning and governing are two entirely different activities. I'm not exactly thrilled with the noises our candidates are making in Georgia right now- especially those who should know better. Working in government has opened my eyes to the game and I'm not sure I feel any better knowing the depth to which people will feign ignorance in order to be attractive to a constituency.

19 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:40:00am

...of course you don't want to be so open minded that your brains fall onto your shoes.

20 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:40:02am

Tim, and the Murdoch rag he writes for, have never quite managed to understand that sensationalist wedge opinutainment and catchy political buzzword memes can't quite drum up the same frothing frenzy in Australia that they do in the US. Sorry guys - the Australian public as a whole is much more centrist and much more media-cynical.

21 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:41:22am

re: #20 Renaissance_Man

Tim, and the Murdoch rag he writes for, have never quite managed to understand that sensationalist wedge opinutainment and catchy political buzzword memes can't quite drum up the same frothing frenzy in Australia that they do in the US. Sorry guys - the Australian public as a whole is much more centrist and much more media-cynical.


Dang- they get all the best cynics and the best lifeguards. /

22 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:41:54am

re: #2 DaddyG

You know better than to ask that. Republicans aren't allowed to use any position but the missionary position. //

heh. speak for yourself...yippee-kay-yay!

23 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:42:46am

re: #22 Aceofwhat?

heh. speak for yourself...yippee-kay-yay!


I refused to sign the party oath. /

24 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:44:05am

re: #14 Obdicut

Bob "oh wow I'm a libertarian now" Barr?

To me, Bob Barr represented the final, cynical sell-out of the Libertarian party. Sure, it's great that Bob Barr says he's had some conversion and realized Libertarianism is the shit. Why does that make him suited for the leadership role in the Libertarian party? Why not someone who's, oh, been a Libertarian for a long time?


Because he won't hog all the herb? //

25 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:44:44am

re: #21 DaddyG

Dang- they get all the best cynics and the best lifeguards. /

It's not because Australians are any smarter. It's because 24-hour cable media is not widely available, and the free to air news shows don't compete for viewers with increasingly sensationalist garbage. The media just doesn't have the same power it does here.

As for being more centrist, that's mostly because the public as a whole is more politically educated. This is because voting is compulsory, and the nation as a whole is better off for it.

26 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:45:06am

HOLD THE PRESSES!

A person can change his mind when presented with new information?

WHEN THE FUCK DID THIS SHIT START?

27 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:46:03am

Little Green Footballs is so irrelevant that it merits a 3,000 word post every couple of months. And its entire history must be scrutinized.

28 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:46:07am

re: #11 Dreggas

"An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."

Thanks a lot, Librarian

29 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:46:14am

Wow... there must of been a lot of crap circulating about Obama... I just don't like his policies or positions... simple for me.

30 shiplord kirel  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:46:46am

Some of us are more than a little angry and embarrassed at the bill of goods the wingnut media machine managed to sell us two years ago.
Fool me once.....

31 Yashmak  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:47:15am

The truly sad thing, is that the only realistic alternatives were McCain or Obama.

32 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:48:15am

re: #29 Walter L. Newton

Wow... there must of been a lot of crap circulating about Obama... I just don't like his policies or positions... simple for me.

You forget. His policies, positions, statements, and decisions have no bearing on being opposed to him. His father was Kenyan, so we can just focus on that to the exclusion of all other reasons.

33 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:48:19am

Teabagger meltdown:

34 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:48:44am

re: #32 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You forget. His policies, positions, statements, and decisions have no bearing on being opposed to him. His father was Kenyan, so we can just focus on that to the exclusion of all other reasons.

I'm not a birther... what the fuck are you talking about?

35 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:49:04am

So the burning question still remains, do you put mustard on your cheeseburger?

36 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:49:37am

The problem with wingnuttery is that it obscures real differences in opinion and policy. But worrying about debt load and increased Federal control over large segments of the economy just isn't as sexy as Kenyan Born Commie headlines.

I'm sure the Dems in the room can attest to some frustration with the moonbats distracting from more substantial policy issues.

37 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:49:45am

And once again, my faith that some posts have no need for a sarc tag is rudely shattered.

38 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:49:59am

re: #8 Killgore Trout

I was also very uncomfortable with Obama's campaign. His past associations and his plans to accept defeat in Iraq were a problem for me. He didn't have much of a political record to look back on and I couldn't figure out if he was a practical leader. He didn't exactly campaign as a moderate but I'm glad he's ruling as one.

I loved the Obama campaign. I have stickers, signs, buttons, all kinds of junk. I went to quite a few rallies, one with him and another with Hillary (whom I supported and actually, she really won Florida, but shitbag Dean wouldn't let her votes get counted and I realize this is a runon sentence and I should be pissed off about Hill losing, but I'm fucking used to it at this point and I'll shut up now.).

Anyway, I feel sorry for those who now support him that they missed all that hoopla. It was wonderful. I felt tied to so many different kinds of people. It was a great energy, a great sense of unity, and a great campaign to be rooting for.

39 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:51:05am

re: #35 darthstar

So the burning question still remains, do you put mustard on your cheeseburger?

Depends on the mustard. Cheap yellow stuff, no way.

40 DaddyG  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:51:27am

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And once again, my faith that some posts have no need for a sarc tag is rudely shattered.


// Don't snark without the sarc. // A public safety message from the folks at LGF.

41 kazrak  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:51:39am

I'm reminded of the Colbert roast of GWB.

"He believes the same thing Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday. Events can change; this man's beliefs never will."

42 avanti  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:54:13am

re: #41 kazrak

I'm reminded of the Colbert roast of GWB.

"He believes the same thing Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday. Events can change; this man's beliefs never will."



Not true, GWB did come around on AGW and a few other issues, just not that many.

43 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:54:59am

re: #35 darthstar

So the burning question still remains, do you put mustard on your cheeseburger?

when i'm in the mood...

44 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:55:28am

re: #35 darthstar

So the burning question still remains, do you put mustard on your cheeseburger?

Want mayo on that?

45 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:55:55am

re: #35 darthstar

So the burning question still remains, do you put mustard on your cheeseburger?

Blasphemer!

46 Reginald Perrin  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:56:24am

What I don't understand is why Tim Blair would bother making the effort and why an Australian newspaper would publish this story. It's not as if Charles Johnson and LGF are household names in Australia.

A person or persons at News Corp may have a vendetta against Charles and this blog.

47 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:56:57am

re: #33 Dreggas

Teabagger meltdown:

wow

48 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:57:47am

More reaction to David Duke's defense of the Tea Party movement:

I think what's most important here is that we do not lump David Duke, the Tea Party and the KKK together. Because that would just be wrong and irresponsible.

David Duke. Tea Party. KKK. Let me repeat. David Duke. Tea Party. KKK. No lumping.

Please do not confuse the three. Nor believe that the Tea Party, David Duke and the KKK are working together to start a Super White Nationalist Organization. Because I just made that up. And David Duke, the KKK and the Tea Parties don't roll that way.

49 cliffster  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:58:06am

The impact of the internet on politics is still in its infancy. I think with the blog histrionics, we're getting a glimpse of what's to come. It's a pretty ugly picture.

50 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 10:58:26am

re: #33 Dreggas

Hope he doesn't live in Arizona!!

51 AK-47%  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:00:03am

I supported Obama because I found him the better of the two candidates who were running. I tried to find some reason to support McCain, as I did during the 2000 primaries, but could not.

But the current political climate has decayed to the point that one completely embraces an ideology and openly rejects all others, and the notion of changing one's opinion in light of facts does not enter into the equation.

52 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:00:35am

re: #33 Dreggas

Teabagger meltdown:


[Video]

That man needs help. Perhaps medicare could provide him some counseling?

53 researchok  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:00:54am

Blair is an idiot. If the best he can do remain relevant is to beat up on LGF and CJ, his future as a journalist is limited.

54 cliffster  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:01:09am
55 charlz  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:01:31am

re: #49 cliffster

The impact of the internet on politics is still in its infancy. I think with the blog histrionics, we're getting a glimpse of what's to come. It's a pretty ugly picture.

The Internet is still in its infancy. I remain optimistic about eventual results, including on politics.

56 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:02:20am

re: #48 goddamnedfrank

More reaction to David Duke's defense of the Tea Party movement:

heheehe

David Duke ♥ Teabaggers

Oh it so fits on so many levels!

57 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:02:47am

re: #33 Dreggas

Teabagger meltdown:


[Video]

Hooray for dead communists!

58 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:03:15am

I did follow the link to Blair's bizarre post and all I can say is someone needs a new hobby.
Obsess much?

(and the morons in the comments there too...oh the humanity...they got banned...aaarrrrggghhh)

59 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:03:47am

re: #50 marjoriemoon


No kidding, he's from Nicaragua and has an accent. I was talking about this with my future father in law who's an immigrant from panama and he had an interesting take. On the one hand people come here because there is nothing for them in their home country (talking about mexico/latin america/south america) on the other hand you have a lot who come here that are just plain illiterate, don't speak english, and in general never integrate into society here.

He's very much of the opinion that they should be sent back and have to come here legally just as he did. But he doesn't get that if he went to arizona he would probably be one they checked for papers (god help the cop who did that, he gets really annoyed by any "Are you a citizen" questions considering he's been here 30+ years).

60 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:04:10am

re: #8 Killgore Trout

I was also very uncomfortable with Obama's campaign. His past associations and his plans to accept defeat in Iraq were a problem for me. He didn't have much of a political record to look back on and I couldn't figure out if he was a practical leader. He didn't exactly campaign as a moderate but I'm glad he's ruling as one.


same here.

61 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:04:29am

re: #57 Killgore Trout

Hooray for making violent threats in public, on videotape, and getting away with it!

What an asshole.

62 Irenicum  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:05:31am

re: #33 Dreggas

Wow. I gotta hand it to the guy with the camera keeping his cool.

63 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:05:56am

re: #61 Obdicut

and that is the perfect segue into this Quote of the day from Sully's place.

64 Locker  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:06:45am
I’m not even remotely ashamed to admit publicly that I’ve changed my mind about President Obama. And that’s obviously puzzling, confusing, and threatening to petrified brains like Blair’s.

Real conservatives don't "change their mind" or "dynamically react to changing circumstances". They "stay the course" until the car goes right over the cliff and can't understand or accept any other approach.

65 SteveMcG  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:06:49am

If you're an Obama supporter, everybody knows you put mayo on your burger. Seriously, I should have become a lizard years ago. I could have been a genius. I probaby would have gotten kicked off, but I had an awful lot of recent history down pat. Now I have to back that hubris up with some genius analysis of current stuff. Here goes nothing (cross my fingers): Dems won't lose as many seats as people think. I don't think independents will actually swing rightward in significant numbers. Wake me up in November.

66 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:07:03am

re: #59 Dreggas

No kidding, he's from Nicaragua and has an accent. I was talking about this with my future father in law who's an immigrant from panama and he had an interesting take. On the one hand people come here because there is nothing for them in their home country (talking about mexico/latin america/south america) on the other hand you have a lot who come here that are just plain illiterate, don't speak english, and in general never integrate into society here.

He's very much of the opinion that they should be sent back and have to come here legally just as he did. But he doesn't get that if he went to arizona he would probably be one they checked for papers (god help the cop who did that, he gets really annoyed by any "Are you a citizen" questions considering he's been here 30+ years).

i'll bet my dog's life that a 300-member panel of recent legal immigrants would create an immigration policy that would be more widely accepted than anything our Congress will ever create.

(i expect to win, but just in case i lose, i'll get revenge for that little gift the Chihuahua left in the living room this morning. bitch.)

67 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:08:36am

re: #44 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Want mayo on that?

Mayo is Satan's sauce.

68 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:09:36am

re: #65 SteveMcG

In-and-Out puts mayo on every burger. I love 'em.

69 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:09:41am

re: #33 Dreggas

Teabagger meltdown:


[Video]

Dark sided!

70 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:09:50am

re: #64 Locker

Real conservatives don't "change their mind" or "dynamically react to changing circumstances". They "stay the course" until the car goes right over the cliff and can't understand or accept any other approach.

Oh, pshaw!

Not true.

71 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:10:13am

re: #66 Aceofwhat?

Agreed.

72 SteveMcG  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:10:15am

re: #44 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Want mayo on that?

Sorry to step on your post. Must have flat out missed it.

73 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:10:31am

re: #67 darthstar

Mayo is Satan's sauce jizz.

74 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:10:35am

re: #38 marjoriemoon

I loved the Obama campaign. I have stickers, signs, buttons, all kinds of junk. I went to quite a few rallies, one with him and another with Hillary (whom I supported and actually, she really won Florida, but shitbag Dean wouldn't let her votes get counted and I realize this is a runon sentence and I should be pissed off about Hill losing, but I'm fucking used to it at this point and I'll shut up now.).

Anyway, I feel sorry for those who now support him that they missed all that hoopla. It was wonderful. I felt tied to so many different kinds of people. It was a great energy, a great sense of unity, and a great campaign to be rooting for.

I'm glad you had fun...sigh. I still haven't bonded with Obama very well.

75 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:10:53am

re: #69 goddamnedfrank

I watched that one, oh man it was funny.

76 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:11:31am

re: #65 SteveMcG

If you're an Obama supporter, everybody knows you put mayo on your burger. Seriously, I should have become a lizard years ago. I could have been a genius. I probaby would have gotten kicked off, but I had an awful lot of recent history down pat. Now I have to back that hubris up with some genius analysis of current stuff. Here goes nothing (cross my fingers): Dems won't lose as many seats as people think. I don't think independents will actually swing rightward in significant numbers. Wake me up in November.

But this is a 'center-right' country, with Palin on the left side of that scale and Bachmann on the right...or so the story goes.
/
Oh, and I can't stand mayo...support Obama, but hate that white jizz on my burger.

77 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:11:46am

re: #59 Dreggas

No kidding, he's from Nicaragua and has an accent. I was talking about this with my future father in law who's an immigrant from panama and he had an interesting take. On the one hand people come here because there is nothing for them in their home country (talking about mexico/latin america/south america) on the other hand you have a lot who come here that are just plain illiterate, don't speak english, and in general never integrate into society here.

He's very much of the opinion that they should be sent back and have to come here legally just as he did. But he doesn't get that if he went to arizona he would probably be one they checked for papers (god help the cop who did that, he gets really annoyed by any "Are you a citizen" questions considering he's been here 30+ years).

It's so crazy. I live in Miami and I've seen this kind of excitement at rallies.

I have a few friends from Nicaragua. One fled with her family during the Iran/Contra scandal basically with the clothes on their backs. They made their way to Panama until they could get to the states. Kind of like my grandparents fleeing from Europe.

She's a kind, funny person my friend, but there's an undercurrent of bitterness. If you cross her once, that's it. You're dead to her. She doesn't forgive anyone. That's not a good trait, but I think I understand where it comes from.

78 Randall Gross  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:12:13am

"petrified brains".... I like that.

79 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:12:41am

re: #73 Mad Al-Jaffee

Heh...just used 'jizz' in my reply to SteveMcG...normally avoid using that word as it tends to cause a gag reflex in some people.

80 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:13:05am

/So you were against Obama before you were for Obama, FLIP FLOPPER!

81 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:13:12am

Hopenchange was not a lie.

82 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:14:18am

re: #79 darthstar

Heh...just used 'jizz' in my reply to SteveMcG...normally avoid using that word as it tends to cause a gag reflex in some people.

Depends on how experienced she is. ;)

83 Mark Pennington  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:15:28am

I'm sure my comment on that site will be deleted by the moderator and not posted.

84 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:16:18am

So...what the hell was the point of Blair's post???

85 Jadespring  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:16:42am

I guess this wouldn't be a good thread to announce that one of my cooking plans today is making up the weekly batch mayonaise.

86 RurouniKenshin  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:17:11am

I was much the same--I was so confused and disillusioned by the presidential candidates I abstained from voting for either of them (though I voted for all the local and federal things otherwise).

If I knew then what I know now I'd have voted for Obama in a heartbeat.

87 SteveMcG  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:17:21am

re: #84 Varek Raith

To prove Charles Johnson has no credibility, that was the point. Normal people just blow that stuff off. His readers will eat it up.

88 bosforus  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:17:37am

Tim Blair's never changed his mind about anything. At 5 years old his ideology was set in stone.

89 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:18:02am

re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm glad you had fun...sigh. I still haven't bonded with Obama very well.

My real love was for The Hill, but once she was out, I started to get in the spirit. And hell, I'm always up for a good party. My husband has been a fan of the O for 2 years prior to the election. (LOL) I don't think I could ever vote Republican. I never have anyway.

90 SteveMcG  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:18:05am

re: #86 RurouniKenshin

I was much the same--I was so confused and disillusioned by the presidential candidates I abstained from voting for either of them (though I voted for all the local and federal things otherwise).

If I knew then what I know now I'd have voted for Obama in a heartbeat.

What on Earth didn't you know in November?

91 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:18:23am

Sheesh, some guys at my office ask me to make my spicy noodles for them, then one bitches that they have too much sodium. Don't ask me to cook if you're gonna bitch about how I do it.

92 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:18:53am

re: #65 SteveMcG

Dems won't lose as many seats as people think. I don't think independents will actually swing rightward in significant numbers. Wake me up in November.

It depends what is meant by 'independents'. A lot of 'independents' right now are Tea Partiers who use it to mean that they hate all government, but realistically their votes are Republican and always will be. Other independents are those who are moderate conservatives who have generally been Republican, but who have found that the current Republican party is nothing more than a political subsidiary of the Conservative cult media, and who have distanced themselves from the term. How these people vote, if at all, remains to be seen, but I think it highly unlikely that significant numbers of them will vote Democrat. If their votes are not Republican, they will most likely just not show.

As for true independents, as in centrists who are genuine swing votes, I agree that they won't be turning rightward at all.

93 captdiggs  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:19:07am

re: #8 Killgore Trout

I was also very uncomfortable with Obama's campaign. His past associations and his plans to accept defeat in Iraq were a problem for me. He didn't have much of a political record to look back on and I couldn't figure out if he was a practical leader. He didn't exactly campaign as a moderate but I'm glad he's ruling as one.

My problem with him was always about what direction he would take on foreign policy.
Unfortunately, the direction he chose was exactly what I was uncomfortable with.

94 RurouniKenshin  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:19:18am

re: #90 SteveMcG

What on Earth didn't you know in November?


Mostly it was all the misinformation flying around about how far left Obama was.

*shrug*

I'm not too proud of that I didn't look further into those things, but at least I know it now.

95 reidr  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:19:22am

re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm glad you had fun...sigh. I still haven't bonded with Obama very well.

What would it take? Or, what's holding you back? I ask because you seem like someone who would like him.

96 bosforus  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:20:03am

re: #91 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sheesh, some guys at my office ask me to make my spicy noodles for them, then one bitches that they have too much sodium. Don't ask me to cook if you're gonna bitch about how I do it.

That's pretty rude. Put in extra salt next time.

97 SteveMcG  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:20:11am

re: #89 marjoriemoon

My real love was for The Hill, but once she was out, I started to get in the spirit. And hell, I'm always up for a good party. My husband has been a fan of the O for 2 years prior to the election. (LOL) I don't think I could ever vote Republican. I never have anyway.

Never liked Hill. She would have been a coward in office. I switched R to D to vote in the PA primary, but I wonder how many people actually switched back. That's right, I'm a Republican again. whoopie, I get to vote for Pat Toomey in the primary.

98 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:20:26am

re: #84 Varek Raith

So...what the hell was the point of Blair's post???

Butthurt and blogstalking, the same as most Charles haters.

99 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:20:39am

re: #94 RurouniKenshin

Mostly it was all the misinformation flying around about how far left Obama was.

*shrug*

I'm not too proud of that I didn't look further into those things, but at least I know it now.

Don't worry you can still tell your children and grandchildren that you were part of the biggest Presidential landslide this country has ever seen that didn't involve tapped phone lines when Obama takes on Palin in 2012!

100 Slap  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:21:04am

re: #76 darthstar

A mustard recommendation.

Jack!

Goodness, it's tasty.

Just not on cheeseburgers.

101 SteveMcG  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:21:44am

re: #92 Renaissance_Man

Tea Partiers aren't as independent as you think. They just don't want to admit that they're R's when polled. They think it makes them look more distinctive.

102 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:22:34am

re: #100 Slap

It's a good 'un.

Me, I like pure horseradish on practically all my red meat.

103 Liet_Kynes  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:22:48am

Since the election, I have seen it both ways – anti Obama people become ok with Obama and vice versa. I think that is an indication of people not knowing who Obama was during the election.

re: #49 cliffster

The impact of the internet on politics is still in its infancy. I think with the blog histrionics, we're getting a glimpse of what's to come. It's a pretty ugly picture.

I agree with this. Internet politics is in its terrible twos and rather much out of control. It is very hard to read anything out there without running into name calling, slander, calumny, etc. The internet tends to bring out the worst in people for some reason.

---

104 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:23:28am

re: #100 Slap

I can haz burbun burger?

105 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:23:59am

re: #89 marjoriemoon

My real love was for The Hill, but once she was out, I started to get in the spirit. And hell, I'm always up for a good party. My husband has been a fan of the O for 2 years prior to the election. (LOL) I don't think I could ever vote Republican. I never have anyway.

I liked Hillary up until the moment she started pushing the birther bullshit. She died to me that day. It was a cynical move then, and she gave birth to a monster. (birthers) She might be very savvy, and may have made a good president, but she is more than just a tough political player. She's simply got no actual principles, imo.

106 Jadespring  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:24:01am

re: #100 Slap

A mustard recommendation.

Jack!

Goodness, it's tasty.

Just not on cheeseburgers.

I like mustard and mayo mixed together on my burgers.

I also use a mustard mayo mix on french fries.

107 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:24:03am

re: #89 marjoriemoon

My real love was for The Hill, but once she was out, I started to get in the spirit. And hell, I'm always up for a good party. My husband has been a fan of the O for 2 years prior to the election. (LOL) I don't think I could ever vote Republican. I never have anyway.

I'm still nursing a grudge about Hillary, I may always nurse this grudge.

Oh well, it could have been worse. (Sarah Palin, a heartbeat away from the presidency.)

108 Slap  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:24:26am

re: #104 Mad Al-Jaffee

You has enuf burbun, u kin has ennyting.

109 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:25:11am

re: #101 SteveMcG

Tea Partiers aren't as independent as you think. They just don't want to admit that they're R's when polled. They think it makes them look more distinctive.

I don't think they're independent at all, hence my statement.

110 ShaunP  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:25:29am

re: #107 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm still nursing a grudge about Hillary, I may always nurse this grudge.

Oh well, it could have been worse. (Sarah Palin, a heartbeat away from the presidency.)

You can be damned sure Palin would never reassess her own decisions!

111 bosforus  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:25:45am

re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm glad you had fun...sigh. I still haven't bonded with Obama very well.

Me either. But I find myself reacting to the far right of today the same way I reacted to the far left in the Bush days. I just can't stand the way people attack whoever is in charge. It's despicable.

112 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:25:47am

re: #92 Renaissance_Man

And in November when the GOP plan to 'Take Back the Country' is an epic failure of extraordinary magnitude, will they repeat what the Dems did in 02-06 and turn the crazy up to 11 or will it knock some of the saner people back into reality.

I'm thinking they will go the Crazy up to 11 route. Shame...

113 BlackFedora  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:26:50am

That's the thing about extremists. It doesn't matter if they are political extremists or religious extremists or what but its absolutely forbidden anyone ever change their mind. God forbid anyone change their mind about an issue. You've got to crystallize your belief system and stick to it until kingdom come. They have it in their heads that you cannot change your mind and do so because you sat down and used reason... its because you are just a miserable mentally ill intellectual light weight or you're being offered a lot of money or you're some kind of shill or whore... the ridiculousness goes on and on.

I feel I've got somewhat of an understanding of this because I've been guilty of extremism in the past (religious and political) and learned from that mistake.

I don't know that I would vote for Obama like Charles declares he would but I definitely think he's being reasonable and isn't shilling or is having some sort of psychotic break from reality like some posters at Hot Air and other places suggest.

114 Sacred Plants  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:26:58am

"Centrist" is code for big government.

/FISA

115 cliffster  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:26:59am

re: #100 Slap

A mustard recommendation.

Jack!

Goodness, it's tasty.

Just not on cheeseburgers.

How about on a Le Big Mac?

116 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:27:29am

re: #92 Renaissance_Man

It depends what is meant by 'independents'. A lot of 'independents' right now are Tea Partiers who use it to mean that they hate all government, but realistically their votes are Republican and always will be. Other independents are those who are moderate conservatives who have generally been Republican, but who have found that the current Republican party is nothing more than a political subsidiary of the Conservative cult media, and who have distanced themselves from the term. How these people vote, if at all, remains to be seen, but I think it highly unlikely that significant numbers of them will vote Democrat. If their votes are not Republican, they will most likely just not show.

As for true independents, as in centrists who are genuine swing votes, I agree that they won't be turning rightward at all.

I don't think the Teabaggers* are Independents at all. If McCain won the election, there would have never been this movement. This is a rightwing movement. They may say they're Independent because they want to appear like they're not associated with any one party, but that's bullshit.

I would also hope that the true Independents, if they are left leaning, would register as Dems so they can vote in the primary. We need their votes.

*and btw until Charles tells me to stop, I will continue to call them teabaggers. That's exactly the image that I have of them

117 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:28:21am

re: #105 Fozzie Bear

I liked Hillary up until the moment she started pushing the birther bullshit. She died to me that day. It was a cynical move then, and she gave birth to a monster. (birthers) She might be very savvy, and may have made a good president, but she is more than just a tough political player. She's simply got no actual principles, imo.

At the risk of having selective memory, when did she get into the birther movement?

118 SteveMcG  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:28:38am

While I was watching the "Tea Party Meltdown" youtube, "Alie's Restaurant" was playing on Itunes. Now it's "I'm Free". Omen, you think?

119 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:28:58am

re: #95 reidr

What would it take? Or, what's holding you back? I ask because you seem like someone who would like him.

Mostly it's just a personality thing, I suppose, and lingering disappointment over Hillary. I don't dislike him, I just don't have a whole lot of enthusiasm for him. He's a perfectly good Democrat--I just never caught the excitement over him. He's fine.

120 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:30:29am

re: #107 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm still nursing a grudge about Hillary, I may always nurse this grudge.

Oh well, it could have been worse. (Sarah Palin, a heartbeat away from the presidency.)

What's the grudge?

121 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:30:29am

re: #108 Slap

You has enuf burbun, u kin has ennyting.

Image: funny-pictures-cat-is-drunk.jpg

122 SteveMcG  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:30:31am

re: #117 marjoriemoon

At the risk of having selective memory, when did she get into the birther movement?

It might have been that time she said "... as far as I know" when asked if he's Muslim.

123 reidr  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:30:41am

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

Butthurt and blogstalking, the same as most Charles haters.

Butthurt and blogstalking sounds like either attorneys-at-law or a superhero duo, I'm not sure which.

124 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:30:43am

re: #116 marjoriemoon

I don't think the Teabaggers* are Independents at all. If McCain won the election, there would have never been this movement. This is a rightwing movement. They may say they're Independent because they want to appear like they're not associated with any one party, but that's bullshit.

I would also hope that the true Independents, if they are left leaning, would register as Dems so they can vote in the primary. We need their votes.

*and btw until Charles tells me to stop, I will continue to call them teabaggers. That's exactly the image that I have of them

Don't worry they're proud to call themselves that. Why else would Charles have found that pick of the guy who turned it into an uplifting anagram...

Unless.....

HE WAS A LIBERAL PLANT! (DUN-DUN-DUHHHHHH!)

125 badger1970  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:31:24am

re: #117 marjoriemoon

PUMA movement, looking for link.

126 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:31:46am

re: #116 marjoriemoon

I don't think the Teabaggers* are Independents at all. If McCain won the election, there would have never been this movement.

Ding, ding, ding.

127 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:32:53am

re: #120 marjoriemoon

What's the grudge?

You mean you haven't been here for one of my Hillary meltdowns? "OH GOD!!! HILLARY!!! IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN YOU!!! THEY GAVE THE JOB TO A MAN!!! A YOUNG MAN!!! HILLLLLLAAAAAARRRRRREEEEEEEE!!!"

Like that

128 SteveMcG  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:33:33am

Go here while you can:

[Link: www.tudou.com...]

It's upposed to be South Park 201

129 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:34:36am

re: #117 marjoriemoon

At the risk of having selective memory, when did she get into the birther movement?

With the help of an ardent supporter of hers, Philip J. Berg, she started it. She later disavowed it because I think she realized it was toxic, but she started it.

She's not dumb. She understands the nativist strain to which that sort of tactic appeals, and yet she ran with it.

So yeah, you can thank Hilary for giving that whole meme life, and giving it the political cover of not being a "fringie" idea, but rather a mainstream one. Disavowing it AFTER the fact doesn't make it any less despicable.

130 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:34:56am

re: #9 Killgore Trout

That's an interesting point-We had good apparent reason to consider the farther left inclinations, given his background and the severe anti Bush feelings by the Dems. Looked like a run by the left, to the left for the left.

Yes, like Clinton, the reality has moderated the candidate.

131 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:36:32am

re: #125 badger1970

PUMA movement, looking for link.

PUMA's? Bah... assholes. Screw the PUMAs. I got so pissed, I tried posting on their site and they kept deleting me. I wasn't even nasty. I was seriously trying to explain to them they had go with the winner. Your guy doesn't always win. So? Some people were really never taught how to bow out gracefully.

It's was really hard to separate reality from truth in 2008 and I glossed over a lot of stuff that I couldn't put together.

132 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:37:01am

re: #116 marjoriemoon

The Tea Party movement pre-dated Obama. It was originally libertarians hand wringing about Bush, the Patriot Act, various Alex Jones-esque conspiracies, and big-govt republicans. A McCain election wouldn't have changed that. They just would have gotten zero press coverage.

133 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:37:28am

re: #123 reidr

Butthurt and blogstalking sounds like either attorneys-at-law or a superhero duo, I'm not sure which.

It's like a loser version of the Ambiguously Gay Duo, only with less fashion sense and with a militant hatred of anything they disagree with.

//

134 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:37:29am

re: #129 Fozzie Bear

With the help of an ardent supporter of hers, Philip J. Berg, she started it. She later disavowed it because I think she realized it was toxic, but she started it.

She's not dumb. She understands the nativist strain to which that sort of tactic appeals, and yet she ran with it.

So yeah, you can thank Hilary for giving that whole meme life, and giving it the political cover of not being a "fringie" idea, but rather a mainstream one. Disavowing it AFTER the fact doesn't make it any less despicable.

I'm gonna need some proof of that Foz ole Boy! I really don't recall that at all. I'll look for it.

135 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:37:57am

re: #41 kazrak

Welcome, hatchling.

136 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:38:18am

re: #132 ArchangelMichael

The Tea Party movement pre-dated Obama. It was originally libertarians hand wringing about Bush, the Patriot Act, various Alex Jones-esque conspiracies, and big-govt republicans. A McCain election wouldn't have changed that. They just would have gotten zero press coverage.

Really?? So where were these Teabaggers prior to January 2009? Having a cup of Earl Gray?

137 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:39:07am

re: #103 Liet_Kynes

The internet tends to bring out the worst in people for some reason.

---

The internet proves, I think, that most people are truly ugly, vile and despicable at heart. I'm a big believer in the idea that 'character is who you are in the dark'. In other words, character is the sort of person you are when nobody's there to see you, when nobody will ever know what you did. The internet is the ultimate in anonymity. People are free to say any ugly thing, bully and threaten and whatever, and they are incredibly unlikely to be ever found out. Furthermore, there are no consequences - nobody's going to reach through the monitor and slap you, no matter how much you might deserve it.

It's often said by people that 'he's not really like that, just on the net'. On the contrary, I think how people are on the net is exactly who they really are. They may not act that way in real life, where consequences exist and there's no anonymity, but that's the sort of person they are deep down.

In general, humans have failed the test of character the internet has asked of us. And that's very, very sad.

138 alexknyc  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:39:11am

I'm a little concerned about Obama's foreign policy but I agree with Charles.

I didn't vote for Obama but it's looking like I may in 2012.

139 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:39:19am

re: #131 marjoriemoon

PUMA's? Bah... assholes. Screw the PUMAs. I got so pissed, I tried posting on their site and they kept deleting me. I wasn't even nasty. I was seriously trying to explain to them they had go with the winner. Your guy doesn't always win. So? Some people were really never taught how to bow out gracefully.

It's was really hard to separate reality from truth in 2008 and I glossed over a lot of stuff that I couldn't put together.

I'm not sure how real the PUMA thing ever was. I know a couple of people who were Democrats and committed Hillary people, didn't care for Obama, and didn't vote for him, or anyone. Given that all of these people live in California, this was purely an act of personal loyalty with no chance of harming the party.

I recall that in the days coming up to the election on this site, a lot of people were counting on the PUMAs to give McCain the election, which was nonsense. But quite a lot of the old guard here did not seem to get that Obama was going to win. It was pretty clear some time out, but they just couldn't adapt to the idea.

140 SteveMcG  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:39:31am

re: #128 SteveMcG

Screw it, it's censored too.

141 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:40:03am

re: #132 ArchangelMichael

The Tea Party movement pre-dated Obama. It was originally libertarians hand wringing about Bush, the Patriot Act, various Alex Jones-esque conspiracies, and big-govt republicans. A McCain election wouldn't have changed that. They just would have gotten zero press coverage.

They also wouldn't have gotten the numbers, or the support from GOP officials, or the pundit boosts...

142 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:41:23am

re: #128 SteveMcG

Go here while you can:

[Link: www.tudou.com...]

It's supposed to be South Park 201

The link works and there's no black boxes. Nice.

143 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:41:26am

One of the managers just walked thru our office.

"Why the hell is everyone eating noodles?"

144 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:41:43am

re: #8 Killgore Trout

I was also very uncomfortable with Obama's campaign. His past associations and his plans to accept defeat in Iraq were a problem for me. He didn't have much of a political record to look back on and I couldn't figure out if he was a practical leader. He didn't exactly campaign as a moderate but I'm glad he's ruling as one.

Yes, I agree, but I don't like your use of the word "ruling". "Leading" maybe.
Not ruling!

145 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:41:50am

re: #132 ArchangelMichael

The Tea Party movement pre-dated Obama. It was originally libertarians hand wringing about Bush, the Patriot Act, various Alex Jones-esque conspiracies, and big-govt republicans. A McCain election wouldn't have changed that. They just would have gotten zero press coverage.

And zero help from Fox News....

146 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:41:56am

re: #112 ArchangelMichael

And in November when the GOP plan to 'Take Back the Country' is an epic failure of extraordinary magnitude, will they repeat what the Dems did in 02-06 and turn the crazy up to 11 or will it knock some of the saner people back into reality.

I'm thinking they will go the Crazy up to 11 route. Shame...

Well, I don't think it will be a failure. I think they'll gain seats. In fact, it's guaranteed they'll gain seats. They have a very good shot at gaining control of the House. They won't control the Senate, but if they regain control of the House it will be seen as a vindication of the truly idiotic politics of the Conservative media, and the crazy will definitely increase.

If they don't regain control of the House, it's hard to say what will happen. It's possible the rage will be unsustainable and the movement will disappear up its own fundament. It's also possible that the rage will explode in a truly unpleasant way.

147 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:42:09am

re: #139 SanFranciscoZionist

But quite a lot of the old guard here did not seem to get that Obama was going to win. It was pretty clear some time out, but they just couldn't adapt to the idea.

I must admit, I was surprised. I feel a little foolish for it.

148 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:42:09am

re: #143 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Update to yesterday's email fiasco?

149 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:42:40am

re: #136 marjoriemoon

Really?? So where were these Teabaggers prior to January 2009? Having a cup of Earl Gray?

They were getting zero press coverage. Look around Luap Nor related sites and you'll find evidence of Tea Parties going back to mid-Bush Administration if not longer. But they were fringe kooks worse than ANSWER and Code Pinkos so the MSM ignored them, and The Right-wing blog/talk radio/FOX sphere marginalized them as anti-war kooks if they acknowledged them at all. It wasn't until the 'Sekrit Moozlim Kenyan Commie Fascist' got into office that the Right embraced this movement.

There's a reason 9/11 troofers show up at Tea Parties... they were there first.

150 reidr  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:43:04am

re: #130 Rightwingconspirator

That's an interesting point-We had good apparent reason to consider the farther left inclinations, given his background and the severe anti Bush feelings by the Dems. Looked like a run by the left, to the left for the left.

Yes, like Clinton, the reality has moderated the candidate.

The right wing (pundits, talk radio, bloggers) has been painting him as far-left for a long time, including during the campaign. Hanging out with radical black ministers and terrorists, #1 most liberal Senator, socialist... it all seemed like smears to me even then and was way out of whack with his actual statements and policies. I never got the feeling he was lying just to seem like a centrist. Fortunately, I was right!

151 freetoken  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:43:23am

re: #8 Killgore Trout

He didn't exactly campaign as a moderate but I'm glad he's ruling as one.

Moderate - not sure what that really means, but I do seem to recognize parts of Obama's governing philosophy. It reminds me of the Clintonian "triangulation". The idea is that the President plots a policy part way towards what his opposition claims (or claimed) to want, but close enough to your own base not to lose it completely. The net result is the taking of ground from the opposition.

The Republicans have not done themselves proud. To keep differentiating themselves from the triangulating Obama they've continued to go right wing. Yes, some were there anyway, but Obama's health care package ended up being closer to what some Republicans would have done (given past ideas floated) then they are willing to admit now.

If John McCain has reached the point where he is endorsing the AZ profiling legislation, and Graham has given up on any energy/climate bill, then there are no GOP leaders left who are not willing to give up the middle ground, at least on contentious issues. The so called "moderate" Republicans of the Senate - Snow and Collins, usually don't step up to lead.

In foreign policy and the judiciary perhaps an old hand like Lugar might keep the right wing philosophy at bay, but his time is limited.

152 bosforus  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:43:43am

re: #137 Renaissance_Man

In general, humans have failed the test of character the internet has asked of us. And that's very, very sad.

The only thing the internet has asked me is if I'm sure I want to navigate away from a page and if so to not click the Do Not Cancel button. The only way to pass the test of avoiding the virus is to Ctrl+Alt+Delete that crap and end the firefox.exe process.
Screw the internet.

153 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:44:44am

I for one would settle on seeing divided government come back into being.

Charlie Cook at CookPolitical.com has a pretty sane analysis of things both here and here.

Insofar as "reform" is concerned - that was what had attracted me to McCain and i had hoped to see some earnest reform out of Obama. I am not. Health Care Reform was about recasting political constituencies with insurers and pharma reaping big rewards and simply having to put up with be demonized to get there.

Same thing is now happening with Financial Reform given that we have Senate leadership trying to hasten the end of further compromise on "too big to fail bailouts" in order to get a floor vote before the very mechanisms that will guarantee Goldman Sachs and other big players a permanent risk advantage are stripped from the bill. So in one ring you have a circus swearing at Goldman Sachs execs while in the next ring you have Reid et al trying to preserve the "Too big to fail" slush fund that will protect the big players and result in diverting even more capital away from investments that create jobs and improve productivity.

Not that the Republicans are any better. They aren't and wouldn't be. The prescription drug benefit under Bush was as socialist as anything Obama has done and was coolly calculated to bring pharma campaign dollars into Republican districts. Looks like Obama figured out a way to get those fickle pharma guys to give the blue team money if you look at open secrets.

It is all very sad and our country is getting less and less competitive as politicians carve out more economic distortions in search of votes. Have no illusions - The red team does it. The blue team does it. And the word "reform" in Washington really means "deform".

154 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:45:40am

re: #148 Floral Giraffe

Update to yesterday's email fiasco?

All three parties are being spoken to by management and HR. Turns out the sender had a legitimate bitch, but he screwed himself with this email.

155 sagehen  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:45:44am

re: #127 SanFranciscoZionist

You mean you haven't been here for one of my Hillary meltdowns? "OH GOD!!! HILLARY!!! IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN YOU!!! THEY GAVE THE JOB TO A MAN!!! A YOUNG MAN!!! HILLLAAARRREEE!!!"

Like that

I might have liked Hillary just fine on her own merits, but I've really had it with next-of-kins. I don't know that I can ever again not look sideways at any candidate who's the offspring/spouse/sibling/etc of a previous holder of high office.

156 The Yankee  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:46:04am

I know it is water under the birdge, but it is still hard for me to get over that sometime Charles use to stand up for Ann Coulter's act. That was the reason why i thought Charles was nothing but another political hack.

But over time i realize all the stuff he wasn't posting and was filter out of criticizing.

157 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:47:22am

re: #127 SanFranciscoZionist

You mean you haven't been here for one of my Hillary meltdowns? "OH GOD!!! HILLARY!!! IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN YOU!!! THEY GAVE THE JOB TO A MAN!!! A YOUNG MAN!!! HILLLAAARRREEE!!!"

Like that

Ok. I don't think I read you correctly upthread then. I thought you had a grudge against her.

All that freakin mess in Florida with changing the primary date which meant no one could campaign in Florida or they would lose their votes. Then they said Hillary campaigned so we're not going to count her votes, or maybe we'll split her votes 1/2 to her and 1/2 to Obama. WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?? YOU'RE GIVING MY VOTE TO OBAMA???

Thomas Jefferson, where are you????

Of course, Chairman Dick Dean with HIS selective memory because Obama also campaigned here. I SAW HIM HERE AT THE UM CAMPUS. I HAVE PICTURES. Dean says, "Nope, can't count Hillary's votes!" Oh really now??

Gads, I can't go over this again. I get really pissed :p

158 sagehen  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:47:29am

re: #130 Rightwingconspirator

That's an interesting point-We had good apparent reason to consider the farther left inclinations, given his background and the severe anti Bush feelings by the Dems. Looked like a run by the left, to the left for the left.

Yes, like Clinton, the reality has moderated the candidate.

I never considered Obama to be extreme left, and I was especially offended by the anti-Michelle hysteria. For godssake people, she's Claire Huxtable.

159 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:48:32am

re: #158 sagehen

The attacks on Michelle were some of the ugliest crap I've seen in awhile.

160 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:49:30am

re: #147 wrenchwench

I must admit, I was surprised. I feel a little foolish for it.

I was pushing for McCain as well, and I was thinking the same way. I wasn't a fan of Obama, but he's the president now, and he gets my support. I'm definitely glad that Palin isn't VP (not too happy about Biden, but that's the way it goes, he's there, deal with it).

Hell, I sure wouldn't want that job (and I wouldn't have a chance in hell of winning if I did run).

161 EastSider  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:51:05am

Has anyone ever done a "blind" survey where they put forward unlabeled positions (e.g., just stating what the plans are for something like finance reform etc) to determine support when things aren't labeled as Dem, Repub, or Obama sponsored?

162 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:52:42am

re: #139 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not sure how real the PUMA thing ever was. I know a couple of people who were Democrats and committed Hillary people, didn't care for Obama, and didn't vote for him, or anyone. Given that all of these people live in California, this was purely an act of personal loyalty with no chance of harming the party.

I recall that in the days coming up to the election on this site, a lot of people were counting on the PUMAs to give McCain the election, which was nonsense. But quite a lot of the old guard here did not seem to get that Obama was going to win. It was pretty clear some time out, but they just couldn't adapt to the idea.

I left here, pretty much in Sept 2008, in fact, the weekend Palin was announced. I got into a terrible row and realized that I couldn't come back here anymore. If things remained as they were, I never would have returned.

No flounce either, I just poofed. Imagine that. The Non-Flounce Flounce!

The PUMAs at least gave an impression of being organized and a "force" of some sort.

163 freetoken  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:52:53am

re: #130 Rightwingconspirator

Before the election I took several of the online so-called political philosophy tests - "where do you stand" or "which candidate thinks like you", etc.

Most of the time I ended up half way beteen Ron Paul (gulp) and Rudy, but in the charts the sites would plot (with little images of all the candidates) I noticed that they placed Obama closer to the center than several of the other Dems.

I think often candidate Obama was presented (by the political attack machines) as a far left radical often based on two things: his name (sounding Muslim to many), and his attendance at TCC. Yet his voting record showed that he tended to more of a compromiser than those who wised to paint him as a radical leftist would allow. One example was that certain environmental groups would not support Obama because he (being from Illinois where the industry is important) wasn't against nuclear energy.

164 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:53:37am

I didn't vote for Obama. There is just something about the man I don't quite trust. That being said, I think he's turned out better than I thought he was going to be, and given how McCain and Palin have evolved since the election, he was the better choice between the two.

165 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:54:10am

re: #158 sagehen

I never considered Obama to be extreme left, and I was especially offended by the anti-Michelle hysteria. For godssake people, she's Claire Huxtable.

She is political in some ways, but she's never done anything nasty. She in no way deserves the attacks heaped on her.

166 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:54:16am

re: #149 ArchangelMichael

They were getting zero press coverage. Look around Luap Nor related sites and you'll find evidence of Tea Parties going back to mid-Bush Administration if not longer. But they were fringe kooks worse than ANSWER and Code Pinkos so the MSM ignored them, and The Right-wing blog/talk radio/FOX sphere marginalized them as anti-war kooks if they acknowledged them at all. It wasn't until the 'Sekrit Moozlim Kenyan Commie Fascist' got into office that the Right embraced this movement.

There's a reason 9/11 troofers show up at Tea Parties... they were there first.

Wow. I certainly am remiss in my Teabagger history!

167 reidr  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:54:34am

re: #119 SanFranciscoZionist

Mostly it's just a personality thing, I suppose, and lingering disappointment over Hillary. I don't dislike him, I just don't have a whole lot of enthusiasm for him. He's a perfectly good Democrat--I just never caught the excitement over him. He's fine.

I can understand that. The primary race was as emotional as the main contest. A lot of Hillary supporters were extremely, rabidly anti-Obama, and I'm sure still are.

Similarly, my support of Obama during the primary was at least partially driven by my disappointment in Hillary. I thought she got too political and nasty. And even though she's been a fine SoS, I'm... not an enthusiastic supporter.

168 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:55:33am

re: #155 sagehen

I might have liked Hillary just fine on her own merits, but I've really had it with next-of-kins. I don't know that I can ever again not look sideways at any candidate who's the offspring/spouse/sibling/etc of a previous holder of high office.

Not me. I'd vote for Bill again and again and again and again.

169 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:56:05am

re: #162 marjoriemoon

I left here, pretty much in Sept 2008, in fact, the weekend Palin was announced. I got into a terrible row and realized that I couldn't come back here anymore. If things remained as they were, I never would have returned.

No flounce either, I just poofed. Imagine that. The Non-Flounce Flounce!

The PUMAs at least gave an impression of being organized and a "force" of some sort.

I remember when I heard Palin was the VP nomination, I thought "What the hell is this shit?" and resigned myself to the fact.

170 Liet_Kynes  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:56:38am

re: #137 Renaissance_Man

... I'm a big believer in the idea that 'character is who you are in the dark'. In other words, character is the sort of person you are when nobody's there to see you, when nobody will ever know what you did. The internet is the ultimate in anonymity.

It's often said by people that 'he's not really like that, just on the net'. On the contrary, I think how people are on the net is exactly who they really are. They may not act that way in real life, where consequences exist and there's no anonymity, but that's the sort of person they are deep down.

In general, humans have failed the test of character the internet has asked of us. And that's very, very sad.

I agree. The internet allows people to manifest what is going on in their minds directly …they operate on the internet without their verbal filters on.

I would go further and suggest that not only do most people have a dark streak to them, but they also have a deep sense of self hatred. They wear masks of pride and puff themselves up to cover-up how miserable, weak, and cowardly they feel about themselves. Hitting other people verbally is just transference – makes them feel powerful while smacking in others that which they don’t like about themselves.

Tis a shame really what it says about the human condition.

171 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:57:46am

re: #151 freetoken

As an FYI, Graham had the rug pulled out from him on the climate bill.

He was trading the cap and trade indulgence system for nuclear power which would have provided a 24hr energized grid that could move to GHG emissions free status in a few decades without having to wait on "smart grid" fairy dust or any further squabbling over locating wind farms out of sight of Cape Cod yacht clubs and placing them in the red state hinterlands instead.

It was, IMO, an earnest compromise with huge political costs to Graham (by going against the wing nut grain) intended to solve a real problem yet he is abused by all parties for it while Reid gets off the hook for killing it.

172 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:58:45am

re: #171 karmic_inquisitor

The reason he gave for walking out on climate change was the immigration bill.

173 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:58:46am

re: #169 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I remember when I heard Palin was the VP nomination, I thought "What the hell is this shit?" and resigned myself to the fact.

Think about this for a second...if John McCain hadn't "picked" Sarah Palin, she'd never have taken the national stage, and all we'd know about her would be the few news reports about an Alaskan governor up to her ass in investigations for abuse of power.

Now, she's like herpes. We'll never be rid of her.

174 Reginald Perrin  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 11:58:58am

re: #148 Floral Giraffe

You and Dark Falcon have mail

175 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:00:00pm

re: #165 Dark_Falcon

She is political in some ways, but she's never done anything nasty. She in no way deserves the attacks heaped on her.

I think it's only fair to expect the first lady to be political, even Nancy Regan got involved with the "Just Say No" stuff....

176 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:00:13pm

re: #156 The Yankee

I know it is water under the birdge, but it is still hard for me to get over that sometime Charles use to stand up for Ann Coulter's act. That was the reason why i thought Charles was nothing but another political hack.

But over time i realize all the stuff he wasn't posting and was filter out of criticizing.

I don't recall him standing up for Ann Coulter. Must have missed that.

Charles has a good heart and is a good person. I haven't agreed with everything he says, but probably 90% of it. Good enough for me. I don't think I agree with anyone 100% anyway.

177 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:00:46pm

re: #172 Obdicut

The reason he gave for walking out on climate change was the immigration bill.

Which is different from his reason for not supporting an immigration bill - climate change. Lindsey Graham is about as authentic as Lindsey Lohan.

178 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:00:59pm

re: #174 Reginald Perrin

None here...

179 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:02:34pm

re: #168 marjoriemoon

Not me. I'd vote for Bill again and again and again and again.

Bill Cliton is like the Glenn Quagmire of politicians, you may not care for his sex life, but he's a fun guy to be around and he was good for the country....

180 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:02:44pm

re: #146 Renaissance_Man

Well, I don't think it will be a failure. I think they'll gain seats. In fact, it's guaranteed they'll gain seats. They have a very good shot at gaining control of the House. They won't control the Senate, but if they regain control of the House it will be seen as a vindication of the truly idiotic politics of the Conservative media, and the crazy will definitely increase.

If they don't regain control of the House, it's hard to say what will happen. It's possible the rage will be unsustainable and the movement will disappear up its own fundament. It's also possible that the rage will explode in a truly unpleasant way.

I'm just standing by to see how it goes. Common sense says they'll gain, all the TPer nonsense and the witchhunt for RINOs is the wild card on how much. Also, as always, the economy.

181 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:03:22pm

re: #147 wrenchwench

I must admit, I was surprised. I feel a little foolish for it.

No need. I was caught flat-footed by 2004, going 'say what'?

182 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:03:57pm

re: #170 Liet_Kynes


I would go further and suggest that not only do most people have a dark streak to them, but they also have a deep sense of self hatred. They wear masks of pride and puff themselves up to cover-up how miserable, weak, and cowardly they feel about themselves.


You only say that because you're inferior to me and jealous of my magnanimous greatness and superior sense of self love.
///

183 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:04:56pm

Palestinians test out Gandhi-style protest

It is strangely quiet. About 40 mainly Palestinian protesters face off with a line of armed Israeli soldiers over coils of razor wire.

They calmly explain they want access to land Israel has confiscated to build its West Bank barrier. Chanting begins, followed by impassioned speeches in Hebrew, English and Arabic.

"You soldiers standing here, blocking Palestinians from walking on their own land, you need to think about what you're doing," lectures one young woman. "What will you tell your children?" asks an older man.

The troops stare impassively ahead.

'Excuse to shoot'

Beit Jala is one of a growing number of Palestinian villages holding regular protests against Israel's occupation of the West Bank.

Many end with Palestinian youths throwing stones and Israeli troops firing tear gas and sometimes rubber-coated bullets.

But organisers in Beit Jala, such as Ahmad Lazza of the Holy Land Trust who trains protesters in non-violent tactics, are determined to keep things peaceful.

This is partly out of personal belief, and partly about avoiding escalation with Israeli soldiers.

"You don't want him to feel threatened, because it is a very good excuse for him to shoot you," he says.

184 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:05:43pm

re: #182 darthstar

You only say that because you're inferior to me and jealous of my magnanimous greatness and superior sense of self love.
///

Have I mentioned lately that I'm immense and immortal?

185 Slap  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:06:03pm

I'm in agreement with most here on this subject. I've been very distressed over the last several years at the growth of the "throw the baby out with the bathwater" mindset that seems to increasingly infect everything political. 'Conservative' senator making a vote for a single 'liberal' law? Hell, vote 'em out! 'Liberal' judge agreeing with a 'conservative' judicial principle? All his/her ideas are therefore useless and anti-American, by cracky!

I've never believed anyone's mind is 100% anything (well, 100% brain material, sure -- at least, that's the working assumption....). We're all an amalgam of everything that finds its way into our mental stew, and I find the idea that a person's ideas are completely invalid simply because one disagrees on a particular given point to be virtually incomprehensible. (Much like my sentences sometimes.) And you might as well also put me firmly in the group that considers the ability to admit one's limitations to be a sign of strength and wisdom, not weakness.

On that note, Ben Stein comes to mind. I find him alternately amusing and annoying, and we're not always in agreement -- but Sunday Morning, I found myself very much in agreement. And this clip actually is in line with the general subject of thinking independently of the herd. (With apologies if this has already been posted....)

186 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:06:30pm

re: #184 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Have I mentioned lately that I'm immense and immortal?


ftfy
/

187 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:06:35pm

re: #184 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Have I mentioned lately that I'm immense and immortal?

Big whoop. I created God.
///

188 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:06:37pm

re: #181 SanFranciscoZionist

No need. I was caught flat-footed by 2004, going 'say what'?

I saw some people around here who felt likewise. One woman admired the way I could keep smiling even after the way that election turned out. She was depressed. I didn't tell her I voted for Bush, I just said, "Politics isn't everything."

189 Reginald Perrin  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:06:59pm

re: #178 Floral Giraffe

None here...

I must have used insufficient postage, what stamp does one use for intergalactic email?

190 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:07:26pm

re: #187 Varek Raith

Big whoop. I created God.
///

Man made god and god made Revlon.
(from the inside cover of a Buzzcock's album, if I recall)

191 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:07:38pm

re: #187 Varek Raith

Big whoop. I created God.
///

But why does God...need a starship?

192 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:07:41pm

I've been fascinated by what appears to be a tentative approach by the far left to the tea party movement. During the past two weeks, Noam Chomsky, Bill Ayers, and Code Pink have all had positive or conciliatory statements about the Tea Party movement. They especially share many positions with the Paulian wing of the far right, especially in foreign policy, attitudes toward law enforcement, and (increasingly) in rabid ODS.
I wonder if the TPers are blinded by their own rhetoric and therefore susceptible to this re-packaged moonbattery. Since they consider Obama, Clinton, and Biden to be Marxists, socialists and enemies of capitalism, they would appear not to even have the terms to recognize the actual extreme left. As a nominal associate of Obama in TP minds, Ayers is an exception but how many TPers are aware of Chomsky or even Code Pink and International ANSWER?. Could the tea party movement be co-opted by the far left? Probably not, but many far left groups, especially anarchists, could easily attach themselves to the tea parties.

193 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:08:26pm

re: #183 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Encouraging news. I'm doubtful it'll become a trend. Sure hope it does. Israel should support this sort of behavior strongly.

194 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:08:29pm

re: #169 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I remember when I heard Palin was the VP nomination, I thought "What the hell is this shit?" and resigned myself to the fact.

I bought the image they were selling. Despite a couple of interview gaffes, they did a pretty damn good job of keeping Palin hidden in the attic for the most part.

Now that I know better, all I can say is *phew*.

195 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:08:33pm

re: #191 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But why does God...need a starship?

It was the only way he could get a date with Grace Slick.

196 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:09:07pm

re: #168 marjoriemoon

Not me. I'd vote for Bill again and again and again and again.

At some Hillary event during the primary, here in California, there was a very charming older man with a slight Mexican accent and a very authentic-looking cowboy hat. He explained to the reporter that with President Clinton, the economy had been very good, and America had been greatly respected, and that when Mrs. Clinton was president, her husband would help her, and the good times would come again.

I knew just how he felt.

197 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:09:13pm

re: #191 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But why does God...need a starship?

He was bored?
:P

198 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:09:34pm

re: #189 Reginald Perrin

I must have used insufficient postage, what stamp does one use for intergalactic email?

Quatloos!

199 The Yankee  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:09:36pm

re: #176 marjoriemoon

I could find it for you. One of them she says something insightful about Jews to prove a point.

It not the amount of things i disagree with some one with it is just, ill god Ann Coulter. She is just there to be mean and insightful to make money and get attention.

200 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:09:47pm

re: #176 marjoriemoon

Charles has a good heart and is a good person. I haven't agreed with everything he says, but probably 90% of it. Good enough for me. I don't think I agree with anyone 100% anyway.

It's a not-uncommon situation: when people thought I towed the line, I was a friend. When people learned I had differing opinions, I became an "asshole". (I know that sounds familiar to a lot of people here.)

I doubt there's anyone out there that I agree with 100%, but just because I may disagree with someone, that doesn't mean I suddenly lose all respect for them. Apparently for some, however, it does. It's a shame.

201 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:09:51pm

re: #172 Obdicut

The reason he gave for walking out on climate change was the immigration bill.

Did you read the letter he wrote? I know that TPM and others left the details out but he was justifiably outraged as should anyone else who is concerned about GHGs and our insane energy policies.

202 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:10:12pm

re: #195 darthstar

It was the only way he could get a date with Grace Slick.

Oh, dear...she doesn't look like the rocker she used to.

203 Mark Pennington  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:10:13pm

re: #150 reidr

The right wing (pundits, talk radio, bloggers) has been painting him as far-left for a long time, including during the campaign. Hanging out with radical black ministers and terrorists, #1 most liberal Senator, socialist... it all seemed like smears to me even then and was way out of whack with his actual statements and policies. I never got the feeling he was lying just to seem like a centrist. Fortunately, I was right!

I was familiar with him several years before he ran for POTUS. I already knew he was very reasonable and centrist. A lot of my more liberal friends believed the lies and smears and are disappointed he isn't as leftist as they hoped he'd be.

204 jvic  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:10:17pm

I voted for Obama in 2008, but I will would rather not do so in 2012.

Why do I equivocate? Here is an example of what happens when somebody remonstrates with the wingnut Right. (The link goes to Google cache because iirc Charles does not want to send traffic to the originating site.)

Btw, I conjecture that Obama will pick Hillary for VP in 2012. (Unless there's a foreign-policy disaster on her watch, of course.) Come to think of it, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if that was part of the deal when she was offered the State Department.

205 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:10:40pm

re: #193 Obdicut

Encouraging news. I'm doubtful it'll become a trend. Sure hope it does. Israel should support this sort of behavior strongly.

It is hopeful. However my underlying cynicism leads me to believe its only a matter of time before some asshole uses one of the protests as cover for a suicide bombing.

206 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:10:49pm

re: #187 Varek Raith

Big whoop. I created God.
///

Right, like you think you were the first to do so?

207 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:10:52pm

re: #169 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I remember when I heard Palin was the VP nomination, I thought "What the hell is this shit?" and resigned myself to the fact.

I was amused, and entertained, and even vaguely wondering if I might vote for McCain, for about fifteen minutes. Then she opened her mouth at the convention, and I realized that that wasn't no spunky Alaskan governor, that was that gott-damn Culture Wars Loch Ness Monster again!

208 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:11:25pm

re: #206 Slumbering Behemoth

Right, like you think you were the first to do so?

STOP RAINING ON MY PARADE!111!
/
:)

209 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:12:16pm

re: #179 jamesfirecat

Bill Cliton is like the Glenn Quagmire of politicians, you may not care for his sex life, but he's a fun guy to be around and he was good for the country...

Was that a purposeful typo, sweetie??

210 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:12:48pm

re: #189 Reginald Perrin

I must have used insufficient postage, what stamp does one use for intergalactic email?

Reply sent.

211 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:12:51pm

re: #192 Shiplord Kirel

Could the tea party movement be co-opted by the far left? Probably not, but many far left groups, especially anarchists, could easily attach themselves to the tea parties.

It's already happening. The Larouche crowd are far left and are tolerated by the Tea Parties. Code Pink and the Paulians have been friends for a long time. Now that the Paulian/Alex Jones mindset is spreading on the right groups like Code Pink can probably join the movement with a little bit of work. Code Pink could change their rhetoric slightly, maybe hide certain views and the Tea Parties would accept them.

212 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:13:32pm

re: #192 Shiplord Kirel

I've been fascinated by what appears to be a tentative approach by the far left to the tea party movement. During the past two weeks, Noam Chomsky, Bill Ayers, and Code Pink have all had positive or conciliatory statements about the Tea Party movement. They especially share many positions with the Paulian wing of the far right, especially in foreign policy, attitudes toward law enforcement, and (increasingly) in rabid ODS.
I wonder if the TPers are blinded by their own rhetoric and therefore susceptible to this re-packaged moonbattery. Since they consider Obama, Clinton, and Biden to be Marxists, socialists and enemies of capitalism, they would appear not to even have the terms to recognize the actual extreme left. As a nominal associate of Obama in TP minds, Ayers is an exception but how many TPers are aware of Chomsky or even Code Pink and International ANSWER?. Could the tea party movement be co-opted by the far left? Probably not, but many far left groups, especially anarchists, could easily attach themselves to the tea parties.

I think Bin Laden once said something or other about a strong horse...

213 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:14:03pm

"Fools! I'll show you how 'fuckin' magnets' work! Away Patches! We've clowns to obliterate!"

214 freetoken  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:14:46pm

re: #192 Shiplord Kirel

As KT tried to show early on, the Paulians were the important initiators of Tea Party-ism. That the anarchist-sympathizers now find kin with Tea Partiers would not be a total shock.

The religious right sort of came to the Tea Party late, and tried to make it a God and Country type of thing.

There are several people out there now who claim to be part of the Tea Party founding fathers.

The one person that seems to bridge them all is Sarah Palin! This isn't surprising, as her affiliations with the Alaska Independence Party puts her right next to Ron Paul, and her RR following puts her right next to Focus on the Family. Thus Sarah Palin is all things to all Tea Partiers.

Chomsky no doubt sees the Tea Partiers as a way to put himself back in the news.

215 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:15:32pm

re: #213 Slumbering Behemoth

"Fools! I'll show you how 'fuckin' magnets' work! Away Patches! We've clowns to obliterate!"

Hah! Looking at that picture, all I could think of was, "They may take our lives, but they'll never take our freedom!"

216 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:15:33pm

re: #187 Varek Raith

Big whoop. I created God.
///

I taught Elvis how to make fried banana sandwiches.

217 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:16:01pm

re: #198 Floral Giraffe

Quatloos!

There is no currency, my book told me so.

"In fact, there are three freely convertible currencies in the universe, but the Altairian Dollar has recently collapsed, the Flainian Pobble Bead is only exchangeable for other Flainian Pobble Beads, and the Triganic Pu doesn’t really count as money. It’s exchange rate of six Ningis to one Pu is simple, but since a Ningi is a triangular rubber coin six-thousand, eight-hundred miles long each side, no one has ever collected enough to own one Pu. Niginis are not negotiable currency because the Galactic Banks refuse to deal in fiddling small change. From this Basic premise it’s very simple to prove that the Galactic Banks are also the products of a deranged imagination. "

218 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:16:03pm

re: #185 Slap

Ben Stein seems so reasonable sometimes that when he's not, that's when people don't believe him. I think it was Richard Metzger who, when he was interviewing Charles, said Stein didn't believe what he said in "Expelled". Or couldn't possibly believe it, or something. If he made "Expelled" for some other reason than to express his own views, that's not good. If he believes what he said in "Expelled", he's not smart.

219 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:16:26pm

re: #211 Killgore Trout

It's already happening. The Larouche crowd are far left and are tolerated by the Tea Parties. Code Pink and the Paulians have been friends for a long time. Now that the Paulian/Alex Jones mindset is spreading on the right groups like Code Pink can probably join the movement with a little bit of work. Code Pink could change their rhetoric slightly, maybe hide certain views and the Tea Parties would accept them.

I'm not totally sure the Larouche crowd is far left. I've never been sure what they are at all, and I mean that in species and genus type way.

220 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:17:22pm

re: #207 SanFranciscoZionist

I was amused, and entertained, and even vaguely wondering if I might vote for McCain, for about fifteen minutes. Then she opened her mouth at the convention, and I realized that that wasn't no spunky Alaskan governor, that was that gott-damn Culture Wars Loch Ness Monster again!

Something about the pitch of Palin's voice triggers a severe twitch in me. There is an actual physical response when I hear her twang.

221 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:17:29pm

re: #215 MrSilverDragon

"They may take our lives, but they'll never take our cookies!"
... would have been better, but I still have "fuckin' magnets" on the brain. Curse you, stupid clowns!

222 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:17:32pm

re: #201 karmic_inquisitor

He was not justifiably outraged. If he wants to be outraged at something, he should focus on the massive amounts of disinformation that the GOP puts out about AGW. That'd be neat.

223 The Left  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:18:38pm

re: #9 Killgore Trout

It's not pointless to Blair. He obviously sees changing one's mind based on evidence to be a problem.

And isn't that a perfect illustration of AGW denialist thinking in itself?

Seriously, of all people, it's not surprising that Tim Blair would see 'evaluating evidence and revising conclusions based on the evidence' as a grave intellectual flaw.

These folks aren't interested in rational thought, and consider honest inquiry and the capacity to revise your opinion as a kind of apostacy.

224 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:18:48pm

re: #201 karmic_inquisitor

Did you read the letter he wrote? I know that TPM and others left the details out but he was justifiably outraged as should anyone else who is concerned about GHGs and our insane energy policies.

Those policies now have no chance whatsoever to be addressed because the Blue Team saw an opportunity to kick the Red Team in the teeth in the runnup to and election that looks to have momentum for the Red Team.

Meanwhile, politically correct greenhouse gasses like Nitrogen Trifluoride (17,000 times the forcing of C02 with an atmospheric persistence of nearly 100 years - and it is not a naturally occurring gas) escape regulation (especially since almost all semiconductors, solar panels and flat screen toys are made in China) and king coal still energizes the grid.

But hey - Harry is in trouble and needs his base fired up so we will shift from striking a fast track compromise on climate/energy and go to the vastly more divisive issue of nationalizing the stupid neo-Mechamism in Arizona where there is no hope whatsoever of effecting compromise.

Gotta scare those constituents while abandoning all other responsibilities.

Good news for both the Red Team and the Blue Team (gotta have a good civil war brewing to get those voters motivated to vote straight tickets). Bad news for America.

225 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:18:57pm

re: #214 freetoken

As KT tried to show early on, the Paulians were the important initiators of Tea Party-ism. That the anarchist-sympathizers now find kin with Tea Partiers would not be a total shock.

The religious right sort of came to the Tea Party late, and tried to make it a God and Country type of thing.

There are several people out there now who claim to be part of the Tea Party founding fathers.

The one person that seems to bridge them all is Sarah Palin! This isn't surprising, as her affiliations with the Alaska Independence Party puts her right next to Ron Paul, and her RR following puts her right next to Focus on the Family. Thus Sarah Palin is all things to all Tea Partiers.

Chomsky no doubt sees the Tea Partiers as a way to put himself back in the news.

Another factor that may work in favor of all this is that many of the people in the Tea Party range seem to have completely lost interest in supporting foreign encounters now that the CinC isn't to their liking. They're already starting to back away from the wars. (I mean, my God, you've got Orly Taitz wanting to accuse Obama of war crimes in Afghanistan.) That will create another area of common interest.

226 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:19:30pm

re: #223 iceweasel

And isn't that a perfect illustration of AGW denialist thinking in itself?

Seriously, of all people, it's not surprising that Tim Blair would see 'evaluating evidence and revising conclusions based on the evidence' as a grave intellectual flaw.

These folks aren't interested in rational thought, and consider honest inquiry and the capacity to revise your opinion as a kind of apostacy.

Remind you of anyone else we know?

227 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:20:10pm

re: #221 Slumbering Behemoth

"They may take our lives, but they'll never take our cookies!"
... would have been better, but I still have "fuckin' magnets" on the brain. Curse you, stupid clowns!

Heh, yup, yours is definitely better. :)

228 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:20:56pm

re: #223 iceweasel

Only RINOs leave the Talking Point Plantation.

229 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:21:54pm

re: #204 jvic

I voted for Obama in 2008, but I will would rather not do so in 2012.

Why do I equivocate? Here is an example of what happens when somebody remonstrates with the wingnut Right. (The link goes to Google cache because iirc Charles does not want to send traffic to the originating site.)

Btw, I conjecture that Obama will pick Hillary for VP in 2012. (Unless there's a foreign-policy disaster on her watch, of course.) Come to think of it, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if that was part of the deal when she was offered the State Department.

I checked out that link, read the comments, and cannot for the life of me comprehend what planet you would have to be from to think Charles is a "nutter" as he is referred to in those comments. WTF did you do Charles? Did you break into their homes and rape their toasters in front of their kids? Did you smear your nipples with feces and sing Volare, naked, in a local shopping mall?

Oh, that's right. You failed to toe the party line. I don't agree with everything you espouse, but Jesus Effing Krikey, I haven't seen you say one thing that makes me want to back away slowly while saying soothing things to keep you from biting me.

The Right has fucking lost it. Gone. I am no longer just a liberal, I am the fucking enemy. I am apparently the very heart of evil itself, according to many, because I don't entirely despise the idea of an effective federal government.

230 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:21:57pm

re: #225 SanFranciscoZionist

Another factor that may work in favor of all this is that many of the people in the Tea Party range seem to have completely lost interest in supporting foreign encounters now that the CinC isn't to their liking. They're already starting to back away from the wars. (I mean, my God, you've got Orly Taitz wanting to accuse Obama of war crimes in Afghanistan.) That will create another area of common interest.

Some of those people are long-time paleocons who are only now shining brighter than the neocons. I can see now how the opposition to neocons was not all from the left.

231 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:22:29pm

re: #200 MrSilverDragon

It's a not-uncommon situation: when people thought I towed the line, I was a friend. When people learned I had differing opinions, I became an "asshole". (I know that sounds familiar to a lot of people here.)

I doubt there's anyone out there that I agree with 100%, but just because I may disagree with someone, that doesn't mean I suddenly lose all respect for them. Apparently for some, however, it does. It's a shame.

The majority of the stalkers are idiots. They always were, well to me. I never had much in common with them. But even when they were here, I enjoyed the conversation because it made me stretch my mind and challenged my opinions. Even if I came away feeling stronger about my own opinions. Over THERE, they all agree with each other. They're quick to say that they welcome differing opinion, but that's easy to say when there is none. Unless spacejesus shows up and pisses them off.

232 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:23:10pm

The good thing about all of this is that if Michelle Bachmann ends up sharing a stage with Noam Chomsky, there will be no more 'tu quoque', there will be no more 'our nuts' and 'your nuts', there will only be 'our nuts', for they will all be one in the Wingularity.

233 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:24:25pm

re: #227 MrSilverDragon

It wouldn't even occurred to me without reading yours first. Like I said, I still have "fuckin' magnets" on the brain.

As to the picture itself, if that were my kid, I would commission an artist to create a huge oil painting of that pic with a dramatic background, and hang that over my mantel.

234 The Left  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:25:22pm

re: #226 Dark_Falcon

Remind you of anyone else we know?

Yeah, most of the GOP now. Certainly all the right wing pundits.

In the future when someone writes the history of what happened to the GOP in the runup to 2008 and the years after, they can title it "No One Here Gets Out Alive."

235 jvic  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:25:42pm

re: #223 iceweasel

These folks aren't interested in rational thought, and consider honest inquiry and the capacity to revise your opinion as a kind of apostacy.

Thanks for the tip, Ice.

The next time I try to communicate with the crazy Right, I'm gonna say that this is what the L-rd showed me after three days of fasting and prayer. (HT: Michele Bachmann)

236 badger1970  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:25:49pm

re: #233 Slumbering Behemoth

To discourage future suitors?

237 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:26:39pm

re: #233 Slumbering Behemoth

It wouldn't even occurred to me without reading yours first. Like I said, I still have "fuckin' magnets" on the brain.

As to the picture itself, if that were my kid, I would commission an artist to create a huge oil painting of that pic with a dramatic background, and hang that over my mantel.

It's a fantastic photo! That kid is either going to become Catherine the Great, or Madeline Kahn.

238 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:26:47pm

re: #204 jvic

I voted for Obama in 2008, but I will would rather not do so in 2012.

Why do I equivocate? Here is an example of what happens when somebody remonstrates with the wingnut Right. (The link goes to Google cache because iirc Charles does not want to send traffic to the originating site.)

Btw, I conjecture that Obama will pick Hillary for VP in 2012. (Unless there's a foreign-policy disaster on her watch, of course.) Come to think of it, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if that was part of the deal when she was offered the State Department.

No way, no how will Obama change VPs come his next election unless Biden dies. I'm pretty sure one guy did that once and he got nailed for it. Did George Bush Sr. not run with Dan Quayle in 1992 even though he was dumb as a box of hammers, couldn't spell "potatoe" and got in a feud with a TV character?

Let me put it for you this way, if Bush could have run for a third term, would he have picked someone besides Dick Cheney as a running mate?

239 The Yankee  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:27:06pm

re: #231 marjoriemoon

The majority of the stalkers are idiots. They always were, well to me. I never had much in common with them. But even when they were here, I enjoyed the conversation because it made me stretch my mind and challenged my opinions. Even if I came away feeling stronger about my own opinions. Over THERE, they all agree with each other. They're quick to say that they welcome differing opinion, but that's easy to say when there is none. Unless spacejesus shows up and pisses them off.

Conformity is a hard drug to quite.

240 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:27:34pm

re: #236 badger1970

To discourage future suitors?

And encourage just the right kind.

241 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:27:38pm

re: #235 jvic

Thanks for the tip, Ice.

The next time I try to communicate with the crazy Right, I'm gonna say that this is what the L-rd showed me after three days of fasting and prayer. (HT: Michele Bachmann)

The Lord is RINO!!!

242 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:27:46pm

re: #234 iceweasel

Yeah, most of the GOP now. Certainly all the right wing pundits.

In the future when someone writes the history of what happened to the GOP in the runup to 2008 and the years after, they can title it "No One Here Gets Out Alive."

Like the Judean People's Front's crack suicide squad:

243 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:28:42pm

Can someone explain this "magnet" thing???

244 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:29:13pm

A little from my perspective....I was (kudos to SFZ) a Hilareee supporter, was fortunate enough to attend a high flautin fund raiser for her where she came across as stellar. Then Obama won the primary. So I look into him & basically like what I see.

What really cemented my support though, is the outrageous outrage that kept occurring. Remember lipstick on a pig? The terrorist fist bump?? It's very psychological how the false negatives put me more into his corner eh? I believe that's what has happened to many.

245 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:29:30pm

re: #243 Varek Raith

Can someone explain this "magnet" thing???

Insane Clown Posse reference...they have some rap lyric about 'fuckin' magnets' - I think they're trying to use them as evidence of god...or something.

246 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:29:44pm

re: #243 Varek Raith

It's pretty basic chemistry

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

247 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:30:45pm

re: #237 wrenchwench

A young lady could do a lot worse than to emulate Madeline Kahn.

248 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:31:07pm

re: #243 Varek Raith

[Link: www.urlesque.com...]

249 Nimed  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:31:20pm

Hi, good people of LGF. I've been following the blog for a while now, with a special interest in the topic of climate change. I was essentially satisfied with just reading the posts up until about a month or so. Around this time there were a couple of discussions in the comment section which made me ache to join the fray, and I've been trying to register even since.

Anyway, nice to meet you all, and sorry for the rather shameless threadjack.

250 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:31:20pm

re: #73 Mad Al-Jaffee

No, that's Miracle Whip.

251 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:31:30pm

re: #245 darthstar

Ah, thanks.

re: #246 Mad Al-Jaffee

U HAZ TENURE, PROFESOR?
:)

252 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:31:34pm

re: #243 Varek Raith

Can someone explain this "magnet" thing???

Know your Meme %P% Fucking Magnets

253 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:32:36pm

re: #222 Obdicut

He was not justifiably outraged. If he wants to be outraged at something, he should focus on the massive amounts of disinformation that the GOP puts out about AGW. That'd be neat.

OK.

Red Team bad. Blue Team good.

All problems solved.

Got it.

Just glad that a guy that stuck his neck out in opposition to such false oppositions is still getting manhandled for having done so and earns no cred. Glad to see the erudite still see the need to reify the other into the neat boxes they need to be in to be destroyed.

254 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:32:44pm

re: #250 Alouette

No, that's Miracle Whip.

Mayonaise too. It's funny - I love eggs but hate mayo. And I love dill pickles but hate raw cucumbers.

255 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:32:59pm

re: #249 Nimed

Welcome hatchling. Doesn't count as a threadjack if it's already past 100 comments.

256 What, me worry?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:33:09pm

Gotta go. Keep your scales shiny, lizards :)

257 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:33:20pm

re: #245 darthstar

Insane Clown Posse reference...they have some rap lyric about 'fuckin' magnets' - I think they're trying to use them as evidence of god...or something.

Spamusement had a cartoon referencing the band. Summed it up for me as well. YMMV.

258 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:33:37pm

re: #234 iceweasel

Yeah, most of the GOP now. Certainly all the right wing pundits.

In the future when someone writes the history of what happened to the GOP in the runup to 2008 and the years after, they can title it "No One Here Gets Out Alive."

I was thinking more about the Stalkers. The GOP is actually doing a bit better on the current financial reform bill. They've taken some hard lines but they do understand the need for some compromise. I really want this bill to pass. If for no other reason than it'll force many on the right to make a public statement about how compromise is needed sometimes. That alone should sent Glenn Beck into a histrionic fit.

259 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:34:27pm
260 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:34:31pm

re: #257 MrSilverDragon

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

261 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:34:37pm

re: #249 Nimed

Hi, good people of LGF. I've been following the blog for a while now, with a special interest in the topic of climate change. I was essentially satisfied with just reading the posts up until about a month or so. Around this time there were a couple of discussions in the comment section which made me ache to join the fray, and I've been trying to register even since.

Anyway, nice to meet you all, and sorry for the rather shameless threadjack.

Welcome, Hatchling!

262 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:34:58pm

re: #65 SteveMcG

If you're an Obama supporter, everybody knows you put mayo on your burger.

I am so drinking the Obama kool aide.
I love mayo on my burgers.
I hate yellow mustard, but brown and dijon are awesome.
I like a mix of iceburger and mixed greens for my salads.
and I drink a pot of hot tea (brewed loose tea) every morning.
and PIE. Pie. Pie.

263 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:35:18pm
264 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:35:24pm

re: #246 Mad Al-Jaffee

It's pretty basic chemistry

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I don't even wanna hear it, yo!

265 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:35:38pm

re: #259 Brisco County

Image: 300px-Maka_Chop.jpg

266 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:36:17pm

re: #259 Brisco County

The show The Adventures of Brisco County Jr. got canceled after one season, and I think this flouncer troll will be canceled soon too. I'll go get the charcoal.

267 Yashmak  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:36:40pm

re: #234 iceweasel

Yeah, most of the GOP now. Certainly all the right wing pundits.

Oh come now, that's not entirely true :) We all know Beck flipped a 180 on his position on government healthcare. He was for it, until his viewers were against it. . .then he was against it.

268 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:37:02pm

re: #263 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Zombie was a sock puppet and posting under multiple accounts.

Quoted to avoid deletion. Don't quote the flouncer.

269 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:37:15pm

re: #259 Brisco County

Tim, is that you? You found your password?

270 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:37:54pm

re: #269 wrenchwench

Tim, is that you? You found your password?

LOL!

271 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:38:07pm
272 CuriousLurker  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:38:29pm

re: #249 Nimed

Welcome!

273 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:38:34pm

re: #258 Dark_Falcon

I think the GOP has already painted itself into a corner in the sense that they have convinced their base that the Democratic party = CCCP, and any compromise is collusion with the enemy. It's hard to compromise when the minority leader is literally screaming "Armageddon" on the floor of the house.

How do you back down from that? What do you tell your constituents?

274 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:39:22pm

re: #113 BlackFedora

I feel I've got somewhat of an understanding of this because I've been guilty of extremism in the past (religious and political) and learned from that mistake.

Yeah, been there, done that have the mental scars to prove it.

275 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:39:26pm

re: #271 jamesfirecat

Welcome to the future! The Black Guy actually won the 2008 election believe it or not, you missed Bioshock 1 and Bioshock 2, along with two more seasons of Myth Busters, you've got a lot of catching up to to do!

Plus, they're still on the damn island and it still doesn't make any sense.

276 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:39:34pm

re: #259 Brisco County

Methinks you're still sleeping.

277 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:39:49pm

re: #259 Brisco County

If you were in a coma, glad you're out of it now, I'd recommend reading back through the archives. If not, well... I suspect you're not going to be around here very long.

I'm somehow leaning towards the latter.

278 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:39:57pm

re: #273 Fozzie Bear

I think the GOP has already painted itself into a corner in the sense that they have convinced their base that the Democratic party = CCCP, and any compromise is collusion with the enemy. It's hard to compromise when the minority leader is literally screaming "Armageddon" on the floor of the house.

How do you back down from that? What do you tell your constituents?

Maybe they won't notice it, sometimes I think they're constituents aren't the brightest of people out there, they didn't notice the way the debt sky rocked under their "fiscal conservative" control.

Just have Fox News tell them that its not that Republicans are agreeing with Democrats, they're forcing the Democrats to agree with them instead!

We were always at war with Eurasia!

279 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:39:57pm

re: #271 jamesfirecat

Kent: Tonight, on Eyewitness News: a man who's been in a coma for 23
years wakes up.
Man: Do Sonny and Cher still have that stupid show?
Kent: No, uh, she won an Oscar, and he's a Congressman.
Man: Good night! [turns over and dies]

280 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:41:15pm
281 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:41:50pm

re: #253 karmic_inquisitor

OK.

Red Team bad. Blue Team good.

All problems solved.

That is a dishonest and stupid representation of what I said.

The GOP really, really is pushing a load of disinformation about AGW. The Democrats are pushing a rather small load of disinformation about some of the solutions to it-- overstating the benefits of cap and trade and biofuel, mainly.

To me, all you're doing is a tiresome 'they're both equally bad' meme.

282 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:42:17pm

Even the mindhive at DemocraticUnderground was willing to give Graham props when the news broke.

[Link: www.democraticunderground.com...]


Graham was THE ONLY REPUBLICAN supporting the climate change bill, and was under attack by other GOPers for working with Democrats.

Harry Reid said that BOTH climate change and immigration reform bills can be worked on simultaneously, but that both REQUIRE "bipartisan support".

283 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:42:17pm

re: #259 Brisco County

Damn you for shaming the name of a great show!

284 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:42:28pm
285 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:42:57pm

re: #273 Fozzie Bear

I think the GOP has already painted itself into a corner in the sense that they have convinced their base that the Democratic party = CCCP, and any compromise is collusion with the enemy. It's hard to compromise when the minority leader is literally screaming "Armageddon" on the floor of the house.

How do you back down from that? What do you tell your constituents?

In the case of the finance bill, you just tell the truth. That some parts of the bill can't be stopped, so its either accept a complete so-so bill, and get some ugly partial stuff jammed down our throats. So we, as Senators, took option 1. Judge us accordingly.

286 Yashmak  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:43:25pm

re: #282 karmic_inquisitor

Even the mindhive at DemocraticUnderground was willing to give Graham props when the news broke.

Lol "mindhive". A more perfect description of DU, there never was.

287 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:44:15pm

re: #285 Dark_Falcon

In the case of the finance bill, you just tell the truth. That some parts of the bill can't be stopped, so its either accept a complete so-so bill, and get some ugly partial stuff jammed down our throats. So we, as Senators, took option 1. Judge us accordingly.

But but but... we elected Scott Brown, you've got 41 guys, stand shoulder to shoulder and like Micheal Steele said you can be a cow on the train tracks of democratic progress towards socialism!

288 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:44:23pm

re: #275 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Plus, they're still on the damn island and it still doesn't make any sense.

It was never supposed to make sense. Lost is a socio-psychological experiment in mass-manipulation. After they got away with the big bear-creature and the black smoke creature in their first seasons, the writers of that stupid fucking show decided that they could put pretty much anything in the script and people would tune in to impress themselves with how much they 'got it.' They could have an episode where everyone on the island stares at a turd waiting for the tide to take it away, and people would watch the show.

289 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:45:05pm

re: #201 karmic_inquisitor

Did you read the letter he wrote? I know that TPM and others left the details out but he was justifiably outraged as should anyone else who is concerned about GHGs and our insane energy policies.

I'm kinda feeling a bit for Graham on this.
I think he was blindsided by the Dems after really taking a chance working on the climate change bill.

290 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:45:56pm

re: #288 darthstar

They could have an episode where everyone on the island stares at a turd waiting for the tide to take it away, and people would watch the show.

ROFL it's funny because it's true.

291 badger1970  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:46:18pm

re: #287 jamesfirecat

Steele actually said that?

292 Yashmak  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:46:44pm

re: #288 darthstar

It was never supposed to make sense. Lost is a socio-psychological experiment in mass-manipulation. After they got away with the big bear-creature and the black smoke creature in their first seasons, the writers of that stupid fucking show decided that they could put pretty much anything in the script and people would tune in to impress themselves with how much they 'got it.' They could have an episode where everyone on the island stares at a turd waiting for the tide to take it away, and people would watch the show.

I always suspected the writers only expected the show to last a season or two, had no plans for plotline after that, and just sort of cobbled things together after that.

293 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:47:13pm

re: #290 Fozzie Bear

ROFL it's funny because it's true.

Internet forums would be filled with comments about the significance of the turd. Who left it there? What happens if the turd gets off the island and they don't? Is that god's message?

294 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:47:30pm

re: #288 darthstar

I like the episode where Gilligan gets hit on the head with a coconut and his personality changes.

295 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:47:50pm

re: #288 darthstar

stares at a turd waiting for the tide to take it away, wow... so many places that could be applied, it's brilliant.

296 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:47:56pm

re: #288 darthstar

re: #292 Yashmak

I'm gonna let Walter deal with you two infidels!

297 badger1970  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:48:01pm

re: #291 badger1970

Nevermind, found it.

298 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:48:33pm

re: #294 Mad Al-Jaffee

I like the episode where Gilligan gets hit on the head with a coconut and his personality changes.

I like the episode where Maryanne gives Ginger a bubble bath.

299 bosforus  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:48:34pm

re: #288 darthstar

It was never supposed to make sense. Lost is a socio-psychological experiment in mass-manipulation. After they got away with the big bear-creature and the black smoke creature in their first seasons, the writers of that stupid fucking show decided that they could put pretty much anything in the script and people would tune in to impress themselves with how much they 'got it.' They could have an episode where everyone on the island stares at a turd waiting for the tide to take it away, and people would watch the show.

Very intriguing. Whose turd would it be? What do you think the turd would symbolize?

300 Spider Mensch  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:48:55pm

re: #288 darthstar

It was never supposed to make sense. Lost is a socio-psychological experiment in mass-manipulation. After they got away with the big bear-creature and the black smoke creature in their first seasons, the writers of that stupid fucking show decided that they could put pretty much anything in the script and people would tune in to impress themselves with how much they 'got it.' They could have an episode where everyone on the island stares at a turd waiting for the tide to take it away, and people would watch the show.

tv intellectuals..lol..." see the turd represents man's innocence lost..."

no it doesn't, it represents the show stinks like shit maybe...))))

301 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:49:00pm

re: #296 Slumbering Behemoth

re: #292 Yashmak

I'm gonna let Walter deal with you two infidels!

NO ONE EXPECTS THE LOST INQUISITION!!!!...?

302 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:49:02pm

re: #292 Yashmak

I always suspected the writers only expected the show to last a season or two, had no plans for plotline after that, and just sort of cobbled things together after that.

Kind of like the Iraq war and the last administration.

303 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:49:24pm

re: #298 darthstar

I like the episode where Maryanne gives Ginger a bubble bath.

I'm not going to say it, not on a public forum.

304 Yashmak  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:49:40pm

re: #301 Varek Raith

NO ONE EXPECTS THE LOST INQUISITION!!!...?

/me trembles no, not the Walter!!

305 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:49:41pm

re: #299 bosforus

Very intriguing. Whose turd would it be? What do you think the turd would symbolize?

SMACK!

306 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:49:47pm

I watched Lost for the first season, and decided it was basically a poorly-executed mind-fuck. I wanted to like it, but I felt insulted that anyone would think this would qualify as the sort of stuff that would make me think.

307 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:49:51pm

re: #299 bosforus

Very intriguing. Whose turd would it be? What do you think the turd would symbolize?

a turd is a turd. no symbolism required.

308 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:49:55pm

re: #299 bosforus

Very intriguing. Whose turd would it be? What do you think the turd would symbolize?

Aw, fuck...I hope I didn't just inspire another season of this show...I do hope the show's writers don't read this blog.

309 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:50:23pm

re: #291 badger1970

Steele actually said that?

Well not the "towards socialism" part but when asked the question if his party would have to "jump on the train" of healthcare reform he said

"Well I'm the cow on the tracks. You're gonna have to stop the train to get this cow off the track to move forward."

Clearly Micheal Steele doesn't realize what that thing on the front of a train is called a cow catcher....

310 Yashmak  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:50:29pm

re: #302 darthstar

Kind of like the Iraq war and the last administration.

Funny, I was thinking it applied pretty well to this administration and congress in general as well.

311 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:50:51pm

re: #306 Fozzie Bear

Heh. As soon as I figured out "Oh, it's all magic" I lost interest.

312 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:50:56pm

Meanwhile, great shows like Farscape and Firefly get canned.

313 bosforus  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:51:19pm

re: #308 darthstar

Aw, fuck...I hope I didn't just inspire another season of this show...I do hope the show's writers don't read this blog.

Maybe at that point the camera does one of those huge zoom outs and we see that the show is actually just a big turd in a litter box.

314 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:51:37pm

LGF PSA.
Don't quote the flouncers!
/Channeling Three Dog

315 Yashmak  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:51:50pm

re: #312 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Meanwhile, great shows like Farscape and Firefly get canned.

Yeah, Firefly was an absolute hoot. One of very, very few TV series I actually bothered to buy the DVD's for.

316 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:52:21pm

re: #304 Yashmak

Walter?

317 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:52:26pm

re: #314 Varek Raith

LGF PSA.
Don't quote the flouncers!
/Channeling Three Dog

Wouldn't that make you Trio Lizard?

318 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:52:30pm

re: #309 jamesfirecat

Well not the "towards socialism" part but when asked the question if his party would have to "jump on the train" of healthcare reform he said

"Well I'm the cow on the tracks. You're gonna have to stop the train to get this cow off the track to move forward."

Clearly Micheal Steele doesn't realize what that thing on the front of a train is called a cow catcher...

or where ground round comes from...

319 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:52:50pm

re: #311 Obdicut

Heh. As soon as I figured out "Oh, it's all magic" I lost interest.

Never believe, it's not so

Never been awake
Never seen a day break
Leaning on my pillow in the morning
Lazy day in bed
Music in my head
Crazy music playing in the morning light

320 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:52:50pm

So now that we've uncovered the mysteries of "fuckin' magnets"...

321 Spider Mensch  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:52:58pm

re: #313 bosforus

Maybe at that point the camera does one of those huge zoom outs and we see that the show is actually just a big turd in a litter box.


nah..Bill Murray comes by in a full head to toe Hazmat suit..picks up the turd, bites it and says.."hmmm, it's still good!"

322 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:53:23pm

re: #312 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

At least we got to see Claudia Black and Ben Browder on SG-1 for a time... loved Farscape..

323 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:53:45pm

re: #322 lawhawk

At least we got to see Claudia Black and Ben Browder on SG-1 for a time... loved Farscape..

"1812, COVERING FIRE!"

324 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:54:16pm

re: #315 Yashmak

Yeah, Firefly was an absolute hoot. One of very, very few TV series I actually bothered to buy the DVD's for.

Check out Farscape.

Actual quote from the show
"One step closer and the earth boy gets it" while holding a pistol to his own head.

325 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:55:27pm

re: #292 Yashmak

I always suspected the writers only expected the show to last a season or two, had no plans for plotline after that, and just sort of cobbled things together after that.

You both would suspect wrong.

It is a know fact, both in the general public and the industry, that this was the FIRST episodic evening network TV show that was given the sort of contract that had.

WIRED magazine just had an 8 page article on the show and pointed this out... "LOST taught the audience how to watch a big, serialized, sprawling epic; but ore important, it taught the networks that this model was viable."

The producers had the major story arcs already worked out, From A to Z, before they even went into production. They asked ABC for a 6 year contract, they went into the first season and a half still in negotiations. Midway during the second season, ABC had worked out all the "kinks" in this new sort of proposal, and signed the contract.

Of course, like any long run production of this nature, the producers/writers had wiggle room to get from A to Z, but the basic plot arcs, the major story line, was already on paper from square one.

And if you watch the show regularly, you would be able to see how all the many little details and puzzles and points all dovetail together as the show is wrapping up the story. A fan of all six years can easily see that many aspects of this show ONLY work because they knew where they were going from the beginning.

If you are going to make statements like above, at least know something about the production history of the media you are talking about.

326 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:55:28pm

re: #324 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Check out Farscape.

Actual quote from the show
"One step closer and the earth boy gets it" while holding a pistol to his own head.

Sounds like the scene in Blazing Saddles where the new sheriff rides into town.

327 Yashmak  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:55:35pm

re: #324 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Check out Farscape.

Actual quote from the show
"One step closer and the earth boy gets it" while holding a pistol to his own head.

I watched some episodes. . .enjoyed some too. . I just could never deal with the little puppet dude. I hated that character (yes, I know I was supposed to).

328 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:55:52pm

re: #323 Varek Raith

"1812, COVERING FIRE!"

Please explain. (updinged anyway.)

329 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:56:56pm

re: #325 Walter L. Newton

Thank goodness you are here. There was some blasphemy going on ya know.

330 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:57:14pm

re: #328 Dark_Falcon

Please explain. (updinged anyway.)

you sound like my congresscritter...
"OK I signed it, what does it do?"

331 badger1970  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:57:46pm

re: #328 Dark_Falcon

The name of the tech bot on the leviathan that Creighton was exiled to.

332 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:57:51pm

re: #325 Walter L. Newton

My "rant" about the show has nothing to do with if one person or another likes the show, it's only in reference to the why this show was concieved and finally produced.

333 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:58:12pm

re: #328 Dark_Falcon

Please explain. (updinged anyway.)

John named one of the DRD 1812.

334 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:58:15pm

re: #292 Yashmak

I always suspected the writers only expected the show to last a season or two, had no plans for plotline after that, and just sort of cobbled things together after that.

Most shows and movie series are like this now. The new BSG was great until all the making shit up as they went came to a head in the last season and it fell off a cliff.

335 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:58:16pm

re: #329 Stanley Sea

Thank goodness you are here. There was some blasphemy going on ya know.

informer.

336 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:58:22pm

re: #328 Dark_Falcon

Please explain. (updinged anyway.)


It's from Farscape,

1812 was a Diagnostic Repair Drone that was originally created by the Leviathan Elack. During John Crichton's stay aboard the elder Leviathan, he taught it to whistle & chirp the 1812 Overture. To add to its unique status, Crichton also painted 1812's casing in red, white, and blue with the numbers "1812" in black.

After Elack's sacrifice on the planet Arnessk, 1812 is the last surviving piece of the Leviathan. 1812 has a useful position when it arrives on Moya, notably during the boarding of a group of Coreeshi bounty hunters when Moya's DRDs are deactivated with 1812 the lone active DRD thanks to its outside origin.

1812 is also Crichton's data storage unit for all of his wormhole equations and calculations. It is also where Crichton keeps preliminary designs for the wormhole weapon built in "Farscape The Peacekeeper Wars" as a means to control wormholes. Along with the added wormhole knowledge in his head, this weapon became the most destructive weapon ever made.

337 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:58:36pm

re: #326 darthstar

It was a homage. Farscape (and SG-1 to a degree) have plenty of homages to other movies and entertainment references, including sci-fi and other genres.

One of the classic SG-1 episodes revolves around a script being pitched about a fictional sci-fi show that would contain elements of SG-1, and they included Farscape, Star Trek, Star Wars, and a litany of other shows.

338 Yashmak  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:58:47pm

re: #325 Walter L. Newton


If you are going to make statements like above, at least know something about the production history of the media you are talking about.

You know, I read alot about the series, trying to escape that nagging sensation that I was being taken for a ride by the writers. . .and indeed, I read things similar to the essay you posted. . .so in fact I do know.

Doesn't change the fact that, having watched the entire thing, it still feels to me like everything after season 2 was rushed/cobbled together.

339 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:58:59pm

re: #329 Stanley Sea

Thank goodness you are here. There was some blasphemy going on ya know.

I know it. I was talking a nap, and my Dharma Super Secret Ring started flashing me a message... "there is someone wrong on the internet, go fix it..." and I got up and was horrified to find out that my very own LGF was the culprit.

340 Yashmak  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:59:12pm

re: #334 ArchangelMichael

Most shows and movie series are like this now. The new BSG was great until all the making shit up as they went came to a head in the last season and it fell off a cliff.

Total agreement.

341 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:59:14pm

DAMN!
LOST is a repeat tonight.
I am feeling annoyed.

BUT I also see that new episodes of Foyle's War will be on PBS Sunday night.

342 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:59:23pm

re: #325 Walter L. Newton

I found Days of Our Lives more believable when Marlena was posessed by the devil...talk about your serialized, sprawling epic.

343 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 12:59:46pm

re: #332 Walter L. Newton

My "rant" about the show has nothing to do with if one person or another likes the show, it's only in reference to the why this show was concieved and finally produced.

Fine...just explain the turd for us.

344 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:00:11pm

Crap...90 minutes of meetings starting now...back in a while, crocodiles.

345 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:00:14pm

re: #343 darthstar

Fine...just explain the turd for us.

Sometimes a turd is just a turd.

346 badger1970  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:00:27pm

re: #337 lawhawk

I believe the Farscape skit had a bunch of made up words substituting for swearing and a promiscuous character.

347 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:00:46pm

Repost because it fits here too.

I am very very glad that we do not have Palin or McCain in office. The question is if Obama is strong enough to actually take a firm command.

Some of my Christian friends here can help me with the proverb I am looking for. It fits all too well.

It goes something like "you shall know a tree by its fruit."

I think it is from Matthew. Matthew was completely correct about this.

For those of you who doubt, who simply refuse to see the connections let's look at the neo-nazis here, in this report, the subject of this thread - talking about preserving a white majority.

Let's compare one more time to Hitler himself in 1927.

Don't even call it Godwin. Whining about Godwin only applies if the comparison is invalid. If there is a valid comparison, like there is right here and right now, it just becomes a ritualized way of dismissing the facts.

Wake up folks.

Compare and contrast.

Adolf Hitler's Speech at the
1927 Nuremberg Rally

62 million (German) people who seem to hold together are no longer a power factor in a world in which groups with 400 million are increasingly active, nations for which their population is their major tool of economic policy...

If numbers themselves are no longer a power factor, the second factor is territory. This, too, is no longer a power factor for us, even seeming laughable when one can fly across our German territory in a mere four hours. That is no longer an amount of territory that provides its own defense, as is the case with Russia. Its size alone is a means of security. If the first two sources of power, population and territory, are inadequate, there remains always the third, that which rests in the inner strength of a people. A nation can do astounding things when it carries this power in its own internal values. When, however, we examine the German people, we must to our horror see that this last power factor is no longer present.

These are, these really are nazis. They make no attempt to hide it and at least in AZ we have the GOP allied with them.

Across the nation the GOP, for whatever reason has a bank shot here and has managed to once again scuttle climate legislation - in order to what? Maintain the status quo? Allow their corporate sponsors to continue to abuse cheap labor? Keep their maid? Allow states rights whackos the state level liberty to enshrine Nazi ideals into law?

And in the mean time, climate, the single most pressing issue there is, without doubt is put on a back burner again.

The early Nazi party was weak and leaderless. There were many players but no clear alpha wolf. In the base though, the propaganda spread and as financial and media support came in for them, they grew in strength. The GOP are not nazis yet. They have not found the charismatic evil genius yet to pick this ripening fruit.

But, by the fruits, you shall know the tree.

348 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:01:16pm

re: #342 darthstar

Heh... I've met John Aniston on several occasions (he who played Victor Kiriakis). Nice guy... of course, he's now better known as Jen's dad.

349 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:01:23pm

re: #341 webevintage

DAMN!
LOST is a repeat tonight.
I am feeling annoyed.

BUT I also see that new episodes of Foyle's War will be on PBS Sunday night.

Yes... this is the only break in the season, repeating the "Richard centric" episode.

350 bosforus  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:01:34pm

I can imagine the conversation 7 years ago...
During Season 5 we should introduce subtitles. You know, because by then no one's going to know what's going on.

351 Yashmak  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:01:45pm

re: #347 LudwigVanQuixote

How dare you try and put this thread back on a serious topic?

352 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:01:57pm

re: #325 Walter L. Newton

You both would suspect wrong.

It is a know fact, both in the general public and the industry, that this was the FIRST episodic evening network TV show that was given the sort of contract that had.

WIRED magazine just had an 8 page article on the show and pointed this out... "LOST taught the audience how to watch a big, serialized, sprawling epic; but ore important, it taught the networks that this model was viable."

The producers had the major story arcs already worked out, From A to Z, before they even went into production. They asked ABC for a 6 year contract, they went into the first season and a half still in negotiations. Midway during the second season, ABC had worked out all the "kinks" in this new sort of proposal, and signed the contract.

Of course, like any long run production of this nature, the producers/writers had wiggle room to get from A to Z, but the basic plot arcs, the major story line, was already on paper from square one.

And if you watch the show regularly, you would be able to see how all the many little details and puzzles and points all dovetail together as the show is wrapping up the story. A fan of all six years can easily see that many aspects of this show ONLY work because they knew where they were going from the beginning.

If you are going to make statements like above, at least know something about the production history of the media you are talking about.

Sounds like its everything Sarah Conor Chronicles should have been.

353 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:01:58pm

re: #343 darthstar

Fine...just explain the turd for us.

I've never seen a turd on the show.

354 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:02:20pm

re: #334 ArchangelMichael

Most shows and movie series are like this now. The new BSG was great until all the making shit up as they went came to a head in the last season and it fell off a cliff.

BSG was great.
Period.

355 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:02:38pm

re: #354 webevintage

BSG was great.
Period.

So say we all.

356 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:03:55pm

re: #352 jamesfirecat

Sounds like its everything Sarah Conor Chronicles should have been.

I don't know what that is. I don't watch ANY TV, except LOST.

357 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:03:58pm

OT: For those on a nature kick, Old Faithful live cam showing the geyser about to go (due to erupt within the next few minutes)...

358 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:04:11pm

re: #183 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Palestinians test out Gandhi-style protest

There is no way they can accomplish their goal (annihilation of Israel, expulsion/extermination of the Jews) by nonviolent means. Not even the leftists can be guilted to death.

359 Yashmak  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:04:13pm

re: #353 Walter L. Newton

I've never seen a turd on the show.

You'd think you would have, after a while. . .unless it was a really freakin' big island, or they were all really conscientious.

360 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:04:13pm

re: #330 brookly red

you sound like my congresscritter...
"OK I signed it, what does it do?"

Not really. The most important thing I was doing was what I wanted to do: Upding a fellow gamer who is also one of my favorite posters.

361 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:04:47pm

re: #355 LudwigVanQuixote

I have to find me a way out of here...

362 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:05:59pm

re: #349 Walter L. Newton

Yes... this is the only break in the season, repeating the "Richard centric" episode.

Nice. So far, that is my favorite of this season.

363 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:06:25pm

re: #358 Alouette

There is no way they can accomplish their goal (annihilation of Israel, expulsion/extermination of the Jews) by nonviolent means. Not even the leftists can be guilted to death.

May you replace Abbas, Ahmad Lazza.

If someone commited to a non-violent resolution headed the Palestinians, then peace would be a real prospect.

364 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:06:26pm

re: #360 Dark_Falcon

Not really. The most important thing I was doing was what I wanted to do: Upding a fellow gamer who is also one of my favorite posters.

/you are my congress man aren't you?

365 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:07:39pm

re: #348 lawhawk

Heh... I've met John Aniston on several occasions (he who played Victor Kiriakis). Nice guy... of course, he's now better known as Jen's dad.

I first read that as John Astin and he's amused me on many an occasion... Went to the link and at first was befuddled as to why it didn't look like him. Then the brain caught up.

366 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:07:55pm
367 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:07:55pm

re: #336 Varek Raith

Damn, I can't find the video to this scene...
:(

368 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:08:01pm

re: #355 LudwigVanQuixote

So say we all.

There are very few shows that I am willing to sit though without the benefit of them being DVR'd so I can skip though the commercials.
I won't even do that for Doctor Who.
But I was willing to sit every Friday night and put up with the annoying SciFi channel's commercials so I could just watch the story unfold each week.
It was so damn good.

(and if you guys are not watching Treme on HBO you should be. I think it is going to be great like The Wire and Deadwood were great.)

369 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:08:18pm

re: #364 brookly red

/you are my congress man aren't you?

No, I'm a Republican. Couldn't get elected to Congress in NYC.

370 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:08:25pm

re: #358 Alouette

There is no way they can accomplish their goal (annihilation of Israel, expulsion/extermination of the Jews) by nonviolent means. Not even the leftists can be guilted to death.

Last I checked, Gandhi didn't take hostages or send suicide murderers. None the less, there will be a section of the moonbat left who forgets that point.

371 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:09:02pm

re: #338 Yashmak

You know, I read alot about the series, trying to escape that nagging sensation that I was being taken for a ride by the writers. . .and indeed, I read things similar to the essay you posted. . .so in fact I do know.

Doesn't change the fact that, having watched the entire thing, it still feels to me like everything after season 2 was rushed/cobbled together.

I can't change the way you feel.

I "found" the show 3 years ago, had to catch up on the whole meme, but I'm certainly a fan, not fanatic, but certainly someone who follows the show much closer than a couch potato, and unless someone has manufactured a six year hoax, most of the "insider" information I have read and seen discussed back up the claim that this show was well conceived and planned from the beginning, unlike many episodic evening TV that rambles on and on until canceled, and then the writers have to come up with hopefully a plausible wrap up to the story.

372 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:09:12pm

re: #368 webevintage

There are very few shows that I am willing to sit though without the benefit of them being DVR'd so I can skip though the commercials.
I won't even do that for Doctor Who.
But I was willing to sit every Friday night and put up with the annoying SciFi channel's commercials so I could just watch the story unfold each week.
It was so damn good.

(and if you guys are not watching Treme on HBO you should be. I think it is going to be great like The Wire and Deadwood were great.)

HBO is pretty much always great. Even Six Feet Under, which was little more than a late night soap with quirks, was great.

373 CarleeCork  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:09:15pm

re: #315 Yashmak

Yeah, Firefly was an absolute hoot. One of very, very few TV series I actually bothered to buy the DVD's for.


Agreed, the hubby and I still enjoy Firefly and Serenity is a great movie as well.

374 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:09:37pm

re: #366 Shiplord Kirel

Yes, we have gone communard on you. Didn't you know? ACORN is out of business because we looted their treasury and decided to take over the left ourselves. It's about time somebody put it on a sound fiscal basis.

Good reply. I'm quoting it so it doesn't get deleted, as have the other posts that quoted the flounce.

375 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:09:40pm

re: #369 Dark_Falcon

No, I'm a Republican. Couldn't get elected to Congress in NYC.

You need to get over that infection of GOPism.

376 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:10:00pm

re: #358 Alouette

There is no way they can accomplish their goal (annihilation of Israel, expulsion/extermination of the Jews) by nonviolent means. Not even the leftists can be guilted to death.

Its one thing to criticize their past tactics. It's quite another thing to think you know a people so well that you can say with authority that nobody within it differs from your notion of what lingers in their souls.

The word "their" in that post is doing some really heavy lifting.

377 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:10:18pm

re: #369 Dark_Falcon

No, I'm a Republican. Couldn't get elected to Congress in NYC.

hmmm OK...

378 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:10:59pm

re: #374 Dark_Falcon

Good reply. I'm quoting it so it doesn't get deleted, as have the other posts that quoted the flounce.

That's a handy service you provide!

379 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:11:18pm

re: #370 LudwigVanQuixote

Last I checked, Gandhi didn't take hostages or send suicide murderers. None the less, there will be a section of the moonbat left who forgets that point.

Quite Concur. When large segments of the Arabs renounce 'armed struggle', then I'll believe that story angle fully. And as a supporter of Israel, that day can't come soon enough for me.

380 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:11:40pm

Later Lizards, I'm out like a rainbow on a sunny day.

381 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:12:04pm

re: #376 Fozzie Bear

Its one thing to criticize their past tactics. It's quite another thing to think you know a people so well that you can say with authority that nobody within it differs from your notion of what lingers in their souls.

The word "their" in that post is doing some really heavy lifting.

Well, given the weight of that history and the fact that the organization behind it is still sworn to the complete destruction of Israel, it is not so much of a stretch. I do not doubt that some Palestinians want peace. I doubt that very many do and I know for a fact that the factions in power do not.

382 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:12:33pm

re: #371 Walter L. Newton

I can't change the way you feel.

I "found" the show 3 years ago, had to catch up on the whole meme, but I'm certainly a fan, not fanatic, but certainly someone who follows the show much closer than a couch potato, and unless someone has manufactured a six year hoax, most of the "insider" information I have read and seen discussed back up the claim that this show was well conceived and planned from the beginning, unlike many episodic evening TV that rambles on and on until canceled, and then the writers have to come up with hopefully a plausible wrap up to the story.

I really like these shows that have a specific story to tell and they tell it and then they end it like The Wire or BSG or Life on Mars (BBC one, not the one on American TV, which was good, but not as good as the BBC).

383 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:12:38pm

re: #379 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. When large segments of the Arabs renounce 'armed struggle', then I'll believe that story angle fully. And as a supporter of Israel, that day can't come soon enough for me.

If that day does come, they would have peace that afternoon.

384 blueraven  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:13:04pm

re: #289 webevintage

I'm kinda feeling a bit for Graham on this.
I think he was blindsided by the Dems after really taking a chance working on the climate change bill.

I agree. I disagree with Graham more often than not, but I think it took a pretty big pair to work with the dems on climate change, and I admire him for that.

I understand it is politics, but feel he got sucker punched on this one.

385 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:13:12pm

re: #287 jamesfirecat

But but but... we elected Scott Brown, you've got 41 guys, stand shoulder to shoulder and like Micheal Steele said you can be a cow on the train tracks of democratic progress towards socialism!

Michael Steele said someone could be a cow on the train tracks of democratic progress toward socialism?

My.

386 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:13:17pm

re: #259 Brisco County

Yes, we have gone left on you. Didn't you know? Besides the persuasive power of naked PETA babes, we discovered that we could loot the ACORN treasury and take over the left ourselves. It's about time somebody put it on a sound fiscal basis.

387 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:14:06pm

re: #375 LudwigVanQuixote

You need to get over that infection of GOPism.

It's a long term thing. I've given money to Republican candidates every year since 1992. Further, Illinois has a great GOP Senate candidate in Mark Kirk this year. Despite the problems, I'm still in the party to support some candidates who I know and support. That and I can't stand the Dems in this state.

388 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:14:45pm

re: #383 LudwigVanQuixote

If that day does come, they would have peace that afternoon.

Unfortunately, if just the Palestinians renounce violence against Israel, they will find themselves attacked and their leaders deposed, by the other Arab nations. Their once chance, really, would be to simultaneously rejected armed resistance against Israel and denounce the other Arab states for fueling the conflict, and work with Israel at keeping the borders secure.

Likelihood low.

389 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:14:47pm

re: #249 Nimed

Hi, good people of LGF. I've been following the blog for a while now, with a special interest in the topic of climate change. I was essentially satisfied with just reading the posts up until about a month or so. Around this time there were a couple of discussions in the comment section which made me ache to join the fray, and I've been trying to register even since.

Anyway, nice to meet you all, and sorry for the rather shameless threadjack.

Welcome. I certainly hope you are going to join the fray on the side of science.

390 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:15:01pm

re: #362 Slumbering Behemoth

Nice. So far, that is my favorite of this season.

I think Happily Ever After (the Desmond ep) was my favorite so far.

391 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:15:02pm

re: #383 LudwigVanQuixote

If that day does come, they would have peace that afternoon.

Again Concur.

392 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:15:17pm

re: #388 Obdicut

at keeping the borders secured against terrorists.

CMA PIMF.

393 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:15:22pm

re: #388 Obdicut

Unfortunately, if just the Palestinians renounce violence against Israel, they will find themselves attacked and their leaders deposed, by the other Arab nations. Their once chance, really, would be to simultaneously rejected armed resistance against Israel and denounce the other Arab states for fueling the conflict, and work with Israel at keeping the borders secure.

Likelihood low.

Yes. I agree with all of that.

394 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:16:15pm

Well folks, the drugs are wearing off and the nice men in the white clothes are asking me to put my arms into this very long-sleeved jacket with lots of buckles on it. They said I could play some more tomorrow, so, I hope y'all have a good night!

395 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:16:22pm

re: #382 webevintage

I really like these shows that have a specific story to tell and they tell it and then they end it like The Wire or BSG or Life on Mars (BBC one, not the one on American TV, which was good, but not as good as the BBC).

I agree. And that's what LOST wanted to do on network TV, and it took ABC a season and a half to agree to the arrangement, but they finally did, and maybe the success of LOST will spurn other network production companies to start moving from the "beat it until it dies" production model and give the public more of these "year spanning" movie like epics.

The current WIRED magazine points this out with a 8 page article on LOST.

396 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:16:56pm

We'll still have sleepers from '05 and '06 bestirring (and beclowning) themselves here 20 years from now.

397 bosforus  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:17:29pm

Mega Shark Vs Giant Octopus is the best movie I've seen in a while.

398 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:17:59pm

re: #394 MrSilverDragon

Well folks, the drugs are wearing off and the nice men in the white clothes are asking me to put my arms into this very long-sleeved jacket with lots of buckles on it. They said I could play some more tomorrow, so, I hope y'all have a good night!

Say hello to Libby, Charlie, Dave and Michael for us.

399 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:18:30pm

BBT

400 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:18:43pm

re: #358 Alouette

There is no way they can accomplish their goal (annihilation of Israel, expulsion/extermination of the Jews) by nonviolent means. Not even the leftists can be guilted to death.


I don't know. My uncle got ulcers from guilt...

401 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:18:45pm

re: #396 Shiplord Kirel

We'll still have sleepers from '05 and '06 bestirring (and beclowning) themselves here 20 years from now.

And some of us are right out in the open about it.

402 Slap  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:19:31pm

re: #332 Walter L. Newton

IMO, your clarification was unnecessary, since you were quite clear.

Was the use of the term "network" re: #325 Walter L. Newton


It is a know fact, both in the general public and the industry, that this was the FIRST episodic evening network TV show that was given the sort of contract that had.


...an intentional qualifier? I ask because I know that Babylon 5 was conceived and sold as a five-year story arc, and it had several similar traits in that respect. I remember being delighted and amazed during the last season or two at how neatly bits from the first three seasons completely fit the picture that had developed by the end.

I've not been a watcher of Lost, but if this is how they laid it out, I'm going to have to add it to my DVD wishlist. I respect the creative integrity of not allowing the concept to be idiofied by studio execs.

403 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:20:19pm

re: #372 LudwigVanQuixote

HBO is pretty much always great. Even Six Feet Under, which was little more than a late night soap with quirks, was great.

I'm watching the second season of 6 Feet Under right now. I enjoy it.

404 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:21:08pm

Afternoon, fellow Lizards. That drive I was planning to make down to Galveston was postponed due to sickness, so I'm still stuck in Houston. Anything interesting happen, besides JaMarcus finally hitting 300?

405 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:21:29pm

Housekeeping memo:

The new round of Lizardoid bonuses will be coming UPS rather than USPS so watch for the guys in brown.
Those gold bars we looted liberated from the secret ACORN vaults are harder to ship than the old Area 51 checks, but nobody has reported any problems passing them locally.

406 charlz  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:21:57pm

re: #341 webevintage


BUT I also see that new episodes of Foyle's War will be on PBS Sunday night.

Oh how very COOL! I hadn't heard more were in the works. Thanks for the heads up!

407 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:22:18pm

re: #403 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm watching the second season of 6 Feet Under right now. I enjoy it.

Yeah, that show sort of sucks you in.

408 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:23:00pm

re: #405 Shiplord Kirel

Housekeeping memo:

The new round of Lizardoid bonuses will be coming UPS rather than USPS so watch for the guys in brown.
Those gold bars we looted liberated from the secret ACORN vaults are harder to ship than the old Area 51 checks, but nobody has reported any problems passing them locally.

pssst, wrap the gold in reefer it sails right through...

409 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:23:13pm

re: #407 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah, that show sort of sucks you in.

Like "Assisted Living Dracula"? It's kinda slow at first, but once you start watching it....

410 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:24:04pm

re: #397 bosforus

Mega Shark Vs Giant Octopus is the best movie I've seen in a while.

[Video]

Pure Oscar material

"We're dealing with a menace."

411 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:24:06pm

re: #405 Shiplord Kirel

Housekeeping memo:

The new round of Lizardoid bonuses will be coming UPS rather than USPS so watch for the guys in brown.
Those gold bars we looted liberated from the secret ACORN vaults are harder to ship than the old Area 51 checks, but nobody has reported any problems passing them locally.

I thought that was because tobacco and such couldn't be sent by the mail anymore. I mean, I get paid in cheap whiskey and hands of tobacco; I thought everybody did.

412 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:24:14pm

re: #409 Guanxi88

Like "Assisted Living Dracula"? It's kinda slow at first, but once you start watching it...

This reminds me of my favorite B-movie ever. Bubba Ho-Tep.

413 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:24:17pm

re: #405 Shiplord Kirel

Housekeeping memo:

The new round of Lizardoid bonuses will be coming UPS rather than USPS so watch for the guys in brown.
Those gold bars we looted liberated from the secret ACORN vaults are harder to ship than the old Area 51 checks, but nobody has reported any problems passing them locally.

Since those are our Zionist Payoffs as well, they should be in little bags of Jew Gold.

/South Park reference

414 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:24:35pm

re: #405 Shiplord Kirel

I'd think a gold bar would be very hard to pass indeed, unless you had a lot of fiber with it.

415 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:24:49pm

re: #412 Fozzie Bear

This reminds me of my favorite B-movie ever. Bubba Ho-Tep.

Mine has to be "Blood Freak" - the production budget was scrounged from the couch in the producer's mom's rec room.

416 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:25:23pm

re: #402 Slap

IMO, your clarification was unnecessary, since you were quite clear.

Was the use of the term "network" re: #325 Walter L. Newton


...an intentional qualifier? I ask because I know that Babylon 5 was conceived and sold as a five-year story arc, and it had several similar traits in that respect. I remember being delighted and amazed during the last season or two at how neatly bits from the first three seasons completely fit the picture that had developed by the end.

I've not been a watcher of Lost, but if this is how they laid it out, I'm going to have to add it to my DVD wishlist. I respect the creative integrity of not allowing the concept to be idiofied by studio execs.

That's why I said "network."

Of course, with a six year contracted season, they have had wiggle room to adjust certain characters (or remove them), to weave certain plot lines off course and then back, depending on the audience reaction, all the normal stuff that network TV is know for, but like I say, over all, they had the major plat arcs written before they even went into production, and there has been time after time that you see how smaller arcs catch up with other arcs and you know that much of this had to be plotted in advance.

That's what makes the show so clever. There is many "aha" moments, one of those deep, internal feelings that hook audiences... very satisfying.

Then again, the show is not for everyone. It's very difficult to follow if you don't constantly watch, it moves between science and faith, and there is a very complex time travel arc that can be tedious for some people at times.

417 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:25:28pm

re: #415 Guanxi88

Mine has to be "Blood Freak" - the production budget was scrounged from the couch in the producer's mom's rec room.

Tremors.

418 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:27:41pm

re: #415 Guanxi88

Mine has to be "Blood Freak" - the production budget was scrounged from the couch in the producer's mom's rec room.

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

Narrator [Brad Grinter], puffing on a cigarette: The one constant in this world is that things change. There is order in change in that one thing leads to the next thing, and one seemingly random event can affect the course of the future.

Herschel [Steve Hawkes], an out-of-work and homeless Vietnam vet, meets and befriends Jesus freak Angel [Heather Hughes] when her car breaks down on the Florida turnpike. Angel takes Herschel home where her hot-to-trot sister Ann [Dana Cullivan] is smoking marijuana and doing drugs with a bunch of her friends.

Narrator: *puff* Angel and Ann are both truth-seekers, although each goes at it from a different angle.

Herschel accompanies Angel to a meeting with her Jesus freak friend Tom Nolan [?], who offers Herschel a job on his poultry ranch. Angel invites Herschel to stay with her and Ann until he can get on his feet. The next day, as Herschel cleans their swimming pool, Ann dons her bikini and tries to get Herschel to notice her. When that doesn't work, she gets Herschel to take a drag on a joint laced with something that Ann's friend Guy [Larry Wright] guarantees will hook him after only a few tokes. Into the bedroom they go, and off comes Ann's bikini.

Narrator: *puff* Because Herschel is a real man, he couldn't refuse Ann's attentions. But the paths of life are predicatable, and we choose them over and over again.

The next morning, Herschel heads over to the Midway Turkey Farm & Hatchery. Tom introduces Herschel to Lenny and Gene, who work in the farm's laboratory. They are currently researching the chemical "caponization" of poultry. Needing a human to eat the meat in order to see if there are any side-effects, they rope Herschel into it by offering him some recreational drugs for his personal use. Later that evening, Herschel begins to withdraw from that incredibly-addicting grass and is in dire need of a fix. Ann calls Guy, who brings over some more weed.

Unfortunately, Herschel has turned into a were-turkey and can only communicate with Ann by writing; when he tries to speak, all that comes out is a gobble. [Herein is one of the most bizarre seduction scenes I've ever seen.] Ann feels awful, because she thinks it is all her fault, so she calls her sister Angel.

Narrator: *puff* Interesting how, in times of trouble but not before, we turn to God. Be careful what you pray for.

Herschel has learned that he can get his drug fix by hanging users by their feet, slitting their necks, and drinking their blood. While Herschel goes around drinking the blood of various drug-abusing girls, Ann talks turkey with two of her friends, trying to get them to help her find and take care of Herschel until he reverts back to normal. When Herschel is spotted by a non-druggie man, he is forced to kill the man. The man's wife or son (it's hard to tell) attacks Herschel and stabs him in the eye. Bleeding all over his turkey feathers, Herschel stumbles home to Ann.
.
Meanwhile, Guy is trying to buy more drugs, but his pusher refuses to deliver unless Guy pays what he already owes. Guy offers him $175 and a chance to make it with Ann, who is taking a nap in the bedroom. The pusher agrees. As he fondles Ann's breasts, she wakes up and sees that it isn't Herschel. The pusher sees Herschel out the window an

419 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:27:42pm

Turning serious again,

I will not link to it, but this is the fist thing you see from the homepage of the American Nazi Party.

Today, according to the latest U.S. Census - only 23% of the American population under the age of 18 is WHITE. Already, four U.S. states are MAJORITY NON-WHITE, and 10% of all counties in America are MAJORITY NON-WHITE. World-wide, White women of child-bearing age comprise only 3% of the earth's population. Do these FACTS disturb you? They should.

Currently, America has an estimated 20 MILLION brown, mestizo ILLEGAL ALIENS who have INVADED OUR NATION - this evil, corrupt Judeo-Capitalist system - where basically 3% of the population, control 85% of the nation's wealth, are demanding and will eventually grant "amnesty" to these foreigners. Why?

Because they want a cheap, slave-like work force - where decent wages and benefits will be a thing of the past. All in the name of selfishness and greed. Every year, our White children's expected life-style - is declining - compared to the previous generations. Once these illegals ARE granted "citizenship", by LAW - they are allowed to bring into our country - ALL their "extended families". This means not only their usual very LARGE amount of children - but, mom, pop, grandma, grandpa and who have you.

By 2025 - given only CURRENT population trends, coupled with this "amnesty" - WHITE AMERICA will be a total MINORITY in a nation that WAS ONCE THEIR BIRTHRIGHT! Does this please you? "HOW" do you think a White MINORITY will be TREATED - once it's an established fact? Do you think that life for your children, and their children will be "business as usual"?

If you are tired of being blamed for all the world's problems - simply because you are White. If you are fed up with a government that is more concerned about everyone and everything on this planet - EXCEPT the well-being of the people who FOUNDED and BUILT America - the WHITE WORKING CLASS population, and are intelligent and clear-sighted enough to see REALITY when it stares you in the face - JOIN WITH US.

Notice the last paragraph in particular. How often have we heard just that rant, in pretty much exactly those words, from the wingnuts and even some right wing posters here?

How often have you heard that sort of statement from Rush, or Hannity?

What about the Freepers?

How can anyone here not see it?

420 bosforus  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:28:35pm

re: #410 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Pure Oscar material

"We're dealing with a menace."

It rises!

It's on instant play on Netflix, btw.

421 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:31:34pm

re: #420 bosforus

It rises!

It's on instant play on Netflix, btw.

Yeah, I'll have to see about pencilling that one into my schedule.

422 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:31:49pm

Queens NY man to enter plea deal admitting to working with al Qaeda.

On the eve of his trial, a Queens man charged with helping Al Qaeda has struck a plea deal with the feds, sources said.

Syed Hashmi is expected to appear in Manhattan Federal Court at 5 p.m. Tuesday to enter a plea to one count of providing material support to a terrorist organization. The charge carries up to 15 years in prison.

The former Brooklyn College student has long claimed he's a victim of guilt by association, and sources cautioned that there was still time for the deal to fall through.

When he was a grad student in London, Hashmi allegedly sheltered an Al Qaeda operative who organized terror training camps in Pakistan - and let him use his cell phone to arrange meetings with other alleged terrorists.

It will be interesting to see his allocution.

423 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:32:09pm

Shifting gears a bit, who on here has read The Salvation War?

424 badger1970  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:32:21pm

re: #418 Guanxi88

And then what happened? *snicker*

425 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:32:47pm

re: #419 LudwigVanQuixote

426 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:33:36pm

re: #414 Obdicut

I'd think a gold bar would be very hard to pass indeed, unless you had a lot of fiber with it.

That's where the tobacco comes in.

427 freetoken  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:34:15pm

"Drill, Baby, Drill" is about to suffer a major PR blow:

Big Oil Fought Off New Safety Rules Before Rig Explosion

As the well continues to pour out 1000 barrels/day into the Gulf of Mexico, the oil slick will grow and, this is the important part, start to wash up along the beaches and cover marine life. If it takes months for the industry to drill a release well, or some other fix, this oil spill will go on for months, and so will the visual aid of seeing the oil spill effects.

Deep ocean drilling is very difficult, and the "Drill Baby Drill" crowd believes in magic. But as the nightly images roll in of a drilling disaster it might sink into the American political system that there is no magic.

428 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:34:49pm

Time for my mandatory Exurban Gloat:

Two days ago, sipping coffee in my kitchen, I'm jarred by the unmistakable sound of two pistol shots in rapid succession.

Cautiously retrieving my own artillery while calming down the Mrs. and distracting the young 'uns, I step out to investigate.

Guy two doors up: "Sorry, sorry!"

"What happened?"

"some sumbitch tried to break into my truck."

"you hit him?"

"No. Crazy bastard."

Elements of the local constabulary arrived some time later, and cautioned him against keeping a starter's pistol for home defense. (wink-wink)

429 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:36:11pm

re: #424 badger1970

And then what happened? *snicker*

Well, at that point, the movie sorta veers off and just turns to total crap. "Snowglobe" type of deal - it was all a super-laced pot nightmare.

430 Slap  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:36:23pm

re: #416 Walter L. Newton

I appreciate your thoughtful take on the creativity of the underlying structure; my question about the term "network" was really confirmation more than anything else. It's always a pleasure, for me, to read things written by people who choose their words with precision.

Especially because I trip up so frequently when I attempt to do so.

In general, it's pretty unusual for any group of network execs to be unsuccessful at injecting utter stupidity into a good idea. But worth applauding when it occurs!

431 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:37:01pm

re: #427 freetoken

I'm glad you posted this. Upding.

432 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:37:46pm

re: #428 Guanxi88

So he fired his weapon several times in a completely illegal fashion at a target and missed completely? Yikes. That's nutty. I hope your kids stay safe.

433 brainiac-dumdum  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:38:03pm

FTA: If I had it to do over, I’d vote for Obama without hesitation.

I've been wondering about just that for quite sometime now.

434 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:38:17pm

re: #427 freetoken

"Drill, Baby, Drill" is about to suffer a major PR blow:

Big Oil Fought Off New Safety Rules Before Rig Explosion

As the well continues to pour out 1000 barrels/day into the Gulf of Mexico, the oil slick will grow and, this is the important part, start to wash up along the beaches and cover marine life. If it takes months for the industry to drill a release well, or some other fix, this oil spill will go on for months, and so will the visual aid of seeing the oil spill effects.

Deep ocean drilling is very difficult, and the "Drill Baby Drill" crowd believes in magic. But as the nightly images roll in of a drilling disaster it might sink into the American political system that there is no magic.

Look on the very dim bright side. It isn't another Piper Alpha.

435 bosforus  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:38:17pm

re: #421 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, I'll have to see about pencilling that one into my schedule.

My wife tried to watch it with me on my birthday a few days ago. She lasted about 10 minutes then gave up. The production company that made it, The Asylum, also makes "funny" blatant ripoffs of other movies.
Transmorphers
Allan Quartermain and the Temple of Skulls

They seem like a bunch of crack pots that enjoy making crappy movies.

436 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:39:02pm

re: #432 Obdicut

So he fired his weapon several times in a completely illegal fashion at a target and missed completely? Yikes. That's nutty. I hope your kids stay safe.

Read it again. He did that with a starter pistol.

437 Kragar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:39:21pm

re: #423 Dante41

Shifting gears a bit, who on here has read The Salvation War?

Seems interesting.

438 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:39:27pm

re: #435 bosforus

SomethingAwful has a great transmorphers review.

[Link: www.somethingawful.com...]

439 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:40:16pm

re: #436 Dante41

I took the 'wink wink' to mean that it wasn't actually a starter pistol. Sorry if I got it wrong.

440 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:42:28pm

re: #427 freetoken

"Drill, Baby, Drill" is about to suffer a major PR blow:

Big Oil Fought Off New Safety Rules Before Rig Explosion

As the well continues to pour out 1000 barrels/day into the Gulf of Mexico, the oil slick will grow and, this is the important part, start to wash up along the beaches and cover marine life. If it takes months for the industry to drill a release well, or some other fix, this oil spill will go on for months, and so will the visual aid of seeing the oil spill effects.

Deep ocean drilling is very difficult, and the "Drill Baby Drill" crowd believes in magic. But as the nightly images roll in of a drilling disaster it might sink into the American political system that there is no magic.

Good post. In about 5,4,3,2,1 Rush "the sausage" is going to try to blame some union for this disaster just like he did with the non-union mine disaster.

441 freetoken  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:42:52pm

re: #434 Dante41

That was a deadly North Sea oil rig disaster, and many people died, while 11 died in this disaster in the Gulf.

The US disaster, though less costly in terms of lives lost, comes at a time when the President's latest off shore drilling decision is being attacked by both environmentalists and the DBD crowd. A protracted oil spill, the effects of which will be televised, will give strong PR to the environmentalists trying for the ear of the President.

442 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:45:14pm

re: #439 Obdicut

I took the 'wink wink' to mean that it wasn't actually a starter pistol. Sorry if I got it wrong.

Ooooo.....It looks like I got it wrong instead. Man, my reading skills just aren't up to par today.

443 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:45:19pm

re: #432 Obdicut

So he fired his weapon several times in a completely illegal fashion at a target and missed completely? Yikes. That's nutty. I hope your kids stay safe.

His firing wasn't illegal; his aim was crappy, is all. Can happen to anyone.

And yes, the wink wink was the cops' preferred interpretation of the event; discharging a firearm in the city limits means a hassle for all involved, and they've got stray cattle and such to contend with (no, really. the local paper had a notice this morning about an unbranded bull found by one of the parks).

444 bosforus  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:46:25pm

re: #438 Obdicut

SomethingAwful has a great transmorphers review.

[Link: www.somethingawful.com...]

I like how the transmorpher in the animated gif actually just morphs into a new shape instead of transforming. Ha ha! I've only seen Transmorphers 2 - Fall of Man. I'll have to check out the first someday.

445 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:46:40pm

re: #443 Guanxi88

What law allows a civilian to fire a deadly weapon at someone committing a property crime, please?

And given that he missed, isn't that a concern to you? Where did the bullets wind up?

446 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:47:02pm

re: #423 Dante41

Shifting gears a bit, who on here has read The Salvation War?

F*** yes, great story!

447 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:47:43pm

re: #437 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Seems interesting.

It is. For those who haven't heard of it, it can be summarized as thus: Yahweh decides to let Satan kick off Armageddon, since we aren't blindly following him anymore. Satan does and invades Earth. Humanity has a collective "Aw HELL no" reaction, and invades Hell.

448 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:48:20pm

re: #441 freetoken

That was a deadly North Sea oil rig disaster, and many people died, while 11 died in this disaster in the Gulf.

That is tragic.

The US disaster, though less costly in terms of lives lost, comes at a time when the President's latest off shore drilling decision is being attacked by both environmentalists and the DBD crowd. A protracted oil spill, the effects of which will be televised, will give strong PR to the environmentalists trying for the ear of the President.

That is a blessing.

449 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:48:50pm

re: #445 Obdicut

What law allows a civilian to fire a deadly weapon at someone committing a property crime, please?

And given that he missed, isn't that a concern to you? Where did the bullets wind up?

No law permits that, as such, but Texas statutes take a slightly more expansive view of when one can or cannot use deadly force. As for his missed rounds, my best guess is they ended up in his driveway.

450 freetoken  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:49:21pm

The story:

Long-Term Effects Feared After Gulf of Mexico Oil Rig Explosion

When the Transocean, Ltd. oil drilling rig exploded and sank off the coast of Louisiana last week, it set off a chain of events that could have long-term economic and environmental effects on several southern U.S. states. It also could affect President Barack Obama's plans to increase off-shore drilling in the Gulf of Mexico.

451 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:49:44pm

re: #370 LudwigVanQuixote

Last I checked, Gandhi didn't take hostages or send suicide murderers. None the less, there will be a section of the moonbat left who forgets that point.

The Palestinians do not want "their own state, side by side with Israel." If that is really what they wanted, they would have it by now. They want the annihilation of Israel.

452 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:49:48pm

re: #447 Dante41

It is. For those who haven't heard of it, it can be summarized as thus: Yahweh decides to let Satan kick off Armageddon, since we aren't blindly following him anymore. Satan does and invades Earth. Humanity has a collective "Aw HELL no" reaction, and invades Hell.

And after that in the second book having conquered Hell we aim our sights on the "white bearded" bastard who shut the pearly gates on us in the first place!

453 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:50:22pm

re: #449 Guanxi88

I would say your neighbor got off extremely lightly. He'd be sitting in jail around here. Another reason I'd never move to Texas I guess..

454 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:51:17pm

re: #451 Alouette

The Palestinians do not want "their own state, side by side with Israel." If that is really what they wanted, they would have it by now. They want the annihilation of Israel.

Of course that's true. I am very glad you emphasized that.

455 brainiac-dumdum  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:52:15pm

Also, it's ridiculous that changing your mind is so feared and ridiculed by some on the Right. It's almost as if they were opposed to the measured and reasoned evaluation of evidence.

456 freetoken  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:52:52pm

re: #448 LudwigVanQuixote

BTW Ludwig, I see many in the media are really messing up the "missing heat" story. Alas, I have given up hope of there being capable science reporting on the whole.

457 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:53:14pm

re: #452 jamesfirecat

And after that in the second book having conquered Hell we aim our sights on the "white bearded" bastard who shut the pearly gates on us in the first place!

Have you been keeping up with the updates?

458 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:53:19pm

re: #453 McSpiff

I would say your neighbor got off extremely lightly. He'd be sitting in jail around here. Another reason I'd never move to Texas I guess..

Yeah, it took a bit of getting used to, Texas and its way of looking at things. In this case, the state's famous "Castle Doctrine" would be applicable, as the attempted breaking and entering was still committed when it was dark (morning, but around 5 a.m. or so), but I think everyone was better served by the starter pistol explanation.

Now, had his rounds gone and struck another person or property unintentionally, there'd be Hell to pay, of course. Still, it's a good deal.

When I lived in Hyde Park, MA, gunfire did not cause me to go and see what was wrong.

459 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:53:45pm

re: #449 Guanxi88

No law permits that, as such, but Texas statutes take a slightly more expansive view of when one can or cannot use deadly force. As for his missed rounds, my best guess is they ended up in his driveway.

Okay. So yes, he did fire his weapon in an illegal manner. And you don't really know where the bullets wound up. Great. Maybe one of them went through a congressman's window.

So, like i said, I hope your kids stay safe.

460 freetoken  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:54:49pm

Indeed, with the necessity to have conflict and controversy to sell a story, I fear that any reasonable discussion about highly complex issues of science (or technology) can make it in the general media.

461 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:54:55pm

re: #459 Obdicut

Okay. So yes, he did fire his weapon in an illegal manner. And you don't really know where the bullets wound up. Great. Maybe one of them went through a congressman's window.

So, like i said, I hope your kids stay safe.

Kids are fine, and far safer where we are than where we were. As for the congressman's window, Representative Cuellar's office is right by the courthouse - safest place in town.

462 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:54:57pm

Yet another reason I am glad to not live in Texas. (No offense intended to sane Texans)

463 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:55:37pm

re: #456 freetoken

BTW Ludwig, I see many in the media are really messing up the "missing heat" story. Alas, I have given up hope of there being capable science reporting on the whole.

Oh dear G-d, what is the missing heat story? I've been really busy of late doing actual work, so I am not up on the current media memes. If you point me at it, I will debunk whatever crap.

464 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:55:40pm

re: #462 Fozzie Bear

Yet another reason I am glad to not live in Texas. (No offense intended to sane Texans)

None taken, and the crazy ones wouldn't care.

465 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:56:22pm

re: #456 freetoken

BTW Ludwig, I see many in the media are really messing up the "missing heat" story. Alas, I have given up hope of there being capable science reporting on the whole.

Is this a good article...

[Link: www.sciencedaily.com...]

466 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:57:58pm

re: #458 Guanxi88

Well, if you and yours are happy and safe there, more power to ya.

467 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 1:59:29pm

For those concerned about Guadalupe County and the safety of those residing therein, please note - the incident was unusual, but, no harm no foul, and so it was let to drift.

In general, there's almost no crime to speak of around here, save for a bit of mischief by bored youngsters. No graffiti that I've noticed, almost no vandalism, save by the high school, where one would expect it.

Odds are that any gunfire one would hear would either be from a range or from someone defending self and property.

468 bratwurst  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:00:34pm

re: #455 brainiac-dumdum

Also, it's ridiculous that changing your mind is so feared and ridiculed by some on the Right. It's almost as if they were opposed to the measured and reasoned evaluation of evidence.

Agreed. Wait until Mitt "I was for HCR and a woman's right to choose before I was against them" Romeny comes face-to-face with the "FLIP-FLOPPERS=EVIL!!11!!" crowd as his presidential campaign begins in earnest.

469 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:01:00pm

re: #467 Guanxi88

For those concerned about Guadalupe County and the safety of those residing therein, please note - the incident was unusual, but, no harm no foul, and so it was let to drift.

In general, there's almost no crime to speak of around here, save for a bit of mischief by bored youngsters. No graffiti that I've noticed, almost no vandalism, save by the high school, where one would expect it.

Odds are that any gunfire one would hear would either be from a range or from someone defending self and property.

Of course there's no graffiti or vandalism, who would want to risk getting shot for that?

470 freetoken  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:01:00pm

re: #463 LudwigVanQuixote

There's a link to Pielke Jr. in the spin-offs, that should get you started. Otherwise, try here:

Good luck

471 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:01:31pm

re: #457 Dante41

Have you been keeping up with the updates?

Of course I have, great that they finally got around to telling us what Robert E. Lee is doing these days after we sprang him from hell...

472 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:02:30pm

re: #469 McSpiff

Of course there's no graffiti or vandalism, who would want to risk getting shot for that?

Hadn't considered that aspect of it, but I think you may be onto something there.

473 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:02:33pm

re: #468 bratwurst

Agreed. Wait until Mitt "I was for HCR and a woman's right to choose before I was against them" Romeny comes face-to-face with the "FLIP-FLOPPERS=EVIL!!11!!" crowd as his presidential campaign begins in earnest.

To quote Jon Stewart on Mitt Romney

"A patrician flip flopper from Massachusetts, (cue image of Kerry popping up) good luck with that."

474 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:03:30pm

re: #470 freetoken

There's a link to Pielke Jr. in the spin-offs, that should get you started. Otherwise, try here:

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

Good luck

Is there something wrong with this report?

[Link: www.sciencedaily.com...]>www.sciencedaily.com

475 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:03:52pm

re: #471 jamesfirecat

Of course I have, great that they finally got around to telling us what Robert E. Lee is doing these days after we sprang him from hell...

Just makin' sure, my good man. Hopefully Stuart will be able to keep up the brisk update schedule until the end of Pantheocide.

476 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:05:26pm

re: #472 Guanxi88

Hadn't considered that aspect of it, but I think you may be onto something there.

I don't want to sound too anti-Texas either. I'm sure its a lovely spot. But I just disagree with some of the basic philosophies, like the castle doctrine and its use of the death penalty. But Texans seem for the most part happy with the way it is, so who am I to argue about how they should run their(your) state?

477 Guanxi88  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:06:30pm

re: #476 McSpiff

But Texans seem for the most part happy with the way it is, so who am I to argue about how they should run their(your) state?

I'm not a Texan - I immigrated, along with my wife. Our children though, are native-born, and wore boots before they could walk.

478 freetoken  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:06:32pm

re: #474 Walter L. Newton

It's usually not the articles in science magazines or legit science websites that is the problem, it's how it is being played out in the general media, and how the denial-o-sphere exploits lack of knowledge about these issues.

479 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:07:06pm

re: #465 Walter L. Newton

Is this a good article...

[Link: www.sciencedaily.com...]

Yes it is a good article. If one reads the whole thing, one understands the issue quite well. The Earth has very many complicated systems in it ans energy (heat is a form of energy) is conserved. We do not know where all the energy coming in is being spent. This is NOT a win for the denial crowd. It actually tells you that the situation is much worse than current models predict.

Please note that this is the reason that the models are consistently low ball. There is more energy in the system than they account for. This situation must be worse than they predict because the actual energy budget is greater. I have linked again and again here how nature is outstripping projections.

To quote one of the authors:

"The heat will come back to haunt us sooner or later," says NCAR scientist Kevin Trenberth, the lead author. "The reprieve we've had from warming temperatures in the last few years will not continue. It is critical to track the build-up of energy in our climate system so we can understand what is happening and predict our future climate."

No I dissagree that the models are as bad as this article would indicate. I do not agree with the finding that we can not account for half of the heat. I think the actual number will turn out to be a bit less than that. However, it is a mystery that many folks are working on. The heat must be driving some system. We don't know what that system is and we don't know what feedbacks it will have until we identify it.

Either the satellite observations are incorrect, says Trenberth, or, more likely, large amounts of heat are penetrating to regions that are not adequately measured, such as the deepest parts of the oceans. Compounding the problem, Earth's surface temperatures have largely leveled off in recent years. Yet melting glaciers and Arctic sea ice, along with rising sea levels, indicate that heat is continuing to have profound effects on the planet.

There's more to climate change than warmer air
As greenhouse gases accumulate in the atmosphere, satellite instruments show a growing imbalance between energy entering the atmosphere from the Sun and energy leaving from Earth's surface. This imbalance is the source of long-term global warming.

But tracking the growing amount of heat on Earth is far more complicated than measuring temperatures at the planet's surface. The oceans absorb about 90 percent of the solar energy that is trapped by greenhouse gases. Additional amounts of heat go toward melting glaciers and sea ice, as well as warming the land and parts of the atmosphere. Only a tiny fraction warms the air at the planet's surface.

Satellite measurements indicate that the amount of greenhouse-trapped solar energy has risen over recent years while the increase in heat measured in the top 3,000 feet of the ocean has stalled. Although it is difficult to quantify the amount of solar energy with precision, Trenberth and Fasullo estimate that, based on satellite data, the amount of energy build-up appears to be about 1.0 watts per square meter or higher, while ocean instruments indicate a build-up of about 0.5 watts per square meter. That means about half the total amount of heat is unaccounted for.

480 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:07:50pm

re: #470 freetoken

There's a link to Pielke Jr. in the spin-offs, that should get you started. Otherwise, try here:

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

Good luck

See my 479.

481 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:08:34pm

re: #476 McSpiff

I don't want to sound too anti-Texas either. I'm sure its a lovely spot. But I just disagree with some of the basic philosophies, like the castle doctrine and its use of the death penalty. But Texans seem for the most part happy with the way it is, so who am I to argue about how they should run their(your) state?

I think the way it supposed to go is more castle doctrine, less death penalty... but I am from NY...

482 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:09:31pm

re: #476 McSpiff

I don't want to sound too anti-Texas either. I'm sure its a lovely spot. But I just disagree with some of the basic philosophies, like the castle doctrine and its use of the death penalty. But Texans seem for the most part happy with the way it is, so who am I to argue about how they should run their(your) state?

I love the Florida castle law, warts and all. Beats having to sit back and meditate on exactly how much force is too much if some bastard breaks into my house...

483 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:10:19pm

re: #482 Aceofwhat?

I love the Florida castle law, warts and all. Beats having to sit back and meditate on exactly how much force is too much if some bastard breaks into my house...

5 or 6 ounces should do it. no?

484 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:10:49pm

re: #478 freetoken

It's usually not the articles in science magazines or legit science websites that is the problem, it's how it is being played out in the general media, and how the denial-o-sphere exploits lack of knowledge about these issues.

I never even heard of this recent revelation by Trebrerth until you mentioned it. And that was the first article I came up with when I Googled it.

485 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:10:50pm

re: #476 McSpiff

I don't want to sound too anti-Texas either. I'm sure its a lovely spot. But I just disagree with some of the basic philosophies, like the castle doctrine and its use of the death penalty. But Texans seem for the most part happy with the way it is, so who am I to argue about how they should run their(your) state?

Actually the two policies you named are Texas policies I agree with. There's no reason you should have to retreat inside your own home.

486 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:13:46pm

re: #485 Dark_Falcon

Like I said, fair enough. Hope you live in a state with similar laws in that case. Or that you petition your legislature to do the same. I won't be.

487 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:14:03pm

re: #485 Dark_Falcon

Do you think people should be allowed to fire weapons loaded with ammunition that can easily penetrate the walls of their house and travel outside their property?

My main problem with castle laws is that it encourages people to act wildly irresponsibly, like the neighbor above.

It is a very tough quandary-- made worse by no-knock warrants that bring armed civilians into conflict with armed LEOs.

488 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:14:20pm

re: #476 McSpiff

I don't want to sound too anti-Texas either. I'm sure its a lovely spot. But I just disagree with some of the basic philosophies, like the castle doctrine and its use of the death penalty. But Texans seem for the most part happy with the way it is, so who am I to argue about how they should run their(your) state?

Most people can live with it, considering they don't want to have to go to jail because they were protecting themselves INSIDE their own homes.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

489 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:15:11pm

re: #487 Obdicut

Do you think people should be allowed to fire weapons loaded with ammunition that can easily penetrate the walls of their house and travel outside their property?

My main problem with castle laws is that it encourages people to act wildly irresponsibly, like the neighbor above.

It is a very tough quandary-- made worse by no-knock warrants that bring armed civilians into conflict with armed LEOs.

No... just the thief that is in your home.

490 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:15:54pm

re: #489 Walter L. Newton

No... just the thief that is in your home.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. Just the thief that is in your home what?

491 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:17:25pm

re: #487 Obdicut

Do you think people should be allowed to fire weapons loaded with ammunition that can easily penetrate the walls of their house and travel outside their property?

My main problem with castle laws is that it encourages people to act wildly irresponsibly, like the neighbor above.

It is a very tough quandary-- made worse by no-knock warrants that bring armed civilians into conflict with armed LEOs.

We have a really strong one...

"...any occupant of a dwelling is justified in using any degree of physical force, including deadly physical force, against another person when that other person has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, and when the occupant has a reasonable belief that such other person has committed a crime in the dwelling in addition to the uninvited entry, or is committing or intends to commit a crime against a person or property in addition to the uninvited entry, and when the occupant reasonably believes that such other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight, against any occupant."

492 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:18:02pm

re: #488 Walter L. Newton

Apparently the citizens of my jurisdiction disagree. However, its always up to the crown prosecutor to press charges or not, and that has led to an unofficial castle doctrine situation. I disagree with it because at least around here, most "home protection" shootings are crack houses or gang bangers getting robbed, and I'd rather see all of them go to jail.

493 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:18:59pm

More on the missing heat thing:

[Link: www.sciencedaily.com...]

Satellite sensors show that the amount of greenhouse-trapped solar energy, or heat, has risen over recent years. But in the past decade, there has been a growing divergence between the satellite readings and ocean observations that indicate the build-up of heat is slowing. This "missing" heat could, in part, be the result of instrument error or incorrect data processing, but much of it may be going into the deep ocean or elsewhere on Earth that is beyond the reach of current sensors. This graph shows simplified estimates of the measurements of heat.

Now there is very little chance that the multiple satellites taking readings are all off, or that all of the thousands of researchers doing analysis messed up their calculation.

We conclude that heat is being transfered to the deep oceans. While there are very many ways that currents can do the mixing, and exact modeling of it has yet to be obtained and further we do not have data from the deep oceans to compare the modelling to.

However, let me emphasize once again, we know that energy is conserved. We know that this extra heat must be doing something. Since the models are really good at taking surface measurements into account and they are consistently low ball, we can conclude that whatever that something is actually is accelerating the warming seen on the surface with direct measurements.

This is also not something new. One of the angry emails that was cherry picked in the e-mail scam was a respected scientist venting that we do not yet have a good understanding of the total energy budget.

494 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:19:09pm

re: #487 Obdicut

Do you think people should be allowed to fire weapons loaded with ammunition that can easily penetrate the walls of their house and travel outside their property?

What's the alternative? You're telling me that you have a gun in your hand and some guy, as far as you can tell, is lunging for you or one of yours, you don't want to be allowed to pull the trigger?

495 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:19:19pm

GUNZ R EEEBILLL

496 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:20:03pm

re: #495 MandyManners

GUNZ R EEEBILLL

I didn't know you felt like that, Mandy. Most people here would disagree.

497 brainiac-dumdum  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:20:13pm

re: #468 bratwurst

Don't forget gay rights! He hasn't been pickling in hate for the requisite amount of time.

After all, this is a man who said, People of integrity don't force their beliefs on others, they make sure that others can live by different beliefs they may have"

Too bad he is now making up for lost time

498 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:21:13pm

re: #496 SanFranciscoZionist

I didn't know you felt like that, Mandy. Most people here would disagree.

They are evil. I can however see them in certain circumstances as a tragically necessary evil.

499 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:21:23pm

re: #495 MandyManners

GUNZ R EEEBILLL

Actually, the vibe I am getting is "Idiots with guns can kill innocent people", which I think everyone can agree on.

500 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:21:36pm

re: #487 Obdicut

Do you think people should be allowed to fire weapons loaded with ammunition that can easily penetrate the walls of their house and travel outside their property?

My main problem with castle laws is that it encourages people to act wildly irresponsibly, like the neighbor above.

It is a very tough quandary-- made worse by no-knock warrants that bring armed civilians into conflict with armed LEOs.

Yes they should be allowed to use such weapons. Sometimes, a rifle or shotgun may be the thing close to hand when someone breaks in. It's the crook who creates the subsequent danger, not the person being robbed. Forcing them to let it happen permits crime, and demoralizes the law-abiding. Better the robber be killed.

501 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:22:36pm

re: #493 LudwigVanQuixote

More on the missing heat thing:

[Link: www.sciencedaily.com...]

Now there is very little chance that the multiple satellites taking readings are all off, or that all of the thousands of researchers doing analysis messed up their calculation.

We conclude that heat is being transfered to the deep oceans. While there are very many ways that currents can do the mixing, and exact modeling of it has yet to be obtained and further we do not have data from the deep oceans to compare the modelling to.

However, let me emphasize once again, we know that energy is conserved. We know that this extra heat must be doing something. Since the models are really good at taking surface measurements into account and they are consistently low ball, we can conclude that whatever that something is actually is accelerating the warming seen on the surface with direct measurements.

This is also not something new. One of the angry emails that was cherry picked in the e-mail scam was a respected scientist venting that we do not yet have a good understanding of the total energy budget.

I read the article... interesting... a lot of question, I guess there are a number of answers, or possible answers... I suspect we will need to know more.

502 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:23:20pm

re: #499 Dante41

Actually, the vibe I am getting is "Idiots with guns can kill innocent people", which I think everyone can agree on.

Indeed. Criminals kill even more innocent people, though, so in balance it seems logical to weigh laws in favor of the innocent idiot over the ill-intentioned home invader, n'est-ce pas?

503 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:23:25pm

re: #494 Aceofwhat?

What's the alternative? You're telling me that you have a gun in your hand and some guy, as far as you can tell, is lunging for you or one of yours, you don't want to be allowed to pull the trigger?

Where the hell do you get that from my post? I was specifically talking about overpowered ammunition. Though of course, it feeds into the question of which weapons are allowable, too, but all I said was about ammunition.

I do have a problem with someone firing a weapon at a thief if it is reasonable to assume that that bullet will continue through that thief, through the wall or door, and into someone else's property with lethal force.

Is that some kind of whack-a-doodle position to you?

504 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:24:26pm

re: #498 LudwigVanQuixote

They are evil. I can however see them in certain circumstances as a tragically necessary evil.

And actually, Israel has a "castle law" of its own.

505 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:24:35pm

re: #495 MandyManners

GUNZ R EEEBILLL

I don't think inanimate objects can be evill. Irresponsible and criminal usage of guns is evil, though.

506 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:25:03pm

re: #503 Obdicut

Where the hell do you get that from my post? I was specifically talking about overpowered ammunition. Though of course, it feeds into the question of which weapons are allowable, too, but all I said was about ammunition.

I do have a problem with someone firing a weapon at a thief if it is reasonable to assume that that bullet will continue through that thief, through the wall or door, and into someone else's property with lethal force.

Is that some kind of whack-a-doodle position to you?

Yes... in the heat of a armed robbery, I'm not taking the time to do ballistic calculation worksheets.

507 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:25:21pm

re: #501 Walter L. Newton

I read the article... interesting... a lot of question, I guess there are a number of answers, or possible answers... I suspect we will need to know more.

That is of course true. However, don't for one second let this make you think there is somehow less of a problem with AGW or that CO2 is less of a driver or any of that.

Energy can be spent on doing lots of different things. Just because we don't know all the things it is doing, does NOT mean we can't see the bad effects from it being spent on the things we can account for.

508 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:26:36pm

re: #503 Obdicut

Where the hell do you get that from my post? I was specifically talking about overpowered ammunition. Though of course, it feeds into the question of which weapons are allowable, too, but all I said was about ammunition.

I do have a problem with someone firing a weapon at a thief if it is reasonable to assume that that bullet will continue through that thief, through the wall or door, and into someone else's property with lethal force.

Is that some kind of whack-a-doodle position to you?

Ah. I misunderstood you. I'm sorry. The reason i misunderstood you, just so we're clear, is that most guns have ammo that will punch straight through the drywall and aluminum siding of your house. So I read your first paragraph to be "most guns". I don't think that the ammunition choice greatly affects whether your gun has enough power to shoot through your wall, and while we're at it, i believe that it's more accurate to say that the most deadly ammo is LESS likely to do so because it's designed to break up in the body (i.e. hollow point ammo).

and when firing at a thief, very little is reasonable.

509 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:26:39pm

re: #505 Obdicut

I don't think inanimate objects can be evill. Irresponsible and criminal usage of guns is evil, though.

You say that now, but when you're getting shot at a by a formally sane man armed with a gonne you'll wish that Leonard of Quirm had never been born!

510 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:26:49pm

re: #470 freetoken

I hope I have answered to your satisfaction.

511 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:26:58pm

A friend of my husband's once nearly opened fire on his girlfriend's peacock feather collection when it failed to answer his challenge.

In his defense, he said he was jittery because he'd heard shots up the street earlier in the evening.

I pointed out that that may have been some other dude shooting the hell out of a vase full of peacock feathers at his house.

512 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:27:03pm

re: #507 LudwigVanQuixote

That is of course true. However, don't for one second let this make you think there is somehow less of a problem with AGW or that CO2 is less of a driver or any of that.

Energy can be spent on doing lots of different things. Just because we don't know all the things it is doing, does NOT mean we can't see the bad effects from it being spent on the things we can account for.

I haven't said that at all in this thread... have I? Why are you challenging me? I'm the one that found the science article, I'm the one who asked Freetoken and you for an opinion on it.

I didn't ask you to accuse me of something.

513 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:27:15pm

re: #506 Walter L. Newton

Yes... in the heat of a armed robbery, I'm not taking the time to do ballistic calculation worksheets.

Then do it before, when you acquire the weapon, an buy something suitable for your situation.

Discharging a weapon without a good idea of where the bullet will wind up is irresponsible.

514 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:27:47pm

re: #509 jamesfirecat

I literally just dropped that book off on my friend's desk for him to read.

515 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:28:17pm

re: #511 SanFranciscoZionist

A friend of my husband's once nearly opened fire on his girlfriend's peacock feather collection when it failed to answer his challenge.

In his defense, he said he was jittery because he'd heard shots up the street earlier in the evening.

I pointed out that that may have been some other dude shooting the hell out of a vase full of peacock feathers at his house.

a peacock feather collection? yowza. he would have needed to patch and repaint the wall, but the decor would have been improved.../

516 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:29:12pm

re: #508 Aceofwhat?

Yes. People buying ammo for home defense should use highly friable rounds that have little chance of penetration to minimize danger to passer bys.

What you so correctly say is exactly the problem I had with the Brady Campaign; they were campaigning against some of the actually safest bullets, because they were deadly when they hit the target. That is kind of the point.

517 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:29:44pm

re: #515 Aceofwhat?

a peacock feather collection? yowza. he would have needed to patch and repaint the wall, but the decor would have been improved.../

She makes hats.

518 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:30:13pm

re: #517 SanFranciscoZionist

She makes hats.

What a scene!

519 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:30:24pm

re: #513 Obdicut

Then do it before, when you acquire the weapon, an buy something suitable for your situation.

Discharging a weapon without a good idea of where the bullet will wind up is irresponsible.

Well, thank you for your concern. I am very capable of handling the MANY firearms I own, and a good knowledge of what weapon to use for what situation. But thanks for all your help.

Interesting thing is, gun use and ownership is NOT a left/right, black/white issue. If you looked into many of your western states (like Colorado), you are going to find a LOT of agreement right across the political lines, from extreme right wing to left anarchists about guns.

520 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:30:27pm

re: #494 Aceofwhat?

What's the alternative? You're telling me that you have a gun in your hand and some guy, as far as you can tell, is lunging for you or one of yours, you don't want to be allowed to pull the trigger?

The castle doctrine, as I understand it, is one that is enshrined in law pretty much everywhere, not just Florida or Texas. The requirement to retreat is legally a pretty fuzzy one, and it's understood in most places that follow on from English common law that force in defence of the home is not a crime. Certainly self defence is enshrined in law everywhere.

I thought the controversy with the Florida doctrine was the expansion of the Castle Doctrine to pretty much anywhere - as in, you were no longer expected to try to remove yourself from a dangerous situation at all, even if not in your home, but instead authorised to use deadly force no matter where you were.

In any case, as for the neighbour taking shots at his car in the middle of the night from a window, you'd have to hope that there was, in fact, someone trying to steal his car, and not, say, someone passing by who'd dropped something that rolled under the car, or some drunk who was staggering around looking for a place to throw up.

521 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:31:05pm

re: #513 Obdicut

Discharging a weapon without a good idea of where the bullet will wind up is irresponsible.

i don't understand. "missing" is never intended...and if you hit the intruder, there's a chance that the bullet may exit, but that trajectory seems hard to calculate on the fly.

522 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:31:44pm

re: #516 Obdicut

Yes. People buying ammo for home defense should use highly friable rounds that have little chance of penetration to minimize danger to passer bys.

What you so correctly say is exactly the problem I had with the Brady Campaign; they were campaigning against some of the actually safest bullets, because they were deadly when they hit the target. That is kind of the point.

that makes sense

523 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:31:46pm

re: #503 Obdicut

Where the hell do you get that from my post? I was specifically talking about overpowered ammunition. Though of course, it feeds into the question of which weapons are allowable, too, but all I said was about ammunition.

I do have a problem with someone firing a weapon at a thief if it is reasonable to assume that that bullet will continue through that thief, through the wall or door, and into someone else's property with lethal force.

Is that some kind of whack-a-doodle position to you?

That's why recommendations for home defense are either shotguns (definitely not using slugs), or large caliber pistols using frangible ammunition. Neither goes through walls like Danny Vermin's ".88 magnum.... it shoots through schools."

I'm pretty sure that real bad legal problems are in the future of anyone who shoots an FMJ round in their house and it hits someone or something outside, even in Texas.

524 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:31:58pm

re: #516 Obdicut

Yes. People buying ammo for home defense should use highly friable rounds that have little chance of penetration to minimize danger to passer bys.

What you so correctly say is exactly the problem I had with the Brady Campaign; they were campaigning against some of the actually safest bullets, because they were deadly when they hit the target. That is kind of the point.

You have a point, but there should not be a law about it. Such rounds are fairly expensive and I'm not a fan of jacking up the cost of self defense.

525 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:32:29pm

re: #519 Walter L. Newton

That's great, Walter. You see, from your comment about how you weren't going to do ballistics during the fight, it made it seem like you were missing the point. I'm glad that you're a responsible gun owner; by far the vast majority of gun owners are.

I fully support the second amendment right to bear arms, and I disagree with the ACLU; I think it's an individual right. However, discharging firearms is an entirely, entirely different kettle of fish than owning them.

526 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:32:32pm

re: #511 SanFranciscoZionist

A friend of my husband's once nearly opened fire on his girlfriend's peacock feather collection when it failed to answer his challenge.

In his defense, he said he was jittery because he'd heard shots up the street earlier in the evening.

I pointed out that that may have been some other dude shooting the hell out of a vase full of peacock feathers at his house.

The stat that pro-gun folks always ignore is the fact that most people get shot in accidents in this country.

Guns are powerful weapons. Even people who think they are not idiots, do not have any business with them unless they take the time to learn how to properly respect them.

527 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:32:45pm

re: #502 Aceofwhat?

Indeed. Criminals kill even more innocent people, though, so in balance it seems logical to weigh laws in favor of the innocent idiot over the ill-intentioned home invader, n'est-ce pas?

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to make an argument to take all guns away. Just that irresponsible people armed with weapons that they don't fully understand, if they understand them at all, are dangerous.

Stupidity and firearms do not mix.

528 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:33:09pm

re: #512 Walter L. Newton

I haven't said that at all in this thread... have I? Why are you challenging me? I'm the one that found the science article, I'm the one who asked Freetoken and you for an opinion on it.

I didn't ask you to accuse me of something.

Dude chill. You weren't accused.

529 brainiac-dumdum  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:33:34pm

re: #513 Obdicut

Discharging a weapon without a good idea of where the bullet will wind up is irresponsible.

especially if you live in an urban area

530 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:33:36pm

re: #511 SanFranciscoZionist

I pointed out that that may have been some other dude shooting the hell out of a vase full of peacock feathers at his house.

Jebus people, think of the peacock feathers!

531 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:34:13pm

re: #524 Dark_Falcon

You have a point, but there should not be a law about it. Such rounds are fairly expensive and I'm not a fan of jacking up the cost of self defense.

My suggestion is that if you're gonna get a home defense gun, just get a shotgun. Little need to aim the sucker, low chance of the shot leaving your house, devastating at close range (and unless you own a mansion odds are it will be close range) and to top it off you can scare the piss out of the robber when you pump it.

532 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:35:17pm

re: #530 webevintage

Jebus people, think of the peacock feathers!

Well the whole thing starts with the bad luck it is to have peacock feathers inside....evil eye thingy you know.

533 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:35:17pm

re: #520 Renaissance_Man

The castle doctrine, as I understand it, is one that is enshrined in law pretty much everywhere, not just Florida or Texas. The requirement to retreat is legally a pretty fuzzy one, and it's understood in most places that follow on from English common law that force in defence of the home is not a crime. Certainly self defence is enshrined in law everywhere.

I thought the controversy with the Florida doctrine was the expansion of the Castle Doctrine to pretty much anywhere - as in, you were no longer expected to try to remove yourself from a dangerous situation at all, even if not in your home, but instead authorised to use deadly force no matter where you were.

In any case, as for the neighbour taking shots at his car in the middle of the night from a window, you'd have to hope that there was, in fact, someone trying to steal his car, and not, say, someone passing by who'd dropped something that rolled under the car, or some drunk who was staggering around looking for a place to throw up.

Not exactly. IIRC, it specifies in the first part that an intruder into your home can be dealt with in whatever manner you choose.

In the second part, it specifies that if you are attacked in any setting, public or private, you have the right to stand and defend yourself; you are no longer required to attempt to flee.

Does that help?

534 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:35:50pm

re: #527 Dante41

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to make an argument to take all guns away. Just that irresponsible people armed with weapons that they don't fully understand, if they understand them at all, are dangerous.

Stupidity and firearms do not mix.

i can't disagree with that!

535 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:36:13pm

re: #524 Dark_Falcon

I feel there should be laws about the unsafe discharge of firearms in any circumstance. I think that a reasonable jury of citizens will let off those who were responsible in their usage, and hold accountable people who were not.

536 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:37:27pm

re: #533 Aceofwhat?

Not exactly. IIRC, it specifies in the first part that an intruder into your home can be dealt with in whatever manner you choose.


Well, I think you have a range of options, but probably pushing them downstairs and letting them starve to death next to your washing machine isn't one of them.

537 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:37:58pm

re: #517 SanFranciscoZionist

She makes hats.

that is all kinds of hilarious

538 CuriousLurker  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:38:22pm

re: #531 jamesfirecat

...and to top it off you can scare the piss out of the robber when you pump it.

Definitely one of the most bone-chilling sounds I know of. *shudder*

539 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:38:40pm

re: #535 Obdicut

I feel there should be laws about the unsafe discharge of firearms in any circumstance. I think that a reasonable jury of citizens will let off those who were responsible in their usage, and hold accountable people who were not.

Most places have such laws.

540 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:38:44pm

re: #536 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, I think you have a range of options, but probably pushing them downstairs and letting them starve to death next to your washing machine isn't one of them.

crap, you're probably right. hang on a second, i'll be right back...

541 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:40:43pm

re: #528 LudwigVanQuixote

Dude chill. You weren't accused.

If the "missing heat" is possibly in the ocean, deep, then could that have something to do with the rise in sea levels?

542 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:40:48pm

re: #536 SanFranciscoZionist

To me, opposition to simple Castle Doctrine stuff-- that you can defend yourself against intruders in your home-- is silly, since people are not really going to be taking the law into account in that circumstance; they'll be acting as they think best protects themselves and their family.

I do, think, however, that it's important to note how many cases there are of people mistakenly shooting friends, neighbors, loved ones, relatives, and random people in the wrong place at the wrong time. That doesn't mean that we should make defending yourself illegal; it means, mostly, that we should do more to curb violent crime in the US.

The US is far safer now than it was fifteen years ago in terms of violent crime; for that I'm grateful. But I think that we still need to lower it further and make people feel safer in their homes. For me, marijuana legalization and an increase in community policing are the best approaches to that.

543 researchok  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:41:39pm

Back in the saddle again.

544 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:41:56pm

re: #522 Aceofwhat?

Did my 516 clear up what I meant about knowing where the bullet will wind up sufficiently, Ace?

545 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:42:22pm

re: #527 Dante41

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to make an argument to take all guns away. Just that irresponsible people armed with weapons that they don't fully understand, if they understand them at all, are dangerous.

Stupidity and firearms do not mix.

The problem then becomes, unfortunately, that even intelligent people fall in and out of stupidity several times a day. Intelligent, responsible people who've had a few drinks are pretty stupid. Intelligent, responsible people at 3am with eyes full of sleep are pretty stupid.

546 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:42:58pm

re: #535 Obdicut

I feel there should be laws about the unsafe discharge of firearms in any circumstance. I think that a reasonable jury of citizens will let off those who were responsible in their usage, and hold accountable people who were not.

if that were true, these laws wouldn't spring up, unfortunately.

again, the Florida law does not say you can shoot someone in your driveway. once they intrude into your house, where you are far less likely to hurt anyone else and far more likely to be in danger yourself, you may shoot them, whack them, twist their nipples, poke them in the eye, or pull out the old hairspray-and-lighter trick.

i'll go fishing for non-gang related gun deaths in florida, if i can find such a thing...as i recall, there was some wailing and gnashing of teeth about how it was about to become the wild west down here...

547 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:43:35pm

Tim Blair struggles to understand how a human being can change an opinion, comes up blank:

Johnson hasn’t changed his mind about Obama; he’s changed his mind about his own coverage of Obama.

Which is supposed to be very bad, I think. And Timmy calls me "son," which I believe indicates he's getting a bit hot under the right wing dog collar he wears.

548 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:45:03pm

re: #544 Obdicut

Did my 516 clear up what I meant about knowing where the bullet will wind up sufficiently, Ace?

yes, and i support a heavy restriction on the sale of armor-piercing ammo, but again, most bullets will not pierce a human body and then a wall and then another human who is some distance away.

thanks for your patience-

549 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:45:31pm

re: #535 Obdicut

I feel there should be laws about the unsafe discharge of firearms in any circumstance. I think that a reasonable jury of citizens will let off those who were responsible in their usage, and hold accountable people who were not.

The problem is that defending yourself before such a jury entails ruinous expense to many people. Moreover, it's still a crapshoot: Sometimes juries convict simply because one side has the better lawyer. I'd rather err on the side of not bringing charges, and I'd prefer laws that did so as well.

550 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:45:52pm

re: #493 LudwigVanQuixote

The last paragraph of the article:

"Global warming at its heart is driven by an imbalance of energy: more solar energy is entering the atmosphere than leaving it," Fasullo says. "Our concern is that we aren't able to entirely monitor or understand the imbalance. This reveals a glaring hole in our ability to observe the build-up of heat in our climate system."

I don't think the authors concluded that that heat is in the ocean. They speculated that was a possible explanation. So when you say "we conclude" to whom other than yourself do you refer.

551 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:47:08pm

re: #548 Aceofwhat?

No problem. I realize that this is a subject where some on the 'left' have staked out very unreasonable claims and used false statistics in scaremongering attempts, so I think it's a duty of those of us who support gun regulation to make good cases for it.

552 researchok  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:47:18pm

re: #547 Charles

Tim Blair struggles to understand how a human being can change an opinion, comes up blank:

Which is supposed to be very bad, I think. And Timmy calls me "son," which I believe indicates he's getting a bit hot under the right wing dog collar he wears.

Blair has made himself look silly. Given his soapbox, you'd think he would find something more relevant to write about. Unless of course, he realizes you might be on to something- and he's boxed himself into a corner.

553 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:48:35pm

re: #547 Charles

Tim Blair struggles to understand how a human being can change an opinion, comes up blank:

Which is supposed to be very bad, I think. And Timmy calls me "son," which I believe indicates he's getting a bit hot under the right wing dog collar he wears.

I think it's like calling you "chuck", its just an attempt by haters to diminish the object of their hate.

554 freetoken  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:49:26pm

re: #541 Walter L. Newton

It shouldn't make any difference in sea levels.

The scientific question at hand is the movement of heat through the world's oceans, especially vertically near the poles. Sometimes the term "turnover" is used to describe how the upper levels of the ocean become mixed with the lower ocean.

Most of the temperature sensors we have deployed in the past have been only in the upper ocean. As such, we don't have a good history of how the temperature in the lower parts of the seas have changed recently.

The specific heat of water is considerably higher than of air, and furthermore since water on Earth's surface undergoes phase changes (gas, solid, liquid), all of which take or release energy, the water cycle on the Earth is the significant player in understanding how the climate will change and where the energy goes in Earth's climate budget.

555 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:49:56pm

re: #551 Obdicut

No problem. I realize that this is a subject where some on the 'left' have staked out very unreasonable claims and used false statistics in scaremongering attempts, so I think it's a duty of those of us who support gun regulation to make good cases for it.

eh, well, i'm not a big fan of the NRA's "legalize it all!1!" stance. someone who wants to own an assault rifle or armor-piercing ammo should go through as much scrutiny as a candidate for the secret service, imho.

556 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:49:57pm

re: #487 Obdicut

Do you think people should be allowed to fire weapons loaded with ammunition that can easily penetrate the walls of their house and travel outside their property?

My main problem with castle laws is that it encourages people to act wildly irresponsibly, like the neighbor above.

It is a very tough quandary-- made worse by no-knock warrants that bring armed civilians into conflict with armed LEOs.

I use Sig Sauers (226 9mm & 220 .45) with lasers (primarily for intimidation) loaded with glaser safety slugs for home defense. I practice, I am not going to miss and I'm not going to shoot through any walls.

I still keep other kinds of rounds in other loaded weapons M1 Garand & .30 Carbine M1, Fox Model B double barreled 12 gauge shotgun, a Marlin Golden 39-A .22 s/l/lr, Ruger Single Six .22, S&W .38 DA revolver, Walther PPK/S in .380 Auto, and the spare Sig magazines in case of the home invasion scenario that is never going to happen.

Even though that's not all of them, I do worry about a zombie apocalypse, and sometimes worry that I'd be woefully under armed in that scenario.

I'm quite have more guns than the average person, but I come from a gun culture and either inherited or received the majority of them as gifts.

In this case I don't see the guy's truck as his castle, he wasn't living out of it. He made an optional choice to engage and was demonstrably unprepared for the encounter.

557 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:50:24pm

re: #549 Dark_Falcon

Well, I disagree. It's a very easy way to literally get away with murder, for one thing.

I'm not saying every time someone discharges a weapon that they should be arrested. I do feel that, for example, someone who fires his weapon several times at a distance at someone committing a property crime in a residential area is a dangerous nutjob and should be arrested.


{semi-sarcasm}
How about we only prosecute those who miss their targets? Then we'll see a lot more responsible gun-handling and a lot more practice time, plus we'll have a kick ass real militia if the Ruskies ever get frisky.
{/semi-sarcasm}

558 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:51:01pm

re: #553 Dark_Falcon

I think it's like calling you "chuck", its just an attempt by haters to diminish the object of their hate.

The only person that can call you "son" is your Dad or Granddad. I don't know how you guys handle it, but I would be PISSED. It's a diminutive.

559 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:51:46pm

re: #547 Charles

And Timmy calls me "son," which I believe indicates he's getting a bit hot under the right wing dog collar he wears.

Maybe he's feeling too old for his little sports cars.

560 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:51:57pm

re: #556 goddamnedfrank

Glasers are a wonderful round for home protection. Good on ya.

In this case I don't see the guy's truck as his castle, he wasn't living out of it. He made an optional choice to engage and was demonstrably unprepared for the encounter.

Exactly.

561 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:53:41pm

re: #547 Charles

If it makes you feel any better, I've never heard of this jackass. He seems pretty obsessed with you, though.

562 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:53:47pm

re: #557 Obdicut

Well, I disagree. It's a very easy way to literally get away with murder, for one thing.

I'm not saying every time someone discharges a weapon that they should be arrested. I do feel that, for example, someone who fires his weapon several times at a distance at someone committing a property crime in a residential area is a dangerous nutjob and should be arrested.

{semi-sarcasm}
How about we only prosecute those who miss their targets? Then we'll see a lot more responsible gun-handling and a lot more practice time, plus we'll have a kick ass real militia if the Ruskies ever get frisky.
{/semi-sarcasm}

I respect your opinion, but still respectfully disagree. I remain concerned about the use of the law as a cudgel by anti-gun prosecutors. Sadly, Illinois has had a problem with such people. This is one of those issues where I do not fully trust the government.

563 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:55:29pm

re: #553 Dark_Falcon

I think it's like calling you "chuck", its just an attempt by haters to diminish the object of their hate.

Perhaps they have confused him with Charlie Brown, and think Charles is as much of a push-over.

564 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:55:45pm

re: #562 Dark_Falcon

It's understandable, and prosecutors have definitely used laws like these to prosecute those who shouldn't have been. To me, though, that is a problem with prosecutors, not with the laws.

I understand and respect your opinion, and to top that off, I respect your respect of my opinion.

565 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:56:40pm

re: #558 Stanley Sea

The only person that can call you "son" is your Dad or Granddad. I don't know how you guys handle it, but I would be PISSED. It's a diminutive.

In this case it is clearly intended to provoke.

566 MandyManners  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:57:37pm

Fear the power of the boobs.

An Iranian cleric's claim that showing skin causes earthquakes was almost proved to be true, after Taiwan experienced a temblor coinciding with women across the globe baring their breasts in defiance, a media report said on Tuesday.

Cleric Kazem Sedighi had said on April 12: "Many women who do not dress modestly... lead young men astray, corrupt their chastity and spread adultery in society, which (consequently) increases earthquakes."

Over 200,000 women across the world, including from Iran, registered on a Facebook event called 'Boobquake' and vowed to bare their chests on Monday in defiance of the cleric's statement.

Coinciding with the event, a tremor, measuring 6.5 on the Richter scale, hit Taiwan on Monday, though it caused relatively little damage. Buildings swayed briefly but none fell and there were no casualties.

But the "Boobquake" organiser, Jennifer McCreight, a student at Purdue University in Indiana, said the Taiwan quake does not count because it happened outside her time zone.

SNIP

567 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:57:38pm

re: #550 Spare O'Lake

The last paragraph of the article:

I don't think the authors concluded that that heat is in the ocean. They speculated that was a possible explanation. So when you say "we conclude" to whom other than yourself do you refer.

The problem is that we don't know, right? Measurements indicate that there is an unaccounted heat sink(s) out there somewhere which, when full, will stop mitigating greenhouse effects and really turn up the heat...right?

not good.

568 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:58:04pm

re: #565 Spare O'Lake

In this case it is clearly intended to provoke.

Certainly did provoke me! dang

569 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:58:13pm

re: #548 Aceofwhat?

California has it's infamous "shoot the burglar" bill as it's critics called it. No big drama ensued, in fact it just took the burden of proof off the homeowner as the the threat. Now it is assumed a person that breaks in is there to harm or rob you. I'll tell you what is going on in defensive ammunition-Frangibles. Bullets designed to come apart on the very first thing they hit. Yet very effective when needed. Lead free too which is good for target practice.

570 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:58:13pm

re: #556 goddamnedfrank

I use Sig Sauers (226 9mm & 220 .45) with lasers (primarily for intimidation) loaded with glaser safety slugs for home defense. I practice, I am not going to miss and I'm not going to shoot through any walls.

I still keep other kinds of rounds in other loaded weapons M1 Garand & .30 Carbine M1, Fox Model B double barreled 12 gauge shotgun, a Marlin Golden 39-A .22 s/l/lr, Ruger Single Six .22, S&W .38 DA revolver, Walther PPK/S in .380 Auto, and the spare Sig magazines in case of the home invasion scenario that is never going to happen.

Even though that's not all of them, I do worry about a zombie apocalypse, and sometimes worry that I'd be woefully under armed in that scenario.

I'm quite have more guns than the average person, but I come from a gun culture and either inherited or received the majority of them as gifts.

In this case I don't see the guy's truck as his castle, he wasn't living out of it. He made an optional choice to engage and was demonstrably unprepared for the encounter.

agree completely

571 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:58:19pm

re: #565 Spare O'Lake
Yep. Calling someone not in your family, actual or otherwise, ' son ' is practically the Caucasian equivalent of ' boy '. Not a polite usage.

572 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:58:41pm

re: #566 MandyManners

Oh, they're very, very afraid of women.


WIMMINZ IS EEBBIL.

The motto of Iranian clerics and the Oklahoma legislature.

573 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 2:58:41pm

re: #547 Charles

Tim Blair struggles to understand how a human being can change an opinion, comes up blank:

Johnson hasn’t changed his mind about Obama; he’s changed his mind about his own coverage of Obama.


Which is supposed to be very bad, I think. And Timmy calls me "son," which I believe indicates he's getting a bit hot under the right wing dog collar he wears.

I wonder if this guy recalls that you changed your coverage of Bush after 9/11.

574 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:00:02pm

re: #566 MandyManners
LOL...
' I feel the earth..... move..... under your... umm , burka'.....

575 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:00:39pm

re: #470 freetoken

There's a link to Pielke Jr. in the spin-offs, that should get you started. Otherwise, try here:

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

Good luck

I read Pielke Jr's blog entry on this... the last three very interesting paragraphs in his comment state...

Second, it took the released CRU emails to open up a public scientific dialogue on this subject, which suggests that there are some issues with either model projections or observations. Judging from the Pielke-Trenberth-Willis exchange, I'd put my money on problems with the models.

Third, none of this should alter how we think about the policy issues, as uncertainties have always been with us and always will. But getting uncertainties out in the open is a new thing for the public face of climate science and undoubtedly some will likely try to reassert the old ways of suppressing uncertainties.

The story of the missing heat does not indicate that climate science is a fraud or that we need not worry about a human influence on the climate system. What it does tell us is that there have been some unhealthy goings on in the climate community and we should all bask in the new found sunshine.

So where is the missing heat? Apparently no one knows, but I hope they find it soon.

I'm not sure what this all means? I understand the part about "does not indicate that climate science is a fraud or that we need not worry about a human influence on the climate system..." but I thought there was nothing wrong with the process, procedures and policies of the major climate science centers... evidently this scientist thinks that it warrants interest... " What it does tell us is that there have been some unhealthy goings on in the climate community..."

Again, am I missing something? Isn't Pielke Jr, Trenberth and Fasullo peer-reviewed and respected scientist... or should I ignore someone in this trinity?

[Link: rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com...]

576 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:01:41pm

Where pickups were special.

The Georgia House on Tuesday passed a measure that would end Georgia's distinction as the last state in the nation to specifically exempt adults in pickups from buckling up.

[Link: www.chron.com...]

577 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:02:42pm

re: #575 Walter L. Newton

Wait... should I even bee linking to ROGER PIELKE JR.'S BLOG? Delete the comment if I goofed.

578 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:02:43pm

Early reports are often false and this is from Fox News....
Fmr Air Force Man Causes Bomb Scare In Air

A former U.S. Air Force intelligence specialist forced an Atlanta-bound flight to land in Bangor, Maine, after he claimed to have explosives in his luggage, according to several U.S. officials.

Federal air marshals restrained the man as Delta flight 273, which left Paris carrying 235 passengers and 13 crew members, landed in Bangor around 3:30 pm ET, one official told Fox News.

After landing, law enforcement officials, including representatives from the Transportation Security Administration and FBI, took the man into custody.

Authorities were still interviewing him early Tuesday evening, and they were still looking for any information to suggest he was in fact carrying explosives, one official said.

The man also claimed to have boarded the flight with "fake" documents," but authorities believe the man's travel documents are authentic, according to one official.

579 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:03:15pm

re: #573 reine.de.tout

I wonder if this guy recalls that you changed your coverage of Bush after 9/11.

Good point.

580 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:03:22pm

re: #575 Walter L. Newton

Well, this part is ass:

What it does tell us is that there have been some unhealthy goings on in the climate community and we should all bask in the new found sunshine.

Given that the 'missing heat' problem has been perfectly well-known for a long time.

It looks like he's attempting to clumsily shoehorn this into somehow being related to CRU, like he's obsessed with proving CRU did something wrong. People like that are kind of amusing.

581 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:03:55pm

re: #575 Walter L. Newton

Eggshells.

582 bosforus  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:05:02pm

re: #547 Charles

Tim Blair struggles to understand how a human being can change an opinion, comes up blank:

Which is supposed to be very bad, I think. And Timmy calls me "son," which I believe indicates he's getting a bit hot under the right wing dog collar he wears.

Please don't disrespect dogs in that way.

583 freetoken  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:05:24pm

re: #575 Walter L. Newton

You probably ought to go read up on the history of the Pielkes before trying weigh his opinion on these matters.

584 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:05:39pm

re: #578 Killgore Trout
A former ' intelligence specialist' .....
If this story is confirmed, there's another shoe in there waiting to drop. Wonder if he was a translator.....

585 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:06:06pm

re: #575 Walter L. Newton

I'm not sure what this all means? I understand the part about "does not indicate that climate science is a fraud or that we need not worry about a human influence on the climate system..." but I thought there was nothing wrong with the process, procedures and policies of the major climate science centers... evidently this scientist thinks that it warrants interest... " What it does tell us is that there have been some unhealthy goings on in the climate community..."

I love it. It's a scientist saying that it's healthier to have a more open dialogue, despite inevitable attempts by others to cherry-pick the dialogue, then to attempt secrecy and the greater risks to credibility which lie along that path.

I'm generalizing, of course, but the more that climatologists admit what they don't know, the less it can be made to seem that they are hiding something or making sensational claims.

586 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:06:47pm

And now for the D'awwww Moment of the Week: newborn Disney goats!

587 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:07:07pm

OT
Hah! Just got the call from my Canon dealer. My new 7D (HD video & SLR) will be ready for pick up tomorrow afternoon. I think a road trip is in order this weekend. Happy Dance!

588 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:07:22pm

re: #584 tradewind

A former ' intelligence specialist' ...
If this story is confirmed, there's another shoe in there waiting to drop. Wonder if he was a translator...

Interesting guess. For whatever reason some people flip out and say some really stupid things on airplanes.

589 freetoken  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:07:26pm

re: #578 Killgore Trout

If true, what a strange event. Why would that guy go through all of this?

590 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:07:34pm

re: #575 Walter L. Newton
Who was the hockey-stick climate-scientist guy? He's had it and he's not gonna take it anymore, I read.... he's suing the YouTube videographer who mocked him so mercilessly.
Which might be really interesting.

592 bosforus  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:08:20pm

re: #586 Dante41

And now for the D'awww Moment of the Week: newborn Disney goats!

I drive by baby goats/lambs every day for work. It's great.

593 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:08:32pm

re: #583 freetoken

You probably ought to go read up on the history of the Pielkes before trying weigh his opinion on these matters.

You're the one that suggested the link. And now you are telling me there is a problem. Why don't you explain it to me. Is he not to be listened to?

594 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:08:38pm

re: #590 tradewind

Who was the hockey-stick climate-scientist guy? He's had it and he's not gonna take it anymore, I read... he's suing the YouTube videographer who mocked him so mercilessly.
Which might be really interesting.

michael mann, i think...

595 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:08:48pm

re: #591 Dark_Falcon

Any pictures of this event? Uncensored, please.

There was an epic Fark thread about it.

596 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:09:10pm

re: #588 Killgore Trout
I can vouch for that.//
Often, there are copious amounts of alcohol and other substances involved.

597 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:09:33pm

re: #590 tradewind

Who was the hockey-stick climate-scientist guy? He's had it and he's not gonna take it anymore, I read... he's suing the YouTube videographer who mocked him so mercilessly.
Which might be really interesting.

Michael Mann... this has nothing to do with Mann. Mann has been vindicated all over the place.

598 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:09:38pm

re: #594 Aceofwhat?
Yes. Not holding my breath for an actual court date.

599 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:10:13pm

re: #597 Walter L. Newton
He must not be satisfied, because he's gone litigious.

600 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:10:31pm

bbiab

601 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:10:55pm

re: #589 freetoken

Some people just snap. I can't imagine what point the guy would want to make by doing that. He might have been stupid, high and/or crazy.

602 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:11:44pm

re: #583 freetoken

You probably ought to go read up on the history of the Pielkes before trying weigh his opinion on these matters.

I'm gonna dig into Roger Pielke, Jr. more... probably find a link to some interest or support by the oil or coal companies, or something like that.

603 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:11:51pm

re: #601 Killgore Trout

Some people just snap. I can't imagine what point the guy would want to make by doing that. He might have been stupid, high and/or crazy.

Or he might be a translator!!! Geeze, that was a reach, at least at this point. Let's get the story!

604 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:12:17pm

re: #353 Walter L. Newton

I've never seen a turd on the show.

That's because, unlike the actors, a turd is smart enough to get off the island.

605 Truth Stick  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:13:10pm

re: #566 MandyManners

Fear the power of the boobs.

An Iranian cleric's claim that showing skin causes earthquakes was almost proved to be true, after Taiwan experienced a temblor coinciding with women across the globe baring their breasts in defiance, a media report said on Tuesday.

we're going to need a little more info on these Boobs......were they really big and the weight caused the crust to buckle underneath the weight, or were they in motion and created some frequency like Tesla's earthquake machine. Reserving all judgment until the facts are in.

606 Dante41  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:13:15pm

re: #591 Dark_Falcon

Any pictures of this event? Uncensored, please.

In fact, here it is: Your text to link...

Might as well throw in a few NSFW's, just in case.

607 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:13:39pm

This appears to be the guy's facebook page: Derek Stansberry
he links to ac130 stuff so that's the military connection but there's nothing political.

608 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:13:47pm

re: #575 Walter L. Newton

Now I am going to accuse you of your typical concern trolling.

I'm not sure what this all means? I understand the part about "does not indicate that climate science is a fraud or that we need not worry about a human influence on the climate system..." but I thought there was nothing wrong with the process, procedures and policies of the major climate science centers... evidently this scientist thinks that it warrants interest... " What it does tell us is that there have been some unhealthy goings on in the climate community..."

For this to be a quibble, that would imply that there was something hidden about this that people were not interested in talking about. It has been a subject of much research for over a decade.

Second, it took the released CRU emails to open up a public scientific dialogue on this subject, which suggests that there are some issues with either model projections or observations. Judging from the Pielke-Trenberth-Willis exchange, I'd put my money on problems with the models.

What? There has been an open debate in the literature about this for a very long time! To even imply that it wasn't is an utter lie and fabrication.

Third, none of this should alter how we think about the policy issues, as uncertainties have always been with us and always will. But getting uncertainties out in the open is a new thing for the public face of climate science and undoubtedly some will likely try to reassert the old ways of suppressing uncertainties.

NO ONE HAS SUPPRESSED ANYTHING! HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THAT? THIS IS A KNOWN ISSUE AND THOSE UNCERTAINTIES CAN ONLY POSSIBLY MAKE THE SITUATION WORSE BECAUSE ENERGY IS CONSERVED!

The story of the missing heat does not indicate that climate science is a fraud or that we need not worry about a human influence on the climate system. What it does tell us is that there have been some unhealthy goings on in the climate community and we should all bask in the new found sunshine.

BULLSHIT! IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN IN THE OPEN! IF ASSHATS LIKE THIS COULDN'T RELY ON THE FACT THAT NO ONE ACTUALLY READS THE SCIENCE BEFORE SHOOTING OFF THEIR MOUTHS, THERE WOULD NOT BE SUCH BULLSHIT ALLOWED TO FLOAT AROUND.

And once again, Walter you are falling for it.

609 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:13:50pm

Speaking of boobquakes, where on the Richter Scale would one place the double spinner move?

610 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:13:59pm

re: #591 Dark_Falcon

Any pictures of this event? Uncensored, please.

Are you sure you want to view pictures of this event? Think "Boobs Not Bombs"

611 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:14:47pm

re: #607 Killgore Trout

This appears to be the guy's facebook page: Derek Stansberry
he links to ac130 stuff so that's the military connection but there's nothing political.

Booze is my guess.

612 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:15:27pm

re: #608 LudwigVanQuixote

Now I am going to accuse you of your typical concern trolling.

BULLSHIT! IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN IN THE OPEN! IF ASSHATS LIKE THIS COULDN'T RELY ON THE FACT THAT NO ONE ACTUALLY READS THE SCIENCE BEFORE SHOOTING OFF THEIR MOUTHS, THERE WOULD NOT BE SUCH BULLSHIT ALLOWED TO FLOAT AROUND.

And once again, Walter you are falling for it.

Accuse me of what ever the fuck you want. Freetoken suggested Roger Pielke, Jr. blog, I read what was there, and the comments are his... not mine... yell at him... shit for brains.

613 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:16:25pm

re: #609 Spare O'Lake

Speaking of boobquakes, where on the Richter Scale would one place the double spinner move?

As performed by Dolly Parton or Sally Field?

614 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:17:04pm

re: #608 LudwigVanQuixote

Now I am going to accuse you of your typical concern trolling.

BULLSHIT! IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN IN THE OPEN! IF ASSHATS LIKE THIS COULDN'T RELY ON THE FACT THAT NO ONE ACTUALLY READS THE SCIENCE BEFORE SHOOTING OFF THEIR MOUTHS, THERE WOULD NOT BE SUCH BULLSHIT ALLOWED TO FLOAT AROUND.

And once again, Walter you are falling for it.

No... what you are accusing me of is reading someone's blog AND BRINGING THAT INFO OVER HERE... evidently now I see that this Roger Pielke, Jr. IS a respected scientist and what he says bothers you, because I didn't write what he said, I didn't make an of this up, you go argue with him.

615 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:17:05pm

re: #612 Walter L. Newton

He shoots...HE SCORES!

616 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:18:46pm

Stormfront assholes are linking to my blog. Do they think this article means "The Holocaust was not that bad"? No, it means they are unhappy that some Jew babies survived.

617 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:19:49pm

re: #608 LudwigVanQuixote

Now I am going to accuse you of your typical concern trolling.

BULLSHIT! IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN IN THE OPEN! IF ASSHATS LIKE THIS COULDN'T RELY ON THE FACT THAT NO ONE ACTUALLY READS THE SCIENCE BEFORE SHOOTING OFF THEIR MOUTHS, THERE WOULD NOT BE SUCH BULLSHIT ALLOWED TO FLOAT AROUND.

And once again, Walter you are falling for it.

If you don't agree with Roger Pielke, Jr. and you want to tell me why, fine, I'll listen. But don't transfer your disagreement with Roger Pielke, Jr. to me, because it makes you look like an idiot.

If you want to TEACH me, teach me, if you want to act like a raving idiot, then don't waste your time, you already lost your audience.

618 Reginald Perrin  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:20:08pm

re: #615 Spare O'Lake

re: #612 Walter L. Newton

He shoots...HE SCORES!

Too bad that he scored on his own goal.

619 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:21:20pm

re: #616 Alouette

Stormfront assholes are linking to my blog. Do they think this article means "The Holocaust was not that bad"? No, it means they are unhappy that some Jew babies survived.

They can go fuck themselves with their joysticks.

/gay reference intended.

620 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:21:25pm

re: #612 Walter L. Newton

Accuse me of what ever the fuck you want. Freetoken suggested Roger Pielke, Jr. blog, I read what was there, and the comments are his... not mine... yell at him... shit for brains.

Little testy?

You said, your words,

What it does tell us is that there have been some unhealthy goings on in the climate community.

Look Walter, I am not interested in the normal Walter two step, you know, the one where you get testy about making false claims and then start getting passive aggressive and end up whining that I talked mean to you or some such.

This is utter bullshit. The good article you linked first even explained why i is bullshit. Had you actually read it rather than attempting this concern troll garbage.

re: #585 Aceofwhat?

Only nothing was ever hidden yet again. NOTHING WAS HIDDEN! NOTHING WAS HIDDEN! THIS HAS BEEN WELL KNOWN IN THE LITERATURE< THE OPEN LITERATURE FOR A VERY LONG TIME!

NOTHING WAS HIDDEN EVER! YOU ARE ONLY CONTRIBUTING TO A FALSE SMEAR MEME.

621 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:21:54pm

re: #613 darthstar

As performed by Dolly Parton or Sally Field?

Hmmm, an interesting choice...
Dolly "Islands in the Stream" Parton or Sally "The Flying Nun" Fields...
Hmmm...I'm gonna have to get back to you.

622 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:22:20pm

re: #618 Reginald Perrin

Too bad that he scored on his own goal.

And I'll tell you the same fucking thing. Freetoken suggested the article at Roger Pielke, Jr. blog, I read it and brought over some paragraphs and asked if anyone had an opinion on them.

I didn't make the comments, I didn't formulate the propositions in the article and yelling at me in no ways makes the comments more true or less true.

But it does make some people look stupid.

623 bosforus  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:22:55pm

-Oh, you're fighting.
-Get back inside!

624 researchok  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:23:18pm

re: #616 Alouette

Stormfront assholes are linking to my blog. Do they think this article means "The Holocaust was not that bad"? No, it means they are unhappy that some Jew babies survived.

I saw your post earlier today. I wanted to ask if the mothers were pregnant before they were in the camps.

There really is no way of being delicate here, but given the circumstances and Nazi 'morality', I did wonder about that.

625 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:23:22pm

re: #617 Walter L. Newton

Stop it Walter. Peilke is a long time energy shill and denier.

As to teaching you, I already wrote several long posts on the science of this.

You are making the false implication that something was hidden or that some bad goings on were going on, and then Fox like, you take an utter pussy stance of "it's not my words, some people just say this."

Cut the shit.

626 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:23:24pm

re: #614 Walter L. Newton

Heh. I think what bothers Ludwig is that what the guy is saying about how this hasn't been out in the open is a complete lie.

Which is part of why he's not a respected scientist.

He's one of those rather pathetic people who are still trying to imply something dirty was up with the science at CRU, even after all the exoneration that has occurred.

627 Reginald Perrin  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:23:34pm

re: #622 Walter L. Newton

your concern is being duly noted.

628 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:23:55pm

re: #395 Walter L. Newton
I'm a fan of this type of conceptualizing also. But now it looks as if the networks have taken some shows in the opposite direction and cancelled some promising dramas way too early..... not even giving them a chance to get widely known, even though they are critically praised. It happened with Life, Journeyman, New Amsterdam, Pushing Daisies, Southland, The Unusuals .... I could go on and on....
Instead they leave crap like ' I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Outta Here' dangling, along with all the other unwatchable stuff.

629 donna quixote  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:24:08pm

Off hand I can't think of a single thing I like about Obama/ I can think of many blacks (sorry,I don't know the current PC term) who are far more deserving of being the first Black president and who would probably done a much better job. However, Charles does this site and he can think any way he wishes. I don't have to support his candidate or vote for him.
I didn't especially like either McCain or Palin and I certainly don't like the far right. I am furious that they have gained such control and wish I had not thrown away my enormous Choice button.
But neither do I like the enormous budget deficit, the fact that the secretary of the Treasury did not pay some income taxes, or the reputations of some of the czars. I am very suspicious of the "health care" bill, especially since some of the cuts will affect me.
I attended one tea party and never went back....especially since I later found that the women I rode with were all avid pro-lifers. The people at the gathering all behaved well. I didn't hear any foul language or insults to anyone. The people were younger but most people are younger than me.

630 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:24:17pm

re: #620 LudwigVanQuixote

Look Walter, I am not interested in the normal Walter two step, you know, the one where you get testy about making false claims and then start getting passive aggressive and end up whining that I talked mean to you or some such.

This is utter bullshit. The good article you linked first even explained why i is bullshit. Had you actually read it rather than attempting this concern troll garbage.

re: #585 Aceofwhat?

Only nothing was ever hidden yet again. NOTHING WAS HIDDEN! NOTHING WAS HIDDEN! THIS HAS BEEN WELL KNOWN IN THE LITERATURE< THE OPEN LITERATURE FOR A VERY LONG TIME!

NOTHING WAS HIDDEN EVER! YOU ARE ONLY CONTRIBUTING TO A FALSE SMEAR MEME.

One again, you didn't even read shit, did you? That quote "What it does tell us is that there have been some unhealthy goings on in the climate community" is from Roger A. Pielke, Jr. article, not my comment.

[Link: rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com...]

"The story of the missing heat does not indicate that climate science is a fraud or that we need not worry about a human influence on the climate system. What it does tell us is that there have been some unhealthy goings on in the climate community and we should all bask in the new found sunshine."

Beat it.

631 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:25:04pm

re: #626 Obdicut

Heh. I think what bothers Ludwig is that what the guy is saying about how this hasn't been out in the open is a complete lie.

Which is part of why he's not a respected scientist.

He's one of those rather pathetic people who are still trying to imply something dirty was up with the science at CRU, even after all the exoneration that has occurred.

Thank you.

632 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:25:13pm

re: #618 Reginald Perrin

Too bad that he scored on his own goal.

I don't think he did that. Ludwig is usually right on the science, but he did barge in a bit this time. Walter was making a case with a reasonable link. He was not 'concern trolling'.

633 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:25:20pm

Some information about the Deepwater Horizon, and some photos if anyone is interested. The last 3 I found particularly interesting, they show the rig tilting and finally disappearing beneath the water.

634 CuriousLurker  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:25:28pm

re: #616 Alouette

Stormfront assholes are linking to my blog. Do they think this article means "The Holocaust was not that bad"? No, it means they are unhappy that some Jew babies survived.

So why don't you ban any links coming from their site? Better yet, have them redirected to the ADL or whatever.

635 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:26:09pm

re: #630 Walter L. Newton


And that is a total lie that you are taking pleasure in repeating twice even.

You are such an asshole.

636 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:26:25pm

re: #624 researchok

I saw your post earlier today. I wanted to ask if the mothers were pregnant before they were in the camps.

There really is no way of being delicate here, but given the circumstances and Nazi 'morality', I did wonder about that.


These women were probably in the early stages of pregnancy when they arrived at the camp. At least that is what I assume.

637 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:26:31pm

re: #633 reine.de.tout

Some information about the Deepwater Horizon, and some photos if anyone is interested. The last 3 I found particularly interesting, they show the rig tilting and finally disappearing beneath the water.

I got a "Welcome to Google docs". Is that where it is?

638 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:26:52pm

re: #634 CuriousLurker

So why don't you ban any links coming from their site? Better yet, have them redirected to the ADL or whatever.

How do you do that in Typepad?

639 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:26:55pm

re: #632 Dark_Falcon

I don't think he did that. Ludwig is usually right on the science, but he did barge in a bit this time. Walter was making a case with a reasonable link. He was not 'concern trolling'.

Yes, he was. And is. Calling Pielke a respected scientist is eye-rollingly silly.

640 CuriousLurker  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:27:16pm

re: #633 reine.de.tout

Some information about the Deepwater Horizon, and some photos if anyone is interested. The last 3 I found particularly interesting, they show the rig tilting and finally disappearing beneath the water.

Hi, reine! :-) Your link isn't working for me. I got the same thing Floral Giraffe did.

641 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:28:02pm

re: #635 LudwigVanQuixote

And that is a total lie that you are taking pleasure in repeating twice even.

You are such an asshole.

Shit for brains.

642 researchok  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:28:36pm

re: #636 Alouette

These women were probably in the early stages of pregnancy when they arrived at the camp. At least that is what I assume.

Thanks for that.

I really, really don't want to think otherwise.

643 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:28:41pm

re: #639 Obdicut

Yes, he was. And is. Calling Pielke a respected scientist is eye-rollingly silly.

Your joking?

644 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:28:42pm

DF how the fuck could you upding 614? Peilke is openly lying and Walter is repeating it. Walter is then trying to distract from the fact that it is a total lie in the first place by making this about me.

What is wrong with you?

645 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:28:45pm

re: #637 Floral Giraffe

I got a "Welcome to Google docs". Is that where it is?

Yes, It should bring you right to the document itself. Did you get the document? I worked OK when I previewed.

646 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:28:59pm

pimf: you're

647 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:29:13pm

re: #635 LudwigVanQuixote

And that is a total lie that you are taking pleasure in repeating twice even.

You are such an asshole.

re: #641 Walter L. Newton

Shit for brains.

Get a room, boys.

648 Querent  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:29:18pm

re: #11 Dreggas

"An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."

How far can you open your mind before your brain falls out?

(for some of these pundits, apparently, not very!)

649 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:29:24pm

re: #640 CuriousLurker

Hi, reine! :-) Your link isn't working for me. I got the same thing Floral Giraffe did.

Oh, argh!

It's supposed to be a link that can be shared.

Let me find a different way to post it.
argh.

650 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:29:35pm

re: #639 Obdicut

Yes, he was. And is. Calling Pielke a respected scientist is eye-rollingly silly.

I was asking if he was a respected scientist. I even asked up thread if we should not link to him. DIdn't I? Do you even know what the fuck you are talking about. I would suggest you go up thread and check my comments.

I never even heard of the guy until Freetoken mentioned the link and his blog entry.

651 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:30:04pm

re: #645 reine.de.tout

It wanted me to sign in, so I didn't. I'll go try again!

652 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:30:10pm

re: #647 darthstar

Get a room, boys.

TURD! :)

653 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:30:41pm

re: #643 Bagua

No, I'm not, Bagua. Peilke is openly lying in this piece, and openly lies often.

However, given that Charles has repeatedly called you out for your own climate change denial, I'm unsurprised to find you supporting him.

Can you explain why Peilke is saying this topic has been hidden away when it is one of the most prominent topics papers are written about in the field of climate change?

654 CuriousLurker  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:31:01pm

re: #638 Alouette

How do you do that in Typepad?

You have to do it with an .htaccess file on the server. You can create one manually or you can do it via your web hosting provider's control panel. Do you have someone who manages your site for you?

655 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:31:08pm

re: #650 Walter L. Newton

That's nice, Walter.

656 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:31:19pm

re: #650 Walter L. Newton

You mean this man?

Roger Pielke, Jr.

I am a professor of environmental studies at the Center for Science and Technology Policy Research at the University of Colorado at Boulder. I also have an appointment as a Senior Visiting Fellow at the Consortium for Science, Policy and Outcomes at Arizona State University and am a Senior Fellow of The Breakthrough Institute, a progressive think tank.

657 freetoken  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:31:21pm

re: #602 Walter L. Newton

I'm gonna dig into Roger Pielke, Jr. more... probably find a link to some interest or support by the oil or coal companies, or something like that.

You'll find whatever you find. Oh, and I had just suggested to LVQ to check out the spin-offs, hardly a ringing endorsement.

658 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:32:18pm

re: #632 Dark_Falcon

I don't think he did that. Ludwig is usually right on the science, but he did barge in a bit this time. Walter was making a case with a reasonable link. He was not 'concern trolling'.

Please listen carefully. Peilke is a hack. Peilke told an open lie repeatedly about this. The energy budget has been a topic of research for decades and the current issue with the satellite data has been an open discussion for about a decade. Exactly what the issue actually is was discussed in several posts of mine in terms of the science and an article which ironically Walter gave the first link to.

It was all and always out in the open.

Walter is simply being a concern troll. He likes to do that for some silly reason.

You are helping him by being so spineless.

659 jaunte  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:32:46pm

Some Pielke info:

Roger Pielke Jr. is a professor in the Environmental Studies Program at the University of Colorado at Boulder. [1] He is also a Fellow of the Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences and a Senior Fellow at The Breakthrough Institute.[2] Dr. Pielke is a prolific and controversial writer; his most recent book setting forth his views is called "The Honest Broker: Making Sense of Science in Policy and Politics," which was published by Cambridge University Press in 2007. His doctorate is in political science.[3]

[Link: www.sourcewatch.org...]

660 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:34:42pm

re: #645 reine.de.tout

Nope, it doesn't like my email.
Thanks for trying!

661 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:34:50pm

re: #656 Bagua

You realize he's not even a scientist, right?

His degree is in political science.

662 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:34:54pm

re: #644 LudwigVanQuixote

DF how the fuck could you upding 614? Peilke is openly lying and Walter is repeating it. Walter is then trying to distract from the fact that it is a total lie in the first place by making this about me.

What is wrong with you?

I have no idea who Peilke is. I'll look into it. I updinged Walter because I felt he was getting pile-on.

663 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:34:56pm

re: #651 Floral Giraffe

It wanted me to sign in, so I didn't. I'll go try again!

yeah, apparently that's it.
I need to figure out how to make a link for it that everyone who's interested can see.

664 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:35:06pm

re: #644 LudwigVanQuixote
Respect the autonomy of Da Ding, and let them fall where they may.
(You know not how the ding may troll... it may troll for thee).//

665 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:35:16pm

re: #657 freetoken

You'll find whatever you find. Oh, and I had just suggested to LVQ to check out the spin-offs, hardly a ringing endorsement.

I know all about Roger Pielke.

What entertains me is that Walter is going to go and research the reputation of this hack rather than look at the science itself. Then he is going to come back with yet more half baked crap and get cranky when called on it.

666 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:35:21pm

re: #659 jaunte

Some Pielke info:

[Link: www.sourcewatch.org...]

Pielke was invited to write for Regulation [10], a magazine published by the Cato Institute, a libertarian think-tank [11]. Pielke has also published articles in Atlantic Monthly, The New Republic, Washington Post, and Los Angeles Times [12]. He also appeared in a Fox News special Global Warming: The Debate Continues, that featured several prominent global warming skeptics and industry consultants [13]. He has also appeared multiple times on CNN, The Weather Channel, and in many other media outlets [14]. For his own part, Pielke characterizes his political views as "consonant with those of the Blue Dog Democrats who argue that the stale extreme left vs. right approach requires a breath of fresh air" [15]. Pielke's views are cited by conservatives [16] [17] [18] and he has complained that he has been pilloried by a "liberal slime machine."[19]

In January, 2007 when the Government Oversight and Reform Committee of the U.S. Congress, led by Representative Henry Waxman (D-CA), initiated hearings on political interference into the work of government scientists by the Bush Administration, Pielke testified that politics and science have a long history of being intermixed at the highest levels of government. In his written testimony Pielke described the Bush Administration's behavior as "ham-handed," "overbearing," and indicative of "hyper-controlling strategies for the management of information" [20]. Pielke also criticized a memo prepared for the hearing by Rep. Waxman's staff as reflecting the same dynamics underlying the behavior of the Bush Administration [21].

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

667 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:35:44pm

re: #632 Dark_Falcon

I don't think he did that. Ludwig is usually right on the science, but he did barge in a bit this time. Walter was making a case with a reasonable link. He was not 'concern trolling'.

Calling someone a "concern troll" is very lame indeed...right up there with "butthurt".
To my understanding, it is an accusation of outright dishonesty and deception, coupled with an appeal for the pack to summarily dismiss the position being put forward.
Reprehensible.

668 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:36:27pm

hmmmm, need to start thinking about dinner...

669 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:36:35pm

re: #663 reine.de.tout

yeah, apparently that's it.
I need to figure out how to make a link for it that everyone who's interested can see.

I'm interested. Keep working.

670 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:36:56pm

re: #667 Spare O'Lake

Calling someone a "concern troll" is very lame indeed...right up there with "butthurt".
To my understanding, it is an accusation of outright dishonesty and deception, coupled with an appeal for the pack to summarily dismiss the position being put forward.
Reprehensible.

If someone is not 100 percent Ludwig certified, then that person or scientist or poor unintended bystander is an asshole in his book.

It's get old.

671 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:37:11pm

re: #662 Dark_Falcon

I have no idea who Peilke is. I'll look into it. I updinged Walter because I felt he was getting pile-on.

Walter deserves the pile on for refusing to look at the science as usual repeating an utter lie about AGW researchers as usual and repeating his BS concern troll schtick as usual.

672 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:37:21pm

re: #662 Dark_Falcon

Pielke is not a scientist. He's a policy dude. He's been wrong a lot. He writes a lot of books and makes a lot of money by being 'controversial', which generally involves writing semi-plausible denialist stuff.

In this article, he's flat out lying in a really blatant and shameless manner.

Yay.

673 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:37:28pm

re: #616 Alouette

Stormfront assholes are linking to my blog. Do they think this article means "The Holocaust was not that bad"? No, it means they are unhappy that some Jew babies survived.

Evil, evil bastards.

674 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:37:41pm

re: #633 reine.de.tout

Some information about the Deepwater Horizon, and some photos if anyone is interested. The last 3 I found particularly interesting, they show the rig tilting and finally disappearing beneath the water.

This link is supposed to work without having to sign in.

675 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:37:50pm

re: #653 Obdicut

No, I'm not, Bagua. Peilke is openly lying in this piece, and openly lies often.

However, given that Charles has repeatedly called you out for your own climate change denial, I'm unsurprised to find you supporting him.

Can you explain why Peilke is saying this topic has been hidden away when it is one of the most prominent topics papers are written about in the field of climate change?

What a fool you are, Professor Peilke Jr. is not a "denier" nor a sceptic, he contributed to the IPCC AR4. If you have a problem with something he said, debate it with him, not I.

676 researchok  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:38:09pm

This blog has a whole lot of entertainment value.

I've got a cheese danish, coffee and I'm enjoying the show.

677 bratwurst  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:38:19pm

re: #667 Spare O'Lake

Calling someone a "concern troll" is very lame indeed

Speaking of which, how is your heartfelt campaign to equate the term "teabonics" with racism going anyway?

678 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:38:29pm

I'm naming a new unit of time.

It's .001 Nanoseconds, which shall henceforth be known as a "slurp"

A slurp is how long it takes a houseful of middle-school aged boys to eat a pan of brownies.


How is everyone doing today?

679 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:38:29pm

re: #675 Bagua

What a fool you are, Professor Peilke Jr. is not a "denier" nor a sceptic, he contributed to the IPCC AR4. If you have a problem with something he said, debate it with him, not I.

Obidcut can't, Ludwig can't, that's why they both have to pile on someone else.

680 CuriousLurker  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:38:38pm

re: #674 reine.de.tout

This link is supposed to work without having to sign in.

Yay, it works!

681 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:39:05pm

re: #675 Bagua

He's not a scientist, Bagua.

You asked if I was serious in saying he's not a respected scientist. I am serious, since he's not even a scientist. I don't consider 'political science' to be a science, and certainly not in the same way climate science is.

682 researchok  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:39:44pm

re: #678 EmmmieG

I'm naming a new unit of time.

It's .001 Nanoseconds, which shall henceforth be known as a "slurp"

A slurp is how long it takes a houseful of middle-school aged boys to eat a pan of brownies.

How is everyone doing today?

I thought that was a unit of 'inhale'.

683 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:39:45pm

re: #670 Walter L. Newton

If someone is not 100 percent Ludwig certified, then that person or scientist or poor unintended bystander is an asshole in his book.

It's get old.

It is not about that. This is why you are such an asshole.

The fact is that no one ever hid the heat balance at all. There are dozens of papers on it. To say otherwise is to completely lie. To then take that lie to infer that something unsavory was going on is an utter slander.

You are an asshole for perpetuating the slander. You are an asshole for trying to whine about me when being called on pushing your filth.

684 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:39:57pm

re: #674 reine.de.tout

This link is supposed to work without having to sign in.

It worked. Very dramatic. So what's the word on oil coming ashore? Hopefully not?

685 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:41:19pm

re: #676 researchok
True dat.

686 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:41:31pm

re: #664 tradewind

Respect the autonomy of Da Ding, and let them fall where they may.
(You know not how the ding may troll... it may troll for thee).//

Rotating title nominee!

687 Truth Stick  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:41:31pm

re: #678 EmmmieG

I'm naming a new unit of time.

It's .001 Nanoseconds, which shall henceforth be known as a "slurp"

A slurp is how long it takes a houseful of middle-school aged boys to eat a pan of brownies.

How is everyone doing today?

hehehe.....do we still have a LGF dictionary around here? I looked in the side bar at the top of the page, but couldn't find it there. I had forgot about it, until I saw some one use Asshat. Here and one other forum was the only place I would see that.

688 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:41:33pm

re: #679 Walter L. Newton

Obidcut can't, Ludwig can't, that's why they both have to pile on someone else.

Good grief, the guy is a Professor a the University of Colorado.

689 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:41:38pm

re: #679 Walter L. Newton

Obidcut can't, Ludwig can't, that's why they both have to pile on someone else.

What? The claim is that the heat budget has been a known and open discussion in the community for some time. Peilke lied and said it was somehow hidden. That is an open lie. All of those papers that wer published discussing the issue put the end of any debate you moron.

690 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:42:04pm

re: #676 researchok

This blog has a whole lot of entertainment value.

I've got a cheese danish, coffee and I'm enjoying the show.

I enjoy reading the sparring of different personalities.

691 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:42:22pm

re: #674 reine.de.tout

This link is supposed to work without having to sign in.

And it does! Thank you Reine!

692 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:42:46pm

re: #679 Walter L. Newton

Can you explain why you called him a respected scientist several times?

Were you under the impression he was a climatologist rather than someone who studies policy?

693 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:43:30pm

re: #688 Bagua

Good grief, the guy is a Professor a the University of Colorado.

Who, Ward Churchill?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

694 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:43:38pm

re: #681 Obdicut

He's not a scientist, Bagua.

You asked if I was serious in saying he's not a respected scientist. I am serious, since he's not even a scientist. I don't consider 'political science' to be a science, and certainly not in the same way climate science is.

Here are some of his awards:

Eduard Brueckner Prize (2006), NRC Board on Ocean Sciences Roger Revelle Commemorative Lecturer (2006), Sigma Xi Distinguished Lectureship Award (2000)

Prior to his positions at CU-Boulder, from 1993 to 2001 he was a staff scientist [2] in the Environmental and Societal Impacts Group of the National Center for Atmospheric Research

You better call up University of Colorado and tell them your suspicions.

695 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:44:16pm

re: #677 bratwurst

Speaking of which, how is your heartfelt campaign to equate the term "teabonics" with racism going anyway?

Hmmm, good memory salami-breath. It was an honest observation, and judging by its subsequent absence I gather it may even have been favourably received.

696 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:44:41pm

re: #694 Bagua

My suspicions about what, Bagua?

697 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:45:08pm

re: #689 LudwigVanQuixote

What? The claim is that the heat budget has been a known and open discussion in the community for some time. Peilke lied and said it was somehow hidden. That is an open lie. All of those papers that wer published discussing the issue put the end of any debate you moron.

Like I said up thread... you didn't even read the blog entry I was discussing... otherwise you would know, in the entry I was referencing, he never even uses the word "hidden"... I'll tell you what, you go read the blog entry FIRST, and then come back and act like a bully.

But here is what he DOES say about the "accumulated heat"...

First, there was ample indication of issues associated with the divergence of model projections and accumulated heat years ago, but for whatever reasons, it was not openly discussed, with the exception of the 2008 NPR story (perhaps I've missed others).

Second, it took the released CRU emails to open up a public scientific dialogue on this subject, which suggests that there are some issues with either model projections or observations. Judging from the Pielke-Trenberth-Willis exchange, I'd put my money on problems with the models.

Third, none of this should alter how we think about the policy issues, as uncertainties have always been with us and always will. But getting uncertainties out in the open is a new thing for the public face of climate science and undoubtedly some will likely try to reassert the old ways of suppressing uncertainties.

[Link: rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com...]

Now... go read the blog entry.

698 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:45:28pm

re: #688 Bagua

Good grief, the guy is a Professor a the University of Colorado.

And yet he is caught in an open and clumsy lie.

Trying to claim that this was somehow hidden when there are dozens of papers on it is a lie.

699 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:45:51pm

re: #693 Obdicut

Who, Ward Churchill?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

You are comparing Professor Pielke Jr. with Ward Churchill?

Why are you slandering a respected man this way?

700 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:46:14pm

re: #683 LudwigVanQuixote

It is not about that. This is why you are such an asshole.

The fact is that no one ever hid the heat balance at all. There are dozens of papers on it. To say otherwise is to completely lie. To then take that lie to infer that something unsavory was going on is an utter slander.

You are an asshole for perpetuating the slander. You are an asshole for trying to whine about me when being called on pushing your filth.

You're not really a teacher, are you?

701 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:47:17pm

re: #700 Spare O'Lake

You're not really a teacher, are you?

l a m e

702 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:47:37pm

re: #699 Bagua

You are comparing Professor Pielke Jr. with Ward Churchill?

Why are you slandering a respected man this way?

If you clutch those pearls any harder they're going to implode.

Ward Churchill was also a professor at the same university. The status of a person as a university professor does not grant them instant credibility.

Pielke is not a climatologist, and he is lying in this article.

Are you saying that it isn't a lie to say that the 'missing heat' has been a hidden topic in climatology?

703 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:47:39pm

re: #674 reine.de.tout

This link is supposed to work without having to sign in.

Thank you very much!
I love this information, and the pictures of hell are amazing.
I saw a rig like that get towed south off the Ca. coast years ago.
We read what it was in the paper the next day. it was HUGE!
I also really enjoyed Red Adair's biography.
Which is $0.88 on Amazon!

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

704 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:47:52pm

re: #694 Bagua

Or you could stick to the facts and wonder why such a "respectable" guy would make such wild claims that are so easily disproven.

Either this was an open and well documented issue (and it is) or it was not. He claims it was not and goes on to claim some nefarious goings on in the climate community. So he makes a slander based on a lie.

Respectable scientists don't so that.

705 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:47:56pm

re: #692 Obdicut

Can you explain why you called him a respected scientist several times?

Were you under the impression he was a climatologist rather than someone who studies policy?

You are correct, I said he is a respected scientist, and he is a respected professor and a respected Fellow and a respected visiting scholar...

"Prior to his positions at CU-Boulder, from 1993 to 2001 he was a staff scientist [2] in the Environmental and Societal Impacts Group of the National Center for Atmospheric "Research."

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Next question?

706 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:48:22pm

re: #696 Obdicut

My suspicions about what, Bagua?

You're slandering a respected Professor because of some quote taken out of context. Joe McCarthy would be proud of your fervor.

707 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:48:39pm

re: #697 Walter L. Newton

Why do you keep repeating the lies from the blog entry, Walter?

What do you feel it adds to the conversation?

708 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:49:34pm

re: #704 LudwigVanQuixote

Or you could stick to the facts and wonder why such a "respectable" guy would make such wild claims that are so easily disproven.

Either this was an open and well documented issue (and it is) or it was not. He claims it was not and goes on to claim some nefarious goings on in the climate community. So he makes a slander based on a lie.

Respectable scientists don't so that.

Read the blog article... he is not claiming ANY heat was hidden "First, there was ample indication of issues associated with the divergence of model projections and accumulated heat years ago, but for whatever reasons, it was not openly discussed, with the exception of the 2008 NPR story (perhaps I've missed others)."

[Link: rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com...]

709 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:49:35pm

re: #675 Bagua

What a fool you are, Professor Peilke Jr. is not a "denier" nor a sceptic, he contributed to the IPCC AR4. If you have a problem with something he said, debate it with him, not I.

Calling someone a fool is as bad as calling them a concern troll.

710 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:49:47pm

re: #700 Spare O'Lake

You're not really a teacher, are you?

Spare listen to me please. You really feel the need to turn into an idiot when you are in a dander so here are some factual statements.

1. The heat budget is a known problem that people have written about for a very long time. To claim it was hidden is simply a lie.

2. There really are neo-nazi connections to the Az bill whether you see it or not.

711 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:49:56pm

re: #684 Stanley Sea

It worked. Very dramatic. So what's the word on oil coming ashore? Hopefully not?

Unknown right now. The leakage is not huge (way less than Exxon Valdez), and a lot depends on the weather, and what sort of progress they make in getting the leakage closed.

712 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:50:23pm

re: #704 LudwigVanQuixote

Or you could stick to the facts and wonder why such a "respectable" guy would make such wild claims that are so easily disproven.

Either this was an open and well documented issue (and it is) or it was not. He claims it was not and goes on to claim some nefarious goings on in the climate community. So he makes a slander based on a lie.

Respectable scientists don't so that.

Look Ludwig, I'm not familiar with everything the man has written and I'm not weighing in on that one comment, but to slander a Professor like this is unconscionable.

713 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:50:35pm

re: #706 Bagua

Oh wow, going straight to McCarthy without an intermediate step? Total party foul, dude.

Pielke has lied in this article that we're discussing. If there was nothing else to know about the man but this article, what could we conclude? That he lies.

That he is also a professor seems to have little relevance to whether what he says is true. It is not true.

714 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:50:53pm

re: #706 Bagua

You're slandering a respected Professor because of some quote taken out of context. Joe McCarthy would be proud of your fervor.

He's OK but he tends to lose it. I once had a dog like that...for about 3 days.

715 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:50:59pm

re: #706 Bagua

You're slandering a respected Professor because of some quote taken out of context. Joe McCarthy would be proud of your fervor.

He is correctly pointing out that this guy you are defending made a clumsy and stupid lie.

716 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:51:24pm

re: #707 Obdicut

Why do you keep repeating the lies from the blog entry, Walter? What do you feel it adds to the conversation?

They are lies because you and Ludwig say so... big fucking deal, holds no note with me... you can't even figure out that Roger A. Pielke, Jr. is a scientist.

717 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:51:38pm

re: #711 reine.de.tout

Unknown right now. The leakage is not huge (way less than Exxon Valdez), and a lot depends on the weather, and what sort of progress they make in getting the leakage closed.

As soon as I typed that, I was like..well it probably matters even in open sea, but not as visual as on the beach.

OK science foks - change the subject - how bad is a spill in open ocean compared to on shore?

(I'm trying...)

718 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:51:55pm

re: #710 LudwigVanQuixote

Spare listen to me please. You really feel the need to turn into an idiot when you are in a dander so here are some factual statements.

1. The heat budget is a known problem that people have written about for a very long time. To claim it was hidden is simply a lie.

2. There really are neo-nazi connections to the Az bill whether you see it or not.

WHERE DOES Roger A. Pielke, Jr. CLAIM THE HEAT WAS HIDDEN?

719 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:52:04pm

re: #695 Spare O'Lake
Looks as if the P/C heat is going to refocus from the tea party people to the AZ stuff. Bet that cameras will be unable to find any rock-throwers among those protesters, though.... only peaceful, well-organized, respectful crowds.

720 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:52:16pm

re: #684 Stanley Sea

re: #691 Floral Giraffe

Figured some of us needed a distraction from the ongoing LGF AGW war.

721 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:52:29pm

re: #712 Bagua

Look Ludwig, I'm not familiar with everything the man has written and I'm not weighing in on that one comment, but to slander a Professor like this is unconscionable.

That professor is slandering the entire community based on an easily disproved lie. That is what is unconscionable.

This was an open issue for years and moreover, it is not, if you look at the science anything that helps the deniers, because it only makes the situation worse.

Look above to 409 for why in terms of energy budgets.

722 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:52:38pm

re: #712 Bagua

Can you actually state in what way I'm 'slandering' him, please?

Slander is a crime. Ironically enough, one of the ways to commit slander is to accuse another of slander improperly. Isn't that neat?

723 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:52:56pm

re: #713 Obdicut

Oh wow, going straight to McCarthy without an intermediate step? Total party foul, dude.

Pielke has lied in this article that we're discussing. If there was nothing else to know about the man but this article, what could we conclude? That he lies.

That he is also a professor seems to have little relevance to whether what he says is true. It is not true.

No foul Obdicut, look in the mirror. To judge a man of his academic qualifications based upon one out of context quote is bizarre and reactionary. If you want to call the Professor a liar, why not tell him on his blog?

724 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:53:37pm

re: #718 Walter L. Newton

WHERE DOES Roger A. Pielke, Jr. CLAIM THE HEAT WAS HIDDEN?

WHAT ABOUT YOUR 475?

God now you are lying. Or were all those quotes you posted not from Peilke?

725 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:53:59pm

re: #716 Walter L. Newton

Roger A. Pielke, Jr.

Must we call Roger A. Pielke, Jr. "Roger A. Pielke, Jr." every time we refer to Roger A. Pielke, Jr. ? That's almost as big a mouthful as Rufus Xavier Sasparilla.

726 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:54:10pm

re: #722 Obdicut

Can you actually state in what way I'm 'slandering' him, please?

Slander is a crime. Ironically enough, one of the ways to commit slander is to accuse another of slander improperly. Isn't that neat?

I'm not interested in academic witch hunts, I've registered my protest.

727 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:54:35pm

re: #716 Walter L. Newton

They are lies because you and Ludwig say so... big fucking deal, holds no note with me... you can't even figure out that Roger A. Pielke, Jr. is a scientist.

They are lies because if you look at the literature for 1 second you will find that this has been openly discussed for sometime you fucking moron.

728 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:55:05pm

re: #725 darthstar
True, but then this whole thread is now getting a bad RAP.//

729 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:55:52pm

re: #726 Bagua

I'm not interested in academic witch hunts, I've registered my protest.

And you are not being fair or truthful. Which part of this is something that was never hidden and in the open literature for some time did you miss. For him to say otherwise is a lie.

It is an open and complete lie.

Scientists who make such lies are not the subjects of witch hunts. They are rightly yelled at.

730 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:56:13pm

re: #726 Bagua

So you accuse me of a crime-- slander-- and then do not have the courage to back up that accusation, even to the extent of failing to identify what I've supposedly done.

That is very poor behavior on your part.

731 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:56:30pm

re: #725 darthstar

Must we call Roger A. Pielke, Jr. "Roger A. Pielke, Jr." every time we refer to Roger A. Pielke, Jr. ? That's almost as big a mouthful as Rufus Xavier Sasparilla.


[Video]

Yes we must because his father Roger A. Pielke, Sr. (born October 22, 1946) is a meteorologist, and I prefer to keep the record straight.

732 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:56:59pm

re: #654 CuriousLurker

You have to do it with an .htaccess file on the server. You can create one manually or you can do it via your web hosting provider's control panel. Do you have someone who manages your site for you?

Vicious Babushka is hosted on Typepad. I can upload new files but I don't want to mess around editing the blog files.

733 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:57:00pm

re: #721 LudwigVanQuixote

That professor is slandering the entire community based on an easily disproved lie. That is what is unconscionable.

This was an open issue for years and moreover, it is not, if you look at the science anything that helps the deniers, because it only makes the situation worse.

Look above to 409 for why in terms of energy budgets.

What is the full context of what he said? I'm not saying he is correct is this, or for that matter every statement he makes, but he shouldn't be vilified in this way.

734 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:57:18pm

re: #727 LudwigVanQuixote

They are lies because if you look at the literature for 1 second you will find that this has been openly discussed for sometime you fucking moron.

First, there was ample indication of issues associated with the divergence of model projections and accumulated heat years ago, but for whatever reasons, it was not openly discussed, with the exception of the 2008 NPR story (perhaps I've missed others).

Read what he said...

735 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:58:55pm

re: #721 LudwigVanQuixote

That professor is slandering the entire community based on an easily disproved lie. That is what is unconscionable.

This was an open issue for years and moreover, it is not, if you look at the science anything that helps the deniers, because it only makes the situation worse.

Look above to 409 for why in terms of energy budgets.

You know what helps the deniers... your big foul mouth.

736 zora  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 3:59:41pm

re: #717 Stanley Sea

As soon as I typed that, I was like..well it probably matters even in open sea, but not as visual as on the beach.

OK science foks - change the subject - how bad is a spill in open ocean compared to on shore?

(I'm trying...)

i was wondering the same thing. about the spill that is.

737 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:00:20pm

This thread has turned into a flame war. I'm going to wait for a later one after things have settled down.

738 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:00:42pm

re: #730 Obdicut

So you accuse me of a crime-- slander-- and then do not have the courage to back up that accusation, even to the extent of failing to identify what I've supposedly done.

That is very poor behavior on your part.

All your talk about "poor behaviour" is pretty hypocritical after you've just slimed an respected professor.

As far as "back up", look back up the thread at your own ugly comments, slandering a respected academic who is not even a sceptic. This is disgusting and I'd rather drop the subject.

739 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:01:16pm

re: #690 prairiefire

Nice avatar. Is that Mr. Smith of Lost In Space?

740 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:01:32pm

re: #736 zora

i was wondering the same thing. about the spill that is.

Hello?!! Please get off your sniping at each other (pro-AGW vs. anti-AGW) and help us out here! As a favor...

741 researchok  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:01:35pm

I'm enjoying the show.

Fireworks before the 4th!

742 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:01:51pm

re: #654 CuriousLurker

You have to do it with an .htaccess file on the server. You can create one manually or you can do it via your web hosting provider's control panel. Do you have someone who manages your site for you?

Typepad does not support 301 redirects. Even if they did, the 301 redirects everyone who comes to the page. How do you selectively redirect based on HTTP_REFERRER?

743 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:02:06pm

re: #737 Dark_Falcon

This thread has turned into a flame war. I'm going to wait for a later one after things have settled down.

Or we could just change the subject.
Catherine Deneuve always makes me feel better.

744 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:02:25pm

re: #550 Spare O'Lake

The last paragraph of the article:

I don't think the authors concluded that that heat is in the ocean. They speculated that was a possible explanation. So when you say "we conclude" to whom other than yourself do you refer.

You really are an impressive idiot. "We" is most of the community. If you were to read that article for content and understanding rather than attempting to cherry pick, you would find that it talks about deep water predominantly.

745 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:03:02pm

re: #741 researchok

I'm enjoying the show.

Fireworks before the 4th!

So am I.

746 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:03:32pm

re: #729 LudwigVanQuixote

And you are not being fair or truthful. Which part of this is something that was never hidden and in the open literature for some time did you miss. For him to say otherwise is a lie.

It is an open and complete lie.

Scientists who make such lies are not the subjects of witch hunts. They are rightly yelled at.

Well, I suppose they won't invite him to contribute to the IPCC again?

747 Reginald Perrin  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:03:32pm

re: #737 Dark_Falcon

This thread has turned into a flame war. I'm going to wait for a later one after things have settled down.


Wise decision.
Discretion is the better part of valor

748 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:03:41pm

re: #738 Bagua

Again: Simply point out what you feel I did that merited the word 'slander', which is a crime that you're accusing me of.

If you can't actually back up the charge of slander, you should withdraw it. Apologies would be cool, too, but I don't expect that much out of you.

749 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:03:55pm

re: #745 Walter L. Newton

So am I.

You are a participant! hello!

750 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:04:11pm

re: #745 Walter L. Newton

So am I.

Well, it's not exactly a state secret that you enjoy getting into flame wars, Walter...I could see you grinning 100 comments ago.

751 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:04:20pm

re: #717 Stanley Sea

As soon as I typed that, I was like..well it probably matters even in open sea, but not as visual as on the beach.

OK science foks - change the subject - how bad is a spill in open ocean compared to on shore?

(I'm trying...)

hehehe.
My understanding:
It's not toxic in that it doesn't mix with water and create polluted water.

It sits on top of the water, and some of it will evaporate.

Birds who get oil on them cannot fly or sit on the water and will probably die because they can't get it off of themselves. Sea life underneath the oil is safe; it's a danger if they get it on them or swallow it.

Once it reaches land, it becomes a big sticky ugly mess, possibly harmful to wildlife in that area, but it can be cleaned up.

752 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:04:45pm

re: #750 darthstar

Well, it's not exactly a state secret that you enjoy getting into flame wars, Walter...I could see you grinning 100 comments ago.

I was grinning when I called you a turd... :)

753 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:05:30pm

re: #752 Walter L. Newton

I was grinning when I called you a turd... :)

Beats being Lost.

754 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:05:30pm

re: #751 reine.de.tout

hehehe.
My understanding:
It's not toxic in that it doesn't mix with water and create polluted water.

It sits on top of the water, and some of it will evaporate.

Birds who get oil on them cannot fly or sit on the water and will probably die because they can't get it off of themselves. Sea life underneath the oil is safe; it's a danger if they get it on them or swallow it.

Once it reaches land, it becomes a big sticky ugly mess, possibly harmful to wildlife in that area, but it can be cleaned up.

And Reine comes through!

Thanks!

755 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:06:17pm

re: #754 Stanley Sea

And Reine comes through!

Thanks!

I may be wrong on some of it. Hoping that the AGW war can be deflected by someone who will correct me.
LOL.

756 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:06:23pm

Um, I taught a bunch of 13 year olds today how to calculate the period of a pendulum?

(I don't expect they will remember. I am only hoping for them to remember that the bob mass doesn't matter, and the angle doesn't matter, only the length of the string matters.)

757 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:06:36pm

re: #720 reine.de.tout

re: #691 Floral Giraffe

Figured some of us needed a distraction from the ongoing LGF AGW war.

I'll just quote you & try again!
*crosses fingers*

758 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:06:37pm

re: #753 darthstar

That was a reference to the show, and not you, Walter...for the record. And I updinged you for calling me a turd. Nobody had ever called me a turd before (yadda, yadda, yadda)...

759 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:07:14pm

re: #752 Walter L. Newton

Why do you enjoy baiting Ludwig and causing flamewars, Walter? Not to mention repeatedly posting untrue statements from Pielke's blog?

Is there any other way you can satisfy whatever urge drives you to do this? It's not actually pleasant for a lot of people.

760 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:07:27pm

re: #710 LudwigVanQuixote

Spare listen to me please. You really feel the need to turn into an idiot when you are in a dander so here are some factual statements.

1. The heat budget is a known problem that people have written about for a very long time. To claim it was hidden is simply a lie.

2. There really are neo-nazi connections to the Az bill whether you see it or not.

No, you listen to me.
1. I read about the missing heat today for the first time, and I read the Trenberth-Pasullo article - not the Pielke take. To me the main point was that half the heat cannot be conclusively accounted for, although there seems to be good reason to speculate that it is in the ocean. Whether it was hidden or not is not important to me at all.

2. The alleged neo-nazi connections to the AZ bill seem to me to be entirely speculative, and Jews do not run around calling people Hitler without absolute proof.

I know this is the internet and people often say whatever pops into their head and can treat others like shit if they want. But I don't like it. And I especially don't like it when gangs of yapping ankle-biters go into a frenzy around here trying to intimidate others.

761 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:07:44pm

re: #748 Obdicut

Again: Simply point out what you feel I did that merited the word 'slander', which is a crime that you're accusing me of.

If you can't actually back up the charge of slander, you should withdraw it. Apologies would be cool, too, but I don't expect that much out of you.

You are doing your repetitive denial again, Obdicut. You called a respected Professor a liar and said he was not a real scientist, not a climatologist and compared him to Ward Churchill. It's academic McCarthyism, clearly.

762 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:07:48pm
it becomes a big sticky ugly mess, possibly harmful to wildlife in that area


Thread-in-a-nutshell//

763 windsagio  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:08:31pm

re: #759 Obdicut

He's getting his needs met. Some people are thrill-junkies >

(and I'm not just being an ass, but am perfectly serious)

764 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:09:21pm

re: #755 reine.de.tout

Nope, didn't work.
Well, here's a really nifty garden shop.
Very unusual plants, and the lists are VERY helpful!
[Link: www.anniesannuals.com...]

765 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:09:54pm

re: #756 EmmmieG

Um, I taught a bunch of 13 year olds today how to calculate the period of a pendulum?

(I don't expect they will remember. I am only hoping for them to remember that the bob mass doesn't matter, and the angle doesn't matter, only the length of the string matters.)

two-pi times the square root of the length over gravity. Great. That's all I needed to learn today. Thanks for getting me to look that up.

766 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:10:03pm

re: #751 reine.de.tout

hehehe.
My understanding:
It's not toxic in that it doesn't mix with water and create polluted water.

It sits on top of the water, and some of it will evaporate.

Birds who get oil on them cannot fly or sit on the water and will probably die because they can't get it off of themselves. Sea life underneath the oil is safe; it's a danger if they get it on them or swallow it.

Once it reaches land, it becomes a big sticky ugly mess, possibly harmful to wildlife in that area, but it can be cleaned up.

After all the insults I have read tonight..
Reine you are an awesome poster and a real treasure here..Thanks for the email this morning.. You are great..
/ok back the the wars...ARE YOU READY TO RUMBLE!

767 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:10:09pm

re: #761 Bagua

Do you feel that calling someone not a real scientist-- which he isn't, by the standard of 'having a scientific degree'-- not a climatologist-- which, well, he isn't-- is 'slander'?

And do you seriously not understand that Ward Churchill was also a college professor and serves as a good example that merely being a professor holds no special merit?

You have accused me of slander. Slander is a crime. Accusing someone of a crime they didn't commit is, actually, slander.

So can you provide any evidence for your charge of slander against me, or not?

768 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:11:15pm

re: #734 Walter L. Newton

First, there was ample indication of issues associated with the divergence of model projections and accumulated heat years ago, but for whatever reasons, it was not openly discussed, with the exception of the 2008 NPR story (perhaps I've missed others).

Read what he said...

Walter I am talking about the scientific literature. Your attempts to play semantics are really pathetic.

Presumably this "respected scientist" would take the time to notice a lively discussion on this has existed for some time:

Here is a paper from 1980:

[Link: journals.ametsoc.org...]

Here is one from 1993:

[Link: www.agu.org...]

Here is one from 1997:

[Link: www.geo.utexas.edu...]

I suppose that I could list about 500 more up to the present day, but I hope you get the point without me having to do that. Looking into the heat budget is a key part of the science.

re: #745 Walter L. Newton

So am I.

Well at least you admit to being a troll.

769 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:12:25pm

re: #767 Obdicut

Oh, and it actually should be libel, not slander, I think, though the interwebs are an odd place that could be considered 'transitory'.

770 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:12:34pm

re: #768 LudwigVanQuixote


Ludwig!

LUDWIG!

You're the subject of your own damn thread somewhere else. Congrats!

771 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:12:46pm

re: #758 darthstar

That was a reference to the show, and not you, Walter...for the record. And I updinged you for calling me a turd. Nobody had ever called me a turd before (yadda, yadda, yadda)...

I understood. I think that you must know by now that none of this is any more important than what ever weight someone gives to each others comments or attitudes or opinions.

Foul language and name calling rolls off my back like water. It has not a milligram of importance to me. It's mostly a reflection of the person using the language, the rhetoric, the slam. Except for a handful of Lizards I have actually met, I don't know anyone here in real time, so it doesn't really mean jack.

It has to take a really sick and abuse mind for anyone to take any of this really personally. If you're weak enough to let any of this effect you (that's the universal you), then you really need to get off the internet and see a doctor.

I spend most of my time behind this keyboard as relaxed as a new born kitten.

772 Querent  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:12:49pm

re: #426 Shiplord Kirel

That's where the tobacco comes in.

oh, so THAT's how you (deleted) a gold brick...

773 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:13:15pm

re: #761 Bagua

You are doing your repetitive denial again, Obdicut. You called a respected Professor a liar and said he was not a real scientist, not a climatologist and compared him to Ward Churchill. It's academic McCarthyism, clearly.

Umm he did lie. That is why he is called a liar. How many papers do I have to link before you believe that this is an open topic?

774 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:13:18pm

re: #767 Obdicut

Do you feel that calling someone not a real scientist-- which he isn't, by the standard of 'having a scientific degree'-- not a climatologist-- which, well, he isn't-- is 'slander'?

And do you seriously not understand that Ward Churchill was also a college professor and serves as a good example that merely being a professor holds no special merit?

You have accused me of slander. Slander is a crime. Accusing someone of a crime they didn't commit is, actually, slander.

So can you provide any evidence for your charge of slander against me, or not?


The Obdicut repeat, repeat, repeat...

Roger A. Pielke, Jr. is a professor in the Environmental Studies Program, a noted author on Climate Change, a past contributing author to the IPCC and he most certainly is a "climatologist" by any accepted definition.

But have fun with your fledgling Academic Inquisition.

775 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:13:20pm

Think LVQ and Walter are going at it? Not so much....

776 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:13:46pm
777 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:14:02pm

re: #764 Floral Giraffe

Nope, didn't work.
Well, here's a really nifty garden shop.
Very unusual plants, and the lists are VERY helpful!
[Link: www.anniesannuals.com...]

Pretty.

778 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:14:42pm

re: #769 Obdicut

Oh, and it actually should be libel, not slander, I think, though the interwebs are an odd place that could be considered 'transitory'.

I am using 'slander' not 'libel' because this is chat site. Either way, it is vile.

779 ShaunP  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:14:45pm

re: #776 darthstar

Washington Post...I guess all black guys do look alike...but Malcom X? Really?

Dude, please tell me that's not real...

780 Gus  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:15:24pm

re: #547 Charles

Tim Blair struggles to understand how a human being can change an opinion, comes up blank:

Which is supposed to be very bad, I think. And Timmy calls me "son," which I believe indicates he's getting a bit hot under the right wing dog collar he wears.

Son? If this is correct he's 45 years old:

He began his journalism cadetship in 1988 at 23

781 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:16:05pm

re: #774 Bagua

The Obdicut repeat, repeat, repeat...

Roger A. Pielke, Jr. is a professor in the Environmental Studies Program, a noted author on Climate Change, a past contributing author to the IPCC and he most certainly is a "climatologist" by any accepted definition.

But have fun with your fledgling Academic Inquisition.

Umm it's not an inquisition. He made a laughably false claim that is easily disproved and and is caught in it. That's pretty much it, cut and dried.

Right, I don't need to go any further.

He lied, Walter is taking glee in repeating the lie and you are taking glee in poking Obdicut by shifting away from the fact that he lied.

782 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:16:21pm

re: #759 Obdicut

Why do you enjoy baiting Ludwig and causing flamewars, Walter? Not to mention repeatedly posting untrue statements from Pielke's blog?

Is there any other way you can satisfy whatever urge drives you to do this? It's not actually pleasant for a lot of people.

Bullshit... I assume that Ludwig is an adult and I'll let Ludwig be responsible for his own reactions. If you are suggesting that I hold the power to push his buttons and effect all these changes in his personality, if you expect me to take responsibility for his foul mouth, you're looking at the wrong Kumbaya buddy.

That's actually an insult to Ludwig... you can't really mean what you said?

783 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:16:40pm

re: #774 Bagua

So you are completely unable to substantiate what you said about me. Look out the window-- I think a shipment of irony is being delivered to your house.

I'm also kind of unsure how my inquisition is supposed to be proceeding. Have I said Pielke should be fired? No. And I don't, actually, believe he should be. I don't think he should face any actual punishment for blatantly lying, other than the continued diminishing of his reputation-- which probably bothers him and his bank account none.

So in what way is this an Inquisition? You were unable to explain how I'm slandering him; perhaps you'll be able to justify saying I'm trying to start an inquisition.

784 zora  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:16:50pm

re: #776 darthstar

malcolm x's killer was just released from prison. i really hope the pic was for that article.

785 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:16:52pm

re: #778 Bagua

I am using 'slander' not 'libel' because this is chat site. Either way, it is vile.

Only it is not slander of libel if true and well your boy is caught with his pants down - committing a dishonest libel of his own.

786 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:17:11pm

re: #776 darthstar

Washington Post...I guess all black guys do look alike...but Malcom X? Really?

Looks like they "corrected" it?

Now it's the Malcom X killer paroled story underneath the photo.

Another day...

787 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:17:18pm

re: #775 tradewind

I resent that...

788 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:17:48pm

re: #782 Walter L. Newton

My question was pretty clear, Walter. I'm sorry that you're dodging it. I won't ask it again.

I just wanted to give you a clear chance, at least one time.

789 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:18:10pm

re: #788 Obdicut

My question was pretty clear, Walter. I'm sorry that you're dodging it. I won't ask it again.

I just wanted to give you a clear chance, at least one time.

You blew it.

790 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:18:19pm

re: #782 Walter L. Newton

Yes Walter and my response has been to explain the science clearly to you and point out the lies that you repeated. I then proved that they were lies by linking to papers that show this has been an issue of discussion for quite some time.

791 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:18:40pm

re: #783 Obdicut

So you are completely unable to substantiate what you said about me.
[....].

LOL, you are so repetitive. You always make these assertions over and over that nothing was ever proven by anyone. What a joke.

792 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:18:45pm

re: #788 Obdicut

My question was pretty clear, Walter. I'm sorry that you're dodging it. I won't ask it again.

I just wanted to give you a clear chance, at least one time.

Thank you Mother Teresa. You're laughable sometimes.

793 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:18:47pm

re: #789 Walter L. Newton

It wasn't my chance, Walter.

794 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:18:49pm

re: #787 Walter L. Newton
Just going for some comic relief, Walter. Lord knows we can use it.

795 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:19:10pm

re: #779 ShaunP

Dude, please tell me that's not real...

It's real...they fixed it, but not before someone got a screenshot. FP'd dKos right now.

796 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:20:10pm

re: #791 Bagua

LOL, you are so repetitive. You always make these assertions over and over that nothing was ever proven by anyone. What a joke.

Why are you still going at there Bagua? Seriously, what is the point? You know your boy was lying. Why bother defending an untenable position?

797 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:20:17pm

re: #795 darthstar

I'm hoping it was some dude who used that as a placeholder image, rather than something intentional.

I wonder if they'll now adapt a zero tolerance policy.

798 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:20:24pm

re: #793 Obdicut

It wasn't my chance, Walter.

Oh father in heaven, forgive me...

799 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:21:35pm

re: #797 Obdicut

I'm hoping it was some dude who used that as a placeholder image, rather than something intentional.

I wonder if they'll now adapt a zero tolerance policy.

Well, WaPo isn't exactly Fox News...Fox does this kind of shit on a daily basis, and their 'zero tolerance' policy only applies to Democrats.

800 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:21:37pm

Wind! what's up? Add some (more) spice to the thread por favor?

801 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:21:46pm

re: #785 LudwigVanQuixote

Only it is not slander of libel if true and well your boy is caught with his pants down - committing a dishonest libel of his own.

The slander/libel part is not referring to any one statement, debate and falsification are not slanderous. I was referring specifically to Obdicut's statements calling the Professor's academic qualification in question.

I have no problem with anyone banging the table and shouting that he is wrong, let's just afford him the minimum respect due a Professor.

802 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:22:12pm

Interesting... Roger A. Pielke, Jr's. father is engage in climate studies too!

Roger A. Pielke, Sr. (born October 22, 1946) is a meteorologist with interests in climate variability and climate change, environmental vulnerability, numerical modeling, atmospheric dynamics, land/ocean - atmosphere interactions, and large eddy/turbulent boundary layer modeling. He particularly focuses on mesoscale weather and climate processes but also investigates on the global, regional, and microscale. Pielke is an ISI Highly Cited Researcher.[1]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

803 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:22:18pm

re: #798 Walter L. Newton

Oh father in heaven, forgive me...

Please Walter...Stop now and let's change the subject...

804 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:22:19pm

re: #770 JasonA

Ludwig!

LUDWIG!

You're the subject of your own damn thread somewhere else. Congrats!

Again! Really! I am so honored!

805 ShaunP  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:22:54pm

Meghan McCain comes out against the Arizona Immigration law:

Let me say upfront that I do not support the bill that was signed by Governor Jan Brewer. I believe it gives the state police a license to discriminate, and also, in many ways, violates the civil rights of Arizona residents. Simply put, I think it is a bad law that is missing the bigger picture of what is really going on with illegal immigration. The concept that a law-enforcement official can stop an individual when “reasonable suspicion exists that a person is an alien, who is unlawfully present in the United States” is essentially a license to pull someone over for being Hispanic...

...In the end, the saddest part for me is that we are all losing with this immigration law. Arizona is being shown in a negative light in the media, and once again Hispanic voters in Arizona have yet another reason to distrust the Republican Party. And the issue of immigration has now become so politicized that I seriously wonder if anything can be done to combat the real issues. In the meantime, Arizona ranchers are being shot and killed and very little has been done to prevent it from happening again.

The more I hear from this woman, the more I like...

806 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:23:05pm

re: #776 darthstar

Washington Post...I guess all black guys do look alike...but Malcom X? Really?

Yikes. At Wash Post somebody will probably lose their job over that. At Fox it would get a promotion.

807 Querent  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:23:07pm

re: #563 Dante41

Perhaps they have confused him with Charlie Brown, and think Charles is as much of a push-over.

perhaps Tim's confused him with the founder of the Flat Earth Society (also a Charles Johnson. Yep, i laughed like a hyena when i discovered that little coinkidink)

808 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:23:10pm

re: #803 HoosierHoops

Please Walter...Stop now and let's change the subject...

He's on a (t)roll right now...he won't stop until he's ready.

809 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:23:27pm

OK, how about something we can all agree is repulsive:

Oklahoma Abortion Bill to Become Law Following Senate Override of Governor's Veto

Yes, the Oklahoma State Senate decided to get its Theocracy on.

810 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:23:46pm

re: #805 ShaunP

Meghan McCain comes out against the Arizona Immigration law:

The more I hear from this woman, the more I like...her mother's genetic contribution


Finished that for you.

811 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:24:20pm

re: #808 darthstar

He's on a (t)roll right now...he won't stop until he's ready.

I'll tell you what, you shut up about LOST and I'll shut up about AGW.

812 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:24:26pm

re: #796 LudwigVanQuixote

Why are you still going at there Bagua? Seriously, what is the point? You know your boy was lying. Why bother defending an untenable position?

Because of all the follow up questions aimed at me. Also, please note, I am not defending any one position of his, rather this apparent demonisation of a man respected in his field.

813 windsagio  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:25:13pm

re: #800 Stanley Sea

There's really no point :p

We all know how this convo goes. The trolls troll, and the people subject to getting trolled get pisst.

Eventually someone says something crazy and everyone freaks out.

Its old news man.

814 windsagio  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:25:42pm

I got super SF4, but I'm taking a break for a bit, its tres cool

815 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:25:43pm

We were talking about Texan's and guns earlier weren't we?

Gov. Perry takes down Wile E. Coyote

Perry says he needed just one shot from his laser-sighted pistol to take down a coyote that was menacing his dog during an early morning jog in an undeveloped area near Austin.

Perry told The Associated Press he sometimes carries his pistol, loaded with hollow-pointed bullets, when he jogs on trails because he's scared of snakes — and that he'd seen coyotes in that area.

Dallas News

816 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:25:58pm

re: #813 windsagio

There's really no point :p

We all know how this convo goes. The trolls troll, and the people subject to getting trolled get pisst.

Eventually someone says something crazy and everyone freaks out.

Its old news man.

I sweet heart... got anything new in good looking pumps?

817 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:26:01pm

re: #739 wrenchwench

Nice avatar. Is that Mr. Smith of Lost In Space?

Dr.Smith, Madame. Thank you.

818 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:26:10pm

re: #811 Walter L. Newton

I'll tell you what, you shut up about LOST and I'll shut up about AGW.

You're not talking about AGW...you're entertaining yourself by getting people to fight with you.

And I know you're a big fan of the show "Lost"...we all have our faults.

819 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:26:35pm

re: #802 Walter L. Newton

His father is an Atmospheric Scientist. I'm not sure if he passes Obdicut's examination though, the standards are quite high.

820 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:26:55pm

re: #818 darthstar

You're not talking about AGW...you're entertaining yourself by getting people to fight with you.

And I know you're a big fan of the show "Lost"...we all have our faults.

You didn't answer my question. I'll tell you what, you shut up about LOST and I'll shut up about what ever it is you want me to shut up about.

821 windsagio  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:27:31pm

Also, I turned out that because I had to reschedule my goddamn trip, I'm gonna miss the Descent game I usually go to, so now like my best friend is annoyed with me too.


Good day for fighting I think >

822 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:27:54pm

re: #815 Stanley Sea

We were talking about Texan's and guns earlier weren't we?

Gov. Perry takes down Wile E. Coyote

Dallas News

Laser sighted pistol? What kind of pathetic fuckwit needs a laser sight on his pistol?

823 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:27:54pm

re: #819 Bagua

Are you going to be able to show how my complete lack of desire for him to face any punishment or consequences equates to an inquisition?

Just thought I'd check.

824 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:28:04pm

re: #804 LudwigVanQuixote

Again! Really! I am so honored!

Yes. That Stalker POS "savage" (the same guy who's posted about wanting to punch his own mother) devoted an entire thread to blogstalking Ludwig.

825 austin_blue  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:28:11pm

re: #674 reine.de.tout

This link is supposed to work without having to sign in.

My heart to the dead and their families.

I worked off-shore as a wellhead geologist from '83 to '89. Had some big kicks, but never anything like that. Did see a platform nearby lose it's pipe string, once. Four dead before they blind-rammed it. No fire.

Dangerous work.

826 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:28:27pm

re: #821 windsagio

For a second I was thinking of the 90's era first-person shooter.

827 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:28:33pm

re: #822 darthstar

Laser sighted pistol? What kind of pathetic fuckwit needs a laser sight on his pistol?

Exactly. And for snakes!!!! ooh, tough guy.

828 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:29:00pm

re: #819 Bagua

His father is an Atmospheric Scientist. I'm not sure if he passes Obdicut's examination though, the standards are quite high.

Dad published over 300 papers... must be self published. Interesting, but between Roger A. Pielke, Sr. and his son Roger A. Pielke, Jr., that makes a really strong team of scientist. Both support the basic climate change models, they both have certain opinions on aspects of the science, but they aren't deniers in a long shot.

Quite a powerful team.

829 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:29:32pm

re: #802 Walter L. Newton

Interesting... Roger A. Pielke, Jr's. father is engage in climate studies too!

No, Walter. Pielke Sr. is a meteorologist, not a climatologist. And Pielke Jr. is not a scientist at all, his Ph.D. is in political science.

And both Sr. and Jr. have similar reputations among climate scientists -- very bad reputations. They're deniers, Walter, not reputable climate scientists.

830 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:29:49pm

re: #825 austin_blue

My heart to the dead and their families.

I worked off-shore as a wellhead geologist from '83 to '89. Had some big kicks, but never anything like that. Did see a platform nearby lose it's pipe string, once. Four dead before they blind-rammed it. No fire.

Dangerous work.

The Roi has worked on the Nautilus, but not the Deepwater Horizon.
His company had 5 employees at the rig; lost 2 of them, one a young man of 28 whose wife is 2 weeks from giving birth to their 2nd son. Hubby went to a memorial service yesterday.

831 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:30:10pm

re: #827 Stanley Sea

Exactly. And for snakes!!! ooh, tough guy.

I use a pocket knife and a stick on snakes. Then again, I grew up in rattle-snake country and killed about a dozen a year around our house when I was a kid.

832 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:30:17pm

re: #825 austin_blue

Sorry for the morbid curiosity, but can you explain the technical terms in your post?

Specifically, pipe-string and blind-ramming?

833 windsagio  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:30:33pm

re: #826 JasonA

Which was excellent btw, Freespace I & II were the best space shooters ever made.

834 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:30:37pm

re: #823 Obdicut

Are you going to be able to show how my complete lack of desire for him to face any punishment or consequences equates to an inquisition?

Just thought I'd check.

Lol, you're like the Energizer Bunny!

You may want to observe than I'm not, a dully appointed justice department official, thus, how can I possibly suggest you've slandered anyone? That would stump me.

835 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:30:49pm

Start reading here to see how scientists regard the Pielkes:

[Link: www.google.com...]

836 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:30:58pm

re: #822 darthstar

Laser sighted pistol? What kind of pathetic fuckwit needs a laser sight on his pistol?

Someone who wants to hit the target, maybe? They also sometimes convince criminals they've gone after the wrong person. Seeing the laser dot on his chest will often convince a mugger its time to go away.

837 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:31:32pm

Republicans?
Hyre: #822 darthstar

Laser sighted pistol? What kind of pathetic fuckwit needs a laser sight on his pistol?

Perry obviously....

838 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:31:57pm

re: #835 Charles

Start reading here to see how scientists regard the Pielkes:

[Link: www.google.com...]

You're getting in the way of Walter's right to be wrong.

839 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:32:21pm

re: #829 Charles

No, Walter. Pielke Sr. is a meteorologist, not a climatologist. And Pielke Jr. is not a scientist at all, his Ph.D. is in political science.

And both Sr. and Jr. have similar reputations among climate scientists -- very bad reputations. They're deniers, Walter, not reputable climate scientists.

I don't see them as deniers... I see them as having a different view of the same problem. My first look at them today (never even heard of them until Freetoken mentioned the link), they are not in lock step with ever scientist in the climate change community, but they have both contributed to the body of climate change work, including the IPCC reports.

Difference in scientific opinions does not make one a denier.

840 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:32:58pm

re: #834 Bagua

That's so nonsensical I'm not sure what to say. You repeatedly said that I'd slandered him, and that I was starting an inquisition. You haven't done a thing to substantiate either charge.

Do you really want to continue digging this hole? It's the same hole you dig every time. It must be boring.

841 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:33:09pm

re: #831 darthstar

I use a pocket knife and a stick on snakes. Then again, I grew up in rattle-snake country and killed about a dozen a year around our house when I was a kid.

We pick em up for the photo. Then let them go. Not rattlers mind you, although we caught a baby & had it in a tank for awhile. Thing LOVED me, or was it my red shirt? Would get mesmerized when I stood next to the tank. Let him go shortly thereafter.

But a laser pistol with hollow point bullets on a jog? Gov. Perry is really more than his hair I guess.

842 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:33:12pm

re: #835 Charles

Start reading here to see how scientists regard the Pielkes:

[Link: www.google.com...]

I'll look them over.

843 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:33:37pm

re: #816 Walter L. Newton

I sweet heart... got anything new in good looking pumps?

Here you are, darling:Image: 10147408-christian-louboutin-shoes.jpg

844 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:34:25pm

re: #839 Walter L. Newton

I don't see them as deniers... I see them as having a different view of the same problem. My first look at them today (never even heard of them until Freetoken mentioned the link), they are not in lock step with ever scientist in the climate change community, but they have both contributed to the body of climate change work, including the IPCC reports.

Difference in scientific opinions does not make one a denier.

OK, that's your first look at them.

I've been following the issues surrounding both of the Pielkes for several years, and I have no hesitation at all calling them climate change deniers. It's what they do, with a slightly slicker facade than people like Monckton and Inhofe.

845 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:34:33pm

Kids in The Hall or Glenn Beck?

I'm just asking?

846 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:34:46pm

re: #839 Walter L. Newton

I don't see them as deniers... I see them as having a different view of the same problem. My first look at them today (never even heard of them until Freetoken mentioned the link), they are not in lock step with ever scientist in the climate change community, but they have both contributed to the body of climate change work, including the IPCC reports.

Difference in scientific opinions does not make one a denier.

Apparently we must expand the term "denier" to also apply to those who are not sceptics, and do not deny Climate Change, just if anything they say is ever a little controversial.

847 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:34:50pm

re: #841 Stanley Sea

We pick em up for the photo. Then let them go. Not rattlers mind you, although we caught a baby & had it in a tank for awhile. Thing LOVED me, or was it my red shirt? Would get mesmerized when I stood next to the tank. Let him go shortly thereafter.

But a laser pistol with hollow point bullets on a jog? Gov. Perry is really more than his hair I guess.

I let 'em all go now...even rattlers. I just keep the dogs away from them. If it comes down to the snake or my dog though, then the snake gets it. Lost a few dogs growing up to rattlers.

848 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:35:05pm

re: #815 Stanley Sea
Damn coyotes have come right up onto porches around here and killed small dogs. I don't blame him.

849 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:35:44pm

re: #840 Obdicut

[Repetitive nonsense.]

850 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:35:55pm

re: #844 Charles

You're making his day right now...

851 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:35:59pm

re: #846 Bagua

Apparently we must expand the term "denier" to also apply to those who are not sceptics, and do not deny Climate Change, just if anything they say is ever a little controversial.

No need to expand anything. They fit the current definition just fine.

852 zora  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:36:02pm

re: #845 webevintage

i love this one!

853 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:36:13pm

re: #822 darthstar
A careful one.

854 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:36:19pm

I hate snakes.
Snakes and clowns and dolls with eyes that follow you around the room....

855 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:36:30pm

re: #843 prairiefire

Here you are, darling:Image: 10147408-christian-louboutin-shoes.jpg

I hope the next girl I see in those pumps has a Tee-Shirt that says, ' You can't be first..But you may be next'
/I saw that once on a beautiful blond girl in Napa...

856 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:36:37pm

re: #838 JasonA

You're getting in the way of Walter's right to be wrong.

Nope... he's linking me to material I need to read... otherwise... fuck off.

857 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:36:42pm

re: #848 tradewind

Damn coyotes have come right up onto porches around here and killed small dogs. I don't blame him.

Can't leave out food. Or let your pet out alone at night. We have mucho coyotes where I live. They were here first!

858 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:37:28pm

re: #853 tradewind

A careful one.

No, a paranoid one who needs a laser to tell him when he's pointing his gun in the right direction.

859 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:37:42pm

re: #856 Walter L. Newton

Nope... he's linking me to material I need to read... otherwise... fuck off.

Shame you didn't read it a few hours ago.

860 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:37:55pm

re: #851 Charles

No need to expand anything. They fit the current definition just fine.

You are saying that Roger A. Pielke, sr. and Roger A. Pielke, Jr. are both AGW deniers?

861 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:38:21pm

re: #847 darthstar

If it comes down to the snake or my dog though, then the snake gets it.


/Now there's a Sophie's choice./

862 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:38:33pm

re: #860 Bagua

You are saying that Roger A. Pielke, sr. and Roger A. Pielke, Jr. are both AGW deniers?

Is there an echo in here?

863 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:38:36pm

BBL

864 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:38:43pm

re: #858 darthstar

No, a paranoid one who needs a laser to tell him when he's pointing his gun in the right direction.

While jogging! I am still LOL. I bet there were McMansions surrounding his path, as far as the eye could see.

865 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:38:49pm

re: #848 tradewind

Damn coyotes have come right up onto porches around here and killed small dogs. I don't blame him.

I have never actually seen a rattle snake, living where I do... I have heard that they taste like eels...

866 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:38:57pm

re: #857 Stanley Sea
Yeah, so were cockroaches, but I don't have to defer to them.//

867 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:39:23pm

re: #844 Charles

OK, that's your first look at them.

I've been following the issues surrounding both of the Pielkes for several years, and I have no hesitation at all calling them climate change deniers. It's what they do, with a slightly slicker facade than people like Monckton and Inhofe.

Like I said above, I'll look into those links. The blog article that Freetoken mentioned, which I read, didn't scream "denier" at all, and the two Wiki entries of father and son didn't have a long litany of "denier" references. That was the bulk of material I've gone over in the last hour and a half.

868 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:39:31pm

re: #856 Walter L. Newton

Nope... he's linking me to material I need to read... otherwise... fuck off.

Nice...
I don't think anyone here needs to fuck off...

869 austin_blue  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:39:32pm

re: #830 reine.de.tout

The Roi has worked on the Nautilus, but not the Deepwater Horizon.
His company had 5 employees at the rig; lost 2 of them, one a young man of 28 whose wife is 2 weeks from giving birth to their 2nd son. Hubby went to a memorial service yesterday.

Reine;

Gaah. Awful. These things always are. I used to work for ExLog, and we lost five at Piper Alpha, two of whom I knew well.

Did it come in on them when they were perforating the production casing?

870 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:39:32pm

re: #857 Stanley Sea

Can't leave out food. Or let your pet out alone at night. We have mucho coyotes where I live. They were here first!

We've got tons of coyotes as well...they yap-yap-yap at night trying to draw a barking dog out of its yard...then swarm en masse. I had one following us on a trail one time, trying to get my dog to chase him...I could hear his buddies tracking about fifty yards away in the brush, and quickly leashed my dog, even though he didn't show an interest in giving chase.

871 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:39:41pm

re: #865 brookly red
It's a tasty snack in the bayou. Slap it on a cracker and voila... instant canapes.

872 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:40:21pm

re: #865 brookly red

I have never actually seen a rattle snake, living where I do... I have heard that they taste like eels...

They taste more like frog legs, actually...not a bad flavor, but a little chewy.

873 darthstar  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:40:53pm

re: #868 HoosierHoops

Nice...
I don't think anyone here needs to fuck off...

I need to fuck of... See you all later.
:)

874 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:40:58pm

re: #870 darthstar

We've got tons of coyotes as well...they yap-yap-yap at night trying to draw a barking dog out of its yard...then swarm en masse. I had one following us on a trail one time, trying to get my dog to chase him...I could hear his buddies tracking about fifty yards away in the brush, and quickly leashed my dog, even though he didn't show an interest in giving chase.

Smart smart animals. Your dog too. (banjo? - loved that photo of him in the surf)

875 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:41:02pm

re: #871 tradewind

It's a tasty snack in the bayou. Slap it on a cracker and voila... instant canapes.

come to think of it I don't think I have ever seen a coyote... but some of the strays do look the part.

876 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:41:26pm

re: #850 darthstar

You're making his day right now...

If Charles has something to pass on to me, fine. But god didn't speak to me and I don't get any tingle in my leg when he speaks to me. Sorry I can't share your experience.

877 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:41:54pm

re: #872 darthstar

They taste more like frog legs, actually...not a bad flavor, but a little chewy.

do you fry them? or grill?

878 ShaunP  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:42:30pm

re: #877 brookly red

do you fry them? or grill?

I've had grilled rattlesnake sausage; it was pretty tasty actually...

879 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:42:31pm

re: #857 Stanley Sea
I never leave food out... my two get their bowls set out, and ten minutes later, it's hasta la foodsta.
No doggy buffet around here.

880 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:42:34pm

re: #875 brookly red

come to think of it I don't think I have ever seen a coyote... but some of the strays do look the part.

They are amazing when you can see them. They are very sly, so you rarely do. City life vs. rural.

caveat - I have no pets, therefore I am intrigued.

881 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:43:08pm

How do you get a 9 week old kitten from climbing up all over you and biting even inch of exposed flesh. This little thing is a spawn of a demon.

882 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:43:14pm

re: #871 tradewind

It's a tasty snack in the bayou. Slap it on a cracker and voila... instant canapes.

You racist cannibal!
/

883 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:43:15pm

re: #862 Charles

Is there an echo in here?

No, you're right, you were clear the first time. I was just a bit shocked, my apologies.

884 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:43:32pm

re: #875 brookly red

come to think of it I don't think I have ever seen a coyote... but some of the strays do look the part.

Check out the Bronx.

885 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:43:32pm

re: #881 Walter L. Newton

How do you get a 9 week old kitten from climbing up all over you and biting even inch of exposed flesh. This little thing is a spawn of a demon.

You don't. But you take lots of photos.

886 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:43:43pm

re: #844 Charles

OK, that's your first look at them.

I've been following the issues surrounding both of the Pielkes for several years, and I have no hesitation at all calling them climate change deniers. It's what they do, with a slightly slicker facade than people like Monckton and Inhofe.

Only this time there was nothing too terribly slick at all about the misinformation. He claimed falsely, and to slander actual hard working scientists, that the heat budget and the problem of accounting for all of it, were somehow a hidden issue that proved that there was some sort of "cover-up" going on in the community.

Yet, even the most basic search of the literature, I mean put "Global Heat Budget" into google scholar, and you see instantly that there has been robust and prolific inquiry into this issue for a very log time.

It's just a lie to claim otherwise.

What boggles me here on this blog is Walter's fundamental intellectual dishonesty. If you think Peilke was telling the truth, that this was somehow not a big and open discussion, that one second google scholar search would put paid to the discussion either way. Yet we have 20 posts on Peilke's reputation. Yes he and his dad are professional deniers. There is however, no need to even get into it. Either what he said was true or false and easily shown to be so.

Yet Walter can not be bothered to do such things.

887 austin_blue  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:44:14pm

re: #881 Walter L. Newton

How do you get a 9 week old kitten from climbing up all over you and biting even inch of exposed flesh. This little thing is a spawn of a demon.

Body armor.

888 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:44:17pm

re: #875 brookly red
Think really underweight shepherd/lab cross with wolf eyes and you're close.

889 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:44:44pm

re: #846 Bagua

Apparently we must expand the term "denier" to also apply to those who are not sceptics, and do not deny Climate Change, just if anything they say is ever a little controversial.

Open, obvious and stupid lies are not "just a little controversial" Bagua.

890 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:44:48pm

re: #882 Alouette
Laughing out loud.... great time to quit!
thanks for that.

891 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:45:52pm

re: #885 Stanley Sea

You don't. But you take lots of photos.

Ok... he's now climbed up the BACK of my high, cloth covered desk chair and is trying to find a way to CRAWL into my ear. No, update, he fell off the back of my chair, climb back on my leg and is sitting in my lap... looking for something to chew on...

892 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:46:26pm

re: #838 JasonA

You're getting in the way of Walter's right to be wrong.

A right he exercises very consistently when it comes to science. Perhaps if he chose to look at objective facts he would do better.

893 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:46:43pm

re: #886 LudwigVanQuixote

Ludwig... I don't even waste my time listening to you anymore. At least Charles is civil.

894 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:46:43pm

re: #884 Walter L. Newton

Check out the Bronx.

I heard they caught one in Central Park recently...

I know wolves & dogs can breed, can there be a demi-coyote?

895 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:47:24pm

re: #891 Walter L. Newton

Lap and chew should never be in the same sentence!!
Just sayin!
Hi Walter!
When was the last time you fed the "demon"!LOL

896 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:47:39pm

oh Spare o Lake...I'm feeling your downding while I've tried to calm the wars here...Come out to play and tell me why...

897 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:47:53pm

re: #894 brookly red

I heard they caught one in Central Park recently...

I know wolves & dogs can breed, can there be a demi-coyote?

Coydogs...

[Link: www.dogbreedinfo.com...]

898 allegro  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:48:02pm

re: #894 brookly red

I know wolves & dogs can breed, can there be a demi-coyote?

yes

899 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:48:36pm

Hahahahaha
This takes some balls:
[Link: www.usatoday.com...]

The Arizona agency tasked with training 15,000 law officers to enforce the state's controversial new illegal immigration law has asked federal authorities for assistance, but administration officials say it is unclear whether the government will help.

900 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:48:42pm

re: #894 brookly red

Yes!
And , feral domestic dogs can far more aggressive than Coyotes!

901 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:48:49pm

re: #839 Walter L. Newton

Walter that is such BS. This is not about differences in scientific opinion. This is about an obviously lie your boy told.

902 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:49:27pm

re: #895 reloadingisnotahobby

Lap and chew should never be in the same sentence!!
Just sayin!
Hi Walter!
When was the last time you fed the "demon"!LOL

He has access to a full bowl all the time. The family has taken to thinking it's cute letting him pounce, chew, scratch and tumble on everything, including bare flesh, legs, face, eyelashes and so on.

So this guy wants to attack anything that moves and is attached to a human body.

903 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:49:34pm

re: #620 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #585 Aceofwhat?
Only nothing was ever hidden yet again. NOTHING WAS HIDDEN! NOTHING WAS HIDDEN! THIS HAS BEEN WELL KNOWN IN THE LITERATURE< THE OPEN LITERATURE FOR A VERY LONG TIME!

NOTHING WAS HIDDEN EVER! YOU ARE ONLY CONTRIBUTING TO A FALSE SMEAR MEME.

Ludwig...dude...relax. Just got back, trying to catch up. You misunderstood what i was trying to say. I don't believe that anyone was trying to hide anything with regard to this heat sink topic. I think you read my post after your vision had already gone red. Don't worry about it - i just wanted to you to know that i'm not on board with whatever false interweb smear you were concerend about.

we're good here.

904 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:49:56pm

re: #895 reloadingisnotahobby

Lap and chew should never be in the same sentence!!
Just sayin!
Hi Walter!
When was the last time you fed the "demon"!LOL

/Hey! Lap Chew's is a fine restaurant, don't knock em.

905 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:50:14pm
906 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:50:25pm

re: #889 LudwigVanQuixote

Open, obvious and stupid lies are not "just a little controversial" Bagua.

It is news to me that these two are considered deniers, I thought they were on your side. I'm not taking sides with any deniers.

907 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:50:37pm

re: #901 LudwigVanQuixote

Walter that is such BS. This is not about differences in scientific opinion. This is about an obviously lie your boy told.

Go take a break... I have. Otherwise... yawn.

908 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:50:43pm

re: #893 Walter L. Newton

Ludwig... I don't even waste my time listening to you anymore. At least Charles is civil.

Walter, that was civil and you started with the cussing remember?

Now as to uncivil, the fact is that I believe you are smarter than your gog-eyed credulity would seem to indicate. I think you are a purposeful troll. I honestly think that you aren't as stupid as you let on, but are rather trying to be disingenuous, obnoxious and foolish on purpose.

909 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:50:46pm

re: #900 reloadingisnotahobby

Yes!
And , feral domestic dogs can far more aggressive than Coyotes!

No shit...

910 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:51:12pm

re: #899 webevintage

Hahahahaha
This takes some balls:
[Link: www.usatoday.com...]

The Arizona agency tasked with training 15,000 law officers to enforce the state's controversial new illegal immigration law has asked federal authorities for assistance, but administration officials say it is unclear whether the government will help.

Exhibit 1. How to waste money in a recession. Hello fiscal conservatives?

911 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:51:46pm

re: #905 Spare O'Lake

I'm still talking to you pal...Why the downding?

912 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:52:14pm

re: #897 Walter L. Newton

Coydogs...

[Link: www.dogbreedinfo.com...]

so the cur with the real big head is probably a coyote/pitbull mix...

913 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:52:53pm

I have seen one coyote and we lived here almost 14 years but we hear them all the time.
Creepy and they freak out my dogs & cats.

I used to see a few copperheads every year, but last year not one.
I think all the cats have pretty much scared them farther back into the woods...which is fine with me but I try to still pay attention where I put my feet when I'm outside.

914 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:53:08pm

re: #912 brookly red

so the cur with the real big head is probably a coyote/pitbull mix...

Coyote / Pit Bull mix....Hmmm...NO!!

915 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:53:57pm

re: #914 reloadingisnotahobby

Coyote / Pit Bull mix...Hmmm...NO!!

no as can't happen or no as hope not?

916 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:54:46pm

re: #912 brookly red

so the cur with the real big head is probably a coyote/pitbull mix...

I don't know... I know this much, I've know a good handful of people who bred wolf/domestic dog hybrids, and I wouldn't trust any of those animals. It seems you can't totally get rid of that natural wild tendency, and I've seen these things go psycho.

Probably the same with the coyote hybrids.

917 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:54:50pm

re: #899 webevintage

That's really priceless.

918 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:55:49pm

re: #915 brookly red

no as can't happen or no as hope not?

Hope to hell no one would think that a good Idea!
Pit /Poodle??
Gads...A curley haired pit would be ..ah ..different!

919 ryannon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:55:51pm

And now for something really different, as well as being a very subtle political statement: Can anyone recommend a shop for men's classic pleated chino shorts? This is the general idea, but cuffed would be ideal.

Thanks for your recommendations!

920 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:56:32pm

re: #911 HoosierHoops

I'm still talking to you pal...Why the downding?

I was in a prevent defence.

921 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:56:32pm

re: #919 ryannon

Penny's?

922 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:56:45pm

re: #919 ryannon

Pleated pants are an abomination before Gunther.

The only valid reason to wear them is if you have a ginormous wang.

923 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:56:46pm

re: #919 ryannon

Tried Ralph Lauren?

924 Bagua  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:56:52pm

Gosh, tonight's episode is a repeat.

925 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:57:04pm

re: #875 brookly red

come to think of it I don't think I have ever seen a coyote... but some of the strays do look the part.

they're all over the florida suburbs. crafty little devils. i tried to approach one on foot about a month ago, but apparently my 160lb frame was as imposing and awe-inspiring as i suspected/

926 ryannon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:57:14pm

re: #922 Obdicut

Pleated pants are an abomination before Gunther.

The only valid reason to wear them is if you have a ginormous wang.

Well, as a matter of fact....

927 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:57:47pm

re: #918 reloadingisnotahobby

Hope to hell no one would think that a good Idea!
Pit /Poodle??
Gads...A curley haired pit would be ..ah ..different!

well I don't know if anyone would breed such but I have seen things running around in East New York that look the part...

928 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:58:19pm

re: #925 Aceofwhat?

It's obvious you didn't have bacon around your neck!Right?

929 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:58:30pm

re: #921 webevintage

Penny's?

[Link: www4.jcpenney.com...]

930 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:58:51pm

re: #927 brookly red

well I don't know if anyone would breed such but I have seen things running around in East New York that look the part...

Wolfen!

931 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:58:56pm

re: #925 Aceofwhat?

they're all over the florida suburbs. crafty little devils. i tried to approach one on foot about a month ago, but apparently my 160lb frame was as imposing and awe-inspiring as i suspected/

/or maybe the flash of your laser sight....

932 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:59:11pm

re: #924 Bagua

Gosh, tonight's episode is a repeat.

Yes... it's the only scheduled break week... tonight... they are repeating the "Richard centric" episode.

Sunday May 23, there will be FIVE hours of LOST. Two hour recap of the whole 6 years, the two hour series finale and then an hour of Jummy Krimmel (sp?) with an all LOST round up.

933 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:59:17pm

re: #930 Spare O'Lake

Wolfen!

damn good book!

934 ryannon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 4:59:58pm

re: #929 webevintage

Thank you for the link!

They look good and are half the price of Land's End.

935 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:00:23pm

re: #930 Spare O'Lake

Wolfen!

Good movie. One of the early uses of "steadycam" cameras, those POV shots with the wolf running through the streets of the Bronx and New York.

936 austin_blue  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:01:09pm

re: #832 Obdicut

Sorry for the morbid curiosity, but can you explain the technical terms in your post?

Specifically, pipe-string and blind-ramming?

The string is the part that holds the bit. Basically a big straw with a grinder on the bottom. The tube is hollow so that drilling mud can be pumped down to the bottom. The drilling mud does three things. I cools and lubricates the bit. It carries the drill cuttings back to the surface. And it's weight is adjusted to keep the formation open as pressure increases with depth. If the mud isn't heavy enough, it will allow natural gas and water to enter the bore. The water thins the mud and the natural gas expands as it nears the surface. This is called a "kick".

If the kick is relatively small, you circulate heavier mud down the string and stabilize the weight/pressure differential. If the kick is larger, you can close the Hydril, which is basically a big rubber sphincter that holds the returning mud coming back to the surface outside of the string, and again pump heavier mud down the string.

If the Hydril doesn't work, there are two other options. One is a pipe ram, which is a metal shear that closes around the string, shutting off the annulus between the casing and allowing mud only to be pumped down the string. The other is the blind ram, which is another shear the slams both the annulus and the pipe shut.

If the doesn't work, the well blows out.

937 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:01:45pm

re: #932 Walter L. Newton

Did you get the day off?

938 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:01:45pm

re: #920 Spare O'Lake

I was in a prevent defence.

I have never attacked you or any view you have ever posted here...I was hoping to bring some civility to the conversation.. Epic Fail...But don't worry...Walter downdinged me...Not to worry..I'm not one of his newbee bitches he can pick fights with with his baiting crap...You feeling me Walter?

939 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:01:51pm

re: #934 ryannon

Thank you for the link!

They look good and are half the price of Land's End.

JC Penny's...it's where your mom and dad shop.
;-)

940 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:02:12pm

re: #881 Walter L. Newton

How do you get a 9 week old kitten from climbing up all over you and biting even inch of exposed flesh. This little thing is a spawn of a demon.

Maybe it has something to do with your scent?

941 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:02:21pm

re: #935 Walter L. Newton

Good movie. One of the early uses of "steadycam" cameras, those POV shots with the wolf running through the streets of the Bronx and New York.

stay on the road... stay off the moors.

942 ShaunP  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:02:43pm

So I rented the remake of "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" before I read any of the reviews. Then I read the reviews. Should I waste my time watching it?

943 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:02:49pm

re: #935 Walter L. Newton

Good movie. One of the early uses of "steadycam" cameras, those POV shots with the wolf running through the streets of the Bronx and New York.

Whoops, I'm wrong, by about 6 years...

944 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:02:56pm

re: #936 austin_blue

Thank you very much.

945 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:02:58pm

Getting back to the other topic... the fact that there is a definite neo-nazi connection to this the Az law, someone posted this article in the thread downstairs.

[Link: www.usatoday.com...]

946 Querent  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:02:58pm

re: #940 Naso Tang

Maybe it has something to do with your scent?

maybe it smells all the red meat we've been flinging around in here for the last hour?

947 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:03:05pm

re: #919 ryannon

And now for something really different, as well as being a very subtle political statement: Can anyone recommend a shop for men's classic pleated chino shorts? This is the general idea, but cuffed would be ideal.

Thanks for your recommendations!

*ahem*

Do they have to be pleated? Because if you have any choice in the matter, avoiding pleated would be rec #1...

948 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:04:19pm

re: #928 reloadingisnotahobby

It's obvious you didn't have bacon around your neck!Right?

In retrospect, it wasn't the smartest move. I'm sure i could take a coyote, but the only coyote willing to return the favor probably has a condition that will require me to receive a series of extremely painful shots in my abdomen...

949 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:04:48pm

re: #947 Aceofwhat?

*ahem*

Do they have to be pleated? Because if you have any choice in the matter, avoiding pleated would be rec #1...

+1
Pleated short make me looklike I'm wearing "Depend"!
Not that I have worn de...never mind!

950 tradewind  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:04:55pm

re: #919 ryannon
Try Orvis, Cabela, Vineyard Vines, On The Fly (SFO) and Brooks Br.

951 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:05:10pm

re: #937 Floral Giraffe

Did you get the day off?

I'm only part time. The schedule changes a bit week to week, but mainly any afternoon/evening Thurs/Sun seems to be the norm so far. But I also had a few training days during the first month, and I covered two overnights, and came in early a few times to cover other people, so, I'm really not sure of an exact schedule, if there is really one to start with.

I suspect my schedule is what ever is on the sheet week to week.

952 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:05:50pm

re: #922 Obdicut

Pleated pants are an abomination before Gunther.

The only valid reason to wear them is if you have a ginormous wang.

gmta...and kudos on your taste, mon copain...

953 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:05:53pm

re: #939 webevintage

JC Penny's...it's where your mom and dad shop.
;-)

They have excellent stuff at better prices. Don't be afraid people.

954 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:06:03pm

re: #946 Querent

maybe it smells all the red meat we've been flinging around in here for the last hour?

I once had this cat that would go apeshit and try to rip the bag from my hands if I came home with shrimps...

955 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:06:53pm

re: #946 Querent

maybe it smells all the red meat we've been flinging around in here for the last hour?

What do you mean by that?

956 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:08:11pm

re: #955 Walter L. Newton

What do you mean by that?

You know. Play with the kitteh.

957 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:09:47pm

re: #954 brookly red

I once had this cat that would go apeshit and try to rip the bag from my hands if I came home with shrimps...

My mother once had one that would sneak under the sofa and try to draw blood from my ankles whenever I visited.

Regardless, until we had to adopt my daughter's illegitimate (so to speak) Jack Russel, I thought of myself as a cat person.

958 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:10:20pm

re: #906 Bagua

It is news to me that these two are considered deniers, I thought they were on your side. I'm not taking sides with any deniers.

OK let's say that is fair and I give you the benefit of the doubt.

It doesn't matter. Your boy told an obvious and clumsy lie that was immediately disproved. Why was there any discussion beyond that from you?

959 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:11:46pm

re: #919 ryannon

And now for something really different, as well as being a very subtle political statement: Can anyone recommend a shop for men's classic pleated chino shorts? This is the general idea, but cuffed would be ideal.

Thanks for your recommendations!

I love banana republic chino when i'm feeling elitist...it just gets softer with time. here's a classic pair, and they're not pleated - i simply lack the fortitude to recommend pleated shorts.
[Link: bananarepublic.gap.com...]

And if you don't own a good pair of linen shorts, here's a recommendation. Linen is a fabric that most men underutilize.

[Link: bananarepublic.gap.com...]

960 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:12:03pm

re: #938 HoosierHoops

I have never attacked you or any view you have ever posted here...I was hoping to bring some civility to the conversation.. Epic Fail...But don't worry...Walter downdinged me...Not to worry..I'm not one of his newbee bitches he can pick fights with with his baiting crap...You feeling me Walter?

Ease up friend, it's just a downding.
If I had a dollar for every downding I could buy a nice outboard motor.

961 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:12:18pm

re: #955 Walter L. Newton

What do you mean by that?

Ah, smell meat do you? :=)

962 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:12:34pm

re: #957 Naso Tang

Had a cat reach from a perch on a 'Cat Tree".snagged my ear lobe!
Thought I'd have to phone the ER to let them know I'd need a couple or three unit of A+ !!

963 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:12:42pm

re: #945 LudwigVanQuixote

Getting back to the other topic... the fact that there is a definite neo-nazi connection to this the Az law, someone posted this article in the thread downstairs.

[Link: www.usatoday.com...]

Rep. Russell Pearce - his Wiki shows a long history of apparent questionable positions...

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

964 brookly red  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:12:54pm

re: #948 Aceofwhat?

In retrospect, it wasn't the smartest move. I'm sure i could take a coyote, but the only coyote willing to return the favor probably has a condition that will require me to receive a series of extremely painful shots in my abdomen...

ehhh, you can get that right here... no biggie.

965 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:13:50pm

re: #869 austin_blue

Reine;

Gaah. Awful. These things always are. I used to work for ExLog, and we lost five at Piper Alpha, two of whom I knew well.

Did it come in on them when they were perforating the production casing?

Nothing is known yet, beyond the info in the link I posted earlier.

966 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:14:15pm

re: #963 Walter L. Newton

Rep. Russell Pearce - his Wiki shows a long history of apparent questionable positions...

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

He's a Mormon too!.

967 Decatur Deb  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:14:52pm

Here's a politician who has figured out all those "ID the illegals" problems--microchip 'em.

[Link: iowaindependent.com...]

968 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:15:37pm

re: #880 Stanley Sea

They are amazing when you can see them. They are very sly, so you rarely do. City life vs. rural.

caveat - I have no pets, therefore I am intrigued.

I see coyotes pretty much every day I'm on the road (3-4 times a week) in the summer. Very seldom do I see more than one at a time. I think the biggest pack I've seen consisted of 4 members.

A few years back we had a massive increase in gopher numbers, now we see an increase in everything from eagles, hawks and falcons to foxes and coyotes.

969 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:15:56pm

re: #967 Decatur Deb

Here's a politician who has figured out all those "ID the illegals" problems--microchip 'em.

[Link: iowaindependent.com...]

in their no-no happy place?

970 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:16:10pm

re: #881 Walter L. Newton

How do you get a 9 week old kitten from climbing up all over you and biting even inch of exposed flesh. This little thing is a spawn of a demon.

A slow cooker.

971 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:16:27pm

re: #967 Decatur Deb

Here's a politician who has figured out all those "ID the illegals" problems--microchip 'em.

[Link: iowaindependent.com...]

I never truly realised what a rich gift to comedy state GOP lawmakers could be.

972 allegro  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:17:24pm

re: #968 b_sharp

I see coyotes pretty much every day I'm on the road (3-4 times a week) in the summer. Very seldom do I see more than one at a time. I think the biggest pack I've seen consisted of 4 members.

Unlike wolves, coyotes are not pack animals. Very solitary animals. They rarely travel or hunt together, only doing so when there's a lack of small/game food and they need to go for bigger game and need to cooperate with each other.

973 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:17:37pm

re: #971 Renaissance_Man

I never truly realised what a rich gift to comedy state GOP lawmakers could be.

Read much NY State news...?

974 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:17:41pm

re: #925 Aceofwhat?

they're all over the florida suburbs. crafty little devils. i tried to approach one on foot about a month ago, but apparently my 160lb frame was as imposing and awe-inspiring as i suspected/

We had the police walking the streets, in a beach suburb yet, three days ago, and signs put up saying "Coyote Keep Pets Indoors". This is where one has to cross bridges to get to.

Frankly I doubt it, but somebody said a cat was missing and they saw a skinny dog running down the street.

975 reine.de.tout  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:17:52pm

re: #881 Walter L. Newton

How do you get a 9 week old kitten from climbing up all over you and biting even inch of exposed flesh. This little thing is a spawn of a demon.

Get the kitten a chew toy.
You don't have to buy one - an old sock stuffed with an old t-shirt would do - make sure it's not so big that the kitten can't sink its teeth into it.

The kitten is probably teething. At any rate, it needs to learn what is acceptable to bite and what isn't. and your skin is on the "isn't" list.

976 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:18:17pm

re: #970 b_sharp

A slow cooker.

And after he spends an hour trying to shred anything with in his reach, then he passes out on my lap... I mean narcoleptic like... you couln't wake him if it was the end of the world.

977 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:19:03pm

re: #959 Aceofwhat?

Linen is the BEST! Everyone under utilizes linen.

978 allegro  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:19:31pm

re: #974 Naso Tang

Frankly I doubt it, but somebody said a cat was missing and they saw a skinny dog running down the street.

Pets are easy prey for coyotes. They have no experience being hunted and coyotes know it. They snatch them up before the prey even knows what hit.

979 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:20:46pm

re: #974 Naso Tang

We had the police walking the streets, in a beach suburb yet, three days ago, and signs put up saying "Coyote Keep Pets Indoors". This is where one has to cross bridges to get to.

Frankly I doubt it, but somebody said a cat was missing and they saw a skinny dog running down the street.

I believe it. They're the ultimate survivalists.

Which also means that, unless there's a rabies scare, not all pets need to stay indoors. They're smart enough not to mess with a dog their size or larger.

Our chihuahua, on the other hand, is never off of her leash. Between the hawks, owls, and coyotes (typical florida suburb!) she wouldn't last 5 minutes without us.

980 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:21:26pm

re: #960 Spare O'Lake

Ease up friend, it's just a downding.
If I had a dollar for every downding I could buy a nice outboard motor.

LOL
I know...I have a trillion updings in my Goldman Saks account..But very few downdings available...
Kind of like the first time I faced a 6'4" point guard in College and he walked up to me at the circle squeezed my arm and laughed and walked away...
I can't help it..It's on now m*therf*cker....Generally I'm a very civil man...But a downding to the Hoopster is like squeezing my ego and walking away laughing...LOL
No problem Bro....

981 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:22:00pm

em>re: #968 b_sharp

I see coyotes pretty much every day I'm on the road (3-4 times a week) in the summer. Very seldom do I see more than one at a time. I think the biggest pack I've seen consisted of 4 members.

A few years back we had a massive increase in gopher numbers, now we see an increase in everything from eagles, hawks and falcons to foxes and coyotes.

OK, I'll spill. We had a group (3) coyote's kill a cat in our yard. We live in a pretty rural area of a city. Heard noises - probably about 1 am. Went out with camera (no flash) got lots of gruesome photos. What can I say? I should have been a zoologist. I hate it when I see the many missing cat signs around. I know there is pretty much no hope.

982 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:22:08pm

re: #980 HoosierHoops

LOL
I know...I have a trillion updings in my Goldman Saks account..But very few downdings available...
Kind of like the first time I faced a 6'4" point guard in College and he walked up to me at the circle squeezed my arm and laughed and walked away...
I can't help it..It's on now m*therf*cker...Generally I'm a very civil man...But a downding to the Hoopster is like squeezing my ego and walking away laughing...LOL
No problem Bro...

You still laughing?

983 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:23:10pm

re: #977 Floral Giraffe

Linen is the BEST! Everyone under utilizes linen.

my linen pants, however, are for expert dressing only...they're not messing around;)

984 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:23:37pm

re: #979 Aceofwhat?


Our chihuahua, on the other hand, is never off of her leash. Between the hawks, owls, and coyotes (typical florida suburb!) she wouldn't last 5 minutes without us.

I always worry about the kittahs when they are little.
Evil hawks.
Not that I have had a kitten scooped up by a hawk yet....

hahahahahaha
Ok, it is funny hearing Levin and Claire McCaskill say shitty over and over again at the GS hearings today.

985 austin_blue  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:23:40pm

re: #944 Obdicut

Thank you very much.

You are very welcome!

986 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:24:06pm

I'll be in and out... I'm going to my work bench and cut and polish some turquoise.

987 austin_blue  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:24:09pm

re: #985 austin_blue

You are very welcome!

Ooh! New thread! Shiny!

988 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:24:33pm

re: #938 HoosierHoops

I have never attacked you or any view you have ever posted here...I was hoping to bring some civility to the conversation.. Epic Fail...But don't worry...Walter downdinged me...Not to worry..I'm not one of his newbee bitches he can pick fights with with his baiting crap...You feeling me Walter?

Just had to smile at this post.

989 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:24:51pm

re: #981 Stanley Sea

Coyote lunch, is what all those "missing cats" signs mean!

990 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:26:16pm

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not totally sure the Larouche crowd is far left. I've never been sure what they are at all, and I mean that in species and genus type way.

Bob Dole needs company - Larouche won't stop with the knock knock jokes.....

991 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:26:31pm

re: #989 Floral Giraffe

Coyote lunch, is what all those "missing cats" signs mean!

It is so sad, because people have hope. I'm like, uh.....

992 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:26:37pm

Speaking of this stuff I really pissed off the crazies

For those who doubt the nazi connection and the racial tone, I present the following fun little video.

Unedited Tea Party Protestor in Cleveland, Ohio.

Teabagger Express-Buses Full Racist Morons

Please remember that a core early Nazi meme was the notion of elites with untrue loyalties "stealing" Germany from the people.

That the Nazis were racist ought not need to be explained.

Please remember the message of the Nazis about creating a mythical Germany that never existed - and that this was the "stolen birthright" of the German people.

They were going to take it all back and purge the enemies from within and without. Take back America! Militias on the borders!

All of those soft and elitist intellectuals would have their corrupting books burned. Evolution anyone? Anti-science anyone?

We are seeing an American version of this that starts by venting that rage at minorities and other easy targets. Rather than Teutonic mythos we have a perverted form of Christianity. Rather than umpah bands we have cowboys. But don't kid yourself about it being the same thing.

The only real saving grace is that the typical teabagger is a fat and repulsive slob as opposed to young and physically capable SA types.

993 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:26:59pm

re: #919 ryannon

And now for something really different, as well as being a very subtle political statement: Can anyone recommend a shop for men's classic pleated chino shorts? This is the general idea, but cuffed would be ideal.

Thanks for your recommendations!

There is a reason that adults wear big boy pants.

994 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:28:05pm

re: #948 Aceofwhat?

In retrospect, it wasn't the smartest move. I'm sure i could take a coyote, but the only coyote willing to return the favor probably has a condition that will require me to receive a series of extremely painful shots in my abdomen...

In what context could you take a coyote?

I've been around Shepherds most of my life, I'm 6', 220lbs and semi-quasi intelligent. I know I couldn't take a coyote.

995 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:28:16pm

"Shitty Deal" was even a trend on Twitter today:
[Link: twitter.com...]

#shittydeal

996 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:28:33pm

re: #984 webevintage


hahahahahaha
Ok, it is funny hearing Levin and Claire McCaskill say shitty over and over again at the GS hearings today.

heh - you saw that too?

i admit - i was surprised at how clumsy the GS folks were. you put me up there with some numbskull questioning me about my managerial decisions? i'll eat them for lunch. i know my stuff up, down, left and right.

made me think the GS folks did indeed have something to hide, which surprised me...they didn't get where they were by misunderstanding how these financial instruments work, so there can't be many good reasons for their obfuscation.

997 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:29:09pm

re: #971 Renaissance_Man

I never truly realised what a rich gift to comedy state GOP lawmakers could be.

Microchip them - well I suppose that is more up to date than a yellow star.

Which part of these guys are Nazis is missing?

998 Digital Display  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:29:25pm

re: #982 Walter L. Newton

You still laughing?

Not about you old man...Keep downdinging me Walter...You are going to regret this..I don't call out childish names or pick on Newbees for shit and giggles...When it's time to cut the soul...I will do it...
Stop down dinging me Walter....

999 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:30:16pm

re: #998 HoosierHoops

Not about you old man...Keep downdinging me Walter...You are going to regret this..I don't call out childish names or pick on Newbees for shit and giggles...When it's time to cut the soul...I will do it...
Stop down dinging me Walter...

He's baiting you and hopefully you are just mocking him.

1000 ryannon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:30:33pm

re: #959 Aceofwhat?

I love banana republic chino when i'm feeling elitist...it just gets softer with time. here's a classic pair, and they're not pleated - i simply lack the fortitude to recommend pleated shorts.
[Link: bananarepublic.gap.com...]

And if you don't own a good pair of linen shorts, here's a recommendation. Linen is a fabric that most men underutilize.

[Link: bananarepublic.gap.com...]

Thank you for the links - I especially like linen in sports jackets. But what does everyone have against pleats?

1001 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:30:44pm

re: #983 Aceofwhat?

my linen pants, however, are for expert dressing only...they're not messing around;)

LOL! You can do linen pants 2 ways, either pressed or "hippie chic"!

1002 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:30:58pm

re: #992 LudwigVanQuixote


We are seeing an American version of this that starts by venting that rage at minorities and other easy targets. Rather than Teutonic mythos we have a perverted form of Christianity. Rather than umpah bands we have cowboys. But don't kid yourself about it being the same thing.

The only real saving grace is that the typical teabagger is a fat and repulsive slob as opposed to young and physically capable SA types.

No, that's a minor saving grace. I submit that the real saving grace are the millions of people like DF, Reine and me who stand firmly opposed to this or any other form of hatred.

1003 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:31:13pm

re: #1000 ryannon

Thank you for the links - I especially like linen in sports jackets. But what does everyone have against pleats?

Keeping them pleated.

1004 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:33:20pm

re: #1000 ryannon

They make my butt look big!

1005 ryannon  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:36:25pm

re: #993 Alouette

There is a reason that adults wear big boy pants.

I wish we still had revolving titles.... :-)

1006 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:37:31pm

re: #976 Walter L. Newton

And after he spends an hour trying to shred anything with in his reach, then he passes out on my lap... I mean narcoleptic like... you couln't wake him if it was the end of the world.

I have a small, almost neotenic, 14 year old black cat who used to go bonkers and attack me full on every time I paid attention to my grandson. When he wasn't around she was the most affectionate cat I've ever known. Now that she's older and my grandson is a young man, she's calm and affectionate. So affectionate I can't pry her off of my lap.

Excuse me,
GET OFF!

1007 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:39:00pm

re: #998 HoosierHoops

Not about you old man...Keep downdinging me Walter...You are going to regret this..I don't call out childish names or pick on Newbees for shit and giggles...When it's time to cut the soul...I will do it...
Stop down dinging me Walter...

Usually this is not an issue with "old timers", if I can use that expression, but if I may restate my philosophy it is that if I have had any involvement in a discussion, so to speak, I do not downding. I will state my mind instead.

I upding either as a compliment or simply as an acknowledgment of a comment that doesn't really warrant a reply, but I try to only downding if something is so dumbass it warrants nothing else.

If I have been fallible, so be it.

1008 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:39:44pm

re: #994 b_sharp

In what context could you take a coyote?

I've been around Shepherds most of my life, I'm 6', 220lbs and semi-quasi intelligent. I know I couldn't take a coyote.

i've had to intervene twice with dogs, once with a friend and once for my daughter when she was younger. it takes a lot of adrenaline, for sure, and in neither case was the dog going for my throat (or larger than a small lab):

*distract and slow the animal down with a kick
*offer your arm for them to bite
*as you pull your arm away, grab their nape with your other hand and lift them off the ground
*rotate the animal in the air and use the second hand to grab a bunch of skin about halfway down the spine
*slam into the ground repeatedly with blind rage (in the case of my daughter being threatened) until the animal is making sounds you'd normally only hear on the Serengetti

it's not a happy memory, now that i go back over it...

1009 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:40:01pm

re: #976 Walter L. Newton

Find a toy he likes better than your earlobe.
Ball of foil with a string maybe.

1010 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:41:01pm

re: #1001 Floral Giraffe

LOL! You can do linen pants 2 ways, either pressed or "hippie chic"!

i do pressed but flat-front..it's a better look than a crease, but still work-friendly!

not for the amateur, that tactic!

1011 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:41:20pm

re: #973 Aceofwhat?

Read much NY State news...?

Actually I am only passingly familiar with state lawmakers in general, and the only truly sad/pathetic/funny/stupid ones I hear tend to be the ones brought up here, such as the Georgia ButtChip bill, Arizona's Papers Please bill, Oklahoma's Government Control of Healthcare bill and the like. Clearly I will have to research this rich vein of comedy further.

1012 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:43:02pm

re: #1000 ryannon

Thank you for the links - I especially like linen in sports jackets. But what does everyone have against pleats?

it's an unflattering look. bad lines. think 'mom pants' for dudes...

1013 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:44:32pm

re: #1011 Renaissance_Man

Actually I am only passingly familiar with state lawmakers in general, and the only truly sad/pathetic/funny/stupid ones I hear tend to be the ones brought up here, such as the Georgia ButtChip bill, Arizona's Papers Please bill, Oklahoma's Government Control of Healthcare bill and the like. Clearly I will have to research this rich vein of comedy further.

lawhawk is your reference on this subject. lost of posts of his to search on this topic when you're feeling frisky, and he writes very well.

1014 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:45:27pm

re: #993 Alouette

There is a reason that adults wear big boy pants.

Rotating title nominee!
(Ryan we still have them. Top right corner..)

1015 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:47:36pm

re: #1010 Aceofwhat?

Best pants I EVER had were 50% silk, 50% very fine linen.
Perfect for the 105 degree LA Valley summers.

1016 webevintage  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:47:53pm

re: #971 Renaissance_Man

I never truly realised what a rich gift to comedy state GOP lawmakers could be.

A goldmine.

Just in the last week Arizona has given us the gal letting us know that we can still pay our Doctors with live chickens if we want.
"Cocks For Docs"
hahahahahahahaha

1017 Decatur Deb  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:48:09pm

re: #1008 Aceofwhat?

Most people won't get past that "offer your arm" thing.

1018 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:48:23pm

re: #1015 Floral Giraffe

Best pants I EVER had were 50% silk, 50% very fine linen.
Perfect for the 105 degree LA Valley summers.

Sounds just dandy to me.

1019 CuriousLurker  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:53:58pm

re: #742 Alouette

Typepad does not support 301 redirects. Even if they did, the 301 redirects everyone who comes to the page. How do you selectively redirect based on HTTP_REFERRER?

Sorry for disappearing on you—had to take care of a client problem.

You could put the following in an .htacess file in the root of your site, assuming that Typepad allows you to do that.

Part 1 - First (line 1), turn on RewriteEngine. Next (line 2) set the base path for the rules to your site's public web root:

RewriteEngine On
RewriteBase /

If you get a message about an internal server error, use the following instead:

Options +FollowSymlinks
RewriteEngine On
RewriteBase /

Part 2 - First (line 1), define the rewrite condition to look for, in this case it's the HTTP_REFERER evildomain.com (the \ is needed to escape the dot in the domain name). Next (line 2), set the rewrite rule to Forbidden (403). Finally (line 3), instead of displaying the default 403 error page, set it to [Link: adl.org...] which will automatically redirect anyone coming form evildomain.com to the ADL site:

RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} evildomain\.com [NC]
RewriteRule .* - [F]
ErrorDocument 403 [Link: adl.org...]

So your final .htaccess file would either look like this:

RewriteEngine On
RewriteBase /

RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} evildomain\.com [NC]
RewriteRule .* - [F]
ErrorDocument 403 [Link: adl.org...]

Or this, if you have to use the Symlinks option:

Options +FollowSymlinks
RewriteEngine On
RewriteBase /

RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} evildomain\.com [NC]
RewriteRule .* - [F]
ErrorDocument 403 [Link: adl.org...]

You can find a more detailed explanation of everything on this page.

Hope that made sense.

1020 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:54:00pm

re: #1017 Decatur Deb

Most people won't get past that "offer your arm" thing.

defending my kid, i half expected to be sacrificing some forearm in order to grab the nape (once you have a medium-sized or smaller dog by the back of the neck, it's game over, human wins...that was my only goal). adrenaline is a weird thing.

i managed to get the right arm out of the way in time and snag the nape with my left hand.

when i subsequently defended a friend, i went with the same plan and it worked the same way.

1021 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:54:19pm

re: #1008 Aceofwhat?

i've had to intervene twice with dogs, once with a friend and once for my daughter when she was younger. it takes a lot of adrenaline, for sure, and in neither case was the dog going for my throat (or larger than a small lab):

*distract and slow the animal down with a kick
*offer your arm for them to bite
*as you pull your arm away, grab their nape with your other hand and lift them off the ground
*rotate the animal in the air and use the second hand to grab a bunch of skin about halfway down the spine
*slam into the ground repeatedly with blind rage (in the case of my daughter being threatened) until the animal is making sounds you'd normally only hear on the Serengetti

it's not a happy memory, now that i go back over it...

I've lost it with animals too. They are not good memories, one in particular still haunts me.

I've had to intervene a number of times, both between people and dogs and between dogs and dogs, but none of those dogs were going after me. I'm not sure you appreciate how fast a dog can be, let alone an animal with absolutely no respect for humans and therefore no controls.

I've gone up to guard dogs that I've never seen before and within 5 minutes I was scratching their backs. My mother made sure I was comfortable with large dogs and knew their body language.

Coyotes, even though they weigh about half that of a decent sized Shepherd, scare me.

1022 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:57:12pm

re: #1021 b_sharp

I've lost it with animals too. They are not good memories, one in particular still haunts me.

I've had to intervene a number of times, both between people and dogs and between dogs and dogs, but none of those dogs were going after me. I'm not sure you appreciate how fast a dog can be, let alone an animal with absolutely no respect for humans and therefore no controls.

I've gone up to guard dogs that I've never seen before and within 5 minutes I was scratching their backs. My mother made sure I was comfortable with large dogs and knew their body language.

Coyotes, even though they weigh about half that of a decent sized Shepherd, scare me.

you're 100% right...they're incredibly fast and i have no desire to test them, to be honest. i knew it would run away and just wanted to see how close it would let me get.

50' is the answer...

1023 Decatur Deb  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:58:01pm

re: #1021 b_sharp

I've lost it with animals too. They are not good memories, one in particular still haunts me.

I've had to intervene a number of times, both between people and dogs and between dogs and dogs, but none of those dogs were going after me. I'm not sure you appreciate how fast a dog can be, let alone an animal with absolutely no respect for humans and therefore no controls.

I've gone up to guard dogs that I've never seen before and within 5 minutes I was scratching their backs. My mother made sure I was comfortable with large dogs and knew their body language.

Coyotes, even though they weigh about half that of a decent sized Shepherd, scare me.

My (adult) daughter sees them often on long runs. They probably could tear her up, but seem very shy. She carries dog mace, but hasn't had to use it. I'd suspect rabies if one got aggressive.

1024 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 5:59:24pm

re: #1020 Aceofwhat?

defending my kid, i half expected to be sacrificing some forearm in order to grab the nape (once you have a medium-sized or smaller dog by the back of the neck, it's game over, human wins...that was my only goal). adrenaline is a weird thing.

i managed to get the right arm out of the way in time and snag the nape with my left hand.

when i subsequently defended a friend, i went with the same plan and it worked the same way.

That adrenal boost is a huge help, especially when coupled with clear thought and a plan.

BTW, I have had to kick a dog out of mid air with a crescent kick. It wasn't a large dog, or I might be missing a leg.

1025 Decatur Deb  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:00:22pm

Speaking of dogs, BBL.

1026 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:01:43pm

re: #1022 Aceofwhat?

you're 100% right...they're incredibly fast and i have no desire to test them, to be honest. i knew it would run away and just wanted to see how close it would let me get.

50' is the answer...

The bravest I've gotten is lowering the window of my car when I was within about 20'. The damn things around here are not afraid of cars.

1027 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:02:21pm

re: #1023 Decatur Deb

My (adult) daughter sees them often on long runs. They probably could tear her up, but seem very shy. She carries dog mace, but hasn't had to use it. I'd suspect rabies if one got aggressive.

Smart girl.

1028 Aceofwhat?  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:05:06pm

re: #1024 b_sharp

That adrenal boost is a huge help, especially when coupled with clear thought and a plan.

BTW, I have had to kick a dog out of mid air with a crescent kick. It wasn't a large dog, or I might be missing a leg.

heh. it's amazing how much of a difference 30lbs can make. what worked on a 30lb (ish) dog might have been much nastier with a 60lb dog...for either of us...

1029 CuriousLurker  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:09:06pm

re: #1019 CuriousLurker

Um, I just realized that the backslashes didn't show up in my post.

In the lines that say:

RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} evildomain.com [NC]

There's supposed to be a backslash between evildomain and .com as indicated in the web page I linked to.

1030 Cato the Elder  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:15:46pm

Did someone say "petrified brain"?

1031 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:16:30pm

re: #1017 Decatur Deb

Most people won't get past that "offer your arm" thing.

Punch them in the snout if they attack.

1032 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:25:35pm

re: #1031 prairiefire

Punch them in the snout if they attack.

Says the one armed woman.

1033 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:36:53pm

re: #1032 b_sharp

Says the one armed woman.

Heh, I had a step-father who always had 4-6 hunting dogs in kennels behind our house. That was his method for breaking up dog fights.

1034 TheQuis  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 6:41:13pm

re: #238 jamesfirecat

No way, no how will Obama change VPs come his next election unless Biden dies. I'm pretty sure one guy did that once and he got nailed for it. Did George Bush Sr. not run with Dan Quayle in 1992 even though he was dumb as a box of hammers, couldn't spell "potatoe" and got in a feud with a TV character?

Let me put it for you this way, if Bush could have run for a third term, would he have picked someone besides Dick Cheney as a running mate?

Two Words:

Tim Kaine

1035 steve_davis  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:00:50pm

re: #76 darthstar

But this is a 'center-right' country, with Palin on the left side of that scale and Bachmann on the right...or so the story goes.
/
Oh, and I can't stand mayo...support Obama, but hate that white jizz on my burger.

Updinging for excellent use of the objective correlative. "I should have been a pair of ragged burgers, scuttling between two special-sauce jizz-enhanced sesame buns."

1036 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:02:23pm

re: #716 Walter L. Newton

They are lies because you and Ludwig say so... big fucking deal, holds no note with me... you can't even figure out that Roger A. Pielke, Jr. is a scientist.

All of his graduate work appears to be in Poli Sci.

1037 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:13:21pm

re: #865 brookly red

I have never actually seen a rattle snake, living where I do... I have heard that they taste like eels...

I don't know what an eel tastes like--but rattlers sound beautiful and scary. And look beautiful and scary.

1038 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:13:44pm

re: #866 tradewind

Yeah, so were cockroaches, but I don't have to defer to them.//

Show a little respect. The roaches will outlast us.

1039 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:17:41pm

re: #888 tradewind

Think really underweight shepherd/lab cross with wolf eyes and you're close.

Man came up to me once at the dog run when I was out with our shepherd/wolf mix, and asked "Is that there a cai-yote?" in a strong Texan accent. I explained the dog's background (as best I could, there was some guesswork involved). He did look a bit coyote-ish.

1040 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:20:35pm

re: #916 Walter L. Newton

I don't know... I know this much, I've know a good handful of people who bred wolf/domestic dog hybrids, and I wouldn't trust any of those animals. It seems you can't totally get rid of that natural wild tendency, and I've seen these things go psycho.

Probably the same with the coyote hybrids.

I've had great luck with wolf/dog mixes, but I've also heard tales of them being very hard to work with.

1041 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:25:06pm

re: #1000 ryannon

Thank you for the links - I especially like linen in sports jackets. But what does everyone have against pleats?

The kids at the school I teach at have to wear pleated uniform khakis. My father told the dean that making people wear pleated pants is a human rights violation.

1042 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:31:18pm

re: #1030 Cato the Elder

Did someone say "petrified brain"?

I trust you know this is on the same level as all other creationist BS, and well documented.

(That website was obviously created by a Neanderthal)

1043 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 7:49:55pm
1044 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 27, 2010 8:10:13pm

Bye now!

1045 Sacred Plants  Wed, Apr 28, 2010 7:30:15am

Even if the Aussie is being run at the nose ring by invisible aboriginal masters all the time, this does not affect its point:

There is change you can believe in, and beliefs you can change in. But there also is change you can´t believe in, and beliefs you can´t change in. Or more precisely, if you still try it is not a change anyone can believe in.

President Bush´s belief in freedom, however ambitious, was fundamentally corrupted by his superstition in surveillance programs, ultimately leading to the failure of his approach by exactly what he perceived to be its protection against just that. When Obama came in, he failed to make the clean break he had promised to his voters, and began to appease the surveillance mafia, a betrayal which again carries the paradox potential to poison all of his possible Presidential achievements.

Objectively, what Tim Blair is doing is warning America that as soon as the two parties have both made the same big mistake there is nothing that can stop a third party - whatever effort the so-called "intelligence" community puts into raping its most successful minds does only effect its quality of argument not its rise to power.


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